# Help with double bass speed



## notasian (May 28, 2014)

so im starting to appreciate fast double bass alot more recently now, before i kinda thought it was over the top but watching george kollias has really changed my mind. im starting to practice alot but im running into a lot of problems

1.my left foot feels retarted (heel down), like after 4 or 5 hits i start to loose feeling and control at about 150 bpm, i can get to about 190 bpm (in the sweet spot) but i cant got below that or my left foot starts spazzing out haha

2. in order to get sweet spot (heel up) i have to adjust how i sit, i have to move farther back and bounce for like 2 seconds until it gets going 

i have the cheapest sp double pedal but i dont really think its the problem (its fully adjustable) i know i will want to upgrade but not anytime soon. im really not looking at getting over 210

any help or tips are welcome!


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 28, 2014)

Cheap pedals are definitely a hindrance to consistent double bass playing IMO. A set of Iron Cobras can be had for under $150 on Guitar Center used all the time, and those are some solid, well-playing pedals  

Before worrying too much about double bass playing, try playing stuff that only requires one foot, but with your left foot only. This will make that leg/foot stronger and build up muscle memory so that playing fast becomes more accurate and less of the right foot going fast and the left foot spazzing out. 

Work on playing heel-up for sure. Once you get up to faster tempos, start moving your foot further back towards the hinge of the pedal. You don't need as much power for each hit at faster speeds since the motion of the pedal will make up for some of it anyway. 

Practice to a metronome and slowly work up your endurance and accuracy. For example, playing 16ths at 150bpm for two minutes is a lot easier when you've been working on 16th as 200bpm for three minutes at a time.


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## Epyon6 (May 28, 2014)

I cant stress enough to start SLOW. Even the pros start slow even when their warming up. Double bass playing even any playing in general is exactly like lifting weights. Youre not going to go into the gym and start benching 300lbs after just coming in, your gonna start smaller and warm up then work your way back up. Start at moderate speeds 120 bpm playing quarter notes, then do 8ths then 16ths. Even if you think you can practice faster dont, this is about building your strength and endurance, make sure your follow through on each stroke. You will feel it in your legs a lot. Play each of these about 1 min each. If you cant do them accurately through then decrease the time. If you can do them through and feel you can do more increase the time. Be patient, increasing muscle takes time. Dont push yourself past what youre able to do or else you wont make progress.
Then do Derek Roddys weak foot buster. This will help your speed, timing and accuracy.

Try floating heel its a hybrid between heel down and heel up, most players that play very fast play this way, it gives you power, balance and control. There are so many videos on youtube to help you try keywords like: double bass speed, double bass technique, double bass practice, ect.


Pedals play a huge factor in wanting to play fast. Im sorry to say but they are a mechanism and if you have a cheaper one the more friction and other obstacles come in to play making it harder to play fast. Basically:
Most pedals $50 - $200 brand new are pretty crappy.
Intermediate  Pearl eliminators, Iron cobras, Flying Dragons, dw 5000, dw 9000
Best  Axis, Trick, Czarcie Kopyto, demon drives, speed cobras


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## rectifryer (May 28, 2014)

I agree you need to play slow, but just like lifting weights, you need to play fast to train your central nervous system to move your muscles fast. That is where the actual process of getting faster occurs. Playing at slower speeds helps you play more consistently. Doing both is where it's at!


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## toothbrush (May 29, 2014)

rectifryer said:


> I agree you need to play slow, but just like lifting weights, you need to play fast to train your central nervous system to move your muscles fast. That is where the actual process of getting faster occurs. Playing at slower speeds helps you play more consistently. Doing both is where it's at!





Well said. A combo of both slow, consistent playing and working into higher speeds is how *full* development occurs. It's tough though. Takes time!


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## Epyon6 (May 29, 2014)

rectifryer said:


> I agree you need to play slow, but just like lifting weights, you need to play fast to train your central nervous system to move your muscles fast. That is where the actual process of getting faster occurs. Playing at slower speeds helps you play more consistently. Doing both is where it's at!



I think you mean push yourself to the higher speeds, It's important to push yourself but don't get into it when your not ready and play it consistently. Then that'll develop sloppy technique cause you'll pay attention to the speed more then technique or accuracy. I just see so many people stomping on their pedals as fast as they can and they tire themselves out, develop shit technique and break their pedals even.


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## notasian (May 29, 2014)

been watching a crap ton of vids, im going to try playing evertyhing i normally do with my left foot in order to gain some dexterity, has any one tried small strap on weights to their feet? nothing heavy like small diving weights maybe 2 or 3 lbs.

any other tips on how to set them up? is your slave pedal looser than your other? do you use super tight spring tension? tune the bass drum tighter to get a better bounce?

also anyone know where i can try a direct drive pedal like trick, axis and i know gibralter has 2 direct drive models. gc never has any good pedals. im really drawn to the trick dominators


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 29, 2014)

notasian said:


> also anyone know where i can try a direct drive pedal like trick, axis and i know gibralter has 2 direct drive models. gc never has any good pedals. im really drawn to the trick dominators



My brother got a set of Trick Pro 1-V's off of GC used for like $400. I've owned Axis pedals and while they're great and all, they require an annoying amount of upkeep IME. Lots of small parts and screws, plus the stock beaters are kinda useless. I put a pair of Iron Cobra beaters on mine, which was a huge improvement. 

If you're set on direct drive, definitely try to find a set of Tricks. The Pro 1-V's are damn near indestructible, and I assume the Dominators will be at least pretty durable in addition to being great pedals. I don't think I could go back to regular spring pedals after using the Trick's compression springs. The Pearl Demon Drives are definitely worth looking into, especially since they're convertible between long board and short board/heel plate.


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## Haunted Cereal (Jun 1, 2014)

I agree with all of the above. When I was just starting drumming I grabbed a book called Stick Control which is basically just a ton of RLRRLLRLLRL excercises, but it definitely works if you actually put the time into it with a metronome. When I started doing double bass, I just went through all those excercises again, but with my feet. In just a couple months I was pretty goddamn fast and consistent. The book's pretty cheap and worth every penny if you use it.


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## notasian (Jun 16, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Lpnjfo9l4

this is the song i really want to learns its fairly easy i can play all of it but the part at 3:58 where he goes slow then doubles the speed its freaking awsome but i cant seem to get it to where i can get the bounce going on demand but with everyday practice i can tell im getting a little better


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## bvdrummer (Jun 23, 2014)

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> Before worrying too much about double bass playing, try playing stuff that only requires one foot, but with your left foot only. This will make that leg/foot stronger and build up muscle memory so that playing fast becomes more accurate and less of the right foot going fast and the left foot spazzing out.



This +1000. The reason your right foot is better is because it has had more practice.


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## OmegaSlayer (Jun 23, 2014)

Aww 
I misread...I read "help with dumbass speed".
That I could have helped, this one not, sorry


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## notasian (Jun 29, 2014)

i working with youtube mentronomes right now i start at 160 for 10 minutes then bump up to 170, then 180, but 190 is a huge workout haha i can feel the burn in my left foot.


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## Benraldo (Oct 14, 2014)

I started doing a practice routine a few weeks ago that consisted of playing heel down, single stroke 16th's at 60 bpm. Then with a practice pad I'll do the Mike Johnston 8-4-2, a paradiddle, and then single strokes in unison (think hammer blast). I'll do each of these for 5 minutes straight, sometimes 10 if I'm really feeling it. I try to focus on each note being in exactly the right place in the beat and that I'm not flamming my hands and feet. 

After three weeks of this my single stroke top speed has increased dramatically. Mainly due to the control I have over my limbs. Control is paramount. 

Also, I've been messing around with playing left handed, and also doing paradiddles between my hands and feet, switching sides. Like, left hand right foot, right hand left foot etc. I do these for five minutes each, all at 60 bpm. 

These exercises alone will help tremendously.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Oct 15, 2014)

some great advice /tips so far...


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## notasian (Oct 21, 2014)

just got some tama beater weights. much better now


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Oct 21, 2014)

Nothing really to add, everyone already nailed it.

It is like working out. The quality of your pedals will absolutely play a factor but no one can answer how tight or what kind of springs that will suit you best. You will have to test that out yourself.

Extreme metal drumming 101 is a really good DVD that can be memorized but in a nutshell you are already doing that somewhat.

Start at a BMP for 3 minutes, bump it up 10 BPM for another 3 minutes, ect. Until you can not do it anymore but do what the other guys said too. Do it with 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 notes and even paradiddles. Very useful and will build your strength.

Practice practice practice with a click !!!!!!! Do it as much as you can and in 6 months check back in and you will be a beast and will be playing that song blindfolded.

Edit: Do not forget to practice your other stuff too. Too much focus on one single thing can be hurtful.


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## notasian (Oct 22, 2014)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Edit: Do not forget to practice your other stuff too. Too much focus on one single thing can be hurtful.



 i only have my pedals and a practice pad.... i dont have a set right now i live in an apartment! the only set practice i get is on sunday for about an hour.

anyway i wish i could make a vid i got mine set up really good where i can blast just over 200 bpm, its hard to explain but the weights really helped me alot i can feel the extra weight being swung around and its easier to get the rebound  i have the beaters and the weights as far as possible it feels great!


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## yingmin (Oct 30, 2014)

notasian said:


> i only have my pedals and a practice pad


That's all you really need. You can still work out your hands, and things like Roddy's weak foot buster are good training for the whole body, because it helps with independence as well.


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## Alex Kenivel (Oct 30, 2014)

Its all in the butt muscles...


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