# Aluminum, glass and plywood (30", 6 strings, no frets)



## mister V (Mar 5, 2014)

Hi all!

Let me introduce you my prototype #3. You will find the description and some of my thoughts after all these images:


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## wat (Mar 5, 2014)

dood! clips


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## mister V (Mar 5, 2014)

_Next to Ibby for the size comparison:_




This is (was) the prototype #1:




And this - #2:





Specs are:
14 mm plywood body
aluminum neck (15 mm thick)
neck construction is bolt-on
glass fretboard (5 mm thick)
24 fret position marks and standard side dots - all are made on the aluminum and are visible through the glass
30,1" scale (tuned to Eb, one octave and a half step down from standard tuning)
Grover tuners 3+3
Gotoh hardtail bridge
EMG 81-7, no pots - "plug-n-play" system  , and a kill switch

The battery is attached with very strong double-sided tape. This tape holds the fretboard, it is super-strong, I tested it on scrap pieces of aluminum and plastic first.

The thickness of the neck with the body (after the 12th fret) is 14+15+5=34 mm. You can think that it is too thick, but the access to all 24 virtual frets is super-easy and the neck-to-body joint is not uncomfortable at all.

If you ever played oud, then you can imagine the clean sound of this prototype  It sounds very "arabic"/"eastern". The highgain sound is also unusual.

This is my first try to use glass, and it was a great idea - two previous prototypes with aluminum fretboards sounded much worse.

I will make a clip, but don't know how soon - I play through the tube amp and have no other equipment so I need to get a good camera for recording video with normal sound.


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## ElRay (Mar 5, 2014)

Nice. What grade aluminum did you use? How stiff is the neck?

and +1 for clips.

Ray


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## sehnomatic (Mar 5, 2014)

Looks rather interesting to play. How much does she weigh?


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## xwmucradiox (Mar 5, 2014)

I really like #2!

I would be concerned about risk of impact on the fretboard causing it to break, especially with only central support. But it looks pretty awesome. I assume there is no neck adjustment and you're just working with everything completely flat and the only adjustment is at the bridge. Do you have any problems with sustain changing in the upper half of the neck?


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## pondman (Mar 5, 2014)

Loving this stuff. 
Basic but brilliant


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## Doulton (Mar 5, 2014)

I love seeing people experiment with outside of the box ideas, especially when they work out. Congrats man, that thing is sweet! I second the notion of clips


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## jtm45 (Mar 6, 2014)

Gotta' give you major props for the creativity of this project! 
I know it's not actually that similar really but when i saw the first few pictures that whacky Atlansia frame guitar thing came to mind. This one *->->*












I love this company because they came up with some really innovative, outside the box design elements and cool ideas!
I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen they're stuff already with you being into the 'unusual' designs. This is another one of the more unusual designs they came up with. A fanned-fret 7-string this time!


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## patata (Mar 6, 2014)

Specs on #2 pretty please.
Looks VERY cool.


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## mister V (Mar 6, 2014)

ElRay said:


> Nice. What grade aluminum did you use? How stiff is the neck?
> 
> and +1 for clips.
> 
> Ray



I have edited the previous post and wrote about soundclip/vid before I saw your question. I will try to record something with my girfriend's camera and see if it has normal sound quality. Have to get the camera first 

Hmmm, I checked the website of the company, that makes these aluminum profiles, and there is no technical info - they just state that their aluminum profiles are "high class", and "for structural purposes".

Well, the neck is very stiff, and dead-straight - with really high string tension there is no visible bow at all. When I chose the profile for the neck, I tested various types of them. Clamped one end of the profile to the workbench, left 1 meter of it "in the air" and applied weight on the other end. So I have chosen the 15 mm thick (and 20 mm wide) profile that was almost unbendable. I have to sit with all mine 90 kg weight on the unsupported end of it to make it bend.

*Edit:* I found the right name of this aluminum, but it is in Russian. I googled for it's USA name, few sites say that it is *A1560*.


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## mister V (Mar 6, 2014)

sehnomatic said:


> Looks rather interesting to play. How much does she weigh?



Good question... I can tell you only that it is lighter than Ibby and lighter than B.C.Rich Gunslinger Retro (my second guitar). 

Plywood can not be called a super-light material, but it is only 14 mm thick. But the main weight is concentrated in the body (plywood) and in the headstock with it tuners, bolts and rods.

I didn't mentioned it above, but it suffers from the neck dive. Not very serious - if I hang the guitar by the upper "horn" end, the neck will not dive. The body will be a little bit lower than the neck. But if I try to lift the neck to the comfortable level while I sit, the neck tries to dive down (without the strap, I mean). So I have to hold the neck on the comfortable level with my left hand while playing in the sitting position. Need a good strap (I use a primitive cheap strap with Ibby, it does not do the job if to speak about neck diving).


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## mister V (Mar 6, 2014)

xwmucradiox said:


> I really like #2!
> 
> I would be concerned about risk of impact on the fretboard causing it to break, especially with only central support. But it looks pretty awesome. I assume there is no neck adjustment and you're just working with everything completely flat and the only adjustment is at the bridge. Do you have any problems with sustain changing in the upper half of the neck?



Having a glass fretboard implies that you will be very careful with such guitar 

Yes, no adjustments for the neck - as I said above, the neck under the strings tension is dead-straight. That is what you need when you have no frets. When the fretless neck is made of wood, there is a chance it will have a slight curve under the strings tension, so you need a possibility to adjust the neck curvature. But with right aluminum profile and glass you will not run into such problems.

Edit: forgot about the sustain. I don't think I can call that a problem - the sustain lightly decreases with moving up along the fretboard. On upper frets it is not worse than my Ibby have, for example. The most serious difference in sustain can be noticed when you hit the open string and then hit it fretted. I think such problem can be solved with using a glass nut (hehe) - because it will be the same material under the string while it is opened and while it is fretted.


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## mister V (Mar 6, 2014)

jtm45 said:


> Gotta' give you major props for the creativity of this project!
> I know it's not actually that similar really but when i saw the first few pictures that whacky Atlansia frame guitar thing came to mind. This one *->->*
> 
> I love this company because they came up with some really innovative, outside the box design elements and cool ideas!
> I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen they're stuff already with you being into the 'unusual' designs.



Thank you for these pics, I didn't know anything about Atlansia, will search more info about them 

It can be strange, but I didn't search any unusual-designed instruments before creating mine. I often do pen sketches here and there, when I have any interesting ideas pop up in my mind. And if I think something like "oh, and THAT can be really interesting" - I start planning a build. This is the way all three prototypes were born. The next one for this "line" (aluminum, fretlesness, glass) is already here, in my mind, I think I'll start the build soon.


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## mister V (Mar 6, 2014)

patata said:


> Specs on #2 pretty please.
> Looks VERY cool.



First I have to say that prototype #2 is "dead" - I butchered it to use the hardware and pickup for other purposes. But it has a serious problem with the body - a cavity with resin. I didn't see this hidden cavity when I was making the body. So after the body was finished, the resin burnt the finish and started to leak out. Sticky disaster.
Also it was a good test for how strong was the neck-to-body joint. The test was passed successfully. The joint turned out almost undestructible.

What were the specs:
Spruce body 28 mm thick (ultra-lightweight)
15 mm aluminum profile neck, bolt-on and glued in at the same time
6 mm thick aluminum fretboard
29,9" scale, if I am not mistaken
Planet waves locking auto-string-trimming tuners (very good find, I will use them in further projects)
Gotoh hardtail bridge
DiMarzio Drop Sonic
Volume, coil split, kill switch

Aluminum fretboard turned out not a really good idea. The sound was ok, but with very weak sustain that almost disappeared whith moving up along the fretboard. In prototype #3 the problem was solved by using glass.

The Drop Sonic turned out not so good too - but I don't think it is normal to use it for 30" and with an octave down tuning  That is the reason for having a 7 string EMG in this 6-stringed project. And it sounds awesome (to my taste of course).


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## Forrest_H (Mar 6, 2014)

That thing is absolutely wild my friend. Can you post some sound clips of it? I'm curious to see what effect a glass fretboard and aluminum neck would have on the tone. I'm sure it sounds killer!


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## rikomaru (Mar 7, 2014)

That thing looks soooooooooooooo badass. I don't know why it makes me want to play some industrial metal rockabilly, but I definitely know you just hit a sweet spot.


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## crg123 (Mar 7, 2014)

Awesome project man looks like you're having a lot of fun making these! A questions/suggestions for the next build:

- What's that red button do?

- I wonder if theres a way to install some light weight material that can be modeled over the aluminum neck structure so you can create a more comfortable back of the neck. Maybe you could use something like a rounded quarter trimmed aluminum rod ( something like this:http://www.manufacturer.com/aluminium-quarter-round-trim-products-p6546526), basically anything in this sort of shape: http://www.littlecedarloghomes.com/images/quarterround.jpg

- To help with the neck dive and make a more permanent maybe you could double some of that metal structure on the back and then infill with the same material you use for the neck. Still show the aluminum to show off the construction aesthetics but make it flush so the metal doesn't dig into your body.

- Maybe the infill material could be some sort of high-density foam like this



(not sure of the material type). Something lightweight and easy to carve. Or maybe it could be some sort of lightweight wood. Not really sure!

Just some ideas to bounce off you. I can't wait to see your next iteration, really neat DIY project.


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## Antiproduct (Mar 7, 2014)

Holy shit,this is some innovative stuff 
Do you have some clips? I really wish to know how they sound, I expect them to sound a bit brighter than normal guitars


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## penguin_316 (Mar 7, 2014)

The first guitar I ever built was a 7 string fret less with a glass fingerboard back in 2001. I actually used a glass company to make me a specific cut from a mirror, you could see yourself in the fretboard.

Word of warning though, mine had carbon fiber reinforcements ala Vigier guitars. I left it near a window during a MI winter one year and the neck moved cracking the glass throughout. It was a rock otherwise. I got the idea from a guy called Ned Evett...so it's not a new idea but it is the road less travelled for sure.

Weather is bad mmmmk.


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## tmo (Mar 9, 2014)

I would not use a non flexible material for neck construction, Wood and metal are flexible, so those would be my bets...


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## coffeeflush (Mar 9, 2014)

DUDEEEEEEEEE
I am in love with everyone of your builds, every aspect (except the EMG) speaks to me on a personal level.


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## coffeeflush (Mar 9, 2014)

Just a tip btw. Try a brass nut, it works amazingly well for increasing sustain on a fretless.


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## mister V (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm sorry for the lack of my replies, there are serious problems with internet connection stability and ss.org opens veeeery slowly.



Forrest_H said:


> That thing is absolutely wild my friend. Can you post some sound clips of it? I'm curious to see what effect a glass fretboard and aluminum neck would have on the tone. I'm sure it sounds killer!





Frostod said:


> Holy shit,this is some innovative stuff
> Do you have some clips? I really wish to know how they sound, I expect them to sound a bit brighter than normal guitars



My girlfriend brought her camera to my house so I will try to catch some sounds later. Not sure if it will work fine (I mean sound quality).

This guitar have no tone wood at all so it have a little bit sterile sound - I don't think that glass and aluminum can seriously change the tone, and all that is left are the strings and EMG. EMG is mounted right after the bridge for tightness and bite and I think it works out well. 

BTW I experimented with the pickup position in my 30" prototypes and my favourite position is right after the bridge - it suits super-low tunings perfectly. If you add and inch between the pickup and the bridge, you will definitely hear the difference, but I cannot say it is such a big difference. But if you add 2-3 inches you will hear how the tightness and bite are slipping away and the muddiness is stepping in. However all this stuff regarding the sound and the bridge pickup position is only my own point of view.


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## mister V (Mar 12, 2014)

crg123 said:


> Awesome project man looks like you're having a lot of fun making these! A questions/suggestions for the next build:
> 
> - What's that red button do?
> 
> Just some ideas to bounce off you. I can't wait to see your next iteration, really neat DIY project.



Thank you for all your tips!

The red button is a kill switch, I use it for the "stroboscope effect". For my comfort it is located right under the middle finger of my picking hand, so I can push it super-quick.

The next project already passed the stage of thinking about details and is on the stage of drawing the body design (singlecut of course... I am a totally singlecut-guy  ).


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## mister V (Mar 12, 2014)

penguin_316 said:


> The first guitar I ever built was a 7 string fret less with a glass fingerboard back in 2001. I actually used a glass company to make me a specific cut from a mirror, you could see yourself in the fretboard.
> 
> Word of warning though, mine had carbon fiber reinforcements ala Vigier guitars. I left it near a window during a MI winter one year and the neck moved cracking the glass throughout. It was a rock otherwise. I got the idea from a guy called Ned Evett...so it's not a new idea but it is the road less travelled for sure.
> 
> Weather is bad mmmmk.



I decided not to use a mirror because I wanted to see fret marks through the glass, and I like the look of aluminum under the glass.

I think your guitar had a "normal" wooden neck, right? 

The aluminum profile that I use is much more stable and strong than any wood, and the glass is mounted with special 0,5 mm thick tape that is flexible, so if the aluminum will move (don't know in what situation... maybe when I go out with this guitar in winter, from very warm room to the super-cold street) the tape will compensate any movement (of course I mean a micro-movement that can't be even noticed with an eye).


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## mister V (Mar 12, 2014)

tmo said:


> I would not use a non flexible material for neck construction, Wood and metal are flexible, so those would be my bets...



Sorry, I didn't catch your thought - why do you think a non-flexible material is a bad choice for neck? Do you mean that the tone suffers from a non-flexible neck that can't vibrate when the strings vibrate?



coffeeflush said:


> DUDEEEEEEEEE
> I am in love with everyone of your builds, every aspect (except the EMG) speaks to me on a personal level.



Thanks  In future builds I will try some passive pickups, that is for sure.



coffeeflush said:


> Just a tip btw. Try a brass nut, it works amazingly well for increasing sustain on a fretless.



Such nut will be on the next prototype, I thought about it. BTW it will be the evolution of this line of prtotypes so I guess you will like it


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## mister V (Mar 12, 2014)

I made a quick video, but the sound is bad, and I play roughly. I will try to make another video, with normal sound and normal playing, but not today.

...
_
Edit: I made the new video, a little bit better, the link is in the next post._


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## mister V (Mar 13, 2014)

I made another video.
Sorry for the sound quality - that is all that the camera can.

There are two guitar "tracks" - one is the original audio track from the video (75% to the right channel), and the second one I made using the camera's mic right in the front of my amp (75% to the left channel). Drums are made in the Guitar Pro, samples replaced with something from the sample banks that I have on my computer.


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## DJTanZen (Mar 15, 2014)

These are ....ing awesome dude


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## Señor Voorhees (Mar 15, 2014)

Not sure if I commented in this thread already, but I really like the idea of these things. Also, I'd love to hear a proper recording to get a better idea of what it actually sounds like. Gotta say though, fretless slides are appealing to me.


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## mister V (Mar 19, 2014)

For all of you who like this line of prototypes, the next one is on it's way - headless 4 string bass, aluminum and glass neck, spruce body. I have some troubles with money and can not get headless hardware (no problems with other parts), so I spent some time trying to create something that won't look too awful.

The final result is on the pictures - "tuners" will be located on the back of the body, in the recess under the place where the bridge (standard string-through) is located on the other side. Tuner works like the Strandberg's one - you rotate the outer part, and it pulls up the inner part with the string's ball sitting in it; the inner part does not rotate (I tried more simple construction in which the part with the string's ball rotated and found out that it is the straight way to string breaking). The headstock part will be made of 4 steel tubes, every tube will be mounted with 2 screws and will have a string-locking screw at the nut side. On the picture the headstock piece is made of aluminum - just to test the idea.





















BTW the thing on the picture can be played and sounds loud


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## Andromalia (Mar 19, 2014)

Fire McGuyver and get this guy instead.


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## in-pursuit (Mar 20, 2014)

dude I think you really need to let me pay you to make one of these for me!!!


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## mister V (Mar 21, 2014)

in-pursuit said:


> dude I think you really need to let me pay you to make one of these for me!!!



You should wait for the upcoming prototype #4 - it will be made with much better quality  All previous prototypes were made to test the materials and to figure out the main points of this "model line". And because I like building and can't leave my workbench empty, of course.


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## mister V (Mar 21, 2014)

Don't you mind, if I will post here the progress with my making of the headless hardware for the next build?

Here are the final look of the "headstock" units:





I can't belive how small they are - here is the guitar tuner next to them for the size comparison. And these units are for bass.

The middle unit is in the "right" position, as it will be on the bass. The mounting screw (the big one) and the string-holding screw both will be located on the back of the little steel plate on the end of the neck.

Also I have few ideas for the bridge, that differ from the previous one in my previous post with pics. But no pics yet, I am working with it  The central line is to use as less additional pieces as possible and to make it look not so poor and sloppy.

_Edit: here is one unit installed on my test-"neck":
_


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## 72xmulch (Mar 28, 2014)

mister V said:


> For all of you who like this line of prototypes, the next one is on it's way - headless 4 string bass, aluminum and glass neck, spruce body. I have some troubles with money and can not get headless hardware (no problems with other parts), so I spent some time trying to create something that won't look too awful.
> 
> The final result is on the pictures - "tuners" will be located on the back of the body, in the recess under the place where the bridge (standard string-through) is located on the other side. Tuner works like the Strandberg's one - you rotate the outer part, and it pulls up the inner part with the string's ball sitting in it; the inner part does not rotate (I tried more simple construction in which the part with the string's ball rotated and found out that it is the straight way to string breaking). The headstock part will be made of 4 steel tubes, every tube will be mounted with 2 screws and will have a string-locking screw at the nut side. On the picture the headstock piece is made of aluminum - just to test the idea.
> 
> ...


can you please explain the tuning device better for me? i like this idea better than my own. i feel that with individual bridge pieces up top you would be able to adjust height and intonation, while tuning from the back.. great!! heres my current design, but i havent figured out an easy way to make it adjust for intonation..


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## 72xmulch (Mar 28, 2014)

i suppose i could make a box with my own design tuners embeded into the back of the guitar and have the strings go through the body like yours..


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## Fretless (Mar 28, 2014)

There is so much want in my heart for like an 8 string version of this. I want more fretless instruments D:


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## mister V (Mar 29, 2014)

72xmulch said:


> can you please explain the tuning device better for me? i like this idea better than my own. i feel that with individual bridge pieces up top you would be able to adjust height and intonation, while tuning from the back.. great!! heres my current design, but i havent figured out an easy way to make it adjust for intonation..



The main point is that my "tuning device" is made specially for using with standard string-through bass bridge - that is why you don't see any saddles or any height and intonation adjusting things on the pictures. On the front side there will be mounted a Gotoh bass bridge (I already tested the whole system, but no pictures, sorry), and on the back instead of ferrules there will be a recess in a body with this tuning devices (1 inch recess in the 2 inches thick body, so the devices will be flush with the body's back).

My idea was to create something that can be used with massive bass bridge. I am looking forward for huge thick body and massive bridge to compensate the "headlessness" and the non-wooden neck.


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## mister V (Mar 29, 2014)

Here are the insides of the tuner


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## axiomIII (Sep 12, 2014)

​


mister V said:


> Thank you for all your tips!
> 
> The red button is a kill switch, I use it for the "stroboscope effect". For my comfort it is located right under the middle finger of my picking hand, so I can push it super-quick.
> 
> The next project already passed the stage of thinking about details and is on the stage of drawing the body design (singlecut of course... I am a totally singlecut-guy  ).



how do I get one? with my specs, and whats the cost? Im in the UK.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...mizations/279098-11-string-advice.html:shred:


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## Explorer (Sep 12, 2014)

So much win. How did I miss this topic before?


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