# Circle K / Kalium Strings I'm done...



## Patrickrussell2 (Feb 18, 2015)

I preface this understanding that there are many diehard fans on site of this company but my experience with them has been less than stellar. 

I ordered an 8 string set a month or so ago and experienced a low string that "buzzed" internally. If you've never had it imagine a fret buzz that can't be found (string also will be dead with no sustain) I messaged asking about it and skip said this is rare but happens sometimes due to their winding process. He sent me a replacement. This string worked. 

A couple weeks ago I placed another order and darned if that same low string didn't buzz. I sent him a message stating that this is obviously a bad string and needs to be replaced. I also suggested that this may not be as "rare" as he claimed. It's now been over a week without a response, I have emailed, sent a Facebook message and heard nothing.

I see no sense in paying $19 dollars for a set of strings that the company doesn't stand behind and in my experience currently have a 33% success rate. 

If they are working for you great. Me I would rather buy a bass string than skips strings. 

I need an alternative of a company that I can get a .009 to roughly .090 gauge 8 string set for drop E. Anyone have any recommendations?


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## cip 123 (Feb 18, 2015)

Are you sure your guitar is set up properly? just a thought since it's happened twice now. Just something to check before you close the door on Kalium as they do have a huge selection.

I believe most companies are starting to do larger gauges, I think D'addorio and Ernie Ball offer singles up to 86? if that works.

I've also heard Octave4plus are quite good though never used them myself.


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## sevenstringj (Feb 18, 2015)

Labella offers custom HRS strings up to 120.

If you have a locking bridge (Floyd, FX Edge III), the dead string is likely due to over-tightening.

Or, if you're unwinding some of the outer wrap to fit through the tuner, it's likely due to that.

If you're using something bigger than .070ish, make sure the nut slot is filed to accommodate.

If none of the above, bad luck I guess. They work for me, and Skip's always been responsive.


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## erdiablo666 (Feb 18, 2015)

Never had an issue with Skip, or Kalium. Great strings and great selection. Customer service has always been fast. 

I have tried to unwind the outer wrap before to make them fit in my tuners, and yes, that killed the string each time. Lots of folks around here have zero issue with unwinding strings, but in my experience doing that murders the tone each time.


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## Nlelith (Feb 18, 2015)

sevenstringj said:


> If you have a locking bridge (Floyd, FX Edge III), the dead string is likely due to over-tightening.


Hmmm, never seen anyone mention that string can go dead because of over-tightening... Is it from your own experience, or from some article or whatnot? I guess that applies to locking tuners and locking nut too?


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 18, 2015)

Nlelith said:


> Hmmm, never seen anyone mention that string can go dead because of over-tightening... Is it from your own experience, or from some article or whatnot? I guess that applies to locking tuners and locking nut too?



It's a fairly common problem actually, especially with thicker wound strings. The pressure on the wraps can cause them to deform and unwind. 

It's from the length of string being "pancaked" between two hard metal points. It doesn't happen nearly as much in locking nuts and I've never seen it with locking tuners.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 19, 2015)

I have never had this happen with Kaliums, but I did have this happen with D'Addario strings when I unwound it a bit to fit it through my tuner. 

Did you unwind it to fit a tuner, or cut it in a way that could have compromised the windings? Because that's what that buzzy sound is. It's when the windings come loose. So it sounds like they've been put through some sort of pressure or damage or something that has caused this. Considering how many strings we put on instruments at NAMM, straight from the packages, I would think I should have met at least one string with this problem due to statistics alone if this was a common problem at all. 

I think you're looking at a problem outside of the actual strings. Either that, or you've got ridiculously bad luck! Make sure there's no hard contact or stress points or unwinding or anything like that happening!


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## TheEmptyCell (Feb 19, 2015)

If it's the same string, same gauge, then presumably it could just be a bad batch of strings.

The guys at Kalium total 2. You should try to call them to resolve your problem.

As for Octave4Plus that was mentioned by an earlier poster: Don't waste your time. They are a huge pain in the ass to order from and are quite rude.


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## HUGH JAYNUS (Feb 19, 2015)

D'addario sells singles too. I get my strings at www.stringsbymail.com


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## Nlelith (Feb 19, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's a fairly common problem actually, especially with thicker wound strings. The pressure on the wraps can cause them to deform and unwind.
> 
> It's from the length of string being "pancaked" between two hard metal points. It doesn't happen nearly as much in locking nuts and I've never seen it with locking tuners.


Ugh, this is probably why most brands 7th were sounding dead less than in a week on my DC700... Never got them unwound, but always locked them pretty tight. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next string change.

Though, Elixirs seem to be immune to this (my current strings of choice) and both Circle K and DR strings were less affected by it in my experience (felt like they were balancing from nearly dead to nearly fresh sound from day to day). I might want to try them out once again.


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## ItWillDo (Feb 20, 2015)

I can also vouch for StringByMail (even as a European): 

https://www.stringsbymail.com/ghs-dy90-boomers-090-compound-wound-single-guitar-string-5933.html

Very good service, great selection and very friendly and professional in communication as well.


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## Patrickrussell2 (Feb 20, 2015)

To answer a few question. Yes the guitar is properly setup. 

It actually buzzes if you bring it to tension not in contact with a fretboard or attached to a guitar. I made little rig to test this. As far as unwrapping i don't know. I unwrapped the first two buzz the first and had no issues on the second. I've never heard anyone on here say anything about unwinding causing up until now. 

Even if winding caused the issue. Why get no response? That bugs me more than the defective string. 

Thank you for the recommendations guys.


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## The Hiryuu (Feb 20, 2015)

To be fair, email can end up in spam boxes, FB messages can end up in the "other" box.


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## GRIZ (Feb 20, 2015)

i use GHS strings, and you can order custom sets. i have been using their strings for 17 years


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## HanSulu (Feb 20, 2015)

+1 for strings by mail. I order D'Addario singles from them. 

had a shipping address issue that resulted in me never receiving the package (Long story, not their fault) and they provided literally the best customer service I've ever received. I believe the name of the individual I talked to was Matt "thank you Matt ". They gave a $20 gift credit for the inconvenience and ultimately a new order free of charge once it was realized that the package was going to the wrong address.


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## BigViolin (Feb 20, 2015)

I might go back to circle K once the website is updated to reflect the actual gauges that one might receive. The current website is all kinds of jacked up. After recieving 14s instead of 13s with my 9s sets for the second time I inquired and was informed that the sets had been "rebalanced" and I would like them better. Yeah right, that 14 is just what I want for a B string at 29.4".

Anyways, Strings and Beyond sells D'addario singles so I build my own sets and have received nothing but stellar service and super fast shipping. Cheers!

Edit: their D'addario singles go up to .080.


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## Hollowway (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm not sure why you'd send an email and a FB message and then decide that instead of trying again you should spend your time coming on here to vent. There are any number of legitimate reasons why he may not have gotten the messages or not have gotten back to you. It just seems foolish to come on here to bitch about it rather than send a followup email or FB message.


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## thebunfather (Feb 20, 2015)

I had the same problem with my low string buzzing. Turns out it was, as others have posted, caused by unwinding the string to fit through the tuner. If this is indeed your case, you have a couple options. Drill out the tuner to accommodate the larger string gauge or put a dollop of solder on the string (behind the nut, of course) before you unwind it. I chose the latter and never had a problem again.

Hope this helps, man.


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## Explorer (Feb 24, 2015)

Patrickrussell2 said:


> I need an alternative of a company that I can get a .009 to roughly .090 gauge 8 string set for drop E. Anyone have any recommendations?



I use these, and add two plain strings at the top.







On the low strings, I thread them through the bridge/body, and then put locking pliers a finger width past the tuner on the string. I unwind to the locking pliers, and then thread through the tuner. I wind it so that the windings are held against the tuner, and then unlock. That way the windings don't come loose. 

Since I normally get bulk strings for the two high plain strings (less than $3 for 12), and get them with other strings I need for other custom tunings, the strings work out to be less than $1 total for both plain strings, and the 8-string sets work out to be less than $10 total. i do web searches on the EB 2938 sets, and normally get them for $8 or less, shipping included. 

Since I picked up the tiny needle nose locking pliers for stringing/unwinding, I've never had a dead string. 

Cheers!


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## bostjan (Feb 24, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Since I picked up the tiny needle nose locking pliers for stringing/unwinding, I've never had a dead string.
> 
> Cheers!



Link for the locking needlenose pliers?


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## Hollowway (Feb 24, 2015)

Explorer said:


> I use these, and add two plain strings at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean a finger width before the tuner or after? I'm not sure I'm following, but I want to make sure I understand it. Is the unwound part of the string going through the tuner? Or just the unwound portion?


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## bostjan (Feb 24, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> You mean a finger width before the tuner or after? I'm not sure I'm following, but I want to make sure I understand it. Is the unwound part of the string going through the tuner? Or just the unwound portion?



Wouldn't it have to be before the tuner? Are the last two questions saying the same thing? Man, I'm confused now.


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## Explorer (Feb 24, 2015)

bostjan said:


> Link for the locking needlenose pliers?



Here you go!

I just got mine in my local non-big-box hardware store, but I've seen the smaller ones in Home Depot and Sears as well. 



Hollowway said:


> You mean a finger width before the tuner or after? I'm not sure I'm following, but I want to make sure I understand it. Is the unwound part of the string going through the tuner? Or just the unwound portion?



Finger width beyond the tuner. Unwound section goes through tuner, and then gets tightened, so the windings are also held on the tuner post. 

The windings being against the tuner post when tuned prevents them uncoiling/loosening the way an unsecured winding can, thereby avoiding the dead string(s) the OP was motivated to post about in the first place.


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## bostjan (Feb 24, 2015)

Ok, maybe I deserved that. I was hoping for some information about the specific ones you used, though, since the cheap ones I tried were junk, and you had a seemingly good experience, but whatever.


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## Explorer (Feb 24, 2015)

bostjan, I think what I have are these...

Sears.com

...but mine are probably an off-brand, because I think they only cost me around $6-8. 

I specifically bought the ones which were 4" because I didn't need a huge set of pliers for this. I first set the jaw gap thickness by screwing down at the end of the windings while the pliers are locked closed, and then I open them and give the adjusting knob on the pliers another half-turn. I give it a test at that winding ending to be sure it's right, and then put it on at the correct place once the string is through the body and ready to be unwound. 

I don't know if there is any crimping happening when I'm doing this as well, but it's worked pretty well for me so far. I originally was using normal needle-nose pliers after reading about unwinding here on SS.org, but after a few times of that, getting the locking pliers just made sense, so I don't have to keep holding the string from the start of unwinding until just before the windings are against the tuning machine post.


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## sevenstringj (Feb 24, 2015)

Explorer said:


> On the low strings, I thread them through the bridge/body, and then put locking pliers a finger width past the tuner on the string. I unwind to the locking pliers, and then thread through the tuner. I wind it so that the windings are held against the tuner, and then unlock. That way the windings don't come loose.



That's smart.  I usually buy Labella for a non-locking 8-string bridge since they custom make it to the right length straight from the factory--and unwinding is a PITA--but that method opens doors.


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## Explorer (Feb 24, 2015)

I'd love to say that it's a matter of foresight, but really it's that I'm too cheap to spend more than $10 on an 8-string set.

Plus, it's just a happy accident that the Ernie Ball 2837 set has pretty much the tension profile I need for my current 25.5" E standard tuning. I don't think there's another inexpensive solution with a .090 at the bottom end. 

i started using the EB strings when I couldn't easily find stings I needed for full fifths. The .125 for the low Ab0 at 28.625" was a royal pain, and required a ball-end switch to fit the guitar. The .090 made things easier.


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## codyblast (Feb 25, 2015)

Hi, the buzzing is because the winds have become loose from the string. This happens for several reasons and is usually user error.
-unwinding the string and pushing the fully wound part right up to the machine head then bringing it to tension. The sharp angle will pull on the outer wind seperate to the inner wind and destroy the tone.
-over clamping of locking tuners or bridges. This flattens the winds and then the tension applied affects the two winds seperately.

For this to not happen, simply
A/ drill out your machine head so you don't have to unwind
B/ if you're unwinding, unwind and leave some further unwound string between the machine head an the nut so the tension is being applied straight to the core and the string stretches evenly throughout the winds
C/ with locking machine heads or bridges, it only has to be tight enough that the tightening screw won't move under minimal tension with the Allen key. This is the point where you have reached maximum grip. Over tightening will thread screws, cause weak points in the string, and create no more tension than a properly tightened screw would.

I was having similar frustrations till I figured out WHY the string sounded like it did, and what the cause was. Just avoid doing anything that can seperate the winds from each other across the length of the string and you'll be fine.


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## Explorer (Feb 25, 2015)

codyblast said:


> if you're unwinding, unwind and leave some further unwound string between the machine head an the nut so the tension is being applied straight to the core and the string stretches evenly throughout the winds



Are you saying that it's better have unwound string between the tuning machine and the nut? 

And are you actually saying it's better for the tension to applied to the core so that it can pull through the windings, letting them rattle or sound dead?

The OP was hoping to eliminate that problem.That's why i talked about the windings being locked against the tuning machine post, so the tension isn't just being applied to the core. You're making it sound like loose windings and dead sound like the OP has are actually what the OP should want. 

Clarification, please.


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## sevenstringj (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm in the middle.  Leaving an inch or so of inner winding coming out of the post resulted in a dead string, and pulling the string through so the outer winding is right smack up against the hole in the post also gave me a dead string. So I pull it till the outer widing is right up against the tuner and then back off slightly to leave a little slack. This way, the outer winding wraps around the post, but isn't making a sharp bend itself. Haven't had a dead string since.

Disclaimer: I'm talking about maybe 5-6 dead strings, between the tuner and locking bridge. Probably not statistically significant.  It's basically trial and error.


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## jarledge (Feb 26, 2015)

I have a dc800 and never really had a problem getting the lowest string in the tuner. 

I have set up other 8 strings where I had to drill the tuner out a little. I think the guy had an 86 or 90 gauge and it fit the tuner with minimal drilling required. 

A company should really make a larger drop in tuner for the lowest 8 string so people dont have to drill the hole out.


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## Shredcow (Feb 26, 2015)

This buzz-because-of-loosened-windings is new to me! That could explain _my_ case of strange open string buzz with my 0.74/0.80 low F#!


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## codyblast (Feb 26, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Are you saying that it's better have unwound string between the tuning machine and the nut?
> 
> And are you actually saying it's better for the tension to applied to the core so that it can pull through the windings, letting them rattle or sound dead?
> 
> ...



Read my post again if you didn't understand it. I don't see anything murky in it.

As far as applying string tension to the core, that's what the winds are winded around, yeah? Doing the opposite would be like trying to pick someone up by their shirt. Their shirt will move off the person. Pick up the person by the hand and the shirt moves with them. I thought that was obvious. Whatever, I solved the issue for myself by doing what I've described, if you think it's a dumb idea without even trying it then that's up to you


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## Explorer (Feb 26, 2015)

codyblast said:


> Read my post again if you didn't understand it. I don't see anything murky in it.
> 
> As far as applying string tension to the core, that's what the winds are winded around, yeah? Doing the opposite would be like trying to pick someone up by their shirt. Their shirt will move off the person. Pick up the person by the hand and the shirt moves with them. I thought that was obvious. Whatever, I solved the issue for myself by doing what I've described, if you think it's a dumb idea without even trying it then that's up to you



Well, you were certainly clear about it. 

To use your shirt example, You've got someone (string core) wearing an untucked T-shirt (the windings) laying on a rubber mat (the nut). 

Someone draggs the person a distance on the mat by the legs (the tuning machine pulls on the core).

Friction from the mat's surface (whatever friction the nut/string combo has) , as well as by the person's weight from not being completely picked up (downward pressure on the nut) work to keep the T-shirt (windings) from sliding on the mat (across the nut). 

The person's stomach (the core) is exposed while the T-shirt (windings) ride up and get loose. 

Wow! That's a great example of how to cause loose windings and a dead string. That's actually what the OP wants to avoid, though. 

And, just in case someone might think a "non-friction" nut will let the windings just glide along, it doesn't work that way. Even putting a heavy object on a non-friction surface and sliding it still has the object slowing. 

And even if the nut were completely friction-free, any slight edge of the winding wire would still have to rise above the edge of the nut. All those little ridges, you know? And if there is no pull from the other end (the winding isn't being pulled by the tuner in the "loose T-shirt method," remember?), there is nothing to pull the winding along with the core. 

Thanks for letting me know that you were advising just what I was hoping you weren't, codyblast!


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## robski92 (Feb 27, 2015)

I just bought 2 sets of strings from a company called Stringjoy and I'm a fan of them! I saw the highest string gutiar wise they have is a .90. I use 11-52 + 74 on my 7 and they play awesome!


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## codyblast (Feb 28, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Well, you were certainly clear about it.
> 
> To use your shirt example, You've got someone (string core) wearing an untucked T-shirt (the windings) laying on a rubber mat (the nut).
> 
> ...



I fail to see why you think a winding wouldn't stretch as the string is stretched. Have you ever unwound a string? Windings don't compress easily, definately not from the string simply being brought to pitch. Ever played bass? Ever seen the super common bass strings where the te string is tapered toward the machine head? If your hypothesis were correct, every single one of these strings would be dead every single time because the tension is being applied to the core of the string. Your 'logic' as absolute nonsense and your tone / attitude is horrendous. Arrogant fools like you are the reason I barely go on this site anymore, I just gave this dude a legit answer to his question after over coming the exact problem myself, restringing every night on tour., yet you'd rather derail the thread by intellectually prematurely ejaculating everywhere. A nut pushing the windings off the string core? Are you insane? I'm so done with site, you sir are the straw that broke the camels back on my time here. I look forward to your long winded, pretentious reply. Bye everyone.


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## DancingCloseToU (Feb 28, 2015)




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## MemphisHawk (Feb 28, 2015)

He is worse at arguing than I am.


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## Explorer (Mar 2, 2015)

codyblast said:


> I fail to see why you think a winding wouldn't stretch as the string is stretched. Have you ever unwound a string? Windings don't compress easily, definately not from the string simply being brought to pitch. Ever played bass? Ever seen the super common bass strings where the te string is tapered toward the machine head? If your hypothesis were correct, every single one of these strings would be dead every single time because the tension is being applied to the core of the string. Your 'logic' as absolute nonsense and your tone / attitude is horrendous. Arrogant fools like you are the reason I barely go on this site anymore, I just gave this dude a legit answer to his question after over coming the exact problem myself, restringing every night on tour., yet you'd rather derail the thread by intellectually prematurely ejaculating everywhere. A nut pushing the windings off the string core? Are you insane? I'm so done with site, you sir are the straw that broke the camels back on my time here. I look forward to your long winded, pretentious reply. Bye everyone.





I don't think a winding will travel with the core when only the core is being pulled, while there is simultaneously pressure on the winding to keep it from moving. You obviously feel differently, and believe there is no friction at the nut, which is why there aren't self-lubricating nuts and Nut Sauce as viable products in your particular personal universe. Very logical on your part. 

I gave the T-shirt example because that's the easiest way to explain how not pulling on the shirt (the windings) at the same time as the person being pulled (the core) makes the shirt ride up (the windings get loosened) against the pressure/friction produced by the floor (nut). It's an easy example as an explanation.

And in answer to your question, yes, I've unwound strings. I think my first post about it on this site was back in 2010, and I've been successfully doing it for a while with no issues like what the OP is suffering. 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...th-string-too-big-tuner-hole.html#post2093360

*If you want to argue there is no friction at the nut, and therefore nothing stopping the winding from moving along with the minimal friction between winding and core, I'd love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise your argument about not pulling the winding past that nut doesn't work. *

Cheers!


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## Explorer (Mar 2, 2015)

BTW, you wouldn't happen to be related to Alex Csiky of Zachary Guitars/ZOG strings, would you? The resemblance is amazing.


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## Douglas Dusold (Aug 4, 2020)

Patrickrussell2 said:


> I preface this understanding that there are many diehard fans on site of this company but my experience with them has been less than stellar.
> 
> I ordered an 8 string set a month or so ago and experienced a low string that "buzzed" internally. If you've never had it imagine a fret buzz that can't be found (string also will be dead with no sustain) I messaged asking about it and skip said this is rare but happens sometimes due to their winding process. He sent me a replacement. This string worked.
> 
> ...


Patrick my guy, you bought the same set I did basically (I got .010-.90) and my 8th string or my G# (I play in drop Eb/D#) and my bottom string would buzz. Raise the action a mile. Buzz. Adjust truss rod. Buzz. Only if I tuned it to standard that 8th string would sound better but you could faintly hear that buzz. Again no matter what I did with action and truss rod adjustments. Threw on my old ernieball .80 aaaaaaaaaand what do ya know, fretbuzz is gone. I wouldn't even call it fretbuzz. It was a strange frequency that would happen half a second after picking your fretted 8th string. Anyway this is tl;dr but yeah dude you basically answered the thing that's been making me wanna put my RGMS8 through a fuckin wall


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