# JCM 800 or Mesa Rectifier? HELP ME DECIDE!



## itscurbe (May 12, 2011)

I'm trying to decide between these two amps. I know the basic differences, but I haven't played with a jcm 800 in a long time (played a rectifier at the music shop only yesterday). I'm looking generally for more of a doom metal feel, or maybe a grunge type of thing. I already have a Marshall 4x12 1960s cab. Which amp should I get? hmm?

thanks people

EDIT: also, I'm considering the Axe FX standard, but if I get it I won't be able to get a proper FRFR cab for it and will just have to run it through my Sunn Coliseum Lead Amp into a regular guitar cab.


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## Rook (May 12, 2011)

I'd go Mesa personally, and I did.

JCM800's are great at one thing, you buys JCM800 for that sound, to me the Recto's are much more versatile and partciularly the multi-watt heads.

Let's be honest though, the two couldn't be more different when comparing high gain heads...


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## FretWizard88 (May 12, 2011)

You should just save your money and buy a Mark V. You can pretty much get any tone you want.


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## 155 (May 12, 2011)

for me the recto more versitile


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (May 12, 2011)

JCM 800 2203 with ZW overdrive pedal = awesome!

Loved it, but sold it and kept my Dual Rec, in the end. I got a ENGL Powerball with the money, sold that, got a Stiletto, sold that (thought it was a MESA jcm 800, I couldn't have been more wrong, I think it's for indi kids awful amp!!! my ears still hurt after all this time! Mk1).

Still have a Dual Rectifier, but would buy another Marshall JCM 800 FOR THE RIGHT PRICE IF I HAD THE MONEY. I wouldn't go out of my way for one, owning a Dual.

Additionally, Marshall cabs aren't MESA cabs. Marshall cabs are nasty. Mesa cabs are real cabinets... Much heavier, bigger and have real speakers, custom celestion vintage 30's from Thames Ditton, London! FTW!

Seriously, though, MesaRectifier cabs are IMO the best you can buy. Much better bass and treble response and less directional than Marshall, in general.

Lot's of people like a TubeScreamer in front of the MESA or Marshall JCM, Maxon od808 or Ibanez TS9 or other.

If the Dual is cheaper, get it. If you can get a 2203 reissue or quality vintage with good repair info for similar money do it. then sell for profit and buy mesa if you change your mind. Good ones are hard to find. Marshall are overpriced in US, I believe.

Marshall
Pro's
Great LEADS!
GREAT CLEANS!
REVERB!
Uses proper valves (EL34's) not nasty 6L6's which SUCK!

Finally, and the best:
2 button switch BUT all channel switching is done from YOUR guitars VOLUME KNOB!!!
(I hope you know what I mean, turn down gives clean, turn up metal!)

Proper old skool amp, which in good condition with good valves is unbeatable.

Cons

considered rare and can be expensive
old ones are often repaired or modded by unknown "techs"
can be unreliable if abused and parts in US may be hard to find

MESA Dual Rec
nice amp

Cons
everyone has one now a days
comes stock with 6l6's
encourages rack and external FX use = more GAS and more money for reverb etc.
if you clean the diamond plate with anything other than a microfibre cloth, you can ruin it
quite heavy, maybe less weight than JCM 800
small chasis looks weak on a cabinet unlike full size JCM800! 
You'll have to buy a real cabinet (mesa recto cab) to get the real sound...

With the Marshall cab it WILL NOT SOUND CORRECT, IT WILL SOUND SHIT.

To be totally honest, I rarely use my Dual now. My pod get's a lot of use for recording and what not. When I play out, it's usually more convenient to borrow an amp than drag my mesa and 4x12 around. I took it to a gig with a Marshall cab at the venue, sounded fine for leads and medium gain, but when you go high gain, loud and powerful, it will not be as good as the mesa cabinet.

Make sure you Don't need a combo or smaller setup, as the practicality far outweighs "TONE" in my experience. I mainly use recording gear, monitor speakers and line 6 tones (then reamp later) for most of my playing. Better monitors would suit me over the dual, as recording quality is more important than an amp I could rent or borrow.

Recto with EL34's ROCK!!! Harma CRYO VALVES FTW!!!

Sorry to be confusing! I hope that helps!


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## Guitarmiester (May 12, 2011)

I'd go for the Recto. Like others have mentioned, it's much more versatile than the Marshall. I used a Triple Recto for the past 4-5 years and was very happy with it. Sadly, I sold it a couple months ago because I'm not playing anywhere as much as I used to and don't have time for a band like I used to. 

You may want to consider selling your cab, but wait until you can put in some time with whichever amp you decide on. It's not a bad cab, it just doesn't suit the voicing of a Recto. I tried to like the Recto/Marshall 1960A combo, but it just wasn't cutting it. It's those G12-75's. You may be perfectly fine with it though, it's all subjective anyway.


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## nostealbucket (May 12, 2011)

Mesa = Awesome.

Jcm 800 + a few pedals = Something sorta like Mesa but...

Just go for the Mesa.


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## Dead Undead (May 12, 2011)

Personally I'd go with a JCM 800 2203, but the Mesa is just as good, just for different reasons.
For grunge/doom metal, I'd look at Laney. The old Pro-Tube heads are perfect for stoner/doom.
If it's good enough for Iommi...


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## Guitarmiester (May 12, 2011)

Or, you could get the best of both worlds and hunt down a Mesa Stiletto Deuce. It is a little on the bright side for doom/sludge though.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (May 12, 2011)

On a JCM 800, you control the tone with the volume control and pickups on the guitar. The best way.

On a Mesa, you set 3 sounds on the amp and footswitch. You'll also need a multi FX, and you'll need to switch that, too.

To make my Mesa sound good, I have a TC G Major, a GCX audio switcher (for amp channels and midi switching of FX etc.), a midi pedal and a big rack.

When I used my 800, a delay pedal would've been nice, but the built in spring reverb was fine. The Zakk Wylde pedal was great with it. Could get Fear Factory tone from when they were good, as well as all the old metal stuff that was recorded with them and modern tones, too. As well as old man music.  Ahem... Sorry, classic rock and roll. so, 1 pedal, maybe a delay as well, if you like that sorta thing.

MESA = Complex setup and extra costs from expensive luxury gear you didn't think you needed and you have to get the recto cab, all else does not sound right for br00tz.

JCM 800 = people try to make them expensive for no reason.

Anyone try the slayer 800 special edition yet?

Regarding the Stilletto Trident, I sold my MK 1 ASAP, get out of my house POS!!!!!!! It was so bad... I was lucky that when I ordered it I got it sent in a great hard case, which I really liked (built in rack) so it wasn't all bad. The amp did look cool though, maybe I should've kept it to look good and as a slave for my Recto in stereo.... why didn't I think of that, as it was the preamp that sucked BAD. They might have improved by now, but I'd recommend try before you buy with a Mesa cab so you can hear it properly.


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## Dead Undead (May 12, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> Anyone try the slayer 800 special edition yet?



The Kerry King? It's... weird. I thought it was kinda fizzy when you play. I guess that's why they built in a noise gate - so they could get away with it being fizzy but saying it has a noise gate cancels that out. It's pretty decent, but I wouldn't buy it, honestly. It says it's a "2203" but I really can't say it sounds like the old 2203.

Mind you that's my one experience with the amp.


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## itscurbe (May 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the information everybody. 


The reason I was considering an amp in the $1k range is because I didn't want to feel like I needed to get anything extra (I do already have a Pod HD 500). Now that I realize the Mesa might not sound too great coming out of my marshall cab I'm leaning more towards the Axe FX standard. thoughts?


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## AzzMan (May 13, 2011)

The Pod would be a nice addition to pretty much any amp where you want off-board effects- or so I hear. I haven't messed with one personally, but my understanding is that it's quite plug-and-play.

With that said, if you want the Rectifier tone, you've gotta get a Rectifier, because practically nothing else can do that. Don't let the cab stop you, if it's the problem, swap it for a Mesa or Vader or whatever suites you. I like the JCM 800 (and most Marshall amps) better than the Recto, so if it were me, that would be my direction. I haven't caught on with this whole Axe FX thing, partially because I simply can't afford it, partially because I just like standard amps and rack gear, so I don't see a need to change.

Also, if you DID go the Axe FX route, you COULD just get a power amp for it, you don't *need* to get a FRFR system. I've heard them sound great straight through the PA too.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (May 13, 2011)

The Single Rectifier is cool, too, as you can use your POD to add any preamps you might feel lacking in the 2 channel Single Rectifier amp. All you "supposedly" loose out on with the Single is tube rectification and the 3rd channel... Everyone uses the solid state rectification anyway on their Dual Rec's, except a few renegades and blues players.

Also, with the Single Recto, something like the Behreinger FCB1010 can control the channel switching and the POD via MIDI - press 1 button and amp channel/presets on pod change together. That's where the good things happen.

Axe FX and power amp could be nice, as portable and use whatever cabs are around at the venue, and the PA. Saves carrying cabs etc. Just beware settings tweakers obsessive compulsion. 

Buying amps is always fun!


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## eaeolian (May 13, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I'd go Mesa personally, and I did.
> 
> JCM800's are great at one thing, you buys JCM800 for that sound, to me the Recto's are much more versatile and partciularly the multi-watt heads.
> 
> Let's be honest though, the two couldn't be more different when comparing high gain heads...



+1 to all.


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## xtacles (May 13, 2011)

+1 Mesa. Both are great (different) sounding amps, but the Mesa just offers more flexibility, reliability, etc.


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## BabUShka (May 13, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> Anyone try the slayer 800 special edition yet?




Yeah, i liked it. 
It isn't that bruutal, but very nice, classic metal distortion. And it sounded pretty good a lower volumes too. 
But for some reasons, I still think that a JCM800 2203, 2204 sounds better and heavier.. But still, great amp imo. 

JCM800 vs Mesa.. Hard choise man, two pretty different amps. 
I would maybe go for the Mesa, but still.. The JCM800 got some own, special charm that few other amps have.


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## Dead Undead (May 13, 2011)

Didn't even consider the Laney? Maybe a Peavey VTM 60?
They're way cheaper but just as good! Plus, they respond to pedals quite well, but you usually don't need any. Maybe a TS9 for boost and an MXR 10 band EQ, and add whatever other effects you may want and you're good to go. 
In OP you said you want a sludge/doom/grunge tone. Those would be perfect. I can see MESA used for that I guess, but I would take a Laney over that any day for stoner/doom metal.


EDIT:

Also, I have no doubt they can get tones very similar to a JCM 800.


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## SSK0909 (May 13, 2011)

It took me about 5-10 minutes to tweak a Laney to sound 99% like my JCM800 2203 from 1987.

Sold the JCM for twice the cash I bought the Laney for


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## Guitarmiester (May 14, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> On a JCM 800, you control the tone with the volume control and pickups on the guitar. The best way.
> 
> On a Mesa, you set 3 sounds on the amp and footswitch. You'll also need a multi FX, and you'll need to switch that, too.
> 
> ...



I don't understand how the Mesa is a complex setup. The JCM is a more bare-bones amp, but can be just as complex with added pedals, rack units, switching systems, etc. They're only as complex as the user makes it out to be. 

I had a Triple Recto that I used for years. Sure, it has three channels and three modes per channel (clean has two), but you're not going to be using all three modes on each channel. I didn't even use all three channels. I ran a really simple, yet effective rig. Tuner, OD, and delay in front and a delay in the loop. The included footswitch covered all ground for me since I only used two channels and occasionally engaged the effects loop.


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## Rook (May 14, 2011)

I tried the KK JCM800 found it to be a fizzy mess personally, not a fan.

As for the Mesa Stiletto series, I really like them, but particularly the Ace, an amazing little amp. The EQ is pre-gain stage like a Mark Series, so keep that bass back, and pump the mids and or treble to get a nice, tight, crunchy high gain.

I'm a real fan of the Stilettos, and recommend the OP tried one if they're torn between boogie and Marshall, it could be the ideal go between.


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## budda (May 16, 2011)

If you want the JCM 800, Laney AOR and you're laughing.


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