# Neck Dive Alleviation



## Leberbs (Oct 19, 2016)

Any suggestions for a neck dive fix on a Schecter Stiletto Session 5? Already using a 3" strap. Anything else? Lightweight tuners?


----------



## eyeswide (Oct 20, 2016)

You can move the strap button on the bottom higher up from where it is. It'll take some drilling, so don't .... it up!


----------



## LordCashew (Oct 20, 2016)

You can add weight to the strap near the bottom strap button. Like, tie a bag of pennies to it...


----------



## GenghisCoyne (Oct 20, 2016)

https://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=44

remove headstock


----------



## ixlramp (Oct 20, 2016)

Adding weight is bad for comfort. The issue is strap button placement, you can move the rear button to the the front of the body at the top above and halfway between the pickups.
This also helps to shift the bass to the right, bringing the nut closer which is healthier for your wrist.
Bass design is just bad when it comes to strap balance, and they are too far shifted to the left.
By balancing the bass on your leg you can see the centre of mass is around the 24th fret. Ideally the strap buttons should be equal horizontal distance either side of the COM when the bass is at playing angle.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Oct 20, 2016)

GenghisCoyne said:


> https://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=44
> 
> remove headstock



That seems insanely expensive for what it is.


----------



## Leberbs (Oct 20, 2016)

eyeswide said:


> You can move the strap button on the bottom higher up from where it is. It'll take some drilling, so don't .... it up!



The bottom meaning the button by the bridge? Bring it higher up on the body?


----------



## Leberbs (Oct 20, 2016)

GenghisCoyne said:


> https://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=44
> 
> remove headstock



13/10 would destroy the bass trying.


----------



## Leberbs (Oct 20, 2016)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> That seems insanely expensive for what it is.



Just replacing the tuners with their ultralites is $175.


----------



## Leberbs (Oct 20, 2016)

ixlramp said:


> Adding weight is bad for comfort. The issue is strap button placement, you can move the rear button to the the front of the body at the top above and halfway between the pickups.
> This also helps to shift the bass to the right, bringing the nut closer which is healthier for your wrist.
> Bass design is just bad when it comes to strap balance, and they are too far shifted to the left.
> By balancing the bass on your leg you can see the centre of mass is around the 24th fret. Ideally the strap buttons should be equal horizontal distance either side of the COM when the bass is at playing angle.



Can't balance the bass at all on the leg. I held it by a finger at the bottom of the fretboard and it balances out at the 18th fret.


----------



## laxu (Oct 21, 2016)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> That seems insanely expensive for what it is.



It's a bit of a niche product though headless guitars are making a comeback. I just want the same to happen with headless basses, in multiscale preferably.


----------



## A-Branger (Oct 21, 2016)

if you are thinking to change the rear strap button, try it with ducktape first before you open any hole. in that way you can know if it works and where it would work best


----------



## Action (Oct 21, 2016)

Leberbs said:


> The bottom meaning the button by the bridge? Bring it higher up on the body?



Yes. Many basses have the pin directly centered under the bridge. It is already shifted higher on a stiletto, but the idea is to go higher still, away from the electronics cavity and jack. (Higher means while bass is in playing position) If they'd made the top horn extend further than the 13th fret, this problem wouldn't happen.

Test before drilling +1


----------



## ixlramp (Oct 21, 2016)

Leberbs said:


> Can't balance the bass at all on the leg. I held it by a finger at the bottom of the fretboard and it balances out at the 18th fret.


That's ridiculous, as bad as my 8 string flying-V bass.
Why do they even add a lower horn if it can't balance on the thigh.
Well, it is a Schecter heh.
My Ibanez BTB 6 string is perfectly stable on the thigh. But of course unbalanced and unergonomic on a strap.
So much guitar and bass design is so bad, often all that matters is that it resembles a 50s / 60s design.
So many stupid musicians who only care about them looking like a 50s / 60s design.

Moving the rear strap button up won't help at all as it will be the same horizontal distance from the C.O.M.
It would have to be on the body front above the 24th fret.
My 8 string bass has both buttons close together near the neck joint, looks weird but nearly balanced.







Light tuners will save a tiny amount of weight for a big price, and make very little difference..


----------



## A-Branger (Oct 23, 2016)

ixlramp said:


> So much guitar and bass design is so bad, often all that matters is that it resembles a 50s / 60s design.
> So many stupid musicians who only care about them looking like a 50s / 60s design.



couldnt agree more.... plus adding to my Fender hate.... why every bass in the planet HAS to resemble a stupid Fender P or J bass???

not only they are huge and heavy. But every time I pick one up to get a "lets see whats the hype" on a store, not only I experience a neck dive as bad as it could be. Coming from playing Ibanez basses I never understood neck dive till I pick a fender up, woooow..... plus they are the worst basses as to sit comfortable on your lap. The cut for your leg, not only is in the wrong spot, but the wrong shape too


----------



## laxu (Oct 24, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> couldnt agree more.... plus adding to my Fender hate.... why every bass in the planet HAS to resemble a stupid Fender P or J bass???



It's interesting because generally bassists are much more open to new designs and features than guitarists are yet there are still so many P and J basses. I don't find anything wrong with them soundwise but the design could be better. Surprise surprise my Yamaha BB bass (P/J style) doesn't balance that well either and has a slight neck dive.

I feel that most basses should be headless to balance right or alternative a bit shorter scale. I adore my Ibanez BTB33 with a 33" scale, it's super comfortable to play.


----------



## A-Branger (Oct 24, 2016)

laxu said:


> It's interesting because generally bassists are much more open to new designs and features than guitarists are yet there are still so many P and J basses. I don't find anything wrong with them soundwise but the design could be better. Surprise surprise my Yamaha BB bass (P/J style) doesn't balance that well either and has a slight neck dive.
> 
> I feel that most basses should be headless to balance right or alternative a bit shorter scale. I adore my Ibanez BTB33 with a 33" scale, it's super comfortable to play.



I know. I got nothing wrong with the sound either, but the shape is the one I hate.

I got and ibanez SR300 and my Ibanez EDA905 with luthile body. Both have very minimal neck dive. But the shape of my 5 string has an amazing bottom horn who grabs your leg, and any little neck dive it has it gets canceled as soon as you rest your right harm in the body to play. I have never been aware of "neck dive" with these basses, or any Ibanez really. Wasnt until not long ago that I pickup a Fender J bass that I saw what neck dive really is :O 

also how you find the BTB-33?? Im still GASing hard for that one as I found an online store with a second hand one for half the price. Im planing to get a low B on it. And where is the NBD tread? lol


----------



## laxu (Oct 25, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> also how you find the BTB-33?? Im still GASing hard for that one as I found an online store with a second hand one for half the price. Im planing to get a low B on it. And where is the NBD tread? lol



Forgot to post one.  Actually just getting the bass was a fluke, I was looking to try the BTB-1605 but the store didn't have it so I gave the 33 a try just out of curiosity (had never played a bass with a high C string) and really loved it. Wanted to do some research on it so didn't buy it right there. Then I spotted a mint condition used one on the next day and ended up buying that.

I don't really care for the natural color top on it, I feel any other color on the wings with a natural color only on the neckthru portion would've looked much better. Other than that, I love it. It's so damn comfortable to play thanks to the 17mm string spacing and slightly shorter scale. Perfectly balanced too. The ramp is a cool feature even though it did surprisingly little for my playing so I guess I already had a fairly good technique. Still a really nice thing to have on a production bass and something I would like to have on my future basses too.

It's not ideal for slap because of the string spacing but acceptable for that too. I really dig the BTB design but don't like the 19mm string spacing on most models. I want to try the low B on mine the next time I change strings. There's one guy on Talkbass who owns two of these so he can have one with a low B and the other with the high C. I kinda hope Ibanez would make a 6-string version of it so I could have both the low B and high C.


----------



## A-Branger (Oct 25, 2016)

laxu said:


> I don't really care for the natural color top on it, I feel any other color on the wings with a natural color only on the neckthru portion would've looked much better. Other than that, I love it. It's so damn comfortable to play thanks to the 17mm string spacing and slightly shorter scale. Perfectly balanced too. The ramp is a cool feature even though it did surprisingly little for my playing so I guess I already had a fairly good technique. Still a really nice thing to have on a production bass and something I would like to have on my future basses too.
> 
> It's not ideal for slap because of the string spacing but acceptable for that too. I really dig the BTB design but don't like the 19mm string spacing on most models. I want to try the low B on mine the next time I change strings. There's one guy on Talkbass who owns two of these so he can have one with a low B and the other with the high C. I kinda hope Ibanez would make a 6-string version of it so I could have both the low B and high C.



yeah thats kinda my reasoning fro them too. Im not too fuzz about the wood/color of it, but compared to all the options available from Ibanez it was a "hey, it aint that bad mmmm" when it was released, would have prefer with a different woods for the neck, but still holds as one of my favourites finish except to the SR1300 with the wenge neck, walnut stripe and gold hardware. Also the one I got to try at the store and lucky the one Im eyeballing online both have the mahogany backs reaaaaaly dark, almost black. Now that I love about it, instead of some browns out there.

I also loved the BTB line but hated the string spacing and the big nut width, so I was really impress by the flat fretboard and the scale lenght. String spacing Im happy as I was already considering a SR so all good. I also loved the sound, but I kinda liked the sound of the SR premiums with the Nordstrands bit better, so Im debating there on what to get.


----------

