# What's up with all the hate for Tune O Matic?



## The Spanish Inquisition (Jul 15, 2013)

Hey guys, I've seen a lot of people bashing or criticizing the Tune O Matic bridge system. Now I'm wondering: what is so bad about them? I find them very comfortable and I like the way it looks.

Sorry if this has been asked about 2000 times, couldn't find anything specifically on this.


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## Joshua (Jul 15, 2013)

I personally dont like the way they look 75% of the time. But, they are pretty comfortable, and I don't mind having them on guitars. Everyone has their own tastes I guess


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

I just don't dig the angle most of the time.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I just don't dig the angle most of the time.



Can you be a bit more specific? The neck angle, the bridge angle, the angle of the strings?


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jul 15, 2013)

I've had some issues with buzzing/ringing from them, but other than that i like 'em. nice solid bridge design IMO



Konfyouzd said:


> I just don't dig the angle most of the time.



SGs can be that way for me - seems the bridge is further up than i'm used to on SGs normally..i may be smoking crack, but that's how it always feels to me


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

The bridge seems to almost always sit noticeably higher than the fretboard and if feels uncomfortable.

EDIT: 'd


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## flo (Jul 15, 2013)

They aren't bad considering it's a very old design, but they for example don't offer individual height adjustment for each string. Other systems are technically more advanced, but sure the tune o matic works fine in many cases.


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## greendog86 (Jul 15, 2013)

tone-o-matic with string trough body is my favourite bridge type...


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> The bridge seems to almost always sit noticeably higher than the fretboard and if feels uncomfortable.



The bridge on my Dean isn't that high, I think it's a tad higher than a high Hipshot bridge. 

What I do see a lot, is that Tune O Matics on arch top guitars are ridiculously high on the body.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

Those are the only ones I've ever played.  

I pretty much avoid them otherwise because there are other options available that I feel offer more flexibility for the reasons Flo mentioned.


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## mnemonic (Jul 15, 2013)

Tune-o-matics are my favourite bridge, I actually prefer them alot more than strat-style bridges. I just think they're a bit more comfortable and maybe I'm crazy but I think palm mutes are easier/sound better on a TOM. 

My newest seven has a recessed TOM bridge and I must say, it's alot cooler looking than the higher-off-the-body TOM bridges on lots of other guitars.


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## Mike (Jul 15, 2013)

i like em. actually i like any fixed bridge. people find too many things to be picky about


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## Rosal76 (Jul 15, 2013)

YJGB said:


> I find them very comfortable and I like the way it looks.



I, too, think they are comfortable. I have one on my Jackson King V. 



YJGB said:


> Now I'm wondering: what is so bad about them?



Limited/lack of range adjustment of the saddles.  

1. Very little room for back and forth movements of the saddles for intonation. 

2. No adjustment for >individual< saddle heights.

3. Curvature of the tune o matic may not match the radius of the fretboard making some of the strings too high or too low off the fretboard.


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## Heroin (Jul 15, 2013)

The angle makes it a bit uncomfortable compared to a hipshot/similar bridge. Now if the TOM was recessed it would probably be just as comfortable.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

I have yet to play a recessed one. The TOM is what kept me from buying an ApexII a while back... Then I found out after I'd passed it up that the TOM was recessed...


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## User Name (Jul 15, 2013)

i love the tune-o-matic on my damien elite 7. i find it very comfortable especially for muting.


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## Suitable (Jul 15, 2013)

Rosal76 said:


> Very little room for back and forth movements of the saddles for intonation.



Spot on.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 15, 2013)

TOMs can be matched to any radius as the string heights can be changed. Granted, it requires working on the saddles, but I don't see folks complaining that the string nuts on guitars aren't fully adjustable.  Takes the same amount of work to get right. 

As for intonation range, on a typical 6-string, and most 7-strings, the range is 100% fine. I have a Les Paul in A that intonates perfectly, and have setup dozens upon dozens of TOM equipped guitars for all kinds of tunings. It's only when you go SUPER low d oyou run into issues.

It seems these days everyone wants a guitar that they can throw in all kinds of tunings, several whole tones apart, and adjust a single screw or two to make it work. There's no guitar in the world like that. Even the most basic changes in tuning will require some work, and in the big picture, unless you're going for something very niche in nature, any bridge will be perfectly functional. 

Whether it's comfortable or not, that's totally preference and will really come down to how the player rests their hands, or doesn't if that's the case.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

What Max said. I've never seen anyone complain about the intonation on their 7-string Schecters or Mayones Setiuses.


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## Suitable (Jul 15, 2013)

Agreed, though its those low tunings where they fail compared to other bridges unless the guitar is built for that specific tuning. Any guitar needs some set up work to adjust for different tunings, some TOM styles are just more limited in the fact you may have to do major surgery to set them up properly to suit, especially on a sixer, to the point of either no return or the need of new saddles to suit standard tunings after the mod/s.


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## leonardo7 (Jul 15, 2013)

They are too high off the body. This is why people like them recessed like how Mayones does on the Setius and KxK does. Nobody complains about them when they are recessed. They are a fine bridge system, just a little to high for some people. It doesnt mean that the action is high at all, it just has to do with the height of where you rest your palm.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

^Precisely... It's why I couldn't get on with my friend's SLSMG


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## mongey (Jul 15, 2013)

I used to really like them. Played one exclusively for like 15 years

the last 3 been playing a tele bridge and a hipshot and now I dispise the TOM 

like others said I hate the highness from the body and the angle it creates


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## Hamatha (Jul 15, 2013)

I find people that hate on TOM are usually just people who like stupidly low action, or people that are used to playing Ibanez Edge terms. I'm fine with pretty much any bridge as long as it's set up right.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 15, 2013)

Hamatha said:


> I find people that hate on TOM are usually just people who like stupidly low action, or people that are used to playing Ibanez Edge terms. I'm fine with pretty much any bridge as long as it's set up right.



Hey, I resemble that comment! 


I  my LPs though.


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## Suitable (Jul 15, 2013)

My LP has a TOM and I have a stupidly low action with it (0.8mm off the last) I just can't intonate it properly for some reason if I tune it to Ab  I still love it though and will never sell it! And I love my Ibanezs too  I just have a lot of love for any guitar with any bridge  its just that some bridges suit certain applications better than others, it doesn't mean they're bad, they just have more limitations than others.


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## Cloudy (Jul 16, 2013)

I find I get a lot more buzz/I also find it ugly.


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## chassless (Jul 16, 2013)

i have never had any intonation problem on my TOM string-through-body washburn, not in the 4 years i've owned it. not once !

however i do admit the palm muting was just a little less easy on it, compared to my older superstrat with a stock tremolo bridge. i think it's because i had gotten used to the flatter radius of my older guitar. or it's because the strings protrude upwards a bit on my washburn's TOM.

ah well ! i got used to TOM to the point that i'm snobbing any guitar that doesn't include a TOM string-through-body construction.

i have yet to try a recessed one.


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## mulgreaux (Jul 16, 2013)

I have one on my ES-335. I rate it. Sounds and looks immense, and no problems with intonation.


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## nicktao (Jul 16, 2013)

They ruin great guitars, but for the most part recessed toms are ok. I would have bought almost every DC7/800 on Carvin's in stock section so it's not all bad.


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## hairychris (Jul 16, 2013)

I don't like playing them, mainly because my picking hand likes to rest on the guitar top.

I haven't tried a recessed TOM which may resolve that particular problem...


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## morethan6 (Jul 16, 2013)

Recessed TOM bridges are just a way of dealing with not having a neck pocket angle. It kinda seems like bad (i.e cheap and easy) guitar design to need to recess them to me. It also gives a less acute break angle to the tail-piece (or body if it's a string through), which is not normally desirable.

Just my opinion - I have them on both my LPs and my CP Jazzy and I like the bridge design...mostly. My Jazzmaster doesn't care for intonation. It's a real rebel.


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## Xardoniak (Jul 16, 2013)

I have a string through TOM on my Blackjack and I strum really hard, I have cuts in my bridge pup from the top string rubbing against it, so I dont think I would actually beable to play a lower bridge, lol.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 16, 2013)

Quick question as this seems to be an opportune time for it...

Is it possible to use a Hipshot style bridge on an archtop guitar?


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## morethan6 (Jul 16, 2013)

Difficult to see that working. Are you thinking of a string-through model?  

That would be a nightmare on a hollowbody, even if it had a big block. Plus the curvature of the body...bridge is flat....

No. No you can't. I just decided.


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## Señor Voorhees (Jul 16, 2013)

I have five guitars with TOM bridges. 2 string through and 3 stop bar. Perhaps it's because the guitar I learned on first had a TOM, but I prefer them. I like the string throughs better for aesthetics, but I find them both very comfortable/reliable. (intonation and such.)

Truth be told, even though there is obviously a difference in how they work, bridges in general make next to zero difference to my playing comfort.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Jul 16, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Quick question as this seems to be an opportune time for it...
> 
> Is it possible to use a Hipshot style bridge on an archtop guitar?



You'd have to carve out a flat surface for the Hipshot to sit on, because the Hipshot is completely flat from the backside.


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## Suitable (Jul 16, 2013)

Depending on your neck angle and how you carve it but yes it is possible to put a hipshot on an archtop. If you make the guitar from scratch you could easily put any bridge you like on it.

And on the TOM, I must have a dodgy gibby LP that was routed on a friday arvo  though I have recently modded it with a tonepro's locking bridge which has more room to intonate, Just haven't gone Ab with it yet... hmmm will try that today


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## Curt (Jul 16, 2013)

I like them on some guitars, but I have primarily been playing on trems since I picked up the guitar.


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## JP Universe (Jul 17, 2013)

Recessed 

Non recessed


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## sniperfreak223 (Jul 17, 2013)

well, personally I don't mind ToM's...but they are not the most comfortable bridge design to play, and thanks to my heavy palm muting and aggressive picking attack, I manage to bust open my palms on them a little more than I'd like to admit.


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## Robby the Robot (Jul 17, 2013)

I don't mind ToM's personally. Never been much of a trem guy, don't mind Gotoh/Hipshot bridges.


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## Shask (Jul 18, 2013)

Maybe I have been playing too long, but I can pretty much play on any bridge and it doesn't bother me. I have had many guitars with TOMs, and I can play them fine. I do notice the increased height, but I guess I adjust to it 

That being said, I think I want my guitars in the future to have a flat hardtail. I like TOMs, but I have always had a preference for Floyds in terms of flatness and palm muting. It seems like the hardtail is the best compromise for this if you don't want the actual trem.


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## chassless (Jul 18, 2013)

RTheodoppalus said:


> I don't mind ToM's personally. Never been much of a trem guy, don't mind Gotoh/Hipshot bridges.



so which are the bridges you _do _like ?


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## vstealth (Jul 18, 2013)

String buzz and other issues have always persisted with tom bridges in my experience, I just stick with floyds and kahlers now.


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## Robby the Robot (Jul 18, 2013)

chassless said:


> so which are the bridges you _do _like ?



Haha probably should've worded that better. I do like ToM's and Gotoh bridges. Never really been a fan of Floyd/Ibanez Edge type bridges.


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## DarkWolfXV (Jul 18, 2013)

I like TOMs

Unless you want your action LOWER THAN YOUR *F*UCKING FRETBOARD IS you will be fine with it. They look pretty nice, too.


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## endezeichengrimm (Jun 2, 2014)

*Yeah, they do suck.

The problem is that guitars with tunomatics, almost always have a neck angle tilted backwards. They are not parallel with the top of the guitar.

So you have to raise the tunomatic very high to get the correct action. This makes the bridge wobbly/unstable. You can hear and feel the difference it makes.

The better alternative is to use a Strat style hardtail bridge which can be adjusted better and is more stable. The hardtail also, doesn't leave any excess string exposed behind it.*
*
I would never buy a guitar with a tunomatic because they are a total waste of money. Even Floyd Rose Bridges come with a straight angle neck. *


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## chassless (Jun 2, 2014)

^  not to me. Actually it sounds to me like you've been playing badly set up ToM guitars, but i guess it could just be a matter of tastes

Also, nice necrobump!


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## tedtan (Jun 2, 2014)

Since this was bumped, I'll play. (And I think a few people here have mistaken correlation for causation ).

Gibson style guitars have a neck angle that tilts back away from the body, something that stems from their acoustic arch top guitars from the old big band jazz days before electric guitars were common, guitars like the L5. This necessitates the bridge (any bridge, be it a TOM, a Floyd, whatever) be raised higher to accommodate the neck.

Fender style guitars (including Ibanez, Carvin and many others) tend to have a neck parallel to the top of the guitar, so the bridge can sit much lower. This is why Carvin (and others) are able to recess the TOM into the body to reduce the height of the bridge. And this is probably more comfortable for people accustomed to playing this style of guitar.

As for the rattling some people experience, the Tone Pros bridge and the older Ibanez Gibralter II TOM bridge both had locking parts that prevent the bridge from rattling. So if you're having issues with this, look into a Tone Pros replacement TOM.


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## mnemonic (Jun 2, 2014)

endezeichengrimm said:


> *This makes the bridge wobbly/unstable. *


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