# Playing small shows with a very loud drummer, need advice as to not PO sound guy



## will_shred (Jul 21, 2013)

So, the other day I invited 6 of my friends over to see my band rehearse, we play hard rock/grunge and they all said we were awesome (which made my day) but everyone said the guitars were to loud. Now we had our amps turned up just enough so that we could clearly hear ourselves over our freaking drummer. I would like to be able to play quieter as to not make peoples ear's bleed, however whenever we ask our drummer to try and play a little softer he just says "bro I can't play quietly, I just can't" (he is a bit of a douche). We have a _small_ yet important (due to the venue having lots of weight in the area) gig coming up, our producer is going to be our sound guy. I don't want to be annoyingly loud but frankly I don't know what else to do so our mix doesn't sound like drums with noise in the backround.


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 21, 2013)

Has your drummer ever played with Hot Rods?


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## will_shred (Jul 21, 2013)

BigPhi84 said:


> Has your drummer ever played with Hot Rods?



what are those?


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 21, 2013)

will_shred said:


> what are those?



I guess not. 

Here's a link:
Pro-Mark Hot Rod Sticks | Musician&#39;s Friend


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## flo (Jul 21, 2013)

hot rods are indeed a bit quieter, but they have got a completely different feel to them compared to sticks, and sound different. So not every drummer likes them for every style. 
There are also various possibilities of dampening the drumkit, or using e-drums, but again, different sound, different feel.
Dampening can be done by for example putting a pillow/blanket into the bassdrum, and taping a folded tissue to the drumheads and/or underneath the cymbals. It takes some experimenting to find the right spots for the tape, usually close to the edge. It's very difficult to make drums more quiet without killing all the sound, since dampening mostly cuts out overtones.


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## larry (Jul 21, 2013)

I know what your drummer is 'saying'.. there's only so much he can do to alter his playing to lower his overall volume, unfortunately doing so will also alter the dynamics you all are accustomed to. aside from that, he can muffle individual pieces of his entire kit. though again, this will only do so much before the feel of it becomes less than desirable to him.

best bet imo, is to talk it over with him and get a good idea of how much cash he's got in comparison to how far he's willing to help alleviate the volume issue you guys have. you're right in that people need to be able to hear what you're playing in order to appreciate it. I bring up money because controlling live drums can get very expensive quickly. as part of your group, he should be willing to take responsibility and do his part to help you out.

sit him down and have a serious, open discussion about what options are available. e-kits have come a very long way to 'emulate' the proper feel, they can even be dialed in to help you develop a more consistent strike. superior basically did for drums what fractal has done for guitar modelers and when coupled with a great e-kit can be just as useful in a live setting. I've dealt with the live drum issue myself and my drummer refused to even consider an e-kit, so i designed an isolation booth. once I was finished with the plan and a solid budget was generated, we built the booth in roughly two years time. the end result cost around $17k, but the solution allowed us to play/record at home --infinitely.






the e-kit solution i'd discussed with my drummer would have run about $4k and provided the same functionality with the added bonus of being able to consistently control our sound at other venues. but, he had to have his live kit. weather one solution is better than the other is really up to your drummer's budget. 

so try to level with the guy about controlling stage levels and bring up:

purchasing mics for his kit, an outboard mixer, proper headphones or iem's, plexi shields and various dampening supplies for his whole kit. don't forget to take into consideration the portability of it all.

-or-

a comparable e-kit with a solid state laptop running superior, reaper and a small interface..

I loved being in a band and playing shows, but I do not miss volume debates. a lot of guys allow their pride to get hurt over attenuation..


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## jordanky (Jul 21, 2013)

Have him work on his finesse and dynamics; it's not rocket science that you don't have to Dave Grohl the shit out of your drums at all times. If he's not willing to work on making your band sound better overall, what's the point in keeping him around? I have played drums all my life, and being able to control your volume is something that takes practice, but is very doable and is a valuable facet to your drumming. If he is too stubborn to try, then give him the boot and get someone else who will put forth the effort to make your band sound as great as possible.


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## will_shred (Jul 21, 2013)

jordanky said:


> Have him work on his finesse and dynamics; it's not rocket science that you don't have to Dave Grohl the shit out of your drums at all times. If he's not willing to work on making your band sound better overall, what's the point in keeping him around? I have played drums all my life, and being able to control your volume is something that takes practice, but is very doable and is a valuable facet to your drumming. If he is too stubborn to try, then give him the boot and get someone else who will put forth the effort to make your band sound as great as possible.



Sometimes I really wish we could, he _is_ a douche bag. However he's our other guitar players brother and a founding member.


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## Hollowway (Jul 21, 2013)

Don't those plexiglass shields reduce the volume enough? 

Another question I have is whether he sounded too loud to the audience. I ask because you said that the audience said your guitars were too loud, meaning that the drums (to them) were not. So if that's the case, it's really more of a stage monitor issue than a drum issue. i.e. if the audience thinks you're too loud, lowering the drum volume in proportion to you is still going to leave you sounding too loud for the mix. So you and the other guitar player could face your amps in a different direction (like, get an angle amp stand to point them up at your ears), get some monitors to put at the front pointing back at you, or try doing some in ear things (plugs or monitors).


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## will_shred (Jul 21, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Don't those plexiglass shields reduce the volume enough?
> 
> Another question I have is whether he sounded too loud to the audience. I ask because you said that the audience said your guitars were too loud, meaning that the drums (to them) were not. So if that's the case, it's really more of a stage monitor issue than a drum issue. i.e. if the audience thinks you're too loud, lowering the drum volume in proportion to you is still going to leave you sounding too loud for the mix. So you and the other guitar player could face your amps in a different direction (like, get an angle amp stand to point them up at your ears), get some monitors to put at the front pointing back at you, or try doing some in ear things (plugs or monitors).




now that's a really good idea that I didn't think of, thanks very much.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 22, 2013)

get a drum shield...put him behind it...I get where your concerns are, and his. Imagine if you were playing your guitar or singing, but you could only do it with half the force you usually do....are you gonna get the same feel or the same tone? absolutely not! I've played with several drummers who don't necessarily lack dynamics, but the difference between quiet and loud is quite huge....just gotta deal or get an e-kit so you can control the volume.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 22, 2013)

All drummers aren't loud and obnoxious?


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## tedtan (Jul 22, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Another question I have is whether he sounded too loud to the audience. I ask because you said that the audience said your guitars were too loud, meaning that the drums (to them) were not.


 
This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP, but you ninja'd me! 

I've found that the typical approach we guitar players have is to set the amp on the floor pretty close to us and usually behind us pointing towards the audience. The problem with this is that you can't hear well in that situation - the volume blows by your legs instead of your ears. What ends up happening is that we almost always turn up too loud and dial in too much highs to compensate. So what the audience hears is very different from what we're hearing - loud and harsh.

The best solution is what Holloway said above: angle you speakers so you can hear them directly or get monitors that allow you to hear exactly what your amp sounds like and how loud it is. And for rehearsals and jams, you can often put the amp (or just the cab) across the room aimed at you and the band so you can hear better.

As for getting your drummer to play quieter, everyone has given some good advice, but Konfuzed nailed it. In fact, that's kind of the point of drummers in some of the styles of music we listen to here on the forums.


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## xCaptainx (Jul 25, 2013)

c'mon, SURELY a live music venue can accommodate a drummer hitting things? You're making a big deal out of nothing here. Set up as usual and work with the sound guy to unsure you have your guitars in your foldback. 

The soundguy will take care of the P.A sound. When's the last time you ever heard of a venue complaining that the DRUMMER plays too loudly? it's usually the guitarists turning their amps to 10! Have the cabs facing into the stage, from each side of it and let the sound dude control what goes out front. 

"problem' solved.

Plus as someone else said, the problem here is that your mates (in a completely different room, with no P.A I might add) said your guitars were too loud. So turn them down? work with the soundguy at the actual venue to ensure guitars are in the foldback.


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## scottro202 (Jul 29, 2013)

My drumming makes pit pulls scurry to the next room. I know what he's saying.

One solution is Lightning Rods/Hot Rods/Bundle sticks whatever the .... you wanna call them, which I've had drummers do with wonderful results. They are different, but if he gets used to em he'll be fine.

Maybe see if he can get a quieter kit. What I mean is, like. for instance, that same drummer used to play a Gretch Catalina Jazz kit. Then, he won a sweepstakes where he won the exact same Mapex kit Chris Penne plays with Coheed and Cambria. Guess what? Same drummer, but the Mapex kit was considerably, considerably louder. It ....ing shook his house. I wish I was kidding. 

Thinner sticks will get you somewhere if he uses thick sticks as it is. Maybe go for different heads, ones that won't resonate as much (overtones on a drum kit, especially if he likes to was his crashes an rides depending on the room can make it feel louder than it is, I've found). 

Good luck, I feel all of your pains


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## robare99 (Jul 29, 2013)

jordanky said:


> Have him work on his finesse and dynamics; it's not rocket science that you don't have to Dave Grohl the shit out of your drums at all times. If he's not willing to work on making your band sound better overall, what's the point in keeping him around? I have played drums all my life, and being able to control your volume is something that takes practice, but is very doable and is a valuable facet to your drumming. If he is too stubborn to try, then give him the boot and get someone else who will put forth the effort to make your band sound as great as possible.



This. 

As a professional, he should be able to play for the room.


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## WhiteWalls (Jul 29, 2013)

In my opinion your drummer is right, drums are the only instrument in a band that does NOT have a volume knob and you can't simply make him play softly if the music requires him to hit hard. If the audience thinks the guitars are too loud while you think they are too quiet, the problem is in the positioning of cabs, monitors etc. not in your drummer's style.

Plexiglass is a pretty good solution but they have to be very tall shields, otherwise you will be hearing cymbals way louder than the rest of the kit, but in general if a venue is not adequate for a rock/metal concert, then there should not be a rock/metal concert there.


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