# Review of the 39.5" quake bass



## Desecrated (Dec 2, 2007)

http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/downloads/BassGuitarQuakeReview.pdf

For those of you who don't know of Knuckle Guitar Works: 

Explore and inquire - Knuckle Guitar Works


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## sakeido (Dec 2, 2007)

39.5" scale and it only is set up for a low F#? You would think you could get a low Eb out of it. I don't know anything about basses though...  That is pretty neat.


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## Desecrated (Dec 2, 2007)

sakeido said:


> 39.5" scale and it only is set up for a low F#? You would think you could get a low Eb out of it. I don't know anything about basses though...  That is pretty neat.



I would love to see some tension measurements from that bass. I hope knuckle can post them here.


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## Universalis (Dec 2, 2007)

Nice basses. Since I signed up for this forum I discovered a lot of instruments builders that I never even heard of before. Those are pretty expensive anyway.


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## Apophis (Dec 3, 2007)

Sick bass


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## TomAwesome (Dec 3, 2007)

Neat! I want one.


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## Durero (Dec 3, 2007)

The builder is a member here and posts occasionally.

View Profile: knuckle_head

I'd absolutely love to try one of his basses.

Explore and inquire - Knuckle Guitar Works

And Cody I'm sure you could tune it to absolutely anything you want. It's got a significantly longer scale than Garry Goodman's Alders and JAQUO III-X's sub-contra basses and they tune to C#0 and lower.

I get the impression from that article that he's after clarity from his low B as much as extending the range lower. But he also posted somewhere here that he sent a bass to Dick from Meshuggah so that Dick could play F0 and octave below Meshuggah's 8 strings instead of in unison with them like he does currently.


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## Desecrated (Dec 3, 2007)

Durero said:


> But he also posted somewhere here that he sent a bass to Dick from Meshuggah so that Dick could play F0 and octave below Meshuggah's 8 strings instead of in unison with them like he does currently.



Cheesuz!! I missed that. I hope that will turn up on the new album.


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## Durero (Dec 3, 2007)

^


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## Apophis (Dec 3, 2007)

Durero said:


> But he also posted somewhere here that he sent a bass to Dick from Meshuggah so that Dick could play F0 and octave below Meshuggah's 8 strings instead of in unison with them like he does currently.


 
Where...
I want to hear that too


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## Eddie Loves You (Dec 3, 2007)

I think most people use them for standard tuning an octave lower, though I know there were talks about a 5 string that was going to be tuned an octave lower as well (low low low low B)


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## Desecrated (Dec 3, 2007)

Eddie Loves You said:


> I think most people use them for standard tuning an octave lower, though I know there were talks about a 5 string that was going to be tuned an octave lower as well (low low low low B)



the quake that tunes one octave below a normal is a 5-string, the other bass was a 6-string that should tune to low b or something, if i recall correct.


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## Apophis (Dec 3, 2007)

Notes frequencies:
Frequencies


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## Ishan (Dec 3, 2007)

With those you most likely rely on the first or second harmonic rather than the foundamental wich is not really necessary (the same goes with standard guitars, most of the time the foundamental is filtered in the lower range during the mix and it doesn't cause any problem)


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## Desecrated (Dec 3, 2007)

Ishan said:


> With those you most likely rely on the first or second harmonic rather than the foundamental wich is not really necessary (the same goes with standard guitars, most of the time the foundamental is filtered in the lower range during the mix and it doesn't cause any problem)



I think goodman posted something about this before. I know that he said that his instrument had the fundamental tone, and that you can train yourself to hear them or something like that.


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## MF_Kitten (Dec 3, 2007)

when i tune to low G, i always boost the fundamental frequencies, and it sounds great in the mix... the octaves between bass and guitar really separate nicely


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## TomAwesome (Dec 3, 2007)

Eddie Loves You said:


> ...there were talks about a 5 string that was going to be tuned an octave lower as well (low low low low B)



 Spasm for everybody!


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## Jongpil Yun (Dec 4, 2007)

Eddie Loves You said:


> I think most people use them for standard tuning an octave lower, though I know there were talks about a 5 string that was going to be tuned an octave lower as well (low low low low B)



Up next: A bass with robotic arms that grabs you and shakes you in a rhythmic fashion instead of trying to make any noise.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 4, 2007)




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## D-EJ915 (Dec 4, 2007)

Jongpil Yun said:


> Up next: A bass with robotic arms that grabs you and shakes you in a rhythmic fashion instead of trying to make any noise.


 it'd be like those vids on youtube


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## Desecrated (Dec 4, 2007)

Jongpil Yun said:


> Up next: A bass with robotic arms that grabs you and shakes you in a rhythmic fashion instead of trying to make any noise.



I'll buy 2, then attach one to my legs, and one to my arms, and have them shake me in different rhythms.


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## Apophis (Dec 4, 2007)

I would like to see that


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## Eddie Loves You (Dec 5, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> I think goodman posted something about this before. I know that he said that his instrument had the fundamental tone, and that you can train yourself to hear them or something like that.




I'm no biologist, but I'm certain you can't train yourself to hear frequencies above or below your natural range of hearing. 

I know you can diminish that range by damaging your ears, though.


Even though the listener can't necessarily hear the fundamental on these low notes, humans can psychoacoustically place what they are hearing as if they can. For example, one hears one of these really low notes but only really HEARS the 1st order harmonic; his mind, however, places it an octave lower. This is usually because of what came before it musically and information gathered from the timbre and overtones present in the note.


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## loneguitarist (Dec 7, 2007)

Eddie Loves You said:


> I'm no biologist, but I'm certain you can't train yourself to hear frequencies above or below your natural range of hearing.
> 
> I know you can diminish that range by damaging your ears, though.
> 
> ...



I think the idea is not that you are actually extending the range of your hearing (I think it's said that the human average is 20hz to 20khz), but training yourself to recognise notes which are lower than that 20hz which you don't naturally hear as notes, you hear them as a series of cycles. I tune to low C# on one of my basses and a few people have told me they hear no note, just a series of clicks. Garry Goodman demonstrates this in the video of the Bosendorfer piano with the low C0, a good way to compare is to generate a sine wave on your computer of a low pitch like 17.32hz (low C#) and listen to that, then listen to the note on a bass. The sine wave will probably be indistinguishable because it has no overtones and is just a pure fundamental. On my particular bass it is a lot easier to hear because it is quite harmonically rich. Garry Goodman said the fundamental was what you heard most on his bass and meant that you had to train yourself to recognise it without the overtones etc. not actually train yourself to overcome the limitations of human hearing.


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## zimbloth (Dec 7, 2007)

I wonder if Stretch Armstrong plays this model


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## Durero (Dec 7, 2007)

loneguitarist said:


> I think the idea is not that you are actually extending the range of your hearing (I think it's said that the human average is 20hz to 20khz), but training yourself to recognise notes which are lower than that 20hz which you don't naturally hear as notes, you hear them as a series of cycles. I tune to low C# on one of my basses and a few people have told me they hear no note, just a series of clicks. Garry Goodman demonstrates this in the video of the Bosendorfer piano with the low C0, a good way to compare is to generate a sine wave on your computer of a low pitch like 17.32hz (low C#) and listen to that, then listen to the note on a bass. The sine wave will probably be indistinguishable because it has no overtones and is just a pure fundamental. On my particular bass it is a lot easier to hear because it is quite harmonically rich. Garry Goodman said the fundamental was what you heard most on his bass and meant that you had to train yourself to recognise it without the overtones etc. not actually train yourself to overcome the limitations of human hearing.


 Garry was talking about improving pitch identification, which certainly can improve with training, rather than somehow being able to change your physiological hearing ability.


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## Jongpil Yun (Dec 7, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> I'll buy 2, then attach one to my legs, and one to my arms, and have them shake me in different rhythms.



That's the Meshuggah signature edition.


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## Ishan (Dec 8, 2007)

That low low low B foundamental is sure impossible to record, CDs are filtered to not go lower than 20Hz, that B is 15-16Hz  Overtones are a godsend


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## TomAwesome (Dec 8, 2007)

What about DVD audio or HDCDs or whatever it is that new level of higher resolution digital audio is called? Though yeah, most people will still have to get by with relying on overtones


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## Apophis (Dec 8, 2007)

Maybe some HD DVDs ??


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## Ishan (Dec 8, 2007)

Well no, even new standards clip below 20Hz. You can't hear those and you would need some enormous bass cab to feel them anyway so there's no point really


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## Desecrated (Dec 8, 2007)

Ishan said:


> Well no, even new standards clip below 20Hz. You can't hear those and you would need some enormous bass cab to feel them anyway so there's no point really



there are cabs that goes down to 5 hz


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## Ishan (Dec 8, 2007)

Yea but it's of use on live stages, not in your living room listening to music


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## Desecrated (Dec 8, 2007)

Ishan said:


> Yea but it's of use on live stages, not in your living room listening to music



there are some hifi systems that goes pretty low also. We just have to enforce our consumer right on behringer and have them make us a studio sub that goes down to 10hz 

V Speakers by Von Schweikert


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## Desecrated (Dec 8, 2007)

Headphones for the win:

Shopzilla - Find low prices on Audio Technica ATH-ANC7 Headphones in Electronics


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## Apophis (Dec 8, 2007)

Interesting finds Desecrated, thanks


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## Eddie Loves You (Dec 8, 2007)

loneguitarist said:


> I think the idea is not that you are actually extending the range of your hearing (I think it's said that the human average is 20hz to 20khz), but training yourself to recognise notes which are lower than that 20hz which you don't naturally hear as notes, you hear them as a series of cycles. I tune to low C# on one of my basses and a few people have told me they hear no note, just a series of clicks. Garry Goodman demonstrates this in the video of the Bosendorfer piano with the low C0, a good way to compare is to generate a sine wave on your computer of a low pitch like 17.32hz (low C#) and listen to that, then listen to the note on a bass. The sine wave will probably be indistinguishable because it has no overtones and is just a pure fundamental. On my particular bass it is a lot easier to hear because it is quite harmonically rich. Garry Goodman said the fundamental was what you heard most on his bass and meant that you had to train yourself to recognise it without the overtones etc. not actually train yourself to overcome the limitations of human hearing.





I already said all that stuff about hearing overtones, not the fundamental. I don't think you need train yourself to hear C0 as an octave lower than C1; it just happens naturally thanks to the properties of psychoacoustics.


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## ixlramp (Dec 11, 2007)

There's now a .335 gauge G#00 (13Hz) string in development (yes, the bass string below C#0) which apparently works well on a 40 inch scale. Should work well on Knuckle basses.


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## TomAwesome (Dec 11, 2007)

^


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## ibznorange (Dec 18, 2007)

ixlramp said:


> There's now a .335 gauge G#00 (13Hz) string in development (yes, the bass string below C#0) which apparently works well on a 40 inch scale. Should work well on Knuckle basses.



jesus shit!


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## bulb (Dec 18, 2007)

Durero said:


> But he also posted somewhere here that he sent a bass to Dick from Meshuggah so that Dick could play F0 and octave below Meshuggah's 8 strings instead of in unison with them like he does currently.



the reason why i think they wont do that is because basically dick run's his bass through almost they exact same tone that they use for guitars, so its very distorted and doesnt have a ton of low end, the lower you go the messier it sounds, i doubt there would be any audible frequencies over the distortion in that range if he went an octave lower, i may be wrong but i know that for my 8 string stuff i have to use a very clean bass tone to get it to cut through properly!


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## Durero (Dec 18, 2007)

Good point 
It would definitely be a change to their sound if they pushed the bass down an octave, and I'm sure you're right that the amount of distortion they use wouldn't be practical for such a low range.

Maybe they need two bass players with one tuned to F1 (distorted bass) and the other to F0 (clean bass)


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## Naren (Dec 18, 2007)

Very interesting review. I had no idea there were any basses with scales that long.


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## Jongpil Yun (Dec 18, 2007)

ixlramp said:


> There's now a .335 gauge G#00 (13Hz) string in development (yes, the bass string below C#0) which apparently works well on a 40 inch scale. Should work well on Knuckle basses.



What in the fuck? Seriously... what in the fuck. That's like a third of an inch. 13 hz? Rusty Cooley can pick more times in a second than that sound wave will cycle! Jesus!


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

...sorry for not keeping up with y'all.

I had the distinct pleasure of seeing Dick while they toured in support of Ministry (near everyone I knew was there for Meshuggah, but I digress). I had the chance to hand off a new string to him that he might get to have some fun with - a .250 that will put him an octave below a grand piano (A @ 13.75 Hz).

He isn't using his Quake for Meshuggah stuff. It isn't what the music calls for at the moment.

Someone suggested that the idea with a bass like this is for the clarity rather than the depth of tuning - that would indeed be the case. I personally needed A below B for music I was writing and found a detuned B seriously lacking in playability and tone. I've done way too much time in studios so I have little patience for things that don't work well.

I've worked up a prototype of a bass that you can actually go to a store and buy strings for - I find strings to be the biggest hinderance to the adoption of a beasty like the Quake. But it does its job pretty well.


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## Desecrated (May 5, 2008)

How did it go with making your own strings ???


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> How did it go with making your own strings ???



I wish I could take credit for the .250 I gave Dick - it was a La Bella that Yves Carbonne and I helped put together. They were a happy accident actually. Yves received strings from La Bella that they had mistakenly made to my length spec, so I got a bit lucky. 

My own strings are a ways off it seems. Garry is on a path to get his stuff up and running soon, though.


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## Desecrated (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> I wish I could take credit for the .250 I gave Dick - it was a La Bella that Yves Carbonne and I helped put together. They were a happy accident actually. Yves received strings from La Bella that they had mistakenly made to my length spec, so I got a bit lucky.
> 
> My own strings are a ways off it seems. Garry is on a path to get his stuff up and running soon, though.



Don't worry, your time will come


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## Durero (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> I've worked up a prototype of a bass that you can actually go to a store and buy strings for - I find strings to be the biggest hinderance to the adoption of a beasty like the Quake. But it does its job pretty well.


That's really interesting. What changes did you make to achieve this? Did you have to reduce the scale length? Or did you find that headstock / tuner & bridge placement / or headless tweaking was enough to reduce the required string length?

Man I'd really love to try one of your Quakes. Can you tell us about what amplification you play through?


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

Durero said:


> That's really interesting. What changes did you make to achieve this? Did you have to reduce the scale length? Or did you find that headstock / tuner & bridge placement / or headless tweaking was enough to reduce the required string length?
> 
> Man I'd really love to try one of your Quakes. Can you tell us about what amplification you play through?



The newer bass is 36" scale length. I have been working through off-the-rack methods for doing what I need to - it's quite the challenge.

I don't amplify at the moment. I have a Cafe Walter head phone amp and Sony studio cans. I am a power amp shy of jacking in, but I go as straight wire as I can. I use a Stewart 1/3 space preamp and my speakers are a 1x10/1x12 on top of a 15" sub. I made the speakers and it runs flat to about 19Hz.

I can hear what I'm doing at the moment but I am going to want to go flat much lower so an INFRA sub is in my near future.


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## Desecrated (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> The newer bass is 36" scale length. I have been working through off-the-rack methods for doing what I need to - it's quite the challenge.
> 
> I don't amplify at the moment. I have a Cafe Walter head phone amp and Sony studio cans. I am a power amp shy of jacking in, but I go as straight wire as I can. I use a Stewart 1/3 space preamp and my speakers are a 1x10/1x12 on top of a 15" sub. I made the speakers and it runs flat to about 19Hz.
> 
> I can hear what I'm doing at the moment but I am going to want to go flat much lower so an INFRA sub is in my near future.



is that a 5-string or a 4-string ?


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> is that a 5-string or a 4-string ?



Full stats; 36" fretless 4 string, maple/carbon neck, limba body, black garolyte (phenolic) fretboard, Nordstrand classic single coil Jazz pickups with volume/tone each, and Hipshot hardware.

I can link to a photo if you want to see.


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## Desecrated (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> Full stats; 36" fretless 4 string, maple/carbon neck, limba body, black garolyte (phenolic) fretboard, Nordstrand classic single coil Jazz pickups with volume/tone each, and Hipshot hardware.
> 
> I can link to a photo if you want to see.



We always want to see pictures !


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

'kay...


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## ibznorange (May 5, 2008)

dont care much for the headstock, but that thing is sex!


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## XEN (May 5, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> dont care much for the headstock, but that thing is sex!


Amen to that! I do "get" the headstock though, so I'm quite OK with it. The body however is quite nice!!


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## vansinn (May 5, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> there are some hifi systems that goes pretty low also. We just have to enforce our consumer right on behringer and have them make us a studio sub that goes down to 10hz
> 
> V Speakers by Von Schweikert



Well.. at 10 hz the wavelength is ~44 meters / ~133 feet! Even if we build our living/musicroom as a 1/4 wave resonator device, those are quite interesting properties for reproducing that low bass 
My livingroom is 6 meters / 9 feet long, so I can reproduce ~57 hz; anything below will never be more than partly reproduced.


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## Ishan (May 5, 2008)

Fretless? mmmm I love it !


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## Snorelax (May 5, 2008)

That is one sexy beast of a bass.


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## knuckle_head (May 5, 2008)

vansinn said:


> Well.. at 10 hz the wavelength is ~44 meters / ~133 feet! Even if we build our living/musicroom as a 1/4 wave resonator device, those are quite interesting properties for reproducing that low bass
> My livingroom is 6 meters / 9 feet long, so I can reproduce ~57 hz; anything below will never be more than partly reproduced.



Ideally you have a room that is absolutely non-resonant. In that way everything presented will be equally presented or impared/impeded.


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## Desecrated (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> 'kay...



O Sweet ramen of fret access!, I need new pants.


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## Hcash (May 5, 2008)

Beautiful. Love the output jack too...


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## Trespass (May 5, 2008)

Thats definitely kick ass!


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## Durero (May 5, 2008)

vansinn said:


> My livingroom is 6 meters / 9 feet long, so I can reproduce ~57 hz; anything below will never be more than partly reproduced.


That's a fundamental misunderstanding of sound wave behavior I believe. 

As knucklehead said, having your room resonate at a particular frequency is a very undesirable characteristic - because all the notes at that frequency as well as multiples of that frequency will be much louder than others and so distort the balance of the music.

Any frequency can be fully reproduced in your livingroom as long as your speakers are capable of vibrating at that frequency. Wether or not a complete wavelength cycle can fit within the dimensions of your room is not relevant.


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## Durero (May 5, 2008)

knuckle_head said:


> 'kay...



That's really beautiful!

Do you have any sound clips of your instruments?


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## Trespass (May 6, 2008)

Could anyone send me clips of a real sub-contra bass thats properly cab'd? I don't really care which make.


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## Desecrated (May 6, 2008)

Trespass said:


> Could anyone send me clips of a real sub-contra bass thats properly cab'd? I don't really care which make.




MySpace.com - Garry Goodman - LOS ANGELES, California - Jazz / Rock / Funk - www.myspace.com/garrygoodman
MySpace.com - JAUQO III-X - CHICAGO, Illinois - Funk / Jazz / Progressive - www.myspace.com/jauqoiiix 
MySpace.com - AL CALDWELL JAZZ - NY/STL/NASHVILLE/LA - Nu-Jazz / Funk / Jazz - www.myspace.com/bassbooty
MySpace.com - Stew McKinsey - Forest Falls, California - Funk / Experimental / Jazz - www.myspace.com/stewmckinsey
MySpace.com - Jean Baudin - PALO ALTO, California - Metal / Ambient / Experimental - www.myspace.com/jeanbaudin
MySpace.com - Yves Carbonne - Soul / Jazz / Experimental - www.myspace.com/yvescarbonne


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## Durero (May 6, 2008)

I'd recommend JAUQO's album


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## vansinn (May 6, 2008)

Durero said:


> That's a fundamental misunderstanding of sound wave behavior I believe.
> 
> As knucklehead said, having your room resonate at a particular frequency is a very undesirable characteristic - because all the notes at that frequency as well as multiples of that frequency will be much louder than others and so distort the balance of the music.
> 
> Any frequency can be fully reproduced in your livingroom as long as your speakers are capable of vibrating at that frequency. Wether or not a complete wavelength cycle can fit within the dimensions of your room is not relevant.



Well, I was kinda making a Bit'o'fun with those low freqs  -it _is_ somewhat radical for most practical home setups..
I'm right about sound reinforcing my ceiling and some problematic wall to avoid having to listen to the two rhinos upstairs walking around for hours, as if they're on steroids or stress hormones - and to actually be able to play my axes a bit. Maybe I should have one of those low-freq-riders to shake 'm up a Bit 

Yo, knucklehead, seems like you're using the relatively new Hipshot individual string-through-body 5A100C bridges, right?
If so, I was wondering if those may be shortened in case one doesn't need the quick release topload dropslot?
Which alloy, aluminum?


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## knuckle_head (May 7, 2008)

vansinn said:


> Yo, knucklehead, seems like you're using the relatively new Hipshot individual string-through-body 5A100C bridges, right?
> If so, I was wondering if those may be shortened in case one doesn't need the quick release topload dropslot?
> Which alloy, aluminum?



The individual string bridges I use are the ABM bridges out of Germany. They're easier to install than the Hipshots and don't allow for through body stringing. It takes more string length to go through the body than it does to top load (which is primarily why I use the originals) and as long as the bridge is firmly affixed to the top of your bass (I inset mine presently) there's negligible difference in tone.

Mine are plated brass.


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