# Playing super tight: Where to start?



## InAbsentia_ (Nov 14, 2010)

Where or rather how should I start with trying to play really tight rhythm guitar? I'm mainly talking about gallops, stuff like that. For example, the guitars on Soilwork's The Panic Broadcast tight.

Any tips etc. would be very welcome.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 14, 2010)

Practice. 

That's really all there is to it. Start spending an hour or two, or even three or four a day just practicing that aspect of playing. Just when you'll start to get really sick of it, you'll show significant progress and that'll make it all worth it.


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## InAbsentia_ (Nov 14, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Practice.
> 
> That's really all there is to it. Start spending an hour or two, or even three or four a day just practicing that aspect of playing. Just when you'll start to get really sick of it, you'll show significant progress and that'll make it all worth it.



Thanks for that, I tried that for a couple of hours today and by the end of it I felt like I was going nowhere. What should I practice though? Any recommendations?


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## SirMyghin (Nov 14, 2010)

If you want to play specific things, find a riff that exemplifies it and play it really freaking slow to a metronome. Play it at least 5 times flawlessly. Increase speed. This is good for learning the movements and getting muscle memory

You may eventually reach a point you can no longer play it well, it seems too fast. Then increase the speed a good bunch (15-20 bpm) and struggle through, try your hardest to keep it going. Turn speed back down to bench mark stuck point and try again, it should feel much easier.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 14, 2010)

InAbsentia_ said:


> Thanks for that, I tried that for a couple of hours today and by the end of it I felt like I was going nowhere. What should I practice though? Any recommendations?



I mean play for hours a day for weeks, and months. You're not going to see progress for some time. That's why you have to push yourself to stay with it. 

As for what to practice, just like SirMyghin suggested, practice a riff or song that signifies what you want to get better at.


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## GJaunz (Nov 14, 2010)

I think working with a metronome or drum machine (way more fun) is the best way to go for practicing rhythm parts and getting them super tight. I always write the drum part in Cubase (my recording software) before I lay down my rhythm guitar parts. When you record your guitar parts to the midi triggered drums, you'll know it right away when you're timing is off, and you can bet it's not the drummer! Another thing that helped me is to try to play rhythm guitar parts slightly late. Many guitarists (myself for sure), tend to pull ahead of the beat, so if you aim to be a tiny bit late, it'll actually come out right on time.


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## Lon (Nov 14, 2010)

cover periphery songs and record yourself playing it with a decent sequencer, as soon as you do not hear your own playing sticking out of the record anymore: you're acceptably tight ^^

advanced version: meshuggah


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## DanielKRego (Nov 15, 2010)

Like what everyone else here has already said, practise, and with a metronome. When you feel you can nail a phrase accurately, cleanly and with the right dynamics and feel, bump the metronome up by 5 BPM and have a go.

If we're talking metal rhythm specifically, most of the time it's profitable to use downpicking as much as possible. Really tightens up riffs and gives them a consistent, even and downright pulverizing dynamic. Of course, this isn't always physically possible and you'll often want the feel of alternate picking instead. But when it sounds better and is physically possible, always opt for downpicking.

Also, I see a lot of my students approaching heavy riffing, especially powerchords and palm muted parts with the force coming from the elbow or arm, assuming it offers more 'power'. Ironically, the real tight and taut feel that you'd probably want comes more from the tight 'whip and snap' of a strong and fast wrist. The arm or elbow will offer more 'blunt force', while the wrist is more like a knife-edge attack. Sharp, quick and tight. It's all in the wrist, I can't emphasise this enough. But this is just my method, perhaps you may find this not working for you or your opinion on this may differ.


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## EcoliUVA (Nov 15, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I mean play for hours a day for weeks, and months. You're not going to see progress for some time. That's why you have to push yourself to stay with it.


 
You listen to Max. You listen good.

This is a lesson I wish I had learned 10 years ago. But I didn't have Max. You do.

You have to train your brain and body. There are physiological changes that occur when you're learning or improving on the guitar. Nerve paths change and optimize.

Just be damn careful not to strain something. Watch your tension. Nothing like a repetitive strain injury to kill your learning buzz.


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## InAbsentia_ (Nov 15, 2010)

EcoliUVA said:


> You listen to Max. You listen good.
> 
> This is a lesson I wish I had learned 10 years ago. But I didn't have Max. You do.
> 
> ...



I'm playing pretty thick strings, after about 20 minutes of more or less constant chugging I get a pain in my shoulder (deltoid muscle) and the muscle right next to your thumb (ball shaped one). Is that normal?

And yes, Max's advice is awesome!


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## Maniacal (Nov 15, 2010)

I work on:
timing and subdivision exercises
pick hand endurance exercises
pick hand speed exercises
coordination exercises
and finally riffs, starting off slow then trying to play them as quickly as possible


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## SirMyghin (Nov 15, 2010)

InAbsentia_ said:


> I'm playing pretty thick strings, after about 20 minutes of more or less constant chugging I get a pain in my shoulder (deltoid muscle) and the muscle right next to your thumb (ball shaped one). Is that normal?
> 
> And yes, Max's advice is awesome!




You should never get shoulder pain playing. Picking should come from your wrist, not your arm. You are moving too much, and will increase chance of injury and decrease accuracy picking with your arm. Muscles will tighten up and cramp, stop when they do, massage them, stretch them etc. Do not grip the pick or neck heavily, you should be relaxed, even when fretting notes. Don't push any harder than you need to to make the note sound with your fretting hand either. 

Develop a light and relaxed style of playing (even when playing 'teh brootz') and you will be doing yourself a favour in the long run. You will have to correct all this later otherwise. You are also faster when you are not tense.


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## Daggorath (Nov 15, 2010)

Record yourself with double or quad tracks. Honestly, it'll help you to see your weaknesses far clearer. Practice different groupings, to get the muscle memory for it, and then it's just a case of stringing them together. Try 3s, 4s, 5s, 7s etc.


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## Cabinet (Nov 17, 2010)

Lamb of God have some really right rhythm playing, they can give you plenty of ideas and things to work on to develop a really tight technique.

What I hear a lot with really tight rhythm playing are little notes in between some of the more 'presentable' things you might hear.

Take the riff from Ashes of the Wake at the very beginning as an example.

E|-------------------------------------
B|-------------------------------------
G|-------------------------------------
D|-------------------------------------
A|-------------4-5-7-8-7-5-----------
D|--000--0-------------------0--000-

If you played that riff without that one pluck of the low D string, you'd have the triplet, melody, triplet, with none of those single plucks. To me, those in between notes make it sound much better as a whole.


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## Evil7 (Nov 17, 2010)

Really focus on your picking hand.. Dont let the pick fall through the strings much. Use the tip of the pick.

If you are playing fast, try to decrese the range of motion. ie: if you are tremolo/grind picking one string, the farther your pick goes past the string the longer it will take to hit the string again. 

Experiment with palm muting close to the bridge and higher up towards the pickups .. you get different tightness of palm mutes.. 

Noise gate for metal REALLY tightens shit up.


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## right_to_rage (Nov 17, 2010)

Practicing slow is one of the most important things for me to remember to do. Cut the tempo in half and really try to lock in with the click, or even better a drum machine. Also, recording is sooooo important!!! Record the part a couple of times, and then listen back to it all very critically. You could even take notes to point out mistakes; 0:10 dead note, 0:14 too sloppy, 0:52 missed a beat, ect. 

I have done that a lot where i think i've played a riff perfectly, then listen back and hear like 10 mistakes in a matter of 10 seconds lol.
I also say that you should focus on nailing the groove of the rhythm too, no matter how complex it gets. Look at the boys in sikth, you know when dan loord is playing a 16th note double bass line because he nails it with soo much groove. Playing tight, and grooving is all about falling into the beat and streamlining your movements to match the rhythms.


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## InAbsentia_ (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm trying to incorporate all of this into my playing and I'm practicing at least an hour a day to a click/GP5.

One thing though, it seems like there's something *fundamentally* wrong with my picking which is exacerbated on the E string. When I'm picking (especially when it's fast/hard) I tend to anchor my pinky on the high E for support. Is this normal or is it something that should be avoided? I don't do this when picking any other string except the E, and occasionally the A. I don't know why, it just happens automatically.

I tried closing my hand into a fist, but my fingers get grated by the strings then when I palm mute.


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