# Ibanez Prestige vs ESP E-ii (vs??)



## MetalHex (Apr 1, 2019)

I'm really jonesing to get a new guitar. This is all kinda hypothetical but also kinda serious.

- I've never owned a guitar that was over $800 brand new. 
- I've played my buddies M-ii bolt on a couple years back and it felt like heaven. (Maybe due to my lack of experience with more expensive guitars?) Also not sure if it was an e-ii or not.
- The new one I really drool over is the black fade burl top with BKP aftermath pickups.
- The problem is that one is like $2200 
- I wouldnt be comfortable spending over $2k 
- I could always buy used i suppose?
- I dont want a floyd rose.
- I think Ibanez prestige is cheaper than that brand new?
- how does the quality of the prestige RG's compare to ESP E-ii?
- funny thing is I've always hated Ibanez. Never played one that I got along with. (Maybe because cheap bottom row guitar center models? Idk) but for some odd reason, they're starting to appeal to me as of lately. 
- I reckon to stay away from Iron Label apparently? But the white fade one for $899. Is hot
- I never cared for super thin necks in the past. Maybe that could change in the way that one can develop a taste for certain vegetables as they get older, haha.
- I see alot of praise for Charvels, though I dont see too many, and not sure which tiers are better quality.
- Caparisons are sexy as hell but have yet to spot one in the wild here in the states. As far as im concerned, they simply do not exist and its all an illusion.
- I really like the number $1500 for some reason, but I could go up or down for the right one.
- I play mainly metal. 
Dont care about pickups but it has to be HH only

Sorry for the very vague post but I suppose I am looking to be swayed in one way or another to feul my GAS for a new guitar thats giving me a sort of dopamine rush just thinking about it!


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 1, 2019)

Sounds like a used MII is the safest bet.


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## AdenM (Apr 1, 2019)

If you're not willing to pay new prices, there are plenty of ESP Standard or LTD Elite models in great condition out there used in the $800 - $2000 range. Both lines are the predecessor to the E-II series, still made in Japan and all that jazz. I'd try and find a Horizon NT of some sort. 

Not liking thin necks/Ibanez isn't worth dropping on a Prestige IMO, and anything that isn't Prestige money isn't really worth the trouble with ESP as a second option.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Apr 1, 2019)

used market would def be your best bet for money savings

cant go wrong with esp...


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## angl2k (Apr 1, 2019)

See if you can find a used ESP (not E-II) Horizon, they're awesome. Some M-II have fixed TOM bridges too but they're rare.

Having owned a prestige they are the same build quality as my MIJ ESPs, flawless finish, good fretwork etc. The ibby didn't have neck binding but the fretwork was good. Rumor has it some newer prestiges without neck binding have rougher fret edges.

Haven't played any E-II though so can't comment on that.


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## AlmaMater (Apr 1, 2019)

Having own prestige's & J Customs I would definitely go for ESP. I even prefer LTD (400 series and up) over a Prestige.
Just personal preference. I prefer the thin U neck on the ESP rather the Ibanez wizard neck and also ESP usually comes stock with everything I like (Ebony freetboard, EMGs [Yes I like them] Pickup configuration H-H, fixed bridge [TOM] <-- usually on Horizon, Eclipse)
Try to test them at a local store.
But I would also suggest to buy one used, you can find great deals.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Apr 1, 2019)

I always stump for Ibanez but in this case you're probably best going for a used M-II like Max said. You already know you like that guitar and you know what you're getting into.
I'm sure you'd dig the Ibanez too, but it's a lot easier to drop that kind of cash on a known quantity.

That said, my impression is that ESP and Ibanez are mostly interchangeable, their quality tiers match each other very closely, they pursue similar styles and aesthetic, go after the same market, and both have comparable build quality to one another. I don't think a Prestige Ibanez is going to be any "better" than an E-II or vice versa- it's going to come down to whichever guitar you're more excited about. 

Shoutout to the LTD Elites as well- you may be able to find a great deal on a used LTD Elite as from my understanding, those are basically just E-IIs with a different branding. The LTD labeling turned a lot of people off and they tend to go for less than their ESP / E-II counterparts.


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## canuck brian (Apr 1, 2019)

Find an older ESP or an older (like WAY older) Ibanez. 

I picked up a used ESP maverick for under 200 bucks.


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## Mathemagician (Apr 1, 2019)

Buy used, I prefer ESP’s neck shape, size and nut width. But for a first good guitar anything will feel awesome.


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## feraledge (Apr 1, 2019)

First off, there are always ways to get deals on new guitars. 15% off is pretty easy to swing with some of the big dogs in particular, in which case, the MII you're talking about will be under $1900. That's still expensive, but you can sell that BKP set and swap something else in and drop the total down a bit more. 
It'll be a sick guitar, no doubt. 
I think a used MII is a good way to go. Just so you know, the older bolt on MIIs are extra thin flat neck profiles, which is as close to Ibanez slim necks that ESP gets. The neck thru models are extra thin U, which I personally prefer over the flat. Once the LTD Elite MII came in, they switched to thin U and that's what's on the EIIs as well. 
If you dip back to the 90s stuff, you'll get some remarkable guitars and often really cheap. One thing to be aware of, the early 90s Sinclair trems can't have a Floyd dropped in. I know you said you don't want a Floyd, but in case you decide to make that an option, it's worth knowing. 
Another vote for the Horizon. The 90s bolt on models are amazing, but you should be able to get most of these guitars for $900 or less, if you're patient and looking. If $1500 is your magic number, that means you'll have $600 left over to buy a used Charvel. They're very different guitars, but both great. 
In terms of the current Charvel lines: Pro Mods are made in Mexico and are excellent. USA Select is kind of a heritage line. Then USA Custom Shop. They've got the Pro Mods on lock.


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## MetalHex (Apr 1, 2019)

Yeah ive been leaning towards esp perhaps I can look at LTD elite since its on par with the E-ii....what are the differences really? Do the LTD's still have that abalone binding on everything? I will go take a look anywho


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## Humbuck (Apr 1, 2019)

Hold out for an ESP... You'll get an awesome guitar.


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## MetalHex (Apr 1, 2019)

Humbuck said:


> Hold out for an ESP... You'll get an awesome guitar.


Like an ESP ESP?? Lol


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## MetalHex (Apr 1, 2019)

Also is LTD Elite just the 1000+ series? Or Is there an actual LTD Elite line?

Edit, nevermind I see LTD Elite on the ESP webpage, but they all say that there are currently no products to show??


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## JD27 (Apr 1, 2019)

It was meant to replace the Standard Series, but was renamed E-II after one year of production. At this point they are only available used.


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## feraledge (Apr 2, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Also is LTD Elite just the 1000+ series? Or Is there an actual LTD Elite line?
> 
> Edit, nevermind I see LTD Elite on the ESP webpage, but they all say that there are currently no products to show??


You're mixing LTD Elite, which was ESP Standard Series = LTD Elite (one year) = EII, with LTD Deluxe, which is the 1000 series. 
For a second there, the LTD Elites were tanked on price, but they're total sleeper guitars and everyone who has owned them knows it. So the pricing is typically closer to ESP SS guitars these days.


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## MetalHex (Apr 2, 2019)

feraledge said:


> You're mixing LTD Elite, which was ESP Standard Series = LTD Elite (one year) = EII, with LTD Deluxe, which is the 1000 series.
> For a second there, the LTD Elites were tanked on price, but they're total sleeper guitars and everyone who has owned them knows it. So the pricing is typically closer to ESP SS guitars these days.


Ok so my next question is how much lower in quality is the LTD deluxe from the elite/eii?

I want a non-floyd, non evertune guitar that will stay in tune the best and im looking mainly at anything under the ESP umbrella. I think that is the most sensible attribute (tuning stability) to ask for since everything else is arbitrary (i,e what kind of pickups they come with, neck shape, what kind of bridge).

.......yeah, but will it stay in tune?? (and is that solely dependant on what kind of tuners are used...)


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## feraledge (Apr 2, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Ok so my next question is how much lower in quality is the LTD deluxe from the elite/eii?
> 
> I want a non-floyd, non evertune guitar that will stay in tune the best and im looking mainly at anything under the ESP umbrella. I think that is the most sensible attribute (tuning stability) to ask for since everything else is arbitrary (i,e what kind of pickups they come with, neck shape, what kind of bridge).
> 
> .......yeah, but will it stay in tune?? (and is that solely dependant on what kind of tuners are used...)


Interesting, tuning stability is as variable as any other part. If you have a good nut with lubricant or graphite on it, locking tuners and a solid bridge, you should be good to go. If you're that concerned that you'd put that above every other spec on the guitar, then you should probably look at Floyds and Evertune, the best non-locking bridge still won't have much on that. 
LTD Deluxes are fine guitars. They'll get the job done and serve you well. EIIs are excellent guitars. I'll put it this way, I have nothing bad to say about the LTDs, but you'll notice a difference immediately between the two lines, which you should. 
Also, LTD Deluxes actually have some nicer features that the EII line is really just coming around on: locking tuners and bridges namely. Nut on EIIs is bone versus molded plastic on the LTD Deluxe, but you should be able to get a graphtech nut installed by a tech for probably $40-60.


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## MetalHex (Apr 2, 2019)

feraledge said:


> Interesting, tuning stability is as variable as any other part. If you have a good nut with lubricant or graphite on it, locking tuners and a solid bridge, you should be good to go. If you're that concerned that you'd put that above every other spec on the guitar, then you should probably look at Floyds and Evertune, the best non-locking bridge still won't have much on that.
> LTD Deluxes are fine guitars. They'll get the job done and serve you well. EIIs are excellent guitars. I'll put it this way, I have nothing bad to say about the LTDs, but you'll notice a difference immediately between the two lines, which you should.
> Also, LTD Deluxes actually have some nicer features that the EII line is really just coming around on: locking tuners and bridges namely. Nut on EIIs is bone versus molded plastic on the LTD Deluxe, but you should be able to get a graphtech nut installed by a tech for probably $40-60.


Ok that was pretty helpful, thanks.

But I was under the impression that its not important what the material of nut is....it could be plastic.....what matters is if it's cut properly...?

Anywho, I think the most expensive LTD's are around $1000, and then the eii's are several hundred dollars higher. (If I'm not mistaken). So i would have to compare the specs side by side, but hopefully more people canchime in with experience with these different tiers.


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## Spicypickles (Apr 2, 2019)

Nut material definitely matters, but they all need to be properly cut for sure. Getting a graph tech will be more than worth it if you find a fairly reputable tech to install it.


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## Andromalia (Apr 2, 2019)

Standard ESPs are overall way superior to a run of the mill prestige Ibanez. Prestiges are all over the price chart so their quality actually varies. They are good guitars but Standard ESP is one step above. I'd rate the Prestige Ibanez as LTD 1000s in term of quality feeling. I don't want to drop my Standard Viper because I don't want a hole in my floor. All ESPs I've had have this "solid" feeling that I found nowhere else except in my 2016 limited flying V. I've also owned a few prestige and sold all of them except one that nobody wants to buy except at rock bottom prices so I'm keeping it.
It seems like I'm dissing Prestiges but they're still good, ESP is just superior. The only reason to buy a Prestige is if you specifically want an Ibanez neck profile or Ibanez Edge-whatever tremolo. That's something that you won't find anywhere else.
About where to buy, scour ebay, reverb and other sites, there are good deals to be had but they are getting scarcer since just having ESP on the headstock brings on a premium nowadays since the EII rebranding.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Apr 2, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Ok that was pretty helpful, thanks.
> 
> But I was under the impression that its not important what the material of nut is....it could be plastic.....what matters is if it's cut properly...?
> 
> Anywho, I think the most expensive LTD's are around $1000, and then the eii's are several hundred dollars higher. (If I'm not mistaken). So i would have to compare the specs side by side, but hopefully more people canchime in with experience with these different tiers.



LTD Deluxes are great guitars, no question. You get good (or great) hardware and features, and a good quality build. An LTD Deluxe will do anything you want it to do--tour, studio, jamming. An LTD Deluxe will stay in tune, perform well, and feel really good.
However, once you move to an ESP Standard Series or newer E-II series guitar you're getting a premium instrument. You're getting better quality materials (woods) and tuners. You're getting more attention to detail, and better workmanship. Nicer fretwork as well. Necks also feel nicer (nicely rounded edges, etc.). I found E-II's always have a really nice weight and great overall balance (some LTD Deluxes have this too, but are less likely to be as nice in this regard).

In my opinion, if you have $1500-1800 to spend then get an E-II (new or used).


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## MetalHex (Apr 3, 2019)

All posts have been helpful, especially the last two.

Would ordering a brand new eii be a safe bet as far as consistency? If i play a used eii at a store and love it and think its perfect, would a brand new delivered one be very much the same on great quality and craftsmanship? (obviously it might not be setup the same way out of the box, etc..)

As opposed to ordering an LTD Deluxe might be a hit or miss kind of deal?

I know try before you buy, but i dont see too many eii's in stores.

Oh and one more thing. That blinding abalone binding on the LTD's!! Haha, seriously though, I dont hate it like alot of people do. I think they would look better without it perhaps, but its not a deal breaker. Also the 12th fret inlays are not a deal breaker.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 3, 2019)

Andromalia said:


> Prestiges are all over the price chart so their quality actually varies.



That's not accurate. 

All Ibanez Prestige models are built in the same shop, on the same machines, with the same tools by the same people. A $1000 RG550 is built right along side a $1900 RGR5220. 

The only difference, and what drives up the price, are the specs. 

The only MIJ models to get more attention to detail are Signature series instruments (even if it says Prestige on the headstock) and J.Customs.



MetalHex said:


> All posts have been helpful, especially the last two.
> 
> Would ordering a brand new eii be a safe bet as far as consistency? If i play a used eii at a store and love it and think its perfect, would a brand new delivered one be very much the same on great quality and craftsmanship? (obviously it might not be setup the same way out of the box, etc..)
> 
> ...



From what I've played, the current E-II stuff is very consistent from guitar to guitar. I wouldn't hesitate ordering one sight unseen from a reputable dealer.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Apr 3, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> All posts have been helpful, especially the last two.
> 
> Would ordering a brand new eii be a safe bet as far as consistency? If i play a used eii at a store and love it and think its perfect, would a brand new delivered one be very much the same on great quality and craftsmanship? (obviously it might not be setup the same way out of the box, etc..)
> 
> ...



As MaxofMetal said, E-II's are a safe bet in terms of consistency. In reality, LTD Deluxes in my experience are going to be consistently good as well, although again, the build quality and attention to details are still overall higher on E-II's. 

Most models LTD and E-II no longer have abalone (but a few still do). The only lines now with a 12th fret inlay are E-II's (with the ESP logo). LTD's no longer have a 12th fret inlay.


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## feraledge (Apr 3, 2019)

There was a period of huge inconsistency when WMI was in disarray. The 40th anniversary LTDs, for example, that I played all had massive necks. Very out of character. Outside of that, I wouldn't hesitate to order an LTD Deluxe sight unseen, but I especially wouldn't think twice about an EII. I had one with some issues early on, but I've owned so many ESP SS/LTD Elites/EIIs at this point that it's hard to say that's indicative of anything. And in reality, the frets needed some work and there were a few parts of the binding that were taped off and cleaned up badly during staining. That's not a lemon by any stretch.


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## MetalHex (Apr 5, 2019)

Does anyone know whats the difference between a Horizon and an Mii?


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## Shoeless_jose (Apr 6, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Does anyone know whats the difference between a Horizon and an Mii?



horizon is arch top is biggest difference, sure there are other differences too like knob placement and what bridge configurations you can get.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 6, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I always stump for Ibanez but in this case you're probably best going for a used M-II like Max said. You already know you like that guitar and you know what you're getting into.
> I'm sure you'd dig the Ibanez too, but it's a lot easier to drop that kind of cash on a known quantity.
> 
> That said, my impression is that ESP and Ibanez are mostly interchangeable, their quality tiers match each other very closely, they pursue similar styles and aesthetic, go after the same market, and both have comparable build quality to one another. I don't think a Prestige Ibanez is going to be any "better" than an E-II or vice versa- it's going to come down to whichever guitar you're more excited about.
> ...



The issue is whether you want to pay 2000 bucks for an E-II new, or just try to find one of the Genesis RG521s with the hard tail.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 6, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The only MIJ models to get more attention to detail are Signature series instruments (even if it says Prestige on the headstock) and J.Customs.



Or the AZ prestiges with stainless frets and all.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 6, 2019)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Or the AZ prestiges with stainless frets and all.



Not really. They have fancier spec sheets, but they're still made alongside everything else.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 6, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. They have fancier spec sheets, but they're still made alongside everything else.



i was speaking to the specs. i know where the fujigen factory is here, i know all of their guitars are made at the same place.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 6, 2019)

MatiasTolkki said:


> i was speaking to the specs. i know where the fujigen factory is here, i know all of their guitars are made at the same place.



Attention to detail =/= Specs.


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## AlmaMater (Apr 6, 2019)

Dineley said:


> horizon is arch top is biggest difference, sure there are other differences too like knob placement and what bridge configurations you can get.



Also the neck shape is different, MII is more flat and wide while the Horizon is more rounded/narrow. The volume knob placement on the MII for me at least is too close to the pickup/bridge. Also the neck finish on the MII is Poly and the Horizon is glossy (At least the ones I have owned. I think the Camo is satin) But again, personal preferences.

I would love to see an MII with a neck profle and control layout of the Horizon (flat body and poly neck.)


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## gujukal (Apr 8, 2019)

Nothing beats the neck of a prestige rg, but esp or Ltd deluxe feels a bit more solid from my experiences.


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## canuck brian (Apr 8, 2019)

gujukal said:


> Nothing beats the neck of a prestige rg



Except a 90's block heel RG.


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## Viginez (Apr 8, 2019)

gujukal said:


> Nothing beats the neck of a prestige rg


i especially like the older narrower wizard necks. if someone likes thin necks, there isn't anything like it. very addictive.
aren't most esp's neck thru? those will always feel a bit more solid/different than a bolt on, like most rg's.
also rg's are mostly basswood bodies and will feel a bit lightweight/"cheap" compared to alder/mahagony-bodied esp's.


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## MetalHex (Apr 8, 2019)

I dont know if i have a favorite neck. I dont know if i have a favorite anything except for aesthetics. I kinda just adapt to everything and get used to it. But in the past Ive hated real thin necks that felt like a slab of plywood with strings on it. Typically most Ibanez I've tried


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## Mathemagician (Apr 8, 2019)

The E-II stuff is absolute quality.


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## Cynicanal (Apr 8, 2019)

Leaving aside build quality for a second (E-II wins here, but not by a whole lot IME), both guitars are going to feel entirely different. ESP necks have a slightly narrower-than-normal string spacing, gloss-painted backs aside from certain signature models, and, in my experience, even their "thin U" necks are slightly chunky feeling. Ibanez necks have normal string spacing, satin-finished backs, and tend to be super-thin. Both are somewhat shoulder-y and flat-backed, but that's about all they have in common.

Personally, I'm not much of a fan of either, but I dislike Ibanez necks less.


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## Viginez (Apr 9, 2019)

then i'd try to find a used original m-ii in good shape. those are price stable around 1000. 
with e-ii i don't know, but i think it would be a bit harder to move it (if you decide to sell it).
also i find the m-ii more comfortable (body arm contour) than the horizon. i sold my horizon for that reason.
sure, you can get used to it, but you always notice the difference when you pickup another guitar with a more pleasant arm contour.


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## MetalHex (Apr 9, 2019)

Viginez said:


> then i'd try to find a used original m-ii in good shape. those are price stable around 1000.
> with e-ii i don't know, but i think it would be a bit harder to move it (if you decide to sell it).
> also i find the m-ii more comfortable (body arm contour) than the horizon. i sold my horizon for that reason.
> sure, you can get used to it, but you always notice the difference when you pickup another guitar with a more pleasant arm contour.


I usually buy used but for some reason I'm feeling brand new. But easier said than done when it comes time to pull out the old wallet, because then I dont feel like spending brand new money haha.


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## AlmaMater (Apr 9, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> I usually buy used but for some reason I'm feeling brand new. But easier said than done when it comes time to pull out the old wallet, because then I dont feel like spending brand new money haha.



Have you decided the model?

I see you do not want a Floyd so that leaves almost entirely the M II out of the equation. The M II NT starts at 2000 USD new (Aprox)


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