# Frank Gambale-style sweep picking/speed picking



## Naren (Apr 5, 2008)

I thought I might as well start practicing to be a faster lead guitarist and maybe try to get sweep picking down, so I started practicing and studying Frank Gambale's "Speed Picking." 

From watching videos of him play, he sweeps and picks very very fast while looking like he's not even trying or thinking about it at all, so I know his method has to be really effective, but it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now. Normally when I solo, depending on which direction I'm going, I'll do down picking or regular alternate picking. His style of picking is like alternate picking except that instead of being consistently down up down up down up like alternate, it depends on whether you're changing strings or not and which direction you're going, and could be down up down down up down up down up up down up up down down up down. 

My fingers feel really really weird.

Any advice on the fastest way to get used to this? I suppose I'm supposed to just play this to a metronome and go faster and faster, but from what speed to what speed? And in what increments? He explains how everything works and gives lots of examples (which could work as exercises), but he doesn't say anything about how to go about learning everything or getting used to it, etc.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 5, 2008)

Naren said:


> I thought I might as well start practicing to be a faster lead guitarist and maybe try to get sweep picking down, so I started practicing and studying Frank Gambale's "Speed Picking."
> 
> From watching videos of him play, he sweeps and picks very very fast while looking like he's not even trying or thinking about it at all, so I know his method has to be really effective, but it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now. Normally when I solo, depending on which direction I'm going, I'll do down picking or regular alternate picking. His style of picking is like alternate picking except that instead of being consistently down up down up down up like alternate, it depends on whether you're changing strings or not and which direction you're going, and could be down up down down up down up down up up down up up down down up down.
> 
> ...



It took me ages to get used to this, and I avoided putting in the time with it for that reason. I only really started working at it when I realised that I was naturally playing certain parts using this method, and so figured I'd go with what works. Nowadays it's a pretty essential part of my technique.

The best thing I can recommend is to be patient and to do a little bit each day rather than marathon practice sessions. In addition to that, put in the time to develop your legato technique, as a lot of the problems I've had with sweep/economy picking are actually related to sloppy fretting rather than picking hand speed.
Also, it might be beneficial if you're new to the technique to try some smaller exercises, like 3 string arpeggios or simple repetitive picking patterns that accentuate the sweeping motion, rather than trying to sweep huge scales and arps immediately.

Hope that helps!


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## Michael (Apr 5, 2008)

Naren said:


> ...it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now.



That's normal (if you're just starting out on sweeping/alt. picking) and there's no real way around it at this stage. I'd just suggest making sure you're properly warmed up before you practice. It's like warming up/streching before working out/exercising. Just play some chromatics and stuff until you get the blood flowing in your hands and fingers. It'll improve your practice sessions a great deal.



Naren said:


> Any advice on the fastest way to get used to this? I suppose I'm supposed to just play this to a metronome and go faster and faster, but from what speed to what speed? And in what increments? He explains how everything works and gives lots of examples (which could work as exercises), but he doesn't say anything about how to go about learning everything or getting used to it, etc.



I think you need to figure what speed you're most comfortable playing the exercises you're using, aswell as figure out the maximun speed you can play them at cleanly. Then each time you practice, go up and down between those two tempos. It'll increase over time. But it's really important to know what you're comfortable with/capable of.


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## Naren (Apr 5, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> It took me ages to get used to this, and I avoided putting in the time with it for that reason. I only really started working at it when I realised that I was naturally playing certain parts using this method, and so figured I'd go with what works. Nowadays it's a pretty essential part of my technique.
> 
> The best thing I can recommend is to be patient and to do a little bit each day rather than marathon practice sessions. In addition to that, put in the time to develop your legato technique, as a lot of the problems I've had with sweep/economy picking are actually related to sloppy fretting rather than picking hand speed.
> Also, it might be beneficial if you're new to the technique to try some smaller exercises, like 3 string arpeggios or simple repetitive picking patterns that accentuate the sweeping motion, rather than trying to sweep huge scales and arps immediately.
> ...



Thanks for the advice.

Yeah, mainly I've just been doing 3-note-per-string scales from the low E to the high E (and sometimes the low B to the high E), using his techniques. I've been trying arpeggios and even tried sweeping a little, but my fingers are not used to it at all.

I think the problems are mostly in my right hand and not my left hand. I had been practicing picking fast with my right hand for rhythm guitar for a long time, tremolo picking at 210bpm and all that stuff (you probably remember the thread), but that was mostly down-picking and alternate picking. Frank Gambale's style is a lot harder.

He said that "this style may seem very awkward at first, but once you get used to it, it really is worth it."

I guess my question is: how long does it take to get used to it? I've mainly just had a guitar in my hand while watching movies and running through scales with his style (correcting myself over and over again) and then spending a few minutes with a metronome when I'm not watching a movie.

I think I still am at an appropriate practice area for my level. I'm nowhere near the level of trying to practice sweeps at 160bpm or anything like that. I first tried learning to sweep about a year and a half ago, but I completely sucked, so I just gave up, but I thought that it'd be better if I could learn to do it anyway.

And, in addition to that, I just want to get my normal soloing speed faster and smoother. And his picking style seems to be optimal for that.



Michael said:


> That's normal (if you're just starting out on sweeping/alt. picking) and there's no real way around it at this stage. I'd just suggest making sure you're properly warmed up before you practice. It's like warming up/streching before working out/exercising. Just play some chromatics and stuff until you get the blood flowing in your hands and fingers. It'll improve your practice sessions a great deal.



Thanks. I hadn't really considered this.

Figures... since I've always had a problem with skipping warming-up and basic exercises.




Michael said:


> I think you need to figure what speed you're most comfortable playing the exercises you're using, aswell as figure out the maximun speed you can play them at cleanly. Then each time you practice, go up and down between those two tempos. It'll increase over time. But it's really important to know what you're comfortable with/capable of.



Mainly I've been trying 8th notes at 120bpm and 150bpm because I'm so new to this and not used to it at all. Nothing special. I can play really clean at 120bpm, but problems start to crop up around 150. I tried 190bpm last night just to see what percentage I could get right and it was a disaster.

Like you suggested, I'm completely new to sweeping. I had tried it out a year and a half ago like I mentioned above, but I gave up pretty soon. I'm not new to alternate picking. I've been alternate picking for over 5 years. It's Frank Gambale's picking that I'm not used to, which is quite different from alternate picking. I'm not sure whether you're familiar with it or not.

Thanks.


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## Michael (Apr 5, 2008)

Naren said:


> Mainly I've been trying 8th notes at 120bpm and 150bpm because I'm so new to this and not used to it at all. Nothing special. I can play really clean at 120bpm, but problems start to crop up around 150. I tried 190bpm last night just to see what percentage I could get right and it was a disaster.



Hmm, maybe try doing the same exercises but in 16th note groupings around the 80-90 range. I find it's a lot easier to keep up with a slower beat, even if it's the same amount of notes being played.


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## S-O (Apr 5, 2008)

I think Economy picking is the best way 

But Gambale is very rigid with it, sticking to the up 3 up 3 up 2 down 3 type of Ideas.

Try a less strict method, simply when ascending up to higher strings, use a down pick. When descending, use a down pick. This way you don't have to stick to his strict 3 3 2.

Try this; too lazy to put into a tab.

E string 8 10 12
A 8 10 12
D 9 10 12
G 9 10 12
B 10 12 13
e 10 12 13

For a turn around,

e 10 12 13 12 10

Then go backwards from before.


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 5, 2008)

gotten his sweep picking booklet + audio CD and that was my first answer to sweep picking years back ... however i didnt really studies how he transform his own way of pentatonic sweeps which is caters very much for his own style as told earlier in this thread.... well all i know was down up down and the next strings is gotta be another down and this sequence goes on and on... i applied this on paul gilbert practise on his famous three notes two strings picking when he picks down up down and up hitting the next string consecutively... instead of going attacking between strings in "outer form" i applied the down up down down up down to attack two strings "inwards between the strings.. hope is well eleborated here and now i found that alternate picking is however more flexible and due to the years of sweep picking adaptation is becoming hotter and hotter to use it as i practise my picking... and now i could not alternate pick in paul gilbert's or greg howe way... ;(


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## Naren (Apr 5, 2008)

hanachanmaru said:


> gotten his sweep picking booklet + audio CD and that was my first answer to sweep picking years back ... however i didnt really studies how he transform his own way of pentatonic sweeps which is caters very much for his own style as told earlier in this thread.... well all i know was down up down and the next strings is gotta be another down and this sequence goes on and on... i applied this on paul gilbert practise on his famous three notes two strings picking when he picks down up down and up hitting the next string consecutively... instead of going attacking between strings in "outer form" i applied the down up down down up down to attack two strings "inwards between the strings.. hope is well eleborated here and now i found that alternate picking is however more flexible and due to the years of sweep picking adaptation is becoming hotter and hotter to use it as i practise my picking... and now i could not alternate pick in paul gilbert's or greg howe way... ;(



So, are you saying you think that alternate picking is better or his picking is better?

Because I can already alternate pick really well, but can't sweep worth shit and I'm struggling with trying to get down Gambale's style.


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 5, 2008)

Naren said:


> So, are you saying you think that alternate picking is better or his picking is better?
> 
> Because I can already alternate pick really well, but can't sweep worth shit and I'm struggling with trying to get down Gambale's style.



Ohhhh !!!! perhaps you should get me some tips off for alternate picking cause i am shit at that !!! hahaha ... perhaps u should try some Cooley's sweeping his techniques are just amazing with straight down pick for appreggios + some hammer ons and pull offs .. i stress he is a legato king !!! hahaha... i was blown away by his first instructional i got from chops from hell !!! is just ass ripping... but again if your tipping off to get started on thoese basic sweep pick cooley is by far my idol !!! but frank gambale would be more indept to learn as he incoperates pentatonics three notes per strings with sweeping techniques as u realised is very small broken up sweeps each time you study it ... 

i have no say on which is better cause i am just an amaturist here hahaha sorry but i personally feel that if i can do alternate pick is a plus for me cause if i were to alternate string skips is just easier and clearer with less misses doing insanely wide skips between strings... cause alternate pickers like paul gilbert or greg howe always end up with an up stroke when approaching to the next string below... ( "an outwards pick attack") is just easier and would strike the string clearer... i tried to adapt to it but i just couldent get fast like paul gilbert or cooley's alternate... so i ended up with a down stroke and at times i miss it or hitted other strings which comes by way.... ;( 

like michael angelo encourages do it both ways !!! alternate and sweep as this statement would set another phrase of my guitar picking    haha...


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## Naren (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, I was thinking of learning this to use for faster soloing and sweeping and then use regular alternate picking for more normal solos and regular arpeggios. I'm not exactly sure, but Gambale's method seems very indepth and effective.

If I wanted to learn from Cooley, how would I go about that? I'd need an indepth book or something. 

Well, obviously being able to do it both ways is the best, but you know how it goes...


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 5, 2008)

well perhaps u need to break up frank's sweeping chops instead of doing it all. and thats what i did .... as for starting out if your looking after cooley's works u can visit Chops from Hell Guitar Site there are many good cool chops and examples which u can learn putting hammer ons and pull offs when doing simple appreggios instead of rigid picking method in every note u play for a appreggio.. well hope it works  

i do it simple way as i know basic sweeping and my three notes scales are small sweeps too ... strings skippings are bad cause i use sweeps too at times i do it very dirty and i miss and hits fusses me out... the only alternate pick i know of is when doing four notes per strings cause thats when i have no way to do the downs on the next strings lol.... i am just unpolished as i am...


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## Naren (Apr 5, 2008)

I took a look at that site. The one you're referring to is Volume 10: The Art of Picking, right? Or a different one? So they ship to Singapore? They'd ship to Japan too? 

I noticed he also has "Shred Guitar Manifesto," (no idea what this video covers. ) "Extreme Pentatonics," and "Basic Training" (this one looks helpful).

Not sure if they deliver to Japan or not. And if they do, not sure what I'd get or whether it'd be over my head or not. I mean, Rusty Cooley is like a bazillion times better than me, so it might not be helpful to me at all.

Thanks for the advice. I'm still practicing right now.


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## stubhead (Apr 5, 2008)

Regarding the use of a metronome, I use and teach what Steve Morse had to say about it. Though he is a religiously-strict alternate picker himself, what he says about a metronome works for any type of picking, it's just about how to add speed effectively over weeks & months.



> Every day when you're specifically doing "speed exercises" you have to find your daily baseline tempo, that at which you can play an exercise perfectly. This can vary a lot, 10% or more - tiredness, a cold, lack of practice, that doesn't matter. Each exercise has a different baseline depending on difficulty too. I like to choose longer licks for myself, at least 16 notes with some string-crossing because it keeps me interested, regardless choose one exercise at a time to concentrate on. What Morse says, specifically, is:
> 
> "Play the exercise and alternate it with some scales or modes that you already know. Do this for five minutes at the baseline tempo, trying to play each note perfectly in time. Every five minutes, move up one bpm, and repeat what you just did.
> 
> ...



You'll want a little notebook so you can record your day-to-day baselines, and the improvement. It's useful to find or invent a variety of licks to work on - string-skipping, sweeping, alternate picking, etc. However I don't think I'd want to work on more than one a day for 35 minutes _each_ - that's a lot of clicking to tolerate & tendons to tempt.  In theory, if you can move up 5 bpm's a day for a month you'll be picking 150 bpm's faster, but that's not quite the way it works out.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 5, 2008)

Naren said:


> I took a look at that site. The one you're referring to is Volume 10: The Art of Picking, right? Or a different one? So they ship to Singapore? They'd ship to Japan too?
> 
> I noticed he also has "Shred Guitar Manifesto," (no idea what this video covers. ) "Extreme Pentatonics," and "Basic Training" (this one looks helpful).
> 
> ...



If you're gonna get the Rusty Cooley stuff, I'd highly recommend you check out Paul Gilbert's 'Intense Rock' videos first, as a lot of the stuff on Rusty's instructionals builds on the groundwork laid in Gilbert's, so they'll be a lot more accessible if you check out 'Intense Rock' first. If shipping's a problem, just do a direct download...that's how I get all my CFH stuff.

SGM covers virtually everything from tapping/legato and alternate picking to 3 octave sweeps. It's not for the faint-hearted, but there's some cool stuff there.
AOP is all alternate picking...no economy picking or sweeping at all.


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## S-O (Apr 5, 2008)

Get every single Rusty Cooley video.

They are amazing.

Basic training, which I don't have, may be a great start towards his other videos.

Shred Guitar Manifesto has the Legato work out, for devolping left hand strength and stretches; and a section for legto, picking, and sweeping each with licks.

Extreme Pentatonics goes into...pentatonics. The main idea of it is 3 nps and 4 nps pentatonic ideas. He shows a great way for visualizing the fretboard.

The Art of Picking is about...you guess it! Picking!  This goes from 'basic' (if you will call what Rusty does basic) 3 nps, to crazy 4 nps ideas.

The two performance clinic DVD's are cool too, I suggest buying the others first. I am going to try to buy Basic Training to see if it is as great as the others are, which it most likely is.


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## MattyCakes (Apr 5, 2008)

i do things a bit differently. take a jazz piece and try to play it faster than it should be played. a lot of these DVDS, especially the art of picking, the final excersize really isnt all that challenging and its too musical to boot.


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## Naren (Apr 6, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> If you're gonna get the Rusty Cooley stuff, I'd highly recommend you check out Paul Gilbert's 'Intense Rock' videos first, as a lot of the stuff on Rusty's instructionals builds on the groundwork laid in Gilbert's, so they'll be a lot more accessible if you check out 'Intense Rock' first. If shipping's a problem, just do a direct download...that's how I get all my CFH stuff.
> 
> SGM covers virtually everything from tapping/legato and alternate picking to 3 octave sweeps. It's not for the faint-hearted, but there's some cool stuff there.
> AOP is all alternate picking...no economy picking or sweeping at all.



I couldn't find any instructionals by Paul Gilbert on the CFH page.

If I can just directly download the stuff, then that will solve my problems with shipping, I guess. I'll just have to burn it immediately so I have a physical product in my hands.

If I can't get the Paul Gilbert one (couldn't find it), then you would recommend the Basic Training Cooley video? or is there an even better video on there? 

I wouldn't even think about Shred Guitar Manifesto. There's no way I could do any of that stuff.

EDIT: Of course, on second look, it doesn't seem that any of his instructionals are for sweeping (except super high level sweeping that no beginners would be able to do).

I went and downloaded Rusty Cooley's "Basic Training," because I figured that it'd probably really help out my guitar playing even if it doesn't cover sweeping, economy picking, and so on.



stubhead said:


> Regarding the use of a metronome, I use and teach what Steve Morse had to say about it. Though he is a religiously-strict alternate picker himself, what he says about a metronome works for any type of picking, it's just about how to add speed effectively over weeks & months.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll want a little notebook so you can record your day-to-day baselines, and the improvement. It's useful to find or invent a variety of licks to work on - string-skipping, sweeping, alternate picking, etc. However I don't think I'd want to work on more than one a day for 35 minutes _each_ - that's a lot of clicking to tolerate & tendons to tempt.  In theory, if you can move up 5 bpm's a day for a month you'll be picking 150 bpm's faster, but that's not quite the way it works out.



Thanks for the advice. This is all pretty helpful. 

For me, I really can't tell the difference at all between just 1bpm, but I guess it just builds up over time.


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## Durero (Apr 6, 2008)

Just a bit of encouragement Eric - stick with it! It's totally worthwhile imo.
I also gave Gambales stuff a shot many years ago and gave up and stuck to Gilberts alternate-picking style. But years later a friend showed me how fluidly he could do the sweeping and so I decided to give it another shot. Took me about two years to feel comfortable with it, but now it's totally incorporated into my playing. I can play much much quicker while only using a fraction of the physical effort that is needed for strict alternate picking.

I'd recommend focusing on rhythmic consistency. Every time you sweep from one string to the next your picking hand has to suddenly slow to half the speed of your regular alternating strokes. Slowing down the picking hand accurately without rushing the sweep is one of the hardest things. If the subdivisions of the beat are not played very accurately and with a relaxed motion then don't speed up until it's clean.

Best of luck


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi there i guess Durero spells it all out.. maybe you need to calm down abit and focus on the frank's chops and to play it slow and easy and also progressively... you can find some abstract of paul gilbert's video from youtube good luck as well ....


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## Naren (Apr 6, 2008)

hanachanmaru said:


> Hi there i guess Durero spells it all out.. maybe you need to calm down abit and focus on the frank's chops and to play it slow and easy and also progressively... you can find some abstract of paul gilbert's video from youtube good luck as well ....



Well, I haven't stopped practicing it. I've been practicing it every day (today as well), but I thought I'd put some other stuff into my practicing to help me out.


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## Demeyes (Apr 6, 2008)

I've been looking at the economy picking style stuff recently, I've never had a too strict technique for alternate picking so I had kind of started down the economy route. I've always played 3nps ascending this way but now I'm trying to get decending and different note groupings too. Its very awkward and I definately wouldn't do this with out thinking about it when I'm playing. Hopefully it'll come together for me. I'm hoping to apply this technique just to picked passages because I can sweep already to an all right level.
This method of picking seems to make a lot of sense. Much less wasted movement and it flows easily enough when you get going, I'm surprised there aren't more people using it. Granted Gamble takes it too the extreme by playing almost everything this way.
Some of the Paul Gilbert stuff is on video google. I got one of his full videos off it before. His are very useful, plenty of usable licks and ideas all over them and he's entertaing too.


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 7, 2008)

I would say big thanks to Chopsfromhell.com for providing good instructionals... i gotten mist rusty cooley's instructionals and its nuts !! but frank's DVD and instructionals are still hard for me to stick with expecially his awesome penta sweeps... anyway being persistent and with lots of sheer hardwork in practising would always help !!! keep on the work naren !! 

well i know of Tom Kopyto's instructionals offers a new type of alternates but havent check it out yet ... anyone who has it could shred some light here and to also share ..?? hehe as i always like to see : Rusty cooley,Francesco fareri,shane gibson,Theodore Ziras,Todd duane,Tom Kopyto, Frank gambale and many others more....


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## Naren (Apr 8, 2008)

I've been spending 30-50 minutes a day just doing the exercises Rusty Cooley has in his CFH video (5 minutes per video). I can see how doing this every day is really gonna help me out.

It's ridiculous how much the muscle on the side of my left hand below the pinky hurts like crazy after 20-30 minute. After the 30-50 minutes, it looks like I have a huge tumor on the side of my hand. I'm sure it's building muscle, but I've never seen any other guitarists with tumor-sized painful muscles bulging out of the side of their hand.

Well, anyway, I've only been doing it for 3 days, but it seems pretty useful.


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## hanachanmaru (Apr 8, 2008)

i still remember when i first got rusty's sick instructionals ... i was like possessed and i spend some two hours on that video learning and was a section where he stretches last three fingers to fit a whole note starting from the first fret of the guitar... i have short fingers but lucky is still long enough to cover that warm up section ... i got it pretty much for few hours and damn !!! i woke up feeling pain and sore on my fingers and i couldent even clench my fist to give a baddest punch on the face of the devil lol is sick by far...and now i improve alot thanks there Mr cooley !!!!







Naren said:


> I've been spending 30-50 minutes a day just doing the exercises Rusty Cooley has in his CFH video (5 minutes per video). I can see how doing this every day is really gonna help me out.
> 
> It's ridiculous how much the muscle on the side of my left hand below the pinky hurts like crazy after 20-30 minute. After the 30-50 minutes, it looks like I have a huge tumor on the side of my hand. I'm sure it's building muscle, but I've never seen any other guitarists with tumor-sized painful muscles bulging out of the side of their hand.
> 
> Well, anyway, I've only been doing it for 3 days, but it seems pretty useful.


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