# Roter 8 Sphinx and Roter 8 Cheops



## Maikh (Jun 20, 2011)

There were projects of the two guitars that I wanted to make for a long time and now it's done.

*Roter 8 Sphinx:*
-scale: 30"
-body: ash and the thin layer of padouk
-body top: wenge
-fingerboard: padouk
-neck: wenge
-humbucker: 1x bridge Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat 8
-bridge: fixed

*Roter 8 Cheops:*
-scale: 30"
-body: wenge and the thin layer of padouk
-body top: ash
-fingerboard: wenge
-headstock top: ash
-humbucker: 1x bridge Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat 8
-bridge: fixed

At the moment Sphinx is done and will be arriving at my house tommorow, so I will do some test with it.

Photos:


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## avenger (Jun 20, 2011)

Give us more pictures when it arrives!


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## Nublet (Jun 20, 2011)

, that is all!


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## technomancer (Jun 20, 2011)

Hopefully they're better than the pieces of shit he was foisting off on people that ordered from him here (or not delivering guitars at all without refunding money)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/dealers-group-buys/145555-caveat-emptor-my-roter-situation.html
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...-fan-fret-roter-8-trying-help-lost-cause.html


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## SirMyghin (Jun 20, 2011)

technomancer said:


> Hopefully they're better than the pieces of shit he was foisting off on people that ordered from him here (or not delivering guitars at all without refunding money)
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/dealers-group-buys/145555-caveat-emptor-my-roter-situation.html
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...-fan-fret-roter-8-trying-help-lost-cause.html



This. They have the easy part down, they look pretty. That part of making a guitar is childs play (or very rudimentary carpentry, which for me is childs play anyway)


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## Winspear (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm sure they will be okay - aside from the communication issues, the non-fanned guitars before this whole issue were very well received, no?


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## orakle (Jun 20, 2011)

i like how rustic/natural that top looks

i like to feel the grain of the wood a lot ;D


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## midian (Jun 20, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> I'm sure they will be okay - aside from the communication issues, the non-fanned guitars before this whole issue were very well received, no?



Afaik there have been a lot of issues even with the non-fanned designs, people just didn't post their problems... And even if they are able to build a basic guitar now it doesn't matter anymore imho, their horrible business practice is too much of a risk to take.

Just my two cents of course, but just ask Halsinden or anyone who's dealt with 'em, "communication issues" and no refunds are inexcusable, even if their quality is top-notch now (very doubtful).

"Fool me once..."


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 20, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> I'm sure they will be okay - aside from the communication issues, the non-fanned guitars before this whole issue were very well received, no?



As far as I know only one standard fretted semi-custom shipped. 

Worth noting is that the frets being placed wrong was only the tip of the iceberg as far as problems go when it comes to the other guitars from that run.

Just ask elq, MF_Kitten, and drmosh. I'd list more but the others haven't even recieved instruments.

I think it's fair to say that none of the semi-customs were too well recieved.


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## caskettheclown (Jun 20, 2011)

Can that pickup be any closer to the bridge?


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## valentine (Jun 20, 2011)

Great axes Maikh :-* i can't wait to put my hands on that beauty 
Afekth with Roters-it rocks


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## Lothar (Jun 20, 2011)

I hope they will sound better than they are looking


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## valentine (Jun 20, 2011)

Lothar is everywhere


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## Elysian (Jun 20, 2011)

Roter ripping off Blackmachine


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## JamesM (Jun 20, 2011)

Elysian said:


> Roter ripping off Blackmachine



While I agree with your disdain for this from an artistic point of view, and the fact that Roter _most definitely_ isn't doing the BM name justice, the near complete unavailability of Blackmachine instruments makes it okay for me. Had I the resources to fund a custom build, I could see myself spec'ing one out as a Blackmachine clone. How's the saying go?--"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." No one barks every time someone builds a tele, do they? 

Now, were the guitars more available than they are now, I think my opinion would be different. As it stands, however, I'd have no problems morally.


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## Demiurge (Jun 20, 2011)

If the scarf is on the headstock side of the neck, that will be progress enough!


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## sell2792 (Jun 20, 2011)

God speed man. I'd be scared to have anything to do with that company. I'm glad to see Halo has improved, but Rotors are up there with he-who-shall-go-unnamed (the ginger devil troll).


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 20, 2011)

sell2792 said:


> God speed man. I'd be scared to have anything to do with that company. I'm glad to see Halo has improved, but Rotors are up there with he-who-shall-go-unnamed (the ginger devil troll).



Pat isn't a ginger.


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## thewildturkey (Jun 20, 2011)

Maikh asked me about Roter a while back, me being one of the semi-custom victims.

Admittedly my Guitar showed up eventually, and also it seems to be in _much_ better shape than the other recent semi-customs.

Needless to say I strongly advised Maikh against Roter, and assuming he put down a deposit after that discussion, I would say he was pretty brave. Considering that chat only happend about 2 months ago, it appears Roter have really have sped up their build times dramaticly, which is a good thing.

These things look nice, hope they play as well and that this means Roter have enough money coming it to clear the semicustom back orders and everybody gets a good axe at the end of the day.

Maybe they will even send me the the hardcase I paid for and never recived, but I doubt it.


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## JamesM (Jun 20, 2011)

^^


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## Guitarman700 (Jun 20, 2011)

Oh, Hi, it's me, Devries, just popping in to say these guys are giving me a run for my money in the quality, tone and customer service departments. I'd recommend a Roter any day!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 20, 2011)

Alright guys, enough. 

I think the point has been made.


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## anne (Jun 20, 2011)

caskettheclown said:


> Can that pickup be any closer to the bridge?



Seriously. wth


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## thewildturkey (Jun 20, 2011)

anne said:


> Seriously. wth



Pretty sure that would have been a request from Maikh, I am pretty sure the PAS's he had were like that as well.


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## Waelstrum (Jun 21, 2011)

All the Rotor stuff aside, there's just something about single pickup guitars that seems weird to me. I know that some people don't use the neck pickup, and if you don't need it you might as well leave it out, but then why not through in a few extra frets, or a sustainer? (Unless money/availability is an issue.)


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## HumanFuseBen (Jun 21, 2011)

How different does a pickup sound when its that close to the bridge?


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## Hollowway (Jun 21, 2011)

HumanFuseBen said:


> How different does a pickup sound when its that close to the bridge?



Yeah, I'm wondering that, too. If you extrapolate what the neck to middle to bridge change gives, I'd expect it to be crisper and brighter. But this is so close I imagine it wouldn't have much vibration to detect. 
Hopefully Maikh can weigh in. I'm especially interested in how the 30" scale and that pup location would sound with the high E string.


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## Lothar (Jun 21, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I'm wondering that, too. If you extrapolate what the neck to middle to bridge change gives, I'd expect it to be crisper and brighter. But this is so close I imagine it wouldn't have much vibration to detect.
> Hopefully Maikh can weigh in. I'm especially interested in how the 30" scale and that pup location would sound with the high E string.



I was thinking about that too. Maybe the low drop D will be more accurate but rest of the string will suffer from the PU location.


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## Explorer (Jun 21, 2011)

Closer to bridge = quieter, brighter, much less bass. 

That's why the Telecaster bridge pickup is slanted, and I suspect the Agile Pendulum had the same design idea in its original bridge placement. 

I understand the anxiety about Roter making new instruments quickly while some might be waiting... but I wonder if that came about in order to create an income stream. If there were no newer orders being fulfilled, I suspect there wouldn't be money to continue the older builds. I'm not saying it's right, but maybe it's necessary. 

Pretty guitar. I can't wait to hear a full report. Possibly Roter/Apophis will turn things around in terms of the build quality, as well as making an effort to really build bridges with those who have had issues. 

Hey, if Halo can start to turn things around, anything is possible, right? Halo going back and fixing past issues is a huge factor in their gaining in current credibility, and it would work for other builders in the same way.


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## Deadnightshade (Jun 21, 2011)

Guitar's looking good.I hope it lacks the problems our semicustoms had.

BTW it's Rot*E*r people are you doing it on purpose?A rotor doesn't make guitars it's a completely different thing


EDIT:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor It is even a rare liver disorder ,still no guitar builder there.


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## Winspear (Jun 21, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> As far as I know only one standard fretted semi-custom shipped.
> 
> Worth noting is that the frets being placed wrong was only the tip of the iceberg as far as problems go when it comes to the other guitars from that run.
> 
> ...



Oh absolutely  I meant before the semi customs, e.g Hals guitar.

But yes a good guitar does not make up for all the other issues they are having as a business.


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## Goatchrist (Jun 21, 2011)

That body looks delicious, makes me hungry!! xD

Put up some more pictures when it arives!


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## Maikh (Jun 21, 2011)

Quick soundtest and some photos - I can't describe this, it's just amazing! I will write more later.

http://soundcloud.com/maikh01/test-1


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## Randy (Jun 21, 2011)

Well, that certainly looks nothing like a Blackmachine. 

But for serious, I'm glad you had a much better experience with your instrument then some of the previous cases mentioned so far.


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## UnderTheSign (Jun 21, 2011)

That's a nice neck joint.


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## JamesM (Jun 21, 2011)

Wouldn't mind a video.


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## TemjinStrife (Jun 21, 2011)

Randy said:


> Well, that certainly looks nothing like a Blackmachine.
> 
> But for serious, I'm glad you had a much better experience with your instrument then some of the previous cases mentioned so far.



Are you being facetious? Look at that headstock!


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## JamesM (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes, he was being facetious.


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## sk3ks1s (Jun 21, 2011)

The Armada said:


> Yes, he was being facetious.


 
Are *you* being facetious?


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## JamesM (Jun 21, 2011)

sk3ks1s said:


> Are *you* being facetious?



Nope. Are _*you *_being facetious?


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## orakle (Jun 21, 2011)

you guys made me crack up ;D

btw seems like a nice 8s


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## -42- (Jun 22, 2011)

The Blackmachine motif is pretty cool, though I think the headstock takes it a bit too fare. 

How's the fit and finish?


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## Goatchrist (Jun 22, 2011)

Love that headstock. Don't really care about who's the luthier if it plays nice and looks good. Fuck brands!


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## AVH (Jun 22, 2011)

Very nice looking guitar, and yes, who cares if if the headstock is a BM ripoff...when it comes down to it almost all guitar designs are 'influenced' by someone or another - there's rarely anything truly 'new' or 'original' in terms of design. Almost everything can be traced back to a handful of 50-60 yr old designs anyways...

Based on the one ambitious but ill-executed Roter I worked on, there was never any doubt in my mind that the guy is a talented woodcarver, and it's especially clear here. Very nice work. My only concerns, again based on what I saw previously and can see here again, would be:

- Apparently it looks like he still insists on using 1 piece, unlaminated wenge for the necks, which is a notoriously twist-prone wood unless you use cross-grained laminates for strength and stability. This has also been a problem with some Warwick basses made the same way, which I've seen many with twists. And how thin is this neck? The one I worked on was way too thin, so much so that the truss rod anchor was starting to bulge out from inside, as the rod was tightened to it's max...hopefully you got a better made neck. Also nice to see a real nut with some actual break angle there, like it's supposed to be.

- while we're at it, yes that truss rod...have you tried the rod? Does it work, and is there enough 'play' in both directions? Hopefully again, you got a good one.

- I wonder about the intonation, as it's not usual to see all the saddles aligned in a straight line evenly like that and have it intonate properly. Usually, the saddles will form an approximate 'double stairstep' arrangement when intonated correctly. The last instrument had bridge placement that was off, with questionalble fret placement as well. I would check that intonation with a good strobe tuner, as it just looks off. 

That's a gorgeous guitar, and I hope Roter has taken the constructive criticism and picked-up their socks in the quality control department - it certainly _looks_ that way. As I said, the body woodwork was very good and never in question, just the neck was a travesty. If there's _any_ issue I would not hesitate to have them rectify it immediately, as they've dragged their ass previously on rectifying claims until finally being hassled by the ECC to do so. Hopefully, you won't have any problems. Have fun with your new axe, it looks great!


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## Justin Bailey (Jun 22, 2011)

Waelstrum said:


> All the Rotor stuff aside, there's just something about single pickup guitars that seems weird to me. I know that some people don't use the neck pickup, and if you don't need it you might as well leave it out, but then why not through in a few extra frets, or a sustainer? (Unless money/availability is an issue.)



Same reason they dont pop a neck pickup in: if you don't need it don't install it.


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## Maikh (Jun 22, 2011)

I forgot to post the link to that quick test:

Test 1 by Maikh on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

And some answer:
-truss rod works well (both ways)
-neck is something between Ibanez and Agile, it isn't too thin (it's different from earlier guitars I've seen from Roter, for me it's exactly as it should be and it plays great)
-intonation is just wow, best so far from other 8-strings I owned - I tune to drop E

I will write more detailed review soon. More tests and video also.


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## Jontain (Jun 22, 2011)

Looks like a nice guitar man, congratulations.

Seems like alot of hate for Roter on here but seen as I have never actually got to touch one of there guitars all I can do is sit on the fence and comment on the pictures. Bridge pup does look mighty close to the bridge but if that is how you wanted it then nice!


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## Maikh (Jul 9, 2011)

Another demo with Roter:

Demo1 with Roter 8 Sphinx by Maikh on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 9, 2011)

This is promising, seeing as they promised to build me a new guitar to replace the thingy they sent me. Pretty much the same specs as this one and everything, except not that headstock, no wenge neck, and no tops or fancy woods. Also a q tuner in the neck.


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## vansinn (Jul 10, 2011)

I too am happy to see a seemingly nicely executed Rotor again.
The pics shown weren't taken in angles allowing to see the detalis where there previously were flaws; however, it does look like a very neat build.

As far as I recall, they actually produced a number of pretty good instruments before the quite serious series of hickups. At the least, I remember a fair number of powwow commented build threads.

I have the feeling they simply got overentusiastic and made the, not first in this industry, mistake of trying to push the price envelope on affordable semi-customs.
I'll be happy for Rotor if they've recovered and changed policies.
The fact they're still doing business hopefully tells a story about a will to learn from mistakes 

Anyone remember a certain series of a certain French car model unprovoked bursting into flames when parked? The brand still sells


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## Maikh (Jul 10, 2011)

So, guitar is really well-built, finish is cool and it plays great. I played another Roter from 2011, which my second guitarist uses and it's also great. So this is how it looks like in 2011.

And demo #2:

Demo2 by Maikh on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 10, 2011)

sounds pretty good! i'm glad. Roter says it's a matter of weeks before they can start building my replacement, which i'm stoked to hear. they have to ship out all the delayed builds first.


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## Jarabowa (Jul 10, 2011)

Man, this thread gives me cautious hope. I've been tempted to try going with Roter for a while now for a custom, but I've been scared shitless by what the end product might be. I do like their designs that I've seen, and like Roter, I also have a sick fascination with wenge as a top wood


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## Xaios (Jul 13, 2011)

I admit, I was pretty sad when Roter's QC issues started to become apparent, and I was one of the last to admit that they had really fallen from grace. I even sent a protest to one of the mods when Apophis was banned. It took longer for me to realize that, in hindsight, it was the correct decision. It was a damn shame because this custom that they built is one of my favorite designs:







Like the above poster, the fact that the QC seems to be good on his new guitar is reason for cautious optimism, although I doubt I'll ever get a Roter myself, if they continue to improve then I won't tell anyone not to get one.

Glad you like your new guitar. 

And sorry for hijacking the thread.


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## BR10N (Jul 13, 2011)

I like it! The wood combo reminds me of a Prat.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2011)

Anyone dumb enough to place a Roter order now deserves whatever hunk of wood resembling a guitar they get...........or don't get if you're following the current Roter fiasco.


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## djpharoah (Jul 14, 2011)

Roter threads should be merged with the old Home Depot Challenge threads because no lie those necks are rounded 2"x4"s from Home Depot son!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 14, 2011)




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## elq (Jul 14, 2011)

I tried not to post in this thread... but




djpharoah said:


> Roter threads should be merged with the old Home Depot Challenge threads because no lie those necks are rounded 2"x4"s from Home Depot son!


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 14, 2011)

djpharoah said:


> Roter threads should be merged with the old Home Depot Challenge threads because no lie those necks are rounded 2"x4"s from Home Depot son!



have you seen a decent pic of this guitar though? i know this is true for the one i had, but the one on OP's guitar looks pretty decent?


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## HighGain510 (Jul 14, 2011)

MF_Kitten said:


> have you seen a decent pic of this guitar though? i know this is true for the one i had, but the one on OP's guitar looks pretty decent?



Roter puts out 2-3 non-shitty guitars vs the whole shitpile of crap jobs and non-deliveries? Yeah, I'd stay FAAAAAR away from Roter, and I absolutely wouldn't go about trying to defend them by saying the one build that wasn't completely fucked is to their merit.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 14, 2011)

And to add to that, your also forgetting the OP is Polish, making it easier for him to use local authorities hen needed which Roter was probably aware of.


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 14, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> Roter puts out 2-3 non-shitty guitars vs the whole shitpile of crap jobs and non-deliveries? Yeah, I'd stay FAAAAAR away from Roter, and I absolutely wouldn't go about trying to defend them by saying the one build that wasn't completely fucked is to their merit.



Absolutely agree with you of course, but i don't think that comment was relevant to this specific instrument, is all.


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## technomancer (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah after seeing such quality business practices as telling someone to sell a fucked up guitar that Rotor sent them then send Rotor the money to build a replacement you have to have brain damage to even consider "giving them a chance". There are plenty of reputable luthiers out there, save up your money and use one 

The fact is the guitars they shipped (or didn't bother to ship as the case may be) showed they simply do not give a fuck about their customers, so why would you ever want to send them your money?


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah, i would be very VERY careful around builders with bad rep now. It doesn't matter if they have the skills when they are okay with the idea of sending out something that isn't even playable, and that isn't constructed to last even a month.


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## HighGain510 (Jul 27, 2011)

Didn't want to crap in the OPs for sale thread but for the guys sticking up for Roter, all three of his Roters are in the classifieds now. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 27, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> Didn't want to crap in the OPs for sale thread but for the guys sticking up for Roter, all three of his Roters are in the classifieds now. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.





Not to start any shit, but that's been happening with this dude's customs ever since he bought that PAS Perihellium. He had 2 PAS guitars built after that which also ended up for sale in the classifieds and now these aswell.

I don't mean to generalise and I know Eastern Europe is full of incredible (and unknown) luthiers, but I am staying away from Polish builders.


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## RubenBernges (Jul 27, 2011)

Well, Mayones are Polish as well and their reputation is top notch. But I get your point, I've decided against buying customs from Polish luthiers with questionable reputations (namely Roter and RAN) myself.


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## Deadnightshade (Jul 27, 2011)

djpharoah said:


> Roter threads should be merged with the old Home Depot Challenge threads because no lie those necks are rounded 2"x4"s from Home Depot son!



I see many people bash the..well..minimalistic neck profile.It may sound weird,but it's actually comfortable!At least for me..Some times weird things work.

What didn't work ? The unstable two piece wenge neck as a low-cost solution.In hindsight,i'd give something more for more laminations to make the neck more stable


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## technomancer (Jul 27, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> Didn't want to crap in the OPs for sale thread but for the guys sticking up for Roter, all three of his Roters are in the classifieds now. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.



Guys these are AMAZING!!! (please somebody buy them so I don't have to play them...)


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## TheCommonDelusion (Jul 28, 2011)

Wooow, thank god I read the whole thread!
I was really excited about that guitar that I think to buy one myself but.. not anymore

What can you recommend instead of Roter guitars?
I mean, something in the price range but for some responsible luthier of course!

PS: I've been watching Esteban Maxera's work, and I really like them
PS 2: Yes, I am new, so I dont know about luthiers in this forum :/


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## Maikh (Jul 28, 2011)

I think that need some explanation....as you see people, if you don't believe that those models are well built then come on and play those guitars yourself or ask someone to do it. You will see that many of shit that is coming through is just a past. I had many guitars, so I know what I want.and what I will expect of them. I always experiment with gear, so that's nothing new that I'm changing guitars again. At the moment I'm changing tuning, moving to normal scale length and I received endorsment, it isn't strange that I don't need 8strings anymore


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## Ishan (Jul 28, 2011)

RubenBernges said:


> I've decided against buying customs from Polish luthiers with questionable reputations (namely Roter and RAN) myself.



RAN? Questionable reputation? never heard anything like that about them.


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## Deadnightshade (Jul 28, 2011)

Ishan said:


> RAN? Questionable reputation? never heard anything like that about them.



Look at this thread

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/140819-ran-crusher-new-model-ran-guitars-6.html

There has been an NGD though, and the guitar seemed to be fine.The only problem stated by the owner was the little sharper than usual fret edges.When he reported it to RAN they were actually concerned,although he didn't say it just to send it back,since it was not so dramatical according to the owner.


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## Lothar (Jul 28, 2011)

I will get a Crusher 8 in a week so I can review the build


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