# Finding that Gnarly Bass Tone



## coreysMonster (Jul 19, 2016)

So I've been trying to get a good, growly, throaty bass tone out of my Ibanez BTB675, but no matter what I do the bass sounds lifeless and timid. I've tried multiple combinations of the Bass Driver, the Kemper and various plugins, by itself, using two tracks, three tracks, and even following guides I can't find that nice growl and clank that I'm looking for. It's more of a *whumph*, especially on the low Bb string.

I am entirely new to bass and have only recently started seriously experimenting with different equipment, but I've only really played the BTB675 (and a cheap beginners bass) so I don't have the experience to be able to tell where in the chain the problem is, if it's the strings, pups, if the bass itself is just not made for that kind of tone, or if it's just my tone settings that suck.

Any help or a push in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.


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## TedEH (Jul 19, 2016)

I think your best bet is to post a clip of your bass, then post something you're going for.

It very well could be the bass itself or the pickups you're using though. When I started off I just picked a bass that looked and played cool, but didn't put any thought into the sound the instrument made- I figured that was the amp's job. I was using a bass that had EMGs, a humbucker and P-style split (under big ugly plastic EMG covers). Turns out I don't like humbuckers on a bass very much. Also prefer everything to be passive so far. I'm much happier with my passive Jazz bass than my active Ltd. I find it harder to discover "your sound" on a bass than on a guitar.


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## Rachmaninoff (Jul 19, 2016)

coreysMonster said:


> I can't find that nice growl and clank that I'm looking for. It's more of a *whumph*



Start all over... add only the compressor: attack around 80ms, ratio around 5:1, try varying threshold levels. If you reach the threshold "sweet spot", you can get that clanky Steve Harris bass tone.

Hope this helps.


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## olejason (Jul 19, 2016)

Stainless strings will help. Also you want your action low enough to produce the clank, it varies depending on your touch. Look at this frequency analysis... it is more of a notch than a scoop. It will help.


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## A-Branger (Jul 19, 2016)

try messing around with the pickup selector on the bass and the spot where you pick (if you use a pick) or play the bass. Also mess with the EQ on the high Mids. turn down the Lows.


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## Baelzebeard (Jul 19, 2016)

First make sure you've got new strings on there, (I like stainless). And get the action sorted out for a little fret clank. I believe a bass's strings need to sound good unplugged if you ever hope to capture a good sound.

And second, besides equipment and settings I truly believe the first step in getting an aggressive sound is to play your bass aggressively. Really attack the strings. You can make a perfectly clean tone sound aggressive if you really dig in. Add a little grit, and send it over the top. Bass is very sensitive to how you play the instrument.

You really need to like your sound before you start adding mix tools like compression and double/triple tracking. It's much harder to go from bad to good than from good to amazing after recording.


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## olejason (Jul 20, 2016)

It is hard for me to articulate into words but playing "into" the body more than across the body will help with the clank. Physically, it is a pretty subtle difference but will make a big difference in sound.


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## CGrant109 (Jul 20, 2016)

It takes some time! I have struggled with this in the past, and there's a few adjustments I've made to help.

A. Like others have stated, make sure you are using the right strings for your style. I picked up a pack of D'Addario NYXL's. I now use GHS bass boomers and love them. Great tone on every string, they last quite a while. All-around fantastic strings.

B. Settings -- I used to mess around and fuss with my treble settings, my EQ's, and mixed everything around. I've found dialing everything up to the max setting and then slowly adjusting/lowering from there to give me a full understanding of my bass is capable of providing.

C. Small pedal adjustments: Primarily for me, my "bread and butter" pedals are my Keeley Bassist Compression pedal and my Darkglass B7K. Together, I have full control of my tone, and also how aggressive (distortion / extra oomph) I want to sound/add. 

D. Lastly, but just as important, your fingers! Finger tone with bass is most definitely a real thing, and the more you play and "feel" your bass and strings, you'll get the tone you're after. This is probably the hardest section for me to describe, but I've found immeasurable progress by using different techniques with playing with my fingers (example: faster gallops / chugs -- focus with your index, middle, and ring finger, single note articulation: I rest my picking hand with my index finger primarily resting on the string below the one I'm focusing on. I then use my thumb to "pick" the string I'm attacking if I want a pronounced, yet warm result from the string I'm playing.


Hopefully some of this helps! Playing bass has a big learning curve involved. It may take you weeks / months / years to finally find yourself with your instrument and playstyle, but that's all the fun of it! Go on with the journey *lights up a doobie*


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## TedEH (Jul 20, 2016)

CGrant109 said:


> I now use GHS bass boomers and love them.



+1 for GHS boomers, and trying new strings in general. Used to use D'Addario Xl Nickel but switched a while ago and never looked back. Tried Chromes too, and they sounded cool, but didn't work in the band context for me.


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## coreysMonster (Jul 20, 2016)

Thanks for all the tips guys, I'll get some new strings, dig into the bass some more and post a clip later if I'm still not happy with where I'm at. 12 years of guitar, and yet bass is almost like a completely different instrument!


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## TedEH (Jul 20, 2016)

coreysMonster said:


> bass is almost like a completely different instrument!



It's not LIKE a different instrument, it IS one. 

Edit: I realize that may have been intentional / a joke.


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## bostjan (Jul 20, 2016)

Just my , but if you record DI, make sure you get a nice flat EQ in the signal, then it'll be much easier to EQ in post. If you EQ wrong during recording, then there won't be anything left of the signal to EQ in post. It's like sculpting, if you scult away too much early on, you can't shape anything later...


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## russmuller (Jul 20, 2016)

Wire your pickups in series. Replace that blend pot with a rotary selector, like on a Dingwall. It makes an astonishing difference in the growl you get out of a bass. My only experience is with the pickups in the NG-2/Combustion, but I imagine you'll get a similar boost with any pickups.


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## A-Branger (Jul 20, 2016)

olejason said:


> Stainless strings will help. Also you want your action low enough to produce the clank, it varies depending on your touch.





olejason said:


> It is hard for me to articulate into words but playing "into" the body more than across the body will help with the clank. Physically, it is a pretty subtle difference but will make a big difference in sound.



nop, thats a bad technique in my books. You should avoid the "clank" and try to play clean. The growl the OP ask comes as a result of the bass sound (pickup style, pickup mode, EQ, pre-amp, strings), not as a result of the strings hitting the fretboard in every note

get your action as low as you can, without having fretbuzz. Having say that, the action on the bass doesnt affect the tone

this is not early Korn (an extreme example of your clank). If you want slap, they learn slap techniques. Yes, playing harder makes a small difference in tone, but this comes as result of the way the string are played, learn to control that dynamic sound, more tone change can also come from the place the strings are being played at, also the way you pick with a pick, or your fingers. Having a bit of "clank" as a result to dig in too deep everynow an then is fine, but try to avoid that sound and learn proper technique.

you dont need to destroy your fingers while playing because "metal", you can still play as soft as you want, if you are constnt with your playing and have a good compressor, then your settup level at stage should compensate for the soft playing an it wont matter

and no, dont dig into the body while hitting the strings, keep playing across it... you want dirt?, get an overdrive, But play clean on your bass


you want different bass sound?, get a different bass with different pickups, EQ, pre-amp. Difference between a J style, P, MM, soapbar, active, passive, is big enough to change the whole sound depending on the style of music and if you play with fingers or pick


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## coreysMonster (Jul 20, 2016)

Ok so I swapped the strings, adjusted the EQ a bit using the EQ from olejason, and I recorded a bit with me playing like I usually do, and then with me digging into the strings.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3782733/bassDig.mp3

Part of the problem was that I was EQing out all the frequencies where the string clank sits, but hitting the strings harder got me a huge step closer to where I want to be. The strings didn't really make that big of a change, they weren't that old I guess. Still, this is a significant difference. I have bass EQ flat and did three copies of the same recording, one clean for bass, one crunched for mids and one fizzed out the wazoo for highs. 
I'm really surprised how dynamic the bass guitar is, thank you so much everybody for taking the time. Let me know what you think of the bass tone.

EDIT: Nope, doesn't work in the mix at all. Nevermind, lol. Gonna keep trying stuff out.


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## A-Branger (Jul 20, 2016)

bring down the fuzz and the distorsion. Let the guitars take the dirt the most. Try mixing with the guitars but with the bass clean first, and then slowly add the distorted chanel


aslo would help if you have any clips of the sound you are trying to emulate so help with direction


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## iron blast (Jul 21, 2016)

Try keeping the distortion on just the highs and the lows clean there's a tutorial on playing heavy bass where it explains this


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## olejason (Jul 21, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> nop, thats a bad technique in my books.



Well, no it isn't "bad technique" if that is the sound you're going for. Playing into the body is a pretty well established technique you'll find in several genres, not just metal. You'll even see guys do it on upright but for different reasons. On upright the string will actually resonate slightly differently when plucked into the body versus across. Also, playing that way does not imply not playing clean. You should always play cleanly and in time.


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## A-Branger (Jul 21, 2016)

olejason said:


> Also, playing that way does not imply not playing clean. You should always play cleanly and in time.



yeah thats what I mean, playing clean. Not playing "clank" sounds (strings hitting the fretboard) like you were implying for the OP to do for a growl sound


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## olejason (Jul 21, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> yeah thats what I mean, playing clean. Not playing "clank" sounds (strings hitting the fretboard) like you were implying for the OP to do for a growl sound



Having the strings hit the fretboard can definitely be a desirable sound for some people... like if you wanted an early Cannibal Corpse kind of tone you'd want some fret noise in there. "Growl" means a lot of different things to different people though. I've heard people describe Jaco's tone as growly. But yes, irrespective of the tone or technique it should still be clean.


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## TedEH (Jul 21, 2016)

olejason said:


> You should always play cleanly





A-Branger said:


> Not playing "clank" sounds (strings hitting the fretboard) like you were implying for the OP to do for a growl sound



Says who? You should play to whatever dynamic you're going for, or whatever the song calls for. If that means playing cleanly, do that- but sometimes it means smashing the ever-living daylights out of those bass strings and making as much horrible noise as possible.

I know it's not "correct" and "proper" but in some contexts the only way you're going to get heard on top of a wall of super-bass-heavy rectos through oversized cabs (aka in metal) is to crank the high end and embrace all the clank noises and things like that. Or play more slap.  Or convince your guitarists to thin out their sounds, but that's easier said than done.


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## jerm (Jul 21, 2016)

copy paste bass into 3 tracks:

1) DI: used for the low end so filter out some of the low end, compress heavily.

2) mid track: distort this track a bit, compression can be used, but lightly, fitler out the high end and the low end.

3) high end track: filter out the lows and some of the mids, distort this track, compression CAN be used, but very very lightly.

Then buss these together for some Buss compression if needed, buss EQ, etc. Blend the individual tracks to taste.


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## Mechayoshi (Jul 21, 2016)

Okay I just joined to say this. (not really but this really has caught my attention)

Okay, you are a guitar player right? But new to bass? I was the same way, you have to realise that the approach you take with guitar is different from bass. Like someone said before, it is literally a different instrument. 

Basically you're doing a guitar tone almost which is why it will disappear completely once the guitars start playing. Basses can't beat guitars at their own game, it will result in a invisible bass mix. 

I would personally start with something cleaner first. You'd be surprised (because it surprised me) that you can get away with a much cleaner bass tone in extreme music than you'd think. Make sure mids is strong then see how it sounds. It may be "boring" but once you have something that works, you can start adding things to make it nasty.


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## TedEH (Jul 21, 2016)

jerm said:


> copy paste bass into 3 tracks[...]




^ This.

I always split the lowest part of the bass into it's own track, and mix it back in separately. IMO, two tracks (or more) are the way to go for bass. One for the low rumbly bits that support everything, and one for your brightness/presence/dirt/etc. Compress and process both completely separately.


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## bostjan (Jul 21, 2016)

I just now listened to your clip.

There is no one correct approach, but here's what I would do.

1. Dial in a good clean tone with no compression.
2. Add compression.
3. Perturb your EQ settings to accommodate for the compression.
4. Add distortion and go easy-ish on the gain. (In your clip, IMO, you have too much gain and your tone is too scooped out in the mids)
5. Perturb your EQ setting again to achieve the appropriate sound.

From the discussion, I'm guessing that the sound you are actually going for is not a dirty sound, but a blend of cleans and dirties. A lot of bass distortion pedals and plugins have this feature. You can get a nasty distortion and blend it 40% in with 60% clean tone and sound thick and meaty and still sound nasty and gritty.

Dividing into three tracks is not at all a bad idea. Or four tracks, or six tracks, or whatever. If it gives you more control over your tone, you can always bus and submix until you are happy with a solitary bass tone.


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## A-Branger (Jul 21, 2016)

olejason said:


> Having the strings hit the fretboard can definitely be a desirable sound for some people... like if you wanted an early Cannibal Corpse kind of tone you'd want some fret noise in there. "Growl" means a lot of different things to different people though. I've heard people describe Jaco's tone as growly. But yes, irrespective of the tone or technique it should still be clean.





TedEH said:


> Says who? You should play to whatever dynamic you're going for, or whatever the song calls for. If that means playing cleanly, do that- but sometimes it means smashing the ever-living daylights out of those bass strings and making as much horrible noise as possible.




yeah I know that and Im aware of it. its a distinct sound, like the in between of playing clean and slap. And I ve heard it mostly on funk stuff. Mostly due to a new fresh set of strings and a low action. Even on people like Victor Wooten kinda playing style its hard sometimes to identify when he is actually slapping and when its just normal playing unless you pay really attention to it.

But I only saying what I say, because I feel thats not what the OP is asking for. And being a new into bass I dont think its a good idea to tell him thats the only way as it can develop a bad technique or habit. See the "clank" as a poor man distorsion  for those who dont have one pedal ahaha. But yes, its all about dynamics and how to control them for what part of a song 



TedEH said:


> I know it's not "correct" and "proper" but in some contexts the only way you're going to get heard on top of a wall of super-bass-heavy rectos through oversized cabs (aka in metal) is to crank the high end and embrace all the clank noises and things like that. Or play more slap.  Or convince your guitarists to thin out their sounds, but that's easier said than done.





Mechayoshi said:


> Okay I just joined to say this. (not really but this really has caught my attention)
> 
> Okay, you are a guitar player right? But new to bass? I was the same way, you have to realise that the approach you take with guitar is different from bass. Like someone said before, it is literally a different instrument.
> 
> ...




first because you are playing "bass" doesnt mean you need to turn the "bass" knob all the way up in your amp  Im not blaming anyone here btw. But believe me this happens way more often than not. I used to work on a rehearsal rooms studio for bands and every time I check the rooms after the band finish, or while they settup, always the bass player turned the bass know up  when with my band it was actually in like 3-5 as the big cab compensates for the lasck of bass you have in your house

but that story takes me to my real point, which Im assure is a small part of the OP issue, and also with the live stage issue too. The guitars have way too much low end. Many players are guilty of this, and many dont realize about it, and now that you are entering into the world of bass you would see the why.

people tend to EQ their amps with way too much low end. Why??, because "sounds huge". And yes, it does. But why?, because you are hearing your favourite band's CD, and you want to replicate that sound wright? yeah!.... but the thing is, that massive sound you hear, its not THE guitar... its the guitar WITH a bass track. So what you are trying to repplicate in your house cant be really done, so you compensate by adding the low end that normally its supplied by the bass track

this same issue happens to some people as their "why" when they buy an 8 or 9 string. Because it sounds "big". I still believe a good riff played with guitar+bass is going to sound better than the same riff played by octave lows guitars with either no bass or bass playing in sub frequencies (might as well dnt be playing) 

you would be amazed on how much the bass (instrument) adds to the general sound of the guitar in a mix. And how different (and sometimes how thin) the guitar tracks are really are when playing alone vs a mix

I would say to the OP, have a second look into your guitars, change their settings and EQ a bit so they are in a sense more Hipass filtered, so they can cut better into the mix, and allow room for the bass to sit on and dont clash with it

same approach goes in live sittuations too


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## TedEH (Jul 21, 2016)

Mechayoshi said:


> you can get away with a much cleaner bass tone in extreme music than you'd think.



^ I missed this part, but yeah- all of this. You don't need a dirty bass sound just because "it's metal". IMO clean bass sounds better in most cases. Lots of people make it work, but you can sound just as "heavy" with a completely clean bass sound.


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## Herrick (Jul 21, 2016)

TedEH said:


> I find it harder to discover "your sound" on a bass than on a guitar.



Really? That's one of the things I love about bass. I just plug it in and it usually sounds good to my ears. With guitar, I'm constantly messing around with my amp and pedal to get a sound I like. Maybe it's because my ideal bass sound is really simple.


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## coreysMonster (Jul 22, 2016)

This is where I'm at right now. I forgot to isolate the bass track but here's how it's sounding in the mix, I'll have to post the isolated track after work. Track isn't finished yet, but the bass at least fits way better now than it did with the last version. 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3782733/pain_demoNoVOX_06.mp3


The bass still has a bit too much of a honk for my tastes, but the high end has been tamed and the low end is filled out better. This Nolly vid has a bit of what I'm trying to get, a really tight, low mid bass tone.


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## TedEH (Jul 22, 2016)

Herrick said:


> Maybe it's because my ideal bass sound is really simple.



Could be.  I suppose, to me, it's a matter of how much freedom you have in defining a bass sound. There are sort of predefined expectations of what a guitar will sound like in a song/band/genre and what it's role is, but bass doesn't have that as much. You can go completely flat and clean and it'll work. Pile on effects and drive, and it still works. Different pickups? Still works. Follow guitar root notes? Good and thick- it works. Play something completely different? Good stuff. How loud should you be relative to the guitars? Where do you want the instrument to sit in a mix? Pick or fingers? Both? Use a guitar head instead of a bass head? Flatwounds? You get to pick all these things, and define "your bass sound", or your sound can just be "plug it in and see what happens"- because a bassist has the extra flexibility to define their role for themselves, whereas high-gain guitar always does what high-gain guitar does.

I usually play clean into an SVT pre with a Jazz bass, but I could show up with a fretless, with humbuckers and roundwounds, and a darkglass with ALL THE GAIN and still play the same music. Sure it would sound different, but there's no "that's not what your bass is supposed to do". Like if you usually had an 8 string through and Engl, but instead showed up with a Tele and a Fender Twin with 8 chorus pedals chained together for some reason- you just don't have that freedom.


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## coreysMonster (Jul 23, 2016)

Ok finally got a chance to isolate the bass tracks (not edited, a couple of flubbed notes here and there). Here are two versions, both are identical, three tracks, low/mid/high, with low entirely clean and high distorted, but the first one has the mids distorted as well, and the second one has the mids clean.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3782733/bassDig2.mp3

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3782733/bassDig3.mp3

Both work in the mix (at least better than the one from the last page). Still doesn't have that nasally twang that the Nolly video has, but it's close enough to what I wanted to get. If anyone has any more suggestions of what I'm not doing right / what I could do better I'm always willing to keep working on it.


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## A-Branger (Jul 23, 2016)

Herrick said:


> Really? That's one of the things I love about bass. I just plug it in and it usually sounds good to my ears. With guitar, I'm constantly messing around with my amp and pedal to get a sound I like. Maybe it's because my ideal bass sound is really simple.



same here. I just pick a good amp with a nice EQ on it and Im happy. I dont like any pedals, jsut clean bass, if I need to teak something I do on the bass, mostly to suit the place or band to help me cut more.

Now I want a different sound that I can only find by getting a new bass with different pickup combinations. Im leaning towards a J style, but dual humbuckers also work for what I want now



coreysMonster said:


> This is where I'm at right now. I forgot to isolate the bass track but here's how it's sounding in the mix, I'll have to post the isolated track after work. Track isn't finished yet, but the bass at least fits way better now than it did with the last version.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3782733/pain_demoNoVOX_06.mp3



yeah it sounds a bit honky as you say. To see what are you EQing

otehr than that I would say you need more definition on the kickdrum, its getting buried in the background. That would give you the tightness and punch the bass need. Thats another trick for bass players to sound huge, play with the kick, always play with the kick


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