# NGD: BRJ custom Jekyll 828



## Hollowway (Sep 18, 2012)

It's been a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time coming, but I finally have this beast. I'm just a couple months shy of 3 years since I first placed my deposit, and so without further ado, here it is. And, I've seen a rash of lame sauce NGD threads on there lately, so I will attempt to regale you with a proper picture laden story, in true SSO fashion, as would have done my fatha, and his fatha before him...

So here's the box that finally arrived from Fedex. Note that if I were to order a replacement part for a dishwasher or something, the delivery guy would be here at 8:01 am. A guitar, though? No. The Fedex guys have been properly trained to identify guitar sized boxes, and make those the last drop offs of the day.  But anyway, here's what I came home to:







and, of course there's the weapon/opener of choice. I chose to go all Forensic Files/CSI on this one:






How many locks does it take to get to the center of a BRJ? A one...





a two...





a three!





Did that make you think of this guy? 





OK, maybe not. You bastards are all too young to remember him.

And then...

TA DAAA!





And here's a few outdoor shots I sneaked in before sunset:
















More after the jump...


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## jjcor (Sep 18, 2012)

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hollowway (Sep 18, 2012)

Gotta love the oiled back and sides look:





And I was super worried about the Kahler causing the action to be too high since the neck angle wouldn't be enough. Here's how it looks like he solves that: A shim under the edge of the neck to cause the fretboard to be higher. Kind of weird, but I guess that's how it's done.





And then a couple of flaws, that don't bug me too much, but should be pointed out. The inlays have a decent amount of filler around them. I know that's a pretty common thing (I've seen some Vik inlays like that as well) but I'm a fan of super tight ones. I couldn't get a photo to show up, though.

And then there are a couple of areas of separation of the top and the body. Just a page thickness. It doesn't bother me, but here's the question: Is this bad? Might it separate more? Should I flow some wood glue in there?





and lastly, check out the pole pieces of the Aftermaths: They don't line up under the highest and lowest strings. Not a fault of Bernie's here, since the Kahler and the pups are as is. But is this normal? I could widen the Kahler saddles a bit, but I don't have a lot to work with, as they're already pretty close to the edge.





I haven't really put it through it's paces, but it's set up really well. The action is nice and low, and the neck is juuuust bowed enough to not be dead flat - just how I like it. 

And now if you'll excuse me, I have a guitar to be playing....


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## absolutorigin (Sep 18, 2012)

Awesome guitar. Strange about the separation of the top and body though. Glad it's finally in your hands.


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## glassmoon0fo (Sep 18, 2012)

Gorgeous guitar man, glad you finally got it! And I wouldn't worry too much about the alignment of the pole peices, I've found that they dont make much of a difference if they're only off by that much. Enjoy that beast!


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## MetalDaze (Sep 18, 2012)

The eagle has landed!


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## Hollowway (Sep 18, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> And I wouldn't worry too much about the alignment of the pole peices, I've found that they dont make much of a difference if they're only off by that much. Enjoy that beast!



Yeah, I just think it's weird they didn't line up right away. I might compare this Kahler to the one I have on my old Interceptor 827 and see what the difference is.


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## mphsc (Sep 18, 2012)

Congrats man. What a wise ol owl.


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## ThePhilosopher (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm glad you finally got it, but it's a bit underwhelming for 3 year wait (at least in the photos). I'm curious to hear about the Kahler on the Agile.


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## Church2224 (Sep 18, 2012)

I would talk to him about the top separating from the body. That might be a structural issue and could get worse over time

Also, that "shim" for the Kahler, why didn't he just angle the neck? 

I'd talk to Bernie and send it back. You waited how long for that guitar and it has those issues? Unacceptable.


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## ibanez4lifesz (Sep 18, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about the separation personally...fill it with some wood glue to keep the interior from exposure, and forget about it. 

As for the shim, interesting way to do it....if it works, it works I guess. 

Congrats on finally getting the guitar...hope you're happy with it!


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## elq (Sep 19, 2012)

It's about damn time! 

But I really agree with Church2224


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Sep 19, 2012)

I surely notice some common issues reguarding my recently arrived BRJ Hesperian 824:

1 - are you sure they're BKP Aftermaths? Aftermaths and Warpigs usually have two rows of screw poles instead of just one row of screws and the other with normal magnetic poles like Painkiller, Nailbomb, etc. 
Weirdly enough, I've ordered an Aftermath bridge and Painkiller neck, and both of these came with two rows of screw poles, so I thought the neck was an Aftermath too. I contacted Tim @ BKP showing him the neck pickup and giving him an audio sample of it, and he thinks it's a Painkiller (it sounds like it actually) with just two rows of screws which is an option they offer on other models but it's just weird it came that way imho.

2 - I have a small hole between top and body too, near the lower horn/neck thru area, it seems there's some glue sticking out too. Nothing bad but, as you are, I'm worried it might enlarge overtime. I asked Bernie and he reassured me it won't, but who knows...

3 - same here with inlays, but the filler is barely visible

4 - there's a little bit of gloss paint applied to the top that goes on the edge of the fretboard near the lower horn, again, very minor but still...

5 - side dots are not aligned by themselves and not even with the side dot inlays, not perceivable at first sight but it's there. I don't see that issue with your side dots though.

6 - My poles are perfectly aligned with the strings so I don't have your issue.

Regardless of these (imho) minor flaws, I still think the guitar plays superb and has an unbelievably tight tone and responsiveness, and I'm sure yours is equally good in these departments!


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## TMM (Sep 19, 2012)

Daaaaayum, that looks nice. Love the ninja stars. Wouldn't have picked a Kahler myself, but sweet otherwise.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

So I've been playing this for a while. It plays REALLY well. I didn't have to do any set up at all - just tune the strings. I'm exceptionally happy with the playability and all the stuff having to do with the actual performance of it.

I looked up online how to deal with the separation of the body from the top wood, and it sounds pretty simple - flow glue in there and clamp shut. I can use my fingers to squeeze the top down, so I'm tempted to do it. I just really don't want to send it back and have to wait. But if I do it I have to make sure I don't dent the wood. 

My side dots are not aligned well, either. I didn't even check those out until you pointed them out, but I have a few of them that aren't aligned with the others, and the two at the 12th fret aren't aligned with each other.

Any other way of telling an Aftermath from anything else, other than taking it out of the guitar? I'm not thrilled about disassembling it so soon, but I do want to know what's in there if they don't appear the way normal Aftertmaths do.

EDIT: Just popped the bridge pickup out and checked the back. Turns out they don't label them, so that isn't a deciding factor. I have another 8 with Aftermaths, so I'll try to A/B them to see what's what. I can't really tell just listening. Once I get a chance to plug into my amp I'll make sure I like the sound before deciding if I need to worry about it. Really, so long as it sounds good I'm happy.


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## elq (Sep 19, 2012)

AFAIK BKP do not label their pickups in any way (at least I've never seen one labeled, except with a sharpie from the prior owner), so even taking them out of the guitar won't help.


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## Cremated (Sep 19, 2012)

Happy NGD man. Love the red finish, and BRJ's reverse inlines are fucking sick. It's a shame about the flaws though. I'd be kinda disappointed after a 3 year wait.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

OK, so here's the scoop on the pickups. I measured the DC resistance (installed). What do you guys think I've got going here?

Reference guitar that I KNOW has Aftermaths, with a 3 way selector, volume:
Bridge 15.03
Neck 12.28

The BRJ, 3 way selector, tone and volume:
Bridge 15.86
Neck 10.94


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## JaeSwift (Sep 19, 2012)

My Aftermath 7 is exactly like yours so I wouldn't worry about it.

Regarding the top "separation", in my experience its not necassarily actual separation, just an untight joint caused by under clamping. You can check this by trying to insert a piece of paper there; if it doesn't fit its actually just dried glue your seeing, which is sloppy but harmless.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Sep 19, 2012)

Here's a sample of my "supposed to be" Painkiller neck 8 with two rows of scews, guitar has same specs as yours so maybe listen to the dynamics and response to pick attack to check if you've got the same model https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5864881/bkp_neck.mp3

I have pics of the issues but I'd prefer not to derail your happy NGD, congratz on an awesome looking and playing instrument!


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## AnarchyDivine88 (Sep 19, 2012)

Congratulations on finally getting this thing! Now you won't have to watch angrily as other people get their BRJs lol. I've seen you post with frustration and anticipation on almost every BRJ NGD, including my own, and in my mind you've become the poster boy of BRJ waiting periods  Well in the end you've got a gorgeous guitar!

I agree that you should have something done about those flaws. I think you should have Bernie do something about it though, rather than doing it yourself. After all, you paid and waited for a masterfully crafted instrument by an esteemed luthier, and that's what you should get. Not a project. You've already waited almost 3 years for it, what's another week or two? That's probably all it would take seeing as you're in the same state, so shipping would be quick. Or maybe you should just drive over there and make him fix it  I don't blame him for making a few mistakes though. He obviously has had a lot on his plate over the past few years! 

Well in any case, it still looks like an awesome guitar, so HNBRJD!!!


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

AnarchyDivine88 said:


> I agree that you should have something done about those flaws. I think you should have Bernie do something about it though, rather than doing it yourself. After all, you paid and waited for a masterfully crafted instrument by an esteemed luthier, and that's what you should get. Not a project. You've already waited almost 3 years for it, what's another week or two? That's probably all it would take seeing as you're in the same state, so shipping would be quick. Or maybe you should just drive over there and make him fix it  I don't blame him for making a few mistakes though. He obviously has had a lot on his plate over the past few years!
> 
> Well in any case, it still looks like an awesome guitar, so HNBRJD!!!



Thanks! Yeah, I'm thinking of going down there to Disneyland later this fall, so maybe I'll ask him if I can swing by the shop. I can, in fact, slide a piece of paper into the 2 points of separation, so that's what worries me. I actually don't mind that it is separated, since it's on the bottom edge, and you can't see it unless you look closely. But I don't want it to end up harming the guitar in some way over the next 20 or whatever years. I'd like the dots to line up better on the side, but TBH this isn't the only guitar I have with the side dots screwed up. I would think that's one of the easier things to do when building a guitar, but I see it more often than you'd think. 
And then for the pickups, I'm not sure what they are, but I do like the sound, so I'm likely OK with it, but I actually have a BFR BRJ ordered as well, so if these are painkillers I'm going to ask him to put Aftermaths in the other one just to have a variety.


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## JaeSwift (Sep 19, 2012)

If you can slide a piece of paper in you NEED to get it fixed, especially since the bottom half is oiled. it could warp and ecome bigger or even start cracking.


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## AnarchyDivine88 (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> if these are painkillers I'm going to ask him to put Aftermaths in the other one just to have a variety.



Yeah, that's a good idea. Painkillers sound incredible, so it definitely wouldn't hurt to have both.

Seeing your Rico makes me wish mine wasn't natural  He does some beautiful stains!


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Sep 19, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> I would talk to him about the top separating from the body. That might be a structural issue and could get worse over time
> 
> Also, that "shim" for the Kahler, why didn't he just angle the neck?
> 
> I'd talk to Bernie and send it back. You waited how long for that guitar and it has those issues? Unacceptable.



QFT. 

A user here called Geofreesun also had an issue with separation of wood, both of the top from the bottom piece, and in between the bookmatched top pieces. According to geofreesun Bernie claimed it was damaged in shipping but this same issue coming up more than once may be that Bernie handles the guitar before the glue has fully dried due to how much of a hurry he is in. Unacceptable in my opinion. 

Maybe pm geofreesun to see how he handled it.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> If you can slide a piece of paper in you NEED to get it fixed, especially since the bottom half is oiled. it could warp and ecome bigger or even start cracking.



So you know a lot about this stuff, is this something I can do by myself? I read online that you just force some glue in there and clamp it. I'd have to make damn sure I clamp it in a way so I don't dent the wood, though. 
Or could I just flow glue in there and not clamp it?

Bottom line, I'm not sure I want to send it back down there because I can't guarantee it will come back asap, and I reeeeeeaaaallly don't want to go without again.


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## JaeSwift (Sep 19, 2012)

I would personally never think of clamping anything that is laquered. To me that seems like the number 1 way to get stress cracks in the finish.

Honestly, send it back. Think of it like this; 

In my experience, maple isn't the most stable wood ever, especially when it's thin. Now some say figured maple is even less stable. The underside of that maple is unsealed and exposed as well as the top side of the mahogany, which is only oiled and not sealed with laquer. It's an effective moisture trap IMO. You may never have a problem with it, or you will. To me it seems like too big a risk to take for an expensive instrument that you waited almost 3 years on.


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## Minoin (Sep 19, 2012)

First of, awesome photo story 

Now the guitar is really really nice! 

Fcked up about the wood seperation though, I think SpaceS has a good point that Bernie might be rushing his guitars to the door. I don't think that a good thing in custom shop land.


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## kruneh (Sep 19, 2012)

First of all congrats, about time.
Also, thanks for a fast review with pics 

I hope Bernie gets backto you regarding the flaws.
The gap, I don´t know, but as JaeSwift says, clamping a laquered top isn´t something I would have done myself.
Best of luck!


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## jephjacques (Sep 19, 2012)

I would be heartbroken if I waited 3 years for a guitar and it didn't show up perfect. Hope you can get the issues with this one fixed in a timely manner.


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## AndreasD (Sep 19, 2012)

In my opinion, even the smallest issues on a custom instrument with a 3-year wait time and a 2k+ price tag are unacceptable. Unaligned pole pieces, bad side dots and lousy joinery are something you would expect on a Chinese knock-off. The shim under the fretboard also looks a bit off but that might just be the light.

It is however very aesthetically pleasing, which makes the questionable quality even more of a shame. Get it back to BRJ so you can enjoy it without having to worry about the top falling off (bit of an exaggeration).


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## IbanezDaemon (Sep 19, 2012)

I wouldn't even know what to do with an 8 string guitar but
damn that is one gorgeous guitar, truly stunning!!!


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## capoeiraesp (Sep 19, 2012)

Very nice looking guitar dude. However, it needs to be returned and fixed by Bernie. Clamping and gluing with laquer is not an acceptable resolution to this issue and, without personal experience, I tend to think it will be problematic. Hardened laquer is not going react like unfinished clamped wood.
Edit: that neck shim is really upsetting to see. It detracts so much from the overall appearance of the guitar. Sorry to sound like a negative Nancy.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 19, 2012)

I have to agree here - an instrument worth this much is not allowed to have such glaring flaws. 

I am rather disconcerted by the shim on the neck. Usually, the course of action is to either recess the Kahler or angle the neck from the get go, never to insert wood between neck and fingerboard.

The top / body separation can have a number of serious consequences, as the exposed wood is now vulnerable to contraction and expansion on its own accord, which tends to worsen the problem.

Honestly, send the thing back to Bernie to have that sorted. Very pretty instrument, though.


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## ikarus (Sep 19, 2012)

nice!!!


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## ikarus (Sep 19, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> Honestly, send the thing back to Bernie to have that sorted.



... and get it back in another 3 years. 

nice guitar though.


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## Church2224 (Sep 19, 2012)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> QFT.
> 
> A user here called Geofreesun also had an issue with separation of wood, both of the top from the bottom piece, and in between the bookmatched top pieces. According to geofreesun Bernie claimed it was damaged in shipping but this same issue coming up more than once may be that Bernie handles the guitar before the glue has fully dried due to how much of a hurry he is in. Unacceptable in my opinion.
> 
> Maybe pm geofreesun to see how he handled it.



That was the exact guitar that came to mind when I saw this one. It was unacceptable and we made a big deal about it then, why should it be acceptable now?


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## geofreesun (Sep 19, 2012)

i just saw this post. ya, it reminds me of my brj bfr. except mine had the split between the 2 pieces of top wood. there was also a few slight gap on the neck, between fingerboard binding and neck wood. mine is being rebuilt and i hope it will finish soon. bernie was nice to promise a rebuild right away when i got on the phone with him. he let me keep the guitar while waiting for the rebuild, so i guess you might be able to do the same? because, there is nothing much you can do to 'fix' this guitar.


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## axxessdenied (Sep 19, 2012)

HNGD...


But, I just have to tell you that I would be pretty damn disappointed if my guitar arrived like that. My DC800 arrived with a couple flaws that are really insignificant compared to your guitar and they will pay for shipping and fix it all up for me.

You waited around 3 years and you got a guitar with that kind of poor quality control? Shame. I'm glad you are happy but, I definitely would be furious after waiting that long and paying a premium.


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## canuck brian (Sep 19, 2012)




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## glassmoon0fo (Sep 19, 2012)

Man, it seems like were dipping into the realm of a guitar as an exercise of art rather than a tool of music. I can totally understand the issue with the top, its unfortunate that wood behaves the way it does sometimes, but i also understand that mistakes will happen when an entire forum puts pressure on a man to get one persons guitar out the door in a hurry. A bit hypocritical of us as a group imo. Holloway, listen to your own standards of excellence in deciding what to do. How does the guitar sound, how does it feel when you play it, and how willing are you to make the simple fix yourself? I ask myelf these same questions anytime i get a guitar from any builder, and remind myself that some of the best players on the planet make legendary albums with beat-to-shit guitars. A simple matter of picking your battles. It may not be worth it to keep the guitar after the time and money spent, ut thats your decision alone. Im sure bernie would help how he can either way. Good luck man!


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 19, 2012)

One of my fav BRJs to date...


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## canuck brian (Sep 19, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> I can totally understand the issue with the top, its unfortunate that wood behaves the way it does sometimes, but i also understand that mistakes will happen when an entire forum puts pressure on a man to get one persons guitar out the door in a hurry.



Wood does not behave that way and 3 years is a far cry from being in a hurry. I rarely chime in on other builders, but this is unacceptable. I would expect to be drawn and quartered by the online community if i did this. 

If it does behave that way, please find me a pic of a Jackson soloist from the last...oh....20 years that has had a similar issue.

Building a guitar *IS* art. You take pride in your art. Do you record music, hit 10 or so notes completely off key and say "whatever"? NO. You go back and do it RIGHT.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Sep 19, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> Man, it seems like were dipping into the realm of a guitar as an exercise of art rather than a tool of music. I can totally understand the issue with the top, its unfortunate that wood behaves the way it does sometimes, but i also understand that mistakes will happen when an entire forum puts pressure on a man to get one persons guitar out the door in a hurry. A bit hypocritical of us as a group imo. Holloway, listen to your own standards of excellence in deciding what to do. How does the guitar sound, how does it feel when you play it, and how willing are you to make the simple fix yourself? I ask myelf these same questions anytime i get a guitar from any builder, and remind myself that some of the best players on the planet make legendary albums with beat-to-shit guitars. A simple matter of picking your battles. It may not be worth it to keep the guitar after the time and money spent, ut thats your decision alone. Im sure bernie would help how he can either way. Good luck man!



Are you serious? Really?

You paid some good money for that guitar, I reckon. I returned an SR705 that I got on sale because when I opened the box in the store it had some road rash on the headstock and when the knobs turned they scratched against the wood. There is no way I'd be willing to accept these types of issues on a custom that I had built for me.

Beat-to-shit guitars don't cost "pristine perfect custom" prices, glassmoon0fo. It's utter insanity to say that after waiting 3 years he should be okay with fixing something like this himself.


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## WillDfx (Sep 19, 2012)

Holy shit, I cannot get over how they put a piece of wood between the neck and fingerboard! That's like some high quality trailer park riggin' right thar!



I'm glad you got it though. Congratulations!


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## Solaris (Sep 19, 2012)

Damn! Thing looks awesome man! Congratz! One question though, does that thing have a lot of neck dive or does it balance well?


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## djpharoah (Sep 19, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> Man, it seems like were dipping into the realm of a guitar as an exercise of art rather than a tool of music. I can totally understand the issue with the top, its unfortunate that wood behaves the way it does sometimes, but i also understand that mistakes will happen when an entire forum puts pressure on a man to get one persons guitar out the door in a hurry. A bit hypocritical of us as a group imo. Holloway, listen to your own standards of excellence in deciding what to do. How does the guitar sound, how does it feel when you play it, and how willing are you to make the simple fix yourself? I ask myelf these same questions anytime i get a guitar from any builder, and remind myself that some of the best players on the planet make legendary albums with beat-to-shit guitars. A simple matter of picking your battles. It may not be worth it to keep the guitar after the time and money spent, ut thats your decision alone. Im sure bernie would help how he can either way. Good luck man!


Sorry but you're out of your mind if you can actually believe that 

The guitar I'm sure to the OP looks like the final revelation of 3yrs of waiting and a lot of money BUT this guitar has flaws that should not have ever allowed it to be released especially as this is a full on custom from BRJ and not one of the Black Friday runs for 2 or 3 yrs ago.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 19, 2012)

I will repeat myself here: that is NOT acceptable, and no "wood" doesn't "behave that way". At all. I own a fucking 1968 Les Paul. Where is the top now? Flush against the body, that's where. How's the neck? Tilted in perfect alignment with the bridge. "Eh? What bridge is that?" I hear you ask. A Kahler prototype that was fitted by her previous owner way back in the day. Guess what, I don't have any shims there, or on my former, straight necked KxK with a Kahler, by the way.

I don't want to sound too abrasive here, but I've had enough of the eternal excuses pertaining some defects. If a niggle such as one sidemarker being slightly off is negligible, basic woodworking and construction details are not, especially stuff that speaks worlds pertaining the attention to detail and to the final quality of the very structural aspects of the guitar.

I can see a homemade guitar with a shim under the fingerboard, not a 2K USD plus custom made instrument. Especially not when the thing wasn't exactly ordered a month ago with such urgency that "anything goes". The top not being properly glued means that clamping and / or shaping were utter, unexcusable shit. I have been beating up guitars with tops of various descriptions for 20 years now, and I have NEVER seen anything like that go past QC.


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## glassmoon0fo (Sep 19, 2012)

Damn  As a simple bedroom shredder and hobbiest, I guess I just choose to not take it that seriously  Im not looking to make excuses for bernie himself either, just didnt want holloway to get his bloodpressure up over other peoples opinions. Didnt seem like he minded as much as the rest of you do when he got it, and if youre going to look to the internet community for reassurance, maybe a balances viewpoint is valuable. I learned that here actually.


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## themike (Sep 19, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> I will repeat myself here: that is NOT acceptable, and no "wood" doesn't "behave that way".


 
I've never seen you swear..........and I kind of like it


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> Im not looking to make excuses for bernie himself either





glassmoon0fo said:


> its unfortunate that wood behaves the way it does sometimes, but i also understand that mistakes will happen when an entire forum puts pressure on a man to get one persons guitar out the door in a hurry.



So wood can go all wacky and the forum put pressure on "a man", but you're not making any excuses.  

You're way too attached to Bernie man. I'm sorry, but I've seen too many threads where you've lost your cool over this issue. This is what it is, a flawed guitar. Hollowway can keep it, chuck it in a river, send it back, whatever.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I just emailed Bernie to tell him about it. I checked Redbeard's original 828 Jekyll (the one that inspired me to order this) and there is no neck shim, so I'm thinking the woodshop guys maybe built this as a hardtail, then realized they need a higher neck angle and added the shim?

Anyway, I asked Bernie to do a rebuild, and I'm sure he will - he's already rebuilt it 2 times in addition to the original. Anyway, FWIW, it plays really well and the finish itself is excellent.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2012)

I hope the next one is better Andy!


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## djpharoah (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Thanks for all of the advice, guys. I just emailed Bernie to tell him about it. I checked Redbeard's original 828 Jekyll (the one that inspired me to order this) and there is no neck shim, so I'm thinking the woodshop guys maybe built this as a hardtail, then realized they need a higher neck angle and added the shim?
> 
> Anyway, I asked Bernie to do a rebuild, and I'm sure he will - he's already rebuilt it 2 times in addition to the original. Anyway, FWIW, it plays really well and the finish itself is excellent.


I was gonna say this guitar looks like it was made for a hipshot till someone realized they couldn't recess the kahler deep enough due to the thinner body.

Good luck and make sure you get what you paid for and hold onto this guitar till then.


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## Jexey (Sep 19, 2012)

It's time to pay the shop a fucking visit Holloway. Hold some shit ransom. You're an innocent 3 year old puppy dog and he just kicked you.


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## MetalDaze (Sep 19, 2012)

I think the saddest part is that it seems like Bernie is sending out guitars with the hopes that no one will notice the flaws or be too timid to say anything about them (or perhaps not care).

He knows that we all post pics of these guitars on here, so I'm surprised that he would continue to do this as it only creates more chaos.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 19, 2012)

You see, what really shocks me is how this translates easily to not caring about the customer. This, like any other business where competition is fierce, requires happy customers for you to put food on the plate, so if the ethical aspect is negligible to some they still hold customer satisfaction in high standing due to the way market works.

I'd personally be very embarrassed if, after a customer had been waiting for my work for ages, they got a bunch of tracks with horrible tone and a bunch of bum notes, translating this to my activity, but even if it didn't affect my respect for others and pride in my work, I'd still not do it as it would not only imply a non-returning customer but also poor feedback being given to others that might use my services.

There are many aspects regarding this operation that have become rather ridiculous as of late, and letting something as glaring as a partially unglued top and a puzzle for a neck slide is pretty mind boggling if you ask me. What is one expecting (assuming the thing was even inspected properly, of course)? That the customer goes "Fuck yeah! What a revolutionary approach to multi-ply neck construction and just look at that awesome tone chamber on the side!"?.


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## Winspear (Sep 19, 2012)

Issues aside - sick looking guitar! Looks like it plays very well. One of the few BRJ's to interest me aesthetically. Not helping my Kahler gas in the slightest.


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## mphsc (Sep 19, 2012)

I hate this for you man, so undeserving. 3 years is absolutely crazy. I'd keep that one until the new one comes, or better yet, get all my money back & put it with a builder that gives a shit. Didn't you go through a dealer? If so, they should be bitching as well. 

I'm so glad I waited to put a deposit with Rico, someone else will be getting those monies.


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## glassmoon0fo (Sep 19, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So wood can go all wacky and the forum put pressure on "a man", but you're not making any excuses.
> 
> You're way too attached to Bernie man. I'm sorry, but I've seen too many threads where you've lost your cool over this issue. This is what it is, a flawed guitar. Hollowway can keep it, chuck it in a river, send it back, whatever.


 
Thought about that after, and we agree I cut the guy "too much" slack. I don't know him personally so it isn't any particular attachment, but maybe its because I don't understand the need for all the detailed inspection. Structural issues aside (I'd fix or have the top separation fixed), small imperfections don't make me any less of a guitar player, and therefore dont really depreciate my value of the instrument. 

Enough of the hijacking and explaining myself, its cool if most people don't agree with me on something as long as it's not hurting anything more than feelings. Andy's getting what HE wants done, so seems like all's well. 

Maybe you guys should be weary of buying things from me


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## JaeSwift (Sep 19, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> You see, what really shocks me is how this translates easily to not caring about the customer. This, like any other business where competition is fierce, requires happy customers for you to put food on the plate, so if the ethical aspect is negligible to some they still hold customer satisfaction in high standing due to the way market works.
> 
> I'd personally be very embarrassed if, after a customer had been waiting for my work for ages, they got a bunch of tracks with horrible tone and a bunch of bum notes, translating this to my activity, but even if it didn't affect my respect for others and pride in my work, I'd still not do it as it would not only imply a non-returning customer but also poor feedback being given to others that might use my services.
> 
> There are many aspects regarding this operation that have become rather ridiculous as of late, and letting something as glaring as a partially unglued top and a puzzle for a neck slide is pretty mind boggling if you ask me. What is one expecting (assuming the thing was even inspected properly, of course)? That the customer goes "Fuck yeah! What a revolutionary approach to multi-ply neck construction and just look at that awesome tone chamber on the side!"?.



It's a fallacy to luthiery. It's gonna end up kicking him in the rear though. I'm just glad I'm not an artist being endorsed by him cuz I'de feel pretty bad.



glassmoon0fo said:


> Thought about that after, and we agree I cut the guy "too much" slack. I don't know him personally so it isn't any particular attachment, but maybe its because I don't understand the need for all the detailed inspection. Structural issues aside (I'd fix or have the top separation fixed), small imperfections don't make me any less of a guitar player, and therefore dont really depreciate my value of the instrument.
> 
> Enough of the hijacking and explaining myself, its cool if most people don't agree with me on something as long as it's not hurting anything more than feelings. Andy's getting what HE wants done, so seems like all's well.
> 
> Maybe you guys should be weary of buying things from me



I get the over-detailing here sometimes (OMG THE FRET ENDS  ) but this is inexcusable. Look at builders like Acacia. They are similairly (cheaper afaik) priced and hammer out a constant stream of good looking axes. Then there's;

-Blackat guitars 
-Skervesen is now up and coming
-Blackwater guitars too

Though the last two two in particular (but the first two as well) don't exactly pump out the same volume as BRJ, they still have a pretty high production rate, especially Blackat/Skervesen. I highly doubt they would let this go through and just hope on a timid reaction. Especially the crack but also the shoddy shim is inexcusable for a ''luthier'' that's supposed to be a master builder and carries the legacy he does.

In fact, maybe this is where the SS.org did do a good contribution on Hollowway's behalf because yes, maybe at first he would have been ok with it (I can't speak for you man so I'm just making an assumption  ) but he should not have been. I'm very glad for his sake that he decided to have it rebuilt instead of wait a year and have that crack become increasingly big and god knows what other problems what come along with it. It must have sucked to swallow that pill knowing how long you've waited but it is definitely for the best because you, as a consumer, deserve better than this.


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## axxessdenied (Sep 19, 2012)

Hopefully they build your guitar the right way this time! It's a great looking axe. It's a damn shame that they did what looks like a half-assed job. They are only hurting themselves in the long run by not keeping on top of quality control. So, this is going to be the *THIRD* time they rebuild it?


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## Galius (Sep 19, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> There are many aspects regarding this operation that have become rather ridiculous as of late, and letting something as glaring as a partially unglued top and a puzzle for a neck slide is pretty mind boggling if you ask me. What is one expecting (assuming the thing was even inspected properly, of course)? That the customer goes "Fuck yeah! What a revolutionary approach to multi-ply neck construction and just look at that awesome tone chamber on the side!"?.



You sir worded this as good as it could be put 
I had to explain the whole discussion to my lady and she got quite a chuckle as well after hearing me roaring laughing at the computer.

Sometimes when I get a guitar and look it over i find smaller flaws than on this guitar I wonder if I should even bother, but the truth is that no matter what youre paying a guitar should be well crafted and you should have no doubt in your mind that youre happy with it. I would find these flaws unacceptable even on a $1000 guitar.

I recently had one of my DC800s come with a small scrape in the paint and a scratched pickup. Luckily these things were small and Carvin was quick to go above my expectations in service. But the point is that If even if my Carvin had the flaws yours had it would be not be Ok, and im sure they would quickly take care of it. Not so say Bernie wouldnt take care of you, but that I would be picky over even smaller things than what you have. 

Another example is that awhile back I got a Damien Elite with some wonky binding and quickly had it exchanged. It wasnt anything that affected the playability but still. 

Im sure it sucks waiting for such an instrument to arrive but the flaws you have arent forgivable like the small ones I even had taken care of in my less costly instruments. I hope you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

OK, so good news. I emailed Bernie and he asked me to call him. He said he wants me to be totally happy with the build, but at the same time he feels bad that it's taken so long, and so he's rebuilding it, but I'm going to hang on to this one until the new one is done. As I said, the good news is it plays really well, and the action, etc. are outstanding, so I'm stoked to actually have the thing in my hands, and keep it until the new one is done.


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## djpharoah (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> OK, so good news. I emailed Bernie and he asked me to call him. He said he wants me to be totally happy with the build, but at the same time he feels bad that it's taken so long, and so he's rebuilding it, but I'm going to hang on to this one until the new one is done. As I said, the good news is it plays really well, and the action, etc. are outstanding, so I'm stoked to actually have the thing in my hands, and keep it until the new one is done.




ETA for the rebuild?


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## Galius (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> OK, so good news. I emailed Bernie and he asked me to call him. He said he wants me to be totally happy with the build, but at the same time he feels bad that it's taken so long, and so he's rebuilding it, but I'm going to hang on to this one until the new one is done. As I said, the good news is it plays really well, and the action, etc. are outstanding, so I'm stoked to actually have the thing in my hands, and keep it until the new one is done.



Good to hear. I figured that Bernie would take care of you. Honestly im a bit shocked that the guitar had those issues in the first place.


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## geofreesun (Sep 19, 2012)

i think i am in the same boat. mine was done last december and i remember he saying 3 months for the rebuild. i am still waiting on the rebuild to finish. it should be very close to done. the last picture i got from bernie is the guitar out of woodshop, ready for finish and electronics etc. fingers crossed. good luck to you!


djpharoah said:


> ETA for the rebuild?


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## WickedSymphony (Sep 19, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> ETA for the rebuild?



You're seriously asking this? Really? REALLY?!


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## HighGain510 (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> OK, so good news. I emailed Bernie and he asked me to call him. He said he wants me to be totally happy with the build, but at the same time he feels bad that it's taken so long, and so he's rebuilding it, but I'm going to hang on to this one until the new one is done. As I said, the good news is it plays really well, and the action, etc. are outstanding, so I'm stoked to actually have the thing in my hands, and keep it until the new one is done.



While it's nice that he's expressing that sentiment over the phone, I'd be sure to express that you expect it to be rebuilt correct in a SHORT amount of time, not so much that he would have his "shop" rush through and send you another flawed up guitar, but none of this "yeah I'll hit you back next year..." bullshit he's been pulling with rebuilds. I have no ties to Bernie and no order placed with him, but the way he's been treating people (even down to stuff like this, that guitar should NOT have left his shop, the flaws on this thing are glaringly bad and down to the structural-level on the guitar) is really getting to me. I feel for you dude, I hope he fixes this and I feel badly for you having waited 3 years to receive THAT as the end product. 



djpharoah said:


> ETA for the rebuild?



I'll just quote this again for additional emphasis. Remember back when Mikernaut had posted about his red BRJ that was going to be rebuilt on the fast track...? I don't even remember how long ago it was, it's been that long.  Unless he forgot to post an NGD thread, I don't believe he has his yet. If he claims he will rebuild it, DEMAND a timeframe so you're not looking at another 3+ years to get another piece like this. 



Issues like this:







and this:






have no business being found anywhere on a guitar that was not made in a third world country by people without fingers, much less a "custom shop guitar" that takes 3 years to finally see the light of day.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Sep 19, 2012)

3 years... Christ, that would have killed me.

HNGD!


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## elq (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm glad it's getting rebuilt 




djpharoah said:


> ETA for the rebuild?



If Bernie gets right on it, there's a chance it might be done by my estimate in the other thread 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...updates-customers-ad-free-82.html#post3164525


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## WickedSymphony (Sep 19, 2012)

Btw, I'm glad your getting a rebuild Hollowway. It's really shitty that after 3 years the guitar arrived with problems that are completely unacceptable, but at least he's gonna fix it and get you a new one (eventually). As HighGain said, make sure you express that you want it rebuilt properly in a short amount of time, not a rush job or another year+ wait.

_As for everyone else getting BRJ's soon (or any new instrument really, expensive or not), let this be a reminder to make sure you do a full inspection upon receipt of your instrument just to make sure you don't find any glaring flaws you won't be able to live with later._

Also want to add I'm amazed you got him on the phone. He told me to call him last time I e-mailed him, which I'm guessing probably isn't good. But to sum up, I had already tried calling the shop before that e-mail but got no answer, tried calling the number he gave me in e-mail and got no answer there either, left a message and e-mailed again but still haven't heard back a week later.


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## trippled (Sep 19, 2012)

I must comment on this as someone who was on the list for a BFR too..

I really feel that the beginning of all of this mass initiated when Bernie started to accept more and more slots to the BFR list after he got deposits for 10 guitars that were scheduled to be done after 3-4 months(!).

I don't know what made him think that he can handle that much work load, 
but I kinda saw this coming after I understood what's going on, he simply took too many orders so it was clear that the attention to detail won't be what it used to be.

He was very nice to me, was always very kind and tried to do his best as far as pricing and what he'll accept to do\add, but you can't be nice to everyone, this was supposed to be a small run, all of sudden it feels like half of ss.org is having a BFR. This is not OK.

I then remember how I needed to fill in again the specs in each of the few times I contacted him for minor changes since he lost the former ones, I remember the promises for the guitar to be done in 2-3 months, or the promises for a progress picture, my guitar was in the "wood shop" the whole year and a half I've been waiting for it, and after I read about quality issues with the ones that were done I decided to sell my spot.

I'm really sorry for you man, Bernie has to build a new guitar for you, this is completely unacceptable after all this time and the 2K you paid.

I hope everyone will sort out their issues with their BFR's, I'm really sad to hear about this.


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## JaeSwift (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> OK, so good news. I emailed Bernie and he asked me to call him. He said he wants me to be totally happy with the build, but at the same time he feels bad that it's taken so long, and so he's rebuilding it, but I'm going to hang on to this one until the new one is done. As I said, the good news is it plays really well, and the action, etc. are outstanding, so I'm stoked to actually have the thing in my hands, and keep it until the new one is done.



Definitely the best solution to this situation. Hope it gets rebuilt fast.


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## trippled (Sep 19, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Definitely the best solution to this situation. Hope it gets rebuilt fast.



Ok, sounds good.


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## EOT (Sep 19, 2012)

trippled said:


> I really feel that the beginning of all of this mass initiated when Bernie started to accept more and more slots to the BFR list after he got deposits for 10 guitars that were scheduled to be done after 3-4 months(!).



Nope. It started much earlier than that...


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## Danukenator (Sep 19, 2012)

EDIT: Clearly, I didn't read the thread...

Damn, I'm sorry man. I was so excited to see this master piece. Well, although it must be a bummer, I guarantee that you will like a guitar without any of these issues far more!


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## trippled (Sep 19, 2012)

EOT said:


> Nope. It started much earlier than that...



What do you mean? Elaborate.


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## paddy (Sep 19, 2012)

the guitar itself looks very nice.
I'm sorry that you've had the same kind of experience as me though. But I'm not surprised to see this at all and I would suggest that you should send it back to Rico to sort it out for you. Custom shop guitar is not supposed to have this. I mean he could've rectified it before it left the shop. He must be aware of all the bad blood and yet he behaves this way. Cheeky f***.
What you could do is that you can send it back to him now and tell him that you'll be going to his neck of woods in autumn (so that you're not put at the back of the queue) and he should have it ready by then.
And take your time to check everywhere carefully before summing up all the flaws. Probably you'll see more.
Good Luck man.
Never again !
I'm wondering, do people still order guitars via him?


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## EOT (Sep 19, 2012)

trippled said:


> What do you mean? Elaborate.



I have one that is being rebuilt. And it was from before the BFR deal. I'm about a year and a half into the rebuild.

Mikernaut, as was mentioned on the last page, had one that needed rebuilt. I'm pretty sure it was from before the BFR. 

And elq had some pretty serious issues with his as well which he had posted quite a few pics of. Also before the BFR. 

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

EDIT: I think I can add Holowway's to that list as well. Since it was being built/rebuilt before and during the BFR...


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

trippled said:


> I'm really sorry for you man, Bernie has to build a new guitar for you, this is completely unacceptable after all this time and the 2K you paid.



Yeah, just for reference this isn't a BFR guitar. It's a full custom, so the price was that of a full custom - not 2K.


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## trippled (Sep 19, 2012)

WOW, I'm Speechless.....


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## Cappleton23 (Sep 19, 2012)

holy shit dude


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## gplayer51 (Sep 19, 2012)

I got painkillers with mine too, did you order yours and send them to him or did he just order them himself?


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

gplayer51 said:


> I got painkillers with mine too, did you order yours and send them to him or did he just order them himself?



No, I bought Aftermaths from Nick (Axe Palace) and he sent them to Bernie. But I think that since he's putting painkillers in all the BFRs he just did mine to, and forgot about the Aftermaths. Having played them, I like the sound of the painkillers, as they really thin out the beefy 8th string. If I were doing a short scale 8 I'd probably make PKs my first choice.

Anyway, the Aftermaths will go in the rebuild.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Sep 19, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Anyway, I asked Bernie to do a rebuild, and I'm sure he will - *he's already rebuilt it 2 times in addition to the original*. Anyway, FWIW, it plays really well and the finish itself is excellent.



Do you mind me asking why it was rebuilt 2 times before?

Also it's really cool that he's letting you hang onto it until the rebuild is done. Hopefully now that these issues have been brought to his attention, (again) he will keep a closer eye on your rebuild.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2012)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Do you mind me asking why it was rebuilt 2 times before?
> 
> Also it's really cool that he's letting you hang onto it until the rebuild is done. Hopefully now that these issues have been brought to his attention, (again) he will keep a closer eye on your rebuild.



Yeah, the one time the neck was made of mahogany, not maple, so he rebuilt that and sold the all mahogany one. In retrospect I should have just kept that one, but at the time I was all worried about the mahogany neck and body making the 8th string too muddy. And then I'm not sure what the second rebuild was for, as he did that without having to tell me about it. Something was just not right about it, so he scrapped it and started over.


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## elq (Sep 19, 2012)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Also it's really cool that he's letting you hang onto it until the rebuild is done. Hopefully now that these issues have been brought to his attention, (again) he will keep a closer eye on your rebuild.



What's really cool is how patient Hollowway has been for the last 3 years.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Sep 19, 2012)

elq said:


> What's really cool is how patient Hollowway has been for the last 3 years.



Yeah that's for damn sure.


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## mikernaut (Sep 20, 2012)

This makes me a sad panda. 
As for my guitar, it was ordered in 2009 and I received it January 2011. Waiting on the rebuild still. Bernie emailed me last week and we hopefully have worked something out.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Sep 20, 2012)

Wow I just caught up with this post. That's f-ing ridiculous dude. Mixing up pickups is one thing but those many flaws in a 3 year old ordered instrument? I sure as hell hope they don't mix up my pickups, although that would be hard considering they are a custom order from BKP. Frankly, I'm more concerned with getting my non-BFR custom without any rebuilds needed!

Shit, at least you get to hold onto the one you have until the rebuild is done. Plus it does play well and look gorgeous.


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## AnarchyDivine88 (Sep 20, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> "Fuck yeah! What a revolutionary approach to multi-ply neck construction and just look at that awesome tone chamber on the side!"?.


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## TomAwesome (Sep 20, 2012)

A shim, eh? Is that what that is? My BFR has one not unlike that (mine has a Hipshot bridge). It doesn't affect the playability, so I was afraid to say anything about it and risk getting a replacement with problems that actually affect the performance. I don't understand what could have gone wrong that this became a necessary practice. I've never even heard of a budget brand like Agile doing something like that. It's sloppy, and it's a shame. It seems like they're pumping out a lot of guitars that are almost really nice but that fall short because someone was lazy or careless, and worse yet, it doesn't seem like anything is being learned or changed as a result. I really like mine aside from the unsightliness of the shim (and the Sharpie on the pickup tabs), but I don't think I have enough faith in Bernie's operation to get another one, even though I'd like to get something else similar at some point. Hell, I'm afraid to get mine fixed.

On the plus side, that red looks amazing, and if you can get a replacement with these issues fixed, it should be a pretty solid shredder.


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## trippled (Sep 20, 2012)

TomAwesome said:


> A shim, eh? Is that what that is? My BFR has one not unlike that (mine has a Hipshot bridge). It doesn't affect the playability, so I was afraid to say anything about it and risk getting a replacement with problems that actually affect the performance. I don't understand what could have gone wrong that this became a necessary practice. I've never even heard of a budget brand like Agile doing something like that. It's sloppy, and it's a shame. It seems like they're pumping out a lot of guitars that are almost really nice but that fall short because someone was lazy or careless, and worse yet, it doesn't seem like anything is being learned or changed as a result. I really like mine aside from the unsightliness of the shim (and the Sharpie on the pickup tabs), but I don't think I have enough faith in Bernie's operation to get another one, even though I'd like to get something else similar at some point. Hell, I'm afraid to get mine fixed.
> 
> On the plus side, that red looks amazing, and if you can get a replacement with these issues fixed, it should be a pretty solid shredder.



Just ask to get a rebuild and keep it while he's building it like everyone else,
the dude needs to cut out the bullshit and take orders at an amount he can handle by himself.

I get pissed even when I write this, people actually paid for a full custom shop made by Bernie and got a flawed production line guitar(with a neck shim as part of the features)...


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## OlisDead (Sep 20, 2012)

I don't understand how there are sooooo much rebuilds. I've never heard such stories apart from BRJ. If he's a "master" luthier, it simply can't happen. Everyone can do mistakes but shipping flawed instruments is unacceptable from someone claiming he's a master luthier.

After reading all those stories, I'll surely never order anything from BRJ. I wonder how people can still order guitars from him. 3 years to receive a custom guitar with flaws doesn't sound good to me. 

I'd rather order a Daemoness or a Vik, those guys know what they do and the guitar I'll receive will worth the wait!


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## MJS (Sep 20, 2012)

Flaws aside, it's way nicer than anything I own -- and at least it's good news that he's going to make it right and let you keep that one while he does.

Even though the top separation is more of an issue than that shim, I have to admit that the shim would probably bug me more than if the whole top were to fall off.  

Others have mentioned that maybe it was built for a Hipshot and the shim was an afterthought... but even if that were the case, wouldn't it be easier & better looking to just route the body for the bridge? 

If shimming is the only way he does it, I'd either want the neck painted to hide it, or a different bridge that doesn't need shimming. 

Even a tapered fretboard would be a more acceptable solution than shimming and wouldn't be nearly as noticeable.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Bernie--he gets enough of that. I think he's awesome & hope he gets everything back under control. I still hope to order a Jekyll from him one day and none of the bad stories have changed that.

I'm sure he'll make sure the next one's perfect before slapping a shipping label on it, so at least you can enjoy that one while knowing an even better one will show up.


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## CrushingAnvil (Sep 20, 2012)

8 strings 8 (get it? 8?) times out of 10 make me sad in pants but that guitar is ACE.


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## canuck brian (Sep 20, 2012)

TomAwesome said:


> A shim, eh? Is that what that is? My BFR has one not unlike that (mine has a Hipshot bridge). It doesn't affect the playability, so I was afraid to say anything about it and risk getting a replacement with problems that actually affect the performance.



One of the things that i've wondered about is this: if the shim was added after the fact, how is that truss rod slot properly routed? Does the rod actually sit properly?

This all really sucks for Holloway - that thing LOOKS phenomenal, but it's like picking up your new Porche and someone has already kicked a dent into the doors.


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## glassmoon0fo (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm not convinced it was added after the fact. I didn't want to say much of anything in this thread after yesterday, but my BFR is the same as Toms and Holloways, though I'm sure Holloways is longer to accomodate a bigger angle. I noticed it as well when I got my guitar a while back, but it didn't look like an accident or a fix and I havn't thought twice about it till I saw the pics yesterday. I'm not a builder and don't really know what issues a built-in shim could cause, but maybe someone with an older Rico could chime in so we'd know if it's been his standerd design for a while


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## Ayo7e (Sep 20, 2012)

mikernaut said:


> This makes me a sad panda.
> As for my guitar, it was ordered in 2009 and I received it January 2011. Waiting on the rebuild still. Bernie emailed me last week and we hopefully have worked something out.




 More than 1.5 years waiting for that rebuilt?


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## kmanick (Sep 20, 2012)

wow that looks like an 8 string version of mine!
beautiful.......................................but freaking unnacceptable. 
A shim???? really is that a shim or is it just part of the neck painted and part not? I can't tell.
Man every time I see one of these threads I go over mine with a magnifiying glass to check for defects.
I don't know what the hell is going on down there, mine is flawless.
I'd be so on a plane right out to see Bernie in person if I had to deal with this.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Sep 20, 2012)

Whooops, just checked and actually mine has a shim too, but just on one side of the neck (the lower horn one), that's why I didn't notice at first sight.

Regardless of the many common issues we're dealing with, I'm actually very happy with the guitar, it plays really awesome and it's aesthetically very pleasing. Maybe it's just me.


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## djpharoah (Sep 20, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Whooops, just checked and actually mine has a shim too, but just on one side of the neck (the lower horn one), that's why I didn't notice at first sight.


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## MJS (Sep 20, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Whooops, just checked and actually mine has a shim too, but just on one side of the neck (the lower horn one), that's why I didn't notice at first sight.



How does that work out? Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't that equal some sort of twist somewhere?


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Sep 20, 2012)

MJS said:


> How does that work out? Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't that equal some sort of twist somewhere?



I really don't know. I may sound like a fool, but until the guitar sounds good with perfect playability and no buzz, I'm cool with it. If one day something happens though I'd be very pissed off


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## Hollowway (Sep 20, 2012)

Yeah, when I talked with Bernie he said the shims go on all of his guitars. Even Hipshots. He said a lot of the time you can't really see them, since they're the same wood and possible grain as the neck, but they're all there. Mine is just more obvious because of the glue lines and different wood grain. I have to check my circa 2008 Jekyll 7 to see if it has one.
He also said that the guitars are build 100% by hand, so you'll see things like the misaligned side dots, space between the top and body, etc. Interestingly, they don't use a vacuum press to put the tops on. He said they do it the old school way, where they wrap twine around and push wooden wedges in to hold the top to the body while the glue dries. He said obviously he doesn't want to send them out with a gap like that, and he missed the gaps on mine, but that's a little background on the method.


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## XEN (Sep 20, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> he missed the gap*S* on mine


Plural.
Ouch man.


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## Superwoodle (Sep 20, 2012)

Wow....
-------------------
Nice floors by the way. Makes great guitar necks


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## Vanzeplica (Sep 20, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> I would talk to him about the top separating from the body. That might be a structural issue and could get worse over time
> 
> Also, that "shim" for the Kahler, why didn't he just angle the neck?
> 
> I'd talk to Bernie and send it back. You waited how long for that guitar and it has those issues? Unacceptable.



Agreed. There are plenty of companies that do work for less than Bernie ie. Etherial, Mayones, Strictly 7 etc... and never have these issues. Bernie needs to hire more hands and get a better handle on quality control.


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## SpaceDock (Sep 20, 2012)

I think the guitar looks great and I would not have any problem with the shim or tiny gap. I can understand the perfectionist ideology of others on here, but the playability far outweighs the look any day. I would use a syringe to close the gap and call it a winner, I doubt any splitting will ever occur, but if it did I bet Bernie would be more than accommodating. I have played a number of very high end eights that could use that shimming, if you asked me. I don't see how it would create any problems or be any less of quality with one.

Just mho, don't beat me up too much about it.


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## WickedSymphony (Sep 20, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, when I talked with Bernie he said the shims go on all of his guitars. Even Hipshots. He said a lot of the time you can't really see them, since they're the same wood and possible grain as the neck, but they're all there. Mine is just more obvious because of the glue lines and different wood grain. I have to check my circa 2008 Jekyll 7 to see if it has one.
> He also said that the guitars are build 100% by hand, so you'll see things like the misaligned side dots, space between the top and body, etc. Interestingly, they don't use a vacuum press to put the tops on. He said they do it the old school way, where they wrap twine around and push wooden wedges in to hold the top to the body while the glue dries. He said obviously he doesn't want to send them out with a gap like that, and he missed the gaps on mine, but that's a little background on the method.



Did he happen to mention why he does either of these? I've never seen or owned another guitar with a shim like this in the neck and I don't know why it would have to be there in every one. And why would they use that method of gluing the tops if it can cause these gaps?

I'm just not sure I like 100% hand built being used as an excuse for flaws in different aspects of the guitar, from something as minor as the side dot alignment to structural issues like the top splitting from the body.


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 20, 2012)

SpaceDock said:


> I think the guitar looks great and I would not have any problem with the shim or tiny gap. I can understand the perfectionist ideology of others on here, but the playability far outweighs the look any day. I would use a syringe to close the gap and call it a winner, I doubt any splitting will ever occur, but if it did I bet Bernie would be more than accommodating. I have played a number of very high end eights that could use that shimming, if you asked me. I don't see how it would create any problems or be any less of quality with one.
> 
> Just mho, don't beat me up too much about it.



Yes, because spending thousands of dollars and waiting three years for something that has basic construction flaws is completely acceptable 

Seriously dude. When you're paying that much money, you're in Suhr/Anderson/you name it boutique territory. They don't let flawless guitars out the doors. Clearly Bernie is not at that level.

If basic flaws like that make it past quality control, what else makes it past quality control?


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## MJS (Sep 20, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> I really don't know. I may sound like a fool, but until the guitar sounds good with perfect playability and no buzz, I'm cool with it.



I guess I'm the same way, since most of my guitars are cheap and I don't even shy away from B-stock deals.  

It just threw me off the way you explained it because it sounds like one side of the fretboard would be higher than the other.



Hollowway said:


> Yeah, when I talked with Bernie he said the shims go on all of his guitars. Even Hipshots.



Damn... really? Again, I might be missing something here... but if every single neck you do needs shimming under the fretboard, it seems like it would be easier to just cut that difference into the neck from the start -- or even just taper the fretboard a little to eliminate the chance of there being a visible shim. 

I thought I've always followed the BRJ pics & NGDs pretty closely (and people never hesitate to nitpick or bash), so I'm surprised this is the first I've seen of the shims.



Hollowway said:


> He also said that the guitars are build 100% by hand, so you'll see things like the misaligned side dots, space between the top and body, etc.





Yikes... that doesn't sound right. Stuff like misaligned dots seems more like a measuring problem to me, whether doing the work by hand or not. I wonder if that means he just eyeballs it and probably gets close enough most of the time that the average person probably wouldn't notice without breaking out the calipers.

Still an awesome guitar, though. If I played it, I'd probably want to smash all of mine... and I've lived with flaws worse than anything on yours.


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## Hollowway (Sep 20, 2012)

Yeah, just so you guys know, I'm not a hugely picky guy. I originally posted the info about the gaps because I was worried about that. And I think Bernie was open to the idea of a rebuild because of a number of things. (I didn't mention it in the original post, but the guitar was supposed to have a reverse Diva HS, but it came with the rev. Jekyll HS.) I think it was the number of things that just added up to the point that it made sense to redo it. Plus, as others have pointed out, this is an expensive guitar, so I really just want to feel good about it, and not worry about the future, etc.


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## geofreesun (Sep 20, 2012)

oddly enough, i took a closer look at my bfr hesperian, now i see a tiny bit of shim near the end of the neck! bernie really does it on all his guitars?! same as hollowway, the playability on mine is mad good, it's crazy


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## Electric Wizard (Sep 20, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> I didn't mention it in the original post, but the guitar was supposed to have a reverse Diva HS, but it came with the rev. Jekyll HS.


Oh god it just gets worse and worse. That alone should prompt the rebuild.


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## canuck brian (Sep 21, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> He also said that the guitars are build 100% by hand, so you'll see things like the misaligned side dots, space between the top and body, etc.



Really! I have these AWESOME things called templates that I use to drill by hand and they come out aligned all the time. They cost me 30 bucks to have precision laser cut. I haven't read a single complaint like these about ANY of ViK's guitars and they're being shipped all over the world. 

I've also done a bunch of tops on guitars too without using vacuum pressing without gaps because i use a lot of clamps. More excuses from BRJ. 

Hollowway - dude - i'm so sorry it's turned out like this for you.  :brohug:


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## axxessdenied (Sep 21, 2012)

Wow, not only did they not build the guitar properly they didn't even build it to your spec  I'm sorry. But, this guy seems to have an excuse for everything. 

I'm not a guitar builder but I sure can smell out bullshit...


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## Cremated (Sep 21, 2012)

Damn. I wouldn't even want a rebuild if it has to have that shim. That's really sloppy looking. I realize guitars are about playing and not for looking at, but at that price bracket it should be functional AND be a work of art. Vik, Daemoness, and countless others can make a great guitar with top-notch craftsmanship, even with a huge productivity rate, so there's no excuse that Bernir can't, especially at the price point. The flaws would be reasonable if the price-tag wasn't huge. Bottom line: that's not what a prestigious custom shop instrument should look like.


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## mniel8195 (Sep 21, 2012)

i agree. I have a bernie rico hesperian 7 i purchased it second hand and its basically one of his base models and it has its flaws. im okay with that because i got it for an incredible price. 
But for a custom of this nature this thing should be perfect.


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## Nag (Sep 21, 2012)

I'm just gonna jump in to give my 2 cents about this :

When you order a custom shop guitar (and wait 3 years for it, and spend I dunno how many grand on it), when you finally get it, what do you expect ? you except EXACTLY what you ordered, which isn't what he got. Also, if you can spot flaws on it right after you unboxed it, what more is there to say.

I'm the proud and happy owner of an ESP SV Standard PRODUCTION LINE guitar. It was worth less than $2k. It's three years old now and I tell you, I'm stupidly rough on my guitars. It had not a single flaw when I unboxed it, it still doesn't have any issues after 3 years of constant Nagashing on it. 

If BRJ sells his guitars for over $2k, it's indirectly a way of saying it's better than guitars that cost $2k. and since you can't play a custom order before paying it, you sure hope it actually is like that. Well never EVER have I seen a guitar with a little piece of wood between the neck and the fingerboard like that to cover a screw-up. if you build a custom, make sure it's flawless, or start again. Care about the customer. Man, just look at RAN guitars. They don't brag about their works, their customs cost HALF of the $2k i'm comparing everything to, and even if they're expected to be of lesser quality I don't hear quite as many horror stories about them as I do about BRJ.

Hollo, now I say this directly to you. I'm a very patient person, so I'd have waited the 3 years no problem. But I'm also totally unforgiving. I don't have much money, so I'd expect to recieve the quality I was promised without any compromise. If I ended up getting something like THIS, I'd make bad advertisement for the builder EVERYWHERE. I'm pretty impulsive so I might even think about setting the guitar on fire, and the only reason i wouldn't do it in the end is that regular firewood is much cheaper than that.

About the sound and the playability, you seem to be very happy. But never in the world would I let flaws on such an order go through if I could get a regular production guitar for much less, that wouldn't have any of these.

My advice, grab an LTD H-308, sand the finish down if you want another look, upgrade it to BKPs (at least you'll be sure to get the right ones) and you'll be better off and without any of this trouble.

I doubt it's worth going with a specific custom shop if regular production models are better built and QC'd. and yes my 2 cents are quite long to read


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 21, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> Really! I have these AWESOME things called templates that I use to drill by hand and they come out aligned all the time.



Fuck you, Brian, you owe me a coffee as the previous one decided to jump from mouth to keyboard.


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## Philligan (Sep 23, 2012)

Nagash said:


> My advice, grab an LTD H-308, sand the finish down if you want another look, upgrade it to BKPs (at least you'll be sure to get the right ones) and you'll be better off and without any of this trouble.



This isn't his first ERG  I wouldn't be surprised if he's owned three or four of those already.



 you Holloway


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## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2012)

That's true! But I am of the same philosophy - I don't want to order a custom if its something I could get in a production model. At the time I ordered this one in 2009 there weren't too many 8 string models available, and no 8 string trems. Now there are a lot (and a lot of awesome luthiers). 
But, as you say, this ain't my first rodeo, so I have plenty of customs to compare with, in terms of quality, construction, playability and value.


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## Adam Of Angels (Sep 23, 2012)

I don't build guitars, but I wonder what the point in using shims is, as opposed to just angling the fretboard, or the actual neck wood.


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## JosephAOI (Sep 23, 2012)

I just felt the need to comment and add that I also agree that this is absolute bullshit. I would NEVER expect a $2000+ full custom guitar to have ANY flaws whatsoever. I mean, for fuck's sake, my Ibanez RG7321 that I bought used from Guitar Center for $200 has only 1 problem: 1 (ONE) dead fret. I have yet to find one other single thing wrong with it.

Props to you for sticking to your guns and getting your 3rd (or 4th?) rebuild and props to Bernie for letting you hold on to this while you wait. He absolutely needs to step it up at his shop though. Whether that means hiring more people, taking less orders, reducing his prices, whatever. This is unacceptable from a custom shop.


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## Mordecai (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Philligan (Sep 23, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> That's true! But I am of the same philosophy - I don't want to order a custom if its something I could get in a production model. At the time I ordered this one in 2009 there weren't too many 8 string models available, and no 8 string trems. Now there are a lot (and a lot of awesome luthiers).
> But, as you say, this ain't my first rodeo, so I have plenty of customs to compare with, in terms of quality, construction, playability and value.



And I figured if you were dropping 3k+ on a custom (while owning several other bad ass ERGS) a <1k guitar probably wasn't a consideration 

It's a bummer that this happened, but it's good Bernie's gonna do you right. And you spec out an awesome guitar


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## Tyler (Sep 23, 2012)

Very good choice with the Kahler


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## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I don't build guitars, but I wonder what the point in using shims is, as opposed to just angling the fretboard, or the actual neck wood.



Yeah, when I was talking with him he said that's just the way he and his dad have always built them, but he's aware that other companies that do neck throughs, like Carvin, just angle the neck in relation to the body. He said he was looking into changing the builds to that style.


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## potatohead (Sep 23, 2012)

As far as I know all of Carvins neck throughs have zero neck angle. They just recess the bridge.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2012)

potatohead said:


> As far as I know all of Carvins neck throughs have zero neck angle. They just recess the bridge.



Good point. I don't know how they'd deal with a Kahler. The Kahlers don't do particularly well recessed because then you have to carve out a little area to get to the fixed bridge lock screw. Or just embed the whole thing and not worry about it.


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## Seanthesheep (Sep 30, 2012)

Well Im never ordering a BRJ now 

Hell, for that price and wait time, ViK, Standberg and Jackson custom shop would all put out something top notch and without flaws. (Maybe that statement doesnt fully apply to jackson though: NGD: Jackson CS 8 Strings-first 2 ever made!)

Either way its a huge shame to see this happening to a supposedly top notch builder and to some willing to wait for a top notch product  I for sure wouldve lost my shit by now if I was in the OPs shoes


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## Hollowway (Oct 1, 2012)

^ Well, on the Kubler-Ross 5 stages of grief "losing one's shit" comes just before "acceptance."  

But in all seriousness I did go through many stages of being pissed off, but ultimately the time factor is the only thing at play, because in the end I will be getting a guitar of the quality that is expected. Obviously I wish it were sooner, but I appreciate that Bernie is owning it, and is rebuilding it to make it right.


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## potatohead (Oct 1, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Good point. I don't know how they'd deal with a Kahler. The Kahlers don't do particularly well recessed because then you have to carve out a little area to get to the fixed bridge lock screw. Or just embed the whole thing and not worry about it.


 
That's actually a primary reason why Carvin doesn't offer Kahlers.


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## Rook (Oct 1, 2012)

Seanthesheep said:


> Well Im never ordering a BRJ now
> 
> Hell, for that price and wait time, ViK, Standberg and Jackson custom shop would all put out something top notch and without flaws. (Maybe that statement doesnt fully apply to jackson though: NGD: Jackson CS 8 Strings-first 2 ever made!)
> 
> Either way its a huge shame to see this happening to a supposedly top notch builder and to some willing to wait for a top notch product  I for sure wouldve lost my shit by now if I was in the OPs shoes



Having orders with BRJ, Vik and strandberg, I can tell you my (non BFR) BRJ is going to be the cheapest by a loooong way.

I spec'd out a swamp ash body, rosewood neck'd 8 with a fixed bridge and it cost less than my Vik order (similar specs) by about $800. It's probably just over half what my strandberg's gunna cost


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## JPMike (Oct 1, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> Having orders with BRJ, Vik and strandberg, I can tell you my (non BFR) BRJ is going to be the cheapest by a loooong way.
> 
> I spec'd out a swamp ash body, rosewood neck'd 8 with a fixed bridge and it cost less than my Vik order (similar specs) by about $800. It's probably just over half what my strandberg's gunna cost



You got to see how much I paid for my orders.


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## cronux (Oct 1, 2012)

wow...just...wow


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## capoeiraesp (Oct 1, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, when I was talking with him he said that's just the way he and his dad have always built them, but he's aware that other companies that do neck throughs, like Carvin, just angle the neck in relation to the body. He said he was looking into changing the builds to that style.



Has anyone got pictures of other neck-thru BRJs demonstrating the neck-shim?
This is the first time I've ever seen it in any BRJ NGD thread.


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## Phrygian (Oct 1, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> He also said that the guitars are build 100% by hand, so you'll see things like the misaligned side dots, space between the top and body, etc.



Seriously? no matter how handmade they are those flaws are unacceptable, especially at that price. Handmade should mean extreme attention to detail, not an excuse for sloppy craftmanship.


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## Seanthesheep (Oct 1, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> Having orders with BRJ, Vik and strandberg, I can tell you my (non BFR) BRJ is going to be the cheapest by a loooong way.
> 
> I spec'd out a swamp ash body, rosewood neck'd 8 with a fixed bridge and it cost less than my Vik order (similar specs) by about $800. It's probably just over half what my strandberg's gunna cost



Really? I thought BRJ was up there in price with stranberg and ViK. Either that or Im thinking strandberg and ViK are cheaperthan they actually are


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## elq (Oct 1, 2012)

potatohead said:


> That's actually a primary reason why Carvin doesn't offer Kahlers.



I'm pretty sure Carvin stopped offering Kahlers bridges when Kahler suddenly ceased production in the early 90's and screwed a lot of people - including Carvin. 

I may have my doubts about Carvin's QC but have no doubt whatsoever that they could machine the correct neck angle.




Phrygian said:


> Seriously? no matter how handmade they are those flaws are unacceptable, especially at that price. Handmade should mean extreme attention to detail, not an excuse for sloppy craftmanship.



Perhaps Bernie is going for a more "rustic" feel... hell, plenty of people pay for relic guitars


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## Rook (Oct 1, 2012)

Seanthesheep said:


> Really? I thought BRJ was up there in price with stranberg and ViK. Either that or Im thinking strandberg and ViK are cheaperthan they actually are



A combination of the two I imagine, though the situation only applies to my set of orders (which are quite similar).


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## MatrixClaw (Oct 1, 2012)

Wow! So you FINALLY got it, huh?

Congrats man! She looks great!


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## potatohead (Oct 2, 2012)

elq said:


> I'm pretty sure Carvin stopped offering Kahlers bridges when Kahler suddenly ceased production in the early 90's and screwed a lot of people - including Carvin.
> 
> I may have my doubts about Carvin's QC but have no doubt whatsoever that they could machine the correct neck angle


 
Well, I'm _pretty sure_ I took place in part of a discussion about this on the Carvin boards with the Carvin admins. They looked at offering the Kahler again a few years ago, but they are not about to re-engineer their guitars to include a neck angle just for a bridge. The lock screw on the bridge means the bridge can't be recessed and this is 90% of the reason Carvin doesn't offer it.


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## elq (Oct 2, 2012)

Doh. I miss-read. I thought you meant that was the reason Carvin _stopped_ using Kahlers.


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## potatohead (Oct 2, 2012)

elq said:


> Doh. I miss-read. I thought you meant that was the reason Carvin _stopped_ using Kahlers.


 
You beat me before I could post my proof 

Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - Kahler?

There was one a long time ago too which went into more detail.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 2, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> A combination of the two I imagine, though the situation only applies to my set of orders (which are quite similar).



BRJ quoted me @ 5k for a build just like my vik without the fan


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Oct 2, 2012)

capoeiraesp said:


> Has anyone got pictures of other neck-thru BRJs demonstrating the neck-shim?
> This is the first time I've ever seen it in any BRJ NGD thread.



I have one, but that is so horrorific that I'll keep it for my NGD...


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## Hollowway (Oct 2, 2012)

I think the shim on mine is just more obvious due to the neck angle needed for a Kahler. I would think a TOM might have a similar sized shim (as opposed to a Floyd or a Hipshot).


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## Rook (Oct 2, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> BRJ quoted me @ 5k for a build just like my vik without the fan



Jesus, my 8 was just over half that.

EDIT: well... Bit more than 'just over' but still significantly less.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 2, 2012)

I thought it was weird too.


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## Rook (Oct 2, 2012)

I got the impression when I got my quotes he was making it up as he went along, that reinforces that notion somewhat


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## JPMike (Oct 2, 2012)

But if you talk more and more about it, the quote can get better for sure.


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## SkullCrusher (Oct 3, 2012)

Send the bastard back...

Or to me.


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## SirMyghin (Oct 5, 2012)

Wow, sorry to see you got such a huge turd. 

Glad it exposes some BS construction techniques. How many others are hiding out of sight though. 

Not at all shocked to see people attempting to defend it regardless.... Unfortunately.


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## rifftrauma (Oct 19, 2012)

I just read through the entire thread and I pretty much went from ecstatic joy to utter horror within 5 pages. I know you'd been waiting a hell of a long time for this man and I would stick to your guns till he gives you the guitar you "deserve" at this point. Hopefully he'll get his shit back together and make these re-builds a top priority, but who knows. Such a bummer man...


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## Hollowway (Oct 20, 2012)

Yeah, he said he definitely was doing a rebuild. We were supposed to talk a couple of weeks ago about some other stuff after we got off work, but I missed him, and called a couple times more but haven't gotten a hold of him. I doubt that the rebuild is a huge priority, because he's got so many other guitars he's working on, but I would imagine things will speed up at some point once all the BFRs move through the system. Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted if he has any more info about the current builds, etc., when I talk with him.


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## Diggi (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey, just curious if anything else has happened with this? (I know it's an older thread now, but wondered before I made a move)

Peace to all.


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## WeLookLikeGiants (Jan 25, 2013)

Dat top! Damn.


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## 80H (Jan 25, 2013)

fuck it all, i don't even care now. youtubevid tags have ruined me


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## ra1der2 (Jan 25, 2013)

Whoa man, I remember when you ordered that thing ages ago, I'm late to the party but have to wonder if you thought about asking him to lose the neck shim and counter sink the kahler instead? That seems like the logical (and more aesthetically pleasing) way to get it done if his neck profiles are shallow. Glad to see he's rebuilding it for you.


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## JLocrian (Jan 26, 2013)

That thing is gorgeous! Happy NGD!!


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## Hollowway (Jan 26, 2013)

ra1der2 said:


> Whoa man, I remember when you ordered that thing ages ago, I'm late to the party but have to wonder if you thought about asking him to lose the neck shim and counter sink the kahler instead? That seems like the logical (and more aesthetically pleasing) way to get it done if his neck profiles are shallow. Glad to see he's rebuilding it for you.



Yeah, he said he's moving toward maybe using the way Carvin does their neckthrus. It'll likely be a while before the rebuild is done, just because he has so many BFR builds, so maybe at that point he'll have a new method for doing those, since it seems a lot of people would prefer that.


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## Hollowway (Jan 26, 2013)

Diggi said:


> Hey, just curious if anything else has happened with this? (I know it's an older thread now, but wondered before I made a move)
> 
> Peace to all.



No real news. I don't expect to see this rebuild for a while, given the backlog. But I do think its great that he's doing the rebuild. Shows that he cares, even if he is swamped.


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