# Guitar prices are out of control



## electriceye (Jul 12, 2022)

The past year or so, I've been noticing a lot of absolutely ABSURD pricing coming from Gibson and Fender, especially. It seems even light relicing will add a good $2-3K to a price tag. But the biggest jokes, IMO, are Gibson's LP Jrs. Can someone please enlighten me on how the HELL anyone can justify ***$7k*** for a bare-bones LP Junior?? Unless this was an actual '57 (it's not), these prices are surpassing scam-level. Any half-decent builder could build one of these and not spend more than $700 in PARTS. I guess there are a lot of people with too much disposable income.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 12, 2022)

Folks are buying this stuff, so companies will keep pushing until they can't anymore.


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## Emperoff (Jul 12, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Folks are buying this stuff, so companies will keep pushing until they can't anymore.



/thread.


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## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

Gibson? Overpriced? Can't be.



electriceye said:


> I guess there are a lot of people with too much disposable income



Yep, it always boils down to supply and demand.



electriceye said:


> Can someone please enlighten me on how the HELL anyone can justify ***$7k*** for a bare-bones LP Junior??



At these prices the companies sell you the idea of a guitar. Not the actual instrument. $1-2k, especially if we're talking used, is about the upper range of what's reasonable, higher than that you are buying more than just a guitar.


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## sleewell (Jul 12, 2022)

if you have bought anything recently you could also correctly make this argument. the toilet paper i buy went from 4.99 to 6.49 in one week for the same size package. has anyone bought any ground beef recently?

i dont really keep tabs on super expensive guitars but i still think i could find good used guitars in my normal price point of $800-1000. 

dont you guys remember the joe strummer sig tele from a few years back that was like $10k? must have sold decently because i think they just made another. i think overcharging for certain guitars for certain buyers has always been a thing.


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## littlebadboy (Jul 12, 2022)

There's an article, "FENDER HIT BY CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT ALLEGING IT OVERCHARGED MILLIONS OF GUITARISTS".


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 12, 2022)

littlebadboy said:


> There's an article, "FENDER HIT BY CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT ALLEGING IT OVERCHARGED MILLIONS OF GUITARISTS".



tl;dr

There is no such thing as MAP in the UK.


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## budda (Jul 12, 2022)

No mention of the Mike Ness sig and Norlin prices the last 10 years? For shame.


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## Emperoff (Jul 12, 2022)

Guitarists: "Guitar prices are out of control".
Gibson: "Here, and Adam Jones sig for 10k"
Also guitarists:


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## ArtDecade (Jul 12, 2022)

Not all of us are on a budget.


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## budda (Jul 12, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Not all of us are on a budget.


At least not the same budget.


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## spudmunkey (Jul 12, 2022)

electriceye said:


> The past year or so, I've been noticing a lot of absolutely ABSURD pricing coming from Gibson and Fender, especially. It seems even light relicing will add a good $2-3K to a price tag. But the biggest jokes, IMO, are Gibson's LP Jrs. Can someone please enlighten me on how the HELL anyone can justify ***$7k*** for a bare-bones LP Junior?? Unless this was an actual '57 (it's not), these prices are surpassing scam-level. Any half-decent builder could build one of these and not spend more than $700 in PARTS. I guess there are a lot of people with too much disposable income.
> 
> View attachment 110623


I'm not defending it, but that's a Murphy Lab model. Why is it $6,999? Because a Les Paul Standard from the same line is $9,699.


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## Adieu (Jul 12, 2022)

And it looks like a piece of crap


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## jl-austin (Jul 12, 2022)

Adieu said:


> And it looks like a piece of crap




I was going to be quiet..... but seeing how someone else said it!

Someone who buys that..... I don't care how much money you got...... SUCKER!!!!


(edit, then they have to explain to all their friends why this one cost $7000, when all their friends see something similar at GC for $800)


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## Agalloch (Jul 12, 2022)

Listen, the sooner everyone realizes that Gibson is the Gucci (or Beats or Coach or whatever) of the guitar world, the better. You know why people are dropping $7k on that lame-ass guitar? Because it says "Gibson" on the headstock. That's it.


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## wannabguitarist (Jul 12, 2022)

Are these companies more or less profitable than they were 10 years ago? 5 years ago? I've always assumed the answer is yes but it would be cool to get the opportunity to look through the financial statements of one of the big companies.


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## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

tofudoom said:


> Listen, the sooner everyone realizes that Gibson is the Gucci (or Beats or Coach or whatever)



It absolutely is.

I still want a black LP Custom someday though


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## B.M.F. (Jul 12, 2022)

I have seen this occur well over time. The Ibanez RG570 I got in 1997 as a teen (first "real" axe) was $500. The comparable H-S-H Prestige model was around $1000 in 2013 (prices jumped up a lot after the 2008 crash.) Now, new Prestige's creep up to $1500.

Multiple factors at play, with not enough time to get into them all on why this is happening.


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## Church2224 (Jul 12, 2022)

The prices of everything are getting out of control. 

It's not just guitars....


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 12, 2022)

I wonder if the guys making that LP laugh their asses off all day.


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## tian (Jul 12, 2022)

spudmunkey said:


> I'm not defending it, but that's a Murphy Lab model. Why is it $6,999? Because a Les Paul Standard from the same line is $9,699.


Yup. If the price for that Junior makes you blush, take a lap through TGP for some perspective on just how many guitars of that price range are regularly moving off of store shelves. Those guitar shops with dozens of $5k+ LPs/Strats aren't doing it for fun...

But as mentioned above, a Murphy Lab is its own niche among high-dollar Gibsons. Lots of people will spends thousands in LPs and never bother with these and other people will say they're the only real Les Paul worth buying and so Gibson charges what they do.

And tangentially, this segment from a video about Norman's Rare Guitars was really funny to me because a salesman talks about how through the 50's Gibson was aggressively changing major components of the LP shape and construction. Gives some perspective on how arbitrary it is that so many guitarists turn up their noses on anything changes to LPs in the last 60+ years and the most sought after custom LPs these days are almost always flash-frozen of the 1959 spec.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 12, 2022)

There's another factor not mentioned here. The last couple of years have given rise to scalpers. We saw it with GPUs going for 2x MSRP, saw it with ps5s going for 2x MSRP, hell we even saw it with Travis Scott mcdonalds shit going for crazy money. There's a subset of humanity whose alternate source of income is now flipping goods. How many of these guitars do you think are going to players vs people looking for profit?

Gibson prices have always been absurd. I'd never NEVER buy one brand new. And the used market for all guitars is a shit show right now. Most used guitars are almost going for MSRP for all brands. The only deals I find are with kiesel and carvin. 

My LP Custom was bought brand new in 1976 for $600 (3000 today). I'm sure there's some rising costs due to tech changes, material increases, etc, but that's a huge delta between $3000 and what LP customs cost today.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 12, 2022)

Holy fuck how many times can this horse be fucking beat??


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## CTID (Jul 12, 2022)

back when i first started working at GC, there was a $15000 used bass on the wall and someone bought it.

shortly before i quit, there was a guitar somewhere in the country at a GC that was listed for $150,000, and i feel pretty confident that it's probably not at that store anymore, because a lot of people have more money than sense.

maybe i'm just disconnected from my instrument but i've always viewed it as a tool, and i've never felt "the mojo" from a guitar before, no matter how expensive or presitigious its builder is. you can obviously tell solid and great construction and specs of an well built instrument over a cheap one, but i think guitarists are WAY overly superstitious of guitars and would more or less achieve the same result no matter what they used. Gibsons are no better than Fenders or Ibanez or Schecter or whoever, when you compare the tiers to each other, but they're also generally not worse unless you get a dud. they're just another guitar, albeit one that's more or less been a freeze frame of a 60 year old spec for ages


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## tedtan (Jul 12, 2022)

You think that’s bad, imagine buying a Custom Shop R8, R9, or R0 then sending to Historic Makeovers and paying another $4,600 to have them add a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard, recarve the top to a “vintage correct” spec, refinish it, etc. They do good work, but still.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 12, 2022)

Guitars are a cheap hobby, you can get into it for under $500 and most don't take it much further than that. 

Have you seen cars? Guns? Fine wine? _Houses_?

Puts things in perspective.


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## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

tian said:


> But as mentioned above, a Murphy Lab is its own niche among high-dollar Gibsons. Lots of people will spends thousands in LPs and never bother with these and other people will say they're the only real Les Paul worth buying and so Gibson charges what they do



You know, I really wonder sometimes if in 40 years time we'd have some Barphy Labs churning out reliced 8 string Schecters for $20k a pop, and some miserable 70 year old fart with a gigantic ear tunnel would shit all over the new Hellraiser '11 reissue because the pots are nowhere near as scratchy as on the original.


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## narad (Jul 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> You know, I really wonder sometimes if in 40 years time we'd have some Barphy Labs churning out reliced 8 string Schecters for $20k a pop, and some miserable 70 year old fart with a gigantic ear tunnel would shit all over the new Hellraiser '11 reissue because the pots are nowhere near as scratchy as on the original.



When Schecter becomes the most iconic rock and roll guitar brand in the world, and not the most iconic guitar brand for teenage goth kids, maybe it's possible.


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## IwantTacos (Jul 12, 2022)

The euro and the dollar are 1:1 right now. A raw Aristides is 2800 dollars. 

Who cares about Gibson and fender on this website. Like seriously. Everyone go buy Aristides.


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## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

narad said:


> When Schecter becomes the most iconic rock and roll guitar brand in the world, and not the most iconic guitar brand for teenage goth kids, maybe it's possible.



Laugh all you want, but one day you'll tune to Classic Crabcore FM, and we'll see who gets the last laugh.


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## tian (Jul 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> You know, I really wonder sometimes if in 40 years time we'd have some Barphy Labs churning out reliced 8 string Schecters for $20k a pop, and some miserable 70 year old fart with a gigantic ear tunnel would shit all over the new Hellraiser '11 reissue because the pots are nowhere near as scratchy as on the original.


My money is on the 23 fret Jacksons...


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## Adieu (Jul 12, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> The euro and the dollar are 1:1 right now. A raw Aristides is 2800 dollars.
> 
> Who cares about Gibson and fender on this website. Like seriously. Everyone go buy Aristides.



But WHY? They're entirely unappealing slabs of countertop


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## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

tian said:


> My money is on the 23 fret Jacksons...



BRJ Reissues, with a special black friday sale


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## CTID (Jul 13, 2022)

narad said:


> When Schecter becomes the most iconic rock and roll guitar brand in the world, and not the most iconic guitar brand for teenage goth kids, maybe it's possible.


who knows, they've done a lot of work over the past decade to - if not distance themselves from it - at least add more to their lineup that isn't a redburst C6 Hellraiser with 120 pounds of abalone attached to it. we're viewing this through the lens of knowing what schecter was in its early days, and not being born 20 years from now when they are what they are then. i was born in the early 90s and have no attachment to Ibanez from the 80s, i have an attachment to them now because of what they're doing right now, and what they were doing when i was getting into guitar.


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## soul_lip_mike (Jul 13, 2022)

Gas pump says hi too


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## Giest (Jul 13, 2022)

Yea it's stupid as hell, but if you don't like it don't buy it. Nobody gonna die if they can't afford hipster guitars.

No guitarist who is discerning enough to warrant an instrument at such a price is going to buy _that one_ to play it. It's a wall hanger investment for tasteless wankers, it won't raise in value beyond rates of actually collectible Gibsons before the buyer is in the ground- if ever. The only thing that makes sense to me is Gibson is trying to artificially inflate their product values to avoid the danger of yet another bankruptcy. I guess they think it beats working and competing with companies who actually innovate and chase margins. It doesn't.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

Giest said:


> Yea it's stupid as hell, but if you don't like it don't buy it. Nobody gonna die if they can't afford hipster guitars.
> 
> No guitarist who is discerning enough to warrant an instrument at such a price is going to buy _that one_ to play it. It's a wall hanger investment for tasteless wankers, it won't raise in value beyond rates of actually collectible Gibsons before the buyer is in the ground- if ever. The only thing that makes sense to me is Gibson is trying to artificially inflate their product values to avoid the danger of yet another bankruptcy. I guess they think it beats working and competing with companies who actually innovate and chase margins. It doesn't.



A lot of professionals and studios buy these to replace/stand-in for actual vintage instruments. 

The vintage market has driven the prices of real deal old stuff, even later 70's and 80's stuff in some cases, to the point that it's a huge liability to tour or record with.

Sure, some of these will sit in glass cases in 2000sq/ft rec rooms in mansions, but not all of them. Some will be used as above, and others will get some play by some rich dude, which is the same as a lot of very expensive ESPs or Jacksons or Ibanez or whatever. 

It's just weird how upset folks get about it, when in the contemporary "metal" guitar community we have the same thing. Where do you think all those $8k+ ESPs go? Or $6k rainbow marble vomit Aristides? They go on the wall in some rich dude's condo where he plays them a few minutes a week in between all the other cool rich dude things they do. This is a hobby. That's it.


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## Brayden Buckingham (Jul 13, 2022)

I've gotten a thorough email describing the issues with production of guitars / basses from a major company and it was surprising how bad things are . 

To keep things short , everyone is backlogged , and everyone is raising prices to accommodate the increases in shipping and manufacturing . Hardware has gotten more expensive , pickups have gotten more expensive , so that obviously adds to the cost of the guitar , which the builder has to accommodate . Its understandable and out of everyone's control , but on the flip side of things , people are willing to pay absurd prices for their dream gear , and that's been like that since guitars were invented . No one has a gun to your head forcing you to buy expensive things . In my opinion , if you really have a love for a certain model and it's a high quality guitar hand built in the USA with premium parts , go for it . Your money , your choice . On the other side of that now , you'd be surprised how nice lower to middle end instruments are now.

It really comes down to what the consumer wants badly enough .


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## Zado (Jul 13, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> The prices of everything are getting out of control.
> 
> It's not just guitars....



Yup, guitars being the last problem in the list, considering that here in Italy we are going full throttle with charity acts towards Ukraine but we actually won't have enough gas to get warm this winter.


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## narad (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Or $6k rainbow marble vomit Aristides? They go on the wall in some rich dude's condo where he plays them a few minutes a week in between all the other cool rich dude things they do. This is a hobby. That's it.



Most of the people I see buying Aristides are basically poor. Or poor after purchasing it anyway. They've got the youth demographic.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Guitars are a cheap hobby, you can get into it for under $500 and most don't take it much further than that.
> 
> Have you seen cars? Guns? Fine wine? _Houses_?
> 
> Puts things in perspective.



This should be stickied or emblazoned somewhere on the forum to be reread often. 


narad said:


> Most of the people I see buying Aristides are basically poor. Or poor after purchasing it anyway. They've got the youth demographic.



I wouldn't describe myself as poor or a youth, but on the flip side I am certainly neither rich nor elderly. That said, I think for Aristides, you may be more on the right path here. There are plenty of folks with lots of disposable cash getting them, but I tend to see more people doing the save or aim for deal with Aristides.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

narad said:


> Most of the people I see buying Aristides are basically poor. Or poor after purchasing it anyway. They've got the youth demographic.



I know that the cheaper "R" builds tend to be like that, but I never got the impression that the more expensive builds were as well.

Substitute Aristides for Anderson then if it makes that big of a deal. 

The point stands, more expensive guitars, regardless of brand or niche, usually don't go to folks who play them the most or the best or either. Just like not all Lamborghini go to the best drivers.


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## narad (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know that the cheaper "R" builds tend to be like that, but I never got the impression that the more expensive builds were as well.
> 
> Substitute Aristides for Anderson then if it makes that big of a deal.
> 
> The point stands, more expensive guitars, regardless of brand or niche, usually don't go to folks who play them the most or the best or either. Just like not all Lamborghini go to the best drivers.



Shots fired.


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## Dekay82 (Jul 13, 2022)

Don’t forget about the blues lawyers driving the market (mostly PRS). And now with these new Gibson sigs (Mustaine, Cantrell, Jones, etc.), it would appear there is a new beast on the scene- Gen X lawyers.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 13, 2022)

Dekay82 said:


> Don’t forget about the blues lawyers driving the market (mostly PRS). And now with these new Gibson sigs (Mustaine, Cantrell, Jones, etc.), it would appear there is a new beast on the scene- Gen X lawyers.


This fall on NBC.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 13, 2022)

While expensive guitars are getting more expensive, cheap guitars are getting really really good. I'll call that a wash and be happy.


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## eaeolian (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Folks are buying this stuff, so companies will keep pushing until they can't anymore.


Exactly...


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## Emperoff (Jul 13, 2022)

To put things into perspective...

Are guitars a lot more expensive nowadays? Yes.
Also, are decent guitars much cheaper nowadays than they've ever been? Yes.

So, from where I see it, people are pissed off at not being able to purchase _*luxury*_, not guitars. I sure as hell can play the same shit on my 600€ Jackson than on my +3000€ ones (And those +3000€ ones would probably be +6000€ nowadays).

So, good news is, if you're into _*playing*_ guitar, there's nothing to worry about. If you're merely into *purchasing* guitars, then things get messy.

On the other hand, the prices of everything went sky high as well. It's just not as immediately noticeable since the amounts are small. Food, gas, and 1st priority goods prices also skyrocketed, and those are not luxuries. We _*need*_ them.

So stop complaining and go play the goddamn guitars you already have.


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## technomancer (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They go on the wall in some rich dude's condo where he plays them a few minutes a week in between all the other cool rich dude things they do. This is a hobby. That's it.



For the most part the "other cool rich dude things they do" is called working. With one exception (distant cousin who inherited money from her mom) pretty much everybody I know that is "rich" that buys a ton of gear works their asses off. But I digress.

Back to your regularly scheduled flogging of the dead horse


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The point stands, more expensive guitars, regardless of brand or niche, usually don't go to folks who play them the most or the best or either. Just like not all Lamborghini go to the best drivers.



Bro, you're really hurting my feelings.


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## dmlinger (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just weird how upset folks get about it, when in the contemporary "metal" guitar community we have the same thing. Where do you think all those $8k+ ESPs go? Or $6k rainbow marble vomit Aristides? They go on the wall in some rich dude's condo where he plays them a few minutes a week in between all the other cool rich dude things they do. This is a hobby. That's it.


This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the thread as I was reading down the posts.

Since we are talking money here, I'd put my bet on a Gibson holding its value over any guitar brand - especially the ones we see every day on SSO.


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## DarthV (Jul 13, 2022)

wannabguitarist said:


> Are these companies more or less profitable than they were 10 years ago? 5 years ago? I've always assumed the answer is yes but it would be cool to get the opportunity to look through the financial statements of one of the big companies.



Demand would be part of it. Lots of hobby items have had crazy price increases in the last 10-15 years. Growing middle class in Asia & South America, but mainly China. Just look at how whisky prices took off around 2010.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

technomancer said:


> For the most part the "other cool rich dude things they do" is called working. With one exception (distant cousin who inherited money from her mom) pretty much everybody I know that is "rich" that buys a ton of gear works their asses off. But I digress.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled flogging of the dead horse



I don't mean it negatively, and working is often part of being rich for sure.


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## narad (Jul 13, 2022)

No matter how bad of a driver I become, it seems I never get my lambo...


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## DarthV (Jul 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> While expensive guitars are getting more expensive, cheap guitars are getting really really good. I'll call that a wash and be happy.



Yep, $400-600 guitars were mostly crap when I started playing. TBF, that was a long time ago! Now? It'd be hard to find a bad instrument at $250.


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## OmegaSlayer (Jul 13, 2022)

A series of lucky events placed me in the positions to purchase 2 guitars I want in the range of € 1500, which, though working my ass off, didn't ever happened in ly life
I got one on order, but I won't purchase the other because I think it's wise to save for Autumn and Winter as things looks pretty dire, even if I know that what I won't buy today will cost loads more in one year and probably won't be able to afford it
PS it's the LTD Arrow, second hand LTD are impossible to find in Italy, plus second hand spikey guitars are often battered


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## zamboknee (Jul 13, 2022)

Supply and demand
Shipping/supply chain issues abound in most industries.
Inflation
During peak pandemic, a LOT of non-guitar players were purchasing guitars ( and other instruments)
Also, f*** Gibson anymore. Their time had come and gone


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> I wonder if the guys making that LP laugh their asses off all day.


No, because Gibson employs a lot of minimum wage (was $7.25/hr in TN, might be a bit more now, but still below poverty level) workers to make that LP. They can't afford them.


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

Holy crap. 

I have an Agile AD-2300. It's a double-cut Special clone with a pair of P90's. These particular P90's were hand-wound by a decent winder-guy, and the original new price on an AD-2300 was around $300, give or take, about 10 years ago. Out of production now. 

A friend of mine found one in good shape in Vancouver, hanging on a small guitar store wall, for $130. I had it shipped down to LA, cleaned it up, restrung it, did a light setup on it, and was surprised to find that it was like new and the P90's sounded outstanding. It's not the *same* as a Gibson Special from that era in that the fretboard has a 13.7" radius and binding and trap inlays and the frets are jumbos. But a friend of mine has an original mid-50's (cost him north of $5K), so we sat down to compare. In the end, we both decided we liked the playability and sound of the AD-2300 a bit better. But the point is that my $130 (plus shipping, and I got a hard case for it) expenditure produced a really good guitar with that look and feel. 

Those guitars were never designed to be pricey. They were essentially student guitars, cheaply made and basic. The artists that made them collector items bought them originally because they were cheap and basic. The versions available from the Authentic Company cost lots more because someone with money wants to pay more.


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## Wucan (Jul 13, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> To put things into perspective...
> 
> Are guitars a lot more expensive nowadays? Yes.
> Also, are decent guitars much cheaper nowadays than they've ever been? Yes.
> ...



This right here. 

I can walk into a store, buy a Squier and there's a decent chance it'll be outright better than a MIM Fender hanging nearby. With a little investment it'll sound just as good as the MIA Fender 3-4 times the price. 

Besides, outside of vintage/collectionables the secondary market really isn't any worse than it used to be. Pre-pandemic you already saved a lot by going used, nowadays it's a no-brainer with the massive markups by established brands and logistic issues.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

dspellman said:


> No, because Gibson employs a lot of minimum wage (was $7.25/hr in TN, might be a bit more now, but still below poverty level) workers to make that LP. They can't afford them.



Do you have a source on that?

Even about 10 or 15 years ago they were offering $9/hr for unskilled, inexperienced, absolute entry level on the production floor. Prior experience longer than 5 years and you'd start a little higher.

I think shipping made a bit less, but that's not what I applied for. 

Quick search points to it being closer to $15/hr now, for entry level production. 

Not princely wages for sure, but in line with unskilled and semi-skilled manufacturing, especially non-union.


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## mmr007 (Jul 13, 2022)

Facts don't defeat Gibson hate...they just momentarily irritate it


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Do you have a source on that?
> 
> Even about 10 or 15 years ago they were offering $9/hr for unskilled, inexperienced, absolute entry level on the production floor. Prior experience longer than 5 years and you'd start a little higher.
> 
> ...


$!5/hr is what you start at with Walmart (it's the minimum wage in Cali.) 
I think TN minimum wage may actually just ticked over to $12/hr. 
Glassdoor suggests that Gibson may not be the most progressive employer in the state.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

dspellman said:


> $!5/hr is what you start at with Walmart (it's the minimum wage in Cali.)
> I think TN minimum wage may actually just ticked over to $12/hr.
> Glassdoor suggests that Gibson may not be the most progressive employer in the state.



I never said they're high paying, it just doesn't seem to be $7.25/hr or whatever you were making up. 

Looking further, since you mentioned Glassdoor, it's looking like most floor jobs are $17/hr or more. But Glassdoor isn't exactly 100% up to date or reliable. 

The national average is something like $13/hr. Tennessee is still $7.25/hr.


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I never said they're high paying, it just doesn't seem to be $7.25/hr or whatever you were making up.
> 
> Looking further, since you mentioned Glassdoor, it's looking like most floor jobs are $17/hr or more. But Glassdoor isn't exactly 100% up to date or reliable.
> 
> The national average is something like $13/hr. Tennessee is still $7.25/hr.


They *were* paying the Federal minimum wage at one point ($7.25). I have a friend with pay stubs. 
In any case, the point was that the people who make the guitars probably can't easily afford what they're building. And they're not "luthiers."


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## Matt08642 (Jul 13, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Are guitars a lot more expensive nowadays? Yes.
> Also, are decent guitars much cheaper nowadays than they've ever been? Yes.






Would have been a pipe dream in 2005 lol. Even Squier and Epiphone make incredible stuff nowadays.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Guitars are a cheap hobby, you can get into it for under $500 and most don't take it much further than that.
> 
> Have you seen cars? Guns? Fine wine? _Houses_?
> 
> Puts things in perspective.



A cheap hobby and you can recycle your money easily since gear holds its value a lot better than most other hobbies. 10 year old guitar in good nick could sell for 2/3rds of what you paid. 

I knew a guy that was paying back the price of a custom guitar every year on a loan for a car he crashed 5 years ago but said I was mad for buying a prestige I sold two guitars to pay for.


----------



## bigcupholder (Jul 14, 2022)

Most people throw money at real estate, but I prefer guitars. They have more utility, they look nicer, they're portable, they're cheaper/easier to maintain, there's no ongoing tax burden and you can usually buy used ones without paying any tax at all. We may be in a guitar bubble, but I think the housing bubble is worse, so I'm going to keep buying guitars.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 14, 2022)

tofudoom said:


> Listen, the sooner everyone realizes that Gibson is the Gucci (or Beats or Coach or whatever) of the guitar world, the better. You know why people are dropping $7k on that lame-ass guitar? Because it says "Gibson" on the headstock. That's it.


But Gucci makes QUALITY products (to my knowledge)


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Jul 14, 2022)

littlebadboy said:


> There's an article, "FENDER HIT BY CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT ALLEGING IT OVERCHARGED MILLIONS OF GUITARISTS".



legit expected this to be a Hard Times article


----------



## budda (Jul 14, 2022)

Found a wood library prs for 2/3 market value today. Not buying it because no cash and a few provinces over. 

@sakeido go get it


----------



## sakeido (Jul 14, 2022)

budda said:


> Found a wood library prs for 2/3 market value today. Not buying it because no cash and a few provinces over.
> 
> @sakeido go get it


hey yo what where? That gray McCarty 594 here in Calgary?


----------



## budda (Jul 14, 2022)

sakeido said:


> hey yo what where? That gray McCarty 594 here in Calgary?


Korina back. Grey or blue. For comparison I sold my 1pc 10-top non WL for $4500 earlier this year.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Jul 14, 2022)

There's a LTD EC1000 in see-thru Black Cherry at one of the local pawnshops for $850, but I saw a sign there today that said 40-60% off all guitars through Saturday.

I can't even play right now, but that's a sweet fucking deal and I can probably come up with the cash by Saturday. We shall see....


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 15, 2022)

3100$ for a mesa mk5 is batshit insane. That's more than a jp2c. 
Axe Palace has a new multiwatt recto going for near 3k as well. To put that into perspective there''s a an early C revision recto going for nearly the same price.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 15, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Holy fuck how many times can this horse be fucking beat??


All of them. It's a guitar forum!


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 15, 2022)

DarthV said:


> Yep, $400-600 guitars were mostly crap when I started playing. TBF, that was a long time ago! Now? It'd be hard to find a bad instrument at $250.


This is the truest post in this thread.


----------



## bzhang9 (Jul 15, 2022)

ibanez keeping it real

list price 1980s/1990s
rg550 - 800
rg7620 - 1300

find used ones today 500-700 and equivalent new ones for not much more


----------



## Riffer (Jul 15, 2022)

Had the chance to buy a real 1956 Junior a few years ago so I jumped at it. It wasn't crazy expensive either (relatively speaking). I actually bought it because I thought it was cool and I knew I could at least break even if I wanted to get rid of it. Turns out I really love it and the market is kinda going a bit crazy on prices for them. I could probably sell it and make 3-4x what I paid for it. I don't get paying the same or more for a new instrument that looks like an old one when you can buy the old one and it usually holds value better and are more sought after. But at the end of the day people can spend their money whatever way they want.


----------



## Robslalaina (Jul 15, 2022)

Curious to be there when prices crash and everything else goes to shit because of wars, covid pox 2023, climate change or whatever and we'll see threads like "urgent help needed: should I trade my barely worn adidas sneakers and garlic for this 1991 LP Standard"


----------



## narad (Jul 15, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 3100$ for a mesa mk5 is batshit insane. That's more than a jp2c.
> Axe Palace has a new multiwatt recto going for near 3k as well. To put that into perspective there''s a an early C revision recto going for nearly the same price.
> 
> 
> View attachment 110770



Yeaaa, Gonna need a pointer to that Rev C...


----------



## Adieu (Jul 15, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> There's a LTD EC1000 in see-thru Black Cherry at one of the local pawnshops for $850, but I saw a sign there today that said 40-60% off all guitars through Saturday.
> 
> I can't even play right now, but that's a sweet fucking deal and I can probably come up with the cash by Saturday. We shall see....



Shit

I remember a few years back, during the switch to E-II or something, our local GC had two NEW (on-wall-by-ceiling = newer than most) black cherry fullbrand ESP Eclipses on clearance for $999

And used EC-1000's were $350-450 on CL all day long


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 15, 2022)

narad said:


> Yeaaa, Gonna need a pointer to that Rev C...


it sold. It was on reverb for a month or so


----------



## narad (Jul 15, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> it sold. It was on reverb for a month or so


Sure it was a legit Rev C and not some hacky mod? Sounds abnormal.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 15, 2022)

narad said:


> Sure it was a legit Rev C and not some hacky mod? Sounds abnormal.


my bad it's a triple recto rev c+. He still has it for sale. 
https://reverb.com/item/54055984-mesa-boogie-triple-rectifier-3-channel-rare-early-c-revision


----------



## Lozek (Jul 15, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> good news is, if you're into _*playing*_ guitar, there's nothing to worry about. If you're merely into *purchasing* guitars, then things get messy.


QFT. If there was a management restructure in Guitar world, the most inhabited roles would be 'Guitar Purchaser', 'Forum Poster' or 'Pro rig fantasist'. I suspect 'Big things coming soon' would also be the motto on the name badge.


----------



## Estilo (Jul 15, 2022)

With everything that's going on, funds will flow back to essential needs. Rolex resale prices fell rather quickly after the crypto collapse and stock market wind down, if anything.


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 15, 2022)

Faulkner Epiphones now command $3600. Epiphone. Epiphone.


----------



## marke (Jul 16, 2022)

Yeah it's a bummer. I'd be happy with cheap guitars if they'd just have stable necks, light weight, rolled fretboard edges and perfect frets. In fact, could be nice if some even pricier guitars had those..


----------



## budda (Jul 16, 2022)

marke said:


> Yeah it's a bummer. I'd be happy with cheap guitars if they'd just have stable necks, light weight, rolled fretboard edges and perfect frets. In fact, could be nice if some even pricier guitars had those..


Any guitar can have rolled edges and perfect frets if you know a great tech…


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jul 16, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 3100$ for a mesa mk5 is batshit insane. That's more than a jp2c.


JP2C is at $3349 right now. Mesa raised prices across the board. I agree, it's insane.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 16, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> JP2C is at $3349 right now. Mesa raised prices across the board. I agree, it's insane.


fuck that. it was 2700 a few months ago


----------



## Andromalia (Jul 17, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Not all of us are on a budget.


To be fair, at some point, even when not being on a budget, spending one's money in a stupid way is a thing. I have had decent professional fortunes these last years and can afford a lot of stuff, but I'd still feel like a con victim if I bought a LP Junior for 7K.


----------



## Andromalia (Jul 17, 2022)

narad said:


> No matter how bad of a driver I become, it seems I never get my lambo...


Being as you live in Japan, the lambo is nothing. Being able to afford the parking space, now we're talking. (No, they won't fit in a standard minihouse parking slot)


----------



## Wucan (Jul 17, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> To be fair, at some point, even when not being on a budget, spending one's money in a stupid way is a thing. I have had decent professional fortunes these last years and can afford a lot of stuff, but I'd still feel like a con victim if I bought a LP Junior for 7K.



Not that I disagree with your premise, but for someone who truly loves LP Juniors and has the money to buy whatever they want... if they want to feel like they have the very best version of the model, why not? Of course it's stupid for 99.99% of us, but we're not the target audience. And hardly enlightened are we, as we talk about $4-5K Music Man guitars and even a $7K BC Rich...


----------



## marke (Jul 17, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> To be fair, at some point, even when not being on a budget, spending one's money in a stupid way is a thing. I have had decent professional fortunes these last years and can afford a lot of stuff, but I'd still feel like a con victim if I bought a LP Junior for 7K.


Kinda agree, but kinda don't. A used gem high end Gibson probably is "cheaper" than a 500$ Indo guitar. Sure the initial investment is large, but the value does not drop. That Indo guitar is gonna have value cut in half, is hard to sell etc.

High end guitars are not usually very good investments, but they also do not lose value - edpecially used - unlike RGs and E-IIs

I know I'm comparing used high end vs new Indo, but given the speed of price increases, I'd say even a new Gibson is a pretty safe bet and won't lose all that much money in few years - if any.


----------



## budda (Jul 17, 2022)

And now lets visit the car thread!

He writes expecting a 4mo wait on parts for a repair job.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 17, 2022)

tofudoom said:


> Listen, the sooner everyone realizes that Gibson is the Gucci (or Beats or Coach or whatever) of the guitar world, the better. You know why people are dropping $7k on that lame-ass guitar? Because it says "Gibson" on the headstock. That's it.


Designer fashion would be a great analogy for high end guitars if people bought anything that said Gibson on the headstock. However, the reality is that they absolutely will not buy whatever Gibson is selling. 

The market for Gibsons is pretty much exclusive to guitars they made in a 25 year period and nothing else. People want certain shapes and specs that also say Gibson on the headstock. That's why there's a market for buying earlier 50s gold tops to refinish and route for humbuckers and TOMs. That's why there's a market for recreations of 59 Les Pauls. That's why there is no market for Firebird Xs.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 17, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> To be fair, at some point, even when not being on a budget, spending one's money in a stupid way is a thing. I have had decent professional fortunes these last years and can afford a lot of stuff, but I'd still feel like a con victim if I bought a LP Junior for 7K.


Still sounds like you are on a budget. That's okay.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 17, 2022)

What do y'all think the "'59 Les Paul" of the modern era will be? What will fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2075?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 17, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> What do y'all think the "'59 Les Paul" of the modern era will be? What will fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2075?



Nothing, if folks even care to play guitar then. 

We're probably not going to see a cadre of very influential, genera defining musicians across the musical spectrum reach for a single particular instrument, and if they do it's probably not going to be an electric guitar.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 17, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nothing, if folks even care to play guitar then.
> 
> We're probably not going to see a cadre of very influential, genera defining musicians across the musical spectrum reach for a single particular instrument, and if they do it's probably not going to be an electric guitar.


You don't think we'll see Laradas going for six digits with grandpa's trying to thump "this is how we did it back in the '20s"? 

I kid, you're probably right, sadly.


----------



## tian (Jul 17, 2022)

And even if there was a convergence of popular musicians onto one instruments, there's no way the manufacturer would make as few guitars as Gibson did of the '59 Les Pauls.

There's supposed to be roughly 640ish '59 LPs out there and things get especially weird because of the lost ledger which leads to one of my favorite '59 facts:


> The ledgers could subdue circulation of counterfeit guitars, as well. Despite crafting less than 650 Les Paul models in 1959, Gueikian said that owners of roughly 850 guitars from ‘59 claim authenticity.
> 
> “The information contained in the ledgers will be disappointing to those collectors who purchased counterfeits believing they were authentic 1959 bursts,” he said.
> 
> https://www.tennessean.com/story/en...-guitar-collections-music-history/5427539002/



It's a crazy world with those guitars. I've even heard of counterfeiters splitting real '59s in half to create two separate counterfeits that are harder to catch.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 17, 2022)

electriceye said:


> The past year or so, I've been noticing a lot of absolutely ABSURD pricing coming from Gibson and Fender, especially. It seems even light relicing will add a good $2-3K to a price tag. But the biggest jokes, IMO, are Gibson's LP Jrs. Can someone please enlighten me on how the HELL anyone can justify ***$7k*** for a bare-bones LP Junior?? Unless this was an actual '57 (it's not), these prices are surpassing scam-level. Any half-decent builder could build one of these and not spend more than $700 in PARTS. I guess there are a lot of people with too much disposable income.
> 
> View attachment 110623


gibson is marketing and targeting a generational demographic it knows grew up with classic rock, guitar lore and that desires what it perceives as having value AND has disposable income. it's kinda like the corporate guy weekend rider harely davison marketing apporach. thing is, it only has value while that market exists and demand is there. that generation is aging and will not be musically active much longer and there will be a lot of used instruments coming into the market ie; grandpa's les paul. personally, i doubt that anyone paying this kind of money for a contemporary made guitar merely copying a classic will ever get their money back, from a collectables and investment standpoint.


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## /wrists (Jul 17, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> gibson is marketing and targeting a generational demographic it knows grew up with classic rock, guitar lore and that desires what it perceives as having value AND has disposable income. it's kinda like the corporate guy weekend rider harely davison marketing apporach. thing is, it only has value while that market exists and demand is there. that generation is aging and will not be musically active much longer and there will be a lot of used instruments coming into the market ie; grandpa's les paul. personally, i doubt that anyone paying this kind of money for a contemporary made guitar merely copying a classic will ever get their money back, from a collectables and investment standpoint.


If you removed "classic rock" and "guitar" and basically any description of music instruments, I'd think were talking about Blizzard and their new Diablo Immortal game.


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## tian (Jul 17, 2022)

evade said:


> If you removed "classic rock" and "guitar" and basically any description of music instruments, I'd think were talking about Blizzard and their new Diablo Immortal game.


Microtransactions to tune your guitar?


----------



## /wrists (Jul 17, 2022)

tian said:


> Microtransactions to tune your guitar?


more of
blizzard is marketing and targeting a generational demographic it knows grew up with classic blizzard games and that desires what it perceives as having value AND has disposable income. it's kinda like the corporate guy weekend rider harely davison marketing apporach. thing is, it only has value while that market exists and demand is there. that generation is aging and will not be tolerating shitty microtransaction games much longer and there will be a lot of better games coming into the market (hopefully) personally, i doubt that anyone supporting blizzard for during these times will be getting their money back or any value from their releases, from a "next game will be worth paying/playing" standpoint


----------



## budda (Jul 17, 2022)

@sakeido tell me you got that WL


----------



## bigcupholder (Jul 17, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> What do y'all think the "'59 Les Paul" of the modern era will be? What will fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2075?


Ibanez Prestige RG. 2007 was a good year for basswood


----------



## Andromalia (Jul 18, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Still sounds like you are on a budget. That's okay.


I have prime real estate in Paris to sell to you.


----------



## will_shred (Jul 18, 2022)

nickgray said:


> It absolutely is.
> 
> I still want a black LP Custom someday though




74 Les Paul Custom in alpine white! If I can blow $8000 on a guitar I'm probably rich AF. 

Gibson custom prices are always high, because as someone else said they are the "gucci" of the guitar world. But Inflation is everywhere, and it effects the guitar market as much as it effects anything else.


----------



## sakeido (Jul 18, 2022)

budda said:


> @sakeido tell me you got that WL


he still hasn't messaged me back! not sure what his deal is...


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 18, 2022)

tian said:


> Microtransactions to tune your guitar?


Did anyone else see that fucking BMW is trying to do a monthly subscription fee for their heated seats? 

The guitar world isn't too far off of this....


----------



## budda (Jul 18, 2022)

sakeido said:


> he still hasn't messaged me back! not sure what his deal is...


Ah damn. Patience can pay off!


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 18, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> I have prime real estate in Paris to sell to you.


That's cute, he said from Monaco.


----------



## tian (Jul 18, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Did anyone else see that fucking BMW is trying to do a monthly subscription fee for their heated seats?
> 
> The guitar world isn't too far off of this....


That's partly what motivated my response. The normalization of microtransactions across all industries is the real thing out of control.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 18, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Did anyone else see that fucking BMW is trying to do a monthly subscription fee for their heated seats?
> 
> The guitar world isn't too far off of this....


Yeah, I read that they plan or are already, putting heated seats in everything and then going to charge £15 a month to enable them. Second hand owners can then choose whether to have a subscription even if the original owner didn’t !,,

It’ll be interesting to see whether other companies follow suit, or whether they spin this against BMW as being rather crass and distasteful and something not fitting of a ‘prestige’ brand. I can’t see Lexus thinking this sort of behaviour is honourable!


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 18, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I can’t see Lexus thinking this sort of behaviour is honourable!



Ehhh....









Toyota Made Its Key Fob Remote Start Into a Subscription Service


Subscription-based features are taking over the automotive industry—and now they're coming for your key fob.




www.thedrive.com


----------



## narad (Jul 18, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> What do y'all think the "'59 Les Paul" of the modern era will be? What will fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2075?



With inflation rates like this, pretty much anything.


----------



## Kyle Jordan (Jul 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ehhh....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The urge to buy an old truck, reinforce the frame and cab, add batteries and motors or start with diesel and run bio grows every damn time I read shit like this.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ehhh....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy ....

They’re the last company I’d have thought would do this, now it seems it’s their idea


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 19, 2022)

I love cars as much as the next guy, but I have to say that despite how fantastic modern technology is making cars, I’m feeling less and less inspired by new cars the more the sales models advance.

Buying a car has been all but replaced here by renting a car in one way or another, whether through a PCP agreement or increasingly through a lease. 

If you want to pay monthly, buying a relatively new second hand car will cost almost as much leasing a brand new one.

Now they want to make you like and subscribe and leave a comment if you want to use the windshield wipers, because it really helps support the channel


----------



## budda (Jul 19, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I love cars as much as the next guy, but I have to say that despite how fantastic modern technology is making cars, I’m feeling less and less inspired by new cars the more the sales models advance.
> 
> Buying a car has been all but replaced here by renting a car in one way or another, whether through a PCP agreement or increasingly through a lease.
> 
> ...


But if you lease and something goes wrong, they’re gonna bill you when you return it. If you finance and something goes wrong, it’s just your problem. 

My 2yo low mileage model was $12k? less than the brand new one (30% savings). Im still happy with it lol. 

Curious to see what happens when we go to replace our other vehicle though.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 19, 2022)

I guess that varies from contract to contract, here if you lease, from folks I know who lease, and something goes wrong ‘typically’ the company (either the leasing company or the dealership or the brand or whoever) fixes it for you under warranty and loans you a similar vehicle whilst they get it fixed.

A bunch of folks where I used to work all leased their BMWs and Alfas and Audi’s and such and mechanical issues were always fixed by returning the cars to the dealership.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 19, 2022)

Back on track, how soon before we start leasing guitars? Or are they just too inexpensive to make leasing worthwhile?


----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 19, 2022)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> I have seen this occur well over time. The Ibanez RG570 I got in 1997 as a teen (first "real" axe) was $500. The comparable H-S-H Prestige model was around $1000 in 2013 (prices jumped up a lot after the 2008 crash.) Now, new Prestige's creep up to $1500.
> 
> Multiple factors at play, with not enough time to get into them all on why this is happening.


For a trem model, you are looking for at least $1600 now for an RG652AHM. I think their most expensive Prestiges are now $2200. It's nuts.

I have a load of used Prestiges and only one that I bought new (an RG2550Z that I bought for the equivalent of $1k in 2016). The used prices are getting ridiculous now as well and it's not helped by Japanese drop-sellers on eBay who think they can charge $1200 for an RG1527Z with rusted hardware that they are selling from Ishibashi.

With that said, I will pay good money for an amazing condition late-90s to mid-2010s Prestige with a black headstock and a rosewood fretboard. I am not fond of the recent Prestige lineups that have maple or ebony fretboards and name-brand pickups that I do not really care for. I paid $1700 earlier this year for a flawless condition 2014 S5527 (with case) which I had been looking for for a long time. A surprisingly rare instrument (compared to the RG2550Z, RG1570, RG1527, etc) and even harder to find in this sort of condition. That was my unexciting white whale.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 19, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Back on track, how soon before we start leasing guitars? Or are they just too inexpensive to make leasing worthwhile?



That's basically how equipment rentals work for touring and studio stuff. You pay a fixed amount, if the gear craps out, they replace it, if you break it, you replace it.

Some bands use the same gear for like a year or more of constant touring.


----------



## c7spheres (Jul 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's basically how equipment rentals work for touring and studio stuff. You pay a fixed amount, if the gear craps out, they replace it, if you break it, you replace it.
> 
> Some bands use the same gear for like a year or more of constant touring.


 A lot of these equipement rental places for concerts out here average charge of about 10% of retail per day for rental, plus tax, insurance etc. Of course big discounts for concerts etc renting a lot of stuff. So if you wanna try out a head it'll be a a couple hundred a day (24 hours) usually. 
- What was happening last year with covid, supply shortages and when Mesa supply dried up and prices went higher because of the Gibson buyout people were renting them and not returning them so they'd pay full price on a used head then flip it. I think they started adding additional penalty for this too at most places. Before all this it was about half the retail cost for a per day rental. Someone I know said people would rent and amps would come back with different tubes etc too so they had to start marking the individual tubes as well.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 19, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> A lot of these equipement rental places for concerts out here average charge of about 10% of retail per day for rental, plus tax, insurance etc. Of course big discounts for concerts etc renting a lot of stuff. So if you wanna try out a head it'll be a a couple hundred a day (24 hours) usually.
> - What was happening last year with covid, supply shortages and when Mesa supply dried up and prices went higher because of the Gibson buyout people were renting them and not returning them so they'd pay full price on a used head then flip it. I think they started adding additional penalty for this too at most places. Before all this it was about half the retail cost for a per day rental. Someone I know said people would rent and amps would come back with different tubes etc too so they had to start marking the individual tubes as well.



I've worked for places that did pro rentals, pricing was usually based on the gear and account. 

Everyone had to put a valid credit card on file, sign off saying that it was at the house's discretion to charge you whatever, and you could play/inspect the gear first or wave that if so required. 

It was mostly cabs for touring, amps a bit less often, and guitars very seldom. Some recording stuff was somewhat popular, like rack gear and mics. 

It was a good deal for small time recording guys to spent $1k for a week or so with a boutique head (SLO, XTC, etc.) and some drum mics they wouldn't have regular use for, record a few demos and pass the cost onto the bands. 

There was one guy who disappeared with like $15k in stuff, but hey, his card wound up covering it.


----------



## c7spheres (Jul 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've worked for places that did pro rentals, pricing was usually based on the gear and account.
> 
> Everyone had to put a valid credit card on file, sign off saying that it was at the house's discretion to charge you whatever, and you could play/inspect the gear first or wave that if so required.
> 
> ...


It still amazes me how crappy people treat gear when it's not theirs and they're not paying for it. I've kicked people off gigs for being hasty because it could literally mean a delay in showtime or worse and more often the case, somebody getting hurt. Like ' Get the F outta here man, that case is 200 Lbs and you just purposely rolled it down the hill and let it smack against the wall." They think if it's in a shock case it's indestructible. I'm absolutely amazed how much abuse gear and tubes seem to actually take and still work. This is why bands and venues should hire professionals and not insist on one or two pros forced to manage a bunch of interns in order to save money last minute. I won't work most gigs anymore because of it. I don't wanna die from a guy dropping a wrench on my head from the rafters because he refuses to tie off his kit or put up his net etc.


----------



## DarrellM5 (Jul 19, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Did anyone else see that fucking BMW is trying to do a monthly subscription fee for their heated seats?
> 
> The guitar world isn't too far off of this....


That trend sucks. My 2021 Toyota Tacoma came with a free 1 year subscription to their app and 'on star' like service. Then I started getting notices about renewing them for $8/month each. I told them to get bent. I can remote start the truck with the keyfob so the app was only convenient but not necessary.


----------



## DarrellM5 (Jul 19, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Holy ....
> 
> They’re the last company I’d have thought would do this, now it seems it’s their idea


I think Toyota walked back on that one (after that article's release date) so now the FOB will continue to work. The app functionality and connected services will still each cost $8/month though.


----------



## Marked Man (Jul 19, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> The prices of everything are getting out of control.
> 
> It's not just guitars....




We live in an era of i̶n̶s̶a̶n̶i̶t̶y̶. stupidity, but here is timeless advice:

Never pay more for something than it is fundamentally worth. That includes stupidly and temporarily inflated houses and cars.


----------



## Andromalia (Jul 20, 2022)

Marked Man said:


> We live in an era of i̶n̶s̶a̶n̶i̶t̶y̶. stupidity, but here is timeless advice:
> 
> Never pay more for something than it is fundamentally worth. That includes stupidly and temporarily inflated houses and cars.


Well, you can usually get around car prices by getting an old one. Or taking public transportation if available. It's more difficult to do without a house...


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## Adieu (Jul 20, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> Well, you can usually get around car prices by getting an old one. Or taking public transportation if available. It's more difficult to do without a house...



Fingers crossed for the promised market crash.


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## eaeolian (Jul 20, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> Well, you can usually get around car prices by getting an old one. Or taking public transportation if available. It's more difficult to do without a house...


Used car prices are out of control in the U.S., and public transportation generally sucks. (Seattle and San Francisco are obvious exceptions).

Houses are just insane.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Holy ....
> 
> They’re the last company I’d have thought would do this, now it seems it’s their idea


Subaru also did this, they advertise an upcharge for a physical fob and install to circumvent it. I opted for the digital option because of the feature set, the fob is just a static start/stop. In the app I can lock/unlock any or all of my doors, have presets for the AC based on time of year to either warm up/cool down my car before driving and several other security features like remote car tracking and notifications if the car exceeds a certain speed.

With Subaru there seems to be more value added than just restricting the feature, while maintaining the tried and true button for people who prefer that. Not sure about Toyota, but I can imagine it's likely similar.

But yeah focusing on guitars isn't very telling, *everything *is out of control for sure. I got into my Subaru December 2019 right before everything went to shit, and my home March of this year right before all the rate hikes. Feel super lucky, but I sympathize for anyone having to buy anything essential in this market.


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> Mesa supply dried up and prices went higher because of the Gibson buyout


I would like to remind you that this didn't happen and Mesa prices were going up before that.


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## dspellman (Jul 20, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've worked for places that did pro rentals, pricing was usually based on the gear and account.


I've rented gear, but usually as backups for a tour, and the tour covered it. Now and again, I've rented something for a fly date, and the date itself covered it. 

At this point, I don't really buy much new gear (though a Korg PA5X keyboard might be on the horizon, and that sucker is five grand); I just go to the closet or the storage unit and shop there.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Subaru also did this, they advertise an upcharge for a physical fob and install to circumvent it. I opted for the digital option because of the feature set, the fob is just a static start/stop. In the app I can lock/unlock any or all of my doors, have presets for the AC based on time of year to either warm up/cool down my car before driving and several other security features like remote car tracking and notifications if the car exceeds a certain speed.
> 
> With Subaru there seems to be more value added than just restricting the feature, while maintaining the tried and true button for people who prefer that. Not sure about Toyota, but I can imagine it's likely similar.
> 
> But yeah focusing on guitars isn't very telling, *everything *is out of control for sure. I got into my Subaru December 2019 right before everything went to shit, and my home March of this year right before all the rate hikes. Feel super lucky, but I sympathize for anyone having to buy anything essential in this market.


My Subaru came with two fobs and free mats. I think U.K. and US spec must be rather different, although mine was a 2016. When I was looking at a new forester in 2018, the dealership didn’t mention anything about an app. Maybe it was just too long ago?


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> My Subaru came with two fobs and free mats. I think U.K. and US spec must be rather different, although mine was a 2016. When I was looking at a new forester in 2018, the dealership didn’t mention anything about an app. Maybe it was just too long ago?


Thats awesome, I've only really seen the Australian models outlined for the 2019/2020 range on Foresters. They come with front view cameras as well as rear view!

And I think so I don't recall when they started their subscription services, but they have like 2 - 3 packages with varying features. I think it'll cost me about 300 for 3 years once the complementary 3 years are up, which isn't too bad for the convenience in climates that get 7+ inches of snow in the winter.


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## c7spheres (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I would like to remind you that this didn't happen and Mesa prices were going up before that.


 Prices were going up before that, yes, then higher again several times over after that. Boogie supply has been dry for awhile. I mean you gotta be on the wait list, not that they can't make them anymore. The used market on them has gone way up and supply for a lot of them has dried up too. Most used stuff's doubled in the last 2 years and the new stuff is like 25-30% higher, yet stil it's flying off the shelves.


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## Marked Man (Jul 24, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> Prices were going up before that, yes, then higher again several times over after that. Boogie supply has been dry for awhile. I mean you gotta be on the wait list, not that they can't make them anymore. The used market on them has gone way up and supply for a lot of them has dried up too. Most used stuff's doubled in the last 2 years and the new stuff is like 25-30% higher, yet stil it's flying off the shelves.



The looming and totally unnecessary Recession will fix that....


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