# DAR Amplifaction Future Breed Machines linup (Fredrik Thordendal content).



## Variant

*I figured that my 'futuremetal' moniker locked me into posting this one.




However, all information here courtesy the mighty Ola Englund (Feared):*




Estimated prices:

Preamp pedal: $890
Jocke Box: $590
Loaded Jocke Box: $890
FBM100: $2690
FBM100X: $3990

DAR AMPS - FUTURE BREED MACHINES


Future Breed Machines is a new line of innovative products from DAR Amps that represent the leading edge of the industry......A new line of products that blend unique tube based designs with the very latest in DSP based technology. 

By combining the advanced engineering and technology from DAR Amps, with the real world experience from two of metals most renowned artists, we are bringing to market a new series of products that address many issues faced by modern guitarists while delivering the most crushing and highly sought after tones imaginable.


The initial Future Breed Machines product lineup includes:


*FBM-PX - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Preamp Pedal*

The FBM-PX is an advanced 4 channel tube Preamp with and an industry leading Impulse Response engine that delivers Fredriks trademark crushing Meshuggah tones in a very compact floor based form factor. This pedal will deliver the same tones and feel as a players traditional head and cabinet based rig, while being able to fit into a backpack.

The FBM-PX is the ultimate no compromise way to build a travel, back-up or practice rig when run through in-ear or stage monitors. Optionally it can also be run through a power amp and cab for a traditional setup, complementary to monitors. 

4 custom voiced tube preamps (Clean, Crunch, Rhythm, Lead)
Industrys highest resolution (10,000 point) custom impulse responses (IRs) created by Jocke Skog, which include power amp, cabinet, and mic combinations
Adaptive Dynamics on IRs to address the changing behavior of power amps and cabinets when pushed

Full stereo operation
Adjustable delay control for simulating a second guitarist on second channel 
All aluminum construction
2 line - 20 character illuminated display
Full midi control with locking MIDI in and DIN thru
Illuminated Carling switches
Custom voiced advanced noise gate
Channel assignable FX loop (series/parallel/off)
Balanced I/O for re-amping and 4-cable fx processor integration
Pre-IR outputs for interfacing to power amps
Post IR balanced outputs for interfacing to mixers/monitors/PA
Headphone out
USB interface and PC/MAC editor for management of IRs
Global voltage selector
Hand built in California, USA


*FBM-X*

The FBM-X is the first product in its class that allows guitarists, bassists, and engineers to run the industrys highest resolution Impulse Responses without the need for computers and their associated latency issues. No more inconsistent live sound, stage mics, or having to mic multiple cabinets in a recording session. 

The FBM-X is also an ideal companion to the many modellers/fx processors available today, as it adds tremendous flexibility in tone shaping and addresses one of the most noted complaints with existing products, the limitation of their cabinet simulations.

Industrys highest resolution (10,000 point) custom impulse responses (IRs) created by Jocke Skog, which include power amp, cabinet, and mic combinations
Adaptive Dynamics on IRs to address the changing behavior of power amps and cabinets when pushed
Full stereo operation
Black powder coated chassis
2 line - 20 character illuminated display for IR management
Full midi control with locking MIDI and DIN thru
USB interface and PC/MAC editor for management of IRs
Pre-IR outputs for interfacing to power amps in parallel to IRs
Post IR balanced outputs for interfacing to mixers/monitors/PA
Hand built in California, USA


*FBM-XL*
The FBM-XL contains all the features of the FBM-X and adds a powerful load box which allows for the running of high power tube heads without the need for cabinets, drastically reducing the overall amount of gear musicians need to take to gigs. 

The FBM-XL is also a very useful tool for the studio, where it is commonplace to have multiple amplifier heads in the control room, by allowing them to run silently and safely without attached cabinets.

Same features as FBM-X with the additon of a Load box that supports up to 100 watt amplifiers


*FBM-100HX - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Amplifier Head*

The FBM-100HX is DAR Amps new flagship amplifier. It is one of the most technologically advanced amps in the industry and delivers Fredriks trademark crushing Meshuggah tones and beyond. It also includes the very latest in DSP processing with an industry leading Impulse Response engine. This is the amp for those looking for the ultimate in high gain modern metal tone. From beautiful cleans all the way to highest gain of levels, this signature delivers in all aspects without compromise. 

100 Watt or 50 Watt Stereo Class A operation (assignable per channel) via 4 6c33B power tubes
Auto Bias power tubes with failure indicator lights
4 Channel custom voiced tube preamps (Clean, Crunch, Rhythm, Lead)
Industrys highest resolution (10,000 point) custom impulse responses (IRs) created by Jocke Skog, which include power amp, cabinet, and mic combinations
Adaptive Dynamics on IRs to address the changing behavior of power amps and cabinets when pushed
Adjustable variable delay control for simulating a second guitarist on second channel 
All aluminum black anodized shell
2 line - 20 character illuminated display for IR management
Full midi control with locking MIDI and DIN thru
Custom voiced channel assignable advanced noise gate
Channel assignable mono FX loop (series/parallel/off) with send/return levels
Channel assignable stereo FX loop (series/parallel/off) with send/return levels
Balanced I/O for re-amping and 4-cable fx processor integration with send/return levels
Headphone out
USB interface and PC/MAC editor for management of IRs
Pre-IR outputs for interfacing to power amps
Post IR balanced outputs for interfacing to mixers/monitors/PA
Tuner out
DI out
Custom DMX 512 Lighting controller with super accurate sensitivity control
Hand built in California, USA


*FBM-100H - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Amplifier Head*

The FBM-100H is a brutal 4 channel Amplifier Head that delivers Fredriks trademark crushing Meshuggah tones and more, in a straight forward, cost effective and no nonsense package. 

100 Watt Class A via 4 6c33B power tubes
Auto Bias power tubes with failure indicator lights
4 Channel custom voiced tube preamps (Clean, Crunch, Rhythm, Lead)
All aluminum black anodized shell
Full midi control with locking MIDI and DIN thru
Custom voiced advanced noise gate
Channel assignable FX loop (series/parallel/off)
Balanced I/O for re-amping and 4-cable fx processor integration
Global voltage selector
Hand built in California, USA





*Fin.*


----------



## Wookieslayer

holy shit...


----------



## Metalus

The preamp pedal sounds really intriguing


----------



## loktide

can't wait to try the preamp and head out when they finally get an european distributor


----------



## DVRP

Man, I had no idea these amps were that crazy. Alot of very very sweet features.


----------



## petereanima

The Jocke Box sounds very interesting!


----------



## Deadnightshade

So if i got it right,FBM-X is the remedy for Line 6's cab modelling?Which would be the pricing for this one?


----------



## Invader

Holy smokes this sounds interesting. I hope they make a rack sized version of the preamp pedal.


----------



## oniduder

jebus!

thanks for the posting!


----------



## Alekke

Invader said:


> Holy smokes this sounds interesting. I hope they make a rack sized version of the preamp pedal.



if do .. I'm on to it presto!


----------



## Ishan

That preamp pedal is perfect  Just what I was looking for


----------



## vampiregenocide

So Fredrik is ditching the Axe-FX?


----------



## Andromalia

Guess he's like us: he wants new toys from time to time even if what he has is good. ^^


----------



## loktide

vampiregenocide said:


> So Fredrik is ditching the Axe-FX?



i don't think so. the axefx is much more than just amp modelling. my bets are that he might combine the preamp with the axefx for effects/processing.


----------



## loktide

the chassis layout looks an awful lot like the axefx. i think it's even the same font


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Pretty cool idea, but chances are if you know what IRs are you're already using them so why pay for a head or pedal that plugs straight into the PA when you could just do it with a laptop instead with the VSTs and IRs you already own?


----------



## 13point9

...

needs to be djentier

...


----------



## loktide

Scar Symmetry said:


> Pretty cool idea, but chances are if you know what IRs are you're already using them so why pay for a head or pedal that plugs straight into the PA when you could just do it with a laptop instead with the VSTs and IRs you already own?



in principle you could also take your laptop, audio interface, and a poweramp to gigs to get something similar. i think that having all this in one unit as an amp head is more convenient, faster and easier to set up. additionally, i find it more practical to have a set of knobs to tweak your sound live rather than navigating through windows and menus.


----------



## drmosh

Now I know why Jocke pulled his impulse website


----------



## Scar Symmetry

loktide said:


> in principle you could also take your laptop, audio interface, and a poweramp to gigs to get something similar. i think that having all this in one unit as an amp head is more convenient, faster and easier to set up. additionally, i find it more practical to have a set of knobs to tweak your sound live rather than navigating through windows and menus.



Yeah, true man. Guess it matters how much the convenience matters to you


----------



## Larrikin666

I heard they actually thought about Axe-FX integration when they designed these amps. I'm not sure what they meant by that though.


----------



## Variant

^
 Looks like there's shit-tons of loops in that thing... which as an outboard/in-in-the-box kinda guy, I really appreciate.


----------



## vlover

Crunchy as fuck. I think I have gas again. Time to save up.  I want head now


----------



## Sepultorture

CANADA, get a DAR dealer fucking NOW


----------



## Double A

Dar needs to be selling through their own website.


----------



## splinter8451

Man this is crazy... I can't wait for more news and clips of all these things!


----------



## AeonSolus

I just came a little out of my left eye...


----------



## Sepultorture

AeonSolus said:


> I just came a little out of my left eye...



you should see a physician about that


----------



## RevDrucifer

I played the Farza amp at NAMM this past weekend. Frederik loaned DAR one of his LACS Ibanez' for the convention, so pretty much everyone who tried the amp, got to play his guitar as well....which was killer! 

Hearing/feeling this thing in person is really just insane. Paul was tweaking while I was playing and man....this thing is just so use-able no matter where the EQ was. 

It's beyond brutal....I can't wait to hear the upcoming stuff.

As far as Axe-FX integration, or anything else you can stick in there....they did keep this stuff in the priorities. 
"Balanced I/O for re-amping and 4-cable fx processor integration with send/return levels"

My girlfriend made a vid while I was playing/Paul was tweaking. I get out of work at midnight, but if I can, I'll upload it. Pretty sure she got some pics of Frederik's Ibanez as well.


----------



## asmegin_slayer

RevDrucifer said:


> My girlfriend made a vid while I was playing/Paul was tweaking.* I get out of work at midnight*, but if I can, I'll upload it. Pretty sure she got some pics of Frederik's Ibanez as well.



That's unacceptable. We need it NAO!!


----------



## xCaptainx

the FBM-PX pedal/preamp looks VERY interesting, and should be interesting to see how many AXE-FX/HD500 users switch to that, especially if all they use it for is a heavy rhythm tone.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, it will be those who: 
-Can afford another expensive piece of equipment _in addition_ to the axe fx
-Those who can afford to play loud when practicing at home
-Those for whom an axe fx isn't enough
-Those who do not have another real amp they won't drop because they love it

All depending on the capacity of the production.


----------



## Sepultorture

Andromalia said:


> Well, it will be those who:
> -Can afford another expensive piece of equipment _in addition_ to the axe fx
> -Those who can afford to play loud when practicing at home
> -Those for whom an axe fx isn't enough
> -Those who do not have another real amp they won't drop because they love it
> 
> All depending on the capacity of the production.



all true points. i'm a very play before you pay person, so chances are i will just drool all over this unless i can actually try one out extensively. being that i live in Canada, where we have little to no dealers on anything new, i probably will only ever see one when Meshuggah swings by Toronto.

but this definitley seams to take the axe fx idea toa head form, somewhat Line 6 Veta like but minus the suck (yes i know The Faceless use em live and it's good live tone, but i can never get line 6 stuff to sound good to me).


----------



## scottro202

$1000 for a preamp pedal? Jeezzzzz...

Seeing as how you can get an Axe FX standard for a bit more (Can you get em as low as $1500 these days? I think I've seen em that low. If not, a GOOD bit more). And the FBM doesn't seem to be too versatile, versus the AxeFX, which is extremely versatile. 

Just my 2 cents, definitely cool they're getting their own amp, but I doubt how much it'll sell


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I dig a lot of the concepts, but I _really_ don't care for Fredrik's tone most of the time.


----------



## drezdin

I'm pretty sure those tubes contain stem cells and this thing would kill small woodland creatures. 

I so want an evil amp like this or the Fortin Natas


----------



## oniduder

so i'm buying one,

and apparently since it's one of the first ones being made i may get one with fredrik having signed the chassis or some shit

i impregnated my computer after hearing this from mike (the amp builder) who i have to admit is one of the coolest fuckers i've ever dealt with

regards mates


----------



## TMM

I'm getting the FBM-PX myself, and holding out for a potential future offering I've heard rumors of to power it.


----------



## signalgrey

oniduder said:


> so i'm buying one,
> 
> and apparently since it's one of the first ones being made i may get one with fredrik having signed the chassis or some shit
> 
> i impregnated my computer after hearing this from mike (the amp builder) who i have to admit is one of the coolest fuckers i've ever dealt with
> 
> regards mates



i was gonna make a thread when it gets here. BUT.

i am the first. FBM100H with a 2x12 cab. signed all that stuff and certificate.
Mike and Paul are super cool.


----------



## ykcirj

TMM said:


> I'm getting the FBM-PX myself, and holding out for a potential future offering I've heard rumors of to power it.



The fbm-px does look pretty awesome. I'm interested in it too. I hope it is released soon and there is an online dealer that will sell it. I have been saving for an axe fx but this may be something more my style. I don't need a ton of amp models. I hope to see some reviews when it is released


----------



## oniduder

signalgrey said:


> i was gonna make a thread when it gets here. BUT.
> 
> i am the first. FBM100H with a 2x12 cab. signed all that stuff and certificate.
> Mike and Paul are super cool.



that probably would have been a better idea, i'm sorry for spilling beans 

i was pretty excited and such last night

still am this morning in fact and yes they are very very cool duders

regards!

m


----------



## signalgrey

oniduder said:


> that probably would have been a better idea, i'm sorry for spilling beans
> 
> i was pretty excited and such last night
> 
> still am this morning in fact and yes they are very very cool duders
> 
> regards!
> 
> m


ah well high fives to us!


----------



## oniduder

signalgrey said:


> ah well high fives to us!



yes indeedy

when i get mine, i'll post a thread, this has been a very exciting process with DAR

they've been cool, and this amp seems Emazing

yes emazing, with an E, capital

so all props go back d.o. double g

regards mate


----------



## AlexWadeWC

Technology is just beyond insane. I'm sure if the guy who invented the first stringed instrument were to see this today his head would explode.

I wouldn't trade my Axe FX in for this but I would absolutely love to jam on one.

I'm gonna go ahead and say 70% of Fredriks tone is from his hands, and guitar (30 inch scale, lundgren M8, pick up placement).

I'm sure it'll give you a djenty tone but if you think you'll plug into this thing and sound like Meshuggah then I'm sure you're in for a rude awakening haha.


----------



## themike

AlexWadeWC said:


> I'm sure it'll give you a djenty tone but if you think you'll plug into this thing and sound like Meshuggah then I'm sure you're in for a rude awakening haha.



Exactly - you have to be realistic. Fredrik's real amp set up is a highly classified secret of a tube screamer into a Gorilla 1x12!


----------



## TMM

AlexWadeWC said:


> I'm sure it'll give you a djenty tone but if you think you'll plug into this thing and sound like Meshuggah then I'm sure you're in for a rude awakening haha.



Thankfully, sounding like Meshuggah is about the last thing I'd ever want to do, aside from sounding like I'm playing through that Black Metal pedal. I don't djent, ever.

I actually thought the tone of the 2nd guy that played in that vid sounded pretty cool, though I'd still want something different. I'm sure the FBM-PX (or the head) can do way more than just Meshuggah tones.


----------



## Variant

Scar Symmetry said:


> Pretty cool idea, but chances are if you know what IRs are you're already using them so why pay for a head or pedal that plugs straight into the PA when you could just do it with a laptop instead with the VSTs and IRs you already own?



*Two reasons were cited:*

1. The Jocke pedal runs at 10,000 points of resolution, higher than any current software IR loader available at the moment. 

and

2. Having on-board IR handling would take a load off your would be system, which at the above resolution would be pretty heavy, especially running two channels (which the the DAR setup can emulate with a time delay). 


Additionally, while bands like mine build our digital rigs into heavy duty rackmount server cases, _*most*_ are still toting around fragile lappys, which if the *ONLY* reason you're bringing one along is to do speaker emulation is an expensive and risky move. Having it built into the pedal itself is a great idea, IMHO.


----------



## ykcirj

When will more info be released about dar dealers? As of now their website only has a few throughout the country. I really want a Fbm-px. The video shows some brief shots but Are there any pics of the finished product?


----------



## The Honorable

Wow the preamp pedal sounds really cool and like other Canadians in this thread I am very upset that we don't have a DAR dealer.


----------



## RedXIII

TMM said:


> I'm getting the FBM-PX myself, and holding out for a potential future offering I've heard rumors of to power it.


 
Can you give some details about this rumor? A power amp/speaker cab combo or something?

I am also very excited about the FBM-PX. If I like the tone a lot, I might just sell my Axe-FX. Honestly, it does everything I use my Axe for: booster pedal (it has 4 TC Electronic Integrated Preamplifier pedals built in, one for each channel for separate adjustments), clean channel, vintage crunch, tight high gain rhythm, smooth lead sounds, noise gate, power amp, cabinet, and mic IRs, and stereo outs with chorus (the stereo delay). The only thing I would need to add would be a delay and whammy pedal.


----------



## thrashcomics

RedXIII said:


> Can you give some details about this rumor? A power amp/speaker cab combo or something?
> 
> I am also very excited about the FBM-PX. If I like the tone a lot, I might just sell my Axe-FX. Honestly, it does everything I use my Axe for: booster pedal (it has 4 TC Electronic Integrated Preamplifier pedals built in, one for each channel for separate adjustments), clean channel, vintage crunch, tight high gain rhythm, smooth lead sounds, noise gate, power amp, cabinet, and mic IRs, and stereo outs with chorus (the stereo delay). The only thing I would need to add would be a delay and whammy pedal.




+1000000


----------



## TMM

RedXIII said:


> Can you give some details about this rumor? A power amp/speaker cab combo or something?



I'll ask Paul if it's okay to post - it's something I've been talking with him about for a while, ever since I got the Tuzzia head in.


----------



## gunshow86de

So you're telling me there's going to be a ton of used Axe-FX's for sale this Spring? Man, should have waited a little longer to buy mine.


----------



## tr0n

I'm very tempted by the FBM-PX, but what does 10000 points of resolution even mean?


----------



## Variant

^
Think of it as megapixels, moar is better (so far as potential for a more accurate representation of an image that is), same goes for convolution reverbs.


----------



## tr0n

Sure, but how does that compare to something like Red Wirez? How many points of resolution do they have? I think they go up to 24/192 which if anything is hundreds of thousands of points.


----------



## guitargeorge1

wait for the first demos of this pedal ................... Ola, Fredrick.......


----------



## TMM

tr0n said:


> How many points of resolution do they have? I think they go up to 24/192 which if anything is hundreds of thousands of points.



IIRC, the highest res IRs on the market previous to DARs were in the 100's, not thousands, or tens of thousands, including RedWirez.


----------



## tr0n

TMM said:


> IIRC, the highest res IRs on the market previous to DARs were in the 100's, not thousands, or tens of thousands, including RedWirez.


But in digital terms (come to think of it), audio resolution is measured in bits e.g 24 bits. Their claim isn't clear enough, 10000 points of what?

It probably sounds like I'm getting hung up on something insignificant, but I'm probably gonna buy one either way. I guess it's just the nerd in me.


----------



## Hollowway

tr0n said:


> But in digital terms (come to think of it), audio resolution is measured in bits e.g 24 bits. Their claim isn't clear enough, 10000 points of what?
> 
> It probably sounds like I'm getting hung up on something insignificant, but I'm probably gonna buy one either way. I guess it's just the nerd in me.



No, that's a good question. Now I'm wondering too!


----------



## guitargeorge1

should be the number of samples for the digital to analog conversion


----------



## TMM

RedXIII said:


> Can you give some details about this rumor? A power amp/speaker cab combo or something?



I was reading on Rig-Talk, and noticed that Paul already mentioned it there, so I'll just point to the thread:

Rig-Talk &bull; View topic - DAR rackmounted Power Amp?

From my email correspondence with him, this sounds like it's really happening, with the signature DAR aesthetics.


----------



## Larrikin666

DAR is so slow about getting information out there. I'll punch a baby to get my hands on the FBM100X.


----------



## RevDrucifer

They're busy building!


----------



## 5656130

So Fredrik is getting DAR amps to build him a 100 watt tube amp that he says will be the most advanced modern tube amp in the world its gonna be powered by tubes from a russian MiG 25 fighter plane 0.0


----------



## highlordmugfug

Old news, buddy. 
There's already a few threads concerning it.


----------



## 5656130

*sigh* i knew someone would beat me


----------



## evilsaint

Future Breed Machines - Sneak Peeks | Facebook


----------



## HighGain510

RevDrucifer said:


> I played the Farza amp at NAMM this past weekend. Frederik loaned DAR one of his LACS Ibanez' for the convention, so pretty much everyone who tried the amp, got to play his guitar as well....which was killer!
> 
> Hearing/feeling this thing in person is really just insane. Paul was tweaking while I was playing and man....this thing is just so use-able no matter where the EQ was.
> 
> It's beyond brutal....I can't wait to hear the upcoming stuff.
> 
> As far as Axe-FX integration, or anything else you can stick in there....they did keep this stuff in the priorities.
> "Balanced I/O for re-amping and 4-cable fx processor integration with send/return levels"
> 
> My girlfriend made a vid while I was playing/Paul was tweaking. I get out of work at midnight, but if I can, I'll upload it. Pretty sure she got some pics of Frederik's Ibanez as well.



So 2 months ago you said you were going to post a video of you demoing the amp "that night", did you ever get around to uploading it? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear it.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

I cant see it rivaling the axe at all, but am i the only one who thinks the sound of that pedal is basically emulating fredriks vetta tone? so you could buy an x3 and run it through a power amp and get a similar tone(you'll never get the same hands,guitars blahblahblah that old chesnut) just seems a bit silly to me that its emulting the sound of a cheaper product and claiming to be insanly good and id love to hear a clip without you tube compression

prepares flamesuit


----------



## JohnIce

I was told by a budding band of theirs (probably shouldn't mention any names) that regardless of endorsements and stage props they still use and plan to use Axe-Fx live.


----------



## Krucifixtion

JohnIce said:


> I was told by a budding band of theirs (probably shouldn't mention any names) that regardless of endorsements and stage props they still use and plan to use Axe-Fx live.



I don't really care what Meshuggah uses even though I love them. I think this thing is gonna be pretty sick anyway and like a lot of other people I don't need a ton of different patches, just a few really good tones. It will also be nice for me to not have to use plugins for my IR's when recording.


----------



## RevDrucifer

HighGain510 said:


> So 2 months ago you said you were going to post a video of you demoing the amp "that night", did you ever get around to uploading it? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear it.



I should have done it then. I'm digging through 2 laptops, a portable hard-drive, 2 phones and a digi cam trying to find that damn video now. We actually can't find *any* pics/vids from our LA trip, which is really fucking weird but is a major bummer as we had TONS of pics from NAMM and everything after....

Not giving up til I've exhausted all devices...


----------



## Jzbass25

gunshow86de said:


> So you're telling me there's going to be a ton of used Axe-FX's for sale this Spring? Man, should have waited a little longer to buy mine.



Good news for me haha, I've always wanted to make an amp under this idea though. I guess Line 6 beat all of us to the idea but DAR seems to be really pushing the limits. Personally it is awesome but DAR likes bone crushing gain so I probably will use the money towards an axe-fx and use my amp + an axe fx.


----------



## JeffHenneman

I wanna try these out so much, they seem pretty killer.


----------



## Variant

evilsaint said:


> Future Breed Machines - Sneak Peeks | Facebook



Wicked!


----------



## RevDrucifer

Thank god, my girlfriend found the vids on her digi-cam. 

I ripped this pic off my facebook so in case I get too shitfaced tonight and forget to upload the vid, no one can say 'Pics or it didn't happen."





I want to say she grabbed a bunch of pics of the guitar and the back of the head while I was playing, but I can't remember for sure.


----------



## cyril v

IAMLORDVADER said:


> I cant see it rivaling the axe at all, but am i the only one who thinks the *sound of that pedal* is basically emulating fredriks vetta tone? so you could buy an x3 and run it through a power amp and get a similar tone(you'll never get the same hands,guitars blahblahblah that old chesnut) just seems a bit silly to me that its emulting the sound of a cheaper product and claiming to be insanly good and id love to hear a clip without you tube compression
> 
> prepares flamesuit





I missed it, can you link me to the clips of the pedal in action?


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

> I missed it, can you link me to the clips of the pedal in action?


*
FBM-PX - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Preamp Pedal
on the first page it describes the pedal as getting his sig sound, just thought it'd pretty much sound like his pod tones. because his studio tones arn't that much different.
now if it could emulate his lead tones.....

ofcourse if you can upload your own impulses tones etc that could be a game changer
*


----------



## TMM

IAMLORDVADER said:


> *
> FBM-PX - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Preamp Pedal
> on the first page it describes the pedal as getting his sig sound, just thought it'd pretty much sound like his pod tones. because his studio tones arn't that much different.
> now if it could emulate his lead tones.....
> 
> ofcourse if you can upload your own impulses tones etc that could be a game changer
> *



Seriously, the FBM-PX is not going to be an emulation of a POD / Vetta. That statement may be a little naive. Have you heard a DAR Forza? Google them.

2nd statement is also a bit  Yes, you can load your own impulses... but do you have any 10k-point impulses? I suspect you won't want / need to, even though it's an option.


----------



## 4Eyes

TMM said:


> but do you have any 10k-point impulses?


what does this exactly mean, 10000 points impulse?


----------



## tr0n

I still don't get this 10000 points thing. 10000 points of what? Resolution? That doesn't actually answer the question. Resolution in digital terms is measured in sample rate and bits. Even the lowest usable resolution in digital is 16 bits at 44.1, which if anything is more than 500,000 points. Paul said he would send more information about it but I haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## 4Eyes

tr0n said:


> I still don't get this 10000 points thing. 10000 points of what? Resolution? That doesn't actually answer the question. Resolution in digital terms is measured in sample rate and bits. Even the lowest usable resolution in digital is 16 bits at 44.1, which if anything is more than 500,000 points. Paul said he would send more information about it but I haven't heard anything yet.



that's exactly why I asked about it..maybe it's something like mana, but in this case 10,000 points of djent, the most djenty impulses on the market


----------



## Variant

tr0n said:


> I still don't get this 10000 points thing. 10000 points of what? Resolution? That doesn't actually answer the question. Resolution in digital terms is measured in sample rate and bits. Even the lowest usable resolution in digital is 16 bits at 44.1, which if anything is more than 500,000 points. Paul said he would send more information about it but I haven't heard anything yet.



Over what time span though?  Cab impulses are notoriously short compared to, say, a convolution reverb of the inside of a large cathedral.


----------



## RevDrucifer

Sorry that took so long. Unfortunately, the sound is nothing to compare the amp to. When you finally play this amp in person, you'll just shit at how fast the response is and how the sound comes out the speakers. 

You can hear as the camera moves how drastic the sound change is, so that's a good indication of how it affects the over-all sound.


----------



## signalgrey

Just got an update from Paul on my FBM rig. I cant post the pics since he asked me not to yet. BUT....shit looks amazing. i CANNOT wait. AC30+FBM fucking serious.


----------



## ykcirj

signalgrey said:


> Just got an update from Paul on my FBM rig. I cant post the pics since he asked me not to yet. BUT....shit looks amazing. i CANNOT wait. AC30+FBM fucking serious.



Awesome! Congrats. Can't wait to see a pic!


----------



## Kali Yuga

signalgrey said:


> Just got an update from Paul on my FBM rig. I cant post the pics since he asked me not to yet. BUT....shit looks amazing. i CANNOT wait. AC30+FBM fucking serious.


Why doesn't he want pictures? I mean, he's wanting people to drop over 300 bucks on a deposit for a product that nobody has even seen pictures for prototypes for. I plan to do a deposit soon, but still that doesn't make much sense to me.


----------



## Kali Yuga

Also, do we know anything about DAR cabinets?


----------



## TemjinStrife

Meh. I'd just want a Tuzzia, or a rack poweramp based on the 6C33Bs.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

TMM said:


> Seriously, the FBM-PX is not going to be an emulation of a POD / Vetta. That statement may be a little naive. Have you heard a DAR Forza? Google them.
> 
> 2nd statement is also a bit  Yes, you can load your own impulses... but do you have any 10k-point impulses? I suspect you won't want / need to, even though it's an option.



Yes ive heard them, ive been watching this amp build since it was announced and have seen loads of thier vids about it and thier other amps, i was merley stating the fact that it recreates fredriks tones and he is famous for using various pods for some of his tones in the studio and for a long time live.

Some people might not want to use the 10k impulses if the like/prefer and want to combine the sounds thier getting now with this unit, like the axe fx everyone goes mad about how good it is (including me) and some people dont like the impulses so they load in others.

just raising a couple of points for debate


----------



## signalgrey

Kali Yuga said:


> Also, do we know anything about DAR cabinets?



Im getting one, havent decided on speakers yet. Paul said they used high wattage speakers for a while. 75/100 watters, but he did say V30s also sound fantastic. They also have sound sensitive lights. w00t blinkies!



Kali Yuga said:


> Why doesn't he want pictures? I mean, he's wanting people to drop over 300 bucks on a deposit for a product that nobody has even seen pictures for prototypes for. I plan to do a deposit soon, but still that doesn't make much sense to me.



It wasnt a finished pic, it had pics of the guts and schematics everywhere so it makes sense he didnt want me to show it around. Hes pretty liberal with other pics that are "safe" just gotta shoot him an email.


----------



## Kali Yuga

I could understand not wanting the schematics and guts shown yet, but some sort of digital mockup or anything would be great and probably increase sales. I asked for pics before and he never addressed the question.

How can I get more information about DAR cabinets?


----------



## cyril v

IAMLORDVADER said:


> Yes ive heard them, ive been watching this amp build since it was announced and have seen loads of thier vids about it and thier other amps, i was merley stating the fact that it recreates fredriks tones and he is famous for using various pods for some of his tones in the studio and for a long time live.
> 
> Some people might not want to use the 10k impulses if the like/prefer and want to combine the sounds thier getting now with this unit, like the axe fx everyone goes mad about how good it is (including me) and some people dont like the impulses so they load in others.
> 
> *just raising a couple of points for debate*



You could also note that he has used; AxeFX Ultra, Mesa Boogie Dual Recs, Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+, Marshall Valvestate, JCM800 and now the DAR sig amp... just sayin' 

How many albums was the Pod actually used on? I know he used it on 'Nothing', most of the other stuff from what I remember are real amps. I'm not sure about _Catch 33_.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

Really stoked to hear these in action. Veeeery interested in buying the pre! Let's just wait...


----------



## signalgrey

Kali Yuga said:


> I could understand not wanting the schematics and guts shown yet, but some sort of digital mockup or anything would be great and probably increase sales. I asked for pics before and he never addressed the question.
> 
> How can I get more information about DAR cabinets?



those he has and are ready for shipping since the new year i believe. Shoot him an email. He's a friendly dude im sure he can help you with any questions you have.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

cyril v said:


> You could also note that he has used; AxeFX Ultra, Mesa Boogie Dual Recs, Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+, Marshall Valvestate, JCM800 and now the DAR sig amp... just sayin'
> 
> How many albums was the Pod actually used on? I know he used it on 'Nothing', most of the other stuff from what I remember are real amps. I'm not sure about _Catch 33_.



He only used pods as the main part of his studio tone on the first incanation of nothing, but they have been used for a few leads and were the mainstay of his live rig for a long time. i just thought id bring up the pod because i can fosee loads of people wanting his live tone etc and being determined only this unit can get it when it was a pod in the first place 
also i thought it was funny that he's still going to continue using the axe live and just has a sig amp for studio use but tbh if a company offered 99.9% of guitarists a sig amp none are going to say no so the more power too him
oh and it looks really cool


----------



## Kali Yuga

There's no proof he'll still be using the Axe FX.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

Kali Yuga said:


> There's no proof he'll still be using the Axe FX.



i never said there was proof i just read earlier in this thread that someone heard from a source close to the band that they would continue using axe fxs' live .....


----------



## Kali Yuga

It's easy to say things on the internet, take them with a grain of salt.


----------



## HighGain510

Kali Yuga said:


> It's easy to say things on the internet, take them with a grain of salt.



The joke is on you guys, I'm actually Fredrik Thordendal.


----------



## cyril v

Vader, I had a nice lengthy point-to-point response, but then decided not to post. It seems to me you're just trying to be provocative or something. If you want, I'll PM the response and leave this thread a little bit more free of Off-Topic debate.


----------



## tr0n

HighGain510 said:


> The joke is on you guys, I'm actually Fredrik Thordendal.



No way, so am I!


----------



## Krucifixtion

IAMLORDVADER said:


> i never said there was proof i just read earlier in this thread that someone heard from a source close to the band that they would continue using axe fxs' live .....



Considering the fact that this amp doesn't have built in FX I can't see why he wouldn't still be using the Axe-FX for that purpose at least. Why would he also bother getting an amp built with a full IR system if he was just going to mic it up and use it in the studio only. The DAR is built with a balanced FX loop so that you can use the 4 cable method with something like an Axe-FX. I would imagine that his live rig would be his Sig head along with an Axe-FX all controlled via MIDI.


----------



## TemjinStrife

I don't understand exactly why everyone wants the exact Meshuggah tone anyway, or exactly what he used. I bet a lot of it is in his right hand and technique.

Get close to it, and worry about specifics when you can play like that.


----------



## Larrikin666

TemjinStrife said:


> I don't understand exactly why everyone wants the exact Meshuggah tone anyway, or exactly what he used. I bet a lot of it is in his right hand and technique.
> 
> Get close to it, and worry about specifics when you can play like that.



Yeah. I'm buying the preamp and the sig head, but I definitely don't want or expect to replicate his tone. I like the aesthetics, tone, and features that DAR offers. The FBM series is just the extra step that pushed me over the edge for purchasing. I don't djent or ever want to mimic that style. Not everyone who plays a 5150/6505 wants to sound like Eddie...although I'm sure that was way more prevalent when the amp was initially released.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

cyril v said:


> Vader, I had a nice lengthy point-to-point response, but then decided not to post. It seems to me you're just trying to be provocative or something. If you want, I'll PM the response and leave this thread a little bit more free of Off-Topic debate.



I was more trying to stimulate a disscusion rather than come across provocative, obviously its my fault for going off topic but I just wanted to see where people stood in relation to this product being used for creating new tones rather than copying them, feel free to pm me i'm interested to hear your thoughts


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

> Considering the fact that this amp doesn't have built in FX I can't see why he wouldn't still be using the Axe-FX for that purpose at least. Why would he also bother getting an amp built with a full IR system if he was just going to mic it up and use it in the studio only. The DAR is built with a balanced FX loop so that you can use the 4 cable method with something like an Axe-FX. I would imagine that his live rig would be his Sig head along with an Axe-FX all controlled via MIDI.



i'd be very interested to see how it would sound live in relation to direct into the pa like thier current setup and if he would use his head or the pedal  for the body of his tone


----------



## Kali Yuga

So, don't heads normally need to plugged into cabinets or some sort of attenuator to be used for DI? How would this FBM head work with the IR outputs since it still has a poweramp?


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

Kali Yuga said:


> So, don't heads normally need to plugged into cabinets or some sort of attenuator to be used for DI? How would this FBM head work with the IR outputs since it still has a poweramp?



Post IR balanced outputs for interfacing to mixers/monitors/PA
DI out


----------



## Kali Yuga

IAMLORDVADER said:


> Post IR balanced outputs for interfacing to mixers/monitors/PA
> DI out


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

Kali Yuga said:


>


*FBM-100HX - Fredrik Thordendal Signature Amplifier Head
specs on the first page about his head suggest that the signal is routed pre to the power amp so you can use it with cabs and not use thier ir cabs or post for pa connections with the irs enabled also the di out for recording etc
*


----------



## tr0n

Bumpage. Posted on the DAR Amps Facebook page. I'm licking my lips in anticipation.

YouTube - DAR Amps - Testing at FAL Studios.mov


----------



## ykcirj

Has anyone had trouble placing a pre-order? I've talked via email to Paul several times. He always replied in a timely manner. When I asked for a pre-order invoice he said he would send it, but I didn't receive it. I re-emailed him and he said he would send it shortly. Still haven't received anything and it's been about three weeks. Are they too busy, or did I just miss the first run of production? Seems strange to not want my money  so i Just wanted to know if anybody else has pre-ordered a fbm-px recently.


----------



## OrionsFire777

being a massive fan of fred and haake & the shuggs gang i reckon its awesome theyre doing some work with companies on products (eg. haake w/ toontrack & fred w/DAR) good on them! both of these guys are surely up there with the most influential metal musicians of the past 15 years imo


----------



## s5470Pro

TemjinStrife said:


> I don't understand exactly why everyone wants the exact Meshuggah tone anyway, or exactly what he used. I bet a lot of it is in his right hand and technique.
> 
> Get close to it, and worry about specifics when you can play like that.


 

+10,000 I think this Djent thing is some new fad for the teens. I would Imagine DAR was looking for a little help for promoting this new amp which looks amazing.

No offense to Meshugga or anyone else but 4k for a Djent tone seems a little much for me.


----------



## JohnIce

Kali Yuga said:


> There's no proof he'll still be using the Axe FX.


 
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't want to quote my source as I heard it from another swedish band who are personal friends with Meshuggah (and Axe-Fx users themselves) at an after party, with beer involved. Given that I don't know these guys that well and don't know anyone in Meshuggah, I don't want to mention names in case it puts anyone in an awkward position.

Anyway, we were discussing the Axe-Fx and came onto the subject of Meshuggah, and I brought up the DAR endorsement and this guy said they'd still keep using Axe-Fx's and had no plans to stop using them. Granted the guy could be wrong, what do I know? I'm just chiming in what I heard from what seems like a credible source.


----------



## TMM

s5470Pro said:


> No offense to Meshugga or anyone else but 4k for a Djent tone seems a little much for me.



Not sure where all these comments about the DARs only being capable of Meshuggah tone are coming from.

A) Why would DAR spend that kind of time & money on such a 1-dimensional unit? Before you reply with some snide remark, the answer is, they wouldn't - their gear is pretty awesome, groundbreaking, and flexible. Meshuggah's tone is just one of many tones that can be pulled out of this... which brings me to point B)

B) Did you watch the YT vids? They've already demonstrated that these things can do much more than 'djent'.


----------



## s5470Pro

TMM said:


> Not sure where all these comments about the DARs only being capable of Meshuggah tone are coming from..


 
I thought we were talking about Fredrik's sig amp? What else would you expect from the description?



TMM said:


> B) Did you watch the YT vids? They've already demonstrated that these things can do much more than 'djent'.


 

Yes and they were very low quality. The only one I have came across that was good quality was ola's video. But on that end its double tracked. Mixed to death and a full band playing. Hard to get any good ideas of what this thing IS in fact capable of.

Im sure its amazing, they look like the most bad ass amps of all time. BUT you cant find them anywhere to check one out and 4k is a lot to test an amp.


----------



## Larrikin666

s5470Pro said:


> I thought we were talking about Fredrik's sig amp? What else would you expect from the description?



Because everyone knows that signature amps are ONLY capable of mimicking the tone of the artists they were designed for. Everyone who plays a 5150 sounds like EVH....



I'm quite sure the tonal range of these amps will be will be vast to say the least. They're touting the amp's ability to nail the Meshuggah tones, because there aren't a whole lot of other heads out there capable of doing so. They aren't just talking about sounding like Meshuggah. The influence coming from Fredrik likely lies more in the insane features they managed to cram into the amp. 

If $4000 is too steep, then you must really have issues with Diezel, Fortin, and pretty much every other boutique amp manufacturer. Personally, I think $4000 is cheap when considering the entire package and that my ENGL SE also costs the same thing. I've never had a single regret regarding the cost of that amp, so I'm stoked at the prospect of getting another amp capable of hitting a wider tonal spectrum and the most advanced IR system out there. I already threw down a deposit to see how I liked the tones they were going for. If it's as exceptional as I expect, then I'm going balls out for the FBM-100HX to use with my Axe-FX.


----------



## JohnIce

s5470Pro said:


> Yes and they were very low quality. The only one I have came across that was good quality was ola's video. But on that end its double tracked. Mixed to death and a full band playing. Hard to get any good ideas of what this thing IS in fact capable of.


 
So if you got this amp... you'd NOT double-track with it, NOT mix it and NOT play it with a full band?  To me it sounds like Ola provided what you actually want to hear an amp do, as opposed to some wanker playing on his bedside. Granted, a few videos of it both in and out of a mix would be great but how it works in a mix should be the important part, not what it sounds like in your bedroom.


----------



## Krucifixtion

$4000 steep for a Djent tone? to me is like saying all an ENGL can do is Djent...when my Invader is one of the most versatile amps I have played for me personally. I have no plans on dropping that kind of money for a head when I already own an Invader, but I was debating forever what to get for recording and for the amount of features your getting $890 for a 4 channel tube preamp with all those IR capabilities and everything else is a great deal. You can't buy a new 6505+ for that kind of money these days. I know it's not a full blown head, but you can pair it with just about any power amp for much cheaper.


----------



## oniduder

pics are up on the DAR facebook page, if you want a good wank tonight, go check err out

sorry no link, use your fingers buddy

thanks


----------



## signalgrey

s5470Pro said:


> I thought we were talking about Fredrik's sig amp? What else would you expect from the description?
> 
> Yes and they were very low quality. The only one I have came across that was good quality was ola's video. But on that end its double tracked. Mixed to death and a full band playing. Hard to get any good ideas of what this thing IS in fact capable of.
> 
> Im sure its amazing, they look like the most bad ass amps of all time. BUT you cant find them anywhere to check one out and 4k is a lot to test an amp.



dude you are starting to sound like a Troll.
They havent been released yet...no one has tried them. They are basically vastly modified and expanded Forzas which people have tried and loved. The Forzas have been getting rave reviews for range etc... so if you expanded the capabilities further...do you see where this is going.

If you were so doubtful of their capabilities as an amp you should email Paul and ask him about them. If Fredrik wanted a Djent only amp it would be a single channel amp. DAR doesnt do that and neither does Fredrik.


----------



## Kali Yuga

those pics are sexy but none of the preamp.. but im sure itll look just as sleek


----------



## evilsaint

*Pictures from DAR Amplification | Facebook *

FBM-100H


----------



## Variant




----------



## Krucifixtion

Pretty sweet....although is that completely done? It looks a little plain in some respects. No corner pieces or grill of sorts?


----------



## Hollowway

I've never heard these in person, and I'm not really looking to buy one, but these guys know how to make a badass looking amp. That has to be the coolest thing I've ever seen.


----------



## signalgrey

Krucifixtion said:


> Pretty sweet....although is that completely done? It looks a little plain in some respects. No corner pieces or grill of sorts?



it isnt totally done. Structurally yes but not decoratively speaking. There is supposed to be some kind of protective grill with a symbol on it i think like the one from catch 33. ill check my email from Paul.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Ho lee fuck.


----------



## oniduder

yeah i was surprised in no preamp pics, idk why, but i didn't get one of those, so i don't care as much, ha!!!

but yeah 2 weeks apparently and i have amp, sooo rock and or roll

mike has been awesome, paul i haven't talked with but he's equally cool just cause, i said so

regards to all!!!


----------



## tr0n

Boo @ no preamp pics.  I hope I've got it by the time I get my Blackmachine.  That amp looks amazing though. The tubes look like turbines, with the fire of hell burning behind.


----------



## Baco

These look amazing indeed! I'm so looking forward to having these here


----------



## HighGain510

The amp itself looks rather cool, I really want to hear a demo that runs the full gamut of tones it can cover though!


----------



## Larrikin666

Are they not going to have any tolex?


----------



## oniduder

not to my knowledge

regards, 

it will just be pure metal, literally, figuratively


----------



## vlover

4 large, bummer. I'll add it to my custom guitar and Diezel VH4 wishlist. But sounds awesome non the less


----------



## technomancer

DAR obviously realizes that blinky lights = tone


----------



## Larrikin666

oniduder said:


> not to my knowledge
> 
> regards,
> 
> it will just be pure metal, literally, figuratively



I hate the idea of constantly adding new dings and scrapes to a metal chassis.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Hey guys


Paul from DAR here...I am sorry we have not been able to participate more in the discussions. I will try to do so more going forward. 

Just wanted to address a few of the comments/questions now and will do my best to answer any other questions you guys have from now on. 

First, while we for sure are addressing Fredrik's trademark tones, the new amps and preamps are designed to take his tones to the next level. Fredrik is all about pushing the envelope and that is exactly what we are aiming to do. our design focus is of course for extreme metal, but just like our other amps, these will also cover a lot of other tones. Especially with the per channel pre-preamp shaping filters. 

Second, the street price on the first amp, the FBM-100H is $2690 usd, not 4K as someone mentioned. 

We will be releasing more information on the IR engine soon....just working through some final details....

Also, there have been a number of posts stating difficulty in reaching us. I always strive to respond to emails very quickly. I apologize if some got lost recently. I check both [email protected] and [email protected] very frequently. 

Thanks guys....it is great to see the level of interest in the new FBM line.


Paul


----------



## themike

technomancer said:


> DAR obviously realizes that blinky lights = tone


 
Just had a revelation.....can KxK make inlay lights blink? Plug that into a DAR and you may have literally beaten life


----------



## Larrikin666

Maybe people are thinking $4000 for the FBM-100HX


----------



## Pedrojoca

man, that is one fine looking machine 

is it going to feature some sort or grill of something? I don't really like the idea of someone touching my tubes


----------



## gunshow86de

^

As the owner of a DAR, I can assure you that if anyone touches the 6C33 tubes they will suffer from third degree burns. Them thangs get hot!


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Yes, there will be a honeycomb metal mesh grill similar to what we have in the Forza and Tuzzia currently.


----------



## Daemoniac

Sweet mother of fucking god I have to own one... The clip, while maybe not the greatest example (obviously nothing beats testing like being in the room with one), has convinced me it will be my amp - cheaper than an SE (here in Aus especially), and better tone for what I want than a Diezel.

Fuck yeah.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Hey guys

Just wanted to let you know we uploaded a new video of the FBM-100H in the final stages of testing in California. Mike heads to Sweden on May 16th for final testing and voicing, then it goes into production. 

It was only only recorded on a camera phone but hopefully you get an idea of what the amp is all about. 

Well recorded demos after the 16th....

The amp will have a killer metal logo in the center area with Fredrik's signature going above the input. 

YouTube - DAR Amps - FBM-100H Final Testing in California.mp4

Special thanks to Ben Wilkinson for some killer playing. 

Paul


----------



## cyb

sounds awesome Paul! hoping we'll see a video of the preamp pedal in the near future...


----------



## ShadyDavey

Variant said:


>




Incredible looking piece of kit which also sounds brilliant.......

I'm quite speechless.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Here is one more guys....

This time with Mike Ascarie and a detuned 6 with EMG's. 

YouTube - DAR Amps - FBM-100H Testing 2


----------



## Larrikin666

Hey Paul....any word on when the preamps will be ready to ship out?


----------



## TMM

Just talked to Paul - he said they're going to Sweden 5/16 to have Fredrik do the final test / okay on the tones, and so long as that goes well, they'll be ready to ship after that. I should also be getting some updated pics of the pedals soon.

EDIT: haha, wonder if we were typing these out at the same time.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Larrikin666 said:


> Hey Paul....any word on when the preamps will be ready to ship out?




We are working on the preamp in parallel as the pedal is very much based on the front end of the head. We will be finishing the pedal shortly after the head.


----------



## Larrikin666

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> We are working on the preamp in parallel as the pedal is very much based on the front end of the head. We will be finishing the pedal shortly after the head.



Awesome. Is the 100HX also going to be finished at the same time? If so, any ballpark on the price? I might end up want to upgrade to that after I get the preamp.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Larrikin666 said:


> Awesome. Is the 100HX also going to be finished at the same time? If so, any ballpark on the price? I might end up want to upgrade to that after I get the preamp.




The FBM-100HX is still a few months out. It's target MAP is $3990 usd.


----------



## evilsaint

From YouTube - DAR amps's Channel


I like this video clip better ...


----------



## Pewtershmit

Sepultorture said:


> CANADA, get a DAR dealer fucking NOW



careful what you wish for


----------



## slapnutz

So whats the actual form factor of this amp? It looks wider than a standard cab... or does it seem that way because it shorter in height due to horizontal tubes???


----------



## signalgrey

slapnutz said:


> So whats the actual form factor of this amp? It looks wider than a standard cab... or does it seem that way because it shorter in height due to horizontal tubes???


its shorter but same width. optical illusion.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

signalgrey said:


> its shorter but same width. optical illusion.



Hey guys

The amp's dimensions are:

11 7/8 deep 28.5 wide 8 tall

It has very low profile. 


Paul


----------



## TMM

signalgrey said:


> its shorter but same width. optical illusion.



+1 doesn't need to be as tall with the powertubes mounted sideways


----------



## Kali Yuga

These videos sound great, although poorly recorded. 

I'm still looking at the preamp though. Would it be possible to use it through active monitors and sound good, such as that Mackie HD1531 that all the Axe FX-heads are using lately? It's designed for DI recording/PA use, so I see no reason why not, but I figured I could ask.


----------



## Kali Yuga

I would also like to see something about the DAR cabinets, at the very least what speakers are used in them since we are seeing clips of the DAR amplifiers through matching cabinets. Speakers are as much of an influence over what we're hearing than anything else is.


----------



## Sicarius

So uh, when I become rich. I'm getting one of these or a Forza, instead of a VH4 like I've wanted.

God. Damn.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Kali Yuga said:


> These videos sound great, although poorly recorded.
> 
> I'm still looking at the preamp though. Would it be possible to use it through active monitors and sound good, such as that Mackie HD1531 that all the Axe FX-heads are using lately? It's designed for DI recording/PA use, so I see no reason why not, but I figured I could ask.




We are aware they were not the best recordings Kali. We clearly stated they were teaser videos only done on a phone camera. We will have pro demos done in a few weeks.

And yes, the whole notion of our IR engine development is to be be able to use active monitors such as the Mackie's you mention, and have not only great tone, but a great playing experience as well.


Thx


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Kali Yuga said:


> I would also like to see something about the DAR cabinets, at the very least what speakers are used in them since we are seeing clips of the DAR amplifiers through matching cabinets. Speakers are as much of an influence over what we're hearing than anything else is.



The 4x12 cabs in our videos typically had K100's on the bottom and T75's on top. We are now also experimenting with the lead 80's. Perhaps the K100's with the Lead 80's maybe my favourite combination. 

The 2x12 cabs in our videos usually would have V30's. Our amps are very transparent and really let the characteristics of the whole signal chain come through. So everything from guitar wood, pickups, cables, down to speakers makes a significant difference in the overall tone. 

All our cabs also have full DMX-512 lighting systems included and can be finished in most any kind of tolex. 

Thx


----------



## Kali Yuga

I'm certainly not complaining about the recordings, I'm glad to get anything, but can't wait to hear some decent recordings once these amps get on the market. Awesome to hear it will be fine to work with active monitors too. Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## goherpsNderp

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> The 4x12 cabs in our videos typically had K100's on the bottom and T75's on top. We are now also experimenting with the lead 80's. Perhaps the K100's with the Lead 80's maybe my favourite combination.
> 
> The 2x12 cabs in our videos usually would have V30's. Our amps are very transparent and really let the characteristics of the whole signal chain come through. So everything from guitar wood, pickups, cables, down to speakers makes a significant difference in the overall tone.
> 
> All our cabs also have full DMX-512 lighting systems included and can be finished in most any kind of tolex.
> 
> Thx



came here to ask about the speaker config and nice to see it's already answered.

i must say though, i am definitely aching to try an FBM through a 4x12 mesa cab as well as 4x12 and 2x12 orange cabs. uuuugghhhhhhh...


----------



## teqnick

Definitely intrigued by the FBM-100h. Can't wait to get more info on these.


----------



## signalgrey

Sicarius said:


> So uh, when I become rich. I'm getting one of these or a Forza, instead of a VH4 like I've wanted.
> 
> God. Damn.



They arent that expensive actually, especially considering what you are getting. A VH4 is gonna run you close to 5k easy..you could get 2 forzas for that. thats 8 channels of class A genius.


----------



## Kali Yuga

So, what's the word on those preamps? I thought they would be coming out sometime soon and I haven't seen pictures yet. Is it too late to drop a deposit and get on the list?


----------



## TMM

Kali Yuga said:


> So, what's the word on those preamps? I thought they would be coming out sometime soon and I haven't seen pictures yet. Is it too late to drop a deposit and get on the list?



Read a few posts up for the timing.


----------



## cyril v

I'm just gonna drop this off here...

Dar FBM cocktease... - Ultimate Metal Forum


----------



## scherzo1928

... Holy pinksock batman!


----------



## goherpsNderp

just watched it. god the crunch is amazing. it's got the crunch of randalls but with that tube warmth. i would go as far as to say that it's got way more crunch than i would ever need so i'd probably dial it back a bit. still a shame that we can't get a good idea of the bass. just gotta be there in person.

would be cool to see mnemic play around with one of these. also ion dissonance and josh travis. UGHHH...


----------



## metal_sam14

goherpsNderp said:


> just watched it. god the crunch is amazing. it's got the crunch of randalls but with that tube warmth. i would go as far as to say that it's got way more crunch than i would ever need so i'd probably dial it back a bit. still a shame that we can't get a good idea of the bass. just gotta be there in person.
> 
> would be cool to see mnemic play around with one of these. also* ion dissonance *and josh travis. UGHHH...



THAT would be fucking amazing!


----------



## Shabadoo

Hot damn! That thing sounds killer, now if only DAR had a dealer in Canada.


----------



## Kali Yuga

got a preamp ordered and considering a head now... maybe the second production run


----------



## Shabadoo

That pre amp is very tempting, I'll wait to hear it though, I'm interested to see how much of the tone is derived from the power section considering it seems to be rather unique.


----------



## sell2792

Pretty cool from the little bit I've seen, but it just costs too god damn much. I need to get rich ASAP.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Be interested to see more clips of these. There's no way in hell I'd be able to afford them but will sound cool.  I assume Meshuggah will be using them on the new album as they've mentioned going back to tube heads, so will be cool to hear the results.


----------



## S-O

The heads amazing and all, but those cabs that light up, that's where the real tone is!


----------



## oniduder




----------



## tr0n

oniduder said:


>




This was posted on the previous page. -_-


----------



## Holy Katana

I remember when someone got a DAR here a while back, and I was thinking, "Holy shit, those are some huge tubes."

I'm still thinking the same thing. Do they have any reason why they use them, other than as a gimmick? I mean, obviously they sound good, but still.

I'm interested in the IR box. I can't afford one now, but it would be a nice companion to my HD500 eventually if it has a wide variety of cabs (i.e., not just metal-oriented ones).


----------



## Kali Yuga

I was under the impression that you will be able to edit the IR 'Jocke Box' through USB and load your preferred IRs, if you aren't satisfied with the stock ones being designed by Jocke Skog.


----------



## Holy Katana

Yeah, but then they aren't super-duper high-quality like these are supposed to be.

Honestly, I haven't really used IRs much because I'm too lazy to find ones I like. And because it seems that amp modeling is really more of a metal thing than it is for any other genre, and as such, the IRs I've found seem to be mostly geared towards metal, which I don't really play much (partly because I don't listen to it very often, and partly because I don't really have any guitars that are suited towards it, particularly the kind of metal I'd want to play). I'd love some IRs that match up with the cabs and mics on my HD500. I'm sure they're out there, but like I said, I'm lazy.

I like the cab models on the HD500 anyway, but I've heard from everyone that apparently IRs are just objectively better in every way, so I figure I should at least give them a shot. I know they're excellent for reverb, especially when they're of expensive or rare reverb units that you'd have to pay an arm and a leg to get the sound of otherwise.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Any new eta's? I haven't seen any new pics especially of the preamp or gotten emails. Other than what I've heard on here. Just curious of a general time frame I can expect it. Like another month?


----------



## Ben.Last

Scott Hull is switching to DAR, figured some people here may be interested in that fact.


----------



## gunshow86de

Lern2swim said:


> Scott Hull is switching to DAR, figured some people here may be interested in that fact.



I see you also "like" DAR on Facebook.


----------



## TMM

Lern2swim said:


> Scott Hull is switching to DAR, figured some people here may be interested in that fact.



I'm pretty sure he's used just about everything at least once.


----------



## Pewtershmit

DAR is coming to Vancouver! Since we're doing so many 7s and 8's as well as being the main engl dealer for the West, DAR seems like a good fit for us and it doesn't hurt that Curt(Muffgoat) is a HUGE Meshuggah fan either. 

Exciting stuff!


----------



## tr0n

Sweet, I'm emigrating to Vancouver next year (if all goes to plan), and I'll be bringing my FBM-PX with me.  I'll have to pay you guys a visit when I'm settled.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Hey guys

Sorry for the lack of updates. Been crazy busy....

Things are coming along very well. We will have new videos from Sweden early next week as well as new progress pics of the pedal. We'll also be presenting the new logos for the overall line. 

We'll try to do a better job of keeping everyone up to date. 

And yes, we are super happy to have Scott as part of the team. He is going to have a killer rig built around the pedal for international touring that is really going to highlight what the pedal will be able to do. 

Thanks

Paul


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Also very happy to be working with Danny and his team over at R & R Music.


----------



## MacTown09

New vid of the amp. Also looks like Ola is playing a Strandberg.


----------



## Malkav

The cellphone videos are a really bad idea, they're kinda frustrating cause you can't hear the charateristic of the amps properly cause it's a shitty cellphone mic and to be honest just having someone sitting around tweaking knobs while another guy goes chug chug chug chug chug is a bit mundane. I think advertising these amps like this actually puts out a very unproffessional image, you should seriously get a proper demo video done with the amp recorded correctly and with some sort of flow or actual goal in displaying each tone. Kinda like the monsters of high gain videos but actually thought out to really show what the units can do, also include mic'd vs unmic'd demos for the IR and use something industry standard like an SM57 for the test.

I don't know how good these amps will be, all the information regarding DAR amps I do seems to turn up good results and we all know that Meshuggah = djent = OMG BROOTALZ > ALL. So it's a give in that this should be good, however if I hadn't had this prior knowledge and I went searching online and found these videos I would dismiss it as shit and never bother again. I also realise that regardless of this there'll probably be a huge waiting list to so much as have an opportunity to breathe on these things, however I can't help but feel that these "amateur" videos only do more harm than good to your companies perceived standards.


----------



## Larrikin666

DAR always puts out proper demos when they get a chance. These aren't done yet though. They kind of need to finish the tweaks to the prototypes first. I'd certainly rather hear these little teasers than be sitting completely in the dark with my deposit out there. 

Don't you like seeing pictures of a guitar as it's being worked on?


----------



## S-O

Also, for a camera mic, it sounds FANTASTIC. They were recording this, so I wonder why they didn't use the multitracks with the video.


----------



## Invader

Malkav said:


> The cellphone videos are a really bad idea, they're kinda frustrating cause you can't hear the charateristic of the amps properly cause it's a shitty cellphone mic and to be honest just having someone sitting around tweaking knobs while another guy goes chug chug chug chug chug is a bit mundane. I think advertising these amps like this actually puts out a very unproffessional image, you should seriously get a proper demo video done with the amp recorded correctly and with some sort of flow or actual goal in displaying each tone. Kinda like the monsters of high gain videos but actually thought out to really show what the units can do, also include mic'd vs unmic'd demos for the IR and use something industry standard like an SM57 for the test.



Didn't you read title of the video? DAR FBM *Teaser*. You can be 100% sure there will be a proper video from Ola.


----------



## cyril v

Malkav said:


> The cellphone videos are a really bad idea, they're kinda frustrating cause you can't hear the charateristic of the amps properly cause it's a shitty cellphone mic and to be honest just having someone sitting around tweaking knobs while another guy goes chug chug chug chug chug is a bit mundane. I think advertising these amps like this actually puts out a very unproffessional image, you should seriously get a proper demo video done with the amp recorded correctly and with some sort of flow or actual goal in displaying each tone. Kinda like the monsters of high gain videos but actually thought out to really show what the units can do, also include mic'd vs unmic'd demos for the IR and use something industry standard like an SM57 for the test.
> 
> I don't know how good these amps will be, all the information regarding DAR amps I do seems to turn up good results and we all know that Meshuggah = djent = OMG BROOTALZ > ALL. So it's a give in that this should be good, however if I hadn't had this prior knowledge and I went searching online and found these videos I would dismiss it as shit and never bother again. I also realise that regardless of this there'll probably be a huge waiting list to so much as have an opportunity to breathe on these things, however I can't help but feel that these "amateur" videos only do more harm than good to your companies perceived standards.



Read the thread man, the amp was still in the final testing phase the last time it was questioned... it'd be absolutely pointless to spend the time to release pro recordings of an amp that is still in the process of being tweaked. I'm sure when the amp is finalized, we will be hearing pro quality stuff. These are "Teaser" for a reason, I'm sure most people check these videos out know what they're getting into when they press play.


----------



## MF_Kitten

jesus, the tone shaping options are ridiculous. listen carefully to that last video. they're doing both pre-and-post-distortion EQ stuff in there. amazing.

edit: separately too, i might add.


----------



## tr0n

MF_Kitten said:


> jesus, the tone shaping options are ridiculous. listen carefully to that last video. they're doing both pre-and-post-distortion EQ stuff in there. amazing.
> 
> edit: separately too, i might add.


Gonna be loads of fun dialing in tones on the PX when I get it. Will probably be rather enlightening too.


----------



## Malkav

I realise they're teasers, but the first two were honestly horrible and sounded atrocious, the third was a major step up, but I think even in the teasers it may be nice to have a little bit more information or talking or pre-planning with regards to what's being played. If the guy sitting behind the guitar played a riff and then the guy tweaking said hmmkay now I'm gonna fiddle with x control etc I just think it would be a bit more informative and possibly better as a teaser. 

With regards to people seeing these and accpeting them cause they're teasers, I have my doubts about how informed the general public is really. On SS we may all know and herald DAR but I guarantee if I posted this on my local forum everyone would just be going WTF? I just really think that even for a tester/tweaky video there could be more communication of what's going on.

I'm by no means trying to offend, I just think DAR is a really cool company and I really hope these amps do well cause I'm a Meshuggah fan and would like to see these guys get more of the attention they deserve. First impressions are sometimes all you get and once it's out on the internet you can't take it back, I just think as a company trying to expand or attract new business extra special care should be taken in every regard of public appearance.


----------



## DAR Amps

Malkav said:


> I realise they're teasers, but the first two were honestly horrible and sounded atrocious, the third was a major step up, but I think even in the teasers it may be nice to have a little bit more information or talking or pre-planning with regards to what's being played. If the guy sitting behind the guitar played a riff and then the guy tweaking said hmmkay now I'm gonna fiddle with x control etc I just think it would be a bit more informative and possibly better as a teaser.
> 
> With regards to people seeing these and accpeting them cause they're teasers, I have my doubts about how informed the general public is really. On SS we may all know and herald DAR but I guarantee if I posted this on my local forum everyone would just be going WTF? I just really think that even for a tester/tweaky video there could be more communication of what's going on.
> 
> I'm by no means trying to offend, I just think DAR is a really cool company and I really hope these amps do well cause I'm a Meshuggah fan and would like to see these guys get more of the attention they deserve. First impressions are sometimes all you get and once it's out on the internet you can't take it back, I just think as a company trying to expand or attract new business extra special care should be taken in every regard of public appearance.




Point well taken, Thanks,

It's always a balance as to how to best/when release product info, sound clips, etc... Big companies often do so once product is about to roll, or even after initial product ships, but for us, considering this product line is a true team effort and involves musicians/sound engineers/ and others around the globe... and developed specifically for this modern metal community, I felt it would be cool to have some stuff out there first even if not polished, especially considering so many people are following the progression of the overall project and products.

The pedal is based on this amp and it's tone/controls, etc... Development vid's will come out as well if people want. If unpolished vid's turn off a few people, that's okay with us. We will be careful not to put out crap, but an occasional teaser is just plain fun!


Cheers!


----------



## cyb

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but I have enjoyed the teasers so far, even if some of them don't have the best sound quality. I'd rather have that than nothing at all, tbh. now. bring on the preamp pedal vids!


----------



## S-O

Teasers 4 lyfe.


----------



## S-O

For all those who were teaser hatin':


----------



## Variant

Fuck yeah, that shit is tasty. Still sounds djenty as fuck, and cuts like knife, but there's a heavy pour of organic amp feel there for those who think this type of sound is generally too "stiff". Winsauce.


----------



## S-O

I read through the thread a little too quickly, I remember DAR somewhat dismissing the price in the original post, is there any update to the price, or did I skim too quickly? This head has me very interested, and even if I pass on the head, the Jocke Box sounds like it would be killer idea and piece of gear.

Tone wise, I can't wait for Ola's channel run through he occasionaly does with gear, the cleans sound cool, I can not visually tell if it's on the clean channel of crunch though, not quite a cop on anything, rather dark but with enough presence to be articulate. Velvety I suppose, I am not great with buzz/hype words to describe tones. Wantin' to hear the lead channel. I'm a fan of a more liquid gain sound for leads, but with the option for a bit rougher razor sound.

Stoked for more to come.


----------



## electricred

S-O said:


> For all those who were teaser hatin':



I want this so badly.


----------



## cyril v

ola is the man!



There should be one more video coming.


----------



## signalgrey

I enjoyed these videos. alot.
they made my peen hard for when mine arrives.
hard peen. i said it. it wasnt a typo.

Hard.




Peen.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

These DAR amps sound horrible to me. They sound really solid state and characterless. Seems like an awful lot of money for an amp that sounds that bad. However I'm just one set of ears. Takes all kinds as they say.


----------



## cyril v

Here's the lastest youtube clip from Ola,


----------



## georg_f

the coolest amp ever created by mankind


----------



## technomancer

I wonder if the newest clips have Ola's usual massive post processing on them... his stuff almost always sounds fantastic but is completely useless for seeing what amps actually sound like because of all the post processing


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

technomancer said:


> I wonder if the newest clips have Ola's usual massive post processing on them... his stuff almost always sounds fantastic but is completely useless for seeing what amps actually sound like because of all the post processing




Hey guys....thx for all the comments. There is ZERO post processing on the guitars in all 3 vids. We wanted to give as true of an impression of what the new amps sound like as possible. The only thing that was done was the blending of the mics. What you hear is exactly what the mics picked up. 


Paul


----------



## Sepultorture

Just heard the 8 string video and HOLY FUCK, that was tasty

get Ola to do a Djenty Death metal tone


----------



## Krucifixtion

I really want to hear what the direct IR sound's are going to be like!


----------



## intense134

Man thought i was set on amps but now i'm not sure , sounds great .


----------



## signalgrey

That was the best video yet. Loved the Ben Affleck clip.


----------



## S-O

Little follow up:


----------



## demoniaco

How much will this amp be around for? I want to save my money for this instead of the axe fx II!


----------



## demoniaco

also where the heck can i get one of em TSM MT184 mics???? cant seem to find nothing over the net!


----------



## cyril v

demoniaco said:


> also where the heck can i get one of em TSM MT184 mics???? cant seem to find nothing over the net!



I'm not sure where you could go about buying it, but supposedly that is a clone of this mic:
Amazon.com: KM184 Microphone Kit: Musical Instruments


----------



## S-O

And if you think that sounded good, the KM_84_ is even beter, and Oktava mods sells a clone/mods and existing mic.

Award-winning microphone engineering from Michael Joly


----------



## BryanFTWL

Either that amp hates v30s or I am suddenly turned off by SM57s.


----------



## Invader

The amp sounds monstrous! But I'm more interested in the preamp pedal. Can't wait to hear what it can do with the IR's.


----------



## Krucifixtion

BryanFTWL said:


> Either that amp hates v30s or I am suddenly turned off by SM57s.



It's the 57, which is making it not sound great on it's own. That mic is better when blended with something else that's more bassy and fuller sounding. The amp is probably kind of bright considering that much attack. So, the combo of that and V30's and just hearing a 57 on it's own doesn't make it sound too nice. Blended with all those other mics it does help add some sizzle though.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Hey guys, just a quick comment on the new amp and speaker choice. The amp is super sensitive and transparent to every aspect of the signal chain, from pickups, guitar wood, and very importantly, speaker choice. 

The v30's sound awesome and is probably the best choice for the most versatility. My favorite are probably the K100's.... so pls take what was captured in these videos for what it is. 

We just posted high quality audio files of the demos on our FB page so you can hear the recordings without YT compression. 


DAR Amplification | Facebook


Thx 

Paul


----------



## Animus

So I am confused a bit. Is this preamp pedal all a digital emulation or does it have tubes in it, or a hybrid of the two? Or is the convolution aspect the only digital part?


I didn't finish reading through the thread but I think maybe the 10,000 point ir thing refers to dynamic convolution. Many snapshots were taken at various gain levels too capture the dynamic response of the cab, which is sort of like Sintefex.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Animus said:


> So I am confused a bit. Is this preamp pedal all a digital emulation or does it have tubes in it, or a hybrid of the two? Or is the convolution aspect the only digital part?
> 
> 
> I didn't finish reading through the thread but I think maybe the 10,000 point ir thing refers to dynamic convolution. Many snapshots were taken at various gain levels too capture the dynamic response of the cap, which is sort of like Sintefex.




Hey Animus

The FBM-PX is the exact same 4 channel tube preamp as the FBM-100 heads, but in a compact floor based form factor. It is also stereo.

The Impulse Response engine provides the emulation of the power amp section (not only ours), cabinets/speakers and mics. 


Paul


----------



## Animus

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> Hey Animus
> 
> The FBM-PX is the exact same 4 channel tube preamp as the FBM-100 heads, but in a compact floor based form factor. It is also stereo.
> 
> The Impulse Response engine provides the emulation of the power amp section (not only ours), cabinets/speakers and mics.
> 
> 
> Paul




Thanks Paul! That must be one big floor pedal then since those tubes in the head are huge!  

I'd like to hear samples of the clean channel on these amps.


----------



## TMM

Animus said:


> That must be one big floor pedal then since those tubes in the head are huge!



 the preamp tubes, not the pint glass power tubes.


----------



## Hollowway

Hey Paul, you guys should release a stand alone power amp. The preamplifier is cool, but when I think DAR I think of those fat power tubes. Any thought about putting so ethic like that in the pipeline?


----------



## signalgrey

Hey Paul,
I thought i posted this but Im gonna make sure anyway.

Is there a way to hear samples with the different speakers? V30s, K100s, etc...
You were saying how everything in the chain really affects the sound and Im really curious just how much it does effect it. Even just something simple like V30,K100,T75 or something like that.

Im curious why you like the K100 over the V30s and Id love to be able to hear those difference. I know its a lot to ask.


----------



## remington

So I've been looking for a 4 channel pre amp pedal for a long time, but I've never really done anything with IR's, so my (probly silly) question is, can I use this as just a regular pre amp and add IR's if I want just for various effects and or reverbe and such? Or is it more of a axe fx thing? Sorry, im still a little confused.


----------



## tr0n

You can use the PX as just a preamp. It has pre-IR outputs so you can plug it into a separate power amp or into an interface maybe for digital fun.


----------



## remington

Thanks for clearing that up for me man!


----------



## Animus

TMM said:


> the preamp tubes, not the pint glass power tubes.




lol Yeah your right. I got confused obviously.


----------



## Krucifixtion

I feel like a kid on a road trip with my parents....."Are we there yet????" LOL....sorry I am just really pumped for this I need new gear now so I can start putting together my preamp rig. Future Breed Preamp in an ATA Pedal Board case with some sort of awesome delay pedal and tuner. Simple and effective. Now the big question is how is it gonna sound with a 5150 II for a poweramp temporarily? I might just go direct into our PA for band practice though. Wow...this thing isn't even out and I am way ahead of myself


----------



## Animus

When is this stuff supposed to be released? I had read it was back in May and June.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Krucifixtion said:


> I feel like a kid on a road trip with my parents....."Are we there yet????" LOL....sorry I am just really pumped for this I need new gear now so I can start putting together my preamp rig. Future Breed Preamp in an ATA Pedal Board case with some sort of awesome delay pedal and tuner. Simple and effective. Now the big question is how is it gonna sound with a 5150 II for a poweramp temporarily? I might just go direct into our PA for band practice though. Wow...this thing isn't even out and I am way ahead of myself




Hey Krucifixtion


We are all pumped about this new line of gear and doing all we can to get things shipping asap. Logos are finally done and assembling will soon start for both the 1st runs of heads and pedals. I will hopefully have new pictures to post this week. 

I am also going to be building a simple board with the PX, a L6 M9 for pre fx and likely a timefactor in the loop. I will be using this as my travel rig and transporting it along with my laptop and accessories in a Native Instruments Traktor S4 trolley. 

The pedal will sound great into the loop of your 5150 and also direct into the PA/monitors. You can run both direct/and to poweramp/cabs at the same time also. 


Paul


----------



## guy in latvia

wow that pedal sounds incredible! tanks for all the heard work!


----------



## Krucifixtion

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> Hey Krucifixtion
> 
> 
> We are all pumped about this new line of gear and doing all we can to get things shipping asap. Logos are finally done and assembling will soon start for both the 1st runs of heads and pedals. I will hopefully have new pictures to post this week.
> 
> I am also going to be building a simple board with the PX, a L6 M9 for pre fx and likely a timefactor in the loop. I will be using this as my travel rig and transporting it along with my laptop and accessories in a Native Instruments Traktor S4 trolley.
> 
> The pedal will sound great into the loop of your 5150 and also direct into the PA/monitors. You can run both direct/and to poweramp/cabs at the same time also.
> 
> 
> Paul



Sound's great Paul! Basically I want 2 different rigs for the 2 bands I am in. With one band I am going to keep using my ENGL Invader head with my pedals and the other I am going to use the FBM-PX with the 5150 II power amp until I maybe get a rackmount power amp or like I said I might just use our PA, cause it's quite huge! lol

Paul I should also ask, do you know the dimensions of the preamp? I know you said a while back you had to make it bigger?


----------



## tr0n

Krucifixtion said:


> Paul I should also ask, do you know the dimensions of the preamp? I know you said a while back you had to make it bigger?



I'd be interested to know this too, I remember the original announcement of the product line about this pedal being able to fit in a backpack. That part intrigued me and it'd be great if it were still true.

Do you also have any figure for the weight? Either a figure or a comparative estimate?


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

tr0n said:


> I'd be interested to know this too, I remember the original announcement of the product line about this pedal being able to fit in a backpack. That part intrigued me and it'd be great if it were still true.
> 
> Do you also have any figure for the weight? Either a figure or a comparative estimate?




Hey guys. I will have the weight for it later this week. I will also confirm the dimensions but I believe they are 9 inches depth, 11 inches wide and 2.5 inches tall at the rear.


----------



## Animus

There was a still of the pedal chassis in one of those FBM videos I watched.


----------



## Wookieslayer

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> Hey guys. I will have the weight for it later this week. I will also confirm the dimensions but I believe they are 9 inches depth, 11 inches wide and 2.5 inches tall at the rear.



Very cool! about the width/lenght of a piece of notebook paper haha.


----------



## Ben.Last

I'm strongly considering getting the preamp and sticking it in a sliding rack drawer. That size sounds like it would work, even for the shallow rack I have.

Am I missing something referring to there being a waiting list, or is it just first come first served when they're released?


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Lern2swim said:


> I'm strongly considering getting the preamp and sticking it in a sliding rack drawer. That size sounds like it would work, even for the shallow rack I have.
> 
> Am I missing something referring to there being a waiting list, or is it just first come first served when they're released?



It should fit in a rack shelf for sure.... We are currently accepting deposits for the second run of pedals and heads. They are shipped in accordance to the order of the deposits placed. 


Paul


----------



## Ben.Last

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> It should fit in a rack shelf for sure.... We are currently accepting deposits for the second run of pedals and heads. They are shipped in accordance to the order of the deposits placed.
> 
> 
> Paul



And approximately when would the 2nd run be happening? (just a general "in a few months" or "midway through next year" is what I'm looking for)


----------



## Krucifixtion

Any new ETA on when first run Heads and Preamps are shipping? I know I put my deposit in back in March I believe, so I am assuming I'll be on that first run somewhere.


----------



## Animus

Lern2swim said:


> And approximately when would the 2nd run be happening? (just a general "in a few months" or "midway through next year" is what I'm looking for)




THe first run is already sold out? Where the hell do you place your order? It's hard enough to find the Forza and that's been out for 2 years.


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Animus said:


> THe first run is already sold out? Where the hell do you place your order?  It's hard enough to find the Forza and that's been out for 2 years.




Hey guys. Yes the first run for both the FBM-100H and the FBM-PX (preamp pedal) were sold out some time ago. We are now accepting deposits for the second run which should ship in September. If you want to place an order, please email me at [email protected].

Thx


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

Krucifixtion said:


> Any new ETA on when first run Heads and Preamps are shipping? I know I put my deposit in back in March I believe, so I am assuming I'll be on that first run somewhere.



We should start shipping the first units in a few weeks. We are doing all we can to get the gear out asap. We had a number of last minute changes from Fredrik as well as a significant delay from our transformer supplier. 

We really appreciate everyone's patience.


Paul


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

one more thing guys. We have reached a deal with Odyssey Gear to supply DAR/FBM branded custom ATA flight cases for our amps. 

Specs are:

Lift off lid design

Black composite panels (about 40% lighter than wood but just as strong)

All black hardware

High density foam

Wheels

Handle

Price is to be confirmed but should be around $275 usd. 


Paul


----------



## tr0n

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> one more thing guys. We have reached a deal with Odyssey Gear to supply DAR/FBM branded custom ATA flight cases for our amps.
> 
> Specs are:
> 
> Lift off lid design
> 
> Black composite panels (about 40% lighter than wood but just as strong)
> 
> All black hardware
> 
> High density foam
> 
> Wheels
> 
> Handle
> 
> Price is to be confirmed but should be around $275 usd.
> 
> 
> Paul



This is very cool, especially the wheels. As good as hard cases are, I hate carrying heavy stuff around.

Looking really forward to pics, clips etc.


----------



## electricred

What's going on with the $3990 expanded version of the amplifier head?


----------



## Paul - DAR Amps

electricred said:


> What's going on with the $3990 expanded version of the amplifier head?




Hey man

The HX should be ready in a couple of months. Working on the switchable mono/stereo capability now. It will have the IR engine, ability to run without cabs, and a lot more i/o in the back panel like balanced stereo i/o for reamping and proper 4cm. 

Paul


----------



## theo

This is really exciting, can't wait


----------



## Krucifixtion

Paul - DAR Amps said:


> We should start shipping the first units in a few weeks. We are doing all we can to get the gear out asap. We had a number of last minute changes from Fredrik as well as a significant delay from our transformer supplier.
> 
> We really appreciate everyone's patience.
> 
> 
> Paul



Hey Paul I sent you an email a few days ago, but I'm not sure if you got it? I just wanted to know when we need to make our final payment if we have only put down a deposit so far..or are you just going to message/email everyone when they are ready for shipping? Thanks!


----------



## Xifter

Krucifixtion said:


> Hey Paul I sent you an email a few days ago, but I'm not sure if you got it? I just wanted to know when we need to make our final payment if we have only put down a deposit so far..or are you just going to message/email everyone when they are ready for shipping? Thanks!


I am not Paul but mike @dar told me recently that when my amp was getting ready to be shipped that there would be a call or email(possibly both) informing me 1-2 weeks prior notifying me to get funds freed up and ready and that payment would be right before the amp ships.

Also, if you want to know how cool DAR customer service is, Mike actually sold me his own DAR personal business use model that was just going to be made for them to have/use onsite. This was after a dealer that had 2 outgoing unsold FBM's refused to part with one that he hadnt sold yet so his shop would have two unsold units at his store for customer demos etc. Can't blame him for that. But when that fell through, Mike went ahead and did what he did for me which was such a very cool gesture and I can't speak enough about how great of an experience I had talking with him each instance and how thorough he was in answering all of my questions. 

I have dealt with many companies in the past and the the customer service I received from Mike tops them all.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Xifter said:


> I am not Paul but mike @dar told me recently that when my amp was getting ready to be shipped that there would be a call or email(possibly both) informing me 1-2 weeks prior notifying me to get funds freed up and ready and that payment would be right before the amp ships.
> 
> Also, if you want to know how cool DAR customer service is, Mike actually sold me his own DAR personal business use model that was just going to be made for them to have/use onsite. This was after a dealer that had 2 outgoing unsold FBM's refused to part with one that he hadnt sold yet so his shop would have two unsold units at his store for customer demos etc. Can't blame him for that. But when that fell through, Mike went ahead and did what he did for me which was such a very cool gesture and I can't speak enough about how great of an experience I had talking with him each instance and how thorough he was in answering all of my questions.
> 
> I have dealt with many companies in the past and the the customer service I received from Mike tops them all.



I got an email back from Paul with more info, but thanks man! That's pretty much what I figured anyway. Really nice guys and are very helpful. I hate when people leave you in the dark after ordering stuff and these guys have obviously done all they can to keep us updated.


----------



## Thor1777

these amps are very interesting, would love to find one...wonder if tone merchants has one


----------



## hevie7

I got my order in on the next run of the FBM preamp!! I can't wait till someone posts some clips from the first batch of 25. From what I've read they should be out soon.


----------



## signalgrey

I cant wait. Mine should be arriving semi-soon!

edit: 3000 POSTS!!!!


----------



## tr0n

signalgrey said:


> I cant wait. Mine should be arriving semi-soon!
> 
> edit: 3000 POSTS!!!!


Did you get some email about it? I'm quite sure I'm on the first run but I've yet to hear anything...


----------



## signalgrey

tr0n said:


> Did you get some email about it? I'm quite sure I'm on the first run but I've yet to hear anything...


 
Not only am I first run, I was THEE first (quite proud of that actually)

We went back and forth emails not too long ago and they are almost ready to ship, Im waiting for a ATA case to go with it too.


----------



## tr0n

signalgrey said:


> Not only am I first run, I was THEE first (quite proud of that actually)
> 
> We went back and forth emails not too long ago and they are almost ready to ship, Im waiting for a ATA case to go with it too.


I emailed Paul earlier this month about it, he said they were in assembly at that time. Hopefully not too long now. I would like to have been updated a bit more via their Facebook page at least, and they haven't been so good at setting expectations with time...but I guess being a relatively small outfit it's hard work keeping everything going.

I'm sure when it arrives I'll be blown away.


----------



## noizfx

I'm on the first run of the FBM-PX, can't wait til mine arrives!


----------



## Wookieslayer

I'm really really curious about the preamp! Sounds quite possibly better than an Axe FX for me


----------



## noizfx

Well, at least it has 4 preamp tubes!


----------



## hevie7

Has anyone recieved their FBM preamp yet?


----------



## tr0n

hevie7 said:


> Has anyone recieved their FBM preamp yet?


Still no word. There hasn't been much of an update via Facebook recently, I can only assume they're working hard to get it ready.

I've stopped emailing for updates because whatever ETA I'm given passes by with no word at all. So I'm just gonna sit my ass tight, forget about it, and when it is finally ready it'll be a nice surprise.


----------



## hevie7

tr0n said:


> Still no word. There hasn't been much of an update via Facebook recently, I can only assume they're working hard to get it ready.
> 
> I've stopped emailing for updates because whatever ETA I'm given passes by with no word at all. So I'm just gonna sit my ass tight, forget about it, and when it is finally ready it'll be a nice surprise.


 
Well, Christmas is right around the corner!


----------



## TMM

I talked with Mike & Paul last week, and I guess they're most of the way done w/ the production, but something about the integration of the different technologies has been taking longer than expected. Mike said they know what needs to be done though, and are actively working on it. Paul said it could still be a while though (possibly winter on the high end) before they're ready to ship, because they have some more travel coming up that will delay the work


----------



## Alcoholocaust

just preamps or heads too?


----------



## TMM

sensoryamusia said:


> just preamps or heads too?



I was asking with respect to my FBM-PX I have on order, but I would imagine it would pertain to any of the units with integrated tube pre's & digital IR engines.


----------



## DaethedralXiphos7FX

Ok I don't know if anyone has posted this or if anyone knows. But who deals DAR amps in the US? I know they are based out of Cali, but how are you guys pre-ordering gear already and where?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Ok I don't know if anyone has posted this or if anyone knows. But who deals DAR amps in the US? I know they are based out of Cali, but how are you guys pre-ordering gear already and where?



[email protected]


----------



## TMM

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Ok I don't know if anyone has posted this or if anyone knows. But who deals DAR amps in the US? I know they are based out of Cali, but how are you guys pre-ordering gear already and where?



Ordering direct from DAR


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Ok I don't know if anyone has posted this or if anyone knows. But who deals DAR amps in the US? I know they are based out of Cali, but how are you guys pre-ordering gear already and where?



ss.org pixies obviously, didn't you get the memo!?!?


----------



## spattergrind

It looks sick, sounds pretty good, but I think you get way more and can possibly sound clearer with the axefx and pay less. IMO.


----------



## Ben.Last

spattergrind said:


> It looks sick, sounds pretty good, but I think you get way more and can possibly sound clearer with the axefx and pay less. IMO.



Diff'rent strokes...


----------



## spattergrind

Lern2swim said:


> Diff'rent strokes...



Thats why I said *IMO*


----------



## Ben.Last

spattergrind said:


> Thats why I said *IMO*



Yeah, I was agreeing


----------



## tr0n

I don't get why people are comparing these things with the AxeFX. 

The FBM100H is just like a traditional modern head (features-wise) and the PX is a 4 channel preamp with a digital backend. That's the only similarity I can see. The AxeFX is a whole different ball game, all digital, built in FX etc etc.

I don't believe these amps are an alternative or rival to the AxeFX in anyway. I think anyone who believes that misunderstands the products.


----------



## Wookieslayer

tr0n said:


> I don't believe these amps are an alternative or rival to the AxeFX in anyway. I think anyone who believes that misunderstands the products.



True, but depending on the context of the player and their goals for the live rig, I could see the preamp with a pedalboard effects unit being an Axe killer for some


----------



## tr0n

Sure, but that would mean buying an FX unit from elsewhere, so the situation would be not a lot different from having any other amp, particularly one with a line out which we're seeing a few of now.

But I still don't see how the PX or 100HX are Axe killers _in their own right_. There are a hell of a lot of Axe users who aren't metalheads too.

I guess people who have this mindset really mean: "Surely the PX combined with an external FX processor would be a great alternative to an AxeFX."


----------



## Krucifixtion

I totally agree that the FBM-PX can't really be compared as an alternative to an Axe-FX. However, for me it will be a good alternative simply, because I don't really use that many effects. All I need is a really good delay and maybe some type of phasey/chorus like effect and I'm all set. So, really I could run a pedal or two with the FBM-PX all layed out on a pedal board and have really all I need for a live rig. With the balanced simulated out I could run FOH into a venues PA if I feel it is good enough and for recording I can just use plugins for various Delay and whatever effects I need. So, for me it's way cheaper than an Axe-FX, but honestly I don't see that I really need all that an Axe-FX is capable of. I am more into simplicity these days.


----------



## wlfers

I think its just anything new will bring out the "is it the axe-fx killer" question. Like the kemper amp 

I'd really like to hear some more versatile clips of these.


----------



## wlfers

Posted to their facebook:



> Hey Folks,
> *
> We would like to announce that as we consolidate operations exclusively to our new High Street Production/Research Facility in Palo Alto California, we will be handling all Sales and Marketing Activities domestically here at our Headquarters. Paul De Maio will no longer be your contact or representative for DAR products.
> 
> During this process of aligning our new support staff all correspondence regarding DAR orders and support should be directed directly to us here at Headquarters. Please direct questions directly to me, [email protected], or [email protected] Feel free to give us a call as well [phone number]
> 
> There will be no interruption to current production and future products release.
> 
> Thanks,
> DAR Amplification, LLC*



Paul was a really great guy and always responded asap to my inquiries.


----------



## tr0n

athawulf said:


> Posted to their facebook:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul was a really great guy and always responded asap to my inquiries.


+1

This is a shame. I wonder what might have happened, but it would be wrong to speculate. He was generally very good at responding to emails, I hope this new department will do a good job of it. Every time I asked for an ETA on my PX preorder I was told they would start shipping 'in a couple of weeks' with pictures to follow 'in the next few days'. This has happened at least 3 times and it's been a couple of months since I last emailed. Very poor handling of customer expectations, but like I've said before, I'll just sit my arse tight.


----------



## noizfx

Hey guys, just so you know that I've joined the DAR team, even though I'm mainly in charge of the Asia market, but in the mean time if you guys need anything I can still try to help in case Mike gets too busy! You can contact me at [email protected]!


----------



## geofreesun

what's the situation on the preamp? i vaguely remember them saying september ship dates a few months back, but now it's november, i just hope to get mine around xmas if possible


----------



## wlfers

Send them an email and post the update for us? 

Last I heard a month or two ago was middle november. But they also said that the preamps would come after the heads, so since those haven't been shipping I'm not entirely certain.


----------



## signalgrey

noizfx said:


> Hey guys, just so you know that I've joined the DAR team, even though I'm mainly in charge of the Asia market, but in the mean time if you guys need anything I can still try to help in case Mike gets too busy! You can contact me at [email protected]!



Are you taking care of Korea too? last time i checked Im the only one (and the first) to get an FBM in Korea


----------



## tr0n

I've requested a refund on my preorder, decided to take my business elsewhere. And I'm not so keen anymore on a high gain only pedal, so I'm looking elsewhere. Mike's been good about it, and I'll certainly look to DAR in the future for high gain stuff.


----------



## wlfers

tr0n said:


> I've requested a refund on my preorder, decided to take my business elsewhere. And I'm not so keen anymore on a high gain only pedal, so I'm looking elsewhere. Mike's been good about it, and I'll certainly look to DAR in the future for high gain stuff.



Probably the worst part about the wait is not having a time frame. I'd almost rather hear "It will be done in a year" than "the site will be up very very quickly, and the amps will also be here soon".


----------



## Krucifixtion

tr0n said:


> I've requested a refund on my preorder, decided to take my business elsewhere. And I'm not so keen anymore on a high gain only pedal, so I'm looking elsewhere. Mike's been good about it, and I'll certainly look to DAR in the future for high gain stuff.




If I can't get a definite answer by like x-mas time I might be bailing on this too. Might try to just pick up a used Axe-FX Ultra.


----------



## Ben.Last

If you go take a look at their facebook, they have some more info. Basically, it sounds like someone was a bit too optimistic with the initial timeline and, with the restructuring, the new guys are trying to get at least a slightly more accurate estimate out there. Nothing super solid yet though.


----------



## wlfers

The delay isn't (to my knowledge) what's bugging most people, its the lack of communication which makes the delay more difficult to bear. I'd like any picture/tech/general updates.

Paul was optimistic, but he responded to every question I had and would say what the current production issue was. Last I checked he said they needed to change a few things for all the technology to fit in the preamp pedal chassis. I like knowing what the process is, instead of hearing "soon".


----------



## DAR Amps

Hey Guys,

So here's the update.... We will be shipping ALL paid for FBM100 Heads within 30days. Everything is near finished up and they are truly outstanding amps.

I will be in Sweden during December to do the final voicings on the pedal. My flight is booked for Nov 30th, but may move according to the time frame of the guys in Sweden. 

As a additional note, We have Hired Jeff Hilligan (the former production manager/partner from Egnater Amps to DAR) Under his oversight they were able to take the US made production products from a 9 month leadtime to 2 weeks. I understand the frustration you guys have and actively made the requisite changes to address this. 

I assure you the gear is worth the wait. But for those who cannot, just drop me an email... [email protected] and we will find a resolution for ya. Or just give me a call 650 814-1712

The technology is awesome stuff and the gear is outstanding. It is also the most advanced pedal (with 3 DSP's/ tube preamp/ etc) possibly ever conceived. 

As an engineer, I have been 100% focused on the technology and delivering to you guys the best possible tone imaginable. DAR will make greater effort to address the other concerns you guys have voiced. Please, we are always welcome to your input as well.... just give us a call! Ask for Mike...

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## noizfx

signalgrey said:


> Are you taking care of Korea too? last time i checked Im the only one (and the first) to get an FBM in Korea



I'd like to get my paws there too yes, but right now as there are no dealers in Korea, things will have to go direct as you have done! Which is sometimes easier too, just that for sure some people would like to be able to test these amps out before they buy it, since not everyone is like us


----------



## wlfers

^^ Thank you very much for coming here and posting the update. Very excited for the preamp pedal and to hear a date.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Nice to see honest updates and sincere efforts from DAR Amps I have to say 

Any pictures of the pedal at all? I have no need of a monster amp but a beautiful pedal that allows me to record without any fuss is of course something a lot of us yearn for.


----------



## Wookieslayer

athawulf said:


> ^^ Thank you very much for coming here and posting the update. Very excited for the preamp pedal and to hear a date.







ShadyDavey said:


> Nice to see honest updates and sincere efforts from DAR Amps I have to say
> 
> Any pictures of the pedal at all? I have no need of a monster amp but a beautiful pedal that allows me to record without any fuss is of course something a lot of us yearn for.


----------



## wlfers

ShadyDavey said:


> Any pictures of the pedal at all?



The only pics I think they've posted so far has been of the chassis (if you haven't already seen)


----------



## noizfx

There are things that only Mike can answer that I cannot, but I can only say that those pictures of the PX are outdated. While they'll look similar, but they won't look exactly the same. I have begged Mike for pictures, and should have them soon!


----------



## Erazoender

I'm terribly excited for these pedals... I'm almost certain to pick one up in place of an alternate such as a peavey or something.....

Seem like a brilliant design as you'll be able to fit a rig as a travelling guitarist in a bag if you need to do band practices but only have one or two pieces of gear and thus can't move everything. Sure you'll need cabs here and there but hey.... better than having to get 5 heads...... 

Really looking forward to hearing some samples and hopefully taking one for a spin when they're released.


----------



## wlfers

I feel the same way. My band has a pretty solid pa, so when this comes (and if the IR technology is as groundbreaking as they say) I'll be able to bring just this and my guitar and take it home the same night. Same with performances.

I dislike having my gear scattered about at different places.


----------



## signalgrey

I cant wait to do a serious NAD in a month.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

any word on the FBM-1OOH's?


----------



## noizfx

I can only say: SOON!


----------



## signalgrey

sensoryamusia said:


> any word on the FBM-1OOH's?



Been talking with Mike and as far as I know he is still on track for an early december ship date. At least I am, but I was quite literally first on the list for an FBM. Patience is a virtue I have no problem waiting for a quality product as long as I know no one is running away with my money (which they clearly aren't)


----------



## Iamasingularity

Damn. I want to try the FBM-100, but I live in Japan and all. I`m definitely interested in the final product, got so much gas for this amp.


----------



## signalgrey

Iamasingularity said:


> Damn. I want to try the FBM-100, but I live in Japan and all. I`m definitely interested in the final product, got so much gas for this amp.



they have dealers in Japan I thought. If you really want you can come try mine out when it drops. just an offer.


----------



## noizfx

signalgrey said:


> Been talking with Mike and as far as I know he is still on track for an early december ship date. At least I am, but I was quite literally first on the list for an FBM. Patience is a virtue I have no problem waiting for a quality product as long as I know no one is running away with my money (which they clearly aren't)



You said what I didn't wanna say  but yes that's the plan!

Oh and I was meant to give you an update but I guess you're already updated lol!



signalgrey said:


> they have dealers in Japan I thought. If you really want you can come try mine out when it drops. just an offer.





Iamasingularity said:


> Damn. I want to try the FBM-100, but I live in Japan and all. I`m definitely interested in the final product, got so much gas for this amp.



Unfortunately we don't have any dealers in Japan at the moment at least I haven't got to it yet! Unless Mike got a Japanese dealer without letting me know! But we're looking into that, especially Chthonic will be playing in Japan in February 2012, and the guitarist Jesse is a DAR endorsee so hopefully DAR will kickstart in Japan, as most likely Jesse will be performing with his DAR rig. 

However, we do have a FBM-100H heading to a customer in Japan though! If you're able to track him down and see if he'll let you try it out


----------



## Iamasingularity

signalgrey said:


> they have dealers in Japan I thought. If you really want you can come try mine out when it drops. just an offer.



Damn! I might take your offer seriously, not anytime soon though. I`ve got things to do before going there.



noizfx said:


> You said what I didn't wanna say  but yes that's the plan!
> 
> Oh and I was meant to give you an update but I guess you're already updated lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we don't have any dealers in Japan at the moment at least I haven't got to it yet! Unless Mike got a Japanese dealer without letting me know! But we're looking into that, especially Chthonic will be playing in Japan in February 2012, and the guitarist Jesse is a DAR endorsee so hopefully DAR will kickstart in Japan, as most likely Jesse will be performing with his DAR rig.
> 
> However, we do have a FBM-100H heading to a customer in Japan though! If you're able to track him down and see if he'll let you try it out



Coolio! Chthonic`s pretty interesting. I just hope they won`t be purchasing a DAR amp to plug in their chinese instruments! I own a shamisen, but I can`t imagine buying a FBM for that. Well I don`t want to be a stalker and just track this guy down, but if you have any indirect info that can get me to converse/meet with this guy that would be great! I`ve been watching the demos over and over, and I mean it sounds sick! but I gotta try it out to make a decision.


----------



## noizfx

Iamasingularity said:


> Coolio! Chthonic`s pretty interesting. I just hope they won`t be purchasing a DAR amp to plug in their chinese instruments! I own a shamisen, but I can`t imagine buying a FBM for that. Well I don`t want to be a stalker and just track this guy down, but if you have any indirect info that can get me to converse/meet with this guy that would be great! I`ve been watching the demos over and over, and I mean it sounds sick! but I gotta try it out to make a decision.



Haha of course not... Jesse will be using his DAR FBM-PX through his new ESP signature guitar! If things go as well as I hope then I'll also be there in Japan, maybe backstage too 

But actually I don't have that guy's info, Mike does  however most likely I'll be taking over the customer service with that guy so I'll eventually have it, I'll see how things go! If anything, attend Chthonic's gig opening for Lamb of God in Japan to see FBM in action for yourself! Feb 22nd in Tokyo and Feb 23rd in Osaka!


----------



## Iamasingularity

noizfx said:


> Haha of course not... Jesse will be using his DAR FBM-PX through his new ESP signature guitar! If things go as well as I hope then I'll also be there in Japan, maybe backstage too
> 
> But actually I don't have that guy's info, Mike does  however most likely I'll be taking over the customer service with that guy so I'll eventually have it, I'll see how things go! If anything, attend Chthonic's gig opening for Lamb of God in Japan to see FBM in action for yourself! Feb 22nd in Tokyo and Feb 23rd in Osaka!



Haha, I thought so. It really would be something to meet the peeps from Chthonic and meet you too (and try out the FMB  ) Looks like I`ll have to go the LOG show then! I really doubt the staff are gonna let me backstage unless LOG themselves let me. ARghHH! Just watching the FBM from a distance is gonna be a heartburn! I want to make my guitar bleed to its sound!


----------



## signalgrey

Iamasingularity said:


> Haha, I thought so. It really would be something to meet the peeps from Chthonic and meet you too (and try out the FMB  ) Looks like I`ll have to go the LOG show then! I really doubt the staff are gonna let me backstage unless LOG themselves let me. ARghHH! Just watching the FBM from a distance is gonna be a heartburn! I want to make my guitar bleed to its sound!



You are welcome anytime dude. There's fun shit to do in seoul and some decent cheap shopping to be had for gear.


----------



## Iamasingularity

signalgrey said:


> You are welcome anytime dude. There's fun shit to do in seoul and some decent cheap shopping to be had for gear.



Sick mate! My korean friend`s say that Korea is very similar to Japan. Have you ever been to Japan? So what kind of stuff are you into? (music wise of course)


----------



## noizfx

Iamasingularity said:


> Haha, I thought so. It really would be something to meet the peeps from Chthonic and meet you too (and try out the FMB  ) Looks like I`ll have to go the LOG show then! I really doubt the staff are gonna let me backstage unless LOG themselves let me. ARghHH! Just watching the FBM from a distance is gonna be a heartburn! I want to make my guitar bleed to its sound!



Hahaha generally speaking no you can't go backstage just like that... but I can get the backstage pass for myself coz I'm good friends with Jesse and I could be his guitar tech. I'll see how things go though, because I do have a day job so it's not that simple! Regardless it'll be awesome just to go watch the concert!


----------



## wlfers

I hope these turn out as well as they're claiming. Sent them an email over a week ago w/out any response- just hope that's because they're working so hard


----------



## Alcoholocaust

athawulf said:


> I hope these turn out as well as they're claiming. Sent them an email over a week ago w/out any response- just hope that's because they're working so hard



That's what i'm hoping!


----------



## noizfx

athawulf said:


> I hope these turn out as well as they're claiming. Sent them an email over a week ago w/out any response- just hope that's because they're working so hard



They are indeed hard at work! Mike has been working over the thanksgiving holidays too! Send the email to me at [email protected] instead and cc mike in at [email protected], I'll try to get a response asap!


----------



## Iamasingularity

athawulf said:


> I hope these turn out as well as they're claiming. Sent them an email over a week ago w/out any response- just hope that's because they're working so hard



I`m pretty sure making a amp that utilizes nuclear proof fighter jet tubes is far from easy. I`m sure they get alot of email, most of them from people interested in the product but have no actual plans for buying them. Besides they`re not mass produced, its gonna take time foe things to roll out just fine. They can`t really make a living discussing the product on email, and not selling them.


----------



## Iamasingularity

sensoryamusia said:


> That's what i'm hoping!



Holy Crap! Its Sensoryamusia!!!!!


----------



## wlfers

Iamasingularity said:


> I`m pretty sure making a amp that utilizes nuclear proof fighter jet tubes is far from easy. I`m sure they get alot of email, most of them from people interested in the product but have no actual plans for buying them. Besides they`re not mass produced, its gonna take time foe things to roll out just fine. They can`t really make a living discussing the product on email, and not selling them.



I didn't order the head- and I'm well aware about development times. I have sent in my deposit, so I'm not getting the relevance of your other comments. If you've read what I've been saying, my complaints aren't about the time it's taking to develop and produce, it's the time it takes to get any response and update.



noizfx said:


> They are indeed hard at work! Mike has been working over the thanksgiving holidays too! Send the email to me at [email protected] instead and cc mike in at [email protected], I'll try to get a response asap!



Thanks man good to hear!


----------



## Iamasingularity

athawulf said:


> I didn't order the head- and I'm well aware about development times. I have sent in my deposit, so I'm not getting the relevance of your other comments. If you've read what I've been saying, my complaints aren't about the time it's taking to develop and produce, it's the time it takes to get any response and update.



Pardon my quick judgement and ignorance. Just saying they must be busy with ther work and all. May I know what you ordered?


----------



## Xifter

I know there should be 1 lonely FBM-100 as I found out I was having to add a new member to my family  So, the one originally slated for me is up for grabs and should be done by now. Hit up mike if you don't want to wait for the next FBM-100 run. Also, PM me if you end up getting it to let me know what happy home it will recieve!


----------



## wlfers

Iamasingularity said:


> Pardon my quick judgement and ignorance. Just saying they must be busy with ther work and all. May I know what you ordered?



No problem, I ordered the preamp pedal- and thanks to noizfx I received my answer about the midi functionality .


----------



## Iamasingularity

athawulf said:


> No problem, I ordered the preamp pedal- and thanks to noizfx I received my answer about the midi functionality .


----------



## noizfx

athawulf said:


> No problem, I ordered the preamp pedal- and thanks to noizfx I received my answer about the midi functionality .



You're welcome dude!

Some people are gonna get their FBM-100H real soon!


----------



## Alcoholocaust

DAR Amps said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> So here's the update.... We will be shipping ALL paid for FBM100 Heads within 30days. Everything is near finished up and they are truly outstanding amps.
> 
> I will be in Sweden during December to do the final voicings on the pedal. My flight is booked for Nov 30th, but may move according to the time frame of the guys in Sweden.
> 
> As a additional note, We have Hired Jeff Hilligan (the former production manager/partner from Egnater Amps to DAR) Under his oversight they were able to take the US made production products from a 9 month leadtime to 2 weeks. I understand the frustration you guys have and actively made the requisite changes to address this.
> 
> I assure you the gear is worth the wait. But for those who cannot, just drop me an email... [email protected] and we will find a resolution for ya. Or just give me a call 650 814-1712
> 
> The technology is awesome stuff and the gear is outstanding. It is also the most advanced pedal (with 3 DSP's/ tube preamp/ etc) possibly ever conceived.
> 
> As an engineer, I have been 100% focused on the technology and delivering to you guys the best possible tone imaginable. DAR will make greater effort to address the other concerns you guys have voiced. Please, we are always welcome to your input as well.... just give us a call! Ask for Mike...
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


 

would really like an update on this


----------



## LoyK

Status updates would be welcome I guess!


----------



## wlfers

So I found out there's not only a facebook page for Dar, but also a group. From the group December 21st:



> About to ship the Heads.... lots of them... then the preamps [name of guy who asked]. My apologies for the delays, but i assure you that for the patient, the reward is pretty awesome. I'll do my best to keep up with the forums better too... (just been very busy with the gear)


----------



## Animus

Haven't they been "about to ship" amps for the past year?


----------



## wlfers

Yep, and the site has been 99% done for just as long.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Anybody get their Head shipped yet??? I hope they still remember I ordered preamp pedal way way way back. I don't even know what the deal is or when I am supposed to pay them the rest? or if they are done? Pics? Sent an email to Mike just now.


----------



## signalgrey

Krucifixtion said:


> Anybody get their Head shipped yet??? I hope they still remember I ordered preamp pedal way way way back. I don't even know what the deal is or when I am supposed to pay them the rest? or if they are done? Pics? Sent an email to Mike just now.



ive been in touch with Mike recently. He claimed they would be ready to ship in a week and they are putting all the paperwork in order before shipping so there is no mix ups etc...

I would image since there is such a small team and so many orders that have varying deposits on them and they are buyers from all over the world. Im still confident about things. Ive been waiting for over a year actually. I put in an order before the amp was even shown off at NAMM (not to brag). Anyway. Heres hoping they will ship soon and we will all be happy.


----------



## wlfers

They have the head release party set for this weekend, so I cant imagine there would be much of a wait after the official release! At least for the heads, can't say about some of us lowly preamp preorders


----------



## signalgrey

Im sending the rest of my deposit next week when I get paid. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Im really hoping we get some pics of a finished product(s) from the release party and not the same proto in all the photos!


----------



## wlfers

From their facebook group









> * Here's a room with some of our Chassis from a while back.. I'll post pretty pix tomorrow or this weekend of some of the complete heads, But right now the 'Gut's' are exposed and not buttoned up well enough for public.*


----------



## Alcoholocaust

that pic makes my pants tight.


----------



## wlfers

They've posted a few minor updates, the ones of value are pictures of their production (not prototype) FBM100s and



> FBM100's just started to ship. The pedals will be released right after this amp run.





^ According to mike, this is actually labelled incorrectly as a prototype and is their production line about to ship.


----------



## themike

DL (formerly of The Acacia Strain) seems to have gotten the first production model of something tasty....


----------



## wlfers

Just saw this! Now to gather the funds I spent on an 8 which was originally intended for the PX.


----------



## Scattered Messiah

This is slowly getting interesting ... I hope the guys at DAR will now make it to the PX in forseeable future, so I can order one (as Mike told me, he would only accept new preorders after the amps have shipped and they moved to the preamps).

It looks damn nice!


----------



## wlfers

Yeah, word has been that after the pre-ordered 100s that they would move straight to the orders on the PX. But thankfully they're still working on it as the 100s are being taken care of, here is mike's response to a guy asking about the size footprint.



> Still An A4 page. We did make LOTS of small changes from the original design you may have seen a little footage on. We have more of the necessary controls on the top versus backside... etc.. It has been a BIG project!


----------



## Krucifixtion

I'm pretty torn on staying with my order for the FBM-PX. Contacted them about canceling it and now they start shipping heads. Part of me wants to stick it out, cause I still really want this, but the other part of me says I waited a year already and never seem to get any concrete answers on it. For all I know the FBM-PX might not be ready or ship till Spring/Summer? Ugggghhhhhhh...I could always order one again, but who knows what the wait time will be.


----------



## wlfers

Yeah, I'm trusting that the technology will pay off for the blind waiting. Hmm though Diezel just started designs on a rack preamp...


----------



## guy in latvia

^i know waiting sucks, im tearing my hair out waiting on my ViK custom, Im even considering ordering a 2nd custom just to keep my juices flowing, but then again, isnt the FBM-PX like $800? That's not that much money to worry about, just soldier on


----------



## noizfx

guy in latvia said:


> ^i know waiting sucks, im tearing my hair out waiting on my ViK custom, Im even considering ordering a 2nd custom just to keep my juices flowing, but then again, isnt the FBM-PX like $800? That's not that much money to worry about, just soldier on



USD 890 to be exact!


----------



## guy in latvia

^thanks!

Do you pay the full price or just a portion of it as you reserve a spot?


----------



## noizfx

guy in latvia said:


> ^thanks!
> 
> Do you pay the full price or just a portion of it as you reserve a spot?



I just paid the deposit which was like USD 300? And I'm on the first run!


----------



## guy in latvia

thats really not so bad to be worried about, just gotta wait it out i suppose. i think DAR either underestimated the demand they will get for the FBM series or overestimated their production capabilities.


----------



## noizfx

guy in latvia said:


> thats really not so bad to be worried about, just gotta wait it out i suppose. i think DAR either underestimated the demand they will get for the FBM series or overestimated their production capabilities.



Yea and um... after that I started working for DAR too... *ahem*


----------



## signalgrey

I felt I should post that I cancelled my order on the FBM-100. I've waited so long, that the amp has started costing me money for various reasons. It was supposed to be the center point of my recording sessions for my first solo album. Without getting into details and sounding like a smear job, things didnt work out the way they could/should/I wish they had.

I am an understanding guy and I realize Mike has been dealing with a huge workload. I appreciate his situation and I think he has going to have an amazing product, It just so happens that time has simply taken its toll on my arrangement with him. It has now become an issue I am unable to ignore regardless of the promise of shipping soon. Its actually been costing me money just to wait, and Ive been waiting quite patiently for quite a while. Before continuing, let me address the tone of this, I am NOT angry or pissed off, I am disappointed things took this long only to fall apart at the end.

To everyone who is waiting. If you are willing to continue to be patient and allow Mike to work everything out, I think you will all be pleasantly rewarded with an awesome amp.

For my situation, I hope he finds the time to respond to my emails and refunds my deposit, or at least gives me a timeline as to when I can expect to be reimbursed.

I hope this is not at all interpreted as anything overtly negative towards the FBM-100 and Mike, this is just how things seemed to play out for me. I felt that I should share my experiences in this situation for those who may be curious or in the same boat.

Specific questions about my specific situation should probably be asked via PM (depending on what is being asked), but anything else I am happy to address here.


----------



## guy in latvia

^shame things didnt work out, but I understand that some people cannot afford to wait forever!



noizfx said:


> Yea and um... after that I started working for DAR too... *ahem*



I have no idea what you meant by this...


----------



## Alcoholocaust

signalgrey said:


> I felt I should post that I cancelled my order on the FBM-100. I've waited so long, that the amp has started costing me money for various reasons. It was supposed to be the center point of my recording sessions for my first solo album. Without getting into details and sounding like a smear job, things didnt work out the way they could/should/I wish they had.
> 
> I am an understanding guy and I realize Mike has been dealing with a huge workload. I appreciate his situation and I think he has going to have an amazing product, It just so happens that time has simply taken its toll on my arrangement with him. It has now become an issue I am unable to ignore regardless of the promise of shipping soon. Its actually been costing me money just to wait, and Ive been waiting quite patiently for quite a while. Before continuing, let me address the tone of this, I am NOT angry or pissed off, I am disappointed things took this long only to fall apart at the end.
> 
> To everyone who is waiting. If you are willing to continue to be patient and allow Mike to work everything out, I think you will all be pleasantly rewarded with an awesome amp.
> 
> For my situation, I hope he finds the time to respond to my emails and refunds my deposit, or at least gives me a timeline as to when I can expect to be reimbursed.
> 
> I hope this is not at all interpreted as anything overtly negative towards the FBM-100 and Mike, this is just how things seemed to play out for me. I felt that I should share my experiences in this situation for those who may be curious or in the same boat.
> 
> Specific questions about my specific situation should probably be asked via PM (depending on what is being asked), but anything else I am happy to address here.



Sorry to hear that man, i know you were the first to order an FBM-100H.
I've been in the same boat as you ( ~may '11) but it's looking like they'll be done soon (i hope!)
Out of curiosity what rig are you going with now?


----------



## wlfers

signalgrey said:


> I felt I should post that I cancelled my order on the FBM-100. I've waited so long, that the amp has started costing me money for various reasons.



Man.. what a bummer dude. Your excitement in the head was one of the catalysts for myself putting a pre-order down on the -px. I can think of a few negative things to say about the situation, even though I've only waited half as long as you have. Hope things work out for you.


----------



## signalgrey

athawulf said:


> Man.. what a bummer dude. Your excitement in the head was one of the catalysts for myself putting a pre-order down on the -px. I can think of a few negative things to say about the situation, even though I've only waited half as long as you have. Hope things work out for you.



I appreciate that. It really was something I have been looking forward to this whole time. Basically I was putting off recording an EP so I could make the amp the center of everything im doing. It was delayed, so I decided I would take this extra time to write and pre-record enough material for a full length. Now I have enough music for almost 2 full lengths, not a bad byproduct but still.... Studio time was cancelled twice and I had to pay for the lost time. I not a signed act so I cant afford to have everything I want and afford studio time and all that stuff that comes with it. Unfortunately I had to choose between some awesome gear and whether or not I get to record.

I hope that maybe in the future I can work with Mike again when things are smoother and more predictable.



sensoryamusia said:


> Sorry to hear that man, i know you were the first to order an FBM-100H.
> I've been in the same boat as you ( ~may '11) but it's looking like they'll be done soon (i hope!)
> Out of curiosity what rig are you going with now?



For now I've been talking with both Blackstar and Orange again about a small recording endorsement. I dont know what I have access to but both companies arent really my first or even third choices. As for a permanent rig, Ill be assembling that later this year. Perhaps if the FBM is still an option I will go with that but my more rational choices are to look into a SIG:X and Brunetti 059. Thats all I got on my list so far. Ive had my mind set on the DAR for so long its actually hard to think about getting something else to replace a sound that doesnt really exist yet. First world problems right?


----------



## Krucifixtion

So, I understand this is a small company and they are supposedly working hard, but at the start of February I sent them an email asking if I could get my deposit back on the FBM-PX. The guy I contacted from DAR said he would have to ask Mike about refunding my money. I sent them another email about a week later asking what the status was on this and I haven't heard back at all and it's been like almost 2 weeks since I got the first email back from them. I'm not trying to bash these guys, cause I know they want to make a quality product and all, but the lack of customer service for people who have actually given these dudes money is pretty crazy. I can understand they probably get like thousands of emails from people wanting to know all the info, but you should be at least able to get back to your customers in a timely fashion. I know they probably don't want people backing out of their orders, but it's not like they don't have enough interest to get other people to replace my order. 

Point is I simply can't wait for a product anymore that has no time frame at all of when it's coming out. Supposedly all the FBM heads were to be shipped out like over a month ago. So far one dude I've seen online from some band that I don't really know of has gotten one, but what about all these other people that have been waiting? Where are their heads? It's also pretty silly that like a year later and DAR still doesn't even have a website up. 

At this point I have decided to get an Axe-FX II. I put myself on the wait list and it should probably only take a few months or so to get the discount. So, when my time comes up if I can afford it I'm going that route.


----------



## technomancer

Most places a deposit for an unreleased product or custom work is non-refundable  It's to keep guys from ordering things then getting impatient and backing out after the company has invested money into ordering parts for a unit in an initial product run. While I'm not saying that's how DAR is doing it, it wouldn't surprise me if that turns out to be the case.


----------



## DAR Amps

Hey Guys,

Mike here at DAR. Geez... I really need to get off the bench and follow up with the forums more lately. I see this getting hairy. 

First, if anyone has any questions about anything, please feel free to contact me at [email protected]

We are 100% on the pedal. It is a matter of having the 100H amps shipping solidly first before my attention can be fully invested on pedals as they deserve. The pedal is essentially the amp without the power amp and inclusion of the IR engine instead. It's production and design is based on the 100H amp and needs to be done in succession or it will be impractical for us to build out properly. 

Again, anyone ans all are free to hit me at [email protected] and I will make the time to follow up with everyone. 

Thx Guys!
Mike


----------



## TMM

DAR Amps said:


> Again, anyone ans all are free to hit me at [email protected] and I will make the time to follow up with everyone.
> 
> Thx Guys!
> Mike



Um... yeah, been trying that since early December, somewhere between 4-6 emails, and I still haven't heard back. Maybe you could just PM to reply?


----------



## Krucifixtion

Got an email back from Mike, so no worries. Just hoping to get something for recording now, which is why it would be nice to get my deposit back. I know a lot of people would want to jump on the first run pre-order. No hard feelings. Not trying to bash DAR here. Just wanted to get some response back is all. Still interested in the FBM line, but gonna have to wait and see.


----------



## electricred

There was no problems with communication when Paul was with the company. I already backed out of my order because of the wait. I'll wait to see if these amplifiers really exist before considering sending more money. I'm targeting the HX head anyway.


----------



## Animus

technomancer said:


> Most places a deposit for an unreleased product or custom work is non-refundable  It's to keep guys from ordering things then getting impatient and backing out after the company has invested money into ordering parts for a unit in an initial product run. While I'm not saying that's how DAR is doing it, it wouldn't surprise me if that turns out to be the case.



BUt then again the original promised release dates were not met and delayed repeatedly after that so refunds should be on the table if they didn't hold up to their side of the deal. If they originally said it would be a year plus until they are released then yes I would think the deposit would be non-refundable.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Animus said:


> BUt then again the original promised release dates were not met and delayed repeatedly after that so refunds should be on the table if they didn't hold up to their side of the deal. If they originally said it would be a year plus until they are released then yes I would think the deposit would be non-refundable.



That's not really how "non-refundable deposits" work. Maybe in a perfect world.


----------



## HighGain510

Animus said:


> BUt then again the original promised release dates were not met and delayed repeatedly after that so refunds should be on the table if they didn't hold up to their side of the deal. If they originally said it would be a year plus until they are released then yes I would think the deposit would be non-refundable.



Poor management, setbacks in the prototyping stage, issues with parts suppliers etc. all happen quite frequently with the release of new products. If you believe otherwise, you're misinformed, and it applies to both physical and digital items.  When they asked for deposits it was to secure the very first units and without knowing the inner workings of DAR but knowing that they are a relatively new/small company, I would think it's safe to assume they were using said deposit money in the start-up costs of the development of the new product. 

Most folks should have figured that their money was going into getting the new product they all wanted off the ground, once that money is spent by the company emailing them repeatedly likely won't get your money back, they'll probably tell you to sit and wait for the product that you agreed to purchase.  Not saying it's right, but that is often how paid pre-orders work especially if it's a completely new product, they probably don't want their first dozen orders cancelling them and owing back that money when they've already sunk it into getting production of the units going.  If they didn't need the money to fund the product, they wouldn't have even had to take money for pre-orders.... that also should have been telling about their company's financial situation IMO, if they had enough cash in their reserves they wouldn't have had to ask for paid deposits for a pre-order list.


----------



## TemjinStrife

This makes me wish I had been able to snag a Tuzzia before this whole thing blew up. 

Also, what part of "non-refundable" do people not understand?


----------



## cyb

since when was it non refundable? I was able to get my deposit back.


----------



## Animus

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not really how "non-refundable deposits" work. Maybe in a perfect world.



Yeah, I totally get that which is why I never preorder anything. I only buy real products, especially not ones "in development".


----------



## signalgrey

im going to repost this from before. It was november last year from Mike a few pages back:

"Hey Guys,

So here's the update.... We will be shipping ALL paid for FBM100 Heads within 30days. Everything is near finished up and they are truly outstanding amps.

I will be in Sweden during December to do the final voicings on the pedal. My flight is booked for Nov 30th, but may move according to the time frame of the guys in Sweden. 

As a additional note, We have Hired Jeff Hilligan (the former production manager/partner from Egnater Amps to DAR) Under his oversight they were able to take the US made production products from a 9 month leadtime to 2 weeks. I understand the frustration you guys have and actively made the requisite changes to address this. 

*I assure you the gear is worth the wait. But for those who cannot, just drop me an email... [email protected] and we will find a resolution for ya. Or just give me a call 650 814-1712*

The technology is awesome stuff and the gear is outstanding. It is also the most advanced pedal (with 3 DSP's/ tube preamp/ etc) possibly ever conceived. 

As an engineer, I have been 100% focused on the technology and delivering to you guys the best possible tone imaginable. DAR will make greater effort to address the other concerns you guys have voiced. Please, we are always welcome to your input as well.... just give us a call! Ask for Mike...

Thanks,
Mike"

well im still waiting for a resolution.


----------



## signalgrey

Had a few emails with Mike a day or two ago. We did reach a resolution that was both amicable and satisfactory. While I think things overall could have gone better, Im glad they were resolved. I really would like to do business with Mike in the future, and this has helped solidified that for me.

Mike, good luck shipping and keeping everyone happy during this first run, I look forward to working with again.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I might save up and get one of these DAR products now...


----------



## Holle

Glad to hear you got this sorted out to your satisfaction, signalgrey.

I have the preamp pedal on preorder - second run though, so I guess it'll take quite a while more until it arrives. Luckily I'm not in a hurry, just hope it arrives until guitartracking for my band's second album starts. The main reason I ordered it is to get an IR loader hardware with minimal lag so I can use it for monitoring. And the second reason is the hope that it sounds as awesome as it is made out to be!


----------



## Krucifixtion

Mike said he would gladly refund me, but I'm still waiting. Haven't gotten any money back yet.


----------



## signalgrey

Krucifixtion said:


> Mike said he would gladly refund me, but I'm still waiting. Haven't gotten any money back yet.





Holle said:


> Glad to hear you got this sorted out to your satisfaction, signalgrey.
> 
> I have the preamp pedal on preorder - second run though, so I guess it'll take quite a while more until it arrives. Luckily I'm not in a hurry, just hope it arrives until guitartracking for my band's second album starts. The main reason I ordered it is to get an IR loader hardware with minimal lag so I can use it for monitoring. And the second reason is the hope that it sounds as awesome as it is made out to be!



I still havent gotten the promised refund. He has my account information, the amp has been sold (and posted up here by the new owner). This has put a huge stop in basically everything im trying to do right now. So im starting to lose my calm demeanor about this. I really hope things change soon.


----------



## meambobbo

any valid contract requires a meeting of the minds. a pre-order or deposit should carry an implicit reasonable timeline in line with similar items, unless one is made explicit. from what i've read there was no explicit timeline, but there were indications from DAR when their product would ship. given they've missed both reasonable timelines for similar products AND their own indications of when the product would be available, i would argue any pre-order contracts were null and void and they need to refund the deposits.

it makes no sense to think someone could submit a pre-order deposit and the company never provide them with anything and not have to legally refund the deposit. the contract was that the buyer is purchasing a good and expects it to be available at some point in the future. if that time comes and there is no product available, there is no longer any contract.

"non-refundable" simply means you don't have the option to back out of the contract within the expected timeline. It's like buying something without a return policy. You can't get your money back PROVIDED THE SELLER ACTUALLY PROVIDES YOU WITH THE MERCHANDISE. If you give a clerk $5 for a pack of smokes, and he says he will give them to you but at some indefinite point in the future, there's clearly something wrong with that. all contracts and transactions have implicit understandings, one of which is when property is exchanged. it can never be indefinitely into the future, because that makes no sense.

agreeing to refund a deposit and then not doing so is quite simply fraud. they should do so within 30 days of the agreement.

whatever production issues DAR is having, they might be adding legal issues on top of that. if there weren't working prototypes and endorsements by big-name bands, i would have thought the entire operation was a sham. still might be...


----------



## Mazzy

Just keep emailing and calling Mike. He's a very busy guy, and there are dozens of people wanting refunds right now, so he's probably losing track of everybody.


----------



## Krucifixtion

meambobbo said:


> any valid contract requires a meeting of the minds. a pre-order or deposit should carry an implicit reasonable timeline in line with similar items, unless one is made explicit. from what i've read there was no explicit timeline, but there were indications from DAR when their product would ship. given they've missed both reasonable timelines for similar products AND their own indications of when the product would be available, i would argue any pre-order contracts were null and void and they need to refund the deposits.
> 
> it makes no sense to think someone could submit a pre-order deposit and the company never provide them with anything and not have to legally refund the deposit. the contract was that the buyer is purchasing a good and expects it to be available at some point in the future. if that time comes and there is no product available, there is no longer any contract.
> 
> "non-refundable" simply means you don't have the option to back out of the contract within the expected timeline. It's like buying something without a return policy. You can't get your money back PROVIDED THE SELLER ACTUALLY PROVIDES YOU WITH THE MERCHANDISE. If you give a clerk $5 for a pack of smokes, and he says he will give them to you but at some indefinite point in the future, there's clearly something wrong with that. all contracts and transactions have implicit understandings, one of which is when property is exchanged. it can never be indefinitely into the future, because that makes no sense.
> 
> agreeing to refund a deposit and then not doing so is quite simply fraud. they should do so within 30 days of the agreement.
> 
> whatever production issues DAR is having, they might be adding legal issues on top of that. if there weren't working prototypes and endorsements by big-name bands, i would have thought the entire operation was a sham. still might be...




Yes...the point is that when I gave them my money for pre-order there was a general timeline of when all this stuff would be done by, but now if you ask them when the preamp pedals will be done they will just tell you "we have no definite date yet". I was told almost 2 months ago that a refund would be no problem. I already sent countless emails to multiple people with my info and original invoice, so there is no confusion. I shouldn't have to start calling them on the phone and harassing them, but I guess that's what it's gonna come down to. I had a similar sort of experience years ago when ordering an amp case from a company. They kept giving me the run around saying it was done and it would ship soon and then they told me it did ship...blah blah blah. Kept emailing them, but I finally called the guy and talked to him personally and it seems like that lights a fire under certain people's asses. I'm not gonna wait another whole year by the time these things are actually done if they ever are. I already waited a whole year and I want something now.


----------



## warhead78

I'd settle for an honest update every now and then. Its the absolute lack of any consideration concerning people like myself who sent deposits in good faith that gets to me. I can wait, but throw me a damn bone every once in a while. This is where so many small companies get it wrong - COMMUNICATION

-rant over


----------



## Mazzy

I was told this summer for the pedals. They are concentrating on the 100H heads at the moment.


----------



## wlfers

This summer? Mike posted on the DAR facebook group that all first run heads would be shipping within 30 days of March 19th.

It was my understanding from personal conversation with him that the first pedal run would follow the first 100 run after a little more research and development.

I'm curious if it was the DAR guys who gave you the summer date, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case.


----------



## Mazzy

It was Mike himself, via email, only about a week back. I'm on preorder for the pedal and the expanded amplifier, and will probably be adding a cabinet.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mazzy said:


> he's probably losing track of everybody.



It's a sad state of affairs when this can even be considered a reasonable excuse. 

I have to keep in contact with at least 50 folks a week, over six departments, and help manage up to two dozen staff members and coworkers. This ain't difficult and shouldn't be for an entire company. 

Not speaking specifically to what's happening here, I've just noticed that excuse come up far too often lately when a builder can't keep their e-mail straight.


----------



## Mazzy

Yeah, he could be running things a bit more smoothly, but if you're needing a refund, call him instead of sending multiple emails and waiting. I had them refund something I preordered too, and it took a single conversation. Some people aren't great at handling things through email. Sure, you might, and Mike probably should work on that, but if you want to get things done, talking to someone directly is ALWAYS the best route. Mike is a breeze to deal with. Handling constant company shifts, hundreds of customers, and engineering/building multiple products in the FBM line simultaneously can't be a simple task. I deal with less than that as a industrial engineering tech and get lost amidst emails, jobs, contacts, etc. It's not an excuse, but a reasonable explanation.


----------



## signalgrey

Mazzy said:


> Yeah, he could be running things a bit more smoothly, but if you're needing a refund, call him instead of sending multiple emails and waiting. I had them refund something I preordered too, and it took a single conversation. Some people aren't great at handling things through email. Sure, you might, and Mike probably should work on that, but if you want to get things done, talking to someone directly is ALWAYS the best route. Mike is a breeze to deal with. Handling constant company shifts, hundreds of customers, and engineering/building multiple products in the FBM line simultaneously can't be a simple task. I deal with less than that as a industrial engineering tech and get lost amidst emails, jobs, contacts, etc. It's not an excuse, but a reasonable explanation.



yes well sadly I live in Korea and making contact internationally via phone calls can be...troublesome. Mike does seem to be a nice guy, i dont have a bad thing to say about his personality or him as a human being. I still believe that all this is just part of a painful birthing process. I still want to work with him in the future, but just not right now. Now I need a refund so I can keep things going for me.


----------



## HighGain510

signalgrey said:


> yes well sadly I live in Korea and making contact internationally via phone calls can be...troublesome. Mike does seem to be a nice guy, i dont have a bad thing to say about his personality or him as a human being. I still believe that all this is just part of a painful birthing process. I still want to work with him in the future, but just not right now. Now I need a refund so I can keep things going for me.



I still don't understand this situation... other folks have called him and gotten their money refunded. You've been posting and posting about how much of a hardship this has been and how badly you need your money back, but working out a time to call him is that much trouble for you to handle?  C'mon man, you've said the same thing over and over about how bad you need your cash back and how he's not responding to your emails, people have told you what YOU need to do to get it back so at this point your next post in this thread should hopefully be "I called Mike and got my refund." and not "ZOMG I can't understand why everyone else keeps getting their money back and I'm being ignored?!" 

While it might be more of a pain for you, there is a single, very simple, fix for your problem. Why not handle your business offline instead of posting that you're not getting results still from a method that clearly wasn't working for anyone else either? 

Also for the whole "living in Korea" being your excuse, my brother was in Korea for over a year and I had absolutely zero issue getting in touch with him over the phone or via skype and he was active duty military on top of that so he only had certain hours available. It's a pretty lame excuse to blame it on being in a different time zone/country, figure out the time difference and make the call. If it means staying up late or waking up early to make the call when Mike or whomever at DAR you're dealing with will be in their office, I would think that minor inconvenience would be preferable to not having your money. 

Not trying to be rude, but half of the posts in the last few pages have just been bumps from you complaining about how you can't seem to get your money back and all the hardship it is causing you, yet it's been made clear others who actually TALKED to the guys at DAR have been able to get theirs back somehow. Take personal responsibility for your issue and handle it, no one else on the forum can do it for you so continually repeating that after just emailing them that you aren't getting money back isn't helping anything.  If you truly value getting your money back, it sounds like you're going to have to actually pick up the phone and get it from them while you have them on the line, as inconvenient as that may be.

I have no connection to DAR and I think that ignoring you and others on the refund is shitty, and they fucked up big time on this whole FBM lineup between delays and miscommunication, but repeat postings on here won't fix any of that.


----------



## Larrikin666

Saw this conversation about the preamps on Rig-Talk. Original post was asking Mike when the pedals would start to ship.



cold machine said:


> mikegiovannotto said:
> 
> 
> 
> After We have the current batch of 100-H's out.
> Got questions, call us 650 814-1712
> 
> /Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...I called him and he answered. Mike is very, very cool, (as those that have spoken to him have stated often), and we spent about 45 minutes discussing the 100-H's and the PX,(which does even more cool s**t than advertised. There are 80 or so heads in line in front of the FBM-PX and then 30/40 hours of engineeringin order to nail the design down so that it will stay below the $900.00 thresh-hold and still be quality gear. Sounds very much as thought it will be worth the wait. Hope I didn't put anybody's amp behind schedule.
> Thank you Mike for your time.
Click to expand...


Sounds like anyone on the preorder list for the PX should expect a LONG wait. 80 heads seems like a lot consider how few we've seen showing up on different forums.


----------



## warhead78

Wow, and here I was thinking the FBM-PX was an engineered/designed product when I paid a deposit, silly me...


----------



## Ben.Last

warhead78 said:


> Wow, and here I was thinking the FBM-PX was an engineered/designed product when I paid a deposit, silly me...



I just need to chine in here and ask what gave you that impression? I have my own opinions about how long things are taking them and their communication with customers, but they made it very clear that they did not have a completed design ready to go.


----------



## warhead78

Lern2swim said:


> I just need to chine in here and ask what gave you that impression? I have my own opinions about how long things are taking them and their communication with customers, but they made it very clear that they did not have a completed design ready to go.



I put down my deposit within days of the product announcement. At that time there were pics of the chassis and a description of the features. At no time were there excuses or concerns expressed about being able to "pull off" the technology. The impression I got was that they were much further along in the process. I still want the product and have proven my ability to wait. I just feel a bit misled by the whole process.


----------



## wlfers

Larrikin666 said:


> Saw this conversation about the preamps on Rig-Talk. Original post was asking Mike when the pedals would start to ship.
> 
> Sounds like anyone on the preorder list for the PX should expect a LONG wait. 80 heads seems like a lot consider how few we've seen showing up on different forums.



Mike also said this on March 19th on the facebook group.



> Hey Folks,
> *
> Just wanted to give you guys a positive heads up that ALL the First Run FBM-100H's should be ready and shipping within the next 30 Days. We have shipped the first few, as you know, and other than one error all went well with them.
> 
> Therefore we have a few of the remaining boards being CNC stuffed (to free my time) with he final components and myself inserting/testing in the otherwise fully completed amps.
> 
> Thanks for the patience guys! The amps sound SWEET!
> 
> Mike*





I guess after the 30 days there are still 80 heads of the first run left.


----------



## Ben.Last

warhead78 said:


> I put down my deposit within days of the product announcement. At that time there were pics of the chassis and a description of the features. At no time were there excuses or concerns expressed about being able to "pull off" the technology. The impression I got was that they were much further along in the process. I still want the product and have proven my ability to wait. I just feel a bit misled by the whole process.



I don't know why you put quotation marks around "pull off," that phrase wasn't anywhere in the original statement. 30/40 hours of engineering time is hardly long enough to be viewed as them still trying to figure out if they can even do what they said. That's not what I read in the statement at all. And, honestly, the chassis being done to the point of being photographable isn't anywhere near a completed product. That's the easy part. And they knew the features because it has the same features as the head. Again, I totally get the frustration, because they're obviously not communicating effectively. However, you were not, in my opinion, misled in the respect that you are saying you were.


----------



## warhead78

I put "pull off" in quotes because it's the exact same phrase used by Dar in a previous statement. And I'm fine with 30-40 hrs of development, I'm not fine with the 400 poorly informed days or so I've had to wait for them to find a week's worth of this development time. Again, I'm just frustrated at this point and shouldn't have to substantiate my concerns to anyone.


----------



## Larrikin666

It's one thing to design a chassis before engineering your electronics, but it's completely different to put the chassis into production. I'd just be worried that something critical is discovered during the finalization of the electronic components that requires dimension or layout adjustments. If that happens, the chassis design you already started producing is just scrap.


----------



## wlfers

They have said already that the original chassis has been altered to accommodate the technology and moving more of the important controls to the front/top. 

If anyone wants to feel better about the wait, hit up Mike and ask him about the new technology in the PX. Though its mostly the lack of communication that's pissing everyone off.


----------



## Larrikin666

athawulf said:


> They have said already that the original chassis has been altered to accommodate the technology and moving more of the important controls to the front/top.
> 
> If anyone wants to feel better about the wait, hit up Mike and ask him about the new technology in the PX. Though its mostly the lack of communication that's pissing everyone off.



I'm definitely not someone who is pissed off. I've worked for a company that manufactures electronics for almost 7 years now. I learned very quickly the types of things that push release dates back time and time again. I completely understand and empathize. Things happen. I also understand it's hard to take the time to get the info out there when you're a smaller company.


----------



## wlfers

Like I said, it's not the wait or the release being delayed. I'm excited especially after hearing from Mike the extra technology they're throwing in. Yet regardless of the delays, having a bunch of pre-order guys inquirying about updates be ignored while he posts updates of signature model guitars doesn't seem like a proper thing to do.


----------



## signalgrey

*An update on my situation.
*
I have been emailing Mike for weeks and nothing has changed. He has not responded to anything. He has all the info he needs to refund my money, yet nothing has been done despite his promise to do so. What has me more concerned is that I have been trying to call the number he provided us on the forum and no one answers and the mailbox is full.

The amp I had ordered was sold to another guy on here so he lost no money on a sale, I had been waiting for over a year patiently. I am loathe to talk shit about Mike since I dont know him personally but I am extremely upset and disappointed with how I have been treated thus far.

Since I live in Korea (but I am American) it is difficult for me to contact or even get his attention.

I dont know what else to do other than to maybe call the police. I just want my fucking refund. I have emails confirming a refund and the amicable parting of ways. I dont know why it had to come to this kinda of situation.

Mike. Please, for the hundredth time, please refund my money. I dont know what else to say.


----------



## Spaceboy

How about this fella?

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2714206-post297.html

Or, pay for some Skype credit or an international phone card? Yeah, it costs money, but a little cash to get hundreds or thousands refunded isn't too bad, and should definitely be done before talking to the authorities. Mike does answer the phone. There are too many variables that could interrupt email communication to be getting upset.


----------



## Krucifixtion

signalgrey said:


> *An update on my situation.
> *
> I have been emailing Mike for weeks and nothing has changed. He has not responded to anything. He has all the info he needs to refund my money, yet nothing has been done despite his promise to do so. What has me more concerned is that I have been trying to call the number he provided us on the forum and no one answers and the mailbox is full.
> 
> The amp I had ordered was sold to another guy on here so he lost no money on a sale, I had been waiting for over a year patiently. I am loathe to talk shit about Mike since I dont know him personally but I am extremely upset and disappointed with how I have been treated thus far.
> 
> Since I live in Korea (but I am American) it is difficult for me to contact or even get his attention.
> 
> I dont know what else to do other than to maybe call the police. I just want my fucking refund. I have emails confirming a refund and the amicable parting of ways. I dont know why it had to come to this kinda of situation.
> 
> Mike. Please, for the hundredth time, please refund my money. I dont know what else to say.



Sent you a PM....check your inbox.


----------



## signalgrey

Spaceboy said:


> How about this fella?
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2714206-post297.html
> 
> Or, pay for some Skype credit or an international phone card? Yeah, it costs money, but a little cash to get hundreds or thousands refunded isn't too bad, and should definitely be done before talking to the authorities. Mike does answer the phone. There are too many variables that could interrupt email communication to be getting upset.



I dont mean to sound rude but, its a bit beyond all this.

I know how to use skype, I have been calling. There is no rep for DAR in Korea, and yes it is time to get upset.

I realize you may be trying to help but, Ive been dealing with DAR since before the FBM was even announced.


----------



## signalgrey

HighGain510 said:


> I still don't understand this situation... other folks have called him and gotten their money refunded. You've been posting and posting about how much of a hardship this has been and how badly you need your money back, but working out a time to call him is that much trouble for you to handle?  C'mon man, you've said the same thing over and over about how bad you need your cash back and how he's not responding to your emails, people have told you what YOU need to do to get it back so at this point your next post in this thread should hopefully be "I called Mike and got my refund." and not "ZOMG I can't understand why everyone else keeps getting their money back and I'm being ignored?!"
> 
> While it might be more of a pain for you, there is a single, very simple, fix for your problem. Why not handle your business offline instead of posting that you're not getting results still from a method that clearly wasn't working for anyone else either?
> 
> Also for the whole "living in Korea" being your excuse, my brother was in Korea for over a year and I had absolutely zero issue getting in touch with him over the phone or via skype and he was active duty military on top of that so he only had certain hours available. It's a pretty lame excuse to blame it on being in a different time zone/country, figure out the time difference and make the call. If it means staying up late or waking up early to make the call when Mike or whomever at DAR you're dealing with will be in their office, I would think that minor inconvenience would be preferable to not having your money.
> 
> Not trying to be rude, but half of the posts in the last few pages have just been bumps from you complaining about how you can't seem to get your money back and all the hardship it is causing you, yet it's been made clear others who actually TALKED to the guys at DAR have been able to get theirs back somehow. Take personal responsibility for your issue and handle it, no one else on the forum can do it for you so continually repeating that after just emailing them that you aren't getting money back isn't helping anything.  If you truly value getting your money back, it sounds like you're going to have to actually pick up the phone and get it from them while you have them on the line, as inconvenient as that may be.
> 
> I have no connection to DAR and I think that ignoring you and others on the refund is shitty, and they fucked up big time on this whole FBM lineup between delays and miscommunication, but repeat postings on here won't fix any of that.



I have picked up the phone, and I have been emailing. I dont just come on here to bitch about it in the hopes that someone will "White Knight" things for me.

I merely updating my situation, which seems to be more and more atypical, and therefore worth writing about.

As for contact with the states, its not that its difficult its that its just part of the whole situation that is not ideal. Of course I can call using skype or whatever, and I have.


----------



## Larrikin666

Have you tried contacting Jeff instead of Mike? I've dealt with Jeff a lot on Rig-Talk. He's a great guy and usually very helpful. He's been helping out with the DAR stuff for a few months now, so he might be able to lend a hand. I don't remember his email address, but he's *Jeff Hilligan *on Rig-Talk.


----------



## sevenstringj

Are Meshuggah no longer using Axe FX?


----------



## HighGain510

signalgrey said:


> I have picked up the phone, and I have been emailing. I dont just come on here to bitch about it in the hopes that someone will "White Knight" things for me.
> 
> I merely updating my situation, which seems to be more and more atypical, and therefore worth writing about.
> 
> As for contact with the states, its not that its difficult its that its just part of the whole situation that is not ideal. Of course I can call using skype or whatever, and I have.



Replying to my post a month and a half later saying you've been trying to call them isn't the same, as the situation is not the same as it was when I posted that reply. At the time, you yourself stated you had not been calling because it was a pain. At THAT time, they were still answering calls. Not sure what to tell you now.


----------



## signalgrey

Larrikin666 said:


> Have you tried contacting Jeff instead of Mike? I've dealt with Jeff a lot on Rig-Talk. He's a great guy and usually very helpful. He's been helping out with the DAR stuff for a few months now, so he might be able to lend a hand. I don't remember his email address, but he's *Jeff Hilligan *on Rig-Talk.



I dont know Jeff actually, but something just started happening again with Mike. We'll see.


----------



## HighGain510

Cool man, hope you get some resolution. I do apologize if I'm coming off harsh, it's a shitty situation when ANY builder takes your cash and then doesn't respond, especially when it has been agreed that he would issue a refund.


----------



## signalgrey

HighGain510 said:


> Cool man, hope you get some resolution. I do apologize if I'm coming off harsh, it's a shitty situation when ANY builder takes your cash and then doesn't respond, especially when it has been agreed that he would issue a refund.



its cool dude, i see where you are coming from. I realized I sounded kinda helpless and whiny at times, which was not my intention at all. I appreciate your interest in this stuff too. It is a shitty situation for sure, I really just want it to be behind me. Happy B-day too!


----------



## incinerated_guitar

Gotta say, I feel bad for the guys at DAR. It seems like everyone is getting upset with them and theyre losing more and more money with their FBM's


----------



## MaxOfMetal

incinerated_guitar said:


> Gotta say, I feel bad for the guys at DAR. It seems like everyone is getting upset with them and theyre losing more and more money with their FBM's


 
It's hard to feel bad, considering that they pretty much brought this on themselves. They shouldn't have placed thier entire hand on an incomplete deck and made promises they weren't sure they could keep. 

Also, they made the classic mistake that smaller builders seem to be making, using pre-orders as start-up cash. It's sound in theory, but it rarely works in practice. 

All that said, while I see some disappointed folks, everyone seems to be going light on DAR, and DAR seems to be realizing they are losing tracktion and need to make good.


----------



## signalgrey

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's hard to feel bad, considering that they pretty much brought this on themselves. They shouldn't have placed thier entire hand on an incomplete deck and made promises they weren't sure they could keep.
> 
> Also, they made the classic mistake that smaller builders seem to be making, using pre-orders as start-up cash. It's sound in theory, but it rarely works in practice.
> 
> All that said, while I see some disappointed folks, everyone seems to be going light on DAR, and DAR seems to be realizing they are losing tracktion and need to make good.



you are dead on.

In all honesty i really hope they right their ship. I love the technology and the apporach to his amps. I think if they could turn it around in the very near future they have an extremely bright future.


----------



## incinerated_guitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's hard to feel bad, considering that they pretty much brought this on themselves. They shouldn't have placed thier entire hand on an incomplete deck and made promises they weren't sure they could keep.
> 
> Also, they made the classic mistake that smaller builders seem to be making, using pre-orders as start-up cash. It's sound in theory, but it rarely works in practice.
> 
> All that said, while I see some disappointed folks, everyone seems to be going light on DAR, and DAR seems to be realizing they are losing tracktion and need to make good.



True, in my opinion they did somewhat walk into a situation with a false hope that they could handle something that they clearly can't really handle too well. It seems this does happen a lot too


----------



## cyb

I really hope this all gets straightened out. I would still like to get a fbm preamp pedal someday...


----------



## sevenstringj

sevenstringj said:


> Are Meshuggah no longer using Axe FX?



*cough* *ahem* *cough*


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I've heard Fredrik will be using the DAR on his solo album.
Meshuggah are still using axe fx live for now.


----------



## clintsal

Any news? I'm not getting answers on the phone number from the website or from the listed email. Still no NGD's as far as I've seen, no updates on Facebook or the website... This is frustrating.


----------



## wlfers

Nope, no news. He has been updating facebook seldom when that one guy from acacia strain shares pictures of his FBM or guitars, but nothing yet about the status of the amps. From the handful of people I've talked to recently nobody has been getting any responses from calls or emails.


edit: on the 23rd he posted saying that he had just returned from working on a different project back to dar


----------



## Sepultorture

wow, DAR is really dropping the ball seriously this time round


----------



## 155

can you say bankrupt!


----------



## Alcoholocaust

They are not bankrupt


----------



## sevenstringj

I was just thinking, would this thread be over 20 pages long if Thordendal had nothing to do with them?


----------



## Wookieslayer

Just was crusing the facebook page and found this video from this link.

DAR Future Breed Machine FBM100 Teaser | San Jose Rock Shop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD94En2BizU


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I love how they call it a "teaser" video, even though the thing has been photographed, recorded, and demo'd from here to kingdom come. By "teaser" do they mean teasing all the guys who have been waiting patiently for their long overdue gear?


----------



## sevenstringj

Wookieslayer said:


> Just was crusing the facebook page and found this video from this link.
> 
> DAR Future Breed Machine FBM100 Teaser | San Jose Rock Shop




I'm sure most people waiting for their Thordendal DAR plan on playing thrash metal on a 6-string tuned to D.


----------



## Wookieslayer

yeah... :/


----------



## trig

sevenstringj said:


> I'm sure most people waiting for their Thordendal DAR plan on playing thrash metal on a 6-string tuned to D.



OT: That's a good point actually and can be said about a lot of demo/review videos on the web. 

Like a guy using a singlecoiled strat trying to demo some modern higain stuff with 70/80s riffs. I believe the audience has already moved past that 

Kudos to Ola and his videos for just this point alone - he aims to get a similar "metal" sound from different amps. Shows exactly how each amp is different..


----------



## TemjinStrife

sevenstringj said:


> I'm sure most people waiting for their Thordendal DAR plan on playing thrash metal on a 6-string tuned to D.



There's a lot more people playing that then trying to clone Meshuggah.


----------



## wlfers

So mike decided to graced the world with a response on the dar facebook group




> There's 20 FBM's right now close to delivery (and 50 more in the pipe) but as I had to get pulled off DAR for a few weeks on a urgent project, i am even more behind than ususal....


----------



## Larrikin666

So that means there are still 70 amps that need to be finished before they go back and finish designing the preamp pedal. Oh well. The wait continues.


----------



## Larrikin666

Brad said:


> DAR is not recommend by RT now, great amps and innovative but they have been unresponsive to clients who have orders. We will be locking this forum in a few weeks.
> 
> Brad



Snap!


----------



## Wookieslayer

oh shi..


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Well...


----------



## TemjinStrife

Proof that the Kickstarter approach to amp design doesn't really work if you can't back it up.


----------



## oniduder

Larrikin666 said:


> Snap!



this is strange i started that thread on rig-talk, i and others that chimed in don't not recommend mike or DAR, i feel it was a thread to get answers and post grievances to see where the company might be, hopefully it will work out for all, i know that may sound completely delusional but i feel that mike will come through, this business is weird, and mike is alone with a full-time job, i'm sure things could have been done differently to make it better now, but ce'st le vie

really i'm waiting longer for other things i've ordered from different peeps

so idk for what it's worth


----------



## themike

oniduder said:


> this is strange i started that thread on rig-talk, i and others that chimed in don't not recommend mike or DAR, i feel it was a thread to get answers and post grievances to see where the company might be, hopefully it will work out for all, i know that may sound completely delusional but i feel that mike will come through, this business is weird, and mike is alone with a full-time job, i'm sure things could have been done differently to make it better now, but ce'st le vie
> 
> really i'm waiting longer for other things i've ordered from different peeps
> 
> so idk for what it's worth


 
If you can post something on your FB about an artist and their band, you can just as easily post something along the lines of "Hello All - I apologise for the lack of communications - I have been out of the office for XXXX and am attempting to catch up the back log. Again sorry for the delay, we are HERE! "


----------



## oniduder

th3m1ke said:


> If you can post something on your FB about an artist and their band, you can just as easily post something along the lines of "Hello All - I apologise for the lack of communications - I have been out of the office for XXXX and am attempting to catch up the back log. Again sorry for the delay, we are HERE! "



i think he has put these types of messages on facebook, or so i've heard, at least in the group, and i think the implication in the fan page is "look at this shit" "we _are_ here" 

but really my point was about the thread on rig-talk not being a bash mike thread more of what is going on, anybody know anything more than me, 

and my other point although subtle was we can speculate as to what should have happened or what could have happened but this is case now, so whatever, it is what it is,


----------



## signalgrey

I got a response a little while ago, it wasnt exactly an email filled with answers. He was under the impression i have been going from forum to forum smearing him and his amps. Something I have NOT at all been doing. I have been sharing my experiences, and attempting at being impartial about things.

I responded with some examples of my posts here and told him I am not a member of any other forums. Since then I've heard nothing. Its been over 2 weeks....again


----------



## meambobbo

It shouldn't matter how many forums you went on and if you called him the most derogatory names in the english lexicon. He owes you money. End of story. If he doesn't pay you, he's a criminal. He took your money and has confirmed he has no intention of sending you any goods. He has no right to refuse to give you back your money.

At this point, I think his name deserves to be smeared.


----------



## Scott357

I have been waiting for this amp for almost 7 months now. In the beginning I was under the impression I would have had it by April, and well, here we are, with no amp.  

I'm frustrated but not bashing Mike by any means. The last thing I heard (which was about 2 weeks ago) he had messaged me on Facebook and said he was gonna call me the next day and give me the details about my amp. I received no phone call and messaged him the next day about it and still haven't heard anything.

Unfortunately if this takes much longer I'm going to have to pull out, this has just taken way too long and frankly I'd almost rather invest my money in an Axe-FX II. 

This thread is getting locked?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Scott357 said:


> This thread is getting locked?


 
Nope. That post above was refering to the Rig-Talk boards.


----------



## wlfers

signalgrey said:


> I got a response a little while ago, it wasnt exactly an email filled with answers. He was under the impression i have been going from forum to forum smearing him and his amps. Something I have NOT at all been doing. I have been sharing my experiences, and attempting at being impartial about things.
> 
> I responded with some examples of my posts here and told him I am not a member of any other forums. Since then I've heard nothing. Its been over 2 weeks....again



That's absurd. I haven't heard anything mildly derogatory on ss or rigtalk, from any member, let alone you. Besides, if someone has your money for a year and a half and ignores you then you're well within your right to have a few choice words.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Hey guys if theres any Aussies that have ordered a DAR through Epic guitars in NSW can you let me know. Cheers.

And for any future Epic customers they ARE NOT a Dar dealer.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Did a quick video showing the features of the FBM100-H


----------



## getaway_fromme

Alcoholocaust said:


> Did a quick video showing the features of the FBM100-H




It wreaks of jealousy in here. Fucking sick sounds with the filters though.


----------



## signalgrey

Still no word from him. Its been about 6 weeks from his last email (which told me nothing). I have informed him I will be filing a claim with the California Department of Consumer Protection and the Better Business Bureau after a week. A week has passed, still no response. Filing claims when I get home tonight (morning in US).


----------



## JohnnyCNote

I'm really sorry to see this happen, both to the people who've paid and are still waiting and for Mike, as he has a truly phenomenal amp. Maybe someone can step in and take over, like what happened with Cameron Amps in the recent past . . .


----------



## signalgrey

Claims were filed. I have heard back from both agencies, they are attempting to contact him. I will be able to follow the claim online, and will receive a call by the 26th of July (latest).

i dont understand why it is at this level now.


----------



## Larrikin666

This is going to end up snowballing into something bad for everyone. I've been dreading this day. As soon as refunds and lawsuits come into the mix for startup (I know DAR has been around for awhile) companies like this, they usually don't turn things around. I can't imagine that DAR has the capitol on hand (or the ability to liquidate enough quickly) to appease everyone requesting a refund. In addition to the last capitol if they do start refunding, more time and money will be diverted trying to work through the legal troubles. At this point, I'm going to consider my full payment on the preamp pedal gone. It really sucks, but I just can't foresee delivery ever happening.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Yeah I am glad I never gave them more than the deposit for the preamp and at this point I can't even believe that I actually got my deposit back from them months ago. I had a feeling this was gonna get bad. Glad I got my $311 back, but I feel really bad for you guys that dropped way more money and are getting screwed pretty hard. Lessons learned for me regardless. I am never throwing money down on something that is in development again.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

I hope signal gets his money back. These people are just flat out fucking retards it seems.


----------



## Krucifixtion

I knew it was a pretty bad sign when all these guys like Fred from Meshuggah and Ola were supposed to be endorsed by them and then all the sudden you never heard any of them talking about DAR ever again and then Ola got a custom Fortin head and is now endorsed by Randall.


----------



## signalgrey

Woke up really early this morning to call Mike's office. What a shock...no answer.


----------



## Kali Yuga

Krucifixtion said:


> I knew it was a pretty bad sign when all these guys like Fred from Meshuggah and Ola were supposed to be endorsed by them and then all the sudden you never heard any of them talking about DAR ever again and then Ola got a custom Fortin head and is now endorsed by Randall.


The Fortin designs are going to sound every bit as good, and that's the direction I'll be heading in 2013, instead of getting the DAR preamp and the expanded head.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kali Yuga said:


> The Fortin designs are going to sound every bit as good, and that's the direction I'll be heading in 2013, instead of getting the DAR preamp and the expanded head.



If I had the cash, I'd agree. Love Fortin AND Randall amps, so this combo = godly.


----------



## Erazoender

Honestly, the DAR's had some of the best tones I've heard in a long time, packed with some of the coolest features plus looking badass. It's a shame it had to go down this way.


----------



## signalgrey

Erazoender said:


> Honestly, the DAR's had some of the best tones I've heard in a long time, packed with some of the coolest features plus looking badass. It's a shame it had to go down this way.



i still agree. He has some of the best tech in the industry, its just that everything else has being his source of ruin.


----------



## Kali Yuga

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If I had the cash, I'd agree. Love Fortin AND Randall amps, so this combo = godly.


The price tossed around for those Randall Satan's right now is 1600 USD, which isn't much, especially considering it's Fortin designed. I'm on the DAR list (but thankfully they don't have my money) for the preamp and 4k head, but at this point if they ever emailed me for the money, I'm not sure I would bother seeing how other people are paying and even being told their amps are shipping, but not seeing or hearing anything about it afterwards.


----------



## B C

*News about the PX's?
*


----------



## signalgrey

B C said:


> *News about the PX's?
> *



judging by the state of everything else....i cant imagine they are even close to available. Even if they were I would take those dates and add on another year. Then if you send in money...you may or may not ever see it again.


----------



## Spinedriver

I think that perhaps they got caught up in developing ideas instead of actual products. Maybe if they had all of the production logistics worked out before they started taking orders, things would be a lot different now. It is kind of sad to see something this promising being executed so poorly.

Granted, no one here really knows what's going on behind the scenes. Perhaps some of his parts suppliers have bailed or discontinued what he needed from them. It could be that some of the techs he hired to help build, left for other jobs. One thing for sure though, the best way to build a small business is customer service. 

They should have taken a dozen orders and then stopped. Anyone else e-mailing to be on the waiting list, they should have said 'Sorry, but we're waiting to get our production facilities up & running before taking any more.' Same goes for the pre-amp pedals, once they had amp production up & running, then that would have been a good time to start taking orders for those. I guess what stings the most though is the fact that they're starting to ignore the people that pre-ordered. I agree with the general opinion that once you start ducking the buyers, it's going to be really hard to recover.


----------



## sevenstringj

There's gotta be someone on the planet with a Kemper and a FBM100, or at least access to both, who could model it. Then anyone who wants a DAR could buy a Kemper and call it a day.


----------



## signalgrey

Spinedriver said:


> I think that perhaps they got caught up in developing ideas instead of actual products. Maybe if they had all of the production logistics worked out before they started taking orders, things would be a lot different now. It is kind of sad to see something this promising being executed so poorly.
> 
> Granted, no one here really knows what's going on behind the scenes. Perhaps some of his parts suppliers have bailed or discontinued what he needed from them. It could be that some of the techs he hired to help build, left for other jobs. One thing for sure though, the best way to build a small business is customer service.
> 
> They should have taken a dozen orders and then stopped. Anyone else e-mailing to be on the waiting list, they should have said 'Sorry, but we're waiting to get our production facilities up & running before taking any more.' Same goes for the pre-amp pedals, once they had amp production up & running, then that would have been a good time to start taking orders for those. I guess what stings the most though is the fact that they're starting to ignore the people that pre-ordered. I agree with the general opinion that once you start ducking the buyers, it's going to be really hard to recover.



Im actually just disappointed its come to this.


----------



## wlfers

Not really sure on any course of action. Every few weeks/month or so he'll just update the facebook with a reason why he was not responding and working on the amps. This recent time apparently he was injured and broke his collarbone.

You'd figure he'd have the decency to let us know three weeks earlier about his injury and extra delay. Actually, I'm not sure why I would expect any decency from a guy who has been lying to people and holding on to their refunds. The facebook is pretty stormy right now with the discontent of guys who were promised discounts, refunds, amps shipping tomorrow...


----------



## Deliverowned

So where does that dude lives? I bet he would answer to a toc-toc on his house door.


----------



## TMM

All I want to know is, with all that's going on, what does this make the used market value of the 2 FBM's that actually do exist?


----------



## Ben.Last

TMM said:


> All I want to know is, with all that's going on, what does this make the used market value of the 2 FBM's that actually do exist?



If I were DL from The Acacia Strain, I'd go hunt them down and buy them up now. (you know, because, unlike the guys from Meshuggah, he's actually using the thing)


----------



## incinerated_guitar

I really hope this whole situation gets fixed...I tried getting some word on the PX back in February, about when it would be released. All that was said was "soon". I dont know how half a year is soon, but okay. Id still love a PX if it starts going into production though


----------



## wlfers

I think there are 4 out there: one in australia, one in japan, one with the acacia strain guy and one with some chap that posts on the DAR facebook.

Meshuggah isn't using them because they don't exist. I'm sure it sucks having a non existent signature model marketed on your name.


----------



## getaway_fromme

athawulf said:


> I think there are 4 out there: one in australia, one in japan, one with the acacia strain guy and one with some chap that posts on the DAR facebook.
> 
> Meshuggah isn't using them because they don't exist. I'm sure it sucks having a non existent signature model marketed on your name.



I don't understand this. Why would 4 seemingly random buyers have it and Fredrik not even have a prototype or 2?


----------



## MacTown09

getaway_fromme said:


> I don't understand this. Why would 4 seemingly random buyers have it and Fredrik not even have a prototype or 2?



He may have one that we do not know about. It isn't a Meshuggah amp, its a Fredrick Thordendal amp and it has been confirmed by both the man himself and by DAR that the amp will be used on Special Defects II.


----------



## wlfers

When asked a similar question, Mike posted on facebook that he was planning on getting the 100's to the regular guys who pre-ordered/paid first before sending them off to Thordendal.

Don't know how true it is, just relaying what i read


----------



## Krucifixtion

1.5 years later....4 amps shipped....what's DAR?


Dead to me as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## signalgrey

Ive been calling every other morning (for me) at various times. The mailbox is always full and no one ever picks up. $1300 just vanishing. I feel like this constitutes a certain kind of theft. 

Honestly at this point if he gave me a deal on a fucking Tuzzia I would take it. I just want my money or SOMETHING at this point.

edit: i emailed him about a deal on a Tuzzia. I just want something for my money, at least I could technically re-sell it if i needed to. Will let you guys know if anything changes.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Can we have a sticky thread for all the bullshit, thieving companies that have ever graced ss.org?

-DAR
-Emperion
-?
-?

edit: on the note of Emperion!
http://emperionguitars.com/emperion-guitars-productions-end/


----------



## sevenstringj

signalgrey said:


> Ive been calling every other morning (for me) at various times. The mailbox is always full and no one ever picks up. $1300 just vanishing. I feel like this constitutes a certain kind of theft.
> 
> Honestly at this point if he gave me a deal on a fucking Tuzzia I would take it. I just want my money or SOMETHING at this point.
> 
> edit: i emailed him about a deal on a Tuzzia. I just want something for my money, at least I could technically re-sell it if i needed to. Will let you guys know if anything changes.



You haven't told us anything they've said to you in the last few convo's. It almost sounds like they think they gave you a refund but in reality it got screwed up somehow, and now they're just ignoring you because they think you're a nutcase.


----------



## wlfers

I don't think so, because signal isn't the only guy. Check the rigtalk forum and the dar facebook group. There are a few guys who have not received their refunds, waiting months on amps that "ship tomorrow", and getting fake consolation discounts.


----------



## sevenstringj

athawulf said:


> I don't think so, because signal isn't the only guy. Check the rigtalk forum and the dar facebook group. There are a few guys who have not received their refunds, waiting months on amps that "ship tomorrow", and getting fake consolation discounts.



I can't believe 1 of them paid in full.


----------



## Sepultorture

i still can't beleive a company that made the tuzzia can even sli to this level, they make great amps, but man, there isn't a good reason for all of this at all


----------



## signalgrey

sevenstringj said:


> You haven't told us anything they've said to you in the last few convo's. It almost sounds like they think they gave you a refund but in reality it got screwed up somehow, and now they're just ignoring you because they think you're a nutcase.


 
he hasnt said anything. thats the problem. And how,may I ask, am I being a nutcase? Im not throwing obscenities or asking for anything insane. If sent the refund and it was messed up or ANYTHING, why wouldnt he ask for a confirmation. Or tell me it was sent? or ANYTHING!


----------



## sevenstringj

signalgrey said:


> he hasnt said anything. thats the problem. And how,may I ask, am I being a nutcase? Im not throwing obscenities or asking for anything insane. If sent the refund and it was messed up or ANYTHING, why wouldnt he ask for a confirmation. Or tell me it was sent? or ANYTHING!



I was just saying how HE might be looking at it. He seemed combative in your last email exchange and didn't even mention a refund or delivery.

It's hard to believe someone could be so negligent. But after looking at the rigtalk threads, it seems Dar is not too high up on Dar's list of priorities. I imagine their other amps don't sell too well. Normally, you use sales revenues or loans to invest in new products. This Fredrik Thordendal dick-riding preorder gimmick was just asking for trouble.


----------



## signalgrey

sevenstringj said:


> I was just saying how HE might be looking at it. He seemed combative in your last email exchange and didn't even mention a refund or delivery.
> 
> It's hard to believe someone could be so negligent. But after looking at the rigtalk threads, it seems Dar is not too high up on Dar's list of priorities. I imagine their other amps don't sell too well. Normally, you use sales revenues or loans to invest in new products. This Fredrik Thordendal dick-riding preorder gimmick was just asking for trouble.



I agree he did sound combative and unjustly so. And I agree, his reputation keeps getting worse with ever email he ignores, ever call her ignores, every excuse and promise he periodically posts.

Yknow if he had been able to give me a time frame I would have been understanding. But he hasnt and hes been evasive.

The BBB just contacted me about him and he has until Aug 18th to reply to them. Who knows what'll happen.


----------



## Deliverowned

Something I learned from Prison Break is when you negociates, you need leverage, like good leverage. Children are good leverages.


----------



## TMM

capoeiraesp said:


> Can we have a sticky thread for all the bullshit, thieving companies that have ever graced ss.org?
> 
> -DAR
> -Emperion
> -Razar
> -Sherman (though he at least made a good batch of beautiful work before flaking out)


----------



## purpledc

Im a little confused. Is the FBM100 just a tweaked Forza quattro or is the FBM and the Forza the same amp?


----------



## HighGain510

Krucifixtion said:


> 1.5 years later....4 amps shipped....what's DAR?
> 
> 
> Dead to me as far as I'm concerned.



Yeah that seems more than a bit odd. At first I figured it was just a few frustrated customers (no one likes to wait, myself included! ) but as more and more time went on and NOTHING shipped out it seemed like another company collecting cash and circling the drain.


----------



## technomancer

purpledc said:


> Im a little confused. Is the FBM100 just a tweaked Forza quattro or is the FBM and the Forza the same amp?



They're completely different amps, just use the same power tubes. At the rate things are going though it looks like it's never going to actually be produced


----------



## signalgrey

Got some PMs from other people who have been getting sick of this situation. I have been encouraging people to document this in some kind of legal way, and to not make this an emotional thing. Does he have your money? Did you get anything for your money? Do you have documentation/emails? Promised delivery dates? Receipts?

send em in.

Apparently, basic communication is no longer on the table. Ive tried calling and emails. Short of having someone go by his workshop I dont know what else I can do.

will update after Aug 18th when the BBB are supposed to get back to me.


----------



## benduncan

id just like to chime in and say that signalgrey isnt crazy, im the idiot that payed in full. im young, live and learn


----------



## Krucifixtion

My deposit for the FBM-PX was PayPal'd back to me on April 2nd. I was hassling him for quite a while. At this point I can't even believe I got it back. I know it's not nearly as much as what people deposited on the head's, so it almost makes me feel pretty shitty that I got mine back and other people are screwed out of way more. All I can assume is that he refunded some people and at whatever point all the money they had ended up being gone. I remember seeing a picture of a ton of amp chassis for the first run way back. So, what happened to those???


----------



## meambobbo

Krucifixtion said:


> I remember seeing a picture of a ton of amp chassis for the first run way back. So, what happened to those???



they would make for teh brootz toaster oven.


----------



## wlfers

signalgrey said:


> will update after Aug 18th when the BBB are supposed to get back to me.



I'm glad you escalated it, others(myself included) seemed to just drag our feet mad about our disappeared money. Hopefully this action brings some resolution





Just now on the Facebook group:



> Hey guys, I have seen your comments here... I'm doing the best I can. I am truly overwhelmed and not able to respond to all the negative. I have a huge pile of amps Im working on. And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry... Responding to all of this is not productive to the effort of getting things done. Please, I Sincerely request that I receive a little less of this. I have much to do and actually can use support


Not sure if this is a poor me story or not, after hearing some of the things he's said to other customers on the phone.


----------



## meambobbo

An update of WHAT the hold up was/is and when customers can actually expect the product would have been better. Seriously how long does it take to write a fb post? 5 minutes? He must be REALLY busy


----------



## 3074326

> Hey guys, I have seen your comments here... I'm doing the best I can. I am truly overwhelmed and not able to respond to all the negative. I have a huge pile of amps Im working on. And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry... Responding to all of this is not productive to the effort of getting things done. Please, I Sincerely request that I receive a little less of this. I have much to do and actually can use support



This is not the way to deal with negative comments. The way to deal with it isn't by telling the customers to stop bitching. If they're bitching, you're doing something wrong. It's not their fault. 

I've stayed quiet throughout this thread, but seeing signalgrey's lack of progress with the company, this comment really just annoyed the piss out of me. YOU TOOK PEOPLES' MONEY AND YOU AREN'T RETURNING ANYTHING TO THEM!!!! Do _something_. Well, anything other than that particular thing you just did.


----------



## benduncan

some peoples amps were the old model, the forza that were just in for a quick update and are finished, supposedly sitting on the bench and he wont even ship those either.


----------



## benduncan

3074326 said:


> This is not the way to deal with negative comments. The way to deal with it isn't by telling the customers to stop bitching. If they're bitching, you're doing something wrong. It's not their fault.
> 
> I've stayed quiet throughout this thread, but seeing signalgrey's lack of progress with the company, this comment really just annoyed the piss out of me. YOU TOOK PEOPLES' MONEY AND YOU AREN'T RETURNING ANYTHING TO THEM!!!! Do _something_. Well, anything other than that particular thing you just did.



he says "And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry" the negative comments started well after and BECAUSE he went quite.


----------



## benduncan

and notice how it was all about him and didnt have much to do with the customer or anything really to do with concrete info on the amps


----------



## wlfers

Totally, then his very next post was "Acacia Strain Album Update!!"


----------



## signalgrey

_"Hey guys, I have seen your comments here... I'm doing the best I can. I am truly overwhelmed and not able to respond to all the negative. I have a huge pile of amps Im working on. And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry... Responding to all of this is not productive to the effort of getting things done. Please, I Sincerely request that I receive a little less of this. I have much to do and actually can use support"_

*Well then give me back my fucking money back and It will stop.*

Last time I checked 2+2 still equals 4. You took money and made promises you couldnt keep, THEN you think its ok to leave out the fact that you either cant or wont deliver on your promises. THEN you think im supposed to feel bad for you when you continue on this pattern after having the balls to tell us to stop being negative?! Something is clearly wrong here.

This "pity me" shit really is the last straw. Im supposed to feel bad for you after you took my money, got evasive and then stonewalled me? Good luck pulling this one out of the fire you let run out of control because you couldnt send a god damn email with some actual information in it.

I can imagine this is going to go over well with ANYONE who has no amp and has no idea what is going to happen to their money.

boo-fucking-hoo

/rant

ill allow this to be my one overly emotional response to all this.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

> Hey guys, I have seen your comments here... I'm doing the best I can. I am truly overwhelmed and not able to respond to all the negative. I have a huge pile of amps Im working on. And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry... Responding to all of this is not productive to the effort of getting things done. Please, I Sincerely request that I receive a little less of this. I have much to do and actually can use support





I didn't know it was possible to be as unprofessional as Emperion guitars... But this guy takes the cake.

Edit: Not sure if I missed something, but it looks like he deleted that post on their wall.


----------



## HighGain510

> Hey guys, I have seen your comments here... I'm doing the best I can. I am truly overwhelmed and not able to respond to all the negative. I have a huge pile of amps Im working on. And the level of negativity has brought me to just keep quiet... yes... Sorry... Responding to all of this is not productive to the effort of getting things done. Please, I Sincerely request that I receive a little less of this. I have much to do and actually can use support



"I've been truly overwhelmed for over a year now while only delivering 4 amps! What? You expect me to actually deliver your amps from a pre-order run when I accepted your money over 12 months ago?! What do you think I am, a legitimate business or something?!   I'm just going to stop responding to your angry notes requesting your money back due to non-delivery of said items, that'll show you! "

Give me a fucking break, man. DAR has officially made my list of companies I will never do business with. Even if they somehow turn shit around, seeing all the bullshit they have pulled in the past year doesn't afford me enough trust with them to send them my money for a product and expect to actually receive the amp.  Quite the sad state of affairs, it's not like DAR amps are HUGE on the market and they had to stock a bunch of dealers with Tuzzias or Forzas or anything, so there's really no excuse for not getting the FBM stuff kicked out within a year, ESPECIALLY since they took money for them up front.

Hey DAR, here's a little pro tip for you: DO NOT ACCEPT MONEY FOR AMPS TO COVER YOUR START-UP COSTS IF YOU CAN'T SORT OUT YOUR BUGS AND DELIVER THE PRODUCT IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME!


----------



## signalgrey

HighGain510 said:


> Hey DAR, here's a little pro tip for you: DO NOT ACCEPT MONEY FOR AMPS TO COVER YOUR START-UP COSTS IF YOU CAN'T SORT OUT YOUR BUGS AND DELIVER THE PRODUCT IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME!



and tack on a big FUCK YOU for even insinuating that its our fault things have slowed down because we are harshing your buzz and being too negative.


----------



## HighGain510

signalgrey said:


> and tack on a big FUCK YOU for even insinuating that its our fault things have slowed down because we are harshing your buzz and being too negative.



I think that's the kicker, honestly. I'm just going to ignore you guys, and publicly inform you that I'm ignoring you, because it's just too much to ask for me to complete my work in a reasonable amount of time!


----------



## signalgrey

HighGain510 said:


> I think that's the kicker, honestly. I'm just going to ignore you guys, and publicly inform you that I'm ignoring you, because it's just too much to ask for me to complete my work in a reasonable amount of time!



what pisses me off is seeing that he does apparently respond and call people....but on the ones that he feels like calling. As soon as my tone shifted from being understanding to be more firm...nothing.

and according to the Facebook page, people are STILL sending in money.


----------



## HighGain510

signalgrey said:


> what pisses me off is seeing that he does apparently respond and call people....but on the ones that he feels like calling. As soon as my tone shifted from being understanding to be more firm...nothing.
> 
> and according to the Facebook page, people are STILL sending in money.



Well as you can see, now you know why. Your harsh tone really put a kink in his ability to do his job... like, whatsoever.... so at least you understand why you don't have your amp now. According to him, the best thing you can do is please kindly shut up and leave him alone so he can continue... not building your amp I guess?   I feel for you at this point, at first I figured it was just maybe being a little antsy but between his responses and total lack of production, I can't help but feel like you're going to be stuck in a crappy situation for a while to come unfortunately.


----------



## signalgrey

HighGain510 said:


> Well as you can see, now you know why. Your harsh tone really put a kink in his ability to do his job... like, whatsoever.... so at least you understand why you don't have your amp now. According to him, the best thing you can do is please kindly shut up and leave him alone so he can continue... not building your amp I guess?   I feel for you at this point, at first I figured it was just maybe being a little antsy but between his responses and total lack of production, I can't help but feel like you're going to be stuck in a crappy situation for a while to come unfortunately.



unfortunately i think you are right. But im not giving up until I get something. And I appreciate your support and understanding.


----------



## benduncan

i dont really think im going to get an amp or anything so im going to try like hell to get anything i can by filing every complaint possible, filing a small claims suit ect. someone told me it could be considered fraud and that i sould file with the ic3 since i bought it over the internet, im pretty sure that wouldnt work though. im definitely taking the all the above approach though


----------



## wlfers

signalgrey said:


> and according to the Facebook page, people are STILL sending in money.



There is a facebook page and a facebook group:

Log In | Facebook

The page is moderated by Mike, so he deletes anything mildly negative so the oblivious people still stroll by asking how/where to order. Unfortunately they have no clue the bs surrounding DAR. The group on the other hand is moderated by someone else, and that's where the customers are able to post honestly without deletion- making poor Mike upset


----------



## Decipher

Man, I really feel bad for everyone involoved in this situation. I couldn't imagine the frustration and betrayal you all are going through. This Amp company was very exciting with some crazy unique ideas that I was watching closely but things have been sliding so sharply lately. 

I can only hope that maybe behind this curtain of privacy and secrecy that they're finishing all the amps that are commited and send them all out at once to surprise everyone.


----------



## Larrikin666

This really sucks. I'm totally onboard with whoever suggested finding of these 4 units and profiling it. I have a Kemper and would be happy to profile every conceivable option on the head. 

Also, actually saw a picture of Mike for first time today. He totally doesn't look like who I expected to design an amp like this. LOL.


----------



## benduncan

Decipher said:


> Man, I really feel bad for everyone involoved in this situation. I couldn't imagine the frustration and betrayal you all are going through. This Amp company was very exciting with some crazy unique ideas that I was watching closely but things have been sliding so sharply lately.
> 
> I can only hope that maybe behind this curtain of privacy and secrecy that they're finishing all the amps that are commited and send them all out at once to surprise everyone.



lol last time i talked to him i told him that i did trust him and didnt really think he was going to give me an amp and he said "well youre going to be suprised when you get your amp", i said "GOOD!" lol. and this was just laughable, when i told him i was going to file a small claims suit, he said "well im not going to communicate with you anymore than"  "well you werent before" i said, lol, wtf planet is he on?


----------



## Larrikin666

I kind of don't want my pedal anymore. Even worse than new amps not shipping....repairs aren't shipping either. So if anything is ever wrong, then you can't depend on DAR to fix you up. With all the extra stuff in there, it's not an amp that you can take to a normal repair tech.


----------



## signalgrey

how many people are required for a class action law suit? Anybody in Cali feel like calling the police to see what they would say about this?


----------



## benduncan

i called the police station there about five times(different person every time), they wont do anything, they just keep telling me its civil, no matter what i say. one lady even said "we cant go to someones house every time they buy something off ebay thats to good to be true". when i tried to explain that this was between a company and multiple customers and that i didnt just buy some used thing off ebay, she just kept repeating "its civil" over and over again like a robot. im usually one to stick up for people in uniform but they couldnt of cared less about anything i had to say here


----------



## benduncan

and i dont know about the class action but im filing my own suit


----------



## Ben.Last

benduncan said:


> i called the police station there about five times(different person every time), they wont do anything, they just keep telling me its civil, no matter what i say. one lady even said "we cant go to someones house every time they buy something off ebay thats to good to be true". when i tried to explain that this was between a company and multiple customers and that i didnt just buy some used thing off ebay, she just kept repeating "its civil" over and over again like a robot. im usually one to stick up for people in uniform but they couldnt of cared less about anything i had to say here




That's because it IS a civil matter.


----------



## Sepultorture

i'm not trying to be a dick about this, but it is Civil, cops don't give a fuck about anyone been scammed or duped or having their money held, even if you actually had property stolen from your house, they'd come over, document it, and you'd probably never hear shit back from them again.

if i got buggered in this regard, i'd probably do the same, give the guy some leway for a time, and once i've had enough, take him to court.

as for a class action suit "t can be filed with just one person. Additional people can join in during a certain time period. Class action just means that they will split the winnings (not necessarily equally) and that there will only be one lawsuit as opposed to having a separate lawsuit for each person, which eats up court time and taxpayer money. The judgment is based on the plaintiffs experience as a whole, not as individuals. So, it's all or nothing, not a some people win and some don't type of deal."

that's what i gatherd from yahoo answers.

so talk with with people in this situation that want their money back, see who's interested, and proceed from there.


----------



## benduncan

i didnt know, im trying to do whatever i can, and a bunch people told me to call, and were saying "if that were me id be calling the cops" ect. also, some people gave gear to him to be repaired and didnt buy anything, or make a deposit and never got it back. i dont know if that counts as theft. i kept calling because i thought someone would at least tell me what to do, the BBB and attory gen both said they cant do crap if he doesnt comply/respond. so far most of the people i have talked to that have won small claims suits say they didnt get anything after that, even when they won. it just seems like when a business screws someone theres nothing you can do. im still going to try, im just not holding out much hope. i suppose it depends on what state youre in


----------



## benduncan

and thanks for the info sepultorture


----------



## Ben.Last

benduncan said:


> i didnt know, im trying to do whatever i can, and a bunch people told me to call, and were saying "if that were me id be calling the cops" ect. also, some people gave gear to him to be repaired and didnt buy anything, or make a deposit and never got it back. i dont know if that counts as theft. i kept calling because i thought someone would at least tell me what to do, the BBB and attory gen both said they cant do crap if he doesnt comply/respond. so far most of the people i have talked to that have won small claims suits say they didnt get anything after that, even when they won. it just seems like when a business screws someone theres nothing you can do. im still going to try, im just not holding out much hope. i suppose it depends on what state youre in



I've won a small claims suit (against Autozone) and got every cent they were ordered to pay me. You won't get any help from law enforcement, but I'm surprised the BBB told you that. What you need to do is figure out what legal paperwork you need to file. I was lucky, my friend's brother is a lawyer and he took care of it for me. It's going to be a pain in the ass figuring out what you need to do, but, if you want results, you're going to have to sort through it. I'm not sure if it's feasible to file a class action suit without a lawyer. A good, free step would be to head down to your nearest courthouse and ask someone where you can get the paperwork for a small claims suit and for a class action suit. If they a) tell you that you need a lawyer for the class action paperwork or b) you get one or both and the legal jargon is beyond your ability to handle, then you're going to need to involve someone with actual legal knowledge to help you fill them out and file them.

Posting here for advice from us (who, at best, are going to have a barely working understanding of how this stuff needs to be handled) and calling the police, as you've found, is simply not going to get any kind of result.


----------



## benduncan

well thats good news, and im glad you got your money. im prepared to go the extra mile. ive looked it up and i will file a small claims suit, but i couldnt afford to hire a lawyer, dar has all of my money, lol. i honestly hope he "surprises" me before all that goes through but at his current build pace  oh boy...if hes even building at all

anyway, thanks


----------



## Kali Yuga

small claims suit wont matter if mike doesnt have any money


----------



## The Honorable

I haven't followed this tread in ages but I've always been interested in getting one of the pedals once they came to be produced regularly. It really sucks to see how bad things have gotten for some of the people that laid money down early on for one of these new amps. Reallyyyyy unfortunate because when the initial videos came out they generated quite a bit of excitement on this forum iirc.


----------



## dooredge

If anyone is interested, there's a guy from Ohio that's selling his DAR FBM-100H. Check the DAR facebook page for details. I tried my hand at acquiring it, but it's too much coin for the likes of me.


----------



## incinerated_guitar

dooredge said:


> If anyone is interested, there's a guy from Ohio that's selling his DAR FBM-100H. Check the DAR facebook page for details. I tried my hand at acquiring it, but it's too much coin for the likes of me.


 
He could probably sell that thing for more than he paid for it new


----------



## Pav

dooredge said:


> If anyone is interested, there's a guy from Ohio that's selling his DAR FBM-100H. Check the DAR facebook page for details. I tried my hand at acquiring it, but it's too much coin for the likes of me.



I saw that. Did he say abouts how much he's looking for it? Now that DAR is clearly back in motion I've been interested.


----------



## dooredge

Check your PM here in a minute.

Also, I'd be cautious about placing an order. From everything I've read on the page there's still a huge back log of orders that not yet been met. Some folks are 1.5-2 years in waiting. Crazy!


----------



## wlfers

He is selling it for more than he paid for, he also isn't giving a reason why he's selling it which I think is a bit odd. 

And DAR isn't back in motion, Mike stopped by two weeks ago to say he will be more transparent now but we still haven't heard anything since. Nothing has actually shipped beyond the initial 4.


----------



## Pav

Several people have contacted Mike since then and actually gotten a response. Though as for the other thousand still waiting...seems they'll just have to keep waiting.

And I don't know why I had this crazy idea that he might be willing to take a hit to move it.  He could very well be simply trying to turn a profit based on the demand for the amps. Either way, too hefty of a price tag for one head, at least for me.


----------



## signalgrey

im still really curious as to what (if anything) hes been doing. Hes shipped four units...thats it. All these posts of promises and it just seems like nothing is actually being done


----------



## Krucifixtion

He's working 2 other jobs is supposedly what he's doing. There's no way he can keep up with any kind of demand whatsoever. People would be crazy to try and place an order with him now.


----------



## Sepultorture

Krucifixtion said:


> He's working 2 other jobs is supposedly what he's doing. There's no way he can keep up with any kind of demand whatsoever. People would be crazy to try and place an order with him now.



buddy should sell this business to a corporation and cut his losses, at this pace and with a SUPPOSED 2 jobs on the side, this more than likely will never see the light of day, it will drag on, then close, and take everyone smoney with it


----------



## meambobbo

yeah, that'd be a great business to purchase, "We have no actual products or are producing any, we owe a huge list of disgruntled individuals those phantom products, and we're probably about to be sued into bankruptcy. LET THE BIDDING BEGIN!!!"


----------



## Sepultorture

meambobbo said:


> yeah, that'd be a great business to purchase, "We have no actual products or are producing any, we owe a huge list of disgruntled individuals those phantom products, and we're probably about to be sued into bankruptcy. LET THE BIDDING BEGIN!!!"



I'm not saying it's a smart move for anyone to buy DAR up, but that's the ony way people are going to see a product come out, and it's not Phantom perse when all the hardware does actually exist.


----------



## purpledc

Sepultorture said:


> I'm not saying it's a smart move for anyone to buy DAR up, but that's the ony way people are going to see a product come out, and it's not Phantom perse when all the hardware does actually exist.




In theory it exists. No one but the guy building them knows just how much hardware actually exists. So far, 4 amps worth.


----------



## benduncan

after his update post on facebook he told me he was going to ship my amp on friday or tuesday. he told me to call him the day before (thursday) to confirm. i never heard from him again. until yesterday, he finally answer my call. he said hes going to try to get it shipped out this weekend


----------



## titan amps

meambobbo said:


> yeah, that'd be a great business to purchase, "We have no actual products or are producing any, we owe a huge list of disgruntled individuals those phantom products, and we're probably about to be sued into bankruptcy. LET THE BIDDING BEGIN!!!"



Worked for Cameron amps...sorta


----------



## Kali Yuga

I suggest some of you dudes invest in a plane ticket to California and a Louisville Slugger...


----------



## benduncan

Kali Yuga said:


> I suggest some of you dudes invest in a plane ticket to California and a Louisville Slugger...



i wish i could, he has all of my money.  seriously, lol, if he doesnt get me an amp soon im going to have to sell my engl to get my album mixed. or try to get a lone from some one, but i dont really know anyone with that kind of cash.(not telling isnt a sob story, ive got food, shelter, a freakin iphone)

i dont know how many of you know but hes extremely wealthy too so when he says he cant give me or any of you a refund its bs


----------



## -OTW-

Kali Yuga said:


> I suggest some of you dudes invest in a plane ticket to California and a Louisville Slugger...



+1. Take any amps he has on your way out too...ill be damned if i let someone get me for 4k


----------



## signalgrey

anything new? did you get your amp?


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone have his cell number? I sent him my Tuzzia for a repair like 7 months ago and can't get in touch with him now. I'd drive the hour to get it, but I have no idea if the shop is open or not at any point in time.

Edit: I just called the shop and ended up getting in touch with him. He apologized for not being good at communication, but he is working on all those FBMs. It's just him, and he also has two other jobs to pay the bills. It was the first time I ever talked with him in person, and he sounds like he's just really behind, but is working on everything, including my Tuzzia. He sounds like a pretty cool guy, but just can't get through this stuff fast enough. Anyway, that's just an update for anyone wondering what's happening there.


----------



## HighGain510

If it's been 7 months, still no word and no amp, I'd go up there on a weekday mid-day regardless. If you go to the shop and there is no one home and they won't answer phone/email, you better get to filing with the local police while you still can.  FFS DAR is absolutely off my list of companies I would EVER trust in the future, regardless of whether or not they "turn things around".


----------



## Hollowway

HighGain510 said:


> If it's been 7 months, still no word and no amp, I'd go up there on a weekday mid-day regardless. If you go to the shop and there is no one home and they won't answer phone/email, you better get to filing with the local police while you still can.  FFS DAR is absolutely off my list of companies I would EVER trust in the future, regardless of whether or not they "turn things around".



Yeah, it actually sounds like he works in the shop mostly on the weekends, so I could just buzz over. But it sounds like I'm pretty close to having mine wrapped up, which is good. I think Karma owed me after my BRJ delay!


----------



## HighGain510

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, it actually sounds like he works in the shop mostly on the weekends, so I could just buzz over. But it sounds like I'm pretty close to having mine wrapped up, which is good. I think Karma owed me after my BRJ delay!



Hope so dude, but like I said since it can be counted on ONE hand how many amps he's pushed out in a 12 month period, I wouldn't give him much longer regardless of whether or not he says he's "working on it".


----------



## benduncan

he keeps saying he works two jobs to get sympathy, hes very wealthy, he was born into a very rish family. he lives in freaking palo alto. he has multiple homes and a ranch. hes a partner at a real estate firm where a lot of his family works, ive been trying to find where else he works but i cant, if he even has another job. 

And Hollowway, i had the same conversation with him about 6 months ago, he has peoples amps that are finished, he took pics of them, with the serial number yet he wont ship them. also in his last facebook post he said he was going to finish the forza/tuzzia's he had before he got back to the fbm's yet he seems to have told you the opposite.

in that same facebook post he said he was going to start putting out 2 fbms a week, mine and some guy named mark being the first. he was answering all my phone calls, everything seemed to change, then he missed 3 deadlines and boom, silence again. until a day ago he replied to one of my facebook messages saying he was working until 11 everynight to get my amp finished. in went off on him and yelled at him for the first time. id say thats pretty good, keeping me cool for a year and 4 months, lol

i said, no youre not, were talking about two amps, TWO AMPS! THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON FOR A YEAR. if you were working on them until 11 everynight they would of been done a long time ago.

anyway, im sending him a certified letter on this week and filing a small claims suit after that. ive said that before but he always talks me out of it, but this time, im not going to tell him, he wont know until he gets the papers

sorry its so long



Hollowway said:


> Yeah, it actually sounds like he works in the shop mostly on the weekends, so I could just buzz over. But it sounds like I'm pretty close to having mine wrapped up, which is good. I think Karma owed me after my BRJ delay!



i really hate to be the bringer of bad news but ive heard that since august...OF 2011!!!!! gtf over there, hell, get my amp while youre at it, lol, ben duncan is my name id pay you to ship it to me hah and chris's forza and cab, its been finished for 6 months, ready to ship but he wont ship it

gah, sorry if i sound like an asshole guys, im just really frustraited


----------



## incinerated_guitar

benduncan said:


> gah, sorry if i sound like an asshole guys, im just really frustraited


 
I think most of us totally understand though....Being ripped off, especially for over $1000 is enough to make anyone pissed off beyond all belief


----------



## signalgrey

benduncan said:


> gah, sorry if i sound like an asshole guys, im just really frustraited


its ok dude. Im right there with you. Im honestly at a loss. Please keep me informed as to how things go for you.


----------



## benduncan

i will

i wonder if he knows the shit hes doing, as in, is he just an asshole, bi polar or is he a narcissist and aware of how to use it to his advantage, or worse a sociopath.

*MOD EDIT: Okay, you're taking things a little far now. Keep it civil and to the point at hand please. I'd hate to have to close this because we can't keep it on point.

^by the way, im sorry, i didnt think i said anything that was over the line or uncivil, but what was literally the truth. but i respect your athorataaa! and just so everyone knows(i of course wont say what i said but) i didnt stoop to name calling, saying im going to kick his ass or that hes gay or anything
*

hey, im filing a small claims suit for real this time, not going to let him talk me out of it, unless he has a tracking number, or a refund in my paypal. but..............................

first im going to send him a certified letter saying i need delivery of my product or a refund ect before i file so i can have an air tight case, anyone what what it has to say?


----------



## oniduder

yeah i think you need to calm down about the whole thing, seriously i paid in full almost 2 years ago, and i'm not nor will i ever seek restitution through a civil court or whatever you're talking about, if he's working on it, fine, if he's somehow taken my money and ran with it, fine, shit is what it is, i know this for a fact though he's never ever going to give me a snowball's chance in hell to have the amp i bought if i start throwing litigation at his ass, i know all the story rich family blablabla, he's got two jobs yes, whatever i agree and i'm not standing up for him to continually say that he's got our product ready to ship or close or whatever it is then not have it ready on a day he tells us/me we'd get a tracking number, but really the lawyers make it more of a mess, and no i want nothing i mean nothing to do with it, count me out and good luck i suppose, but honestly all i've seen you do is talk shit about him online stop it, it makes the whole thing worse still, just be cool, you'll either get it or you won't, 
i for one am in the camp (*small i might add) that eventually i'll get my amp, if you truly feel you'll never get your amp, tell him you want your money back straight up but don't bring in lawyers unless the money doesn't come within bounds of reason amount of time, 
i've also seen you post here facebook or rig-talk about when was the last time someone reached mike, "anyone talk to mike since thursday?" idk where you live but it was thursday the day you wrote that, i'm sure he called you soon after that, but it's going to become impossible for you to communicate with him after a lawsuit is opened, only through lawyers and bullshit like that
point is, calm it, thanks

as cheesy as this sounds just ignore him, let him call you, let him reach out to you, the less i call him the more he calls me honestly, and the more honest it seems he is, 

but whatever

regards


----------



## benduncan

oniduder said:


> yeah i think you need to calm down about the whole thing, seriously i paid in full almost 2 years ago, and i'm not nor will i ever seek restitution through a civil court or whatever you're talking about, if he's working on it, fine, if he's somehow taken my money and ran with it, fine, shit is what it is, i know this for a fact though he's never ever going to give me a snowball's chance in hell to have the amp i bought if i start throwing litigation at his ass, i know all the story rich family blablabla, he's got two jobs yes, whatever i agree and i'm not standing up for him to continually say that he's got our product ready to ship or close or whatever it is then not have it ready on a day he tells us/me we'd get a tracking number, but really the lawyers make it more of a mess, and no i want nothing i mean nothing to do with it, count me out and good luck i suppose, but honestly all i've seen you do is talk shit about him online stop it, it makes the whole thing worse still, just be cool, you'll either get it or you won't,
> i for one am in the camp (*small i might add) that eventually i'll get my amp, if you truly feel you'll never get your amp, tell him you want your money back straight up but don't bring in lawyers unless the money doesn't come within bounds of reason amount of time,
> i've also seen you post here facebook or rig-talk about when was the last time someone reached mike, "anyone talk to mike since thursday?" idk where you live but it was thursday the day you wrote that, i'm sure he called you soon after that, but it's going to become impossible for you to communicate with him after a lawsuit is opened, only through lawyers and bullshit like that
> point is, calm it, thanks
> 
> as cheesy as this sounds just ignore him, let him call you, let him reach out to you, the less i call him the more he calls me honestly, and the more honest it seems he is,
> 
> but whatever
> 
> regards



wtf, a guy whos been known to screw people you gave $2765 to has missed a million deadlines, i dont know about you but i dont feel like just sitting around waiting. i believe he has an amp for me but this is just ridiculous, when was the last amp he shipped? im sorry i need to take action, if you want to just wait thats fine

and i tried not calling him, i got months of silence and a missed deadline, and, mike TOLD ME TO CALL HIM every week after the facebook update

im not getting any lawyers involved, you can file small claims suits by youreself, i couldnt afford one anyway

ive talked to many past customers, a couple stores/distributes and almost all had nothing but bad things to say

im not "talking shit" hes blatently lied to me, dodged me, been just plain shady, said things like "the less i do the more interested in my coumpany people are" and me- "why dont you post some updates or keep in touch with people on facebook or something?"(this was like 6 months ago) him-"because people keep asking for their amps and im sick of it" i used to defend him on the internet back in the beginning wen people would talk shit. im not "talking shit" if someone punches you the face and you make a post about it is that talking shit?



oniduder said:


> yeah i think you need to calm down about the whole thing, seriously i paid in full almost 2 years ago, and i'm not nor will i ever seek restitution through a civil court or whatever you're talking about, if he's working on it, fine, if he's somehow taken my money and ran with it, fine, shit is what it is, i know this for a fact though he's never ever going to give me a snowball's chance in hell to have the amp i bought if i start throwing litigation at his ass, i know all the story rich family blablabla, he's got two jobs yes, whatever i agree and i'm not standing up for him to continually say that he's got our product ready to ship or close or whatever it is then not have it ready on a day he tells us/me we'd get a tracking number, but really the lawyers make it more of a mess, and no i want nothing i mean nothing to do with it, count me out and good luck i suppose, but honestly all i've seen you do is talk shit about him online stop it, it makes the whole thing worse still, just be cool, you'll either get it or you won't,
> i for one am in the camp (*small i might add) that eventually i'll get my amp, if you truly feel you'll never get your amp, tell him you want your money back straight up but don't bring in lawyers unless the money doesn't come within bounds of reason amount of time,
> i've also seen you post here facebook or rig-talk about when was the last time someone reached mike, "anyone talk to mike since thursday?" idk where you live but it was thursday the day you wrote that, i'm sure he called you soon after that, but it's going to become impossible for you to communicate with him after a lawsuit is opened, only through lawyers and bullshit like that
> point is, calm it, thanks
> 
> as cheesy as this sounds just ignore him, let him call you, let him reach out to you, the less i call him the more he calls me honestly, and the more honest it seems he is,
> 
> but whatever
> 
> regards



and ive asked him for a refund multiple times and he flat out refuses to give me one.

and oh yeah, that facebook post was made on thursday but i was referring to last weeks thursday in it and he hasnt called me since

i dont know, $2765 must be worth more to me

i do see that he made a new post about delivery so ill wait a little longer, since it was made on facebook and not verbally to me


----------



## wlfers

oniduder said:


> yeah i think you need to calm down about the whole thing



I disagree with just about everything you said. When dealing with assholes who are screwing you over, you don't just take it with the hopes that said asshole might get his fill then arbitrarily stop screwing you. 

I'm not getting where your demeanor comes from especially after reading some of your posts on RT about things Mike says to his customers over the phone



diezelduder said:


> you seem to think it's all funny on the phone, "people seem more interested the less i do" or some other nonsense, well fuck that shit, give us product and maybe you'll get somewhere, even if you don't give two shits about the music industry and you'd rather do physics or whatever for whomever, idk this is rambling, everyone is either thinking what i'm saying or has told you flat out what i'm saying, so whatever, get it together and ship product is bottom line, i've been way too nice up to this exact point,


----------



## wlfers

So on topic



> *Got the next 5 Just about to come off the bench guys. Tried to have them done last week, but ran out of time. Sorry, but have been off FB and just in the shop building every afternoon.*




I thought his plan was to just take it slow and first get the Forza repairs out and work 1 to 2 amps at a time? Oh well we will see. Let us hope we get our long awaited (and paid for) equipment.


----------



## signalgrey

i joined the facebook group. Seems like Mike posts every so often, and pretty much ignores most people. great.


----------



## Zado

first time i read this topic,and after all the shit that passed under the bridge(DAR's bridge,of course),it seems the party's not over yet.That's just crazy.
For all those who are still waiting refund: you have all my symphaty,seriously.


----------



## petervindel

I wish Line 6 would buy DAR and launch the amp as a Thordendal sig. 
Meshuggah have been using Line 6 for years, so they already know each other. 

Sad to see what is obviously a great product go to waste like this...


----------



## jrui

it is said only 3 guys got the dar amps recently, correct ???
what's the real situation of Dar right now ???
anybody could tell me who have waited the longest time here ??
I'm intrested too,but don't dare to pay the deposit&#65306;&#65289;


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Theres 4 out there. Mike is swamped with working full-time and then trying to catch up on builds (it's just Mike that builds them all by hand). They won't be taking any new orders for quite some time man.


----------



## axxessdenied

I don't get why people defend such shitty business practices. If you're behind because of some issues, let your customers who have dropped thousands waiting for a product know what the hell is going on so they aren't left to come up with their own conclusions. This guy has brought this onto himself with shitty business practices. 
I run my own business and this is not how you treat customers if you want repeat business.

Let your money do the talking and take it elsewhere! It's like the shit-tastic BRJ guitars that are rolling out these days. Guys waiting over 3-years and then getting guitars that look like a monkey built them. If idiots keep tossing them money when they clearly don't give a flying fuck about customers... well than that's what you get.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I'm not defending his "shitty business practices", just stating the truth. He can't get 30+ heads out there while working full-time.
In the next few months a few will pop up, then a few months later more will show etc 
that's the reality of it.


----------



## 3074326

Alcoholocaust said:


> I'm not defending his "shitty business practices", just stating the truth. He can't get 30+ heads out there while working full-time.
> In the next few months a few will pop up, then a few months later more will show etc
> that's the reality of it.



What exactly has he done to make you think a few are going to pop up _ever_, let alone the next few months? 

If you start a business that involves hand-building amps, you'd better be able to build them while "working full time." If he can't, he should have and doesn't deserve to have a business. This thread is a guide for new business owners about how not to run a business. I feel like that's the unfortunate reality of it, rather than him just needing a little more time. He's had much more than that already. Inexcusable. It's really the lack of communication that gets me. But it's been so long that even steady communication wouldn't cut it.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I keep in contact with Mike regularly. I've seen pictures of all the amps ( incomplete obviously). The amps haven't gone anywhere they're just extremely complicated to build and take time.
I'm not making excuses for the guy whatsoever I'm just trying to shed some light on the situation when people unfamiliar with DAR start asking about the FBM's.


----------



## 3074326

Alcoholocaust said:


> I keep in contact with Mike regularly. I've seen pictures of all the amps ( incomplete obviously). The amps haven't gone anywhere they're just extremely complicated to build and take time.
> I'm not making excuses for the guy whatsoever I'm just trying to shed some light on the situation when people unfamiliar with DAR start asking about the FBM's.



Fair enough.


----------



## wlfers

All these?







That was posted in January... it is now a few days from October. It so happens that anybody who doesn't have an FBM has a hard time getting in touch with Mike. The original complaint was not about the turnaround time, it was the get your ass online/on the phone and give us a damn update time.


----------



## HighGain510

Alcoholocaust said:


> I'm not defending his "shitty business practices", just stating the truth. He can't get 30+ heads out there while working full-time.
> In the next few months a few will pop up, then a few months later more will show etc
> that's the reality of it.



The real reality of it is that he shouldn't have taken folks money if he couldn't produce the amps while "working full time" at another job.  Just sayin'.


----------



## jrui

just curious,
Is he planning employ some people with him ??? I heard diezel have 4 people working on building,that's about 7 years ago.


----------



## Valennic

Seems to be the BRJ of the amp world at the moment. Same mistake, took too many orders, couldn't keep up, can't handle the backlash it's creating. I'd imagine after these orders get filled, or refunded, DAR's going to tank.


----------



## benduncan

jrui said:


> it is said only 3 guys got the dar amps recently, correct ???
> what's the real situation of Dar right now ???
> anybody could tell me who have waited the longest time here ??
> I'm intrested too,but don't dare to pay the deposit&#65306;&#65289;



i cant comment on whether ive been waiting the longest but i put my order in back in july of 2011. 

you probably wont be able to get one, for a LONG time unless you buy one used, because i would assume mike is going to take a break after, if he indeed does get all these amps out and keep the company going. if you buy one used, you will probably be looking at a price increase from the msrp. so i respond to your smile with a :/


----------



## Larrikin666

^ July is 4 months into the start of people paying deposits. I imagine there are quite a few people in front of you. I started talking to them about everything in April 2011 and paid for a preamp in full.


----------



## benduncan

why did we have to go and pay in full dang it  

mike said my amp is supposed to be in the first batch of two going out, but who knows


----------



## Larrikin666

I'm actually pretty glad I paid in full. I'm not nearly as upset about waiting as the majority of others in the same position, but I can understand everyone's frustrations. I have this weird feeling that Mike will have to increase prices at some point to compensate for the lack of income he's receiving since amps aren't shipping combined with the number of people requesting refunds. Having paid in full would technically make me exempt from such a gouge.


----------



## Kali Yuga

It would be a dick move to increase prices and continue taking orders at this point.


----------



## signalgrey

Alcoholocaust said:


> I keep in contact with Mike regularly. I've seen pictures of all the amps ( incomplete obviously). The amps haven't gone anywhere they're just extremely complicated to build and take time.
> I'm not making excuses for the guy whatsoever I'm just trying to shed some light on the situation when people unfamiliar with DAR start asking about the FBM's.




well im glad he has all the time to talk to you and update you about things, but stonewalls everyone else and flat out ignores anything else.


----------



## signalgrey

jrui said:


> it is said only 3 guys got the dar amps recently, correct ???
> what's the real situation of Dar right now ???
> anybody could tell me who have waited the longest time here ??
> I'm intrested too,but don't dare to pay the deposit&#65306;&#65289;



I ordered in 2010. And he wont reply to anything, or even acknowledge i exist, yet he has my money.


----------



## jrui

just curious
since fbm100 is around 3K USD
any good choise at this price level ???

i just know invader / kr7 are around 3k ,uber tj 2k7, UL and einstein are 500 more
any other monsters ??


----------



## signalgrey

jrui said:


> just curious
> since fbm100 is around 3K USD
> any good choise at this price level ???
> 
> i just know invader / kr7 are around 3k ,uber tj 2k7, UL and einstein are 500 more
> any other monsters ??



Fryette Pitbull


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Those amps you listed are all very different. I would recommend trying them out for sure.


----------



## jjcor

Also look at a Rhodes collosus amp.


----------



## Kali Yuga

Why spend 3k? Just want for the Randall Satan. It'll do what the FBM does for a fraction of the price, and none of the bullshit.


----------



## Ben.Last

Kali Yuga said:


> Why spend 3k? Just want for the Randall Satan. It'll do what the FBM does for a fraction of the price, and none of the bullshit.



Despite appearing to be a great amp, it's sounded nothing like the FBM in any of the videos I've seen of it.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Yeah it doesnt sound like the pod xt big bottom at all!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah it doesnt sound like the pod xt big bottom at all!


----------



## benduncan

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah it doesnt sound like the pod xt big bottom at all!


----------



## Wookieslayer

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah it doesnt sound like the pod xt big bottom at all!



LOL yes. Def could get a Pod XT into a beast power section and get something similar lol.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Good to see im not the only one that thought these sound like big bottoms with tooobs


----------



## Wookieslayer

I prefer this video, LOL


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Ooo they have michael keene/skrillex on vocals


----------



## Wookieslayer

haha


----------



## benduncan

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Good to see im not the only one that thought these sound like big bottoms with tooobs



i dislike some parts of the tone in the second video, but i would be one of the ones that would disagree


----------



## Ben.Last

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah it doesnt sound like the pod xt big bottom at all!



Hey, I never said anything about which one I preferred or anything. Simply that suggesting an amp to someone that doesn't sound like an amp they want is kind of sideways.


----------



## Gilbertsgotbrootz

I called him a month ago when I was in san fran I wanted to try out some amps and he said he could drive from palo alto up to orinda if I wanted to try out a amp . He wouldn't let me come to his shop for some reason . He insisted on coming up , thank god I didn't order one after reading a few of these horror stories .


----------



## incinerated_guitar

No need for the sensory amusia hate, guys  But youre right, definetely sounds close to the big bottom


----------



## Sepultorture

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I called him a month ago when I was in san fran I wanted to try out some amps and he said he could drive from palo alto up to orinda if I wanted to try out a amp . He wouldn't let me come to his shop for some reason . He insisted on coming up , thank god I didn't order one after reading a few of these horror stories .



yeah that doesn't sound like more red flags at all


----------



## Wookieslayer

incinerated_guitar said:


> No need for the sensory amusia hate, guys  But youre right, definetely sounds close to the big bottom



I don't think anyone's hating on them, they kick ass


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I need one of these amps ASAP


----------



## GTailly

^ Read the previous pages?


----------



## Gilbertsgotbrootz

In(Di)visions said:


> ^ Read the previous pages?


Lol It only took me talking to the guy let alone reading this to say f that


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Cmon guys, you can't judge an amp purely by youtube videos!
I also realise you can't exactly walk in and test these things for yourself.....it's a sticky situation.
In the DAR features video it's only chugs and moving knobs it wasn't aimed at "tone".
And that 2nd live video is purely raw and live - from the 57 to the desk. No magic haha.

It's a 'different" sounding amp for sure.

I'm also looking forward to trying the Randall Satan!


----------



## Atomshipped

I doubt anyone's really worried about these amps not sounding good. I think they're worried about the amps not existing.


----------



## signalgrey

Alcoholocaust said:


> Cmon guys, you can't judge an amp purely by youtube videos!
> I also realise you can't exactly walk in and test these things for yourself.....it's a sticky situation.
> In the DAR features video it's only chugs and moving knobs it wasn't aimed at "tone".
> And that 2nd live video is purely raw and live - from the 57 to the desk. No magic haha.
> 
> It's a 'different" sounding amp for sure.
> 
> I'm also looking forward to trying the Randall Satan!



your right we cant....because there are no other videos by people who own them.


----------



## jrui

my friend got one as i mentioned before 
no mean judgement,but something I think is quite important to let more guys know:
FBM100H is quite noisy even worth than engl (which are built in FACTORY and he tried side by side at the same time same place)

since it has built in noise gate , so of course that's not A PROBLEM .
and no mean judgement , just let you guys know.

btw , though it printed CRUNCH on channel 2, but actually that's a high gain channel
which means one solid-state clean channel , and THREE HIGH GAIN CHANNELs !!! quite awesome


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Did he get a Forza? Because the FBM channels are printed Clean, Metal 1, Metal 2, Metal 3.


----------



## jrui

Alcoholocaust said:


> Did he get a Forza? Because the FBM channels are printed Clean, Metal 1, Metal 2, Metal 3.



3 "metal" one is FBM100HX 
100h printed normally

he had talked to mike , 100HX is still not coming out


----------



## Alcoholocaust

It sounds like he bought a Forza man because the only FBM's out there are 100H's and they're printed Metal 1,2,3


----------



## jrui

i'll talk to him ,maybe i don't remember quite that right


----------



## benduncan

after all the craziness my amps finally been shipped and should arrive on monday!


----------



## Sepultorture

benduncan said:


> after all the craziness my amps finally been shipped and should arrive on monday!



LET'S JUST HOPE IT IS INDEED SHIPPED, then we wil know that pigs have flown


----------



## benduncan

i have a tracking number so unless its a box of lead


----------



## Sepultorture

benduncan said:


> i have a tracking number so unless its a box of lead



after all the shit i have read with DAR, i'm gunna beleive it when i see it

but when you get it, please NGD the shit out of it and whore us a tonne of pics too drool over. then go play the shit out of it and review it later.

stilla vary sick concept for an amp, but all this shite makes people wary.


----------



## BHuard75

benduncan said:


> after all the craziness my amps finally been shipped and should arrive on monday!



WOW, I'm happy your getting your amp. I know how infuriating and frustrating your ordeal has been as I'm waiting on three vendors and 2 of them I have no faith in seeing product from.


----------



## Zado

Sorry,I couldn't resist


----------



## Sepultorture

that exact pic was exactly the one i had in my mind LOL


----------



## benduncan

"its just got a little DAR on it, its still good, its still good"


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Nice man! look forward to finally discussing this amp with someone, hahah.
Also looks like Mike has some help in the shop now!


----------



## petervindel

Alcoholocaust said:


> Also looks like Mike has some help in the shop now!



Yup, that´s what he said on Facebook. I really hope he turns things around. The amp looks/sounds amazing.


----------



## meambobbo

Sweet. Maybe he should start getting some endorsers. 
;-p


----------



## benduncan

NAD thread with clips coming in a week or two!


----------



## hellaboogie

benduncan said:


> NAD thread with clips coming in a week or two!


Awesome, happy for you man, can't wait to hear what you think of it


----------



## 3074326

Well holy shit.. Maybe the Mayans were right. 12/21 is just around the corner. And here we have a DAR. Can't be a coincidence.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

...My eyes are deceiving me. This can't be real...

Someone pinch me.


----------



## asher

Those tubes are friggin' ridiculously huge.

Awesome.


----------



## poopyalligator

Yay, so glad somebody got theirs. Enjoy your amp!


----------



## Sepultorture

swore i could seen a pig fly by my window just now

i can't believe it either, it's almost a miracle.

but i still will never consider a DAR until these are a little more out there and more accessible than they are now (ordering wise, not going to a store)


----------



## signalgrey

i really hope this is the beginning of a better business plan. Im not going to lie, I was really bummed that all this shit happened, and how it was dealt with etc...

I wish Mike no ill-will, I would like to conclude my business with him in a positive way, and soon.


----------



## cyb

if they right the ship and still come out with that planned preamp pedal I am all over it...


----------



## wlfers

^ To my knowledge mike isn't even done with the development on the PX. I put my pre-order over a year ago on it and we are still waiting for the rest of the 100s to ship first. It's taken since March for the next 100 to finally arrive so I'm sure the pedals are far off.

This is exciting that ben finally received the 100H . It shows us that the gears are still turning albeit slowly- and that everyone will hopefully get their gear.


----------



## Ben.Last

Who's going to be the first to profile one for the Axe FX and Kemper once these start actually getting into the wild???


----------



## petervindel

Happy for you man! 
As soon as these become available through a retailer I am ordering one!


----------



## Wookieslayer

petervindel said:


> Happy for you man!
> As soon as these become available through a retailer I am ordering one!






Grats benduncan


----------



## HighGain510

signalgrey said:


> i really hope this is the beginning of a better business plan. Im not going to lie, I was really bummed that all this shit happened, and how it was dealt with etc...
> 
> I wish Mike no ill-will, I would like to conclude my business with him in a positive way, and soon.



Yeah I'm hoping now that he's shipping these, he'll refund the folks who are still waiting for refunds and not just pretend like they never sent him money he's been sitting on forever....  



Lern2swim said:


> Who's going to be the first to profile one for the Axe FX and Kemper once these start actually getting into the wild???



Now THAT would be awesome!  Only issue there is there are TONS of knobs on that thing for EQ-shaping, so the profiles/tone match blocks would be only based on whatever settings the person profiling them selects... unless they did a half dozen with different settings...  Quick, someone with both get over to Ben's house!


----------



## Larrikin666

HighGain510 said:


> Now THAT would be awesome!  Only issue there is there are TONS of knobs on that thing for EQ-shaping, so the profiles/tone match blocks would be only based on whatever settings the person profiling them selects... unless they did a half dozen with different settings...  Quick, someone with both get over to Ben's house!



Totally doable. The ENGL SE has a ridiculous amount of buttons, knobs, and channels as well. Someone put together like 20ish great profiles for it with different settings. Honestly, I'd actually prefer that the Amp Factory got ahold of what of these. The rigs they put out on the Kemper absolutely kill what users have figure out how to do so far. 


Side note, I want to see picture of that entire head. The metal shell makes me nervous. That thing has to be pretty damn heavy, and there's nothing on there except the chassis to absorb any shock from a fall.


----------



## Baco

I don't know if I have put these up already, but these are some pictures I took at/around NAMM in January: 

















More here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.294144113975954.69898.149762801747420&type=3


----------



## Krucifixtion

Wow hell froze over......temporarily at least.


----------



## rg401

Hope Mike keep the business running and this thing becomes more easy to get! Lot of sh*it had happen. Dream amp.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

It's really hard to make a kemper profile of these guys.
There is a million paramaters (the hi/low filters especially) that make the slightest difference. I've tried it - wasn't happy with it.
I have very little Kemper experience though! So it may work in the hands of a pro


----------



## HighGain510

Alcoholocaust said:


> It's really hard to make a kemper profile of these guys.
> There is a million paramaters (the hi/low filters especially) that make the slightest difference. I've tried it - wasn't happy with it.
> I have very little Kemper experience though! So it may work in the hands of a pro



Yeah I would say one of the guys that put the REALLY nice profiles together should give it a go, there are a few folks out there who apparently have a knack for that type of stuff and have gotten great results!


----------



## DjentDjentlalala

If you wanted meshuggah's tone a couple years ago you would have needed a long scale 8 string and a POD,now you need a 6000 $ guitar and a 4000$ head


----------



## OfArtAndArsenal

My oh my but that thing is sexy. All things considered, if I actually had the clams, I'd be willing to overlook all the negative...


----------



## Sepultorture

OfArtAndArsenal said:


> My oh my but that thing is sexy. All things considered, if I actually had the clams, I'd be willing to overlook all the negative...



you have plenty of time to save, Mike still has alot of catching up to do, and if he's smart he'll put off taking more orders until he's done with what he has and makes some more

as for people wanting refunds, he'll probably wait until all the ordered heads are completed, then refund and put those ordered up for sale


----------



## Decipher

I'm still gonna keep an eye on DAR simply because this line is extremely interesting. I still have serious GAS for either the loaded Jocke Box or the FBM100X. Hopefully things roll out better now.

I am still awaiting the endorser to receive and use his own though....


----------



## Ben.Last

DjentDjentlalala said:


> If you wanted meshuggah's tone a couple years ago you would have needed a long scale 8 string and a POD,now you need a 6000 $ guitar and a 4000$ head



And they sound more or less the same.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I really hope the pedals come to life. It's a bit hard carting a 35kg head around touring haha.
Also Fredrik's is coming up in the next few, to be used in Special Defects if i remember correctly. I'm looking forward to Jocke getting one with some tasty clips!


----------



## oniduder

got a tracking number tonight, my 100H FBM will be here on thursday next week, boosh!


----------



## 3074326

Well shit. As bad as I felt for the guys who were getting screwed in this thread, it was always interesting to read the developments. 

Glad you guys are finally getting your stuff.


----------



## oniduder

3074326 said:


> Well shit. As bad as I felt for the guys who were getting screwed in this thread, it was always interesting to read the developments.
> 
> Glad you guys are finally getting your stuff.



well yeah thanks i'm glad to, and was previously enraged to the point of strangling every first born in egypt or some shit, but yeah it's going to be a good amp i hope, thanks again


----------



## wlfers

I'm excited for the heads to finally get out there, for one reason because once the first run of 100Hs are out Mike is suppose to do a run of PXs. To my knowledge they aren't even finished with development so I'd like to hear an announcement on it.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

I was following this sordid affair from the Rig-Talk forum, and didn't know there was so much discussion over here. I never got one myself, but I exchanged some emails with Mike and was looking for a way to try one out. Sometimes, even when the funds seem impossibly out of reach, after I try something out I get into this obsessive state, marked by extreme tunnel vision, among other symptoms. Then I figure out a way to get it. I just hope i haven't sold my soul too many times over.

If Mike's really shipping these DAR's, I'm beyond amazed, but also regard it as great news for all of you who were caught up in this. He's apparently a great engineer, and has created a true work of art, but he needs to find someone to manage his business affairs if he ever wants to salvage what's left of his reputation and leave his mark in the history of guitar amps.

Of course, if anyone left some dead fish or other such "messages" he's keeping tight-lipped about it . . .


----------



## purpledc

Alcoholocaust said:


> I really hope the pedals come to life. It's a bit hard carting a 35kg head around touring haha.
> Also Fredrik's is coming up in the next few, to be used in Special Defects if i remember correctly. I'm looking forward to Jocke getting one with some tasty clips!





That was something I never understood. How is it that Fredrik, (you know that guy who helped design the amp and whos name is on the front?) didnt end up with the first one or at least the prototype? It seems to me that the guy behind the amp would have had a better spot in line.


----------



## Kali Yuga

I'm on a list for the pedal, but honestly if he called/emailed me about putting down the money, I'm not certain I would even bother. If he gets through all of these heads, then the pedals without a hitch, I might consider purchasing the more expanded head. But, this man doesn't seem to be worth my business from how he's conducted himself so far. It may be a fine product, but I don't feel comfortable with him personally. I had money down on a pedal back when Paul was with the company, but was able to get a refund long before all the stink started happening. I got back on when it was announced they were doing preorders without deposits. It all seems too sketchy for me, glad it's starting to look better for some people though. I expect to see pigs flying around when I go out today.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

He used to have a permanent support topic on Rig-Talk, but they dropped him due to all of the problems. If you were to place an order, be sure to use a credit card and not a debit card, if that's what you normally use as the credit card affords more protection than the debit card does . . .


----------



## signalgrey

wrote him a peaceful email stating that I was glad to hear things are moving along again, and that I hope we can resolve our business.

....no response.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

I made a similar post on his FB page . . .


----------



## aawshred

I think im going to order one of the fmb100x's, and im even sort of thinking about the preamp pedal. shot them an email, really want to get one of these things.


----------



## wlfers

Make sure you've read the first 26 pages of this thread beforehand.


----------



## aawshred

Are the preamp pedal and fbm100x somewhat similar? mainly in that they both have the IR responses and everything? the preamp pedal just has smaller tubes and lacks a poweramp. 

any elaboration on this would be appreciated, trying to figure out whether i would even need the fbm100x.


----------



## Sepultorture

aawshred said:


> Are the preamp pedal and fbm100x somewhat similar? mainly in that they both have the IR responses and everything? the preamp pedal just has smaller tubes and lacks a poweramp.
> 
> any elaboration on this would be appreciated, trying to figure out whether i would even need the fbm100x.



none of those products even physically exist yet, so not like we can really comment on them other than what DAR have stated about their "capabilities".

until he's finally caught up with the FBM100 heads and actually has made the preamp pedal and the more advanced head, i wouldn't really bother to look into it further just yet


----------



## xCaptainx

and considering how long it's taken for these TWO heads to be made, you'll be looking at least another 2-3 years until the pedals are made (if at all, given the dramas?)


----------



## wlfers

^ Yep, and considering development is not finished on the pedal yet.. 



aawshred said:


> Are the preamp pedal and fbm100x somewhat similar? mainly in that they both have the IR responses and everything? the preamp pedal just has smaller tubes and lacks a poweramp.
> 
> any elaboration on this would be appreciated, trying to figure out whether i would even need the fbm100x.



The pedal, according to mike (from conversations long ago when he talked to customers), is suppose to have more features than originally anticipated to keep up with Kemper/AxeFXII. I don't know if this applies to the HX head.

Do you need a power section to drive a speaker cabinet? If not then I'd say the pedal is more than enough. The pedal will have IRs of the head's power section.


----------



## aawshred

from the sounds of it the pedal would be all i need. bummer to hear that its going to be a while, i'd order one right now if i could.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Was mucking around with the pre shaping filters before and made a quick clip


----------



## MF_Kitten

Alcoholocaust said:


> Was mucking around with the pre shaping filters before and made a quick clip




WHAT IS THIS SORCERY HOLY CUNT


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

So none of this stuff has come to fruition yet except for a few of the first heads being shipped out? The FBM-100H's or FBM-100HX's?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MF_Kitten said:


> WHAT IS THIS SORCERY HOLY CUNT



It's called doom.


----------



## Sepultorture

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's called doom.



awesome epic metal reply \m/


----------



## geofreesun

any updates on these? i want my pedal...


----------



## wlfers

best place for dar information is the facebook group which is different from the official facebook "page". mike has slowly been shipping amps out one by one, but apparently not in the first come first serve order that was initially supposed to happen. also note one guy's 100's fx loop doesn't work 

i'm a pedal order like you and it's probably not going to happen anytime soon.


----------



## DarkWolfXV

Alcoholocaust said:


> Was mucking around with the pre shaping filters before and made a quick clip




Wow, wonder how would Carcass sound on it.


----------



## benduncan

i traded my FBM for a forza quattro. its and amazing metal amp but i just couldnt get my lower gain sound to work on it. i wish though, its tone shaping ability was great. the video above is a good example. i think the forza might work better for me. it gets here tomorrow


----------



## Sleazy_D

Decipher said:


> I am still awaiting the endorser to receive and use his own though....



Yeah all this gassing, and it didnt even dawn upon me haha


----------



## Speculum Speculorum

Did anything ever actually come of this? I'm curious. The amp sounds epic and brutal. I think if we could ever get a hold of one somebody should send this amp to Cliff at Fractal Audio to emulate - then a whole lot more people can get the amp before this dude will ever ship them.


----------



## geofreesun

or kemper it


----------



## Alcoholocaust

It's not that easy. The thing that makes the amp unique is the low/hi filters and you can't profile that. The amp sounds/reacts different with each guitar and speaker cabinet.
Theres just way too many variables. 
I've profiled mine a few times and each time it's different.


----------



## signalgrey

Has Mike been in contact with anyone? He STILL has not responded to any of my attempts at contact. This will be another year where he has had my money and I have had nothing to show for it.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

signalgrey said:


> Has Mike been in contact with anyone? He STILL has not responded to any of my attempts at contact. This will be another year where he has had my money and I have had nothing to show for it.



I was just checkout out his FB page and there are several people in the same situation as you. I had (mistakenly) thought that he'd managed to get his problems resolved. I even posted some words of encouragement. I was interested in his amps for a while, but I'd go out of my way to avoid them now. What I can't understand is why he doesn't either find some backing or simply sell off his business. He's got a great product, and I'm sure the right people could turn a profit . . .


----------



## Cinghio_Grind

There is no more DAR i think, i send my deposit to Mike in July 2011, supposed to have it 3 months later...But last mail i got from him it's from many moths ago, saying my amp will be shipped in 3 weeks, it's a shame, and my situation is not the worst...


----------



## JohnnyCNote

You may be able to catch Mike at Vittoria Management Co. It's a leasing business in Palo Alto, CA that's owned by Mike's family. Maybe if enough people call he'll know people haven't forgotten about him and that he needs to do SOMETHING. Here's a phone number for them: Main Office Phone: 650-328-7480 Main Office Fax: 650-328-7482.

This information is available through Google, so it's public information, not private. Beyond calling, I'd check with law enforcement agencies in Palo Alto to see if his actions constitute fraud. There's also the FBI, USPS and FTC.

The Better Business Bureau for Palo Alto has a listing for DAR. Not surprisingly it's rated F. It wouldn't hurt to file more complaints as it's just more pressure. The main thing is not to give up, even if it seems hopeless . . .


----------



## Cinghio_Grind

You right, the only problem is that i live in Europe and start a legal action or just going there and knock to his office for me could be much more expensive than my 1000&#8364; deposit i've sent to him.


----------



## Zado

Cinghio_Grind said:


> You right, the only problem is that i live in Europe and start a legal action or just going there and knock to his office for me could be much more expensive than my 1000 deposit i've sent to him.


considerando poi la giustizia italiana.....


----------



## Krucifixtion

The DAR website should just be a big sign that says "Abandon all hope ye who enter here!"

What's the point of an amp if you you don't get it until another 5 years from now???


----------



## Cinghio_Grind

Well anybody knows if will be 5 years! Right now looks like "Never".
He got the money, supposed to made my amp in 3 months, writing to me "your amp will be shipped in 3 weeks, 2 weeks, 1 month" he wrote me my amp is ready like 2 months ago just to shut up me on the official DAR page.


----------



## sevenstringj

I'm guessing he just went insane when Thordendal used amp sims to record Koloss.


----------



## Cinghio_Grind

Thordendal never used DAR for the record...He still doesn't have his amp!


----------



## Veldar

Cinghio_Grind said:


> Thordendal never used DAR for the record...He still doesn't have his amp!



Funny, I just asked him on Facebook today.
This whole situation with DAR is ridiculous kind of like DR bass on talkbass, but still I really want one of the amps.


----------



## Cinghio_Grind

Dude, if you want i'll sell you my deposit of 1000&#8364;, even for 900&#8364; if you want, i don't believe more in DAR and i just want to get out from this nightmare, BUT if you want you can be on my place list, mine should be one of the first 20 FBM-H run.
I've no idea what's going on with Mike and i don't want to know, i just want to sell my deposit and never ear his name in my life.
If you don't care about time and you can wait until Mike will start to work again on DAR it's wait you are looking for.


----------



## benduncan

i would like to say that i tried calling his workplace, several times many months ago. he was always way from his desk and i was never able to get in thought with hi that way.

i got my amp and he has been great to me since, and i honestly have no clue why, lol. maybe before he was just stressed out from it all, of maybe he was embarrassed for not having much to tell me

but oh well, hes a good guy when hes in normal mode. 

but i feel for everyone. i was once on your situations, scared to death that i wouldnt get my savings back (its still tied up in amps, but when i figure one which is best for me in will be back to normal lol) now that i have a forza, im thinking to attempting the impossible and getting an fbm to go with it. this would all depend on how much my engl sold for.

*MIKE, I'V FORGIVEN OF COURSE. IF YOU PROVIDE A PLACE TO CRASH AND TRANSPORTATION TO THE SHOP I WILL WORK FOR FREE. I WILL WORK LONG HOURS, DO NEARLY WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO HELP YOU GET THESE AMPS Out THE DOOR!!!*

thought i will be gone for 3 months, i should be more mentally stable after that (he knows that im talking about. also as long as i have a little time to work on music


----------



## wlfers

Just a bit of comic update, Mike disabled all user comments on the official DAR facebook. This came a week or two after he started blocking certain customers from commenting


----------



## EOT

It really is a shame things have gotten this way. All it would take is a little bit of communication from Mike. Or for him to hire someone to tell people what the hell is going on. They are such unique sounding amps.


----------



## sylcfh

$890 for a preamp?

Screw that!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sylcfh said:


> $890 for a preamp?
> 
> Screw that!



For a hand-made tube pre, thats not bad.


----------



## 3074326

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For a hand-made tube pre, thats not bad.



$1 is too much for anything from this company. The shit basically doesn't exist.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

3074326 said:


> $1 is too much for anything from this company. The shit basically doesn't exist.



True.


----------



## sylcfh

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For a hand-made tube pre, thats not bad.





I could get two custom jobs from Salvation Mods for that.


----------



## Larrikin666

sylcfh said:


> I could get two custom jobs from Salvation Mods for that.



If they can make a multi-channel, all tube floor preamp with built-in IRs for under $750, I think quite a few people on here would be interested in that.


----------



## sylcfh

Larrikin666 said:


> If they can make a multi-channel, all tube floor preamp with built-in IRs for under $750, I think quite a few people on here would be interested in that.





We can ask Egnater to do it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

You do that.


----------



## Larrikin666

sylcfh said:


> We can ask Egnater to do it.




LOL. I'm not gonna hold my breath.


----------



## sylcfh

He never stopped making modules. Let's get a floor based modular series going!


----------



## Damo707

Anyone have the actually story about dar amps? Seems like years have past and still no new YouTube vids from any users.. Is it safe to say its game over now?


----------



## Larrikin666

Damo707 said:


> Anyone have the actually story about dar amps? Seems like years have past and still no new YouTube vids from any users.. Is it safe to say its game over now?


----------



## Speculum Speculorum

So disappointing. These amps have such a unique character and it's a shame that things went so shitty. What the hell is wrong with these business guys that do this, anyway?


----------



## Demiurge

Speculum Speculorum said:


> What the hell is wrong with these business guys that do this, anyway?



If there was a venn diagram where one circle is "talent to create a unique, desirable product" and the other is "ability to run a good business", the intersecting point when it comes to custom guitars and boutique gear is tragically small.


----------



## Speculum Speculorum

Oh, I know and get that. My whole thing is that they drag a bunch of people's money, hopes, dreams, and good faith along with them. Their tragedy is a bunch of other people's pain as well. It's a sick, sick world.


----------



## benduncan

benduncan said:


> i would like to say that i tried calling his workplace, several times many months ago. he was always way from his desk and i was never able to get in thought with hi that way.
> 
> i got my amp and he has been great to me since, and i honestly have no clue why, lol. maybe before he was just stressed out from it all, of maybe he was embarrassed for not having much to tell me
> 
> but oh well, hes a good guy when hes in normal mode.
> 
> but i feel for everyone. i was once on your situations, scared to death that i wouldnt get my savings back (its still tied up in amps, but when i figure one which is best for me in will be back to normal lol) now that i have a forza, im thinking to attempting the impossible and getting an fbm to go with it. this would all depend on how much my engl sold for.
> 
> *MIKE, I'V FORGIVEN OF COURSE. IF YOU PROVIDE A PLACE TO CRASH AND TRANSPORTATION TO THE SHOP I WILL WORK FOR FREE. I WILL WORK LONG HOURS, DO NEARLY WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO HELP YOU GET THESE AMPS Out THE DOOR!!!*
> 
> thought i will be gone for 3 months, i should be more mentally stable after that (he knows that im talking about. also as long as i have a little time to work on music


 
i woke up in the night and wrote this while on sleeping pills. 

im not saying i dont mean it but its something i should of said to him privately and not declared in all caps...underlined...bold, lol.

a little embarrassed, please ignore it, and some of the other stuff i said about myself


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Well if you guys want, just buy a tube poweramp and use the pod XT's big bottom amp sim, it sounds the same anyways.


----------



## Hollowway

Damo707 said:


> Anyone have the actually story about dar amps? Seems like years have past and still no new YouTube vids from any users.. Is it safe to say its game over now?



No, he's still building. I talked with him a couple of times on the phone in the last 3-4 months (he's got my Tuzzia he's repairing). Sounds like he's pretty much just working by himself, and it's going really slow, but he is still open, and still building. Not sure when these will get out to everyone, but the business is technically up and running.


----------



## EOT

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Well if you guys want, just buy a tube poweramp and use the pod XT's big bottom amp sim, it sounds the same anyways.



Not really. You can get pretty close to the sound, but it feels very different. Also, the top end is really smooth. It cuts like crazy but the treble frequencys aren't piercing and don't hurt your ears. It's kinda weird actually.


----------



## Sepultorture

i still believe someone with more money and resources should buy his company and get this shit in high gear, give people their amps and start getting some semblance of a surplus going so that others can start buying these awesome designs


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Well if you guys want, just buy a tube poweramp and use the pod XT's big bottom amp sim, it sounds the same anyways.



Classic SS.org quality post. Never tried the amp or heard it but has something to say about it. 

Yeah this situation really sucks. Such promising gear


----------



## Andromalia

Sepultorture said:


> i still believe someone with more money and resources should buy his company and get this shit in high gear



Seen from the outside, as an inverstor, his company is worth nothing, it's likely in debt and has no assets, and you're not even sure the amp designs belong to the company and not to an individual. If you buy the company you have to deliver the past orders for which the money has probably disappeared already in salary.
That's a classic con: create a company, take orders, pay yourself a salary for some time, tank the company when it's broke.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

EOT said:


> Not really. You can get pretty close to the sound, but it feels very different. Also, the top end is really smooth. It cuts like crazy but the treble frequencys aren't piercing and don't hurt your ears. It's kinda weird actually.



I was mostly kidding but I'm guessing they sound similar because Thordendal helped design it and his favorite model on the XT/x3 was the big bottom 




Alcoholocaust said:


> Classic SS.org quality post. Never tried the amp or heard it but has something to say about it.
> 
> Yeah this situation really sucks. Such promising gear



I was mostly kidding but you can turn that statement right around cant you?


----------



## Sepultorture

Andromalia said:


> Seen from the outside, as an inverstor, his company is worth nothing, it's likely in debt and has no assets, and you're not even sure the amp designs belong to the company and not to an individual. If you buy the company you have to deliver the past orders for which the money has probably disappeared already in salary.
> That's a classic con: create a company, take orders, pay yourself a salary for some time, tank the company when it's broke.



i'm not saying that there would bne no research into the pros and cons of buying the company, just that it would seama better option than just letting status quo continue on

also invest, hell no

if the designs and everything under DAR belong exclusively to him, why not buy it, finish the amps, give out the orders to all who made them, then try to build the company up. or just buy the design and go from there


----------



## JohnnyCNote

I've suggested several times that there should be some sort of solution that could be found through investors. Naturally, the issue of those who're owed money and/or amps has to be addressed. Does anyone have even a ballpark idea of how many that could possible be? Would it be 100, 50, less or more?

Then there's the question of who owns the designs. Perhaps Mike could be kept on as a "designer", with no authority over the finances in any way. This would provide a way for him to pay off his debts. The new ownership would then be able to start the long path to rehabilitate the brand's reputation. Maybe a less expensive model would have to be offered, or a line of quality effects, in order to attract some capital.

I've even thought about using a crowd-sourcing solution, like Kickstarter, to get things rolling. I'm convinced that the original concept still has value. There was a similar situation with Cameron Amps over on Rig-Talk.com. Several people got together and bought them out and now the company is back on track.

If I were still in the Bay Area I'd give it some really serious thought, but being in Florida, I may as well be in Europe as far as taking over DAR goes . . .


----------



## Scattered Messiah

Yeah, a pity.

Plus, unfortunately enough, we know nothing about the state of the designs
(at what stage is the IR, how far are the prototypes, ect...I mean, part of the product obviously exists)
or the backlog of orders.

So it's pretty much impossible to figure out, how much startup/revival capital you need (for exapmple to create an efficient production process).

However the product(s) themselves would sell, I am quite sure.
The Preamp, for example would pretty much be without real competition, but in a niche, where I guess there's enough demand to get things going.


----------



## mongey

Alcoholocaust said:


> Classic SS.org quality post. Never tried the amp or heard it but has something to say about it.
> 
> Yeah this situation really sucks. Such promising gear


 

That thing sounds amazing. Yoiu guys coming to sydney anytime soon ? Love to hear it in person


----------



## Alcoholocaust

mongey said:


> That thing sounds amazing. Yoiu guys coming to sydney anytime soon ? Love to hear it in person



Definitely when our album is out, I'd say mid-year.
I'll bring it for sure, I took it to Melb a few months ago and let a few people play it. Hit me up if you see us!


----------



## JohnnyCNote

Scattered Messiah said:


> Yeah, a pity.
> 
> Plus, unfortunately enough, we know nothing about the state of the designs
> (at what stage is the IR, how far are the prototypes, ect...I mean, part of the product obviously exists)
> or the backlog of orders.
> 
> So it's pretty much impossible to figure out, how much startup/revival capital you need (for exapmple to create an efficient production process).
> 
> However the product(s) themselves would sell, I am quite sure.
> The Preamp, for example would pretty much be without real competition, but in a niche, where I guess there's enough demand to get things going.



It would take a lawyer to really check things out before making any moves. I had one in the family, until my aunt divorced him. Unfortunately (for him) he's terminally ill so there wouldn't be much point in asking him. 

Even when he was healthy he would have been too cheap to offer a discount. When my cousin (his son) was getting divorced my ex-uncle gave him a DIY divorce book! Of course, he also owned a nice, ocean-worthy boat to go to the Bahamas on . . .


----------



## Alder

Got a message from some random when discussing Invictus Guitars/boutiques that haven't delivered on Misha's Facebook:

_"Dar is not done, you will see some really amazing stuff come from that camp in the new year. Especially now that Dar has business backers."_

I'll consider "amazing" actually shipping the amps that people have paid for and making the planned equipment materialise, but if this is true, it's interesting at least. In spite of everything, from what I've read people seem happy with the amps when they arrived, and these are potentially good products - it'll be awesome if they can actually get their shit sorted.


----------



## petervindel

But how does he know for sure? 
Is it just a rumor, does he know Mike, is he one of the "backers"? 

I would love to see things turn around, but it'll take a lot for me to send any money DARs way...


----------



## JohnnyCNote

For all of the stress and grief inflicted on DAR owners, they should really go beyond simple refunds. However, it would take a lot to convince me to give them a try, like models would have to already be available for immediate shipment. Then the main concern would be if DAR will be around in the event a repair is necessary.

But first things first, let's see if anything is really going to happen. This is definitely one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" things, if anything ever were . . .


----------



## signalgrey

JohnnyCNote said:


> For all of the stress and grief inflicted on DAR owners, they should really go beyond simple refunds. However, it would take a lot to convince me to give them a try, like models would have to already be available for immediate shipment. Then the main concern would be if DAR will be around in the event a repair is necessary.
> 
> But first things first, let's see if anything is really going to happen. This is definitely one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" things, if anything ever were . . .




I agree, and honestly, I offered him 2-3 different options. Ill take a forza, Ill take a Tuzzia Ill TAKE ANYTHING! I just want my money, or something for my money. ANYTHING...

nothing in response.

im still waiting. for anything. a murmer. ANYTHING.


----------



## Larrikin666

Interestingly enough, I'm taking a trip to Palo Alto in June for my girlfriend's Standford graduation. I might have to drop by DAR and see what's poppin.


----------



## Alder

petervindel said:


> But how does he know for sure?
> Is it just a rumor, does he know Mike, is he one of the "backers"?
> 
> I would love to see things turn around, but it'll take a lot for me to send any money DARs way...



No idea, dude. But yeah, if it's just another set of ideas for products DAR is basically done and the resale price for the - what, six? - FBM-100s out there will skyrocket.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

Larrikin666 said:


> Interestingly enough, I'm taking a trip to Palo Alto in June for my girlfriend's Standford graduation. I might have to drop by DAR and see what's poppin.



Don't forget to check out the place and numbers I listed here: Possible Lead


----------



## wlfers

A wild Mike appears!


----------



## JohnnyCNote

athawulf said:


> A wild Mike appears!



You beat me to it. I was just about to post it myself . . .

PS: I found I was removed from the exclusive member list for DAR AMPLIFICATION. I was too distraught to notice that Mike G. is an admin. I had some crazy idea that the page was started by DAR _owners_, but now it makes sense. Fredrik Thordendal is another admin, besides being a DAR shill. I couldn't determine if the same goes for Jocke Skog.

Anyway, I really couldn't care less. Maybe Mike has already figured out that I'm far from anyone he should really be concerned about. My concern comes from a feeling of solidarity with other guitar players and musicians in general. Maybe some day someone will pass on some information that I'll find to be very useful. It's the old Karma thing, which was also observed by Newton, who described it in his Third Law, _To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction_ . . .


----------



## Larrikin666

From Mike:

*Mike Giovannotto
*

* Hi Folks,

Mike here from DAR. I want to give my sincere apologies for being absent from the forums and communication channels lately, been completely head down in gear and working through builds. (Good news is that Im sending out a batch of 3 FBM-100s this week including one to Sweden. Each one is truly crushing, you guys are going to love them.)

During my time away from the forums, Ive also given serious thought as to how to best to handle the wait list given our long production times. I decided I need a simpler and less stressful (for both you and me) ordering process. Heres the new policy: I dont want any advance deposits and no payment will be due for any product until its ready to ship and you may cancel anytime prior to shipping. This policy applies to everyone, so people who already sent us a deposit will be getting a refund (Ill be contacting you individually starting this week), but you deposit people wont lose your positions on the wait list.

Im going to work my hardest to get FBM-100s delivered as quickly as I can. These beasts are a huge challenge to build to my maniacally high standards. Theres over 4,000 connections, over 1,500 unique parts and I hand place most of them under a microscope. Then once built up, theres hours of voicing, listening, and tuning each amp before Ill let it leave my shop. There aint no shortcuts to making this tone.
Finally, just wanted to say that Im honored and humbled to be developing amp technology thats on the cutting edge of metal and to bring it to a bunch of guys who will do evil things with them.

Thanks,
Mike G

*


----------



## Wookieslayer

oh shi


----------



## Zado

Larrikin666 said:


> From Mike:
> 
> *Mike Giovannotto
> *
> 
> * Hi Folks,
> 
> Mike here from DAR. I want to give my sincere apologies for being absent from the forums and communication channels lately, been completely head down in gear and working through builds. (Good news is that Im sending out a batch of 3 FBM-100s this week including one to Sweden. Each one is truly crushing, you guys are going to love them.)
> 
> During my time away from the forums, Ive also given serious thought as to how to best to handle the wait list given our long production times. I decided I need a simpler and less stressful (for both you and me) ordering process. Heres the new policy: I dont want any advance deposits and no payment will be due for any product until its ready to ship and you may cancel anytime prior to shipping. This policy applies to everyone, so people who already sent us a deposit will be getting a refund (Ill be contacting you individually starting this week), but you deposit people wont lose your positions on the wait list.
> 
> Im going to work my hardest to get FBM-100s delivered as quickly as I can. These beasts are a huge challenge to build to my maniacally high standards. Theres over 4,000 connections, over 1,500 unique parts and I hand place most of them under a microscope. Then once built up, theres hours of voicing, listening, and tuning each amp before Ill let it leave my shop. There aint no shortcuts to making this tone.
> Finally, just wanted to say that Im honored and humbled to be developing amp technology thats on the cutting edge of metal and to bring it to a bunch of guys who will do evil things with them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike G
> 
> *


----------



## Pav

So are people now going to be looking for refunds or holding out in hopes that production time picks up?


----------



## in-pursuit

I'm honestly considering placing an order.


----------



## Veldar

in-pursuit said:


> I'm honestly considering placing an order.



Same here, has one of the 4 people in the world tried one with a bass?


----------



## meambobbo

nice to hear some humility and a more sensible policy from Mike. If he actually does refund all the deposits, then hopefully he can clear his name and DAR will be judged for its tone, not the frustration of obtaining one. Still curious about the pre-amp/cab simulator - I was always way more interested in that than the FBM head.


----------



## wlfers

He's strolled through "humble and honest" a few times already. It will be interesting to see if he follows through, and also if he's including signalgrey in his list of people to refund. He's always been less responsive to those more vocal about his business practices (for lack of a better term). I wonder if those who have said "mean" things about him on facebook will get their gear/money.


----------



## Wookieslayer

athawulf said:


> He's strolled through "humble and honest" a few times already. It will be interesting to see if he follows through, and also if he's* including signalgrey *in his list of people to refund. He's always been less responsive to those more vocal about his business practices (for lack of a better term). I wonder if those who have said "mean" things about him on facebook will get their gear/money.




Wasn't signalgrey one of the first to make an order? I hope he gets that shit resolved soon. I just looked at page one of this thread and it started 2 years ago.


----------



## sevenstringj




----------



## JohnnyCNote

I'd be very cautious about sending any money. Last week he was dropping heavy hints about an "investor" and to expect some sort of "announcement" in the beginning of this week. I saw no mention of any "investor", only the same "I'm so sorry, I'm swamped" line he's offered before. He expects his big change of policy to be the answer to all of the past problems.

If he's really solved whatever problems at his end that led to dozens of customers to have the sickening feeling that they've been screwed out of their money, then it's important to see if it represents a permanent solution to this sorry state of affairs. Some people had been counting on using their modified amps in the studio, and now have had to scramble around, frantically looking for a replacement.

He's obviously able to design a very unique amp, but he's totally incapable of managing a business such as he's had. I'd strongly urge anyone to wait until the management issue has been resolved before risking several thousand dollars on an amp for which there's absolutely no guarantee will ever be delivered . . .


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Veldar said:


> Same here, has one of the 4 people in the world tried one with a bass?



Yes, it fucking rules!


----------



## 3074326

He says all the right things in his statement. Unfortunately, what he's said hasn't exactly lined up with what he's done. 

I take that back. I lied. He has simply said nothing and done nothing. 

If he lives up to his statement, he might have himself a successful company. Lots of trust to be earned back. Fuck, I'm following this little story and I have no interest in the products. That can't be good!


----------



## Veldar

Alcoholocaust said:


> Yes, it fucking rules!


Do you have any sound clips and if your band comes to Newcastle you should let me try it


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I'll definitely make some sound clips, due to start re-amping next week and i'll film some stuff.
You're welcome to try it when we're over your way (mid-year i'd say)


----------



## EOT

Veldar said:


> Same here, has one of the 4 people in the world tried one with a bass?



Have you not heard the new Acacia Strain?


----------



## Veldar

EOT said:


> Have you not heard the new Acacia Strain?



Um, no.


----------



## EOT

Veldar said:


> Um, no.



Check it out. It's pretty heavy. Alcoholocaust's band sounds pretty sweet too! More technical as well.


----------



## Speculum Speculorum

Well, this makes me hopeful. If all things do turn out, somebody who gets one should really consider parting ways with it for a few week and sending it out to Fractal. It sounds like when FW 10 breaks, amp modeling is going to really be blowing up, making modeling this DAR possible.


----------



## dreamermind

Mike's message from facebook.



> Hi Folks,
> 
> Mike here from DAR. I want to give my sincere apologies for being absent from the forums and communication channels lately, been completely head down in gear and working through builds. (Good news is that Im sending out a batch of 3 FBM-100s this week including one to Sweden. Each one is truly crushing, you guys are going to love them.)
> 
> During my time away from the forums, Ive also given serious thought as to how to best to handle the wait list given our long production times. I decided I need a simpler and less stressful (for both you and me) ordering process. Heres the new policy: I dont want any advance deposits and no payment will be due for any product until its ready to ship and you may cancel anytime prior to shipping. This policy applies to everyone, so people who already sent us a deposit will be getting a refund (Ill be contacting you individually starting this week), but you deposit people wont lose your positions on the wait list.
> 
> Im going to work my hardest to get FBM-100s delivered as quickly as I can. These beasts are a huge challenge to build to my maniacally high standards. Theres over 4,000 connections, over 1,500 unique parts and I hand place most of them under a microscope. Then once built up, theres hours of voicing, listening, and tuning each amp before Ill let it leave my shop. There aint no shortcuts to making this tone.
> 
> Finally, just wanted to say that Im honored and humbled to be developing amp technology thats on the cutting edge of metal and to bring it to a bunch of guys who will do evil things with them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike G


----------



## kevdes93

interesting development


----------



## Larrikin666

So what should I buy with this imaginary $750 that I'll be getting back soon? Maybe a unicorn.....spaceship ride to Mars......?


----------



## Veldar

EOT said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by Veldar
> 
> Um, no.
> 
> Check it out. It's pretty heavy. Alcoholocaust's band sounds pretty sweet too! More technical as well.



So does there bass player use on or guitarist?



_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## EOT

Veldar said:


> So does there bass player use on or guitarist?



Guitarist... Are you asking what a bass would sound like through the DAR? If so, I'm not sure. I haven't tried it.


----------



## Veldar

EOT said:


> Guitarist... Are you asking what a bass would sound like through the DAR? If so, I'm not sure. I haven't tried it.



Yes I'd love to know what a bass sounded like through one with the mids cranked, like a modern lemmy.


----------



## signalgrey

dreamermind said:


> Mike's message from facebook.



wow. i SERIOUSLY hope this is true.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Looks like Jocke Skog is getting his.









> It's like knowing your daughter is off on a date with a pron-star. Jocke, go gentile on my baby


----------



## leonardo7

Mike emailed me this week that theres a few of these set to ship on Tue or Wed, then some more which are spoken for should be ready in roughly 90 days, then its gonna be at least 8 months before others get the opportunity to own one. So based on the emails it appears as though all hope is not lost entirely


----------



## EOT

leonardo7 said:


> Mike emailed me this week that theres a few of these set to ship on Tue or Wed, then some more which are spoken for should be ready in roughly 90 days, then its gonna be at least 8 months before others get the opportunity to own one. So based on the emails it appears as though all hope is not lost entirely



So are you getting one?


----------



## leonardo7

EOT said:


> So are you getting one?



I knew that would be asked. First of all, I dont want to be in the middle of this and have no clue whats even going on. My contact with him is limited to the following. I first contacted him in March of '12 cause I live nearby but never managed to make it out to test one out. But he did put my name down on the list with no guarantee. I have not paid a deposit. I have patiently emailed him a few times here and there asking what the scoop is and asking how its going and if there will ever be a chance of me getting one. He replied to me last week basically asking if I still wanted to drop by for play test, I asked when i can get one and he basically said once he finally has satisfied everyone in front of me in line and who have paid deposits then maybe I will have a shot but theres no time guarantee as of right now. Then he told me theres like 3 or so going out this week and then another small batch in roughly 90 days.


----------



## EOT

Ah I see. Well I would definitely recommend checking one out if you get the chance. One of the more unique amps I've had the chance to play. Really excels with low tunings.


----------



## asher

Man, I really, really hope he sticks to what he says. The clips that oniduder? I think put up sounded _fantastic_, and I feel for everyone who's been caught up with their money in this.


----------



## leonardo7

I really hope he comes through for everyone. I do find it interesting and perhaps promising that he emailed me the same week he posted that to his facebook.



EOT said:


> Ah I see. Well I would definitely recommend checking one out if you get the chance. One of the more unique amps I've had the chance to play. Really excels with low tunings.



Man thats exactly why I want one. This is one of those things that Im willing go into blindly. But Im not paying a dime until its ready to ship. Actually Im gonna go pick it up in person. I will probably bring a KxK or Mayones 8 and plug in first while Im at it. But its gonna be a while before I even get the chance to purchase one, providing he even comes through


----------



## JohnnyCNote

*IF *he manages to get caught up and is able to produce amps for new customers, I'd strongly suggest looking into a way to hold a deposit in escrow. That way he'll know who's really serious about buying one but he won't be able to take the money until he delivers the goods. 

If he can do this, he has a chance of repairing some of the damage he's done to himself. Speaking only for myself, I'd be extremely reluctant to buy anything from him. As of this time the only DAR amp I'd get would be a used one. Even if I did purchase a new DAR, there's still the question of servicing in the future . . .


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Can't wait for Jocke to get his!
He's mixing our album in the coming weeks...


----------



## signalgrey

HOLY FUCK! he responded to my email! This is looking good.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

signalgrey said:


> HOLY FUCK! he responded to my email! This is looking good.


----------



## guy in latvia

Trying to salvage their reputation, I really hope it works out, I'm sure they're fantastic amps!


----------



## MF_Kitten

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



It still amazes me that such an obvious typo was allowed to pass through to the final game. Were there even any developers involved?! It's like they just made all the assets and threw it into a shoddy chinese "MAEK A GAEM" application and shipped whatever came out!

And then one of them went on to make The WarZ, which went HORRIBLY.

Anyway, how long has it been since the DAR mess started now? I have to give it to the guy, it really looks like he has just been keeping it up, and doing good work rather than fast work. He probably won't let shit leave his shop, I'm guessing. Prototypes excluded.


----------



## asher

Which while admirable and understandable (and those things _do_ look complicated as fuck) doesn't excuse the errors in communications.

But hey, preacher, choir, glad things look to be righting themselves (knock on wood).


----------



## Ben.Last

JohnnyCNote said:


> *IF *he manages to get caught up and is able to produce amps for new customers, I'd strongly suggest looking into a way to hold a deposit in escrow. That way he'll know who's really serious about buying one but he won't be able to take the money until he delivers the goods.



I believe he said that he'll be taking orders without any deposit from here on out.


----------



## myampslouder

That is what he said. I actually just went ahead and added myself to the list. Now that a deposit isn't required it's not as risky and after having the opportunity to play oniduder's FBM I believe it's worth the wait.


----------



## 3074326

signalgrey said:


> HOLY FUCK! he responded to my email! This is looking good.



 Fuck yeah, dude.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

Lern2swim said:


> I believe he said that he'll be taking orders without any deposit from here on out.



The best outcome would be that this whole episode was a large bump in the road and going forward there will be absolutely no problems. Even without the recent phuque-ups, I've shifted my focus to Dynamo Amps as I think they'd come closer to what I'm looking for . . .


----------



## Unknown Doodl3.2

FWIW I emailed him this morning asking questions and he got back to me within half an hour...

Put myself on the list as well... No deposit, nothing to lose


----------



## HRC51

This has to be one of the coolest amps to come out in a long time.


----------



## DISTORT6

HRC51 said:


> This has to be one of the coolest amps to come out in a long time.



Depends on your definition of "come out" and "long time".


----------



## MetalThrasher

I emailed Mike a few days ago in regards to being put on the waiting list for the preamp pedal and I got a response. I'm on the list no money down. I know it's going to be a long wait but the pedal really interests me. I wish all of you the best of luck who are waiting for the amps. They sound killer!


----------



## DestroyerD

went ahead and email mike! he messaged back and i got added to the list! he quoted 9 months wait but who knows! either way im on the list and will hopefully get one eventually!


----------



## sylcfh

JohnnyCNote said:


> The best outcome would be that this whole episode was a large bump in the road and going forward there will be absolutely no problems. Even without the recent phuque-ups, I've shifted my focus to Dynamo Amps as I think they'd come closer to what I'm looking for . . .







Looks like a cool cab. 

But what is the point of a 105lb 2x12?

And it's only 8 inches shorter than a FatBottom 4x12...


----------



## Sepultorture

sylcfh said:


> Looks like a cool cab.
> 
> But what is the point of a 105lb 2x12?
> 
> And it's only 8 inches shorter than a FatBottom 4x12...



if those are evm12L black labels you can blame a big chunk of that weight on the speakers, they are huge magnets on there


----------



## sylcfh

Sepultorture said:


> if those are evm12L black labels you can blame a big chunk of that weight on the speakers, they are huge magnets on there





Says the magnets are 16lbs pounds each. Cab would still be around 70lbs empty.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

sylcfh said:


> Looks like a cool cab.
> 
> But what is the point of a 105lb 2x12?
> 
> And it's only 8 inches shorter than a FatBottom 4x12...



Sorry for the delay, I was unavailable for a bit. I'd suggest checking out that cabinet's page on Dynamo's site: GTS 212. He explains how the design came about. I emailed him about it and he claims that this cabinet puts out as much sound as most 412's, if not more because it's a much newer design and the speakers are a lot more efficient. I like the idea of being able to achieve the same volume levels with a smaller cabinet, as long as I can get someone to move it for me . 

I used to have a 412 Peavey loaded with Black Widows, and that was _heavy_! In fact, it destroyed a set of casters I'd installed. Crushed the bearings, which fell out and left me with metal rubbing on metal. But once I fired it up it was worth the inconvenience (and the injuries) . . .


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Larrikin666 said:


> So what should I buy with this imaginary $750 that I'll be getting back soon? Maybe a unicorn.....spaceship ride to Mars......?



Yeah...so....what is the price looking like?


----------



## Splinterhead

I played one of those Dynamo rigs at the NY Amp show. 

Two words...

Holy Shit.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

Splinterhead said:


> I played one of those Dynamo rigs at the NY Amp show.
> 
> Two words...
> 
> Holy Shit.



That's what I said when I saw the picture and read the specs. Which model did you try? Dynamo may not be quite as radical as DAR, but they are succeeding where DAR has failed, namely in management. I most confess, however, that I do like the look of the DAR's with the huge power tubes in front. Ascetically they have an edge on Dynamo, but I'm splitting hairs . . .


----------



## HighGain510

Should probably divert your Dynamo talk to it's own thread so as not to further clutter the DAR thread for the guys who are returning here looking for updates to the actual DAR amps and production times/issues.


----------



## JohnnyCNote

HighGain510 said:


> Should probably divert your Dynamo talk to it's own thread so as not to further clutter the DAR thread for the guys who are returning here looking for updates to the actual DAR amps and production times/issues.



Okay, here goes.

Yo, the Dynamo Amps discussion has been moved here: Dynamo Amps


----------



## myampslouder

Anybody got any news on how things are moving along?


----------



## signalgrey

Just wanted to let everyone know:

Mike sent me my refund. After a year+ of waiting for the refund and all the waiting for the amp in the first place...adds up to almost 3 years of waiting.

Im glad I got the money back and I think that Mike has done the right thing by hitting the rest button and starting over. Ive said it several times before and Ill say it again here. I think Mike has an awesome product and I sincerely hope this all gets straightened out. I know Id still love a DAR at some point.

Honestly I would fucking kill for a 30 watt version of the Tuzzia or Aria...


----------



## Krucifixtion

signalgrey said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know:
> 
> Mike sent me my refund. After a year+ of waiting for the refund and all the waiting for the amp in the first place...adds up to almost 3 years of waiting.




Finally Bro!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Legion

Anyone know anything about the DAR FBM that was supposed to be out in PEDAL form? Pricing? Does he even intend to make that?


----------



## wlfers

It was priced at $890 USD when preorders were open. Who knows if it's going to change, especially with some of the proposed features mike had in mind to add to it. Now on the subject of if it is still happening, not sure. It is far off in the future anyway, I'm guessing the plans aren't scrapped because as a PX preorder I have not been contacted about a refund yet- maybe I'll email him.


----------



## MetalThrasher

athawulf said:


> It was priced at $890 USD when preorders were open. Who knows if it's going to change, especially with some of the proposed features mike had in mind to add to it. Now on the subject of if it is still happening, not sure. It is far off in the future anyway, I'm guessing the plans aren't scrapped because as a PX preorder I have not been contacted about a refund yet- maybe I'll email him.



I hope this pedal comes out. I emailed Mike a few months ago and I am on the waiting list for this no money down. Finger's crossed!


----------



## signalgrey

athawulf said:


> It was priced at $890 USD when preorders were open. Who knows if it's going to change, especially with some of the proposed features mike had in mind to add to it. Now on the subject of if it is still happening, not sure. It is far off in the future anyway, I'm guessing the plans aren't scrapped because as a PX preorder I have not been contacted about a refund yet- maybe I'll email him.



you really should. He is much better with emailing back and all that.


----------



## Veldar

Bump, Anyone got one yet? or still waiting.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Nope no new ones :/


----------



## capoeiraesp

People are too distracted by a bigger scam.


----------



## Scattered Messiah

It's sad to see, that there was no change :-/
I'd loved to own one of the PX'es time come, but the way this is going I don't even see them reaching ""production"" status unfortunately.
[the rest has already been said, like Mike getting external help would improve the situation, lack of communication making it look like a scam, etc]

Unfair as it sounds, I hope Mike sells the designs of to some company with better project management -.-

Fortunately my amp gas is cured for the next few years


----------



## Veldar

capoeiraesp said:


> People are too distracted by a bigger scam.



Which one?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Veldar said:


> Which one?



You proba*b*ly will find out if you sea*r*ch around, *j*ust keep an eye out.


----------



## oniduder

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You proba*b*ly will find out if you sea*r*ch around, *j*ust keep an eye out.



i see what you did there, *after you explained it to me, derpa


----------



## SSK0909

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You proba*b*ly will find out if you sea*r*ch around, *j*ust keep an eye out.



BRJ?

I dont get it. Que the sad face


----------



## Veldar

SSK0909 said:


> BRJ?
> 
> I dont get it. Que the sad face



Same here.


----------



## oniduder

Veldar said:


> Same here.



BRJ, he bolded the letters BRJ, but it was too subtle for me and/or my compooper monitor so i had to ask

thansk!


----------



## Veldar

oniduder said:


> BRJ, he bolded the letters BRJ, but it was too subtle for me and/or my compooper monitor so i had to ask
> 
> thansk!



Yep I get it now, before I only saw the B and J.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Hell, I'm sure a few guys would rather a BJ than a BRJ.


----------



## oniduder

capoeiraesp said:


> Hell, I'm sure a few guys would rather a BJ than a BRJ.



i saw that cumming a mile ago, hehe


----------



## SSK0909

SSK0909 said:


> BRJ?
> 
> I dont get it. Que the sad face


 
Oh... I guess it's short for Bernie Rico. WE GETSES IT NOW PRECIOUS!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm gonna quit doing stuff like that now.


----------



## getaway_fromme

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm gonna quit doing stuff like that now.



You should ALWAYS do stuff like that. Just don't elaborate.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Buy Axe-Fx or Kemper. Tone Match or Profile DAR.....done.


----------



## EOT

Krucifixtion said:


> Buy Axe-Fx or Kemper. Tone Match or Profile DAR.....done.



I'm sure there's a way to get pretty close. But I haven't found it yet. Especially in the "feel" department.


----------



## Ben.Last

Krucifixtion said:


> Buy Axe-Fx or Kemper. Tone Match or Profile DAR.....done.



As has been pointed out, the problem there is the sheer variety of tones the DAR was meant to offer. Sure, someone could go to town with one and profile the gamut of sounds the thing could get. That'd be a lot of effort though.


----------



## Larrikin666

Lern2swim said:


> As has been pointed out, the problem there is the sheer variety of tones the DAR was meant to offer. Sure, someone could go to town with one and profile the gamut of sounds the thing could get. That'd be a lot of effort though.



It's doable. Someone managed to knock out like 80 profiles of the ENGL SE, and that amp has a ridiculous amount of tone shaping options. Honestly, I want someone like The Amp Factory to be the one doing the profile though. I'd rather give them money since I know it would come out right.


----------



## MetalThrasher

I really hope DAR comes through with all these amps, pedals, etc! I'm on the waiting list for the preamp pedal and I would be stoked if this actually comes out sometime in the future!


----------



## Veldar

^ Ha I get it.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I tried a couple of times to profile the DAR and just couldn't get it sounding right.
The kemper didn't like the FBM's noisegate and without it the amp was too noisy.
Could of been user error though as i only used the kemper once or twice.

I'm actually considering selling my FBM to fund some multiscale builds...


----------



## capoeiraesp

Do it!!!!


----------



## Veldar

Alcoholocaust said:


> I tried a couple of times to profile the DAR and just couldn't get it sounding right.
> The kemper didn't like the FBM's noisegate and without it the amp was too noisy.
> Could of been user error though as i only used the kemper once or twice.
> 
> I'm actually considering selling my FBM to fund some multiscale builds...



I'll give you $10 AUD for it.


----------



## guitaristguy20

Veldar said:


> Bump, Anyone got one yet? or still waiting.



I have a friend selling his FBM-100. Serial #2. Send me a private message and i'll PM you back the link. I posted the link earlier but someone deleted it. So, no more posting of the link.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

I have one of these suckers for sale under the Gear for sale section.
Could be worthwhile for anyone in Australia, the rest of the world might be a bit pricey to ship.


----------



## Veldar

Alcoholocaust said:


> I have one of these suckers for sale under the Gear for sale section.
> Could be worthwhile for anyone in Australia, the rest of the world might be a bit pricey to ship.



I really want one for our band but there is no way we could afford it....


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## wlfers

Necrobump: The DAR facebook group has been taken over and people are sharing their order/deposit information in hopes to finally do something about this

https://www.facebook.com/groups/151990391551774/


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Goddamn, someone is out $20,000. What the .....


----------



## wlfers

Yeah.. I think he's a small shop and was to be a dealer. So unfortunate, and puts in perspective how much people lost- I'm only out of a PX 35% deposit.


----------



## Krucifixtion

athawulf said:


> Yeah.. I think he's a small shop and was to be a dealer. So unfortunate, and puts in perspective how much people lost- I'm only out of a PX 35% deposit.



Wow........is all I gotta say about this still. I had forgotten about most of this.

I can't even believe I actually got my deposit back on the PX at this point. There's no way he's going to actually say anything on Facebook though. Although, if everyone submits their info on when they gave deposits and if they still kept any receipt of deposit or purchase they might be able to pursue some legal action. It's probably going to be a huge PITA, but if he's not going to do anything about it I would at least build the case and let someone who knows a good attorney work it out.


----------



## Alcoholocaust

Such a shame... I really feel for the guys that are owed amps/money.
He had some great gear and ideas.


----------



## StevenC

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Goddamn, someone is out $20,000. What the .....



He's a friend of mine who owns a shop here in NI. I try not to mention the word DAR or talk about a certain Meshuggah song.


----------



## sylcfh

It's pretty hard to get money back in court settlements, but you'd think $20k is enough to land a guy in jail.


----------

