# Any solution to double stop bending on floyd rose



## Rykilla (Apr 6, 2019)

I guess it is a pretty common side effect when we do double stop bending on floyd rose, because once we bend the string, the floyd rose will be tipped forward, rendering all the other strings flat. Is there any solution to that? How do you guys handle this side effect?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 6, 2019)

A Hipshot Tremsetter, ESP Arming Adjuster, any "dive only" product like Tremol-No or Backstop, as well as any ZPS equipped Ibanez can be set to aid in double stop bends, but the trade off is going to be limiting the movement of the bridge overall, by either rendering it "dive only" (no pull-up on the bar) or adding tension to the system so it can't move as easily.


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## Rykilla (Apr 6, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> A Hipshot Tremsetter, ESP Arming Adjuster, any "dive only" product like Tremol-No or Backstop, as well as any ZPS equipped Ibanez can be set to aid in double stop bends, but the trade off is going to be limiting the movement of the bridge overall, by either rendering it "dive only" (no pull-up on the bar) or adding tension to the system so it can't move as easily.



I am thinking of having 5 springs at the back, as I have observed in some of the high-end floyd rose guitar, such as PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose. I guess that will lead to the "adding tension to the system" you mentioned. Do you think it may work?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 6, 2019)

Rykilla said:


> I am thinking of having 5 springs at the back, as I have observed in some of the high-end floyd rose guitar, such as PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose. I guess that will lead to the "adding tension to the system" you mentioned. Do you think it may work?



The issue with just adding springs is that you'll need to install something that butts up to the trem's sustain block so that it can remain properly level, which will give you a dive only setup. 

Like this:






As you know, a fully floating trem (one that can both dive and pull) needs to be set level. When you just increase spring tension (backside tension), you need to compensate to remain balanced. Since adding that much string tension (frontside tension) isn't possible you need to put the block in the way.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

https://sophiatremolos.com/collections/sophia-2-22-complete-series

Problem solved? Enjoy!


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## Edika (Apr 6, 2019)

The easiest way is to bend the other string slightly too.


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## Rykilla (Apr 6, 2019)

Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.

Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?

Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

Rykilla said:


> Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.
> 
> Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?
> 
> Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?



If your trem is dive only (like EVH or PRS and Fender that are set to dive only) they usually have 4 or even 5 strings which will prevent trem dive with string bends and vibrato. Otherwise, all floating trems will experience this to some degree, depending on nature of the bend (# of strings and how many steps).


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 6, 2019)

Rykilla said:


> Thank you all for the inputs! I will definitely give it a shot for all the suggestions.
> 
> Last quick question: while I was waiting for you guys' response, I actually googled it a little bit. It seems that this double stop bending problem not only occurs in Floyd Rose, but also in most of the floating tremolo system. Is PRS tremolo considered floating? If yes, then this double stop bending problem can also occur on PRS tremolo?
> 
> Also, I recalled when I was doing double stop bends on my MIJ Fender Strat, I could barely notice that the upper string went flat. If I am not wrong, Fender tremolo is somewhat similar to PRS tremolo, right?



Any trem that dives (lowers the pitch) is susceptible to being brought out of pitch by bending the strings, which is analogous to adding string tension, which as we all know pulls trems forward. 

Trems that don't pull up, or raise the pitch, rest on the top of the guitar. Because you don't have to worry about balancing the tension, just providing at least enough to keep the bridge grounded to the top, it's common to add much more spring tension, which counteracts the pull from bends.


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## trem licking (Apr 6, 2019)

You can adjust your technique to compensate too... By applying pressure with the side of your hand to the bridge slightly as you bend. Practice for this would be do the double stop bend while applying this technique, and only play the non bent string. This will give you a gauge as to how much pressure to apply. Only takes a small bit of practice to nail it.
I just dont worry about it, personally. Still sounds in tune enough without doing anything about it (shrug)


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## Lorcan Ward (Apr 6, 2019)

When you do a double stop bend hold the whammy bar with your hand so the bridge can't move.

or

Use the whammy bar to pull up to keep the other string going flat, this requires a lot of experience knowing how far to bend the string when the whammy is pulling too.


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## Rykilla (Apr 6, 2019)

This is a concluding thread about my problem, so that in the future if people google this thread, they will know exactly what I have found out.

My original problem (not posted here) was to decide whether I should choose a floyd rose or a PRS bridge. As I "research" on the Internet, it seems that some people are having double stop bending problem with their floyd rose. That worries me. Today, as I drove down to a guitar store and actually tried the floyd rose guitar myself (shamefully, I did not have experience of that until today), I finally managed to solve all of my problems.

I tried 2 guitars available there: one is PRS Custom 24 SE with PRS bridge, and another is Jackson Pro Soloist SL2H with a floyd rose (not original I believe, but can be considered close). So, the problem of double stop bending did occur on both bridges, even though it was more noticeable on the floyd rose than on the PRS bridge. As I bent the string and fret another one, I did notice that the fretted string went flat on the floyd rose. On the other hand, I needed to pay additional attention to hear the flat sound on the PRS bridge. 

HOWEVER, this problem of double stop bending is very easy to solve. Let us focus on the floyd rose, as it is more "severe". When I play the guitar, I always rest my palm on the sixth string (for cleaner play, and will lift it up slightly if I need to play the sixth string), and I notice that I put my palm right on the pivot of the floyd rose. As many of you may have already known, the floyd rose is pivoted on two bolts such that we can do diving and pulling up. If we rest our palm right on the pivots, we will not disrupt the balance of the bridge. Image sitting in the center of a seesaw, where the seesaw is supported. We are not going to make the seesaw tip to any direction in a perfect world (in guitar bridges, perfect world means perfect setting). Then, as I bend the string, the bridge will be slightly (really slightly) pulled towards the string, making the strings flat (still, very slightly). Now, all I need to do is to rest my wrist on the bridge to balance the slight tipping. In fact, what I mean by "resting my wrist" is basically letting my wrist touch the bridge, and that will balance the tipping, making the string go back to normal tension. With a little bit adapting and practice, it will be very simple. Similar method can be used on the PRS bridge (or the Fender tremolo).

An additional piece of information is that the floyd rose in the Jackson only has 3 springs. I believe that some floyd rose will have 5 springs at the back (PRS Custom 24 Floyd Rose), making the problem even minor. Moreover, while it seems that, based on the tech person in the store, PRS bridge tends to have a little bit more sustain than floyd rose, this difference in sustain is really hard to notice. He mentioned that people used machine to kind of find out the difference, and even then the experiment may not be the most unbiased in terms of science. He admitted that he could not tell the difference, and I personally do not have professional ears, either. The truth is that many people do not as well, and the difference is not important at all. Think of some of the best music made by players using floyd rose guitar, such as Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. At the end, I am going to choose a floyd rose guitar, because the two previously mentioned guitarists are some of my favorite. Considering that maybe one day I would like to play their songs, I believe having a floyd rose is a better choice for me.

So yeah, this is a lengthy yet, I believe, responsible and honest response I can possibly make. Thank you for all the people helping me here. Kudo to all of you.


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## Rykilla (Apr 6, 2019)

Well, Steve Vai and Joe Satriani are using Ibanez, so technically they are not using floyd rose, but I guess the design of Ibanez locking tremolo is pretty close to that of floyd rose, at least when this type of problem is concerned.

Additionally, when I thought about my method of solving double stop bending problem, I realize if I bend the sixth string, the method may not work, because I will lift my palm, and thus my wrist will rest on the guitar body instead of the bridge. However, I do not think I use double stop bending technique on the sixth string, at least not throughout my journey of playing guitars. If somehow we need to do this on sixth string, I think then bending the fretted string slightly to adjust the flat sound is sufficient. Still, I can hardly think of any situation and songs I need to do double stop bending on sixth string. Do you guys ever bend the sixth string while simultaneously fretting other strings?


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## laxu (Apr 7, 2019)

The Super-V Maglok works well for this purpose. It's essentially a little tube with a pair of magnets in it that helps the guitar stay in tune for double stops. I put one in my G&L Legacy and it does work. My only complaint is that it is ridiculously expensive for what it is, got mine on sale thankfully.


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## Humbuck (Apr 7, 2019)

I have a Mag Lok in 2 guitars. It functioned great in both for a while but had since failed in one when the magnet came loose.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 7, 2019)

The Mag Lok is basically a Hipshot Tremsetter with magnets instead of springs...and a much less cumbersome install.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 7, 2019)

Do you "feel" the detent in the Mag Lok when the magnets engage?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 8, 2019)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Do you "feel" the detent in the Mag Lok when the magnets engage?



Yes, but it's very mild. If you weren't looking for it you'd probably assume it was just the trem slidding into zero on the studs.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 8, 2019)

Not to be a jerk... but maybe buy a hardtail or dive-only trem guitar? Do you have the need to bend a string while fretting another, and then also using up-trem in the same song? Again, not being a jerk... but there is a reason why those guitars exist. EVH is a prolific trem wanker and there is a reason he uses dive-only trem guitars 99% of the time, but then also owns a Steinberger trans-trem for songs like Summer Nights and Fire in the Hole.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 8, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yes, but it's very mild. If you weren't looking for it you'd probably assume it was just the trem slidding into zero on the studs.



Interesting. The extreme "feel" is why I didn't like the tremsetter, I might give this a try on a future build.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 8, 2019)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Interesting. The extreme "feel" is why I didn't like the tremsetter, I might give this a try on a future build.



It's still there, but I'd say it's worth a shot. I think everything is softer than the original Tremsetters.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 8, 2019)

The tremsetter felt like a double hinged restaurant kitchen door!


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## devastone (Apr 8, 2019)

A couple of things, this "effect" will be the same on a Floyd, PRS, or any other floating trem guitar assuming they have the same gauge of strings and the trem springs have the same spring rate. Heavier trem springs will lessen the effect even if the bridge floats because the spring rate is higher, meaning it will pull back harder for every mm (or pick your favorite unit) you try to stretch it. 

FWIW, Vai's Evo has an Ibanez trem stabilizer in it. Not sure how it gets flutters on it, maybe he uses another guitar for flutter-y stuff.


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## c7spheres (Apr 8, 2019)

trem licking said:


> You can adjust your technique to compensate too... By applying pressure with the side of your hand to the bridge slightly as you bend. Practice for this would be do the double stop bend while applying this technique, and only play the non bent string. This will give you a gauge as to how much pressure to apply. Only takes a small bit of practice to nail it.
> I just dont worry about it, personally. Still sounds in tune enough without doing anything about it (shrug)


I'm the same. I don't worry about it. I actually like the out of tune it creates, personally, but in the rare instance I do really want that fighting/beating tension of the doublestop then I will use the right hand pressure technique to compensate. I use all 5 springs at high tension by the way, so even if I bend the 6th string and have an open 7th it only dives by about a 1/4 step anyways, so correcting it takes very little right hand pressure.


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## Spicypickles (Apr 21, 2019)

Pretty sure they’ve been said but I just bend the other string with it, and give a bit of vibrato with the bar also, just to make it sexy.


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## Miko Del (Feb 16, 2020)

This is a great thread, very good solution ideas here and I learned some things. Most notably using pressure on the trem body or bar itself to hold your tune while bending. I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't thought of that. But there are definitely solutions out there where that is not necessary, as evidenced by Satch in his video.

Here are my own observations:

1) The first answer to the OP's question lumped several different products together. I have found some of them to be markedly different in function and intended use. The OP responded with his decision to go w/a Floyd, saying de-tuning wouldn't be a big deal. But all Floyds are not created equal, as was pointed out when a contributor said "Ibanez does their own version". The new high-end Ibanez guitars w/Edge trems are EXTREMELY sensitive to touch and tension. This makes them marvelously responsive instruments, but double-stop bends are nearly impossible without modification.

What I know so far regarding this particular issue is, most solutions to de-tuning during bends usually involve a trade-off in trem functionality. And if not functionality, definitely FEEL. But that's life. If you tighten the tension and use a hard stop you'll no longer be able to pull up. A long time ago I didn't care about going sharp. My first trem was an original Floyd on a 1985 Jackson RR and I made my own stop from a piece of clothespin, glued it in place, and cranked the s__t out of the springs. The top of my ring finger had a small, slightly black and blue dent for awhile, ha. But double-stop bends were not a problem! F-Fwd to current day, I now have two more guitars w/trems and I do like to "swell" the sound by pulling up gently. I haven't written anything where I need to pull agressively (yet) but I do love how the JS2410 (Ibanez Satriani guitar) Ultralite trem responds to the slightest pull while picking, making everything "shimmer". The whole point of the Ultralite trem is, it's ULTRA-light! It is extremely responsive to nuance movements. I know I will lose some of that if I employ any of these solutions. And the other really important thing is (and someone on this forum may already have mentioned it) SETUP is crucial. Players' reviews span from "I love it, it's great", to "It's OK", right down to "It sucks". Some of that is personal preference and some of it is how professionally it was installed and adjusted.


2) Here's my comment to the YouTube vid "Joe Satriani's live setup revealed"
_I noticed @ 9:00 in the video and 9:45 when Joe plays the classic double stop bend (G string up a step makes a min 3rd over B) he doesn't do anything to keep the Floyd from de-tuning. I have the JS2410 guitar, set up to near perfection with .010 strings, 1 add'l shim, neck adjusted, bridge perfectly level... but double-stop bends? Forget it. Unisons are a bit easier to bend both up and make them true, but G over B is impossible to do as Joe does here. I have a magnified screen capture of this vid and Joe isn't compensating in any way. The 2nd string is perfectly straight. He is not applying reverse trem pressure cause he's actually applying bi-directional vibrato during the bend._

3) According to my own internet searches, the Hipshot Tremsetter is more for vintage OEM trems that don't have locking nuts. It does not prevent the trem from de-tuning during bends, according to user input on Hipshot's site.

4) The SuperVee Maglok might do the trick. I have one on order and I'll let you all know. Of course I was disappointed in the contributor who talked about how the magnet failed. But I LOVE the ease of installation and the fact that you do NOT have to alter your spring tention. If it works on the Satch Ultralite trem it will work on anything, cause bending your G up a step on this contraption makes the other strings de-tune HORRIBLY. It's not a subtle thing. I read a review where a player said the Maglok zero-point had a noticeable notch, but since I often play with the trem held in my fingers that might actually be a plus. It takes extra concentration to NOT create trem effects when they are unwanted. The notch actually might be a benefit to me. Chirping will certainly be affected but I don't use it that much. Although I've been heavily into Jennifer lately and I'm starting to hear more chirps in my head!

5) ESP Arming Adjuster - another possibly excellent solution. It involves making the springs a lot tighter, which I can probably live with if I have to. The installation is more complicated than the SuperVee, so I trying the Maglok first. I hear it kills the bird though. No chirps.

6) AFAIK the Ibanez backstop is no longer in production. I find that curious cause Hoshino/Ibanez usually dive headlong into all-things tech, providing any number of options. Isn't playing a double-stop bend a staple of rock solos, at least occasionally?

Lastly just wanted to add, if you're a novice and have no patience/experience with the extensive set-up of a floating whammy, using any kind of backstop and cranking it tighter makes it so much easier to just tune and play.


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## AndiKravljaca (Feb 17, 2020)

I've taught myself to bend the other string as well when doing double stops, or to dig my finger into the frets to make the tone go sharp - I rarely have a problem with double stop bends with a Floyd, but it did take a while to learn. It's basically like being your own Evertune and increasing the string tension to maintain the tuning. As others have said here, you can apply pressure to the bridge as well, but I am too inaccurate to make that sound good.


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## Miko Del (Feb 18, 2020)

Hi Andi. Next time you're in a music store, ask to try a '17 or newer era JS24xx guitar. If you can make that work on this trem, you have AMAZING technique!!! And as I mentioned, Joe Satch has SOMETHING in place, don't know, but his axe plays like a freakin' Les Paul stop tailpiece when he bends, LOL


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## Drew (Feb 18, 2020)

Miko Del said:


> Hi Andi. Next time you're in a music store, ask to try a '17 or newer era JS24xx guitar. If you can make that work on this trem, you have AMAZING technique!!! And as I mentioned, Joe Satch has SOMETHING in place, don't know, but his axe plays like a freakin' Les Paul stop tailpiece when he bends, LOL


Satriani may be using one of the old Ibanez treb stabilizers, he may be bending both notes in the double stop to keep them ringing out in tune (his bending control really is excellent), or it's possible that he's holding the bar itself and applying vibrato there to stabilize/mask any trem movement. 

But yeah, as others have noted, this is a problem common to ALL floating trem designs, there are a few trem stablizers on the market (or trems with built in stabilization) designed to combat the issue that work with various degrees of success, and your options are either uusing something like that, or learning to stabilize the trem with your palm while you bend (I do this) or bend both notes to keep them in tune (which works as long as one of them isn't an open note). 

Personally, I have a Tremol-no in most of my guitars, so if I'm playing something where I know I need in-tune compound bends and don't need to use the bar, I can just lock the trem down. And when I don't, I just use some pressure on the bridge to counteract the bend's pulling other strings flat.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 18, 2020)

Think about it this way: Imagine the situation is that you are on a balanced see-saw, but you want to also hold your favorite bag of rocks. You're now off balance. To stay balanced, you either need to apply similar pressure to the other side of the see-saw, or but blocks under it so that you don't drop lower when the weight it added. That's it. Those are the only two ways. You either compensate by adding rocks (bending the other strings too, or holding the trem in place with the trem arm or your palm), or you block it with either a fixed block, or some of those mechanical add-ons.


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## Miko Del (Oct 16, 2020)

I'm rethinking what I see in the Satch video. Maybe he's not simply adding vibrato to that bend, but also pulling up slightly on the bar, as a few of you have already suggested. If I'm honest, I still don't have the heart to "compromise" the trem feel on either of my Ibanez's by installing a fix for the de-tuning. I think I'm going to have a real shot @ using the trem bar to 'help' the lower string stay in pitch, while also using left-hand technique to complete the equation. For me the MOST important thing is to have the axe go back into perfect tune after whammy gymnastics. And I've already seen a post about how these devices can slightly compromise this. I've been watching some Dann Huff lately and that kind of soulful whammy really appeals to me. These things are perfection from the factory. I'm gonna put my all into a 'technique fix' for this issue before I install anything other than an allen key holder, LOL


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## Drew (Oct 16, 2020)

Miko Del said:


> I'm rethinking what I see in the Satch video. Maybe he's not simply adding vibrato to that bend, but also pulling up slightly on the bar, as a few of you have already suggested. If I'm honest, I still don't have the heart to "compromise" the trem feel on either of my Ibanez's by installing a fix for the de-tuning. I think I'm going to have a real shot @ using the trem bar to 'help' the lower string stay in pitch, while also using left-hand technique to complete the equation. For me the MOST important thing is to have the axe go back into perfect tune after whammy gymnastics. And I've already seen a post about how these devices can slightly compromise this. I've been watching some Dann Huff lately and that kind of soulful whammy really appeals to me. These things are perfection from the factory. I'm gonna put my all into a 'technique fix' for this issue before I install anything other than an allen key holder, LOL


Honestly, while I actually don't do a ton of compound bends (something I realized while jamming along to something last night, actually), it really isn't hard to just press on the trem with your palm to counteract the pull as you bend - give it a try. When I'm playing something that DOES involve compound bends, and when I'm not locking my trem beforehand, this is what I do, and it works pretty well.


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## bostjan (Oct 16, 2020)

My vote: Just let the other note dive. It sounds fricken cool anyway.

Or, if it annoys you, adjust your technique.


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## Miko Del (Jun 20, 2022)

Well here I am again... I also looked into the Tremel-NO. I watched an installation vid. Their website is really good, with FAQ's, and fitment options, cute jokes... but one thing they don't tell you, in case you didn't realize the obvious: you aren't able to set/release this gizmo on the fly. You decide if you want floating trem, dive-only trem, or NO trem... BEFORE you play the song. (Oh well I guess if you leave the back cover off you can get good @ slipping your hand up your axe's arse and loosening/tightening the thing quickly.) After seeing Paul Gilbert switch from slide to no slide in an instant, and Tommy Emmanuel apply/chuck his capo in the space of a 16th note, I guess anything's possible... 

But as far as I can determine after inspecting the use and install of the Tremel-NO gadget via the web, one truth does not change with the Tremel-NO: Unless the device is totally LOCKED, it's STILL the trem spring tension which determines whether or not you can bend w/out detuning. 

I'm ordering a regular whammy bar for my JS2410. This forum educated me (somewhere, maybe in this thread?) that the Ibanez Edge Ultralight bar can break if you use it like an animal. That bar is $100 to replace. I'd rather crank up my tension, use the ESP Arming Adjuster, and fit a reg bar. Or... glue a piece of clothespin to keep the whammy from moving sharp at all, like I did w/the first Floyd I owned, on my 1985 Jackson RR USA. Bend to my heart's content, dive live an animal, come back to perfect tune. But... fingers were black and blue where the bar was held in between, when I was recording for extended periods. Tension was HIGH, LOL!

There's only one solution I can see that allows for light spring tension, AND no detuning. And that's the MagLok. If the MagLok really allows the vibrato mechanism to come back into tune perfectly after sirius whammy shenanigans - it's a most amazing device. 

Sorry for all the 'conjecture', but I haven't been playing hardly at all over the last year, so I still haven't installed / experimented w/these, ferreal.


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## c7spheres (Jun 20, 2022)

Miko Del said:


> Well here I am again... I also looked into the Tremel-NO. I watched an installation vid. Their website is really good, with FAQ's, and fitment options, cute jokes... but one thing they don't tell you, in case you didn't realize the obvious: you aren't able to set/release this gizmo on the fly. You decide if you want floating trem, dive-only trem, or NO trem... BEFORE you play the song. (Oh well I guess if you leave the back cover off you can get good @ slipping your hand up your axe's arse and loosening/tightening the thing quickly.) After seeing Paul Gilbert switch from slide to no slide in an instant, and Tommy Emmanuel apply/chuck his capo in the space of a 16th note, I guess anything's possible...
> 
> But as far as I can determine after inspecting the use and install of the Tremel-NO gadget via the web, one truth does not change with the Tremel-NO: Unless the device is totally LOCKED, it's STILL the trem spring tension which determines whether or not you can bend w/out detuning.
> 
> ...


 Just Fyi, regular Ibanez LoPro bars can break too when using 5 springs. I've broke a couple bars and hardly even use tremolo's and rarely dive, and that's when they break and dent your guitar. Each time it happens it can physically hurt you bad because of released tension. If you dive bomb much I wouldn't recommend high tension because it's actually pretty dangerous. Maybe one of those Red Bishops is stronger? They're hand made so maybe they're steel, which would be way stronger than an Ibanez bar if they are made of steel. Ibanez bars are just made of nickel palted zonc or something like that. I've been eyeing them a long time, those Red Bishops. Maybe somebody knows.


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## trem licking (Jun 20, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> Just Fyi, regular Ibanez LoPro bars can break too when using 5 springs. I've broke a couple bars and hardly even use tremolo's and rarely dive, and that's when they break and dent your guitar. Each time it happens it can physically hurt you bad because of released tension. If you dive bomb much I wouldn't recommend high tension because it's actually pretty dangerous. Maybe one of those Red Bishops is stronger? They're hand made so maybe they're steel, which would be way stronger than an Ibanez bar if they are made of steel. Ibanez bars are just made of nickel palted zonc or something like that. I've been eyeing them a long time, those Red Bishops. Maybe somebody knows.


IT'S THE NIGHT OF THE LIVING THREAD! heh... Red Bishop bars are quality. i have one on an 8 string floyd and i abuse the ever living hell out of it. no breaks and stays tight forever. do recommend


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## NoodleFace (Jun 20, 2022)

I can't imagine doing serious trem stuff with 5 springs. Ive used 4 and it sucks to play like that


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## Mprinsje (Jun 21, 2022)

I just stop it from raising up with my hand. Dunno how to explain it but it works well enough.


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## Humbuck (Jun 21, 2022)

Fwiw, my two Magloks are still working great...


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## RevDrucifer (Jun 21, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> Just Fyi, regular Ibanez LoPro bars can break too when using 5 springs. I've broke a couple bars and hardly even use tremolo's and rarely dive, and that's when they break and dent your guitar. Each time it happens it can physically hurt you bad because of released tension. If you dive bomb much I wouldn't recommend high tension because it's actually pretty dangerous. Maybe one of those Red Bishops is stronger? They're hand made so maybe they're steel, which would be way stronger than an Ibanez bar if they are made of steel. Ibanez bars are just made of nickel palted zonc or something like that. I've been eyeing them a long time, those Red Bishops. Maybe somebody knows.



Yeah, I’ve broken two bars in my JEM back when I was in high school pretending I was Vai. Each time I put the full weight of the guitar on the bar and pulled it up in the air and they snapped right where they fit in the trem socket, had to push them out from the back. 

I‘d be curious to know how many Vai has snapped over the years doing that same thing. Doesn’t seem to hold him back, though!


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jun 22, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I‘d be curious to know how many Vai has snapped over the years doing that same thing. Doesn’t seem to hold him back, though!



Probably a fair bit, but considering he changes the whole Edge bridge on his EVO every 6 months (!) I can't imagine the bar being a problem. 

On the topic of unison bends, I remember Satch mentioning that he has to practice compound bending by bending both strings to pitch. It takes a lot of work and ear training to get it right with a floyd, especially with the extra tension you have to fight against. 



Towards the end you can hear Rob getting a few imperfect bends (then flutters it). But in this case it works since the bends are so primal and full of emotion, as well as sounding cooler with heavy fluttering.


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jun 27, 2022)

Edika said:


> The easiest way is to bend the other string slightly too.


This! I really don't consider myself to be very good at guitar, but it feels very intuitive and natural for me to do this. 

For OP:
Double-stop bend with the 2nd & 3rd strings (bending 3rd string), using my 2nd & 3rd fingers. I 'anchor' the bend with my 3rd finger on the 2nd string. As I bend the 3rd string with my 2nd finger, I subtly pull the 2nd string in the opposite direction.
I think some people would bend the 2nd string in the same direction, but I find it harder to control both strings this way...YMMV.

EDIT:
Most of my guitars have some form of Ibanez Edge tremolo. The pitch of other strings definitely changes less on those with the ZPS system (Edge Zero / ZR bridge) comapred to those without (Edge / Lo-Pro Edge).


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## NoodleFace (Jun 27, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Probably a fair bit, but considering he changes the whole Edge bridge on his EVO every 6 months (!) I can't imagine the bar being a problem.
> 
> On the topic of unison bends, I remember Satch mentioning that he has to practice compound bending by bending both strings to pitch. It takes a lot of work and ear training to get it right with a floyd, especially with the extra tension you have to fight against.
> 
> ...



Every 6 months? Jeez they must be barely broken in


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## Hollowway (Jun 28, 2022)

trem licking said:


> You can adjust your technique to compensate too... By applying pressure with the side of your hand to the bridge slightly as you bend. Practice for this would be do the double stop bend while applying this technique, and only play the non bent string. This will give you a gauge as to how much pressure to apply. Only takes a small bit of practice to nail it.
> I just dont worry about it, personally. Still sounds in tune enough without doing anything about it (shrug)


Same. For me, the detuning when bending is just part of the “instrument.” I LOVE Floyds because they’re literally on the knife edge between control and chaos. It’s crazy expressive, there’s a crap ton of sounds you can get out of them, and they’re completely organic and analog. My first ever electric guitar had a Floyd, and it’s all I played, live, recording, and at home, until I joined this place and you bastards got me hooked on collecting all kinds of guitars.


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