# Kiesel quality control



## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

Received my new guitar with the vibrato/ tremelo springs laying in the case with guitar and 1 string broke off at tuner a 2nd broke at tuner after calling/emailing to find out what the extra springs were for only to be notified that they belonged in the guitar.... I'm new to guitar and because I play lefty the custom choices are rare, they had the " lead tech " talk with me and he sent a video how to install the springs ,,,only to find out that the wood screws used to tighten the spring holders were so loose the springs did not stay on.... Emailing again it became apparent that this brand has no problem of the consumer repairing a brand new guitar.....I'm not a set up person yet because I'm new into playing, and the 5 + month wait for this thing to be built should not need fully done.....the guitar is beautiful, it had wrong color pick-up rings from order but found no cosmetic issues scratch or dings,, my disparity is : 
1. No quality control list or final inspection proof... and shipping back across the U.S and then back again with hopes nothing else happens... Which opens up another can ...


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## narad (May 3, 2022)

Kiesel - Never Again


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## CanserDYI (May 3, 2022)

Man I'm sorry your experience was like this, mine came flawless with no issues and is probably my favorite guitar.


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

Well, I think it would be good to do as the other builders do I bout also a fender stratocaster and a les- Paul and a SG all had quality control inspection list in box with an owner's manual and registration form ... Not so for this brand ,,,my bad for not asking before purchasing...


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## Glades (May 3, 2022)

Send it back to them and have them fix it. Springs don't just pop-out during transit. That's the way the guitar was shipped. Give them a chance to make it right.


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## CanserDYI (May 3, 2022)

Who's your sales guy?


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 3, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Who's your sales guy?


Wonder if it's our guy Mike Jones...

Ahhh...I do enjoy seeing yet another person who barely grasps English grammar joining this board with a brand new account just to bash Kiesel.


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

Glades said:


> Send it back to them and have them fix it. Springs don't just pop-out during transit. That's the way the guitar was shipped. Give them a chance to make it right





Emperor Guillotine said:


> Wonder if it's our guy Mike Jones...
> 
> Ahhh...I do enjoy seeing yet another person who barely grasps English grammar joining this board with a brand new account just to bash Kiesel.


I'm using talk 2 text, and I'm only posting with objective statement of the account I had


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I'm using talk 2 text, and I'm only posting with objective statement of the account I had


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

my order arrived in this condition , my fear is what could happen with it going back , it may be like sending a high end steak back to the chef about it not being done enough,,and return with again no set up or a scratch or worse....lesson learned....


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## BusinessMan (May 3, 2022)

New to guitar and went immediately custom? And kiesel at that?


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> New to guitar and went immediately custom? And kiesel at that?


I now have 5 lol , I've got the chords down well and transitions fairly well,,,,I retired 2 years ago and I have 3 other hobbies one is far more pricey..


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## NickS (May 3, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> my order arrived in this condition , my fear is what could happen with it going back , it may be like sending a high end steak back to the chef about it not being done enough,,and return with again no set up or a scratch or worse....lesson learned....


Definitely don't send it back, at least not with the hopes of getting anything fixed to your satisfaction. Jeff Kiesel is a first class POS and you're guitar would end up worse than it started in some way or another.


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

NickS said:


> Definitely don't send it back, at least not with the hopes of getting anything fixed to your satisfaction. Jeff Kiesel is a first class POS and you're guitar would end up worse than it started in some way or another.


My thoughts also,,,I did not look into the organization deep , I was told by a friend about kiesel last October ordered beginning of November,,,,and the real issue is that they should contact a local place to correct set up and replace strings,,,that's all I wanted ....


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## tedtan (May 3, 2022)

NickS said:


> Jeff Kiesel is a first class POS and you're guitar would end up worse than it started in some way or another.


They were good while they were still Carvin, but when Jeff Keisel took over quality control and customer service went in the shitter (where Jeff belongs).


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## NickS (May 3, 2022)

tedtan said:


> They were good while they were still Carvin, but when Jeff Keisel took over quality control and customer service went in the shitter (where Jeff belongs).


Yeah, I have 4 Carvins. If the opportunity presented itself for a good deal on a USED Kiesel I might pick one up, but I will never buy a new one while that tool is around.


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## John (May 3, 2022)

"Call my guys at 858-GUITAR for a chance to get verbally berated on our livestreams instead of getting us to fix your guitar we goofed up (again)."

-eff iesel the sentient Tapout shirt.


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## Dayn (May 3, 2022)

Don't construe this as a defence of Kiesel (particularly given the thread posted earlier, which I've made critical comments in already), but definitely try to get your issues sorted with them direct first. Give them the opportunity to actually provide a proper product - because if they do, then your problem is sorted. Could be a mistake, could be their MO, but you need to do what you can to make it right. _Then_ put them on blast if they don't.


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## mastapimp (May 3, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Wonder if it's our guy Mike Jones...


Didn't he quit about a year ago?


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 3, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Didn't he quit about a year ago?


Wait…what? REALLY? Fax that tea, cuh.

Maybe the absence of Mike Jones is why the number of Kiesel complaints has significantly diminished in the past several months.


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## mastapimp (May 3, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Wait…what? REALLY? Fax that tea, cuh.
> 
> Maybe the absence of Mike Jones is why the number of Kiesel complaints has significantly diminished in the past several months.


start here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/the-carvin-kiesel-thread.158783/page-248#post-5286491


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

Dayn said:


> Don't construe this as a defence of Kiesel (particularly given the thread posted earlier, which I've made critical comments in already), but definitely try to get your issues sorted with them direct first. Give them the opportunity to actually provide a proper product - because if they do, then your problem is sorted. Could be a mistake, could be their MO, but you need to do what you can to make it right. _Then_ put them on blast if they don't.


I agree I'm looking into one more thing , I do have a return label they provided... It appears it missed final set up somehow....


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## spudmunkey (May 3, 2022)

What it sounds like to me, is that your package took a BIG hit in transit.

For the trem claw screws to be pulled out of the body, for springs to come out, and springs to break...that doesn't sound like a "they skipped QC" issue. It sounds more like the courier mistook your box for a soccer ball.

Asking a customer to try to repair what *COULD* just have been parts that got knocked loose on a custom made item shipped (I assume) hundreds, if not thousands of miles, that doesn't seem abnormal, especially for the first step. When you call Tech Support for a computer problem, they are first going to ask you to make sure it's plugged in, turned on, attached to the monitor, and they'll ask you to reboot. If it's a new computer, they might ask you to make sure the memory and graphics cards are fully inserted into their slots, etc. That doeshn't seem unreasonable to me, at least not from the info given.

That sucks, though, when the thing you've been waiting for for like 4-6 months arrives defective.

For what it's work, Kiesel has indeed had serious customer service issues, but it's been very quiet on that front for almost 2 years now, after the big blow-up in April of 2020.

[edit: Full disclosure: I temped for them for about 6 weeks last summer, answering the easy sales and customer service emails]



mastapimp said:


> Didn't he quit about a year ago?


Last June, so about 11 months ago.


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## Sam I am (May 3, 2022)

spudmunkey said:


> What it sounds like to me, is that your package took a BIG hit in transit.
> 
> For the trem claw screws to be pulled out of the body, for springs to come out, and springs to break...that doesn't sound like a "they skipped QC" issue. It sounds more like the courier mistook your box for a soccer ball.
> 
> ...


Well, that was the response that it was done in shipping,,,I need to post pics of the box and guitar the box has zero crush zones and zero damage , the guitar is magnificent in aesthetics... The 2 wood screws they use are course thread impossible to rotate equal without a tool reverse,,,, again NO final inspection/ setup checklist with inspector signature or initials was included as with all major brands....


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## Hollowway (May 4, 2022)

Yeah, let's see some photos. I would have guessed damage in transit, because I've had SO much stuff damaged in transit recently. But, that would be a weird damage. That said, it's also odd that they'd forget to put the springs in the trem cavity, but somehow decide to put them in the case.


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## chipchappy (May 4, 2022)

oh god, it's happening again


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## oracles (May 4, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Didn't he quit about a year ago?



As far as I'd heard, he was fired. Either way, he's definitely not there anymore and hasn't been for around a year.


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## spudmunkey (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Well, that was the response that it was done in shipping,,,I need to post pics of the box and guitar the box has zero crush zones and zero damage , the guitar is magnificent in aesthetics... The 2 wood screws they use are course thread impossible to rotate equal without a tool reverse,,,, again NO final inspection/ setup checklist with inspector signature or initials was included as with all major brands....



Kiesel hasn't ever included an initialed checklist. Just to be clear, yours wasn't missing it...it's just not something they do. 

With the kind of hit that could dislodge parts and break a string, I wouldn't expect to see crush corners or a dented size, because that would be the box acting as a crumple zone. Dropping it flat on the boxes edge can create a high g-force that wouldn't really be visible as damage on the outside of the box. It would be rare, though, for sure.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

spudmunkey said:


> Kiesel hasn't ever included an initialed checklist. Just to be clear, yours wasn't missing it...it's just not something they do.
> 
> With the kind of hit that could dislodge parts and break a string, I wouldn't expect to see crush corners or a dented size, because that would be the box acting as a crumple zone. Dropping it flat on the boxes edge can create a high g-force that wouldn't really be visible as damage on the outside of the box. It would be rare, though, for sure


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## lewstherin006 (May 4, 2022)

Return the guitar and buy something else. That would be my advice.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

lewstherin006 said:


> Return the guitar and buy something else. That would be my advice.


I agree unfortunately this all has taken place with me letting 10 days from received and they only give 10 days .... That's my bad .....it's at a very reputable shop to look it over and set up , if there is an issue other ,,, I guess I will take the risk of returning 2000+ miles there and back again ...Lord of the strings


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## Spoonerluv (May 4, 2022)

I'll just be that guy and say your story _sounds _like complete bullshit, and it's not surprising you have so many people latching onto it considering this forum is a safe haven for Kiesel hate (much of it deservedly so). Pics or it didn't happen.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Spoonerluv said:


> I'll just be that guy and say your story _sounds _like complete bullshit, and it's not surprising you have so many people latching onto it considering this forum is a safe haven for Kiesel hate (much of it deservedly so). Pics or it didn't happen.


Well here's the guitar pics and


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Well here's the guitar pics and


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

I hope this clears it up ,,,


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## Spoonerluv (May 4, 2022)

OP delivers. 
I'm curious - were there no springs at all in the guitar? It's not uncommon for you to receive some _extra _springs in the case, especially if you have a floyd rose equipped guitar. Like, is your trem just completely unlevel?


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Spoonerluv said:


> OP delivers.
> I'm curious - were there no springs at all in the guitar? It's not uncommon for you to receive some _extra _springs in the case, especially if you have a floyd rose equipped guitar. Like, is your trem just completely unlevel?


None in the guitar 3 we're in the guitar case 1 string broke in case then 2 ND broke after springs attached both at locking tuner very last 1/8 to 1/4 inch


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> None in the guitar 3 we're in the guitar case 1 string broke in case then 2 ND broke after springs attached both at locking tuner very last 1/8 to 1/4 inch


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## JSanta (May 4, 2022)

Pictures of the communications are helpful, but the cavity of the actual guitar would go a long way as well.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

JSanta said:


> Pictures of the communications are helpful, but the cavity of the actual guitar would go a long way as well.


The lead tech had me open the back plate to see if they were intact and that extras were shipped in error this what it revealed,,,


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

Someone teach this dude how to upload a picture cause I wanna see this thing.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Someone teach this dude how to upload a picture cause I wanna see this thing.


I'ma trying this forum isn't like Facebook or Twitter my complaint is not the guitar it's with the lack of a final set up/ inspection verification which all guitar manufacturers that I have purchased from give, and that I'm now supposed to be the repair guy, I just wanted at the end to have them authorize a local facility to " set up " and re string to spec not ship it 2000+ miles one way there and back in hopes nothing else happens. .


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Pics


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Pics


I am uploading and it says they are complete but it does not show


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Received my new guitar with the vibrato/ tremelo springs laying in the case with guitar and 1 string broke off at tuner a 2nd broke at tuner after calling/emailing to find out what the extra springs were for only to be notified that they belonged in the guitar.... I'm new to guitar and because I play lefty the custom choices are rare, they had the " lead tech " talk with me and he sent a video how to install the springs ,,,only to find out that the wood screws used to tighten the spring holders were so loose the springs did not stay on.... Emailing again it became apparent that this brand has no problem of the consumer repairing a brand new guitar.....I'm not a set up person yet because I'm new into playing, and the 5 + month wait for this thing to be built should not need fully done.....the guitar is beautiful, it had wrong color pick-up rings from order but found no cosmetic issues scratch or dings,, my disparity is :
> 1. No quality control list or final inspection proof... and shipping back across the U.S and then back again with hopes nothing else happens... Which opens up another can ...





CanserDYI said:


> Someone teach this dude how to upload a picture cause I wanna see this thing.


It keeps saying each pic file is too large what can I do ? I'm using a Droid max


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

take screenshots of the pics and upload the screenshots. They should be smaller.


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## lewstherin006 (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> It keeps saying each pic file is too large what can I do ? I'm using a Droid max


You may need to download a photo app that compresses or lowers the size of the pic. Facebook and twitter do this for you, but old school forums like this dont.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> take screenshots of the pics and upload the screenshots. They should be smaller.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

This one


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## lewstherin006 (May 4, 2022)

I know you are new to guitar but this is actually an easy fix. Any tech who is decent can put the springs back and level the bridge. This shouldnt have happened in shipping unless your guitar took a major drop or vibration that made them come off. They might not have had enough tension on them from the factory.


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

Im confused as hell as how they came out of the control cavity? Didnt YOU open it?


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

lewstherin006 said:


> I know you are new to guitar but this is actually an easy fix. Any tech who is decent can put the springs back and level the bridge. This shouldnt have happened in shipping unless your guitar took a major drop or vibration that made them come off. They might not have had enough tension on them from the factory.


Exactly , and my point is why pay shipping both ways have guitar travel 4000+ miles total when they could autho a local place of THEIR choice just to set up and put strings on ?


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Im confused as hell as how they came out of the control cavity? Didnt YOU open it?


3 springs we're laying in the case with guitar upon arrival and high E string was broke also... I didn't even know what they were until I called/ emailed them


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## brector (May 4, 2022)

Spoonerluv said:


> I'll just be that guy and say your story _sounds _like complete bullshit, and it's not surprising you have so many people latching onto it considering this forum is a safe haven for Kiesel hate (much of it deservedly so). Pics or it didn't happen.


That you Jeff?


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

brector said:


> That you Jeff?


No I'm Sam a disappointed customer


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## brector (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> No I'm Sam a disappointed customer


I replied to Spoonerluv, not you.


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

Yeah if your guitar didn't have the springs in them at all, and the back control cavity plate was screwed on, either you're not being 100% honest or someone at Kiesel this last month is smoking crack on the job.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (May 4, 2022)

The plot thickens.


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## Jonathan20022 (May 4, 2022)

Spoonerluv said:


> I'll just be that guy and say your story _sounds _like complete bullshit, and it's not surprising you have so many people latching onto it considering this forum is a safe haven for Kiesel hate (much of it deservedly so). Pics or it didn't happen.



It's actually weird that people can't just characterize things accurately, Kiesel hate has died down like Spud said because there hasn't been a scandal in 2 years. Kudos to them, mistakes happen and widespread hate usually followed some pretty questionable CS/Owner choices to find a resolution. But stuff like OP's issue can technically happen by fluke, to any builder, and due to it legitimately being an unbelievably easy fix I don't think it was inappropriate to ask the customer to reapply the springs themselves.

I will say I agree on not buying this, my Grandmother is 80 and still learned how to send me glittery butterfly "have a nice day" gifs on the daily. The fact that no pictures of the guitar were posted until way later made me doubt the validity of this for sure.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> It's actually weird that people can't just characterize things accurately, Kiesel hate has died down like Spud said because there hasn't been a scandal in 2 years. Kudos to them, mistakes happen and widespread hate usually followed some pretty questionable CS/Owner choices to find a resolution. But stuff like OP's issue can technically happen by fluke, to any builder, and due to it legitimately being an unbelievably easy fix I don't think it was inappropriate to ask the customer to reapply the springs themselves.
> 
> I will say I agree on not buying this, my Grandmother is 80 and still learned how to send me glittery butterfly "have a nice day" gifs on the daily. The fact that no pictures of the guitar were posted until way later made me doubt the validity of this for sure.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

Not your grandma but I'm not selling anything either, so no need to misrepresent ......thank you for you kind comment


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

At least you got a choice top, looks nice. I say just throw the springs in and carry on as normal, as this didn't break the guitar, and I bet @Jonathan20022 's 80 year old grandmother could put the springs in herself, I'm sure you can Sam.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> At least you got a choice top, looks nice. I say just throw the springs in and carry on as normal, as this didn't break the guitar, and I bet @Jonathan20022 's 80 year old grandmother could put the springs in herself, I'm sure you can Sam.


I followed the video their tech sent , the strings when tightened lift the back piece , plus I'm out 2 strings ,,,,as I have said in prior they should save the shipping 4000+ miles round trip and give me an option of a place local to have it set up that's all . I don't not have the correct knowledge on set up yet .


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## creepymcpeepers (May 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Man I'm sorry your experience was like this, mine came flawless with no issues and is probably my favorite guitar.


Lol this reminds me of a time I was waiting tables at Outback Steakhouse. I woman came in all upset her dog died and my reaction was to show her a picture of my alive dog… my friend said what a horrible reaction … here’s my alive dog the opposite of your dead dog lol


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## CanserDYI (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I followed the video their tech sent , the strings when tightened lift the back piece , plus I'm out 2 strings ,,,,as I have said in prior they should save the shipping 4000+ miles round trip and give me an option of a place local to have it set up that's all . I don't not have the correct knowledge on set up yet .


I mean, you don't have to be a genius to set up a trem. Slack the strings, put in the springs, string up new strings, lock strings in locking tuner, tune to pitch, adjust claw until its level with body, and retune, adjust claw and retune as needed until balanced. You're kind of already in this situation, but if you want to pay a monkey at a shop to do it, by all means, but looks like Kiesel won't help anymore.


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## creepymcpeepers (May 4, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Received my new guitar with the vibrato/ tremelo springs laying in the case with guitar and 1 string broke off at tuner a 2nd broke at tuner after calling/emailing to find out what the extra springs were for only to be notified that they belonged in the guitar.... I'm new to guitar and because I play lefty the custom choices are rare, they had the " lead tech " talk with me and he sent a video how to install the springs ,,,only to find out that the wood screws used to tighten the spring holders were so loose the springs did not stay on.... Emailing again it became apparent that this brand has no problem of the consumer repairing a brand new guitar.....I'm not a set up person yet because I'm new into playing, and the 5 + month wait for this thing to be built should not need fully done.....the guitar is beautiful, it had wrong color pick-up rings from order but found no cosmetic issues scratch or dings,, my disparity is :
> 1. No quality control list or final inspection proof... and shipping back across the U.S and then back again with hopes nothing else happens... Which opens up another can ...


The tool to easily put the spring on is at fu-tone.com


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Lol this reminds me of a time I was waiting tables at Outback Steakhouse. I woman came in all upset her dog died and my reaction was to show her a picture of my alive dog… my friend said what a horrible reaction … here’s my alive dog the opposite of your dead dog lol


Hopefully this guitar lasts longer than her dog ..lol it's been an eye opener.... I have 5 other guitars I can play ,,,this was the only custom and last also..


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## bostjan (May 4, 2022)

This doesn't make any sense.

1. Springs don't pass through solid objects, no matter how hard they are hit.
2. The trem in your photo of the top of the guitar is leaning the wrong way. If the strings are pulling on it, and there are no springs to balance, the force of the strings should pull the trem closer to the neck or dislodge it completely. I get the feeling something else is wrong.

My first guess is that someone forgot to attach the springs and then shipped the guitar. But even that doesn't make any sense. Don't they try to at least tune the strings up to some sort of pitch before shipping?! They should have at least intonated the guitar. That wouldn't be possible without the strings at some sort of pitch, which, in turn, is impossible if the bridge is not held in place by any sort of mechanical force.

I know Kiesel has done some really really dumb things in the recent past, but are you certain _you _didn't take the springs out yourself?! I can't see the Kiesel tech taking the springs out after everything else was adjusted, and they certainly didn't teleport out of the trem cavity, through the cover, and into the other part of the case magically. I'm all for blaming Kiesel for poor QC when they fuck up, but this seems like it'd take way too much effort for them to do... unless......

Is there a chance that your country's border police took the springs out, thinking there were drugs hidden in the trem cavity? I know it sounds crazy, but, if you didn't take the springs out yourself, it seems to be the only semi-plausible explanation for this situation. In that case, I guess, the guitar might be okay. Except there is still some reason why the trem itself is tilted the wrong way in the photo.

Man, I don't know. If this was posted right after you received it, I'd say just return it. Maybe try to gently reason with Kiesel about the fact that this situation is not your fault and that there might be damage to the guitar caused by shipping. If they are the shippers, and they insured the shipment, then they would have to take it up with the parcel carrier, who would have to probably take it up with import agents or customs or whatever.


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## bostjan (May 4, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Lol this reminds me of a time I was waiting tables at Outback Steakhouse. I woman came in all upset her dog died and my reaction was to show her a picture of my alive dog… my friend said what a horrible reaction … here’s my alive dog the opposite of your dead dog lol


I love your posts; they're like a holiday from the ordinary. Always the most random topic that somehow always find any excuse to go to Outback Steakhouse. You play by no rules, yet your content is somehow always just right. Crave on!


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## High Plains Drifter (May 4, 2022)

I mean... Kiesel isn't going to authorize a shop in your area to work on this guitar so that's not up for discussion. The "fix" is not a complicated one and plenty of people here on SSO are more than willing to walk you through this... which is essentially putting the springs in and adjusting the two trem-screws as necessary to level the bridge. It's not even a little difficult regardless of you not wanting to do this. If Kiesel offers to pay shipping both ways and you decide to send it to them, then that's up to you and them. I personally wouldn't go that route as I'd hate to risk the guitar actually getting damaged in transit. But aside from that, I really think the best way to go is to replace the strings... either the whole set or just the damaged ones. Hell... ask Kiesel to send you a new set of strings. But if they don't then just buy a new set and install them then throw those springs on... get the bridge leveled and you're done. Plus you've saved money and learned how to do part of a basic set-up. There's plenty of tutorials and again, guys here on SSO would be more than happy to walk you through it as well. They're dealt with vejichan... They can help you! 

Only condition that I'd send that guitar back to Kiesel is if the screw threads in the wood are stripped out but pretty sure that's not the case. BTW gorgeous guitar.


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## Sam I am (May 4, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> I mean... Kiesel isn't going to authorize a shop in your area to work on this guitar so that's not up for discussion. The "fix" is not a complicated one and plenty of people here on SSO are more than willing to walk you through this... which is essentially putting the springs in and adjusting the two trem-screws as necessary to level the bridge. It's not even a little difficult regardless of you not wanting to do this. If Kiesel offers to pay shipping both ways and you decide to send it to them, then that's up to you and them. I personally wouldn't go that route as I'd hate to risk the guitar actually getting damaged in transit. But aside from that, I really think the best way to go is to replace the strings... either the whole set or just the damaged ones. Hell... ask Kiesel to send you a new set of strings. But if they don't then just buy a new set and install them then throw those springs on... get the bridge leveled and you're done. Plus you've saved money and learned how to do part of a basic set-up. There's plenty of tutorials and again, guys here on SSO would be more than happy to walk you through it as well. They're dealt with vejichan... They can help you!
> 
> Only condition that I'd send that guitar back to Kiesel is if the screw threads in the wood are stripped out but pretty sure that's not the case. BTW gorgeous guitar.


I agree ,,,I've been running on emotion over this and thankful at least I have it here. I need to learn this so now is the time ..


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## bostjan (May 4, 2022)

There is more than one way to do this, but here's my recommendation:

1. Loosen the strings, but don't remove them. If you have a locking nut, you'll have to unclamp it first.
2. Place the hook ends of the springs into the trem block holes.
3. Place the loop ends of the springs over the claws on the trem claw. Loosen the trem claw screws if it's difficult to reach (probably will be).
4. Black the trem by placing an appropriately-sized object between the trem block and the body. A 9V battery often fits, but it depends on the size of the route. The size of the block should be such that the bridge stays level.
5. Tune the strings to pitch.
6. Tighten the trem claw until the block just barely slides out on its own. If you do this properly, you shouldn't have to retune.
7. Put everything else (locking nut, trem cavity cover, etc.) back the way it was.
8. Rock out.


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## BComer (May 5, 2022)

Kind of makes me wonder if this is a problem with the direct model. A dealer would have resolved this for you. They would have either fixed it up in house, or sent it back. 
Either way, I would have an experienced luthier look it over and make sure it doesn't have any structural defects.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 5, 2022)

This is one of those situations where a company with good customer service would read the room, and just send off a $50 check (which should cover just about whatever shop minimum this would take) and call it a day. It's worth infinitely more in good will than just fucking around.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

BComer said:


> Kind of makes me wonder if this is a problem with the direct model. A dealer would have resolved this for you. They would have either fixed it up in house, or sent it back.
> Either way, I would have an experienced luthier look it over and make sure it doesn't have any structural defects.


I had it all corrected yesterday was planning it last night all is well


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## lewstherin006 (May 5, 2022)

BComer said:


> Kind of makes me wonder if this is a problem with the direct model. A dealer would have resolved this for you. They would have either fixed it up in house, or sent it back.
> Either way, I would have an experienced luthier look it over and make sure it doesn't have any structural defects.



I have bought Amps directly from companies that are in another country and they take care of any issues anyone has. Over night tubes, taking care of damage etc.




MaxOfMetal said:


> This is one of those situations where a company with good customer service would read the room, and just send off a $50 check (which should cover just about whatever shop minimum this would take) and call it a day. It's worth infinitely more in good will than just fucking around.




Its hard to actually take care of the people who buy stuff from you these days /sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.


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## tedtan (May 5, 2022)

It’s not the direct to consumer model, its semi-competent management. Jeff is able to keep the business running, but I think he intentionally shifted focus to target the djent crowd because 1) it was a trend, and 2) the djent crowd tends to be younger and, as such, less demanding than an older demographic would generally be.


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## bostjan (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I had it all corrected yesterday was planning it last night all is well


Great news! Did you do it yourself, or did you have to pay out of pocket? If it's the latter, I would scan the bill for the repair, write a polite email to Kiesel and attach the bill for their reference. Even if they ultimately do nothing, the next time it happens to someone else, you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing you did what you could and they brushed it off. Or, if it never happens again, even better.

I still have a tendency to think that this was not likely Kiesel's fault. But, as I think I said before, if something bizarre happened during shipment, there's 100% no way that it should be on you to fix it.


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## CanserDYI (May 5, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Great news! Did you do it yourself, or did you have to pay out of pocket? If it's the latter, I would scan the bill for the repair, write a polite email to Kiesel and attach the bill for their reference. Even if they ultimately do nothing, the next time it happens to someone else, you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing you did what you could and they brushed it off. Or, if it never happens again, even better.
> 
> I still have a tendency to think that this was not likely Kiesel's fault. But, as I think I said before, if something bizarre happened during shipment, there's 100% no way that it should be on you to fix it.


I'm just baffled that if OP is telling the full truth, which I will assume, MULTIPLE people at kiesel just didn't notice the lack of tension on the strings and somehow put the cover on, and then somehow got the springs in the case with the guitar too? I'm just so confused here on how this would have happened. Possibly sent the guitar early?? Missed a check after final assembly? There's no way shipping damage would make the springs pop out and put the cover back on, I'm just bewildered.


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## bostjan (May 5, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I'm just baffled that if OP is telling the full truth, which I will assume, MULTIPLE people at kiesel just didn't notice the lack of tension on the strings and somehow put the cover on, and then somehow got the springs in the case with the guitar too? I'm just so confused here on how this would have happened. Possibly sent the guitar early?? Missed a check after final assembly? There's no way shipping damage would make the springs pop out and put the cover back on, I'm just bewildered.


It's an international shipment. Here's my hypothesis, which is going to sound really weird, but I can't think of any other explanation:

1. Kiesel finished the guitar. They put it in the case. They slapped a shipping label on it, and had some broseph dude fill out the customs forms.
2. Whichever carrier picked it up, treated it no worse than usual, and took it to the border of whatever country in which OP resides.
3. Customs agents there saw a guitar with a brand name they had never heard of, and probably some questionable customs documents. Suspicious, they opened the box, saw an actual guitar. Maybe it smelled like drugs or someone was bored on that particular day, so they ended up discovering the trem cavity, and, not knowing WTF a trem cavity is, guessed it was a secret compartment for smuggling certain substances. So, they popped the cavity open, saw springs in it, and, again, having no idea what a trem cavity is, decided that the best way to search for contents inside of the springs was to pop them out of the guitar (as far as they knew, why would there be springs in a guitar?) - probably breaking the string in the process. Then they couldn't figure out how to get them back on, said "fuck it," and just haphazardly threw everything back into the case and sealed it back up, rubber stamped it, and forgot it ever happened.
4. OP gets the guitar, is immediately like "WTF?!", contacts Kiesel, who, being Kiesel, sends OP instructions on how to fix it, and pretends like none of this ever happened.

Here in the US, our customs agents are usually pretty careful and at least somewhat savvy. I know that's not universally the case in other countries. I don't recall if OP ever said what country this is, but maybe it's one with >0 ignorant customs agents checking packages. I know it sounds far fetched, but I challenge you to figure out a more plausible scenario.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

bostjan said:


> It's an international shipment. Here's my hypothesis, which is going to sound really weird, but I can't think of any other explanation:
> 
> 1. Kiesel finished the guitar. They put it in the case. They slapped a shipping label on it, and had some broseph dude fill out the customs forms.
> 2. Whichever carrier picked it up, treated it no worse than usual, and took it to the border of whatever country in which OP resides.
> ...


The guitar travels 2000+ miles with 5 changes it appears of facility, no damage to box or guitar , 1 string broke , 3 springs in case,,,,I had all of the issues corrected yesterday by a Luthier and now I'm playing


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## High Plains Drifter (May 5, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I know it sounds far fetched, but I challenge you to figure out a more plausible scenario.


Kiesel don't give two fucks. 

Certainly could be as you suggested. I just think it's more plausible since it's Kiesel, that the guitar went out without a final check and some undisclosed damaged strings. Wouldn't be the first time that Kiesel sent out a guitar with that "Fuck it... close enough and we already got paid" attitude.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> Kiesel don't give two fucks.
> 
> Certainly could be as you suggested. I just think it's more plausible since it's Kiesel, that the guitar went out without a final check and some undisclosed damaged strings. Wouldn't be the first time that Kiesel sent out a guitar with that "Fuck it... close enough and we already got paid" attitude.


I personally think after multiple phone / email back and forth that they have a great manufacturer setup and zero post checklist where a tech checks off each item and signs like all their competitors


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## Brayden Buckingham (May 5, 2022)

I had a few verryyyy minor scratches and a small dimple on the fretboard of my bass and the company offered 15% off ( B stock ) or wait and get a brand new one , like 5 days after I mentioned it to the shop I went to . ie ; good customer service isn't hard .

It's odd to think springs literally fell out of guitar , but stuff does happen . It should be on them to fix it , but I would try fixing it myself first and then ship it back if I can't . Weird situation overall . I feel like the burden goes to Kiesel here in that aspect , but it could have happened in transit , etc etc . It's up to OP to rectify how he wants to go about it but if I was selling someone a guitar / representing a brand , I'd try and talk them through it over the phone or email pictures detailing the steps required and then send them some strings and a t-shirt or something to say hey thanks for making this easy '


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## bostjan (May 5, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> Kiesel don't give two fucks.
> 
> Certainly could be as you suggested. I just think it's more plausible since it's Kiesel, that the guitar went out without a final check and some undisclosed damaged strings. Wouldn't be the first time that Kiesel sent out a guitar with that "Fuck it... close enough and we already got paid" attitude.


Oh, I agree. It's just that it would take more effort to string it up without the springs attached or string it up and then detach the strings, and I don't think Kiesel would put in that sort of effort. If there was some sort of reason to take the springs off, then maybe. Trying to think of the reason why they would do that, though, and they all require someone to actually give a fuck about something and then stop giving a fuck mid-repair. 

Like, "Oh no, there's a flaw in the finish inside of the trem cavity, we'll have to remove the trem springs and touch it up," or "This trem claw is damaged, we should replace it." Every one of those thoughts would instead be "Meh, no one will notice until the refund window is closed, so fuck it."

I suppose another option is that someone was being stupid and fucking with the guitar and somehow accidentally popped all of the springs out. Like "Heh heh, hey Jeff, check this out - BOIOIOIOING! Heh heh, cool!" And then Beavis pulls up on the bar so hard that the springs drop out of the guitar. As Beavis tries to put the springs back in, Jeff says "Huh huh, huh huh. Dumbass, this guitar is, like, already done. Just put it back in the case."


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Brayden Buckingham said:


> I had a few verryyyy minor scratches and a small dimple on the fretboard of my bass and the company offered 15% off ( B stock ) or wait and get a brand new one , like 5 days after I mentioned it to the shop I went to . ie ; good customer service isn't hard .
> 
> It's odd to think springs literally fell out of guitar , but stuff does happen . It should be on them to fix it , but I would try fixing it myself first and then ship it back if I can't . Weird situation overall . I feel like the burden goes to Kiesel here in that aspect , but it could have happened in transit , etc etc . It's up to OP to rectify how he wants to go about it but if I was selling someone a guitar / representing a brand , I'd try and talk them through it over the phone or email pictures detailing the steps required and then send them some strings and a t-shirt or something to say hey thanks for making this easy '


The weird thing is the 2 wood screws that held the


bostjan said:


> Oh, I agree. It's just that it would take more effort to string it up without the springs attached or string it up and then detach the strings, and I don't think Kiesel would put in that sort of effort. If there was some sort of reason to take the springs off, then maybe. Trying to think of the reason why they would do that, though, and they all require someone to actually give a fuck about something and then stop giving a fuck mid-repair.
> 
> Like, "Oh no, there's a flaw in the finish inside of the trem cavity, we'll have to remove the trem springs and touch it up," or "This trem claw is damaged, we should replace it." Every one of those thoughts would instead be "Meh, no one will notice until the refund window is closed, so fuck it."
> 
> I suppose another option is that someone was being stupid and fucking with the guitar and somehow accidentally popped all of the springs out. Like "Heh heh, hey Jeff, check this out - BOIOIOIOING! Heh heh, cool!" And then Beavis pulls up on the bar so hard that the springs drop out of the guitar. As Beavis tries to put the springs back in, Jeff says "Huh huh, huh huh. Dumbass, this guitar is, like, already done. Just put it back in the case."


It plays great now ! Lol


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## NoodleFace (May 5, 2022)

So we are complaining that strings are broken after traveling internationally. That's a new one


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## prlgmnr (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> The weird thing is the 2 wood screws that held the


Did the rest of this post fall out in transit?


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## spudmunkey (May 5, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> So we are complaining that strings are broken after traveling internationally. That's a new one


Looking at the photo, even the trem itself wasn't seated on both posts. There's _effectively _zero chance someone strung up the guitar without even seating the trem on both posts, without springs, and then just tossed the springs in the case. Like...that's not lazy, you'd have to go out of your way and put in extra work to purposefully do this.


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## estin (May 5, 2022)

Pretty likely customs took it apart when inspecting the package. Can't see how it would be anything else at this point.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> So we are complaining that strings are broken after traveling internationally. That's a new one


I started this thread and that did not come from me,,, the guitar and recipient are of same nation ,,,


estin said:


> Pretty likely customs took it apart when inspecting the package. Can't see how it would be anything else at this point.


This all was state side u.s no customs


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## CanserDYI (May 5, 2022)

Okay I gotta ask, whats up with the commas my man?


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## High Plains Drifter (May 5, 2022)

But without tension on the low side due to the busted strings combined with no tension from the springs not being attached, couldn't everything have looked okay but then upon getting bumped around in transit, the trem worked itself out from the post?


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## DiezelMonster (May 5, 2022)

I love this thread.


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## NoodleFace (May 5, 2022)

spudmunkey said:


> Looking at the photo, even the trem itself wasn't seated on both posts. There's _effectively _zero chance someone strung up the guitar without even seating the trem on both posts, without springs, and then just tossed the springs in the case. Like...that's not lazy, you'd have to go out of your way and put in extra work to purposefully do this.
> 
> View attachment 107273


IMO, for what it's worth - that's probably not Kiesel's doing. I didn't read the whole thing but this looks tampered with


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> IMO, for what it's worth - that's probably not Kiesel's doing. I didn't read the whole thing but this looks tampered with


I got it to a skilled Luthier who mainly is a PRS tech and he got it to spec now I can play it and I'm thankful ,,, I learned a great lesson not buying from a local facility


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## estin (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I started this thread and that did not come from me,,, the guitar and recipient are of same nation ,,,
> 
> This all was state side u.s no customs


ahh thanks, sorry for my false assumption.


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## Viginez (May 5, 2022)

i know when shipped long distance many detune/loosen the strings to relief tension from the neck, so maybe they just didnt tune it for that reason and just put your springs in the case....


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## TedEH (May 5, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Okay I gotta ask, whats up with the commas my man?


Waaaaaaaaait a minute. Why does the comma thing ring a bell? I could have sworn I've seen another user post like that before.

Has anyone asked the obvious question? The "why are you buying custom or semi customs when you admit you're still at the learner stage" question?


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## NoodleFace (May 5, 2022)

To be honest who cares? If you got the money, buy whatever you want


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

TedEH said:


> Waaaaaaaaait a minute. Why does the comma thing ring a bell? I could have sworn I've seen another user post like that before.
> 
> Has anyone asked the obvious question? The "why are you buying custom or semi customs when you admit you're still at the learner stage" question?


Sadly I waited until 2019 I was 57 y/o to buy my 1st guitar fender stratocaster American prof left it in its case, until 2020 I retired March 2 2020 started playing ,,,,then bought a Taylor 214ce koa acoustic in may 2020 , waited til Jan 2021 bought Gibson Les Paul 60s standard , then March bought a Taylor 714ce lol waited til November ordered this kiesel, but in between bought a Gibson SG 61 ..help ... retired and spending the pension money  but ... It's getting easier to play


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Sadly I waited until 2019 I was 57 y/o to buy my 1st guitar fender stratocaster American prof left it in its case, until 2020 I retired March 2 2020 started playing ,,,,then bought a Taylor 214ce koa acoustic in may 2020 , waited til Jan 2021 bought Gibson Les Paul 60s standard , then March bought a Taylor 714ce lol waited til November ordered this kiesel, but in between bought a Gibson SG 61 ..help ... retired and spending the pension money  but ... It's getting easier to play


And you don't want to know my other hobby far more expensive and far dangerous


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> And you don't want to know my other hobby far more expensive and far dangerous


And why custom? I'm left handed only in guitar and writing everything else I'm right hand,,,and I wanted an American made PRS ,,,never going to happen in their U.S made stuff so I bought this kiesel which is a very close replica


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## Puttness (May 5, 2022)

TedEH said:


> Waaaaaaaaait a minute. Why does the comma thing ring a bell? I could have sworn I've seen another user post like that before.
> 
> Has anyone asked the obvious question? The "why are you buying custom or semi customs when you admit you're still at the learner stage" question?


I don't think it matters if the person is committed. It is really only a questionable decision for someone who may drop the hobby or doesn't know what they actually want in their guitar. Also, everyone is at the learner stage and always will be. Just being pedantic there haha. A beginner who's got the money and knows they won't give up on it is just skipping the process of "upgrading" which is a stupid concept anyway. If you're going to eventually buy a custom when you think you are "good enough" for it, then you went through 2-3 less expensive guitars just to end up at the one you really wanted in the first place.

Just my opinion as someone who calls themselves a beginner but owns an ESP custom. I play guitar 4-5 hours a day now up from 30 minutes a day because I have the dream guitar I wanted since I started playing. Sometimes, like for OP and I, it is the only way to get a guitar with the exact specs you want and is a huge motivation to put your nose to the grindstone so your money isn't wasted.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Puttness said:


> I don't think it matters if the person is committed. It is really only a questionable decision for someone who may drop the hobby or doesn't know what they actually want in their guitar. Also, everyone is at the learner stage and always will be. Just being pedantic there haha. A beginner who's got the money and knows they won't give up on it is just skipping the process of "upgrading" which is a stupid concept anyway. If you're going to eventually buy a custom when you think you are "good enough" for it, then you went through 2-3 less expensive guitars just to end up at the one you really wanted in the first place.
> 
> Just my opinion as someone who calls themselves a beginner but owns an ESP custom. I play guitar 4-5 hours a day now up from 30 minutes a day because I have the dream guitar I wanted since I started playing. Sometimes, like for OP and I, it is the only way to get a guitar with the exact specs you want and is a huge motivation to put your nose to the grindstone so your money isn't wasted.


I agree , and I really love playing I play about 1.5 -3 hrs each day very rewarding , don't plan on playing in front of a crowd ,,,and forget the guitars how bout those ridiculous priced AMPS ??? My go-to is the Dr z wreck Jr,,,,and instead of messing w/ pedals or buttons yet I use the boss katana 50 plus it lets me play the acoustic s


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## Puttness (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I agree , and I really love playing I play about 1.5 -3 hrs each day very rewarding , don't plan on playing in front of a crowd ,,,and forget the guitars how bout those ridiculous priced AMPS ??? My go-to is the Dr z wreck Jr,,,,and instead of messing w/ pedals or buttons yet I use the boss katana 50 plus it lets me play the acoustic s


Definitely more rewarding to me because I have been progressing faster than when I was playing my Zemaitis. That guitar is also really nice but not the guitar I went to bed dreaming of playing as a teenager. I put at least 3 hours a day into practicing so I can reach a level where I can play with my friends who are very skilled players. I also use Boss Katanas to save money on pedals, I will say they are not as good as the real deal pedals but they do the job nicely. The only amps I'd spend over $1k on are an Axe FX or a Kemper. At some point I want to get both of those.


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Puttness said:


> Definitely more rewarding to me because I have been progressing faster than when I was playing my Zemaitis. That guitar is also really nice but not the guitar I went to bed dreaming of playing as a teenager. I put at least 3 hours a day into practicing so I can reach a level where I can play with my friends who are very skilled players. I also use Boss Katanas to save money on pedals, I will say they are not as good as the real deal pedals but they do the job nicely. The only amps I'd spend over $1k on are an Axe FX or a Kemper. At some point I want to get both of those.


I was so uneducated on equipment I bought what I thought would be useful, I commend you on your playing time, working I couldn't do it but retired I can,,,,alot of men I know that once played have given it up or rarely do it,,,, hanging them on the wall sad...


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## Sam I am (May 5, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I was so uneducated on equipment I bought what I thought would be useful, I commend you on your playing time, working I couldn't do it but retired I can,,,,alot of men I know that once played have given it up or rarely do it,,,, hanging them on the wall sad...


I have a much older brother in his 70s had to stop due to finger issues he sold a his stuff very sad .


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## CTID (May 5, 2022)

would the modern-looking version of google photos even work on a 9 year old motorola phone?


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

CTID said:


> would the modern-looking version of google photos even work on a 9 year old motorola phone?


I'm not tech savvy but this phone is from 2017 / 5yo


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## Chokey Chicken (May 6, 2022)

Lotta people giving OP grief when all they did was ask a simple question. They weren't even accusatory and ended up happy with the guitar after they got it fixed. 

Admittedly it was an easy fix, I remember being new to floating trems. My idiot brain couldn't figure out why things went out of whack when I changed tuning. 

If I had to venture a guess, I'd just say it was a massive oversight/miscommunication at Kiesel. Things like this happen, even if I can't personally understand how. OP got the guitar fixed and is happy with it, no harm no foul. (the guitar looks nice, by the way.)


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## TedEH (May 6, 2022)

Puttness said:


> It is really only a questionable decision for someone who may drop the hobby or doesn't know what they actually want in their guitar.


As in.... a beginner?

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against buying something just because you want nice things.

I'm just saying, it's pretty common advice not to dive that deep into custom or semi-custom instruments etc., and all the hassle that can come with that, until you've got enough playing time down to both have a good handle on what your specific wants and needs are (there are plenty of lefty guitars out there for less hassle), and to have demonstrated that you really are committed to it in that way. (I mean demonstrate to yourself, to avoid the potential of regretting the decision down the line, if that's a thing you care about - I'm by no means saying someone has to "prove themselves" to "deserve" a nice instrument, or if you just want to own it to hang it on a wall and stare at it - you do you.)


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

TedEH said:


> As in.... a beginner?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against buying something just because you want nice things.
> 
> I'm just saying, it's pretty common advice not to dive that deep into custom or semi-custom instruments etc., and all the hassle that can come with that, until you've got enough playing time down to both have a good handle on what your specific wants and needs are (there are plenty of lefty guitars out there for less hassle), and to have demonstrated that you really are committed to it in that way. (I mean demonstrate to yourself, to avoid the potential of regretting the decision down the line, if that's a thing you care about - I'm by no means saying someone has to "prove themselves" to "deserve" a nice instrument, or if you just want to own it to hang it on a wall and stare at it - you do you.)


I do agree,,,,the problem was I had a window to get these that spanned about 2 yrs and I will be 60 soon,,,I don't know when I'm getting off this bus ride called life, and time they're not making ..then as I've seen the hands / fingers start to go


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## Toejam (May 6, 2022)

Viginez said:


> i know when shipped long distance many detune/loosen the strings to relief tension from the neck, so maybe they just didnt tune it for that reason and just put your springs in the case....


Carvin/Kiesel has never detuned a guitar when shipping out. Nobody should do that, because it's not necessary. Seems most likely it got banged around hard from the delivery company.


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## Neon_Knight_ (May 6, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> Received my new guitar with the vibrato/ tremelo springs laying in the case with guitar and 1 string broke off at tuner a 2nd broke at tuner after calling/emailing to find out what the extra springs were for only to be notified that they belonged in the guitar.... I'm new to guitar and because I play lefty the custom choices are rare, they had the " lead tech " talk with me and he sent a video how to install the springs ,,,only to find out that the wood screws used to tighten the spring holders were so loose the springs did not stay on.... Emailing again it became apparent that this brand has no problem of the consumer repairing a brand new guitar.....I'm not a set up person yet because I'm new into playing, and the 5 + month wait for this thing to be built should not need fully done.....the guitar is beautiful, it had wrong color pick-up rings from order but found no cosmetic issues scratch or dings,, my disparity is :
> 1. No quality control list or final inspection proof... and shipping back across the U.S and then back again with hopes nothing else happens... Which opens up another can ...


I would be sending it back for a full refund (including shipping refund). 

Shipping a brand new $$$$ guitar without it being fully assembled is not a quality control issue. It's a complete lack of respect for the customer.


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> I would be sending it back for a full refund (including shipping refund).
> 
> Shipping a brand new $$$$ guitar without it being fully assembled is not a quality control issue. It's a complete lack of respect for the customer.


This thread is long very long it covers the whole gambit,,,I kept it paid out of pocket for repairs love the guitar...


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 6, 2022)

TedEH said:


> Has anyone asked the obvious question? The "why are you buying custom or semi customs when you admit you're still at the learner stage" question?


That is the effect that social media has had on people. People, especially super young players, feel this unreasonable urge to flex by saying "hey, I've got a nice guitar!" as a way to try to make up for the fact that their playing skills are total shit.

Even before social media got to where it is today, this forum (and some other forums) kind of caused the same effect. Remember around 2009-2013 when EVERYONE was getting a custom-built instrument from a private luthier just to flex on forums, especially here on this forum, because it was like a means of "keeping up with the Joneses"?


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## CanserDYI (May 6, 2022)

I think this will be the mystery of the century for me, and fucked up because I'll most likely never get an answer on to how this came about. Its gonna bug me for years I know myself. I need to know how the springs got outside the cavity. Whether that be FedEX craziness, or Kiesel laziness, I need to know.


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> That is the effect that social media has had on people. People, especially super young players, feel this unreasonable urge to flex by saying "hey, I've got a nice guitar!" as a way to try to make up for the fact that their playing skills are total shit.
> 
> Even before social media got to where it is today, this forum (and some other forums) kind of caused the same effect. Remember around 2009-2013 when EVERYONE was getting a custom-built instrument from a private luthier just to flex on forums, especially here on this forum, because it was like a means of "keeping up with the Joneses"?


Don't know about that I'm 59 and have only been playing 2 yrs this December,,,, I don't have the time to deal with buying and trading up ,,, I am not FLEXING it's a hobby , why pursue it at my age with lesser spec models? ,,I have 5 hard Enduro dirt bikes made in Europe which cost 2 x what a custom guitar does,,, it's all about what one can afford at my stage in life ..it's not pride but a new found passion ...


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## electriceye (May 6, 2022)

TedEH said:


> As in.... a beginner?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against buying something just because you want nice things.
> 
> I'm just saying, it's pretty common advice not to dive that deep into custom or semi-custom instruments etc., and all the hassle that can come with that, until you've got enough playing time down to both have a good handle on what your specific wants and needs are (there are plenty of lefty guitars out there for less hassle), and to have demonstrated that you really are committed to it in that way. (I mean demonstrate to yourself, to avoid the potential of regretting the decision down the line, if that's a thing you care about - I'm by no means saying someone has to "prove themselves" to "deserve" a nice instrument, or if you just want to own it to hang it on a wall and stare at it - you do you.)


Who gives a shit? The guy has the money and wanted something fun to do in retirement. What is wrong with you people? It’s HIS money. What the hell do you care what he does with it if it’s not hurting anyone? And what right do you have to criticize him over it? He came here asking for help and half of you guys outed yourselves for being assholes. Stop it. If you have nothing nice to say to him, then simply don’t comment. 

OP, not everyone here is a dick. I promise. Hope this was all sorted out for you.


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 6, 2022)

What the heck is the connection with shitty guitarists who also collect shitty dirt bikes and then attempt to use the dirt bikes to justify their ownership of a guitar?

_"I need a nice guitar because I have not just one, but MULTIPLE dirt bikes! YEEHAW!"_

I don't understand the connection.

This is some degeneratively-screaming-for-onion-rings-in-a-Burger-King-drive-thru-from-the-window-of-a-rusted-out-pickup-truck-after-muddin'-with-the-boys-and-guzzlin'-some-Budweisers-at-the-trailer-park type of shit with the OP and his responses in this thread.


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## TedEH (May 6, 2022)

electriceye said:


> Who gives a shit?


Clearly OP did, because it came to him in a state he wasn't prepared for, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

I'm NOT saying don't buy nice things if you want. I don't care if he spent a million dollars on a _photo_ of a nice guitar, he can do as he pleases. The _advice_ that it's a safer route not to jump into semi/customs right away still stands. That's it. If he's happy with how it worked out, then all the power to him. He did come to the forum asking for advice though. It's not a criticism or some arbitrary bar someone has to meet to be "good enough" to have nice things - it's just general advice. There's no need to get defensive about it.

Maybe think of it this way instead: If he'd gone into a store, picked out the most expensive instrument, was able to inspect it to his liking in person, and went home with it and was happy - we'd have no thread, OP would still be happy with the result, etc. Zero problems. The advice isn't meant to avoid anyone having things they want, it's to avoid the situation of "I ordered a thing online without the experience to know what to expect - and it arrived in a state I wasn't prepared for - now I don't know what to do and have to reach out to strangers on the internet to straiten it out".


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 6, 2022)

TedEH said:


> The _advice_ that it's a safer route not to jump into semi/customs right away still stands. That's it.


Nailed it.

If you're brand new to playing an instrument, then you don't need to be shelling out for a custom or semi-custom build because you:
1.) aren't prepared for what can (and probably will) go wrong in the process (Murphy's law)
2.) don't know what you want as far as specs (takes years to figure this out even for a first build commission)
3.) more than likely don't understand the process of custom or semi-custom building

This isn't a _"it's the guy's money, let him do what he wants"_ type of situation. This is merely *advice* to a beginner; and the OP is absolutely admittedly a beginner in his own words.


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Nailed it.
> 
> If you're brand new to playing an instrument, then you don't need to be shelling out for a custom or semi-custom build because you:
> 1.) aren't prepared for what can (and probably will) go wrong in the process (Murphy's law)
> ...


I respect that I do ....but ol kat is now 6 guitars and 14,000 into now lol  wife says I better be playing like " Willie Nelson " by years end !


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I respect that I do ....but ol kat is now 6 guitars and 14,000 into now lol  wife says I better be playing like " Willie Nelson " by years end !


And that's not including amps cord pics chairs and wine


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## TedEH (May 6, 2022)

I'll reiterate - just to give it it's own post:

If OP is now happy with what he's got, all the power to him. It's a learning experience for next time, or for anyone observing. All is well.


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## Pandaonslaught (May 6, 2022)

"i requested it" but i also refused?


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

TedEH said:


> I'll reiterate - just to give it it's own post:
> 
> If OP is now happy with what he's got, all the power to him. It's a learning experience for next time, or for anyone observing. All is well.


I never knew there was so much to learn on this type of stringed instrument,,,here after watching that blammed up kid on the movie " deliverance " out playing Hendrix,Clapton,and page with a banjo ...


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## Emperor Guillotine (May 6, 2022)

Sam I am said:


> I respect that I do ....but ol kat is now 6 guitars and 14,000 into now lol  wife says I better be playing like " Willie Nelson " by years end !


> states dollar amount publicly on forum as if gloating (what is it with boomers doing this all the time?)
> $14,000 really ain't that much when split amongst six instruments
> "Willie Nelson"

This right here just further solidifies my comments above. (#121 and #123.) This is everything that is wrong with this thread.


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## Sam I am (May 6, 2022)

Pandaonslaught said:


> View attachment 107322
> 
> "i requested it" but i also refused?
> View attachment 107323


Hila


Emperor Guillotine said:


> > states dollar amount publicly on forum as if gloating
> > $14,000 really ain't that much when split amongst six instruments
> > "Willie Nelson"
> 
> This right here just further solidifies my comments above. (#121 and #123.) This is everything that is wrong with this thread.


Exactly my point , others saying on here not to buy the good stuff,,,as I stated earlier I have dirt bikes that cost more ,,,they will end up in a scrap yard but the guitars well


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## MaxOfMetal (May 6, 2022)

Dude is enjoying a new hobby in his twilight years. We should all be so lucky.

Congrats @Sam I am , have fun and feel free to check out the forum for any tips and tricks.

I'm closing this thread as the issue seems resolved and ol' EmperorNoFun is dead set on harshing your mellow.


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