# Etherial Guitars



## jkiernanguitar

So I'm looking into getting a new guitar and I've been in conversation with the guys at Etherial Guitars. All carbon fiber bodies, beautiful works. I was wondering if anyone has had the experience of playing one and if they could shed some insight on them. They look great and some of their artists show some great tone from them!

Home - Custom Made Electric Guitars For Sale - Etherial

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Solo album debut track!


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## thrsher

i currently have a build in progress with them but thats all i can really offer. i think two or three people on the board have guitars from them


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## LIPCoelhoq

i'd like to know a bit more about them too


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## HOKENSTYFE

My good brother Kim Forbes, who is an endorsed guitarist with Etherial, has his signature, Miranis Taranis. And it's pretty hot. I haven't played it but, he raves about it all the time. Check out his Facebook page or PM him here. Kimthebutcher. Super easy to talk to and he will give you his honest opinion.

Matt is a pretty swell guy. I've been specing out a guitar with him for about a year. I'm taking my time to get it right. 

The Exotype boys just got their guitars done. I can't wait to hear their take on them.

I got some time invested with Etherial so I plan on following this thread. 

Good Luck-


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## CaptainLuckeyBeard

I've actually been talking with Matt for a few months now getting a bass drawn up and I know I couldn't be more excited. Its not all carbon fiber, I like the natural finishes that really show off the grain and he has access to a lot of cool australian timber that a lot of other builders wouldn't have immediately available. Super easy guy to work with and I've talked a little to Sarah Longfield who has a custom also and she had nothing but great things to say about Etherial


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## MetalBuddah

NaYoN has that crazy 9 string, torn-inspired guitar and I have played around on it a bit and it definitely a solid instrument. He is genuinely happy with it and from what he was saying about how Matt runs things over there, the instrument is truly a custom, a.k.a exactly to his specs, instruments. He was even telling me that he went to some other custom companies (2 of which are highly respect around here) before hand and they refused to do anything remotely crazy/out of the ordinary. Which to me kinda defeats the purpose of a custom guitar. When he found Etherial, he was very pleased to find out that Matt will pretty much do whatever you tell him to do when it comes to making your instrument. 

If I ever decide that I can justify ordering a guitar like that, I will definitely consider Etherial.


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## capoeiraesp

I'm probably gonna get burned for this, but here it goes. 

Etherial have some cool stuff going for them and they're crafting their own niche market in today's guitar builders. Their recent builds have some very unique finishes with the clever use of carbon fibre wraps and glow in the dark inlays. They also stand out as a very open minded builder that appreciates unique concepts. Kudos to them/him. 

That said, I'm not convinced about their consistency of quality. I only came across them a year or so ago and I was honestly laughing when I saw the quality of finishes being done eg poorly cut nuts, rough finishes, inlays with too much filler, 'interesting' intonation,and some unique side markers. Yes, most of these issues seem to have been rectified as of late (I'm assuming they're using CNC for glow in the dark inlays and vinyl wraps or something for bodies - my apologies if I'm totally wrong.
Looking at Chris Storey's recent 7 sorta brought up my feelings I had about older Etherial guitars. The headstock in particular just looked unfinished. 






I realize that most guys here care more about playability than looks. Well that seems to be the argument when finishes of custom guitars aren't quite up there. I've not played an Etherial so I may not be worthy of commenting here but after having a very high quality custom built and building my own guitar, I have learned a lot about the little things that really make a custom, world class guitar. 

I'll finish on this. If you've got a concept and Etherial is the only one willing to take it on then go for it. It will probably be a pretty sweet instrument but just be mindful of what I've said here and be sure to have a thorough look at Etherial's builds, past and present.


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## HOKENSTYFE

What a sec my good man. If you have some more to say, say it. You may be on to something. It always starts with someone who had an issue and never said anything, that allows a company to get big and crash. The recent S7 is a good example. 

People don't want to say anything because of tempting supporters of a brand to lash back. I for one, would like to hear all you have to say. As long as it is verifiable and backed by pictures or, some sort of ownership proof. That picture looks telling. I have seen Chris' recent Etherial build, I dig it, a lot. Is that a picture from that one of his?

We all need more transparency nowadays with custom instrument builders. So if you have some information, I would appreciate the heads up. Maybe things were done different before or whatever. If you were to raise some points that I could pick up on, when specing out a guitar with Matt. I could stop him from facetiously using those same methods.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## capoeiraesp

In light of Strictly 7's situation and your desire for me to explain myself more, here it goes. 





It's simply not tidy work. 





An older build but I'm sure you can see what's going on here. 









This is not so major but again, paint masking lines around the neck and heal just don't look clean. 





Excessive grain filler. 





Just take a close look at this. 

I probably look like a totally arrogant dick for pointing this stuff out, particularly since most pics here are from 'older' builds. There were some other pics but I just can't find the right now. 
There are definitely other builders out there who will take on unique concepts. Etherial seem to have a reasonably good build time but who knows what strain increased demand could place on that. 
As many before have said. Pick 2 of the following - time, quality or price.


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## Pikka Bird

Agree with capoeiraesp on all points. Even on recent builds, sadly... And I do think their tribal design aesthetic is like something out of a 13 year old boy's school notebook. The cuber stuff is _much nicer and more "accomplished", so to speak. They may have the structural elements down, but the finishing touches on their woodworking are far behind from what I've seen... Granted, I haven't seen many detail shots of anything since that Longfield thingy, except for that Tron-looking 8 stringer. I have browsed through their Facebook page and saw the usual shortcomings in their wooden builds, but I did like most of their cyber builds, which looked nice, but the inlays on those don't exactly require what I'd call traditional inlaying craftsmanship._


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## capoeiraesp

So, just going back to the OP, has this helped at all? Also, I'm not 100% certain that Etherial use carbon fibre bodies as such. I believe a polymer body of some kind is used and then a carbon fibre wrap is applied. I could be wrong though and they may now be offering full carbon fibre bodies.


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## Danukenator

capoeiraesp said:


> So, just going back to the OP, has this helped at all? Also, I'm not 100% certain that Etherial use carbon fibre bodies as such. I believe a polymer body of some kind is used and then a carbon fibre wrap is applied. I could be wrong though and they may now be offering full carbon fibre bodies.



To my knowledge, this is what was done on the Tron guitar. I have seen or heard that they started doing full carbon fiber stuff.


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## ECGuitars

capoeiraesp said:


> In light of Strictly 7's situation and your desire for me to explain myself more, here it goes.
> Just take a close look at this.
> 
> I probably look like a totally arrogant dick for pointing this stuff out, particularly since most pics here are from 'older' builds. There were some other pics but I just can't find the right now.
> There are definitely other builders out there who will take on unique concepts. Etherial seem to have a reasonably good build time but who knows what strain increased demand could place on that.
> As many before have said. Pick 2 of the following - time, quality or price.



Dude you don't look like a dick at all, poorly routing an inlay and trying to make a piece fit and slapping some filler in it is just shoddy workmanship. I don't care what anyone says. If you are going to go out and do all these inlays, at least make an effort to make it look clean, customers deserve better than that. It's cool that he's out there doing what he enjoys, but IMO his quality/consistency is not on a level for him to warrant the prices he is charging... Just my two cents


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## capoeiraesp

Thanks dude. 
I've had a more thorough look at other pics and builds and there's instances where imperfections and sloppy work were on par with an Emperion guitar I bought years ago. Enjoyment and passion for the job is one thing, but being good at photoshop doesn't qualify you as a quality builder. I love Etherial's concepts and the imaginative nature of guitars like Noyan's Tron model have given me a great idea for a custom. I think more attention to detail or perhaps taking on less complicated/ambitious builds until the art/skill is developed may be a better approach.

Edit:
So, this is a very recent build, based on when the photos were uploaded. There's also a few others. 
Please don't take this the wrong way. After seeing the BRJ and Strictly 7 issues I would rather this is out now instead of 1-2 years. 





What happened to the bridge mounting screws?





Why aren't the side markers squared-off and tidy?





I hope it's just lighting but I doubt it. That's a dent in the neck from not being caved properly. And that control cavity hasn't been recessed, nor have the screws. 





The edge of that cutaway is not smooth.





This is an older one but jeez, why are there still router/sander burns?





These bridges would only need to be cut that deep if the neck angle was not calculated properly.


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## HOKENSTYFE

@capoeiraesp - Thanks for the heads up. I have noticed the Longfield last year and the fretboard/neck of some other builds. The turn around time is a plus and the designs are also sensational. Etherial has a lot of ambition going on. But the problems that are going on seem more rushed than anything else. They don't seem like there incompetence or careless. That, plus Etherial is relatively new.

As long as the issues are what they are, this company can recover. I will take my time with Etherial though. I want to give them time to get comfortable, experienced and more savvy in their direction. 

I for one, thank you for the time put in to exposing the problems.


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## jkiernanguitar

Sorry for not responding to the thread:

This definitely brings a lot of things to light. On more recent builds, Etherial's craftsmanship has skyrocketed. I've been looking deeper into many of these things and I've seen that since the work has been more carbon fiber builds, Etherial's work has been much cleaner and precise. I've heard some good tone tests from them as well and I can't complain. 

I'm going to be working with them on a guitar coming shortly with art done by Spire Art (the art here is not the guitar art, but a sample of April, the artist's, work):
Spire Art (April Ness)'s Photos | Facebook


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## Wings of Obsidian

I have a build underway with Matt.

Now all you guys are just being damn nitpicky. We are talking about one guy slaving away by himself to do everything. In case you haven't noticed, Matt has now finished and shipped out six custom built guitars in the past month. Now, speed is not what I am getting at. But he takes his time with the process. I am sorry that every damn Gibson turns out perfect coming from the assembly line where fifty people build guitars day-after-day, hour-after-hour, doing the same shit every day until they become good at it. (*sarcasm*) Mass production guitars can have their flaws too!

I have full faith and confidence in Matt's abilities as a luthier. While I am not supporting nor backing anything in this thread, nor am I necessarily backing his craftsmanship, I am slightly nervous that there could be little "flaws" like this. But for now, I am overlooking my slight fear.


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## capoeiraesp

Wings of Obsidian, I can understand your perspective on what I have pointed out and I know it would be tough given that you have a vested interest in the brand as a customer. I don't believe that what I've pointed out is 'nitpicky' (That superstrat with the horned headstock is a recent build and I've only pointed out 4 pretty obvious flaws, there are others) because there are a number of other solo custom builders out there who produce quite a number of guitars in a reasonable period of time too. The big difference is you don't see these sorts of imperfections (that's what they are) in their builds. 
Just to note, Gibson do not produce consistently high quality guitars either, I can assure you of that.

I don't doubt that these guitars can probably sound pretty mean, what with modern production techniques and wonderful amps and equipment. 
Let me ask you this. If you were buying an off the shelf production guitar like ESP, Schecter or Jackson, would you be content with any 4 of the issues that I pointed out above?
Granted they're not custom, but when you're throwing thousands of dollars at a custom build, why should you have to put up with that many 'minor' flaws?

I understand that Etherial is an excellent option for having great, imaginative guitar concepts realised, more guitar builders should be as open-minded. The reality is, if you're spending large amounts of hard-earned cash, you shouldn't be receiving guitars that are below an industry standard for quality. 
Just because Etherial's guitars are cheaper than most custom builders and you get more 'bang for buck', it doesn't excuse cutting corners and producing poorly finished guitars. Clearly more time is required to get things right so maybe their prices should be higher.


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## Thrashmanzac

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I have a build underway with Matt.
> 
> Now all you guys are just being damn nitpicky. We are talking about one guy slaving away by himself to do everything. In case you haven't noticed, Matt has now finished and shipped out six custom built guitars in the past month. Now, speed is not what I am getting at. But he takes his time with the process. I am sorry that every damn Gibson turns out perfect coming from the assembly line where fifty people build guitars day-after-day, hour-after-hour, doing the same shit every day until they become good at it. (*sarcasm*) Mass production guitars can have their flaws too!
> 
> I have full faith and confidence in Matt's abilities as a luthier. While I am not supporting nor backing anything in this thread, nor am I necessarily backing his craftsmanship, I am slightly nervous that there could be little "flaws" like this. But for now, I am overlooking my slight fear.



so he churned out six guitars in a month by himself and you think that's a good thing? Jesus the glue would still be wet on some of those wouldn't they? 
from what i have seen from this company there is no way i would put my cash down on one.


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## AwDeOh

I wonder if Sarah Longfield or any others playing Etherials could weigh in here?


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## foreright

capoeiraesp said:


> Let me ask you this. If you were buying an off the shelf production guitar like ESP, Schecter or Jackson, would you be content with any 4 of the issues that I pointed out above?



IMO this is the crux of the matter... if I had bought a production guitar, even a relatively cheap one with some of the "issues" highlighted above, it would be going back for replacement quick smart. This is far less acceptable on a "custom" instrument where you've paid a lot more... If I were throwing thousands of dollars/pounds/whatever at a custom build, I'd certainly not expect to receive it with obvious cosmetic flaws.

Edit: The above sounds a little harsh - Etherial are really putting some amazing stuff out there. The "tron" guitar is truly astounding for example. It's just the attention to detail and the final finishing touches that elevates a luthier above the rest


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## HOKENSTYFE

I was immediately floored when I first saw Matt's, Ephemeral Veil 8-string. Wanted one. Needed one. But, I recognized that as some sub-G.A.S. As time has gone on, I have come to realize Etherial Guitars is a work in progress. Nobody is doing what Matt is doing, bottom line. He is making mistakes, in the same breath.

This is an innovative custom shop and it's making serious waves, early in it's development. I hope Matt is learning from his mistakes and we are truly witnessing something awesome. 

This thread is making me reconsider Etherial and consider AcaciA. It's good to be sure though. 

Good luck to everyone involved.


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## jkiernanguitar

AwDeOh said:


> I wonder if Sarah Longfield or any others playing Etherials could weigh in here?



I've talked to Sarah Longfield before about the guitar and she said she's loved the instrument. The only thing she would have changed is not getting Bareknuckles in it XD


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## BIG ND SWEATY

jkiernanguitar said:


> I'm going to be working with them on a guitar coming shortly with art done by Spire Art (the art here is not the guitar art, but a sample of April, the artist's, work):
> Spire Art (April Ness)'s Photos | Facebook



not to shit on your taste in art but that style really irritates me, theres absolutely no flow or symmetry to it, its just a bunch of random stuff thrown together for no reason


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## jkiernanguitar

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> not to shit on your taste in art but that style really irritates me, theres absolutely no flow or symmetry to it, its just a bunch of random stuff thrown together for no reason



I love her art. It has a bit of tribal/Final Fantasy which are things that I'm huge into. There are some pieces of hers that have symmetry, but the build I'm doing has a load of symmetry. I can't wait to unleash it


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## Winspear

jkiernanguitar said:


> I've talked to Sarah Longfield before about the guitar and she said she's loved the instrument. The only thing she would have changed is not getting Bareknuckles in it XD




Check out post #9..
Each to their own and maybe it plays fine, but not many people would be happy with a custom looking that rough.


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## LIPCoelhoq

this is such a boner breaker  i was really digging the Etherial vibe


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## jkiernanguitar

The Noyan build is pretty flawless. The Exotype guitars are the most recent and they are pretty damn incredible. Check them out as well. Those are expertly crafted.


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## Alberto7

jkiernanguitar said:


> The Noyan build is pretty flawless. The Exotype guitars are the most recent and they are pretty damn incredible. Check them out as well. Those are expertly crafted.



Holy shit, I had not seen those... 

EDIT: Apart from NoYan's.

EDIT 2: I mean... http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.412246928868747.96041.214731091953666&type=3


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## Konfyouzd

They do some damn cool stuff, but I feel like their work could be cleaner.


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## Alberto7

Konfyouzd said:


> They do some damn cool stuff, but I feel like their work could be cleaner.



Yep, that's exactly the premise of this thread, I reckon.

I find their designs to be excellent, and I love how they've had their own kind of vibe (look-wise, at least) from the get-go. But their work does seem rather sloppy. Not horrible, but sloppy. I see them as a work in progress. Hopefully their newer builds really are better, and hopefully they'll just keep getting better. I feel their designs really do merit a higher standard of craftsmanship.


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## Konfyouzd

Someone on here just recently got one I thought was pretty cool. The back was all blue I think. And it had these trippy ninja star looking things all over it.


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## Overtone

The more recent builds have pulled off some cool ideas fairly well. I'm surprised nobody has ragged on their headstocks yet... they are gigantic... even the headless guitar for some reason looks exceptionally wide and stocky to me.


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## jkiernanguitar

Overtone said:


> The more recent builds have pulled off some cool ideas fairly well. I'm surprised nobody has ragged on their headstocks yet... they are gigantic... even the headless guitar for some reason looks exceptionally wide and stocky to me.



You know what they say about people with gigantic headstocks....


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## Valennic

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I have a build underway with Matt.
> 
> Now all you guys are just being damn nitpicky. We are talking about one guy slaving away by himself to do everything. In case you haven't noticed, Matt has now finished and shipped out six custom built guitars in the past month. Now, speed is not what I am getting at. But he takes his time with the process. I am sorry that every damn Gibson turns out perfect coming from the assembly line where fifty people build guitars day-after-day, hour-after-hour, doing the same shit every day until they become good at it. (*sarcasm*) Mass production guitars can have their flaws too!
> 
> I have full faith and confidence in Matt's abilities as a luthier. While I am not supporting nor backing anything in this thread, nor am I necessarily backing his craftsmanship, I am slightly nervous that there could be little "flaws" like this. But for now, I am overlooking my slight fear.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say that quantity doesn't mean jack shit. Most of us who care about a quality product do not give a single flying fuck about how many guitars a luthier can put out in a month. That means literally nothing. Small flaws on something that costs thousands is unacceptable. Literally. It's bullshit. If a luthier has the gall to charge that much, then you have every right to "nitpick". Have you bothered to think about all the other guys who are one man operations who DON'T have all these problems? Daemoness and Vik are two that immediately come to mind. Artinger too. 

In case you haven't noticed, a custom is not a production model. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever. It doesn't matter if Gibson has flaws, they're made by people who don't give a shit. A luthier is SUPPOSED to give a shit. That's what you pay for.

If you had confidence in his abilities, you wouldn't worry about flaws. In my personal opinion, worrying about flaws in a build you're waiting months for and putting out thousand for, should not be a thing. 

Stop defending him. He fucked up, and I believe he admitted it in the past, and if he didn't, shame. It's a learning process, guitar building that is, but you shouldn't sell to people before it meets your own standards. And if these are his standards, then he should probably think about raising his personal bar, or getting some more practice in on guitars that AREN'T' coming out of other peoples paychecks.

His concepts are badass. Incredible in fact. Execution just leaves a lot to be desired in some builds, where it's pretty good in others. Inconsistency is the death of small luthiers. So if he wants to take this seriously, he should take that into consideration.


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## AwDeOh

Seems to me that he has the talent to make it as a builder. He just needs to slow down and not put every last idea on the page into a guitar.


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## BlackMastodon

I think his carbon fiber builds look a lot better than the tribal ones. The tribal designs just seemed incredibly tacky to me; I actually laughed at the initial photoshop mockups that were dripping with tribal patterns and weird colours. But after NoYaN's build I think there is definitely hope for this guy. Like everyone said, though, he has quite a few things to work on but if he can iron those out then he should do quite well as he does put out a pretty damn original product.


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## capoeiraesp

I don't tend to believe that the recent carbon fibre builds are all that much better. Yes, they have full body wraps but that just makes it easier to cover things up i.e. your attention is drawn to all the cool designs and glow in the dark aspects.

This is by no means an attack on Noyan as a person or player, but look closely at these pics.






If I received a BRAND NEW custom guitar, I would not be happy that mounting or intonation screws and bridge itself had ANY damage or scratches. It's supposed to be a brand spankin' new instrument. Again, the intonation looks questionable to say the least. 
The bridge extension piece on the high e (1st string) is the wrong way around. 





Why is nut arced so sharply towards the treble end of the fretboard?
Have a close look at the pickups. There's a lot more length from them on the treble side than on the bass side, so what does this mean for alignment of the bobbins underneath?






I get it, this nut probably works but there's no good, skilled reason as to why it should be cut so wide and deep. The strings can potentially rattle and slide around. Also, they hit the headstock and the truss rod cover, causing friction, which will cause tuning problems, especially when using the tremolo.
I know that Kahler don't make locking nuts for multiscale tremolos but a brass nut that does not have smooth slots is going to also add a fair bit of friction. I can only assume that Noyan doesn't use the tremolo for dive-bombs because it won't keep tune. 





Glow in the dark paint is simply an additive, added to normal paint. Clear, colours, all the same. It's no harder to mask the line for glow in the dark, as it is for normal paint. So why aren't these lines clean and consistent?


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## ExtendedRange

Guys, if we act fast, we can sully the reputation of this company as well!


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## capoeiraesp

Can we please keep this thread civil?
I am pointing things out as a matter of accountability, not to sully, defame or maliciously attack Etherial. Given that its hard to portray intention and emotion in text I will leave it open to you all to interpret my intentions.


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## Alberto7

capoeiraesp said:


> I don't tend to believe that the recent carbon fibre builds are all that much better. Yes, they have full body wraps but that just makes it easier to cover things up i.e. your attention is drawn to all the cool designs and glow in the dark aspects.
> 
> This is by no means an attack on Noyan as a person or player, but look closely at these pics.
> 
> IMAGE 1:
> If I received a BRAND NEW custom guitar, I would not be happy that mounting or intonation screws and bridge itself had ANY damage or scratches. It's supposed to be a brand spankin' new instrument. Again, the intonation looks questionable to say the least.
> The bridge extension piece on the high e (1st string) is the wrong way around.
> 
> IMAGE 2:
> Why is nut arced so sharply towards the treble end of the fretboard?
> Have a close look at the pickups. There's a lot more length from them on the treble side than on the bass side, so what does this mean for alignment of the bobbins underneath?
> 
> 
> IMAGE 3:
> I get it, this nut probably works but there's no good, skilled reason as to why it should be cut so wide and deep. The strings can potentially rattle and slide around. Also, they hit the headstock and the truss rod cover, causing friction, which will cause tuning problems, especially when using the tremolo.
> I know that Kahler don't make locking nuts for multiscale tremolos but a brass nut that does not have smooth slots is going to also add a fair bit of friction. I can only assume that Noyan doesn't use the tremolo for dive-bombs because it won't keep tune.
> 
> IMAGE 4:
> Glow in the dark paint is simply an additive, added to normal paint. Clear, colours, all the same. It's no harder to mask the line for glow in the dark, as it is for normal paint. So why aren't these lines clean and consistent?



Image 1: I do not see any scratches on it. It looks fine. The high e saddle is just different to the rest. I don't see how it is backwards in any way (perhaps I'm not looking at it right... but I really tried, and it looks like a different piece altogether, but not backwards [also worth noting that I am not very familiar with Kahler bridges and their components... much less the 9-string version of it]).

Image 2: I don't see anything weird with the nut on this picture. Perhaps you're looking too hard to find a mistake on it? As for the pickups, perhaps they're rail pickups (I do not remember what kinds of pickups NaYon had put in). As for the slanting, the pickups don't always have to be perfectly aligned with each other. It's a matter of preference in tone and looks (as long as the pole pieces are aligned. I'm assuming they're rail pickups).

Image 3: I actually kind of agree with you. The nut looks like it could have been done better. But it doesn't look like it would be much of a problem as it is.

Image 4: The glow-in-the-dark stripes are actually inlays, not improperly masked paint stripes. Etherial guitars don't do the most accurate inlay work, that's for sure. It's an art to be mastered. I hope they're truly on a learning curve.


Just saying my thoughts about the things you pointed out


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## capoeiraesp

Image 1: Look at the lower right mounting screw, the black finish has been scratched off. The same applies for several of the intonation screws. I can understand that many players wouldn't be bothered by such things, it's going to happen over time anyway. Personally, a brand new instrument means everything is brand new and without tarnishing.
The high e saddle is the wrong way around. 
https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2233-9string-multi-scale

Image 2: There is clearly a downward arc in the nut. Not a big deal I suppose.
The pickups are not rails.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418868_412471465456934_2144271339_n.jpg

With further regards to the pickups and their bobbins and spacing, I'll put it this way. Why would companies like Seymour Duncan and BKP offer tremolo and standard spaced pickups if having bobbins align correctly is of no importance?
String Spacing Explained: Humbuckers vs Trembuckers | Seymour Duncan Blog

Image 3: You've overlooked the fact that the strings are touching the truss-rod cover and headstock.

Image 4: We can certainly agree upon.


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## Hollowway

Just to chime in support for capoeiraesp, he is not the only one that notices these things. And it is IMPERATIVE that these things be pointed out. Nothing against Etherial, either. But I for one have been burned to the tune of $6000 on a couple of customs that I had no warning that the guitar company did shoddy work (it's not any of the builders currently in the news on here, FWIW). I was heart broken that this happened because of the money and time invested from my side. Shortly after it became common knowledge that this company couldn't do good work, despite their cool designs and good intentions. 

So, there are a lot of subjective stuff people can say that would cast an undeserved bad light on a luthier. But pointing out stuff we can all see is not only acceptable, but, IMO, appreciated.


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## Alberto7

capoeiraesp said:


> Image 1: Look at the lower right mounting screw, the black finish has been scratched off. The same applies for several of the intonation screws. I can understand that many players wouldn't be bothered by such things, it's going to happen over time anyway. Personally, a brand new instrument means everything is brand new and without tarnishing.
> The high e saddle is the wrong way around.
> https://www.kahlerusa.com/guitar-tremolo-and-bridge/2233-9string-multi-scale
> 
> Image 2: There is clearly a downward arc in the nut. Not a big deal I suppose.
> The pickups are not rails.
> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418868_412471465456934_2144271339_n.jpg
> 
> With further regards to the pickups and their bobbins and spacing, I'll put it this way. Why would companies like Seymour Duncan and BKP offer tremolo and standard spaced pickups if having bobbins align correctly is of no importance?
> String Spacing Explained: Humbuckers vs Trembuckers | Seymour Duncan Blog
> 
> Image 3: You've overlooked the fact that the strings are touching the truss-rod cover and headstock.
> 
> Image 4: We can certainly agree upon.



Well, I gotta say that you have a better eye than I do, sir .

Image 1: Now I see the scratches you were talking about (that's why I can't have a custom guitar... I'd overlook so many details ). As far as the saddles, they just look completely different to me. Still not sure how it's backwards. It just looks like a different piece altogether. But I won't argue against that. It doesn't look like in the picture you linked to (in fact, a lot of the saddle pieces don't ), and I don't know what it's supposed to be like. I believe you. I see you have more experience with them than I do. All's good!

Image 2: I don't know what to make out of the nut slanting thing. I don't personally see anything weird with it (again, my eyes aren't proving very useful, now are they? ). I also stand corrected with the pickup issue. Now that's weird. I hadn't seen that he had pole'd pickups (those are BKP's, yeah?). I'll also add that I completely agree with the fact that pole pieces and strings should be aligned. I was assuming these were rail pickups (which you've duly pointed out that they aren't), in which case alignment wouldn't matter.

Image 3: It's true, I forgot to mention that. I apologize for that. I do suppose that could pose an issue to tuning stability. Not to mention your truss rod would probably look all scratched after some time.

Image 4: Jeez, at least I got that right... 


TL;DR: In retrospect, my post was pretty uninformed. I don't know what prompted me to write it. I apologize for that, and I stand corrected on whatever I had to be corrected  

Oh, and Hollowway, I 100% agree with you. I appreciate what capoeiraesp is doing here. I just thought he might have been looking a little too hard. Turns out I was just mostly uninformed. I couldn't add anything else to what you said, to be honest.


----------



## TemjinStrife

When thousands of dollars are on the line and you can get something that is flawless from a production guitar available immediately or almost immediately, it is VERY important to sweat the small things.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, and it's not so much that I (or others) are intolerant of imperfections. I just want to know what I'm getting into. Heck, I'm a HUGE Agile fan, and Agiles are known to have a certain battery of shortcomings. So when I buy an Agile I know what to expect, and I weight that expectation against the potential downsides that there are, so I'm not surprised when I get the instrument.


----------



## AwDeOh

How much does he charge for his guitars?


----------



## NaYoN

Hey guys,

The guitar shipped from Australia to the US. Let that sink in for a second. Australia was having record high temperatures (around 50C) whereas it was pretty cold around where I was (10C or less). Some things needed tuning up (intonation, bridge, truss rod, strings touching the truss rod etc), but I was excited and just went and took pictures. The guitar was not set up. Judging stuff like string positions and stuff based on that is unfair. Finally, the nut picture was taken with my iPhone camera, and that's the HDR image which means it averages between several images that have hand tremor, so there is some spatial aberration in that picture. Don't judge slant of the nut too much from that pic.

Also remember that this is a multiscale instrument, some comments seem to have not taken that in mind. The nut is slanted because the frets are fanned.

The size of the pickups covers isn't based on the actual size of the pickup, it's based on the original design Matt and I made together. Speculating on the slant of the pickups based on the position of the cover is pointless.

As for the apparent wear on some parts of the guitar, it's dust. My house was very dusty at the time because my vacuum cleaner was broken, and the fresh guitar was a dust magnet.

The glow is NOT PAINT FFS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS, IT IS AN INLAY. Also, it is not consistent in that picture because the glow does not always charge consistently. 

The nut slots are a bit wide because I was not specific on string gauges so he made them larger to accommodate various gauges. In fact, now I use much thicker strings and the extra space helps.

As for the headstock size, that's totally optional. If you don't like it, ask him to make you a smaller headstock.


Feel free to ask me any questions about the build, but please do not baselessly speculate and ruin Matt's reputation because he is a really cool guy, he works hard and he has a good work ethic. Instead of one sided armchair criticism, please talk with people who have worked with him before jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to defend Matt unreasonably, I'm just saying that so far there has been a lot of negativity in this thread (some warranted) but the positives need to be heard too.

As MetalBuddah said, I approached several other companies with my plans for my guitar, and not one of them were able to fulfill some of my most basic requirements. Etherial was the only one that could actually realize the guitar that I wanted. Mind you, my guitar was his first carbon fiber build and his first 9 string build, and I went in understanding the risks of that, but the end result is great.

Also, he is very open to feedback and he constantly sends you tons of pictures as he works on your build, and if you see any problems with the process, you can tell him and he fixes it right away. It's an interactive process, not a "talk to him once and get a guitar 6 months later" process.


----------



## MetalBuddah

IMHO, Noyan's guitar is pretty incredible and these "flaws" do not sully the guitar itself in any way, shape, or form. You guys just feel the unquenchable need to nitpick over EVERYTHING EVER.

 from a guy who actually has held the instrument in his hands.....


----------



## Hollowway

MetalBuddah said:


> IMHO, Noyan's guitar is pretty incredible and these "flaws" do not sully the guitar itself in any way, shape, or form. You guys just feel the unquenchable need to nitpick over EVERYTHING EVER.
> 
> from a guy who actually has held the instrument in his hands.....



Dude, no one said the flaws sully the instrument. Just that there are things about Etherial that are not perfect. I happen to really like Noyan's instrument and would LOVE to own it. I admire both his and Matt's creativity and willingness to make such and instrument. But don't act like people aren't allowed to point out anything wrong. That's the first step to improvement in anything.


----------



## NaYoN

Hollowway said:


> Dude, no one said the flaws sully the instrument. Just that there are things about Etherial that are not perfect. I happen to really like Noyan's instrument and would LOVE to own it. I admire both his and Matt's creativity and willingness to make such and instrument. But don't act like people aren't allowed to point out anything wrong. That's the first step to improvement in anything.



As I pointed out above, many of the flaws are not necessarily flaws, read my long post right above his post. I think that's why he said "flaws" in quotes.

Etherial do have flaws, but they're getting better. From what I've seen and heard from the other Etherial guys, each instrument gets better and better.


----------



## Hollowway

Noyan, wasn't he going to make this a signature guitar, too? I seem to remember we could buy one just like yours (without feeling guilty for replicating your exact design!)


----------



## NaYoN

Hollowway said:


> Noyan, wasn't he going to make this a signature guitar, too? I seem to remember we could buy one just like yours (without feeling guilty for replicating your exact design!)



It won't be the exact same because mine has my name on the back of the neck (others can't do that, it's a stipulation) 

But yes, here are the specs and stuff (you can change whatever you want)








Quoting my post from the previous page so it doesn't get buried:



NaYoN said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> The guitar shipped from Australia to the US. Let that sink in for a second. Australia was having record high temperatures (around 50C) whereas it was pretty cold around where I was (10C or less). Some things needed tuning up (intonation, bridge, truss rod, strings touching the truss rod etc), but I was excited and just went and took pictures. The guitar was not set up. Judging stuff like string positions and stuff based on that is unfair. Finally, the nut picture was taken with my iPhone camera, and that's the HDR image which means it averages between several images that have hand tremor, so there is some spatial aberration in that picture. Don't judge slant of the nut too much from that pic.
> 
> Also remember that this is a multiscale instrument, some comments seem to have not taken that in mind. The nut is slanted because the frets are fanned.
> 
> The size of the pickups covers isn't based on the actual size of the pickup, it's based on the original design Matt and I made together. Speculating on the slant of the pickups based on the position of the cover is pointless.
> 
> As for the apparent wear on some parts of the guitar, it's dust. My house was very dusty at the time because my vacuum cleaner was broken, and the fresh guitar was a dust magnet.
> 
> The glow is NOT PAINT FFS HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS, IT IS AN INLAY. Also, it is not consistent in that picture because the glow does not always charge consistently.
> 
> The nut slots are a bit wide because I was not specific on string gauges so he made them larger to accommodate various gauges. In fact, now I use much thicker strings and the extra space helps.
> 
> As for the headstock size, that's totally optional. If you don't like it, ask him to make you a smaller headstock.
> 
> 
> Feel free to ask me any questions about the build, but please do not baselessly speculate and ruin Matt's reputation because he is a really cool guy, he works hard and he has a good work ethic. Instead of one sided armchair criticism, please talk with people who have worked with him before jumping to conclusions. I'm not trying to defend Matt unreasonably, I'm just saying that so far there has been a lot of negativity in this thread (some warranted) but the positives need to be heard too.
> 
> As MetalBuddah said, I approached several other companies with my plans for my guitar, and not one of them were able to fulfill some of my most basic requirements. Etherial was the only one that could actually realize the guitar that I wanted. Mind you, my guitar was his first carbon fiber build and his first 9 string build, and I went in understanding the risks of that, but the end result is great.
> 
> Also, he is very open to feedback and he constantly sends you tons of pictures as he works on your build, and if you see any problems with the process, you can tell him and he fixes it right away. It's an interactive process, not a "talk to him once and get a guitar 6 months later" process.


----------



## capoeiraesp

NaYoN said:


> As I pointed out above, many of the flaws are not necessarily flaws, read my long post right above his post. I think that's why he said "flaws" in quotes.
> 
> Etherial do have flaws, but they're getting better. From what I've seen and heard from the other Etherial guys, each instrument gets better and better.



Thanks for joining the conversation, Noyan. 
I appreciate you clarifying some aspects of your Tron guitar. It's an impressive concept and it has inspired me to commission a very cool concept guitar too in the next few years. 
Could we please see some progress shots of the glow in the dark material being inlayed? I'm very curious about how he approached inlaying into the carbon fibre layer and foam (sorry I can't remember what material) body.
I'm not going to argue against your points on your guitar. I can understand your defense but I will choose to quietly disagree. 

I guess i'm still left scratching my head over a few things though.
I just don't get how a builder can be excused for having flaws and saying that his builds are getting better and better with each instrument. By that logic, the recent 6 string that is featured on Facebook (the one I pointed out flaws in) should not have the flaws that are present. At the end of the day that's people's hard earned money that is being used in order for the guy to develop his skills. It's inexcusable in my opinion.


----------



## Polythoral

I played an Etherial for a short bit of time (Sarah Longfield's) and in my opinion it was a pretty nice instrument. It played, felt, and sounded really good overall. The only flaws I noticed with the guitar was that the body inlay work was slightly shoddy (was a little unlevel in spots. Note that the fretboard inlay work was very well done from what I remember).

My opinion: Can you find a place that'll make you a better quality and better playing custom instrument for cheaper? Yeah. Can you find one to do the things Etherial will for the prices they do? Quite possibly not.

I know I have no real interest in them, but if the aesthetic that they do is your thing, I can see how you'd be interested.


----------



## capoeiraesp

A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.

Commission a dream, not an excuse.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Alberto7 said:


> Image 1: I do not see any scratches on it. It looks fine. The high e saddle is just different to the rest. I don't see how it is backwards in any way (perhaps I'm not looking at it right... but I really tried, and it looks like a different piece altogether, but not backwards [also worth noting that I am not very familiar with Kahler bridges and their components... much less the 9-string version of it]).
> 
> Image 2: I don't see anything weird with the nut on this picture. Perhaps you're looking too hard to find a mistake on it? As for the pickups, perhaps they're rail pickups (I do not remember what kinds of pickups NaYon had put in). As for the slanting, the pickups don't always have to be perfectly aligned with each other. It's a matter of preference in tone and looks (as long as the pole pieces are aligned. I'm assuming they're rail pickups).
> 
> Image 3: I actually kind of agree with you. The nut looks like it could have been done better. But it doesn't look like it would be much of a problem as it is.
> 
> Image 4: The glow-in-the-dark stripes are actually inlays, not improperly masked paint stripes. Etherial guitars don't do the most accurate inlay work, that's for sure. It's an art to be mastered. I hope they're truly on a learning curve.
> 
> 
> Just saying my thoughts about the things you pointed out



I think he said they're some kinda neodymium pickups.


----------



## celticelk

capoeiraesp said:


> A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.
> 
> Commission a dream, not an excuse.



I've been with you for a lot of this conversation, but at some point this argument becomes too extreme. Should I not perform or record for public consumption if I don't play as well as Tosin Abasi either? There are obviously conversations to be had about what constitutes an acceptably professional level of quality, but speaking personally, I order custom guitars because the guitars with the specs I want can't be found as production instruments. They don't have to be awe-inspiring works of art; they just have to be functional to my specs. I think there's room for luthiers working on that level as well.


----------



## NaYoN

capoeiraesp said:


> Thanks for joining the conversation, Noyan.
> I appreciate you clarifying some aspects of your Tron guitar. It's an impressive concept and it has inspired me to commission a very cool concept guitar too in the next few years.
> Could we please see some progress shots of the glow in the dark material being inlayed? I'm very curious about how he approached inlaying into the carbon fibre layer and foam (sorry I can't remember what material) body.
> I'm not going to argue against your points on your guitar. I can understand your defense but I will choose to quietly disagree.
> 
> I guess i'm still left scratching my head over a few things though.
> I just don't get how a builder can be excused for having flaws and saying that his builds are getting better and better with each instrument. By that logic, the recent 6 string that is featured on Facebook (the one I pointed out flaws in) should not have the flaws that are present. At the end of the day that's people's hard earned money that is being used in order for the guy to develop his skills. It's inexcusable in my opinion.




Here's a "in progress" picture of the inlays:





As for "understanding my defense and disagreeing"? Really? So you disagree that the guitar was not set up? You disagree that the guitar is fanned? You disagree that glow in the dark material doesn't always absorb light perfectly and thus doesn't always glow perfectly evenly? You disagree that my house is dusty? OK. Then I have nothing for you. I don't want to come off as hostile here, but you can't drop claims like that and when presented with counter-claims, just go "well you're still wrong but I'm not going to argue with you". Either tell me why I'm wrong or concede to being wrong yourself (or some sort of middle ground).


As for the whole "how dare you settle with getting an imperfect guitar" line of thought, let me reiterate.

Matt CONSTANTLY sends you TONS of pictures EVERY DAY of your build. You can ask for more detailed shots on anything, anywhere on the guitar. If you are a guitar evaluation wizard and are unhappy with certain aspects, he will go back and fix them. This is not that hard to understand. It's not a black box process.


----------



## Necromagnon




----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Valennic said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and say that quantity doesn't mean jack shit. Most of us who care about a quality product do not give a single flying fuck about how many guitars a luthier can put out in a month. That means literally nothing. Small flaws on something that costs thousands is unacceptable. Literally. It's bullshit. If a luthier has the gall to charge that much, then you have every right to "nitpick". Have you bothered to think about all the other guys who are one man operations who DON'T have all these problems? Daemoness and Vik are two that immediately come to mind. Artinger too.
> 
> In case you haven't noticed, a custom is not a production model. Your comparison makes no sense whatsoever. It doesn't matter if Gibson has flaws, they're made by people who don't give a shit. A luthier is SUPPOSED to give a shit. That's what you pay for.
> 
> If you had confidence in his abilities, you wouldn't worry about flaws. In my personal opinion, worrying about flaws in a build you're waiting months for and putting out thousand for, should not be a thing.
> 
> Stop defending him. He fucked up, and I believe he admitted it in the past, and if he didn't, shame. It's a learning process, guitar building that is, but you shouldn't sell to people before it meets your own standards. And if these are his standards, then he should probably think about raising his personal bar, or getting some more practice in on guitars that AREN'T' coming out of other peoples paychecks.
> 
> His concepts are badass. Incredible in fact. Execution just leaves a lot to be desired in some builds, where it's pretty good in others. Inconsistency is the death of small luthiers. So if he wants to take this seriously, he should take that into consideration.



He finished them all at the same time. I didn't say he built all six within the space of one months. You fools are taking everything I said out of context. HE FINISHED these builds that have been going on for a few months all around the same time.


----------



## HurrDurr

Damn, so much hate... Anyway, I think Ethereal are a sick brand. I'm still a bit at odds with the quality since there's too many negative and also positive accounts for me to say anything personal without having tried an instrument myself. I absolutely *love* the tech-infused aesthetics of Noyan's guitar and I would definitely invest in one for myself, but I can't honestly say I'm not a bit bothered by the claims here on this site. However, those who seem to own one or have played one seem to have generally positive things to say about them, so there's that. I'm also _*crazy*_ about the Blake Allard headless model, since I'm a sucker for headless designs. A blend of the two would probably be something I'd do for my own custom build. I've been looking at the Blake model on their site and I honestly can't point out anything negative from it other than the inlaying looks like it's very well done for an inlay of that size. There's maybe one sharp edge on the body inlays that I noticed, but other than that it's superb work and the heel is perfect as well, no dents or bumps there. And the Blake Allard was delivered two weeks ago, so it's pretty recent, along with the Exotype guitarist's guitar as well and both look really good. I see the "flaws" you've all pointed out in the latest 6-string build, but you should keep in mind that a lot of that is subjective. You never know if whomever receives that guitar prefers a slight dent in their heel. There's a lot up for dispute here, I'm sure, but I'm still leaning a bit towards the positive based on how damn cool those designs and inlays are. Here's to hoping I can afford one sometime soon being a broke college kid and all. *However if Ethereal wants to send me one to try out I'd appreciate it <3* lol


----------



## TemjinStrife

It's times like these when I'm glad that I only seem to bond with "normal" guitars, and don't need to spend thousands on a crapshoot to get "my" specs. Saves me a lot of hassle


----------



## NaYoN

TemjinStrife said:


> It's times like these when I'm glad that I only seem to bond with "normal" guitars, and don't need to spend thousands on a crapshoot to get "my" specs. Saves me a lot of hassle



Every 9 string guitar I've encountered so far is a massive and ugly abomination that's extremely heavy and doesn't play well. Also they don't lend themselves to my absurd low tuning. Etherial changed my life (and cured my back pains) with this guitar. I can not be happier.


----------



## celticelk

TemjinStrife said:


> It's times like these when I'm glad that I only seem to bond with "normal" guitars, and don't need to spend thousands on a crapshoot to get "my" specs. Saves me a lot of hassle



I console myself with the thought that there's a guy designing and building my guitars by hand in his own shop, and that my money makes a significant contribution toward keeping him and his family afloat, which appeals to my sensibilities.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I would like to take a moment to welcome Lucas Mann of Rings of Saturn to the Etherial family!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> It's an interactive process, not a "talk to him once and get a guitar 6 months later" process.



To be honest, this has NOT been the case with me. I talked with Matt back in September through October for my build. Then around November he slowed down and I didn't hear a damn thing from him from Thanksgiving all throughout December and January. So I sent him a message canceling my build. No reply. Then I sent him another message saying that I would like to continue the build process. No damn reply. (Email or Facebook.) It is pissing me off that all these other people are getting ahead of me even through I was first and I am CLEARLY trying to contact Matt and getting no reply.


----------



## Valennic

Wings of Obsidian said:


> He finished them all at the same time. I didn't say he built all six within the space of one months. You fools are taking everything I said out of context. HE FINISHED these builds that have been going on for a few months all around the same time.



Well okay, I'll give you that. The rest of my post still stands pretty firmly .

I also don't understand why you'd defend a luthier who won't reply to any of your attempts at contact. Seems silly to me.

Mind you I'm not attacking him. I just want to be sure that he's held accountable for his mistakes, instead of deified for his successes.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Valennic said:


> Well okay, I'll give you that. The rest of my post still stands pretty firmly .
> 
> I also don't understand why you'd defend a luthier who won't reply to any of your attempts at contact. Seems silly to me.
> 
> Mind you I'm not attacking him. I just want to be sure that he's held accountable for his mistakes, instead of deified for his successes.



Ok, I get your point. But maybe I am defending him because he has had a few diamonds amidst the coals. Yes, he has fucked up a little bit, but some builds lately like the Exotype ones have been phenomenal. I mean, sure he hasn't replied to me in so long and I feel cheated and pushed to the ass-end of the line, but still.......


----------



## Danukenator

capoeiraesp said:


> A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.
> 
> Commission a dream, not an excuse.



Where do you draw the line for a flaw? I've seen Viks with small gaps where bindings join in the headstock? Is that inexcusable? Of course not. Its a totally minor and reasonable error that's a reality of working with very small amounts of wood binding. 

When I order a guitar, I EXPECT it to have some flaw. It can be small and really minor but there will always be something. People that keep having these "perfect" guitars with no flaws are full of it. Somewhere, there is a little scratch under the finish, a route that's just a tiny bit bigger than it could have been, etc.

I expect an instrument that plays and sounds amazing with a very high build quality. Not insane amounts of perfect.


----------



## Necromagnon

Funny how people can argue and fight on personnal tastes.
Again:


----------



## thrsher

i can attest that matts customer service is top notch.


----------



## Danukenator

Necromagnon said:


> Funny how people can argue and fight on personnal tastes.



Discussion =/= Arguing

Discussing what constitutes a flaw is completely reasonable. It's a forum, we're here to discuss and, so far, no one is saying anything out of line.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Since I started talking to Matt back in November sometime he's be nothing but great to work with. His responses slowed down during the holidays which is entirely understandable lol He is real helpful when trying to flesh out a concept and I could not be happier with what we've come up with. I haven't found any luthiers yet that will build to all my specs, which Matt not only hit but exceeded exponentially. I could not be more excited to see his brand develop and what will come out of his shop next. He's only been getting better with time.


----------



## capoeiraesp

NaYoN said:


> Here's a "in progress" picture of the inlays:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for "understanding my defense and disagreeing"? Really? So you disagree that the guitar was not set up? You disagree that the guitar is fanned? You disagree that glow in the dark material doesn't always absorb light perfectly and thus doesn't always glow perfectly evenly? You disagree that my house is dusty? OK. Then I have nothing for you. I don't want to come off as hostile here, but you can't drop claims like that and when presented with counter-claims, just go "well you're still wrong but I'm not going to argue with you". Either tell me why I'm wrong or concede to being wrong yourself (or some sort of middle ground).
> 
> 
> As for the whole "how dare you settle with getting an imperfect guitar" line of thought, let me reiterate.
> 
> Matt CONSTANTLY sends you TONS of pictures EVERY DAY of your build. You can ask for more detailed shots on anything, anywhere on the guitar. If you are a guitar evaluation wizard and are unhappy with certain aspects, he will go back and fix them. This is not that hard to understand. It's not a black box process.



Noyan, thank you for providing the pictures of the inlaying of the glow in the dark material.
I'm happy to take a middle ground on this and I do apologise for getting my facts wrong with the inlay material.
Where I still disagree with you is in regards to the 'dust' issue. The Kahler has been 'damaged' beforehand just like I pointed out, as you can see in this pic. I say 'damaged' because I know it's still functional and most folks won't be bothered by such thiings.





I completely understand that the guitar is a fanned style. I have 2 multiscale guitars and I built one of them. I still fail to understand why the nut would need to be slanted downwards because of the fanning of the frets. Equally though, not every builder has the same approach to building fanned fret & multiscale guitars.

I don't believe that speculating on the spacing of the pickup covers is pointless. Without knowing your initial design intentions it would appear to be a mistake. Since you've clarified that, I would also like to apologise for being incorrect in my judgment in this instance. 

With regards to the nut slots, I understand the idea behind making them wider to compensate for heavier string gauges. However, it still appears to be a bit sloppy IMO. How do you find the rubbing of the strings on the truss-rod cover and headstock? Is the Kahler usable for any vibrato without the strings rubbing or causing friction and thus, putting the guitar out of tune?

I don't think I ever said anything about the headstock size. Are you referring to someone else's post? Personally, I like the headstock. 

Noyan, your guitar is clearly one that is made to a much higher standard than some of the others that I have pointed out issues/flaws with. Etherial certainly offer some of the broadest range of options when compared to most custom builders and their customer service appears to be of a high standard. It's also great to see Aussie builders making a name for themselves on the international market.


----------



## Necromagnon

Danukenator said:


> Discussion =/= Arguing
> 
> Discussing what constitutes a flaw is completely reasonable. It's a forum, we're here to discuss and, so far, no one is saying anything out of line.


Nop, dude. I'm just reading. That's just what it looks like from here. There some problem of objectivity because some of you are involved with Matt (that's no critic  ), and so when someone seem to put flaws on the daylight, it obviously annoy those involved in the building.

I'll just give my opinion, I won't enter the debate:
I've take a close look at his site and I found his designs just horrible. The Nayon guitar is amazing, btw. I really love the design (while there's some stuff I'd do differently), and the Tron-inspire lines glow in the dark and blabla. This a really beautifull instrument.

BUT, there're still some little things that catched my attention.
1st: the neck pu: the cover is not centered. Look at both corner that are closer to the strings, up and down. There's clearly much space on the treble side than on the bass side, even in the mock up. This won't affect tone nor anything, obviously, but at my eyes, it's not perfect (understand perfect not in the very litterate terms, of course).
2nd: the inlay for the glow in the dark on the pictures are not so clean. Ok, it's inlay and stuff, ok it's carbon fibre, but still. Also, the pu cavity looks... uh... well... let's say "not clean".
3rd: about the pu again: I'm very surprised he used BKP... I mean, "plots" pu, no slanted. And considering the size of the pu (standard width for a straight 9 str) and the covers that are slanted (thus much larger), I wonder how it's inside.
4th: the nut. I'm not talking about the curve (I didn't see it, and as said, it might be the pic). But something the pic doesn't deform is that it's 4x too high, specially on the treble side. That you keep a large slot to use thicker string, let's say ok (even that, I think a bit strange and I'd prefer having a few nuts in advance instead of just one that will "almost" fit every gauges), but the fact that it's 4/5mm tall while the string is 0.3 mm thick... There's some progress to be done here.
5th, I join on the saddle and the invert mounting
6th: the screw. But I'd moderate it because it's very very hard to mount a bridge (or anything) on a finish product without wearing screws.

There may be some others but I'm a bit lazy of searching back in the topic.

So, after this, all those things do not matter at all the playability of the instrument, thus I understand perfectly that many wouldn't care about it. But imo, and as far as I've seen of some others, this should not be on a custom guitar (because it's too big flaws). The screw is tolerable, for the reason given, and the other... The nut would be a matter of 2 min of more work, the saddle the same, the pu also, etc. This a pity, I truly think he's great intention beyond it, and we can only wish the best for the future considering his improvement, but there're still some flaws.


----------



## NaYoN

capoeiraesp said:


> Noyan, thank you for providing the pictures of the inlaying of the glow in the dark material.
> I'm happy to take a middle ground on this and I do apologise for getting my facts wrong with the inlay material.
> Where I still disagree with you is in regards to the 'dust' issue. The Kahler has been 'damaged' beforehand just like I pointed out, as you can see in this pic. I say 'damaged' because I know it's still functional and most folks won't be bothered by such thiings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I completely understand that the guitar is a fanned style. I have 2 multiscale guitars and I built one of them. I still fail to understand why the nut would need to be slanted downwards because of the fanning of the frets. Equally though, not every builder has the same approach to building fanned fret & multiscale guitars.
> 
> I don't believe that speculating on the spacing of the pickup covers is pointless. Without knowing your initial design intentions it would appear to be a mistake. Since you've clarified that, I would also like to apologise for being incorrect in my judgment in this instance.
> 
> With regards to the nut slots, I understand the idea behind making them wider to compensate for heavier string gauges. However, it still appears to be a bit sloppy IMO. How do you find the rubbing of the strings on the truss-rod cover and headstock? Is the Kahler usable for any vibrato without the strings rubbing or causing friction and thus, putting the guitar out of tune?
> 
> I don't think I ever said anything about the headstock size. Are you referring to someone else's post? Personally, I like the headstock.
> 
> Noyan, your guitar is clearly one that is made to a much higher standard than some of the others that I have pointed out issues/flaws with. Etherial certainly offer some of the broadest range of options when compared to most custom builders and their customer service appears to be of a high standard. It's also great to see Aussie builders making a name for themselves on the international market.



Thanks for being civil. The headstock was a complaint by someone else. I don't use the whammy/vibrato bar. Other than that, the guitar generally stays in tune.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Thanks dude. I've just realised I've been quoting your name incorrectly this whole time, sorry.


----------



## NaYoN

Necromagnon said:


> Nop, dude. I'm just reading. That's just what it looks like from here. There some problem of objectivity because some of you are involved with Matt (that's no critic  ), and so when someone seem to put flaws on the daylight, it obviously annoy those involved in the building.
> 
> I'll just give my opinion, I won't enter the debate:
> I've take a close look at his site and I found his designs just horrible. The Nayon guitar is amazing, btw. I really love the design (while there's some stuff I'd do differently), and the Tron-inspire lines glow in the dark and blabla. This a really beautifull instrument.
> 
> BUT, there're still some little things that catched my attention.
> 1st: the neck pu: the cover is not centered. Look at both corner that are closer to the strings, up and down. There's clearly much space on the treble side than on the bass side, even in the mock up. This won't affect tone nor anything, obviously, but at my eyes, it's not perfect (understand perfect not in the very litterate terms, of course).
> 2nd: the inlay for the glow in the dark on the pictures are not so clean. Ok, it's inlay and stuff, ok it's carbon fibre, but still. Also, the pu cavity looks... uh... well... let's say "not clean".
> 3rd: about the pu again: I'm very surprised he used BKP... I mean, "plots" pu, no slanted. And considering the size of the pu (standard width for a straight 9 str) and the covers that are slanted (thus much larger), I wonder how it's inside.
> 4th: the nut. I'm not talking about the curve (I didn't see it, and as said, it might be the pic). But something the pic doesn't deform is that it's 4x too high, specially on the treble side. That you keep a large slot to use thicker string, let's say ok (even that, I think a bit strange and I'd prefer having a few nuts in advance instead of just one that will "almost" fit every gauges), but the fact that it's 4/5mm tall while the string is 0.3 mm thick... There's some progress to be done here.
> 5th, I join on the saddle and the invert mounting
> 6th: the screw. But I'd moderate it because it's very very hard to mount a bridge (or anything) on a finish product without wearing screws.
> 
> There may be some others but I'm a bit lazy of searching back in the topic.
> 
> So, after this, all those things do not matter at all the playability of the instrument, thus I understand perfectly that many wouldn't care about it. But imo, and as far as I've seen of some others, this should not be on a custom guitar (because it's too big flaws). The screw is tolerable, for the reason given, and the other... The nut would be a matter of 2 min of more work, the saddle the same, the pu also, etc. This a pity, I truly think he's great intention beyond it, and we can only wish the best for the future considering his improvement, but there're still some flaws.



1: preference/visual

2: glow in the dark inlays don't charge perfectly, already addressed this

3: I don't understand what you're saying here

4: it's not like that in real life, might be shadow/image distortion/perspective projection/whatever

5: I don't understand this

6: Not really a big deal at all imo


I don't think these are big flaws at all. If you think they are, then don't get an Etherial guitar. But I'd say it's unfair to call Matt a bad builder because of these tiny issues. Maybe a slightly flawed builder, but not a bad builder. And imo, there aren't really any flaws, but YMMV.

Also, as I said earlier, you can talk to Matt during the process, and if you have issues like these, he will fix them.



capoeiraesp said:


> Thanks dude. I've just realised I've been quoting your name incorrectly this whole time, sorry.



My name is Noyan, my username is NaYoN but you can use whatever, and the capitalization doesn't matter. My solo project is NYN. Hence the dumb capitalization.


----------



## Necromagnon

NaYoN said:


> 1: preference/visual
> 
> 2: glow in the dark inlays don't charge perfectly, already addressed this
> 
> 3: I don't understand what you're saying here
> 
> 4: it's not like that in real life, might be shadow/image distortion/perspective projection/whatever
> 
> 5: I don't understand this
> 
> 6: Not really a big deal at all imo
> 
> 
> I don't think these are big flaws at all. If you think they are, then don't get an Etherial guitar. But I'd say it's unfair to call Matt a bad builder because of these tiny issues.
> 
> Also, as I said earlier, you can talk to Matt during the process, and if you have issues like these, he will fix them.


So you should read correctly what I say and then go back on what I'm saying, please.
I've NEVER said he's a bad builder. But if you think so, I won't disagree with you...

I may explain myself badly, sorry for that, but please... Read what I write. There's nothing more annoying than that... :/


----------



## NaYoN

Necromagnon said:


> So you should read correctly what I say and then go back on what I'm saying, please.
> I've NEVER said he's a bad builder. But if you think so, I won't disagree with you...
> 
> I may explain myself badly, sorry for that, but please... Read what I write. There's nothing more annoying than that... :/



I'm not specifically referring to you calling him a bad builder, I was addressing the general tone of the thread, my bad.

Also, as for the pickups, the 9 string pickup market isn't exactly booming, we worked with what we had.


----------



## Necromagnon

NaYoN said:


> I'm not specifically referring to you calling him a bad builder, I was addressing the general tone of the thread, my bad


Ok, sorry for taking this a bit to heart also. I took it for me. 

And I don't think anybody called him a bad builder. Some highlights flaws, mostly on older builds, and se the fact that is really coming up from this thread is that he's having a great improvement on building (and also on design, imo, much more mature), and we have some examples/testimonials of owners going on the good way for him.

So i don't think this thread will give him prejudice. In fact, I'm sure it's the perfect opposite.

PS: about the pu, yes, I think. But I think that those have also been custom order? I think he should have gone for slanted pu (like many builders do), and put it inside the cover to keep visual aspect. I think you could have earn a slightly better tone, specially on the extreme strings. I'm speaking with experience, because my 1st (and only, from now on) 8 strings as the neck pu slanted (because I found it nice looking), and so the low F# string and the high E are not perfectly going over there pole. This implies a big difference in tone when playing with the neck pu. And with the experience, I'd do things differently.


----------



## Hollowway

Hey Noyan, you mentioned you're using thicker strings now. Are you using something thicker than the .090" for the G#0? I love your band's stuff, but I can't get that gauge to work for me at 30".


----------



## NaYoN

Hollowway said:


> Hey Noyan, you mentioned you're using thicker strings now. Are you using something thicker than the .090" for the G#0? I love your band's stuff, but I can't get that gauge to work for me at 30".



Yep, I'm using .94 now  It's way better than .90


----------



## The Reverend

Damn, homies. My understanding is that this Matt character is fairly new to the type of work he does, in the sense that he's now somewhat known in the world of sought-after luthiers who make ERGs. 

I saw some definite flaws in the pictures posted throughout this thread, but I personally don't think they would break my heart to see when pulling out a guitar unlike any other in existence from the box. I believe in this dude's work, especially if he gets the chance to improve over time. He's not making Roter mistakes, and he's not making incredible claims about his work, at least to my knowledge. Seems to me that he's willing to take an idea and make that idea a reality. There's no standard playbook for making some of the guitars he makes. Of course there will be some mistakes.

I also don't understand the issue about his pricing. He doesn't pillage your bank account for his work, and I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done, he doesn't walk away with a huge profit. For the reputation he has, the builds he makes, and the service he provides, all while being a normal guy with bills to pay, he's very reasonable. 

Should you have high expectations for a guitar made by someone who loves to make guitars? Yeah. Should you point out flaws in a constructive manner to that person, so they know what to work on? Of course. But we're treading a very thin line between constructive dialogue and focusing on ideological opinions that achieve nothing in the real world. 

TL;DR: Point these things out to Matt, have some perspective, and don't assume that your view is the ruler by which all others are measured.


----------



## NaYoN

The Reverend said:


> Damn, homies. My understanding is that this Matt character is fairly new to the type of work he does, in the sense that he's now somewhat known in the world of sought-after luthiers who make ERGs.
> 
> I saw some definite flaws in the pictures posted throughout this thread, but I personally don't think they would break my heart to see when pulling out a guitar unlike any other in existence from the box. I believe in this dude's work, especially if he gets the chance to improve over time. He's not making Roter mistakes, and he's not making incredible claims about his work, at least to my knowledge. Seems to me that he's willing to take an idea and make that idea a reality. There's no standard playbook for making some of the guitars he makes. Of course there will be some mistakes.
> 
> I also don't understand the issue about his pricing. He doesn't pillage your bank account for his work, and I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done, he doesn't walk away with a huge profit. For the reputation he has, the builds he makes, and the service he provides, all while being a normal guy with bills to pay, he's very reasonable.
> 
> Should you have high expectations for a guitar made by someone who loves to make guitars? Yeah. Should you point out flaws in a constructive manner to that person, so they know what to work on? Of course. But we're treading a very thin line between constructive dialogue and focusing on ideological opinions that achieve nothing in the real world.
> 
> TL;DR: Point these things out to Matt, have some perspective, and don't assume that your view is the ruler by which all others are measured.



Thank you for that. 100% backed.


----------



## Hollowway

The Reverend said:


> Damn, homies. My understanding is that this Matt character is fairly new to the type of work he does, in the sense that he's now somewhat known in the world of sought-after luthiers who make ERGs.
> 
> I saw some definite flaws in the pictures posted throughout this thread, but I personally don't think they would break my heart to see when pulling out a guitar unlike any other in existence from the box. I believe in this dude's work, especially if he gets the chance to improve over time. He's not making Roter mistakes, and he's not making incredible claims about his work, at least to my knowledge. Seems to me that he's willing to take an idea and make that idea a reality. There's no standard playbook for making some of the guitars he makes. Of course there will be some mistakes.
> 
> I also don't understand the issue about his pricing. He doesn't pillage your bank account for his work, and I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done, he doesn't walk away with a huge profit. For the reputation he has, the builds he makes, and the service he provides, all while being a normal guy with bills to pay, he's very reasonable.
> 
> Should you have high expectations for a guitar made by someone who loves to make guitars? Yeah. Should you point out flaws in a constructive manner to that person, so they know what to work on? Of course. But we're treading a very thin line between constructive dialogue and focusing on ideological opinions that achieve nothing in the real world.
> 
> TL;DR: Point these things out to Matt, have some perspective, and don't assume that your view is the ruler by which all others are measured.



Dude, you're the one assuming you're the ruler by which all others are being made. I think capo, others and myself have been pretty diplomatic about the errors in the builds, and I hardly think your points about him being a nice guy and improving his skill is relevant. The point here is that people need to be open about these sorts of things so we can all benefit from everyone's knowledge. If a builder (not Matt per se) has constant delays, poor communication, poor setups, unseasoned wood, finish flaws, bad fretting, sloppy routes, poor inlays, etc it helps if we all know about it. When we all give everyone a pass for any potential downsides we all lose. Think of how much ridicule some members received in the past on here for questioning Sherman, Roter, BRJ, Invictus, Strictly 7, etc. We're finally getting to the point where we can talk about this stuff, levy our opinions, and be open about things without the worry of repercussions. In this thread capo pointed out a bunch of stuff diplomatically, Noyan responded diplomatically, and we all learned. That's the way is has to be if we are to all benefit. If these things are not brought up in the open either buyers or luthiers are going to get hurt. If you think a particular person is being unruly, call him out. But don't shut down a really good discussion.


----------



## The Reverend

Hollowway said:


> But don't shut down a really good discussion.



What you fail to notice is that my ruler is based on pure observations. Here's what I see, and these aren't opinions.

1. The company consists of one man and whatever assets and tools he possesses; he is is own quality control
2. The company has only recently started making a name for itself
3. Many of the guitars are unique in that there is no reference to construct them to
4. There have not been any reports of completely unplayable guitars yet


I do not advocate giving anyone a free pass. I am wondering why people can see the facts of the matter and still think that there needs to be a PSA about this operation. Knowing those four facts, all you can reasonably expect is a working, structurally sound guitar that may or may not have flaws. If you are a smart consumer, you knew that going in. 

A builder does not have to have reached your level of expectation to sell people their guitars. This company does not have the years of expertise, or equipment of Ibanez LACS, or any other big custom shop (I'm assuming this, but c'mon). I'm quite frankly astounded that people are acting shocked to see these flaws on display. What did any of you expect??


----------



## NaYoN

The Reverend said:


> What you fail to notice is that my ruler is based on pure observations. Here's what I see, and these aren't opinions.
> 
> 1. The company consists of one man and whatever assets and tools he possesses; he is is own quality control
> 2. The company has only recently started making a name for itself
> 3. Many of the guitars are unique in that there is no reference to construct them to
> 4. There have not been any reports of completely unplayable guitars yet
> 
> 
> I do not advocate giving anyone a free pass. I am wondering why people can see the facts of the matter and still think that there needs to be a PSA about this operation. Knowing those four facts, all you can reasonably expect is a working, structurally sound guitar that may or may not have flaws. If you are a smart consumer, you knew that going in.
> 
> A builder does not have to have reached your level of expectation to sell people their guitars. This company does not have the years of expertise, or equipment of Ibanez LACS, or any other big custom shop (I'm assuming this, but c'mon). I'm quite frankly astounded that people are acting shocked to see these flaws on display. What did any of you expect??



He is one man that operates in his own house. But I agree with you on the points.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Is it over yet?....


----------



## thrsher

from Etherial facebook

So I thought it&#8217;s time to explain some reasoning and justification on material selections and processes stating with the use of carbon fiber. This is by no means an essay but hopefully and insight into how things are done, 
With every build there is a HEAVY focus on the design process, I do spend at least 10 hours on each custom order in the design phase, some requires more than 30 hours. Also I try to keep each client fully informed over the build process with pictures and updates of progress.
This comes through from my professional qualifications as an Industrial designer. Pushing the boundaries of what can be done and experimenting with new materials, processes and ideas. If someone has a wild idea I&#8217;ll see what I can do to make it happen, discussing all the details with each client. So in that respect a lot of the work I do is experimental. 

I&#8217;ll explain carbon fiber with examples and then justifications. Some of the processes have been developed specifically and adapted to the work that I do. Some of them I won&#8217;t reveal in full detail Intellectual property pertaining to processes etc. One thing I&#8217;ve learned the hard way, people will always rip your ideas. 

First some definitions 

Twill weave: A particular woven textured pattern that gives a more 3D effect, is also more conformable to complex shapes. Has a more diagonal look that standard woven carbon. 

Unidirectional carbon fiber: As the same suggests all the carbon strands are aligned in one direction, typically used to reinforce object when strengthening is only really required in one force vector. 
I use this mostly for fretboards as an ebony replacement as I feel there are ethical issues with using rainforest timber. 

Carbon Skin: 1 layers of carbon(or other composite) as an aesthetic detail

Wet layering: Each layer of carbon fiber fabric is layered and saturated with resin by hand then gel coated once the saturation processed is cured. This allows maximum flexibility in design too which is REALLY important for custom work. 
For the forces involved in a guitar autoclaving the carbon is overkill and not needed, not exactly subject to the forces of a F1 car. This process does require patience and time to do correctly. 

Structural carbon: 3-5 layers to give full strength with minimal addition of weight. Depends on the purpose. For guitar necks about 4-5 layers is sufficient. 

Cores: An internal structure (typically lightweight) that provides a male form over which an exoskeletal structure of carbon is layered. 
Examples: Necks, using lightweight timber cores, we can makes the necks down to 18mm consistent from neck to heel, normally this isn&#8217;t practical as the timber doesn&#8217;t have enough integrity to be stable or solid enough for the job. The addition of external layers of carbon fiber, 3-5 layers increases the stability, integrity and strength of the neck which then allows the thinner profiles. 

&#8220;skins&#8221; which are purely for aesthetic reasons to get the woven carbon look. An example is the Exotype guitars. Using 195gsm twill weave carbon on the EXO-X7 and silver coated glass on the EXO-R7. 
The skins aren&#8217;t structural and as it&#8217;s only 1 maybe 2 depending on the composite. 

Neck exoskeletal support: I&#8217;ve been using a lot of carbon fiber on a few builds and there are a few reasons why. For one, it adds significant strength and stiffness to the neck as is also impervious to temperature and humidity changes. Normal timber necks can be subject to movement with extreme changes in temperature and humidity. 
So typically about 4 layers of 195gms carbon fiber is more than enough to strengthen necks and the transitions to the bodies. This also allows really thin necks as stated previously.
An example is Chris Storey&#8217;s sig model. 

Full carbon fiber builds:
There are a number of ways to do this but the process I&#8217;ve selected and developed allows maximum flexibly in design. 

It&#8217;s not practical time or money wise to create female molds for every single carbon build, the costs in money and time would be ridiculous. That and with all molds you need release angles which limits the shapes that can be done, I really don&#8217;t like limitations. 
When first thinking and researching carbon fiber, most of the shapes I saw were very organic in nature. That&#8217;s all well and good but to maintain the Etherial aesthetic I had to think of a different way to approach this, ie edges, contours. 
I really wanted to maintain the crisp edges and lines so the form of a timber and carbon guitar will be the same. With every material there are particular limits of what can/can&#8217;t be done so it&#8217;s about working out these limitations and pushing them. 

So, the process I use is somewhat similar to how wakeboards are made. These have an internal core which provide the form to layer over, typically layered in two pieces, top and bottom. 
The benefit of this, any shape can be layered over a male form no matter how complex and there can be crisp defined lines. It&#8217;s labour intensive but worth the result. 
Another benefit of a core, there is material to mound hardware into: ie pickups, bridges etc isn&#8217;t a problem. The cores are still very soft, mostly I use polyurethane as it&#8217;s a great to shapes and maintain the crisp edges of the forms I create. Then to mount hardware like tune O matic posts they can be epoxied into the core as the material has enough integrity to hold hardware. 

There are also a &#8220;lost core&#8221; process too which are made with a material which can be chemically melted, so once the carbon is cured the core can be melted away leaving a hollow void but then you end up with a resonating chamber. This is well and good for an acoustic guitar but not ideal for an electric when feedback and acoustic resonance is ideally low. I disregarded this process, as it wasn&#8217;t optimal for the requirements I was after. 

There is more I could go into, but that&#8217;s enough to give a sufficient overview of the reasoning and purpose of carbon fiber. 

One last note, everything is done by hand or hand controlled tools , there are no CNC machines used, I do out sources some laser cutting with some metal inlays but other than that each build is a hand crafted.

Hope this makes sense and gives a bit more insight into how and why things are done. 

Sincerely 

Matthew Brown
Bachelor of Design in Industrial Design 

Etherial Guitars
Industrial Designer/Craftsman/Owner


----------



## axxessdenied

I think Noyan's guitar is definitely made to a higher standard since it was such a high profile build. I follow Etherial guitars because of Nayon's build.... but, I have to say I'm sort of unimpressed by the quality of the finished products. Ive noticed a lot of imperfections in the guitars posted.

Some of us are extremely anal about small details.


----------



## Necromagnon

The Reverend said:


> 1. The company consists of one man and whatever assets and tools he possesses; he is is own quality control


And? Where does it imply to not have a critical look at what you build?
Many builders here (pro or not -walterson, bowes, and some others) are building their guitars themselves, with no "external control quality", and still, their're awesome guitars.



The Reverend said:


> 2. The company has only recently started making a name for itself


Same for Invictus, and I don't understand why they didn't have this chance... 
The youth has really no relation. A young company that makes shit will never grow. A young company that makes awesome stuff will become a major. You know, Ibanez didn't born as big as they are today?



The Reverend said:


> 3. Many of the guitars are unique in that there is no reference to construct them to


And?
I build unique guitars also, many others do the same, and they still can be critical to their (our) work. My 3 buils from now on are all unique, and have a lot of flaws I can see, evenif I don't have exact reference.



The Reverend said:


> 4. There have not been any reports of completely unplayable guitars yet


And that's not what we were saying.
And also, do you need really unplayable guitars to do not buy one? I mean, to stay on the Etherial exemple. Imagine that you order the Nayon model, and you recieve it poorly made, with ugly finish, inlays that go everywhere but where it should, tuners misplaced, bridge completely whear, etc. The guitars is still perfectly playable and sounds the same as the real one, but would you seriously give credits to it? Would you actually just play it?



The Reverend said:


> If you are a smart consumer, you knew that going in.


If you're a smart consumer, you can ask for a little perfection you buy something expensive. When you buy a Lada, you know it will work perfectly but that it will fall into pieces as fast as it can. When you buy a Ferrari, you expect things to be a little better. You know (and everybody does, obviously) that there's NO perfection. It's impossible. But you can tend to be very close to it. 




The Reverend said:


> A builder does not have to have reached your level of expectation to sell people their guitars. This company does not have the years of expertise, or equipment of Ibanez LACS, or any other big custom shop (I'm assuming this, but c'mon). I'm quite frankly astounded that people are acting shocked to see these flaws on display. What did any of you expect??


Equipement means nothing. If you want, I can give you the link to the video report of a friend luthier that build an very nice Tele with no electricity at all (well, almost). Just with some hand tools you can buy for not very expensive, sharpened, and go on.
About expertise, that's the builder matter to acquire it before starting is name. Look at how many builders could pretend to be pro here, and don't do so? They acquire the expertise by themselves. With your reasonement, I could actually start my own brand, sell not so high quality custom guitars for some expensive price and if somebody told me something about quality, I'll just have to say: "hey, wait. I'm new to the business, give me time."
If everybody was doing it, I'm sure there will be some... problems.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

So, I have officially cancelled my build after not hearing back from Matt for the longest time and being pushed to ass-end of the line. (Like I said, I talked with him back in September and October, but in November he slowed up, and I didn't hear a peep from him all December, January, and February. I tried to contact him. But I find it unfair that I came in first, had everything set, then all these guys like the Exptype guys and Lucas Mann from Rings of Saturn come in and he puts them first and goes ahead and does/advertises their builds. Meanwhile I got pushed to the ass-end of the line.)

I really wanted that Etherial...and I can't take my business to another luthier because no one else can do what me and Matt designed....but this is bullshit...


----------



## Necromagnon

I see your point, this a bad situation... i've got the same with Ran a couple of years ago, when mine was in the building process. Never receive pictures, the build was delayed 3/4 times, and after the second time, I saw that he was promoting new builds for Vader... But at least, I've got it, 1.5 year after my deposit while he announced me 9 months... 
I think you should keep him in the line. He was building (I agree it's not fair) for a band, and it seems he has finished or almost, so he might able to jump back on yours. Also, if you can't find someone else who could do what you're wainting for, I think you should really continue with him. And if you rage about it, go read the BRJ thread.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> I see your point, this a bad situation... i've got the same with Ran a couple of years ago, when mine was in the building process. Never receive pictures, the build was delayed 3/4 times, and after the second time, I saw that he was promoting new builds for Vader... But at least, I've got it, 1.5 year after my deposit while he announced me 9 months...
> I think you should keep him in the line. He was building (I agree it's not fair) for a band, and it seems he has finished or almost, so he might able to jump back on yours. Also, if you can't find someone else who could do what you're wainting for, I think you should really continue with him. And if you rage about it, go read the BRJ thread.



Damn brother. Sorry to hear that. Just feel cheated you know? Less important? Fucking great...


----------



## The Reverend

Necromagnon said:


> And? Where does it imply to not have a critical look at what you build?
> Many builders here (pro or not -walterson, bowes, and some others) are building their guitars themselves, with no "external control quality", and still, their're awesome guitars.



Having another pair of experienced eyes is never a bad thing. They can spot things you didn't see. I bet every solo luthier you ask would tell you they wish they had someone to double-check their work sometimes.



Necromagnon said:


> Same for Invictus, and I don't understand why they didn't have this chance...
> The youth has really no relation. A young company that makes shit will never grow. A young company that makes awesome stuff will become a major. You know, Ibanez didn't born as big as they are today?



Invictus was making huge mistakes on their high-profile builds, as well as fucking people over for money. With the exception of Wings, I haven't heard other people talking about Etherial doing that kind of stuff. The youth of the company has everything to do with the amateurish flaws we've seen here. 




Necromagnon said:


> And?
> I build unique guitars also, many others do the same, and they still can be critical to their (our) work. My 3 buils from now on are all unique, and have a lot of flaws I can see, evenif I don't have exact reference.



Are you doing stuff as far out there and experimental as Etherial's? Are your builds unprecedented? And do you have customers waiting on guitars you're building? Has anyone noticed how nobody who's received one of these guitars is complaining about them? Why is that, guys? 




Necromagnon said:


> And that's not what we were saying.
> And also, do you need really unplayable guitars to do not buy one? I mean, to stay on the Etherial exemple. Imagine that you order the Nayon model, and you recieve it poorly made, with ugly finish, inlays that go everywhere but where it should, tuners misplaced, bridge completely whear, etc. The guitars is still perfectly playable and sounds the same as the real one, but would you seriously give credits to it? Would you actually just play it?



If I got a guitar like that, hell no I wouldn't play it. I'd get my money back. Luckily, your exaggeration is not the work Matt puts out, and you've succeeded in missing my point. I would expect maybe a little rough spot on a curve, or a small bit of inlay filler messed up. Keep in mind that Matt tells people these things during the build process, and nobody says, "Fuck it, Matt, let's just start over."





Necromagnon said:


> If you're a smart consumer, you can ask for a little perfection you buy something expensive. When you buy a Lada, you know it will work perfectly but that it will fall into pieces as fast as it can. When you buy a Ferrari, you expect things to be a little better. You know (and everybody does, obviously) that there's NO perfection. It's impossible. But you can tend to be very close to it.



You really can't ask for more than what you get. These guitars technically aren't expensive, given the materials involved. You're not paying an extra grand just for the Etherial stamp on the headstock. At this point in Matt's career, he's like the custom luthier version of Agile. He embodies the saying "your mileage may vary." This is obvious, has been obvious, and I have to repeat that no customers of his are complaining, rather it's people with no experience.




Necromagnon said:


> Equipement means nothing. If you want, I can give you the link to the video report of a friend luthier that build an very nice Tele with no electricity at all (well, almost). Just with some hand tools you can buy for not very expensive, sharpened, and go on.
> About expertise, that's the builder matter to acquire it before starting is name. Look at how many builders could pretend to be pro here, and don't do so? They acquire the expertise by themselves. With your reasonement, I could actually start my own brand, sell not so high quality custom guitars for some expensive price and if somebody told me something about quality, I'll just have to say: "hey, wait. I'm new to the business, give me time."
> If everybody was doing it, I'm sure there will be some... problems.



I'm not going to reply to your nonsensical point about equipment not mattering. If you think that, then you're not thinking enough, clearly. I also have to defer to another member's argument made earlier: Do musicians have to master their instrument before they release it publicly? Are you yourself a master guitarist? Is your songwriting and technical facility at the very peak of your ability? I doubt it. But still, you release what you're happy with, and you probably wouldn't mind if people paid you for it.


----------



## thrsher

Wings of Obsidian said:


> So, I have officially cancelled my build after not hearing back from Matt for the longest time and being pushed to ass-end of the line. (Like I said, I talked with him back in September and October, but in November he slowed up, and I didn't hear a peep from him all December, January, and February. I tried to contact him. But I find it unfair that I came in first, had everything set, then all these guys like the Exptype guys and Lucas Mann from Rings of Saturn come in and he puts them first and goes ahead and does/advertises their builds. Meanwhile I got pushed to the ass-end of the line.)
> 
> I really wanted that Etherial...and I can't take my business to another luthier because no one else can do what me and Matt designed....but this is bullshit...



This happens to everyone will all builders. I ordered a vik july 20th 2011. Ive watched a group run, 4 project guitars and 3 artist builds all get started, some completed and others far more completed than my build which is paid in full. Some of these came shortly after my order and others much future down the line. Same shit happened with strictly 7 orders. Prepare to get used to it in the world of custom order. This is a factor to why people buy carvins.


----------



## Necromagnon

The Reverend said:


> Having another pair of experienced eyes is never a bad thing. They can spot things you didn't see. I bet every solo luthier you ask would tell you they wish they had someone to double-check their work sometimes.


Completely. It's never a loss to have other people watching at what you do. And when I build something, I'm very happy to have input of other people, that are knowledgeable about guitar building or not.
But when you don't have someone (and I'm sure he can ask anybody around him for input, as I do, and as many other luthier do), you have to do with your own eyes.



The Reverend said:


> Invictus was making huge mistakes on their high-profile builds, as well as fucking people over for money. With the exception of Wings, I haven't heard other people talking about Etherial doing that kind of stuff. The youth of the company has everything to do with the amateurish flaws we've seen here.


I choose this exemple because is a bit extreme, obviously. But you were saying that if the instrument is playable, you won't matter. And what I wanted to point out, is that nowadays, cosmetics count much more than luthiery. You can make the best guitar of all times, if it has a poor finish, everybody will shit on it. If you build a middle range guitar, good but far from a high end, but with an awesome finish, everybody will like it (at least at the first gaze).



The Reverend said:


> Are you doing stuff as far out there and experimental as Etherial's? Are your builds unprecedented? And do you have customers waiting on guitars you're building? Has anyone noticed how nobody who's received one of these guitars is complaining about them? Why is that, guys?


I don't see so much experimental in Etherial, sorry to say that. Carbon fiber molding is used for decades on guitar building, many friends who build their 1st guitar in carbon fibre reach a fairly great point in quality. For the rest, yes, I build custom guitars, never done somewhere else. Is it the most revolutionary guitars? So far from it. But that doesn't prevent the fact that I've no reference to base. I refer to stock guitars, or some luthiers guitars to see what is done and to where I should go. But everyone who's building something original can't rely on existing stuff. And you sort this out, so I answer on this point. 



The Reverend said:


> If I got a guitar like that, hell no I wouldn't play it. I'd get my money back. Luckily, your exaggeration is not the work Matt puts out, and you've succeeded in missing my point. I would expect maybe a little rough spot on a curve, or a small bit of inlay filler messed up. Keep in mind that Matt tells people these things during the build process, and nobody says, "Fuck it, Matt, let's just start over."


That's very honest, and have to be highlight. Not so many builders (not specially on guitars buildings) are hiding dark spots and let you find it, to have the time to run away with your money... -_-



The Reverend said:


> You really can't ask for more than what you get. These guitars technically aren't expensive, given the materials involved. You're not paying an extra grand just for the Etherial stamp on the headstock. At this point in Matt's career, he's like the custom luthier version of Agile. He embodies the saying "your mileage may vary." This is obvious, has been obvious, and I have to repeat that no customers of his are complaining, rather it's people with no experience.


I'm sorry but 3800$ for an 8 strings is not cheap. It's not the least expensive, but you have 2 Ran 8 for this price. And sorry also to say that but... Carbon fiber is much less expensive than a huge, dry, and beautifull piece of wood (well, depends on the wood in fact). About the extra for the name, sure you're not, like you're not paying it when you buy a Daemoness, a Vik, a KxK, or anything. 
For the complaints, we're not complaining at all (well, I think?). We were just highlight some things that appears, seen on the pictures, to be flaws, and that catched our eyes. After it, Nayon came to show some better pics of his own and make a testimonial on it. It's perfect and complete what we were all saying from the beginning: he's having a huge improvement in guitar building.
I think you have to loose this impression that we are trying to ruin his business. It would have been the same with any other builders, and still will be when there will be another thread like this on another builder.



The Reverend said:


> I'm not going to reply to your nonsensical point about equipment not mattering. If you think that, then you're not thinking enough, clearly.



You want to buy me all the stuff and tools? Go on, feel free to do so, I won't be more happy! But, anyway, from now on, I made myself with just a few tools, bought second hand, and I build 3 guitars (3 other are waiting) and except for the finish part (I'm really to bad at it), I've receive only good feedbacks.
So, please dude, go check many building threads here and report how many have a complete workshop with everything inside it. And compare it to the number of awesome amateur builds.



The Reverend said:


> I also have to defer to another member's argument made earlier: Do musicians have to master their instrument before they release it publicly? Are you yourself a master guitarist? Is your songwriting and technical facility at the very peak of your ability? I doubt it. But still, you release what you're happy with, and you probably wouldn't mind if people paid you for it.


You're talking about 2 completely different things: personnal/emotionnal and physical. Of course you don't wait to master your instrument before playing your music, like you don't wait to be shakespear to talk in public. That's stupid.
But about building something physical, you can and HAVE to learn to do it. If tomorrow, you start building a car (or everything you want) without knowing how to make one functionnal, would still try to build it and to sell it?
I just don't know how you can possibly think you can compare those two things.


----------



## codycarter

I like his work, its unique and original. I will admit his builds look tacky, but he has major potential and I am definitely a fan. Also, he is pretty new to the game, and is going at it in an unusual way, give him some time to work out the kinks


----------



## Polythoral

thrsher said:


> This happens to everyone will all builders. I ordered a vik july 20th 2011. Ive watched a group run, 4 project guitars and 3 artist builds all get started, some completed and others far more completed than my build which is paid in full. Some of these came shortly after my order and others much future down the line. Same shit happened with strictly 7 orders. Prepare to get used to it in the world of custom order. This is a factor to why people buy carvins.



Everything's stayed in order pretty perfectly so far during my Black Water build.






Anyways, though I can totally understand the reason, I still dislike when builders move artist builds up in front of other current builds.

I would agree though that you should stick with it if the specs and whatnot are what you really want and won't be able to get really anywhere else. Persevere to get exactly what you want, don't settle for less.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

thrsher said:


> This happens to everyone will all builders. I ordered a vik july 20th 2011. Ive watched a group run, 4 project guitars and 3 artist builds all get started, some completed and others far more completed than my build which is paid in full. Some of these came shortly after my order and others much future down the line. Same shit happened with strictly 7 orders. Prepare to get used to it in the world of custom order. This is a factor to why people buy carvins.


 
Thank you, thrsher.

I contacted Matt and apologized (just explaining that money is tight and I'm under stress) and said I would like to keep my build going.


----------



## patata

Buster from HLB told me the guitar was awesome.


----------



## thrsher

i plan on posting a build thread soon, i normally dont do it but given etherial is fairly new and there has been some interest/talks about the company i figure i would


----------



## NaYoN

patata said:


> Buster from HLB told me the guitar was awesome.



This is Buster's guitar for those who haven't seen it:


----------



## Alberto7

Huh, interesting design there. It reminds me of a crossover between an Agile Intrepid and an Ibanez RGD. I like it.


----------



## BlackMastodon

See I can get along with something like that; no overly gaudy tribal designs to muck it up (Noyan's TRON guitar is the tits, though). I do love that headstock design though.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

I think most of the tribal elements were added as a part of what the artist wanted. These things are subjective and there really is no point in bickering over who likes the design elements more or less than the next guy. It just comes down to what the artist wants and if they're happy with it. Every endorsee I've talked to from etherial has been absolutely gushing with positive feedback about the guitars. That's really what anyone that can't get any custom should base their opinion on, what the people that actually own one think about it. Pictures can only give you so much information and they hardly ever do the end product any justice. Just my .02 cents anyways


----------



## patata

NaYoN said:


> This is Buster's guitar for those who haven't seen it:



Thank you


----------



## patata

I also asked matthew for a price on a 7string FF,he told me a very nice price considering the specs,and he also told it's not a problem to skip the deep cut on the butt of the body.


----------



## patata

thrsher said:


> i can attest that matts customer service is top notch.



Well,the last mail I sent him was in thursday,still no answer.But yeah he is hella cool.


----------



## NaYoN

patata said:


> Well,the last mail I sent him was in thursday,still no answer.But yeah he is hella cool.



Try contacting him through facebook. I never emailed him.


----------



## Hollowway

thrsher said:


> i plan on posting a build thread soon, i normally dont do it but given etherial is fairly new and there has been some interest/talks about the company i figure i would



What did you order? Like what body type, specs, etc?


----------



## thrsher

Hollowway said:


> What did you order? Like what body type, specs, etc?



didnt i send you the spec sheet?


----------



## thrsher

patata said:


> Well,the last mail I sent him was in thursday,still no answer.But yeah he is hella cool.



i actaully emailed him last monday and havent heard back yet, i know he is super busy, not worried though, i know he will respond


----------



## pestilentdecay

Jesus...that 10 string is finished


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## NaYoN

That looks really sick, even I'm kinda jealous


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## patata

NaYoN said:


> Try contacting him through facebook. I never emailed him.



I talk to him through FB.He responded.No worries on that.He's one hell of a dude.


----------



## Konfyouzd

pestilentdecay said:


> Jesus...that 10 string is finished



Damn... This one looks good!


----------



## jonajon91

I would have had the fretboard end at an angle or have frets hit the end like on strandbergs, I think it looks kind if odd with that triangle there. 
Yeah, I just made a thread on this without checking here first.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Very cool concept but I do agree with jona regarding the fretboard end. At probably to do with greater surface area for gluing the neck in. 

The little things still bug me though.


----------



## penguin_316

The Reverend said:


> Damn, homies. My understanding is that this Matt character is fairly new to the type of work he does, in the sense that he's now somewhat known in the world of sought-after luthiers who make ERGs.
> 
> I saw some definite flaws in the pictures posted throughout this thread, but I personally don't think they would break my heart to see when pulling out a guitar unlike any other in existence from the box. I believe in this dude's work, especially if he gets the chance to improve over time. He's not making Roter mistakes, and he's not making incredible claims about his work, at least to my knowledge. Seems to me that he's willing to take an idea and make that idea a reality. There's no standard playbook for making some of the guitars he makes. Of course there will be some mistakes.
> 
> I also don't understand the issue about his pricing. He doesn't pillage your bank account for his work, and I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done, he doesn't walk away with a huge profit. For the reputation he has, the builds he makes, and the service he provides, all while being a normal guy with bills to pay, he's very reasonable.
> 
> Should you have high expectations for a guitar made by someone who loves to make guitars? Yeah. Should you point out flaws in a constructive manner to that person, so they know what to work on? Of course. But we're treading a very thin line between constructive dialogue and focusing on ideological opinions that achieve nothing in the real world.
> 
> TL;DR: Point these things out to Matt, have some perspective, and don't assume that your view is the ruler by which all others are measured.



A profit? His prices are so low he may be taking losses. Some people don't understand the nuts and bolts of building such instruments, let alone the dollar per hour wage. The only highly inconsistent thing to me are his inlays, but have any of you ever tried to do inlays? Didn't think so, it's quite difficult.


----------



## NaYoN

penguin_316 said:


> A profit? His prices are so low he may be taking losses. Some people don't understand the nuts and bolts of building such instruments, let alone the dollar per hour wage.



^ pretty much that


----------



## Necromagnon

penguin_316 said:


> A profit? His prices are so low he may be taking losses. Some people don't understand the nuts and bolts of building such instruments, let alone the dollar per hour wage. The only highly inconsistent thing to me are his inlays, but have any of you ever tried to do inlays? Didn't think so, it's quite difficult.


Why starting this debate again?
Obviously, building guitars is not easy, otherwise everybody here would have his own brand. But those this stopped people to get perfect work and present only flawless stuff? I mean, look at Daemoness for example (I'm not a fan -far from it in fact- of his guitars). He's making really incredible inlay, and those inlays are as hard as those ones presented here, and even harder to get. Does it prevent him from presenting flawless stuff?

So, yes, it's hard, but that's of no excuse.

But after that, Matt work is kinda great anyway (in terms of technics, I really hate those aesthetics  ), and the playability of the guitars has been certified by all owners, so there's no way to start again this debate, imo.

PS: I agree with capo, the work still needs to be perfectionned. The placement of those tuners is quite random... :/


----------



## jonajon91

*ahem*


----------



## Necromagnon

Personnal impression: ... beurk... :/
This bridge cavity layout is very strange. I don't know what kind of bridge's gonna be on this one?


----------



## Thrashmanzac

a kahler.


----------



## danresn

I own one of Matt's earliest guitars. This particular model has been brought up in the thread a number of times. You should be able to tell what the guitar is from my profile photo, but if not it is the one made to resemble zebrawood. I would like to explain what I received when I ordered my guitar

Custom Fretboard radius
8 Strings
Comfortable neck join
My choice of woods
Customised control layout and hardware
Customised guitar finish
Matte neck finish
Satin body finish
Barenuckle Aftermaths
Grover locking straplocks
Spare strings
Hard case
Photos every 48 hours
Very fast and reliable email responses (Some within 15 minutes)
Glow in the dark inlays
The tracking number within a few hours of my payment being cleared

I won't be going in to the flaws of the instrument in to much depth as they have already been pointed out on the previous pages. The flaws are there and they are noticeable but I believe his later builds are much better and his prices changed accordingly. At the time I got this instrument it was the cheapest 8 string in Australia, including production models (eg Schecter Hellraiser 8, Ibanez RG2228 etc).

I firmly believe I got what I paid for with this guitar. This does not mean I am defending the flaws of this guitar, because they do evidently exist. I just want to put into perspective what he offered on the early guitars and at a ballpoint for the price.

I am very happy with my guitar but I do not believe at all that it is at the standard of a Vik, Blackmachine, Mayones etc.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Newest post from Etherial in case anyone missed it


----------



## Alberto7

I'm curious to see how that inlay work turns out. It looks VERY intricate (I'm assuming all that is going to be inlaid). Also, the names of some Etherial guitars are very... elaborate . Not hating, of course, just curious


----------



## NaYoN

Alberto7 said:


> I'm curious to see how that inlay work turns out. It looks VERY intricate (I'm assuming all that is going to be inlaid). Also, the names of some Etherial guitars are very... elaborate . Not hating, of course, just curious



I think he's inspired by Celtic mythology or something like that.


----------



## Gregori

I enjoy a lot of his work, minus the tribal designs. He makes the only pointy guitars that I like.


----------



## User Name

who cares about all this fuss, where else can you get a guitar like this


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

This is actually my bass 
There are some features on this that are going to straight up blow your minds!!! One is actually discernible from this render, and no its not the fanned frets , although I'm excited for that as well 




Alberto7 said:


> I'm curious to see how that inlay work turns out. It looks VERY intricate (I'm assuming all that is going to be inlaid). Also, the names of some Etherial guitars are very... elaborate . Not hating, of course, just curious



He let me pick the name, the only stipulation is he wanted something celtic. The name actually means, Knowledge, luck, and chaos. There are a lot of themes I've managed to smash into this monster and I liked the way the name summed em all up 



User Name said:


> who cares about all this fuss, where else can you get a guitar like this



Exactly! Thank you! Hahah that's exactly the reason why I went to Matt instead of anywhere else! I talked to several luthiers that either wouldn't take the build or couldn't build to all the specs I wanted. Not to say those luthiers don't make incredible stuff, this is just really....unusual


----------



## Alberto7

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> This is actually my bass
> There are some features on this that are going to straight up blow your minds!!! One is actually discernible from this render, and no its not the fanned frets , although I'm excited for that as well



A zero-fret, maybe? Or perhaps something to do with that whole slab of carbon fiber being some sort of cover for the electronics chamber?  Now you got me curious 



CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> He let me pick the name, the only stipulation is he wanted something celtic. The name actually means, Knowledge, luck, and chaos. There are a lot of themes I've managed to smash into this monster and I liked the way the name summed em all up



Aaahh okay! I tried Googling those three names and came up with no results, so I found it weird that someone would just make words up like that . Good to know though!


----------



## Necromagnon

User Name said:


> who cares about all this fuss, where else can you get a guitar like this


To any custom shop, maybe?

Oups, sorry... 

(To explain myself a bit, because I'm sure nobody will understand it correctly: if you have your design, you should be able to give it to any custom builder and have it. Some have specialities -like those horny/spiky shapes with Matt- but anyway, anybody should be able to build you one like this if it's "builtable").


----------



## AwDeOh

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> There are some features on this that are going to straight up blow your minds!!!



Holy shit - bacon inlays?!?


----------



## MassNecrophagia

AwDeOh said:


> Holy shit - bacon inlays?!?


Made of actual bacon


----------



## User Name

Necromagnon said:


> To any custom shop, maybe?
> 
> Oups, sorry...
> 
> (To explain myself a bit, because I'm sure nobody will understand it correctly: if you have your design, you should be able to give it to any custom builder and have it. Some have specialities -like those horny/spiky shapes with Matt- but anyway, anybody should be able to build you one like this if it's "builtable").


definitely not, i can bet he is one of the only luthiers that will inlay glow in the dark shit! or cover the guitar with carbon fiber! 

i think these guitars are very unique.


----------



## NaYoN

Necromagnon said:


> To any custom shop, maybe?
> 
> Oups, sorry...
> 
> (To explain myself a bit, because I'm sure nobody will understand it correctly: if you have your design, you should be able to give it to any custom builder and have it. Some have specialities -like those horny/spiky shapes with Matt- but anyway, anybody should be able to build you one like this if it's "builtable").



Nope. I've spoken with many custom shops and Matt was the only one who was able to say "yes" to all the specs I wanted. And yes, I even spoke to all the shops that everyone reveres here.


----------



## celticelk

Necromagnon said:


> To any custom shop, maybe?
> 
> Oups, sorry...
> 
> (To explain myself a bit, because I'm sure nobody will understand it correctly: if you have your design, you should be able to give it to any custom builder and have it. Some have specialities -like those horny/spiky shapes with Matt- but anyway, anybody should be able to build you one like this if it's "builtable").



I have, on two separate occasions, had custom builders reject a spec proposal because they didn't think it was an appropriate choice. And this wasn't for something weird like holographic inlays or a built-in beer cozy - this was about wood selection.


----------



## Necromagnon

I know this, no prob. And I'm in fact throwing the stone to those who say no. This is only my conception of the work, but I think that when you're making something "custom", you do something custom. if you make series model, then it's not custom.

I like to work only with unique concept instrument, so if someone come with a crazy idea like this, I'm the happiest guy ever. If it's to build a Laiho RR copy or a BM copy, there's no point.

After that, i've seen many builders (mostly amateur, I agree) doing crazy stuff, with strange shapes and carbon fiber, glow in the dark inlay, etc.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Alberto7 said:


> A zero-fret, maybe? Or perhaps something to do with that whole slab of carbon fiber being some sort of cover for the electronics chamber?  Now you got me curious



Ahh lol you're on the right track for one of em 



AwDeOh said:


> Holy shit - bacon inlays?!?



Oh god! Hahah that's brilliant! But I don't want to end up eating my custom bass...that would defeat the purpose a bit  I'm gonna go make me a grilled cheese and bacon bass now...cause it sounds delicious...stay tuned....


----------



## AwDeOh

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> I'm gonna go make me a grilled cheese and bacon bass now...cause it sounds delicious...stay tuned....



A grilled bacon and cheese bass won't stay tuned.. now you're just being silly.


----------



## Metal_Webb

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Ahh lol you're on the right track for one of em



Hang up, he's not being totally crazy and doing a CF/timber composite body by any chance?


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

AwDeOh said:


> A grilled bacon and cheese bass won't stay tuned.. now you're just being silly.



Ah yes, however there is a slimjim truss rod! The latest and greatest in edible truss rod technology!!!



Metal_Webb said:


> Hang up, he's not being totally crazy and doing a CF/timber composite body by any chance?



Actually yes lol that too. It has a blue gum body, blackbut neck and jarrah fretboard with carbon fiber shell over the neck and skin over the fretboard as well on the back of the body


----------



## Alberto7

^ That's kind of one of Etherial's "trademarks" anyway, no? Like Noyan's build; it's basically wrapped in the thing.

My best guess so far would be a sort of chambered body where that carbon fiber panel on the back serves as the cover, with the electronics somewhere in a corner. If the panel is made removable, then that would mean you could, theoretically at least, change the guitar's tone, just like you'd put pillows in a bass drum. Then again, perhaps I'm just giving my imagination a bit too much room to run wild here . I don't see that idea as a very practical addition either, but a nice touch for experimentation.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Alberto7 said:


> ^ That's kind of one of Etherial's "trademarks" anyway, no? Like Noyan's build; it's basically wrapped in the thing.
> 
> My best guess so far would be a sort of chambered body where that carbon fiber panel on the back serves as the cover, with the electronics somewhere in a corner. If the panel is made removable, then that would mean you could, theoretically at least, change the guitar's tone, just like you'd put pillows in a bass drum. Then again, perhaps I'm just giving my imagination a bit too much room to run wild here . I don't see that idea as a very practical addition either, but a nice touch for experimentation.



Yeah lol he has really taken to the carbon fiber thing XD Its good to see that someone has, since it really is a fantastic alternative to ebony and is incredibly strong compared to its weight. 

And close, but no  although that is a pretty sweet idea to be honest hahah someone should really look into that actually! I'll let Matt do the big reveal though, since it was his idea hah he messaged me a while back while we were still getting all the specs together and was like hey...I've been thinking about doing something like *********, would you want to try it with the bass? And naturally, my response was, uhm hell yes!?  Then a little later he messages me again with something even more insane! I love this guy  no other builder would take all my specs, Matt took them even further into the realm of insanity. I love seeing someone open to experimenting and pushing the boundaries of the guitar building industry


----------



## jonajon91

So he can do graphics as well!

---edit---




Im guessing this is the one on their home page


----------



## jonajon91




----------



## jonajon91

more to come (P stands for Pointy)


----------



## MetalBuddah

S8P


----------



## celticelk

I actually kinda like the T1, although that's probably as close as I'd get to a "metal" body shape.


----------



## jonajon91

celticelk said:


> I actually kinda like the T1, although that's probably as close as I'd get to a "metal" body shape.



I second that. Its a unique design without being a spiky clusterf*ck and weird angles.


----------



## jonajon91

3rd installment
Dat T3!!


----------



## celticelk

The T2 reminds me of my OAF singlecut 8. I do wish the lower horns were a bit shorter and more rounded, though.


----------



## wookie606

T3 or S12.


----------



## jonajon91

celticelk said:


> The T2 reminds me of my OAF singlecut 8. I do wish the lower horns were a bit shorter and more rounded, though.



+1

Im not too sure about an S12. It may be classic, but you don't go to etherial for a superstrat. Thats like Getting a strandberg with a headstock or going with dean and not getting dimebags face on your guitar


----------



## AwDeOh

Assuming the 24th fret access is comfortable, that Amaranth looks rather cool.


----------



## patata

The Amaranth is really abstract.But nothing in compare to...



this
It's like a dude saying hi.
(no bash)


----------



## Walterson

patata said:


> It's like a dude saying hi.(no bash)



To me it looks more like an alien amoeba saying hi....


----------



## patata

Walterson said:


> To me it looks more like an alien amoeba saying hi....



Whatever it is,it says hi


----------



## jonajon91

Last ones ... I think





Definitely getting more abstract on the last page.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

the AAE doesnt look too bad, id want that lower horn to look different though


----------



## NaYoN

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> the AAE doesnt look too bad, id want that lower horn to look different though



The point of the AAE is to be comfortable in both classical guitar position and regular electric guitar position (aka on your right leg and between your legs)


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

The AAE is my body XD I'm pretty sure the amarath bodies are the ones we decided against but still pretty sweet lol


----------



## AwDeOh

I guess the majority of guitar players are a bit more conservative, while only a minority are interested in the 'out there' guitars. It might just be my opinion but I think the more evil shapes have had their time in the sun, a bit like Corduroy. They'll probably be back in the future though. 

I'm guilty of having a laugh at Etherial's expense over some of the aspects like top carving, in all honesty it's nice to see him being inventive and original. Reminds me a little of Decibel Guitars, very progressive design.


----------



## DarkWolfXV

jonajon91 said:


> Last ones ... I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely getting more abstract on the last page.



The last one is superb and awesome, kinda cooler BC Rich Warlock.


----------



## MetalBuddah

AwDeOh said:


> I guess the majority of guitar players are a bit more conservative, while only a minority are interested in the 'out there' guitars. It might just be my opinion but I think the more evil shapes have had their time in the sun, a bit like Corduroy. They'll probably be back in the future though.
> 
> I'm guilty of having a laugh at Etherial's expense over some of the aspects like top carving, in all honesty it's nice to see him being inventive and original. Reminds me a little of Decibel Guitars, very progressive design.



I agree with you on the evil shape thing. However, if I got an Etherial I would get a shape that is somewhere in the middle of conservative and "evil." If I get an Etherial in the future (which is a big possibility), I don't want just some run of the mill strat or tele shape. Hell....I wouldn't want that with any company if I was getting my own custom. A custom should be unique and Matt really grasps that concept. It is refreshing to see a luthier actually try outlandish/new things and not reject paying customers when the specs they want for their customs are a bit too out of the ordinary. You would be very surprised if I told you some of the luthiers that turned down NaYoN because of the specs he wanted for his *CUSTOM* 9 string.

For the record....I would play the shit out of the AAE body style


----------



## Basti

Still waiting on pics of that 16 string build


----------



## jonajon91

^ yes. A very secretive builder. I guess from just what he has posted, little bits that are "things he is working on" that have yet to see light. I guess he has 10 or 12 builds in progress at the moment.

---edit---

This is the AAE


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

NaYoN said:


> The point of the AAE is to be comfortable in both classical guitar position and regular electric guitar position (aka on your right leg and between your legs)


im sure it ballances great but to me it doesnt really flow with the rest of the body, if that bottom point was removed so it flowed from the body to the top point it would look much better IMO


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Sooo....who would be interested in seeing my Etherial build? (Finally finished spec-ing everything out with Matt. Been doing that shit since September/October.)


----------



## jonajon91

Who here would not be interested in that?
Seriously, I follow Etherial religiously so seeing some new stuff would be great!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Who here would not be interested in that?
> Seriously, I follow Etherial religiously so seeing some new stuff would be great!



I'm not sure if I can release the details and stuff yet. I gotta wait for the ok-go from Matt at Etherial.

But here is a little tidbit of info: I'm the guy who inspired the S5P and S8P body-styles. (I told Matt originally that I wanted the S5 back in September or October, but I wanted it to have some wicked sharp horns and bevels, sort of similiar to an Ibanez 2127z, so he filed down the horns and contours and bevels to make them more pointy for me. I didn't know it inspired him to write it down as a whole new body-style though!)


----------



## jonajon91

Another page inbound, each spikier than the last!

I think he has built the scartha before, ill try and dig out some pictures.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Another page inbound, each spikier than the last!
> 
> I think he has built the scartha before, ill try and dig out some pictures.



This was already posted a page or two back. And yes, he has built a Scartha, and he has another one for My Heart to Fear coming up....(but they will probably never get their builds done).


----------



## NaYoN

Matt recently showed me some stuff he has cooking for the future. I can't really talk about it, but it's something that will appeal to a lot of people and will be pretty evolutionary...


----------



## jonajon91

Wings of Obsidian said:


> This was already posted a page or two back.



Nope. It was only put on facebook today.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Wings of Obsidian said:


> This was already posted a page or two back. And yes, he has built a Scartha, and he has another one for My Heart to Fear coming up....(but they will probably never get their builds done).



I've been wondering why those builds have taken so long, is it that they haven't been paying up on em, keep changing their specs or something? My build has almost caught up to theirs and they have been in the works for much longer. I can't imagine its that Matt hasn't been getting them done, there has to be something else with these things.


----------



## jonajon91

^ I would also be interested to hear about this.


----------



## patata

Lorica would look sick as a V


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone have pictures of the scartha he built? I'd love to see how that webby back end looks. (A real one, though. I saw the mockups on the website.)


----------



## jonajon91

This is the only picture I can find


----------



## jonajon91

And for the doubters, the 'Dun Na Porth' shape; this one,




can be played like this; 




this, 




or this.


----------



## Hollowway

^ I'm sorry, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Why can't these guitars just be aggressively designed? This is like saying death metal is designed for the elderly because the low pitch of the gutteral vocals is audible to their old ears. I know Matt is not asking my advice, but I'd can the rationalization that this shapes provide better "tesselation" than standard guitars and just let them be the novel, aggressive designs they already are.


----------



## jonajon91

mmm. 'Playing position 2' looks like you would have to have a hole in your right thigh to fit it.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> I've been wondering why those builds have taken so long, is it that they haven't been paying up on em, keep changing their specs or something? My build has almost caught up to theirs and they have been in the works for much longer. I can't imagine its that Matt hasn't been getting them done, there has to be something else with these things.



I just don't think they have paid or have the money at all. Same with Christos Mylonas's build.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> Matt recently showed me some stuff he has cooking for the future. I can't really talk about it, but it's something that will appeal to a lot of people and will be pretty evolutionary...



"One does not simply say that to a fellow Etherialite."

Now I must ask Matt since I spoke with him a day or so ago.


----------



## The Reverend

I like Matt's willingness to throw out crazy designs. Ultra-aggressive styles don't really speak to me, although I'd rather see things like the last few pages of body profiles posted in here as opposed to people getting custom Strat clones or something.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I just don't think they have paid or have the money at all. Same with Christos Mylonas's build.



That's absolutely not okay by any means. Who does that??  Had we started my build right away, I wouldn't have been able to afford it, but because I had a little time I worked my ass off to make absolutely certain I would be able to pay the man his well deserved money on time. I would have even delayed the initial start had that not been the case, although I really would have hated that . That's unbelievably childish and immature that they would go through with it, knowing that they don't have the money to pay for it. I'd say he should just throw them up for auction starting at the cost of his parts and let it just go from there to get his money back. I would be absolutely livid if someone did that to me.


----------



## Hollowway

The Reverend said:


> I like Matt's willingness to throw out crazy designs. Ultra-aggressive styles don't really speak to me, although I'd rather see things like the last few pages of body profiles posted in here as opposed to people getting custom Strat clones or something.



Totally. So many companies make boring replicas of standard shapes and then give them cool and aggressive names (and I don't even just mean guitar companies. Car companies are guilty of that, too.) Matt is actually making cool and aggressive guitars. Some of the stuff he's doing, like the body inlays, the trabecular webbing (like on the Scartha) are things I've never seen before. Not all of them are things I'd buy, but I really respect his creativity.


----------



## ormsby guitars

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> That's absolutely not okay by any means. Who does that??  Had we started my build right away, I wouldn't have been able to afford it, but because I had a little time I worked my ass off to make absolutely certain I would be able to pay the man his well deserved money on time. I would have even delayed the initial start had that not been the case, although I really would have hated that . That's unbelievably childish and immature that they would go through with it, knowing that they don't have the money to pay for it. I'd say he should just throw them up for auction starting at the cost of his parts and let it just go from there to get his money back. I would be absolutely livid if someone did that to me.



Huh?? If my clients cant make a payment, thats totally cool. I'll get on to one of the other 60 orders. When they have the money, they simply let me know and I get back onto it. Want a year or two to travel? Sure! Want to start a business and let the custom sit for a bit, Be my guest! Lose your job before the last $500 is due, after waiting an ungodly amount of time for the guitar to be built? No problems mate, let me know when things are cool, because this is YOUR dream guitar.

But to sell it from under them? And for the 'cost of parts'? That's just crazy.

One January a few years ago, I had 8 clients, that collectively owed $7000, ALL ask to extend their builds due to finances (just after xmas of course). I was happy to do that. EVERY one of them has come back and spent more, and more, and more. That's what happens when you treat people exactly how you'd hope to be treated if you were in 'trouble'.

Im a person, before Im a business owner. And my clients are considered my family, not just dollar signs. 

Hell, I gave a client the full value of his guitar, as a loan, when all his travellers cheques, credit cards, and cash was stolen whilst holidaying once. He was left virtually penniless, in a foreign land. The deal? Get someone to drop the guitar off to me, i'll wire him a few grand, and he can pay back the cash when you can. I'd rather we did that, than him sell it in a rush to cash up, and regret it.


----------



## jonajon91

Perhaps you would buy this one though. Went up on facebook today.






> S5 custom multiscale 9 string. Full details shortly. Body: blackhearted sassafras Fretboard: Gidgee Fretboard inlay: Blackbutt and Jarrah S5 custom multiscale 9 string. Full details shortly. Body: blackhearted sassafras Fretboard: Gidgee Fretboard inlay: Blackbutt and Jarrah


I personally cant wait for some closer shots, especially the inlays! interesting woods too


----------



## jonajon91

TaDaa! it's as if they can hear me.
can someone with a little more knowledge in inlay quality comment on that? I don't know what i'm looking at, but I will say that the wood used on the non-inlay parts of the neck (the darker wood) looks phenomenal!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

It's funny. ^ this was built for a Facebook-friend of mine, and he doesn't even know the specs. I mean nothing. Jack shit. How damn stupid can you be to order your dream guitar from a custom builder and not even know the specs you are dishing out all the money for? (This guy is a "bandwagon" follower.)

Me and CaptainLuckeyBeard are tight. We be like dis: 

Lol


----------



## FruitCakeRonin

Pretty clever, concealing these axes as guitars, your enemies will never know what hit them.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

ormsby guitars said:


> Huh?? If my clients cant make a payment, thats totally cool. I'll get on to one of the other 60 orders. When they have the money, they simply let me know and I get back onto it. Want a year or two to travel? Sure! Want to start a business and let the custom sit for a bit, Be my guest! Lose your job before the last $500 is due, after waiting an ungodly amount of time for the guitar to be built? No problems mate, let me know when things are cool, because this is YOUR dream guitar.
> 
> But to sell it from under them? And for the 'cost of parts'? That's just crazy.
> 
> One January a few years ago, I had 8 clients, that collectively owed $7000, ALL ask to extend their builds due to finances (just after xmas of course). I was happy to do that. EVERY one of them has come back and spent more, and more, and more. That's what happens when you treat people exactly how you'd hope to be treated if you were in 'trouble'.
> 
> Im a person, before Im a business owner. And my clients are considered my family, not just dollar signs.
> 
> Hell, I gave a client the full value of his guitar, as a loan, when all his travellers cheques, credit cards, and cash was stolen whilst holidaying once. He was left virtually penniless, in a foreign land. The deal? Get someone to drop the guitar off to me, i'll wire him a few grand, and he can pay back the cash when you can. I'd rather we did that, than him sell it in a rush to cash up, and regret it.



Huh...well there's a reason why you're as successful as you are then  I didn't really think about it that way. It makes perfect sense honestly. I suppose I'd just be irritated with people ordering something as labor intensive and costly as a custom guitar knowing they don't have the money to pay for it. That's pretty disrespectful towards the builder in my eyes. Its like hey, I know you are trying to run a legitimate business, but I don't care because I am more concerned with getting a sweet new guitar. Now if they had something come up and got set back, by all means get yourself back on track and get your money situation together. Honestly, I've seen your work before and thought it was absolutely killer, but after that, I gotta say, you've just racked up a lot of respect in my book. Its truly reassuring to know guys like you and Matt, who is the same way, i.e. a great honest businessman, are out there.


----------



## Pikka Bird

This only works if you're two-dimensional. A guitar can't sit like that on a regular, spatial person's lap unless he's into some truly masochistic anti-ergonomics. If he'd drawn it the other way, with the treble horn on the left knee and the ass-stinger on the thigh then sure, but this way has the neck in the single least comfortable spot.

Holloway: That's basically my thoughts on that explanation as well.


jonajon91 said:


> can someone with a little more knowledge in inlay quality comment on that? I don't know what i'm looking at, but I will say that the wood used on the non-inlay parts of the neck (the darker wood) looks phenomenal!


Still way too much filler used, although it's sorta hidden by the colours of the woods. But he's getting better at least. I'd prefer that board blank, though.


----------



## jonajon91

I agree that the inlay work is getting much better, but I am not too sure about too much filler, I can barely see any (with my untrained eye).


Pikka Bird said:


> I'd prefer that board blank, though.


Seconded, cool inlay, but the wood is just so pretty


----------



## Pikka Bird

jonajon91 said:


> I agree that the inlay work is getting much better, but I am not too sure about too much filler, I can barely see any (with my untrained eye).



That's because it's dark filler against dark wood. I've attached a picture where I mapped the main offenders, as far as I see. Compare it to the original if you want.


----------



## jonajon91

Ah, I see it now. Its subtle, but it is there.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Yay! We are back to this age-old argument....... <.<'


----------



## capoeiraesp

Well bugger it. That's a great looking guitar and I'm the harshest critic of Etherial on here. 
Obviously there aren't any close up pics to suss out the finer details but this is definitely looking like improvement.


----------



## jonajon91

Moar pics 







> 9 string version of the Strandberg Guitars' patent pending EndurNeck&#8482; profile,
> Used with permission under a limited, non-exclusive license.
> 
> Timbers:
> Body profiles: S5
> Body: Blackhearted sassafras
> Neck: Blackhearted sassafras core with Jarrah sides
> 
> Tuned: C# F# B E A D G b e on a 28.5- 26" multiscale, full specs coming



Is this the first 9 string endurneck?


----------



## Pikka Bird

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Yay! We are back to this age-old argument....... <.<'



Well, he asked... And since Etherial are always maxing out on extremely intricate tribal inlays then I think it stays relevant until they're near flawless.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I gotta tell ya, with 9s on the rise in popularity, I just don't see the point in them. You wanna chug more or something? To me, that 9th string sounds like a fart almost.


----------



## Necromagnon

I agree with Pikka about the excess of grain filler. But, yes, he's improving, a lot, and that's good to see (but I still found he's design... well... not my cup of tea). Also, one thing that is not tolerable for me: why the hell is this electronic cavity plate not recessed, seriously?! (it works for others, even those brands I like, like Parker)

About the fingerboard, I think it's some dyed flame maple. The figure is really narrow, and it's not really common dark purple woods as far as I know (cocobolo, some indian rosewood, etc.). But yes, this blank without this excessive inlay would have been really cool!

PS:


> I gotta tell ya, with 9s on the rise in popularity, I just don't see the point in them. You wanna chug more or something? To me, that 9th string sounds like a fart almost.


I do agree here also. Except sticks, I don't see the point of having more than 8 strings (and even 8 strings are, imo, best used in coupled/hybrid picking in clean tones).


----------



## patata

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I gotta tell ya, with 9s on the rise in popularity, I just don't see the point in them. You wanna chug more or something? To me, that 9th string sounds like a fart almost.



With all these knobs and switches,I think it will be mostly used for tapping stuff.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> With all these knobs and switches,I think it will be mostly used for tapping stuff.



Piezo mate.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> PS:
> 
> I do agree here also. Except sticks, I don't see the point of having more than 8 strings (and even 8 strings are, imo, best used in coupled/hybrid picking in clean tones).



Hmmm...idk about that man, I mean like, I play an 8, but I am able to drop tune it and maintain clarity ya know?

New Untitled Groovy Slam Song Demo (Raw, Unmixed, and Unmastered) - YouTube

(Don't hate on this video. It is just me doing improv and testing a new tone over a drum track.)

Anyway...I really want to show you guys my Etherial custom design! ^-^ But I also kind of want to be a total prick and keep it to myself and build up the suspense element of things.


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Hmmm...idk about that man, I mean like, I play an 8, but I am able to drop tune it and maintain clarity ya know?
> 
> New Untitled Groovy Slam Song Demo (Raw, Unmixed, and Unmastered) - YouTube


I can't watch the video, I got an error message telling me that I'd probably have to install another application? 

But what I wanted is that 8 strings are ok (evenif I prefer it in hybrid picking), I'm a huge fan of Meshuggah and some other bands using 8's, and I use one myself (but I'm too bad player to say or show anything ).
But 9, with an overdrive sound, it sounds really to muddy, there's no real distinction of the note. And there's (normally) a bass player in a band.



> With all these knobs and switches,I think it will be mostly used for tapping stuff.


Where's the relation between knobs and switch, and the use? You can use a gaz factory for simple metal/rock songs, and very simple guitars for "complicated"/prog/jazzy songs. There're strictly NO relation (imo) between electronics and songs played (with the exception of wanting always more to show other that you don't use 1% of the possibilities of the guitar...)


----------



## DarkWolfXV

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Hmmm...idk about that man, I mean like, I play an 8, but I am able to drop tune it and maintain clarity ya know?
> 
> New Untitled Groovy Slam Song Demo (Raw, Unmixed, and Unmastered) - YouTube
> 
> (Don't hate on this video. It is just me doing improv and testing a new tone over a drum track.)
> 
> Anyway...I really want to show you guys my Etherial custom design! ^-^ But I also kind of want to be a total prick and keep it to myself and build up the suspense element of things.



The first riff is totally awesome, and so is the solo


----------



## jonajon91

Necromagnon said:


> Why the hell is this electronic cavity plate not recessed, seriously?!



According to someone else on here, The customer did not even know the specs of this build. With that kind of idiocracy, he probably asked for it.

---

Also, lets keep this on the topic of the guitar/company instead of the use of the guitar. If the customer wants to chug augmented 4ths on the 9th string, so be it, but we don't know that, it could be used for something special or it may even be something for looking at. I know my bass was used as wall decoration by the previous owner and was played about 3 times.


----------



## Necromagnon

jonajon91 said:


> According to someone else on here, The customer did not even know the specs of this build. With that kind of idiocracy, he probably asked for it.


I'm not sure it's something you spec out when asking for a custom build with a luthier. It's more generally proper to the builder himslef not wanting to "bother" with recessin the cavity plate and the difficulties linked with it (but with a proper made templates, there's nothing as easy as it...).


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Strandberg posted a new picture today on Facebook of some Lundgren M9s (regular and slanted versions) that he got in. YES M9!!!! 9-strings are on the rise apparently....


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

DarkWolfXV said:


> The first riff is totally awesome, and so is the solo



Thanks bro.


----------



## jonajon91

Update pics on the Lucas Mann guitar.




Says he is keeping a lot of it under wraps, but this is what it will look like





Not my favorite etherial design, but still damn tasty.


----------



## Necromagnon

The neck looks really wide for an 8 string, I think because the body is to narrow for it. Also, the lower horn will be fragile as hell. I hop he will never let it fall down... But there's a very nice inspiration behind this design. Most probably the one I prefer in all his design: original, and not a simple spiky-ripp-off of a classical tele/strat/V design, not "too much" (except for the inlay, I prefer the concept on Nayon's guitar for that).


----------



## jonajon91

I second that about the lower horn, but would the carbon fiber coating make it stronger? I am also interested in seeing those neck inlays when they're done.


----------



## Necromagnon

It might help a bit, I guess. But not sure it will completely erase the weakness of this part. Anyway, it's not the part you hit walls with, generally...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> It might help a bit, I guess. But not sure it will completely erase the weakness of this part. Anyway, it's not the part you hit walls with, generally...



Yeah, that tends to be the headstock. 

I am still iffy about this design. When I found out that Lucas joined us in the Etherial realm, I was amped! Then I saw this design and (even though the inlays are cool) I wanted to vomit a bit. The body is weird, might be uncomfortable with the awkward (less angular) contours, and the body is in fact too tiny (whoever said that above). I wonder what possessed Lucas to design such as bizarre axe.

One thing I would change is the fretboard inlay. Dude....every other fret needs to have an encapsolation/incubation tube on it (like the ones on the cover of _Embryonic Anomaly_, any sci-if nerds know what I am talking about). The body inlays are similiar to something on my design though...

(For anyone interested, I will upload a rendering of my guitar.)


----------



## jonajon91

Id love to see it. I agree with the inlay on the neck though, If you are going to have an extravagant inlay across the neck, have it across the neck and not on alternate frets. I do like the body shape though, I think it looks quite comfortable.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Id love to see it. I agree with the inlay on the neck though, If you are going to have an extravagant inlay across the neck, have it across the neck and not on alternate frets. I do like the body shape though, I think it looks quite comfortable.



Shit, sorry bro, Matt just gave me a thumbs-down for sharing the design, until he commences building it and it is further along in the process. (He says people tend to steal ideas. And I must agree.)


----------



## jonajon91

That fair enough. All is fair in love and war ... and guitar making.
Anyway, here are some V templates he has been working on.


----------



## patata

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Piezo mate.



My point exactly,who's using piezo for chugging?

EDIT:
Dat Gwenllian!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> My point exactly,who's using piezo for chugging?
> 
> EDIT:
> Dat Gwenllian!



I must say, the lowest string on an 8-string sounds good clean and through a piezo. The 9th string is even bassier and would sound nice...but I still wonder, ya know?...


----------



## patata

jonajon91 said:


> That fair enough. All is fair in love and war ... and guitar making.
> Anyway, here are some V templates he has been working on.



A 7 string Shard fanned fret bass.

How much before somebody places that order?

Place your bets.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> A 7 string Shard fanned fret bass.
> 
> How much before somebody places that order?
> 
> Place your bets.



I will agree with that for the most part.

A six or seven-string fanned fret Shard bass IS going to be in the making soon!

But I think someone might do it up with a compound form like Linus from Obscura (fretted low end, Fretless high end). YES!!!


----------



## patata

Wings of Obsidian said:


> fretted low end, Fretless high end



Million dollar idea.Isn't the Ashula the same thing though?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> Million dollar idea.Isn't the Ashula the same thing though?


 
Yep! It sure is!

OFF-TOPIC: here is video of Linus from Obscura detailing his bass at one point and jamming so you can hear the difference.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Lucas Mann's guitar body was his personal design. I'm not a big fan either, but again, further proof that Matt will take on any specs you can come up with, and build you the guitar, or bass , that the customer wants, not limiting himself to what he likes doing. Personally, I'm not a big fan of V basses, they just look goofy and awkward to me. But hell, if you can rip it up, you could be playing one of those cheap, obnoxious dean neon basses or a custom V and I'd still give you mad props!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

First build for my good buddy John Kiernan is done. Someone please post a picture of it since I don't know how to.


----------



## Larrikin666

Wings of Obsidian said:


> First build for my good buddy John Kiernan is done. Someone please post a picture of it since I don't know how to.



Here ya go


----------



## jonajon91

Hopefully get a few more pics later on. Mabey a full spec list. 
Also, if you don't already, follow on facebook. Thats where he updates and posts first.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Thanks mates! ^^^


----------



## patata

Something red is lurking


----------



## AwDeOh

Okay.. so I'm not real keen on that last V, the Gwenllian, but the first three are excellent. I could see myself playing something combining the edges of the V1 with the off-set Rhodes style of the Shard.


----------



## jonajon91

patata said:


> Something red is lurking



Your pickups?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Your pickups?


 
Nope. The second build for John Kiernan.


----------



## patata

jonajon91 said:


> Your pickups?



You'll see.


----------



## jonajon91

They keep getting pointier


----------



## patata

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Nope. The second build for John Kiernan.



Nope.


----------



## jonajon91

HEADSTOCKS!




Personally, if I was going to get an etherial. I would have to get the veil headstock or some variation, though the scartha, MOR or headless could be cool.

---edit---

Just noticed that two of the headstocks are called MOR. I meant the top one.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

^ I got the original Mor (top one) headstock on my build.


----------



## patata

Veil appears to be the most common,althought Veil 2 reversed is 2x sexier.


----------



## MetalBuddah

I want that H2 but reversed


----------



## patata

MetalBuddah said:


> I want that H2 but reversed



That would be huge as tits


----------



## Hollowway

I wish he had a bigger selection of body styles and HS styles.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Hollowway said:


> I wish he had a bigger selection of body styles and HS styles.



Sarcasm?


----------



## jonajon91

Hollowway said:


> I wish he had a bigger selection of body styles and HS styles.



Scroll back a few pages. There are 30+


----------



## Hollowway

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Sarcasm?



Si, senor. Mucho.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Lucas Mann's custom is now officially done!

Full specs coming soon!

As for now, enjoy the teaser!


----------



## NaYoN

jonajon91 said:


> Scroll back a few pages. There are 30+



And those are only the standardized models. If you want something more outside the box, he will literally do anything you ask.


----------



## jonajon91

Well I have been away for a while and I usually post on here everything from the facebook page. I guess I have some catching up to do 

First up, progress on the Lucas Manns guitar


> Finally done with all the patterns on Lucas Mann's guitar @r, I think there is a good 30 hours in just cutting the patterns :S Should be making steady progress from now.












Guitar is now complete














Some new mockups for Circle of Contempt


> Final guitar design for Ville of CIRCLE OF CONTEMPT
> As the build proceeds we&#8217;ll reveal some of the features and upon completion a full spec page.
> 
> Body Artwork Collaboration - With thanks to Chris Fullam and Grif Carroll






Personally, I think this looked like the most badass guitar in history until I noticed that they were skulls, but still badass! Not too sure about the inlay either.


> Final guitar design for Risto of CIRCLE OF CONTEMPT
> As the build proceeds we&#8217;ll reveal some of the features and upon completion a full spec page.
> There are some subtle details that will be revealed








Some Misc inlay cutting


> Almost complete fretbord pattern, with another I'm about to start. About 30 hours I think in this pattern alone. Handmade... Y U take so long. xD






small pic for no reason



> Just a little explanation of the body profile "Berhn Mor"








I think that second sitting position looks great!


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

NaYoN said:


> And those are only the standardized models. If you want something more outside the box, he will literally do anything you ask.



Literally anything. The man aims to please, and he nails it every time




jonajon91 said:


> Some Misc inlay cutting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> small pic for no reason



The board on top is my bass  I'll have more pics in the build thread


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Almost ready to get mine underway. Me and Matt are just waiting for his current load to lighten up. Me and CaptainLuckeyBeard have already discussed each others build with each other. We know dis shit!


----------



## Hollowway

That guitar of Lucas Mann's is awesome!  If I get a close up look at those inlays and they're as good as they look from here I want to get one. I'll admit that I think a lot fo the stuff Matt has done is a little too sloppy for me, but DANG he's pushing the envelope. And I fully support that. 

EDIT: I hate you guys. Hate you, hate you, hate you! I just sent an email to Matt asking how much a 9 string Lucas Mann hardtail would be. Damn you all!  I seriously need to stop buying guitars.


----------



## jkiernanguitar

:I got the Berhn Mor made from Etherial, here's a video with it so you all can hear it and all! I'll have another video with it soon and another tone test.


----------



## sezna

How does one even inlay like that?!?!!


----------



## jkiernanguitar

sezna said:


> How does one even inlay like that?!?!!



I'm telling you now, I was incredibly surprised when it was in my hands and I saw how it was. It's incredibly expert


----------



## jonajon91

I used to update this thread with almost everything he did. I feel like I have been slacking so here is a bit of a slideshow for ya!

















(note with this one, The white base paint glows)




^ it also looks like his inlay work is improving even more, If you compare this side dot/block with some of his older side blocks.


----------



## Basti

My god I love Etherial. Whatever happened to the 16 string?


----------



## jonajon91

He seems to keep things pretty close to his chest until they are done or nearly done. I guess we have to just wait and see.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

jonajon91 said:


> He seems to keep things pretty close to his chest until they are done or nearly done. I guess we have to just wait and see.



Unless its your build he won't really say much hahah I have gotten to discuss some ridiculous new prototypes he wants to develop but I really can't say anything about those  I post up everything I get on my build thread, but that's about as much as I get lol


----------



## capoeiraesp

Glad to see Etherial's QC is improving. I was contacted by an owner of one of his guitars and well, let's just say there were a lot more issues present than could be seen in pictures. This was a build from 2012.


----------



## jkiernanguitar

capoeiraesp said:


> Glad to see Etherial's QC is improving. I was contacted by an owner of one of his guitars and well, let's just say there were a lot more issues present than could be seen in pictures. This was a build from 2012.



I had heard of those issues in the past, but any concerns I've had with mine have been addressed by Matt. His QC is great for sure. Again, the only concern for anyone is ordering a guitar from another part of the world to their part of the world. The QC can be a bit tricky at that point, but Matt's definitely doing great things with these builds!


----------



## jkiernanguitar

Here's a gear review I did for my Berhn Mor Custom, with tone tests and everything!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Glad to see Etherial's QC is improving. I was contacted by an owner of one of his guitars and well, let's just say there were a lot more issues present than could be seen in pictures. This was a build from 2012.



But it must be known that there were MAJOR problems with the white Sakura build (pictured above), there were problems with the 9-string EndurNeck build, there was a problem with Chris Storey's build, and now this morning Lucas Mann publicly posted on his Facebook (in a "nice way") that there were problems with his build.

I understand where John Kiernan is coming from being an endorsed artists and wanting to support your brand/endorser...however...something really has to be said about this.

And yet another Etherial is chalked up on the "winners" board... -.-'


----------



## jkiernanguitar

Wings of Obsidian said:


> But it must be known that there were MAJOR problems with the white Sakura build (pictured above), there were problems with the 9-string EndurNeck build, there was a problem with Chris Storey's build, and now this morning Lucas Mann publicly posted on his Facebook (in a "nice way") that there were problems with his build.
> 
> I understand where John Kiernan is coming from being an endorsed artists and wanting to support your brand/endorser...however...something really has to be said about this.
> 
> And yet another Etherial is chalked up on the "winners" board... -.-'



Here's what I'll say: In the event that the other builds might have had issues, mine came with none. It's not even to be supportive to the brand, but mine had no quality issues. So to be fair, mine was good, for sure. I'm not denying that there might have been issues in the past, but as far as I know Matt can help ya out with anything, really.


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> But it must be known that there were MAJOR problems with the white Sakura build (pictured above), there were problems with the 9-string EndurNeck build, there was a problem with Chris Storey's build, and now this morning Lucas Mann publicly posted on his Facebook (in a "nice way") that there were problems with his build.
> 
> I understand where John Kiernan is coming from being an endorsed artists and wanting to support your brand/endorser...however...something really has to be said about this.
> 
> And yet another Etherial is chalked up on the "winners" board... -.-'



I don't think Chris Storey's was a build issue. He just had a regular guitar problem, from what I can tell. And he uses his a lot, both for recording and teaching, so I don't think that's an issue.

As for the guitars with actual problems, Matt works with people to figure problems out immediately.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> As for the guitars with actual problems, Matt works with people to figure problems out immediately.



This I absolutely must concur with 100%. ^^^


----------



## capoeiraesp

Not to be horrible, but why are these guitars even leaving the shop with problems?

Wings of Obsidian, can you expand on the issues with the other builds you mentioned please?
Nayon, what is a regular guitar problem?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Not to be horrible, but why are these guitars even leaving the shop with problems?
> 
> Wings of Obsidian, can you expand on the issues with the other builds you mentioned please?
> Nayon, what is a regular guitar problem?



First and foremost, YES, Matt had problems and flaws with his older builds, but he has gotten better a bit. So now you ask why I am defending him, right?...

See here is the thing, I got an Etherial in the works. (Designed it almost a year ago with Matt. Monetary problems incurred by college and stuff have slowed my advance on obtaining my said Etherial.) So I am not going to bash him. But I must say, perhaps, this will shed some light as to why I have had second thoughts and held back and waited before getting my build...

The problem with Storey's axe was actually that the Graphtech saddles in the bridge for the piezo system wouldn't function properly, yet they still left the factory. Nothing to do with Matt's craftsmanship. I had another friend who also was a victim to this. (I have also heard that the carbon fiber on Storey's axe, specifically the headstock, had some flaws. Yet I see none. I do not even see a flaw in the gel coat in the headstock...)

As for the EndurNeck 9-string, the owner would prefer that remained under wraps and classified, but to air the dirty laundry, it was a few playability issues.

With Lucas Mann's build, all I know is that it was severely delayed. However, Lucas did receive the guitar, but his Facebook status this morning explicitly said that there were flaws all around and the guitar was sent back for "redevelopment" meaning that his design ideas did not work, were not playable, or the guitar was just completely butchered. Needless to say, Lucas was just putting things "nicely". A flaw in the finish or hardware would be one thing, but apparently he said the whole guitar needed this "redevelopment". (And I must agree.....how many of you liked that body shape? ) If any of you remember awhile back, I called that there would be something wrong with this guitar, and it looks like I was right. Soooo....who's gonna buy me lunch? Haha.

With the white Sakura build, there were many flaws including: 
The side markers not being cut right.
There were sharp fret edges.
There was hair and dirt under the clear coat (quite obvious on an all-white guitar).
The input jack wasn't recessed right and was completely off-center in the little recessed hole.
There is some kind of paint-filler underneath the nut and under the first two frets. (Looks like Matt cut the headstock in too high or chipped away part of the flat area of the neck where you glue the fretboard onto. And to try to cover it up, he put this paint-filler under the nut and first two frets of the fretboard to fill in some space).
There are some basic flaws in the silvery carbon fiber on the back of the guitar and back of the headstock. (Yet all the fancy inlays and fancy glow-shit seems fine.)
And lastly, the guitar arrived perfectly wrapped and tucked in its case with this...





Again, I am not bashing Matt or his work. I have been a fan for a long time and I "was" excited for my build, but after seeing all this, while he has improved, I still expected more, and it is f-ing heart-wrenching, which is why I have held off on paying and getting my build underway. 

The fact is, we as players are paying hefty sums of our hard-earned money, and can we please expect a little perfection? (Or at least no flaws?) - Also, the fact is that I can get an off-the-shelf production guitar, even a piece of shit at Guitar Center....and it'll have ZERO flaws. This drastically throws things into perspective because production guitars are made in big factories with teams (large teams) of multiple people working on different aspects of the guitar and handling it. This leaves a larger margin for error or for something to go unnoticed because someone can "mess up" but try to hide or cover it... More hands touching it = more room for something to go wrong. However, Matt is ONE GUY who controls EVERYTHING. He is the only one who touches the guitars. So he should take his time and the should be no flaws. Yet there are........ This means he is just careless and inconsiderate, hoping that his clientele won't notice. That is the heart-wrenching thing for me.


----------



## jonajon91

While I could input to this a hell of a lot more with paragraph after paragraph. I will remind everyone that these guitars are really cheap for fancy (out there) custom guitars. I know this is no excuse for simple things, but its definitely worth noting.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> While I could input to this a hell of a lot more with paragraph after paragraph. I will remind everyone that these guitars are really cheap for fancy (out there) custom guitars. I know this is no excuse for simple things, but its definitely worth noting.



No custom is cheap. -.-'

That Ibanez you got at Guitar Center and have sitting in its case in your closet is cheap...


----------



## capoeiraesp

Extensive flaws in a custom instrument are never excusable. 
Wings, your overview is much like another Etherial customer spoke to me about ie to the naked eye and average 1024x728 pic it looks great! But when you get in closer and see not only flaws but neck angles, bridge placements, installation of hardware etc. being incorrectly done, then you've got big issues. 

JKiernan, can you give us some nice high res pics of yours please?

Is there a thread for the Sakura?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Extensive flaws in a custom instrument are never excusable.
> Wings, your overview is much like another Etherial customer spoke to me about ie to the naked eye and average 1024x728 pic it looks great! But when you get in closer and see not only flaws but neck angles, bridge placements, installation of hardware etc. being incorrectly done, then you've got big issues.
> 
> JKiernan, can you give us some nice high res pics of yours please?
> 
> Is there a thread for the Sakura?



PM me the other customer.

And no, there is no build for the Sakura. The owner isn't a dweeb like us and isn't on here.


----------



## capoeiraesp

He contacted me on FB. I can see if he'll want to chat.

Where did you see/hear about the issues on the Sakura?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> He contacted me on FB. I can see if he'll want to chat.
> 
> Where did you see/hear about the issues on the Sakura?



I personally know the owner. (The owner also let some random moronic friend of his go on a massive rant about it on the Extended Range Guitarists and Bassist page on Facebook. However, that friend of his really didn't have justifiable pictures for some of his claims about flaws in the guitar. The few I mentioned, there IS justifiable proof in the existence of those said flaws.)


----------



## capoeiraesp

Didn't he also have a mini version made?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Didn't he also have a mini version made?



No, that was the Shibito 10-string....that you are thinking of. I am talking about the all-white Sakura 8-string..... (Please refer to my picture on the previous page. It irks me when people don't clearly read. -.-')


----------



## Necris

So a ton of "Signature" Models, shoddy workmanship, finish flaws, attempting to hide mistakes rather than fix them, guitars leaving the shop untested (seriously, how else does a non-working piezo system escape the shop unnoticed and make it out to a players hands?) and people citing the comparatively low price of the product as an excuse for these flaws? 

Sounds like a winning company to me.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Wings, chill mate. It was just a question. I knew which guitar you were talking about but I thought this was the one that had a mini made of it too.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necris said:


> So a ton of "Signature" Models, shoddy workmanship, finish flaws, attempting to hide mistakes rather than fix them, guitars leaving the shop untested (seriously, how else does a non-working piezo system escape the shop unnoticed and make it out to a players hands?) and people citing the comparatively low price of the product as an excuse for these flaws?
> 
> Sounds like a winning company to me.



Speaking of signatures....what I don't get is that Matt endorses defunct artists (like Seroxis) and endorses artists who haven't done jackshit (like Blake Allard), and he even endorses artists who don't use his products (like Ms. Sarah Longfield)! Yet he openly (on Facebook in public) refused me endorsement. (Take into account that I am going on the road in a few weeks for the live performance aspect, and I have two simultaneous EPs dropping in the next few months so the music and work ethic IS THERE. Compare that against my examples.) This I honestly do not understand. (On the flipside, for your consideration, I DO understand endorsing like Chris Storey and Lucas Mann and Circle of Contempt....because they are famous! So, he racks up a nice roster of well-known artists in a short time, sounding like Legator Guitars anyone?...)


----------



## ECGuitars

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Speaking of signatures....what I don't get is that Matt endorses defunct artists (like Seroxis) and endorses artists who haven't done jackshit (like Blake Allard), and he even endorses artists who don't use his products (like Ms. Sarah Longfield)! Yet he openly (on Facebook in public) refused me endorsement. (Take into account that I am going on the road in a few weeks for the live performance aspect, and I have two simultaneous EPs dropping in the next few months so the music and work ethic IS THERE. Compare that against my examples.) This I honestly do not understand. (On the flipside, for your consideration, I DO understand endorsing like Chris Storey and Lucas Mann and Circle of Contempt....because they are famous! So, he racks up a nice roster of well-known artists in a short time, sounding like Legator Guitars anyone?...)


 
Same thing happened with Invictus, throw together a shoddy guitar, take some fancy/well placed photographs, get some high profile endorsers (Lee from Born of Osiris) and then ride the hype wave while continuing to put out less than stellar guitars. It seems to be quite a common thing now a days, which is a damn shame for reputable builders because people become a lot more weary of going down the custom route..


----------



## ormsby guitars

ECGuitars said:


> Same thing happened with Invictus, throw together a shoddy guitar, take some fancy/well placed photographs, get some high profile endorsers (Lee from Born of Osiris) and then ride the hype wave while continuing to put out less than stellar guitars. It seems to be quite a common thing now a days, which is a damn shame for reputable builders because people become a lot more weary of going down the custom route..



This.


----------



## jonajon91

The problem is that a lot of people are expecting VIK/strandberg/boden quality. I mean completely flawless. I know that a lot of these guitars are far from this, but he has at least twice as many guitars that we never hear about because they don't have these flaws. NAYONs guitar is great, the 10 string guitar is great and they just seem to be improving. I think there is hope still despite the similarities with some of the other failing companies.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> The problem is that a lot of people are expecting VIK/strandberg/boden quality. I mean completely flawless. I know that a lot of these guitars are far from this, but he has at least twice as many guitars that we never hear about because they don't have these flaws. NAYONs guitar is great, the 10 string guitar is great and they just seem to be improving. I think there is hope still despite the similarities with some of the other failing companies.


 
*cough cough* 10-string had problems *cough*


----------



## ormsby guitars

jonajon91 said:


> The problem is that a lot of people are expecting VIK/strandberg/boden quality. I mean completely flawless. I know that a lot of these guitars are far from this, but he has at least twice as many guitars that we never hear about because they don't have these flaws. NAYONs guitar is great, the 10 string guitar is great and they just seem to be improving. I think there is hope still despite the similarities with some of the other failing companies.




I posted this elsewhere on the same subject the other day. It seems fitting here too:

The problem with this business, is there are too many people (both players, and luthiers) that seem to accept second best. It doesnt need to be like that. Dream guitars should be exactly that, dream guitars. You dont buy a Ferarri and accept chips in the paintwork. You wouldnt accept a leaky boat. Builders dont make excuses for why the house they just built have doors that dont open properly.

There is a need for cheaper instruments, and there will always be people wanting them. That's a different market altogether. But if a chinese instrument can be virtually faultless (lets face it, for the price you get a LOT) then there isnt a need for "highly skilled" luthiers to be cutting corners.

Instruments are personal things. They enter our personal space. We bond with them. We get attached to them. They replace our girlfriends at times. We lust after them. We fall in love. They become the one non living thing in our lives that can change our mood, that inspire us to be creative. Your dream guitar SHOULD be something you can just sit there and look at, in wonder. Or, play the arse off it! They are our outlet of frustration, and our source of happiness.

Luthiery is one of the most difficult careers. It's demanding mentally, and physically. It requires a very high skill set, over a wide range of roles. Everything has to come together, perfectly, to achieve the end goal. Every process has to be refined, and adapted, to chase the goal of perfection. Those that dont continually, and ruthlessly, chase that perfection, are simply cheating themselves, and their clients. You will NEVER achieve perfection, without the right mindset. But damn, once you start realising that those tiny tiny things you are trying to perfect, dont even get noticed by others even after pointing them out, that's when you can begin to accept you are getting close. There isnt room for "almost there". It has to be PERFECT. It's someones dream. They've invested heavily in time and money. 

Im always chasing it. Vik chases it. Blackmachine chases it. Thorn chases it. PRS chases it. Fender custom shop chase it. Daemoness chases it. Suhr, Sudowsky, Cilia, the list goes on. Thats how it should be. As luthiers, I say we should ALL be like this. If you enter a highly technical field, you can't make excuses. You have to 'bring it'. Or practice more.


----------



## jonajon91

I think this thread is getting a little heated so if we all step back to avoid neg rep/thread lock/ban.

To be honest anyone that has done enough research and is getting a custom with etherial should know what to expect by now and especially for the price they pay. They are the ONLY company that I know that will build you anything, 9 string, carbon fiber, fanned fret, piezzo, enurneck, really exotic wood, glow in the dark body work, body inlays. The list goes on and I know that behind what they are showing to people they (he) are (is) working on some really innovative stuff like the 16 string (dual course) bridge we saw a picture of.


----------



## thrsher

im expecting my etherial build by years end. will give a full review upon recieving. my build is being held up waiting on an ABM currently doing a short run of 8 string TOM bridges


----------



## ECGuitars

ormsby guitars said:


> I posted this elsewhere on the same subject the other day. It seems fitting here too:
> 
> The problem with this business, is there are too many people (both players, and luthiers) that seem to accept second best. It doesnt need to be like that. Dream guitars should be exactly that, dream guitars. You dont buy a Ferarri and accept chips in the paintwork. You wouldnt accept a leaky boat. Builders dont make excuses for why the house they just built have doors that dont open properly.
> 
> There is a need for cheaper instruments, and there will always be people wanting them. That's a different market altogether. But if a chinese instrument can be virtually faultless (lets face it, for the price you get a LOT) then there isnt a need for "highly skilled" luthiers to be cutting corners.
> 
> Instruments are personal things. They enter our personal space. We bond with them. We get attached to them. They replace our girlfriends at times. We lust after them. We fall in love. They become the one non living thing in our lives that can change our mood, that inspire us to be creative. Your dream guitar SHOULD be something you can just sit there and look at, in wonder. Or, play the arse off it! They are our outlet of frustration, and our source of happiness.
> 
> Luthiery is one of the most difficult careers. It's demanding mentally, and physically. It requires a very high skill set, over a wide range of roles. Everything has to come together, perfectly, to achieve the end goal. Every process has to be refined, and adapted, to chase the goal of perfection. Those that dont continually, and ruthlessly, chase that perfection, are simply cheating themselves, and their clients. You will NEVER achieve perfection, without the right mindset. But damn, once you start realising that those tiny tiny things you are trying to perfect, dont even get noticed by others even after pointing them out, that's when you can begin to accept you are getting close. There isnt room for "almost there". It has to be PERFECT. It's someones dream. They've invested heavily in time and money.
> 
> Im always chasing it. Vik chases it. Blackmachine chases it. Thorn chases it. PRS chases it. Fender custom shop chase it. Daemoness chases it. Suhr, Sudowsky, Cilia, the list goes on. Thats how it should be. As luthiers, I say we should ALL be like this. If you enter a highly technical field, you can't make excuses. You have to 'bring it'. Or practice more.




I couldn't agree with this anymore, I personally have been building for about 6-7 years and I'm not at the point where I would be comfortable to sell an instrument to another person. To an extent, you should not be honing your craft and getting the "practice" instruments out of the way.. I'm of the mindset of that one poorly built instrument can ruin your reputation. I'm always chasing perfection, never going to get it, like Perry here said but once I get to close enough to that point THEN I/whomever should begin searching for customers.


----------



## patata

Sarah and the others are famous on the internet.
That's what happens to Fransesco as well,he is a BKP and fretwrap endorser and he has like 1-2 minutes of his music online.Same thing with the Asian kiddo,can't remember name.


----------



## capoeiraesp

jonajon91 said:


> I think this thread is getting a little heated so if we all step back to avoid neg rep/thread lock/ban.
> 
> To be honest anyone that has done enough research and is getting a custom with etherial should know what to expect by now and especially for the price they pay. They are the ONLY company that I know that will build you anything, 9 string, carbon fiber, fanned fret, piezzo, enurneck, really exotic wood, glow in the dark body work, body inlays. The list goes on and I know that behind what they are showing to people they (he) are (is) working on some really innovative stuff like the 16 string (dual course) bridge we saw a picture of.



The poster above yours will do anything you want. Just sayin'


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

My bass should be done here in the next few weeks. Expect a full and extensive review, I'm trying to get my hands on a better audio interface to get some tone samples recorded as well, but its tough since I don't have much cash at the moment to get one lol either way. I love having worked with Matt, he's a great guy, I get a little frustrated at times but honestly, I think within the next few years he's going to have a ridiculous wait list just like ViK or Deamoness. Even with my bass, since its a single piece of bluegum, it got a small torsional twist along the lower horn causing it to come up a bit. He brought it immediately to my attention and remedied the issue the next day. He's obviously not without fault, but you have to give him credit to the fact that he doesn't deny the issues, he acknowledges them and gets them fixed.


----------



## ormsby guitars

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> My bass should be done here in the next few weeks. Expect a full and extensive review, I'm trying to get my hands on a better audio interface to get some tone samples recorded as well, but its tough since I don't have much cash at the moment to get one lol either way. I love having worked with Matt, he's a great guy, I get a little frustrated at times but honestly, I think within the next few years he's going to have a ridiculous wait list just like ViK or Deamoness. Even with my bass, since its a single piece of bluegum, it got a small torsional twist along the lower horn causing it to come up a bit. He brought it immediately to my attention and remedied the issue the next day. He's obviously not without fault, but you have to give him credit to the fact that he doesn't deny the issues, he acknowledges them and gets them fixed.



This is the point. For starters, no one, NO ONE, uses blue gum (and Jarrah is considered a sin) for guitar making. There is a reason for that. Australia has some wonderful tonewoods, but like the rest of the world, only a small handful of local timbers are suitable (tonally, workable, stable, weight, defect prone, etc). 

The fact it moved, means it isn't dry. Read that once more. It WILL dry, and move more, well after your bass is finished. These are fundamental faults. Sure he has been up front. That's great. But he is being up front about something that is structurally not fit for use.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ECGuitars said:


> Same thing happened with Invictus, throw together a shoddy guitar, take some fancy/well placed photographs, get some high profile endorsers (Lee from Born of Osiris) and then ride the hype wave while continuing to put out less than stellar guitars.



They had an excellent marketing strategy but they forgot the part about building the actual guitars for the endorsers.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

ormsby guitars said:


> This is the point. For starters, no one, NO ONE, uses blue gum (and Jarrah is considered a sin) for guitar making. There is a reason for that. Australia has some wonderful tonewoods, but like the rest of the world, only a small handful of local timbers are suitable (tonally, workable, stable, weight, defect prone, etc).
> 
> The fact it moved, means it isn't dry. Read that once more. It WILL dry, and move more, well after your bass is finished. These are fundamental faults. Sure he has been up front. That's great. But he is being up front about something that is structurally not fit for use.



Yeahhh....that has been slowly dawning on me for the last few days...a lot of guitars came from the same slab and as far as I'm aware, they're fine. Isn't there a meter to check these things? I remember reading somewhere (I wanna say it was Warwick) that 5-10% moisture was the optimum range. Not so dry that it'll crack, but not so much moisture that it'll move significantly? Or am I just crazy? lol

Edit: Why is jarrah a sin, too. Just curious. I don't know much about it

Edit (the sequel): The bluegum is kiln dried if that makes any difference?


----------



## ormsby guitars

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Yeahhh....that has been slowly dawning on me for the last few days...a lot of guitars came from the same slab and as far as I'm aware, they're fine. Isn't there a meter to check these things? I remember reading somewhere (I wanna say it was Warwick) that 5-10% moisture was the optimum range. Not so dry that it'll crack, but not so much moisture that it'll move significantly? Or am I just crazy? lol



Yes, there is a little electronic device called a moisture meter. 12% is what the industry (woodworking) calls dry... or "furniture grade". This is what timber mills dry to, in a Kiln enviroment (basically a big room like oven, which over a period of 30 or so days, heats up to dry the timber. You'll see claims of some people drying timber to 2-4%, but that starts to degrade the strength, and to be honest, is mostly bullshit. Ultimately, 6-8% is stable, dry enough that is won't be effected by humidity, etc. 

To dry without a kiln, you need to allow a minimum of 12 months for every year of thickness. EG: 2" body requires 2 years to dry. This is in a dry enviroment, not a damp enviroment, snow, etc. Personally, I allow a minimum of six months for any timber that is already dry, to settle, and "even out". Good suppliers can quote moisture content on request.

If something is dried TOO quickly, then you get what is called case hardening. This is when the timber closer to the outside is dry, but the insides are still "wet". As soon as you cut into that piece (lets say, cut a body from a blank), it will twist, move, split, or warp.

For the most efficient drying, but also the slowest, it is best to extract the moisture via the face and side of boards, NOT the end grain. Sealing the end grain with paint, latex, wax, etc stops the moisture coming from the end grain. As moisture is a lot more easily expelled via end grain, the ends of a board shrink, and split. Splits can be microscopic, and have disasterous effects later.

Moisture content being too high is ok (12%), IF the item isnt moved between locations of different temperate and humidity. EG: build a guitar out of 12% moisture timber, and it stays in the one location, it will be less prone to movement than if that instrument was shipped to some other location with a different climate. A prime example of this is when you see fret ends sticking out. This means the fretboard waasnt dried properly, and when it does, it shrinks. Timber shrinks more ACROSS the grain, than it does length ways. Frets dont shrink... Ultimately though, it would be silly to 'build to suit one location', and even more silly to build with 12% moisture...


----------



## ormsby guitars

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Edit: Why is jarrah a sin, too. Just curious. I don't know much about it



It simply doesnt resonate well at the required frenquencies that promote good tone. A Jarrah guitar, still sounds like a guitar. Same as a guitar built from particle board will still sound like a guitar. But it's the nuances of tone that make a huge difference, regardless of pickup types or strengths, to how alive and "awesome" a guitar is.

Back when I started out, with stuff all work to actually do, I made a series of "neck and body" blanks that could be hooked up to a signal generator, or have strings attached. I had a university test this combinations of timbers, with and without lacquer (and different types of lacquer), what effect string break angles had on tone, what happens when thinner pieces are used, laminations, etc etc etc etc etc etc. I wanted Jarrah to work, simply because here on the west coast, it is native and in abundance. On paper, it looked like it would be good. In practise it was one of the worst we tested. One day I might publish all this data.

There are a number (small) of guitar makers promoting Jarrah within Australia. I can catagorically say that every one of them does so because it creates interest in their work, as Aussies like to search for Aussie timber guitars. Finding one that will accept that order, is a different thing altogether.

Funnily enough, the reasonance works beautifully for mandolins, and also drums (snares in particular). Check out Brady Drums for some absolutely STUNNING examples of this.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

ormsby guitars said:


> It simply doesnt resonate well at the required frenquencies that promote good tone. A Jarrah guitar, still sounds like a guitar. Same as a guitar built from particle board will still sound like a guitar. But it's the nuances of tone that make a huge difference, regardless of pickup types or strengths, to how alive and "awesome" a guitar is.
> 
> Back when I started out, with stuff all work to actually do, I made a series of "neck and body" blanks that could be hooked up to a signal generator, or have strings attached. I had a university test this combinations of timbers, with and without lacquer (and different types of lacquer), what effect string break angles had on tone, what happens when thinner pieces are used, laminations, etc etc etc etc etc etc. I wanted Jarrah to work, simply because here on the west coast, it is native and in abundance. On paper, it looked like it would be good. In practise it was one of the worst we tested. One day I might publish all this data.
> 
> There are a number (small) of guitar makers promoting Jarrah within Australia. I can catagorically say that every one of them does so because it creates interest in their work, as Aussies like to search for Aussie timber guitars. Finding one that will accept that order, is a different thing altogether.
> 
> Funnily enough, the reasonance works beautifully for mandolins, and also drums (snares in particular). Check out Brady Drums for some absolutely STUNNING examples of this.



So how do you think it would respond as a fretboard? Considering like 40% of it has been carved out for the inlay lol

Also, I think I'm speaking for a lot of people around here when I say I'd love to see that research! I'm sure it would end a lot of the tone woods debate and make deciding on combinations much easier. Thats wicked cool you've done that though!


----------



## jonajon91

I would also like to see this research.
Also it is a shame about jarrah, such a pretty wood.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Look, when it comes down to it, the neck wood is the primary factor you need for shaping tone. Body, then fretboard. Like I said, you could make a guitar from particle board, and it will still sound like a guitar. It's the nuances I chase after. That cork sniffing last 2% that makes a guitar something out of this world. Sometimes though, it just has to look ....ing cool!

Carbon fibre is one of the non "natural" items that doesnt really deaden the reasonance of a guitar, like plastics, resins, etc. It's weird, because taking the carbon fibre out of carbon fibre, just leaving the resin, has a detrimental effect on the tone.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

ormsby guitars said:


> Look, when it comes down to it, the neck wood is the primary factor you need for shaping tone. Body, then fretboard. Like I said, you could make a guitar from particle board, and it will still sound like a guitar. It's the nuances I chase after. That cork sniffing last 2% that makes a guitar something out of this world. Sometimes though, it just has to look ....ing cool!
> 
> Carbon fibre is one of the non "natural" items that doesnt really deaden the reasonance of a guitar, like plastics, resins, etc. It's weird, because taking the carbon fibre out of carbon fibre, just leaving the resin, has a detrimental effect on the tone.



Weird...lol well thank you for all the information! It's definitely been a great help actually. I might have to come bug you to build me a bass in the future XD


----------



## Metal_Webb

ormsby guitars said:


> Carbon fibre is one of the non "natural" items that doesnt really deaden the reasonance of a guitar, like plastics, resins, etc. It's weird, because taking the carbon fibre out of carbon fibre, just leaving the resin, has a detrimental effect on the tone.



I'm no material scientist, but it's probably due to CF finishes being a composite material. A similar example would be reinforced concrete. If you pour a slab of concrete with no reo bar in it, it'll shatter the moment you place any kind of bending load on it. Put in reo bar and the concrete can then handle deformation stresses much better.
I'm just guessing that the carbon fibres act like the reo bar do in concrete. They probably let the otherwise rigid and mostly non flexible resin be able to resonate, etc etc.


----------



## abandonist

I stopped talking to Matt when he got all high and mighty about being a "custom design firm." It reeked of pompousness.


----------



## NaYoN

abandonist said:


> I stopped talking to Matt when he got all high and mighty about being a "custom design firm." It reeked of pompousness.



Um, what? Is it not a custom design firm? He does custom design, and he is a business, aka a firm, so...?


----------



## abandonist

Without posting the actual email exchange, it was pretty over the top and managed to turn me off the whole thing when he was prepared to give me a very nice price on a guitar. I have no want to do business with self-important assholes.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

abandonist said:


> Without posting the actual email exchange, it was pretty over the top and managed to turn me off the whole thing when he was prepared to give me a very nice price on a guitar. I have no want to do business with self-important assholes.



You might have to give more than that, I have no idea what you'd be talking about? He's never been anything short of accommodating and humble? The one time I've seen him even slightly off was when a few people hit him up to design guitars all the way through then they bailed on him and took said designs to other people? Which in all actuality is a perfectly legitimate reason to be pissed, but I've never gotten arrogant out of it?


----------



## thrsher

yeah, seems off to me too, my most email exchange with matt as of two days ago, he was really humble about his current state of affairs


----------



## pondman

ECGuitars said:


> I couldn't agree with this anymore, I personally have been building for about 6-7 years and I'm not at the point where I would be comfortable to sell an instrument to another person. To an extent, you should not be honing your craft and getting the "practice" instruments out of the way.. I'm of the mindset of that one poorly built instrument can ruin your reputation. I'm always chasing perfection, never going to get it, like Perry here said but once I get to close enough to that point THEN I/whomever should begin searching for customers.



Ditto !!


----------



## abandonist

This was about a year ago. I just searched through my deleted email and they're long gone now.

I'm just one dude. I didn't have a great experience. Maybe I ended up pushing that one button no one else hit. Can't say.


----------



## Hollowway

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> You might have to give more than that, I have no idea what you'd be talking about? He's never been anything short of accommodating and humble? The one time I've seen him even slightly off was when a few people hit him up to design guitars all the way through then they bailed on him and took said designs to other people? Which in all actuality is a perfectly legitimate reason to be pissed, but I've never gotten arrogant out of it?



How come you're talking like a valley girl?


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Hollowway said:


> How come you're talking like a valley girl?



Hahahahah whatchu talkin bout??


----------



## Hollowway

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Hahahahah whatchu talkin bout??



Haha, those question marks at the end of every sentence made it sound like the pitch was going up at the end of every sentence, valley girl style. It was probably one of those thoughts I should have just moved on past, but I typed it out.


----------



## NaYoN

So it seems the reason for Lucas Mann's guitar being reworked wasn't build quality issues but just minor cosmetic stuff and some design changes:


----------



## thrsher

wonder how thats going to work out with the perpendicular fret being at first?


----------



## ormsby guitars

NaYoN said:


> So it seems the reason for Lucas Mann's guitar being reworked wasn't build quality issues but just minor cosmetic stuff and some design changes:



Umm, it says on the side panel, a revised body and headstock. Sure, he can 'plonk' a bit of wood on the body edge and reshape it, but to extend the headstock? For what purpose? Will that require moving the tuners? Why? And then, full carbon wrap (assuming this one has carbon) over all these fix ups, plus a full refinish? How shall he remove the carbon, which is designed to be strong as hell... more than steel (weight for weight) if done correctly, without damaging the neck?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

For someone who does a lot of shredding the large slanted high frets seems a strange change.


----------



## thrsher

i assumed another guitar would be built


----------



## NaYoN

ormsby guitars said:


> Umm, it says on the side panel, a revised body and headstock. Sure, he can 'plonk' a bit of wood on the body edge and reshape it, but to extend the headstock? For what purpose? Will that require moving the tuners? Why? And then, full carbon wrap (assuming this one has carbon) over all these fix ups, plus a full refinish? How shall he remove the carbon, which is designed to be strong as hell... more than steel (weight for weight) if done correctly, without damaging the neck?



He's making a new guitar. Lucas is giving away the prototype as a backer benefit for his crowdfunding campaign for his solo album.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

NaYoN said:


> He's making a new guitar. Lucas is giving away the prototype as a backer benefit for his crowdfunding campaign for his solo album.



I wish I was cool enough to elicit two guitars then give one away...I wonder how that works. If he's just paying for a second one to be built or what...

Either way I actually really do not like his design on this. The headstock is ridiculous and way to small and I really just don't get the body shape.......but what ever, its not my design, its Lucas's so what ever floats his boat then lol.


----------



## NaYoN

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> I wish I was cool enough to elicit two guitars then give one away...I wonder how that works. If he's just paying for a second one to be built or what...
> 
> Either way I actually really do not like his design on this. The headstock is ridiculous and way to small and I really just don't get the body shape.......but what ever, its not my design, its Lucas's so what ever floats his boat then lol.



The perk for the guitar is $3k iirc so he's literally selling it and will probably buy a new one with that money?


----------



## Metal_Webb

So much Haterade being consumed in this thread. Sure, Etherial's had build issues but instantly assuming that's why Mann's getting rid of the first one without knowing the whole story then keep ragging on the company? It's churlish, that's what it is.


Got nothing to do with Etherial, just getting fed up of this board becoming so ....ing toxic about everything.


----------



## Hollowway

Maybe I missed it, but did we ever see photos of the completed Lucas Mann guitar on here? I'd love to check out those designs. I'm not a huge fan of the inlays on the neck, but I love the body inlays.


----------



## NaYoN

Hollowway said:


> Maybe I missed it, but did we ever see photos of the completed Lucas Mann guitar on here? I'd love to check out those designs. I'm not a huge fan of the inlays on the neck, but I love the body inlays.



I literally posted an image with photos of it like 5 posts ago...


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

NaYoN said:


> The perk for the guitar is $3k iirc so he's literally selling it and will probably buy a new one with that money?



That would make sense lol I thought he would auction it off if anything lol you know there would be a good fight over it


----------



## Hollowway

NaYoN said:


> I literally posted an image with photos of it like 5 posts ago...



Yeah, I mean big ass photos, like NGD style. That one is kind of tiny, so I can't see much of the design work.


----------



## jonajon91

No, never in full. Just the odd picture here and there.


----------



## Hollowway

Dang. I love the circles and lines thing, like Noyan's and Lucas's, so I wanted to see the design up close. I wonder why he's not doing the design on the back this time? My guess is that it's too much trouble for something that won't ever really be seen.


----------



## thrsher

Hollowway said:


> Dang. I love the circles and lines thing, like Noyan's and Lucas's, so I wanted to see the design up close. I wonder why he's not doing the design on the back this time? My guess is that it's too much trouble for something that won't ever really be seen.



i dont even think lucas knows what he wants from a custom guitar. i took me serval orders to really truly understand what i look for in a custom guitar


----------



## Helstormau

NaYoN said:


> So it seems the reason for Lucas Mann's guitar being reworked wasn't build quality issues but just minor cosmetic stuff and some design changes:



I can almost guarantee there where flaws in this guitar due to the amount of time Lucas had the guitar. If I'm not mistaken, Lucas only had the guitar for a day or so (not too long anyway). I don't want to sound like a dick or anything, but come on man. I mean yes, there are some changes in the design but that doesn't mean there where no faults on the so called "prototype". The fact that his guitar is now all of a sudden a "prototype" seems off, I mean, just build a good guitar once and there is no need for a prototype. It all seems dodgy as .... to me but hey, thats what I see anyway.


----------



## thrsher

Helstormau said:


> I can almost guarantee there where flaws in this guitar due to the amount of time Lucas had the guitar. If I'm not mistaken, Lucas only had the guitar for a day or so (not too long anyway). I don't want to sound like a dick or anything, but come on man. I mean yes, there are some changes in the design but that doesn't mean there where no faults on the so called "prototype". The fact that his guitar is now all of a sudden a "prototype" seems off, I mean, just build a good guitar once and there is no need for a prototype. It all seems dodgy as .... to me but hey, thats what I see anyway.



i played a show with rings of saturn on friday, i talked to lucas about the build as i have a build with etherial. he said the inlay work, the fretwork, the wood working was all well and good, overall he just wasnt happy with his Aesthetics. just as simple as that. i speculated that he didnt really know what he was looking for out of a custom and our talk confirmed it. he got his build and wanted to make changes to some of the carves and scale length. he wanted the material to glow differently.


----------



## Helstormau

thrsher said:


> i played a show with rings of saturn on friday, i talked to lucas about the build as i have a build with etherial. he said the inlay work, the fretwork, the wood working was all well and good, overall he just wasnt happy with his Aesthetics. just as simple as that. i speculated that he didnt really know what he was looking for out of a custom and our talk confirmed it. he got his build and wanted to make changes to some of the carves and scale length. he wanted the material to glow differently.



You are probably right there mate. For all we know the guitar could have been the best one etherial has ever built (quality wise), but at the same time, he might not want to talk bad about a guitar company that he endorses. I just hope for his sake the guitar in the end is good and not faulty as .... like some of the etherials i have seen.


----------



## jonajon91

>


Will probably look something like this when completed.


----------



## Helstormau

jonajon91 said:


> Something else in the works at the moment. Judging from the holes at the bridge, this will be a 4 string bass or 8 string guitar.



That shape would look beter without the webby things on it, even then its pretty ugly IMO


----------



## MaxOfMetal

thrsher said:


> i played a show with rings of saturn on friday, i talked to lucas about the build as i have a build with etherial. he said the inlay work, the fretwork, the wood working was all well and good, overall he just wasnt happy with his Aesthetics. just as simple as that. i speculated that he didnt really know what he was looking for out of a custom and our talk confirmed it. he got his build and wanted to make changes to some of the carves and scale length. he wanted the material to glow differently.



Were you able to play the guitar in question? See it up close? 

I'd love some real opinions on these instruments, from those without endorsements and have played some great guitars.


----------



## thrsher

MaxOfMetal said:


> Were you able to play the guitar in question? See it up close?
> 
> I'd love some real opinions on these instruments, from those without endorsements and have played some great guitars.



unfortunately not. he did not have it. i was really trying to get as much detail out of him because again i do have a build on order. time will tell when i get mine. 

he didnt come off as caring too much, like i was asking him how he felt the carbon fiber affected the tone, and he had no response. he feels on the sound is coming from the pickups. (fair arguement as some beleive its all in the pickups) i was trying to gauge resonance and sustain and he really didnt respond to that. i asked about fret work and he said it was fine. none of his answers really provided any detail to it. i also asked about scale, the changing the perpendicular fret to first and he is concern was playing chords, which that i can understand cause that was a small gripe i had with fanned frets. and he didn't even know what it was being changed to, he just wanted a longer scale for more tension.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Sounds like he knows exactly what he wants and what to look for in a custom guitar. 

That bass is rather interesting. I wonder what is going to happen when the tuners behind the bridge go in? I can't see the washers fitting very well.


----------



## Helstormau

capoeiraesp said:


> Sounds like he knows exactly what he wants and what to look for in a custom guitar.
> 
> That bass is rather interesting. I wonder what is going to happen when the tuners behind the bridge go in? I can't see the washers fitting very well.



I was thinking the same thing. I don't know if I'm wrong or not, but those holes kinda look off to me, like they are at the wrong angle.


----------



## ormsby guitars

It's not that they are angled... They were drilled in the wrong place, then 'reamed' to lengthen the hole into an oval to make sure the holes actually line up. Rookie mistake. 

Notice the pickup routs? Those bobbins won't line up.


----------



## Helstormau

Honestly, I'm beginning to get pissed off with etherial. I dont get how you can build a guitar for someone that isnt playable, terrible finish quality etc. and call yourself a luthier. This is getting ridiculous. The worst part is that everyone is sticking up for him and saying "well, he is getting better". Getting better is a piss weak excuse for making shoddy guitars. Get your shit right before you make guitars and not waste your customer's hard earned cash on a hunk of shit. Just my  on this situation.


----------



## jonajon91

A few more pictures from the facebook page.


















Circles of contempt


----------



## jonajon91

---edit---

Say what you want about etherial, they make some damn pretty guitars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

[TROLL]

Hey, if the whole guitar thing doesn't work out I'm sure Affliction and Tapout are always looking for new designers.

[/TROLL]


Sorry, I just don't get how these aesthetics are becoming popular.


----------



## Alberto7

^ well, that's just, like, uuhh.. your opinion... man...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Alberto7 said:


> ^ well, that's just, like, uuhh.. your opinion... man...



Probably why I said that "I don't get it" not "these are ugly", I mean, don't get me wrong, I think these *are* ugly, but obviously not everyone does. 

They remind me of tribal tattoos that have been the laughing stock of the tattoo community (at least the majority of it) since the 90's. Though, those are opinions too. 

I guess I kinda want someone to tell me why they like it. Maybe there's something I'm missing. Though, if that first post offended I'm sure this one is doing none better. 

It wasn't too long ago when everyone would jump on Moser or Monson for their wacky shapes (I do like some of those.).


----------



## Alberto7

do not fret Max  I was just quoting The Big Lebowski film there. I use that quote with every excuse I find. I agree most of these are just gaudy*. I do like a lot of the lines on his guitars, but I don't think I'd ever even consider putting those designs in a guitar of mine. I also like the fact that he has the 'balls' to do things that are so out there... kind of. Now, if only the quality of his guitars weren't so questionable...

*EDIT: I'd just like to modify this sentence to "I agree with THE OPINION that most of these are just gaudy." Just making it as clear as day that it's what I think.


----------



## technomancer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Probably why I said that "I don't get it" not "these are ugly", I mean, don't get me wrong, I think these *are* ugly, but obviously not everyone does.
> 
> They remind me of tribal tattoos that have been the laughing stock of the tattoo community (at least the majority of it) since the 90's. Though, those are opinions too.
> 
> I guess I kinda want someone to tell me why they like it. Maybe there's something I'm missing. Though, if that first post offended I'm sure this one is doing none better.
> 
> It wasn't too long ago when everyone would jump on Moser or Monson for their wacky shapes (I do like some of those.).



But duuuuuude they have like lots of strings and are carbon fiber and foam and stuff... they're EXTREEEEEMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE

(I'll apologize in advance for my sarcasm )


----------



## crg123

^  oh you guys. Also lmao Max. Tapout? that's harsh haha


----------



## jonajon91

Its been said before on here that He does what the customers want. I can pull up pictures of at least 2 plain black guitars, but he can do all the other things and thats what people that go to him want.


----------



## abandonist

Does Etherial even lift, bro?


*Just having some fun.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Yay! New headless guitar that's almost impossible to tune ie look at how close those tuners are.


----------



## downburst82

^if they turn what difference does it make? I realise you for some reason are anti-Etherial..but from the picture you cant tell if there is truely any real issue.

Im all for holding builders accountable and everything but this seems to be getting a little silly.... just my


----------



## capoeiraesp

They're rubbing against each other, which means they'll act like a cog ie it will make the tuners next to it move. 

"My new car drives but runs really rough." Would you tolerate that

Edit: for some reason I'm anti-etherial? I have many reasons and examples. 
Mate, just look at the stuff I've pointed out in this thread alone. Why is it ok to spend thousands of dollars and have these kind of mistakes happen?


----------



## downburst82

I see your point, but in this case I would say you cant say for sure that the turners will have issue turning (they do look close but I cant tell if the movent is being restricted)..if they are so close together that they are rubbing then yes thats a pretty stupid mistake, but I just think you might be jumping the gun on this possible issue.

For all the issues you keep pointing out (and im not saying they arent valid) I still havent heard much in the way customers being dissatisfied with there builds and people have spoken only highly of him when it comes to his communication and customer service (as far as I know)

Basically im not saying any builder should get to slide on putting out subpar product to customers and issues should be brought to light..but Etherial seems to be trying to make sure they satisfy there customers and any issue's that have come to light he's been willing to make them right.

I could be off base, I dont know.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I think the picture is detailed enough to make such a conclusion. 

I have literally had a disgruntled customer contact me. The details he provided were nothing short of appaling.


----------



## downburst82

^ see then its those details we need to hear, people need to hear the actual details (pictures?) of problems people have had with their guitars and honest reviews from people that have actually touched them(that are not endorsers)..not hear-say and vauge second hand info.

Just out of curiosity why did the customer contact you? And what was etherials response to the customer about the issues?


ps: basically im still under the impression this guy _*can*_ make a pretty decent cool guitar...and seems to be genuine about trying to please his customers and make things right if mistakes are made. Maybe if I hade all the information you seem to have I would feel differently?


----------



## capoeiraesp

Information I seem to have? C'mon man. I've referred to a lot of photographic examples throughout this thread. 
I'll see if the due who contacted me is ok to come forward.


----------



## downburst82

I rechecked the whole thread, and ya I had seen most of the pictures and issues you pointed out before. Some of the stuff you pointed out is subjective but there are certainly some mistakes that have been made that shouldnt have been,but it seems like it mostly small cosmetic stuff...doesnt make it ok..but doesnt mean he is a "bad" builder.

Now if there are multiple builds out there with issues that seriously affect the playability of the guitar then thats a whole different story and thats what people need to know about.

ps: just wanted to make sure this isnt getting heated or anything..im totally not trying to start anything or argue or specifically defend etherial...just like the discussion and like weighing all the information available.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I'm not sure how many times I can reiterate my perspective. 
I've clearly stated that I respect the guy's openness to unique ideas and doing what many other builders won't. 
That said, there have been far too many issues with these builds that seem to be pushed aside purely because of his lower than average custom shop prices and willingness to work with different materials, more strings or otherwise. This doesn't equal a good builder and definitely not a luthier. 
At the end of the day this isn't a few hundred dollars. It's thousands of people's hard earned dollars. I say this because I have experiences with poor build quality guitars first hand, just like I've experienced great build quality and guidance in building a quality, modern guitar too. 
I'm not here pointing these things out because of some vendetta. Just take a look at the rubbish that has gone down and continues to go down with certain builders highlighted within this forum. We all want value for money, but at want point does value equal degradation or acceptance of sub-par quality? Quality which is below that of your average $500 LTD, epiphone, PRS SE etc.


----------



## downburst82

I certainly get what your saying and dont worry I wont be ordering an etherial any time soon.. but I am a fan of alot of what he trying to do and he seems like he is a pretty talented designer and has lots of potential to be a amazing builder (he really is allready there is alot of ways). 


I could see myself possibly considering etherial in a couple of years if there has started to be a steady stream of possitive "real" reviews and they have established there quality control a little more firmly.

I dont really get an "invictus" or "brj" vibe from the company though...time will tell


----------



## canuck brian

capoeiraesp said:


> Yay! New headless guitar that's almost impossible to tune ie look at how close those tuners are.



Steinbergers and Strandbergs are about the same and I've had zero issues using either.


----------



## jonajon91

"A little something I have brewing... "


----------



## jonajon91

Just posted this as well.





Must add that this ^ is not for anyone. It is a prototype to try/practice new ideas. Looks pretty cool to me.


----------



## Konfyouzd

That's freakin' sick!


----------



## Helstormau

I seriously don't get why all you guys keep backing etherial. I mean, how many of you guys actually own an etherial (with the exception of noyan) and can say without a doubt they are of exceptional quality? How many of you guys own a custom guitar worth around $3000-$4000 aud with flaws like some of the etherials in this thread straight out of the box? If I had ordered a custom guitar worth that much and it was sent to me with uneven frets, improperly drilled bridge pieces, not even remotely set up, out of whack side dots and had a shitload of finish flaws I would be so damn pissed off. It seems like pretty much none of you guys own one, so how can you defend the company even with heaps of pictures to prove the shoddy workmanship of these guitars? If any you own an etherial of high quality such as noyan i would understand, but in this case it seems like most of you guys are just fanboying hard.

Edit- Also, being a great designer has .... all to to with building great guitars. I mean, there are plenty of out there, crazy/cool looking guitars that are just full on shite. Id rather a "basic" looking guitar over a guitar with fancy shit like carbon fibre and big body inlays if it was of superior quality, and I'm sure most of you would too.


----------



## NaYoN

jonajon91 said:


> Just posted this as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must add that this ^ is not for anyone. It is a prototype to try/practice new ideas. Looks pretty cool to me.



It is for me 



Helstormau said:


> I seriously don't get why all you guys keep backing etherial. I mean, how many of you guys actually own an etherial (with the exception of noyan) and can say without a doubt they are of exceptional quality? How many of you guys own a custom guitar worth around $3000-$4000 aud with flaws like some of the etherials in this thread straight out of the box? If I had ordered a custom guitar worth that much and it was sent to me with uneven frets, improperly drilled bridge pieces, not even remotely set up, out of whack side dots and had a shitload of finish flaws I would be so damn pissed off. It seems like pretty much none of you guys own one, so how can you defend the company even with heaps of pictures to prove the shoddy workmanship of these guitars? If any you own an etherial of high quality such as noyan i would understand, but in this case it seems like most of you guys are just fanboying hard.
> 
> Edit- Also, being a great designer has .... all to to with building great guitars. I mean, there are plenty of out there, crazy/cool looking guitars that are just full on shite. Id rather a "basic" looking guitar over a guitar with fancy shit like carbon fibre and big body inlays if it was of superior quality, and I'm sure most of you would too.



Despite being a happy Etherial customer, I agree. Both the negative and positive feedback here is more hyperbole than actual experience with the guitars. That being said, the reason I went with Etherial isn't because of the tribal inlays or whatever. I contacted every luthier I could find, and Etherial was the only one who could work with my requirements. Most luthiers said flat out no to 9 strings (funnily enough now that 9s are more popular I see some of them working on 9 string builds) and also the stuff I required to make the guitar not be gigantic and insanely heavy.


----------



## Helstormau

https://m.facebook.com/EtherialGuit...482497322500&source=46&__user=100001021938180

Looks like something a bukkake chick spat out


----------



## jonajon91

Wow dude, I don't know if you have a personal problem with etherial or something, but bumping a thread just to say something mean about one of his builds seems really childish. I know its still your opinion and all, but this is what the customer has asked for, so he is going to build it.

/rant

update start  These are all the pictures I can find in and around facebook.





This one was on the rings of saturn page about 7 hours ago, speculate as you will.





Hand stenciling this one





The MDB custom














More concepts showing a mix of headstocks, string counts ECT


----------



## Helstormau

Oh boo hoo. I made one joke. Not the end of the world dude. Seriously though, if Etherial could actually build a near flawless guitar I would have no problem with him, but so far he hasn't. I mean, alot of the guitars he makes are ugly as all hell but if they played great, where set up perfectly etc. I wouldnt be on this thread. Just seeing the stuff he is making for people is shocking. The guy shouldnt be called a luthier. If anything, he's just a crazy designer. If this is the work of a "real luthier" im sticking to my cheapo ibanezs. At least I get what I pay for


----------



## Riley

I can see some basic luthiery flaws nearly all of the pics I have seen of these guitars. I will say it looks like the quality is improving...slowly. My wrist hurts just looking at that neck profile.


----------



## jonajon91

> Proudly presenting the Azwen production artistry prototype, it&#8217;s currently undergoing end user testing so I&#8217;ll be looking to redevelop to make it market ready soon.
> -Materials-
> - 304 grade stainless steel fretboard
> -Body and neck 6mm aluminum with random brushed finish
> -Neck, Redgum and carbon fiber.
> -Redgum bridge block
> 
> -with special thanks to EMG Pickups




I have got to say design wise he has 1upped himself again. I cant say anything about the materials used, but this is a prototype.

---edit---

Im not sure if I have counted right, but is the strap lock above the 15th fret? That sounds a little neck dive-y to me.


----------



## Blood Tempest

Not sure if this interests any of you, but one of the people that will be testing this model is Lucas of Rings of Saturn. This is direct from their Facebook page:



> Lucas will be testing the new prototype model, Azwen, by Etherial Guitars and giving feedback for its redevelopment before the final product hits the market!


----------



## Alberto7

I appreciate what he does design-wise, but I don't know how to feel about the Azwen. I liked the front with those hole designs sort of complementing the lines of the body (reminds me of something H.R. Giger would do. Maybe that's a far stretch, but it does kinda remind me of his "ribbed/ridged" designs), but upon realizing that it's a 6mm aluminum sheet and seeing the back... ugghh, every good feeling that it initially managed to conjure up went away.

I seem to have missed it at some point, but does he do that flat neck carve on all of his guitars? When did he begin doing that? I assume it's optional. In this particular guitar, the flat neck just makes it look like the guitar is made of cardboard.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Hey...that looks like one of the body designs I helped make...oh wait...lol


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

i think it looks fu_c_king sick


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

jonajon91 said:


> Wow dude, I don't know if you have a personal problem with etherial or something, but bumping a thread just to say something mean about one of his builds seems really childish. I know its still your opinion and all, but this is what the customer has asked for, so he is going to build it.
> 
> /rant
> 
> update start  These are all the pictures I can find in and around facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one was on the rings of saturn page about 7 hours ago, speculate as you will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hand stenciling this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The MDB custom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More concepts showing a mix of headstocks, string counts ECT


 Holy Shit


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Alberto7 said:


> I appreciate what he does design-wise, but I don't know how to feel about the Azwen. I liked the front with those hole designs sort of complementing the lines of the body (reminds me of something H.R. Giger would do. Maybe that's a far stretch, but it does kinda remind me of his "ribbed/ridged" designs), but upon realizing that it's a 6mm aluminum sheet and seeing the back... ugghh, every good feeling that it initially managed to conjure up went away.
> 
> I seem to have missed it at some point, but does he do that flat neck carve on all of his guitars? When did he begin doing that? I assume it's optional. In this particular guitar, the flat neck just makes it look like the guitar is made of cardboard.



I agree with the Giger sentiments, mate. Haha!

But as for the neck profile, from my experience chatting around, majority of players have elected for that super, wicked flat D profile and some weird thickness. (Matt can now do 19mm or 18mm CONSISTENTLY thin necks, nut to heel, with a carbon shell for support. It is amazing!) Now, he still offers other stuff. My buddy Kim Forbes has a C-shape profile, and John Kiernan has a V-shaped profile on his Mor.

But to be honest, I am not sure what to think of Etherial anymore. I lost contact with Matt and cancelled my build. And half of the Etherial artists have been elitist douches towards me (no offense to any of them whom I talk with and are friends with) just for asking questions. Shit, a certain one (who is heavily active on here) even went so far as to block me on Facebook after the FIRST question I asked him concerning his contentment with the build. But really, towards a lot of the guys with Matt's axes, I am just left thinking: "dude, you bought a nice custom, but it don't mean dick as far as your playing goes..." - Needless to say, I still am friends with Captain Luckey, John Kiernan, Blake Allard, Kim of ONAN, Buster and Kris of HLB, etc. But it just got me thinking...


----------



## capoeiraesp

In terms of a concept, I like this. It's definitely unique, and thankfully doesn't have those god awful tribal tats. I do question why they neck is a squared off piece, as it sure as heck doesn't seem like a comfortable thing to play. 
This seems to really show off his skills as an industrial designer though, rather than a luthier. I'd imagine it's all been machine/laser cut.

If he spent some money and time training under a true luthier there's no reason why he couldn't become a highly regarded builder for all the right reasons. I look forward to the day when I look at his builds and don't see chips out of carves, rough finished corners/edges, incorrect neck angles (look closely at the bridge of the recent headless he did), and other things that don't put him in the league of being a guitar builder/luthier.


----------



## Alberto7

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I agree with the Giger sentiments, mate. Haha!
> 
> But as for the neck profile, from my experience chatting around, majority of players have elected for that super, wicked flat D profile and some weird thickness. (Matt can now do 19mm or 18mm CONSISTENTLY thin necks, nut to heel, with a carbon shell for support. It is amazing!) Now, he still offers other stuff. My buddy Kim Forbes has a C-shape profile, and John Kiernan has a V-shaped profile on his Mor.
> 
> But to be honest, I am not sure what to think of Etherial anymore. I lost contact with Matt and cancelled my build. And half of the Etherial artists have been elitist douches towards me (no offense to any of them whom I talk with and are friends with) just for asking questions. Shit, a certain one (who is heavily active on here) even went so far as to block me on Facebook after the FIRST question I asked him concerning his contentment with the build. But really, towards a lot of the guys with Matt's axes, I am just left thinking: "dude, you bought a nice custom, but it don't mean dick as far as your playing goes..." - Needless to say, I still am friends with Captain Luckey, John Kiernan, Blake Allard, Kim of ONAN, Buster and Kris of HLB, etc. But it just got me thinking...



Oh, that's right! I had forgotten Kim got his Etherial quite a while ago. Him and I started some online contact a couple of years back right after he registered here, but we kinda stopped talking about a year after, and he doesn't post around these boards anymore. I remember when he got his Etherial he would post great things about it on his and ONAN's Facebook. He also posted quite a few clips and videos with the guitar and it sounded and looked great. I remember being impressed by his guitar. It was the first time that I knew of Etherial. I had totally forgotten that I do have an acquaintance with an Etherial that he loves. That's kinda cool to know haha.


----------



## jonajon91

I think that the best thing that could happen with Etherial is that he and another solo luthier merge into one company. As far as I know, Mat does EVERYTHING with etherial from designs to the builds and running the business side of things as well. Imagine if he merged with someone with a good 20 years building and is obsessed with quality ... and taking pictures, it frustrates me how little we see of the guitars between blueprint and final product. Perhaps the other guy could spell ethereal right. 

---edit---

Shit, my next post is 1000. Better make it a good one


----------



## Hollowway

Dang, I love those new designs! That white FB is amazing! I may well have to order from this guy, if for no other reason than to support such reckless innovation and design. Just crazy cool stuff he's doing.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

^

His work is really starting to grow on me.


----------



## Prophetable

It's neat to look at this guy's growth from the beginning of the thread to current builds.


----------



## Helstormau

In all honesty, I thought the front of this guitar was pretty cool, but seriously what the .... is up with the back? Is it just me or does it look really uncomfortable? Not only that but the guitar looks kinda dirty (see the back of the guitar around the strap button and bits around the middle near the neck join). Seems like poor effort trying to show off a guitar thats dirty. 

And what in the .... is up with that neck? It looks so square it isn't even funny, that and it looks like it has dents and stuff in it. Like it wasn't sanded properly. Also, the whole "18mm all the way down the neck" profile looks uncomfortable as shit to me (but that's just personal preference), and it's flatter than a damn Ibanez neck.

Now look, I know I seem to be harsh on this guy, but seriously, what the .... is this monstrosity? I was kinda hoping this guitar would exceed my expectations and be his absolute best work tbh, but this is just shite. The front of the body looked cool as ...., but the rest just looked like he had just slapped it together and took some photos without even cleaning it first. This guy needs to get his bloody act together. This is just beyond a joke. I mean, how can so many of you guys not have noticed this shit? [Rant over]


----------



## Prophetable

I don't know which guitar you're talking about.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Helstormau said:


> In all honesty, I thought the front of this guitar was pretty cool, but seriously what the .... is up with the back? Is it just me or does it look really uncomfortable? Not only that but the guitar looks kinda dirty (see the back of the guitar around the strap button and bits around the middle near the neck join). Seems like poor effort trying to show off a guitar thats dirty.
> 
> And what in the .... is up with that neck? It looks so square it isn't even funny, that and it looks like it has dents and stuff in it. Like it wasn't sanded properly. Also, the whole "18mm all the way down the neck" profile looks uncomfortable as shit to me (but that's just personal preference), and it's flatter than a damn Ibanez neck.
> 
> Now look, I know I seem to be harsh on this guy, but seriously, what the .... is this monstrosity? I was kinda hoping this guitar would exceed my expectations and be his absolute best work tbh, but this is just shite. The front of the body looked cool as ...., but the rest just looked like he had just slapped it together and took some photos without even cleaning it first. This guy needs to get his bloody act together. This is just beyond a joke. I mean, how can so many of you guys not have noticed this shit? [Rant over]



@Prophetable: he is talking about the Azwen (white for Lucas Mann) and the MDB signature headless (for Tomas of Modern Day Babylon).

Now, like I said in my previous post (find it a page back), I have cancelled my build and lost contact with Matt.

In regard to the MDB guitar, the neck does look uncomfortable as hell due to being extremely flat; however, do consider that Tomas requested it be as flat as possible (his style, don't worry, he will learn once hand fatigue in between the thumb and index finger kicks in a lot faster). The consistent neck thickness is great, and the carbon shell to support the neck is a brilliant idea. (Tomas has a 18mm consistent neck, and Chris Storey has a 19mm consistent neck.)

In regards to the Azwen, you can easily see that it is rather dirty on here. Look on the back of the upper horn by the strap button. This reminds me of the problems that occurred with the white Sakura build. It was dirty. (And worse, dirt and hair and shit were trapped UNDER the clear coat.) However, while the back of the Azwen maybe uncomfortable looking, do consider that the back of the guitar really only rubs up against your gut....(or your legs/dick if you crabcore). The design behind this is also ingenious because it takes majority of the mass out of the guitar body. There is only the front face (which is super thin) and then the small sections (they look like boxes) built to house and cover the electronics and wiring. These "boxes" are then stacked on top of each other for that weird 3D effect. Very minimal body design and weight. But it is smart. - With that in mind, I wonder about the tone of this thing. It isn't made out of traditional wood....and we all know what happens when you chamber the body of a guitar or take out wood. Less resonance and tone is affected. If this thing has hardly any weight, depth, or body, I am willing to bet that the tone will either be cold and digital (thanks to the pickups and electronics acting as the only source of tonality shaping) or super tinny and thin-sounding (not full and rich), which of course, I don't think Lucas Mann will mind...


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> In regard to the MDB guitar, the neck does look uncomfortable as hell due to being extremely flat; however, do consider that Tomas requested it be as flat as possible (his style, don't worry, he will learn once hand fatigue in between the thumb and index finger kicks in a lot faster). The consistent neck thickness is great, and the carbon shell to support the neck is a brilliant idea. (Tomas has a 18mm consistent neck, and Chris Storey has a 19mm consistent neck.)


The carbon shell around the neck to stiffen it and allow for super thin profile is quite old, done by Vigier, Parker, and some other (I can't remember if Martin didn't build some like this). The consistent neck thickness is also not new, I even didn't it on my 2 firsts builds before Etherial ever shown one of his own. 
(but imo, flat and thin neck is a BIG mistake, I realize it now that I've spent time playing on this kind of neck and getting back to real nice round shape).



Wings of Obsidian said:


> In regards to the Azwen, you can easily see that it is rather dirty on here. Look on the back of the upper horn by the strap button. This reminds me of the problems that occurred with the white Sakura build. It was dirty. (And worse, dirt and hair and shit were trapped UNDER the clear coat.) However, while the back of the Azwen maybe uncomfortable looking, do consider that the back of the guitar really only rubs up against your gut....(or your legs/dick if you crabcore). The design behind this is also ingenious because it takes majority of the mass out of the guitar body. There is only the front face (which is super thin) and then the small sections (they look like boxes) built to house and cover the electronics and wiring. These "boxes" are then stacked on top of each other for that weird 3D effect. Very minimal body design and weight. But it is smart. - With that in mind, I wonder about the tone of this thing. It isn't made out of traditional wood....and we all know what happens when you chamber the body of a guitar or take out wood. Less resonance and tone is affected. If this thing has hardly any weight, depth, or body, I am willing to bet that the tone will either be cold and digital (thanks to the pickups and electronics acting as the only source of tonality shaping) or super tinny and thin-sounding (not full and rich), which of course, I don't think Lucas Mann will mind...


I agree on that point. The build seem dirty, and we can't determine if it's just a layer of dirt above the paint or if it's a paint default that show the carbon fiber behind the white paint. And taking pictures of builds when you're a luthier (specially when claiming being a professional) is a very very important part that should not be taken lightly, which is the case here.

For the design of this guitar, it has some nice ideas, definitely wanting to do something original (and I like it!). However, I'm highly sceptical about the balance of such shape, regarding the place of the strap button (as said above), the very light body and le length of the neck. i would agree with such design if the build where headless, or at least without tuners on the headstock, but there... :/
About the comfort of the back, I'm sceptical also, but I can't judge without having the thing in hand.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> The carbon shell around the neck to stiffen it and allow for super thin profile is quite old, done by Vigier, Parker, and some other (I can't remember if Martin didn't build some like this). The consistent neck thickness is also not new, I even didn't it on my 2 firsts builds before Etherial ever shown one of his own.
> (but imo, flat and thin neck is a BIG mistake, I realize it now that I've spent time playing on this kind of neck and getting back to real nice round shape).



Vigier did this? You sure?  point me in the direct! Looks like I might have to buy another Vigier now! (I'm about 100% sure Vigier only uses a carbon rod down the middle of their necks for their 90/10 system....they don't do carbon shells.) - Also, point me in the direction of the Parker...this intrigues me.

Funny point though: the neck of the Azwen. It literally looks like a cut flat piece of wood. (Hey, it must be pretty easy to just saw off and smooth part of a 2x4 right?) That shit just cannot even remotely be comfortable. It almost is like we are devolving and going backwards in progress here. The first guitars had just a cut square chunk of wood for necks....it was simple and easy......then people eventually began trying carve different shapes (including the trapezoid) until they finally smoothed everything down and settle on the curvature of the semi-circle that we all recognize. But seriously, it is like we are going back to "caveman times" here and using the first type of necks all over again.....history repeats itself I guess. We weren't around back then, (and Matt seems to have forgotten the history of the instrument if he ever looked into it), so we might as well experiment with it for ourselves before we go back to the same conclusion and start working with a semi-circle curvature again.

I made a comment and inquiry on Facebook regarding the shape and oddness of the neck and Matt done went and snapped at me saying that "I do not know the full details about the neck". Well naw shit.....of course I don't know the details, which is why I was inquiring! -.-'


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Vigier did this? You sure?  point me in the direct! Looks like I might have to buy another Vigier now! (I'm about 100% sure Vigier only uses a carbon rod down the middle of their necks for their 90/10 system....they don't do carbon shells.) - Also, point me in the direction of the Parker...this intrigues me.


I'm doubting now... I'll search for that, but I was almost sure that they both did, and specially Parker with their thin basswood neck without TR. I need to check that. But we have some nice magazine here in France saying tons of sh** about guitars and all just to sell stuff to innocent guitarists, so maybe I took it from their... 



Wings of Obsidian said:


> Funny point though: the neck of the Azwen. It literally looks like a cut flat piece of wood. (Hey, it must be pretty easy to just saw off and smooth part of a 2x4 right?) That shit just cannot even remotely be comfortable. It almost is like we are devolving and going backwards in progress here. The first guitars had just a cut square chunk of wood for necks....it was simple and easy......then people eventually began trying carve different shapes (including the trapezoid) until they finally smoothed everything down and settle on the curvature of the semi-circle that we all recognize. But seriously, it is like we are going back to "caveman times" here and using the first type of necks all over again.....history repeats itself I guess. We weren't around back then, (and Matt seems to have forgotten the history of the instrument if he ever looked into it), so we might as well experiment with it for ourselves before we go back to the same conclusion and start working with a semi-circle curvature again.


I totally agree. Having too much material on the side of the neck is really uncomfortable, no matter how you hold your neck (classic or backward thumb). If you want to use this, the only comfortable way imo is the "lapsteel" holding and playing style. Other than this, I think it's just a waste of time and material. And I think that the builder has a huge need of councilling, advising, for the customer. If something looks to odd and seems to be just out of imagination, he should just say it to the customer. If necessary, maybe build a scrap wood prototype to show.

PS: seen here:
http://www.parkerguitars.com/Fly-Mojo-Guitar-Models/fly-mojo.html

*Neck Design:*

_ Solid one piece with carbon-glass-epoxy reinforcement_

So this is how I understand it: a wood core neck with carbon fibre/epoxy matrix reinforcement.


----------



## jonajon91

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I made a comment and inquiry on Facebook regarding the shape and oddness of the neck and Matt done went and snapped at me saying that "I do not know the full details about the neck". Well naw shit.....of course I don't know the details, which is why I was inquiring! -.-'



Wow, that really does not sound like Matt. He must be having a bad day, but its still unacceptable.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Funny point though: the neck of the Azwen. It literally looks like a cut flat piece of wood. (Hey, it must be pretty easy to just saw off and smooth part of a 2x4 right?) That shit just cannot even remotely be comfortable. It almost is like we are devolving and going backwards in progress here. The first guitars had just a cut square chunk of wood for necks....it was simple and easy......then people eventually began trying carve different shapes (including the trapezoid) until they finally smoothed everything down and settle on the curvature of the semi-circle that we all recognize. But seriously, it is like we are going back to "caveman times" here and using the first type of necks all over again.....history repeats itself I guess. We weren't around back then, (and Matt seems to have forgotten the history of the instrument if he ever looked into it), so we might as well experiment with it for ourselves before we go back to the same conclusion and start working with a semi-circle curvature again.



Hang on there. I have a relatively flat profile on both my basses and guitar and I like it a lot actually. Most of the ibanezes that people love around here are flat, super thin necks? I like mine with a little meat to em but still, doesn't mean they're bad simply because they don't gel with your playing style and hands. I personally hate a lot of ibanez necks because they're too thin and their basses have a wider string spacing that feels weird to me. Does that mean Ibanez is now churning out bullshit hunks of wood they're passing off as guitars? Absolutely not. Same concept here. He's doing what people are asking him for. I have a crazy profile on my bass he's building. I could have done literally any profile imaginable. From the endurneck to the fender fat-neck to the Schecter baseball bats (jokes to lighten the mood). He creates the profiles that the people paying for the guitars want, it's as simple as that. His entire business is based on building guitars based on what his paying customers want. He can try and direct things as much as he wants to build a brand name but as long as he remains a custom shop, his company's image will be dictated by the people that buy from him. How about everyone stop bitching about the guy for 10 goddamn minutes and just let him actually get some time under his belt. You'd be surprised what he can do with a little support. I have my faith and support in the guy and that mean's a lot coming from a nihilist. 

/rant. This isn't directed at anyone specifically, just the general vibe of this thread. Unless you have an Etherial in your possession, your opinion of it is purely based on pictures and other's opinions on those pictures. It's petty fellas. Like a bunch of girls bitching about some clothes they're afraid to spend the money on. I'll have my bass from Matt soon enough. I plan on giving a thorough and objective review of the whole thing to lay some of this to rest.


----------



## Necromagnon

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> /rant. This isn't directed at anyone specifically, just the general vibe of this thread. Unless you have an Etherial in your possession, your opinion of it is purely based on pictures and other's opinions on those pictures.


Don't tell me it's not like this for EVERY builder around here, with everyone gasing for guitars they've never touched.


----------



## jonajon91

Old build





New build




Yeah, I think he has upped his game.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Hang on there. I have a relatively flat profile on both my basses and guitar and I like it a lot actually. Most of the ibanezes that people love around here are flat, super thin necks? I like mine with a little meat to em but still, doesn't mean they're bad simply because they don't gel with your playing style and hands. I personally hate a lot of ibanez necks because they're too thin and their basses have a wider string spacing that feels weird to me. Does that mean Ibanez is now churning out bullshit hunks of wood they're passing off as guitars? Absolutely not. Same concept here. He's doing what people are asking him for. I have a crazy profile on my bass he's building. I could have done literally any profile imaginable. From the endurneck to the fender fat-neck to the Schecter baseball bats (jokes to lighten the mood). He creates the profiles that the people paying for the guitars want, it's as simple as that. His entire business is based on building guitars based on what his paying customers want. He can try and direct things as much as he wants to build a brand name but as long as he remains a custom shop, his company's image will be dictated by the people that buy from him. How about everyone stop bitching about the guy for 10 goddamn minutes and just let him actually get some time under his belt. You'd be surprised what he can do with a little support. I have my faith and support in the guy and that mean's a lot coming from a nihilist.
> 
> /rant. This isn't directed at anyone specifically, just the general vibe of this thread. Unless you have an Etherial in your possession, your opinion of it is purely based on pictures and other's opinions on those pictures. It's petty fellas. Like a bunch of girls bitching about some clothes they're afraid to spend the money on. I'll have my bass from Matt soon enough. I plan on giving a thorough and objective review of the whole thing to lay some of this to rest.



Dude, you know me....I'm referring to the square shape. Not the thin profile. Not the flatness in anyway. The PURE SQUAREness of it all.

Read my comment again carefully there D-Luck... -.-' Concave versus convex curvature isn't my issue.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Pictures can tell a lot about quality and craftsmanship. If you can't see what's wrong between these two photos before and after being strung up and what it indicates about the guitar's construction, then you don't understand why I've stated so many things about QC regarding this brand.


----------



## darren

Necromagnon said:


> I'm doubting now... I'll search for that, but I was almost sure that they both did, and specially Parker with their thin basswood neck without TR. I need to check that. But we have some nice magazine here in France saying tons of sh** about guitars and all just to sell stuff to innocent guitarists, so maybe I took it from their...



The Parker neck didn't have the carbon/glass weave shell for reinforcement. It was to even out the resonance of the basswood. But the stability was a welcome side effect. 

The necks didn't have a truss _rod_, but they did use a truss _cable_ that ran from the headstock to inside the body! which allowed for dealing in some back-bow to counteract string tension as needed.


----------



## thrsher

pictures can be deceiving, especially at odd angles, i will wait and judge when the guitar is in hand( and i mean my custom order not current guitars of discussion)


----------



## capoeiraesp

In looking forward to your honest and experienced review, Damo.


----------



## Necromagnon

darren said:


> The Parker neck didn't have the carbon/glass weave shell for reinforcement. It was to even out the resonance of the basswood. But the stability was a welcome side effect.
> 
> The necks didn't have a truss _rod_, but they did use a truss _cable_ that ran from the headstock to inside the body! which allowed for dealing in some back-bow to counteract string tension as needed.


Ok, thanks a lot for the infos. 

Imo, I don't see how adding a carbon fibre/epoxy shell around a neck could be thought to enhance resonance and that stiffness camejust as a side effect... I would think of it as a commercial argument only, turned upside down to keep spreading the world with this kind of "resonance/infinite sustain" sh**...


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Necromagnon said:


> Don't tell me it's not like this for EVERY builder around here, with everyone gasing for guitars they've never touched.



No, you're right. Every builder has hordes of gear nerds like us sitting around and judging every move they make, every slab of wood they cut. As much as I want to say Ritter makes the best basses in the world and are the greatest things ever made (which some very well might be ) I can't validate my opinion outside of what I've seen and heard. I think what was bothering me, was that the voices that have held and played these guitars were being drowned out by the speculators. Especially because of thrsher's point. 


thrsher said:


> pictures can be deceiving, especially at odd angles, i will wait and judge when the guitar is in hand( and i mean my custom order not current guitars of discussion)


 Hit it dead on. 



Wings of Obsidian said:


> Dude, you know me....I'm referring to the square shape. Not the thin profile. Not the flatness in anyway. The PURE SQUAREness of it all.
> 
> Read my comment again carefully there D-Luck... -.-' Concave versus convex curvature isn't my issue.



That's the thing though, they're the same profile? Flat with rounded shoulders. Just because the degree on that shoulder is slightly different doesn't change the concept completely. Its just another goofy .... neck profile that could use some better documentation


----------



## capoeiraesp

Do you want me to explain the two different pictures of the bridges? It's not a camera angle thing.


----------



## BouhZik

capoeiraesp said:


> Do you want me to explain the two different pictures of the bridges? It's not a camera angle thing.



I can see gaps between the bridges... and I see 1 gold saddle lost among 7 (scratched) black ones.

I'm good?


----------



## downburst82

capoeiraesp said:


> Do you want me to explain the two different pictures of the bridges? It's not a camera angle thing.



bridge pieces 3-4-5-6 he had to file extra grooves in front of the saddle at the very front of the bridge pieces....


I still like some of his designs


----------



## capoeiraesp

Bingo!
If the guitar was designed properly from a functional, correctly calculated perspective, the grooves would not have to be done. There's so much more to a guitar than just angling some frets, carving some unique curves and slapping on the latest in trendy hardware. I just hope that the owner of the guitar in question doesn't decide to increase his string gauge because he'll have to make those grooves deeper or possibly have to cut grooves in the ones that don't have them. 
Those bridges don't require/shouldn't have to have grooves cut at the front.


----------



## ECGuitars

capoeiraesp said:


> Bingo!
> If the guitar was designed properly from a functional, correctly calculated perspective, the grooves would not have to be done. There's so much more to a guitar than just angling some frets, carving some unique curves and slapping on the latest in trendy hardware. I just hope that the owner of the guitar in question doesn't decide to increase his string gauge because he'll have to make those grooves deeper or possibly have to cut grooves in the ones that don't have them.
> Those bridges don't require/shouldn't have to have grooves cut at the front.



Not to mention the annoying buzz it could be potentially causing, if they strings are touching the saddles it could also be causing intonation issues as well. Honestly, most of the mistakes I see this guy making are complete amateur mistakes; You don't see most of these on a 400 import Schecter or Ibanez, let alone a multi-thousand dollar custom guitar. Things like these are okay if you're at home building for yourself and honing your craft, NOT on builds for a customer, you shouldn't be taking on customer builds until you've honed your skills to the point where you can make a REPEATABLE, respectably put together instrument. However, this is just my two cents


----------



## Thrashmanzac

A lot of people file down saddles/tuner holes to fit larger strings. What exactly is the problem here?


----------



## capoeiraesp

Not at the point closest to the pickup end of the bridge pieces.


----------



## Thrashmanzac

ah now i see it, are those abm saddles? you would think they'd have another set of adjustable allan screws to prevent that exact problem


----------



## capoeiraesp

Well, as far as I can see, the 3rd string is lowered as far as it will go but it still had to be filed so there'd never be a way around that. This is where it comes back to builder error.

ECGuitars, this all comes back to what was discussed months ago - training one's skills on another person's dime.


----------



## Thrashmanzac

yeah i guess the body must be carved where the bridges are. weird.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Weird? Maybe. Inability to calculate a neck angle and how a complex bridge should be placed? Definitely.
I wonder what/if there's a reasoning behind having such a shallow cut in the string saddle for the 8th, versus such a deep cut in the saddle for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd?


----------



## Necromagnon

capoeiraesp said:


> I wonder what/if there's a reasoning behind having such a shallow cut in the string saddle for the 8th, versus such a deep cut in the saddle for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd?


I think you'll wonder for a long time... 

That's horrible mistake btw. Even I didn't do so... :/
I don't know how he had to route those grooves, because evenif the strings and saddles aren't parallele, it still needs a very very close to 45° tohave the string touching the body of the saddle... Another thing on that picture: it seems to me that the higher string is touching the bridge behind the saddle. Is it just me? And also, there's this conic gap between 1st/2nd/3rd saddle showing bad mounting of the saddles.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I don't know if the slight space between the higher string saddles would cause any issues, but hey, that pales in comparison to the other main issue.
What happens long term when the owner of the guitar wants to adjust the neck or action to suit different setups?

If this guy was genuinely improving his quality like some are touting, then why do things like rough pickup routes still keep showing up? They're not hard to get right and tidy. It's a reasonably high res pic so save it and zoom in and you'll see what I mean.






Why not spend the extra time getting the inner edges of where the bridge is and the bottom carve sanded clean so there's no bubble/lump to the body wrap?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Aggghhh! Those corners on the pickup route/cavity.....sooo bad. Making my OCD act up. >-<


----------



## UnderTheSign

capoeiraesp said:


> Weird? Maybe. Inability to calculate a neck angle and how a complex bridge should be placed? Definitely.
> I wonder what/if there's a reasoning behind having such a shallow cut in the string saddle for the 8th, versus such a deep cut in the saddle for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd?


I think it's more a matter of recessing the bridge than changing neck angle in this case but yeah, rookie mistake that shouldn't have happened.


----------



## TemjinStrife

thrsher said:


> pictures can be deceiving, especially at odd angles, i will wait and judge when the guitar is in hand( and i mean my custom order not current guitars of discussion)



Look where arguments like this got us in the Roter situation.


----------



## capoeiraesp

And there in lies the problem with so many of these guitars being made for endorsees; we don't hear/read of any criticisms regarding the builds.


----------



## darren

It looks to me like there may be an angled recess under where the bridges/tuners are, causing them to be angled back away from the neck. Thus, moving the saddles back to set intonation will also end up moving the saddle downward in relation to the fretboard. Then the saddles have to be re-compensated for the fretboard radius. Ultimately the string ends up colliding with the front of the bridge piece. 

It looks like he may have already put in taller saddle inserts to try and compensate (note that the material on the 7th saddle is different), but then he had to file channels in the front of the bridge to allow the string to pass.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> And there in lies the problem with so many of these guitars being made for endorsees; we don't hear/read of any criticisms regarding the builds.



Yep, they can't/won't dare say shit... -.-'

I think the reason Matt refused me endorsement was because he knew that I've criticized his builds and questioned various flaws and shortcomings.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Even one of the more recent builds on here for a member/endorsee never featured pics but the chips in the body carves, as one example, were clear as day.

Edit

What in the world is happening where the neck meets the body? I don't care if you add all the carbon fibre in the world for support.


----------



## jonajon91

jonajon91 said:


> Wow dude, I don't know if you have a personal problem with etherial or something, but bumping a thread ...





Wings of Obsidian said:


> I think the reason Matt refused me endorsement was ...



Found it 

---edit--- 

didn't mean to sound like such a dick, but I could not resist.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Found it
> 
> ---edit---
> 
> didn't mean to sound like such a dick, but I could not resist.



You're funny. Sadly I do not have a personal problem though. (I know, based on my description above on this page, it sounds like I should and do.....but I really don't.) I still stay up-to-date with Etherial stuff outside of here and chat with my buddies who are Etherial artists. But I just do it from a more critical and skeptical standpoint now.

You're funny though, Jon.


----------



## Helstormau

jonajon91 said:


> Old build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think he has upped his game.



Jesus christ, that second headstock is terrible. Well, they both are but that one is just much worse


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Helstormau said:


> Jesus christ, that second headstock is terrible. Well, they both are but that one is just much worse



The second one is no where near done. That's a progress shot. The final thing will be up soon enough


----------



## jonajon91

Dude, I was referring to the inlay. That headstock is still in early days


----------



## capoeiraesp

That's not an inlay on the headstock.


----------



## ormsby guitars

It's a decal. Under a finish that is not compatible with the decal. If the owner is lucky it will just have that milky glow around it. If not it will be back under warranty (?) for a delaminated headstock.


----------



## Alberto7

Wait a second, was that second headstock cut off from the neck with a *very* dull saw or something? What the frack is going on there?


----------



## jonajon91

Thats just the end of the carbon fiber wrap.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Oh hey look, it got better? Surprise! Again, still progress shots, which means it's not done, which means it won't look perfect because, again, it's not done. So simmer down now.


----------



## DiegusMaximus32

These are too gaudy, in my opinion. I really like the one that Tomas from Modern Day Babylon just got. It's a little more toned down and classy-looking:






All of the others look like the owner of Ed Hardy Clothing got into lutherie.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Debating on posting a pic of my Etherial build/design on here since it'll never see realization...... 

Only reason I am reconsidering is because I am noticing "trends' in the sense that people are vipers...they steal ideas from others, and mine has some absolute unique ideas that have not been in any other Etherial build (or probably will be). In fact, some of my ideas for features are things I have not seen in any other guitar in existence (but there probably is at least one out there with all the millions of guitars in the world nowadays.) But Matt is the only guy capable of such a monumental undertaking with what I was asking of my design. And that is PRECISELY why I am even more bummed out...he seemed to be the "only guy capable".

Anyway...since the build won't see the light of day, like I said, I might post it anyway.

LuckeyBeard: you've seen it, so you can attest to the fact that mine is wayyyy "different" and very "toned down" compared to the cynical ones's remarks above.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Post!


----------



## jonajon91

I'd ask Matt before posting. He might have those ideas saved for future (or current?) builds.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Debating on posting a pic of my Etherial build/design on here since it'll never see realization......
> 
> Only reason I am reconsidering is because I am noticing "trends' in the sense that people are vipers...they steal ideas from others, and mine has some absolute unique ideas that have not been in any other Etherial build (or probably will be). In fact, some of my ideas for features are things I have not seen in any other guitar in existence (but there probably is at least one out there with all the millions of guitars in the world nowadays.) But Matt is the only guy capable of such a monumental undertaking with what I was asking of my design. And that is PRECISELY why I am even more bummed out...he seemed to be the "only guy capable".
> 
> Anyway...since the build won't see the light of day, like I said, I might post it anyway.
> 
> LuckeyBeard: you've seen it, so you can attest to the fact that mine is wayyyy "different" and very "toned down" compared to the cynical ones's remarks above.



Yeah, that was a classy design for sure. It took me a bit to get my head around some of the weirder aspects, but it sounded pretty sweet. I'm pretty bummed as well that you're not going to push it through. Maybe someday!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> I'd ask Matt before posting. He might have those ideas saved for future (or current?) builds.



Indeed. But we pose two problems:

1.) I've lost contact with him. (Boy, it'd be awkward as hell popping out of nowhere to ask "hey, can I post my/our design?") -.-')

2.) The design was 90% my ideas (as far as features) and 10% Matt's ideas (on how to string everything into a functional, adaptable musical instrument). To be honest, like I said, I don't think he will use these ideas in another build....they are very unique and are weird.....really weird....if ya get my drift. xD


----------



## jonajon91

In which case post away.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I'd totally be interested in taking a peek at this design thing, myself. I'm a total geek on designy stuff for guitars, it's like a drug I swear. >_>;


----------



## downburst82

would love to see it to..just saying


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Ok, yeah, .... it. Ya boy unfriended me on Facebook and won't answer any of my communications or correspondence.

Here is my futuristic design. (Based around my industrial metal band and based on the idea of a targetting computer.)

I have whited-out the "Other" section here, as well as the small bit detailing how the lights are controlled and how the switches operate. (Sorry guys, that is confidential.  )







Pretty much me and Matt worked together on this for a long time. I designed the body artwork (the spherical symbol on the body), as well fed Matt ideas for specs and how the switches and lights were to operate; and Matt just put it all together into this.

Quite a remarkable little design. Shame it'll never see the light of day...

Any questions: feel free to shoot them at me.


----------



## ikarus

For me it looks like every other Etherial.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Going with Ikarus on this one.
So that fretboard design ended up being pretty much what went on this one below?


----------



## Hollowway

Dang, Wings, that FB inlay is fantastic! You no what you need to do now: A call to Dylan is in order.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Hollowway said:


> Dang, Wings, that FB inlay is fantastic! You no what you need to do now: A call to Dylan is in order.



And a four year wait?... . But he would charge a lot more too... (Twice the price I got quoted from Matt.)

Capoeiraesp: Technically, my design was done before Lucas Mann's was finished....but hey, I'm just going by what time everything arrived and was released.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

ikarus said:


> For me it looks like every other Etherial.



Every Etherial looks like an Etherial.


----------



## capoeiraesp

That's all good. If it was you who came up with the design first and then it got used elsewhere that would be a real kick in the pants.


----------



## Hollowway

Wings of Obsidian said:


> And a four year wait?... . But he would charge a lot more too... (Twice the price I got quoted from Matt.)
> 
> Capoeiraesp: Technically, my design was done before Lucas Mann's was finished....but hey, I'm just going by what time everything arrived and was released.



Oh, wow, I thought they were roughly the same price. Maybe the 8th string and inlays kick up Dylan's price substantially.


----------



## capoeiraesp

You're also comparing two completely different levels of build quality.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Hollowway said:


> Oh, wow, I thought they were roughly the same price. Maybe the 8th string and inlays kick up Dylan's price substantially.



Here is a reference: look at how much a DAEMONESS goes for used around here....$3000+ right? So imagine the price that the original owner had to lay down. Dude...my build with Matt was wayyyyyyy cheaper. (Talking in the field of a grand+ cheaper).

But if I could work something out with Dylan, I would love to pick his brain on more ideas for aesthetics because I got some crazy shit brewing in my head to change and tweak on this! xD


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, that approachability, price wise, is what keeps my eye on Etherial. I'm not sold on the quality of the details yet (because it can make me batty when there are cosmetic flaws), but there is a lot of craziness that goes into those for that price.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, that approachability, price wise, is what keeps my eye on Etherial. I'm not sold on the quality of the details yet (because it can make me batty when there are cosmetic flaws), but there is a lot of craziness that goes into those for that price.



But damn if your headstock chipped or snapped off within the first month...


----------



## RedDog22

just finished reading the entire thread last night & today  Don't know what to think  other than the builder jumped-in PERHAPS before refining his skills. Am I also to understand that the builder didn't/doesn't have the benefit of having a seasoned, in-house luthier on staff to detect flaws before they went into final production? . Maybe he didn't want someone else, with similar designs/ideas to get in front of him in the niche market for exotic customs? I also gather that pricing was/is very competitive so that people who might not otherwise consider getting a custom-build would consider it. Still doesn't absolve builder form having mechanically sound instruments being shipped-out. Cosmetics is one thing but proper mechanics are essential amiright?

Reminds me of axiom against purchasing "first gen." electronics because they invariably have short-comings which, mostly, are addressed in later, gen. builds. Some are fortunate and get a 'diamond in the rough' while others have to upgrade shortly thereafter just for the thrill of being the first one on the block w/ "x". If someone can afford to take the risk then thats their prerogative, 

Interesting read although the expense is out of this poor, novice, metal heads  league at present 

I wrote the above having limited knowledge of guitar anatomy from what I've read in this thread and gleaned(sp.) from other sites in my quest to familiarize my self w/ axe anatomy & maintenance because I got my first (used) 7-string, 6 months ago. I'm just some guitar player, hobbyist on the internet so take everything I said w/ a grain of salt. I'm sure the process of building, given all those varied mat'ls is quite complex but player satisfaction is essential.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RedDog22 said:


> I also gather that pricing was/is very competitive so that people who might not otherwise consider getting a custom-build would consider it. Still doesn't absolve builder form having mechanically sound instruments being shipped-out. Cosmetics is one thing but proper mechanics are essential amiright?



First sentence = why I decided to get a custom build.
Second sentence = why I decided to call it off.



RedDog22 said:


> Reminds me of axiom against purchasing "first gen." electronics because they invariably have short-comings which, mostly, are addressed in later, gen. builds.



Thank you! My thoughts exactly! Everything improves overtime. So, just as with technology, I think we better wait and let others become "obsolete" or experience "glitches" first.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

As of today another Etherial build has been completed. This one is for my friend Buster Odeholm of Humanity's Last Breath. (He's currently the drummer, looking to switch to guitars alongside their current guitarist Kristoffer, who has the other HLB guitar.)

I have not seen any updates from Matt AT ALL concerning this build on the Etherial page. So I'm guessing it was placed heavily under wraps. And to be quite frank.....the build is extremely toned down and doesn't look all that impressive at all. Typical "Meshuggah one pickup ripoff".

Let the flaw investigations and obsessions begin, guys...


----------



## jonajon91

Interesting. I have not heard/seen anything of this build before. Also interesting that he has an evertune bridge in there, not many people have started building with them yet so good on him for jumping in there (though is the bottom right corner hanging over the the edge of the cutaway thing?). It really does not look like your standard etherial with all the tuners on one side of the headstock.

I wonder why this was kept so quiet.

---edit---

where did you get the picture/info?


----------



## WiseSplinter

Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like its strung up-side-down?


----------



## BlackMastodon

WiseSplinter said:


> Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like its strung up-side-down?


I was gonna make the typical 'lolhe built it backwards' joke buuuut it actually looks like you're right about this unless it's an optical illusion.


----------



## RickSchneider

The drummer from that band plays with his strings upside down. ie he has his low string where his high string would be. Insane, but true


----------



## RickSchneider

He essentially did the Jimi Hendrix solution of using a right handed guitar, but never restrung it


----------



## downburst82

look at the bridge intonation...pretty sure that its strung backwards...

*edit* haha so he actually plays upside down!!! thats pretty awesome! and in that case I guess its all good!!


----------



## Xplora

Dudes in this thread need to get a hobby... like playing guitars, or something...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Interesting. I have not heard/seen anything of this build before. Also interesting that he has an evertune bridge in there, not many people have started building with them yet so good on him for jumping in there (though is the bottom right corner hanging over the the edge of the cutaway thing?). It really does not look like your standard etherial with all the tuners on one side of the headstock.
> 
> I wonder why this was kept so quiet.
> 
> ---edit---
> 
> where did you get the picture/info?



Buster is a friends of mine.

Super under wraps about the build.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

WiseSplinter said:


> Hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like its strung up-side-down?



It is. Thanks to those providing the references. 

In Sweden, it is hard to find lefties (especially cheap), so Buster pulled a Jimi Hendrix and played a right hand flipped....but he left the strings as they were. (Didn't restring.) So it's like he learned upside-down. It's insane but he can still play it. He's a great guy and a killer musician.


----------



## WiseSplinter

That's interesting. I've seen that before somewhere, I think it was the dude in bloodbath perhaps?

Guitar looks pretty cool though, like a hybrid M8M / RGD


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

WiseSplinter said:


> That's interesting. I've seen that before somewhere, I think it was the dude in bloodbath perhaps?
> 
> Guitar looks pretty cool though, like a hybrid M8M / RGD



Dis thought doh. ^


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Let the flaw investigations and obsessions begin, guys...


The chamfer curve on the right side of the body is pretty ugly, and gets really close to the bridge. He could have done something a bit more "curvy" to pass farther from the bridge and have something more dynamic. The same for this curve on the upper horn that looks pretty "fat".
And there's this odd reflect on the body that reminds me of a poorly prepaired paint before laquer (if it was a light/shadow reflect, it would have been much more contrasted and spread all over the same heigth spots). Other than this, I can't say any more bad things about it from there.

PS: oh, forgot one thing about intonation. Ok, the guitar is trung upside down (and I strictly have no problem with that), the intonation is still wrong. It should be a (n almost) continous line for the 4 left strings, then a new one starting further for the 3 right. Here, look at the 2 lowest, then the 2 middle, and the 3 left. Nothing's wrong?

PPS: you're welcome.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Re: the intonation, it might not be a standard tuning and that's an incredibly easy fix. But you are right about the glossy spot on the body.

Very strange but pretty cool that he plays the guitar upside down. Haven't seen that too often, just figured people would restring the guitar when they realized they could.


----------



## Thrashman

It is stringed upside down, like a righty. It's a drop E variant with an G#-A dissonant on the top two strings.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Necromagnon said:


> PS: oh, forgot one thing about intonation. Ok, the guitar is trung upside down (and I strictly have no problem with that), the intonation is still wrong. It should be a (n almost) continous line for the 4 left strings, then a new one starting further for the 3 right. Here, look at the 2 lowest, then the 2 middle, and the 3 left. Nothing's wrong?



The intonation has been incorrect on EVERY SINGLE Etherial that we've seen final photos of. Including the owner's demo videos. This is fundamental stuff, that every builder should pride themselves on.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> PS: oh, forgot one thing about intonation. Ok, the guitar is trung upside down (and I strictly have no problem with that), the intonation is still wrong. It should be a (n almost) continous line for the 4 left strings, then a new one starting further for the 3 right. Here, look at the 2 lowest, then the 2 middle, and the 3 left. Nothing's wrong?
> 
> PPS: you're welcome.



Can I just say that HLB plays in a WHACK-ASS tuning?


----------



## Pikka Bird

Dick Dale plays upside down, and Albert King did too...  The Bloodbath guy that was mentioned is Dan Swanø. 

But anyways, no matter what otherworldly tunings these HLB guys play in, I can't imagine that light string needs to be intonated that far back compared to the thicker one right next to it.

The guitar's bevels look cool, though. If it didn't go so far down on the ass-end then I'd have no problem at all with it. Certainly better than those on the RGD (flame shield: on?).

@Wings Of Obsidian: I really like the look of that prospective guitar of yours, but I gotta ask- other than the garish graphical inlay styling which has become synonymous with Etherial, what makes it so groundbreaking? Surely there's literally NO legal reason why you can't reveal what's under the whited-out "other"-section, or the last part of the LED line? 

No matter what, I find it a lot more tasteful than his... errr... _A million billion squiggly jaggy lines that I'll claim are for "ergonomic purposes" with a silly Discworld-ish slash Gaelic (or whatever the fuck those words are) name_ "designs". Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge sucker for bold, graphical stuff and modern, sleek stylings, but those shapes? Come _on_?!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Pikka Bird said:


> @Wings Of Obsidian: I really like the look of that prospective guitar of yours, but I gotta ask- other than the garish graphical inlay styling which has become synonymous with Etherial, what makes it so groundbreaking? Surely there's literally NO legal reason why you can't reveal what's under the whited-out "other"-section, or the last part of the LED line?



Actually, the graphics suck on my part.  (Aesthetics aren't everything mi amigo.) I just wanted like a futuristic targeting computer-esque design. But the actual stuff in it isn't top secret of anything...so I'll share about 3/4ths of it all with ya.

Anyway, everything in the guitar actually has lights in it. Under my swirly-spherical design/logo on the body that I designed and Matt placed on the body for me, there are lights that outlight it in red light. (Yay, targeting computer red!) Now, there are also lights on the side of the neck that are in the fret markers (ya know, like on Devin Townsend's custom Framus?). Same with the fretboard. The design on their has lights to fill it out and turn it all red.

The main trick behind all this was trying to figure how not to have like a hundred tiny little lights in the axe (God forbid if one breaks of shorts right?) So Matt devised a cool little way of reflecting and refracting light inside the guitar that could illuminate the whole thing on the inside and make it look bright as can be around the body design, in the fretboard inlay, and in the fretboard markers. (Beats that cheap pain/inlay/glow 
stuff he uses).

Last thing really that was a major pain in the ass that I take pride in is the "monkey switch" design (that is what I call it as a joke xD). It utilizes momentary reed switches that interact with the rare earth magnets placed over top of them by sliding the magnets around on the little tracts outlined in the body for them. (Look at the upper horn). 

The switch positions are a master on/off. Fretboard and fret-markers on/off. And body on/off with a momentary killswitch to make the lights flash when pressed. (If needs be, the killswitches can be re-routed easily so that the one on the upper horn is a kill for the pickups and the one by the volume knob is for the lights.)

We were working on a way for the lights to interact at various time when the strings were hit (having them sort of "sense" the vibration and then turn on the follow the vibration, ya know?) But every idea we had risked creating a magnetic field that could interfere with the pickups.

Like I have said before, Matt was the only guy who could do my crazy-ass design...which sucks...because I really wanted to work with him. But he just blew me off and refuses to communicate back with me.  (Hey, money is in hand, man? Does that work? Negative.)


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Can I just say that HLB plays in a WHACK-ASS tuning?


I'm not very familiar with strange tunings, my bad. 



Wings of Obsidian said:


> The main trick behind all this was trying to figure how not to have like a hundred tiny little lights in the axe (God forbid if one breaks of shorts right?) So Matt devised a cool little way of reflecting and refracting light inside the guitar that could illuminate the whole thing on the inside and make it look bright as can be around the body design, in the fretboard inlay, and in the fretboard markers. (Beats that cheap pain/inlay/glow
> stuff he uses).


I'm sorry, but like Pikka, I don't see many special things that could prevent this design to be shown. And this particular point is not so common, but not gorundbreaking. And to make a luminous inlay, side dots and everything, obviously you don"t use billion of leds, but just one a bit more powerfull and optical fibre. That the easiest, cheapest, safest way to luminate inlay/side dots, and that's what will be on both the 8 strings and the Soloist I'm building. And I didn't invent anything, it's used for some time now. 



Wings of Obsidian said:


> Last thing really that was a major pain in the ass that I take pride in is the "monkey switch" design (that is what I call it as a joke xD). It utilizes momentary reed switches that interact with the rare earth magnets placed over top of them by sliding the magnets around on the little tracts outlined in the body for them. (Look at the upper horn).


I think it's too complicated for what it is. I'm sure you can do something identical with standard simple switches (but I don't understand exactly the aim of such a switch?).



Wings of Obsidian said:


> We were working on a way for the lights to interact at various time when the strings were hit (having them sort of "sense" the vibration and then turn on the follow the vibration, ya know?) But every idea we had risked creating a magnetic field that could interfere with the pickups.


Kinda easy, I think. There's many way to sense vibration, and the 1st one I'd use would be a piezo stuck under the bridge that will sense vibrations of strings. Then, with a filter, you just let the highest peaks pass through to detect the "attack", and you activate your leds then. I'm far from an electronician, but it doesn't seem so hard to me. You can also try to look at the commercial systems that change lights depending on sound or else. I'm sure it can be put inside a guitar, using the signal that goes to the amp.



Wings of Obsidian said:


> Like I have said before, Matt was the only guy who could do my crazy-ass design...which sucks...because I really wanted to work with him. But he just blew me off and refuses to communicate back with me.  (Hey, money is in hand, man? Does that work? Negative.)


That sucks pretty hard... Either he says no at the very beginning, or if he stops during the conception process, then he should be very very humble and explain WHY he doesn't want to go further... 
Sorry for you and your project, dude.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Wings, I can think of at least one other luthier who'd build what you want and do it right. Only thing is it'll cost ya a good bit more.


----------



## jonajon91

ormsby guitars said:


> The intonation has been incorrect on EVERY SINGLE Etherial that we've seen final photos of. Including the owner's demo videos. This is fundamental stuff, that every builder should pride themselves on.



Have you got enough picks on 'EVERY SINGLE' etherial to solidly say that? We have already covered that the intonation is out on this because of a funny tuning.


----------



## Necromagnon

jonajon91 said:


> Have you got enough picks on 'EVERY SINGLE' etherial to solidly say that? We have already covered that the intonation is out on this because of a funny tuning.


Sadly we've seen enough Etherial to say that it's not yet to be called "a professional build". 

And I would trust someone who put out tons of guitars fro years now (don't know how long exactly) with no defect (at least visible on the pics posted everywhere) than a young luthier that called himslef a pro and post pics with tons of easily seen flaws.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necromagnon said:


> I think it's too complicated for what it is. I'm sure you can do something identical with standard simple switches (but I don't understand exactly the aim of such a switch?).



It sounds complicated. But on paper it isn't. - also do remember that I said absolutely nothing about being "groundbreaking". I just said "unique" and that Matt didn't want me to share my design info and specs. (But since he decided to unfriend me and quit chatting with me...)



Necromagnon said:


> Kinda easy, I think. There's many way to sense vibration, and the 1st one I'd use would be a piezo stuck under the bridge that will sense vibrations of strings. Then, with a filter, you just let the highest peaks pass through to detect the "attack", and you activate your leds then. I'm far from an electronician, but it doesn't seem so hard to me. You can also try to look at the commercial systems that change lights depending on sound or else. I'm sure it can be put inside a guitar, using the signal that goes to the amp.



THESE sound like a killer ideas. I did actually look into how an expensive stereo system has those horizontal EQ lights on the display and how they like bounce up and down and change color with the music and rhythm. (You know what I'm talking about.) I was looking for a way to see if I could out that technology in a guitar.

Aside from that, the piezo idea seems really cool. Matt would've never thought of that. (I'd like to find a way to test it though.)



Necromagnon said:


> That sucks pretty hard... Either he says no at the very beginning, or if he stops during the conception process, then he should be very very humble and explain WHY he doesn't want to go further...
> Sorry for you and your project, dude.



Pretty much we had it all done. I had to take a few months to gather the dial amounts of cash (college tuition, payments, rents, bill, insurance, etc. Are all major bitches -.-') but I finally got it and then he refuses to reply. I mean, dude, I have questions to ask and then I tell you I have cash in hand and need the Paypal info and you refuse to reply. -.-' come on...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Wings, I can think of at least one other luthier who'd build what you want and do it right. Only thing is it'll cost ya a good bit more.



Hook a brotha up.


----------



## Pikka Bird

jonajon91 said:


> We have already covered that the intonation is out on this because of a funny tuning.



We've covered that it might be used as an excuse, yeah. I still think the lightest string looks totally ludicrously off, even for crazy tunings.



Wings of Obsidian said:


> ...Matt didn't want me to share my design info and specs.



_He_ doesn't want _you_ to share _your_ design? You know what, that's not his call to make. He opted out (does anybody know why?) and now he's going to just sit on it and keep everything in the dark, effectively keeping you from ever going to any other builder with the idea you really want to see turned into reality? Fuck that.



Necromagnon said:


> You can also try to look at the commercial systems that change lights depending on sound or else.



If ya knows what's good fer ya!


----------



## Danukenator

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Hook a brotha up.



 20$ says I can guess who it is...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Danukenator said:


> 20$ says I can guess who it is...



RAN! o.o

....wait no....

ORMSBY! O.O

....wait....I'd like to buy a vowel! o.o'


----------



## Hollowway

There was a guitar that had fiber optics running all over the body that I was going to link, but I can't find it. I could have sworn it was from Chellee, so I'm going to keep looking...

EDIT: Found it! Wings, check this out: http://chellee.com/site/Model_I_Gallery/Pages/08017.html

And here it is lit up:


----------



## downburst82

the light idea reminds me just a little bit of this guitar


----------



## Hollowway

We need Bulb to order a crazy light-up guitar so everyone starts making them and we can all buy one!


----------



## jonajon91

Pikka Bird said:


> We've covered that it might be used as an excuse, yeah. I still think the lightest string looks totally ludicrously off, even for crazy tunings.



Actually, thinking about it. The guitar might not be set up at all. He might have just thrown some strings on to show the customer.


----------



## patata

Hollowway said:


> We need Bulb to order a crazy light-up guitar so everyone starts making them and we can all buy one!



I'm pretty sure that if Misha buys one,EVERYONE will stop talking shit about them and start worshipping them without any on hands experience,just like every brand Bulb got a guitar from.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Nope. I'll still pull 'em apart.


----------



## Necromagnon

capoeiraesp said:


> Nope. I'll still pull 'em apart.


Same here. 
Not to say that I don't give a s*** about what Misha plays/owns/drinks/whatever does.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> I'm pretty sure that if Misha buys one,EVERYONE will stop talking shit about them and start worshipping them without any on hands experience,just like every brand Bulb got a guitar from.



And how many of those customs does he still actually own? And how many does he actually play since his deal with Jackson?


----------



## Riley

Wings of Obsidian said:


> And how many of those customs does he still actually own? And how many does he actually play since his deal with Jackson?



His Jackson thing is not exclusive...


----------



## Danukenator

patata said:


> I'm pretty sure that if Misha buys one,EVERYONE will stop talking shit about them and start worshipping them without any on hands experience,just like every brand Bulb got a guitar from.



LOL, why is it that people think EVERYONE here worships Misha? He has good taste in gear and posts a lot of porn. Most people here don't take his word as sacred but as good advice. And...Misha would probably never say these were amazing guitars


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Danukenator said:


> LOL, why is it that people think EVERYONE here worships Misha? He has good taste in gear and posts a lot of porn. Most people here don't take his word as sacred but as good advice. And...Misha would probably never say these were amazing guitars



Dan and me must be the only two that DON'T worship him... -.-' 

(The guy's "standard of amazing quality" is probably wayyy above ours since a lot of custom stuff are his "everyday, mediocre" axes. )


----------



## Churchie777

Did someone mention Misha?????


----------



## jonajon91




----------



## Insinfier

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Dan and me must be the only two that DON'T worship him... -.-'



You're not alone.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Misha probably doesn't dig the whole tribal tats look.


----------



## patata

capoeiraesp said:


> Misha probably doesn't dig the whole tribal tats look = no interest.



not everything has to be tribal tats looking.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Rob Walden of Exotype just posted a picture on his Facebook and said that he is sending his Etherial back out to Matt in Australia for repairs.


----------



## Rick

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Rob Walden of Exotype just posted a picture on his Facebook and said that he is sending his Etherial back out to Matt in Australia for repairs.



Oops.


----------



## RickSchneider

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Rob Walden of Exotype just posted a picture on his Facebook and said that he is sending his Etherial back out to Matt in Australia for repairs.



Was the picture of his guitar/what went wrong? I just tried to go find said picture on his facebook but I can't find anything like that


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RickSchneider said:


> Was the picture of his guitar/what went wrong? I just tried to go find said picture on his facebook but I can't find anything like that



Check again.


----------



## RickSchneider

Whether or not it's restricted to the people who are friends with him - I can't see it 

Well anyways, merry christmas!


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I can't find it on there either. Maybe he deleted it? Can you do that on FB?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I can't find it on there either. Maybe he deleted it? Can you do that on FB?



Never mind what I said. I just checked back on the post.

Back on Halloween, Rob got into a car wreck and the guitar was in the car with him and it suffered some damage. So he is hoping Matt can repair it.

All is well I guess.


----------



## Metal_Webb

It'd be interesting to get some closeups, but in this photo that's some tidy looking artwork.


----------



## RickSchneider

Does it look like the treble side of the neck pickup ring slightly sits over the horn bevel, or is that just me? Eh, irregardless of what it looks like it's impossible to tell without seeing it, anyway. It does look pretty good in terms of the design/art!


----------



## jonajon91

I think I preferred it white.


----------



## Churchie777

^^ Do you mean from the other picture? because it is white she's just glowing in the dark


----------



## Riley

Didn't account for the bevel and had to move the pickup as far as he could and it still overlaps...and looks terrible. If this goon would have someone competent build the guitars and just do the finishing work himself...these would be great for those that are into this sort of design.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I believe the artwork is done externally/outsourced. I like the design though. 
Pity about the pickup ring. Judging by the initial routes I'm guessing they were going to be direct mount.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RickSchneider said:


> Does it look like the treble side of the neck pickup ring slightly sits over the horn bevel, or is that just me?



It does.....how the hell do you .... that up? (You measure it first before cutting the body, pendejo. -.-')


----------



## Riley

capoeiraesp said:


> I believe the artwork is done externally/outsourced. I like the design though.
> Pity about the pickup ring. Judging by the initial routes I'm guessing they were going to be direct mount.




Wait...so this guy doesn't even do the artwork? He just sloppily builds guitars(ish) and has somebody slap crazy tribal crap on them?


----------



## jonajon91

capoeiraesp said:


> I believe the artwork is done externally/outsourced.



How do know this? I'm know he does all the inlays and most of the graphics so why would he have outsourced this?


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

capoeiraesp said:


> I believe the artwork is done externally/outsourced.



Where would that info have come from? I get updates from him regularly on not only my bass but occasionally other builds that show him masking off the graphics and doing it all in the same spray booth.


----------



## ormsby guitars

He does the masked off artwork inhouse. Designs like this (the space stuff, etc) are actually printed on vinyl and glued to the top, then lacquered over.

Its the same material they use for wrapping cars with removable graphics. The stuff that only has a two year life, before shrinking and pealing.


----------



## RickSchneider

ormsby guitars said:


> Its the same material they use for wrapping cars with removable graphics. The stuff that only has a two year life, before shrinking and pealing.



Before I start this, I must add - there is no animosity in what I'm saying here, but instead I'm curious considering what I've seen you say:

Perry if my memory serves me, you spoke to Skervesen guitars to correct their CNC holes in their superstrat bodies right? They took your advice and worked thanks to your knowledge to produce a more perfected version of what was previously offered. (If my memory is correct.)

You seem to have a lot of issues with Etherial build quality, some things which are just sloppy (some routes and inlays etc.), while other things (see my quote) seem to be design choices which could possibly be avoided if approached differently. Have you ever reached out to Matt at Etherial to offer assistance in bettering his work, or even just spoken at all? 

I don't ask to try to validate your posts in this thread, but you seem to be a person who could really help - as you can so easily identify these issues and flaws


----------



## capoeiraesp

jonajon91 said:


> How do know this? I'm know he does all the inlays and most of the graphics so why would he have outsourced this?



Here ya go.
https://www.facebook.com/EtherialGuitars/posts/469654956405251

And here's a link on their page.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...950046.-2207520000.1388193049.&type=3&theater

Even without having to link to those posts I could absolutely say those are vinyl wraps. I used to work with a good friend who owns a sign writing business and he did stuff like this all the time. The machinery needed to do it is very expensive.


----------



## ormsby guitars

RickSchneider said:


> Before I start this, I must add - there is no animosity in what I'm saying here, but instead I'm curious considering what I've seen you say:
> 
> Perry if my memory serves me, you spoke to Skervesen guitars to correct their CNC holes in their superstrat bodies right? They took your advice and worked thanks to your knowledge to produce a more perfected version of what was previously offered. (If my memory is correct.)
> 
> You seem to have a lot of issues with Etherial build quality, some things which are just sloppy (some routes and inlays etc.), while other things (see my quote) seem to be design choices which could possibly be avoided if approached differently. Have you ever reached out to Matt at Etherial to offer assistance in bettering his work, or even just spoken at all?
> 
> I don't ask to try to validate your posts in this thread, but you seem to be a person who could really help - as you can so easily identify these issues and flaws



Thanks for asking!

It isnt my job to stand over Etherial and kick his arse into shape. It's his business, and his quality control levels that he chooses to accept.

However, I do have a personal issue with ANY luthier putting out shoddy work. It directly effects MY business. If someone gets a dodgy custom, they are most likely to never order another custom made guitar ever again. Whilst they may have purchased any number of brands, they might one day have come to me... and destroying their confidence with a previous purchase that wasnt up to spec, hurts ALL luthiers. And it might not be that guy that doesnt order from a luthier again, it might be his friend, or someone on a forum looking at pics. 

Skervessen took my comments on board, and contacted me directly. They stepped up. They chose to improve. Massive props for that, as most would take offense, and react with aggression.

I run building classes, both basic and advanced, Ive announced month long 'luthier residentials', single day setup classes, luthier mentoring programs, and ANYONE that has ever called me will know Im more than happy to help anyone in this industry. But, what Im not going to do is call some guy out of the blue, and say "hey man, I noticed your work is pretty average, want to pay me to help you improve?". The first step to improving, is knowing you need to improve. 

We are NOT in competition against each other. I dont see Skervy, or Blackmachine, or Etherial, or whoever, as competition. They are peers. We are a combined force against Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc. If some are not up to the standard, then we are all dragged down.

I also firmly believe you either 'have it', or you dont. I worked with a guy trying to get him up to spec for two years. He didnt 'have it'. It cost me a tonne of work, heartache, and a friendship.


----------



## RickSchneider

Fair enough, and thanks for the quick response! Those points totally make sense and I do hope that Matt maintains a higher standard in future. He seemingly has improved in the past, but it is worrying that glaring faults can still be spotted in current builds..

Still - 'tis the season to be jolly! I hope everyone here had a merry christmas!


----------



## ramses

ormsby guitars said:


> ... If someone gets a dodgy custom, they are most likely to never order another custom made guitar ever again. Whilst they may have purchased any number of brands, they might one day have come to me... and destroying their confidence with a previous purchase that wasnt up to spec, hurts ALL luthiers. And it might not be that guy that doesnt order from a luthier again, it might be his friend, or someone on a forum looking at pics ...



Sorry for going off-topic, but I need to say that I'm happy to find out that Ormsby gets it. I will be ordering from you in the future (as soon as I'm done with my two current custom orders) !!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

ormsby guitars said:


> I run building classes, both basic and advanced, Ive announced month long 'luthier residentials', single day setup classes, luthier mentoring programs, and ANYONE that has ever called me will know Im more than happy to help anyone in this industry.



That settles it.......I'm moving to Aussieland! \(^-^)/


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, that post by Perry is spot on. I have a few customs on order right now, but basically I am scared to death about ordering from most people because I have been burned on more than one occasion by a dishonest/shoddy luthier. So I have 5 customs in my possession that I ordered: Two were horrible and took forever, one was overdue and screwed up, but I got a discount, and one was great, and one had a few cosmetic flaws but played well. (And then BRJ has $600 of mine I won't likely see ever again, which is a 6th order.) So yeah, these shoddy luthiers are directly affecting my desire to order again, which is hurting any other potential luthier out there. So at first it appears that Perry should be minding his own business, rather than criticizing other luthiers. But he IS minding his own business - and soon to be lack of business if he doesn't stand up for his profession. It would be uncalled for to jump in and start criticizing for competitive reasons, but he has a vested interest in keeping us GAS ridden potential customers happy.

And amen to the "either have it or you don't" statement. I see CONSTANTLY on here that Brand X is under new management, or has hired new people, or is improving, or turning things around, etc. Bottom line is they saw the product go out with major flaws, and chose not to stop it. That's not a talent issue. That's a character and ethics issue, and no amount of practice or luthiery school is going to fix that.


----------



## jonajon91

Another post


> 27 stainless steel frets
> Gloss body, satin neck, full specs coming...
> Kahler 2300 tremolo with steel saddles
> BKP Pickups Blackhawk set


----------



## patata

I dig Risto's more.


----------



## RickSchneider

Some Etherial action with Tomas from Modern Day Babylon!


----------



## Synesthesia

I want to preface by saying that this is not a criticism, Im genuinely curious. I know people can get a little touchy with etherial. Also, this might be answered in some of the other etherial threads but I havent seen it.

Anyways, It seems from looking at his carbon fiber work that hes layering it over the form and thats it? Does it work that way? I always thought that the form had to be placed in a vacuum press or something to compress the CF. I remember reading that if the carbon fiber wasnt compressed and the epoxy didnt really infuse into it that the form doesnt achieve the strength that CF is supposed to have. Are the pictures after he has removed it from a vacuum or does laying it over the guitar work? I ask because I would like to try some CF and from what Ive seen this doesnt really work for achieving high tensile strength


----------



## Necromagnon

Synesthesia said:


> Anyways, It seems from looking at his carbon fiber work that hes layering it over the form and thats it? Does it work that way? I always thought that the form had to be placed in a vacuum press or something to compress the CF. I remember reading that if the carbon fiber wasnt compressed and the epoxy didnt really infuse into it that the form doesnt achieve the strength that CF is supposed to have. Are the pictures after he has removed it from a vacuum or does laying it over the guitar work? I ask because I would like to try some CF and from what Ive seen this doesnt really work for achieving high tensile strength


You should better look at vids on youtube and so on. There's plenty of how to. In the case of Etherial, it's just layering above a wood structure as far as I've see it, and the CF is intended just for aesthetics.

About th strength, I'm not really sure that vacuum is the answer. I think that the matter is the permeability of CF reinforcement, and the vacuum helps the matrix to get everywhere inside the CF, while in air, it's harder to obtain this result. But you can also inject the matrix under pressure, the result will be (almost) the same. But there's plenty of other problematics with injecting polymere matrix into textile reinforcement. 
(probably I should stop to write message at work, it biases my speaking... )


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)

This will be the last time I post in this thread.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Then he owes you a refund. Plain and simple.


----------



## BouhZik

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



WAT???

Wow................


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



That's awesomely childish. Couldn't imagine over 20yo people still doing this sort of s**t.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

ormsby guitars said:


> Then he owes you a refund. Plain and simple.





Wait, who gets the refund?


----------



## ormsby guitars

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Wait, who gets the refund?



I assumed, based on what Wings said, he was a client. But thankfully, that isnt the case.


----------



## TemjinStrife

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



Sounds like some winning business practices. 

Does he actually have any of your money?


----------



## technomancer

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



As if the craftsmanship alone weren't reason enough to stay far far away...


----------



## capoeiraesp

Wings, your views are justified. Just look at this crap.


----------



## jonajon91

We don't talk about that build.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Why not?


----------



## TemjinStrife

Wait, are those actually screwed on?

Also, eugh, those pickup routes...


----------



## Alberto7

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



Aaaannd let me go get the popcorn.


----------



## Alberto7

capoeiraesp said:


> Why not?



Also, this. I don't know anything about that build. Some context would be appreciated.

EDIT: I just noticed something from that photo, and TemjinStrife also pointed it out... are those bridge pieces fixed? Maybe they're just placed there to have an image of what it will look like when finished. Man, Etherial are great at taking some ambiguous shots...


----------



## Mr_Metal_575

That bridge is completely wrong.What a shame!


----------



## capoeiraesp

If the bridge is like that I bet there are a lot more things wrong with it.


----------



## abandonist

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



Don't be coy, and don't bow to anyone trying to silence anything. If someone's being a dickhead, call them out. Boo-hoo to someone pointing out bullshit.

Also: Why are you still in contact with Matt? Take your design and move on.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

abandonist said:


> Don't be coy, and don't bow to anyone trying to silence anything. If someone's being a dickhead, call them out. Boo-hoo to someone pointing out bullshit.
> 
> Also: Why are you still in contact with Matt? Take your design and move on.




I am NOT in contact with him (yes, I am aware I am breaking my word here). - He utterly ditched me and refused to answer any of my correspondence at all. So believe me, we are not in communication whatsoever. - I just feel like shit is getting out of hand when I am contacted on Facebook and a guy (endorsed Etherial artist whom also "supposedly" is a "brother" to me) and he tries to give me a kick in the ass to stop my bashing. Fact is, I'm not bashing, I'm just tearing apart things like you all on here.

With that said, need I post pictures of my friend's white Sakura build for everyone to tear apart?


----------



## asher

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



Since he _already_ won't talk to you, what the hell kind of leverage is he supposed to have here?


----------



## capoeiraesp

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I am NOT in contact with him (yes, I am aware I am breaking my word here). - He utterly ditched me and refused to answer any of my correspondence at all. So believe me, we are not in communication whatsoever.
> 
> With that said, need I post pictures of my friend's white Sakura build for everyone to tear apart?



YES!


----------



## jonajon91

Oh shit. This build was a mess, I can't believe it made it out of the shop. I'm guessing the customer got some kind of refund or re-build?
Also wings, that really sucks man. It's strange because it really does not sound like Matt. I have spoken with him a few times and he seems great. If these pictures of the white guitar come up for critique again it will be another major blow to etherials reputation. Also up there (^) where I said we don't speak of this build, I was joking, perhaps i'm not so good at it.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Time to put these rumors about Etherial's quality problems to rest. We've seen so many builds on here. We've read so much stuff and listened to many comments. Now, let's check out another build!

Alright ladies, let's go! *raises boxing gloves*

Pretty nice looking axe ain't it?







How would you like it though, when you paid an extremely LARGE sum of money for a custom build.....you FINALLY receive it and take it out of the case.....ready to witness its glory.....and you find this.....






Cringe-worthy and heartbreaking. The guitar was well-packaged, but apparently not well enough. Rather carelessly in my opinion. Would've taken one hell of a drop thanks to all the butterfingers package-handlers and soccer players around the world who work for the postal system or for postal couriers.

Let's get a better view of it. Keep in mind, this was a rather current build, since Etherial has been doing so darn good as of lately.






Going in closer, let's look at the obvious...those upper frets... the scalloping is poor, making them unplayable, and there is white PAINT trapped underneath the metal fretwire and UNDER THE CLEAR COAT on the fretboard.






Moving back down to the pickup.....wait.....where'd the pickup go? It sunk down! - This is because the pickup mounting screws were pretty much coming out of the backside of the guitar body!






And if you look closely, you can see that there is dirt and grime (even maybe a hair?) trapped underneath the clear coat. On a white guitar, this is quite visible, guys! 











There is a bit of noticeable gunk and glue around the wood binding too.











Speaking of the binding...anyone notice how it just randomly drops off? The little engine that thought it could make it to the end of the horn just couldn't make it...






If we keep going back, we'll see that the recessed input jack isn't even centered.....at all..... The simplest of things.....messed up.











Bad picture quality, but some of the markers on the side of the neck aren't even aligned with the frets.






A closer look reveals how sketchy (and dirty) some of the markers are.






Continuing up, underneath the nut and the fretboard is quite a bit of glue or filler paint. It looks like the neck (where the fingerboard is supposed to lay) was cut wrong and Matt splotched in some filler paint or glue to try to cover it up without having to cut a new neck or adjust anything.






Let's take a step back to admire the back of this beauty before we dive back in...






Carbon fiber wrap on the neck and headstock is pretty cool. Looks kind of sketchy in areas though for the designs.











And lastly, I feel the need to address the red glow material Matt used. What in the world? It can't be paint can it? It looks rough and coarse and even feels so through the clear coat. You can almost "FEEL" how rough it is just by looking at the pictures, right? TEXTURE! Reminds me of a rock.....like a pumice stone or sandpaper, ya know?


























The white Sakura 8-string build.






And there we have it! Luthiery at it's finest, courtesy of Etherial! Enjoy!


----------



## capoeiraesp

Thank you for having the guts to share this.

As a comparison, this is my Emperion http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/125533-ngd-emperion-7-scorpius-shocker.html It cost me $700. I'd say my Emperion was better.

Was a refund or rebuild offered?


----------



## Alberto7

... 
This makes me want to scream.

And it's such a shame, because the concept for the design is beautiful, almost emotional. Properly executed, that would have been one of my favorite guitars ever (aside from, perhaps, the shape of the guitar... but I digress). This build irks me more than most other custom guitar trainwrecks that I've seen on this forum... also add in the fact that I had faith in this brand at some point. Whatever faith I had left 5 minutes ago is now completely gone.

Truly a trainwreck of a build.


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

Alberto7 said:


> Also, this. I don't know anything about that build. Some context would be appreciated.
> 
> EDIT: I just noticed something from that photo, and TemjinStrife also pointed it out... are those bridge pieces fixed? Maybe they're just placed there to have an image of what it will look like when finished. Man, Etherial are great at taking some ambiguous shots...



I just joined because I had to comment on this build.
Yes the pieces are fixed, and yes, the whole build was sloppy junk.
Custom build for a good friend of mine, I was in the very early stages of a build, design stages, I was so amped to see this thing, then so amped to have my own build, until I put my hands on this thing.
I was horribly crushed.
Just sloppy.


----------



## asher

Man, that white guitar is a shame, because (agreed on body style) the rest of the design is awesome. With another red that back graphic would be gorgeous.

... take it to Dylan!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> Thank you for having the guts to share this.
> 
> As a comparison, this is my Emperion http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/125533-ngd-emperion-7-scorpius-shocker.html It cost me $700. I'd say my Emperion was better.
> 
> Was a refund or rebuild offered?



Matt straight up told my friend that from here on out he could not and would not offer my friend any further building or luthiery services. (Just a cop out because he was afraid of having hell raised against him..)

No rebuild. Not sure about a refund.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Alberto7 said:


> And it's such a shame, because the concept for the design is beautiful, almost emotional.



Being a kid who raised himself on Japanese culture! I love the concept. Looking at the back, I can almost feel the wind, smell the Sakura blossoms, and hear the wind chimes churning softly in the wind and blending with the sound of a string being plucked smoothly somewhere.....

Then I look at the flaws and my Japanese fantasy is shattered.

I might actually ask my buddy if I could "steal" his Sakura concept for one of my own future builds if I ever get established faith in any luthier ever again and decide to go with a custom.


----------



## Alberto7

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Being a kid who raised himself on Japanese culture! I love the concept. Looking at the back, I can almost feel the wind, smell the Sakura blossoms, and hear the wind chimes churning softly in the wind and blending with the sound of a string being plucked smoothly somewhere.....
> 
> Then I look at the flaws and my Japanese fantasy is shattered.



These two paragraphs tell EXACTLY how and why I felt so mortified upon watching the pictures of that horrible build... 



Wings of Obsidian said:


> I might actually ask my buddy if I could "steal" his Sakura concept for one of my own future builds if I ever get established faith in any luthier ever again and decide to go with a custom.



I wouldn't use the exact design, but, having seen a couple of sakura-themed guitars already, I definitely want to have my own at some point. But on an acoustic. Gotta start saving for that Matsuda...


----------



## jonajon91

You said that this was a current build. There are pictures of the finished neck on facebook ten months ago. I'm not going to sit here and defend the un-defendable a lot of that is unaceptable. About that red stone though, surely the customer would have had to ask for that or at least known what the material was going into the build, if he was not happy with that then he should have looked into his specs a little more.


----------



## capoeiraesp

No he shouldn't have, that's the role of the luthier, or in this case backyard builder. I'm sure everyone who's had a successful custom build would say that their builder was able to answer any questions about materials used in their build.
That stuff isn't stone either.

It's the luthier's role to advise what will and won't work for the build. If a luthier does not understand the basics of the materials he is using, he shouldn't be using them. I wonder what the properties of the woods he uses are? We need to find someone knowledgable who knows of these woods and why Etherial is the only one using them?


----------



## Alberto7

^ I can't remember for the life of me who said it and when, but I'm pretty sure that quite a few pages back in this thread it was mentioned that no one used those woods for quite specific reasons. I have an idea of who might have said it, but I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths.


----------



## downburst82

^that would be the Awesome Mr Ormsby


----------



## Alberto7

That's what I thought.


----------



## darren

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I might actually ask my buddy if I could "steal" his Sakura concept for one of my own future builds if I ever get established faith in any luthier ever again and decide to go with a custom.



Sakura


----------



## capoeiraesp

^That is how it's done!


----------



## abandonist

For 28k it damn well better be!


----------



## Watty

abandonist said:


> For 28k it damn well better be!



That's what I thought too....until I saw the sale was to benefit the tsunami victims. If it were 28k without that qualifier.....yikes/vomit.


----------



## capoeiraesp

You guys read how much gold was used on it too, yeah?


----------



## jonajon91

Yeah, that has to be THE worst etherial build out there, by a long way. I think that he uses jahra and bluegum because they are both native woods to Australia or New Zealand or wherever he is.


----------



## Helstormau

jonajon91 said:


> Yeah, that has to be THE worst etherial build out there, by a long way. I think that he uses jahra and bluegum because they are both native woods to Australia or New Zealand or wherever he is.



Native to Australia, but still shit guitar wood


----------



## jonajon91

I have heard the guitars and I cant really hear any increment on the tones, though I don't know much about tones.


----------



## abandonist

I don't believe wood tonality makes an appreciable difference for electric instruments. I'm only after structural stability.


----------



## Necromagnon

jonajon91 said:


> I have heard the guitars and I cant really hear any increment on the tones, though I don't know much about tones.


Listen (in blindtest) to guitars made of CF and made of mahogany, and try to tell me the difference. 

About this white Sakura build, it's crazy... It's even worst than my 1st refinish on a cheap plywood chinese RR. 
I like that, because when I look to this kind of build, I know that I could call myself a "professional luthier" and steal money to many people.


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

Alberto7 said:


> ...
> This makes me want to scream.
> 
> And it's such a shame, because the concept for the design is beautiful, almost emotional. Properly executed, that would have been one of my favorite guitars ever (aside from, perhaps, the shape of the guitar... but I digress). This build irks me more than most other custom guitar trainwrecks that I've seen on this forum... also add in the fact that I had faith in this brand at some point. Whatever faith I had left 5 minutes ago is now completely gone.
> 
> Truly a trainwreck of a build.



This.

It's like somebody with the most beautiful symphonies playing in their mind, but their unfortunately mangled hands coupled with a degenerated nervous system and a set of instruments that include a horribly maimed cat, a bent fork, a cactus, and a screaming banshee, means these beautiful symphonies will never make the transition from concept to reality.

It would also appear that Matt needs to learn some humility, step up and evolve from this crap, and conduct himself like a true artisan/luthier.
I have no idea how he can ship guitars like this to people.


----------



## AwDeOh

That's a flat-out shocker.. I'm surprised US Customs didn't confiscate and destroy it.


----------



## capoeiraesp

That pic of the 'fretboard' reminds of a crackhead's teeth.


----------



## MJS

Wings of Obsidian said:


>


At first I thought, "hmm... that's actually quite impressive," but then I remembered that this thread isn't titled "Just spent $12 on materials at Home Depot and tried to build my first guitar while drunk and blindfolded."


----------



## ormsby guitars

Fret spacing looks accurate. :/


----------



## Walterson

ormsby guitars said:


> Fret spacing looks accurate. :/



Recrowning of the frets does not....


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

ormsby guitars said:


> Fret spacing looks accurate. :/



Looks about right, that's where you put your ciggie when you're playing, yes? It's a cigarette holder for the more intense passages .......passages that you play on another guitar after you put this one down


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Yeah, that has to be THE worst etherial build out there, by a long way. I think that he uses jahra and bluegum because they are both native woods to Australia or New Zealand or wherever he is.



Matt uses a slew of woods that are native to Australia since only Australians get access to them. Then he tries to sell the woods (since us non-Aussies haven't heard of them), to make the guitars sound more exotic and enticing. 

I mean, come on, Redgum, Bluegum, Jarrah, Blackbutt, etc...

Yet, Perry Ormsby (and one other Australian luthier I know) don't use those woods. At all. Weird... Maybe they're not the "best" for guitar construction for some reason?... I'm not a botanist or builder here, so someone will have to explain this for me.

Also: anyone notice that when the pickup mounting screws dropped in the body, there is no way to adjust the EMG's height? (In order to get the screws back up to where they "should be", meaning not almost sticking out the backside of the guitar, you probably need to go in the control cavity to fish them out if you can't reach them from the topside face of the guitar. But I see no control cavity on the back..........only the little panel on the side down by the input jack. I can imagine that must complicate things quite a bit. Unless someone can please explain my theory as being fallacious here.)


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

prettyordinaryplayer said:


> This.
> 
> a set of instruments that include a horribly maimed cat, a bent fork, a cactus, and a screaming banshee


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

ormsby guitars said:


> Fret spacing looks accurate. :/



I could literally FEEL the sarcasm with this one like a punch. 

But I was thinking the same thing, Senor Ormsby.


----------



## sikapple

i have one of these custom etherials too. lets have a close look at mine as well.

with my custom build here, i had an overall theme i was after - the white Lamborghini Gallardo.
you can kind of see the lines and wheel of the gallardo idea in the inlays.
the white with black binding and hardware to keep with the theme. 
the CGi drawings Matt did were pretty much perfect.
no doubt he has a talent for unique design, ideas and photoshop / illustrator skills. 

i'm not here to frizzle fry Matt personally - i am simply here to show the guitar i got from him.
make your own judgement and opinions based on the photos. if you want the detailed specs,
facts, and my view on it including the issues that had to be rectified within the 24 hours of receiving 
it to actually make it playable. . . just ask me, and i will write it up when i have some spare time. 

here is my custom etherial. . . 

(this is the case it shipped to me in...with this little magical packaging foam to protect the headstock)


----------



## sikapple




----------



## sikapple




----------



## Necromagnon

I'm somewhere between:


and








Wings of Obsidian said:


> Matt uses a slew of woods that are native to Australia since only Australians get access to them. Then he tries to sell the woods (since us non-Aussies haven't heard of them), to make the guitars sound more exotic and enticing.


Isn't it what we call the _Gibson's Syndrome_?


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

You can really see his attention to what his mum was cooking for dinner, because sure as shhhhhhugar, his attention wasn't on the task at hand.
Where do you start with this? 
I've seen and "played" this "guitar", I don't need the photos, but others do, especially those that are thinking of parting with their hard earned dollars for what is essentially a 3rd rate build.
"3rd rate?!?!" I hear the Etherial fanboys squeal incredulously, yes, I'm not mincing words, it's 3rd rate, because in the grand scheme of things, and I'm oversimplifying, there's:

first rate guitars, which are beautifully crafted by an artist that treated the job like it was the only guitar he would be judged on and remembered by, plays like butter, sounds like honey 

Second rate guitars, which are more like Warhol as opposed to Da Vinci, not quite the same skill level, still somewhat visually pleasing, maybe a bit more accessible, but it's still art, it's not wagyu fillet with asparagus and red wine jus, it's a hamburger, it's a "go to"

Third rate guitars, maybe use it as a prop in film, but in the background, no close ups, because it's practically useless as a functional instrument, and that's the nicest thing I could say about it, but while I'm on this theme of comparing things to food, it's sh!t sandwich


----------



## sikapple




----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

The sandpaper marks mentioned above, are very real, I've never seen anything like it, not even on a $299 guitar.
While I'm talking cheap guitars, I played one that cost about $350, made in China, and it played and looked better than this build.


----------



## Allealex

god please make him stop taking orders


----------



## TemjinStrife

The problem with this situation is that plenty of people *knew* about this, and didn't say anything or sought to minimize it or cover it up.

Let's learn from this. Don't .... your fellow gearwhores to try to make a quick buck on resale, or because you like the Photoshop mockup of a guitar. Don't make excuses for someone to "build up his skills" while delivering completely unacceptable product.


----------



## Devotee

Right in the face of people not loving Etherial stuff. ^________^


----------



## patata

Unacceptable BUT

This is one sexy guitar.


----------



## isispelican

this is sad and it needs to stop


----------



## Preacher

They look pretty, and I figured from seeing Noyens 9 they were a unique custom build company. I guess unique is one way of describing some of these. Its not something daft like they work really well with carbon fibre and not wood or something is it?


----------



## asher

He should stick to the design and CF maybe - not even the inlays, most of those look awful (that lambo seriously looks like ....ing sharpie) - and partner with someone to actually build the things for him.

Because, while I'm not a huge fan of the over-the-top tribal and the excess sharp cuts and stuff, those are all valid design decisions and certainly look unique, and that's totally cool. His ideas are good enough I think to warrant someone who can actually build worth a damn.


----------



## Churchie777

Just wanna say thanks for this thread fellas makes me high five myself for pulling out of a build with Matt that even more assuring, i listend to that gut feeling when going back and forth with him and as i seen his builds come out everyone of them sent alarm bells off in my head


----------



## BouhZik

Devotee said:


> Right in the face of people not loving Etherial stuff. ^________^



I remember this sentence (and the smilley), but it was not in this thread! 
Where are you Omega???


----------



## AwDeOh

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Matt uses a slew of woods that are native to Australia since only Australians get access to them. Then he tries to sell the woods (since us non-Aussies haven't heard of them), to make the guitars sound more exotic and enticing.
> 
> I mean, come on, Redgum, Bluegum, Jarrah, Blackbutt, etc...



Pro-tip from a native - we have 1000's of amazing native woods - every single one of them is Eucalyptus, sold under a different name.


----------



## BlackMastodon

That inlay on the lambo guitar. 

Both of those builds are just sad. How do you honestly justify sending out a "finished" product with a broken tone knob that has a piece of plastic jammed in there to hold it in place, and one that scratches against the finish on top of that.

I am so glad that I've been a part of this forum long enough to see which luthiers are still reliable and worth contacting if/when I want to get a custom.

Just....bleh 

My condolences to the people that gave this man their money.


----------



## Alberto7

Right, the last two sets of photos from those builds are right on par with some of SSO's worst custom build nightmare threads. I defended Matt at one point, and now I feel silly about it for not wanting to see what was actually going on with all those builds. The last two builds shown in this thread are downright terrible. I may be wrong, but with two builds having been fully exposed, I expect the rest of them to slowly come to light.

If only he'd give the designs to someone who can actually build instruments... *sigh* He could concentrate on improving his design skills.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Sorry, I should've said "inlay" on my previous post because that was clearly sloppily painted on with the wateriest paint of all time or with sharpie. Honestly, most of the builds from the members here look a lot better. My first build absolutely had plenty of flaws but is playable since the neck was made by Warmoth (thought ahead on that one ) but I would never in a million years consider selling it to someone because of those flaws. It's a learning experience to see those flaws and realize what I should've done differently but again, if that build were for a customer I would never ship it out.


----------



## Helstormau

Hahaha, where are all the etherial fanboys now?


----------



## thrsher

as a current customer witha build near completion, i will deal with matt directly and those that are actual owners of etherial gutiars.


----------



## RedDog22

Just an observation after reviewing some recent posts:

Seems like there is too much invested in each piece of the guitar such as the neck, body inlays & fretboard. Consequently, there isn't enough room for mistakes after all that time & various material is invested in each area so inconsistencies seem to be accepted. Slight deviations in inlays make pieces unique from an artistic POV (such as a Warhol work, as another has mentioned) but when things start effecting[sp.] the playability of the instrument, then it becomes a major issue. Inlays are one thing, as something like that doesn't effect the playability of the guitar so much as mis-cut necks, misaligned saddle geometry(?),mis-cut nuts & saddles, etc... Add to that, he might have a backlog, based on the time-tables I've read on these threads, so the builder is prolly reluctant to scrap bolloxed parts and begin from scratch as that would not only increase the back-log but increase his out-of-pocket expense.

As others have said, maybe he should concentrate on the design and artistic aspect such as designing, engraving & laminates, as it is obvious that he has talent/passion in those areas, & employ someone who has building experience for the mechanical aspects mentioned above. Or lower the build number so as to be able to spend more time w/ each instrument, if that is an issue which it seems might be an issue as mentioned above.


----------



## jonajon91

Its such a pity about these guitars because they are probably my favorite to look at from a distance.



Helstormau said:


> Hahaha, where are all the etherial fanboys now?



Right here. A little disheartened, but still here


----------



## FIXXXER

the last pics are pure HORROR, the cheapest 200$ ibanez guitars have a better build quality and are cleaner.
is this really custom work/pricing? 

this may sound a bit cocky but if i would pay like 1500$ for a custom and getting something like
the guitar showed in the pics above i'd definitively commit a felony...


----------



## sikapple

jonajon91 said:


> Its such a pity about these guitars because they are probably my favorite to look at from a distance.
> 
> 
> 
> Right here. A little disheartened, but still here



this is still my favourite guitar . . . to look at. as i said originally, 
i love this design and over all theme - it was mine - i dreamed of it. i think Matt is a talented designer / artist. 

i did not pay $2000 for wall art though.

he's a good lad, i got along with him (i live in the same state as him.)
as a business man...Matt perhaps is not so good.

my view on it here...
i run my own sole business, i know what needs to be done to keep a customer happy or at least satisfied. communication. consistency. discuss. find a solution, compromise, negotiate and keep going until you find a way to satisfy them with your product and services. and if all else fails - 100% money back. i have done this once before...and would do it again. this keeps my business successful with a solid client base. 

i dont think he is a fine craftsmen, artisan or luthier. obviously a bad eye for detail. at the time, my gf picked out the majority of issues with it in the first 10mins of looking at it - and she doesn't play guitar.

if it played like a dream...i may not have even posted here. 
but it didn't.


----------



## abandonist

What was done by Matt to fix your problems?


----------



## Riley

Playability is the single most important factor. Of course most people take aesthetics seriously(as they should) but I have played some horrible looking guitars that just had "it" when it comes to feel and sound. It made it easy to overlook the terrible design or whatever it was that made it so ugly. If they don't play well(or play period for that matter) you are not making/selling instruments. You are selling "art" that looks like an instrument. I am disgusted to look at this dudes "work" and sorry for anyone that has given him money for these things.


----------



## theo

Back onto that scalloped fretboard.

Why? It can serve no functional purpose there could it? I can't imagine pressing strings anywhere near hard enough to reach further than the fretboard when the fret spacing is that narrow let alone as far down as those scallops are.


----------



## TemjinStrife

abandonist said:


> What was done by Matt to fix your problems?



This. Did he attempt to fix the instrument? Offer you money back? Offer to pay for a tech to sort things out? Cut and run with your cash?


----------



## Cloudy

Wow that build is just...sorry dude.

I hope you and Matt work something out.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Just so people aren't confused and think this is a route. That is wet paint! The saddles would've been installed when it was still tacky.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

@SIKAPPLE: I always wondered who owned that early Etherial. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I want to tear apart some pictures of Noyan's build now since he's the biggest fanboy around here. I'd also really like to tear apart Lucas Mann's original build, and now his current remake (which he still hasn't received). John Kiernan (JKiernan who started this thread) and Blake Allard (Yekalb) are a few more Etherial artists whose builds I'd like to take a look at.

And of course, let's not forget, the ever-popular Sarah Longfield no longer plays her Etherial at all. (Probably disowned it.)


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

thrsher said:


> those that are actual owners of etherial gutiars.



What does this mean? - Best of luck with that though. Some of us aren't owners though because we've held one and looked at it in person...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> because they are probably my favorite to _*look at from a distance*_.



*ding ding ding* WINNER!

You said it!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

sikapple said:


> at the time, my gf picked out the majority of issues with it in the first 10mins of looking at it - and she doesn't play guitar.



As I was reading this, I called it in my head. And I was right! 

Anyway, welcome to the forum though, brother! Glad to have you! If you overlook a lot of the BS, you'll find a lot of useful info on here for guitars and music! Keep in touch!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

prettyordinaryplayer said:


> You can really see his attention to what his mum was cooking for dinner, because sure as shhhhhhugar, his attention wasn't on the task at hand.



 Welcome to the forum, man!


----------



## MJS

A quick glance at my rep tells me that at least one person reading this thread regrets paying thousands of dollars for a guitar that wouldn't make it past QC at a sweatshop pumping out $79.95 guitars.


----------



## mongey

I have been reading this thread but staying out of it . As an Aussie I dont really like calling out an aussie who's having a go but that white guitar is just ...... terrible . How does that get shipped 

Mistakes happen, but not realising you are making mistkes , or not caring is another thing


----------



## Metal_Webb

Helstormau said:


> Hahaha, where are all the etherial fanboys now?



Probably staying as far away from this hating-circlejerk as possible. There's a difference between criticism and the shit that's being thrown around in this thread. It's yet again, mostly from people who haven't been near the instruments (and in all honesty it doesn't affect them) popping in to air their oppinion.

The lambo guitar, when was that delivered? We're all aware that Matt's quality 12 months ago was shonky at best. Not that that's excusable for the severe ....ups shown

I'm not invested in Etherial at all. I just appreciate the man's designs and just wish that his crafting skills were up to scratch as there's plenty of potential there, he just needs to work on improving his QC.



> Originally Posted by Wings of Obsidian
> Matt uses a slew of woods that are native to Australia since only Australians get access to them. Then he tries to sell the woods (since us non-Aussies haven't heard of them), to make the guitars sound more exotic and enticing.
> 
> I mean, come on, Redgum, Bluegum, Jarrah, Blackbutt, etc...



Same thing applies to a person selling a wenge, ebony, purpleheart (for example) guitar to an Australian. We don't have access to these woods so these are used to make the guitars sound more exotic and enticing. He's just saying what the guitars are made from and the materials he chooses to use..



> Pro-tip from a native - we have 1000's of amazing native woods - every single one of them is Eucalyptus, sold under a different name.



Yes, and they're all different. It's like saying all the different species of pine are the same (for example). The species grow in different parts of the country and are exposed to different conditions etc. 
As for whether or not the timber is suitable for guitar usage is subjective. Perry may not want to build guitars from it, that's fine, that's his prerogative. Matt wants to use these timbers and it's his and his client's choice to do so.


----------



## SpaceDock

How shit! ....ing goddamn greasy horror show!


----------



## ormsby guitars

Metal_Webb said:


> Perry may not want to build guitars from it, that's fine, that's his prerogative. Matt wants to use these timbers and it's his and his client's choice to do so.



I was going to steer well clear of this thread, but thanks for the invite...

Firstly, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE to use certain Australian timbers. They are cheap, very accessible, and grown in my own 'backyard'. As a proud Australian, it would mean the world to me to build using our native flora. Western Australia has THE best Jarrah, bar none. To those outside of this country, it is beautiful exotic timber. 

Just because a client requests an unknown timber, doesn't make it right. The luthier should use materials he is familiar with, and is well educated about.

Unfortunately only a tiny handful of Australian timbers have tonal qualities, but when they do, they bring their A game. Blue/red gum, Blackbutt, do not fall into the tone wood desirable list, not for their tonal qualities, or their stability. Jarrah is considered tonally dead, is prone to splits (so a no no for fretboards), and simply weighs too much for bodies and necks. 

With well thought out chambering to enhance a bodies resonance, you could use Jarrah for a thin decorative top (and I will soon), but you'd need a spectacular piece dried very well for it to work the best. You have to know what your dealing with, to get the best from it. 

Redgum is the same. Its prone to movement, so much so, it is not allowed for railway sleepers, as the movement can cause the tracks to narrow in summer, wedging the trains off the tracks! In winter it moves the opposite, meaning the trains arent sitting within the tracks properly. But, we aren't talking trains, we are talking precision instruments that shouldnt move. Imagine what will happen if the body tries to move, and the carbon tries to stop it. There are no well respected luthiers using this timber because of its properties. It is borderline ok for acoustics but once again it isn't suitable for electrics. The same goes for other Aussie timbers, eg: Jarrah, Marri, Karri, etc. 

Wandoo is great. Tasmanian Blackwood is stunning. Sheoak is very similar to Lacewood and works well for fretboards or tops. Sassafrass is awesome. Myrtle too. King Billy Pine is highly sort after. Gidgee is suitable.

Now, let's discuss the other, not known factors. Australian standards require kiln drying for furniture grade timber to 12%, except in some cases it is allowed at 18%. The standard for guitar manufacturing is 6-8%. The only way to reach these levels is by the luthier using a controlled drying method.

The primary reason for drying wood to a moisture content equivalent 6-8% is to stop movement in service. If it is too "wet", for example, 12%, it WILL not only dry out in more arid conditions (or simply a slightly drier enviroment), but be much more prone to movement with temperature changes. If you've ever had timber window frames in a house, you'll know how much they expand and contract between seasons. 

Let's now consider the carbon fibre wrapping. Carbon does not move with changes in the weather, at any rate even comparable to timber. So, you get (let's say) a neck, which is moving in length and width each winter. It's trying to expand. You've got a carbon shell that wont let it. All movement has to be at the fretboard face... the very surface we want to be perfect.

Now, let's consider the over engineering of the necks. Blackbutt, for example, is 50% (approx) stronger than Maple. Truss rods work fine in Maple, but start to struggle with stronger timbers. Add two carbon reinforcing strips, PLUS a carbon wrap on the back, and you are in trouble... not because the truss rod will virtually be useless, but because the timbers used (eg: Blackbutt) which are VERY prone to movement (more than regular guitar timbers) WILL be able to twist, cup, bow, etc. Your truss rod has to compete against not only a 50% stronger neck (dont confuse timber strength with lack of movement), but masses of carbon reinforcing. And if the carbon shell limits the forward or back bow? The timber will twist instead, trying to turn that neck into a corkscrew.

Now, will these Aussie timbers sound like a guitar? Yes. 

The same goes for plywood and MDF though.

Will they have the nuances that we strive for that makes the difference between a "guitar" and a "stunning guitar"? The resonance that a good player feeds off? The spine tingling sensation we get as players when everything is just perfect? No.

And THAT, is why I dont use anything but the best timbers. I would very much love to use Aussie timbers more, at $10 a neck, over importing Maple from Canada or the USA, customs, postage, insurance, purchasing blind, etc etc etc


----------



## asher

Timber is subjective after a point - soft, highly unstable, easily warped, wood that easily tears, etc have some objective reasons not to use them.

ed:  by the master. Maybe run over with a train given the size and quality of post disparity!


----------



## sikapple

Metal_Webb said:


> Probably staying as far away from this hating-circlejerk as possible.


 Metal_Webb.

not sure if that's directed at me here ?

*warning...large justified typing marathon below.

i have to say though, i promoted no hating-circlejerk dribble in my post here. if you read my words before i post the photos. 
i agree with you, Matt is a talented designer and artist. 
3rd time i've said this now...i love this guitar and the design - 
to look at from a small distance. i did not order wall art. 
i honestly dont care if it was his first guitar build 5 years ago. 
just as the other white etherial here - it should not have been shipped out like that. 
this should not be a standard and ready to ship for any guitar builder
taking customers money. you want to "have a go" by all means have a
go and make your sister, cousin, cat or neighbour a guitar or two.
in your spare time. then when you master it and are clearly worthy
take on the dream of starting you own guitar brand.

he offered a new custom product i paid full price for it. does this look
worthy? (rhetorical question)

Matt offered to "respray it". i've seen what comes out of his tarped spray area 
and his skill levels and standards with a finish many times over... 
i'm not keen on that. i've seen his standard - i had the guitar in my
hands looking over it only days after he said he was really happy with it,
how it turned out and how great it was and the interest it was getting...etc. 

this is no head hunt at all. not calling out anyone. 
i've already told Matt all this. i have nothing to gain and nothing to lose.

i've already lost mate.

i simply am showing you all my etherial. your call what you make of it.
hoping that everyone here can see this. it took me a long time to decide to post this up. 
i had two mates keen on etherial builds...until they held mine. 
they said i HAVE TO let people know and post these photos. 
and how it wasn't fair on others like myself if i didn't. 
so here i am... showing some photos with facts.
thats it.

if i didn't have a father who is a car panel beater/amazing spray painter and i knew no guitar techs 
or had little to no knowledge of how to rectify, repair and setup this guitar. 
(i'm a full time A/V technician and i've been a part time guitar tech for over 10 yrs with travelling bands and a local instrument shop)
...i would send it back to him and have some hope he would strip it back and start all over again and get it right. 
but, i lost that "hope" and trust when i held that guitar and spotted at least 10 issues with it in the first 10 minutes, 
including - the non playable issues.
not only was the pot shaft broken, but the electronics were failing and i had to re-solder dry joints and replace some budget wiring.
but Matt did offer to "re - spray it". 

i am fully rectifying in confidence that i can have it 7 times better then how it arrived.
and i am proving this as true with those that have seen it in the flesh.

again...nothing personal no "hating-circlejerk" from me here at all.
i'm showing you a product here. its that simple.

i wish i was doing a happy NGD for etherial. and showing you all how sick and epic and fine an instrument i got from a fellow aussie "having a go". 
but no.

its all good and all to have a go . . . but may i suggest some honesty here:

" to my future etherial customers - i have a talent in design with unique ideas. nothing is too out there for me, i'll give it ago. 
i'm a young, fresh, back yard guitar builder that is happy to have a go at your dream instrument. 
i will make mistakes. 
it will be far from perfect, but i'm passionate and keen to build and learn from each one.
i'll take your money and offer to fix any issues on the final product until you're happy...or money back" 

i would have sent it back the week after i got it for a full refund. 
but that was not on offer. i would not want Matt to touch any of my guitars. at all. ever. its just not his thing.

his talent is making unique guitar art. perhaps he could turn his workshop into an art studio. 
i'd be happy to go check out his art and support that.

i feel i have repeated myself enough here now. i also think i dont have to post any more photos or words on this thread.
i've made it all pretty clear. if you want more details and all, feel free to PM me.

thanks to the other white etherial owner for your balls and honesty here as well.
it is hard to do this and as a sole business man myself. . . its not my style to flame anyone personally. 
this is strictly business and hard earned $$ that i see as lost.

(although on the positive - these $2000 bareknuckle warpigs are sick!!)

as for the timbers, Perry Ormsby has already covered that - like a boss!!


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

Metal_Webb said:


> Probably staying as far away from this hating-circlejerk as possible. There's a difference between criticism and the shit that's being thrown around in this thread. It's yet again, mostly from people who haven't been near the instruments (and in all honesty it doesn't affect them) popping in to air their oppinion.
> 
> The lambo guitar, when was that delivered? We're all aware that Matt's quality 12 months ago was shonky at best. Not that that's excusable for the severe ....ups shown
> 
> I'm not invested in Etherial at all. I just appreciate the man's designs and just wish that his crafting skills were up to scratch as there's plenty of potential there, he just needs to work on improving his QC.



Hating circle jerk? Please.
It's called honesty, the only thing under fire is his crappy build quality, and his method of dealing with it.

I was going to buy an Etherial build, until I saw and played one, because I didn't purchase one, does that render my opinion any less valid?

As far as me not being affected by someone else being burned, if I can save somebody some heartache by offering a few words, I will do that.
What kind of person are you?
If you see somebody conduct a transaction at an ATM, and it's evident that the ATM processed the transaction but dispensed no money, leaving this poor sap with an empty account and no cash, then you see another person try to use that ATM later, are you going to say nothing because it doesn't concern you and you are not affected?

Seriously, what kind of person are you? Because that is your logic here, that because people are saying "look at this shit", that it's some kind of witch hunt.

Personally, I would hope that this becomes a wake up call for Matt, I'd be happy to see his quality improve.
What he's doing now, is unacceptable.

What does it matter when it was delivered? He took a considerable sum of money for this build, and it's sh!t. Your point is irrelevant.


----------



## ECGuitars

ormsby guitars said:


> I was going to steer well clear of this thread, but thanks for the invite...
> 
> Firstly, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE to use certain Australian timbers. They are cheap, very accessible, and grown in my own 'backyard'. As a proud Australian, it would mean the world to me to build using our native flora. Western Australia has THE best Jarrah, bar none. To those outside of this country, it is beautiful exotic timber.
> 
> Just because a client requests an unknown timber, doesn't make it right. The luthier should use materials he is familiar with, and is well educated about.
> 
> Unfortunately only a tiny handful of Australian timbers have tonal qualities, but when they do, they bring their A game. Blue/red gum, Blackbutt, do not fall into the tone wood desirable list, not for their tonal qualities, or their stability. Jarrah is considered tonally dead, is prone to splits (so a no no for fretboards), and simply weighs too much for bodies and necks.
> 
> With well thought out chambering to enhance a bodies resonance, you could use Jarrah for a thin decorative top (and I will soon), but you'd need a spectacular piece dried very well for it to work the best. You have to know what your dealing with, to get the best from it.
> 
> Redgum is the same. Its prone to movement, so much so, it is not allowed for railway sleepers, as the movement can cause the tracks to narrow in summer, wedging the trains off the tracks! In winter it moves the opposite, meaning the trains arent sitting within the tracks properly. But, we aren't talking trains, we are talking precision instruments that shouldnt move. Imagine what will happen if the body tries to move, and the carbon tries to stop it. There are no well respected luthiers using this timber because of its properties. It is borderline ok for acoustics but once again it isn't suitable for electrics. The same goes for other Aussie timbers, eg: Jarrah, Marri, Karri, etc.
> 
> Wandoo is great. Tasmanian Blackwood is stunning. Sheoak is very similar to Lacewood and works well for fretboards or tops. Sassafrass is awesome. Myrtle too. King Billy Pine is highly sort after. Gidgee is suitable.
> 
> Now, let's discuss the other, not known factors. Australian standards require kiln drying for furniture grade timber to 12%, except in some cases it is allowed at 18%. The standard for guitar manufacturing is 6-8%. The only way to reach these levels is by the luthier using a controlled drying method.
> 
> The primary reason for drying wood to a moisture content equivalent 6-8% is to stop movement in service. If it is too "wet", for example, 12%, it WILL not only dry out in more arid conditions (or simply a slightly drier enviroment), but be much more prone to movement with temperature changes. If you've ever had timber window frames in a house, you'll know how much they expand and contract between seasons.
> 
> Let's now consider the carbon fibre wrapping. Carbon does not move with changes in the weather, at any rate even comparable to timber. So, you get (let's say) a neck, which is moving in length and width each winter. It's trying to expand. You've got a carbon shell that wont let it. All movement has to be at the fretboard face... the very surface we want to be perfect.
> 
> Now, let's consider the over engineering of the necks. Blackbutt, for example, is 50% (approx) stronger than Maple. Truss rods work fine in Maple, but start to struggle with stronger timbers. Add two carbon reinforcing strips, PLUS a carbon wrap on the back, and you are in trouble... not because the truss rod will virtually be useless, but because the timbers used (eg: Blackbutt) which are VERY prone to movement (more than regular guitar timbers) WILL be able to twist, cup, bow, etc. Your truss rod has to compete against not only a 50% stronger neck (dont confuse timber strength with lack of movement), but masses of carbon reinforcing. And if the carbon shell limits the forward or back bow? The timber will twist instead, trying to turn that neck into a corkscrew.
> 
> Now, will these Aussie timbers sound like a guitar? Yes.
> 
> The same goes for plywood and MDF though.
> 
> Will they have the nuances that we strive for that makes the difference between a "guitar" and a "stunning guitar"? The resonance that a good player feeds off? The spine tingling sensation we get as players when everything is just perfect? No.
> 
> And THAT, is why I dont use anything but the best timbers. I would very much love to use Aussie timbers more, at $10 a neck, over importing Maple from Canada or the USA, customs, postage, insurance, purchasing blind, etc etc etc



This is why you are an inspiration to me as a luthier, a businessman, and (a once) fellow cabinet-maker like myself. Some of these up and coming guys are trying to run before they can walk, you have to learn your basics first, understanding timber is a science which you have a masterful knowledge of!


----------



## Erockomania

prettyordinaryplayer said:


> Hating circle jerk? Please.
> It's called honesty, the only thing under fire is his crappy build quality, and his method of dealing with it.
> 
> I was going to buy an Etherial build, until I saw and played one, because I didn't purchase one, does that render my opinion any less valid?
> 
> As far as me not being affected by someone else being burned, if I can save somebody some heartache by offering a few words, I will do that.
> What kind of person are you?
> If you see somebody conduct a transaction at an ATM, and it's evident that the ATM processed the transaction but dispensed no money, leaving this poor sap with an empty account and no cash, then you see another person try to use that ATM later, are you going to say nothing because it doesn't concern you and you are not affected?
> 
> Seriously, what kind of person are you? Because that is your logic here, that because people are saying "look at this shit", that it's some kind of witch hunt.
> 
> Personally, I would hope that this becomes a wake up call for Matt, I'd be happy to see his quality improve.
> What he's doing now, is unacceptable.
> 
> What does it matter when it was delivered? He took a considerable sum of money for this build, and it's sh!t. Your point is irrelevant.



yep. I'd be PISSED if I ordered a guitar from this guy only to realize his vision is 1000% greater than his skill. He has the vision. He DOES NOT have the skill. He should learn from someone who knows what they are doing and return to the game when he has good standards and practices. His work COULD be really freakin cool but he either has no attention to detail or simply doesn't care. Maybe a little of both.


----------



## Helstormau

Metal_Webb said:


> Probably staying as far away from this hating-circlejerk as possible. There's a difference between criticism and the shit that's being thrown around in this thread. It's yet again, mostly from people who haven't been near the instruments (and in all honesty it doesn't affect them) popping in to air their oppinion.



Hahaha, circlejerk. Ok mate, I tell you what. Would you be happy with a guitar that you payed over $2000 for that had problems like the etherials posted recently had? I wouldn't. I would be so pissed if a guitar came to me like that. The amount of time between when these where done and now doesn't matter because the twat is still building shit guitars. Maybe not as shit, but still not to the standard they should be.

Yes, I agree that the guy has a lot of great ideas and stuff, but it is one thing to be a great artist/designer and another to be a luthier. I have alot of ideas for guitars too, but you don't see me building guitars for people. This guy should not be allowed to build guitars if they keep comming out like this and you know what? I would rather pay twice the price and wait two years or so with a different luthier and get something that would blow my mind and be absolutely perfect, like a custom should.

Another part about being a luthier is that you need to know what is good and what is not for building guitars. If someone asks for a material that is inadequate for a guitar he should just turn around and say no to it (like that inlay on the sakura guitar, although he probably chose that material himself). It might just be that he can't afford better woods or something, I don't know what the guy thinks (obviously he doesnt )


----------



## jonajon91

Got a semi-official statement from Matt of facebook



> Hey man, I've been I'm in touch with the guys to resolve the issues. If any customer has an issue/s with the build they just have to let me know and I'll do what I can to resolve the problem. If that doesn't satisfy the customer I can do a refund or replacement instrument.


----------



## jonajon91

Helstormau said:


> " to my future etherial customers - i have a talent in design with unique ideas. nothing is too out there for me, i'll give it ago.
> i'm a young, fresh, back yard guitar builder that is happy to have a go at your dream instrument.
> i will make mistakes.
> it will be far from perfect, but i'm passionate and keen to build and learn from each one.
> i'll take your money and offer to fix any issues on the final product until you're happy...or money back"



Nailed it.


----------



## sikapple

@jonajon91 - nope, that was originally posted by me...above. ^ not Helstormau.


----------



## jonajon91

My bad.


----------



## ThrashX

yup, id be well pissed


----------



## Metal_Webb

sikapple said:


> Metal_Webb.
> not sure if that's directed at me here ?



Definitely not mate. You've been burnt by the experience and as such have every right to be pissed off. I know I would be if I was in your shoes. Posts like yours (unfortunately) are what's needed to act as a sufficient warning to people who want to place an order. A detailed breakdown on the ....ups is far, far more useful than second-hand information about so and so's guitar being a bit iffy on arrival. I genuinely hope that Matt sorts his shit out and you get compensation for the mess that arrived.

Perry, sorry for dragging you into this discussion. That you took your time to write a detailed and objective post is appreciated because you explained which timbers and the reasons as to why they're subpar for guitar construction. That's the sort of experience that's needed here. Of course, the subtleties of the tone in the guitar when there's a shitload of gain thrown on the signal is a different beasty all together. In that case you could almost take an old broom throw a pup on it and call it a day as far as the timber tonal quality is concerned .



> As far as me not being affected by someone else being burned, if I can save somebody some heartache by offering a few words, I will do that.
> etc.



To continue on with your analogy:
Sikapple is the a bloke who got burnt by the ATM and his detailed posts are acting as a warning to anyone else who wants to use it. A lot of the posts here are by people who don't even use that bank and are swinging by, making a comment on the situation and then hanging about to jeer at the guy who comes to repair the ATM. Of course, it would be good to get the ATM owner here for his views on the situation first hand but he'd be liable to get run out of town by all the rubber neckers. At the end of the day, I'm just another dude popping in, going, "Heh, that ATM's broken" then continuing on with my life because it doesn't directly affect me.



> What kind of person are you?


An asshole who goes around gutterstomping children for their candy. /sarcasm
Leave the ad hominem out of it. It does nothing to improve the quality of discussion anywhere.


*I'll be the first to agree when there's a fault with these guitars, a blind man could see that. That they're leaving the shop like it is far below what's expected of anywhere. Matt really needs to get his QC up to scratch and sort out the simple shit that he's messing up with.* The man's got a vision and design skills, needs to work on the execution.


----------



## Necromagnon

Metal_Webb said:


> Probably staying as far away from this hating-circlejerk as possible. There's a difference between criticism and the shit that's being thrown around in this thread.


And how many people here worship builders just with a few pictures? You see, this is the modern business. Because you can't always have the guitar in hand, because you can't go at your local music store and try one out like an Ibanez, Jackson, and so on. So you'll have to rely on pictures seen here and there, and on customer feedback, like you do everytime you try to shop on the internet.

Now, just look at this way: you find a nice shop that sells some original stuff that looks good on the mockup. You think to give it a try, then you see pictures of the actual real stuff... And it takes you less than 3 glances to sport several HUGE mistakes (visual and/or "technical"). Would you go for it? Then you see 2 customers feedback that are happy with their stuff, and 2 others that are not. Would you trust this shop?
I'm pretty sure you won't. And nobody would. And at least, if you still give it a try, you did with knowledge of his quality.

I don't get why you can give bad feedback sometimes, and sometimes not. For Invictus, nobody was shouting at a "hating-circlejerk" nor nothing.


----------



## thrsher

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I have a build underway with Matt.
> 
> Now all you guys are just being damn nitpicky. We are talking about one guy slaving away by himself to do everything. In case you haven't noticed, Matt has now finished and shipped out six custom built guitars in the past month. Now, speed is not what I am getting at. But he takes his time with the process. I am sorry that every damn Gibson turns out perfect coming from the assembly line where fifty people build guitars day-after-day, hour-after-hour, doing the same shit every day until they become good at it. (*sarcasm*) Mass production guitars can have their flaws too!
> 
> I have full faith and confidence in Matt's abilities as a luthier. While I am not supporting nor backing anything in this thread, nor am I necessarily backing his craftsmanship, I am slightly nervous that there could be little "flaws" like this. But for now, I am overlooking my slight fear.




this is your post from feb. in this thread, now look at the way you are conducting yourself in this thread. 

we all agree, terrible work, should have never been sent to customers like that. some people in this thread are being constructive and cordial. others not so much. i dont have time to play the hate game. it sucks, it puts myself and others in a tough spot and i will do my part to try and make it a better, not add to the fire.


----------



## Pikka Bird

ECGuitars said:


> ...trying to run before they can walk...



Well, you gotta learn to dance before you learn to crawl! 

Maybe Matt should lay off the Meat Loaf influence for a while.


----------



## jonajon91

> In case you haven't noticed, Matt has now finished and shipped out six custom built guitars in the past month





> I have full faith and confidence in Matt's abilities as a luthier.



As do I. I believe that he can make phenomenal guitars with none of these flaws (and he has, but who wants to talk about them?), its just that he does not do it all the time. Perhaps its the speed that he makes guitars that is his downfall


----------



## Riley

jonajon91 said:


> As do I. I believe that he can make phenomenal guitars with none of these flaws (and he has, but who wants to talk about them?), its just that he does not do it all the time. Perhaps its the speed that he makes guitars that is his downfall




PLEASE show me one of these flawless phenomenal guitars


----------



## TemjinStrife

jonajon91 said:


> As do I. I believe that he can make phenomenal guitars with none of these flaws (and he has, but who wants to talk about them?), its just that he does not do it all the time. Perhaps its the speed that he makes guitars that is his downfall



So you want to spend thousands of dollars on the off chance that he might make something decent?


----------



## foreright

Reminds me of that old adage: "fast, cheap, good quality - pick two" (or as it applies to women: good looking, intelligent, emotionally stable - pick two )


----------



## guidothepimmp

Yikes... and i thought you Aussies were only terrible at rugby and cricket ...

"Ducks and runs"


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A certain Etherial artist has contacted me and forcibly asked me to stop criticizing and bashing Matt's builds because he's been reporting back to Matt about the shit I say, which explains a lot...like why Matt won't answer my correspondence. (Middle school drama here we go.)
> 
> This will be the last time I post in this thread.



I am not the artist in question and I have no idea who it is since I don't keep active correspondence with all of the Etherial people, but nice last post in this thread. On page 25 you have 5 back-to-back posts. 


To the other people in the thread, there's always more than one side to every story and from what I understand (of course the sides I've heard might not be accurate as well) Wings isn't telling the full story regarding his interactions with Matt - but it's not my place to delve any deeper here. There's a reason I blocked Wings on facebook though. I wouldn't have said anything, but he personally called me out:



Wings of Obsidian said:


> I want to tear apart some pictures of Noyan's build now since he's the biggest fanboy around here. I'd also really like to tear apart Lucas Mann's original build, and now his current remake (which he still hasn't received). John Kiernan (JKiernan who started this thread) and Blake Allard (Yekalb) are a few more Etherial artists whose builds I'd like to take a look at.
> 
> And of course, let's not forget, the ever-popular Sarah Longfield no longer plays her Etherial at all. (Probably disowned it.)



You know what, I'm happy with my guitar. Some of the builds here have pretty glaring issues, but I don't understand why you feel the need to tear down my guitar. This has been talked about in previous pages of this thread or my NGD, I've shown pictures and we talked all about it, with a bunch of speculation from people and some decided it had some issues, and some decided it didn't. I don't see the point of dredging that conversation back up again. I've been open with my guitar and posted pictures myself as well. It's already there for you to view, unless you're trying to refuel some old crap to get this hate train against Matt going, due to some agenda you have or whatever. Off the top of my head, Blake, Kim, Dale, Christos, Risto, Lucas, Matt, John and Chris are all happy with their builds and speak very highly of Matt. As for Sarah, why she no longer plays her Etherial is just speculation, you can't assume it's just because the build might be bad.

To the rest of the posters:

I'm sorry to see those flawed builds from those people, but (to my knowledge) Matt has been nothing but extremely nice and willing to cooperate with people who actually bought a guitar from him and is willing to work with issues and he has always offered to fix or refund guitars that people are unhappy with. That doesn't take away the issues, yes, but it is what it is. If you're thinking of getting an Etherial, be aware of the full picture. I'm not here to shill for Etherial, I'm just a happy customer providing my perspective, and also warning everyone in the thread of people potentially trying to steer the conversation deeper into flaming. Not trying to discredit the valid complaints of the posters who have issues with their own builds or are pointing out potential issues in the pictures of others.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

BouhZik said:


> I remember this sentence (and the smilley), but it was not in this thread!
> Where are you Omega???



Here I am, I'm following the thread and seeing what happens and giving credit where credit is due.
I'm not the kind of guy that runs, hide, move the goalpost, or...just reply to a thread only if I'm comfortable with, or...wait...take a post out of context perhaps.
I just keep my mouth shut and observe if I can't express enthusiasm or have nothing worth to be said.
If I can't be positive.

My post was referred to that specific build, and as I mentioned later, I prefer seeing the guy deliver a good piece of work than making a mess with someone else's money.
I'm glad he's doing a good job there, and I honestly think, everyone should be happy if he delivers a good, refined instrument to a fellow forumite rather than checking a build thread waiting for the first mistake because "it's inevitable, it will come".

But to my, short experience here, I see that some people enjoys skirmishes, grudges, insults and other immature stuff.
For many kind guys that are around, willing to help, there are many more guys that wouldn't spot the mistake until someone else points it out, and getting on their keyboards to add the discussion something that is empty laughter.

I read Ormsby's post about woods, properties, dangers of using them with loads of interest.
A well thought post that was brilliant and informative for everyone.
But I wonder how many people gives opinion without that kind of knowledge and experience.
Luckily he's not the only one saying things that make sense, but unfortunately that's the minority of the whole thread history.

I never denied that Matt makes mistakes, and what's incredible is that many of those mistakes are distraction mistakes, like bad positioning of saddles or messy finishes, something that could be corrected and avoided with some more patience and attention.
After Ormsby's post I got some more info on conceptual mistakes.
AFTER ORMSBY'S POST.

But back to my point, calling out people that dislike those instruments...I honestly think it's because people hate what he does (the too gaudy guitars) more than how he does it, and rejoice and find personal satisfaction in the build mistakes.
His thread has more crap than any other luthier around, from questioning the guitar shapes to clear hate.
There's some people that see the mistakes and instead of feel disheartened for a poor work, smiles/grins and pats themselves on the back telling to themselves: "Ahahah, look that binding, I knew it, AHAHAH he dun goofed"
There are some degrees of intollerance and immaturity around that reach silly levels.

Now we can rightly question the ethics of giving hard earned money to this guy that clearly is still on his learning patterns.
I totally accept the disappointment of a professional luthier that sees his work endangered.
I understand the rage of people not getting the instrument they dreamed for.

I don't get people enjoying this man failure.
The people giving him his money dream to have something that other luthiers refuse to do.
Remember this.
Is he wrong because he accepts the work?
Is people wrong because they entrust him with his money?
Both perhaps?

I'm not a luthier and can't answer the first question, but I can see the disappointment of people asking somewhere else and getting the door shut on their face.

I hope this guy gets his acts together soon because he has potential.
Constructive criticism guys is welcome, everything else is bull crap.
If you think the situation is seriously bad, don't laugh at others' people wasted money, empathize if you feel it, or maybe...shut up.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> I'm not a luthier and can't answer the first question, but I can see the disappointment of people asking somewhere else and getting the door shut on their face.



Just to bring up the point, this is why I'm glad that SikApple posted. 

Every endorsed Etherial artist has done exactly that which Omega said....."shut the door on their face". All endorsees wouldn't dare say a negative thing of their special endorsed/signature guitar or the guy who built it. This is what they say/do: "Oh yeah, he's great." End of story. No backing or justification.

Non-endorsed guys, like SikApple, any other players who've posted on here (my buddy whose pictures I posted) have all been disappointed and have provided clear and honest feedback in regard to flaws concerning playability, technical design, aesthetic design, etc.

Following another point that Omega made, I, myself, am not one of the ones sitting and laughing and "diligently hunting" in hopes of finding the tiniest of flaws. Personally, I'm kicking myself for wanting to do business with Matt at this point, but I also am disheartened and disheveled as more and more flaws and problems and straight out terrible worksmanship/craftsmanship come to mind. (But, in the end, it also makes me happy that I didn't give him any money.) 

Thrsher pulled up a post of mine from back in Feb. Almost a year ago. - Look at what happens when the overwhelming evidence becomes undeniable and you no longer feel safe or confident in even thinking about giving a personal your hard earned money. (Money after all is the power behind the whole world. - Speaking of money, let me offer a question: if Matt gave "beginner prices", meaning cheap market prices on his customs as he is starting out and is learning about and perfecting his craft, like many luthiers do, would you still buy? As opposed to him charging the "big boy, professional luthier" prices?)


----------



## jonajon91

NaYoN said:


> You know what, I'm happy with my guitar. Some of the builds here have pretty glaring issues, but I don't understand why you feel the need to tear down my guitar. *This has been talked about in previous pages of this thread or my NGD,* I've shown pictures and we talked all about it, with a bunch of speculation from people and some decided it had some issues, and some decided it didn't. I don't see the point of dredging that conversation back up again. I've been open with my guitar and posted pictures myself as well.* It's already there for you to view*, unless you're trying to refuel some old crap to get this hate train against Matt going, due to some agenda you have or whatever. Off the top of my head, Blake, Kim, Dale, Christos, Risto, Lucas, Matt, John and Chris are all happy with their builds and speak very highly of Matt. As for Sarah, why she no longer plays her Etherial is just speculation, you can't assume it's just because the build might be bad.



This, all the guitars on the last few pages have been picked apart before in this thread and i'm sure, given a few months, will be picked apart again with people acting all surprised when its common knowledge that people know what they are giving their money to.



NaYoN said:


> To the rest of the posters:
> 
> I'm sorry to see those flawed builds from those people, but (to my knowledge) *Matt has been nothing but extremely nice and willing to cooperate with people* who actually bought a guitar from him and is willing to work with issues and he has always offered to fix or refund guitars that people are unhappy with.



I have spoken plenty with Matt and he seems like a swell guy.


----------



## TemjinStrife

OmegaSlayer said:


> His thread has more crap than any other luthier around, from questioning the guitar shapes to clear hate.



Uhh, no. Have you seen what happened to BRJ after he ....ed up here? The "Calipers" controversy with Roter? How about the various S7 and Invictus and Acacia threads?

Etherial is not "special" in drawing any more or less "hate" than any other brand that has screwed over its customers, and it's no more or less deserved. 

For some reason, it just took longer for fans to accept the obvious.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

TemjinStrife said:


> For some reason, it just took longer for fans to accept the obvious.



A wise man once said: "The eyes are the gateway to a man's soul." (I'm saying this because I'm assuming most of the people, based on the way they talk/type on here, are men.) We live based on what we see. I mean, we fall for beautiful women, and it takes us forever to want to accept it and ditch them after they screw us over (even after our friends warn us that she is screwing us over). - In the same respect, we fall for beautiful guitars, and it takes us forever to want to accept it and ditch them after the builder screws us over (even after our fellow players warn us that the luthier will be screwing us over).


----------



## TemjinStrife

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A wise man once said: "The eyes are the gateway to a man's soul." (I'm saying this because I'm assuming most of the people, based on the way they talk/type on here, are men.) We live based on what we see. I mean, we fall for beautiful women, and it takes us forever to want to accept it and ditch them after they screw us over (even after our friends warn us that she is screwing us over). - In the same respect, we fall for beautiful guitars, and it takes us forever to want to accept it and ditch them after the builder screws us over (even after our fellow players warn us that the luthier will be screwing us over).



The issue here is actually one that bothers me a lot about SS.org's buying tendencies. Photoshop mockups, 3D models, and high-contrast photographs from a reasonable distance are sufficient to sell scores of guitars or launch a hype bandwagon, all based on visuals and regardless of how new or inexperienced a builder may be.

Then, it's only a year or more later, when things have blown over a bit and the original owners (and usually the second or third owners as well) have sold their instruments on, that people finally decide to come out and say, "Well, all this stuff was bad, or poorly constructed, or missing."

What should matter is how a guitar plays, feels, and sounds, not that it makes a pretty outline with dressed binding and fancy woods.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

TemjinStrife said:


> The issue here is actually one that bothers me a lot about SS.org's buying tendencies. Photoshop mockups, 3D models, and high-contrast photographs from a reasonable distance are sufficient to sell scores of guitars or launch a hype bandwagon, all based on visuals and regardless of how new or inexperienced a builder may be.
> 
> Then, it's only a year or more later, when things have blown over a bit and the original owners (and usually the second or third owners as well) have sold their instruments on, that people finally decide to come out and say, "Well, all this stuff was bad, or poorly constructed, or missing."
> 
> What should matter is how a guitar plays, feels, and sounds, not that it makes a pretty outline with dressed binding and fancy woods.



Off topic a bit, but I used to own a 1st generation PRS SE Paul Allender. When I was a kid starting out in high school, I worked a crummy job for $36 a week. I saved and saved and SAVED until I could buy that Allender guitar (new at $700) though! I bought it strictly based on looks and loved it and played it everywhere, all the time. I did pretty much all my learning as a kid on that axe. - But eventually, as I grew and became a player, learned about gear, tried different things out, and as I learned about what I liked and disliked, I learned that I began to REALLY dislike that Allender...compared to other axes I was lucky enough to test out (or buy, but mainly just poke around with in shops and stuff). Needless to say, I sold it to a forum member on here. Not looking back since. I've learned my lesson about the dangers of aesthetic designs. Aesthetics aren't everything.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash




----------



## FIXXXER

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Off topic a bit, but I used to own a 1st generation PRS SE Paul Allender. When I was a kid starting out in high school, I worked a crummy job for $36 a week. I saved and saved and SAVED until I could buy that Allender guitar (new at $700) though! I bought it strictly based on looks and loved it and played it everywhere, all the time. I did pretty much all my learning as a kid on that axe. - But eventually, as I grew and became a player, learned about gear, tried different things out, and as I learned about what I liked and disliked, I learned that I began to REALLY dislike that Allender...compared to other axes I was lucky enough to test out (or buy, but mainly just poke around with in shops and stuff). Needless to say, I sold it to a forum member on here. Not looking back since. I've learned my lesson about the dangers of aesthetic designs. Aesthetics aren't everything.



bodies with sanding paper trails, crooked fret slots and routings...this has nothing to do with aesthetics anymore, it's just a very bad work!


----------



## abandonist

In my own personal view, I think Matt should tone down some of the more outlandish materials he uses before he fully understands what he's doing with them. For example, I see he's now working with aluminum. I owned an Electrical Guitar Company guitar that was made entirely of aluminum. It's a very weird process to get all of that right. The guitar I had was technically flawless. Dude over there took years ironing out every detail and now has some of the big names in Metal using his instruments. It's not that aluminum isn't a good material, or that it's unusable for portions of guitars. I simply don't believe Matt has the background to work properly with it. He's barely a year in with carbon fiber builds and already moving on to the new hotness... Seems like a case of an overexcited builder vomiting out every last thing he can think of before the groundwork is laid. I know now after talking with him about some fairly wild ideas that I was right to back away. We ended up in entirely uncharted waters with some materials and I was damn sure not going to guinea pig that with my money.

No hate. Just my 2 cents on how I felt after dealing with a concept through Etherial.


----------



## AwDeOh

guidothepimmp said:


> Yikes... and i thought you Aussies were only terrible at rugby and cricket ...
> 
> "Ducks and runs"



Not true. They also make shitty meat pies, and their tomato sauce is horrible.


----------



## jkiernanguitar

Holy sheep shit, I come back to the tread to 27 pages posts, jeez!!

First off, I must say that I am a big fan of the guitar Matt's made for me. I'm definitely planning on sticking with Etherial for the haul, as the build he's made for me is terrific! To be honest, I'm not the guy who does "NGD" hi res photos, so that's why you all haven't seen them. Not fear of the build, but just don't get around to it, really. Even at that, anyone who's got an issue with their gear will and should post about it. To my knowledge, anyone that's contacted Matt about such has had their issues rectified. 

To TemjinStrife's point, the guitar comes down to feel and playability, which I whole heartedly dig (on top of it looks wicked!). I definitely stand behind my guitar and the brand. I won't shut anybody down for their concerns or their issues with some builds, but I definitely implore them to discuss them with Matt. He definitely works with you. Especially with the Lucas Mann model (which Lucas stated was sent back for cosmetic changes, not playability/performance/QC issues) and many of the other builds. I know it's difficult to compare, but if someone had an issue with an Ibanez, they could easily contact them and get it rectified. It's corporation who has the access to thousands of the same build if they can't rectify the issue with that build, specifically. When you have custom luthiers, it's huge to be able to contact the luthier transparently. 


My point: I love my guitar. He's done right by me, the build's awesome and there are more builds that have gone into people who love them's hands than haven't. As well, there have been very few guitars that have come out of Etherial, let's also put that into perspective. Anyone who's standing up for Etherial who owns one definitely isn't doing so because of endorsements (we've seen people who might just 'up and leave' a company for such), but because they really do enjoy their instrument. I wish I could pass mine around for people to play and feel (but I'm not paying shipping to everyone on this thread, sorry XDD). 

I have posted many a video with the build, here's the review of mine (since the beginning of this thread was definitely to my inquiry about the brand): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50vO2iiCKTM


----------



## Helstormau

jkiernanguitar said:


> He definitely works with you. Especially with the Lucas Mann model (which Lucas stated was sent back for cosmetic changes, not playability/performance/QC issues) and many of the other builds.



I'm sure that wouldnt be the only reason why he sent it back. I mean, he wouldn't come out and say on his facebook page that. Lucas would be getting a new one because he did a sloppy job of the first one (and with a few cosmeric changes). Just because he says something doesn't mean he is being completely honest.


----------



## jonajon91

I heard that the guitar was not everything that it was in blueprints, a few things that were overlooked like the lower horn was too short and that made it strange to sit with. I think the upper horn was strange as well making the neck/body weight a little uneven. It was then said that it was a prototype for the final model. I don't think it was originally a prototype.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

TemjinStrife said:


> Uhh, no. Have you seen what happened to BRJ after he ....ed up here? The "Calipers" controversy with Roter? How about the various S7 and Invictus and Acacia threads?
> 
> Etherial is not "special" in drawing any more or less "hate" than any other brand that has screwed over its customers, and it's no more or less deserved.
> 
> For some reason, it just took longer for fans to accept the obvious.



I see disingenuosness in putting on the same level a guy who stole money and a guy that did a sloppy work.
And that's exactly what I condemn about this thread.


----------



## ormsby guitars

jkiernanguitar said:


> Holy sheep shit, I come back to the tread to 27 pages posts, jeez!!
> 
> First off, I must say that I am a big fan of the guitar Matt's made for me. I'm definitely planning on sticking with Etherial for the haul, as the build he's made for me is terrific! To be honest, I'm not the guy who does "NGD" hi res photos, so that's why you all haven't seen them. Not fear of the build, but just don't get around to it, really. Even at that, anyone who's got an issue with their gear will and should post about it. To my knowledge, anyone that's contacted Matt about such has had their issues rectified.
> 
> To TemjinStrife's point, the guitar comes down to feel and playability, which I whole heartedly dig (on top of it looks wicked!). I definitely stand behind my guitar and the brand. I won't shut anybody down for their concerns or their issues with some builds, but I definitely implore them to discuss them with Matt. He definitely works with you. Especially with the Lucas Mann model (which Lucas stated was sent back for cosmetic changes, not playability/performance/QC issues) and many of the other builds. I know it's difficult to compare, but if someone had an issue with an Ibanez, they could easily contact them and get it rectified. It's corporation who has the access to thousands of the same build if they can't rectify the issue with that build, specifically. When you have custom luthiers, it's huge to be able to contact the luthier transparently.
> 
> 
> My point: I love my guitar. He's done right by me, the build's awesome and there are more builds that have gone into people who love them's hands than haven't. As well, there have been very few guitars that have come out of Etherial, let's also put that into perspective. Anyone who's standing up for Etherial who owns one definitely isn't doing so because of endorsements (we've seen people who might just 'up and leave' a company for such), but because they really do enjoy their instrument. I wish I could pass mine around for people to play and feel (but I'm not paying shipping to everyone on this thread, sorry XDD).
> 
> I have posted many a video with the build, here's the review of mine (since the beginning of this thread was definitely to my inquiry about the brand): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50vO2iiCKTM



Im sorry. Im not going to stand for this any longer.

You have said, you had some QC issues you mentioned to Mat. What were they?

Your video, at 0:50:
Bridge pickup is back to front. To be in phase with the neck pickup, that has to be installed around the wrong way too.
Massive defects in the paint on the bevels.
Intonation not even close to being accurate (I will note, after calling him out on this a few weeks ago, all guitars have been intonated... he's watching)
You've got a black switch, why not gold? Not a defect, just unusual

1:07:
Headstock is tilted to the bass side. The strings run over the nut, angle to the narrowed locking nut, and then just go all over the place from there.
Take a look at the wood defects, under the paint, on the tip of the headstock.

1:27:
clear as day, paint defects

1:59:
Once again, total disregard for neck angle geometry. Look at the bass string. Zero angle over the saddle, and the others are not angled back enough. This causes buzzing. Need to lower your action? no you dont....

3:02:
Bass string is too close to edge of fretboard, and uneven to the treble side. I hope you dont huge a wide vibrato.

3:11-3:13:
Nut area of neck shape is a bit unusual. Now look at the heel...
Also note what could be a paint run.

Im not going to comment on the rest, other than to say the buzzing when playing clean, and your light picking style, is coming through the amp. Is that fret buzz, or 'post saddle' buzz?

Im sure you are stoked with your signature custom guitar. Im also sure you are so excited you cannot see the defects. I understand it is difficult to admit faults, when you have so much invested in a brand. You have promised high res photos on a number of times. Please link us to them, otherwise you'll need to prove my claims wrong with:
Lower body shots, straight on headstock shots, back of neck at both ends, back of body, etc etc. 

Im more than happy to be proven wrong if your video camera 'was dirty and the defects you see on the body were just dust on the lense... that moved exactly with the guitar... it was windy inside that day... and i lost the camera battery and cant take more pics'

This is not an Etherial witch hunt. This is a quality witch hunt. I BUST MY GUT doing the absolute best work i can, to exceed my client's expectations, and 'guitar designers' like this guy are literally shitting all over other luthiers, destroying client's confidence in ordering more customs, and straight up ripping people off. I know of three people, who have said straight up, they are not going ahead with XXXX builder, because of their Etherial experience has literally destroyed their dreams.

And Mat, because we know you're watching, feel free to call me at any time to discuss improving your skills. Ive trained over 100 people on guitar building, contracted to major manufacturers, and have ghost built for others looking for guitars to attract endorsees. If you want to make a living in this trade, you're quickly sabotaging that dream... because the end is near for your brand if this level of quality continues. The word is out now, and you have ex clients that WILL NOT LET UP, if you dont step up. And those that are your supporters will quickly lose interest in sticking up for you against the rest. You can trust me on this free advice... being a 'nice guy' will only get you so far.

I look forward to the day I can post "....ing hell, well done mate!" on an Etherial build thread. I just hope it is sooner than never.


----------



## Necromagnon

I've spot every point in Perry's post, and I'm far far away from a professional builder, I barely build 3 guitars, all with many flaws. That says a lot, imo, on the quality.
That a professional with an incredibly well trained eye see very little flaws and all is a thing, that a dumb builder like me spots this out is another...



ormsby guitars said:


> This is not an Etherial witch hunt. This is a quality witch hunt. I BUST MY GUT doing the absolute best work i can, to exceed my client's expectations, and 'guitar designers' like this guy are literally shitting all over other luthiers, destroying client's confidence in ordering more customs, and straight up ripping people off. I know of three people, who have said straight up, they are not going ahead with XXXX builder, because of their Etherial experience has literally destroyed their dreams.


I 100% agree with this. I've seen in some threads here (not specially this one and it's not directed to Matt specially) many forumers saying: "I won't go for a custom now, with all that shit happening _[BRJ, Invictus, Rotter, and so on]_. I can't trust custom builders anymore."
And that's pretty sad for the profession, and for the dream of Matt and many other like him (like me  ) that would like to become pro one day.


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

Metal_Webb said:


> A detailed breakdown on the ....ups is far, far more useful than second-hand information about so and so's guitar being a bit iffy on arrival.



How is it second hand information when it's coming directly from a person that physically inspected the guitar first hand?



Metal_Webb said:


> To continue on with your analogy:
> A lot of the posts here are by people who don't even use that bank and are swinging by, making a comment on the situation and then hanging about to jeer at the guy who comes to repair the ATM.



Jeer:
verb
1. Make rude and mocking remarks, typically in a loud voice.
"some of the younger men jeered at him"

I haven't read every post in the thread, so I can't say there is no jeering going on, however I have not seen anything that I would describe as jeering, it's just honesty.

Yeah, I probably come across as harsh, unfortunately somebody has to be in this politically correct world gone mad where nobody is wrong, they're just right in a different way.

I might be colourful with language and analogies, but I'm not name calling, I'm not here to hurt people's feelings.

Matt doesn't seem to be able to admit to himself that he's charging premium prices for a sub-par product, or making any apologies for it, I'm just trying to get him and his namby pamby enablers to come back to reality, so that he can learn and grow from this and put it behind him.

As for the repair guy, well nobody is jeering him because he's not here, as you mentioned...



Metal_Webb said:


> Of course, it would be good to get the ATM owner here for his views on the situation first hand but he'd be liable to get run out of town by all the rubber neckers. At the end of the day, I'm just another dude popping in, going, "Heh, that ATM's broken" then continuing on with my life because it doesn't directly affect me.



If Matt would like to weigh in here, he's welcome to, and when he can be honest with himself, I'll be the first one here to pat him on the back and tell him I'm looking forward to his future builds.




Metal_Webb said:


> *I'll be the first to agree when there's a fault with these guitars, a blind man could see that. That they're leaving the shop like it is far below what's expected of anywhere. Matt really needs to get his QC up to scratch and sort out the simple shit that he's messing up with.* The man's got a vision and design skills, needs to work on the execution



This seems to be the general consensus, so if that's your understanding, then what is the problem you're having here?


----------



## prettyordinaryplayer

ormsby guitars said:


> And Mat, because we know you're watching, feel free to call me at any time to discuss improving your skills. Ive trained over 100 people on guitar building, contracted to major manufacturers, and have ghost built for others looking for guitars to attract endorsees. If you want to make a living in this trade, you're quickly sabotaging that dream... because the end is near for your brand if this level of quality continues. The word is out now, and you have ex clients that WILL NOT LET UP, if you dont step up. And those that are your supporters will quickly lose interest in sticking up for you against the rest. You can trust me on this free advice... being a 'nice guy' will only get you so far.
> 
> I look forward to the day I can post "....ing hell, well done mate!" on an Etherial build thread. I just hope it is sooner than never.



Definition of gentleman and example of good sportsmanship, people of Earth, 
Mr. Perry Ormsby.


----------



## sikapple

ormsby guitars said:


> Im sorry. Im not going to stand for this any longer.
> 
> This is not an Etherial witch hunt. This is a quality witch hunt. I BUST MY GUT doing the absolute best work i can, to exceed my client's expectations, and 'guitar designers' like this guy are literally shitting all over other luthiers, destroying client's confidence in ordering more customs, and straight up ripping people off. I know of three people, who have said straight up, they are not going ahead with XXXX builder, because of their Etherial experience has literally destroyed their dreams.



i was not going to post here again...but 
Perry -  and hats off to you.
you deserve a sweet lolly like alcoholic beverage. 
it still surprises me the time you find and efforts you put in to speak wisdom
on your pages and this forum. r e s p e c t. 


this is straight up brutal honesty and forthrightness. 
i am clearly one of them that has been affected. my trust levels have
fallen not only in getting another build from any builder...but also in other aspects in business and life also. 
all due to this experience. its really effed up!

for some...many - these are not just toys we are asking to get built for us. 
these are an expression of character. an extension of us. and very much an outlet ( for me especially) 
and for a minority - our main go to tool for earning a living. its what some live for. 
so that said, i personally want to be proud of what i am using to express all this through. 
proud in every way. tone. feel and aesthetics.

if i wanted a toy i'd spend $350 on ebay. (still would be finished and play better then mine) but, i wanted my dream custom guitar built by a Luthier.
i dont care if he made 100 flawless guitars and my one was the dud one...it still came from his workshop. 
at his standard. complete and finished...in Matt's eyes. 
why? i still to this day do not know.


no offence to jkiernanguitar - but it seems you have missed the whole overall point to all this and why i even posted here. 
also part of the reason why i didn't post here for so long. . . 
because of the thought process like yours. 
its actually really confusing to me.


----------



## schwiz

Shit... I need to get me an Ormsby.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Helstormau said:


> I'm sure that wouldnt be the only reason why he sent it back. I mean, he wouldn't come out and say on his facebook page that. Lucas would be getting a new one because he did a sloppy job of the first one (and with a few cosmeric changes). Just because he says something doesn't mean he is being completely honest.



Lucas (on his profile) and Matt (on the Etherial page) said they were getting features changed to accommodate looks AND playability issues. You can easily scroll back through the Etherial FB page to confirm this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perry Ormsby: I need to buy you a beer...or a few, man, for assisting us common-players in trying to understand exactly what is going wrong here.  Thanks to your post, I can now see the flaws in the guitar. (Granted, I'm just a player, like Necromagnon. Not a builder by any means.) I'll let you know the next time I'm in Australia. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I was chatting with Buster of Humanity's Last Breath today. (Remember, I posted awhile back that he just got an Etherial as well?) 

Well.......he's looking for a new luthier to build something else for him. So, being naturally inquisitive, I asked him about how the Etherial was. And his response:


> "rather not say"


And


> "no man, matt's a good guy
> but the guitar is another story"



BOOM! *sigh*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to Matt...like Perry said...just remember, guys:


----------



## TemjinStrife

OmegaSlayer said:


> I see disingenuosness in putting on the same level a guy who stole money and a guy that did a sloppy work.
> And that's exactly what I condemn about this thread.



I'll cut you a break, since you're new here and didn't actually see those controversies develop 

It's hardly disingenuous to compare Etherial to Roter and BRJ. 

Before they both disappeared with everyone's money, people were defending shoddy craftsmanship and sloppy work. Roter in particular had rabid fanboys claiming that clearly crooked frets just looked that way "because of the angle of the picture." Some were even claiming that the photos were doctored. BRJ released a number of guitars with finish problems, bad fretwork, misaligned dots, the whole nine yards, even before things went south.

This is *exactly* like Roter and BRJ, down to the quality issues and rabid fanboy defenders, except Matt hasn't disappeared with everyone's money. Yet.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

TemjinStrife said:


> I'll cut you a break, since you're new here and didn't actually see those controversies develop
> 
> It's hardly disingenuous to compare Etherial to Roter and BRJ.
> 
> Before they both disappeared with everyone's money, people were defending shoddy craftsmanship and sloppy work. Roter in particular had rabid fanboys claiming that clearly crooked frets just looked that way "because of the angle of the picture." Some were even claiming that the photos were doctored. BRJ released a number of guitars with finish problems, bad fretwork, misaligned dots, the whole nine yards, even before things went south.
> 
> This is *exactly* like Roter and BRJ, down to the quality issues and rabid fanboy defenders, except Matt hasn't disappeared with everyone's money. Yet.



I see...
Thanks for the explaination.
I actually want to understand things, from more sides possible, but I need these kind of posts.

If Matt is following this, well, that is good for him and his future customers.


----------



## jonajon91

ormsby guitars said:


> I look forward to the day I can post "....ing hell, well done mate!" on an Etherial build thread. I just hope it is sooner than never.



http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...239090-etherial-6-string-ff-build-thread.html ???


----------



## thrsher

jonajon91 said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...239090-etherial-6-string-ff-build-thread.html ???



when do you expect your build to be completed and shipped?


----------



## Riley

jonajon91 said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...239090-etherial-6-string-ff-build-thread.html ???



There are already visible issues with that one. We'll see how it is when delivered.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

thrsher said:


> when do you expect your build to be completed and shipped?



Ask CaptainLuckeyBeard...not jonjon.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

thrsher said:


> when do you expect your build to be completed and shipped?



The clear coats have been leveled out and are curing currently, should be completed within the month and here shortly after. I'm not pushing it too hard really. I want to make sure every detail is dead on.



Riley said:


> There are already visible issues with that one. We'll see how it is when delivered.



Really now? Please enlighten me on these then


----------



## Riley

I'll give him a chance to fix it first and comment after it is delivered if they are still there. He is a "professional luthier" so he should be able to identify mistakes.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Riley said:


> I'll give him a chance to fix it first and comment after it is delivered if they are still there. He is a "professional luthier" so he should be able to identify mistakes.



Just remember....."Who's watchin'?"


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Riley said:


> I'll give him a chance to fix it first and comment after it is delivered if they are still there. He is a "professional luthier" so he should be able to identify mistakes.



That seems like a cheap way out. I'm not asking you to tell Matt where they are, I'm saying since you pointed them out, either validate what you're saying or you're just talking out of your ass. So, if you see something wrong with it, point it out.


----------



## Riley

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> That seems like a cheap way out. I'm not asking you to tell Matt where they are, I'm saying since you pointed them out, either validate what you're saying or you're just talking out of your ass. So, if you see something wrong with it, point it out.



I WILL WHEN IT IS DELIVERED! Said that 3 times now.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Riley said:


> I WILL WHEN IT IS DELIVERED! Said that 3 times now.



Why don't you just message the guy? Matt can't see private messages.

(Man, we all act like we like dick here apparently.)


----------



## jonajon91

Riley said:


> There are already visible issues with that one. We'll see how it is when delivered.



Dude this is someones personal build that they have spent their hard earned money on. If you can see something wrong with it you could at least have the common courtesy to say what it is instead of waiting until its too late otherwise you have no ground to stand on saying its bad and it will just look like you are trying to start some anti-etherial bandwagon.
If you can actually see something wrong with it then step up and speak.


----------



## abandonist

Riley said:


> I WILL WHEN IT IS DELIVERED! Said that 3 times now.



This is chump nonsense. Back up your mouth.


----------



## Prophetable

That big clearcoat drip down the front by the knob holes is all I see. In general that build looks pretty decent to me. I'm not eagle-eye expert, though.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Prophetable said:


> That big clearcoat drip down the front by the knob holes is all I see. In general that build looks pretty decent to me. I'm not eagle-eye expert, though.



Yeah, that was a big one, but it's already been sanded down and leveled. I wasn't worried about that. That's been the only issue I've seen.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

What I said some days ago?
People is happy to see others fail and happy to see fellow forumites getting bad works just to pat themselves on the back.
SOOO KEWL.


----------



## BouhZik

Who is happy about that?
Seriously


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> What I said some days ago?
> People is happy to see others fail and happy to see fellow forumites getting bad works just to pat themselves on the back.
> SOOO KEWL.



Yeah man. People sit here and prowl through everything looking for faults just so they can get all giddy and "say, hey I told you so! This luthier sucks!"

People like that are the ones making me sick(er). And that is why I had to clarify things in one of my previous posts (either on this page or on the last page).


----------



## BouhZik

Do you guys want everybody to clap their hands and scream "OMG this is great!" And dont say nothing about the OBVIOUS flaws that everybody (including you) can see?


----------



## BouhZik

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Yeah man. People sit here and prowl through everything looking for faults just so they can judge the work and know if they are going to send this guy their money for a build or not



Fix'ed


----------



## patata

I was wondering the other time,how many people have actually played/owned one?

From the little I talked to matt about a build,he was very kind and responded always within the day(I'm like on the other side of the earth),two days tops.He quoted me a 7FF for a bit more than 1300EUR IIRC.Pretty much your normal specs.It's funny how people expect 5k$ quality from a 1,5k$ guitar.I mean,of course I don't justify him,but you can't get a KIA expecting Ferarri quality,right?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

BouhZik said:


> Fix'ed



While that is predominantly true, please be well aware that the statement does NOT apply to everyone. There are some who are helping, and some who are not. I'm talking about people like Riley who open their mouths with nothing to back it up and they prowl looking for that kind of crap.

Guys like me, SikApple, and others on the other hand are the good guys who are helping you all and posting to warn you and make you consider and reconsider giving a luthier your money.

How's about you go back a few pages and see the guitar I personally shared and posted pictures of last that got everyone fired up? Look and THINK before you try that dumb shit again.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

BouhZik said:


> Do you guys want everybody to clap their hands and scream "OMG this is great!" And dont say nothing about the OBVIOUS flaws that everybody (including you) can see?



Please check Riley's posts in this same page.

@winds
from the last pages you have a more likeable and helpful attitude about the whole matter. Kudos

@patata
for 1300 &#8364; you can buy a PERFECT Ran, maybe not over the top like an Etherial, but a flawless RAN.
I mean, we must be honest and give credit where credit is due.

I honestly am rooting for this underdog guy hoping he delivers.
I see his works are not perfect and someway naive...I mean how can you mount saddles at a wrong angle? you should take measures 50 times before drilling...but I hope he can step up his game so that people won't waste money and "we" will be able to have another good luthier choice.


----------



## Churchie777

patata said:


> It's funny how people expect 5k$ quality from a 1,5k$ guitar.I mean,of course I don't justify him,but you can't get a KIA expecting Ferarri quality,right?


 
I dont think thats what people are expecting, 1.5k id expect NO faults the faults on here are pretty big ones. im sure as hell you wouldnt open the case after spending that kind of money see the .... ups you see and go "ahwell its not a 5k build its ok"


----------



## asher

patata said:


> I was wondering the other time,how many people have actually played/owned one?
> 
> From the little I talked to matt about a build,he was very kind and responded always within the day(I'm like on the other side of the earth),two days tops.He quoted me a 7FF for a bit more than 1300EUR IIRC.Pretty much your normal specs.It's funny how people expect 5k$ quality from a 1,5k$ guitar.I mean,of course I don't justify him,but you can't get a KIA expecting Ferarri quality,right?


 

No. But you do expect to be able to drive the Kia off the lot, there to be no finish damage or scratched interiors, the wheels to be aligned, the power steering to work, all cylinders firing properly, etc.


----------



## BouhZik

Wings of Obsidian said:


> While that is predominantly true, please be well aware that the statement does NOT apply to everyone. There are some who are helping, and some who are not. I'm talking about people like Riley who open their mouths with nothing to back it up and they prowl looking for that kind of crap.
> 
> Guys like me, SikApple, and others on the other hand are the good guys who are helping you all and posting to warn you and make you consider and reconsider giving a luthier your money.
> 
> How's about you go back a few pages and see the guitar I personally shared and posted pictures of last that got everyone fired up? Look and THINK before you try that dumb shit again.



so.... that dumb shit is predominantly true. predominantly true dumb shit is ok for me. 

in the end, what do you want? being the good guy, who warned people about the flaws?

well... good job then! and thank you very much, Wings of Obsidian!!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> It's funny how people expect 5k$ quality from a 1,5k$ guitar.



Ummm....nope.



Churchie777 said:


> I dont think thats what people are expecting, 1.5k id expect NO faults the faults on here are pretty big ones. im sure as hell you wouldnt open the case after spending that kind of money see the .... ups you see and go "ahwell its not a 5k build its ok"



This. ^ For anything larger than $1K, I expect ZERO faults (but maybe the occasional tiny thing, like a premature tiny crack at the neck joint or something SUPER TINY...) But the fact is, I can go get a $200 bottom-of-the-barrel starter Ibanez kit and IT WILL BE FLAWLESS...unlike Matt's $2.5K+ "pro-priced" builds.

See the point?

The fact is, (and I've said it numerous times on this thread already,) a production line guitar passes through hundreds of hands, which leaves more room for error or room for a flaw to go unnoticed and the blame end up being lost. With a custom, less people are touching it (i.e. - a team of 1 to 8 people max from what I've seen), and due to less hands touching the axe, as well as the higher price, there is expected to be less margin for error (and mostly definitely less acceptance for it as you KNOW who to point the finger at when something goes wrong or when the eyes in a small team examine and find a flaw).


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

BouhZik said:


> so.... that dumb shit is predominantly true. predominantly true dumb shit is ok for me.
> 
> in the end, what do you want? being the good guy, who warned people about the flaws?
> 
> well... good job then! and thank you very much, Wings of Obsidian!!



I don't get what you're saying. I think you misinterpreted my post...


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> The fact is, (and I've said it numerous times on this thread already,) a production line guitar passes through hundreds of hands, which leaves more room for error or room for a flaw to go unnoticed and the blame end up being lost. With a custom, less people are touching it (i.e. - a team of 1 to 8 people max from what I've seen), and due to less hands touching the axe, as well as the higher price, there is expected to be less margin for error (and mostly definitely less acceptance for it as you KNOW who to point the finger at when something goes wrong or when the eyes in a small team examine and find a flaw).


I don't really agree. In one hand, you're right. But in the other hand, having several professional having their hands on the object is as much eyes to see flaws. When you're working 24/7 on the same stuff, you completely loose objectivity, and you need external feedback to be aware of everything.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Necromagnon said:


> I don't really agree. In one hand, you're right. But in the other hand, having several professional having their hands on the object is as much eyes to see flaws. When you're working 24/7 on the same stuff, you completely loose objectivity, and you need external feedback to be aware of everything.



No.

When your own quality control is the thing that provides you with a living, you do everything you can to protect it.

Or, you are one of the people that does not care/does not see it.

It is very easy to step away from your work, leave it a few days, and look at it with fresh eyes.


Headstock has some minor chipping after routing. I could have shaved it down, but this was for a run of four guitars that would be in a store next to each other. Someone MIGHT notice. 







tuners were offset 2mm, meaning the string pull wasnt perfectly straight. Client couldnt see it. He was there at the workshop to pick this guitar up when I cut it. Imagine his thoughts. He had to wait six months longer, but he got a flawless guitar, and has a $5000+ instrument on order currently.






Surface checking on the end grain revealed after routing. This was a student's guitar in one of my courses. Too bad. You're staying late to fix it. He is now a pro luthier, and has said "That moment when you cut my guitar in half, I wanted to just hit you. But that's when I knew I had to really push my own limits if I want to do this for a living, because you are going to be my competiton"


----------



## Necromagnon

ormsby guitars said:


> No.
> 
> When your own quality control is the thing that provides you with a living, you do everything you can to protect it.
> 
> Or, you are one of the people that does not care/does not see it.
> 
> It is very easy to step away from your work, leave it a few days, and look at it with fresh eyes.


Yes, sure. But what I wanted to say is that it's easier if other people spontaneously come see the work and spot defects. And your sentence _"It is very easy to step away from your work, leave it a few days, and look at it with fresh eyes." _was (very) implicitely included in my last sentence. An external feedback may be provided by someone else, or by your own with fresh eyes. "Tomorrow's another day."


PS: I trully agree with your QC politics. When you want to build high end things (no matter what), there's no room even for the smallest invisible defect. If one day I sharpen my buidling skills and I start something in this field, I'll be on the same way, for sure.


----------



## patata

ormsby guitars said:


> He is now a pro luthier,



Can you provide a name?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Well, ever since my buddy received this complete f-ing dud of a guitar, he has not touched it (in its rather unplayable condition) and has left is hanging up as a nice, expensive piece of wall-art.

He took it down from the wall today to find this.........and it's getting bigger and bigger every day. (Remember to keep in mind, that the pickup height cannot be adjusted due to the mounting screws not being in the proper place, so it can't be causing this. It's clearly the wood breaking.....and well.....wood + carbon.)

Mr. Perry Ormsby: you were correct.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Perfect proof that even when sealed with lacquer, wood that has not been dried properly will move. It is enevitable. You cannot stop it. 

One part of me is like "I'm always right, dude!". Another is "Man... I wish I wasn't always right"


----------



## Necromagnon

ormsby guitars said:


> Perfect proof that even when sealed with lacquer, wood that has not been dried properly will move. It is enevitable. You cannot stop it.
> 
> One part of me is like "I'm always right, dude!". Another is "Man... I wish I wasn't always right"


May I ask what tomorrow winning numbers will be for the lotery?


----------



## ormsby guitars

I can guarantee that they will be between 1 and 45


----------



## RickSchneider

As a thread involving so much Australian stuff, I'd like to say happy Australia Day to everybody! 

On another less nice note, I can't believe that that white guitar is getting worse than how it came. Has the owner spoken to Matt much recently about it?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RickSchneider said:


> On another less nice note, I can't believe that that white guitar is getting worse than how it came. Has the owner spoken to Matt much recently about it?



Matt won't respond to him. According to what info I can gather, the business was done, and now, it's DONE.
(If you can infer what I'm trying to say there.)


----------



## RickSchneider

That is just awful, I don't understand how he can continue his business with things like that left so unresolved...


----------



## naw38

That's very strange. I had a couple of complaints about my Etherial, and when I emailed him about it, he said he'd be happy to fix them free of charge, even though they'd involve a deal of work. 

I haven't sent him the guitar because it plays fine, and it's the only guitar I've got. 

For the curious, along the headstock behind the nut, the head itself is too large/high, and the higher strings are actually resting on the headstock.

Is that bad? It's really bad isn't it? I've never admitted that to anyone but Matt before. It plays fine. I just try not think about it.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RickSchneider said:


> That is just awful, I don't understand how he can continue his business with things like that left so unresolved...



Well, you need to understand, that when the build arrived flawed and "damaged", Matt refused a rebuild, but he "probably" did offer some kind of monetary compensation as a partial refund for some of the problems.

Now, this is a few months later, so what'll happen? Is the owner going to contact Matt and say: "Hey, the guitar is cracking up the center. I want ANOTHER partial refund on top of the partial refund you gave me all these months ago"?

It doesn't exactly work like that... Not even at WalMart...


----------



## ormsby guitars

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Well, you need to understand, that when the build arrived flawed and "damaged", Matt refused a rebuild, but he "probably" did offer some kind of monetary compensation as a partial refund for some of the problems.
> 
> Now, this is a few months later, so what'll happen? Is the owner going to contact Matt and say: "Hey, the guitar is cracking up the center. I want ANOTHER partial refund on top of the partial refund you gave me all these months ago"?
> 
> It doesn't exactly work like that... Not even at WalMart...



The Australian consumer laws are very protective of the customer. This would be classed as an unsaleable product, and he would be entitled to a full refund.


----------



## FIXXXER

naw38 said:


> he said he'd be happy to fix them free of charge



yeah, seems legit...

...but seriously, OF COURSE it has to be free of charge, what else? 

delivering faulty work and then charge for the repair, 
yeah that's all we needed! 

IMHO "fixing" a custom instrument that costs thousands of dollars is not possible and definitively not desirable. jeez,we're not talking a
200$ squier strat, i would not want to pay loads of cash to get anything that's not damn PERFECT. 

speaking of "fixing" how can anybody fix some major faults by not
degrading the overall quality of the guitar? 

it's just not possible!


----------



## FIXXXER

ormsby guitars said:


> The Australian consumer laws are very protective of the customer. This would be classed as an unsaleable product, and he would be entitled to a full refund.



man that's a dream, here in germany it's the complete opposite,
as a customer you have practically no rights when it comes to 
any for of custom work :/


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I'm done, man. (F)uck this shit...


----------



## naw38

FIXXXER said:


> yeah, seems legit...
> 
> ...but seriously, OF COURSE it has to be free of charge, what else?



Yeah, fair point. I'm not trying to justify or defend sending out faulty/sub-par instruments, all that _I'm_ saying is that he wasn't a dick about when I contacted him, was happy to do something about it and didn't try to avoid me.


----------



## FIXXXER

naw38 said:


> Yeah, fair point. I'm not trying to justify or defend sending out faulty/sub-par instruments, all that _I'm_ saying is that he wasn't a dick about when I contacted him, was happy to do something about it and didn't try to avoid me.



you're right, generally this is a nice move but then again, offering a fix means that he's pretty much aware of the faults, which again makes him a complete dick


----------



## capoeiraesp

Naw, please post pics of the issues.


----------



## abandonist

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Well...the same Etherial artist who messaged me awhile back and told me to back off of Matt's case here just had a massive spat with me on Facebook (for his own enjoyment...in his words).
> 
> It's funny...you can become friends with a person, they can support you through the good times and bad, you can even put their name in the "Thank You" section of your CD's linear notes, and in the end, they'll still turn into a total prick and attack you personally just for their own enjoyment because you were doing your duty and informing fellow players of shoddy craftsmanship on here...
> 
> So now I've lost a friend over this thread. (I swear, is the whole world stuck in a high-school drama mentality right now?...)
> 
> Well, let me put it this way, the guy is a personal friend of Matt's. (Anyone who keeps tabs on the Etherial roster can find out who it is.) I don't want him as my friend anymore. Period. And if that's the kind of immature, bullshit-filled company Matt chooses to keep, then he certainly wouldn't have my business anyway. (The old adage: you are only as good as the company you keep.)
> 
> I'm done, man. (F)uck this shit...



If I may, this isn't relevant to the thread and makes you come off in a rather childish light. We just want information on Etherial guitars, not your dealings with friends - whether Matt's or otherwise. I have some SUPER sketchy friends. Don't judge me by the company I keep.


----------



## naw38

capoeiraesp said:


> Naw, please post pics of the issues.



Will do soon, it will be from an iPad though so don't expect quality, I'm not Chan Wook-Park.

And I don't think him being aware of the fault makes him a complete dick. In my case, he seemed to think the fault was minor enough that it would not effect the instruments playability in any way. And perhaps he's right. Maybe he just has a funny idea of quality control or what constitutes perfection in his instruments. 

Or maybe he's an arsehole who just thought I wouldn't notice and he'd get away with it. I don't know. In my case, I'm happy with the guitar and enjoyed dealing with him. The instrument plays well, it has all the features I wanted, it sounds mean as. The inlay wrk/paint job/aesthetic junk is awesome - and honestly, I went in knowing that he has a tendency to sloppy aesthetics. Because of that expectation, I was prepared to not care. Which in the end didn't matter, it looks flawless.

If I'd received one of his other, shittier builds that seem to be falling apart, well, obviously I'd be spewing. But I didn't. So, yay for me I guess.


----------



## RedDog22

I think the distances involved, for some of the clients, massively complicates issues and raises the pricetag considerably & extends the turn around time because it will go back in the que along w/ existing new builds presumably. I wouldn't take a custom like that to a big box store to have someone work on say- the headstock/woodwork as an alternative either.


----------



## Infused1

Man, this thread has got some total failure in it. I really hope more people can step up to the plate and take care of these issues, Im seeing quite a few so called custom shops running like this now, and I agree with Ormsby, this is a stain on any genuine company or luthier that does good work. Im getting ready to open up after 5 years of prototyping and testing designs and if I saw just 1 error that wasnt say a clear coat, or finish issue it would be going into a pile and getting cut up just like Ormsby's! Just the simple fact anyone could let that kind of stuff out to the public shows they have no ethics whatsoever.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Overall, and I think this applies from Strandberg to StrictlySeven, if you start messing around on forums before contacting the luthier, you won't get too far.
(Considering some luthier won't send you halh-assed guitars, but I think you got what I mean)


----------



## naw38

Five bucks says this doesn't work.

Edit: God damnit.

Edit:





I did it!


----------



## ormsby guitars

You could drive a truck under that first fret action.

And the headstock and string action? 

Wait... This is the first guitar ever with lower headstock action than fretboard action! :/


----------



## AwDeOh

It might not be entirely salvageable...


----------



## naw38

Well, it plays mostly fine. I would love to have lower action though, when I'm two hand tapping especially I feel like I need to punch the strings to hit the notes.

Does it look like the sort of thing that will cause major problems down the road though?


----------



## capoeiraesp

Which guitar is this? The shot you provided demonstrates a lot of issues.


----------



## naw38

The 10 string. The red one.


----------



## ormsby guitars

You'll be able to lower the nut slots, but then most strings will be touching the headstock. That will cause tuning issues. Provide a pic of the bridge from side on and ill let you know if that can be lowered too.


----------



## Churchie777

naw38 said:


> Edit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did it!


 
Thats insane he even let that through, Etherial has to be the worse shit heaps being let out i felt sorry for the Matt (slightly) for this thread but god damn it just gets worse, Fair enough say you are learning and trying to perfect your craft but go back to practicing and stop selling UNTIL you have some sort of decent level of craftmanship


----------



## Prophetable

I've been trying not to jump on the bashing in this thread but that headstock is an abomination.


----------



## naw38

This saddens me greatly. I absolutely love this guitar and have tried really hard not to think about the headstock. That said, the higher strings keep in tune really well.

The low C# on the other hand...


----------



## Danukenator

It's too bad he keeps putting out products like this. I honestly think he needs to slow down and do some practice builds.

Shit, he could do a deal where you get them at cost + shipping with the understanding they are potential lemons if need be. But to sell products like this is just wrong.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

He's learning how to build guitars at the expense of his customers. 

He shouldn't be building commercial guitars full stop. 

I don't know any other business area where this would be acceptable.


----------



## capoeiraesp

capoeiraesp said:


> A custom guitar, built from the ideas you've always dreamed of, should STUN you. There isn't room for 'pretty nice', or compromises.
> 
> Commission a dream, not an excuse.



I still stand by this almost 1 year on.

Naw38, can we get more pics? Bridge etc.


----------



## naw38

I don't really think there's anything else on the guitar noteworthy that could be described as a flaw, and I don't know what you're looking for exactly on the bridge, so apologies if these photos are not helpful.

On the low C#somebody suggested putting some paper underneath the saddle to help with intonation, so that's what that is if you can see it there.


----------



## abandonist

Brother I hope that's just the angle of the photo or that bridge pup is ....ing wonky as all.


----------



## naw38

You mean how it doesn't run parallel to the bridge, or how it appears to be slipping into the body on the neck pickup side? That one's just camera angle.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Looks like the string hits the front of the saddle block?

You dont need the paper there, get rid of it. However, the bridge pieces has been put in the wrong spot. Let me guess, at the 12th fret, you G is sharp?


----------



## naw38

ormsby guitars said:


> Looks like the string hits the front of the saddle block?
> 
> You dont need the paper there, get rid of it. However, the bridge pieces has been put in the wrong spot. Let me guess, at the 12th fret, you G is sharp?




Nope, not at all.


----------



## abandonist

naw38 said:


> You mean how it doesn't run parallel to the bridge, or how it appears to be slipping into the body on the neck pickup side? That one's just camera angle.



The latter.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

I need some popcorn...


----------



## Danukenator

Lorcan Ward said:


> He's learning how to build guitars at the expense of his customers.
> 
> He shouldn't be building commercial guitars full stop.
> 
> I don't know any other business area where this would be acceptable.



IDK if this was directed at me or not but I'll respond anyway.

I completely agree. At the prices he charges, even the "discounter" prices being thrown around, they are completely out of line. Shit, even at cheap prices they are absurdly flawed. 

My post was more reflecting on how he could have "practiced" using customers money in a _slightly_ more ethical manner. I'd still say he is using customers money, even at cost, to give out poor quality instruments. 

At this point, I'm completely past my original stance of "I hope he gets better down the line." He needs to completely stop and get his shit together before he even thinks about making more guitars.

EDIT: Wings, if you don't mind, what exactly has happened on Facebook?


----------



## ormsby guitars

Lorcan Ward said:


> He's learning how to build guitars at the expense of his customers.
> 
> He shouldn't be building commercial guitars full stop.
> 
> I don't know any other business area where this would be acceptable.



No, he is not learning. He's put out, what, 40-50 guitars?

I say it again: I see less faults with my student's guitars, with their first builds. Granted, they have guidance, but 90% have no woodworking skills.

The longer this bullshit goes on, the more his reputation is tarnished. At first, I was feeling sorry for the guy. Im a massive supporter of having more luthiers out there in the world. Now, at this rate, the way he is going, I just want him out of the business. 

He has no business building guitars for money. He has no clue on basic fundamental woodworking skills and timber characteristics. He has no eye for quality control. He has no moral compass, by allowing faults to be accepted. He has no idea of basic plan drawing (he can do a mockup though!) and nearly every instrument so far has had neck angle issues, or headstock angle issues, or strings that get closer to the fretboard end, the higher up the neck they go. He has no idea how to lacquer, nor prep the surfaces and timber for lacquer. He has no soldering skills, and no idea on pickup phasing and positioning. He has proven to be unable to consider string pull, or correctly cut nuts. He has shown total disregard for the selection of materials in each guitar.

I encourage EVERYONE who has a deposit down, to demand a swift and immediate refund. If your build is partially complete, you should be cancelling, and asking for a refund. The Australian Consumer laws will protect you, and I am very happy to be an expert witness in any claims against his work.

Here is a link for you:
Problem with goods - Consumer Protection - Department of Commerce

Mat Brown, you need to step up. You need training, although I honestly feel that as much passion as you have, it probably wont be enough. If you have an issue with anything Ive said, give me a call from an unblocked number, and I will gladly take the time to discuss. You know who I am. Further more, if you want real, genuine luthier and woodwork training, I can provide. It will cost you a metric shit tonne, but will be small drop in the ocean compared to what you will lose if you dont. 

You need to go back to basic builds, develop skills, and then move onwards and upwards. However, I honestly feel as though it is already too late.


----------



## NaYoN

Danukenator said:


> EDIT: Wings, if you don't mind, what exactly has happened on Facebook?



https://www.facebook.com/ONAN2010/posts/10203277651565957?stream_ref=10

Not much, him enacting his crusade against Etherial guitars and personally insulting me among other things.

(Wings is Lucas)

Apparently I'm a prick who hides his guitar. Good to know.


Edit: I think that criticizing the work of Etherial guitars is totally fine and everything should be held up to scrutiny, I think personally attacking people for it is way over the line - there is no need for this to be rude and full of ad hominem attacks. Just because you are unhappy with a luthier's work does not mean that you should be dicks to people.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> https://www.facebook.com/ONAN2010/posts/10203277651565957?stream_ref=10
> 
> Not much, him enacting his crusade against Etherial guitars and personally insulting me among other things.
> 
> (Wings is Lucas)
> 
> Apparently I'm a prick who hides his guitar. Good to know.
> 
> 
> Edit: I think that criticizing the work of Etherial guitars is totally fine and everything should be held up to scrutiny, I think personally attacking people for it is way over the line - there is no need for this to be rude and full of ad hominem attacks. Just because you are unhappy with a luthier's work does not mean that you should be dicks to people.



I COULD upload endless screenshots of Kim being a little high school girl and doing nothing but randomly messaging me straight CHILDISH personal unprovoked insults ("gay", "faggot", "queer", "bitch", "loser", "waste of space", etc.) for SIXTEEN HOURS (and counting), but I don't think I will. He clearly made himself look like a fool already. --- Who the heck has that much free time to just let things brood and attack people anyway? Maybe he can use that time to help Matt improve his building so that the customers won't have to suffer, and so that WE (on here) won't have to follow through with the duty of warning our fellow players that: "Hey, place an order with this guy, you WILL not get a perfect axe and it WILL have problems".


----------



## RickSchneider

Yeah as far as calling out Etherial goes it's fair game, but to really call out the artists who (mostly) have fine builds as far as we know seems a little too far. Nayon was happy with his build if i remember correctly, and you should probably just respect that rather than calling him out for hiding it. Also I heard nothing about Buster from HLB's custom.

As much as I think the message about Etherial must be spread, I don't want to see anymore personal attacks or tension between people in the community. If people don't want to be a part of picking apart Etherial (whether by keeping quiet or otherwise), that's their prerogative. Fortunately for you there are many people on your side, and it shouldn't be necessary to call out those who aren't on a personal level


----------



## abandonist

Wings of Obsidian said:


> This personal shit involving Matt and other Etherial artists on Facebook against me is getting out of hand... I'm surprised none of them have tried to spill it over onto here, onto this thread... Maybe they are afriad to because it looks like you guys are right in your dissection of these builds after all.



Dude, I'm telling you again. We don't give a shit about anything on facebook. Keep it about the guitars.


----------



## InfinityCollision

What abandonist said. Also: regardless of any of the surrounding events, you look like a child, both here and on Facebook. Inflaming the situation will not do any good.


----------



## Hollowway

NaYoN said:


> https://www.facebook.com/ONAN2010/posts/10203277651565957?stream_ref=10
> 
> Not much, him enacting his crusade against Etherial guitars and personally insulting me among other things.
> 
> (Wings is Lucas)
> 
> Apparently I'm a prick who hides his guitar. Good to know.
> 
> 
> Edit: I think that criticizing the work of Etherial guitars is totally fine and everything should be held up to scrutiny, I think personally attacking people for it is way over the line - there is no need for this to be rude and full of ad hominem attacks. Just because you are unhappy with a luthier's work does not mean that you should be dicks to people.



Yeah, I agree that there's no need to be mean to others. I'm not sure if he said other things about you, and I'm not sure why the "prick" comment, but I think what he meant about "hiding" the guitar is that there seem to be copious pictures of flawed Etherial builds, but not many of the unflawed ones, and that has some people suspicious that maybe there really aren't any unflawed ones. 

Personally, I gotta agree with abondonist in not really caring about what happens on FB. I can't stand FB because 99% of what happens on it either isn't my business or isn't interesting enough to be my business.


----------



## NaYoN

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I agree that there's no need to be mean to others. I'm not sure if he said other things about you, and I'm not sure why the "prick" comment, but I think what he meant about "hiding" the guitar is that there seem to be copious pictures of flawed Etherial builds, but not many of the unflawed ones, and that has some people suspicious that maybe there really aren't any unflawed ones.
> 
> Personally, I gotta agree with abondonist in not really caring about what happens on FB. I can't stand FB because 99% of what happens on it either isn't my business or isn't interesting enough to be my business.



As I said earlier in this thread, we've already discussed pictures of my guitar to the death on several threads before, and people made up their minds, so if they'd like, they can go digging for them. I see no need to necrobump old discussions to fuel any flame wars. If that makes me a prick, so be it.


----------



## Pikka Bird

abandonist said:


> Dude, I'm telling you again. We don't give a shit about anything on facebook. Keep it about the guitars.



Well, someone asked, sooo...:



Danukenator said:


> EDIT: Wings, if you don't mind, what exactly has happened on Facebook?


----------



## Danukenator

Given Etherial was supposedly sending people after Wings or whatever, I wanted to see what was said to make up my own mind.

There's a reason people cared about what ViK said on Facebook, it speaks to his character.


----------



## NaYoN

Danukenator said:


> Given Etherial was supposedly sending people after Wings or whatever, I wanted to see what was said to make up my own mind.
> 
> There's a reason people cared about what ViK said on Facebook, it speaks to his character.



I posted a link in the previous page. From my understanding and talking to Etherial people it's Wings just harassing Etherial members because every person in the private Etherial facebook group said they were bothered by him and have blocked him or will block him soon. Considering most of them have him blocked, I don't see how they are "sending people after him". Matt himself isn't even involved in this at all.

As I said earlier, there are two sides to every story.


EDIT: The linked post was deleted. It was a post on Kim Forbes's wall with Kim saying his personality and character was being attacked online by haters and Wings came into the thread with screenshots of PMs between himself and Kim and both had made pretty inflammatory comments, with Wings insulting me and Etherial and Kim insulting Wings. It was an ugly conversation but it did not look like "Etherial sending artists to attack him". Honestly, I don't like that FB drama is spilling over here but Wings has been on a crusade against Etherial for quite a while and while I think it's alright to be upset with the guitars, I don't think it's ok to harass the artists. Also, even if you are not a fan of the guitars, I don't understand why you'd be on a mission to shit on the brand constantly for more than 6 months. Just let it go man.


----------



## jonajon91

As far as the facebook nonsense. THIS



NaYoN said:


> Matt himself isn't even involved in this at all.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> every person in the private Etherial facebook _*page*_ said they were bothered by him and have blocked him or will block him soon.



False. YOU are the only one who has blocked me. And I have blocked Kim. I'm still on very good terms with all the other Etherial artists and do have upcoming collaborations with some of them. In the meantime, some Etherial artists are MESSAGING ME (not the other way around) and are now curious as to why I have continued to be a follower of this thread and have helped point out flaws.

You guys say that I'm on a crusade against Etherial? WRONG. I'm just doing my duty of warning fellow players of the dangers and future disappointment they will face, but I also am speaking out against a businessman who up and mistreated me as a potential customer (the two just so happen to coincide). --- How on earth can I "be on a crusade against a company" when I'm in touch and collaborating with some of the company's artists still?

Insert a quarter and try again, man.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> EDIT: The linked post was deleted. It was a post on Kim Forbes's wall with Kim saying his personality and character was being attacked online by haters and Wings came into the post with screenshots of PMs between himself and Kim and both had made pretty inflammatory comments, with Wings insulting Etherial and Kim insulting Wings. It was an ugly conversation but it did not look like "Etherial sending artists to attack him". Honestly, I don't like that FB drama is spilling over here, but Wings has been on a crusade against Etherial for quite a while and while I think it's alright to be upset with the guitars, I don't think it's ok to harass the artists. Also, even if you are not a fan of the guitars, I don't understand why you'd be on a mission to shit on the brand constantly for more than 6 months. Just let it go man.



I decided to just do the mature thing: I dropped it all.

I blocked Kim (and others involved). And then I reported Kim's vile harassment to Facebook, who obviously must've taken my side and removed his spew of irrational threatening, vulgarity, and immaturity.

So, this particular instance is over and erased. *POOF* Like it never happened.


----------



## Necromagnon

Great, I was lacking a new "teenage love story" tv show.


----------



## Danukenator

Necromagnon said:


> Great, I was lacking a new "teenage love story" tv show.



I'm trying to figure out who to ship! I love my parings!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Well, it looks like the Azwen model isn't only for Lucas Mann. Rob and Matt of Exotype are getting a pair made. (Must be nice since the neck on Rob's snapped due to a car wreck, and both guys had a few unspoken problems with their custom builds.)


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Well, it looks like the Azwen model isn't only for Lucas Mann. Rob and Matt of Exotype are getting a pair made. (Must be nice since the neck on Rob's snapped due to a car wreck, and both guys had a few unspoken problems with their custom builds.)



A few other dudes I know are getting Azwens as well, but more customized versions. Azwen is going to be a "thing" with Etherial. Also another upcoming unannounced model that I'm prototyping.


----------



## naw38

I spent my spare moments during the day(two or three minutes at a time, I have a kid) trying to find how long it took Wings to go from "Oh wow, I'm gonna get an Etherial!" to full on crusader of justice mode(hyperbole, can't think of a better phrase).

Twenty two pages. Whew. 

I fiddle with the bridge on my low C# every day, and that string is only ever going to sound good played open or on the first fret. Everywhere else rattles and sounds completely lifeless with no sustain whatsoever.


----------



## patata

Azwen can be really classy with a few changes,really aggressive with other as well.
Beautiful shape


----------



## Helstormau

patata said:


> Azwen can be really classy with a few changes



Hopefully one of the changes will be that the guitar isn't dirty like the first one


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> A few other dudes I know are getting Azwens as well, but more customized versions. Azwen is going to be a "thing" with Etherial. Also another upcoming unannounced model that I'm prototyping.



Whatever happened to that other series Matt was supposed to be doing? The Blacksteel or Blackstar or whatever it was called...



naw38 said:


> Twenty two pages. Whew.
> 
> _*Almost a year. Whew.
> *_



Fixed.


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Whatever happened to that other series Matt was supposed to be doing? The Blacksteel or Blackstar or whatever it was called...



I don't know what series this is, might be something I'm not privy to.


----------



## DredFul

Wings of Obsidian said:


>









sorry for off topic


----------



## Purelojik

This has been a fascinating read actually. It really is interesting to hear the lengths people go to justify faults in craftsmanship. Im a doctor studying for my medical license and i build guitars on the side, i've sold one so far because it was flawless, as far as i could tell with my own discerning eyes. Which brings me to another point.

im wondering if etherial just *cannot *see certain flaws as being reasons to start over. When i built my first guitar i was like " oh a guitar! i can sell these now!!" then i made another and did much better. I looked back and realized the first build was riddled with horrible mistakes. This process continued and im still learning and improving. Im working within the limitations of my tools and only using woods and materials i know will yield a terrific guitar. 

I believe if he just chose a few crowd tested models, with a few materials and finish options and made perfect guitars using that, THEN seek endorsee's and people to rave about it, it would work better. But everyone these days is going ass backwards as far as the process is concerned. 

I've also studied Mr. Perry's youtube series of the diary of building a multiscale guitar, those videos he posts are a wealth of information. I messaged him about a year or two ago thanking him for that.


----------



## DredFul

Purelojik said:


> im wondering if etherial just *cannot *see certain flaws as being reasons to start over.



This.

I'm building my first guitar now and I sanded my fretboard up to 1000 grit. It has couple little scratches from me chiseling away glue from inlays. A person not knowing they were there wouldn't probably notice them but if a luthier checked it he would definitely see them. But I just *can't be bothered* to sand the fretboard back to 150 grit or something. I'm just too lazy for that. Maybe there is something similar going on with etherial? Like "oh, I messed up a bit there. Well, I'll do better next time!"


----------



## ikarus

DredFul said:


> This.
> 
> I'm building my first guitar now and I sanded my fretboard up to 1000 grit. It has couple little scratches from me chiseling away glue from inlays. A person not knowing they were there wouldn't probably notice them but if a luthier checked it he would definitely see them. But I just *can't be bothered* to sand the fretboard back to 150 grit or something. I'm just too lazy for that. Maybe there is something similar going on with etherial? Like "oh, I messed up a bit there. Well, I'll do better next time!"



The difference is that you dont have a customer who pays you a lot of money for your build. If you can live with small cosmetic flaws, than you can just leave it. But a customer who spends his hard earned money expects a flawless instrument and unfortunatly we are not talking about little cosmetic flaws on Etherial builds most of the time.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I've been away for awhile. So....folks still buying these abortions?


----------



## Purelojik

ikarus said:


> The difference is that you dont have a customer who pays you a lot of money for your build. If you can live with small cosmetic flaws, than you can just leave it. But a customer who spends his hard earned money expects a flawless instrument and unfortunatly we are not talking about little cosmetic flaws on Etherial builds most of the time.



i think thats the point hes trying to make as well


----------



## RedDog22

I was wondering if he lives so far in the Outback that its impossible/impractical for him to hire more people, who could improve QC, because they'd have to literally move there? Still doesn't absolve one from delivering a product as promised- Business 101.

Good vision but one has to have consistent quality before jumping in head-first & taking orders pell mell without prominent disclaimers considering some examples in this thread & the prices & wait times involved.

Its just too easy these days to make sexy, first-class looking websites to publicize one's wares taking pics of only certain axes in certain angles in certain lighting. That gets the word out like wildfire. Add in a couple of endorsements and you have the world banging on your door when one in three, for instance, might be without flaws.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

RedDog22 said:


> I was wondering if he lives so far in the Outback that its impossible/impractical for him to hire more people, who could improve QC,



Less people on the job = more money in YOUR pocket as the owner. Business 201.


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Less people on the job = more money in YOUR pocket as the owner. Business 201.



I don't think greed is the issue here considering he often ends up paying for a lot of stuff out of the pocket because his budget goes over his initial estimate. He probably can't afford to hire other people.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

NaYoN said:


> I don't think greed is the issue here considering he often ends up paying for a lot of stuff out of the pocket because his budget goes over his initial estimate. He probably can't afford to hire other people.



Ouch. That's not at all good and shows both inexperience and stupidity on the builder's part. Dick ups like this are what give you BRJ-scale issues. Heck, this issue is Roter-level.


----------



## Pikka Bird

RedDog22 said:


> Its just too easy these days to make sexy, first-class looking websites to publicize one's wares taking pics of only certain axes in certain angles in certain lighting.



Well, his website is rather amateurish, and the pictures on the site are... "decent", but not really good at all. And the mockups... 

I'm not piling on the hate, but I really do think he needs to step back for a while, take a deep breath, and redo everything from scratch since there seems to be a market for that thing he's doing. If he could do it well then he's got a thing going here.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

And that moment when your nightmares come true.

This face says it all.


----------



## NaYoN

Pikka Bird said:


> Well, his website is rather amateurish, and the pictures on the site are... "decent", but not really good at all. And the mockups...
> 
> I'm not piling on the hate, but I really do think he needs to step back for a while, take a deep breath, and redo everything from scratch since there seems to be a market for that thing he's doing. If he could do it well then he's got a thing going here.



He is in the process of doing so. What happens next, who knows. We'll see.


----------



## Necris

I'm utterly baffled as to why people continue to come to this guys defense. I was one of the people who was burned by Roter which makes this all the more infuriating to see.

What makes his lack of business sense more forgivable than Bernie Rico Jrs, ViKs, Roter's or Invictus's (etc.)?

What makes his sending out guitars that are clearly flawed more forgivable than when Roter/BRJ/Invictus/Acacia/Emperion did it in the past or do it now? 

Why is it perfectly ok with some of you that _he _improves his shoddy craftsmanship on the customers dime when another luthier would get thrown to the wolves for it? 

Is it because the cost is lower; because _so far_ he's been able to make things right; because he's just a really likeable guy?

Does the idea of customs at a price which is comparatively much lower than those of more established luthiers really hinder ones common sense that much? Even taking in to consideration the prices he charges many of the instruments he puts out are still completely unacceptable. 

We've seen luthiers go through nearly identical cycles on this forum again and again and again and I can't think of a single time it has ended in anything but the collapse of a company, ripped off customers, shitty guitars and a luthier disappearing off the face of the earth with a members money.


----------



## thesnowdog

Pikka Bird said:


> Well, his website is rather amateurish, and the pictures on the site are... "decent", but not really good at all. And the mockups...



I stopped looking after reading this blurb: Sarah Longfield - Artists - Custom Made Electric Guitars For Sale - Etherial . How anyone can push that 'promotional' text live is beyond me.

In my experience an eye for detail is mostly innate and it would appear he just doesn't have it.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necris said:


> I'm utterly baffled as to why people continue to come to this guys defense.



I think it is the "uniqueness" to his builds (i.e. the crazy aesthetics) and people don't want to see that fall. (Like I said before, on Page 30 or 31, we are "creatures of the eyes".) He is a budding builder with promise, but he IS learning off the customer's dime which is 100% shady and unethical by all means. Perry in his call-out on Page 30 was right and I shall stand by that until this company gets what is coming. And that is exactly what you said:



Necris said:


> the collapse of a company, ripped off customers, shitty guitars and a luthier disappearing off the face of the earth with a members money.



With that said, notice how the ONLY ones hopping to his defense at the moment are ENDORSED artists? (Because they dare not say anything bad about their signature guitars...)


----------



## Necris

That is the thing though, he is _not _a good luthier/builder in any sense of the word; a truly good luthier wouldn't be making such simple mistakes and even a decent luthier wouldn't let that leave their shop. 

He *clearly* is not learning considering how he continues to make the same mistakes despite how many guitars he's made and therefore he has no promise.

He is selling guitars with beginners mistakes while charging a professionals price. You are being/have consistently been far too charitable in your assessment of him and his work.


----------



## naw38

Necris said:


> He *clearly* is not learning considering how he continues to make the same mistakes despite how many guitars he's made and therefore he has no promise.



I was about to say that. Nayon's guitar came out before mine, also with strings resting on the headstock, and if anything, it's even worse on mine.


----------



## MJS

I never really got how anyone defended him because of artistic ability, being unique, fancy designs, etc... since none of those make you qualified to build something. 

There are plenty of people out there that can do amazing flame jobs and pinstripes on cars, but you don't see any of them trying to build cars. 

If I were him, I would try to build myself a flawless _simple_ guitar out of wood. Basic body shape, no carbon fiber, plain dot inlays only... and nothing else that isn't required for functionality. Until he can build the most basic functioning guitar that would actually exceed the quality of what Rondo sells for $79, he shouldn't really try to step beyond that.

I've seen "built my first guitar" threads on this forum with much better quality products than what he's trying to pass off as custom.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necris said:


> You are being/have consistently been far too charitable in your assessment of him and his work.



Reason being is that every time I (meaning just me) say something negative I get attacked/raped on here along with a ton of neg-rep. Anytime someone else says something negative, they get nothing or don't get it as bad from the "now lack of" supporters/defenders. So I've backed off a bit in my words for the time being.

I'm just waiting to see this company hit the bottom and collapse. Time to watch the fireworks.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Necris said:


> I'm utterly baffled as to why people continue to come to this guys defense.



Some people have ZERO common sense.


----------



## BlackMastodon

thesnowdog said:


> I stopped looking after reading this blurb: Sarah Longfield - Artists - Custom Made Electric Guitars For Sale - Etherial . How anyone can push that 'promotional' text live is beyond me.


Wow, that was painful to read, grammar and spelling mistakes aside.


----------



## NaYoN

Wings of Obsidian said:


> With that said, notice how the ONLY ones hopping to his defense at the moment are ENDORSED artists? (Because they dare not say anything bad about their signature guitars...)



I don't really benefit from "picking a side" in this "battle". Unless someone buys an exact copy of my instrument, which is unlikely (and inadvisable because I have weird specifications) I really don't benefit from this in any way. And I'm not even defending my own guitar, I'm just past the point of arguing about it.

My view on the situation is purely based on having a closer look inside the workings of Etherial. Notice that I have not apologized for mistakes on other guitars, I've simply said that Matt will work with the owners to sort the issues out, because he does. That much I'll defend, because it's the truth as far as I know. Other than that, I don't really like internet wars so I try to stay out of this business unless I'm personally called out.

I think people have mostly made up their minds about this issue so I guess I just don't see the point of constant flaming. The status quo remains until a new instrument is put out at which point people will decide whether there are improvements or not. But hey, I'm not the gatekeeper of the internet, argue all you want.

Also, for the record, Etherial doesn't really "endorse" artists. There aren't really any benefits here other than being part of this small "family" of artists who have also gotten instruments from Etherial.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Point is, the "so called gaudy guitars" Etherial makes have a market.
If other luthiers don't offer that kind of things, he will always have work, flawed or flawless whatever that is.
So, considering there will be people wanting that kind of guitars, it's in EVERYONE's best interests that he start to release flawless guitars.
Unless other luthiers will start to accept stranger requests.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> Point is, the "so called gaudy guitars" Etherial makes have a market.
> If other luthiers don't offer that kind of things, he will always have work, flawed or flawless whatever that is.
> So, considering there will be people wanting that kind of guitars, it's in EVERYONE's best interests that he start to release flawless guitars.
> Unless other luthiers will start to accept stranger requests.



As weird as it sounds, Dylan at Daemoness and Dariusz at RAN are both two companies that can do any design (aesthetic or functionality-wise) flawlessly and beyond measure. - How do I know? - I took my build design to them and they each spent a few minutes to analyze and tweak it to perfect it and got back to me with an estimate. Completely doable by other companies.  Perry Ormsby might be next on my list to scope out for a build.

Since I mentioned Daemoness, I feel the need to say that as far as aesthetics go, Dylan goes above and beyond human ability in the truest sense. HOLY SHIT, HIS WORK!!!


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

NaYoN said:


> Also, for the record, Etherial doesn't really "endorse" artists. There aren't really any benefits here other than being part of this small "family" of artists who have also gotten instruments from Etherial.



Matt loves to use the words "endorse" and "endorsee" a lot on the sites and such as the FB page, which I guess led to the misuunderstanding. But he has put out quite a few builds for people he has not endorsed or mentioned, so clearly he does offer exclusivity as far as endorsement of some kind (meaning he just picks the people he likes personally and slaps their name on his FB page). - Granted, Etherial is such a small company that it really offers NOTHING as far as benefits go for its endorsees.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Wings of Obsidian said:


> As weird as it sounds, Dylan at Daemoness and Dariusz at RAN are both two companies that can do any design (aesthetic or functionality-wise) flawlessly and beyond measure. - How do I know? - I took my build design to them and they each spent a few minutes to analyze and tweak it to perfect it and got back to me with an estimate. Completely doable by other companies.  Perry Ormsby might be next on my list to scope out for a build.
> 
> Since I mentioned Daemoness, I fell the need to say that as far as aesthetics go, Dylan goes above and beyond human ability in the truest sense. HOLY SHIT, HIS WORK!!!



I don't mean only the shape by the way.
And I prefer Dylan's work too.
Good if they're willing to expand to Etherial spot too


----------



## Danukenator

+1 for Ran. If I ever wanted a crazy custom, I'd go for them. They are able to execute the orders they take on really nicely.


----------



## BouhZik

OmegaSlayer said:


> I don't mean only the shape by the way.
> And I prefer Dylan's work too.
> Good if they're willing to expand to Etherial spot too



This is not "Etherial spot" in any way. RAN is on this "spot" for a Long time already. You just have to ask Dariusz.


----------



## TemjinStrife

OmegaSlayer said:


> Point is, the "so called gaudy guitars" Etherial makes have a market.
> If other luthiers don't offer that kind of things, he will always have work, flawed or flawless whatever that is.
> So, considering there will be people wanting that kind of guitars, it's in EVERYONE's best interests that he start to release flawless guitars.
> Unless other luthiers will start to accept stranger requests.



What's the point of a "gaudy guitar" if it's not even fit for purpose or use as a guitar?


----------



## arkohors

TemjinStrife said:


> What's the point of a "gaudy guitar" if it's not even fit for purpose or use as a guitar?


 
I'd say some people's willingness to risk getting a wall decoration stems from 3 reasons.

1.Cost--although statistics would say you will more than likely get an abomination, people are willing to take that chance for his prices. If your guitar comes out halfway decent, most people will chalk it up as a win due to saving cash

2.Lacking options- Others have mentioned this already, so I won't focus on it too much. However, Matt is one of a few luthiers willing to provide the options that he has.

Combine this with the cost aspect and you get....

3.Denial/wishful thinking. Although it seems like a few builds came out ok (Nayon's, etc.), until people experience getting a poor excuse of a guitar for themselves, a state of denial is likely occurring ("It won't happen to me")


----------



## Konfyouzd

I've had a few members here learn to hone their craft on my dime but that was also the agreement from the beginning...  

I guess that's a tiny bit different... 

Oh yea and the guitars/parts I got were highly playable.


----------



## TemjinStrife

arkohors said:


> I'd say some people's willingness to risk getting a wall decoration stems from 3 reasons.
> 
> 1.Cost--although statistics would say you will more than likely get an abomination, people are willing to take that chance for his prices. If your guitar comes out halfway decent, most people will chalk it up as a win due to saving cash
> 
> 2.Lacking options- Others have mentioned this already, so I won't focus on it too much. However, Matt is one of a few luthiers willing to provide the options that he has.
> 
> Combine this with the cost aspect and you get....
> 
> 3.Denial/wishful thinking. Although it seems like a few builds came out ok (Nayon's, etc.), until people experience getting a poor excuse of a guitar for themselves, a state of denial is likely occurring ("It won't happen to me")



The thing is, these things aren't cheap. They're still over a thousand dollars, which will net you a HUGE amount of guitar, and constitutes a fair chunk of disposable income...


----------



## asher

Konfyouzd said:


> Oh yea and the guitars/parts I got were highly playable.



Pffft, _details_.


----------



## JP Universe

Couldn't help going onto the homepage&#8230;..

'Owner of Etherial, Matthew Brown, over the course of 9 years has dedicated himself to the advance of himself as a designer and craftsman.'


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hmmm, if the hole in the market is so vast Etherial fills it, than perhaps I should go into business. 

Alright guys, I'm doing it. 

For $2000 I will build you the most ridiculous guitar wrapped in whatever you want, be it carbon fiber, fiberglass, excrement, aluminum, etc. Heck, it might even play. Might not, but then it can't be much worse than an Etherial at this point. 

I'll even email you once in awhile and tell you what you want to hear in order for you stop the impending PayPal dispute. 

At least I can say I've built fewer duds. If that's not a selling point, I don't know what is.


----------



## Prophetable

Sign me up for 3.


----------



## RickSchneider

Look mate, I don't care what you can build - show me your photoshop mockups or consider this a no-sale


----------



## MJS

MaxOfMetal said:


> *
> For $2000 I will* _build you the most ridiculous guitar wrapped in whatever you want, be it carbon fiber, fiberglass, excrement, aluminum, etc. Heck, it might even play. Might not, but then it can't be much worse than an Etherial at this point. I'll even_ *email you once in awhile and tell you what you want to hear in order for you stop the impending PayPal dispute. *


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JP Universe said:


> Couldn't help going onto the homepage..
> 
> 'Owner of Etherial, Matthew Brown, over the course of 9 years has dedicated himself to the advance of himself as a designer and craftsman.'



My grammar is shit and even I had trouble reading that.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> My grammar is shit and even I had trouble reading that.



Counted I think 7 or 8 BAD grammar mistakes in the Sarah Longfield description/bio that he clearly made up on the site. - Not to mention the bad grammar and spelling on my invoice. (Obviously, he doesn't have an eye for detail to check his spelling....even when he is building a website......reflects how he doesn't check the guitars he is building.)


----------



## Hollowway

I agree that the reason people keep ordering is the willingness of Matt to do crazy things. I gotta think that if you asked Dylan or Dariusz to make a fanned 9 string with a one-off body design wrapped in carbon fiber and glow in the dark inlays all over the place you'd be looking at quite a bit over $4000. Most of what we call "custom" luthiers are actually semi custom in the sense that they have a battery of body shapes, scale lengths, headstock shapes, etc. that you have to choose from. In my experience there are only a few who would do a body shape like Matt's, and would charge quite a bit more for it. I personally would love to order an Etherial because of how different they are from anything else out there. They're expensive, but not relatively so. But I'm just not going to pull the trigger if there's a chance this would go south on me (been down that road one too many times!). But, if there were another luthier who would do crazy shapes and inlays like that and charge the same as they would for their standard shapes I'd be all over it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Moser is very down for crazy shapes, and isn't afraid of adding strings or inlays as long as you're a paying customer. Not the cheapest builder on Earth, but very reasonable considering his track record.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

@Holloway: RAN. Seriously man. Dariusz can do anything. Go through the Gallery on the website. And he told me he was down for anything, no matter how crazy.


----------



## TemjinStrife

MaxOfMetal said:


> Moser is very down for crazy shapes, and isn't afraid of adding strings or inlays as long as you're a paying customer. Not the cheapest builder on Earth, but very reasonable considering his track record.



Moser will also give you something playable in the end. Which, when it comes down to it, is FAR more important than a crazy body shape or nuts inlays.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

TemjinStrife said:


> Moser will also give you something playable in the end. Which, when it comes down to it, is FAR more important than a crazy body shape or nuts inlays.



To each one his own.
I don't feel to judge what people likes, I just try to understand
A - Why people wants the guitars even with flaws
B - Why this guy makes (some very silly) mistakes.
(I mean placing a saddle that is not in line with the neck is something that even me totally ignorant in everything luthiery wouldn't even do)

With the stuff of ortography errors and stuff I start thinking Matt has some problem like dyslexia or something like that.
People with dyslexia is often very artistic and creative but have attention problems so they mess up little things without noticing it.

Dunno, my two cents.


----------



## guidothepimmp

Just 2 observations

1. People willingly hand money over to etherial presumably after doing their homework and understanding there may potentially be issues. This does not make what etherial does right or wrong.. but ultimately the buyer always chooses to take that risk. In some cases itll payoff.. in others.. not. Me? Not worththe ballache for me so i wouldnt ever shortlist him if i wanted a custom build.

2. I get people wanting their fiddles to look different, unique, badass etc.. i really do... but glow in the dark and weird inlays? These really are gimmicks and do nothing for playability.. i dig outlandish like the next guy, but i would choose playability any day over outrageous looks.

To each his own though.. goodluck to the folks that are waiting on builds.. hope it works out.


----------



## patata

guidothepimmp said:


> 1. People _willingly_ hand money over to etherial presumably after doing their homework and understanding there may potentially be issues. This does not make what etherial does right or wrong.. but ultimately the buyer always chooses to take that risk. In some cases itll payoff.. in others.. not. Me? Not worththe ballache for me so i wouldnt ever shortlist him if i wanted a custom build.



Where have you been the whole time?


----------



## guidothepimmp

@ Patata.. yeh please forgive my late conclusion.. its the time difference you see.. we are 1 or 2 hours behind Greece depending on your season.. and a whole 8 hours behind Oz..

Damn time zones


----------



## MaxOfMetal

guidothepimmp said:


> 1. People willingly hand money over to etherial presumably after doing their homework and understanding there may potentially be issues. This does not make what etherial does right or wrong.. but ultimately the buyer always chooses to take that risk.



Alright, I'll be the first guy to point out the absolute laziness and idiocy of the buying public, I've gone pretty in-depth on it in the past. The term "tough love" comes up often.  

That said, not everyone is a forum geek. I mean, it wasn't until fairly recently that more buyers of Etherial guitars came forward with pictures that confirmed mine, and others', suspicions of the quality of the work. 

If you back track to a year or so ago, aside from a couple messy build pics (which in all fairness could be interpreted other ways than "look at that shitty work") all the owners of Etherial guitars said they were good. It wasn't until folks actually started speaking up that what I said over a year ago was shown to be true. 

Heck he still has artists and other customers sticking up for him, so if you weren't a long time forum dweller (thus able to see who is legit and who is talking out their ass, opinion wise) and came into the mix not long ago, you might have been suckered. 

I've repaired, modified, and built guitars for over a decade, professionally. I can see build pics and pick out errors, same goes for looking at completed instruments. I'm not bragging as this is a FAR from rare skill for folks who have been in the game for as long as I have (practically born with a guitar in my hand). That said, not everyone is such an instrument nerd. You shouldn't have to be just to buy a guitar. It wouldn't hurt though.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

@Max
Hmm...what you said is true and wrong at the same time.
Because I don't know how many people who doesn't come to guitar forums would buy a luthiery instrument.

I have been playing guitar for 22 years and the interest for a luthiery instrument started just after start visiting here like 3 months ago.
Before that I totally opposed the idea to pay an insane amount of money for an instrument that didn't offered me the same warranty of a good stock instrument.
I preferred the idea of my hands getting accustomized to an instrument (which for me means progress as a player) than an instrument for my hands.
I don't know if there are lots of people like me, but the idea to play a baseball veneered neck like an oil finished wizard neck is a challenge that I see with enthusiasm because I want to be flexible and not rest on what I do well and I'm used to.
Obviously I would like an instrument made for me, who wouldn't, but at the moment I couldn't figure if it would make me more excited than trying something unknown.

That doesn't mean I would like to play on a flawed guitar for the sake of satisfying my ego making it sound good


----------



## MaxOfMetal

OmegaSlayer said:


> Because I don't know how many people who doesn't come to guitar forums would buy a luthiery instrument.



Believe it or not, folks have been going to independent luthiers for custom instruments, in droves, looooong before the internet came about. And these weren't just folks looking for something that wasn't on the market. There were plenty of guys just looking to make their version of what was popular. 

The custom guitar renaissance was the 80's, a time before computers were the household norm, even most guitar magazines and newsletters (closest thing at the time to what we know and love today, forums) didn't mention builders, they occasionally had ads in the back though. 

Even today, most of the guitarists and other musicians I know don't go on forums. Between here, HC, UG, and some of the other forums you're looking at maybe 15,000 folks globally (remember, a lot of folks belong to all the forums). There are literally thousands of builders out there that are obviously in business without needing forum goers. 

Heck, I think more folks find luthiers through Google searches and Facebook (who would have thunk it?) these days. 

I'm not letting folks off the hook for not searching and taking the time to understand what they're doing, but even forum savvy folks can get fooled by hype.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> I preferred the idea of my hands getting accustomized to an instrument (which for me means progress as a player) than an instrument for my hands.
> I don't know if there are lots of people like me, but the idea to play a baseball veneered neck like an oil finished wizard neck is a challenge that I see with enthusiasm because I want to be flexible and not rest on what I do well and I'm used to.



Can I just say: I've only been playing for 7 or 8 years, and my hands have never met a neck that they didn't like? For me, a guitar is a guitar, a tool of expression, no matter how it is designed. BUT....in order to express, it must be playable.

When I was a kid just starting out, I went through owning Fender, Schecter, PRS, ESP/LTD, Ibanez, everything you could snag at a local store. And I never had a problem playing any of it. Are there certain aspects we all "prefer" as we progress and learn? HELL YEAH!  But, I've always had super adaptable hands, which to me, is the sign of a good player.  (Not trying to brag, that is FAR from my point, but it is like driving a manual transmission car. Not many people know how to do it nowadays since majority of cars are automatic. But if it came down to it, like an emergency, you'd be the one amongst the group who knew how to drive a stick-shift. Like if you were at a gig and your guitar was damaged or you just didn't have one, you'd be able to play whatever was handed to you and still play a killer gig. You're not going to sit there and say "NO! I can ONLY play Ibanez. Only Ibanez for everything according to my hands!" - Not trying to pick on you here, Max.  Just joking.) Challenge yourself to play a different build/model/brand of guitar, and who knows, you might become a better player and find another certain aspect of that build/design that you like. 

I've never met a guitar that I didn't like........until I joined this forum and saw all these companies completely f-ing up builds and making these flaws (S7G, BRJ, Invictus, Etherial, Acacia, Roter, etc.)

BACK ON TOPIC!


----------



## OmegaSlayer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Believe it or not, folks have been going to independent luthiers for custom instruments, in droves, looooong before the internet came about. And these weren't just folks looking for something that wasn't on the market. There were plenty of guys just looking to make their version of what was popular.
> 
> The custom guitar renaissance was the 80's, a time before computers were the household norm, even most guitar magazines and newsletters (closest thing at the time to what we know and love today, forums) didn't mention builders, they occasionally had ads in the back though.
> 
> Even today, most of the guitarists and other musicians I know don't go on forums. Between here, HC, UG, and some of the other forums you're looking at maybe 15,000 folks globally (remember, a lot of folks belong to all the forums). There are literally thousands of builders out there that are obviously in business without needing forum goers.
> 
> Heck, I think more folks find luthiers through Google searches and Facebook (who would have thunk it?) these days.
> 
> I'm not letting folks off the hook for not searching and taking the time to understand what they're doing, but even forum savvy folks can get fooled by hype.



Hmkay, you're right, but what's the percentage of guitar players looking for a luthiery guitar?
(Consider not being in USA could mean I have a totally different perception of the phenomenon)
Also, what's the percentage of people actually knowing what they want and not only going to get a luthiery instruments cuz they got da moneyz?

I make an example of what I saw as the average guitar player, hoping I won't offend anyone.
It's what I see in guitar/instruments stores and something I soooo hate and make me hate to go to guitar stores.
Rich guy "x" enters guitar store, wait in line annoyed and grumbling, and when it's his turn he "steals" the clerk.
He starts, I want something that, you know, makes my sound a bit more "hng" and a bit less "grw".
And so on, having no idea of what they want nor clues in how to explain, having the clerk put everything off the shelves and ending up after at least half an hour either in not buying anything or buying the most expensive thing just 'cause, when today a search on internet could have helped to focus on what they really needed.

Loads of people don't know what they want, don't honestly realize what their skills truly are, they only want to quench their egos.
We know that every guitarist has excessive egos  someone more, someone less, someone is better at hiding it and so on.
But mostly the point is that, from the most unskilled guy to the most talented one, we play for our ego more than anything and a unique luthiery instrument is basically the climax, the orgasm of our ego.

But I wonder how many people, not counting people in here, know exactly what they want.
I personally know that I would want a guitar with a lo pro edge, 2 humbuckers, 24 frets, no binding, extended range and no tone knob, that's all and it's still very vague, but I couldn't be 100% sure if I would like an infinite radius or not, or which wood to use and I'm a guy who's genuinely interested in guitar tech, even if my knowledge isn't top notch.

So, back to the point, how many people, in forums and not, can go to the luthiery and be able to give the specs of the guitar that would fit them best?
In what I assume is a very very very little percentage, how many of them would be able to spot a flaw?

A flawless instrument is more in the ethics and best interests of a luthier than in the eye of the average excited player


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

OmegaSlayer said:


> Hmkay, you're right, but what's the percentage of guitar players looking for a luthiery guitar?
> (Consider not being in USA could mean I have a totally different perception of the phenomenon)
> Also, what's the percentage of people actually knowing what they want and not only going to get a luthiery instruments cuz they got da moneyz?
> 
> I make an example of what I saw as the average guitar player, hoping I won't offend anyone.
> It's what I see in guitar/instruments stores and something I soooo hate and make me hate to go to guitar stores.
> Rich guy "x" enters guitar store, wait in line annoyed and grumbling, and when it's his turn he "steals" the clerk.
> He starts, I want something that, you know, makes my sound a bit more "hng" and a bit less "grw".
> And so on, having no idea of what they want nor clues in how to explain, having the clerk put everything off the shelves and ending up after at least half an hour either in not buying anything or buying the most expensive thing just 'cause, when today a search on internet could have helped to focus on what they really needed.
> 
> Loads of people don't know what they want, don't honestly realize what their skills truly are, they only want to quench their egos.
> We know that every guitarist has excessive egos  someone more, someone less, someone is better at hiding it and so on.
> But mostly the point is that, from the most unskilled guy to the most talented one, we play for our ego more than anything and a unique luthiery instrument is basically the climax, the orgasm of our ego.
> 
> But I wonder how many people, not counting people in here, know exactly what they want.
> I personally know that I would want a guitar with a lo pro edge, 2 humbuckers, 24 frets, no binding, extended range and no tone knob, that's all and it's still very vague, but I couldn't be 100% sure if I would like an infinite radius or not, or which wood to use and I'm a guy who's genuinely interested in guitar tech, even if my knowledge isn't top notch.
> 
> So, back to the point, how many people, in forums and not, can go to the luthiery and be able to give the specs of the guitar that would fit them best?
> In what I assume is a very very very little percentage, how many of them would be able to spot a flaw?
> 
> A flawless instrument is more in the ethics and best interests of a luthier than in the eye of the average excited player




That's why I don't go to my Local Stores much. Only for strings 2x a year and the odd random look around. I also get angry at the Clerk spewing BS to the ignorant as well. I just want a single string pack but have to wait 15min at the counter while this douche talks some parents into buying a f*cking strap with a built-in tuner...Then he tries to talk it up to me as the ultimate live tool for tuning between songs 

"My strings start buzzing when I try to play higher on my neck, can you fix this?"

- Hmmm, seems your neck has warped, there is nothing we can do for this but help you pick out a new guitar

Told the guy how to adjust his truss rod and he left with a real solution and his money.


I think 0% actually go into a full Custom with every minute detail down to the nearest thousandth of an inch. I like to leave a lot of it up to the luthier. I like to try and feel their interpretation of comfort, otherwise I'd end up with another neck I've already have/played and find to be the perfect fit.

For example: Everyone is finding the Endurneck to be badass. There's a very small chance those customers were able to try that neck before Purchase.
If they went with their perception of Perfection they would never have realised how much better the Endurneck is.

I'd guess 100% for spotting a flaw. Spotting a flaw should be very easy with the Guitar in hand...though seeing the comments of people missing obvious flaws in posted pictures makes me


----------



## OmegaSlayer

@RV350

^___^ about the store stuff 

About the flaw, 100% can spot finish issues, obvios flaws, I wonder how many can spot a neck that was shimmed because it originally had a wrong angle.
You are the guy that is telling me that people don't know the existence of the truss rod in a guitar and what it is for, maybe loads of people believe that the neck is just straight and not bowed.
Probably the same people wouldn't understand that intonation is wrong just looking at saddles.
And you might know the stories of all the people returning guitars with floating bridges soon after a string broke for the first time.
I wonder how many would realize that the headstock is not twisted and would think that the string outside the headstock is cool stuff like the Skervesen headstock. 

Seriously, there is uninformed and not smart people out there and people taking advantage out of it, lambs and wolves, which is nothing new in how the world goes.


----------



## TemjinStrife

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> For example: Everyone is finding the Endurneck to be badass. There's a very small chance those customers were able to try that neck before Purchase.
> If they went with their perception of Perfection they would never have realised how much better the Endurneck is.



I'm actually glad I got to try an Endurneck-equipped guitar before buying one. Did not like the profile at all.



> I'd guess 100% for spotting a flaw. Spotting a flaw should be very easy with the Guitar in hand...though seeing the comments of people missing obvious flaws in posted pictures makes me



As someone who's built things out of wood (some partscaster guitars, tables, etc.) you know EXACTLY where every flaw is. Every ding, mark, scratch, sand-through, finish bubble, burn mark. Even if it's invisible to all but the closest inspection in the right light, you know it's there because you put it there and either tried to fix it or left it.

For instance, in the Telexplorer I put together with my father, there are a few sand-throughs that we fixed but didn't come out perfectly, a small scratch in the clearcoat in the front that didn't quite buff out, some slight ovaling in the output jack hole from a wandering drill bit, and some unevenness in the pickguard to the sides of the bridge and under the fingerboard overhang.

Anyone who doesn't see those sort of things on something that they have spent hours and hours building is not spending enough time checking their work.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

TemjinStrife said:


> I'm actually glad I got to try an Endurneck-equipped guitar before buying one. Did not like the profile at all.
> 
> 
> 
> As someone who's built things out of wood (some partscaster guitars, tables, etc.) you know EXACTLY where every flaw is. Every ding, mark, scratch, sand-through, finish bubble, burn mark. Even if it's invisible to all but the closest inspection in the right light, you know it's there because you put it there and either tried to fix it or left it.
> 
> For instance, in the Telexplorer I put together with my father, there are a few sand-throughs that we fixed but didn't come out perfectly, a small scratch in the clearcoat in the front that didn't quite buff out, some slight ovaling in the output jack hole from a wandering drill bit, and some unevenness in the pickguard to the sides of the bridge and under the fingerboard overhang.
> 
> Anyone who doesn't see those sort of things on something that they have spent hours and hours building is not spending enough time checking their work.



I asked if the average guy who receives a luthiery guitar is able to see the flaws, not the luthier.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> I asked if the average guy who receives a luthiery guitar is able to see the flaws, not the luthier.



I'm below average and I've spotted a lot of the flaws listed in the various builds in this thread. - So is THAT saying something?...


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I'm below average and I've spotted a lot of the flaws listed in the various builds in this thread. - So is THAT saying something?...


Yeah, it says that you didn't read my post. 
I clearly mentioned the average guitar player that doesn't do research for his gear on internet.
And with average I didn't meant the skills, but average Joe with a guitar.


----------



## Alberto7

^ It's true. I probably wouldn't have noticed a lot of those flaws some 4 years ago before joining this forum, which is when I became a proper guitar nerd. However, I still think it's f*cked up to constantly and shamelessly sell defective and/or sub-par merchandise. If anything, that just means that the seller is taking advantage of the customer.


----------



## AxeHappy

Can the average Joe car owner spot problems with his car?

Does that make it okay to sell defective cars?


----------



## RedDog22

Alberto7 said:


> ^ It's true. I probably wouldn't have noticed a lot of those flaws some 4 years ago before joining this forum, which is when I became a proper guitar nerd. However, I still think it's f*cked up to constantly and shamelessly sell defective and/or sub-par merchandise. If anything, that just means that the seller is taking advantage of the customer.


I had a general idea of axe geometry from watching youtube luthiery videos but learned more after joining & reading this forum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

While it may take a guitar geek to point out exactly what's wrong and why, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know your guitar isn't keeping tune or intonation right, or the feel of a poorly applied finish and rough fret ends. 

Just like someone who knows absolutely nothing about cars can see when there's a new scratch or dig, or if a tire is low, or if it plain old doesn't start.


----------



## ormsby guitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just like someone who knows absolutely nothing about cars can see when there's a new scratch or dig, or if a tire is low, or if it plain old doesn't start.



Me "you drove 45 minutes with a flat?"
Wife "we'll, maybe. People were yelling at me for 45 minutes..."
Me "you didn't take the hint something was wrong?"
Wife "I thought they were road raging... so I yelled back... My driving was perfect most of the way..."

:/


----------



## OmegaSlayer

I dunno guys, something some of you seems to not read the posts, not read them all or nitpick only about what they find convenient.
Sorry, but it's disheartening.
I'm 95% of the time blaming my bad English, but this is the other 5% actually.

@Axehappy
I clearly told that the ethic of a luthier is what makes a guitar flawless, the customer seeing it flawless doesn't guarantee that the instrument is flawless.

@Max
Look at all the people HERE that is not able to restring a Floyd properly and tell me again they would understand that intonation is wrong just looking at the saddle.
Obviously people would spot aesthetic flaws, but not conceptual or technical flaws.

To wrap up things, not only women don't realize when they have a flat tyre.
I see more men at tyre centers than women.


----------



## Necromagnon

OmegaSlayer said:


> @Max
> Look at all the people HERE that is not able to restring a Floyd properly and tell me again they would understand that intonation is wrong just looking at the saddle.
> Obviously people would spot aesthetic flaws, but not conceptual or technical flaws.


I'm not sure. As guitarist, we're used to see the saddles in the common position: 2*3 in a line (come schematize it easily). When you see a guitar with saddles doing strange wavy shape, even if you're not a pro, you can sense the intonation is quite wrong...



OmegaSlayer said:


> To wrap up things, not only women don't realize when they have a flat tyre.
> I see more men at tyre centers than women.


To repair their gf/wives mistakes.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> =I see more men at tyre centers than women.



Because dealing with the car is typically a man's thing/niche/responsibility. When is the last time you saw a female car mechanic?.......exactly. Cars are more of men's interests. -.-


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Necromagnon said:


> I'm not sure. As guitarist, we're used to see the saddles in the common position: 2*3 in a line (come schematize it easily). When you see a guitar with saddles doing strange wavy shape, even if you're not a pro, you can sense the intonation is quite wrong...
> 
> 
> To repair their gf/wives mistakes.



Ok, give me a call next time you see someone that allignes the saddles because they looked all messy and all over the place 
You guys are too used to see guitarists with a good share of guitar knowledge.
Which is the minority.
You get spoiled by spending time in this forum  where the less pro is at least informed


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Because dealing with the car is typically a man's thing/niche/responsibility. When is the last time you saw a female car mechanic?.......exactly. Cars are more of men's interests. -.-


When I was in university... And I've never wishes so much to be a car...


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Because dealing with the car is typically a man's thing/niche/responsibility. When is the last time you saw a female car mechanic?.......exactly. Cars are more of men's interests. -.-



This just proves my point more.
When it is about car, a part of the user base relies on other people when they have something broken and they can't realize why.
When it is about guitar, a part of the user base bring the guitar to the luthier to have strings replaced, which is like a flat tyre.

Guys, you can spin it how much you like, but at least 40% of guitar players, which includes the guy that plays Nirvana's covers in his garage, don't know how a bridge must be set up and other stuff.

You can't take this place as an example, a place where the average user play 7 stringers.

If we want to joke, it's ok, if we want to be realistic, there's a different world outside guitar forums.


----------



## Necromagnon

OmegaSlayer said:


> This just proves my point more.
> When it is about car, a part of the user base relies on other people when they have something broken and they can't realize why.
> When it is about guitar, a part of the user base bring the guitar to the luthier to have strings replaced, which is like a flat tyre.
> 
> Guys, you can spin it how much you like, but at least 40% of guitar players, which includes the guy that plays Nirvana's covers in his garage, don't know how a bridge must be set up and other stuff.
> 
> You can't take this place as an example, a place where the average user play 7 stringers.
> 
> If we want to joke, it's ok, if we want to be realistic, there's a different world outside guitar forums.


I agree with that point. But mine is different. I think that people that would like to jump in the custom shop family is usually experienced player, that have seen and played already a good quantity of guitars, and knows what he wants. He might not be expert, of course, but at least, he knows how should look like a good fretjob, a correct (or almost) intonation, a correct fret action, etc. Then, he will be able to see if the guitar pass at least this very low level quality control.

But I know, some buyers are just young players (either by age or new in the guitar player family) that are just gasing for stuff, I've been one of those. But even before starting building guitars, I was able to see some (very big) mistakes on cheap guitars.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

And I agree with you too Necro, but the first thing people must have before going to the luthier is money, not knowledge.
I think that a good portion of people that go to luthiers, and probably "common" luthiers, the ones near your home and not the ones we mention here, has more gas and money than knowledge.
People that has knowledge gets maybe interested in modding their stuff or making it from scratch.

But this discussion is dragging and headed to a hollow point.

The point is that making a flawless instrument is the "ethic" of a luthier because the majority of people wouldn't spot most of the issues.

Somewhere here I saw one of our guys seeing the pic of a Schecter and being able to tell that the wood was moving beneath the paint, some days later, boom, big crack in the paint.
Only maybe 30 or less people here would be able to do something like that.
Most people couldn't see it but it's something worse than an unpolished fretwork.

Back to Etherial, Matt must focus on his ethics or drop the job, because he would only damage the "amount" of reputation he has.
I, for one, hope he manages to level up his stuff since I don't gain nor lose anything for him to leave the luthier industry.

As I said multiple times though, I understand that other luthiers get pissed off because he ruins the overall respect of the luthiers' work, and appreciate Ormsby attempts to give Matt a hand.


----------



## GunpointMetal

The ethic of a builder doesn't trump flaws in the build...WTF?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> but the first thing people must have before going to the luthier is money, not knowledge.
> I think that a good portion of people that go to luthiers, and probably "common" luthiers, the ones near your home and not the ones we mention here, has more gas and money than knowledge.



This is exactly why these little kids all under the age of 20 (who can hardly play as is) don't need to be having mommy and daddy spoil them by buying them a $2K+ custom guitar... -.- (More money than knowledge.)


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> Back to Etherial, Matt must focus on his ethics or drop the job, because he would only damage the "amount" of reputation he has.



Back to the actual point, Matt MUST FOCUS on actually learning his trade better (he has a degree in "industrial design" NOT in "luthiery") so that he KNOWS what he is doing better. And he ALSO needs to work on improving his ethics because what he is doing (taking advantage of his customers, learning on the customer's time and money, and sending out flawed work which HE KNOWS IS FLAWED) because that is just f-ing terrible business sense and business ethics. No one else would be doing that shit.

But of course, as said on the last pages (either Page 32 or 33), I'm just waiting for the company to collapse due to this series of hassle and poor business practice, and then ol' Matt will go the way of Invictus or Roter and disappear off the face of the earth with someone's money.


----------



## TemjinStrife

This thread has suddenly and unexpectedly taken a misanthropic and ageist turn...


----------



## AxeHappy

I taught guitar for 9 years. I've seen plenty of guitarists with *no* experience. A large majority of them have GAS as bad as any member of this forum (although for different gear) and you might be shocked at what they notice. Kids grew up on the interent. They are used to checking everything on it. 

Will they notice hyper guitar nerd type issues? Not until they've been playing for a while. But they will damn well notice shit like ....ed up nuts or bridges.

It's not like they have never seen another guitar before.



If your point was/is:
It's the builder's job to be responsible for the quality of his work, then that is what everybody here was already saying, so I'm thoroughly confused as to why you were disagreeing with everyone?


----------



## xCaptainx

I'm still really confused as to why Wings of Obsidian has made it his own personal crusade to antagonize and burn this builder to the ground?


----------



## jonajon91

^ there was a mess when Wings went to get an Etherial guitar that left Wings and Matt not speaking. I don't know what happened and I don't care to find out. Since then it has been a steady slope from defending to 'I can't defend this' to 'actually ...' to keyboard warrior to the wings we know and love now. 
I have to admit that I am on this slope myself. I really love these guitars and for the price they are phenomenal, but some of these mistakes are really rookie errors and I can't defend them. It really pains me to see.  Also I have no place with odd car metaphors.


----------



## RickSchneider

I put money down for my first custom at age 18, and my second deposit when I was 19, all of which was done with my own money. In that space of time I also ought other gear and guitars with my own money... 

Wings I don't get if you're mad at etherial or if you just want to wage war on almost everyone around here. Can we get back on topic, or better yet even just leave this thread until some more evidence or examples surface? This thread seems to be getting less and less about etherial and their guitars and more about how 'etherial should just quit' etc. etc.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

jonajon91 said:


> Since then it has been a steady slope from defending to 'I can't defend this' to 'actually ...' to keyboard warrior to the wings we know and love now.



Exactly...

Has anyone ever told you that you should be a comedian? 



xCaptainx said:


> I'm still really confused as to why Wings of Obsidian has made it his own personal crusade to antagonize and burn this builder to the ground?



No such thing, mate. Why the heck does everyone assume this?

Let us recall:



ormsby guitars said:


> No, he is not learning. He's put out, what, 40-50 guitars?
> 
> I say it again: I see less faults with my student's guitars, with their first builds. Granted, they have guidance, but 90% have no woodworking skills.
> 
> The longer this bullshit goes on, the more his reputation is tarnished. At first, I was feeling sorry for the guy. Im a massive supporter of having more luthiers out there in the world. Now, at this rate, the way he is going, I just want him out of the business.
> 
> He has no business building guitars for money. He has no clue on basic fundamental woodworking skills and timber characteristics. He has no eye for quality control. He has no moral compass, by allowing faults to be accepted. He has no idea of basic plan drawing (he can do a mockup though!) and nearly every instrument so far has had neck angle issues, or headstock angle issues, or strings that get closer to the fretboard end, the higher up the neck they go. He has no idea how to lacquer, nor prep the surfaces and timber for lacquer. He has no soldering skills, and no idea on pickup phasing and positioning. He has proven to be unable to consider string pull, or correctly cut nuts. He has shown total disregard for the selection of materials in each guitar.
> 
> I encourage EVERYONE who has a deposit down, to demand a swift and immediate refund. If your build is partially complete, you should be cancelling, and asking for a refund. The Australian Consumer laws will protect you, and I am very happy to be an expert witness in any claims against his work.
> 
> Here is a link for you:
> Problem with goods - Consumer Protection - Department of Commerce
> 
> Mat Brown, you need to step up. You need training, although I honestly feel that as much passion as you have, it probably wont be enough. If you have an issue with anything Ive said, give me a call from an unblocked number, and I will gladly take the time to discuss. You know who I am. Further more, if you want real, genuine luthier and woodwork training, I can provide. It will cost you a metric shit tonne, but will be small drop in the ocean compared to what you will lose if you dont.
> 
> You need to go back to basic builds, develop skills, and then move onwards and upwards. However, I honestly feel as though it is already too late.


----------



## DMoTruth

it looks like a 12 year old made these guitars. this guy is a hack; he ....ing sucks. 

you think he would be embarrassed to associate his name with such pathetic work. someone needs to put him out of business and fast


----------



## OmegaSlayer

AxeHappy said:


> I taught guitar for 9 years. I've seen plenty of guitarists with *no* experience. A large majority of them have GAS as bad as any member of this forum (although for different gear) and you might be shocked at what they notice. Kids grew up on the interent. They are used to checking everything on it.
> 
> Will they notice hyper guitar nerd type issues? Not until they've been playing for a while. But they will damn well notice shit like ....ed up nuts or bridges.
> 
> It's not like they have never seen another guitar before.
> 
> 
> 
> If your point was/is:
> It's the builder's job to be responsible for the quality of his work, then that is what everybody here was already saying, so I'm thoroughly confused as to why you were disagreeing with everyone?



Dunno, maybe I'm a bit out of touch with the new generation, I don't disagreeing with people, my point is exactly then one you mentioned.
What I add is that loads of people wouldn't be able to tell the problems.
Now we're focusing on Etherial, but there has been similar problems with other builders in the past and I'm sure there are problems with smaller luthiers building luthier stratocaster replicas in their basement, and will happen again with someone else.
If someone sold 40+ guitars it means that people didn't spot the problems.


----------



## Purelojik

OmegaSlayer said:


> Dunno, maybe I'm a bit out of touch with the new generation, I don't disagreeing with people, my point is exactly then one you mentioned.
> What I add is that loads of people wouldn't be able to tell the problems.
> Now we're focusing on Etherial, but there has been similar problems with other builders in the past and I'm sure there are problems with smaller luthiers building luthier stratocaster replicas in their basement, and will happen again with someone else.
> If someone sold 40+ guitars it means that people didn't spot the problems.



but thats the problem isnt it?

if you build 40+ guitars and are still making the same mistakes or worse, it means a couple things.

1. you are INCAPABLE of seeing your own product as riddled with mistakes

which means you do not know what a custom guitar should look like, or what standard a custom is supposed to be held at. 

2. you dont care enough about your trade to stop for a while to hone the necessary skills required to improve on those mistakes. Instead you go on making these flamboyant guitars because you hope to baffle people with BS rather than showing them how you've raised the bar in quality OR have equalled the quality of the existing market. Its not asking for perfection, but its asking for the builder to have the integrity to built to the highest level possible. This means if he finds a mistake he fixes it to the point where even he cannot tell it was a mistake before, or he trashes it; REGARDLESS of whether or not the customer can tell or not. Thats integrity.

i've built a few guitars and i can say without a doubt that i've improved. if you take a look at my build blog you'll see where i started, the mistakes i made early on was because i couldnt see them. now im nitpicky as hell and that helps me make a better product. I build for myself, not for money.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

*Holy shit this has gone off-topic. Let's get this back on track. *


----------



## Gio18

Can anyone fill me in on how much i would spend on one of these guitars? 2 grand maybe?


----------



## Malkav

Gio18 said:


> Can anyone fill me in on how much i would spend on one of these guitars? 2 grand maybe?



You should really just read this thread and realise that saving yourself the hassle by not spending any money on these "guitars" is the best option.


----------



## Gio18

Malkav said:


> You should really just read this thread and realise that saving yourself the hassle by not spending any money on these "guitars" is the best option.



My question remains unanswered.


----------



## thrsher

base price is 1950 aus


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Purelojik said:


> but thats the problem isnt it?
> 
> if you build 40+ guitars and are still making the same mistakes or worse, it means a couple things.
> 
> 1. you are INCAPABLE of seeing your own product as riddled with mistakes
> 
> which means you do not know what a custom guitar should look like, or what standard a custom is supposed to be held at.
> 
> 2. you dont care enough about your trade to stop for a while to hone the necessary skills required to improve on those mistakes. Instead you go on making these flamboyant guitars because you hope to baffle people with BS rather than showing them how you've raised the bar in quality OR have equalled the quality of the existing market. Its not asking for perfection, but its asking for the builder to have the integrity to built to the highest level possible. This means if he finds a mistake he fixes it to the point where even he cannot tell it was a mistake before, or he trashes it; REGARDLESS of whether or not the customer can tell or not. Thats integrity.
> 
> i've built a few guitars and i can say without a doubt that i've improved. if you take a look at my build blog you'll see where i started, the mistakes i made early on was because i couldnt see them. now im nitpicky as hell and that helps me make a better product. I build for myself, not for money.



I said something that maybe went underlooked.
I think this guy might have a disorder in the vein of dyslexia and he can't spot the flaws by himself.
Read what really happens in the head of dyslexic people, how the brain can't deal with things correctly.
There's a friend of mine that can't memorize colours, example: he sees a red car, he tells it's red, you let 5 seconds pass then ask him which colour the car is and he can't remember.
I don't say it's dyslexia, but there are strange things that happens in some brains.
I'm no doctor, I can't tell what he has but I see strange things beside lacks of some luthier knowledge.
I say because some mistakes are so naive that I can't actually believe he didn't saw them.
The APB single saddles placed not in line with the neck are something I can't get and I can't get he didn't realize.
Besides lacking some luthier knowledge I really think this guy has some other problem.
That's not condoning his errors, just trying to figure a big *WHY???* for some of those mistakes.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> I say because some mistakes are so naive that I can't actually believe he didn't saw them.
> 
> That's not condoning his errors, just trying to figure a big *WHY???* for some of those mistakes.



HERE IS HOW WE KNOW THAT HE KNOWS:



sikapple said:


>





Wings of Obsidian said:


>



He KNOWS that he f-ed up. He knows that he screws up builds. And he tries to cover it by botching something to make it "appear" to be fixed, when in actuality, it's not. (You touch your tone or volume knob and it falls off? Your fretboard and guitar body have a rough finish due to extra sandpapering or not enough smoothing? There is paint on your fretboard, yet you go ahead and press the frets in anyway? Your nut and fretboard have this odd filler/glue/paint underneath them because he cut the face of the neck [where the fretboard goes] wrong?)

Scope out the white Sakura build I posted, as well as the white Lamborghini build SikApple posted on Pages 23-25. They will blow your theory out of the water.


----------



## SpaceDock

Gio18 said:


> Can anyone fill me in on how much i would spend on one of these guitars? 2 grand maybe?



OMG, really! 

edit: I have a BRJ slot I can sell you if your interested


----------



## Alberto7

OmegaSlayer said:


> I said something that maybe went underlooked.
> I think this guy might have a disorder in the vein of dyslexia and he can't spot the flaws by himself.
> Read what really happens in the head of dyslexic people, how the brain can't deal with things correctly.
> There's a friend of mine that can't memorize colours, example: he sees a red car, he tells it's red, you let 5 seconds pass then ask him which colour the car is and he can't remember.
> I don't say it's dyslexia, but there are strange things that happens in some brains.
> I'm no doctor, I can't tell what he has but I see strange things beside lacks of some luthier knowledge.
> I say because some mistakes are so naive that I can't actually believe he didn't saw them.
> The APB single saddles placed not in line with the neck are something I can't get and I can't get he didn't realize.
> Besides lacking some luthier knowledge I really think this guy has some other problem.
> That's not condoning his errors, just trying to figure a big *WHY???* for some of those mistakes.



Wait, are we seriously now arguing the possibility of Matt having mental issues? Where has this thread gone? 

Let's not try to be psychologists and analyse why he might be making shitty guitars. Regardless of that, the fact remains that he is still pumping out shitty guitars at too big a rate to justify giving this guy any more business, and I think that's the only thing that matters to us as potential (formerly potential) buyers; not the whys. Granted, that'd probably make for an interesting conversation, but it's too far-removed from what this thread is about. I don't see anyone bringing in new facts, so yeah... this thread is way derailed.


----------



## Devotee

OmegaSlayer said:


> I said something that maybe went underlooked.
> I think this guy might have a disorder in the vein of dyslexia and he can't spot the flaws by himself.
> Read what really happens in the head of dyslexic people, how the brain can't deal with things correctly.
> There's a friend of mine that can't memorize colours, example: he sees a red car, he tells it's red, you let 5 seconds pass then ask him which colour the car is and he can't remember.
> I don't say it's dyslexia, but there are strange things that happens in some brains.
> I'm no doctor, I can't tell what he has but I see strange things beside lacks of some luthier knowledge.
> I say because some mistakes are so naive that I can't actually believe he didn't saw them.
> The APB single saddles placed not in line with the neck are something I can't get and I can't get he didn't realize.
> Besides lacking some luthier knowledge I really think this guy has some other problem.
> That's not condoning his errors, just trying to figure a big *WHY???* for some of those mistakes.



 ...Wow. I'm more of a lurker and rarely post on this forum but i just had to reply to this.

You want to know why? *Who cares?* The whys and wherefores are completely irrelevant. The point is that flaws like these shouldn't be showing up on custom guitars, end of story. The reasons for the mistakes are of nobody's concern but the builder's and are no way to justify anything. What do you gain out of speculating that the builder may or may not have a learning disability that would cause him to make such dumb mistakes? Is it because in your mind that if he isn't responsible for his mistakes because he can't 'see' them because of some kind of mental impairment then he's off the hook?

The point is that these mistakes are being made (and on the customer's dime) when they shouldn't be happening at all, end of story.

For the record, i'm not at all a fan of Etherial's designs; to me they're tasteless, tacky and gaudy; and it comes as little surprise to me that they are badly executed.


----------



## Helstormau

Gio18 said:


> Can anyone fill me in on how much i would spend on one of these guitars? 2 grand maybe?



Please tell me you aren't going to throw your money away on one of these planks


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Devotee said:


> ...Wow. I'm more of a lurker and rarely post on this forum but i just had to reply to this.
> 
> You want to know why? *Who cares?* The whys and wherefores are completely irrelevant. *The point is that flaws like these shouldn't be showing up on custom guitars, end of story*. The reasons for the mistakes are of nobody's concern but the builder's and are no way to justify anything. What do you gain out of speculating that the builder may or may not have a learning disability that would cause him to make such dumb mistakes? Is it because in your mind that if he isn't responsible for his mistakes because he can't 'see' them because of some kind of mental impairment then he's off the hook?
> 
> The point is that these mistakes are being made (and on the customer's dime) when they shouldn't be happening at all, end of story.
> 
> For the record, i'm not at all a fan of Etherial's designs; to me they're tasteless, tacky and gaudy; and it comes as little surprise to me that they are badly executed.



I agree on the sentence I bolded.
I'm not defending him, just trying to understand because I'm a curious guy.
I like to know the whys.
Understanding why someone makes a mistake is a good way to learn how to not make the same mistake.
With an humble approach you can learn from mistakes just as much as you learn from good things.

Some questions titillates my curiosity in a morbid way. 
This guy spends lots of time shaping crazy bodies, making big time consuming inlays, then he ....s up the angles of the saddles.
Not 1 for rushing, not 2 for distraction, not 3 for the sake of it...all of them!
The task here is measuring distances and angles, put marks on the guitar to know where you have to drill, then drill.
Obviously you don't measure once, but twice, thrice, four times, five times, the number of times needed to be sure to not .... up.
It's precision measuring, it can take time, but less than cutting, bevelling and sanding a body.
I'm curious about how he can .... up the saddles position.

I know he makes other mistakes, some of which are conceptual mistakes, lack of luthiery knowledge, but this saddles thing drive me crazy since I can't categorize it.

I can't file it under a "he doesn't know woods properties" mistake for example.
If someone kindly explains to me how he could .... up measurments all those times, I promise I'll stop bitchin' moanin' and comin' up with crazy mental theories


----------



## BlackMastodon

So let's talk about this "unique side access panels" that he seems so fond of doing.

Sure, they're unique, but I can't be the only one that thinks they serve no practical function and only hinder you if you need to do any repairs on the electronics, or god forbid you want to swap out pickups.

From an ongoing build (where he had to rebuild the body due to it warping from a heatwave):







Judging by the black... thing.... on the back of the body there, it looks like he did route out a proper, traditional control cavity and then covered it up.  If you already routed it out, and made whatever the hell that is to cover it up, why wouldn't you just use that as the cover plate and not dick around with side access panels that look barely big enough to fit 2 fingers?


----------



## Necromagnon

I trully think is problem is very common: building a guitar in amateur (because he is) is very time consuming, not so easy, and you always want to finish fast. So, there's always some mistakes you see and you "just try to repair it up", or to mask it and say "ok, that's fine, let's move on".

I think we've probably all have this kind of behavior. The only difference here is that you normally have it on the 2/3 first build, maximum. Maybe less. 

PS: about this electronic access, I 100% agree. It's probably to focus the attention on something else. But let's wait to see how many flaws there will be on this "inovation".
_(joke inside, instead I got neg rep again from people without humor...  )_


----------



## BlackMastodon

I wouldn't be surprised if he sanded/shaped the carve into the electronics cover, went "Oh shit....errrrrr side access cover! good 'nough" and went from there.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

I suppose it's the only way to access the electhronics since in the plan the section where the cavity is will be covered by carbon fiber.

The side access is a cool idea design wise but it might be an insane PITA if there's some kind of malfuction.
It would have been way better to use a common plate and cover it with CF imho but probably it would have been a hinder to the design behind the guitar.


----------



## MJS

As they all sat around scratching their heads and wondering how someone could basically take a dump in a guitar case, keep a straight face while calling it a custom guitar, then manage to sucker someone out of thousands of dollars for it... the answer suddenly appeared before their eyes and everything finally started making sense.



Gio18 said:


> Can anyone fill me in on how much i would spend on one of these guitars? 2 grand maybe?


----------



## Churchie777

"Etherial guitars is pleased to officially announce a phase change which will be implemented immediately. 
Please note: All orders currently in progress (and backlogged orders) will continue as normal however NO NEW orders for custom builds will be taken nor will the design service be offered until further notice. Featured models will be accepted during this new phasing period after July 2014. 
Looking forward to revealing the new designs!"...........Hmmmm


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Churchie777 said:


> "Etherial guitars is pleased to officially announce a phase change which will be implemented immediately.
> Please note: All orders currently in progress (and backlogged orders) will continue as normal however NO NEW orders for custom builds will be taken nor will the design service be offered until further notice. Featured models will be accepted during this new phasing period after July 2014.
> Looking forward to revealing the new designs!"...........Hmmmm



So maybe he is going to be using this time to build "production line" guitars over-and-over-and-over until he finally gets it "right" for once? 
Or maybe he is just realizing that he should not being doing customs where everything is different every time?
Speculations?



Helstormau said:


> Please tell me you aren't going to throw your money away on one of these *planks*


----------



## InfinityCollision

Sounds more like he's tooling up for something new and taking the time to work through his backlog.


----------



## Churchie777

Churchie777 said:


> "Etherial guitars is pleased to officially announce a phase change which will be implemented immediately.
> Please note: All orders currently in progress (and backlogged orders) will continue as normal however NO NEW orders for custom builds will be taken nor will the design service be offered until further notice. Until i get my shit together and learn how to build guitars on some form of decent level, ive realised and am also embarrassed that i have charged people in the past for these things "


 fixed it for him


----------



## AwDeOh

Perhaps he's pulling up stumps to go work for Bernie in Mexico?


----------



## Devotee

OmegaSlayer said:


> I agree on the sentence I bolded.
> I'm not defending him, just trying to understand because I'm a curious guy.
> I like to know the whys.
> Understanding why someone makes a mistake is a good way to learn how to not make the same mistake.
> With an humble approach you can learn from mistakes just as much as you learn from good things.
> 
> Some questions titillates my curiosity in a morbid way.
> This guy spends lots of time shaping crazy bodies, making big time consuming inlays, then he ....s up the angles of the saddles.
> Not 1 for rushing, not 2 for distraction, not 3 for the sake of it...all of them!
> The task here is measuring distances and angles, put marks on the guitar to know where you have to drill, then drill.
> Obviously you don't measure once, but twice, thrice, four times, five times, the number of times needed to be sure to not .... up.
> It's precision measuring, it can take time, but less than cutting, bevelling and sanding a body.
> I'm curious about how he can .... up the saddles position.
> 
> I know he makes other mistakes, some of which are conceptual mistakes, lack of luthiery knowledge, but this saddles thing drive me crazy since I can't categorize it.
> 
> I can't file it under a "he doesn't know woods properties" mistake for example.
> If someone kindly explains to me how he could .... up measurments all those times, I promise I'll stop bitchin' moanin' and comin' up with crazy mental theories



When you speculate that he may have some kind of mental disability which leads to him making such mistakes, that's hardly attempting to understand why these mistakes were made in the first place... Just sayin'. Anyhow, i think you pretty much answered your own question. Etherial probably does spend (read: waste) an immense amount of effort on those fugly tribal "inlays" and ridiculous body wraps when perhaps he should be spending more of that effort just building a structurally sound guitar with correct headstock angles, routing, bridge placement, fretwork, etc.. Etherial is a good example of form over function, and even the form isn't even there .

I think one should be able to build very simple guitars (basic body and headstock shape, dot inlays, etc.) of absolutely impeccable quality that would practically sell themselves before even thinking about trying to graduate to something as ambitious as using carbon fibre over obscure Australian woods that no one else uses (for good reason too, apparently). Etherial seems to be putting the horse before the cart.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Devotee said:


> When you speculate that he may have some kind of mental disability which leads to him making such mistakes, that's hardly attempting to understand why these mistakes were made in the first place... Just sayin'. Anyhow, i think you pretty much answered your own question. Etherial probably does spend (read: *waste*) an immense amount of effort on those *fugly* tribal "inlays" and *ridiculous* body wraps when perhaps he should be spending more of that effort just building a structurally sound guitar with correct headstock angles, routing, bridge placement, fretwork, etc.. Etherial is a good example of form over function, and even the form isn't even there .
> 
> I think one should be able to build very simple guitars (basic body and headstock shape, dot inlays, etc.) of absolutely impeccable quality that would practically sell themselves before even thinking about trying to graduate to something as ambitious as using carbon fibre over obscure Australian woods that no one else uses (for good reason too, apparently). Etherial seems to be putting the horse before the cart.



Dude, you totally lost me on waste, fugly and ridiculous.
When you put your bias in a discussion that tries to be honest and impartial, you lose it.
You're basically spitting on and disrespecting someone else's taste.
I don't like some design choices by big luthiers around but don't throw'em into the fray, I keep my mouth shut because if people likes it and THEY pay for it, it's not my business, they happen to like and appreciate something I don't.
Bless them, bless diversity.
There's people here and out there that likes the ideas but is just sorry for the poor amateurish execution.
So, please refrain to facts, and I'll surely agree with you, but not contaminate intelligent posts with your taste, selling it an absolute, because you make your post sound just like Etherial guitars, interesting but poorly executed.


----------



## Pikka Bird

OmegaSlayer said:


> "Taste-stuff"



I didn't originally read his post quite like that, but now that I go back, I guess you're right, actually. The points were valid, but the little drops of biased poison that were scattered throughout might have been better left out.

I personally really, really, really dislike Kerry King's tribal V, but my opinion on it doesn't have any impact on its quality, just like I don't think the very busy and IMO very confusing designs Matt has going on has anything to do with the flaws I see.

However, such language is apparently just the way nowadays, because I see it everywhere, and am slowly (sadly) turning blind to it.


----------



## Devotee

OmegaSlayer said:


> Dude, you totally lost me on waste, fugly and ridiculous.
> When you put your bias in a discussion that tries to be honest and impartial, you lose it.
> You're basically spitting on and disrespecting someone else's taste.
> I don't like some design choices by big luthiers around but don't throw'em into the fray, I keep my mouth shut because if people likes it and THEY pay for it, it's not my business, they happen to like and appreciate something I don't.
> Bless them, bless diversity.
> There's people here and out there that likes the ideas but is just sorry for the poor amateurish execution.
> So, please refrain to facts, and I'll surely agree with you, but not contaminate intelligent posts with your taste, selling it an absolute, because you make your post sound just like Etherial guitars, interesting but poorly executed.



It wasn't my intention to piss on anyone's taste in guitars but even if it was, there's no reason for anyone to be concerned about some troll on internets. However, i do see your point and perhaps i should have worded my post differently. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not attempting to make facts out of my opinion. The fact is that Etherial is charging money for guitars of questionable construction that are being delivered with unacceptable flaws.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

MaxOfMetal said:


> *Holy shit this has gone off-topic. Let's get this back on track. *



^ This.

@Omega: Dude, your petty attempts at an argument have been going on for six+ pages now. Why are you being so controversial and argumentative? Please stop. You are furthering the advancement of this thread becoming more and more derailed. ---- There was ZERO argument in Devotee's two previous posts. He was just stating it like it is with a hypothetical support based on his perceptions and personal opinion. You openly advocated to everyone having an opinion, yet you just cut down his when he merely used the words "fugly" and "ridiculous". Just f.u.c.k.i.n.g. stop.


----------



## Necromagnon




----------



## OmegaSlayer

@wings
I found a pic of you.




It's funny you say I advocated blah blah blah after we read your primary school facebook whining for pages (I won't count how many)
I try to understand something in this thread about this guy and making question that unfortunately no one answered with facts.
If I understand things that are wrong, I will be able to spot them if I might ever cross my road in the future with some not very capable luthier.

Now, what are YOU doing? A Man Of Steel impression in which you save the world from Kryptonite made guitars?

You know what's the difference between me and you in here?
My butt is not hurt.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

*When a Mod says to get back on topic, get the fuck back on topic. *


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> @wings
> I found a pic of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny you say I advocated blah blah blah after we read your primary school facebook whining for pages (I won't count how many)
> I try to understand something in this thread about this guy and making question that unfortunately no one answered with facts.
> If I understand things that are wrong, I will be able to spot them if I might ever cross my road in the future with some not very capable luthier.
> 
> Now, what are YOU doing? A Man Of Steel impression in which you save the world from Kryptonite made guitars?
> 
> You know what's the difference between me and you in here?
> My butt is not hurt.



"Man of steel"? What the f--- does that have to do with anything? (I appreciate you pulling that random compliment out of your ass though.)

You clearly need to brush up on some things. You did NOT do any questioning whatsoever of the factuality nor playability of the guitars (which are the main aspects up for discussion here that people are interested in). Instead, you have sat here for six pages and wasted everyone's time by claiming that "Matt has a mental disorder. Matt has a mental disorder. Matt has a mental disorder" as a mean of trying to validate or condone these mistakes as sheer happenstance. Give it a rest. Maybe YOU are the one with the mental disorder?






End of conversation.

(Sorry Max. Couldn't contain myself.)


----------



## Devotee

Now now children... 

Where were we? Ah yes, Etherial guitars; so has the hype died down yet?


----------



## RedDog22

Churchie777 said:


> "Etherial guitars is pleased to officially announce a phase change which will be implemented immediately.
> Please note: All orders currently in progress (and backlogged orders) will continue as normal however NO NEW orders for custom builds will be taken nor will the design service be offered until further notice. Featured models will be accepted during this new phasing period after July 2014.
> Looking forward to revealing the new designs!"...........Hmmmm


Does thi mean that the "Featured" axe's are consistently pretty well made? I hope that he hires someone else, in the interim, to prevent/limit mistakes or takes some (more?) luthiery courses.


----------



## pestilentdecay




----------



## Helstormau

pestilentdecay said:


>




Is it just me or is this sped up whenever he does that ....ing hand slide thingy? More obvious at around 7:50


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I'd say there are parts of that which are definitely sped up. I happen to like the music these guys make, Lucas is a far better technical player than I'll ever be, and I even love the design of that guitar. So I'm not a RoS "hater" per se, but I do think he misrepresents himself in these videos he does.


----------



## Helstormau

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I'd say there are parts of that which are definitely sped up. I happen to like the music these guys make, Lucas is a far better technical player than I'll ever be, and I even love the design of that guitar. So I'm not a RoS "hater" per se, but I do think he misrepresents himself in these videos he does.



Don't get me wrong, I like rings of saturn (admittedly not as much as I did before). Lucas Mann is what kills them for me. He's just not capable of pulling this shit off without speeding up videos/music etc.and certainly does not live up to his hype. He then has the nerve to make out like this shit isn't even going on. He is the etherial of guitar playing essentially


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Its only a sweep tap slide guys. Its not sped up.


----------



## Helstormau

Lorcan Ward said:


> Its only a sweep tap slide guys. Its not sped up.


 I know that. It still looks sped up though. If you look at how his body is moving while he does it you should see why


----------



## Lorcan Ward

He's moving that way because he's playing so fast and he plays with his elbow & shoulder as oppose to his wrist/forearm. His movements are quite jerky as a result.


----------



## RedDog22

Lorcan Ward said:


> Its only a sweep tap slide guys. Its not sped up.


I've seen the 'sweep tap' before on one of my instructional DVD's. The slide is an addition that never occurred to me  I can add that to my practice now.


----------



## Thrashman

Helstormau said:


> He is the etherial of guitar playing essentially



I believe Al Mu'min is still the top candidate for this position.


----------



## Purelojik

wtf that sounds like someone strangling a cat


----------



## Churchie777

Why is playing all about wank factor now, nearly every clip i see on this forum is "My dicks bigger than yours" playing style.....get some soul back into this bitch


----------



## Helstormau

Churchie777 said:


> Why is playing all about wank factor now, nearly every clip i see on this forum is "My dicks bigger than yours" playing style.....get some soul back into this bitch



....ing oath


----------



## Necromagnon

Churchie777 said:


> Why is playing all about wank factor now, nearly every clip i see on this forum is "My dicks bigger than yours" playing style.....get some soul back into this bitch


You know the story of that guitarist who said he could play triple quavers at 320 bpm? Nobody believed him so he played one.


----------



## Andromalia

Churchie777 said:


> Why is playing all about wank factor now, nearly every clip i see on this forum is "My dicks bigger than yours" playing style.....get some soul back into this bitch


You weren't there in the 80es ?


----------



## Purelojik

Andromalia said:


> You weren't there in the 80es ?



yea but they didnt have to use guitar pro, and could play their shit live while drunk and still shit on everyone lol

may have exaggerated the last point but you get the idea


----------



## Churchie777

Andromalia said:


> You weren't there in the 80es ?



But that was soul they made that shit sing! now its just semi controlled mayhem......im 26 and sounded like a friggin grandpa  i spose my point is people call Santana "simple" and "easy" but that dude is so connected with his playing that i couldnt give 2 shits he aint sweeping or tapping and still he makes that fool in the previous video look stupid


----------



## Devotee

Churchie777 said:


> Why is playing all about wank factor now, nearly every clip i see on this forum is "My dicks bigger than yours" playing style.....get some soul back into this bitch



This. It's either heavily gated chuggalugga on the open 8th string or quantised sweeps and taps. All this so-called modern "Metal" is more processed than a McRib nowadays.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I seem to remember someone saying to stay on topic.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Devotee said:


> All this so-called modern "Metal" is more processed than a McRib nowadays.



McRibs are ....in' delicious, though.

I'm done now. Just wanted to get that out the way. Now I want a rib sandwich.


----------



## Malkav

There was a picture of that "speeds up stuff" dude's white hole punched Etherial in some or other thread and it showed the back of that guitar, which looked horrible on so many levels, could someone please explain WTF is up with the design on the back of that thing?


----------



## xwmucradiox

Helstormau said:


> I know that. It still looks sped up though. If you look at how his body is moving while he does it you should see why



When you reduce the quality of video the frame rate can be reduced which causes those "jerky" movements when someone is playing really fast. The playing speed in that video is totally attainable by anyone willing to practice the riffs for a few days.


----------



## stevexc

xwmucradiox said:


> When you reduce the quality of video the frame rate can be reduced which causes those "jerky" movements when someone is playing really fast. The playing speed in that video is totally attainable by anyone willing to practice the riffs for a few days.



Agreed - nothing jumps out at me saying definitively that the video is sped up. That being said, his playing sounds awful.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

*One last time, if you guys don't get back on topic, and stay, there will be a bunch of naps all up in this bitch. *


----------



## darren

ormsby guitars said:


> This is the point. For starters, no one, NO ONE, uses blue gum (and Jarrah is considered a sin) for guitar making. There is a reason for that. Australia has some wonderful tonewoods, but like the rest of the world, only a small handful of local timbers are suitable (tonally, workable, stable, weight, defect prone, etc).
> 
> The fact it moved, means it isn't dry. Read that once more. It WILL dry, and move more, well after your bass is finished. These are fundamental faults. Sure he has been up front. That's great. But he is being up front about something that is structurally not fit for use.





I came across this while doing some wood research tonight, and figured it was relevant to this discussion:



> Blue Gum tends to have many internal stresses and drying difficulties, and also has a large amount of movement in service, which excludes it from being used in applications where stability is important. Glues and finishes well.



(Emphasis added)

Courtesy of http://www.wood-database.com

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/blue-gum/

I do a LOT of research into every part of my builds. I see interesting and unique woods all the time, but don't consider using them until I've done my homework first.


----------



## Necromagnon

darren said:


> I do a LOT of research into every part of my builds. I see interesting and unique woods all the time, but don't consider using them until I've done my homework first.


I think Etherial still has a lot of homeworks to do ...


----------



## jonajon91

It seems Etherial has somewhat gone in to hibernation the last month or so. Hopefully using this time to go back and fix old builds and re-start up the company with more knowledge and know-how.


----------



## hardvalve

He should team up with Fretsong....


----------



## TemjinStrife

jonajon91 said:


> It seems Etherial has somewhat gone in to hibernation the last month or so. Hopefully using this time to go back and fix old builds and re-start up the company with more knowledge and know-how.





I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## jonajon91

It seems Etherial have broken their silence with this picture






But still, some of that spray paint work looks a little off (though only in the places that will be eventually covered by the tuners).


----------



## TheFashel12

Is that a template


----------



## thrsher

darren said:


> I came across this while doing some wood research tonight, and figured it was relevant to this discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> (Emphasis added)
> 
> Courtesy of The Wood Database | Hardwood and Softwood Lumber Identification
> 
> Blue Gum | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwoods)
> 
> I do a LOT of research into every part of my builds. I see interesting and unique woods all the time, but don't consider using them until I've done my homework first.



after seeing this, i just cancelled my order


----------



## xwmucradiox

jonajon91 said:


> It seems Etherial have broken their silence with this picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But still, some of that spray paint work looks a little off (though only in the places that will be eventually covered by the tuners).



That's a piece of polished metal with reflections. No spray paint most likely.


----------



## jonajon91

I shit I see that now.

---edit---

Durrrr, feel like a fool now.


----------



## Purelojik

kudos to him if hes tooling up properly, with templates and such. may be late, but its better than never.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Unearthly artistry


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

thrsher said:


> after seeing this, i just cancelled my order



Hope you get all your money back within a reasonable time, he originally said he could be it back at best in April/May, I literally got the rest of it back today. I was having to get pretty pointed with the conversation, but I could have gotten really nasty and just gone after him, but I didn't. Trying to take the high road once or twice in my life hahah


----------



## naw38

Looks to me in that photo like it's going to have the same stupid ....ing problem mine did, with strings resting on the headstock.


----------



## Necris

I'd ask what exactly is going on on the headstock under the tuner holes on that metal plate, but I'm not totally sure I want to know.


----------



## ormsby guitars

thrsher said:


> after seeing this, i just cancelled my order



What, the ten times I mentioned it wasn't enough?


----------



## theo

He needed 1 more straw before the back broke.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Been rather quiet on the Etherial front lately but this recent update got me wondering.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...992.1073741832.160482497322500&type=1&theater

I've never owned a guitar with a kahler (have played them) and I really wonder how arduous of a process it must be to tune this headless guitar.


----------



## Hollowway

What am I missing here - is there a new headless Kahler system? That certainly does look like a Kahler, but I'm not sure how the heck you'd get the strings on. I guess I'd need to see the head(less) portion to figure out what is going on there.


----------



## Alberto7

Hollowway said:


> What am I missing here - is there a new headless Kahler system? That certainly does look like a Kahler, but I'm not sure how the heck you'd get the strings on. I guess I'd need to see the head(less) portion to figure out what is going on there.



Do you have a FB account? I don't know if you can see the rest of the pictures without one. In any case, here are the other two pics showing the headless portion of it... kinda. Not very detailed, but just kinda:











I'm not entirely sure how a Kahler works, but couldn't you just clamp one end of the strings into the saddles like you would in a Floyd and then cut the ball end of the strings off at the head(less) piece? Tuning would a total nightmare though.


----------



## capoeiraesp

That's exactly what I was referring to. Making it headless etc is simple enough but I wonder how much tension you'd have to pull the strings through to and then how much tuning range you'd actually get from the bridge pieces.


----------



## downburst82

> *Etherial Guitars *The Bridge is a standard 2300 series tremolo with an ABM headpiece. Reason being each string can be locked off individually. Tuning it done with the assistance of the tremolo as it relies on the extra tension gained. This is set to CGCFAd tuning so each string needs to be pulled to relative tension, tremolo released to neutral then fine tune at the bridge to get in tune. It's a bit odd but works.
> Like · 32 minutes ago



Posted an explanation on facebook.

ya...I guess??


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm probably reading too much into the last part, but if something is "a bit odd, but works," it sounds like a turnoff to me.


----------



## capoeiraesp

"It's a bit odd but works."

Ahhh the Etherial philosophy... although i'd say 'works' is probably just as interchangeable with 'it might work'.


----------



## Pikka Bird

I gotta say, if that had a headstock (but none of the "classic" etherial ones) then it's actually a really sleek design with the Kahler recessed like that and carbon neck, etc.

_However_, I really still doubt this build will hold up to scrutiny, and that tuning method is a major hassle. It's like the method you use when you snap a string on your Floyd and you gotta unlock the nut, unwind some string off the tuner, rock the tremolo forward to make the string reach the saddle lock and then pray to Bob that you got the length somewhat right.


----------



## Necromagnon

It sounds to me to be some kind of desire from the customer, and he lacks the criticism to say: "no, it's not a good idea" or something, and just did what the guy wanted. But seen from afar, the guitar looks cool though. Let's hope he got better at building guitars, and that he will left this stupid "trve-evil-9-yo-metalhead" designs...


----------



## Pikka Bird

Necromagnon said:


> ...and that he will left this stupid "trve-evil-9-yo-metalhead" designs...



Well, this new one doesn't have an inlay of the "million billion spikes" variety. Now he only needs a new logo to get rid of that hot mess entirely.


----------



## patata

Really simple.I like it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

There were a couple of guitar companies in the 80's to try the whole "use-a-locking-bridge-for-headless" idea, and they failed miserably. Those tiny fine-tuners on the Kahler (or Floyd for that matter) just don't have the range for full tuning and stringing. You have enough clearance for about two semitones, then you hit a wall. 

Kahlers aren't even locking either, so the second a ball-end shifts in the claw, or if the rollers aren't well lubed you'll be in tuning hell all over again. 

Typical Etherial idea: lets take a bad idea and give it flash. I bet 90% of the folks who see this guitar gush about the carbon fiber neck and headless neck before giving the functionality of it a second thought.


----------



## naw38

Necromagnon said:


> and that he will left this stupid "trve-evil-9-yo-metalhead" designs...



Man, people really need to drop this line of attack when bashing Etherial. The guitars he builds are designed by the customers - if people want spikes and "evil" graphics or whatever, that's on them. Not the company/builder. 

Anybody else seen the 16 string he posted about earlier? 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...257.1073741829.160482497322500&type=1&theater 

Looks nasty as. I've been waiting to see what was to come of that idea for ages now.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

downburst82 said:


> Posted an explanation on facebook.
> 
> ya...I guess??



I'm just gonna sit here and turn my machine head's tuning peg and play...


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

naw38 said:


> Man, people really need to drop this line of attack when bashing Etherial. The guitars he builds are designed by the customers - if people want spikes and "evil" graphics or whatever, that's on them. Not the company/builder.
> 
> Anybody else seen the 16 string he posted about earlier?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...257.1073741829.160482497322500&type=1&theater
> 
> Looks nasty as. I've been waiting to see what was to come of that idea for ages now.



OMG...

This is just terrible. Someone really had to go there. Most obnoxious design with the most obnoxious concept and an obnoxious amount of strings.
An 8-string with the traditional 12-string doubled-string concept? No. No. No. No. No.


----------



## Pikka Bird

naw38 said:


> Man, people really need to drop this line of attack when bashing Etherial. The guitars he builds are designed by the customers - if people want spikes and "evil" graphics or whatever, that's on them. Not the company/builder.



He designed (and named) most of his own shapes, put the swirly spaghetti inlays on 80% of the mockups on his site (which is no longer up?) and settled on that logo. So yeah, that _is_ his approach to design.

edit: And for the record, I don't hate all of it. Most of those cyber-themed ones are rather cool concepts, and you'll see that's the type most people are talking about/ordering.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I'm wondering how that Kahler headless will really work. It's going to be really hard to pull those to tension at the head. But what would be cool is if he designed a piece of hardware that would snap or clamp onto the headless portion that could wind the strings up to pitch, then you'd lock them down and clip them.


----------



## Pikka Bird

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I'm wondering how that Kahler headless will really work. It's going to be really hard to pull those to tension at the head. But what would be cool is if he designed a piece of hardware that would snap or clamp onto the headless portion that could wind the strings up to pitch, then you'd lock them down and clip them.



I actually once saw a build that had an accessory like that. It was basically a detachable headstock with regular tuners that you'd butt up to the end of the neck and just tune up like you do with regular guitars and then you'd cut the strings right after the nut and detach the headstock again. 

You're going to need to really be sure that you're applying the right locking pressure, though. This isn't as important at the nut with regular headstocks.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Imagine how much fun that thing will be to change a string in a live situation.


----------



## jonajon91

I promised myself that I would stay away from this thread, but this is not a bridge, this is a block of metal.





Also two F# strings at the bottom, there is not a situation in my head where that will sound good.


----------



## Grif

Etherial guitars are, how do I put it, odd? But I will be honest, the idea of a guitar with 8 courses interests me and I'd like to hear it at some point.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Notice how the high E String sits on the edge of the fretboard and is slotted as far away as it possibly could be on the bridge. Yeah, that's gonna be awesome to shred on.


----------



## jonajon91

Grabbed some more recent pictures off facebook that have not appeared on here.




I don't know what build this is going to be apart of, but I think the material was brass.




I assume this will be the same build.




Don't know about this build either.




This build was scrapped because the wood warped.




Can't make out the text on the 12th fret.


----------



## Prophetable

jonajon91 said:


> Can't make out the text on the 12th fret.



Oh, it's a worse version of this Daemoness.


----------



## jonajon91

Isnt every guitar a worse version of a Daemoness?


----------



## Alberto7




----------



## patata

haha,funny how everyone is bashing the 16string one,but if lets say,XEN or anyone else that open minded did something similar they would be all like ''wow that's interesting.''


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

patata said:


> haha,funny how everyone is bashing the 16string one,but if lets say,XEN or anyone else that open minded did something similar they would be all like ''wow that's interesting.''



XEN would actually do it right.

/ignorance


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

patata said:


> haha,funny how everyone is bashing the 16string one,but if lets say,XEN or anyone else that open minded did something similar they would be all like ''wow that's interesting.''



XEN wouldn't do something ugly as that. I don't like their designs, but at least they're ergonomic and tasteful. 

That Etherial looks like someone melted a friggen BC Rich Warlock. It's gaudy and looks like it would be extremely uncomfortable to play.

Christ, given all the flawed guitars we've seen him ship, I can't believe Etherial still has defenders.


----------



## Grif

capoeiraesp said:


> Notice how the high E String sits on the edge of the fretboard and is slotted as far away as it possibly could be on the bridge. Yeah, that's gonna be awesome to shred on.


I never said the idea of Ethierial doing a 16 string is interesting, to clarify the idea of a 16 string like this done correctly is interesting.


----------



## jonajon91

Ha, you cheeky bugger.


----------



## Hollowway

I'd love a double coursed 8. I know there'd be very little use for it, but I'm all about relatively useless guitars. 

I'm still hoping Matt gets his technique down. Or cares too. I know his designs aren't for everyone, but I love how different they are, and I'd totally get one if they were quality. They look like what Dylan would design if he took meth and mushrooms at the same time.


----------



## Andromalia

jonajon91 said:


> Isnt every guitar a worse version of a Daemoness?


Nope.


----------



## icos211

jonajon91 said:


> I promised myself that I would stay away from this thread, but this is not a bridge, this is a block of metal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also two F# strings at the bottom, there is not a situation in my head where that will sound good.



Just looking at how crooked every single saddle on that bridge is makes me sick. Not a single one of those strings sits on the bridge straight, and most completely miss the pole pieces of at least one pickup. 10 different kinds of shoddy.


----------



## naw38

Pikka Bird said:


> He designed (and named) most of his own shapes, put the swirly spaghetti inlays on 80% of the mockups on his site (which is no longer up?) and settled on that logo. So yeah, that _is_ his approach to design.
> 
> edit: And for the record, I don't hate all of it. Most of those cyber-themed ones are rather cool concepts, and you'll see that's the type most people are talking about/ordering.



Okay, that's a fair point. But most of the time when people buy an Etherial, they have their own guitar designed, and don't use any of his. 

And I'm not trying to defend the company at all, let's be clear on that. Just peoples choice to buy whatever stupid looking pointy monstrosity they want(my own guitar included in that).


----------



## Necromagnon

naw38 said:


> Okay, that's a fair point. But most of the time when people buy an Etherial, they have their own guitar designed, and don't use any of his.


And most of those design are not that bad. 
If you look at all the "artist" guitars he built (the white one above, the Nayon's one, and some others), they have rather nice design. Not always well used and balanced, but still interesting.


----------



## jonajon91

I still think that the best thing for Etherial would be a merge with a company or at least expanding the business so it is not just him, he should get a guy with 30 years experience on board.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Why would a guy with 30 years guitar building experience want to team up with a new business? There would be only one reason... that person was unsuccessful.


----------



## Necromagnon

I think his best chance is to start a meat business: his guitars would finally find some use and make fancy steacks.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jonajon91 said:


> I still think that the best thing for Etherial would be a merge with a company or at least expanding the business so it is not just him, he should get a guy with 30 years experience on board.


 
Or you know, just work on making solid, functional, completely playable guitars before worrying about uncommon materials, crazy inlay, and over the top paint jobs. 

There seems to be this notion that if a builder isn't doing good it's because they just need a babysitter, whether it be an seasoned builder, a business manager, or just a team of unskilled helpers. How is someone supposed to get better if they have a crutch? 

Guys like Etherial need to step back, evaluate thier operation and start slow. It's not easy, nor fun, but it beats being the next Bernie Rick Jr.


----------



## XxJoshxX

LOL!!!!
Chet Lewis needs some help
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...257.1073741829.160482497322500&type=1&theater


----------



## Insinfier

ormsby guitars said:


> 30 years guitar building experience



Etherial? 30 years?


----------



## ormsby guitars

Insinfier said:


> Etherial? 30 years?





jonajon91 said:


> I still think that the best thing for Etherial would be a merge with a company or at least expanding the business so it is not just him, *he should get a guy with 30 years experience on board.*


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

New Etherial (single-cut with the bird inlays) was finished today and pictures (taken by Matt) were posted by the owner who is awaiting it.

The Etherial Custom Kuyuate-8 single-cut.

It's pretty conservative compared to past stuff. But I still vomited in my mouth a little bit upon seeing it...


----------



## jonajon91

I don't know if it's just me, but that fretboard looks dirty. I do love the upper horn design though.


----------



## Erockomania

Are those inlays or does he just paint the stuff on there and lacquer over it. And that upper horn carve... yikes. Look at the lines/shadows. So bad. Highschool wood-shop bad.


----------



## asher

Routes look okay, something about the neck joint looks funky but I can't tell if that's lighting on a neck thru or a big neck pocket.

The upper horn looks pretty bad, but from a design standpoint. The proportions on this otherwise are rather off IMO, which is a shame because this one could actually be pretty cool otherwise.


----------



## Alberto7

Of course, this is just me, but that guitar looks to have been lazily done from a design point of view. Nothing seems to actually flow well together. I'm not a fan of them at all, but I'll take one of his more extreme designs over this one.


----------



## asher

Alberto7 said:


> Of course, this is just me, but that guitar looks to have been lazily done from a design point of view. Nothing seems to actually flow well together. I'm not a fan of them at all, but I'll take one of his more extreme designs over this one.



Well said!


----------



## Purelojik

neck alumitone pup isnt aligned properly. needs to be a few mm to the left, and the left bout needs to have been smoothed over a bit more. that kinda stuff annoys me. gotta say the guitar itself at least looks solid this time. not my taste in curves and lines but thats not important.


----------



## stevexc

On the bright side, it doesn't look like there's much _wrong_ with the guitar, just _unattractive_ things. Upper horn aside, the shape from roughly the neck pickup down looks pretty nice, tbh.

The neck pickup itself appears to be slightly angled, though - but little enough that it may be the angle of the picture and/or the lighting. As well there's some odd light patches at the bottom of the neck that I can't figure out.

And what the hell is that silver thing on the upper horn... reminds me of those little USB dongles you'd use for a wireless mouse or something, haha. Pick holder?

EDIT: I guess I'm not the only one who sees that!


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Seems solid.
Ugly as a baboon's butt, but solid.


----------



## MF_Kitten

I know the guy who ordered the one where the wood warped actually. He cancelled his order with Etherial entirely.

Also, that headless... Yikes... Basically he means that the owner has to pull each string TO PITCH and lock it there at the nut. Then fine tune at the bridge. This is a NIGHTMARE system. It could be done with an Evertune, where you have more tuning range and you don't have to stretch your strings. Seriously, imagine the process of this with me:

You put the ball-end into the Kahler unit. You pull it through the ABM headpiece. Using a pair of pliers you pull the string while plucking it and looking at the tuner. Once it hits your desired note, you have to lock it down. You basically need to have your hand ready to lock it right away. Oh, and you have to do this before your arm gets too tired to hold that note in place. Now you need to do that for the next string. This time you have to do the same procedure all over again, except you also have to try and mute the previous string so the tuner can get a clear readout. You have to keep the tremolo in locked mode while doing this, but from what I hear they aren't made to hold that much tension on the locking screw alone. Anyway, then you repeat this for all 6 strings, at which point you'll probably have a dead arm from holding strings at full tension. Now you have to fine tune each of these strings. Yay, they're in tune for the moment, let's play it! Oh dammit, the strings are stretching! OK, so let's stretch all these strings, shall we? That way they won't drop in pitch when tuned! Okay, so the strings are stretched, and we just need to tune them back up... Oh wait, the tremolo doesn't have enough tuning range to do that... Alright, so I guess we need to unlock each string at the headpiece and pull them to the right pitch AGAIN. Oh, and remember to start pulling BEFORE you unlock it, so the string doesn't get pulled out of the headpiece (which will be a dramatic event, considering the tension!). Good luck, and go see a massage therapist for that arm!

Seriously, this is a nightmare. What a complete disaster of a concept.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jonajon91 said:


>



Dat intonation.


----------



## Helstormau

Seems the guitars get uglier with age. That 16 string thing is just ghastly


----------



## OmegaSlayer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Dat intonation.



Why losing time to intonate a guitar if after the shipping to the other side of the world it needs a new setup?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

OmegaSlayer said:


> Why losing time to intonate a guitar if after the shipping to the other side of the world it needs a new setup?



To see if it can. Given other Etherial builds, that's not always a sure thing.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

*MOD EDIT: This isn't OT, keep it guitar related. *


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

Oh why did I have to look over this post, I knew my guitar would come under scrutiny...
I am the owner of Kuyuate-8 (The one with the crow inlays) by the way.
I must need glasses or something because I don't really see what people mean with the neck pick-up?


----------



## InfinityCollision

The pickup is offset slightly to the right and there's a mm or two more distance from the last fret on the treble side than on the bass side.


----------



## stevexc

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Oh why did I have to look over this post, I knew my guitar would come under scrutiny...
> I am the owner of Kuyuate-8 (The one with the crow inlays) by the way.
> I must need glasses or something because I don't really see what people mean with the neck pick-up?



Like I said, it could very well just be the angle of the picture, but the neck pickup appears to be further from the end of the fretboard on the treble side than on the bass side. Most noticeable in the first pic jonajon posted.

That said, as long as you're happy with it, awesome. I personally am not a big fan of the aesthetics, but complaining about how someone else's _custom-made guitar_ looks doesn't make any sense to me, haha. Obviously you like the look and that's really what matters. I do, however, really like the curve at the bottom of the body - it's sleek enough to be classy, but pointed enough to have that aggressive look.

Overall, what are your thoughts on it? How does it sound/play? Someone mentioned the intonation, were you able to get that set properly (I figure he just took the pictures before he did a full setup on it)? And what exactly is that white/silver thing on the upper horn?


----------



## Riley

Sweet fretwork bro. Those frets were too tall to begin with anyway.


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

stevexc said:


> Like I said, it could very well just be the angle of the picture, but the neck pickup appears to be further from the end of the fretboard on the treble side than on the bass side. Most noticeable in the first pic jonajon posted.


Oh yeah I see. To be honest that's no biggy, it looks like an easy fix if needed, but to be honest I don't think it'll be a problem unless it ruins the tone.



stevexc said:


> That said, as long as you're happy with it, awesome. I personally am not a big fan of the aesthetics, but complaining about how someone else's _custom-made guitar_ looks doesn't make any sense to me, haha. Obviously you like the look and that's really what matters. I do, however, really like the curve at the bottom of the body - it's sleek enough to be classy, but pointed enough to have that aggressive look.


Oh yes I'm totally happy with how he's turned out. Everything on the guitar is to my request, even the body shape. It's based on a T style (tele) shape which he wasn't doing at the time. And yeah, I don't really get how people can down mark a (custom) guitar on it's looks because it wasn't made for them. Even going as far as that 16 string. Yeah, to me it's ugly but obviously that's what the customer wants so who am I to comment?
I'm glad you like it man!



stevexc said:


> Overall, what are your thoughts on it? How does it sound/play? Someone mentioned the intonation, were you able to get that set properly (I figure he just took the pictures before he did a full setup on it)? And what exactly is that white/silver thing on the upper horn?


Matt has only just sent off the guitar today so I unfortunately can't comment on tone/feel/intonation currently, but it should be with me in about a week so I can comment then. I plan to make a video as well so people can see it in action too.


----------



## stevexc

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Oh yeah I see. To be honest that's no biggy, it looks like an easy fix if needed, but to be honest I don't think it'll be a problem unless it ruins the tone.



It shouldn't, at worse it's just a little bit of sloppiness, which is one of Etherial's consistent issues. However this is far better than most of his other builds. By a lot.



Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Oh yes I'm totally happy with how he's turned out. Everything on the guitar is to my request, even the body shape. It's based on a T style (tele) shape which he wasn't doing at the time. And yeah, I don't really get how people can down mark a (custom) guitar on it's looks because it wasn't made for them. Even going as far as that 16 string. Yeah, to me it's ugly but obviously that's what the customer wants so who am I to comment?
> I'm glad you like it man!



That one's actually one of his house designs... But I'm with you. If it's the customer's design it's all up to the customer's preference. But apart from Etherial's instruments that's rarely a complaint around here.




Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Matt has only just sent off the guitar today so I unfortunately can't comment on tone/feel/intonation currently, but it should be with me in about a week so I can comment then. I plan to make a video as well so people can see it in action too.



Good to hear, hope it works out for you! Don't be dissuaded by the critique it undoubtedly will get, with the sheer number of misses Matt's had everything he makes is going to be over-analyzed. But that goes for any builder who's been having issues - ViK, Strictly 7, Jackson, and BRJ amongst others get the same treatment. If you're happy with it, awesome.


----------



## Necromagnon

Guys, I don't think the pup is off: the fretboard end is not straight, that's what gives this impression (look at the distance last fret/end of fretboard). It seems it wasn't meant to be like that as it seems the customer didn't ask for it, but let's say it's all on design purpose, nobody will go check that out. 

Btw, it looks BY FAR one of his best builds. No real issue visible on the pictures, and that's a big step forward for him: he finally understood he needs to stop shooting the defects. 
 _  (joke inside, just in case ... )_


----------



## isispelican

that 16 string is a joke


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

MF_Kitten said:


> I know the guy who ordered the one where the wood warped actually. He cancelled his order with Etherial entirely.



Oh hai


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

OmegaSlayer said:


> Seems solid.
> Ugly as a baboon's butt, but solid.











Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Oh why did I have to look over this post, I knew my guitar would come under scrutiny...
> I am the owner of Kuyuate-8 (The one with the crow inlays) by the way.
> I must need glasses or something because I don't really see what people mean with the neck pick-up?



Hey Josh. Glad you could randomly join this forum just for the purpose of snapping up to defend Etherial.
I'm sure that based on those mere TWO POSTS that you have thus far, you'll have an established reputation of credibility with all the members here and they will dig you.


----------



## capoeiraesp

^ ease up man. He joined in Feb so he may not have had much else to say. 

The best thing he could do for cred sake is be honest and transparent about the review and give some nice clear shots of details.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

capoeiraesp said:


> ^ ease up man. He joined in Feb so he may not have had much else to say.
> 
> The best thing he could do for cred sake is be honest and transparent about the review and give some nice clear shots of details.



Sorry mate. I just think it's "suspicious" is all.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Experience has certainly taught us so.


----------



## technomancer

Erockomania said:


> Are those inlays or does he just paint the stuff on there and lacquer over it. And that upper horn carve... yikes. Look at the lines/shadows. So bad. Highschool wood-shop bad.



It's not inlay. He uses a technique that's become trendy where you carve out the shapes and fill it with epoxy or another colored filler. It has the advantage that you can do some really fine and intricate stuff and is MUCH easier to do than real inlay because instead of cutting pieces to inlay that have to match your shapes you just need to get the wood carving right. Most guys on here seem to either not understand or not care about the difference.

Some of the earlier stuff I do think was just painted on though, or carved, painted, and then epoxied over.


----------



## narad

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Oh why did I have to look over this post, I knew my guitar would come under scrutiny...
> I am the owner of Kuyuate-8 (The one with the crow inlays) by the way.



Did you by chance order a fretboard with crows/_multiple_ on it, or did you order it as a single crow, copied/scaled/rotated numerous times over the fretboard?


----------



## Churchie777

God them pick holders in the body are an eye sore


----------



## MF_Kitten

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Oh hai



I don't like name dropping people in situations like these, ya know?

But yeah, I can't understand how someone manages to do that.


----------



## MF_Kitten

technomancer said:


> It's not inlay. He uses a technique that's become trendy where you carve out the shapes and fill it with epoxy or another colored filler. It has the advantage that you can do some really fine and intricate stuff and is MUCH easier to do than real inlay because instead of cutting pieces to inlay that have to match your shapes you just need to get the wood carving right. Most guys on here seem to either not understand or not care about the difference.
> 
> Some of the earlier stuff I do think was just painted on though, or carved, painted, and then epoxied over.



I mean, that's kinda brilliant as far as techniques go though, VS doing actual inlays.


----------



## AxeHappy

And some things simply aren't really feasible with actual inlay. Doesn't bother me. But it shouldn't be called inlay work.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I don't like the built in pick holders, either. I'm not even sure how those things work. Who makes them? I want to see a picture of picks in one.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't like the built in pick holders, either. I'm not even sure how those things work. Who makes them? I want to see a picture of picks in one.



"Whelp, I very well can't learn to hold on to my picks, and I hate pockets, so..." ::sigh::

A solution looking for a problem.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> "Whelp, I very well can't learn to hold on to my picks, and I hate pockets, so..." ::sigh::
> 
> A solution looking for a problem.



Well, when I play, I play nude, so there's only one place I can stash my picks, and I usually keep a AA battery there, so this would be helpful for me.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

narad said:


> Did you by chance order a fretboard with crows/_multiple_ on it, or did you order it as a single crow, copied/scaled/rotated numerous times over the fretboard?



THIS!!! ^


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Hey Josh. Glad you could randomly join this forum just for the purpose of snapping up to defend Etherial.
> I'm sure that based on those mere TWO POSTS that you have thus far, you'll have an established reputation of credibility with all the members here and they will dig you.



*Sigh*. Hi Lucas.
I didn't _just_ join this forum to defend etherial. I had seen this thread before and as I now own an etherial I'd thought id see what people had to say about my guitar.
And (going back on topic) seeing as the only things people are mentioning are personal preference things and a slightly missaligned neck pickup (which quite frankly I think is a camera angle issue more than anything) I'm really not worried.

Also, I'm sorry I only have 2 posts here, we all have to start somewhere right?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> *Sigh*. Hi Lucas.
> I didn't _just_ join this forum to defend ethereal.



Who? 
The name's Jon, mate.
Back on topic.


----------



## Riley

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> *Sigh*. Hi Lucas.
> I didn't _just_ join this forum to defend etherial. I had seen this thread before and as I now own an etherial I'd thought id see what people had to say about my guitar.
> And (going back on topic) seeing as the only things people are mentioning are personal preference things and a slightly missaligned neck pickup (which quite frankly I think is a camera angle issue more than anything) I'm really not worried.
> 
> Also, I'm sorry I only have 2 posts here, we all have to start somewhere right?



What about the poor fretwork?...


----------



## UnderTheSign

AxeHappy said:


> And some things simply aren't really feasible with actual inlay. Doesn't bother me. But it shouldn't be called inlay work.


Doesn't Dylan/Daemoness do a lot of stuff this way too? Never seen anyone not call it inlaying there.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

UnderTheSign said:


> Doesn't Dylan/Daemoness do a lot of stuff this way too? Never seen anyone not call it inlaying there.



The most I've seen Daemoness do like this, use filler instead of material, is on the guitar with a scorpion on it, and it was just a little used to make the "joints" of the segmented critter. There's other spots with filler here and there throughout his portfolio, but overall I'd say roughly 95% is inlay, in the traditional sense, with a little filler here and there when it suits the piece, or a super minimal cock up. 

I was actually quite critical of Dylan's inlay work when his guitars first started getting posted here, and I thought he used a lot of filler, but when more high res pics started showing up, you could see it wasn't filler. That's how good he is. 

I say that as someone who will likely never get a Daemoness. I think Dylan's metal-as-religion schtick is silly, and have a less-is-more approach to inlay on my own instruments, but I will give credit where credit is due, he's DAMN good at inlay work.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

MaxOfMetal said:


> I say that as someone who will likely never get a Daemoness. I think Dylan's metal-as-religion schtick is silly, and have a less-is-more approach to inlay on my own instruments, but I will give credit where credit is due, he's DAMN good at inlay work.



Some of his stuff like the post-apocalyptic city and the guitar with the eye on the fretboard are absolutely amazing. (Just mentioning since they fall outside of the "metal-as-religion" schtick.) His 18th century gimmick is kind of cool though, haha. Wish I could afford one.


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Who?
> The name's Jon, mate.
> Back on topic.



My bad.


----------



## UnderTheSign

MaxOfMetal said:


> The most I've seen Daemoness do like this, use filler instead of material, is on the guitar with a scorpion on it, and it was just a little used to make the "joints" of the segmented critter. There's other spots with filler here and there throughout his portfolio, but overall I'd say roughly 95% is inlay, in the traditional sense, with a little filler here and there when it suits the piece, or a super minimal cock up.
> 
> I was actually quite critical of Dylan's inlay work when his guitars first started getting posted here, and I thought he used a lot of filler, but when more high res pics started showing up, you could see it wasn't filler. That's how good he is.
> 
> I say that as someone who will likely never get a Daemoness. I think Dylan's metal-as-religion schtick is silly, and have a less-is-more approach to inlay on my own instruments, but I will give credit where credit is due, he's DAMN good at inlay work.


Ah, right. I thought a lot of his inlayed stuff would've been filled up. Not in a bad way, just cause it's an easier way to make elaborate decorations.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Who?
> The name's Jon, mate.
> Back on topic.



Uh...hahahah wut


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

CaptainLuckeyBeard said:


> Uh...hahahah wut



Are we ever gonna meet up in the fields and jam some jazz-fusion?


----------



## darren

AxeHappy said:


> And some things simply aren't really feasible with actual inlay. Doesn't bother me. But it shouldn't be called inlay work.



What would you call it? 

"Inlay" is the generic term for decorating the surface of one material with a layer of another material. There's nothing that says the material being inlaid has to be in solid form. Does it matter if plastic inlays are solid or liquid when put into the wood?

Marquetry or intarsia are much more specific techniques within the broader definition of inlay. But i think nitpicking over whether resin-filled cavities count as "inlay" or not is a bit of a meaningless distinction.


----------



## technomancer

MaxOfMetal said:


> The most I've seen Daemoness do like this, use filler instead of material, is on the guitar with a scorpion on it, and it was just a little used to make the "joints" of the segmented critter. There's other spots with filler here and there throughout his portfolio, but overall I'd say roughly 95% is inlay, in the traditional sense, with a little filler here and there when it suits the piece, or a super minimal cock up.
> 
> I was actually quite critical of Dylan's inlay work when his guitars first started getting posted here, and I thought he used a lot of filler, but when more high res pics started showing up, you could see it wasn't filler. That's how good he is.
> 
> I say that as someone who will likely never get a Daemoness. I think Dylan's metal-as-religion schtick is silly, and have a less-is-more approach to inlay on my own instruments, but I will give credit where credit is due, he's DAMN good at inlay work.



A lot of Dylan's work is done with this technique. Most of the scorpion you mentioned (anything that looks silver basically), the Thor's Hammer guitar with all the celtic knot work, etc were done with this technique. All of the stuff that looks like line art is IIRC done this way as well. The recent one with the "infected eye" is also all this technique except for a few center highlights on the eye. Nothing against it at all, it looks freaking amazing and when you have the skill Dylan has you can do some incredible detailed stuff, but it isn't inlay. Not to say Dylan isn't damn good at inlay as there are some amazing inlaid guitars he's done, but a lot of the ones guys have flipped over on here are this technique.


----------



## ormsby guitars

The difference is, Dylan uses the correct materials, and not "glue mixed with stains, which then seep into the grain making it all fuzzy and blotchy".


----------



## technomancer

ormsby guitars said:


> The difference is, Dylan uses the correct materials, and not "glue mixed with stains, which then seep into the grain making it all fuzzy and blotchy".



No argument on that, Dylan does damn nice work and has built some stunning guitars.


----------



## Pikka Bird

ormsby guitars said:


> The difference is, Dylan uses the correct materials, and not "glue mixed with stains, which then seep into the grain making it all fuzzy and blotchy".



Exactly what I was going to say. I haven't got any beef with the technique itself, as long as you're good with it, but the wood pores around the inlays on Etherial guitars seem to be getting "inlaid" as well rather often.


----------



## ormsby guitars

I think that he goes for the fur look. Furry tribal is the new rage.


----------



## Prophetable

I know it's a bit off of the original topic: I'd just like to say that it is, definitely, a type of inlay. All that is required to be inlay is that there is one material set into another.

To make this post on topic I'll say... uh...
Etherial... uh... dumb.


----------



## UnderTheSign

ormsby guitars said:


> I think that he goes for the fur look. Furry tribal is the new rage.


Maybe he has a matching pair of Uggs? Only the finest Australian products!


----------



## Alberto7

^ I have a pair of Uggs winter boots. They rock.


----------



## patata

Sarah Longfiled explains the use of pickholders.


----------



## narad

patata said:


> Sarah Longfiled explains the use of pickholders.



I think we all understand how pickholders are used. They're just not useful.


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

Just wanna run through a few things as I now have my Etherial custom in my possession. 

Intonation is great. May need a little adjustment on the low D string and only slightly on the low G, but other than that it is fine.
Yes, the X-bar (neck pick up) is slightly wonky. It's not overly noticeable unless you get right up close, and it doesn't effect the tone so no real biggy for me.
Paint job is awesome. 
The only things I worried about were the scale length and pick up choice as I had no experience with either but I am very happy with both. I'm still getting used to the 28" scale length, bends are a little harder to pull but I'll get used to it. . 


But yeah that's it really, overall a really solid guitar. I plan on making a video soon so I will post it if anyone is interested.


----------



## Mik3D23

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Just wanna run through a few things as I now have my Etherial custom in my possession.
> 
> Intonation is great. May need a little adjustment on the low D string and only slightly on the low G, but other than that it is fine.
> Yes, the X-bar (neck pick up) is slightly wonky. It's not overly noticeable unless you get right up close, and it doesn't effect the tone so no real biggy for me.
> Paint job is awesome.
> The only things I worried about were the scale length and pick up choice as I had no experience with either but I am very happy with both. I'm still getting used to the 28" scale length, bends are a little harder to pull but I'll get used to it. .
> 
> 
> But yeah that's it really, overall a really solid guitar. I plan on making a video soon so I will post it if anyone is interested.



Pics plox?


----------



## patata

Yoshi-JoshWKJD said:


> Just wanna run through a few things as I now have my Etherial custom in my possession.
> 
> Intonation is great. May need a little adjustment on the low D string and only slightly on the low G, but other than that it is fine.
> Yes, the X-bar (neck pick up) is slightly wonky. It's not overly noticeable unless you get right up close, and it doesn't effect the tone so no real biggy for me.
> Paint job is awesome.
> The only things I worried about were the scale length and pick up choice as I had no experience with either but I am very happy with both. I'm still getting used to the 28" scale length, bends are a little harder to pull but I'll get used to it. .
> 
> 
> But yeah that's it really, overall a really solid guitar. I plan on making a video soon so I will post it if anyone is interested.



is it the 8string tele?


----------



## Yoshi-JoshWKJD

patata said:


> is it the 8string tele?



It certainly is.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

A new Etherial was completed today. Awaiting the consensus after pics are posted and the guitar is torn apart.


----------



## mcsalty

Wings of Obsidian said:


> A new Etherial was completed today. Awaiting the consensus after pics are posted and the guitar is torn apart.



You have a serious hate-boner for this company lol


----------



## downburst82

At first glace it look great! Probably my Favorite _looking_ Etherial yet, but (and I think i've said this before) the devil is in the details with Etherial. Nothing jumps out at me right away as off with the guitar though (obviously this is only 1 picture).


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

That actually looks pretty sweet


----------



## capoeiraesp

I hate to say, but that's looking pretty sweet.


----------



## demonx

I like that spine looking gfx around the top

Reminds me of a Custom Chopper that someone was painting the tank and guards of when I did an airbrush course years ago


----------



## jonajon91

More pictures.


----------



## pondman

I like the look of that one.


----------



## Helstormau

Looks pretty cool, I wonder whats wrong with it


----------



## sehnomatic

Guys. Frets. No crown and super low.?

Unless it's just lighting. If it's as good as it looks, I hope he's got his chops back together.


----------



## patata

Etherial GAS is back on..I mean if he puts like 10-20 guitars like that one I'll probably go on with my order.


----------



## Helstormau

sehnomatic said:


> Guys. Frets. No crown and super low.?
> 
> Unless it's just lighting. If it's as good as it looks, I hope he's got his chops back together.



I meant the finish (fancy bloody vinyl wrap under clear coat or whatever the f_u_ck he does) looks pretty cool. Havent really looked over it in über detail (and probably wont either, just cbf)


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

mcsalty said:


> You have a serious hate-boner for this company lol



What did I say that was so bad, kid? Read my statement again. No hate or even slight judgment involved.



Wings of Obsidian said:


> A new Etherial was completed today. Awaiting the consensus after pics are posted and the guitar is torn apart.


----------



## stevexc

Now I may be off in left field, but if I'm not mistaken the nut and bridge should be the furthest extremes when it comes to angles - ie the bridge should be tilted further counterclockwise than anything and the nut clockwise - wouldn't that mean the bridge pickup is tilted too far back on the bass side, or is that a tonal choice?

All in all though that's an improvement judging from those pics. There's things I personally don't like but they're all just matters of taste.


----------



## BlackMastodon

stevexc said:


> Now I may be off in left field, but if I'm not mistaken the nut and bridge should be the furthest extremes when it comes to angles - ie the bridge should be tilted further counterclockwise than anything and the nut clockwise - wouldn't that mean the bridge pickup is tilted too far back on the bass side, or is that a tonal choice?
> 
> All in all though that's an improvement judging from those pics. There's things I personally don't like but they're all just matters of taste.


Tonal thing imo.

At least the bridge pieces are straight (or at least look like it) and the routes aren't drunk. Looks to be probably his cleanest work so far, and if there isn't anything wrong with it then hats off to him and I hope he can keep it up. As for the design, this is one of the more tasteful ones that I don't even mind the look of. Not sure how the fretwork or headstock face are but I couldn't find anything from the pics posted. Although, from a design standpoint I think the cutaway is a bit too far into the body.


----------



## pondman

I really really like this one. And that finger-board


----------



## BlackMastodon

pondman said:


> I really really like this one. And that finger-board


Wait, are there no side dots? Might've been the customer's request but man that would be ridiculous to play, would get lost way too easily.


----------



## Alberto7

I've had my Carvin with a blank fretboard for over 4 years now and, to this day, I still some times struggle to get around it compared to my other guitars with marked fretboards. I can't imagine having no side dots. 

This guitar I dig so far though. Design-wise, that is. If he's still using unstable woods... nope.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, this appears to be a really nice one. I actually really liked his off the wall designs, but this is definitely a clean build based on what we can see.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I'm surprised how nice that guitar looks, though I'm still skeptical about it having problems because... yeah.


----------



## pondman

BlackMastodon said:


> Wait, are there no side dots? Might've been the customer's request but man that would be ridiculous to play, would get lost way too easily.



Just follow the stars grass hopper


----------



## downburst82

If you look closely you can see some sort of side markers, they look like block style but are very faint in the pictures. They probably glow I would imagine?


----------



## Hollowway

You know, there's a lot to be said for that cutout on the lower bout there. I'd love to play in classical position on some of my guitars, and that would definitely help. He's got the body designed in a way that it doesn't look like an after thought.


----------



## downburst82

I was just looking at this picture and did notice it seems the string spacing might be slightly off? Could be picture but it looks like the high e is a little off and maybe the d?






ps: Not trying to do the lets nit pick and bash etherial thing. I really like the look of this guitar and this is pretty much the only thing I have noticed that might be a little off looking at the pictures (and I could be wrong).


----------



## in-pursuit

Wow, that is a pretty sweet looking guitar. Here's hoping whoever commissioned that build gives a thorough and unbiased review. CF as part of a guitar build is something I'm pretty intrigued by.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Fingers crossed he finally puts his stuff together.


----------



## mcsalty

Wings of Obsidian said:


> What did I say that was so bad, kid? Read my statement again. No hate or even slight judgment involved.



Maybe it's the fact that you're so eagerly awaiting for the next Etherial guitar to be (maybe deservingly) "torn apart," but it's more or less about your entire post-history in this thread. Don't take it as a personal attack or anything, especially since it's pretty evident that I'm not the only one to notice/point it out. My first comment was clearly a joke man, loosen up a bit.
Slight derailment aside, this is one of the first Etherial guitars I've legitimately liked, at least aesthetically


----------



## jonajon91

Etherial have finally gotten rid of the gaudy looking website they had for far too long. The new one is actually pretty cool (minus the animation thing on the home page made of about 8 pixles )

Etherial Guitars | ...of Unearthly Artistry


----------



## Necromagnon

He finally understood that taking good pictures is very important for selling stuff. This website looks pretty nice right now. Let's hope the quality of the builds has followed.


----------



## TemjinStrife

Necromagnon said:


> He finally understood that taking good pictures is very important for selling stuff. This website looks pretty nice right now. Let's hope the quality of the builds has followed.



I'm not holding my breath. If the previous examples are anything to go by, he has a LONG way to go.


----------



## Necromagnon

TemjinStrife said:


> I'm not holding my breath. If the previous examples are anything to go by, he has a LONG way to go.


I'm not holding either. in fact, I don't really care. But my side "Istillhavefaithinhumanity" is always nearby and likes to see people learning from mistakes and improving. He's got a long long way to go, for sure, but if he's in the right direction, it's already a begining. Many would have continue toward the wall, and even accelerate.


----------



## HurrDurr

I'm still confused as to how exactly that CoC RMTT sig works. I can't possibly believe that a Kahler trem can double as a headless system.


----------



## RedDog22

Wasn't it mentioned that wrapping the neck in carbon fiber might not be the best idea as it would likely strain the truss rod adjustment? Maybe if the application is thin enough it won't matter?


----------



## thrsher

RedDog22 said:


> Wasn't it mentioned that wrapping the neck in carbon fiber might not be the best idea as it would likely strain the truss rod adjustment? Maybe if the application is thin enough it won't matter?



didnt parker used to carbon wraps? i dont think its an issue


----------



## Necromagnon

RedDog22 said:


> Wasn't it mentioned that wrapping the neck in carbon fiber might not be the best idea as it would likely strain the truss rod adjustment? Maybe if the application is thin enough it won't matter?


If the neck is in the proper shape right before wraping, it will just fix it that way and it shouldn't move with time. So no TR needed (I think that's what parker does, and Vigier do this also if I remember correctly). But that means a lot of preparation before and to be exactly sure of what you're doing.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Necromagnon said:


> If the neck is in the proper shape right before wraping, it will just fix it that way and it shouldn't move with time. So no TR needed (I think that's what parker does, and Vigier do this also if I remember correctly). But that means a lot of preparation before and to be exactly sure of what you're doing.



I don't know much about Vigiers, but Parkers have truss rods.


----------



## Necromagnon

ElysianGuitars said:


> I don't know much about Vigiers, but Parkers have truss rods.


Ok, wasn't sure about that. I think that Vigier doesn't have. I'll go check that out.

PS: yup, no TR on Vigier's necks:
Neck

But it's actually not exactly a carbon wraping.


----------



## TemjinStrife

thrsher said:


> didnt parker used to carbon wraps? i dont think its an issue



Parker also used basswood (soft, light wood) for necks. Plus, from what I heard, Parker actually had a truss cable instead of a truss rod.


----------



## downburst82

I have to say...This looks pretty AWESOME!!








Its for the New Lucas Mann guitar (lets just skip the Lucas comments..some like him, many don't and im indifferent) I don't particularly love the rest of the guitar (don't hate it like some though) but leaving everything else aside THIS IS A COOL FRETBOARD!!


----------



## asher

Yeah. That looks fvcking awesome. Let's hope the rest of the instrument matches.


----------



## DaddleCecapitation

I'd be really keen to get an Etherial with a steel fretboard. The main reason being because I can be assured that it won't bend and snap in half like some previous builds.


----------



## Floppystrings

So how do you access the volume pot and switch?

No string through?


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I have to say, that fretboard had me wide-eyed. Curious about the rest of this build.


----------



## Floppystrings

Slunk Dragon said:


> Curious about the rest of this build.



I am curious about that toggle switch.

How could it be replaced? Is it actually sealed into a cavity?


----------



## downburst82

Floppystrings said:


> I am curious about that toggle switch.
> 
> How could it be replaced? Is it actually sealed into a cavity?



The access to the controls is through the side if I remember correctly, kind of like a Les Paul Supreme.


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

Everything this dude makes looks absolutely horrible, and I can't believe that people give him money.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Floppystrings said:


> So how do you access the volume pot and switch?
> 
> No string through?


It appears that the strings are fed through the saddles (look closely). I have a bass that has a bridge with the same method of stringing. It's very cool and handy because it allows larger string gauges to be used with no problem.



Floppystrings said:


> I am curious about that toggle switch.
> 
> How could it be replaced? Is it actually sealed into a cavity?



I WOULD go with the same answer that downburst82 gave....however, the sides are contoured and NOT flat, so he can't put a little side control cavity there. Can he?



ShawnFjellstad said:


> Everything this dude makes looks absolutely horrible, and I can't believe that people give him money.


Humans are creatures of the eyes, my friend. If they see something that is aesthetically pleasing enough, it'll override common sense and they'll buy it or put "only aesthetics" foremost in their thinking.


----------



## downburst82

Which guitar are we talking about now?

On this one you can clearly see the side access control cover


----------



## OmegaSlayer

The side access is really a stupid thing imho.
Eventually he'll understand it's not a good design coice for the final users.
If something like a pot breaks, repairing it is going to be very anal.


----------



## Churchie777

Will that neck profile really work?


----------



## asher

"Tessellates the human thumb"






If it's just shallow enough you can feel it I could see it being nice for some things as long as it doesn't make the shoulders feel like highway barriers.

The writing and the price make me want to gouge my eyes out though.


----------



## Purelojik

Whatever it does to my thumb, I do not want.


----------



## jonajon91

What does that neck profile mean for truss rods? Of does the aluminium-carbon fiber neck render a truss rod useless?
Would be pretty cool to see one running down each side of the neck, but It's probably just added weight and unnecessary(ness)


----------



## ForThisGift

This guy just doesn't get it, which leads me to believe he is perhaps beyond help. He is going to flawlessly build four instruments with multiple unproven build concepts in seven weeks? Why not focus on putting out ONE solidly constructed and QA'ed traditional guitar in ANY amount of time first? 

All he needs is four lucky consumers so he can CHARGE for his R&D....


----------



## Mik3D23

jonajon91 said:


> What does that neck profile mean for truss rods? Of does the aluminium-carbon fiber neck render a truss rod useless?
> Would be pretty cool to see one running down each side of the neck, but It's probably just added weight and unnecessary(ness)



If it's only aluminum/carbon-fiber, (and *if it's done properly*) it would render a truss rod not necessary. The only drawback would be that there isn't any adjustment to relief on the neck. 


Also, "faster production techniques" throws up all sorts of red flags to me...


----------



## SandyRavage

Although his aesthetics are not my favorite, and some of the finishing needs some work (bit of an understatement) I'm actually fairly excited where these concepts are going to go. It's nice to see someone pushing the envelope with material choices and designs, and although I personally wouldn't play one of these guitars I would be very interested in seeing where he takes it, and if he's able to add the polish and finishing he is gonna need to keep making guitars.


----------



## sehnomatic

5005 aluminum? *really?*

I'm pretty sure I know my aluminums when I say that that stuff is not suitable for a guitar, a thing that has to come into contact with other things. It doesn't machine nicely, it's brittle, and all of those cutouts will either be burr hell or super rounded over. Sure, it's light, but it has to be out of sight, touch it with anything denser, and you've got scratches. A modern instrument finish resists scratches far better than 5005.


----------



## TemjinStrife

WTF does "Detail in Materiality" even ....ing mean?!


----------



## Svenn

This week in the etherial workshop: the thesaurus has just been discovered.


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

I feel like he sits down with a thesaurus when he writes these descriptions. There are a few words in there that don't work at all with how he's using them.


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

TemjinStrife said:


> WTF does "Detail in Materiality" even ....ing mean?!



This. That part really had me going. There isn't a more pretentious way to say, "I picked the materials this will be made out of."


----------



## TemjinStrife

ShawnFjellstad said:


> I feel like he sits down with a thesaurus when he writes these descriptions. There are a few words in there that don't work at all with how he's using them.



It's very "Engrish." I'm expecting to see "Rhythm in Jump" hardware on the next model.


----------



## ForThisGift

TemjinStrife said:


> It's very "Engrish." I'm expecting to see "Rhythm in Jump" hardware on the next model.



Please! DeVries has exclusive the exclusive on all Rhythm In Jump hardware. I think there are still 10 years left on that agreement.


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

New hardware branding: Detail in materiality tessellates the human thumb.


----------



## Renkenstein

Anyone gonna mention the fact that the body design looks an awfully lot like this one:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...zations/264514-lets-try-again-but-better.html

CaptainLuckeyBeard designed it, cancelled the order, and now they're launching a new model? The ass end is different, but those horns are a dead ringer.

Getcher royalties, Cap'n.


----------



## asher

ShawnFjellstad said:


> New hardware branding: Detail in materiality tessellates the human thumb.



Nah.

Djent lyrics.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

1.) Think about that scooped neck profile. I don't know what the hell this guy means by "tessellate", but this shit will will literally trap your thumb down the middle of the neck. Gripping in anything other than a "classic pinch" position will be impossibly slippery and destroy any grip you may have.

"Tessellate" just based on a Google search and Dictionary search: 


> "decorate (a floor) with mosaics"



To the builder/designer guy: you may "tessellate" (or "tickle") my thumb any day, you kinky bastard, you. 

2.)


sehnomatic said:


> 5005 aluminum? *really?*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I know my aluminums when I say that that stuff is not suitable for a guitar, a thing that has to come into contact with other things. It doesn't machine nicely, it's brittle, and all of those cutouts will either be burr hell or super rounded over. Sure, it's light, but it has to out of sight, touch it with anything denser, and you've got scratches. A modern instrument finish resists scratches far better than 5005.


^ This. I've tried building an aluminum longboard before for cruising around, and I had to research into all different kinds of aluminum (and like composites).

3.)


ShawnFjellstad said:


> New hardware branding: Detail in materiality tessellates the human thumb.


#dead 

4.)


asher said:


> Nah.
> 
> Djent lyrics.


Comment of the day award, please.


----------



## asher

Emperor Guillotine said:


> 4.) Comment of the day award, please.



There's a rep button for that


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Ok so...after a little research, I _think_ this guy meant "oscillate the human thumb". Not "tessellate".


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

If you look at about 90% of guitarist when they play, you'll see that they don't keep their thumb in the exact middle of the neck while playing, and especially not while moving further up the board. That neck carve is idiotic. I'd feel trapped. Kill it with fire.


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Ok so...after a little research, I _think_ this guy meant "oscillate the human thumb". Not "tessellate".



If he did, it's not much better, since that doesn't make sense with the way he was using it either.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

ShawnFjellstad said:


> I'd feel trapped. Kill it with fire.


Again mate, my previous post on the last page. #1100


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Again mate, my previous post on the last page. #1100



Oh no! I posted a similar sentiment that someone else on the internet posted! Shame on me for not scrupulously paying attention to every post in the thread, and for having nearly the same opinion!

I'm going to follow every one of your posts and regurgitate everything you say, because I don't give a flying .... if it's been said before.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

ShawnFjellstad said:


> Oh no! I posted a similar sentiment that someone else on the internet posted! Shame on me for not scrupulously paying attention to every post in the thread, and for having nearly the same opinion!
> 
> I'm going to follow every one of your posts and regurgitate everything you say, because I don't give a flying .... if it's been said before.


Dude...relax...I was just kidding and making a joke... 0.o (I can't tell if you're being serious or not.)


----------



## Pikka Bird

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Ok so...after a little research, I _think_ this guy meant "oscillate the human thumb". Not "tessellate".



Naw, he meant "titillate". Erotic stuff.


----------



## XxJoshxX

I dont see what is wrong with just using a normal neck profile?


----------



## AwDeOh

Mik3D23 said:


> Also, "faster production techniques" throws up all sorts of red flags to me...



..red flags of this magnitude:


----------



## Hollowway

Lol, he reminds me of this Damon Wayans character...


----------



## ShawnFjellstad

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Dude...relax...I was just kidding and making a joke... 0.o (I can't tell if you're being serious or not.)



I don't know man. Maybe you should check through every one of my posts to see if you can find any hints of sarcasm. Careful that you don't accidentally post anything similar to something I've said before, though, or I'll immediately point it out to you for some reason or other, post # and all.


----------



## downburst82

To be at least slightly fair to the guy another definition of Tessellate is

"to fit together exactly" or "to fit together in a pattern with no spaces in between"
(but even then its usually in reference to mosaics)


I'm assuming that's what he meant?...still pretty silly...


----------



## Necromagnon

He speaking very good like me english.


Anything this guy says looks suspicious to me: resonance of the body blabla? New awesome neck profile that will blast your thumb out? 7 weeks revolutionary building process?
That foretells freaking epic new pages for this thread.


----------



## Thrashman

Hell, my first overhaul looks better than most of his work still...  That's just bad.

From the looks of it.. Can it really get worse than this?


.. It's gonna get worse, isn't it?


----------



## BlackMastodon




----------



## Erockomania

This thread tessellates my butthole pretty nicely.


----------



## CaptainLuckeyBeard

Renkenstein said:


> Anyone gonna mention the fact that the body design looks an awfully lot like this one:
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...zations/264514-lets-try-again-but-better.html
> 
> CaptainLuckeyBeard designed it, cancelled the order, and now they're launching a new model? The ass end is different, but those horns are a dead ringer.
> 
> Getcher royalties, Cap'n.



I'm glad someone caught that


----------



## jonajon91

Couple of progress pics. Don't know whats going on with the pickups on the top right, looks like one comes out into the upper fret access area.


----------



## ForThisGift

You have to admire his consistency... He is steady churning out poorly executed builds and always delivers on the tackiest designs imaginable. 

Those are the marks of a true professional.


----------



## Churchie777

The fret access is so good on that V you can have the pickup ring digging into your hand...........


----------



## Fred the Shred

It's clearly tessellating your fretting hand as you reach the upper frets.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Beyond the obvious horrible placement, what are those rings for? I mean, there's no height adjusting screws it seems, are they just there to enhance the overall look?


----------



## Alberto7

^ seriously, wtf? And non aligned pickups make me a little stressed, honestly, particularly when they're so close to each other.


----------



## jonajon91

All being said, I like the design on the top left, nothing too over the top. I also think I recognise the bottom middle on (red and black) through PM with someone on this forum, but I don't remember who.


----------



## thrsher

red and black is mine


----------



## Fred the Shred

Again, such fine taste in colours! 

No tessellating features will imply a -10 cool penalty, however.


----------



## TemjinStrife

thrsher said:


> red and black is mine



Good luck dude.


----------



## thrsher

we shall see soon enough, i believe two weeks or so


----------



## Pikka Bird

Vostre Roy said:


> Beyond the obvious horrible placement, what are those rings for? I mean, there's no height adjusting screws it seems, are they just there to enhance the overall look?



It means he effed up the routs, most likely.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Not at all. The objective of the pickup rings is to enthusiastically deploy extensive applications and rapidiously simplify multifunctional solutions while distinctively reinventing out-of-the-box concepts for a unique playing experience.

You can generate your own Etherial ads here: Corporate B.S. Generator

Regrettably, the word tessellating is not included.


----------



## asopala

Reading this whole thread begs the question: What are the alternatives? Who makes carbon fiber guitars with ridiculous graphics who doesn't have a bad history? It seems like he's the only guy who will make complete carbon fiber electrics custom. All others I've seen make only acoustics.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Do you want specifically carbon fiber (as in the whole thing) or carbon fiber appoinments such as an outer shell and such?


----------



## Dcm81

jonajon91 said:


> More pictures.



Don't know if you guys missed it or it's just my eyes going wonky from all these "lovely" guitars but god damn I'd have a hard time keeping that high E on the fretboard while trying to play it!

EDIT: Why the hell are embedded pics from a quote showing up like this?!?


----------



## Neilzord

thrsher said:


> we shall see soon enough, i believe two weeks or so



I look forward to the NGD!, Fingers crossed all turns out good for you and your guitar!! 

It would be good to see one of these go really well for a change!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Fred the Shred said:


> Not at all. The objective of the pickup rings is to enthusiastically deploy extensive applications and rapidiously simplify multifunctional solutions while distinctively reinventing out-of-the-box concepts for a unique playing experience.
> 
> You can generate your own Etherial ads here: Corporate B.S. Generator
> 
> Regrettably, the word tessellating is not included.


From what I've read, I think this wins the thread (or at least the page few pages) for now. 



asopala said:


> Reading this whole thread begs the question: What are the alternatives? Who makes carbon fiber guitars with ridiculous graphics who doesn't have a bad history? It seems like he's the only guy who will make complete carbon fiber electrics custom. All others I've seen make only acoustics.


No one. (Keep in mind that these axes are NOT made 100% from carbon fiber. They have a carbon shell, carbon wrapping on the body or fretboard, etc.

Someone companies can potentially do carbon fiber appointments though. Dariusz from RAN said that it is possible.


----------



## jonajon91

For crazy inlays there is Daimoness and I believe parker have done a few carbon wraps before as well. If you want both then you will probably have to get etherial.


----------



## xwmucradiox

sehnomatic said:


> 5005 aluminum? *really?*
> 
> I'm pretty sure I know my aluminums when I say that that stuff is not suitable for a guitar, a thing that has to come into contact with other things. It doesn't machine nicely, it's brittle, and all of those cutouts will either be burr hell or super rounded over. Sure, it's light, but it has to be out of sight, touch it with anything denser, and you've got scratches. A modern instrument finish resists scratches far better than 5005.



I'm not familiar with 5005, but 6061 is the most common used on metalneck guitars with machined necks. Its what Travis Bean used in the 70s. Recent builders have gone to some stronger and lighter alloys but 6061 has long been the standard.


----------



## asopala

Fred the Shred said:


> Do you want specifically carbon fiber (as in the whole thing) or carbon fiber appoinments such as an outer shell and such?



Both, I guess. I really dig the look of carbon fiber on electrics, and I want something that'll also withstand temperature changes. Living in the Midwest, I experience the four seasons every day.




Emperor Guillotine said:


> No one. (Keep in mind that these axes are NOT made 100% from carbon fiber. They have a carbon shell, carbon wrapping on the body or fretboard, etc.
> 
> Someone companies can potentially do carbon fiber appointments though. Dariusz from RAN said that it is possible.



Ok. Do you have any links to any guitars of this style RAN has done? I haven't seen any from him.



jonajon91 said:


> For crazy inlays there is Daimoness and I believe parker have done a few carbon wraps before as well. If you want both then you will probably have to get etherial.



Good to know. Still, now I see how this guy still gets orders. His general ideas of crazy graphics paired with carbon fiber is genius, regardless of the design we've seen here. Everyone is ogling at the looks, which is the selling point. The execution, not so much, unfortunately.


----------



## jonajon91

asopala said:


> Good to know. Still, now I see how this guy still gets orders. His general ideas of crazy graphics paired with carbon fiber is genius, regardless of the design we've seen here. Everyone is ogling at the looks, which is the selling point. The execution, not so much, unfortunately.



Yup. If I was filthy rich I would totally order at least one of these and then just hang it on my wall.


----------



## TemjinStrife

Unfortunately, the idea of it being a "guitar" should really trump the idea of it being made with crazy materials and bonkers graphics


----------



## asopala

TemjinStrife said:


> Unfortunately, the idea of it being a "guitar" should really trump the idea of it being made with crazy materials and bonkers graphics



And I entirely agree. Still, sucks that he's the only one who would do something with those materials (besides the aforementioned custom shops)


----------



## InfinityCollision

I gather that CF is a pain in the ass to work with. I've known a few folks (luthiers and otherwise) to utilize it for a while but ultimately choose not to work with it later on. It's one thing when you're using it because it's functionally superior to alternatives, quite another when half the perceived benefit is aesthetic.


----------



## Andromalia

The thing is, carbon fiber works like a charm as instrument material, but.... it requires an awful lot of specialised equipment to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzsAa606u0


----------



## pondman

Andromalia said:


> The thing is, carbon fiber works like a charm as instrument material, but.... it requires an awful lot of specialised equipment to do.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzsAa606u0



Excellent.


----------



## lelandbowman3

I've been interested in Etherial's stuff just because of how outlandish and customized it is. I mean, a lot of the production is questionable, but some of the guitars he's produced have been a lot better than what I have now. There's design flaws for sure, but for the short amount of time he's been doing it, it's not terrible. He's using a lot of new techniques and I applaud the effort. I've seen several that if a few things were mod-ed (number of strings, fretboard design, graphic, etc) I'd purchase or commission a new one.
On the other hand, he hasn't "perfected" his craft, so I'm still mega-iffy about it. One of the simpler models with some customization wouldn't turn out horribly, right?


----------



## ormsby guitars

lelandbowman3 said:


> I've been interested in Etherial's stuff just because of how outlandish and customized it is. I mean, a lot of the production is questionable, but some of the guitars he's produced have been a lot better than what I have now. There's design flaws for sure, but for the short amount of time he's been doing it, it's not terrible. He's using a lot of new techniques and I applaud the effort. I've seen several that if a few things were mod-ed (number of strings, fretboard design, graphic, etc) I'd purchase or commission a new one.
> On the other hand, he hasn't "perfected" his craft, so I'm still mega-iffy about it. One of the simpler models with some customization wouldn't turn out horribly, right?



Would you buy a new car that you knew from previous examples, couldn't ever drive straight, clicked with funny noises as it went around right hand bends, had an exhaust that dragged on the ground (for wow factor spark effects!), was fitted with a racing seat that was angled off to the left of centre, and a paint job that was lumpy with what looks like some mechanics pubic hairs embedded in it (with tribal racing stripes!)?


----------



## Purelojik

lelandbowman3 said:


> On the other hand, he hasn't "perfected" his craft, so I'm still mega-iffy about it. One of the simpler models with some customization wouldn't turn out horribly, right?



you'd probably just notice the flaws faster without being baffled by the glitz and stuff. But explain why you'd spend hard earned (unless its from mom and dad) money for something that remotely had a chance of turning out undesirable?

i just dont understand that logic. there are better builders on this forum that are much more consistent.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

How in the world is this still a thing?... Seriously, how is this guy still operating?...

I've been gone for quite a few months, come back to the forum to check in finally, and find this... -.-


----------



## Alberto7

lelandbowman3 said:


> I've been interested in Etherial's stuff just because of how outlandish and customized it is. I mean, a lot of the production is questionable, but some of the guitars he's produced have been a lot better than what I have now. There's design flaws for sure, but for the short amount of time he's been doing it, it's not terrible. He's using a lot of new techniques and I applaud the effort. I've seen several that if a few things were mod-ed (number of strings, fretboard design, graphic, etc) I'd purchase or commission a new one.
> On the other hand, he hasn't "perfected" his craft, so I'm still mega-iffy about it. One of the simpler models with some customization wouldn't turn out horribly, right?



This has been repeated throughout this entire thread, but if he's using new techniques, he should probably try getting them down before using paying customers as guinea pigs. People are, quite literally, paying for his learning curve. Customers ain't parents.

On the same note, if he hasn't perfected his craft, he should probably be practicing his skills before charging big $$$ for them. I mean, sure, even professional luthiers with good reputations get better with time, and their earlier work might not be quite the same quality as their newest, but their skills met a high standard when they first started selling their work.

Like I've said before, don't get me wrong; I appreciate his ideas and his desire to push the envelope, but if he can't execute those ideas properly, then he shouldn't expect to sell them.


----------



## mcsalty

lelandbowman3 said:


> I've been interested in Etherial's stuff just because of how outlandish and customized it is. I mean, a lot of the production is questionable, but some of the guitars he's produced have been a lot better than what I have now. There's design flaws for sure, but for the short amount of time he's been doing it, it's not terrible. He's using a lot of new techniques and I applaud the effort. I've seen several that if a few things were mod-ed (number of strings, fretboard design, graphic, etc) I'd purchase or commission a new one.
> On the other hand, he hasn't "perfected" his craft, so I'm still mega-iffy about it. One of the simpler models with some customization wouldn't turn out horribly, right?



See, this kind of thing is exactly the problem. Being a relatively new builder is no excuse for the flaws and mistakes in his builds, _especially_ not at the price that he's charging. That people are so readily willing to forgive these massive flaws because he's "a new builder" who's "using a lot of new techniques" and continue to give him money for these guitars only worsens the problem. But if you're actually willing to shell out $3000 for "not terrible," it's your money...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The better part of two years later and this shit is still coming down the pike?  

Wasn't Etherial supposed to start getting better like a year ago?


----------



## Hollowway

"A fool and his money are soon parted."


----------



## capoeiraesp

This 'V' takes the cake for recent builds. Just look at the way the neck pickup has been done. The damned pickup ring had to be cut and have the edges ground off in parts to fit! My Emperion had that happen... This clearly shows an inability to plan a build correctly.


----------



## Purelojik

Oh my god that's just....come on! I mean do you think he just looked at it and was like "meh that'll do pig" and then drank a beer or something?


----------



## Necromagnon

capoeiraesp said:


> This 'V' takes the cake for recent builds. Just look at the way the neck pickup has been done. The damned pickup ring had to be cut and have the edges ground off in parts to fit! My Emperion had that happen... This clearly shows an inability to plan a build correctly.


And the pups aren't even wide enough... 

I was just wondering, about the "new technics" he use. What are they? Because if you talk about CF, it's ages old. Other than that, I see no special technics/materials...

...

Oh, I think I get it: he just do everything terribly wrong! But that's unfortunately not new either, as DeVries, Rotter, Empereon and many others before him already patented the idea.


----------



## HurrDurr

He can charge whatever he wants for the work he does. I don't think it's the best work I've seen, *by far*, but I'm not gonna judge his price and in fact I'm not even gonna judge his work because I don't like it regardless of the quality and/or craftsmanship. Bottom line is, voice your opinions openly and inform folks who wish to put forth money on a project from Etherial because it's _*not in any way*_ a top-notch product if I were to judge it on its fit & finish, but if people still choose to put money down for his work we can only assume that to them it is worth it because all issues aside, his work _is_ somewhat unique in terms of what he's willing to _*try*_ _(and I can't stress that enough)_ to do for you. I don't see why everyone has gotten so worked up over this and continued it for nearly two years later.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HurrDurr said:


> I don't see why everyone has gotten so worked up over this and continued it for nearly two years later.



Because folks have the right to know the score. Believe it or not, a lot of people have no idea what makes a great instrument or how one is properly built. If I can stop one poor sap from being suckered in from marketing and hype then every letter I type is worth it. 

That's coming from one of the most cynical guys on here in regards to folks being free to burn their money because they were too lazy to gain some knowledge and do some research before dropped $$$$. 

Read the thread from day one, notice how 90% of those coming to Etherial's defense were hammering out the old "He's new, he'll get better, you'll see!" ad nauseam. Well, it's been almost two years and things aren't really better. They aren't really worse, but how many years of using customers for practice is going to be tolerated before folks tell this guy he needs to try harder if he wants to be a big-boy-builder?


----------



## HurrDurr

I'm not saying you shouldn't continue to steer folks away from working with him. Clearly, we agree his work is definitely _*not*_ to a level of which either of us would consider his instruments *'quality machines'*. All I'm saying is that I feel this thread is complete. Simply put, the knowledge is here, the accounts are here, the examples, the photos, everything is already here and it's already been documented well enough. If people _still_ insist on spending money after reading through a 2-year-old thread proving this gentleman's work is a poor excuse for a paddle/shovel, then I don't honestly believe there's any more that can be done from our end. As is, we've given folks on here all the tools necessary to make a valid, conscious decision and I would love to believe nobody in their right sense would commit _$$$ thousands $$$_ to a build without having done a quick Google search and proper research of said luthier's reputation and prior work.

I never meant in anyway to downplay your efforts to protect the community. Again, I just feel that this thread has served its purpose. We've provided the argument that improvement at the expense of others _(although not illegal at his location nor in the US) _is not how we feel the business luthiery should be given the unfortunate consequences to the good folks who put their hard-earned money in his pocket expecting a quality instrument and it most certainly _*is not*_ a trend we would like the industry to follow and thus wish to see it eliminated starting with Etherial. That, to me simply states a point of view most of us agree with, but it isn't a rule of law and people will likely continue to spend the money even if they've read this as long as it's still worth it to them in some way despite the shoddy work and poor design/planning he has shown to us and what we have managed to dig up and expose on here for all to see.


----------



## Necromagnon

HurrDurr said:


> If people _still_ insist on spending money after reading through a 2-year-old thread proving this gentleman's work is a poor excuse for a paddle/shovel,


I think that's the major problem: people will most probably stop reading the thread after the third/fourth page. Maybe tenth, let's say. But still, as Max said, on the early pages, there were still many people claiming he will get better and whatever, so a completely new guy here, with not so much knowledge on quality and guitars, might think: "ok, those posts are a few years old, they say he will get better, he might should have. Let's give him a try."

I would much prefer that people read completely the thread, but I know for sure that in that position, with gas pushing me off my chair (  ), I wouldn't take the time needed to read everything through those 47 pages...


----------



## Thrashman

Double post.


----------



## Thrashman

This thread isn't complete until either:

A) He's gotten better to the level where his work reflects his prices

or

B) He quits shafting people over by lowering his prices appropriately.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Look, everyone in the past has wanted an Etherial for one reason............aesthetics. And that is it.

You want super aesthetics beyond what a mere human can do? You want a guitar that you can actually play, and play WELL, and not just look at?

Go look at the new "zombie virus" guitar that Dylan at Daemoness is building. HOLY F---KING SHIT, JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, F--K ME! THAT THING IS EPIC!

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/dealers-group-buys/259348-official-daemoness-guitars-thread-37.html


----------



## mphsc

Curious as to how Brandon's guitar is coming...


----------



## Necromagnon

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Look, everyone in the past has wanted an Etherial for one reason............aesthetics. And that is it.
> 
> You want super aesthetics beyond what a mere human can do? You want a guitar that you can actually play, and play WELL, and not just look at?
> 
> Go look at the new "zombie virus" guitar that Dylan at Daemoness is building. HOLY F---KING SHIT, JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, F--K ME! THAT THING IS EPIC!
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/dealers-group-buys/259348-official-daemoness-guitars-thread-37.html


But this is basically a very common superstrat, just with freaking awesome inlay and green paint. Yeah, sure it's fantastically well done, much better than any graphic attempt in here (Thanks captain!). But this is not playing on the same field the guy at Etherial is trying to take over, with non standard body shape and all. 

Off course you'd better spend those hard earned k$ on a Daemoness, but it's still a bit different (1st of all, it's playable).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Thrashman said:


> This thread isn't complete until either:
> 
> A) He's gotten better to the level where his work reflects his prices
> 
> or
> 
> B) He quits shafting people over by lowering his prices appropriately.



That's not even the point. Price means nothing. As a business owner, he has the right to charge whatever the hell he wants. He can add a zero to the end of his pricing and it's not going to mean a damn thing in regards to the quality of work. 

What needs to happen is he needs to:

A) Reduce the complexity of his builds to the point where he's shipping fully functional/not-flawed instruments. 

and/or

B) Only take on builds (including number) that he knows he can get 100% right. 

As I said a year or so ago now, he's trying to sprint in the Olympics before learning how to crawl. He's trying to master about half a dozen unique skills that take nearly a lifetime to master on their own without even getting the basics of building squared away. 

So the issue isn't pricing on his part, it's not like he's giving there or way and he's certainly not grossly overcharging given what features he's trying to offer (and I do mean trying). 

Though, with all these poor schmucks ordering guitars I don't think he'll ever put the time in to improve in the short term. I mean, he'll probably eventually get better based on repetition alone, but nothing is forcing him to really work on it right now.


----------



## jonajon91

Apparently Rob does not even want his new Etherial. Isnt he endorsed or something? Can he even sell it?

Etherial Azwen Custom 7 String Electric Guitar RARE Used by Rob of Exotype | eBay

---edit---

In spite of all the crap with etherial, these metal guitars do look cool as all hell.


----------



## ormsby guitars

They are the ladyboys of the guitar community. 

Pretty from a distance, with an exotic vibe. 

They draw you in with their seductive promises of a good time. 

As anticipation builds before the big union, you'll parade them around to anyone that will care to see. 'Look at what I have!'

Some of us snigger, we know. Some don't see the signs, the little nuances that set these apart as being 'special'. 

That pretty face sucks you in, and clouds your judgement. But its all a facade. It's too late when you find out the truth. When that ladyboy reveals it's hidden details. 

Friends and fans discover the news of your 'hot new thing'. Hell, you can't tell them the truth! Imagine the disgrace! So you lie. "She's awesome!"

But in the end, after a few short months, you realise you aren't the one that's supposed to be getting fcuked. 

Tired of being butt raped in what was supposed to be a loving relationship, you move on. 

Or at least, that's how it seems the story goes...


----------



## asher




----------



## CD1221

If we all stop talking about it, maybe it will just go away.


----------



## ormsby guitars

CD1221 said:


> If we all stop talking about it, maybe it will just go away.



What... the ladyboy's boner?


----------



## jonajon91

But I don't WANT it to go away. It's too much fun!


----------



## Renkenstein




----------



## Prophetable

ormsby guitars said:


> They are the ladyboys of the guitar community.
> 
> Pretty from a distance, with an exotic vibe.
> 
> They draw you in with their seductive promises of a good time.
> 
> As anticipation builds before the big union, you'll parade them around to anyone that will care to see. 'Look at what I have!'
> 
> Some of us snigger, we know. Some don't see the signs, the little nuances that set these apart as being 'special'.
> 
> That pretty face sucks you in, and clouds your judgement. But its all a facade. It's too late when you find out the truth. When that ladyboy reveals it's hidden details.
> 
> Friends and fans discover the news of your 'hot new thing'. Hell, you can't tell them the truth! Imagine the disgrace! So you lie. "She's awesome!"
> 
> But in the end, after a few short months, you realise you aren't the one that's supposed to be getting fcuked.
> 
> Tired of being butt raped in what was supposed to be a loving relationship, you move on.
> 
> Or at least, that's how it seems the story goes...



I've never wanted to buy a guitar from you as much as I do at this precise moment.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

jonajon91 said:


> Apparently Rob does not even want his new Etherial. Isnt he endorsed or something? Can he even sell it?
> 
> Etherial Azwen Custom 7 String Electric Guitar RARE Used by Rob of Exotype | eBay
> 
> ---edit---
> 
> In spite of all the crap with etherial, these metal guitars do look cool as all hell.


Rob just got endorsed by ESP/LTD. So why keep a guitar that he can't play?

Matt of Exotype is endorsed by Carvin now. Not sure if he'll be selling his Etherial or not.

Word has reached me that Sarah Longfield might sell her Etherial finally.

And every other Etherial has pretty much fallen apart in the owner's hands from what I can tell. (The guy who had the wood and gold 9-string came out with his problems. The guy with the swirled 10 came out with his problems. John Kiernan came out with his problems. And every of the more "current" guitars have had numerous issues addressed on Facebook.) Safe to say they all are falling apart.



CD1221 said:


> If we all stop talking about it, maybe it will just go away.


I agree with this. But seeing this one-man company made as a public example would be yet another excellent warning for the buying public.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Would like to see/gear more about those ones you've just presented, Emperor.


----------



## Eliguy666

ormsby guitars said:


> They are the ladyboys of the guitar community.



Every trans woman I've met has been really cool to me, I wouldn't make the same assumption of these guitars. It's really startling to see the rest of the paragraph, honestly, but I know that the transgendered aren't well respected, owing mostly to horrendous media representation. 

Anyways, I wouldn't trust the work coming from Etherial just because, even if I owned one that was perceptibly flawless, I would be unable to enjoy it for fear that the guitar was still somehow unsound.


----------



## BlackMastodon

jonajon91 said:


> In spite of all the crap with etherial, these metal guitars do look cool as all hell.


I'm gonna reluctantly agree here. I actually really liked the look of that guitar (never thought I'd say that about an Etherial ). If it were executed properly and still had the same kind of aesthetic I'd rock the hell out of a guitar like that.


----------



## The Hiryuu

Eliguy666 said:


> Every trans woman I've met has been really cool to me, I wouldn't make the same assumption of these guitars. It's really startling to see the rest of the paragraph, honestly, but I know that the transgendered aren't well respected, owing mostly to horrendous media representation.



Yeah, that kind of surprised and disappointed me a bit, too.


----------



## theo

Wouldn't take that too heavily to heart, I think it was more along the lines of:

Looks great from a distance but up close is probably not what you're after at all.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Oh boy....

Way to take an analogy and turn it around. If you can't see that, then maybe you guys (and girls?) need to chill out a bit. Not everything is political, or needs to be politically correct. It's simply an analogy of a guy, thinking he is getting one thing, and getting something very different. 

Next time i'll use a "fake ferrari kit car, advertised as the real deal with blurry photos" story.


----------



## Prophetable

I'm sure this is going to bite me on the ass but...:

It's a joke, not a dick. No need to take it so hard.


----------



## Eliguy666

ormsby guitars said:


> Way to take an analogy and turn it around. If you can't see that, then maybe you guys (and girls?) need to chill out a bit. Not everything is political, or needs to be politically correct. It's simply an analogy of a guy, thinking he is getting one thing, and getting something very different.



Yeah, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid if it didn't go as far as it did. It's an easy mistake to make, but I try to avoid talking like that because there are a lot of people easily hurt by jokes like that (a trans girl mentioned them in her suicide note only a week back stateside, which is probably a big part about why I'm so touchy on it right now).
Kinda like how I made suicide jokes a few years back and thought they were funny until I made one to a friend that lost their mother to it.


----------



## jonajon91

I don't know much about interlectual property, but I wonder if he will give credit to watsisface on here about those curved frets.

---edit---

I also don;t know much about the physics of these things, but should the curve straighten out around the twelfth fret and curve the over way by the time it gets to the bridge?


----------



## Andromalia

The spacing sure looks uneven anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter, that guitar will never be in tune.


----------



## DaddleCecapitation

The "straight fret" is at the bridge. The curve at the nut must be really intense.


----------



## ormsby guitars

Actually, once again, this is 'change where it's not useful'

It's not the Oni system, which has merit and increases scale lengths exponentially. 

This is simply a regular fan, with the bass side progressively moved further down the neck. Which of course, requires a curved bridge, which he's done. 

There is no advantage at all, but one major disadvantage: the curved frets are ALL going the opposite way to the way you finger curves naturally. 

So. Fail. 

I'm assuming the client probably suggested this? Sometimes, as a builder, you have to just say 'no' to ideas...


----------



## Necromagnon

ormsby guitars said:


> Sometimes, as a builder, you have to just say 'no' to ideas...


I agree 200% on this. And this guy has proven multiples times he can't.


----------



## Malkav

I think FGN guitars do frets that are a lot more like those than say Oni's but the FGN ones are almost imperceptibly curved whereas these look far too exaggerated.


----------



## Neilzord

"All the comfort of a fanned fret, Changed to give Thumb Tessellations" - The Cool Term for Tendinitis.


----------



## The Hiryuu

ormsby guitars said:


> Oh boy....
> 
> Way to take an analogy and turn it around. If you can't see that, then maybe you guys (and girls?) need to chill out a bit. Not everything is political, or needs to be politically correct. It's simply an analogy of a guy, thinking he is getting one thing, and getting something very different.
> 
> Next time i'll use a "fake ferrari kit car, advertised as the real deal with blurry photos" story.



Nah, I got your point and that's why I didn't make a bigger deal about it. It's not a ViK situation or anything.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

This is a huge example of trying to "run before you can walk". This guy hasn't even proven that he can make a decent traditional guitar but he tries to make these exotic customs anyway. 

He goes for carbon fiber wrapped crazy finish curvy frets and he cant even cut a clean pickup route on it.


----------



## ormsby guitars

TheRileyOBrien said:


> This is a huge example of trying to "run before you can walk". This guy hasn't even proven that he can make a decent traditional guitar but he tries to make these exotic customs anyway.
> 
> He goes for carbon fiber wrapped crazy finish curvy frets and he cant even cut a clean pickup route on it.



Or find a pickup that is long enough for both bobbins to reach across all strings 

:/

But it's a signature model. The owner will be stoked...


----------



## jonajon91

Not to defend this, but Mr Etharial has been building guitars for a long time and did start with more traditional wooden ones. I think you can see some in old facebook pictures. He seems to have rebooted his company in the last few years ago. It's a pity he is so secretive with most guitars getting one or no pictures taken and uploaded. I would love to sit and nitpick over these.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

jonajon91 said:


> Not to defend this, but Mr Etharial has been building guitars for a long time and did start with more traditional wooden ones. I think you can see some in old facebook pictures. He seems to have rebooted his company in the last few years ago. It's a pity he is so secretive with most guitars getting one or no pictures taken and uploaded. I would love to sit and nitpick over these.



Sooo...I checked out his facebook.


----------



## asher

Since I'm a fret noob: what is wrong with that picture?


----------



## geoffstgermaine

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.


 
That looks like far too much fret having to be filed down for fret levelling. I would not accept this amount of fret being filed off on any of the guitars I build and this indicates that the fretboard itself is poorly levelled. Based on what I've read I really don't understand what this guy is doing. There is such a thing as quality craftsmanship where this just looks like an exercise in cutting corners and covering it in a fancy looking facade.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

I'm a fret noob too, but those frets don't seem levelled, just worn out.


----------



## KnightroExpress

Those have been leveled into oblivion. You definitely shouldn't have to take nearly that much off the top.


----------



## InfinityCollision

jonajon91 said:


>



As cool as it is to see more builders attempting nonlinear multiscale designs (escale is technically a series /pedant), this is a perfect example of how NOT to do it. Bass side curvature is minimized in the upper regions of the fretboard, where reduced curvature is least beneficial. Treble curvature is lowest near the nut. The result is completely unintuitive under the hands and inhibits playability rather than optimizing it.

Ugh. Dan put who knows how many hours into his escale designs. I've easily sunk dozens of hours into optimizing a variant for my own needs... This looks like it was slapped together in a couple of hours tops with zero thought or testing during the process.



Malkav said:


> I think FGN guitars do frets that are a lot more like those than say Oni's but the FGN ones are almost imperceptibly curved whereas these look far too exaggerated.


FGN pushes the middle of the fret forward and pulls the outer ends back to accommodate the fact that strings don't run perfectly perpendicular to the frets. Completely different goals - FGN's design is more about (miniscule) improvements to intonation than anything regarding playability and is pretty transparent under the hand relative to normal single-scale frets.


----------



## canuck brian

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.



At no point should your fretwork require you to take the frets down this far. If this is what you have to do, you're doing it wrong. 

He's going to have a lot of fine metal dust in the pores of the fretboard and a simple slip with that particular file (which is really nice btw - i have one) will nick the fretboard. Tape that off!

They're definitely not worn frets either. You can see where he's marked off the frets in green marker.


----------



## asher

That's all about what I was guessing, but...


BUT DAT UBER LOW ACTION DOE??!!?!


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

asher said:


> That's all about what I was guessing, but...
> 
> 
> BUT DAT UBER LOW ACTION DOE??!!?!



I know you are joking. But just to clarify for anyone who may not understand. Low action refers to string height from frets...not to the board. 

Maybe the customer requested multiple fret heights for um, ergonomics?

I am usually not the type of person to pile on but this is simply absurd. The fact that he is ok with this poor craftsmanship and that people actually pay him(I think) completely blows my mind.


----------



## sehnomatic

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.



Cool! He's using bar fretwire... oh wait.


----------



## thrsher




----------



## AnP Hardcore

Damn that's ugly


----------



## jonajon91

Thrsher is that your guitar?


----------



## thrsher

No


----------



## asher

God those frets make my brain hurt.


----------



## Renkenstein

LAWD ALMIGHTY!!! What did those frets ever do to that guy?!?! He's gone and chopped off their heads. 

I did 3 level and recrown jobs this weekend with nothing more than a long sanding block and a triangle file with the corners ground down, and they turned out great. This guy's got the Cadillac of diamond crowning files and has no fkn clue what he's doing. 

MAKE IT STAHP!!!


----------



## Dust_to_Dust

What the ....


----------



## BlackMastodon

thrsher said:


>








What the flying f**k was he thinking with those frets?


----------



## thrsher

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.



Where did this pic come from

Edit, found, pic is from Jan 2012


----------



## JuliusJahn

Looks like he's been doing it for atleast 2 years now...


----------



## Eliguy666

I imagine that that's what a juggalo's bumhole looks like, really.


----------



## Danukenator

That's an incredible exercise in tackiness. I also fail to see the point of pinching the Oni e-scale idea. This is just a variation of fanned frets that looks like it would hurt one's wrist.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

thrsher said:


>


Frets 13-14 and 19 upwards made me cringe. Owwww...my brain hurts. And looking at that piss-poor pickup route made it hurt even worse.

What in the name of all things is this abomination......... 

I can't even.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Take some Sharpie or acrylic paint to this abomination and it would fit in with all the other Etherials.


----------



## Zalbu

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Take some Sharpie or acrylic paint to this abomination and it would fit in with all the other Etherials.


Jesus christ, that last string have to be bigger than the fretboard on 6 string guitars. Where do you even find strings as big as that?


----------



## asher

Maybe he hacked apart a piano?


----------



## ormsby guitars

Zalbu said:


> Jesus christ, that last string have to be bigger than the fretboard on 6 string guitars. Where do you even find strings as big as that?



A suspension bridge.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Found your strings, Zalbu. I went to a local construction company and asked for one of their suppliers. (Sadly, the local home improvement store, Home Depot, didn't have anything this heavy duty.)


----------



## Eliguy666

I have always kind of wanted to make a cheap drone-string instrument with one of those giant .254 strings and a 100"+ scale length, but I'm not certain where Kalium's "We wind to your specifications" attitude ends


----------



## Hollowway

thrsher said:


>



I don't understand the idea behind these frets. They appear to have the same curvature along the FB, so he's just fanning curved frets, right? Dan's e-scale (Oni, that is), curves away from the perpendicular fret so that you gain more scale length. But in this case it looks like he just wanted curved frets? I can't figure out what the reason would be. Other than just looks.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Well, we recently passed the 2 year anniversary of this thread. I think we can safely say Etherial isn't improving, but he sure as hell is still experimenting on the customers' dime.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

thrsher said:


>



Does anyone know if these curved frets will affect intonation?


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Nour Ayasso said:


> Does anyone know if these curved frets will affect intonation?


What intonation?


----------



## ormsby guitars

New advertising campaign...

Etherialol: Innovation, not Intonation.


----------



## KnightroExpress

You know, the fact that 'Ethereal' is misspelled has bothered me almost as much as the guitars.


----------



## Prophetable

KnightroExpress said:


> You know, the fact that 'Ethereal' is misspelled has bothered me almost as much as the guitars.



They left the "real" out to match the realities of the luthier's skills. That is, nonexistent.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

KnightroExpress said:


> You know, the fact that 'Ethereal' is misspelled has bothered me almost as much as the guitars.


I second this. But considering the guy's piss-poor grammar and spelling to match, it hasn't bugged me as much. I've just accepted the fact that he is..........a completely, blissfully oblivious idiot.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Emperor Guillotine said:


> What intonation?


Probably the best answer  
I asked because it looks _off_ Like I know curved frets can be done accurately (Oni) but the low end on that guitar looks like it get's worse towards the upper frets. At first I thought it was because the frets weren't mirrored but now I don't know...I mean the 27th fret doesn't even look playable. 


KnightroExpress said:


> You know, the fact that 'Ethereal' is misspelled has bothered me almost as much as the guitars.


Oh boy...


----------



## Neilzord

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.



If you look to the top right you can clearly see his right hand's thumb has turned into wood and grown a blade.


----------



## MJS

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Sooo...I checked out his facebook.



That' doesn't look too bad... assuming he did it freehand with an angle grinder.


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

Looks like he installed XJ frets and ground em down to Mandolin height


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Well, just a reminder that this shit abomination exists.

The "Ann Rosso" for one of the members of some band called Dark Helm.


----------



## GunpointMetal

I actually got to see one these up close recently.....it looked like some kids woodshop project. From 20' away I was like "WHOA, what is that?!?" from 10' away I was like "EWWW, WHAT IS THAT?!?"


----------



## xwmucradiox

Hollowway said:


> I don't understand the idea behind these frets. They appear to have the same curvature along the FB, so he's just fanning curved frets, right? Dan's e-scale (Oni, that is), curves away from the perpendicular fret so that you gain more scale length. But in this case it looks like he just wanted curved frets? I can't figure out what the reason would be. Other than just looks.



I think he saw an Oni e-scale headstock and didn't understand the concept completely.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

xwmucradiox said:


> I think he saw an Oni e-scale headstock and didn't understand the concept completely.



I showed Dan this when it first popped up and he couldn't believe how much Etherial missed the boat on this


----------



## Eliguy666

Well, I guess he'll have no issue selling to the Yakuza.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

I just think...customer service?


----------



## SilentCartographer

ew..buzz your girlfriend.. woof


----------



## 7JxN7

I'm not usually someone that suffered from any sort of OCD, but everytime I see a pic of that curved fan fret thing, it makes me shudder a little.

I actually asked the guy who owns it about how it intonates, and his reply was "buddy as long as the bridge is properly set up, and the fret spacing is calculated meticulously (which is the case here), it can intonate."

.......hahahahaha

The fret intervals higher up the fretboard on the lower strings, and also the the area around the middle of the fretboard for the more central strings just look like they would play so out of tune


----------



## asher

7JxN7 said:


> The fret intervals higher up the fretboard on the lower strings, and also the the area around the middle of the fretboard for the more central strings just look like they would play so out of tune



Built in microtonal scale dude. It's a feature, not a bug.

Goes with the thumb tessellation.


----------



## 7JxN7

asher said:


> Built in microtonal scale dude. It's a feature, not a bug.
> 
> Goes with the thumb tessellation.



Im more looking at the orientation between the bridge and nut, and where those points on certain frets correspond across a few strings. It does not in anyway look like the ratio between frets is being followed. Microtonal or not, I doubt some of those frets would be in tune with what they are suppose to be, But I'm just taking this from the few pics I have seen


----------



## ormsby guitars

The guy never even intimated a guitar until late last year when I called him out on that in this thread. So, as he's obviously watching: 'put function over form. Learn to build before you try to innovate. Stop wasting people's money. Learn when to tell a client he has no clue, rather than just build it'

Oh. And get Brandon's guitar done. Three rebuilds because the bodies keep warping means you have no clue about how to select timbers.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

7JxN7 said:


> Im more looking at the orientation between the bridge and nut, and where those points on certain frets correspond across a few strings. It does not in anyway look like the ratio between frets is being followed. Microtonal or not, I doubt some of those frets would be in tune with what they are suppose to be, But I'm just taking this from the few pics I have seen


Asher was cracking a joke, dude...


----------



## Slunk Dragon

Good lord those frets are awful! xD


----------



## 7JxN7

@ Emperor Guillotine, yeah I got that man hahaha.

I was more venting my frustration at the reply I got from the dude that owns the guitar. However poorly communicated my response was, I now see.


----------



## Tommy Deaks

From the Etherial signature artist's FB page:


"Mohanish Deshmukh Gene Cole: All I can say is this; Matthew knows how to make quality guitars.

The sound and playability on this one get full marks from me. Yes, it is different from anything I have played before... And takes a few days to become completely natural to you, but once you get over that hump, the positives of this beaut's design start kicking in. 

I really like the feel of the neck, but i guess its because Matthew and I sat and designed this baby down to every minor detail (every little inch has been thought out and is by my preference in guitaring feel... unless where Matthew had better ideas).

Sir if you can wait for some time... I will have a few clips and the works for your aural pleasure."

Stockholm syndrome? Good lord.


----------



## Demiurge

^Perhaps, or some form of confirmation bias. Maybe that's why so many people get scammed with customs: the idea of _your_ guitar built to _your_ specs just for _you_ creates a kind of hubris (as a collaborator, not a customer) that perhaps delays or clouds one's ability to realize that something isn't right in time. Good builders make it a positive part of the experience, and on the other side, well... best case scenario is that you have a Klingon-wang guitar.


----------



## guidothepimmp

Tommy Deaks said:


> From the Etherial signature artist's FB page:
> 
> 
> "Mohanish Deshmukh Gene Cole: All I can say is this; Matthew knows how to make quality guitars.
> 
> The sound and playability on this one get full marks from me. Yes, it is different from anything I have played before... And takes a few days to become completely natural to you, but once you get over that hump, the positives of this beaut's design start kicking in.
> 
> I really like the feel of the neck, but i guess its because Matthew and I sat and designed this baby down to every minor detail (every little inch has been thought out and is by my preference in guitaring feel... unless where Matthew had better ideas).
> 
> Sir if you can wait for some time... I will have a few clips and the works for your aural pleasure."
> 
> Stockholm syndrome? Good lord.



Edit.. deleted


----------



## Alberto7

^ Kind of unnecessary.


----------



## guidothepimmp

Alberto7 said:


> ^ Kind of unnecessary.



I edited.. thought that was a band name
Apologies if ioffended. Not the intention


----------



## Alberto7

Woops, honest mistake there man. No need to fret.  (pun intended)


----------



## Wizardtac

DISCLAIMER: I READ ALL 63 PAGES BEFORE POSTING.
Sincerely hope y'all rise from the crypts of internet hell for another conversation.....
Wow here goes....
I saw Etherial Guitars and I wanted one.
Just dove right into the custom process. I had Matt draw up a 6 string bass with a kahler tremolo and a fanned fret system that is micro in nature instead of around and inch and a half about a quarter inch in scale length change. It's based off of NOYANs 9 string. I have been waiting for 19months.... I wanted to know those with builds how long did you wait???? Matt is telling me now a month from completion. Let's all sit down and have a visit aye? I'd be honored to accept your scrutiny and ridicule as I await it's arrival and prepare for a nightmare hoping for what I paid for...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Wizardtac said:


> DISCLAIMER: I READ ALL 63 PAGES BEFORE POSTING.
> Sincerely hope y'all rise from the crypts of internet hell for another conversation.....
> Wow here goes....
> I saw Etherial Guitars and I wanted one.
> Just dove right into the custom process. I had Matt draw up a 6 string bass with a kahler tremolo and a fanned fret system that is micro in nature instead of around and inch and a half about a quarter inch in scale length change. It's based off of NOYANs 9 string. I have been waiting for 19months.... I wanted to know those with builds how long did you wait???? Matt is telling me now a month from completion. Let's all sit down and have a visit aye? I'd be honored to accept your scrutiny and ridicule as I await it's arrival and prepare for a nightmare hoping for what I paid for...


a fanned fret 6 string bass with a trem, can't say I've ever seen something like that.  Let us know if you got a shitplank or not when you get it. The optimist in me believes that even etherial can eventually make a good playable guitar, though the pessimist in me thinks you'll probably get a nice shiny/pointy shitplank.


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## bostjan

Looks super cool! I really hope this works out for you...

19 months is really not very long for something at the level this is supposed to be. Most full custom guitars with options like this take 1.5 - 2 years in general. How long did he say it would take? Most luthiers tend to quote you the time it'll take if the minimum number of things go wrong with the project, and then it takes 2-3 times as long because they end up really worrying about little details, so it can be a good sign sometimes, although with Etherial in general, I really don't know if that concept applies.

Matt's had some time and experience now, so maybe he's able to deliver.


----------



## Wizardtac

I absolutely agree with everything you've said here, and I am optimistic for sure. I was told 8-12 months on the wait time. I did ask for a thing or two to change throughout the build but nothing that ever constituted a rebuild or anything. I know that what he wants to do is put out quality work. Whether he has in the past or not (there's 63 pages of scrutiny) But I paid it up and my bass should be at the helm of his work after all the backlash. Where talking years have gone by I will be fully open about my experience as it develops here. Non Bias on how the instrument plays with videos and pictures. For science........
I feel like I owe it to this thread after reading Etherial Guitars Volume: One here in the forum.


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Thrashman

Can't believe people still give this guy their money


----------



## jonajon91

Same, but if he has used this time to clean his game up then props to him. I'd love nothing more than to see these beautiful designs built well, but I've been a part of this thread long enough to not trust this guy with my money.


----------



## Wizardtac

See I gave him money almost two years ago and had no idea at the time so what do you do?


----------



## Wizardtac

I went to a show and was able to talk to everyone from Rings except Lucas and I wish he would of taken 5 minutes to warn me He was playing his custom that night and I was excited to see it. Had just started my build


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I love the designs, and have wanted one for a long time, but I’m too scared to order one.
I love Noyan’s, and I love yours, Wizardtac, but I wish the lines on the colored parts were cleaner. I’m not sure how he did those parts, but I’d bet a CNC could make some killer patterns with super clean cuts. I’m not sure how he does these, though. Maybe a dremel?


----------



## jonajon91

Noyans 9 string build was what got me to sign up on this forum.


----------



## bostjan

I'm also concerned about how those are done. Does the resin go over the inlay? What material is used for the inlay?


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## bostjan

Any context to go with these pictures? Is this just after sanding, but before dust was removed (why is nothing masked)? I wasn't expecting the control cavity to go up that far. It strikes me as odd that he'd go through the trouble of doing the additional inlay work across this area, just to route it all out.


----------



## odibrom

What inlays? the blue lines/drawings? These loo like paint over carbon fiber to me, but I may be wrong on this...


----------



## Wizardtac

bostjan said:


> Any context to go with these pictures? Is this just after sanding, but before dust was removed (why is nothing masked)? I wasn't expecting the control cavity to go up that far. It strikes me as odd that he'd go through the trouble of doing the additional inlay work across this area, just to route it all out.


 
Basically he's done the routing, He's about to do the Polish and curing. The pickups where all inlayed and it got cut out. Which is confusing


----------



## Wizardtac

odibrom said:


> What inlays? the blue lines/drawings? These loo like paint over carbon fiber to me, but I may be wrong on this...


Basically he carves out the inlays and fills it with the resin. Stuff and then cuts the excess off to shape kind of like a wax stamp


----------



## bostjan

Curing? The resin? I'm by no means saying he's doing anything wrong, but the order of doing things seems contrary to anything I've done with epoxy at work. Sometimes there's more than one way to Rome.


----------



## odibrom

@Wizardtac thanks for clarifying...


----------



## Wizardtac

bostjan said:


> Curing? The resin? I'm by no means saying he's doing anything wrong, but the order of doing things seems contrary to anything I've done with epoxy at work. Sometimes there's more than one way to Rome.


The resin is all set, curing the actual finish that seals everything in! I believe


----------



## bostjan

Hmm, ok, I think I understand now. So he must have really roughed up that resin for a good adherence with the clear coat. The thing that threw me off was the fact that the fretboard in the photos also looks really powdery, and doesn't appear to be masked off at all.


----------



## Wizardtac

He cuts it all out by hand and fills it using some type of micro dremel. If I had known it would take such a long time I would have only asked for fretboard markers and my signature on the back. This has been the major leg of the build.


----------



## Wizardtac

I'll post some more random pics I got throughout the process


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## odibrom

Wizardtac said:


>



What material is this? Looks like some sort of hard foam like "roofmate"... Is this what the body is made of? like a surf board?


----------



## Wizardtac

odibrom said:


> What material is this? Looks like some sort of hard foam like "roofmate"... Is this what the body is made of? like a surf board?


 It's a type of polyurethane for the body core and the neck is Tasmanian oak on the inside


----------



## Alberto7

^ Yeah, that looks like blue XPS (Extruded Polystyrene). Stuff is super light. It's one of the many things that can be used inside of walls in buildings for insulation. Stuff is really light, and is pretty tough for its weight. I used it for a project. We built a quadcopter, and we made the main body of the frame out of that stuff, with a skeleton made out of clear acrylic to support the motors and rotors, and to give it more rigidity. Honestly, I think the XPS would have been enough for rigidity. Only bad thing is that it dings easily, and even light heat will melt it instantly. I suppose the carbon fibre + resin shell should provide enough resistance.


----------



## Wizardtac

Alberto7 said:


> ^ Yeah, that looks like blue XPS (Extruded Polystyrene). Stuff is super light. It's one of the many things that can be used inside of walls in buildings for insulation. Stuff is really light, and is pretty tough for its weight. I used it for a project. We built a quadcopter, and we made the main body of the frame out of that stuff, with a skeleton made out of clear acrylic to support the motors and rotors, and to give it more rigidity. Honestly, I think the XPS would have been enough for rigidity. Only bad thing is that it dings easily, and even light heat will melt it instantly. I suppose the carbon fibre + resin shell should provide enough resistance.


----------



## Wizardtac

I believe that's the whole point indeed! Strong
Lightweight
Maliable 
Then densely layered carbon fiber on top for reinforcement.
Still going to weigh in at around 10lbs


----------



## odibrom

...and what about resonance qualities, how does it behaves? I mean, it's a "surfboard guitar"... sustain and that stuff that is not pickup dependent?

These are hones questions, I'm all forward into experimentation and breaking the rules...


----------



## theo

Very interested in seeing how this pans out. Good luck dude!


----------



## downburst82

odibrom said:


> ...and what about resonance qualities, how does it behaves? I mean, it's a "surfboard guitar"... sustain and that stuff that is not pickup dependent?
> 
> These are hones questions, I'm all forward into experimentation and breaking the rules...



Well with Parker guitars it was shown construction similar to this can yield great sounding guitars....but Ken Parker put ALOT of work and research into his construction designs to make that happen. He is also the guy that can now command $30,000+ for his custom made Archtop guitars (basically im saying he is a guitar building genius).

I have thought for quite awhile Etherial has potential and he has an impressive skill set but until he gets to the point he is puting out consistently well constructed, playable, STABLE instruments he is just learning/practicing on the client's dime (and time).


----------



## Wizardtac

odibrom said:


> ...and what about resonance qualities, how does it behaves? I mean, it's a "surfboard guitar"... sustain and that stuff that is not pickup dependent?
> 
> These are hones questions, I'm all forward into experimentation and breaking the rules...



Honestly I have no idea but he has about two weeks to get this bass to me and I will post my own pictures links to videos etc good or bad and we can talk allllllllll about it.

Due note: I am a super picky bass player. Everytime I meet a new bass player or friends I basically just start setting up "correcting" their gear for them. In the end pride or what have you everyone's always happy after I set up their gear. So it will be under $3500 and 19months worth of scrutiny here.


----------



## Wizardtac

Due to the fact that I am heavily concerned and so are you folks, I'm starting a build with Prometeus Guitars in January.


----------



## bostjan

Hi.

My name is bostjan and I play what I believe may be the world's lightest solid body guitar. (NGD: http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-bostjans-custom-oni-8-56k-dead-milkmen.54111/) I absolutely love this guitar.

I challenge any person who claims high mass = high sustain to study some physics and re-evaluate that notion.

As for XPS as a guitar material, I would not fret (heh), Steve Vai himself:





commissioned a guitar made of polymer foam with carbon fibre exoskeleton.

So here's the surface level argument:

When you pluck a string, you add mechanical energy to it, which dissipates as sound. The louder the sound, the more vibrational energy dissipates. When your guitar is lightweight, there is less material to vibrate, therefore a lower rate of vibrational dissipation, thus, the acoustic sound of the guitar is quieter, and the length of time of vibration is greater. Same energy in + Less energy out = longer time of energy coming out.

Where this will break down is when the material rattles or buzzes, which would be a negative. Fortunately, carbon fiber is pretty much like hardwood. Resin is typically more sound-reflective, but XPS is a sound dampener, which will dissipate some mechanical vibration through friction, but it does so mostly at higher frequencies, so the idea is that it balances the bright sound typically associated with harder composites.


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Wizardtac

Should be assembled Tuesday or Wednesday!


----------



## Randy

Holy flat neck profile!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Randy said:


> Holy flat neck profile!


it tesselates the thumb


----------



## bostjan

Is he done with the finish? Not trying to nitpick, but the upper left of the headstock looks like it really needs to be sanded and recoated. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.


----------



## Randy

The taping and the hook lead me to believe this is fresh from spraying, so I'm assuming that's from a run and it'll come out in finish sanding?


----------



## SDMFVan

He oversprayed on that upper horn.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive

bostjan said:


> Hi.
> 
> When your guitar is lightweight, there is less material to vibrate, therefore a lower rate of vibrational dissipation, thus, the acoustic sound of the guitar is quieter



This doesn't make sense to me. Lower overall mass of the guitar means less inertia, which means the strings can more easily move the body and transfer energy to the air, giving you more acoustic sound and less sustain (because you're transferring more energy from the strings).

BUT - I think a more rigid guitar (like one with a carbon fiber exoskeleton) will sustain better. I don't have a good physics explanation why, but it has something to do with deformation.


----------



## lewis

The carbon looks sick.

I think the thing Im noticing is, the ideas are sick but execution does not match the ideas?.
Seems from these pictures that there is some sloppy masking issues and over spraying?.

The top left tuner hole has some finish issues with like a grainy texture running around it?.
There is a mask line visible on the first little cut out on the top of the headstock and Im also seeing that horn spray problem mentioned above /\

the neck profile looks awesome for me personally. I dig flat necks way more than fat C shapes.


----------



## pondman

Looks great so far, I hope this one turns out OK.
I'd hate to work with all those materials , it must be a nightmare.


----------



## Nemesis Vnholy

I’ve been following this forum for quite some time. Wizardtac, I hope your build turns out great. My fingers are crossed on your behalf.


----------



## Wizardtac

Nemesis Vnholy said:


> I’ve been following this forum for quite some time. Wizardtac, I hope your build turns out great. My fingers are crossed on your behalf.


 
Thank you my new friend!


----------



## Wizardtac

bostjan said:


> Is he done with the finish? Not trying to nitpick, but the upper left of the headstock looks like it really needs to be sanded and recoated. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.


 So actually he is leveling the frets, sanding, polishing, assemble tomorrow, and ship next week!


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> The carbon looks sick.
> 
> I think the thing Im noticing is, the ideas are sick but execution does not match the ideas?.
> Seems from these pictures that there is some sloppy masking issues and over spraying?.
> 
> The top left tuner hole has some finish issues with like a grainy texture running around it?.
> There is a mask line visible on the first little cut out on the top of the headstock and Im also seeing that horn spray problem mentioned above /\
> 
> the neck profile looks awesome for me personally. I dig flat necks way more than fat C shapes.


Yep those little details are what I believe he's edging out today


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


> Yep those little details are what I believe he's edging out today


ah thats great news. They are the only flaws I can see so with them sorted, this is going to be killer!.

Look forward to seeing updates.


----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


> View attachment 57875
> View attachment 57876
> View attachment 57875
> View attachment 57876
> View attachment 57877


it really is coming along nicely.

Seriously dig this Sci Fi aesthetic.


----------



## Nemesis Vnholy

If this build turns out killer, I’ll probably put in an order on a 9-string Azwen.


----------



## Wizardtac

Nemesis Vnholy said:


> If this build turns out killer, I’ll probably put in an order on a 9-string Azwen.



Y'all will be the first to know promise you that!


----------



## Nemesis Vnholy

Wizardtac said:


> Y'all will be the first to know promise you that!



Much obliged.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I'm still hella skeptical on his quality after following this thread since the beginning. Some of his aesthetic choices are absolutely not my thing but I do dig the carbon fiber and tech/cyber punk blue lines on it. Really hoping you're satisfied with the instrument, and thanks for documenting it for us and remaining completely open minded.


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## ElysianGuitars

Hope he's going to fix the low string scratching the pickups...


----------



## Wizardtac

ElysianGuitars said:


> Hope he's going to fix the low string scratching the pickups...


Whoaa good eye! Yeah I sent him a message about it


----------



## lewis

woah holy shit. So its a 6 string with huge 8 string style spacing?.
I dont know why I didnt know this haha I didnt even count the headstock tuner holes before hahah.

Completely oblivious obviously.


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> woah holy shit. So its a 6 string with huge 8 string style spacing?.
> I dont know why I didnt know this haha I didnt even count the headstock tuner holes before hahah.
> 
> 
> 
> Completely oblivious obviously.



I really wanted a bass that played and felt like a giant metal guitar!


----------



## Wizardtac

I play in an instrumental bass and drum band where I use alot of octave pedals and a looper so I kind of play riffs and leads on bass! Keyboard drum parts horns you name it


----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


> I play in an instrumental bass and drum band where I use alot of octave pedals and a looper so I kind of play riffs and leads on bass! Keyboard drum parts horns you name it


that is so cool dude.

I would love to do that sort of a thing as a side project. Maybe just a bedroom band thing for me though haha.


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> that is so cool dude.
> 
> I would love to do that sort of a thing as a side project. Maybe just a bedroom band thing for me though haha.


----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


>



holy shit that sounds massive haha.
so sweet!.


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> holy shit that sounds massive haha.
> so sweet!.


Glad you dig!!!

Also he says pickups have since been lowered so the string isn't scraping it


----------



## Wizardtac

I


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Wizardtac

Pull volume knob kill switch and momentary button killswitch in the red circle!


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Hollowway

The only thing I think is a bummer is those blue lines not being smooth and even. It would be awesome if he could template cut with a router, or even CNC, and have them be perfect. It just looks too freehand for me.


----------



## Wizardtac

Hollowway said:


> The only thing I think is a bummer is those blue lines not being smooth and even. It would be awesome if he could template cut with a router, or even CNC, and have them be perfect. It just looks too freehand for me.



You know I thought he actually did more cnc work when I started the build had no idea it's all hand done. On that note I would have opted to get inlays only on the neck more straightforward blocks and side markers. For a cleaner carbon fiber look.


----------



## Wizardtac

The inlays by far was the longest part of the process and leaves something to be desired. My signature WIZARDTAC MOD-1 on the back of the neck does look stellar though.


----------



## Hollowway

Wizardtac said:


> The inlays by far was the longest part of the process and leaves something to be desired. My signature WIZARDTAC MOD-1 on the back of the neck does look stellar though.



Yeah, that part looks amazing. I wonder if he did it in a different way? Maybe he had preformed letters and inlayed them?


----------



## Wizardtac

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, that part looks amazing. I wonder if he did it in a different way? Maybe he had preformed letters and inlayed them?


There's an Instagram video of him doing the inlays on the signature and it was basically a micro Dremel and some kind of transfer material as a stencil it looked like


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Hollowway

Not gonna lie - that looks awesome! If the stuff I mentioned earlier (the lack of smooth/ straight lines) was corrected I would pay virtually any amount of money for something like that!


----------



## lewis

Holy hell that came out awesome. Cant wait for vids and sounds. Amazing


----------



## A-Branger

man that body/string action is looooow, barely any pickup left for anchoring your thumb.

Who needs a finger ramp when the whole bass is a ramp hehehe  

but agree with Holloway, love the design and aesthetics of it, but those lines should be dead perfect, rather than "organic"


----------



## laxu

Looks cool but the control cavity covers not sitting flush with the body is not that nice looking and would have been fairly simple to fix.


----------



## Randy

Hollowway said:


> Not gonna lie - that looks awesome! If the stuff I mentioned earlier (the lack of smooth/ straight lines) was corrected I would pay virtually any amount of money for something like that!



This forum can be hilarious sometimes, with the absolute bipolar extremes when it comes to things posted on here. From dogpiling on nearly impossible to catch flaws or "well this is probably messed up" based on a flaw seen elsewhere or on another build entirely, to "I'd pay anything for that if the flaws were fixed". Like, there's no rational in between?

Also, I get that no flaws > flaws and that it's supposed to be a futuristic biomechanical design, so precision is the assumption but I think it's sick pouring on the guy's build for the inlay work being done by hand instead of by CNC. Yeah it's less than absolute perfect but the notion any of that is done by hand is impressive and I'd personally take near perfect by someone's hand over perfect by a machine, in terms of appreciation for craftsmanship and value.


----------



## pondman

That's an absolute beauty. Have you received it yet?


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


> This forum can be hilarious sometimes, with the absolute bipolar extremes when it comes to things posted on here. From dogpiling on nearly impossible to catch flaws or "well this is probably messed up" based on a flaw seen elsewhere or on another build entirely, to "I'd pay anything for that if the flaws were fixed". Like, there's no rational in between?
> 
> Also, I get that no flaws > flaws and that it's supposed to be a futuristic biomechanical design, so precision is the assumption but I think it's sick pouring on the guy's build for the inlay work being done by hand instead of by CNC. Yeah it's less than absolute perfect but the notion any of that is done by hand is impressive and I'd personally take near perfect by someone's hand over perfect by a machine, in terms of appreciation for craftsmanship and value.



Yeah, well that might be more me than anyone else. I just can't get passed the waviness of the lines. That being said, this is the internet, so I would not literally have paid any amount of money . It's more of my way of saying to Wizard that, after all the dissing I did, it actually came out looking really cool.


----------



## Wizardtac

A-Branger said:


> man that body/string action is looooow, barely any pickup left for anchoring your thumb.
> 
> Who needs a finger ramp when the whole bass is a ramp hehehe
> 
> but agree with Holloway, love the design and aesthetics of it, but those lines should be dead perfect, rather than "organic"



I really really stressed the importance of snake shit action to him all through out the build and especially as we've entered this QC portion of the build


----------



## Wizardtac

Randy said:


> This forum can be hilarious sometimes, with the absolute bipolar extremes when it comes to things posted on here. From dogpiling on nearly impossible to catch flaws or "well this is probably messed up" based on a flaw seen elsewhere or on another build entirely, to "I'd pay anything for that if the flaws were fixed". Like, there's no rational in between?
> 
> Also, I get that no flaws > flaws and that it's supposed to be a futuristic biomechanical design, so precision is the assumption but I think it's sick pouring on the guy's build for the inlay work being done by hand instead of by CNC. Yeah it's less than absolute perfect but the notion any of that is done by hand is impressive and I'd personally take near perfect by someone's hand over perfect by a machine, in terms of appreciation for craftsmanship and value.



Which is true I feel in away I really rushed him on the inlays too, I stated previously that was the absolute longest portion of the wait. I'm floored that it glows and from a performance aspect it will look "perfect" from a distance. If I could go back I'd of minimalized the inlays to markers only


----------



## Wizardtac

pondman said:


> That's an absolute beauty. Have you received it yet?


Ships tomorrow!




I'd like to say thanks to yall btw. For the well wishes on hopefully receiving a shred machine. The fellas that are really worried I wasted my money I thank you too because your scrutiny has kept Matt on his toes. It's not about the money though I'm not a rich man by any means but, When you are building a ground up custom instrument for someone that's a person's hopes and dreams on the line. You don't fuck around with that and im sorry to anyone has been burned by Etherial.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, having been burned so many times myself, I’m super nervous whenever I see someone post that they’ve put in a custom order somewhere. So this is really awesome that it’s done, it looks good, and you’ll soon have it.


----------



## Hollowway

What we haven’t really talked about - but perhaps now should - is the crazy specs on this thing. Do you have anything like this you’re currently playing? I mean, with the string spacing, tuning, etc. And how do you play it?


----------



## Wizardtac

Well long story is,

I had a 4 string for about the first two years of bass playing. Picked up an incredibly ugly Ibanez 6 string back in the day after hearing Primus. Who didn't???? Well, I just never went back. Sure people ask me all the time "Well what can you do on a 4 string?" Theoretically "enough" Scientific fact "not as much."

I picked up a Conklin 7 string when I was in the Army played that thing for 4 years. I ended up tuning it with an E string on top instead of a low B tuning it DADGCFBb. With tapping and etc I began playing more and more guitar-ESC leads and rhythms with the extended range. I loved the huge massive wide neck on the 7 but the string spacing was "tight" 

Down the road I picked up a Stealth Pearl Bongo 6 HH. I found that 6 strings where really optimal for me. I don't like the feel of having any unwound strings on a bass type instrument at all. Those strings lose tone and began to sound twangy and alien from the rest of the strings. The Bongo is the best commercially made 6 string bass I've ever played. The 18mm string spacing was amazing. To emulate those "leads" from my 7 string my brother introduced me to using pedals after 12 years of none at all. Bought a digitech whammy and a looper which changed everything. 

Now I'm in a two piece "space doom metal deathjazz band" it's myself and a drummer. I play bass,guitar, keyboard,horn,percussion parts all on the one instrument with all the pedals I use now.

When I contacted Matt I wanted a bass that looked and played like an oversized metal guitar. Hence the push button killswitch and tremolo bridge! This bass has 27frets 35-34.8 spacing and 17.5mm string spacing. As soon as I figure out the file size limit I'll add some videos to the forum

35-34.8 scale*


----------



## Hollowway

Wait - you have a 0.2" fan? Is that a typo, or are you just insane?


----------



## Wizardtac

Hollowway said:


> Wait - you have a 0.2" fan? Is that a typo, or are you just insane?


 It started out as fanned fret bass and I didn't want it to be to extreme. Then I decided on the bridge and the design had to change because the bridge isnt multiscale and I've been excited for the hybrid scale ever since


----------



## Hollowway

Wizardtac said:


> It started out as fanned fret bass and I didn't want it to be to extreme. Then I decided on the bridge and the design had to change because the bridge isnt multiscale and I've been excited for the hybrid scale ever since



Ah, OK. Well, if there's a discussion on playing multiscale instruments, just don't go swinging your dick around, or someone's gonna punch you.  

That being said, it's cool that you even considered something below 1.5", because people usually just sort of "round down" to 0 at that point. But, there's really no reason you shouldn't do a fan of that amount, if it suits the built and can work with conventional hardware like that.


----------



## neun Arme

Wizardtac said:


> Now I'm in a two piece "space doom metal deathjazz band" it's myself and a drummer. I play bass,guitar, keyboard,horn,percussion parts all on the one instrument with all the pedals I use now.


Now, I want to hear that, what's the name of the band? Where can I listen to some of what you do?


----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Wizardtac




----------



## Wizardtac

Hollowway said:


> Ah, OK. Well, if there's a discussion on playing multiscale instruments, just don't go swinging your dick around, or someone's gonna punch you.
> 
> That being said, it's cool that you even considered something below 1.5", because people usually just sort of "round down" to 0 at that point. But, there's really no reason you shouldn't do a fan of that amount, if it suits the built and can work with conventional hardware like that.



What I meant was I'd played multi scale instruments ibanez,dingwall in the past and it was a multiscale bass. I basically traded in the fan fret system so that I could have a tremolo. Then the micro fan came along


----------



## Wizardtac

neun Arme said:


> Now, I want to hear that, what's the name of the band? Where can I listen to some of what you do?


----------



## lewis

@Wizardtac 

Was watching Childrens TV with my daughter and this came on...... -


----------



## Mr_Mar10




----------



## Wizardtac

Exactly here is my stage garb


----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


> Exactly here is my stage garb
> 
> View attachment 58127
> View attachment 58128
> View attachment 58129


haha man thats so cool.

Although jesus dont you overheat with all that on?.
I would pass out if it were me.
Ive played stages before where the light rig was low above the drummer on an arc and it meant the stage temp was stupidly overbearing. If I wore this I would have died haha


----------



## Hollowway

Holy shit, that's amazing!


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> haha man thats so cool.
> 
> Although jesus dont you overheat with all that on?.
> I would pass out if it were me.
> Ive played stages before where the light rig was low above the drummer on an arc and it meant the stage temp was stupidly overbearing. If I wore this I would have died haha



It's more breathable then you think there's no sleeves on the cloak and the sides of the vest are cut out. It's also some U.S. level 3 body armor

The mask has a functional microphone and voice modulator routed to an on board mini guitar amp or to the pa


----------



## neun Arme

Wizardtac said:


>



Sounds pretty cool, do you plan on recording something ?


----------



## Wizardtac

neun Arme said:


> Sounds pretty cool, do you plan on recording something ?



We where waiting on said new bass to show up to do quality recordings a year late it officially shipped

It's not hear and I've got tunes already written for it. Hahaha delay tremolo bar and the killswitch I know some good dubstep tricks for that!



I uploaded a few other clips from Instagram and such all to the linked YouTube tell I get some recordings done here soon


----------



## BlackMastodon

Holy shit. Where do you play/where can I see you play?


----------



## Wizardtac

I'm mainly playing in the Midwest-Kansas, Missouri,Oklahoma basically out of my local area. Just your average disgruntled veteran trying to make it playing music. Hopefully on a more professional level soon!


----------



## Wizardtac

Here is a video of what our setup actually looks like before I made the super villian suit. Haha


----------



## Wizardtac

So my bass transferred from TNT to FedEx and FedEx tracking says it will be here tomorrow the "5th" instead of the 10th which I can hardly believe.hahaha I'll be staring out the window all day tomorrow....


----------



## DudeManBrother

The scheduled delivery date for a new guitar is the best/worst day ever! Hope it’s awesome man.


----------



## Wizardtac

So bass showed up and I fucking hated it. Went out and sold it before I started puking. I'll give y'all the details later today.


----------



## lewis

Wizardtac said:


> So bass showed up and I fucking hated it. Went out and sold it before I started puking. I'll give y'all the details later today.


oh.....my....god.....

after all that?. Really?.

SHIT!.

sorry to hear this and I look forward to hearing the story. Another black mark against Etherial then?


----------



## Mathemagician

Jeeeeeeeesus. I was like “ok haha where’s the punchline.....”. 

Gonna get my popcorn and check this again later.


----------



## bostjan

I hope you're kidding. Please be kidding.


----------



## odibrom

damn... everyone's expectations killed in a sentence...


----------



## cwhitey2

Wizardtac said:


> So bass showed up and I fucking hated it. Went out and sold it before I started puking. I'll give y'all the details later today.


----------



## Wizardtac

Okay we'll start from the beginning out of the box, immediately noticed that my bridge pickup was pushed all the way into the cavity on one side while the screw was hanging out. Here I was able to see just how bad the inside cuts for the pickups where. Rather unfinished looking....

The Kahler trem and spretzel locking tuners performed flawlessly. So the parts of the bass Matt didn't design where the best parts.... 

The blend knob had a scratchy pot.
Push button killswitch worked but you could hear the actuation of the button being used kind of like a scratchy pot.
For an 18volt system the pickups where quiet unusually. I had the same pickups preamp in another bass so I requested this. It also had an overwhelming hum at volume like the jack wasn't making full connection?
I told Matt specifically "I only use DR neon strings." Of course I love the glow but the way I play I need coating I'll wear out that new string sound in an hour. The B is a 125.
The bass showed up with some cheap D'adarios that went I attempted to tune snapped 3 strings at the tuner like they had been taken on and off repeatedly and tuned under extreme tension before being loosened for shipping. 
He sent another unopened pack of strings and they both had a 130 B string which was too large for the rollers on the tremolo. Also being too large of diameter and untapered was incredibly difficult to notch in the bridge.

The scooped neck profile was "cool" but the outside walls or dimensions where wayyyyy too thick. Like I understand now how on his guitars this could feel wonderful but, it felt like he just went "bass?? Just make everything larger." Basically playing in the high end was okay or in the middle of the neck but it felt like my thumb was just stuck in a channel. If that makes sense?

Aesthetically there was some places on the neck where it looked like the fretboard material gooped over the side of the neck. Spots where there was paint and speckling in the glow. So all the stuff y'all said about the finish and "organic lines" where much worse in person but the glow effect was dope.

On my end I fucked up in that I told him I wanted 27 frets. I said I wanted a 34" scale. He suggested the 35 too fit the extra frets seemlessly.
Huge mistake. I got injured in the Army and have 40% feeling in my right hand. So the extra inch of neck and the kahler made even my whole step down tuning. A higher tension then I like. Im also not about to tune to G..... the extra scale length made the neck seem alien and disproportionate to what I am used too. The 27 frets on the low B and E string led me to have to adapt my slapping style back closer to the bridge which was unnatural. I should have had that portion of the fretboard cut out. 

So I sat there and mauled it over give it I found all these problems in one single day... 

I'm starting a build with Prometeus Guitars in two weeks. With everything I learned I know exactly what to ask for.

I sold my Bongo 6 Stealth Pearl HH to partially fund my Etherial build. I miss that bass so much and when I played this bass it made me miss it more. Bongo is the best playing,sounding commercial bass I've ever played hands down and it shreds alot of boutique basses. I sold the Etherial put money down on a bongo stealth black HH, bought a line 6 helix and a mark bass amp....


----------



## Wizardtac

I was going to upload pictures but it keeps saying my files are too large?


----------



## Wizardtac

I could have just kept my bongo, and added a Kahler and pushbutton killswitch to my $500 ltd bought a shitload of extra gear and been alot happier.


----------



## Wizardtac

I waited so long, paid too much. But at this point it didn't even hurt honestly. Ive been ready for this. I didn't want to put any time into playing something I wasn't totally happy with. 
This thing was a turd.

I don't want someone else to wait almost two years and be disappointed.


----------



## prlgmnr

Firstly, I'm so sorry it turned out this way as this would have looked so cool with all the other aspects of your live aesthetic.

Secondly



Wizardtac said:


> Basically playing in the high end was okay or in the middle of the neck but it felt like my thumb was just stuck in a channel. If that makes sense?



Would you say it was almost like it tessellated the human thumb?


----------



## Mathemagician

That sucks to hear dude. Sorry after all that it was still a hack job. 

As for photos maybe creating a separate public “album” then just posting the link here?


----------



## Mr_Mar10

What a frustrating end to your ‘dream guitar’
Best of luck with new build


----------



## Wizardtac

prlgmnr said:


> Firstly, I'm so sorry it turned out this way as this would have looked so cool with all the other aspects of your live aesthetic.
> 
> Secondly
> 
> 
> 
> Would you say it was almost like it tessellated the human thumb?




Thanks my friend! Literally the glow was the only thing super cool about it and yes..... If you want your thumb to tesselate itself in a jail shaped like a half pipe...


----------



## Wizardtac

I'll get an album together for the pics. Speaking of album my band VoidWalker is on Facebook our page is kind of empty at the moment but I'm going to breathe some life into it as I get my gear situation figured out recordings etc. No shame in saying hey guys I got burned and could use the support stop over there and follow us if you want tunes in the future!


----------



## Wizardtac

lewis said:


> oh.....my....god.....
> 
> after all that?. Really?.
> 
> SHIT!.
> 
> 
> 
> sorry to hear this and I look forward to hearing the story. Another black mark against Etherial then?



Absolutely.


----------



## Wizardtac

You guys want to take a guess at what's really erking me about the bass and it's new future? Hahahaha


----------



## Mr_Mar10

Having ur name/alias on the neck?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

If homeboy still can't build a decent guitar after almost a decade, maybe it's time to throw in the towel.


----------



## Wizardtac

Mr_Mar10 said:


> Having ur name/alias on the neck?


 
It stings!!!!!!!


----------



## Mr_Mar10

^ that (what max said)

He’s clearly got excellent ideas just not the finesse to match


----------



## lewis

Im absolutely speechless.
The huge plus from this is you sold it for great money and invested in some sick stuff to replace it. So Kudos for that. And well done shifting it that fast and for that amount.

I cant believe that after all these years, Etherial are still making such garbage...


----------



## bostjan

Damn.

...and this was the best-looking thing I think he's done so far.

What a waste of time, money, and otherwise good carbon fiber.


----------



## Wizardtac

bostjan said:


> Damn.
> 
> ...and this was the best-looking thing I think he's done so far.
> 
> What a waste of time, money, and otherwise good carbon fiber.



Heck it looked great right up until I physically picked it up and felt immediate. "OH No."


----------



## Wizardtac

There was also Zero Gap from the fretboard to pickup height. The only way to have the pickups lower than the fretboard is to have it completely cranked down. Or the pickups actually sit higher than the fretboard.


----------



## Wizardtac

I could see how his guitars could play decent and have the aesthetics but this man has no right to make a bass. Like completely missed the beat. The upper horn seems generous but when you go to tap you realized there isn't actually enough clearance cut in and your thumb is not touching the back of the neck rather riding the top of the body.


----------



## Wizardtac

Heck when I sold my bongo 6 to pay for part of this bass. The guy who bought it through eBay complained it smelled like smoke.. I wasnt offended by the comment but instantly felt sad about how much time I spent playing that bass. Do you have any idea how long it takes to make a bass actually smell like smoke???? For a Doom guy like me kind of pissed on its badge of honor. Hahaha


----------



## odibrom

We really need pics of that thing that should not be named.

I think we all guitar nerds need this space aged looking guitars/bass for gasing at and eventually playing, guess they just won't be Etherial.

kudos for the really fast shipping it of your back, that's some serious selling sills you got there, any tips to share?


----------



## btbg

lewis said:


> I cant believe that after all these years, people are still giving Etherial money...



FTFY


----------



## Wizardtac

odibrom said:


> We really need pics of that thing that should not be named.
> 
> I think we all guitar nerds need this space aged looking guitars/bass for gasing at and eventually playing, guess they just won't be Etherial.
> 
> kudos for the really fast shipping it of your back, that's some serious selling sills you got there, any tips to share?


 
I went to Guitar Center and they wouldn't even take it. Not even a trade in. Went to another music store showed them the bass, spec list. They didn't know much about Etherial at all. They got really caught up in the aesthetics just like us here. I explained that GC is selling one for an Arzwen from 8 years ago for $1599 when to get one made is $1720. I just told the dude that our local GC was being kind of rude to me and wouldn't even touch my bass and you don't let a guy who spends $3500 on one bass walk out of your store if you want him to spend that money back at your business the same day. Hook and sinker.


----------



## Wizardtac

Wizardtac said:


> I went to Guitar Center and they wouldn't even take it. Not even a trade in. Went to another music store showed them the bass, spec list. They didn't know much about Etherial at all. They got really caught up in the aesthetics just like us here. I explained that GC is selling one for an Arzwen from 8 years ago for $1599 when to get one made is $1720. I just told the dude that our local GC was being kind of rude to me and wouldn't even touch my bass and you don't let a guy who spends $3500 on one bass walk out of your store if you want him to spend that money back at your business the same day. Hook and sinker.



Explained I just really messed up with my scale choice. With my injury it's a big deal I already can't feel my finger tips haha


----------



## bostjan

I'm just trying to fathom how bad this must have been if you took one look at something into which you invested so much time and money and say "that's a hard nope."

I see what you mean about the upper horn. The thought had really not occurred to me that it'd end up being in the way. As far as the string tension, I mean, lighter strings should have lowered the tension and also eased up the problems with the Kahler and such, but if the whole feel of the neck and the instrument in general was as horrible as you described, I really doubt that would be anywhere near enough to change your mind.

So your local mom and pop guitar shop has it now?

Just really bummed this didn't work out.


----------



## Wizardtac

bostjan said:


> I'm just trying to fathom how bad this must have been if you took one look at something into which you invested so much time and money and say "that's a hard nope."
> 
> I see what you mean about the upper horn. The thought had really not occurred to me that it'd end up being in the way. As far as the string tension, I mean, lighter strings should have lowered the tension and also eased up the problems with the Kahler and such, but if the whole feel of the neck and the instrument in general was as horrible as you described, I really doubt that would be anywhere near enough to change your mind.
> 
> So your local mom and pop guitar shop has it now?
> 
> Just really bummed this didn't work out.



I drove about two hours out of my area. Couldn't of sold it in my area way to rural. 

Being completely honest I am incredibly picky anyways. Dude only put one truss rod in a 6 string bass with Tremolo. I just had no idea when I went to the build. Kind of like " hmm yes carbon fiber rigidity. Makes sense one truss rod hmm must know what he's doing." I spent the time setting up that's my personal specialty. It was a hopeless venture. The bass had a great sound unplugged and it had potential but I was going to definitely have to have the wiring looked at because it was quiet as heck for the preamp in it.


----------



## Wizardtac

I will put another Kahler on a bass in the future. Absolutely quality kit right there I had no idea what I was missing out on. instantly adaptable to my techniques.


----------



## Wizardtac

The particular gloss finish that was on the bass looked great but when it came to playing it was difficult to change positions felt like a lunch room floor or something haha.


----------



## A-Branger

shit man really sorry about the experience. You prob would have been best to buy a bongo and send it to a luthier for a paint re-finish with glow resing and stuff. Prob even cheaper than this bass and quicker


----------



## Wizardtac

A-Branger said:


> shit man really sorry about the experience. You prob would have been best to buy a bongo and send it to a luthier for a paint re-finish with glow resing and stuff. Prob even cheaper than this bass and quicker



IF ANYONE CAN FIND SOMEBODY WILLING TO DO THIS I MUST KNOW. Haha....


----------



## Wizardtac

I really am considering either getting a second bongo and having a trem added and removing some material in key places. Adding some inlays or lights. For now I'll go back to the Bongo throw my lights back on it. "Easiest Bass to attach lights to the bridge."


----------



## A-Branger

Wizardtac said:


> IF ANYONE CAN FIND SOMEBODY WILLING TO DO THIS I MUST KNOW. Haha....


start asking around.

maybe the drill the bass witha dremell to fill with glow resin might be too muhc. Another option is to use vinyl wrap, stickers something like that. In that way you can print your pattern and stick in top of a black bass. Prob the cheapest option if you get a mate black bongo. Same deal with the pickguard. I recon this would be the way to go for you bro. Plus no waiting time and barely any extra cash

grab the stealth bongo and one of these






and start cuttiing lines and patterns, stick to your taste


----------



## Hollowway

Damn, sorry to hear this!
I don't know him personally, but if I were going to have anyone take an existing instrument and do significant mods to it I'd probably give it to http://www.gmwguitars.com. I follow Lee online, and he does some amazing rehabs, mods, refinishes, etc. He could put a Kahler in and refinish it easily - he does that stuff all day long. He might be able to do something with the glow material, too, but you'd have to ask him about that. It's possible that you could put actual glow tape on, clear over it, and then have the effect. Or, just use glow paint, and do something. Either way, he'd be the first person I'd talk with.

The other consideration would be to talk with someone who does a lot of CNC work, and have them program a pattern so that you could get a super accurate pattern cut in the body. The first person that would come to mind for that is Kevin Fast of Fast Guitars. He would be able to handle it. He'd be more expensive, since it would be done from scratch, but I'd bet less than what you paid Etherial.


----------



## Wizardtac

A-Branger said:


> start asking around.
> 
> maybe the drill the bass witha dremell to fill with glow resin might be too muhc. Another option is to use vinyl wrap, stickers something like that. In that way you can print your pattern and stick in top of a black bass. Prob the cheapest option if you get a mate black bongo. Same deal with the pickguard. I recon this would be the way to go for you bro. Plus no waiting time and barely any extra cash
> 
> grab the stealth bongo and one of these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and start cuttiing lines and patterns, stick to your taste



I'd be really happy to just have my pickguard like an led pannel. Also If I where to have mods done to a bongo I've though of having part of the lower horn scooped out. There's so many good luthiers out there I feel just won't even touch an existing instrument to do the kind of stuff I want done.


----------



## Nemesis Vnholy

Very sorry to hear that the custom Etherial didn’t work out. I was really hoping that they had turned things around.


----------



## bostjan

You could cut your own pickguard from clear plastic (maybe polycarbonate), then attach thin (translucent) contact paper to the inside surface, and install LED's underneath. The contact paper would make it look nice (make sure to adhere it very flat and smooth) and also help diffuse the beamy light from the LEDs. It should be a pretty easy and cheap mod. You could even use a small toggle switch drilled through the pickguard, so that you don't have to do anything to the instrument's body.


----------



## xCaptainx

Wizardtac said:


> I waited so long, paid too much. But at this point it didn't even hurt honestly. Ive been ready for this. I didn't want to put any time into playing something I wasn't totally happy with.
> This thing was a turd.
> 
> I don't want someone else to wait almost two years and be disappointed.



Read this entire quote with the melody from "Linkin Park - In The End" chorus + next verse. Feels like an Etherial theme songs just been written.


----------



## Wizardtac

xCaptainx said:


> Read this entire quote with the melody from "Linkin Park - In The End" chorus + next verse. Feels like an Etherial theme songs just been written.



Oh heck hahahah


----------



## jonajon91

Not to be that guy coming along to stir the pot, but if you agreed on 27 frets, 35 inch scale and the scooped neck thing before hand and then didn't like them when it came it isn't really on him. The scratchy tone knob, wrong strings and spotchy fillings are bad, but it seems your main gripes could have been fixed in the planning stages.


----------



## bostjan

I've seen maybe 1-2 reviews of people who have loved the scooped neck and I've heard 100x more backlash against it. Since Etherial is the only builder I'm aware of doing this, I wouldn't expect anyone to know whether or not it'd be a deal breaker before hand.

The 35" scale thing has me a bit puzzled, since the complaint seems to be more about tension - just get lighter strings and that problem's solved, but I think it's more like trying to fix the water heater in the Titanic as it's sinking - it's an insignificant issue compared to everything else going wrong here. I read it more like "In addition to these other problems, these are the wrong strings, and since the scale length is longer, it made it suck even more."

If the two main gripes are that the workmanship was shitty and that the thing played shitty, can we maybe lump those two together? Probably. If the workmanship had been great, and the playability had still been an issue, then I would agree, but I don't think that's the case here, unless I'm misreading things.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

What did you expect from a guy with a shit track record like his? I've never seen or heard anyone give a good review about his instruments except for the guy the ordered that carbon fiber 9 string (NaYon?). I'm not trying to bash you or anything because it sucks that you wasted your money but this could have been avoided by researching for 5 minutes or less. The guy can come up with a cool design or two but he can't build for shit.


----------



## bostjan

Search youtube, there are maybe 2 or 3 positive reviews. If you have shit search skills and shit luck, I could see where you might think that these were the bee's knees.


----------



## odibrom

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> What did you expect from a guy with a shit track record like his? I've never seen or heard anyone give a good review about his instruments except for the guy the ordered that carbon fiber 9 string (NaYon?). I'm not trying to bash you or anything because it sucks that you wasted your money but this could have been avoided by researching for 5 minutes or less. The guy can come up with a cool design or two but he can't build for shit.



@Wizardtac ordered the bass knowing the full story, it was a "for the science" kind of thing, a test to see if the design could uphold against build. At the end of the paper one reads that they don't.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Well shit, sorry to hear it was a dud but I'm glad you were honest about it and not blinded by receiving a new toy.


----------



## lewis

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> What did you expect from a guy with a shit track record like his? I've never seen or heard anyone give a good review about his instruments except for the guy the ordered that carbon fiber 9 string (NaYon?). I'm not trying to bash you or anything because it sucks that you wasted your money but this could have been avoided by researching for 5 minutes or less. The guy can come up with a cool design or two but he can't build for shit.



I agree about his vision. IF he stepped backing from the building and instead partnered up with an excellent builder and between them created his visions but to the quality expected and deserved when paying custom fees, then he really would have a modern, sick alternative to anything else custom thats out there.

Instead he would rather plod along getting huge money and ruining his businesses reputation.
I mean its good for a get rich quick scheme, but surely long term that business model isnt sustainable?. Eventually EVERYONE will get wind and just not order from him?.
But yeah his style but with the build quality of say Waghorn, would be really really cool


----------



## QuantumSoundLab

So "shit" is still the general consensus? Fuck me. I was _really _hoping for a success story after the 70 pages I read to get here. 

So, his wooden guitars are said to be worth their weight in shit, yeah? I remember hearing how easily they warped and how bad the finish was. How about his Carbon Fiber (Zatha) builds and whatever the Azwen is made out of? Those are solid, yeah? Not just wrapped in something? I'm _really _trying to like this brand. I really want to believe that these horror stories are only a select few, but you guys are nothing if not honest. 

To be clear, I've read all the nitpicking in this thread. A slightly slanted nut, a dusty trem, little imperfections, I can generally look past as long as it does not affect the playability or aesthetic (not looking under a microscope). 

Also, not sure if this has been pointed out yet, it seems they currently have no signature models and endorse zero artists. Take from that what you will.


----------



## jonajon91

I think they endorse a few artists, some techy core band had two guitars built, one for each guitarist and the people in Rings of Saturn use them.

Quality of builds aside, this guy makes some fantastic designs. Perhaps his best bet would be to merge with another company that can actually help with the fine tuning. I mean look at this build, If I was filthy ritch I'd order a few builds just to hang on the wall.


----------



## thesnowdog

It's all a bit strange. You'd think it must be terribly demoralising for the builder too.


----------



## QuantumSoundLab

jonajon91 said:


> I think they endorse a few artists, some techy core band had two guitars built, one for each guitarist and the people in Rings of Saturn use them.



Not anymore. Lucas Mann of Rings Of Saturn had a signature model with them, then he left to go to Schecter. There was also a dark red signature model called ANN ROSO (who's guitar this was, I am unsure) and a crazy blue/white/black swirl model for another guy. Since late last year, all those artists have left, and their sig models are no longer available.


----------



## Mathemagician

QuantumSoundLab said:


> So "shit" is still the general consensus? Fuck me. I was _really _hoping for a success story after the 70 pages I read to get here.
> 
> So, his wooden guitars are said to be worth their weight in shit, yeah? I remember hearing how easily they warped and how bad the finish was. How about his Carbon Fiber (Zatha) builds and whatever the Azwen is made out of? Those are solid, yeah? Not just wrapped in something? I'm _really _trying to like this brand. I really want to believe that these horror stories are only a select few, but you guys are nothing if not honest.
> 
> To be clear, I've read all the nitpicking in this thread. A slightly slanted nut, a dusty trem, little imperfections, I can generally look past as long as it does not affect the playability or aesthetic (not looking under a microscope).
> 
> Also, not sure if this has been pointed out yet, it seems they currently have no signature models and endorse zero artists. Take from that what you will.



Not even going to sugar coat it. The designs can be cool. But this guy can’t build a guitar to save his fucking life. 

People keep ordering because they don’t do any research and his prices are relatively low for a “custom” guitar, which gets people who are first venturing into custom builds all excited as though they’ve found some secret no one knows about yet. 

When they read horror stories they compartmentalize and say that “it’s a one-off problem”. Over and over. 

Would be great if it wasn’t true, but it is.


----------



## Alberto7

I don't quite understand why he keeps building guitars. Unless he actually has an unfortunate passion for building instruments, (in which case I'd feel awful for him and I'd tell him to completely change his approach) there's gotta be like a zillion easier ways to make money out there.



QuantumSoundLab said:


> So "shit" is still the general consensus? Fuck me. I was _really _hoping for a success story after the 70 pages I read to get here.
> 
> So, his wooden guitars are said to be worth their weight in shit, yeah? I remember hearing how easily they warped and how bad the finish was. How about his Carbon Fiber (Zatha) builds and whatever the Azwen is made out of? Those are solid, yeah? Not just wrapped in something? I'm _really _trying to like this brand. I really want to believe that these horror stories are only a select few, but you guys are nothing if not honest.
> 
> To be clear, I've read all the nitpicking in this thread. A slightly slanted nut, a dusty trem, little imperfections, I can generally look past as long as it does not affect the playability or aesthetic (not looking under a microscope).
> 
> Also, not sure if this has been pointed out yet, it seems they currently have no signature models and endorse zero artists. Take from that what you will.



His non-wood guitars are, indeed, solid, as opposed to hollow. As posted a couple of pages back, he seems to be using XPS foam (extruded polystyrene) as his core material, coated in carbon fiber. The material may or may not negatively affect the sound of these guitars. I think it's likely detrimental to the overall acoustic resonance of an instrument. (Though I'm late to that part of the discussion.)

I can't even try to like this brand anymore. How many chances is someone supposed to give them? Every single one of his guitars here has been crossed off as garbage, (and there is pretty clear photographic evidence behind these claims) and I think I'd see a lot more positive posts about them if they were any good. (We all like to brag about our new awesome guitars, after all!)

Also, I totally get what you were trying to say about the nitpicking, but I felt the need to... ahem... nitpick.. your statement and say that a slanted nut IS a pretty big deal. Nuts have to be some of the most precisely manufactured parts in a build, as far as I understand, and will hugely affect playability. (String buzz + intonation.)



jonajon91 said:


> I think they endorse a few artists, some techy core band had two guitars built, one for each guitarist and the people in Rings of Saturn use them.
> 
> Quality of builds aside, this guy makes some fantastic designs. Perhaps his best bet would be to merge with another company that can actually help with the fine tuning. I mean look at this build, If I was filthy ritch I'd order a few builds just to hang on the wall.



I can see why some people like the designs - I know I did for some time. I still do at first glance; for about the first 10 seconds. Then I look a little bit closer, and I realize that most of the lines don't really make much sense and/or match with one another. Some lines do look beautiful (like the contour of the body of the guitar in your post), but most other lines it's like he gave a print of the CAD drawing plus a crayon to his child and told him to go nuts. (i.e. the aluminum plates on the back of the guitar... I get what he tried to do, but he done fucked up.)


----------



## feraledge

thesnowdog said:


> It's all a bit strange. You'd think it must be terribly demoralising for the builder too.


In this case, and I could be reading it wrong here, but it sounds like the builder was 100% off the hook. Dude sold the guitar, didn't hold the builder accountable, as I believe should have been the case. Whole other can of worms for the ethics of shilling a bunk-as-fuck guitar to the local shop, but a considerable part of the question as to how this builder, or any for that matter, gets away with it? Well, he got paid. Bass was sold. The only person who could have held him accountable seemingly didn't. Now another shit instrument is just out there.


----------



## Mr_Mar10

How long do u reckon before we see this guitar in the classified section?

guitars like these tend to ‘do the rounds’


----------



## @zwen

Hello everyone! I own an 8 string Etherial Azwen and would like to give some of my own input.

In short, I am in love with my guitar, and I think it sounds and plays amazing. It also is extremely gratifying whenever I pull it out of its case and people audibly gasp when they see it because it’s such a radical design. It definitely stands out among the flock of Kiesels and Aristides.

It did have some minor flaws when it came to me, and that was frustrating because I spent $2000 on this, but I believe that Etherial is a staff of three people who do every build. I think there are times when they are simply overwhelmed, and this might be an issue for the company, because they are growing.



There is a yellow splotch right next to the 2nd fret. I am also disappointed that my fret markers don’t hold their purple glow for too long.

While it is not visible in the picture, the 2nd fret also had a scrape on it under the F# string. There is slight friction when you bend it.



The headstock as well had some black marks on it as well.



There is a small dollop of purple paint inside the cuts on the upper horn. The fret markers are hand painted and the 27th fret markers are uneven and right next to this black smear. Speaking of the 27th fret, I feel like its measurements are just a hair off. It certainly doesn't affect the playability, but it is something I used to notice a lot. The neck pickup slightly rocks back and forth too, but only when I put pressure on it; it doesn’t rattle. The routings cold also probably be tighter, but I prefer the work he did on my guitar as opposed to the gaping and uneven designs he used to do.

There is absolutely a conversation to be had about how Matthew Brown specs out his instruments. I feel that he places the artistic aesthetic above all else, and this, combined with his willingness to try out new experimental things sometimes makes him produce guitars that are...questionable, or even horrific. However, I truly believe he has some brilliant ideas, such as building an battery powered LED fretmarkers into his carbon fiber necks.

As far as my guitar is concerned, I am
ultimately happy with it. I actually enjoy how the indented neck “tessellates” my thumb. I think it’s super comfortable for an 8, and it took almost no time to adjust to coming from an RG2228. The carbon fiber is lovely to look at. The only thing I can say in regards to the Wizard-Tac bass is that the neck design obviously does not work on a bigger instrument. Again, Matt’s experimental nature can lead to beautiful outcomes or utter disappointment.

The tone of my Azwen is very sharp and articulate. The aluminum body does lend this subtle bell-like chime and resonance to the notes that I can’t quite explain, other than this guitar sounds clearer than my old Siggery. It’s like the strings cut more and have an overtly metallic feel to them. The cleans on this guitar sound AMAZING, as do the distorted tones.

Obviously this is a company with a checkered past. I’m not going to make excuses for the examples documented here. All I can say is that Matthew Brown is truly a polite individual and he loves the guitar as an instrument. The overall quality of Etherial has improved dramatically since he stopped using cheap wood and went over to metal/carbon fiber. His designs are an acquired taste, but I love how truly alien his guitars are, especially to audience members who see it for the first time.

If you want an Etherial, know exactly what specs you want and get one. If you’re afraid that you’ll get a lemon, go with another brand that people generally trust, like Ormsby or Kiesel. At the end of the day, I am happy to own this guitar, and you should feel happy about yours too, whatever you choose to play.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

smells like shill in here


----------



## @zwen

I’m simply giving my honest opinion and detailing my experience with the company. C:


----------



## KnightBrolaire

>necrobumps etherial thread
>has etherial related username
>leaves relatively positive review of etherial guitar...
yeah you're definitely not a shill


----------



## @zwen

This is an epic thread that still gets views and has been on going for years. I simply wanted to interject my opinion. I made an account so I could do just that.

As for your accusations of me being a “shill,” you simply didn’t read my comment. I spend paragraphs detailing the flaws on my instrument in the most accurate way I can. To say that I was being entirely positive is just an outright lie. :/


----------



## @zwen

KnightBrolaire said:


> >necrobumps etherial thread
> >has etherial related username
> >leaves relatively positive review of etherial guitar...
> yeah you're definitely not a shill



I have to apologize, I overlooked the “relatively” part. Yes, I am happy with my guitar, but I still would like to point out that I detail all the issues with my guitar, and I even end it by saying that people should look elsewhere if they want to buy something with confidence. I am new to this website, but I am interacting in other threads as well, and they have nothing to do with Etherial.


----------



## Winspear

Plenty of users here name themselves after their guitar  Excellent and detailed review, thanks for sharing


----------



## @zwen

Winspear said:


> Plenty of users here name themselves after their guitar  Excellent and detailed review, thanks for sharing


Thanks, Mr. Winspear. If there is a product line I will shill for, it’d be your excellent plectrums, strings, and cables.


----------



## Fred the Shred

In all fairness, the sheer amount of incredibly amateurish mistakes on those pics alone would make me go "nah..." considering the price point isn't in firm "dirt cheap" territory. Usually, when I see stuff like that it means that there is a) an obvious inability to perform the tasks necessary to implement a clean look (which does overlap with playability in quite a few key points) and b) a notoriously bad QC process in place, which only furthers the previous point: if you can't implement steps A or B in the building process, they will certainly go through QC and nothing will be corrected before you get yourself a shiny, alien looking lemon.

I don't doubt the man is very passionate about guitars. I honestly find that quite sad, because this means he has both the passion and the vision to create something unique in the market, but he isn't a luthier in the slightest. Not having enough clearance for the pickups' adjustment is absurd, for example, and it certainly doesn't stem from anything pertaining form over function: it's ignorance. Same thing for some of the features like the almost reversed fan he had out at one time - who on Earth picked up an ERG and thought "oh man, if only barring was made impossible and I could have random waves on the fretboard that serve no functional purpose other than destroying playability?". Nobody. He saw Oni's curved frets and didn't get the logic, so he "kinda sorta went for it". There's no artsy statement here, the original was done that way for a reason, and his knowledge clearly was not enough to begin to understand WHY it had been designed that way.

tl;dr - he is the luthiery equivalent of that kid that LOVES guitar and metal and hops on stage to play Dream Theater songs without having even played his first barre properly and is super dismissive of it sounding like shit, so he does it again the next week.


----------



## @zwen

Yeah, the banana frets are fucking ridiculous. While I am happy with the guitar, that still doesn’t mean I ignore the issues it has. I feel like Etherial is starting to attract more and more customers, and it will only benefit Matt to hire more people because he spreads himself really thin. I foresee even worse issues with QC as the workload increases. I also know that this would take an incredibly large slice of humble pie, but he should bring in more luthiers and professionals to help refine his designs. He’s got a mind for engineering, and that is his strength, I just think he needs some more help.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Fred the Shred said:


> In all fairness, the sheer amount of incredibly amateurish mistakes on those pics alone would make me go "nah..." considering the price point isn't in firm "dirt cheap" territory. Usually, when I see stuff like that it means that there is a) an obvious inability to perform the tasks necessary to implement a clean look (which does overlap with playability in quite a few key points) and b) a notoriously bad QC process in place, which only furthers the previous point: if you can't implement steps A or B in the building process, they will certainly go through QC and nothing will be corrected before you get yourself a shiny, alien looking lemon.
> 
> I don't doubt the man is very passionate about guitars. I honestly find that quite sad, because this means he has both the passion and the vision to create something unique in the market, but he isn't a luthier in the slightest. Not having enough clearance for the pickups' adjustment is absurd, for example, and it certainly doesn't stem from anything pertaining form over function: it's ignorance. Same thing for some of the features like the almost reversed fan he had out at one time - who on Earth picked up an ERG and thought "oh man, if only barring was made impossible and I could have random waves on the fretboard that serve no functional purpose other than destroying playability?". Nobody. He saw Oni's curved frets and didn't get the logic, so he "kinda sorta went for it". There's no artsy statement here, the original was done that way for a reason, and his knowledge clearly was not enough to begin to understand WHY it had been designed that way.
> 
> tl;dr - he is the luthiery equivalent of that kid that LOVES guitar and metal and hops on stage to play Dream Theater songs without having even played his first barre properly and is super dismissive of it sounding like shit, so he does it again the next week.




The man is clearly an idiot. That being said he's got an aesthetic that attracts customers so who knows. maybe he's a genius.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

He was offered a lot of help from knowledgeable builders but turned it down. He also ignored years worth of advice to correct design flaws and errors in his builds. I guess thats the difference between someone who will strive to make the highest quality guitar possible and someone who never corrects their flawed designs.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Problem here is actually a common one, further complicated by lack of know-how from the man himself, namely that of product cost not accounting for the cost of the company's growth, should it happen, and as such it's too low. Increasing the size of the operation to cope with demand costs money. Acquiring know-how to correct mistakes costs money. This is what ultimately completely fucked S7G - everything was too cheap for the company to be able to withstand the cost expanding it to efficiently tackle the amount of business they attracted in one fell swoop, and as such shit hit the fan at record speeds.

There's another thing here that does stand out, judging from Lorcan's post, namely one that can't be solved by money, since no known surgery is capable of pulling one's head out of his ass, and that is a problem which can only be corrected by the afflicted person. Artistic integrity is a valid point, except when your "art" is often a massive turd because you completely ignored the "functional" bit in what is, whether one acknowledges it or not, functional art.


----------



## @zwen

I will protest at the guitars being categorized as completely non-functional. They are fine. Do they justify the price? That’s debatable, and I am saying this as a customer who DOES like his guitar.


----------



## @zwen

I did almost go with this design, and I’m glad I didn’t. It was originally drawn up for someone else.


----------



## narad

That is honestly one of the worst things I've ever seen on these boards. That "bridge" pickup!!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

*the scene from Team America where Gary doesn't stop vomiting*

To each their own though. It's a bummer these are still so suspect in quality.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

At least it will sound a lot better than having a middle and neck pickup.


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## Fred the Shred

I don't mean this as a blanket statement regarding all his designs. For example, I see functional issues on your guitar, but nothing that would render it useless or unplayable at first glance - sometimes, it's absolutely fine to have suboptimal (within reason) functional aspects here and there to be able to implement a purely aesthetic feature. However, stuff, like the absurd wavy frets is, factually, an impediment to proper playing to an absolutely unacceptable degree. Other aberrations seen here showcase that sometimes it's as if basic tenets of guitar functionality and design aren't a thing at all, and they will impact core aspects like actual playability, structural integrity, or the ability to perform the most basic adjustments.

He had this pseudo-superstrat thing (which I think noYan's is based on IIRC) that looked fine, everything was adequately placed and proportionate, so if anything would be an issue, it would be a construction issue, not a fundamental flaw of the design itself, for example (and apparently there was plenty of the "construction issue" bit doing the rounds, but I digress). Others however, would be colossal fuck-ups on the most basic levels of design, and in this day and age, with all the learning tools available, that is just a case of head-up-the-arsitis and willful ignorance.



@zwen said:


> I did almost go with this design, and I’m glad I didn’t. It was originally drawn up for someone else.
> 
> View attachment 72968



I won't lie. I actually burst into laughter upon seeing this thing. Oh, so much stuff that can (and will most likely) go wrong with the concepts.


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## @zwen

It’s fine, man. It’s such a ridiculous guitar.


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## diagrammatiks

@zwen said:


> I will protest at the guitars being categorized as completely non-functional. They are fine. Do they justify the price? That’s debatable, and I am saying this as a customer who DOES like his guitar.




Honestly it's 2020. Making a mostly functional guitar isn't the gold medal. 3 Indonesian children and a cnc machine can perfectly functioning guitar.


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## @zwen

Spot on. With the vast amount of knowledge we have free access to today, there is no excuse for that. I do appreciate everyone hearing me out, so thank you.


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## Tsathoggua

@zwen said:


> I did almost go with this design, and I’m glad I didn’t. It was originally drawn up for someone else.
> 
> View attachment 72968


Reminds me of this instrument:




Lorcan Ward said:


> At least it will sound a lot better than having a middle and neck pickup.


I actually like how this one looks. But this person really didn't understand the ergonomic aspects behind the Oni fanfrets. I mean, there's multiple places you can read up on what the thought process behind those were, and it had very little to do with aesthetics.

How is the weight on these, by the way?


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## prlgmnr

@zwen said:


> I did almost go with this design, and I’m glad I didn’t. It was originally drawn up for someone else.
> 
> View attachment 72968


you're under arrest


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## Randy

@zwen said:


> I spent $2000 on this



Therein-lies the issue, IMO. Not jumping on the train that all guitars should be inaccessibly expensive, and there are ton of cheap guitars that play 100% perfectly with little to no flaws, but $2000 for how outside of the box the features/materials are on these is unsustainably cheap Which is probably why they can only employ three people and why the QC is shoddy. It's hard to QC something and repair/toss a guitar when you're working in those kinds of profit margins. Doubly when almost every build is custom.


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## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> Therein-lies the issue, IMO. Not jumping on the train that all guitars should be inaccessibly expensive, and there are ton of cheap guitars that play 100% perfectly with little to no flaws, but $2000 for how outside of the box the features/materials are on these is unsustainably cheap Which is probably why they can only employ three people and why the QC is shoddy. It's hard to QC something and repair/toss a guitar when you're working in those kinds of profit margins. Doubly when almost every build is custom.



Thank you for verbalizing what I've been thinking the whole time since reading this batch of posts.


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## Mathemagician

I like your point. Basically that the number of unusual to off the wall features combined with predominantly hand-made manufacturing makes it so that there is no room for error or to correct a mistake so results in a “you get what you get” due to it being so cheap.

On top of whatever ego/attitude the builder has.


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## Randy

Mathemagician said:


> I like your point. Basically that the number of unusual to off the wall features combined with predominantly hand-made manufacturing makes it so that there is no room for error or to correct a mistake so results in a “you get what you get” due to it being so cheap.
> 
> On top of whatever ego/attitude the builder has.



More or less. Woodworkers have an infinite number of workarounds to cover-up mistakes (solid or stain to cover filler from dings, binding to hide gaps in glued surfaces, etc), aluminum and carbon fiber hide NOTHING and are infinitely harder to work, along with their own mountain of idiosyncrasies (like epoxy layup for the cf, slotting a hard surface like aluminum for frets with small bits prone to breaking). The margin for error is razor thin, if not non-existent.

As an entrepreneur, if someone pitched me on joining this company I'd say you have to raise your price at least another $1000 or compromise on your features to deliver. You can't fuck up an aluminum fretboard with banana frets and 'fix it', it's gotta go in the trash and you're out the materials, decent wear on your machines and a lot of time.

I can totally see having a stinky attitude if you're likely paying yourself starvation wages because you're building stuff with outrageous specs for the price. I don't mean any of that as a defense of the company or the builder, if anything it's the opposite, but I get where all of this is coming from.

Etherial would be much better served raising the price, lowering the target numbers and tooling/focusing on features they can definitely deliver on.


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## Deegatron

Randy said:


> More or less. Woodworkers have an infinite number of workarounds to cover-up mistakes (solid or stain to cover filler from dings, binding to hide gaps in glued surfaces, etc), aluminum and carbon fiber hide NOTHING and are infinitely harder to work, along with their own mountain of idiosyncrasies (like epoxy layup for the cf, slotting a hard surface like aluminum for frets with small bits prone to breaking). The margin for error is razor thin, if not non-existent.
> 
> As an entrepreneur, if someone pitched me on joining this company I'd say you have to raise your price at least another $1000 or compromise on your features to deliver. You can't fuck up an aluminum fretboard with banana frets and 'fix it', it's gotta go in the trash and you're out the materials, decent wear on your machines and a lot of time.
> 
> I can totally see having a stinky attitude if you're likely paying yourself starvation wages because you're building stuff with outrageous specs for the price. I don't mean any of that as a defense of the company or the builder, if anything it's the opposite, but I get where all of this is coming from.
> 
> Etherial would be much better served raising the price, lowering the target numbers and tooling/focusing on features they can definitely deliver on.



I disagree on this point.
If you take away the bizarre and absurd features on these guitars and force Ethereal to focus on "core competency" (ie: putting out a proper solid instrument first and foremost) you're left with a company that has a bad reputation for poor build standards and QC, that no longer offers any of the unique features that attracted his customer base in the first place.
Sales would dry up all together and the company would fold.
The only way forward for this company would be to drastically increase prices ( I'm talking about the $10K per instrument range) and properly deliver on the quirky features that he offers on top of a flawless instrument.
Due to the aforementioned poor reputation for quality and QC I would not expect any customers to be willing to shell out $10K for an ethereal guitar. for that reason I believe this company is already sunk... it's just a matter of time before his capital runs out and builds start stalling and the builder disappears/files for bankruptcy.

His builds are 100% not my cup of tea but it's a shame as they were certainly unique design and construction wise... and I think the industry needs a little more of that....


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## Randy

Deegatron said:


> I disagree on this point.
> If you take away the bizarre and absurd features on these guitars and force Ethereal to focus on "core competency" (ie: putting out a proper solid instrument first and foremost) you're left with a company that has a bad reputation for poor build standards and QC, that no longer offers any of the unique features that attracted his customer base in the first place.
> Sales would dry up all together and the company would fold.
> The only way forward for this company would be to drastically increase prices ( I'm talking about the $10K per instrument range) and properly deliver on the quirky features that he offers on top of a flawless instrument.
> Due to the aforementioned poor reputation for quality and QC I would not expect any customers to be willing to shell out $10K for an ethereal guitar. for that reason I believe this company is already sunk... it's just a matter of time before his capital runs out and builds start stalling and the builder disappears/files for bankruptcy.
> 
> His builds are 100% not my cup of tea but it's a shame as they were certainly unique design and construction wise... and I think the industry needs a little more of that....



I actually think we're in mostly or full agreement here. The signature stuff would need to stay, so the use of aluminum and carbon fiber, the futuristic shapes and techy looking graphics, etc.

I just remember a build somebody posted on here and the graphic work was specific to that build, so it was done by hand (which caused it to look sloppy close up) and I can't remember if it was painted on or inlayed but either way, it was more work than necessary for a poorer result than acceptable.

I'd toss out the "one off" in-house graphic thing overnight. If someone wants a unique graphic, upcharge and send it to someone that knows what they're doing (which happens in every other industry and in a lot of guitar shops). Graphics in general stay but screenprint them or vinyl them so that they're flawless and repeatable every time.

Fanned frets can stay, banana frets... eh, idk, maybe they're a signature of the brand at this point but doing banana frets in an aluminum board when you can't do the basic stuff seems unnecessarily cumbersome. At this point, machining fanned frets is almost as easy as doing straight frets, less places to fuck up and more ways of covering mistakes seamlessly vs. banana frets. I know Oni does banana frets but I have to imagine machining them in wood is infinite times easier and even if you fuck up, you probably have another 4 or 5 blanks you resawed off that same bulk to draw from.

I haven't checked out this brand in at least a year, so maybe their process has changed but they previously seemed like they were changing up their specifics so much from build to build that it was nearly impossible to tool things in a reliable, standardized way. It was like each build was starting from scratch. And if you're a guy like Ken Parker building a half dozen acoustics a year for $30,000+ a piece, you can take that kinda time and retool your shop for every piece you build but you cannot do that for $2000 a piece and materials that beat the shit out of your tools, cost more per piece than their wood equivalent and leave zero room for error.

EDIT: I also agree on pushing the industry, which is why I give guys like Etherial and Claas more leeway than they probably deserve. Yeah, as far as what I want as a consumer, I'll take a simpler better build guitar over a barely functional art piece but as an observer, I think an Etherial with some flaws that need to be overcome moves the needle a lot more than a $3000 immaculate telecaster copy with a faux roadworn finish.


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## Deegatron

Randy said:


> I'll take a simpler better build guitar over a barely functional art piece but as an observer, I think an Etherial with some flaws that need to be overcome moves the needle a lot more than a $3000 immaculate telecaster copy with a faux roadworn finish.



Ahhhhhhhhh THANK YOU!!!!
WHY IS THAT GARBAGE SOOO FREAKING POPULAR!?!?!?!?!?!?! AHHHHH IT LITTERALLY KILLS ME!


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## prlgmnr

Deegatron said:


> Ahhhhhhhhh THANK YOU!!!!
> WHY IS THAT GARBAGE SOOO FREAKING POPULAR!?!?!?!?!?!?! AHHHHH IT LITTERALLY KILLS ME!


Perhaps for the same reason that, generally, cars have four wheels and go, for the most part, where you want them to; to the vast detriment of visionary marques who craft one-off masterpieces with 2 wheels on the opposing corners, a steam driven piston on one of the remaining corners and leave the last corner unoccupied, with a chassis made out of granite and a special camelid-wool-lined bucket seat that perfectly tessellates the human arse.


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## Fred the Shred

Yeah, I mentioned that earlier here - it's absolutely impossible to maintain any operational margin, let alone grow the company, if you price your stuff too low. It also makes the margins so slim you basically can't afford to hold on to a build to rectify issues or subcontract a specialized company to do some oddball requests you are ill equipped to do yourself, so it's a bit of a "shoot from the hip" approach to a very complicated, low tolerance choice of mats and styles.


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## MaxOfMetal

Everything I've gleaned from this company over the years, harking back to when they were just doing goofy wooden guitars with straight (ish) frets and tribal inlays, is their quality ethos is: "eh, good enough". 

I just don't think they really care to put the effort into making a guitar free of defects. Especially when people are still paying money for their current output.


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## Fred the Shred

To be honest, should they ever go "man, it's really time to up the QC and raise the prices accordingly so this stops being a shitshow" I can see hordes of dudes that would never buy one even before whining about the prices anyway, and since people seem keen on paying the Tesselating Hack, it's not like there's any motivation to do so, seeing as a) he doesn't give a fuck and b) people are giving him money anyway.


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## Demiurge

Maybe this is exactly what the builder is aiming for now. If you want a thoughtfully-designed, expertly built guitar, go elsewhere and expect to pay beaucoup bucks. If you want to plunk-down $2k for a sci-fi can opener that will drop jaws from 2 yards away- considering that the average person looking at it won't know or care about design flaws- there's your ticket.


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## odibrom

In most parts of the world 2k$ for a guitar is still a lot of money and the guitar should be expected (almost) perfect.


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## MoonJelly

odibrom said:


> In most parts of the world 2k$ for a guitar is still a lot of money and the guitar should be expected (almost) perfect.



Ummm, no. $2k may be a fairly _low to standard price_ for a production guitar built in the USA. Not for a custom shop, one-off instrument, in any part of the world. 

If it's a guitar with custom specs, you're looking at $3k and up, my friend.


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## Ordacleaphobia

MoonJelly said:


> Ummm, no. $2k may be a fairly _low to standard price_ for a production guitar built in the USA. Not for a custom shop, one-off instrument, in any part of the world.
> 
> If it's a guitar with custom specs, you're looking at $3k and up, my friend.



I think you're looking at his post through SSO-goggles.
He said it's a lot of money _for a guitar_; not a custom guitar, or anything related to country of origin. In that aspect, he's quite correct- for $2,000 I can buy a brand new, decently specced guitar off the rack and it'll more often than not be perfect or 'close enough.' 

Obviously though, that's just 'a guitar,' not a custom guitar or some stringed piece of alien xenomorph weaponry. But when you strip out all of the whacky shapes, W necks and such out of the equation, end of the day, it's still a guitar, and that's still a lot of money for a guitar. Whether it's reasonable to expect the guy to be able to deliver that entire package at that pricepoint is another discussion, but homeboy's gotta remember he's not selling art pieces. He's selling guitars. 

Just sayin'. I'd pay him more than what he's asking for if he could build me an actual, functioning guitar that plays at least on the level of a quality Ibanez.


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## cip 123

To be quite honest, whoever runs Etherial may be nothing sort of a Genius.

They've seen in this world of Jared Dines and djent kids, that people are willing to shell out for RAD 20 string guitars that wouldn't even be properly playable if they were built by the Lord himself...and they've gone all in with concave necks, banana frets, and a life time guarantee of cuts from their edgy designs.


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## MoonJelly

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I think you're looking at his post through SSO-goggles.
> He said it's a lot of money _for a guitar_; not a custom guitar, or anything related to country of origin. In that aspect, he's quite correct- for $2,000 I can buy a brand new, decently specced guitar off the rack and it'll more often than not be perfect or 'close enough.'
> 
> Obviously though, that's just 'a guitar,' not a custom guitar or some stringed piece of alien xenomorph weaponry. But when you strip out all of the whacky shapes, W necks and such out of the equation, end of the day, it's still a guitar, and that's still a lot of money for a guitar. Whether it's reasonable to expect the guy to be able to deliver that entire package at that pricepoint is another discussion, but homeboy's gotta remember he's not selling art pieces. He's selling guitars.
> 
> Just sayin'. I'd pay him more than what he's asking for if he could build me an actual, functioning guitar that plays at least on the level of a quality Ibanez.



I get what you're saying and I agree...I maybe didn't state clearly enough, Etherial advertises as a custom builder with lots of extra options, the price should be higher if they're investing enough time in each instrument for the QA to be halfway decent. 

But this is not an 'SSO' idea...even a Fender production strat can be $2k or more with really standard specs. They make hundreds of them a year.

$2000 may be a lot of money to a lot of people, but I don't think it's a lot of money for a quality musical instrument.


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## diagrammatiks

MoonJelly said:


> I get what you're saying and I agree...I maybe didn't state clearly enough, Etherial advertises as a custom builder with lots of extra options, the price should be higher if they're investing enough time in each instrument for the QA to be halfway decent.
> 
> But this is not an 'SSO' idea...even a Fender production strat can be $2k or more with really standard specs. They make hundreds of them a year.
> 
> $2000 may be a lot of money to a lot of people, but I don't think it's a lot of money for a quality musical instrument.




Maybe we can all agree that 2k is too much money for a piece of shit.


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## Fred the Shred

Given that guitars aren't instantly built, thing about pricing is basically making a profit while making sure the hourly rate paid to the building team in the process, mats and operational margin are covered (naturally, things like CNCs and reusable infrastructural needs are not going to have their recoup included in the cost of a single instrument). Most of these fly-by-night luthiers have a pricing structure that makes it so that their hourly wage is dismal, there's no operational margin in the slightest, and... what's profit again? One can't be surprised the end result is subpar, and excusing poor craftsmanship with a financial limitation that comes from none other than the company itself is disingenuous, really.


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## @zwen

Tsathoggua said:


> Reminds me of this instrument:
> View attachment 72996
> 
> 
> I actually like how this one looks. But this person really didn't understand the ergonomic aspects behind the Oni fanfrets. I mean, there's multiple places you can read up on what the thought process behind those were, and it had very little to do with aesthetics.
> 
> How is the weight on these, by the way?



I don’t notice the weight too much because I’m fit, but it is a very heavy instrument compared to something like a Les Paul.


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## Synesthesia

@zwen said:


> I did almost go with this design, and I’m glad I didn’t. It was originally drawn up for someone else.
> 
> View attachment 72968


What is the purpose of the banjo-esque half fretted low string? I get why a banjo has it. But on a banjo the string terminates there. To have the string continue on, it becomes a drone string?... with some fretable notes? Why not just fret the rest?


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## @zwen

Synesthesia said:


> What is the purpose of the banjo-esque half fretted low string? I get why a banjo has it. But on a banjo the string terminates there. To have the string continue on, it becomes a drone string?... with some fretable notes? Why not just fret the rest?



I honestly couldn’t tell you. Zero frets serve a purpose when playing open notes, but I don’t really notice anything different when I play.


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## Synesthesia

@zwen said:


> I honestly couldn’t tell you. Zero frets serve a purpose when playing open notes, but I don’t really notice anything different when I play.


I dont mean a zero fret. I meant on the plan you posted (the instrument you almost went with). The lowest string has a fretboard only under half of its length. There are higher frets but then the fretboard ends. It would essentially just be a drone string below the fretted section. I know you said it was designed for someone else. I was just curious what the thought process would be behind it.


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## @zwen

Synesthesia said:


> I dont mean a zero fret. I meant on the plan you posted (the instrument you almost went with). The lowest string has a fretboard only under half of its length. There are higher frets but then the fretboard ends. It would essentially just be a drone string below the fretted section. I know you said it was designed for someone else. I was just curious what the thought process would be behind it.



My bad, dude. I honestly don’t know. It’s a 12 string guitar with a headstock that utilizes headless tuners. It hurts my eyes. At least my Azwen stays in tune lol.


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## BlackMastodon

That thing looks like a meme someone on here would make to make fun of Etherial. There's so much wrong with that abomination that I didn't even realize the lowest string doesn't have most of a fretboard under it until Synesthesia mentioned it.

Also, it bothers me way more than it should that they spelled the name of the company with an i instead of an e.


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## spudmunkey

[QUOTE="BlackMastodon, post: 5058453, member: 29158"

Also, it bothers me way more than it should that they spelled the name of the company with an i instead of an e.[/QUOTE]

(I assume) it's a Herman Melville reference.


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## lewis

Damn in in love with these designs.
These and class are like the main designs i find totally appealing to me these days.


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