# Mustang vs Camaro!



## troyguitar (Dec 8, 2011)

Anyone have an opinion on the matter re: which is the better of the two? Comparing strictly the 2012 base V6 models with manual transmissions... or any other sub-$25k competitor on a performance-per-price basis.

Keep in mind I'm an engineer for a primarily big-3 supplier and live in the Detroit area... buying something from Japan is more or less out of the question.

So far I've only driven the camaro and an automatic mustang but the camaro was during rush hour traffic so I didn't _really _get to drive it


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## -42- (Dec 8, 2011)

The Mustangs seem to be held in higher esteem, but I personally cannot attest to the quality of either.

The Mustang also seems to retain value better. News Headlines


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## scherzo1928 (Dec 9, 2011)

I've driven both the V8s, and also the V6 stang. While I loved the V8 mustang, the V6 version is pretty friggin good already. Definately has everything you will ever need.

As for the camaro, though it looks cool, show it some corners (I live in a mountain area without straight roads) and it turns into this:






It just dives and rolls all day long.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 9, 2011)

I've driven a 2011 5.0 Mustang, and a 2011 2SS Camaro, one right after the other. Both optioned out with 6-speeds.

The Camaro was an absolutely amazing piece of machinery. 

The Mustang pissed all over the Camaro...then kicked it in the teeth, poked it in the eye, said something unfriendly about it's mother, and gave it a wedgie. 

All while being cheaper. Exactly why our driveway will have a 5.0 in it sometime next year.

Wish I could comment on the v6 models, but I honestly feel the outcome would be the same. The 5.0 makes less power than the 2SS. It wasn't the engine that sold me, it was the entire package. And the fact that the Mustang makes less power, and still runs harder than the Camaro.

EDIT:

As a disclaimer: I was born and raised a die hard GM fan. I've ALWAYS owned a GM product (with maybe something else on the side), but the Mustang was just THAT good.

I'm quickly converting to Ford, I believe.


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## scherzo1928 (Dec 9, 2011)

What I like about the V6 Mustang is that it feels much lighter than it looks. Certainly lighter than the previous V8 model, but with more power... Takes no time for it to put a smile on your face.


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## VILARIKA (Dec 9, 2011)

My own 





I tried out an SS Camaro, and it did feel great on the open road. As an every day car though? I thought the Mustang was more comfortable and smoother for every day use. I love the look of the Camaro (probably more than the Mustang), but I was more comfortable with the features of the Mustang for every day use. The Camaro's body is bulkier, deeper, and vision isn't as great.

EDIT: Mine is V6 Auto, hate all you want, I still enjoy it


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## Mendez (Dec 9, 2011)

Why you no drive stick?! 

 Sorry I'm just die a little when i see awesome sport cars in auto. Very nice car though 

Edit: I would go the mustang route w/o a second thought, just love how they look.


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## ZEBOV (Dec 9, 2011)

I can't say which I prefer because I have never driven a sports car. I've only been a passenger in them. However, since you also asked if we have an opinion on any other competitor on a price-per-performance basis, I have another idea that is somewhat outside the box: some of the large 4-door sedans are surprisingly high performance (even for the base models), and insurance can be cheaper too. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger are the only sedans I can think of that are high performance, and they start right at $25k. I don't know what Chevy and Ford have that can compete with them in performance AND price.

EDIT: ...except sports cars like the Camaro and Mustang.
^That gets tacked onto the very end.


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## Guitarmiester (Dec 9, 2011)

Charger.


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## poopyalligator (Dec 9, 2011)

Well, if it were me. I would definitely be looking at the camaro before the mustang. I like the mustang, and they drive fairly well, but at the end of the day it is still a ford, and for the most part that means bad transmissions, cheap plastic interior, and you will have one of the most common cars in the world (and I am not a huge fan of the gauges either, personal preference i guess). The camaro is a pretty cool car. I think they are one of the most common cars also, but I think they are made a little bit better. Performance wise i believe that they are very similar, I think the handling is a bit better on the stang, and the overall the pickup of the camaro is better. I say give them both another try, and see which one like better.


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## Guitarmiester (Dec 9, 2011)

I haven't driven any of the recent Mustang's, but have yet to be all that impressed by them. 9 times out of 10 when I see someone driving a Mustang it's an 18 year old girl or 50+ year old guy. 

Dodge or Jeep will always have my vote.


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## troyguitar (Dec 9, 2011)

VILARIKA said:


> My own
> 
> ...vision isn't as great.


 
Nice, dark metallic blue is the color I'd get on either car.

The vision is my absolute biggest complaint about the camaro. You can't see anything out of the tiny windows. Sure it looks cooler, but it definitely bugs me. I feel like I'm going to hit something because I couldn't see it


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## glassmoon0fo (Dec 9, 2011)

I'd go mustang all day long. In addition to everything already said, the camaro's line of vision is like driving a tank. The rear pillars are huge and the front and rear sightlines are super narrow, and it made me a bit uncomfortable driving it. The mustang is common, sure, but there's a reason for that. Also, the "it's a Ford" comments have been put to rest pretty soundly this past decade, so we can let those go .

Mustang. Do it. It'll make your peen bigger.


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## scherzo1928 (Dec 9, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Nice, dark metallic blue is the color I'd get on either car.
> 
> The vision is my absolute biggest complaint about the camaro. You can't see anything out of the tiny windows. Sure it looks cooler, but it definitely bugs me. I feel like I'm going to hit something because I couldn't see it


 
Argh, that's my biggest complaint about the camaro. You can't look cool when you have to pop your head out the window each time you enter a parking lot.


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## VILARIKA (Dec 9, 2011)

poopyalligator said:


> Well, if it were me. I would definitely be looking at the camaro before the mustang. I like the mustang, and they drive fairly well, but at the end of the day it is still a ford, and for the most part that means bad transmissions, cheap plastic interior, and you will have one of the most common cars in the world (and I am not a huge fan of the gauges either, personal preference i guess). The camaro is a pretty cool car. I think they are one of the most common cars also, but I think they are made a little bit better. Performance wise i believe that they are very similar, I think the handling is a bit better on the stang, and the overall the pickup of the camaro is better. I say give them both another try, and see which one like better.



Your comments on the Mustang are the same I have read about Camaro's , but I think they are both win/win if you can weigh out the factors that you enjoy out of either car. Every time I see a Camaro, I always tear a little bit because I still can't get over the fact that the Camaro body looks so much..cooler haha. But then you think about the slight un-enjoyment from driving it every day and it makes things a little better.


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## Customisbetter (Dec 9, 2011)

Troy I'm going to be real with you.

The Camaro isn't a great car. I will explain why here.

This car was built to suit an asthetic. An incredibly bold and menacing concept to show off the "newness" and "edge" that Chevy wanted to bring to its general design language. Because of this its wholly uncomfortable to drive. Nearly impossible to see out and and combersome to the softer eyes.

Now a lot of people look at it adn say,
"Wow that is a sweet looking ride man!" 

That may be the case, but if its something you want to use on a daily basis, go with the Mustang. From the reviews, the tranny is solid, that V6 has a solid and flatish Torque curve and its miles more comfortable on the inside.


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## pink freud (Dec 9, 2011)

Pure performance wise, comparing only the V6 models?

Check out the Hyundai Genesis. Car and Driver compared the V6 Camaro vs the 3.8 V6 Genesis, and the Camaro only won because of "heritage." The Genesis won in every objective category.


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## Daiephir (Dec 9, 2011)

pink freud said:


> Pure performance wise, comparing only the V6 models?
> 
> Check out the Hyundai Genesis. Car and Driver compared the V6 Camaro vs the 3.8 V6 Genesis, and the Camaro only won because of "heritage." The Genesis won in every objective category.



And if you get the 2.0 you get a turbo, turbos are fun :3


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## pink freud (Dec 9, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> And if you get the 2.0 you get a turbo, turbos are fun :3



At that point I'd just get an Evo


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## espman (Dec 9, 2011)

I've driven a v8 muatang, and a srt6 camaro, performance aside, i'd go with the ford, just felt better built overall


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 9, 2011)

poopyalligator said:


> but at the end of the day it is still a ford, and for the most part that means bad transmissions, cheap plastic interior,



Ford doesn't have transmission problems in their 'higher than bottom of the barrel' cars. My sister works at a dealership, and she hasn't seen any Ford newer than 02 come in for transmission work that wasn't blatantly operator error (piss poor driver, using a half-ton pickup when you should be using a 1 ton, hauling with a 1 ton when you should have a fucking semi , etc.).

The new Mustang interior doesn't look cheap and plastic-y to me 

The Camaro's interior absolutely looks like shit, imo. 

But than again, choosing a car is about preference and opinion...until you ask which one is quicker, handles better, and costs less.

Then the Mustang wins all three of those.

But, back to the 'Ford having crap transmissions', explain to me why my sisters old 95 Ford f150 never had a transmission problem after 300,000 miles of heavy use, but my 02 GMC 1500 has transmission problems after 140,000 miles of 'not as heavy' use.

I'm not trying to bash any of the Big 3. This is just in my experience, but Ford makes a better vehicle nowadays. As long as you're spending over $20,000, you can't go wrong with any of the brands...but you'd be better off with Ford.

BIG RED DISCLAIMER: This post is from personal experience and opinion, and from family and close friends experiences and opinions. Nothing else.


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## poopyalligator (Dec 9, 2011)

My history with ford:

02 ford taurus- transmission died out at 60k
04 mustang- transmission died out at 72k
my fathers 04 f150- transmission died out at 80k (never hauled anything really)
my friends 06 focus- transmission died out at 18k

I know you can say diver error, but I have had several cars for way longer than I owned those, and have never had a problem. So given my history with fords, and all of my friends and family's experiences with ford, you can see why I think their transmission suck. I am sure they make better cars now, but i still wouldnt take a chance. As a matter of fact I actually like a lot of their newer vehicles, but given my experiences it will happen never again. Plus I am looking to get a cadillac cts-v coupe early next year.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Dec 9, 2011)

For modern performance cars, the Mustang wins hands down. Those babies handle like a dream. It ain't a bad looker either.












Not to say that Camaros are bad cars, both my parents had Camaros at their first few cars.


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## rectifryer (Dec 9, 2011)

Under 25k, the mustang doesnt win by any measure. That performance title recently belonged to the (strangely) Cobalt SS (faster than any year evo around the nurburgring) and more recent the WRX(jesus, I am a mitsu guy but this car is INSANE--faster than previous years' sti). The pony cars are real nice also. 

Basically, competition is so close you cant really go wrong. 

Personally, I opted for the Lancer RA when I was looking at cars in that price range because it has 4 doors, a better motor tranny combo than the genesis(since the motor from a 2.0t genesis is real similiar to the mitsubishi 4b11t used in the evo x and ralli art) and I am a fanboy.


If someone buys the new 5.0, I have seen that thing run 10's with minimal mods. Tip of the hat to ford!


EDIT: Just saw the out of japan disclaimer.


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## sahaal (Dec 9, 2011)

Cummins?


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 9, 2011)

rectifryer said:


> If someone buys the new 5.0, I have seen that thing run 10's with minimal mods. Tip of the hat to ford!



You've gotta be talking about the Hardcore Performance guys. They lied, and modded the living SHIT out of their 5.0. It did run VERY low 11's with fairly minimal mods, but to lift a tire like they did, their was a lot more work done than they'll admit.

I'll let you know how much it takes when the ole' lady gets her 5.0 in a couple months.


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## rectifryer (Dec 9, 2011)

Well I wasnt there when it was built so thats lame! 

Its like when that evo x ran a 10 nearly all stock in puerto rico but it turned out that the clock was wrong


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## Daiephir (Dec 10, 2011)

pink freud said:


> At that point I'd just get an Evo



Yeah, for 25K more you'd get an actual Evo, those babies are 50G man, it's not the same budget anymore


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## Bevo (Dec 10, 2011)

I wanted a camaro real bad but after a test drive it was no thanks, just could not get over the feeling I was no seeing something..very uncomfortable.

The Mustang felt like a glove right away with the standard tranny, the 6 had a ton of power and the mods available to get more out of it are easy easy! Do a search on Google and see whats out there, check the supercharger mod!

I also tried the 5.0 and that was killer, a bit more power alott more money but just a perfect car for me.
Saying that if I could only get the 6 I would not complain.

There is 6 months left to pay for my Civic then its new car time! 
I think in my case I will get the 5.0 and keep the Civic, its a great car and will be my daily driver.

Oh, the 5.0 with a supercharger bolt on can do over 600HP for $4,000!!


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## Daiephir (Dec 10, 2011)

Bevo said:


> I wanted a camaro real bad but after a test drive it was no thanks, just could not get over the feeling I was no seeing something..very uncomfortable.
> 
> The Mustang felt like a glove right away with the standard tranny, the 6 had a ton of power and the mods available to get more out of it are easy easy! Do a search on Google and see whats out there, check the supercharger mod!
> 
> ...



A supercharger is more than 4k


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## MikeH (Dec 10, 2011)

Hey guys. What's going on in here?


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## Thep (Dec 10, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> ... or any other sub-$25k competitor on a performance-per-price basis.



VW GTI perhaps? Having driven one, I'd much prefer them over your current choices. 

Since Hyundai isn't Japanese, spec-wise, the Genesis Coupe looks really slick for the price.


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## pink freud (Dec 10, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> Yeah, for 25K more you'd get an actual Evo, those babies are 50G man, it's not the same budget anymore



According to their website I can get an Evo MR for 38K.


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## Daiephir (Dec 10, 2011)

pink freud said:


> According to their website I can get an Evo MR for 38K.


 
You talking Evo IX or X? Cause the dealership next to where I live is 53.3K+ for an MR and ''only'' 41K for the GSR (Evo X that is)


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## pink freud (Dec 10, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> You talking Evo IX or X? Cause the dealership next to where I live is 53.3K+ for an MR and ''only'' 41K for the GSR (Evo X that is)



Yeah, but you're in Canada, right?


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## Daiephir (Dec 10, 2011)

Hm, valid point


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## troyguitar (Dec 10, 2011)

Thep said:


> VW GTI perhaps? Having driven one, I'd much prefer them over your current choices.
> 
> Since Hyundai isn't Japanese, spec-wise, the Genesis Coupe looks really slick for the price.



The GTI is an interesting choice that I hadn't considered, though it looks like those don't actually get into Mustang performance until you start modding them and I only plan to lease so modding is out.

I wrote Japanese but I really meant Asian. A German car would be OK if they were cheaper... I also work with VW, Mercedes, and BMW and would probably love a Golf-R or something like that. I just don't feel like spending that much money. The current budget is ~$500/month for the car+insurance payments which means leasing something up to just under $30k or buying something for $20k.

Right now I'm leaning toward leasing a "Premium" V6 Mustang with the "Performance" package which includes tighter gearing and a stiffer suspension. I drove a regular V6 convertible today with a manual and it was pretty good but not as nice as I'd hoped for. Monday I'll finally get to drive a V6 coupe with the performance package to really see how it handles. With any luck it will be sweet and I'll pick one up Thursday.


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## Guitarmiester (Dec 10, 2011)

Thep said:


> VW GTI perhaps? Having driven one, I'd much prefer them over your current choices.
> 
> Since Hyundai isn't Japanese, spec-wise, the Genesis Coupe looks really slick for the price.



 Hyundai? Really? 

Not only are they crap, but they're perfect for the, _"I'd really like X, but can't afford it soooo I'll take the Hyundai that was made to look just like it!" _I find the current Hyundai commercials to be hilarious. Who are they fooling that they can guarantee your future resale value? You can get pretty much any used Hyundai, regardless of age, mileage, condition, etc., for under $5000.


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## Thep (Dec 10, 2011)

Guitarmiester said:


> Hyundai? Really?
> 
> Not only are they crap, but they're perfect for the, _"I'd really like X, but can't afford it soooo I'll take the Hyundai that was made to look just like it!" _I find the current Hyundai commercials to be hilarious. Who are they fooling that they can guarantee your future resale value? You can get pretty much any used Hyundai, regardless of age, mileage, condition, etc., for under $5000.



Get out from under your rock, and go to a Hyundai dealer and sit in a new Equus, Azera, Veracruz, or Genesis and become enlightened. 

I bet you think that Mazdas suck too.


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## Guitarmiester (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't have a problem with Mazda. Even with limited experience when it comes to Mazda, they seem to be pretty solid cars. 

I'll definitely pass on the Hyundais though.


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## MrMcSick (Dec 11, 2011)

I guess he hasn't paid attention lately but ever since hyundai released the Genesis sedan acouple years ago their game has stepped up significantly. All of their cars get great reviews. I didn't want to believe it at first either but they are no longer the bottom of the barrel budget manufacturer.

Side note - I would quickly eliminate any vw as they are the absolute worst things to work on EVER.

I would also choose the stang over the camaro even though they are both about 1500 lbs to heavy lol.


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## Daiephir (Dec 11, 2011)

Slight thread hijack here, has anyone seen a WRC version of the Veloster, that baby is sweet :3


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## troyguitar (Dec 11, 2011)

MrMcSick said:


> I would also choose the stang over the camaro even though they are both about 1500 lbs to heavy lol.



The Mustang I'm looking at is 3319 lbs - not even an Elise is 1500 lbs lighter... What do you drive, a moped?


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## Daiephir (Dec 11, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> The Mustang I'm looking at is 3319 lbs - not even an Elise is 1500 lbs lighter... What do you drive, a moped?



No, we ride on air (hops in invisible car )


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## Bevo (Dec 11, 2011)

Check out the link for the supercharger 2011 5.0L Mustang Supercharger Systems | Vortech Superchargers

This is full retail, my mechanic has done a few and has all the tuning info so that is included. He has quoted me $4,000 but I kinda have to buy the car first lol!!


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## pink freud (Dec 11, 2011)

Personally, there is only one reason I would ever buy a Mustang:
Mk4 Roadster


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## Daiephir (Dec 11, 2011)

Bevo said:


> Check out the link for the supercharger 2011 5.0L Mustang Supercharger Systems | Vortech Superchargers
> 
> This is full retail, my mechanic has done a few and has all the tuning info so that is included. He has quoted me $4,000 but I kinda have to buy the car first lol!!



Well hats already 6K with taxes + 10 hours of install time, amounts nearly to 7K still not 4K


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## Guitarmiester (Dec 12, 2011)

MrMcSick said:


> I guess he hasn't paid attention lately but ever since hyundai released the Genesis sedan acouple years ago their game has stepped up significantly. All of their cars get great reviews. I didn't want to believe it at first either but they are no longer the bottom of the barrel budget manufacturer.
> 
> Side note - I would quickly eliminate any vw as they are the absolute worst things to work on EVER.
> 
> I would also choose the stang over the camaro even though they are both about 1500 lbs to heavy lol.



What's so special about a Hyundai, other than them being dirt cheap and having a really good warranty to mask cheap Korean manufacturing? 09' car of the year next to Kia? That doesn't say a whole lot.


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## MrMcSick (Dec 12, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> The Mustang I'm looking at is 3319 lbs - not even an Elise is 1500 lbs lighter... What do you drive, a moped?



Well I was exaggerating. Camaro z28's are like 3700 lbs and Stang GT or maybe it was the GT500 are like 3500 lbs I think, don't remember exactly. I personally don't like when a performance car exceeds 3200 but thats starting to get impossible these days. 

You guys ever ride in an old crx with a dohc vtec swap and turbo kit. 300 whp and 2000 lbs sure is fun.


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## Daiephir (Dec 12, 2011)

Guitarmiester said:


> What's so special about a Hyundai, other than them being dirt cheap and having a really good warranty to mask cheap Korean manufacturing? 09' car of the year next to Kia? That doesn't say a whole lot.



They're generally better built than the equivalent priced american car  (i.e: aveos, sonics suck badly compared to the same priced accent and elantra)


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## sahaal (Dec 12, 2011)

how about 7500 lbs and 1700ft/lbs?


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## rvai (Dec 12, 2011)

I have yet to drive a camaro, but my dad owns a V6 mustang and it is really confortable to drive, plus you only need a light touch on the gas pedal to start going fast, it is much faster than I thought at first. I reaally love it.


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## troyguitar (Dec 12, 2011)

Well I finally got to drive a few more mustangs tonight. Here's the verdict...

V6 manual basic: This is a pretty decent car. It's already too much for an inexperienced driver but feels lacking to someone looking for a performance vehicle.

V6 manual "Performance Package": The WAY tighter gearing (3.31 vs 2.73 final drive) combined with better handling make this a quite fast and fun car for the ~$23k price. I'm quite tempted to get one of these, it feels MUCH MUCH better than the model without the performance package.

GT manual w/ 3.73 gear: This fucker is just in another league even compared to the performance V6. After about 5 seconds I decided I need a 5.0 with the track package and 3.73 gear  It truly feels closer to a race car than a street car at this point, which is exactly what I'm used to driving. Handles surprisingly well for a heavy old beast. I'm now trying to convince myself to stretch the budget to the ~$27k it will cost me for a base GT with nothing but the gear and track pack... GT's hold their value better than V6's anyway, right?


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## malufet (Dec 13, 2011)

Camaro because of bumblebee. I grew up on transformers and it would be nice to get that bumblebee edition. I don't even care about performance. I've read LS engines are bulletproof too. lol


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## s_k_mullins (Dec 13, 2011)

My girlfriend is currently driving a 2011 Camaro RS...Silver with black racing stripes. It is a very nice car! 
Of course she didn't get it for speed and performance, she just liked its look. And it looks pretty damn good!


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## scherzo1928 (Dec 13, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Handles surprisingly well for a heavy old beast.


 
Aye, my reaction as well in both the V6 and V8. You don't expect it to feel so "nimble", of course it's not a Lotus, but still.




malufet said:


> Camaro because of bumblebee. I grew up on transformers and it would be nice to get that bumblebee edition. I don't even care about performance. I've read LS engines are bulletproof too. lol


 


s_k_mullins said:


> My girlfriend is currently driving a 2011 Camaro RS...Silver with black racing stripes. It is a very nice car!
> Of course she didn't get it for speed and performance, she just liked its look. And it looks pretty damn good!


 
And these are the only reasons for buying the camaro, not knowing anything about cars.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Dec 13, 2011)

For 20k, I'd get a 2002 Z06 Corvette.


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## Customisbetter (Dec 13, 2011)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> For 20k, I'd get a 2002 Z06 Corvette.



^You can't really lease a 9 year old car, and a Z06 in Detroit winters would not be fun.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Dec 13, 2011)

Or if you're into modding... get an older Maro or Tranny with low miles in great condish and mod away...


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## Mindcrime1204 (Dec 13, 2011)

Customisbetter said:


> ^You can't really lease a 9 year old car, and a Z06 in Detroit winters would not be fun.


 
It's pullin almost the same numbers as the 5.0 Stang in question.

But ya, we don't get winters here in San Antonio...I guess you'd figure everyone would be driving some muscle in the Motor City


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## pink freud (Dec 13, 2011)

All this car talk had me browsing sites.

When the hell did VW start tapping my conversations!? Yesterday I was lamenting that there weren't any AWD turbo hatchbacks, and then what do I find on VW's site?
2012 Volkswagen Golf R Photo Gallery | Volkswagen < Golf R

10K more than a GTI, but that is extremely tempting.


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## Customisbetter (Dec 13, 2011)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> It's pullin almost the same numbers as the 5.0 Stang in question.
> 
> But ya, we don't get winters here in San Antonio...I guess you'd figure everyone would be driving some muscle in the Motor City



Its not the power that the problem, with a manual you can get away with lack of traction. The problem lies in the height of the car. a Z06 would become a snow plow/pot hole fucker in Detroit.


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## Mendez (Dec 13, 2011)

pink freud said:


> All this car talk had me browsing sites.
> 
> When the hell did VW start tapping my conversations!? Yesterday I was lamenting that there weren't any AWD turbo hatchbacks, and then what do I find on VW's site?
> 2012 Volkswagen Golf R Photo Gallery | Volkswagen < Golf R
> ...



The subaru impreza wrx starts at 25.5K and its available in a hatchback version, also AWD turbo charged....just saying 

I think my first new car will be a subaru...



Customisbetter said:


> Its not the power that the problem, with a manual you can get away with lack of traction. The problem lies in the height of the car. a Z06 would become a snow plow/pot hole fucker in Detroit.



The thought of this ^ is hilarious 

Edit: Although the VW GTI are awesome as well


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## pink freud (Dec 13, 2011)

Mendez said:


> The subaru impreza wrx starts at 25.5K and its available in a hatchback version, also AWD turbo charged....just saying
> 
> I think my first new car will be a subaru...



To me, if it has four doors it's a station wagon, not a hatchback. The coolness of a car is inversely proportionate to how many doors it has.


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## troyguitar (Dec 13, 2011)

I wish there was an American competitor to the WRX/GTI. With my dad working at GM for 30+ years and me working at a supplier whose primary customers are Ford, GM, and Chrysler it's extremely difficult to consider buying something else. That's why I'm probably going for the big V8 - at least we make something in that class that is both a good car and a good value (i.e. Mustang GT or Corvette for the high rollers).

I'm working on financing this week for a black GT with the track package and 3.73 gearing, just what I need to get to work and back in the middle of winter!


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## Opeth666 (Dec 13, 2011)

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate! Fords! but mustang>camaro

I had to will myself to say that and im a huge chevy fan but the mustang is just overall built better now days and can now handle corners amazingly well! ever wonder why you never see any camaro's in sponsored drift competitions but you see mustangs? lol


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## Daiephir (Dec 13, 2011)

pink freud said:


> To me, if it has four doors it's a station wagon, not a hatchback. The coolness of a car is inversely proportionate to how many doors it has.



/Sigh, thats a station wagon: http://db.theautochannel.com//db/images/2000480630.jpg notice how the back end is elongated and stupid looking (the engine in those though was very good for a car in that price range)

thats a hatchback: http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/U/F/2/gj_11sti_hatch_rear.jpg


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## Mendez (Dec 13, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> /Sigh, thats a station wagon: http://db.theautochannel.com//db/images/2000480630.jpg notice how the back end is elongated and stupid looking (the engine in those though was very good for a car in that price range)
> 
> thats a hatchback: http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/U/F/2/gj_11sti_hatch_rear.jpg



Loving that hatchback 

Edit: Seems like subaru is separating the impreza and the wrx, so the new "wrx" might have only 2 doors and such. But enough of them subbies. A lil off topic


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## MrMcSick (Dec 13, 2011)

I understand where dude is coming from on the 4 door hatchback looking lame. 2 dr hatchback for me only. That VW is wayyy to much loot.


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## pink freud (Dec 13, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> /Sigh, thats a station wagon: http://db.theautochannel.com//db/images/2000480630.jpg notice how the back end is elongated and stupid looking (the engine in those though was very good for a car in that price range)
> 
> thats a hatchback: http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/U/F/2/gj_11sti_hatch_rear.jpg



It's subjective. I could just as easily go the other way and say that your first pic is a hatchback, and that THIS is a station wagon:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/1972_Chrysler_Town_&_Country.jpg


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## Daiephir (Dec 13, 2011)

Both are stations, look at how lenghty the back end is 
/debate


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## pink freud (Dec 13, 2011)

3rd Row Seating versus an extra two vertical feet of trunk space. Not the same.


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## Daiephir (Dec 13, 2011)

pink freud said:


> 3rd Row Seating versus an extra two vertical feet of trunk space. Not the same.



Ok, then, considering what you just said, why the fuck would you consider the subby a station? doesnt have 3rd row of seating.


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## pink freud (Dec 13, 2011)

Daiephir said:


> Ok, then, considering what you just said, why the fuck would you consider the subby a station? doesnt have 3rd row of seating.



Because I was exemplifying the extreme opposite of my position.


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## Bevo (Dec 13, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> I wish there was an American competitor to the WRX/GTI. With my dad working at GM for 30+ years and me working at a supplier whose primary customers are Ford, GM, and Chrysler it's extremely difficult to consider buying something else. That's why I'm probably going for the big V8 - at least we make something in that class that is both a good car and a good value (i.e. Mustang GT or Corvette for the high rollers).
> 
> I'm working on financing this week for a black GT with the track package and 3.73 gearing, just what I need to get to work and back in the middle of winter!




Dude, that's what beaters are for, save the car for the nice weather...don't even think of snow tires for that!


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## troyguitar (Dec 14, 2011)

Nah, why spend a bunch of money for a good car only to drive a shit car for 3-6 months out of the year?


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## troyguitar (Dec 14, 2011)

So... after a few days of dealing with several banks, a few credit unions, and 3 different Ford dealers trying to get a worthwhile deal (I have mediocre credit but a good job and little debt) I ended up not getting anything better than an offer for 10% interest with $5000 down.

On a whim I stopped at the VW dealer after work today to drive a GTI. The people there bent over backwards to get me in one. The finance manager and salesperson both stayed over an hour after closing time to work out a deal with me that didn't involve paying interest out the ass. Drove home tonight in a new GTI, 4-door manual in blue. 

Moral of the story: If you want to sell something to somebody, make a fucking effort


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## Mordacain (Dec 14, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> So... after a few days of dealing with several banks, a few credit unions, and 3 different Ford dealers trying to get a worthwhile deal (I have mediocre credit but a good job and little debt) I ended up not getting anything better than an offer for 10% interest with $5000 down.
> 
> On a whim I stopped at the VW dealer after work today to drive a GTI. The people there bent over backwards to get me in one. The finance manager and salesperson both stayed over an hour after closing time to work out a deal with me that didn't involve paying interest out the ass. Drove home tonight in a new GTI, 4-door manual in blue.
> 
> Moral of the story: If you want to sell something to somebody, make a fucking effort



Awesome man! Congrats on the new ride. Honestly I think you made the right choice anyway, the GTI is overall a nicer ride, better engineering, tons of fun to drive and like all Volkswagons, reliable as hell.


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## Bevo (Dec 14, 2011)

Sweet!

Post up some pictures when you get a chance!

Beaters have a purpose, once you see your sweet new car covered with salt and all those little chips you may think otherwise.

Either way congrats on the new ride!


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## Daiephir (Dec 14, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> Awesome man! Congrats on the new ride. Honestly I think you made the right choice anyway, the GTI is overall a nicer ride, better engineering, tons of fun to drive and like all Volkswagons, reliable as hell.



Yeah, except for the ones built in mexico between 2003 and 2008 (I think, not sure)  and dont forget that actually repairing it if something breaks is a pain, since it's german, otherwise, congrats


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## troyguitar (Dec 14, 2011)

^I should note, though, that anyone who says the GTI is fast hasn't driven a car that's actually fast. It's faster than the Chevy Sonic, but is not even close to a V6 Mustang let alone a V8.


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## MikeH (Dec 15, 2011)

You can find aftermarket VW parts literally everywhere. I wouldn't be too worried about it. I also just talked to a mechanic who has a 2006 GTI with 401HP to the front wheels. With a little money, they can be actually fast.

Congrats, though.


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## MUTANTOID (Dec 15, 2011)

For the 25K price tag, I would rather have an awesome older car. I drive a classic car and the only thing I worry about is it getting stolen.


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## Customisbetter (Dec 15, 2011)

Where are the goddamn pictures man!?!?!


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## pink freud (Dec 15, 2011)

MikeH said:


> You can find aftermarket VW parts literally everywhere. I wouldn't be too worried about it. I also just talked to a mechanic who has a 2006 GTI with 401HP to the front wheels. With a little money, they can be actually fast.
> 
> Congrats, though.



400 HP to the _front_ wheels sounds like a detriment, to me.

Hell, I have problems with torque steer as it is, and I drive a _Yaris_


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## troyguitar (Dec 15, 2011)

Customisbetter said:


> Where are the goddamn pictures man!?!?!



Been dark and raining ever since I got the car, except for a couple hours this afternoon but I work all day


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## uncle_sprinter (Dec 16, 2011)

1967 Shelby GT500 mustang owns.


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