# Sol Niger Within/Fredrik Thordendal`s Special Defects Thread



## Iamasingularity (Jan 11, 2012)

This is a thread to celebrate the most epic/ahead of its time album (IMO)
I will be posting videos and stuff related to the album. Feel free to express your thoughts or ask questions. Not for the faint hearted.

Here`s the first whole album:


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## SpecialDefects5150 (Jan 11, 2012)

This album is really a gem, I love it so much. I jam out to the first couple tunes on it all the time. However, it's really hard to find a good sounding copy online, and i'm lucky I found the links to the Version 3.33 @320kbps when I did. Anyway, awesome album, can't wait for the new one. 2012 is going to be a good year for music.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 11, 2012)

Yeah theses guys are awesome. cant wait for the new album.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 11, 2012)

Here`s some tasty videos of them working on the 1st one and then the 2nd:


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## Lukifer (Jan 11, 2012)

So many tasty riffs. I don't remember what song it was but it was just fantastic. I need to hear the whole album!!!!


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 11, 2012)

Lukifer said:


> So many tasty riffs. I don't remember what song it was but it was just fantastic. I need to hear the whole album!!!!



Its in the 1st post, just for your pleasure.


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## DLG (Jan 11, 2012)

one the best albums ever recorded


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## Lukifer (Jan 11, 2012)

I saw that! Thanks for doing that! When I get home I'm going to listen to every track!


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## Cnev (Jan 11, 2012)

DLG said:


> one the best albums ever recorded



Absolutely. Mindbogglingly stunning album and IMO solidified Thordendal as one of the most brilliant musical visionaries of our time.


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## splinter8451 (Jan 11, 2012)

Album is amazing, I got really heavily into it 2 years ago. There are so many good riffs and leads.

2 needs to come out sometime.


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## Somnium (Jan 11, 2012)

Special Defects 2 in 2012 would be awesome but pretty sure it's not gonna happen.


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 11, 2012)

I can't really get into Meshuggah, but this album I can dig. His writing is so much more interesting and actually entertaining.


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## IAMLORDVADER (Jan 11, 2012)

I love this vid. the tone, the riffs just an awesome performance. 
Also that intro riff is like a brick to the chest


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## cGoEcYk (Jan 11, 2012)

I was blown away when I found out this was from ~1998. The first time I ran across this was in 2005 and I thought it was way ahead of _that_ time!

Awesome album.


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## Lukifer (Jan 11, 2012)

IAMLORDVADER said:


> I love this vid. the tone, the riffs just an awesome performance.
> Also that intro riff is like a brick to the chest




Thats the song I heard the first time!! So far its the only one I have heard and it blew my fucking mind! Intense!!! But that will all change because Im about to listen to the whole album! 

Also could anyone tell what kind of amp he was using in the video??? Line 6 Vetta????


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## IAMLORDVADER (Jan 11, 2012)

im guessing so, or his mesa mabye?


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## leftyguitarjoe (Jan 11, 2012)

I love this album

Except for the vocals. Sorry, but they're awful.


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## Lukifer (Jan 11, 2012)

IAMLORDVADER said:


> im guessing so, or his mesa mabye?



Never knew Thordendal used a Mesa. Thought he always used pods and such.


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## Blasphemer (Jan 11, 2012)

This album is a masterpiece. I'm so excited for the second...

And for anybody on facebook...
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2448214884289


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## Somnium (Jan 11, 2012)

Pretty sure he is using the Vetta. I read somewhere that on all of their stuff they used some Line 6 head and the built-in effects and such until using the Axe Fx for ObZen.


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## IAMLORDVADER (Jan 11, 2012)

im pretty sure all or at least most of meshuggahs albums have been a mesa in the studio, I cant find the list of studio gear that floats around every so often but that has some cool details on it


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## IAMLORDVADER (Jan 11, 2012)

*What about amps and effects?* 
HAGSTROM: In the studio we both use Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier heads. Our live gear set-ups are completely different, though.

Meshuggah Share the Secrets of Their Sound | Guitar World

Fredrik loves the mesa and a neuman u87 for in the studio


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## Lukifer (Jan 11, 2012)

Never knew that. Cool shit. I would really love to know his live setup!


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 11, 2012)

Somnium said:


> Special Defects 2 in 2012 would be awesome but pretty sure it's not gonna happen.



As I mentioned in the Meshuggah thread, Fredrik said it wouldn't be out for a couple of years most likely. He's not rushing it. Meshuggah is his priority.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

To answer what gear Fredrik uses in the TRUM video, its a marshall amp setup, with the logo removed from the head. Thats why it looks a bit wierd. I`m pretty sure its an old JCM800/Marshall Valve State stack, judging by its looks. In Sol Niger within he uses the MESA/BOOGIE and Valve State together to create his sound. His current gear since Obzen is supposed to be the axefx`s going into stacks in really messed up ways. He has used pod-pro racks before Obzen. If you`ve seen records of their old rig, its fucking insane. This is his current electronic library: 

M E S H U G G A H - T h e . O f f i c i a l . W e b s i t e


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## Eaten (Jan 12, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> To answer what gear Fredrik uses in the TRUM video, its a marshall amp setup, with the logo removed from the head. Thats why it looks a bit wierd. I`m pretty sure its an old JCM800/Marshall Valve State stack, judging by its looks. In Sol Niger within he uses the MESA/BOOGIE and Valve State together to create his sound. His current gear since Obzen is supposed to be the axefx`s going into stacks in really messed up ways. He has used pod-pro racks before Obzen. If you`ve seen records of their old rig, its fucking insane. This is his current electronic library:
> 
> M E S H U G G A H - T h e . O f f i c i a l . W e b s i t e



Wasn't he using Line 6 for a while as well?


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Morgan Agren still has Sol Niger Within, 15 years later:



Even Meshuggah`s ex bassist got Sol Niger Within:



For those who do not know, Sol Niger means Black sun, thus Sol Niger Within.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Eaten said:


> Wasn't he using Line 6 for a while as well?



Yes, I listed that as well. The Pod-pro is a product of Line6, so is the Vetta 2 head Fredrik and Dick Lovegren use.


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## DLG (Jan 12, 2012)

that marshall tone >>>


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## IAMLORDVADER (Jan 12, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> To answer what gear Fredrik uses in the TRUM video, its a marshall amp setup, with the logo removed from the head. Thats why it looks a bit wierd. I`m pretty sure its an old JCM800/Marshall Valve State stack, judging by its looks.



where did you find the info about the trum vid?

also heres some links to his gear:
http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-pla...drik-thordendal-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment


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## Dayn (Jan 12, 2012)

One of the best albums I've heard that I can listen to all the way through. Even with that horrifying shriek.

When my mother first heard this album, the first thing she said upon hearing his vocals was 'Vincent Price?'


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

IAMLORDVADER said:


> where did you find the info about the trum vid?



In a swedish interview about his gear in Sol Niger Within and by looking at the video. 

Here`s the swedish interview:

Fredrik Tordendahls Special Defects

Here`s the translated version by Elmface on the tandjent forums:

Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects

Fredrik Thordendal is most known as the guitarist of northern-swedish band Meshuggah. On the first release, that came out in 1989, you could hear his typical style which combines a hard rhytmic attack with a floating melodyplaying in the vein of Allan Holdsworth.

Now it's 1997 and Fredrik releases his first soloalbum, "Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects" on the Härnösand-recordcompany UAE, Ultimate Audio Entertainment. The album's only song "Sol Niger Within" is 43 minutes and 25 seconds long. About 40 minutes too long for Kaj Kindvall and the swedish radio. I call Fredrik in Umeå and start the interview by asking what he and the recordcompany is commercially expecting for the release.

-This is exactly what I want to do, he quickly replies. I want to provoke and do something different. Why shouldn't you do something that you really want to do?

The album is a typical ADAT-production made by Fredrik himself. He borrowed most of the recording-equipment and looked for suitable places to record in. He mention Morgan Ågren with graditude, who loaned him the ADAT-taperecorder for a year.

-We recorded the drums in Morgan's brother Jimmy's garage, we went to the citychurch of Umeå to record the churchorgan and I recorded the guitars in my apartment. The only studiorecording on the album is a friend who's screaming like hell on a seperate track.

A question that constantly comes up in the back of the head when you listen to "Special Defects" is in which order everything was recorded. All 43 minutes melts together like a yourney and yet you know that it's recording here and there. In the part where Mats Öberg is going mad on the churchorgan, Morgan Ågren plays incredible. Without ever playing "normal" he follows the organ to 100%. It's really hard to imagine that the drums were recorded afterwards.

-Yes, I'm very happy and flattered that these incredible musicians wanted to help me, Fredrik replies. Just for the drums I used five ADAD-taperecorders which I then mixed down to eight channels on a machine. I used 24 microphones for the drums and recorded both heads on the toms.

But we will take it from the beginning. In January -96 Fredrik borrowed a ADAT and began creating the song with the help of a drummachine. He put on bass with the help of a Roland R5 and put the different parts on the ADAT-tape.

-I can't write down music as ideas, I must hear what I'm doing, he explains. Not before it sounds really good, I'm satisfied and can go on with my work. During the demowork I fell in love with this Roland-bass so I saved all the patterns in the sequencer and made a recordingtape with a clicktrack, bass and demorecorded guitars. Morgan played drums along with that and after that I recorded the guitars "for real".

During a phase of the work Fredrik had 20 videotapes with recordings in his apartment. That means a total of 160 channels which he then mixed down to three tapes to do the final mix.

-The worst part was when the tomtape broke, he remember. I had been going on for 12 hours to adjust noise gates for the drums and then the tape broke. Because it was a ampextape, which lacks the little split pin, I had to rip it all apart to be able to get the tape out of it. After that I slaughtered a cassett in my moviecollection and put the tomtape in it. I was very lucky because it worked and I was able to make a backup.

It is always interesting to hear how a musician has found his personal style and I serve Fredrik the standardquestion about influences and listening to music.

-I don't really listen to alot of music, he confess. But if I sometime put an album on it's Allan Holdsworth. I think he's a guitarist that has everything. A totally own style, beautiful chords and an incredible soundcontrol. I'm also very interested in sounds and when I heard Holdsworth for the first time I decided that I also should find that sound. I spent every penny on the kind of equipment he uses. When I could afford a Mesa Boogie 50 Caliber Plus I was getting close. But if you're going to play with the same sound as Holdsworth you also have to learn his hitting- and legatotechnic. He uses the whammy bar alot to get tones from below and from above and I like that, it sounds so sad. But the thing I like the most about his playing is that it doesn't sound too much "guitarish". I'm so sick of hearing the old usual pentatonic scales.

In the beginning of the album Fredrik plays a solo that sounds like an animalsound. But he got that sound by processing the recording afterwards.

-I used my old ADA delay again och was sitting and turning the knobs. When you change the delaytime the pitch is affected just when you turn the knob.

One effect that Fredrik probably is the only person on the earth to use is a breath controller for a guitar amplifier. Normally you use it for a synth and it changes the blowing in the mouthpiece to MIDI data. Fredrik got some help to rebuild it so it could control an analog volumecontrol.

-When I ordered it from a technician my though was to be able to change the volume dynamic and get a "saxophonic" sound, but that doesn't work in the current version. I have a new going on which will also change the tone. If you blow harder, the sound is supposed to get both louder and sharper. One funny thing I discovered is that if you scream into the breath controller you get a frequencyerror in the guitarsound. That's a mystery since it's only supposed to change the volume.

You can hear the breath controller on the album on some parts when the guitar is playing a simple staccato rhythm with muted strings without tones. Fredrik means that it's the breath controller that makes the sound so extremely dry and mute.

On his solo album, Fredrik only used his (Mesa) Boogie amplifier. With Meshuggah, he doubles with a Marshall Valvestate Stereo to get the "djent" in the power chords.

Fredrik Thordendal has built a soundproof coffer in which he puts a guitar cabinet and a recording microphone. That's probably the explanation to why he has been working for a year to record metal guitars in an apartment.
The guitar Fredrik is using is an older model of Ibanez Universe with seven strings.

-It's the world's worst guitar, Fredrik exclaims. I totally hate it, but I have to play sevenstringed because it's so powerful to be able to reach a low B note. Earlier, I have been playing on V-guitars and I've been able to reach the highest notes perfectly. On the Ibanez, I often hit the guitar with my hand when I'm playing high notes on the high E-string. I'm always looking for a new sevenstringed guitar that's better, but it's hard to find one with a good whammy bar system.

The strings that Fredrik plays on are usual 0.009 boomers with an additional seventh string(0.052). He says that he really would like to play on even thinner strings if it was possible.

-There's easy a small inferno with too strings, says Fredrik. But I really like the sound you get with thinner strings. I read an interview with Holdsworth where he said the he would like to get used to playing with thicker strings. I can totally understand that because he uses 0.008 to 0.032 strings. 0.032 is like a thin A-string!

Fredrik has never really cared about experimenting with different settings on the strings height(distance to fretboard and pickups) but he thinks that the strings on his Ibanez are relative high.

-People that tries my guitar usually say that they have to stand on the strings to be able to press the against the fretboard, he says and laughs. I've never had the time to really check that out properly, but as soon as I have the time I'll sit down and try out the best string setup.

An effect that Fredrik's using for clean sound is a TC Sustainer. His favourite is the mentioned ADA delay that he's using for most things.

-One effect that I really like is pitch shifter/harmonizer, he tells. I want to add an octave and put some delay on top to get a stringlike sound. I'm experimenting with it, but due to shortage of time I wasn't able to use it on this album.

"Sol Niger Within" is characterized by an atmosphere that reminds alot of the movie 2001 (A Space Odyssey, based on the novel by Arthur C. Clarke). Not very much the parts of the film where the director has used waltzes by Richard Strauss but rather the scenes to diabolical choirs signed Gyrögy Ligeti. I mention this to Fredrik and he starts talking about it right away.

-2001... That's exactly what I'm after! A fantastic movie... As I said, I don't listen to much that to other music, so almost all of my inspiration comes from movies I've seen. I'm a UFO-freak and enjoy movies like X-files, Twin Peaks and Burroughs' "The Naked Lunch".

Even though Fuzz is a guitar magazine and this is not a review we have to talk about the lyrics on Fredrik's album because of the reason that they are so special and an important part of the whole album.
Petter Marklund has been responsable for the lyric/text material. He has put together different outtakes from many authors, added his lyrics, and has created sort of an antology that follows the musical journey. You could say that he has destillated a common zero point with Pentti Saarikoski, Zenphilosophy, Dante Aligheri, Samuel Beckett, Marquis de Sade, Hermann Hesse, Oscar Wilde, Plato, William S. Burroughs and a few more..

Fredrik tells that the original thought was that Tomas Haake, drummer in Meshuggah, would be writing the lyrics. It showed that he couldn't do it, due to the fact that he was working on material for Meshuggah at the same time.

-We had this idea that the record would describe a person's journey through psychosis, Fredrik tells. But with an alternativ perspective of what a psychosis is. Petter Marklund has his own theory on how everything in the universe is built and through this psychosis you can go along and see what he sees, which is true. A close friend to me experienced a stresspsychosis for a period of two months, but could tell exactly what he had experienced afterwards. The society sees psychosis as a state of sickness, but I'm not sure if it's that simple. What if it's the exact opposite, that the state of psychosis is an opening to a bigger reality. It's interesting that everyone that has experienced a psychosis tells about similar experiences. (Here the interviewer wants to recommend the book "Express to Paradise"(not sure of the title, this is the direct translation from swedish to english) by Mark Vonnegut, that is exactly the kind of story that Fredrik is talking about.)

Fredrik Thordendal is singing the lyrics in a way that makes you think of hell's devils. If you call the singing in traditional death "growling", Fredrik's vocals would be something like "hiss-vocals".

-That's also and idea I've had for a long time, Fredrik tells. To do the vocals extremely rhytmical with extreme overtones. I was able to get the sound with my old ADA stereodelay when I had extreme chorusvibrato that was different on left and right channel and only had distortion in the middle.

Has Fredrik plans to play this music live and does he have any ideas on which musicians that would be a part of it?

-I doubt that there's any interest among concert arrangers. I see the record as the final document where everything's just right. To play live is just a thing you do because it's fun. If you compare an album to a movie, the movie/album is the interesting thing. If you've shot/recorded a movie, you don't go around and play the script like theater!


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## Repner (Jan 12, 2012)

A second Special Defects album?? Hell yes!!!


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## Blasphemer (Jan 12, 2012)

Does anybody know where I can get a hold of the original version? I've looked everywhere, but its been out of print for ages. I have the 3.33 remix, but I want the original, as well.


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## DLG (Jan 12, 2012)

keeping an eye on ebay is the best thing you can do I think


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Blasphemer said:


> Does anybody know where I can get a hold of the original version? I've looked everywhere, but its been out of print for ages. I have the 3.33 remix, but I want the original, as well.



My store has the original, if your willing to buy it for 350$s, lol.


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## Lukifer (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow singulairity good info! 

I thought I read in a Guitar World inteview when Chaos Sphere came out that Live they ran Pods direct. That they didnt fuck with amps and micing and all that. But that may have been just at tat point in time.


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## Doug N (Jan 12, 2012)

Lukifer said:


> Wow singulairity good info!
> 
> But that may have been just at tat point in time.


 
I think it's spelled "dat" point in time.

Groundbreaking album though, I still can't believe it's as old as it is.


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## Lukifer (Jan 12, 2012)

Doug N said:


> I think it's spelled "dat" point in time.
> 
> Groundbreaking album though, I still can't believe it's as old as it is.



Good call my bad! Dat point in time yo


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## mphsc (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm late, but thanks for the info. I want this album.


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## sol niger 333 (Jan 12, 2012)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> I love this album
> 
> Except for the vocals. Sorry, but they're awful.



Well I feel somewhat obliged to comment here. Username being what it is haha. I love the vocals!! Nothing but sheer insanity would fit that music and that is what they have done!! Imagine if they had some whiny djent vocalist with a high pitched voice doing scales. Would be instantly lame. Also check out Fredriks wife losing her fucking mind screaming while they all crack up laughing. Awesome 

The creative freedom and moods on this record still outweigh a lot of Meshuggahs recent work imo. Could be a nostalgia thing but this record is VERY special to me. Mushrooms+Sol Niger Within 


Also I had a chat a while ago to Fredrik himself and Devin Townsend will be doing some vocal spots for the next sol niger. Shit on my head


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## willow (Jan 12, 2012)

I picked up a '97 print off ebay for £10. Pretty stoked. I prefer the remix version though personally... those organs are just a bit too creepy for me.

The vocals just add to the albums sinister feel. It truly sounds like the music I'd expect to hear whilst entering the gates of hell 

Can't wait for the new record! Now that they're done with the new Meshuggah I imagine we could expect a release sometime next year once they're done touring?


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## DLG (Jan 12, 2012)

I have the original print because I'm old but I let a dude borrow it 8 years ago and he still hasn't given it back to me


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## exxecutor (Jan 12, 2012)

My favourite album of all time. Nuff said


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

DLG said:


> I have the original print because I'm old but I let a dude borrow it 8 years ago and he still hasn't given it back to me



Dude, get it back because that thing is rare as fuck.

To people that don`t like the vocals on the Album, of course you`re entitled to your opinion, but the whole purpose of the screaming/vocals was to accompany the concept of the album. Which is a Psychonaut`s journey and his views on reality that is distorted by his state, and some ET references.


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## great_kthulu (Jan 13, 2012)

some strange stuff to be sure, but I dig it!


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