# Starting to actually get into running



## Origin

I've been flirting with going running since about the ass-end of last winter, going about 3km (with numerous walking stops) every few nights. I also started reshaping my diet to include no fast food/pop/etc. In the past 3/4 of a year I've flaked on it a lot, got back into it, flaked, took a break for two weeks at a time, etc. and never made much progress.

Last month or two I've been forcing myself to go regularly, and even extended my route to 5k, but I would still stop often to walk and huff and puff, especially in the recent heat wave. A few nights ago coinciding with the nicely dropping temperature and partly due to my 24/7 green tea BINGE, I finally got my first personal milestone down of going 5 kilometers without stopping or walking at any point. And tonight I did it again.  

Full-time school and work make it kinda a bitch, but it feels great to be improving and actually committing to losing the small amount of weight I want to lose/replace with muscle and drastically improving my cardio health. (I'm only 20 but fuck it)


TL;DR Anyone have any tips or experiences to share pertaining to getting into more advanced/extended running? I know I'm barely at the tip of the iceberg, but I want to get to 10k in the next year or so.

Thanks dudes


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## MaxOfMetal

I remember awhile back there was a similar thread to this. Tiger (SSO's fitness guru of such) gave the recommendation of going to a "real" shoe store and getting a premium pair of running shoes professionally fit for optimum comfort and ergonomics. Some places will apparently tape your feet running on a treadmill to help analyze what shoes fit you best. Something I never would have thought up, but makes tons of sense.


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## FretWizard88

Dude, running is AMAZING! (Never thought I would say that) I was like you, I started running short distances and was off and on. When spring came around, I was determined to keep at it. I began running four miles every day to every other day, and I just fell in love with it. Not only do you feel good about yourself, but you feel a lot better physically as well. 

Hope you keep up with it man.


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## Origin

I've been going every couple days as muh schedule allows. It's been getting easier and easier to do. Except my hips and legs still kill the day after.  Still,  I might start going my 3k route on the days I can't go all 5 cause of doing assignments/shifts and shit just to do SOMETHING. 

So far so good though.


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## ivancic1al

If you search proper running posture/breathing, it makes your runs a lot less terrible I've found. If you start to feel like shit, try finding a breathing rhythm in through your nose,out through your mouth. It helps more than you think. Might be old news, but it's really simple and a lot pf people aren't really aware of it I've found. Best of luck to you!


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## thraxil

I run 5-10k every day to every other day. I've recently gotten my girlfriend to start running with me too.

Consistency is more important than getting your distance up for now. Keep with running every other day or so until you're not feeling sore the next day. Then try to get out every single day. Keep the distance short enough that you aren't injuring yourself. Distance can come later with time. What you want is for it to turn into a habit kind of like showering where, if you haven't gone for a run that day, you'll feel uncomfortable like something's missing.

Personally, I really prefer to run early in the morning. There are fewer other people out to get in the way, it's usually cooler, it's easier to run on an empty stomach, and it's a nice wakeup. I can roll out of bed, run for an hour, take a shower and feel like I've already accomplished something for the day. 

Also: drink a ton of water. Most people are mildly dehydrated most of the time. Being well hydrated is very important to feeling good when you run.


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## Krankguitarist

Good form and posture is really important while running...not only does it make your runs easier, it also helps to prevent injury.

Good shoes are an important factor as well. Here's a good rundown:

How to Choose Running Shoes!

For instance, I overpronate a little and have relatively low arches. I used to use a cushioned trainer for running, and those...well...didn't work out too well for me. I'm using a stability shoe now, and it makes doing my interval sprints MUCH more enjoyable. I'm a fan of new balances, but there are plenty of companies out there that make good shoes.

Also, if you ever feel like you're getting bored with distance running, try changing up your routine with interval sprints. Makes for a shorter, more intense workout.


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## meisterjager

There's an awesome 1.1 mile (1.7km) run I used to do when I was fit (mid-teens). I used to do 2 laps of that every other day, then the first time I sat and mapped out a 3.7 mile (6km), I despised doing it, and got so bored doing laps of the short route that I just stopped doing it.

I'd love to take it up now I'm not quite so ADD about life  Don't reckon my knees would like me for doing it now I'm about 16st, 6'1".

So, yeah.. I envy you!


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## thraxil

You're stretching after runs, right? Stretching beforehand when your muscles are cold is pointless, but afterwards it's essential and will go a long ways towards preventing injury and making you less sore the next day.


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## Scar Symmetry

I've got back into it as well, I'm feeling fitter than ever


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## Origin

I'm stretching both before and after but if before is useless then I can ditch it I guess haha. The hydration thing is a no-brainer but I appreciate the push since I haven't been taking a bottle with me or anything. I'll start of course. I have a really nice pair of Asics I use, so there's no worries there; my feet have very pronounced (off the ground ) arches, and they feel absolutely fine after running...love Asics  My legs have been firming and I'm a little less spaghetti-legged after each one 

And I'll definitely look into the breathing and posture, I appreciate that.


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## techcoreriffman

3rd year xc runner here 
One thing you HAVE to remember, is to warmup, and then stretch, BEFORE a run, and then, you need to cool down at least a mile AND THEN STRETCH afterwards. Or you will hurt and possibly develop a chronic injury.

Something else is to make sure your back is straight, and that you have good arm movement and leg lift. Also, breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth, in a controlled way. If you're going on a long, easy-paced run, and your breathing is ragged, you are going too fast.

If you want to really step up, you can have a schedule of hard-easy-hard days, that's what my team does. My schedule is usually Monday: 800 meter repeats (generally 6), Tuesday: Long run (6-7 miles, plus warm-up/cool-down) Wednesday: 200 yard hill repeats (12-16), Thursday: long recovery run (5-6 miles, plus warm-up/cool-down), Friday: 400m repeats (12-18), Saturday: Extremely easy day, 3 miles, Sunday: Long run, 6 ish miles.

Something else to remember is to have a good diet. Eating like shit will make you feel like shit.
Hope I helped/ shed some light on something


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## rvoteary

You'll be doing 10 way before another year goes by


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## Origin

rvoteary said:


> You'll be doing 10 way before another year goes by



You could just go on msn and tell me that


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## Krankguitarist

There's been some studies on static stretching before exercise in the past 10 years, and it seems that it might not be as beneficial as previously thought. In fact, some reports claim that it can destabilize your muscle fibers, making them less prepared for exercise.

If you ask me: it's probably a good idea to skip the static stretches in your warm up. That means the stretches where you hold a position for 10-30 counts or so. Ditch 'em. Try dynamic stretches instead: lunges, torso twists, side bends, arm circles, etc. Just work through your whole range of motion.


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## BrutalExorcist

I'll probably have about 30 people attempting to stab me with spears for saying this, but as expensive as it is, check out getting a heart rate monitor watch. Definitely look for one which reads from a monitor strapped around your middle torso, and preferably use one which will convert your heart rate into percentage of your maximum heart rate. I use an Timex Ironman Road Trainer, and at first I worried that I was blowing $102 on a fancy piece of bloated crap, but it's helped me quit my overtraining-undertraining spiral and more methodically plan my runs. It also helped me get through my first trial 20K run a couple days ago in a long time by alerting me I pretty much used up my carbohydrate reserves on the last few miles, so I dropped back to my Zone 2 (60-70% MHR, fat burning zone) to get through the rest of the run.

Do you NEED one? Nope, not at all. It's more of a Cadillac vs Chevy comparison than a Cadillac vs Schwinn Bicycle one.


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## mmr007

try doing the long distance every other day...and between those days do wind sprints as fast as possible. you could just go out on your street and run 40 meters, walk back, then run it again....do that about 30-40 times. One, you get to rest (briefly) but sprinting burns more fat than jogging, also, after stretching your muscles for sprinting, jogging will feel easier.

If the terrain allows, try jogging up hills over and over...that is a great workout for calves and strenghtens them for flat running

take aleve....seriously....not tylenol...just aleve...that shit is like morphine for your muscles. if you are still sore the next day take a few aleve and you'll be good to go


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## thraxil

I'll second the heartrate monitor recommendation. I don't use mine anymore but they're great for learning to pace yourself. When you're starting out and don't have a good sense of how your body reacts to running it's really easy to start out running way too hard and burn yourself out early.


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## Origin

I'll keep the monitor in mind, but so far I'm not straining myself very hard; I feel great afterwards, only my hips tend to be sore for a day or two, and not nearly enough to make me not able to run again.  no marathons yet for me.  I'll see if my dad has some kind of monitor (casual runner too) laying around since I don't really want to budget it at the moment with tuition and the 8 getting built nagging at me, but the pacing aspect does interest me a lot. 

Had a brief antsy period where I hadn't run for 3 days straight; kept doing things/hanging out later towards the night and using the 'ehn' excuse. Decided to piss myself off and force myself to go while in a state of lethargy after work today. Worked  going to try and step up to at least every other day to shake off the ehns.


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## matty2fatty

Go find 'The Running Room's' training programs. I did it last spring for something to do, and went from 3 or 4 km runs to up to 18kms at a time, and feeling great the whole way through. The program is spread out over 4 months. 

You'll be amazed at the progress you can make. I only loosely followed the program and still drank and smoked on the weekends, and still made great gains


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## Origin

18?!? Fuck! I'll look into it, thanks.


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## MFB

I'm currently doing about 1.5 miles a day at the gym, but I do it at resistance level 3 (not quite sure what that'd be like in real terrain) and surprisingly I made the same time as when I was in 8th grade. Not sure what to think about that


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## matty2fatty

Origin said:


> 18?!? Fuck! I'll look into it, thanks.



Yeah man. After a certain point its more mental than anything, you just resign yourself to do it. I have a friend training for a full marathon right now, he needs to run 36km on Sunday as part of his training


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## Origin

MFB said:


> I'm currently doing about 1.5 miles a day at the gym, but I do it at resistance level 3 (not quite sure what that'd be like in real terrain) and surprisingly I made the same time as when I was in 8th grade. Not sure what to think about that



I'm not sure either, I run around my town and there's varying inclines and terrain. Some of it is just fucking annoying.  Well...in 8th grade I couldn't run a block without spitting up and falling over, so you already have an edge on me  I haven't tried going for a specific time yet but I'd probably do badly haha.


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## Origin

Retaining consistency of every other day (or 3 if I get buttfucked by obligations); route is becoming increasingly easy  Hooray! N shit


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## Bevo

Good post!
Work is so busy that I can't make my hockey games nor go to the gym. Getting up 30 min earlier to go for a run is a great idea.

A great tip is to not stop when your out of breath but slow down, you catch your breath and get back to your pace.


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## Skyblue

Say guys, as someone that has to run to be able to pass PE in school (yeah, it sucks >.> we need to run 2 km, 3 km, and 6 km.... passing time on 2 km is 10 minutes, can't remember the rest) I wanted to ask- do you guy run with music on? or without? I was randomly asking some guys and got very mixed results. 

I should get off of my lazy ass and start running, and I'm wondering if I can take music with me or will it just interfere..


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## Guitarmiester

I don't see how listening to music will interfere with running, unless you're a total spaz. 

I recently got back into running every day. For the first few weeks I ran without my iPod, and today I decided to run with my iPod. It's probably that today has been warmer than the past few weeks, but I ran much further than usual without feeling the need to slow down to a fast walk even once. 

Just don't have the volume up too loud. You still need to be aware of your surroundings.


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## ivancic1al

^This. Running with music that has a decent;y upbeat tempo has helped me not notice how far I'm running--I can go longer without feeling bored, tired, or generally pissed off at the run  If you can make a playlist with songs that will get you pumped up toward toe beginning and end of your runs, so you have something to look forward to and keep you interested. Or, try running with someone else if possible. It's nice to have someone to push the pace, and call you out once you start being a little bitch and complaining


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## Guitarmiester

The music really does keep your mind off of your "_checkpoints_" and seeing how much further you still need to go.

*WARNING:* Listening to metal while running may result in furious footwork and/or a mobile, one-man mosh.


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## Origin

Necroupdate

Kept it up past Christmas and a little onward, then the really cold-ass temperatures hit and I got food poisoning right afterwards and lost 5 or 10 pounds from that. Had a bit of a lazy hiatus afterwards, then started dragging myself out to get back into it. I'm back to my 5ks without stopping, but obviously I'm going to need to improve to make up for that fairy little goddamn dry spell. 

Thanks for the advice as always guys  haha


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## rvoteary

I'm still having a hell of a time with the cold XD plus Friday night some dumb bitch broke my tailbone


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## Bevo

Ouch, been there done that..did you get the blow up donut to sit on?
If not get one, its gay but takes all the preasure off your bone.

I have been running steady 5 work days a week, I found a gym close to my office and go at lunch. If I am on the road my gear is in the car, lots of nice place to run if you look for it.

Also running different places makes your body work differently, I realy think the body gets used to the same thing all the time even a long run.


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## Guitarmiester

All of this snow has been getting in the way of my running schedule. I've actually grown to enjoy running almost every day and get pissed when I can't due to the snow. 

Origin, do you find the cold weather to work against you in some way? I find it to be refreshing and prefer it over running in warm/hot weather since I sweat easily. 



Bevo said:


> I have been running steady 5 work days a week, I found a gym close to my office and go at lunch. If I am on the road my gear is in the car, lots of nice place to run if you look for it.
> 
> Also running different places makes your body work differently, I realy think the body gets used to the same thing all the time even a long run.



That's a pretty good idea to drive to new places to run. I'm going to start doing the same, thanks for that. I've heard others highly recommend creating new routes and running in new areas for the same reason you mentioned. It may sound crazy, but it's true. Not only does the route become boring, but it seems like your body really does adapt to that area.


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## ivancic1al

Guitarmiester said:


> *WARNING:* Listening to metal while running may result in furious footwork and/or a mobile, one-man mosh.



Guilty of that. My fellow swim teammates always look at me whenever I listen to Mastodon while running or something similar. Apparently I start run/moshing all the time and waste loads of energy. 

Oh well, it's entertaining at least. Keep up the runs guys!


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## Guitarmiester

I sometimes do a little bit of head banging if a heavier song comes on. I'm sure it probably looks like I'm collapsing with every step.


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## ivancic1al

Sure makes staying on form hard as fuck.


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## Origin

Guitarmiester said:


> Origin, do you find the cold weather to work against you in some way? I find it to be refreshing and prefer it over running in warm/hot weather since I sweat easily.



It's not the cold as much as the retarded cold, for example -25C with windchill which is common right now here. I can do up to -10 without giving much of a shit, but yeah. When my nostrils are freezing inside it's kinda hard for me to do anything.  Snow just pisses me right off, I love winter but I fucking hate snow. It's useless and screws everyone, goddamn I hate people who like it when it snows.

I'm with you on the summer thing, I sweat my ASS off in summer. I was doing a temp job in a factory where temperatures were 40C with humidex all day and I was dripping within 5 minutes haha. Winter's the only season that compensates for my body heat.


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## ivancic1al

^ Yeah, as long as it's not -30 with the wind chill and there's not much snow on the ground, I love running in the cold. It feels "crisper". the humidity in the summer, fuck that shit. So I guess Autumn would be the ideal season to run then.


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## Guitarmiester

Origin said:


> It's not the cold as much as the retarded cold, for example -25C with windchill which is common right now here. I can do up to -10 without giving much of a shit, but yeah. When my nostrils are freezing inside it's kinda hard for me to do anything.  Snow just pisses me right off, I love winter but I fucking hate snow. It's useless and screws everyone, goddamn I hate people who like it when it snows.
> 
> I'm with you on the summer thing, I sweat my ASS off in summer. I was doing a temp job in a factory where temperatures were 40C with humidex all day and I was dripping within 5 minutes haha. Winter's the only season that compensates for my body heat.



The windchill is the killer! I don't mind the cold, but I definitely agree with you, the windchill doesn't make things any better. I still think I'd take the windchill over sweating like a pig. 



ivancic1al said:


> ^ Yeah, as long as it's not -30 with the wind chill and there's not much snow on the ground, I love running in the cold. It feels "crisper". the humidity in the summer, fuck that shit. So I guess Autumn would be the ideal season to run then.




My road turns into a sheet of ice and stays that way for 2-4 weeks because the sun is blocked by all of the trees. It makes for a fun time trying to get up and down the road. Anyone have tips for running in the summer, other than bringing water or an 8 mile streak?


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## Bevo

When I used to run retarded miles way back in the day I tried eveverything to keep cool in our hot humid summer.
The best idea is to run when its cooler but life always gets in the way.

What I did find to be the best was a long white paper thin shirt, it kept the sun off you and your sweat stuck to it so any small breeze felt way better.
I didn't use a hat but one of the running hats would probably work well.

The new technical shirts they have now would be great but you can't beat a thin long sleave T for cheap.
Oh yeah, running with no shirt... stupid, it just burns your tattoos out of your skin!!


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## Origin

I despise heat, in summer I generally just run at 930 or 10 at night so it's cooler in as little clothing as possible (thinass shirt and tight cutoff shorts or my fancy Unearth shorts ) Winter I've done the same thing, mostly out of habit but also because I'm either getting up for school or a 10-hour shift pretty much every day so night is when I have the time. 

I'm with you though, I hate summer. Hate hate hate it. I sweat my ass off no matter what, I've become uncomfortable in even just 0 degrees, if I don't have active cooling I get hot fast haha. No clue why, but winters are quite comfortable. Except of course, once you get to extreme cold and windchill, in which case it can fuck off no matter what.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I've resorted to running in my college's gym.


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## Philligan

Origin said:


> I guess what I'm trying to say is I've resorted to running in my college's gym.




Just found this thread, glad I did. I started running more seriously after Christmas and have actually kept with it and gotten better  The inspiration from this thread isn't hurting, either.

Anyway, to get back OT, I hated running outside back in the day, because all I could think about was how far I'd run (and therefore how far I'd have to run _back_ haha). Running on a treadmill at the gym kept me from thinking about that as much. Not to mention, people watching keeps things from getting as boring


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## Guitarmiester

I used to have a treadmill, but would still prefer running outside regardless of the conditions. If I'm on the treadmill at home or in the gym, I'd be much more likely to slack off. I'd get off to grab a drink, which would end up in checking my emails or wanting to add/remove music on my ipod, or some other kind of excuse to skip running just because it'd be so convenient to run inside without actually going anywhere. 

I'm more likely to push myself running outside. Maybe I'll change up my route or stray off to a different area. Whatever works for you is all that matters anyway. I'm sure people watching can be pretty amusing. 



Origin said:


> I despise heat, in summer I generally just run at 930 or 10 at night so it's cooler in as little clothing as possible (thinass shirt and tight cutoff shorts or my fancy Unearth shorts ) Winter I've done the same thing, mostly out of habit but also because I'm either getting up for school or a 10-hour shift pretty much every day so night is when I have the time.
> 
> I'm with you though, I hate summer. Hate hate hate it. I sweat my ass off no matter what, I've become uncomfortable in even just 0 degrees, if I don't have active cooling I get hot fast haha. No clue why, but winters are quite comfortable. Except of course, once you get to extreme cold and windchill, in which case it can fuck off no matter what.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is I've resorted to running in my college's gym.



I wish I could run once the sun goes down, but it's not really possible due to no street lights. I'd run early in the morning, but if I don't have to be up early for work there's no way in hell I'm getting up early to run lol.


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## Bevo

I just read a book called "Born to Run" which is a story of some natives in Mexico and the Ultra running comunnity. These guys think nothing of going for a 100 mile run with tires for shoes.

Talk about inspiring, hit up you local Library and borrow it, or get it at Chapters.

It goes back to the pureness of running right from stoneage, it also damns the invention of the running shoe. 
The story also goes on to mention a new way to run, short and sweet.. you land flat foot not with your heel.

I have been doing this type of running for the last few weeks barefoot on the treadmill and after the calfs got use to it it is effortless, I could litteraly run all day!

Check it out if you can!


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## Guitarmiester

Do any of you that run on a regular basis take any kind of supplements? I run in the morning and hit the gym later in the day. After workouts, I always have my protein shakes. I've never really thought about taking any pre/post supplements for running. I don't run to cut weight, just to keep in shape since I'm more on the skinny side. 

I'm thinking about a protein shake in the morning after running and then another after workouts. This coming week I'll be giving nitric oxide a shot only as a pre-workout supplement. Do you guys take any pre supplements for running?


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## Bevo

Me nope, I don't eat meat or go looking for protien either after the run or gym.
For me real food is so much better than one of those shakes, I aim for natural food as much as possible.

I think for you some eggs toast and coffee after the run would taste better no?
If its for weight gain then you have to eat more all day long, its about total calories and how much you burn.


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## Guitarmiester

I've changed diet not long ago and still making a few adjustments. I've been trying to eat better meat as often as possible, rather than just getting whatever. Obviously, nobody relies on supplements. They're just that extra something that can't hurt to take. My protein shakes are load with protein and a decent amount of essential amino acids and then I add a few things for more caloric intake. 

I actually started eating eggs more often. Not a big fan of the taste and texture of eggs, but that's where cheese kicks in. No coffee for me. It has never appealed to me. All I really drink is milk and a lot of water.


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## Origin

First 7k today, hooray! Felt so baked afterwards that I almost fell.


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## ivancic1al

^  Good work man! How's the weather by you? It's sunny in St Catharines, but since it snowed this week it's all slushy and shit. I keep telling myself to go for a run, but it's gonna be so slippery :/


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## Bevo

You guys have to get into the trails, there is just nothing like it, quiet and all consuming with needing to see where your going.
I signed up for a 25k trail race out near Hamilton and can't wait!!

Last week i got two new pairs of shoes, New Balance MT101 for the trails and Mizuno Musha for the roads.
Both are minimal flat type shoes and just a treat to run in, they feel like your wearing socks!

Keep at it and it will become adictive, I am dying to go right now but I ate a late lunch and its still heavy in the belly....crap!!!


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## Origin

ivancic1al said:


> ^  Good work man! How's the weather by you? It's sunny in St Catharines, but since it snowed this week it's all slushy and shit. I keep telling myself to go for a run, but it's gonna be so slippery :/



Wellll, that's the thing, I just went to my college's gym and went on a treadmill.  The weather's alright; what snow did fall is melting and it's sunny if still a little cold. I lost my desire to run in cold too, I breathe way shittier.


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## Bevo

I just got back from my run and my ass is frozen and the rest of me is hot?
Roads and sidewalks were clear in Toronto just a cold cold wind but it was still worth it!!


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## ivancic1al

Hopefully the snow clears, doing a 5k and a 10k heart association run in the next couple of weekends. I'm excited to get back out there.


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## Revan132

Can anyone report on how beneficial it would be to my running if I switch shoes? I am using a really subpar brand of reebok sneakers I acquired a few years ago at Marshalls for around $20. I was thinking of using my paycheck and going out and buying the top of the line Nike Running Shoe for my specific running type (Roads and Treadmills, the occasional Trail). I have been doing Interval training for over a month now and my objective is to not my hurt myself in any way if I start tacking on a nice brisk jog on my off days. I am really starting to love running!


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## Guitarmiester

I didn't think shoe would make THAT big of a difference until I actually bought a few pairs. My regular shoes are Macbeth's, which I ran in for about before deciding it was time to get some running shoes. I bought a pair of Nike Dual Fusion and another pair of Nike, can't remember what they're called. Be sure to try everything on! Shoe sizes are very inconsistent, especially when it comes to running shoes. My Macbeth's are 10.5, the Dual Fusion are a 9, and the other Nike are 8. All of them fit fine. None are too tight or too big. Weird, but whatever works. 

Running shoes are very comfortable and have added support that you won't find with regular shoes. Regardless of how often or little you're running, it's well worth your time and money to get a pair or two of running shoes.


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## Bevo

There is a big movement away from super padded shoes to more of a barefoot running shoe or minimalist.
Running heal toe tends to shock your system while running flat foot with shorter strides is lighter on your body. Landing on your heal its a joint impact, on your fore foot its a muscle impact.

I went to a minimal set of shoes a few weeks ago, they have a minimal heal pad and its flat from toe to heal with minimal rise.
Running in them was hard on the calves but once i got used to it i had so little pain I could easily double my mileage.

Rent the book born to run from the library, its a great read that explains how evil running shoes have become.

Long story short, you don't need to spend huge money on shoes but you should get some help to buy them.


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## Origin

I have some old Asics I got for free after someone left them in the lost and found at a gym forever, my dad picked em up.  Also have some Adidas runners. Neither is too padded, thank shit. Just feels weird. But i definitely need arch support as mine are high as hell, so I love me some non-flat shoes.


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## Origin

8k, let's see if I can keep this bullshit up.


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## Revan132

Bought some brand new New Balance Running Shoes and WOW I saw a major difference in performance. I am comfortable as can be and ran 4 miles on my day off. I admired the scenery and had a blast running (For once)!


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## Bevo

Right on!!

I am stuck in Edmonton and the tread mill at the hotel is broke and i did not bring any cold weather running stuff....Suck!!

Bought a bottle of Whiskey so its all good now LOL!!


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## Guitarmiester

I just stocked up on a bunch of Under Armour coldgear and heatgear. It's so easy to rack up a bill there. Does anyone wear Under Armour shoes? I keep forgetting to check them out in stores. Every time I see them online, they don't look overly padded. My Nike Dual Fusion are comfortable, but have a little more padding than I'd like. My Nike Reax are more along the lines of what I like. Both have great support, but the Reax aren't nearly as padded.


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## Bevo

I checked them out and its like having pillows on your feet, no thanks!

Less padding is best for me, that and as low to the ground as i can get. For support or motion control i have gone from a motion control shoe to one without and my needs for that control are gone.

I am way to cheap to go for that expensive clothes, I get poly pro stuff from the outdoor store and warm tights from the bike shops.
30- 40F I run in tights, long sleeve poly shirt and a vest. Below 30F I add another long sleeve poly shirt and a wind breaker jacket also another pair of tights if its super cold.

One good thing to have is wool socks specific to running, they are almost $20 but in a well vented shoe on a cold day with snow your feet will stay super warm!


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## Origin

I just go in dirty running shoes in a breathy shirt or one of my band shirts that has the sleeves cut off, and cutoff shorts.  You guys are making me feel like a pov haha.


----------



## ivancic1al

^ No, I do that, Cutoff shirts, maybe a turtleneck if it's super super cold, and tights of it's like -20. 

Other than that, I'll rock shorts and a custy shirt. I'm not that picky about the cold I guess.


----------



## Bevo

Its about the function and not fashion so whatever works for you!

I was running with this guy just now, he always runs the same time i do. Today its 17c at my house and i was in shorts and a light long sleeve shirt (it was a long run) he was in this stinking wool sweater, hat, thick cotton pants and sweating like a pig.

Whatever works eh!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Bevo said:


> I checked them out and its like having pillows on your feet, no thanks!
> 
> Less padding is best for me, that and as low to the ground as i can get. For support or motion control i have gone from a motion control shoe to one without and my needs for that control are gone.
> 
> I am way to cheap to go for that expensive clothes, I get poly pro stuff from the outdoor store and warm tights from the bike shops.
> 30- 40F I run in tights, long sleeve poly shirt and a vest. Below 30F I add another long sleeve poly shirt and a wind breaker jacket also another pair of tights if its super cold.
> 
> One good thing to have is wool socks specific to running, they are almost $20 but in a well vented shoe on a cold day with snow your feet will stay super warm!



I had a feeling you weren't going to like the Dual Fusion. 

The UA heatgear shirts are great. Before I bought a few, I was running in regular shirts and definitely won't go back to them when running in any kind of warm or hot weather. The shirts are extremely comfortable, light, and really lets you breathe. UA isn't cheap, but they've really got their shit down.


----------



## Bevo

Its not for me but you are your own person so don't let others opinions stop you.

My girl just bought me a couple UA shirts LOL!
She found them on sale and thought I would like them and i do, I didn't tell her I was to cheap to buy them, I love how they make you look so big!!


----------



## Bevo

You guys still running?


----------



## Guitarmiester

I haven't let the weather keep me from running. Yesterday was in the 80's and I still went for my usual run. It's a great stress reliever to remedy an aggravating day at work. 

Depending on how late it is, some days I go running and biking within the same day. It's not as strenuous as some would think since you're working different parts of your legs for each.


----------



## Origin

I got all depressy and shit the last few weeks and slagged off on running, to be honest I've lost about 10-15 pounds from feeling like shit anyway so I don't think I've fallen behind too badly.  Stoked to get back into it once the spirit reignites though.


----------



## FretWizard88

I finally got to run outside today! Wisconsin has finally reached a tolerable temperature for a fair weather runner like myself. Felt super awesome!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Does anyone here get leg cramps and/or a charlie horse in your calf fairly often? I've never really had this problem up until maybe a month or two ago. I'll randomly wake up in the middle of the night as if there was a reason to wake up and then oh shit, what's my leg doing?! Everyone I've talked to about this said to eat more bananas, which I expected due to bananas being the best source of potassium. Is there anything else or anything you guys recommend?


----------



## lobee

Drink more water throughout the day. Avoid or limit things that dehydrate you like coffee, alcohol, etc. Warm up/cool down before/after exercise. Stretch more often.

I sometimes wake up from toe cramps in the middle of the night. Makes me wanna kill a bitch when they don't go away, no matter how much I stretch or rub them. fuuuuuu-.jpg


----------



## Bevo

Electrolytes, you may be lacking.
Do you crave salt at all?
Is your sweat really salty/powdery and do you run lots?

Eating some salty foods is not the thing, get gatorade electrolyte drinks or get the pills you drop in water from a running shop.

I get that if I run to much on super hot days and actualy pop one of the pills (it fizzes and taste like lemon), it takes the cramps away and settles the stomach.


----------



## Guitarmiester

lobee said:


> Drink more water throughout the day. Avoid or limit things that dehydrate you like coffee, alcohol, etc. Warm up/cool down before/after exercise. Stretch more often.
> 
> I sometimes wake up from toe cramps in the middle of the night. Makes me wanna kill a bitch when they don't go away, no matter how much I stretch or rub them. fuuuuuu-.jpg



I'm not a coffee drinker and never will be. My drink intake consists of milk in the morning and later in the day for my protein shake and all throughout the day I drink nothing but water. Alcohol on occasion when I go out or to a party, so that's not much of an issue. 

What do you suggest as a warm up? I don't immediately start running the minute I step out the door. I walk about an 1/8 of a mile or so until I hit a certain road and begin my run there. I've really worked on my breathing to the point where I don't have to stop at all during my 3-4 mile run. 



Bevo said:


> Electrolytes, you may be lacking.
> Do you crave salt at all?
> Is your sweat really salty/powdery and do you run lots?
> 
> Eating some salty foods is not the thing, get gatorade electrolyte drinks or get the pills you drop in water from a running shop.
> 
> I get that if I run to much on super hot days and actualy pop one of the pills (it fizzes and taste like lemon), it takes the cramps away and settles the stomach.



That's good that you mentioned electrolytes. I'm sure that's what I've been lacking and actually bought a shitload of Gatorade two or three weeks ago. Water just wasn't cutting it after runs, so I've been downing Gatorade with 1-2 tablespoons of Glutamine added in. The pills sound interesting, I'll have to look into them.


----------



## rtagaras

Guitarmiester said:


> What do you suggest as a warm up? I don't immediately start running the minute I step out the door. I walk about an 1/8 of a mile or so until I hit a certain road and begin my run there. I've really worked on my breathing to the point where I don't have to stop at all during my 3-4 mile run.



For my shorter runs (<6 miles), I usually jog a mile going 2 minutes slower than the pace that I'll be running at. For anything over 6 miles, I jog 2 miles instead of 1. After i finish that, I do some stretches


----------



## Bevo

Warm up is relative to how tight you feel and how often you run.
Most times i lock my door and start running at a easy pace and let the run come to me, sometimes it wants a fast one other times its just an easy day..a couple times it said go have a beer!

Listen to your body it will tell you what it wants by craving something, I give in unless its something stupid. If it craves salt I eat some cause I know its something I need.

Running is fun and easy if you keep at it, aim for at least 3 times a week and try to get into the trails..so much more fun!
Also aim for 10% more each week, once you hit an hour its an entire different world!


----------



## TheSixthWheel

I don't know much about running, but my cousin Brian Martin created this: Running Technique by Brian Martin - Download Running Technique with iBooks

He really knows his shit, and is an accomplished runner. PM me if you're interested and I should be able to score you a discount redeem code.


----------



## MFB

Not quite running in the sense that everyone is talking about since I use an Elliptical vs. Treadmill, but I've been working on cutting down my mile's time to under 11 minutes on resistance level 3 for some time. I started out running a 12:30 or so, which is under what I had last time I had to run it (Freshman year of High School). From there I bumped it down to 12:15, and then finally down under 12 minutes here and there floating around 11:30ish. 

Up until this last couple weeks I had hovered there, then on Monday, I saw my time cut down to 11:15, then Weds it was even lower to 11:08 and I busted my ass to get it down to 10:56 on Friday  If I can do this for another week I'll consider myself ready to move up to resistance 4.

In a sick way, it's a fun goal to achieve.


----------



## Origin

Got my 5k's down to 21 minutes, got mad at myself for not just saying fuck it and going under 20  I need to start doing more distance per run methinks. On that note, Born of Osiris is hands down my running band.


----------



## MFB

Bitches don't know about my 10:40 mile 

I think I'm gonna go back to my original goal and try to get my mile time down to either 10-ish minute (give +/- 5 seconds) by right around my birthday (end of August). I lose some time given that I'll be going on a cruise as well as going out with friends for my birthday and such, but I feel another 3-4 weeks should be enough time to comfortably build up endurance and cut down 40-50 seconds


----------



## sunbasket

Running for me is largely a mental game.

My brain acts like sort of the central computer to a nuclear power plant, doing constant routine checks over the various wings of the plant and the smaller systems within. My attention focuses in and out, from gathering sensory input about the terrain ahead to examining the amount of pressure from my footfalls.

Many micro adjustments are made to the point of being unconsciously done;

[Warning: calves at 90% stress, move more power to glutes!!] or [Welcome to the 8 minute mile! this is a friendly reminder that breathing in sync with footfalls makes for a happier, healthier sunbasket! You'll be hurting afterward!]

These internal prompts help me run my body as a system and help me forget about the checkpoints ahead.


----------



## MFB

I wish I could not wheeze like an idiot while running  Or at least, I feel like I do, and when I go for a drink of water? Fucking forget about looking cool, I can barely run and drink at the same time, then swallowing it makes me feel like I'm gonna loose my balance. This is why I need to build up my endurance


----------



## Guitarmiester

Endurance was my main reason to get back into running. Lately, I've had the tendency to constantly pick up the pace because I've yet to find headphones/earbuds that will stay in my ears longer than 2 seconds when running. Instead of listening to music and sight-seeing, I'm focused on how much further I need to go. 

Building endurance is great and can happen quickly. I went from having to stop or slow down every so often to being able to cover the entire 3-4 miles in about 25 minutes without having to stop or really slow down at all. It's quite an achievement for someone who used to have annoying asthma.


----------



## MFB

Yeah, I can run the mile in 10:40 without much of a problem, but doing it calmly and keeping myself from kind of stuttering at points and such is a problem.


----------



## Origin

Just gotta keep at it, I find breathing in twice and out once per cycle helps.  I really need to get back at going regularly though, getting pissed off at myself.


----------



## Guitarmiester

I don't know how the weather's been in Canada lately, but in NJ it's been so hot and humid almost the entire month. There were a few days that were in the 100's and then add humidity on top of that. Really puts a damper on running and even biking.


----------



## Origin

I went this morning and almost puked from the humidity, I feel you. I HATE this shit. I'm getting obsessed with utterly destroying what's left of the fat on my torso though, so back in the furnace I will need to go for quite a while more.


----------



## Bevo

As the commercial on TV says "If you want to run faster, run faster"

How to do it is called a Tempo run. You do this by getting a good warm up then running at a pace you can just barely hold for one full minute then go back to a slower pace. If you extend your time at that pace soon your slow pace will seem like a snails pace as you get used to it.

i have been running with a fast group each weekend and my normal pace was a 9 min mile on a good day and plus .30 on a bad.
Now running at an 8 min pace and keeping up my easy runs are way faster and my heart rate is lower for the same output.

Try to run at least 3 times a week, two days of your normal distance then the third at a longer by 20% distance. Also increase your miles by 10% each week, after some time you will comfortaby go long with out getting sore or running out of energy!

Most important is to enjoy the run and try to get into the trails!


----------



## GuitaristOfHell

When I did Cross- Country we'd be doing 9 miles a day , So just run maybe 6+ miles a day if you can and you'll just get used to it. The mile becomes a sprint compared to what you've been running. I've run a 6:50 mile and not breaking a sweat from it ( no idea how though. My friends came up to me saying "dude and you're not sweating?"). Slowly increase your distance when the distance you're at now feels like nothing and eventually you will shock yourself how far you can go and not be tired, exhausted, dreading it, but rather energetic and saying " what only 15 miles? That's cake". Good luck Origin!!!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Trails in my area are so over-grown and tick-ridden.


----------



## Guitarmiester




----------



## Origin

I have no trails, so at least you HAVE some haha.  There is a waterfront trail but it's on the other end of town, where I used to live. Grumble. I just go up and down a lot of hilly streets, which I guess provides a fun incline challenge. The downhill's fun as shit though, gotta say.


----------



## ShadyDavey

I've got access to some delightful hilly woods to run in, or some long, flat roads which is quite pleasing as I've recently got back into running and discovered that I enjoy it far more now than I used to - having the choice of terrain quite close by is a massive bonus!

The huge downside is that I under-pronate like a mofo (Yeah, had my gait analyzed by a pro) which means that in order to avoid debilitating impact trauma I need specific shoes with shock absorption that compensate for the condition, as well as double-shock sorbothane insoles. 

Said shoes are pretty expensive (to me at least) so whilst I am saving the old readies in order to grab a pair (Asics Nimbus) I can't run simply through a desire to avoid injury in the meantime. Bit of a shame as I was up to 5.5 km's every other day and feeling quite good about it.......but all good things to those who wait.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Double post hell.


----------



## Bevo

Shady

I had a problem with pronation although not as bad and changed from a heel to stride to a mid fore foot stride and now run in neutral shoes.
Some people that have serious problems such as yours have gone barefoot or into a very very minimal shoe like the New Balance Minimus Trail and have had no problems.

An easy way to try the barefoot thing is to find a smooth road with no rocks or a long hallway in a building and simply run.
Right away you will be off your heel landing correctly, just don't do more than a minute or two or your going to be sore for days!!
Think of it as calf raises at the gym because thats what your doing.


----------



## ShadyDavey

I'll take a look at that when the ol' shin splints have settled down some. The problem isn't helped by power-hiking (8km's with a 25lb pack) in a bid to get fit in lieu of running/cycling so I'll have a go with your method after some rest - thanks 

I'm sort of limited in my options here as swimming/cycling are out (lack of facilities/equipment) so I have the options of walking/running/jogging etc but it's a lot of impact to deal with on a regular basis.


----------



## Korg

Just giving some input here, if you want to try something new/bit more advanced you could always try HIIT, high intensity interval training, where you jog/sprint at a 1:2 ratio, so basically you will sprint for f.ex. 40 seconds and then jog for 20seconds, and then repeat this, of course you need a watch for this though, but I've just started getting into it, and it really gives something 

sorry if this was posted earlier and I didn't see it


----------



## GATA4

Thread is tl;dr but I've never been a fan of static stretching...I prefer to warm up through the motions I will actually be performing. I just start running and keep consistent posture. 

Running kicks ass.

Develop your breathing, posture, and gait, and you'll be knocking down kilometers in no time.


----------



## ShadyDavey

I actually tried a little running earlier - cardiovascular was fine and whilst I did sweat (probably more due to the temperature than my fitness) my leg told me in no uncertain terms that 3.2k was enough for now.

Still, better than I expected and while I can certainly run for a lot longer I'm not pushing myself into the pain zone again.....


----------



## Scar Symmetry

The pain zone is home


----------



## Maniacal

Got my 85 litre rucksack full of sand and Decapitated on my ipod, time for my run.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Running is great, it feels good. And it's a great way to stay in shape. I've been running actively for over 2 years now, and i just bought myself new running shoes (nike air max run lite ++) and they're really good, makes it easier and softer to run.


----------



## MFB

10:28

10-fucking-28, motherfuckers  That's another 12 seconds off my mile time, and I know that I have to keep my strides per minute hovering at 185-195 if I want to keep it consistent around there.


----------



## ShadyDavey

MFB said:


> 10:28
> 
> 10-fucking-28, motherfuckers  That's another 12 seconds off my mile time, and I know that I have to keep my strides per minute hovering at 185-195 if I want to keep it consistent around there.



Keep it up dude - all progress is good


----------



## ShadyDavey

Scar Symmetry said:


> The pain zone is home



Not when it's indicative of an actual injury rather than extreme effort. I've pushed into the "burn" more times than I could count but running through injuries is well.........silly


----------



## MFB

Welp, since I've been keeping an eye on my mile's time as my main goal, I forgot how much weight I do on certain machines and let's just say my back is NOT happy with me today


----------



## TheSixthWheel

My cousin (the running genius) is advertising his book via this free download:

Free download: Strength training exercise for improving running technique

Check it out, for those of you who want to understand the inner workings of running and the mechanics of how to run safely and efficiently.


----------



## Origin

TheSixthWheel said:


> My cousin (the running genius) is advertising his book via this free download:
> 
> Free download: Strength training exercise for improving running technique
> 
> Check it out, for those of you who want to understand the inner workings of running and the mechanics of how to run safely and efficiently.



Rep'd and my thanks


----------



## MFB

Rep'd for that, this'll definitely help


----------



## ShadyDavey

+some appreciation - seems I better look into his book!

Top notch


----------



## MFB

Only cut two more seconds off of my mile time, but it still keeps me under 10:30 which is what counts I suppose. Getting better at drinking water while running, the only thing that sucks is my SPM (Strides per minute) drops down from about 180-190 to 165-170 which is just annoying cause then I immediately have to speed back up. I need to find a way to keep the pace consistent.


----------



## Skyblue

I got in the mood for running again, but 2 problems are in my way: 
First, no music player I can use while running. I've got my iPod Touch, but that's not something convenient to run with.... 
Second, EVERY FREAKIN' TIME I TRY TO RUN IT FEELS LIKE SOMEONE PUNCHED ME IN THE BALLS. had a surgery half a year ago, and it still hurts like hell. Doctor can't find any issue :\ It's not as bad when I'm doing long distance run (since then I run at a slower pace) but I run like 2 km in about 12 minutes


----------



## Origin

I don't see the problem in going your own pace.  I'm really really really not into the best time or racing aspect of it, I more started the thread to encourage myself and maybe some other peeps to get into the health aspect haha. So DON'T fret speed too much, or at least don't think you have to here.  If I had surgery I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go at all cause I'm kind of a bitch like that.


----------



## Bevo

Origin nailed it, its not about the speed.

All serious unners work on base miles or LSD, long, Slow, Distance which is a pace where you can easily chat at 60% of your heart rate. Feel wise its a speed you can do all day.
do this a couple times a week and one day kick it up to the speed that makes it harder to breath but not impossible.

Doing this for a few weeks will bring your mile time down like crazy no problem. I used to run at a 10;30 pace thinking it was brutal but now with the miles in me I can average an easy 8:50 over 20K.
Now when we are on the trails I like to race up the hills and I find that at times i am running a hard but doable 7:30 pace.

How I know this is by using a Garmin GPS running watch, it gives me my pace down the the foot.

Keep at it guys but start slower than you think and run less than you want to, it will come..


----------



## Skyblue

Origin said:


> I don't see the problem in going your own pace.  I'm really really really not into the best time or racing aspect of it, I more started the thread to encourage myself and maybe some other peeps to get into the health aspect haha. So DON'T fret speed too much, or at least don't think you have to here.  If I had surgery I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go at all cause I'm kind of a bitch like that.


I don't really run myself, but I had to during PE ins school... I know it's not the speed, I completely agree... but it's frustrating knowing I just can't run at higher speeds, or sprint, regardless of my own training =\ 
Problem is I'm going to the army in a month, and right now it looks like they're planning on my being a combative soldier- which will pose a problem if I can't run properly (not to mention, lifting heavy stuff will probably cause pain as well, but I haven't tried it myself yet) 



Bevo said:


> Origin nailed it, its not about the speed.
> 
> All serious unners work on base miles or LSD, long, Slow, Distance which is a pace where you can easily chat at 60% of your heart rate. Feel wise its a speed you can do all day.
> do this a couple times a week and one day kick it up to the speed that makes it harder to breath but not impossible.
> 
> Doing this for a few weeks will bring your mile time down like crazy no problem. I used to run at a 10;30 pace thinking it was brutal but now with the miles in me I can average an easy 8:50 over 20K.
> Now when we are on the trails I like to race up the hills and I find that at times i am running a hard but doable 7:30 pace.
> 
> How I know this is by using a Garmin GPS running watch, it gives me my pace down the the foot.
> 
> Keep at it guys but start slower than you think and run less than you want to, it will come..


I will try to run as you explained, and thanks for the tip, but the problem does't lie in me being out of shape- the pains come from the surgery I went through, so I can't really work on improving my pace... 

I guess my post seemed a bit bitchy- I just needed to vent, I was just at the doctor and he found something which MIGHT be causing the pain, but there's nothing he can do about it really... 
But thanks for the tips guys! I'll definitely try to run some long distance, slower paced runs... that is, when temperatures outside drop beneath 35C >.>


----------



## MFB

Origin said:


> I don't see the problem in going your own pace.  I'm really really really not into the best time or racing aspect of it, I more started the thread to encourage myself and maybe some other peeps to get into the health aspect haha. So DON'T fret speed too much, or at least don't think you have to here.  If I had surgery I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go at all cause I'm kind of a bitch like that.



The problem is I'm going for a very specific goal of one mile in under 10 minutes, and currently pulling 10:26 at 185-195spm, so I need to up my endurance so I can run faster at that same pace - which means I can't afford to run at my own pace for the time being anyways. If I don't stay upwards of 180, I won't keep making times like that.


----------



## Bevo

MFB, to get you there longer runs will help for sure even at a slower pace.
Why, it trains the same muscles to be stronger and also helps you lose a bit of weight and make your heart stronger.
All of that will make you faster, you goal of a 1 min mile is not going to be hard if you keep at it.

What I suggest is to spend a few min each run at a fast pace for 1 min, then go back to the slow pace. After your good do it again for the same time, once your ok and have done it a few times move it to 2 min.

Once you can do 6-7 min you can do 10 no problem.

In the long run world we train only 50% of the long run with one or two days up to 80% of the goal, this will allow us to easily run up to 100 miles without training at 100 miles.
the speed is the same, if you get close you can let it rip the entire distance.

On my Saturday running group we have about 4 + 50 ladies that run in trails at a 8:30 pace over 20 miles...you can do it!!!

That reminds me, lots of running shoe stores do group runs and can train you for free, check it out..maybe some hotties...


----------



## MFB

So, keeping with the idea of doing longer runs at a slower pace, should I change my routine from doing 1 mile in 10:30 or so, up to something like 1.25/1.5 miles and have part of that be the 1-minute fast pace, or still do that 1 mile but have that faster increase be IN that time frame I'm already setting?


----------



## Bevo

I would go by time instead of distance.
Run 5-10 min to warm up then one min at 70% of your fastest, 2 min to cool down then 1 min at 80% with 2 min to cool down then 1 last go as fast and as long as you can followed by 10 min to cool down.

Do this no more than twice a week, your other two runs should just be 20-30 min at a pace you can talk easily.


----------



## Bevo

Found a picture of me floating across some mud at a race I attended a few weeks ago.
15K all technical trails with a time of 1:40 placing 45 out of 120 and 8th in my age class.


----------



## Dwellingers

Enjoy som HIIT running and some longer paced runs also, 10-12 kilometers. Longer runs are uncharted territory thou, but I see them comming in the horizon.


----------



## Bevo

Once you get past that 12K length or 1 hour you have to start thinking of fuel. Find something that is easy on your stomach so you can eat and run..
Keep this in your pocket or pack and have it ready to go if you need it, if your going two hour eat at least 200 calories at the one hour mark and don't forget to drink lots!


----------



## MFB

I took Bevo's advice, and did a sort of HIT running, which went something like this :

5 minutes @ 150-155spm (strides per minute)
1 minute @ 210-220spm
4 minutes @ 150-155spm
1 minute @ 190-200spm
3 minutes @ 140-150spm (pace went down slightly due to now being over my regular run time)
1 minute @ 170-180spm
1 minutes @ 140-150spm
1 minute @ 150-160spm

Cool down I did 1/10th of a mile backwards at like, 100spm or so. So in that total of 17 minutes not including cool down I did a 1.57 mile and ended up really not being as tired as I thought I would be. My inbetween/casual pace may have been a hair too high since when I was running before I kept it at 185-190 per minute, and now I only bumped it down to around 150 at the lowest and 160 as the highest.


----------



## Guitarmiester

It's been too damn hot and humid to get any running in within the past month or so. I went a couple weeks ago after work and finished as a ball of sweat. It really hasn't been cooling down at all even after the sun goes down. Not a fan of not getting my usual runs in several days a week. 

I'm taking a trip to Colorado in a couple weeks. Can't wait to get some hiking, rock climbing, kayaking, and white water rafting in! I'm finally going to have an amazing scenery to go through, rather than nothing but woods and houses.


----------



## ShadyDavey

After resting up a little, making sure I condition my shins a little more and not to mention downright sheer perseverance I managed to hit 4.5 hilly miles (7.8k) this evening. Not quite to the standard I would have deemed acceptable as a 20 year old but solid progress isn't anything to really condemn myself for no matter how I felt at the end of the process 

Changing my running style to more of a mid forefoot stride and relaxing a little was the incredibly helpful - it's certainly paid dividends so HUGE thanks to everyone who chipped in with advice!

As an aside - why am I going for distance rather than time? I don't own a watch or phone to time myself with ^^


----------



## MFB

Anyone know how I can gauge my current mile time doing longer runs and such? Before it used to be easy, since I was just doing one mile in x amount of minutes, but finding my current time using proportions with old time and distance compared to new time and distance is giving me crazy results and saying I'm shaving like, 2 minutes off my time which can't be right.


----------



## MFB

Did a 1.25 mile today in 14 minutes, but did a more traditional HIIT, with 5 minute warm-up then every other minute I did a higher intensity. Kept my jogging pace at 144spm, and my intensity pace was for the most part around 200, or down to 190/188.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Did you manage to find a way to record your times dude?


----------



## MFB

No, sadly I still have 0 clue if I'm doing better or worse than before  I'll try and do the mile in under 10:30 on Monday and see how it goes.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Today was finally cool enough to go for a run. All of this heat and humidity has made it nearly impossible to even attempt going for a run. Felt great to cover those 3-4 miles again. My breathing was a little rough since I haven't been able to regularly go running like I used to.


----------



## Bevo

Guys, I use a garmin 305 GPS running watch, it tells me how fast or what my pace it as well as time for splits.

If you just have a watch you can go here and set up an account on the Log portion of the site. Once you are in there is a feature to map your run, type your address and literaly map your run so you see exactly what your running.

My garmin automaticly logs it for me, let me see if i can post on of my logs.. No luck can't get a screen shot.

Another way to time your mile is to simply get on a track and find out how many laps is one mile. Do a few laps for warm up then use a stop watch to do your mile then slow down and when your ready do it again.

You guys are doing great!
Whe its so hot out i love to be in the woods, its much cooler.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Do you have to worry about ticks? My area has quite a problem with mosquito, green head, and ticks.


----------



## Origin

Humidity's a giant-ass dickhead. I am a glistening mass of shit when I finish. Regardless, I got up to alternating 5ks with 8.5ks and I've generally managed to keep to at least every other night..until I got a nice case of runner's knee.  Been doing some squats and better, more thorough stretching before and after, hope it pisses off cause it feels loads better right now. I might look into some newer/springier shoes for running now too haha. I'm not at all debilitated, but it's definitely annoying; my legs are getting bitchy long before my lungs and heart, which I guess is good in general - just gotta step it up on form and preparation. Goddammit. 

Great to see all of you keeping up on it too.  Let's all keep kicking ass.


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## ShadyDavey

Don't have to worry about those sorts of things where am I Meister, but the humidity in my woods can be a total ball-ache  Add in hills and in some spots it feels like breathing soup but then you hit the crest and get a breath of fresh air in the face......quite invigorating!  

I'll have to add a decent watch to the list of materialistic fetishes, right next to an amp and new shoes !


----------



## Black_Sheep

I haven't been running in about one week. Damn. When i get back home i believe i'll start again. It's just a pain in the ass, after a short break like that i mean


----------



## ShadyDavey

Another 4.5miles this evening although as I left it slightly later in the day I do believe I could have gone another mile or so simply through not having to battle humidity and extremes of temperature.

Which is nice


----------



## Guitarmiester

I took the dog for a run after work today since he was inside the majority of the day. What a pace to keep up with! Who'd think a smaller dog would have so much damn energy! My legs were a little sore from yesterday and today's run really added to that. I need to get back to my usual routine. It's pretty bad if a dog put me in my place lol.


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## ShadyDavey

Don't feel bad 

Part of my run is down an old Roman road (glorified track these days) which connects two villages. On the way back I saw some guy on a motorcross bike followed by two springer spaniels who not only kept up with him but had enough energy to run around me as if I were something interesting ^^


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## Bevo

I see the warnings for Ticks but as long as the trails are well used it seems to be ok, none of our group has got bit yet.

A decent GPS watch can be found for way under $200 or on E-bay less than $100. Mine new was $150 and it is the best tool I have ever bought!

Runners knee is tough and mostly caused by over doing it. Look up some stretches and do that daily and before your run, I also found that if my knee started hurting mid run a stretch right then helps.

Today I missed my trail group run, damn girls were up until 3am waking me up non stop so 6am came and went without me knowing....grrrrrrr

Today I am going to go pick up a BMX bike for the days I don't run, can't wait to go into the skate park and ride street....I don't care how old I am its just fun!


----------



## ShadyDavey

I checked out the Garmin range - certainly on the list as I need a heart rate monitor as well. For the price I couldn't find a better choice


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## Bevo

I use the Garmin 305 model, the newer 405 is not much better and has a few problems.
For all the money we spend on gear these are soooo cheap and good!!


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## ShadyDavey

Bevo said:


> I use the Garmin 305 model, the newer 405 is not much better and has a few problems.
> For all the money we spend on gear these are soooo cheap and good!!





Very true that!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Do you guys take any supplements or vitamins geared toward runners? I have a multi-vitamin every morning. The only thing I have after getting back from a run is a couple tablespoons of glutamine with gatorade.


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## Origin

After a run I like to drink some chocolate milk or if not that maybe a half dose of the protein powder I usually take for the other stuff I do if I'm not running. For the day I don't do a whole lot other than normal besides staying away from pastas/other big-ass dishes and binging green tea like a psychotic. This goddamn knee is keeping me out of spirit, but I'm tempted to just ignore it and try to run a little more softly tomorrow.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Guitarmiester said:


> Do you guys take any supplements or vitamins geared toward runners? I have a multi-vitamin every morning. The only thing I have after getting back from a run is a couple tablespoons of glutamine with gatorade.



Nothing really, only some vitamin C (dictated by lack of cash rather than any other reason) and the occasional protein shake if I have some spare cash.

I make sure I get plenty of vegetables, eat low G.I where possible, keep hydrated, eat reasonable amounts of protein. I'd love to do more but at the moment it's just not feasible.


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## Bevo

I don't do anything special, before runs in the morning is a slice of toast along with another in my pack incase I get hungry. Afternoon runs I eat a few hours before and like to start a bit hungry.

On hot day with lots of sweat I take a Saltstick pill which is for Electrolyte and salt replacements. One of those helps with the sweating (more), cramps, water absorbtion and endurance. This is only for runs over 90 min.

After runs I don't do anything special but try to not eat the house down. I also do a good mix of Carbs, Calories and protien.

FYI
My Garmin tells me how much calories I burn, for me it averages out to 100 calories per mile at a moderate pace, I am 5,8 150 pounds.
Bigger and hevier means more calories per mile....this will give you an idea of what your using.


----------



## ShadyDavey

6'1" and just about 195lb, perhaps a little more - I can see I need that Garmin  

(Probably in the 150-160 range IIRC)


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## Guitarmiester

Thanks guys! It looks like I'm fairly similar to you guys. I drink a lot of water throughout the day, been trying to up my vegetable intake, I have several tubs of whey protein for milkshakes, and then the glutamine and Gatorade for a recovery boost and electrolytes. Cramps aren't an issue all that often, since I'll typically go for a run after work, which means I haven't eaten much, if anything, within the past 3-4 hours. 

I've been meaning to check out these watches you're talking about to be on top of my runs and caloric intake. I'm a skinnier guy, so it's a matter of making sure I'm eating enough and the right stuff to cover the runs.


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## Bevo

Great review of the watch here Amazon.ca: Customer Reviews: Garmin Forerunner 305 Waterproof Running GPS With Heart Rate Monitor


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## Origin

My knee and the murderous humidity be goddamned; managed my 5k in under 20 and the knee didn't bitch. Not close to pro time but I'm so glad my one leg didn't give out that I don't care.


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## ShadyDavey

Good effort! Faster than me for sure and I don't have a jiggered knee


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## Bevo

Nice!

Be carefull of that knee, stretch lots and land on your fore foot. Keeping your speed down will also help.

Went for a run tonight of 6 miles with my Portugues visitor riding my bike, she thought it was all city till I took her in the park then she was loving it.
Running with people is fun even if you can't speak the same language.


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## MFB

Went running today. Did a 1.25 mile in 14:15 with keeping my regular pace at 140 and my first HIIT speed went up to 244, my highest yet  I think tomorrow I'm gonna try my luck at doing just a straight mile without any intervals or anything tomorrow like I was doing before. Hopefully my endurance has built up and I can do it in about 10 mins.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Keep it up dude


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## Bevo

LSD is underated, Long slow distance really makes you run faster, it does not make sense but does work.
3 days a week I run slow and never do intervals, when I race i can go hard the entire time.

Its such a cool feeling to be going flat out for 20 min and wonder when your going to blow up, after an hour its just amazing!!
Keep at it and you guys will get there!


----------



## MFB

I still have no clue how I did a 1.63 mile that first day of HIIT


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## ShadyDavey

MFB said:


> I still have no clue how I did a 1.63 mile that first day of HIIT



I jumped from running just over 3 miles to 4.5 for no discernible reason......I certainly trained, and I took some advice from this thread but the difference was massive. 

I have no clue how it happened but happily just like guitar playing sometimes we do make progress in leaps and bounds


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## Bevo

If you remember when you started playing guitar you had to constantly find the right string under your finger never mind the right fret. Do you also see that if you don't play for some time your a bit rusty and even though you play well you just can't find the right spot on the string till you play for a bit.

That is muscle memory, the LSD and Scales teach us the basics of where we should be wether its on a string or taking a step.

Speed is the same way, before you can shred on the guitar you have to play that same section slow then work your speed up. Running is the same thing, start slow till you get it then your set.

Once you have all the basics down for both its easy to learn something new, your fingers and feet/body just goes where you want them.

Its pretty cool how our two passions are very much the same!


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## MFB

Man, I want to go back to the gym and run 'till my legs are jelly and my arms can't move but this damn tattoo is taking forever to heal  My time is gonna be so bad when I do get back.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Still pounding out 4.5 miles - I suspect that I'll need a little time to acclimatise with LSD runs and then push up to 5 miles in the next 6-8 weeks. I am finding that more and more nutrition is playing a role as sometimes I find myself running out of fuel depending on what I've eaten and even what time of the day I go running.

Too warm/humid = wipeout (stop 30 seconds, take on some water) but of course that's not surprising so right now every day is a learning experience


----------



## Bevo

Shady

Try to run around the same time so you can fuel the way you want. Aim for 200 calories an hour and eat it 2 hours before.

For me if I run after work I may come home and have a slice of toast and some water 30-40 min before and be good for 2 hours. I just use jam, be carefull what you use cause you may be burping it up your entire run.

Many times I feel like I get tired I find its mental, im not tired but have an urge to just give up. When this happens I take a break drink a bit and walk, sometimes I have to do it a few times in a run. After I walk for a bit my body will either come around if im tired or feel normal if its mental...do you know what I mean?

If its mental and it happens again I pick up my pace and run even faster, this changes something and I get my run back on track.

Don't feel bad if you have a bad run, just get back to it the next day. Keep in mind its not giving up, your body is just not ready for what you give it.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Thanks for the advice fella - it's much appreciated 

I'll see what progress I make over the next week or so and try to run at the same time in the afternoons. Must admit that my timing does fluctuate and it's a lot easier for me to run in the evening.


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## Kodee_Kaos

Jumping rope is my preferred cardio. I can get a hardcore ass-kicking workout in about 20 minutes. I gave up jogging after moving to rope. Just felt like trudging, drawn out crap. Plus Im a really paranoid person, and with rope skipping I don't have to leave my back yard. Supposedly boxers use it for developing quickness in footwork. Then I do some yoga after, and I feel effing awesome.


----------



## ShadyDavey

I used to do a lot of rope-work when I was heavily into Martial Arts, now I like to have a wander around the hills 

Yoga however - sounds like a great idea!


----------



## MFB

Ran .95 of a mile in 9:35 today with a steady pace for the first 5 or so minutes of 190 strides per minute, which is over 3 strides for every 1 second. Turned it down to about 170-180 until I hit the 9:30 mark when my body said it couldn't do anymore.

I imagine if I do a few more HIIT runs, I can get my endurance up the wee little bit and hit the under 10 minute mark


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## Bevo

Bit of a story from my last group run..

It was a trail run of around 12 Miles with 7 Girl and 3 guys starting at 7:30 am over the weekend.
Most of these runs everyone groups up with a buddy and chats pretty much the entire way, very social.

This lady running in a Pink skirt has her dog Lola with us and the dog is just great, full of energy. I think it was a herding Collie of some sort.

As the run goes on I get to run with her and she is a very soft spoken French/German mixed accent. We were talking about a race coming up where i am doing a manly 25K, she on the other hand is doing a WTF 100 MILES!!
We are talking 18-20 hours of running non stop, I will be done in 2-3 and be home in bed then have breakfast the next day before she is done!

Asking her how she does it it comes down to the training at 40% and the mental strength at 60% which I can see.

I was really inspired by her and will start to train for a 50 Mile race but more important is the mental strength I want to work on.
Last night on my 10 mile run I had a chance to try it, I was tired and my pace kept slowing down. I had to focus on the run and not get distracted and when the body was protesting I had to push through. Negative thoughts were also starting due to my pace being so fast at 8:30 miles for almost an hour steady. I wanted to slow down or stop so bad but I felt fine so I kept on trucking.

So a lesson for you guys is also the mental part of running, know your body and when your mind starts talking crap screw it and focus on the positives of what your doing.

if a 50 year old lady can man up and run 100 Miles I think we can meet our goals with the right mindset!


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## ShadyDavey

100 miles at 50? There's hope for all of us yet


----------



## Guitarmiester

I seem to have gotten banned a few days before going on vacation. I was out in Colorado and had the time of my life. It's crazy how fast the difference in altitude hits you. I climbed a waterfall and did a ton of hiking. After finding a trail to hike down the mountain, rather than going back down the waterfall, we were left about half a mile from where we parked. I needed the Gatorade I left in the car, so decided to run back to the car instead of walking. Running at a flat altitude is not a problem, but once I started to go up the mountain it'd hit me fast. 

Anyone else do some running or hiking in the mountains? I'm curious as to how you overcome this. Especially since I'm planning to move to CO within the next month or two.


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## Bevo

Dud your so lucky then again if I really wanted to i could move as well.

If your living there don't worry about it, after a week your body will be used to the thin air and your good to go. When you go down to sea level your going to be a machine! All that thin air makes you better then the thick air makes you super effiecient!
Lots of world class races live up there so they can kick butt when they come down!

Big race for me this coming Saturday 25K of trails in some very rough country, can't wait!!!
That old gal is doing 100 miles and I hope to catch her and run with her for a bit, i will try to get a picture of her and the race.


----------



## Guitarmiester

I've got a lot going on and a fresh start seems like a good idea, especially since I'm in a position to be able to pick up and leave. It's a whole different world over there. Really looking forward to it! 

It will only take a week or so to get used to the altitude difference? That's not so bad. I was expecting a little longer. Heard about all kinds of races that take place there, from running, biking, racing, etc. Really cool place that's perfect for all outdoors activities. 

Good luck with the race on Saturday! Let us know how you make out.


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## Blind Theory

Guitarmiester said:


> I've got a lot going on and a fresh start seems like a good idea, especially since I'm in a position to be able to pick up and leave. It's a whole different world over there. Really looking forward to it!
> 
> It will only take a week or so to get used to the altitude difference? That's not so bad. I was expecting a little longer. Heard about all kinds of races that take place there, from running, biking, racing, etc. Really cool place that's perfect for all outdoors activities.
> 
> Good luck with the race on Saturday! Let us know how you make out.



I live in Colorado. Have my whole life so I can't say how long it takes to get used to the elevation. But, I can tell you that there is still a difference between running in the mountains in Colorado and just running in Colorado. I live about 45-60 minutes away from the mountains (depending on traffic) and while I can run 3+ miles easily where I live, it would be more difficult to do so just inside the mountains (like Estes Park/etc.). Running where I live is still advantageous compared to some place like San Diego though. And if you are already in fairly decent running shape I don't think you will feel much of an adjustment period in regular life. You may need a week to catch up on running full bore but you should be good.


----------



## Guitarmiester

You're right about the difference between running in the mountains and running in the towns outside of the mountains. I was staying in Estes for the week, but traveled all over the state. Colorado turned out to be more than I imagined. Finding a place has been aggravating, but I'm determined.


----------



## MFB

I think the elliptical I used today was broken since it said I ran a 9 minute mile, with my average speed being about 7mph (this one didn't do strides per minute ) I didn't feel too winded at the end even though it read 1.00 on the distance. I did some Googling and one website did say if you run a consistent 7mph, you can do a 8.5 minute mile so maybe it is accurate?


----------



## Bevo

Did my 26 K trail race today and it was the hardest thing I ever did!!!
Overall it was close to 6,000 feet of climbing which I was not as prepared for as I thought.

It started well and i was in the top 10 until we hit the turn around, I ate something and started to run but my legs were dead, lots of energy but no strength.
I managed to run as much as I could but the hills were brutal and non stop.

The time I was hoping for was 2:45 but I came in at 3:30. My last 25k run I completed in 2:30 so you can imagine my pain!

My GF is laughing at me cause I can't walk but I got some extra love out of her so I am happy and a bit sleepy LOL!!


----------



## ShadyDavey

Bevo said:


> Did my 26 K trail race today and it was the hardest thing I ever did!!!
> Overall it was close to 6,000 feet of climbing which I was not as prepared for as I thought.
> 
> It started well and i was in the top 10 until we hit the turn around, I ate something and started to run but my legs were dead, lots of energy but no strength.
> I managed to run as much as I could but the hills were brutal and non stop.
> 
> The time I was hoping for was 2:45 but I came in at 3:30. My last 25k run I completed in 2:30 so you can imagine my pain!
> 
> My GF is laughing at me cause I can't walk but I got some extra love out of her so I am happy and a bit sleepy LOL!!



Well done regardless mate 

I've been working on/off at my brother's place which I can only describe as a building site so I've had very little energy left for actual training. Managed a couple of 4.5 miles but they left me flatlined the next day which of course is a good indicator I should have rested rather than tortured myself.

Anywho!

Back to a more normal routine tomorrow and hopefully that should see me make some progress over the next few weeks.....got a long way to catch up with 26k however!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Bevo said:


> Did my 26 K trail race today and it was the hardest thing I ever did!!!
> Overall it was close to 6,000 feet of climbing which I was not as prepared for as I thought.
> 
> It started well and i was in the top 10 until we hit the turn around, I ate something and started to run but my legs were dead, lots of energy but no strength.
> I managed to run as much as I could but the hills were brutal and non stop.
> 
> The time I was hoping for was 2:45 but I came in at 3:30. My last 25k run I completed in 2:30 so you can imagine my pain!
> 
> My GF is laughing at me cause I can't walk but I got some extra love out of her so I am happy and a bit sleepy LOL!!



That sounds pretty intense, but fun! I'd really like to try something like that one day. Having been slacking on my running lately, I'd be content completing the race over finishing within the top ranks. 

I just got back from my usual run and really need to get back into things. Used to be able to tackle the 3-4 miles like it was nothing, but since I started slacking it's been a bit of a struggle. Lately, I seem to be getting tired around 6:30/7pm when I'd normally go for my run. When that tired feeling hits, I put on the running shoes and hit the street! People think I'm crazy when they hear I seem to have more energy after going for a run.


----------



## Bevo

Thanks guys!

If you miss some time don't sweat it just get back to it.
One guy I ran with only ran 4 times this year and did the 50K race, no training there!

When I get that tired feeling before the run I just relax and have a coffee, it sparks me up and I have a great run.


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## MFB

Had a solid run today, my endurance has definitely gone up as I kept my strides-per-minute at a solid 200+ for 6 and a half minutes  That's an extra minute and a half compared to before. Although my overall ability to run a mile has decreased as after those 6 and a half minutes, I dropped down to about 180, or just shy, and I end up finishing at .93 of a mile at the 10 minute mark.

Think I'm gonna go back to the HIIT and that should help


----------



## Bevo

MFB, keep at it but also start working on longer distances. For the amount of time you run your not really training your body or seeing the benifit.
Its like one rep if your weight lifting.

Every week try to add a few min to your run.

I have not run since the weekend and am finaly not sore anymore, looking forward to my run tonight!


----------



## synrgy

I did a google search prior to posting, but I will admit that I haven't read all 8 pages of this thread.

I just wanted to drop this here for those who may be interested; best investment I've ever made for my feet:

Vibram FiveFingers : Barefoot Sports Shoes : Toe Shoes & Minimalist Shoes


----------



## Murmel

Ugh, I've been cold for like a week and haven't been able to work out or anything. I have a feeling my running is gonna suck when I get back to it


----------



## Bevo

The five fingers are not for everyone, I have tried them but no thanks, I gave them away.
I wear minimaly padded shoes but even these are starting to be a pain, literaly. I ran 20K today in the trails and the bottom of my feet is the only sore spot on my body.

Be carefull with them, lots of people are getting very hurt running in them.
If you using them just to walk around then have at it, my daughter calls them Gorilla shoes LOL!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> The five fingers are not for everyone, I have tried them but no thanks, I gave them away.
> I wear minimaly padded shoes but even these are starting to be a pain, literaly. I ran 20K today in the trails and the bottom of my feet is the only sore spot on my body.
> 
> Be carefull with them, lots of people are getting very hurt running in them.
> If you using them just to walk around then have at it, my daughter calls them Gorilla shoes LOL!


Really? I ran barefoot today to see if I should get Five Fingers and my feet were less sore than when I wear shoes.


----------



## Origin

Holding fast at 20-minute 5ks now. I wanna break the threshold but my lack of consistency and school/work clusterfuck are nerfing me.  Hopefully I'll break the 19 or similar by mid-fall or some shit. 

I agree about not using super-padded shoes, I run in old-ass Asics and I love them. Wouldn't ever go barefoot since so many sidewalks in my town have broken glass/other shit on them but yeah haha


----------



## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> Really? I ran barefoot today to see if I should get Five Fingers and my feet were less sore than when I wear shoes.


 

What happens when you run barefoot is you use your calf muscles which is easier on your body, your heel should not hit the ground maybe kiss it.
That is the benifit and how i run pain free.

Couple problems found with barefoot/five fingers.
Because your literaly doing a calf raise every step it can get extremly painfull if you do to much too soon. Start slow and work your way up.
Bone and joint problem within the foot, many people are in Doctors offices now that have damaged the feet, again to much to soon.
Heel fractures and spliting is common and only takes one bad heel landing to do some serious damage.
Bruised feet, one good rock in the wrong spot and your done for a few days.
Oh, getting sticks stuck between your toes although funny gets to be a pain after a while LOL!!

Benifit
Running barefoot style with light shoes protects your feet from the normal crap on the ground and also from the heel strike.
Running barefoot once your feet and body are used to it will keep your joints happy and give you lots of years of running.

Once a week I go to the soccer field behind my house and run barefoot with the dog. This helps me to make sure I am doing it right with the shoes on.

If you want to try it please do, it may benifit you but start slow and take your time!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> What happens when you run barefoot is you use your calf muscles which is easier on your body, your heel should not hit the ground maybe kiss it.
> That is the benifit and how i run pain free.
> 
> Couple problems found with barefoot/five fingers.
> Because your literaly doing a calf raise every step it can get extremly painfull if you do to much too soon. Start slow and work your way up.
> Bone and joint problem within the foot, many people are in Doctors offices now that have damaged the feet, again to much to soon.
> Heel fractures and spliting is common and only takes one bad heel landing to do some serious damage.
> Bruised feet, one good rock in the wrong spot and your done for a few days.
> Oh, getting sticks stuck between your toes although funny gets to be a pain after a while LOL!!
> 
> Benifit
> Running barefoot style with light shoes protects your feet from the normal crap on the ground and also from the heel strike.
> Running barefoot once your feet and body are used to it will keep your joints happy and give you lots of years of running.
> 
> Once a week I go to the soccer field behind my house and run barefoot with the dog. This helps me to make sure I am doing it right with the shoes on.
> 
> If you want to try it please do, it may benifit you but start slow and take your time!!


Thanks for the advice, I've been doing barefoot running for about a mile a day now on my school's football field. I figured I'll get Fivefingers in about a month when I'm more adjusted to barefoot.


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## Guitarmiester

Been a couple weeks since I last went running, mainly because it's been so damn humid! The cold is a nice change. Trying to get myself back to where I was when I was running several days a week. Moving to Colorado this week. Colorado isn't allowed to kick my ass!


----------



## ShadyDavey

Went running this morning and clocked up 5 miles but the weather is starting to change so it's actually more comfortable in the sense that I don't feel as if I'm trying to breathe soup 

Next up - decent running shoes as my Asics are starting to show signs of wear.


----------



## Bevo

25 k trail race next Saturday, can't wait!
My training has been good and yesterday did a long run with a fast guy in our group, 20k in 2 hours flat, my average heart rate for the run was 165bpm!
Looking at my profile we were averaging between 7-8 min miles for entire distance.

This was good to do and I feel really good today not too sore at all. Next week when the gun goes off I will do one mile at 9min then turn on my watch to alarm at 8min, this will keep me at a good speed for the entire race.

I hope to break 2:30 for the run.


----------



## daemon barbeque

I began to run again, and a mile is even too much. But I am sure i´ll get better pretty soon. I have new nike Lunar Glides an they rock. better than Pegasus, Vomero or even ASICS Nimbuses I wore before. Lovely movement, perfect cushioning.


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## Bevo

Those glides are sweet, I am on the fence but already have to many shoes.

Since my birthday I have started a streak, this means run everyday!
The guy who got me on it has run for get this 7340 days straight!
He even ran with a broken leg and with some medical problem that put him in the hospital for 2 weeks LOL!!

So far I am up to well, 5 days straight..I have a long way to go!
The only rule is you have to run 1 mile a day!


----------



## TimothyLeary

started to running like 3 months ago, but sunddenly I started to feel pain in my left hip and buttock and sometimes it extends to the groin area. I'm so pissed of, cause I really started to enjoy running and now I think if I go to the doctor he we tell me to rest for a very long time. f*c*


----------



## Bevo

TimothyLeary said:


> started to running like 3 months ago, but sunddenly I started to feel pain in my left hip and buttock and sometimes it extends to the groin area. I'm so pissed of, cause I really started to enjoy running and now I think if I go to the doctor he we tell me to rest for a very long time. f*c*



Tim

This is very common and should be an easy fix without the doctor.
You have a band of muscles that run from your butt to your calf as well as another set at the front of your legs.

So, stretching is what will fix you up and I am very sure it will fix you up.
To prove you need the stretch, try to touch your toes, second.. Get on your knees and sit on you ankles while leaning back with you body, last.. Get on one knee and put your foot under you body, you should feel your groin stretch.

Once or twice a day take 10 min and give yourself a good stretch, you will feel better within a few days.

If you need anything else please let me know!


----------



## Bevo

Finished my trail race yesterday and it was amazing!
25K in some wet cold weather, course was great as it went around a very large lake, no massive hills but a few good ones.

I ran it strong the entire way finishing at 2:30 according to my watch. The last 5K was harder that it should of been, I will have to adjust my training.

Highlight, I was moving up the pack pretty good and as it thined out I get behind this guy on some real narrow singletrack. He hears me and says I will let you by as soon as its wide enough no worries. We get chatting and he says, you have to catch up to that blonde girl up ahead, I ask why and he laughs.
Once I get around him I race up to this girl who is a 1/4 mile away, once i got close I seen why. Lets just say tights stretch but you still have to get the right size also wearing a white Thong with see through pants is not best but damn, I loved it!!!!
Only problem was she heard me racing up and stepped aside to let me through LOL!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Got some Fivefingers, the Bikila LS. They feel so natural after barefooting it for nearly 2 months, I managed to run 5 miles today with no pain.


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## ShadyDavey

Bevo said:


> Tim
> 
> This is very common and should be an easy fix without the doctor.
> You have a band of muscles that run from your butt to your calf as well as another set at the front of your legs.
> 
> So, stretching is what will fix you up and I am very sure it will fix you up.
> To prove you need the stretch, try to touch your toes, second.. Get on your knees and sit on you ankles while leaning back with you body, last.. Get on one knee and put your foot under you body, you should feel your groin stretch.
> 
> Once or twice a day take 10 min and give yourself a good stretch, you will feel better within a few days.
> 
> If you need anything else please let me know!





I'm breaking out a lot of the stretches I used to employ when I was heavily into martial arts - they help a lot in recuperation and recovery although I have had to lay back on the skipping to avoid painful shins regardless of stretches.

Time for new trainers as soon as humanly possible!


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## TimothyLeary

Bevo said:


> Tim
> 
> This is very common and should be an easy fix without the doctor.
> You have a band of muscles that run from your butt to your calf as well as another set at the front of your legs.
> 
> So, stretching is what will fix you up and I am very sure it will fix you up.
> To prove you need the stretch, try to touch your toes, second.. Get on your knees and sit on you ankles while leaning back with you body, last.. Get on one knee and put your foot under you body, you should feel your groin stretch.
> 
> Once or twice a day take 10 min and give yourself a good stretch, you will feel better within a few days.
> 
> If you need anything else please let me know!



Hi thanks for the tips. I've trying to run again and now I take two times more to stretch before running, and I think it helps. But even when I'm home, like sitting on a chair or even in bed, I feel a little pain, or if I'm standing up without moving, it hurts too. 

I will try to stretch when I'm home, even if I won't run. Btw, never in my life(as I can remember) I could touch my toes with my hands! And if I try it while standing up I can only pass my knees like 5 cm only!!


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## Bevo

TimothyLeary said:


> Hi thanks for the tips. I've trying to run again and now I take two times more to stretch before running, and I think it helps. But even when I'm home, like sitting on a chair or even in bed, I feel a little pain, or if I'm standing up without moving, it hurts too.
> 
> I will try to stretch when I'm home, even if I won't run. Btw, never in my life(as I can remember) I could touch my toes with my hands! And if I try it while standing up I can only pass my knees like 5 cm only!!



How far rare you running and at what speed, also how many days are you running a week?
For me when I started I wanted to run every day but I had the same problem running daily. I changed it to every other day but with both days on the weekend, this made a huge difference.

Now I am stepping it up and starting to run with one or two days off a week.
After my race this past weekend I have not run, I really want to but yesterday my knee and foot were sore, today I am ok but giving it one more day to recover.

What all this means is listen to you body, rest when your tired, don't run to fast, don't run to far and don't run to much. It's a balancing act that take some effort to get it right, don't give up you can do it!


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## Infamous Impact

What's a good way to increase your mile time? My mile right now is at 8:40 and I need to get it below 6:30 in three weeks to make track. I'm hoping it's not near impossible.


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## Bevo

I would try to do a short tempo run of 1 min which is at 90% of your maximum or longer at 3 min then cool down for a bit then do it again, do 4 reps for now every other day.
If your tired just go for an easy run the next day.
Don't even try the mile until 4 days before your test, take the time to work up to it.
If your not old and fat you can do it no problem.

One thing to think about is what are you going to do once you make the team, do you want to train and run with them?


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## MFB

I think I'm going to start training for a 5K that's happening in May, specifically this one : 5K Obstacle Course Zombie Race - Run For Your Lives

It's not a traditional 5K, but you still run the 3 miles, and I found a site that gives a good regiment to work on building up to a 5K that seems doable. Especially considering now I can run a solid mile in 11:30 if I run a good pace, or 10 minutes if I pretty much sprint, but the regiment I'm looking at is interval trainer, going more for overall workout versus short time.


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## troyguitar

I started running again a week ago after not doing it since high school (roughly 10 years). It's fucking hard. Did about 3 miles a day so far every day except took today off as my legs were getting sore and my whole body tired. I slept for 12 hours last night  On the plus side I'm down to 8 minutes for a mile from 10-11 and will hopefully get down to my school time of 6 minutes sooner than later.

I still don't (and never did, even when I did it regularly in school) understand how anyone can possibly claim that running energizes you. Running drains energy. It makes me tired. I run after work - if I did it before then I'd be dragging ass all day. Even when I was on the track team I was DEAD after practice every day. What gives?


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## MFB

I don't know, I mean, I feel tired immediately after my runs but throughout the day I feel like I've actually done something and have energy. I think when people say that, it's because they realize that running releases endorphins which give you more energy, so technically you SHOULD feel some after effects.


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## Origin

I seem to have lost an inordinate amount of weight, though I'm not sure how considering I haven't ran in a week cause of school shitstorm and have been eating more than normal. Muscle amount seems not to be impacted. I'm a little miffed, I might have to hold off on regular running for a bit until I can put aside enough time to concentrate on eating a shitload.


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> I would try to do a short tempo run of 1 min which is at 90% of your maximum or longer at 3 min then cool down for a bit then do it again, do 4 reps for now every other day.
> If your tired just go for an easy run the next day.
> Don't even try the mile until 4 days before your test, take the time to work up to it.
> If your not old and fat you can do it no problem.
> 
> One thing to think about is what are you going to do once you make the team, do you want to train and run with them?


Thanks for the advice, I'll try it and see if it helps. Are you sure though that I shouldn't try the mile for that long? I run 3 miles daily without much problem, since I'm in high school.


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## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> Thanks for the advice, I'll try it and see if it helps. Are you sure though that I shouldn't try the mile for that long? I run 3 miles daily without much problem, since I'm in high school.


 
Think of it like Sex, if you only do it once in a while your done fast, the more you do it the more control you get and you get better at it.

Running Tempo teaches you how to maintain a fast pace for a length of time. After doing it for a bit your slow pace will be much faster than it was before as will your fast pace.

You could try the mile once a week and it won't hurt now that I know your running 3 miles a day. The day before your mile test now and for the final skip the run the day before, it will give you fresh legs.

Also look at your stride, are you landing heel toe with a big stride leaning into it? if not try that and bring your knees up.
For every couple inches your stride gains you takes that much off the total length you run.
Keep trying new things and have fun!!


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Think of it like Sex, if you only do it once in a while your done fast, the more you do it the more control you get and you get better at it.
> 
> Running Tempo teaches you how to maintain a fast pace for a length of time. After doing it for a bit your slow pace will be much faster than it was before as will your fast pace.
> 
> You could try the mile once a week and it won't hurt now that I know your running 3 miles a day. The day before your mile test now and for the final skip the run the day before, it will give you fresh legs.
> 
> Also look at your stride, are you landing heel toe with a big stride leaning into it? if not try that and bring your knees up.
> For every couple inches your stride gains you takes that much off the total length you run.
> Keep trying new things and have fun!!


Thanks, I went on a quick tempo run and it's helped me with keeping my pace steady, something I could barely do before.


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## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> Thanks, I went on a quick tempo run and it's helped me with keeping my pace steady, something I could barely do before.



Right on, I also went for a fun and by adjusting my stride I was picking up some speed.
Today was my tempo run and I had a good 60 min averaging 7:10-30 for the hour.

The first time I tried it I could not keep it up for 2 min now an hour is no problem. Just keep at it and it will come!

At my last race I was doing a steady 7:20 pace and this guy flew by me, damn impressive!


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## troyguitar

Bevo said:


> Today was my tempo run and I had a good 60 min averaging 7:10-30 for the hour.


 
I think I would literally die if I did that 

How does this concept apply if there is no "easy run" for you? In other words, I cannot cool down unless I switch from running to walking.


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## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> I think I would literally die if I did that
> 
> How does this concept apply if there is no "easy run" for you? In other words, I cannot cool down unless I switch from running to walking.


The pain zone is home 
Bevo do you have any tips on sprints?


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## Bevo

troyguitar said:


> I think I would literally die if I did that
> 
> How does this concept apply if there is no "easy run" for you? In other words, I cannot cool down unless I switch from running to walking.


 
If your running at your max slow down to a trot, not a walk and not a run, this will help you slow your heart rate down faster and is easier on your body than just stopping.

Try this, next run listen to your breath at a comfortable fast pace then slow down still running to a easy comfy pace. You can feel and hear the difference in your breath.
Slow down to recover but don't stop, nothing wrong with stopping by the way, I do lots of walks in the trails.

If you do this during a run it will help you cover more distance than running till your spent then walking and doing it all over again.


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## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> The pain zone is home
> Bevo do you have any tips on sprints?


 
No jokes man!
The pain during running like that for two hours is nothing, well its managable. Its when your done, I was getting a coffee at shop and could not stand still in line, I looked like some dude on serious Crack. The pain is so bad it makes my eyes water and laugh like a nut..you just want to jump out of your skin!

Sprints of 100 meter you mean?
Those are pure power and it take muscle and practice, those guys can squat some serious weight.
If it was me I would train every 3 days for it with a few laps around the track to warm up then a few slow sprints for the full distance then a few fast.
Once my legs got tired I would do a few more for 20 feet then finish with a few laps.
You will need a few days to heal the muscles, think of it as weight training because that is what your doing.


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## Bevo

Origin said:


> I seem to have lost an inordinate amount of weight, though I'm not sure how considering I haven't ran in a week cause of school shitstorm and have been eating more than normal. Muscle amount seems not to be impacted. I'm a little miffed, I might have to hold off on regular running for a bit until I can put aside enough time to concentrate on eating a shitload.


 

Weight gain and loss is simple math, what you burn needs to equal what you eat. Changing that formula on either end will put on or take off weight.
Problem its not as simple when you factor what you eat and how much your metabolism burns.

I run with this burly guy on long runs and he will have a cup of oatmeal before the run, after he will have an apple then at dinner he will have something light. He is 5'11 and 190 and built like a tank...I don't get it.

I have no answer sorry, something did change and I would start looking at that. Maybe the studies have given you some stress that is doing something?


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## Bevo

troyguitar said:


> I started running again a week ago after not doing it since high school (roughly 10 years). It's fucking hard. Did about 3 miles a day so far every day except took today off as my legs were getting sore and my whole body tired. I slept for 12 hours last night  On the plus side I'm down to 8 minutes for a mile from 10-11 and will hopefully get down to my school time of 6 minutes sooner than later.
> 
> I still don't (and never did, even when I did it regularly in school) understand how anyone can possibly claim that running energizes you. Running drains energy. It makes me tired. I run after work - if I did it before then I'd be dragging ass all day. Even when I was on the track team I was DEAD after practice every day. What gives?


 
MFB is the same as me, I feel tired after but then have way more energy not to mention my sleep is so much more restfull.

Troy, I think your doing it wrong LOL!!
Your out there to go as fast as possible, slow down to 10 min miles and just relax. This is called LSD Long Slow Distance and its a staple in every runners week.
If I went out at my fastest pace every run I would be exhausted and would end up hurting myself.
Now that your starting, run every other day at that easy pace, you should be able to sing or talk easily. Once a week you can crank it and go hard but don't do it back to back days.

Once you have some good months in you will notice that your heart rate at the 10 min pace is much lower than when you started. Now you can pick it up to that same heart rate but probably at a 9:30 mile. This will continue as you get more miles in.

If your a natural you will easily be able to run 7's for an hour, if not 8's will be easy for you.
Slow down put the time in and the results will come plus you will find the running will get addictive!


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## troyguitar

The thing is I don't find 8 minute miles any easier or harder than 10 minute miles. Even at 10 minute pace I have to switch to walking after 4-6 laps. If I speed up to 8 minute pace I still stop to walk after 4-6 laps  The 10 minute pace is no easier at all.


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> No jokes man!
> The pain during running like that for two hours is nothing, well its managable. Its when your done, I was getting a coffee at shop and could not stand still in line, I looked like some dude on serious Crack. The pain is so bad it makes my eyes water and laugh like a nut..you just want to jump out of your skin!
> 
> Sprints of 100 meter you mean?
> Those are pure power and it take muscle and practice, those guys can squat some serious weight.
> If it was me I would train every 3 days for it with a few laps around the track to warm up then a few slow sprints for the full distance then a few fast.
> Once my legs got tired I would do a few more for 20 feet then finish with a few laps.
> You will need a few days to heal the muscles, think of it as weight training because that is what your doing.


Yes, 100 meters, and that's exactly what the coach told me, thanks. I think I'll be fine, I can squat 170 as a sophomore thanks to years of taekwondo making my calves and thighs made out of rock. I just need to get the speed up.


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## Bevo

troyguitar said:


> The thing is I don't find 8 minute miles any easier or harder than 10 minute miles. Even at 10 minute pace I have to switch to walking after 4-6 laps. If I speed up to 8 minute pace I still stop to walk after 4-6 laps  The 10 minute pace is no easier at all.



Troy
You need to spend some more time getting in shape, once your get better this will get easier.
It's no different than a new person running, every run is at maximum heart rate till it gets used to it.

Keep at it you will get better!
When I started I was running so slow people were walking past me and my heart rate was 155.
Now at that same pace it's 90 and I run 10 min miles at 130 9s at 140 and 7s at 160 so you will get there.


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## MFB

I just got back from the gym and boy are my legs...not that tired actually  /bad joke

Anywho, it's interesting to go back and reread my first post in this thread which surprisingly wasn't me ragging on Origin for liking to run; but in fact I was already back into jogging at the time, and I remember my mile on resistance three taking from 13-13:30 at a decent pace. Today I kept my pace around 150-160 max, and on resistance level four pulled out an 11:33 mile, and if that were on level three it probably would've cut off that extra minute to a minute thirty. Instead of stopping there I pushed it a little further and kept my pace the same and went to a 1.5 mile in 17:33, with that extra half mile clocking in at an even six minutes which is also rather odd since I never have even times  I figure if I keep up this pace for a little while and make it back to the gym regularly (I'm simultaneously in school, working and planning a cross country move to ANOTHER school) then I should be able to get up to 2 miles in probably 21 minutes, then move up to 2.5 and eventually hit my goal of 3 (which is a 5K) and then work on my time from there.


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## Guitarmiester

troyguitar said:


> I still don't (and never did, even when I did it regularly in school) understand how anyone can possibly claim that running energizes you. Running drains energy. It makes me tired. I run after work - if I did it before then I'd be dragging ass all day. Even when I was on the track team I was DEAD after practice every day. What gives?



I'm one of those people that has said to feel re-energized after running. Refreshed would be a more suitable word to use. To work 10 and a half hours a day, stressful days, and driving to and from making it almost 12 hour days going running afterward brings a new sense of energy back into my days. I'll run 4-5 miles with some scenery, relieve stress, and just enjoy nature along the way. I'm rarely tired after running. Not sure how or why.


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## Bevo

It's like a mental reset for me, the world looks different when I get home!


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## SenorDingDong

Buying "real" running shoes is a bad idea. Getting running shoes that help compensate for your footing is a mistake. It allows you to run in an unnatural way.

I use Vibram Five Fingers. 

Before them, I had supportive shoes for over-pronation. 

Now I can run much more comfortably because I am running the way my body was intended to.



If you are looking for speed work, try mile repeats, separated by a quarter mile jog rest. Do buildups, which is jog a 100, sprint a 100. Hill work is a godsend; hill repeats will allow you to shed tons of time.

I speak from my own experience. My average pace for a half marathon is 5:20 a mile. My personal record is a 4:47 mile. 

It's all about proper training. The less rest you get in between reps in speed work, the more your cardiovascular endurance builds. Your body will adapt to taking more punishment. 

I can't stress hill work enough. Hill work will train your muscles to take in more nutrients without building up lactic acid.

Reference:

This was from my Senior year in high school. I'm listed third under the 1600 meters in the third column(Jesse Griebel). I only ran a 4:56, but it is the only article I can find.

http://www.bristolobserver.com/04_30_10/25.pdf


Too much sprinting isn't good for anyone except sprinters, though, as it develops shorter muscles in short bursts. If you run longer distance still, use longer distance speed workouts. Doing a 5k with a warm up mile, a fast mile (80%), a build down mile (65%) and the last .1 miles as a cool down job is a great way to develop more control over your pacing.


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## Bevo

J
Good advice but keep in mind not everyone here is regular runners, they need a base before getting into fast running.

I agree about proper form and over compensating shoes but just as many that are in the wrong supportive shoes are also getting hurt in minimalist shoes.
Not trying to start an argument but the group needs to take the time get the right shoes whatever they are and also slowly build up the miles.

What distance are you running now, are you racing at all?


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## SenorDingDong

Bevo said:


> J
> Good advice but keep in mind not everyone here is regular runners, they need a base before getting into fast running.
> 
> I agree about proper form and over compensating shoes but just as many that are in the wrong supportive shoes are also getting hurt in minimalist shoes.
> Not trying to start an argument but the group needs to take the time get the right shoes whatever they are and also slowly build up the miles.
> 
> What distance are you running now, are you racing at all?



Running on the weekends at the gym now. Maintenance. About two to three miles, pace has slowed to about 5:30 range. Can't run outdoors in the winter because I have Eustachian Tube Dysfunction.


----------



## Murmel

Man, just started running (and working out) this week again after about 2 months of doing nothing. It's pretty fascinating how fast you loose cardio, I can't run nearly as far.

On the other hand, my arms seem to be stronger than ever


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## MFB

I'm still kind of baffled as to how I came back into running and working out in general, with my body accepting it. Like, before in school and such my body would just not do it and was generally shit overall, not to say it's much better now though. But when I first started setting up a routine, I just kind of guesstimated what I could lift for my arms, and then my legs, and so forth and I was actually greatly undershooting it somehow; perhaps because of work where I constantly lift cases of waters and such at a time for so long, I had built up a certain endurance and so forth.

My legs however were just like "Nah, we can run around a lot since you stand for hours at a time, it's cool bro" and sure enough there I was running 12-12:30 miles after years of being lazy.


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## Bevo

Right on guys to get back at it or start to run!

I highly recommend if your close to a running store to get involved in a running group. Lots of really great people run and no jokes there are more woman than men! One girl in our group does not know that a white thong and super thin black tights..every weekend! Thank god she is my speed so I get to run behind her LOL!!!

The social aspect of the group run is very fun, it makes the distance goes by super fast and makes you want run every time, try it..its free and a great way to meet people!


----------



## Cabinet

I've got back on running too. I ran 14:30 today and when I stopped and stretched after that I developed a weird pain in my left leg. It's above my achilles tendon but below the calf. It feels tight and can make it difficult to walk. I assume I just pulled something but I'm not so sure.


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## Infamous Impact

Have to give a shoutout to Bevo, got in the sprinters part of my school's track team with a 55.07s 400m, and lowered my mile to 6:15.


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## Bevo

Cabinet said:


> I've got back on running too. I ran 14:30 today and when I stopped and stretched after that I developed a weird pain in my left leg. It's above my achilles tendon but below the calf. It feels tight and can make it difficult to walk. I assume I just pulled something but I'm not so sure.


 

Dont sweat it yet, give it a few days and it should come around. Something that will help is a topical cream, this is pretty much Advil but in cream form, works amazing, its at you local drugstore.

What you did is probably go to hard or to fast on muscles that have not been used.
Best advice, go half as far as you want at half the speed you want to go then once that is super easy say after 2 weeks 8 runs then increase it by 5 min.

A good example is running on your fore foot or like you have no shoes on, it has the same affect as putting your toes on a step and doing calf raises. 
You can't do that for 20 min straight without getting hurt right?


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## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> Have to give a shoutout to Bevo, got in the sprinters part of my school's track team with a 55.07s 400m, and lowered my mile to 6:15.


 
Hot damn!!!

Right on, glad you got on the team...now the work begins!
Keep it fun and train hard!


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## troyguitar

Well after fucking up my knee during my first attempt at running, probably from overdoing it, I had to quit and let it heal for a few weeks. Just started up again after Thanksgiving at the same speeds but about half the distance and I don't quite feel like I'm going to die afterward now 

What I've noticed, though, is that my legs get worn out and start locking up long before my heart rate gets terribly high. I need a better monitor, but I'm running (jogging really, 10 min mile speed) somewhere around 120bpm. I'm hardly out of breath at all and could push on further if my damn legs would keep moving  I'm thinking about moving to running twice a day for a bit since the legs have so little endurance, might build them up more quickly.


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## Bevo

troyguitar said:


> Well after fucking up my knee during my first attempt at running, probably from overdoing it, I had to quit and let it heal for a few weeks. Just started up again after Thanksgiving at the same speeds but about half the distance and I don't quite feel like I'm going to die afterward now
> 
> What I've noticed, though, is that my legs get worn out and start locking up long before my heart rate gets terribly high. I need a better monitor, but I'm running (jogging really, 10 min mile speed) somewhere around 120bpm. I'm hardly out of breath at all and could push on further if my damn legs would keep moving  I'm thinking about moving to running twice a day for a bit since the legs have so little endurance, might build them up more quickly.


 
Nope, that will be worse!
Give it some time and only run every other day, its muscles and like in body building you need to give them time to heal and get stronger.

For me it goes in cycles, my legs are stronger than my cardio or the other way around.

10 min mile is a pretty fast pace if your just starting, drop down to a 10:30 for your next run and see if it helps.
What your doing is called LSD, long slow distance. This builds the endurance into your body, once it gets a good base your 10 min mile will be super easy.


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## Murmel

Am I the only one here who can't be arsed to run for more than 10 minutes while on a treadmill at the gym? It's so boring, I wanna hit the weights damnit 

Outdoors is another story, then I run till' my body won't let me anymore.


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## Infamous Impact

Murmel said:


> Am I the only one here who can't be arsed to run for more than 10 minutes while on a treadmill at the gym? It's so boring, I wanna hit the weights damnit
> 
> Outdoors is another story, then I run till' my body won't let me anymore.


I usually get someone to drop me off at the gym, lift weights, and run the 3 miles home. Much better than 45 minutes of cardio inside.


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## troyguitar

Murmel said:


> Am I the only one here who can't be arsed to run for more than 10 minutes while on a treadmill at the gym? It's so boring, I wanna hit the weights damnit



I find weights boring. I like to hit the treadmill and just get lost in thought... running outside takes too much concentration.


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## Bevo

Troy, the other day I went for a night run and I heard all this stuff like trees breaking and people screaming and growling, this was off a path very close to a street..Let just say I ran very fast for a very long time LOL!!

Just get dropped off in the bad part of town with a bright gold jacket and a dollar sign on the back, that will give you a workout eh!

I also have a gym membership, what a waste of money, I never go!
There is one close to me that has a pool and is where all the hotties work out, that would be more entertaining for sure but more money again..


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> I find weights boring. I like to hit the treadmill and just get lost in thought... running outside takes too much concentration.


It's different for everyone, I can't stand cardio machines, I'd much rather do something productive like get my strength up and then run to an actual place.



Bevo said:


> Troy, the other day I went for a night run and I heard all this stuff like trees breaking and people screaming and growling, this was off a path very close to a street..Let just say I ran very fast for a very long time LOL!!
> 
> Just get dropped off in the bad part of town with a bright gold jacket and a dollar sign on the back, that will give you a workout eh!
> 
> I also have a gym membership, what a waste of money, I never go!
> There is one close to me that has a pool and is where all the hotties work out, that would be more entertaining for sure but more money again..


I wish my town was that exciting... The scariest thing here is the weather.


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## troyguitar

Bevo said:


> Nope, that will be worse!
> Give it some time and only run every other day, its muscles and like in body building you need to give them time to heal and get stronger.
> 
> For me it goes in cycles, my legs are stronger than my cardio or the other way around.
> 
> 10 min mile is a pretty fast pace if your just starting, drop down to a 10:30 for your next run and see if it helps.
> What your doing is called LSD, long slow distance. This builds the endurance into your body, once it gets a good base your 10 min mile will be super easy.



These aren't long slow distance they are more like short slow distance. I'm talking 1.5 miles per run (15 minutes) - that's why I'm considering moving to twice a day so I'll at least be up to 3 miles. I did it one time last week and did not feel any worse the next day so will probably try it again tomorrow. It's either that or start increasing the distance or pace on the once-a-day runs, we'll see.

Keep in mind I'm not a total beginner, just restarting after a _long_ break. I used to run a 5:45 mile and 20:00 5k back in the day. 10 minute miles feel ungodly slow


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## Bevo

Troy just listen to your body then.
I would go longer myself before doing two a day, but that may be better for you.

Your problem is you remember your old pace, thats hard to get around. Try to just enjoy the run and not think of the old days.


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## SnowfaLL

wow running is a bitch.

I just started working out again after like. a really bad 4 years. I lived on my own for the first time, went to school (so stress thru the roof) and just ate all processed food/"comfort" food for basically 2 years straight with no exercise.. Went from a fit 180 to 230 during that time.

I just got accepted to the Canadian Forces at the end of Oct, with my basic training starting in Mid-January, so while I've been trying to fix my diet/exercising lightly the past few months, I only took it up a full notch at the start of November. Within one month, my upper body strength is back to where it used to be (shouldnt be an issue for the CF), im down to 210 (20lbs in one month) and diet is going great, but running is the hardest part.

I find at this point, my legs are conditioned back to where I am ok for it, but the hard part is the breathing. My lungs just suck, and probably doesnt help its usually -10 degrees when I go running (at 5AM every morning) so my lungs burn from breathing in the cold air. I tried using a scarf but it keeps falling off/getting in the way ugh.

Well, just gotta keep at it, hopefully another month of doing this everyday will get me to where I need to be for basic training. Or at least enough to not be totally embarassed lol


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## Bevo

Nick, good on you for that big loss!

When it's that cold out I cover my neck really well with out covering my mouth, this keeps my lungs from freezing.
You can also get a balaclava sp? That only covers your mouth but those suck for me.


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## Infamous Impact

NickCormier said:


> wow running is a bitch.
> 
> I just started working out again after like. a really bad 4 years. I lived on my own for the first time, went to school (so stress thru the roof) and just ate all processed food/"comfort" food for basically 2 years straight with no exercise.. Went from a fit 180 to 230 during that time.
> 
> I just got accepted to the Canadian Forces at the end of Oct, with my basic training starting in Mid-January, so while I've been trying to fix my diet/exercising lightly the past few months, I only took it up a full notch at the start of November. Within one month, my upper body strength is back to where it used to be (shouldnt be an issue for the CF), im down to 210 (20lbs in one month) and diet is going great, but running is the hardest part.
> 
> I find at this point, my legs are conditioned back to where I am ok for it, but the hard part is the breathing. My lungs just suck, and probably doesnt help its usually -10 degrees when I go running (at 5AM every morning) so my lungs burn from breathing in the cold air. I tried using a scarf but it keeps falling off/getting in the way ugh.
> 
> Well, just gotta keep at it, hopefully another month of doing this everyday will get me to where I need to be for basic training. Or at least enough to not be totally embarassed lol


Like Bevo said, wear a balaclava or some kind of face protection in the cold. Also, always breathe in through your stomach, it's much more efficient than your lungs. Don't just do it for running either, it helps with everything. It feels weird at first (you probably haven't done it since you were a baby), but after a while you'll be able to do it in your sleep.


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## SnowfaLL

Yea I gotta check out some running stores soon anyways, and pick up some actual running shoes. I use my dads shoes right now since all mine are completely flat skateboarding shoes, and it helps tremendously even though my dads shoes are not "running" shoes, just normal shoes with shape to them. I have one of those arch problems in my feet (forget what its called), so gotta find something to accomidate for that also. I'll also look into face protection.

Also; infamous_impact you talk about breathing in through your stomach.. kinda confused by that.. Do you mean just making sure my breaths are long and reach all the way down my lungs rather than short rapid breaths within my lungs? Whats the word on breathing through your nose? I keep hearing people say you should try to only breathe through your nose while running, as it tires you out less or something. Any advice on that? Right now, I start out with my nose but eventually go into puffing-heavy mouth breathing lol (obviously not good)


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## SnowfaLL

ooo another question.. What is better; Running once a day, or running twice or three times a day splitting up that time?

Cause so far, I find it hard to go for long periods of time running.. so I've been like going when I wake up, and 2-3 hours before I goto sleep. Is that good or should I try to go all in one session?

I've been using this "Couch potato to 5K" website as a basis, yet I ramped it up to 5 days a week, at two times per day (im on week 2, since I only found the site last week)

http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml


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## Bevo

Put your hand on your belly and try to lift it when you breath, doing this fills your lungs.

Breathing through your nose only is weird, not sure if I would ever do that. My heart rate when I run even easy makes me need to breathe through my mouth.
The only thing other breathing related is to blow or force your air out and not worry about getting it back. Forcing it will clear the lungs, your body will suck in all the air it wants.

Forgot about deep breathing, when your tired breath in until you feel like your blowing up a ballon. Do that a few times and it will calm you down and slow your heart rate.

Running in your dad shoes is bad, you go get your own mister!


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## SnowfaLL

Sorry I should of mentioned, my dad and I have the exact same size, for shoes and clothes.. so his pairs of shoes fit perfect. I borrow his steel-toes often when I have to do some jobs. Obviously though the problem is with the archs, so I do need a good running pair, but right now its the same as my own shoes which are totally flat (not good for running at all)

I'll work on the breathing stuff, thanks


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## Bevo

Nick, take your shoes off and lay a piece of paper on the floor, wet your feet with a cloth and step on the paper with all your weight, sit down and pull the paper off.
Or just watch this video to get an idea. Take This Simple Test To Learn Your Foot Type

This will tell you all you need to know and what to do about it.


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## SirMyghin

NickCormier said:


> Sorry I should of mentioned, my dad and I have the exact same size, for shoes and clothes.. so his pairs of shoes fit perfect. I borrow his steel-toes often when I have to do some jobs. Obviously though the problem is with the archs, so I do need a good running pair, but right now its the same as my own shoes which are totally flat (not good for running at all)
> 
> I'll work on the breathing stuff, thanks



You are over thinking this one, the best way to run is barefoot, no shoes at all, it allows proper, natural motion.


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo nailed everything you asked about breathing. Also, do what Myghin said, I guarantee you that going barefoot SAFELY on a soft place with no sharp objects abd running in proper form is the best thing you can do. It'll fix up your arches and train your calves hard at the same time.


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## Bevo

While I also recommend running barefoot I say do it to learn but use minimal shoes yet run the same way. The barefoot motion really trains your body to run properly.

On the other hand there is a ton of new injuries related to running barefoot. These injuries are pretty typical even for those with shoes just more frequent.
It's called the too's run too much, run too fast and run too far, each one of them will get you.

With barefoot also comes damage to the skin and bones that you don't get with shoes.
I support barefoot but if you do then be extra careful and watch out for those sharp things on the ground!


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## Infamous Impact

Remember to never let your heels touch the ground too. I did that on a three mile run. Blisters for weeks.


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## SnowfaLL

well guys to be honest, I dislike running.. and am only doing this for the military fitness testing; After I can comfortably run 7km consistently, I'll do that like 3 times a week to maintain that but I have no intention of running marathons or anything in the future. So running barefoot wouldnt really be beneficial since when im in basic training, I will require shoes there (also running outside, probably in snow/slush/mud, doesnt sound good for my feet) 

Overall though, Im more of a weights/gym type person when it comes to fitness.. I go an hour on a stationary bike everyday and if I didnt require to pass this beep test thing, that would be all the cardio I would do. I hate running lol 

Anyways; another question.. I got my shoes finally (one pair of Asics and another Nike for inside running) and been increasing my distance twice as long from the past few weeks.. What im curious though, is it better to alternate sprinting/walking or a medium jog for longer then a short walking period, back to jog?? My uncle used to run a lot and told me sprinting is the way to go, but then again I think he was talking with the goal of losing weight in mind, where is I am at the weight I want to be finally and just want to increase my lung capacity/distance running. Jogging is what I should be doing, correct?

Is it more beneficial to run everyday or just to run 3-4 times a week? Like I said, kinda on a time constrant to get where I need to be; I have about 5 weeks left.. so right now I run 6 days a week. Should I just run 4 times a week to let my legs heal a bit or am I fine at 6 days a week?


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## Bevo

I think your better off 4 days a week with one run a bit longer than the others.
Speed should be just a bit faster than easy for the bulk of the run but speed up but not sprint for part of it.

Sprinting will help you run fast but not long, running faster longer will burn more weight and train your body to get used to the effort not to mention help your heart.

If your going to be running with full gear in the snow then that's how you should train. Going shoeless to army boots is going to kick your ass. Maybe do one run a week in your boots with a light pack.


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## Fiction

Just did my first run. I told myself on christmas I was going to for a run yesterday, but woke up with the flu on boxing day. Anyways I was cleared up this morning, just got back from roughly 4-5km run with walking. I was just alternating between 1:30 Running and 3:30 and I did that 9 times.

Holy shit, my heart is pumping hard and i'm sweaty. But I have to say, running with a really nice breeze focusing on breathing is really relaxing. I also listened to some BTBAM As I ran 

Anyways, I've finally started.. heres to not giving up 

I've also spoken to my step dad who does 200Km rides (Racing bikes) and he said he'll cover half the cost of a nice bike for me if I can commit to training, and he wants to see me doing 105Km by the end of the year (A race called Loop the lake). Fitness is fun haha.. This section of the forum has actually got me to finally do it as I've wanted to ever since around year 9. (18 now)


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## Bevo

Nice!

Your on your way, the more you do it the easier it will be.
That bike offer sounds pretty amazing, get after it and have fun!

Best advice.....sweat every day!


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## Fiction

Thanks man, I wanted to give my legs a bit of a rest today but still do something as they're pretty sore, so I just went for a bit of a skate around the area which is overly hilly, so I still raised the heart beat a bit.

When I get my bike i'll probably alternate days with a run, ride then rest..


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## Fiction

So it's now almost 3 weeks in and I'm feeling a lot fitter, less strain in my breathing as a I run and I've been covering more distance each run, but I've hit what was expected seeing as I've always had the issue, my knees. After this mornings run my knees have been hurting a lot, I read that during stretching any hypertension on the knee is bad, which I thought the way I was doing lunges and toe touches we're correct but apparently it's too much strain on the knees. Hopefully I'll be fine by tomorrow or atleast the day after and I won't stretch it as I have been. Other than that is there any other way to prevent this that i should focus on, maybe running form or or padded joggers, I've just been using my converse as its all I got.


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## Bevo

It's your shoes dude!

Are you landing on your heels, mid foot or fore foot?
If you land on your heels it's a huge shock to your knees.
If you land on your mid foot it spreads the load taking the weight off your knees, I run this way.
If you land forefoot your using your ankle and legs to absorb the shock which is like running bare foot, this is best for the knees.

Also stretch your IT band, this is the muscles on the side of your leg. They get tight and pull your knee cap over giving you the runners knee. Look up the stretches and do it every day, it will really help.

Keep at it and get some new shoes or take them off and run bare foot!


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## Bevo

Double post?


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## Fiction

I'd land fore-foot. I'll check out those stretches and invest in some proper shoes haha


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## Bevo

If you go that way do it only for a small part of your run then do a bit more the next day.
What happens is you use your calf as a spring and its not used to it, if you over do it which is super easy you will be walking funny and in some serious pain..

Take it slow!


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## Infamous Impact

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/the-holy-grail-in-speed-training/default.aspx
Pretty good article on strength training and how it helps your sprinting. I've been following it for a month and my deadlift went up from 190lbs-225lbs and my I've seen my times drop faster than my other teammates.


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## Bevo

Great article!

I have been doing that but with girly weights and its helped me run up hills I walked up before. Its also improved my pace/effort so faster pace with less effort.

This and core training really helped me become faster.


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## Infamous Impact

Just some good things for form:
Welcome to Good Form Running

So I decided that I'm going to start running distance over summer after track is over. Since all my running training consists of C25K for a month then sprinting, can someone (Bevo) give me a crash course on running more than half a mile?


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## Fiction

That video was so relaxing until 2 minutes in 

I wish the roads in my area were good to run barefoot. Save me spending money on shoes


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## Bevo

That was a good video but gives me nightmares, I was racing a hilly trail race and a guy with those short short kept running up the wall type steep hill in front of me......ew.....don't look up!!

So, number one don't run for distance run for time, start with 15 min easy easy like old man slow..when your done you should be warm not hot. You should be able to sing death metal style no problem.
Run every other day and try to land on anything but your heels.

Next week kick it up to 20 at the same pace, you are over a mile now easy. If you feel ok pick up the pace in the middle of the run just a bit so your breathing like bay watch Pamela has your finger in her mouth, no more than a few min cause you get to stick you finger in again...make sure your pace is always super comfortable.

What your doing is brick work, laying down the foundation and getting your muscles stronger as well as your heart. The little bit of speed is to stress your heart out a bit so it can do a bigger load.

If you time yourself over a part of your run you will notice after a few weeks that easy pace is much faster than when you started.

Another thing to do is look in your area for a running room store, they offer two free runs per week for any level, join up so your running with others..lots of girls in these groups...just saying..

Bottom line be consistent every other day and even more important is go slower, after a month or two you will be easily able to do 10 min miles for 40 min!!

Always feel free to pm me..


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## Fiction

I've just been alternating between jogging and walking, is that still alright? I've been using an iPhone app which tells you when to start and stop running. At the moment I'm doing 1:30 Run then 3:30 Walk 9 times, After todays run, I up it to 2 Min Run then 3 Min walk.

Also, Since I started running i've gone from 81Kg down to 76Kg and I've been doing Push-ups/Sit-ups and my stomach has noticeably flattened 

Edit; 

I tried a different route today.
*Mother**fucker* Hills hurt.


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## Bevo

Impact has been running so that was more for person who has been running.

Fiction, what you can do besides following your program is to jog instead of walk when your run period is over. Running slow will lower your heart rate just as good as walking but trains your body to run non stop.
Same deal, go slow and be consistant.

That weight loss is amazing!
Sit ups suck!!!!
Do planks, front, left, right and back or reverse...do one set of those followed by some push ups, get up and do some squats with your body weight all non stop.
That is a huge workout that only takes 20 min.
I do that every morning!


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## Fiction

Yeah I was surprised, I'd say my changed diet has really helped.

I've cut out fatty snacks like biscuits/chips/crackers, might have an apple every now and then as a snack but other than that only breakfast, lunch/dinner. And I've been making things like Chicken Schnitzel Salads for dinner and whatnot. Also gone from doing 10 pushups with sore arms the next day up until 40 and waking up without any pain. I'm so amazed by progress.


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> That was a good video but gives me nightmares, I was racing a hilly trail race and a guy with those short short kept running up the wall type steep hill in front of me......ew.....don't look up!!
> 
> So, number one don't run for distance run for time, start with 15 min easy easy like old man slow..when your done you should be warm not hot. You should be able to sing death metal style no problem.
> Run every other day and try to land on anything but your heels.
> 
> Next week kick it up to 20 at the same pace, you are over a mile now easy. If you feel ok pick up the pace in the middle of the run just a bit so your breathing like bay watch Pamela has your finger in her mouth, no more than a few min cause you get to stick you finger in again...make sure your pace is always super comfortable.
> 
> What your doing is brick work, laying down the foundation and getting your muscles stronger as well as your heart. The little bit of speed is to stress your heart out a bit so it can do a bigger load.
> 
> If you time yourself over a part of your run you will notice after a few weeks that easy pace is much faster than when you started.
> 
> Another thing to do is look in your area for a running room store, they offer two free runs per week for any level, join up so your running with others..lots of girls in these groups...just saying..
> 
> Bottom line be consistent every other day and even more important is go slower, after a month or two you will be easily able to do 10 min miles for 40 min!!
> 
> Always feel free to pm me..


Thanks Bevo, I ran 2 miles in 12-13ish minutes yesterday but I was breathing pretty heavy at the end, so I'll try your workout when I have time. And I'm still in high school, so I can just ask one of the XC girls to run with me for group runs .


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## Bevo

Right on guys!

Not sure if I mentioned this but I will ... again.

When I started to run early last season my heart rate and speed were as "A" one month later "B" and at the peak of racing "C"

A, 150bpm heart 10:50 mile
B, 150bpm heart 9:50 mile
C, 150bpm heart 8:40 mile

So the same effort and heart rate but much faster per month!
Another even bigger thing was that 150 felt effortless at the end of the season and damn hard at the begining.
A typical race I will average 160-170bpm over 2-6 hours.

My run a few hours ago I was 150bpm at 10:20 a mile, I have slowed down a bit and am working through a muscle tear.

Keep at it and it will come, and it will come fast!


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## Infamous Impact

Rolled my ankle today doing box jumps . Also PR'd on my squats, benches, and deadlifts (220,185,230 respectively). Also, my school has multiple floors with no elevators. On top of that, there's a meet on Saturday and districts are next week. This next week will NOT be fun.


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## Bevo

RICE, Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation.. this will help plus some advil.
If it does not hurt to bad tomorrow go for it, ache is ok, bit sore is ok, pain is bad as well as the injury hurting your form.

A few times i have had to run out of trails after doing that, I was able to walk it off to a bit then get back to running.


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## Fiction

I just joined my local Parkour group! That'll be fun.

Also just started doing squats (Jump and Thrust), Lunges inbetween my pushup/pull-up routine I've started.


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## Bevo

Is that not a Burpee?
Try it, its a great cardio excersize thats good enough for the military!

I whish I could parkour, just to old for that now but man does it look like fun!!!


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> RICE, Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation.. this will help plus some advil.
> If it does not hurt to bad tomorrow go for it, ache is ok, bit sore is ok, pain is bad as well as the injury hurting your form.
> 
> A few times i have had to run out of trails after doing that, I was able to walk it off to a bit then get back to running.


Got the x rays back today, nothing's broken, but I'll be out for a week.


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## Infamous Impact

On a side note, I REALLY want a pair of these:
Soft Star Shoes: ORIGINAL RunAmoc<br/>Black LITE


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## Bevo

I seen a guy run past my house in something like that a few times. We met up at the local park where I was running my dog barefoot and he ran by barefoot as well.

He claims they last forever and are as close to running in a sock as he can find..

I just bought some new Nike Free's, these will be my new road shoes. I had just over 1,000Km on my Mizunos which is damn good, buddy has 2500Km on his Nike Free's.
Lets see how they hold up!


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## Infamous Impact

I borrowed my friend's Nike Frees a couple of times when I forgot my shoes in PE. They're extremely comfortable, not to mention very nice looking.


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## Guitarmiester

I FINALLY went running since moving back in October! I've got some serious work to do. I was used to doing 4-5 miles in 25-30 minutes without having to stop or really slow down and zero breathing issues. I figured I'd get back into running by starting off small with only 1.5 miles and it kicked my ass! 

I'm in good shape to be running, it's just I really need to get my breathing back up to where I was at. Also, I better not make the mistake of forgetting my gloves. My hands were numb.


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## Ibanezsam4

Infamous Impact said:


> On a side note, I REALLY want a pair of these:
> Soft Star Shoes: ORIGINAL RunAmoc<br/>Black LITE



great.. i now have shoe gas...


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## Bevo

Been running trails in the snow with some kind of chain traction device on, so far no falls and there were some amazing mornings!

I have been running in all types of snow and the only change from my summer shoes is the addition of Merino Wool socks, not once have I had cold feet and there was some damn cold days!!


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## Infamous Impact

Broke several PR's in the last 2 days as I competed in regionals for track! 50.23 on the 400 and 23.09 on the 200! Plus I finally broke the 6 minute mile barrier and got 5:40 for a quick mile over the weekend.


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## Bevo

Right on!!
Thats amazing you met and exceeded your goals!


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Right on!!
> Thats amazing you met and exceeded your goals!


Thanks Bevo, you're one of the reasons I managed to do just that! This has been an amazing season for me too, I never was athletic before it, so this is a huge achievement for me.


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## Bevo

Your welcome but its all you, only you can do this!!

What you need to take from this is a major life lesson that I try to teach everyone, its simple.
To struggle then exel at something (whatever it is) will teach you that no matter what you want to do in life no matter how hard or impossible can be done if you put the effort in!!

Determination and hard work will beat talent every day!!

Whenever you get down or think you can't do something look back at this, it will help you see that your better than you think you are!!!


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## Guitarmiester

Just gotta keep at it. Running for the first time in a few months last weekend was kind of disappointing that I struggled and my breathing kicked my ass. Went running a few times during the week and already noticed improvement, but it's gonna take a little while to get back to my old running self. 

I may check out those Five Finger shoes tomorrow. I've been wanting to get a pair for a while.


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## samdaman87

Running and doing cardio is fun  Specially of you accompany it with some fast pace metal . I tend to listen to slow and heavier stuff when I am lifting weights. Fast music = Fast Running!


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## samdaman87

This will help you if running is really boring.


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## Ibanezsam4

i have a new motivation for running! its called "run more so i dont get my ass kicked every time i decide to go for a quick jaunt".. went out for the first time in a long time, my breathing was terrible, and i was miserable. but thats what i get for taking breaks like that. 
on another note, this was the maiden run for the pair of ZEMGear 360 running slippers that i got the other day. better ground feel than a Vibram, better price.. now we just have to see how many miles they last.


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## Bevo

Nice shoes, they may be nice to have for gym stuff and running the dog, will have to see if they are available out here.

Today I had a good run in the woods, used my chains and didn't slip to much. It was cold and windy but in the trees it was good. Only problem was my right foot was always finding the thin ice so it got wet!
For you guys that run in the cold, snow or wet get some wool socks, they are amazing at keeping you warm when wet!!!!!!!!


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## Fiction

Just got back from my first run in a few weeks, I've literally been busy non-stop and could not bring myself to wake up an hour early before school to do so, then last week my schedule calmed down, but we had down pours every day, so anyways come today.. sunshine!

Ran 4kms, I was doing around 6-7 (With walking of course) 4 weeks ago. But today I ran a lot more than walking, and was doing sprints in the middle just for fun. Got home 20 minutes ago, had a shower... still sweating like crazy.

Feels good, man.

Oh and question, I usually run for around an 50 mins to an hour every second day (What I was doing) Should I do this, or do half an hour every day?


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## Infamous Impact

Fiction said:


> Oh and question, I usually run for around an 50 mins to an hour every second day (What I was doing) Should I do this, or do half an hour every day?


Good job! Keep running and you'll be in shape in no time! Now to answer your question, it's all up to your personal preference. I usually save any run that above 30 mins for my long run on Sundays (1-1 1/2 hrs).


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## Bevo

Getting back into it is always hard but it will come around in a few weeks, just keep at it.
If you ran longer before i would not do the same distance, start slow and work yourself back up, ad 5 min a week or a bit more if it starts getting too easy.

I am still working through and injury and adding 1k a week to each run so far so good.

Do you have a goal or are you running for fitness?

Infamouse, are you also training for something?

I have a 30k trail race April 28 that I am working towards, after that its one or two races a month till November.


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## Fiction

Just fitness really, and a way to clear my mind, besides all the panting, sweating and heart pumping, it's relaxing 

Good luck with the race, at the moment I have no goal to run for any races or charity runs, but I would if I ever got to the point that I could.


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Infamouse, are you also training for something?


I sprint and do the triple jump for my school's track team right now, but I'm looking to do a few distance races over summer and do Cross Country in fall.
Good luck on your 30k!


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## Bevo

Cool, you should sign up for a small 5k race in your area.
As a sprinter you may do well if you do it like 5 intervals, go hard back off and coast then do it again till your done!

This would help your training and get you some more speed and endurance!


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## troyguitar

Bleh, the place I moved to this month is on a 35mph road with no sidewalks and doesn't have a treadmill so I've given up on running until I have some extra $ for a treadmill. Only got up to ~2 miles at 8 minutes/mile, getting into shape takes a lot longer than getting out of shape


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Cool, you should sign up for a small 5k race in your area.
> As a sprinter you may do well if you do it like 5 intervals, go hard back off and coast then do it again till your done!
> 
> This would help your training and get you some more speed and endurance!


Thanks for the advice. I run 300m+ up to the 1000m, so half my training is with distance, and I usually run 4-5 miles at a 7-8 min pace, what pace should I run a 5k based on that and a 5:32 mile? Also, I had to do sprints in bipolar weather, snow, sun, snow ,sun, wind, rain, snow, sun. Sucked.


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## Bevo

I would get a good warm up so you can start flat out.

Start at 7 or better or 80% for 1-2k then speed up to 90% for 1-2k then flat out for the last K!
Your looking at around 21 min and should have nothing left!
Just cool down with a light run to get you rate down.

I love that flat out feeling, one race I was flat out for 90 min, my heart rate was 170 the entire time. Me and my bud were going for the win with two other guys trying to do the same. I came second by half a step and we killed the course record by 12 min over 30k in the trails!

My heart was so tired for a few days, walking up stairs was impossible.. My heart would pound by the 5th step.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> I would get a good warm up so you can start flat out.
> 
> Start at 7 or better or 80% for 1-2k then speed up to 90% for 1-2k then flat out for the last K!
> Your looking at around 21 min and should have nothing left!
> Just cool down with a light run to get you rate down.
> 
> I love that flat out feeling, one race I was flat out for 90 min, my heart rate was 170 the entire time. Me and my bud were going for the win with two other guys trying to do the same. I came second by half a step and we killed the course record by 12 min over 30k in the trails!
> 
> My heart was so tired for a few days, walking up stairs was impossible.. My heart would pound by the 5th step.


Thanks for the advice and the story. I just signed up for a 5K on St. Patrick's day in my area!


----------



## Bevo

Cool, that will be fun but hard...don't puke!!

Just make sure you train the way you will race at least once then start the race hot and sweaty...When the gun goes sprint!!!

What do you think..22-24 min?


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Cool, that will be fun but hard...don't puke!!
> 
> Just make sure you train the way you will race at least once then start the race hot and sweaty...When the gun goes sprint!!!
> 
> What do you think..22-24 min?


Actually going for a sub-21 min 5k, and a 5:25 mile an hour before (fun run). My girlfriend'll be pacing me at 6:30, she's hella fast for a cross country chick, and we both got the rookie award for sprinters this year . Can't be good if you're not ambitious.


----------



## Bevo

Exciting, sub 21 is flat out flying!!!

Make a deal with her and let her know this race is for your PB time so you wan't to do it on your own. Train together but don't race together....trust me!

I wish my girl would run even 10% of what I do, it would be so cool to share some of my amazing runs with her..


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Exciting, sub 21 is flat out flying!!!
> 
> Make a deal with her and let her know this race is for your PB time so you wan't to do it on your own. Train together but don't race together....trust me!
> 
> I wish my girl would run even 10% of what I do, it would be so cool to share some of my amazing runs with her..


We're too competitive, and this is my first distance race. I'll be expected to lose to her, hehe.


----------



## MFB

Only cardio I'm doing right now is the 1.5 mile walk to/from school and that's it  I'm gonna start putting in applications for jobs so I can get some income again, since my job back home couldn't transfer me to a store out here, and once I do that I'll get a gym membership up the street. It's kind of expensive ($60/month) but my health insurance reimburses me part of it if I go x amount of times per month, so it's a little less, plus it's close to my apartment so I can do more cardio and not worry about getting home with leg pains (no car, only means of transportation = walking)


----------



## Bevo

Besides running I have been doing the bodyrocktv.com workouts.
It's free and in 12 min your ass is kicked!

It's basically non stop 50 seconds on 10 sec break to move to next one then hard at it again.
I do her workout then some abs and in 20 min I am done!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Besides running I have been doing the bodyrocktv.com workouts.
> It's free and in 12 min your ass is kicked!
> 
> It's basically non stop 50 seconds on 10 sec break to move to next one then hard at it again.
> I do her workout then some abs and in 20 min I am done!


I wish sprinting and lifting weights didn't take everything out of you, some of that stuff looks fun to do.


----------



## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> We're too competitive, and this is my first distance race. I'll be expected to lose to her, hehe.



Good luck!

Let us know how you make out!!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Good luck!
> 
> Let us know how you make out!!


I ran my first long distance race today. It was a surreal experience. The entire place was packed and full of energy. I ran the mile an hour before the 5k, and got 5:55.68, it's not what I wanted, but I was still waking up for the day, and I'm not too down about it. Now the 5k, that was something else entirely. I started it off at the back so I didn't shoot out and get tired. The first 2 miles I glided by, then the last one the lactic acid started to hit me. I was flying the whole time, my girlfriend kept a grueling 20:30 pace for the last mile so I couldn't lag behind. Well, I slowed down a good bit and really had to push for the last half of mile 3. Then the last 200m came and I flew as I sprinted. Got 20:45.22. I wasn't anything special as a lot of my teammates were there too, but I'm proud of myself.


----------



## Bevo

Sweet you hit your goal and you got caught in traffic, next time you can use what you know to do even better...teens are very possible for you!!

If you start at the front and meter your energy out by starting slow then ramping up to finish fast you would kill it!

Do you want to try another?

I also love the energy at some of the events although trail races tend to have fewer people and is more like a big group run where you know people.


----------



## Origin

With school and winter pissing me off I managed to make enough mental excuses not to run much. Slowly getting back into it now; my record for 5k was 21 minutes before (timed with BoO and VoM songs ) and I'm at about 24-25 right now. I take a couple walking breaks in between, so I really think I just need to grow my balls back and start pitching forward the entire time. The route around my house is hilly as balls -___- though of course that's a benefit in the end.
Weight went up to about 160, but it was only down to 154 before, I was 185 prior to the whole 'maybe I should try to be fit' thing, and I'm 6'1" so I'm alright with that. I think it's partially some muscle tissue as I've been doing my little weight exercises a fair amount more. I don't goddamn understand the weight all in all though, I'm really not an ectomorph in appearance or fact.  

tl;dr the OP of the thread's been a lazy bitch and is finally slapping himself on the head! Thanks for posting this stuff Bevo, Infamous and everyone else, it's definitely encouraging me to get off my ass.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Origin said:


> With school and winter pissing me off I managed to make enough mental excuses not to run much. Slowly getting back into it now; my record for 5k was 21 minutes before (timed with BoO and VoM songs ) and I'm at about 24-25 right now. I take a couple walking breaks in between, so I really think I just need to grow my balls back and start pitching forward the entire time. The route around my house is hilly as balls -___- though of course that's a benefit in the end.
> Weight went up to about 160, but it was only down to 154 before, I was 185 prior to the whole 'maybe I should try to be fit' thing, and I'm 6'1" so I'm alright with that. I think it's partially some muscle tissue as I've been doing my little weight exercises a fair amount more. I don't goddamn understand the weight all in all though, I'm really not an ectomorph in appearance or fact.
> 
> tl;dr the OP of the thread's been a lazy bitch and is finally slapping himself on the head! Thanks for posting this stuff Bevo, Infamous and everyone else, it's definitely encouraging me to get off my ass.


Well good job coming back into running! There's nothing better than feeling the wind against your face when you run.


----------



## Bevo

Yes welcome back!

Today I had a rough run, my legs felt like concrete blocks but I kept at it and after 45 min LOL I felt normal..

Don't worry about the hard runs as you get back..things will get better!


----------



## Origin

Sure enough. You guys beat the living shit out of me though.  I've really got to work on endurance. School's almost over for me, I think I'll try and step it up then.


----------



## Bevo

Why don't you jump in and sign up for a small 10K race in June, it will help to have a goal and you should be able to bang it off in 60 min..


----------



## Bevo

Last night I read a report about Protien and runners, they are saying that a long distance runner needs more than double what a normal person would. 
The amount they are talking is 1 gram per pound of body weight which is pretty crazy for me, is that not body body builder amounts?

The reason they say is after we get to a point in our run we use up all our glycogen and we then start to catobolize our muscles or eat them.

I can actualy see that, some of the guys I run with have no muscle yet have some fat, I also seem to have a problem getting stronger beyond my legs.

I keep my protien around 50-60 grams a day for my 150lb, to triple it would be damn hard!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Last night I read a report about Protien and runners, they are saying that a long distance runner needs more than double what a normal person would.
> The amount they are talking is 1 gram per pound of body weight which is pretty crazy for me, is that not body body builder amounts?
> 
> The reason they say is after we get to a point in our run we use up all our glycogen and we then start to catobolize our muscles or eat them.
> 
> I can actualy see that, some of the guys I run with have no muscle yet have some fat, I also seem to have a problem getting stronger beyond my legs.
> 
> I keep my protien around 50-60 grams a day for my 150lb, to triple it would be damn hard!


Bro you just need to eat more. the average American gets 70g of protein in their diet. Almost all athletes should get 1g protein per lb of bodyweight. You have height and weight on me yet I eat 3x more than you. You don't need to be eating 4k cals a day to bulk up but you should be eating a lot more so being a skeletal distance runner doesn't affect any strength goals like getting stronger legs.


----------



## Bevo

That much is going to be hard to do although I will try.
I started to count everything and got up to 110 today, I think with a few changes it will be possible with no meat.

The good news is I will find some new food to try, I may also get a jug of Vega vegan protein powder.

Let's see what happens!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> That much is going to be hard to do although I will try.
> I started to count everything and got up to 110 today, I think with a few changes it will be possible with no meat.
> 
> The good news is I will find some new food to try, I may also get a jug of Vega vegan protein powder.
> 
> Let's see what happens!


Oh, being a vegan obviously makes it a lot more challenging. Come back with what you get on that front!


----------



## Origin

I don't want to get into long-distance for that reason, I want to be able to build myself WITHIN REASON after/while killing off what extra fat remains at all on my body without worrying TOO much about extra food. (still a fair amount but I haven't been watching my diet or exercise the last few months ) This is all very long term in my head, but yeah.

On that note a 10k sounds like a great idea, the effort toward upgrading to at least that distance is really past due for me. >_> 

Vegan diet is doable, plenty of sources on the internet though I'm sure you've seen them haha. Go for it!  And like Impact said, let us know. I'd love some recommendations to try.


----------



## Necris

I'm trying to convince myself to start running but can't seem to get past the fact that I fucking hate it. Someone needs to motivate me.


----------



## Fiction

It's a great way to getaway from the wife/kids/schoolwork/parents/siblings/anything whilst listening to a favorite album of yours.


SO DO IT.


----------



## Bevo

Thanks guys!

So far I have cheated, the Vega protein powder is 26 grams and the bar is 15, both taste surprisingly good! Having the bar after any run over one hour really set the tone for the next run as long as I eat while sweating. It feels like the fuel goes right into your body.

I also searched for higher protein breads, in addition to my morning egg white omlette I have now doubled its size so instead of the 20 it gives me its now 40 and I have the other half in the afternoon.

With various nuts you get different amounts so look them up, Almonds and Acai are preffered in roasted and lightly salted.

I also found a higher pro Hummus that helps.

The last thing I have done is eat a bit of something before bed even a slice of toast with nut butter, that is an easy 10g.

So only meat based thing is the egg whites, everything else is Vegan.

Energywise I feel no different yet some steep hills where you have to power hike I can now run. Recovery is a bit faster but that may just be from eating right away.

My longest run in the last two weeks was 33K and it was comfortable, only thing I ate was Cliff shot blocks and Nutrigrain bars with water over the 3 hours.

My weeks are around 75K over 5 runs right now.


----------



## Bevo

Necris said:


> I'm trying to convince myself to start running but can't seem to get past the fact that I fucking hate it. Someone needs to motivate me.


 

Do you like girls?
Do you like talking to them?
Do you want to look at them for an hour or more a few days a week?
Do you like to stare at there butts and not feel bad?
Do you like how girls smell?
Do you like girls in yoga pants?
Do you like cam..el to..e?
Do you like free stuff that gives you all the above?

If so, go to your local running shop and join the twice a week running group!
The groups are super friendly and lots of fun, not to mention a great way to meet people!


----------



## MFB

Bevo said:


> Do you like girls?!



You lost him already


----------



## Bevo

Did you guys hear the fellow from the Born to Run book, Cabo Blanco was found dead after a being missing for a few days.
He had left for a 12 mile run and never returned.

At this point they don't know what happened other than no violence.
Sad day for the Ultra and Trail running world.

BREAKING: Micah True found dead in Gila National Forest - Silver City Sun-News


----------



## Murmel

Bevo said:


> Do you like men?
> Do you like talking to them?
> Do you want to look at them for an hour or more a few days a week?
> Do you like to stare at their butts and not feel bad?
> Do you like how men smell?
> Do you like men in yoga pants?
> Do you like ass..cr..ack..s?
> Do you like free stuff that gives you all the above?


Fixed that for ya


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Did you guys hear the fellow from the Born to Run book, Cabo Blanco was found dead after a being missing for a few days.
> He had left for a 12 mile run and never returned.
> 
> At this point they don't know what happened other than no violence.
> Sad day for the Ultra and Trail running world.
> 
> BREAKING: Micah True found dead in Gila National Forest - Silver City Sun-News


Oh god. Caballo was an inspiration for me. He will be missed. RIP.


----------



## Bevo

My first trail race on the season is in a few days a I have a cold, man that sucks!!
Its a head cold so hopefully it will stay away from the chest and I can still race!!


----------



## Handbanana

Running sucks, but its necessary. One of the best things you can do for your body. Hell I just ran my Navy PFA, and it was terrible. But we do it for a reason.


----------



## Bevo

For most yeah but not for me and the people I run with, its an adiction, passion or religion to very many people.


----------



## Tiger

Handbanana said:


> Running sucks, but its necessary. One of the best things you can do for your body. Hell I just ran my Navy PFA, and it was terrible. But we do it for a reason.



Haha yea man, I just got to my new station and I've been helping run the PFA's for this cycle the last two weeks and its been interesting to say the least. Sometimes it seems like people will do ANYTHING to pass those besides exercise.


----------



## Fiction

I'm back running..... Again! Did a lot better then I was expecting, was gone for 30 mins and only walked about 5 minutes of it, although i was jogging pretty slow.. But I'll get back into the mojo of things soon, seems to improve faster each time around.


----------



## Bevo

I think lots of people write off running because they never get used to it. The first few weeks are hard but after that you gain strength and stamina and off you go.

Stick too it and it will get better!


----------



## Blind Theory

Been a long while since I posted in here. I was running 3-4 miles a day, Monday through Friday, back in October (and the 6-7 months prior to that) as well as doing Kettlebell workouts 3 times a week (strength training). The first week of November was a huge change in my life and I stopped all together. It is now 6 months-ish since I stopped and today I went and bought some new running shoes, gym shorts and protein for weight training. On Monday I am renewing my gym membership and starting all over again. I will definitely update this thread with my progress back into shape. Took me a long time to get up to where I was...it's a long road back I suppose Can't wait until I get back up to that though. As much as I hated running, I loved running. Nothing but me time and just an hour and a half to two hours of music and thinking about life.


----------



## Bevo

Welcome back!

Hope your issues were positive like a kid and your back to doing great!


----------



## Blind Theory

Bevo said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> Hope your issues were positive like a kid and your back to doing great!



My issues were not negative so no worries there. Basically I had a "career" change and then I got SUPER busy and lost motivation to go up until last week when some friends got me to go to the gym with them. 

Can't wait to get back into it though. I am planning on starting like I did when I...started My first goal will be to run to and back from Lowes (which is about .75 miles or so from my house). From there, it is to and back from Dairy Queen (about 1-1.25 miles from my house). Then, it is from my house to the high school, to dairy queen to my house which is somewhere between 3-4 miles round trip. Hopefully I will build back up to that in two months-ish. That is about what it took to get there the first time if I remember correctly.


----------



## Bevo

Completed my 25K trail race yesterday and was very happy I felt stong after being sick all week with no runs since last Saturday.

I started easy and took my time yet I was running at a very fast pace that felt effortless. When the hills came I maintained the same effort and ran as much as I could. This was at a ski resort so we had a total of 1,500 feet to climb per lap.
On my second lap I felt amazing and picked up the pace a bit even though I was tired but no problem.

I spent some time trying to sing some Judas Priest songs until I caught up to this cute blonde who smelled really good..not perfume just body kinda like Maple Syrup, we ran together to the end.

Overall I came in 45 out of 255 and 14th in my age group!


----------



## Tiger

Bevo said:


> That much is going to be hard to do although I will try.
> I started to count everything and got up to 110 today, I think with a few changes it will be possible with no meat.
> 
> The good news is I will find some new food to try, I may also get a jug of Vega vegan protein powder.
> 
> Let's see what happens!





I just finished this yesterday:

http://www.americanodysseyrelay.com/course.html

My chief's running team lost a member and I was a last minute fill in, so I did about 17 miles of the race. I didnt like having to sit in a van with mostly strangers for two days
and not sleeping, since the legs were divided up I think I ran around 11 Friday, again at 10 at night, then again at around 4 am. But its for a great cause so that makes up for it.


----------



## Bevo

Tiger, good thing I had the day off, I watched the presentation and it was really cool, he has some interesting ideas. I picked up some new things to try and some great knowledge into the inner workings of the sport and Fruitarian diet..

I checked out your race and it looks like it was a great event, to bad you got stuck with people you don't know..


----------



## Tiger

No worries, I am a fan of his, although I am an unabashed meat eater. But I think its interesting to see things that Id never think would work actually function in a top tier athlete, its good to learn.

I think that race taught me that I just dont like relay races, I think they are good opportunities to set PR's but I dont like it as much as ultra-distance events.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> I think that race taught me that I just dont like relay races, I think they are good opportunities to set PR's but I dont like it as much as ultra-distance events.


Talking about relays... I ran at Penn Relays last week. Quite the experience. What's not to like about them? They're fast, short, and fun!


----------



## Tiger

Infamous Impact said:


> Talking about relays... I ran at Penn Relays last week. Quite the experience. What's not to like about them? They're fast, short, and fun!



Cause I like my races long, slow, and miserable. 

Plus I'm a relatively slow runner, I dont know if Ill ever do a sub 20 minute 5k at this point.  Been trying for years.


----------



## Bevo

Did a seminar with Scott Jurek an Ultra Runner last year and he said anyone in the room could beat him in a Marathon, he only speeds up after 50 miles LOL!

I like to run fast but can't be bothered to race a 5k, too lazy..


----------



## troyguitar

Well I could do a 20 minute 5k back in the day and will get back to it by sometime this summer, but I still don't understand how it's even physically possible to run 20k+ at once. As far as I'm concerned people who do that are a different species from me. Even if I somehow forced myself to do it, I wouldn't be able to walk right for weeks


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> Cause I like my races long, slow, and miserable.
> 
> Plus I'm a relatively slow runner, I dont know if Ill ever do a sub 20 minute 5k at this point.  Been trying for years.





Bevo said:


> Did a seminar with Scott Jurek an Ultra Runner last year and he said anyone in the room could beat him in a Marathon, he only speeds up after 50 miles LOL!
> 
> I like to run fast but can't be bothered to race a 5k, too lazy..


It seems we're at opposite ends of the spectrum....


----------



## Bevo

Hmm I ran 10k in 50 min tonight at an easy pace including waiting for a couple lights.
I should give it a try sometime!


----------



## Tiger

I've been using a Suunto T6C for a few years now and I just ordered the new Suunto Ambit
and am beyond excited.

http://www.suunto.com/product-families/suunto-ambit/

Cant wait cant wait cant wait.


----------



## Bevo

My bud has one and its really nice, I have the Garmin 305.
It is much more accurate than the Garmin and looks much nicer, he did not get into all the features yet but I know its packed full of goodness!

If I had to get a new one it would be tough, I love the Ambit but the Garmin Connect I use all the time and lots of new runs are posted there to try.
So far its been amazing even thought its older.


----------



## Tiger

Just coughed up my entry fee.

eco-x sports - Grindstone 100

Let the misery begin


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> Just coughed up my entry fee.
> 
> eco-x sports - Grindstone 100
> 
> Let the misery begin


I tip my hat to you.


----------



## sytraxiplague

I've been running with my uncle lately. About 5ish miles at a time. Takes us about 50 minutes to an hour usually. Not too bad. A decent pace and good exercise. Congrats Tiger. I'm from VA and have never heard of that. Sounds rough! lol. Good luck to you!


----------



## Tiger

Hey thanks guys, Im looking forward to the event.


----------



## Bevo

23,000 feet ouch that is going to be a good one!
Thats a pretty serious course that will rival the courses on the Western side of the US.

Whats your training like leading up to it, are you doing big weeks with a few week taper?

The only issue with the 100's I have is getting the eating right, at 50 miles my stomach is just shot. If I can figure that out then I would be more prepared to run the 100.

Good on you!
If you ever get up to Canada I have a few runs I can take you on!!


----------



## Tiger

Im having to go with the less is more schedule. I plan on doing several 30-35 mile aggressive runs, a 50 miler, then tapering September and going in to it fully rested. I simply dont have the time to log 100 mile weeks, so I have to go with the faster paced 40-50 mile stuff. My big emphasis is hill training, I bought a treadmill so I could easily spend a lot of time going up or downhill.

I feel that a lot of it has to be mental...if its not then Im screwed!


----------



## Bevo

I did a 50 miler and at 15 miles I was done, my legs were killing me and I had ever ache and pain I could think up. 
For me I use the If I will damage my body I will stop, in this case it was just pain and I had to ignore it. At 40 my stomach was shot and it was super hard to eat but I kept eating and drinking, if I was going to puke then I would.

I got through it and it was one of the best races I ever had, it was all mental strength to not give up.
Crossing the line it felt like I won.

That video you posted said this and I really believe it..

First you run with your body.
Second you run with your mind.
Third you run with your heart.
Last you run with your spirit.


----------



## Tiger

That sounds about right. I read a quote a while ago that sums it up, 'if you're feeling good during an ultra, don't worry, you'll get over it.'


----------



## Bevo

Tiger said:


> That sounds about right. I read a quote a while ago that sums it up, 'if you're feeling good during an ultra, don't worry, you'll get over it.'


 
Yup!!

Legs are sore from yesterdays run, today is going to be sooo hard so I thought. Once I stumbled around for 10 min my sore legs cleared up and had another great 25K trail run today!

The only part that hurts now is my hand, knee and elbow from falling....twice! and my shoulder from smacking into a tree LOL!!
I never fall and fell twice yesterday, once eating and the other time enjoying the view...DOH!


----------



## Fiction

Motivation for running?

Scoring Digits, Coffee tomorrow and hopefully a run on wednesday with her.

I ran past her and she was pretty cute, was walking a dog and it tried to attack me but I just kept running and thought "Man, You should of stopped" So I ran around the block and caught her a bit further up, asked her whether she runs or just dresses up for running and walks (She had the whole running gear on) as a light joke, was a hit  Walked with her back to her house, got her number and asked if she wanted coffee tomorrow.

Thanks guys for getting me to go running  

Edit: Guess I'll give a small update on *running* ha, been 2-3 weeks since I've started back up again, my first run I ran 20-25 minutes and walked 5, I was like Wow this is a lot better then expecting, the next run was like 2 minute runs with 2 minutes walked, it all just disappeared. I was pretty bummed that I lost it all and the first run was just like a returning runners high or something 

But now I'm back up to the 20-25 minute running and 5 minute walking/slow jogging, I use to go for ~hour runs every second day but I'm going to try work up to 30 minutes every day instead. Just doing 30-40 every second day at the moment. Breathing better, I also sing while I run so that's improved a bit as well actually (Really puts a strain on breathing haha, but I stop when I really need to focus on breathing).


----------



## Blind Theory

I started going back to the gym a week ago. I am mainly focusing on muscle gain so I am not going to be trying to run 3 miles a day quite yet but I have began running 1 mile before I hit the weights. I was expecting it to be a LOT worse for me. I am able to do the mile with relative ease and I am confident I could get to 2 miles (not as easily though). So far my times are coming in at a low 11 minute mile so I am off of where I was speed wise by about 4 minutes I guess I just keep hacking away until I get where I was at...fun stuff.


----------



## Bevo

Great work guys!!

I told you its easy to get girls running!!


----------



## Cabinet

I always like to run a bit before my actual workout. But I go for a consistent pace and extend the time, tomorrow I'll bump up the speed a bit and go for the same time limit. Two days ago I managed to run about 3.5k in 25 minutes, looking to up the speed a bit and see how far I'll make it in that same 25 minute time frame.


----------



## aWoodenShip

Since this seems to be the infamous running thread, I have need of advice. I've deemed this month "May Madness" and the plan is to run every day this month without fail (with the exception of last Monday because of a final). My goal is to get rid of this little bit of fat that I've grown around my hips and lower stomach. My question is, is running the exercise I should be focusing on for these areas? And if so, which type of running? Should I be doing intermittent sprints or focusing on long distance jogs? 

I've already started with the intermittent sprints every day so far. Most of the trail I run at is uphill, but there are 3 200-300 foot level bits that I run as fast as I can and then continue walking. I do this for about five laps, or 6 miles.


----------



## Bevo

Don't do to much you will get hurt, the overdoo injurys are what hurt most new runners.

The running will help as your burning 5-800 calories but you also have to watch what you eat and do some strength training. Get in extra lean protien and cut out all the sugar stuff.
Push ups, squats, core work everyday at a fast paced 20 min will really fire you up.

Pick 5 full body exercises and do one min, then move right to the next no break, do those 5 4 times and your done in more ways than one!
Change what you do everyday so you don't overuse those muscles too.

Good luck!


----------



## Bevo

25K trail race this saturday!
This one is close to home and lots of friends will be racing the 25 and 50M distances.

Can't wait!!!


----------



## troyguitar

I still can't get over the idea of being able to run that far at once. How many years did it take you to build up to that level?


----------



## Tiger

Bevo said:


> 25K trail race this saturday!
> This one is close to home and lots of friends will be racing the 25 and 50M distances.
> 
> Can't wait!!!



Post results.

About to go do 10-20 miles at Patapsco if my leg permits.


----------



## Bevo

Troy, not long I have only been trail running for a few years but have always been active.

Most running plans call for an extra 10% a week so in 10 weeks your running pretty far if you started by running 20 min.
Its super important to run consistantly, every run builds on the last one.

I normly run farther but am looking to stick to this distance this year, next year i will go longer. Its all about staying healthy and not overdoing it.

You got it Tiger, I will post my results!
Weather is going to be warm and dry so looking at some fun times!

Hope your leg is feeling better!
Mine are killing me, I have not run as much as normal so they are looking for some action!!


----------



## Tiger

Dude I think I may be injured. Ive been trying to get an MRI for weeks and its such a pain in the military, I had to see a doc who forced an xray, so I had to go back to doc after xray, who has now refered me to orthopedics, so I can go see them and schedule one (if they let me) just so I can wait WEEKS to have one done. Free? Yea, but fuck its a pain to get anything done.

Its this bizarre tightness on the outside of my left knee that is definitely connected with my upper calf. It feels utterly bizarre when it occurs and seems to be triggered by downhill movement or anything faster than about 8 minute mile. Its a show stopping sensation, it feels like my meniscus just got injected with lead and its not one you just run through. I've also been experiencing some bizarre bruising in the upper left part of the calf after runs or if I try to foam roll the area. Yet I still have full strength in all heavy lifts and feel the pain in no way unless I run or go down stairs fast.

So Im not sure if I have a bone bruise, a meniscus issue, a critical imbalance... I even exhibit symptoms of compartment syndrome. One day those wacky doctors will tell me.

It just would break from tradition if I wasnt battling a mystery issue in the months leading up to an ultra race.


----------



## Bevo

That sucks!
I saw some of the 50 milers today having one hell of a time, there was some misery and injured people out there!!

Hope it can get resolved well before your race!


----------



## Bevo

My race review short and sweet!

Started at a comfy speed that I knew I could hold for hours, this speed also put me behind 3 seriously cute girls with one in a skirt!
After 10K I think they felt me staring so I had to run by LOL!!

15K turn around I was moving good on track for a good time, they also changed it to a 30K not 25.

At 20 the wheels came off and my stomach got pissed off at me, the last 10 was really hard I mean really really hard but I got it done in 3:30.. not great considering I was on track for 3:15.


----------



## Blind Theory

I just needed to dust off the cobwebs a little bit. My time isn't back to where it used to be (high 6 to low 7 minute) but it is better than when I started the gym again. I have gone from low 11 minute mile to a 9 and a half ish minute mile so I am headed in the right direction.


----------



## Bevo

Thats fast but how long can you hold it for?

You keep that up for a good long distance then you are a machine!!


----------



## Blind Theory

Right now I probably couldn't hold that pace very much longer but I am still working back to where I was. When I was super into running I could hold a 9 minute pace all day if I wanted to. If I went for speed I would do a 6:50-7:10 mile so I have a lot of work to do still.


----------



## Bevo

The winner of my race yesterday had a average of 7 min mile over 30K including massive hill and stopping for water, he passed me on the way back when I was at 10K. He must of been doing a steady 6 to maintain that 7!

I have to learn to run faster!!!


----------



## Bevo

It was super hot for our run today and we had a decent sized group.
A couple girls were in miniskirts and panties and damn it was hard to run behind them especially in the hills LOL!!

I would love to get some pictures but that may be crossing a line!


----------



## MFB

If you guys had some sort of group page on FB or something you could claim it was for that, hell you could even say it's just to have records of running with certain people

Nothing says "I want to remember this" like hot chicks running in miniskirts


----------



## Infamous Impact

My Nike Free's finally died on me today after putting a hole through the front of one after sprinting in them like a mofo. So now I need a new pair of shoes. Problem is, I have no clue what minimalist shoes are good other than Vibrams and Frees, except I don't want another pair of either, I want a pair of shoes that meet a lot of criteria. So, can anyone help me out?
I need shoes that are minimalist, look good (like the Frees or Minimus), can be used in cross country, but cushioned enough to be able to sprint on a track with, and has a minimal heel. Any good shoes?


----------



## Bevo

I just picked up the New Balance MT110 trail shoe that lots of people road run in.
Heel toe is 4mm, your frees were 7-10 heel toe.
The new Minimus frm NB is pretty cool too on trail or road.

Inova8 has some nice stuff to, lots of good stuff out there.
Lots of stuff here..

ZombieRunner Store - Minimalist Running Shoes


----------



## MFB

Jesus Christ, for "minimalist" shoes they sure do cost a shit ton of money. What the fuck is their overhead costs?


----------



## Bevo

I don't think so..

When I raced motorcycles it was $10-12K a year, Bicycles was around $4K, Hockey $3K and running is about $1,200 including my races, gear and shoes every 2-3 months.

Cheap hobby to me and I did not even get into the guitar stuff LOL!!


----------



## Tiger

I only run in vibrams, Ive got four pair for different scenarios. However, the Merrel minimalist line is very popular with the dudes Im working with, and they have a vibram sole. Ive tried on some and they feel great.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> I just picked up the New Balance MT110 trail shoe that lots of people road run in.
> Heel toe is 4mm, your frees were 7-10 heel toe.
> The new Minimus frm NB is pretty cool too on trail or road.
> 
> Inova8 has some nice stuff to, lots of good stuff out there.
> Lots of stuff here..
> 
> ZombieRunner Store - Minimalist Running Shoes


I'm really liking the Minimus line as of right now, I think I'll get those.




MFB said:


> Jesus Christ, for "minimalist" shoes they sure do cost a shit ton of money. What the fuck is their overhead costs?


The name of it shoots up the prices like crazy. But the price is justified for me, I hate running in shoes with tons of cushioning.


----------



## Bevo

I tried the 5 fingers but they are not for me.

For me I have 4 pairs of shoes and use them as follows.
Road, Nike Free V3
Fast smooth trail, NB MT110
Long Long smooth trail, Montrail Rogue Racers
Long rough or rocky trails, Montrail Masochists.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> I tried the 5 fingers but they are not for me.


Now that I've had mine for a couple of months I can say the toes are more of a gimmick me than anything. I can't sprint in them without my toes slamming into the front, and it hurts like a bitch. They also smell terrible only a couple of days after cleanings and require a ton more maintenance than my other shoes.


----------



## Tiger

^ It just sounds like you dont have a fitted pair. Also, socks.

With vibrams there is a lot of variance between the styles.

My KSO's are my most comfortable pair in terms of walking around, and I ran my last 50 miler in them because it was mostly trail. My Spyridons are my newest pair and they let me run on
jagged painful trails without any discomfort, they are what Ill be using in the 100 mile grindstone race. My Bikila LS are probably their best shoe to date, it is my road shoe and Ive done
a few marathon and 30-35 mile distances in them, to me they are their best shoe if youre not on trail.


----------



## Bevo

They do sound to big, mine were super tight when I got them and formed to my feet like a second skin. They did not move and I wore paper thin Injen socks with separate toe thingys so it fit nice.

I still use them and they don't stink anymore than my other shoes..


----------



## Bevo

At a local 100 miler a guy won yesterday in 15:30 hours!
Damn that guy is fast!!

In comparison two guys I run with that are not slow are still at it at the 25 hour mark.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Tiger said:


> ^ It just sounds like you dont have a fitted pair. Also, socks.
> 
> With vibrams there is a lot of variance between the styles.
> 
> My KSO's are my most comfortable pair in terms of walking around, and I ran my last 50 miler in them because it was mostly trail. My Spyridons are my newest pair and they let me run on
> jagged painful trails without any discomfort, they are what Ill be using in the 100 mile grindstone race. My Bikila LS are probably their best shoe to date, it is my road shoe and Ive done
> a few marathon and 30-35 mile distances in them, to me they are their best shoe if youre not on trail.





Bevo said:


> They do sound to big, mine were super tight when I got them and formed to my feet like a second skin. They did not move and I wore paper thin Injen socks with separate toe thingys so it fit nice.
> 
> I still use them and they don't stink anymore than my other shoes..


They probably don't fit anymore. My feet shrank from the arches becoming higher from barefoot running. Either way, Vibrams are not for me anymore.


----------



## MFB

I'd say this sums up my feelings on Vibrams pretty well (along with many others feelings I'm sure)


----------



## Bevo

Suck!!

Working in Calgary with the day off to run in the mountains, super high winds and rain/snow storms where we were going...everything is canceled!!

I thought about going alone but I saw way to many bears in the area signs and they recommend groups of four minimum.
Time to be smart and relax at the hotel..


----------



## Infamous Impact

I'm still new to running gear outside of shoes. Can someone recommend me a good pair of shorts and a running watch for cross country?


----------



## Tyler

Id love to run cross country and such, but after mile 3 I get sick to my stomach every time, and Im in no way unhealthy


----------



## Bevo

Infamous check out this watch, gps and heart rate
http://www.runningfree.com/products...nics-367/Soleus-GPS-10-Watch-p32028/?pstart=1

Nellie, slow down to a pace you can talk at and take a walk break if you have to. Keep the easy pace until you can run for 30 min straight then pick up the pace a bit.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Infamous check out this watch, gps and heart rate
> Soleus GPS 1.0 Watch - Running Free Canada
> 
> Nellie, slow down to a pace you can talk at and take a walk break if you have to. Keep the easy pace until you can run for 30 min straight then pick up the pace a bit.


Is there anything decent for $20? I need it really quickly, and money's not something I need to worry about for XC. I only need a running watch because it's required by my coach.


----------



## Bevo

All you need is a cheap Timex digital with a timer/stop watch.


----------



## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> All you need is a cheap Timex digital with a timer/stop watch.


Thanks!


----------



## troyguitar

Infamous Impact said:


> Is there anything decent for $20? I need it really quickly, and money's not something I need to worry about for XC. I only need a running watch because it's required by my coach.









I suspect it will get you all of the ladies too.


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> I suspect it will get you all of the ladies too.


If that was functional I'd actually really want that.


----------



## Bevo

Ran a 30K race in a pair of what I thought were neutral shoes with lots of padding and found out after they were support type shoes.
I don't know if it related but I have shin splints now and an issue with my quad...sucks!

No running for a bit for me..

I think I might hit the gym and try to put some muscle on this body, my 90lb girlfriend is stronger than me at times LOL!!


----------



## Tiger

The gym certainly helps with retaining your quads man, thats why I squat so often.

Dude maybe you can help me out, Im trying to figure out what is causing my right calf to be so strained. I posted this over at runners world.



So far the best idea is that Im 'cocking' my foot sometimes but not always, but then I wonder why my left leg has no symptom at all.


----------



## Bevo

I see that but its slight, your toes come up to high then have to go a long way to get to your forefoot.

When I started running barefoot style the guys mentioned to lift your leg straight up but with your knees almost letting you toes down.
The idea was to keep you calfs moving as little as possible.

Going to check out a gym today, I have stuff at home but not near enough and the gym I like has a pool which I really want for cross training!


----------



## Infamous Impact

Point your toes down, and think "lift" with your thighs instead of "push" with your calves.


----------



## troyguitar

So now that I've determined I'm actually capable of some decent distances and times, it's time to get a little more serious about this stuff.

Do you guys who do distance running really only do one long run per week, with 2 days of no running at all, and 4 days of running less than half of your long distance, like most plans I've seen online?

Before this I was running a flat 4 miles a day, every day at the same pace. Now yesterday I ran 10 miles. The online plans seem to indicate that I should do nothing today, then stick to 4 or less until going for 11 next Tuesday. I swore there were people who run 15+ miles every day, is that not true?


----------



## Bevo

Some of the big mile guys I run with run surprisingly light during the week and long saturday and sunday.

After a long run if your pretty sore a short run of 25% or less of your long run will make you feel much better.

My week is typically like this, miles would vary depending on my goal or progression.

Monday Off
Tuesday 10K easy pace
Wednesday fast 15K trail run with hills, maximum tempo run with warm up and cool down.
Thursday 15-20 easy pace.
Friday Off
Saturday race or fast 25-50K depending what the group is doing.
Sunday 25% of Sat easy run.

Fast pace is 7:30-8 min mile, easy is 9:30 min mile.
The fast race pace can sometimes get into low 7's for the entire run.

Hope that helps!
For me I found the two rest days and slow runs helped me recover faster and be stronger for the faster stuff.


----------



## troyguitar

Interesting, I'm not actually varying my pace at all at this point. The 10 miles and 4 miles have all been at very easy pace (10 minutes per mile).

I guess I'll just keep getting on the treadmill every day for now until I start feeling bad


----------



## Infamous Impact

While we're posting our workouts, here's my running one, it's more track and field oriented, but I find it to work very well, and easily adjustable. Currently I'm doing a lot more long runs for cross country, but it only helps my 400 meter times.
Monday: Hard Conditioning Days, usually 4x400m repeats at a sub-55 pace or Tabata intervals (20 seconds sprinting, 10 seconds walking for 8 cycles, whole workout is 4 mins).
Tuesday: Form Day, usually work on the blocks and for field events. Easy run of 4-6 miles at a 7 minute pace.
Wednesday: 40 Minute run followed by hill repeats.
Thursday: Easy run, same as Tuesday.
Friday: 20 Minute tempo run.
Saturday: Long run
Sunday: Rest
Using this I have solid all running. Right now my schedule's focusing on longer runs, usually I have 200m repeats and short sprints. Most of your weekly mileage should come from long runs.


----------



## Bevo

Nice week!

I can't stress how important it is to vary your pace, running one speed on the road is not only boring but will lead to repetitive injuries.
Try to mix it up with hills or faster pace for 30 seconds or better yet find some trails in the woods.

Treadmill is ok but not the same as the real deal out there, your not getting the full experience and when you go outside you will find it much harder..

Either way keep at it and take a couple days off a week..


----------



## Guitarmiester

I've totally strayed from running over the past few months since I've gotten very into mountain biking, but managed to vary it up a bit. Started running again last month. I'll run a few miles near my place and then on the weekends I've been running in the mountains instead of biking them. 

Feels good to get back into running, except that first week was a killer. I'll go biking through the mountains for 4-5 hours twice a week, yet that first time back into running had my legs feeling like bricks for 3-4 days.


----------



## Tiger

Going to bitch here for a second...I'm a long time Suunto user and lover, hell bought their new $500 ambit as soon as it came out. 

Because they break for no good reason, I sent in my 3rd dead heart rate monitor needing it repaired (they always send me a brand new one)

So while Im waiting, I run another 5 hour run that I would have LOVED to have HR data on, hell I depend on it. They send it back...STILL BROKEN. Like they didnt fix the thing. So I rush it back to them, now all week Ive been waiting on a reply saying its shipped back to me, this is after I called and let them know what was up and to please rush it since they screwed up.

So it wont be back in time for Saturday, a 7 hour night run. Whats worse is Im trying to do it aerobically, and without my HR to tell me Im in the 140's range, its hard to do. Pissed off.


Besides whining, I am entering this race for my tune up before the 100 miler. 

http://www.pretzelcitysports.com/laborpain.html

I think Ill do 55 miles and call it a day, probably wont do the full 12 hours but I want it to be a nice time on feet run that I recover 100% from by October.


----------



## Bevo

That's to bad, I did not know they had those problems.

You should pick up another hr only watch for when this one is in the shop. Sucks but $75 bucks will save your training.

That run looks like fun and great training!


----------



## troyguitar

That race is actually near me but there's no fucking way I'd spend my holiday weekend feeling like death.

Today I got an iphone armband, a Polar H7 heart rate widget, and was supposed to get the silly Withings wifi scale but the idiot "Jimmy James" at HRM USA packed the Withings blood pressure cuff in my box instead 

I spent the evening trying to get the rest of the crap to sync up and measure everything, displaying on iSmoothRun on the phone and exporting to RunKeeper on the interwebs. Took me so long that I only ended up running 1 mile so perhaps I'll start for real tomorrow.


----------



## troyguitar

Had my first real outdoor run yesterday getting most of the gadgets working, then did a bigger one today. I also bought a shirt and shorts in the fancy wicking/stretching material in addition to a bluetooth stereo headset - these things both made a big difference in my overall comfort level. Went 8 miles at 9:30 pace and 160 bpm today which is quite an improvement for me.

...now I need to buy a bunch more of these shirts and shorts though at $20+ each 

Here's a question for you guys running long distances: How do you carry your food/drinks? Running 1-2 hours now is starting to push it without at least a water break so I need to find a good solution.


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> Here's a question for you guys running long distances: How do you carry your food/drinks? Running 1-2 hours now is starting to push it without at least a water break so I need to find a good solution.


I usually start hydrating and eating for a long run the night before. If possible, you can stash water and food along your route before your run. I don't like carrying anything when I run, so that's all I have. I've only stashed water on the route when it was a 12 mile run in triple digit weather.


----------



## Bevo

Nice!

The rule is 90 min you don't need food and if your going over 90 start eating before one hour. Also, its super important to eat right after your run like within 15 min.
Most say an hour but I find for recovery 15 lets me run the next day no problem, less so with an hour.

For 40 min or less I take nothing.
40-90 and not super hot I take a handheld bottle in 600ml size.
60+ on hot days I take my Ultra inspire back pack (Camelback) with 2 liters of water. It also has pockets for food and salt pills. I just take Nutrigrain bars and eat a half every 20 min for just over 300 calories an hour.

If its hot or humid and your sweating lots you really really need salts even if its 40 min, once you stop sweating salt (you will taste it if your seating enough) your going to cramp and have all kinds of problems....Trust me!!

If its hot I will take one before I start then one every hour, I may even take one after I stop depending on the time since the last one.

If there is one piece of advice to give its to monitor your body for changes, look for sweating to stop, keep your temperature in check, look for slight cramps, keep a very close eye on 300 calories per hour, watch your salts.

If you do all of that your runs will be consistent and you will be able to correct something BEFORE it becomes a show stopper.
In races I kinda get excited and forget, I have had to walk out of some trails dehydrated and nauseous like you can't believe. That was because I was racing and not monitoring my body...

Tiger will put his comments in but it will be his spin on the same advice!
Keep at it and have fun!!

Sorry for the long post but it will help.


----------



## Tiger

I use a nathan sport pack with a two compartment hydration bladder, so I can dial in more water or more carbohydrate fluid depending on the situation.

My last two weekends I ran on a loop for 5 and 6 hours with an 'aid station' that I came back to. I carry a 24 ounce nathan bottle and just put in what I need at the aid station.

EDIT: Things arent an exact science though, I fucked up and got heat exhaustion yesterday, and now I am definitely feeling like a big pile of ass today, Im basically useless.


----------



## Bevo

That happened to me this summer as well but I fought it off by laying in a river for 10 min a few times on the way back.
If that water was not there I would of easily been stroked.

We met a guy who was super sick throwing up all over and bright red and not sweating, he was alone walking like a drunk. we took one look and put his legs in the river and gave him his water and wet his upper body.
After 20 min you could see his colour return and he felt 100% better, it was pretty funny. He seen he was sitting in the water and goes what the hell, then sees us and is who are you..this was after 30 min of cooling him down lol!!


----------



## troyguitar

I need to get one of those backpack things, just ran 12 miles (very slowly as I'm fighting a cold  - 2h14m) today with no food or water until I got back home at the end and was starting to feel it pretty strongly the last few miles.


----------



## Bevo

Just take a bottle with you, the handheld with a strap is best because you don't need to hold it. They also come with a small pocket to put some food and stuff in it.

Take a couple bucks with you and stop at a store to buy water of find a fountain on the way.


----------



## Tiger

I love my Nathan handheld and I love my nathan running pack, its going to have flexibility.


----------



## troyguitar

Do you actually run with a ~2 lb weight in one hand for an hour plus? Seems like that would start to get heavy after awhile.


----------



## Tiger

Yes. It doesnt.


----------



## Bevo

Mine is 600ml or just over a disposable small water bottle, with the strap you don't notice not to mention your drinking it so it gets lighter...

A fanny pack works too around your waist but it constantly feels like I have to take a leak with the pressure on the bladder.

Some like the running belt with the small bottles, I don't..

Go to a running shop and see what they have..


----------



## troyguitar

Next question:

If my goal is to improve both distance and speed, what's the best way to do that?

i.e. I can run 10+ miles at this point but at a very slow pace and I can also run a 6:00 mile but only for 1 mile. The goal is to be able to run 10+ miles all at the fast pace. Is it more effective to keep running 10 miles and slowly increase the speed or start out at the desired speed and slowly increase the distance? I'm assuming that doing both on alternate days is the answer, but it is difficult to know.

Most guides I have read online focus only on distance and more or less ignore speed. If I keep up running, I'll have to work a lot on speed because I'm a competitive person and want to win races - not just finish them. It's a disease


----------



## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> Next question:
> 
> If my goal is to improve both distance and speed, what's the best way to do that?
> 
> i.e. I can run 10+ miles at this point but at a very slow pace and I can also run a 6:00 mile but only for 1 mile. The goal is to be able to run 10+ miles all at the fast pace. Is it more effective to keep running 10 miles and slowly increase the speed or start out at the desired speed and slowly increase the distance? I'm assuming that doing both on alternate days is the answer, but it is difficult to know.
> 
> Most guides I have read online focus only on distance and more or less ignore speed. If I keep up running, I'll have to work a lot on speed because I'm a competitive person and want to win races - not just finish them. It's a disease


Add in speedwork days, where you do tempo runs, track workouts, hills, etc.


----------



## Bevo

If you have your base miles in and it sounds like you do the next stage is tempo as said above and interval training.
Another thing is consistency which is huge, the more time you miss the worse it is.

LSD, long slow distance, your base run, you should not be running hard and when your done you should feel refreshed not tired.
Tempo is a shorter run which is done at 80 percent doing 50 percent of your long run.

To speed myself up I did this..but it does not mean you need to..

Monday off.
Tuesday LSD 
Wednesday tempo
Thursday LSD
Friday off
Saturday long faster trail run
Sun short slow recovery run.

I found my speed picking up each week and on race day I could run flat out for a few hours no problem.


----------



## troyguitar

I just tried doing a "recovery run" today and had to go so slow it was walking pace - 14 minutes per mile to keep heart rate under 150 bpm. 

I don't understand what an "easy" LSD run would be I guess... no level of sloth-ness is slow enough for me to be refreshed by running, any pace is tiring.


----------



## Bevo

Just take the day off and do something else then like sleep or play guitar..

Take the time to get your body stronger, be consistent and it will start to pay off.

I felt the same way then on one run with a group I looked at my watch and was amazed that we were running 8 min miles for two hours.

I still suggest finding a group to run with, it pays off more than you think!


----------



## Infamous Impact

I've noticed two things as a sprinter doing XC:

1. After a meet the rest of the team complains about sore feet because they all wear padded shoes for the week and then run their fastest 3 miles in spikes with no cushioning. And they call me crazy for wearing minimalist shoes. 

2. I'm a lot more comfortable running at a fast pace, have a strong finishing kick, and do well in meets where you have to go all out, but I die after a mile during a practice where everything drags on, at least mentally. The endurance aspect is almost purely mental. My legs don't give out before I do. Running longer distances help me cope with it.

Guess it pays to be as well rounded as possible.


----------



## troyguitar

I have to wonder if you guys just never had to start from being old-ish and out of shape. 

I'm running further and faster than I was and it has been getting easier, I just have yet to experience an "easy" or "refreshing" run no matter how slow I go, no matter how short the distance, and no matter how many days off before hand. Running is hard and tiring. Maybe next year I'll be able to relate to you guys...


----------



## Bevo

46 in a month or so....punk....... LOL!!!

Ever driven a car with a small engine that keeps struggling to keep up?
Ever drive a car with a big engine and its so effortless you have to constantly slow down cause it just takes off on you?

Lungs and heart are the engine, get those in good shape and you will easily pick up your pace.

Talk about old, there is this lady who has to be early 50s and looks it, soft saggy and probably an ex smoker.
She kicked my ass twice this year in races mind you I had stomach issues and had to walk for a bit.
We talked as we walked up a hill and she just started running 6 months before, 1 year before she was in a crash that broke her legs, pelvis and a few other things.

We were running 50K and this was at 45K, I ran off and crossed the line 5 min before her, her entire family was there to meet her including me.

If she can do it so can you!!

I also run with a 60 year old couple who are on the third 100 miler this year...
I also hate to run with this 23 year old guy called mr excuse...i put the ear buds in with him around, player off of course LOL!!


----------



## troyguitar

Hey I never said that I can't do it, just that it has never been easy or refreshing. That is the part that I cannot relate to. I fully expect to run a BQ time next year, I just expect to feel like crap at the end much like I do at the end of every other run


----------



## Bevo

Water and food will really keep you fresh through a run, bring a bottle with you for anything over 30 min.
Once you hit an hour you will need 300 calories an hour.

Did you get a heart rate monitor yet?


----------



## troyguitar

Yeah I have been rocking the heart rate monitor this month, this is the longest run so far:

Running Activity 13.19 mi | RunKeeper

It seems like heart rates in the 160's are where I can comfortably run for long periods of time, slowing down enough to stay in the 150's or lower usually means walking pace and 170+ I start to get tired much more quickly.


----------



## Tiger

Had my mind somewhat blown today by this product:

VESPA Power Products, LLC - An all-natural amino acid complex that optimizes performance & recovery

Ive seen it in trail magazines for years and finally bought two packs of it just to try it cause hey why not.

It works. I was really expecting nothing but I felt really good on a long run today with a much lower heart rate and my aerobic groove was on. Burned less calories from sugar for the same distance, yes please. It's too expensive to use every run but on my long runs over 30 miles and definitely on the 100 miler Ill use it. Im pretty intune with my body and I felt way better than someone who is run down with a two week old in the house who got up at 4am should have felt. Cool stuff.

And who doesnt want to eat wasp goo?


----------



## MFB

troyguitar said:


> I have to wonder if you guys just never had to start from being old-ish and out of shape.
> 
> I'm running further and faster than I was and it has been getting easier, I just have yet to experience an "easy" or "refreshing" run no matter how slow I go, no matter how short the distance, and no matter how many days off before hand. Running is hard and tiring. Maybe next year I'll be able to relate to you guys...



Dude, don't try and pull this old/out-of-shape shit

I was 21 when I started LSD running because of THIS thread, and I went from running 13 minute mile down to a just over 10 minute, or if I busted my fucking hump and never slowed down until the last quarter or so, I was pulling a 9 minute mile. At that time, I was 271 pounds, yet I was running 9 minute miles if I pushed myself so it's entirely doable to go from out-of-shape and horrid physique to doing good times; AND afterwards I felt good FROM running.


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## troyguitar

Then my body is just fucked 

I can jog a 15 minute mile or sprint a 5:45 mile or run 5 miles in 40 minutes or 10 miles in 100 minutes or any other combination. Afterward I feel tired and sometimes sore. I have never, not once, felt good after running.


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## MFB

Checked out the gym at my new college and they have a near identical elliptical to the one I used to work out on.

I am excite.


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## Guitarmiester

Have any of you guys ever had an issue where the back of your throat feels itchy/scratchy and it's almost impossible to exhale without coughing? I have looked it up online to come across what I figured; 1. slight case of asthma. I had asthma when I was a kid or 2. Excessive breathing through your mouth from going harder than usual. 

I always have water on me and no matter how much I drink it takes a while to get rid of that itchy/scratchy throat. Has anyone experienced this or know a remedy?


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## troyguitar

I have always got it when I run too hard, as a kid it was suspected to be an extremely mild case of asthma. I still suspect that is what it is, but it has little impact on me other than making it take more effort for me to reach a given fitness level than people without it. 

It has definitely gotten harder and harder for me to get to that point as I've built up my system over the course of the year. In fact I have not felt it in a month or so.


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## Tiger

This is what I did for an hour today...up and down this hill at Patapsco, .15 miles up that climbs 121 feet then back down again. It sucked because rains have made it mostly hard rock that turned it into some technical work and when I hit the off rock, despite the plating in my vibrams, I still felt it. Im thinking I may have to switch in to a pair of montrail's for my upcoming race, because DNF'ing from my foot getting shredded would be lame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioJmx2YTtrY&feature=plcp


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## Necris

My leg finally healed so I can get back to running again.


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## Bevo

How high are you in elevation?
It can dehydrate you faster and you will need to keep hydrated before your run.


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## Guitarmiester

troyguitar said:


> I have always got it when I run too hard, as a kid it was suspected to be an extremely mild case of asthma. I still suspect that is what it is, but it has little impact on me other than making it take more effort for me to reach a given fitness level than people without it.
> 
> It has definitely gotten harder and harder for me to get to that point as I've built up my system over the course of the year. In fact I have not felt it in a month or so.



Sounds like the same thing. I really never had this issue until this past month. A big factor is probably that I haven't been running and biking as much as I normally would, yet have been trying to go harder to make up for slacking. 

My breathing is fine but when that kicks in, it's like I can't not cough with every exhale. The first time it happened last month I thought I swallowed a bug or managed to inhale some dirt as the wind kicked up. Since I've been running and mountain biking more regularly again, I've noticed it at about the same point in one of my trails. Odd. 



Bevo said:


> How high are you in elevation?
> It can dehydrate you faster and you will need to keep hydrated before your run.



For the spot I've been going every week, there's a mile long incline that peaks at about 5500 ft. I seem to get the scratchy/itchy throat a little more than 1/2 way up the incline. 

For that spot, the first mile is the only major climb, the rest is a bunch of fairly moderate trails along the side of the hills and mountain-y area. I'd typically bike, at least, 25-30 miles worth and never had that issue until recently. 

I quickly looked it up again while at work today and saw something about Lance Armstrong encountering this, at times. His trick was gargling with Listerine. Seems like a strange remedy.


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## Bevo

Tiger said:


> This is what I did for an hour today...up and down this hill at Patapsco, .15 miles up that climbs 121 feet then back down again. It sucked because rains have made it mostly hard rock that turned it into some technical work and when I hit the off rock, despite the plating in my vibrams, I still felt it. Im thinking I may have to switch in to a pair of montrail's for my upcoming race, because DNF'ing from my foot getting shredded would be lame.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks steeper than it appears in the vid, those shoes and rocks must be killer...ouch!
> 
> Check out the New Balance MT110 the new model, it has a thin beefy sole and is pretty hard.
> The new Minimus has a few models that are "0" drop with just a bit more padding than the 5 fingers.
> There is also a new Rouge Racer flat that may work.
> 
> I have both of the NB shoes and just tossed out the Montrails after 800K.


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## Bevo

If any of you guys have not seen we are doing a XC challenge in this forum so post up your daily runs.

The goal is 2500M and all who post will get lots of "Thanks" for your profile..
I made that up but why not.


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## troyguitar

So there's a local mile race here tomorrow evening and I'm going to run it for fun. I've no chance of winning (last winner was 4:27 ) but am curious to see what kind of time I can put down in a competitive environment all the same. 

Do you think that running 3-5 miles at a slow pace tonight will have any impact on my mile time tomorrow? I don't care all that much but it has been 10 years since I ran a timed mile so it would be nice to establish a new baseline.


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## Bevo

Nope and warm up so your sweating on the start line!


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## Alex6534

I would like to get into running, the only problem is I get bored shitless  Reckon I might give it a go though, even if it's sprinting and not long distance.


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## Infamous Impact

Alex6534 said:


> I would like to get into running, the only problem is I get bored shitless  Reckon I might give it a go though, even if it's sprinting and not long distance.


Sprinting is the best. If you need any advice lemme know.


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## troyguitar

Decided to be lazy and not run tonight, we'll see how the mile goes.

I'd love to see 5:30 but 6:00 is much more likely. It is in the evening, in a straight line, and a total elevation drop of like 40-50 feet though so I should be able to post as fast a time as my body will allow unless other people get in the way.

I've never actually run a race like this before, do you pass on the left like normal or is it a free for all?


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## Bevo

Elbows up no talking....cause you can't or you better not unless your slacking!

Depending on the method you may go in waves or singles or as a group, most likely you will have a chip timer on your shoe.
Start in the group matching the speed your wanting to hit..

Most important have fun and give it 120%!


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## troyguitar

Managed to end up getting a whopping 3-4 hours of sleep last night and feel like crap, good thing I wasn't planning on winning the race anyway 

Is it weird that I'm actually more nervous about this than most car and kart races where I actually might win something?


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## troyguitar

Lololol they started the 5 minute race 3 minutes early while I was two blocks away with no warning. Fucking small town america for you...


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## Bevo

That sucks!

Guess you never got to run in it then, find a 5K to race now..


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## vanhendrix

Guess I'm late to the party here so I'm not going to go through this whole massive thread but here's what I'm into these days:

As of June I got sick and tired of basically living in a knee brace if I was going to manage my daily 5K so I decided to look into alternatives. I've been doing barefoot running ever since, and although their were some growing pains I'm back up and past my old daily mileage barefoot, on mostly pavement. I tried my knee brace on once last month after a marathon driving sesh and it won't even fit over my calf anymore.

Any of you guys tried it? I was about as far-gone as a heel-striker can be and I managed to totally switch it up.


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## Tiger

I only run in vibrams or barefoot on treadmill, yea. Serious injuries are a thing of the past.


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## Bevo

I just picked these up, read review here New Balance Minimus Zero Running Shoes Review | Running Shoes Guru 

They are like running in paper thin socks as you feel everything.
I will use these on the road and go to a better cushioned shoe for trails, I find the rocks kill my feet and runs.
For trails I just threw out my last pair and am searching for some new stuff, I like the La Sportiva Vertical K.

In the padded shoes I run barefoot style.


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## vanhendrix

Tiger said:


> I only run in vibrams or barefoot on treadmill, yea. Serious injuries are a thing of the past.



What kind of vibrams do you use? I initially got the treksports for trail running but found that I was landing too hard due to the 'rock blocking' stuff. After a bout of sore ankles I switched to the KSOs, which are fantastic. I keep sneaking up on things now because I'm so quiet when I run


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## Bevo

Tiger is pretty quiet too.....







See what I did there^


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## Tiger

vanhendrix said:


> What kind of vibrams do you use? I initially got the treksports for trail running but found that I was landing too hard due to the 'rock blocking' stuff. After a bout of sore ankles I switched to the KSOs, which are fantastic. I keep sneaking up on things now because I'm so quiet when I run



The bikila ls for road and spyridon ls for trail stuff. Havent had any hard landing issues with them.


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## vanhendrix

Tiger said:


> The bikila ls for road and spyridon ls for trail stuff. Havent had any hard landing issues with them.



It was pouring rain so I decided to do a trail run in my treksports today for the added grip. While that did work, I still end up with the same fatigue of landing harder - even though I went without my tunes and was specifically listening for a soft landing. Guess I have to stick to the KSOs for man-made gravel trails and au-naturale for everything else.

The treksports will probably just replace my trusty hiking boots that weigh a gajilion pounds and they probably won't end up getting much more running mileage


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## Infamous Impact

I had my first run in my Vibrams in months yesterday, and I sprained my ankle. The same one I screwed up months ago. And regionals is tomorrow.

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK.


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## troyguitar

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


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## Bevo

Man that suck, how did you hurt your ankle?

I found trail running with the high padded shoes always tweaked my ankle, now being so close to the ground its does not happen often unless I slip off a rock.

Rest up and get back out there!!


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Man that suck, how did you hurt your ankle?
> 
> I found trail running with the high padded shoes always tweaked my ankle, now being so close to the ground its does not happen often unless I slip off a rock.
> 
> Rest up and get back out there!!


I tripped on the sidewalk running back home. I'm so unlucky. Now my legs will atrophy into poles and my conditioning will have me dying on 1 mile runs.


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## Tiger

Today stung pretty bad. If I had looked at my watch and seen time/distance, I could have easily crushed an 18 minute 5k...with the first warm up mile at 8:12.

I took a week off from running and only squatted once, and went out for a fun run today and everything was effortless. Got back to my house at 2.53 miles and had I looked at my watch I could have easily kicked a half mile to get a PR with two fast splits...missed opportunity hurts.

102 miler on Friday...


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## synrgy

vanhendrix said:


> It was pouring rain so I decided to do a trail run in my treksports today for the added grip. While that did work, I still end up with the same fatigue of landing harder - even though I went without my tunes and was specifically listening for a soft landing. Guess I have to stick to the KSOs for man-made gravel trails and au-naturale for everything else.



I have a pair of Komodo Sports that I think provides a pretty decent middle ground, regardless of their intended purpose. The sole isn't as hard as the Bikila, and it's got the extra strap around the heel for a more adjustable fit.


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## Bevo

Tiger said:


> Today stung pretty bad. If I had looked at my watch and seen time/distance, I could have easily crushed an 18 minute 5k...with the first warm up mile at 8:12.
> 
> I took a week off from running and only squatted once, and went out for a fun run today and everything was effortless. Got back to my house at 2.53 miles and had I looked at my watch I could have easily kicked a half mile to get a PR with two fast splits...missed opportunity hurts.
> 
> 102 miler on Friday...



Exciting!!
What is your strategy and eating plan look like including products?
I seen a post where Anton K ate gummie bears and drank Coke for his last long race.

A couple guys use perpetum but that stuff tastes like ass, I can't imagine how it would be after 20 hours!

What kind of time are you hoping for and did you run some of the course?
I seen the outline and elevation, you have a long day ahead of you...


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## Tiger

I use Infinite Nutrition for my fluid, GU Roctane/Peanutbutter gels, and a lot of real food. Also going to use that Vespa stuff, I was really impressed by it.

Originally I wanted 24 hours, but after reading race reports from far better runners than me going towards 30 hours...Im hoping for 30. We'll see. I dont feel prepared, but Ive done as much as I could with the military and a new baby in the house. Strategy is mainly keep heart 140-150 going up regardless of speed, and going down my goal is to not eat it, especially at night.

I havent run any of it, but I wouldnt want to. Ive been on the AT before, its gonna be rough. Looking at this as less of a race and more of a literal journey now, I cant fathom being a goat on this course


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## Infamous Impact

What do you guys use to clean your shoes? I have severe hyperhidrosis, which makes my shoes an effective biological weapon. Baking soda doesn't cut it.


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## Bevo

Its going to be a mental one for sure.

Good luck on your run, stay strong and think of your new baby during the down times!!
You got this!!


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## SenorDingDong

vanhendrix said:


> What kind of vibrams do you use? I initially got the treksports for trail running but found that I was landing too hard due to the 'rock blocking' stuff. After a bout of sore ankles I switched to the KSOs, which are fantastic. I keep sneaking up on things now because I'm so quiet when I run



I only wear Vibrams--literally. I run. But I also do parkour, frequently involving higher impact landings from up to twelve foot heights. I use the KSOs and the Sprints, which have less padding than nearly all of the other Vibram models (the sole on the Bikila is, in actuality, thicker than that of the KSO or Sprint, not to mention Bikilas have extra padding). I have not had a single injury. In fact, I love the Vibrams simply for the fact that they _force_ me to land well every single time. If I were to ever neglect to pay attention to my form I'd most likely wreck my ankles.


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## Bevo

Infamous Impact said:


> What do you guys use to clean your shoes? I have severe hyperhidrosis, which makes my shoes an effective biological weapon. Baking soda doesn't cut it.



Rivers and rain LOL!!

Other than hosing off the mud I don't think I have ever washed my shoes intentionally. I have seen in the hockey stores a soap made for getting the stink out of our gear, I have not used it but a couple guys I play with do and they love it.
Call you local hockey shop.....then again do you even have hockey shops where you are?


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## Infamous Impact

Bevo said:


> Rivers and rain LOL!!
> 
> Other than hosing off the mud I don't think I have ever washed my shoes intentionally. I have seen in the hockey stores a soap made for getting the stink out of our gear, I have not used it but a couple guys I play with do and they love it.
> Call you local hockey shop.....then again do you even have hockey shops where you are?


I do, I'll check. Thanks!


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## SnowfaLL

Just to give an update from literally last year in December when I couldn't even run 500km, well after joining the military and running pretty much every second day, by April I completed 8km ! That's something I never thought I'd be able to do. I took a few months off since July but still was able to run two 5kms in the last two weeks.

Still hate running but least able to kinda do some now lol so anyone thinking they'll never get there, keep working and if I can do it, so can you. Consistency is the key!


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## Fiction

NickCormier said:


> I couldn't even run 500km


 
Noob! 

Good job, man!


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## ROB SILVER

I've recently started running again after about 10 years off.

My trousers were starting to get a bit too snug shall we say.

I'm up to about 15k on a Saturday morning, but I've been struggling to keep it up as winter closes in and it get colder and rains more here in London.


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## Bevo

Welcome!

Invest in some breathable rain jacket, don't worry about shoes they will get wet but stay warm with wool socks.


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## ROB SILVER

Bevo said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Invest in some breathable rain jacket, don't worry about shoes they will get wet but stay warm with wool socks.



I know...

My girlfriend just got me a load of winter running gear for Christmas, the leggings look a bit scary though.

I'll hit the park tomorrow!


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## Infamous Impact

ROB SILVER said:


> I know...
> 
> My girlfriend just got me a load of winter running gear for Christmas, the leggings look a bit scary though.
> 
> I'll hit the park tomorrow!


Leggings are amazing. I understood why girls wear yoga pants all the time after putting a pair on.


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## troyguitar

Yeah, they do it so guys will stare at their asses.


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## Watty

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, they do it so guys will stare at their asses.



*...Here, let me frame that for you.*

_*glares*_

"What are you staring at?!"


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## Infamous Impact

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, they do it so guys will stare at their asses.


Well, no homo right? 
They're stupidly comfortable to run and lift in. That's the only use I have for them.


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## Bevo

Had a nice month off to reset the body fix up some minor injuries, even have the pot belly to prove it LOL!!

I have a 50 miler coming in April and also have to train for some long bike rides and some short course bike races. Planing to have a great year with some new bike stuff and only key trail races.

Had a run this morning and its amazing how out of shape I feel with just a few weeks off, Im sure it will come back fast but for now I just feel fat lol!!


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