# Secondary Dominants



## cob (Feb 12, 2010)

We are discussing this stuff in Music theory right now. i think it's a pretty good concept and a great way to fake modulation. Anyone know any songs that use this concept?


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## JohnIce (Feb 12, 2010)

If secondary dominants is what I think it is (I did my theory classes in swedish), then I'd say pretty much any song that uses the II and III chords would be using secondary dominants? Or are we talking about different concepts?

Or maybe you're talking about major and minor dominatns in a minor key? For example Em being the dominant to Am while E7 is the dominant to A harmonic minor?


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## 777 (Feb 12, 2010)

Secondary dominants are a perfect 5th from the root of the ii-iii-IV-vi-vii Chords

Theyre basicly another way to get a bit more tension/resolution in a tune and make things a bit more interesting than just V7-Imaj7 

Youll see them in pretty much any Jazz Standard by the way Cob =]


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 12, 2010)

cob said:


> We are discussing this stuff in Music theory right now. i think it's a pretty good concept and a great way to fake modulation. Anyone know any songs that use this concept?


They're a great way to actually modulate, too. 

Secondary dominants are just dominant chords that prepare another chord. They can be used to spice up a chord progression, or to lead your ear to another key. Check this out:

D Em F#m G A7 D

That's I ii iii IV V7 I in D. Now, let's try to spice it up a little.

D Em F#m G E7 A7 D

That's I ii iii IV V7/V V7 I in D. E7 is our secondary dominant (V/V, pronounced "five-of-five"). It makes the move to V stronger.

Here's a minor example:

Dm Eø7 A D7 Gm A7 Dm

We analyze that as i iiø7 V V7/iv iv V7 i in D minor. The secondary dominant, in this case, is D7, which we label "V/iv" (five-of-four).

You can have deceptive cadences of the secondary dominant, too, like so:

D A7 D7 Em A Bm G A7 D

I V7 V7/IV ii V vi IV V7 I. Here, there are two deceptive cadences, V7/IV-ii, and V-vi. But we're only going to talk about the one involving the secondary dominant. Notice that the secondary chord is the dominant of the IV chord, yet it goes to a ii chord. You can think of ii as vi/IV, if that helps visualize the deceptive cadence in there.


And then there's modulation. If you take those secondary chords, and instead of going on with your progression, continue the progression in the key that your secondary chord goes to, then you have modulated. For example:

D A D Em E7 E7(b9) Am Bø7 Am Dm E7 Am

D A D Em is I V I ii in the key of D, E7 and E7(b9) are V/V. But what happens after that? Am isn't in the key of D. Nor is any of that other crap.

If we analyze E7 E7(b9) Am Bø7 Am Dm E7 Am,
it's V7 V7(b9) i iiø7 i iv V7 i in the key of A minor. We have changed key centres from D to A. Ta-da, modulation!


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## Hollowway (Feb 13, 2010)

^^Holy crap, do you ever know your theory!


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## xtrustisyoursx (Feb 13, 2010)

really, secondary anything chords are great. secondary dominants, leading tone chords (diminished), you can even have secondary super-dominant chords (to prep a secondary dominant)


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 13, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> ^^Holy crap, do you ever know your theory!



This is true. Unfortunately, I can't think of a tune that really uses secondary dominants, outside of classical. Usually, modulations in pop and rock music are direct, and don't necessarily follow Common Practice Period voice leading. In jazz, it's extremely common to have secondary dominants, but my awareness of jazz is rather limited. Look at any leadsheet, find all the dominant and diminished chords, and there's a good chance that you'll find a few secondary functions. More often then not, though, there will be a ii V I progression in a new key. If you want to be technical, the ii is a secondary subdominant function, and the V is a secondary dominant, facilitating a brief modulation to a new tonic.



Here's an example I found of a V/V that should be familiar to all of us:

http://musictheoryexamples.com/10MTV/MTVb.html

We're in C major. On the second beat of measure 7 (and again at 15), there is a D chord that acts as the V of G (which is the V of C).


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## cob (Feb 19, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> They're a great way to actually modulate, too.
> 
> Secondary dominants are just dominant chords that prepare another chord. They can be used to spice up a chord progression, or to lead your ear to another key. Check this out:
> 
> ...


 
That's a pretty nice analysis dude. I'm working on a euphonium suite right now(gotta practice writing for every instrument if you wanna get better, I think). It's in Cmin and the progression I have after the first cadence is vii/iv iv V/iv iv V i(IAC) iv/iv iv i. I thought about just making it a modulation into the key of Fmin since it's basically a ton of cadences in a row but I haven't decided yet.

I thought about doing it as a vii/iv v/iv iv/iv i iv V i. i like the idea of the secondary plagal cadence(iv/iv to iv or Bbmin to fmin) into a primary plagal(iv to i, fmin to cmin) because the fmin chord acts as a transition between the Bb and C making an overall PAC with the sound of two plagals. Plus I thought vii to i wasn't soundin to right as a progression. Does it make sense to do that? Also, I like that deceptive cadence where you resolve to the ii. Would that work where I have the IAC? Or would it not work in minor due to the iio. Would a neopolitan work?


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## troyguitar (Feb 19, 2010)

At about 1:17 it goes to a secondary dominant. The key is B (harmonic) minor and it goes to a C# major which is not in the key, it's a V/V chord (V of F# = C#) that precedes the V (F# major).


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## anne (Feb 19, 2010)

The chord at 5:28 of By the Pain I See in Others (Opeth, of course) is a secondary dominant on the third, and the chord after it, 5:29-5:32, is the dominant. It is a secondary dominant rather than just another chord in the scale because the bass note (which is the third), is sharped.


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