# NGD: ROFLsome Ibanez RG652AHM Prestige



## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

I have this problem: I keep letting Ibanez tease me with potential.

Last year I ordered an SR5005. It came with a giant mahogany splinter along the top contour. Impossible not to notice as it would literally rip a hole in your shirt (personal experience). The dealer made me go the warranty service route. I got the replacement which had had its nut replaced. The nuts on this model are satin'd over on the sides so as to make from neck to nut a seamless transition. The incompetent tech at Hoshino USA didn't even bother scoring the nut before knocking it out. He then replaced it with a crude, unpolished nut that was cut too short for the shelf. It made a mess of the headstock finish and looked like my handiwork when I was in 4th grade just starting out. The next replacement after that was a keeper but needless to say the whole shitty experience affects my relationship with that bass to this day. I'll eventually get past it I'm sure. You can read about that bass here, with pics.

Then last week I got an RG652MPB from Sweetwater. The frets were toolmarked to hell and bends felt as gross as on any guitar I've played, but I polished them up and they felt great. I wanted to make sure it had the potential to play well before I thought about exchanging it for another similar model rather than returning it and running away as I should have. I had to send it back because the finish wasn't durable (it's just paint--no satin clear coat to protect it) and it had countless paint bumps on it which would inevitably be buffed away by my arm, hand and shirt, leaving raw wood. Oh, that and a big splinter missing from the pickup route. You can read about that guitar here, with pics, in a Schecter thread where I had a clever epiphany about going with Ibanez instead.

So at the same time I returned that one, I ordered an RG652AHM. I knew the finish would be much more durable, even if the guitar looks a little plain. I liked it, though. I figured I'd get a stable finish and if I was lucky it would play just as well.

I wasn't lucky.










Look at how subtle the problem is. No surprise at all that Sweetwater Master Technicians Jacob H. and Terry L. failed to detect the problem when performing their *'one-of-a-kind'* service, the *Expert 55-point Evaluation*.

If I was to cut some index cards so that they don't run the entire length of the pocket, there are places I could easily fit four of them, perhaps more. This pocket is so loose I can't even come up with anatomical innuendo strong enough to convey its looseness. The neck doesn't even mate with the end of the pocket in front of the neck pickup. I nearly forgot to mention the frets are almost as toolmarked at the RG652MPB, but have the added benefit of razor-sharp fret bottoms on the edge of the binding. That's a bitch to fix without harming the delicate binding.

I have to take this as a sign. I am NOT meant to have another Prestige--at least not a new one. I can't believe my (third) SR5005 is playable. Jesus must have made that one good just to fuck with my head.


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## XiXora (Sep 8, 2017)

Are you very unlucky or have their QC process gone down the pan since I bought my last Ibanez?


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## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

I could be a vindictive asshole and say 'I'm not unlucky, my experiences are representative of the whole' and it would be somewhat understandable as these experiences of the last 14 months have made me pretty goddamn bitter, but to be perfectly honest about it, I think I am that unlucky.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 8, 2017)

fuck i can't believe that there are subpar prestiges. That kind of information is going to cause sso to implode.


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## BMO (Sep 8, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> fuck i can't believe that there are subpar prestiges. That kind of information is going to cause sso to implode.




If ESP dips this far too then everyone on this website might have simultaneous aneurisms


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## couverdure (Sep 8, 2017)

Like I said earlier in the Gibson thread, this is more apparent on models with fancier woods and finishes so the process can be a lot more challenging than just the usual 3/5-piece maple neck, rosewood fretboard, and basswood body with simple finishes.


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## gunch (Sep 8, 2017)

couverdure said:


> Like I said earlier in the Gibson thread, this is more apparent on models with fancier woods and finishes so the process can be a lot more challenging than just the usual 3/5-piece maple neck, rosewood fretboard, and basswood body with simple finishes.



Whats that have to do with that tragic neck pocket?

Sorry about your bad luck op, time to start testing other brands?


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## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

Yeah, I don't think we can blame that on the presence of body binding...


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## couverdure (Sep 8, 2017)

I never hear these issues on the standard-spec'd Prestige models, I was saying this seems specific to those kind of Prestiges as well as the Premiums and Iron Labels with similar specs (though most of you would claim it's the Indo QC on those two).


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## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

I think silverabyss and I just don't see the causal link in this case because this isn't finish-related at all. The pocket is enormous and the neck was mis-drilled such that it is stuck more or less that way. There's not enough 'give' in the world to correct it by screwing around with the neck bolts.


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## gunch (Sep 8, 2017)

That's something Sweetwater should have looked at and been like "Damn..." 

I would go full Becky on them on the phone


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 8, 2017)

Wow, I can't believe your luck, that's very upsetting.
The misalignment is so glaringly obvious. So much space at the low E and the high E is just about off the fretboard entirely at the 24th fret.

All I can say is that I wish you the best of luck getting another guitar, whatever guitar that may be.


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## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you. I think I'm just going to watch eBay/Reverb for a while as I ponder doing another Musikraft/KnE build. I would much rather be at fault for my guitar's problems than someone else I have to resolve issues with.



silverabyss said:


> That's something Sweetwater should have looked at and been like "Damn..."
> 
> I would go full Becky on them on the phone



Absolutely. Planning to give my 'Sales Engineer' a call Monday, unless they work the weekends. I'll have to look into that. I don't want anyone to be fired, but I want Master Technicians Jacob H. and Terry L. to have to look at this guitar with their boss and ponder how in the living fuck this bastard of an inbred gravedigger and a gutter trollop made it to a customer's doorstep.


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## Hollowway (Sep 8, 2017)

I see the index cards in the last photo, but what am I looking at in the first two? I can't really see the neck pocket in those.


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## farren (Sep 8, 2017)

You're looking at a cataclysmically misaligned neck.


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 8, 2017)

it's all just ibanez qc now. lololol


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## Hollowway (Sep 8, 2017)

farren said:


> You're looking at a cataclysmically misaligned neck.


Oh, holy hell, now I see what you're looking at! I was trying to see the neck pocket, and missed the fact that the neck and strings are in different zip codes. Good lord, I've never seen a neck farther off than that. It definitely isn't a loosen-the-screws-and-bump-it-over type alignment. It's a "did you get the license plate number of the car that hit it" type alignment.


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## nyxzz (Sep 8, 2017)

Man...just get an RG570 or something and call it a day.


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## couverdure (Sep 9, 2017)

I'm just very worried that this site is starting to develop some new hatred for Ibanez because of the lemons they have been receiving lately. I always thought they're one of the more respectable bigger guitar companies out there because they've always been appealing for many due to their features and prices and they haven't done too much questionable choices in creating their products, quality control issues aside. I really hope this is just a minority because I don't want to see them go down the gutter like how people treat Legator and Kiesel.


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## farren (Sep 9, 2017)

I think your worries are slightly misplaced. Worry that perhaps QC _is_ failing, not that people might start slating the company more because of the _perception_ that it may be. Worry about what the cause might be, not the effect. That's what separates a fan from a fanboi.

Again, I hope I am just unlucky. No player benefits from more shitty guitars in the wild to have to dodge.


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## Hollowway (Sep 9, 2017)

couverdure said:


> I'm just very worried that this site is starting to develop some new hatred for Ibanez because of the lemons they have been receiving lately. I always thought they're one of the more respectable bigger guitar companies out there because they've always been appealing for many due to their features and prices and they haven't done too much questionable choices in creating their products, quality control issues aside. I really hope this is just a minority because I don't want to see them go down the gutter like how people treat Legator and Kiesel.



The issues with Legator are well documented QC failures that the company denied, despite evidence to the contrary. The issues with Kiesel are obvious QC issues that Jeff became a petulant schoolboy about, and took his toys and went home. Ibanez still has far more success stories than not. And this site is quite measured in its response to QC issues of any company. 

You would think that biting the hand that feeds you would be an obviously bad business move, but companies continue to do it. Studies have shown that it costs 5 times as much to get a new customer vs keeping an existing one. So when Jeff Kiesel bans a customer with a QC issue from ever ordering again (a customer who has already ordered 3 guitars from them), you have to wonder if there is any reason to stand behind a company like that. It just doesn't bode well for a future customer with an issue. 

How _should_ a company deal with QC issues? Try really hard, and know be aware of the optics. Take this recent post by John Suhr on Facebook. He addressed a QC snafu a Suhr customer had. So I would ask anyone with $3000 for a custom guitar: Do you want to give it to Kiesel, and maybe get a QC issue with a lot of attitude and pushback, or to Suhr, where the guy will do whatever he can to make you happy? Anyway, here's John's post from FB:

"Hey, everyone. The Customer Service team and I have read the comments on this page and wanted you to know that we are listening. Our doors are always open to hearing both positive and negative feedback. We can only imagine how frustrating things have been for Evrim. While there are two sides to every story, it’s true that we had to get Evrim’s guitar back several times to make things right. We absolutely missed things with this build and it’s taken longer than anyone would have wanted to make things right.

The bottom line is that when someone orders a custom instrument, it should be an exciting and happy time. It’s terrible when, what should be a joyful experience, becomes a source of frustration to a customer. The majority of people who order our custom instruments are completely happy and in love with their guitars. Occasionally, mistakes happen. Sometimes wood does crazy things. Sometimes people mess up. Sometimes multiple people mess up multiple times. We are not here to tell you that we are perfect and that mistakes don’t happen. We are here to reaffirm our complete dedication to customer satisfaction. When things go wrong, our focus is on making it right, regardless of who is at fault. When we make mistakes, we try to learn from them and make changes internally to grow and get better at our craft. We will do everything we can, no matter how long it takes, to make someone happy.

Evrim, we know it has been a long journey and we are glad to read that you are now enjoying the guitar. It is our hope that with time, the negative feelings will diminish and that you will enjoy the instrument for many decades to come. We are here for you if you need us." -John Suhr


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## Millul (Sep 9, 2017)

John is THE man. I've been wanting to give Suhr my money for a while now, but they're still a bit out of my range...!


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## Supernaut (Sep 9, 2017)

This is a CNC machine error, that neck pocket is bad and will never be good without being re-cut. I see this all the time on old strats, definitely wouldn't expect it on a modern Ibanez.


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## fps (Sep 9, 2017)

I mean, yeah it's not good. But this thing is always going to happen more often when ordering sight-unseen rather than going to a guitar shop and playing the one you're going to buy. And you can return it. So, return it and get a good one?


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## purpledc (Sep 9, 2017)

I have a theory on that neck pocket but its just a theory based on my recent experience refinishing the neck on my premium. I noticed when putting the neck back on the guitar that both the body as well as the neck were threaded. It may not have been intentional. The body may have just been drilled with too small of holes and the screws created the threads. If you have threads on both the body and the neck the neck needs to be fully seated before you start screwing down the screws. If there is a gap when you start tightening down the screws to begin with that screw will keep the body and neck separated. I'm wondering if the same thing happened with that prestige.


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## lewis (Sep 9, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> Oh, holy hell, now I see what you're looking at! I was trying to see the neck pocket, and missed the fact that the neck and strings are in different zip codes. Good lord, I've never seen a neck farther off than that. It definitely isn't a loosen-the-screws-and-bump-it-over type alignment. It's a "did you get the license plate number of the car that hit it" type alignment.


haha I did exactly the same thing as this.

Jesus that is utterly appalling. How the crap are they shipping guitars, and PRESTIGE'S, too with these issues?.
Thats disgraceful.


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2017)

The sloppy neck pocket is indefensible, absolutely, but the misaligned neck isn't necessarily something Sweetwater would've seen- it could have slipped during shipping. Of course, it wouldn't have happened if the neck pocket weren't the size of the grand canyon. I trust SW to make it right for you, that's a garbage guitar.


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## purpledc (Sep 9, 2017)

jephjacques said:


> The sloppy neck pocket is indefensible, absolutely, but the misaligned neck isn't necessarily something Sweetwater would've seen- it could have slipped during shipping. Of course, it wouldn't have happened if the neck pocket weren't the size of the grand canyon. I trust SW to make it right for you, that's a garbage guitar.




I honestly don't think the neck pocket is wrong. I just don't think the neck was fully pressed into the pocket before someone screwed the neck down. I had the exact same thing happen with my premium when I went to put it back together. I unscrewed the neck bolts, made sure the neck was seated properly and screwed them back down and all is good.


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## Supernaut (Sep 9, 2017)

There's 3 possibilities:

1. Neck loose due to incorrect seating / not screwed properly.
2. Pocket incorrectly cut at CNC routing, misaligned regardless of neck.
3. Pocket fine (perhaps wider than normal), neck holes drilled at wrong angle.


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 9, 2017)

I thought you were missing a low string when I looked at it quickly. That is unbelievable! Razor sharp fret ends have been a common problem on maple boards for years with Ibanez. For some reason they don't bother rounding them off.


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## lewis (Sep 9, 2017)

are guitars quickly played/tried out before they are restrung with new strings and sent out?

because if not and QC just consists of looking at it quickly and saying to yourself "I dont see any damage, this is fine....NEXT"
then thats where these issues come from. Surely just 2 minutes noodling on some guitars would prevent these problems.

I dont think I would have much problem with that If i were the buyer. Especially if it meant they could say to me "We tried the guitar and you are going to love this. It plays flawlessly."
I would be well pumped to get it.

Rather that that "oooh great someone looked at it for 10 seconds but it arrived and the neck was not even installed properly"


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 9, 2017)

but sweet water has a 55 point inspection of some sort.


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## High Plains Drifter (Sep 9, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> but sweet water has a 55 point inspection of some sort.



I've always thought that their "55 point inspection" is basically 5 guys pointing at the same guitar 11 times and saying "looks good". 

Not bashing on them. I've given them a lot of my money over the years.


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## purpledc (Sep 9, 2017)

Yeah, I buy almost all my gear from SW. As such I have no love for their 55 point inspection. But the fact that they ALWAYS make it right is why I go back. I absolutely hate confronting a dealer on defective gear and they immediately go full diva and start with the "it was perfect when it shipped" horseshit. I have had that from dealers as well as private sales. Never had it with sweetwater.


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## Lemonbaby (Sep 9, 2017)

I can imagine how annoyed you must be when you'd expect a top of the line Ibanez. Quite honestly, I'm surprised how that even passed both Ibby's QC and Sweetwater's checkup. Never seen anything like that, even on the Premium IBZs I've owned/played.

Send it in, ask for a new one. The Prestige guitars are usually brilliant instruments.


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## Velokki (Sep 9, 2017)

Premiums and Iron Labels are inherently a cointoss - it's really a matter of chance whether you'll get a nice instrument or not. And for ex. the RGDIX6 is a guitar that I've tried in 4 different shops, and the frets have always been painful and the finish has looked super cheap. It's like they systematically churned out guitars that felt like shit.
But Prestiges have never failed me. Shame to see guitars like these here!


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## farren (Sep 9, 2017)

When we talk about Ibanez's QC, that's TWO different facilities... FujiGen and Hoshino USA. Remarkable.

If this was a minor defect, I could excuse Sweetwater's QC failure, but the problem here is so flagrant that the only thing I can conclude is Jacob H. and Terry L. did not carry out their complete checks at all. I'm not saying they never go through the proper procedures (other techs might be more thorough than them, which would not be difficult), but I have experienced enough and read enough from others to know that no one should go with Sweetwater based in part on their 55-point evaluation. The reason you should go with Sweetwater is that they offer great service when there is a problem. But without proper QC at Sweetwater, it is more likely you're going to have a problem with them than many other dealers.

Quoting from the details of the "55-point evaluation" outlined here:

"Check intonation with strobe tuner and adjust as needed"

Nope, wasn't done. That slant is enough to throw off the intonation beyond what you'd expect from traditional straight frets. Intonation goes beyond matching nut and 12th. It needs to be checked elsewhere to ensure at a minimum that the frets are not leveled blocks of metal, skewing the breaking point of each fret toward the bridge. Any guitar can be intoned to be right at one point, just like open strings can always be made to be in tune with one another.

"*Play* *all notes on the fretboard* and check for buzz"

These guys fretted the 19th, the 21st, the 24th on the high E string and didn't notice it felt funny? With mile-high saddle and nut action, and neck curvature fit for archery there was certainly no buzz, at least, but I never hold a bad factory setup against a company.

"*Play a range of* *bends* to check for stable tuning"

Jacob and Terry played some bends up high on the high E and didn't notice they were falling off the fret if their vibrato took them slightly below neutral (toward the ground)?

"*Play* *variety* of chords and *styles*"

Clearly any licks in a 'style' that involves notes high up on the neck were not among Jacob and Terry's repertoire.

"Check neck"

Heh, yeah.

"Check neck joint"

Fuck's sake...

I have no doubt Sweetwater will make the return process easy for me, but I will never play the Ibanez lottery again. I'm not the least bit superstitious, but it's just not meant to be. I'm not statistically 'owed' a good one just because 4 of my 5 have been bad ones. I think I'm ethically owed a good one, but who am I going to trust? Sweetwater's big--their system is likely highly compartmentalized. The guy picking out a replacement to send to a customer probably isn't the guy privy to the particulars of the case. He probably doesn't have TIME to be particular, which is likely a big part of the problem. I do sympathize with the quotas these QC techs may be slaving under. To make matters worse, this guitar was ordered the Tuesday after Labor Day and shipped out Wednesday. But again, this is hardly a subtle issue. These guys do know what guitars are supposed to look like, right?

On the other end of things, I love Bill (CS) at Hoshino. He's a painfully delightful guy to deal with, but I know from past experience he can't strong-arm the guys who check and send out the warranty replacement guitars into applying a critical eye, the kind they themselves rely on when buying an instrument they will actually play, and pick an exceptional instrument just to make a customer happy. No matter what someone goes through, I don't think Hoshino is going to provide a normal guy like me with Artist Relations-level service. I see a virtuoso-level guitarist like Johan Reinholdz touring with Dark Tranquillity playing Iron Label guitars Ibanez sent him, and I think to myself, 'I can't pay several hundred dollars more and get a comparatively playable instrument out of the box after multiple tries?'

purpledc, I had the same experience after refinishing the neck on my old Kramer Baretta. The neck holes were threaded and could only fit one way, and since the heel had initially been unfinished and had a bit of paint from the body on it (for some reason--blame ESP), the threads on the neck and body no longer lined up perfectly post-refin. The result was the neck sat at a tilt rather than flat in the pocket. This ain't that.

I lowered the string tension and slid out a neck bolt to confirm the neck holes were not threaded on this RG. Like I suspected, the wiggle room isn't adequate to overcome such an enormous misalignment.

Here's what happened at the factory, more or less: The pocket is enormous and when the neck holes were being drilled, with all the options of neck placement, the wrong position was understandably chosen. That is a damn hard thing to eyeball. If it were even worth correcting, the neck holes would have to be doweled and someone would have to very carefully re-drill them through the body holes in the perfect place. If not perfect, the neck remains crooked. If perfect, you still have big enough gaps on either side to store spare picks. The fact is the pocket NEEDS to be a tight fit but not so tight as to chip the finish of the face of the body when pressing the neck down into the pocket. A tight pocket serves as a guide so that guy at the drill press doesn't have to try to line the neck up perfectly before drilling through. It should just fit, especially on a "Prestige" guitar, and the pocket itself serves as the jig.

I can't speculate as to how it happened when the pockets are no doubt CNC'd. It's not rough as though the body became destabilized and moved around on the table. Ever tried to put a 2-3/16" heel width neck (typical) into a 2-1/4" pocket (Jackson/Charvel)? This might be even more dramatic. No one has raised the possibility that the neck is actually narrow, but that seems unlikely to me. It seems Prestige necks are consistently excellent, fretwork aside.


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## purpledc (Sep 9, 2017)

farren said:


> When we talk about Ibanez's QC, that's TWO different facilities... FujiGen and Hoshino USA. Remarkable.
> 
> If this was a minor defect, I could excuse Sweetwater's QC failure, but the problem here is so flagrant that the only thing I can conclude is Jacob H. and Terry L. did not carry out their complete checks at all. I'm not saying they never go through the proper procedures (other techs might be more thorough than them, which would not be difficult), but I have experienced enough and read enough from others to know that no one should go with Sweetwater based in part on their 55-point evaluation. The reason you should go with Sweetwater is that they offer great service when there is a problem. But without proper QC at Sweetwater, it is more likely you're going to have a problem with them than many other dealers.
> 
> ...




Thats not what i was describing. What i am describing is a necks inability to seat properly because both the body as well as the neck were threaded. If you make a guitar like that and dont make sure the neck is sitting flush in the body before you tighten the neck bolts down any gap between the body and neck wont resolve itself because the screws bottom out in the body before the neck can be pulled into the neck pocket. The neck bolts need to be able to free spin in the body with no threading at all so that when the screw head bottoms out it will still spin freely and pull the neck into the pocket. On my guitar the neck sat out almost a quarter inch from flush and it was because the gap i left when bolting the neck back down essentially had the whole neck basically floating on stilts. The only way i was able to resolve it without reaming out the body hole was to remove all four neck bolts and seat the neck completely flush before putting the first screw in. Of course I cant say for sure what was up with yours without actually seeing it. But usually backing out one screw wont matter. You need to remove all four because if even one of those body holes are threaded it sets that gap if it wasnt flush when assembling.


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## Leviathus (Sep 9, 2017)

Yikes @ that string alignment!

Note to self: Buy future MIJ Ibbys through Ibanezrules.


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## Yousef (Sep 9, 2017)

farren said:


> but who am I going to trust?



Have you considered an Ibanez from Rich at ibanezrules.com? He rejects many of the "horrid QC" Prestiges, takes his pick of the best ones, and for the same price as what Sweetwater sells it for, you'll get a real deal setup including a full fret level to ensure low action without any chocking frets (silver package). Check the website out: http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/index.htm and here's a detailed list of everything that he performs before he ships out a guitar: http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/setup_levels.htm


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 9, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> That is unbelievable! Razor sharp fret ends have been a common problem on maple boards for years with Ibanez. For some reason they don't bother rounding them off.


I disagree. I changed the neck of my premium model for this one:
http://www.meinlshop.de/en/ibanez/s...ibanez-neck-for-rg1550mz-2010model-1nk00a0039
And i have bought the second one for my own built. The necks are made almost perfectly. The only thing was the lack of the shiny surface of the frets. I just polished them with the felt. No tuning stability problems, ultra low action, no dead spots, no buzz, no sharp fret edges. Just plain good neck. And when i was buying them, they costed about 350€. That was a great value imho.

Regarding the OP's guitar. Damn, mate, that guitar is just a rubbish. Try another one. Maybe now You get no badluck. BTW the fretboard should have been birdseye maple, not the noeye maple


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## farren (Sep 9, 2017)

purpledc said:


> Thats not what i was describing. What i am describing is a necks inability to seat properly because both the body as well as the neck were threaded. If you make a guitar like that and dont make sure the neck is sitting flush in the body before you tighten the neck bolts down any gap between the body and neck wont resolve itself because the screws bottom out in the body before the neck can be pulled into the neck pocket. The neck bolts need to be able to free spin in the body with no threading at all so that when the screw head bottoms out it will still spin freely and pull the neck into the pocket. On my guitar the neck sat out almost a quarter inch from flush and it was because the gap i left when bolting the neck back down essentially had the whole neck basically floating on stilts. The only way i was able to resolve it without reaming out the body hole was to remove all four neck bolts and seat the neck completely flush before putting the first screw in. Of course I cant say for sure what was up with yours without actually seeing it. But usually backing out one screw wont matter. You need to remove all four because if even one of those body holes are threaded it sets that gap if it wasnt flush when assembling.



Damn, man, you and I have some communication issues... That's what I just described, except I muddled my story a bit when I said "threaded neck holes" when I meant to say "threaded body holes" (of course the neck holes were threaded ). I'll be more thorough.

The Kramer has a neck and body made by ESP and finished in NJ. NJ finished the neck and body and screwed the neck into the body with the heel tight, flat in the pocket, so the threads lined up perfectly. When I refinished the neck decades later, I scraped off some stray black paint from the heel (and now that I think about it, a bit from the pocket base as well) with a razor and refinished the heel of the neck with the same satin poly as the rest of the neck. After this, the threads no longer met perfectly because of the slight changes to the topography of both mating surfaces, and the result was a neck that mounted ajar as opposed to one with a practically airtight surface-to-surface connection. Needless to say I reamed out the body holes. We're definitely talking about the same phenomena here.

Regarding this RG, though, the neck is definitely sitting flush against the mating surface. You'll forgive me if I don't want to drag that monstrosity out of the case again to check the other three holes.



Lorcan Ward said:


> I thought you were missing a low string when I looked at it quickly. That is unbelievable! Razor sharp fret ends have been a common problem on maple boards for years with Ibanez. For some reason they don't bother rounding them off.



Yep, that has been Rich's experience. Not terribly surprisingly the RG652MPB didn't have sharp fret bottoms. It didn't have binding. The RG652AHM with binding did. Either they're cautious because of the binding, or the slight give of the binding is enough to expose the fret bottoms. I imagine the more general problem is they don't take risks finishing the frets in order to avoid damaging the finished fingerboard. I'd rather get a neck that has been sprayed post-fretwork (I think Fenders come that way?). I don't mind removing poly from frets.

Whatever the case they need to stop advertising "Prestige Fret End Treatment" on maples.



Yousef said:


> Have you considered an Ibanez from Rich at ibanezrules.com? He rejects many of the "horrid QC" Prestiges, takes his pick of the best ones, and for the same price as what Sweetwater sells it for, you'll get a real deal setup including a full fret level to ensure low action without any chocking frets (silver package). Check the website out: http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/index.htm and here's a detailed list of everything that he performs before he ships out a guitar: http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/setup_levels.htm



I have considered this (it's what I should have done to begin with), but feel I should quit while I'm well behind. The house has me selling my figurative kidneys at this point. I'm comfortable doing fretwork so I wouldn't need a special package, unless I could pay a little extra just to get one that isn't a piece of shit which would only satisfy a 12-year-old, which I happily would have done before the RG652AHM. I think I'm too damaged at this point to try Ibanez anymore. I don't want to hate my SR5005.

I'm moving onto Kiesel whose QC I trust to do me right every time. You know, cut out the middleman, buy direct, get masterful QC right here in the USA.

Kidding... My first guitar horror story was courtesy the old Carvin (when they were considered "good"), but this thread contains enough of my bitching without adding that sad story of the shattered dreams of a naive child...


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

"55 point inspection/setup" and everyone of them failed. How the fuck do you let that abortion get out? Did they notice and just not care, or did they not even bother to notice? What a fucking joke. I like Sweetwater, a lot actually, but that is absolutely embarrassing. I'm sure they'll take care of you, but holy Jesus goddamn, that's horrendous. I don't like Ibanez anyways, but it seems like it's time for Ibanez to pack it in if they can't do something as necessary as neck alignment so that the strings aren't that far off from where they are supposed to be. And this isn't the first Ibanez I've seen like this, but it certainly is the worst that I can remember off hand.


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## Edika (Sep 10, 2017)

I think I remember a thread, which I'm not sure if it was yours, asking about the neck pockets and showing photos from a store of one of the white finished RG652, asking about tge neck pocket.

Damn this looks bad and at some point I was considering one of these. Not anymore unless I try one in person.


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## lewis (Sep 10, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> "55 point inspection/setup" and everyone of them failed. How the fuck do you let that abortion get out? Did they notice and just not care, or did they not even bother to notice? What a fucking joke. I like Sweetwater, a lot actually, but that is absolutely embarrassing. I'm sure they'll take care of you, but holy Jesus goddamn, that's horrendous. I don't like Ibanez anyways, but it seems like it's time for Ibanez to pack it in if they can't do something as necessary as neck alignment so that the strings aren't that far off from where they are supposed to be. And this isn't the first Ibanez I've seen like this, but it certainly is the worst that I can remember off hand.



Well said.
I used to be such an Ibanez fanboy. But once I sold my last one, the RG8, I see no reason to ever return.
For different reasons, they are starting to resemble Dean imo.
I.e a fair few guitars that look nice in pictures (cereal box guitars), but are built and play in the most shocking manner.

I will always love the RGA and RGD body shapes. But I cannot bring myself to buy another Ibanez.
Embarrassing that my old GIO range starter Ibanez, looked to have been built better and also play better, than this BRAND NEW PRESTIGE.....?

How can their be such a screw up like that.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 10, 2017)

Is it possible that the bridge is offset? Or is it absolutely the fault of the neck/neck pocket?


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 10, 2017)

lewis said:


> Well said.
> I used to be such an Ibanez fanboy. But once I sold my last one, the RG8, I see no reason to ever return.
> For different reasons, they are starting to resemble Dean imo.
> I.e a fair few guitars that look nice in pictures (cereal box guitars), but are built and play in the most shocking manner.
> ...



I dunno. my iron label is pretty good I think? But I paid 650 for it. and I have a very very low standard for guitars under 1k.


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## Supernaut (Sep 10, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is it possible that the bridge is offset? Or is it absolutely the fault of the neck/neck pocket?




It looks to be the neck pocket just judging by the angle of the pickup route in the 2nd picture.


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## exo (Sep 10, 2017)

It's honestly just appalling that this ever even left the factory. "Prestige"....even the lower level models in the line......are supposed to be the top tier for Ibanez. Their absolute BEST.

This is the type of guitar that I'm thinking Paul Reed Smith would PERSONALLY saw right in half, if it was produced in Maryland......


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## purpledc (Sep 10, 2017)

farren said:


> Damn, man, you and I have some communication issues... That's what I just described, except I muddled my story a bit when I said "threaded neck holes" when I meant to say "threaded body holes" (of course the neck holes were threaded ). I'll be more thorough.



Sorry man. I thought you were describing paint in the neck cavity causing the holes between the body and neck to not align.


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## MikeNeal (Sep 10, 2017)

i have a new found beef with ibanez. they were always my go to brand. I had a prestige s series from the early 2000's that was fantastic. maybe the best guitar i've ever owned. I also had a a mid 2000's rgt42. also a really solid guitar. the recent line up of guitars had got me interested in possibly buying a new one. the local long and mcquade to me had these 3 models in different price ranges.

http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_d...2&cat_id=1&series_id=1&data_id=185&color=CL01

http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/eg...&cat_id=1&series_id=28&data_id=267&color=CL01

http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_d...&cat_id=1&series_id=10&data_id=296&color=CL01

the highend premium had the wenge fretboard, and the tool marks in the fretboard were horrible. maybe the worst i have ever seen. after a quick play i noticed really sharp pieces of wenge on the board. someone will get a nice infected sliver from that thing. cost was around 1700

the cheaper premium with the ziricote top, had horrible glue lines for the thin ziricote cap on the headstock, could fit a thin guitar pick between wenge and ziricote. also the satin finish was buffed gloss in numerous spots. cost was around 1100

the standard rga was actually really solid, only problem it had was a very very very shitty maple top, had very little figuring. but it was around 500 bucks if i remember right, so i guess thats ok, since the rest of the guitar exceeded the premiums.

really bummed about the quality i saw. the jacksons that were there in a similar price range looked much better.


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## farren (Sep 10, 2017)

Edika said:


> I think I remember a thread, which I'm not sure if it was yours, asking about the neck pockets and showing photos from a store of one of the white finished RG652, asking about tge neck pocket.
> 
> Damn this looks bad and at some point I was considering one of these. Not anymore unless I try one in person.



Not me, but it's remarkable that neck pockets are getting screwed up at that rate. It's a really difficult proposition for any worker to have to line up a neck without the benefit of a tight pocket ensuring the neck mounts more or less exactly where it should. If I absolutely had to and couldn't shim it or something, I would string it E and E and eyeball it, hoping the wiggle room was enough to zero it in later. I would then NEVER remove the neck heh...



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is it possible that the bridge is offset? Or is it absolutely the fault of the neck/neck pocket?



I'm afraid not. That was one of the first things I checked and unfortunately the notch on the treble side of the trem is exactly against the stud as it should be. A trem should only find itself hung off-center if the blade is resting too high on the stud IMO (usually due to stud damage from changing the action under high tension). And one good thing I can say of this guitar versus the last--the studs didn't come torn up with jagged metal coming off them due to someone adjusting the action under tension.  The neck pickup cavity indeed tells the story.

If I'd managed to get some good pocket shots, you'd also see the neck is only close to resting against the pocket side on the outer corner of the treble side. That tells you which way the neck is slanting. Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, at NO POINT does the neck actually contact the pocket sides. That tells you it's possible to slant the neck at an even greater angle should you desire to exploit what little wiggle room there is.  Quite a feat of modern machining.



purpledc said:


> Sorry man. I thought you were describing paint in the neck cavity causing the holes between the body and neck to not align.



No worries. There are a couple examples in this thread of where my being more concise would have saved some confusion.


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## cubix (Sep 10, 2017)

the bridge and the neck pocket holes are machined in 1 pass usually. The pocket is NOT sanded!!! If it is it's just a slight pass. This problem is almost always a sloppy neck sanding (taking off too much) and neck shifting during assembly/transport. This is a much bigger problem than you might think. I've seen only a handful of guitars with properly done pockets. And that's not depending on price. I've seen 3 Fender USA basses in a row with a similiar shifted necks towards the trebble side, and most Fenders in fact have a ridiculous gap in the neck pocket. Warmoth does a far better job at matching necks to bodies than most famous guitar companies... This neck pocket thing is a plague these days.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 10, 2017)

MikeNeal said:


> i have a new found beef with ibanez. they were always my go to brand. I had a prestige s series from the early 2000's that was fantastic. maybe the best guitar i've ever owned. I also had a a mid 2000's rgt42. also a really solid guitar. the recent line up of guitars had got me interested in possibly buying a new one. the local long and mcquade to me had these 3 models in different price ranges.
> 
> http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_d...2&cat_id=1&series_id=1&data_id=185&color=CL01
> 
> ...



I played an RGA42-FM at my closest L&M and thought it was built quite well, unlike most other standard Ibanez guitars I've played coming from Indo (excluding Premiums--most of which I thought were quite good). The top wasn't fantastic but it was decent, and nothing to complain about for a guitar in that price range. 

I haven't played any of the newest premiums yet though.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 10, 2017)

There seems to be issues with all the ash bodied Prestige's having neck pockets cut to big, every RG752AHM I have wanted to get has had the same issue. In your case the neck was just bolted down on an angle, you could just loosen and realign and it would be ok, but the neck pocket gap is still a big issue.

Its pretty piss poor on Sweetwater's part, just goes to show how much BS all these 50 point "inspected by noob inspections" are.



cubix said:


> the bridge and the neck pocket holes are machined in 1 pass usually. The pocket is NOT sanded!!! If it is it's just a slight pass. This problem is almost always a sloppy neck sanding (taking off too much) and neck shifting during assembly/transport. This is a much bigger problem than you might think. I've seen only a handful of guitars with properly done pockets. And that's not depending on price. I've seen 3 Fender USA basses in a row with a similiar shifted necks towards the trebble side, and most Fenders in fact have a ridiculous gap in the neck pocket. Warmoth does a far better job at matching necks to bodies than most famous guitar companies... This neck pocket thing is a plague these days.



Some I have seen been wonky as F**k, I even posted a thread about dodgy neck pockets a month or so ago, its like the router has moved on initial CNC, or there is much more tear out on the ash bodies compared to basswood/mahogany. It's definitely not a neck issue, neck sanding might equate to 0.1mm of total thickness each side. Its to common for it to be just from sanding, everyone doing the sanding would have to be taking to much off, only on the ash bodied prestiges. My 657 pocket is fine, all other mahogany and basswood prestige's I have seen this year have been fine also, it's only 652's and 752's AHM's from what I can tell.


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## cubix (Sep 10, 2017)

Oh trust me it's much more than 0.1mm. They sand the fret edges down after putting the frets it by putting the whole side of the neck to a sander. This takes off metal fret ends slow bu once it touches the wood it takes a milisecond to sand too much. PLUS they have to sand it a bit undersize to acount for the laquer (all necks are laquered, satin or no satin) with polyurethane. It's definately not machine fault, but a human error.


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## farren (Sep 10, 2017)

Maybe I can settle this by finding my digital calipers to see just how wide the neck is at a certain fret--then others with a comparable guitar can check the same dimension on theirs. I strongly suspect it is just a giant pocket, the kind belonging to a mother who has had far too many joeys (isn't this a cuter reference than the human equivalent?).

If the router is having tear-out issues cutting ash, you would think after producing this very popular model for around two years now that the factory would understand that they need to decrease the RPMs, sharpen bits more often, or route conservatively with the intention of opening up the pocket a little by manual means when necessary. Then again, I am beyond assuming practical behavior of FujiGen. They're probably coasting with such complacency that the prospect of slowing down the routine just slightly to accommodate decreased RPMs or a harder wood seems unthinkable--when do you think the RG body script was last edited? 

I think it's possible the neck holes would need redrilling to properly align the neck. A plate will allow for more tweaking than grommets in my experience. I could be wrong, but IMO no one should accept so loose a pocket on what is billed as a decent guitar.

Edit: 58.24mm dead center of the fret wire at the 24th fret. That's a quarter millimeter off from the nominal width. My caliper tines are like this: | | as opposed to tweezer-like \ /, so I can only measure the widest point, which appears to be the important part: everything below the binding.


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## purpledc (Sep 11, 2017)

I want to know why the neck isn't sitting flush. Gaps on the side? Sure that's a big fucking neck pocket. IMHO you shouldn't have a neck pocket so fucking wide that you could even get the neck to lean that hard. But for it to sit out from the body so you can get stacked paper in and around all if the neck heel? That's fucked up. That's why I thought about the screws. As for sanding being the reason I don't know why they would sand the shit out of the part of the neck that sits flush to the body.


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## Supernaut (Sep 11, 2017)

You also don't want the pocket excessively tight due to humidity changes however, there is a happy medium. I'd say up to 2 sheets of paper. Too tight and you'll get stress cracks often.


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## farren (Sep 11, 2017)

purpledc said:


> I want to know why the neck isn't sitting flush. Gaps on the side? Sure that's a big fucking neck pocket. IMHO you shouldn't have a neck pocket so fucking wide that you could even get the neck to lean that hard. But for it to sit out from the body so you can get stacked paper in and around all if the neck heel? That's fucked up. That's why I thought about the screws. As for sanding being the reason I don't know why they would sand the shit out of the part of the neck that sits flush to the body.



When I talked about it not contacting the bottom before, I was talking about it not contacting (or barely contacting on one side) the part of the pocket that partially separates the pocket from the neck pickup route on AANJ guitars. Little 'wings' on each side that keep the neck from sliding down into the pickup cavity. Difficult to explain, but you should be able to deduce what I mean if you keep in mind it does sit perfectly flat on the mating surface of the pocket.


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## farren (Sep 11, 2017)

I just talked with Steven Chamoun. Nice guy, very helpful which is exactly what I'd expect from Sweetwater. He's as floored by this thing as we seem to be. Needless to say the guitar will be going back shortly, and he's going to work with me on another guitar if I see anything. It's like Mom aborted Christmas when you were expecting a new guitar and _this_ happens, so I'm going to give it some thought. But not Ibanez, needless to say.


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## lewis (Sep 11, 2017)

Ive just bought a new Ibanez.
It has "prestige" carved into the back of headstock from a soldering iron.

Sweetwater had a great deal on. Their 50 point inspection has assured me.

She looks amazing -


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 11, 2017)

it's all part of a master plan to sunset prestige.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 11, 2017)

The neck is coming off of my 657 tonight so if you want me to measure the pocket gap and neck heel width let me know.

Guarantee you it's the neck pocket itself that's bigger.


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## purpledc (Sep 11, 2017)

farren said:


> I just talked with Steven Chamoun. Nice guy, very helpful which is exactly what I'd expect from Sweetwater. He's as floored by this thing as we seem to be. Needless to say the guitar will be going back shortly, and he's going to work with me on another guitar if I see anything. It's like Mom aborted Christmas when you were expecting a new guitar and _this_ happens, so I'm going to give it some thought. But not Ibanez, needless to say.



Well at least you aren't paying anything in shipping back and forth. Still I feel your pain man. I had a similar situation a couple years ago with some LTD elites that kept coming in jacked up. I don't know if SW just has a very laxed inspection process and had to lower their standards due to product availability or if the techs who inspect drink their lunch. I'm just glad they either give me money off if I want to keep it or keep sending guitars until I'm happy. I know a lot of dealers have service too. But many dealers throw a guilt trip when you have an issue and try to flip it back on you. They really either care or are very good actors.


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## cubix (Sep 11, 2017)

Wait, how exactly will you know if the pocket is too big and no the neck is too narrow?? I don't get it. And as far as used up milling tool goes, and the ripping - it would either tear out chunks of wood or burn it , not simply make the pocket 0.5mm even on both sides bigger... lol


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## farren (Sep 11, 2017)

purpledc said:


> Well at least you aren't paying anything in shipping back and forth. Still I feel your pain man. I had a similar situation a couple years ago with some LTD elites that kept coming in jacked up. I don't know if SW just has a very laxed inspection process and had to lower their standards due to product availability or if the techs who inspect drink their lunch. I'm just glad they either give me money off if I want to keep it or keep sending guitars until I'm happy. I know a lot of dealers have service too. But many dealers throw a guilt trip when you have an issue and try to flip it back on you. They really either care or are very good actors.



The best at that job both care and are good actors--they really want people to be happy (for a number of reasons, not solely altruistic ones), but they have to be good actors to play along when they know in their hearts that this kid who wants a brand new replacement guitar is just a dumbass who doesn't understand that every string goes out of tune when bringing a floating tremolo up from no tension, or that straight frets are always going to lead to some notes being out of tune, or that the noise he's getting is due to the fact that he lives next door to a radio transmitter, or... I don't know what kind of customer Steven thinks I am, but he's quite convincing and things seem to be proceeding to a happy resolution, so everyone wins.

I saw something on reddit by someone who worked at Hoshino USA in the past (distribution and final QC for Ibanez if anyone doesn't know). He said they dreaded shipping to Sweetwater because they would always send instruments back for defects Hoshino considered no big deal, so they would try to send SW really unobjectionable stuff. At one point, Hoshino dispatched a team to SW to have a discussion with them about what they should consider acceptable if they were going to continue having a good dealer relationship. I'm afraid I may be dealing with the aftermath of that discussion.

As for that other kind of dealer, I've had that experience with two smaller but popular online dealers (both of which also have brick and mortar), one which remains the sweetheart of many Schecter players. It's not fun. Both made me go directly to warranty service immediately--they would not exchange with me and in the case of the Schecter, I even had to pay the shipping to send it to Schecter in California (who were really cool about replacing it). Day 0 warranty service sucks, though. People shouldn't be made to deal with it IMO.



eightsixboy said:


> The neck is coming off of my 657 tonight so if you want me to measure the pocket gap and neck heel width let me know.
> 
> Guarantee you it's the neck pocket itself that's bigger.



I think it's simpler to rule out a thin neck. You have a nice reference point in the 24th fret and we have well-known nominal specs: should be about 58 mm at that point. I agree with you, though: I'm sure it's the neck pocket as well.



cubix said:


> Wait, how exactly will you know if the pocket is too big and no the neck is too narrow?? I don't get it. And as far as used up milling tool goes, and the ripping - it would either tear out chunks of wood or burn it , not simply make the pocket 0.5mm even on both sides bigger... lol



See above. We have nominal specs for the neck width and mine more or less conforms. Tearout could be cleaned up afterward, but that would be a pain in the ass and would likely have been corrected by now, but apparently the ash bodies have had this issue for a while, so... Wouldn't it be amusing if their ash RG body script was just misprogrammed all this time and they scale the thing up horizontally a sixteenth of an inch or so resulting in oversized pockets?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 11, 2017)

farren said:


> As for that other kind of dealer, I've had that experience with two smaller but popular online dealers (both of which also have brick and mortar), one which remains the sweetheart of many Schecter players. It's not fun. Both made me go directly to warranty service immediately--they would not exchange with me and in the case of the Schecter, I even had to pay the shipping to send it to Schecter in California (who were really cool about replacing it). Day 0 warranty service sucks, though. People shouldn't be made to deal with it IMO.


I think I may know one of the two you are hinting at.


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## farren (Sep 11, 2017)

I could be more specific, but I figured the Schecter reference would (colora)do. The dude in charge was a straight-up dick on the phone. I guess it could have been worse, though. Rather than "there was no problem when it left us! You caused the problem!" he basically said, "nope, no problem. There's no problem here. Go to Schecter if you think something is wrong with it. We just set up the guitar and it's great." But Schecter took care of me.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

farren said:


> I could be more specific, but I figured the Schecter reference would (colora)do. The dude in charge was a straight-up dick on the phone. I guess it could have been worse, though. Rather than "there was no problem when it left us! You caused the problem!" he basically said, "nope, no problem. There's no problem here. Go to Schecter if you think something is wrong with it. We just set up the guitar and it's great." But Schecter took care of me.


I was referring to the other one you're possibly referring to.


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## farren (Sep 12, 2017)

Haha really? I didn't think I dropped any hints as to its identity.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

farren said:


> Haha really? I didn't think I dropped any hints as to its identity.


Messaged to see if I'm correct in who the other dealer was.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 12, 2017)

It's me, guys. I'm ashamed.


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## farren (Sep 12, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> It's me, guys. I'm ashamed.



Indeed. Spaced Out Ace guessed correctly.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

I would discuss more about what happened that made me think it was whom I mentioned to @farren, but I won't. Why? Because I said I would stop talking about it if I got the item, even if I didn't get the extra stuff I was supposed to get to make up for it and as a sort of "sorry" gesture.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 12, 2017)

Me sorry guys.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> Me sorry guys.




It wasn't you.


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## Sogradde (Sep 12, 2017)

Inspired by this thread, I went to my local guitar store and checked out some Ibbies. They had no ash body ones but all the ones I played were pretty solid and none had any neck alignment or pocket issues. I'm kinda happy about that outcome as it suggests that problem is limited to ash body guitars.


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## cubix (Sep 12, 2017)

What does the body wood have to do with it if the guitar for example has a maple top and still there is a gap? I guarantee that if you take a piece of paper, sometimes folded over a few times, you'll be able to shove it between most necks and bodies at a store, even at the bottom where it's screwed down (and don't tell me that contact area doesn't matter).


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 12, 2017)

cubix said:


> What does the body wood have to do with it if the guitar for example has a maple top and still there is a gap? I guarantee that if you take a piece of paper, sometimes folded over a few times, you'll be able to shove it between most necks and bodies at a store, even at the bottom where it's screwed down (and don't tell me that contact area doesn't matter).



obviously the guy in charge of swamp ash was drunk.


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## Sogradde (Sep 12, 2017)

cubix said:


> What does the body wood have to do with it if the guitar for example has a maple top and still there is a gap? I guarantee that if you take a piece of paper, sometimes folded over a few times, you'll be able to shove it between most necks and bodies at a store, even at the bottom where it's screwed down (and don't tell me that contact area doesn't matter).


I cannot get an unfolded piece of paper between the neck and body of my prestige. I couldn't get my fingernail between neck and body of the higher tier Ibbies I played at the store.

Unless someone posts pictures of badly fitting basswood or mahogany bodies, I will say this is an issue with ash bodies.


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 12, 2017)

Just remembered I actually own an ash bodied ibanez. I remember the neck pocket on this being fine. It's been at my inlaws for 5 months. Actually it's a fine guitar other the. The completely silly veneer too. 





Most of the iron labels I've played have been pretty decent. Like 700 worth of good.


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## ZombieLloyd (Sep 12, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> Just remembered I actually own an ash bodied ibanez. I remember the neck pocket on this being fine. It's been at my inlaws for 5 months. Actually it's a fine guitar other the. The completely silly veneer too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man, I'd get that blue/green one if it didn't have that stupid Kiesel-esque bezel, or whatever it's called.


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## Sephiroth952 (Sep 12, 2017)

How is it that the indo factories are having no trouble with the ash bodies, but FGN who has been making guitars forever is.


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## farren (Sep 12, 2017)

cubix said:


> What does the body wood have to do with it if the guitar for example has a maple top and still there is a gap? I guarantee that if you take a piece of paper, sometimes folded over a few times, you'll be able to shove it between most necks and bodies at a store, even at the bottom where it's screwed down (and don't tell me that contact area doesn't matter).



Well, the guitar in question has no top. My other 4 Prestiges from the past 14 months have not had nearly that much clearance on the sides (one had a tiny bit of clearance on one side of the opening which quickly closed up as the pocket approached the bridge (I think a little bit of wenge splintered off), and the others were practically airtight) and no clearance at all on the bottom. In fact, this latest one had no clearance on the bottom. Yes, no room for a single leaf of copy paper.

This is a case of an abnormally large neck pocket. It might be normal for ash Prestiges, but it is not normal of a quality instrument. I have no reason to think the neck was over-sanded when it measures what is probably within the margin of error of the nominal specs (within a quarter mm).



diagrammatiks said:


> obviously the guy in charge of swamp ash was drunk.



Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's white ash in this case (or some other non-swampy pedestrian ash). In any case they're the same on the Janka hardness scale.


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## farren (Sep 17, 2017)

Just for fun I checked to see if the neck on the RG652AHM has been realigned and re-listed at Sweetwater. It has not been. I then checked the RG652MPB to see if it had been re-listed as a blem/B stock. It had not been.

Instead, it was re-listed as brand new.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RG652MPBGFB/sn210001F1715353

Check out the treble side of the neck pickup route. That is not figuring--it's a tangible valley of missing wood. I had no idea Sweetwater re-listed returns as new a la Guitar Center. This is disappointing. I essentially did their QC for them in showing them the splinter missing from the top (a structural issue), as well as other cosmetic issues, and evidently their QC went back over the guitar, determined it was flawless, and listed it as brand new at full price.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 17, 2017)

farren said:


> Well, the guitar in question has no top. My other 4 Prestiges from the past 14 months have not had nearly that much clearance on the sides (one had a tiny bit of clearance on one side of the opening which quickly closed up as the pocket approached the bridge (I think a little bit of wenge splintered off), and the others were practically airtight) and no clearance at all on the bottom. In fact, this latest one had no clearance on the bottom. Yes, no room for a single leaf of copy paper.
> 
> This is a case of an abnormally large neck pocket. It might be normal for ash Prestiges, but it is not normal of a quality instrument. I have no reason to think the neck was over-sanded when it measures what is probably within the margin of error of the nominal specs (within a quarter mm).



Exactly, the guitars is question are the 652 and 752 ash bodies, all the indo ones have been fine. I don't think there is any current models that are ash body with a vaneer in the prestige line-up.

Ibanez's tolerance is 0.5mm per side, which is very small, I tested the gaps on a few of my current Ibanez prestige's and they around 0.7-.08mm and those gaps look "normal" and not noticeable. I know the ones I have seen on some 752's have been way over that, I'd guess 1.5mm or so. The op's one honestly didn't look that bad in the pics but if that neck was adjusted straight the pocket gap on the bass side would be massive we well.


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## farren (Sep 17, 2017)

eightsixboy said:


> The only guitars I have seen it on are the 652's and 752's with ash bodies, all the indo ones have been fine. I don't think there is any current models that are ash body with a vaneer in the prestige line-up.
> 
> Ibanez's tolerance is 0.5mm per side, which is very small, I tested the gaps on a few of my current Ibanez prestige's and they around 0.7-.08mm and those gaps look "normal" and not noticeable. I know the ones I have seen on some 752's have been way over that, I'd guess 1.5mm or so. The op's one honestly didn't look that bad in the pics but if that neck was adjusted straight the pocket gap on the bass side would be massive we well.



The OP would have been fine correcting a very small misalignment, but felt it would be ridiculous to keep a guitar with a pocket that massive on principle. FFS they told him that guitar was a virgin!


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## eightsixboy (Sep 17, 2017)

farren said:


> The OP would have been fine correcting a very small misalignment, but felt it would be ridiculous to keep a guitar with a pocket that massive on principle. FFS they told him that guitar was a virgin!



And these kind's of things are going to happen more and more unfortunately with the way Ibanez have been going. Happened to me twice this year. I pretty much don't buy anything I have inspected now, its just to risky expecting someone else to actually give a crap and inspect a guitar correctly before they send it out, whether it be a distributor or a store.

The fact that they posted the poplar guitar for sale as brand new again is a sign of how most of these stores work now, exact same thing happened to me with this 752. Besides the scratches they put in it doing their bs "genius" setup you can even see the neck is still out of alignment cause of the dodgy neck pocket cut but its listed as brand new, more then what I paid for it too, makes me sick. 

http://www.portmacguitars.com.au/ibanez-rg752fx-prestige-7-string.html


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## farren (Sep 17, 2017)

Ugh, the misalignment is clear there... I hope whoever ends up with the 752 knows what they're looking at before they order.

Next time I talk to my SW guy I'm going to tell him about the listed MPB as I didn't expect that sort of behavior from them. I think it was just a mistake because initially they issued a partial refund (less the cost of free shipping), as though I'd returned the guitar for a silly reason like 'waaah I didn't like the pickups,' when in fact it was a fault return. Even then, I'm afraid there have been a number of mistakes. I'm still waiting on my happy ending which should be here sometime this week.


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## farren (Sep 18, 2017)

**LONG POST, but important if you are considering either of these models, or want a deal on one in particular**

Well, both of the RGs I've returned have now been cleared and re-listed by Sweetwater at full price as "New". I emailed my SW guy at noon about the MPB, but he hasn't yet responded. It's possible action will be taken on it tomorrow. The AHM I haven't mentioned yet as I just saw it re-appear. I hope the "New" guitar they shipped to me today is actually, you know, New, and not a customer reject like these two...

Here is the *RG652MPB* with a splinter missing from the face of the guitar (below neck pickup route), S/N: F1715353

This guitar is great if you're okay with the missing splinter and paint, and are okay with a guitar that has not been cleared over, making it 100% unbuffable and vulnerable to damage much worse than your everyday innocuous poly dent. You're going to lose paint and the burl veneer is going to flake off over time. This particular instance has quite buttery fret crowns.  Perhaps two of the frets aren't perfect yet, but will be smooth in no time after a couple dozen bends. The sides of the frets remain tool-marked. They can certainly be taken care of if that bothers you, but they do not affect playability or comfort. The fret ends are perfectly safe. Nearly every production guitar benefits from a level, but 1 mm action is doable here as-is with only minimal buzz--not the kind of buzz that affects sustain much at all.

If I toured I would buy this guitar in a fucking heartbeat and just not give a shit about it. It's a player's guitar. It hurt to send it back and I miss it, but I couldn't justify buying something new I was already considering refinishing. How I miss the days of nice guitars with plain color glossy poly finishes...

And here is the star of this thread, the *RG652AHM* with a gigantic neck pocket, S/N: F1715492

This guitar is okay if you're okay with a gigantic pocket and unfinished fret ends. The body is one of the nicer cuts of ash I've seen of this particular model. The frets haven't been polished and are tool-marked to hell, crowns included--it'll need more polishing than the other guitar did, probably starting as low as 320 grit. The frets were dull enough that I can't comment on the profiling. The fret ends (specifically the undersides) are uncomfortable. They may not cut you, but thanks to the give in the binding or the conservative rounding of the undersides in order to protect the fingerboard which is finished prior to fret installation, you will feel them catch you a little as you rapidly change position. I did not play it at all for reasons obvious to you if you read the first post in this thread, much less go through the trouble of setting it up, so I can't say if the neck is true. This guitar is a steal at $600. Too bad you won't get it below $1200.

The showcase photos are NOT retaken upon return: all pictures are taken when the guitar is received (that's when it passes the '55-Point Evaluation'). Look at the AHM and you'll see the neck looked lined up pretty much correctly when the guitar arrived at Sweetwater. Seems it suffered a hit before it got to me, presumably in transit. My humble opinion is that sort of shift should not even be allowed by the pocket. For what it's worth, the neck bolts were very tight when it arrived in misaligned position--a bad sign for stability I would say.

I'm giving all this info in case someone is researching either of these models and stumbles upon my thread--they can check the S/Ns to make sure they avoid these two if they like.

The other case is if someone wants my old RG652MPB. The neck on it is wonderful--very stable and straight, no flaws in the satin finish, and the nut action is nearly perfect if you remove the shim, so no nut shelf sanding would be required for most players (only a little high on the bass side, but I like it so low that heavy picking results in open string buzz). Call Sweetwater up and tell them you're looking at this guitar but have noticed a splinter of wood missing. They'll probably pull the guitar to confirm, then offer you a discount. The alternative is ordering the guitar first and calling them about the defect after you receive it, in which case you'll probably get a discount.

I'm pretty disappointed to see both of these guitars listed as new. While I think I'm going to be happy come Wednesday evening, seeing these re-listed has made what I think will be a lasting impression on me. I nearly ordered a $2k+ guitar from Guitar Center once--I tracked down the exact serial number for sale on the site to the specific store where it had been hanging on the wall for the better part of a year. It was positively played to hell--a demo model at best. These situations may well be worlds apart, but in my opinion, if you're operating within the galaxy of Guitar Center, you're probably doing something wrong and need to rethink the ethics of your business practices...


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## farren (Sep 19, 2017)

Heard back from my sales guy just now about something more recent, but not about my email from yesterday about the MPB being re-listed as "New". Seems that is standard operating procedure.


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 19, 2017)

farren said:


> Heard back from my sales guy just now about something more recent, but not about my email from yesterday about the MPB being re-listed as "New". Seems that is standard operating procedure.



there's no way those guitars should be listed as new and not b-stock. The one with the splinter missing is probably fine but shouldn't got for new price.


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## farren (Sep 20, 2017)

Both guitars are still listed as new. Yesterday shortly after my post my sales guy said he thought it was a system mistake and would get it sorted out. Guess I'll keep watching but I'm kind of tired at this point and could really use a break to, you know, actually play.

*Happy Conclusion*

I just received guitar #3. I went with a black JL-6 FR. Got a deal on a PLEK Pro job for it and all in all I'll have spent far less than on either RG. I haven't set it up yet or even plugged it in (came with a broken high E), but it's in good shape save for filed binding, and some missing finish right on the edges of the pickup routes which will look fine with a little Sharpie. The guitar appears to have great potential. Only annoying thing is the treble side of the nut shelf is really high (no shims)--as it stands low E and high E are both around .020" at the 1st. Easiest to sand the shelf at the same angle and just shim the bass side a little when I'm done. No big deal. Beyond that, I'll get a big brass block, ClipLocks, I might switch the vol and 3-way, and eventually I'll steel wool the glossy black at the heel so it's satiny. It will end up with DiMarzios most likely--just have to decide if my usual zebra cream would look cool despite the maple, or if it needs *RED AND BLACK*... I've always wanted that combination...

I'd post photos but who needs to see a black guitar.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 20, 2017)

Man this whole thing is just sad, I feel bad for you, glad third time lucky.

The pickup cavities on the JL models in common, the filled binding its really an issue I guess unless its not on the neck section?

I think the common theme in this thread and what I have been observing in the last 3+ years in most makes are getting sloppier in their QC now. I just got a RG1670 which is from 2010 for example, and the guitar is 100% faultless, comparing it to the last ew Ibanez Prestige I have had this year is like chalk/cheese comparison.

I know you just got the JL-6 FR but if you return it you should look at the sun valley shredder. I was super impressed by one I played a little while ago, was better then any prestige fretwork and overall QC I have seen for ages and it was way cheaper then any current prestige as well.


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## farren (Sep 20, 2017)

The binding on my Hellraiser wasn't perfect either. This is a bit worse, probably from the PLEK tech dressing the ends (he did a good job of it, just a little collateral damage because he probably has a quota and couldn't spend more time on it--his employer's fault). I'm really okay with it though--with my technique I'll never actually feel it, and if I ever get the urge to I might simulate a rolled edge by sanding the binding a little with very fine paper (I'd only do that if I was refinishing the neck someday in the very distant future). I'm not a fan of binding, probably biased against it because it's a bitch to work with, so I sympathize with the tech.

I got a killer deal on the JL-6 and it would be a shame to send back a PLEK'd guitar. Only way I send this back is if when I'm setting it up tomorrow I find the truss rod is broken or something.  This guitar has no weak or harmonically dynamic notes, at least at E standard 10-46. No faster decaying notes on the problem area of the G unlike a lot of shred guitars.

Just occurred to me I bet this guitar has the same 10" nut that Schecter's usual compound radius guitars have, plus the Floyd is not shimmed. I ordered a 14" 41mm Gotoh to replace the nut which is the fit possible for a 16" 41mm guitar.

That's an attractive price on the Sun Valleys. I'm still kicking myself for deciding I was going to go with Schecter a month ago and then going on another frustrating Prestige voyage instead. I could be unlucky, and I no doubt am to a large degree, but there are a lot of other unlucky people out there as well it seems, you included.


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## NikolajBak (Sep 21, 2017)

I'm going to chime in, since I just recently bought a Rg652mpbfx (with the black tint) and posted the ngd on this site. My guitar is, unlike yours, nearly flawless. No tool marks, no bad paint job. It has some sharpness to the fret edges, but nothing serious. Low action and nice figuring both in the maple fretboard and the poplar top. I was very happy with the guitar until recently. 
I've played it at home and at band practice a few times when I started noticing, that the paint on the top has been wearing off just below the neck pickup (must be were my pick strikes the body). It's only a little, but the guitar is only a month old, and I usually take good care of my guitars.
This confirms that the tops on these guitars are very fragile. I'm currently working out a solution with Thomann, since I'm concerned, that it will get worse over time. 

It's too bad that Ibanez has stepped down their game. I have a s5570-tks from 2015 which is absolutely perfect. 
It's good that you found an alternative. ;-)


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## farren (Sep 21, 2017)

Thanks! This will be a great guitar once I fix the ridiculous radius mismatch. I feel bad for kids who get this guitar and wonder how the hell Jeff Loomis shreds on it--his tech can switch out the 10" nut and shim the 10" trem...

I do get the impression I should have been in the market for an Ibanez a few years ago instead of the past two years.  The flat finishes are just not thought out at all... I will be surprised if many dealers don't stop stocking them at some point because of the return rate.


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## bostjan (Sep 21, 2017)

Glad to see some light at the end of this abominable tunnel of sadness. #itssomething


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## possumkiller (Sep 21, 2017)

farren said:


> I could be more specific, but I figured the Schecter reference would (colora)do. The dude in charge was a straight-up dick on the phone. I guess it could have been worse, though. Rather than "there was no problem when it left us! You caused the problem!" he basically said, "nope, no problem. There's no problem here. Go to Schecter if you think something is wrong with it. We just set up the guitar and it's great." But Schecter took care of me.



I know my cousin got shafted by Jason at DCGL in Denver. He ordered a Kevin Bond RR to be sent to him in Egypt. He wanted the Duncan swapped with an EMG 81. He was charged for the pickup plus labor and Jason kept the original pickup. My cousin got it and found the headstock was warped. Jason told him tough shit.

Unless you're a local or an artist I wouldn't bother with those guys. 


Also the RGAIX7FM I recently bought and immediately returned to GC had the same neck pocket problem. Along with an unattached nut and some other troubling cosmetic issues. When I returned it to the local store and showed them the problems they said it was no big deal and it was an amazing guitar.


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## eightsixboy (Sep 21, 2017)

farren said:


> The binding on my Hellraiser wasn't perfect either. This is a bit worse, probably from the PLEK tech dressing the ends (he did a good job of it, just a little collateral damage because he probably has a quota and couldn't spend more time on it--his employer's fault). I'm really okay with it though--with my technique I'll never actually feel it, and if I ever get the urge to I might simulate a rolled edge by sanding the binding a little with very fine paper (I'd only do that if I was refinishing the neck someday in the very distant future). I'm not a fan of binding, probably biased against it because it's a bitch to work with, so I sympathize with the tech.
> 
> I got a killer deal on the JL-6 and it would be a shame to send back a PLEK'd guitar. Only way I send this back is if when I'm setting it up tomorrow I find the truss rod is broken or something.  This guitar has no weak or harmonically dynamic notes, at least at E standard 10-46. No faster decaying notes on the problem area of the G unlike a lot of shred guitars.
> 
> ...



Its good that its on the neck, in that with playing it or just hitting it with some 1500 or 2000 paper it wont be noticeable after awhile. My RG752 limba top had some annoying marks in the binding, I just hit it with some 2000 and it was perfect after that, probably one of the better points of binding.

I'm tempted by the sun valley but I just don't need another six 



NikolajBak said:


> I'm going to chime in, since I just recently bought a Rg652mpbfx (with the black tint) and posted the ngd on this site. My guitar is, unlike yours, nearly flawless. No tool marks, no bad paint job. It has some sharpness to the fret edges, but nothing serious. Low action and nice figuring both in the maple fretboard and the poplar top. I was very happy with the guitar until recently.
> I've played it at home and at band practice a few times when I started noticing, that the paint on the top has been wearing off just below the neck pickup (must be were my pick strikes the body). It's only a little, but the guitar is only a month old, and I usually take good care of my guitars.
> This confirms that the tops on these guitars are very fragile. I'm currently working out a solution with Thomann, since I'm concerned, that it will get worse over time.
> 
> ...



I only had my 852 for a day and a piece flaked off from me resting my forearm playing it, I think one of the burl holes wasn't filled properly and as soon as even the smallest bit of pressure touched it the thing flaked, its pretty discouraging tbh. The stupid thing was I played it a few more times and another tiny section flaked of from me playing it with a jumper on, I just hit it with a blue marker pen and it looked factory finish lol.

I'll never ever buy a satin finish basswood guitar again after my experiences with the 852, three 721's and one 927 I have had in the past, the basswood is just too soft to withstand even the slightest of knocks, my 921 got a ding on the first day I had it and same with the 927, even with being super careful, it felt like owning an eggshell guitar.

Honestly I think I'm done buying new guitars, unless they do a heap of Wenge/ebony or some different woods on prestige's, its kind of just the same same every year now. I think I mentioned this already but I just got a RG1670 used from Japan for like 600 USD and the thing is perfect, best playing Ibanez I have had in a long time, they really seem to have hit their peak in the mid-late 2000's.


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## farren (Sep 21, 2017)

Don't give the flat finish guitars too much credit, eightsixboy--if they had a clear coat of satin on top, they wouldn't be so bad. I know the finishes technically do have satin poly in them (mixed with the paint), but I feel like calling them "satin" leads people to assume there's a proper clear coat over the top like, well, any other satin finish on a decent guitar... I ignorantly assumed that, anyway.

You're right that a soft wood underneath makes any finish weaker... Any dent is likely to dent deeper than with a hard wood, and the deeper the dent, the less the poly's natural plasticity will dent with it, leading to a chip instead. That's one of the benefits of poly over nitro, and having a soft wood underneath in connection with a very thin finish largely negates it. :/ And funny enough, repairing such a chip is one of the (precious few) benefits of nitro over poly.

The 852MPB should have a different name. One would assume it was Mahogany Poplar Burl like the 652MPB... RG852BPB, obviously. No one tell me the M stands for Maple, because the A in the AHM certainly stands for Ash and not mAple. 

I'm with you on buying new, I think. I'm not opposed to buying new necks or raw bodies, but all the new guitar/bass experiences I've had recently (and honestly, in the past as well, save my MIJ Jackson from the '90s) have been replete with issues. My worst was actually in the late '90s when Carvin was known as a good company. My DC-127 had the honor of having the most twisted, lumpy, back-bowed neck my highly experienced luthier had ever seen.

Can't wait for the new hardware to arrive so I can make this thing playable.  The strain from the misradius and high nut make me feel like an old man. This nut would be high even without the PLEK job--the frets are nearly as tall as on my Jescar 58118 guitar. Would love to see Loomis shred on one of these before he or his tech gets to work on it... Several years ago I read a story about Petrucci playing a fan's JP model and he quickly said "anyone got a wrench? This action is killing me". Must have been 1.2mm at the 12th.


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## couverdure (Sep 21, 2017)

All I just want is a new Prestige but the skepticism in this thread got me all let down. I really hope Ibanez learns from their mistakes and fixes them in the next year.


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## farren (Sep 21, 2017)

There's always the advice in your signature. 

Edit: I forgot to mention something strange about the returned guitars. When I chose my MPB, I picked one that was 8 lbs, 6 oz (I find heavier guitars generally have better sustain), the heaviest available which also had what I thought was the nicest figuring. When I chose the AHM, I also picked the heaviest available at 8 lbs.

Now that those guitars are _still_ listed for sale as new, the MPB is listed as 7 lbs, 11 oz, and the AHM as 7 lbs, 10 oz, as though they've each developed an eating disorder from having been rejected by me. Now I wish I'd weighed each of them myself.

In any case, if I order from Sweetwater again (I'm trying to quit new guitars), I won't be putting much credence in their weight claims. That is about a 2/3 pound difference on the MPB and I assure you I did not take off that much in polishing the frets... So they don't bother taking new photos when returning a guitar to "new" stock even though condition is subject to change when an instrument has been in the hands of a player less cautious than myself, yet they bother re-weighing the guitars and have a +/-11 ounce margin of error on a scale which measures in 1 ounce intervals? I've owned many scales--they do not work like that. These numbers cannot be explained away.


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## farren (Sep 26, 2017)

Well, it's Tuesday evening, a full 7 days since my sales guy told me he would try to fix the fact that the two returned defect guitars were re-listed as 'new' at full price. Both are still available as 'new' at full price. I'm going to assume that is standard operating procedure at Sweetwater as it is at 'lesser' stores. Disappointing. What's especially alarming is that, apparently, these guitars didn't even go through QC before being re-listed. I can see how one would slip through again, but _both_? Unlikely.

I still recommend Steven Chamoun, who did all he could within the system. He's not pushy like the guy before him who called me monthly for 4+ years, leaving lengthy voice mails each time, despite my never taking his calls once. Steven didn't even try to sell me a case.
*
About guitar #3 if anyone cares:*

The JL-6 is done, at least till I decide 100% I'm not going to be staying with these pickups. The JL Blackouts feel like actives to me. The only actives I've used which feel like passives are the 57-7/66-7, which give me the clarity of actives on the low B but with the feel of actives elsewhere. This particular guitar is begging for a Dominion bridge, maybe a Blaze neck. Oh, and the 3-way and vol switched to where they are supposed to be. 

Anyway, I put a Gotoh nut on it (41mm 14" radius) after an enormous amount of sanding on the nut shelf and shimmed the hell out of the 1500 Floyd (which I put a big block on) to bring it to about 17". The nut's not bolted down considering the holes at the factory were off-center. Provided the only 16" locking nut in existence, to my knowledge, is the Gotoh 43mm, the best I can possibly do to match a straight 16" neck is a 14-17" compound string radius. Close enough. I have a Gotoh 43mm lying around from my old decommissioned Jackson DR-3... Maybe some day I'll grind a mm off each side of it and put it on instead. Easier said than done since anyone who has had Gotoh nuts or a GE1996T can attest to the fact that Gotoh forges the heaviest, hardest steel around... Why isn't their hardware, tuners aside, stock on many guitars? :/ My GE1996T is better than my West German OFR.

The locking nut that comes on Schecters is actually shorter in height than a Floyd Rose/Gotoh nut by approaching half a millimeter (measured from bottom of nut to bottom of low E slot). This is common with cheap licensed nuts, yet you'd think with the 1500 Floyd being in all other ways identical to a German Floyd, aside from the finish and stainless bolts, that the nut, and thus the shelf, would be standard. It isn't, and that means anyone wishing to replace the locking nut with a more appropriate locking nut is going to have to do some serious sanding. 

I'm starting to love this guitar, but if I wasn't much of a tech and I picked this thing up at a music store with the outrageous radius mismatch, I would conclude it's just a poor playing instrument. Schecter sells this model short with the default configuration, all because their factory is set up for dealing with 10-16" compound radii. Maybe that's why I ended up in September 2017 with a new guitar with a W16 (2016) serial number from one of the highest turnover online retailers around.


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## farren (Oct 22, 2017)

Both returned guitars have now been resold at full price. 

Now the wait begins before they're returned to stock again and sold again and...


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## NikolajBak (Oct 25, 2017)

farren said:


> Both returned guitars have now been resold at full price.
> 
> Now the wait begins before they're returned to stock again and sold again and...


Until someone keeps the flawed guitar... That is just wrong.
In my case Thomann sent the guitar to Ibanez, they concluded suprise suprise, that the guitar was supposed to look splintered.
I mean, of course it has to look that way, look at the thing!
I tried to explain that the paint was wearing off were my pick hits the body, but either they could not see it (despite numerous pictures documenting the spot), or they simply did not care.
I don't think I'm being unresonable here, you would return a car as well if the paint wore off after a month.
In the end Thomann offered a 85% money back, or that I could keep the guitar (for a fee of course). So apparently I had to pay for the broken fragile finish.

In the end they shipped it back to me for free, after some complaining on my part. But it has been a very tiring process.

I know it's hard to blame someone in these cases, and actually I like Thomann very much, as they have provided great service before this.
All I can say is that IMO it should say something like "Very fragile finish" on the product page of these guitars.
And I would recommend anyone considering a "matte poplar burl" from Ibanez, to get one with tough lacquor in stead.


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## lewis (Oct 25, 2017)

NikolajBak said:


> Until someone keeps the flawed guitar... That is just wrong.
> In my case Thomann sent the guitar to Ibanez, they concluded suprise suprise, that the guitar was supposed to look splintered.
> I mean, of course it has to look that way, look at the thing!
> I tried to explain that the paint was wearing off were my pick hits the body, but either they could not see it (despite numerous pictures documenting the spot), or they simply did not care.
> ...



this is actually completely deplorable. Funny because I see threads and posts all the time pages long moaning about "smaller" companies when they are guilty of this kind of total BS, yet when massive companies like Ibanez are guilty of it, the fanboy'ism is so large, no one really bats an eyelid.

seems to me that the bigger a company gets, the more greedy, corrupt and *feet up on the desk whilst they count their millions* care free they become.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 25, 2017)




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## couverdure (Oct 25, 2017)

lewis said:


> this is actually completely deplorable. Funny because I see threads and posts all the time pages long moaning about "smaller" companies when they are guilty of this kind of total BS, yet when massive companies like Ibanez are guilty of it, the fanboy'ism is so large, no one really bats an eyelid.
> 
> seems to me that the bigger a company gets, the more greedy, corrupt and *feet up on the desk whilst they count their millions* care free they become.


Gibson gets shit on almost all the time nowadays, this has nothing to do with fanboyism. The big difference between the two companies is that Ibanez has always been consistent with the quality and pricing of their products as well as artist endorsements.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 25, 2017)

lewis said:


> this is actually completely deplorable. Funny because I see threads and posts all the time pages long moaning about "smaller" companies when they are guilty of this kind of total BS, yet when massive companies like Ibanez are guilty of it, the fanboy'ism is so large, no one really bats an eyelid.
> 
> seems to me that the bigger a company gets, the more greedy, corrupt and *feet up on the desk whilst they count their millions* care free they become.



I think you have to take volume into consideration. Ibanez makes a hell of a lot more guitars then a 'custom' builder...so you are kind of comparing apple to oranges. 1% of 1000 wrong is way more then 1% of 10,000 wrong.

Example would be my job, we have about .75%-1% error rate on 70 million items...when you look at the number it looks insanely high, but not when you look at it compared to the overall number you did right


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## lewis (Oct 25, 2017)

cwhitey2 said:


> I think you have to take volume into consideration. Ibanez makes a hell of a lot more guitars then a 'custom' builder...so you are kind of comparing apple to oranges. 1% of 1000 wrong is way more then 1% of 10,000 wrong.
> 
> Example would be my job, we have about .75%-1% error rate on 70 million items...when you look at the number it looks insanely high, but not when you look at it compared to the overall number you did right


yeah tbf i did overlook that. 

Still think with more money should come better qc that ever stops a single lemon, but yeah i understand your point.


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