# Some LTD 1000 Deluxe series guitars being made in Indonesia now?



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 29, 2018)

So I've been GASing for an LTD H3-1000 to replace one of my guitars. But I noticed something interesting...







It's Made in Indonesia. 

This is the first time I've ever seen a Deluxe series LTD made outside of Korea. 

So I decided to go back, and... yeah, I noticed several Deluxe series models are Indo-made now.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EC1000BLK--esp-ltd-ec-1000-black
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LEC1000FMTEF--esp-ltd-ec-1000fm-fluence-tiger-eye
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EC1000VB--esp-ltd-ec-1000-emg-vintage-black
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LEC1000EQDBS--esp-ltd-ec-1000-evertune-dark-brown-sunburst
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LMH1000ESTBK--esp-ltd-mh-1000fm-evertune-see-thru-black
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EC1000STBC--esp-ltd-ec-1000qm-see-thru-black-cherry

Looks like they're either looking to do some in Indonesia, or it looks like they're working on just bringing the entire Deluxe line to Indonesia. 

I know place of origin is a hot-button topic, but it's kinda sad to see this. Some of my favorite guitars are Korean-built LTDs. I've been a bit more hit-or-miss with Indonesian LTDs, so I hope they can work out the kinks if they're making the move.


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## Strobe (Apr 29, 2018)

Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer. The good news is you can get a clean used MIJ ESP one for not much more than these go new. It's too bad though. Korean made instruments have gotten quite excellent. Indonesia is not there yet. At least not consistently there. I believe they will get there, but it's going to take some time.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Apr 29, 2018)

Very interesting. The Fluence EC model has an Indo and a Korean build. It seems as though the industry is really pushing for (higher end) Indo guitars to be on par with where Korean models currently sit in the eyes of the guitar-buying public.

As long as the quality is the same (or better) then I personally don't care; but I think companies are going to have to really impress buyers with the higher end Indo stuff in order to convince guitar-buyers that they're on par with Korean stuff.


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## diagrammatiks (Apr 29, 2018)

lots of production is moving to Indonesia now it seems


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## Zado (Apr 29, 2018)

Maybe salaries are gettin higher at WMI, just speculation, no idea. In any case, two possibilities: sellin more expensive MIK gear, or switchin production to Indonesia.


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## Shask (Apr 29, 2018)

Yes, that is sad because MIK WMI guitars have been some of my favorites for years. MII guitars never feel as smooth to me.


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## possumkiller (Apr 29, 2018)

Well I guess that's me done with LTDs...


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## Smoked Porter (Apr 29, 2018)

Great, now even more people will be asking stupid prices for used MIK EC-1000s.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 29, 2018)

Shask said:


> Yes, that is sad because MIK WMI guitars have been some of my favorites for years. MII guitars never feel as smooth to me.





possumkiller said:


> Well I guess that's me done with LTDs...



It's really a bummer. I was kinda set on getting an LTD H3-1000 after I sell off a guitar and some stuff, but now that's a looot less likely.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2018)

South Korean guitar manufacturing is becoming what Japanese guitar manufacturing was in the 90's, and I'm sure we'll be saying the same thing about Indonesia in another decade as we scoff at whatever "new Indonesia" is. 

This is not a bad thing. It's a sign of progress. 

I remember the early MIK stuff in the 90's. It was pretty terrible, but even then many saw potential. Year after year it was getting better and better.

In the mid 00's when Cortek moved to Indonesia there was a lot of naysaying, and while I don't think they've gotten quite to where Korea is, they are getting better rather quickly. It took SK almost three decades to do what Indonesia seems to be close to doing in one and a half.


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## JD27 (Apr 29, 2018)

Yup major bummer. The LTD and G&L Tribute from Indonesia I had were ok... for $400 guitars. I’d hope those are a lot better at $1000. At this point I’m not sure what they are making at WMI.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2018)

JD27 said:


> Yup major bummer. The LTD and G&L Tribute from Indonesia I had were ok... for $400 guitars. I’d hope those are a lot better at $1000. At this point I’m not sure what they are making at WMI.



If I had to guess WMI is shifting into becoming more of a "boutique OEM" catering more to fewer, more expensive models built in batches and runs.

There have been rumblings about WMI not being able to handle the amount of orders they're getting, hence delays accross the board. One way to alleviate that is to reduce the number of instruments in queue while maximizing profit per unit.

Why make 1000 LTDs for $300 a unit when you can make 250 [insert import version of boutique brand] for $600 a unit?


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## JD27 (Apr 29, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If I had to guess WMI is shifting into becoming more of a "boutique OEM" catering more to fewer, more expensive models built in batches and runs.
> 
> There have been rumblings about WMI not being able to handle the amount of orders they're getting, hence delays accross the board. One way to alleviate that is to reduce the number of instruments in queue while maximizing profit per unit.



I meant more of what LTDs are being made there, but you may be right. I noticed some Shecters also moved to Indonesia this year too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2018)

JD27 said:


> I meant more of what LTDs are being made there, but you may be right. I noticed some Shecters also moved to Indonesia this year too.



It looks like they're moving everything other than _some_ signatures to Indonesia, for now at least. 

They likely have outstanding orders and contracts to clear before everything moves over.


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## trem licking (Apr 29, 2018)

I have seen very few good/great indo guitars... I can count them on one hand. this definitely sucks.


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## Shoeless_jose (Apr 29, 2018)

Super bummer, although as much as I thought about grabbing one of the faded black ec1000s they don't have maple cap so I'll hold out for a used MIJ or an E-II.

One thing I feel though is that Korea has never gotten to Japan level it seems like LTDs were still clearly not as good as ESPs so Korea still has a lot of room to grow into.


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## eightsixboy (Apr 29, 2018)

trem licking said:


> I have seen very few good/great indo guitars... I can count them on one hand. this definitely sucks.



Unfortunately this is very true. Basically every Indo I have owned or looked at has had some issues. It used to be kind of ok because they were cheap like 4-5 years ok, but now the prices of indo guitars are up there with the MIK stuff and some MIJ Ibanez/Schecter/FGN made stuff.


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## Meeotch (Apr 29, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It looks like they're moving everything other than _some_ signatures to Indonesia, for now at least.



I wonder if the upcoming import Keith Merrow sigs will stay in Korea?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2018)

Meeotch said:


> I wonder if the upcoming import Keith Merrow sigs will stay in Korea?



I was speaking specifically to LTD, but I'm sure Schecter will follow suit.


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## Rawkmann (Apr 29, 2018)

I was a little bummed when my newest Schecter Sun Valley came in and it was an Indonesian made. But turns out it’s an excellent guitar definitely comparable to their higher end Korean models.


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## wiretap (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> I meant more of what LTDs are being made there, but you may be right. I noticed some Shecters also moved to Indonesia this year too.



Bare in mind, both ESP and Schecter are owned by the same guy. Or at least last I heard.


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## wiretap (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> I meant more of what LTDs are being made there, but you may be right. I noticed some Shecters also moved to Indonesia this year too.



Oops, double post.


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## A-Branger (Apr 30, 2018)

also mind you that WMI has a factory in Indo too, so in a way its staying under the same. And I bet you they would have the staff there trained properly. I dont think LTD would ahve changed their top model to a different factory if the quality wasnt there...... apart for a $ savings here and there....

And who knows maybe WMI Korea is getting too bussy and only way to meet demand for big brands like LTD is to make some batches at their Indo factory


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## Zado (Apr 30, 2018)

Some have been complaining about the higher prices for the incoming new Fishman loaded KM-II... the reason is proly the same. I wonder if people would prefer more expensive korean LTD deluxe, or Indos with the same price.


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## AdenM (Apr 30, 2018)

From the looks of it this is happening for SE Customs this year as well - some batches from WMI Korea, some from Cort in Indo - SE Standards are Wildwood. I'd hope the Cort factory will measure up sooner rather than later, but I guess we will see.

@wiretap is your new Sparrowhawk MiK?


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## Sumsar (Apr 30, 2018)

With the new talks between north and south Korea, who knows, we might see WMI open a factory in North Korea to lower cost drastically, but still keep the MIK tag


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## Splenetic (Apr 30, 2018)

It's too bad most people won't hold back their buying over this. It's simple really, vote with your wallet. The fact that these axes have gone from 800-900 to 1400-1600 covers the rising expense of Korean made products plenty. I mean, Agile's are still MIK ffs and their price range hasn't ballooned up in the past year which makes me think this just comes down to pure old fashioned greed. 

And yeah, i'll take an MIK Agile over any Indo guitar I've owned or tried.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 30, 2018)

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> It's too bad most people won't hold back their buying over this. It's simple really, vote with your wallet. The fact that these axes have gone from 800-900 to 1400-1600 covers the rising expense of Korean made products plenty. I mean, Agile's are still MIK ffs and their price range hasn't ballooned up in the past year which makes me think this just comes down to pure old fashioned greed.
> 
> And yeah, i'll take an MIK Agile over any Indo guitar I've owned or tried.



Agile probably orders several magnitudes less guitars than Schecter or LTD and deal directly, so no need to pay a distributor or retailer or set up a authorized repair network.

Kind of apples and oranges.


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## SDMFVan (Apr 30, 2018)

I also think this is partially a result of consumers expecting more high end appointments on guitars in this price range. The H3-1000 has Duncan pickups, Tonepros bridge, locking tuners and an ebony board for $900. Having them made in Indonesia is the best way for ESP to maximize their profit margin.


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## cwhitey2 (Apr 30, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> I also think this is partially a result of consumers expecting more high end appointments on guitars in this price range. The H3-1000 has Duncan pickups, Tonepros bridge, locking tuners and an ebony board for $900. Having them made in Indonesia is the best way for ESP to maximize their profit margin.


I don't disagree with you about the profit, but I don't know if it's good for the long run.

Personally, I will not buy another Indo guitar. They aren't even in the same ballpark as Korean guitars...at least the ones that I have played aren't.


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## JD27 (Apr 30, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> I also think this is partially a result of consumers expecting more high end appointments on guitars in this price range. The H3-1000 has Duncan pickups, Tonepros bridge, locking tuners and an ebony board for $900. Having them made in Indonesia is the best way for ESP to maximize their profit margin.



Maybe across the board for guitars in that price range that is true. The Deluxe series have had those features (or EMGs) since the early 2000s. They actually used to have Sperzel locking tuners way back too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> Maybe across the board for guitars in that price range that is true. The Deluxe series have had those features (or EMGs) since the early 2000s. They actually used to have Sperzel locking tuners way back too.



Guitars don't exist in a bubble. 

Woods such as ebony and rosewood are much more expensive to source compared to a decade ago. Sperzel tuners aren't the "Cadillac" of tuners they once were. 

The economy of South Korea, and the world as a whole has changed considerably. What cost $900 in 2000 now costs over $1300. 

Not to mention that fewer new guitars are being sold.


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## JD27 (Apr 30, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Guitars don't exist in a bubble.
> 
> Woods such as ebony and rosewood are much more expensive to source compared to a decade ago. Sperzel tuners aren't the "Cadillac" of tuners they once were.
> 
> ...



I know they don't and prices increase over time. Sperzels however are a well known brand, over say whatever LTD branded locking tuner that has been used since the mid 2000s. My point was simply, LTD always offered those features in a guitar at that price point.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> I know they don't and prices increase over time. Sperzels however are a well known brand, over say whatever LTD branded locking tuner that has been used since the mid 2000s. My point was simply, LTD always offered those features in a guitar at that price point.



Locking tuners are such a simple mechanism. Back when they started using Sperzels they were the only game in town, then they switched to Gotoh which were cheaper and soon after the OEM ones. They're perfectly capable.

Small incremental price savings probably helped to stave off more abrupt price hikes. 

Though, looking past the spec sheet, the LTD Deluxe models always tended to hit well above thier class when it came to quality and consistency. That's why they were such a hit, they weren't anything special on paper but were killer workhorse guitars. 

Also, most Deluxe models used rosewood for the longest time.


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## mpexus (Apr 30, 2018)

Guess the writting was on the Wall since some years but people prefer to not see it... How much do Ibanez Iron Label series cost? Where are they made? Thats right... Ibanez saw how it would be sooner than anyone else it seems.


Indonesia is what Korea was 10 years ago or it will become sooner than later. China and Vietnam(or India) will be the new "Indonesia". Korea is like Japan on the early 90s. Japan is basically boutique or very expensive stuff, apart from the sub 1k new RGs 550.

Also economy is changing a lot, Asia is not the cheap labour force it once was. They produce everthing and the entire World buys from them, guess were the money really is.


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## Shoeless_jose (Apr 30, 2018)

I feel like LTD 1000 series really set the bar for midrange imports. And as such alll competion was looking for ways to compete such as ibanez iron label stuff. LTD likely noticed they were losing market share to these and jackson pro series, so to keep up... Bam


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## JD27 (Apr 30, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Locking tuners are such a simple mechanism. Back when they started using Sperzels they were the only game in town, then they switched to Gotoh which were cheaper and soon after the OEM ones. They're perfectly capable.
> 
> Small incremental price savings probably helped to stave off more abrupt price hikes.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I actually prefer the newer Gotoh MG-T, Grover, or Schallers, they have a higher gear ration and are more precise than Sperzels. Oddly, all my ESPs have the Sperzels now though.

And that was a big draw for me with the Deluxe series, especially they earlier lines. They had a ton of features compared to others at that price. The Viper 1000 I had was an awesome player, just wish it didn't have the abalone bedazzling treatment.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> Yeah, I actually prefer the newer Gotoh MG-T, Grover, or Schallers, they have a higher gear ration and are more precise than Sperzels. Oddly, all my ESPs have the Sperzels now though.
> 
> And that was a big draw for me with the Deluxe series, especially they earlier lines. They had a ton of features compared to others at that price. The Viper 1000 I had was an awesome player, just wish it didn't have the abalone bedazzling treatment.



All those awesome features are now, individually more expensive than they were previously. 

Not to mention almost 20 years ago, those features weren't as common and now folks won't even look at a guitar unless it's already decked out in aftermarket parts from the factory.


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## wiretap (Apr 30, 2018)

Am I the only person that doesn’t reaaaallly care all that much about the locking tuner brand? I’ve got sperzels, gotoh, and ESP brand on various guitars and they all do the job with little to no issue. Just not picky at all about ratio.


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## feraledge (Apr 30, 2018)

wiretap said:


> Am I the only person that doesn’t reaaaallly care all that much about the locking tuner brand? I’ve got sperzels, gotoh, and ESP brand on various guitars and they all do the job with little to no issue. Just not picky at all about ratio.


All I care about is thumb wheel. The old locking tuners on ESP SS's were awful.


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## JD27 (Apr 30, 2018)

wiretap said:


> Am I the only person that doesn’t reaaaallly care all that much about the locking tuner brand? I’ve got sperzels, gotoh, and ESP brand on various guitars and they all do the job with little to no issue. Just not picky at all about ratio.



Locking tuners are the most important feature for me, but I do think some work a little better than others. 



feraledge said:


> All I care about is thumb wheel. The old locking tuners on ESP SS's were awful.



The old Gotoh Magnums worked well as far as locking, they just were a pain in the ass to unlock.


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## wiretap (Apr 30, 2018)

feraledge said:


> All I care about is thumb wheel. The old locking tuners on ESP SS's were awful.



I got used to them when basically all my ESP’s had them but now that they have the ESP branded thumbwheel ones, I definitely get annoyed when I have to change strings on one of my Gotoh-equipped ESP’s. As far as functionality is concerned though, they work great.


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## Zado (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> The old Gotoh Magnums worked well as far as locking, they just were a pain in the ass to unlock.


^This. I love my USA Schec, but those lockings are just terrible if you need something practical and fast. My hellraiser is far better about that.


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## SatanicToaster (Apr 30, 2018)

well thats disappointing, guess I'll save up for the E-II version


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Apr 30, 2018)

SatanicToaster said:


> well thats disappointing, guess I'll save up for the E-II version


Even with the MIK the E-ii are way above LTD Deluxe IMO.


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## Smoked Porter (Apr 30, 2018)

JD27 said:


> Locking tuners are the most important feature for me, but I do think some work a little better than others.
> 
> 
> 
> The old Gotoh Magnums worked well as far as locking, they just were a pain in the ass to unlock.



I'd rather use regular tuners over the Gotoh Mags. They're seriously that fucking annoying.


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## A-Branger (May 1, 2018)

also remember that because "its made in Indo" it doesnt means that the quality of the guitar would be a huge drop. Remember those factories have different levels of materials, finishes, and QC inot them. You want a better instrument you pay more $. Same reason you can have a $ and a $$$$$ both coming from the same WMI factory.

Most Indo's are a "meh" because thats part of the build level they were ordered. They need to keep prices down to have a "cheap" guitar, so take away this spec, that spec, simplify this and taht, and cut down the QC and settup time too. "Just give me a pre-cut plastic nut, instead of a hand filed bone nut please" 

quality might drop in Indo for the deluxe series?.... maybe?.... but chances are no. Would there be more lemons?, maybe


Check the new Solars for what could be the LTD's quality, since those are made in Indo on the same factory as the PRS SE Standards.... according to a photo of the factory floor..... and assuming PRS is using both WMI Korea and Indo


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## luislais (May 1, 2018)

Unbeliebable... I hope LTD knows what they are doing...


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## feraledge (May 1, 2018)

Just putting it out there, the 400 series LTDs I have owned that were made in Indonesia were all totally fine. Necks more consistent than those made in Korea over the same time period.


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## bnzboy (May 1, 2018)

Looks like this is the new trend. I noticed that Strandberg Fusion is now manufactured in Indonesia. Hopefully I can grab the new KM mk-iii while being manufactured in Korea.


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## cwhitey2 (May 1, 2018)

bnzboy said:


> Looks like this is the new trend. I noticed that Strandberg Fusion is now manufactured in Indonesia. Hopefully I can grab the new KM mk-iii while being manufactured in Korea.



Actually..."*Manufacturers:* World Musical Instruments, South Korea and PT Cort, Indonesia"

From the Strandberg website at the bottom. They could be made anywhere in Asia


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## Mathemagician (May 1, 2018)

luislais said:


> Unbeliebable... I hope LTD knows what they are doing...



I’m sure no one at ESP has run the numbers, reviewed what the market will bear, accounted for inflation and ever increasing production costs and planned to move lines that will better align with the growth plans. 

Nope. They’re just winging it.


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## wedge_destroyer (May 1, 2018)

feraledge said:


> Just putting it out there, the 400 series LTDs I have owned that were made in Indonesia were all totally fine. Necks more consistent than those made in Korea over the same time period.



That's where I'm at with MII Jacksons, they seem more a bit more consistent than the previous X and Pro series I've played in the past.


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## groverj3 (May 1, 2018)

You can have them made in Indonesia for the same price, or made in SK for more. Pick your poison.


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## wiretap (May 1, 2018)

feraledge said:


> Just putting it out there, the 400 series LTDs I have owned that were made in Indonesia were all totally fine. Necks more consistent than those made in Korea over the same time period.



Same here. 400 Series Phoenix was quite awesome, with some locking tuners installed of course. And for reference to anyone reading this- I pretty much have something all the way up the line. 400, Deluxe, Standard, Custom Shop. Obviously there are differences but the 400 is by no means a slacker guitar. And as someone else noted, with the increase in price/line, the QC and craftsmanship will go up as well. ESP runs through various prototypes of makes and models and I know they wouldn’t take the deluxe line and just turn it to shit.


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## bnzboy (May 2, 2018)

I am sure people will eventually get used to the new trend of Indonesian made guitars but it will take some time for the quality of those guitars being produced to catch up. I feel like big companies like ESP is well aware that these Indonesian guitars will still sell. I will definitely miss MIK LTDs though. 



cwhitey2 said:


> Actually..."*Manufacturers:* World Musical Instruments, South Korea and PT Cort, Indonesia"
> 
> From the Strandberg website at the bottom. They could be made anywhere in Asia



I have been checking out their specials (Blem/B-stock) and a bunch of them were made in Indonesia. I think it is safe to assume that some of these models are now exclusively being manufactured in Indonesia (ie. Metal, Fusion) and no longer being made in Korea. OS Original used to state both Korea and Indonesia and now Korea has been removed from the website.


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## The 1 (May 2, 2018)

bnzboy said:


> I am sure people will eventually get used to the new trend of Indonesian made guitars but it will take some time for the quality of those guitars being produced to catch up. I feel like big companies like ESP is well aware that these Indonesian guitars will still sell. I will definitely miss MIK LTDs though.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been checking out their specials (Blem/B-stock) and a bunch of them were made in Indonesia. I think it is safe to assume that some of these models are now exclusively being manufactured in Indonesia (ie. Metal, Fusion) and no longer being made in Korea. OS Original used to state both Korea and Indonesia and now Korea has been removed from the website.



I remember reading somewhere that all the imports are being moved to Indo. The remaining MIK ones are just the remaining stock from the last WMI batches.


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## possumkiller (May 2, 2018)

I'm not paying $1k and up for an Indonesian guitar when I can buy a used Japanese guitar for less than a grand. I tested the iron labels and premium Ibanez guitars and they feel exactly like a cheap ass bottom line RG7321 with a couple of name brand parts and a price hike.


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## A-Branger (May 2, 2018)

donno if this would be helpfull in any way, but Ibanez uses a different factory. Same country, different manufacture


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