# NGD - Robbins Custom (56k = Broke the Internet's Feelings)



## Watty (Sep 19, 2013)

Tl;dr &#8211; Skip down for pictures&#8230;.

So, many of you saw the build thread for this guitar over in the luthiery section of the forum, but it&#8217;s finally time to unveil it in all its glory. Since there&#8217;s more to the story than &#8220;just&#8221; the guitar, this review might run a bit long, but hey&#8230;I like to write. And in honor of how everything went down, I figure I should name this one 'Versy....

And as it's been hashed in several locations, let's dispense with the "to copy or not to copy" comments. I'll do my best to answer any and all other inquiries.







How did I find out about Tyler?

I was talking to another forum member whom I live near about potentially organizing a tandem build with a local luthier in the hopes of keeping costs down. We weren&#8217;t able to settle on anyone and he recommended that I check out Tyler Robbins, who (as of now) has completed two builds for him. He said that Tyler&#8217;s customer service (as the result of an issue with an initial project) really sold him and figured he might build me something despite his website being closed to orders. At his recommendation and seeing that Tyler&#8217;s previous work looked interesting to say the least (anchor anyone?), I decided to contact him to see about getting something on the books.

Customer Service?

To say Tyler excelled in this arena would be an understatement. After a few emails back and forth (which were answered within a day), he provided his phone number and from then on, we texted just about daily throughout the build process. And while we never spoke on the phone (younger generation and all that), I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;d be happy to take your call to ask for updates and such. He provided about 150 pictures of the build process in the end and also had a friend of his (also a forum member) record a semi-pro video demoing the guitar once it was finished. We also discussed an original design of his as he was hoping to get customer input on what might work better and such. And regardless of whether he implements any of the changes I suggested, the fact that he asked speaks volumes about his business sense in moving his operation forward.

Schedule?

Being that Tyler will be attending an acoustic-oriented building course in the coming weeks, he had a HARD deadline to get mine done and didn&#8217;t disappoint. I placed the formal deposit on June 25th, which means he delivered in under 3 months; pretty crazy for the product that resulted. Granted, given that this was the only guitar he was working on at the time, I can&#8217;t say they&#8217;ll always be this fast. But even if it had taken longer, his consistent updating, be it pictures or otherwise, kept me satisfied in terms of knowing that he was working on it. I can only assume that this will continue in the future as he&#8217;s said he&#8217;ll be keeping himself somewhat &#8220;exclusive&#8221; for the time being so as not to get swamped. Best way to go about it if you ask me. 

Cost?

Right now, he doesn&#8217;t really have any sort of pricing scheme as you might expect. He essentially told me he&#8217;d build a guitar for me and I told him what I wanted. He didn&#8217;t knock the price down for taking off &#8220;options&#8221; or increase it for &#8220;adding&#8221; them. This is liable to change once he starts taking more orders, but suffice it to say that he&#8217;s priced about where you&#8217;d expect given the pricing of many other new luthiers on the scene. And while I can&#8217;t guarantee that it&#8217;ll continue, he was willing to haggle on the price given that I provided some of the woods. I won&#8217;t step on his toes and provide anyone the final price but I feel that I got what I paid for and then some. Is it a PRS Private Stock? No. But I think that this thing punches above its weight class based on the guitars I&#8217;ve owned in the past.

Playability?

I&#8217;d been so used to my Black Water up to now, and given that it has an oiled finish, this is significantly different. I asked Tyler for a gloss on the top and the front of the headstock while everything else was to be left matte. Given that it has a gloss finish, it&#8217;s a bit more challenging for me to navigate, but that&#8217;s something I was willing to sacrifice in order to get it looking as it does. It&#8217;s not overly heavy, so I doubt it&#8217;ll be a problem playing for long periods of time. 

Perhaps the most unique feature in this arena is the neck profile. I first encountered the trapezoid profile on my Guitar Logistics Express (see RestorationAD&#8217;s thread in the dealers&#8217; section) and I really liked it. With the way I play, the ridge towards the bass side of the neck proved to be a good resting place while fretting. I took some basic measurements from that guitar and, after modifying them slightly, asked both Aaron and Tyler to give a go at replicating it on my instruments. Both did an amazing job, though in the end, the BW is more reminiscent of an Ibanez and this is more like a PRS. I love both necks, and I feel that each fits with the overall &#8220;theme&#8221; of the respective guitar, so I dig the way they both came out. And LOOK AT THAT GRAIN!

Profile aside, this thing has great sustain and sounds pretty resonant unplugged. And the set neck proved to be a feature that not only looks sick, but plays great as well (I&#8217;ve tended to shy away from them in the past). He did a stellar job blending the two woods and the seam looks gorgeous. Upper fret access, insofar as I actually use it, is exactly what you&#8217;d expect&#8230;.easy. 

Tone?

The thing that really surprised me about this was how similar to a hollow body this thing sounds on the neck and middle positions with the coil tap engaged. I knew I liked the VHII before, but damn does it shine in this guitar and wood combination. The dirty tone is a bit different than I expected to hear from the Nailbomb. Not to say that I don&#8217;t like it, but I think that I may end up going with something that&#8217;s a bit more focused. Maybe it&#8217;s just me being too used to my ash BW with a Cold Sweat in the bridge, but only time will tell. The description of the pickup was spot on though, organic (especially in this setting) was a great way to put how the tone ends up in the end.

Oh&#8230;..right. Specifications?

One Piece Curly Redwood Top
One Piece Black Limba Body
One Piece Indian Rosewood Neck
Ebony Fingerboard
Ebony/Curly Redwood Headstock Overlay
Ebony Side Block Inlays
Curly Redwood Neck and Headstock Binding
Ebony Body Binding 
TUSQ XL Nut
Hipshot Locking Machine Heads
Schaller Hannes Bridge (in Ruthernium)
BareKnuckle VHII Neck Pickup
BareKnuckle Nailbomb (AlNiCo) Bridge Pickup
24 Stainless Steel Frets
25.5&#8221; Scale Length
Coil Tap Enabled (This sounds like a hollowbody)

Nitpicking?

Not that I really expected to find a whole lot wrong with the instrument, but there were a few minor things that showed it&#8217;s made by a person with his own QC process. Most notably, there were a few spots where the taping between the two finish materials&#8217; spraying could be seen. This was especially evidence around the curly redwood on the headstock, but given how the binding was cut and inlaid, not to mention how thick it was there, I wouldn&#8217;t have expected it to be perfect. I may come up more things as time goes on, but overall, I&#8217;m pretty damn satisfied with how it turned out. Still in the honeymoon phase for sure.

Pictures? (Of course&#8230;..)

This guitar takes on different moods and colors with the sort of light. Can go from a deep caramel to a bengal tiger look a like with just a subtle change in how it's held.









































With a friend:


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## Watty (Sep 19, 2013)

Vik? Yep&#8230;..Vik.

So, as I&#8217;m sure 99% of you are as of now aware, Vik got his proverbial panties in a wad when this was shared to Guitar Porn&#8217;s Facebook page. I&#8217;m going to attempt to lay out the chronology of events for posterity&#8217;s sake without going into detail on any of the arguments for or against as myself and others thoroughly espoused them on his page and in the thread presently in the OT section of the forum. So, with permission from Tyler to post his replies:

Vik sees the guitar porn post and sends this to Tyler via PM:

_&#8220;I understand that you are too you and stupid to understand a thing about professional ethics between luthiers but please be so kind as to take down pictures of that thing which design doesn&#8217;t belong to you. And be ashamed if you known something about conciseness. Thank you! Vik.&#8221;_

Tyler replies with:

_&#8220;Hey Vik. I understand why you made the comments you did but know that I have always given you credit for the design. I am just starting out and took on any shape a customer asked for while changing a few things to keep it from being an exact copy. I am saving up for Luthiery school and don&#8217;t have hundreds of orders flying in to choose from so I took what I could get. I apologize sincerely if I offended you and I will not be making any more as I am now coming up with designs that I am happy with. I have since turned down others who have asked for the same shape and told them to go through you for the design. I look up to you and think your work is some of the best, so I hope you can see the imitation is the compliment I hoped it would be. Anyway, I hope that there are no hard feelings, but if that&#8217;s the case I understand just know that there will be no more coming out of my shop.&#8221;_

Vik proceeds to post the first status update on his Facebook page after reading this (Tyler could see that he&#8217;d seen it with the read receipt). To quote him as it has since been taken down:

_&#8220;It's funny how easily some guys are trying to make money and name on something that doesn't belong to them&#8230;Skerversen, Black Water, Roter&#8230; to name a few and dozens of those yet nameless&#8230;&#8221;_

Vik replies to Tyler&#8217;s message with:

_&#8220;You think we all got tons of orders out of the blue? I spent years doing sorts of repairs and then years of living in the shop day and night to get where I am now. But I never ripped off others luthiers work though I was getting dozens of inquiries for a black machine copy weekly.&#8221;_

Tyler asks:

_&#8220;You&#8217;ve never made any design that wasn&#8217;t completely original, ever?&#8221;_

Vik replies:

_&#8220;I did quite a few LPs, teles, Strats, Ibbies but never a design made by luthier I know how hard this piece of bread is and that's why I wouldn't ever take it from the colleague even if it wouldn&#8217;t hurt him much.&#8221;_

To keep it short, Tyler replies with more of his original message (perhaps being even more apologetic than before and reiterating he wouldn&#8217;t build any more) and Vik doesn&#8217;t reply to him after that.

After that you all saw the other status updates Vik posted, not to mention the COMPLETELY UNPROFESSIONAL message he left on Tyler&#8217;s business page. See the thread about Vik&#8217;s behavior as I believe Paul Ortiz was the one to catch it before it went down and post it up elsewhere.

Edit: I can't find it, but Tyler's told me he didn't delete it.

Edit2: Tyler told me that he requested Vik remove it via PM and, presumably, Vik did so.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Sep 19, 2013)

Through all the bullshit, I just wanted better pictures of this incredibly nice guitar. a VHNGD to you, sir!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 19, 2013)

Tl;dr version: "Wahhh, someone made money off of my design and I didn't. Hurt btutz, etc. :cry:"


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## MikeH (Sep 19, 2013)

Who cares? You got a phenomenal instrument, and ViK is just upset that you didn't pay an extra $2000 for him to build it. That thing is stunning.


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## Exit Existence (Sep 19, 2013)




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## bouVIP (Sep 19, 2013)

It's sexier every time I see it dude!


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## poopyalligator (Sep 19, 2013)

That looks amazing. Congrats on the guitar.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Sep 19, 2013)

Congrats looks great!


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2013)

That thing is beautiful! That wood is so strange - I'd never have guessed that wasn't some fancy paintjob on there because it's so unique! 

(And lulz that Vik thinks no one designed LPs, Strats, Teles, etc. I guess they just randomly occurred in nature?)


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## iRaiseTheDead (Sep 19, 2013)

I understand where vik is coming from, but hey. Dude said it himself, he copied LPs, Strats, Ibbies, etc. Which.... if from what I believe is correct --->A<--- human being created. therefor, he's ripping them off?


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## ramses (Sep 19, 2013)

Hmmm .... so ... do you believe Robbin would take an order for a Duality 7 after all this?


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## Watty (Sep 19, 2013)

ramses said:


> Hmmm .... so ... do you believe Robbin would take an order for a Duality 7 after all this?



 I doubt it man. Believe it or not, he wants to get into the acoustics business, so you might not even see TOO many more electrics come out of his shop.


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## TRENCHLORD (Sep 19, 2013)

Love the colors, very unique shades. HNGD


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> I doubt it man. Believe it or not, he wants to get into the acoustics business, so you might not even see TOO many more electrics come out of his shop.



But I wanted a fanned-fret VikMachine with Black Water pickups.


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## Erockomania (Sep 20, 2013)

So nice! Congrats! Very beautiful guitar by a promising up and comer!

Regarding the whole Vik thing... There is no other way to look at Vik's stance (even if you think the practice of copying instruments is something to be frowned upon) other than he is being a hypocrite. 

Vik did precisely the same thing as Robbins did when he started out and now he is slandering this kid for doing the same thing. Nice. I'm sure this will all smooth over over the next few weeks but you can bet Vik's lost business because of his own words. There are ways to express your opinion professionally. He chose to go at it like a pissed off 16 year old.


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## VonKebbels (Sep 20, 2013)

That is one fine looking axe. HNGD!


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## mcd (Sep 20, 2013)

dude your doctor called, you're allergic to redwood

so for your sake send me that guitar, I'm here to help.

and HNGD


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## Mehnike (Sep 20, 2013)

So the big name brands are okay to copy. Thanks vik. Better stay small.


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## Daf57 (Sep 20, 2013)

Beautiful guitar, Watty! Congrats!


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## Malkav (Sep 20, 2013)

Nice one man!

HNGD!



Mehnike said:


> So the big name brands are okay to copy. Thanks vik. Better stay small.


 
Not just the big brands, Vik literally ripped off a Suhr modern with everything down the anniversary inlay they were doing.

So he took a small custom shops shape, headstock design and unique inlay and completely forged it, despite the fact as a normal human being you could go to Suhr and ask for literally exactly the same thing and end up with a guitar of comparable quality.

And yes I said comparable, because when a guitar is as well built as a Vik or a Suhr then it's pretty much up to personal preference as to which one you perceive as being better quality.


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## HighGain510 (Sep 20, 2013)

Malkav said:


> Nice one man!
> 
> HNGD!
> 
> ...



Do you have pics of that? I never saw that one, but if that's true, he really shouldn't be complaining as Suhr is still a "relatively" small business. It's nowhere near the size of Fender/Gibson/etc., so it would be a little ironic if he's ripping off someone like Suhr (especially to that level of detail) and then complaining about another builder stealing his design.  I don't condone the stealing of other luthiers' designs but I won't really get into that in this thread, I do however find it amusing if the above is actually true since it pretty much nullifies any potential reasoning he could try to inject into that conversation. 

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't even realize there was an entire monster thread in OT about this already, and proof posted regarding the copies he made himself. Normally I'm against small luthiers getting ripped off, but when a dude lambasts other luthiers for stealing his designs to get started and it turns out he did so himself, it makes it REALLY hard for me to feel too sorry for him.


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## ikarus (Sep 20, 2013)

Looks so awesome, HNGD dude!


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## Zado (Sep 20, 2013)

The guitar looks amazin!Congrats man!



About the story: it's givin me the idea of start making Vik copies by myself just to read the replies of the guy 


Oh and btw I like this original design of his


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## straightshreddd (Sep 20, 2013)

Happy NGD, man. Looks great.

As for the whole Vik thing, he clearly contradicted himself and sounded like an asshole while Tyler was being super polite. If I had millions and was offered the very first spot on the Vik list, I don't think I'd take it after all that.


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## protest (Sep 20, 2013)

HNGD! There's so much going on yet it's very classy looking.

Also, I get where that guy is coming from because it's his design, whereas LP's and strats (though originally designed by someone obviously) are ubiquitous. Pretty much all major guitar companies have an LP or Strat shaped guitar. However, it is pretty much the same thing, and after talking to the guy I would have cut him some slack. He was up front with everything, explained the situation, and was apologetic.


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## kylendm (Sep 20, 2013)

Just sayin....you forgot pics of the headstock!


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## DISTORT6 (Sep 20, 2013)

NICE SOCKS! 

It was fun following along with you during this build, Watty.


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## icos211 (Sep 20, 2013)

God damn that is such a great looking guitar. If it was a 7, I would shit my pants.

As for the whole Vik situation, though I don't want to get too much into it, did he ever complete primary school? That grammar...


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

kylendm said:


> Just sayin....you forgot pics of the headstock!



I couldn't get a good shot of it in the light...



DISTORT6 said:


> NICE SOCKS!
> 
> It was fun following along with you during this build, Watty.



Champion forever!


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## MF_Kitten (Sep 20, 2013)

The truth is that all we really learned from this is that ViK is a bit of a dick, and Robbins is good at building guitars... Which I believe isn't what ViK was aiming for.

Really though, ViK is an amazing builder, and Robbins did a good job recreating his design. All this mess aside, that's a really nice guitar! Congrats on it!


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

MF_Kitten said:


> The truth is that all we really learned from this is that ViK is a bit of a dick, and Robbins is good at building guitars... Which I believe isn't what ViK was aiming for.
> 
> Really though, ViK is an amazing builder, and Robbins did a good job recreating his design. All this mess aside, that's a really nice guitar! Congrats on it!



Well put man, and thanks!


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## Mprinsje (Sep 20, 2013)

icos211 said:


> God damn that is such a great looking guitar. If it was a 7, I would shit my pants.
> 
> As for the whole Vik situation, though I don't want to get too much into it, did he ever complete primary school? That grammar...



while i don't agree with vik at all, the guy is belorussian so his english is bound to be kinda bad.

Also, guitar is gorgeous, HNGD!


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## ExtendedRange (Sep 20, 2013)

ViK is probably upset because that has to be the nicest ViK I've ever seen that ViK will never have a chance to build. Either way, it's a gorgeous piece of kit and I have a feeling that ViK lost a lot of consumer respect due to this outburst against Robbins, and other luthiers, and more importantly the way in which he was very demeaning and rude to some of his facebook fans. Absolutely unprofessional.


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## jephjacques (Sep 20, 2013)

Jesus christ, luthier drama is even more idiotic than webcartoonist drama


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't really see why it all has to be brought out in the open like this. I understand ViK is mad, it was his original design, something to be proud of, something of his own, something he build his current establishment on. But what he did do wrong is snap at people like someone stole his favorite Pokémon card. ViK still is a great luthier, who delivers great work, but he apparently is a bit touchy on his own design.

Having spewed my opinion, I love the way your guitar looks, and I hate there's already dust on it. It's no good anymore, you should give it to me! HNGD!


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## User Name (Sep 20, 2013)

well damn that is a mighty fine guitar. IMO vik needs to chill out. what ever happened to taking the high road? i agree its not really right to steal peoples designs but there are seriously many better ways the whole situation could have been handled.


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## User Name (Sep 20, 2013)

zippyripper said:


> I keep looking at blue guitar and now this one. It is so nice.
> 
> I can decide between new Schecter banshee 8, or Agile fan, or Robbins duality


coming from someone who has a pendulum, i would go with either the banshee or the robbins. dont get me wrong the pendulum is an awesome guitar. but the quality is just not on par with the schecter and the robbins.


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## Forkface (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't get it, isn't the Vik waiting list closed as we speak? (I think I read that somewhere?) it's like, assume he gets pissed before the guitar is built, then you got to him, then he tells you HE can't build it? 

anyway, that is 
ONE
BADASS
LOOKING 
GUITAR.
if that thing sounds as good as it looks it's going to have some monster tone for sure.
congrats


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

zippyripper said:


> I keep looking at blue guitar and now this one. It is so nice.
> 
> I can decide between new Schecter banshee 8, or Agile fan, or Robbins duality



Get the Banshee or Agile. Watty says that Tyler wants to get more into acoustic work, and judging by this shitstorm, he may not do another Duality clone.


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## arkohors (Sep 20, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Get the Banshee or Agile. Watty says that Tyler wants to get more into acoustic work, and judging by this shitstorm, he may not do another Duality clone.



Tyler actually has come up with a few more designs for electrics that are really badass (and shouldn't make any luhiers upset in the future...hopefully).

He's definitely not going to do any more copies in the future, but I'd still suggest looking into getting a Robbins.


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## hk_golgatha (Sep 20, 2013)

Now watty's avatar has TWO guitars I'm jealous of. 

Props on owning Vik on his own post and putting all of this here for all those who missed out to see it. Respect, as always, man.


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## fortisursus (Sep 20, 2013)

A custom is a custom! Who gives a damn if it "looks like another design". All that matters is that it looks like one hell of an instrument!


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks guys!


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## icos211 (Sep 20, 2013)

Mprinsje said:


> while i don't agree with vik at all, the guy is belorussian so his english is bound to be kinda bad.
> 
> Also, guitar is gorgeous, HNGD!



My bad, somewhere I thought I had heard that he was British. Wonder where I got that...


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Tl;dr version: "Wahhh, someone made money off of my design and I didn't. Hurt btutz, etc. :cry:"



Why did this get neg repped when I'm summarizing ViK's feelings? What a load of BS. It was no way a judgment of the OP or Robbin...


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## will_shred (Sep 20, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Why did this get neg repped when I'm summarizing ViK's feelings? What a load of BS. It was no way a judgment of the OP or Robbin...



IT was actually Vik, making accounts to neg rep those in support of Tyler (which at this point seems to be just about everyone)


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

will_shred said:


> IT was actually Vik, making accounts to neg rep those in support of Tyler (which at this point seems to be just about everyone)



Wait... my initial kneejerk reaction [as absurd as it was] was that ViK had created an account just to neg me. xD


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

STOP WITH THE CHILDISH NEG REPS! WTF!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

You're asking for a ban, aren't you?


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

The funniest thing about all of this is that, if Vik had posted this exact guitar, built exactly the same, on his website....I would have been confused. 

I mean, it has his body shape, but it doesn't LOOK like he built it. Whether it's the size of the pickup routes, the type of knobs installed, the width of the neck binding, the amount of the fingerboard built beyond the 24th, the amount of recess around the bridge, the depth of the carves on the interior of the horns, etc....none of it looks like HE HIMSELF built it. In the end, there's only so far you can get with eyeballing something insofar as reproducing it is concerned, not to mention what you feel more comfortable with as a craftsman. 

Tyler did exactly what he set out to do, namely, build a kick ass guitar inspired by Vik's design at my request.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You're asking for a ban, aren't you?



How the hell am I asking for a ban because childish kids are neg repping me for no reason? Explain that.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Sep 20, 2013)

You can't complain about rep.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

Complaining about neg rep awakens the banhammer.

'd


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> The funniest thing about all of this is that, if Vik had posted this exact guitar, built exactly the same, on his website....I would have been confused.
> 
> I mean, it has his body shape, but it doesn't LOOK like he built it. Whether it's the size of the pickup routes, the type of knobs installed, the width of the neck binding, the amount of the fingerboard built beyond the 24th, the amount of recess around the bridge, the depth of the carves on the interior of the horns, etc....none of it looks like HE HIMSELF built it.
> 
> Tyler did exactly what he set out to do, namely, build a kick ass guitar inspired by Vik's design.



He's mad because it looks way better than something ViK would've built using his design. That's probably where he's getting the butthurt feelerz and whatnot.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> You can't complain about rep.



Even when it's childish and uncalled for? What did I do to earn neg rep? Summarized ViK's butthurt? I've done shit that called for a neg rep because I was out of line, but the two I've gotten from this thread are just ridiculous.


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Even when it's childish and uncalled for? What did I do to earn neg rep? Summarized ViK's butthurt? I've done shit that called for a neg rep because I was out of line, but the two I've gotten from this thread are just ridiculous.



Only two? You haven't expressed enough unpopular opinions then...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Even when it's childish and uncalled for? What did I do to earn neg rep? Summarized ViK's butthurt? I've done shit that called for a neg rep because I was out of line, but the two I've gotten from this thread are just ridiculous.



We're not saying you're wrong, we're just saying that publicly complaining about rep like this can get you banned.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> Only two? You haven't expressed enough unpopular opinions then...



I have two from this thread that are totally wtf and one from an Engl thread that is the most absurd shit I've ever read ["Kt88 VHT have no gain. I know -- owned 2" ]. The other's were called for as I was out of line.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> We're not saying you're wrong, we're just saying that publicly complaining about rep like this can get you banned.



I've already PM'd Max but I dunno what that'll do.

Anyways, back on topic.


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

This here's a pile of wood with strings!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> This here's a pile of wood with strings!



The only kind that matters.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

Watty said:


> This here's a pile of wood with strings!



Well it's pretty useless without the metal, magnets, plastic, paint, and wires.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well it's pretty useless without the metal, magnets, plastic, paint, and wires.












WHAT IS THIS SORCERY!?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 20, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> WHAT IS THIS SORCERY!?



It's an electric-acoustic, so you're still proving my point.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 20, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's an electric-acoustic, so you're still proving my point.



Except an acoustic doesn't exactly need pickups etc whereas an electric is pretty useless without them.


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

So, now that I've had some more time to bond with the guitar, I figured I'd post an update:

First, this thing is a BEAST for cleans. I don't know what it is about the VHII in this guitar but it sounds perfect. I owned a PRS Hollow Body for a short time before determining that the bridge wasn't for me, and I loved the way it sounded in general due to the hollow nature. While this definitely isn't a hollow body, it comes very close to replicating the very "airy" tone that you'd expect from that sort of construction. Maybe it has something to do with the special capacitor Tyler wired into the circuit, but whatever it is, I dig it. I love to dick around with cleans pretty regularly and this is going to be great for that purpose among others.

Second, the Nailbomb hasn't necessarily grown on me as much. It's really clear and punctual, but I think I'm just too used to pickups that have a bit more "punch." I'm thinking I may have to go back to a Painkiller eventually if I can't gel with this one in the end. I still really dig how even it sounds though, chords ring out really well. Give it a mid-gain tone and it cuts with clarity.

Finally, the neck is also growing on me even more than I thought it would. I mean, it IS what I asked him for, but somehow he took the specs I gave and made them feel even more comfy. I think it's slightly more flat than my Black Water's neck is, but I like the contrast between the two. I'm starting to really dig the feel of the matte finish on it as well. I mean, almost nothing beats the feel of the oiled wood on the BW, but I think compromising the feel a slight bit to ensure that it stays in tip top shape with less work on my end (for longer) is worth it. And the fret work is pretty good as well. I don't know if anyone caught the closeups, but you really can't see that big "seam" that's present on some other guitars I've seen where the fret slot is cut all the way across the board. I don't know how he "hid" it exactly, but it looks and feels great!


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## Watty (Sep 20, 2013)

Oh, and for Kyle:


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## Robby the Robot (Sep 21, 2013)

Despite all the bashing and mud slinging, this is an awesome looking guitar man. HNGD.


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## kruneh (Sep 21, 2013)

Congratz, a nice selection of woods there.
If I was to do a similar build I would probably end up with something like this..... Oh wait, I actually did


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 21, 2013)

^So whats your opinion on this since its based off your guitar?

Awesome looking guitar Watty! Build quality looks excellent which is great for a new lutheir stepping out onto the custom market. To many new builders at the moment are releasing badly built guitars so its great to see someone really putting effort into all the fine details.

It may have set off quite an earthquake in the guitar world but in the end both Vik and Tyler have gotten a huge boost in popularity and interest.


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## LolloBlaskhyrt (Sep 21, 2013)

The guitar is like a wood-orgy  love it!


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## AxeHappy (Sep 21, 2013)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Even when it's childish and uncalled for? What did I do to earn neg rep? Summarized ViK's butthurt? I've done shit that called for a neg rep because I was out of line, but the two I've gotten from this thread are just ridiculous.




Man, I got neg rep (twice) for saying, "We will have to agree to disagree." 

And for obviously joking in the short hair thread. 

Don't take it so seriously. And don't bitch about rep. Bitching about rep is about as childish and pathetic as you can get.


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## Watty (Sep 21, 2013)

kruneh said:


> Congratz, a nice selection of woods there.
> If I was to do a similar build I would probably end up with something like this..... Oh wait, I actually did



Yep, after I picked up the redwood billet and saw your Vik, I though it would be a cool way to do the wood justice. However, I changed more than a fair amount (as did Tyler) in making mine. I can't tell if you're angry or not based on how your reply was worded, so I'll just leave it there instead of assuming the former and defending myself further for no reason...


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## narad (Sep 21, 2013)

Watty said:


> Yep, after I picked up the redwood billet and saw your Vik, I though it would be a cool way to do the wood justice. However, I changed more than a fair amount (as did Tyler) in making mine. I can't tell if you're angry or not based on how your reply was worded, so I'll just leave it there instead of assuming the former and defending myself further for no reason...



At the very least I think the pickup covers were a big improvement. My future future future Vik is definitely shaping up to have very similar specs.


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## Watty (Sep 21, 2013)

narad said:


> At the very least I think the pickup covers were a big improvement. My future future future Vik is definitely shaping up to have very similar specs.



Yeah, I know they match the maple binding on the neck and headstock better than covered pickups would have, but then again, I wouldn't have gone with maple in the first place. A bit too jarring...


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## kruneh (Sep 21, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> ^So whats your opinion on this since its based off your guitar?





Watty said:


> I can't tell if you're angry or not



The moment I saw the Robbins guitar I was like; WTF, a copy of my guitar 
But it´s just a guitar, I´m in no position to be angry because of a guitar that looks similar to mine. And let me add that it´s not flattering or anything like that either, seriously, it´s just a guitar.

But let´s just get the facts straight, it´s a copy of someone elses design and ideas. It´s not a tribute to Viks Duality design or a personal take on same design, it´s a copy. And it´s Viks income and occupation in life. 
I see there´s differences, i.e. headstock, and I´m sure there´s differences if you go down and measure it closely, but it´s a copy nonetheless.

Sure, we´ve all done wrong in life, and Vik has done copies too, the Suhr one easily comes to mind.
I feel for him, I fully understand his frustration, 100%, however he should have worded himself differently and more proffesional, no deny about it.

But all in all, people should have a bit more respect, or maybe I´m just old fashioned.. In the end I hope something good comes out of this, but I doubt it.

No hard feelings buddy 
And please don´t let this be a duel between the two guitars and their makers, I´m just as happy with mine as Watty is with his


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## Watty (Sep 21, 2013)

@ Kruneh - Fair enough and well said.

However, I doubt that any given Gibson or Fender custom shop customer would say the same thing about a "copy" of their guitar. (Wood selection, color choice, hardware, etc. all aside given that they're available in both cases). That leads me, again, to believe that it's ALL about the fact that Vik (or any other luthier) is an individual as opposed to a corporate entity. It's a perfectly legitimate position to hold, but recognize that it's not perfectly justified as a defense of the practice on the whole.

And, to be clear, Vik's occupation is building guitars....in whatever shape or form he elects to take on at customer behest. His designs are a means of attracting potential customers as, presumably, he'd be the best option if you wanted that EXACT shape.

Edit: The timber used for the neck on yours is hands down the best I've ever seen on any guitar, custom or otherwise.


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## Danukenator (Sep 21, 2013)

HNGD! I agree that this build looks like ViK inspired build as opposed to a direct copy.


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## bridges (Sep 21, 2013)

Once any luthier comes up with a new guitar design it is part of the public domain since it is not a protected intellectual property, unless he has a design patent. Design patents, as opposed to utility patents, offer very little protection because small modifications of the design will prevent the luthier from going after the offender. If a luthier spends years to develop his design he has to realize from the start that his design will be in the public domain and that there is nothing wrong or unethical if he is copied. The long evolution of the guitar has only benefited from good designs being copied by luthiers who in most cases added their own modifications. And this is also true for any other products whose designs have evolved over time.


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## Ocara-Jacob (Sep 21, 2013)

HNNNNNNNNG that's amazing. I want one.


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## soliloquy (Sep 22, 2013)

that is such a unique and beautiful looking guitar! congrats!


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## Alberto7 (Sep 22, 2013)

Watty why didn't I comment on this before?!  This is awesome, man. I'm as excited as I thought I would be upon watching your NGD.  It was cool that you also let us know how it developed, so thanks for that! Happy to hear you're happy with the outcome. Continue to enjoy the hell out of it! Congrats!


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## kruneh (Sep 22, 2013)

I think you´re perfectly right Watty, maybe we identify ourself more with a single person than with a big corporate system. I know I do.
Big brands and well known shapes, we take them for granted.





soliloquy said:


> that is such a unique and beautiful looking guitar! congrats!



WTF  (please accept it as a joke)


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## Axayacatl (Sep 22, 2013)

The *only* way that I can justify Vik's argument is to say that there are many strat/LP copies so each extra copy has but a marginal effect on Fender/Gibson sales. I.e., one extra Agile strat costs Fender 1/1000000000th of their income but a Vik copy would be a larger part of his income. But the self righteousness and whiney aggressiveness towards a young and polite luthier who is apologetic and in part doing homage to his work... that is a lot more difficult for me to justify.


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## Watty (Sep 22, 2013)

Axayacatl said:


> The *only* way that I can justify Vik's argument is to say that there are many strat/LP copies so each extra copy has but a marginal effect on Fender/Gibson sales. I.e., one extra Agile strat costs Fender 1/1000000000th of their income but a Vik copy would be a larger part of his income. But the self righteousness and whiney aggressiveness towards a young and polite luthier who is apologetic and in part doing homage to his work... that is a lot more difficult for me to justify.



True, though I would apply one (albeit slightly obtuse) caveat:

I'd actually have been willing to pay for the "real thing," but Vik's closed his wait list. Not to mention the fact that it would likely have been three or so years before I even got my instrument. And as much as I might hate to admit it, I don't even know if I'll be playing guitar in three years, so it seems a silly commitment to make given that I don't like to use credit cards to pay for things. (i.e. my money "locked up" for that duration). In this, I think Ola is making exactly the right decision by introducing himself into more than one market to not only get his product, but also his name and designs out into the world. 

I mean, we're almost closing in on a "patent troll" situation. For those that aren't aware, there are companies that sit back and buy patents and constantly make efforts to sue for infringement on them, despite making no effort to implement the design (etc.) in the real world. To relate this phenomena to this issue, if Vik were to decide that he's not going to build after he finishes his current backlog (completely possible), his behavior would imply that, if he had his way, you'd never be able to get one. Seems suspect at best in pretty much any way you look at it. At least Doug's never aired any "dirty laundry" with regards to his not taking orders and consequently not going after any copy builders...

In the end, I wouldn't do any business with Vik based on his personal proclivities as demonstrated by this situation among others. Maybe it's because I worked retail for 5 years and had to deal with horrible people while keeping a smile on my face, but I don't see any reason for (especially) a small business owner to conduct himself as he elected to.


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## Axayacatl (Sep 22, 2013)

Watty said:


> True, though I would apply one (albeit slightly obtuse) caveat:
> 
> I'd actually have been willing to pay for the "real thing," but Vik's closed his wait list. Not to mention the fact that it would likely have been three or so years before I even got my instrument. ....... In this, I think Ola is making exactly the right decision by introducing himself into more than one market to not only get his product, but also his name and designs out into the world....
> 
> I mean, we're almost closing in on a "patent troll" situation..



Nail on the head. The closed wait list is a huge detail I had no idea that actually makes his position kind of laughable. In a sense, there is no effect on his income that this other luthier made the guitar. On the contrary... I now know more about his guitars thanks to this other build. 

Second, yes, there is patent trolling. There are a few economists that argue (contrary to our founding fathers) that patents can in the end hurt innovation by inhibiting ''improvements'' on their product. Basically they use their deep pockets to destroy any possible encroachment on to their territory. I forget the exact innovation but two authors of a recent book on the issue cite an inventor who spent the rest of his life suing everybody left and right. But I don't want to get into a public policy issue when, put simply, Vik's waitlist is closed!


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## Suitable (Oct 5, 2013)

That is 1 sexy axe! HNGDD! Wicked execution! I want it! Tyler should make more of these!

Ps...

On my build I want to put a volume knob on it... What nut am I alowed to use? Oh and SS frets... Is it ok I put strings on it Vik?  Go blow a horse


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## kchay (Oct 5, 2013)

See, this business is offputting. I don't really see why he was unprofessional about it. Sure, he has some unique designs. But for a "starting" luthier, I don't see the harm. ESPECIALLY if credit is given. Not everyone can afford a Vik.


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## Blue1970Cutlass (Oct 5, 2013)

Drama aside, that is one helluva good looking guitar!


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## Splenetic (Oct 6, 2013)

I'm gonna e-mail Vik and ask him to help me spec out a new Robbins guitar. 

I just wanna see what he says. Trollolol.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Oct 6, 2013)

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> I'm gonna e-mail Vik and ask him to help me spec out a new Robbins guitar.
> 
> I just wanna see what he says. Trollolol.



No need to provoke.


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## Dopey Trout (Oct 10, 2013)

Watty said:


> True, though I would apply one (albeit slightly obtuse) caveat:
> 
> I'd actually have been willing to pay for the "real thing," but Vik's closed his wait list. Not to mention the fact that it would likely have been three or so years before I even got my instrument. And as much as I might hate to admit it, I don't even know if I'll be playing guitar in three years, so it seems a silly commitment to make given that I don't like to use credit cards to pay for things. (i.e. my money "locked up" for that duration). In this, I think Ola is making exactly the right decision by introducing himself into more than one market to not only get his product, but also his name and designs out into the world.
> 
> ...



You're completely correct, but this just doesn't sit right with me. I think given the relatively small and niche community making up the independent luthiery business, comparing one man's work which he himself designed is pretty hyperbolic compared to that of a patent troll.

I don't think Vik handled himself in a particularly good way, but I can understand why he's miffed as an independent with, let's face it, a small number of his instruments out in the wild.


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