# Oh crap..BUGERA is trying to get in on the TRIPLE RECTO and MARK market



## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 23, 2010)

BUGERA: TRIREC

BUGERA: MAGICIAN

Mesa fanboys are gonna shit bricks
Dance puppets...dance


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## Daemoniac (Mar 23, 2010)

If this works... AWESOME!


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 23, 2010)

Wow. Can't say I didn't see it coming. 

Wonder what they're going to set their sights on next.


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## I_infect (Mar 23, 2010)

wondering what price point these will be at, cause a mesa triple is near 2K


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## lateralus819 (Mar 23, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wow. Can't say I didn't see it coming.
> 
> Wonder what they're going to set their sights on next.




hopefully engl, diezel etc


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## Daemoniac (Mar 23, 2010)

I_infect said:


> wondering what price point these will be at, cause a mesa triple is near 2K



 If it's heaps cheaper (surely it has to be cheaper than the $5,000AUD it costs for a triple rec here in Aus), and sounds vaguely as aggressive as an actual rectifier, well, FUCK YEAH! 

EDIT: Holy shit! It says it will be $1180USD in the US  So either way it will be cheaper than a triple here in Australia... whether importing or just buying from a store.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 23, 2010)

I_infect said:


> wondering what price point these will be at, cause a mesa triple is near 2K



The MSRP is only $1179.99 USD, that's already a few hundred less then most used Rectos I see.


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## Rick (Mar 23, 2010)

That is fucking hilarious.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 23, 2010)

no short head version = fail.


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Mar 23, 2010)

Good news for us in the UK.


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## I_infect (Mar 23, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The MSRP is only $1179.99 USD, that's already a few hundred less then most used Rectos I see.




the B-52 AT100 was $550 i think? Was that supposed to be a Trip rec clone?

I can't see paying anywhere near $1000 for a Bugera with their reputation... $600ish, maybe. I can't justify 2K for a mesa though either

Not saying mesa isn't worth it... it's just a big chunk of change for me.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 23, 2010)

I like the look of the TRIREC. It's Peavey meets Engl. Tube sockets still too close together..no KT88s for y'all.


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## I_infect (Mar 23, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I like the look of the TRIREC. It's Peavey meets Engl.



Definitely Fireball-ish, 3120-like


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 23, 2010)

I_infect said:


> Definitely Fireball-ish, 3120-like



I thought the exact same thing


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 23, 2010)

I_infect said:


> the B-52 AT100 was $550 i think? Was that supposed to be a Trip rec clone?
> 
> I can't see paying anywhere near $1000 for a Bugera with their reputation... $600ish, maybe. I can't justify 2K for a mesa though either
> 
> Not saying mesa isn't worth it... it's just a big chunk of change for me.



Well, the street price will be far lower for sure. For instance the MSRP for the Bugera 6262 is $8100, but it goes for $550 new in stores. Based on that it'll probably only cost about $650 to $700 street.


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## Sepultorture (Mar 23, 2010)

wow did they ever rip off the rect with this one, wow

does this company copy the circuits too? i hope not


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 23, 2010)

Sepultorture said:


> wow did they ever rip off the rect with this one, wow
> 
> does this company copy the circuits too? i hope not



Hell I hope SO. Rectos and Marks for everyone. I'd buy the recto one just to have it hanging around


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Mar 23, 2010)

Sepultorture said:


> wow did they ever rip off the rect with this one, wow
> 
> does this company copy the circuits too? i hope not


Pretty much everything out there is a clone of something, I don't really see peoples problem with Bugera.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 23, 2010)

Sepultorture said:


> wow did they ever rip off the rect with this one, wow
> 
> does this company copy the circuits too? i hope not



I think it's more of reverse engineering then just copying specs. I believe the exact specs to some of these amps are copyrighted/patented, so there's no way they'd open themselves up to that kind of litigation.


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## BlindingLight7 (Mar 23, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> no short head version = fail.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## AeonSolus (Mar 23, 2010)

I just gotta say...What took them so long?  I want a shorthead magician sooo bad


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## Key_Maker (Mar 23, 2010)

Holy Crap! 

Although i'm not a fan of Bugera amps (i have tried'em all), this is a nice surprise


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## Demeyes (Mar 23, 2010)

I could totally see myself getting one of these. Mesa gear is just too expensive here, just about everyone I've seen with a mesa head here has had an imported one plugged into a transformer. I loved the triple rectifier I played through before so something similar but affordable is great. Lets hope they don't mess these up with the same QC issues as the early peavey knock offs.


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## lefty robb (Mar 23, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Pretty much everything out there is a clone of something, I don't really see peoples problem with Bugera.


 
Seriously, Randall Smith made his start messing with Fender designs. I'm with everyone else, if these sound sick for 1/2 the price, go for it.


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## phantom911 (Mar 23, 2010)

maybe this will push Mesa into lowering their prices a little...Probably not though


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## Spondus (Mar 23, 2010)

Had I not recently bought a mesa, I'd love this.


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## Thep (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, I just found my next amp

edit: damnit, no head version of the magician...nevermind then


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## traditional (Mar 23, 2010)

Looking forward to trying one of these out and seeing if they're the real deal.
If so, hello NAD.........and not eating properly for a month or so. =D


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## kmanick (Mar 23, 2010)

built in Variac from 1 to 100 watts??
god damn , I may need to buy myself a recto clone now (if they're cheap enough)


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## Isan (Mar 24, 2010)

DAMN IT


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## TMM (Mar 24, 2010)

Sweet, I'll pick one of these up used from someone if they don't like it.


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## Ben.Last (Mar 24, 2010)

Had I not just switched over to a GSP1101 rack setup, I'd be all over the trirec.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 24, 2010)

Wow, these would actually make sense to get in North America considering the price difference will probably be significant in comparison to used Mesa's


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## signalgrey (Mar 24, 2010)

reminds me of the Fortin Meatball a lil


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## 13point9 (Mar 24, 2010)

mmmmm interesting id def have to try them out properly before hand to pass judgement...


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## drenzium (Mar 24, 2010)

headshell is very ENGLish & mesa's are ridiculously expensive in australia = i may give this a try when it comes out.

i've had very good results with my bugera 6262 and getting a peavey-ish tone, so there is some hope for this


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## UltimaWeapon (Mar 24, 2010)

finally they made something that looks good XD, but too bad that tolex looks like a wraped shoping bag. Hopefuly it would sound good as a Mesa


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 24, 2010)

Yeah, for a fraction of the price of a Mesa, what do you expect though?


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## robotsatemygma (Mar 24, 2010)

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MrMcSick (Mar 24, 2010)

Sweet. Can't wait till I can find 1 of these used for like $300-400.


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## Sebastian (Mar 24, 2010)

Rick said:


> That is fucking hilarious.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

MrMcSick said:


> Sweet. Can't wait till I can find 1 of these used for like $300-400.


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## budda (Mar 24, 2010)

Awesome! I'll test drive one of those.

If a used one sells for $600 or so, I know what 2 heads I'm recommending to my little brother hehe


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## sami (Mar 24, 2010)

very tempted at the Trirec....ugh


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## george galatis (Mar 24, 2010)

phantom911 said:


> maybe this will push Mesa into lowering their prices a little...Probably not though



 mesa are too expensive! by the way behringer owns bugera and behringer products are really cheap....although bugera starts to sells more and more and these amps is a good step for guitar players


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## TimothyLeary (Mar 24, 2010)

I want.. oh yeah i want


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## Harry (Mar 24, 2010)

Interesting news indeed.
My beef with the Magician is that it only comes in combo form and the stock Bugera speakers are not particularly great, at least not with the other high gain amps they have.
Who knows, maybe they will voice well with the Magician, but I guess that remains to be seen


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## TMM (Mar 24, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> the price difference will probably be significant in comparison to used Mesa's



I don't know about that, at least if you're comparing new Bugera vs used Mesa. You can find a used Dual for $1k or less ($US ) if you're patient, so with a slightly above $1k price point on the new Bugera, I'd still rather the 'real thing'. That said, when these start going used for $500-$600, I'm all over it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

Harry said:


> Interesting news indeed.
> My beef with the Magician is that it only comes in combo form and the stock Bugera speakers are not particularly great, at least not with the other high gain amps they have.
> Who knows, maybe they will voice well with the Magician, but I guess that remains to be seen



Yeah I was kinda bummed about that too, though, they may release a Magician head in the near future.

As for the speaker, for the roughly $750 or less this combo will cost, it might be worth it to splurge the extra $100 or so for a single high quality 12" speaker. 

Though, if I find one of these for cheap after release, I'd probably pull a "Troyguitar" and make my own head shell.



TMM said:


> I don't know about that, at least if you're comparing new Bugera vs used Mesa. You can find a used Dual for $1k or less ($US ) if you're patient, so with a slightly above $1k price point on the new Bugera, I'd still rather the 'real thing'. That said, when these start going used for $500-$600, I'm all over it.



Keep in mind, the $1180 figure posted earlier is not the street price, but the MSRP. The Trirec is probably going to street for around $700, while that's still very close to a used Mesa, it makes it a bit more tempting. 

Not to mention, that'll probably push the used prices down into the $400 range.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 24, 2010)

Yeah, definitely more tempting when comparing Peavey to Bugera over here.


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## 13point9 (Mar 24, 2010)

Im intrigued Ive never tried a Bugera and always had a bit of a meh response to them due to the Behringer association, but are they actually good then? ive just looked around to find loads of really positive reviews about them, so at this point im eating my prior assumptions hahaha

(clean tone reviews would be of great help  *checks youtube*)


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

13point9 said:


> Im intrigued Ive never tried a Bugera and always had a bit of a meh response to them due to the Behringer association, but are they actually good then? ive just looked around to find loads of really positive reviews about them, so at this point im eating my prior assumptions hahaha
> 
> (clean tone reviews would be of great help  *checks youtube*)



Basically, for the price Bugera's are really nice. Though, from what I've seen (or heard rather) the stock tubes are pretty meh. A guy I jammed with recently has a Bugera 333 and 6262 and they sound great with a set of high quality tubes.

As for reliability, the original runs of Bugera amps had a fairly steady failure rate, but it seems that's been fully worked out.


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## SnowfaLL (Mar 24, 2010)

It is interesting, if they made the "Magician" into a shorthead/rackmount version, I'd seriously consider it.

Oh well.


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Mar 24, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Basically, for the price Bugera's are really nice. Though, from what I've seen (or heard rather) the stock tubes are pretty meh. A guy I jammed with recently has a Bugera XXX


Do you mean 333XL?


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## Harry (Mar 24, 2010)

13point9 said:


> Im intrigued Ive never tried a Bugera and always had a bit of a meh response to them due to the Behringer association, but are they actually good then? ive just looked around to find loads of really positive reviews about them, so at this point im eating my prior assumptions hahaha
> 
> (clean tone reviews would be of great help  *checks youtube*)



I do believe Behringer just distributes the amps, they don't make them, so I really wouldn't worry about the association there


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Do you mean 333XL?



Hahaha, yeah my bad.


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Mar 24, 2010)

I can see where that came from, they're supposed to be Peavey XXX clones I think. But apparently they sound a fuckload better.


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## Harry (Mar 24, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> I can see where that came from, they're supposed to be Peavey XXX clones I think. But apparently they sound a fuckload better.



333 = XXX clone
333XL = JSX clone
Voiced a little differently as one would expect and the 333XL has a few more features


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## tacotiklah (Mar 24, 2010)

Given the fact that I love the sound of my B-52 AT-212, and that I kinda want something with a bit better build quality, I will have to check these out. I'd be lying my ass off if I said I wasn't stoked for this.

The Magician certainly looks interesting as well. With a quick extra $100-150, you can throw a v30 in there and be set.


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## JPhoenix19 (Mar 24, 2010)

BLASPHEMY!!!



Oh, for the record, even though it's called a TriRec, it's actually a Dual Recto clone (two rectifier tubes and 100 watts).

I'd definately like to try one, but I'm not expecting much, to be honest.


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## george galatis (Mar 24, 2010)

Greece &#8364; 951.00 EUR
MSRP incl. 19% VAT*
Boutique-Style 100-Watt 3-Channel Valve Amplifier Head with Tri-Mode Rectifier, Reverb and Varipower

WHAT?????????????????????


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## K-Roll (Mar 24, 2010)

funny but has anyone noticed Bugera mentions the 'simulclass' term? this actually is a patent by mesa and i think Mesa could sue them for this.. if not for copying their circuits, but for this specific thing - yes.. they can..


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

K-Roll said:


> funny but has anyone noticed Bugera mentions the 'simulclass' term? this actually is a patent by mesa and i think Mesa could sue them for this.. if not for copying their circuits, but for this specific thing - yes.. they can..



Where is it mentioned? I tried finding the term on both the Magician and TriRec product descriptions and couldn't find the term "simulclass".


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## K-Roll (Mar 24, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Where is it mentioned? I tried finding the term on both the Magician and TriRec product descriptions and couldn't find the term "simulclass".




i fcked up.. that's when i tend to do things quickly, multitasking is not my cup of tea.. i did not mean the term itself but they pretty much described that their amps use the simulclass technology - Multi-Class mode features either Class-A or combined Class-A/AB, blending Class-A purity with the raw power punch of Pentode Class-AB
i mean this system


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

K-Roll said:


> i fcked up.. that's when i tend to do things quickly, multitasking is not my cup of tea.. i did not mean the term itself but they pretty much described that their amps use the simulclass technology - Multi-Class mode features either Class-A or combined Class-A/AB, blending Class-A purity with the raw power punch of Pentode Class-AB
> i mean this system



Gotcha. 

Though, as long as they're doing it in a way that's different _enough_ from Randall Smith's design, I don't see them getting in to much hot water.


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## raximkoron (Mar 24, 2010)

I_infect said:


> the B-52 AT100 was $550 i think? Was that supposed to be a Trip rec clone?
> 
> I can't see paying anywhere near $1000 for a Bugera with their reputation... $600ish, maybe. I can't justify 2K for a mesa though either
> 
> Not saying mesa isn't worth it... it's just a big chunk of change for me.




I wouldn't say it was a triple recto clone... the logo of the amp is pretty close, and it uses a 5AR4 rectifier tube, but differences abound after that.

For one, it's a 100W head which puts it in dual recto territory, power wise. The voicing is much different, it lacks the testicular fortitude of a recto, doesn't have a fussy effects loop, etc.


Not sure what everybody's deal is with Bugera. Everybody copied everybody back in the day. Ibanez copying guitars, everybody under the sun copying and modifying the SLO100 circuit. I say if it's legal, then great, it will generate some much needed competition in the sector.


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## Galius (Mar 24, 2010)

Interesting indeed. But im curious as to why the previous Bugera clones are dissapearing. I dont see many online or in stores for sale anymore.


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## MrMcSick (Mar 24, 2010)

ghstofperdition said:


> Given the fact that I love the sound of my B-52 AT-212, and that I kinda want something with a bit better build quality, I will have to check these out. I'd be lying my ass off if I said I wasn't stoked for this.


 
When I was shopping for a 212 tube combo acouple years ago they had the b52 and a 333xl at guitar center for the same price. I opted for the b52 for acouple reasons. First before you even play them you'll notice the b52 had vinyl covering and the 333 had crappy tolex. b52 had metal knobs 333 had plastic. b52 had a metal footswitch 333 plastic. b52 had a rectifier tube along with tube reverb and effects loop 333 did not. b52 cab is made of 13 ply birch 333 is not. b52 came with casters, 333 did not. b52 came with 100watt speakers that have some of the biggest magnets I've ever seen on guitar speakers. Also on the back of my b52 is says Designed by Bruce Egnator even though I am aware of the cheap ass chinese parts used including the output transformers. I actually had a friend who fried 1 of these and he said he got a replacement hammond output trans and it sounded phenominal and he has owned almost every amp you can think of.

Next i played through them. b52's clean is almost fenderish, amazingly warm jazzy and punchy. 333 regular clean with nothing to get excited about. b52 crunch channel was straight cranked vintage tube crunch, no way to mistake that beautifully saturated poweramp grit. 333 was nothing special here as well. b52 distortion basically sounded like a triple rec to me with loads of gain and great harmonics. 333 had a heavier distortion sound almost 5150 ish compaired to the b52. I was truely divided here. The one major plus for me with the 333xl was that it had a noise gate, the b52 is pretty noisy even when not playing. The b52 already had the fan installed that revised the overheating problems they had so no worries here. The b52 also had a footswitchable tube driven fx loop with levels on both in and out. I've heard complaints about both of these amps stock tubes. b52 came with stock sovtek 5881's and the first 2 12ax7's are electro harmonix ev tubes, rest are chinese. Not sure what the 333 comes with but at least the b52 had some name brand.

I am definetly surprised and even want to get acouple different bugera's since they are emulating just about any mainstream amp you could want. I understand that the cheap stuff like tolex and plastic stuff is a trade off for having the sound of an amp for half the price. All im saying is buy one if thats all you can afford but the original high cost amp will be built alot better.


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## Key_Maker (Mar 24, 2010)

It Says at the end of the page:

_This product is currently not available for sale in the United States and Canada pending verification of compliance with applicable technical standards and regulations._

So...


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## snuif09 (Mar 24, 2010)

someone wanting to trade my mesa dual cal 50 for a trirec

im thinking about getting one maybe going to sell my mesa for a fake mesa =D


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## cow 7 sig (Mar 24, 2010)

cool,so i have a real 2 channel dual from the 90s,then i can grab a MARK V clone for next to fuck all.sounds like a steel if the tones are as close to the real deal.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 24, 2010)

Key_Maker said:


> It Says at the end of the page:
> 
> _This product is currently not available for sale in the United States and Canada pending verification of compliance with applicable technical standards and regulations._
> 
> So...



Same thing happened in the beginning, when Bugera first came out with their Peavey clones. 

Apparently they like jumping the gun and putting products on their site before they're official cleared to be sold. 

Though, I bet these will sell FAR better outside the US where even used Mesa's are big bucks.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 24, 2010)

Even used Peavey's are big bucks overseas


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## 13point9 (Mar 24, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Even used Peavey's are big bucks overseas



EVERYTHING is more expensive overseas, seriously considering a guitar buying holiday in the US if I ever save enough money lol, barely any clothes just a hard case filled with soft cases (making sure I put tags on al the bags) xD


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## groph (Mar 24, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I like the look of the TRIREC. It's Peavey meets Engl. Tube sockets still too close together..no KT88s for y'all.


 

I kinda thought the same thing, it's like a cross between an SE and a 3120 or something.

This is a cool amp it seems, doesn't have to sound identical to a Rectifier or anything, but if it's an amp that provides "that kind" of tone for heaps cheaper, hell yeah!

Still, they should have given it a different name. Trirec is pretty obvious who they're ripping off from. That's my only gripe. I never really liked Bugera's logo either, so that's my other only gripe, but that hardly matters.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 24, 2010)

raximkoron said:


> I wouldn't say it was a triple recto clone... the logo of the amp is pretty close, and it uses a 5AR4 rectifier tube, but differences abound after that.
> 
> For one, it's a 100W head which puts it in dual recto territory, power wise. The voicing is much different, it lacks the testicular fortitude of a recto, doesn't have a fussy effects loop, etc.



You've played one before?


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## PnKnG (Mar 24, 2010)

I might actually get one of the Magican's once I got the money. Maybe they will be available at the beginning of May when there is the Fuzz Guitar Show (sort of Swedish version of NAMM and Musik Messe).

I used to have a Mark III a couple of years ago but had to sell it when I was low on money. Never found one used again and both new and used Mesa's costs shit load of money here in Sweden. As long as the Magican sounds somewhat like a Mark, I'm sold.

Also if I get one I'm tempted to mod the Combo into a Head and get a nice used Cab for it.


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## raximkoron (Mar 24, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> You've played one before?



I wasn't referring to the Trirec or Magician, but I own a B-52 AT-100 head that I was giving my two cents for that I quoted at the top of my post. Sorry for any confusion there


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 24, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Good news for us in the UK.





£828 for the TriRec and £727 for the Magician - I am tempted.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 24, 2010)

raximkoron said:


> I wasn't referring to the Trirec or Magician, but I own a B-52 AT-100 head that I was giving my two cents for that I quoted at the top of my post. Sorry for any confusion there



Oh, lol. I was gonna say..


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## Daemoniac (Mar 24, 2010)

I tried a B-52 once based on that "it's a rectifier but 1/4 the price" line... Right after I tried the B-52 i tried an *actual* Mesa triple rec... no comparison. At all. Maybe there was something different about the B-52 i was trying, but seriously, it had NOTHING on the Mesa 

Seeing as how the Bugera is more closely (read: identically?) based on the Mesa design, i'm sure it will have more balls to it


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## scottro202 (Mar 24, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Pretty much everything out there is a clone of something, I don't really see peoples problem with Bugera.



Yep. I've heard before that the Marshall Plexi was based off of a Fender Bassman circuit (I'm not sure if it's true, that's just what I've heard.

EDIT:



> From Wikipedia:
> 
> *The first few production units were engineered to be almost exactly the same as the Bassman circuit*, with US-origin transformers and military surplus 5881 power valves. The major difference however was the cabinet used, as Marshall decided to build separate amplifiers and speaker cabinets, and as they were originally intended as bass amplifiers, Marshall chose to use four 12-inch Celestion speakers in a closed-back cabinet instead of the Bassman's four 10-inch Jensen speakers in an open-back cabinet. This new amplifier, tentatively called the "Mark II", was eventually named the "JTM45" after Jim and his son Terry Marshall, and "45" as, in theory, it produced 45W of power.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Amplification

So, I'm all for it. If it sounds like it, and is accessible for my budget, hey, why not? 

EDIT2: upon reading a bit more of the article, "Plexis" weren't based off of it, but the original Marshall amps that came to be Plexis were.


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## wannabguitarist (Mar 24, 2010)

I just spent a good 2 hours jamming on my buddy's 6262 and loved every minute of it. Can't wait to try one of these


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## 13point9 (Mar 24, 2010)

ShadyDavey said:


> £828 for the TriRec and £727 for the Magician - I am tempted.



I think thats the list price off the site aswell so they may very well be even cheaper *rubs hands*

if not im gunna have to try a tri rec and put it against the Laney VH100R different amps i know but to see which one i prefer tone wise...

or fuck it all save forever and eventually get an Axe fx *decisions, decisions*


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## mrcheapyasui (Mar 25, 2010)

lol.. the magician, what an awesome name!


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## El Caco (Mar 25, 2010)

I have mixed feelings about Bugera. These look cool and I could never afford a new Mesa in Australia but I can't help but worry that Bugera is very bad for everyone in the long run.


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## JPhoenix19 (Mar 25, 2010)

s7eve said:


> ...I can't help but worry that Bugera is very bad for everyone in the long run.





*cracks open a bottle of Haterade*


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## angryman (Mar 25, 2010)

All I can say is awesome!......if these sound anything like the Mesa Triple Rec (like the 6260 did compared to the 5150) then it's great news for all us Guitarists who want that amp but could never ever afford to buy a real Mesa triple Rec.


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## budda (Mar 25, 2010)

MrMcSick said:


> When I was shopping for a 212 tube combo acouple years ago they had the b52 and a 333xl at guitar center for the same price. I opted for the b52 for acouple reasons. First before you even play them you'll notice the b52 had vinyl covering and the 333 had crappy tolex. b52 had metal knobs 333 had plastic. b52 had a metal footswitch 333 plastic. b52 had a rectifier tube along with tube reverb and effects loop 333 did not. b52 cab is made of 13 ply birch 333 is not. b52 came with casters, 333 did not. b52 came with 100watt speakers that have some of the biggest magnets I've ever seen on guitar speakers. Also on the back of my b52 is says Designed by Bruce Egnator even though I am aware of the cheap ass chinese parts used including the output transformers. I actually had a friend who fried 1 of these and he said he got a replacement hammond output trans and it sounded phenominal and he has owned almost every amp you can think of.
> 
> Next i played through them. b52's clean is almost fenderish, amazingly warm jazzy and punchy. 333 regular clean with nothing to get excited about. b52 crunch channel was straight cranked vintage tube crunch, no way to mistake that beautifully saturated poweramp grit. 333 was nothing special here as well. b52 distortion basically sounded like a triple rec to me with loads of gain and great harmonics. 333 had a heavier distortion sound almost 5150 ish compaired to the b52. I was truely divided here. The one major plus for me with the 333xl was that it had a noise gate, the b52 is pretty noisy even when not playing. The b52 already had the fan installed that revised the overheating problems they had so no worries here. The b52 also had a footswitchable tube driven fx loop with levels on both in and out. I've heard complaints about both of these amps stock tubes. b52 came with stock sovtek 5881's and the first 2 12ax7's are electro harmonix ev tubes, rest are chinese. Not sure what the 333 comes with but at least the b52 had some name brand.
> 
> I am definetly surprised and even want to get acouple different bugera's since they are emulating just about any mainstream amp you could want. I understand that the cheap stuff like tolex and plastic stuff is a trade off for having the sound of an amp for half the price. All im saying is buy one if thats all you can afford but the original high cost amp will be built alot better.



1. Peavey 5150's have plastic knobs
2. Tube rectifiers give you more "sag" - your low end is more loose
3. Orange cabs don't come with casters.
4. I hope you spent time dialing them both in, and didn't expect the same settings to work on both amps. Did you turn them up? Because it's damn hard to get "vintage crunch" (read: cranked 50W/100W amps ) at low volume.
5. I'm willing to bet that the bugera shipped with sovteks too, as that's the regular "affordable" tube amp manufacturer's tube

Build quality is definitely important, but I haven't heard any "My bugera broke" stories lately. Nor have I ever played one, or a B-52 for that matter.


----------



## conorreich (Mar 25, 2010)

Bugera solved that melted clip problem with their first run of the older amps. I am actually excited to try one of these even though i never got into Mesa.


----------



## asmegin_slayer (Mar 25, 2010)

Bugera makes good products I have to admit.. Definitely affordable. However... I still love that California tone from an American made Mesa Boogie... Regardless how expensive it is, there is this love that the workers put together in these amps... You can feel it, smell it and hear it....

Same way with the American, British and German amp makers that started their company from the ground up..


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## SnowfaLL (Mar 25, 2010)

anyone know the size of the Magician? I googled it but couldnt find it. Is it rack-mountable (short chassis mesa)? That'd be neat/tempting.


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## Andromalia (Mar 25, 2010)

Given the retarded Mesa prices in Europe this might be worth a try. Over there Mesa costs somewhat like 30%+ more than equivalent Engl quality. An Engl SE head is 2800, a road king head is...3699....
If you go inot less complex products, a triple rec is 2600ish, the new fireball is 1600.
Power amps ? The 50w Engl is 985, the mesa 50/50 is 1500. Etc, etc. Didn't check Marshall prices but they are in the Engl territory. (For same quality gear)

So if we can get decent amps with a mesa style for a decent price, I'm not against it. I will however wait to make sure Bugera QC didn't blunder once again.


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## asmegin_slayer (Mar 25, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> Given the retarded Mesa prices in Europe this might be worth a try. Over there Mesa costs somewhat like 30%+ more than equivalent Engl quality. An Engl SE head is 2800, a road king head is...3699....
> If you go inot less complex products, a triple rec is 2600ish, the new fireball is 1600.
> Power amps ? The 50w Engl is 985, the mesa 50/50 is 1500. Etc, etc. Didn't check Marshall prices but they are in the Engl territory. (For same quality gear)
> 
> So if we can get decent amps with a mesa style for a decent price, I'm not against it. I will however wait to make sure Bugera QC didn't blunder once again.



Engl here *NEW *is:
SE: $4000.00
Fireball 100: $1699.00
Powerball: $2000.00
Invader 100/150: $2600.00+

Engl here *used *is:
SE: 2800+
Fireball 100: 1200 maybe?
Powerball: 1600
Invader: 2000+

Mesa here *NEW *is:
Roadking: 2749.00
Roadster: 2000.00
Mark V: 2000.00
Dual/Triple: 1799-1899

Mesa *Used*:
Roadking: 1700-2000 
Roadking: 1200-1600
Dual/triple: 900-1300
Mark V: 1500-1800


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## MrMcSick (Mar 25, 2010)

budda said:


> 1. Peavey 5150's have plastic knobs
> 2. Tube rectifiers give you more "sag" - your low end is more loose
> 3. Orange cabs don't come with casters.
> 4. I hope you spent time dialing them both in, and didn't expect the same settings to work on both amps. Did you turn them up? Because it's damn hard to get "vintage crunch" (read: cranked 50W/100W amps ) at low volume.
> ...


 
1. I am aware that peavey's use plastic knobs. It wasn't a deal breaker but a nice touch, says something to me about build quality and their choice for components.

2. The tube rect is a tri mode rect in the b52's. You can select it to either be tube a, tube a/b or solid state. There is a noticibale difference from tube a to the other setting. It definetly sags a ton but thats awesome to have that option, if you want you just switch it to SS for tighter bass and no sag.

3. Im not sure why orange cabs don't come with casters. That would be something that would definetly weigh in on my purchase especially if it is a top of the line product. That would suck to carry it every where and to get that nice orange tolex all scratched and dirty.

4. I definetly played around with every knob on both of them, I didn't turn it up full tilt but they were at band jamming level.

5. Both of these amps had reliabilty issues when they first came out. They both resolved them but you can read about tons of people complaining about their amps dying ect.


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## Andromalia (Mar 25, 2010)

"Mesa here *NEW *is:
Roadking: 2749.00"

You have no idea of the number of swear words I had to retain from leaving my mouth in the office.


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## PnKnG (Mar 25, 2010)

MrMcSick said:


> 1. I am aware that peavey's use plastic knobs. It wasn't a deal breaker but a nice touch, says something to me about build quality and their choice for components.
> 
> 2. The tube rect is a tri mode rect in the b52's. You can select it to either be tube a, tube a/b or solid state. There is a noticibale difference from tube a to the other setting. It definetly sags a ton but thats awesome to have that option, if you want you just switch it to SS for tighter bass and no sag.
> 
> ...



1. As far as I know most Peavey's are US made. Plastic knobs or not doesn't really says anything about the quality of the gear. Specially on amps I don't get the obsession of some guys with having metal knobs. Its not like I turn them forcefully or stomp on them so it doesn't really matter to me. Its just something that is a minor detail.

3. Orange Cabs don't come with casters because casters are something that can rattle at high volume. They have a special feet design for their Cabs that give them a tighter bass respond and more definition.
If you still want to roll it around I suggest you get a road case with casters on it.

5. The problem with most people that are complaining about their amp dying are often new to tube amps and don't know how to take care of them.
And personalty I haven't heard any stories about a Bugera dying since the first run. The new one seem to be solid in quality and great "bang for bugs" amps.


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## kherman (Mar 25, 2010)

I thought this was impressive.


Hopefully the Recto Bugeras deliver like wise.


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## Key_Maker (Mar 25, 2010)

kherman said:


> I thought this was impressive.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the Recto Bugeras deliver like wise.





I tried a 1990, it's even worst than the original 900 , one of the worst amp i have ever tried, although i could get i nice clean from it, the distortion lacks of definition and was very fuzzy.


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## JPhoenix19 (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm expecting the TriRec to compare to the Dual Recto the same way the 333xl compared to the JSX when I tested them both a while back. To make a long story short I ran them both through the same cab, unplugging one and plugging in the other. I cranked them both, and tweak their knobs many many times. When upon comparing the two side-by-side, the JSX sounded better in every aspect.

I'm expecting the same here. Sure, you could buy a new TriRec for a bit less than a used Dual, but to the discerning ear that small gap in price means a considerable loss in tonal quality. That's my bit.

[/rant]


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## Daemoniac (Mar 25, 2010)

^ Here in Australia the gap between a dual rectifier and this will be infinitely more... Say this retails for $2,500AUD (the Bugera that is), that's still $2,000 cheaper than an actual Dual Rec is...


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## El Caco (Mar 25, 2010)

I expect they will sell for half that here Mischa, Most likely $1000-$1300


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## Daemoniac (Mar 25, 2010)

^ Aye, I was actually thinking that, but even so I gave it the extra little bit to play it uber safe  Either way, i'm going to give one a try


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## LordOVchaoS (Mar 26, 2010)

I love cheap amps  Bugera is no exception. Can't WAIT. Will get TRIRECT 

Although my Digitech/VHT rig now gets the most love I still love my $150 Crate Stealth  Phenomenal sounding amp! Another oldie but goodie and cheapie is coming very soon (it's a secret)

LordOVchaoS wants more cheap amps


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## Isan (Mar 26, 2010)

JPhoenix19 said:


> I'm expecting the TriRec to compare to the Dual Recto the same way the 333xl compared to the JSX when I tested them both a while back. To make a long story short I ran them both through the same cab, unplugging one and plugging in the other. I cranked them both, and tweak their knobs many many times. When upon comparing the two side-by-side, the JSX sounded better in every aspect.
> 
> I'm expecting the same here. Sure, you could buy a new TriRec for a bit less than a used Dual, but to the discerning ear that small gap in price means a considerable loss in tonal quality. That's my bit.
> 
> [/rant]


I told you once... change the tubes and the 333xl kicks the jsx's ass


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## caskettheclown (Mar 26, 2010)

OMG this makes me happy!


People saying get the real thing-for people that are poor, we are happy getting the Bugeras and we would love to get the Mesa or Peavey BUT we are BROKE!


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## snuif09 (Mar 26, 2010)

asmegin_slayer said:


> Engl here *NEW *is:
> SE: $4000.00
> Fireball 100: $1699.00
> Powerball: $2000.00
> ...



keep in mind that 4000 dollar is also around 2900 euros


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## Leon (Mar 26, 2010)

Where are they made?

If they're handbuilt in the USA, then they *might* be able to compete with Mesa's quality.


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## Key_Maker (Mar 26, 2010)

Leon said:


> Where are they made?
> 
> If they're handbuilt in the USA, then they *might* be able to compete with Mesa's quality.



Oh men, bugera amps are made in China and they are budget amps, in all aspects. They have some nice clones out there, not as good as the original (specially its parts) but they do a very good job sounding loud


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## Metal_Late (Mar 29, 2010)

Isan said:


> I told you once... change the tubes and the 333xl kicks the jsx's ass



I did. Four Svetlana EL34 with Tungsol 12ax7s. My sound improved ten times upper than it was! I´am sure that i´am not going to sell it.

If trirec is even better than 333xl for a sound, i´ll think of purchasing it.


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## onefingersweep (Mar 29, 2010)

This is really cool, if they make them as close as the other ones they will definitely be worth it if the price is about the same.


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## snuif09 (Mar 30, 2010)

any info on when its going for sale??

im so wanting to try this amp


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

snuif09 said:


> any info on when its going for sale??
> 
> im so wanting to try this amp



According to the site, they don't even have FCC approval to sell them in the US yet. So sometime after that, they should start shipping.


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## snuif09 (Mar 30, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> According to the site, they don't even have FCC approval to sell them in the US yet. So sometime after that, they should start shipping.



well im in europe so thats the first thing im lucky with lol yea and im damn lucky that i bought a mesa for 800 bucks

think im going to sell it for a magician or a trirec when more is clear if they are pure shit ill stick to the DC =)

thanks


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

snuif09 said:


> well im in europe so thats the first thing im lucky with lol yea and im damn lucky that i bought a mesa for 800 bucks
> 
> think im going to sell it for a magician or a trirec when more is clear if they are pure shit ill stick to the DC =)
> 
> thanks



Ah, gotcha, I completely forgot to see where you were from.  

You could probably start seeing them soon since Musikmesse ended.


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## Icecold (Apr 3, 2010)

I just went from 6 to Midnight. I already own a 6262 and I love it, can't wait to check out the Trirec!


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## swayman (Apr 3, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Same thing happened in the beginning, when Bugera first came out with their Peavey clones.
> 
> Apparently they like jumping the gun and putting products on their site before they're official cleared to be sold.
> 
> Though, I bet these will sell FAR better outside the US where even used Mesa's are big bucks.



Example, there's a store not far from me selling both Peavey & Bugera.

The JSX 120W is selling for $2995 AUD, the Bugera 333XL is $849 AUD...


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## traditional (Apr 7, 2010)

Good news for the Australian guys like myself on the forum, the Australian RRP has just been announced on these things;
TriRec - $1499
Magician - $1299

Surprising, I would've expected that since the Magician is a combo, that it would've been more expensive.
Also, note that this is RRP and knowing most of the Australian dealers around here (Melbourne) it'll look something like this;
TriRec - $1200 - $1300
Magician - $1100

Don't take my word on that though, that's just going by what they normally take off Bugera's. (Y)


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## swayman (Apr 7, 2010)

traditional said:


> Good news for the Australian guys like myself on the forum, the Australian RRP has just been announced on these things;
> TriRec - $1499
> Magician - $1299
> 
> ...



So according to the RRP on the Bugera site for the 333XL compared to the actual price stores are selling them for, the Trirec should be about the $1200 if not a little less...


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## eaeolian (Apr 7, 2010)

Leon said:


> Where are they made?
> 
> If they're handbuilt in the USA, then they *might* be able to compete with Mesa's quality.



Uh, yeah. You're not going to buy anything this complicated handbuilt in the US at that retail price point. Sheesh, Leon.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Apr 7, 2010)

If their prices are in line with their Peavey clones, I'd be interested in picking one up, especially once they start hitting the used market. Like I said, the gap in pricing between Mesa and their current amps is enough to justify purchasing one.


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## theo (May 13, 2010)

So Im gonna sell my 333XL and buy of these I think.
What are the tonal differences between a mark and rectifier series? I WAS gonna save for a mark V... but then I saw this and that idea went *poof*


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## TemjinStrife (May 13, 2010)

theo said:


> So Im gonna sell my 333XL and buy of these I think.
> What are the tonal differences between a mark and rectifier series? I WAS gonna save for a mark V... but then I saw this and that idea went *poof*



They're pretty dramatic, and tend to polarize Mesa lovers. Marks have a very saturated/smooth preamp, while rectos are a little brighter and a lot punchier, and really come into their own once the power tubes start working a little. Petrucci is an excellent example of Mark tone in a metal context.

I'd recommend trying them out before deciding between such a different flavor of Mesa.


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## theo (May 13, 2010)

Im a huge fan of petruccis, hence the mark V gas.
Off the top of your head, do you know of any bands who play with triple recs?
I wish they were making the mark in a head as well as combo


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## cow 7 sig (May 13, 2010)

pricing in AUSTRALIA.
AU$ 1099.99 AUD 6262 head
AU$ 999.99 AUD 6260 head
AU$ 1199.99 AUD 333XL head
AU$ 1099.99 AUD 333 head
AU$ 1299.99 AUD MAGICIAN
AU$ 1499.99 AUD TRIREC


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## theo (May 13, 2010)

cow 7 sig said:


> pricing in AUSTRALIA.
> AU$ 1099.99 AUD 6262 head
> AU$ 999.99 AUD 6260 head
> AU$ 1199.99 AUD 333XL head
> ...


 
My local dealer sold me a new 333xl head for $800
which I hope means I can get the trirec or magician for a fair bit less than the RRP


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## cow 7 sig (May 13, 2010)

then he did him self out of dollars and you scored a deal.
it was going to cost me 800 for the 6260 back when i had thought about getting one.


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## theo (May 13, 2010)

cow 7 sig said:


> then he did him self out of dollars and you scored a deal.
> one.



considering the amount of money I spend there.. he has more than made up for his loss


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## snuif09 (Jul 7, 2010)

so time for threadnomancy

any new info on the release already i googled but didnt see anything useful


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

snuif09 said:


> so time for threadnomancy
> 
> any new info on the release already i googled but didnt see anything useful



According to the Bugera website they still haven't passes FCC compliance. At least in the US. Perhaps they're waiting for them to be available for all regions.


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

Nom. I have a soldering iron. I dont care if it breaks if it saves me a 1000$. I wont gig with it anyways.


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## snuif09 (Jul 7, 2010)

rectifryer said:


> Nom. I have a soldering iron. I dont care if it breaks if it saves me a 1000$. I wont gig with it anyways.



+1

and i can mod the shit out of it without fucking up 3000euros of amplifier


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## atguitarist (Jul 7, 2010)

I_infect said:


> the B-52 AT100 was $550 i think? Was that supposed to be a Trip rec clone?
> 
> I can't see paying anywhere near $1000 for a Bugera with their reputation... $600ish, maybe. I can't justify 2K for a mesa though either
> 
> Not saying mesa isn't worth it... it's just a big chunk of change for me.


 
I've played a B-52 AT-100 on a number of occassions and they weren't bad for the price. Quality was so-so but overall not too bad an amp.

But $1179USD for the Bugera?...I dunno about that. I


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

atguitarist said:


> I've played a B-52 AT-100 on a number of occassions and they weren't bad for the price. Quality was so-so but overall not too bad an amp.
> 
> But $1179USD for the Bugera?...I dunno about that. I



The MSRP and Street Price are very different. Chances are it'll be closer to $600 at stores, based on the other Bugera amps.

According to that site, the 6263 should be $809.99, but in reality they are available from major retailers for just $549.95.


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## snuif09 (Jul 7, 2010)

some stores have it on pre order for around 700


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## jcbakz (Jul 7, 2010)

shit im glad Im holding on my money. I was going to buy a mesa im glad I waited! when is it gonna be in the stores? the head has that mesa-randal type of look


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## skeletor88 (Jul 8, 2010)

This is fucking awesome. I want audio clips or vids!!!

If I got one I wouldn't be gigging with it either so it's winning me over so far.


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## misingonestring (Jul 8, 2010)

Holy shit, those images are Gigantic...


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## Rashputin (Jul 9, 2010)

Is this even legal? Can they do this?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 9, 2010)

Rashputin said:


> Is this even legal? Can they do this?



They haven't hit the market know, so I guess we'll see. 

They certainly didn't have a problem making Marshall and Peavey clones.


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## coldandhomeless (Jul 9, 2010)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Pretty much everything out there is a clone of something, I don't really see peoples problem with Bugera.


Carvin V3 is no clone! bugera's problem is that they use cheap shit for parts...it is behringer with a crackpipe in its mouth... i had a 333xl and less than a month later it died a horrible flaming death!! and the whole time it made hellicopter sounds, (didnt even need a cellphone ontop of it) IT WAS TOTAL SHIT!!! maybe if they work out the bugs before releasing it to the public, and test the shit for 40+ hours... better yet... make an original design and have it work long enough to get some dust on it... wishful thinking but still unlikely... sorry but you get what u pay for...


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## FearComplex (Jul 9, 2010)

Spending the equivalent of $3000 in europe on a Mesa Triple Rectifier and it not blowing up on you doesn't necessarily mean you got what you pay for. It could serve me beer and clean my room and I'd still be ripped off.


----------



## snuif09 (Jul 9, 2010)

FearComplex said:


> Spending the equivalent of $3000 in europe on a Mesa Triple Rectifier and it not blowing up on you doesn't necessarily mean you got what you pay for. It could serve me beer and clean my room and I'd still be ripped off.


hell yes.

and some people can take care of their own amps and if a capacitor blows up i can replace it myself anyways lol and a new cap is like 10 euros for a good one


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 9, 2010)

From what I've seen and heard it seems Bugera has worked out a lot of bugs in there early runs. Not saying they're up to par with what they're emulating, but they aren't the "fire hazard" they once were. 

I have buddy who loved his 6260, and it sounds just about as good as my old 5150 did after getting re-tubed. He's had it for six months and plays shows regularly, and has yet to have any issues. Back in AZ I jammed with a guy who had the 333XL and 6262 and loved them to death. He admitted to getting a bad first run model, but after it was replaced for free he had zero issues, and that was a year or so ago. 

Honestly, they're so cheap bringing a second around, to a show, for backup isn't out of the question.


----------



## TemjinStrife (Jul 9, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, they're so cheap bringing a second around, to a show, for backup isn't out of the question.



Okay, that's kind of a ridiculous statement 

Even as a bass player, bringing a second $500 15 lb head in a carry case as a backup is a pain in the ass, let alone a 50-lb heavy-ass box full of tubes.

And for two of them, just buy the real thing.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 9, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> Okay, that's kind of a ridiculous statement
> 
> Even as a bass player, bringing a second $500 15 lb head in a carry case as a backup is a pain in the ass, let alone a 50-lb heavy-ass box full of tubes.
> 
> And for two of them, just buy the real thing.



That's easy to say in the US where you can pick up a Recto for under $1000. While in Europe you'd have to pay as much as three times that. 

I wasn't being very serious (should of used my old buddy ""), but I figured that extreme example would hammer home the point of "they're so fucking cheap". 

Though, I still say they're a lot more reliable than many think, especially now that Bugera/Behringer has improved with the later batches.


----------



## Ben.Last (Jul 9, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Though, I still say they're a lot more reliable than many think, especially now that Bugera/Behringer has improved with the later batches.



This. People would rather just believe internet "stories" than do actual research though, apparently.


----------



## Bekanor (Jul 9, 2010)

I was thinking about buying a Magician to run as a dedicated clean and lead channel and using my recto just for rhythms but the fates smiled on me and somehow I managed to score myself a Mark V. 

Which is good because as someone else of wisdom said, no short head = fail.


----------



## iff (Jul 10, 2010)

Lern2swim said:


> This. People would rather just believe internet "stories" than do actual research though, apparently.



Except that internet research only leads to the disaster stories.


----------



## drenzium (Jul 10, 2010)

lol, all the people in here talking shit about bugera either haven't tried one or just unluckily got a bad one. they are solid amps, i use them, the other guitarist in my bands uses them, (me a 6262, him a 333XL).

i guarantee 90% of the haters haven't even plugged into one, everyone is just going for a ride on the bandwagon with no serious knowledge about it.

they work perfectly, they sound on par with if not the same as the amps they are trying to copy, without having to kick you in the balls pricewise as Peavey amps tend to do.


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## Mop (Jul 10, 2010)

This is just me, but I'd rather pick up a 2nd hand recto/5150/whatever than rely on a bugera clone. I've seen pics of bugera guts and read/been told first hand how fast lots of them break down to know to stay the hell away.

Why bother trying an amp with a reputation for being an unreliable piece of shit if you can pick the real deal up 2nd hand for a pretty similar price?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 10, 2010)

Mop said:


> This is just me, but I'd rather pick up a 2nd hand recto/5150/whatever than rely on a bugera clone. I've seen pics of bugera guts and read/been told first hand how fast lots of them break down to know to stay the hell away.
> 
> Why bother trying an amp with a reputation for being an unreliable piece of shit if you can pick the real deal up 2nd hand for a pretty similar price?



I guess it's priced for those where even the used unit is significantly more expensive, such as many places in Europe and Asia. If a real Recto goes for the equivalent of $3500 new, and $2000 used a roughly $800 amp is going to look a lot more attractive at a young or broke musician. 

Folks, these aren't being marketed to those who can afford more expensive amps, just like Epiphones aren't marketed to those who buy Gibsons, but those who want Gibsons, but can only afford the cheaper equivalent.


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 10, 2010)

Mop said:


> This is just me, but I'd rather pick up a 2nd hand recto/5150/whatever than rely on a bugera clone. I've seen pics of bugera guts and read/been told first hand how fast lots of them break down to know to stay the hell away.
> 
> Why bother trying an amp with a reputation for being an unreliable piece of shit if you can pick the real deal up 2nd hand for a pretty similar price?



bugera had issues when they first came out,thats no secret.they have since sorted out there Q and A and there are very few bugera amps that fail now days,on par with just about all amp makers.
here in AUST even second hand (real deal)amps(mesa,peavey)are still a fuck load of coin,so to pick up something that is similar in tone for far less is not a bad thing at all.dont bag it if you have not tried it.if you can afford the real deal then good for you,if you cant(and not everyone can)these are a fine substitue


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## Ben.Last (Jul 11, 2010)

nomop said:


> Except that internet research only leads to the disaster stories.



Well, first, no, it doesn't. There's plenty of accounts of Bugera amps working perfectly well. 

Second, I said "real research." Internet research isn't exactly what I meant.


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## Harry (Jul 11, 2010)

cow 7 sig said:


> bugera had issues when they first came out,thats no secret.they have since sorted out there Q and A and there are very few bugera amps that fail now days,on par with just about all amp makers.
> here in AUST even second hand (real deal)amps(mesa,peavey)are still a fuck load of coin,so to pick up something that is similar in tone for far less is not a bad thing at all.dont bag it if you have not tried it.if you can afford the real deal then good for you,if you cant(and not everyone can)these are a fine substitue



Pretty much.
A second hand Dual Recto still goes for about 3 grand in Aus and I've never seen a used 5150 that was as cheap as a brand new 6260 in Melbourne


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## Mop (Jul 11, 2010)

Either you guys in oz are exaggerating prices or you should move to NZ  A dual recto is NZ $3.8k new here (AU $3k). 2nd hand right now on trademe (NZ's ebay) there's 2 dual rectos for under $2k NZ. 5150 heads frequently go around the $1k NZ mark (most I'd pay would be 1100). I just sold my 5150 212 combo for 1.3k NZD and picked up a rectoverb head for 1.5k NZD. There was a very nice mark iv head a week or so ago for 2.5k NZ. 

It's widely known bugera were cutting a ridiculous amount of corners to begin with. Have they significantly raised the retail prices since then? If not then they're probably still building them the same way, if they'd suddenly started using decent quality components and putting them together well they'd be forced to charge you more.
Imo you definitely get what you pay for, people say "get a bugera, they're just as good as a -- but less than half the price" but I'm sorry that's just bullshit. It might sound similar but it sure isn't built to the same level, I don't need to own one for any length of time to know that.


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## Andromalia (Jul 11, 2010)

We're not exxagerating, Mesa prices in Europe are retarded. Used follow the same trend since someone had to buy it new one day.If we could get duals for 1000$ they'd be all over the place. Hence the success of Engl over here (german), which is less expensive for the same quality level. And is more expensive than mesa in the US.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2010)

Mop said:


> It's widely known bugera were cutting a ridiculous amount of corners to begin with. Have they significantly raised the retail prices since then? If not then they're probably still building them the same way, if they'd suddenly started using decent quality components and putting them together well they'd be forced to charge you more.



Huh? 

Just because you pay more doesn't mean you're getting more in every case. How much do you think amp components cost? The difference in price from the bottom of the barrel caps to the best of the best is almost non-existent when buying wholesale. Also, automated assembly lines don't care what components they use, changing a few wouldn't really cause any discord. If their amps were dying, it would be in their best interest to fix them without increasing price.


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## brodjentle (Jul 11, 2010)

phantom911 said:


> maybe this will push Mesa into lowering their prices a little...Probably not though



that would be pretty damn awesome however it just wnt happen cuz mesas ar e just higher quality than the bugeras and shit not saying the bugeras don't sound mean it's just there life expectancy sucks


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## Ben.Last (Jul 11, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Huh?
> 
> Just because you pay more doesn't mean you're getting more in every case. How much do you think amp components cost? The difference in price from the bottom of the barrel caps to the best of the best is almost non-existent when buying wholesale. Also, automated assembly lines don't care what components they use, changing a few wouldn't really cause any discord. If their amps were dying, it would be in their best interest to fix them without increasing price.



But it's so much easier to make false assumptions and add pretend knowledge than it is to use actual logic like you just did. 


Of course, to go one step further, considering that probably 95% of the issues that the early models were having were due only to them clipping wires to the mobo rather than soldering it they probably saved money from fixing the issue (solder being less expensive than wiring harnesses)

Another probable 4% of the issues being due to the amps being sent out with incorrect bias settings could be corrected by... well... people knowing what the hell they're doing when they get tube amps.


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## Mop (Jul 11, 2010)

Please don't accuse me of making false assumptions, I seriously looked into bugera amps and ran a mile. I saved for a couple more months and bought a 2nd hand 6505 which I had zero issues with and recently sold for the same price I got it for over a year previous. If I got the bugera I'm willing to bet I'd have had to take it back and even if I didn't I'd still be out of pocket when I sold it (if anyone would buy it off me that is).

There's a fair bit of price difference in quality vs. shit components, especially the hardware. Not to mention the difference in building something to last with skilled labour vs. whatever trained monkeys bugera use roll stuff out as cheaply as possible. Do you seriously think companies like mesa charge more just for the name? I'm not suggesting it makes up the whole difference in price, but from what I've seen bugera's components and construction methods in general are not on par with the likes of mesa.

I'll explain my "false assumptions" using a couple of pics, see if you can guess which is the boogie and which is the bugera. 










You might notice one has pathetic little pots mounted on a pcb with plastic extensions on them out to the knobs. One has quality pots fixed to the chassis and wired directly. Perhaps you might also notice that tube sockets, jacks and everything else on one is fixed to a pcb, while on the other they are chassis mounted and wired in the more traditional (typically longer lasting) manner. In addition to the superior hardware and construction, I'd put money on the board components being higher quality on one than the other, although it is difficult to see from these small photos. 
Which do you think will last longer/be more reliable? Which do you think is more easily serviceable if something should wear out in a few years time (if it even lasts that long)? Which do you think cost significantly more to produce?

Sorry for the long post but that's all I've got to say here, clearly I disagree with some of you but I'm basing my opinions on what I've found in my previous research, not made up facts. If you think the above is bullshit that's fine, you can have your opinion and I'll have mine, it'd be boring if we all though the same thing


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 11, 2010)

Mop said:


> Either you guys in oz are exaggerating prices or you should move to NZ  A dual recto is NZ $3.8k new here (AU $3k). 2nd hand right now on trademe (NZ's ebay) there's 2 dual rectos for under $2k NZ. 5150 heads frequently go around the $1k NZ mark (most I'd pay would be 1100). I just sold my 5150 212 combo for 1.3k NZD and picked up a rectoverb head for 1.5k NZD. There was a very nice mark iv head a week or so ago for 2.5k NZ.



move to NZ dont think so
new mesas in AUST=
Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Head-$3999.00
MESA BOOGIE TRIPLE RECTIFIER HEAD-$4999.00
Mesa/Boogie Road King II Head-$6699.00
MESA/BOOGIE SOLO 50 HEAD-$3495.00
Mesa Boogie Mark Five Head-$5295.00
Mesa Boogie Rectoverb Combo-$3449.00
Mesa Boogie Recto STD Slant Cab-$2085.00
that is the updated price list here in AUST.
the second hand market is not much better unless you are buying from a friend.even ebay AUST there still expensive.
and IF you find an older 2 channel dual or tripple for sale in AUST expect to pay even more.
i dont have up to date prices on peavey but i assure you there not that much better in price.
oh have you actually played any bugeras by chance?


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## Daemoniac (Jul 11, 2010)

^  but  It's fucking horrible trying to get _any_ Mesa gear here in Aus... It's cheaper to buy one in the states, ship it here, then buy a step-down transformer than to just get one in a store.

It is the suck.


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## Mop (Jul 11, 2010)

I played the 5150 clone just over a year ago. At the volume they let you play in the shop it sounded pretty similar to the 6505 they had, that's why I looked into the build quality (thinking it was too good to be true). 6505's are ridiculous here too @ over 3k NZD but they are a pretty good price 2nd hand. The chain that does mesa amps in NZ is doing a really good job of driving prices down and trying to get in line with the states. I can't understand why you pay more in oz, it's closer to the origin shipping-wise. Greedy distributor maybe?


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## Daemoniac (Jul 11, 2010)

I don't know aye, but it's so fucked up 

Sad thing is that it's really not _that_ out of line with other boutique amps... A Diezel Herbert (depending on where you get it) will set you back between $6,500 and $8,000AUD, a Bogner over $5,500... Even the decent Hughes & Kettner stuff will set you back over $5k (with some of the higher end stuff getting over $6k).

I know there's a difference in the dollar, but even so it's just ridiculous


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> I don't know aye, but it's so fucked up
> 
> Sad thing is that it's really not _that_ out of line with other boutique amps... A Diezel Herbert (depending on where you get it) will set you back between $6,500 and $8,000AUD, a Bogner over $5,500... Even the decent Hughes & Kettner stuff will set you back over $5k (with some of the higher end stuff getting over $6k).
> 
> I know there's a difference in the dollar, but even so it's just ridiculous



You guys are really ass fucked by the distributors.


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## Daemoniac (Jul 11, 2010)

Yeah we definitely are.

Some brands aren't so bad, Orange and Randall aren't too bad so far as price goes (both between $2k and $3kAUD depending on the amp), Peavey isn't _too_ bad considering the price of their competition (again around the $3k mark depending where you go), even the BlackStar stuff isn't that bad ($3-3.5k).

But the second you get into anything even remotely boutique-ish, and the prices absolutely _shoot_ up.


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 11, 2010)

the thing with mesa is they set the pricing and thats it.no shop or distributor can change that.sure you can go buy a head and cab but you will pay full price on the head(mesa) but the shop can look after you on the cab.
i have a 6260 head and it sounds almost like my block 5150.
i have spent a lot of time with the magician,and to my ears it too is very very close to a MK5,to the point i am ready to pick one up for myself.
as i said.if you can afford the real thing go for it.if not then the bugera clones are very good for the price.but dont go rip on them just because there not made to the same standard or in big name amp shops.people also forget there are some big names out there who use and tour with these amps.it is rare for one to fail these days.


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## Isan (Jul 11, 2010)

I dont buy the bugera being unreliable... I gigged with mine for a year now ... and 0 problems other then the gay ass clip


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## El Caco (Jul 11, 2010)

I've seen thread where one was opened with pics, it looked like a cheap build which is what you would expect so I wouldn't expect long term reliability but they are covered for a year and you could always upgrade them after that with higher quality components and point to point wiring and it would still work out far cheaper. I still have mixed feelings about buying these types of products though and I would much rather give my money to a local amp builder like MI Amplification if I can afford it.


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## iff (Jul 12, 2010)

Lern2swim said:


> Well, first, no, it doesn't. There's plenty of accounts of Bugera amps working perfectly well.
> 
> Second, I said "real research." Internet research isn't exactly what I meant.



So where can I find this book written on Bugeras? Or do you plan on going to a music store and asking their tech how many broken Bugeras he's received in the last week alone?


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## Daemoniac (Jul 12, 2010)

s7eve said:


> I would much rather give my money to a local amp builder like MI Amplification* if I can afford it.*



Me too dude, but that last underlined/bold section pretty much covers it 

There are a load of amps i'd rather pay the cash for than Bugera, _if_ I could afford it, but given the money outlook over the next couple of years, this is looking better and better


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 12, 2010)

nomop said:


> So where can I find this book written on Bugeras? Or do you plan on going to a music store and asking their tech how many broken Bugeras he's received in the last week alone?



About two years ago, when the Bugera stuff first hit the market all over the web were threads about people's Bugera's dying on them. Then, about eight months or so later, the reports were further and farther in between. Now, I can't remember anyone posting about problems with their Bugera amp. I know people who have owned them for a year or so, and they are running perfectly. The guys I know who work at shops which sell them, don't joke about them breaking down anymore. 

Unless Bugera is handing out payouts for silence, the dependency of these amps has improved to some degree. 

I'm not saying they don't die, but I've been to enough amp repair shops to know that all types of amp, in every price range, will fail. Caps and pots have a finite life span. 

The point is, these amps, while cheaper (in both build and price) are still a better option to many players where even used amps are quite expensive.


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 13, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The point is, these amps, while cheaper (in both build and price) are still a better option to many players where even used amps are quite expensive.


this
and they do sound good too.


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## iff (Jul 13, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> About two years ago, when the Bugera stuff first hit the market all over the web were threads about people's Bugera's dying on them. Then, about eight months or so later, the reports were further and farther in between. Now, I can't remember anyone posting about problems with their Bugera amp. I know people who have owned them for a year or so, and they are running perfectly. The guys I know who work at shops which sell them, don't joke about them breaking down anymore.
> 
> Unless Bugera is handing out payouts for silence, the dependency of these amps has improved to some degree.
> 
> ...



I do agree with what you said there and I probably came off as a dick from that post, but I felt an annoying prod would serve as the best way to actually get a straight answer about what "real research" on a _two year old amp company_ entails if internet research doesn't count.


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## FearComplex (Jul 13, 2010)

Mop said:


> Do you seriously think companies like mesa charge more just for the name?


Do you think that if they were suffering from poor sales they couldn't afford to _substantially_ drop their prices? Those Mesa prices are really the best they can do? Forget about Bugera for a moment, I'm supposed to believe there's 2 grand extra worth of components in a recto than a 6505? If they can get 3 grand for their amps then good luck to them, there's just not a chance in hell I'm going to believe they couldn't price them far lower or their name isn't playing a massive role in those prices.


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## Moro (Jul 13, 2010)

Mop said:


> Please don't accuse me of making false assumptions, I seriously looked into bugera amps and ran a mile. I saved for a couple more months and bought a 2nd hand 6505 which I had zero issues with and recently sold for the same price I got it for over a year previous. If I got the bugera I'm willing to bet I'd have had to take it back and even if I didn't I'd still be out of pocket when I sold it (if anyone would buy it off me that is).
> 
> There's a fair bit of price difference in quality vs. shit components, especially the hardware. Not to mention the difference in building something to last with skilled labour vs. whatever trained monkeys bugera use roll stuff out as cheaply as possible. Do you seriously think companies like mesa charge more just for the name? I'm not suggesting it makes up the whole difference in price, but from what I've seen bugera's components and construction methods in general are not on par with the likes of mesa.
> 
> ...



That is not entirely true. Several Marshall amps mount the pots and the tube sockets on the board. Diezel mounts the tube sockets on the boards too. That is not an indication of bad contruction, it's just a choice based on convenience. Just look up any picture of a DSL201, here:






Notice the green pots and the preamp sockets mounted right on the board. Some great amps can have some very, VERY questionable construction.

Fender Bassman:





Bad Cat:





Now imagine a resistor blows up in those, vs a resistor blows up in the Bugera. Which one is easier to diagnose and repair? 

I understand that you may feel that the Bugera is unreliable, given the reputation they have. However, what you're indicating as the cause is not correct. Some amp manufacturers decide to mount things on the chassis. Some other decide to mount it on the board. Either way, the component can be crap or can be great. 

Trust me man, how you mount the components is NOT critical to the reliability. Now, given the price differences, I am willing to agree with you and bet that Bugera uses cheap components. But I just wanted to clarify that.


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## TemjinStrife (Jul 13, 2010)

FearComplex said:


> Do you think that if they were suffering from poor sales they couldn't afford to _substantially_ drop their prices? Those Mesa prices are really the best they can do? Forget about Bugera for a moment, I'm supposed to believe there's 2 grand extra worth of components in a recto than a 6505? If they can get 3 grand for their amps then good luck to them, there's just not a chance in hell I'm going to believe they couldn't price them far lower or their name isn't playing a massive role in those prices.



1.) First of all, a Rectifier is a FAR more complex circuit than a 6505. Many more components, but much more importantly far more labor.

2.) There is a lot of handwork involved in the Mesa. I don't know how much there is in the Peavey.

3.) Mesa customer support is one of the best in the business. They have to pay for knowledgeable people and their time to work the phones and emails.

4.) Mesa is a much smaller shop than Peavey, thus volume is lower.

5.) Mesa's EU distributors' pricing is fucking ridiculous.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> 1.) First of all, a Rectifier is a FAR more complex circuit than a 6505. Many more components, but much more importantly far more labor.
> 
> 2.) There is a lot of handwork involved in the Mesa. I don't know how much there is in the Peavey.
> 
> ...





In the US, considering the product, Mesa gear is priced pretty fair. Peavey has pretty much always been the more "economical" brand in comparison. Not a dig, just a fact. 

The prices abroad are ridiculous, but the distributors and import taxes are really what's at fault.


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## newamerikangospel (Jul 13, 2010)

Mop said:


>






When I read this comment and looked at the pictures, without looking through them, I thought the first one was mesa, since it appears cleaner. Then after looking at the socket mounting and the knobs, I realized the difference.


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## Mop (Jul 13, 2010)

Moro, I agree with some of what you said but not all of it.
Yes many companies (including some mesa amps) mount sockets to the board, which can be fine if done properly, I was more trying to show the difference in labour costs of doing it chassis mount and wiring to the sockets (longer lasting imo, but we can agree to disagree there).

The pots on the dsl are mounted right up against the chassis which is better than what the bugera has done, but still not good imo. Surely you agree that using decent chassis mounted pots is a far better (albeit much more expensive) option?

I think you'd find most techs would have a much easier job finding and fixing the fault in the bassman or badcat actually, again we can agree to disagree if you like.

The pics were just ones I picked at random from a google search, I can't even remember which mesa and which bugera they are. The sole purpose was to compare construction on the two to illustrate why one is more expensive than the other and why one will undoubtedly last longer than the other. The pots on the bugera alone are enough for me to avoid that amp, it's clearly built on the cheap as most people know and as the pics illustrate. 

I'm not going to go into this any further here, IMO bugera =  YMMV


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## Moro (Jul 13, 2010)

I understand what you said. I actually MADE my own amp from scratch, a Soldano SLO clone, and I mounted everything on the chassis, because I think it's more reliable. And I also lack the resources to make everything PCB munted. But I do think that if done properly, both methods can work.


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## El Caco (Jul 13, 2010)

Moro said:


> That is not entirely true. Several Marshall amps mount the pots and the tube sockets on the board. Diezel mounts the tube sockets on the boards too. That is not an indication of bad contruction, it's just a choice based on convenience. Just look up any picture of a DSL201, here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Moro said:


> I understand what you said. I actually MADE my own amp from scratch, a Soldano SLO clone, and I mounted everything on the chassis, because I think it's more reliable. And I also lack the resources to make everything PCB munted. But I do think that if done properly, both methods can work.



I'm confused, as you have made your own amp you are no doubt aware that the examples you questioned are point to point contruction vs the cheap printed board of the Bugera. Point to point is absolutely easier to repair (unless you are talking early Sansui tube amp ), and the reports I have seen said the tracks on the Bugera printed circuit boards are so thin they are next to impossible to repair. There is nothing questionable about point to point construction, it just doesn't always look pretty.


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## Moro (Jul 14, 2010)

Sorry, I did not express myself correctly there. Keep in mind, english is not my native language...

When I worked in my SLO, I mounted all the HW in the chassis, i.e. the pots and the tube sockets. The rest went in a PCB. I did not want to mount those in the PCB because of the risk of someone bumping into a pot and damaging the PCB. 

I didn't do a point to point amp because I hate point to point, TBH. If you construct point to point, you start running cables everywhere and the chances of getting hum increase, and since it's easily avoidable with a good PCB, I just did that. Also, the original Soldano is made with a PCB, so I made it exactly like that. There's nothing wrong with using a PCB, in fact, I think it's much, much better. But only if it is a quality PCB. I've never come across a Bugera's guts, so I wouldn't know about the quality of their PCBs. 

When I said the thing about the questionable construction, I was refering to the bassman and the bad cat, not the Marshall. Although the pots of the DSL are crap.


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## El Caco (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm just arguing that the point to point wiring of those amps is not questionable construction. You might prefer a quality circuit board and one has to recognize the advantages of using one but it is important to keep in mind that there is nothing questionable about point to point construction and that some of the greatest amps built use point to point and some of these look like a rats nest. You can easily avoid hum when using wires in point to point construction by using quality shielded wires. The bad cat pic especially is an example of a high quality modern point to point design.

Although almost never seen today the rats nest approach to point to point construction was considered by some to be superior as it attempts to offer the most efficient signal path. The problems are realised when one needs to replace a resistor that is buried in the circuit.

The main advantage printed circuit boards have over point to point construction is machines can build them.


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## Ben.Last (Jul 14, 2010)

nomop said:


> I do agree with what you said there and I probably came off as a dick from that post, but I felt an annoying prod would serve as the best way to actually get a straight answer about what "real research" on a _two year old amp company_ entails if internet research doesn't count.



Going to a store and trying them out. Maybe even renting one. Sure, everyone looks to the internet now but let's be honest, you can find evidence for and against every single product in existence out there. I would never depend solely on internet stories was what I meant.


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## iff (Jul 15, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> 1.) First of all, a Rectifier is a FAR more complex circuit than a 6505. Many more components, but much more importantly far more labor.
> 
> 2.) There is a lot of handwork involved in the Mesa. I don't know how much there is in the Peavey.
> 
> ...



+



MaxOfMetal said:


> In the US, considering the product, Mesa gear is priced pretty fair. Peavey has pretty much always been the more "economical" brand in comparison. Not a dig, just a fact.
> 
> The prices abroad are ridiculous, but the distributors and import taxes are really what's at fault.



=

Reason.



Lern2swim said:


> Going to a store and trying them out. Maybe even renting one. Sure, everyone looks to the internet now but let's be honest, you can find evidence for and against every single product in existence out there. I would never depend solely on internet stories was what I meant.



Renting one, okay, you can put it through some tests. But trying one at a store? That's not really going to prove anything about reliability (unless, on the off chance, it breaks down right in front of you).


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## Vegetta (Jul 16, 2010)

My guy said he could get me one of these for $560 US 

I tried out the V55 combo and a 333xl combo for a little bit and both were pretty damn good,
I'm going to try one of these when he gets one in and will probably end up buying one if i like it,


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## Mordacain (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm saving up now for a Magician. Even if I could afford a Mark V I would want one of these as well just for the Variable Output power. Assuming its the same circuit as the TriRec, it advertises 1Watt to 100Watt (or 85 in case of Magician). 

The Mark V by comparison offers 10w, 45w and 90w options. If the tone gets even 80% close to a Mark I'd be happy. This also has a Pentode / Triode switch so it is doing some things different circuit wise so its obviously not a straight clone. Figure in $80 for a Warehouse Speaker Veteran 30 and you've probably got a fantastic sounding recording rig.


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## cow 7 sig (Aug 17, 2010)

IMO its closer than 80% its very very close in tone.


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## splinter8451 (Aug 17, 2010)

So are their clips of these things yet? Any news on when they will be in stores?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2010)

splinter8451 said:


> So are their clips of these things yet? Any news on when they will be in stores?



Apparently they're still waiting on FCC approval. 



cow 7 sig said:


> IMO its closer than 80% its very very close in tone.





If it's anything like the Peavey clones that Bugera makes, it's going to be more like 95% with a tube swap.


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## splinter8451 (Aug 17, 2010)

Well if the Magician comes out even close to the Mark V I have played then I'll be getting one 

World Music Supply has them for order at $699.99. I guess that'll stay the street price then.


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## CFB (Aug 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The prices abroad are ridiculous, but the distributors and import taxes are really what's at fault.



I doubt that. A Mark V is $2000 in the US and here in Sweden the same amp goes for about $4100. The price is affected by import taxes, but it will never double the price.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2010)

CFB said:


> I doubt that. A Mark V is $2000 in the US and here in Sweden the same amp goes for about $4100. The price is affected by import taxes, but it will never double the price.



Which is where the distributor comes in.


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## Mordacain (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi all,
I thought I'd share this email:




> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Webmaster, Bugera-Amps <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Mordacain.
> 
> The amp models will be released in October / November of this year.
> ...



Amps should be released October\November according to that response


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## ittoa666 (Aug 18, 2010)

Can't wait to see how fast these ones break.


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## Customisbetter (Aug 18, 2010)

the inside of that mesa looks EXACTLY like the insides on my markIII built 25 years ago.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 18, 2010)

ittoa666 said:


> Can't wait to see how fast these ones break.



Don't hate bro. 

When is the last time you heard a legit story of a new, recent Bugera amp dying?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Aug 18, 2010)

Mooo0000OOOOO


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## Mordacain (Aug 18, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Don't hate bro.
> 
> When is the last time you heard a legit story of a new, recent Bugera amp dying?



+1. I'm just really stoked to play one of the Magicians. I've always wanted a Mark and even though I might be able to find a used Mark IV I could afford (after selling lots of other gear), I'd never be able to play it at even 1/10th volume in my current situation and I just don't think that would sound as good. The wattage selector on the Egnator Rebel 20 worked pretty well and I'd assume the design is similar on the Magician and TRIREC for controlling the output wattage.


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## Opeth666 (Aug 18, 2010)

ittoa666 said:


> Can't wait to see how fast these ones break.



Bugera's reliability has skyrocketed. these things are built nice and thorough now


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## rotebass (Aug 18, 2010)

I see more broken Randalls, Laneys and Marshalls than Bugera's at the shop I work at, just sayin.


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