# Riots In London



## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

Who is Mark Duggan, and how did his death cause the Tottenham riot? « 100gf | Politics and Computers

BBC News - London riots: Dozens injured after Tottenham violence


It seems so far, that police have been targeting the black community in that area as they are the source of crim there, and tried to arrest one man (Mark Duggan) which ended up in him being killed. This sparked a riot as many people felt they were being unfairly targeted and that it might have been a racist killing. 


My opinion is this: if a certain ethnic group is a known issue in an area, then discrimination is needed to target those people in order to make the lives of everyone else better. Unfortunately the black community in London has been known for gang violence for quite a while, and most of the teenagers shot in gang incidents have been black. This doesn't reflect on the black community as a whole of course, I don't want to sound like one of those white pride EDL prats. Now apparently a week ago this man was targeted for arrest and was found with a gun on him. A shoot-out ensued and he was killed. This has enraged the community as obviously those friends with this man would be angry and perhaps more people might get the feeling it was a racial attack if police didn't communicate with the public very well (which sounds like the case). There was already a lot of racial tension there by the sounds of it, this has just kicked it all off. Now I understand if people feel like they're being unfairly singled out, it must be horrible, but it's necessary to find those people who are issues and clearly their actions have validated this. People's homes, shops and cars were set on fire, many police officers and innocent people were hurt. One police officer was actually shot. This is not the work of simple protestors, these are criminals and this whole riot in my opinion has made me side completely with the police. Maybe this previous shooting was sketchy, but in terms of the riots clearly there are a bunch of fuckwit criminals down there who need to be dealt with. I only hope those people who have suffered in these riots can get themselves back up on their feet.


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## Chickenhawk (Aug 7, 2011)

Whoa.

This is a really sensitive subject for a lot of people. Hopefully people can be mature enough to not get this thread closed.

But, for the record, I mostly agree with your view on this, Ross.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

My Mum and her family grew up in Tottenham through the 60's and to the early 70's. The racial tension has been building up since then due to immigrants moving over from the West Indies (partial racism from those who lived in Tottenham and partly due to the increase in crime contributed from West Indies immigrants) and I'm surprised it hasn't blown up bigger than it has. 

As for the riot itself, pure opportunitism from 'gangsters' looking to do some damage and have an easier time to get away with it amoungst a big crowd. These people are utter cowards and it pisses me off every time I see these things happen on the news recently. But unfortunately I don't think there's much you can do unless people on both sides get their act together and work together to make sure peacefull protests don't erupt into animalistic shit like yesterday.


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## hereticemir (Aug 7, 2011)

What about tyrannical rule forced on those from different cultures by the westernized world. Just don't blame an ethnic group look at the whole picture. How long do you expect a people chained to an image as a sub class in society pretend that it true. I mean the unjust that isn't reported in the news and must be seen for itself can only dominate people with fear for so long before it boils over. I suggest you read actual books about history and see what thease ethnic groups have had to deal with through westernized tyranny over the centuries. I would be angry to if they sent in the one's that are suppose to protect and serve the people to enforce and enslave. They protect and serve their intrest not yours or my idea.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

You can't use the terrible happenings of slavery that happened many years ago as an excuse for the violent, disrespectful thugs of today. Many black people see no reason to differ themselves to white people and live their lives like myself and many other respectful, hard working, kind people. So why do those who loot, damage and harm others see the reason to do such things other than they haven't bothered to make the best of their situation what ever that may be and that goes for any race.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

hereticemir said:


> What about tyrannical rule forced on those from different cultures by the westernized world. Just don't blame an ethnic group look at the whole picture. How long do you expect a people chained to an image as a sub class in society pretend that it true. I mean the unjust that isn't reported in the news and must be seen for itself can only dominate people with fear for so long before it boils over. I suggest you read actual books about history and see what thease ethnic groups have had to deal with through westernized tyranny over the centuries. I would be angry to if they sent in the one's that are suppose to protect and serve the people to enforce and enslave. They protect and serve their intrest not yours or my idea.


 

If we hold on to the past then society doesn't move on. I have read enough about what the black race have been through, so please don't be condescending and imply that I have historical or social awareness. I am fully aware that the western world has had a negative impact on the world s whole, but we're not talking about that here. Let's not make this some 'fuck the government' thread. What these people did is wrong, end of.



maliciousteve said:


> You can't use the terrible happenings of slavery that happened many years ago as an excuse for the violent, disrespectful thugs of today. Many black people see no reason to differ themselves to white people and live their lives like myself and many other respectful, hard working, kind people. So why do those who loot, damage and harm others see the reason to do such things other than they haven't bothered to make the best of their situation what ever that may be and that goes for any race.


 
This.


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 7, 2011)

maliciousteve said:


> You can't use the terrible happenings of slavery that happened many years ago as an excuse for the violent, disrespectful thugs of today. Many black people see no reason to differ themselves to white people and live their lives like myself and many other respectful, hard working, kind people. So why do those who loot, damage and harm others see the reason to do such things other than they haven't bothered to make the best of their situation what ever that may be and that goes for any race.





I remember the riots of the 70's and quite frankly it's always a minority causing incredible difficulties for the community as a whole. It's almost become a case of reverse discrimination where misguided individuals attempt to justify their behavior through the colour of their skin.

Want equality? 

That's fine, now reciprocate. 



> What about tyrannical rule forced on those from different cultures by the westernized world. Just don't blame an ethnic group look at the whole picture. How long do you expect a people chained to an image as a sub class in society pretend that it true. I mean the unjust that isn't reported in the news and must be seen for itself can only dominate people with fear for so long before it boils over. I suggest you read actual books about history and see what thease ethnic groups have had to deal with through westernized tyranny over the centuries. I would be angry to if they sent in the one's that are suppose to protect and serve the people to enforce and enslave. They protect and serve their intrest not yours or my idea.




Your whole sentence is negated by one simple fact - he was carrying a gun and fired on police officers. Are we to excuse his flagrant criminal activity in light of the historical facts about the treatment of minorities?

No.

There are been dreadful inequities committed over the years and I'm sure we're all aware of them as well as their socio-political impact.....none of which excuses the thuggery of certain elements. 

Quoted from the article:



> Clearly the Tottenham riots are about more than just the Mark Duggan death. They are about a breakdown of the relationship between police and a significant part of the community in this part of North London. Lately, it seems that Britains police believe they can keep law and order solely through force. But there was a time, not so long ago, when the police recognised the need to inspire trust and confidence. Are those days over?



The Police clearly don't believe that force is the only way they can keep law and order but I believe their response in this instance was justified. This sort of biased reporting clearly fails to take into account the forward movement Police Forces across the UK (and particularly in troubled areas like Hottentot) are attempting to make towards more amicable relations and if anything it's the criminals and their mindless sycophants doing far more harm to Community/Police relations than certain sources would like to believe.


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 7, 2011)

(Apparently I can't edit the above post - that's "Tottenham" obviously)


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## Explorer (Aug 7, 2011)

Am I understanding correctly that a known gang member, with a warrant out for his arrest, pulled a weapon on police officers, fired on them, was killed... and the community is outraged due to this gangster being a valued member of the community? 

Fail. 

If someone views the death of a rabid dog as an attack on themselves, then either their skills at identifying with others like them need work... or they're correctly identifying with that rabid dog, meaning that they also are a threat to others.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Am I understanding correctly that a known gang member, with a warrant out for his arrest, pulled a weapon on police officers, fired on them, was killed... and the community is outraged due to this gangster being a valued member of the community?
> 
> Fail.
> 
> If someone views the death of a rabid dog as an attack on themselves, then either their skills at identifying with others like them need work... or they're correctly identifying with that rabid dog, meaning that they also are a threat to others.


 
Unfortunately in the UK, people don't see the big picture. Lots of teens get shot and killed in gang wars, and people victimise them. The parents come on tv saying how their 'special little boy was so good and never hurt anyone. such a loss'. I don't think so. They're criminals. You play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.


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## C2Aye (Aug 7, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> You play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.



Which is unfortunately what those thugs decided to do around people's homes and livelihoods. I can't imagine what it must have been like to wake up in the early hours to an angry mob setting your house on fire and for those who own shops in the area returning to nothing but a burnt out husk of a building.

You can quote history, previous racial tension or the shooting of that man by the police. None of it justifies the sheer level of violence and damage those thugs caused.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

^ Exactly.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

Apparently things are kicking off in Enfield now. Fucking idiots.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

In an economic crisis such as this, it makes the loss for all those people even worse. The cleanup afterwards will be expensive as well, many buildings will have to be rebuilt from the looks of it. 


This whole thing just backs my opinion that some people don't deserve to be a part of society, and so the best thing for everyone is to just get rid of them.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

maliciousteve said:


> Apparently things are kicking off in Enfield now. Fucking idiots.


 
I heard earlier riot poilice were out there. Shit.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> In an economic crisis such as this, it makes the loss for all those people even worse. The cleanup afterwards will be expensive as well, many buildings will have to be rebuilt from the looks of it.
> 
> 
> This whole thing just backs my opinion that some people don't deserve to be a part of society, and so the best thing for everyone is to just get rid of them.



Very hard to not see things that way. Unfortunately these sort of people have been about as long as the human race and there's people that think we're on the brink of evolving and having a better understanding? Give me a break.


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## BigPhi84 (Aug 7, 2011)

ShadyDavey said:


> (Apparently I can't edit the above post - that's "Tottenham" obviously)



Hottentot sounds awesome, like some Harry Potter universe character.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

maliciousteve said:


> Very hard to not see things that way. Unfortunately these sort of people have been about as long as the human race and there's people that think we're on the brink of evolving and having a better understanding? Give me a break.


 
Yup. Problem is, as populations grow, the number of bad people grows with them. We hae to take control of society and collectively say no to the bullshit some bad people create.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

Sounds like the police were at fault here after all, though they doesn't excuse the violence that took place on the part of the public.


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## maliciousteve (Aug 7, 2011)

I'll have to watch the video later, Fiance's watching a wedding program 

But what ever happened, still doesn't justifying burning down an innocent persons home and hurting people.

I'm quite the cynic so I don't see things getting better for us. Only a slow and bitter destruction. But I'm going off on one now so I'm going back to the guitar section


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 7, 2011)

It's one point of view but if true.

Fuck people. 

If not?

Fuck people.

Allegations and counter-allegations will abound......nothing new there. It may even be the case that as before the exact cause is never known but that won't stop the over-reactions on both sides. 

"People are coming from as far as South London" for the opportunity to loot. 

*sigh*


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

No the vast majority of this is mindless looting and destruction by some idiotic individuals, however the police may have instigated this.


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 7, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> No the vast majority of this is mindless looting and destruction by some idiotic individuals, however the police may have instigated this.



"May" have being the cause of the inevitable long chain of claim and counter-claim as of course no-one wants the finger pointed at them.

Unless proof turns up but either way it's all fuel to the idiotic


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## Explorer (Aug 7, 2011)

Hmm.

So, according to the "eyewitness" (I have no idea who this person is, or if this person saw what actually happened to being with), people were gathering and demanding answers from the riot police. A "young female *approached*" the riot police demanding answers. 

First question: So, the riot police were just assembling as part of an overtime pay program? Or was the community upset about a criminal with a warrant drawing a weapon on police and being killed, to the point where they were gathering on the street to the point where the riot police mobilized?

Second question: In this day of YouTube, where are the horrible martyr vids of this brave young girl who just *approached* police with a question? Given the success of posting videos in terms of proving police wrongdoing, I'm kind of surprised that these neighborhoods apparently don't have cellphone service. Anyone in the UK able to say that people in these neighborhoods generally don't use cell phones? I could be wrong, but I suspect that if anyone has a video of the girl's *approach*, and wants the police blamed... they're probably not going to post what is in such a video. 

I'm hoping for a video, but as for my first question... epic fail on the part of people gathering to demand why police would shoot a criminal who shot at them.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

The protestors were outside the police station, and the police gathered and formed a line as a precaution. Apparently there is video of the girl approaching the police but you don't see much.

I do agree that the reasons for this protest seem really odd, but we don't know when this information was released. It's not even been confirmed he had a gun that I've seen. The public weren't protesting his death, so much as the lack of information on it. If someone gets shot in your town you want to know the police's justifications for it.


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## ittoa666 (Aug 7, 2011)

This is shaping up to be like England's LA riot.


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## jymellis (Aug 7, 2011)

i read in the paper today something similar here in cincinnati ohio.

lastnight at 3am the police where called to the university if cincinnati ( a commons house at the uni).

they where called for an "assault"

while questioning the people involved another student (that lived at the house and had nothing to do with the assault arrived)

as he was approaching (according to the story)

he had balled fists and appeared aggitated. the police asked him to stop several times but he continued approaching (keep in mind HE LIVES at the commons house and had NOTHING to do with the call)

the officers then tazed the student ( graduated top 10 percentile of his class)

the tazing KILLED the kid!

no charges have been filed.

he was white


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## Dan (Aug 7, 2011)

I have a real problem with the media in our country. The same thing happened with the student riots last year, and a lot of the facts of these things are hidden from the general public to make ordinary peaceful protesters look just as bad as the violent minority, whilst at the same time making the police look like martyrs.

When the student riots were going on lots of innocent people were beaten senseless by the police, who instigated quite a lot of the violence. There are umpteen youtube videos to show this but the BBC, an 'impartial' news service removes any and all things such as this in the interests of the country, 'i.e. covering peoples backs when they dont want us to see the truth'.

Don't get me wrong i don't believe for a moment that whats gone on is in any way right, they could have gone about it a much better way. HOWEVER i would like a media outlett to give us the FACTS rather than a bias and jaded view of whats gone on. There is literally nothing on the internet from a mainstream news source to tell us whats gone on, how its happened or why.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

The police kept the media away from the bulk of it apparently.


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## Dan (Aug 7, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> The police kept the media away from the bulk of it apparently.




I wonder why....


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 7, 2011)

Plug said:


> I wonder why....


 
They said it was for safety reasons, but most of the initial reports seemed to be from the police, however an independant investigation is now going on.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 7, 2011)

I don't really have anything to add to this, but it is surreal to know that this is going on ridiculously close to where I live (I could go, loot a shop and be home in under an hour). It is fucking stupid though, people's idiocy and the tendency to flock in groups and make noise instead of intelligently tackling problems never ceases to revolt me.


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## Varcolac (Aug 8, 2011)

Not happy about this shit.

I live about 10 minutes' walk from Brixton station. There was a community festival thing on Sunday afternoon around the centre of town. Food, crowds, mediocre soul singers, embarrassingly self-conscious local rap group. Seemed to embody all the good stuff about this area. Went home, watched some Deadwood (swengen! cocksucka!), went to sleep. I heard some banging downstairs at about 2AM last night. Thought nothing of it, went back to sleep.

Woke up to find that there'd been a riot around the station that night. Station was closed, the roads around it were closed to traffic, and traffic was gridlocked outside my window when I woke up. Getting a bus to the nearest other station, I went through the centre of Brixton and saw broken shopfronts all over. Police tape all over the place. Not impressed.

Brixton is the other side of London from Tottenham. Rioting is in my opinion incredibly pointless in the first place, and even more so in this case - the businesses I saw damaged on my bus ride through Brixton were local goddamn businesses. Violent morons damaging their own neighbourhood for no tangible outcome and making me and the hundreds of other non-mental productive members of society in Brixton late for work on a Monday morning. Good job, dickheads.

I'm still not sure what the point of it all was. The (alleged) motherfucker (allegedly) shot at a police officer, what did they expect? As with any police shooting there will be an investigation into it. Can't expect overnight results, and you certainly can't expect to speed things up by throwing bricks at the fuzz and setting the post office ablaze.

As a caveat, I'm white and university-educated, so you'll have to excuse me for "not getting it."


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

People are posting their stolen booty on Twitter...  what an idiot


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## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 8, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> Not happy about this shit.
> 
> I live about 10 minutes' walk from Brixton station. There was a community festival thing on Sunday afternoon around the centre of town. Food, crowds, mediocre soul singers, embarrassingly self-conscious local rap group. Seemed to embody all the good stuff about this area. Went home, watched some Deadwood (swengen! cocksucka!), went to sleep. I heard some banging downstairs at about 2AM last night. Thought nothing of it, went back to sleep.
> 
> ...



yeah man you don't get it,you don't get da suffering man.You'd be aimlessly setting things on fire if you had suffered.

They have the right to be violent!!


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## Infinite Recursion (Aug 8, 2011)

My views on this have been conveyed quite nicely by others in this thread. I don't know much about the situation but I think this is related to one of the major problems I have with immigration. If you come to a country and you have some useful skill (engineer, doctor, tradesman, even something like farm labour if they can't find people to do it) it doesn't matter to me whether you are yellow, black, red, or whatever; the fact is we need these skills and immigrants can fill those positions. However, if you come here simply because Jihadistan sucks, then I have an issue with you. We don't need you here; this is a country, not a fucking charity. If you integrate and respect our laws and customs then I still don't believe you really belong here but it's not an issue I'd pursue. If you don't integrate, don't contribute, live off of welfare and cause a bunch of crime and social unrest then you are actively detrimental to society. And this goes for all people of all races and social standings. If you are an unskilled Aryan, then I don't want you here either. I know fuck-all about London but I assume that the black community in this area is largely insular and unskilled. The fact is, unless you are of royal descent, your ancestors have been persecuted at some point, possibly suffering far worse then the blacks did due to slavery. The slavery rationalization is bullshit, part of this whole one-sided equality affirmative action crap, but that's another rant for another time.


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)




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## chronocide (Aug 8, 2011)

Infinite Recursion said:


> My views on this have been conveyed quite nicely by others in this thread. I don't know much about the situation but I think this is related to one of the major problems I have with immigration. If you come to a country and you have some useful skill (engineer, doctor, tradesman, even something like farm labour if they can't find people to do it) it doesn't matter to me whether you are yellow, black, red, or whatever; the fact is we need these skills and immigrants can fill those positions. However, if you come here simply because Jihadistan sucks, then I have an issue with you. We don't need you here; this is a country, not a fucking charity. If you integrate and respect our laws and customs then I still don't believe you really belong here but it's not an issue I'd pursue. If you don't integrate, don't contribute, live off of welfare and cause a bunch of crime and social unrest then you are actively detrimental to society. And this goes for all people of all races and social standings. If you are an unskilled Aryan, then I don't want you here either. I know fuck-all about London but I assume that the black community in this area is largely insular and unskilled. The fact is, unless you are of royal descent, your ancestors have been persecuted at some point, possibly suffering far worse then the blacks did due to slavery. The slavery rationalization is bullshit, part of this whole one-sided equality affirmative action crap, but that's another rant for another time.



This has nothing to do with immigration. Were you just hunting for somewhere to post this rubbish?


News reports keep changing but there is talk of things kicking off in Birmingham and Leeds now.


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## Varcolac (Aug 8, 2011)

OK that made me laugh despite the fact that I'm in the middle of Brixton and praying to Odin that nothing kicks off tonight.

Edit: Boris riding to save the day, not the insular anti-immigration stuff.


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## C2Aye (Aug 8, 2011)

Infinite Recursion said:


> My views on this have been conveyed quite nicely by others in this thread. I don't know much about the situation but I think this is related to one of the major problems I have with immigration. If you come to a country and you have some useful skill (engineer, doctor, tradesman, even something like farm labour if they can't find people to do it) it doesn't matter to me whether you are yellow, black, red, or whatever; the fact is we need these skills and immigrants can fill those positions. However, if you come here simply because Jihadistan sucks, then I have an issue with you. We don't need you here; this is a country, not a fucking charity. If you integrate and respect our laws and customs then I still don't believe you really belong here but it's not an issue I'd pursue. If you don't integrate, don't contribute, live off of welfare and cause a bunch of crime and social unrest then you are actively detrimental to society. And this goes for all people of all races and social standings. If you are an unskilled Aryan, then I don't want you here either. I know fuck-all about London but I assume that the black community in this area is largely insular and unskilled. The fact is, unless you are of royal descent, your ancestors have been persecuted at some point, possibly suffering far worse then the blacks did due to slavery. The slavery rationalization is bullshit, part of this whole one-sided equality affirmative action crap, but that's another rant for another time.



You either probably don't understand the whole situation or just needed to vent some anti-immigration views. If, by chance, it is the former, let me explain. A large part of this immigration was actively encouraged by the British government as part of the post WWII rebuilding effort. They needed people to provide basic services like driving buses and the like so people from the Caribbean came over and did that. So a lot of the black community stems from generations ago and instead of taking all the welface they could get, they helped British society when it needed it most. However, as you can guess, bus drivers don't earn the greatest pay and I'm guessing the other jobs they did didn't pay a great deal either. So these immigrants became a percentage of the UK's poorest. So in case any more immigrant bashing goes on (myself being an immigrant to the UK), there's the history; Afro-Caribbeans were actively encouraged to emigrate after WWII.

In the case of the riots however, I find it difficult to point the finger at immigration, social tension, racial tension, etc.

Much easier to point the finger at absolute wankers, as these rioters and looters surely seem to be.


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## McKay (Aug 8, 2011)

My best friends dad is a policeman in Plymouth and was called to London (other side of the country) to combat this. He's currently there. Sent a text to said friend saying that it's a lot worse than being reported and he's got petrol bombs exploding around him.

My girlfriend works in the Havering council building, says they nearly got evacuated because there were threats for bombing the floor beneath her. I'm usually in London these days but this is the one week I've not been. I'm meant to be going up in a few days..

They're setting fire to people's houses while people are still inside. Anyone found setting fire to anything should be shot. I would happily endorse their summary execution.

As for the looters, they should warn them with an army of loudspeakers that anyone looting will be shot. Anyone that continues would be shot. You'd kill two birds with one stone - kill the looters and eliminate the damaging element of society they come from.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 8, 2011)

I hope nothing kicks off around Oxford Circus, it's literally a few hundred metres from where I work.

These riots are beyond fucking ridiculous. They're spreading all over the place and it's no longer because of that bloke who got shot, it's just a bunch of brain-dead cunts who want to smash stuff up for the sake of it.

The police should be armed. It's unacceptable, there isn't any motive behind it other than greed (the looting) and wanting to cause havoc because they're uneducated, scummy chav bastards who have no other life to speak of. This really shows that Britain is a shit, shit country which is full of pathetic cunts who deserve nothing more than a bullet through the back of the head.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 8, 2011)

chronocide said:


> News reports keep changing but there is talk of things kicking off in Birmingham and Leeds now.



I've heard Nottingham is beginning to kick off now too...


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## McKay (Aug 8, 2011)

Apparently East Ham is on fire, and either Romford, Upminster or Hornchurch has had a Gregs and Nandos set on fire.

Don't know how reliable that is but it's weird.


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## Guitarman700 (Aug 8, 2011)

Jesus _*FUCKING CHRIST*_ what is wrong with people!? Goddamn, this is unacceptable.


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

It's happening across the country but the BBC is keeping quiet on it. As much as i apreciate trying to keep the peace they are just plain lying to the general public now. You'll never know the real truth because the media will never tell you.


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## McKay (Aug 8, 2011)

My girlfriend's friend is saying that there are looters at the end of her street and the end of the street is on fire. Not sure where that is, somewherein Havering.

It's not on TV, nor are they mentioning anywhere else in the UK other than Birmingham.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 8, 2011)

I can't even watch the news, it made me too angry seeing the headlines. This poor woman was in tears because her house was on fire after the bastards set it alight indiscriminately.

If I was chief of police (which I'm not, currently) all the police would have M-16s (and been thoroughly encouraged to use them) and the water cannons would have been on full tap for a good few hours now.

People who see fit to do this, for literally no reason whatsoever, are not people who deserve to keep their lives IMO.


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

McKay said:


> My girlfriend's friend is saying that there are looters at the end of her street and the end of the street is on fire. Not sure where that is, somewherein Havering.
> 
> It's not on TV, nor are they mentioning anywhere else in the UK other than Birmingham.



There's looting in the town near me :\ I am actually fucking shitting it over here... (Wolverhampton, Wednesfield)


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## McKay (Aug 8, 2011)

'yeah theyre doing rainham now and romford and dagenham'

And other cities too.. niffnoff, how bad is it?


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

McKay said:


> 'yeah theyre doing rainham now and romford and dagenham'
> 
> And other cities too.. niffnoff, how bad is it?



From what I've heard on the blogs and news Birmingham have got it bad, but there is absolutely no reason for this to happen here?

In wolverhampton (my city) it's kicked off but haven't heard anything since. But in the town, (wednesfield) looting and burnings are just goin off for fun, I'm just thinking what the fuck here right now. Fuck sleeping now....


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

Can you all direct me to the sources you are getting your info for. For now check this out:

More rioting in Hackney and elsewhere around London « The West Londoner


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## McKay (Aug 8, 2011)

Apparently Plymouth has fires now too. My girlfriends town is on fire and the whole city centre is being looted/burned.


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

Birmingham Riots 2011 <---- birmingham blog
and the BBC for brum sources I'm just going off by my estate for my area :\


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## Varcolac (Aug 8, 2011)

Romford's on fire?

And nothing of value was lost.

Just had a vanload of police downstairs (as I mentioned I live above some shops). The shopkeepers have some kind of friends-and-family protective militia outside, all the security shutters down (on a 24-hour off-license - those shutters have probably not been down since the '80s) and trading through the windows. Apparently they had their till nicked by dudes with knives last night. Looked a bit hairy for a while, but it seems to be settling into some kind of post-apocalyptic normalcy.


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

^ hope everything will be okay for you dude. The moment it gets hairy lock up and get the fuck out of there!!!!


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## Ninetyfour (Aug 8, 2011)

My Dad lives in Solihull and works at a security firm, so I hope it doesn't spread to the rest of the Birmingham area. Not heard anything about them moving up north though.

Violence doesn't solve anything, I understand that the black community are upset about being discriminated against, but this is just making it worse for themselves, it's stupid and inconsiderate. The thing that annoys me is seeing the white kids joining in too, they need slapping.


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## TimSE (Aug 8, 2011)

My Dad and his lady are in London at the mo. theyr alright though.

Tomorrow is going to be like the film The Hangover but for all of England! 

Presenting: 1 Tiger...






Iv also seen another pic surface on FB of a woman jumping from a burning building. This shit has gone waaaay too far. I have said for years that London is the shithole of the universe and this simple proves me slightly more right. 

grr


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

^ you have GOT to be shitting me?!?!?!?!


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## TimSE (Aug 8, 2011)

Plug said:


> ^ you have GOT to be shitting me?!?!?!?!



Tell me about it!


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## Varcolac (Aug 8, 2011)

this lady knows what's up.


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

... the fuck


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## steve1 (Aug 8, 2011)

this is ridiculous.


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## Dvaienat (Aug 8, 2011)

There have been reports of rioting in the Tees areas and Newcastle in the North East. I only hope it does not spread to Sunderland, where I live. It seems real shit is going down now.


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

Birmingham Riots Blog said:


> *A few words.*
> 
> Its easy to dismiss the rioters as scum with nothing better to do but there are much deeper problems here. As a young, male, ethnic minority in the inner city myself, chances are, I probably know some of these people. I can relate to the feelings of helplessness. Ive been fortunate enough to be successful as a musician myself and been able to create my own positive future, but these kids rioting dont see themselves having a future at all. They have been failed by society as a whole, theyve been failed by the government cutting arts funding and closing youth centres, unemployment is rife to the point where even the ones desperately trying to seek work simply cant find it, and the boiling point to all this (Mark Duggan events) is a situation that is VERY REAL. I myself have been stopped and searched many times by police for no given reason. They raided my apartment at 6.30 in the morning once while my wife and I were asleep claiming theyd had reports of a disturbance. Ive been questioned for gang activity that I had no part of, because of how I look and where I come from. Its simple racial profiling, and whilst that is NOT an excuse for the behaviours of rioters, the sad fact is that it happens.
> 
> ...



Have to say i really do understand what he is trying to say.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Aug 8, 2011)

What do they think rioting is going to do? Its probably just going to make the racists in the police feel like they're right.

I've never really understood the mentality of a rioter, it almost always fails to accomplishes anything except cause a shit load of collateral damage.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry just a sec, is that a fucking tiger?


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Aug 8, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Sorry just a sec, is that a fucking tiger?



Some people are saying that the London Zoo was attacked by rioters, with various animals such as tigers and penguins being released. The only news source on Google News that has something about this is saying it's untrue, just like the earlier reports about the children's hospital(thank god).

London Zoo reports apparently untrue, tigers and other animals not free #londonriots « 100gf | Politics and Computers


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## C2Aye (Aug 8, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> Some people are saying that the London Zoo was attacked by rioters, with various animals such as tigers and penguins being released. The only news source on Google News that has something about this is saying it's untrue, just like the earlier reports about the children's hospital(thank god).
> 
> London Zoo reports apparently untrue, tigers and other animals not free #londonriots « 100gf | Politics and Computers



Reading that, _I can't even believe there are even rumours_ about attacks on a children's hospital in Birmingham. I hope, for the love of humanity, that this is not true.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 8, 2011)

That tiger would still be content in his cage if the corrupt zookeepers paid him enough money to afford that widescreen plasma TV he's always wanted. They don't, so shit is _on,_ son.


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## Dan (Aug 8, 2011)

My feelings summed up in one picture...


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## C2Aye (Aug 8, 2011)

Verified riot areas map.

London riots / UK riots: verified areas - Google Maps

The scale of shit going down in London is fucking scary.


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## Infinite Recursion (Aug 8, 2011)

Large unitegrated, insular communities with many peoples with a proclivity towards criminal actions contribute to situations like this. I said I didn't know about the situation here, I had confused West Indian with East Indian and assumed that these were 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. What I posted was therefore not relevant to the thread.


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## Fred (Aug 8, 2011)

C2Aye said:


> Verified riot areas map.
> 
> London riots / UK riots: verified areas - Google Maps
> 
> The scale of shit going down in London is fucking scary.



Fucking arseholes, the lot of them. I'm in Wandsworth.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Aug 8, 2011)

C2Aye said:


> Verified riot areas map.
> 
> London riots / UK riots: verified areas - Google Maps
> 
> The scale of shit going down in London is fucking scary.



If you notice, it appears to be spidering along the roads with A designations.

Watch out.


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

Thought I'd update on what I know so far, Brum (birmingham to the americans) is pretty much in the city centre as far as riots are concerned. Just heard though that riots now occuring in Liverpool, a policemen has been stabbed. What is happening here?


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## Demiurge (Aug 8, 2011)

> but these kids rioting don&#8217;t see themselves having a future at all. They have been failed by society as a whole,


(From the blog post quoted on the last page.)

These two assertions bug the hell out of me. People don't get "failed as a society" as much as they "fail to be a society." Every last moron looting and rioting has provided ample evidence that they didn't deserve to be part of the society that they allegedly want to be a part of.

It doesn't matter what color/class/etc you are- if you expect your government to hand your future to you on a silver platter, always expect to be disappointed. If you aren't who you want to be, don't blame your government. And, of all things, don't try to put some sort of pseudo-intellectual political message on people acting like god-damned animals.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Aug 8, 2011)

That's something that a lot of people, especially my generation, don't seem to get. Life really is what you make it, so if you act like a piece of shit, you're life will be a piece of shit. People think everything should be handed to them, and when they don't they jump on the first excuse to go crazy.


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## PeteyG (Aug 8, 2011)

Filmed this from my window in Bristol a bit over an hour ago, still a helicopter hovering about noisily, the odd riot van driving past, a few scumbags passing by.


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## niffnoff (Aug 8, 2011)

PeteyG said:


> Filmed this from my window in Bristol a bit over an hour ago, still a helicopter hovering about noisily, the odd riot van driving past, a few scumbags passing by.




Jeez.
Stay safe man.

I'm not looking forward to the next week or so. I can only see this getting worse.


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## C2Aye (Aug 9, 2011)

Demiurge said:


> (From the blog post quoted on the last page.)
> 
> These two assertions bug the hell out of me. People don't get "failed as a society" as much as they "fail to be a society." Every last moron looting and rioting has provided ample evidence that they didn't deserve to be part of the society that they allegedly want to be a part of.
> 
> It doesn't matter what color/class/etc you are- if you expect your government to hand your future to you on a silver platter, always expect to be disappointed. If you aren't who you want to be, don't blame your government. And, of all things, don't try to put some sort of pseudo-intellectual political message on people acting like god-damned animals.





dragonblade629 said:


> That's something that a lot of people, especially my generation, don't seem to get. Life really is what you make it, so if you act like a piece of shit, you're life will be a piece of shit. People think everything should be handed to them, and when they don't they jump on the first excuse to go crazy.



This exactly.

I try to make parallels with what I've seen in Burma every time I've gone. Basically, generation after generation born in a tyranical dicatorship with no prospects for the future and expectation of a life in, sometimes abject, poverty.

Yet there's none of this sense of entitlement that their lives should be made for them. These kids have a good knowledge of the situation they're in thanks to the internet being more prominent, but they've also grown up with a good sense of culture, tradition and responsibility. They also know the value of hard work. I was so surprised that despite the circumstances, they managed to keep smiles on their faces, be so helpful and welcoming with being hospitable being one of the Burmese people's nicer stereotypes.

When there were uprisings, it wasn't to loot shops, or for material gains. It was because as a society, they collectively knew they were being treated unjustly (I would go much further than this!). Yet they are face with a government and an army who will shoot at a peaceful protest, containing young men and women as well as Buddhist monks, who are meant to be highly respected in Burmese culture. So the people go back to their lives, content to see them out the best they can until the next peaceful protest. They have no prospects in life and possibly no future, yet these people show so much dignity and character and will keep working hard and hopefully raise their kids the same way.

So I'm not expecting wide scale looting and thuggery anytime soon 

Anyhow, that's my super cool story for the day. Those of you in affected areas, stay safe dudes


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 9, 2011)

Riots in Tottenham over shooting death of Mark Duggan « 100gf | Politics and Computers



link said:


> Hundreds of people have gathered in Tottenham to protest the death of Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old father of four named Mark Duggan.





link said:


> Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old father of four named Mark Duggan.





link said:


> Mark Duggan, a father named Mark Duggan.





This whole situation reminds me of:


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## samincolour (Aug 9, 2011)

Shit's gone ridiculous. It's gone from London to Bristol to Birmingham to Nottingham to Liverpool now! Hopefully it won't come too north.

But everyone in London and in the worst parts please please please try and stay safe!


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## Varcolac (Aug 9, 2011)

Someone from Hull just warned Londoners to stay safe, 'cause it's dangerous? Up is down, black is white, cats are biting dogs. Welcome to Bizarro World.

Well, Brixton's still here this morning. That's good. Shops still boarded up on the high street, but the market was on and the morning commute was uneventful.

I feel quite stressed and tired this morning, after sitting up worrying about this and watching it unfold. I've got my laptop and two guitars (my 'save from a burning building' possessions) packed by the door ready to leave at a moment's notice, but it shouldn't come to that.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm right in the middle of London. Hopefully nothing will kick off here (it's being guarded pretty closely) but I'm not exactly at ease right now.

Lots of riot vans parked up by Oxford Circus station. I hope I can get out if things do kick off.

I hate this fucking country.


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

Interesting to see the demographics of people out defending businesses and homes.

Bloody immigrants. Coming over here and defending our communities.


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## Fred (Aug 9, 2011)

London Riots - Labels Affected - 9 Aug 2011 | Clash Music Latest Breaking Music News

Wankers. Apparently Basick was among the _indie_ labels affected.


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

There is a context to London's riots that can't be ignored | Nina Power | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Guardian article worth reading. Which does not at any point condone the rioting at all, though some clowns will no doubt believe it does.


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## liamh (Aug 9, 2011)

They cancelled the West Ham game. 
...Now shit has gotten personal. *grabs shotgun*


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## Chiba666 (Aug 9, 2011)

I can't see this getting any better over the next few days.

Seems extra Police are being drafted in from other areas, but that means other areas will be left short handed if things kick off in other areas.

Good Old Theresa May has ruled out using Water Cannons, How daft is that. May as well tell teh Police to sit in thier vans and let the looters/idiots carry on. The Police need to have every option available to them wether it's water cannons or if the situation demands Rubber Bullets.

If these idiots want to throw rocks and petrol bombs isnt it about time they felt what happens when the other side has had enough and is fed up and tired of having one hand tid behind their.

The Army should be drafted in to help with Fire fighting and first aid. If all else fails I tihnk the sight of a green line of angry soldiers running towards the rioters will make them think twice.

Any of you guys in areas affected, stay safe and keep your heads down.


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

Demiurge said:


> (From the blog post quoted on the last page.)
> 
> These two assertions bug the hell out of me. People don't get "failed as a society" as much as they "fail to be a society." Every last moron looting and rioting has provided ample evidence that they didn't deserve to be part of the society that they allegedly want to be a part of.
> 
> It doesn't matter what color/class/etc you are- if you expect your government to hand your future to you on a silver platter, always expect to be disappointed. If you aren't who you want to be, don't blame your government. And, of all things, don't try to put some sort of pseudo-intellectual political message on people acting like god-damned animals.



Let me try to explain what i think people mean from someone based in a teaching position of education. From what i have seen when i teach in schools in our country its always the 'bad' kids that get everything handed to them. If you are naughty then you get sent on trips to places, you get given extra money, you get extra help when you can't understand something in case you kick off and stop other kids from learning.

Young impressionable people see this as an oportunity to get the things they need. Sure there are some that see hard work as the best remedy to the solution; but how many kids do you know would rather go on a school trip than sit at home and do algebra?

This is all what its about. Impression. When the student riots happened a few months ago they were fighting for a cause. Now this has happened the kids see that its alright to riot and fight the 'system' and 'society' because they have seen people do it before. 

A lot of the general public were in favour of what happened first time round because David Cameron is the ultra douche and his party is ruining this countries economic, health and educational future. Now its happening again kids cant differentiate because they arn't taught right from wrong in the schools... Remember the 'BAD' kids get everything.

I see it as a misguided youth. It's ironic because they say:



youth of today said:


> *'Oh but we're a young generation of misunderstood, unemployed youths discriminated against by government and ultimately forced into a criminalm gang-based lifestyle'*



When they are actually kind of right, they just dont understand what they are talking about . 

On a lighter note though, this kind of shows how uneducated (or hungry) some of these people are:






 (For any Americans thats the really REALLY cheap rice you can buy, its base level supermarket stuff)


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## samincolour (Aug 9, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> Someone from Hull just warned Londoners to stay safe, 'cause it's dangerous? Up is down, black is white, cats are biting dogs. Welcome to Bizarro World.



No riots here mate! And this city is supposed to be the worst in the country to live. At least there's nothing here to break if a riot does happen!


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## samincolour (Aug 9, 2011)

Fred said:


> London Riots - Labels Affected - 9 Aug 2011 | Clash Music Latest Breaking Music News
> 
> Wankers. Apparently Basick was among the _indie_ labels affected.



THIS pissed me off!


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## chimp_spanner (Aug 9, 2011)

This whole thing is pissing me off so bad. First of all, as far as I can tell, this all started because an ARMED MAN was killed by Police. Guns are not legal in the UK, so if you're carrying a fucking gun on you (be it in a holster, a jacket or a sock) then it's 99% certain that you're up to no good. If they didn't use it on him, he would've used it on someone else. So as far as that goes, I have zero sympathy for the man.

Secondly, it shows just how out of touch with reality our politicians are that the level of violence is a surprise to them. Go to any English town on any given night, and you see dozens of these fuckers everywhere. The kind of people that would jump at the chance to create mindless destruction like this. You can single them out from the age of 10 upwards, and you can't say or do shit about it because, for reasons unknown to me, we just accept that that's how kids are now. And the stupid thing is, most of them are only here because our government gave money to their shit head parents to allow them to raise little shit head babies.

Yeah yeah poverty, deprivation, blah blah. Don't want to hear it. Check out those aid appeal videos for the Somalian famine...THAT'S poor. Our poor kids don't know the meaning of the word. Half of them have phones, the internet, and enough money to get pissed out of their heads. In fact, I'd put money on it that half of them aren't even poor. They're just bored thugs.

But like I said, we shouldn't be surprised. We've collectively created an environment that can produce people like this. Everything from the messages we allow our music and media to convey, to our welfare and education system. Everything about this country seems geared to keeping people stupid. All of it is broken. And I think we've passed the point of no return.

Related story: Basick Records lost all of their international stock when rioters torched the Sony/ADA warehouse. If there's a counter movement, I'll be there with a stick with a nail in it.


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

chimp_spanner said:


> This whole thing is pissing me off so bad. First of all, as far as I can tell, this all started because an ARMED MAN was killed by Police. Guns are not legal in the UK, so if you're carrying a fucking gun on you (be it in a holster, a jacket or a sock) then it's 99% certain that you're up to no good. If they didn't use it on him, he would've used it on someone else. So as far as that goes, I have zero sympathy for the man.



There was a protest about the information blackout around his death by his family and friends yeah. A legitimate one. And that was simply the breaking point that started it. This opportunistic nonsense has been bubbling under for some time and root causes need addressed.



> Secondly, it shows just how out of touch with reality our politicians are that the level of violence is a surprise to them. Go to any English town on any given night, and you see dozens of these fuckers everywhere. The kind of people that would jump at the chance to create mindless destruction like this.



It IS surprising. We've not had anything remotely on this scale for 30 years (in the midst of the last depression, as it happens). 



> You can single them out from the age of 10 upwards, and you can't say or do shit about it because, for reasons unknown to me, we just accept that that's how kids are now. And the stupid thing is, most of them are only here because our government gave money to their shit head parents to allow them to raise little shit head babies.



Good Daily Mail response.



> Yeah yeah poverty, deprivation, blah blah. Don't want to hear it. Check out those aid appeal videos for the Somalian famine...THAT'S poor. Our poor kids don't know the meaning of the word. Half of them have phones, the internet, and enough money to get pissed out of their heads. In fact, I'd put money on it that half of them aren't even poor. They're just bored thugs.



Comparing poverty between nations is unhelpful. Our nation has the lowest class movement in the developed world, some of the areas involved are by far the poorest in the nation and several are the places worst effected by the cuts and have double the national average unemployment. Now people aren't out there rioting because of that directly, it's no protest, but these things have created a background of hopelessness and an attitude of "If I want it, I might as well take it, I'm never going to be able to _earn_ it.



> But like I said, we shouldn't be surprised. We've collectively created an environment that can produce people like this. Everything from the messages we allow our music and media to convey, to our welfare and education system. Everything about this country seems geared to keeping people stupid. All of it is broken. And I think we've passed the point of no return.



What messages do you think are conveyed and in what way do you think the welfare system and education contribute? I can imagine what you might be angling at regards welfare, though I'll disagree, but can you elaborate on the others?



> Related story: Basick Records lost all of their international stock when rioters torched the Sony/ADA warehouse. If there's a counter movement, I'll be there with a stick with a nail in it.



There already are people, in large numbers, out defending businesses and communities and social networking sites organising clean-up operations. Best find your stick


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## cwhitey2 (Aug 9, 2011)

The first I heard of the riots was actually this morning when I watched the news at 5:30 

The one HUGE thing they left out (at least on american news channels) is what actually started the riots...

The news channel only showed black people looting 

I was sitting there wondering why they were even covering this story if they weren't going to give us any actual info on to why this happened. 

After reading this thread...everything makes since now. Not that i'm picking sides in the matter, but anytime race is involved with police it never ends well...


Good Luck


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## TimSE (Aug 9, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> Some people are saying that the London Zoo was attacked by rioters, with various animals such as tigers and penguins being released. The only news source on Google News that has something about this is saying it's untrue, just like the earlier reports about the children's hospital(thank god).
> 
> London Zoo reports apparently untrue, tigers and other animals not free #londonriots « 100gf | Politics and Computers



Man i really hope that i is untrue. if it was itd be a really cruel thing to do to say the least!


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 9, 2011)

I am genuinely disgusted by my country today.....to the extent that I no longer have the words to express my feelings adequately.


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

Pictured: Escaped Siberian tiger enjoys a night-time stroll in a southern Italian town | Mail Online

Tiger claim false


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## Demiurge (Aug 9, 2011)

chronocide said:


> There is a context to London's riots that can't be ignored | Nina Power | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Guardian article worth reading. Which does not at any point condone the rioting at all, though some clowns will no doubt believe it does.



I think that the author fails to tackle the moral gulf between validity of rage and the actions that come from that rage. There would probably be difficulty in finding someone who doesn't find issues like unemployment, race/class division, and the disparities in standard of living to be troubling issues; _however_, putting a brick through a private business' window is going to fix nothing. Sure, it would be useful to see that the riots are evidence of more than thuggery and mob-mentality so it's not all for nothing, but these actions do not constitute a valid referendum.


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## TimSE (Aug 9, 2011)

Plug said:


> Pictured: Escaped Siberian tiger enjoys a night-time stroll in a southern Italian town | Mail Online
> 
> Tiger claim false



Seeing as this was my main consern, this pleases me


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

TimSE said:


> Seeing as this was my main consern, this pleases me



I would have ridden it like a horse 


Have some food for thought (tinfoil hat):

Maybe they arn't tackling this in the right way, and Cameron is so calm and collected about this all, because as soon as he gets back to parliament hes going to pass state legislations for curfews in poorer areas. Because there is essentially mass panic people will just go along with it, shooting themselves in the foot. Fear is power. Don't trust Cameron. This all seems too 'organised' to be your standard run off the mill riots.

Look at the bigger picture


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

Demiurge said:


> I think that the author fails to tackle the moral gulf between validity of rage and the actions that come from that rage. There would probably be difficulty in finding someone who doesn't find issues like unemployment, race/class division, and the disparities in standard of living to be troubling issues; _however_, putting a brick through a private business' window is going to fix nothing. Sure, it would be useful to see that the riots are evidence of more than thuggery and mob-mentality so it's not all for nothing, but these actions do not constitute a valid referendum.



They're not intending to tackle it, and that's fair enough. There's no indication that they believe it to be justified, only that disregarding it as scumbags with no context is dangerous. That attitude invites us to sweep it under the carpet and wait for it to happen again. The people involved are arseholes, no question, but this isn't so widespread and fast-growing for no reason.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 9, 2011)

Plug said:


> I would have ridden it like a horse
> 
> 
> Have some food for thought (tinfoil hat):
> ...



Interesting idea.

I'm actually surprised it's taken this long for riots to happen. Lower middle class are already feeling the pinch heavily so I can only imagine what the lowest class are feeling. The violence may seem to be mindless, but if the intent was to upset those in power then they have certainly succeeded.


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## McKay (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i_04_bhquU

They should be shot. On the spot.


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## niffnoff (Aug 9, 2011)

Audioboo / Leana Hosea speaks to Croydon looters on @bbcworldservice how disgusting is this shit


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I said not long after Cameron was elected that the way things are going we'd end up having riots just like France and other European countries have had in the past couple of years. Once I got over the initial shock, I wasn't at all suprised. 

The warning signs have been there. The banks and politicians have gotten braver and braver in terms of their greed, and the people have suffered as a result. We tried to keep everyone happy with the benefits system, but this only created a generation of lazy people who believe they are entitled to something, that just because they're a British citizen they deserve a good job and money and whatnot. They don't think being a good person and hard work is necessary, they just want hand outs. You end up with a poor generation of kids as greedy as the bankers and politicians. If they can take huge bonuses and cut public spending to line their pockets, why shouldn't the lower class, in a wose financial position, do whatever they want? Combine that with a lack of decent political and moral education, and you have a dangerous mix on your hands. 

The police tried to deal with it, but our prisons are full and our judges are morons, so most of these criminals walk out in days without getting charged. Those that do get charged and go to prison, end up finding it's like a fucking hotel. You get a widescreen tv, better meals than you got outside, and lots of other criminals to hook up with and learn the trade from. 

That sends out one simple message: There is no accountability. There is no accountability for the rich and so there is none for the poor. The police, teachers, parents, they've all lost control and respect from the young generation. Without respect there is no fear of punishment, and without fear of punishment morals are useless. 

Now I'm not saying these kids have an excuse, they're fucking monsters, however they are monsters created by a flawed society and government. If anything good comes from these riots, it will be that social and political issues concerning the fairness of the way this country is governed, and how the young community is treated will be addressed.



Plug said:


> When they are actually kind of right, they just dont understand what they are talking about .


 
I see you stole my quote from Facebook.  I agree th government and society as a whole has played a huge part in shaping the current generation into what it is now, but that is no excuse. Accountability is needed.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 9, 2011)

My bassist's mum owns an optician's in Hackney, I just found out that he saw it being looted on the news and now they don't have a source of income, plus the fact he's sent his bass for repairs at his local music shop which stands a chance of being looted too.

Fuck these stupid arseholes.


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> My bassist's mum owns an optician's in Hackney, I just found out that he saw it being looted on the news and now they don't have a source of income, plus the fact he's sent his bass for repairs at his local music shop which stands a chance of being looted too.
> 
> Fuck these stupid arseholes.



Ahh bugger him, he's only a bass player 










Seriously though thats bad man, i hope everything turns out ok for him.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 9, 2011)

he'd probably laugh at that.

But in all seriousness yeah man, me too.


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## samincolour (Aug 9, 2011)

Riots in my hometown now (Hull). It's come up north shiiiiit!

Fuck it all, Right after work I'm going to stroll past everyone who is looting, straight into our practice room and lay down some fuckin riffs ready for next weeks shows. Priorities!


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

samincolour said:


> Riots in my hometown now (Hull). It's come up north shiiiiit!
> 
> Fuck it all, Right after work I'm going to stroll past everyone who is looting, straight into our practice room and lay down some fuckin riffs ready for next weeks shows. Priorities!



BAM. Thats how we do it up north.


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, Cornwalls Safe at least....

If there is a Riot down Ere' 

I'm in the Rural Areas so.


FAWK DEM RIOTERS!


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## McKay (Aug 9, 2011)

Pooluke41 said:


> Well, Cornwalls Safe at least....
> 
> If there is a Riot down Ere'
> 
> ...



Speak for yourself bro, I'm in the last city before land's end.


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## samincolour (Aug 9, 2011)

Plug said:


> BAM. Thats how we do it up north.



If you're Northern, you're doing it right!


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

Nothings gonna break out up here. Glaswegians are far too lethargic to bother rioting unless someone manages to shoehorn bigotry in.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I think Sawbridgeworth is okay, everyone is upper-middle class and have hunting rifles.


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## chimp_spanner (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm pretty safe here in St Osyth. It's just full of old people and sometimes cows and pigs. I think we have a llama too. Can't be sure, though.


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

chimp_spanner said:


> I'm pretty safe here in St Osyth. It's just full of old people and sometimes cows and pigs. I think we have a llama too. Can't be sure, though.



You never know..


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

McKay said:


> Speak for yourself bro, I'm in the last city before land's end.



I'm right next to a forest, so if they did hit. CAMPING TRIP!

With all of the dogs.....


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

Morrissey Gives His Verdict On London Riots | News @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
*
MORRISSEY WAS PLAYING IN LONDON. AND NO ONE THOUGHT TO BURN THE BUILDING DOWN HE WAS IN?!?!


WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR PUBLIC*


----------



## McKay (Aug 9, 2011)

Plug said:


> Morrissey Gives His Verdict On London Riots | News @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
> *
> MORRISSEY WAS PLAYING IN LONDON. AND NO ONE THOUGHT TO BURN THE BUILDING DOWN HE WAS IN?!?!
> 
> ...


----------



## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

Plug said:


> Morrissey Gives His Verdict On London Riots | News @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
> *
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR PUBLIC*




Too much Mcdonalds...


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## chimp_spanner (Aug 9, 2011)

Pooluke41 said:


> You never know..



Are they *squints* Sand People?


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I think Morrissey is living in a wonderful dream world where people give a flying fuck about what he thinks.


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

chimp_spanner said:


> Are they *squints* Sand People?




No.


HELLS GRANNIES.


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## Fred (Aug 9, 2011)

photoshoplooter

Amazing. And Morrissey might be absurdly outspoken about all manner of things, but you've got to cut the guy some slack when you consider how many incredible songs/lyrics he's written.


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## Varcolac (Aug 9, 2011)

You can't burn down the Academy. Opeth and Pain of Salvation are playing there in November. So are Manowar. I will defend that building until death.

While in a broader context I have immense sympathy for the rioters, as a generation failed by the state, when you get down to brass tacks the looters are just terrifying.

It's weird. In a wide and abstract setting their plight is tragic, as a group of people failed by rotten carrots and painless sticks. Up close and personal on the other hand they're scary cunts with knives who can fuck right off and leave me alone, thanks. I certainly wouldn't deny that there are deep long-term social causes for unrest, but to blame all on that is to deny these men and women their basic human agency. Generations of neglect don't make people burn a building down. Public service cuts don't compel people to loot their local Argos. The rioters are human beings; men and women like you and I. They made a choice. In the past few days they've chosen violence and crime. I can't forgive that.

I'm going home early to help with the Brixton post-riot cleanup. Civilization will prevail. If it doesn't, it's been a good ride. If any cunt tries to start shit this evening, I'll beat 'em off with a broom.


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## daemon barbeque (Aug 9, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Now I'm not saying these kids have an excuse, they're fucking monsters, however they are monsters created by a flawed society and government. If anything good comes from these riots, it will be that social and political issues concerning the fairness of the way this country is governed, and how the young community is treated will be addressed.





Funny that some minorities and immigrants are protecting the streets, shops and appartments from the looters.
Shouldn't they loot together with others? Where they not in England to enjoy only the social services and chill, where useless for the economy and destroying the peaceful culture of Britain?


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## Guitarman700 (Aug 9, 2011)

Pisses me off that all the media in my country cares about is the fucking stock markets. They haven't even mentioned the riots.
REPORT ABOUT SOME REAL, WORLD EVENTS GODDAMMIT!


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## daemon barbeque (Aug 9, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> Pisses me off that all the media in my country cares about is the fucking stock markets. They haven't even mentioned the riots.
> REPORT ABOUT SOME REAL, WORLD EVENTS GODDAMMIT!



Why? The rioters are looting, meanwhile the "big boys" looting more on the stock market, and try to make safe that those looters may never ever have the chance to have something to eat again. 
The little guys steal from the middle guys, The big guys steal from the small and the little guys.

I feel for the middle class here. They are all fucked no matter what.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 9, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> Pisses me off that all the media in my country cares about is the fucking stock markets. They haven't even mentioned the riots.
> REPORT ABOUT SOME REAL, WORLD EVENTS GODDAMMIT!


 
To be fair, that is a big issue compared to this. Britain will survive this, London has survived a plague, fire and war so we certainly aren't going to be beaten by some chavs.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd hope that I'm safe here in Amersham, but I'm hearing rumours of things kicking off in High Wycombe later, which is quite close. That would be bad news. I live a fair way away from any shops though, which is good I suppose.

These looters are cunts. I'll say once again that the police should be armed.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I can't believe they're not using water cannons.


----------



## PeteyG (Aug 9, 2011)




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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I can't believe they're not using water cannons.



We don't use them on the mainland. I don't think we should be starting to, either. After it's been done once...


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## liamh (Aug 9, 2011)

McKay said:


> Speak for yourself bro, I'm in the last city before land's end.


 Truro is a city!


----------



## McKay (Aug 9, 2011)

liamh said:


> Truro is a city!



The last real city. 

I'm from Truro/Cornwall, I'm allowed to say these things.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 9, 2011)

I can't believe community support workers are pulling out "the kids not having anything to do and being bored therefore rioting/looting" 

What a cop out


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

McKay said:


> The last real city.
> 
> I'm from Truro/Cornwall, I'm allowed to say these things.



Join the Club.


----------



## Pooluke41 (Aug 9, 2011)

liamh said:


> Truro is a city!




A pretty Shite one at that.


----------



## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)




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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't find this humourous, but I figured some people here might.

photoshoplooter


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I quite like things making fools of the wanks, I must say.


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## Triple-J (Aug 9, 2011)

It's now hit where I am in Manchester so I've had a lot of concerened texts/phones calls in the past hour from people checking if I'm ok but I'm not actually that worried really cause the Glasgow rangers football riots in Manchester a few years back were much much bigger than this as that took over the whole city centre whereas this is just the main high street and shopping areas.


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## Dan (Aug 9, 2011)

Well lets all just have a nice cup of tea and stay inside tonight shall we! 

I don't want to have to lay some smackdown if any of you get hurt.


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## Overtone (Aug 9, 2011)

Got a trip to england on thursday... I have to take the train through the main stations out of london, but to a pretty safe destination... Any cause for worry? Im considering packing a hammer in my checked luggage just in case some fucker wants my guitar.


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't think you should be particularly concerned. I've to travel via Birmingham city centre on Thursday but I'm not much worried. Keep an eye on how things progress over tonight I guess.


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## niffnoff (Aug 9, 2011)

London seems a bit calmer from what I am gathering with the 16k of units. 
In brum, seems a bit dodgey especially around the wolverhampton west brom area now. Which is where I am. ^ just keep your wits around but hopefully shouldn't be to bad


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah I've been keeping on top of what's happening with friends down there, I used to live there so there's lots of folks updates to watch on facebook!

A good friend was working in a pub last night who had to lock themselves inside for a few hours and the pub was looted after they'd gone home, and my flatmate traveled down yesterday to arrive in the middle of it with her lift unable to get into New Street to collect her. I was worried about both of them but I'm arriving at midday and we've two nights for the police to get clamped down. So singers crossed.


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## niffnoff (Aug 9, 2011)

chronocide said:


> Yeah I've been keeping on top of what's happening with friends down there, I used to live there so there's lots of folks updates to watch on facebook!
> 
> A good friend was working in a pub last night who had to lock themselves inside for a few hours and the pub was looted after they'd gone home, and my flatmate traveled down yesterday to arrive in the middle of it with her lift unable to get into New Street to collect her. I was worried about both of them but I'm arriving at midday and we've two nights for the police to get clamped down. So singers crossed.



Fair enough mate, just really a matter of keep your head down. All shops are closed from 4pm in some places even the pubs. So wierd....


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## Ninetyfour (Aug 9, 2011)

Manchester's been brought down to the ground, if any of you have heard of Dawsons, it's been utterly destroyed which pissed me right off.


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## JPMike (Aug 9, 2011)

All I am going to say is, just be safe people and stay away from danger.

We had the same situation here in Greece a few years ago, when a 15 year old got killed by a policeman and Athens became a war zone. Trying to go downtown Athens, was impossible and the rioters were spreading towards the suburbs, after 5 days or so things settled down but the area was wrecked. High end boutiques with clothes, jewelry, etc were all wrecked and stolen. So I kinda understand what's going on in London in a way.

Situations, like these are not the best for any civilised human. Killing someone with or without reason, in my opinion is not good, but destroying what's not yours at least to me it's not civilised. I don't want to fuel anything by saying this. I just don't want to see any more people get hurt or killed or whatsoever. Sad facts like these defile the history of the human race. Our world should evolve in a good way. 

I wish all of you citizens of London to be safe and have reasoning before you take any action. Rioting might mean something, but the Voice of the righteous is stronger than any act of violence without any reasoning.


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## chronocide (Aug 9, 2011)

I recall that in Athens, as a classicist particularly it made me even more sad than I would have been had it ben elsewhere, all that happening in the home of civilisation.

The news seems to be a bit more positive this evening, so fingers crossed.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 9, 2011)

^Well, home of democracy really


----------



## JPMike (Aug 10, 2011)

chronocide said:


> I recall that in Athens, as a classicist particularly it made me even more sad than I would have been had it ben elsewhere, all that happening in the home of civilisation.



Not everyone is civilised here, don't forget we are in the 21st century and the chances people are uneducated is even bigger. Plus, even we forget sometimes who our ancestors were and what they did. Most of the times, we only remember it when we have to brag about our country. It's just stupid, also remember we got some "asian" ways of manners from our neighbours ruling us for around 400 hundred years. 

But I can assure you half of the rioters were also rich kids just going downtown acting crazy.

Generally, societies these days are kinda f***ed up, we are multicultural(not being a racist, just stating facts), different political parties, anarchists, people with psychological disorders. I mean, there are a lot of factors that can trigger someone's violent actions. 

Nevertheless, rioters are a mix of people, some take advantage of the situation, others are true rioters being annoyed by the reason that triggered that action and so on. I just don't want to see people get hurt.



Captain Shoggoth said:


> ^Well, home of democracy really



Home of many things, LOL!! That sounded Elitist!!  

Just be safe, guys!! Take care of yourselves and really, don't go out of your houses if there's not really a reason. 

I will be checking the news to see how things are going.

P.S. London is a beautiful city, I have visited it numerous times, plus it's the center of the west world, take care of it as something precious and be proud of it.


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## samincolour (Aug 10, 2011)

Apparently in Hull last night, riots were planned, but nothing actually happened and all the police had to deal with was the mass of curious teenagers that flocked into the centre to have a look haha. 

Hey ho. Hope you're all OK in London, Manc, Birmingham and everywhere else, it seems London was pretty quiet last night?


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## Ninetyfour (Aug 10, 2011)

I think it's all quietened down what with the mention of water cannons and rubber bullets. Typical chav, gives a beating but can't take one.


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## daemon barbeque (Aug 10, 2011)

Ninetyfour said:


> I think it's all quietened down what with the mention of water cannons and rubber bullets. Typical chav, gives a beating but can't take one.



Nah, the reason is not that. There are nothing fancy to loot anymore. The right size of nikes, the white I pods, the basmati rice are all gone. We might see this again after the insurance companies pay and shops recover


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## chronocide (Aug 10, 2011)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> ^Well, home of democracy really



Well yes, in that it's not the fertile crescent. But in terms of modern civilisation. You know what I meant at 2 in the morning 



Three dead in Birmingham last night. Run over amidst trouble.

Also:


> Libyan foreign ministry spokesman Khalid Ka'im has called on world governments to take action over the unrest in the UK. David Cameron has lost legitimacy and "must go", Libya's official news agency Jana reports. Libya "demands that the international community not stand with arms folded in the face of this gross aggression against the rights of the British people, who are demanding its right to rule its country", the report said.



That's genuine.

Also, after Boris' calls for no Police cuts today, the Home Office response:



> "The urgent need to take action to address our budget deficit is clear from events across the world right now. The reductions in the police budget for the Spending Review period are manageable. There is no question that the police will still have the resources to do their important work. At the end of this Spending Review period, the police will still have enough officers to deploy in the kind of numbers we've seen in the past couple of days."


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## Dan (Aug 10, 2011)

^ ohh the Irony in what the Libyans are saying about our country . You all know my feelings on that situation, and it just goes to prove a point IMO . 

As for police spending the government will spin it to say that even WITH the cuts the police still work at full capacity. What they wont tell you is how many million it cost the government in 'other' expenditures. 

Meh back to my Tea.


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## chronocide (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm keen to see what Fox News have to say. They spun the Student Protests as riots against big government. You know, the exact opposite of what they were


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## Dan (Aug 10, 2011)

chronocide said:


> I'm keen to see what Fox News have to say. They spun the Student Protests as riots against big government. You know, the exact opposite of what they were



I was expecting the murdoch empire to hit back bigtime against the government after what happened earlier on this year, but its remained pretty open minded about the whole situation. The problem is even the 'impartial' news services are corrupt. You will never get a clear and factual picture of events because people don't want you to know the whole story.

Same with the Libya quote, people wont ever know whats actually going on there or will hear about the good things that have happened in that country over the past 3 decades because we want Gadaffi out and we want his natural resources. But thats for another thread


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## niffnoff (Aug 10, 2011)

Plug said:


> Same with the Libya quote, people wont ever know whats actually going on there or will hear about the good things that have happened in that country over the past 3 decades because we want Gadaffi out and we want his natural resources. But thats for another thread



The ending of that statement made me think of waynes world with the ozzy story "Beat him to death with his own shoes, but that's a different story all together" 

But on topic, I don't think you will ever really know what's going on unless you look for yourself. The truth really isn't gonna be told by the goverment for the reason they don't want to or just want to cover it up. Would like to know how you can say that these riots are protests right now. Seem to me like "gimme the nikes!" Has there been any updates lately? I've heard they are considering the water tanks finally after 24 hours notice.... Eat that Theresa May!


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## Dan (Aug 10, 2011)

niffnoff said:


> The ending of that statement made me think of waynes world with the ozzy story "Beat him to death with his own shoes, but that's a different story all together"
> 
> But on topic, I don't think you will ever really know what's going on unless you look for yourself. The truth really isn't gonna be told by the goverment for the reason they don't want to or just want to cover it up. Would like to know how you can say that these riots are protests right now. Seem to me like "gimme the nikes!" Has there been any updates lately? I've heard they are considering the water tanks finally after 24 hours notice.... Eat that Theresa May!



Firstly:



Secondly I believe the water canons are a scare tactic. According to Northern Ireland police services they arn't shipping them anywhere as parade season is coming up and they need them just in case. This would have been sorted days ago if they had just used tear gas


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## Varcolac (Aug 10, 2011)

My bit of London was pretty safe last night. Huge police presence around the station in the evening, convoys of police vehicles going through to other less peaceful boroughs. There was some jazz fusion band playing in a park near Brixton station, seems people are giving a community-inspired two-fingered salute to any prospective rioters.

Friend of a friend lost everything but her violin. She's been in all the papers. Picture of her in the Metro this morning - tattooed chick in a black dress on page 9 - headline "Violinist escapes flat fire." Petrol-bombing arseholes are even more pointless than the looters, as that takes it from opportunist theft to wanton destruction.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 10, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> My bit of London was pretty safe last night. Huge police presence around the station in the evening, convoys of police vehicles going through to other less peaceful boroughs. There was some jazz fusion band playing in a park near Brixton station, seems people are giving a community-inspired two-fingered salute to any prospective rioters.
> 
> Friend of a friend lost everything but her violin. She's been in all the papers. Picture of her in the Metro this morning - tattooed chick in a black dress on page 9 - headline "Violinist escapes flat fire." Petrol-bombing arseholes are even more pointless than the looters, as that takes it from opportunist theft to wanton destruction.



yeah I sure that girl on the news

Edit; wtf i meant saw that girl lol


----------



## Blake1970 (Aug 10, 2011)

Looks like they got some cameras everywhere over there.

SHOP A MORON | The Sun |News


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## Ninetyfour (Aug 10, 2011)




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## Lewk (Aug 10, 2011)

the view outside my yard last night

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.239548649418406.58300.188539951185943

I went to town to see what was going on (they set fire to the abandoned college) and got chased back down the road by riot police and dogs  very minor stuff compared to the rest of the county, though


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 10, 2011)

Lewk said:


> the view outside my yard last night
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.239548649418406.58300.188539951185943
> 
> I went to town to see what was going on (they set fire to the abandoned college) and got chased back down the road by riot police and dogs  very minor stuff compared to the rest of the county, though



Where are you? Stay safe man.


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## Explorer (Aug 10, 2011)

Wondering how people know how to get their rioting on?

I've read several news stories at this point that there is a lot of texting going on, in this vein: "Want to pick up free TVs? Grab some cash? We're going to start a riot in this place! Be there!"

Blackberry and others will be cooperating with police, but it sounds like an ongoing criminal enterprise, with opportunistic thieves rather than the truly needy. 

The worst thing about that possibility is that people who are sincere about wanting to help the disadvantaged, as well as those who are genuinely disadvantaged, will look foolish and dishonest thanks to the wolves in sheep's clothing who are currently rioting. Those who are arguing that we need to understand the thieves are making a bad assumption....


----------



## Xaios (Aug 10, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Wondering how people know how to get their rioting on?
> 
> I've read several news stories at this point that there is a lot of texting going on, in this vein: "Want to pick up free TVs? Grab some cash? We're going to start a riot in this place! Be there!"
> 
> Blackberry and others will be cooperating with police, but it sounds like an ongoing criminal enterprise, with opportunistic thieves rather than the truly needy.



Agreed, and this is something no one ever talks about. Social networking and the ability to communicate instantly en masse is a double edged sword. People in Iran managed to use it to great effect to organize protests against a corrupt regime, despite said government's best efforts to censor them. Unfortunately in this situation, all it seems to be doing is giving delinquent jackasses more opportunity to steal and destroy just to get their kicks.

If there's any justice in the world, it's this: when the Vancouver Canucks lost in the Stanley Cup finals earlier this year, there was a riot in downtown Vancouver. It wasn't started by genuine hockey fans, but rather people had actually showed up downtown already prepared with ski masks and hammers and crap, ready to incite the crowd into rioting at the first opportunity so that they could steal from nearby stores under the veil of chaos.

However, it didn't last for more than a few hours. In addition, people used social networking to actually identify those responsible, and it was reported in the news that many of them lost their jobs. I just remember one young guy who was being interviewed that had been a part of the riot, he was apologizing for his part, and was utterly in tears. He had lost his job over it because he had been identified by social networking and his employer gave him the boot for it.

In addition, it really helped organize a cleanup. Literally thousands of people showed up to clean up the downtown and to basically give the world the message "this rioting crap is not what we're about."

Hopefully the more dutiful citizens of London and the surrounding areas can do something similar.


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## chronocide (Aug 10, 2011)

There's already been substantial clean-up operations started via social networking, yeah. Started about 48 hours before our Prime Minister managed to so much as make a statement.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 10, 2011)




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## GazPots (Aug 11, 2011)

Comedy at it's finest.


----------



## Xaios (Aug 11, 2011)

chronocide said:


> There's already been substantial clean-up operations started via social networking, yeah. Started about 48 hours before our Prime Minister managed to so much as make a statement.



To be fair, wasn't David Cameron on vacation at the time? And didn't he cut short said vacation to come and deal with the situation?


----------



## Dan (Aug 11, 2011)

Xaios said:


> To be fair, wasn't David Cameron on vacation at the time? And didn't he cut short said vacation to come and deal with the situation?



Too much too late IMO, the guy is fuelled by greed. Imagine a male updated Thatcher. I don't like him at all.





In other news. You guys should read this, very interesting stuff:

An Open Letter to David Cameron&#8217;s Parents « Nathaniel Tapley


----------



## daemon barbeque (Aug 11, 2011)

Plug said:


> Too much too late IMO, the guy is fuelled by greed. Imagine a male updated Thatcher. I don't like him at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am very impressed


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 12, 2011)

Does anyone think this whole mess will have any measurable effects on the London Olympics?


----------



## Dvaienat (Aug 12, 2011)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Does anyone think this whole mess will have any measurable effects on the London Olympics?


 
According to the news, if the rioting continues, Germany has offered to hold the Olympics.


----------



## Explorer (Aug 14, 2011)

And now, the aftermath. 

There's a great effort to identify those whose images were captured looting and rioting. Quite a few have been nicked so far.

Several people have been charged with breaching the peace for using social networking to encourage rioting.

Ongoing criminal enterprises and US-style gangs were definitely a factor.

AP ENTERPRISE: UK gangs thrive in August riots

The police are engaging American gang experts to go after the problem.

And, now many places will be evicting estate residents guilty of being involved. 

Weekly benefits will likely be cut for those who participated as well. 

People are being encouraged to shop looters, and some parents are shopping their own kids. 

The thing I find most interesting is that most of the reports about the origins of the riots don't mention any violence towards the police on the part of the person who was shot. It's a weird blind spot, and not being aware of the real circumstances of the shooting can severely skew perception of the origins. Police gunning down a minority for no reason can make people jump to all kinds of conclusions, just as knowing that someone had shot at police can lead to a different line of thinking.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 14, 2011)

Explorer said:


> And now, the aftermath.
> 
> There's a great effort to identify those whose images were captured looting and rioting. Quite a few have been nicked so far.
> 
> ...



Yeah the initial report suggested that the man named Mark Duggan shot at police and the police retaliated with lethal force.But it seems Mark Duggan did not shoot at police but perhaps the police thought he was about to or a danger to the public/police.

Regardless, the guy had a gun on him and was a known drug dealer.I see no mistake in the police action.You carry a gun and deal drugs you deserve to get gunned down.


----------



## BucketheadRules (Aug 15, 2011)

Wingchunwarrior said:


> You carry a gun and deal drugs you deserve to get gunned down.


 
I wouldn't say they "deserve to get gunned down" but if they do get gunned down I can see why it happened. They would have had it coming, but they don't actively deserve it IMO, unless they kickstart something.

Saying that, Mark Duggan's death was justified IMO. He was, as you say, a known drug dealer who was armed at the time he was shot. The police were right to do it, regardless of his race or whatever. If he'd been white it would have been equally justified. Skin colour doesn't come into it. He was an armed drug dealer.

The police are allowed to fire when they perceive that human lives are in danger. I think they probably had a good reason to shoot this guy.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 15, 2011)

BucketheadRules said:


> I wouldn't say they "deserve to get gunned down" but if they do get gunned down I can see why it happened. They would have had it coming, but they don't actively deserve it IMO, unless they kickstart something.
> 
> Saying that, Mark Duggan's death was justified IMO. He was, as you say, a known drug dealer who was armed at the time he was shot. The police were right to do it, regardless of his race or whatever. If he'd been white it would have been equally justified. Skin colour doesn't come into it. He was an armed drug dealer.
> 
> The police are allowed to fire when they perceive that human lives are in danger. I think they probably had a good reason to shoot this guy.



No you're right, they don't deserve to get gunned down.I actually didn't mean that but was too lazy to correct it.What I meant was I show no sympathy towards drug dealers who carry guns who get shot by the police


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## Ninetyfour (Aug 15, 2011)

What's everyone's opinions on the evictions? Not entirely sure what I think at the moment.

OT: post 100 i luv u guise


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## Varcolac (Aug 15, 2011)

Ninetyfour said:


> What's everyone's opinions on the evictions? Not entirely sure what I think at the moment.
> 
> OT: post 100 i luv u guise



Evictions are entirely fair if the tenant can be demonstrated to have breached the terms of their tenancy aggreement.

However, some of the stuff I've seen has been jumping the gun like a moron. I read of a woman getting threatened with eviction because her son was _accused_ of taking part in riots. That sounds more like a heavyhanded extrajudicial punishment to me. That's not good, especially from the British legal system which came up with that whole "No free man shall be captured, and or imprisoned, or disseised of his freehold, and or of his liberties, or of his free customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or in any way destroyed, nor will we proceed against him by force or proceed against him by arms, but by the lawful judgment of his peers, and or by the law of the land."" stuff. 

It also means that the offenders on the lowest incomes (in social housing) get punished an order of magnitude harsher than those who own or rent their own homes. And yes, people with real jobs have been convicted of riot-related offences this week. This whole thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 16, 2011)

It seems the government has been forced to realise there are major social issues regarding parenting, teaching, policing etc and hopefully will address these.

I am worried about the police force cuts though. There were 16,000 police officers in London during the riots, and that is the number that will be cut next year. That is a moronic decision that needs to be addressed.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 16, 2011)

David Cameron is finally speaking out about what we all know is a problem - human rights being dragged too far and seemingly overshadowing responsibility, and Heath & Safety drowning out common sense.

If he means what he says, then it's music to my ears.

However, I reckon it's him talking bullshit again. I'm sure we won't see a change in our attitudes, and the government has more important things to do than push the issue (despite what DC says).

I also think that cutting the police is a ridiculous idea.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 16, 2011)

He says a lot of shit, but most of it is just to make it look like he's doing something.


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## Guitarman700 (Aug 16, 2011)

David Cameron is a cunt.
<American
(You know it's going down now.)


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## Varcolac (Aug 16, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> David Cameron is a cunt.
> <American
> (You know it's going down now.)



Oh, we've known this for a good while now. No need to tell us.


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## Guitarman700 (Aug 16, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> Oh, we've known this for a good while now. No need to tell us.



I know, but when an American says cunt, you know shit is gonna go down.


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## BigPhi84 (Aug 16, 2011)

Cunt, cunt cunt. 

_**points finger**_
_"You're a cunt."
"You're a cunt."
"You're a cunt."
"I don't know you."
"You're a cunt."
"You're a cunt."
"You're cool"
"You're a cunt."
"And LASTLY, You're a cunt."
"Fuck you cunts, I'm outta here!!!"_


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 16, 2011)

God you sound like kids drawing pictures of penises.  OMG WE'RE SO NAUGHTY TROLOLOL.


EDIT - Way off topic.


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## Leuchty (Aug 16, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> God you sound like kids drawing pictures of penises.  OMG WE'RE SO NAUGHTY TROLOLOL.
> 
> 
> EDIT - Way off topic.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 17, 2011)

Absolutely ridiculous.

BBC News - PM defends &#039;tough&#039; riot sentences handed out by courts


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## drmosh (Aug 17, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> It seems the government has been forced to realise there are major social issues regarding parenting, teaching, policing etc and hopefully will address these.
> 
> I am worried about the police force cuts though. There were 16,000 police officers in London during the riots, and that is the number that will be cut next year. That is a moronic decision that needs to be addressed.



Not quite, the number will be cut down to just below current levels in 2 years or so. I think the final number is around 32000 in 2 years, down from ~35000 next year. 
It's fucking idiotic to cut police levels imo.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 17, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> BBC News - PM defends &#039;tough&#039; riot sentences handed out by courts



Can I ask why that is ridiculous?


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## chronocide (Aug 17, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> BBC News - PM defends &#039;tough&#039; riot sentences handed out by courts




Stupid. Dear me.



Wingchunwarrior said:


> Can I ask why that is ridiculous?



Saying "Lets start a riot" on Facebook (especially with none resulting) is an "I'm an arsehole" crime, not a "sexual assault equivalent jailtime" crime.


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## XEN (Aug 17, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> BBC News - PM defends &#039;tough&#039; riot sentences handed out by courts


4 years for Facebook posts for one guy and 18 months for theft for another?
WTF


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## Varcolac (Aug 17, 2011)

There's also a case of one gentleman getting a single night in a police cell for stealing £100 worth of Burberry shirts, while another man received 6 months for stealing a £3.50 bottle of water. This rush to punish has resulted in frankly insane discrepancies in sentencing.


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## drmosh (Aug 18, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> There's also a case of one gentleman getting a single night in a police cell for stealing £100 worth of Burberry shirts, while another man received 6 months for stealing a £3.50 bottle of water. This rush to punish has resulted in frankly insane discrepancies in sentencing.



Another result of rushing this stuff through the courts as quickly as possible with little instruction.
I can understand why they did it though, get them all locked up asap and scare anyone else who might be thinking of doing the same.


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## Dan (Aug 18, 2011)

drmosh said:


> Another result of rushing this stuff through the courts as quickly as possible with little instruction.
> I can understand why they did it though, get them all locked up asap and scare anyone else who might be thinking of doing the same.



The problem is it's already done though. Some mother of 2 got 3 years for RECIEVING stolen goods. It's just mental. The people that will get away with it are the ones that have done the worst and makes the general publics life a misery on a daily basis whilst people who arn't completely to blame or did only petty things will be punished the most. It's judges trying to look hard against our PM and MP's who don't know how to run the country. You know what, thats probably the best way to describe this:

*OUR CO*CONSERVATIVECOUGHCOUGH*ALLITION GOVERNMENT DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO RUN OUR COUNTRY*

I for one cannot wait for the next general election, it can't come soon enough.​


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## Dan (Aug 18, 2011)




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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 18, 2011)

Wingchunwarrior said:


> Can I ask why that is ridiculous?



I hope you're not being serious? I'm all for having a wealth of opinions on things but I truly cannot see the logic behind these sentences not being ridiculous.


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## Andromalia (Aug 18, 2011)

Varcolac said:


> for stealing £100 worth of Burberry shirts



Lemme guess, that's 1 shirt ?


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## drmosh (Aug 18, 2011)

Andromalia said:


> Lemme guess, that's 1 shirt ?



6 left shoes


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## drmosh (Aug 18, 2011)

Plug said:


> I for one cannot wait for the next general election, it can't come soon enough.



Is politician A better than politician B though? I don't have a fucking clue who I will vote for.
I'm quite glad I am not living in Salford anymore, some places I used to hang out as a kid got smashed the fuck up.
I was however in peckham during the riots staying at a friends, wanting to go to the city for a meal. No fucking chance.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 18, 2011)

drmosh said:


> Is politician A better than politician B though? I don't have a fucking clue who I will vote for.
> I'm quite glad I am not living in Salford anymore, some places I used to hang out as a kid got smashed the fuck up.
> I was however in peckham during the riots staying at a friends, wanting to go to the city for a meal. No fucking chance.



I don't think you need to look far to see that the Conservatives are one of our worst options.


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## drmosh (Aug 18, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't think you need to look far to see that the Conservatives are one of our worst options.



I was born in salford, you think I'd vote tories? haha


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## Wingchunwarrior (Aug 18, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I hope you're not being serious? I'm all for having a wealth of opinions on things but I truly cannot see the logic behind these sentences not being ridiculous.



Nah ignore it mate,hadn't really looked at the sentences and then was gonna edit my post but forgot.I only saw the sentence of the facebook "lets start a riot" guy and I completely misread it.I thought he was actually physically involved in the riots. and even then I thought "da fuck thats harsh", and I'm quite in favour of harsher sentences.

I think you'd have to be pretty dumb to not find this absurd


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