# Kahler Hybrid vs Pro Series?



## heffergm (Aug 1, 2008)

I've been reading everything I can find on wammiusa and and kahlerusa, and aside from a rather vague note about the Pro series being "hand crafted" and the Hybrid "factory made", I can't figure out what the real difference is. Given the $150 or so price spread, I'm going to assume it's in materials.

Anyone know the details?


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## JesseTheMachine (Aug 1, 2008)

I'd say that the hybrids are made of cheaper metals and maybe aren't machined to the same tolerances as the Pro models... Also, as stated on the Kahler website, a hybrid unit has a convenient allen key on the back that you can use to fix the bridge in place.


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## heffergm (Aug 1, 2008)

JesseTheMachine said:


> I'd say that the hybrids are made of cheaper metals and maybe aren't machined to the same tolerances as the Pro models... Also, as stated on the Kahler website, a hybrid unit has a convenient allen key on the back that you can use to fix the bridge in place.



I noticed the fixed bridge bit... why that isn't an option on both is a little bewildering.


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## Josh Lawson (Aug 1, 2008)

I've read that all the new Kahlers are casted and not machined. I'm pretty sure they will be total crap just like the old POS Kahlers that sucked really, really bad.


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## heffergm (Aug 2, 2008)

Josh Lawson said:


> I've read that all the new Kahlers are casted and not machined. I'm pretty sure they will be total crap just like the old POS Kahlers that sucked really, really bad.



And your source is.... ?


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## Josh Lawson (Aug 2, 2008)

heffergm said:


> And your source is.... ?


That is just what I read in another forum. It is suspect info but I was just throwing that out there. Good job on the fact checking though.


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## Edroz (Aug 2, 2008)

Josh Lawson said:


> I've read that all the new Kahlers are casted and not machined. I'm pretty sure they will be total crap just like the old POS Kahlers that sucked really, really bad.




i guess that's why the "old POS Kahler" on my Charvel is still going strong... i've been around Kahlers for years, and always found them to be top notch trems. hell, i'm having a KxK Sii-7 built with one right now.


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## heffergm (Aug 2, 2008)

Edroz said:


> i guess that's why the "old POS Kahler" on my Charvel is still going strong :rollseyes:... i've been around Kahlers for years, and always found them to be top notch trems. hell, i'm having a KxK Sii-7 built with one right now.



Edroz, are they using a Hybrid (7327) or a Pro (2327)?


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## Edroz (Aug 2, 2008)

heffergm said:


> Edroz, are they using a Hybrid (7327) or a Pro (2327)?



IIRC Rob (KxK) will only use the pro series Kahlers, as he doesn't feel the quality is up to par with the Hybrids... i ordered the 2317 for my build.


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## heffergm (Aug 2, 2008)

Edroz said:


> IIRC Rob (KxK) will only use the pro series Kahlers, as he doesn't feel the quality is up to par with the Hybrids... i ordered the 2317 for my build.



Ok, that seals the deal on whether I'll go Pro or Hybrid. Thx for the info.


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## Josh Lawson (Aug 2, 2008)

Edroz said:


> i guess that's why the "old POS Kahler" on my Charvel is still going strong... i've been around Kahlers for years, and always found them to be top notch trems. hell, i'm having a KxK Sii-7 built with one right now.


I owned two guitars that didn't stay in tune worth a shit with Kahlers on them. Also, I didn't like the feel or anything about the way they worked. If you had a good experience with them, that is awesome. In a sense, I am envious. Kahler seems to be a real night and day type of products where some folks love them for what they are and others can't stand them. I would love to play a Kahler equipped guitar that worked right and didn't go sharp on palm mutes, but I haven't. The sloppy screw in bars where horrible as well.


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## heffergm (Aug 2, 2008)

Josh Lawson said:


> I would love to play a Kahler equipped guitar that worked right and didn't go sharp on palm mutes, but I haven't. The sloppy screw in bars where horrible as well.



That seems incredibly weird to me (the sharp on palm mutes bit) given that, unless you had your picking hand WAY back on the cam, this isn't really possible with a Kahler, at least not like it is with a Floyd, since the forward portion of the bridge doesn't move. Who knows... there are a million reasons you can get a bad impression of something (bad setup, broken parts, etc).


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## darren (Aug 2, 2008)

It seems to me that any trem, Floyd, Kahler, Wilkinson, etc. can be glorious or complete shit, depending on the skill of the tech who set the guitar up.


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## daemon barbeque (Aug 4, 2008)

I talked to Josh about that subject the other day ,and he stated that the Hybrids have parts made in other countries ,and the material quality is not as high as Pro line.
He was also asking me what kind of sound I need ,so if the Hybrid would be enough for me.
The 2327 and 2328 are both made out of brass.
The hybrids have different marterials.

Also the Pros are made in U.S.A ...totally.


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## noodles (Aug 4, 2008)

Josh Lawson said:


> I've read that all the new Kahlers are casted and not machined. I'm pretty sure they will be total crap just like the old POS Kahlers that sucked really, really bad.



Your flippant attitude aside, yes, the pros have machined base plates, while the hybrids are cast. I also believe the pros are made in America, while the hybrids are imported.

Still, the weak link of Kahler is, and always has been, the cast saddles. It is the Achilles Heel of the design, and both models have them.


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## joshvittek (Aug 4, 2008)

Here is some information that might help clear the air:

Neither bridge is cast. Both are machined. 

The difference between the Professional line and the Hybrid line is material and production methods. The Pro line uses 360 H/H brass, 1018CRS Steel, 303 stainless steel and 5060T6-7075 aircraft aluminum and is machined and hand milled in small runs of 20 30 pieces at a time. The higher grade metals affect the tone much like the woods of your guitar do. 

-The Hybrid uses 360 H/H brass only.

-both bridges use the exact same set of bearings


-The Hybrid line does not offer the ability to mix your metals combinations for different tones like the Professional line. It is only available with a brass cam and brass saddle.

-The Hybrid has only a three hole cam as opposed to the professional's five holes. With three, you can only use the tremolo arm and not the additional palm lever as you can on the pro.

-Also, with only having three holes, it is not available in a left handed model. Only the Professional is available for left handers.

-The Hybrid uses some components that are made overseas that are sent to us raw, we plate the pieces and do final complete assembly here in California in combination with USA made pieces. Whereas, the professional is made exclusively in the USA.


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## Rob_KxK (Aug 4, 2008)

To clarify, I only use the Pro model Kahlers on KxK because, as Josh stated the 
hybrids have non-usa made components. If I have the choice between USA and
half or non USA I'll take the USA made. I prefer to support USA workers!

The Hybrids are great bridges and there is nothing wrong with them. I also think
it was a great idea for Kahler to introduce the hybrids as long as the Pros stay 
100% here in the US. 

Either one is a great bridge.
Rob


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## Josh Lawson (Aug 5, 2008)

joshvittek said:


> Here is some information that might help clear the air:
> 
> Neither bridge is cast. Both are machined.
> 
> ...


Can a full step bend be done with either of these new trems and have the guitar come back to tune.....I doubt it. I've owned 2 Kahlered guitars and neither one stayed in tune when doing any sort of bending. I love Slayer and that is why I wanted one of these trems, but they never worked for me at all. I wanted to love Kahler, I really did. I don't though....at all. Twice bitten, never, ever again.


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## Wammi (Sep 26, 2009)

Unfortunately misinformation strikes again... I am sorry to say. 

THE FACTS ARE: 

The materials are EXACTLY the same between the models (just that you have more choices with a custom shop model...hence the word CUSTOM shop) The specs are EXACTLY the same on all 3 versions including the Chinese made X Trem. You cannot see or feel the difference. Anybody who claims that the Pros are better than hybrids or the materials are inferior is misinformed or simply bias from reading forums with bad info. The forums are a breeding ground for misinformation. The other day i saw a guy answer another that our trems need no routing at all. Again i had to jump in and tell the truth. (to many forums to police) There is no difference in the metals. The ONLY difference is WHERE and HOW it was made. Its like this... L.A. Machinist ($75 per hr.) or L.A. factory worker ($15 per hour) or in China for the low labor rate. Its as simple as that. I have many customers that love the hybrid series and also have had many say the quality was as expected...very high. I play hybrids on 3/4 of my guitar collection and that should say something right there about quality.
By the way. the Pros lock too, they just haven't updated the site. 

Next time you all have a question...ask me please. I work for Kahler and run the parts department and customer service dept. I answer emails hourly and work weekends and holidays just for your questions... Its my job.

Wammi J. or
John Cecchini


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## Hollowway (Sep 26, 2009)

Yeah, I was going to say that on the Pro model I have, there IS an adjustment screw to lock the trem in position.


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## Baco (Oct 6, 2009)

Wammi said:


> By the way. the Pros lock too, they just haven't updated the site.


That was the info I was looking for, I found it hard to believe that the Pro series wasn't able to lock too, which in my case was a big + for the Hybrid.

So if I read this correctly, it pretty much depends on how much you want to spend on it, no?

I'm looking into having a custom Rico made and I was very interested in these Kahler trems since I have guitars with OFR's, Shaller and ToM bridges and I'm curious how the Kahlers compare to the OFR's, maybe I'll try one out...


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2009)

Well, if I may weigh in on this...
I would go with the OFR. Actually, no matter what you get, I'd go with the top of the line, since the guitar is top of the line (i.e. not Hybrid Kahler or LFR).
But anyway, the one thing I do NOT like about the Kahler is the way the cam works with the rollers, etc. the strings will not all drop evenly, so the lower strings tend to hit the pickups when you dive bomb, but the higher strings will just go down a few steps. So far everyone I've talked to has the same issue. On a Floyd, they all go slack. Secondly, there is some debate over whether you can bend a string on a Kahler and have it return to pitch. The most likely culprit is the way angle the string goes over the roller. On my guitar I have a very shallow roller string angle, but that required me to dremel off the head of the intonation adjustment screw to get the string off of it. 

The downsides of the Floyd is the initial setup can be tough if you don't know what you're doing. And the tension is much higher than on a Kahler (although I personally prefer it that way. You can flutter WAY better on a Floyd). And with a Floyd they come with a 15" radius, standard. You can't adjust the saddles with a screwdriver, but instead you have to get these little shims that fit between the saddles and the baseplate. Kind of a pain in the butt (you're going to have to do it if you go with a 20" BRJ radius). It's a one time thing, though, and Bernie may well have that all set up for you (I would think he would). Anyway, my .


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## Baco (Oct 7, 2009)

Hmm, Kahlers are quite controversial, it seems...

Though choice


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## capo_fez (Feb 20, 2010)

Wammi, thanks for clearing that one up for us. I am currently awaiting the Kahler 8-string Hybrid I ordered yesterday. I have played on many Kahlers and can say that out of the Hybrids and the Pros that I have played on, I can't tell a difference, except the older Pros I have played didn't have the lock option. I have never had a problem with any Kahler I have played on. I still remember the first on I set up for a guy. He brought it back to me (after saying he wanted the action as low as possible) saying that it was too low for him. It didn't buzz, the saddles rolled perfectly, and the cam action was smooth as all get out, but it was too sensitive for his left hand, as he had played with nearly 5/32" action at the 12th fret. This was a Kahler from the mid 80's that was on his Charvel. Ever since I have played on several other peoples Kahler trems on many different guitars, and everytime all I can say is WOW! There hasn't been a trem that I have played on yet to compare to the feel and response of a Kahler. I used to love Floyds and Edges before, but Kahler does it for me. I know some people can't get used to the smooth action of a Kahler, but I have been sold. Also, I have a Kahler installed on my old Kramer Baretta, and for a trem made in 1988, it still plays amazing. I just need more money to buy Kahlers for all of my future guitars. 

The only issues with Kahlers, they need a string lock system for 7 and 8 string guitars! I was hoping to find one, but no such luck... 

Hey, Wammi J, what's the possibility of Kahler making a string lock system for 7 and 8? Either custom or factory run?


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## speedyone (Feb 20, 2010)

Hey heffergm, is this trem for your Carvin?

I had a DC727, but sold it, as I couldn't get any trem I liked with it.

Best playing guitar EVER that Dc727! I didn't care for the tone though. So I'm having a custom 7 string strat built, with a Hipshot 7 trem. And the kicker is, I e-mailed the builder a PDF of exact DC727 neck specs, so it will (hopefully) have the playability of the Carvin.



Good luck on your project!


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## Wakizashi (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi,

I stupidly ask is the 23xx a PRO version or not? I have seen the LTD JH600 and I was wondered If that is quality termolo unit. Brands often use signature models for expensive selling with low quality materials. 

I had all guitars with FR systems, which was great for tuning, but I disliked quite big tension (9s with 3 springs). So I wanted to try Kahler (for extremely light response) equipped guitar, but I do not want to make a mistake. I also do not do very big bends. Standardly halftone, maximally full one sometimes.


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## Ironbird (Aug 23, 2011)

Wammi World, Kahler Authorized Dealer - Knowledge Base


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