# Thordendal's Breath Controller



## tr0n (Mar 22, 2010)

Hi all,

For a university project I'm writing about sound manipulation and one of the songs I'm looking at is Thordendal's Sol Niger Within - the first 3 minutes of it anyway because it's essentially ~40 minutes indexed to 20-something tracks. The first 3 minutes exhibit the heavily processed vocals, dubbed delay performance, and I'm pretty sure his breath controller is used in one of the two solos in those first 2 tracks.

I've done a fair bit of research already but I think there might be the odd few people on this forum who are more in the know, so I figured it's worth a shot to ask more about what's going on. I've read through this interview, and read through this website and downloaded the manual, but I'm still not clear about Thordendal's signal path. Is his breath controller connected to a rack-unit? And is this connected to the effects loop of his amp? Thordendal's wikipedia entry notes a Clavia Nord Modular G2, although I recalling seeing this in a rack at one time. Unfortunately I can't make out those parameters. I guess the rack unit in that picture was used for DEI, None and Sol Niger Within, and perhaps he's using the Nord currently? I'm also wondering what parameters the tube, and X&Y controls are assigned to also, although that might be a longshot.

So in short,

Where was the breath controller connected and how did it fit in his signal path?
What parameters were the controller assigned to in the rack unit?
Where can I find more information about this 'ADA Stereo Delay' unit?

Thanks in advance,

Mark


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## AlexWadeWC (Mar 22, 2010)

I can't offer much help but I can say when we played with them I didn't see that rack unit anywhere in his set up.

The only things I saw were the 3 Axe FX's, a Furman power conditioner, an In-Ear reciever, and a Fireface Interface of some sort that allowed him to play the samples and Thomas's kick trigger sample from Drum Kit from Hell from his computer through the PA.


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## tr0n (Mar 22, 2010)

AlexWadeWC said:


> I can't offer much help but I can say when we played with them I didn't see that rack unit anywhere in his set up.
> 
> The only things I saw were the 3 Axe FX's, a Furman power conditioner, an In-Ear reciever, and a Fireface Interface of some sort that allowed him to play the samples and Thomas's kick trigger sample from Drum Kit from Hell from his computer through the PA.



Hmm, perhaps he didn't need it due to their setlist. Did they play Future Breed Machine?


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## S-O (Mar 22, 2010)

This guy may be able to help you out, he is still learning it but he seems to have it down rather solid.







But he seems to get all his info from the same site you got the schematic thing from.

CynicEidolon played around with one, he may also be able to help out more.




I think as it is moved up and down, one effect (Or two, one for up and one for down) is swept through, like say, phaser. And left and right is another (or two, one for left and one for right), this could control another effect. Breath controls volume, of course, but I bet it could be set to control something else.

Then, as it is swept around 360 degrees, it blends each effect differently, or so it seems.

So, you could set it up to anything, as long as it can be controlled with multiple midi codes being sent.

It may be that he is now running it through the Axe-FX, as it could be set up that way, I would think, as long as all the different effects he wants are in it, which I am sure it is.

So, really, I don'yknow if I was any direct help haha.


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## S-O (Mar 22, 2010)

Also, didn't the original breath controller control a custom rack unit by the dude that made the 33 controller?

Pics: http://www8.tfe.umu.se/personliga/jh/JHBC1.htm


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## tbird11 (Mar 22, 2010)

tr0n said:


> Hmm, perhaps he didn't need it due to their setlist. Did they play Future Breed Machine?



I've seen them 4 times including twice on that tour with whitechapel/ soundwave, that alex is referring to and they have always closed with FBM. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's their stock closer. I tend to agree with the above post that he would run it through his axe-fx as that thing has enough effects and processing power to land a space shuttle on the moon it seems, plus it would make routing his live rig a relatively simple process, by Fred's standards anyway........


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## tr0n (Mar 23, 2010)

S-O said:


> Also, didn't the original breath controller control a custom rack unit by the dude that made the 33 controller?
> 
> Pics: http://www8.tfe.umu.se/personliga/jh/JHBC1.htm



Yeah, but it's a shame I can't make out the parameters on that thing. I guess Thordendal probably switched to the Nord Modular G2 after using this custom built rack unit, but at which point I'm not sure. Because he used this breath controller on DEI, released in 95, and again on Sol Niger Within, released in 97.

As for today, well the Axe-FX does have a MIDI interface, but he would still need a device to translate the breath controller messages into the right MIDI data. Perhaps this has been built into the breath controller itself now.


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## S-O (Mar 23, 2010)

Ah, didn't think about that, I just assumed it would word just like a volume/wah pedal, which can be plugged in and work like a volume/wah in the Axe-FX.


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## drezdin (Mar 23, 2010)

I have one of the breath controllers. You can change the midi settings inside the unit. Then you can just set the corresponding effects parameter settings in your fx unit. Pretty easy to setup


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## S-O (Mar 23, 2010)

drezdin said:


> I have one of the breath controllers. You can change the midi settings inside the unit. Then you can just set the corresponding effects parameter settings in your fx unit. Pretty easy to setup



Did you make it, or did someone make it for you? I am really interested in one!


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## SnowfaLL (Mar 23, 2010)

aww I was hoping you meant an EWI when I read this thread.. I really want an EWI soon =[ So cool.


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## Variant (Mar 25, 2010)

tr0n said:


> Hi all,
> 
> For a university project I'm writing about sound manipulation and one of the songs I'm looking at is Thordendal's Sol Niger Within - the first 3 minutes of it anyway because it's essentially ~40 minutes indexed to 20-something tracks. The first 3 minutes exhibit the heavily processed vocals, dubbed delay performance, and I'm pretty sure his breath controller is used in one of the two solos in those first 2 tracks.
> 
> ...



The 33 breath controller is just a MIDI interface, changing your breath pressure to MIDI velocity, kind of like a really expressive volume pedal. That said, it doesn't make any difference what you control so long as it responds to MIDI CC inputs. Assign it to a channel and go! 

MIDI solutions make a unit that you can purchase outright: MIDI Solutions Breath Controller 

The 33, I believe, is a custom job.

The Clavia Nord G2 Modular is one of Nord's series of modular synthesizers. They differ from the vast majority of synths out that is that they don't necessarily rely on a tone generated waveform to manipulate with the various forms of onboard synthesis, and instead, feature true analog inputs which allow the user to plug just about anything (in Fredrick's case, a guitar) into them to apply the envelope, and-so-on manipulations to them. They are drastically underutilized in this capacity, IMHO. I have some older Korg units that do the same, and absolutely love how they sound on my guitar signal. Unfortunately, they have no MIDI implementation, just a traditional CC input.


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## drezdin (Mar 25, 2010)

S-O said:


> Did you make it, or did someone make it for you? I am really interested in one!



Thomas's brother made a batch of them a few years ago. They are the same as Fredrik's or a least the one he was using at the time

sorry, just checked the manual on the OP. 
That is the one. Called the "33"


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## enForce1 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, my videos on sevenstring.org  Have to say I'm a bit honored for this.

Yes, I got most of my schems from Johan Haake's website excluding the wah circuit (googled it from somewhere).


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## timothydog76 (May 6, 2010)

I'm the guy in the bottom video of S-O's post. Man that was a long time ago!

I got my 33 from Johan Haake (Tomas' brother). He made a limited run of them 4-5 years ago and sold pretty much exclusively to people over on the Meshuggah Forum. I would say there was a total of less than 20 if I remember.

At the time, I used a Nord Micro Modular box to apply the necessary effects to the guitar. The 33 connects to it via MIDI and you run your guitar through the Nord and then into the amp. Fredrik's original breath controller was just one parameter similar to a volume pedal but the 33 controls 2 extra controllers on a joystick (x & y axes) which can provide for some interesting sounds.

I recently bought an Axe-FX Ultra and I'm planning on some experimenting this weekend to see how well the 33 controller works. There are many controllable parameters. If I had to bet, I would say Fredrik is using the 33 controller this way now but I'm not positive. I have been corresponding with him via email and have put the question to him. Hopefully I hear something back soon.

Cheers,
Tim/Tandjent


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## ralphy1976 (May 6, 2010)

that is really cool!!!


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## S-O (May 6, 2010)

Bad ass. Can't wait!


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## CynicEidolon (May 10, 2010)

Yeap. For the record. I am NOT the guy in the bottom vid. Just got that from (apparently that one timothy dude) a while back and just used the vid to test Youtube uploading. Haha.


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