# Preamp Pedal for Modern Metal: KSR Ceres or Mooer Preamp Live?



## MrWulf (Feb 25, 2019)

Hi. I'm currently downsizing my gear from having a tube amp to something that is more compact and mobile, like a preamp -> solid state power amp or a small tube power amp ala Mooer Tube Engine. My question is, what should I pick for my preamp pedal? Mooer Preamp Live seems to be more versatile while KSR Ceres from all the demo absolutely crushed. What should I choose? Does anyone also have any other suggestion? Thanks!


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 25, 2019)

I haven't heard the ceres sound bad. I'm definitely going to buy one in the future. The mooer doesn't sound that bad in the videos I've seen on it but I feel like it has a slightly more digital sound to it. The tone modeling ability on it is pretty cool though.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 25, 2019)

The only word about the Ceres is from NAMM impressions and youtubers. I'd wait another month or so before you decide because then there'd be more out in the wild. 

But if you want more options; the AMT SS30 pedal kicked ass IMO. Go used for cheap... I just sold mine for $130, and they tend to go between $150 - $200 if you look around.


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## MrWulf (Feb 25, 2019)

the AMT SS30 sounds a bit flat to me. Do you know any other preamp pedal with similar capability? I know there's the Kraken Preamp too iirc


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> the AMT SS30 sounds a bit flat to me. Do you know any other preamp pedal with similar capability? I know there's the Kraken Preamp too iirc



There's also the Revv G3 and G4 and the Diezel VH4. Have you thought about using a full tube preamp? Mesa makes some great tube preamp versions of some of their amps.


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## Bearitone (Feb 25, 2019)

LOTS of options for modern metal preamp pedals.
What do you need/want the most?
-Built in OD/boost?
-Built in solo (volume) boost?
-Multiple channels?
-Clean channel?
-Built in gate?

Based on your choices above, you don't mind if its solidstate, tube, or modeling so yeah. Tons of stuff out their.

My favorites are the Amptweaker TightMetal, Randal RGOD, and AMT R2
For a poweramp, I've yet to try anything better than my Mosvalve 942. (Still want to try an Orange PedalBaby)

EDIT:
List of options I can think of:
-Randall RGOD (not the RG13)
-A bunch of AMT pedals
-Amptweaker Tightmetal (I've heard the tightrock does modern metal very well too)
-A bunch of mooer pedal
-Kraken
-Revv pedals
-KSR
-Orange Bax Bangeetar (probably not the best for "modern" but fun)
-Horizon Apex
-Megalith Delta
-Airis Nemesis (super cheap one on GC used right now)
-Airis Carnage
-S&k VHD (Not considered modern but, I bet it could be if you boosted the crap out of it)

I'm sure theres more I'm forgetting or haven't even heard of yet


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## MrWulf (Feb 25, 2019)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> There's also the Revv G3 and G4 and the Diezel VH4. Have you thought about using a full tube preamp? Mesa makes some great tube preamp versions of some of their amps.



I do, but i prefer preamp pedal set up more because im trying to make my setup as mobile as possible. Might as well go full tube amp if i want a tube preamp.


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## MrWulf (Feb 25, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> LOTS of options for modern metal preamp pedals.
> What do you need/want the most?
> -Built in OD/boost?
> -Built in solo (volume) boost?
> ...



I already have a Seymour Duncan 805 and a Boss Noise Suppressor so built in boost/volume or gate is unnecessary. Definitely want multi channel and a clean channel. I want to look for a saturated, lush but tight modern metal sounds with a little bit of that metallic djent edge. The KSR Ceres really hit close to that from the demos imo. Although Nevermore's Dead Heart in a Dead World tone or a modern 5153 red channel is also quite desirable. For the most part i dont care much about whether or not it is tube, ss or modelling BUT i want my tone to sounds lush and 3d, not flat at all.


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> I do, but i prefer preamp pedal set up more because im trying to make my setup as mobile as possible. Might as well go full tube amp if i want a tube preamp.



Yeah I guess that makes sense. Another option would be the Horizon Apex preamp.


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## Bearitone (Feb 25, 2019)

Skip to 0:15

Here's my video of a boosted AMT R2 into a Mosvalve 942
Lush thick saturated distortion that absolutely djents.
Plus a built in clean channel.

Mosvalve 942 ~ $250
AMT R2 ~ $130 used (Cheaper if you find it on GC used)
Maxon 808x ~ $110 used 


If you're on a budget I think a boosted AMT R2 is still the best bang for your buck preamp pedal on the market. (For modern metal).


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## USMarine75 (Feb 25, 2019)

Depends on tones and any specific must haves such as FX loop, clean channel (if true preamp), etc... but I own a lot of dirt pedals and have tried most (not the Ceres though yet)...

Best I've tried (off the top of my head) for modern metal are:
MI Audio Megalith Delta (widest range, overall winner for now for me)
Custom Audio Art Fortis High Drive (cleanest/most articulate - think bluesbreaker/Timmy but on steroids)
Revv G3 (I personally prefer to the G4 but that's me)
AMT P2 (brutal 5150 tones - the drive mini with the modern switch is killer too)
Tech21 OMG (Reminds me of an Uberschall type of tone, articulate or fat, also has 28dB of boost, super wide range of tones from 5150 to Uber)

And best I've heard:
KSR Ceres

Bonus:
The Wampler Dracarys is somehow overlooked, and honestly I only played mine for a couple hours, but it seemed great. The modern switch made all the difference in the world for more open crushing chords, vs the modern for fast riffing. I might pull it out tonight and give it a play.


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## Bearitone (Feb 26, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> AMT P2 (brutal 5150 tones - the drive mini with the modern switch is killer too)



Did the P-drive into a poweramp with the "modern" voicing sound the same as the P2 into a poweramp?


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## thetourist (Feb 26, 2019)

Bit of a sleeper but definitely worth checking out an ISP Theta preamp, if you can find one used/cheap. Has a decent clean channel, too.


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## USMarine75 (Feb 26, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Did the P-drive into a poweramp with the "modern" voicing sound the same as the P2 into a poweramp?



I actually prefer the P drive mini with modern to the P2. I'll bet you could tweak them the same since the P2 has a ton of tone controls, but out of the box the mini became my go to. I ran it either direct into a Fryette PS2 or into the front of my Kendrick (Fender) Bassman 410. I also ran it into the clean channel of my Diezel Zerrer preamp into the PS2 and it crushed that way too. Was all just a matter of tweaking.

One more bonus! The MIJ L' Effects (Leqtique mini series) 10/10 is a hidden beast with a tiny footprint. It has a LOT of low end and reminds me of a Mesa in a box. Luckily it has a bottom end control so (unlike a Framus Cobra or Splawn KT88) you can dial it back to fit your needs. Killer tone... I wish they were more easily available in the US.


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## USMarine75 (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> I already have a Seymour Duncan 805 and a Boss Noise Suppressor so built in boost/volume or gate is unnecessary. Definitely want multi channel and a clean channel. I want to look for a saturated, lush but tight modern metal sounds with a little bit of that metallic djent edge. The KSR Ceres really hit close to that from the demos imo. Although Nevermore's Dead Heart in a Dead World tone or a modern 5153 red channel is also quite desirable. For the most part i dont care much about whether or not it is tube, ss or modelling BUT i want my tone to sounds lush and 3d, not flat at all.



The KSR Ceres is the hot new girl in town... why not???


Haven't heard a bad review yet
Kyle is AWESOME to deal with... I bought my Ares used and sent him an email about tubes and settings and he took the time to send back a virtual manual of recommendations. I've already mentally decided I'll buy a Juno when I get back stateside.
All of their stuff has been killer so far... anyone that questions an Ares (???) needs to come try my rig... bring your own towel I'm not responsible for cleanup after.


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## Shask (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Hi. I'm currently downsizing my gear from having a tube amp to something that is more compact and mobile, like a preamp -> solid state power amp or a small tube power amp ala Mooer Tube Engine. My question is, what should I pick for my preamp pedal? Mooer Preamp Live seems to be more versatile while KSR Ceres from all the demo absolutely crushed. What should I choose? Does anyone also have any other suggestion? Thanks!


If you only need 1 sound and a clean channel, the other Mooer pedals might be better instead of the larger, more expensive Preamp Live. The 005 is a cool pedal, as is many of the others, such as the 001, 011, etc.... depending on what type of tone you want. The 005 and Radar is a great tiny combination.


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

Anyone tried the Atomic Amplifire Firebox yet? And with that, any suggestion for a good tube power amp? I'm looking at AMT Tube Cake, Mooer Baby Bomb 30, Mooer Tube Engine, and Seymour Duncan Powerstage 



Shask said:


> If you only need 1 sound and a clean channel, the other Mooer pedals might be better instead of the larger, more expensive Preamp Live. The 005 is a cool pedal, as is many of the others, such as the 001, 011, etc.... depending on what type of tone you want. The 005 and Radar is a great tiny combination.



I'm going to have a 112 cab with WGS Veteran 30 and maybe a Mooer Tube Engine for the cab so i dont think the Radar is necessary. I do like the Mooer mini pedal but there's something flat about them, idk. Maybe i just need to listen to more demo.


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## Shask (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Anyone tried the Atomic Amplifire Firebox yet? And with that, any suggestion for a good tube power amp? I'm looking at AMT Tube Cake, Mooer Baby Bomb 30, Mooer Tube Engine, and Seymour Duncan Powerstage
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to have a 112 cab with WGS Veteran 30 and maybe a Mooer Tube Engine for the cab so i dont think the Radar is necessary. I do like the Mooer mini pedal but there's something flat about them, idk. Maybe i just need to listen to more demo.


The Radar also has a poweramp simulator, and a strong EQ, so it can help add a little something an only-preamp pedal lacks. Most of those small poweramps are flat, and do not simulate a larger poweramp like the Radar does.


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## ATRguitar91 (Feb 26, 2019)

If multi channel and a clean channel is a necessity, my vote would be for the ISP Theta. It has two distortions and the preamp section can be used as a clean channel or as a clean boost for the distortion channel, so functionally a three channel. Really versatile tonewise with the active EQ.

If the clean channel isn't a strict requirement, the Tight Metal and Empress Heavy are probably the best sounding preamp pedals I've used. The standard Tight Metal is just one channel, but if you get the pro you have the built in boost which can function as a separate channel. 

The Empress Heavy sounds incredible and has two channels. They're heavy and heavier, but you can dial one in with less gain to serve as a crunch channel.

Honorable mention goes to the Megalith Delta. Only one channel with a separate boost, sounds really good though. More of a fact recto style tone than modern and tight.


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

Shask said:


> The Radar also has a poweramp simulator, and a strong EQ, so it can help add a little something an only-preamp pedal lacks. Most of those small poweramps are flat, and do not simulate a larger poweramp like the Radar does.



Good point. If that's the case though wouldn't a Mooer Live Preamp be better in term of value? Considering that you also get the IR loader/poweramp simulator and all the preamps vs just getting the Radar plus a Brown Sound pedal, with the difference between like 100 dollars at best.


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## ATRguitar91 (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Good point. If that's the case though wouldn't a Mooer Live Preamp be better in term of value? Considering that you also get the IR loader/poweramp simulator and all the preamps vs just getting the Radar plus a Brown Sound pedal, with the difference between like 100 dollars at best.


Depends on what power amp you get. The Powerstage may have enough EQ flexibility onboard that the Radar is unnecessary.

FWIW, I run my preamp pedals straight into a really flat power amp and it sounds good to me. I'm considering getting a Radar, but I don't think it's a requirement for this kind of setup.


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

Ok so here are my choices narrowed it down: 


Option 1: 
KSR Ceres (400 dollars) + Mooer Tube Engine (250 dollars or so) 

Option 2: 
KSR Ceres (400 dollars) + Mooer Radar (100 dollars or so) + AMT Tube Cake (100 dollars or so)

Option 3: 
Mooer Preamp Live (350 dollar or so) + AMT Tube Cake (100 dollars or so) 

Option 4:
AMT P2 or Mooer 005 Brown Sound (100) + Mooer Tube Engine (250 dollars or so)

Option 5: 
AMT P2 or Mooer 005 Brown Sound (100) + Mooer Radar (100 dollars) + AMT Tube Cake (100 dollars or so) 

Alternate choices for KSR Ceres: AMT SS-1B (250 dollar), AMT Bulava SS-30 (200 or so) or Empress Effect Heavy (350)

I already have a Seymour Duncan 805 and a Panama Guitar 112 cab with WGS Veteran 30 in it FYI.

Which of these options should I go?


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Depends on what power amp you get. The Powerstage may have enough EQ flexibility onboard that the Radar is unnecessary.
> 
> FWIW, I run my preamp pedals straight into a really flat power amp and it sounds good to me. I'm considering getting a Radar, but I don't think it's a requirement for this kind of setup.



Which power amp are you using?


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## Bearitone (Feb 26, 2019)

Screw it. Grab the KSR & tube cake. If you want more headroom and volume you can upgrade your poweramp later.


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## mrdm53 (Feb 26, 2019)

I've got similar setup as yours.

I'm using Mooer 005 + Mooer Radar + Mooer Baby Bomb for daily noodling. Add an custom cab 1x12 with V30 in there. 

Sounds pretty close with my EVH 5150 to me.


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## ATRguitar91 (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Which power amp are you using?


Rocktron Velocity


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 26, 2019)

I agree with the ISP Theta suggestions. Only problem is that the clean channel is a bitch to access without some tap dancing. You have to disable the distortion and activate the preamp. 

Instead when I used mine, I ran the preamp as a boost for when I either wanted a lead gain boost or something to tighten up my sound.


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## Soya (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Ok so here are my choices narrowed it down:
> 
> 
> Option 1:
> ...



I'll sell you a ss-30 for very cheap if that helps  also I got my Empress heavy for 200 used if you keep an eye out.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 26, 2019)

Kinda curious why we're including a power amp with the IR loader?


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kinda curious why we're including a power amp with the IR loader?



The Radar? Im mainly interested in power amp modelling to add some oomph to the sound


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## MrWulf (Feb 26, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Screw it. Grab the KSR & tube cake. If you want more headroom and volume you can upgrade your poweramp later.



Just did! Thanks, everyone


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## Shask (Feb 26, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Good point. If that's the case though wouldn't a Mooer Live Preamp be better in term of value? Considering that you also get the IR loader/poweramp simulator and all the preamps vs just getting the Radar plus a Brown Sound pedal, with the difference between like 100 dollars at best.


Depends on what you want, and if you want used. You can grab many of the Mooer Preamp pedals for $50 or so out there. The Preamp Live is new, so probably not available out there used yet. I got 4 preamp pedals, and the radar for about $225 or so.


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## USMarine75 (Feb 27, 2019)

ATRguitar91 said:


> If multi channel and a clean channel is a necessity, my vote would be for the ISP Theta. It has two distortions and the preamp section can be used as a clean channel or as a clean boost for the distortion channel, so functionally a three channel. Really versatile tonewise with the active EQ.
> 
> If the clean channel isn't a strict requirement, the Tight Metal and Empress Heavy are probably the best sounding preamp pedals I've used. The standard Tight Metal is just one channel, but if you get the pro you have the built in boost which can function as a separate channel.
> 
> ...



Have you used a Delta? I only ask because it actually has an extremely wide tonal palette from American to Brit. I mean _really _wide... with the 3 fixed EQ settings. Then you have the contour to tune the mid hump and the standard three tone controls to fine tune. The only complaint I can think of is it doesnt do anything but high gain - it pretty much starts at high gain to crushing modern high gain and nothing else.

The most shocking thing for me was how well the Ceres cleans up and does medium gain stuff (in the videos, I dont own one and havent played one yet!). That right there is HUGE for me.

Also I dont know why clean channel is a big deal? Turn the pedal off and you have your clean channel lol. Buy an OD/boost and run that volume up and gain down to get some clean palette colour, like a Tumnus mini.

I can't believe everyone forgot about the Amptweaker stuff around these parts! Yeah a TM Pro would have been a killer choice... it has everything a good preamp needs - dirt, boost, FX loops, tons of tonal controls. Oh well, that will be his next pedal!


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## Gmork (Feb 27, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Have you used a Delta? I only ask because it actually has an extremely wide tonal palette from American to Brit. I mean _really _wide... with the 3 fixed EQ settings. Then you have the contour to tune the mid hump and the standard three tone controls to fine tune. The only complaint I can think of is it doesnt do anything but high gain - it pretty much starts at high gain to crushing modern high gain and nothing else.
> 
> The most shocking thing for me was how well the Ceres cleans up and does medium gain stuff (in the videos, I dont own one and havent played one yet!). That right there is HUGE for me.
> 
> ...


Was going to say the same, i still think when all is said and done the tightmetal, jr or pro (& ESPECIALLY with resonance/presence mod) is the ultimate in highgain preamp...uhh..ism


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## ATRguitar91 (Feb 27, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Have you used a Delta? I only ask because it actually has an extremely wide tonal palette from American to Brit. I mean _really _wide... with the 3 fixed EQ settings. Then you have the contour to tune the mid hump and the standard three tone controls to fine tune. The only complaint I can think of is it doesnt do anything but high gain - it pretty much starts at high gain to crushing modern high gain and nothing else.


I've had one for a couple months. For whatever reason it hasn't been jiving with me too much.

I can dial in a tone I like on 0 on the EQ switch, but 1 and 2 seem to lack body for me. The contour does provide a lot of versatility though, from heavy mids to fat and scooped with a quick twist.

What do you run the Delta into? I think it may be suited better as a distortion pedal into a clean amp than as a preamp. When I run it into the preamp of the Theta pedal first, it sounds better than when I run it straight into my Rocktron.


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## USMarine75 (Feb 28, 2019)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I've had one for a couple months. For whatever reason it hasn't been jiving with me too much.
> 
> I can dial in a tone I like on 0 on the EQ switch, but 1 and 2 seem to lack body for me. The contour does provide a lot of versatility though, from heavy mids to fat and scooped with a quick twist.
> 
> What do you run the Delta into? I think it may be suited better as a distortion pedal into a clean amp than as a preamp. When I run it into the preamp of the Theta pedal first, it sounds better than when I run it straight into my Rocktron.



Hmm... I've run it both and it's been just killer. Oh well tone is subjective right? I had killer results with it in front of my Tone King Sky King amp which is maybe the best pedal platform amp I've ever heard so that could be a reason. But it also sounded great through my Fryette PS2 as a preamp... and I also ran it into the clean of my Peavey Rockmaster pre into the PS2. BTW the cleans on that Peavey are spanky and amazing... really underrated IMO.


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## bracky (Feb 28, 2019)

The Rockmaster is legendary. I wish I still had mine.


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