# 2nd build, another 8.



## Empryrean (Feb 14, 2012)

Well guys, it's been well on its way with planning and such; however I've decided I wanted to try something different. 

First; questions. I'll update the first post as this build gets moving along.


Multiscale + non fanned pup. This should work fine so long as the fan isn't 2+ inches. But I want your insights, does this look like a bad idea?


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## sk3ks1s (Feb 14, 2012)

I say it should be fine. If the layout will be similar to what you have laid out there, there should be very little affect on tone in my opinion.


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## aWoodenShip (Feb 14, 2012)

Based on my limited knowledge, I would have to agree. It shouldn't be a problem.


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## Empryrean (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys, I had a feeling about it too, however it would mean that my treb strings will be more trebly, and my bass strings will be more bassy, nay?
I don't mind at all though, this is mostly as an experiment.

again, thanks for chiming in


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## Stealthdjentstic (Feb 15, 2012)

Ah sweet dude! Im excited to see how this goes. What saddles are those? I think it might be worth the extra effort of tilting the pickup, EMG's are cheap anyways no?


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## Empryrean (Feb 15, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Ah sweet dude! Im excited to see how this goes. What saddles are those? I think it might be worth the extra effort of tilting the pickup, EMG's are cheap anyways no?



Thank ye Mehtab :3
The saddles are just some cheap roller saddles I got off the bay, I plan on making the bridge out of wood
Emg's aren't hard to come by, however I really want to make this one passive since the last one had an emg in it, don't get me wrong, it sounds just fine, but I wanna keep this different. The thing that worries me with tilting the pickup is that some of the poles wont line up perfectly, most notably the ones furthest from the bridge.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 15, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Ah sweet dude! Im excited to see how this goes. What saddles are those? I think it might be worth the extra effort of tilting the pickup, EMG's are cheap anyways no?


EMGs don't solve the problem of the 2 outer strings that will be out of the pole pieces.

For my point of view, I think it will lack some clarity on the low strings, and have too much high harmonics on the trble strings. For the treble strings, if you play on the neck pickup, it will be no problem. But for the low strings... hee...
Or maybe you can adjust the position regarding the low strings, and get closer to the bridge (very close for high strings) so that you'll keep some clear tone on low strings?
Or you can see how the strings get over the pole with a very little tilted pick up. You have some space to move your pole piece from the string as the string is not always right above the pole when playing.

(I don't know if I'm clear enough  )


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## Empryrean (Feb 15, 2012)

i've got a decently good idea, but I'm not sure if it'll be plain bad or half okay. 
If i keep the spacing relatively close, I can just lower the pickup where it is under the treble strings, just by a tad. and adjust so that the strings aren't as 'close' to the poles. 
It seems to be okay in my head, but I don't know


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## Necromagnon (Feb 16, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> i've got a decently good idea, but I'm not sure if it'll be plain bad or half okay.
> If i keep the spacing relatively close, I can just lower the pickup where it is under the treble strings, just by a tad. and adjust so that the strings aren't as 'close' to the poles.
> It seems to be okay in my head, but I don't know


I really don't know. It will lower the output level of the treble strings, but it doesn't solve the problem of trebly sound.
I think, what you should do is a benchmark. You place 2 outer strings, wire the pickup to jack plug and plug it into a little amp, and then you test some combination: straight pickup, lightly tilted, lower on the treble side, etc.
I think it will be the only way to have concrete answer.


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## silent_k (Feb 16, 2012)

I believe he's going to be doing slanted pickups in the future, but all of Ola Strandberg's guitars with fanned fretboards that I've seen have had straight pickups. He isn't doing really big fans, but a fanned board with straight pickups hasn't seemed to be a problem in his builds at all.


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## Empryrean (Feb 21, 2012)

Well guys; uh, here's a progress mockup. since you've all been so nice to me


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 21, 2012)

Going headless? Very nice!


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## Necris (Feb 21, 2012)

I think it would be interesting to angle the pickup forward in porportion to the fan rather than backwards. Leaving it straight should be fine though.


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## Empryrean (Feb 22, 2012)

Necris said:


> I think it would be interesting to angle the pickup forward in porportion to the fan rather than backwards. Leaving it straight should be fine though.



I had thought of that, I also considered only a neck pickup until I had the money to buy a slanted bridge, or try making one myself.




Tom Drinkwater said:


> Going headless? Very nice!



Yes sir Tom! I am feeling extra adventurous with this one!


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## Necromagnon (Feb 22, 2012)

I don't like headless... :/


I think you'd try to get down a little the bridge, it's way too far from the bottom of the body, in my opinion (I think about 1" backward, seen from here).


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## Stealthdjentstic (Feb 22, 2012)

Looks good man. Bkp said theyre now doing fanned pickups for 7's but are still tooling up to do 8 string pickups. They said the angle will be locked in at 10 degrees though.


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## in-pursuit (Feb 22, 2012)

just try to keep in mind all of the possible factors of your design. you say you're concerned about the pickups being slanted/not slanted in keeping with your multiscale design. have you considered changing the point at which your "perpendicular" fret occurs in order to minimise any negative effect that not slanting the pickup would create? 

what about considering alternative pickups to get around the problem? you've mentioned you're interested in going passive, what then are your options? I know that the lace tone bar pickups are becoming a bit of a staple when it comes to ERGs and multiscale instruments, it might also be worth looking into some second hand Q tuners. or if you have the patience, wait for the new lineup of Q-tuner products


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## Fiction (Feb 22, 2012)

Necris said:


> I think it would be interesting to angle the pickup forward in porportion to the fan rather than backwards. Leaving it straight should be fine though.



That would be even more bass-y on the low strings. I don't think you'll notice too much of a difference if you leave it straight. 

Or if you really want different, maybe try wind your own pick-ups, Could be a cool experience, and you could set the pole pieces where you want them to match up to your fan and string spacing.


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## Empryrean (Feb 22, 2012)

in-pursuit said:


> just try to keep in mind all of the possible factors of your design. you say you're concerned about the pickups being slanted/not slanted in keeping with your multiscale design. have you considered changing the point at which your "perpendicular" fret occurs in order to minimise any negative effect that not slanting the pickup would create?
> 
> what about considering alternative pickups to get around the problem? you've mentioned you're interested in going passive, what then are your options? I know that the lace tone bar pickups are becoming a bit of a staple when it comes to ERGs and multiscale instruments, it might also be worth looking into some second hand Q tuners. or if you have the patience, wait for the new lineup of Q-tuner products



I considered moving the perpendicular fret to a few different places, but since my playing sort of tends to lean towards the center, I feel it would be best to leave it at the 12th fret. There was also the purpose of having the bridge and 0 fret at the same angle, I didn't want the first frets to be too slanted.

For now, I believe I'll be fine tilting the bridge ever so slightly, unless putting it in the neck for now would work..then I'd do that instead. 

As far as Laces and Q-tuners go, I have yet to hear any high gain Lace demos that I feel would produce the sound I want, and if I went q-tuners, I find the bridge is a little too (whats the word..) - honest, for my tastes 
However, if I can get my hands on a medium-z for the neck, I would be most tempted to do so. 

Ideas rattling in my head:
Put the pickup in the neck, leave room for bridge.
OR
Route both, put the bridge in, wait for neck

What would you guys do? 
Cash is slim


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## Necromagnon (Feb 22, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> Cash is slim


It's worldwide... :/

I think it will depend on which style of music you wanna play. Just a neck pickup will be useless for any hi-gain sound.

Anyway, I wouldn't route both. I'd only route the position I'll place the pickup, because when the guitar is finished, it's hard to get back on it. For me, I generally go on another project pushed a little further than taking back to work a finished (or almost in my case...) guitar.
And if you leave your guitar with two routes and only one pickup.... 

About sound, I suggested you to make test. Just place a saddle (or two, depends on what you wanna test) on a bridge blank you've made (not a complexe, just a small steel square -??- ) with a hole on it, a nut to hold the string, a wire to connect pickup to jack output, and then you test which position and sound fit your taste. It's the best way to have what you want, I think.

Anyway, tilt a pickup works fine. I've done it on my first 8 strings, and it works fine:


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## Empryrean (Feb 22, 2012)

^ holy wow why don't you have a thread for that yet!? 


I think I'll stick to puttin just a bridge for now, but I'll route a channel for the neck wiring, so I wont have to be too crazy when I put the 2nd pickup in.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 23, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> ^ holy wow why don't you have a thread for that yet!?


Cause it's full of mistakes! 
I've just take a picture of this that didn't show those.

Good idea to route the wire channel, it's a difficult part when you don't have a top wood, and it's easy to screw up all the finish drilling it...


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## Prydogga (Feb 23, 2012)

Dude! 2nd Build? Where's the thread for the first!?


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## Empryrean (Mar 3, 2012)

Well heres another update, I am so curious about what I should do for the neck shape. I really wanna experiment with something new


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## CruzDrum (Mar 4, 2012)

you could probably take the pickup apart and angle the two coils according to the fan and then reconnect them ,acorrding to the fan


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## Superwoodle (Mar 4, 2012)

CruzDrum said:


> you could probably take the pickup apart and angle the two coils according to the fan and then reconnect them ,acorrding to the fan



Then the string spacing would decrease as the fan angle increases.


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## Empryrean (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm not so worried about the pickups anymore, but if I did take them apart I'd need a new baseplate for it.


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## Empryrean (Mar 5, 2012)

So far..


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## TimSE (Mar 5, 2012)

I love build threads


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## Empryrean (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh my, it seems I haven't updated this thread; tomorrow I shall return and hopefully get going back on this, but for now, let me leave you all a piece of mind




As you can see, my highly complex routing directions have lead me to a not-so-great place





now then, on a more positive note:


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## benny (Mar 28, 2012)

Build seems cool, will keep up with this. Definitely interested in the neck/fretting area.

Just an input on the pickup, though I see you have a slanted bridge pup now. The usual strat bridge pup is pretty slanted compared to the bridge itself....


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## Empryrean (Apr 4, 2012)

Thus far I feel today has accomplished very much!








































A BILLION WEIGHTS 

Should look like this some day 





ctrl+c/v'd


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## scherzo1928 (Apr 4, 2012)

Like that shape a lot.


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## Bigsby (Apr 5, 2012)

this guitar is going to look amazing when its finished


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## Hollowway (Apr 5, 2012)

Can we get a close up of the tuning mechanism?
And are you going to use a straight pup in the neck? Because if you used the angled traditional bobbins for the bridge you'll have to decrease string spacing, which will make the neck pickup not line up under the strings correctly. You could angle that one parallel to the bridge, though. I've got a build going now where I'm having the neck pup angled beyond what the fan would dictate (so it will match the angle of the bridge pup exactly) in order to make the bass strings sound a little crisper.


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## Dan_Vacant (Apr 5, 2012)

I reminds me of Alan h\Holdsworths new sig I like it


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## Levi79 (Apr 5, 2012)

This will be cool dude. Stoked to see it come together.


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## Empryrean (Apr 5, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Can we get a close up of the tuning mechanism?
> And are you going to use a straight pup in the neck? Because if you used the angled traditional bobbins for the bridge you'll have to decrease string spacing, which will make the neck pickup not line up under the strings correctly. You could angle that one parallel to the bridge, though. I've got a build going now where I'm having the neck pup angled beyond what the fan would dictate (so it will match the angle of the bridge pup exactly) in order to make the bass strings sound a little crisper.



I still haven't assembled it yet, but it will be rather simple, and hopefully functional 
The neck pickup will indeed be straight, I actually have a set that have been made to accommodate the specific scales of the guitar. That sounds like a neat idea you have there Holloway, i'm always a fan of the guitars you receive 




Dan_Vacant said:


> I reminds me of Alan h\Holdsworths new sig I like it






scherzo1928 said:


> Like that shape a lot.



That's exactly what it's supposed to be! But you know, something my broke self can try to imitate. I still hope to have one someday!





Levi79 said:


> This will be cool dude. Stoked to see it come together.





AntoneBigsby said:


> this guitar is going to look amazing when its finished



Thank you sirs


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## Empryrean (Apr 20, 2012)

Tis all I did that day

now I go home and sketch




taper roughly cut 
















my thumb hurts..

here's a foreshadow of a future build


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## BlackMastodon (Apr 21, 2012)

Not sure if you mentioned this but what are you gonna do about the hole on the lower horn?


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## Empryrean (Apr 21, 2012)

BlackMastodon said:


> Not sure if you mentioned this but what are you gonna do about the hole on the lower horn?


At first I thought about plugging it, but I've decided to leave it, as a memento of my mistake.


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## ElRay (Apr 21, 2012)

Nice start (even with the "unconventionally located, square F-hole").

I wouldn't sweat the straight bridge pick-up, unless you hate the sound of a Tele.

Are you looking at doing the tuners like you were discussing on MG.o?

Also, I added the member built tag and don't forget to post in the Guitars built by members of SS.org [Pic-heavy] thread when she's done.

Ray


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## Empryrean (Apr 21, 2012)

ElRay said:


> Nice start (even with the "unconventionally located, square F-hole").
> 
> I wouldn't sweat the straight bridge pick-up, unless you hate the sound of a Tele.
> 
> ...



I'm going to attempt the bridge idea discussed there, I think I covered it here as well..didn't I? 

Thank you for your support Ray!


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## Empryrean (Apr 30, 2012)

Well bad news on the pickups guys, they have been destroyed by rampaging vehicles 

I will update this as soon as I get a better move on, it's since been tapered and fretted.


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## asher (Apr 30, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> Well bad news on the pickups guys, they have been destroyed by rampaging vehicles
> 
> I will update this as soon as I get a better move on, it's since been tapered and fretted.



... schwa?

Is that like how, when I ordered some pedals and a D-Sonic 7 from GC, the box fell out of the UPS truck as the driver was getting more packages and it got run over by a car?


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## Fiction (Apr 30, 2012)

I have never heard of any freak postal accidents in Australia, what the fuck are all the 'murican delivery guys doing??!?!?

Build is looking awesome so far, man!


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## theo (Apr 30, 2012)

There was a guy in perth who posts here that just had his dual rec killed :/


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## Fiction (Apr 30, 2012)

Spoke to soon


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## celticelk (Apr 30, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> At first I thought about plugging it, but I've decided to leave it, as a memento of my mistake.



It's an homage to the Ken Parker archtop design (Ken Parker Archtops Home). Yeah, that's it.


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## Empryrean (Apr 30, 2012)

asher said:


> ... schwa?
> 
> Is that like how, when I ordered some pedals and a D-Sonic 7 from GC, the box fell out of the UPS truck as the driver was getting more packages and it got run over by a car?



That is quite literally what happened in this case, however the builder has opted to build be another pair, though it will be housed in epoxy to ensure maximum strength


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## Murdstone (Apr 30, 2012)

The missing chunk could act like a little sound hole. Could be interesting acoustically.


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## Necromagnon (May 2, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> That is quite literally what happened in this case, however the builder has opted to build be another pair, though it will be housed in epoxy to ensure maximum strength


He's fucked nice! Will he be reinboursed for the damage and the cost of rebuilding you new pickups? I just can't imagine how they go like this... I've work many times in logistics, and the only problem I saw where windscreens to much straightened and that broke. Other way, never seen stuff like that.

About the sound hole, I really don't think it will work, because the hole is to small, placed in a very bad placed acoustically, and opened on a very small cavity... Maybe you can earn about 1dB unplugged...

About the build, it's getting great!


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## Empryrean (May 14, 2012)

Necromagnon said:


> He's fucked nice! Will he be reinboursed for the damage and the cost of rebuilding you new pickups? I just can't imagine how they go like this... I've work many times in logistics, and the only problem I saw where windscreens to much straightened and that broke. Other way, never seen stuff like that.
> 
> About the sound hole, I really don't think it will work, because the hole is to small, placed in a very bad placed acoustically, and opened on a very small cavity... Maybe you can earn about 1dB unplugged...
> 
> About the build, it's getting great!



^ I'm going to be discussing the costs of the extra materials with him, and tipping him once I get to try them out 

The 'sound hole' will serve a purpose, I made dang sure I had some kind of idea for it, though you ALL would probably think it was dumb 

Come tuesday, I'll be trying to swing by and finish my fret-slots, then I'll be fretting and routing the neck pocket.

Thank you for following my thread sir


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## Necromagnon (May 15, 2012)

Empryrean said:


> The 'sound hole' will serve a purpose, I made dang sure I had some kind of idea for it, though you ALL would probably think it was dumb


Yes. I'm sure you can render it waterproof, add a cap on it and fill it with beer to drink while playing!


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## vansinn (May 15, 2012)

Necromagnon said:


> I really don't know. It will lower the output level of the treble strings, but it doesn't solve the problem of trebly sound.




Two suggestions:
Many passive pickups have the coils mounted with screws from the underside of a metal base.
You could likely easily remove the coils, file the mounting screw holes oval, and refit the two coils a Bit offset in opposite directions.
This will allow proper pole alignment for the limited fanning you're using.


Or, shim each coil at opposite ends, so the coild closest to the bridge at the bass side is lifted, and the coil farthest from the bridge at the treble side is lifted.
This will result in a less phat low end and a more glassy high end, while leaving the mids section with a full humbucking tone - depending on how you might like this sound.

It can also partialy resolve the issue that sometimes a flat pickups, when used with a radius'd board, results in too little gain on the mids section.

I've tried this scheme on a standard 6-stringer (old MightyMite pup); worked just fine - because I preferred the resulting tonal spectrum


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## Empryrean (May 16, 2012)

A series of pictures. 
I started this thing..





decided to work on this thing too..




heat gun fun 




a package













also this happened.


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## Empryrean (Sep 13, 2012)

Aesthetics + possible loss of functionality or Full functionality and wonky mis-sizes?


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## GXPO (Sep 13, 2012)

Sorry if I've missed this, I think I've read that whole thread  But what functionality are you expecting to lose? I assume those active looking pups are passives? I like the mis-match either way. 

The fret work looks incredible by the way.


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## Empryrean (Sep 13, 2012)

GXPO said:


> Sorry if I've missed this, I think I've read that whole thread  But what functionality are you expecting to lose? I assume those active looking pups are passives? I like the mis-match either way.
> 
> *The fret work looks incredible by the way.*



huho thank you 


The function is that the active housed pups are both different sizes, but will definitely cover the range of the strings, and the mixed set would 'possibly' not cover all of them, but in that case I would just route for the bigger ones.

Just wanted to to know if anyone else was a little bothered by the bridge being bigger than the neck


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Sep 13, 2012)

BlackMastodon said:


> Not sure if you mentioned this but what are you gonna do about the hole on the lower horn?



You should put the output jack in there...


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## BlackMastodon (Sep 13, 2012)

OfArtAndArsenal said:


> You should put the output jack in there...


Well that would be original and creative, but would be hell for playing on the upper frets.


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## Empryrean (Sep 14, 2012)

erm, I don't really have a plan for that. I think I'll leave it, I have a witty idea for whicht I can put it to use


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