# 7-string Warmoth with Kahler, build progress...



## sevenstringj (Sep 15, 2010)

Here's the neck. Maple with Pau Ferro 'board. I applied a few coats of Tru-Oil Gunstock finish, then used their polish to get it smoother with a semi-gloss finish. Next step will be wax for extra protection and smoothness. (Kinda like how Ernie Ball finishes their necks, from what I've read.)







Here's my ghetto 7-string Kahler rout taking shape... 






Going deeper...






A couple overzealous whacks with the hammer, but overall not too shabby for an utter n00b, if I do say so myself! 

Anyone got any tips for smoothing out the cavity once I'm done hacking it to the correct depth?


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## Customisbetter (Sep 15, 2010)

That route is looking very clean my friend. Keep up the good work!


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## Hollowway (Sep 16, 2010)

Wow, I'm gonna be watching this thread! I have a couple of Warmoth builds myself. Nice work with the chisel, too! I see why you didn't choose a Floyd.

_Kahler...the #1 choice of router-less luthiers_.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 16, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Anyone got any tips for smoothing out the cavity once I'm done hacking it to the correct depth?



Use some flat files, then some sandpaper wrapped around said files, for the large surface area of the sides, and then a nice triangular file to get the edges squared off. If you take your time it'll look just like a precision router job on the edges. As far as the bottom, I wouldn't worry about small inconsistencies, as it'll be covered by finish, as well as the bridge itself. Then again, so will the sides of the "route".


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## Jontain (Sep 16, 2010)

Wow thats really well done considering you using a hammer and chisle!

Keep up the great work man, as said using a combination of files and sandpaper should give you a pretty decent finish, just take your time, remember its easy to take away wood, impossible to put it back. 

Having said that you have done really well so far man!


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## sevenstringj (Sep 17, 2010)

I think I got about another 1/8" to go. Should I keep going with the chisel, or use something like this dremel bit? Using the chisel is getting more precarious because of the depth and angle of approach.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

I'd get a router bit and base for your Dremel. That grinding stone isn't exactly ideal for working on routes, let alone ones shaped and sized like the one you're working on.


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## sevenstringj (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'd get a router bit and base for your Dremel. That grinding stone isn't exactly ideal for working on routes, let alone ones shaped and sized like the one you're working on.



Something like this? Amazon.com: Dremel 654 1/4" Straight Routing Bit: Home Improvement

And this? Amazon.com: Porter-Cable 8901 Fixed Base for 890 Series Router: Home Improvement

I think I'll chisel to the full depth, and then use sandpaper on the end of some flat square thing.  Or maybe a sanding block cut in half.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Something like this? Amazon.com: Dremel 654 1/4" Straight Routing Bit: Home Improvement
> 
> And this? Amazon.com: Porter-Cable 8901 Fixed Base for 890 Series Router: Home Improvement
> 
> I think I'll chisel to the full depth, and then use sandpaper on the end of some flat square thing.  Or maybe a sanding block cut in half.



Not sure if that's the right router bit for the Dremel, you may want something thinner. It may take more time, but you get some more precision, which is always a good thing. 

As for the base, I meant one designed to fit the Dremel. Like this: Amazon.com: Dremel 335-01 Plunge Router Attachment: Home Improvement


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## aslsmm (Sep 17, 2010)

ive used alot of dremmels on my personel project guitars. some turned out just fine and others got away from me. just remember that dremmels are rather squirrely and very unforgiving. i actually used a drill press the last time i did a route (w/o a router) and it turned out better than any dremmle. 1st i locke the drill press to where i would only go a certain depth each time i pressed it. 2nd i did about 55-60 holes with a 1/3" bit then i gradually moved up to bigger bits till the holes expanded into each other. that was a fr route. i made sure to mount the body very secure first. to sand it i used a block of wood wrapped in sand paper and sanded for about 2 and a half days. it turned out nicley. im going to do it the with my next home build. if you have any questions feel free to pm me and ill go into further detail. i guess this is depending on wether or not you have access to a drill press. a hand drill would be more chaotic than a dremmle would.


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## sevenstringj (Sep 17, 2010)

I don't have a dremel, I was gonna use my regular drill with that grinding bit. But it sounds like I should stick with the chisel, files, and sandpaper.

Another idea, I just realized I could go a little deeper than necessary (considering how difficult it'd be to get the exact depth with a chisel at this angle), and then use wood filler and sandpaper to smooth it out. How's that sound?


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## aslsmm (Sep 17, 2010)

it all depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. if your going for a natural finish then wood filler is a negative. if your painting it with graphics then it would be a go. honestly the closer you get to finishing the route the slower it will take. it's a very long slow tedious process, but if its done with patience it will be the only one like it out there. trust me man ive done about 6 guitars from start to finish and they all go through the pain in the ass stage. the ones ive tried to rush i ended up ruining the whole thing. i screwed up one pick up mount so bad that a pick gaurd was the only fix. it sucked bad. ive never used warmoth but i know there not cheap. you wouldn't want to bust that project. from the pics it looks like you have an eye for detail. your hammer and chisel route is just outstanding.


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## aslsmm (Sep 17, 2010)

here's a pic of my last guitar i finished. i did great on it till the i installed the tunners. i got impatient and it cost me. 




































and here is where i went wrong. i drilled the wrong holes for the tunners so now im forever stuck with 6 little holes on the back of the rather expensive neck.






yeah. it sucks. im in to this one about 600, granted its totally awesome in playability but those will bug me for the rest of it's life. i need to get the back plates also but when you get almost done with a guitar project some times you'll put the finishing touches pretty low on the priority list. i'll get the plates for it this month.


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2010)

Final depth (I hope)! About 1-1/8" deep. The schematic called for 7/8", the instructions on wammiworld.com say 1", so I should be OK. All hammer and chisel.  Next I'll sand it smooth and fill in the gaps with wood filler, and sand it smooth again.










Sneek preview:


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2010)

Fantastic work!!!


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## Customisbetter (Sep 23, 2010)

So jealous.


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## aslsmm (Sep 24, 2010)

incredible man, really nice


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## Durero (Sep 24, 2010)

Nice


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## sevenstringj (Oct 10, 2010)

I got the front and rear screws on the Kahler mixed up, so the holes I drilled for the rear screws are too big. What now? I'm thinking dowels would be ideal, but do they make 1/8" dowels? I've always been wary of using wood filler. I don't care what the bottle says, that stuff is flakey as hell and easily stripped... unless I've simply done it wrong in the past.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 10, 2010)

Fill the screw holes with toothpicks dipped in wood glue. It becomes super solid.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 10, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Fill the screw holes with toothpicks dipped in wood glue. It becomes super solid.



Interesting. Any wood glue in particular? I remember seeing tons of them at Lowes.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 10, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Interesting. Any wood glue in particular? I remember seeing tons of them at Lowes.



I've always used Titebond, the Original with the red label.

EDIT: I just want to add that I have used the wood glue & toothpicks method on strap pins, trem claw screws, and pickguard screws and have never had a screw pull free.


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## TomParenteau (Oct 10, 2010)

Hardware stores have 1/8" dowel, but the regular stuff is usually pretty wimpy.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 10, 2010)

TomPerverteau said:


> Hardware stores have 1/8" dowel, but the regular stuff is usually pretty wimpy.



So between "wood" dowels and "oak" dowels, I should get the oak?


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## iRaiseTheDead (Oct 10, 2010)

dude this is looking really sweet.


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## TomParenteau (Oct 10, 2010)

Oh, hell yes! The oak will hold a screw much better.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 10, 2010)

Cool. In the meantime, here's the finished body. I used gunstock oil, as I did on the neck.











I decided to check out the humbucker (Rio Grande Muy Grande)...











It don't fit.  I already filed down the corners of the baseplate. Now I'mma try some first-time pickup surgery. Two ends of the coils are soldered to lead wire right at the corners. Gonna desolder, file down the corners, and resolder.

To be continued...


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## JamesM (Oct 10, 2010)

This is the most raging build EVARRRR.

Keep it up man!


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## sevenstringj (Oct 11, 2010)

Update on the pickup.

I desoldered the white and green wires from the copper coil wires and hacked off the corners till the damn thing fit...






Reconnected the lead and copper wires...






It ain't pretty, but I'm getting a reading of about 10k between lead wires of each coil, and about 19.5k in series. (Official spec is 18.2k, which I'm sure can vary a bit.) So I think I may have just pulled this off! I'll know for sure in a couple weeks when I'm all finished.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 22, 2010)

I want to mount the humbucker directly, but the pickup cavity was obviously routed to accommodate a pickup ring with obnoxiously long pickup height screws.  So to fill in the abyss on each side, I took a wood dowel ever so slightly larger in diameter than the widest point of the pickup leg cavities and trimmed it to size...














Yes, it took a lot longer than those 3 photos. 

Now, I had this idea to use threaded inserts to mount the humbuckers, because I couldn't find black wood screws small enough. So here's the first one...






And for the second...


















This is my fault. These things are a lot harder to install _straight_ than I thought they'd be. I'm waiting for another one, but I also ordered steel inserts. They're meant for metal so they have a smaller outer threading, but they might do the trick since it's oak. And if it don't work, I can always use the brass one (more meticulously this time ).

But in the meantime, I had to fix the battered hole, so I drilled it a bit larger and stuffed it with another oak dowel...










BTW, this is what I've been using to cut these dowels to size:






Manly tool is manly.


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## possumkiller (Oct 22, 2010)

lol your guitar is made of dowels.

j/k thats pretty kickass dude. I like your pickup mounting style.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 22, 2010)

^

Actually, I forgot to mention that I resolved the Kahler screw hole issue without dowels! I just got a couple of #6 black screws from fastenal.com. (Lowes and Home Depot didn't have black wood/metal screws.)


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## sevenstringj (Oct 26, 2010)

Got the other insert in. I don't think it's perfect, but it should be close enough.






Now, I was thinking of how to ground the bridge. I didn't want to solder wire directly to it, so here's my alternative. I hope it works!











In other news, I botched the neck heel screw holes on the neck. I had to widen the holes in the body so the neck would sit flush in the pocket. I didn't bother taking photos of that because it's embarrassing.  Hopefully I won't have to drill even bigger holes and plug 'em with...

...dowels!!!  'Cause they'd have to be around 1/2"! 

But I think it'll be fine, especially with string tension.


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 26, 2010)

that is looking so good man


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## thewildturkey (Oct 27, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Now, I was thinking of how to ground the bridge. I didn't want to solder wire directly to it, so here's my alternative. I hope it works!




I like the thinking here ^ very clever.


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 27, 2010)

Is that a pau ferro fret board I see? Dont remember it being mentioned on the thread.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 27, 2010)

scherzo1928 said:


> Is that a pau ferro fret board I see? Dont remember it being mentioned on the thread.



You know your fretboards!


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## bostjan (Oct 27, 2010)

I've loved Pau Ferro ever since the Villette MK II Baritone!

The guitar seems to be coming together well despite your epic frustrations.


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 27, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> You know your fretboards!


 
It's a really nice looking wood, and I reaaaaally considered getting one.
Great choice.


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## bostjan (Oct 27, 2010)

Yeah, a lot of businesses do just that. It translates to: "We won't do it because we don't want to." It gets really frustrating for lefties and to some extent ERG players like us.


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## SYLrules88 (Oct 27, 2010)

your conversation with warmoth cracked me up pretty good, but thats also one of my concerns as i have this same 7 string body and a neck on its way. im just going to take mine to my store and have them do it.

also, i ordered my body with HSS routing but in yours it doesn't look like there's much room at all for a mid SC.  is this due to the angle your photo was taken at or are my routes going to be crowded?

btw your finished body looks really nice.  cant wait to see thing finished


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## sevenstringj (Oct 27, 2010)

SYLrules88 said:


> your conversation with warmoth cracked me up pretty good, but thats also one of my concerns as i have this same 7 string body and a neck on its way. im just going to take mine to my store and have them do it.
> 
> also, i ordered my body with HSS routing but in yours it doesn't look like there's much room at all for a mid SC.  is this due to the angle your photo was taken at or are my routes going to be crowded?
> 
> btw your finished body looks really nice.  cant wait to see thing finished



The spacing will probably be tight. Not just because of the 25" scale length, but because their deep cutaway and no fretboard overhang prevent the neck pickup from being too close to the neck.

Originally, I asked them to rout for 2 EMGs. They fucked up and routed for 2 passive humbuckers. But they were so close to each other that I would've been knocking into the neck pickup with my pick. So I sent it back and had them redo it with a single coil in the neck, and told them to make it at least 12cm away from where the bridge saddles would be. They said that if their CNC machines aren't set up to accommodate my spec automatically, then they'd have to do it "by hand" and charge me $45 extra. A couple weeks later I saw a $45 charge on my account.

(In hindsight, this should've told me that they COULD'VE easily drilled the holes in the neck heel. I was talking to the wrong guy. Rob is the man to talk to over there. Spike seems like a cool dude as well.)

So I'd guess your 2 single coils will be pretty close. But you'll find out soon enough.


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## sevenstringj (Oct 27, 2010)

Smoothed over my humbucker hack job...







Shielded the pickup cavities and connected ground wires...






...and they're in!






Shielded the rear cavity...






I'm just waiting on the pots. I do have Bourns mini pots, which are great, but the knobs I got don't fit. (Run-of-the-mill black dome knobs... from Warmoth. Should've known. ) So I ordered CTS pots.

I also got some small rectangular oak to shim the nut. That'll be the last step!


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## ralphy1976 (Oct 28, 2010)

looks really good man, well done!!!


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## JohnIce (Oct 28, 2010)

Looks amazingly clean, man! Sorry if I missed the specs somewhere in the thread but which singlecoil did you end up with?


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## sevenstringj (Oct 28, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> Looks amazingly clean, man! Sorry if I missed the specs somewhere in the thread but which singlecoil did you end up with?



Rio Grande Muy Grande.


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## JohnIce (Oct 28, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Rio Grande Muy Grande.



Cool! I ended up with Lollars myself, we'll have to share some sound clips when you're done


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## darren (Oct 28, 2010)

Coming together nicely! I can't help but think chiseling out the corners of the pickup cavity might have been a lot easier (and less risky) than modifying the pickup itself. And yeah, drilling holes for the threaded inserts you really have to use a drill press.


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## sevenstringj (Nov 7, 2010)

Got it all wired up!






Now the last task was to shim the nut. Y'all know how much I love dowels...






Used chisel and hammer again to cut it down to size...






Improvised a sanding press (whatever that is, I just made it up ) to thin it out...














I went from coarse to medium to light as it got thinner.

Threw a few strings on to test the height (several times, of course), and I think it's good!






I'm not gonna fully string up until I get a truss rod wrench. I didn't realize until now that Warmoth didn't include one. 

But I plugged it in, and... *IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!*






It's 1 volume, 1 tone, 1 dummy knob (thought I'd use 2 tones, but couldn't bother), and a 5-way super switch as follows:

1: bridge humbucker in series
2: bridge humbucker inner coil alone
3: bridge humbucker inner coil + neck single coil in series
4: bridge humbucker inner coil + neck single coil in parallel
5: neck single coil

Soon enough...


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 7, 2010)

i'd us a dowel instead of a toothpick because the dowel is perfectly round and will make contact on the entire surface where as a toothpick might not.

Edit: i guess they make round tooth picks too huh?  all im used to seeing are the square ones


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## SYLrules88 (Nov 7, 2010)

well shit, do you happen to know what size allen wrench for this truss rod? i have a bunch sitting around and probably have one the correct size, but just wanna make sure

really nice job on the shielding. it looks really clean. mines not gonna look NEAR that good. plus, copper tape just looks better than aluminum tape


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## sevenstringj (Nov 7, 2010)

SYLrules88 said:


> well shit, do you happen to know what size allen wrench for this truss rod? i have a bunch sitting around and probably have one the correct size, but just wanna make sure



5/16". I already ordered one from the 'bay, but thanks. Shoulda hollered at you guys first!


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## sevenstringj (Nov 9, 2010)

Does it ever end? 

So I finally started stringing up, and lo and behold, the strings are sitting on the philips screws that hold down the saddles, not the saddles themselves...






The fretboard doesn't sit high enough--the neck pocket is not angled--so the saddles need to sit relatively low for even a medium action. This causes some of the strings to sit on the philips screws and not in the saddles. I'm gonna first try replacing those screws with flat head screws. Why they used pan head screws is beyond me. From a design standpoint it should be obvious that they'd get in the way of a low action and/or straight (non-angled) neck pocket.

*sigh*

Then again, this is my first Kahler. Any other ideas on why this is happening?


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## ivancic1al (Nov 9, 2010)

^Oh the countless joys of guitar assembly. I went through a similar series of FUUUUUUUUs!!!!!! when I was assembling my strat from spare parts this summer. I think having to drill the neck holes myself was the most harrowing part, cause if you fuck up...the guitar is fucked up. I haven't ever dealt with anything as complicated as a kahler before, but as far as the neck pocket angle, may I be so bold as to suggest un-bolting the neck and using an angled shim between the body and neck? Likely not the best idea, but all I can think of at the moment. Your guitar will be 75% oak dowels eventually!


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## No2EMGs4Me (Nov 11, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> EDIT: I just want to add that I have used the wood glue & toothpicks method on strap pins, trem claw screws, and pickguard screws and have never had a screw pull free.



I second that...probably done it to 100+ guitars and basses including my own over the years and never had to do it to the same axe twice. I can't vouch for others but some of mine got thrown around hard at some shows. Trick is to make sure you pack as much into the hole on the body as you can.


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## SYLrules88 (Nov 11, 2010)

damn this makes me glad i opted for the flatmount bridge and none of this trem madness.

would you mind telling me which jack you went with? i had them route the smallest hole of the 3 options but the distance to the control cavity looks too deep that only a barrel jack will fit but i see you have a normal one.


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## sevenstringj (Nov 11, 2010)

SYLrules88 said:


> damn this makes me glad i opted for the flatmount bridge and none of this trem madness.
> 
> would you mind telling me which jack you went with? i had them route the smallest hole of the 3 options but the distance to the control cavity looks too deep that only a barrel jack will fit but i see you have a normal one.



Believe it or not, the Kahler cavity was the LEAST troublesome thing about this whole project!  It's all the other Warmoth exclusive shit that's made this a real pain in the ass.

I had them drill the largest available hole for the output jack. I believe it's 7/8". I got a Switchcraft jack. You might be able to fit it by bending the tabs.

BTW, kudos to hoaglandbrothers.com for carrying Switchcraft jacks with _black_ nuts and washers!  Couldn't find 'em any place else.


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## Hollowway (Nov 20, 2010)

I pretty much had the exact same Kahler issues on my Interceptor 827. I polished off the heads of the screws, then shimmed the neck, etc. The fact that the low strings bottom out very early in a dive bomb, whereas the high E only drops a step and a half with the bar fully depressed, is IMO a design flaw that becomes obvious in 7 and 8 string guitars. The cam should be asymmetric to compensate.
But one thing I figured out that will help is that before you put the low B and E strings on, bend the ball end at a 90 degree angle toward the bridge. That will keep the string pressed against the cam so it can't rise up and then dump into the pups when you dive. If that doesn't make sense I can take a picture. But it makes a HUGE difference.


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## sevenstringj (Nov 20, 2010)

^That actually helped! 

But I'm still not getting the sustain I'm used to in the upper registers, even after I swapped the Muy Grande for a normal humbucker. So I added another shim to the neck pocket to see if I could get more downward pressure on the saddles for [presumably] more sustain. It helped a tad, but still not quite there.

At this point, I figure it's the frets, or maybe the Kahler simply doesn't sustain as well as a fixed bridge or Floyd?


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## Prydogga (Nov 20, 2010)

That's a really awesome looking piece of fretboard, and the whole guitar looks killer, shame about all the setbacks you've had, but you've dealt with the really well dude! I love the look of those Rio Grandes, but I'm sure a BKP will rape face.


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## xiphoscesar (Nov 20, 2010)

bangbros ftw


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> ^That actually helped!
> 
> But I'm still not getting the sustain I'm used to in the upper registers, even after I swapped the Muy Grande for a normal humbucker. So I added another shim to the neck pocket to see if I could get more downward pressure on the saddles for [presumably] more sustain. It helped a tad, but still not quite there.
> 
> At this point, I figure it's the frets, or maybe the Kahler simply doesn't sustain as well as a fixed bridge or Floyd?



I think that's the case, unfortunately. I'm not finding as much sustain with mine, either, but it's limited to the higher strings and high up on the neck at that. I was going to suggest you shim the neck more, but I see you already did. Plus, the more pressure the string puts on the saddle the more likely it is to not return to pitch after string bends (the classic Kahler curse). I've got an 8 string on order with BRJ and Strictly 7, both with Kahlers, so we'll see what professional luthiers are able to accomplish with a Kahler. Either way, I like trems, so I'm not likely to not order Kahlers in the future (unless, Hell freezes over and Floyd starts making 8 string trems).


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## sevenstringj (Nov 21, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> I'm not finding as much sustain with mine, either, but it's limited to the higher strings and high up on the neck at that.



Yep. Though I got the first string sustaining a lot better now. Might have been the gauge. I think it was a 9, and I just threw on a 9.5. But the 2nd string is still dropping out too soon. It may be the frets. I could also try the next gauge on that as well. I'll play around with it some more tomorrow.


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## iron blast (Nov 21, 2010)

You can change out the cam to improve sustain. Kahler has more info on this.


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2010)

sevenstringj said:


> Yep. Though I got the first string sustaining a lot better now. Might have been the gauge. I think it was a 9, and I just threw on a 9.5. But the 2nd string is still dropping out too soon. It may be the frets. I could also try the next gauge on that as well. I'll play around with it some more tomorrow.



Good to hear that 9.5 made a difference. I might give that a shot as well.

When you replaced the pan head screws on the saddles, where did you get the flat head ones? Just at the hardware store?


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## sevenstringj (Nov 21, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Good to hear that 9.5 made a difference. I might give that a shot as well.
> 
> When you replaced the pan head screws on the saddles, where did you get the flat head ones? Just at the hardware store?



Home | Fastenal

Best-organized site for these sorts of things. It's so easy to find exactly what you need. The only bitch is that they ship UPS, so you'll pay 6-7 bucks shipping for some fucking screws that could've been thrown into a padded envelop with a stamp or two. 



iron blast said:


> You can change out the cam to improve sustain. Kahler has more info on this.



I believe their 7 and 8 string trems are only available with brass cams. But I'll ask.


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## Meatball (Nov 24, 2010)

I am experiencing the same issue with strings hitting the heads of the philips screws on my Bc Rich KKW7, and that is a neck through so shimming the neck is not an option. I can reach a decent action but the neck and fretjob on that guitar seems to be absolutely flawless so I want to try a really low action but thats where the Kahler puts an end to it..

If you could share the exact dimensions of the flat top screws you are using I would be very grateful.


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## darren (Nov 24, 2010)

Another option would be to recess the Kahler slightly... like the depth of the base plate. That would give you a little bit more break angle over the saddles.


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## Meatball (Nov 24, 2010)

Recessing the bridge would involve precision routing in the top of a finished guitar, which is not an easy task. I would at least want to try changing the screws first to see if it solves the problem.


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## Meatball (Nov 25, 2010)

I mailed Kahler about my problem and they are shipping me flat top screws free of charge. Thats great customer service in my opinion.


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## Hollowway (Nov 25, 2010)

Meatball said:


> I mailed Kahler about my problem and they are shipping me flat top screws free of charge. Thats great customer service in my opinion.



Wow, that's awesome! And hopefully a hint to them to switch to those for production. Technically it's a luthier issue to make sure the bridge is/isn't recessed and can play correctly, but Kahler is going to bear the brunt of the blame. I just ground the heads off of mine and used a Sharpie to color it black again. Flat head screws are way less of a ghetto solution, so I'm gong to try those myself.


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## Darth Nihilus (Nov 27, 2010)

The reason you're having this problem is because Kahler's need the guitar to have neck angle. Place a wooden shim in the neck pocket and the added neck angle will require you to crank up the rollers. Just make sure you don't add too much of an angle or else the back of the saddles will rub against the cam.


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