# Once Again, New Agile Pendulum 7s



## trb (Sep 17, 2010)

Agile Pendulum 7 Tribal Red at RondoMusic.com







Thoughts?


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## splinter8451 (Sep 17, 2010)

Still no slanted pickup. Still gonna sound like poop.


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## orb451 (Sep 17, 2010)

Yeah, I thought Kurt was going to address that issue...  Too bad too because that looks pretty slick.


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## OrsusMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

Why would he change the nut but not the pickup? The straight nut wasn't the issue. Also, I'm sad they got rid of the inline headstock. I thought it looked much better. I would have picked one of these up a long time ago if the pickup was angled, just like many of the others on this site. 

On another note it is nice they went for the passive route. If it was angled that would be even better.


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## ephrion (Sep 17, 2010)

A for effort, F for usability. Sorry, try again.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but who here has had extensive experience with fanned fret instruments enough to say, without a doubt, that there is no chance that a non-swept pickup will ever sound good?

For the record, there are $6000+ custom Conklin fanned fret guitars, and basses which use non-slanted pickups. As well as those which use a combination of slanted and non-slanted.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 17, 2010)

Oh plz don't tell me thats the final version...

I've been waiting this whole time with my fingers crossed for him to release one with a slanted bridge pickup... I'm sorry but a veneer or even a full on top Isn't addressing the biggest flaw thats keeping me (and I assume most people) from running to buy one of these.

Fix the pickup route *please*! I don't even care if it comes with a bridge pickup! Just give me a slanted route and I'll put my own pups in there!


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## pink freud (Sep 17, 2010)

If the pickup had a dramatically exaggerated curved EQ structure, it could sound OK. The bass side would have to kick the treble and the treble side would have to be mellowed for a balanced sound. Winding it in such a way seems like it would be a pain in the ass compared to even slanting two single coils for a pseudobucker config.


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## blister7321 (Sep 17, 2010)

i like the look of this better than the plain top chrome hardware and (gasp) reverse headstock to me the intrepid hs works better


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## leonardo7 (Sep 17, 2010)

This is like using a middle humbucker on the lower strings and I dont like using a middle humbucker on the lower strings. I need a bridge pickup on the lower strings and this is major fail IMO for what I would need. I swear if it had a slanted pickup Id buy it as would Im sure many many others. Kurt is awesome but he messed up here bigtime.


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## Origin (Sep 17, 2010)

Great aesthetic but the pickup ....god..DAMMIT


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## Razzy (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but who here has had extensive experience with fanned fret instruments enough to say, without a doubt, that there is no chance that a non-swept pickup will ever sound good?
> 
> For the record, there are $6000+ custom Conklin fanned fret guitars, and basses which use non-slanted pickups. As well as those which use a combination of slanted and non-slanted.


 
+1

Wasn't there someone on SS.org that bought one of the first batch, and they said it sounded great regardless?


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## splinter8451 (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but who here has had extensive experience with fanned fret instruments enough to say, without a doubt, that there is no chance that a non-swept pickup will ever sound good?
> 
> For the record, there are $6000+ custom Conklin fanned fret guitars, and basses which use non-slanted pickups. As well as those which use a combination of slanted and non-slanted.



I am just going off the few people's reviews who bought them back when they first came out and sent them back  The pickup on these is not even pushed back to the bridge which I assume would just make the bass side even muddier. It would probably sound decent on the bass side if the pickup was moved back another inch to the bridge.

I would be all over one of these even if it just had a slanted EMG 808 in the bridge.

EDIT: Or I could be making up the reviews I read  I'm searching now.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 17, 2010)

The flat black one looks pretty tasty.
Agile Pendulum 7 Flat Black at RondoMusic.com
Hopefully that will be a colour available when he slants the pickup.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

splinter8451 said:


> I am just going off the few people's reviews who bought them back when they first came out and sent them back  The pickup on these is not even pushed back to the bridge which I assume would just make the bass side even muddier. It would probably sound decent on the bass side if the pickup was moved back another inch to the bridge.
> 
> I would be all over one of these even if it just had a slanted EMG 808 in the bridge.



Were there more reviews? I only remember that one guy who said he got one one, but returned it before he took pictures, or did anything really. (Kinda dubious if you ask me.)

Did they have their separate threads, or were they all just in that big fanned Agile thread?


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## splinter8451 (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Were there more reviews? I only remember that one guy who said he got one one, but returned it before he took pictures, or did anything really. (Kinda dubious if you ask me.)
> 
> Did they have their separate threads, or were they all just in that big fanned Agile thread?



Yeah I edited my original post  I am looking for the thing I read but I'm starting to think I just made it up in my head 

EDIT: Whatever happened to this thing? I'm waiting for this to show up, hopefully minus the Kahler though (simply to keep cost down)


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## AvantGuardian (Sep 17, 2010)

I haven't really been keeping up on this model, but I think a model with a neck pickup and a slanted bridge pickup would really capture the benefits of a multi-scale guitar a lot better. If you want really a really tight rhythm sound on that low B, you probably want to be using a bridge pickup that is pretty close to the bridge. If you want the advantage of smooth lead sounds on the shorter higher strings, its fairly likely you'll want to flip to the neck pickup.

I'm glad Kurt's taking the leap into fanned fret territory, and I'd love to grab on of these just to try out the whole fanned fret thing but I'd definitely need to both of these pickup issues addressed before picking one of these up.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

I guess I'd just figure a fanned 7 for $550 would be more attractive for experimentation purposes. Hell, I'm no Agile fan, and I really don't like the specs or scale, but I'm intrigued. 

People buy Jackson Cows for more just to route for a neck pickup. The same goes for those who put Lundgrens, BKPs, and other boutique pickups in lower end MIK and MII instruments. 

It wouldn't be too hard to route one for a slanted EMG or Blackout, then just refinish it. 

Oh well, I guess these are just set up to fail.


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## splinter8451 (Sep 17, 2010)

I'd get one just to try out if I had extra money around  things are too tight right now though. Hopefully someone will post a good review of these eventually.


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## Necris (Sep 17, 2010)

splinter8451 said:


> Yeah I edited my original post  I am looking for the thing I read but I'm starting to think I just made it up in my head


I do remember one guy who joined the forum just to basically call us a bunch of assholes for not being on board with the whole "fanned frets with a straight pickup" idea and said he would be buying one. Maybe that's who you are thinking of.


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## garza (Sep 17, 2010)

That is out there for sure. Agile guitars don't sound good at all, but I do respect they make a affordable 7-string. That brand has a good thing going. I wish I had my hands on one back in the day.


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## Customisbetter (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I guess I'd just figure a fanned 7 for $550 would be more attractive for experimentation purposes. Hell, I'm no Agile fan, and I really don't like the specs or scale, but I'm intrigued.
> 
> People buy Jackson Cows for more just to route for a neck pickup. The same goes for those who put Lundgrens, BKPs, and other boutique pickups in lower end MIK and MII instruments.
> 
> ...



I want to buy a few just so Kurt gets the sales, but alas, i don't need a fanned fret 7. Slanted pup or not.


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## splinter8451 (Sep 17, 2010)

garza said:


> That is out there for sure. *Agile guitars don't sound good at all*, but I do respect they make a affordable 7-string. That brand has a good thing going. I wish I had my hands on one back in the day.


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## Customisbetter (Sep 17, 2010)

Yeah i ignored that post. All 4 of my Agiles have sounded great.


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 17, 2010)

If Kurt had these new models come out he must have been somewhat satisfied with how the first run sold. Like Max said there are ridiculously expensive custom guitars with the same pickup setup. It's probably not the best idea for metal but I bet it would great for other styles of music



splinter8451 said:


>




I think this video is more of an example of how awesome of a player Angel is and not how great Agiles sound


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

Conks with both pickups in standard orientation:
Custom Shop solid Burl Maple Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop 3-piece Melted Top Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Melted Top hollowbody Crossover 8 string guitar
Custom Shop all black Sidewinder 9 string guitar

Conks with one pickup at standard orientation:
Custom Shop carved Birdseye top Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Birdseye top Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Buckeye top Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Quilt top fanned fret Sidewinder 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Melted Sidewinder top 8 string guitar
Custom Shop Melted Top NuWave 9 string guitar
Custom Shop figured Maple top Sidewinder 9 string guitar

For the ones with slanted bridge pickups, look at how far some of them are placed from the bridge. 

Conklin 8s start at $5000, some of these are over $12,000.


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## clouds (Sep 17, 2010)

Edit: I have made a fool of myself. Sorry for the rant. I need to think things through before I do it next time .


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

clouds said:


> I wish people would stop bitching about Agile at the moment; Kurt & co are busting their asses to make a 7 or an 8 to appease every single one of your slight needs or specifications. They have more 7s and 8s in more specifications then any other company and they're constantly pushing out new models.
> 
> In a nutshell, they actually LISTEN to what you want unlike a lot of other companies and yet loads of people bitch when they don't have one feature in a model. I understand that this slanted pickup business may have been an issue for a while now, but some people need to just shut the fuck up and appreciate and respect what Agile is doing at the moment.
> 
> /rant.



Part of "listening" is being able to take the good with the bad. If Agile can't take criticism, just our cash, then a lot of the praise you shower them with is hollow. 

Though, from what it seems they can take constructive (and some not so constructive) criticism. Now _that_ is worth praise. 

What asses are being busted by the way? We show interest in a model being produced, Kurt relays that to his OEM factory in Korea, then they bang up a few models. Kurt and his staff aren't building these out of the bones of their children. Rondo has made quite the profit off this forum, and as such owes _us_ just as much as we owe _him_. 

While I didn't care for my Agile guitars as much as I wished, I'll still support the company when they do something great, such as these fanned fret guitars and the current 9-strings. 

If we didn't "bitch" as you put it, then there wouldn't be any new or exciting models. Its that bitching that gets new models, finishes, scales, pickups, etc. into production. It goes hand in hand with buying them. If people didn't "bitch" about unwanted hum in their guitar sound then no one would have invented the Humbucker.

Praise with no constructive criticism leads to complacency. If you want to see where that leads look at Gibson or Fender.


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 17, 2010)

No one said that it's gonna sound like the poop,since you have long scale at the low and short at the high strings,so it gets compensated.I deem that neck pickups aren't that much affected if they are straight,since the distance from the bridge is anyways farther.But...You don't take advantage of the whole hassle about the multiscale..It's like not choosing side.I mean..It's like not knowing if you like more Angelina Jolie or Monica Bellucci.


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## AvantGuardian (Sep 17, 2010)

clouds said:


> In a nutshell, they actually LISTEN to what you want...


 
We are saying we want a slanted pickup (and I'm saying I want a neck pickup too). Agile/Rondo is a business, they want to sell guitars and make money. Listening to the customers and finding a way to produce what they want at a reasonable price seems to be a great strategy for them. I'm really happy with my Agile guitars and I'm glad there's a company out there doing what they do. Based on the response I've seen so far on this site, a couple of tweaks to this model could probably help it sell better. Not sure why you're getting bent out of shape about potential customers voicing their concerns and offering suggestions.


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## clouds (Sep 17, 2010)

AvantGuardian said:


> We are saying we want a slanted pickup (and I'm saying I want a neck pickup too). Agile/Rondo is a business, they want to sell guitars and make money. Listening to the customers and finding a way to produce what they want at a reasonable price seems to be a great strategy for them. I'm really happy with my Agile guitars and I'm glad there's a company out there doing what they do. Based on the response I've seen so far on this site, a couple of tweaks to this model could probably help it sell better. Not sure why you're getting bent out of shape about potential customers voicing their concerns and offering suggestions.



Ok, that's cool. I appreciate what you're both saying. Sorry for the rant, but I seem to see a lot of moaning that Agile don't do this or that, though Max has proved a good point in saying that it's a two way thing.

Waiting for neg rep ambush .


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For the ones with slanted bridge pickups, look at how far some of them are placed from the bridge.
> 
> Conklin 8s start at $5000, some of these are over $12,000.



Also a pdf setup guide on their site encourages to loosen the strings completely before adjusting the truss rod.That says me more about their credibility than their prices.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

Deadnightshade said:


> Also a pdf setup guide on their site encourages to loosen the strings completely before adjusting the truss rod.That says me more about their credibility than their prices.



I mentioned the prices to point out that these aren't cheap, on the whim instruments. A lot of thought and planning goes in. If straight pickups sucked as bad as many make it seem, then why would they constantly be appearing on such high end instruments in such quantity? Granted, not all those guitars are going to be used in Extreme Metal. 

As for th truss rod thing, there's two conventions of thought, 1) the truss rod should be moved under limited string tension, and 2) the truss rod should be moved at full tension. Who is right? Both. I've tried both methods on many occasions, and really, they both work equally well, and in ten years I've yet to damage a single neck out of hundreds of guitars I've owned and worked on.


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I mentioned the prices to point out that these aren't cheap, on the whim instruments. A lot of thought and planning goes in. If straight pickups sucked as bad as many make it seem, then why would they constantly be appearing on such high end instruments in such quantity? Granted, not all those guitars are going to be used in Extreme Metal.
> 
> As for th truss rod thing, there's two conventions of thought, 1) the truss rod should be moved under limited string tension, and 2) the truss rod should be moved at full tension. Who is right? Both. I've tried both methods on many occasions, and really, they both work equally well, and in ten years I've yet to damage a single neck out of hundreds of guitars I've owned and worked on.



I am talking about extreme metal here if they are are meant for other genres it's ok of course don't get me wrong on that ( although i'd love to see a reversed fan multiscale for the "fender" lovers )

The reason i mentioned the truss rod adjustment is:

Sure you can adjust it whith loose strings.But can't you do it better?Of course you can,cause at full tension you won't have to retune all the way again.

Same with the multiscales with straight pickups.Sure you can dial sweet tones,cause the string scales compensate.Can you do it better?Of course you can,if you slant 1 or both pickups.

I was expecting you to say you can adjust it both ways so that i could point my arguments better about the conklin's logic and the general logic for metal playing on a multiscale


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 17, 2010)

Deadnightshade said:


> Same with the multiscales with straight pickups.Sure you can dial sweet tones,cause the string scales compensate.Can you do it better?Of course you can,if you slant 1 or both pickups.



Like I asked before, in my first post in this thread, have you had ample experience with fanned fret instruments, to the point you can say that, legitimately and from experience, instead of just guessing like pretty much all of us here? 

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just trying to see if you're basing your opinion off of tried and true facts, or assumptions. 

I've only ever tried fanned fret basses, so I really can't comment on the guitar side of things as much. I would just hope folks would look at things objectively. 

I'm the type that believes there is no "better" when it comes to things as subjective as musical instruments and the way everyone hears things differently and with different opinions and emotions. There certainly is "different" though. Even in the world of Extreme Metal. 

Though, one more point I'd like to make. The black, fanned 9 and melted top, fanned 8 I posted links to, were used by Rusty Cooley in a Metal context to great effect.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 17, 2010)

Deadnightshade said:


> Also a pdf setup guide on their site encourages to loosen the strings completely before adjusting the truss rod.That says me more about their credibility than their prices.



I think that him saying the price helps us realize what a great deal the Pendulum is, as it's about 5% the cost.

Though maybe I'm over analyzing.


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Like I asked before, in my first post in this thread, have you had ample experience with fanned fret instruments, to the point you can say that, legitimately and from experience, instead of just guessing like pretty much all of us here?
> 
> Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just trying to see if you're basing your opinion off of tried and true facts, or assumptions.
> 
> ...




I own a multiscale with a slanted bridge pickup and it works really good,which is the "theoretical" optimum case for what actually the forum is asking from Rondo,to achieve certain tonal textures.Sure you can dial a nice tone with straight pickups.But unless Kurt makes the same model same woods with a slanted pup and we listen to a demo of both,we'll never know how dramatic the difference is.Until then,physics implies which of the two ways complies (i rhymed ) to what the possible buyers in this forum want.Even if the difference in sound means just dialing for example the mids by one setting on the amp.Which i personally doubt,cause although for example conklin prices make me sick,are surely better designed overally,and have better woods that agile.

I see what you mean about subjectiveness though don't worry .I know i'm overanalysing right now for what might be a small difference,but i think it's always good to search the best for your money (given the certain tonal goal we're talking about).Maybe the rest of the forum thinks alike,that's why these guitars aren't sold yet..

/rant cause my head will start to hurt


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## Hollowway (Sep 17, 2010)

Yeah, I also am waiting for a slanted pup, but I totally agree with Max about us making calls on something we have no experience with. If Rondo came out with the original Stratocaster design, or the EVH style pup slants in '80s Kramers we'd probably say it will never sound good, because of the slant, but clearly they do. So I guess what I'm saying is that, yes, more would sell if they slanted it, but we might also learn something if we try to get feedback from those that have played fanned instruments with straight pups. Otherwise we're just guessing.


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## Philligan (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm also gonna play some Devil's Advocate here. 

Take a look at these two pictures side by side (or top to bottom or whatever ). They both have passive pickups (for size) and 27" scale, at least on the bass side. Look at the 827, and the distance between the pickup edge and the low F# saddle. Looks to be about the width of the pickup itself, maybe a little bit less, eh?






Now look at the Pendulum. Once again, look at the distance between the edge of the pickup and the saddle itself. What's the distance look like, give or take the width of the pickup itself? Maybe a bit more? We also (or at least I) don't have the specs on the pickup sizing, these bobbins could be slimmer than the 827's (or vice versa, I really don't know, just saying).





Here are my thoughts. Keep in mind, I'm not saying anything for sure, I'm just throwing out an idea, and that idea's that it might not be as bad as we think. 

1) The frets (and therefore the bridge) are fanned, so seeing the pickup so close to the bridge on the treble side *could be* making the bass side seem farther away than it actually is.

2) Judging by my rough eyeballing of the distance on the bass side, it doesn't seem *too* too much father away than it does on the 827. Also, keep in mind that the bassplate of the 827's bridge seems to be a bit bigger (and go out a bit farther) than on the Pendulum, which will also make the pickup seem closer on the 827. And, how much difference could there really be? Will it really affect things that much?

At the end of the day, to be honest, I'm really curious about them, and wanna try one. I'd pull the trigger on one, but I'm broke  (and am GASing super hard for a 7 right now, I'm bummed I sold my last one). It might not be totally ideal, but I'm not sure if it's as big a deal as we're making it out to be.

Just my two cents, though (I don't know the shortcut for that emote ).


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 17, 2010)

Philligan said:


> .



The first one looks around the width of the pup, the pendulum looks to be about twice that.

Huge difference.

You also have to account for the fact that your comparing the low F# saddle of an 8 string to the low B saddle of a 7 string, if you pushed the 7 strings saddle as far back as the 8 strings (since its almost all the way back in order to intonate the low F#) it would be even farther than it already is. Not really a comparison. 

Can't say I've messed with a multiscale with a straight pup but I've definitely messed with a sc model before and never liked the sound of the middle pickup on the low strings (which is what your gonna get out of the low string on one of these)

If I can afford it I may pick one of these up and have to fill and route but I'd much rather not.

Oh and the guy who said the straight pup sounded great also said some shit like .100 gauge string in C2 sounds great on the same guitar.


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## Koshchei (Sep 18, 2010)

Great looking guitars - I bet they'd be excellent for jazz  Only comment on the concept is that I don't see the benefit in building a compound scale 7 string. An 8 or more string basically needs to be compound, but a fanned 7 is (to me) a little gimmicky.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 18, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Great looking guitars - I bet they'd be excellent for jazz  Only comment on the concept is that I don't see the benefit in building a compound scale 7 string. An 8 or more string basically needs to be compound, but a fanned 7 is (to me) a little gimmicky.



I'm with you there. 

If I got one of these I'd experiment with tuning other than standard, perhaps 5ths, where the 27" scale on the low end may come in handy, more so than the B for standard. In my opinion of course.


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## Durero (Sep 18, 2010)

I'll chime in as someone with extensive multi-scale playing experience.

The non-angled pickup is an absolute deal-breaker to me. The straight pickup is the equivalent, for the lowest strings, of playing a guitar with only a middle pickup and no bridge pickup. 

And yes this is from actual experience. My first prototype had an angled EMG 707 pickup which could not quite be angled optimally because it was not wide enough. Years later when the 808 came out I re-routed and installed it at the optimum parallel to the angled bridge and the tone improvement to the lowest string was quite a shock to me.

Now I've gone on to install single string pickups in an 'S' configuration with the lowest strings having a bridge-position pickup each, and then the pickup positions transitioning towards middle and neck positions for the higher strings. The tone is again significantly improved, at least to my subjective taste.


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## ralphy1976 (Sep 19, 2010)

i do have a multiscale axe (27,5" to 25") with a slanted pickup. What i can say in comparison with my "nomral" seven is that each note sound clearer and there is a little bit more definition in the low register.

i also like the fact that after playing for a bit my wrist feel slightly more relaxed than with the "normal" guitar, but that may just be me.

Overall, IF you are wondering about playing a multiscale, i would buy this Agile and get a feel for it. Hell you can possibly play it for a cuple of days (week-end wankerage) and then decide what to do with it?


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2010)

Durero said:


> I'll chime in as someone with extensive multi-scale playing experience.
> 
> The non-angled pickup is an absolute deal-breaker to me. The straight pickup is the equivalent, for the lowest strings, of playing a guitar with only a middle pickup and no bridge pickup.
> 
> ...


 
Well, there we go - someone who has played a fanned instrument with a straight pickup, and a fanned pickup (in the same instrument, no less!). So all of our speculation aside, this is the answer I've been waiting for. Sounds like the angled pickup is needed.

And, in case I haven't said it enough, the S pickup is sheer genius.


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## Krankguitarist (Sep 19, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Great looking guitars - I bet they'd be excellent for jazz  Only comment on the concept is that I don't see the benefit in building a compound scale 7 string. An 8 or more string basically needs to be compound, but a fanned 7 is (to me) a little gimmicky.



Meh.

In standard tuning it's a matter of personal preference. I do appreciate a longer scale length for that low B, but I prefer a shorter scale for teh wheedly whees. 

Alternate tunings are where something like a fanned fret setup would really shine on a 7, though. Tune the bottom three strings in fifths and the rest in standard, GDADGBe. That's what I've got my ibby tuned to, and with a 70 as the low g it's hanging on for dear life. Close to the range of an 8 string, there.

This model's got my attention. I share some concerns about the non-angled bridge pickup, but I'd like to hear from a few more people with experience in the matter. I do really like the look of the flat black model...not so hot on the veneer.


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## AhsanU (Sep 19, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Great looking guitars - I bet they'd be excellent for jazz  Only comment on the concept is that I don't see the benefit in building a compound scale 7 string. An 8 or more string basically needs to be compound, but a fanned 7 is (to me) a little gimmicky.



Couldn't agree more.


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## Durero (Sep 19, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Great looking guitars - I bet they'd be excellent for jazz  Only comment on the concept is that I don't see the benefit in building a compound scale 7 string. An 8 or more string basically needs to be compound, but a fanned 7 is (to me) a little gimmicky.


I couldn't disagree more. The benefits of multi-scale designs, for both tone and playability improvements, are the same regardless of the number of strings.

6 string guitars and 4 string basses benefit the same way extended-range instruments do. For example, a 25.5" to 24.75" fan on a 6-string gives you the low end clarity of a strat and the high end mellowness of a Les Paul, as well as being more comfortable for the hands.

It's not as if nothing happens until you reach 8-strings; the benefits affect the entire instrument regardless of the number of strings. Calling fanned frets gimmicky is like calling the multiscale design of harps, harpsichords, and pianos gimmicky, it just doesn't make sense to me because multiscale is a fundamentally good design and a huge improvement over single-scale for any instrument with more than one string imo.


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## Koshchei (Sep 19, 2010)

Right - I get what you're saying, but on a guitar without inherent design compromises, it's an issue that comes down to player preference:

A six or seven string guitar works just fine with a single scale. There are no compromises that you have to make with respect to how sonorous the notes are due to tension etc, or compromises that you have to make with respect to your own physiology.

On an eight or more string, the benefits of a compound scale become VASTLY more important, as you suddenly have to start making compromises -- do you want a flubby low end, or an awful sounding high end? Do you want a guitar that forces you to play lower notes with a 90 degree bend in your wrist because the fretboard is so much wider, or one that allows your hand to fall more naturally? 

My argument is that on eight and more string guitars, a compound scale stops being a matter of preference, and starts being one of usability. The guitar does not function correctly as a musical instrument without it.

We're basically making the same argument, I think: It's your preference to go for a guitar with a compound scale no matter what, and I don't care either way until the instrument starts hitting the limits of the design. You say either, and I say either.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 19, 2010)

The pickup's positioning problems were quite correctly addressed by Durero. I don't mind a non-slanted pickup in the neck position, and actually like it, as it gives you a mix of the 22 and 24 fretter sounds. In the bridge position, however, you're stuck with a pseudo-middle pickup, and the usually desired bite and definition bite the dust, regrettably.

As an example, all we need to do is a bit of comparison:






My Jaden Rose (sorry about the "fish eye" effect):





Ralphie's Siggery:


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## Walrus (Sep 19, 2010)

Agile Pendulum Pro 7 EB Flat Black






Agile Pendulum Pro 7 RN Nat w/Kahler






Agile Pendulum Pro 7 EB Nat


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## Durero (Sep 19, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Right - I get what you're saying, but on a guitar without inherent design compromises, it's an issue that comes down to player preference:
> 
> A six or seven string guitar works just fine with a single scale. There are no compromises that you have to make with respect to how sonorous the notes are due to tension etc, or compromises that you have to make with respect to your own physiology.
> 
> ...



 Well said and I agree with all your points. Where we judge the practical limit of straight frets is subjective and for me 6-strings are the most I'm willing to live with for straight frets, but I completely agree with your point that probably everyone will have a point where adding more strings to a single scale design becomes impractical.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 19, 2010)

Walrus said:


> Agile Pendulum Pro 7 EB Flat Black



It's so beautiful! I hate that it's $1300!

Though that's probably cheap, considering that it's got fanned frets and a kahler that works with the fanning.


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## Durero (Sep 19, 2010)

I love the fixed 7 there. Very exciting and inexpensive.


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## geofreesun (Sep 19, 2010)

if there is a multiscale 8 i'd be broke again


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2010)

Wow! Those look pretty badass.

That Kahler must cost as much as one of the non-slanted pickup models.


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## Customisbetter (Sep 19, 2010)

Oh god. That Black Pendulum is the first Agile i have Gassed for in a LONG time.

*checks accounts*

FUCK

If i get a extra paycheck before those sell out, I'm nabbing one.

EDIT: FUCK! Im setting that pic as my desktop background. 

EDit again:

Ther eis only one of those black kahlers left. For the love of fuck somebody buy that so Kurt stocks more.


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## gunshow86de (Sep 19, 2010)

For all you wrong-handed folks, there is a left version up now;

Agile Pendulum 7 Nat Left Handed at RondoMusic.com


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## scherzo1928 (Sep 19, 2010)

Walrus said:


>


 
OMFG, I might just have to get one of those by the end of the year. (since that's when someone can bring it home to me )

Btw, and i dont mean to highjack this thread:




Agile Hornet 825 EB Tribal Red w/Case at RondoMusic.com


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## Customisbetter (Sep 19, 2010)

^Kurt is a fuckin madman.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 19, 2010)

Ah, love the natural one - looks quite classy!


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## Double A (Sep 19, 2010)

That black pendulum pro is beautiful...


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## splinter8451 (Sep 19, 2010)

Godamn! So many cool fucking guitars. I'm so broke.


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## Varcolac (Sep 19, 2010)

Walrus said:


>



I just came buckets and shat bricks. Fanned frets with a kahler trem for the equivalent of less than a thousand of my British pounds? Hot diggity ding-damn. This is my next guitar purchase right here.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 19, 2010)

Holy shit kurt I want to have your babies 






IT WILL BE MINE!

Fuck my money needs to get here faster.


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## Xodus (Sep 19, 2010)

Wow....those are amazing. Fanned fret instruments are just plain awesome! 

Question time:

1.Is that an angled 7 string pickup or an angled 8 string pickup? The website lists it as an 8.
2.I've heard that you can lock a Kahler 2228 down by twisting some screws. Is that true, and can you do this on this model?
3.How often are waves of Agile guitars like this released? (i.e. when will they be back in stock after they sell out?)


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2010)

Xodus said:


> Wow....those are amazing. Fanned fret instruments are just plain awesome!
> 
> Question time:
> 
> ...



1) Yes, it appears to be an 8-string pickup that's swept for use with a fanned 7.
2) It appears so, the bolt for locking it down can be seen.
3) About 6 to 8 months depending on options/size of the run.

For the record, feel free to contact Kurt, he's a nice guy and will level with you.


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## Customisbetter (Sep 19, 2010)

There are only a couple of these pendulums right now. If they sell quickly, Kurt will have more by next year.


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## Xodus (Sep 19, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> 1) Yes, it appears to be an 8-string pickup that's swept for use with a fanned 7.
> 2) It appears so, the bolt for locking it down can be seen.
> 3) About 6 to 8 months depending on options/size of the run.
> 
> For the record, feel free to contact Kurt, he's a nice guy and will level with you.


That fits quite nicely with the time frame for me being able to afford one. This might be a dumb question, but shouldn't it have a locking nut, or are those not necessary on Kahlers?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2010)

Xodus said:


> That fits quite nicely with the time frame for me being able to afford one. This might be a dumb question, but shouldn't it have a locking nut, or are those not necessary on Kahlers?



Ideally it should, but as long as the nut is well lubricated it'll function adequately. It's not really meant for crazy trem use. 

If they kept with the straight nut/zero fret combo of the original one, they probably could have used a regular locking nut. 

I actually didn't notice this till now, and it's quite the deal breaker for me as far as the trem models go. I'm quite the trem abuser.


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## Xodus (Sep 19, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ideally it should, but as long as the nut is well lubricated it'll function adequately. It's not really meant for crazy trem use.
> 
> If they kept with the straight nut/zero fret combo of the original one, they probably could have used a regular locking nut.
> 
> I actually didn't notice this till now, and it's quite the deal breaker for me as far as the trem models go. I'm quite the trem abuser.


Would a good set of locking tuners work?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2010)

Xodus said:


> Would a good set of locking tuners work?



To an extent, but locking tuners are made to keep the string's windings under control, not keep the strings from binding, due to friction, at the nut, which is the cause of 90% of tuning issues on non-locking trem systems. 

A well lubricated nut will do a better job of keeping it in tune than even the best set of locking tuners.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 19, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ideally it should, but as long as the nut is well lubricated it'll function adequately. It's not really meant for crazy trem use.
> 
> If they kept with the straight nut/zero fret combo of the original one, they probably could have used a regular locking nut.
> 
> I actually didn't notice this till now, and it's quite the deal breaker for me as far as the trem models go. I'm quite the trem abuser.



Fuck,there's something else wrong with it! Hopefully Kurt will fix that for the next run.


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## Xodus (Sep 19, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> To an extent, but locking tuners are made to keep the string's windings under control, not keep the strings from binding, due to friction, at the nut, which is the cause of 90% of tuning issues on non-locking trem systems.
> 
> A well lubricated nut will do a better job of keeping it in tune than even the best set of locking tuners.


What kind of nut would be best in this situation?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 19, 2010)

dragonblade629 said:


> Fuck,there's something else wrong with it! Hopefully Kurt will fix that for the next run.



People shouldn't get too worked up over it. The average user will either lock the bridge in place or only use it for the occasional dive bomb. 

Unless you're trem nut like me, it'll be perfectly fine as long as you keep the nut lubed, which should be done on every guitar with a non-locking nut.




Xodus said:


> What kind of nut would be best in this situation?



There's nothing wrong with the one on there, just get yourself a tube of Big Bend's Nut Sauce (available at most music stores, small and chain, as well as online), and lube the nut slots on a somewhat regular basis. 

Ideally a high quality carbon/teflon nut like a GraphTech would be used, but Big Bend's pretty much works just as well. 

You could probably install a locking nut behind the standard nut as well, but it might look a little "rigged", and will require a nice amount of work to get right.


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## Origin (Sep 19, 2010)

Pendulum Pro - minus the trem = I buy it, not only because of the lower price


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm impressed how we can go on a collective rant about a non fanned pickup, and then BAM! Kurt posts up a slanted pup! I'm going to hold out for the 8 string version of this, which will likely have a 45DC for a pickup. Or maybe he'll do Cepheus for those, which would be totally cool.
And I'd like to see a straight lock nut with a zero fret.


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## paintkilz (Sep 19, 2010)

garza said:


> That is out there for sure. *Agile guitars don't sound good at all*, but I do respect they make a affordable 7-string. That brand has a good thing going. I wish I had my hands on one back in the day.



have you played one ever? not fair to compare to your custom shop schecters or esp or whatever but saying they dont sound good is ridiculous.


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## Krankguitarist (Sep 19, 2010)

Walrus said:


> http://www.rondomusic.com/pendulumpro7ebnat.html[/url]



Gotta say it...

WANT


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## SYLrules88 (Sep 19, 2010)

^i have the urge to buy that and stick a Q tuner in there 

too bad im done with buying mahogany guitars for a little while


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 20, 2010)

I am going to buy that and stick a q-tuner in it as soon as funds provide. Thats been the plan since these things were speculation ><


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## NickDowe (Sep 20, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Like I asked before, in my first post in this thread, have you had ample experience with fanned fret instruments, to the point you can say that, legitimately and from experience, instead of just guessing like pretty much all of us here?
> 
> Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just trying to see if you're basing your opinion off of tried and true facts, or assumptions.
> 
> ...




i agree 100%... i love how many people on this site just repeat something someone else posts with out any first hand experience like it's gospel. Just because the original poster says that something is garbage because the pickup isn't slanted, and that poster has been right about other things, doesnt mean you should repeat it yourself like you're the one with the experience on the subject. It gives the illusion that this is a real problem, when just one person thinks its a bad idea and the rest of you are just jumping on the band wagon and agreeing without first hand knowledge. Now i am sure the numbers are a bit better then 1 guy not liking it and 20 followers, but you get what I am saying. If you have never played a slant PuP set up vs. a Non-slant on a fanned 8 then please do not chime in because you throw off the curve. There maybe people interested in this guitar that will be turned off by the 20 nay sayers that have never even played a fanned 8 to begin with.


that said i love this site and it's members just please dont post nonsense just to agree with another member if you yourself do not know the facts.


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## silentrage (Sep 20, 2010)

^ I agree.


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## Rashputin (Sep 20, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Part of "listening" is being able to take the good with the bad. If Agile can't take criticism, just our cash, then a lot of the praise you shower them with is hollow.
> 
> Though, from what it seems they can take constructive (and some not so constructive) criticism. Now _that_ is worth praise.
> 
> ...





Constructive criticism is a good thing. I think it's great that Rondo/Kurt sell these affordable 7, 8 and 9-string guitars. I'm considering buying a fanned 8 if Kurt can get one with a ebony fingerboard, natural finish and a hard tail. 27" to 25,5" seems like a good compromise. You can go pretty low on a 27" without sacrificing the feel of the 25,5" scale.


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## simonXsludge (Sep 20, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


>


man...this is awesome. so much want! i'm just afraid it will cost me a ton of euros to get that into germany.


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## Neil (Sep 20, 2010)

I am loving the fixed natural pro, shame I have to wait for one to hit the used market before I can consider getting one 

F**k the UK...


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## xtrustisyoursx (Sep 20, 2010)

I wonder if this means that multiscale options will be available next time the custom shop opens


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## cyril v (Sep 20, 2010)

NickDowe said:


> i agree 100%... i love how many people on this site just repeat something someone else posts with out any first hand experience like it's gospel. Just because the original poster says that something is garbage because the pickup isn't slanted, and that poster has been right about other things, doesnt mean you should repeat it yourself like you're the one with the experience on the subject. It gives the illusion that this is a real problem, when just one person thinks its a bad idea and the rest of you are just jumping on the band wagon and agreeing without first hand knowledge. Now i am sure the numbers are a bit better then 1 guy not liking it and 20 followers, but you get what I am saying. If you have never played a slant PuP set up vs. a Non-slant on a fanned 8 then please do not chime in because you throw off the curve. There maybe people interested in this guitar that will be turned off by the 20 nay sayers that have never even played a fanned 8 to begin with.
> 
> 
> that said i love this site and it's members just please dont post nonsense just to agree with another member if you yourself do not know the facts.




I don't think people need to go ahead and buy one of these just to prove what they initially guessed. People are entitled to their own opinions and your kind of making an assumption that people don't know what they want in a guitar, it's a personal preference... 

I know what sound characteristics a humbucker in the bridge position will yield for me, both passive and active... and I also know what a humbucker in the middle position sounds like, and I can tell you with absolute certainty which one would be ideal for the music I like to play. 

I've moved my active pups (EMG's and SD's) back and forth between the middle position and the bridge on my guitar and while the middle position is useful for some things, it definitely isn't the sound I'd want for my go-to rhythm tone. If I was playing something leaning more towards rock, jazz or country, then I wouldn't have as much issue with the non-slanted, but it's pretty much essential for the type of sound I like (think Hate Eternal/Behemoth etc etc)... like-wise I also know for sure without ever touching one, that I would have just about no use for a guitar with just a middle pick-up. 

...with that said, the new models look slick as hell and I'll definitely be picking up something sooner or later with tax season coming u.


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## JamesM (Sep 21, 2010)

Can I get an amen for fanned fret Intrepid 8s? Slanted pickup please! Lol.


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## paintkilz (Sep 23, 2010)

for all the haters, why dont you buy the standard, spend around $100 on wood and build yourself a body with a slanted pup. then figure something out with the cepheus and reuse it, buy an 808x, or ask oni or some other fanned instrument maker to build a pup for it.

thats what ive intended to do if i ever got one of these, im just waiting for an 8 or 9string option.


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## tat2stu (Jan 25, 2012)

Hi Guys, Firstly excuse my ignorance im new here and new also to multiscale guitars. So what im wondering is do they play / setup like a normal 7 / 6 string guitar. How is the intonation set if the top string is so much longer than the bottom?
Can Rondo get these guitars custom made to anyones spec? I am looking for a 7 string multiscale neck thru for a carving project, but looking for a tunomatic bridge string thru. The top has to be pretty flat to accomodate a pin router. The natural guitar on this page is perfect but may be a bit too thin and lookes like a carved top instead of flat. Any help appreciated before i go to Ormsby for a custom job that im gonna have to carve up 
Thanks Stu


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Jan 25, 2012)

One-This is a pretty big necro that could have used its own thread.

Two-The only way you would be able to get a multiscale TOM, which would require angled saddle slots(that would be the easy part) and would need to be wider to accommodate the multiple scales. Sounds like it'd be more money than it's worth, and this is coming from a TOM fan.

Three- No Agile doesn't do full customs. They do have a semi-custom shop, though. Rondo Music Special Order / Custom Order Guitars


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## DancingCloseToU (Feb 2, 2012)

tat2stu said:


> Hi Guys, Firstly excuse my ignorance im new here and new also to multiscale guitars. So what im wondering is do they play / setup like a normal 7 / 6 string guitar. (A) How is the intonation set if the top string is so much longer than the bottom?
> Can Rondo get these guitars custom made to anyones spec? I am looking for a 7 string multiscale neck thru for a carving project, but looking for a tunomatic bridge string thru. The top has to be pretty flat to accomodate a pin router. The natural guitar on this page is perfect but may be a bit too thin and lookes like a carved top instead of flat. Any help appreciated before i go to Ormsby for a custom job that im gonna have to carve up
> Thanks Stu



A) The intonation works because of the angled frets. You achieve a certain note by cutting the string off at a particular place on the string (i.e. the octave is the string cut in half). So, these "particular places" have to move down or up as the string gets longer or shorter. I may not be explaining this very good, but the fan is necessary when your low and high strings are at different scale lengths.

B) Hats off yo you sir, you have way more balls (and money) than I do to go carving up something as expensive and as nice as an Ormsby. I'd personally just order something crazy custom and deal with the wait period for that kind of money/risk.


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## capoeiraesp (Feb 3, 2012)

Ormsby won't make a guitar that you can 'finish off'.


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## purpledc (Feb 3, 2012)

ephrion said:


> A for effort, F for usability. Sorry, try again.




I have to agree. Plus its debatable on which way the pickup should actually be slanted even if you were too do so. And even then the argument is completely subjective. But I will be the first to admit that I have never even been in the same zip code as a fanned fret guitar to my knowledge. But I try not to write ANYTHING off until ive tried it myself. Thats why I can say without a hesitation that hair conditioner and your girlfriends ass is a bad Idea. But thats a whole other topic.


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 3, 2012)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pi...heus-passive-multiscale-pups.html#post2846075


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