# NGD: Kiesel Vader 6 25.5" Candy Tangerine



## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

Where to begin, where to begin.....

Pictures?

Hello box, we meet again.






Looks like they have Kiesel on the cases already.





Next to the SCB6's hard case for comparison.





FIRST LOOK.





Window is behind me, indirect sunlight.





Time for multiple angles!










Turned on the overhead light.















COMBO LIGHTING.





Back side!





Together?





Close up of the cut away for 25.5" scale, end of the bridge.















Close up of bridge pickup and the slanted front of the bridge.










Side by side:










Those neck heels:





Let's get up and close to that Kiesel designed end cap:















Ok, so my thoughts from the last hour or so! Or, rambling story time?

First, this is my second Kiesel/Carvin. Last year I ordered an SCB6, which I was really happy with (See signature and comparison shots above.). When the Vader was announced, I bowed out due to 27" scale only, with a stated promise to order if 25.5" was made available. Which of course, it is!

Let's talk Vader: This is my first headless. It's definitely way lighter than the SCB6 (Though that's also a walnut behemoth). Not having a lot of trouble adjusting to the lack of a headstock really, but I feel as though the neck is closer in, if that makes any sense. Almost as if the first fret is where I'd normally expect the second fret to be, due to the bridge being at the body's end shifting the whole thing down.

Tuners are VERY responsive. I asked for it to be tuned Drop C, it arrived slightly sharp, which was easily fixed.

However, the factory strings are a standard 9s set though (I think), and I play with Ernie Ball Slinky Top Heavy Bottoms. Definitely going to have to switch sets before I feel fully comfortable with it. Little too loose.

Bridge? The slant that Kiesel added to the headless bridge is great. Feels good for muting, no edge digging into palm, etc.

This is also my first "no inlay" guitar, and so far what I've found is I have no trouble playing on the wound strings, but I found myself searching a bit on the high strings. I'll adjust though, it wasn't too jarring.

Pickups? I'm not sure. I need to play with my amp settings a little bit, they were already garbage, and get those strings swapped. I'm horrible with tone so the best I can offer is they sound pretty good to me, but I don't have the right tone vocabulary to compare to my M22SD/M22N set on the SCB6.

Let's talk finish: We've got a custom color here, Candy Tangerine Orange (Or actually, Lambo Pearl Orange). This color was inspired both by my car (Mitsubishi Rotor Glow) and the various Parkers that pop up here with Candy Tangerine and black hardware. In person, under direct light, the guitar is a fantastic orange with a lot of sparkle/metallic to it. Off angle to light, it looks quite red though. Overall I am happy, though it is a bit more red than I expected.

And yes, btw. I know the strap was wrong in all these photos. I switched it around before playing. Was having a dumb moment when I opened everything. 

Youngest posing with the Vader in front of the Mitsubishi!


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

Let's try to get some sunlight. It's a bit overcast today:


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh, I forgot! I meant to repost my order form. Here's the options and what I paid, etc.


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## JSanta (Apr 14, 2015)

YES! Looks fantastic. Seeing all of these NGDs is making my 40+ days feel a long ways off. Came out perfect, congrats!


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## demorior (Apr 14, 2015)

Happy NGD!

I like the vaders in solid colors like this rather than transparent cause of the arm cut.
Looks gorgeous!


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## raisingfear101 (Apr 14, 2015)

Guitar looks awesome man. I'm loving all the up close pics too! I can't wait for mine to come.


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

raisingfear101 said:


> Guitar looks awesome man. I'm loving all the up close pics too! I can't wait for mine to come.



I really wanted to get people some up close views of the new Hipshot hardware, and how that little "cut out" for the 25.5" scale looked.


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## Chokey Chicken (Apr 14, 2015)

This is the one I was waiting for. That color, in my opinion, puts the Kiesel Racing Orange to shame. So nice. One thing I forgot to mention in my thread, and was reminded of after seeing the close shots of the bridge, is that the radius is super flat. That was the one thing I was worried about going into this guitar, but it's really quite comfy. The blank fretboard will come naturally to you rather quickly. It was less than a week after I got my first blank fretboard that I learned to make due.

Glad to finally see pictures of this one! I think this is the first 25.5 inch scale one I've seen in the wild. (unless I'm just super unobservant.) HNGD!


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

Three new insights to add:

One issue I was having with my tone was the fact that I'm stupid and the tone knob was turned down. I never even checked.... To the max fixed most of what I was hearing.

Secondly, it shound be noted that the ends of the strings at the end cap are exposed and sharp. I didn't cut myself or anything, but reviewing pictures I decide to gently run my finger past, you definitely don't want to jerk your hand past the end cap.






Thirdly, I was having some trouble with how the Vader hung. It felt weirdly low while standing, and my strap was slipping off my shoulder sitting. Adjustments to strap length didn't seem to be helping really, the length felt right. So I decided to try using the BOTTOM strap bottom. Boom. Instantly more comfortable for me, both standing and sitting.


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## Chokey Chicken (Apr 14, 2015)

Huh... My strap was rubbing against my right forearm when I was sitting and it was getting irritated over time. Decided to try the bottom strap button and not only does it obviously solve that problem, it was indeed super comfy. (definitely leaving it there.) Weird. I thought it'd make it top heavy and want to flip over or something.

Also, yes, those string ends are sharp. I already harassed the wife with it, who has a bitter hatred for sharp string ends.


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

Kinda makes sense, though. A normal full body guitar would have the strap button centered. So the Vader makes you chose between raising it up, which lowers the guitar compared to normal (And then makes the strap loose when you sit), or going lower, which will raise the body up a bit while standing but is snug while sitting.

Hmm.


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## feraledge (Apr 14, 2015)

I think you're hitting on my curiosity about how the guitar sits with the strap location. Would you mind taking a pic with the strap in both locations to show how it sits?


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## Chokey Chicken (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you'd definitely prefer the strap on the lower button. On the upper button, mixed with the bridge being so far back, causes it to feel a little weird. It feels way more natural and like a standard guitar when using the bottom button.


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## ferret (Apr 14, 2015)

I'll see about strap pictures tomorrow. I think the bottom button makes more sense the more I think about it though. I have this idea in my head about points of balance and angles and stuff and how the bridge has shifted like Chokey mentions, but I think it's actually "forward" in comparison to a full body electric, because it didn't move back, there's just less back... and yeah, so on.

.... also I wrote this an hour ago and forgot to push "Post"


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## xzacx (Apr 14, 2015)

Man, these look so much better in solid colors. The "split" forearm contour on the figured tops is such a deal breaker. This is so much nicer!


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## Daf57 (Apr 15, 2015)

Very cool! Congrats, man!


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## The Shred (Apr 15, 2015)

HNGD! That orange looks brilliant! Build quality fantastic as well!


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## Haun (Apr 15, 2015)

Wow. These are starting to look better and better to me. Especially the solid colors. And the fact that they're US made AND cheaper than a Boden OS is making me quite the jumpy little boy...

Would you mind posting a picture of how it hangs in the strap, comparing the top and bottom strap buttons?


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## MrHelloGuitar (Apr 15, 2015)

The GAS is killing me omg. This colour is perfect, man. HNGD!


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## pkgitar (Apr 15, 2015)

Man, that is nice! Congrats!


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## HighGain510 (Apr 15, 2015)

DAMN! That finish came out perfect dude, definitely a great choice on the Option 50 color for this one!  They should make that a standard color!  Mine arrived last night and I couldn't stop playing it, totally loving it!  Yours looks great with the gloss finish too, I think that was also a good call.


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## ferret (Apr 15, 2015)

HighGain510 said:


> DAMN! That finish came out perfect dude, definitely a great choice on the Option 50 color for this one!  They should make that a standard color!  Mine arrived last night and I couldn't stop playing it, totally loving it!  Yours looks great with the gloss finish too, I think that was also a good call.



Hahah man, you own(ed) one of the Parkers that inspired this build. I've been wanting to do this for a couple years.


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## pott (Apr 15, 2015)

How much does it weigh? I'm wondering if the non-chambering makes this almost the same weight as a 'normal' guitar (bridge + headpiece are quite heavy...) or if there's still a benefit.


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## HighGain510 (Apr 15, 2015)

ferret said:


> Hahah man, you own(ed) one of the Parkers that inspired this build. I've been wanting to do this for a couple years.



I figured that was the one you were referencing, I still wish I could bring that back but GAS has been a bitch and since I was limited on three more guitar orders before I'm cut off (looking at starting the family this spring/summer   ) it was Vader 6, Bulb 6 and Strandberg 6, couldn't bring back any of the previously lost.  I miss that one too, the color was awesome (looks very much like yours does in the pics!) and one of the reasons I snagged it in the first place!


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## HumanFuseBen (Apr 15, 2015)

wow!!! that finish is stellar... congrats!


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## haymez (Apr 15, 2015)

Kick. Ass.


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## Garnoch (Apr 15, 2015)

Awesome, ferret! Congrats on a gorgeous guitar, man!


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## ferret (Apr 15, 2015)

pott said:


> How much does it weigh? I'm wondering if the non-chambering makes this almost the same weight as a 'normal' guitar (bridge + headpiece are quite heavy...) or if there's still a benefit.



Ok, so. This is highly "accurate" bathroom scale "with" and "without" method... I came up with 6.4lb. Compared to my walnut SCB6 which is around 8.4lb.


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## mr coffee (Apr 15, 2015)

Hmmm....shiiiiizzzzzzzz. I'm so torn. Even without the extra $150 for chambering, that would probably be very reasonable in walnut. Bathroom scale says my Damien is 8.8, so I don't guess I'd collapse under the weight of a walnut DC but...man, all these Vaders around here! I'd like to see pics or video with the guitar on a strap, just to get a better visual of how it hangs.

-m


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## beerandbeards (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm jealous to see this flowing in. Seems like each one has truly been a happy new guitar day! Congrats!


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## ferret (Apr 15, 2015)

So, I went by my tech buddy today to make sure I didn't miss any issues, get my normal string gauges on, etc. No issues found. Moving up from the factory 46 gauge to a 52 gauge definitely improved the "looseness" of Drop C, and bumped the tone up another notch towards awesome. Feels good now.

So this part might interest everyone here, since SSO down tunes so much. He felt the 52 gauge fit fine in the slot for the neck end piece, but his opinion was (though we did not try) that a 54 gauge would be the maximum that would fit. Keep in mind this is the 6 string, not a 7.

I'll try to get those strap photos later today.


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## mr coffee (Apr 15, 2015)

Awesome - good to know about the string gauges as well. I run GHS TNT sets, 10-52 with a 60 and an 80, I think those gauges are significantly heavier across the middle than what Carvin/Kiesel uses. On a traditional nut, I'd have no qualms about filing slots, but the headless setup is a bit of a different beast.

-m


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## bloc (Apr 16, 2015)

Best choice of solid colour I've seen on a Vader so far. Wasn't really digging the other ones I've seen on here.


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## ferret (Apr 16, 2015)

Ok, so, promised attempts to show strap positioning. Note that I do tend to keep my strap a bit short, and my guitar isn't down at my crotch. Your mileage may vary. Wife took photos.

Standing, bottom button, no arm. Note the guitar is not entirely pressed against me, it's pretty vertical though:






From side:





With my arm against it, pressed back against me:










Standing, top button, no arm. Note in this scenario, the guitar does press against the body:















Sitting down, using top button, this is how loose my strap becomes. Basically zero support from the strap like this:





Sitting down, using bottom button, much more snug:





And just for kicks:







p.s. STILL RAINING.


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## mr coffee (Apr 16, 2015)

Awesome, thanks! It seems like using the top button and standing, the guitar might feel flappy as the pivot point is so high up on the body.

-m


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## ferret (Apr 16, 2015)

That is my impression concerning the top button. It just feels off to me, as if its just barely hanging on. Doesn't feel "solid."


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## mr coffee (Apr 16, 2015)

Mmmmm...man, I like the Vaders y'all have gotten this week, I like them a lot, but I think they're a bit of a departure that I'm not keen on as a primary axe. Maybe down the road. For now, I think I'm going to go for that walnut DC800. I really appreciate all the feedback on the NGDs!

-m


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## feraledge (Apr 16, 2015)

Thanks for that. In the old days of last year I'd give you rep. 
So it really looks like that lower button compensates well for the smaller body pushing it forward into a "standard" hanging position. 
Excellent.


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## HighGain510 (Apr 17, 2015)

I'll say it again, that custom finish looks great and should become a stock option!


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## ferret (May 27, 2015)

A month or so later...

... #1 guitar. The poor SCB6 is getting a lot more case time than I anticipated.


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## Chokey Chicken (May 27, 2015)

I'm in the same boat. Been rocking mine pretty much exclusively. If anyone is on the fence, I highly recommend just making the plunge. Even if it's bare bones, you won't regret it.


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## HighGain510 (May 28, 2015)

ferret said:


> A month or so later...
> 
> ... #1 guitar. The poor SCB6 is getting a lot more case time than I anticipated.



I actually look forward to the long weekends away from the house spent with family.... because it means I take my Vader up with me and while they hang out watching tv I can noodle away on my Vader!


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## Eclipse (May 28, 2015)

Very nice! HNGD!


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## geekusa (Jun 2, 2015)

That finish looks amazing.


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