# Norway has found the most promising metal-guitarist in the world.



## straymond (Mar 25, 2014)

Some of you may have heard of commander in chief.


now.

she's been on a couple of norwegian shows and is now, and I quote,
proclaimed as "one of the most promising metalguitarist/shredders in the world".
I'm not out to bash her or anyone else, but... wow. 
she shows off her skills at 6.00.

Commander in chief - TV 2 Play


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 25, 2014)

I have heard of her (found her on FB and follower her) but havent really had the chance to check her music out.


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## stevexc (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeahhhh.


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## InfinityCollision (Mar 25, 2014)




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## decypher (Mar 25, 2014)

straymond said:


> Some of you may have heard of commander in chief.
> 
> 
> now.
> ...



How pretty, her strings match the couch cushions.


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## wannabguitarist (Mar 25, 2014)




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## Svava (Mar 25, 2014)

straymond said:


> proclaimed as "one of the most color coordinated metalguitarist/shredders in the world".



Fixed.

Still not as good as Tosin


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## stevexc (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm gonna be completely honest, and totally expect people to disagree vehemently. Obviously 100% my opinion.

This chick knows how to play a guitar. She knows how to tap, she knows how to play a lot of notes really quickly, she probably knows how to sweep, I couldn't get through enough of her music to find out.

But to call her the "most promising metal guitarist in the world" is flat-out offensive. This reeks of sexism to me - "yeah, there's guys out there who play way better, but she's a chick! and pretty!" If you're going to call her "the most promising metal guitarist in the world" (and note I'm not directing this at OP whatsoever but rather the whole marketing scheme around her) then I am going to compare her to every other metal guitarist in the world. She falls short by a lot. 

On top of that, her music is awful.


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 25, 2014)

That was the most uninspired shred I've ever heard in my life. She can play no doubt about that but, it sounds like GC on a Saturday afternoon.


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## Dayviewer (Mar 25, 2014)

Ye she can play, but yeah, meh.


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## Randy (Mar 25, 2014)

Cute.


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## will_shred (Mar 25, 2014)

Maybe i'm missing something but to those saying "she can play" are you kidding? I mean she's not the worst I've heard, but she's easily one of them. I don't consider myself that good of a player, but i'm easily better than her.

Like, I think Joshua hit the nail on the head saying "sounds like Saturday at GC", that's a pretty low bar to set.


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## Rizzo (Mar 25, 2014)

<- the face i kept until a minute and something, then i stopped the video.

Uh yeah a nice girl shredding, yeah, viral, yeah, uninspired, lame, uh, generic, boring, yeah, bye folks.

Not saying she's bad but it surely didn't change my life to say the least


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## L1ght (Mar 25, 2014)

stevexc said:


> If you're going to call her "the most promising metal guitarist in the world" (and note I'm not directing this at OP whatsoever but rather the whole marketing scheme around her) then I am going to compare her to every other metal guitarist in the world. She falls short by a lot.



Idk, I thought this blurb right here pretty much summed everything up accurately.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 25, 2014)

She doesn't seem like anything special to me... 

She can play, but I think Orianthi is more interesting if we must have the "girls that play guitar" convo again and I even find her boring... 

She can't hold her own against a Loomis, Jarzombek, Broderick, etc...


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## stevexc (Mar 25, 2014)

will_shred said:


> Maybe i'm missing something but to those saying "she can play" are you kidding? I mean she's not the worst I've heard, but she's easily one of them. I don't consider myself that good of a player, but i'm easily better than her.
> 
> Like, I think Joshua hit the nail on the head saying "sounds like Saturday at GC", that's a pretty low bar to set.



If I'm one of those you meant, what I was getting at was literally that she can play a guitar. As in, is physically capable. Notice that I didn't see she can play _well_ .


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 25, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> She doesn't seem like anything special to me...
> 
> She can play, but I think Orianthi is more interesting if we must have the "girls that play guitar" convo again and I even find her boring...
> 
> She can't hold her own against a Loomis, Jarzombek, Broderick, etc...



This.


I just watched some videos.

My first thought was "Really.."

Fack, I'm better then her 



The guitar double standard has to stop


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 25, 2014)

All double standards with respect to raw ability short of things like *maybe* strength in the most general of cases need to stop.

Like... If you see a body builder put 415lbs on the bar and rep that shit 4x you might be like, "Yea, looks about right," depending on how big he is... If a 90lb girl comes behind him and does the same, THEN you can be amazed.

But when girls are good at math or just play an instrument like guitar and ppl act like any tiny bit of proficiency she gains is the biggest stride ever taken, it just seems silly to me and realistically only serves to keep them at a mediocre level thus perpetuating the whole, "ZOMG A GIRL HAS A GUITAR phenomenon".


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## crg123 (Mar 25, 2014)

Also: Lmao that first video does sound like guitar center


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## Svava (Mar 25, 2014)

cwhitey2 said:


> The guitar double standard has to stop



In 50 years freshman history courses will cover the Men's Rights movement which was started on an online music forum -,-


#equality


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 25, 2014)




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## FruitCakeRonin (Mar 25, 2014)

Maybe we're missing something, perhaps she has only been playing for 2 months


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 25, 2014)

If knowing some shred techniques are the only criteria for a promising player...


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## Asrial (Mar 25, 2014)

She wasn't particularly fast, the musicality was 'off', her technique was good but it was sooo incoherent. Also, just me or is the tone not that great either? 

Power to her for making music she likes, but I think it's an overstatement to call her the most promising metal-guitarist in the world.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Mar 25, 2014)

No one would care about her if she didn't lack the Y chromosome.


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## anunnaki (Mar 25, 2014)

I agree with most of the people here, her "shredding" wasn't particularly impressive and the song of hers posted here was pretty boring.
I think she got snatched up by a label who just want to push the image of a female shredder to make some money off guys who think girls playing guitar are soo hot and maybe some feminist metalheads or something..


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## ghost_of_karelia (Mar 25, 2014)

ok


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 25, 2014)

Is this a joke? She plays like Alexi Laiho - the drunk, later years Alexi, not young Alexi when he still gave a shit.


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## Promit (Mar 25, 2014)

stevexc said:


> I'm gonna be completely honest, and totally expect people to disagree vehemently. Obviously 100% my opinion.
> 
> This chick knows how to play a guitar. She knows how to tap, she knows how to play a lot of notes really quickly, she probably knows how to sweep, I couldn't get through enough of her music to find out.
> 
> ...


I agree with every word of this. Actually I found the TV bit linked in the OP to be quite unpleasant.


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## narad (Mar 25, 2014)

She's on a morning news show. You know what amazes random mums watching some of the most non-metal programming around? Wow! Playing guitar with 2 hands! Wow - so fast! I don't know what you'd really expect.

Sure, she's doesn't need to be mentioned in the best/most promising metal guitarist category, but there's something off-putting about a bunch of guys that probably just sit around and play guitar in their bedroom (like me!) picking on her, claiming to better, etc. instead of just being happy about someone getting a modicum of media attention, following their dream. "No! You cannot be successful! My sweeps are cleaner!"

Yes, I'm sure a part of the attention is that she's nice to look at (for a guitar player). But similarly, do you think Vai would be famous if he was a 300 lb dude with acne and a neckbeard? Yea, they would have loved to have nabbed him for "Crossroads" like that.


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## rastachild (Mar 25, 2014)

who dubbed her 'the most promising metal guitarist in the world'? her label? that norwegian version of good morning america? i doubt she is going around calling herself that, so it's probably just marketing, in which case it should just be ignored.


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## drmosh (Mar 25, 2014)

*UGH*


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## Vhyle (Mar 25, 2014)

wat

Jarle H. Olsen still wins for Norway. By light years, compared to this chick.

sry not sry


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## TheHandOfStone (Mar 25, 2014)

I was curious to hear her, but then read this thread and decided that pausing John Coltrane was not worth it.


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## Splinterhead (Mar 25, 2014)

...no mention about the snare drum yet?
(did she borrow it from Lars?)

If you close your eyes is she really the most promising metal guitarist in Norway?...


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## Jarmake (Mar 26, 2014)

"In the name of SCIENCE *SQUEAAAAAL!*" and "didley didley doo tapping". She's certainly the new hope of guitarism. Oh boy. All hope is gone. 

I'll have to give her credit though, that song did sound like getting a lobotomy with an icepick.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

This isn't Sarah Longfield.* 




*If we're going with female guitarists.

Joking aside, I remember listening to her awhile back because I heard nothing but praise about her. As people said, her stuff sounds very bland. I mean _very_ bland.


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## InfinityCollision (Mar 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Joking aside, I remember listening to her awhile back because I heard nothing but praise about her. As people said, her stuff sounds very bland. I mean _very_ bland.



Wait, is this bit about Sarah Longfield or this CInC chick?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

InfinityCollision said:


> Wait, is this bit about Sarah Longfield or this CInC chick?


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## Promit (Mar 26, 2014)

For that matter, Orianthi got suddenly worse at guitar during that brief flirt with mainstream visibility. I think labels play up the female angle for cheap easy revenue and don't really care about the rest.


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## Convictional (Mar 26, 2014)

I watched the entire evolution video and at about 3 minutes or so when she hit the breakdown I was expecting some ridiculous Petrucci-esque solo.

I was sorely disappointed


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## coreysMonster (Mar 26, 2014)

> People doesn't know, but Psychology and Psychiatry are one of the worst science. In past, they have so much power on people. They were like the law somehow. And they did horrible things. Even today. People with mental problems need a new science for them. And above all, LOVE. That is the best medicine, not a doctor making life a living hell.&#65279;


I don't know why I still read Youtube comments. I physically feel my IQ drop every time I do.

On topic: There's a new *insert superlative here* guitarist every couple of months. It's a marketing shtick, and an antiquated and annoying one, but nothing more.


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## Dan (Mar 26, 2014)

Willing to bet good money she has a daisy rock endorsement as well as that ibanez.


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## The Hiryuu (Mar 26, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> If knowing some shred techniques are the only criteria for a promising player...




I think still playing the guitar is among the criteria too, which would put her out, as far as I understand.


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## Maniacal (Mar 26, 2014)

What a load of shit. Is this what guitarists are impressed by these days? Go listen to some Holdsworth


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

so if the Commander In Chief is the most promising metal guitarist of today, what does that make out of this person ?



she's just as technically proficient, but she's also a multi-instrumentalist, her music doesn't sound like something that was out of style 25+ years ago, and she shows a much more varied background in music. i think Sarah Longfield is a much more promising metal guitarist than the Commander In Chief, and for many reasons i don't think i need to mention.

but my point is that just receiving press coverage shouldn't be enough to make someone the 'most promising metal guitarist', especially is said guitarist simply looks good and dresses flashy. i know for a fact that many of you guys on that very same forum are much better guitarists than her, and many of you are also younger than her, which technically should make you even more promising.

ah well.


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## InfinityCollision (Mar 26, 2014)

Sarah is easily more proficient than this chick, but I've yet to be impressed by her songwriting in any piece I've heard from her.


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

i somewhat agree, i just quickly listened to a couple of her originals, and it all sounds like djent-bandwagon stuff. but you gotta give it to her that she's at least following our times and yes, to a certain degree, her musical background _is_ more varied. at least she tries to have it so. i think that makes musicians more innovative, hence why i think she's more promising than the Commander in Chief.


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## HumanFuseBen (Mar 26, 2014)

if she was an average looking dude playing like that&#8230; nobody would care. All i'm saying.


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## InfinityCollision (Mar 26, 2014)

chassless said:


> i somewhat agree, i just quickly listened to a couple of her originals, and it all sounds like djent-bandwagon stuff. but you gotta give it to her that she's at least following our times and yes, to a certain degree, her musical background _is_ more varied. at least she tries to have it so. i think that makes musicians more innovative, hence why i think she's more promising than the Commander in Chief.



Her genre of choice has nothing to do with what I said. I'll listen to just about anything if it's done well. Put another way, her writing lacks substance.


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## -42- (Mar 26, 2014)

The Video in OP said:


> wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheedly wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



Transcription of her guitar parts in case anyone couldn't watch the video.


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

InfinityCollision said:


> Her genre of choice has nothing to do with what I said. I'll listen to just about anything if it's done well. Put another way, her writing lacks substance.



makes sense. as long as it's good 



Maniacal said:


> What a load of shit. Is this what guitarists are impressed by these days? Go listen to some Holdsworth



i admire your straightforwardness


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

Maniacal said:


> What a load of shit. Is this what guitarists are impressed by these days?



Given all the comments I'm reading here...

Nope.


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## Maniacal (Mar 26, 2014)

Women should be offended by this. Clearly she is average at best, but due to being a woman she gets TV coverage. Would this be the same with a mathematician, scientist, singer, pianist? No. I don't see why this should be different, bring on the hate.


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## ncfiala (Mar 26, 2014)

That was the lamest "shred" I've ever heard.


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## RagtimeDandy (Mar 26, 2014)

Another on-par metal guitarist that knows all the show-off techniques. About as promising as the 1000+ others just like her on Youtube and elsewhere...


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## TylerRay (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah.... That reminded of being back in highschool when some kid would be like "hey can I see your guitar for a sec!?!?!" and the he would proceed to regurgitate all of the solo/tappy licks he could muster. Definitely not the most promising metal guitarist in the world. Good for her for doing what she loves and bringing a female presence to the shred world, but the hype is undeserved.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

I kind of like her, unfortunately she is terrible in that little interview video. Her actual songs aren't bad, but apparently she cannot improvise at all. The playing on that show was *way *worse than her other stuff. She's a decent singer and player on her recordings.

I also like that she doesn't play the normal "metal chick" role with a corset, her tits hanging out, and way too much makeup on in every video.

I'd say she off to a pretty good start:



How many of you guys that are "better than her" play AND sing this well live as well as having no 2nd guitar or keyboard player to back you up?


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## GiveUpGuitar (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm going to go ahead and use the most popular response thus far in this thread:


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 26, 2014)

^^ This conversation literally leads nowhere.

It's been had multiple times. Commander in Chief isn't promising at all, she in fact LACKS what makes a person promising.


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## Fat-Elf (Mar 26, 2014)

She's pretty good but she's not Jaqcueline level yet.

youtube.com/watch?v=NpSR8MWHs_k


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## narad (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> How many of you guys that are "better than her" play AND sing this well live as well as having no 2nd guitar or keyboard player to back you up?



Or simply make music in general. I don't even care if it sucks, but at least she's fully invested in trying to pursue a music career (and taking lessons - pretty cool voice lesson on her channel). And I don't need to tell anyone that the music business is not about music - she's at least smart enough to try and find a "persona" which is package-able/marketable.

When she's going around self-proclaiming herself as the most promising metal-guitarist in the world, then bring the hate. Otherwise it sort of reads like sour grapes.


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## Blasphemer (Mar 26, 2014)

I need to move to Norway.


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## Andromalia (Mar 26, 2014)

Might have been more credible if she didn't try to sing.


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

Andromalia said:


> Might have been more credible if she didn't try to sing.



au contraire, really, i actually found her singing was a big redeeming point. 



troyguitar said:


> I also like that she doesn't play the normal "metal chick" role with a corset, her tits hanging out, and way too much makeup on in every video.



except that's the thing, i see her as just another "metal chick" sadly, you can't say her whole image isn't sexy. sure she isn't wearing heels, but those black leggings, that colorful attire based on a male uniform (which does emphasize her breasts), the bullet belt, they're not as shockingly sexy as say the current girl from Sirenia, but it's all sexy - and in a metal kind of way. she revamped an old image in a more subtle way.


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## stevexc (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> How many of you guys that are "better than her" play AND sing this well live as well as having no 2nd guitar or keyboard player to back you up?





narad said:


> Or simply make music in general. I don't even care if it sucks, but at least she's fully invested in trying to pursue a music career (and taking lessons - pretty cool voice lesson on her channel). And I don't need to tell anyone that the music business is not about music - she's at least smart enough to try and find a "persona" which is package-able/marketable.
> 
> When she's going around self-proclaiming herself as the most promising metal-guitarist in the world, then bring the hate. Otherwise it sort of reads like sour grapes.



She's not above criticism, and I'm not above freely giving my opinion and criticism. Based off of the 3 videos I've seen - that interview, the song I posted on the first page, and that live video - I have nothing good to say about her singing or songwriting ability, and no praise for her guitar-playing ability.

However, I do agree with what you guys are getting at - it's not up to her what people call her, just what she actually uses to market herself.

So let's bring on the hate: some choice quotes from the bio page on her website! Now I'm not taking a dig at you, just using your statement as a jumping off point - I totally see where you're coming from.



> JUNE 2013: Played Scandinavia`s biggest cultural festival, Bergen International Festival/Festspillene, where she shared the stage with 5 other guitarists. The day after the show, she was featured on a newspaper front page and called a "Guitar Goddess".





> SEPTEMBER: Featured as "1 of 10 Modern Guitar Gods" in Europe's leading Metal Magazine, Metal Hammer, together with Alexi Laiho and Tosin Abasi. They said this about her: "She is a seven-string-wielding Norwegian uber-shredder who has made it her mission in life to prove that shredding at blistering speeds is not just a male phenomenon. Her recent cover of Black Sabbath classic Paranoid won her legions of fans around the world with its fretboard-burning intensity and operatic vocals.Last year she secured an artist endorsement with Ibanez and was even given a prototype Falchion 7, becoming the first player in the world to own one. Jelous? Damn right."





> AUGUST: World's leading Metal Magazine, Revolver Magazine, featured her with a full page as their Hottest Chick in Hard Rock.





> FEBRUARY: Europe's leading guitar magazine, Total Guitar Magazine, in February 2012 said "Make way for the Norwegian Queen of Shred. It's a sad fact that when you think of shred guitarists, the majority of them will be men. Enter The Commander-In-Chief, a seven-string-wielding uber shredding female who's ready to melt faces and shatter stereotypes. This Norwegian Metal maiden has her eyes set to command and conquer the masses."





> JANUARY: Metal Hammer UK said this: "Bow down Mortals, meet the new Queen of Shred! This one-woman Metal hurricane is smashing her way thru the underground with her mix of great songwriting, face-ripping shredding and a refusal to listen to the few cynical wallies out there who judge her from image and not talent".



Source

This chick is very clearly getting a HUGE amount of popularity from the fact that she's a pretty young woman playing metal guitar (see the prestigious award she won from Revolver). Is she terrible? Well, I won't debate her songwriting ability, but as far as her technical ability she is at -exactly the level I would expect the average touring metal guitarist to be at -. Precisely at the level of "mediocre". But she's getting accolade after accolade for mediocrity simply because she is a woman doing what is stereotypically a man's job. That is a huge double standard, and that double standard is what I don't like.

Is the fact that a female metal guitarist is getting so much attention a bad thing? No. Is she probably going to inspire a handful of young women to pick up guitar? Probably, which is a good thing. Should she be held to the same standard as any of the male guitarists out there? Most definitely yes.

If she wants to join the boy's club, she gets to play by the same rules. Gender doesn't matter on tape, so I'm not going to give her any extra points for it.

That's just my two cents.


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## SpaceDock (Mar 26, 2014)

looks like she should be in Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.....


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## stevexc (Mar 26, 2014)

chassless said:


> au contraire, really, i actually found her singing was a big redeeming point.



Really? I thought it sounded super out of place and lifeless - like she was told "YOU HAVE TO SING" and unwillingly pulled out the only singing style she could. But then again, I also can't stand Epica, so maybe it's just the opera style of vocals doesn't work for me?


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

well, she has only one singing style, but she was surprisingly good at it  all in all though it feels like her whole playing style is the only style she can play, too. like she's stuck in a past or something.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

stevexc said:


> She's not above criticism, and I'm not above freely giving my opinion and criticism. Based off of the 3 videos I've seen - that interview, the song I posted on the first page, and that live video - I have nothing good to say about her singing or songwriting ability, and no praise for her guitar-playing ability.



Obviously the accolades are retarded. She is just a beginner right now. She has one 4-song EP out and a couple of singles, that's it. She does show promise though, I look forward to see what she puts out over her career if she continues to work at it.

There are very few people who can "shred" on both guitar and vocals, especially in today's metal landscape where singing is almost universally looked down upon. If/when she gets over trying to show off and realizes that she actually has something to say, she could have a damn good band.

Who else sings and plays metal these days besides Kai Hansen?


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> in today's metal landscape where singing is almost universally looked down upon.



 ?


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## Demiurge (Mar 26, 2014)

An artist can't really be blamed for obvious over-the-top amounts of praise thrown at them. And really, a metal band (niche) with female vocals (niche) and built around guitar virtuosity (niche)- what is the word "promising" supposed to mean?

Listening to a couple songs, it's really not bad. Nothing worth jumping out of my seat about, but hardly much is nowadays


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## RustInPeace (Mar 26, 2014)

She definitely isnt the best singer.. or guitar player....


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

chassless said:


> ?



... have you read this forum?

90+% of all worshiped modern metal is growly.

She doesn't growl, therefore modern metal fans don't like her vocals.


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## chassless (Mar 26, 2014)

maybe 90% of the metal liked on this forum features _some kind of harsh vocals_, but your claim that singing is looked down upon is farfetched honestly


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## 7stg (Mar 26, 2014)

That is the worst video of her that I have seen. I'm not sure where "most promising metal-guitarist in the world" came from, coming in that sets very high expectations which are not met resulting in disappointment. She is alright though, it's just a different genre than the the Djent/Nu/Core styles that are popular with the kids these days.


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 26, 2014)

SpaceDock said:


> looks like she should be in Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.....


This post is rep worthy


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Who else sings and plays metal these days besides Kai Hansen?





troyguitar said:


> She doesn't growl, therefore modern metal fans don't like her vocals.



For the love of god PLEASE tell me you're trolling.



chassless said:


> maybe 90% of the metal liked on this forum features _some kind of harsh vocals_, but your claim that singing is looked down upon is farfetched honestly



Exactly.


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## will_shred (Mar 26, 2014)

chassless said:


> so if the Commander In Chief is the most promising metal guitarist of today, what does that make out of this person ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Forget about Sarah being a girl, and she's still so ....ing impressive. She's honestly one of my favorite guitar players today.


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## will_shred (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> ... have you read this forum?
> 
> 90+% of all worshiped modern metal is growly.
> 
> She doesn't growl, therefore modern metal fans don't like her vocals.



The Sword. 





Is my retort.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For the love of god PLEASE tell me you're trolling.



Kai's the only guy I know of who does both very well. I asked the question out of genuine curiosity because I have tried to do both and never been able to do it. My playing and singing are not very good when doing one at a time - trying to do both makes both terrible.

Even Kai had a hard time doing it at the beginning of his career, that's why Helloween hired Michael Kiske to take over lead vocals and Gamma Ray started off with Scheepers singing lead, not Hansen.


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## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

God that was awful.



troyguitar said:


> ... have you read this forum?
> 
> 90+% of all worshiped modern metal is growly.
> 
> She doesn't growl, therefore modern metal fans don't like her vocals.



Oh dear Flying Spaghetti monster, please spite this mans computer from existence.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Oh dear Flying Spaghetti monster, please spite this mans computer from existence.



Read any thread on here about Dream Theater or Nevermore, half of it is people bashing the awesome singers... those dudes blow away every whiny djent kid but no one wants to hear that gay shit.


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## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Read any thread on here about Dream Theater or Nevermore, half of it is people bashing the awesome singers... those dudes blow away every whiny djent kid but no one wants to hear that gay shit.



I love Dream Theater and Nevermore. I also love Gorguts, Death, Meshuggah, etc. 

If all the djent kids whine about clean vocals in modern metal(by the way that makes no sense, seeing as most djent is 50/50 on vocals), then why is it okay for you to incessantly whine about growled and screamed vocals?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> hose dudes blow away every whiny djent kid but no one wants to hear that gay shit.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> If all the djent kids whine about clean vocals in modern metal(by the way that makes no sense, seeing as most djent is 50/50 on vocals), then why is it okay for you to incessantly whine about growled and screamed vocals?



The "djent" clean vocals are what I was calling whiny, not the fans.

Sorry, I have to throw it in every chance I get in the hopes that someone will point out some great new trend that I've missed. I basically never listen to any new metal any more unless it's from a known non-growly band, so I could very well miss a resurgence of singing in metal and would like to know about it.

Feel free to keep bashing me rather than answering the question.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Are you saying that there are djent singers that are better than James The Cheese and Warrel Dane? Please share! All I've heard are angsty sounding kids that are closer to Linkin Park than Dream Theater.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Feel free to keep bashing me rather than answering the question.




Says the guy that calls modern vocals "whiney gay shit."


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Says the guy that calls modern vocals "whiney gay shit."



Where is the lack of clarity here? How much clearer do you need it?

How about this:

I believe that modern metal "clean" vocals are whiny at best.

I sarcastically call good clean vocals gay.

Djent's not gay. Power metal is gay. High notes are gay. Tuning above drop C is gay. Singing about anything positive is gay.


----------



## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> God that was awful.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear Flying Spaghetti monster, please spite this mans computer from existence.



Ramen


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Where is the lack of clarity here? How much clearer do you need it?
> 
> How about this:
> 
> ...



I do agree with you on the whiny clean vocals though, everything else you said was just incoherent rambling. I couldn't tell if you where serious or trolling or being sarcastic.


----------



## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> The "djent" clean vocals are what I was calling whiny, not the fans.
> 
> Sorry, I have to throw it in every chance I get in the hopes that someone will point out some great new trend that I've missed. I basically never listen to any new metal any more unless it's from a known non-growly band, so I could very well miss a resurgence of singing in metal and would like to know about it.
> 
> Feel free to keep bashing me rather than answering the question.



I'm sorry you asked a question? All I saw was you using the word gay like a 13 year old.

If your question was who are some great guitarists who also sing at the same time then:

Luc Lemay (Gorguts)
David Davidson (Revocation)
Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth)
Joe Duplantier (Gojira)
Elisha Mullins (The Burial)

But those are all "growly" bands, so I guess you wouldn't like them.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> I'm sorry you asked a question? All I saw was you using the word gay like a 13 year old.
> 
> If you question was who are some great guitarist who also sing at the same time then:
> 
> ...



Yeah, key word is sing. Those guys don't sing.

This chick sings. Kai Hansen sings. A lot of rock guys sing. I couldn't think of any other metal example besides Kai. Apparently the dude from The Sword sings and at least plays rhythm, dunno if he plays their leads or not.

You really latched on to the gay thing. Notice the specific usage: I'm assuming that other people call that stuff gay.

*I DO NOT ACTUALLY THINK THAT SINGING IS GAY.* Clear enough?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth)





troyguitar said:


> Yeah, key word is sing. Those guys don't sing.



What.

 This is the second result I find on youtube. 

EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure Joe Duplantier does a hybrid of growling and singing.


----------



## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, key word is sing. Those guys don't sing.
> 
> This chick sings. Kai Hansen sings. A lot of rock guys sing. I couldn't think of any other metal example besides Kai. Apparently the dude from The Sword sings and at least plays rhythm, dunno if he plays their leads or not.
> 
> ...



1) Screaming and growling are both forms of singing. 
2) Only 13 year old's use gay in any sarcastic form, you are 28. Grow up.
3) Go back to the car thread.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> 1) Screaming and growling are both forms of singing.
> 2) Only 13 year old's use gay in any sarcastic form, you are 28. Grow up.
> 3) Go back to the car thread.



eh, you still fail to grasp the point. It's poking fun at the kids all over the internet calling all power metal gay, making their stupid insult into a meaningless one.

Let's try this again:

The Commander In Chief aspires to both SHRED on guitar and WAIL on CLEAN vocals at the same time and shows promise toward achieving that goal.

The only other figure in metal I can think of who currently achieves that goal is Kai Hansen. Can you think of others?

The Opeth guy doesn't really shred on guitar at all and his clean singing is generally all soft with limited range. He doesn't fit. Lots of guys shred and growl, but have no vocal range. A few guys can sing pretty well, but they don't shred. Who does both?


----------



## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> eh, you still fail to grasp the point. It's poking fun at the kids all over the internet calling all power metal gay, making their stupid insult into a meaningless one.
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> ...



The point is your opinions suck. I find this woman's music terrible and her shredding is pretty bad. I can't think of anyone else who sings traditionally with a huge range and shreds at the same time. Then again Luc Lemay and David Davidson are much better anyway. Listen to them instead and get your head out of your ass.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> The point is your opinions suck.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> The point is your opinions suck.



Now I wouldn't go that far.  Still, though, I still find her unimpressive. Her playing is sub-par, her singing is okay, and her songwriting is generic and lackluster.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> The point is your opinions suck. I find this woman's music terrible and her shredding is pretty bad. I can't think of anyone else who sings traditionally with a huge range and shreds at the same time. Then again Luc Lemay and David Davidson are much better anyway. Listen to them instead and get your head out of your ass.



Yeah this clown is WAY better 





The dude has a horrible voice and another guitarist playing the harder parts while he "sings" - What is way better about that? Both songs are lackluster.

You're comparing a guy with 5 albums out to a chick with 5 songs out. Give her 10+ years to work on stuff. She's *promising *- just like the thread title states. She's not there yet but her potential is way beyond that Davidson dude.


----------



## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

Okay, I just can't even take you seriously anymore. 

Though I just want to add that the "clown" graduated from Berklee.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Okay, I just can't even take you seriously anymore.
> 
> Though I just want to add that the "clown" graduated from Berklee.



So what about his performance is way better than hers in that video?

The vocals aren't better. The guitar solo is a little better. Neither are mind blowing. For a new act giving one of its first live performances compared to a guy that's been performing for over a decade she stands up really well.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Compares David Davidson to CiC


Are you insane!?


----------



## stevexc (Mar 26, 2014)

Why are you taking this so personally, dude?

The fact of the matter is that this chick is getting presented as essentially the next big thing in metal, despite having next to no actual content to back that up - and what content there is, the majority of people here do not see the appeal in. Fine, just for you we can keep calling her promising - I'm sure Steve Vai was at her level too, once, before he started working for Zappa - but "promising" doesn't mean anything other than "well, she could be good some day".


----------



## sessionswan (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> So what about his performance is way better than hers in that video?.



The guitar playing.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

sessionswan said:


> The guitar playing.



Yeah, obviously. 

Vocals are the focus of both songs though and his are worse than hers. All I heard was a goon who listened to too much angry music as an angry teenager, then actually learned how to write and play great music, but decided to .... it all up by yelling over the top of it in homage to his teenage influences. I bet his instrumental tracks are really good.

He should hire The Commander In Chief to sing for him


----------



## SpaceDock (Mar 26, 2014)

I don't want to get into all of the bs from the last page, but I don't like her because she is subpar for pro guitarists. She is very good for a girl, seriously. It is the same shit that happens when people see a ten year old boy shred blues. It is a novelty.


----------



## Chuck (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, obviously.
> 
> Vocals are the focus of both songs though and his are worse than hers. All I heard was a goon who listened to too much angry music as an angry teenager, then actually learned how to write and play great music, but decided to .... it all up by yelling over the top of it in homage to his teenage influences. I bet his instrumental tracks are really good.
> 
> He should hire The Commander In Chief to sing for him


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, obviously.
> 
> Vocals are the focus of both songs though and his are worse than hers. All I heard was a goon who listened to too much angry music as an angry teenager, then actually learned how to write and play great music, but decided to .... it all up by yelling over the top of it in homage to his teenage influences. I bet his instrumental tracks are really good.
> 
> He should hire The Commander In Chief to sing for him


Dude, you sound like you just don't understand growling vocals and that's ok, but don't insult someone over the way they choose to express themselves or there choice of vocal style. You practically just contradicted yourself saying that fans of modern metal think that clean vocals are "gay".


----------



## stevexc (Mar 26, 2014)

SpaceDock said:


> She is very good for a girl, seriously.



To clarify my original couple posts - this is exactly what I'm getting at. The entire image that's being built around her - from the interviews, her website, etcetera - is "she's really good! ...for a girl."

SpaceDock, I'm not calling you out, because compared to most other female guitarists (both of them! /s) she is pretty good. But the marketing angle just infuriates me. The fact that she is going to be treated like a novelty, and she'll never have to actually BE good - she could stay at exactly the same skill level she's at for the rest of her life, and always be called the "most promising guitarist in the world", the "shred queen", or whatever else.

I really feel for all the women I know that are excellent guitarists - some likely better than her - that will never get any recognition, even if they can get into the scene, and if they do they'll just be another novelty.


----------



## sessionswan (Mar 26, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah, obviously.
> 
> Vocals are the focus of both songs though and his are worse than hers. All I heard was a goon who listened to too much angry music as an angry teenager, then actually learned how to write and play great music, but decided to .... it all up by yelling over the top of it in homage to his teenage influences. I bet his instrumental tracks are really good.
> 
> He should hire The Commander In Chief to sing for him



Vocals are the focus of the songs... for you.

In general, I tend to focus on the guitar and drums more than the vocals when I listen to music. After watching both Dave and CiC play, I feel he's clearly the better guitar player and I enjoy his band more. My opinion, yours clearly differs.

But, to bitch about singing style in a thread that was originally about this lady's guitar playing, and also to call Dave Davidson a clown, is just silly.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm apparently not angry enough, fine with me...

Unfortunately I went through this whole conversation in the hopes of hearing about another person who was capable of great singing and shredding, all to find out that Kai Hansen is apparently in a league of his own - with this CiC chick one of the only even aspiring to ever join him.

Yeah this chick is a beginner, but I hope she gets good because the metal world could use more than just 1 singer/shredder. Kai won't be around forever.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2014)

She's not a beginner. She's been playing for almost a decade now. 

The Commander-In-Chief > BIO



> She started to play guitar in 2005.


----------



## stevexc (Mar 27, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> I'm apparently not angry enough, fine with me...
> 
> Unfortunately I went through this whole conversation in the hopes of hearing about another person who was capable of great singing and shredding, all to find out that Kai Hansen is apparently in a league of his own - with this CiC chick one of the only even aspiring to ever join him.
> 
> Yeah this chick is a beginner, but I hope she gets good because the metal world could use more than just 1 singer/shredder. Kai won't be around forever.




Allow me to make some generalizations that, to me, seem very similar to yours:


Devin Townsend sings and plays, but he does scream now and then, so he won't count.
Mikael Akerfeldt sings and plays, but his playing is on the jazz side of technical and not the shred side, and as you mentioned sings too low for your standards.
Zakk Wylde sings and shreds, but you'll take issue with his vocal range and likely call his shredding uninspired wankery.
Brent Hinds (Mastodon) sings and shreds, but you'll disagree on both.
James Hetfield sings and plays, but you hate his voice - too growly, clearly not a skilled singer - and while he does solo, is technically a rhythm guitar player.
Arkadius (Suidakra) sings and shreds, but screams also.
Ihsahn sings and shreads, but you'll call his playing dissonant and unpleasant, and he screams as well.
Jari Maenpaa (Wintersun) sings and shreds, but he does scream as well.
Heri Joensen (Tyr) sings and shreds.
Vintersorg sings and shreds.
Dave Mustaine sings and shreds.

But in all honesty, I'm not too concerned for the future of modern metal as a whole if something happens to Kai, as sad as that would be, and leaves us with a void in your very specific idea of a quality metal singer/guitar player.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 27, 2014)

What about Devin Townsend? It's an obvious answer, but listen to the chorus of Wrongside.


----------



## edsped (Mar 27, 2014)

Man, this thread.


----------



## Necris (Mar 27, 2014)

I've heard her music in the past. I thought it was alright. Over time I think she'll improve ("promising"). The performance in the OP wasn't great; but I blow at improvising solos myself so... no big deal and lets be honest, it probably impressed most non-guitarists watching. 


If I wanted to judge her abilities I feel I would be better served focusing on the EP she put out instead; which as I already said, I thought was alright.

I think more people are getting way too hung up on the "most promising in the world" claim combined with the video on the OP while neglecting to consider that she isn't the the one pushing it.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 27, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> What about Devin Townsend? It's an obvious answer, but listen to the chorus of Wrongside.



He's definitely capable of both, fair point. I tend to forget that he can *really *sing since he screams so damn much. He's damn good, he has no need to resort to screaming.


----------



## Chuck (Mar 27, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> He's definitely capable of both, fair point. I tend to forget that he can *really *sing since he screams so damn much. He's damn good, he has no need to resort to screaming.



What in the actual .... did I just read.


----------



## asher (Mar 27, 2014)

Chuck said:


> What in the actual .... did I just read.



Opinions stated as facts.


----------



## Svava (Mar 27, 2014)

chassless said:


> maybe 90% of the metal liked on this forum features _some kind of harsh vocals_, but your claim that singing is looked down upon is farfetched honestly



^ That's true.

Dream Theater, Nightwish, now Intervals... a lot of the "symphonic metal" scene i.e. Kamelot are all extremely popular and feature clean vocals.

Trivium.. kind of.


It certainly seems less popular than growling though I grant you that...


----------



## stevexc (Mar 27, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> he has no need to resort to screaming.



...aside from the fact that he's proficient at screaming and it suits the songs? 

Man, there's been screaming in metal for decades - nobody's forcing you to like it, but there's no reason to be so combative about it, especially to the point where this thread's been not only derailed, but thoroughly rolled miles from the tracks. It's not exactly a new trend nor is it going anywhere.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 27, 2014)

Svava said:


> ^ That's true.
> 
> Dream Theater, Nightwish, now Intervals... a lot of the "symphonic metal" scene i.e. Kamelot are all extremely popular and feature clean vocals.
> 
> ...


Go over to Europe and see how quickly that changes.....


----------



## Necris (Mar 27, 2014)

I only take issue with Troys characterization of screaming as being something that is a last resort rather than something that a vocalist would make a conscious decision to use. 
It's not as if Devin or any other vocalist who can perform both styles adequately is using screams solely as a crutch for when their "clean" singing abilities fail them. 

As much of a shock as it may be to someone who doesn't find listening to it enjoyable some people actually enjoy performing growled and screamed vocals as much as, or more than, sung ones and are skilled enough musicians to find a way to incorporate them that works to help them achieve their vision for what the music should sound like.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Mar 27, 2014)

stevexc said:


> this thread's been not only derailed, but thoroughly rolled miles from the tracks. It's not exactly a new trend nor is it going anywhere.


I'm surprised it's gone on this long.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 27, 2014)

stevexc said:


> ...aside from the fact that he's proficient at screaming and it suits the songs?
> 
> Man, there's been screaming in metal for decades - nobody's forcing you to like it, but there's no reason to be so combative about it, especially to the point where this thread's been not only derailed, but thoroughly rolled miles from the tracks. It's not exactly a new trend nor is it going anywhere.



How is it a derail to look for someone that does what the chick in the OP does?

How else can you judge her but to compare her to her peers?


----------



## Necris (Mar 27, 2014)

^ 
Mike Mills (the lead vocalist in this band) is a very skilled singer and can shred pretty well.


----------



## Herrick (Mar 27, 2014)

This thread was very entertaining. Herrick thanks you all. 

The few "Metal" songs I've seen/heard from Commander in Chief are boring. Commander is a good player but it takes a lot to stand out in the shred genre. 

Has it been established who made the bold claim of "the most promising metal guitarist in the world"? I don't really have a problem with her (or her management?) listing her praises on the website 

I like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40XQDVEAblA


----------



## kchay (Mar 27, 2014)

Definitely was a good read. I REALLLY don't think much of her, tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu0mhDDtd9A

Here you go. This is what girls SHOULD be aspiring to.
I just don't think it's particularly "equal" to give them the publicity when realistically, they're sub-par.
And it seems like it's mostly guitar that does this. 

HMMMMm.


----------



## Floppystrings (Mar 27, 2014)

troyguitar said:


> ... have you read this forum?
> 
> 90+% of all worshiped modern metal is growly.
> 
> She doesn't growl, therefore modern metal fans don't like her vocals.



You think it is only considered bad because there are no growls?

Are you saying less than 10% of people here like Tesseract?


----------



## Jarmake (Mar 27, 2014)

This thread is incredible. Keep it up guys, I'm very entertained.


----------



## coreysMonster (Mar 27, 2014)

Floppystrings said:


> You think it is only considered bad because there are no growls?
> 
> Are you saying less than 10% of people here like Tesseract?


Nobody likes Devin Townsend, either. That guy thinks he can make metal without growls, and - gasp - a female singer, as well?

_GAY NOBODY LIKES THIS EXCEPT TEH GAYS_


----------



## Maniacal (Mar 27, 2014)

_Promising female mathematician masters 6 times table and calculates area of a triangle! _


----------



## cwhitey2 (Mar 27, 2014)

Japanese Girl Shreds Guitar, Gender Stereotypes, With Face-Melting Metal Solo


----------



## sol niger 333 (Mar 27, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Yeahhhh.




If only Jakub Zyteki had tits he could slap this bitch


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Mar 27, 2014)

Oh jeez, I was just judging based on the TV show performance...that music is even worse  That's just subpar in every regard


----------



## stevexc (Mar 27, 2014)

cwhitey2 said:


> Japanese Girl Shreds Guitar, Gender Stereotypes, With Face-Melting Metal Solo



Infinitely more promising - but I can't make a fair comparison until she writes her own material with awful opera vocals like her peer


----------



## cwhitey2 (Mar 27, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Infinitely more promising - but I can't make a fair comparison until she writes her own material with awful opera vocals like her peer



That's exactly what i was thinking.


My point in posting it was that the 8 year is better at playing IMO.

The Commander does absolutely nothing special. I don't know if i'm just too critical or an asshole but shes mediocre at best.


----------



## Jarmake (Mar 27, 2014)

what the hell... I just now watched the tv performance... I know a dozen bedroom-guitarists that can play better than she can. Oh well.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 27, 2014)

The Hiryuu said:


> I think still playing the guitar is among the criteria too, which would put her out, as far as I understand.



Say that again in English, please?


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 27, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> Say that again in English, please?



She quit playing.

And now for something completely different | Play Like a Girl


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 27, 2014)

Ahh that sucks. She was still better than CiC... 

Aside from that... 

I love the "At least she's out there doing it," posts...

Then look at all the negative posts on homeboy's thread showing us his first attempt at rapping... 

I mean... At least he's out there trying, bro... 

Why are dudes always so quick to go all Prince Valiant and stick up for a chick on the internet? If this was David Shankle or any other man you guys would be just as honest as the rest of us with your opinions... 

I'm sorry Shanks... I loves to mess with you...


----------



## no_dice (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm surprised this thread is still open, since it's bordering on a bash thread.

As far as CiC goes, I don't care one way or another. Her stuff isn't very exciting to me, but it's not garbage. I'm not going to judge her on a different scale than I would any other band.


----------



## hairychris (Mar 27, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> She's not a beginner. She's been playing for almost a decade now.
> 
> The Commander-In-Chief > BIO



Wat? Are you serious?

OK, so she started playing 8 years ago. That is *not a long time* in the grand scheme of things, so yeah, I'd say that she's just started out. Unless you're a prodigy you need years under your belt.

FWIW her music doesn't float my boat but by no means does she deserve all this vitriol. I think that she needs to grow into it a more. All of this "most promising" stuff isn't helpful either.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 27, 2014)

There's no way that wasn't sarcasm... HeHasTheJazzHands is clever like that...


----------



## Deathspell Omega (Mar 27, 2014)

By the way, there IS someone out there who can shred AND sing incredibly well with a huge range. Ever heard of Ron Thal/Bumblefoot ?  Having said that, this Commander In Chief chick isn`t on the same level, not even close. She tries too hard, her music is generic at best.


----------



## liamh (Mar 27, 2014)

HumanFuseBen said:


> if she was an average looking dude playing like that nobody would care. All i'm saying.



It's the 'Jacqueline Mannering effect'.


----------



## Malkav (Mar 27, 2014)

hairychris said:


> Wat? Are you serious?
> 
> OK, so she started playing 8 years ago. That is *not a long time* in the grand scheme of things, so yeah, I'd say that she's just started out. Unless you're a prodigy you need years under your belt.
> 
> FWIW her music doesn't float my boat but by no means does she deserve all this vitriol. I think that she needs to grow into it a more. All of this "most promising" stuff isn't helpful either.



8 years is a crazy long time, guitar is very much an effort in equals results out kind of instrument, and I've seen people go from beginner to insanely good in way under the 8 year mark, I have a friend who completed his Licentiate (That's higher than a grade 8 and harder than performance) in Teaching for classical guitar in a year and a half, and it's not a case prodigal qualities, it's entirely because he worked very hard.



Deathspell Omega said:


> By the way, there IS someone out there who can shred AND sing incredibly well with a huge range. Ever heard of Ron Thal/Bumblefoot ?



Couldn't agree more, that man is a true master and a constant inspiration 



liamh said:


> It's the 'Jacqueline Mannering effect'.



So much this, I've commented on these sorts of threads before so I don't really feel like going in depth, but you can see that this one got faster before she really internalised what she was learning and has suffered in many ways because of it.


----------



## chassless (Mar 27, 2014)

^ i don't really understand that internalising part, could you explain that ?


----------



## Malkav (Mar 27, 2014)

chassless said:


> ^ i don't really understand that internalising part, could you explain that ?



It's late and I'm going to try and explain this, but just kinda as my points come to me, also I've seen other videos of her so I'll probably also be referencing them slightly, so forgive me if it's a little strangely written:

1) It sounds to me in the way she holds notes that she is not applying consistent and correct pressure, this causes the notes to decay in a fairly shit manner, it becomes really apparent when she ends a phrase or bends.

2) Her vibrato is basically just not developed, either the oscilations (speed at which you shake it) to the note are inconsistent within the context, or just straight up out of tune.

3) When she plays "fast" (which by most standards is maybe a little swifter than average) you can hear she's simply reciting a shape, when you listen to the way that guitarists who really know how to target a tonality play you'll start to realise that though you can often break down fast things into fragments they tend not to be as simple as say running the Aeolian mode from begining to end, sometimes it'll be interesting rhythmic groupings, sometimes a specific pattern like if you play a scale but constantly omit the 6th or whatever, these sorts of things just coming across being more musical and pleasing to me and most people I guess, what she does is sorta just the equivalent of going up to a piano and running your finger from A to A in a glissando to me.

4) It seems to me in her picking that she's never focused much on rhythm/dynamic, she just doesn't accent notes or anything, there's no change to the velocity (Perception of how in front or behind the note is sitting in relation to the beat) or dynamic, which just kinda makes it all sound meh to me.

5) The point about playing fast and how she tends to just play basic shapes leads me to believe her ears are most likely not very developed, which in my opinion explains the other points as well, this is something you often find in people who have sped up too soon.

These are all just things that lead me to the opinion that she hasn't internalised whatever she has learnt, and by that I mean she's never really taken to heart the basics of guitar playing, she's built a house with an appealing aesthetic, but no foundation, so it appears decent to the layman but anyone with moderate building knowledge would know it's a wobbly piece of shit.

Generally as guitarists mature if they haven't realised these things are missing they will work on them and come round, the thing I wonder about is whether or not someone in a position of receiving this kind of acclaim would notice their weak points at all, or start to over inflate their ego based on what others have said.

And because I've written a ton when thinking I wouldn't I will now use a video of her's to further my points with times, thankfully she gives it all away within the first 20 seconds so I won't have to put my ears through too much of this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY99K4EX1yA

1) 00:11 - She ends a long run with a note that chokes, and was okay enough with that to leave it in the recording, I mean to me that sounds like she ....ed up, but apparently not, this is because when she bent the note up she didn't adjust her fretting to the change in tension a big bend creates.

2) 00:01 - The notes she starts with are a good example of a vibrato that seems a little too fast in relation to overall tempo of the track, like she's just shaking it and hoping for the best. As a counter example Petrucci's vibrato is one of the best examples of not only being in tune, but in TIME.

3) 00:06 - Listen to that run, haven't you heard it like a million times before? You've probably even played it a fair amount yourself.

4) 00:06 - Actually this run serves as a good example of that lack in dynamics, it's not rhythmic, it doesn't accent well at the beginning of each note grouping, which makes it come out sounding kinda flat and dull. There's a whole host of reasons why being good with accenting is beneficial beyond this, but that'd basically be like a whole thread to discuss on it's own.

5) Can't really point out why someone's ears may need work based on a fragment of a song as an example, so I'm going to go with the subjective opinion of her guitar tone sounds like ass \/

I hope this has cleared up your enquiry without making me sound like too much of a douche 

EDIT: Another point I just thought of that the run at 00:06 also highlights is economy, she seems to lift her fingers too far away from the fretboard, this makes her movements seem exagerated, I mean what she's playing really isn't very fast but her fingers are moving a crazy amount, Rick Graham is one of the best examples of incredible economy, notes just pour out of him at a speed that leaves your jaw hanging, but it looks like he's barely moving, it's that whole one inch punch vibe, a foundation of good technique if you will, limit extraneous motions so unecessary energy is never expended.


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## BornToLooze (Mar 28, 2014)

I don't think she's that bad. The most promising metal guitarist in the world? Not sure, who knows what she could be doing 10 years from now. I think the song posted on the first page was kind of catchy, but her vocals kill it for me. It isn't that they're bad, I just don't like them. She's not good, but she isn't bad either. Either way, she's been playing for about as long as I have and she's still better than I am.

But if I had to pick the most promising metal guitar player I would probably pick someone from Japan.


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## Floppystrings (Mar 28, 2014)

In all seriousness, I think HIZAKI is the savior of shred:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvpF-aKhG54

Listen to the accents and bends, flawless. Not a single note being tasteless. Doesn't over play, has tons of melody. Great use of trem for accents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE1mAauQfjc


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## rastachild (Mar 28, 2014)

Malkav said:


> It's late and I'm going to try and explain this, but just kinda as my points come to me, also I've seen other videos of her so I'll probably also be referencing them slightly, so forgive me if it's a little strangely written:
> 
> 1) It sounds to me in the way she holds notes that she is not applying consistent and correct pressure, this causes the notes to decay in a fairly shit manner, it becomes really apparent when she ends a phrase or bends.
> 
> ...



no offense, but it's possible that all of the things you critiqued (vibrato, economy of picking, tone) are things she's made a conscious decision as a musician/guitarist/composer to be just as it is. i think we as a community (myself included at times) are so quick to armchair quarterback and criticize something that in the grand scheme of things is not supposed to be a competition or compared against anything or anyone else. we all have preferences and opinions on what sounds good and what we like in guitar playing, but can you imagine if everyone conformed to our individual internal standard of what is the 'right' way to play guitar? it would be a very boring homogenized musical world.

it would be different if she posted some thread saying 'hey critique my technique, looking for opinions', but from watching her other vids she seems quite content and confident in her approach to guitar. i just think as a musician it's condescending to nitpick and degrade another musician like the majority of people in this thread seem to be comfortable doing.


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## coreysMonster (Mar 28, 2014)

That's akin to an artist critiquing another artist's lack of anatomical understanding, and the artist saying "it's just my style". 

If it sounded good, fluid and strong, it'd be a different story, then you could make the argument that her technique works for her, despite being unorthodox. 



> i just think as a musician it's condescending to nitpick and degrade another musician like the majority of people in this thread seem to be comfortable doing.


If it's a musician asking for help, I agree that being condescending is just being an asshole. If it's talking about a musician who is in the public eye, especially one that makes the bold claim of being the most promising metal guitarist in the world, it's fair game. That's a high claim and can, will, and should be met with high expectations and standards. (I fully understand it's just a marketing line, but still).


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## Floppystrings (Mar 28, 2014)

rastachild said:


> no offense, but it's possible that all of the things you critiqued (vibrato, economy of picking, tone) are things she's made a conscious decision as a musician/guitarist/composer to be just as it is.



Lil Wayne agrees with your statement.


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## rastachild (Mar 28, 2014)

coreysMonster said:


> That's akin to an artist critiquing another artist's lack of anatomical understanding, and the artist saying "it's just my style".
> 
> If it sounded good, fluid and strong, it'd be a different story, then you could make the argument that her technique works for her, despite being unorthodox.



well that's just my point. it _is_ her style. expressing approval or disapproval is one thing but to pick her technique apart like it was an english paper reeks of superiority. 





coreysMonster said:


> If it's a musician asking for help, I agree that being condescending is just being an asshole. If it's talking about a musician who is in the public eye, especially one that makes the bold claim of being the most promising metal guitarist in the world, it's fair game. That's a high claim and can, will, and should be met with high expectations and standards. (I fully understand it's just a marketing line, but still).



not sure why she should be crucified for some over the top marketing statement that she probably had absolutely nothing to do with. i mean put yourself in that position...if your record label did the same to you, what would you do? denounce it in every interview? start every concert with a disclaimer? what is she supposed to do? it's just a silly hyperbole that is unfortunately being taken a bit too literally in this thread.


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## Floppystrings (Mar 28, 2014)

rastachild said:


> i mean put yourself in that position...if your record label did the same to you, what would you do? denounce it in every interview? start every concert with a disclaimer? what is she supposed to do? it's just a silly hyperbole that is unfortunately being taken a bit too literally in this thread.



She isn't on a record label.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 28, 2014)

rastachild said:


> well that's just my point. it _is_ her style. expressing approval or disapproval is one thing but to pick her technique apart like it was an english paper reeks of superiority.



But we do that to literally everyone...


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## Floppystrings (Mar 28, 2014)

rastachild said:


> well that's just my point. it _is_ her style. expressing approval or disapproval is one thing but to pick her technique apart like it was an english paper reeks of superiority.



Have you seen her website?

The Commander-In-Chief > BIO

If you dislike things thats reek of superiority, this is probably the worst thing you have seen in weeks.


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## crg123 (Mar 28, 2014)

I can't take any one seriously who tries to be a serious guitarist with DR NEON&#8482; Strings.. but maybe thats just me


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 28, 2014)

What if he has a 'quipments and a van to put the 'quipments in? 

.. And some turn tables...

He may or may not be down with the devil...


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## axxessdenied (Mar 28, 2014)

boobs


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## Malkav (Mar 28, 2014)

rastachild said:


> no offense, but it's possible that all of the things you critiqued (vibrato, economy of picking, tone) are things she's made a conscious decision as a musician/guitarist/composer to be just as it is.



Though I get your other argument, I think it runs on a different tangent to what I'm trying to communicate, so in terms of what you've bracketed I'll try and maybe flesh out my point a bit:

1) Vibrato - Her's is fine if she wants to bill herself as a microtonal artist, but as soon as it starts getting non-diatonic one could say she's either a savant and just communicates music on a level far higher than we do, or she's just shaking that note out of tune.

2) Economy of Picking - Well yeah she can choose to use excess motion and waste energy, but then that's not really good technique. If you're billing yourself as the most promising metal guitarist or whatever else her site said about her then I would consider it a pretty important factor, Her live playing being on the sloppy side kinda reinforces that.

3) Tone - I pointed out that tone was subjective when I established it, but I mean if you like hers then rad.



rastachild said:


> i just think as a musician it's condescending to nitpick and degrade another musician like the majority of people in this thread seem to be comfortable doing.



Though I agree with you to a point the marketting slant being used to promote her really gets on my nerves, if you're gonna make such huge bold claims about yourself then cool* but you come off as being kinda douchey and some guys on the internet will probably bitch about it somewhere, I'm not above being one of those guys.

* I realise somebody in charge of marketting her is most likely making these claims/hyping things in that way, but then she shouldn't have signed off on it, not just because it's kinda douchey in an ego-ish kinda way, but because it's just so very ....ing lame.


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## narad (Mar 28, 2014)

Malkav said:


> * I realise somebody in charge of marketting her is most likely making these claims/hyping things in that way, but then she shouldn't have signed off on it, not just because it's kinda douchey in an ego-ish kinda way, but because it's just so very ....ing lame.



But it doesn't appear to be her or her management that's making these claims. If I claim Malkav is the most promising up-and-coming metal guitar player, is it fair for us to all nitpick your playing? That's how I see it.


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## stevexc (Mar 28, 2014)

narad said:


> But it doesn't appear to be her or her management that's making these claims. If I claim Malkav is the most promising up-and-coming metal guitar player, is it fair for us to all nitpick your playing? That's how I see it.



I would say posting them on her website is nearly as bad, or makes them as "officially endorsed by", as actually making the statements. They're using the statements as advertisement for her (I will mention that as far as my stance has been, I'm more upset by why those statements are made by anyone, rather than her or her management making them).

And honestly if I posted a video of me playing and a quote from anyone saying "the next king of shred! most promising guitarist!" then I would fully expect my playing to be dissected. Hell, in all reality that would be the express reason to post a video of myself playing, and posting that statement would intentionally serve to convince people to check it out.

I would expect people to post the same kind of commentary on her playing if she posted the video herself. If she was a promising guitarist, then she would appreciate that and take the critiques seriously so she could improve.

There is nothing I'd love to see more than for her to actually get better and be the next Steve Vai. But she's got a very long way to go before that happens.


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## Malkav (Mar 28, 2014)

narad said:


> But it doesn't appear to be her or her management that's making these claims. If I claim Malkav is the most promising up-and-coming metal guitar player, is it fair for us to all nitpick your playing? That's how I see it.



Well you could say that if you want to, but you'd be wrong cause I still have miles to go and far more work to do 

If a major publication said those things about me it'd most likely never make it to my website because I wouldn't want to present myself that way, and for things like that T.V appearance I would either correct the presenters/people who organised it on how incorrect they are, or having seen the rider (cause these shows generally send you briefs with the times you need to be there, and a run down of the content [I know cause I've been on one]) I'd just be like "No, you're not saying that about me".


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## ilyti (Mar 28, 2014)

This thread is only 7 pages long because the OP oversold her skills in the thread title. 

Or maybe this all would have happened anyway, even if he just said "look, a girl with an ugly guitar dressed like Paul McCartney in Sgt Pepper."


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## stevexc (Mar 28, 2014)

ilyti said:


> This thread is only 7 pages long because the OP oversold her skills in the thread title.
> 
> Or maybe this all would have happened anyway, even if he just said "look, a girl with an ugly guitar dressed like Paul McCartney in Sgt Pepper."



I don't even think he meant to, haha... he was just passing on what they called her in the video.


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## Floppystrings (Mar 28, 2014)

Malkav said:


> * I realise somebody in charge of marketting her is most likely making these claims/hyping things in that way, but then she shouldn't have signed off on it, not just because it's kinda douchey in an ego-ish kinda way, but because it's just so very ....ing lame.



SOOOOOO THIS^^^^

I couldn't have said it better. 

When someone makes outrageous claims, they need to be prepared to back them up with their playing.

Her marketing army is well aware that no press is bad press, they know people are going to deny her claims. They literally want this thread just how it is, 7 pages long, all about her, youtube video hits galore, search engines blowing up with her name.


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## Xaios (Mar 30, 2014)

I would not want to be her and come across this thread.


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## pattonfreak1 (Mar 31, 2014)

I'll stick with Sarah Longfield


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## Malkav (Mar 31, 2014)

Xaios said:


> I would not want to be her and come across this thread.



I'm pretty sure she wouldn't care, I mean it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and if anything as already mentioned just assisting to get her out there really.

Also this probably isn't the only thread on the internet with this sort of tepid to lukewarm response to her music or marketting slant.


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## stevexc (Mar 31, 2014)

Malkav said:


> I'm pretty sure she wouldn't care, I mean it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and if anything as already mentioned just assisting to get her out there really.
> 
> Also this probably isn't the only thread on the internet with this sort of tepid to lukewarm response to her music or marketting slant.



Yeah, if she came in here asking for constructive feedback, I'm sure she'd get some - and it would be phrased a lot more nicely, too, haha.


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## hairychris (Mar 31, 2014)

crg123 said:


> I can't take any one seriously who tries to be a serious guitarist with DR NEON Strings.. but maybe thats just me



Quite.

Electric Basses K5 - K5WHLTDWC Fieldy | Ibanez guitars


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## chassless (Mar 31, 2014)

what's wrong with colored strings ? i mean if we're ready to have wildly colored body finishes, original pickup covers and matching hardware, why not the strings as well ?


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## stevexc (Mar 31, 2014)

chassless said:


> what's wrong with colored strings ? i mean if we're ready to have wildly colored body finishes, original pickup covers and matching hardware, why not the strings as well ?



I've heard they've changed the coating formula/process somewhat recently, but they developed a really bad reputation due to the color flaking off within days, leaving you with gross strings and metal flakes everywhere.


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## rectifryer (Mar 31, 2014)

Frankly if I had a 5 page thread discussing my inept playing I would feel more accomplished than I do now. But noone cares if I suck. They care if she sucks.
























nomsaiyan


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 31, 2014)

^


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## chassless (Mar 31, 2014)

stevexc said:


> I've heard they've changed the coating formula/process somewhat recently, but they developed a really bad reputation due to the color flaking off within days, leaving you with gross strings and metal flakes everywhere.



oh, didn't know that. well i guess those neon strings are for live performances then, or something, i've got no experience with them yet


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## JohnIce (Mar 31, 2014)

Are there many better guitarists than her? Yes.
Is she more memorable than most of them? Yes.

So I guess the score is 1-1, right? 

Meh, people always get pissy when someone gets attention. It's just attention, she still needs a producer and a more interesting artistic direction, which holds true for 99% of the bands in the world and on this board too. She's just a bit better at creating that initial interest, will that make her successful in the long run? Haha what?! NO! 

People always confuse interest/fame with success . There are tons of interesting people who eventually fade out if their work fails to deliver in the long run. Reality TV stars etc. Nature will have its course. Calm down. She either gets better or she fades away, it's gonna be a win/win anyhow. I personally hope for the former, because I'm a fan of good music.

Sitting around discussing why she doesn't deserve attention though is just dumb, you're the ones giving her the attention


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 31, 2014)

JohnIce said:


> Is she more memorable than most of them? Yes.



If we're talking musically, then no.


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## Black_Sheep (Mar 31, 2014)

I like everything about her... Except her music  ...I just find it boring and un-inspired. I bet she would be way more awesome in a band than as a solo artist.


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## JohnIce (Mar 31, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If we're talking musically, then no.



Haha you're right, but we're not. We're talking about a performer, as opposed to a session musician or a freelance songwriter etc. She would probably not be a good pick for those


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## OmegaSlayer (May 31, 2014)

Still Commander In Chief has an Ibanez LACS and Christian Muenzner not.
Which bums the hell out of me.
Yes, I'm biased.

(No problems with Nili Brosh having a LACS, I'm not a misoginist )



Not a LACS there though


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## bebbe (May 31, 2014)

Uninspired indeed, every 16 year old garage shredder hits or surpasses that level. 

Always nice with some eye-candy though


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## fenderbender4 (May 31, 2014)

As to the hailing of "Most Promising Metal Guitarist", this is what happens when "Good copy" does drugs.


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## Epyon6 (Jun 1, 2014)

Two female guitarists that I think are superior and even younger off the top of my head are Sarah Longfeild and Annie Grunwald, both very talented musicians.


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## tm20 (Jun 1, 2014)

Norway definitely has found the most promising guitarist in the world, it's just not her...


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