# The 9 String Guitar Thread



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 17, 2011)

Okay, lets get this started. Obviously these 9 string guitars have been popping up here and there. Not really sure why or how the did, but I'm sure Agile guitars helped it along. Regardless of how they came to be, I'm very interested in getting one myself, just for that extra range and possibilities of experimentation. But I haven't even owned an 8 string before, just a 7 that I play now. I'm curious if anyone has skipped buying an 8 string and have come strait from a 7 to a 9?

Also, when you guys pickup your 9 strings, what style do you guys go for?

Discuss!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Winspear (Oct 17, 2011)

I've never played an 8 and have a custom 9 on order, moving up from a 7. 
I can't really add anything more useful than that until I get it haha! But I'll be using it to spread out chords and make interesting voicings, often missing out strings to make the sound less cluttered. Using it tuned with a high string to minimise high fret playing, extend arpeggios, and once again extend chord voicings easily.
29.75-24.75 fanned scale lengths. EA EADGBE A all down a semitone.


----------



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 17, 2011)

Well keep me informed on how your hands and playing style adjust.


----------



## shredguitar7690 (Oct 17, 2011)

I also bought a 9 string Agile (Trible Purple ) 28.625 inch neck with passive pickups from agile but it won't come until April. I will post a lengthy NGD thread with sexy pics and videos then. More people who actually have 9 strings need to post on this thread lol


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 18, 2011)

Well, I've got a 10 string from Oakland Axe Factory, so I kind of belong in this thread. I will be doing a 9 string build soon, but I'm just a little hung up on the specs. Anyway, I (personally) don't have much use for a string higher than E. It's super hard to take the fast lead stuff I'm used to doing on the upper strings and translate it one string lower than the "new" highest string. For whatever reason that isn't an issue with the lowest.

Also, I made a little official logo for your thread here:


----------



## vansinn (Oct 18, 2011)

I'll keep it short as I have no 9'er (yet).
I went straight from 6 to 8. No problem, because my mindset had already adjusted to this concept.
I really wanted an aditional A4, but decided to wait, pending more experiments with those strings (check http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/162586-a4-beyond-thread.html#post2544199), and as such could have made a fairly uncomplicated jump to nine strings.

I believe how much a jump is doable very much depends on being mentally ready or not.
If trying out a seven or eight feels like constantly banding into this/those extra string(s), you're not ready. Give it some time, and see if the feeling of additional strings starts to become natural when playing an ordinary 6/7 stringer.

Apart from this, yes, the board is wider, but after a few days, it really doesn't feel like much.
The longer scale likewise is easily adjusted to.
Of course a nine stringer will even wider, but I bet an instrument with the right balance, and as such, good ergonomics, will likewise be fairly easy getting used to.

(mmnn.. turned out not that short, hehe..)


----------



## Murdstone (Oct 18, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Well, I've got a 10 string from Oakland Axe Factory, so I kind of belong in this thread. I will be doing a 9 string build soon, but I'm just a little hung up on the specs. Anyway, I (personally) don't have much use for a string higher than E. It's super hard to take the fast lead stuff I'm used to doing on the upper strings and translate it one string lower than the "new" highest string. For whatever reason that isn't an issue with the lowest.



I feel the same way with the A4 on my 10. For some reason it's a lot bigger of an adjustment than adding an extra low string, it feels a lot more foreign.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 18, 2011)

Murdstone said:


> I feel the same way with the A4 on my 10. For some reason it's a lot bigger of an adjustment than adding an extra low string, it feels a lot more foreign.


 
That's because you guys didn't move the M3 interval to the 2nd-3rd strings, you left it at G-B which moves it to the 3rd-4th strings and messes up everything. That's why I tune my 9's EADGCFBbDG and whenever I finally build/buy a fanned 8 it will be AEADGCEA.

I have 2.5 9-strings right now, the third is in construction still  and have never touched an 8-string yet. To be completely honest I rarely if ever even use the 7th string on my Ibanez, let alone the 8th and 9th strings on my 9's. To that end I've halted construction on the 3rd 9-string until I decide what to do for specs and whatnot.

For pickups I use EMG's DC series, either the 45-DC on an angle or the 40-DC straight up. They're 'bass pickups' but give a great clear tone that can be EQ'ed to whatever taste is desired.


----------



## celticelk (Oct 18, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> That's because you guys didn't move the M3 interval to the 2nd-3rd strings, you left it at G-B which moves it to the 3rd-4th strings and messes up everything. That's why I tune my 9's EADGCFBbDG and whenever I finally build/buy a fanned 8 it will be AEADGCEA.



Of course, if you're committed to playing certain pieces that require the M3 in the "traditional" place to finger/sound correctly, that solution doesn't work. Anything that uses standard-tuning barre chords, for example.


----------



## Murdstone (Oct 18, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> That's because you guys didn't move the M3 interval to the 2nd-3rd strings, you left it at G-B which moves it to the 3rd-4th strings and messes up everything. That's why I tune my 9's EADGCFBbDG and whenever I finally build/buy a fanned 8 it will be AEADGCEA.



Well I keep mine down a step and in fourths so it's no longer a problem, but I kind of feel like a moron for never even thinking of doing that when I had it tuned standard. Thanks for sharing


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 18, 2011)

celticelk said:


> Of course, if you're committed to playing certain pieces that require the M3 in the "traditional" place to finger/sound correctly, that solution doesn't work. Anything that uses standard-tuning barre chords, for example.



They work fine, you play them on the first 6 strings. It's like having a capo up at G for me.


----------



## Winspear (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't know, I'll try that sometime, but imagining it I think it would really confuse me. I found it very natural having the high A above the normal 6. I was always able to easily add the next logical note to all my chord fingerings.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 18, 2011)

I look at it as tuning up a 6-string to G or A then adding 3 low strings rather than adding a high and a low string. Whatever works for you is obviously best though


----------



## Poparad (Oct 18, 2011)

I have an Agile 9 that I posted a thread about a few weeks ago. I'm waiting on some O4P high A strings as it's a 28.625" scale and everything else I've tried so far has broken, and none of the other tunings I've tried for the high A were to my liking. I've been wanting to post some videos, but I need the strings first before I can make record something useful to show off the extended range.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 18, 2011)

Yeah, I pretty much like to keep all my guitars in standard or drop tuning. Obviously I could alter it to straight 4ths or move that major 3rd up a string, but then I would either need to do that to my other guitars or not play the same stuff on my guitars. It might just be a matter of practicing on that guitar more.

Troy, we gonna get to see your second 9? For some reason I only remember that HD challenge one. Did you post pics of the second?


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 19, 2011)

I guess I never did take any real photos. Basically I put it together to test the neck and stuff before finishing it and then just left it that way  One of these years I'll either finish it and take photos or just photo it as-is. It's far from perfect but still pretty badass IMO. I have an old progress photo, just imagine this but with pickups and controls:






It's extremely light with the 1.5" thick semi-hollow body, Sperzels, and MUCH thinner neck than the HD-9 - significantly lighter than my RR1 even.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 19, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> I guess I never did take any real photos. Basically I put it together to test the neck and stuff before finishing it and then just left it that way  One of these years I'll either finish it and take photos or just photo it as-is. It's far from perfect but still pretty badass IMO. I have an old progress photo, just imagine this but with pickups and controls:



Yeah, that's pretty badass! What scale is that? You're basically tuning it up a step and a half from where I have mine. I've been thinking about doing another 9, but I wanted to go even lower, so I'm actually thinking of doing a longer scale (longer than 30") and doing a 10 tuned down to G#0 and up to the regular E. But I like what you're doing there, so I might have to mess around with some tuning options and think about that. It's very likely that I will have to accept the 9 and 10 as a different instrument and tune it as I need, rather than sticking with standard tuning.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm at 27.5" for both of my completed 9's. The goal for one of the next ones, whenever that is, is to do a 22-27" or 22.5-27.5" fan but it's probably going to need custom pickups among other things. The tuning I'm looking at will be like EAEADGCEA. I really just don't see myself ever using a string lower than that low E (even that I find too low most of the time) except for playing actual bass parts and for that I'd want a 30+" scale.


----------



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 19, 2011)

Well does anyone know what kind of tuning would work on a 9 string? ie standard, half step down, full step down, etc?


----------



## Winspear (Oct 19, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Well does anyone know what kind of tuning would work on a 9 string? ie standard, half step down, full step down, etc?



There's no answer to that. Highly dependent on scale length, if fanned or not, tuning shapes that you like, strings available, keys to transpose it to, etc. And of course what you desire from the instrument. How low is too low? etc.


----------



## AntiTankDog (Oct 19, 2011)

Poparad said:


> I have an Agile 9 that I posted a thread about a few weeks ago. I'm waiting on some O4P high A strings as it's a 28.625" scale and everything else I've tried so far has broken, and none of the other tunings I've tried for the high A were to my liking. I've been wanting to post some videos, but I need the strings first before I can make record something useful to show off the extended range.



Be careful with that. I've tuned my 9 to drop-e,down a half step. The 28.625" scale isn't very nice to o4p strings. Ab is hell of a lot easier to achieve and maintain. 

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Winspear (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah, seems the tension increase required when getting up that high is really extreme between semitones. Is that because the Hz jump is more??


----------



## Poparad (Oct 19, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Well does anyone know what kind of tuning would work on a 9 string? ie standard, half step down, full step down, etc?



Here's my ideal tuning:

EBEADGBEA

However, as I stated above, I'm having problems getting the high string tuned to an A without breaking. I did try this and it worked well with a normal D'Addario .007:

EADGCFADG

All fourths with the major third in the usual place, just with everything but the low E tuned down a whole step. The only problem I have with that is that I play a lot of gigs where I'm reading charts, and having to transpose everything on the fly is (at the moment) way more of a pain in the ass than I would prefer to deal with. On the flip side, due to the longer scale, the notes on frets 2 and above (same as the open strings on a standard tuned guitar) "feel" the same as a standard scale instrument, so it's basically like I have two extra low frets at the end of the neck.


----------



## Poparad (Oct 19, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Well does anyone know what kind of tuning would work on a 9 string? ie standard, half step down, full step down, etc?



P.S. Your avatar is my 9-string. I placed a custom order back in March, and I guess they made a few extra copies of it and currently have it for sale as a stock model.


----------



## Poparad (Oct 19, 2011)

AntiTankDog said:


> Be careful with that. I've tuned my 9 to drop-e,down a half step. The 28.625" scale isn't very nice to o4p strings. Ab is hell of a lot easier to achieve and maintain.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



I had a D'Addario .007 tuned up to Ab without issue. I couldn't go any further than that. My hope is the O4P will give me that final half step.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 19, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> I'm at 27.5" for both of my completed 9's. The goal for one of the next ones, whenever that is, is to do a 22-27" or 22.5-27.5" fan but it's probably going to need custom pickups among other things. The tuning I'm looking at will be like EAEADGCEA. I really just don't see myself ever using a string lower than that low E (even that I find too low most of the time) except for playing actual bass parts and for that I'd want a 30+" scale.



Just use some Bass pickups. Delano and Bartolini make some decently priced 7-string bass pickups. Those should be wide enough for a 9-string, depending on fan and spacing. There are always the Lace Tonebars as well.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 19, 2011)

That's cool, I didn't realize that there were production 7-string bass pickups. I haven't really looked into it yet besides to see that there is no EMG DC bigger than the 45, unfortunately.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah, pickups are really the limitation for us now. A fanned 10 string would technically require a pretty wide pickup, depending on fan. I'm looking at maybe using a Lace tonebar myself. I can't remember if the Delano or Lace was wider (in terms of string spacing) but I want to say it was the Lace. At any rate the specs are on the websites.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 19, 2011)

^ just looked it up and the Tone Bar 12 is the same width as the EMG-45DC so that's kind of out. Looks like there are some Delano options that are wider and roughly twice the cost of an EMG, but I guess that's to be expected when looking at such a niche product.

I'm kind of thinking though at $400 for a pair I could probably just get a custom set from Nordstrand or someone else like that.


----------



## Winspear (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah Lace wasn't even an option for my 9. Nordstrand said they would do it and also Lundgren at one point but they changed their mind. Might be worth asking again anyone who is interested.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 19, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah Lace wasn't even an option for my 9. Nordstrand said they would do it and also Lundgren at one point but they changed their mind. Might be worth asking again anyone who is interested.



Really? I didn't get anywhere with Nordstrand for my 10 string. If high output is not a necessity you guys should check out Villex. Super easy to work with, and very clear pups. The only (potential) downside is he likes to put them in wood shells, so you have to have those made for him. But he'll do just about anything you want, in terms of fan or number of strings.

Also, why don't more people do two pickups? Like two six string pups next to each other, one covering the top strings, the other the bottom. You could even flip one around so the active poles (or bars) are closest to each other to minimize a sound difference across the strings. I would think two blade style humbuckers arranged that way, and tilted with the fan, would cover the 9 string range.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 19, 2011)

It would certainly work but you couldn't get both pickups to be the same distance from the bridge unless you cut off the inner mounting tabs and epoxied the two pickups together or something.


----------



## AntiTankDog (Oct 20, 2011)

Poparad said:


> I had a D'Addario .007 tuned up to Ab without issue. I couldn't go any further than that. My hope is the O4P will give me that final half step.


 
A few years ago I had an Intrepid 8, tuned drop A to high A. That string broke all the time. If I hit a chord hard - snap. It would just break sitting on the stand sometimes. 

If you have to have to achieve high A, my suggestion would be to go fanned, so it's 27" on that side.


----------



## Winspear (Oct 20, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Really? I didn't get anywhere with Nordstrand for my 10 string.



Yeah, it was the end of June that I talked to them. They weren't hesitant at all and I'm sure it would've gone through fine if I hadn't pulled out (due to going with Vik+his own pu's)
Perhaps things have changed their since your 10 was done.


----------



## vansinn (Oct 20, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah, seems the tension increase required when getting up that high is really extreme between semitones. Is that because the Hz jump is more??



No, the string is simply getting close to it's max capability.
Try this test:
On a decently long scale (which you have) already with some nice tension, bend the top string.
You can likely easily bend a half or full stop, but after this you'll gradually feel the string not giving-in the same way and sortof complaining, like please, no more, I like spanking, but this feels too tight.. 

On my 26.5" Riot 8, with the 008 high string is tuned to G4, I can easily bend to G4# and slightly more, but even though I can bend to A4, I feel the string being at the edge of it's capability.
Fun.. on my old 25" Dan Armstrong, the same type /gauge string was bendable a full stop up from A4 - for a week, then snap 
The difference here is that, even though the string is tuned a full stop higher (A4 vs G4), this (25" A4) steady-state situation is nevertheless decently further from the strings max capability, s compared to being constantly stretched to G4 at the longer 26.5".


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 21, 2011)

Well, I just changed my tuning on the 10 string. Now I'm tuning C# F# B E A D G B E E. Care to guess why? 

I think I'm going to pick up one of those .007s and see if I can get to G on the high end. I've got an .0085 on there now, but I'm paranoid to get up higher. (There's only so many string breakages one can handle before getting scared to tune above E.)


----------



## Winspear (Oct 21, 2011)

^ From my experience you'll be fine in G with the .0085


----------



## vansinn (Oct 21, 2011)

As said, for me a 008 works fine at G4 with bends to G4#, at 26.5" scale.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm using .008s tuned to G at 27.5" on my 9s. They break sooner than the other strings by far, but are generally useable if you're not an aggressive player (which I am, unfortunately). You can also buy like a dozen of them for $3 on MF. I'm using the cheapo Rogue ones and they seem fine.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 21, 2011)

Cool, thanks you guys. 

Also, I find it surprising that people can easily get E at 30", but I guess I just don't understand the way the tension works that well. Another 3" would seem excessive but I guess it works. I want to get another 9+ string, so I'm trying to decide what scale length, but it appears that 30" on the high E is no problem at all.


----------



## troyguitar (Oct 21, 2011)

I would break a .009 tuned to E at 30" but a .008 would probably work. I have no clue how people can use .010s like that unless they just never bend their strings.


----------



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 23, 2011)

OK I'll give a bit more detail with my question. When it comes to a 9 string guitar at 28.625&#8221; scale, .009 -.090 string gauge, non multi-scale; First, what would a standard tuning be? Is it C#F#BEADGBE? Second, what would be drop tunings? Or tunings at regular intervals like a half step down, full step down, two steps down etc? Simple


----------



## Winspear (Oct 23, 2011)

Standard = C# F# B EADGBE 
or F# B EADGBE A (needs a short scale)

Tuning the 6 string to D standard would give you E A DGCFAD G with the high string tuning, which is a bit more managable without breaking the high string. 
Drop tunings...B F# B EADGBE or E BEADGBE A
etc


----------



## Shi7Disc0 (Oct 23, 2011)

Im probably going to a 7 soon as i can scrape up the green. I went straight from a 6 stratocaster to a Schectar Solo-8.

I love it dont get me wrong, but I just feel like its unecessary. 7 strings can get a close enough range with downtuning of the B though I prefer standard tuning through the high strings because of the shimmer from the higher chords, and the tightness of the strings. 

That being said, there is plenty to challenge myself from 6-8 strings, I will probably never get a 9 or 10 for that matter.


----------



## F0rte (Oct 23, 2011)

Anyone going to be checking out the Agile 9 string Pend's?
Heard they are due to release in the next couple of months. I hope they do because I really don't want to totally blow $2-3000 on a custom made 9 string with a multiscale....
-_____________-
Really want to work around with the F#-A tuning 

Sadly to those of you looking to do the same as me, when I had lessons with Rusty Cooley and asked him about his FF Conklin 9 he said that the scale lengths didnt work out in his favor. I believe it was 23.5-27.5?
Something like that. But im curious to try one out for myself.


----------



## space frog (Oct 23, 2011)

^they have one out on their site



vansinn said:


> As said, for me a 008 works fine at G4 with bends to G4#, at 26.5" scale.



f#4, 0.09, 28.625 scale works well for me on my intrepid 8 string

strangely enough, I see people were scared by the idea of adding an extra HIGH string, but that's what I always wanted to do lol... I think it adds so much range and potential. I tune to drop F# and while I get the low end rumble, I can do crazy leads with the high f#. And crazy open chords too.


----------



## F0rte (Oct 23, 2011)

space frog said:


> ^they have one out on their site
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Meant non Kahler..


----------



## space frog (Oct 24, 2011)

LolWotGuitar said:


> Meant non Kahler..




oh my bad


----------



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 24, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Standard = C# F# B EADGBE
> or F# B EADGBE A (needs a short scale)
> 
> Tuning the 6 string to D standard would give you E A DGCFAD G with the high string tuning, which is a bit more managable without breaking the high string.
> ...



Kool, ok now what about drop tunings? Could I drop it like a 7 or 8 and just drop the C#.090 accordingly?


----------



## ElRay (Oct 25, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah, seems the tension increase required when getting up that high is really extreme between semitones. Is that because the Hz jump is more??



Yes and Yes^2. The formula for tension, at a given pitch is:






The frequency is there, and it's squared. The square will dominate, especially at higher frequencies, but there's still a factor because there are more cycles/sec between two higher semitones than two lower.

Ray


----------



## space frog (Oct 25, 2011)

^props


----------



## vansinn (Oct 26, 2011)

^ thanks² for clearing this up, ElRay! (could you highlight the black math?)
In my post #35, I came up with a different explanation (the string is simply getting close to it's max capability), which may be fine in layman's terms, where your's is math'ish correct


----------



## ElRay (Oct 27, 2011)

vansinn said:


> ^ thanks² for clearing this up, ElRay! (could you highlight the black math?)


It's a GIF I didn't realize had no background. I wasn't in the mood to try to format the formula in text. Hmmm. All the images I'm finding have transparent backgrounds. Jump to: String Tension that's the original source.

Ray


----------



## death metal atticted (Oct 27, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, that's pretty badass! What scale is that? You're basically tuning it up a step and a half from where I have mine. I've been thinking about doing another 9, but I wanted to go even lower, so I'm actually thinking of doing a longer scale (longer than 30") and doing a 10 tuned down to G#0 and up to the regular E. But I like what you're doing there, so I might have to mess around with some tuning options and think about that. It's very likely that I will have to accept the 9 and 10 as a different instrument and tune it as I need, rather than sticking with standard tuning.



I don't understand how do you tune to Ab0 i mean your strings have to be thick as hell.Do made such things do you have to be extremely experienced in guitar or anyone can do that?


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 28, 2011)

death metal atticted said:


> I don't understand how do you tune to Ab0 i mean your strings have to be thick as hell.Do made such things do you have to be extremely experienced in guitar or anyone can do that?



I'm not sure what your second question means. I am not building any guitars personally, it that's what you mean. Regarding the tuning to Ab0, you can tune as low as you want since you can always get a thicker string or longer scale. I'm at .090 for C#1 at 30", so if I increase the scale length and string diameter I should be able to get to G#1. Whether or not I can do anything musical with it is another question.


----------



## space frog (Oct 28, 2011)

I guess you had to drill your tuners a bit??


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 29, 2011)

space frog said:


> I guess you had to drill your tuners a bit??



No. You can get away with that up to a certain size wire, but really thick wires still won't fit. It's just better to unwind the wrapping.


----------



## space frog (Oct 29, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> No. You can get away with that up to a certain size wire, but really thick wires still won't fit. It's just better to unwind the wrapping.



damn, thanks good to know


----------



## Wrecklyss (Dec 24, 2013)

I have been considering a 9 string, but would like some advice on scale length, preferably form some with experience with them. Based on my fascination with the Chapman Stick, i would tune the bottom 4 strings like a bass but opposite, and the top 5 like a guitar starting at the A string (low to high: G,D,A,E,A,D,G,B,E).

What scale length would allow chord work without floppy, loose strings, and what string spacing? Would probably do diads/triads/boxed rythym runs on the low side and more traditional chord work on the high side.

Edit: 1000th post!


----------



## shawnperolis (Dec 24, 2013)

insanebassninja said:


> In the words of my Guitar teacher.... "You can land a plane on that guitar" why go passed 8 strings? For my teacher why go passed 6 strings for me its 8 strings. Also 6 for a Bass guitar.



You revived a nearly 3 year old thread to bash people who play 9 string guitars?


----------



## 7stg (Dec 24, 2013)

Wrecklyss said:


> What scale length would allow chord work without floppy, loose strings, and what string spacing? Would probably do diads/triads/boxed rythym runs on the low side and more traditional chord work on the high side.


Well for chord work a shorter scale but for good string tension and clear bass notes requires a long scale. So, multi-scale is the answer try a 27-30 inch scale.




insanebassninja said:


> In the words of my Guitar teacher.... "You can land a plane on that guitar" why go passed 8 strings? For my teacher why go passed 6 strings for me its 8 strings. Also 6 for a Bass guitar.



And to you necrobumping a 3 year old thread just to talk trash


too harsh??


----------



## Wrecklyss (Dec 24, 2013)

7stg said:


> Well for chord work a shorter scale but for good string tension and clear bass notes requires a long scale. So, multi-scale is the answer try a 27-30 inch scale.



The problem with multi-scale is that the lowest string will be in the middle, as i plan on doing away with the guitar's low E and using a bass's low E in it's place. Kind of like what would happen if you put a left handed bass neck and a right handed guitar neck side by side, except no low E on the guitar.

So (descending) G,D,A,E (ascending)A,D,G,B,E


----------



## 7stg (Dec 24, 2013)

Wrecklyss said:


> The problem with multi-scale is that the lowest string will be in the middle, as i plan on doing away with the guitar's low E and using a bass's low E in it's place. Kind of like what would happen if you put a left handed bass neck and a right handed guitar neck side by side, except no low E on the guitar.
> 
> So (descending) G,D,A,E (ascending)A,D,G,B,E




So like Warr Guitars


----------



## Wrecklyss (Dec 24, 2013)

7stg said:


> So like Warr Guitars



Yes, exactly


----------



## 7stg (Dec 24, 2013)

Wrecklyss said:


> I have been considering a 9 string, but would like some advice on scale length, preferably form some with experience with them. Based on my fascination with the Chapman Stick, i would tune the bottom 4 strings like a bass but opposite, and the top 5 like a guitar starting at the A string (low to high: G,D,A,E,A,D,G,B,E).


Should of read the first post more closely. 


All Chapman sticks are 36 inch scale except the Railboard which is 34. Given the low E1 desired like a bass I would consider any scale between 32-37 maybe a bit more to be safe.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Dec 24, 2013)

You can't go much past 30" and still hit E4 with conventional strings, especially if you're doing bends. The X fret note on a 36" Stick's highest string is typically Db4 or lower, which corresponds roughly to a 30" E4. I'd aim for somewhere in the 28-30" range.


----------



## Wrecklyss (Dec 24, 2013)

Thank you both 7str and Infinity Collision. I have been looking at Rondo as an introduction to the 9 string idea i would want to try, and there was a 28.625 scale that i think would offer the best compromise. They can do 30 as well, but i almost would have to use two hand tap technique exclusively to make that work. I want to be able to tap, strum, pick, and slap in combination. No, i haven't mastered all of those techniques, but how much fun would experimentation be?


----------



## 7stg (Dec 24, 2013)

To try a scale length before buying find a bass with a 34" scale and capo at the 2nd fret for 30.3, 3rd fret for 28.6, and 4th fret for 27, or a 35" scale bass can be capoed at 2nd fret for 31.2, 3rd fret for 29.4, 4th fret for 27.7, 5th fret for 26.2.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Dec 24, 2013)

Necroquoting for a moment...


EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah, seems the tension increase required when getting up that high is really extreme between semitones. Is that because the Hz jump is more??





ElRay said:


> Yes and Yes^2. The formula for tension, at a given pitch is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The frequency increase from one interval to another is a fixed multiplier regardless of pitch (12th root of 2 to the nth power, where n is the interval difference in semitones). Given the aforementioned tension formula, it's easy to see that multiplying frequency by a given value will increase the tension of a string by the square of that value. The actual frequency is irrelevant, it's simply a larger numerical increase as you increase your base tension through any means. Tuning up one semitone will always yield a tension of base tension * ~1.225.


----------



## AlexThorpe (Dec 24, 2013)

As soon as a maple boarded 928 or fixed bridge fanned fret comes back in stock at rondo I'm snapping it up. I wish they made bolt-on models but for the fact they even make production 9 strings I have to be thankful. Can't wait!


----------



## Roy (Dec 26, 2013)

Reading the other comments in this topic, I seem to be "the guy who plays low tension".
I have an Agile Interceptor (not the purple, but the green) 28", tuned to A E A D G C F A D.

using Circle K ranging from 98 to 009 works fine when tuned to A ..... D (as mentioned above), although the 98 might be a little sloppy tuned to A (110Hz). Tried using a 102, but that didn't work with the locking mechanism. The second and third string weren't being held in place. Could work with a complete set from 102 - 010 though. Didn't try that yet.

After buying a 9, I bought an 8 from a user on this forum (thanks again). Haven't played much on it yet, but in general the step (fingers AND mind) from 6 to 7 strings is about the same as from 7 to 8 (or 9).
If you figured out how to play a 7, you can play an 8.
Just have to have some project to use it in. Write new material for your band, join a second (third, fourth ..) band, whatever gets your mind going.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Dec 26, 2013)

110 Hz is the A string on a 6-string. The low A on your 9 is A0, 27.5 Hz. Low tension indeed, that's about 11.5 lbs.


----------



## Roy (Dec 29, 2013)

the A (mostly the second string) on a 6 is 440 Hz.....


----------



## pondman (Dec 29, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> No. You can get away with that up to a certain size wire, but really thick wires still won't fit. It's just better to unwind the wrapping.



And you can have the stem snap off as I found on my 9V


----------



## Wrecklyss (Dec 29, 2013)

Roy said:


> the A (mostly the second string) on a 6 is 440 Hz.....



no, 110


----------



## InfinityCollision (Dec 29, 2013)

Roy said:


> the A (mostly the second string) on a 6 is 440 Hz.....



You're off by two octaves. A440 is A4, the A above the high open E string. Open A on a 6er is A2, 110Hz. Middle C on a piano is C4 261.63Hz, the first fret of the high B string (third fret on your high A).

You do know that guitar sheet music is written an octave above sounding pitch, right? Though that still leaves one octave unaccounted for in your post.


----------



## 7stg (Dec 29, 2013)

Frequency of the fundamental given, overtones have a higher frequency. Frequency of Notes

Open -- 24th fret
A4 - 440.000Hz -- A6 - 1760.000Hz - Uptuned guitar
E4 - 329.628Hz -- E6 - 1318.510Hz 
B3 - 246.942Hz -- B5 - 987.767Hz
G3 - 195.998Hz -- G5 - 783.991Hz
D3 - 146.832Hz -- D5 - 587.330Hz
A2 - 110.000Hz -- A4 - 440Hz
E2 - 82.407Hz -- E4 - 329.628Hz - 6 string 
B1 - 61.735Hz -- B3 - 246.942Hz - 7 string
F#1 - 46.249Hz -- F#3 - 184.997Hz - 8 string
C#1 - 34.648Hz -- C#3 - 138.591Hz - 9 string
G#0 - 25.957Hz -- G#2 - 97.999Hz - 10 string


----------



## nikolix (Dec 30, 2013)




----------



## insanebassninja (Jan 7, 2014)

Am very sorry about pissing you guys off. Thanks all I really need today. Really, now am interested in to play in one. Only if my had can fit around it.


----------



## insanebassninja (Jan 8, 2014)

nikolix said:


>



One I Think about I woulder how high can you tune this 9 string now.... I like being in BEADGBEAD. If I can which I see that not happening Or maybe F#BEADGBEA. That in my eyes would make since to me. I Guess when I really think about what I said, now was a very retarded to say. I guess Its for me can I fit my hand around it. I all Really know the 8 string I can. Which if I can I plan to Tune it to BEADGBEA.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 9, 2014)

insanebassninja said:


> One I Think about I woulder how high can you tune this 9 string now.... I like being in BEADGBEAD. If I can which I see that not happening Or maybe F#BEADGBEA. That in my eyes would make since to me. I Guess when I really think about what I said, now was a very retarded to say. I guess Its for me can I fit my hand around it. I all Really know the 8 string I can. Which if I can I plan to Tune it to BEADGBEA.



I'm not sure if I follow what you're writing there.  But I can say that unless you've got Tony Stark working on something in his basement, there's no string that will tune to D5 at any usable scale length. And A4 is a challenge from 25.5 to 27" as it is, and typically requires special strings. And often an act of congress to get special strings.

But really, the issue for me, when I was tuning to A4, was that it was exceptionally hard to play stuff, because I just couldn't retrain my muscle memory to deal with that additional high string. I don't know why, but I can add low strings all day long, but I never could adapt to the high string. Probably because when I play super fast stuff it's usually on those high strings, and my mind doesn't thing about those notes - it just goes off of muscle memory. And I gotta think I'm not alone in that, because we've seen a huge explosion over the last decade in adding more low strings, but from guitar makers, players, and string manufacturers. But there's not one production guitar or string designed for high A.


----------



## Winspear (Jan 9, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> I'm not sure if I follow what you're writing there.  But I can say that unless you've got Tony Stark working on something in his basement, there's no string that will tune to D5 at any usable scale length. And A4 is a challenge from 25.5 to 27" as it is, and typically requires special strings. And often an act of congress to get special strings.
> 
> But really, the issue for me, when I was tuning to A4, was that it was exceptionally hard to play stuff, because I just couldn't retrain my muscle memory to deal with that additional high string. I don't know why, but I can add low strings all day long, but I never could adapt to the high string. Probably because when I play super fast stuff it's usually on those high strings, and my mind doesn't thing about those notes - it just goes off of muscle memory. And I gotta think I'm not alone in that, because we've seen a huge explosion over the last decade in adding more low strings, but from guitar makers, players, and string manufacturers. But there's not one production guitar or string designed for high A.



I have a feeling you were one of the people I asked before, but did you try uptuning the B string to C? That way you end up with an uptuned guitar rather than an extra high string in terms of where the intervals are. Should be able to improvise that way - just everything will sound higher haha. Didn't work for me though for that exact reason. Which is actually the same reason I like enjoy detuned 6's - BEADF#B say, everything sounds lower than I expect, as opposed to a 7 which I just play as EADGBE+ a low B. Odd what the tuning of one higher string can do for the mentality across the whole guitar.


----------



## Uberlisk (Jan 9, 2014)

Yo, just wondering about scale length and string tension if i wanted to play around this tuning. (low to high) D# G# D# G# C# F# A# D# G #


----------



## jwade (Jan 9, 2014)

Uberlisk said:


> Yo, just wondering about scale length and string tension if i wanted to play around this tuning. (low to high) D# G# D# G# C# F# A# D# G #



Here you go: String Guage and Tension Calculator - Version 0.1.4 - 26 apr 1998


----------



## Winspear (Jan 9, 2014)

Uberlisk said:


> Yo, just wondering about scale length and string tension if i wanted to play around this tuning. (low to high) D# G# D# G# C# F# A# D# G #



My 9 string was designed around that exact tuning. You'll want to go 25" or preferably around 24.5" with an 008 for the high G#. 
For the low D# 28" with a .090 would be sufficient. I went 29.25 for a clearer tone though. I certainly wouldn't go below 27.5 (.090 still).
Tensions would be around 18.5-15.5 - i.e. like a 10 gauge set in standard on regular scale.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 9, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> I have a feeling you were one of the people I asked before, but did you try uptuning the B string to C? That way you end up with an uptuned guitar rather than an extra high string in terms of where the intervals are. Should be able to improvise that way - just everything will sound higher haha. Didn't work for me though for that exact reason. Which is actually the same reason I like enjoy detuned 6's - BEADF#B say, everything sounds lower than I expect, as opposed to a 7 which I just play as EADGBE+ a low B. Odd what the tuning of one higher string can do for the mentality across the whole guitar.



Yeah, I remember that! So yeah, that's an awesome suggestion, and it did totally work, in that I could play the same patterns and fingerings. But it would be all transposed up a fifth. So for composition it would be cool, but for playing covers it would be a pain to have to transpose it all down. Or, I could have just joined a DragonForce cover band and played a harmony over everything.  

But yeah, I think future instruments (including the XEN and OAF I have on order) will incorporate additional lower, but no additional strings (although, maybe additional frets if I really need a note above E6).


----------



## Uberlisk (Jan 10, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> My 9 string was designed around that exact tuning. You'll want to go 25" or preferably around 24.5" with an 008 for the high G#.
> For the low D# 28" with a .090 would be sufficient. I went 29.25 for a clearer tone though. I certainly wouldn't go below 27.5 (.090 still).
> Tensions would be around 18.5-15.5 - i.e. like a 10 gauge set in standard on regular scale.



Ok, thx for the advice. A scale length of 24 3/4 should be sufficient then for the high G#?


----------



## DeKay (Jan 10, 2014)

Would this 9 string be a good choice? The lowest string is planned to go to B

Agile Septor Elite 928 EB Tribal Purple - RondoMusic.com

neck, body alright?


----------



## 7stg (Jan 12, 2014)

DeKay said:


> Would this 9 string be a good choice? The lowest string is planned to go to B
> 
> Agile Septor Elite 928 EB Tribal Purple - RondoMusic.com
> 
> neck, body alright?



I would get a 930, the extra scale length will help the low end. They have several to choose from at the moment.


----------



## HurrDurr (Jan 20, 2014)

Has anyone seen the pic of the prototype 9 Schecter put up on their FB? It's just the bridge but it's eye-candy enough to desperately need one. Hopefully something else turns up around the net about this beast. I'd post the pic but I'm on my work computer and I can't save or upload any pics to my Photobucket.


----------



## DeKay (Jan 21, 2014)

Why is daddario or the other "big names" not making strings bigger than 090? I pretty much will order a custom set from labella to get me some 100 string for the low B0.


----------



## rahahoo (Jan 21, 2014)

HurrDurr, here is the pic of the 9 string Shecter from their FB page:


----------



## shawnperolis (Jan 21, 2014)

DeKay said:


> Why is daddario or the other "big names" not making strings bigger than 090? I pretty much will order a custom set from labella to get me some 100 string for the low B0.



I use a 110 on my 30" for the low B0. It is pretty good.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Jan 21, 2014)

DeKay said:


> Why is daddario or the other "big names" not making strings bigger than 090? I pretty much will order a custom set from labella to get me some 100 string for the low B0.



Because the market for such thick guitar strings is all but nonexistent. They're not really losing anything by not offering them.


----------



## DeKay (Jan 21, 2014)

shawnperolis said:


> I use a 110 on my 30" for the low B0. It is pretty good.



Got a sound example of the 110 string? I am pretty sure that an 110 can sound just as mean or even more as an 80 string.


----------



## shawnperolis (Jan 21, 2014)

DeKay said:


> Got a sound example of the 110 string? I am pretty sure that an 110 can sound just as mean or even more as an 80 string.



https://soundcloud.com/shawnperolis/sets/unfinished-undead-and-funky

I don't mean to post the entire "set" on soundcloud, but because this forum automatically censors text, the URL for the song I want to post gets ruined. 

Anyways, the first track on this has a low B0. It's not my best work, but it does show off the low end of the guitar in a decent way. I believe tracks 1,2, and 7 all feature the low B. The rest of the tracks are C#, I think.


----------



## HurrDurr (Jan 22, 2014)

This was to be expected from them. Still, it's an official 9-string release!

2014 : Hellraiser C-9


----------



## 7stg (Jan 22, 2014)

Here are the threads for the Schecter and Ibanez 9 string 2014 models -

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...er-hellraiser-c-9-debuted-schecters-site.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/260618-ibanez-9-string-rg-models-2014-a.html


----------



## crg123 (Jan 22, 2014)

O______O I really wonder if my local guitar center will pick up this or the ibanez 8. Since I'm in Boston an they've had some 8's before I'm reallllllyyy hoping to test these bad boys out.


----------

