# New ENGL Ironball 20w = mean lunchbox amp head



## mindwalker (Jan 18, 2013)

Just got this today on my news feed today! Sounds pretty good! Wonder about the shared EQ though... and I'm very curious about how that headphone out sounds..


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## mcleanab (Jan 18, 2013)

What a frakkin' little monster!

Awesome!

Give it to me!


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## Underworld (Jan 18, 2013)

Sounds cool to me!

After the Fireball, Powerball and Ironball, now I am waiting for the DRAGONBALL!


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## mcleanab (Jan 18, 2013)

mindwalker said:


> ... and I'm very curious about how that headphone out sounds..



I'm sure it sounds a lot like the e530 frequency compensated/headphone out...

Great for practice, but I don't care too much to record with it.


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## Mega-Mads (Jan 18, 2013)

Underworld said:


> Sounds cool to me!
> 
> After the Fireball, Powerball and Ironball, now I am waiting for the DRAGONBALL!



>9000!!!!!!



And shit those cleans are nice!!!!!


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## mindwalker (Jan 18, 2013)

mcleanab said:


> I'm sure it sounds a lot like the e530 frequency compensated/headphone out...
> 
> Great for practice, but I don't care too much to record with it.



I don't have any ENGL yet but my Blackstar HT-5R does headphones out and while it doesn't sound stellar, it's usable for practice as you say, however through headphones my oldie POD X3 sounds better. I guess this Ironball will be inline with the Blackstar..


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## Shabadoo (Jan 18, 2013)

After being pretty underwhelmed by the Gigmaster, I'm pretty excited to check this amp out.


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## vanhendrix (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm buying one. Now.


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## XEN (Jan 18, 2013)

Nice phat tone for a little guy!


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## peldikuneptun (Jan 18, 2013)

just noticed that it has a power soak knob on the back panel as well, which goes down to 1W output (which is still loud as hell for bedroom when cranked all the way, but still) - that's a very good addition imho.


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## Philligan (Jan 18, 2013)

mindwalker said:


> Wonder about the shared EQ though... and I'm very curious about how that headphone out sounds..



I didn't mind it on the HT-5. If you're using it to jam and go from like a juicy clean to a mid-rangey high gain it could be an issue, but I never had any problems. Even then, a pickup switch, volume adjustment, and playing differently can make a huge difference. 

Same as mindwalker said, the HT-5 headphone out was more than useable but not amazing. I didn't have any complaints - it still sounded good. I'm assuming this will be at least comparable, if not better.

I'm really interested in this. Hopefully the price point is decent, that amp would meet my needs perfectly.


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## irondavidson (Jan 18, 2013)

Underworld said:


> Sounds cool to me!
> 
> After the Fireball, Powerball and Ironball, now I am waiting for the DRAGONBALL!



I think soon they run out of names, the next will be just "Ball/s".. Dragonball will be made by Framus..


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## ChrisRushing (Jan 18, 2013)

Sounds good but does it include a tuner?


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## DaddleCecapitation (Jan 18, 2013)

Underworld said:


> Sounds cool to me!
> 
> After the Fireball, Powerball and Ironball, now I am waiting for the DRAGONBALL!



Only 7 will be created.


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## incinerated_guitar (Jan 19, 2013)

DaddleCecapitation said:


> Only 7 will be created.


 
And if you buy all seven, ENGL shall grant you one wish.


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## Justin_Blackened (Jan 21, 2013)

I love lunch box heads. I have a h&K Tubemeister 18watt head. Its a beast. It has a power soak as well 18, 5, 1 and record silent. Its a great function. Very very loud. I tend to use the 5watt mode the most. Has more low end than the 1 watt and can be just as quiet.

Looking forward to giving this one a whirl when it comes out


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## Justin_Blackened (Jan 21, 2013)

I should add it has a shared eq as well. I have no problem with it for all channels. Having said that I am waiting on a loopmaster switch and will be running 2 eqs one for clean and one for dirty. Which will giv3 me some more control but I can still get a good sound for both with just the shared eq. Excited to see how the 2 6 bands go.


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## zimbloth (Jan 23, 2013)

Ah I see this leaked, cool. I have a few of these on order, cant wait to try them. I too was not into the GigMaster much. This one is supposed to be way way better. I was told by someone "in the know" that this is one of the best sounding ENGL amps they've ever produced, irregardless of wattage.


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## flexkill (Jan 23, 2013)

Man, I don't understand all the Gigmaster hate. I love my Gigmaster...sounds fucking great. Great all around performer....I can get any tone out of it.


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## Shabadoo (Jan 23, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> Ah I see this leaked, cool. I have a few of these on order, cant wait to try them. I too was not into the GigMaster much. This one is supposed to be way way better. I was told by someone "in the know" that this is one of the best sounding ENGL amps they've ever produced, irregardless of wattage.



Do you know how much these amps will be going for?


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## zimbloth (Jan 23, 2013)

Shabadoo said:


> Do you know how much these amps will be going for?



The MAP price we'll be selling them for is $1199 shipped.


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## Hrafnkel (Jan 23, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> The MAP price we'll be selling them for is $1199 shipped.



Aaaand just like that, not interested. $1200 for a lunchbox amp? Lolol.


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## Mordacain (Jan 23, 2013)

Hrafnkel said:


> Aaaand just like that, not interested. $1200 for a lunchbox amp? Lolol.



Yea, I have to agree that at $1200, it's competition is waaaay too steep. Of course, that is the situation in America, where a mini-rec is at the 1K mark or less. In Europe, the situation will be reversed.

I'll just keep this in mind if my wife decides to study abroad afterall and I find myself in Europe for an extended period with no amp


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## zimbloth (Jan 23, 2013)

Hrafnkel said:


> Aaaand just like that, not interested. $1200 for a lunchbox amp? Lolol.



I think people have seriously mistaken what the Ironball is. This is a German made serious high-end tube amp, its not a cheap made in China amp like the Orange Micro Terror. It's meant for professional recording, gigging, rehearsals. It's not a mass-produced bedroom amp. It is however a much less expensive alternate to a full-size ENGL head. I guarantee this thing would smoke any of its mini-head contemporaries. If on a tighter budget the Orange, HK, Egnator, etc are nice alternatives but they're not capable of the tone or performance that this can bring.


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## Hrafnkel (Jan 24, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> I think people have seriously mistaken what the Ironball is. This is a German made serious high-end tube amp, its not a cheap made in China amp like the Orange Micro Terror. It's meant for professional recording, gigging, rehearsals. It's not a mass-produced bedroom amp. It is however a much less expensive alternate to a full-size ENGL head. I guarantee this thing would smoke any of its mini-head contemporaries. If on a tighter budget the Orange, HK, Egnator, etc are nice alternatives but they're not capable of the tone or performance that this can bring.



I don't think I'm mistaking anything. First of all, the notion that chinese amps can't be used at a pro level is elitist and asinine. Secondly, the Gig-Master is made in Germany, according to the chassis, and it doesn't cost nearly this much (with nearly all the same features). Thirdly, the micro terror is a horrible comparison anyway. And lastly, I really don't see how this Ironball, going by the video, is any more 'capable' of 'tone or performance' than the HK Tubemeisters, the Gigmaster, or Egnator lunchboxes. 

Actually, lastly, it's not massively less expensive than a Fireball, so it's not really a cheap alternative to a full sized Engl head either. It's just overpriced for what it is, all around. In all fairness though, that's almost invariably the case with Engl if you don't live in Europe, regardless of how much I may like them.


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## zimbloth (Jan 24, 2013)

Hrafnkel said:


> I don't think I'm mistaking anything. First of all, the notion that chinese amps can't be used at a pro level is elitist and asinine. Secondly, the Gig-Master is made in Germany, according to the chassis, and it doesn't cost nearly this much (with nearly all the same features). Thirdly, the micro terror is a horrible comparison anyway. And lastly, I really don't see how this Ironball, going by the video, is any more 'capable' of 'tone or performance' than the HK Tubemeisters, the Gigmaster, or Egnator lunchboxes.
> 
> Actually, lastly, it's not massively less expensive than a Fireball, so it's not really a cheap alternative to a full sized Engl head either. It's just overpriced for what it is, all around. In all fairness though, that's almost invariably the case with Engl if you don't live in Europe, regardless of how much I may like them.



You didn't read or understand one single thing in my post. Not even a little. My comment about being made in China isnt a dig. I dont think you understand how global trade works. I _never_ said Made in China sucks, but things in China cost a lot less to make than things in Germany. The Ironball is a higher-end product built with higher quality components by a more expensive labor force. *Hence, its going to cost more.*

Remember, my post was in response to people bitching about the price in comparison to their "competitors". It's unfair criticism considering their competitors models are mass-produced in China. I am affiliated with Orange and H&K as well, but its the truth.

And yes, to me $1199 is significantly less than what *most* full size ENGL heads cost. I seriously don't know what you're smoking dude.


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## Hrafnkel (Jan 24, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> You didn't read or understand one single thing in my post. Not even a little. My comment about being made in China isnt a dig. I dont think you understand how global trade works. I _never_ said Made in China sucks, but things in China cost a lot less to make than things in Germany. The Ironball is a higher-end product built with higher quality components by a more expensive labor force. *Hence, its going to cost more.*
> 
> Remember, my post was in response to people bitching about the price in comparison to their "competitors". It's unfair criticism considering their competitors models are mass-produced in China. I am affiliated with Orange and H&K as well, but its the truth.
> 
> And yes, to me $1199 is significantly less than what *most* full size ENGL heads cost. I seriously don't know what you're smoking dude.



And you didn't read anything I said either. The Gigmaster is an Engl product with most of the exact same feature set as the Ironball, also Made in Germany, for $749 (15w) or $949 (30w). And at $1299 it's about $150 less than a Fireball 60, which I would call a 'full size Engl head.' So I don't know what you're smoking, dude. 

And if you don't mean MIC as a 'dig' then don't go into such detail about how much more pro-quality MIG is. Especially since your average Engl amp really isn't constructed a whole lot differently than the MIC Oranges and the like; it's all PCB in there.


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## zimbloth (Jan 24, 2013)

Cool man. This is a silly argument. Again: The Ironball is $1199 not $1299. And for the millionth time, that's far cheaper than the typical ENGL head which costs around $2000+. The Gigmaster is not in the same league as the Ironball, ask anyone who is at NAMM and they'll tell you. This is a serious serious sounding amp that stands on its own, it's not a "mini" this or "micro" that. It is a studio ready, big sounding ENGL high gain amp. The gigmaster to me sounded nice but it sounded "small", it didn't push the kind of air and have the definition and tonal complexity of this amp. Hence the difference in price. 

My point remains: If people are bitching that the IB is too expensive, I'm sorry but the reason it costs more than a Chinese amp is because it costs more to make. The reason it costs more than the Gigmaster is that it's a higher end product. You get what you pay for sometimes. I like the Orange Tiny Terror and the like, but this is a serious professional sounding amp that hangs with any of their 100w heads. It's not meant to be a "lunch-box" practice amp. That's why I posted about the disconnect there. Nowhere was I talking down to Chinese amps, just illuminating some misconceptions 

If people don't understand why a high end German made high end tube amp would cost more than a Chinese mass produced amp, not sure what to tell you. I don't wish to argue with you anymore.


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## flexkill (Jan 24, 2013)

Well I'm sure the IB does sound better than the Gigmaster just for the fact it has a real tube preamp section. My Gigmaster head only has 3 tubes 2xEL84's and 1 12AX7. I want an IB already and I think I will get one.

I love my gigmaster though....great amp IMHO.


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## BillNephew (Jan 24, 2013)

Wow. Those cleans are pretty nice. Not as good as my Carvin x100B's cleans though  The distortion sounds REALLY good for a 20 watt head though. My only gripe is it doesn't really seem to have as beefy of a low end because of the small wattage, but I get that same problem with my Blackstar HT-1R, so that's probably just normal with low watt tube amps.


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## Ryan (Jan 25, 2013)

I think it sounds amazing. But, it doesn't sound $1200 amazing.


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## flexkill (Jan 25, 2013)

Ryan said:


> I think it sounds amazing. But, it doesn't sound $1200 amazing.


It is steep....but someone will take the bate then tire of it....$700-$800 sounds good.


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## mindwalker (Jan 25, 2013)

More Ironball goodness!


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## zimbloth (Jan 25, 2013)

I hope you guys who are definitively judging the tone are at NAMM and have played it yourself. It sounds amazing.


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## mphsc (Jan 26, 2013)

if someone checks this thing out, please post thought, comments. Interested party here.


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## protest (Jan 29, 2013)

I just saw this and it reminded me of this thread.


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## zimbloth (Jan 29, 2013)

mphsc said:


> if someone checks this thing out, please post thought, comments. Interested party here.



There were like 200 people a minute coming to the ENGL Booth at NAMM to play this amp and everyone was blown away. Definitely one of the best new amps they've come out with in a while IMO. I hope some others who were at the show can chime in too. They're coming out in March though, so by then people will know the deal.


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## guitarneeraj (Jan 31, 2013)

I completely agree with Nick, people just don't understand what goes into making a high-end amp. For instance consider the output transformer. I'm not taking a dig at MIC either but it's not at all elitist to say that Made in Germany/UK (or the US for that matter) is better quality, otherwise we wouldn't have the Neves, SSLs, Telefunkens, etc selling for ridiculously high prices. It' ALL about the quality. A good quality European-made OT like a Lundahl is much more expensive than a chinese transformer made in a shack by a farmer. 

Very interesting amp though, would love to try it out. I wonder how it compares with the Mini Recto. I figure the gain structure has to be totally different from the Gigmaster, hence it's more expensive. Also the IB has the internal power soak option, only a good thing IMO since power attenuators work really well with low-wattage amps.


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## guy in latvia (Jan 31, 2013)

Silly people, I have a 20w power amp and that thing is insanely loud... Cornford makes low wattage amps that cost more than that too.

Very interested to hear this in person. For those who have tried it, how does it sound compared to other engl amps? What worries me most is that the "ball" line are typically very scooped and super compressed sounding.


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## pawel (Jan 31, 2013)

guitarneeraj said:


> chinese transformer made in a shack by a farmer



If anything, it's the European products that are made in a (well-equipped) shack by (highly skilled) farmers.


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## guitarneeraj (Jan 31, 2013)

pawel said:


> If anything, it's the European products that are made in a (well-equipped) shack by (highly skilled) farmers.





Ummm.......


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## zimbloth (Jan 31, 2013)

guy in latvia said:


> Silly people, I have a 20w power amp and that thing is insanely loud... Cornford makes low wattage amps that cost more than that too.
> 
> Very interested to hear this in person. For those who have tried it, how does it sound compared to other engl amps? What worries me most is that the "ball" line are typically very scooped and super compressed sounding.



Its not at all scooped or compressed like the Powerball honestly. Its really thick and ballsy, with nice lead tones, but still with that super tight response. It reminds me more of a mix between the Fireball 100 and Blackmore.


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## mindwalker (Jan 31, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> Its not at all scooped or compressed like the Powerball honestly. Its really thick and ballsy, with nice lead tones, but still with that super tight response. It reminds me more of a mix between the Fireball 100 and Blackmore.



With so many people checking the amp out in NAAM, there's only 2-3 silly videos of it on youtube!!! But well I guess with a standard phone, any footage would sound like a frying pan 

Can't wait to see one up close or more good videos of it!


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## Andromalia (Jan 31, 2013)

NAMM 2014: SteelBalls SE Manowar Signature.

CANCELED - the band says: "it's too small. Rename it SteelBall and check Lance Armstrong Maybe ?"


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## pawel (Jan 31, 2013)

guitarneeraj said:


> Ummm.......



I wasn't knocking European/US production (or Chinese production for that matter). My point was that, on the whole, the way European manufacturers currently compete with Chinese ones is by producing smaller quantities of high-quality products made by small highly-qualified workforces. You pay for the QC, the sourcing of components, the workers who have done this for years. By contrast, Chinese manufacturers focus on high volume/low cost. It's definitely not a farmer in a shed, we're talking giant factories producing large numbers of units a day. 

In no way representative, but:

Lundahl Transformers - Contact us

vs.

Zhejiang Minyang Transformer Co., Ltd. - oil immersed transformer,dry type power transformer
Dongguan Liqin Revertex Product Co., Ltd. - transformer,toroidal transformer,power transformer
Guangzhou Yufeng Trade Co., Ltd. - Tube Amplifier, Audio Transformer, Vacuum Tube


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## guitarneeraj (Feb 1, 2013)

pawel said:


> I wasn't knocking European/US production (or Chinese production for that matter). My point was that, on the whole, the way European manufacturers currently compete with Chinese ones is by producing smaller quantities of high-quality products made by small highly-qualified workforces. You pay for the QC, the sourcing of components, the workers who have done this for years. By contrast, Chinese manufacturers focus on high volume/low cost. It's definitely not a farmer in a shed, we're talking giant factories producing large numbers of units a day.
> 
> In no way representative, but:
> 
> ...



I have to beg to differ and give you some factual data, because I know for a fact that not only Chinese, but all "low-cost" transformer manufacturers try to avoid using high-quality materials, simply because the parts they are manufacturing are just not meant to be used for hi-fi audio, studio gear, or other such applications where quality is actually a performance metric. For example, the material used for the laminations in such transformers is a low-carbon steel and usually not CRGO (cold rolled grain oriented) silicon steel, which has a high permeability and hence is favorable for transformer laminations, but also is much more expensive. But audio companies use these low-quality parts anyway, obviously to maximise profits on a mass production scale.

There are many technical papers on the internet about transformer manufacture design considerations, and this is really off-topic from OP so I would prefer not to discuss this any more. If you're interested, please PM me and I will give you all the info you need about transformer manufacturing.

And with regards to your example, Lundahl has been known to provide transformers for lots of studio gear, including really really high-end mic-pre's, the kind that common people like you and me would have to sell a kidney to afford. The chinese manufacturer, on the other hand, is listed on an e-marketplace and does not provide any sort of datasheets or technical documents, which invalidates the quality in the first place, IMHO. (Did I just try to justify why Lundahl is better than some obscure Chinese manufacturer?  )


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## pawel (Feb 1, 2013)

guitarneeraj said:


> ...



I don't think we're disagreeing - I never claimed that average Chinese transformer production in any way approaches the quality of average European production. My point was simply that Chinese production is generally high-volume compared to the EU, so saying that Chinese transformers are made in a shack by a farmer is not quite fair.

My comment about the Lundahl factory looking more like a farmers shack was of course a joke, but, purely in terms of scale (once again, not quality!), it's the European producers that are likely to be closer to "a farmer in a shack". I am not sure if I can find any stats on the number of transformers shipped, but I am guessing that the output of any of the companies on Alibaba dwarfs the number of transformers Lundahl ships in a given year.


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## zimbloth (Feb 1, 2013)

Okay this thread has gotten really silly. Bottom line: The Ironball sounds incredible as anyone who was at NAMM would attest to. Its one of the finest in ENGL's lineup irregardless of price. In my opinion it absolutely smokes the Mini-Recto and any other of its contemporaries, including ones we also carry at my store like the mini H&Ks and Oranges. It's not a knock on those, but it's just the reality of how I see it. Its not a "lunch-box" amp, it just looks like one. This is a serious pro product. 

And again, no one is disparaging made in China amps, just pointing out the (should be obvious) reality that a German made ENGL all tube amp is going to cost more to produce and have higher quality components, hence the higher price. It is what it is. 

ENGL actually though about pricing it a little lower to directly compete with the Mini-Recto and similar products, but they felt strongly that it was a vastly superior product and didnt want to skimp in any way. They're confident once people start playing these in stores that people will be glad they stuck to their guns. Obviously if its too expensive for some, then so be it. There's always the used market, b-stocks, etc.


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## exclamation-mark (Feb 1, 2013)

It's actually kind of funny when you look inside an engl amp - The things are full of those generic brand yellow MKT capacitors (they're probably some sort of name brand, but still very, very cheap)! They also tend to use axicom telecom relays that are under a buck each (probably expensive compared to generic brand stuff though). 

One thing I find particularly heinous is the use of 1/4 watt resistors literally everywhere in the signal path, as well as the fact that they appear to be carbon film (instead of metal film - impossible to tell for sure from visual inspection, though). 1/4 watt is really pushing it for a plate resistor, yet many manufacturers (including peavey and engl) do it. Technically, it's still somewhat safe since they typically only dissipate 0.1 to 0.2 watts, depending on bias, but that's still enough to push the temperature past 100 degrees C (depending on ambient temperature). 

Increased temperature means increased thermal noise (which is pretty important in a high gain amplifier with numerical gain figures in the MILLIONS). The fact that they're only 1/4 watt resistors increases the contact noise compared to higher wattage resistors, and assuming that they're using carbon film instead of metal film increases both contact AND shot noise (I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone that this is bad). Ever wonder where that HISSSSSS was coming from? Now you know...

Now to top it all off, most of the components (even though I assume they're of reputable brands) were most likely manufactured china or south-east asia anyway. Vishay/Sprague, Vishay Dale, T.E Connectivity, Bourns, Ohmite, etc are all companies I would consider top notch. Nearly every single one of them have huge manufacturing operations in Taiwan, China, Indonesia and Thailand. I think it's largely irrelevant where anything is produced (from an electrical components perspective). Parts is parts. It's up to the engineer to decide the rest (assuming manufacturers don't lie in their datasheets!). I'll say this doesn't apply to audio (output) transformers though - they're some sort of black art that lies outside of all engineering logic.

TL;DR - ENGL's look the same as a Bugera on the inside.


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## mcleanab (Feb 1, 2013)

^^

So has anyone ever changed the above mentioned components to their better counterparts? What was the result? (sorry, I know this is a bit off topic...) Just curious...

(I happen to LOVE my e530 by the way... if there's a way to make it more reliable, I'd be open to the possibilities...)


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## exclamation-mark (Feb 1, 2013)

mcleanab said:


> ^^
> 
> So has anyone ever changed the above mentioned components to their better counterparts? What was the result? (sorry, I know this is a bit off topic...) Just curious...
> 
> (I happen to LOVE my e530 by the way... if there's a way to make it more reliable, I'd be open to the possibilities...)



I'd say my post was already way off topic anyway >_>

Concerning replacing any parts... I doubt you'd hear any difference or gain any appreciable reliability from it (it might be a teensy little bit quieter with higher wattage metal films). I personally wouldn't bother unless you were making a clone or something. I'm not too fussy with capacitor brands either - as long as they're some sort of plastic film they all sound pretty much the same to my ears. I think big volume manufacturers figured this out eons ago, and hence why those yellow mkt caps are so prevalent in marshall/peavey/engl/fender/bugera/whatever else brand amplifiers today. 

On topic: amp sounds pretty beastly from the namm videos, but I'd like to hear one mic'd up properly!


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## guitarneeraj (Feb 1, 2013)

I don't want to seem like a know-it-all dick so I'm not going to write anything off-topic on this thread.


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## MetalDaze (Feb 1, 2013)

Hey Nick,

So, if someone already owned a PB100, is there anything compelling that would make this a must have (other than plain old GAS)?


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## zimbloth (Feb 2, 2013)

MetalDaze said:


> Hey Nick,
> 
> So, if someone already owned a PB100, is there anything compelling that would make this a must have (other than plain old GAS)?



Yeah, it sounds better than the Powerball. In my personal opinion the Powerball II is the least impressive amp ENGL makes. Been pretty vocal about that opinion for years now. I never understood why the PB is the default ENGL people always try. It's cool and all, but as an ENGL fan who uses them live and a dealer who gets to play them side by side constantly, it doesnt compare to the rest of the lineup. Not for my tastes anyway.

ENGLs I really like more than the Powerball include the: Invader, Savage, Fireball 100, Blackmore, Retro 100, Steve Morse, and the Special Edition (but ironically despite the price I like the SE the least of this group). The Victor Smolski model which is based off the Powerball but improved upon I do like as well, but I find installing warmer pre-amp tubes (such as the JJ ECC83S Gold Pin in v1) really helps eliminate some of the graininess and gives it a punchier sound.

The Ironball has the tightness of the Powerball (or all ENGLs), but with a thicker, warmer sound like the Fireball or Invader has. I'd take an Ironball over a Powerball anyday. So I'd say, if you're a Powerball owner, you'd love the Ironball.


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## pawel (Feb 2, 2013)

To take the thread back on topic (since I contributed to it going OT in the first place), when I get around to amp shopping in the next few months this is likely to be one of the potential candidates, although the smaller Randall Diavlo amps look like a tempting low-cost alternative (albeit a single channel one). I can imagine Engl will be much easier to get hold of in Germany than the Randall though.


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## MetalDaze (Feb 2, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> Yeah, it sounds better than the Powerball. In my personal opinion the Powerball II is the least impressive amp ENGL makes. Been pretty vocal about that opinion for years now. I never understood why the PB is the default ENGL people always try. It's cool and all, but as an ENGL fan who uses them live and a dealer who gets to play them side by side constantly, it doesnt compare to the rest of the lineup. Not for my tastes anyway.
> 
> ENGLs I really like more than the Powerball include the: Invader, Savage, Fireball 100, Blackmore, Retro 100, Steve Morse, and the Special Edition (but ironically despite the price I like the SE the least of this group). The Victor Smolski model which is based off the Powerball but improved upon I do like as well, but I find installing warmer pre-amp tubes (such as the JJ ECC83S Gold Pin in v1) really helps eliminate some of the graininess and gives it a punchier sound.
> 
> The Ironball has the tightness of the Powerball (or all ENGLs), but with a thicker, warmer sound like the Fireball or Invader has. I'd take an Ironball over a Powerball anyday. So I'd say, if you're a Powerball owner, you'd love the Ironball.



Crap. I said PB100 but meant FB100.


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## zimbloth (Feb 2, 2013)

MetalDaze said:


> Crap. I said PB100 but meant FB100.



Yeah it's much more along those lines but definitely not as dark as the FB100. Just a really great sound man. The ENGL booth was packed with dudes drooling over it. It was one of the best amps we heard at the show. Really liked the new Diezel D-Moll and those Rhoads amps which I had never heard prior.


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## Justin_Blackened (Feb 3, 2013)

This head looks awesome. I love all these low watt heads Cant wait for some VS mini recto video s


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## SkullCrusher (Feb 24, 2013)

Engl Ironball Head 20 - Thomann UK Cyberstore

I don't think that's a bad price for Europe.

Just wish it had a wood/tolex box not metal


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## robertkoa (Feb 25, 2013)

Yeah sounds very very good to me so far.

Nice fat cleans or scooped cleans and with the Boost on the Cleans,.a whole other Range of Tones.

I'd like to hear less Gain on the Rhythm/Lead Channel since I don't do Metal but I heard an EJ type
tone on one Demo and I'd like to hear some mid gain stuff on Channel 2.

Sounds fatter than most EL84 Amps.

The Competition for this Amp would be the 

Mesa Mini Rectifier -which is $1000.

I seriously doubt if the cheaper $200 -600 lunchbox Amps

can FULLY hang with either Ironball or Mesa Mini Rec .


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## robertkoa (Feb 25, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> Yeah it's much more along those lines but definitely not as dark as the FB100. Just a really great sound man. The ENGL booth was packed with dudes drooling over it. It was one of the best amps we heard at the show. Really liked the new Diezel D-Moll and those Rhoads amps which I had never heard prior.



Zim- I was listening to the Demos, surprised by the super clean OR fatter cleans and the boosted singing Cleans on this -maybe the best Clean Channel on an ENGL ?

As I said I heard one guy get an EJ tone in a Demo but can this little Head also do some smooth 80s Rock Tones easily.

Also sounds warm enough for even Jazz tones?

Little hard to be sure from just Demos but am I getting this right ?

Kind of like a Mini Recto with more clarity ?

I hate graininess but only need about as much Gain as EJ, Gilmour, Blackmore-

Will Ironball do this with clear Gain [ no graininess ] ?


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## zimbloth (Feb 28, 2013)

robertkoa said:


> Zim- I was listening to the Demos, surprised by the super clean OR fatter cleans and the boosted singing Cleans on this -maybe the best Clean Channel on an ENGL ?
> 
> As I said I heard one guy get an EJ tone in a Demo but can this little Head also do some smooth 80s Rock Tones easily.
> 
> ...



Yes its a very punchy, warm, yet clear amp that has a wide range of usable gain stages. This is not like a Mini-Recto, its in a whole other league in my opinion and sounds as good as the full size ENGL heads in every way. I actually like it better than the Powerball frankly. Its more like a combination of the Fireball and the Blackmore, with its own touch.


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## 1b4n3z (Feb 28, 2013)

Here in Europe the choice is a no-brainer. Mesa Mini at 1333 euros vs. Ironball - 888 euros? I'll have two please 

EDIT: Mesa had responded to competition - Mini Recto goes for 1290 euros. Guess Mesa isn't very interested in the European market?


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## Workhorse (Oct 6, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> I think people have seriously mistaken what the Ironball is. This is a German made serious high-end tube amp, its not a cheap made in China amp like the Orange Micro Terror. It's meant for professional recording, gigging, rehearsals. It's not a mass-produced bedroom amp. It is however a much less expensive alternate to a full-size ENGL head. I guarantee this thing would smoke any of its mini-head contemporaries. If on a tighter budget the Orange, HK, Egnator, etc are nice alternatives but they're not capable of the tone or performance that this can bring.



i know I am late as .... to the party but I have been checking this thing out. It is absolutely insane, nothing in its size compares (at least to what I have played).


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## Workhorse (Oct 6, 2013)

flexkill said:


> It is steep....but someone will take the bate then tire of it....$700-$800 sounds good.



I am thinking if we wait a while, you can get it for that price. I wouldn't pay $1200 for it, but thats because of my budget and not the quality of the amp head (it is extremely high quality and the design is awesome). I think its the perfect thing for a practice session but can also be ready made for a gig or recording.


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> i know I am late as .... to the party but I have been checking this thing out. It is absolutely insane, nothing in its size compares (at least to what I have played).



In my honest to God opinion the Ironball is one of the very best sounding amps on the market _irregardless _of price or size. If more people had a chance to try these out (and could afford them), I think it would be taking over the world. It smokes everything else in its price range and even 99% of amps that cost twice as much. Everyone who has come down and tried one has geeked out over it. If only their Gigmaster was 1% as good as this thing. 

I do wish it cost less, but its a serious professional amp made in Germany, and its 2013, so you cant win 'em all


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## 1b4n3z (Oct 7, 2013)

Dammit these testimonies make me really question my decision to go with Mesa Mini.. I love the tones but not so much the fact, that it's not really an apartment-friendly amp without some extra expenses.. I did try the Ironball at the store, but they only had Marshall cabs with T75's, and my rig at home is quite a bit different from them. 

I guess I'll have to get one pretty soon regardless - they should be quite affordable used, once people have completed their trimonthly GAS cycle and they start popping up locally :> They're pretty cheap here in Europe, should be no more than &#8364;650 used (Mesa Minis go for &#8364;900-&#8364;1000)


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## mindwalker (Oct 8, 2013)

Let me tell you.. I've tried the ironball and it's quite loud unless it's running at 1 watt mode. And even then you will have the master set low  
But yeah it can be apartment friendly


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## Workhorse (Oct 8, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> In my honest to God opinion the Ironball is one of the very best sounding amps on the market _irregardless _of price or size. If more people had a chance to try these out (and could afford them), I think it would be taking over the world. It smokes everything else in its price range and even 99% of amps that cost twice as much. Everyone who has come down and tried one has geeked out over it. If only their Gigmaster was 1% as good as this thing.
> 
> I do wish it cost less, but its a serious professional amp made in Germany, and its 2013, so you cant win 'em all



What kind of cabinet would be best for it? I totally believe you, I tried that thing out and was completely taken aback by how powerful it was. Sensational amp.


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## Workhorse (Oct 8, 2013)

1b4n3z said:


> Dammit these testimonies make me really question my decision to go with Mesa Mini.. I love the tones but not so much the fact, that it's not really an apartment-friendly amp without some extra expenses.. I did try the Ironball at the store, but they only had Marshall cabs with T75's, and my rig at home is quite a bit different from them.
> 
> I guess I'll have to get one pretty soon regardless - they should be quite affordable used, once people have completed their trimonthly GAS cycle and they start popping up locally :> They're pretty cheap here in Europe, should be no more than 650 used (Mesa Minis go for 900-1000)



Yes I am definitely waiting till used models come out and are $900 or less. Also, any big time sales events might have great offers.


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## zimbloth (Oct 8, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> What kind of cabinet would be best for it? I totally believe you, I tried that thing out and was completely taken aback by how powerful it was. Sensational amp.



I like using it with a nice 2x12, such as the ones from ENGL, Orange, Fryette, or similar quality cabinets. It sounds killer through 4x12s also of course. The demo unit we have at our shop is currently plugged into a Fryette Fatbottom 2x12. It would appear you're in Massachusetts as well? Check it out, you can plug it into any cabinets you want and see how it fairs with different types of speakers. We often can discount the demo units by the way.


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## Workhorse (Oct 8, 2013)

zimbloth said:


> I like using it with a nice 2x12, such as the ones from ENGL, Orange, Fryette, or similar quality cabinets. It sounds killer through 4x12s also of course. The demo unit we have at our shop is currently plugged into a Fryette Fatbottom 2x12. It would appear you're in Massachusetts as well? Check it out, you can plug it into any cabinets you want and see how it fairs with different types of speakers. We often can discount the demo units by the way.



I've been wanting to go to your shop for ages man, definitely going to get around to doing that. Thanks!


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## CaymanSMC (Oct 27, 2013)

I have had my Ironball for about 2 months and it amazes me every time I play it. I agree with everything zimbloth has said about it. I have owned about every major amp brand made over the years and the Ironball just sounds good !!! This is the first ENGL I have owned.

It is very touch sensitive which lets you easily change the sound with your picking dynamics. 

It has a huge amount of gain available even in the clean channel so you will not need any boost or overdrive pedals. Even with high gain it is very quiet when muted.

If all you play is clean then the Ironball is not a good choice. If you want an Amp that has a great crunch and screams on lead this is it.


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