# NGD - Yet another JPXI-7, plus QC Dilemma



## tjrlogan (Jul 5, 2011)

So after a month of insanely epic gear whoring, I have a brand new Ernie Ball MusicMan JPXI-7 in my possession...

*First the pics (sorry for the smudges):*















































*Now my summary:*

I love the guitar. It's feels great (the neck is super thin, but this took 5 minutes to get used to) and sounds great. I'm no expert player nor critic, so I won't bother saying more that that....a few other guys have written better reviews on it here than I can possibly do. 

*And my Quality Control dilemma:*

If you look at the pictures posted below of the side of the fretboard, you'll see that there are some imperfections. The finish work at the edge of the fretboard is a bit sloppy in some areas. It's nothing bad and doesn't affect playability, it's just kinda rough looking...like someone was filing the frets and they slipped over the edge of the fretboard and roughed up the finish a little. 

The worst thing I noticed is that there's a fairly noticeable scratch/mark/indent on the under the low B string by the nut that goes all the way to the edge and leaves a tiny groove where the finish meets the fretboard . Again, it doesn't affect playability and I'm probably the only one who'll ever see it, but it's a brand new guitar. 

*Update: After considering all your responses....I contacted Customer Service and sent them pics. They've volunteered to either have me ship it back to them for repairs under warranty or send a replacement to Guitar Center. I'm in the process of arranging for the replacement ;-) *











Here's the groove:





That white spot on the edge of the fretboard between the nut and the first fret is an little indent chip in the finish:










Please note that my intent is not to start a flame war against Ernie Ball or any other company. I'm just torn. I know it's hard to find a perfect guitar anywhere, and I do plan to play this guitar and it will end up with battle scars anyway. I also know another member recently had similar issues with his JPXI, but unlike him I am not a working musician and can afford to be without the guitar for a month or two.


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## simulclass83 (Jul 5, 2011)

If it really bothers you call them up. But I've heard some things about EBMM repair. 
IF you can live with it, I'm sure it plays great, so why not?


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## tjrlogan (Jul 5, 2011)

simulclass83 said:


> If it really bothers you call them up. But I've heard some things about EBMM repair.
> IF you can live with it, I'm sure it plays great, so why not?



Just curious...what have you heard about their repair?


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 5, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> *Now my summary:*
> 
> I love the guitar. It's feels great (the neck is super thin, but this took 5 minutes to get used to) and sounds great. I'm no expert player nor critic, so I won't bother saying more that that....a few other guys have written better reviews on it here than I can possibly do.
> 
> ...





LOL, pretty much the exact same thing that happened to my JPXI7- the, QC is a joke. Here's my thread on it: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/se...-customer-service-whats-fair.html#post2524194 (my pics are about half-way down)

You're going to have to contact EB/MM CS and send your guitar back to get it fixed. It will take "over a month" because it has to fit into their production schedule; They won't just give you a new neck that's laying around ready to go. 

Two threads like this already, not good.


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## cyril v (Jul 5, 2011)

Congrats on the guitar, I just got mine recently as well, but mine was absolutely flawless, and for what I paid for it I wouldn't have accepted it in any other condition. It's only fault is that it is possibly too awesome for words! 

If you bought it from a dealer, I'd definitely let them know about that and see what they're willing to do for you. If it were mine, I'd definitely ask for in this order either a replacement>refund>discounted price. You didn't pay for a B-stock, so don't be willing to accept one.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 5, 2011)

Personally, when paying that much for a guitar I would expect nothing less than perfect. Even though I imagine that axe plays and sounds like a dream, I'de send it back while you still can to get an impeccable one. If, god forbid, you would ever want/have to sell it those flaws will damage the trade value.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 5, 2011)

I just contacted EBMM's customer service and they asked for pics. I sent the pics above and stated that I would "hate to return the guitar for a full refund...what can you do?" 

Let's see what they say....you guys are right, for the price I paid, I should get quality. The guys at the GC in Winter Park Florida (Ross especially) went through hoops to get me this guitar and get me a good deal on it. Returning it is a last option for me as I will feel bad and it's not really their fault. I want to see if EBMM can deal with it. 

Uncreative123...it sucks that you had the same problem dude. I hope it's getting fixed. BTW...you were the person I was referring in the first post.


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## WillDfx (Jul 5, 2011)

Again, I'll vouch for the qualify of mine. It came flawless and has remained that way thus far. I do however feel pretty terrible for those who have had these issues. I personally think that when you pay $2,600 for a guitar you shouldn't have to deal with pathetic issues such as these. We could all expect this from Squire's or LTD's, but I mean come on we're talking about EBMM here! I think we all expect way more than this from them.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 5, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> I just contacted EBMM's customer service and they asked for pics. I sent the pics above and stated that I would "hate to return the guitar for a full refund...what can you do?"
> 
> Let's see what they say....you guys are right, for the price I paid, I should get quality. The guys at the GC in Winter Park Florida (Ross especially) went through hoops to get me this guitar and get me a good deal on it. Returning it is a last option for me as I will feel bad and it's not really their fault. I want to see if EBMM can deal with it.
> 
> Uncreative123...it sucks that you had the same problem dude. I hope it's getting fixed. BTW...you were the person I was referring in the first post.



lol, I missed the last paragraph you wrote under all the pics. Hopefully they'll realize this wasn't an isolated incident and they can correct the problem rather than having to deal with all of these returns.


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## exordium (Jul 5, 2011)

Beautiful guitar, shame about the flaws. Hope it works out and they fix it up.


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## caskettheclown (Jul 5, 2011)

If that was me i'd just get over it but i'm not familiar with the price of these guitars


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 5, 2011)

caskettheclown said:


> If that was me i'd just get over it but i'm not familiar with the price of these guitars



Currently about $2600 for the 7 string version. 

I would not accept anything less than perfection at that price, personally. And as I said in uncreative123's thread, I wouldn't expect to have issues like that on a new guitar that cost substantially less than that either. They're not really issues when it comes to playability, but it would always bug me to see those imperfections there knowing I bought it brand new.

I'm sorry to see that this happened again to someone else on these boards. I'd send that shit back for a repair/replacement ASAP.


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## haffner1 (Jul 5, 2011)

I would send it back. Especially for the prices they charge for those things. If it were a 500 - 1K korean guitar, that would be different, but you ought to be paying for perfection at those prices.


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## Sebastian (Jul 5, 2011)

love the finish!
Big congrats


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## Rook (Jul 5, 2011)

GAAAAAH I want so bad, my JPX is amazing.

As for the finish, I'd probably have done what you did, mine's spotless and their customer service really is very good if you're polite and to the point. If you get all up in their face they'll lose interest unless it's a warranty thing.

See what they can do, some of it will probably buff out.


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## Sepultorture (Jul 5, 2011)

dude if you buy a ball family reserve guitar you bloody well better get golden tits i return, not some mistakes, i expect this from production stuff, but not the Ball famliry Reserve line of Music Man axes, i'd call and complain ASAP


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## AvantGuardian (Jul 5, 2011)

Man, that is such a beautiful guitar, but I'm with everyone who's saying at that price point, this is unacceptable. Its too bad these guitars are so tough to come by that you have to buy them sight unseen. Hopefully EBMM will make it right for you.


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## HighGain510 (Jul 5, 2011)

As long as you report it immediately and have it fixed immediately, you're good. If you're within 30 days, GC should foot the bill on shipping it back to EBMM and let them reimburse GC for the shipping later since it's still absolutely within the 30 day warranty. The other poster waited over a month before he contacted them so he didn't have as much power in the situation, if they try to charge you for anything to get this fixed just tell them you're going to return it for a full refund. They'll probably do the right thing, just DO NOT WAIT.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks guys. I called EBMM a couple of hours ago and sent them pics of the issue. I'm currently awaiting their response. Will keep you updated on this thread. 

I got the guitar exactly 1 week ago (last Tuesday). I really didn't notice the issues when I picked up the guitar from the store (call it excitement, lighting, etc)....BUT I did see them as soon as I got home. I figured I'd live with it initially, but every time I picked up the guitar since then I'd see the flaws and get that sinking feeling. 

I'm now crossing my fingers.....


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## Santuzzo (Jul 5, 2011)

Awesome guitar, and sorry to read about those flaws.

I gotta agree with what most others said here, for that kind of guitar you pay quite a price and you should expect a flawless guitar. 

I hope this gets solved ok for you!


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## Mukersman (Jul 5, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> What would JP do?





He would probably just order 20 more guitars. Or play so fast their kneecaps break.

on topic: hope you get that cleared up soon!


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## AySay (Jul 5, 2011)

You're going to have to look through the excitement of NGD OMGJP7AHHHHHHHHFUCKKKKKKK!!!!!!111!!!! and do what's right. I've been through the same situation (with a JP7), and same thought process. 
1) YAY NGD
2)Whas dis? Don't like this flaw.
3) The guitar is soo cool, i think i'll just deal with it.
4) a few weeks/months later after the "honeymoon" period, you realize that it is wrong to accept any sort of production flaws on a high end guitar from a company that prides itself on quality.

I think that even if you might feel that you can deal with it, you shouldn't have to. You paid for a top of the line, high end guitar. That is what you should get.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 5, 2011)

Mukersman said:


> He would probably just order 20 more guitars. Or play so fast their kneecaps break.


 

Hheheheh! You got it! 

I was thinking JP would just do some fast runs up and down the neck until his hands just naturally buff the finish out.


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## fps (Jul 5, 2011)

Dude send it back. That kinda money and it has FLAWS in it that YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH!? Jeez if I spent that on a guitar I'd never be getting another one like it, this is a dream, a relationship with an instrument you're entering into, a partnership for life, and they haven't made sure that it's PERFECT? I'm not being sarcastic, send it back for another one, that's shoddy stuff, and don't take no for an answer.


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## killertone (Jul 5, 2011)

If my last name was on a guitar I would be embarrassed of the flaws that you have posted. Especially at the price point and supposed level of luthiery. If they are proud of what they do, they should immediately rectify that situation in the most expedient method possible.


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## SirMyghin (Jul 6, 2011)

Looks great dude, the dent is a pretty big flaw, but the finish being rough on the edge of the fretboard, is something I would consider a little common for boards finished up to the top edge. The board is going to move/contract/expand and it is in the end just masked off. A reason I really don't like when the finish stops at that location, always looks 'rough' imo.


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## littledoc (Jul 6, 2011)

I'll join the chorus in that since this is the second time this sort of issue has popped up on this forum, it's not an isolated incident. At the price these guitars fetch, any dings, nicks, scratches or blemishes that are there when you first open the case warrant an immediate return of the guitar for a refund or replacement.


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## Church2224 (Jul 6, 2011)

Sepultorture said:


> dude if you buy a ball family reserve guitar you bloody well better get golden tits i return, not some mistakes, i expect this from production stuff, but not the Ball famliry Reserve line of Music Man axes, i'd call and complain ASAP



Dude production guitars never have these sort of problems either.

First off Guitar Center should not have sold that guitar to you in the first place. I would be pissed at them for one thing for selling it to you. Granted they are not Music Man's Quality control experts but they should still have sent it back to Music Man like some other stores do. If they do sell it to you they should at least tell you and give you a damn good discount. Other stores do that why didn't they?

Secondly you did the right thing contacting EBMM hopefully they can sort this sort of thing out and get it fixed. I bet they might either swap out the neck, rebuild you a new one, or buff it out somehow and refinish it. When you get the chance send it to them or go to Guitar Center and ask for a refund.

It is a shame this is the second time that we have seen this coming from the BFR line. And have we ever seen this from their production models? Hopefully this is just a few isolated incidents and soon EBMM will be on the right track with better quality control...


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## Lasik124 (Jul 6, 2011)

Looks great, congrats


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## ghost2II2 (Jul 6, 2011)

Glad to see you contacted Ernie Ball. It's rare to get something like this from them, but if it were me, I would not have settled. They'll take care of ya, man. They have fantastic customer service. By the way, beautiful guitar!


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## Sepultorture (Jul 6, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Dude production guitars never have these sort of problems either.
> 
> First off Guitar Center should not have sold that guitar to you in the first place. I would be pissed at them for one thing for selling it to you. Granted they are not Music Man's Quality control experts but they should still have sent it back to Music Man like some other stores do. If they do sell it to you they should at least tell you and give you a damn good discount. Other stores do that why didn't they?
> 
> ...



I said i expect it, i sure as fuck still wouldn't accept it


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## Church2224 (Jul 6, 2011)

Sepultorture said:


> I said i expect it, i sure as fuck still wouldn't accept it



lol same. Hell I never seen this on 700 dollar Schecters and LTDs, let alone a 2500 dollar Music Man. We have never seen this on a production Music Man either, which is just off!


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## cyril v (Jul 6, 2011)

Someone derp'd up pretty hard on these two guitars, I figured when I got mine and saw the certificate of authenticity that was handsigned, that it wasn't a rubber stamp job and the guitar was actually inspected... guess not, eh?


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## tjrlogan (Jul 6, 2011)

So I got this reply today:

_"Hi TJ,_
_It looks like something that we can definitely fix, but it would have to come back to the factory in San Luis Obispo, California. If you do want to send it back to us, let me know and I can issue you a Return Authorization number. This would be covered under warranty so you would just have to pay to ship it to us. If you do want to return it to Guitar Center, we actually have one of those in stock right now here at the factory that we could send to the store as a replacement if you want. Let me know how we can help resolve this problem. Thanks for choosing Music Man."_

I'm gonna go for a replacement and have them ship it to the Guitar Center. What do you guys think?


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## cyril v (Jul 6, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> So I got this reply today:
> 
> _"Hi TJ,_
> _It looks like something that we can definitely fix, but it would have to come back to the factory in San Luis Obispo, California. If you do want to send it back to us, let me know and I can issue you a Return Authorization number. This would be covered under warranty so you would just have to pay to ship it to us. If you do want to return it to Guitar Center, we actually have one of those in stock right now here at the factory that we could send to the store as a replacement if you want. Let me know how we can help resolve this problem. Thanks for choosing Music Man."_
> ...



Just make sure they inspect it first  

+1 for replacement.


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 6, 2011)

+2 on replacement, it'll be handled quicker and you won't have to pay return shipping.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 6, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> +2 on replacement, it'll be handled quicker and you won't have to pay return shipping.



And you won't lose out on a guitar for months


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## tjrlogan (Jul 6, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> And you won't lose out on a guitar for months


 
Yeah...I have to admit that they've handled it well so far. I thought they would insist that I send it back to them and think it's awesome of them to send me a replacement.

They probably offered me this since I only had the guitar a week and was within my return time....I do feel kinda bad that Uncreative123 wasn't given this option and all the best goes out to him. 

But nothing is final yet....Guitar Center now has to contact EBMM and make all the arrangements, so it's another waiting game. Both companies have been doing a great job at handling this so far though.


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## Maklin (Jul 6, 2011)

Very nice!!!!


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## Whitestrat (Jul 6, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> I'm gonna go for a replacement and have them ship it to the Guitar Center. What do you guys think?


 
Replacement... Don't bother with repairs. No point waiting. It's a BFR. If my JPX7 had this I'd be upset too!

But don't worry, you're in good hands. EBMM customer service is really one of the best out there.


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## sell2792 (Jul 7, 2011)

For that much money, and even for a lot less, it should be in perfect condition from the factory. I can feel for you man, and I hope that you can get it replaced/fixed asap. Personally I'd exchange it to avoid dealing with EBMM and to have the guitar back in my hands as quick as possible.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 7, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Yeah...I have to admit that they've handled it well so far. I thought they would insist that I send it back to them and think it's awesome of them to send me a replacement.
> 
> They probably offered me this since I only had the guitar a week and was within my return time....I do feel kinda bad that Uncreative123 wasn't given this option and all the best goes out to him.
> 
> But nothing is final yet....Guitar Center now has to contact EBMM and make all the arrangements, so it's another waiting game. Both companies have been doing a great job at handling this so far though.




It's not a big deal at all. I mean I basically got the same deal as you- other than them having one in stock that they can send me. I'll just have to wait the 4-5 weeks for them to do a new neck. 

I do feel like the certificate signatures are worthless/meaningless now and the guitars aren't even looked over by Sterling, but I also think it's just as bad that the place I (and you) got the guitar from didn't say anything about it.


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## Rook (Jul 8, 2011)

^^Try having a chat with them on the EB forum, Sterling posts on there regularly, and does actually overlook guitars. He obviously can't check 'em all he's a busy guy, but chances are _a_ Ball will have seen your guitar at some stage. Marking on the finish due to fret job is unfortunate, but I do sorta expect it, dents in the wood could have happened after the factory? Who knows, but from having dealt with EB from a trade stance and as an end user, I can say with confidence they're very good at Customer Service, and a lot better than most.

Not sticking up for them or detracting from a crap situation though, I'd be beside myself. I ordered a new RR1 about 4 years ago and when it arrived the MOP 1st fret inlay was cracked right up the middle (though it hadn't broken off) and I was so gutted. I'd also bought it from the USA so it wasn't worth sending back, I've just gotten to live with it. The guitar is definitely distinctive lol. I know it sucks though.

To the guy who said he'd never seen a $700 Schecter with flaws like that; Schecter, like LTD, Indo Ibanez and other lower end guitars are sooooo mass produced and run by big corporates, if a shop receives one with a flaw (which you do get often enough, trust me) it's dead easy to send back, so most shops just refuse them. Dean was particularly bad for this in my experience.


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## Az_Spirit_Crusher (Jul 8, 2011)

I love the finish. Big congrats!


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## jon66 (Jul 8, 2011)

Glad to see they're taking care of you dude! Congratz on the JPXI7!


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 9, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^^Try having a chat with them on the EB forum, Sterling posts on there regularly, and does actually overlook guitars. He obviously can't check 'em all he's a busy guy, but chances are _a_ Ball will have seen your guitar at some stage. *Marking on the finish due to fret job is unfortunate, but I do sorta expect it,* dents in the wood could have happened after the factory? Who knows, but from having dealt with EB from a trade stance and as an end user, I can say with confidence they're very good at Customer Service, and a lot better than most.




How do you know he overlooks guitars before they go out? Because he says he does? How can you say he does, then turn around and say 'he can't check them all 'cause he's busy' in the very next sentence? How can you say they have good customer service or customer relations when you personally have never dealt with them?
Even if he does inspect them, he does a horrible job. According to my hand-signed CoA it says he and two others 'inspected' AFTER production, but before it left. So that either 1) Makes him a liar or 2) Blind.

You can't post stuff like this on their forum because you will be told to contact CS and have your thread deleted. Sterling can't go one day without reminding everyone how privileged they are to read his posts. It's a joke- kind of like you saying you *'expect markings on the finish'* and suspecting it happened after it left the factory.


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 9, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> How can you say they have good customer service or customer relations when you personally have never dealt with them?



I agree with what you say about their inspection of the instruments, but if I remember right, I've seen him post on their forums about his dealings with their CS.


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## wavez1392 (Jul 9, 2011)

So awesome... Really would love to get my hands on one of those.


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## Furtive Glance (Jul 9, 2011)

If you DO bring it up on the EBMM forum you'll just get a wailing chorus of "Contact CS" and "EBMM ARE PERFECT WTFSTFU". That's why I will never post about issues there because the threads would just get locked ASAP, anyway. In their defence though, they A) take care of the problems and B) Most people that start threads title them shit like "OMG My Petrucci Guitar Is Broke   " and then they just go on a (usually) incomprehensible tirade of some sorts, so I can see why they lock them.


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## cyril v (Jul 9, 2011)

So do you think if he posted a thread with pics of his guitar, and a two sentence post basically saying, "hey, this is what my guitar looks like after their personal inspection and I want it rectified", do you think it would get deleted/locked? I'd hope it wouldn't get deleted/locked, but then again, I don't post there and I've only gone to that site when I was looking for specific information so I don't really know how it works there. 

Anyways, I hope you guys get your issues ironed out and they pull through for you,.. the company does have one of the better reputations on the block so if that is the case then we shall see.


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 9, 2011)

cyril v said:


> So do you think if he posted a thread with pics of his guitar, and a two sentence post basically saying, "hey, this is what my guitar looks like after their personal inspection and I want it rectified", do you think it would get deleted/locked?



More or less, it would get locked up. People who post QC issues and are looking for EBMM to rectify the problem are told to contact CS because they don't offer CS through their forums. 

Furtive Glance's description of the way people post about their problems there is actually quite typical from what I've seen, too.


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## Whitestrat (Jul 10, 2011)

When you have a damaged guitar like this, the natural assumption is that it left the factory in that shape. We don't know where the damage was inflicted, and how it ended up like this. There's also no way to tell from pictures what that damage really is, so anything you see online is pure speculation.

Then there's the point about EBMM being production guitars. As with all operations, when you produce a few hundred pieces a day with multiple variations each, there's bound to be one or 2 pieces that would slip QC. It might seem easy to think that a 100% check is possible, but I assure you, it is not. Why? because workers are human. Their managers are human. Their bosses are humans. And humans make mistakes.

There are those who feel that a $2,500 guitar should be flawless. First of all, a $2,500 is hardly what I'd call high-end. Not when you have Gibsons costing twice as much with thrice more flaws. Let me share this: Even a $850,000 ferrari can come flawed (quite often, I might add). There is no excuse. This is just a fact of life.

That said, yes, it's true that some of us would have saved really hard and slogged our asses off to buy that dream at $2,500. When the guitar comes damaged, we feel upset, enraged and cheated. What's critical at this point is not the guitar, but the personal ego. How the company handles the case is key, and in this case, I think EBMM handled it aptly.

Sterling has a PR management style that he's become infamous for. Some like it, some don't. That's fine. If you like it, good for you. If not, just move on. I've had my fair share of disagreements with him, and at the end, I decided to simply vote with my feet. If I'm not a fan of how he does things, I just don't buy his guitars.


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 11, 2011)

As a fellow EBMM user, I'd strongly advise posting about issues on their forum. You should be able to but it really serves no purpose because:

A: You'll just get told to contact CS
B: The diehard EBMM nuts will come out of the woodwork with their 'Every EB is perfect' comments as such as was said above. 

I had 5 different JP's that all had QC issues right out of the box. Now don't get me wrong, I love the JP's but after getting 5 that all had issues then having to pay to send them back, I was pissed. I first contacted my dealer, which pretty much got me nowhere, then I proceeded to voice my opinion on their forum. Wrong move. I was continuously bashed by some forumites there and Sterling himself publicly called me out and bashed me (after posting my private correspondence with my dealer) on his forum, then proceeded to ban me after he got the last word of course. 

After that I moved to Suhr guitars for a year but missed the JP's so I picked up a used BFR. I vowed to never order a brand new EB and put money in Sterling's pocket again. 

-Phil


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## Whitestrat (Jul 11, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I had 5 different JP's that all had QC issues right out of the box. Now don't get me wrong, I love the JP's but after getting 5 that all had issues then having to pay to send them back, I was pissed. I first contacted my dealer, which pretty much got me nowhere, then I proceeded to voice my opinion on their forum. Wrong move. I was continuously bashed by some forumites there and Sterling himself publicly called me out and bashed me (after posting my private correspondence with my dealer) on his forum, then proceeded to ban me after he got the last word of course.


 
Hey Phil, yeah I remember your issues on the forum. They didn't strike me as "unpostable" and I was surprised that BP came out hard on you for those. That was really odd.

You got them from Pete I presume?


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## Musza (Jul 11, 2011)

I hate high-end guitars with solid finish


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 11, 2011)

Whitestrat said:


> Hey Phil, yeah I remember your issues on the forum. They didn't strike me as "unpostable" and I was surprised that BP came out hard on you for those. That was really odd.
> 
> You got them from Pete I presume?



The JPX and Koa BFR came from Pete, the two Dargie Delights came from Bass Central, and the Mystic Dream came from Guitar Center. 

-Phil


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## tjrlogan (Jul 11, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> The JPX and Koa BFR came from Pete, the two Dargie Delights came from Bass Central, and the Mystic Dream came from Guitar Center.
> 
> -Phil



Yikes Phil, sounds like they were overly hard on you dude. 

Would it be too much to ask what kind of QC issues you had?

The reason I'm asking is because the JPXI is not the first EBMM I've had that had QC issues as well. I bought a 6 string JPX last year that appeared to have finish issues on the back - the clearcoat kinda "sank in" in some areas and left these strange little swirly lines in the outer finish. They were buffed out pretty easily, so I didn't complain, but hearing you say had 5 JP's with issues makes me curious.

I figured I'd give EBMM a second chance, because I like the way the guitars sound and feel, but now after having 2 guitars with flaws and hearing other complaints come out of the woodwork, I'm getting very....um...skeptical....for lack of better words. 

I know there are more expensive guitars out there, but the BFR models are touted at EBMM's top of the line products and I don't think it's too much to expect top tier quality from them.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 11, 2011)

Whitestrat said:


> When you have a damaged guitar like this, the natural assumption is that it left the factory in that shape. We don't know where the damage was inflicted, and how it ended up like this.


Yes, we do.


> There's also no way to tell from pictures what that damage really is,


Yes, there is.


> so anything you see online is pure speculation.


No, it isn't.

The answer to all of these is that it's a PRODUCTION issue, that even EB CS has acknowledged and is taking care of. This isn't a point to be argued. They know exactly what the problem is (and determined what it was from the pictures) and what caused it which is why they have been working with us to remedy the issue rather than saying something to the effect of "take it up with UPS/FedEx".



> Then there's the point about EBMM being production guitars. As with all operations, when you produce a few hundred pieces a day with multiple variations each, there's bound to be one or 2 pieces that would slip QC. It might seem easy to think that a 100% check is possible, but I assure you, it is not.
> There are those who feel that a $2,500 guitar should be flawless. First of all, a $2,500 is hardly what I'd call high-end. Not when you have Gibsons costing twice as much with thrice more flaws. Let me share this: Even a $850,000 ferrari can come flawed (quite often, I might add). There is no excuse. This is just a fact of life.


$2,500 is high-end. It's not the HIGHEST end, but it is high-end. That's like saying a Mercedes or Lexus isn't high-end just because of some outlier ferrari that's ten times as much. I think you're confusing Music Man with Ibanez or Gibson. They aren't making HUNDREDS of guitars a day. As far as well known/mainstream guitar companies go, I would say they are among the smallest. 
My CoA states: ".._.Further, this instrument is a limited release and was crafted with the absolute greatest of care and precision_, ...." But nothing about Sterling, Scott, or Brian actually looking it over, so perhaps that was a misconception on all of our parts. I guess I assumed that if three people hand-sign a certificate for a guitar it was because they looked it over. Eitherway, they still didn't live up to even the "care and precision" they stated.



> Sterling has a PR management style that he's become infamous for. Some like it, some don't.


I don't think anybody likes his attitude. 



petruccirocks02 said:


> As a fellow EBMM user, I'd strongly advise posting about issues on their forum. You should be able to but it really serves no purpose because:
> 
> A: You'll just get told to contact CS
> B: The diehard EBMM nuts will come out of the woodwork with their 'Every EB is perfect' comments as such as was said above.
> ...



I kind of did the same thing, but at the same time it's incredibly hard to walk away from these guitars altogether. When they do them right, they're amazing, but it seems like you always have a 50/50 shot when ordering one. I've owned four thus far, and only this most recent one had a problem- I considered myself lucky. I've seen a lot of them that have problems leaving the factory. A lot of volume pots that don't even work- or a busted/non-responsive Piezo system. I've seen BFRs with white dots IN the finish- there's no way to fix that! For the longest time I didn't understand the "My Top Sucks!" thing over on the forums- I thought that was their way of joking about how many of the tops really do suck and they were just having fun with it. Quite the opposite. I couldn't believe it. Some of the BFR quilt finishes that I've seen are a JOKE. That's why I demanded to see pics of the one I was actually getting before I put a dime down on it. It's hilarious everytime an older Axis shows up on the forums over there and the top at that point is completely faded away and looks like total shit and everyone there will be like "Oh, that's a really interesting and unique top" LOL. It's unbelievable man. I just can't take anyone over there seriously.


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 11, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Yes, we do.
> Yes, there is.
> No, it isn't.
> 
> ...



I used to love going on that forum until I really saw Sterling's true colors. Way too much Kool Aid drinking going on over there now. 

-Phil


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## Rook (Jul 11, 2011)

I definitely agree with a lot of the comments about the EB forums, it's a really uncomfortable place, I really try not to post there. EB's QC can be a little sketchy at times, I sort of let them off to a degree because it's a small operation blah blah blah and at the end of the day they make the guitas that suit me best. When it comes round to it, I don't pay 'high end guitar' money for them anyway and wouldn't. I bought my JPX used and imported it from the USA, after shipping and tax it cost me about the same as a USA Deluxe Strat does in this country now and half what a new JPX would cost. I haven't seen that many bad EBMM guitars I have to say, and I have seen an awful lot of their guitars, but the UK market is buffered slightly by a distributor who probably send anything that isn't perfect back to the USA. When I then compare this to how many PRS I've has to send back for blatant (and sometimes very odd) faults, and even more so Fender it makes EBMM looks pretty good, particularly considering you don't pay anything like for an EBMM what you would for something really top shelf like Anderson or Suhr.

As long as EBMM are willing to accept responsibility, which they pretty much always seem to, I'm probably gunna continue to let them off the hook a little more than I would people like PRS who seem to do anything to avoid taking stock back. Fender aren't the same because they're such a big operation they don't even check ha;f the time you say there's a problem, they just replace.

One of the Piezo saddles on my JPX has recently lost all treble (I think it's just loose) and so I EMailed customer service who said I have to send it to Italy to get it assessed. That or buy a new saddle...

Italy?

I live in fucking Europe doesn't mean Italy is on my damn door step, jesus.



Uncreative123 said:


> How do you know he overlooks guitars before they go out? Because he says he does? How can you say he does, then turn around and say 'he can't check them all 'cause he's busy' in the very next sentence? How can you say they have good customer service or customer relations when you personally have never dealt with them?
> Even if he does inspect them, he does a horrible job. According to my hand-signed CoA it says he and two others 'inspected' AFTER production, but before it left. So that either 1) Makes him a liar or 2) Blind.
> 
> You can't post stuff like this on their forum because you will be told to contact CS and have your thread deleted. Sterling can't go one day without reminding everyone how privileged they are to read his posts. It's a joke- kind of like you saying you *'expect markings on the finish'* and suspecting it happened after it left the factory.



Ok dude; first things first, look at my post again, it says "he looks at guitars", indefinite article, meaning some guitars will be looked at by him. I did not say "I have definitive proof that Sterling Ball looks at every guitar that leavs the factory without exception", I thought my meaning was clear enough with the statement after it. He is not the QC and doesn't spend all his time looking at all the guitars, but from what I gather, he does 'spot check'. Stering has a strange and sometimes obnoxious way of talking to people but I don't think he's a liar. I can't say I like the guy though...

Secondly, I have dealt with Ernie Ball's customer service on several occasions, twice on personal issues (one of which I made a thread for on here) for a set of screws and for a dead piezo saddle, I also have dealt with them quite extensively as I used to work for a dealer; their UK and USA customer service branches.

The marks on the finish I refer to are those in the finish alongside the fingerboard - if you've ever done a fret job on a guitar with finish around the edge of the fingerboard, you'll know it's difficult to leave the finished completely spotless every time, so if I bought a guitar and there were marks that appear to be from a file, I'm not gunna lose sleep, it'll probably buff out. The 'after it left the factory' comment was referring to whatever the mark is on the fingerboard in the top corner against the nut, which could have been there when it eft the factory, or someone on the shop could have leant the guitar against a wall or amp or something and it slipped. I can't say I know for sure because I can't even see the mark fully, let alone knowing every move the guitar's made since the day it came into existence.

They're giving the guy a new guitar, what more could you ask for?

It's a little different here though, particularly when buying on the used market, imagine in the USA that you could buy a 3 month old JPX for the same price as a new Deluxe Strat or something, half as much as a USA Jackson or the cheapest PRS Custom, it stops being a massive deal and you feel glad you can get something that good for that money.

If you can find one that is.


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## Furtive Glance (Jul 11, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I used to love going on that forum until I really saw Sterling's true colors. Way too much Kool Aid drinking going on over there now.
> 
> -Phil



I enjoy those forums for the most part (hence my 2000+ posts or whatever I'm at now), but I'm mainly there for the inside scoop on when they release new stuff and for the marketplace. How you were treated was absolute bullshit, I remember it well.  Incidentally, I've bought all mine used and will probably continue to do so.


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## Whitestrat (Jul 12, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Yes, we do.
> Yes, there is.
> No, it isn't.


 
How do you know? I'm not talking about just your case. I run a production, and most of the time, when customers come back with an issue, the key situation is to determine where the damage took place. (read my next paragraph before you respond.)



> The answer to all of these is that it's a PRODUCTION issue, that even EB CS has acknowledged and is taking care of. This isn't a point to be argued. They know exactly what the problem is (and determined what it was from the pictures) and what caused it which is why they have been working with us to remedy the issue rather than saying something to the effect of "take it up with UPS/FedEx".


 
No it's not. Not necessarily. Let me try to explain this.

What EBMM CS is doing, is their jobs. They're not going to push the customer around and say: "go back to GC because the damage was done by them" because that's the wrong thing to do, and it damages brand equity. What happens on the back end, is what customers mostly don't see. How EBMM eventually sorts it out with GC is another matter. The customer shouldn't be involved at that stage. The role of CS (in any company) should literally mean "Taking care of the end customer". Of course, it's not always the case, but in this case, in all my dealings with CS, they've done their jobs well.

But this does NOT mean it's a production issue. Acceptance of responsiblity does not mean admittance of guilt. By looking after their customer, they're protecting their business (then Sterling comes along and spoils the whole experience online. *sigh*) Does this make my previous points clearer?




> $2,500 is high-end. It's not the HIGHEST end, but it is high-end. That's like saying a Mercedes or Lexus isn't high-end just because of some outlier ferrari that's ten times as much. I think you're confusing Music Man with Ibanez or Gibson. They aren't making HUNDREDS of guitars a day. As far as well known/mainstream guitar companies go, I would say they are among the smallest.


 
Maybe a Ferrari was the wrong example. But my point was that when you pay close to $1,000,000 (where I come from) for a car, you'd expect it to be perfect no? But it still fails! Even Mercs, Audis and BMWs. Leaky water seals, faulty sensors, heck Audi and VW even had bad reps initially because their prized DSG gearboxes were so prone to failure! Driving a Honda is a lot less stressful.

While you're right that $2,500 isn't the highest end, they're not what I'd classify as high-end. you've got to look at the entire spectrum. They're upper-middle at best. I'd consider a Suhr (non-pro series, but still production) would be the beginning of what high-end is, to me at least. Even Gibson's Custom Shop and Fender's Masterbuilt Series would be more "high-end" than an EBMM BFR, but doesn't that mean they're better made? I don't think so. The EBMM BFR was an attempt to enter that price range, but I'm not sure it's been managed to the best of what could be done.

The BFR range was merely a case of an attempt to perform market segmentation. Nothing more, nothing less.

To be honest, they could have been worse. I tried a Mayones Setius 7 which wasn't too expensive, but the craftsmanship sort of dissapponted me. The guitar was nice to play, but the fine finishes were a little too raw for me to consider this high-end either. Having said that, it was a nice enough guitar for me to still consider buying it. Heh...



> My CoA states: ".._.Further, this instrument is a limited release and was crafted with the absolute greatest of care and precision_, ...." But nothing about Sterling, Scott, or Brian actually looking it over, so perhaps that was a misconception on all of our parts. I guess I assumed that if three people hand-sign a certificate for a guitar it was because they looked it over. Eitherway, they still didn't live up to even the "care and precision" they stated.


 
So does mine. But I'm not holding any illusions that the BFR is a limited release at all. If any, it's only limited because of it's demand. That's the way Marketers turn a negative trait into a positive sounding one. nor would I consider it being crafted with absolute care and precision, when it comes from the SAME production line? The real limited releases were the LEs which were REALLY stopped after that year. And those weren't even BFR!

I bought the JPX7 because it had all the attributes of a 7 string I'd want (save the 22 fret craving), and there was no other alternative in the market. I didn't buy it because I thought it was high-end.



> I kind of did the same thing, but at the same time it's incredibly hard to walk away from these guitars altogether. When they do them right, they're amazing, but it seems like you always have a 50/50 shot when ordering one. I've owned four thus far, and only this most recent one had a problem- I considered myself lucky. I've seen a lot of them that have problems leaving the factory. A lot of volume pots that don't even work- or a busted/non-responsive Piezo system. I've seen BFRs with white dots IN the finish- there's no way to fix that! For the longest time I didn't understand the "My Top Sucks!" thing over on the forums- I thought that was their way of joking about how many of the tops really do suck and they were just having fun with it. Quite the opposite. I couldn't believe it. Some of the BFR quilt finishes that I've seen are a JOKE. That's why I demanded to see pics of the one I was actually getting before I put a dime down on it. It's hilarious everytime an older Axis shows up on the forums over there and the top at that point is completely faded away and looks like total shit and everyone there will be like "Oh, that's a really interesting and unique top" LOL. It's unbelievable man. I just can't take anyone over there seriously.


 
Yeah... some of the BFR tops are pretty sucky. and it's odd that they make the grade (heck, even PRS tops aren't so hot sometimes)


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## littlephil (Jul 12, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> It's hilarious everytime an older Axis shows up on the forums over there and the top at that point is completely faded away and looks like total shit and everyone there will be like "Oh, that's a really interesting and unique top" LOL. It's unbelievable man. I just can't take anyone over there seriously.



The faded tops on older Axis/EVH guitars are that way because of the dye used on them, nothing to do with the wood. Maybe you don't like the look, but I've seen some faded tops that looked very nice.
Its unreasonable to expect every top on all of their guitars will be amazing, because its a natural product. They cant control the grades of wood that they get from their suppliers, and they may have had to use some lower quality tops.

I may be coming off as a fanboy, I agree with you, some of the BFR tops I've seen have been pretty poor, but they've been a minority. Not every guitar can have a perfect top though, like Whitestrat said, I've seen some PRS's with poor tops (hell, I saw a 10 top recently that was really not that great, uneven flame, a large section with poor figure)


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 12, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Yikes Phil, sounds like they were overly hard on you dude.
> 
> Would it be too much to ask what kind of QC issues you had?
> 
> ...



I'll go down the list of guitars I've had with them that have had QC issues:

JP6 in Mystic Dream with BFR Rosewood Neck - White dots underneath the clearcoat on the headstock. That guitar stayed, I never sent it back.

JP6 in Mystic Dream - Piezo was defective and non-working right out of the box. The guitar was sent back to EB and had to have the whole bridge assembly replaced. I sent the guitar back and had to pay for shipping.

BFR JP Koa JP6 - This one was delayed after the body was dropped on the floor prior to painting. It got held up for another couple of months while they repainted a new body. After owning the guitar for a month, the gold hardware started rubbing off of the bridge. The guitar was only played for maybe an hour or two a day at most.

BFR JP6 Dargie Delight II - I was psyched when I got this guitar but my excitement quickly died when I opened the case and saw that the neck was misaligned. The high E string was basically off of the edge of the fretboard. 5 other guys that I know ordered BFR Dargie Delight II's and had this same exact problem. Sent back and I had to pay for shipping.

BFR JP6 Dargie Delight II - This guitar was delayed in production because I was told be EB that they were having a "neck issue" with it. I was never told what the actual issue was.

BFR JPX - This one came with the nails sticking out of the BFR case, tons of white residue in the neck pocket and trem cavity, and the neck was so twisted that the guitar would not stay in tune and the trem springs hit the insides of the trem cavity. This one got sent back and I had to pay for shipping. I requested a replacement from my dealer, who told me that the replacement showed up but was "trashed by UPS" but never provided pics or anything of that nature. I later found out that my "replacement" was sold to someone who didn't even have the guitar fully paid off like I did. After all this is when I voiced my opinion on the EB forum and was bashed, and then promptly banned. Now if I try to log in under that user name it tells me that I was banned for being a two faced bitch. Very professional for a company to say.

-Phil


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 12, 2011)

Furtive Glance said:


> I enjoy those forums for the most part (hence my 2000+ posts or whatever I'm at now), but I'm mainly there for the inside scoop on when they release new stuff and for the marketplace. How you were treated was absolute bullshit, I remember it well.  Incidentally, I've bought all mine used and will probably continue to do so.



Same here, used from now on. I'll no longer put money in Sterling Ball's pocket. Not after the way I was treated.

-Phil


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 12, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I requested a replacement from my dealer, who told me that the replacement showed up but was "trashed by UPS" but never provided pics or anything of that nature. I later found out that my "replacement" was sold to someone who didn't even have the guitar fully paid off like I did.



Wow, I was considering buying one a while back from that same dealer and to hear that he did that is extremely fucked. No way is he getting my business now.


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 12, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Wow, I was considering buying one a while back from that same dealer and to hear that he did that is extremely fucked. No way is he getting my business now.



You may be treated differently by a dealer. Who knows. I like giving my business to some like Bass Central (who has always gone the extra mile for me, so much so that the owner gives me 6-8 months to pay off a guitar if I need it). The guy's shop who I got the JPX from is a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but I've gotten the impression that certain customers get better treatment than others and I'm not a fan of that. When you drop $3300 on a guitar there, then spend another $2500 I'd expect better CS and stuff. 

-Phil


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 12, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Ok dude; first things first, look at my post again, it says "he looks at guitars", indefinite article, meaning some guitars will be looked at by him.



That changes nothing...how do you know he looks at ANY guitars? You don't, you're assuming. The rest of your post was assumptions about what coulda/shoulda/woulda happened. Honestly, I really didn't need hear anything after I read:


Fun111 said:


> Marking on the finish due to fret job is unfortunate, but I do sorta expect it,


 




Whitestrat said:


> How do you know? I'm not talking about just your case. I run a production, and most of the time, when customers come back with an issue, the key situation is to determine where the damage took place. (read my next paragraph before you respond.)
> 
> What EBMM CS is doing, is their jobs. They're not going to push the customer around and say: "go back to GC because the damage was done by them" because that's the wrong thing to do, and it damages brand equity. What happens on the back end, is what customers mostly don't see. How EBMM eventually sorts it out with GC is another matter. The customer shouldn't be involved at that stage. The role of CS (in any company) should literally mean "Taking care of the end customer". Of course, it's not always the case, but in this case, in all my dealings with CS, they've done their jobs well.
> 
> But this does NOT mean it's a production issue. Acceptance of responsiblity does not mean admittance of guilt. By looking after their customer, they're protecting their business (then Sterling comes along and spoils the whole experience online. *sigh*) Does this make my previous points clearer?


 
*How do I know? Because they told me in their e-mail response and confirmed what I already knew.* At this point I'm getting really tired of people arguing for arguments sake. This isn't just aimed towards you, because there are others doing it. However that's really all you're doing here. You're arguing semantics and completely irrelevant points. Did you look at the pictures? It is obvious to (almost) everyone that this is a PRODUCTION FLAW. How do you end up with extra finish on your fretboard as a result due to shipping? You answer me that and then I'll take you seriously. I don't care about your experience with CS or your explanation of how CS should operate. That doesn't help or hinder my situation. *EB CS has admitted their mistake and is taking care of it. * Leave it alone. Why can't me saying "they're taking care of it" be enough for you? Why do you have to go on to say that "well, it might not even be their fault. It could've happened this way..." or something to that effect. Drop it, seriously.

The rest of the stuff was semantics- comparing Gibson custom shop and custom Suhr stuff to BFRs for what reason? You might as well have included Yachts in your car comparison. A $2500 guitar is high-end. Again, you're just arguing semantics and ignoring the rule of averages. The market is flooded with guitars in the $3-900 range. No matter what guitar store you go into it will have guitars in that range- far fewer stores have things like BFRs. The guitars you're mentioning would all be considered outliers- rare and few and far between.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 12, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> You may be treated differently by a dealer. Who knows. I like giving my business to some like Bass Central (who has always gone the extra mile for me, so much so that the owner gives me 6-8 months to pay off a guitar if I need it). The guy's shop who I got the JPX from is a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but I've gotten the impression that certain customers get better treatment than others and I'm not a fan of that. When you drop $3300 on a guitar there, then spend another $2500 I'd expect better CS and stuff.
> 
> -Phil




I pretty much assumed that from the way he acts on the forum. That's why I chose to never do business with him. Both Bass Central and Drum City Guitar Land have hooked me up a few times, but my last experience with Bass Central was just that...my last.


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## cyril v (Jul 12, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> How do I know? Because they told me in their e-mail response and confirmed what I already knew. At this point I'm getting really tired of people arguing for arguments sake. This isn't just aimed towards you, because there are others doing it. However that's really all you're doing here. You're arguing semantics and completely irrelevant points. Did you look at the pictures? It is obvious to (almost) everyone that this is a PRODUCTION FLAW. *How do you end up with extra finish on your fretboard as a result due to shipping? You answer me that and then I'll take you seriously.*





CLEARLY UPS took your guitar out of the box to inspect it, then accidentally grinded some paint off of the side of the neck with a brick (?)... luckily they had a painter on hand that had an extra gallon of black-onyx finish. Unfortunately, he was hung-over that day, so he accidentally left excess paint on the side of your guitars neck. srsly.


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 12, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> You may be treated differently by a dealer. Who knows. I like giving my business to some like Bass Central (who has always gone the extra mile for me, so much so that the owner gives me 6-8 months to pay off a guitar if I need it). The guy's shop who I got the JPX from is a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but I've gotten the impression that certain customers get better treatment than others and I'm not a fan of that. When you drop $3300 on a guitar there, then spend another $2500 I'd expect better CS and stuff.
> 
> -Phil



Yeh, I know I most likely wouldn't have the same experience as you did, but it still irks me that it's even a possibility that the dealer would act in that way. It's just not alright by any means. And I've seen him post around on several forums and stuff so I know he's a decent guy, but I still don't want to be in the hands of someone who acted in that manner should shit hit the fan with a guitar.



Uncreative123 said:


> The rest of the stuff was semantics- comparing Gibson custom shop and custom Suhr stuff to BFRs for what reason? You might as well have included Yachts in your car comparison. A $2500 guitar is high-end. Again, you're just arguing semantics and ignoring the rule of averages. The market is flooded with guitars in the $3-900 range. No matter what guitar store you go into it will have guitars in that range- far fewer stores have things like BFRs. The guitars you're mentioning would all be considered outliers- rare and few and far between.





Seriously, drop the semantics nonsense. A BFR is a high-end guitar with a high-end price tag. And when you compare something like Gibson's custom shop, which let's be honest, nowadays isn't anything special, it makes me wonder what standard you hold for a guitar being high-end. Is it the price tag? Because the price isn't the end-all of determining how good a guitar is.


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## Church2224 (Jul 12, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I'll go down the list of guitars I've had with them that have had QC issues:
> 
> JP6 in Mystic Dream with BFR Rosewood Neck - White dots underneath the clearcoat on the headstock. That guitar stayed, I never sent it back.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about all of those problems Phil. I kind of had the same problems with the Carvin forum, and every time I talk about problems with one of my DC400s I get the cold shoulder and when I call them they seem that they never want to help me out, just avoid the situation. Needless to say why my signature says Ibanez, Jackson, PRS, and ESP, hell even Jackson was helpful after I talked to them about pickups and special ordering guitars. 

I though supporting a smaller company would be a good thing and help me out in the long run, I guess I was wrong. Next time I want a custom McNaught will be hearing from me...


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 12, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Sorry to hear about all of those problems Phil. I kind of had the same problems with the Carvin forum, and every time I talk about problems with one of my DC400s I get the cold shoulder and when I call them they seem that they never want to help me out, just avoid the situation. Needless to say why my signature says Ibanez, Jackson, PRS, and ESP, hell even Jackson was helpful after I talked to them about pickups and special ordering guitars.
> 
> I though supporting a smaller company would be a good thing and help me out in the long run, I guess I was wrong. Next time I want a custom McNaught will be hearing from me...



Thanks man. Its no biggie. Some friends of mine started a cool little forum where we can talk about whatever we want, post pics of other guitars and not get criticized, etc. 

I'm glad to not be a part of that forum anymore, and deal with Sterling's crap and some of the forumites over there. 

-Phil


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## Rook (Jul 12, 2011)

Really...? I'm not assuming anything, the guy said he looks at some guitars and does spot checks, he doesn't come across to me as a liar. He's pretty obnoxious though. I'm not arguing with you though man, you clearly don't wanna know what I think/know/have experienced, I don't really get why... 

This is all getting way too argumentative.


Anyhow, my JPX and my Graphite Pearl JP6 had all the White residue in the trem cavity, it's from the buffing process I believe. My 57 reissue strat among a lot of other USA Fenders I've sold (from new) had it too. It's pretty annoying but I didn't loose sleep over it it came straight off. I did also have to reassemble my BFR case because of bits coming loose and nails sticking out :-S

Their QC is iffy to say the least. I still sorta accept it for the reasons I previously mentioned.

Can't stand the EB forums though...


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## Whitestrat (Jul 12, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Why can't me saying "they're taking care of it" be enough for you? Why do you have to go on to say that "well, it might not even be their fault. It could've happened this way..." or something to that effect. Drop it, seriously.


 
I apologise for not pouring over your last thread where only on your last post did you claim they admitted their mistake (though you didn't say what the actual correspondence was).


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## cyril v (Jul 13, 2011)

Whitestrat said:


> I apologise for not pouring over your last thread where only on your last post did you claim they admitted their mistake (though you didn't say what the actual correspondence was).





He also mentioned it in a post that you already replied to, you just ignored it.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2566320-post62.html


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## yellowv (Jul 13, 2011)

For some reason EBMM seems to be missing the boat on QC on the JPX and JPXI's. I think it may be the fact that they are using some new materials and not perfecting their craftsmanship with them. I have had 4 EBMM's, and all but my JPX have been perfect. My BFR bari is flawless as was the rosewood neck JP I had and my Morse is perfect. Now the JPX had sharp fret ends and has a bit of a low nut. However the finish on the sides of the board is perfect. I cleaned up the sharp frets myself and til this point have left the nut be. EBMM said they will swap it, but as I got it second hand I would have to pay shipping both ways which would be over $150 total in shipping alone. Since I don't get any open string buzz through the amp I have opted to leave it be. I have a couple of theories on these flaws. First off I have heard of other JPX's with low nuts and sharp fret ends. I honestly think these issues come down to the fact that EBMM isn't used to using ebony and as it is more apt to being effected by dry climates which would explain fret sprout and sharp fret ends. Now the low nut I attribute to two things. Firstly that the JPX uses bigger frets so if they cut the nut like do normally it's gonna be low. Secondly Sterling himself said his pet peeve is a high nut. I think the guys in the shop tend to cut them a bit low to keep him happy. Now with the JPXI I attribute the problem to the guys being inexperienced doing fretwork with SS frets. My Parker Fly had similar finish imperfections on the side of the board. As somebody earlier said it is quite tough to keep the finish perfect when it goes all the way to the edge of the board, especially when you have to file SS frets. 

Now to the complaints about the EBMM forum... I understand it is frustrating when you have issues, but in my experience customer service has always been willing to help. The thing you have to understand is that it's not a private run forum such as this is. It is owned and operated by the Ernie Ball Company. Obviously they are going to ask that you call them first and let them take care of things before airing your complaints to the public on THEIR website. I will agree that their are some guys on that site that act like a problem could never exist with an EBMM guitar, but for the most part people are cool over there. True Sterling get be condescending at times, but what other guitar company do you know of that runs their own forum and has the owner check in basically daily?


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 13, 2011)

yellowv said:


> True Sterling get be condescending at times, but what other guitar company do you know of that runs their own forum and has the owner check in basically daily?



Suhr. John Suhr even goes as far as to answer phone calls at his shop. 

-Phil


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## yellowv (Jul 13, 2011)

Suhr is still a much smaller outfit than EB. John Suhr is known to be quite opinionated as well.


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## Rook (Jul 13, 2011)

^^understatement of the century!

@ yellowv, each of the 3 JPX's I've tried has had a slightly low nut, particularly on the bass side, weird that you noticed too. Your longer post makes an awful lot of sense though dude.


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 13, 2011)

yellowv said:


> Suhr is still a much smaller outfit than EB. John Suhr is known to be quite opinionated as well.



They may be a smaller outfit, but the QC is top notch, and unlike Sterling Ball, John Suhr doesn't go around bashing his customers that spend their hard earned cash on his instruments. Also, it seems that Sterling has more than enough time to be on his forum every day, but not enough time to control his QC?

I'd say that Sterling Ball is quite opinionated as well. A little too much I'd say.

-Phil


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## Rook (Jul 13, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> They may be a smaller outfit, but the QC is top notch, and unlike Sterling Ball, John Suhr doesn't go around bashing his customers that spend their hard earned cash on his instruments. Also, it seems that Sterling has more than enough time to be on his forum every day, but not enough time to control his QC?
> 
> I'd say that Sterling Ball is quite opinionated as well. A little too much I'd say.
> 
> -Phil



I don't think anyone was denying that, disappointingly the guy's apparently a grade A jackass...


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 13, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I don't think anyone was denying that, disappointingly the guy's apparently a grade A jackass...



Its really a shame that he's not nicer to the customers that put money in his pocket. 

-Phil


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## Rook (Jul 13, 2011)

I agree, I love Music Man as a company; small family operation, just a few models, no 'stock guitars' they're literally all made to order (and this is the truth, I had a long chat to the UK Distributor about it), I love their guitars and what they stand for. Sterling always used to be pretty decent, I think it's just the amount of attention he's been getting more recently (last 5 years or so) he's turned into a right arse. I think he's a bit too used to having to defend his corner all the time 

Either way, the man should be nicer to his customers, 80% of EBMM owners are devoted musicians and likely to be loyal to the brand, that deserves a little more respect.


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## yellowv (Jul 13, 2011)

Oh I'm not saying Sterling isn't opinionated at all. Quite the contrary he is extremely opinionated and will never admit he is wrong. Hell he has most of the people over there convinced the proper way to adjust action is with a truss rod adjustment. We all know thats wrong, but he swears that they are set up so well from the factory they will never need anything but a truss rod tweak here and there, and people believe it. I argued that point. Surprised I didn't get in trouble  He can be rough at times for sure, but honestly I would get pissed as well if I was cool enough to keep a forum going for enthusiasts of my brand and people could not follow the simple rule of go to CS before airing out your dirty laundry on his site. I don't know what it is, but for some reason there seem to be at least one to two threads started by brand new users that can't barely even put a sentence together daily complaining about crazy issues with their guitars. Never have pics, usually never reply after the first post. I think people just go on there with fake complaints to bust Sterling's balls. You see what I did there?


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## Whitestrat (Jul 13, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Its really a shame that he's not nicer to the customers that put money in his pocket.
> 
> -Phil


 
Well, that at least tells us he's fair. He's not nice to everyone. No exceptions.


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## petruccirocks02 (Jul 13, 2011)

Whitestrat said:


> Well, that at least tells us he's fair. He's not nice to everyone. No exceptions.



Haha. 

-Phil


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 14, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Also, it seems that Sterling has more than enough time to be on his forum every day, but not enough time to control his QC?
> 
> 
> -Phil




This sums it up perfectly. And my God, his typing is atrocious. I really think that gives some insight into his work ethic. It's like he doesn't even look at or care how many words his misspelled or how he's just butchered his own writing. How can anyone who reads that take him seriously? A "CEO" that can't even type? or spell? I guess that's what you get when you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth.


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## TheShreddinHand (Jul 14, 2011)

I also used to frequent the EB board but no longer after going back to Ibanez guitars. It was F'd up the way Phil was treated. Really F'd up. I've had a lot of JP guitars (5) myself and while I never had an issue as severe as Phil's, one of them had a neck slightly out of line (I just loosened the 4 bolts, but a little pressure on it to better fit in the pocket and it was good), the saddle on the high e on almost all of them would hit the trem post if you did a dive bomb and one of them had a little nick out of the fretboard between frets on the Low B string similar to what Uncreative has on his JPXi but not nearly as severe (I could live with it). But being on that board it's almost unreadable the kool-aide that's being drunk on there. The Fractal board has gone that way as well in my opinion. It really turns me off to their (both companies) products. I think the owners should stay OFF the boards personally.

Eric


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## SirMyghin (Jul 14, 2011)

yellowv said:


> the simple rule of go to CS before airing out your dirty laundry on his site. I don't know what it is, but for some reason there seem to be at least one to two threads started by brand new users that can't barely even put a sentence together daily complaining about crazy issues with their guitars.



This is an important rule, I frankly don't understand why people do anything but go to CS (I think posting pictures of your 'issues' for others is in bad taste). I mean no one else can help you, give the company a chance to make it right before you whine to others, otherwise you look a little silly come the end.


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## cyril v (Jul 14, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> This is an important rule, I frankly don't understand why people do anything but go to CS (I think posting pictures of your 'issues' for others is in bad taste). I mean no one else can help you, give the company a chance to make it right before you whine to others, otherwise you look a little silly come the end.



I dunno, I feel the opposite. I'd like to know if theres a chance of a production issue... people like to know what they're getting themselves into when they're dropping a few thousand on a new guitar. I'm not talking about making a total shit on EB-fest thread, but a thread simply letting others that are in the market know whats going on.

When they wrapped up Uncreative's guitar in the bubblewrap before placing it into the guitar case, there is no way in hell they didn't notice the issue with the guitar. That was their first chance to make things right IMO... having to pay to ship back a brand new guitar has got to be gutting.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 28, 2011)

Ok Guys so I have updates, and I apologize in advance for the lengthy post:


*THE GOOD:*
I ended up sending the guitar to EBMM for repair and the guitar came back to me yesterday (the entire process took about 2.5 weeks, including shipping time back and forth). The guitar is as good as new. EBMM basically filed, sanded, and buffed the edge of the fretboard and it looks good now. The gash by the nut/low B also appears to have been sanded down and is not there anymore. I&#8217;ll post pics in the next day or two when I get some time. 

*THE BAD:*
UPS fucked up my BFR case. The box had a triangular tear (about 3 inches) in it and the leather on the case was ripped and dented on the exact same spot. It is purely cosmetic on the outside and thankfully did not penetrate the actual case and hurt the guitar. I contacted EBMM again and they&#8217;re going to file a claim with UPS and send me a new case and T-shirt. Not bad, I would have settled for an apology as it is only cosmetic, but am glad they're going to settle it. 

*THE UGLY*:
Three weeks ago, when EBMM first gave me the option to have a new guitar sent to the Guitar Center for an exchange, I jumped on it and called the Guitar Center immediately to set it up. I was told by the rep, "sure, let me send an email to my manager, and he'll probably get back to you tomorrow as he isn't in today". 

On day 2 I waited all day and finally called and asked to speak to the manager. After explaining the situation to him, he basically said he knew nothing about it, didn't see any emails, and would probably have to talk to the rep. Frustrated, I asked to speak to the rep, and was told he wasn't in that day, call back tomorrow. 

So on day 3, I called the GC again to speak to the rep, and was told that he was on lunch. Called back again a few hours later, and he was on break. At this point I was terribly frustrated and was on the verge just driving down there (about 1 hour away) to return the guitar...but honestly between the discount I got and my trade-in I would end up spending more to buy the guitar somewhere else. I just said "fuck it", I don&#8217;t wanna deal with GC anymore or ever again, and called back EBMM and arranged to just ship the guitar to them for repair. I know a lot of you may have returned the guitar on principle, and trust me, I really wanted to do it - but the guitar is just so damn nice . 

On day 4 I Shipped the JPXI7 to EBMM 4 and it arrived to the factory about a week later via USPS. Exactly 1 day after it arrived, I got a call back from the repair tech saying "the guitar is fixed and it is shipping back to you today". A week later (yesterday), the guitar arrived on my doorstep. 

*LESSONS LEARNED:*
1) Inspect any guitar thoroughly before taking it out of a store.
2) Guitar Center only cares about the immediate sale &#8211; after that, you&#8217;re on your own.
3) EBMM QC can be hit or miss sometimes, but their customer service absolutely rocks!
4) UPS Sucks!

I'll try to post updated pics of the guitar in a day or two. Been very busy these last couple of days.


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## cyril v (Jul 28, 2011)

Congrats again man, this is extremely good to hear! 

Now you can finally put some serious playtime on that beast! Definitely sucks about the case, but as long as the guitar is fine and they're taking care of it, I wouldn't sweat it at all.


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## yellowv (Jul 28, 2011)

My JPX is actually arriving at EBMM today. I finally got fed up with the low nut and I'm having them replace it. Hopefully I get it back soon perfect. I sent mine in one of my molded EBMM cases so the BFR one wouldn't get f'ed up.


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## Vinchester (Jul 28, 2011)

respect to EBMM for offering to give you a replacement over such tiny cosmetic flaw. Well yes at that price point this can be unacceptable to some, but personally I'll overlook it!


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## yingmin (Jul 28, 2011)

Sucks for all of you guys. My JPXI is awesome!


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 28, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Ok Guys so I have updates, and I apologize in advance for the lengthy post:
> 
> 
> *THE GOOD:*
> ...




I finally was able to send mine back too. It got there yesterday and they called me letting me know they had it. Got a message this morning saying it was done and they were shipping it back. Much faster than the month+ they had quoted me. I can't help but wonder if this and the other thread had any bearing on that...


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## Church2224 (Jul 28, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> I finally was able to send mine back too. It got there yesterday and they called me letting me know they had it. Got a message this morning saying it was done and they were shipping it back. Much faster than the month+ they had quoted me. I can't help but wonder if this and the other thread had any bearing on that...



I feel from now on they might have a tighter shift on quality control. They should know at least by now that any issue like this can get out rather quickly and now a lot of people are seeing what this issue is who were potential buyers might be skeptical about ordering from them. So they need to rebuild their reputation. At least that is what I hope will happen...


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## tjrlogan (Jul 30, 2011)

Ok people...are you ready to laugh and shake your heads at me? I finally sat down today to play with the guitar and take some pics...and well....I'll let the following email I composed to EBMM's customer service explain (note, it's not sent yet):

Dear EBMM

First, I would like to apologize in advance for not sending this email sooner. I've had a busy week and only got the chance today to really sit down with the guitar.

I want to provide some disappointed feedback about the repaired JPXI7. I noticed some things today when playing it and when I began to take some pics to show my friends of the work EBMM did.....

The flaws pointed out in my original email were certainly repaired, but in doing so it appears that some new flaws were created.

First, the technican stated in the return receipt that the edge of the guitar was filed, sanded, and buffed - but now the guitar appears and feels like that repaired edge has a "rolled edge" effect. The "rolling" is not uniform on the entire fretboard edge, only towards the higher frets. So effectively, I do not have symmetrical fretboard edges. It is difficult to capture this in pics as the clearcoat on the side of the gutar hides the contours.

In addition to the rolling effect on the edge, it appears that frets were filed on only one side of the guitar. The result of this is the frets edges appearing uneven on the top and bottom of the freboard. The lower fret edges are rounded and smooth, while some of the upper fret edges (the filed ones) are steeply slanted, sharper and longer. I tried to capture this in pics, but it was difficult due to the angles. 

Lastly, I noticed that now there is a gap in the neck pocket. I understand that small gaps are normal on bolt on guitars, but the strange thing is that I can see bare, unfinished wood between the gap. The bare wood is not just on the bottom of gap, but on the sides as well. I was able to capture this in pics and they are attached. (The neck itself is still quite sturdy and aligned properly). 

I should mention that all of these things do not affect playability that much, but I am very dissapointed that in sending a brand new guitar back to you guys for repair, I now effectively have a refurbished guitar with asymetrical flaws. From what I understood, reparing this guitar should have restored it to like new condition....not cause further defects. I BELIEVE I AM OWED A NEW GUITAR, AND HOPE SOMETHING CAN BE DONE. Thus far I have decided to go through EBMM and pay to ship the guitar back because Guitar Center did not respond to multiple requests to set up an exchange with you guys (which was one of the options you offered me originally). I now regret doing so. 

Again, I apologize for not sending this email sooner. I tested the guitar initially upon receipt to make sure that it works, that the rough FRETBOARD edges were repaired, and that it was not damaged during shipment. I did not expect it to have a partialy rolled FRETBOARD EDGE, SHARPLY FILED FRETS, AND A NEW GAP IN THE NECK POCKET. 

I just want to express my high level of disappointment with the repair work. I know this is not directly your fault and you have been great with dealing with all of my issues thus far - the Customer Service I have received so far from EBMM was exceptional; it's just too bad I can't actually say the same about your Quality Control.

Sincerely and regretfully,
TJ

See Pictures in posts below.... 

[NOTE: Editied the letter to request a new guitar]


What do ya'll think? Am I being unreasonable? Should I send this email off? Any suggestions?


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## Santuzzo (Jul 30, 2011)

To be honest with you, by looking at the pics I can't see any flaws, or anything being wrong. But like you said, the flaws you mentioned are hard to capture on camera but you do notice them when holding the guitar in your hands.

I can't tell you if you should send this e-mail off or not, that depends on what you want to achieve by doing so. If at this point you would like to get the guitar replaced with a new one, then it makes perfect sense to send that e-mail, but in that case you should also mention that in the e-mail, IMO.
But I don't know if you want to have the guitar replaced at all.

In the end the only thing that's important is that you are happy with the guitar, you paid a lot of money for it and you should have a flawless instrument, I think!


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## tjrlogan (Jul 30, 2011)

Ok, here's some more pics....better I hope....

*Top side, repaired, partially rolled edge (the long black shadow on the edge of the fretboard), sharp angled frets:*

















*Lower side, not repaired, straight edge, flatter, rounder frets:*











*Neck pocket gap, that brown area is bare wood, not the flash:*


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## Santuzzo (Jul 30, 2011)

OK, I can see it now on these pictures.

Still, whether or not to send that e-mail depends on what you want to achieve by doing so, like I said.
If you want the guitar replaced, then go for it, I would say.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 30, 2011)

It's been repeated over and over that quality is subjective, and the guitar plays just fine, but there's still principle involved. I'm divided between the fact that guitar plays fine, returning via mail is a hassle of a bitch, vs it's brand new and expensive and resale value is sure to be affected.

You're right though...I should say in the email that I want a replacment. I was being too nice. I edited the note to request a new guitar.

Sigh...Uncreative123...I hope they do better work on yours.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 30, 2011)

WOW @ that neck-pocket gap. I'm a little worried now, but I should have mine tues/wed. I was under the impression that we would be getting NEW necks, so this is a bit of a surprise.


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## tjrlogan (Jul 30, 2011)

Yah dude, I don't remember any gap like that originally, and I especially don't remember being able to see bare wood through it. I knew they were gonna try to "repair" the neck, but I didn't know they'd screw it up in other ways. Why the hell did they touch the frets? I didn't have a problem with that. And the tech didn't "file, sand, and buff" the edge evenly, so now it's partially rolled. 


I hope to dear goodness yours is better. I'm actually gonna shoot that email over to the EBMM CS rep right now.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 1, 2011)

....and today I got this reply from Scott Ball:

"Hi TJ,
Unfortunately from the pictures you have attached I cannot see any kind of defect on your guitar. 
Best,
Scott"


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## Church2224 (Aug 1, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> ....and today I got this reply from Scott Ball:
> 
> "Hi TJ,
> Unfortunately from the pictures you have attached I cannot see any kind of defect on your guitar.
> ...



Find a way to return it. Period. 

Looks like I have just written off EBMM as part of a soon to be NGD, looks like Ibanez, Jackson or ESP.

Tell them they are loosing customers because of this too and nothing short of a new guitar should be expected and should be shipped directly to you.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 1, 2011)

Yeah, you know what...I'm gonna reply and thank him for his Steve Jobs impression. I'm also gonna send a link to this thread of the forum to him (is that allowed?).


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## Larrikin666 (Aug 1, 2011)

This is crazy. I check this thread daily, and I keep getting bummed out. I was completely sold on getting a JPXI to compliment my JPX, but I don't want to deal with the odds of opening a guitar like this and all the nonsense trying to get it fixed/replaced.


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## Church2224 (Aug 1, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Yeah, you know what...I'm gonna reply and thank him for his Steve Jobs impression. I'm also gonna send a link to this thread of the forum to him (is that allowed?).



Go for it. This is not the way you treat a customer. First give him a bad guitar then when you go fix it it has even more problems that are different from when you sent it in. Sterling Ball and everyone at EBMM Needs to see this. 

I would also boycott Guitar Center for the B.S. they pulled off too. They sold you that defected JP they should help to replace it instead of beating around the bush. No excuse for them either. 

I was going to get a JPXI But I decided to get a Caparison TAT or Jackson soloist SL2H- MAH instead. Sterling Ball if you read this you have just lost a potential customer, at least for a while until EBMM Gets their act together. 

Hopefully you get the perfect guitar you wanted man. Look at other options instead.


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## atticmike (Aug 1, 2011)

Holy mother. I hope my JPXI will be in a excellent condition since I'm receiving it overseas which would be a pain in such a case :/

However, I'm awaiting the six string JPXI.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 1, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> ....and today I got this reply from Scott Ball:
> 
> "Hi TJ,
> Unfortunately from the pictures you have attached I cannot see any kind of defect on your guitar.
> ...



Well, I guess now we know why these things leave the factory with defects to begin with. You've gotta be fucking blind not to see that gap.

Sorry the repair didn't go better for you dude


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## ROAR (Aug 1, 2011)

This makes me re-think getting an EBMM...

Sorry for all you've gone through for a guitar like this.
I'd expect spending this amount of money on a guitar
would come with better quality and customer service,
but sometimes shit happens.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 1, 2011)

Thank you for the support guys. Here's the latest email updates:

_______________________________________________________________
MY REPLY TO SCOTT:

With all due respect, it seems apparent that my lengthy description did nothing to supplement the pictures. I also assume your response means "no, we're not gonna help.". 

This entire ordeal has been documented and will be made available for others to judge themselves whenever and wherever possible:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/se...her-jpxi-7-plus-qc-dilemma-5.html#post2598245

I know I'm just one of the little guys and you probably don't care what I have to do or say - it'll be just business usual for you anyway. 

Best
TJ

________________________________________________________________
HIS REPLY TO ME:

Reply |Scott Ball to me 
show details 6:14 PM (51 minutes ago) 
TJ,
From your pictures it appears nothing is wrong with the guitar. If you would like to send it back please call us at 866-823-2255 and we can issue you a return authorization number.
Best,
Scott
_______________________________________________________________
MY REPLY TO HIM:

show details 7:04 PM (1 minute ago) 

Scott,
Thank you for the offer, but please understand my hesitation to spend ANOTHER $45 to ship the guitar to EBMM only to have the guitar returned to me poorly repaired A SECOND TIME. I need a guarantee that I will get what I paid for - a high quality, new condition Ernie Ball Music Man JPXI7 guitar.

Due to the process of shipping the guitar back to you the first time, I am now past my 30 day return period at Guitar Center. If nothing can be done, I will sell the guitar as used/refurbished to someone who can live with its condition, take a loss, and stay away from your products. I will also report and review my experience whenever and wherever possible. 

I do not mean to sound threatening and still have hope that this can be taken care of responsibly. I am simply doing my part as a consumer who feels obligated to report the the poor quality of the new guitar and the subsequent "repair" work. 

FYI: Just so you know, you can clearly see the neck pocket gap in the pics. Also, If you look at the pictures of the frets by the LOW B string, you will see that they are sharply filed at an angle. Also, that dark line at the edge of the freboard by the LOW B is a newly rounded fretboard edge, which does not run the entire length of the fretboart - it is only where the "repair" was done. Next, look at the pictures of the frets by the HIGH E string and you will see that fret ends are flatter (not at an angle and more rounded). The fretboard edge is also straight by the HIGH E and not rounded. 
Thank you.

TJ
______________________________________________________________
Further updates will be added. 

Again, I appreciate the support people.


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## TheShreddinHand (Aug 2, 2011)

Very well written and professional emails. You've handled it as best as you can at this point. Good luck and hope it works out for you.

Eric


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## Santuzzo (Aug 2, 2011)

I agree, you handled this very well with that e-mail!

Best of luck!
I hope they will replace this guitar for you !


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## cyril v (Aug 2, 2011)

This is completely nuts at this point... that is Dargin himself responding to you.

Maybe he is simply having trouble seeing exactly what you see in the photo's. I could see some random QC guy possibly missing details like that and simply passing it over with a glance, but I don't believe Scott Ball would do something like that intentionally.

I say take higher-quality/resolution pictures in a well lit room with a white background to give contrast and try to get better angles and such... no shadows on the guitar and shots from different distances to show every detail. 

ALSO, since you have them still in this thread, send him the before/after repair shots so he can clearly see what happened with the frets

Best of luck to you,


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## Rook (Aug 2, 2011)

I think you're handling this very coolly, keep it up!

To a few folks here saying they're never gunna buy and EBMM, aside from the two on here (unfortunately both XI's) when do you ever hear of issues? Fact is EBMM are 99% of the time completely dead on. I obviously don't know what happened in this situation, but these are the only two QC incidents I've ever seen. I have no loyalty to the brand or anything, but knowing how many other 'high end' USA brands would have dealt with this situation far worse.

I dunno, the OP's situation really sucks, I'd be so angry at this stage, but I really believe the odds of this happening again are pretty small. Fender wouldn't give you the time of day after this much time, that's if you could even get hold of someone.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 2, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I think you're handling this very coolly, keep it up!
> 
> To a few folks here saying they're never gunna buy and EBMM, aside from the two on here (unfortunately both XI's) when do you ever hear of issues? Fact is EBMM are 99% of the time completely dead on. I obviously don't know what happened in this situation, but these are the only two QC incidents I've ever seen. I have no loyalty to the brand or anything, but knowing how many other 'high end' USA brands would have dealt with this situation far worse.



I'd have to strongly disagree with this. The whole reason that EBMM QC issues aren't really heard of is because every time a customer has one and posts about it on the EBMM forum, the second it hits the forum, its either pulled down by the mods or by Sterling Ball himself.

The same exact thing happened when I received my defective JPX. As soon as I posted a thread describing the defects, and asking for help politely from EBMM, I was trashed by Sterling and a bunch of the forum minions over there and was banned from there forum. For asking for help getting my guitar fixed since it was the 5th JP that I received that was defective. There's clearly some issues going on with their QC that need to be addressed. 

To the guy having problms with his JPXI7: 

I hope you get it repaired man, or get a replacement like you deserve. I think you're taking the correct way of going about it, even if you have to be a bit stern about it. No one should have to deal with those kind of issues TWICE on the same guitar when you're paying over $2500 for a guitar that is supposed to be top notch. The fact that they make the customer pay over and over again to ship the guitar back to CA to be repaired for EB's fuck ups is totally unacceptable in my eyes. There needs to be some serious triple checking of guitars that are getting shipped out from there or something, because clearly something is off in the QC department.

-Phil


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## orakle (Aug 2, 2011)

damn jpxi-7 was supposed to be my next guitar, kinda hesitating now ;S

and TJ i hope stuff gets sorted out for you !


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## MobiusR (Aug 2, 2011)

damn dude i really hope everything gets sorted out 

I've known EBMM to have a QC second to none!

Not to mention a JP7 is what i want in the future hopefully this doesnt happen to me or anyone else


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## MobiusR (Aug 2, 2011)

damn dude i really hope everything gets sorted out 

I've known EBMM to have a QC second to none!

Not to mention a JP7 is what i want in the future hopefully this doesnt happen to me or anyone else


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## Rook (Aug 2, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I'd have to strongly disagree with this. The whole reason that EBMM QC issues aren't really heard of is because every time a customer has one and posts about it on the EBMM forum, the second it hits the forum, its either pulled down by the mods or by Sterling Ball himself.
> 
> The same exact thing happened when I received my defective JPX. As soon as I posted a thread describing the defects, and asking for help politely from EBMM, I was trashed by Sterling and a bunch of the forum minions over there and was banned from there forum. For asking for help getting my guitar fixed since it was the 5th JP that I received that was defective. There's clearly some issues going on with their QC that need to be addressed.



There certainly seems to be.

I definitely get you and would be pretty livid but I just stay away from the EB Forums. They're hardly ever posted here and there are hundreds of EBMM owners on this site. I know you had a shitty experience, but even now you buy EBMM, there's nothing else like it and as much as situations like this make me feel angry and make me wanna sell my JPX, I just figure that there's only one way to get a guitar that plays like an EBMM...

I'm not trying to argue or get at you dude, and they treated you like total ass on that site, but I think Sterling Ball and the EB forum aside, EBMM doesn't have anything like the worst track record for quality and 9 ties out of ten their Customer Service dept does good work.

I dunno, I always buy used to avoid problems like this. Buying used (but mint) and doing my best to see what I'm buying before I do, unless it's overseas, you get the finished product. If a guitar's a year old, you pay waaay less and likelihood is all the QC issues will have been ironed out.

Sterling being an ass on his forum really leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I hear about it, the JPX is the most valuable guitar I've ever owned and knowing the company is front ed by a dude like that.

I hate to be so petty (really, I do) but I can see Sterling Ball leading me to sell my JPX, I hate his 'you don't have a choice but to put up we me being an ass' attitude.


My post seems slightly contradictory, tl;dr, the QC slip on the JPX/I guitars wouldn't put me off EBMM, but Sterling might...


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## Larrikin666 (Aug 2, 2011)

My JPX-7 had some VERY minor issues with two of the frets on the low B side, but I got it 2nd hand for a great price. I imagine the issue was there from the beginning, but I probably wouldn't have said anything even if I purchased it new. It's just really unfortunate that you're going through this constant back and forth at this point. I'd be on the phone trying to sort this out.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 2, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I think you're handling this very coolly, keep it up!
> 
> To a few folks here saying they're never gunna buy and EBMM, aside from the two on here (unfortunately both XI's) when do you ever hear of issues? Fact is EBMM are 99% of the time completely dead on. I obviously don't know what happened in this situation, but these are the only two QC incidents I've ever seen. I have no loyalty to the brand or anything, but knowing how many other 'high end' USA brands would have dealt with this situation far worse.
> 
> I dunno, the OP's situation really sucks, I'd be so angry at this stage, but I really believe the odds of this happening again are pretty small. Fender wouldn't give you the time of day after this much time, that's if you could even get hold of someone.



It's not just him, or JPRocks, or me that have problems. Just because it's not posted here doesn't mean it's not happening here or elsewhere. I KNOW it is. I know other people who have gotten EBMM's with issues- people on this site even, and I'm quite surprised they've remained silent. Some people like to keep it between themselves and the company (the most professional way) and I'm sure some there are people out there with issues that they aren't even aware of. 

I really disagree with linking them to this thread. One of two things will come out of it: 1) They won't care at all, won't even read it (most likely) or 2) They still don't care, but now we're on their radar and they're aware of us (individually as well as collectively) and they can use it to write us off as some fringe group of people who are just 'haters'. There are personal reasons why I wish you wouldn't have linked this as well and those are probably more important.


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## yidcorer (Aug 2, 2011)

Why did you only take fotos to the frets?


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## Rook (Aug 2, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> It's not just him, or JPRocks, or me that have problems. Just because it's not posted here doesn't mean it's not happening here or elsewhere. I KNOW it is. I know other people who have gotten EBMM's with issues- people on this site even, and I'm quite surprised they've remained silent. Some people like to keep it between themselves and the company (the most professional way) and I'm sure some there are people out there with issues that they aren't even aware of.



I'm aware of the QC issues, and am not looking for a fight about it. I just think that there's always a chance you get a dud (though these guitars haven't exactly been duds, just flawed) when ordering a brand new off the line guitar, and EBMM in my honest (and experienced) opinion aren;t any worse for it then any other well known USA brand. I'm sure it'll all iron itself out, and their CS does make up for some of the crap their QC lets out in my mind.

Never mind, eh? I hope the OP gets his guitar sorted, like somebody said earlier I'd be on the phone to them right this minute.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 2, 2011)

Well so far I havent gotten any further replies. I'm gonna give them a call shortly.

I agree with the you guys about the fact that they do have QC issues in general and a lot of people choose to keep quiet. I almost didn't say anything myself did this time and haven't in the past.

Uncreative123, I am sorry, but I already sent him a link to the thread. I was unaware of any reservations you had (personal or public). On the flip side though, I think EBMM can see that we are trying to be fair and give them a chance. Hopefully they are smart enough to realize that we are not thrashing their guitars (we did CHOOSE to purchase them after all), we are simply disappointed with what we got and are trying to get it rectified. I don't see much- if any- blind bashing going on. But again, I apologize if that link causes any harm and if it does, will do my best to vouch for you (if that does any good).

BTW....have you gotten your guitar back from them yet?


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## tjrlogan (Aug 2, 2011)

yidcorer said:


> Why did you only take fotos to the frets?


 
Sorry, not sure I understand the question?


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## Rook (Aug 2, 2011)

^I don't see any harm with you sending them this, brand image is everything and if they take the view that you're 'haters' then it's in their interest to flip that.

Also, it's anonymous so they have no idea who Uncreative is; if there are as many bad JPXI's as people are implying there won't be any distinction.

Seriously, they're the seller, you're the buyer, you should be able to say whatever the hell you want about their faulty product the whole time you aren't bashing people, they should provide you with the quality you paid for.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 2, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Uncreative123, I am sorry, but I already sent him a link to the thread. I was unaware of any reservations you had (personal or public). On the flip side though, I think EBMM can see that we are trying to be fair and give them a chance. Hopefully they are smart enough to realize that we are not thrashing their guitars (we did CHOOSE to purchase them after all), we are simply disappointed with what we got and are trying to get it rectified. I don't see much- if any- blind bashing going on. But again, I apologize if that link causes any harm and if it does, will do my best to vouch for you (if that does any good).





Many of the members on this forum own a JP model and many that don't are interested in some day buying them. I don't think there's much blind hatred for their company or their guitars here and they generally have a solid reputation. But like you said, you guys are disappointed with the guitars you purchased, and others are disappointed to see your brand new guitars have issues. It's only fair that you guys get the quality in your guitars that you paid for.



Fun111 said:


> ^I don't see any harm with you sending them this, brand image is everything and if they take the view that you're 'haters' then it's in their interest to flip that.



True, but do you really think that they would care to do that given what we see from the EBMM forums?


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## Rook (Aug 2, 2011)

Fair point


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 3, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^I don't see any harm with you sending them this, brand image is everything and if they take the view that you're 'haters' then it's in their interest to flip that.
> 
> Also, it's anonymous so they have no idea who Uncreative is; if there are as many bad JPXI's as people are implying there won't be any distinction.
> 
> Seriously, they're the seller, you're the buyer, you should be able to say whatever the hell you want about their faulty product the whole time you aren't bashing people, they should provide you with the quality you paid for.




Well it's not very hard to figure out who I am when they have two JPXi7's being sent back to them and one is mine and one is his- and when I use the same avatar on their forum and it was under my band's name it wouldn't be hard to connect the dots if they really wanted to. Again, not gonna go into the reasons why, but it probably doesn't matter now anyway.

I still haven't gotten mine back yet and it should've been here by today...or even yesterday.


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## Sunlit Omega (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm late on throwing my two cents in but I'd def expect a two thousand dollar guitar to be as close to flawless as possible.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 5, 2011)

Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted in a couple of days. Wanted to take some time to get things straightened out and consider my options. 

It looks like I'm going to be living with the guitar as is. EBMM wants me to ship it back as they still say the pics show nothing unusual and they need to see for themselves. I'm not going through this process again. The guitar is playable and at this point, I'm just tired of it all. I enjoy playing it and the way it sounds, and - I hate to say it - I'll have to settle for that. I've seen bigger gaps and worse frets on other guitars.

As far as my future with EBMM, I'm not going to buy anything new from them again. I say "new" because if the opportunity comes along for me to grab a used guitar I'm not gonna limit myself. They do put out quality instruments, just not this time . 

I've said it enough times already, but thanks to all for the advice and support. Wish I had a better story to tell. If it's any consolation, my replacement case and t-shirt already arrived (though I'm not gonna be wearing it and advertising EBMM anytime soon).


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## Church2224 (Aug 5, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted in a couple of days. Wanted to take some time to get things straightened out and consider my options.
> 
> It looks like I'm going to be living with the guitar as is. EBMM wants me to ship it back as they still say the pics show nothing unusual and they need to see for themselves. I'm not going through this process again. The guitar is playable and at this point, I'm just tired of it all. I enjoy playing it and the way it sounds, and - I hate to say it - I'll have to settle for that. I've seen bigger gaps and worse frets on other guitars.
> 
> ...




If this is your choice, then we will support it. 

It is clear that EBMM Needs to get their act together and until they do a lot of people are not going to be getting guitars from them. It is unfortunate as they seem to really wanted to help you out a first...

Oh well, Ibanez RGD2127z here I come instead...


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 6, 2011)

Like Church said, if that's your choice then we're behind you. But I still think it's a damn shame that you have to "settle" on what should have been an amazing instrument. Shame on both EBMM and Guitar Center for not doing their best to make sure their customers are completely satisfied.

Sorry for all the trouble you had to go through, dude.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 6, 2011)

Still haven't gotten mine back yet. Sent an e-mail today but didn't hear back. I was told I'd have it by this past Wed.


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## metalstrike (Aug 6, 2011)

Wow, I feel bad for you guys and am absolutely in the company that feels that a $2500 guitar should be damn near perfect.

I also wasn't satisfied with EBMM. I bought a Pearl Redburst JP6 from Amazon a little while back during a sale I found out about here. When I received it, it had badly dressed fret ends and a an overall bland sounding piece of basswood. Needless to say, I was displeased and sent it back. Also, at my local guitar center, I've seen a JPX that had some discoloration of the binding of the fretboard. 

Best of luck to both of you.


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## Nyarlath (Aug 6, 2011)

I've never cared for the particular shape of the EBMM's, but excellent looking and sounding guitar nonetheless!


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 6, 2011)

I should add something that has happened with my JPXI 7 - it doesn't have flaws on the frets or fretboard, but a day or two after it arrived home, the neck back bowed a bit and now I'm getting buzz on the third string, first five frets and even open string, which is really annoying. The truss rod seems already completely loose and I really don't know what to do...


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## tjrlogan (Aug 6, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> I should add something that has happened with my JPXI 7 - it doesn't have flaws on the frets or fretboard, but a day or two after it arrived home, the neck back bowed a bit and now I'm getting buzz on the third string, first five frets and even open string, which is really annoying. The truss rod seems already completely loose and I really don't know what to do...


 
Whoa dude...I feel for ya. I don't know...maybe you should have a local luthier check it out for ya first?


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## atticmike (Aug 6, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> I should add something that has happened with my JPXI 7 - it doesn't have flaws on the frets or fretboard, but a day or two after it arrived home, the neck back bowed a bit and now I'm getting buzz on the third string, first five frets and even open string, which is really annoying. The truss rod seems already completely loose and I really don't know what to do...



well with this kind of journey, you should've had the jp7 checked.


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## Rook (Aug 6, 2011)

metalstrike said:


> Also, at my local guitar center, I've seen a JPX that had some discoloration of the binding of the fretboard.



The JPX doesn't have a binding, it's just a gloss over the black edge of the Ebony fingerboard, the discolouration will be the yellow/grey tigerstripe you get in some pieces. Mine has bits of it all the way up in little stripes in the wood, I quite like it, it looks like Macassar Ebony.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 7, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Whoa dude...I feel for ya. I don't know...maybe you should have a local luthier check it out for ya first?



I've actually already taken it to my local tech and the suggestion was to tune it up a whole step to increase string tension, so that the neck would return in it's normal state, but so far no progress. I hope going up with string gauge and maybe warm it up a little bit will do the trick. 

If anyone has experience or suggestions on this subject, I'm all ears.


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## Invader (Aug 7, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> The truss rod seems already completely loose and I really don't know what to do...



If the guitar has a two way trussrod, it should tighten up if you keep turning it counter-clockwise. When you do that, the trussrod will make the neck more concave.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 7, 2011)

Invader said:


> If the guitar has a two way trussrod, it should tighten up if you keep turning it counter-clockwise. When you do that, the trussrod will make the neck more concave.



Are you 100% sure the truss is dual action? My local tech firmly said it was a single way one...anyway, even if dual action, shouldn't it tighten up only to make the action lower, therefore back-bowing the neck even more?


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 7, 2011)

Francesco, you can try shimming the neck a tad and then straightening the neck. In not too serious cases, this tends to work well. In more severe backbow cases with a single truss rod, it's usually doing a fret job to compensate for it, but considering how new it is... meh.


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## Invader (Aug 7, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Are you 100% sure the truss is dual action? My local tech firmly said it was a single way one...anyway, even if dual action, shouldn't it tighten up only to make the action lower, therefore back-bowing the neck even more?



I don't know which type of truss rod the JPX has. The point of the dual action truss rod however is to work both ways; clockwise to provide back bow, and counter clockwise to provide the concaveness, or "front-bow" (don't know the proper term for this).

Here's a pretty simple explanation:
http://www.godinguitars.com/Double Action truss rod adjustment.pdf


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 7, 2011)

Fred the Shred said:


> Francesco, you can try shimming the neck a tad and then straightening the neck. In not too serious cases, this tends to work well. In more severe backbow cases with a single truss rod, it's usually doing a fret job to compensate for it, but considering how new it is... meh.



It's not actually that backbowed...it's just too damn straight, enough to annoy me with the buzz. You meant shimming the nut, right?


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## metalstrike (Aug 7, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> The JPX doesn't have a binding, it's just a gloss over the black edge of the Ebony fingerboard, the discolouration will be the yellow/grey tigerstripe you get in some pieces. Mine has bits of it all the way up in little stripes in the wood, I quite like it, it looks like Macassar Ebony.





Oops, well good to know.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 7, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted in a couple of days. Wanted to take some time to get things straightened out and consider my options.
> 
> It looks like I'm going to be living with the guitar as is. EBMM wants me to ship it back as they still say the pics show nothing unusual and they need to see for themselves. I'm not going through this process again. The guitar is playable and at this point, I'm just tired of it all. I enjoy playing it and the way it sounds, and - I hate to say it - I'll have to settle for that. I've seen bigger gaps and worse frets on other guitars.
> 
> ...



Is there no way that GC will take the guitar back and get you a replacement from another store? Its just ridiculous to me that you have to settle for a guitar that has obvious QC issues. Anyone looking at the pics can see that (except for EBMM obviously). I'd try to get GC to get you a replacement. Good vibes coming your way bro!

-Phil


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 8, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Is there no way that GC will take the guitar back and get you a replacement from another store? Its just ridiculous to me that you have to settle for a guitar that has obvious QC issues. Anyone looking at the pics can see that (except for EBMM obviously). I'd try to get GC to get you a replacement. Good vibes coming your way bro!
> 
> -Phil



He said earlier in this thread that GC gave him the run around on a replacement, then sending it in for repairs to EBMM put him past the return/exchange period. So GC probably won't do anything.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 8, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> He said earlier in this thread that GC gave him the run around on a replacement, then sending it in for repairs to EBMM put him past the return/exchange period. So GC probably won't do anything.



My next step then would be calling GC's corporate headquarters and talking to someone there. There's gotta be someone who's willing to help you out. 

-Phil


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## tjrlogan (Aug 8, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> My next step then would be calling GC's corporate headquarters and talking to someone there. There's gotta be someone who's willing to help you out.
> 
> -Phil


 
I didn't think about doing that. I honestly haven't tried to pursue the GC route again since the first run around and because I'm now past my return period. I'll try calling the corp HQ to see.


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## yingmin (Aug 8, 2011)

tjrlogan said:


> I didn't think about doing that. I honestly haven't tried to pursue the GC route again since the first run around and because I'm now past my return period. I'll try calling the corp HQ to see.



Try to take care of it at the store level again first. Talk to the store manager (or whoever's highest ranking when you go in), be civil and show them any documentation you have. You've got proof that you've been dealing with EBMM, thus excusing you both from damaging the guitar yourself and bringing it back past the return period, and they'd probably be able to send it back anyway, so they won't have to worry about keeping bad inventory on hand. You should at the very least be able to get in-store credit to order or buy something different, including a different JPXI if that's what you want. Although, if you do get another JPXI, for God's sake check it out before you leave the store!


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well something may or may not have happened to my guitar that's going to make your issue look like nothing (definitely not trying to out-do you in that aspect though, lol). I'm waiting to hear back from MM tomorrow and see how they're going to handle it before I say anything. 

Not looking good right now.


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## atticmike (Aug 10, 2011)

Any progress fellas?


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## cyril v (Aug 10, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Well something may or may not have happened to my guitar that's going to make your issue look like nothing (definitely not trying to out-do you in that aspect though, lol). I'm waiting to hear back from MM tomorrow and see how they're going to handle it before I say anything.
> 
> Not looking good right now.



Holy shit. This is not very encouraging, I think we have only 2/5 of these these guitars (XI-7) on this forum without issue at this point and I've got my fingers crossed that mine doesn't have any trussrod issues, but I haven't had to adjust it yet. Hope everything works out for ya, but I'm assuming you're going to be posting some facepalm worthy pictures very soon.


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## celebro95 (Aug 10, 2011)

as a JPX-7 owner, i really hate this thread, and how EBMM is going with this situations 


don't know, but after this... i think EBMM lost another customer (me)
im trying to get a JPXI-7 or a regular BFR7. i'll buy it used... 


best of luck to all of you guys


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## tjrlogan (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry I haven't posted any updates yet guys. Due to my schedule I usually don't post much during the week. On Friday I'm going to drive up to the GC, speak to the manager, and show them the guitar. 

Uncreative123 - good luck.


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 10, 2011)

Oh wow, this is really discouraging news. Guess I'm definitely not gonna be buying any EBMM new either... Most threads I see on these guitars end up like this, which is 100% unacceptable. I thought the BFR was supposed to mean "no bullshit- everything's checked and perfect". Not!


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 10, 2011)

Well basically what's going on in my situation is that my guitar is M.I.A. Called them after it hadn't shown up days after it was suppose to. I didn't have a tracking # or anything but they did and they looked it up and said it had been delivered. I assured them it hadn't and that I hadn't signed for anything, to which they told me they didn't have the sig. service requested. So basically it was ok to just dump a $2500 guitar on the doorstep and leave it there in the 100+ degree heat. I was gone for about an hour before it was delivered and three hours after it was delivered so I didn't see anything. Neighbors were working and they didn't see anything. MM thinks UPS 'dun-goofed' and still has it, I think that OR it was probably lifted. They are waiting to hear back from them (said it could be a couple days) to see if it shows up and then they'll figure out what to do from there. The person I'm speaking with assures me that they will take care of me. Don't know exactly what that entails though.


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 10, 2011)

^That's BS. I work for GLS Europe (similar to UPS) and I can assure you that it's _not_ common practice to just leave a parcel on the doorstep without prior consent. If EBMM says they didn't give that order and they haven't communicated with you then UPS really needs to fire the driver in question. 
What would have happened in a real world situation is that you'd have come home to find a note in your mailbox saying "We've tried delivering package '#####' to this adress, but found no one home. Please call this number [local UPS office phone number goes here] to arrange a new delivery", and then you'd have called and they'd have told you your options which would have included "deliver it tomorrow", possibly with an optional note on the package telling the driver which hours you'll be home and/or your phone number or "pick it up yourself". Under no circumstances will a parcel be marked as delivered if noone signed for the receipt, so if they have a signature then it's probably the driver's.


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## Larrikin666 (Aug 10, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Well basically what's going on in my situation is that my guitar is M.I.A. Called them after it hadn't shown up days after it was suppose to. I didn't have a tracking # or anything but they did and they looked it up and said it had been delivered. I assured them it hadn't and that I hadn't signed for anything, to which they told me they didn't have the sig. service requested. So basically it was ok to just dump a $2500 guitar on the doorstep and leave it there in the 100+ degree heat. I was gone for about an hour before it was delivered and three hours after it was delivered so I didn't see anything. Neighbors were working and they didn't see anything. MM thinks UPS 'dun-goofed' and still has it, I think that OR it was probably lifted. They are waiting to hear back from them (said it could be a couple days) to see if it shows up and then they'll figure out what to do from there. The person I'm speaking with assures me that they will take care of me. Don't know exactly what that entails though.



At this point, I wouldn't wait on them. I'd request the tracking number. Talk to UPS yourself and push them for an answer.


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 10, 2011)

^Agreed. If MM says it'll take a couple of days then they, or the guy they talked to at UPS, are lying if you ask me. If UPS have their shit together (and they should, they operate worldwide, for Bob's sake!) then they'll be able to look up exactly where the parcel has been and who scanned it at that particular point, and they should be able to locate it within the hour. 
If it _does_ indeed take a couple of days then it means they're investigating the driver's case.


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## MobiusR (Aug 10, 2011)

jesus christ this is total bullshit. This whole thread is a journey from hell and back 


TOTAL NOT ROC


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## cyril v (Aug 10, 2011)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^That's BS. I work for GLS Europe (similar to UPS) and I can assure you that it's _not_ common practice to just leave a parcel on the doorstep without prior consent. If EBMM says they didn't give that order and they haven't communicated with you then UPS really needs to fire the driver in question.
> What would have happened in a real world situation is that you'd have come home to find a note in your mailbox saying "We've tried delivering package '#####' to this adress, but found no one home. Please call this number [local UPS office phone number goes here] to arrange a new delivery", and then you'd have called and they'd have told you your options which would have included "deliver it tomorrow", possibly with an optional note on the package telling the driver which hours you'll be home and/or your phone number or "pick it up yourself". Under no circumstances will a parcel be marked as delivered if noone signed for the receipt, so if they have a signature then it's probably the driver's.



Actually, they (UPS) definitely will deliver a package without a sig if they deem the area "safe". Safe to them means there isn't a lot of traffic or people working/walking nearby. Also, besides that, sometimes if it isn't so safe, they might even bring it to a backdoor, on a porch, behind foliage etc etc and the decision to leave a package unsigned for (even if it was requested) is at the discretion of the driver. If I'm unsure if me or my girlfriend are going to be home or not for a delivery of a costly item, I avoid using UPS at all costs.


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## atticmike (Aug 10, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Well basically what's going on in my situation is that my guitar is M.I.A. Called them after it hadn't shown up days after it was suppose to. I didn't have a tracking # or anything but they did and they looked it up and said it had been delivered. I assured them it hadn't and that I hadn't signed for anything, to which they told me they didn't have the sig. service requested. So basically it was ok to just dump a $2500 guitar on the doorstep and leave it there in the 100+ degree heat. I was gone for about an hour before it was delivered and three hours after it was delivered so I didn't see anything. Neighbors were working and they didn't see anything. MM thinks UPS 'dun-goofed' and still has it, I think that OR it was probably lifted. They are waiting to hear back from them (said it could be a couple days) to see if it shows up and then they'll figure out what to do from there. The person I'm speaking with assures me that they will take care of me. Don't know exactly what that entails though.



If I was you, I would pray for your guitar being lifted off your doorstep by another friendly fella  The package is insured and if it is gone without you having signed for it, there has to be a replacement, meaning a brand new guitar ;P

My theory is that this happened to the very first models going by the 4xxx serials. Mine starts at G53. 

And being honest about the whole quality issue thing with guitars at such a price level (custom), yeah they're obliged to fucking take care of your issue. However, this has happened several times with for example Gibson Custom Shop models without any theory of this being an issue at a brand new production line.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 10, 2011)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^That's BS. I work for GLS Europe (similar to UPS) and I can assure you that it's _not_ common practice to just leave a parcel on the doorstep without prior consent. If EBMM says they didn't give that order and they haven't communicated with you then UPS really needs to fire the driver in question.
> What would have happened in a real world situation is that you'd have come home to find a note in your mailbox saying "We've tried delivering package '#####' to this adress, but found no one home. Please call this number [local UPS office phone number goes here] to arrange a new delivery", and then you'd have called and they'd have told you your options which would have included "deliver it tomorrow", possibly with an optional note on the package telling the driver which hours you'll be home and/or your phone number or "pick it up yourself". Under no circumstances will a parcel be marked as delivered if noone signed for the receipt, so if they have a signature then it's probably the driver's.


 

They said they typically don't do sig. service unless requested. Wasn't aware of that. I think each time I've gotten a guitar from a dealer they've always done it- not sure why MM wants people to request it, I think they probably should've mentioned that/offered it as a possibility. I wouldn't have thought to ask for it.




Larrikin666 said:


> At this point, I wouldn't wait on them. I'd request the tracking number. Talk to UPS yourself and push them for an answer.



They already gave me the tracking #; it says it was delivered. I'm letting MM handle it because they said they're handling it. UPS is already investigating it as a "missing package" or something to that effect. There's really nothing more I can do that they haven't done already. 



cyril v said:


> Actually, they (UPS) definitely will deliver a package without a sig if they deem the area "safe". Safe to them means there isn't a lot of traffic or people working/walking nearby. Also, besides that, sometimes if it isn't so safe, they might even bring it to a backdoor, on a porch, behind foliage etc etc and the decision to leave a package unsigned for (even if it was requested) is at the discretion of the driver. If I'm unsure if me or my girlfriend are going to be home or not for a delivery of a costly item, I avoid using UPS at all costs.



Pretty much. I live in a nice area, but that doesn't mean it's completely devoid of shitty people. It's summer and all day every day for the last two months there have been kids running around all over the place unsupervised. Wouldn't be too hard to tell what's in the box since it seems EBMM plaster the boxes with their stickers.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 11, 2011)

Uncreative, I hope you get your guitar back. That blows man. UPS did the same shit when they brought my limited BFR. 

EBMM is gonna start losing more and more customers with this type of stuff happening. The more the word gets out about the QC issues, the more people there will be dropping their hard earned cash on other brands. 

The one thing I like about Suhr for example is that if you have a QC issue, they send you a UPS call tag, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They also pay for the shipping back to the customer. Now thats good customer service in my book. 

-Phil


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 11, 2011)

Leaving their delivery unattended without prior consent is standard practice? Wow, that's probably the worst thing I've heard for a couple of days. They (UPS) aren't allowed to do that in Europe. But I'd still think it shouldn't take them a couple of days to figure out what happened unless there's a dirty driver involved.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 16, 2011)

So I was told I would hear back Monday (yesterday) or Tuesday with some kind of results. The person I've been speaking with said they were going to speak to their boss (who I can only assume is big poppa s himself) Monday and low and behold after two e-mails (sunday and monday) I haven't heard anything. The only reason that concerns me is because they've been so good about staying in contact with me. 

The UPS driver who dropped off the package came to my door today and had me sign some document that I believe basically stated that I never received the package. The more I think about it, the guy was kind of a dick and I don't know why unless he received some sort of reprimand for this happening (which I don't know why he would since it's something that for the most part would be out of his control.) Still that's not a reason to take it out on me. He made a point of showing me exactly where he left it and said that he's been delivering to this area since it existed and never had a problem like this. He even had some GPS map that he printed out to show me and all this other crap proving it was delivered. And the whole time I'm just thinking "well isn't that a good thing? Would it somehow be more acceptable if this happened frequently?" I'm like...you're not telling me anything I didn't know. Just really weird man. I think we all assumed it had been lifted and didn't expect it to turn up, but EBMM just had to go this route 'just in case' which is understandable. I told him that Music Man had all the contact with them about it and I've pretty much been 3rd party to what's going on. I also told him that I had contacted local pawn shops and gave them the serial # etc. etc. but he didn't seem to care. He just seemed more upset about the fact that this was somehow going to affect him. No sort of sympathy like "oh gee, sorry your $2500 guitar got stolen". 

I'm suppose to get another package here tomorrow from UPS and I'm just absolutely dreading it now because it's going to be so awkward with this guy from here on out.


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## atticmike (Aug 16, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> So I was told I would hear back Monday (yesterday) or Tuesday with some kind of results. The person I've been speaking with said they were going to speak to their boss (who I can only assume is big poppa s himself) Monday and low and behold after two e-mails (sunday and monday) I haven't heard anything. The only reason that concerns me is because they've been so good about staying in contact with me.
> 
> The UPS driver who dropped off the package came to my door today and had me sign some document that I believe basically stated that I never received the package. The more I think about it, the guy was kind of a dick and I don't know why unless he received some sort of reprimand for this happening (which I don't know why he would since it's something that for the most part would be out of his control.) Still that's not a reason to take it out on me. He made a point of showing me exactly where he left it and said that he's been delivering to this area since it existed and never had a problem like this. He even had some GPS map that he printed out to show me and all this other crap proving it was delivered. And the whole time I'm just thinking "well isn't that a good thing? Would it somehow be more acceptable if this happened frequently?" I'm like...you're not telling me anything I didn't know. Just really weird man. I think we all assumed it had been lifted and didn't expect it to turn up, but EBMM just had to go this route 'just in case' which is understandable. I told him that Music Man had all the contact with them about it and I've pretty much been 3rd party to what's going on. I also told him that I had contacted local pawn shops and gave them the serial # etc. etc. but he didn't seem to care. He just seemed more upset about the fact that this was somehow going to affect him. No sort of sympathy like "oh gee, sorry your $2500 guitar got stolen".
> 
> I'm suppose to get another package here tomorrow from UPS and I'm just absolutely dreading it now because it's going to be so awkward with this guy from here on out.


 
Now, what is EBMM / you are going to do about it? Will you have a refund or plead for a replacement?

Quite sick what is going on out there. However, I'd seriously see a quote how often this happened with ESP custom, Gibson custom and so forth.
With Gibson custom shop cunts, I know that issues are not a rare spot over there. 

Just stumbled over a thread on rig-talk which may be of people's interest here:



> No problem. They make killer guitars when they get it right. These are the ones I had with defects:
> 
> BFR JP6 Dargie Delight II - the neck was mis-aligned badly. 5 other EB forumites ordered BFR JP6 DDII's and had this same issue with theirs as well.
> 
> ...


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 16, 2011)

Atticmike, that list of EB's with the defects was my post over on rig-talk. I'm mystidream over there. EB certainly isn't professional about how they treat some customers. 

-Phil


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## atticmike (Aug 16, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Atticmike, that list of EB's with the defects was my post over on rig-talk. I'm mystidream over there. EB certainly isn't professional about how they treat some customers.
> 
> -Phil



dunno how much you'd have to pay for an attorney or whether you have legal protection, I would've sent them the best regards.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 16, 2011)

atticmike said:


> dunno how much you'd have to pay for an attorney or whether you have legal protection, I would've sent them the best regards.



What would I need an attorney for?

-Phil


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 16, 2011)

Well, it's about 3:30 and still not a word. I'm thinking they are going to flake. Will have to call tomorrow. Not happy.


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## atticmike (Aug 16, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> What would I need an attorney for?
> 
> -Phil



well isn't it quite obvious with the way they treated you as a customer?

you could've easily hurt em a lot


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 16, 2011)

atticmike said:


> well isn't it quite obvious with the way they treated you as a customer?
> 
> you could've easily hurt em a lot



I doubt it. I only had a few photos of one of the guitars with the misaligned necks and on top of that, I have no repair receipts or invoices since EB does never sent me anything documenting warranty work on my guitars. 

-Phil


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## atticmike (Aug 17, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I doubt it. I only had a few photos of one of the guitars with the misaligned necks and on top of that, I have no repair receipts or invoices since EB does never sent me anything documenting warranty work on my guitars.
> 
> -Phil


 
yeah if you're missing paperwork things would get more troublesome as they already were :/


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 17, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> What would I need an attorney for?
> 
> -Phil



Yeah uh, ...what? LOL.


Anyway today was a much better day. UPS guy came with another package and we sort of waved at each other so now at least I feel better know it's not going to be awkward every time I get package from them. Music Man got in touch with me (twice) and it sounds like UPS will be footing the bill for the guitar- which is great, but I shudder at what could have been the possible outcome if that were not the case. 

From the way I understood it (and I could be wrong) it sounded like "the boss" wasn't sold on the idea of replacing my guitar at his expense. I didn't inquire as to why since it was irrelevant at that point and it didn't get that far anyway, however I don't think this thread helped my, or anyone's situation, one iota- just like I said. I can't help but imagine that some of the things said in this thread (which were defaming to a degree) played a role in his ('the boss') stance. I can't confirm that, but I really can't see how it would've been perceived in any way other than unfavorable. 

I have no qualms with MM C.S. because 'my guy' seemed to really be rooting for me and said everything would be taken care of and I think he did an A+ job all the way. It's good that they're willing to fix any issues because I just really can't see myself playing any other brand of guitar. I've been sold on EBMM for the last couple years and they're all I own so I really would've dreaded having to switch to another brand if this situation didn't get resolved to my satisfaction. I still have one question for them regarding the above paragraph, which I feel is very important to this situation, but I'm going to sit on it and ponder for awhile. They said it would take approximately four weeks for the new guitar to get to me (because of the build schedule)- which sucks, but it's better than waiting four months or never getting one at all.


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## tjrlogan (Aug 17, 2011)

Well it's good to hear that your situation is getting sorted out, I'm sure we're all rooting for you. I totally understand what you mean by this thread "not helping", but "the boss" should understand that we a right to expect certain quality and express our concerns (defaming aside - most of us try to be reasonable). 

Well anywayz...an update on my situation, and quite frankly...there are no updates. GC couldn't do anything because I am past my return window and the guitar was already sent back to EBMM once (at least that's how they explained it). Like I said before, I am not 100% happy with the way things turned out - BUT I still enjoy the guitar enough to not feel totally jipped. It works fine and feels fine, I'll get over the rest. 

And I know...I've pretty much resigned on the whole issue, but I have bigger things in life to worry about at this point (my kitteh needs surgery & my job situation sucks - but I'm done telling sob stories - time to stay positive).

Thanks for listening everyone!


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## atticmike (Aug 17, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Yeah uh, ...what? LOL.
> 
> 
> Anyway today was a much better day. UPS guy came with another package and we sort of waved at each other so now at least I feel better know it's not going to be awkward every time I get package from them. Music Man got in touch with me (twice) and it sounds like UPS will be footing the bill for the guitar- which is great, but I shudder at what could have been the possible outcome if that were not the case.
> ...


 
Since the package was insured, why couldn't you just plead for a refund and get your desired six string after inspection in a regular music store?


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 17, 2011)

atticmike said:


> Since the package was insured, why couldn't you just plead for a refund and get your desired six string after inspection in a regular music store?




Well, I didn't buy the guitar directly from them so I don't see how that would work. I don't even know if the package was insured when they sent it; I never really got the details of all that. I'm fine with what they're do, though honestly I didn't even think to ask about something like that.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 21, 2011)

Uncreative, any update on your guitar, brother?

-Phil


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 21, 2011)

Not trying to stir anything up here, but I've seen how the couple guys in this thread have been treated by EBMM, and I totally disapprove of how people are treated by them. Here's a pic of the message that I get when I try to log in on their forum with my old username. This pic is a screenshot and is not photoshopped or anything. This is coming from a supposed "professional" company who builds quality products, as we can clearly see from the pics in this thread and the testimonials of paying customers. 

Absolute deplorable behavior by some certain folks at EBMM, in my opinion.







-Phil


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 22, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Uncreative, any update on your guitar, brother?
> 
> -Phil




I should have a new one in a few weeks. That's about it. Won't really have anything to update or contribute until it gets here.

Also- I don't know if the forum is moderated entirely by actual employees of EBMM. I think some of them aren't- but I could be wrong.


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## simonXsludge (Aug 22, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


>


that cum blast tab... so funny, dude. now i know more about you than i needed to...


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## atticmike (Aug 22, 2011)

shitsøn;2629353 said:


> that cum blast tab... so funny, dude. now i know more about you than i needed to...


 
mate, you're getting the wrong picture! 

He's just dropped a hint on the two-faced bitch metaphor. 

Regardless of the neighboring cumfest, someone has to sort those fools out...


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## Stealth7 (Aug 22, 2011)

shitsøn;2629353 said:


> that cum blast tab... so funny, dude. now i know more about you than i needed to...



 Funny shit!


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## AySay (Aug 22, 2011)

shitsøn;2629353 said:


> that cum blast tab... so funny, dude. now i know more about you than i needed to...





I looked up the vid...2 words...plastic...dick...


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## atticmike (Aug 22, 2011)

AySay said:


> I looked up the vid...2 words...plastic...dick...


 
maybe this came up when he searched for how to take a screenshot on a mac ^^ 

however two faced bitch and cum blast go hand in hand kind of


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 22, 2011)

I just posted the screenshot because I thought it was totally ridiculous that someone at EBMM would be that unprofessional to write such a thing. I still can't believe it.

-Phil


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## AySay (Aug 22, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> I just posted the screenshot because I thought it was totally ridiculous that someone at EBMM would be that unprofessional to write such a thing. I still can't believe it.
> 
> -Phil



Definitely, total dick move on EBMM's part. In a way...you could say both tabs are about huge dicks, and "bitches".


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## Whitestrat (Aug 23, 2011)

petruccirocks02 said:


> Not trying to stir anything up here, but I've seen how the couple guys in this thread have been treated by EBMM, and I totally disapprove of how people are treated by them. Here's a pic of the message that I get when I try to log in on their forum with my old username. This pic is a screenshot and is not photoshopped or anything. This is coming from a supposed "professional" company who builds quality products, as we can clearly see from the pics in this thread and the testimonials of paying customers.
> 
> Absolute deplorable behavior by some certain folks at EBMM, in my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
Whoa... THAT? on a "corporate" website? That's not quite right... not at all.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 23, 2011)

Whitestrat said:


> Whoa... THAT? on a "corporate" website? That's not quite right... not at all.



Yup, not very professional behavior for a company running their own forum. 

-Phil


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## killertone (Aug 23, 2011)

When it comes down to it, you guys that keep buying EBMM guitars even though you have received flawed/shoddily-built products from them in the past are giving them all the power in the world to treat you however they want. 

I have read through this thread and am blown away that some people have bought multiple guitars from them after having problem after problem with previous guitars. 

"Thank you sir, may I have another!?"


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## Swippity Swappity (Aug 23, 2011)

I was considering buying a new JP7 as my next guitar, but I'm kinda nervous now. I may still buy an EBMM, but I think I'll go used if I do.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 23, 2011)

After having as many defective ones as I've had, I started buying them used and thats what I've done ever since. 

-Phil


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## Rook (Aug 23, 2011)

Sounds stupid, I actually sold my JPX out of irritation at the company; Sterling being a prize ass and this fairly shoddy treatment of customers. I just don't wanna be associated with a company like that.

I liked my JPX sure, but it's out of my system now. The Mayones I was gunning for didn't work out so I'll probably just stick with my first love, Jackson USA.


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## Furtive Glance (Aug 23, 2011)

This thread depresses me. That thing with Phil's ban still just boggles my mind. I've always bought these guitars used and will continue to do so. I don't care for the "upgraded" models anyway and those seem to be the most commonly affected. Also realized I'm posting less and less over there...


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## atticmike (Aug 24, 2011)

Dunno, you should obtain these informations and keep em in the back of your head but judging the company by the experience of someone else probably not the best thing to do.

Imagine I would treat people in line with their rumors. Wouldn't be so nice right mate?

It may be a warning sign but you never know what really happened with no offense towards Phil.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 24, 2011)

atticmike said:


> It may be a warning sign but you never know what really happened with no offense towards Phil.



You can still find the thread that resulted in his ban on their forums, so in this case you kind of can see what happened.


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## atticmike (Aug 24, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> You can still find the thread that resulted in his ban on their forums, so in this case you kind of can see what happened.


 
The question is was this done by Sterling himself or was it just a retarded employee ?


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 24, 2011)

atticmike said:


> The question is was this done by Sterling himself or was it just a retarded employee ?



Don't know, but whether it was Sterling or an employee still makes it a bad move on the company's behalf. There is the possibility that it was a random moderator that doesn't belong to the company, but if this is how they ban people they should be more selective with who they pick to moderate their forums.


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## yellowv (Aug 26, 2011)

To all the guys that think Sterling is nothing but a dick and the Music Man forum is horrible read this thread.

2 year Anniversary, or.. "The Day the Forum Saved me Life"


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## Church2224 (Aug 26, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Sounds stupid, I actually sold my JPX out of irritation at the company; Sterling being a prize ass and this fairly shoddy treatment of customers. I just don't wanna be associated with a company like that.
> 
> I liked my JPX sure, but it's out of my system now. The Mayones I was gunning for didn't work out so I'll probably just stick with my first love, Jackson USA.




Well now, Jackson USA is never a bad choice

And from what I read over at JCF, they do a good or at least decent job at fixing stuff when it goes wrong and have a good dealer return policy.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 27, 2011)

yellowv said:


> To all the guys that think Sterling is nothing but a dick and the Music Man forum is horrible read this thread.
> 
> 2 year Anniversary, or.. "The Day the Forum Saved me Life"





I don't get it. How does other peoples generosity amount to sterling being a standup citizen? The thread was a little confusing, but from what I gathered it said 'if the forum members raise $2500 he gets a free guitar'; is that like a matching contribution (401k style) or the forum members actually had to pay the 2500 and then he sent the guitar? If it's the first one and he got to keep the money to cover some of his medical bills than that's cool, but If it's the later, than that's really sad.


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## yellowv (Aug 27, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> I don't get it. How does other peoples generosity amount to sterling being a standup citizen? The thread was a little confusing, but from what I gathered it said 'if the forum members raise $2500 he gets a free guitar'; is that like a matching contribution (401k style) or the forum members actually had to pay the 2500 and then he sent the guitar? If it's the first one and he got to keep the money to cover some of his medical bills than that's cool, but If it's the later, than that's really sad.



The dude got $7000 from forum members to help with medical bills and Sterling gave him the guitar. Sterling and EBMM got nothing. They gave a loyal customer going through hard times the bass he wanted and helped raise a bunch of money to help on top of it.


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## yellowv (Aug 27, 2011)

Erin Payne reminds us to never underestimate the kindness of bass players - Music - Signal to Noise - Pittsburgh City Paper


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 27, 2011)

yellowv said:


> *The dude got $7000 from forum members* to help with medical bills and Sterling gave him the guitar. Sterling and EBMM got nothing. They gave a loyal customer going through hard times the bass he wanted and helped raise a bunch of money to help on top of it.




Emphasis, mine. I'm not denying the good that he did by getting the ball rolling on this, but to say that he and EBMM "got nothing" is a gross understatement. They got a nice little PR piece (the one you showed us) which isn't something you can readily buy like advertising and 'giving' a guitar away, albeit a small sum, still amounts to a tax write-off. Clearly that wasn't the intention behind it, but that is the reality of the matter from a business perspective. 
You describe him as a 'loyal customer'. So that means a guy who has spent thousands, probably tens of thousands of dollars, gets a comp'd guitar. Of course sterling wasn't obligated to do this and took it upon himself, but in the end would you view this as a net gain or loss?
Look at my situation- my guitar gets stolen and it sounds like he doesn't even give a shit, let alone want to cover it, and the only reason it's being taken care of is because UPS is taking the blame and covering it- not Music Man. There's no PR angle to take and run with from a stolen guitar. I think that's why people have been so vocal in this thread- because it's our stories that are the ones that go unheard. 

I really don't care anymore and would actually like to see this thread ended. There is no 'pulling a man from a burning car' story that you can share with us that is going to convince us otherwise that we've just got him pegged all wrong. Again, I would like to reiterate the fact that I don't have a problem with anyone at Music Man/customer service, and not just because I know they're reading this, but because they've been easy to deal with and top notch overall, and I don't have any personal beef with sterling, I just really don't think he does the company any good with the way he conducts himself and should stay off the internet/forums altogether.


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## metalvince333 (Aug 27, 2011)

I dont want to stir up some shit but I did play a jpx that buzzed so much it sounded like a sitar..brand new and in a guitar shop..ebmm's quality control seems to be going down... I always liked the old jp's and bfr's but the jpx doesnt feel that good to me and that one sounding awful.. I dunno man.


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## yellowv (Aug 27, 2011)

It sucks but if UPS delivered your guitar and it was stolen how would that be the fault or.responsibility of EBMM? UPS should cover it.


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## cyril v (Aug 27, 2011)

For starters they should require signature, have the package insured and at the very least give the tracking number to the recipient.


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## petruccirocks02 (Aug 27, 2011)

yellowv said:


> It sucks but if UPS delivered your guitar and it was stolen how would that be the fault or.responsibility of EBMM? UPS should cover it.



It would be common sense that a guitar company that is sending out $2000+ guitars every day should use signature confirmation and insurance. This is just another example of corners being cut. Now because of that, a customer who initially had his guitar repaired has to wait 4 months for another guitar to be built because the company isn't smart enough to use signature required or insurance? Sounds like yet another customer got screwed. I think you'd be pissed if that happened with one of your EBMM's and you were in that guy's shoes. 

-Phil


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## yellowv (Sep 8, 2011)

EBMM just shipped my guitar back to me after repair. They asked if I wanted it to be signed for or not and gave me a tracking # right away. His situation certainly sucks, and I feel for him, but you can't fault EBMM for someone stealing a guitar off a doorstep. However if I had the issues he has I would actually be happy to wait and get a brand new guitar.


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## Uncreative123 (Sep 8, 2011)

yellowv said:


> EBMM just shipped my guitar back to me after repair. They asked if I wanted it to be signed for or not and gave me a tracking # right away. His situation certainly sucks, and I feel for him, but you can't fault EBMM for someone stealing a guitar off a doorstep. However if I had the issues he has I would actually be happy to wait and get a brand new guitar.



The reason they asked you is because of my situation, so you're welcome. They told me (which I relayed on here) that it is not customary to add signature service unless requested. It seems now that they are offering it as an option rather than waiting for it to be requested- as they should be doing. 

My entire situation could have been avoided in the first place had they done this- so yes, I believe they ARE at some fault here. What's there to be happy about with having to wait for a new guitar? My guitar basically was new and in perfection condition (aside from what they had to fix). It's essentially the same thing...but having to wait a month now.


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