# Blackmachine F8 (Big pictures alert)



## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

Doug's been kind enough to lend me his personal guitar for a few weeks. I've played the F8s before, but never got over the initial "holy crap, this thing has 8 strings and crazy frets" stage, so I'm really looking forward to seeing if living with it for a while will inspire me to be creative with an 8 string, or if I'll just find it to be overkill.

Anyway, pics:



























(Hard to get steady photos with a point-and-shoot since it's so grey outside)

Right, so spec's are:

Chambered 40 year-old mahogany body
Very thick burl maple top
Madagascar rosewood neck, with ebony fillets
Bubinga sapwood fretboard
Black binding
25.5"-28" fanned scale
Haeussel pickups
Sperzel tuner
Custom 9-84 strings

It's odd because the guitar has been on the site for a couple of years now, and I always thought it looked like the ugly duckling of the lot, but when you see it in person, it's a whole different story. Suddenly it looks much more "unified" as a guitar, the colours are far more organic looking and complement each other beautifully. The burl top in particular has an exceptional 3D-ness to it, and is amazing to look at up close. The sapwood fretboard's two tone look is wicked and very classy without looking showy.

The guitar is set up as I've come to expect from Doug. The action is absolutely on the deck, but somehow doesn't fret out or sound choked. The intonation is spot on, full 8-string chords ring clearly in tune all the way up on the highest frets.
The string spacing is much smaller than on a conventional instrument, which at first is a little strange, but once you get used to it, it actually makes string changes exceptionally easy for both picking and fretting hands. String skipping and sweeping is almost laughably easy. It also means that the neck width is nothing like you'd expect for an 8-string - literally about as wide as the neck of my RG7321. The neck profile is very comfortable, very soft shouldered with a flattened back that become more pronounced the higher up the neck you go. The fretboard radius practically flat.

Bizarrely, the thing that looks craziest about the guitar has had the least impact on my playing - the fanned frets. I'd liken the transition as about as awkward as going from a 25.5" scale guitar to a 24.75" one or vice versa, it feels a bit odd at first, but you soon completely forget. The way the frets are fanned makes chording at the low end extremely comfortable - the frets are angled in exactly the way your fingers fall naturally, and many chord shapes are in fact easier than on a regular six string. Descending through the strings, the graduation of scale is such that you barely notice the increased stretch. As you work up the neck, the fan starts to get more severe, but it has caused me literally no problems whatsoever. The angle of the bridge naturally falls parallel with the angle of your palm, and feels completely intuitive. 

Finally, the sound of the thing.. What a fucking monster. I'm floored by the tone of the thing. It's quite hard to know where to start here.
Play something using top the 6 strings and it sounds exactly as you'd expect a 6 string guitar to, which is quite bizarre at first. I'm sitting here playing along to Jeff Buckley and if you couldn't see what I was using, you'd assume it was a perfectly normal six string. The notes have the midrange that you expect from a standard scale instrument, and have a beautiful sweetness to their tone, while still having a very dynamic and fast attack. The clarity is crazy, it's very much like a B2 in the higher registers, in fact, perhaps with BKPs in it'd sound pretty much identical.
As you work down the strings, you can hear the midrange pulling back a tad, and a ferocious low end clarity creeping in. By the time you get to the 8th string the thing roars like nothing else I've come across, so much brutality and fullness, but the fundamental rings through perfectly. At the moment I'm really enjoying drop E tuning, and it's just silly how clear powerchords on the lowest strings still sound fantastic. Even with the neck pickup there's no wooliness, just a woodier tone that sounds extremely cool.
Clean, the low strings sound very jazzy and smooth - you really could work on accompanying chordal work with basslines, like an acoustic player might. Lots of scope for creativity here.

I've only picked it up yesterday evening, so I've barely started messing with the possiblities, and I'm still getting to grips with having so many strings under my fingers, but I'm extremely excited and refreshed by the experience. I have a feeling I will miss this a hell of a lot when I have to return it.

Just as a footnote, this isn't my guitar, so I'm not trying to justify money spent here or anything. There is no hidden agenda, just trying to spread the work about a fantastic (in my opinion) instrument.

If anyone wants particular pictures of it from certain angles or whatever, just say so and I'll try to take some more.


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## ShadyDavey (Feb 9, 2009)

Its a thing of beauty to be sure - the oddness of the fanned frets and pickup angles is a little suprising at first, but clearly once you get beyond those concerns its made that way for a reason.

Another guitar to go on the list, even tho I've never played an 8


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## loktide (Feb 9, 2009)

thanks for the informative review 

i already find it looks much nicer on your pics than on what i've seen so far.

you should do some clips if you find the time


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## hufschmid (Feb 9, 2009)

Very beautiful Guitar


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## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

Cheers guys!

I'll have this for a little bit, so I should definitely find time to make a clip/video or two. First I want to get more used to having 8 strings under my hands though!


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## TomAwesome (Feb 9, 2009)

I've seen pics of it before, but it's still a damn nice lookin' axe.


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## hmmm_de_hum (Feb 9, 2009)

Ah yeah you mentioned this, looks phenominal, cant wait for clips/vids.


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## hairychris (Feb 9, 2009)

I've played that thing a few times and could never work it out...!! It always sounded incredible through the VH4, though.

I think that it was originally built as a demo piece (along with the spalt B2 from the website) for the 2007 LGS, certainly that was where I had a play with it first.

Insane thing.


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## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

hairychris said:


> I've played that thing a few times and could never work it out...!! It always sounded incredible through the VH4, though.
> 
> I think that it was originally built as a demo piece (along with the spalt B2 from the website) for the 2007 LGS, certainly that was where I had a play with it first.
> 
> Insane thing.



Yeah that's right, it was a showpiece for the LGS, and it does sound unholy with the VH4.
I got to check out the fretboard for your B7, which looked fantastic. He wouldn't show me the body, said it was a surprise hahah. Apparently might be done by the end of the week, you must be excited!


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## obiwan (Feb 9, 2009)

Hi Nolly,

This instrument looks fabulous!! I am waiting for the delivery of a B8, hopefully during february and am extremely curious about the playability and the sound of these instruments. 
I hope you will have a lot of fun with this guitar, even if its only for a restricted period of time.
As you offered to do more pics, would it be possible to have a close up of the headstock? I wonder how the tuning mechanics look in relation to the headstock, as this part of the guitar was the first that catched my eye from an esthetical point of view.

Thanks


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## Mattmc74 (Feb 9, 2009)

That is one bad ass guitar!


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## Snorelax (Feb 9, 2009)

I have always loved that guitar in every picture that I have seen it in, but it looks even better in these.
Please do make some clips/vids


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## Daemoniac (Feb 9, 2009)

Oh my god... that guitar is just beautiful  So... do you want to, like, send it to me? In Australia? I... um... promise you'll get it back?...


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## chimp_spanner (Feb 9, 2009)

Good review - clearly passionate about your BM's  But from what I've seen, with good reason! Really looking forward to hearing what you can do with it. 

And by looking forward to, I mean dreading. 

Because suddenly mine will suck!


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## hairychris (Feb 9, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Yeah that's right, it was a showpiece for the LGS, and it does sound unholy with the VH4.
> I got to check out the fretboard for your B7, which looked fantastic. He wouldn't show me the body, said it was a surprise hahah. Apparently might be done by the end of the week, you must be excited!



Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!! WIN!!!!

I smell a NGD.

Cheers Nolly, I'm excited now!


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## Maniacal (Feb 9, 2009)

Good man, welcome to the F8 Brotherhood 

Beautiful guitar, almost exactly the same as mine although the bridge is different. You should seriously consider buying it.


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## Dyingsea (Feb 9, 2009)

Fanned frets are the only way to go when you get into the 8 string+ realm. I'm sure it's an amazing player.


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## AZ7 (Feb 9, 2009)

That is radically awesome. I can only imagine the sound to be the same. Thanks for sharing.


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## Randy (Feb 9, 2009)

That burl top is amazing.


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## Decipher (Feb 9, 2009)

Fucking hell that thing looks sweet!


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## somn (Feb 9, 2009)

looks nice man love the look it has


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 9, 2009)

whoah!

i do love the blackamchine look! 

what strings do you have on there? and how is the tension in drop E?


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## Lakeflower (Feb 9, 2009)

That is wicked.


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## Fred (Feb 9, 2009)

I do _not_ envy you having to give that back, haha.


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## DaveCarter (Feb 9, 2009)

Ooooooooo pretty  Hows do the fanned frets work out for string bends? For some reason I always imagined you wouldnt be able to bend properly all the way up the neck...?


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## bulb (Feb 9, 2009)

she will be mine, oh yes, she will be mine...


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## Ze Kink (Feb 9, 2009)

That thing is really pretty, I want to hear it!

If it isn't a problem, could you measure how wide the nut is and how wide the fretboard is on the 1st fret?


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## noodleplugerine (Feb 9, 2009)

Absolutely insanely awesome nolly.


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## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks guys, I took the F8 into college today and it certainly turned heads. I think I've decided I'm going to have to get one. Handily I have a 2009 guitar slot so it may just have to be an F8..



obiwan said:


> Hi Nolly,
> 
> This instrument looks fabulous!! I am waiting for the delivery of a B8, hopefully during february and am extremely curious about the playability and the sound of these instruments.
> I hope you will have a lot of fun with this guitar, even if its only for a restricted period of time.
> ...




Hey dude, thanks!
I took this one earlier, if it's not the angle you wanted, I'll take another when it's light tomorrow:







This one also came out alright, but the others were too blurry:








MF_Kitten said:


> what strings do you have on there? and how is the tension in drop E?


9-84 set, the tension is definitely very usable in drop E. 



chavhunter said:


> Hows do the fanned frets work out for string bends? For some reason I always imagined you wouldnt be able to bend properly all the way up the neck...?



Absolutely no different to bending on a conventional guitar, literally no difference at all. Pretty cool 



Ze Kink said:


> If it isn't a problem, could you measure how wide the nut is and how wide the fretboard is on the 1st fret?


Around 51mm


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## Apophis (Feb 9, 2009)

just awesome guitar


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## troyguitar (Feb 9, 2009)

I'll take 3.


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## phaeded0ut (Feb 9, 2009)

Nolly, 

Really pretty instrument, I love the headstock on those Blackmachine guitars. Also glad to read that you're going to consider purchasing one for yourself! 

Can't wait to hear more from the beastie.


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## hairychris (Feb 9, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Thanks guys, I took the F8 into college today and it certainly turned heads.


Not much of a surprise there!


-Nolly- said:


> I think I've decided I'm going to have to get one. Handily I have a 2009 guitar slot so it may just have to be an F8..


Not much of a surprise there either.

You know Doug's got some snakewood left..?


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## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

hairychris said:


> Not much of a surprise there!
> 
> Not much of a surprise there either.
> 
> You know Doug's got some snakewood left..?



Hahah, well, I do know that, but I have the next build pretty much mapped out, and it does involve a certain fretboard material that Doug is expecting to receive shipment of soon. Only problem is the billets could be too short for an ERG, so that remains to be seen when they arrive.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 9, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> 9-84 set, the tension is definitely very usable in drop E.



well yeah, i should think so! 

damn, look at that thing... i love how montrous string gauges look on guitars, when you have the transition from the tiny little .09 to the monster at the end there 

the whole thing just looks gorgeos, man! and i agree that i dont envy you having to return it, haha! 

so after handling it fora bit, would you consider actally getting one for yourself? (sorry if you answered it and i missed it )


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## wannabguitarist (Feb 9, 2009)

Jesus fucking Christ that's a beautiful guitar


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## bulb (Feb 9, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> so after handling it fora bit, would you consider actally getting one for yourself? (sorry if you answered it and i missed it )



yes he is (just read a few posts up )


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## Ze Kink (Feb 9, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Around 51mm



Righty, then I guess the 55mm I spec'd for my upcoming custom was pretty correct  I don't like very narrow nuts as I can't play chords comfortably with them. I was thinking it might be too wide actually with the fanned frets, but if the 51mm still feels narrow, then I'm sure it'll be fine.


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## Se7enMeister (Feb 9, 2009)

always wanted to try fanned....


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## Stealthdjentstic (Feb 9, 2009)

That burl top looks like raw win


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## SymmetricScars (Feb 9, 2009)

Gorgeous guitar!

Thanks for the review


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## -Nolly- (Feb 9, 2009)

Ze Kink said:


> Righty, then I guess the 55mm I spec'd for my upcoming custom was pretty correct  I don't like very narrow nuts as I can't play chords comfortably with them. I was thinking it might be too wide actually with the fanned frets, but if the 51mm still feels narrow, then I'm sure it'll be fine.



Interesting, glad that was helpful. 
I've gotta say though, having got used to the narrow spacing on the F8, the economy of movement that it allows is very addictive. 

Thanks to everyone that has commented!


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## Chritar (Feb 9, 2009)

wow, that guitar is gorgeous, GAS


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## obiwan (Feb 10, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> ..
> 
> Hey dude, thanks!
> I took this one earlier, if it's not the angle you wanted, I'll take another when it's light tomorrow:


 

Thank you Nolly, I really appreciate!

I only can repeat myself, this guitar is f...ing amazing!!


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 10, 2009)

bulb said:


> yes he is (just read a few posts up )



ah, i managed to miss the last few posts on the 3rd page, they just updated right past me.

i wish i could take an 8 string to school...

i wish i had a reason to take an 8 string to school...

if you&#180;re messing with me using the "" smileys way too much, that&#180;s a nasty habit msn messenger infused into my muscle memory in junior high.


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## march (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks a ton for the pics, really awesome instrument

I saw you posted the nut width as 51mm and said the string spacing is narrower, if I may ask, could you take a caliper or some ruler to it and measure the string spacing at the nut and bridge ? That'd be awesome.

Reason is, I have been looking at the non-parallel FretFind 2D calculator a lot lately (toying with the idea of building myself a guitar) but the exact string spacing measurement has been eluding me. Even tried calculating using the Kahler bridges specs on their website, but it's all too approximate. This one got me dying to know ! 

cheers !


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## bulb (Feb 10, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> ah, i managed to miss the last few posts on the 3rd page, they just updated right past me.
> 
> i wish i could take an 8 string to school...
> 
> ...



aw its ok, its all jokeyjokes, besides i say "haha" every third word haha!


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 10, 2009)

bulb said:


> aw its ok, its all jokeyjokes, besides i say "haha" every third word haha!



i wasn&#180;t hurt, hence the use of a grinning emoticon at the end there, see?

also, i updated my user title to more accurately reflect my nagging nature on the forums 

it&#180;s all done with lurb!

(also, shouldn&#180;t that read "aw its haha ok, its haha all jokeyjokes haha, besides i haha say "haha" haha every third haha word haha!" then? )


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## LI3G3KILL3R (Feb 10, 2009)

Incredible guitar. Thanks for the info and pics!


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## Chritar (Feb 10, 2009)

bulb and mf make me laugh


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Feb 10, 2009)

Is a deposit required to get on the waiting list? I emailed Doug last week and he hasn't replied yet. Probably because he is insanely busy. But if it doesn't require any deposit I'll get on the list right away since I'll have enough for a guitar from him by 2010 for sure.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 10, 2009)

Chritar said:


> bulb and mf make me laugh



see? if you bother someone for long enough, they end up being friends with you! 

*bothers society*

at least i still have a sense of self-irony about it, eh? 



Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> Is a deposit required to get on the waiting list? I emailed Doug last week and he hasn't replied yet. Probably because he is insanely busy. But if it doesn't require any deposit I'll get on the list right away since I'll have enough for a guitar from him by 2010 for sure.



since people sell their "slots" every once and again, i think you pay for what you order, and then he makes it when he comes as far as you (After clearing up changes of mind or new ownes, hah!)


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## -Nolly- (Feb 10, 2009)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> Is a deposit required to get on the waiting list? I emailed Doug last week and he hasn't replied yet. Probably because he is insanely busy. But if it doesn't require any deposit I'll get on the list right away since I'll have enough for a guitar from him by 2010 for sure.



Nope, the waiting list is no-obligation. No deposit required until just before Doug starts building you guitar.
The people (I think it's just one person actually) selling their spots were from the previous waiting list system, where a deposit was needed to secure the place.


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## sakeido (Feb 10, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> since people sell their "slots" every once and again, i think you pay for what you order, and then he makes it when he comes as far as you (After clearing up changes of mind or new ownes, hah!)



AFAIK that was just me since I was disappointed by the blackmachine I played among other reasons.. don't bank on it happening again


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## hairychris (Feb 11, 2009)

Apparently a few B6 slots changed hands too, but they were more along the lines of refunds paid & next person on the list contacted.

And I ceratinly hope that he's too busy building stuff for _me_ to answer mere mortals' e-mails!


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey, that&#180;s pretty cool! if he&#180;s not taking deposits, it&#180;ll be easier to decide to get one. problem is, the lists might get totally flooded with undecided people who can&#180;t really raise the cash


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## obiwan (Feb 11, 2009)

hairychris said:


> Apparently a few B6 slots changed hands too, but they were more along the lines of refunds paid & next person on the list contacted.
> 
> And I ceratinly hope that he's too busy building stuff for _me_ to answer mere mortals' e-mails!


 
yes, he takes some time to reply, and sometimes no answer comes at all. just keep trying...


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## hairychris (Feb 11, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> Hey, that´s pretty cool! if he´s not taking deposits, it´ll be easier to decide to get one. problem is, the lists might get totally flooded with undecided people who can´t really raise the cash



The 'people' side of the business is his least favourite for reasons like this, let's put it like that!  Email also isn't the best way to contact him about specifics, but if you've asked to be put on the list you're on the list. Don't worry, but don't hold your breath either!


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## Pauly (Feb 11, 2009)

I've held this guitar (upside down being a lefty freak), it sounds incredible, looks incredible and... well, is just incredible. Def going fanned if I ever get an 8.


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## bulb (Feb 12, 2009)

Pauly said:


> I've held this guitar (upside down being a lefty freak), it sounds incredible, looks incredible and... well, is just incredible. Def going fanned if I ever get an 8.



i have held it as well, and frankly...it sold me! ...literally!!


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## Pauly (Feb 12, 2009)

The thing I noticed most was the neck, I couldn't believe it was a 8-string, it felt a bit wider than my 7 but if anything was thinner. One of the few times I wished I was right-handed so I could have had a play on it.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 12, 2009)

bulb said:


> i have held it as well, and frankly...it sold me! ...literally!!



who got you?

how much did they give for you?

but on a serious note, i´m wondering what the chambered-part of the construction adds to the sound (like, versus a non-chambered one). i´m pretty sure it adds a certain resonance that probably sounds awesome for leads and stuff. amirite?

i´d be scared to get a chambered guitar without being 100% sure beforehand, i´m too skeptical of what it entails (feedback? unfavourable loss of tightness?)
i´m sure there´s nothing negative about it though, i mean doug actually decided to make it that way, and on an 8 string too... so there´s gotta be something to it!


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## Yen (Feb 12, 2009)

Awsome guitar Nolly, the fretboard on it must be from the same batch of wood as my B8.








Do you know where Doug gets the custom string sets made?


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## Nick (Feb 12, 2009)

here were you at the meshuggah gig in the garage sporting a blackmachine tshirt?


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## bulb (Feb 12, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> who got you?
> 
> how much did they give for you?
> 
> ...



now i may be wrong because although doug explained this to me in detail i have terriboo memory, but i believe that it basically lightens the instrument whilst also enhancing resonance or sustain or something, but it definitely doesnt affect tightness or anything (in all honesty i think thats more down to the pickups anyways)
but keep in mind that modern les pauls are chambered as well for the very same reasons so you can always try one of those to see if you can see any downsides to chambered guitars...
at any rate if you are actually serious about getting one, you could always call or email doug!


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## Yen (Feb 12, 2009)

Nick said:


> here were you at the meshuggah gig in the garage sporting a blackmachine tshirt?



Me, nope.


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## -Nolly- (Feb 12, 2009)

As Misha says, the chambering changes the resonance of the body though the exact difference is very difficult to describe in words. It is not the same as a semi-hollow design though, you don't get and feedback issues, and it certainly doesn't affect tightness.



Yen said:


> Awsome guitar Nolly, the fretboard on it must be from the same batch of wood as my B8.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's probably the same piece.
The strings Doug uses are these: Welcome to Newtone Strings. There are several options though, so you'd need to speak to Doug to find out the specs he goes for.



Nick said:


> here were you at the meshuggah gig in the garage sporting a blackmachine tshirt?
> 
> 
> Yen said:
> ...



Me neither I'm afraid.


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## Nick (Feb 13, 2009)

Yen said:


> Me, nope.



i just remember seeing a guy walking about with a blackmachine tshirt on. its not something you see regularly in glasgow. most folk who play guitar wouldnt know or have heard the name before.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 13, 2009)

Yen said:


> Awsome guitar Nolly, the fretboard on it must be from the same batch of wood as my B8.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OW!

stop poking my GAS bladder!


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## obiwan (Feb 13, 2009)

Yen said:


> Do you know where Doug gets the custom string sets made?


 
Hy Yen, your guitar looks really amazing, everything seems just perfect on what I can see!! Congratulations!!

This is what Doug answered when I asked him about the strings: "When I designed the 8 there was nothing except for bass strings available, which do not provide the best tone for guitar. So I develeloped my own set of 8 matched guitar strings, 8-11-15-22-32-42-60-80 tuning standard with low B and F#. You can tune lower. I think D'Addario make suitable strings also."

Personally I will first have to try how a 80gauge feels and sounds on a 28" scale, and then decide whether going for thinner strings or not.

Some here in the forum suggested also:www.juststring.com.


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## Maniacal (Feb 13, 2009)

The F# on my F8 is a .86


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## obiwan (Feb 13, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> The F# on my F8 is a .86


 
still guitar string or yet bass string?


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## Maniacal (Feb 13, 2009)

Guitar string.


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## obiwan (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow!!

Don't think I will need that, but it must sound massive!! May I ask you where you get your strings from (just in case)? 

thanks


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## GazPots (Feb 13, 2009)

Nick said:


> i just remember seeing a guy walking about with a blackmachine tshirt on. its not something you see regularly in glasgow. most folk who play guitar wouldnt know or have heard the name before.




So true!


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## bulb (Feb 18, 2009)

YAY! IM BUYING THIS GUITAR!!
Nolly take care of it for me in the meantime!!


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## Mattayus (Feb 18, 2009)

bulb said:


> YAY! IM BUYING THIS GUITAR!!
> Nolly take care of it for me in the meantime!!



Haha shit man, you've really been bitten by the Blackmachine bug huh


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## bulb (Feb 18, 2009)

dude as far as what i look for in a guitar, doug makes the best instruments out there, period! (full stop! for you british folk)
I played this guitar when i last went to the uk and the feel and playability sold me on the guitar, i was just waiting for doug to sell and for the funds to collect hehe!


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## Ze Kink (Feb 18, 2009)

bulb said:


> YAY! IM BUYING THIS GUITAR!!
> Nolly take care of it for me in the meantime!!



Hmm, I was wondering why you mentioned in your Rg2228 ad that you need the money for a Blackmachine  So this is it then? Because IIRC you already had the B6 at that point?


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## bulb (Feb 18, 2009)

Ze Kink said:


> Hmm, I was wondering why you mentioned in your Rg2228 ad that you need the money for a Blackmachine  So this is it then? Because IIRC you already had the B6 at that point?



nah that was for the b6, i have been recording bands, saving up, and selling some shit to get this one haha!


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 18, 2009)

bulb said:


> dude as far as what i look for in a guitar, doug makes the best instruments out there, menstruation! (full stop! for you british folk)
> I played this guitar when i last went to the uk and the feel and playability sold me on the guitar, i was just waiting for doug to sell and for the funds to collect hehe!



so we´ll be hearing awesome F/drop E djenty bulby goodness soon?

how soon?

and have you found a good solution for the bass yet, considering the low F?


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## TomAwesome (Feb 18, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> so we´ll be hearing awesome F/drop E djenty bulby goodness soon?
> 
> how soon?
> 
> and have you found a good solution for the bass yet, considering the low F?



I think he had recorded some low tuned 8-string stuff when he got his Illustrated some time ago, so there should already be some material in that range on his Soundclick. I think he said he just played the bass in unison with the guitar, but I don't really remember.


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## bulb (Feb 18, 2009)

nolly being the supreme djentleman he is, has offered to bring the guitar with him when he comes and visits me in late march/early april sometime, so you can expect some nice collab song with him and the guitar about then haha!



TomAwesome said:


> I think he had recorded some low tuned 8-string stuff when he got his Illustrated some time ago, so there should already be some material in that range on his Soundclick. I think he said he just played the bass in unison with the guitar, but I don't really remember.



actually the illustated stuff had the bass an octave below but it was fake bass unfortunately...


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## -Nolly- (Feb 18, 2009)

The plan hath been revealed.
In other news, I've begun to bond with the F8 a little too much, handing it over to Misha is going to be a killer.


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## zimbloth (Feb 18, 2009)

Sweet score Misha. Are you actually going to use this thing? Your Illustrated seemed so nice but it seems like you never record with it, I only have heard that one clip years ago.

Of course I'm just jealous as I'd love to try one, congrats to you both


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## sakeido (Feb 18, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> I think he had recorded some low tuned 8-string stuff when he got his Illustrated some time ago, so there should already be some material in that range on his Soundclick. I think he said he just played the bass in unison with the guitar, but I don't really remember.



The Focus Hour is a full tune using the Illustrated 8 and is also my favorite Bulb tune of all time! It'll be nice to hear (see?) some new 8 string stuff from blub


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## -Nolly- (Feb 18, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> Sweet score Misha. Are you actually going to use this thing? Your Illustrated seemed so nice but it seems like you never record with it, I only have heard that one clip years ago.



I don't want to put words in his mouth, but we have discussed this a fair bit, and he headed out not long ago so he may not respond for a bit.
It's a good question, and I suppose me borrowing it has been proved useful in that regard as he's been able to see how I, a relative ERG n00b, have acclimatised to it. 

The point (and I'm trying not too be too subjective here) is that the fanned system allows it to be a true _extended range instrument_ - a guitar that has all the sonic properties of a standard 6-string with extra range added, making as few tonal compromises as possible. The IL8 for example, as Misha has said in other posts, has incredible clarity on the lowest strings, but at the cost of sacrificing the fullness and warmth you expect from the higher strings. Now alot of that is due to the extremely thin maple body that Misha requested, but you're never going to be able to get a 30" scale instrument to replace a standard scale instrument as far as conventional tones go.
With the F8 (and I assume the same can be said for other similarly fanned instruments), you could absolutely use it as a 6, 7, or 8 string as you wish. It's bizarre to experience first hand, but I have played it pretty much non-stop since getting it, and I am completely smitten. At the moment, I seem to mainly be using it as a seven-string for rhythm work, then using the lowest string to extend my lead lines without awkward position shifts. The narrow-string spacing is second-nature now, and I am actually faster on the F8 than on my 6ers. Despite the extra width of the neck, the taper is very similar to that of my B2, and when playing it like a 6 string it feels just as nimble.

I'm rambling now, and I'll leave Misha to explain his views as I'm sure he will. As I see it, even if he finds little use for the 8th string, he's still getting an instrument that could be viewed as a terrific sounding 6 or 7-string.


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## zimbloth (Feb 18, 2009)

That sounds amazing dude. As someone with small hands, I love narrow string spacing. I can get along okay with 27" baritones, but 30" would kill me, so maybe the fanned is the way to go even if it looks awkward to me. I'm fine with 7s but with my 8 I need some relief.


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## demolisher (Feb 18, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> I don't want to put words in his mouth, but we have discussed this a fair bit, and he headed out not long ago so he may not respond for a bit.
> It's a good question, and I suppose me borrowing it has been proved useful in that regard as he's been able to see how I, a relative ERG n00b, have acclimatised to it.
> 
> The point (and I'm trying not too be too subjective here) is that the fanned system allows it to be a true _extended range instrument_ - a guitar that has all the sonic properties of a standard 6-string with extra range added, making as few tonal compromises as possible. The IL8 for example, as Misha has said in other posts, has incredible clarity on the lowest strings, but at the cost of sacrificing the fullness and warmth you expect from the higher strings. Now alot of that is due to the extremely thin maple body that Misha requested, but you're never going to be able to get a 30" scale instrument to replace a standard scale instrument as far as conventional tones go.
> ...



So fanned frets are the shit and blackmachine is still rad, and mischa got mapled hard?


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## -Nolly- (Feb 18, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> That sounds amazing dude. As someone with small hands, I love narrow string spacing. I can get along okay with 27" baritones, but 30" would kill me, so maybe the fanned is the way to go even if it looks awkward to me. I'm fine with 7s but with my 8 I need some relief.



Yeah I imagine you'd be amazed then. I have small hands too and the F8 is _completely_ maneagable. The fanned frets are possibly more natural than mono-scale instruments (I think I just made that term up), and I'm not even exaggerating. The angle of the frets is almost identical to the angle one's fingers naturally fall on the neck, and the bridge angle matches the angle that one's palm rests across it too. It's not just me either, I've let countless people play it when I take it into college, and everyone has said the same thing.
Provided things go to plan, I'll have one of my own but early summer, but the several month gap between delivering this one and getting mine will suck.

Another benefit to the fanned system is that it makes the voicing of the pickups less problematic - the scale extension naturally takes care of the tone of each string, so that the pickups don't have to be designed to focus on one end of the instrument's range at the expense of the other.



demolisher said:


> So fanned frets are the shit and blackmachine is still rad, and mischa got mapled hard?


 basically, yes.
As far as Misha's IL goes, I'll reiterate what he's said in other threads, which is that the wood choice was his and that Jesse actually advised against it. Despite that, Jesse is going to rebuild it for Misha once he's back into luthier-mode. Tosin's IL is by all accounts a phenomenal instrument, and is proof that the problem is nothing to do with Jesse, though I think it'd be a struggle to describe it as conventional-sounding.


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## bulb (Feb 18, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Yeah I imagine you'd be amazed then. I have small hands too and the F8 is _completely_ maneagable. The fanned frets are possibly more natural than mono-scale instruments (I think I just made that term up), and I'm not even exaggerating. The angle of the frets is almost identical to the angle one's fingers naturally fall on the neck, and the bridge angle matches the angle that one's palm rests across it too. It's not just me either, I've let countless people play it when I take it into college, and everyone has said the same thing.
> Provided things go to plan, I'll have one of my own but early summer, but the several month gap between delivering this one and getting mine will suck.
> 
> Another benefit to the fanned system is that it makes the voicing of the pickups less problematic - the scale extension naturally takes care of the tone of each string, so that the pickups don't have to be designed to focus on one end of the instrument's range at the expense of the other.
> ...



once again nolly has summarized everything so eloquently, so ill just say what he said ^

the fanned frets apart from maybe looking unconventional are from an objective standpoint superior to regular frets in every way, i cant really think of a con except that they are hard to come by and try out for yourself...
i just remember that f8 being one of the most natural feeling and easiest to play guitars out there, and although when i went to visit doug i had absolutely no plans to buy a new guitar, i walked out knowing i had to own a b6 and an f8, and by extension even though i have never tried one, i know that i will love the b7 as well so i plan on picking one of those up as well in the future and making my blackmachines my main live and recording guitars!

I have pretty specific tastes in guitars, so im not going to say its the best guitar in the world for everyone because there is no such thing, but to me i cant think of a way to improve on the guitars that doug builds, i feel like they were designed to my specs!


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## OzoneJunkie (Feb 19, 2009)

I was wondering in particular about 1 thing with the fanned frets: how does doing barre stuff with your ring finger, high up (say 17th fret) work out? I do a lot of sweeping with while barring with my ring finger across multiple frets (Gambale still sweep licks), and was wondering if the angle of the fanned frets that high up in the neck is helpful or prohibitive for such things.

Also, which fret is vertical on the BM? Looks like 5th fret from the picture, yah?


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## -Nolly- (Feb 19, 2009)

OzoneJunkie said:


> I was wondering in particular about 1 thing with the fanned frets: how does doing barre stuff with your ring finger, high up (say 17th fret) work out? I do a lot of sweeping with while barring with my ring finger across multiple frets (Gambale still sweep licks), and was wondering if the angle of the fanned frets that high up in the neck is helpful or prohibitive for such things.
> 
> Also, which fret is vertical on the BM? Looks like 5th fret from the picture, yah?



Honestly, I have the guitar in my lap and just tried some barre sweeps right up at the 20th fret. The angle is exactly right, it feels amazing 
It does look like it's the 5th fret that perpendicular to the neck in the pics, but if you look up close you can see that none of them are, I guess the 90&#730; point is somewhere between the 5th and 6th.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 19, 2009)

i didn&#180;t know the il8 clips had "fake" bass, i thought it was all just sloppy sloppy bass strings 

you could have jesse cut the top off of the current body, and just give it a new bottom made of a warmer sounding wood (i belive you said you wanted swamp ash?). that way you wouldn&#180;t be wasting the whole body, and you&#180;d get the same pretty quilted maple top transplanted 

as for the F8, i see i&#180;ll have to get a fanned fret instrument some day. i like the way the higher strings sound "wrong" on longer scales, because it&#180;s so piano-like, but i guess there&#180;s more to it than that... 

i can&#180;t wait to see what kinda stuff you end up writing on this thing! like, will you use it as a normal guitar, and use the low strings every once in a while, or will the low strings be the main rhythm tools? 

only time will tell, mwahahaha!


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## hairychris (Feb 19, 2009)

bulb said:


> YAY! IM BUYING THIS GUITAR!!
> Nolly take care of it for me in the meantime!!



Haha, fuck, this means that Doug's not going to have any personal instruments bar the prototype B6 then?

Awesome score. I couldn't get my head around it when I tried it out but it is a fantastic instrument. 

I imagine that the cash'll go towards some interesting R&D this year.


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## -Nolly- (Feb 19, 2009)

hairychris said:


> Haha, fuck, this means that Doug's not going to have any personal instruments bar the prototype B6 then?
> 
> Awesome score. I couldn't get my head around it when I tried it out but it is a fantastic instrument.
> 
> I imagine that the cash'll go towards some interesting R&D this year.



He sold the prototype B6 last year, so he's actually guitar-less. I wanted to swap my B2 for the F8 while I borrowed it but he wouldn't have any of it. 
And yes, there is some interesting R&D planned for this year, I'm very interested to see what comes of it.


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## OzoneJunkie (Feb 19, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Honestly, I have the guitar in my lap and just tried some barre sweeps right up at the 20th fret. The angle is exactly right, it feels amazing
> It does look like it's the 5th fret that perpendicular to the neck in the pics, but if you look up close you can see that none of them are, I guess the 90&#730; point is somewhere between the 5th and 6th.



Sweet man, appreciate this. I have a fanned 8 on order with Sherman, and we were discussing this. Mike was recommending 5th fret vertical, and what I described was my only hesitation. So, thanks much!


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## Decipher (Feb 20, 2009)

-Nolly- said:


> Honestly, I have the guitar in my lap and just tried some barre sweeps right up at the 20th fret. The angle is exactly right, it feels amazing
> It does look like it's the 5th fret that perpendicular to the neck in the pics, but if you look up close you can see that none of them are, I guess the 90&#730; point is somewhere between the 5th and 6th.


I was also kinda curious about this too as you had mentioned that the fan gets much more "severe" the further down the neck towards the body. It's great to hear that it is very comfortable as I like to play weird dissonant chords high up the register.

I've been deliberating the whole Fanned Fret idea with my bass player on our next instruments (he's planning on an eight string Bee Bass while I'm thinking of a Sherman 8 unless exchange rates for a BMF8 work in my favor) but trying out fanned frets on an electric is next to impossible. With this thread, I'm feeling ALOT more comfortable with the idea of a fanned 8.


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## -Nolly- (Feb 20, 2009)

OzoneJunkie said:


> Sweet man, appreciate this. I have a fanned 8 on order with Sherman, and we were discussing this. Mike was recommending 5th fret vertical, and what I described was my only hesitation. So, thanks much!



No worries, and I look forward to seeing the guitar when it's done 



Decipher said:


> I was also kinda curious about this too as you had mentioned that the fan gets much more "severe" the further down the neck towards the body. It's great to hear that it is very comfortable as I like to play weird dissonant chords high up the register.
> 
> I've been deliberating the whole Fanned Fret idea with my bass player on our next instruments (he's planning on an eight string Bee Bass while I'm thinking of a Sherman 8 unless exchange rates for a BMF8 work in my favor) but trying out fanned frets on an electric is next to impossible. With this thread, I'm feeling ALOT more comfortable with the idea of a fanned 8.



Yeah it's odd, I guess the learning curve getting used to a fanned instrument is stopping yourself from "fighting" with the guitar. We're so used to conventionally fretted instruments that we don't notice the the way we have to change our fretting arm's shoulder/elbow position drastically depending where on the fretboard we are. Once you learn that your shoulder can stay far more static with the ergonomic fanned fret approach, it suddenly becomes completely second nature. 
Certain chord shapes are made more difficult by the fanned frets, such as this one:





because your index finger has to reach to behind your other fingers to stay within the same fret. However, chords the opposite way round are made significantly easier, so it's a trade off, and not one I consider to be a make-or-break in any way, because it can be easily overcome with a little practise.

Unless you're specifically looking for an unconventional sound in the higher registers, I would say that fanned frets are absolutely the way forward for extended scale instruments.


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## OzoneJunkie (Feb 20, 2009)

Plus, fanned looks sooo good. 8-string fanned - makes the 6-stringers ( except the ones here, of course  ) hide under the bed 

j/k.... .... maybe


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## cataclysm_child (Apr 20, 2009)

That guitar looks stupid and I didn´t get any GAS at all! Hah!...

...I just wish that was true!


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## bulb (Apr 20, 2009)

cataclysm_child said:


> That guitar looks stupid and I didn´t get any GAS at all! Hah!...
> 
> ...I just wish that was true!



sometimes i tell myself that too teehee


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## Æxitosus (Apr 20, 2009)

I have always wanted a burl-top guitar, and now that I see this, I do ever more. 
please stop posting pictures, that way I won't be so tempted...jk man but that guitar looks like God jizzed on it or something, amazing shit.


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## White Lee (May 12, 2009)

Beautiful guitar, would really love to try a Blackmachine.


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## Sepultorture (May 12, 2009)

i've always wanted to try a fanned fret guitar

and i hear their necks are secks \m/


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## Jeroenofzo (May 12, 2009)

Hey, rad looking guitar man.
Can you send me a picture of the singlestring bridges?
Are those ABM's ?


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## bulb (May 12, 2009)

White Lee said:


> Beautiful guitar, would really love to try a Blackmachine.



Haha when we tour, you are more than welcome to play it!!


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## cataclysm_child (May 13, 2009)

^When do you come to Norway?


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## vontetzianos (May 13, 2009)

^and South Africa?


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 13, 2009)

^ And jersey!

Though I'd be entirely too self conscious to play infront of his djentedness for I suck.


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## cataclysm_child (May 13, 2009)

That blackmachine is going to be gangbanged!


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## vontetzianos (May 13, 2009)

cataclysm_child said:


> That blackmachine is going to be gangbanged!


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## iabetesfo (May 13, 2009)

Wonderful guitar


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## SupaCoolMan2005 (May 13, 2009)

tell doug i would like to borrow it for extended period of time !


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## Adamh1331 (May 13, 2009)

I wouldn't mind to borrow that thing and maybe never give it back


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## SupaCoolMan2005 (May 13, 2009)

hahaha. i saw we are on the same page


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 13, 2009)

cataclysm_child said:


> That blackmachine is going to be gangbanged!



 And when are YOU going to be in jersey with your illustrated???


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## cataclysm_child (May 14, 2009)

^When Bulb let me join Periphery so I can go tour with them! (^^,)


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## swayman (May 14, 2009)

That guitar is a thing of beauty....


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