# Flat fretboard radius?



## xeonblade (Mar 21, 2012)

Seeing some shredders go 18", even 20" radius I was wondering why don't people use Flat fretboards?

What are cons of flat radius? (except it's hard to hold a barre chord and except the fact that tremolos are made for certain radius)


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 21, 2012)

If you look there are actually a lot of builds that use flat radius boards. Aside from a small adjustment period for some, flat fretboards don't really offer any cons. They're easier to build, as you don't have to worry about proper radii, and allow for nearly zero fret out while bending. 

It's far from a new concept, as Classical and Flamenco guitars have used flat boards for hundreds of years.


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## xeonblade (Mar 21, 2012)

I was reading about bends fretting out. Which seems to be better for bending?
Yes, I am aware that flat radius has been used on those for long time, I was just surprised there aren't any companies that offer flat radius.


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## Just A Box (Mar 21, 2012)

xeonblade said:


> I was reading about bends fretting out. Which seems to be better for bending?
> Yes, I am aware that flat radius has been used on those for long time, I was just surprised there aren't any companies that offer flat radius.



It's a cone versus cylinder argument. When a fingerboard is radiused, the radius is essentially like a cylinder, consider a perfectly cylindrical column. But, the fly in the ointment is when you that that cylinder and introduce a taper from one end to the other like on a guitar neck. Your strings are now not perfectly parallel to the board but at a slight angle therefore, when the radius is tighter (headed to the classic Strat & Tele radii) you get fretting out when bending. 

The cure would be:

1) Compound radius fingerboard, essentially reshaping the board into a proper cone shaped board.

2) Zero taper from the nut to the end of the board, leaving a perfect cylinder.

3) a totally flat fingerboard.


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## pawel (Mar 21, 2012)

The Vigier Shawn Lane model is one production guitar with a flat radius, which was Shawn's preference. I don know that quite a few owners didn't really bond with the radius in the end. 

I would think that it's really a mattter of compromises. Although you can play most things on either a flat radius or a very round one (i.e. a vintage Fender ), different peiople would be more comfortable one one versus the other and you'll capture the largest group of consumers in the middle. Since production companies would generally want to be able to reach as large a market for their product as possible, it is not in their interest to alienate their consumers - a 17"-20" radius will get you close to flat without losing those who want some radius on their guitars. Same reason why you see fewer modern 7.25" strate and teles, with 9.5" becoming the new standard (and I imagine that a chunk of the vintage radius consumer base is in it for the 'vintage correct' spec more than anything)


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## ImBCRichBitch (Mar 21, 2012)

My acoustic has a flat fretboard, and the only real con is getting used to holding down barre chords and certain chords. But after practicing on a flat board it makes it simpler to play the same stuff on a rounded board.


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## Purelojik (Mar 21, 2012)

my baritone 7 has a radiused 20in board which is just curved enough to be comfortable. i like the flatter fretboards


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## mountainjam (Mar 21, 2012)

In my experience, I adjusted quickly to a no radius board, and now cant imagine using anything else. I have no trouble at all doing full 8 string bar chords on my 8. Its rather comfortable imo.


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## Webmaestro (Mar 21, 2012)

I like a nearly-flat radius, but still want just a hint of curve... somewhere around 20" depending on the brand of the guitar. I play some Classical too, and always struggle a bit with the totally-flat fretboard on such high action. On the other hand, I HATE the super-round radiuses too. Anything less than about 16" drives me nuts.


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## BDMCCR (Mar 23, 2012)

i built a flat radiused 8-string and i must say it´s way better than i first expected it to be!
i was able to adjust the action a lot better and it feels like i can reach the lower two strings better than ever...


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## Munch (Mar 23, 2012)

Same as what others said, many find a radius to be comfortable for chords, but a flat board is technically superior in pretty much every way especially when bending, and it's a lot easier to make accurate when leveling the frets. I have both on some of my builds and the flat ones don't seem any less comfortable to me.

Also, regarding the whole cylinder versus cone thing, if you have a constant radius board, like 16" or something, then an outer string angled across the board due to string taper is essentially slightly "bent" already, so it's possible to have minor fretting out issues even when just playing an open note. Funnily, the middle string wouldn't have this issue since it's going straight down the middle of the board. Wackiness.


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## Munch (Mar 23, 2012)

There is the issue of matching hardware like someone mentioned (bridges with changing string height, etc.), but a plus is that many pickups don't seem to have a curve built in, so maybe a flat string plane would be more similarly distanced to the pickups from string to string.


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## vansinn (Mar 23, 2012)

I once played classic guitar, ow used for other music, so it's natural to me.
However, I still feel barres are slightly easier with a bit of radius.
As soon as the radius enters the 16" or so range, shredding and bending isn't a problem for me.
A 16" to flat compound would be my preferred, but I wouldn't pay too much extra just to have it per se..  then I'd rather go for a fixed 16/17/18/20" radius, whatever would be offered on the specific guitar.

Pickups were mentioned above, and I sometime feel some pups with a flat pole pattern might work better with a flat, or almost flat, board.
Not all pickups can be easily adjusted, and I've had to modify flat pups when the board radius were 15" and below.


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## Munch (Mar 23, 2012)

vansinn said:


> Pickups were mentioned above, and I sometime feel some pups with a flat pole pattern might work better with a flat, or almost flat, board.
> Not all pickups can be easily adjusted, and I've had to modify flat pups when the board radius were 15" and below.



Whoa, that's pretty cool. How did you modify them? that sounds like it would be a very handy skill.


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## vansinn (Mar 23, 2012)

^ well, obviously, fully sealed pups will present a Houston problem..

For OBL blade pups, I simply superglued very thin narrow strips of soft iron to the blades where needed for adjusting the sensivity to string types and distance.

Ths same can be done onto round poles, when such cannot be pressed in or out.
On some pickups, poles can be pressed, on others not.

I've found that shims anywhere from 1/10th to one millimeter can do the trick.

Once I simply used a magnetically responding tincan, a tuna can, IIRC, but make sure to rinse it well 
Else it's mostly what I can find in my scrap.
Harder irons may need to be heated up to almost redglow, and allowed to slowly cool down; a processess turning it into soft iron, which works better from a magnetic point of view.

Nope, such random quality irons aren't the same as what the original poles are made from, but likewise, as all that's needed is to add a small adjustment, it'll still work.
Don't worry, your pickup won't end up sounding like a tincan..


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## Munch (Mar 24, 2012)

Man, that's awesome, thanks for the tips!


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## bluevoodoo (Mar 25, 2012)

My 8-string is flat radiused, and the biggest advantage IMHO is that you can set up way lower action than on a guitar with radiused fretboard, not to mention the almost zero fret-out when bending.


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