# Have Trivium left dean?



## sPliNtEr_777 (Feb 15, 2009)

Obviuosly MKH and Corey of Trivium were with dean, releasing sigs last year, but neither their 08 sigs or their sig pups are on the dean site anymore...

There was supposedly going to be a couple of sig 7s for the boys in 09 but I havent heard or seen anything about this, so have they ditched dean guitars???


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## Dusty201087 (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes, in fact this is pretty old news. Matt is going back with Gibson and Corey is going to Jackson.


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## Mattayus (Feb 15, 2009)

sPliNtEr_777 said:


> neither their 08 sigs or their sig pups are on the dean site anymore...



wait...... they had sig pups?! i thought they just used certain Dimarzio models in their Deans


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## Shinto (Feb 15, 2009)

I love how Dean put so much money into advertising them and now they left.

^No, they really did have sig pups...


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## yingmin (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm sure Dean is disappointed to have lost two kindred souls in riding Dime's corpse to the bank.


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## That_One_Person (Feb 15, 2009)

I am pretty sure Corey is going to play DBZ guitars, not Jackson.


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 15, 2009)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...tt-heafy-is-moving-to-gibson.html#post1382275


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Feb 15, 2009)

Nobody knows anything about Corey yet, his gear section on their site says 'Update in progress' or something. But yes, Matt has gone back to Gibson.


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 15, 2009)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> Nobody knows anything about Corey yet, his gear section on their site says 'Update in progress' or something. But yes, Matt has gone back to Gibson.



He plays a Jackson in the new video, and according to wikipedia, he owns a DBZ too.


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## Dusty201087 (Feb 15, 2009)

That_One_Person said:


> I am pretty sure Corey is going to play DBZ guitars, not Jackson.



I've seen the Jackson in the new video but I'm not sure if there's been anything about DBZ, I think there are rumors around he has one though. Like someone already says his gear page is basically non-existent at the moment so we won't know for sure until he says


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## MikeH (Feb 15, 2009)

So no more 7s?


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 15, 2009)

Ibz_rg said:


> So no more 7s?



They'll get custom 7s from whoever they end up going with. That or they do some drop tuning.


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## Marshan (Feb 15, 2009)

The guys from Trivium are a bunch of assholes. The thing that pisses me off is that they just got their sigs and then they bail. That is a dick move on their parts. I felt sorry for Corey when he kept getting rejected from Jackson but now I think he deserved it. If I was apart of a guitar compnay I wouldn't give both of them a sig to save their lives.


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## ugmung (Feb 15, 2009)

Marshan said:


> The guys from Trivium are a bunch of assholes. The thing that pisses me off is that they just got their sigs and then they bail. That is a dick move on their parts. I felt sorry for Corey when he kept getting rejected from Jackson but now I think he deserved it. If I was apart of a guitar compnay I wouldn't give both of them a sig to save their lives.


 
yeah, it was a dick move on their parts. there's a huge debate on what Corey's going to use, we'll fiind out eventually... don't we always... 

they used a few different sevens when recording Shogun, like the 7-string Razorback and some JP7's. i'm curious as to what they'll use live for all their seven string stuff, because from what i understand, Shogun is all seven stuff, am i wrong?


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## Shinto (Feb 15, 2009)

ugmung said:


> yeah, it was a dick move on their parts. there's a huge debate on what Corey's going to use, we'll fiind out eventually... don't we always...
> 
> they used a few different sevens when recording Shogun, like the 7-string Razorback and some JP7's. i'm curious as to what they'll use live for all their seven string stuff, because from what i understand, Shogun is all seven stuff, am i wrong?


Mostly yeah. I wish they'd just play JP7s, instead of just recording with them: unless JP7s only sound good to them when recording, it's pointless that they play Razorbacks or whatever live for the "cool" factor.


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## Marshan (Feb 15, 2009)

ugmung said:


> yeah, it was a dick move on their parts. there's a huge debate on what Corey's going to use, we'll fiind out eventually... don't we always...
> 
> they used a few different sevens when recording Shogun, like the 7-string Razorback and some JP7's. i'm curious as to what they'll use live for all their seven string stuff, because from what i understand, Shogun is all seven stuff, am i wrong?



For some reason they were playing 6 strings for the Throes Of Perdition video even though it is played with 7 string.

But from my understanding the album is based on 7 strings?


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## Regor (Feb 15, 2009)

Marshan said:


> For some reason they were playing 6 strings for the Throes Of Perdition video even though it is played with 7 string.
> 
> But from my understanding the album is based on 7 strings?



Not every song is on a 7. They said its mostly 7s.


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Feb 16, 2009)

Marshan said:


> The guys from Trivium are a bunch of assholes. The thing that pisses me off is that they just got their sigs and then they bail. That is a dick move on their parts. I felt sorry for Corey when he kept getting rejected from Jackson but now I think he deserved it. If I was apart of a guitar compnay I wouldn't give both of them a sig to save their lives.


I don't blame them for leaving. Yeah, they had just got their sigs, but maybe they realised that Dean as a company just isn't that good (you know, milking Dimebags death and all that shit). They probably signed with them initially because they were all excited about endorsements and it turns out they made a mistake. That's my theory anyway 

Dean is the only company I refuse to buy anything from on principle. All their guitars are disgusting apart from the Rusty Cooley and Dave Mustaine signatures, but thats besides the point


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## Marshan (Feb 16, 2009)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> I don't blame them for leaving. Yeah, they had just got their sigs, but maybe they realised that Dean as a company just isn't that good (you know, milking Dimebags death and all that shit). They probably signed with them initially because they were all excited about endorsements and it turns out they made a mistake. That's my theory anyway
> 
> Dean is the only company I refuse to buy anything from on principle. All their guitars are disgusting apart from the Rusty Cooley and Dave Mustaine signatures, but thats besides the point




The thing that is annoying lastly is the whole Dime milking theme. IMHO, I don't thing that they are milking his name and if they are, I don't blame it on Dean. The thing that everyone fails to forget that it isn't Deans plan to milk the Dime name . If you are going to blame anyone, you have to blame The Dime camp (Vinnie and Rita) and Dime fans. Dime had a lot of fans that still want his name to live on. Dean wouldn't be making Dimebag guitars still if it wasn't in high demand by guitar players and fans. You have to remember that the Dimebag camp is allowing Dean to do this. For some reason, you guys see it as milking but have you ever opened your eyes and maybe think that this is what fans want? 

Jackson can continue making Randy Rhoad's guitars and they don't get any slack for it? double standard much? This whole Dean hating thing is just bandwagon bullshit. I hear people give shit to dean about the many models... guess what they are just razorbacks with different art. personally, I wouldn't even count that as a new model.


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## newbie (Feb 16, 2009)

Marshan said:


> Jackson can continue making Randy Rhoad's guitars and they don't get any slack for it? double standard much? This whole Dean hating thing is just bandwagon bullshit. I hear people give shit to dean about the many models... guess what they are just razorbacks with different art. personally, I wouldn't even count that as a new model.



yeah. and jackson made an amp posthumously and slapped rhoads' name on it too. oh wait...


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## demolisher (Feb 16, 2009)

dean guitars are shit as balls.


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## The Overmatt (Feb 16, 2009)

Marshan said:


> The thing that is annoying lastly is the whole Dime milking theme. IMHO, I don't thing that they are milking his name and if they are, I don't blame it on Dean. The thing that everyone fails to forget that it isn't Deans plan to milk the Dime name . If you are going to blame anyone, you have to blame The Dime camp (Vinnie and Rita) and Dime fans. Dime had a lot of fans that still want his name to live on. Dean wouldn't be making Dimebag guitars still if it wasn't in high demand by guitar players and fans. You have to remember that the Dimebag camp is allowing Dean to do this. For some reason, you guys see it as milking but have you ever opened your eyes and maybe think that this is what fans want?
> 
> Jackson can continue making Randy Rhoad's guitars and they don't get any slack for it? double standard much? This whole Dean hating thing is just bandwagon bullshit. I hear people give shit to dean about the many models... guess what they are just razorbacks with different art. personally, I wouldn't even count that as a new model.



True. That.

Signature models are consistently popular because people like being assosciated with their favourite players, and in the case of Dime, this is a player that people are clinging to even moreso because of his passing, especially considering the fact that it was only about 4 years ago. And y'know what? I like the Razorback. It's a cool shape, and I like a bunch of the paintjobs they offer.

Dean, like any other company, is out to make money, and as a result, they push what's popular. It's like why ESP has more versions of the Alexi Laiho model than any others, because it sells.

Now, I'm not saying that Dean hasn't been guilty of some quality issues with their instruments, but honestly, let's cut the bullshit shall we?

Back on topic, it'll be interesting to see where Trivium goes with their deals from here. They weren't even that into the 7-string stuff until Shogun came out, so who knows, maybe it'll even be a passing thing.


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## Shaman (Feb 16, 2009)

newbie said:


> yeah. and jackson made an amp posthumously and slapped rhoads' name on it too. oh wait...



No, Marshall did that


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## Toshiro (Feb 16, 2009)

Shaman said:


> No, Marshall did that



At least Rhoads actually played Marshalls, Dime didn't play "Dean" amps. 

What you're forgetting here is that Jackson owes their whole brand name to Rhoads in a way, his custom V was the first guitar made with the logo.

Not that I give a flying fuck about Dean or Trivium.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 16, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> At least Rhoads actually played Marshalls, Dime didn't play "Dean" amps.
> 
> What you're forgetting here is that Jackson owes their whole brand name to Rhoads in a way, his custom V was the first guitar made with the logo.
> 
> Not that I give a flying fuck about Dean or Trivium.



On top of that, Jackson haven't based all their advertising on Randy's image since his death, or put his name on guitars that he'd never played and bear only the most tenuous resemblance to his original model.

I've no problem with Dean keeping Dimebag's models available, but the way they use his name and likeness is extremely tasteless (and this is coming from someone who actually owns and enjoys an old Dean Sarasota...).

Back on topic, the idea of a seven-string Explorer is pretty badass, if they do go ahead with it, but I hope they don't put those hideous graphics from the Trivium-model Deans on it...


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## Xiphos68 (Feb 16, 2009)

Well said.


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## Holy Katana (Feb 16, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> On top of that, Jackson haven't based all their advertising on Randy's image since his death, or put his name on guitars that he'd never played and bear only the most tenuous resemblance to his original model.
> 
> I've no problem with Dean keeping Dimebag's models available, but the way they use his name and likeness is extremely tasteless (and this is coming from someone who actually owns and enjoys an old Dean Sarasota...).
> 
> Back on topic, the idea of a seven-string Explorer is pretty badass, if they do go ahead with it, but I hope they don't put those hideous graphics from the Trivium-model Deans on it...



I'd love to see the seven-string Explorer with a Rising Sun graphic like Matt's Dean had.


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## Ravelle17 (Feb 16, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> On top of that, Jackson haven't based all their advertising on Randy's image since his death, or put his name on guitars that he'd never played and bear only the most tenuous resemblance to his original model.



Really?

Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline

Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline

Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline

Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline


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## WillingWell (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah... the was a poor summation on distressed romeo's part. In all fairness though, I consider the Rhoads Vs a signature guitar much in the same way I consider Les Pauls a signature guitar. Granted, LP didn't come up with the design of that guitar, but its in the same vein as having the original player's name but nowadays its nearly a standard model.

In a way, it's a compliment to how well thought out the design is if it has remained tried and true until now.

My real question is if Dean's quality wasn't horrible would people still hate them? I guess it's the business ethics of grabbing every endorsee they can and all that jazz that are the real root of the issue.


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## Marshan (Feb 16, 2009)

Ravelle17 said:


> Really?
> 
> Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline
> 
> ...



Owned


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## Stitch (Feb 16, 2009)

Marshan said:


> The guys from Trivium are a bunch of assholes. The thing that pisses me off is that they just got their sigs and then they bail. That is a dick move on their parts. I felt sorry for Corey when he kept getting rejected from Jackson but now I think he deserved it. If I was apart of a guitar compnay I wouldn't give both of them a sig to save their lives.



That's not really the case; it was more the fact that they hated the Deans and they hated the restrictive contract they were on. When I met them they were really nice down-to-earth-guys. They just made a bad decision...


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## Dusty201087 (Feb 16, 2009)

Marshan said:


> The guys from Trivium are a bunch of assholes. The thing that pisses me off is that they just got their sigs and then they bail. That is a dick move on their parts. I felt sorry for Corey when he kept getting rejected from Jackson but now I think he deserved it. If I was apart of a guitar compnay I wouldn't give both of them a sig to save their lives.



Wow. Yeah, god forbid they make a mistake and sign with a company then leave them. You shouldn't move on as an artist, no way! You should play the same guitars your entire life.

Yeah, that makes sense 



Marshan said:


> The thing that is annoying lastly is the whole Dime milking theme. IMHO, I don't thing that they are milking his name and if they are, I don't blame it on Dean. The thing that everyone fails to forget that it isn't Deans plan to milk the Dime name . If you are going to blame anyone, you have to blame The Dime camp (Vinnie and Rita) and Dime fans. Dime had a lot of fans that still want his name to live on. Dean wouldn't be making Dimebag guitars still if it wasn't in high demand by guitar players and fans. You have to remember that the Dimebag camp is allowing Dean to do this. For some reason, you guys see it as milking but have you ever opened your eyes and maybe think that this is what fans want?
> 
> Jackson can continue making Randy Rhoad's guitars and they don't get any slack for it? double standard much? This whole Dean hating thing is just bandwagon bullshit. I hear people give shit to dean about the many models... guess what they are just razorbacks with different art. personally, I wouldn't even count that as a new model.



Unfortunately it is the fault of Rita/etc. As a fan of Dime, I just wish that Dean would draw the line and say "Ok, the only dime signatures are going to be the one's he actually USED, we'll take his name off the rest." I don't fault dean for the whole thing, but rather I fault dean for its failing quality control.

The current RR is a "tribute" model to Rhoads. The conchord was his official signature model, only I believe roughly 100 of which were made. Rhoads never even wanted a signature, but Jackson decided to take the specs that Randy had given him, make some minor changes, then make it. As said before how many of those guitars actually have his name on them (IE, not in the name of the guitar, but actually ON the guitar)? 



Shaman said:


> No, Marshall did that



Atleast they were something he actually used. I think the biggest beef with Dean is the fact that the guitars now associated with the "dime" name are totally different from what he played. Like the 7 string. Dime HATED seven strings, WHY THE HELL IS HIS NAME ON THE GUITAR THEN.


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## Justin Bailey (Feb 16, 2009)

the RR is to Jackson as the Les Paul is to Gibson. Completely different from the bastardization of dime and the ML.


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## WhiteShadow (Feb 17, 2009)

Personally i cant stand Deans, and i'm strictly talking about their high end stuff. Dont like the shapes, dont like the overall appearances, and i especially dont like what your getting for the amount your paying at such high prices. 

I'm curious as to know why so many artists are jumping on the Dean bandwagon, only to bounce shortly thereafter. My guess is its just for free gear.

And whats with Dean's obsession with hideously gawdy graphics/finishes/inlays on their guitars? It seems like they are actually out to make the ugliest guitars possible.


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## Shaman (Feb 17, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> At least Rhoads actually played Marshalls, Dime didn't play "Dean" amps.
> 
> What you're forgetting here is that Jackson owes their whole brand name to Rhoads in a way, his custom V was the first guitar made with the logo.
> 
> Not that I give a flying fuck about Dean or Trivium.



Yep, agreed! I was just being sarcastic 

That's right, all the guitars before the Rhoads model were Charvels, the Rhoads was the first Jackson. My RR1t should be arriving this week btw


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## RenegadeDave (Feb 17, 2009)

In my mind, the difference is the "Rhoads" has transcended the player and the offset V has become an iconic shape, much like a Les Paul, which is technically a "signature" model as well. 

Dime played Washburns a majority of his career, he ended up at Dean before his death and likely would have gone to Dean earlier if Dean B Zelinsky were with the company prior to 2000. 

Jackson would have a hard time topping this:
Dimebonics ML
Let alone Dean developing a Dime amp. 

I realize people must be buying this overpriced schwag but it totally confounds me. 

I don't fault Corey and Matt for leaving Dean and going to the brands they really wanted to play. Give them sigs? No way jose, unless they end up at ESP, who gives everybody sigs. Who knows how they were treated by Dean to make them want to leave? It could have been cash, but I doubt it, Dean seems to be paying top $ for talent.


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## 6or7mattersnot (Feb 17, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> And whats with Dean's obsession with hideously gawdy graphics/finishes/inlays on their guitars? It seems like they are actually out to make the ugliest guitars possible.



They can't... Devries' already beaten them to it! 

Seriously, they have some bad graphics/inlays/finishes I'll admit, but not all of them are bad! Personally I like the Dean razorback v w/ the explosion graphic or the silver bevels. But that Razor Shard one is just butt-fugly...


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## Diogene303 (Feb 18, 2009)

Hey , 

Guys on top of leaving dean and all ...both corey and matt have now move from peavey amps back to marshall by the way .........


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## Marshan (Feb 18, 2009)

Diogene303 said:


> Hey ,
> 
> Guys on top of leaving dean and all ...both corey and matt have now move from peavey amps back to marshall by the way .........



Great for them. 


I doubt that Jackson, Gibson, or Marshall are going to give them sigs. If Corey goes to DBZ.... maybe.


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## Shaman (Feb 18, 2009)

Marshan said:


> Great for them.
> 
> 
> I doubt that Jackson, Gibson, or Marshall are going to give them sigs. If Corey goes to DBZ.... maybe.



I actually wouldn't be suprized if Jackson gave Corey a signature model. They have released quite a lot of 'em in the past years.(COW, Matt Tuck, Phil Demmel etc.)


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## soliloquy (Feb 18, 2009)

trivium leaving dean...well, they are young. not too many young artists have their own signature guitars. for the most part, artists just play a guitar and hope the guitar they play endorses them. trivium only came to dean coz rita apparently gave em a guitar to try out, they enjoyed it, and then they signed up. and according to some, matt had another guitar in mind first. it looked kinda like a jackson Warrior. for some reason that was turned down. and apparently they are still using their dean 7-string guitars on their concert. but a little before they left dean, both matt and corey were seen with deans that supported black duct tape on thier headstock. so, if they didnt like the guitars, they wouldnt have put the effort to cover the headstock. but as free agents right now, i think they are free to use whatever they want. 




WillingWell said:


> Yeah... the was a poor summation on distressed romeo's part. In all fairness though, I consider the Rhoads Vs a signature guitar much in the same way I consider Les Pauls a signature guitar. Granted, LP didn't come up with the design of that guitar, but its in the same vein as having the original player's name but nowadays its nearly a standard model.
> 
> In a way, it's a compliment to how well thought out the design is if it has remained tried and true until now.
> 
> My real question is if Dean's quality wasn't horrible would people still hate them? I guess it's the business ethics of grabbing every endorsee they can and all that jazz that are the real root of the issue.



dean, for the most part, has a love-hate relationship. the only place that isnt true is, well, here on SS.org. 

there are people that say that dean is on the top of the Korean, and USA guitars(dont mind the price. thats not the guitar...). while others, mainly SS.org people some how get the lemons, or just dont want to admit dean makes good guitars. and i honestly dont know what quality issues SS.org keeps refering too either. for the most part, i've come across dean guitars that may not be 'great'. but have been on par with, say, PRS SE, Agile, Schecter, LTD and all. 

so to say that dean has questionable quality control is beyond me...



also, if dean really is that bad a company, then i dont think they'd be attracting all these big name guys. also, dean isnt dime. dime isnt dean. to say dean is shit coz of dimes pimping is kind of a stupid remark to make...thats like bad mouthing fender because it was seen in the hands of kurt cobain. 

though, i must agree that it is stupid for dean to pimp dimes name like that. as a company, they could say no to rita. or just keep the existing guitars, and stop making new dime sigs. but then again, the only deans that interest me are V and soltero guitars. so dime has nothing that interests me...


aslo, perhaps the reason why dean is attracting such big names is that dean doesnt really hold much as 'sacred'. in other words, everyone who comes to dean, no matter how small or big, dean will make them a sig. guitar. now, if you compare that to gibson, or jackson(well, jackson before 2008), then you'll only see a handful of artists with signature guitars. and perhaps artists like the fact that they have theri own signature guitars. so it may make em feel more important.

as for the graphics. cant say i enjoy them either. but they do sell. take their Razorback things as an example. as ugly as they may be, they have sold 10 000 in about 2 years of their existence. now i really dont think those 10 000 people that bought them are wrong. 

sure, dean offers to a small niech market. as a result, dean does quiet well for what it offers. other companies rather focus on the world as a market. dean rather focus on a small few.

and a side note, the greatest thing i find about dean is their DOA gatherings. what other company offers an owners party? i know a few artists that really enjoy that homely feel that only dean guitars offer.


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## JunkMan (Feb 18, 2009)

i dont like trivium, but i like dean so im going to set some facts straight.

trivium jumped ship because there contract expired, they decided not to renew because they wernt given the sigs they wanted anyway, Mat wanted a ESP star type thing but dean wouldnt do it bigger and coreys original sig wasnt aceppted because bernie rico threatened to sue them.


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## Dusty201087 (Feb 18, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> there are people that say that dean is on the top of the Korean, and USA guitars(dont mind the price. thats not the guitar...). while others, mainly SS.org people some how get the lemons, or just dont want to admit dean makes good guitars. and i honestly dont know what quality issues SS.org keeps refering too either. for the most part, i've come across dean guitars that may not be 'great'. but have been on par with, say, PRS SE, Agile, Schecter, LTD and all.
> 
> so to say that dean has questionable quality control is beyond me...



It'd be different if the Deans in question were priced like the guitars you mentioned. The Deans most people have issues with are one's that are priced almost half again what the other brands like Agile, Schecter, LTD, etc, and still have the same QC issues. That's the problem people have. When I pay $1,200+ for a guitar, and I can go in and safely say that there are guitars priced at $800-$1,000 in the shop, then there's a quality control or pricing issue.



> also, if dean really is that bad a company, then i dont think they'd be attracting all these big name guys. also, dean isnt dime. dime isnt dean. to say dean is shit coz of dimes pimping is kind of a stupid remark to make...thats like bad mouthing fender because it was seen in the hands of kurt cobain.
> 
> though, i must agree that it is stupid for dean to pimp dimes name like that. as a company, they could say no to rita. or just keep the existing guitars, and stop making new dime sigs. but then again, the only deans that interest me are V and soltero guitars. so dime has nothing that interests me...


You made a point then effectively argued against it. Of course Dime =/= Dean, it's the general whoring of Dime's name that pisses people off. How many kurt cobain signatures are there? How many of his signatures remotely resemble what he played? Okay, now how many Dime signatures are there? How many did he actually play/resemble what he played? You see my point?



> aslo, perhaps the reason why dean is attracting such big names is that dean doesnt really hold much as 'sacred'. in other words, everyone who comes to dean, no matter how small or big, dean will make them a sig. guitar. now, if you compare that to gibson, or jackson(well, jackson before 2008), then you'll only see a handful of artists with signature guitars. and perhaps artists like the fact that they have theri own signature guitars. so it may make em feel more important.


That and it makes those guys $$$. Dean can hand someone a big check, a signature, then tell them to rep the company and guess what? Now their band gets promoted. They don't have to work a part time job anymore, they can make a living just promoting Dean guitars, weather or not they actually LIKE them is a totally different story. *coughrustycooleycough*



> sure, dean offers to a small niech market. as a result, dean does quiet well for what it offers. other companies rather focus on the world as a market. dean rather focus on a small few.


What market is Dean appealing too? People who like to pay more for guitars of a lower quality than something like Agile, Schecter, LTD? Dean's appealing to the market of (mostly, there are some legit dean players) teenage kids who think that if they buy a razorback they'll be able to shred/play metal.



> and a side note, the greatest thing i find about dean is their DOA gatherings. what other company offers an owners party? i know a few artists that really enjoy that homely feel that only dean guitars offer.


To be honest, I think more people consider the actual quality of the guitar they're buying and if it suits there needs more than, "Oh, if I buy this I get to go to a party!". While it may be fun, it certainly shouldn't weigh into one's decision on what musical instrument to buy.


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## soliloquy (Feb 18, 2009)

/\ no, by the party, i mean its such a homely thing. they constantly keep throwing out limited run guitars, which makes their guitars more special. now a days, when a company says 'limited run', they usually release a thousand of those guitars or something. when dean says limited run, they mean 25 or so. plus, they have a great 'customer request' thing going. i'm not sure what to call it, but people on dean forum vote for a guitar, and dean makes it. try that with another guitar company(with the exception of agiles...) without going custom, and keeping the price below 850 US. 850 US i believe the most expensive custom dean did with the spalted soltero(nick named spaltero)...which i think is still in the making...

now if you're talking about their razor backs that are made in china, and are worth over a thousand dollars...oh, i fully agree with you. even their japanes guitars, and their US guitars are quiet expensive. however, the price of the US/JAP guitars is more questionable, as they too sell quite well. plus, some people want something that is hand signed and numbered than something with a machine doing all the numbers. 

and i'm not sure what you mean. the guitars i mentioned are korean, and arent worth more than 700US new(like the 79 series, black/gold, white/gold, pimp/blue burst, solteros, exotics etc). i'm guessing it only specifically refers to razor backs?

and that market im talking about is specifically teens. also, dean isnt another walk in the park. compare them to another company that has similar products. now a days, you have every company trying to rip one another to the T. they even have copies of zameties now! dean is offering something quite new and different. am i really into them per se? no, not really. give me a classy V, soltero, maybe even a hardtail and i'm happy. 

also, the other nieche is that, if you look at specifically metal guitars(not ibanez and jackson. nor shcecter), and compare them to deans, you'll see a huge difference. companies like BC RICH, Morser and others tend to make guitars that look more or less like insects and are over the top with gawdy-ness. comparing them to razorbacks, razorbacks look somewhat 'normal'...

though, i must say, i'm not a fan of pointy things at all. so i dont really know why i'm defending them. nor do i know why i'm defending the chinese lines. say something about the korean lines, and i may jump up...

sorry for the confusion


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## yingmin (Feb 19, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> so to say that dean has questionable quality control is beyond me...


The store I work at got two identical Dean acoustics the same day. One was all spalted maple, like it was supposed to be. The other one had a spalted back and headstock, flame maple sides, and a regular spruce top. It is literally the biggest fuckup I have ever seen in guitar production. I've never seen a mistake of that caliber on any other guitars, especially not for what they were asking for that guitar. Sure, $100 Epiphones and such have quality issues, but once you get up into the $500 range and above they tend to have their shit together.

To be fair, it's still a decent instrument in terms of playability and sound, but it was a scrapyard affair. I don't even know how it was POSSIBLE for something like that to happen.


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## Toshiro (Feb 19, 2009)

4 out of every 5 Korean Deans we got when I worked for a shop needed a level and re-crown out of the box to have factory spec(2.0mm @ 12th fret) action. It got so bad that my boss was charging them back the labor costs.

Their Czech republic factory put out better guitars than the Korean and US factories, IMO, which is why they stopped that line.


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## RenegadeDave (Feb 19, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> /\ no, by the party, i mean its such a homely thing. they constantly keep throwing out limited run guitars, which makes their guitars more special. now a days, when a company says 'limited run', they usually release a thousand of those guitars or something. when dean says limited run, they mean 25 or so. plus, they have a great 'customer request' thing going. i'm not sure what to call it, but people on dean forum vote for a guitar, and dean makes it. try that with another guitar company(with the exception of agiles...) without going custom, and keeping the price below 850 US. 850 US i believe the most expensive custom dean did with the spalted soltero(nick named spaltero)...which i think is still in the making...
> 
> now if you're talking about their razor backs that are made in china, and are worth over a thousand dollars...oh, i fully agree with you. even their japanes guitars, and their US guitars are quiet expensive. however, the price of the US/JAP guitars is more questionable, as they too sell quite well. plus, some people want something that is hand signed and numbered than something with a machine doing all the numbers.
> 
> ...



The reason people put down dean is because Dean uses crap components compared to similarly priced guitars. The 79 series has trash pickups, ok so do most other guitars in that price range, you can pick up an agile for similar price point with the same quality and better electronics. Soleteros are reasonably priced, but again, you can get single cuts from other brands w/ brandname pickups at the same pricepoint, and same quality. 

Lets move up a price point to the high end dime models DFH, Razorback, etc. You get one brand name pickup and one "it's as good as the super distortion that Dime used in the neck" Dean brand pickup (which, IMO is not superior to a superD, or even comparable). You get a liscensed floyd rose which they just changed this year to OFR. In the case of the DFH line, you get a body that can be as many as five pieces glued together. Have you looked at the routes for the trems on Razorbacks? They're atrocious, many have structural problems. My Agile Hornet 7 is a better guitar than the 255 RB, after A/Bing them. The problem here? My Agile Hornet Pro was less than half the cost of a new RB7. Same pickups, both have LFR7s, ebony boards. Initial quality is the same as the RB's I've picked up in the store. Furthermore, throw $175 on top of that and now my Hornet has SD Blackout sevens and a hardshell case. It sounds better and plays better and costs roughly 2/3rds now w/ a case.

Deans are overpriced. The guitars should sell about a click down from where they do in most cases (excepting their traditional body shapes). 

The difference is Dean markets like crazy and writes big checks. Dave Mustaine admitted he was bought out by Dean in an interview right after it happened. They made him a better offer than Jackson could. 

A comparably priced Schecter or LTD will have better QC done on it than the dean if you get above the $500 price point. 

As for limited runs? Who cares. You can still buy better production guitars off the shelf for the same money from other brands.


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## soliloquy (Feb 19, 2009)

/\ *scratches head*
like i said, if you're comparing the chinese guitars with korean guitars, then yeah, most likely you will find insane quality control issues. for example, this guitar store near my house. i got this chinese made guitar a few months ago, tore it apart, and came across a 4 piece body, and bunch of other stuff. compare that to any of my korean guitars(tokai, agile, peavey) and that is not the case. the upper end dime deans i believe are made in china. so yeah, i wont be surprised if they are like that. 

but then again, to compare any korean guitar company from agile isnt exactly a fair comparison due to price differences. in the end, the argument always turns into 'but agiles are better bang for the buck'. 

i'm not denying that dean has quality control issues. but i'm just surprised to hear em in such a big number over here. like, the other forums i go to, weather its HC, AGF, guitar101 and bunch of others, the only thing people say about the dean guitars is the headstock. and most of their love-hate relationship is solely based on the headstock. the pickups and quality control issues are never part of the equation. people who love dean guitars either get the greatest dean guitar every time they buy one, or something else that i'm not sure of. 

pickups, sure, i admit they may not be the greatest pickups. but i also never judge a guitar for pickups as a) pickups are very personal and they differ from person to person. and b) they are easily replaceable. 

perhaps the dean guitars i have tried were magic, or made by some other company, or something. but for the most part, they were highly resonate(which i dont think would be true if it was a 3-5 piece guitar...), played amazing. had very smooth frets, straight neck, tops were book matched. wiring was perfect. controls were smooth and highly responsive(something i havent noticed in majority of korean guitars, whether they are PRS se, or whatever...). pickups were 'meh'. nut was perfectly cut. binding had no strange melts of any sort(which i have seen on a few schecters and agiles, and LTD). paint was perfect without any sort of bubbles, paint runs, orange peel, or anything like that. therefore i say, their korean line is just as good/bad as majority of other korean guitar companies out there...

their american guitars i cant say much of. their used market is horrible. but for the most part, canada sucks with dean guitars selection. you hardly see anything here. and if you do, its usually about 300-800 dollars more expensive than american deans 

to be fair, i havent tried their chinese guitars, and i have no intention of either. so perhaps thats where majority of deans quality control issues lie..


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## RenegadeDave (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah but they put up their chinese guitars against other companies korean guitars. 

Almost all import razorbacks have bad routing, even on the dean forum they admit it. Until this year, they all had LFRs in OFR price points. 

Also a high end Dime model (ML) is $900, at $900 you shouldn't be hawking chinese instruments. Higher end would be Razorbacks at ~1250. 

Their american guitars are outrageously overpriced, which is why their resale sucks so bad. A $4k soltero should not resale for less than $2k but I've seen it happen a couple times. You can pick up a custom from a smaller outfit for what they're charging built to your specs and finish. 

What I've noticed is that a lot of the folks on the dean board put on blinders and don't acknowledge a lot of other makes. I'm not saying they don't make quality instruments, but I will say they do not make very high value instruments. You can buy a japanese ESP Eclipse II for 3/4ths what a Japanese Soltero runs, about 1/3rd what an American one would set you back. A jackson USA costs about $2k and sells routinely for about 75&#37; of new, I've not played a USA dean since it seems like local music stores are only pedal korean and below type instruments then Gibsons/Fenders, but I can't imagine them playing $2000 better than a SL1 SL2H, KV2, KE2, or RR1. 

OLD Deans are another story entirely. Original DBZ era deans are supposedly incredible, and sell for a reasonable amount. I might not mind getting a vintage dean for a collector piece one day, but I would never buy a new Dean. 

Again, Dean might make great instruments, but they're overpriced as soon as you get past the 79/Standard series. The exception being their MHG line of USA geets. 

Most people who are die hard Dean guys are Dimesheep. I certainly don't think their guitars are more "metal" than Jacksons, ESPs, or even Ibanez or Schecter, but they have been the only brand to 1 up Jackson on shitty graphics. 


2009 is supposed to change all this, but I'll believe it when I see it.



HAUCH said:


> You are 100% false. There were absolutely NO talks of a law suit.
> 
> A brief story:
> 
> ...


That's awesome.


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## bhuba135 (Mar 16, 2009)

on the rico story


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## poopyalligator (Mar 16, 2009)

Here is my take on dean guitars and why I do not like them. I used to work at a music store that would carry lots of dean guitars. I am also not the kind of person who doesent like a guitar for a reason like "i dont like the headstock" and stuff like that (although i would be less likely to buy it, but if it played really well then it wouldnt bother me). So let me start off by saying this, dean guitars do not have good quality control. I have seen several and i mean several deans that have horrible quality issues right out of the box. The set up is almost always garbage, the routing for the floyd has lots of imperfections, and occasionally i saw some with paint smudges. 

The pickups and all of the parts in general are not of the quality you would expect from a guitar in those price ranges. I would be pissed off if i had spent 900 dollars on a guitar to not even have an original floyd, a full set of good pickups.

This is more of a moral thing, but just like everybody else I hate seeing the fact that they use dimebags name as their huge selling point. Now you can match that dime guitar that he never used along with that dime amp that he never used. Courtesy of the guys at the dean company. 

As far as thier american guitars go. They are pretty damn fine guitars. The pricetag also reflects that. Even though the guitars are good I still think the price for them is way out of proportion from what you could get elsewhere. You could get a very finely made guitar made somewhere else with exactly what you want and quality parts for less (or at the same price). 

Now as far as dean guitars I dont want to be completely negative about them. So let me tell you the things i do like about dean guitars.Their entry level guitars that are about 100/150 dollars are pretty good for somebody who is looking to get into guitars and doesent have a lot to spend. While i may think some of thier guitars dont have good designs, it is something that has obviously kept them in business and they make an attractive guitar for somebody who likes that kind of stuff. They take care of their customers if somebody feels that they have been wronged. So i feel somebody should atleast say that about them


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## DaddleCecapitation (Mar 16, 2009)

Matt's original design for a 7-string was like a Charvel-esque Pointy Star, but it was turned down because it would be impossible to sell. The one Matt owns was made ot look in proportion to him and it was HUGE (he's like over 6 feet tall by the way). It would've been hard for anyone else to try and play it because it was too damn big.


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## soliloquy (Mar 16, 2009)

@ poopyalligator: 

have you heard of what dean had decided to do for 2009? all their import guitars i think over 500(so their 79 series and up) with floyd are not coming with original floyd bridges for the same price. 


http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/poopyalligator.html


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## Toshiro (Mar 17, 2009)

They come with a Floyd Rose "Special" now, the Ping manufactured one, not an OFR.


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## Koshchei (Mar 17, 2009)

Ah, the Dave Mustaine world of musical endorsement.


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## sPliNtEr_777 (Mar 17, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> They come with a Floyd Rose "Special" now, the Ping manufactured one, not an OFR.


 
what does "ping manufactured" mean????? are the specials worse than originals cuz I was gonna get one in the cool new antique bronze finish for the new guitar I have on its way (picstory soon aaaaaye )

and just to keep this discussion on topic, i wanna see an MKH custom 7 string LP, come on Gibbo


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## ChrisPcritter (Mar 17, 2009)

Ow... I had an original dean that was ok (from the 80's). But I have yet to play a newer one that just does it for me...


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## DaveCarter (Mar 17, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Ah, the Dave Mustaine world of musical endorsement.



He does at least actually use his Dean guitars. Unlike the wall of Marshalls behind him....


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## Toshiro (Mar 18, 2009)

sPliNtEr_777 said:


> what does "ping manufactured" mean????? are the specials worse than originals cuz I was gonna get one in the cool new antique bronze finish for the new guitar I have on its way (picstory soon aaaaaye )
> 
> and just to keep this discussion on topic, i wanna see an MKH custom 7 string LP, come on Gibbo



Ping is a Korean manufacturer. It's not that it's bad, per-se, but a Floyd Special sells for $80 new, and an OFR(made in Germany) sells for twice that. The Special has a zinc trem block and saddles, while the Original has steel everything.

They seem like a great bargain trem, but haven't had time on the market to get through testing/reviews yet.


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## possumkiller (Mar 18, 2009)

dean is pretty gay. i never really liked the music and well after reading so much about how trivium want to be metallica, they are very gay as well.

and so if trivium are just metallica wannabes, what are all the trivium wannabes?


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## soliloquy (Mar 18, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> dean is pretty gay. i never really liked the music and well after reading so much about how trivium want to be metallica, they are very gay as well.
> 
> and so if trivium are just metallica wannabes, what are all the trivium wannabes?



thats actually a pretty retarded comment to make. have you ever listened to trivium? they have metallica influences to them, but are far from metallica. 

in your sense, i guess ALL guitarists in the world are trying to play flamenco/celtic stuff coz guitars came from them 500 years ago.


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## yingmin (Mar 18, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> thats actually a pretty retarded comment to make. have you ever listened to trivium? they have metallica influences to them, but are far from metallica.


If anything, they're Pantera wannabes.


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## soliloquy (Mar 18, 2009)

far from pantera as well....i'm guessing you guys have never listened to metallica or pantera...


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## yingmin (Mar 19, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> far from pantera as well....i'm guessing you guys have never listened to metallica or pantera...


That's a pretty stupid "guess". They both played Razorbacks for a while, and I've seen clips of them covering Pantera during concerts. I'm not suggesting that they're Pantera wannabes, but it would make more sense to accuse them of being Pantera wannabes than Metallica wannabes, because they have more in common stylistically with Pantera than with Metallica.


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## soliloquy (Mar 19, 2009)

considering you have a shecter, i'm guessing you're trying to be avenge seven fold, and jeff loomis and anyone else that has ever had a schecter guitar right? and since you have a marshall, i'm guessing you're trying to be slash, wylde, and anyone else that has ever touched a marshall amp right?

just coz you play the same company guitar, doesnt mean you're trying to be anyone. in that sense, every les paul owner is trying to Les Paul himself.


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## possumkiller (Mar 19, 2009)

actually i bought 2 of their garbage albums. and watched the garbage documentary making of it. and read the interview with matt heafy while i was in iraq in 2004 where he literally said that trivium wanted to be the next metallica and that metallica were their gods and they wanted to be just like them.


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## Toshiro (Mar 19, 2009)

Nevermind that dude's vocals either sound like a wanna-be Hetfield or Tomas Linburg half the time.


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## possumkiller (Mar 19, 2009)

i mean come on guys before they came out of the metallica closet they used to be emo and you can still hear it.


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## yingmin (Mar 19, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> considering you have a shecter, i'm guessing you're trying to be avenge seven fold, and jeff loomis and anyone else that has ever had a schecter guitar right? and since you have a marshall, i'm guessing you're trying to be slash, wylde, and anyone else that has ever touched a marshall amp right?
> 
> just coz you play the same company guitar, doesnt mean you're trying to be anyone. in that sense, every les paul owner is trying to Les Paul himself.


Are you capable of making posts that aren't retarded over-generalizations and laughable strawman arguments? Pointing out why this post has no merit would be a waste of my time.


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## sPliNtEr_777 (Mar 19, 2009)

with regard to this whole trivium wanting to be metallica thing, I think they only wannabe metallica in so much as they crave the meteoric rise to fame, inscrupulous endorsements and laughable sums of income. I too idolise metallica, rightly so, but there will never be another metallica, and trivium are just using companies like dean and roadrunner to try and get to the top of the billboard charts or 20 million friends on myFace, or whatever that thing that popularity whores are using is called...

I liked trivium's first two albums, and shogun, but in hindsight theyre sellouts IMO and don't deserve endorsement from companies like dean, jackson or gibson, but that cant be helped, and regardless of that fact, I'd love if MKH finally got Gibbo to make a 7 string LP...


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## DaddleCecapitation (Mar 21, 2009)

I heard somewhere he was looking to get a 7 string Explorer


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