# Replacing EMG 808 with Q-Tuner?



## TemjinStrife (Oct 1, 2008)

Hey guys,

Does anyone have the dimensions of an EMG 808 pickup? I might be trying to replace the pickup in my Intrepid with a Q-Tuner BL-5 or BL-6. The widths are correct, but I can't tell if the 102mm wide BL-6 or 89mm BL-5 are the correct size, and I don't have any way of really accurately measuring the width right now.

Anyone know or have any experience with these?


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 1, 2008)

i&#180;m pretty sure the 808 is in a standard 6 string bass pickup housing...

look for specs on EMG&#180;s site?

edit:

the emg 808 dimensions:

4.00" wide - 101.6 MM
1.50" "long" - 38.1 MM

found it in this pdf: http://www.emginc.com/downloads/wiringdiagrams/EMG-808.pdf

re-edit:

looks like you&#180;ll get the 5 string version of the Q-tuner to fit, a snug fit at least.

i don&#180;t know about the string spacing though, as the 808 has a wider maximum string spacing.


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## darren (Oct 1, 2008)

The EMG 707 uses the same case as their 35-series bass pickups (3.5 inches wide). The 808 uses the same case as their 40-series bass pickups (4.0 inches wide or 102 mm).

It looks like the Q-tuner BL-5 should be a good &#8211; if not exact &#8211; fit.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 1, 2008)

http://www.q-tuner.com/sizes/BL-5&#37;20dims.pdf

102mm for the BL-5. Sorry for the misinformation. Looks like it'll be a clean fit... now to decide if it's worth $180 (including shipping) to try these out.

God, Hipshot's site is slow... I'm trying to find the string spacing on their 8-string bridge and it's taking FOREVER.


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## gunshow86de (Oct 1, 2008)

TemjinStrife said:


> http://www.q-tuner.com/sizes/BL-5 dims.pdf
> 
> 102mm for the BL-5. Sorry for the misinformation. Looks like it'll be a clean fit... now to decide if it's worth $180 (including shipping) to try these out.



What would the BL-5 sound like? I know it's a bass pickup, would it be good for distorted tones? I have never heard one.


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## Ishan (Oct 1, 2008)

All Q Tuners are the same for every applications, so the super high Z BL-5 should sound like a SHZ 6 or 7 strings Q Tuner


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 1, 2008)

Tosin Abasi's 8-string has one in the neck... dunno how it would do in the bridge, but the Q-Tuners are supposed to be razor-clear, clean, and modern to the point of icepicky, even with tons of gain. I think it'd be a really cool sound with an 8-string.

What do we think? Medium Z or High Z?


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 1, 2008)

gunshow86de said:


> What would the BL-5 sound like? I know it's a bass pickup, would it be good for distorted tones? I have never heard one.



having talked to the guy who makes them about getting one earlier, all the Q-tuners are voiced the same. the only differences are the sizes and pole pieces and stuff. tonally, they sound the same, throughout the whole range.

back on topic, the emg 808 has 79.375 mm. maximum recommended string space, while the 5 string Q-tuner has 75 mm. maximum string spacing.

as long as the strings on the intrepid will fit witin that, you´ll be a-okay! the bl-5 will fit into the pickup route 



TemjinStrife said:


> Tosin Abasi's 8-string has one in the neck... dunno how it would do in the bridge, but the Q-Tuners are supposed to be razor-clear, clean, and modern to the point of icepicky, even with tons of gain. I think it'd be a really cool sound with an 8-string.
> 
> What do we think? Medium Z or High Z?



i think the medium will be fine. you probably won´t need a very hot pickup, assuming you have enough gain at hand otherwise. it´s all personal taste though, as some like to just use hot pickups, while others like boosting the signal instead.


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## eegor (Oct 1, 2008)

TemjinStrife said:


> Tosin Abasi's 8-string has one in the neck... dunno how it would do in the bridge, but the Q-Tuners are supposed to be razor-clear, clean, and modern to the point of icepicky, even with tons of gain. I think it'd be a really cool sound with an 8-string.
> 
> What do we think? Medium Z or High Z?



I don't know about you, but I'm getting a SHZ and a HZ for the bridge and neck positions, respectively.


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## gunshow86de (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm starting to like the idea of the High Z. Do they install the same as conventional pickups? Do they need a battery?

EDIT: Never mind about the batteries bit, my lazy ass finally read something for myself.


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## revclay (Oct 1, 2008)

TemjinStrife said:


> Tosin Abasi's 8-string has one in the neck... dunno how it would do in the bridge, but the Q-Tuners are supposed to be razor-clear, clean, and modern to the point of icepicky, even with tons of gain. I think it'd be a really cool sound with an 8-string.
> 
> What do we think? Medium Z or High Z?



I will also be obtaining the SHZ and the HZ combo. My other guitars have pretty high output pickups in them, so I would like to have my 8 string have similar output so I don't have to adjust levels in a live setting. I've also always enjoyed having higher output pickups for some reason. Just a preference.


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## Jessy (Oct 2, 2008)

I just sold a Q-tuner GL-7 on ebay, and have failed at selling my BL-6 twice now. I guess not enough people know about them. Ask Erno if he can still make you a BL-5 with the dimensions of the EMG 40 series. I got mine in the EMG 45 series size, just by asking, with no extra charge. Don't get the regular BL-5: it won't be a proper fit.

As for the sound quality, there is no reason anybody should be using anything but Q-tuners anymore, unless they are poor. So definitely go the BL-5 route. Personally, I wire them up in parallel, straight to the output jack, and emulate all the controls that might be on a guitar (volume knob, tone knob, phase switch, series operation...) with Apple Logic's plugins, and MIDI controls. But if you don't have that kind of setup, and are forced to actually plug directly into an amp, then even running it in series is going to give you the most accurate signal - better than any other humbucker in parallel, and with way more volume and dynamic range (lowest noise out there).

(And yes, I am selling mine, along with my guitar and bass, because I am poor. I will buy new ones someday, unless some other company can match what they do, for less $$$.)


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## eegor (Oct 2, 2008)

Jessy said:


> Don't get the regular BL-5: it won't be a proper fit.


 
Really? The dimensions are almost exactly the same.


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## Jessy (Oct 2, 2008)

Hey, you're right! Erno changed the standard!

Here is what the Q-tuner bass pickups used to look like:
Q-tuner.com Gallery - BL5_q-tuner

and here is what they apparently look like now:
http://q-tuner.com/sizes/BL-5&#37;20dims.pdf

Notice the difference at the edges, where the screws go. By contrast, look at what he was doing last year (the "custom" model I got):
http://teamuv.net/ebay/bl6/front.jpg

Q-tuners used to be bigger than EMG's, but now they match perfectly, except for the fact that the top of them is curved to match the curve of the strings - just one more way Q-tuner kicks EMG's butt (and every other pickup company, for that matter).


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## Ishan (Oct 2, 2008)

You guys have me gasing for a Q Tuner now, DAMN YOU!!! 
It would be the easiest solution to go passive with my Intrepid Pro. I'm not convinced the Super High Z is a good idea for an 8 string, I'm afraid it would be too much gain for the low string as it tend to mud up easily  but maybe it wont be a problem with the Q Tuner clarity, I'll have to ask them


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 2, 2008)

high gain doesen&#180;t really muddy your sound, it just depends on how clear and tight the pickup is. look at the lundgren M8! it&#180;s pretty damn hot, yet clear as hell!

the thing is though, high output pickups aren&#180;t necessary anymore, as most people boost their signal anyways. if you don&#180;t get a hot pickup. if you do, then do whatever you want, really 

i remember bulb saying he liked the BKP Warpig&#180;s output not being as hot as his other pickups, as he always boosts his signal anyways. hot pickups are often more noisy and compressed as well. probably not the case with q tuners though


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## Ishan (Oct 2, 2008)

They are, indeed, very different kind of pickups. A bit like what Lace did with there Alumitone line of pickups (I'd love one of those in an 8 string format  )


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## revclay (Oct 2, 2008)

I think the output issue with the Q tuners will end up being a moot point due to how clear and noise free they are anyway. You guys are right, most high output pick ups are really noisy. But from what I have heard from reading about the pickups and hearing clips, it seems that it is a non-issue. All of the clips I have heard have been clear but also don't suffer from the typical noise and compression issues as other high output pickups. This applies on the bass side as well. Some of the bass clips I have heard are just awesome. They are really something special.


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## Jessy (Oct 2, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> high gain doesen&#180;t really muddy your sound, it just depends on how clear and tight the pickup is. look at the lundgren M8! it&#180;s pretty damn hot, yet clear as hell!


There are two big things to keep in mind when distorting a signal: gain and frequency response. If you have control over these, you can have one pickup do everything. 

The more coil windings you apply to a pickup, the more muddy the sound is going to be, because the high frequencies get eaten up. This is the case even with Q-tuners, the pickups with the greatest frequency response in the world. That's why I went with the lowest winding (impedance) models they offer. The neodymium magnet ensures that the output is still ultra-strong. To take it over the edge, I used parallel wiring, which halves the amount of coil to go through. Erno, Q-tuners' inventor, doesn't want you to know that switching the pickup to parallel makes a huge difference, but it does. Although they are better, in series, than any other pickup, they are not so good that they can handle all frequencies that the guitar puts out, without rolloff. In parallel, however, it's like mixing the output of a mic next to the strings, and the output of any other pickup, only with more even results. (Plus, you don't need to keep still in front of a mic!)

To get a humbucker in parallel to sound exactly like it was in series, just run it through a 6 dB gain boost with a lowpass filter applied. You could use a DPDT switch if you can stand hardware being on your guitar, but if you are recording, and you record in series, you can't change your mind and change it back to parallel later.



revclay said:


> I think the output issue with the Q tuners will end up being a moot point due to how clear and noise free they are anyway. You guys are right, most high output pick ups are really noisy. But from what I have heard from reading about the pickups and hearing clips, it seems that it is a non-issue. All of the clips I have heard have been clear but also don't suffer from the typical noise and compression issues as other high output pickups. This applies on the bass side as well. Some of the bass clips I have heard are just awesome. They are really something special.



Seriously. I made this recording with DEAD strings. You tell me another electric guitar pickup than can match this!
http://teamuv.net/jessy/music/qtuners/gl7.mov

and yeah, they work just fine under distortion 
http://teamuv.net/jessy/music/qtuners/bl6.mov
(this also features the Q-tuner bass pickup I am trying to sell)


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## Qucifer (Oct 2, 2008)

Jeez... I'm thinking this would be a pretty sweet upgrade for my RG2228.

I need to measure the overall string spacing tonight.


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## ibznorange (Oct 2, 2008)

running them in parallel doesnt halve the amount of coil they go through... it simply averages the output dude...


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## Jessy (Oct 2, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> running them in parallel doesnt halve the amount of coil they go through...


That's actually exactly what running in parallel is (except for the summing part at the end, but that's not related to the length of the path through wire). That's what running the neck and bridge pickup together is: electricity goes all the way through one, ALONG with all the way through the other. There is no averaging; there is just an electrical summing. Where are you getting your information?


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## eegor (Oct 2, 2008)

Those clips make me want some Q-Tuners even more. They sound so damn clear!


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## revclay (Oct 2, 2008)

Jessy said:


> Seriously. I made this recording with DEAD strings. You tell me another electric guitar pickup than can match this!
> http://teamuv.net/jessy/music/qtuners/gl7.mov
> 
> and yeah, they work just fine under distortion
> ...



And that is what I am talking about. Seriously, those things sound so clear, it's insane, no matter the application. The bass player in my band has already purchased Q Tuners for the bass he is assembling and I can't wait to hear it in action. Likewise, I can't wait for my Intrepid Pro to come in so I can put some Q Tuners of my own in there. Thanks for the clips, man.


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 7, 2009)

Sorry to bump an old thread, but has anyone tried this? I'm pretty close to nabbing a RG2228 and I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up replacing the pups; just not a fan of EMGs. Though of course I'll reserve judgment until I've given them a thorough run-through and tried the 18V mod, etc.

But all this talk of Q-tuners being SUPER clear and SUPER precise makes me think they may lack a little character? Which would defeat the purpose of passives in the first place. That's why I'm considering BareKnuckle pickups... I talked to Tim at BKP and he recommended a Black Dog which is a rather low-output pup.


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## Jessy (Apr 7, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> But all this talk of Q-tuners being SUPER clear and SUPER precise makes me think they may lack a little character? Which would defeat the purpose of passives in the first place.


The "character" you're referring to is just an EQ curve. Q-tuners definitely have less of one than any other pickup. You don't like it? Use an equalizer. It's a much better solution than getting stuck with only one EQ curve that kills the high end, which is what all other magnetic pickups do.


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 7, 2009)

Jessy said:


> The "character" you're referring to is just an EQ curve. Q-tuners definitely have less of one than any other pickup. You don't like it? Use an equalizer. It's a much better solution than getting stuck with only one EQ curve that kills the high end, which is what all other magnetic pickups do.



Hmm, spoken like a true fanboy...  

I think there's more to a pickup than an EQ curve  but if that's really all it was then it would be pretty easy to take care of that with an EQ in front of the amp. Then again, IF that's all it was then there wouldn't be any need to buy expensive pickups


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## Jessy (Apr 7, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> Hmm, spoken like a true fanboy...
> 
> I think there's more to a pickup than an EQ curve  but if that's really all it was then it would be pretty easy to take care of that with an EQ in front of the amp. Then again, IF that's all it was then there wouldn't be any need to buy expensive pickups


What you think is irrelevant. It doesn't change physics. Guitar players like to believe in magic, and pickup manufacturers play to this in order to make a living. As far as the human ear is concerned, pickups only affect two things that relate to the input (the vibrating magnetic string): frequency response (aka an "EQ curve"), and compression (aka "dynamics"). Output also comes into play, in terms of signal to noise ratio, but the noise is not part of the input. Output also matters if you don't have a level control in front of your amp, but I don't see the logic of that, unless you're poor, in which case, you shouldn't be worrying about pickups.

I used to be brainwashed by the same touchy-feely mumbo jumbo that you seem to be, before I did a lot of research, so I'll ignore the rudeness of your comments for now. The reason you can't undo the EQ curve of any other pickup that I know of, is that they are all lowpass filters within the range of human hearing. Even a Q-tuner, in series mode, is like this. There's no such thing as the reverse of a lowpass filter. You can boost the highs above a certain frequency, but that's something different. You simply can't get the highs back. The rest of the EQ of other pickups can be undone, but it's a boring and slow procedure.


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 7, 2009)

Jessy said:


> What you think is irrelevant. It doesn't change physics. Guitar players like to believe in magic, and pickup manufacturers play to this in order to make a living. As far as the human ear is concerned, pickups only affect two things that relate to the input (the vibrating magnetic string): frequency response (aka an "EQ curve"), and compression (aka "dynamics"). Output also comes into play, in terms of signal to noise ratio, but the noise is not part of the input. Output also matters if you don't have a level control in front of your amp, but I don't see the logic of that, unless you're poor, in which case, you shouldn't be worrying about pickups.
> 
> I used to be brainwashed by the same touchy-feely mumbo jumbo that you seem to be, before I did a lot of research, so I'll ignore the rudeness of your comments for now. The reason you can't undo the EQ curve of any other pickup that I know of, is that they are all lowpass filters within the range of human hearing. Even a Q-tuner, in series mode, is like this. There's no such thing as the reverse of a lowpass filter. You can boost the highs above a certain frequency, but that's something different. You simply can't get the highs back. The rest of the EQ of other pickups can be undone, but it's a boring and slow procedure.



Hmmm, I'll ignore the rudeness of your comments for now too 

So from what it sounds like you're saying, a Q-tuner pickup can be made to sound identical to ANY traditional magnetic pickup out there with the right EQ curve.


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## Jessy (Apr 7, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> Hmmm, I'll ignore the rudeness of your comments for now too
> 
> So from what it sounds like you're saying, a Q-tuner pickup can be made to sound identical to ANY traditional magnetic pickup out there with the right EQ curve.


Basically. In terms of frequency response, certainly. In terms of noise, no, because they are too quiet. I don't like noise, but some people find it charming. The one possible drawback of Q-tuners, that I have seen one person mention in a review, is distortion. The magnets are very strong, so the pull on your strings may create an audible effect of changing the harmonic content of your strings. I did not perceive this at all, but I'm not saying it's not possible to do so. Every magnetic pickup does this to some degree - whether it's audible to you is a personal thing. 

This review I mention is somewhere on Harmony Central. Personally, I think it may have been the person not being familiar with the inharmonicity in the high register of metal strings, and not actually a "problem" with the pickup. You can't get rid of that either, and it gets worse, the older the strings are. The reason he may not have been familiar with it, is that these frequencies aren't normally heard with traditional gear. Guitar amp speakers filter the high frequencies, as does, as I've said, every other pickup but a Q-tuner.

Long story short, as I've probably mentioned in this thread already (it's been a while since I've posted here), if you're going to be using magnetic pickups, and you can afford them, I don't see any reason not to use Q-tuners, for any musical style. If you know what you're doing, yes, you can make them sound like any other pickup. There's something to be said for having a multitude of instruments with different pickups for specific cases, but only for people with money to burn, who don't want to put the effort into learning how to tweak the settings on their gear.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Apr 8, 2009)

I have Q-tuners in my 6 string tuned to drop B(11-60) and their great.

I wouldn't worry about too much output though I feel that I'm getting a little less distortion now that I installed them and I bought the SHZ and HZ bridge / neck combo.

I run them direct out and there freaking amazing. Set up at the proper height adjusting the pole pieces makes worlds of difference in the pups sound meaning you can get a range of diff pup sounds from a single pup.

and EQing the amp I've been able to get a full range of tones out of this pup its by no means a 1 trick pony.


I can't go as deep into things as jessy probably could I haven't educated myself that far on them or bought a whole bunch of other pups but I spent the money on these and I love em.

Though I will say the pups contrast from neck to bridge is a world of difference. I think its easily the best neck pup ever and I wasn't a fan or ever used the neck pup before I got these. The bridge pup will slice your ears off though.


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## Hollowway (Apr 8, 2009)

Jessy said:


> Basically. In terms of frequency response, certainly. In terms of noise, no, because they are too quiet. I don't like noise, but some people find it charming. The one possible drawback of Q-tuners, that I have seen one person mention in a review, is distortion. The magnets are very strong, so the pull on your strings may create an audible effect of changing the harmonic content of your strings. I did not perceive this at all, but I'm not saying it's not possible to do so. Every magnetic pickup does this to some degree - whether it's audible to you is a personal thing.
> 
> This review I mention is somewhere on Harmony Central. Personally, I think it may have been the person not being familiar with the inharmonicity in the high register of metal strings, and not actually a "problem" with the pickup. You can't get rid of that either, and it gets worse, the older the strings are. The reason he may not have been familiar with it, is that these frequencies aren't normally heard with traditional gear. Guitar amp speakers filter the high frequencies, as does, as I've said, every other pickup but a Q-tuner.
> 
> Long story short, as I've probably mentioned in this thread already (it's been a while since I've posted here), if you're going to be using magnetic pickups, and you can afford them, I don't see any reason not to use Q-tuners, for any musical style. If you know what you're doing, yes, you can make them sound like any other pickup. There's something to be said for having a multitude of instruments with different pickups for specific cases, but only for people with money to burn, who don't want to put the effort into learning how to tweak the settings on their gear.



OK, so let's say I want to switch pickups in some of my guitars, but I don't want a generic EQ for them all. You said previously I could just put an eq in front of my amp. So what would you recommend? I'd like something not super expensive, so it doesn't have to be infinitely adjustable, but I would like to be able to dial in a few options, like SD JB, BKP, etc. Any suggestions (specific names/models, if you know off the top of your head). TIA.


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## Jessy (Apr 8, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> You said previously I could just put an eq in front of my amp. So what would you recommend?


Sorry, I don't know anything about hardware EQs . I use the Peavey Revalver software, with Apple's Logic as a host, and use effects from both of them. Logic has almost everything I need, but its amp sim is pretty limited, and the Revalver is the best modeling tool I've heard yet; I've been into modeling amps since the dark days of the original Johnson and Line 6 stuff.

Anyway, Logic has a plugin called the Match EQ, which analyzes one input signal, and creates an EQ curve for another signal, to, well, _match_ it!  I don't actually know if anyone has used this kind of thing yet to "turn one pickup into another", but if you really wanted something accurate, I think the best approach would be to wire in one pickup, turn a drill on in front of it, analyze that signal, then do the same for a second pickup, and have the Match EQ work its magic. You could do this for different guitars, if the pickups are already wired. In fact, there's probably a market to sell a library of these curves, if you're interested!

Personally, I never cared to actually get the sound of a specific pickup - I just like starting with the cleanest possible signal, and trashing it! I've owned and used a few dozen or so different types of pickups in my guitars and basses, and although I'd always be excited to try out the response from a new pickup, it got old to be using what essentially amounts to the same EQ day in and day out. Like I said, it's faster to get different timbres by using a ton of different instruments, but it's not cost effective. And sure, a Q-tuner isn't going to give a perfectly flat response, and its EQ curve can have "character" if you tweak the pole pieces, but it's the flattest thing that exists right now, and I'd rather just make a bunch of EQ presets that I can trigger via MIDI, than tell the audience to hold on between songs while I take an allen wrench to the pickup.


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## Hollowway (Apr 8, 2009)

OK, cool. I have Logic Express, which I'll have to check on to see if it has Match EQ or not, and then I can dial in a JB (which I already have in one guitar). But, I totally agree about Logic's amp sim. I went out and blew the budget on an Apogee Duet, and then I add the logic distortion modeling and it sounds like White Stripes anyway. I'll have to check out Revalver, tho. Thanks for the tip!


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## Explorer (Jun 24, 2009)

I currently have an Intrepid Pro on order. Although some posts have indicated that the EMG 808 isn't that bad, I'm taking a look to see what other options there are if either the 9v and 18V configurations aren't what I'm looking for.

Has anyone yet actually put Q-Tuners into an Intrepid, either Pro or Standard, single or dual pickup, and have opinions to share? 

Of course, theoretical speculation without actual facts is always interesting, although that's not what I'm looking for....


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