# Macbook Air - dissapointing



## asmegin_slayer (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't know if anyone checked out gizmodo for live coverage of the macworld this morning. 







Pretty Skippidy Nice!!!

There was one thing that Steve Jobs announced that had me excited, and that was the macbook air. Here are the specs that he announced:
3.0 pounds, 
0.16 -0.76 inches, 
13.inch display, 
full-sized keyboard, 
multi-touch gestures, 
iSight, 
1.6GHz Core 2 Duo standard, 
2GB memory standard, 
80GB hard drive standard (64GB SSD optional), 
802.11n Wi-Fi standard,
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR standard, and MagSafe.

it was going for starting point of $1800
I thought it was pretty good, but after the show, (and after i worked out for awhile) i went back to gizmodo and saw something dissapointing about the notebook. here it is:





HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY TO PAY $3000 with SSD hard drive??????
Seriously? The CPU is a bit powerful, but further investigations shows up that CPU upgrade is only $300 and the SSD is $1000??


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

SSDs are fucking expensive man, I don't get the hype over apples laptops though...


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## sakeido (Jan 15, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> SSDs are fucking expensive man



REALLY expensive


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## ElRay (Jan 15, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> ... I don't get the hype over apples laptops though...


First and foremost: The OS. 

Second, if you've used one for more than just messing around, they're really much, much better. Little things like the screen, backlit keyboard, etc. My Lenovo ThinkPad really pales in comparison. Often you'll see PeeCee that seem to have the same specs, but the components are too often cheaper.

Third, they tend to get the CPU speed bumps sooner than their name-brand Windows counterparts. 

Also, the high-end ones are very competitive, and actually cheaper in many cases. You can find a better "deal" when Dell, etc. are doing their "sales" on non-Mac mid range laptops, but the real question is if the $'s you're saving worth what you're giving-up.

Ray


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## asmegin_slayer (Jan 15, 2008)

sakeido said:


> REALLY expensive



yeah your right, i just checked how much they are for a 64 gb, over $2000


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## technomancer (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm not in the market for an ultra portable, but that is damn nice. It should help Apple a good bit in Japan and the Asian markets where those are huge sellers.


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## Durero (Jan 15, 2008)

I was hoping for a price drop on the MacBook Pro's 

Also wishing Apple would do a tablet computer.

MacBook Air looks slick - no FireWire port though and not compatible with 30" Cinema Display so it's not the machine for me.


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## Durero (Jan 15, 2008)

ElRay said:


> First and foremost: The OS.


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## noodles (Jan 15, 2008)

asmegin_slayer said:


> HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY TO PAY $3000 with SSD hard drive??????
> Seriously? The CPU is a bit powerful, but further investigations shows up that CPU upgrade is only $300 and the SSD is $1000??



Umm...

$1799+300+1000=$3099

So, it's the same. What's your point? SSD is new and expensive technology. Wait a year, it will come down.


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## thadood (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm wondering how much faster the SSD's are compared to the standard HDD's. It seems like an awesome idea, just extremely expensve ATM.


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

transfer speeds are about the same as a fast drive, but access time is instantaneous

This thing is hardly an ultraportable, it's just thin and light. It's not small at all, look how huge the border around the screen is.


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## ukfswmart (Jan 15, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> This thing is hardly an ultraportable, it's just thin and light. It's not small at all, look how huge the border around the screen is.



Find a PC laptop of similar specs and form factor, and then feel free to bitch all you want. But until then, consider all other laptops penultimate to Macbook Air

Downloaded the iPhone software update just now; the new Maps functionality is pretty awesome. Anyone have any idea when the keynote's going up on the Apple website?


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jan 15, 2008)

no firewire?


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> Find a PC laptop of similar specs and form factor, and then feel free to bitch all you want. But until then, consider all other laptops penultimate to Macbook Air
> 
> Downloaded the iPhone software update just now; the new Maps functionality is pretty awesome. Anyone have any idea when the keynote's going up on the Apple website?


umm alright mr fanboi, it still has 1 mouse button, so epic fail is the only option.


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## Stitch (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh, grow up, Jeff. I'm sorry, but you strike me as someone who hasn't really explored what these things can do.


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## ukfswmart (Jan 15, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> no firewire?



Aside from an external HDD or a sound card, what peripherals are there that would benefit from Firewire over USB?


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Oh, grow up, Jeff. I'm sorry, but you strike me as someone who hasn't really explored what these things can do.


Apple's stuff is usually marked as "innovative" and "breakthrough" which this thing isn't. yeah it's thin, the Sony X505 was beyond thin like 4 years ago and their "505" 10 years ago.  whatever, don't know why I even bothered saying anything about it, guess I got sucked in by the troll post. I'm obviously not the market these are aimed at I guess  Apple's laptops have never filled my needs although they are better now than the black abominations I had to use before but I liked the ergonomics of those much more than their new "square" designs.


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## Thomas (Jan 15, 2008)

I think it's an interesting new direction Apple are pushing their laptops, but I don't think this justifies the price. $3K is just way too much to spend on an SSD laptop, considering the lower durability of SSD drives (compared to the regular, mechanical ones) and how painful it is to deal with Apple concerning repairs.

As for the price disappointment, it's Apple, so it's bound to be overpriced.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jan 15, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> Aside from an external HDD or a sound card, what peripherals are there that would benefit from Firewire over USB?



well, considering what i use my computer for, that's exactly what i'd need


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> well, considering what i use my computer for, that's exactly what i'd need


yeah but this thing isn't meant to be a portable workstation, it's supposed to be thin & light for people to carry in their bags. I just think it's too big to be practical, my T250 is pushing the size limit for me. Considering it doesn't have an optical drive...eh...

I did notice it has multi-touch though, that should be interesting to see how it pans out in desktop applications. I used the ipod touch and it didn't exactly leave me wanting to buy one. Funny how Apple is still touting their "iSight" thing as being innovative. It says "unlike most other ultraportables" The only real other ones are from Asus, Sony and Fujitsu and they all have them.


One thing good for you stitch, they list the size in inches, I wish they used centimeters because figuring out what something is in decimal inches is a pain in the ass.

oh they do on the specs page

Height:
0.16-0.76 inch (0.4-1.94 cm)
Width:
12.8 inches (32.5 cm)
Depth:
8.94 inches (22.7 cm)
Weight:
3.0 pounds (1.36 kg)


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## Uber Mega (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm normally an Apple fanboy...but the Air doesn't do anything for me  give me a Macbook Pro over it any day, but then again, i need a DVD drive!


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## ukfswmart (Jan 15, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> yeah but this thing isn't meant to be a portable workstation, it's supposed to be thin & light for people to carry in their bags



+1

I hadn't noticed that this was lacking an optical drive, I must admit, although a quick check shows that it's shipped with an external SuperDrive, and I can imagine the mixed response that'll garner. Although, unless you're installing an app or ripping a CD, when should you need an optical drive?


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 15, 2008)

oh and by the way, you can't replace the battery, at least not by yourself and it doesn't have ethernet and only has 1 usb port.


ukfswmart said:


> I hadn't noticed that this was lacking an optical drive, I must admit, although a quick check shows that it's shipped with an external SuperDrive, and I can imagine the mixed response that'll garner. Although, unless you're installing an app or ripping a CD, when should you need an optical drive?


It doesn't come with it, you have to buy it extra like every other optical-less laptop.


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## ukfswmart (Jan 15, 2008)

I think what Apple are trying to do here is to build on the foundations already laid by the expansion of wireless networks. Most people who buy laptops as a primary computer will have a wireless network with which to access the internet, so the need for ethernet in that case is largely reduced. Remote Disc is also pretty cool, although that again is something that'll receive mixed opinions

At the end of the day, if you're not interested in the Air, the standard MacBook is still there; it's not as if they're discontinuing the old model. I personally wouldn't go for one either, but it's nice to see Apple further refining their engineering genius when all other laptop manufacturers are too busy competing with each other for market share to innovate and push new technologies


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## technomancer (Jan 15, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> oh and by the way, you can't replace the battery, at least not by yourself and it doesn't have ethernet and only has 1 usb port.



Yeah these are the HUGE mistakes I see with this. I have wireless and use encryption for everything, so I couldn't care less about the ethernet port, but they should at minimum have onboard ports with a breakout box for additional USB and firewire ports that you can use when you need it (ie have the controllers onboard and ports provided by a box you can plug in).

Like I said, I'm not the target market for this, but the soldered battery and one usb are epic phails (and I love apple's technology).


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## Vegetta (Jan 15, 2008)

Lets see

Overpriced - check
No firewire - check
No ethernet - check
No removable battery - check 

 yeah sign me up


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## Naren (Jan 15, 2008)

Damn. I bought a new laptop 4 years ago for $700 that had 3 USB ports, ethernet, firewire, a removable battery, a 2.3 Ghz CPU, and a 40GB harddrive. 

2008 and they're offering this? For that price? No thanks. Sure, it's light and I know I'm not the audience they're targetting, but I wouldn't buy that for half the price they're selling it for.


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## El Caco (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm disappointed, I even did a blog on Myspace about it, my first blog ever.

The rumours said this was going to be a small, cheap laptop and that processing power and graphics would not be important as you would use this as an interface with your desktop. I thought cool, sell my MBP and get one of these and a iMac instead. 

I'll get a macbook, it's much better value and this is to much form over function for me. The multitouch pad is cool though.


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## playstopause (Jan 15, 2008)

Pics and ads.

Apple - MacBook Air


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## Cancer (Jan 16, 2008)

s7eve said:


> I'll get a macbook, it's much better value and this is to much form over function for me. The multitouch pad is cool though.



Macbooks are awesome, and as a person that works with them on a day to day basis, I'm amazed at how many people overlook them bacause they aren't shiny and metal. Multipad I'm thnking is just a function of the os, so it "MAY" spread to the other portables over time.

I have mixed feelings about the Macbook Air, its cute (and many people will buy it just for that), but I too would rather have a Macbook (although a shiny metal Macbook would just be ...metal). IMO opinion one would do well to see the Macbook Air an as introduction of concepts (multitouch in an actual computer product, the death of the optical drive, the rise of the SSD), and not something Apple is betting the company on (like say the iPhone).

I, for one, can't wait for the price of the SSD to come down, moveable media drives need to die, I really hate those things now, such a major point of failure.


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## Cammy (Jan 16, 2008)

Dell XPS M1530 +xp pro=best laptop on the market currently. And, almost $1,000 less than a comparable macbook pro. Although, OSX is a beautiful thing.

I like some of what Apple does, but this years macworld was really disappointing.


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## Durero (Jan 16, 2008)

The best thing I've seen today from Apple is this:
Apple - Time Capsule

Anyone who's used the new Time Machine backup system can appreciate the usefulness of this - a wireless automatic backup system for your whole house.


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## darren (Jan 16, 2008)

Despite what you guys say, Apple is going to sell a crapload of these. 

1) No FireWire? Who other than hardcore power-users use FireWire peripherals? Hardcore power-users aren't the target market for this machine. Most users won't notice and won't care.

2) Non-removable battery? The only time i've removed the battery on my MacBook Pro was to access the RAM port underneath. When the time comes that the battery won't hold a charge, i'm sure there will be plenty of aftermarket battery replacement services available. Or Apple will sell you a new battery for $129 and install it for free. No big deal.

3) No Ethernet? When was the last time you plugged in to a wired network? There are solutions to this, anyway, if you really need to plug in... USB Ethernet adapters, or carry your own AirPort Express. Both options are good for business travelers who find themselves in hotels or offices without wireless.

The MacBook Air is targeted at business users who take their laptops with them EVERYWHERE and will appreciate the weight reduction, and high-end consumer users who want something sleek and fashionable.


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## playstopause (Jan 16, 2008)

I SO agree with Darren post. He wrote everything i wanted to say.


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## Lee (Jan 16, 2008)

Thomas said:


> and how painful it is to deal with Apple concerning repairs.



I got my iPod repaired in two days, and that's by far the best customer service I've ever had with any company.


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## ukfswmart (Jan 16, 2008)

darren said:


> Despite what you guys say, Apple is going to sell a crapload of these.
> 
> 1) No FireWire? Who other than hardcore power-users use FireWire peripherals? Hardcore power-users aren't the target market for this machine. Most users won't notice and won't care.
> 
> ...



+1billion


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 16, 2008)

I think ethernet would be important for a business-goer where a company would not have wireless due to security or some other problem, then they've got to buy the dongle which should be included.

I guess I move files around and use "remote desktop" more than the average user, but "remote desktop" over wireless is slow as shit compared to over ethernet.


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## Clydefrog (Jan 16, 2008)

No firewire I can deal with. No battery removal is a pain in the ass, but I could deal with it.

No ethernet I could NOT deal with. Simply put, not every place I go to has wifi available to me; I still need to jack into the wall many places I go. This is simply ridiculous, and forcing me to buy a peripheral to HAVE an ethernet jack is ridiculous.

No CD/DVD drive? WTF? This is the biggest deal breaker imaginable. And not only are they stripping out the disc drive, but they want you to pay $99 on top of the inflated price for the laptop itself just to get an add-on to be able to throw in a DVD or a CD.

*WHAT?!*


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## stuh84 (Jan 16, 2008)

Gods sake if you want all them features buy a bloody Macbook.

Jesus christ you'd think this was the only laptop in the world.....


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## darren (Jan 16, 2008)

I think a lot of these features like Remote Disc are aimed at people using Wireless N networks.


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## darren (Jan 16, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> Gods sake if you want all them features buy a bloody Macbook.
> 
> Jesus christ you'd think this was the only laptop in the world.....





Add in all the stuff people are whining about, and PRESTO! It's a MacBook... or any other small laptop on the market. If that's what you want, there are choices available. But if you want the slimmest, lightest notebook available, guess what? There are compromises to be made.

Get a clue, people.


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 16, 2008)

darren said:


> Add in all the stuff people are whining about, and PRESTO! It's a MacBook... or any other small laptop on the market. If that's what you want, there are choices available. But if you want the slimmest, lightest notebook available, guess what? There are compromises to be made.
> 
> Get a clue, people.


yeah, apple made too many, check out the X505

Sony VAIO X505 Review (pics, specs)

Amazingly there's actually more stuff in a smaller space! imagine that! lol


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## Groff (Jan 16, 2008)

Macbooks are the only Macs that sorta appeal to me, the displays are really nice, but they just don't seem 'right' to me.


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## darren (Jan 16, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> yeah, apple made too many, check out the X505
> 
> Sony VAIO X505 Review (pics, specs)
> 
> Amazingly there's actually more stuff in a smaller space! imagine that! lol



How much more stuff? A FireWire port and a second USB port? Wireless (and presumably Ethernet) is handled by a single PCMCIA card slot, so that's a compromise. And it has a smaller-than-standard keyboard, making typing a little more awkward. With the keyboard at the front edge like that, it also seems compromised in ergonomics, as there's no palm rest. This thing will probably tip backwards with the slightest provocation. And it cost $3000 at the time.

Sony made just as many compromises (if not more) than Apple did, so i can hardly see why you think the Vaio X505 is a "better" solution for a subnotebook.


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## Metal Ken (Jan 16, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> yeah, apple made too many, check out the X505
> 
> Sony VAIO X505 Review (pics, specs)
> 
> Amazingly there's actually more stuff in a smaller space! imagine that! lol



are we comparing that to the macbook on the first page? The macbook has 2 gigs of ram to x505's 512mb, way faster processor (dual core, even), built in wireless... etc


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 16, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> are we comparing that to the macbook on the first page? The macbook has 2 gigs of ram to x505's 512mb, way faster processor (dual core, even), built in wireless... etc


you did notice the X is 4 years older right?



darren said:


> How much more stuff? A FireWire port and a second USB port? Wireless (and presumably Ethernet) is handled by a single PCMCIA card slot, so that's a compromise. And it has a smaller-than-standard keyboard, making typing a little more awkward. With the keyboard at the front edge like that, it also seems compromised in ergonomics, as there's no palm rest. This thing will probably tip backwards with the slightest provocation. And it cost $3000 at the time.
> 
> Sony made just as many compromises (if not more) than Apple did, so i can hardly see why you think the Vaio X505 is a "better" solution for a subnotebook.


One simple reason, it's smaller, the air takes up MUCH more space which is infinitely more important to me than how "thin" it is.

having the wireless in the PCMCIA is more useful, the mac doesn't have any sort of expansion slot like that, with the sony I can add more drives, faster networking, anything I feel like.

As for tipping back, no actually the design is the opposite of that, the air has a curved bottom, some laptops were made like that before and obviously aren't anymore, they are unstable. There's a reason why the "small front fat back" is gaining momentum, it's a far superior design to any other.

The keyboard at the front was a comprimise because all of the electronic parts are in the "back" section. It's not bad typing like that, more like an actual keyboard than typing on a laptop, a nice decision to be honest.

And sony's keyboards on their ultraportables are much much better imo than the "full size" ones on theirs and other brands.

Anyway, before I layed down the moolah ($2300) for my T250 back in 05 I reasearched a heeeellll of a lot and it was by far the best designed laptop made that year and I still think it's better designed than anything built since then up until the TZ which incorporates many of the features from the X505 into the mainstream.


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## Metal Ken (Jan 16, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> you did notice the X is 4 years older right?



You should inform me of these things beforehand.


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 16, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> You should inform me of these things beforehand.


 sorry my mistake.

Also I've been looking at this thing from the point of a perspective customer because that's who I am, I'm the "traveler who wants something small to throw in the bag" but some things about the design just don't work, at all.


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## El Caco (Jan 16, 2008)

You know what I hate most about the Macbook Air? A few days ago my Macbook Pro was the best looking laptop available IMO, today it looks fat, ugly and outdated compared to the Air  Still like I said before function and value are more important than looks to me, so a macbook is a better buy for me. 

Before anyone questions why I would want a Macbook when I already have a Macbook pro, I want a desktop and even though I have the money to buy a iMac it would throw my budget out, so I need to sell the MBP to get it. Problem is I also need a laptop for portability but my portable computer will only need to do email, internet, play a movie maybe record a song, a macbook will handle that with ease.

Like others have said, man I hope Apple releases a aluminium Macbook.


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## djpharoah (Jan 17, 2008)

For what its supposed to be and what it should do I think Apple just released another product that will sell like nuts. Might be time for me to get some Apple stock.


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## ukfswmart (Jan 17, 2008)

s7eve said:


> Like others have said, man I hope Apple releases a aluminium Macbook.



I think that would break the distinction between the Pros and the standard Macbooks, both in aesthetics and in price


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## Dormant (Jan 17, 2008)

I have a Macbook Pro and am a total advocate of Apple and particularly OSX, but the Air seems to me to be purely an aesthetic upgrade and fundamentally a pink elephant. 

Apple are so busy selling their iLife concept that expert user requirements seem to be shelved in favour of duping simpletons into parting with their cash 'because it's so pretty'. 

I can't help but feel a group of 'blue sky' marketing people with no concept of issues like high quality specs or capacity, designed the Air after deciding they wanted a laptop they could fit in an envelope just because "that would be so cool!" 

Pah. :/


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## ukfswmart (Jan 17, 2008)

Dormant said:


> I can't help but feel a group of 'blue sky' marketing people with no concept of issues like high quality specs or capacity, designed the Air after deciding they wanted a laptop they could fit in an envelope just because "that would be so cool!"



I really don't think it's fair to accuse a company like Apple of this, given their track record over the past ten years in producing industry-leading products. The specs on the Air are just fine _for the market it's aimed at_; a market which obviously isn't covered by the Macbook and Macbook Pro, otherwise they wouldn't have invested so much money in R&D, manufacturing, testing and marketing this product

I guess the only real way to settle this is for everyone to wait for six-twelve months and see what the sales figures/user feedback is like


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## Dormant (Jan 17, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> I really don't think it's fair to accuse a company like Apple of this, given their track record over the past ten years in producing industry-leading products. The specs on the Air are just fine _for the market it's aimed at_; a market which obviously isn't covered by the Macbook and Macbook Pro, otherwise they wouldn't have invested so much money in R&D, manufacturing, testing and marketing this product
> 
> I guess the only real way to settle this is for everyone to wait for six-twelve months and see what the sales figures/user feedback is like



Apple have often not been the frontrunners for industry-leading products. They are usually the first people to dress up other people's ideas in shiny plastic/titanium cases. You should remember they were not the first company to release an MP3 player (Saehan's MPMan, or even the Diamond Multimedia Rio PMP300 would want to stand up to stake that claim).

Personally I feel this is completely typical of the marketing monster that Apple is. I'm not saying there is anything fundamentally wrong with it but you cannot deny that Apple have sold to the masses (particularly in recent years) because of aesthetic values over technical specs. 

I haven't seen any marketing information to prove it but I'm fairly certain that the majority of their customers who have bought an ipod, iphone, or a mac over the years have done so first and foremost because they look good. That in itself is fine and typical of an audience with little real understanding of how computers work. 

I think people who use computers for more than email and putting songs on ipods (or for people who can at least do more than just this - or at least can recognise that not all MP3 players are called ipods) obviously recognise that Apple do make fantastic reliable products, but that is not how Apple sell themselves to the market. I need to be clear here in saying that I'm not saying that Apple have not been innovative over the years. You would be hard pushed to find a better non open source OS off the shelf than OSX (probably Tiger over Leopard which I'm still not sure about), and some of the functionality in the software they are producing is completely unrivalled. 

However, Apple would not compromise on the aesthetics to release a high spec product. Fundamentally someone somewhere would say 'yeah this thing is amazing but it doesn't look very nice'. I'm not a complete buffoon and I appreciate that this is the case with any marketing strategy for any large company, but all I'm saying is that in terms of priorities I think it's higher on Apple's requirement list than others or perhaps something they are happier to shout about in their marketing.

That's my


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## technomancer (Jan 17, 2008)

Hehe perfect example of who this is targeted at. My business partner, who handles sales and travels a lot, wants one of these. Why? Because he needs a machine that's small and light that will let him get his email, access the web, and do basic operations in Office. He doesn't need a dual core 2.8GHz processor for what he does, he needs a small light machine that's easy to carry.

Dormant: I think you miss that the reason Apple has done so well is that they've focused on the aesthetic while also using technology that is extremely solid. The majority of the people I know who own Macs (and I am in the tech sector) own them because they have the Unixish foundation that lets us get our work done without being a pain in the ass most of the time. The non-techies that I know that have them switched because they crash less and are less prone to malware than Windows  The majority of the tech guys I know dumped Linux desktops/laptops and moved to Mac when OS X came out and still run Linux on the server side. This is pretty much what my whole company has done, and what's happened at the data center a buddy of mine works at as well.


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## Dormant (Jan 17, 2008)

Technomancer - I definitely take your point. I think in essence I agreed with what you are saying in my last post.

Don't get me wrong - like I say I am a mac advocate - fully signed up Macbook Pro owning apple enthusiast. I think they do great things and I understand why they do what they do, and I am very impressed by it. 

However, I just think their marketing is manipulative, and at the moment is particularly targeting people with more money than sense. Apple have been dumbing down products for mass appeal for a while now. I know it's nothing to be really too annoyed about but it does irk with me slightly. 

I guess it's more a personal irritation I find at work - people who use computers as an every day tool don't seem to make any effort to learn anything about how they work or how to fix their own problems. The kind of queries that go through to tech support are often stupefying and show an extremely lazy attitude in people who are intelligent enough to have made it into high powered roles. 

I don't want to sound elitist about it and suggest that Apple shouldn't be making their software easier to punish lazy users, but I just wish people would take a bit more of an interest in the tool they use for the whole working day.


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## ElRay (Jan 17, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> umm alright mr fanboi, it still has 1 mouse button, so epic fail is the only option.


Ghad, if the PeeCee fanbois would only bother to use a Mac, they'd see how much of a non-issue this is. First, the OS and apps are designed correctly (for the most part), so contextual menus aren't needed as much as they are in Windows. Second, you can get the standard "Right-Click" menu by either Ctrl-Clicking or Click-pause. Third, you you absolutely have to have your right-click, then get a multi-button mouse.

And finally, before the overused whine about the Ctrl-Click is used, the Mac OS, from Day 1, has always used Shift-Click, Opt-Click, Cmd-Click as logical extensions to the functionality of a plain click.

Ray


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 17, 2008)

I love how people automatically assume I have never used a mac before, and that I use windows 

Anyone who says "using 1 mouse button works great" obviously has never met me before, I have more bindings on my computer than like anyone ever  I have 7 bindings for my titlebar alone


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## Cancer (Jan 17, 2008)

Dormant said:


> However, I just think their marketing is manipulative, and at the moment is particularly targeting people with more money than sense. Apple have been dumbing down products for mass appeal for a while now. I know it's nothing to be really too annoyed about but it does irk with me slightly.
> 
> I guess it's more a personal irritation I find at work - people who use computers as an every day tool don't seem to make any effort to learn anything about how they work or how to fix their own problems. The kind of queries that go through to tech support are often stupefying and show an extremely lazy attitude in people who are intelligent enough to have made it into high powered roles.



You know I totally hear you on this, but at the same time this is one of the things I love about Apple stuff, that you can could be both noob and leet, and find almost equal value with their stuff ....and thats the point really because at that point you appeal to everyone. Daily I meet the gamut of people, from the most intelligent artisans, to the most idiot of students, and they all can use Apple's stuff albeit differently.

And this is not me saying Windows doesn't have that, it did ...until it got congested with malware and configuration issues (and this is not my hating on Windows ....given the multitudes of platforms its expected to work on, Im amazing it works as well as it does frankly).

Oh, (and no I don't have any inside info) I fully expect that the Macbook line will be updated to aluminum cases, actually I fully expect it to look like a fatter Macbook Air (tapered edges, no removable feet).

Oh lastly, to those who are worried about the lack of a removable battery ...don't be. Since you can't remove it you're probably not going to responsible for it, just get AppleCare for it, and it should be covered, just like the rest of the computer.


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## Diggers (Jan 17, 2008)

I can't believe the fuss some people are making over the "Air" (Not here, in particular, but all over the internet)

Everyone's using the "Air" as an excuse to bash Apple, because if you're not a fan then Apple hating is the cool thing to do.

Fact of the matter is, Apple's design and marketing team are obviously excellent at the tasks laid before them. This will be a hugely successful product.

This isn't supposed to be another option when picking a high end machine; it's a cool looking, easy to use machine for the everyday user. There are lists of things that have been left out of the "Air", which if to you seems ridiculous - then you're obviously not part of Apple's target market.

I'll stick with my Macbook Pro thanks, but can see exactly why this product has been released. It's not manipulative marketing, it's intelligent.

Matt


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## canuck brian (Jan 17, 2008)

darren said:


> Despite what you guys say, Apple is going to sell a crapload of these.
> 
> 1) No FireWire? Who other than hardcore power-users use FireWire peripherals? Hardcore power-users aren't the target market for this machine. Most users won't notice and won't care.
> 
> ...



1) Maybe it's not the most ideal system for it, but this thing with a little Presonus Firebox (or any of the other dozens of firewire interfaces) would make an awesome portable studio...if it had firewire.

2) I dont' feel comfortable sending a system to another company with my personal files on it, but i can't remove the hard drive on this thing anyways. I believe there were similar complaints about the iPod and iPhone. Thumbs down to Apple for not listening. Again.

3) I plug in every single day. Wireless isn't as fast as gigabit ethernet. Being super portable, I would have loved an ethernet port to console into the Cisco gear I maintain and troubleshoot on a day to day routine.

All that aside, ripping Apple to shreds over this one product really isn't fair. They took a chance and they sure as hell got themselves noticed with this new notebook. I would like to know how resistant it is to impact though. I'd be petrified of squishing it in my Targus padded bag.


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## darren (Jan 17, 2008)

1) There are USB audio interfaces, too. But the thing only has an 80 GB 4200 RPM hard drive, so it's not exactly ideal for mobile audio. You're probably better off with a MacBook or MacBook Pro for this purpose. The MacBook Air is definitely not the right tool for that job.

2) So you back up all your stuff onto an external drive and wipe it before sending it off. No different from any other service call. Or walk it into an Apple store and they'd likely swap it for you while you wait if you had an appointment. (Depending on how tricky they are to get into and whether the battery is soldered in place.) If this is a showstopper, then this probably isn't the right machine for you. Good thing there are other choices!

3) So get a USB Ethernet dongle. It's not like the machine isn't _capable_ of having a Cat5 jack... it was just left off the main chassis for packaging reasons.

All of these things indicate to me that this really isn't the machine for you. You're just nitpicking on little details because it doesn't do everything you want it to. 

It's not the fault of the product or the product designers that it doesn't meet every whim and every need. They have other products that do, and this was clearly designed to be different from those products in two critical ways: Size and weight. A bigger, faster hard drive, FireWire, and built-in Cat5 Ethernet all would have compromise their vision which was clearly to make a machine that was significantly smaller and lighter than a MacBook, which seems to be a machine better suited to your needs, not much bigger or heavier, and less expensive, too!

I think the MacBook Air will probably be pretty tough. Aluminum is quite hard and stiff, and the way they've designed the upper and lower clamshell with subtle curves, they're likely going to be quite strong. Curved surfaces are stronger than flat ones.

And i also think the MacBook Air is going to sell a lot of MacBooks. People that really NEED to have more capability in their notebooks are going to look at the MacBook and say, "Why not?" And if the rumours aluminum MacBooks and redesigned MacBook Pros to be released imminently are true, then there will be lots of good choices available.


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## canuck brian (Jan 17, 2008)

darren said:


> All of these things indicate to me that this really isn't the machine for you. You're just nitpicking on little details because it doesn't do everything you want it to.



Darren, I never indicated that it was for me - i actually bought an EeePC recently, which suited my needs perfectly for IT. All I did was respond to your points. You asked questions and I answered them. I know the machine doesn't meet the my every desire, I'm just pointing out obvious flaws if i used it for business or as a musician.


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## Ancestor (Jan 17, 2008)

I would LOVE to have one of these. They look so cool. It would be perfect for taking notes and doing my homework on. Man, I would use the shit out of this thing.

I mean, hell, I've got my giant clunky desktops to do file editing and all that stuff. It would just be nice to have a light, extremely portable workstation.


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## El Caco (Jan 17, 2008)

Ancestor said:


> I would LOVE to have one of these. They look so cool. It would be perfect for taking notes and doing my homework on. Man, I would use the shit out of this thing.
> 
> I mean, hell, I've got my giant clunky desktops to do file editing and all that stuff. It would just be nice to have a light, extremely portable workstation.



Seriously is the aesthetics and weight really worth the price bump, especially for a student, the macbook would also be perfect for your needs and is cheaper and I don't think anyone would struggle with the slight increase in weight or size. 

I think there is a market for these, I think it is a tool for professionals, it fits their needs perfectly. I also think that Apple marketing see it like this as I can't see how they can justify the price of the base model otherwise. Of course the rich I have more money than sense crowd will also jump on it. For the rest of us the macbook is a better buy.


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## Codyyy (Jan 17, 2008)

They look cool, but they'd be useless to me. That said, I'm clearly not the target audience. They will sure look nice in all of those art galleries that they call Apple stores though.


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## Ancestor (Jan 17, 2008)

s7eve said:


> Seriously is the aesthetics and weight really worth the price bump, especially for a student, the macbook would also be perfect for your needs and is cheaper and I don't think anyone would struggle with the slight increase in weight or size.



I definitely understand what you're saying. For me, the weight and size is a really big deal though. It's easier to use and you can just whip it out and start working. It saves time and energy.

It's the same as my used eMachines laptop that I just got - I didn't really, absolutely need it, but it improved my productivity quite a bit. The low weight makes it a lot better for me. Easier.


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## darren (Jan 18, 2008)

canuck brian said:


> Darren, I never indicated that it was for me - i actually bought an EeePC recently, which suited my needs perfectly for IT. All I did was respond to your points. You asked questions and I answered them. I know the machine doesn't meet the my every desire, I'm just pointing out obvious flaws if i used it for business or as a musician.



Well, you were countering my points with examples from your own experience, so it seemed to me that you were stating how the machine didn't live up to your expectations.

And the examples you stated weren't really of a "business" user. Most "business" people don't have to jack into Cisco routers on a daily basis. They run their email, use the Web and use Word, Excel and PowerPoint.

For _business_ purposes, this machine is pretty much perfect. For an IT professional? Not so much.

And i don't think Apple has even _remotely_ suggested that this is a machine for art/design/music/media, so it's not "flawed" for those purposes... it was never designed for that kind of use to begin with.


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## Uber Mega (Jan 18, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> I love how people automatically assume I have never used a mac before, and that I use windows
> 
> Anyone who says "using 1 mouse button works great" obviously has never met me before, I have more bindings on my computer than like anyone ever  I have 7 bindings for my titlebar alone



You do realize there is an option where you can have two buttons dont you? OSX has always had two-button mouse functions with the mighty mouse and macbook clicker thing.

Or am I misunderstanding you?


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## ukfswmart (Jan 18, 2008)

canuck brian said:


> I'm just pointing out obvious flaws if i used it for business or as a musician.



Pointing out flaws in a product you're trying to use for a task it wasn't designed for is no fault of the manufacturer; if you want a laptop for recording music, you buy a Macbook or Macbook Pro, not an Air, because it's not designed for that kind of application


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## canuck brian (Jan 18, 2008)

darren said:


> Well, you were countering my points with examples from your own experience, so it seemed to me that you were stating how the machine didn't live up to your expectations.
> 
> And the examples you stated weren't really of a "business" user. Most "business" people don't have to jack into Cisco routers on a daily basis. They run their email, use the Web and use Word, Excel and PowerPoint.
> 
> ...



That's definitely more than fair. Sorry if I came off all ...jerkish. When I originally saw it mockups before the Keynote, I was really interested, but the specifications put it right out of the running. Apple definitely has not suggested to use it for what I indicated, but I applied it to myself as a potential user. As I said, Apple is taking a lot of flak for this notebook for various reasons (mostly undeserved) which they're probably going to work out in proceding versions of this. I'll be waiting for next year with good expectations. I still think the sealed battery is a bad idea as you can't bring multiple batteries on long flights (big flaw for travelling business peeps). I have two for my iBook and it was a godsend on my flight to and from Amsterdam.

ukfswmart - I didn't point them out as a fault of the manufacturer, I responded to points made by another user. Ok the battery I still consider a flaw, but that's besides the point. I think you also misread me on something. I actually said "it's not the most ideal system for it" meaning...it's not the most ideal system for it. It _would have been nice_ to have a firewire port to use with a small Firebox (not the full 1U Firepod). A superlight portable studio would have been pretty sweet and might have actually hooked me as a potential customer.


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