# Bloodbath buzzsaw tone?



## Jacobine (Mar 5, 2011)

i want to get that 'buzzsaw' sound bloodbath uses in the fathomlesss mastery and when they were at Wacken. 

ive heard it was through a series of crazy pedals and preamps and i heard it was through its mixing, i even heard it was 4 tracks (2 tracks each) of two different guitar tones (soft buzz and a kinda clean guitar) but idk what it is. 

what do you think? and what would be the cheapest way to duplicate?
halp plox


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## cyril v (Mar 5, 2011)

no crazy set-up at all.






http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/bloodbath/209134-bloodbath-equipment.html


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## B36arin (Mar 5, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-1vcuKcXeI


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## UnderTheSign (Mar 5, 2011)

Yeah, the sound has been around since the early/mid 90's. Classic Swedish DM sound, Boss HM-2 generally paired with a Marshall JCM 800 or something similar.
The video B36arin linked pretty much sums it up.


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## Tomo009 (Mar 5, 2011)

They combine it though, they use both an HM-2 and amp distortion. At least on the early albums. Live they may simplify it I'm not sure. But I have both HM-2 pedals and on their own, they sound buzzy as hell no matter what (i know that's the point), I'm convinced even Entombed and Dismember must have added in amp distortion to get that beefyness to it.


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## cyril v (Mar 5, 2011)

Tomo009 said:


> They combine it though, they use both an HM-2 and amp distortion. At least on the early albums. Live they may simplify it I'm not sure. But I have both HM-2 pedals and on their own, they sound buzzy as hell no matter what (i know that's the point), I'm convinced even Entombed and Dismember must have added in amp distortion to get that beefyness to it.



Entombed used the Boss HM-2 with the Boss DS-1 before it for the distortion, and Dismember likely the same as well (I've heard in conjunction with a Peavey Bandit). I have a link in my post with the guys from Bloodbath and Dan Swano confirming exactly how they used the HM-2 (HM-2 w/Marshall as well as HM-2 into Digital preamp w/cloned Entombed EQ). Another way to use this I've found is to treat it like a really fucked up Overdrive keeping the pedals distortion low, onto an already ( extra lightl) distorted channel and add amp distortion to taste.

I dunno, I'd say the HM-2 is definitely the main ingredient in the sound and I personally love the tone to death. I'll have to try mine soon with the Peavey Rockmaster Preamp to see what fucked up tones I can get with it. These pedals can be picked up at a moments notice over on ebay, I scored a mint one recently, so now have two of them (TW and JP).


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 5, 2011)

I've seen all sorts of variations on this sound.

Mayhem's classic distortion sound was apparently an HM2 boosted with a Tubescreamer for instance, and Cannibal Corpse use a combination of modded Metalzones with amp distortion.

I'd start with the HM2 and then experiment with amp settings (and possibly a boost of some sort) until you get what you're after.

As an interesting aside, I saw a band in London where the lead player was getting a really nice smooth tone (the opposite of what you're after in fact) using this sort of approach, boosting a Metalzone with an SD1 and then into a Laney half-stack. If you'd shown me that set-up I would have said it would sound like shit, but it actually worked really well.


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## Tomo009 (Mar 5, 2011)

cyril v said:


> Entombed used the Boss HM-2 with the Boss DS-1 before it for the distortion, and Dismember likely the same as well (I've heard in conjunction with a Peavey Bandit). I have a link in my post with the guys from Bloodbath and Dan Swano confirming exactly how they used the HM-2 (HM-2 w/Marshall as well as HM-2 into Digital preamp w/cloned Entombed EQ). Another way to use this I've found is to treat it like a really fucked up Overdrive keeping the pedals distortion low, onto an already ( extra lightl) distorted channel and add amp distortion to taste.
> 
> I dunno, I'd say the HM-2 is definitely the main ingredient in the sound and I personally love the tone to death. I'll have to try mine soon with the Peavey Rockmaster Preamp to see what fucked up tones I can get with it. These pedals can be picked up at a moments notice over on ebay, I scored a mint one recently, so now have two of them (TW and JP).



Yeh I've been fooling around with amp distortion and I've foudn somewhat of a sweet spot with the Japanese pedal where the amp's distortion at about 12 seems to smooth out the HM-2 at about 9ish. The weird thing about the Hm-2 is that the distortion setting is ULTRA sensitive from 6-11 then seems to have no change until about 4-5 where it just seems to fizz up as you approach 6 again unless you run on a purely clean channel where it seems to not have any change after 11ish.

I want to test it with a boost before as well, see what that does but I don't actually have one yet. Also with amp EQ but that hasn't really done much for me yet.


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## cyril v (Mar 5, 2011)

I hear ya on that HM2 distortion knob, it's got like 3-4 actual spots where it actually changes anything, lol. I've been looking into mods for the pedal to make that more usable, which when I find some published online, it'll give me a reason to go buy another beat up HM-2.


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## Jacobine (Mar 5, 2011)

any way i can duplicate the sound without a pedal?


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## Tomo009 (Mar 5, 2011)

Jacobine said:


> any way i can duplicate the sound without a pedal?



I really, REALLY doubt it, it's pretty unique, the pedal isn't all that expensive, if you can find one on ebay for $30 it's a good deal. I got my Taiwan for AU$30 and the JAP for AU$50.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 5, 2011)

Jacobine said:


> any way i can duplicate the sound without a pedal?



I doubt it quite honestly. Using a high-gain distortion pedal like the HM2 is a totally different effect to turning up the gain on your amp. I'd be really surprised if you could do it any other way I'm afraid.


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## Jacobine (Mar 5, 2011)

what about a mixxed assortment of fuzz and distortion pedals?
Boss's Fuzz pedal + something else?


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## cyril v (Mar 5, 2011)

If that is the sound you want, why would you take a round'about way of getting it? I can't imagine any other set-up being cheaper than just picking up a pedal on ebay or craigslist. 

I suppose it can't hurt to try though, but it is a pretty distinct sound.


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## Jacobine (Mar 5, 2011)

idk it seemed easyer just to get shit not from ebay to me idk. ill look into it though


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## TomAwesome (Mar 5, 2011)

Definitely an HM-2, though I couldn't get that kind of sound out of mine. All I could get was a churning fuzz sound, which was cool in its own right, but wasn't the buzzsaw distortion I wanted. I didn't try boosting it, though.


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## Tomo009 (Mar 5, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> Definitely an HM-2, though I couldn't get that kind of sound out of mine. All I could get was a churning fuzz sound, which was cool in its own right, but wasn't the buzzsaw distortion I wanted. I didn't try boosting it, though.



Is it the Taiwanese version? The Japanese is more punchy and chainsaw like, the Taiwan is more fuzzy and ambient, fits more for blackened type stuff (or even black metal i guess).


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## cyril v (Mar 5, 2011)

I just checked mine on the Boss serial decoder, twas born in October, 1984 in Japan. 

http://www.bossarea.com/serial/sndecoder.aspx


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 6, 2011)

That Swedish buzzsaw sound used by Grave, Entombed, Dismember, etc was normally JCM800s boosted with an HM2 through Vintage 30s. Bloodbath recorded one album (maybe RTC) through an HM2 into some sort of digital modeler, IIRC. Bloodbath has never really gotten the same gnarly sound as the older bands due to overproduction, IMO.


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## Tomo009 (Mar 6, 2011)

Kali Yuga said:


> That Swedish buzzsaw sound used by Grave, Entombed, Dismember, etc was normally JCM800s boosted with an HM2 through Vintage 30s. Bloodbath recorded one album (maybe RTC) through an HM2 into some sort of digital modeler, IIRC. Bloodbath has never really gotten the same gnarly sound as the older bands due to overproduction, IMO.



Actually I loved Bloodbaths tone, on Resurrection through Carnage they recorded digitally and it sounds just dirty. Most over the top insane tone I've heard, even crazier than carnage. Nightmares Made Flesh used an amp but I'm not sure which.

I've always been confused by Grave's tone, the HM-2 sound is clearly there but it seems not as overpowering as I know the pedal to be.


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## Ironbird666 (Mar 6, 2011)

Kali Yuga said:


> That Swedish buzzsaw sound used by Grave, Entombed, Dismember, etc was normally JCM800s boosted with an HM2 through Vintage 30s. Bloodbath recorded one album (maybe RTC) through an HM2 into some sort of digital modeler, IIRC. Bloodbath has never really gotten the same gnarly sound as the older bands due to overproduction, IMO.



It works FAR better as a boost I find. I set the Level and two tone controls to 11, gain at ZERO and use it in front of an already driven amp. Adjust the gain on the amp to taste (doesn't take much), EQ to your liking, and there you go, instant Sweden circa 1991. I've tried it through an old Crate solidstate amp and a 5150 and have gotten great results in both.


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## yingmin (Mar 6, 2011)

Brutal.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 6, 2011)

Ironbird666 said:


> It works FAR better as a boost I find. I set the Level and two tone controls to 11, gain at ZERO and use it in front of an already driven amp. Adjust the gain on the amp to taste (doesn't take much), EQ to your liking, and there you go, instant Sweden circa 1991. I've tried it through an old Crate solidstate amp and a 5150 and have gotten great results in both.


If you pump your highs to 10 in a band setting, it's going to sound awful. I had something roughly like:

Level - 10
Low - 6
High - 8
Gain - 0

... with a JCM800, Ampeg VH140C, and Peavey VTM120. I play in a d-beat/crust band for years with those settings and went through dozens of amp/cab combinations and additional gear until I found the perfect combination.


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## Ironbird666 (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll give it a shot later. I haven't tried it out in a band setting yet since I only picked it up for an upcoming project so I'll try out your settings. Thanks man.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 6, 2011)

Ironbird666 said:


> I'll give it a shot later. I haven't tried it out in a band setting yet since I only picked it up for an upcoming project so I'll try out your settings. Thanks man.


Yeah, on your own maxing out all or most of the knobs on the HM2 sounds fine, but when you practice like that you'll quickly realize you can't hear what notes are being played. It really helps to have two guitarists too. It all depends on your amp though. I had the best results with those three amplifiers through Vintage 30s after going through much more expensive gear in search of that classic Entombed sound. It's funny to me that the cheap and common equipment can achieve something that Engls, Vaders, Mesas, and other various "high-end" amplifiers can't.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 6, 2011)

^ CC used mesa's at one point IIRC.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 6, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> ^ CC used mesa's at one point IIRC.


Cannibal Corpse? They've used blackface Mesa Triple Rectifiers boosted with Kelley "Twilight" modded Boss Metal Zones for awhile now. That isn't the buzzsaw/HM-2 sound used by the Swedish bands mentioned in this thread though. I'm not really sure why Cannibal Corpse was mentioned, but who can complain?


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 7, 2011)

Last month I grabbed my old Digitech Death Metal pedal and used it as a boost into one of my patches on my Pod XT, using the diamond plate module. Pretty decent results imo, please excuse the playing, it was just a test 

also there is some midi bass in tharr, usual hi/lo pass

Blinded by Bees by Wookieslayer on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free


I've yet to try it into a real amplifier / stack, should be fun!


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## Tomo009 (Mar 7, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> Last month I grabbed my old Digitech Death Metal pedal and used it as a boost into one of my patches on my Pod XT, using the diamond plate module. Pretty decent results imo, please excuse the playing, it was just a test
> 
> also there is some midi bass in tharr, usual hi/lo pass
> 
> ...



Closest emulation I've heard. But the distinct "delayed attack" (makes no sense but I don't know how to describe it) seems to be missing.


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 7, 2011)

^ yeah i didn't mean to do that, 2 takes that weren't in sync, my mistake


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## Tomo009 (Mar 7, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> ^ yeah i didn't mean to do that, 2 takes that weren't in sync, my mistake



The opposite is what I meant actually. The HM-2 has that strange effect where it sort of starts with no mids (i think) then they come in about .2 secs after a note if you get what I mean. Just a characteristic thing of the HM-2 I've grown to love.


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## Ironbird666 (Mar 7, 2011)

Kali Yuga said:


> Yeah, on your own maxing out all or most of the knobs on the HM2 sounds fine, but when you practice like that you'll quickly realize you can't hear what notes are being played. It really helps to have two guitarists too. It all depends on your amp though. I had the best results with those three amplifiers through Vintage 30s after going through much more expensive gear in search of that classic Entombed sound. It's funny to me that the cheap and common equipment can achieve something that Engls, Vaders, Mesas, and other various "high-end" amplifiers can't.



I gave it a shot through my Crate Excalibur head into Marshall JCM800 with V30's yesterday and man, that did the trick!! Really thickened the tone up and got rid of some of the crazy high end freqs I was hearing. Of course, the Left hand Path tone was pretty shitty (in a completely awesome way) but setting the HM-2 like you mentioned keeps everything sounding like a nice, fat chainsaw instead of a thin, trebly chainsaw. 

Once again, much appreciated and when we finally get this little beast off the ground and recorded I'll be sure to post some songs.


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## Inazone (Mar 7, 2011)

I picked up a mint HM-2 (Taiwan) for $40 over the weekend. I tried it through my usual pedalboard setup (HM-2 > EHX Tube EQ > Rocktron Hush) into a solidstate Crate head, and through a Marshall Valvestate 8100 in my drummer's studio without any other pedals or effects. Using it as the sole source of distortion without an EQ was a fuzzy mess, but with the EQ and Hush into a clean SS amp, it would absolutely work fine all on its own. Running it in front of the Marshall with the amp's overdrive got a good Carcass-style tone, but the noise made it next to useless. 

My impression of the HM-2 is that it's the very obvious lack of note definition that makes it special. After testing it through different rigs and with different settings, it seemed to me that if there is an HM-2 anywhere in the signal path, it will leave its "signature" regardless of how you dial it in. My plan is to record my primary guitar parts with a Peavey Rockmaster or ART DST-4, and then either double the parts or play backing parts using the HM-2 in some capacity. That should fatten up the overall tone, especially using something like the Tube EQ and possibly an SD Invader. It didn't sound nearly as good with a Bill Lawrence 500XL or SD Alternative 8 as with an Invader in essentially the same guitar.


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## Jacobine (Mar 7, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> Last month I grabbed my old Digitech Death Metal pedal and used it as a boost into one of my patches on my Pod XT, using the diamond plate module. Pretty decent results imo, please excuse the playing, it was just a test
> 
> also there is some midi bass in tharr, usual hi/lo pass
> 
> ...


 

what were your settings on the deathmetal pedal and on the pod?


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## Tomo009 (Mar 7, 2011)

Inazone said:


> I picked up a mint HM-2 (Taiwan) for $40 over the weekend. I tried it through my usual pedalboard setup (HM-2 > EHX Tube EQ > Rocktron Hush) into a solidstate Crate head, and through a Marshall Valvestate 8100 in my drummer's studio without any other pedals or effects. Using it as the sole source of distortion without an EQ was a fuzzy mess, but with the EQ and Hush into a clean SS amp, it would absolutely work fine all on its own. Running it in front of the Marshall with the amp's overdrive got a good Carcass-style tone, but the noise made it next to useless.
> 
> My impression of the HM-2 is that it's the very obvious lack of note definition that makes it special. After testing it through different rigs and with different settings, it seemed to me that if there is an HM-2 anywhere in the signal path, it will leave its "signature" regardless of how you dial it in. My plan is to record my primary guitar parts with a Peavey Rockmaster or ART DST-4, and then either double the parts or play backing parts using the HM-2 in some capacity. That should fatten up the overall tone, especially using something like the Tube EQ and possibly an SD Invader. It didn't sound nearly as good with a Bill Lawrence 500XL or SD Alternative 8 as with an Invader in essentially the same guitar.



That's the difference between the Taiwan and Japan, the Japanese one it is easy to dial in a defined tone. The Taiwanese is noticeably more fuzzy and high end heavy, not that the Japanese isn't high end heavy too.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 7, 2011)

There is a popular mod for the HM2 that removes a lot of the fizz and feedback. I have one modded but I prefer stock for some reason. There's more grit to them or something, and Entombed (my inspiration) never had theirs modded. I have over a dozen sitting around in my studio drawers actually, haha.


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## cyril v (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you notice any difference in tone between battery and a power supply? 

I can't find a 12vASA power supply to save my life, so I'm considering modding mine to accept the 9vPSA (the mod seems easy enough to do) though it is in such great shape I might cry a lil' bit.


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## Tomo009 (Mar 8, 2011)

cyril v said:


> Do you notice any difference in tone between battery and a power supply?
> 
> I can't find a 12vASA power supply to save my life, so I'm considering modding mine to accept the 9vPSA (the mod seems easy enough to do) though it is in such great shape I might cry a lil' bit.



I've found it doesn't react to bad power, in some power points in my house it creates insane feedback and strange scratchy noises when not playing. Both Taiwanese and Japanese versions.


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 8, 2011)

Jacobine said:


> what were your settings on the deathmetal pedal and on the pod?



on the Digitech DM peadal:

Level - 1/10
Low - hair below 9
Mid - hair above 9
High - hair below 9

here's the pod patch... I basically took my normal tone, lowered the gain and made the gate harder / tighter
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7675826/Mesa SDM.l6t
I used the MS-diamond plate, with the v30 cab, 57 off axis, screamer stomp box
Using a passive crunch lab in the bridge of my basswood Schecter... good luck!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 8, 2011)

Fuck yea Wookie, you nailed that At the Gates tone!


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 8, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> Fuck yea Wookie, you nailed that At the Gates tone!



Thanks dude. I plan on properly covering something off slaughter of the soul with this set up, real bass, and real VOKILLS 

So yeah. I think the key is using the pedal's mid knob to dial in that that saw-ish buzz... like at one point around 8-9 the knob just transforms into that sound... and the treble is there for more/less fizz


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 8, 2011)

You're going to need a weird lisp to sound like the vocalist on that album


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 8, 2011)

haha i never noticed that, thought it was just his accent


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah I don't know, it bothered me at first but since then I've grown to kind of like it.


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## epsylon (Mar 8, 2011)

nevermind


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## Ironbird666 (Mar 8, 2011)

cyril v said:


> Do you notice any difference in tone between battery and a power supply?
> 
> I can't find a 12vASA power supply to save my life, so I'm considering modding mine to accept the 9vPSA (the mod seems easy enough to do) though it is in such great shape I might cry a lil' bit.



Mine powers just fine with my One Spot.


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## Guitarman700 (Mar 8, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> on the Digitech DM peadal:
> 
> Level - 1/10
> Low - hair below 9
> ...


A million Internet points for you good sir. Been trying to get this exact tone since I bought my pod.


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## Zulphur (Mar 8, 2011)

Cool bands using the hm-2 nowdays


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## cyril v (Mar 8, 2011)

Ironbird666 said:


> Mine powers just fine with my One Spot.



But unless it has the diode mod then your pedal is definitely underpowered though, right? Based off of what I have read, if you're using a 9v One Spot; you're actually operating somewhere closer to ~5-6v.

edit: shit, i didn't know they made a 12v. I'll pick one up asap, thanks!

double edit: discontinued.


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## DLG (Mar 8, 2011)

Zulphur said:


> Cool bands using the hm-2 nowdays





Trap Them as well, love those guys personally even though most d-beat/entombed worship bands bore me.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 8, 2011)

If you want bands that use HM2s, make a list of grindcore and d-beat bands and throw a dart at it, I'd say a good 60-70% of the time you could bet that band uses or has used an HM2. Nails is real good though. I can't get into Black Breath. It was good at first, but they have parts that sound too much like a cheesy hardcore band, although each release gets a bit more metal-laced, so maybe they'll release something incredible before they fizzle out.


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## NovaReaper (Mar 8, 2011)

Yesterday I ran an ibanez ts9 to the hm2 into my engl power ball and it was muddy as hell with no note definition. I love dismember and entombed tones but I couldn't get it with that setup. Palm mutes sounded no different than held out notes or chords.


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## Wookieslayer (Mar 8, 2011)

I love Black Breath.

Hell yes



edit: holy crap was just listening to the real song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0yAnis--YM&feature=related


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## Jacobine (Mar 8, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> on the Digitech DM peadal:
> 
> Level - 1/10
> Low - hair below 9
> ...


 

how do you view the file?


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## cyril v (Mar 9, 2011)

pod farm maybe? it's a line 6 format.


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## Ishan (Mar 9, 2011)

For those on the cheap, the Behringer HM-300 is an HM-2 clone. It sounds great too


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## Tomo009 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ishan said:


> For those on the cheap, the Behringer HM-300 is an HM-2 clone. It sounds great too


Yeah I've only seen youtube videos of it but it sounds pretty accurate.
EDIT: From further listening, it is more like the HM-3, still ok but no substitute.


NovaReaper said:


> Yesterday I ran an ibanez ts9 to the hm2 into my engl power ball and it was muddy as hell with no note definition. I love dismember and entombed tones but I couldn't get it with that setup. Palm mutes sounded no different than held out notes or chords.



I haven't been able to get meaty palm mutes with the HM-2 I just don't think it really does them. I think the HM-2 always sounds better with a more "generic" distortion to back it up anyway.


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## Ironbird666 (Mar 18, 2011)

cyril v said:


> But unless it has the diode mod then your pedal is definitely underpowered though, right? Based off of what I have read, if you're using a 9v One Spot; you're actually operating somewhere closer to ~5-6v.
> 
> edit: shit, i didn't know they made a 12v. I'll pick one up asap, thanks!
> 
> double edit: discontinued.



Sorry for the late response, but the One Spot is made to be able to power the old Boss pedals that used the ACA adapters. 

"Boss PSA, Boss ACA, Danelectro DA-1, DOD PS-200R, Dunlop ECB-03, Ibanez AC-109, Korg A30950, Morley 9V, Zoom AD-0006.**"

That's taken from the site description. Hope that clears things up for you.


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