# The Dark Tower



## forelander (Jun 2, 2006)

I noticed in the tombstone thread there were a few fans about so I figured I'd start a thread about it rather than hijacking that one.

So what do you think? I've heard the first 4 books at least 4 times, wolves and susannah twice and the final only once. Didn't really care for the last book and if there's any discussion i'll go into more I guess. Despite that the books definitely rule. oy and roland are the best, and the slaughter of tull is one of the coolest action scenes in a book ever.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 2, 2006)

Great series. What more to say?

I loved the ending. I go for left-of-center concepts, particular in art and such. Who always wants to see the happy ending, good guys win, Sauron is vanquished, singing Elves, yay. Bleah.


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## forelander (Jun 2, 2006)

exactly...but why ignore everything he set up in the other books. The thing that pissed me off was the inconsistancy, one prime example being everything he set up in isomnia and black house about the CK, then at the end the CK had nothing to do with any of it. He just completely ignored it. lame.

The actual end didn't bother me at all, and the journey was definitely enjoyable, the inconsisties and his lame deus ex machina bothered me though.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 2, 2006)

I can see that. Although, in fairness, trying to tie all those plot elements together is a hefty task. For me, eh, it didn't personally bother me.


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## forelander (Jun 2, 2006)

it is a hefty task but it's one he created for himself. I dunno, just anything better than 'the writer isn't always right' would've been nice. 

what's your favourite moment in the series?


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 2, 2006)

When Roland and Eddie meet Stephen King, I think. It was so surreal.

You?


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## Chris (Jun 2, 2006)

W&G was probably my favorite of the four. It's been about two years since I've read them, but all the tales of Roland as a young lad going back and kicking fucking ass just rocked.  That, or the final fight in Wolves of the Calla, probably the two best moments in the series. Fuckin' awesome stuff.

I thought seven was excellent too, and the ending was fuckin' perfect. I read King's ending as well, after his "note from the author" thing, dug it, but to me the real story ended with the regular ending (I don't want to toss out spoilers).



> Who always wants to see the happy ending, good guys win, Sauron is vanquished, singing Elves, yay. Bleah.



Exactly. The ending (either the regular one, or the add-on), is brilliant. Anyone else pick up book 1 immediately and read the first few chapters as soon as seven was finished?


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## Cancer (Jun 2, 2006)

forelander said:


> The actual end didn't bother me at all, and the journey was definitely enjoyable, the inconsisties and his lame deus ex machina bothered me though.



To me, I thought that was the point, like it was ALL about the journey, and any plot destinations were more like pit stops.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 2, 2006)

Chris said:


> Exactly. The ending (either the regular one, or the add-on), is brilliant. Anyone else pick up book 1 immediately and read the first few chapters as soon as seven was finished?


Guilty as charged.  It was an odd feeling, wasn't it? Sorta like a melancholy deja vu.


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## Chris (Jun 2, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Guilty as charged.  It was an odd feeling, wasn't it? Sorta like a melancholy deja vu.



Yeah. I kinda wish I didn't read King's ending and just left it with:



Spoiler



Roland walking up the tower calling everyone's name



But I fuckin' devoured that series, so I had to read every last page.  If they ever made a LOTR-budgeted 7-movie epic out of it, I swear I'd have wood for a month.


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## Awakened Sleeper (Jun 2, 2006)

Great books, but the wait for the final 3 was a bit of a killer. I remember stumbling upon book 1 in my local library many moons ago and being both pissed and delighted it turned out to be the first in a series.
Don't know if you's have heard about this:

http://www.stephenking.com/pages/news/dt_marvel/

Could be interesting, shame it's been delayed a year though.


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## noodles (Jun 2, 2006)

I actually like how he left some loose ends. It gave more of the feeling that the universe is an extremely complicated place, beyond the comprehension of man, and a lot of stuff was forgotten when the world moved on. The last thing I really wanted was a Tolkein-esque approach of adding a few thousand more pages to explain every single detail. Follow that route, and we'd be on book twenty-five, reading about the significance of every pedal on the rose.



Spoiler



The ending really pissed me off, but then I realized that was exactly the reaction I was supposed to have. Look how Roland reacted with sheer horror when he realized what had happened before, and was happening again. Ka is a wheel. So much so that I immediately picked up book one and plowed through the whole thing again. It made a lot more sense the second time through, and I found myself catching things that were insignificant before, and ignoring things that seemed extremely important before. Remember that King is a horror/suspense writer most of the time, so he is really good at getting the reader to pay attention to things that don't matter, while he is hiding the real plot from you with cleverly hidden clues. Half of everything that is going to happen in the story is cleverly forshadowed in the first three books, but you completely miss it because you think Walter is far more important than he really is.



The best series I have ever read, I thankee sai.


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## Chris (Jun 2, 2006)

Added some spoiler tags to that shit, sai, for people like Drew. 

Also need to add that the scene in Tull where 



Spoiler



Roland fucking owns everyone, women and children, and reflects on it the whole time



Is fucking the penultimate scene in any book. It's that whole exchange that hooked me.


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## WayneCustom7 (Jun 2, 2006)

I just picked up Song of Susannah, but I have to finish Angels and Demons first...


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## Chris (Jun 2, 2006)

WayneCustom7 said:


> I just picked up Song of Susannah, but I have to finish Angels and Demons first...



[action=Chris]hopes you realize that isn't the first book. [/action]


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## WayneCustom7 (Jun 2, 2006)

Chris said:


> [action=Chris]hopes you realize that isn't the first book. [/action]


What do you mean?


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## Chris (Jun 3, 2006)

WayneCustom7 said:


> What do you mean?



SoS is the 6th book.


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## WayneCustom7 (Jun 3, 2006)

Chris said:


> SoS is the 6th book.


Fuck me, can someone provide me a brief summation from the previous 5 books then, please?


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## forelander (Jun 3, 2006)

why not just read them? In order they go:
gunslinger, the drawing of the 3, the wastelands, wizard and glass, wolves of the callah, song of susannah and the dark tower. In most of the books theres a fairly descriptive preface usually.


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## Chris (Jun 3, 2006)

You really, really need to read 'em in order to understand what's going on. 

Hell, if you start Song of Suzannah w/o knowing who Suzannah is well.. You won't really know what's up.


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## forelander (Jun 4, 2006)

Chris said:


> Added some spoiler tags to that shit, sai, for people like Drew.
> 
> Also need to add that the scene in Tull where
> 
> ...




Um...doesn't penultimate mean second to last?


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## Chris (Jun 4, 2006)

Read the rules of metal before I flex at you.


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## WayneCustom7 (Jun 4, 2006)

Edited because Paolo is. being a dick.

Don't ruin shit for the rest of us.


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## forelander (Jun 4, 2006)

after. long after.

in any case chris, what do you deem the ultimate scene in any book then?


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> Also need to add that the scene in Tull where
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Holy shit does that scene ever rule. The whole description


Spoiler



of it afterwards, with the trail of bodies he left behind, and the burned thumbs from reloading cartridges. "His fingers do the reloading trick," is an awesome description.


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## zak (Feb 25, 2007)

I was honestly a bit dissappointed with the ending...lol It actually left me with a few more questions.....I guess my distaste is that I do not fully understand the content of what happened. 

I read 185 pages of book 7 yesterday at work, then went home and finished the last 60...productive day!


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## WayneCustom7 (Feb 25, 2007)

I loved Wizard and Glass the best as well, fuck it made me weep like a girly man.
SK books and endings have always been somewhat of a mystery, so I wasn't surprised as to how this series ended either. I think for me the biggest build up to what was the most undewhelming ending was Wolves of Cala, without spoiling things, the build up for the battle occupied the entire book, leaving the battle about a few paragraphs in length...typical SK. Brings back memories of The Stand.


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## forelander (Feb 25, 2007)

I think the ending was annoying because after setting up everything he didn't really answer any of it. 

That aside has anyone else picked up the first dark tower comic book? Pretty cool. Also apparently there will be a film adaption (whether tv miniseries or whatever I'm not sure) directed by the guy that does lost.


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## WayneCustom7 (Feb 25, 2007)

forelander said:


> I think the ending was annoying because after setting up everything he didn't really answer any of it.
> 
> That aside has anyone else picked up the first dark tower comic book? Pretty cool. Also apparently there will be a film adaption (whether tv miniseries or whatever I'm not sure) directed by the guy that does lost.



No way...link please


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## noodles (Feb 25, 2007)

WayneCustom7 said:


> No way...link please



Look further up the thread.


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## WayneCustom7 (Feb 25, 2007)

noodles said:


> Look further up the thread.



Well I found the comic book link, but not the movie/TV series link...and stop playing game will ya!


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## forelander (Feb 26, 2007)

http://www.thedarktower.net/

First story on that page.


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## technomancer (Feb 26, 2007)

Sci Fi wire has the official scoop, it's big screen not TV. I'm seriously concerned that this is going to get butchered, as it will need a massive budget and multiple movies to be done remotely close to correctly.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=40310


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## noodles (Feb 26, 2007)

Everything hinges on who they get to play Roland. I think Clint Eastwood might be a bit too old now, but he is the logical choice. After all, that is who the character is modeled after.

He'd have to lose a lot of weight to get back to his TGTBTU look.


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## Chris (Feb 26, 2007)

Guy Pearce would be a good Roland, imo. Eastwood would have been perfect but he's just way too old now.







Lance Henriksen too, but imo he's not a high profile enough actor to really do the movie justice. They just wouldn't surround him with enough talent.


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## Chris (Feb 26, 2007)

> Stephen King, the prolific best-selling horror author, confirmed to New York Comic Con fans that Lost co-creators J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof will adapt his epic multi-volume book series The Dark Tower for the screen. "I said no to everybody until recently, because I didn't think much of the chances of it being a good movie," King said in a panel discussion launching Marvel Comics' new Dark Tower comic books at the New York City Comic Con on Feb. 24. "I mean, this is my life's work, since the time I was 22 years old. It's very important to me. Usually, with the other [books], I don't give much of a s--t. My attitude is, 'Go make a movie, and if it's good, that's terrific, and if it's bad, then it will go to the video stores and back shelves of Blockbuster, and I still get royalties on the book.'"
> 
> King also revealed that he even turned down an offer from his longtime collaborator, writer/director Frank Darabont, who previously adapted The Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile and is at work on other King adaptations. "Frank did come to me, and I know Frank from before either one of us had a pot to piss in," King said. "Frank said, 'Gee, I'd like to do Dark Tower.' I said, 'Frank, give me a break! You've got The Mist, The Monkey. You've got the prison stories. ... Stop putting so much on your plate!'"
> 
> King, who is an avowed fan of Lost, only agreed to relinquish the film rights to The Dark Tower when Abrams (Mission: Impossible III) and Lindelof approached him. "I know J.J. Abrams' work and Damon Lindelof, who is his collaborator on Lost," King said. "Damon is just a total comic-book freak, and he loves the Dark Tower books. I trust those guys, and they have a lot on the ball. When they said they wanted to talk about doing this, I said, 'You know what? Why don't you buy the option on this and see what you can come up with.' They asked, 'How much do you want for an option?' I said, '$19.' [It's a key amount that comes up frequently in the books.] And that's what they paid me, and that's where it is." Marvel and King's Dark Tower: The Gunslinger Born number one is available in stores now. &#8212;Tara DiLullo Bennett



Heh, right on Steve.

There's no way they'll do it justice with one movie though. There's just too much plot.


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## noodles (Feb 26, 2007)

I seriously doubt King would allow it to be one movie. Hell, they'll probably try to whittle it down to three, and that also cannot be done. IMHO, you need one movie alone to cover W&G.

Chris: Both of those are excellent choices. 

Too bad Haley Joel Osment is too old now. He would have made a good Jake. Kevin Spacey should play Walter.

If they get Jim Carey to play Eddie, I'm killing people.


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## forelander (Feb 26, 2007)

The movie will probably suck, but oh well. Maybe it won't. If its done high profile enough it shouldn't, if it's done like every other king adaption it will. Did anyone actually get the comic? I did and it was pretty cool.


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## WayneCustom7 (Feb 26, 2007)

Wow, I can't wait 

The only way to do this book justice, is a television series, and a lengthy one at that...


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## noodles (Feb 26, 2007)

forelander said:


> The movie will probably suck, but oh well. Maybe it won't. If its done high profile enough it shouldn't, if it's done like every other king adaption it will.





Stephen King said:


> I mean, this is my life's work, since the time I was 22 years old. It's very important to me. Usually, with the other [books], I don't give much of a shit. My attitude is, 'Go make a movie, and if it's good, that's terrific, and if it's bad, then it will go to the video stores and back shelves of Blockbuster, and I still get royalties on the book.


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## forelander (Feb 27, 2007)

Looking at what he did to the end of the book I don't really have much confidence in him, but that is a good start.


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## String Seraphim (Mar 1, 2007)

forelander said:


> Looking at what he did to the end of the book I don't really have much confidence in him, but that is a good start.



The whole point of the story was about Roland's journey. It was based on a poem by Robert Browning that exhibited this exaltation of the journey with Roland, the main character. The beginning and end have little to do with...well anything. It's all about the part inbetween.


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## forelander (Mar 1, 2007)

The actual story ending didn't bother me.


Spoiler



The fact that King didn't follow up on anything he began bothers me. The fact that the crimson king somehow went from evil lord of the universe and tower to screeching idiot bothered me. The fact that there was a court of the crimson king, that there were deadlights, that IT existed, that the beings in insomnia existed, that there was a furnace where children broke and not some hotel thing bothered me. The fact that the eyes of the dragon characters were never explained bothered me. The list goes on. There was just too much that could've been explained that wasn't, and every loose end is ignored with the convenient "other worlds, king created random stuff and it doesn't mean anything" excuse wasn't at all satisfactory. I'm rereading the series now and read things and wonder "man I wonder what happened to that person!?" because I have forgotten a lot, only to remember it was probably never explained.




Sure the journey was awesome, I love the books, but even you mustn't think much of the ending if your only explanation is that it's not important.


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## Chris (Mar 1, 2007)

You'll never sway me from my unabashed love of the series, but you do raise some very valid points.


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## Naren (Mar 1, 2007)

I've always wanted to read this series because it just looks so damn interesting, but I don't really want to get into a series where I have to read 7 novels to get the whole story.


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## Chris (Mar 1, 2007)

The thing is, each book is an entity in itself, there aren't many real "Buy the next book to see what happens!" moments. It's fuckin' awesome man.


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## Naren (Mar 1, 2007)

Maybe so, but I like to finish everything I start. There is one bookstore I know of about 5 minutes from where I work that might have the books (It's a 6-floor bookstore and the top floor is all foreign books: English, Chinese, Korean, German, etc. I've never bought anything there, but I assume they might have at least a few of the Dark Tower books). I remember a few years ago, I was really considering buying "The Gunslinger," but I thought, "Wait. If I read this, that means I have to read all these other books too." (the title "The Dark Tower" really caught my attention and when I read the description, it seemed just like the type of stuff I like. I looked at a little more detailed info on the net and got more interested). I didn't end up buying it because of the reason I mentioned, but I might take a look at that bookstore and see if they have it. If they do, I might end up buying it.

Update: I went to that bookstore (Kinokuniya) on my lunch break and went to the English (language, not country) fiction section on the sixth floor and they had about 25 Stephen King books. They had all of the Dark Tower books except for #2. It's interesting how each book gets longer. It was like #1 was a normal length, #3 was a lot bigger, #4 was a lot bigger, #5 was a lot lot bigger, #6 was even bigger, and #7 was huge (I think about 1300 pages or so if I remember correctly).

So I gave in and bought "The Gunslinger." I'll start reading this pretty soon, probably today.


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## String Seraphim (Mar 2, 2007)

forelander said:


> Sure the journey was awesome, I love the books, but even you mustn't think much of the ending if your only explanation is that it's not important.




I think everything of the ending. It completely drives home the concept I was embelishing before about the quest. I'm speaking in regards to the ending itself and its connotations not what you didn't like, which was the discrepancies King didn't expound on. I can't really defend any of that because thats all stuff you either missed or you'll have to take up with King. 



noodles said:


> I actually like how he left some loose ends. It gave more of the feeling that the universe is an extremely complicated place, beyond the comprehension of man, and a lot of stuff was forgotten when the world moved on. The last thing I really wanted was a Tolkein-esque approach of adding a few thousand more pages to explain every single detail. Follow that route, and we'd be on book twenty-five, reading about the significance of every pedal on the rose.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gonna' have to agree with Mr. Noodles on that one.


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## forelander (Mar 2, 2007)

I even could have lived without an explanation...It just would have been nice to be consistent with the story he'd set up so far, mostly in regard to the nature of the crimson king and breakers etc from black house and insomnia. 

I think everyone agrees the series is fucking awesome though, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Let's leave it at that and remember the better moments, such as the chemist in the second book. 

Also will the other 6 books ever be revised as gunslinger was? I'm sure he hinted at that in the foreward to the new gunslinger.


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## Naren (Mar 3, 2007)

forelander said:


> Also will the other 6 books ever be revised as gunslinger was? I'm sure he hinted at that in the foreward to the new gunslinger.



Well, I can't comment any on the stories since I haven't read any of them yet, but I can comment on the foreward since I just read it. He said that he always felt embarassed about "The Gunslinger" and was always apologizing for it saying, "Just bear with it. It gets a lot better with 'The Drawing Of The Three.'" So, from what I read, he seemed to be saying that "The Gunslinger" was the only one that really needed heavy revision. He said he started writing it in 1970 and got the last part of "The Gunslinger" published in 1981 (and then as a novel in 1982) and he said that was completely different from the normal way he writes novels, so he said he wanted to clean it up, fix mistakes in the story, etc. It didn't say anything about editing any of the other novels.


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## forelander (Mar 3, 2007)

I just skimmed it; he mentions that he views the series as one book, and that with this book he was "going back to the beginnings and starting the final overall revisions." Whether that means he plans on revising the rest of the books I'm not sure, but "overall revisions" hints at the rest of the books too.


EDIT:
"But the books themselves aren&#8217;t done. I was sayin&#8217; this in the panel. I&#8217;d like to rewrite them. Whether or not I&#8217;ll actually get that chance I don&#8217;t know, but I&#8217;d like to because to me they&#8217;re a first draft."

From this interview...

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31707


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## forelander (Mar 21, 2007)

Naren, how are you finding the series?

The comics are actually inventing a fair amount of back story, which is interesting if you take it with a grain of salt.


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## Naren (Mar 22, 2007)

I'm highly enjoying the series. Right now I'm 220 pages into "The Drawing of The Three." I thought the revised "Gunslinger" was very interesting, but "The Drawing Of The Three" is about twice as interesting. I like how he just wrote it however the hell he wanted to, not restricting it to Roland's world, and enabling him to go inside Eddie's mind or go inside the world himself, etc.

It's pretty dang interesting. At this rate, I'll probably be reading "The Waste Lands" by April. I didn't have work yesterday, so I watched a movie, read 150 pages in "The Drawing Of The Three" (I had to keep reading @[email protected]), and then had dinner with my girlfriend, watched a movie with her, and went to bed. I recommended the novels to her, since I've seen them in book stores before. What I think is interesting is that the series is called "Daaku Tawaa Shiriizu" in Japanese, which is almost the exact same as the English, but the 7th novel is called "Ankoku no Tou," which is the Japanese words for "The Dark Tower." (Other novel titles I remember are, "Madoushi to suishoudama" (Wizard And Glass), "Suzana no uta" (Song of Susannah), "Sannin no unmei" (The Drawing Of The Three), "Gansuringaa" (The Gunslinger), "Kaara no ookami" (Wolves Of The Calla), "Arechi" (The Waste Lands")).

Anyway, quite interesting series. I wouldn't even consider looking at the comics until I'd finished the novels.


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## forelander (Mar 22, 2007)

That is weird about the titles - any idea why they series and final book (which should bear the same name) were differently translated into japanese?

I am up to wizard and glass in my re-read. Kind of a slow point but still cool.


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## Naren (Mar 22, 2007)

forelander said:


> That is weird about the titles - any idea why they series and final book (which should bear the same name) were differently translated into japanese?



That's something they oftentimes do with series in Japan. For example, the novel series, "Lord Of The Rings" is called "Yubiwa Monogatari" in Japanese which means something like "Epic Of The Rings" or "Tale Of The Rings," but the movie series is called "Roodo Obu Za Ringu" (just phonetically turned into Japanese), but the movies themselves have titles in Japanese. And, a lot of Japanese Stephen King fans think that "Daaku Tawaa" sounds cool for the series, but each book title has to be easily understandable and, although most Japanese would understand both the word "daaku" (used in a zillion Japanese animations, comics, and video games) and the word "tawaa" (there is a famous eiffel tower-type building in Tokyo called Tokyo Tower - "Toukyou Tawaa"), meaningwise, "Ankoku no tou" (literally "The Dark Tower" in Japanese) sounds a lot cooler and very much clarifies the meaning of phrase. I think in the books themselves, the dark tower is ALWAYS referred to as "ankoku no tou," but in the title of the series, it is called "daaku tawaa." 

There are a billion examples of similar things in Japan.


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## forelander (Mar 23, 2007)

So would ankoku no tou and daaku tawaa mean exactly the same thing to a japanese person or something slightly different? That is actually very cool, adds an extra dimension to the language. I have gotten more interested in japanese since watching heroes and the characters hiro and ando, it's pretty cool.


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## Naren (Mar 23, 2007)

forelander said:


> So would ankoku no tou and daaku tawaa mean exactly the same thing to a japanese person or something slightly different? That is actually very cool, adds an extra dimension to the language. I have gotten more interested in japanese since watching heroes and the characters hiro and ando, it's pretty cool.



Well, "Daaku Tawaa" is just taken directly from the English words "Dark Tower." I personally think "Daaku" gives it a kind of Japanimation/sci-fi/fantasy type feel (and not the kind of "horror" feel you kind of get in English) and the "tawaa" gives it more of a modern-tower type feel (like I said earlier. Kinda like the Eiffel Tower. Although it is clear from the artwork and atmosphere of the novel that it's an ancient style tower).

While they do mean the same thing, the Japanese words have a much deeper meaning and they could be interpreted kind of like this:

Daaku Tawaa - Dark Tower
Ankoku No Tou - The Monolith of Darkness ("The Dark Tower," whatever)

("Ankoku" literally means "Darkness." When put as "Ankoku no" - it's like "The Dark _____" but it infers that it belongs to Darkness. "Tou" just means tower, but it is not used too often to refer to modern towers. It is more often used to refer to pagodas, ancient European towers, etc.).

On a side note, any elderly Japanese would understand "Ankoku no tou," but a lot of them would have no idea what "Daaku tawaa" means.


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## Naren (Mar 26, 2007)

Update: Well, I finished "The Drawing Of The Three" today and I'm probably gonna start on "The Waste Lands" tomorrow.

"The Drawing Of The Three" was even better than "The Gunslinger."  



Spoiler



I especially liked how he killed Jack Mort like that. I was thinking he was gonna add him begrudgingly to his ka-tet. I thought the part with Eddie when Roland first went through the door was really cool. Detta kept getting on my nerves. I woulda bitch slapped her. Overall a cool book


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## noodles (Mar 26, 2007)

Naren said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I especially liked how he killed Jack Mort like that. I was thinking he was gonna add him begrudgingly to his ka-tet. I thought the part with Eddie when Roland first went through the door was really cool. Detta kept getting on my nerves. I woulda bitch slapped her. Overall a cool book



Yes, yes, and yes. 

You'll like Wastelands, because it really gives you insight into the person Roland is now. It is a lot of back story that will help later on, and if you ever go back and reread the series, parts of the first three books will make much more sense.

After this is the hard part. Wolves of the Calla and Song of Susannah are kinda...well, boring at times. They were absolutely my least favorite books in the series, although you absolutely need all the valuable information they provide. They really are the setup for everything that happens in the final book.


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## Naren (Mar 26, 2007)

noodles said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.
> 
> You'll like Wastelands, because it really gives you insight into the person Roland is now. It is a lot of back story that will help later on, and if you ever go back and reread the series, parts of the first three books will make much more sense.
> 
> After this is the hard part. Wolves of the Calla and Song of Susannah are kinda...well, boring at times. They were absolutely my least favorite books in the series, although you absolutely need all the valuable information they provide. They really are the setup for everything that happens in the final book.



Yeah, some people have told me that "Wizard And Glass" is the best in the series, but that the next 2 after it can be kind of boring, but that all the information is essential to get the final book. 

Well, so far, the 2 books I've read have both been very easy reading, but "The Drawing Of The Three" was incredibly easy reading. I breezed through that. The whole novel casually read in about 1 and a half weeks (without me reading every day). 

While I have an idea what "Wizard and Glass" is about, I have no idea what "The Waste Lands" is about. So I guess I'll just have to find out (pretty cool art on the cover of the book too).


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## noodles (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh shit, I was thinking you were on 2, not 3. Yeah, Wastelands feels like a continuation of Drawing. It is a page turner.


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## Naren (Mar 26, 2007)

noodles said:


> Oh shit, I was thinking you were on 2, not 3. Yeah, Wastelands feels like a continuation of Drawing. It is a page turner.



I finished Drawing yesterday. I'll probably be going to the bookstore in an hour during my lunch break to pick up Wastelands. Glad to hear it's a page turner.  Those are always fun to read.


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## Chris (Mar 27, 2007)

I liked Wizard and Glass the best by far. It's all about Roland's youth, and is chock-full of ass kicking. 

Wolves of Calla starts out slow, but 



Spoiler



The end battle is fucking awesome, and imo makes it worth it.


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## The Dark Wolf (Mar 27, 2007)

My two favorite, as well. WoC was bad-ass (and the first DT book I read. Odd way to start, I know).


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## Naren (Mar 27, 2007)

I ended up buying both "The Wastelands" and "Wizard And Glass" since I'll end up reading it anyway after I finish "The Wastelands."


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## noodles (Mar 27, 2007)

Chris said:


> Wolves of Calla starts out slow, but
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chris (Mar 27, 2007)

'Tis just a bit of the rheumatis.



Spoiler



I love how Roland gets all fucked up as the story goes on, between losing his fingers, arthritis, etc, yet the whole time just kicks more and more ass.


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## Drew (Mar 27, 2007)

I need to start in on this series, don't i? 

I also need more bookshelves.


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## noodles (Mar 27, 2007)

Chris said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I love how Roland gets all fucked up as the story goes on, between losing his fingers, arthritis, etc, yet the whole time just kicks more and more ass.





Spoiler



How the fuck did he gut, skin, and tan deer hides with a fucked up hand?


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## forelander (Mar 27, 2007)

Spoiler



'Cause Roland is badass. And that is the truth.



Wizard and glass kicks ass. I'm almost finished it now.


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## Chris (Mar 27, 2007)

Drew said:


> I need to start in on this series, don't i?
> 
> I also need more bookshelves.



Yes.


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## Chris (Mar 27, 2007)

forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Best ending chain of events of all 4 books. Absolutely badass.


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## forelander (Mar 28, 2007)

I'm up to the climax now. It took so much effort to put it down, especially considering I know the badassness of what's about to happen.



Spoiler



So fucking sad though.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 31, 2007)

Guess what?



Spoiler



i just bought the first book \m/


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## Naren (Mar 31, 2007)

Metal Ken said:


> Guess what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent series.  I hope you dig it as much as I do. Did you buy it based on my recommendation?  Or on the combination of mine, Chris', noodles', TDW's, forelander's, and all the other people in this thread. 

Naren update: I'm currently on "book 2" of "The Wastelands" (around page 310 or so). That whole thing about Jake was awesome. In the first 2 books, they didn't really explain much of anything about how the world works and about how to find the tower (but still had tons of super cool kickass scenes), but The Wastelands is chock full of that stuff and it's so fucking interesting. I loved the parts with Shardik, the portals, etc.



Spoiler



It's awesome how Roland and Jake were going insane because Roland changed history like that. It made perfect sense and was one of the most logical approaches I've ever seen on that subject without just ignoring what you did. I also loved the crazy essay Jake wrote that the teacher said was brilliant. My best friend and I wrote a ridiculous nonsensical literary poem/analysis/essay in high school that was basically mocking several authors we were reading and our teacher thought it was amazing and told our mothers we were geniuses too.  And all the connections between our world and Roland's were especially kickass.



I'll probably finish this book much faster than I'd thought. I just started reading it less than a week ago and I'll probably have it finished in just a few days. Can't wait to get to "Wizard and Glass."


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 31, 2007)

Drew said:


> I need to start in on this series, don't i?
> 
> I also need more bookshelves.



I know the feeling!


----------



## Metal Ken (Mar 31, 2007)

Naren said:


> Excellent series.  I hope you dig it as much as I do. Did you buy it based on my recommendation?  Or on the combination of mine, Chris', noodles', TDW's, forelander's, and all the other people in this thread.


I've been wanting to get into it ever since i found out the first book was called "Gunslinger". Anything relating to gunslinger-ing is badass. plus this thread really pushed me to it. So all of you guys really 

i'm not gonna start reading it till i finish The Stand, though. I bought both at the same time. i figured i'd do the Stand first, since it isn't part of a 7 book series.


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## zak (Mar 31, 2007)

Naren said:


> Yeah, some people have told me that "Wizard And Glass" is the best in the series, but that the next 2 after it can be kind of boring, but that all the information is essential to get the final book.
> 
> Well, so far, the 2 books I've read have both been very easy reading, but "The Drawing Of The Three" was incredibly easy reading. I breezed through that. The whole novel casually read in about 1 and a half weeks (without me reading every day).
> 
> While I have an idea what "Wizard and Glass" is about, I have no idea what "The Waste Lands" is about. So I guess I'll just have to find out (pretty cool art on the cover of the book too).



I'll make the chase, that the Wizard and the Glass is quite possibly the best book stephen king has written. I dont want to give any spoilers, but if you can get yourself into the books the way I submergerged myself to read them, then you'll be amazed with the quality and material of the 4th installation of the book.


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## forelander (Mar 31, 2007)

Started wolves of the calla last night. Glad to see so many people are getting into the series, and enjoying it thoroughly. I'll be interested to see what you think of the last book, though having not read insomnia/the talisman (fucking awesome book by the way)/black house, you probably won't have much to be pissed off about I suppose. 

Wizard and glass was awesome by the way, possibly my favourite so far in the re-read.


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## Chris (Apr 1, 2007)

forelander said:


> I'm up to the climax now. It took so much effort to put it down, especially considering I know the badassness of what's about to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read that whole book in one sitting. Agreed.


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## Chris (Apr 1, 2007)

forelander said:


> Started wolves of the calla last night. Glad to see so many people are getting into the series, and enjoying it thoroughly. I'll be interested to see what you think of the last book, though having not read insomnia/the talisman (fucking awesome book by the way)/black house, you probably won't have much to be pissed off about I suppose.
> 
> Wizard and glass was awesome by the way, possibly my favourite so far in the re-read.



Black House was fucking awesome.


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## Chris (Apr 1, 2007)

zak said:


> I'll make the chase, that the Wizard and the Glass is quite possibly the best book stephen king has written. I dont want to give any spoilers, but if you can get yourself into the books the way I submergerged myself to read them, then you'll be amazed with the quality and material of the 4th installation of the book.



Agree 100%. It's one of those things that if/when the DT movie comes out, they HAVE to do more than one movie, because to try and cram all of W/G into like 20 minutes of a 2 hour movie would just be impossible.


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## Naren (Apr 1, 2007)

Chris said:


> Agree 100%. It's one of those things that if/when the DT movie comes out, they HAVE to do more than one movie, because to try and cram all of W/G into like 20 minutes of a 2 hour movie would just be impossible.



I could see maybe combining "The Gunslinger" and "The Drawing Of The Three" into one movie of about 2 hours and so many minutes, but to try to do the whole series in one movie would be madness. Really, you'd have to make it a minimum of 4 movies, I think (optimally 7 movies, but that's probably pretty unrealistic). "The Wastelands" itself could be turned into two movies, between "Book 1: Jake" and "Book 2: Lud" (on that topic, "The Drawing Of The Three" could be turned into several movies as well, considering all the material).


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## forelander (Apr 1, 2007)

Yeah gunslinger and drawing of the 3 could be combined - there's not really enough material in gunslinger to make an entire movie out of. Wastelands would be a whole movie, as would wizard and glass. Wolves of the calla, song of susannah and the dark tower could be split into 2 movies. I reckon it'd take at least that many, and lengthy ones, to do the series any justice.


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## Naren (Apr 4, 2007)

Naren update: Just finished "The Wastelands" tonight. Luckily I had already bought "Wizard and Glass" the last time I was at Kinokuniya, so I'll be starting that up probably tomorrow (or at least Friday). 

"The Wastelands" was a very very interesting and entertaining book. Of the three books I've read so far, it's the only one that explains how the world (portals, dark tower, beams, etc.) works and connections to our world. It was very suspenseful and intriguing at the same time. I'm looking forward to starting "Wizard and Glass."


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## forelander (Apr 12, 2007)

The third comic is out and I got it today. How's wizard and glass going, Naren? I am up to Song of Susannah. Wolves was pretty cool second time round.


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## Naren (Apr 12, 2007)

Going pretty sweet. I just got to page 420 last night. I'm a little over half way done. Roland sure is a major badass as an adult, but he was quite the badass as a 14 and 15 year old too. At that age, having sex with a 16 year old girl every single day for a few months (and like 3-4 times each day), completely owning that big coffin hunters group, and just plain being awesome. Not as cool as he is in, for example, "The Gunslinger" - but probably the coolest 14/15 year old out there.

I'm almost at the climax of the story.


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## Naren (Apr 15, 2007)

Naren update #205:
Just finished "Wizard and Glass" today. Dang good story.



Spoiler



I wish Roland would have gone back to the town after he saw Susan killed in the glass and killed everyone there like he did with Tull in the first novel. That Rhea character really got on my nerves. Lotsa irritating stuff going in there.



I'll probably buy "Wolves of the Calla" sometime this week. I'm kinda busy this week, so I don't know when I'll be able to start reading it in depth, but by next week, I should be able to dig in.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

WoC is great - it has some slow spots, but the ending is totally badass.


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## Naren (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> WoC is great - it has some slow spots, but the ending is totally badass.



I'm looking forward to it. I've liked everything I've read so far. The first book had me extremely interested and the second book got me addicted.  

Nothing stopping me now. I'll definitely have the whole series finished by the end of the summer (maybe even faster than that, considering how fast I've been reading lately).


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

I read book 7 in one day.


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## noodles (Apr 15, 2007)

^ It took me a week. I seriously thought about calling out sick one day to finish it.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

[derail]
Read Malazan, Dave. 
[/derail]


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## noodles (Apr 15, 2007)

<insert Chris' description of Malazan here>


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

Learn2Search, Nub! 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22435&highlight=malazan


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> [derail]
> Read Malazan, Dave.
> [/derail]





It's one of my favorite fantasy series.

But THIS still takes the cake over everything, even TDT, for me. Handily.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

[action=Chris]likes WoT better than SOIAF[/action]

[action=Chris]will stop derailing the TDT thread now [/action]


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

That's another one of my favs. Apples and Oranges, I suppose. Put it this way...


ASOIAF
WoT
TDT
TMBotF

We like all four series utterly. That's kinda cool.


As an aside. I've been reading WoT for more than half my life. The first book, The Eye of the World, came out in like '90, and I got it then. Been reading since. That's a looooong fuckin' time to follow a series! 

Ok, back to the thread. *guilty*


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26737


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## Naren (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> I read book 7 in one day.



The longest book I've read in a short period of time was probably "The Brothers Dostoyevsky" which I read the first 200 pages in a week and then the next 800 pages in like 2 days. Of course, when I was in fifth grade, I'd read a 250-300 page book in one day (one of the reasons I pursued writing and got a college degree in English with a concentration in Creative Writing). Once I got into high school, the books I read got a lot longer though...

For me, I read Gunslinger in about 1 and a half weeks, The Drawing of The Three in about one week, The Waste Lands in about one and half to two weeks, and Wizard and Glass in a little over one week. I think that's a pretty good pace.


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## noodles (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> Learn2Search, Nub!
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22435&highlight=malazan



Hey, *you* wanted me to read it. I didn't feel motivated enough to go looking.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Naren said:


> For me, I read Gunslinger in about 1 and a half weeks, The Drawing of The Three in about one week, The Waste Lands in about one and half to two weeks, and Wizard and Glass in a little over one week. I think that's a pretty good pace.



Fuck reading enjoyable books fast. I want to savor them like a fan fine, not gulp them down like cheap beer.


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## Naren (Apr 16, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Fuck reading enjoyable books fast. I want to savor them like a fan fine, not gulp them down like cheap beer.



Then I guess I'm the opposite of you in that regard. If I'm reading a book slow, that usually means I think it's boring. If I'm reading it fast, that means I like it. I have this one book that I've been reading for over 5 months now and I'm not finished. It's not "boring" persay, but it's not extremely interesting either. On the other hand, I read through "Wizard and Glass" in about 1-2 weeks because I found it extremely interesting.

I don't read through books fast because I "want to get the damn things over with" or anything like that. I read them because I want to know what happens next. So, instead of going to bed when I should, I end up staying up later reading further and then begrudgingly put the book down. When I was in college, I'd oftentimes stay up till 4am reading a book when I had planned to go to bed at 1:30am or 2am.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

Well, there's "reading slow" and then there's "reading slow."

What you are describing sounds more like not putting the time actually into the reading. I can physically read fast as heck, but when I'm reading something for fun, sure, I might not put it off, per se, and read it here and there. I might (and probably will) read it consistently and for a lengthy period of time at a sitting (just like you).

But I don't rush through the actual reading aspect, at near my top "speed", preferring to slow down, re-read passages I enjoy, and savor the writing.


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## Naren (Apr 16, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Well, there's "reading slow" and then there's "reading slow."
> 
> What you are describing sounds more like not putting the time actually into the reading. I can physically read fast as heck, but when I'm reading something for fun, sure, I might not put it off, per se, and read it here and there. I might (and probably will) read it consistently and for a lengthy period of time at a sitting (just like you).
> 
> But I don't rush through the actual reading aspect, at near my top "speed", preferring to slow down, re-read passages I enjoy, and savor the writing.



I never read _anything_ "fast" in the way you're describing. When I say "read fast," I don't mean that I read 400 pages in 1 hour. For me, "reading a book fast" means reading that book in 3 days as opposed to 2 months. For me, both novels of the same length will take the same amount of hours to read, but the more interesting one will be finished sooner.

Whether I'm reading something very very very boring that I don't want to read or the most interesting book I've ever read, for me, the speed will be exactly the same. But, how much time and effort I put into these two pieces of "literature" will be completely different.

Even if I hated a book, I wouldn't rush through the reading. If I was going to do that, I'd just stop reading the book and sell it somewhere or give it to someone and say, "I didn't like it. So I quit reading." There was a novel in college that I had to read and I hated that novel so much, but I read it at the same speed as everything else. It was about 600 pages long and I just quit reading it at 300 pages because I considered it a waste of my time.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

Not for me. If I'm reading something less interesting, or not essential, I will read "fast" - an abbreviated form of speed reading, I suppose.

But if I enjoy a work, or a deeper level of understanding is required, I will read much slower, and often re-read passages, or stop and ponder what I had read for a moment.


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## Naren (Apr 16, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Not for me. If I'm reading something less interesting, or not essential, I will read "fast" - an abbreviated form of speed reading, I suppose.
> 
> But if I enjoy a work, or a deeper level of understanding is required, I will read much slower, and often re-read passages, or stop and ponder what I had read for a moment.



Well, everyone's different, I guess. I never speed read or read at a faster pace than my usual. 

Whether I really enjoy a work or hate a work, I will read at the same speed. In both cases, I will oftentimes re-read parts that "struck" me or seemed important to me (there are parts of The Dark Tower series that I would re-read 3 times and think about what it meant).

I guess we are coming from two completely different ways of reading. I've never understood speed reading in any way. Someone once asked me if I'd like to take a speed reading course and the idea horrified me. If I don't read at the speed I do, I can't enjoy a novel. Whishing over everything at a blazing speed would be like watching a movie in fastforward.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

Naren said:


> Well, everyone's different, I guess. I never speed read or read at a faster pace than my usual.



Hmm. That's odd. I would equate that to always walking, all the time, everywhere you are, at the same speed. Never varying it in regards to circumstances.

Sometimes I walk fast, sometimes very slow (in particular if I'm wanting to enjoy scenery), sometimes I run, or jog...

Different speeds for different occasions.


I can read large blocks of text at a glance, but comprehension isn't as accurate or as deep as slowly reading a passage. It's like, eating a steak or something. I could wolf it down, but I can't really taste the subtleties there. But if I eat it slowly, I can taste every little seasoning.


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## Naren (Apr 16, 2007)

But reading is not like walking. I don't think it's like eating either. Reading is like... well, it's like reading. 

While I said I do read at the same pace all the time, there are obviously variations in the speed. If I'm going over a very easy-to-read part of the text, the speed of the reading might go a little faster or if I'm going over a very technical part of the text, I might go a little slower.

But I have better retention than anyone else I've ever met. Especially when reading novels, I think that the information, no matter how slight, might be important further on in the story, so I try to remember every detail. I have a very good memory. Just like in playing guitar, I can learn a song one week and the next week everyone else might have forgotten how it went, but I might remember every detail of it (Of course, my reading retension is a lot better than my music retension).

I guess that if I felt like "gobbling" some text, I would consider it not worth reading in the first place.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

Naren said:


> But reading is not like walking. I don't think it's like eating either. Reading is like... well, it's like reading.



I see your point, but I disagree. It's very similar, at least for me. It's a metaphorical equivalent. Just because they're using 2 separate skill sets doesn't mean they don't have similarities that we can draw analogs from.



Naren said:


> I guess that if I felt like "gobbling" some text, I would consider it not worth reading in the first place.


What about a short news article, for instance? You may (well, I do), scan the topics, get a gist of what is going on, and then read more thoroughly an article that more interests you. You may even re-read something if it seems especially interesting.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

I think we're taking this thread seriously off-topic, Eric.  Enuff of that from me, you have the last word should you choose.


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## Naren (Apr 16, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> What about a short news article, for instance? You may (well, I do), scan the topics, get a gist of what is going on, and then read more thoroughly an article that more interests you. You may even re-read something if it seems especially interesting.



I may scan the title and decide whether or not to read it from the title. I might even start reading it and decide that I made a mistake and stop reading it halfway through, but I never "skim" through an article. It strikes me as pointless. It just gets you a "general idea" of what happened and is very open to misinterpretation and misunderstanding (for example, taking a quote out of context because you only skimmed over the text around it).

My way of reading works for me. I read for two reasons: enjoyment and comprehension. Enjoyment is not always present in everything I read, but comprehension always is. And I guess that's one reason why I don't really skim or speed read.


This has now gone completely off-topic from the dark tower... 



The Dark Wolf said:


> I think we're taking this thread seriously off-topic, Eric.  Enuff of that from me, you have the last word should you choose.



Didn't get this post until after I posted, but it looks like we had the same idea.


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## noodles (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm somewhere in between both Bob and Naren. The first time through any new book, I plowed through at top speed, desperate to find out what happened next. I started reading this books in 1991, so I was waiting for three more books to come out, and the questions in my head were damn near haunting me.

Later, after I made it through, I'd go back and comb through slowly, catching every last little detail. Considering that I would start from book one whenever I got news of the next book's publication date, plus the mandatory series re-read when I completed book seven, plus a few more times since, I've probably read the damn things a minimum of four times each.


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## forelander (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm up to the final book. 

The first time I read it I read it in a day because I wanted to know how it ended. I will be curious to see what you think of the last 3 books Naren.


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## Naren (Apr 17, 2007)

forelander said:


> I'm up to the final book.
> 
> The first time I read it I read it in a day because I wanted to know how it ended. I will be curious to see what you think of the last 3 books Naren.



I went to the bookstore yesterday and then to the Stephen King section. They had "The Gunslinger," "The Drawing Of The Three," "The Wastelands," "Wizard and Glass," and "The Dark Tower" but they were missing the two I need next: "Wolves of the Calla" and "Song of Susannah." Ah, my luck... 

I think I might go back there tomorrow around lunch and see if they have them then (it's the biggest bookstore in Shinjuku, which is the main reason they even have English books in the first place, so they replace books pretty quickly there). If they still don't have them, I'll ask them to order "Wolves Of The Calla" for me.


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## Naren (Apr 20, 2007)

They still don't have "Wolves of the Calla."  I went there enough times that I finally gave up and ordered it, but they said it'll take 2-3 weeks for it to come in (since they ordered from the US. I could have gotten the Japanese language version, but... no, that would't have been the moral thing to do...) So, I'm left waiting for my book for 2-3 weeks.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 20, 2007)

^ That sucks. I hate waiting on a book, especially in the middle of a series.

Of course this is a tiny micro-example of what King/DT fans had to go through originally, since it took years and YEARS for Wolves to come out. How ironic you have to sample that pain, dude.


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## Naren (Apr 20, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> ^ That sucks. I hate waiting on a book, especially in the middle of a series.
> 
> Of course this is a tiny micro-example of what King/DT fans had to go through originally, since it took years and YEARS for Wolves to come out. How ironic you have to sample that pain, dude.



 And I was thinking "Now that the whole series is out, I'll never have to wait at all."

... but now I do!


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 20, 2007)

Naren said:


> And I was thinking "Now that the whole series is out, I'll never have to wait at all."
> 
> ... but now I do!



Isn't it ironic... 

Don'tcha think?


----------



## Naren (Apr 20, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Isn't it ironic...
> 
> Don'tcha think?



Aye, I do. I warrant I do, sai.


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## forelander (Apr 20, 2007)

I am enjoying the 7th book. I actually forgot substantial amounts of what happened...probably because I read it all in a day.


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## Naren (Apr 20, 2007)

forelander said:


> I am enjoying the 7th book. I actually forgot substantial amounts of what happened...probably because I read it all in a day.



I was actually tempted to buy the 7th book (since they had 3 copies of it at the book store, along with copies of books 1-4, but they were missing 5 and 6 which I need) considering they didn't have the books I needed, but I wisely decided against it, knowing that I'd regret it, having not read "Wolves of the Calla" or "Song of Susannah." BUT THEY DON'T HAVE EITHER OF THEM.

 Maybe they'll have a copy of "Song of Susannah" in when my copy of "Wolve of the Callah" arrives...


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## noodles (Apr 20, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Of course this is a tiny micro-example of what King/DT fans had to go through originally, since it took years and YEARS for Wolves to come out.



Yeah, like me.


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## forelander (Apr 20, 2007)

Naren said:


> I was actually tempted to buy the 7th book (since they had 3 copies of it at the book store, along with copies of books 1-4, but they were missing 5 and 6 which I need) considering they didn't have the books I needed, but I wisely decided against it, knowing that I'd regret it, having not read "Wolves of the Calla" or "Song of Susannah." BUT THEY DON'T HAVE EITHER OF THEM.
> 
> Maybe they'll have a copy of "Song of Susannah" in when my copy of "Wolve of the Callah" arrives...



If you skip straight to book 7 you'll have no idea what's going on. Books 5, 6 and the first half of 7 are pretty much one giant book, and the second half of 7 ties in very strongly. So maybe just get 7 so you don't have to wait when you finally finish 6.


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## Naren (Apr 20, 2007)

forelander said:


> If you skip straight to book 7 you'll have no idea what's going on. Books 5, 6 and the first half of 7 are pretty much one giant book, and the second half of 7 ties in very strongly. So maybe just get 7 so you don't have to wait when you finally finish 6.



That was the reason I was thinking of getting it now (not to read it, but to have it so that I don't have to buy it when I finished the next two), but I thought that I'd be tempted to flip through it, which would be a baaaad idea. And I'm pretty sure they'll have copies of it after I've finished the other two, since they always have more copies of book 7 than any of the others at that bookstore.


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## forelander (Apr 21, 2007)

I finished the 7th book last night. Having forgotten pretty much all of the 40 odd King books I read in search of Dark Tower tie-ins, I wasn't as brutally disappointed this time. Keeping in mind I was never disappointed by the VERY end, just that the tie-ins didn't pan out quite as I would've hoped. 

Naren, this is about to contain MAJOR spoilers from the 7th book. Don't read this at all, same for anyone who hasn't read the 7th book. Or even the 6th for that matter. 



Spoiler



Also, as far as the very end goes, now I just wanna know what happens next. "Things can be different Gunslinger." Different how? My guess is at some point he gets smart enough to cry off after saving the beams, probably with Susannah, taking Oy and Patrick with him, finding similar happiness to what Susannah found.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 22, 2007)

On a related note, I just read, and really enjoyed, Robert Browning's original poem, 'Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came', so I'm tempted to give this series a go now...


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## Naren (Apr 22, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> On a related note, I just read, and really enjoyed, Robert Browning's original poem, 'Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came', so I'm tempted to give this series a go now...



I read that poem. I think it's "eh, okay." You can't really compare this series to that poem since they are completely different types of literature. This series is only very very loosely based off of that poem (for example, the "Cuthbert" briefly mentioned in the poem is a major character in Roland's life in the novels. The character "who lied in every word" mentioned at the beginning of the poem is a major character in the novels). Very loosely based off of it.

But I'd definitely recommend the series to you. Knowing the kind of comics and stuff you like, I'm pretty sure you'd like it.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Apr 25, 2007)

Naren said:


> I read that poem. I think it's "eh, okay." You can't really compare this series to that poem since they are completely different types of literature. This series is only very very loosely based off of that poem (for example, the "Cuthbert" briefly mentioned in the poem is a major character in Roland's life in the novels. The character "who lied in every word" mentioned at the beginning of the poem is a major character in the novels). Very loosely based off of it.
> 
> But I'd definitely recommend the series to you. Knowing the kind of comics and stuff you like, I'm pretty sure you'd like it.



Cheers. Post-exams when I've got lots of time for reading, I'll definitely give it a go!


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## forelander (Apr 28, 2007)

Favourite Character - Oy. Tied with Roland.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 29, 2007)

I actually had a real soft spot for Oy, too.


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## noodles (Apr 29, 2007)

Oy is the shit.


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## Naren (Apr 29, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> I actually had a real soft spot for Oy, too.



I love Oy. 

... I have a sneaking suspicious he's going to die, though. 

And, on a side note, my copy of "Wolves Of The Calla" _still_ isn't in.  Bastards.


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## forelander (Apr 29, 2007)

Crack some skulls.

Or just go in and shoot the place up, gunslinger style. Roland style.

Oy is awesome. There should be an entire book about just Oy. Doing cool stuff.


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## Naren (Apr 29, 2007)

forelander said:


> Crack some skulls.
> 
> Or just go in and shoot the place up, gunslinger style. Roland style.



Unfortunately I can't instantly transport to another world like Roland can (or at least like he could in "Drawing of the Three"). So, if I end up doing that, they'll either kill me or haul me off to jail. 

They told me 2-3 weeks. It should be just about 2 weeks now...


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 29, 2007)

Waiting for stuff you really want is both cool, and sucks. 

Cool, in that the anticipation builds,. and when you finally get it, your happiness is Level 99, 999 Hit points. But the waiting to build to it, argh!


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## Naren (Apr 29, 2007)

I know. Every day when I go to my post box, I'm hoping that the post card will be in there to let me know that my book is in... but it's never there.


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## Naren (May 5, 2007)

Naren update: After band practice today, I went to buy my commuting pass (I think that's what you'd call one of these in English) in Shinjuku and, since I was out there, I went to Kinokuniya (the bookstore I ordered my book from), and they has 2 copies of "Wolves Of The Calla"! I had a sneaking suspision that neither of them were mine (since they were out there for sale), so I talked to the lady at the information desk to see if it had come in yet since I saw two copies over there (and I had been checking the store for 3-4 weeks and not one copy ever came in). She said that my book hadn't come in, but she let me get one of the copies over there and said she'd put the book I ordered in its place. 

I've only read the first 20-30 pages so far (mostly on the trainride back home), but it follows my theory that each Dark Tower book is longer than the next. The only novel that I don't know the length of is "Song Of Susannah." But, if it fits between 900 pages (WotC) and 1100 pages (tDT), then my theory from the very beginning fits for all 7 books (TG: 300, tDotT: 463, tWL: 590, WaG: 718, WotC: 925, SoS: ???, tDT: about 1100. Don't own it, so I don't know the exact number).

Looking forward to reading this one. Probably get more into it later today.


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## forelander (May 5, 2007)

Song of Susannah is about as long as gunslinger, maybe a little longer. Sorry to ruin your theory.


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## Naren (May 5, 2007)

forelander said:


> Song of Susannah is about as long as gunslinger, maybe a little longer. Soory to ruin your theory.



Whaaaaaaaaaaa?  That's completely out of character.  With the 6 novels I know getting longer and longer and longer, suddenly the second to last returns to the same length as the shortest one? Crazy... 


Edit: Just checked Amazon.com. You are correct that "Song Of Susannah" does not fit my theory, but it is twice as long as "The Gunslinger," over a hundred pages longer than "Drawing of the Three" and about the same length as "The Waste Lands."


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## forelander (May 5, 2007)

Weird, I thought it was way shorter than wastelands. It's hard for me to say; I have the first four books as soft covers and the last 3 as hardcovers, and have never seen a softcover of SoS. I also would've said the last book was as long as the fourth, though its apparently almost as long as the stand. We both lose


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## Naren (May 5, 2007)

Yeah... The last book is a lot lot longer than the fourth.  By about 400 pages. WaG is a little bigger than 2 Gunslingers and tDT is a little shorter than 4 Gunslingers. Fourth = 718. The last: Around 1100 (I think it was like 1079 or something).

I did see a softcover of Song of Susannah when I first bought the Gunslinger (haven't seen it since) and I remember it looking about twice the length of "The Gunslinger" (which I bought that day). And I thought I remembered it looking bigger than the first 3 books, but I guess it was longer than the first 2 and about the same size as the third (and shorter than all the others).

Kinda sucks that my theory is wrong, though.


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## forelander (May 5, 2007)

Trust me, I was as disappointed as you. I had the same theory and was hoping SoS would be about the size of tDT and tDT would be twice its current length. Ridiculous I know but man it woulda been sweet.


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## Naren (May 6, 2007)

I just finished the prologue ("Roont") and was quite surprised. From the 41 page prologue, I've gathered that the basis of this story is the exact same as the 1954 Akira Kurosawa film, "Seven Samurai" (Shichinin no samurai) where a small town of farmers hires 7 samurai to protect them from a group of bandits that come every few years to take their crops and women. I mean, reading the prologue, it's just like The Dark Tower Stephen King version of the first 20-30 minutes of "Shichinin no samurai."

If you don't know the film: Shichinin no samurai (1954) (I also noticed that it has the highest/best IMDB user rating of any film I've ever seen).
It's an amazing film. It was ranked in the top 10 best films of all time by the American Film Institute. And I remember Stephen King saying somewhere that he was heavily influenced by some of Kurosawa's films. I have it on DVD. 

Well, I'm gonna get back to reading the novel. Probably get to somewhere around page 130-180 tonight. Just kinda suprised he completely took the basis for that film. I'm expecting it'll be kickass and filled with a bunch of supernatural elements.


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## noodles (May 7, 2007)

Naren said:


> I just finished the prologue ("Roont") and was quite surprised. From the 41 page prologue, I've gathered that the basis of this story is the exact same as the 1954 Akira Kurosawa film, "Seven Samurai" (Shichinin no samurai) where a small town of farmers hires 7 samurai to protect them from a group of bandits that come every few years to take their crops and women. I mean, reading the prologue, it's just like The Dark Tower Stephen King version of the first 20-30 minutes of "Shichinin no samurai."



That is where the similarities end, though. Politically, it is far more complicated. You'll see what I mean.


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## Naren (May 7, 2007)

noodles said:


> That is where the similarities end, though. Politically, it is far more complicated. You'll see what I mean.



I've gotten 300 pages into it so far. And, as you said, it's like he made the prologue to be a complete copy of "Seven Samurai" but in his Dark Tower universe. But, after the prologue, it becomes just like every other Dark Tower novel (that's a good thing) and has very minimal comparisons to "Seven Samurai" (although the very fundamental basis is still there).

Pretty damn interesting so far. A little slower than the previous novels, but still interesting.


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## Chris (May 7, 2007)

The end of WoC is so fucking badass. You're going to love it dude.

'Tis just a bit of the rheumatis..


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## Naren (May 7, 2007)

Chris said:


> The end of WoC is so fucking badass. You're going to love it dude.
> 
> 'Tis just a bit of the rheumatis..



I'm imagining it's gonna be pretty badass. 


Spoiler



In these first 300 pages, he's set it up so I can look forward to that final battle with the wolves. I'm expecting some Roland-style kickass fighting (despite the fact that it seems he has arthritis and is missing 3 fingers...)


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## noodles (May 7, 2007)

Chris said:


> 'Tis just a bit of the rheumatis..





Spoiler



I never fucking expected that one to end with Jake dying.


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## forelander (May 8, 2007)

Naren the above quote and mine are both HEAVY 7th book spoilers. We should have different colour spoiler text for each book or something. I'd hate someone to think they were reading a book 4 or 5 spoiler and get significant events of book 7 ruined.



Spoiler



I don't think anyone expected that. I know I sure as hell didn't. Ka-shume 



In a note somewhere in one book or another king says he was indeed inspired by the film you mentioned, Naren. I've not seen it though so I'll take your word for its similiarities.


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## Chris (May 8, 2007)

I'm not going to add a rainbow of spoiler tags dude.  

Rule of thumb: If you haven't finished the series, don't highlight.


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## Naren (May 10, 2007)

Already 650 pages into it. I'll be done in no time. I'd say it's pretty damn interesting, but that all of the previous novels in the Dark Tower have been more interesting (so far, every book in the series has been a page-turner). I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.



Spoiler



I'm kinda worried about that Mia character, though...  And what she's carrying...


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## noodles (May 10, 2007)

I added some spoiler tags, Naren, because that might have been a bit much.

You're gonna love the ending.


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## Naren (May 10, 2007)

I'm expecting to love the ending. This book pretty much is all about setting up the ending in so many different ways.

I tried to write that one in a way that people who haven't read that far wouldn't know what I'm talking about.


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## noodles (May 10, 2007)

Naren said:


> I tried to write that one in a way that people who haven't read that far wouldn't know what I'm talking about.



Just trying to err on the side of caution. The series is so long and complicated that I don't want to tip anyone off to anything ahead of time. 



Spoiler



You get the hint that Suzanna is pregnant in book 3, and knowing her proclivity towards multiple personalities, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for someone to figure out there is a new personality before they should.


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## Naren (May 11, 2007)

Just finished "Wolves of The Calla." 935 pages in 5 days. Not bad at all. 



Spoiler



My favorite parts were when Eddie busts into the bookstore back room with the gun and just completely beats the crap out of Balazar's men, when he kills/destroys Andy, and when Roland pretty much owns everyone.



I went to the Kinokuniya in Shinjuku (bookstore with 8 floors that I've been buying all my Dark Tower books from) and they still didn't have "Song of Susannah" so I decided to take matters into my own hands. I didn't want to wait 3 weeks for the book to come in, so I went to the Junkudou bookstore in Ikebukuro that I hadn't been to in about 6 years. It's 10 floors with each floor bigger than the Kinokuniya in Shinjuku. It might be the biggest bookstore in Tokyo. Half of the 10th floor was foreign books (non-Japanese). They had every single Dark Tower book and all books related (Insomnia, Eyes of the Dragon, Black House, etc.). I bought both "Song of Susannah" and "The Dark Tower."

I'll either start reading "Song of Susannah" tonight or tomorrow. 



noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You get the hint that Suzanna is pregnant in book 3, and knowing her proclivity towards multiple personalities, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for someone to figure out there is a new personality before they should.





Spoiler



I suspected that she'd get pregnant from when she first had sex with the demon. I was pretty sure she was pregnant somewhere in book 3. I didn't think of there being a new personality until book 5 when it actually happened, though.


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## noodles (May 11, 2007)

Naren said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite parts were when Eddie busts into the bookstore back room with the gun and just completely beats the crap out of Balazar's men, when he kills/destroys Andy, and when Roland pretty much owns everyone.





Spoiler



Eddie owning those guys ruled so fucking much. To me, it represented the first time Eddie stepped up to the plate on his own, and acted with utter fearlessness and cold ruthlessness. Roland would have been proud.





> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I suspected that she'd get pregnant from when she first had sex with the demon. I was pretty sure she was pregnant somewhere in book 3. I didn't think of there being a new personality until book 5 when it actually happened, though.





Spoiler



I didn't suspect that she would get pregnant from the demon, but when she did get pregnant, I had a feeling another personality would assert itself. I always thought it would be of her own mind's fabrication, though.


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## Naren (May 11, 2007)

noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Eddie owning those guys ruled so fucking much. To me, it represented the first time Eddie stepped up to the plate on his own, and acted with utter fearlessness and cold ruthlessness. Roland would have been proud.



I was thinking the same thing. Roland would have been proud. It was the first time he acted like that. Almost the complete opposite of how he'd been a few books back.



noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't suspect that she would get pregnant from the demon, but when she did get pregnant, I had a feeling another personality would assert itself. I always thought it would be of her own mind's fabrication, though.



Then we thought the opposite way.


Spoiler



I expected a demon child, but didn't expect another personality. I was a little surprised with the nature of Mia. I expect something that'll happen that will merge all her personalities in one and prevent her from creating more multiple personalities somewhere in SoS. I could be wrong...


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## noodles (May 11, 2007)

Naren said:


> Then we thought the opposite way.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I expected the extra personality to be of her own mind's fabrication, though. I never expected it to be another entity entirely.



BTW: My favorite scene *ever* with Jake is in SoS. See if you can guess what it is. 

For everyone that has read it...



Spoiler



Oy almost gets hit by a taxi cab, and Jake just loses it on the driver.


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## Naren (May 12, 2007)

Since "The Dark Tower" is basically one story spread out across 7 books (just like "The Lord of The Rings" is one story spread across 3-4 books, depending on whether you include "The Hobbit" or not), I wanted to see how long this story was, so I used a calculator to count all the pages for each book.

"The Dark Tower" story is 4,575 pages long. Quite a long story. I've already read 3,000 pages of that. So, I've got roughly 1,500 pages left to go.

This is post 7,777, by the way.


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## The Dark Wolf (May 12, 2007)

^


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## Naren (May 12, 2007)




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## Naren (May 13, 2007)

I've read the first 450 pages of SoS so far and damn, Roland and Eddie are kicking a lot of ass. Eddie has become such an awesome character and Roland doesn't let anything stop him (like always). It's like all the normal characters have a 5-10% accuracy with firing guns while Roland is around 99% accuracy. 

The part where they meet King is really bizarre but really cool at the same time. 

This book is pretty kickass so far and I'm betting it's gonna be kickass to the end. Pretty damn interesting book. 



noodles said:


> BTW: My favorite scene *ever* with Jake is in SoS. See if you can guess what it is.
> 
> For everyone that has read it...
> 
> ...



 That scene was so cool. Guy didn't know he was messing with a gunslinger. 

Naren update: Finished reading Song Of Susannah. Pretty much read the whole book in 2 days. It seemed really short to me, even though it was about 560 pages long. I'll probably start on "The Dark Tower" tonight or tomorrow.


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## noodles (May 14, 2007)

Naren said:


> It's like all the normal characters have a 5-10% accuracy with firing guns while Roland is around 99% accuracy.



I really disagree with that. Remember when Roland tossed dishes into the air, Jake shot them all up, and Suze and Eddie caught all the shards before they hit the ground. I think they're all scarily accurate and wicked fast compared to a normal man, but Roland is just that much more so. I'd say they are at the point Roland was when in Wizard and Glass, as a 16yo boy. 5-10%, shit, I'm better than that.


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## noodles (May 14, 2007)

Naren said:


> That scene was so cool. Guy didn't know he was messing with a gunslinger.





Spoiler



I was totally lunching out when he was punching the hood of the car, and then just whipped out the gun and shoved it in the driver's face. "Yeah, kid, ventilate that camel jockey!" That statement was so wrong, but I laughed my ass off just the same. It was so perfectly New York. That whole scene was a reminder that Jake is no longer a boy, really. He may be really young, but he is more like Roland than any of the others. That fire, resolve, and brutality is all there.


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## Naren (May 14, 2007)

noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I was totally lunching out when he was punching the hood of the car, and then just whipped out the gun and shoved it in the driver's face. "Yeah, kid, ventilate that camel jockey!" That statement was so wrong, but I laughed my ass off just the same. It was so perfectly New York. That whole scene was a reminder that Jake is no longer a boy, really. He may be really young, but he is more like Roland than any of the others. That fire, resolve, and brutality is all there.






Spoiler



It's like, there's this kid yelling and pounding on a car. The guy comes out, thinking, "stupid kid. Get off my car" only to have a gun thrown in his face. It was also pretty sweet how Father Callahan hit the guy in the head when he tried to take the gun from Jake. 

You know Jake is no longer a kid at the point. And there are so many times where Eddie has to restrain himself from killing someone. I like the quote in "The Dark Tower" where he says that he probably could never live in civilization again



So, I'm up to page 170 in "The Dark Tower" right now. So far, pretty cool. 



noodles said:


> I really disagree with that. Remember when Roland tossed dishes into the air, Jake shot them all up, and Suze and Eddie caught all the shards before they hit the ground. I think they're all scarily accurate and wicked fast compared to a normal man, but Roland is just that much more so. I'd say they are at the point Roland was when in Wizard and Glass, as a 16yo boy. 5-10%, shit, I'm better than that.



N-n-nah. When I said "normal characters," I didn't mean Eddie, Jake, and Susannah. I meant like: the low men, Balazar's thugs, regular townsfolk who get their hands on a gun, etc. You see? I _completely_ agree with everything you're saying 100%.

Maybe I should have said "normal men" or "normal people" instead of "normal characters." I never thought of the katet as "normal" anything.  In other words, I meant "people in the story who aren't gunslingers."


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## noodles (May 14, 2007)

Naren said:


> N-n-nah. When I said "normal characters," I didn't mean Eddie, Jake, and Susannah. I meant like: the low men, Balazar's thugs, regular townsfolk who get their hands on a gun, etc. You see? I _completely_ agree with everything you're saying 100%.
> 
> Maybe I should have said "normal men" or "normal people" instead of "normal characters." I never thought of the katet as "normal" anything.  In other words, I meant "people in the story who aren't gunslingers."



Ah, I got you. I always thought that gunslingers were the equivalent of a human superhero out of comic books, like a Batman or Punisher. Amazing reflexes and keen senses.


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## Naren (May 14, 2007)

noodles said:


> Ah, I got you. I always thought that gunslingers were the equivalent of a human superhero out of comic books, like a Batman or Punisher. Amazing reflexes and keen senses.



You say true; I say thankya. 

And Roland is like king of gunslingers. It's like, he goes into a place and shoots 20 guys dead in 30 seconds. That scene in Tull in "The Gunslinger" just solidified the superhuman qualities to the man. The part-cowboy, part-knight "gunslinger" thingy.



Spoiler



Of course, he just keeps getting fucked up worse and worse. First he gets 3 of his fingers bitten/cut off (and a toe). Then he gets arthritis. And now in the final novel, they're already hinting that he's got ANOTHER physical problem coming on.

I did find it kind of ironic, though, that when he first gets arthritis in WotC, he acts like he's not gonna be even able to move, but he still manages to kick ass like nobody's business (although he suffers from the pain).

My theory is that, with the exception of Roland, all the characters will die including Jake, Susannah, Eddie, Oy, and Mordred. I have no idea what will happen to the Crimson King, but I have a weird feeling that he'll just be generally ignored. Anyway... If I'm right, don't tell me!! I want to find out for myself when I get there. But that's my theory from seeing how the series has been going so far.


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## forelander (May 14, 2007)

Spoiler



Roland's only missing two fingers, and a big toe. Glad you're enjoying the series! Everyone is so hardcore by the end of it, I like how Roland tells Eddie "If I could manage not to kill you, then you can manage not to kill this man." Also, Roland IS the king of gunslingers as was my understanding. He's certainly king of the ones remaining. Book 7 is generally badass and awesome, so much cool stuff happens.


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## Naren (May 14, 2007)

forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Roland's only missing two fingers, and a big toe. Glad you're enjoying the series! Everyone is so hardcore by the end of it, I like how Roland tells Eddie "If I could manage not to kill you, then you can manage not to kill this man." Also, Roland IS the king of gunslingers as was my understanding. He's certainly king of the ones remaining. Book 7 is generally badass and awesome, so much cool stuff happens.





Spoiler



But there are so many times where it says "the remaining two fingers of his right hand" which would mean he's missing 3 fingers (because 5 - 2 = 3). I don't remember exactly which fingers he's missing, but I remember he still has his thumb (and pinky?). 

I loved that line too. Roland all bashing on Eddie.


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## noodles (May 14, 2007)

Naren said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



He lost his index and middle fingers. The thumb doesn't count as a finger, so he has two remaining.

Man, that was one of the classic Roland lines. I love that they were talking about one of their allies.


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## Naren (May 14, 2007)

noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Ah ha! So, that's why it always said "his remaining two fingers." I've always considered the thumb as a finger. I knew he was missing his middle finger, but I couldn't remember if he was missing his ring or index. I had this shifting image of which fingers he was missing in my mind.

Well, you know how Jake and Eddie always wonder whether Roland would kill them to get closer to the tower. Jake calls Roland "Father" and is snuggling up to him, while thinking, "I wonder if he'll betray me again." And Eddie was thinking that Roland might kill him after Roland shot the slow mutant in the head after getting him to tell everything he knew. 

You don't want to get on Roland's bad side.



I've read up to page 520 so far and that part with the Breakers was pretty cool. I wasn't really surprised by what happened, but it's still sad. 

That Mordred character is damn annoying...

I bet I'll have the book finished by next week.


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## forelander (May 15, 2007)

Spoiler



The part where Jake calls Roland father was one of my favourite parts of the series. I'd actually forgotten Eddie died the second time I read the 7th book. Also the part under the dixie pig with Roland and Eddie owning ass in front of the door was awesome.


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## Naren (May 15, 2007)

forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The part where Jake calls Roland father was one of my favourite parts of the series. I'd actually forgotten Eddie died the second time I read the 7th book. Also the part under the dixie pig with Roland and Eddie owning ass in front of the door was awesome.





Spoiler



I expected one of them to die in that Blue Heaven place, but I seriously didn't expect Eddie to die. I thought he would be the very last of them to die, but he was the first. Who's next? Jake or Susannah? or Oy?  And how?

Yeah, that part was sweet. The guys just turn around and Eddie and Roland are there with their guns out, pointed at their heads. Bam bam. That was pretty sweet.

I'm about halfway through the last novel now. I guess I'll keep going. See what happens next.


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## noodles (May 16, 2007)

Spoiler



Eddie's death was a huge blow. He was absolutely my favorite character, the one I am most similar to and identify the most with. It was completely out of left field, too. I totally expected Suze to get it instead, which would have left Eddie a cold, bitter, vengeful shell of his former self.


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## Naren (May 16, 2007)

noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Eddie's death was a huge blow. He was absolutely my favorite character, the one I am most similar to and identify the most with. It was completely out of left field, too. I totally expected Suze to get it instead, which would have left Eddie a cold, bitter, vengeful shell of his former self.





Spoiler



Same here. Eddie was my favorite character (probably tied with Roland) and I seriously expected him to die last. The way he died just kinda hit me. 

I read up to page 715 today. Jake's death was sad, but I expected him to die before Susannah and it seemed about the right time for him to die.

Right now Roland Susie just got out from under the castle allure. That monster from todash space was pretty freaky.


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## noodles (May 16, 2007)

Naren said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Yeah, his death seemed so haphazard. He died after the battle was done, really. Jakes was completely expected, and while sad, I always knew he was living on borrowed time. I always felt like he really died when he got hit by the car.

The next part of the book is great. The trip across the wastes reminds me a lot of Roland's trip across the desert.


----------



## forelander (May 16, 2007)

Spoiler



Eddie's death I expected more than Jake's. I didn't really think Jake would die, I figured he'd make it to the end with Roland, and if he did die, I didn't expect it to happen like that, I figured it'd be in some massive penultimate battle. Saddest scene in the series though.


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## Naren (May 16, 2007)

noodles said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Yeah. I thought that no matter where Jake died, he'd already lived way past the time he "should" have died (same with Pere Callahan). He died in the car crash in 1977 and, through that, somehow got to Mid-World. Then, Roland kind of killed him again. His days were numbered from then on, but Jake was the most prepared for it. 

And poor Oy won't even talk anymore. I thought it was funny when King would show the world from Oy's perspective. "The man Olan was standing there. Now that Ake was gone..."  

I'll probably get another 100-200 pages done today and finish the novel either tomorrow or on Saturday.





forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Eddie's death I expected more than Jake's. I didn't really think Jake would die, I figured he'd make it to the end with Roland, and if he did die, I didn't expect it to happen like that, I figured it'd be in some massive penultimate battle. Saddest scene in the series though.





Spoiler



Guess we saw it differently then. I expected the characters to die in this order: Jake with Oy, then Susannah, then last Eddie. But, it was: Eddie, Jake, ?, ?. I'm not sure whether Oy or Susannah will die first, but I have a feeling Susannah will die, then Oy will just keep following Roland alone until somehow Oy gets killed and Roland is left alone again. I've never expected ANY of them to make it all the way to the tower with Roland.


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## Naren (May 18, 2007)

I just finished reading The Dark Tower. I thought the ending was really good, but I wish he would have ended it at the Epilogue and left out the Coda, but I completely understand why he did. Readers would be like "Hey, you aren't gonna show us what's inside the Dark Tower!?" I think that would have been best, though. It ended so smoothly with the last chapter and then the epilogue. Well, other than the end of the Coda being a little disconcerting, I thought the entire book (and series) was very good. 



Spoiler



I was surprised that Susannah didn't die. I was almost sure she would.


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## forelander (May 18, 2007)

Spoiler



I liked Susannah's ending. Also, Oy's last word "Olan." was awesome. The ending was cool but then I was wondering "So he's got the horn now...what's gonna be different." 

I figure one day he'll leave through the door with Susannah, or maybe through a different one. I think the horn hints that eventually he'll change enough to cry off after he saves the beams, thus saving himself from damnation. I still would like to know about that ending as well, but I figure it was one or the other and people woulda ate king alive if the tower wasn't even in the series.


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## Naren (May 18, 2007)

forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Yeah, I really liked Susannah's ending and I thought it was cool how Oy said "Olan" before he died.

I thought the ending meant that, when King had said that Roland had been doing this quest for thousands of years, a lot of that time was with him redoing everything over again. I thought, "So, he's back at the beginning? Does that mean he's as young as he was at that part in the story? Does that mean he has his fingers back? And his other gun back?" etc. etc. 

While it had said that the key worlds (both the "real world" and Roland's) only could move forward in time, it seemed that the Tower could send you back in time. It reminded me of those movies and tv shows where a character lives the same day over and over again (like in X-Files or whatever), forgetting the contents of each day when the day starts over, but somehow through instinct, they manage to do things differently and maybe even remember little bits of the story. I thought that maybe this time Roland wouldn't let Jake fall in the mountains. Maybe he could prevent Eddie from dying. Maybe he would choose to do certain things differently. Even him just having the horn could be enough to make him change a lot of certain choices. Maybe the horn would remind him of how his old companions died and that doesn't allow him to let Jake fall.

Just some thoughts.


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## forelander (May 18, 2007)

Spoiler



Ka is a wheel. I assume Roland's khef was sent to a certain level on the tower when he was sent back. I think Gan (the tower) is trying to teach Roland a lesson he's very slowly learning. I again think his salvation is in his own hands; had Susannah travelled with Roland I have no doubt she would have found herself trapped in Detta's mind. The ending didn't really bother me at all, I actually think it's cool. I just wonder about the other journeys, eg, would Roland save Jake after all? Or, on the first time through, would Roland have simply shot Jake at the way station? You should check out the comics, soon the 7th one will be out and the first section will be available as a large collection. Lots of background on Roland's world is given, and everything is approved by King, and I haven't be able to find any contradictions. Pretty interesting if you like Roland's world.


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## Naren (May 18, 2007)

Makes perfect sense.


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## noodles (May 18, 2007)

Spoiler



Personally, I loved the ending. It made complete logical sense to me when I read it. Roland was given enough hints, from both friends and foes, to cry of the tower. Notice that no one ever told him not to try and save the beams. There were those that opposed him, but they never said anything about them beams. It was alway the tower. Walter even told him it would be his undoing, and he was right.

Eddie and Jake had to die. I think it will always happen in the do-over. Eddie dies protecting the beams, and Jake dies protecting King. These were not Roland's fault, as people have died around him all his life. Notice that the tower doesn't send him back to Mejas to save Susan. It doesn't send him back to Gilliad to save Cuthbert and Alain. It send him back to the desert, the part that matters.

I think he isn't supposed to let Jake fall. The tower has power over time, so the beams salvation is already guaranteed. Roland will always save the beams. I think that he hasn't learned enough about being a human yet, and that is why he needs to be sent back. Save Jake, because catching Walter doesn't matter. With Jake at his side, he would never lose his fingers. Eddie would be less resistant with his surrogate kid brother around. It is just one person to stand guard against Suzanna. Who knows? Maybe everything will get better, maybe Eddie and Jake won't have to die. Maybe when we see them in the last book, standing together for the last time in victory, the next step is retirement. Happily ever after and all that.

I love the ambiguousness of it. You're left to wonder what happens in the end.


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## Naren (May 18, 2007)

That's kind of how I interpreted the ending. I didn't "love" it. I was kind of "hmmm" about it. I didn't go "WHAT THE FUCK!?" like I've heard a lot of tDT fans have. I was more like "Well... that makes sense... hmmm..."



Spoiler



I agree that if Jake hadn't died, Roland probably wouldn't have lost his fingers. And, when Roland went to draw Eddie, Eddie probably wouldn't have been so resistant to Roland if Jake was around. He probably couldn't have pulled the knife on them. And, with the 3 of them, they could have dealt with Detta easier than with just the 2 of them. And Roland wouldn't have been sick, which would solve another problem. There's a lot that could change from just small changes.


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## noodles (May 18, 2007)

^ 



Spoiler



I loved the ending. When I read it, I was like, "Roland got fucked?!? That's awesome! Ka really is a wheel!"


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## forelander (May 18, 2007)

Spoiler



Didn't he have to sacrifice Jake in order to draw the three? Walter lies about everything though, so maybe not. But if Jake didn't die, how would Roland have gotten through the mountains? Also, if Jake didn't die, they would never have found the rose. I think Jake had to die personally, though Roland might have tried to save him rather than letting him fall.


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## Naren (May 19, 2007)

forelander said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't he have to sacrifice Jake in order to draw the three? Walter lies about everything though, so maybe not. But if Jake didn't die, how would Roland have gotten through the mountains? Also, if Jake didn't die, they would never have found the rose. I think Jake had to die personally, though Roland might have tried to save him rather than letting him fall.





Spoiler



Walter seemed to have lied about everything. Roland was at the top of the "thingy" on the way to get out of the mountains. He could have grabbed Jake and made it out of there. It would have been dangerous and risky, but not so much as a lot of stuff they do later on in the story. Sure, Jake probably wouldn't have found the rose, but they might have found out about it through some completely different means. And, I think regardless of whether Roland sacrificed Jake, the doors would have been on the beach. He might not have had Walter's explanation about them, but so what? Walter was trying to mislead Roland most of the time, anyway.


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## distressed_romeo (May 22, 2007)

Well...I finally brought volume 1 today (amongst a stack of other books)! Hopefully I'll know what you guys are talking about before too long...


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## Naren (May 22, 2007)

It might take a while since there are 7 books.  You'll have a pretty general idea after the first 2 books.


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