# Mayones or Carvin/Kiesel



## DanRTN (Mar 15, 2016)

Ello Ello,

As the title says I am wondering which are 'generally' better.
I am coming into a bit of money soon (around £2k/£2.5k) and am looking into getting a high end 7 string. I am from the UK so can go down to Guitarguitar to play a Mayo but no one I know owns a Carvin/Kiesel.

Mayo's seem to be a little more pricey than the Carvin is the price difference warranted and if so why? 

I don't want this to be a battle of the fanboys, I just want some owner experience with either make and models.

Cheers in advance!
Dan


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## narad (Mar 15, 2016)

Mayones > Kiesel.


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## Lemons (Mar 15, 2016)

There's a live thread right now that might make you think twice about Kiesel, maybe have a quick look.


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## Fred the Shred (Mar 15, 2016)

Even if said thread wasn't around, and do mind I don't gel all too well with most Mayos, comparing a current Mayones with a Kiesel is like comparing Real Madrid to a 2nd league football team in terms of the actual quality, in my experience. Is a proper Kiesel a bad guitar? Not in the slightest. Is it possible to attempt to make that investment in attention to detail and craftsmanship at the speed they are attempting to put out a huge quantity of guitars? Not at all.

Also, bare in mind that we're in the EU, which will approximate the Kiesel's price to that of a Mayo, which makes it even less competitive due to the import taxes.


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## Chokey Chicken (Mar 15, 2016)

In Europe, Mayones is the better bet. In the US, Kiesel is the better bet. Shipping overseas always adds an unnecessary amount of money to things. Which is why I'll likely never own a Mayo. Unless I strike it rich, $3-6k just isn't an attractive price to my broke self.


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## Taikatatti (Mar 15, 2016)

Mayones for sure, but i would check out skervesen before pulling the trigger. You get a lot more guitar for less compared to mayones.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Mar 15, 2016)

After VAT and shipping, base-as-Jack Kiesel runs for $1500. Base-as-Jan Mayones runs for 1500 euro. 

I think the price difference isn't enough to bother dealing with a company outside the EU. What if you have an issue?


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## Aymara (Mar 15, 2016)

Taikatatti said:


> You get a lot more guitar for less compared to mayones.



And how long is the waiting list? Skervesen is custom shop only, right?

Mayo can be bought in a shop with a bit of luck ... they currently have problems keeping up with the demand.

I myself desided for a Regius 7 after trying it out in a local shop.


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## narad (Mar 15, 2016)

Aymara said:


> Mayo can be bought in a shop with a bit of luck ... they currently have problems keeping up with the demand.



The dozen+ sitting around on ebay suggests otherwise, but they are great guitars nonetheless.


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## Aymara (Mar 15, 2016)

narad said:


> The dozen+ sitting around on ebay suggests otherwise, ...



That depends on the country ... most of these offers are from the US, right?


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 15, 2016)

Mayones by such a long shot that there's no consideration necessary.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Mar 15, 2016)

DanRTN said:


> Ello Ello,
> 
> As the title says I am wondering which are 'generally' better.
> I am coming into a bit of money soon (around £2k/£2.5k) and am looking into getting a high end 7 string. I am from the UK so can go down to Guitarguitar to play a Mayo but no one I know owns a Carvin/Kiesel.
> ...



If you don't know in your heart of hearts that you want a guitar, then I'd strongly recommend that you play one before you buy one.

Also being n the UK, I'd not be looking at either of those brands myself, but some folks are dead set on what one or both of them offer.


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## Aymara (Mar 15, 2016)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Also being n the UK, I'd not be looking at either of those brands myself, ...



He said, that he could test a Mayo in a local shop. So why shouldn't he buy it, in case he likes it? Sorry, but I can't understand that, though I for sure wouldn't buy a guitar in Europe from a company, that has no European distributor ... Kiesel in this case.


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## mnemonic (Mar 15, 2016)

Carvin makes great guitars, but unless you're ordering a barebones model, Mayones might be cheaper, once you add international shipping, VAT and Import Duty to the price. I bought a Setius a couple years back and it came out cheaper than a pretty plainly spec'd DC700 after the cost of getting it to my door. 

Its been years since I last played a Carvin, I used to make it to the Sacramento shop every once in a while back before it closed when I lived in California. Great guitars.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Mar 15, 2016)

Aymara said:


> He said, that he could test a Mayo in a local shop. So why shouldn't he buy it, in case he likes it? Sorry, but I can't understand that, though I for sure wouldn't buy a guitar in Europe from a company, that has no European distributor ... Kiesel in this case.



Sorry I guess I didn't explain myself there properly, I meant that in the UK an Mayones is more expensive than some other brands that I'd prefer in that genre of guitar. Going against my own advice above of not buying what you haven't played - although I have played them so I can say this  you could get a custom from someone like Jaden Rose or Stormshadow for the price of a Mayones. But you don't get big name resale or the brand of the week kudos...


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## mnemonic (Mar 15, 2016)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Sorry I guess I didn't explain myself there properly, I meant that in the UK an Mayones is more expensive than some other brands that I'd prefer in that genre of guitar. Going against my own advice above of not buying what you haven't played - although I have played them so I can say this  you could get a custom from someone like Jaden Rose or Stormshadow for the price of a Mayones. But you don't get big name resale or the brand of the week kudos...



You also don't get the strength of a larger company with multiple builders. 

I'm not against small one-man-band luthiers and the like, but there is more risk there, should something happen to the guy building the guitar. If a builder at mayones gets hit by a bus tomorrow, or breaks his hand, or falls deathly ill, the other builders pick up the slack, rather than everything grinding to a halt and potentially the business going under.

I've seen enough people on this forum get burned, dealing with small builders to consider it myself. 



Lemons said:


> There's a live thread right now that might make you think twice about Kiesel, maybe have a quick look.



I had just read the first of three pages on that thread, and it got deleted. So much for dissenting opinions and free thought on sevenstring.org


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## _MonSTeR_ (Mar 15, 2016)

Oh absolutely, the small builder issue is an issue. I've dealt with those guys myself and have developed enough of a relationship with them that I'd take that risk. There are many, many other builders that I wouldn't. That's my own experience and I can't attest for other folks experience. I also don't 'get' mayones, I find them 'fine' in a 5 out of 10, don't d anything for me kind of way. I've never owned one, but Ive not found one I'd want to own either yet. Ymmv etc etc


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## Insomnia (Mar 15, 2016)

You're kidding, right? Mayones are extremely good, Kiesel seem to be hit-and-miss.


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 15, 2016)

The quality difference alone is remarkable. You might get an exceptionally amazing Carvin that is better than an exceptionally poor Mayones, but it will just be an exception. Carvin are popular, and not bad, but not in the same league as Mayones.


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## SnowfaLL (Mar 15, 2016)

I found the Mayones to be a good guitar, but its not "in another league" from a top notch quality Carvin. I'd put my ST300 against any Mayones and I'm 100% positive I'd leave with my ST300 everytime. People are just hating on Carvin/Kiesel lately cause its the cool thing to do. I think I agree with the guy who said it really depends on what side of the pond you are on; I'd get a Mayones if I was in Europe, but in NA the price would be almost double what a similar spec Kiesel will be. 

Better to go off of what you find looks better and what is affordable to you, thats the main difference.


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 15, 2016)

I don't hate or dislike Carvin at all. I've always liked them since I was a kid. But, I've owned maybe 30 of them and around 15 Mayos, and the latter is of a different tier. Granted, I've played two Mayos that were just outright lemons, and so it is possible that I've been lucky with the others.. either way, the attention to detail between the two isn't comparable. In both cases, you're getting a good guitar, it just comes down to budget.


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## mikolo (Mar 15, 2016)

Mayones all day. After owning a fairly high end second hand DC-7X and seeing all the production flaws - Neck twist/Nut cut terribly.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 15, 2016)

The best thing you can do is go down to guitarguitar and try out a bunch of Mayones to decide yourself first and if you don't like them or something about it then look at other options. Trying a guitar near you will only cost you a bit of time and travel money rather than gambling all your money on a brand you've never tried.


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## Aymara (Mar 15, 2016)

Exactly, the thread starter said, he has the chance to test a Mayo in a shop, so I highly recommend, that he does exactly that.

After that, it might be interesting to report back here, which models he could test and what his impressions were ... in case he will be able to resist the developing GAS while testing


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## IChuckFinleyI (Mar 15, 2016)

Taikatatti said:


> Mayones for sure, but i would check out skervesen before pulling the trigger. You get a lot more guitar for less compared to mayones.



I second Skervesen. IMO, Mayones are way overpriced. If you just buy a stock model, it's not bad. Once you enter the custom realm, the price just sky rockets like crazy.


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## narad (Mar 15, 2016)

Yea, if you want a burl eye poplar top with a blue-to-red burst, gold hardware, and a blackmachine-style headstock, I'd definitely recommend Skervesen as those options will really add up on a Mayones.


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## espdna (Mar 16, 2016)

mayones are the ...., don't bother looking into kiesel.


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## Hendog (Mar 17, 2016)

Crazy you can get a Mayones for the same price as a Carvin in Europe.

I have owned numerous Carvins and they are decent guitars (especially for those looking for a personal custom). But the Mayones I played was a far better instrument.

Here in the US a Mayones is double (or more) the price of a Carvin.


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## Aymara (Mar 17, 2016)

Hendog said:


> Crazy you can get a Mayones for the same price as a Carvin in Europe.



The cheapest Maynoes I saw, was in my local shop ... a 6-string Setius for around 1500


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## Petar Bogdanov (Mar 17, 2016)

Aymara said:


> The cheapest Maynoes I saw, was in my local shop ... a 6-string Setius for around 1500



Try speccing a Kiesel and keeping it under 1500 euro with shipping and VAT...


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## Aymara (Mar 17, 2016)

Petar Bogdanov said:


> Try speccing a Kiesel and keeping it under 1500 euro with shipping and VAT...



Good point, but this Setius was exceptionally nice priced. Usually they are in the 1600-1800 range.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 17, 2016)

Gotta echo everyone else here and go with Mayones.
Outside of the US you lose a lot of the benefit you get with Carvin / Kiesel. 

Would also agree with the guys urging you to check out Skervesen.


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## laxu (Mar 18, 2016)

There's a lot more factors than just brand quality. Personally I can't stand Mayones headstocks and don't know what their build times are. 

I ordered a Kiesel AM7 becausae I could get one in roughly 3 months and if I don't like it I can return it. Then I'm just out of shipping costs instead of having to try to sell a brand new guitar most likely at a loss. I got some fancier looking quilted and flamed maple on mine so I expect the final price with shipping, VAT and customs taxes will be around 2500 euros.

I probably would've gone Skervesen if it weren't for the long build times of 8 months up to a year, which is quite common for custom builders. Their pricing is pretty good and I really dig their models and finishes though. Will have to see if the Kiesel is to my liking, if not I'll probably see if a Skervesen comes up for sale. Would love to have a Lizard.

I currently own a Carvin C66 I bought from a member here and it's pretty killer (though it was modded with nicer Floyd parts and Suhr pickups).


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## Rawkmann (Mar 19, 2016)

I had some pretty bad QC issues with Carvin/Kiesel last year and the sales rep I dealt with was less than helpful so yeah, just go with Mayones.


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## DanRTN (Apr 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the opinions guys! And sorry for such a delay in responding! 

There will be no build time on the Mayo as it will be brought from a shop, so that isn't a factor, I don't want to wait really haha, too much GAS right now so although a Skervesen would be nice, it's not for me at this time. Carvins build time would be fine, but I don't want no 7 month wait and I don't really wanna pay $$$ just for shipping. 

Price of the actual guitar doesn't bother me really as I will be deciding if I think Mayo's are over priced or not, I'm sure some people think they are and some people think they aren't. 

guitarguitar have Setius ($1500 - $1999), Duvell ($2049 - $2699) and Regius ($2199) in stock, all around the same price bracket give or take a few hundred so once I finally have my redundacy money I'll be going down to try all 3.

Will post back my feel and experience with all 3 and obivously whack some pretty pics up for us all to drool over! Sorry for the $, my Mac has no pound sign.


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## Jonathan20022 (Apr 8, 2016)

Mayo's price range has put them into a whole other quadrant for what you're getting. A lot of people would say paying 4k starting on a Regius is not worth it, however I love and bond with all of mine. 

Quality wise Mayones is better, and that's the bottom line. I have an incoming Kiesel K7 70th Anniversary so I get to see what something Jeff has his hands on feels like. But that doesn't mean in any way that a Kiesel isn't good.

If you're going to pay 2k before VAT and Shipping on a Kiesel, it'll still be a stellar guitar. Mayones however feels better to me, and I own 7 Mayones right now and have owned 9 Carvins/Kiesels over the years with 2 more on the way. 

You will get a fine guitar whichever way you go, and that's my experience as an owner of both brands


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