# Blackmachine B2 Available



## xeL (Dec 7, 2011)

Theres a BM B2 available on the site If anyone wants to jump on It.



> Vintage Mahogany, Blackline Spalt Top, Honduras Mahogany neck with Zebrano fingerboard, Nailbombs & Custom Schaller hardware


 
blackmachine - Home Page

Good Luck


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## Poho (Dec 7, 2011)

Emailed him about this a couple of hours ago. Here's hoping!


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## engage757 (Dec 7, 2011)

$8k for an RG with a fucked up Parker headstock? Geez... I would love to put one through it's paces, but $8 grand for what it is seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?


edit: Apparently this post pissed someone else off that has never played one


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## leonardo7 (Dec 7, 2011)

Ive emailed him twice in the past 10 months, once ten months ago and once 2 weeks ago, specifically requesting that he be so kind as to notify me if any builds become available and I will most likely buy from him for his asking price and not only do I get no response to my kind inquiries but my request gets ignored and builds get put up for sale without any notification.


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## stevemcqueen (Dec 7, 2011)

Is someone on this thread really talking down about Blackmachine?


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## thedarkoceans (Dec 7, 2011)

engage757 said:


> $8k for an RG with a fucked up Parker headstock? Geez... I would love to put one through it's paces, but $8 grand for what it is seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?



no man,$8k for an RG THAT DJENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  

edit: i know stealth was kidding about the 8k thingy,but this post was too funny.


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## JPMike (Dec 7, 2011)

This is insane!!!!

I would love to have one, but 8k? Come on, let me get a Benedetto instead.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey guys, Stealth was just trolling, like usual, so drop the whole $8k thing. I don't think Stealth has even seen $8k in his entire life.


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## JPMike (Dec 7, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hey guys, Stealth was just trolling, like usual, so drop the whole $8k thing. I don't think Stealth has even seen $8k in his entire life.



In any case, whoever has the money gets the guitar, though who's gonna get it first?


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## leonardo7 (Dec 7, 2011)

Just emailed again and just received a response which Im happy about. 

Lets just say that if you cant afford that trolling price then you probably wont be able to afford the actual price which is around 30% lower. His pics should be up in a few days


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hey guys, Stealth was just trolling, like usual, so drop the whole $8k thing. I don't think Stealth has even seen $8k in his entire life.


 
Thanks for deleting my terrible posts. I'm sorry I troll so much. I guess it's related to my shortcomings as a man.


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## fps (Dec 7, 2011)

$8,000 for a guitar? What the hell is the point.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Max is the best!


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## Jzbass25 (Dec 7, 2011)

I do want a blackmachine but I sort of agree, 8k is well past my limits for a guitar. Is the price mainly because the wood is "vintage"?


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## Viginez (Dec 7, 2011)

its unique ;-)


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2011)

leonardo7 said:


> Just emailed again and just received a response which Im happy about.
> 
> Lets just say that if you cant afford that trolling price then you probably wont be able to afford the actual price which is around 30% lower. His pics should be up in a few days



I am going to start a Leonardo Hate Thread 

So...Jackson, ESP, Mayones, BRJ, now blackmachine? How many guitars do you own, how do you get them and how do you afford them!!!


Seriously dude congrats that is awesome


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Im glad someone from sso bought it. First dibs = us.


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## leonardo7 (Dec 7, 2011)

GUYS, I DID NOT BUY IT YET! Its still up for grabs. Im gonna hold out for a 7.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Also everyone thinking its 8k. Its NOT 8k. I made a joke about offering 8k and then a certain smeaky max deleted the posts hence the confusion. So offer away. I think around 4-6k is a fair guesstimate?


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 7, 2011)

Still - $5600 or so for a guitar? I guess it they're selling, whatever, but count me out.


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## sakeido (Dec 7, 2011)

I'll wait for pics and then think deeply on if I really want it 

even though I'm not drinkin that blackmachine kool-aid anymore I want a new guitar.. my Suhr custom ain't doing it for me anymore. the thing is like hanging a boat anchor off my shoulders. and Doug even though he is a godawful businessman does get some nice bits of wood in every so often


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Still - $5600 or so for a guitar? I guess it they're selling, whatever, but count me out.



Still much much cheaper than a nice semi hollow or acoustic though. Supposedly Doug scraps anythin he isnt happy with so if he isnt happy with multiple guitars then I can see him charging more for something he settles on.

I think its pretty nice seeing a luthier charge more than minimum wage.


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## ghost2II2 (Dec 7, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Still - $5600 or so for a guitar? I guess it they're selling, whatever, but count me out.



My thoughts exactly. Much better can be acquired for much less. 

I'm not ripping on Blackmachines. They are beautiful guitars. But they are seriously fucking overrated. Let's put it this way, if they were balls, a good many of you fuckers would have a mouth full of pubes.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Dec 7, 2011)

I remember when Blackmachine were first starting out and I'm fairly sure that they weren't so expensive back in the day!


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## Xaios (Dec 7, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I think its pretty nice seeing a luthier charge more than minimum wage.



Agreed. So many luthiers have gone down the crapper over the past few years because they're offered custom guitars at bargain basement prices, then get overwhelmed by the demand. Wait lists get longer, builders become more unresponsive and quality suffers. Doug has never been particularly communicative, so there's not really a correlation in this case, but he's obviously still in business. He charges exclusive prices, but is able to back it up with quality instruments. While I'll grant that I've never played one, I've literally heard nothing but praise from anyone that has. If he lowered his prices at all, his wait list would probably transform into a mobius strip.


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 7, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Still much much cheaper than a nice semi hollow or acoustic though. Supposedly Doug scraps anythin he isnt happy with so if he isnt happy with multiple guitars then I can see him charging more for something he settles on.
> 
> I think its pretty nice seeing a luthier charge more than minimum wage.



I can't buy a nice semi-hollow or acoustic for $5600?


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 7, 2011)

I own a Blackmachine. They didn't cost 8k or anywhere in that vicinity except on ebay, where people with too much available money will eagerly jump on it and inflate the value. 

Tl;dr - it was a joke from Stealth.


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## Rook (Dec 7, 2011)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I remember when Blackmachine were first starting out and I'm fairly sure that they weren't so expensive back in the day!



I jumped through the various hoops to get a blackmachine in '07, he wanted £1050 for a B6 and £2100 for a B2. I passed because I felt I could get more for my money. I was then offered a mint B7 (used) for 1600 in 08 which I also passed on cos I got the BM thing out of my system a bit. I don't regret turning them down I don't think, they're not really my thing.

I totally get why people love 'em, really I do, gorgeous things.


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## engage757 (Dec 7, 2011)

stevemcqueen said:


> Is someone on this thread really talking down about Blackmachine?




ever played one?


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## elq (Dec 7, 2011)

I think only one person in this thread has - Fred.

Whether or not a Blackmachine is worth the price is between Doug and a buyer. I have zero doubts that this guitar will be sold quickly.

I don't own one, I've never played one, hell I've never seen one in person. But I do see the appeal.


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## JPMike (Dec 7, 2011)

As I said, I'd rather buy a Benedetto!!!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Dec 7, 2011)

from what i'v heard, doug sleeps on the clouds and rides a pegasis to work.


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## steve1 (Dec 7, 2011)

Reading this may help to justify the pricing a bit

blackmachine - Ordering

Possibly the last guitars that will be built entirely by hand, a run of specials, doing stuff that he wants to do, so I'm guessing more time, effort, love, perfectionism etc will be going into what he's doing. (not saying his usual work lacks any of that, but I guess he'll be giving that little bit extra)

Never played one so I don't really have any opinions on quality. The guy has made a reputation for himself though, and people are willing to pay big money for his guitars. Whether they are paying for the quality or the name or a combination of the two, I don't know. Either way, blackmachine must be doing something right.


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## Andromalia (Dec 7, 2011)

Instead of buying a new Ibanez every 6 months, save and _voila_, a 4K guitar every three years.
It juste depends if you _really _want it.


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## narad (Dec 7, 2011)

JPMike said:


> As I said, I'd rather buy a Benedetto!!!



But if you were in the market for a blackmachine type guitar, a benedetto is not going to scratch that itch, and vice versa. What Doug does, he does exceptionally well - I used to own a blackmachine and it was quite a good guitar. If this were a 7 I'd be chomping at the bit.


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## sakeido (Dec 7, 2011)

elq said:


> I think only one person in this thread has - Fred.
> 
> Whether or not a Blackmachine is worth the price is between Doug and a buyer. I have zero doubts that this guitar will be sold quickly.
> 
> I don't own one, I've never played one, hell I've never seen one in person. But I do see the appeal.



i have. its a nice top end guitar. 
only thing that differentiates it from other axes is the construction and woods.. not the tone or playability


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## chipsta21 (Dec 7, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Still much much cheaper than a nice semi hollow or acoustic though. Supposedly Doug scraps anythin he isnt happy with so if he isnt happy with multiple guitars then I can see him charging more for something he settles on.
> 
> I think its pretty nice seeing a luthier charge more than minimum wage.


 
where does he scrap the guitars?????


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## Xiphos68 (Dec 7, 2011)

These guitars are very nice and sound great.

But the price I just don't get necessarily (I know it's not 8k.)

But I don't see really the justice of 4000$. Because I've played some guitars that were not worth 4000$ yet they were sold for that price.

Is there not a guitar that gets close to a Blackmachine's tone?

I'm not putting down Doug's price, I've never played a BM but I'm sure it plays awesome. But in general what all goes in to it? Besides the wood, time, and
parts?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Not anywhere we can buy them 

Maybe he will sell B stock one day


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 7, 2011)

It's 2011, are we still all hung up on the BM value vs. price thing? 

Anyone paying over $2k for a guitar isn't getting value, regardless of builder. People who buy, or want to buy seeing as so few have really ever been made, know that they aren't buying them for the value. They're buying them for the mystique. Just like folks who buy CS Fenders, CS Gibsons, PS PRSi, second hand LACS, etc. 

Diminishing returns is always at play. I'm not saying Doug's work is sub-par, or that buying expensive guitars is silly. I know it can seem weird for folks who have only ever bought $1k guitars, but for the guys who buy numerous customs and special guitars, it's not about value.


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## technomancer (Dec 7, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Supposedly Doug scraps anythin he isnt happy with so if he isnt happy with multiple guitars then I can see him charging more for something he settles on.



I can't think of a single quality luthier that WOULD ship a guitar he wasn't happy with. Sort of goes with being a quality luthier. Then again a highly skilled luthier shouldn't have that happening very often


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## engage757 (Dec 7, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's 2011, are we still all hung up on the BM value vs. price thing?
> 
> Anyone paying over $2k for a guitar isn't getting value, regardless of builder. People who buy, or want to buy seeing as so few have really ever been made, know that they aren't buying them for the value. They're buying them for the mystique. Just like folks who buy CS Fenders, CS Gibsons, PS PRSi, second hand LACS, etc.
> 
> Diminishing returns is always at play. I'm not saying Doug's work is sub-par, or that buying expensive guitars is silly. I know it can seem weird for folks who have only ever bought $1k guitars, but for the guys who buy numerous customs and special guitars, it's not about value.





I agree. I buy lots of expensive guitars.I can see how it is hard to understand it, but there is something about holding a masterpiece. A labor of love. I have the same issue! I see something and I buy them for the mystique if I can't play them first. But I just honestly, as bad as I would like to try a Blackmachine, can't see myself buying a $4k RG with a weird Parker headstock. If I found one for around $2k or so? In a heartbeat! But $4k and I would end up shaking my head I feel like. Not for an instrument I have no experience with based on opinions from random people whom 90% of are just spewing fanboy-ism about an instrument they have no experience with. That's all I meant. If you have played one, then I would love to talk with you, love boutique instruments, want to try as many small builders as possible. But if you are just trying to get on a bandwagon, it is an expensive ride. 

I also agree that anyone paying over $2k isn't going for value.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 7, 2011)

Above 2k you're going for a heirloom quality product


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## leonardo7 (Dec 8, 2011)

engage757 said:


> But I just honestly, as bad as I would like to try a Blackmachine, can't see myself buying a $4k RG with a weird Parker headstock.



Who said this thing is going for $4000? Its going for $5600!!!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 8, 2011)

Hey Leonardo I'll buy it on your behalf so it ends up with correct specs if you want


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## leonardo7 (Dec 8, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Hey Leonardo I'll buy it on your behalf so it ends up with correct specs if you want



Thats a good idea cause if I buy it then it will likely end up coming with a poplar body and 21" scale length


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## downburst82 (Dec 8, 2011)

obviously blackmachine is in a very exclusive price bracket, for the few that can afford to even consider buying one it may very well be worth it to them but to the average guitar player/buyer it can certainly seem a little nuts. 
Its like hmmm do I save up for 3 or so years and buy a blackmachine or do I get a 6string, 7string and 8string Carvin for the same price...having said that I have nothing but love for blackmachine I will never be able to own one but thats ok


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## thedarkoceans (Dec 8, 2011)

Hey,i dont have a work,because i'm too young.but i think that if i had one,living with my parents,saving a bit,selling some useless shit (there is always something to sell) in 5 months or so i could have the money.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 8, 2011)

6k in a few months? There's tax/shipping too, I dont know what kind of useless shit you have but sounds good to me!


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## Zerox8610 (Dec 8, 2011)

I would love to buy a Blackmachine.... oh my... 

I'm much to poor at the moment to be able to afford this beast however.


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## thedarkoceans (Dec 8, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> 6k in a few months? There's tax/shipping too, I dont know what kind of useless shit you have but sounds good to me!



hey hey i meant to get around 4k.


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## Rook (Dec 8, 2011)

elq said:


> I think only one person in this thread has - Fred.
> 
> Whether or not a Blackmachine is worth the price is between Doug and a buyer. I have zero doubts that this guitar will be sold quickly.
> 
> I don't own one, I've never played one, hell I've never seen one in person. But I do see the appeal.



I've played a couple, they really weren't that mysterious about 4 or 5 years ago. I tried a b6 that a guitarist from a band owned, held a b2 at a guitar show and tried out the b7 I didn't buy.

The quality is amazing. I found the thin body a little unusual but was amazed how much bigger it sounded.

If Doug does start a production line type affair, I'll definitely consider picking one up, but for average custom money, not too bothered about over paying

I will add however, there are still people in the UK who aren't really in this global gearslut scene who sell them from time to time for not too crazy money, you just have to know where to look. That said I've not seen one in over a year...

I'm the same about strandberg as some are about bm though, so can't criticise. I've never played a strandberg, but everything about the look, style, one-man-shop and a little bit that I can't have one NOW really puts it on a pedestal for me.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Dec 8, 2011)

you guys do realize that to americans its like 5 k or something, but to a brit, its not nearly as much. its the conversion rate that makes it suck so bad for us americans


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 8, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> you guys do realize that to americans its like 5 k or something, but to a brit, its not nearly as much. its the conversion rate that makes it suck so bad for us americans



Good point. 

If you do the conversions, and look at the price of guitars in the UK, you'll see this is actually Cheaper than many Fender, Gibson, PRS, Suhr, and Parker guitars.


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## mayx (Dec 8, 2011)

Instead of discussing the price over 3 pages we should now move on and discuss the specs! Anyone knows what blackline spalt top means, spalt is clear but blackline (maybe an ebony top)? Oh, and i have a B6 since mid October and this guitar has the best playabilty i've ever experienced!


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## ShadyDavey (Dec 8, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Good point.
> 
> If you do the conversions, and look at the price of guitars in the UK, you'll see this is actually Cheaper than many Fender, Gibson, PRS, Suhr, and Parker guitars.





Rather this than.....oh wait, Suhr and Parker - not to mention Vigier. I'm all about the playability so I generally buy based on that.....but after a point you're not getting more playability....you're getting the elitist cachet of owning one, the +rep for your NGD, and the satisfaction of playing precisely the guitar you've always wanted..........enough said. For many, the latter is enough and more power to them. 

Apropos of nothing......I don't see what the perpetual fuss is about whenever a custom luthier charges a respectable amount for their guitars - it's either jealousy, trolling (Looking at you Stealth!  ) or a profound lack of understanding about economics.


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## scherzo1928 (Dec 8, 2011)

mayx said:


> Instead of discussing the price over 3 pages we should now move on and discuss the specs! Anyone knows what blackline spalt top means, spalt is clear but blackline (maybe an ebony top)? Oh, and i have a B6 since mid October and this guitar has the best playabilty i've ever experienced!


 
It's just maple with very obvious "pencil" spalt lines


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## HighGain510 (Dec 8, 2011)

I love how this thread is 3 pages long and of all the complaints about the guitar quality etc. only two of the posters in the thread have actually played one.  I've played both a B6 and a B2, the B6 was not for me at all. Misha's B2 was a VERY nice guitar, I dug it a ton. $5600 (since that's the US-ownership price, not questioning the "value" to folks in the UK) would be WAY more than I'd pay personally, but I wouldn't say the B2 wasn't a very nice guitar.  I still don't get why everyone gets so fired up about the value, it's not like you're actually CONSIDERING buying one, so why get your panties in a bunch that someone is asking that much?  Does it REALLY affect your life that much?  Doug could ask $10K if he wanted, wouldn't bother me at all, and if he gets it kudos to him. 

Apples to apples comparison: I think the Parker archtops are priced extremely high, but I understand that his quality and build techniques ARE worth it to guys who want that level of archtop guitars, so I don't let it ruin my day that his guitars are priced well beyond what I can afford.  Smirk about the price, or snicker to yourself if you're really upset with the price, but seriously the whining about how ridiculous someone is for asking a price for an instrument is played out. I say this not as a BM-fanboi because you know I'm not, just putting it out there as threads like this come off as pretty ridiculous.


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## ShadyDavey (Dec 8, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> I love how this thread is 3 pages long and of all the complaints about the guitar quality etc. only two of the posters in the thread have actually played one.  I've played both a B6 and a B2, the B6 was not for me at all. Misha's B2 was a VERY nice guitar, I dug it a ton. $5600 (since that's the US-ownership price, not questioning the "value" to folks in the UK) would be WAY more than I'd pay personally, but I wouldn't say the B2 wasn't a very nice guitar.  I still don't get why everyone gets so fired up about the value, it's not like you're actually CONSIDERING buying one, so why get your panties in a bunch that someone is asking that much?  Does it REALLY affect your life that much?  Doug could ask $10K if he wanted, wouldn't bother me at all, and if he gets it kudos to him.
> 
> Apples to apples comparison: I think the Parker archtops are priced extremely high, but I understand that his quality and build techniques ARE worth it to guys who want that level of archtop guitars, so I don't let it ruin my day that his guitars are priced well beyond what I can afford.  Smirk about the price, or snicker to yourself if you're really upset with the price, but seriously the whining about how ridiculous someone is for asking a price for an instrument is played out. I say this not as a BM-fanboi because you know I'm not, just putting it out there as threads like this come off as pretty ridiculous.





Doug has to eat too - right? 

If it sells, it was worth it to someone - they profit and kudos to the pair. Moving on.....


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 8, 2011)

I would consider buying it if I felt the price was reasonable. As it is, I've never even tried a Blackmachine. I don't really get a chance to try most guitars until I own them, and at this rate, I might not try a Blackmachine.


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## Andromalia (Dec 8, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Good point.
> 
> If you do the conversions, and look at the price of guitars in the UK, you'll see this is actually Cheaper than many Fender, Gibson, PRS, Suhr, and Parker guitars.



Yeah, on the other hand, US prices in Europe are totally out of whack because retailers gorge themselves with 1&#8364;=1USD ratios and add tax on top of that.
I think it's still cheaper comparatively to the cost of living to get a new quality CS guitar in the US than in Europe. It's when one wants something from the other side of the atlantic that problems begin. There's no way say a Jackson CS would have cost me the same price as my amfisound with the exact same design, which is quite a pricey guitar in its own right.


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## Mwoit (Dec 8, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> you guys do realize that to americans its like 5 k or something, but to a brit, its not nearly as much. its the conversion rate that makes it suck so bad for us americans



This is true. It's not that bad for a custom guitar if you're in the UK.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 8, 2011)

Even Canaderp gets kind of screwed in pricing. Things that should be priced equally or slightly less are always like 50-100 more. Nowhere near as bad as aussies paying like over 9000 for a recto though


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## Mwoit (Dec 8, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Even Canaderp gets kind of screwed in pricing. Things that should be priced equally or slightly less are always like 50-100 more. Nowhere near as bad as aussies paying like over 9000 for a recto though



Don't get them started!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Dec 8, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Canaderp


nice


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## vampiregenocide (Dec 8, 2011)

I played Nolly's B2 and I realised quickly they aren't over hyped.  So nice. I certainly wouldn't mind one.


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## JP Universe (Dec 8, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Even Canaderp gets kind of screwed in pricing. Things that should be priced equally or slightly less are always like 50-100 more. Nowhere near as bad as aussies paying like over 9000 for a recto though


 
Come on mate, it was $3600 for my single recto head and 2x12 Mesa cab!


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## sovereignsoviet (Dec 8, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> The quality is amazing. I found the thin body a little unusual but was amazed how much bigger it sounded.



I think it was a review of an 8-string custom somewhere or another where I read this: With the lower frequencies (less-so but still prevalent on a 7), thick bodies actually resonate the bass to the point of muddiness. The thin-ness helps keep the low end tight without actually detracting from it. 

Of course, I'm not a luthier or tech by any stretch of the imagination, this is just paraphrasing from somewhere on the internet, but it does make sense and is rather interesting. 

As I haven't played a BM, or a custom shop guitar outside of Carvins for that matter, I can't really say much, but I can definitely see where all the hype comes from after seeing Misha pouring praise over it in various interviews. Whoever gets their hands on this, no matter the price, is a really lucky guy and I hope they enjoy it


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## MikeH (Dec 8, 2011)

I GOT IT! Doug is shipping it out tomorrow! Oh my fuck! 





















No I didn't.


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 8, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> I love how this thread is 3 pages long and of all the complaints about the guitar quality etc. only two of the posters in the thread have actually played one.



Thats how guitar forums roll. Everyone recommends/complains about guitars/pickups/amps they've never played.

Back on topic this will be one of the last hand made blackmachines so its worth
is going to be a lot more than its selling price in a few years.


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## chronocide (Dec 8, 2011)

I've got one. It's absolutely worth the £2100 I paid for mine. Though the wait was monstrous and strewn with delays. I'm not entirely sure I'd have paid significantly more for the bonus of no waiting, but I'd certainly have thought hard about it.


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## Rook (Dec 8, 2011)

If it is $5600, that's definitely not average money in the UK! You could get a pair of Daemoness for that!


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## engage757 (Dec 9, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> I love how this thread is 3 pages long and of all the complaints about the guitar quality etc. only two of the posters in the thread have actually played one.




Exactly my point. Fanboy-ism. I would love to try one, but the price seems pretty steep for me. They look fucking awesome, but 98% of what you hear about them is internet fanboy-ism from people who have never even touched one, let alone played one.


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## vampiregenocide (Dec 9, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Exactly my point. Fanboy-ism. I would love to try one, but the price seems pretty steep for me. They look fucking awesome, but 98% of what you hear about them is internet fanboy-ism from people who have never even touched one, let alone played one.



This is why I was very interested to play Nolly's, as they had so much hype about them. They deserve it though.


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## Shadowspecced (Dec 9, 2011)

I've never played one, but the way I view it is: at the end of the day, there's only so many things that can separate one extraordinary guitar from another, and most of them are less about the guitar, and more about the person's interpretation. BRJ, Suhr, and KxK all build a guitar with identical specs, obviously they won't be identical, but they'll each have their own vibe and general approach. That's why each company has fans. Suhr has always been my personal favorite, plenty of people disagree, and plenty of people agree. The value of the guitar is only really determined by you, because it's not hard to find a guitar that you can spend $5000+ on, it's just a matter of self justification. Blackmachine is just one of those companies to me, that will never do it for me, even if I've never played one. But to some people they're the only thing they'll ever be completely happy with. No point in arguing.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Dec 9, 2011)

I've just received a B7, should post a couple family pics with the B6 soon. 

The B2 I've tried at the Musikmesse was Doug's personal one and it was absolutely brilliant, maybe the best Blackmachine I've ever tried.

That being said, these guitars are not overrated, not by any means. I truly believe they're work of art from a passionate man who has spent all his life perfecting his craft. 

There's a reason why Blackmachines have all this hype around them, I'm sure Fred agrees.


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## sakeido (Dec 9, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> There's a reason why Blackmachines have all this hype around them, I'm sure Fred agrees.



the hype is 90% the result of their scarcity. 

The hype is generally misguided... the most unique part of a blackmachine is the look. If you want a great playing guitar, there are literally dozens of companies that can sell you one. If you want a great sounding guitar, there are dozens of guitars that have the tone you want. If you want a guitar that sounds awesome and plays great, you might have to look around for awhile but you can find a guitar that fits both bills pretty much anywhere.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Dec 9, 2011)

sakeido said:


> the hype is 90% the result of their scarcity.
> 
> The hype is generally misguided... the most unique part of a blackmachine is the look. If you want a great playing guitar, there are literally dozens of companies that can sell you one. If you want a great sounding guitar, there are dozens of guitars that have the tone you want. If you want a guitar that sounds awesome and plays great, you might have to look around for awhile but you can find a guitar that fits both bills pretty much anywhere.



You surely have a point, but I don't agree. Play one (Sacha lives in your city and has a B7) and you'll understand. 

If you've already played one, well...it's just different tastes.


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## sakeido (Dec 9, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> You surely have a point, but I don't agree. Play one (Sacha lives in your city and has a B7) and you'll understand.
> 
> If you've already played one, well...it's just different tastes.



Yeah I played one... I've played better. I sold my deposit for a blackmachine after I played Sacha's, and afaik Bulb ended up getting the guitar that was the end product of my spot in line. I've played tons of guitars and unless you are drinkin the kool-aid there is nothing special about a blackmachine aside from the sheer cosmetic awesomeness


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Dec 9, 2011)

sakeido said:


> Yeah I played one... I've played better. I sold my deposit for a blackmachine after I played Sacha's, and afaik Bulb ended up getting the guitar that was the end product of my spot in line. I've played tons of guitars and unless you are drinkin the kool-aid there is nothing special about a blackmachine aside from the sheer cosmetic awesomeness



To each one his own, but to say "there's nothing special about a blackmachine" is quite an understatement, IMHO of course. 

I feel at home when I play mine. Apart from aestethics, the attack, resonance, playability and tone these guitars have is out of this world and they connect to my playing in a way other guitars just don't.


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## Quinny (Dec 9, 2011)

I have to respectfully disagree - the only thing that excites a BM fan, apart from cosmetics, is kool-aid? Wha? For a guitar in that styling, the BM just has something about it which has all but ended my search for other slinky-playing, high gain loving beasts. Not really looked at anything in that vein since....and personally, I don't much give a shit what a guitar *looks* like. (though will admit, I love the relatively un-fancy and stripped look of my B7) I haven't experienced the overall vibe of the BM anywhere else.

I also whole-heartedly agree though, for other it's Suhr which does it.... or KxK... or Daemoness....or whatever. Whatever floats your boat. 

But to say the only thing separating BM, apart from cosmetics, from others things is the 'aid......for all people.....is, well, ignorant.

Q.


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## SirMyghin (Dec 9, 2011)

Quinny said:


> I have to respectfully disagree - the only thing that excites a BM fan, apart from cosmetics, is kool-aid? Wha? For a guitar in that styling, the BM just has something about it which has all but ended my search for other slinky-playing, high gain loving beasts. Not really looked at anything in that vein since....and personally, I don't much give a shit what a guitar *looks* like. (though will admit, I love the relatively un-fancy and stripped look of my B7) I haven't experienced the overall vibe of the BM anywhere else.
> 
> I also whole-heartedly agree though, for other it's Suhr which does it.... or KxK... or Daemoness....or whatever. Whatever floats your boat.
> 
> ...



Given the amount of people chasing them who have never touched them, yeah there is some kool aid involved. BM easily beats out the competition. Suhr are something near every player will at least touch at some point. As far as 5600$ goes, or 3500 GBP, price isn't that bad. Probably similar to paying 3500-4000 $ or so from a US builder no? Besides money talks, it sells, that's the price.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 9, 2011)

I own one. Other than the obvious cosmetic marvel it is, it really sounds and feels different. I won't ever say guitar X is the ultimate instrument that puts all others to shame, but Doug has a way of approaching these matters that does make his guitars very pleasantly different from the norm, and considering the sort of kit I came to own over the years, it's not hard to find these little things that make it stand out.

Note that I am far from a fanboi - I have relative ease to get my hands on the so called holy grails, and this is an intrument I keep coming back to and definitely is a part of my frequent weapons of choice. I do agree that their current scarcity, coupled with the beauty and the fact cult players use them has ultimately generated a trend which often borders ridicule, that of inventing near mystical properties that make this transcend what it truly is: a supremely built guitar that has a distinctive tonal signature and feel that results from the vision of a great luthier. Thing is: these aren't perfect for literally everyone under the sun, so don't turn them into some sort of divine artifact.


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## noizfx (Dec 11, 2011)

So is anyone else getting any replies from Doug? Not me personally, but a friend of mine actually wants to buy the guitar, but he has emailed Doug days ago but never got any replies back...


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## thedarkoceans (Dec 11, 2011)

I think that for an american buyer Blackmachine's price suck badly.pretty much like husfchmid (yeah,dat swiss luthier) price tags may sound mad for americans,but hella cheaper for UK.


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## noizfx (Dec 11, 2011)

thedarkoceans said:


> I think that for an american buyer Blackmachine's price suck badly.pretty much like husfchmid (yeah,dat swiss luthier) price tags may sound mad for americans,but hella cheaper for UK.



My ONI...


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## narad (Dec 11, 2011)

noizfx said:


> So is anyone else getting any replies from Doug? Not me personally, but a friend of mine actually wants to buy the guitar, but he has emailed Doug days ago but never got any replies back...



I wrote pretty early on asking about the price, rough specs, got a reply with no price. Made an offer with no guide on pricing and didn't hear back. Not sure if it was a bad offer or what...didn't think it was an insulting number!


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## bulb (Dec 11, 2011)

sakeido said:


> Yeah I played one... I've played better. I sold my deposit for a blackmachine after I played Sacha's, and afaik Bulb ended up getting the guitar that was the end product of my spot in line. I've played tons of guitars and unless you are drinkin the kool-aid there is nothing special about a blackmachine aside from the sheer cosmetic awesomeness



Actually mine was originally Doug's personal build which is why it has the insane Flamed Koa top and the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard. He was saving his best pieces for himself (even the ebony fillets in the neck have the tightest grain i have ever seen on ebony), but i told him if ever he needed to sell it that i was interested.


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## bulb (Dec 11, 2011)

sakeido said:


> I've played tons of guitars and unless you are drinkin the kool-aid there is nothing special about a blackmachine aside from the sheer cosmetic awesomeness



I have noticed that you really seem to really flip-flop on this subject a lot. One second you think they are overhyped and that there isn't much special about them other than the looks and unobtanum factor. You say that much cheaper and more easily accessible guitars would suit you better, and you go well out of your way to remind people of this fact. The next you are considering spending all that money on a spec that is not even your custom order based off of the pictures that may get posted of it.

I honestly think you should take your own advice and stick to the brands you feel are better for you, hell they are cheaper anyways, you could probably get almost 2 guitars for the price of this one, and you would probably appreciate those more. 

Let this guitar go to someone who will truly appreciate it for what it is, because let's face it, Doug will have no issues selling this guitar.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 11, 2011)

bulb said:


> Actually mine was originally Doug's personal build which is why it has the insane Flamed Koa top and the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard. He was saving his best pieces for himself (even the ebony fillets in the neck have the tightest grain i have ever seen on ebony), but i told him if ever he needed to sell it that i was interested.



Yeap. I gave him a ton of flak for selling all his personal guitars at one time, and he seems to be sticking to his current B2. Contrary to popular belief, however, Doug is not a wealthy man, and he does take pride in selling guitars to players he really likes.




bulb said:


> Let this guitar go to someone who will truly appreciate it for what it is, because let's face it, Doug will have no issues selling this guitar.



This pretty much is what I think. Like I said before, these are fantastic instruments with a distinctive tone and feel, great aesthetics aside. There's bound to be people who won't connect to a guitar like this, but Doug is fortunate enough to have quite the legion of people who do love his work.


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## Quinny (Dec 13, 2011)

So, been up for a few days now...anyone know if it's found a home as yet?


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## Djdnxgdj3983jrjd8udb3bcns (Dec 13, 2011)

Was doing internet sums. For me living in the UK, that's only about 300-400 GBP more than a RAN I spec'd out once. I never pulled the trigger on the RAN in the end, but it just goes to show the costs in transatlantic trade. This is only a few quid more than some Gibson non custom models too...


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## Trespass (Dec 13, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I can't buy a nice semi-hollow or acoustic for $5600?



An archtop is an incredibly labor intensive build. A quality luthier who might charge $5600 for an archtop (ie. Erich Solomon) has years and years of experience behind the build that definitely counts, and may only be making $18-$20/hr for that build. 

For hand craftsmanship, that's insane. Try custom furniture for that price, or hell, getting a _plummer_ for that rate.

Building an acoustic, carved top/sides instrument (violin family etc.) at a "master" level is the equivalent of "mastering" a classical instrument to concert level. It takes years/decades of subtle artistry that makes a massive difference in the end product.

"Mastering" used loosely.



HighGain510 said:


> Apples to apples comparison: I think the Parker archtops are priced extremely high, but I understand that his quality and build techniques ARE worth it to guys who want that level of archtop guitars, so I don't let it ruin my day that his guitars are priced well beyond what I can afford.  Smirk about the price, or snicker to yourself if you're really upset with the price, but seriously the whining about how ridiculous someone is for asking a price for an instrument is played out. I say this not as a BM-fanboi because you know I'm not, just putting it out there as threads like this come off as pretty ridiculous.



_All that bit above being said..._

I don't think the Parker archtops are worth the $30k asking price. Ken Parker is a relative newby to the archtop building scene who is asking $30k for the novelty of his design, the sound aesthetic that design achieves, and his level of craft.

I have not played the Parker archtop. 

I am friends with a highly skilled archtop luthier here in Toronto who has at MGS*, and his unbiased but obviously informed point of view (he and Parker are competing for different segments of the market here) was that it definitely was not worth the 30k. The level of craft does not reflect that asking price, partially due to it's how young it is. The design hasn't stood the rigours of 90 years of multiple copies and design theory like the standard New Yorker or Excel shape has.

So the average D'Angelico/D'Acquisto clone by a relatively new luthier with perhaps 4-5 years of archtop building experience, will tonally blow away the Parker. Is that novel or innovative? No. But it's naturally the competition the Parker archtop faces.

I'm more interested in the Trenier and Solomon archtop/flattop hybrids, which are around the 8-9k range.

*Montreal Guitar Show

-----

Naturally, this is all subjective. I'm just giving the archtop side of the story here. I'm of the opinion that pickups in wood are going to sound like pickups in wood, and that height of action, style of bridge, pick matieral/shape, your playstyle and obvious the design of the pickup itself make far more a difference in tone than body wood.


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## HighGain510 (Dec 13, 2011)

Trespass said:


> I don't think the Parker archtops are worth the $30k asking price.





Trespass said:


> I have not played the Parker archtop.



Again this goes to the "if you haven't played it, you can't really give an informed opinion." rule...  Just saying. 




Trespass said:


> I am friends with a *highly skilled archtop luthier* here in Toronto who has at MGS*, and his *unbiased* but obviously informed point of view (*he and Parker are competing for different segments of the market here*) was that it definitely was not worth the 30k.



Well your statement totally contradicts itself. A) Opinions are just that. B) Your friend is a luthier who is competing in the SAME market (granted, not in the same price range), he can't actually give a 100% unbiased opinion.  See how that seems odd? Again, I know guys who own them, they own a lot of other very nice, high-end guitars and they say they are worth it to them. "Worth" is a funny thing... beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if someone pays "$____" for something, it's only "worth" that much to that person.  I say again, it's a rather bizarre thing to debate in the first place.


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## technomancer (Dec 13, 2011)

Ok same shit different thread, this has clearly run its course.


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## narad (Dec 13, 2011)

Trespass said:


> I don't think the Parker archtops are worth the $30k asking price. Ken Parker is a relative newby to the archtop building scene who is asking $30k for the novelty of his design, the sound aesthetic that design achieves, and his level of craft.
> 
> I have not played the Parker archtop.
> 
> I am friends with a highly skilled archtop luthier here in Toronto who has at MGS*, and his unbiased but obviously informed point of view (he and Parker are competing for different segments of the market here) was that it definitely was not worth the 30k.



Eh, it's worth what it sells for. You can try to rationalize it any way you want, but it is worth exactly that. Besides, you can't try to neg Parker just because he's younger than most of the master archtop builders - to your analogy with _playing_ the instrument, there are many prodigies that don't need to put in as much time as the average person. Certainly I think it's fairer to measure the product and not the person.

Plz moar blackmachine now kthnx.


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