# The degradation of John Petrucci technique



## Rachmaninoff (Mar 17, 2017)

Today I was talking to some friends about fast alternate picking technique, and differences when you pick mostly with your wrist vs. with your arm. Malmsteen and Paul Gilbert are great examples of relaxed picking, movement comes mostly from wrist. Until years ago John Petrucci also used his wrist a lot more, but at some point he started picking with his arm, just like Zakk Wylde and Timo Tolkki. These two videos can show the difference.

"As I Am" solo in 2004, starts at 5:43, perfect execution, relaxed wrist movement:



"As I Am" solo in 2015, starts at 5:28, missing notes, sometimes off-tempo, tense arm movement:



So *what the hell*? Maybe he's not practicing anymore? I refuse to believe it has something to do with aging: it should be the opposite, the older one becomes, more technique one develops to play more effortlessly.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 17, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> I refuse to believe it has something to do with aging: it should be the opposite, the older one becomes, more technique one develops to play more effortlessly.



You must be pretty young. Age can be brutal on your joints and muscles. Not to mention nerves.

Not to mention, everyone has bad days.


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## SpaceDock (Mar 17, 2017)

Maybe you should accept him as he is


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## protest (Mar 17, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> I refuse to believe it has something to do with aging: it should be the opposite, the older one becomes, more technique one develops to play more effortlessly.



Yea you see this a lot with pro athletes, they just keep getting better as they age 

As much as we all like to joke about him being a robot, he's still very much a person, and with age you slow down. It's especially noticeable if you pay very close attention to players who play very clean while playing fast. Eventually they can't&#8203; do what they once could as easily, if at all.


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 17, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not to mention, everyone has bad days.





SpaceDock said:


> Maybe you should accept him as he is




Please don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the man. I'm not questioning his "stamina" or whathever, because we all know aging is tough on this. My question is just about his *technique*, which seems to be worse nowadays.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 17, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> My question is just about his *technique*, which seems to be worse nowadays.



Which goes right back to what myself and others have said: age. He's just shy of 50 and has been playing guitar professionally well over half of those years. That's a lot of abuse. 

Your wrists (and ankles for that matter) don't hold up well with age, so it's not surprising to see him shift to using the larger joints to move. 

It's not that he woke up one day and decided to start using his elbow more than his wrist, he woke up one day and _couldn't_ use his wrist as much as his elbow.

Also, not to open this can of worms, I doubt starting to lift weights in his 40s has helped much.


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## marcwormjim (Mar 18, 2017)

I assumed it was due to combing the hair from his wrist over to his head


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## chopeth (Mar 18, 2017)

SpaceDock said:


> Maybe you should accept him as he is


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## ElRay (Mar 18, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> ... Maybe he's not practicing anymore? I refuse to believe it has something to do with aging: it should be the opposite, the older one becomes, more technique one develops to play more effortlessly.



Hey Rachi. It's bedtime. Time to get off mommy's computer and brush your teeth. Don't forget your footie PJ's. It's still cold at night.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 18, 2017)

Like pro athletes and body builders these guys muscles and joints are ....ed from years of abuse. I read an interview with Tony Iommi listing out about 6 problems he had with his hands and wrists from years of playing and how he needed a bunch of operations to rewind his playing back to what it used to be.


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 18, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not that he woke up one day and decided to start using his elbow more than his wrist, he woke up one day and _couldn't_ use his wrist as much as his elbow.



This is sad to read.


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## papa_moz (Mar 18, 2017)

Rachi... I think you're missing some other critical things. In 2004, DT was on the Train of Thought tour so JP had been practicing/playing this solo regularly for several months from the time they recorded through this tour. So it should have been damn near perfect. Not to mention this was a time when the set lists were pretty standard for much of the tour. So he got to play it lots. 

2015 is 11 years later and "As I Am" hadn't really been a staple of their live set. Also, this was a festival show. A lot of times band don't have the same kind of warm up time prior to going on stage. Something JP talks about doing for several hours prior to a live show.

Also, even guitar gods can have an off day.


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 18, 2017)

papa_moz said:


> Also, this was a festival show. A lot of times band don't have the same kind of warm up time prior to going on stage. Something JP talks about doing for several hours prior to a live show.



Yep, that's true. I've seen one interview where he says this.


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## cip 123 (Mar 18, 2017)

Guys, guys, guys, you're missing the biggest change.......Portnoy's not there holding down that beat. John just can't get that timing with Mangini, duh!


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## prlgmnr (Mar 18, 2017)

The Inevitable Degradation of John Petrucci, coming to all good record stores this fall


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## extendedsolo (Mar 19, 2017)

eh I think it's the angle difference in the two videos. 

I think that it'll be interesting to see how the ultra shredders age as time goes on. Will their chops go downhill? I saw steve vai recently and his weren't quite as good as they usually are.


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## Drew (Mar 20, 2017)

SpaceDock said:


> Maybe you should accept him as he is



I'm surprised this isn't getting a better reaction.


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## technomancer (Mar 20, 2017)

Aging is a bitch, children


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## tedtan (Mar 20, 2017)

Drew said:


> I'm surprised this isn't getting a better reaction.



There's no rep or like button these days.

But I found it quite humorous, myself.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 20, 2017)

Are likes ever coming back?


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## stevexc (Mar 20, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Are likes ever coming back?



Allegedly yes, when the alleged new forum software allegedly drops within the first 90 days of this year (ie. by the 31st).


Allegedly.


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## AuroraTide (Mar 21, 2017)

Slightly off topic, but I'm curious to see how shred guitar players hold up with age... You can exercise and practice as much as you like but ultimately time wins the battle. 

With Vai in his 50s and Petrucci not far off from 50, how long will these guys be able to sustain a high level of playing. Is there any high level 60 year old "shredders?"


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 21, 2017)

AuroraTide said:


> Slightly off topic, but I'm curious to see how shred guitar players hold up with age... You can exercise and practice as much as you like but ultimately time wins the battle.
> 
> With Vai in his 50s and Petrucci not far off from 50, how long will these guys be able to sustain a high level of playing. Is there any high level 60 year old "shredders?"



Satch is 60.


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## marcwormjim (Mar 21, 2017)

And doesn't look a day over monstrous.


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## Dcm81 (Mar 21, 2017)

Isn't Batio over 60.....?


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## Drew (Mar 21, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Satch is 60.



Which blows my mind. The fact my first Satriani album was Crystal Planet (actually, I might have bought the obligatory copy of Surfing before that and loved the guitar playing but was turned off by the mix - CP was the one that really made me a fan) and that album was released _19 years ago_ hurts to think about.

EDIT - though, I'll also say this - Satriani still plays at an amazingly high level, and I think there are lessons to be learned from the mechanics of his technique and thwe fact he's been able to play fast/stretchy legato licks for his entire career without really having more than fleeting RSI issues related to certain parts (the two handed tapping stuff in Power Cosmic is all that's coming to mind) during that whole time - in particular, watch his thumb and how he shifts from a "blues" position to a "classical" one and back. However, I think his best solos these days are the ones that rely less on sheet stupefying technique, and more composition/contrast/feel with technique used as color - bursts of speed, but as an accent, and not as the focus. I do wonder if that's a concession to age (though, it's one that he's managing well if so).


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## musicaldeath (Mar 21, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Also, not to open this can of worms, I doubt starting to lift weights in his 40s has helped much.



I use wrist straps now for heavy dead lifts (or any heavy pulling movement) just due to the fact I can barely flex my hands the next day if I don't. The tendons in the arm get abused from it all. This, for me at least, makes playing guitar a lot harder than it should be for a few days afterward.


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## Descent (Mar 21, 2017)

I remember reading somewhere that Steve Morse can't feel his fingers anymore so he has to judge a bend by the tone from the amplifier. Still, you couldn't tell watching him live as he's a monster player.


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## Webmaestro (Mar 21, 2017)

I've been thinking about this topic a lot as well, as I've seen my childhood heroes--Vai, Petrucci, Malmsteen, and others--age. It seems that Paul Gilbert is the only dude that is somehow mysteriously able to maintain that surgical precision and speed. Batio is another one, but I'm not a huge fan of his playing, in general.

However, I'm aging right along with them. I'm only a few years younger than my guitar heroes, so I can 100% sympathize and don't at all hold it against them. But yeah, I've noticed a natural decline in their speed and precision (as I have with my own playing).

Wait... screw that...

Let's talk about the degradation of James LaBrie. What the hell?


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## Descent (Mar 21, 2017)

Webmaestro said:


> It seems that Paul Gilbert is the only dude that is somehow mysteriously able to maintain that surgical precision and speed.



I am not so sure. Got a few of his newer albums and it seems sloppier. He's playing bluesier though, which might be on purpose. I still like most of it. Bivalve Blues is one of my faves. BTW - he's took a hit in the hearing dept., notice these big cans he wears on stage? Ouch. I'm kinda there too - switched to big iso cans recently and I hear the mix better, and myself in the mix.


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 21, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> Isn't Batio over 60.....?



Michael Angelo Batio is 61.


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## scrub (Mar 21, 2017)

uh, maybe he just had a bad day? It happens.


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## Drew (Mar 21, 2017)

scrub said:


> uh, maybe he just had a bad day? It happens.



I once saw John Petrucci almost flub two notes, live, at the start of his Erotomania solo. Barely. He must have been so upset afterwards.


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## Edika (Mar 22, 2017)

I don't know, I saw Vai in a workshop two years ago and his playing seemed flawless and fluid as ever. It wasn't a full show and it wasn't continuous so he had quite a bit of pause in between songs and that probably is a different reality than playing a continuous show. But I was really blown away and I'm not a huge Vai fan!


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 22, 2017)

scrub said:


> uh, maybe he just had a bad day? It happens.



Unfortunately not. Recent videos are all pretty much like that.


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## Glades (Mar 22, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> Michael Angelo Batio is 61.



Batio is not the same he was when he did Speed Kills. Watch him then and now. There is a difference, and it's significant.

Age gets to everybody. Nobody is immune to it. It's nature. You shouldn't feel sad about this.

The only guitarist that I could say I started loving more the older he got was Gary Moore.


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## efx1138 (Mar 22, 2017)

Truth be told, it could be a number of things. Maybe he's not practicing as much as when he was younger due to a shift in priorities. Having watched him play since 1992 it never felt to me that he was a relaxed player when it came to the shreddy stuff, he was always great at it but other players like YJM and Gilbert both looked much more relaxed and comparatively I think their technique is holding up just fine.

Also, look at classical musicians where the degradation of technique, if it even comes is usually at a much later age than 50. That of course could be due to those instruments like the piano and violin having been around a lot longer than the electric guitar and a best practices method has had a longer time to materialize but I don't see why this wouldn't be true for a guitar shredder in any way as long as they were careful with their hands.


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## Drew (Mar 22, 2017)

You know, two further comments: 

1) Let's also not forget that between 2004 and 2016, John Petrucci's arms blew up about 8" further in diameter. Weight lifting is suppored to be fairly bad for fine motor control. 

2). Also, can we pause and comment on the fact that somehow _Train of Thought_ is being held up as Dream Theater "back in the day" here? We're talking about a band who pretty much everywhere else SFAM was kind of seen as their last hurrah, and even then it was dipping a little too far into self-indulgent territory.


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## prlgmnr (Mar 23, 2017)

Drew said:


> 1) Let's also not forget that between 2004 and 2016, John Petrucci's arms blew up about 8" further in diameter. Weight lifting is suppored to be fairly bad for fine motor control.



You certainly hear this said a lot, but I'm not sure there's a lot to it.

I know a lot of people say "oh don't lift weights, you'll get too big and it will slow you down" with reference to double bass drum playing, to which...well, Gene Hoglan.

Rick Graham might be a relevant guitar example.


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## Drew (Mar 23, 2017)

prlgmnr said:


> You certainly hear this said a lot, but I'm not sure there's a lot too it.
> 
> I know a lot of people say "oh don't lift weights, you'll get too big and it will slow you down" with reference to double bass drum playing, to which...well, Gene Hoglan.
> 
> Rick Graham might be a relevant guitar example.



Like anything, I think it CAN impact your fine motor control - it's certainly something that has the chance for injury. I can't claim to have studied this scientifically, though, but it's certainly a conversation worth having with your doctor before launching on a weightlifting campaign, if you're a guitarist. Heck, as you get older doing that ANYWAY before making large chances in your workouts becomes more important.


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## prlgmnr (Mar 23, 2017)

I have to admit I bailed out on weightlifting about a year ago because my 1 year old kid was sleeping so badly that I just couldn't recover properly. The benefits to guitar playing and drumming of not having my forearms constantly trashed from deadlifts are pretty great.


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## cip 123 (Mar 23, 2017)

If you're talking about age being a factor, I'm just putting it out there. I saw Eric Johnson play live and he did not miss a single note, the man is an absolute machine.


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## Winger (Mar 23, 2017)

There's an interview with Paul Gilbert on youtube someplace where he talks about playing one of his old Racer-X songs (sorry I don't remember which one). He says he can't just grab a guitar and play the song like he did in the 80s. He's got to warm up to play it.

Personally, i'm glad the people I have admired over the years have been guitar players. They hold up a lot better than other musicians. Age is especially hard on the singers.


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## marcwormjim (Mar 24, 2017)

cip 123 said:


> If you're talking about age being a factor, I'm just putting it out there. I saw Eric Johnson play live and he did not miss a single note, the man is an absolute machine.



He sure is. It's worth mentioning and he and Vai are the health-conscious, vegan-meditating type, and that EJ has never played as fast as a lot of his peers - He seems to very deliberately keep the ceiling of his technique above the hardest runs in his songs.

Makes me wonder how fast/morbidly obese Shawn Lane might be, today.


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## prlgmnr (Mar 24, 2017)

Ah yes, the Gene Hoglan of the guitar, don't know how I forgot him.


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## Malkav (Mar 24, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> Makes me wonder how fast/morbidly obese Shawn Lane might be, today.



Shawn Lane's psoriasis was already getting the best of him near the end of his life, he was still hilariously fast but the kinds of lines and phrases he used changed in terms of the position shifts he was favouring. Guy was still an absolute ....ing God though, never stopped being that for a moment.


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## marcwormjim (Mar 24, 2017)

I wish he had released an instructional video or book in the last five years of his life, during or after his raga period. The guy could master and incorporate any style he wanted to; and all we got from him on the academic front was focused on random licks, solo excerpts, and picking patterns that mere mortals have no hope of nailing at the given tempos.


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## beerandbeards (Mar 24, 2017)

This thread should be considered blasphemy and someone should call the Roman Guard


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## Alex Kenivel (Mar 24, 2017)

You mean these guys are just mortal humans? No, can't be...


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## extendedsolo (Mar 24, 2017)

Drew said:


> Which blows my mind. The fact my first Satriani album was Crystal Planet (actually, I might have bought the obligatory copy of Surfing before that and loved the guitar playing but was turned off by the mix - CP was the one that really made me a fan) and that album was released _19 years ago_ hurts to think about.
> 
> EDIT - though, I'll also say this - Satriani still plays at an amazingly high level, and I think there are lessons to be learned from the mechanics of his technique and thwe fact he's been able to play fast/stretchy legato licks for his entire career without really having more than fleeting RSI issues related to certain parts (the two handed tapping stuff in Power Cosmic is all that's coming to mind) during that whole time - in particular, watch his thumb and how he shifts from a "blues" position to a "classical" one and back. However, I think his best solos these days are the ones that rely less on sheet stupefying technique, and more composition/contrast/feel with technique used as color - bursts of speed, but as an accent, and not as the focus. I do wonder if that's a concession to age (though, it's one that he's managing well if so).



I saw Satch a year ago more because "these guys won't be around forever and I feel like I need to see the greats". I was blown away. Speed isn't what defines him and his relying on melody is, so many tasteful well placed licks and a huge blues background it sounds like. Uses flurries of speed but doesn't let it carry him.


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## Drew (Mar 24, 2017)

extendedsolo said:


> I saw Satch a year ago more because "these guys won't be around forever and I feel like I need to see the greats". I was blown away. Speed isn't what defines him and his relying on melody is, so many tasteful well placed licks and a huge blues background it sounds like. Uses flurries of speed but doesn't let it carry him.



Yikes, hearing someone describe Satch as "one of the greats I gotta see before he dies" makes me feel even OLDER somehow. 

The first time I saw Satch was the second, I thin, G3 tour, with John Petrucci and Vai, which would have been mayeb 2002...? What floored me the most wasn't his technique, it was his vibrato and his use of space. Not at ALL what I was expecting to be floored with in my first Satch concert, but the man can absolutely bring a guitar part to life.


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## bostjan (Mar 24, 2017)

Nobody knows how long any of these guitar greats will remain with us. JP will go down in history as a great guitarist simply for his work on _Images and Words_, which was decades ago.

So 1) I'm not sure what the main idea is of the thread, and 2) Everyone has off days, more often at an advanced age.


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## AxeHappy (Mar 24, 2017)

Drew said:


> Like anything, I think it CAN impact your fine motor control - it's certainly something that has the chance for injury. I can't claim to have studied this scientifically, though, but it's certainly a conversation worth having with your doctor before launching on a weightlifting campaign, if you're a guitarist. Heck, as you get older doing that ANYWAY before making large chances in your workouts becomes more important.



Straying off topic perhaps, but some of us do keep up with the science on this stuff. Statistically weightlifting is pretty much the safest sport around. Here is the most recent review:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-016-0575-0?__s=3jrge7yiwzwhjds3bzav

If you train smart, it is also one of the best things you can do for your joints and tendons in general. Your body adapts and they get stronger along with your muscle. Hell, your bones get tougher from it. 

Less off topic:
Weight lifting would strengthen the muscles around his wrist, taking strain off it which if anything, would help him perform with wrist only movements. 

You can find a video somewhere of Petrucci saying he will anchor with his pinky right in the spot for a direct mount pickup screw when he goes into hyper speed mode. I think this is a conscious choice John has made.


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## mdeeRocks (Mar 26, 2017)

Age theory is BS.

Paul Gilbert just turned 50 he is as good as ever, if not better, I have seen him playing live last week. Nothing mysterious about it. He just practices a ton, via his teaching, regular practice, gigging etc.. I had a lesson with him a couple of months ago some string skipping arpeggios he does I had trouble cleaning them up, he pin pointed the issue and proceeded to play much more advanced version of the lick, he fumbled just a bit and immediately said, "well thanks I guess you've made me clean this up a bit too". In last 3-4 years he has made about 5000 (yeah 5 thousands) 3-10 minutes private lesson videos for his students.

It's not like playing guitar is bricklaying, fine motor functions don't deteriorate that much until very late in life (70+), except for people who are ill. Not enough warmup, maybe he has some health problems, not enough sleep, didn't practice enough (PG said once that fast picking is like exotic fish - nice to look at but requires constant maintenance or they die) or maybe his technique had some flaws which built up during years. He may be bored of playing fast and doesn't care anymore. Once you've done it, there isn't that much to it really..

Occam razor says that it was a bad day.

By the way Billy ....ing Sheehan is in his 60. Go see him with Mr. Big or Winery Dogs and come back with this age theory again. This guy plays a bass by the way.. huge strings. He does practice too.


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## thesnowdog (Mar 27, 2017)

MAB touches on this topic here (at 1h4m10s):


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## ramses (Mar 27, 2017)

mdeeRocks said:


> Occam razor says that it was a bad day.



Saw Malmsteen live last year, during the Generation Axe tour. I could not believe that the ....er was actually playing a lot faster AND cleaner than during his "prime" years. He was also doing it while jumping all over the stage!


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## USMarine75 (Mar 27, 2017)

Lynch is 62 and Dug is 66. Not nearly as complicated or technique oriented as Petrucci... but neither is slowing down fo sho.


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## mdeeRocks (Mar 27, 2017)

thesnowdog said:


> MAB touches on this topic here (at 1h4m10s):



Right on. I am not Michael Angelo Batman, I am younger than him as well, but I've noticed that - it does take longer to warm up (doesn't bother me at all). Good stretches became more important too. This is great interview, by the way. Batio is really enjoyable and interesting to listen to, his looks are really deceiving


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## USMarine75 (Mar 28, 2017)

This thread made me realize how bad my right hand technique had become over the years. As a 40 year old large powerlifter myself, I attributed it to muscle fatigue from lifting nearly every day, plus having to move a larger mass (hence why NFL Qb's don't have huge arms). But after watching these vids I realized that my speed picking technique had become utter garbage. 

My form is a combination of Dave Mustaine (last 3 fingers straight and often used a bridge) and Eric Johnson (pickslanting with straight attack). I also noticed I hold my thumb and 1st finger both completely straight (like EVH but with 1st and not 2nd), not with my index curled like most. I also didn't realize how dependent I am on legato and HO/PO for speed. 

I've been trying to speed pick more lately and I found that I was getting fatigued within minutes of playing (again which I shrugged off as workout fatigue). Watching this video made me realize I was picking mostly with my arm and not wrist/fingers. 

The last couple days I've been working on pick tilt and picking with my wrist/fingers and I've already noticed an increase in speed and less fatigue. So I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad OP posted these vids... Thanks!


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 28, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> This thread made me realize how bad my right hand technique had become over the years. (...)
> Watching this video made me realize I was picking mostly with my arm and not wrist/fingers. (...)
> So I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad OP posted these vids... Thanks!



You're welcome!


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## domsch1988 (Apr 11, 2017)

As someone who made a serious body transformation myself (went from 130kg and borderline obese to 90kg and lifting heavy) i'd like to chime in.
- Lifting weights is not bad for your joints, bones, muscels or fine motorics. You need to listen to your body and not give 110% 7 days a week. When you don't overdo it lifting weights is perfectly save and does not kill your body.
- When your body changes, your playing needs to change too. Without that big tummy holding my LP i need to pay more attention to properly sitting while playing. Increased arm size changed muting positions a bit and your pick angles change slightly because your wirst is a bit further away from the guitar. 

Overall, i don't think lifting has a detremental effect on playing technique per se. But, if your gym time is cut from your playing time it might  For me personally, increased strength has helped me increase my speed and stamina. Not that i was or am petrucci levels before or now, but my arms certainly feel less sore after long playing sessions today.

All this assumes that you aren't consuming testosterone or other enhancing drugs and are not trying to become a competitive strength athlete. But if you are, you're playing skills should be secondary anyways 

Finally, maybe the musical focus shifts with the years. I found that getting older made me appreciate melody and arrangement over speed


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## eightsixboy (Apr 11, 2017)

mdeeRocks said:


> Age theory is BS.
> 
> Paul Gilbert just turned 50 he is as good as ever, if not better, I have seen him playing live last week. Nothing mysterious about it. He just practices a ton, via his teaching, regular practice, gigging etc.. I had a lesson with him a couple of months ago some string skipping arpeggios he does I had trouble cleaning them up, he pin pointed the issue and proceeded to play much more advanced version of the lick, he fumbled just a bit and immediately said, "well thanks I guess you've made me clean this up a bit too". In last 3-4 years he has made about 5000 (yeah 5 thousands) 3-10 minutes private lesson videos for his students.
> 
> ...





For someone like PG who has a very fluid picking technique, yea he probably won't have many wrist issues in his life. He also doesn't pick everything, neither do a lot of players.


Morse was about 50 when he started having major wrist issues. Both Morse and Petrucci are strict alt pick guys with very demanding right hand techniques. 


As someone mentioned before Petrucci's technique isn't the most fluid, never was, as soon as you get some tightness in the wrist or smaller joints you will have to rely on the bigger joints for movement, exactly what he is doing more in recent years. 


I don't see how you can say age has no bearing of playing capacity and its just practice alone, if anything its repetition mixed with age that causes wrist issues. Exacly was over practicing does.


Occams Razor points to wrist issues.


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## mdeeRocks (Apr 16, 2017)

eightsixboy said:


> For someone like PG who has a very fluid picking technique, yea he probably won't have many wrist issues in his life. He also doesn't pick everything, neither do a lot of players.
> 
> 
> Morse was about 50 when he started having major wrist issues. Both Morse and Petrucci are strict alt pick guys with very demanding right hand techniques.
> ...



Read my post again. We don't know, unless you happen to know John personally and you were with him on that day. The most plausible speculation is that he had a bad day (google what occam razor is before using it).

The bottom line is that he can play circles around most people on the planet even on his bad day and I guess he will be able to continue until he is really old.


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## mdeeRocks (Apr 16, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> Lynch is 62 and Dug is 66. Not nearly as complicated or technique oriented as Petrucci... but neither is slowing down fo sho.




Holy ...., the solo in this tune...
On the other note, I wish I could be half as cool as Dug is when I am 66


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## eightsixboy (Apr 17, 2017)

mdeeRocks said:


> Read my post again. We don't know, unless you happen to know John personally and you were with him on that day. The most plausible speculation is that he had a bad day (google what occam razor is before using it).
> 
> The bottom line is that he can play circles around most people on the planet even on his bad day and I guess he will be able to continue until he is really old.





Lol, occam razor just means the simplest explanation is likely the correct one. Given the multitude of possible simple explanations I think you using occam razor is a bit silly to begin with, or did you just throw it in there trying to make yourself sound smart?


The most plausible explanation based on his technique over the last few years and its changes is simply age catching up with him. What's wrong with that anyway?


To assume he had a bad day when others (including myself) have said he does the same thing all the time now or a lot more then usual indicates that it wasn't just a "bad day".


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## thesnowdog (May 5, 2017)

He talks a little about some of these issues here (at 30m)


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## USMarine75 (May 5, 2017)

Rachmaninoff said:


> You're welcome!



Not to mention my right shoulder tends to hurt and get tired when I play now? And I'm def not a speed picking guy, I'm as legato as it gets... but modern metal rhythm playing seems to be killing me. Sadface.


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## Dredg (May 13, 2017)

ramses said:


> Saw Malmsteen live last year, during the Generation Axe tour. I could not believe that the ....er was actually playing a lot faster AND cleaner than during his "prime" years. He was also doing it while jumping all over the stage!




I caught Malmsteen a few years back and he was pretty sloppy. Outright flubbed a couple of runs. Could just be a bad night, but either way, the man knows how to put on one hell of a show.


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## marcwormjim (May 13, 2017)

But it's been the same show for thirty years, and the best instances of it occurred in the mid-80s. Just think about it from Yngwie's point of view: You're seeing him on a Groundhog Day that's been repeating since 1983, except his body has been aging in real time; and it's failing to reproduce all the same choreographed high kicks, catching the pick, asking what time it is and then yelling "It's time...to rock,", etc. And he's been going through these motions all for the sake of buying _another_ white 70s strat, _another_ red Ferrari, a _larger_ leather suit. It's like he's Santa Claus, and every day he wakes up to discover it's Xmas eve again, and the only detail setting the years apart are whether it's confectioner's sugar or cocaine he's snorting.

Hellish.

Or at least that's what I noticed my mind drifting to the last time I saw him live. His technique was still better than mine will ever be.


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## Sumsar (May 13, 2017)

Michael Romeo of Symphony X is another guy that springs to mind. He doesn't seem as sharp as he used to be - seen some live shots where he completely messes up. He is 49.

On the other hand there is Jeff Loomis which is 45 and pretty much seems to be at the top of his game in these years.

An aspect that haven't been discussed that much, except maybe the latest post is how your mind ages or your goals in life. When you are 18 - 25 you wanna conquer the world and be the fastest and best guitar player ever. When you are 50 - 60 you probably know that you have climaxed as a player and maybe even as a musician (for some) and generally you might not feel as inspired to play guitar. Problem is that it is the only thing you can really do in life, you have never done anything else.

Paul Gilbert still seems super excited about the guitar, and maybe that's what makes him practice and still hold up.

Not saying I know anything about this topic, just trying to add to the discussion


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## Dredg (May 14, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> But it's been the same show for thirty years, and the best instances of it occurred in the mid-80s. Just think about it from Yngwie's point of view: You're seeing him on a Groundhog Day that's been repeating since 1983, except his body has been aging in real time; and it's failing to reproduce all the same choreographed high kicks, catching the pick, asking what time it is and then yelling "It's time...to rock,", etc. And he's been going through these motions all for the sake of buying _another_ white 70s strat, _another_ red Ferrari, a _larger_ leather suit. It's like he's Santa Claus, and every day he wakes up to discover it's Xmas eve again, and the only detail setting the years apart are whether it's confectioner's sugar or cocaine he's snorting.
> 
> Hellish.
> 
> Or at least that's what I noticed my mind drifting to the last time I saw him live. His technique was still better than mine will ever be.




Malmsteen's legacy is sort of looking a lot like Spinal Tap. When I saw him, the event was billed as "Open Air" when in actuality it was a stage trailer in a parking lot.

But cheers to the legend. I hope he high kicks until the day he dies.


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