# What is cutting through the mix means and how do you know which amps cant do this?



## jin (Sep 12, 2011)

So i have this question on mind for quite awhile and i usually see people mentioning this mostly in amp recommendation threads. they will usually say "Amp A" doesnt cut through the mix so dont buy it etc. What does it mean by cutting through the mix? from my knowledge it means when u record the guitar using "amp a" you cant hear it well together with the other instruments. or does this only apply to live situations where the guitar amp canot be heard with other instruments and the singer when they are performing. That being said, i also see alot of people saying that ENGL amps canot cut through the mix . not that i dont trust them or anything but if you pay so much for engls and they dont do their job , then whats the point lol... anyways how do you know which amps can cut through the mix ? i have only heard of 5150's as people mention them alot but how come the 5150 is cheaper yet it does a better job then a more expensive amp?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 12, 2011)

Its referring to a live situation where the amp isn't producing enough mids to be heard while playing with the rest of the band.

The old engl fireball 60 and I think powerball had this problem but it seems to be resolved in the newer models. I haven't heard of any other engls with that problem.

The 6505 pushes a TON of mids so it doesn't have a problem cutting in a mix. The expense of an amp is really for sound and features not just something as simple as how it sits in the mix.


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## vanhendrix (Sep 12, 2011)

I would like to know how many people who propagate this myth about engls have actually used them? Or at least what kind of guitar/tuning combination is making this happen. With my 6 strings in standard, I have never had any sort of trouble "cutting through" whatsoever when using my powerball. I don't use a boost, mind you.

Engls aside, this whole "cutting through" stigma is just nonsense generated by boards like this one. One guy says engls don't cut, so the next guy takes it as fact and mentions it in the next thread, thereby exposing more people. Don't blame the equipment, blame the user.


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## danger5oh (Sep 12, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> Engls aside, this whole "cutting through" stigma is just nonsense generated by boards like this one. One guy says engls don't cut, so the next guy takes it as fact and mentions it in the next thread, thereby exposing more people. Don't blame the equipment, blame the user.



I couldn't agree more!

I'm the proud owner of a Krank Rev1, which is arguably one of the most bashed amps on any forum. Not only do I not have any problems cutting through the mix in a band with 3 guitarists, but I also have gotten a lot of shocked expressions when people hear the tone that I can actually get out if this thing. They all say the same thing... "I heard on _____ forum that Kranks were sterile, fizzy, noisy, etc, etc, blah, blah..."


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## danger5oh (Sep 12, 2011)

And in response to the OP... just add mids. The problem I see with a lot of amps is user error... they scoop the hell out of the mids expecting instant metal tone. And also keep in mind that the settings that you use at home, in the studio, and on the stage are usually completely different.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Sep 12, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> I would like to know how many people who propagate this myth about engls have actually used them? Or at least what kind of guitar/tuning combination is making this happen. With my 6 strings in standard, I have never had any sort of trouble "cutting through" whatsoever when using my powerball. I don't use a boost, mind you.
> 
> Engls aside, this whole "cutting through" stigma is just nonsense generated by boards like this one. One guy says engls don't cut, so the next guy takes it as fact and mentions it in the next thread, thereby exposing more people. Don't blame the equipment, blame the user.



Because the fire and powerball don't cut through when paired with other amps. I've used one and worked in a band with a guitarist who had one and my amp ate his alive without even trying. Many who say that speak from personal experience..and apparently even ENGL agreed because they had to revamp the line. I've also spoken to a few professional studio owners who also agree that the amps don't cut very well..I blame the equipment.

To the OP, some amps have more mids than others and just have a characteristic to the tone that for whatever reason just takes over the soundscape. Ever heard the thing about Rectos eating other amps in a band mix? Depth to the tone, mixed with the right amount of mids, make the difference.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 12, 2011)

danger5oh said:


> I couldn't agree more!
> 
> I'm the proud owner of a Krank Rev1, which is arguably one of the most bashed amps on any forum. Not only do I not have any problems cutting through the mix in a band with 3 guitarists, but I also have gotten a lot of shocked expressions when people hear the tone that I can actually get out if this thing. They all say the same thing... "I heard on _____ forum that Kranks were sterile, fizzy, noisy, etc, etc, blah, blah..."


 
This is why you take hearsay with a grain of salt and make your own decisions...


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## vanhendrix (Sep 12, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Because the fire and powerball don't cut through when paired with other amps. I've used one and worked in a band with a guitarist who had one and my amp ate his alive without even trying. Many who say that speak from personal experience..and apparently even ENGL agreed because they had to revamp the line. I've also spoken to a few professional studio owners who also agree that the amps don't cut very well..I blame the equipment.
> 
> To the OP, some amps have more mids than others and just have a characteristic to the tone that for whatever reason just takes over the soundscape. Ever heard the thing about Rectos eating other amps in a band mix? Depth to the tone, mixed with the right amount of mids, make the difference.



Fair enough, my powerball 1 is the "mk 2", so perhaps they did change something between those two lines. Either way, that would mean that this problem has been solved years ago, and it's time for people to stop blaming their amps. I've jammed with guys playing rectos, 6505s, and everything else that this board adores - I even change my settings all the time depending on what mood i'm in - and the powerball has never failed to remain full and present in the mix.

In fact, for shows I rely entirely on being able to hear myself. I found early on that relying on monitors and sound guys in general when playing small clubs and bars was a very bad plan, so I learned to just listen for myself and the drums. But then again, as I mentioned before I'm not playing a 9 string in drop X, so maybe that's the problem?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Sep 12, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> But then again, as I mentioned before I'm not playing a 9 string in drop X, so maybe that's the problem?



You have a point there..maybe that has something to do with it.,.although I play in drop D and never go lower..and I use a six string..so did the other guitarst who got drowned out.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 12, 2011)

^

Yea, I've definitely experience the phenomenon of being drowned out or drowning someone else out even though when we play individually we appear to be at roughly the same volume. 

Some amps just don't seem to gel well depending on the style of music.


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## jin (Sep 13, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Because the fire and powerball don't cut through when paired with other amps. I've used one and worked in a band with a guitarist who had one and my amp ate his alive without even trying. Many who say that speak from personal experience..and apparently even ENGL agreed because they had to revamp the line. I've also spoken to a few professional studio owners who also agree that the amps don't cut very well..I blame the equipment.
> 
> To the OP, some amps have more mids than others and just have a characteristic to the tone that for whatever reason just takes over the soundscape. Ever heard the thing about Rectos eating other amps in a band mix? Depth to the tone, mixed with the right amount of mids, make the difference.



so ENGL amps are improved now since they revamped their amps right? anyways now i can say that the mids are the most important part when trying to have a equal volume with other instruments ?


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## signalgrey (Sep 13, 2011)

the Genz Benz El Diablo 100 I have will drown out pretty much anything. I was playing with a dude who had a Mark IV and later a Triple and Dual Rec and even then it just wasnt happening for them. 

It just is...bigger...i dunno even at lower volumes its so full frequency, its not a good two-guitarist-band amp. Single guitarist...sounds amazing.


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## Sudzmorphus (Sep 13, 2011)

Powerballs dont cut through the mix? ok sure...I have one, jam with it with a band 3-4 times a week, if anything it drowns out the other amp.

Dimmu used them live for years too so take from that what you will.


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## jordanky (Sep 13, 2011)

I can say with 100% truth that I loved the tone of my Fireball 60, but I was barely keeping my head above water while jamming with my old guitarist using a Line 6 Spider Valve, you know, the Bogner designed one. Even with a Maxon OD-808 in front of it, and the mids cranked on the amp, it was still lacking midrange frequencies to cut with the other amp. Now my other guitarist runs a boosted Dual Rec, and my Engl had to go. I tried everything, but I just never could get it where I wanted it.


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## Iconoclast (Sep 13, 2011)

Cutting through is pretty subjective. 

You can define it has the way you sit in a mix (live or recorded), the space you take in a mix in term of frequency. Generally in musical industry, guitars have to pop out a lot and be in front of everything but it's not a golden rule you know. 

Because all instrument in a mix can't sit in the same range of frequency, it's the players job to define where he wants to. 
If you take a metal band with a big rumbling bass sound and triggered sizzlying bass drums, of course guitars will need a midrange focus to shine. But sometime you can cut through without a lot of mid if another instrument is here to fill the frequency.


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## Iconoclast (Sep 13, 2011)

Cutting through depends of what kind of music you play, your role as a player and your technique. Gear is here to help you reach the sound space you like. 

Maybe knowing what you want to do as a guitar player (rythm, lead, clean, style, effects, bass player gear and sound...) may help us figuring out which amp is able to give you the better result.


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## Philmorris (Sep 16, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> I would like to know how many people who propagate this myth about engls have actually used them? Or at least what kind of guitar/tuning combination is making this happen. With my 6 strings in standard, I have never had any sort of trouble "cutting through" whatsoever when using my powerball. I don't use a boost, mind you.
> 
> Engls aside, this whole "cutting through" stigma is just nonsense generated by boards like this one. One guy says engls don't cut, so the next guy takes it as fact and mentions it in the next thread, thereby exposing more people. Don't blame the equipment, blame the user.



amen to that. In my old band i was using fireball and other guitarist had 5150 and both our guitars were nicely heard.
Having experience with ENGL amps first hand i can honestly say that "not cutting thru" stigma comes from user error (and kids from harmony central forums).


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## Philmorris (Sep 16, 2011)

jordanky said:


> I can say with 100% truth that I loved the tone of my Fireball 60, but I was barely keeping my head above water while jamming with my old guitarist using a Line 6 Spider Valve, you know, the Bogner designed one. Even with a Maxon OD-808 in front of it, and the mids cranked on the amp, it was still lacking midrange frequencies to cut with the other amp. Now my other guitarist runs a boosted Dual Rec, and my Engl had to go. I tried everything, but I just never could get it where I wanted it.



No way in hell i can belive that. Your fireball must have some serious error.


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## Philmorris (Sep 16, 2011)

Sudzmorphus said:


> Powerballs dont cut through the mix? ok sure...I have one, jam with it with a band 3-4 times a week, if anything it drowns out the other amp.
> 
> Dimmu used them live for years too so take from that what you will.



To be honest...dimmu have some serious live sound problems. I saw them 3 times and guitars were no where to be heard. have no idea why.


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