# Alternate picking advice



## mindwalker (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey guys,

I decided to post a video of myself trying to do some alternate picking exercises (from John Petrucci's Rock Discipline). What I intend to do is to really show my problems and maybe take the word from more experienced players (you) to maybe point me in the right direction 

Any thoughts much appreciated!! Thanks for taking the time to read and watch!

Alternate Picking advice seek - YouTube


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## SirMyghin (Sep 22, 2011)

Holding your pick is fine, however is comfortable works best, you won't find any secrets there.


Your motion looks a little exagerrated, you are moving a bit far, and what is stranger is you are moving your fingers, thumb, and wrist. This could be alright, some players use their fingers extensively for picking, I personally do not. The less you move, the faster you are. You also appear to be picking some with your elbow sometimes, while some folks like to do it, any movement at the elbow is going to have to be much larger, so need that much more control. 

Descending your hands are out of sync some as there are large gaps between your notes, so you could work on that.

Don't hit the second string, only the string you want to play. This is another thing that may be linked to how far you are moving.


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## Winspear (Sep 22, 2011)

Watching your playing reminds me _very much_ of myself. Hand syncing sounds off even when playing slow, and this really becomes a problem when trying to play fast. You can't hear it as much when playing fast, but you can feel it and it slows you down. 
I see you anchor your fingers when ascending and don't remove them until you need them for the next string, which also doesn't help.
I'd put my alt picking on the exact same level as yours and these are the problems I have found with my playing recently.

This thread might help on the anchoring. http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/music-theory-lessons-techniques/171217-few-tips-legato-playing.html

Reading this is what made me realise what I was doing. And this quote says practicing this will help your syncing too;



Alberto7 said:


> Also, it must be noted that this specific type of legato helps your rhythm and right hand/left hand synchronization a whole lot! One has to be so accurate with the fretting hand to make sure every note sounds clear and even with the rest. Even Guthrie Govan himself recommends practicing this technique, even if you're not going to use it regularly... It just helps with your overall technique and playing.



So that's my advice to try and fix it, because that's exactly what I've started doing for myself in the past few days.


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## mindwalker (Sep 22, 2011)

Cool mate thanks for the hints! I've been looking at my own recording carefully as well and I do agree that descending isn't working the same as ascending and that sometimes I start to use the elbow which tenses up the arm and locks the oscillating movement of the wrist.

Also good to know that on the string skipping your supposed to be as precise as you can be... and you're right this is likely connected to big movements... when playing a bit more slowly I can hardly make short movements 

Still I'm trying not to focus exclusively on this stuff but I reckon this aspect of my playing hasn't really improved for quite a while so maybe it's good to go back to basics and focus on these things.. the sooner the better!!


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## mindwalker (Sep 22, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Watching your playing reminds me _very much_ of myself.



Good to know I'm not alone 

Just you want to start playing stuff that you hardly have the patience to play slowly but as you said (and it's true), it pays off to slow down otherwise if the road is bumpy you'll never get far.

However I don't anchor my fingers.. it may look like that from the point of the view of the recording though.

I'm going to also take your advice and spend time on legatto! That's another problem of mine... I suck at pull offs (specially descending on the neck using only hammer ons - pull offs... )


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## TelosHedge (Sep 23, 2011)

17 minute video? i applaud your thorough approach to this, but i have a few tips for you after only seeing a couple of minutes.

#1 - LOSE THE REVERB  
i know, this is kind of a joke, but not really. you're practicing, not performing. for me, reverb is beautiful. so beautiful, in fact, it makes me play better - uhhh, well at least that's what it feels like. in reality, it make me play worse. the more noise there is, the more there is to hide behind. i'm not against turning down the gain, either. even a clean sound can be useful. if you can't pick without being on the br00talz channel, you're not done learning! 

#2 - you're using the wrong body part.
i know, this is vague. what i really mean is the wrong body parts are moving. you are picking in a way where your fingers are actually doing most of the work. your thumb and index finger are 'swaying' up and down. basically now your poor fingers have 2 jobs - stabilizing the pick and creating the noise. your fingers should be locked almost. it's their job to keep the pick at the angle you need it at. you should be picking more with your wrist and/or elbow, depending on what you're looking for. if you divide the process of picking up between your elbow and wrist, you leave your fingers free to stabilize, which is what i think you're lacking the most. you have great tone. you have a great sense of time. it's just a lack of stability i see in your hands. 

#3 - anchoring can be bad
i say CAN BE because i dont want MAB fans to attack me with a blunt object. some people can make it work, but i find that anchoring creates problems when it comes time to move up and down stringsets - most people who anchor don't move their anchor along with their hands while they move up and down - it creates uncomfortable situations for the rest of your hand. i'm not saying it's definitely a problem, but try to eliminate it for a little while to see if it helps. do not just try this for 5 minutes, give it a good week or so!

#4 - make sure you play these drills with the same technique at any speed.
i did not look to far into your video, but consider this... is your picking technique changing depending on speed? are you tensing up at higher tempos? are you holding the pick with a firmer grip the faster you get? do you find yourself anchoring at certain tempos? all of these things make slow practicing USELESS if you're going to practice with different technique than your target tempo.

and now... (flamesuit on)

#5 - get rid of the jazz III.
ok, everybody fucking relax. i love JP, and MAB, but i think these picks can sometimes do more harm than good. i have rarely met anybody who plays well on these picks that would admit that they are so much better because of them. the smaller pick creates more tension to me. they are harder to hold. i don't want to scramble to hold my pick. i want the pick to be my friend. i admit, i love the texture and the thickness to them. if they made a jazz V and a half i'd be all over them. regardless, maybe try to go to a different pick just for a week or so to see if that helps you out. 

the ultimate rule for me and technique is always comfort. if a new technique doesn't feel adaptable, you won't ever follow through with it. take your time, try out everyone's suggestions, and let us all know what happens!


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## Solodini (Sep 23, 2011)

+1 to everything said so far. Especially Telos's mention of consistency at any speed. You mentioned that you find it difficult to make small movements at low speed. That seems to be the idea everyone else is pushing the most and I agree. Try to do it at the slowest tempo possible. Not 100bpm; around 40-60bpm. Get a macro lens on that shit. if it's something you cam do fairly easy at speed but struggle with slowly them imagine how easy it'll be once it's working for you at slow speed. 

In terms of the mention to try a different pick, give a Dunlop Big Stubby a try. Nice and big, has a dip for your thumb to aid grip and is rounded to make it glide easily. I've been loyal to them for 6 years.


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## mindwalker (Sep 23, 2011)

Wow guys I'm thankful for all the responses! Some great ideas there! 

@Telos

1) Reverb - you're totally right I should practice without it. I prefer to do it with a clean tone (or even unplugged if I'm waiting for the potatoes to boil lol), however I also find that sometimes it's good to practice with distortion so you can hear all the string noise problem as well and try to work on that too

2) You have a good point there. I think most of my finger movement comes from attempting to cross from one string to another which is also bleeding into the other movements.

3) I'm actually not anchoring but I'm pretty close. Sometimes I touch the strings with my pinky. I used to anchor and then I worked to not do it but I guess my fingers are still dangling which makes it look like I am. I tried Paul Gilber's curl the fingers inside hand position but it really seem to lose control that way.

4) You're right I think I'm tensing up at higher speeds and I'm using a different technique ascending than descending

5) I actually have LOTS of picks... I tried a few others but always end up coming back to the small Jazz III. For a while I was using a Jazz III XL but then after coming to the small ones I find it difficult to use others. I should try others for a bit longer and see how it feels..

@Solodini

yup... going to take your advice too and practice even more slowly using small strokes. I actually think I have a big stubby lying around somewhere... I definitely have a standard Jazz III stubby but again it feels a little small 

Side note

What do you guys think about this dude ? He mentions using 3 muscles (fingers, wrist and arm) depending on the situation... his technique looks incredible!!!

PICKING HAND alternate picking - how it works in my case by Dariusz Wawrzyniak (Darius Wave) - YouTube


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## TheDivineWing22 (Sep 23, 2011)

On the whole guitar pick debate, If you do try out some other picks and still want the Jazz III, try these. I can't stand to use anything but a Jazz III and these don't slip at all.


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## mindwalker (Sep 23, 2011)

TheDivineWing22 said:


> On the whole guitar pick debate, If you do try out some other picks and still want the Jazz III, try these. I can't stand to use anything but a Jazz III and these don't slip at all.



I actually use the Max Grip ones I just didn't mention it properly in the video! They do hold on great however I find that you regularly need to clean them cause after 1 week grime starts to build up and it looses quite a bit of its traction. The tip lasts quite a long time though!!


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## ShadyDavey (Sep 23, 2011)

I know Darius reasonably well and he's a very helpful musician as well as a very creative player - if you have questions about his micro lesson and want answers I'm sure he would take the time to assist if at all possible  

As far as your take on alternate picking I can only offer the advice that I would to anyone else:

Taking all of the above comments into account you simply have to find a method which works for you and that will entail a long process of elimination as well as being prepared to scrutinise your technique very, very closely. 

It's worthwhile to set aside some time to examine other famous alternate pickers and if possible look at segments from their instructional releases:

Steve Morse - Power Lines
Paul Gilbert - Intense Rock 1 and 2
John Petrucci - Rock Discipline
Al Dimeola - REH Master's Series
Shawn Lane - Power Licks and Power Solos

Don't expect to immediately jump in and play "Tumeni Notes" but learning picking exercises/etudes as well as being exposed to the intricacies of their playing techniques usually benefits any nascent shredder tremendously. 

If you can't find .pdfs I expect I have a few lurking about if you get desperate


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## mindwalker (Sep 23, 2011)

Hmm I gotta look into those instructional videos! So far the only one I really looked into was John Petrucci's.

It's just that there's so much going on... youtube competitions and such that you really want to improve quickly but well then again, I think on top of all that has been said, it's also a matter of personal discipline and routine. Instead of spending time lazying at home or watching a movie that could be better spent investing in some more guitar practice! I hardly play more than 1 hour per day... 2 hours being a good day so I guess nothing good will come out quickly unless I start doing it like 5-6 hours per day...

Breaking up with a gf would also help you getting some useful time for the guitar lol!!  Though I might leave this for the last resort..

Darius is a great guy.. he's always helpful when people write on his videos. very down to earth guy.


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## Maniacal (Sep 23, 2011)

I used to practice alternate picking only for 2 hours a day. It takes a lot of work to get comfortable with it.


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## ShadyDavey (Sep 23, 2011)

Maniacal said:


> I used to practice alternate picking only for 2 hours a day. It takes a lot of work to get comfortable with it.



Buy this man's books!!

Seriously guys I'm not just bigging him up for the sake of it - alternate picking is one of the many ideas he approaches and lays out complete practice regimes in a no-nonsense way.


Jonathan Strange - Riff Training Level 2 Review | Shred Reviews

Massively recommended. 



> Hmm I gotta look into those instructional videos! So far the only one I really looked into was John Petrucci's.



They're all good with slightly different approaches and that's quite often the key in my experience - finding the one method/pick/grip/style that gels with you and opens the doors.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 23, 2011)

I see too much movement. Try moving just your wrist and not anchoring your wrist so hard to the bridge. Some folks even pick from the elbow. This isn't a technique I was ever able to firmly grasp.


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## edsped (Sep 23, 2011)

Michael Romeo doesn't seem to have any problem using finger motion almost exclusively. 

Also I'm not sure what you mean about "moving the anchor," I'll sometimes anchor my pinky but I never move it; I just sort of open my hand a little more and allow my pinky to stretch out when moving to lower strings.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 23, 2011)

I and several other players I have observed anchor conditionally to fit the situation. Sometimes it's more comfortable/convenient to anchor my wrist and other times it just simply doesn't make sense to do it. But I learned when I could and couldn't do this by first learning to play w/o anchoring which was a very awkard process. This process also taught me minimalization of movement (which is something I still feel I struggle with although I see much improvement).


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## mindwalker (Sep 23, 2011)

but if you don't anchor the pinky or the wrist, what's then the contact point to the body of the guitar ? The forearm ? I see how that can feel awkward cause it'll certainly feel like you don't know where you are anymore


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 23, 2011)

You know? I never really thought about what the contact point was. If you play standing then the guitar obviously rests against your torso somewhere... I'll have to go home and play before I can give you an answer on that one for sure.


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## mindwalker (Sep 23, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> You know? I never really thought about what the contact point was. If you play standing then the guitar obviously rests against your torso somewhere... I'll have to go home and play before I can give you an answer on that one for sure.



lol you just made me think to myself.... the last time I stood up while playing the guitar with a strap was in 2009 and ever since I've been playing sitting down on my chair! It would be a really good experiment to see what happens if I try to play standing with the guitar strapped around me again.. 

Same way if I play sitting down I feel more comfortable with the guitar on my left leg.. I never seem to be able to play with it on my right leg and still go past the 12th fret


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 23, 2011)

I think when you sit down you're supposed to put it on your left leg if you're right handed. The bottom horn drapes over my left leg and the ass end of it sits between my legs when I play sitting down. And I hold it at a "half-way-to-activating-star-power" tilt.

Come to think of it... I think I *do* rest my forearm on the arm


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## TelosHedge (Sep 23, 2011)

edsped said:


> Michael Romeo doesn't seem to have any problem using finger motion almost exclusively.



just like MAB doesn't have a problem anchoring, either. just like JP doesn't have a problem using jazz III's. just like doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody! just like paul gilbert doesn't have a problem not doing any of these things.

it's all in the user. i'm just regurgitating my own findings for what seems to be the easiest way for most students i've seen. experimentation is key. nobody is beating up on anybody's methods. 

to the OP, if you'd ever like to set up a video chat i'd be very happy to help you out as best as i can. i'm not saying i'm a master of alternate picking, but if you can learn by showing us your errors, maybe i can help you out in the opposite way!


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## edsped (Sep 23, 2011)

My point was really just that finger motion is not a bad thing. Using your elbow to play fast stuff, now that's a bad thing.


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## TelosHedge (Sep 23, 2011)

i think using any one part of your body is going to be a bad thing. thats why i recommend trying to find a happy medium between using your wrist and forearm/elbow. an elbow or a wrist by itself is going to have major limitations fairly quickly, just like just using your fingers. i tend to shy away from the whole finger thing because they've already got the job of holding the pick in place, and sometimes moving it around for different things.


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## Santuzzo (Sep 23, 2011)

I haven't read through all the other replies, so what I'm saying here has probably already been said:

IMO most importantly take off the reverb/delay and SLOW WAY DOWN! 
With the chromatic type exercise you could start by picking each note 4 times and practice the exercise like that for a while, then each note 3 times , then 2times and finally each note just once. And do practice them SUPER SLOW!


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## EJA (Sep 23, 2011)

Echoing a few other people here:

Lose any and all effects. No need while practicing.

Switch your pickup selection to the Bridge. You want the sound AFTER the pick. Too much can be hidden in the darker sound of the neck. Again, this doesn't mean you must always switch to the bridge position for quick picking, but you want to develop no mental attachment to the pickup selector in terms of your technique. 

Your hand is a bit bouncy, which has also been mentioned before. Make it more like clock work, simple motions and try to keep a straight wrist. (I am terribly guilty myself of an angled wrist....trying to break that habit  )

I have the same picks as you do, and love em (just don't love that skin build up in the treads!). Try out a few other picks. Don't feel like you must own one single pick. I use a variety of different shapes, materials, thicknesses, etc. Sometimes I never even use a pick--you're not required to sign a contract binding you to one pick.

Your string skipping sounds nice, but let's target specifically what you want to work on. If it's strong alternate picking, don't bother with sweep/skip/economy etc methods. Focus on the alternate picking.

I'll get some heat for this...shut off the metronome. If you're struggling to keep up with that, it could be effecting your ability to deliver clean strokes.

Play a chromatic scale going through all six/seven. Tap your foot at the start of every string-no metronome. Focus on clarity.

Forget speed-You want clarity and articulation. If it means slowing down, slow down. 

Make it a mantra:
Clarity>Speed

After you get some clarity, tap your foot every two notes (in a chromatic exercise)

Once you have some clearer picking, then bring in the metronome.
Even if you have a metronome going, CONTINUE TO TAP YOUR FOOT.
Tap your foot anytime your playing. Tap your foot while listening to music. Build up your internal sense of rhythm. It's commonly overlooked.

Hope this helps! Good luck!


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## Solodini (Sep 24, 2011)

I disagree with foot tapping: you're subject to mechanical limitations of your ankle joint and your muscles. If they're tired/damaged and cannot tap then you'll be lost if you rely om that to keep time. Count in your head. The electrical signal is processed far quicker within the brain than the time it takes to send the signal to the foot, tap and bring the foot back up. You should cope much better if you count within your head. It will help you to be more conscious of what you're playing, as well.


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