# What are decent headless fanned fret guitars for 2021?



## trickae (Jun 8, 2021)

I'm looking to pick up a fanned Fret headless guitar soon having played Ibanez guitars for 25 years. I used to lurk here when strandberg just came out and mayones was picking up pre periphery days, but never took the plunge. 

I was leaning towards 
* Strandberg Boden 8
* Kiesel Vader 7 multiscale
* Mayones Hydra VF7


How have they held up? 

Do some of you find yourselves reaching for standard fret guitars or happy with the move to fanned fret. 

Which of the above would you recommend or have new brands and guitars come out?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 8, 2021)

Of those three, I'd just grab the Kiesel to your specs and be done with it. 

Strandberg quality is garbage unless you're looking at the J line and I don't feel the Mayones is that much better than the Kiesel considering price and options.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 8, 2021)

get the Kiesel if you just want something to try it out. doesn't seem like you're in the states so the return is a bit more complicated but it's still the easiest option unless a store near you has strandbergs in stock.

as for options in 2021...there are a lot. so many.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 8, 2021)

Seconded on Kiesel. They've essentially become the new iteration of the "just get a used prestige" where they're very good quality and usually at very solid prices.

Strandberg is a hard no from me. I had 2 os8s and a custom shop that were all mediocre at best, and the standards I've tried at guitar center were pathetic for their price point.


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## odibrom (Jun 8, 2021)

... errr, no love for Aristides? They also offer fanned headless guitars... quite awesome in my understanding...


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## Restarted (Jun 8, 2021)

Aristides H/0 100% of the time, every time time. 

I did not have to get used to the fan frets at all since the fan is not that wide and side dots are in the right spot when you look down. I recently played a friend's Strandberg and needed a few minutes to adjust.

Quality is Aristides quality. Perfection.

I've not been playing the rest of my guitars as much as I should since receiving the H/0, even though it's in drop C and a lot of my practice is in standard tuning. It is the most comfortable guitar I own, and the most fun to play.


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## maccayoung (Jun 8, 2021)

GOC is worth a look for a budget option. I have a 6 string GOC and it easily compares to the Strandberg (which I thought was overpriced). Kiesels are great too, I have a vm8.


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## oracles (Jun 8, 2021)

Strandbergs are hot garbage, and I personally won't give Kiesel a cent. The Mayones Hydra is a definite winner.


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## Triple7 (Jun 8, 2021)

I'd look into Ormsby. Amazing guitars.


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## littlebadboy (Jun 8, 2021)

I hate this thread. It's just giving me headless GAS.

I would like to own an Aristides one day when I can afford one. The resin body would be perfect for our Midwestern changing seasons.


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## Pietjepieter (Jun 9, 2021)

If I was looking for a headless fanned fret guitar I would defiantly check Aristides... i mean damn


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jun 9, 2021)

I'd say Kiesel Vader with the custom specs you like or Aristides if you have the budget.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jun 9, 2021)

Choosing a headless was tough for me because of some features/styles I wanted to have in there. If you're cool with the "headstock lopped off" look, there's a lot of choice out there. I wound up going Strandberg because there just isn't any other guitar quite like it, and I wanted what it offered.

The comments that Strandberg is just bad are inaccurate. It would be more accurate to say that their quality control does not match their price. I was really hesitant before making the leap, but as I said, there's no other Strandberg. I mitigated my risk by buying from an in-country dealer with a good return policy, and could see detailed pictures of the ACTUAL guitar before paying for it. I got a stunning guitar, all told, and after a neck relief adjustment it was ready to rock. If I didn't have that opportunity and I had to order from overseas sight unseen, I doubt I would have gone for it. The QC oversights, setting aside frequency data because we really don't have any, are really mystifying and totally unbecoming the brand and the prices they command. You can see some egregious examples of stuff missed at the factory/distributor/store over on r/Strandberg. Cover your butt and you can get a good one. FWIW, it looks like you have a local-ish dealer in Chipping Norton (The Tone Sanctuary), so you may be able to stop in and try one out in person.

If money were less of an object I'd have seriously considered the Mayones. I don't like the abrupt end to the neck, but they have an excellent reputation, the body shape looks killer, and I'd fully expect to get my money's worth. Ormsby is another great option for you seeing as you're not having to deal with international shipping. Their distance from me was the only real thing stopping me from giving them a whirl. Aristides is also a super cool option, as others said, if you've got the money. Only problem there for me is I can't un-see the smiley face on the body which is made exceedingly obvious by the top contours and slanted pickups. Sorry if I ruined it for anyone else...


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## SCJR (Jun 9, 2021)

It felt awkward at first but the more I played a multiscale the easier it became to go back and forth between fanned and standard. Seems counterintuitive but there you go.

As per my sig I play a Strandberg, not really going to dive into that one as there are plenty of threads here arguing the merits or lack thereof. Seems there are fanboys who can't find a single flaw in the entire line on one side and then those who were very hyped for them in the beginning and subsequently let down with the direction the company has moved in since and are very happy to talk about it lol. Be somewhere in the middle and find a used example that you like. They certainly hold value on the used market if you feel like playing roulette and don't fall in love with the neck shape or you just get a dud.

They also seem to be one of the few companies who are not satisfied with just cutting off the headstock and calling it a day aesthetically but that is hardly at the top of the list of priorities all considered. Beyond that I would say pay some attention to how drastic of a fan any one company implements as well as where the parallel or neutral fret lies. These along with scale length are going to be the main specs that will determine and affect comfortability as it relates to your body and your playing. IMO the whole point of headless design is supposed to be in the spirit of moving toward function over form anyway.


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## trickae (Jun 9, 2021)

Th


oracles said:


> Strandbergs are hot garbage, and I personally won't give Kiesel a cent. The Mayones Hydra is a definite winner.



Sounds good, there's one in stock locally so I can try one out. Having read through the thread....I'm leaning towards owning all 3 eventually.


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## SCJR (Jun 9, 2021)

Forgot to mention that if you're not too concerned with a wait period I think VanderMeij guitars are worth a look. From what I've seen there are positive experiences had by others on this forum and they seem to have fixed little things that others don't seem to like about headless guitars, particularly certain Strandberg design choices. Not something you'll probably see much of floating around in the wild so it's definitely a plunge.


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## I play music (Jun 9, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Of those three, I'd just grab the Kiesel to your specs and be done with it.
> 
> Strandberg quality is garbage unless you're looking at the J line and I don't feel the Mayones is that much better than the Kiesel considering price and options.


But the guy is from Sydney. It's debatable if Kiesel is an option within the US ... I would maybe prefer a Balaguer headless over there .. but definitely avoid Kiesel outside the US
I would go for Mayones or Aristides.


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## SCJR (Jun 9, 2021)

I play music said:


> But the guy is from Sydney. It's debatable if Kiesel is an option within the US ... I would maybe prefer a Balaguer headless over there .. but definitely avoid Kiesel outside the US
> I would go for Mayones or Aristides.


 
I think Kiesel just charges double the US shipping rate of $35 to ship overseas though I know he mentioned an increase on that coming down the line.

I see how buying guitars that have been shipped to dealers in Australia eliminates dealing with the fees of buying from dealers outside of AUS. But for a company that ships direct like Kiesel, are there other fees related to them shipping from the US as opposed to, for example, Aristides coming from The Netherlands? I'm not familiar with international shipping at all.


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## I play music (Jun 9, 2021)

SCJR said:


> I think Kiesel just charges double the US shipping rate of $35 to ship overseas though I know he mentioned an increase on that coming down the line.
> 
> I see how buying guitars that have been shipped to dealers in Australia eliminates dealing with the fees of buying from dealers outside of AUS. But for a company that ships direct like Kiesel, are there other fees related to them shipping from the US as opposed to, for example, Aristides coming from The Netherlands? I'm not familiar with international shipping at all.


I was more thinking about the risk to receive a not good guitar and Kiesel not accepting that fact, not paying for return shipping etc. 
Never heard anything like that about Aristides so I think they are safe


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## Randy (Jun 9, 2021)

Kiesel becomes more tempting option if you can find one second hand. Can verify condition of build (with better buyer protection via Reverb), save yourself $500 to $1000 or more, and you don't have to give Jef Kiesel your money.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 9, 2021)

I play music said:


> But the guy is from Sydney. It's debatable if Kiesel is an option within the US ... I would maybe prefer a Balaguer headless over there .. but definitely avoid Kiesel outside the US
> I would go for Mayones or Aristides.



Dude's looking used (sees: WTB thread in classifieds), so initial purchase is moot.


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## BradleyAllan (Jun 9, 2021)

Allot of good useful info / recommendations here in this thread. I’ve been playing Strandberg’s for the last two years and have really liked them. I do agree that there seems to be allot of QC issues that are just not acceptable, especially at the price point they sell for. And I would also say that the options for different wood choices and colors seems to really be lacking compared to their J series which sometimes carry triple the cost of an Indonesian made one. Because of that I’ve begun looking outside of the brand moving forward and just last week picked up a Abasi Master Series 8 which I’m quickly falling in love with (they also have QC issues, I think I just lucked out on one that’s seems really well built). But what I will say is that i really dig Strandberg’s design concept and how they use science to create a functional, ergonomic guitar. I have yet to find a headless that feels as good as a Strandberg in classical position. Not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found one yet. I’ve loved reaching for them everyday and haven’t had any issues *personally* other than both of them needing a full setup (which is to be expected depending on what your preferences are) and swapping out the pickups almost immediately after getting them. Having done that, they’ve been solid for me personally. But I emphasize “personally” because I’ve seen some pretty unforgiving examples online of horrendous oversights from their indo production line. I’m also very interested in a Aristides h/08 as everyone who has them seems to really dig them.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 9, 2021)

SCJR said:


> Forgot to mention that if you're not too concerned with a wait period I think VanderMeij guitars are worth a look. From what I've seen there are positive experiences had by others on this forum and they seem to have fixed little things that others don't seem to like about headless guitars, particularly certain Strandberg design choices. Not something you'll probably see much of floating around in the wild so it's definitely a plunge.


Not sure why you'd recommend a brand that


BradleyAllan said:


> Allot of good useful info / recommendations here in this thread. I’ve been playing Strandberg’s for the last two years and have really liked them. I do agree that there seems to be allot of QC issues that are just not acceptable, especially at the price point they sell for. And I would also say that the options for different wood choices and colors seems to really be lacking compared to their J series which sometimes carry triple the cost of an Indonesian made one. Because of that I’ve begun looking outside of the brand moving forward and just last week picked up a Abasi Master Series 8 which I’m quickly falling in love with (they also have QC issues, I think I just lucked out on one that’s seems really well built). But what I will say is that i really dig Strandberg’s design concept and how they use science to create a functional, ergonomic guitar. I have yet to find a headless that feels as good as a Strandberg in classical position. Not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found one yet. I’ve loved reaching for them everyday and haven’t had any issues *personally* other than both of them needing a full setup (which is to be expected depending on what your preferences are) and swapping out the pickups almost immediately after getting them. Having done that, they’ve been solid for me personally. But I emphasize “personally” because I’ve seen some pretty unforgiving examples online of horrendous oversights from their indo production line. I’m also very interested in a Aristides h/08 as everyone who has them seems to really dig them.


lmao "science"
Ola cut up a strat and slapped a 2x4 neck on it. He spent a lot of time prototyping and refining the design but that is far from scientific. He did make a half asses analysis of waveforms from differing types of wood and try to make an inference from that, but it's not really useful scientifically. 
The endurneck is a very crude way of forcing nonclassical players to keep their thumb in the middle of the neck basically. Not to mention they have horrendously blocky neck joint for upper fret access.


Guys like steinberger, parker, spalt, teuffel and toone were pushing the design/engineering aspects of modern guitars long before ola was. Putting the bridge closer to the ass of the guitar was done as far back as the 70/80s and is/was more prevalent with bass designs.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 9, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Ola cut up a strat and slapped a 2x4 neck on it.



For real. 

This isn't even conjecture, Ola posted everything in real time on his original EGS blog before "Strandberg Guitars" was even a thing. 

It's still out there.


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## SCJR (Jun 10, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Not sure why you'd recommend a brand that
> 
> lmao "science"
> Ola cut up a strat and slapped a 2x4 neck on it. He spent a lot of time prototyping and refining the design but that is far from scientific. He did make a half asses analysis of waveforms from differing types of wood and try to make an inference from that, but it's not really useful scientifically.
> ...



Not really sure what you're referring to? Are there VanderMeij horror stories I am not aware of?


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## jco5055 (Jun 10, 2021)

SCJR said:


> Not really sure what you're referring to? Are there VanderMeij horror stories I am not aware of?



not sure about horror stories, but Dave at EQ told me that he considers Vandermeij to be building in the "old school style" while he is part of the "new school/modern"...maybe someone who is a hobbyist luthier etc can detail what that would mean? As it's not like EQ is an Aristides using weird synthetics or injection molding etc


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## oracles (Jun 10, 2021)

SCJR said:


> Not really sure what you're referring to? Are there VanderMeij horror stories I am not aware of?



Every Vandermeij I've seen has been spectacular, and owners I've spoken to have loved theirs. Koen is a super nice dude, he definitely has the skills to be building. He did all his training at Aristides.


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## trickae (Jun 10, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Of those three, I'd just grab the Kiesel to your specs and be done with it.





diagrammatiks said:


> get the Kiesel if you just want something to try it out.





KnightBrolaire said:


> Seconded on Kiesel. They've essentially become the new iteration of the "just get a used prestige" where they're very good quality and usually at very solid prices.



Thanks guys, a second hand Kiesel's is high up on my list and has been for sometime.



odibrom said:


> ... errr, no love for Aristides? They also offer fanned headless guitars... quite awesome in my understanding...





Restarted said:


> Aristides H/0 100% of the time, every time time.



Sorry just haven't been a fan of Aristides, I tried a few in store and something about the feeling of food just did it for me. Though, i'll for supporting the company and their greener view to guitar buiding.



eclecto-acoustic said:


> it looks like you have a local-ish dealer in Chipping Norton (The Tone Sanctuary), so you may be able to stop in and try one out in person.
> 
> If money were less of an object I'd have seriously considered the Mayones.



This was incredibly insightful, thanks for the detail. Yes, I've been down to chipping norton countless times when getting my Cilia made. Back then wenge necks, front and back bevels and low neck heel profiles were non-exisiten, we pretty much came up with the CGA7 design.

I'll check out the tone sanctuary and there's a local Mayones Dealer at Industrie Music in Leichardt. I'm planning on ordering a hydra VF 7 from there. Plus owning a strandberg has been a dream of mine ever since Ola came out and only sold out of his custom shop. How much do they go for here?



SCJR said:


> It felt awkward at first but the more I played a multiscale the easier it became to go back and forth between fanned and standard. Seems counterintuitive but there you go.



100% agree. I think headless and fanned frets combined are a step towards more ergonomic designs, where really the guitar hasn't changed dramatically since the super strat days of the 80's. I've owned ibanez guitars exclusively over 25 years and found i've grown out of them. I'd pull my hair out if I ever had to setup a floyd rose again.

I sold my guitar collection and want to try a different direction with modern shapes and designs. I'll throw in a solar V and Explorer to the collection to support Ola Englund.


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## trickae (Jun 10, 2021)

I play music said:


> I was more thinking about the risk to receive a not good guitar and Kiesel not accepting that fact, not paying for return shipping etc.
> Never heard anything like that about Aristides so I think they are safe





Randy said:


> Kiesel becomes more tempting option if you can find one second hand. Can verify condition of build (with better buyer protection via Reverb), save yourself $500 to $1000 or more, and you don't have to give Jef Kiesel your money.



You guys have a valid point and I remember going through the threads where the founder himself came onto to defend the company. I'll definitely buy second hand as don't have the budget or time to wait on a custom design. I'd rather pick up a ready made one.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 10, 2021)

SCJR said:


> Not really sure what you're referring to? Are there VanderMeij horror stories I am not aware of?


not sure why you were recommending a brand that doesn't even make headless guitars in a thread about headless guitars


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## spudmunkey (Jun 10, 2021)

trickae said:


> I was leaning towards
> * Strandberg Boden 8
> * Kiesel Vader 7 multiscale
> * Mayones Hydra VF7



Have you thought about what you want to get out of multiscale? Because there are several different configucations there.

The Boden 8 only has a 25.5"-26.5" scale, with a neutral fret at the 7.

The Kiesel 7 is 25.5-27" with a neutral at the 9th. Compared to the Boden, i think they will play/feel much much different. At least the Boden would compared to the Kiesel and Mayones:

You get a longer scale with the Kiesel for your lower strings
The same scale and neutral fret on fewer strings, though, also leads to a more angled nut and less angled upper frets
the Kiesel's longer fan, even with the same neutral fret, also leads to a more angled nut.
a higher-up neutral fret, even with the same scale range, also leads to a more angled nut and less angled upper frets.
The Mayones 7 is almost the same scale range as the Kiesel, but the neutral/parallel location is the 7th fret, so the nut will be very slightly less angled than it, while the highest frets will be slightly more angled. I suspect that small of a difference though will be a bit harder to pit up on unless doing an side-by-side. Some companies jumped into the multi-scale pool with 12th fret (seems logical doesnt' it?) but depending on the scale range can be incredibly uncomfortable down in the lower frets with such a steeply-angled nut.


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## trickae (Jun 10, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> Have you thought about what you want to get out of multiscale? Because there are several different configucations there.



I tried baritone scales of 27" in the past and it just made soloing much harder. I wish I had tosin's finger strength an even a fraction of his scale. For extended range, I'd much prefer a multiscale. 



> The Boden 8 only has a 25.5"-26.5" scale, with a neutral fret at the 7.



I thought the Boden 8's go for 26.5" to 28.00". I know it's a bit more of a stretch but I'm willing to try it. I have big hands. I beleive a neutral fret on 12 makes it more extreme a stretch at the first fret and higher up right?

Right now i'm after the variety, the more differences between the instruments the better. I find the strandberg chambered body more light weight. The enduraneck is enticing and I think it'd change up my playing. 

The kiesel has the neck through design which stands out to me for more resonant and a fuller sound.

As long as they all sound different, bring something different to the table then I'm all for it. I'm rebuilding my guitar collection after a messy divorce so keen to get back into it.


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## spudmunkey (Jun 10, 2021)

trickae said:


> I thought the Boden 8's go for 26.5" to 28.00"



You know what? You're right. My mistake. I was reading too quickly and what i thought I read was the 7-string specs for the scale length. Sorry about that! Somehow I got the neutral fret right, but not the scale length.


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## SCJR (Jun 10, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> not sure why you were recommending a brand that doesn't even make headless guitars in a thread about headless guitars



That is my mistake, I've mixed up VanderMeij and Valravn.


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## asopala (Jun 10, 2021)

jco5055 said:


> not sure about horror stories, but Dave at EQ told me that he considers Vandermeij to be building in the "old school style" while he is part of the "new school/modern"...maybe someone who is a hobbyist luthier etc can detail what that would mean? As it's not like EQ is an Aristides using weird synthetics or injection molding etc



Not sure if he's referring to using CNC machines or the style of guitar. Old school I'd think like what Suhr does (though there's admittedly a bit of a modern flair, they are at the end of the day mostly strats and tele's). Eastwood would be even older school (read: 1960s). Vamdermeji doesn't give me that vibe. Neither does Valravn, for that matter.

He could be talking about something else entirely, idk. Might not be a bad idea to ask him for clarification.


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## jco5055 (Jun 10, 2021)

asopala said:


> Not sure if he's referring to using CNC machines or the style of guitar. Old school I'd think like what Suhr does (though there's admittedly a bit of a modern flair, they are at the end of the day mostly strats and tele's). Eastwood would be even older school (read: 1960s). Vamdermeji doesn't give me that vibe. Neither does Valravn, for that matter.
> 
> He could be talking about something else entirely, idk. Might not be a bad idea to ask him for clarification.



yeah I should have asked him, I know both use CNC so not sure exactly what he meant.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 10, 2021)

Neither vandermeji or eq have a headless model. So they are lumped in with parlor acoustic builders in terms of modernity in my book.


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## littlebadboy (Jun 11, 2021)

So in summary, what is the consensus on the best headless guitars?

The way I read from least to best:

Nk
GOC
Strandberg
Ormsby
Kiesel
Aristides

Right?

This thread gave me headless GAS, so I am looking for an affordable 6-string headless that is probably multiscale to replace my baritone to keep the low tuned strings with a better length and the high tuned strings at a more comfortable length.

I would love to have an Aristides but I can't afford it, but Strandberg is half the price. Are they really as negative as I have read around?


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## SCJR (Jun 11, 2021)

littlebadboy said:


> So in summary, what is the consensus on the best headless guitars?
> 
> The way I read from least to best:
> 
> ...




I've heard some issues arose with GOC's Guitarmory pickup run that didn't put GOC in the best light and it seems dealing with them can be a bit dodgy as well but that is just hearsay from reading around on here. I've never looked into them myself. I've read dealing with the owner of Ormsby can be hit or miss as well but again no personal experience.

I believe if Strandberg puts you off enough to stay away then Kiesel will most likely satisfy. I'm not sure if the fan implemented is a big deal to you but each manufacturer will vary on that of course. Ormsby being much more drastic than Strandberg, for example.


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## jayarpeggios (Jun 11, 2021)

Strandberg is amazing, bought two of them last year and they are by far the best guitars I've played or heard. QC can be a problem, but just return / replace if you get a dud.


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## trickae (Jun 12, 2021)

I appreciate the responses. I'm still partial to the strandberg and Mayones but will still get a kiesel once I found a few on sale locally.


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## RiksRiks (Jun 13, 2021)

trickae said:


> I appreciate the responses. I'm still partial to the strandberg and Mayones but will still get a kiesel once I found a few on sale locally.


I know there are mixed opinions on Ormsby, but in general I would dare to say they are solid. I have only heard about issues with pickups in the earliest runs and given that you are in Australia maybe you could try one out? I agree the fan is very wide, but what matters is if it fits your style or not. From the multi scales I own (Strandy, Ormsby and GOC) I feel like the one that adapts better to my playing style is the Ormsby.


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## trickae (Jun 13, 2021)

Thanks, I was exploring ormsby about 7 years ago, I'll check them out, had no idea they did headless now.


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## odibrom (Jun 13, 2021)

trickae said:


> Thanks, I was exploring ormsby about 7 years ago, I'll check them out, had no idea they did headless now.



Go 2nd hand, because there a few too many horror stories on custom support...

Personally, I find the Kiesel Vader hideous. As far as visual design goes, Aristides and Strandberg are the best, followed by Skervesen and Mayones. Strandbergs have been said to have relatively poor QC on their price range...


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## Ziltoid (Jun 13, 2021)

trickae said:


> Thanks, I was exploring ormsby about 7 years ago, I'll check them out, had no idea they did headless now.



FWIW, I've got 2 7 string Ormsby guitars, including one of the headless Goliath models and they've been great. They are both relatively early and I honestly haven't had any issues, had them for over a year now and have used one of them near every day.


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## trickae (Jun 13, 2021)

odibrom said:


> Go 2nd hand, because there a few too many horror stories on custom support...
> 
> Personally, I find the Kiesel Vader hideous. As far as visual design goes, Aristides and Strandberg are the best, followed by Skervesen and Mayones. Strandbergs have been said to have relatively poor QC on their price range...



Thanks, I found a qatsi deluge second hand, but it's been a challenge find a headless. There are some J series Strandbergs on ebay but hard to find the right one. 

I'll be honest the kiesel vader, I never liked the look but was taken by the price point and the neck-through design. It's hard to find other neck through headless guitars. 



Ziltoid said:


> FWIW, I've got 2 7 string Ormsby guitars, including one of the headless Goliath models and they've been great. They are both relatively early and I honestly haven't had any issues, had them for over a year now and have used one of them near every day.



That's good to hear. I'll see if I can make a trip to perth to give the goliaths a try.


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## Hoss632 (Jun 13, 2021)

trickae said:


> Thanks, I found a qatsi deluge second hand, but it's been a challenge find a headless. There are some J series Strandbergs on ebay but hard to find the right one.
> 
> I'll be honest the kiesel vader, I never liked the look but was taken by the price point and the neck-through design. It's hard to find other neck through headless guitars.
> 
> ...


There is also the Chris Letchford signature from Kiesel which is multi-scale and neck-thru. Maybe the shape is more to your liking. Pretty much just as customizable as the Vader is.


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## Nitro (Jun 15, 2021)

I can add another vote for Ormsby. The only headless or multi scale I've owned is my Ormsby Goliath GTR, but I tried out a couple of Standbergs in shops in the past. With Ormsby there's two ranges - the GTR production guitars built by World Music, and the hand built guitars. There's obviously a significant price difference, and most people will be looking at the World Music GTRs. My GTR is a really nicely built guitar (most of my other guitars are high end US and Japanese made guitars). The Ormsby has great fret finishing, good hardware, beautiful finish etc. The multi scale is fairly aggressive, but I didn't have any issues adapting to it quickly - and it's my go to 7 string now, even through all my 6s are straight frets.


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## littlebadboy (Jun 16, 2021)

I ordered an Agile Geodesic 62527. For less then $600. Let's see how it goes.


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## fabronaut (Jun 16, 2021)

Nitro said:


> With Ormsby there's two ranges - the GTR production guitars built by World Music, and the hand built guitars. There's obviously a significant price difference, and most people will be looking at the World Music GTRs.


They're also adding another price tier soon - GTI models, presumably at a specific factory selected in China / Indonesia to reduce the cost of labour while having similar / same appointments? hopefully it doesn't cut too many corners and is consistent. I've been eyeing the Korean made stuff on and off for ages. if I was more consistent with practicing and developing my skills, I probably would've jumped on one of the 7 or 8 Goliath or Hype models by now. (RIP wallet if they bring back the purple to pink colour shift paint job.)

apparently the GTI models will have an Evertune bridge option with a fan, neutral point at the bridge, much like the multi-scale Floyds that are out there. not sure if Evertune will bother prototyping a fanned variant of their bridge. there isn't really a de facto standard for scale length and neutral fret position. I assume production tooling may not be profitable unless someone hits massive success in volume sales or has an industry wide splash we haven't seen yet. think of the impact that Steve Vai's Universe / JEM models had for Ibanez -- that level of buzz. small companies have made their own custom tremolo variants but goddamn, are they ever expensive.

the GTR stuff will likely remain the price / performance sweet spot, as well made Korean guitars are stupid good from a consistency standpoint. I believe the Agile ones are mostly (all?) made in Korea. the LP neck through I have is well spec'd, it just weighs a ton. not too many Agile models kicking around here in Canada, probably b/c we get hammered with massive shipping and import / handling charges when it crosses the border. kind of a major piss-off when it's made overseas anyway, but what can you do.

anyone anywhere can make great guitars, provided that they know what they're doing and rigorously QC so nothing lacking leaves the shop. regional generalizations would be more accurately tied to specific factories / shops, but brands aren't likely to tell you where they're specifically made in case they switch or have competitors saturate the production queue.

in spite of the Jackson X Series DKAF7 multiscale (presumably Cort, made in Indonesia) having a disappointing fret dress / crown job that turned me off from actually playing the damn thing, it was nice to be able to try a fan fret guitar recently. I'll have one some day. maybe it'll be the first 7 string I own, who knows.  looking forward to hearing about more fanless stuff, will lurk and learn as I go!


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## DudeManBrother (Jun 16, 2021)

I’ve had 4 strandbergs and they were decent, save one that was quite nice. Nine of them can touch my Padalkas though. If you want a modern FF headless: that’s where I’d go.


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## bzhang9 (Jun 20, 2021)

how many strings?

I play primarily ibanez, tried a bunch of headless/multiscale. for 6/7 strings they don't play any better, probably worse, its just novelty and the different in tension is negligible to have much benefit. For 8 strings its probably worth it to try multiscale, as good as the MIJ Ibby 8s play.


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## trickae (Jun 20, 2021)

Thanks. I've played Ibanez guitars since 1995. I've played RG550's, Sabers, Jems, Jcustoms and Universe's but sold them a few years ago. 

I'm looking at playing mostly 7 and 8 strings. I found the 27" neck string tension too high for the high E and B strings, where bends felt too hard to pull off. I'd rather have the multiscale that's not too dramatic and have higher tension on the lower 3 strings and lower tension on the higher strings.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jun 20, 2021)

Recently, and due a couple of medium-range purchases (Agile Chiral, Ormsby Goliath), I'm now fully bought into the multi-scale design as the only logical option for 8-string and beyond (totally agree w/ Tosin ). Not just easier intonation, but the high strings sound so much sweeter, anyway, besides the point I'd like to make.

So, re the Agile Chiral, I was not only surprised by the specs (SS frets, 3-piece Wenge/Maple neck, ebony fb, Fishman moderns), but it was almost flawless, perfect fret endings, awesome back of neck satin finish, great fit & finish overall. My 2 minor gripes were the bridge saddles (adequate) but they recently changed the design, I got the old one, and I like to upgrade them (in the works). The other issue has to do w/ wiring, but that's a trivial fix. Overall, great experience there. I was terribly worried about the 28.5" inch on the bass side, but 30 mins. were enough to get me used to it.

Now, re Ormsby, I got a Goliath GTR black and white, here:




I was not prepared for this thing. First of all, it is chambered, so it weighs like nothing, but still sounds great. I like the neck pickup (Alnico II), bridge pickup is not bad per se, but definitely not suited for anything metal w/ 8-strings (no tightness/clarity on bass side), so plan on replacing it.
Everything else is perfect, fit/finish, SS frets, custom Hipshot hardware. This will definitely not be my last Goliath, already looking forward to current & future Goliath GTR runs.


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## Dayn (Jun 20, 2021)

trickae said:


> Thanks, I was exploring ormsby about 7 years ago, I'll check them out, had no idea they did headless now.


Yeah mate, if you're Australian, check out Ormsby's offerings. You'll have no problem enforcing your consumer law rights compared to overseas brands. I see all these interesting things here, but I always know that unless an Australian retailer sells it it's always a gamble.


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## Thaeon (Jun 21, 2021)

oracles said:


> Strandbergs are hot garbage, and I personally won't give Kiesel a cent. The Mayones Hydra is a definite winner.



I want Strandberg to be successful. Cool design. Interesting neck profile. They just have terribly inconsistent delivery with the exception of the J Series. I want one. But I also want it to not suck. Especially for that kind of money. Would love for prices to be more reasonable based on location of manufacture as well.



SCJR said:


> That is my mistake, I've mixed up VanderMeij and Valravn.



I was gonna say, VanderMeij makes so quality stuff. Though they don't get mentioned much around here.



Hoss632 said:


> There is also the Chris Letchford signature from Kiesel which is multi-scale and neck-thru. Maybe the shape is more to your liking. Pretty much just as customizable as the Vader is.



The Chris Letchford is a set neck. Not a neck through. One of the few Kiesel headless guitars I like the design of. Maybe the only one. I won't give them a penny though until Jeff steps down. I've also seen some issues with the way that the pilot holes are drilled for the nut/string locks at the end is splitting the wood. Looks like along the grain.

If I were looking at a headless design, I'd be looking at Padalka. Simon's guitars are unbelievably good. One of the few I'd put next to my Oni. Speaking of, I'd love for Dan to figure out how he'd like to address that situation. A headless Oni would be unreal.


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## Ben Pinkus (Jun 23, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> Neither vandermeji or eq have a headless model. So they are lumped in with parlor acoustic builders in terms of modernity in my book.



I swear I have seen a one off Vandermeij headless - but yeah the magistra is his main offering to my knowledge. 

I'd probably go Aristides out of the choices listed, some other options that I don't think have been listed: 

Skervesen 
Padalka


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## trickae (Jun 23, 2021)

Holy shit, I've just watched a padalka neptune - making of video. These look incredible. I don't know if I could ever afford it though, but it looks crazy good!


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## jco5055 (Jun 23, 2021)

Ben Pinkus said:


> I swear I have seen a one off Vandermeij headless - but yeah the magistra is his main offering to my knowledge.
> 
> I'd probably go Aristides out of the choices listed, some other options that I don't think have been listed:
> 
> ...



Yes a single Vandermeij headless model does exist, it was just a prototype/test though


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## Hoss632 (Jun 24, 2021)

Thaeon said:


> I want Strandberg to be successful. Cool design. Interesting neck profile. They just have terribly inconsistent delivery with the exception of the J Series. I want one. But I also want it to not suck. Especially for that kind of money. Would love for prices to be more reasonable based on location of manufacture as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah my fault on the misquote. Also I had forgotten about the issues with the pilot holes for the nut/string locks. Once you mentioned it I remembered seeing several things about that and remembered why I wasn't considering a headless from Kiesel any longer.


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## Thaeon (Jun 24, 2021)

Hoss632 said:


> Ah my fault on the misquote. Also I had forgotten about the issues with the pilot holes for the nut/string locks. Once you mentioned it I remembered seeing several things about that and remembered why I wasn't considering a headless from Kiesel any longer.



Hey, no harm done. We’re all trying to help OP out. Just wanted to make sure all the accurate info was there. I don’t know how often those pilot holes are having issues, but the ones I’ve seen are concerning enough. My main concern being is if those cracks extend into the area of the truss rod cavity. I don’t know that that could be repaired.


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## trickae (Jun 27, 2021)

I appreciate the help, thanks everyone.


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## jyym (Jun 27, 2021)

trickae said:


> I appreciate the responses. I'm still partial to the strandberg and Mayones but will still get a kiesel once I found a few on sale locally.


I have a headless 8 string on order from https://adversaryguitars.com/. All of the past customers I reached out to spoke very highly of his work, and I’ll post my own ngd when it’s done. Found out about him from a post by @KnightBrolaire


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## trickae (Jul 3, 2021)

Thaeon said:


> I want Strandberg to be successful. Cool design. Interesting neck profile. They just have terribly inconsistent delivery with the exception of the J Series. I want one. But I also want it to not suck. Especially for that kind of money. Would love for prices to be more reasonable based on location of manufacture as well.



I'm in touch with the Japanese Factory that can do J-series customs. I can forward you their contact if you're keen.


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## jco5055 (Jul 3, 2021)

trickae said:


> I'm in touch with the Japanese Factory that can do J-series customs. I can forward you their contact if you're keen.



made you saying you can order direct from them? If so I’d be curious also


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## jco5055 (Jul 3, 2021)

jco5055 said:


> made you saying you can order direct from them? If so I’d be curious also


Are not made


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## Ralyks (Jul 3, 2021)

Honestly, I've had 4 Strandbergs and I really dig them. Especially my Boden Fusion Neck-thru. Kind of my perfect guitar. The others are/were an Original 7, a OS7, and a Standard 7. No real complaints on any of them. Kind of want the Salen Jazz, and Metal 6 to put in D Standard/Drop C.

That said, I would very much like to try out a Kiesel Vader, and for shits and giggles, one of those new Ibanez headless guitars when they come out.


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## Thaeon (Jul 5, 2021)

trickae said:


> I'm in touch with the Japanese Factory that can do J-series customs. I can forward you their contact if you're keen.



yeah. Message me the info. If I’m going to go that route on a guitar (headless), I’d like one with a trem and multiscale. And I’d love to try that neck.


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## trickae (Apr 7, 2022)

Thought I'd give everyone an update. So I ended up getting a handful of the guitars I was keen to buy. 

*Strandberg Boden 8:* Strandberg lives up to the hype and plays incredibly well. The enduraneck is quite comfortable and didn't take much time to get used to. It's a bit thicker than I like at the lower frets but I love the thinner neck for the upper fret access. I loved it so much that I ended up getting a Prog 5 bass as well.

*Kiesel Vader VM8:* I also picked up a kiesel vader VM8 and got to inspect it before hand. Quality-wise it was immaculate with no defects. Honestly, the neck is more comfortable than the strandberg. The neck width is narrower and makes it easier to reach the 8th string and for doing runs up and down the fretboard. Also, the neck through design makes it even more comfortable past the 19th fret. 

*Mayones Hydra VF7:* I couldn't find a second Hydra VM7 but I'm assuming it'd be similar to my Mayones Duvell Qatsi 7 that I had sold last year.

I fell in love with Padalka so have gotten in touch with Simon, so will be able to place an order in 2024. 

Out of all the guitars, I found the Kiesel Vader VM8 the most comfortable to play. Though for meshuggah and modern metal, I prefer the longer scale length with the strandberg.


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