# Advantage of baritone over 7??



## BadBovineNickel (Feb 13, 2011)

I found an interesting baritone recently, but before I make the plunge I wondered if there was any difference in using a baritone over a 7 string? I mean, it's a 27" scale and I'm thinking I could put it pretty low, but I'm curious whether anyone has both and uses one for some things and not for others?? Just wondering...any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Eric Christian (Feb 13, 2011)

BadBovineNickel said:


> I found an interesting baritone recently, but before I make the plunge I wondered if there was any difference in using a baritone over a 7 string? I mean, it's a 27" scale and I'm thinking I could put it pretty low, but I'm curious whether anyone has both and uses one for some things and not for others?? Just wondering...any help is greatly appreciated.


 
27 is a Baritone...


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## johnythehero (Feb 13, 2011)

^pretty sure thats what he was talking about....
@topic a 7 string if its 25.5 inch sscale its just a 6 string with an extra string so you will need thicker strings for intontion or what not and the 6 baritone will allow you to tune down to the same tuning but will let you use lighter gauge strings if you can you can find a 7 string baritone and get the best of both worlds


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 13, 2011)

A baritone will play just like a 6, and it'll simply be a deeper pitched instrument. Good if you don't know if you can handle adding an extra string or if you just want to play lower and not lose tone and clarity. Whereas a 7 can be in the same range, but all the six string chords you learned will be at the same pitch as a 6 string in E. That extra string can open up some chords that'd be impossible for a six stringer. All the chords on a baritone will be lower pitched and be in the same shape as you learned on your 6. Scale length matters too though. If the baritone is 27" and the 7 is like 25.5" then you should be sure to consider that the 7 will have heavier strings than the baritone and the baritone will have thinner strings and more clarity. Other than that, they occupy the same range as far as standard pitch goes, but the seven has an extra high string, if that does anything for you. A lot of the baritone vs 7 string argument depends on what you plan on doing musically with that instrument, man.


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## BadBovineNickel (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for the replies! Yeah, I guess I'm interested in making heavy, dark riffs. And I was wondering whether people sometimes use both for different reasons, or whether if you have a 7, you don't normally have a baritone. Is that fair to say?

I don't mean to start an argument, just curious about what people use and why.


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## jymellis (Feb 14, 2011)

i have a baritone 7, i also have 25.5 7s, and 25.5 6ers. just depends on what i want to play at the time.


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## aslsmm (Feb 14, 2011)

i had a baritone 6er but i only used it tunned to Bb drop tunning. i actually never used it. it sounded ok. 7 is IMO always going to beat out a 6 due to the extra string. no matter what tunning your in you will always be able to go higher or lower than the baritone.


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## drmosh (Feb 14, 2011)

I think you have a fundamental confusion what a baritone scale does to a guitar.
You can of course have a baritone 7 string too and nothing is stopping you tuning your standard scale 6 to B, which will be basically equal to a standard scale 7 aside from missing the high e.
Baritone gives you extra string tension which helps with the low tunings, a standard scale 7 string does not.


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## BadBovineNickel (Feb 14, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> If the baritone is 27" and the 7 is like 25.5" then you should be sure to consider that the 7 will have heavier strings than the baritone and the baritone will have thinner strings and more clarity.





drmosh said:


> I think you have a fundamental confusion what a baritone scale does to a guitar.
> 
> Baritone gives you extra string tension which helps with the low tunings, a standard scale 7 string does not.



Thanks again for all the help and info. 

And yes, just when I thought I was understanding, the two statements above seem contradictory. But maybe not? 

Doesn't sound like there is anything I could gain from a baritone that I couldn't get from a 7??

Again, I'm looking for clarity and precision with low tuned metal riffs. I know most of that is going to be up to me two paws, but it doesn't sound like there is any real advantage one over the other, just different tonal characteristics? Or is that even doubtful?


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## elrrek (Feb 14, 2011)

BadBovineNickel: I think you have missed what drmosh said. One of the perceived advantages of the longer scale baritone neck length is that it gives notes more of a ringing tone, which in your case could well provide the clarity and precision that you are looking for.

For example, I have a very dark (almost muddy) sounding 28 inch scale Ibanez MMM1 tuned to a low F and a very bright sounding OLP with a 30 inch scale length that was also at a low F. The two guitars have completely different constructions and woods but it is the extra scale length on the OLP that produces might brighter notes. To further back this up, I have the OLP tuned to D right now with 11s and it cuts like a razor on glass.


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## ixlramp (Feb 14, 2011)

There is a big advantage to a longer scale ... clear, rich, harmonic tone. How about a long scale 7 string?


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 14, 2011)

If you want clarity and precision, you *need* an extended scale for lower tunings. Thicker strings will get you the same tension you might get on a longer scale but your tone will suffer. Things (from my experience) tend to get muddier the thicker your strings are and the lower you downtune. Pickups can make a big difference too when it comes to alternate tunings but downtuning is best with an extended scale, no doubt about it. If you think your hands can handle stretching, it's definitely the best option. Now, imo, if you could find a baritone scale 7 string, you win. You'd have clarity, lowness and tension all on one guitar. It'd make things simpler for you, and wouldn't stop you from jamming out with your buddies if they happen to play in like D or Eb or something, cause let me tell you from experience it's not fun to transpose everything up as you play it! I'd look into a guitar like ixlramp mentioned. If your hands can handle a baritone scale (sounds like they can) then it's your best bet. 

If you go very extended, like a 30" scale like i'll be, you should also consider that your top strings might get more clarity than you wanted. It gets kind of eerie sounding after a certain point. But that's not really a big issue for lengths under 28"-ish I believe.


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## mountainjam (Feb 14, 2011)

Whoever said having the ability to play the same chords you know on a sixer on your seven, is spot on. I personally feel that the wider seven neck feels more natural as well, compared to a six string.


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## gr8Har V (Feb 14, 2011)

get a 727 @ rondomusic.com baritone 7 that is still great at standard tuning. i think a baritone 6 cuts off too much of the high end range to make it worth purchasing because personally, i'd rather extend my range through adding an extra string than tuning the normal 6 down so low you have to play a solo in 17th position to have the same sound as a normal tuned guitar in 12th position (give or take).... 

with a 727 if you wanted Bb standard you would tune it down a half step, whereas on a 627 it would be down 3 whole steps. i think realistically a 727 could get you as low as F if you wanted (although i think its unnecessary.....such thick strings...) a 627 would be a unique instrument to bring out lower chords (like in Bb an open E would be Bb obviously) and i think there are a lot of opportunities, but there are many more on a 7. especially a 727


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## Eric Christian (Feb 14, 2011)

BadBovineNickel said:


> Doesn't sound like there is anything I could gain from a baritone that I couldn't get from a 7??


 
I think you're a bit confused. Stop thinking about the amount of strings for a second. Instead focus on the scale length. Typically anything around 26.5 and up is considered a Baritone Guitar regardless of how many strings it has. ESP/LTD made several models of 8 string guitars that were standard 25.5 scale length so they wouldn't be considered Baritone Guitars. Neither would any of the numerous 7 string guitars that have a 25.5 inch scale length. On the other hand Ibanez and Fender and others make 6 string guitars that have a longer scale length and are considered Baritone Guitars. If you want to tune down low get something between 27-30.


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 14, 2011)

27" and above are baritone. 26.5" is just extended slightly. And to the OP, yeah. A 7 string with an extended scale would blow the balls off any 6 string baritone. But a 25.5" 7 string against a 6 string baritone is a matter of tonal preference. A baritone would have more clarity and possibly tension, depending on string preference, regardless of how many strings it has.


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## drmosh (Feb 15, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> If you want clarity and precision, you *need* an extended scale for lower tunings. Thicker strings will get you the same tension you might get on a longer scale but your tone will suffer. Things (from my experience) tend to get muddier the thicker your strings are and the lower you downtune. Pickups can make a big difference too when it comes to alternate tunings but downtuning is best with an extended scale, no doubt about it. If you think your hands can handle stretching, it's definitely the best option. Now, imo, if you could find a baritone scale 7 string, you win. You'd have clarity, lowness and tension all on one guitar. It'd make things simpler for you, and wouldn't stop you from jamming out with your buddies if they happen to play in like D or Eb or something, cause let me tell you from experience it's not fun to transpose everything up as you play it! I'd look into a guitar like ixlramp mentioned. If your hands can handle a baritone scale (sounds like they can) then it's your best bet.



You don't "need" anything. A lot of bands do just fine with standard scale for lower tunings and if you have a 7 string with a long scale the longer scale will affect the timbre of the higher strings too so that is another thing to consider.


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## drmosh (Feb 15, 2011)

BadBovineNickel said:


> Thanks again for all the help and info.
> 
> And yes, just when I thought I was understanding, the two statements above seem contradictory. But maybe not?



I don't see anything contradictory in those posts you quoted. By standard scale I meant 25.5" i.e. a 25.5" 7 string doesn't give you more tension with thinner strings, neither does a 25.5" 6 string. A baritone (27"+) 6 or 7 string will give you more tension and clarity on the low strings, but sacrifice some "sweetness" on the higher strings


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## BadBovineNickel (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the replies and clarity! I appreciate it and understand now. Now, if you guys can help me lift the veil of confusion surrounding shit my wife does...


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## jymellis (Feb 16, 2011)

BadBovineNickel said:


> Now, if you guys can help me lift the veil of confusion surrounding shit my wife does...


 
been married 14 years. cant help ya there. bitches is


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## Evil7 (Feb 16, 2011)

I just want to post my simple view of the topic...

Having a baritone scale means you can tune lower and still have string good string tension.

Because the longer the neck/scale is = Tighter Strings in your favorite low tuning.
If you like to down tune low and want to avoid floppy or loose strings.. Go Baritone.

You can also get tighter strings in low tunings by getting larger gauge strings
Thicker strings = tighter string tension in lower tunings as well.
But... a small scale with thick strings can sound muddy in the low notes / chords.

If you like to play low.. I would advise the Baritone Seven String as someone advised before. You can tune low and still have tight strings and clear notes .. Plus be in proper intonation.

EDIT... I think a baritone Six String is useless when a seven string guitar exists. 
But oddly I dont think a seven string baritone is useless when an Eight String Exists...


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## Bucky Goldstein (Feb 18, 2011)

Howdy, I'm new here and this thread got me confused

I've been looking at seven string guitars and thought if you got one in a 25.5" scale, you could just have a low B on the thing and everything else would be the same as my sixer... strings, tuning, chords... just a extra low string above the low E

am I wrong about that?

what does Vai do? does he use non standard tuning on his Universe?


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 18, 2011)

No, that's correct. I'm pretty sure Vai uses a high A but i'm not *totally* sure, i'm not too big on Vai. 25.5" works for 7's but depending on your tastes, it might not be ideal. The tone wouldn't be as clear as say, a 27" 7 or something like that. It's all a matter of preference. And yeah, a 25.5" 7 is just like your six strings, but with an extra low string. Doesn't change anything about the top six, just gives you some extra options!


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## Bucky Goldstein (Feb 18, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> No, that's correct. I'm pretty sure Vai uses a high A but i'm not *totally* sure, i'm not too big on Vai. 25.5" works for 7's but depending on your tastes, it might not be ideal. The tone wouldn't be as clear as say, a 27" 7 or something like that. It's all a matter of preference. And yeah, a 25.5" 7 is just like your six strings, but with an extra low string. Doesn't change anything about the top six, just gives you some extra options!



thanks! and that's the part I don't get... about the 25.5" not being as clear as the 27"

if I tune in standard tuning and throw nine's on it and a low B string, it's gonna be just as clear as any other six string, no?


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## All_¥our_Bass (Feb 18, 2011)

^Yes, and the seven should be just fine in B,Bb or A with proper strings and setup.
It will be just as good sounding as the six.

The clarity thing is more a problem when you want EXTREME down tuning or you find yourself using bigass strings for your desired pitch and string feel and notice the tone is getting murky (like using a 110 bass string for your low F.  I have done this-not the best guitar tone, if I say so myself ). Longer scales sound "crisper" and handle Ab/G/F#/F/lower much better.

Also, some people just like the tone of longer guitars even though they are only tuning to B.


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 18, 2011)

Um, well generally a longer scale length means more clarity. Like my Agile 830 (30" scale) will have a much more clear tone than my 25.5" BC Riches. String gauge effects it slightly too. People like to say "Thinner strings = Better Tone" a lot, and a longer scale means you may use thinner strings in the same tunings as well! I'm not sure if this is absolutely true but generally a long scale length will mean more clarity and thinner strings will too. And I don't mean note definition, it's like less warmth to the notes. They lose a certain "fatness" in tone with longer scales.


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## caparison_x (Feb 19, 2011)

Basically its tension. 
Low B with a regular pack of 9's for 7 strings is a little floppy and not really tight.
The baritone tunes to B with a regular pack of strings and sounds tighter with more definition of the lower notes.


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## rug (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a baritone guitar (Ibanez MMM1), and just recently bought my first 7 string, the Stephen Carpenter 607B - it's a 7 string, only baritone scale length. My main band, I need the range of the 7 string, but for my side project where it's just big dumb detuned metal riffs, the baritone 6 is pretty nice. As others have said earlier in the thread, the baritone scale length allows the super low notes to stay nice and in tune, even when you beat on the strings. I've always been sort of a nerd about having nice thick strings (used to play on .14s tuned down a half step), and both the baritone 6 and 7 allow you to have thick strings without really killing your tendons, and you don't have to sacrifice clarity to detune. 

My low string on both is G#, if that interests you at all. You should probably just get both, like I did.


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