# Apparently groove metal isn't metal, according to this guy...



## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

"Groove Metal" is not Metal! â Group at Last.fm

... what?


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## FredGrass (Jul 23, 2008)

I hope that guy kills himself quickly.


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## Mr. S (Jul 23, 2008)

ahhh, the internet... a veritable soap box for peoples strange/stupid/idiotic opinions.

Incidentally, did you know that every pope since 1054 has actually been two badgers one on top of the others shoulders? This is my opinion, but I'm on the internet so I'm stating it as fact... Much like that dude you linked


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

if only it were true


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## BigBaldIan (Jul 23, 2008)

Brilliant another self-proclaimed elitist expert. 

Sarcasm aside there's been that much hybridisation between genres especially with bands trying to sound that little bit different from their peers that attempting to pigeon-hole is an exercise in futility.

YMMV, just my two cents.


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## Uber Mega (Jul 23, 2008)

What's funny is that he's a member of the "Open-minded Metalheads" group


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)




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## Groff (Jul 23, 2008)

Iron Maiden and Judas Priest aren't metal either!

/sarcasm


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## Mr. S (Jul 23, 2008)

Mattayus said:


>



though to be fair he made the group today... but still, my point stands:


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## Metal Ken (Jul 23, 2008)

Way to beat a dead horse. The whole "groove" thing died after all the thrash bands that failed at it broke up.

1997 wants their angst back.


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

i think 'groove' metal is a daft generalization anyway. Most if not all metal has some groove to it, typically


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## shaneroo (Jul 23, 2008)

these people thrive on attention. don't give it to them.


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## Metal Ken (Jul 23, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> i think 'groove' metal is a daft generalization anyway. Most if not all metal has some groove to it, typically



Maybe true. However, generally this term was generally applied to craptacular bands like Machine Head, Sepultura's "Roots" era, Forbidden's last album or two, Korn (initially), etc. Stuff that was focused on "Jumping Da fuck up" as it were. 

I always just called it "Crap".


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## BigBaldIan (Jul 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> Maybe true. However, generally this term was generally applied to craptacular bands like Machine Head, Sepultura's "Roots" era, Forbidden's last album or two, Korn (initially), etc. Stuff that was focused on "Jumping Da fuck up" as it were.
> 
> I always just called it "Crap".



Don't hold back, speak your mind.......

Hated Green but really liked Forbidden - Distortion.....


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> Maybe true. However, generally this term was generally applied to craptacular bands like Machine Head, Sepultura's "Roots" era, Forbidden's last album or two, Korn (initially), etc. Stuff that was focused on "Jumping Da fuck up" as it were.
> 
> I always just called it "Crap".



Oh i know it was technically a genre of its own, but i'm just saying... give it a different name.

On the other hand, i've heard the whole 'math' thing like Meshuggah referred to as groove, which is more fitting than the early 90's classification i think


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

exactly. I mean he is right to some extent, like you say, but he's got some bands in that list that completely don't deserve to be


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## FortePenance (Jul 23, 2008)

What defines metal nowadays anyway?


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

can o' worms there bro...


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## noodleplugerine (Jul 23, 2008)

Heh, reminds me of this argument...

miracle man doing what it's made for: METHUUUUUULZZ

According to him - Meshuggah isn't metal...


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

oh god


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## FredGrass (Jul 23, 2008)

noodleplugerine said:


> Heh, reminds me of this argument...
> According to him - Meshuggah isn't metal...



I just was sick on myself.


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## darbdavys (Jul 23, 2008)

what a dumbass


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## Kakaka (Jul 23, 2008)

If Manowar is metal, I DON'T want to be metal...

I'd rather be nice music.


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## UGH (Jul 23, 2008)

15 year olds that think they know everything, FTW!


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## Mr. S (Jul 23, 2008)

Some people are so busy trying to analyse everything on order to define or pigeon-hole bands that they just miss out, Im not a big fan of metalcore but theres a few of bands I really enjoy from that scene, equally I dont like Nu Metal yet I grew up on Korn and will still listen to several bands from that genre occasionally.

People need to stop looking at things in black and white purposefully looking for things to hate, just enjoy what you enjoy and leave what you't to those who do enjoy it instead of spending energy preaching how you hate so and so.

In closing...


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## Mattayus (Jul 23, 2008)

its the pope!!!


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## Carrion (Jul 23, 2008)

There is quite a lot of these obscure Last.fm groups. There was a group dedicated to boycotting Israeli metal.


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## noodleplugerine (Jul 23, 2008)

Carrion said:


> There is quite a lot of these obscure Last.fm groups. There was a group dedicated to boycotting Israeli metal.



Ooooh link - 100% agree with that.. Impossible to buy oranges in fruit/veg in Sainsburys...


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 23, 2008)

i don´t feel like i´m listening to metal these days... i´m listening to "metal-oriented music" or "music that is heavy". i don´t feel a need to generalize things, genre-wise. some bands fit perfectly in the "metal" category, but i don´t like sub-sub categories very much. i like to categorize by feel/intent. i´d say meshuggah is hypnotic mind-bending heavy music, for example. then there are epic storytelling-type bands, there are messy-dirty-filthy heavy music...

i don´t really care about genres anymore. music can be in any genre ever as far as i´m conserned, as long as it appeals to my standards.


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## WillingWell (Jul 23, 2008)

Eh, I would somewhat agree with that author on the bands he would listed. There's quite o' few less than stellar bands on that list.

However, "groove metal" is just another BS subgenre like "viking metal" and "post-thrash hardcore super deluxe blackened grvm metal"


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## S-O (Jul 23, 2008)

Meh, metal to me just means at point you use brutal amounts of distortion.

I really don't care whether a song has a breakdown or not, or if it has a clean/dirty vocal line, downbtuned 6, 7, 8 or uses some obscure celtic instrument.

I don't dislike a band because they are metalcore/deathcore/grindcore/whatevercore, I dislike it because it sounds liek shit to me. I am not an avid fan of the people who are called metal/deathcore, but I do dig some of the bands. I saw Emmure(sp?) live, they were pretty cool. Despised Icon are cool too. I think Job for a cowboy sounds like shit in a blender that is in a microwave which is in an oven. Bring the Horizon are weird, but tolerable. Born of Osiris are pretty cool. 

I try not to hate a band because they are from a certain scene or label, but I hate them because they sound like shit to me.

Also the fascination with 60s/70s bands like ACDC and led zeppelin is weird. I enjoy gettin the led out every now and then, but I don't liek ACDC.

Music is no different than any other art or media. Some people dig Van Gough, others like Rembrant.


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## Zak1233 (Jul 23, 2008)

he sounds like a fuckin retard :/


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 23, 2008)

That dude's an idjit.

And irrelevant.


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## Naren (Jul 23, 2008)

People like that are really weird.

"So, you're saying I don't play metal? And that I haven't been playing metal for the last 7 years? "
"Fuck no, dude. You've been playing a bastardization of hardcore, industrial, and poppified hard rock."
"But I don't even listen to any hardcore, industrial or pop rock bands."
"Fuck, man. You know you do. The genre you play is known as hardcore pop rock."
"So I play a genre that I've never even heard of?"
"That just means you're ignorant. You don't have to know you're stupid to be stupid. Bands like you are influenced by bands like Sick of It All, The International Noise Conspiracy, Burden On Mankind, and so on."
"Who? I've never heard of any of those bands."
<dude snickers> "Whatever, man. I can't believe you thought you were metal. Hell, for all I know, you STILL think you're metal."
 "Uh, I'm gonna go now. My band has a show at Death Metal Fest 2008, promoting our album that was released on SpeedMetal Records and has a song featured on the Extreme Metal Underground 2008 compilation album."
"Dude, none of the bands on that album are metal."


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## FredGrass (Jul 23, 2008)

Haha, love the dialog. Pretty much nailed the know-it-all cunt's script. Made me giggle.


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## Ancestor (Jul 24, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> 1997 wants their angst back.



That is fucking funny. 

But the groove is where it's at, baby.


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## omentremor (Jul 24, 2008)

i'm so sick of small minded idiots who get off on despising bands, probably cause they read that they should on ultimateguitar.com. I have a few mates that think i'm retarded for being a fan of lamb of god and machine head and still worshipping guys like vital remains, cryptopsy (that last album never happened) and arsis. People that decide one specific sub genre is crap amaze me, especially the lengths they will go to to defend a band they like that belong to it. For instance the incredible anger induced from a guy because darkest hour apparently are completely melodic death metal and have nothing to do with metalcore.


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## Ancestor (Jul 24, 2008)

It reminds me of the word "rock". Soft rock, hard rock, dirt rock, classic rock etc. The more I think about the word "metal", the more it starts to lose its meaning. 

One thing I do know, and I fucking love it, is that metal has final become a recognized genre like blues or classical. We've always known that, but I think the rest of the world is starting to get it too. There are now all these guys who have been playing for the last 30 years... it's so inspiring.


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## budda (Jul 24, 2008)

Lamb of God is

a) bad
b) groove metal?

i clearly missed a memo!


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Haha, a whole topic dedicated to making fun of me!  I am honored.

I will admit, a friend of mine who also does not like Groove Metal pointed out that I was in error, because unlike Nu-Metal, which is generally based on downtuned, chugging modern hard rock, Groove Metal is based on slower, more simplified thrash. So, GM is a valid metal genre, according to my friend, because it is based around the regular metal aesthetics.

But, my observation that GM is not Metal is based less around aesthetics, and more around a.) The fact that I find GM is weak and a bit whiny, on the whole. b.) I cannot count how many people I've met who only listen to angry groove metal about being picked on as a kid and wanting to beat people up. I play them Necrophagist and they say it'd be great, if only the vocals where done by the vocalist of Lamb of God. I play Blind Guardian and its "gay" because they incorporate theatrics and high pitched vocals into their music. I play Immortal and they say its just "noise" and make fun of the vocals.

And what other metal do these GM fans enjoy? Its always the most mainstream and broadly accepted bands. I like Slayer, Metallica and Black Sabbath as much as the next person, but these bands have transcended the metal underground. They are the exceptions, not the rule. On the whole, metal is meant to be underground and is not meant to be broadly accepted by the masses.

So, this is my reasoning behind saying that people that listen only to Groove Metal and the most mainstream Metal bands outside of Groove Metal are not true metalheads. Based on aesthetics, Groove Metal fits as an acceptable genre of Metal. I guess I must admit this. But there's still something about it that just seems so false to me. One person pointed out that I was in the group 'Openminded Metalheads.' Well, I have found metal bands that I love from practically all genres (black, death, folk, power, thrash, gothic, doom, traditional, grindcore), and all of the subgenres of those genres (brutal death, raw black, symphonic black, tech death, Gothenburg, horror metal, goregrind). But, Groove Metal is the one exception. There is nothing within the realm of Groove Metal that I enjoy at all, and a number of my friends in the underground metal scene feel exactly the same way.

Well, I'm sure I've made worse mistakes than basing my opinions of my own feelings and personal experiences and turning it into a Group on Last.FM for like-minded individuals. I may be the only member, but I created the Group about, uummm....2 days ago. 

No offense meant towards anyone, even those who are fans of Groove Metal. In the description, I note that we can still 'bros.' Anyways, there's my defense, for what its worth.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Okay, but why do you even care dude? Since when are there rules to music, and since when does everything have to fit into a certain genre, image, or popularity level? This viewpoint really makes little sense to me.

Genre labels, to me, serve only the purpose of identifying how a band sounds, not what rules it has to adhere to.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

I know, to each his/her own. I just strongly dislike the genre and feel like the majority of people that I meet that like bands out of the genre are completely close-minded to the rest of the metal underground.

To me, the metal underground is sacred. I don't think I could explain exactly why I feel that it is, but I do. Groove Metal and its fans, from my own experiences, are not only misrepresenting metal as a whole, but are also contaminating the underground by turning it into another trend. The Groove Metal scene feels like nothing more than a trend to me; just like the Deathcore scene and the Nu-Metal scene. To me, that renders it as false metal.

I guess I can't explain why I care. Honestly, I don't care as much as you may think I do. I mean, the Group was created more as an excuse for me to be silly and mock-elitist. And I don't judge people based solely on their music taste. I hope I get the same courtesy here, and am not judged solely on my opinions regarding Groove Metal.

But ultimately, I hope no one takes any of this all that seriously. We are on the internet.


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## Spoongirl (Jul 24, 2008)

wow I didn't even know that there was an actual "groove metal" genre going on... so, are those bands grrrrooove metal?


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Well, I guess I shall just deem you "fuck nugget" then and go about my day.  


Hi Paulina!


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## Spoongirl (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> I know, to each his/her own. I just strongly dislike the genre and feel like the majority of people that I meet that like bands out of the genre are completely close-minded to the rest of the metal underground.
> 
> To me, the metal underground is sacred. I don't think I could explain exactly why I feel that it is, but I do. Groove Metal and its fans, from my own experiences, are not only misrepresenting metal as a whole, but are also contaminating the underground by turning it into another trend. The Groove Metal scene feels like nothing more than a trend to me; just like the Deathcore scene and the Nu-Metal scene. To me, that renders it as false metal.
> 
> ...




I presume you are some kind of a kvlt black metal fan... If so, I totally understand your point of view.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

To Zepp88:

Ha! Fair enough...doodoo head!



Spoongirl said:


> I presume you are some kind of a kvlt black metal fan... If so, I totally understand your point of view.



I'm not kvlt at all, in the black metal scene. I'm about as 'untroO' as they come. Haha. But I do love black metal and all of its subgenres. Its my favorite style of metal. I love it like its my own child.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

I must not be very metal at all, right now I'm listening to Nevermore, but minutes later it could be Seal or Depeche Mode, and then woah Bloodbath!


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

You can most certainly listen to styles of music and artists outside of metal and still be a metalhead.


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> I know, to each his/her own. I just strongly dislike the genre and feel like the majority of people that I meet that like bands out of the genre are completely close-minded to the rest of the metal underground.
> 
> To me, the metal underground is sacred. I don't think I could explain exactly why I feel that it is, but I do. Groove Metal and its fans, from my own experiences, are not only misrepresenting metal as a whole, but are also contaminating the underground by turning it into another trend. The Groove Metal scene feels like nothing more than a trend to me; just like the Deathcore scene and the Nu-Metal scene. To me, that renders it as false metal.
> 
> ...



That's one of the most elitist posts I've ever seen...

And groove metal has been around since what? 1990 or so? Almost 20 years. If it's just a trend, then it's one that's been around for a pretty long time.

I don't care what you do or don't like, but it just seems really silly to make a group called "Groove Metal is not metal." That's like me being an old-school hip hop guy and starting a group called "Gangster rap is not rap" and going on about how it doesn't embody the spirit of true hip hop and how it's destroying the hip hop underground. You could think that, but to me, it just comes off as elitist and totally baseless. Especially, since musically speaking, groove metal IS metal.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Pantera had quite a bit to do with the groove metal thing in the beginning, and who would ever deny that they're metal as fuck?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I must not be very metal at all, right now I'm listening to Nevermore, but minutes later it could be Seal or Depeche Mode, and then woah Bloodbath!



Hey, bloodbath is awesome, except their tone, that just sounds like a total overkill version of the whole buzzsaw tone thing.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Pantera had quite a bit to do with the groove metal thing in the beginning, and who would ever deny that they're metal as fuck?



metal as Suck, maybe!


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Stealthtastic said:


> Hey, bloodbath is awesome, except their tone, that just sounds like a total overkill version of the whole buzzsaw tone thing.



Bloodbath fucking rules, and so does their tone


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> metal as Suck, maybe!



Pantera was like the most metal band ever. I could understand someone not liking them, but not thinking they're metal!? That's crazy talk.



Stealthtastic said:


> Hey, bloodbath is awesome, except their tone, that just sounds like a total overkill version of the whole buzzsaw tone thing.



The tone on "Outnumbering The Day" is one of the best guitar tones I've ever heard in my life. I can't imagine how anyone could not like it.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> That's one of the most elitist posts I've ever seen...
> 
> And groove metal has been around since what? 1990 or so? Almost 20 years. If it's just a trend, then it's one that's been around for a pretty long time.
> 
> I don't care what you do or don't like, but it just seems really silly to make a group called "Groove Metal is not metal." That's like me being an old-school hip hop guy and starting a group called "Gangster rap is not rap" and going on about how it doesn't embody the spirit of true hip hop and how it's destroying the hip hop underground. You could think that, but to me, it just comes off as elitist and totally baseless. Especially, since musically speaking, groove metal IS metal.



Well, its turned into something akin to a trend.

And if it seems really silly to you, that's because I created the Group to be silly. Did you see the other Group I created a few days ago? "The Most Attractive People On Last.FM," currently featuring TWO members! 

And your rap analogy sounds logic to me. If I was a rap fan, I could see myself doing that. In the beginning, rap lyrics were about real experiences. Now, so much of it is about trying to be more 'hard' and 'pimp.' But I could totally wrong, I don't pay much attention to hip hop.

And musically speaking, Celine Dion is a singer/songwriter. 

But you're right, I probably am just being elitist. But don't take me too seriously.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> The tone on "Outnumbering The Day" is one of the best guitar tones I've ever heard in my life. I can't imagine how anyone could not like it.




"nightmares made flesh" has kickass tone its songs like "like fire" that have the buzzsaw over kill


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> And your rap analogy sounds logic to me. If I was a rap fan, I could see myself doing that. In the beginning, rap lyrics were about real experiences. Now, so much of it is about trying to be more 'hard' and 'pimp.' But I could totally wrong, I don't pay much attention to hip hop.
> 
> And musically speaking, Celine Dion is a singer/songwriter.
> 
> But you're right, I probably am just being elitist. But don't take me too seriously.



I personally think gangster rap lyrics are the worst in the world and old rap was mostly about, like you said, real experiences or about having fun with your friends or whatever, but then it turned into about how cool it was killing people, raping women, sleeping with prostitutes, stealing money, being rich, being in gangs, and so on.

But, me disliking it doesn't change the fact that it's still rap. And I think complaining about it is just silly. If you don't like it, just don't listen to it.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> Pantera was like the most metal band ever. I could understand someone not liking them, but not thinking they're metal!? That's crazy talk.



'Vulgar Display of Power' has done more damage to thrash metal than any other album I can think of off the top of my head. I hate how dumbed down and trendy it is; this is where Limp Bizkit and friends got their inspiration. That's why I say Pantera sucks.


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> 'Vulgar Display of Power' has done more damage to thrash metal than any other album I can think of off the top of my head. I hate how dumbed down and trendy it is; this is where Limp Bizkit and friends got their inspiration. That's why I say Pantera sucks.



"Vulgar Display of Power" is one of my favorite albums of all time. Dumbed down? Compared to what? If you think it's dumbed down, then you clearly have never listened to the album.

"Done damage"? I would say the opposite. I would say it's one of the greatest albums in metal history.

I personally hear no influence from Pantera in Limp Bizkit. I do hear a lot of rap influence and Korn influence in there.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

...it's the epitome of metal. It's a bunch of dudes getting trashed and playing some brutal fucking music.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> I personally think gangster rap lyrics are the worst in the world and old rap was mostly about, like you said, real experiences or about having fun with your friends or whatever, but then it turned into about how cool it was killing people, raping women, sleeping with prostitutes, stealing money, being rich, being in gangs, and so on.
> 
> But, me disliking it doesn't change the fact that it's still rap. And I think complaining about it is just silly. If you don't like it, just don't listen to it.



I'm really not complaining. I know that doesn't do any good. Its really just all in fun, man. Sure, all of what I've said doesn't change the fact that Groove Metal fits the aesthetics of metal. But that doesn't mean that it isn't fun for me to say that its sucks and that its not 'real' metal!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> 'Vulgar Display of Power' has done more damage to thrash metal than any other album I can think of off the top of my head. I hate how dumbed down and trendy it is; this is where Limp Bizkit and friends got their inspiration. That's why I say Pantera sucks.



So if you inspire me to play guitar, and i suck, therefor it means you cant play guitar and suck?!?!?

Explain.


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> I'm really not complaining. I know that doesn't do any good. Its really just all in fun, man. Sure, all of what I've said doesn't change the fact that Groove Metal fits the aesthetics of metal. But that doesn't mean that it isn't fun for me to say that its sucks and that its not 'real' metal!



Reminds me of the Manowar thing with the "True metal" where they only consider classic metal/power metal as true metal and all forms of extreme metal as "false metal." It's really arbitrary when it comes down to that.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

That's right!! Because if *I *inspired you to play guitar, then you'd better ROCK or else I have failed as a musician!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> That's right!! Because if *I *inspired you to play guitar, then you'd better ROCK or else I have failed as a musician!



i dont know what to say


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> That's right!! Because if *I *inspired you to play guitar, then you'd better ROCK or else I have failed as a musician!



Then I guess Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden pretty much suck.

As does pretty much every band that's ever come out.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> Reminds me of the Manowar thing with the "True metal" where they only consider classic metal/power metal as true metal and all forms of extreme metal as "false metal." It's really arbitrary when it comes down to that.



Manowar is the Chuck Norris of metal. Do not speak ill of them!


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Something I always wonder when people drop in here to defend their honor......


How did you even find this thread dude?


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

I assume he checked the source of the people viewing his group and they were all coming from a thread on sevenstring.org.


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## elrrek (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> Manowar is the Chuck Norris of metal. Do not speak ill of them!



Manowar are fucking shite. I counter your argument using the form of your own argument therefore deeming you false and me true. But please, don't take me so seriously.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2008)

elrrek said:


> Manowar are fucking shite. I counter your argument using the form of your own argument therefore deeming you false and me true. But please, don't take me so seriously.


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2008)

^I thought it was pretty hilarious and appropriate too.


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## shaneroo (Jul 24, 2008)

with all do respect, and being as objective as possible........... ignore anyone who says pantera isn't metal. i'm not trying to jump in and fuel this guy's fire, but seriously. ignore, and move on.
and i really think down of people who categorize genres to the utmost nick-picky fashion.


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## AxelKay (Jul 24, 2008)

Guys guys!........putting labels on metal oriented bands causes only trouble. This kind of music has been through so much shit through the years. The fans the bands and the record companies are responsible for this. I grew up listening to old school metal bands such as (old)Maiden - (old)Mayhem - (old)manowar and 80's thrash and power epic. I hardly listen to these bands anymore. Nu-metal and N.W.O.S.D.M. is my kind of thing nowadays. SURE there's a huge number of new bands today who try mixing different kinds of music in order to be "unique" or just get peoples' attention and SURE this may irritate somehow "older metalheads" if you get my point. But anyway I could sit down and discuss this thing for hours and hours. To wrap it up, I'd like to let you guys think of something that Warrel Dane from Nevermore quoted sometime in the past : _*If I like it....then it IS metal!!!! *_(hmmm metal hammer I think? I'm not sure)
In my opinion each and every one of us should treat this genre that way.


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## noodleplugerine (Jul 24, 2008)

Dear god...

WHY DOES IT ALLWAYS COME DOWN TO THE GENRES!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 24, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> with all do respect, and being as objective as possible........... ignore anyone who says pantera isn't metal. i'm not trying to jump in and fuel this guy's fire, but seriously. ignore, and move on.
> and i really think down of people who categories genres to the utmost nick-picky fashion.



shane speaks truth


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## AxelKay (Jul 24, 2008)

Music is meant to unite people...not vice versa!


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## Mattayus (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> 'Vulgar Display of Power' has done more damage to thrash metal than any other album I can think of off the top of my head. I hate how dumbed down and trendy it is; this is where Limp Bizkit and friends got their inspiration. That's why I say Pantera sucks.



Vulgar Display of Power is the epitome of metal, and on this statement alone i've concluded you know less about metal than my dad, and that's saying something.

It has everything that's the opposite of 'groove metal', but unfortunately people who know nothing about metal like yourself hear the tight grooves that were incorporated, put 2 and 2 together, and get 5.

if groove metal is dumbed down thrash, then what the fuck is this!? it was clevered up thrash, if nothing else!!


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## BigBaldIan (Jul 24, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> with all do respect, and being as objective as possible........... ignore anyone who says pantera isn't metal. i'm not trying to jump in and fuel this guy's fire, but seriously. ignore, and move on.
> and i really think down of people who categorize genres to the utmost nick-picky fashion.


 
Too right, I'm just going to sit back and watch the fireworks because arguments like these never end well. 

Got any popcorn?


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## Zepp88 (Jul 24, 2008)

Please refer all questions to Mattayus' avatar.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 24, 2008)

I love Pantera.

I love Lamb of God.

I can close threads and ban people. 


I win.


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## Nick (Jul 24, 2008)

to be fair a love of pantera really should part of the man rules.

Lamb of god i also love but they are always going to get bashed because they actually shift cd's


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## Toshiro (Jul 24, 2008)

Cowboys From Hell is just fucking badass.

I refuse to deny Sepultura their Metal tag due to Beneath The Remains.

Anthrax not metal, W-T-F? You're telling me Belly Of The Beast isn't metal?

Damn dude, when were you born, 1995?



> Which genre of 'Metal' features all of the bands that you are the most disheartened to hear named after asking some guy in a Slayer/Black Sabbath/Metallica shirt what other Metal he likes?


And after all this shit, you refer to Metallica as metal when they made the biggest slip into shit of anyone?


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## Mattayus (Jul 24, 2008)

Fuckin ay


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## jrf8 (Jul 24, 2008)

fuck tagging extended names on genres, i dont even have a clue what "groove" metal is? music is music



The Dark Wolf said:


> I love Pantera.
> 
> I love Lamb of God.
> 
> ...




thats awesome, i like you


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## Uber Mega (Jul 24, 2008)

Interesting thread, the group poster makes up a few respect points for coming in and posting as politely as he has, but still...

...I listen to what i like, genre tags do nothing for me and i hate pigeon-holing...I believe that if anyone says ANY type of music "sucks" or whatever, well, they're wrong. A type of music might not appeal to you, and that's your loss that you can't appreciate elements of it, but it certainly doesn't suck...and i hold that true from bubblegum pop through to the most underground metal.

As to whether Groove Metal (whatever the fuck groove metal is???) is "real metal", well, i really couldn't care 

Music taste reminds me of religion some times...the "following" of the two have a lot in common.


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## thedownside (Jul 24, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> I love Pantera.
> 
> I love Lamb of God.
> 
> ...



You sir, are the man.

I also love Pantera.

I also love Lamb of God.

so therefore I win by association


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## Luan (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm the "horrible" comment, remember me?


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## Mattayus (Jul 24, 2008)

Luan said:


> I'm the "horrible" comment, remember me?


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## Luan (Jul 24, 2008)

Mattayus said:


>



I left a note on his shitty group.

BTW: GUYS THE TRUTH IS HERE

The Most Attractive People On Last.FM â Group at Last.fm

WITH 2 members only, one being GUESS WHO


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## Rick (Jul 24, 2008)

Why are some people so fucking stupid?


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## Metal Ken (Jul 24, 2008)

Two things i must say regarding the last 4 pages of this thread:

1- Manowar is gay. 
2- Pantera is metal. I dont really even like pantera that much (Maybe 6 songs total). But they're metal. And they didnt damage thrash at all. Fucking grunge damaged everything. when the hair rock posers went out of style, so did the heavy shit. But you know what? I wouldnt have it any other way. Know why? Forcing metal underground developed shit that fucking RULED. Like Death metal and black metal which got their ball really rolling around the same time as most of those thrash bands tried to groove out. So, while thrash (for the most part) kicked the bucket, fucking awesome fuckers like Malevolent Creation fucking STEAMROLLED florida.


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

Luan said:


> I left a note on his shitty group.
> 
> BTW: GUYS THE TRUTH IS HERE
> 
> ...



If you're saying that it is the truth that I am one of the most attractive people on Last.FM, and so far (about 3 days), I've only found one other person that is within my league, then you sir are CORRECT.


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## S-O (Jul 24, 2008)

Trendy does not equal bad. The Beatles were "trendy", but undeniably were great. I am more of a Stones guy...

Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it is shit. Commercial success is a dream of 99% of all bands, and that 1% are often jealous of the ones who made it while they did. DO I wish Jetsam and Flotsam had been as popular as Metallica or Megadeth, hells yeah. I enjoy sharing musical tastes with people.

Avenged sevenfold. I don't really like them, but I can not deny that they are doing somehting right to be so popular. 

If music is supposed to be a cathartic action, who the hell are you to decide which emotions are superior. Greed and vanity are just as powerful as love or hate. 

Even your opinions and this post are emotions that could be expressed through arts like music. There are a lot of bads out there that whine about how their life sucks and how the haves torment the habe nots, and bands that lament on their love leaving them.

In the end, I don't agree with your opinion, but thoughts and emotions liek these are what create awesome bands


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## Xk6m6m5X (Jul 24, 2008)

honostly who cares about what genre is or isnt metal...if you like it you like it..if you dont you dont..o well..ya know?


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## WonderPat (Jul 24, 2008)

I Hate Groove Metal â Group at Last.fm

Everyone happy, now? 



S-O said:


> Trendy does not equal bad. The Beatles were "trendy", but undeniably were great. I am more of a Stones guy...
> 
> Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it is shit. Commercial success is a dream of 99% of all bands, and that 1% are often jealous of the ones who made it while they did. DO I wish Jetsam and Flotsam had been as popular as Metallica or Megadeth, hells yeah. I enjoy sharing musical tastes with people.
> 
> ...



This is a good post. But I wouldn't say commercial success is the dream of 99% of bands. I think the vast majority of brutal death metal, black metal and grindcore band couldn't care less about commercial success. And I respect that. Who needs the masses' approval, anyways? Most people just like crap, anyways. 

But I know, I know...its all just opinions. But when one honestly stands for something in his/her art, he/she knows that its about the expression. The art becomes something sacred, and a lot of artists wouldn't want this soiled by the mainstream.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 24, 2008)

jesus, i just wasted 10 minutes of my live on this crappy thread 

I see where wonder pat is comming from. When i hear old dio and poision and shit like that, i dont think of it as "metal", but at the time and era it came from, it was metal then.

But quite seriously, your a fucking idiot if you say pantera isnt metal. I'm totally into underground metal, but just because pantera had some comerical sucess, doesnt mean that they are now non metal. 

And whats this "groove metal' bull shit? Iv never even heard the term. I'l admit, some bands are a bit bland and boreing, but all of the "groove metal" bands you listed, are still metal. They just might not be as good or talented as your "real metal" bands.

Trying to define metal is like trying to define rock.
People call elvis rock, and then some people call disturbed rock, its so wide of a margin, that they arent even the same thing.

"hey guys, lets argue and try to define metal. Something that has no clear defination anyway!


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## Nick (Jul 24, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> 'Vulgar Display of Power' has done more damage to thrash metal than any other album I can think of off the top of my head. I hate how dumbed down and trendy it is; this is where Limp Bizkit and friends got their inspiration. That's why I say Pantera sucks.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 24, 2008)

no shit, i honostly cant even understand how this guy can just SAY pantera and Limp bizkit in the same sentance, let alone try to say that limp bizket was influenced by pantera.

I slightly understood where you were comming from at first, but now, your just looking like a complete fucking idiot pat

Seriously, have you ever even listened to either of those bands?? Clearly you havnt, or else you have some kind of head injury


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## Nick (Jul 24, 2008)

i mean i can get why youd maybe say limp bizkit took a bit from pantera with the heavy but not fast riffs but for fucks sake. To liken the 2 bands is stupid at best.


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## UGH (Jul 24, 2008)

I've got cash money that says this guy has probably never even seen a guitar much less, knows how to play one.


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## El Caco (Jul 25, 2008)

Wow something is not Metal because you do not like it.

Some will say Iron Butterfly invented Heavy Metal music others would say it was Steppenwolf, Judas priest and others went on to re-define it in the 70's and it has continued to evolve into various different sub genres. The only thing that black metal and death metal today have in common with the original metal is the emphasis on guitars being as thick and heavy as possible. IMO it's just as valid to say that practically any modern metal is not metal as it is to say Pantera are not metal. Trying to exclude a band from metal is as valid as my grandparents excluding metal from music.

Anyone who claims that the bands I love are not metal is false.

WonderPat  Cancelled


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## shaneroo (Jul 25, 2008)

WonderPat said:


> I Hate Groove Metal â Group at Last.fm
> 
> Everyone happy, now?
> 
> ...


this is definitely true, until mommy and daddy says "it's time for you to move out, get a job, and be a productive member of society."

100% of musicians dream to be successful. if bands don't care about "commercial success," then guess what.......they will be living in their mother's basement, with a six pack of cheap beer every night, wacking off to B-flick porn, then smoking up in the morning, and going to the bass player's parent's garage to rehearse. 
the bands that you've heard or respect are doing either:
living off of the commercial/promotional success that they've earned.....
or......
playing, then working one or two jobs on the side......

staying "true" to your craft is great.......... but find a way to do it in a successful manner, or be the latter.

critics have too much time on their hands. get out and do something.

(sorry, had to jump back in this thread).


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## Naren (Jul 25, 2008)

^ Great post, Shane.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 25, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> this is definitely true, until mommy and daddy says "it's time for you to move out, get a job, and be a productive member of society."
> 
> 100% of musicians dream to be successful. if bands don't care about "commercial success," then guess what.......they will be living in their mother's basement, with a six pack of cheap beer every night, wacking off to B-flick porn, then smoking up in the morning, and going to the bass player's parent's garage to rehearse.
> the bands that you've heard or respect are doing either:
> ...




You win


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## Kronpox (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm going to try to /thread this whole thread in just a few words:

Why does something being 'metal' or not being 'metal' have anything to do with how much you enjoy it?

Personally, I enjoy music. If you want to call my music metal, or say it's a dumbed down version of limp bizkit meant to be sold to the masses, it doesn't change how much I enjoy it. I thought that was a pretty straightforward way of thinking


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## Mattayus (Jul 25, 2008)

it is, for non-elitist, non-internet-allstars like me or you


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 25, 2008)

Internet Allstars. 

Didn't Chris coin that term? When he said it, it was the first time I'd ever heard it. Cracks me the fuck up.

Nice posts, Shane and Dave. Rep to you.


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## Nick (Jul 25, 2008)

Kronpox said:


> I'm going to try to /thread this whole thread in just a few words:
> 
> Why does something being 'metal' or not being 'metal' have anything to do with how much you enjoy it?
> 
> Personally, I enjoy music. If you want to call my music metal, or say it's a dumbed down version of limp bizkit meant to be sold to the masses, it doesn't change how much I enjoy it. I thought that was a pretty straightforward way of thinking



It is indeed, but guys like this are constantly in search of self validation and so find music and easy way for them to seperate themselves, or include themselves from or in whats 'cool'.


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## Luan (Jul 25, 2008)

HOLY FUCK.
HOW CAN YOU INSULT VULGAR DISPLAY OF POWER.


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## soldierkahn (Jul 25, 2008)

i think its quite amusing how so many people write-off Lamb Of God, but have any of you TRIED to play their shit. Until you can play a lot of their shit, dont talk shit. I think what they're doing is fresh in a very stagnant genre. Same with DevilDriver (which totally kicks Coal Chamber in the balls) and Chimaira.


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## Metal Ken (Jul 25, 2008)

One more point on this thread, and something i always wondered about (Warning: ATTEMPT AT DERAILING):

Why does saying something isnt metal tantamount to calling it shitty? Dude. Allan holdsworth totally ISNT metal. 

That said, fucker can play. 

How is this a negative thing? Mahavishnu Orchestra.. Not metal. yet, Owns faces. Why do people get pissed off if i say that something like Creed or some other radio band isn't metal, if it isn't? I didnt say it sucked,i just said it isnt metal, just as malevolent creation isnt jazz and deicide isnt funk.



Luan said:


> HOLY FUCK.
> HOW CAN YOU INSULT VULGAR DISPLAY OF POWER.


Personal opinion: I can only listen to half of that record, and only really enjoy about 4 songs off of it.


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## Luan (Jul 25, 2008)

It's ok if you don't like it, that isn't my point.


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## El Caco (Jul 25, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> One more point on this thread, and something i always wondered about (Warning: ATTEMPT AT DERAILING):
> 
> Why does saying something isnt metal tantamount to calling it shitty? Dude. Allan holdsworth totally ISNT metal.
> 
> ...





Though the not a Metal thing is an insult when it is directed at a band that is some type of Metal sub genre. It comes down to intent, if the statement is intended as an insult then it is, stating the obvious isn't an insult (jazz is not metal).

I just find it amusing that people think they can decide what is or isn't metal, metal is constantly evolving, trying to define it exactly is difficult and controversial. Metallica is a band that for a period defined Metal but if we were to imagine that one of their recent albums was their first release in today's market I doubt they would be considered metal, hard rock maybe.  They were pimped solidly on the country music channel for over 12 months here at one stage.


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## Luan (Jul 25, 2008)

A non musician can't tell if something is metal or not.
I hate critics, musicologys, etc, they all should die right now


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 25, 2008)

Well said, Ken. Hail Satan.


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## FredGrass (Jul 25, 2008)

I think the moral of the story is:
metal = (rock + roll)^666

Catch your buzz, sing your song, and dance your fuckin dance, motherfuckers!


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## Mattayus (Jul 26, 2008)

soldierkahn said:


> i think its quite amusing how so many people write-off Lamb Of God, but have any of you TRIED to play their shit. Until you can play a lot of their shit, dont talk shit. I think what they're doing is fresh in a very stagnant genre. Same with DevilDriver (which totally kicks Coal Chamber in the balls) and Chimaira.



there is ultimate truth in this. a lot of the NWOAHM is getting really overlooked nowadays when it SHOULD be shining through the rest of the pretentious crap out there


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## MerlinTKD (Jul 26, 2008)

oh my god, is this thread still here? 

Who gives a fuck if someone else says "this is metal, this is NOT metal"? And why should someone else give a fuck if I said "this is metal, this is NOT metal"?


_...is Chicago... is not Chicago..._


Defining bands as 'crap' is even less productive. You don't like a band, fine. Don't like them. If other people do, what's it to you? (I use _you_ in the general sense here, not aimed at any individual in particular)

I'll give you some examples: I love Sevendust, they're one of the few bands I'll drop everything to go see (another being Cowboy Mouth ). Are they metal? I don't know... the self-titled album probably is, _Home_, _Alpha_... others are probably more alt-rock... but then, that's what alt-metal is, metal influenced by 90's alt-rock. What I love about Sevendust is the combination of modified hip-hop/funk-type rhythms, metal aggression, good melodies, and some screaming thrown in for fun.  If this doesn't trip someone else's trigger, what's it to me? Not a damn thing.

Another example: I used to _hate_ Nevermore. Just could not get into it. Yeah, Jeff Loomis is an incredible guitarist, blah blah, there are people on this board just as good or better, I personally know some local guys who are at least that good (granted, the local guys sit around and essentially wank off by themselves ) - I have a lot of respect for Loomis, don't get me wrong, I just couldn't get into it. Warrell Dane's vocals turned me off. Then, a couple weeks ago... something clicked. Started digging it. Still think Dane could make some better/more varied melodic choices than he does, but that's just my opinion, he's doing what he wants and making money at it, so we see what an opinion is worth. Point is, keeping an open mind changed a 'crap' to an 'awesome'.

Last example: I can't stand black metal. Can't stand it.  The music, the vocals, the attitudes, the concepts, the behaviors... everything about it pushes the 'Eject' button in my brain. Does that make those bands 'not metal'? Does it make them 'crap'? _*Whether it does or not in my head has absolutely no bearing on anyone else's enjoyment or lack of.*_ You like black metal? Fine, I'm happy for you! I'd rather you didn't play it around me, but I'm not going to insult you or your favorite music because of my opinions.


Enough. Let this thread die. It's a pointless exercise in useless confrontation. You like a band or genre? Start a "... Appreciation" thread. Don't like a band or genre? You're entitled, but don't confuse that with any universal truths.


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## Kauze (Aug 2, 2010)

This is Lane Steele from "The Kings Of Groove Metal" Kauze!
I would love nothing more then to break that dudes face up on the curb! Lemme tell u something fuckhead Groove Metal is the hardest, coolest and one of the most popular genres in the world, So If u talk shit on Groove metal u talk shit on Lamb Of God, Pantera and of course Kauze and if thats the case u deserve an intense beatdown bro till u get ur head right. 
Check it 

Kauze (New Layout and Merch Coming Soon!) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads 
and If u dont like Groove Metal go fuck urself!


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## MFB (Aug 3, 2010)

You're just about exactly 2 years too late


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## kazawoochie (Aug 3, 2010)

L0000000L wow. Best thread EVER


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## AdamMaz (Aug 3, 2010)

Metal Ken said:


> ...craptacular bands like Machine Head...


Does not compute.


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## cwhitey2 (Aug 3, 2010)

FredGrass said:


> I hope that guy kills himself quickly.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 3, 2010)

who cares what that guy thinks?


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## 7deadlysins666 (Aug 3, 2010)

Buckethead Unmasked?


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