# New Christian Metal Bands



## Bribanez (Jul 25, 2011)

I haven't seen any recent threads on the topic so I was curious if anyone here is into the newer Christian metal scene

Bands like Onward To Olympus, Becoming The Archetype, Impending Doom, Sleeping Giant, etc.....


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## Lon (Jul 25, 2011)

So christian metal is a genere now? i thought it was a marketing-scheme... oh my...


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 25, 2011)

Slayer, Deicide and Behemoth come to mind.


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## guitarister7321 (Jul 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> Slayer, Deicide and Behemoth come to mind.


Was about to say something similar.


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## Guamskyy (Jul 25, 2011)

I the Breather. I believe one of the guitarists post her aswell.


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## Osiris (Jul 25, 2011)

Sinai Beach, Corpus Christi, Extol. If you want to branch into metalcore there are 99999 more. If you want to listen to heavy music for the music, we can recommend many more better bands, but if lyrical content is all you want then you're really limiting yourself.


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## bhakan (Jul 25, 2011)

Osiris said:


> Sinai Beach, Corpus Christi, Extol. If you want to branch into metalcore there are 99999 more. If you want to listen to heavy music for the music, we can recommend many more better bands, but if lyrical content is all you want then you're really limiting yourself.


 I agree, why limit yourself to such a narrow group of artists just based off of their personal beliefs, and not the actual music, that's like saying that since I like Mastodon's Leviathan, I only want to listen to progressive whale metal.

On the topic, I think 7 Horns 7 Eyes is christian.


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## Behaving_badly (Jul 25, 2011)

Well I heard Burzum is coming out with a new album soon


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## TheDjentlman (Jul 25, 2011)

Pretty much every Genericore band out there


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 25, 2011)

Impaled Nazarene.


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## TheFerryMan (Jul 25, 2011)

hey, someone asked a question about christian metal, welp looks like it's time to mock em.


anyway. Becoming the archetype, apleaforpurging (nastyname, decent music), For Today, impending doom, Extol, 7eyes7horns, demon hunter, house of heroes, antestor (christian black metal, wat ), The Crimson Armada, The empire shall fall, war of ages. 

i could go on and on...and on C:


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 25, 2011)

Bloodline Severed (friends of BTA and OTO) is pretty good.


7 Horns and 7 Eyes


The Burial has some cool stuff too. 


You might like...
Cosÿns (EP NOW AVAILABLE!) | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos
(Instrumetal and lyrics are through Morse Code) 

Whisper from Heaven | Charlotte, NC | Metal / Christian / Symphonic | Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos | ReverbNation
(Symphonic/ Progressive Metal)

EDIT: What does it matter if someone wants to listen to Christian Metal? Do you question those who ask if you like the new pop music or if they do? 

He didn't even say that he didn't listen to secular bands, he just asked about a Christian band topic. 
Some of you just assume he doesn't listen to secular music, what does it matter if he doesn't?

I'm sorry if I come off as a jerk. That is not my intention but please respect others.


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 25, 2011)

It's because a lot of these bands just use the christ card to market themselves and their genericore sound. A little originality goes a long way. Becoming The Archetype are great, though.

EDIT: Grammar. Their, There, Who the fuck knows, I'm drunk.


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## yingmin (Jul 25, 2011)

Somewhat ironically, Norway has a pretty rocking Christian metal scene. Extol is one of the most interesting and unique death metal bands around (or, at least, were on their first two albums), and Antestor and Schaliach are great as well. Now, I don't listen to music for its message. I'm no more interested in Extol's Christianity than I am the Satanism or other beliefs espoused by many other metal bands. The reaction against Christian metal in this thread is, I think, pretty silly. In fairness, that's partly because there aren't that many bands like Extol, who get that you can make Christian music without sucking, and focusing more on the preaching than making the music any good. But they're definitely out there, and they're worth listening to, regardless of what their lyrics are about.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 25, 2011)

Extol are fucking awesome. Impending Doom are also savagely good.


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## mithologian (Jul 25, 2011)

Hope for the dying. The dissimulation album pretty much follows the same idiology behind colors, where every song flows into the next, and the last song flows back into the first one. As far as sound goes, its kind of a mix of the human abstract and august burns red with nice orchestrations added to the mix. Personally is refreshing seeing christian bands that dont sound like the next generic core band in the list. These guys and becoming the archetype are my best recomendations.


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## beneharris (Jul 25, 2011)

yeah guys grow up. if you are just going to give him crap for asking a question, don't bother posting in the thread. no need for it.

Neal Morse comes to mind when i think of good, and original christian music. see sola scriptura. 

i've always enjoyed mortification as well.



edit: i just watched this video... holy crap its bad. good song though

and living sacrifice is always good.


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 25, 2011)

The Crown are definitely NOT a Christian band.


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## beneharris (Jul 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> The Crown are definitely NOT a Christian band.


really? i had not listened to anything but this disk, and only 1 time. i'll remove them from my list


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## Osiris (Jul 25, 2011)

they're about as Christian as it gets


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 25, 2011)

beneharris said:


> really? i had not listened to anything but this disk, and only 1 time. i'll remove them from my list



Yeah, they definitely dabble in the, uh, anti Christian subject matter in their catalog. I will second Scar Symmetry's post, both those bands are insane. Christian or no, if the music is good, I'll listen to it.


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## beneharris (Jul 25, 2011)

lol serves me for not doing my research


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 25, 2011)

Edge of Eternity | Greenwood, SC | Metal / Rock / Christian | Music, Lyrics, Songs, and Videos | ReverbNation

Edge of Eternity (Symphonic Rock/Metal) is pretty cool too.

EXTOL


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## Bribanez (Jul 25, 2011)

I did expect some bashing just because the topic had "Christian" in it but still a little surprised by it. 

I wasn't really asking for band recommendations, but, thanks. I like the scene and am aware of alot of the bands in it. Being a Christian, a guitar player and a metalhead I still listen to secular bands. And I don't really care about what "core" they fall into. As long as it's good, heavy and brutal I like it. I don't have a bias against "hardcore" or "deathcore". I guerss I'm not "scene" enough for some people. I don't like alot of the "suckcore" I hear, tho. But I do gravitate towards bands with a positive message.


Maybe I'll start a thread about Life Of Agony and see how much flak I get.


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## Goro923 (Jul 25, 2011)

I was under the impression that Christian Metal was just bad metalcore with an extremely massive target audience. Oh, wait. 

Also, I always thought the very conjunction of those two words was kind of ... wrong, but who am I to judge? All they do is replace "baby" with "Jesus", right?


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## TheFerryMan (Jul 25, 2011)

just a question. 

anybody know of any bands that fall into the Sludge category? 
the closest i can think of is Fireball Ministry...and they are more stoner/southern rock than sludge.


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## troyguitar (Jul 25, 2011)

Divinefire


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 25, 2011)

Goro923 said:


> I was under the impression that Christian Metal was just bad metalcore with an extremely massive target audience. Oh, wait.
> 
> Also, I always thought the very conjunction of those two words was kind of ... wrong, but who am I to judge? All they do is replace "baby" with "Jesus", right?



Not all bands are like that though. They're some bands that are Christian but aren't metal as well. Some of them truly want to minister though I can't speak for all bands either that label themselves "Christian." 

I hope that all of those bands who do that are truly doing it for the right reason. 

As far as Metal goes. I can honestly say I never got into metal because of anger or evil.

I just liked the sound of the music.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 25, 2011)

Lol.


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## Explorer (Jul 26, 2011)

Bribanez said:


> I did expect some bashing just because the topic had "Christian" in it but still a little surprised by it.



If you feel someone is "bashing," there is a report button provided.

I'm mildly amused by the irony, considering how you reached for "gay" as an insult in your "road worn" thread. The ease of that insult, combined with this topic, is a bit telling. *laugh*

It's not my intention to "bash," but just to bring your surprise at "bashing," gay or otherwise, into perspective. As you introduced the idea in your own thread, the observation is on-topic. Wouldn't you agree?


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## Bribanez (Jul 26, 2011)

Goro923 said:


> I was under the impression that Christian Metal was just bad metalcore with an extremely massive target audience. Oh, wait.
> 
> Also, I always thought the very conjunction of those two words was kind of ... wrong, but who am I to judge? All they do is replace "baby" with "Jesus", right?


 

Hardly


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## Bribanez (Jul 26, 2011)

Explorer said:


> If you feel someone is "bashing," there is a report button provided.
> 
> I'm mildly amused by the irony, considering how you reached for "gay" as an insult in your "road worn" thread. The ease of that insult, combined with this topic, is a bit telling. *laugh*
> 
> It's not my intention to "bash," but just to bring your surprise at "bashing," gay or otherwise, into perspective. As you introduced the idea in your own thread, the observation is on-topic. Wouldn't you agree?


 

Ehh....not really. I meant gay is in cheesy. Not gay as in orientation. There was no insult intended. That you took it that way and made that assumption is.....a bit telling. *laugh*


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## caskettheclown (Jul 26, 2011)

Personally I can't stand bands with "preachy" lyrics but I do like bands with positive lyrics.


August burns red are Christians

Killswitch engage have positive lyrics

Underoath is good as well.


ALSO Shadows Fall has mostly positive lyrics though they are a Buddhist based band


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## Aaron Smith (Jul 26, 2011)

Being in 7 Horns 7 Eyes I definitely have some opinions on the topic of "Christian Metal" 

I thoroughly understand the "genericore" argument... I will be the first to admit that every time I hear about a new "Christian Metal band", my immediate thought is that it's probably going to suck royally  However, in my opinion, the "Christian band" label is quite a peculiar thing to begin with. It perplexes me that no one ever tries to classify the vast majority of bands by what their beliefs are, yet somehow when it becomes known that a band has Christian members, or has lyrics inspired by Christianity, or does something to associate themselves with Christianity, they almost always start being commonly referred to as a "Christian band". Why is it even relevant? The quality of the music should speak for itself.

As for 7H7E, quite some time ago we formally decided together that the negative connotations that come with being known and marketed as a "Christian Metal band" would be a detriment to our career. We are all Christian dudes, and we aren't ashamed to talk about it (or even perhaps make our beliefs evident in our lyrics if it feels right), but we play music because we are passionate about music, _not _because Christianity offers us the opportunity to pursue a cool little niche market in the music industry. All of the artists we are influenced by have earned their place not by using music as a secondary, backdoor way to force some kind of religious or philosophical perspective onto the listener, but by simply pursuing true creative musical excellence. In my view, if an artist loses interest in refining their craft and making dedicated efforts to furthering the creativity of their music, their music will very quickly become irrelevant to anyone who really cares about the finer aspects of what makes music good.

I don't completely know how to explain why the vast majority of "Christian Metal bands" suck, but perhaps one of the best ways of looking at it is considering how high schools are classified based on their size (3A, 2A...B, etc). If there's a record label who has chosen to only sign and market overtly "Christian" artists, there is a much smaller pool of bands to choose from (B-league schools so to speak), which means that the creative standards and musical prowess of those bands is almost always inferior to the much larger pool of secular artists, yet those bands still get pushed to the forefront of people's attention, because they have a record label and marketing machine behind them... This is certainly not a complete explanation, but I'm sure that it's a contributing factor!


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

Aaron Smith said:


> I don't completely know how to explain why the vast majority of "Christian Metal bands" suck, but perhaps one of the best ways of looking at it is considering how high schools are classified based on their size (3A, 2A...B, etc). If there's a record label who has chosen to only sign and market overtly "Christian" artists, there is a much smaller pool of bands to choose from (B-league schools so to speak), which means that the creative standards and musical prowess of those bands is almost always inferior to the much larger pool of secular artists, yet those bands still get pushed to the forefront of people's attention, because they have a record label and marketing machine behind them... This is certainly not a complete explanation, but I'm sure that it's a contributing factor!



There may be something to that, but I would also argue that for many if not most Christian bands, the "Christian" part comes before the "band" part. They're primarily trying to spread the word of God, and performing music is just a vehicle to that end. The same is not true in reverse. Lots of bands put Satanic or occult themes into their music that have no personal attachment to the subject matter; they're just doing it to shock and offend, or because that's what the bands that influenced them did. The music comes first. Even for the darker bands that do genuinely believe in their lyrical content, I doubt they view their music as a way to bring other people around to their belief system. They'd be making music anyway, so they might as well talk about Satan, or paganism, or atheism, or HP Lovecraft or whatever else while they're doing it.


As far as why people feel the need to label bands as "Christian", it's at least partly because of how the mainstream has shifted away from Christianity over the years. 50+ years ago, it was the most normal thing in the world for a band or artist to release Christian music, and there was no need for a separate label for it. Popular opinion has changed, and now even a lot of Christians find openly Christian music a little cheesy. The only artists still making Christian music are the ones who really believe, and believe so strongly that they're willing to pigeonhole themselves into a pretty unpopular niche. When you look at metal, this is orders of magnitude greater, and you need look no farther than the response generated by this thread to see it. I've seen threads about atheistic or Satanic bands, and don't remember there being any sort of backlash against them, but a thread about Christian bands? Fucking look out. Being a Christian metal band is like being a Satanic country band*. It's so far outside the norm as to be abrasive and off-putting. Non-religious metal fans who can listen to Satanic bands and think nothing of it will still grate their teeth at any positive mention of Jesus or God. Bands will sprinkle their lyrics with references to Satan, or Paganism, or atheism, or the Lovecraft mythos or whatever you can imagine and think nothing of it, but would never think to write something Christian (the lone and somewhat curious exception to this being power metal). Part of the impulse behind all the Satanism and occultism in metal isn't that people are really into that (again, some are, but they're by no means the majority), but as a reaction against Christianity. 

* by the way, if anybody knows of Satanic country bands, I'd love to hear them


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## jaco815 (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> There may be something to that, but I would also argue that for many if not most Christian bands, the "Christian" part comes before the "band" part. They're primarily trying to spread the word of God, and performing music is just a vehicle to that end. The same is not true in reverse. Lots of bands put Satanic or occult themes into their music that have no personal attachment to the subject matter; they're just doing it to shock and offend, or because that's what the bands that influenced them did. The music comes first. Even for the darker bands that do genuinely believe in their lyrical content, I doubt they view their music as a way to bring other people around to their belief system. They'd be making music anyway, so they might as well talk about Satan, or paganism, or atheism, or HP Lovecraft or whatever else while they're doing it.
> 
> 
> As far as why people feel the need to label bands as "Christian", it's at least partly because of how the mainstream has shifted away from Christianity over the years. 50+ years ago, it was the most normal thing in the world for a band or artist to release Christian music, and there was no need for a separate label for it. Popular opinion has changed, and now even a lot of Christians find openly Christian music a little cheesy. The only artists still making Christian music are the ones who really believe, and believe so strongly that they're willing to pigeonhole themselves into a pretty unpopular niche. When you look at metal, this is orders of magnitude greater, and you need look no farther than the response generated by this thread to see it. I've seen threads about atheistic or Satanic bands, and don't remember there being any sort of backlash against them, but a thread about Christian bands? Fucking look out. Being a Christian metal band is like being a Satanic country band*. It's so far outside the norm as to be abrasive and off-putting. Non-religious metal fans who can listen to Satanic bands and think nothing of it will still grate their teeth at any positive mention of Jesus or God. Bands will sprinkle their lyrics with references to Satan, or Paganism, or atheism, or the Lovecraft mythos or whatever you can imagine and think nothing of it, but would never think to write something Christian (the lone and somewhat curious exception to this being power metal). Part of the impulse behind all the Satanism and occultism in metal isn't that people are really into that (again, some are, but they're by no means the majority), but as a reaction against Christianity.
> ...


 
^Mad amounts of awesomeness here. I agree with you and think you're f'in smart.


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## The Somberlain (Jul 26, 2011)

Well they aren't exactly metal, but Hildegard, JS Bach, and George Handel have some excellent religious music.

Hildegard wrote some of the most beautiful music of ALL TIME!!! Listen (ignore the lame manipulations of images that distract from the music): &#x202a;Hildegard von Bingen: O pastor animarum (plainchant)&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> * by the way, if anybody knows of Satanic country bands, I'd love to hear them


 
The only thing remotely close that comes to mind is this:



Back OT: I suppose there's As I Lay Dying and Underoath, who are Christians, yet aren't so preachy with their music. Both good bands. 

Some Christian Thrash (because Thrash is awesome)


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 26, 2011)

I dunno about the whole "genre" but these bands have become half of the metal oriented craigslist ads in my area...

Makes my brain hurt.


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## The McThief (Jul 26, 2011)

For Today, August Burns Red, and Underoath. 'Nuff said.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 26, 2011)

The McThief said:


> For Today, August Burns Red, and Underoath. 'Nuff said.



Lol...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

I've heard a few Becoming The Archetype songs and I liked what I heard. I found out much later they were a "christian" band and I was surprised. Normally christian and metal are two things that are destined for failure, but some bands pull it off. 

To the people having a LOLfest over the christian metal thing..whereas I definitely see your point, it's not really justified here. There are decent christian metal bands (somewhere) and I'm all for listening to good music, regardless of the religious message.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I've heard a few Becoming The Archetype songs and I liked what I heard. I found out much later they were a "christian" band and I was surprised. Normally christian and metal are two things that are destined for failure, but some bands pull it off.
> 
> To the people having a LOLfest over the christian metal thing..whereas I definitely see your point, it's not really justified here. There are decent christian metal bands (somewhere) and I'm all for listening to good music, regardless of the religious message.



I'm actually having a lol fest over August Burns Red and Underoath being Metal to these people


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## Goatchrist (Jul 26, 2011)

Hope I don't go off topic, but can anyone recommend me some* Jewish Metal*?


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

Goatchrist said:


> Hope I don't go off topic, but can anyone recommend me some* Jewish Metal*?



Orphaned Land, kind of. They're from Israel, and at least their album Mabool has a Biblical (Toranic?) theme to it, but I wouldn't say they're Jewish in the sense of trying to send any kind of message.

Also, I'm not convinced Daath isn't Jewish-themed. Their name is a Hebrew word, at least a couple of the members have Jewish heritage, and I'm not a fan, so I haven't looked too deeply into their music, but I glanced at some of their lyrics, and I could see them being religious in nature. Again, though, if they are talking about Jewish subject matter, it's doubtful they're trying to preach to anyone.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 26, 2011)

Goatchrist said:


> Hope I don't go off topic, but can anyone recommend me some* Jewish Metal*?


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

CrushingAnvil said:


>




Yep, Orphaned Land. Mabool is a pretty great album.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Jewish Metal..it's Hebrewtal!!


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## DLG (Jul 26, 2011)

if you like power metal check out DivineFire they are pretty great. sounds a little like Nocturnal Rites later stuff, power metal with some lower tunings and grittier


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## Seventary (Jul 26, 2011)

MANTRIC !!


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## ittoa666 (Jul 26, 2011)

Whatever happened to just calling it metal? If you ask me, christian metal and satanic metal both take their names too seriously. They both become cheesy.


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## Xarn (Jul 26, 2011)




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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> Whatever happened to just calling it metal? If you ask me, christian metal and satanic metal both take their names too seriously. They both become cheesy.



Genre labels are rarely, if ever, decided on by the bands themselves.


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## Varcolac (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Also, I'm not convinced Daath isn't Jewish-themed. Their name is a Hebrew word, at least a couple of the members have Jewish heritage, and I'm not a fan, so I haven't looked too deeply into their music, but I glanced at some of their lyrics, and I could see them being religious in nature. Again, though, if they are talking about Jewish subject matter, it's doubtful they're trying to preach to anyone.


"Meshuggah" means "crazy" in Yiddish. Oy vey.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Genre labels are rarely, if ever, decided on by the bands themselves.



It would seem like that.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 26, 2011)

caskettheclown said:


> Personally I can't stand bands with "preachy" lyrics but I do like bands with positive lyrics.




Always makes the band less enjoyable for me when I have to listen to track after track, album after album about how 'dumb' people are for living their lives like 'sheep' and believing in God. I personally think it's a really bad stereotype for metal and I try to distance myself from it. There are far bigger issues in the world right now than your neighbor who goes to church on Wed. & Sunday and keeps to himself.

"Oh sweet, new Protest the Hero...
Oh sweet, another 10 tracks with the same theme of pegging Christians as morons and complaining about organized religion"

Why can't they bitch about the music industry or something that ACTUALLY affects them in life? It's such a tired cliche' for metal bands to go down that road that I just can't take anything they say seriously.

"Hey we're the Acacia Strain and we love to goof around in our videos and have fun...but tonight let's talk about how much we hate that there are still people in this world that believe in God. YEAH FUCK THEM." The crowd roars and I roll my eyes. It's sad what can win a crowd over. And I personally know a few of these bands that really do uphold the Satanic/666 message and don't give a fuck about anything one way or another. It's ridiculous.


And for the record- I am a huge Protest the Hero fan, Acacia Strain fan, and I don't consider myself a Christian, or go to church, or believe in/deny the possibility of God.


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## jaketheripper (Jul 26, 2011)

TheFerryMan said:


> antestor (christian black metal, wat )


You might say its... White metal!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

A major MAJOR pet peeve of mine and I'll avoid the rant. But there is no such thing as Christian Black Metal..and anyone who claims there is is sadly mistaken to put it nicely.


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## DLG (Jul 26, 2011)

the lyrics do get annoying after a while, that's why Extol rule so hard. They are a Christian band but the lyrics are only subtly Christian, not overbearing. 

always liked this band, used to call them Doomryche because that's what they sounded like to me  candlemass-like doom mixed with Quuensryche.


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## Seventary (Jul 26, 2011)

jaketheripper said:


> You might say its... White metal!



It is actaually called white-metal or unblack-metal. To me it's all metal and I listen lots of different bands regardless of genre. Good music is good music. I'm in no sense a christian, but 2 of my favorite bands are Extol and Mantric. I'm not bothered by the christian message in their lyrics.


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 26, 2011)

Good music is simply good music. As long as the ideology isn't promoted at the expense of music or as a marketing ploy I actually couldn't care less if it's post-martian-neo-goat-molestation metal.....

Extol. Impressive


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## baptizedinblood (Jul 26, 2011)

Christian-based metal doesn't bother me, as long as the band isn't running around promoting themselves using the Christian part as a marketing tool or practically preaching in their lyrics.


Some good examples of amazing bands that happen to be Christian would be underOath or Impending Doom. Neither are too preachy.
Bad example would be something along the lines of The Devil Wears Prada. :




ShadyDavey said:


> Good music is simply good music. As long as the ideology isn't promoted at the expense of music or as a marketing ploy I actually couldn't care less if it's post-martian-neo-goat-molestation metal.....



Quoted for truth.


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> A major MAJOR pet peeve of mine and I'll avoid the rant. But there is no such thing as Christian Black Metal..and anyone who claims there is is sadly mistaken to put it nicely.



That's why Antestor call themselves "dark metal", although I don't quite understand how that's any better as a label.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> A major MAJOR pet peeve of mine and I'll avoid the rant. But there is no such thing as Christian Black Metal..and anyone who claims there is is sadly mistaken to put it nicely.



A major MAJOR pet peeve of mine is people that are so far obscured from the fact that black metal is more defined by a particular sound now, not trve kvlt garbage.

All music is what you make of it.



Uncreative123 said:


> Why can't they bitch about the music industry or something that ACTUALLY affects them in life? It's such a tired cliche' for metal bands to go down that road that I just can't take anything they say seriously



truth


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## Inazone (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> That's why Antestor call themselves "dark metal", although I don't quite understand how that's any better as a label.



Because "dark metal" doesn't mean anything. It was invented for people who don't want to describe something as death/black/doom/goth/whatever even though any one (or more) existing genre is valid. 

As far as black metal is concerned, it's just a style at this point. Sure, there are still those bands (and fans) that will say that black metal _has_ to be Satanic, but then they can't agree on what exactly defines something as being Satanic. Is it the ultimate expression of self-reliance? Is it actually the worship of Satan? Is Satan an actual entity or more of an underlying concept or essence? For that matter, there are plenty who will argue that melodic death metal isn't death metal at all because of the lyrical content.

I understand that there is some validity in categorizing bands by style, but too many people try way too hard to adhere to media-defined genres. If someone asks me about my own band, I just say that there are death/black/thrash influences, but that we are a "concept metal" band and that the musical style has to fit the theme or mood expressed in the lyrics. So, in that regard, I guess I could appreciate Christian metal as its own genre. But it doesn't do ANYTHING to describe the music.


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## noob_pwn (Jul 26, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Always makes the band less enjoyable for me when I have to listen to track after track, album after album about how 'dumb' people are for living their lives like 'sheep' and believing in God. I personally think it's a really bad stereotype for metal and I try to distance myself from it. There are far bigger issues in the world right now than your neighbor who goes to church on Wed. & Sunday and keeps to himself.
> 
> "Oh sweet, new Protest the Hero...
> Oh sweet, another 10 tracks with the same theme of pegging Christians as morons and complaining about organized religion"
> ...



I know it's OT but as if you can say that the church, religion and christianity doesn't affect these said artists in real life.


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## The McThief (Jul 26, 2011)

CrushingAnvil said:


> I'm actually having a lol fest over August Burns Red and Underoath being Metal to these people



Smells like a genre argument is destined to happen


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> A major MAJOR pet peeve of mine is people that are so far obscured from the fact that black metal is more defined by a particular sound now, not trve kvlt garbage.
> 
> All music is what you make of it.
> 
> ...



Black metal at it's very essence is anti-christian music. It didn't get it's name from it's sound, but it's themes and the emotions from the music. Everything about the music is anti-christian and God says to stay away from such things..not turn it into something you can do even though you aren't supposed to. From a Christian standpoint it makes no sense, from a Black Metal standpoint it makes no sense..either way..there is no such thing as Christian black metal. That's like saying I'm a white supremacist but I voted for Obama, love rap music, donate to the homeless gay minority fund, and date a black person of the same sex..clearly I would have to check my priorities. You can't claim to be a person of God yet dabble in "darkness" while giving it some other name so you can feel better about doing it.

Now people can neg-rep me and get all in a hissy over it, but if it's "Christian" than it isn't "black metal". Can't play both sides of the fence.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 26, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> "Oh sweet, new Protest the Hero...
> Oh sweet, another 10 tracks with the same theme of pegging Christians as morons and complaining about organized religion"


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Black metal at it's very essence is anti-christian music. It didn't get it's name from it's sound, but it's themes and the emotions from the music. Everything about the music is anti-christian and God says to stay away from such things..not turn it into something you can do even though you aren't supposed to. From a Christian standpoint it makes no sense, from a Black Metal standpoint it makes no sense..either way..there is no such thing as Christian black metal. That's like saying I'm a white supremacist but I voted for Obama, love rap music, donate to the homeless gay minority fund, and date a black person of the same sex..clearly I would have to check my priorities. You can't claim to be a person of God yet dabble in "darkness" while giving it some other name so you can feel better about doing it.
> 
> Now people can neg-rep me and get all in a hissy over it, but if it's "Christian" than it isn't "black metal". Can't play both sides of the fence.



So would you just call a Christian band who had a black metal sound a Christian band or something else?


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## GalacticDeath (Jul 26, 2011)




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## ShadyDavey (Jul 26, 2011)

Perhaps "Christian Black Metal" denotes musical rather than lyrical/ideological affiliation.....unless they're either being totally ironic, can't think of a similar genre title that will afford similar debate and discussion (no publicity is bad publicity) or don't see the need to worry about labels. 

*shrug*


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Xiphos68 said:


> So would you just call the band who had a black metal sound a Christian band or something else?



It wouldn't be Black Metal..it's about more than just a style. My major issue is why a supposed Christian would want to imitate a style that's all about being anti-christian. I've said in many posts before that I'm not against Christianity nor do I have a chip on my shoulder about the religion, so it's not that. But I find it interesting that one who decides to side with a religion that orders them to stay away from all things ungodly, would listen to some of the most ungodly music there is, then imitate it while trying to pretend it's something else. 

To that end I think Slayer is a joke because Tomy Arraya as a religious person makes a living out of telling kids that the bible isn't worth shit.

I think rappers who make their money by telling inner city black kids to fuck the police and distrust white people, all while using their money to live in rich "white" areas and send their kids to the nicest richest "whitest" schools they can find are disgusting.

You can't ride both sides of the fence and supposedly stand for something when you don't even believe it yourself.

But back to black metal, it's centered on an anti-christian idea, be it Satanist, pagan, or whatever. As a Christian, if you're supposed to stay away from such things then you probably wouldn't even listen to it, so in that genre who would be your influences? Why would you listen to a genre of music that's purposely about misery, death, anger, hatred, and anti-christian themes? The music itself is designed to be unpleasant and dark, not exactly a Christian mindset. 

It's an extreme contradiction where two ideologies can't co-exist. You can't love God while dressing like a corpse and playing music that is all about darkness and hate.


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## Bribanez (Jul 26, 2011)

Inazone said:


> I guess I could appreciate Christian metal as its own genre. But it doesn't do ANYTHING to describe the music.


 

I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I think "Christian Metal" blatantly describes the music. 

But as I write this, now that i think of it, maybe it better desribes the lyrical content than the music itself. 

If you take the lyrics out of Deicide songs I guess it's no longer "satanic".
If they replaced "Jesus" or "Satan" with "bunny" would it then be Bunny Metal?


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bribanez said:


> I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I think "Christian Metal" blatantly describes the music.
> 
> But as I write this, now that i think of it, maybe it better desribes the lyrical content than the music itself.
> 
> ...


No, it would be Death Metal, which is what it is. Christian Metal tells me nothing about what the music sounds like, thus it fails spectacularly as a genre label.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Bribanez said:


> I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I think "Christian Metal" blatantly describes the music.
> 
> But as I write this, now that i think of it, maybe it better desribes the lyrical content than the music itself.
> 
> ...



Lol..Bunny metal..

I wouldn't call Deicide "satanic"..Death metal surely..but Satanic..meh..not so much.


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## Inazone (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Black metal at it's very essence is anti-christian music. It didn't get it's name from it's sound, but it's themes and the emotions from the music. Everything about the music is anti-christian and God says to stay away from such things..not turn it into something you can do even though you aren't supposed to. From a Christian standpoint it makes no sense, from a Black Metal standpoint it makes no sense..either way..there is no such thing as Christian black metal. That's like saying I'm a white supremacist but I voted for Obama, love rap music, donate to the homeless gay minority fund, and date a black person of the same sex..clearly I would have to check my priorities. You can't claim to be a person of God yet dabble in "darkness" while giving it some other name so you can feel better about doing it.



As much as I agree about the _essence_ of black metal being what you described, that essence has been ignored over the past 10+ (maybe even 20) years by many bands of what I suppose could be considered a "blackened" metal style. If established bands have been playing what they consider black metal for that long, you can't really fault the newer bands for describing themselves as black metal based simply on musical style. If not for the not-really-black-metal bands who have represented the genre for the past decade, the originators of the genre would exist solely in a niche that wouldn't be on the radar of anyone but the most dedicated metal fan.

If you want to specify _Satanic black metal_ to make it very clear that it's based on lyrical content more than musical style, then that leaves the door open for _Christian black metal_, _Hot Topic black metal_ and _inoffensive-and-deliberately-poorly-produced-with-awesome-gear black metal_. I mean, I think of all Death albums as being death metal, but some people insist that only Scream Bloody Gore was a death metal album. Well, was it _brutal death metal _as opposed to later _technical _or _progressive_ death metal? To me it's just death metal, and black metal is just black metal. 

Then I throw on an Akercocke CD and don't know what the fuck to call it.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 26, 2011)

I rly wanted to make a picture of jesus with the black and white facepaint on but I couldn't be assed.

So you guys can imagine it for yourself.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Inazone said:


> As much as I agree about the _essence_ of black metal being what you described, that essence has been ignored over the past 10+ (maybe even 20) years by many bands of what I suppose could be considered a "blackened" metal style. If established bands have been playing what they consider black metal for that long, you can't really fault the newer bands for describing themselves as black metal based simply on musical style. If not for the not-really-black-metal bands who have represented the genre for the past decade, the originators of the genre would exist solely in a niche that wouldn't be on the radar of anyone but the most dedicated metal fan.
> 
> If you want to specify _Satanic black metal_ to make it very clear that it's based on lyrical content more than musical style, then that leaves the door open for _Christian black metal_, _Hot Topic black metal_ and _inoffensive-and-deliberately-poorly-produced-with-awesome-gear black metal_. I mean, I think of all Death albums as being death metal, but some people insist that only Scream Bloody Gore was a death metal album. Well, was it _brutal death metal _as opposed to later _technical _or _progressive_ death metal? To me it's just death metal, and black metal is just black metal.
> 
> Then I throw on an Akercocke CD and don't know what the fuck to call it.



I don't think that "Satanic black metal" is even needed because it's redundant. It's like saying Christian gospel. Not to say that all BM is Satanic, but the whole point of the music was to be the opposition to Christianity. It all has Satanic qualities just in the feel of the music alone. The difference between BM and DM is that DM wasn't set on a specific ideology besides just being offensive. Black Metal's sole purpose is to represent everything "evil" and "dark". Depression, hate, misery, godlessness, Satan, heathenism, all of these things are represented not just in the lyrics but in the music as it's supposed to be unpleasant and as far from "light and pretty" as one can get. Be it good or bad it's pretty much etched it's entire existence out of those themes.

As for Death metal..I've often wondered myself. It's an extremely wide genre with many subject matters, and I suppose it's widened enough to allow for things other than "kill rape and mutilate". If it reaches from those ideas is it death metal? I suppose as long as that death metal feel is there then it's death metal..however as a personal thing I don't like the euro-melodic DM stuff because to me it's too pretty. Personally I like my Death Metal negative and mean. DM can be debated for days on end.


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## Explorer (Jul 26, 2011)

Bribanez said:


> Ehh....not really. I meant gay is in cheesy. Not gay as in orientation. There was no insult intended. That you took it that way and made that assumption is.....a bit telling. *laugh*



It's just that I hear things where people use insults like "to Jew down the price" and other things, and assume that the person has a viewpoint where, for example, Jews are cheap, or that gay people are stupid or "cheesy." 

Not gay or Jewish myself, I just hate casual bigotry in language. Carry on, though... although again, the irony of not caring about that contrasted by the profession of faith is hilarious.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I've heard a few Becoming The Archetype songs and I liked what I heard. I found out much later they were a "christian" band and I was surprised. Normally christian and metal are two things that are destined for failure, but some bands pull it off.



EDIT: I had them confused with Fragments Of Unbecoming...they're the band I like..and I don't think they're Christian..false alarm. I could be wrong.

Becoming The Archetype is not appealing to my ears...at all. Just me though.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I suppose as long as that death metal feel is there then it's death metal.. DM can be debated for days on end.



same with black metal, pop, country, rock, jazz, rap

you're talking in circles, and over-thinking it
it doesnt matter what it was founded on, its changed, it can be described as much as it can be crafted

you DONT HAVE to accept it being called what it is, but you cannot dictate it either


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## bennerman (Jul 26, 2011)

God doesn't like metal. Hell, god doesn't even want us to make stuff out if metal. It must be made out of wood (for Jesus was a carpenter). Anyways, the only good music comes with a flute and an organ, and screaming in church is a sin anyway. Christian Metal is sinful, and you are all going to hell


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> same with black metal, pop, country, rock, jazz, rap
> 
> you're talking in circles, and over-thinking it
> it doesnt matter what it was founded on, its changed, it can be described as much as it can be crafted
> ...



No..not the same as black metal. That's like saying Nazi music can be about loving all races equally.

We can agree to disagree on the matter though. I think that'll work best.


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It all has Satanic qualities just in the feel of the music alone.



Haha. Please explain. In what way did minor chords, trem-picking and blast beats become inherently infused with the essence of Satan?


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> No..not the same as black metal. That's like saying Nazi music can be about loving all races equally.
> 
> We can agree to disagree on the matter though. I think that'll work best.



Calling something "Nazi" music inherently refers to the lyrical content, though. Black metal is strongly associated with Satanism, occult and darker subject matter, but those are not intrinsic to the music itself. You could write a black metal song about absolutely any subject you wanted to; you could make a black metal song about holding hands and friendship and sunshine, and it wouldn't be any less black metal MUSICALLY because of it. The disagreement here is about whether the message of the original practitioners of the style was inextricably linked to the music itself, and the same thing happens in punk. People argue about whether a certain band is punk based on musically sounding similar to other punk artists, or if punk is an attitude that's separate from the music. You're trying to have it both ways, though.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> Haha. Please explain. In what way did minor chords, trem-picking and blast beats become inherently infused with the essence of Satan?



The word Satan in itself means opposer or adversary and has a dark and wicked connotation. Black Metal is unsettling and is meant to be unpleasant to the normal standards. It's very much Satanic, not in the sense of a red man with a pitchfork, but in the ideas of Satanism and what the name means.



yingmin said:


> Calling something "Nazi" music inherently refers to the lyrical content, though. Black metal is strongly associated with Satanism, occult and darker subject matter, but those are not intrinsic to the music itself. You could write a black metal song about absolutely any subject you wanted to; you could make a black metal song about holding hands and friendship and sunshine, and it wouldn't be any less black metal MUSICALLY because of it. The disagreement here is about whether the message of the original practitioners of the style was inextricably linked to the music itself, and the same thing happens in punk. People argue about whether a certain band is punk based on musically sounding similar to other punk artists, or if punk is an attitude that's separate from the music. You're trying to have it both ways, though.



That's the issue, black metal is a mindset and musical style. With all the styles of Black Metal out there, from Venom to Black Witchery, Xasthur, and Dimmu Borgir, the one thing they have in common is that feel which is unique to the genre. Both the mindset and the music go hand in hand and in my opinion you can't have one without the other. I'm not debating just the music, I'm debating the mindset that fuels the music and saying that you can't cut out what you don't like and add a Christian theme because Black metal music relies on the black metal mindset. Try taking the black metal mindset and putting it in Christian praise music and you'll find it's highly ineffectual. Same goes for trying to put a Christian spin on black metal music. It doesn't have the same effect.


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

What may be unpleasant to you is not universally unpleasant. You are projecting a cultural/ideological aesthetic onto a pure texture of sound, and to be honest, it makes no sense. For example, a normal I IV V progression sounds disgustingly horrid to Allan Holdsworth. Is all pop music therefore Satanic? I guess your logic is based in the idea that the majority opinion = truth.


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## liamh (Jul 26, 2011)

Extol are sooo good


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> What may be unpleasant to you is not universally unpleasant. You are projecting a cultural/ideological aesthetic onto a pure texture of sound, and to be honest, it makes no sense. For example, a normal I IV V progression sounds disgustingly horrid to Allan Holdsworth. Is all pop music therefore Satanic? I guess your logic is based in the idea that the majority opinion = truth.



Apparently all black metal musicians must be delusional then seeing as though the style is meant to be dark and different from the normal pleasantries of ballads and pop music. Personally I love black metal and find it beautiful, but it's hard to claim that this:



is just as "pretty" as this:



And actually there's a lot of pop music and classical music that is Satanic in nature. As said before I don't mean the usual circus "kill jesus" nonsense when I say Satanic..but the actual religion.


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

Who gives a fuck what the lyrics are if they're unintelligible anyway? As far as I'm concerned every black metal band could be screaming about how stupid people are to believe that their lyrics mean anything.

I LIKE JUICE


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Who gives a fuck what the lyrics are if they're unintelligible anyway? As far as I'm concerned every black metal band could be screaming about how stupid people are to believe that their lyrics mean anything.
> 
> I LIKE JUICE



Lmao. I love you


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

It's only delusional to claim that 'black metal' as a genre should be defined by different parameters than any other form of music (i.e. the actual music). And I could easily see someone thinking the first song is more pleasant than the second. If everything perceived as 'bad' or 'dark' or 'unpleasant' is associated with Satan or anti-Christianity, and everything 'good' or 'diatonic' or 'happy' is...what? Christian, I suppose, logically, as that's the opposite of anti-Christian...then you've succeeded in dividing the entire human endeavor of music into two halves...Christian and anti-Christian, and this gives you no descriptive information whatsoever, and merely ensured that any real musician will not take anything you say seriously.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> It's only delusional to claim that 'black metal' as a genre should be defined by different parameters than any other form of music (i.e. the actual music). And I could easily see someone thinking the first song is more pleasant than the second. If everything perceived as 'bad' or 'dark' or 'unpleasant' is associated with Satan or anti-Christianity, and everything 'good' or 'diatonic' or 'happy' is...what? Christian, I suppose, logically, as that's the opposite of anti-Christian...then you've succeeded in dividing the entire human endeavor of music into two halves...Christian and anti-Christian, and this gives you no descriptive information whatsoever, and merely ensured that any real musician will not take anything you say seriously.



I suppose you're more than qualified to explain black metal, even to the originators of the music who would seem to disagree with you about what it is. Clearly perception is everything and nothing is constant, however if you're going to say that the widespread opinion of black metal would be that it's light and pleasant on the ears, I'd say you're sadly mistaken. Seeing as though I did say that there is Satanic music in many genres I would think that you would know by now that it doesn't all have to be "evil sounding" as that's not what the religion is about. Clearly what's meant by Satanic is the cause for confusion. Instead of me sitting here trying to go into detail, I suggest you read up on it and it may help. Otherwise we'll just be arguing in circles without discussing the actual issue at hand.


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I suppose you're more than qualified to explain black metal, even to the originators of the music who would seem to disagree with you about what it is. Clearly perception is everything and nothing is constant, however if you're going to say that the widespread opinion of black metal would be that it's light and pleasant on the ears, I'd say you're sadly mistaken. Seeing as though I did say that there is Satanic music in many genres I would think that you would know by now that it doesn't all have to be "evil sounding" as that's not what the religion is about. Clearly what's meant by Satanic is the cause for confusion. Instead of me sitting here trying to go into detail, I suggest you read up on it and it may help. Otherwise we'll just be arguing in circles without discussing the actual issue at hand.



I get that you're saying that black metal must have two components, Satanic ideology and evil-sounding music. My argument is that this leaves no term for the music itself, and also that evil-sounding is entirely subjective. But yeah this is a silly discussion. I'll just go listen to Windir, who are considered black metal but do not sound at all unpleasant, and I don't know or care what their lyrical content consists of. The finger points at the moon.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> I get that you're saying that black metal must have two components, Satanic ideology and evil-sounding music. My argument is that this leaves no term for the music itself, and also that evil-sounding is entirely subjective. But yeah this is a silly discussion. I'll just go listen to Windir, who are considered black metal but do not sound at all unpleasant, and I don't know or care what their lyrical content consists of. The finger points at the moon.


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## Dan (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I suppose you're more than qualified to explain black metal, even to the originators of the music who would seem to disagree with you about what it is.



I'm from Newcastle, true home of black metal  HOORAY FOR VENOM!!

And i say Christianity is a religion, much like Budhism and Satanism. Black is a colour and to a certain extent a mood.

Christian metal is based on a lyrical theme, not a musical one.

Black metal is based on a lyrical AND musical theme. It has evolved that way over the years. There are exceptions to the rule (see christian black metal for the lulz) but each to their own.

Christian metal doesn't have a set 'sound' so classing it as a genre is stupid and useless. Just means the people that sing in a band are going IHEARTGOD rather than AAAAAGGHHHHH SATAN.

It would be like saying that in this new fangled 'DJENT' genre all the cool kids are going on about people singing about whatever the hell a djent is supposed to be nowadays... i am assuming it is a half arsed breakdown and spastic 32nd notes played at random.

Christian metal as a genre is silly. YOU ARE SILLY. STOP IT! 

I ALSO LIKE JUICE.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Black Metal is unsettling and is meant to be unpleasant to the normal standards.



Thats you're opinion. You're going out of your way to make black metal seem like its something only satanists can make, and has to be "un-anything" really.
If that were the case, black metal would just be an underground cyst with such a narrow view of creativity.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's the issue, black metal is a mindset and musical style. Both the mindset and the music go hand in hand and in my opinion you can't have one without the other.
> 
> I'm not debating just the music, I'm debating the mindset that fuels the music and saying that you can't cut out what you don't like and add a Christian theme because Black metal music relies on the black metal mindset.
> 
> Try taking the black metal mindset and putting it in Christian praise music and you'll find it's highly ineffectual. Same goes for trying to put a Christian spin on black metal music. It doesn't have the same effect.



Black metal is a genre of music, _not _a mindset. You _can _have one without the other (notice you described them as separate, not the same...)

You keep saying that its an effect on music. You can "Christianize" "Satanize" "Raptor-Jesusize" any music you want. The music stays the same. Notes, chords and beats do not worship anyone or thing.



PTP said:


> It's only delusional to claim that 'black metal' as a genre should be defined by different parameters than any other form of music (i.e. the actual music). And I could easily see someone thinking the first song is more pleasant than the second. If everything perceived as 'bad' or 'dark' or 'unpleasant' is associated with Satan or anti-Christianity, and everything 'good' or 'diatonic' or 'happy' is...what? Christian, I suppose, logically, as that's the opposite of anti-Christian...then you've succeeded in dividing the entire human endeavor of music into two halves...Christian and anti-Christian, and this gives you no descriptive information whatsoever, and merely ensured that any real musician will not take anything you say seriously.



i wish i could posi rep you a thousand times for this

EDIT: who doesnt like juice???


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## Inazone (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I don't think that "Satanic black metal" is even needed because it's redundant. It's like saying Christian gospel. Not to say that all BM is Satanic, but the whole point of the music was to be the opposition to Christianity. It all has Satanic qualities just in the feel of the music alone. The difference between BM and DM is that DM wasn't set on a specific ideology besides just being offensive. Black Metal's sole purpose is to represent everything "evil" and "dark". Depression, hate, misery, godlessness, Satan, heathenism, all of these things are represented not just in the lyrics but in the music as it's supposed to be unpleasant and as far from "light and pretty" as one can get. Be it good or bad it's pretty much etched it's entire existence out of those themes.



I appreciate what you're saying, but as soon as the musical style of black metal was adopted by non-Satanic bands and described as black metal by fans, the media and the music industry, it (in my opinion) became necessary to specify if a particular band was Satanic. To me, it really has reached the point where the lyrical deviation from the all-encompassing "style" is what really defines ANY band that has an underlying message or theme. 

Some of my favorite bands are those that fused aspects of black metal and death metal - Dissection, Zyklon and (based on limited exposure) Akercocke to name a few - and those three are pretty direct in their lyrics. I think of them as expressing their own beliefs and/or opposition to religion. Then there "theme-based" bands like Nile and Ex Deo that are essentially writing about a particular time period or events, which I find quite interesting. A Christian-_themed_ band could easily replace the latter bands' lyrics with something in a Biblical context and nobody would so much as blink at it, because the vibe wouldn't necessarily be all that different. If you then go back to the previous three bands I mentioned, you're getting back into belief systems, and applying Christian lyrics to the same degree as the Satanic/pagan/anti-religious lyrics would come across as very heavy-handed. Furthermore, the entire atmosphere of black metal just doesn't mesh with Christian lyrics.

Of course, there's always the matter of what actually constitutes Christian lyrics. Considering what passes for "Christian" these days, the bands themselves might not even know where they stand.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> Thats you're opinion. You're going out of your way to make black metal seem like its something only satanists can make, and has to be "un-anything" really.
> If that were the case, black metal would just be an underground cyst with such a narrow view of creativity.
> 
> 
> ...


 If you don't understand how music is created to fit with emotion..then I don't really know how else to explain it to you. Want a love song? You don't put it to violent sounding music. Want violence? Don't put it to a love ballad. Since the music of black metal is designed to be partnered with the mentality, it sounds the way it does.

Black metal was as you've described it, for quite some time. It's gaining popularity and has branched out, but let's not pretend that any music can just be put to anything and still have intended impact. Do you have to be a Satanist to make black metal..no..can you be a person of god promoting a flagrantly godless form a music..I'd say it's a serious contradiction. You might not agree, but that's the way I see it. And going by the rules of Christianity and what black metal is..I'd still say there is no such thing as Christian black metal since there is a serious conflict of interest. Of course I'm not expecting you to agree, but the topic is a pet peeve of mine and a couple others on this forum. Just stating an opinion.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Inazone said:


> I appreciate what you're saying, but as soon as the musical style of black metal was adopted by non-Satanic bands and described as black metal by fans, the media and the music industry, it (in my opinion) became necessary to specify if a particular band was Satanic. To me, it really has reached the point where the lyrical deviation from the all-encompassing "style" is what really defines ANY band that has an underlying message or theme.
> 
> Some of my favorite bands are those that fused aspects of black metal and death metal - Dissection, Zyklon and (based on limited exposure) Akercocke to name a few - and those three are pretty direct in their lyrics. I think of them as expressing their own beliefs and/or opposition to religion. Then there "theme-based" bands like Nile and Ex Deo that are essentially writing about a particular time period or events, which I find quite interesting. A Christian-_themed_ band could easily replace the latter bands' lyrics with something in a Biblical context and nobody would so much as blink at it, because the vibe wouldn't necessarily be all that different. If you then go back to the previous three bands I mentioned, you're getting back into belief systems, and applying Christian lyrics to the same degree as the Satanic/pagan/anti-religious lyrics would come across as very heavy-handed. Furthermore, the entire atmosphere of black metal just doesn't mesh with Christian lyrics.
> 
> Of course, there's always the matter of what actually constitutes Christian lyrics. Considering what passes for "Christian" these days, the bands themselves might not even know where they stand.



Now that makes sense. All BM isn't Satanic..and most of the bands making supposed "satanic" black metal are clearly all show and most of the stupidity with it has nothing to do with Satanism..but even taking away the Satan from it, the music itself just doesn't fit with the Christian perspective. Dark, seedy, ethereal type music doesn't inspire one to think of Heaven and Eternal love and light. I can't possibly imagine something like Watain with Christian lyrics..the imagery the music brings and the lyrics that would replace Watains would be a dire contrast. Much like the many youtube songs that are bouncy and fun, with severely contrasting lyrics for the purpose of comedy.


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Now that makes sense. All BM isn't Satanic..and most of the bands making supposed "satanic" black metal are clearly all show and most of the stupidity with it has nothing to do with Satanism..but even taking away the Satan from it, the music itself just doesn't fit with the Christian perspective. Dark, seedy, ethereal type music doesn't inspire one to think of Heaven and Eternal love and light. I can't possibly imagine something like Watain with Christian lyrics..the imagery the music brings and the lyrics that would replace Watains would be a dire contrast. Much like the many youtube songs that are bouncy and fun, with severely contrasting lyrics for the purpose of comedy.



You're ascribing your own perceptions and preferences to everyone else, though. I don't listen to black metal to make me feel dark and somber, or angry and spiteful at God, or anything like that. I listen to it because I enjoy the music. I can switch from Mayhem to Roy Orbison and feel no contradiction, because although they're very different musically and lyrically, I enjoy them in basically the same way. If I suddenly became a Christian right now, I find it extremely difficult to believe that I'd stop enjoying extreme music. There's nothing fundamentally incongruous about a Christian listening to violent, aggressive or anti-Christian music. Moreover, I'm curious why you think you have a right to tell Christians how they should be practicing their own religion.


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Now that makes sense. All BM isn't Satanic..and most of the bands making supposed "satanic" black metal are clearly all show and most of the stupidity with it has nothing to do with Satanism..but even taking away the Satan from it, the music itself just doesn't fit with the Christian perspective. Dark, seedy, ethereal type music doesn't inspire one to think of Heaven and Eternal love and light. I can't possibly imagine something like Watain with Christian lyrics..the imagery the music brings and the lyrics that would replace Watains would be a dire contrast. Much like the many youtube songs that are bouncy and fun, with severely contrasting lyrics for the purpose of comedy.



I don't know... some Christian people and stories are pretty filled with violence and/or hate. I could see some Christian black metal bands with songs like God Hates Fags  or stories of the crusades, burning people at the stake, all of the cool Old Testament stories with vengeful smiting, the rapture, etc.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 26, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> I don't know... some Christian people and stories are pretty filled with violence and/or hate. I could see some Christian black metal bands with songs like God Hates Fags  or stories of the crusades, burning people at the stake, all of the cool Old Testament stories with vengeful smiting, the rapture, etc.



That would be pretty metal.


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

^ OMG that last one is awesome, all I can think of is Spinal Tap "Smell The Glove"


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## The Somberlain (Jul 26, 2011)

And these are particularly opposed to Chritianity?


























Sure, none of these have anything explicit to do with Christianity, but the etherial, yearning, and sometimes strangely beautiful can be associated with St. Augustine's Confessions, the works of CS Lewis or Boethius' the Consolation of Philosophy


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'm only going by the Bible. If the Bible is the rulebook for Christianity then I would think that Christians would follow it. Seeing as though the rulebook says Christians are supposed to stay away from evil, demons, sin, black magic etc..ya know..all the things Black Metal celebrates..I would think there would be a conflict of interest.


Again, though, the "evil, demons, sin, black magic etc" are not in the music itself. I maintain that there's no type of musical expression that is innately incompatible with a Christian message. Black metal bands might use Satanic imagery in their lyrics, album covers, stage shows and so on, but none of that makes the actual music Satanic or evil. It's harsh and abrasive sounding, but not intrinsically evil. So if somebody enjoys the musical aspect of it, but ignores the imagery behind it, where's the conflict? To me, you're confusing things black metal musicians do with black metal itself, which is just as erroneous as confusing things that Christians do with Christianity.


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## AChRush1349 (Jul 26, 2011)

The Somberlain said:


> And these are particularly opposed to Chritianity?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not to be "that guy", but the pentagram in the logo of one of those pictures has a lot not to do with christianity.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Again, though, the "evil, demons, sin, black magic etc" are not in the music itself. I maintain that there's no type of musical expression that is innately incompatible with a Christian message. Black metal bands might use Satanic imagery in their lyrics, album covers, stage shows and so on, but none of that makes the actual music Satanic or evil. It's harsh and abrasive sounding, but not intrinsically evil. So if somebody enjoys the musical aspect of it, but ignores the imagery behind it, where's the conflict?



If the music itself is supposed to be angry, aggressive, haunting and sinister sounding..how can you put lyrics about loving God over it? Once again, many a youtube vid showcases songs where the lyrics don't match the music and the humor is apparent. Sinister music to a benevolent message doesn't exact sell as a cohesive package..at least not in my opinion.


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If the music itself is supposed to be angry, aggressive, haunting and sinister sounding..how can you put lyrics about loving God over it? Once again, many a youtube vid showcases songs where the lyrics don't match the music and the humor is apparent. Sinister music to a benevolent message doesn't exact sell as a cohesive package..at least not in my opinion.



I think that depends on how they play the message. Obviously, just screaming Michael W. Smith lyrics over black metal music would be incredibly corny, but that's not how it has to be. Take Antestor as an example:



I am in pain
I am... the cursed one

Life is not what it was meant to be
What I didn't ask for has now turned my way
Somewhere in a garden it all turned wrong
Things I once believed in have now turned evil

Yet I pray, "Deliver me from evil"
But another spell pulled me away

Will suicide break the ring of curse 
Tomorrow I'll be gone, so don't look for me

I am lying on my death-bed, with chaos in my mind
My life took more than it gave
Betrayed and deceived I will now pass away
And with the gun in my hand, my questions
Are soon to be answered

Will suicide break the ring of curse...

Satan and god, the thought passes my mind
Heaven and hell, it's not up to me
If the Christians that I've seen
Represent the true God of heaven
Then it's not a place that I want to be
But if I'm blinded, please open my eyes
And help me now...

Will suicide break the ring of curse
Tomorrow I'll be gone, then you'll be all alone


Not only is it musically dark, heavy and aggressive, even the lyrics are pretty dark. It's talking about suicide, dark magic and evil, but from the opposite perspective. Really, it makes perfect sense when you consider that the "Satanism" employed by black metal bands mostly consists of inverting Christian symbols.


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## Aaron Smith (Jul 26, 2011)

You know, one could rightfully argue that any music that lyrically tries to convince the listener that something else is more important than and/or philosophically more correct than the Bible's teachings, is Satanic. So in that way, a band who blatantly writes about Satan and puts upside down crosses in their artwork, is no more Satanic than Hoobastank trying to claim that there are many paths to God, or Mariah Carey trying to promote promiscuous sex. Satan doesn't have to care what someone believes, so long as they don't believe in Jesus...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Aaron Smith said:


> You know, one could rightfully argue that any music that lyrically tries to convince the listener that something else is more important than and/or philosophically more correct than the Bible's teachings, is Satanic. So in that way, a band who blatantly writes about Satan and puts upside down crosses in their artwork, is no more Satanic than Hoobastank trying to claim that there are many paths to God, or Mariah Carey trying to promote promiscuous sex. Satan doesn't have to care what someone believes, so long as they don't believe in Jesus...


I like the way you think


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

That makes my band Satanic too... Satanic Power Metal RAWR


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

All music is the devil. Everyone go to church now..


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## The Somberlain (Jul 26, 2011)

What do we do when we're supposed to sing hymns?


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If the music itself is supposed to be angry, aggressive, haunting and sinister sounding..how can you put lyrics about loving God over it? Once again, many a youtube vid showcases songs where the lyrics don't match the music and the humor is apparent. Sinister music to a benevolent message doesn't exact sell as a cohesive package..at least not in my opinion.




Um...Extol?

Also, there is a lot of brutal shit in Christianity, as has been mentioned. Why is everything so black and white for you?


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## Loomer (Jul 26, 2011)

I know Wolves in The Throne Room are vegans.. Does that count?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Loomer said:


> I know Wolves in The Throne Room are vegans.. Does that count?



Vegans?!?! WITCHCRAFT! BURN THE NON-BACON EATERS!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> Um...Extol?
> 
> Also, there is a lot of brutal shit in Christianity, as has been mentioned. Why is everything so black and white for you?



Dude I didn't make the rules of Christianity. I'm only saying what the books says. Didn't we agree to disagree on this?


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## Loomer (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Vegans?!?! WITCHCRAFT! BURN THE NON-BACON EATERS!



Hahahaha, I don't dare say anything to that for fear of the Vegan Mafia monitoring me 

(That's what you get for playing in a Hardcore band. Vegans. Every. Where.)


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Dude I didn't make the rules of Christianity. I'm only saying what the books says. Didn't we agree to disagree on this?



Oh yeah...we did. Carry on.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> Oh yeah...we did. Carry on.



Luv you!


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## yingmin (Jul 26, 2011)

PTP said:


> Um...Extol?
> 
> Also, there is a lot of brutal shit in Christianity, as has been mentioned. Why is everything so black and white for you?



Extol isn't really black metal. Of course, Extol really isn't any one thing at all, which is what's so great about them.


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Extol isn't really black metal. Of course, Extol really isn't any one thing at all, which is what's so great about them.



I know but they definitely have a sinister, dark sound. At least on the earlier stuff.


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## PTP (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Luv you!


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## Explorer (Jul 26, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If the music itself is supposed to be angry, aggressive, haunting and sinister sounding..how can you put lyrics about loving God over it? Once again, many a youtube vid showcases songs where the lyrics don't match the music and the humor is apparent. Sinister music to a benevolent message doesn't exact sell as a cohesive package..at least not in my opinion.





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Dude I didn't make the rules of Christianity. I'm only saying what the books says. Didn't we agree to disagree on this?



Have you actually read through Revelations? 

I'm sorry, but inserting passages about God's love into Revelations would not match, and (as you say) the humor is apparent. Sinister visions, and (in other places in the Bible) violence against those who don't measure up to your Deity's standards, matched with a benevolent message doesn't exactly sell as a cohesive package... unless one glosses over the bits about killing gays and adulterers with the proverbial Biblical and SS.org rock. 

Waid... dude... are you saying the Bible is incohesive in your opinion? 

Or, rather... are you saying that it's a different kind of incohesive, but just in your opinion?

You seem to be focused on the Yahweh love as a definition, while rejecting all the anger and wrath stuff, as well as the Apocalyptic stuff. Maybe you got the Condensed Version. 

In my opinion, of course.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 26, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Have you actually read through Revelations?
> 
> I'm sorry, but inserting passages about God's love into Revelations would not match, and (as you say) the humor is apparent. Sinister visions, and (in other places in the Bible) violence against those who don't measure up to your Deity's standards, matched with a benevolent message doesn't exactly sell as a cohesive package... unless one glosses over the bits about killing gays and adulterers with the proverbial Biblical and SS.org rock.
> 
> ...



Well the bible is full of contradictions..we won't even go there as it's not needed. But the main focus is being Christlike and all that. If we were to go by EVERYTHING in the bible then that would mean you could bang your mother or sister since incest is a recurring theme..but the book's main point is to help people live a more peaceful "Christlike" life. (Of course not including the killing, incest, murder, genocide, yadda yadda.)


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 26, 2011)

For the record, the Book of Revelations is so metal it's awesome. There's enough there to write 4 albums worth of any kind of metal.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 26, 2011)

There's lines in the later parts of the bible that are like *hey, never mind all that other stuff we said its wrong you probably shouldn't follow that if you don't wanna be a douche*

along with the gospels that didn't make it into the bible pretty much saying *yeah nah, that stuff is dumb just don't be a douche*


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## Inazone (Jul 27, 2011)

What makes this so interesting to me is that I'm probably part of the "problem" in that I am a Christian who is heavily influenced (musically) by black metal and death metal, and as such I incorporate those musical styles into my own writing. Furthermore, I include a lot of religious references into my lyrics, but without bias for or against a particular philosophy. The contents of the Old Testament - the bulk of the Bible's "fire and brimstone" if you will - contains some fascinating stuff, and much of it is interesting because it had nothing to do directly with Jesus, yet established some ground rules for the Israelites to set them apart from the other cultures in their part of the world. It never goes into any great detail about those other cultures, so some of it is that much more interesting because of what it _doesn't_ explain. If I had more time to dedicate to it, I'd spend hours each day researching other religions, ancient civilizations and the various myths and legends of each, because I think there is more truth in them than some of my <ahem> Christian "brethren" are comfortable acknowledging. Actually, what I find infuriating isn't some of the debates about whether the Bible is meant to be figurative or literal, but rather the fundamentalist brainwashing that leads some people to believe that if it isn't in the Bible at all, it didn't happen. To that, I say "bullshit". Historical record from that period might be spotty, but human civilization wasn't limited to the Middle East.

What I find funny - and some religious types should find unsettling - is that a lot of Satanic and pagan songwriters are so much better at their craft than their religious counterparts. The music seems (to me) to be played with so much more conviction, and I'd be lying if I didn't admit to finding it incredibly interesting. I actually consider it unfortunate that so much black metal had/has terrible production, because musically I enjoy it a great deal.


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 27, 2011)

Since these thread veered OT a long time ago:

I'm gonna build a black house for Jesus.


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## -One- (Jul 27, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> For the record, the Book of Revelations is so metal it's awesome. There's enough there to write 4 albums worth of any kind of metal.


This. Fucking this.
Not a Christian group (we have a Catholic, a Lutheran, two Athiests, and an Agnostic), but my band is currently working on a song where all of the lyrics are a direct quote of _Revelation 13:1-13:18_



> And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
> And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
> And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
> And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
> ...



Metal as fuck.


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## Varcolac (Jul 27, 2011)

I'd argue that a cannibalistic cult (this is my body, this is my blood) following a deity who let himself die is pretty metal on a conceptual level.

Dead gods and drinking blood? That's like, Mayan shit there, and they're totally metal.

Edit: not a christian, and I think defining a genre on its lyrical content is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Still, there's some thoroughly epic and weird stuff in the Pentateuch. Angels are so terrifying that their first words to mortals are usually BE NOT AFRAID.


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 27, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It's an extreme contradiction where two ideologies can't co-exist.



Don't know why, but this remind of one of my favorite candy commercials.



LOL. Just trying to lighten the mood.


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## troyguitar (Jul 27, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Who gives a fuck what the lyrics are if they're unintelligible anyway? As far as I'm concerned every black metal band could be screaming about how stupid people are to believe that their lyrics mean anything.
> 
> I LIKE JUICE



Curious to know who's negging me for this and other similar posts I've made, shoot me a PM I'd like to have a chat. Thanks


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## yingmin (Jul 27, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Curious to know who's negging me for this and other similar posts I've made, shoot me a PM I'd like to have a chat. Thanks



If they actually wanted to have a conversation, they wouldn't have anonymously neg-repped you. It's a coward's way to have the last word, and so often without even saying anything of substance in the first place.


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 27, 2011)

PTP said:


> Why is everything so black and white for you?



Maybe b/c those are the colors of CORPSE PAINT!!!!

lol. j/k.




As far as the argument that Drakkar is undertaking, I can see both sides, and I find that my opinion on it can change daily. 

I dunno, I can see a parallel of this with the "You can't play the Blues if you're not a poor negro that has been oppressed by white society" or "There's not such thing as happy Blues music" or "Southern Gospel is not real Gospel" or "The white men stole jazz from us" or "Australian Country Singer...WTH???"


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 27, 2011)

Can anyone recommend some Antichristian Gospel Choir music?


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## mithologian (Jul 27, 2011)

I like how this thread went from recomendations to discussion.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 27, 2011)

The bible is to "and" as a preppy highschool girl is to "like"


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## skeeballcore (Jul 27, 2011)

Enough arguing, post more Christian metal!

Christian metal in the vein of Meshuggah mixed with something totally its own


Djent + metal + awesome


Doing the Whitechapel thing, but keeping it more interesting



satan-hatin' Hardcore/metal 


7-string death-core before there was such a thing (members went on to form The Famine)


Living Sacrifice 


And Zao, the band and song that introduced me to Christian hardcore/metal


There are fewer awesome bands in the Christian genre for sure, but when they're awesome, they're beyond awesome, and usually put on twice the live performance that secular bands do in my experience. 

Sadly, I'm sure some do use it as marketing only, but those are pretty easy to pick apart in lyrics and interviews. 

I still listen to secular music, but 9 times out of 10, I'm listening to Christian music, whether metal or not. I believe Yeshua, Son of God, gave all for me, and if I can enjoy some awesome tunes while glorifying God, then by all means, I'll do it. 

If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. John 15:19

EDITED TO ADD: (won't embed for some reason)
Also, for the Extol fans, their new project MANTRIC!
&#x202a;MANTRIC - the asylum, live @ freakstock 2010&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube


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## Explorer (Jul 27, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> But the main focus is being Christlike and all that. If we were to go by EVERYTHING in the bible then that would mean you could bang your mother or sister since incest is a recurring theme..but the book's main point is to help people live a more peaceful "Christlike" life. (Of course not including the killing, incest, murder, genocide, yadda yadda.)



You said that there was nothing in Scripture which was congruous with the sound of black metal... and then you talked about Scripture containing "killing, incest, murder, genocide, yadda yadda."

Did you bother to read your own points?

I suspect that you just don't *want* there to be any congruity between any aspect of Christianity and the sound of black metal... and you therefore state that everyone should ignore what you insist we ignore.

----

Sorry, folks, I have no metal to post, but I've met Phil Keaggy several times, starting in the '80s. The most metal/prog/Christian band I listened to was King's X, but they stopped being Christian Contemporary because one of their members is gay, and that audience didn't have much love for that kind of thing. Gotta love the love and acceptance....


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 27, 2011)

Explorer said:


> You said that there was nothing in Scripture which was congruous with the sound of black metal... and then you talked about Scripture containing "killing, incest, murder, genocide, yadda yadda."
> 
> Did you bother to read your own points?
> 
> ...



Isn't this the second thread you've tried to pick an argument in with me? Whereas I'm flattered that my words touch you so much..it was agreed some time ago to let it go. I suggest you take a break from the computer since it's frustrating you so.


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## skeeballcore (Jul 27, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Isn't this the second thread you've tried to pick an argument in with me? Whereas I'm flattered that my words touch you so much..it was agreed some time ago to let it go. I suggest you take a break from the computer since it's frustrating you so.



I can't decide what you guys are arguing about

but if you want to hear Christian UNblack-metal

Check out HORDE! and Lengsel.


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## SenorDingDong (Jul 27, 2011)

Crimson Thorn


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## Hyliannightmare (Jul 27, 2011)

Monotheist


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 28, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Isn't this the second thread you've tried to pick an argument in with me? Whereas I'm flattered that my words touch you so much..it was agreed some time ago to let it go. I suggest you take a break from the computer since it's frustrating you so.



Iono drak, your just a disagreeable guy who has tons of nonsense arguments with many other people.

Maybe if *many* people are having nonsense arguments with the same *one* person its not the other people


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## Inazone (Jul 28, 2011)

Jstring said:


> Crimson Thorn



I saw them play with Crimson Moonlight and Alethian in Minneapolis several years ago. Now that I think about it, Alethian would probably be well-received by many people on this forum, as they were insanely technical and had great stage presence. I bought one of their CDs which unfortunately had a pretty rough production, but was impressive regardless.

Crimson Thorn was good, but not great. However, I'm basing that on one show. I guess they are technically a local band, and I think I've seen one or two of the members at local metal shows, but I hadn't seen/heard anything about them in years until you mentioned them.


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## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Jul 28, 2011)

When it comes to the good stuff from christianity (on which NO religion has a monopoly, as those morals are a byproduct of Natural Selection), Killswitch Engage is about the best.


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## skeeballcore (Jul 28, 2011)

kgad0831 said:


> When it comes to the good stuff from christianity (on which NO religion has a monopoly, as those morals are a byproduct of Natural Selection), Killswitch Engage is about the best.



That'd be funny if it were at all true.
Jesus didn't come from space, he wasn't a zombie, he doesn't want to remove an evil force from you (only to fill your life with his Word and love), and we are actually told to confess with our lips that Jesus is Lord, not use some X-men type power...but you know...whatever


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## ShadowFactoryX (Jul 28, 2011)

Inazone said:


> I saw them play with Crimson Moonlight and Alethian in Minneapolis several years ago. Now that I think about it, Alethian would probably be well-received by many people on this forum, as they were insanely technical and had great stage presence. I bought one of their CDs which unfortunately had a pretty rough production, but was impressive regardless.



Crimson Moonlight 

and Aletheian too
those guys are super nice, its a shame they've layed low for the past few years


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## stevemcqueen (Jul 28, 2011)

Bribanez said:


> I did expect some bashing just because the topic had "Christian" in it but still a little surprised by it.
> 
> I wasn't really asking for band recommendations, but, thanks. I like the scene and am aware of alot of the bands in it. Being a Christian, a guitar player and a metalhead I still listen to secular bands. And I don't really care about what "core" they fall into. As long as it's good, heavy and brutal I like it. I don't have a bias against "hardcore" or "deathcore". I guerss I'm not "scene" enough for some people. I don't like alot of the "suckcore" I hear, tho. But I do gravitate towards bands with a positive message.
> 
> ...



Some people are just assholes, man. I knew you would get a bunch of flak because apparently in metal it is cool to be against Jesus and stuff. I listen to good music, if it is a "Christian metal band" then that is a plus for me. By the way I think Wretched is a christian metal band and those guys are amazing.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 28, 2011)

skeeballcore said:


> That'd be funny if it were at all true.
> Jesus didn't come from space, he wasn't a zombie, he doesn't want to remove an evil force from you (only to fill your life with his Word and love), and we are actually told to confess with our lips that Jesus is Lord, not use some X-men type power...but you know...whatever



The cosmic part comes from people referring to god being in the heavens above us etc etc which was initially depicted as above the clouds since we hadn't reached there yet and is now somewhere in space because we got all the way out there.

The zombie part comes from jesus being you know... dead... and then on the 3rd day he... bahh nvm if you don't know this by now I dunno what to say.

I dunno where the evil force comes from, I mean he is supposed to be omnipotent so he would have to create the force he wants to remove from you and then choose not to remove it while wanting it removed  that parts just dumb.

and the telepathy thing is obviously referring to prayer, which people do... all the time.. and are told to do in private or in their heads... happens all the time... don't think I really need to explain that either.


Sorry not trying to support the picture but your counter argument was really bad. I didn't think any of that really needed explaining but apparently


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## Shrikkanth (Jul 29, 2011)

These guys are good mates of mine and they are Incredible :O. To me they're among the best Hardcore bands I've heard. I'm not Christian but the "I EXIST TO KNOW YOOOOURRR LOVE!!" choir part makes me Jizz uncontrollably.


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## The McThief (Jul 29, 2011)

skeeballcore said:


> Enough arguing, post more Christian metal!
> 
> Christian metal in the vein of Meshuggah mixed with something totally its own
> 
> ...




+1 to For Today!

And thanks for posting In the Midst of Lions! I've heard of those guys before, but haven't checked em out until now and I really dig them!


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## decypher (Jul 29, 2011)

Jesus, X-Men? Havent met either so far...


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 30, 2011)

Awesome neg I got:






for saying:



Uncreative123 said:


> Always makes the band less enjoyable for me when I have to listen to track after track, album after album about how 'dumb' people are for living their lives like 'sheep' and believing in God. I personally think it's a really bad stereotype for metal and I try to distance myself from it. There are far bigger issues in the world right now than your neighbor who goes to church on Wed. & Sunday and keeps to himself.
> 
> "Oh sweet, new Protest the Hero...
> Oh sweet, another 10 tracks with the same theme of pegging Christians as morons and complaining about organized religion"
> ...




Sorry, but another persons religious beliefs don't affect ME personally---especially if it's someone I never talk to or interact with or has any bearing on any aspect of my life. I don't care if you believe in God, or a Goat-Head demon God, or an eight-armed half-naked woman, an elephant with arms, or a an intergalactic being from another dimension. The kind of music you listen to and television shows you watch are going to be much more of an indicator of the type of person you are to me than your religion. If I know you watch and thoroughly enjoy shows like Jersey Shore, Keeping up with the Kardashians, Big Brother, and Real Housewives of _________ chances are I'm not going to get along with you. Even something YOU watch doesn't affect me directly (other than these shows never going off the air) but I'll judge you based on that before your religion. Weaksauce is weak.


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## Lon (Jul 31, 2011)

Religion is like a penis, its nice to have one, its ok to be proud of it, but please do not shove it down my childrens throats...


I think the biggest backlash against religion in metal/metal lyrics comes from a strong tradition of being anti-establishment in the beginnings of metal (and therefore anti-religion), and whilst i still loathe people who believe a zombie will bring them salvation or martyrdom will get them virgins i can accept their belief in it, i just cant accept the actions that come from believing in said bullsh*. Everytime a religious motivated murder or racist protests (think of the westborochurch-retards) occurs i just cant think of anything else than grasping the problem at its core, religion itself.

AND i do not even have a problem with religion in lyrics, for example i even kinda like ABR's epic good vs evil themes in certain songs, i just have a huge problem with overly present christian marketing whilst the band does not whatsoever represent any christian values or overly public display of christian traditions like praying with the crowd, this enrages me beyond belief, ESPECIALLY if people do not see behind the religion solely as marketing aspect.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 31, 2011)

Lon said:


> Everytime a religious motivated murder or racist protests (think of the westborochurch-retards) occurs i just cant think of anything else than grasping the problem at its core, religion itself.



I'm a devoutatheist and don't think religion is necessary or even makes sense but I really hate that argument. EXTREMISTS do these things, but compare the ratio of extremists to non-extremists. 

Think about how many equivalent acts of good come out of any given religion in a day vs the amount of extremism. For every 1 westboro baptist church lunatic there's got to be hundreds / thousands / hundreds of thousands of supportive, helpful, respectful theists. 

If you watched the bill O'riley interview with dawkins he mentions how 4 of the greatest mass murderers of modern time were all atheists and dawkins response was these people didn't do these things _because_ they were atheist. 

The same respect goes for fanatics / extremists, they don't do these things _because_ they're of a particular faith... otherwise everyone of that faith would be doing this, they do it because those specific people are crazy in whatever way and their mental state is unstable, and they simply use religion as their muse to do all these terrible things. 

But these people were likely to do extreme things regardless of what faith they do or don't follow, insane people don't stop being insane because they don't have religion... they'll find another reason to justify their acts.


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## Goro923 (Jul 31, 2011)

I just wanted to point out... if you count how many people have been brutally murdered by the Catholic Church I'm sure you wouldn't be so keen on following their mindwashing cult.

Religion used to be a way to keep everybody from behaving like total savages. If you're bad you're gonna burn. That's psycological terrorism. If in this day and age you believe that you have to be good because you might go to Hell and not because it's what you should do, that's just plain sad. I think of all the children intimidated by fucking sadicstic priests and it makes me want to break something.

If you seriously think that Christianity has done more right than wrong... think again.


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 31, 2011)

Goro923 said:


> I just wanted to point out... if you count how many people have been brutally murdered by the Catholic Church I'm sure you wouldn't be so keen on following their mindwashing cult.
> 
> Religion used to be a way to keep everybody from behaving like total savages. If you're bad you're gonna burn. That's psycological terrorism. If in this day and age you believe that you have to be good because you might go to Hell and not because it's what you should do, that's just plain sad. I think of all the children intimidated by fucking sadicstic priests and it makes me want to break something.
> 
> If you seriously think that Christianity has done more right than wrong... think again.



The Catholic Church and Christianity are not the same thing. 

Catholics have major different beliefs than Christians that follow the Bible (the Bibles are even different too). I don't know all the difference but there are some and you can't really put those different beliefs as the same thing.

They're a lot of people who have misrepresented Christianity and it's quite sad.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 31, 2011)

Goro923 said:


> If you seriously think that Christianity has done more right than wrong... think again.



Who mentioned christianity? I said theists and religious people...

I know about the crusades and the stepping all over everyone / think that the church did to promote its faith like a company pushes a product and why its thee most popular religion.

But you can't put what happened way back when on a scale vs what goes on now.


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## Lon (Jul 31, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I'm a devoutatheist and don't think religion is necessary or even makes sense but I really hate that argument. EXTREMISTS do these things, but compare the ratio of extremists to non-extremists.
> 
> Think about how many equivalent acts of good come out of any given religion in a day vs the amount of extremism. For every 1 westboro baptist church lunatic there's got to be hundreds / thousands / hundreds of thousands of supportive, helpful, respectful theists.
> 
> ...


i valid your opinion but i am firmly stating that religion has done more bad than good at anytime in history, including now, i do not promote the absence of morals or doing good acts, i just resent religion and the included "reward-system" as motivation for it, is doing good really doing good when you're just doing it because you get rewarded with heaven or whatever the religion of choice promotes for being a good religious-citizen? cant we just do good for the sake of doing good?


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## Goro923 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Who mentioned christianity? I said theists and religious people...
> 
> I know about the crusades and the stepping all over everyone / think that the church did to promote its faith like a company pushes a product and why its thee most popular religion.
> 
> But you can't put what happened way back when on a scale vs what goes on now.



Just to clear things up, it wasn't directed at you, just at anybody. It isn't a response, just my opinion.


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## Goro923 (Jul 31, 2011)

Xiphos68 said:


> The Catholic Church and Christianity are not the same thing.
> 
> Catholics have major different beliefs than Christians that follow the Bible (the Bibles are even different too). I don't know all the difference but there are some and you can't really put those different beliefs as the same thing.
> 
> They're a lot of people who have misrepresented Christianity and it's quite sad.



Yeah, you're right. I tend to bunch them up but I shouldn't. I know plenty of Christians (not very many Catholics, though) that don't follow the Catholic Church precisely because they know it's just another company that wants your money and is trying to wipe out the competition. I think if Jesus were alive now and went to the Vatican to preach what he did back in the day, the Pope would laugh in his face and kick him out for being dressed like a peasant. If we all tried to put into practice Jesus' essential message, the World would be a better place

Yep, completely unnecessary double-post. My bad.


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## MarcHxC (Jul 31, 2011)

Religion kills, Jesus saves.


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## Nimgoble (Jul 31, 2011)

There should be a stickied thread in the "Politics & Current Events" sub-forum where all the threads that were hi-jacked by a religious debate go. Or maybe just the posts pertaining to the religious debate in said hijacked thread.

This guy originally just asked about the Christian Metal Band scene...


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## Alimination (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm not sure if anyone posted this but... (they aren't new band though..)

Believer- Sanity Obscure


Deliverance- Weapons of our warfare 


Tourniquet- Ark of suffering


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## anthonyfaso (Jul 31, 2011)




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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 31, 2011)

Nimgoble said:


> Or maybe just the posts pertaining to the religious debate in said hijacked thread.



This, holyrolleyes shit this.


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