# Recommend me some aggressive as f**k preamps (for under $500)



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2017)

So, I'm thinking about making a very condensed rig. I got a Two Notes Torpedo Live, and instead of carrying around a heavy af tube head, I'm thinking about pairing the Two Notes with a preamp. Very simple to carry rig. 

I have two preamps in mind. The R&R SL/LD and the Peavey Rockmaster. The Peavey is cheap and has *that* sound, but the SL/LD is supposed to be based on the old '90s Rectos, with a tighter, more aggressive sound than modern rectos. I'm also considering the Engl E530 and the Two Notes LeLead.

Anyone have anything else in mind? Am I missing something?


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## vick1000 (Jul 15, 2017)

Amptweaker Tightmetal Pro


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## Gmork (Jul 15, 2017)

Are you only wanted rack pres? I love my crate xlp rack pre. Its essentially the ampeg vh140! Very close. If youre into pedal pres then s&k vhd (it IS the gain channel of the vh-140), tightmetal pro, AMT legend pres, tech21 gt2 is awesome. LOVE your greg thumbnail btw!!! What an amazing game that was!


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## TGN (Jul 15, 2017)

There's also TriAxis or StudioPre if you'd like something more in the Mark line of Boogies.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2017)

TGN said:


> There's also TriAxis or StudioPre if you'd like something more in the Mark line of Boogies.



I wasn't too big on the Studio, and the TriAxis is waaay out of my budget. 

I remember there being some good Crate pres. But I'm not sure if the VH sound is what I'm looking for.  Also why I'm not considering the Amptweaker stuff. Their higher-gain pedals seem to be in the same vein as the VH series.


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## maggotspawn (Jul 15, 2017)

GSP 1101.


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## lewis (Jul 15, 2017)

ENGL E530 then swap the pre amp tubes for Chinese silver dragons.

thank me later

EDIT:
Gives more gain and more bite!. Seriously great aggression with these tubes

EDIT 2:

*Shuguang 12AX7B *
are the tubes


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## TGN (Jul 15, 2017)

If you are not into the Amptweaker stuff, maybe the Egnator Black Metal could be an alternative?


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## USMarine75 (Jul 15, 2017)

Engl e530 was a great recommendation. Also look into the AMT Stonehead. There are some surprisingly great distortion pedals out there depending on the exact sound you're looking for. Emma Pisdiyauowt, Wampler Dracarys, Okko Dominator, etc...


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## feraledge (Jul 15, 2017)

IMO the Two Notes adds a lot of aggressiveness to anything high gain already. Whenever I used mine I had to pull back the gain considerably just to make it passable. It was my primary complaint about them. I would say that Mesa would probably have a more fitting Pre- (and I'm kicking myself for my friend selling a Rectifier Recording Pre for $500 ten years ago and not buying it), but by all means, I don't think you'll go wrong with a Rockmaster. You can grab one super cheap and snag a rackmount 16 or 32 band EQ to go with it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2017)

lewis said:


> ENGL E530 then swap the pre amp tubes for Chinese silver dragons.
> 
> thank me later
> 
> ...



If I consider the Engl, I'll definitely check this out.



TGN said:


> If you are not into the Amptweaker stuff, maybe the Egnator Black Metal could be an alternative?



If I go the pedal route, I'm checking out the BE-OD or MXR 5150. I'm honestly kinda iffy with pedals, but I know I'd like those.



USMarine75 said:


> Engl e530 was a great recommendation. Also look into the AMT Stonehead. There are some surprisingly great distortion pedals out there depending on the exact sound you're looking for. Emma Pisdiyauowt, Wampler Dracarys, Okko Dominator, etc...



I actually am not a fan of those.  I dig the Emma, but even then, I'm not too sure. I know I'll like the Be-OD and MXR.



feraledge said:


> IMO the Two Notes adds a lot of aggressiveness to anything high gain already. Whenever I used mine I had to pull back the gain considerably just to make it passable. It was my primary complaint about them. I would say that Mesa would probably have a more fitting Pre- (and I'm kicking myself for my friend selling a Rectifier Recording Pre for $500 ten years ago and not buying it), but by all means, I don't think you'll go wrong with a Rockmaster. You can grab one super cheap and snag a rackmount 16 or 32 band EQ to go with it.



It's what I'm considering. The Rockmaster goes cheap, which is why I want it. And I know I like the Peavey XXX and 5150II.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 15, 2017)

I've heard good things about the ISP Theta pre-amp pedal and they go for a decent price. 

There's also the AMT Bulava (solid state and tube versions) and Randall RG-13 pedal.


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## Rawkmann (Jul 16, 2017)

I just got a Friedman BE-OD last week, I'm absolutely in love with the thing. Works equally well for recording or live use. Probably the first pedal I've ever owned that really sounds and most importantly 'feels' like playing through a cranked tube amp.


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## Bearitone (Jul 16, 2017)

If you want a modern recto tone in a preamp I highly suggest the AMT R2 Preamp. It's my baby.
I know you're iffy when it comes to pedals, and I know the AMT pedals don't look like much but, I really doubt you would be dissapointed with an R2.

Skip to 30 seconds in


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## Sean Richardson (Jul 16, 2017)

Rocktron Piranha...

I run this plus 2 x two notes CABS (stereo) sitting on a rack tray with a power supply...

Game over


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## mnemonic (Jul 16, 2017)

kindsage said:


> If you want a modern recto tone in a preamp I highly suggest the AMT R2 Preamp. It's my baby.
> I know you're iffy when it comes to pedals, and I know the AMT pedals don't look like much but, I really doubt you would be dissapointed with an R2.
> 
> Skip to 30 seconds in



That sounds really good. I actually preferred the sound of the AMT. 

Do you know how it's being run in this video? If it's into the Recto's poweramp I don't think it's that accurate of a demo as the Recto poweramp is a big part of the recto sound. But if it's direct or into a solidstate poweramp, then that's amazing.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

mnemonic said:


> That sounds really good. I actually preferred the sound of the AMT.
> 
> Do you know how it's being run in this video? If it's into the Recto's poweramp I don't think it's that accurate of a demo as the Recto poweramp is a big part of the recto sound. But if it's direct or into a solidstate poweramp, then that's amazing.



Here's a video of one being used direct with the cab sim out. My guess as to why there aren't a ton of videos of the AMT pedals is because they aren't exactly easy to come by. There's only a handful of stores in the U.S. & Canada that sell them. Other than that, you have to get them overseas. :\


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## thraxil (Jul 16, 2017)

I have an AMT Bulava and an Amptweaker Tightmetal. The Tightmetal is a little higher gain, has little more bite and the built-in noise gate is really useful. But the Bulava has plenty of gain and also has solid clean and crunch channels that you can switch to. I tend to use it more simply because of that flexibility.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

kindsage said:


> If you want a modern recto tone in a preamp I highly suggest the AMT R2 Preamp. It's my baby.
> I know you're iffy when it comes to pedals, and I know the AMT pedals don't look like much but, I really doubt you would be dissapointed with an R2.
> 
> Skip to 30 seconds in




Huh, that actually sounds pretty good.



Sean Richardson said:


> Rocktron Piranha...
> 
> I run this plus 2 x two notes CABS (stereo) sitting on a rack tray with a power supply...
> 
> Game over



I had a Rocktron Piranha. It sounded good, but I had to get rid of it because it wasn't saturated enough. When I cranked the gain or added a boost, the sound tended to sound like it was being pushed by a fuzz pedal.



thraxil said:


> I have an AMT Bulava and an Amptweaker Tightmetal. The Tightmetal is a little higher gain, has little more bite and the built-in noise gate is really useful. But the Bulava has plenty of gain and also has solid clean and crunch channels that you can switch to. I tend to use it more simply because of that flexibility.


You just reminded me they did a rackmount version of the SS10.  Might check that out.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

Since this has become the pedal distortion thread, lol, What about the Bogner Red pedal? I always thought those might sound good with a boost. Maybe not as brutal, but maybe less fake, distortion-pedal sounding?


I have been considering playing with pedals more also. It seems like the modern high gain pedals are actually fairly decent compared to the thin, shrill stuff of the past.


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## Andromalia (Jul 16, 2017)

Well, a good ol' Marshall JMP1 will do the trick. Bonus, you also get good decent non death metal Marshall tones 
I'd also recomment the ADA MP2, but it's not very popular around here.

You could also technically get an axe fx II, but the budget ain't really there XD


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

Shask said:


> Since this has become the pedal distortion thread, lol, What about the Bogner Red pedal? I always thought those might sound good with a boost. Maybe not as brutal, but maybe less fake, distortion-pedal sounding?



I'm not really looking for dirt pedals to be honest.  The only two I'm really considering are the BE-OD and the EVH 5150. That or the Mooer Mesa Mark 3 preamp. MAYBE the Bogner red because it sounded cool fro the clips I've heard.

But for the most part I'm looking for preamps. I brought up the LeLead because it's a preamp.


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## Elric (Jul 16, 2017)

Pod XT Pro. They're bargains and great preamps for metal. Cab models were the weak spot. Rocktron chameleon and peavey rockmaster are also sleepers. Really there is a ton of great old rack gear.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

Elric said:


> Pod XT Pro. They're bargains and great preamps for metal. Cab models were the weak spot. Rocktron chameleon and peavey rockmaster are also sleepers. Really there is a ton of great old rack gear.



Eeeeh, I just sold a POD HD500 awhile back so I'll pass on that.

The Rocktron Chameleon is something I'd consider. I heard good things.

And I listed the rockmaster in the OP. 



Andromalia said:


> Well, a good ol' Marshall JMP1 will do the trick. Bonus, you also get good decent non death metal Marshall tones
> I'd also recomment the ADA MP2, but it's not very popular around here.
> 
> You could also technically get an axe fx II, but the budget ain't really there XD



I DID consider the JMP1 and ADA. I'm not totally sure, though. The JMP1 is something I tend to be hit or miss on nowadays, plus the prices are starting to skyrocket. And the ADAs seem to be getting rarer and rarer.


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## mnemonic (Jul 16, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Here's a video of one being used direct with the cab sim out. My guess as to why there aren't a ton of videos of the AMT pedals is because they aren't exactly easy to come by. There's only a handful of stores in the U.S. & Canada that sell them. Other than that, you have to get them overseas. :\




Cool. They don't seem too hard to find here in the UK, a few retailers have them. 

I already spent this months fun money, maybe I'll give one a shot next month.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

I just remembered.  The Randall MTS series.







I imagine the Ultra XL, XTC, Grail, and Treadplate modules get pretty fucking aggressive. They're rare, but I wonder if they go in my price range.
...Probably not.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

mnemonic said:


> Cool. They don't seem too hard to find here in the UK, a few retailers have them.
> 
> I already spent this months fun money, maybe I'll give one a shot next month.


 
I missed seeing that you're in the UK.  

Personally, I have an MXR 5150 and if you haven't tried one, I'd definitely recommend you try one out before you take a chance on something online that you can't try out yourself. The only issue is that it's just a 'pedal' and doesn't have any kind of speaker sim output, so you'd have to run it in front of either a clean amp or into a cab


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I just remembered.  The Randall MTS series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those aren't exactly "pre-amps". They will only work when plugged into the Randall or Egnater "MTS" heads. It'll end up costing a LOT more than $500 to invest in those..


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Those aren't exactly "pre-amps". They will only work when plugged into the Randall or Egnater "MTS" heads. It'll end up costing a LOT more than $500 to invest in those..



The box they're in IS a preamp. It's the RM4.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm not really looking for dirt pedals to be honest.  The only two I'm really considering are the BE-OD and the EVH 5150. That or the Mooer Mesa Mark 3 preamp. MAYBE the Bogner red because it sounded cool fro the clips I've heard.
> 
> But for the most part I'm looking for preamps. I brought up the LeLead because it's a preamp.



Yeah, I haven't tried the Bogner Red in person, but I think the clips sound great. I have been thinking about playing with the clean amp + distortion peal idea like I did back in the days of being a teenager. Seems like many of the pedals are much better at high gain these days. The MXR 5150 looks pretty cool also, but not sure if I would love it, over say, an AMT P2. I am not a HUGE pedal person, but been getting back into building pedals again lately, so it would be fun to build up a collection.

One of the reasons I haven't jumped on AMT is because many people say it sounds way better into a poweramp instead of a clean channel despite having output for either. AMT stuff would probably be a great choice if you want a solid state preamp base. That BE-OD seems interesting, because it really isn't a preamp, but many people say it sounds better as a preamp than into a clean channel.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Eeeeh, I just sold a POD HD500 awhile back so I'll pass on that.
> 
> The Rocktron Chameleon is something I'd consider. I heard good things.
> 
> ...



There was that other Marshall preamp also. 9001? Something like that? There were 2 of them that were not digital that came before the JMP-1.

Of course, MANY more options if you are considering digital units from the past..... Rocktron, Digitech, Boss, Peavey, etc....


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Eeeeh, I just sold a POD HD500 awhile back so I'll pass on that.
> 
> The Rocktron Chameleon is something I'd consider. I heard good things.
> 
> ...



Also, not sure if you would love the Chameleon. It is very clear sounding, like how you described the Piranha. Extremely clear, and harder to get it saturated sounding. Awesome for very tight, clear sounds though.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

Shask said:


> Also, not sure if you would love the Chameleon. It is very clear sounding, like how you described the Piranha. Extremely clear, and harder to get it saturated sounding. Awesome for very tight, clear sounds though.



Honestly, I loved the Pirahna. The reason it was so dry was because I COULDN'T crank the gain. Like I said, I dunno if mine was defected, but I got this weird fuzzy buzzsaw sound when I cranked the gain or boosted the front end, as if I was pushing it with a Boss HM2. I would buy another if I could, it's just it didn't like to have the gain pushed or have anything pushing the front end.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The box they're in IS a preamp. It's the RM4.



Gotcha.. But between the modules and the pre-amp itself, I can't see it being a very cheap endeavor.




Shask said:


> Yeah, I haven't tried the Bogner Red in person, but I think the clips sound great. I have been thinking about playing with the clean amp + distortion peal idea like I did back in the days of being a teenager. Seems like many of the pedals are much better at high gain these days. The MXR 5150 looks pretty cool also, but not sure if I would love it, over say, an AMT P2. I am not a HUGE pedal person, but been getting back into building pedals again lately, so it would be fun to build up a collection.



I have a Bogner Red and as far as "high gain" goes, there are better options out there. It's not that it's bad, it just doesn't do good tight, chunky palm muting like the 5150 or AMT pedals can. 

I noticed no one has brought up the Amptweaker Tight/Fat Metal pedals. I remember a few years ago, they were THE go to pedal outside of a full on modeller or rackmount pre-amp.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I noticed no one has brought up the Amptweaker Tight/Fat Metal pedals



Was actually the first two replies.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Was actually the first two replies.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I have a Bogner Red and as far as "high gain" goes, there are better options out there. It's not that it's bad, it just doesn't do good tight, chunky palm muting like the 5150 or AMT pedals can.
> 
> I noticed no one has brought up the Amptweaker Tight/Fat Metal pedals. I remember a few years ago, they were THE go to pedal outside of a full on modeller or rackmount pre-amp.



Interesting. In clips, I like the way the Bogner doesn't sound all brutal by itself. It seems like it would get pretty heavy with a Tubescreamer. The AMT pedals do sound good in clips, and have wanted to try a P2 forever. I am just worried they wouldn't sound good in front of an amp, instead of being used as a preamp. I was worried the MXR 5150 would be too fizzy sounding.

I have watched many videos of the Tight Metal. I feel like in every clip it sounds like a distortion pedal to me. It is tight and brutal, but gives me that same feeling many metal pedals do... super tight, very fizzy on top, etc.... I always feel like I wouldn't like it over time. Keep in mind I prefer amps like Rectos where you use a pedal to tighten them, vs. super tight amps on their own.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Honestly, I loved the Pirahna. The reason it was so dry was because I COULDN'T crank the gain. Like I said, I dunno if mine was defected, but I got this weird fuzzy buzzsaw sound when I cranked the gain or boosted the front end, as if I was pushing it with a Boss HM2. I would buy another if I could, it's just it didn't like to have the gain pushed or have anything pushing the front end.



Did you try new tubes?

The older Chameleons (not the 2000) have a 3-band parametric EQ before the gain, and a 4-band parametric EQ after the gain. The gain has the basic BMT controls also, and a few other settings like variac. They can be pretty hard to dial in, lol. I dont remember any sort of drastic buzzsaw, but you could probably dial in that in easily with too much pre-EQ presence. The overall tone though was VERY tight and clear. It wasn't gonna do any sort of Recto type tone. If you did the basic pre-EQ mid boost, and post-EQ mid scoop, you could get very heavy Thrashy tones. I remember I could dial in an Fear Factory Archetype style tone easily. There is also a trick where you set the speaker simulator to full-range, and crank up the resonance to get those heavy modern style lows.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 16, 2017)

Shask said:


> Interesting. In clips, I like the way the Bogner doesn't sound all brutal by itself. It seems like it would get pretty heavy with a Tubescreamer. The AMT pedals do sound good in clips, and have wanted to try a P2 forever. I am just worried they wouldn't sound good in front of an amp, instead of being used as a preamp. I was worried the MXR 5150 would be too fizzy sounding.



I think with the Bogner, it really depends on how you use it. I mainly use it either direct into an interface (when I use my guitar) or with my bass amp (when I use it with a bass). When using it direct with IRs, it really doesn't take od pedals well. It tends to make it both mushy and brittle/fizzy at the same time. It comes out sounding like playing music too loud through speakers and not in a good way, if you know what I mean. When I tried it out at the store through the clean channel of an amp, it sounded pretty decent (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it, right?). But yeah, I've tried 5 or 6 different od pedals in front of it and they all have very mixed results. 

I've done a little digging and pretty much every demo I've come across of it, has the audio recorded via a mic'ed cab. They are pretty much the same ones I saw when I was researching it before I bought it. If you plan on using it live with an amp, I think it'll be worth a shot. If you plan on using it with an interface, like I said before, there are a lot better options out there, especially if you're after "high gain" tones. It's really geared more towards AC/DC style rock or blues than it is metal but with enough tweaking I'm sure you'd be able to get something you like out of it because it really is pretty versatile.


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## bhakan (Jul 16, 2017)

So you did say no distortion pedals, but the S&K VHD pedal is just the preamp from an Ampeg VH140c inside a pedal enclosure.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2017)

bhakan said:


> So you did say no distortion pedals, but the S&K VHD pedal is just the preamp from an Ampeg VH140c inside a pedal enclosure.




I'm sure it's a cool pedal, but I'm not lookng for that kinda sound. Same reason I'm not considering the Tight Metal.


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## Shask (Jul 16, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I think with the Bogner, it really depends on how you use it. I mainly use it either direct into an interface (when I use my guitar) or with my bass amp (when I use it with a bass). When using it direct with IRs, it really doesn't take od pedals well. It tends to make it both mushy and brittle/fizzy at the same time. It comes out sounding like playing music too loud through speakers and not in a good way, if you know what I mean. When I tried it out at the store through the clean channel of an amp, it sounded pretty decent (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it, right?). But yeah, I've tried 5 or 6 different od pedals in front of it and they all have very mixed results.
> 
> I've done a little digging and pretty much every demo I've come across of it, has the audio recorded via a mic'ed cab. They are pretty much the same ones I saw when I was researching it before I bought it. If you plan on using it live with an amp, I think it'll be worth a shot. If you plan on using it with an interface, like I said before, there are a lot better options out there, especially if you're after "high gain" tones. It's really geared more towards AC/DC style rock or blues than it is metal but with enough tweaking I'm sure you'd be able to get something you like out of it because it really is pretty versatile.



That is interesting. I wonder why it doesn't seem to take OD pedals well. Does the MXR 5150 pedal take OD pedals well? I have been watching some vids of it, and it sounds pretty good also. If you are using it direct, I can see why you would prefer a preamp, like AMT over the Bogner or MXR. Yes, I like super heavy boosted Recto, 5150, Modded JCM800 type tones.

To be honest, I dont really need it, lol. I just like screwing with gear. Between an Axe-FX and tube amps, I have plenty of things, but have been into building pedals lately. I used to years ago, but got away from it and sold most of them. I thought about building up a small pedal collection again besides the few I kept from years ago. I was playing with my old modded Metal Zone boosted with an OD808 into the clean channel of my Triple Recto and was amazed at how good it sounded the other day. Made me think about trying some of the newer pedals. The Bogner uses the 4 stage FET design that is fairly new that seems to really emulate amps well. Interested in trying a pedal with that design. The AMT pedals use this type of design also I think. The Amptweaker uses a TL072 style design, like the old Marshall Shredmaster, Jackhammer, Tech 21 GT2, etc...


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## Spinedriver (Jul 17, 2017)

I'm in the same boat as you are. With the GSP1101 & Pod X3, I can get a tone that I really like. I just like getting a (relatively) cheap pedal to mess around with every now & again just for a change of pace. With the MXR 5150, in all honesty you don't need a boost pedal in front of it. With the "boost" button engaged, you literally get the same result as if you ran an od pedal in front of it. When I use it, I basically just dial up a 'clean' amp on the GSP1101 and run it into that just as if I were using it with a real amp.

As far as the Bogner goes, I'm thinking maybe it's just voiced to sound more like a 'vintage' amp, so that could be why it sounds a bit boomy/mushy to me.


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## lewis (Jul 17, 2017)

you genuinely wont get tighter than the E530, especially with a tube swap and the clean channel is one of the best clean channels Ive ever used. The unit takes effects brilliantly too and does not even need a boost infront of it. Find a used one to save $$$ and genuinely just call it a day.

Im like you, Im not really into pedal preamps. And the tube feeling is very present with the ENGL. What tuning are you going to be using?. I would not suggest running standard tuning into the ENGL but anything Drop C and lower, including 7 and 8 strings, is exceptional. Anything higher and it seems too thin unless you have a great poweramp that gives you back balls. By itself the E530 lacks balls. Even bass cranked doesnt feel like there is bass, thats how tight it is, if using standard tuning. You would need something that gives you extra EQ in its effects loop to dial more low end in if you are using a higher tuning.

I run mine 4 cable method with my HD Pro just for effects, so i get pre and post effects blocks that I can add whatever I want.


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## Sean Richardson (Jul 17, 2017)

Elric said:


> Pod XT Pro. They're bargains and great preamps for metal. Cab models were the weak spot. Rocktron chameleon and peavey rockmaster are also sleepers. Really there is a ton of great old rack gear.



The Rockmaster is the only preamp I own (or have owned) that does NOT need a boost pedal. They are great BUT... lack of midi is a pain and they need to have the bias voltage mod to bring them more headroom and punch (otherwise I think they lack some dynamics) very saturated gain though


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## Sean Richardson (Jul 17, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Honestly, I loved the Pirahna. The reason it was so dry was because I COULDN'T crank the gain. Like I said, I dunno if mine was defected, but I got this weird fuzzy buzzsaw sound when I cranked the gain or boosted the front end, as if I was pushing it with a Boss HM2. I would buy another if I could, it's just it didn't like to have the gain pushed or have anything pushing the front end.



Yeah... none of that sounds right... it's clear gain and aggressive but not buzz saw like at all. I do find that the trick is to keep the input Drive at a bit over half and cut 750 - 800Hz quite savagely (in the MESA Mk EQ style)... try a rockmaster though


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## Shask (Jul 17, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I'm in the same boat as you are. With the GSP1101 & Pod X3, I can get a tone that I really like. I just like getting a (relatively) cheap pedal to mess around with every now & again just for a change of pace. With the MXR 5150, in all honesty you don't need a boost pedal in front of it. With the "boost" button engaged, you literally get the same result as if you ran an od pedal in front of it. When I use it, I basically just dial up a 'clean' amp on the GSP1101 and run it into that just as if I were using it with a real amp.
> 
> As far as the Bogner goes, I'm thinking maybe it's just voiced to sound more like a 'vintage' amp, so that could be why it sounds a bit boomy/mushy to me.



I thought maybe the 5150 would clear up some of the fizz if you ran the gain lower, and hit it with a tubescreamer. That is how the amp works, lol. How would you compare the 5150 and the AMT pedals? I always thought maybe they would be too smooth.

Yeah, most Marshall-based products generally go for that old Van Halen type sound. It is hard when you are looking for more of a Demanufacture type sound, lol. I know this well. I have a JCM800 clone I built that is tweaked out for high gain, for those Fear Factory, Slayer, Anthrax, and Coal Chamber type sounds. Many times you can hit those tones still though with an OD and an EQ. Maybe I will just build a BSIABII pedal for more of that vintage Marshall thing. Much cheaper.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 17, 2017)

I've used AMT, ISP Theta, and currently an E530. AMT's legend pedals are great but pretty inflexible. The ISP Theta is without question gnarliest and most brutal, and very amplike. The only thing is that it's best to run it as strictly a doubled gain channel. You can get amazing cleans but it's worth sacrificing them to get more brutality. The E530 has 2 channels that can work as more. The e530 has the least flexible low end, but it's not a problem with the right settings in the sim or a good cab.


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## cGoEcYk (Jul 17, 2017)

youngthrasher9 said:


> The ISP Theta is without question gnarliest and most brutal, and very amplike. The only thing is that it's best to run it as strictly a doubled gain channel. You can get amazing cleans but it's worth sacrificing them to get more brutality.


You said it all. I love my Theta. Killer br00ts for the money (~$200 used sometimes). I agree that the clean preamp module needs to be committed one way or another- either set it as a clean channel or calibrate it to really drive the br00ts.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 17, 2017)

Sean Richardson said:


> Yeah... none of that sounds right... it's clear gain and aggressive but not buzz saw like at all. I do find that the trick is to keep the input Drive at a bit over half and cut 750 - 800Hz quite savagely (in the MESA Mk EQ style)... try a rockmaster though



When I kept the gain low to medium-high, it would sound perfect. Like an old Recto. Once the gain went passed 60, or I boosted the front end, it sounded like something was getting overloaded and causing the distortion to clip in an unnatural way. 

And right now I'm still sold on the Rockmaster, SL/LD, or E530. But I'm also considering the Two Notes Le Lead. Sounds amazing for a little pedal deal. The Theta is also something I once considered, and might still. 

And I do play higher than standard a lot.  I mean I tune down from drop C all the way down to like drop F# on my 7-string, but the majority of the time, I'm in standard E - drop C#.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 17, 2017)

The E530 is fantastic; that said, you can more or less get the same tones out of the Theta and gnarlier. The gain structure is more shapeable with the Theta, but if you're feeling like Engl, Engl does Engl better than anything else.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 17, 2017)

Shask said:


> I thought maybe the 5150 would clear up some of the fizz if you ran the gain lower, and hit it with a tubescreamer. That is how the amp works, lol. How would you compare the 5150 and the AMT pedals? I always thought maybe they would be too smooth.
> 
> Yeah, most Marshall-based products generally go for that old Van Halen type sound. It is hard when you are looking for more of a Demanufacture type sound, lol. I know this well. I have a JCM800 clone I built that is tweaked out for high gain, for those Fear Factory, Slayer, Anthrax, and Coal Chamber type sounds. Many times you can hit those tones still though with an OD and an EQ. Maybe I will just build a BSIABII pedal for more of that vintage Marshall thing. Much cheaper.



I've never had the chance to try any of the AMT pedals in person, so I can't really say much about them either way. I'm sure that an od into the 5150 would work just fine, I was just saying that the built in boost button sounds pretty decent as is. It's the Bogner pedal that has a hard time handling being boosted. That being said, the main reason for getting the Red pedal in the first place was; 1) Mainly the same cool sounding demos on Youtube that you probably saw and 2) I got it for roughly 1/2 of what a new one goes for.

On a side note, I managed to score an old Tech21 GT2 last year and it takes od pedals like a champ.


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## Shask (Jul 17, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I've never had the chance to try any of the AMT pedals in person, so I can't really say much about them either way. I'm sure that an od into the 5150 would work just fine, I was just saying that the built in boost button sounds pretty decent as is. It's the Bogner pedal that has a hard time handling being boosted. That being said, the main reason for getting the Red pedal in the first place was; 1) Mainly the same cool sounding demos on Youtube that you probably saw and 2) I got it for roughly 1/2 of what a new one goes for.
> 
> On a side note, I managed to score an old Tech21 GT2 last year and it takes od pedals like a champ.



Ah, I thought you had an AMT also. It is funny you mention the GT2. That is one of those pedals I have played a thousand times, always liked it, but never owned for some reason. Maybe I should grab one of those cheap, lol. I had the Sansamp PSA-1 rack many years ago, and always liked it. I had the BDDI for years also. I miss that one.


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## El Caco (Jul 17, 2017)

As far as small portability goes it is hard to beat the Mooer Micro Preamps. There are 10 to choose from but below is a video of 4 of the higher gain versions. I have the Blacknight which is based on an Engl Blackmore and it sounds really good. The best part is how cheap they are, you could find all 4 in the video below and have change from $500.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 17, 2017)

Well, I gotta say the Le Lead is looking better and better.




Unless anyone here has any experience with one?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 18, 2017)

Man I'm still considering the Engl, but the lack of low end worries me. I like that low-mid growl Mesas and the Peavey 5150 have, so that worries me about the Engl. And I'm also afraid it won't cut through the mix in a band situation. I'm sure it'll sound amazing recorded, but in a love context, it kinda worries me.


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## lewis (Jul 18, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Man I'm still considering the Engl, but the lack of low end worries me. I like that low-mid growl Mesas and the Peavey 5150 have, so that worries me about the Engl. And I'm also afraid it won't cut through the mix in a band situation. I'm sure it'll sound amazing recorded, but in a love context, it kinda worries me.


trust me the ENGL cuts brilliantly when you engage the contour switch on the lead channel that boosts mids (and seems to make it louder too)

basically dial in your desired tone then hit the contour button when using said tone in a band mix situation.
it cuts brilliantly.
if you plan to use the engl with a torpedo, then just boost the CAB sim lows using the built in eq.
If you are going into a poweramp >cab make sure that the poweramp has plenty of low end or just place an EQ pedal in the ENGL effects loop.

Either way solves the lack of low end brilliantly


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## Spinedriver (Jul 18, 2017)

Shask said:


> Ah, I thought you had an AMT also. It is funny you mention the GT2. That is one of those pedals I have played a thousand times, always liked it, but never owned for some reason. Maybe I should grab one of those cheap, lol. I had the Sansamp PSA-1 rack many years ago, and always liked it. I had the BDDI for years also. I miss that one.



Tech 21 stuff is really underrated. Put a boost in front of it and an MXR 10 Band eq after the GT2 and you're good to go. As for the BDDI, I had one, sold it to the guy who joined the band I was in several years back and later on I picked up a VT Bass pedal and it's SOOOO much better than the BDDI, it's insane.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 18, 2017)

Shask said:


> Since this has become the pedal distortion thread, lol, What about the Bogner Red pedal? I always thought those might sound good with a boost. Maybe not as brutal, but maybe less fake, distortion-pedal sounding?
> 
> 
> I have been considering playing with pedals more also. It seems like the modern high gain pedals are actually fairly decent compared to the thin, shrill stuff of the past.



If you look above, I have the Bonner Red and it works much better in front of an amp than it does using it directly into a recording interface.

I forgot to post this above but it's the demo that convinced me to take a chance on the GT2.


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## Shask (Jul 18, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Man I'm still considering the Engl, but the lack of low end worries me. I like that low-mid growl Mesas and the Peavey 5150 have, so that worries me about the Engl. And I'm also afraid it won't cut through the mix in a band situation. I'm sure it'll sound amazing recorded, but in a love context, it kinda worries me.



That was always my worry about the E530 also..... I always thought it would be too tight, and not bring the big chunk. I dont like amps that are overly tight.

I always found all those years ago when I used all those rack units that I talked about, the sound was always tighter. It was very hard for me to get that big chunky metal sound. I switched to a 5150 around 2001 and suddenly found what I had been missing. I didn't do too much rack again after that, and stuck with heads until the Axe-FX. It is probably different with a massive power amp like a Mesa 2:90, but then you are getting too crazy unless you are playing stadiums.


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## Shask (Jul 18, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Tech 21 stuff is really underrated. Put a boost in front of it and an MXR 10 Band eq after the GT2 and you're good to go. As for the BDDI, I had one, sold it to the guy who joined the band I was in several years back and later on I picked up a VT Bass pedal and it's SOOOO much better than the BDDI, it's insane.



I think Tech 21 stuff used to be very popular, but has kind of gotten overlooked and overshadowed with all the improvements in digital modeling over the last 15 years or so. The GT2 was THE pedal to have back then, but not as popular as now. It seems like their bass pedals have always been their most popular. It is interesting the VT is THAT much better.

I think I am definitely gonna have to start getting some pedals just to mess around with. I used to have around 50 pedals but sold most of them when I went Axe-FX. I kind of miss just picking up cheap stuff to mess with. I actually ordered a Caline Orange Burst yesterday to start, lol.


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## mnemonic (Jul 18, 2017)

You guys are really giving me pedal gas haha. 

Since I'm not happy with with the recto models in my axe fx II, and I gotta get my recto fix somehow, you guys think I should get an AMT R2?

I guess I could run it a vatiety of ways; into a clean SS poweramp, or into my valvestate's poweamp, or into the front of the axe fx.


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## Shask (Jul 18, 2017)

mnemonic said:


> You guys are really giving me pedal gas haha.
> 
> Since I'm not happy with with the recto models in my axe fx II, and I gotta get my recto fix somehow, you guys think I should get an AMT R2?
> 
> I guess I could run it a vatiety of ways; into a clean SS poweramp, or into my valvestate's poweamp, or into the front of the axe fx.



That is how I am, lol. I have been building a pedal, and been spray painting the enclosure when this thread popped up, lol. I have been in the mood to build and buy pedals, just to try out some different things. I think that is one thing I miss about having the Axe-fx.... you got everything built in, so you dont need to buy anything, but I kind of miss buying weird stuff just to check out.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 18, 2017)

I'm getting great results boosting an Amptweaker Big Rock Pro with a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver modded by JHS. It's going to a Way Huge delay then to an AMT 3w tube cake. It's pretty aggressive for me, but maybe not recto enough. The Fat Metal Pro might be better, and is def better than the Tight Metal Pro as it has more mid range. I know you aren't interested in the Amptweaker stuff, but I think they sound better as a preamp than as a pedal going into an amp. You could always try a modded Boss Metal Zone as a preamp, which frankly, is the best use for a metal zone judging from clips on YouTube -- it blows as a pedal.


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## El Caco (Jul 18, 2017)

I can confirm what others have said that the E530 can cut through a mix and the contour button can help. The contour button can be used as a solo boost or alternatively it can be used as home/live mode button, it just depends how you set your base tone. I wouldn't describe the E530 as bright, I thought it had balanced tone with good EQ range, if anything I turned my bass down and treble up but there was plenty of EQ on tap. 

I will say however that I probably wouldn't want to use an E530 like this. The E530 really comes alive with a tube poweramp and I don't think I'd want to use it as a stand alone. But anyone can virtually test a E530 to see if they might like it because the plugins like the u530 are very accurate and free.

So download a plugin and try it. If you like it then you know you should test a real E530, if you don't, I think you can safely cross it off your list.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 18, 2017)

El Caco said:


> I can confirm what others have said that the E530 can cut through a mix and the contour button can help. The contour button can be used as a solo boost or alternatively it can be used as home/live mode button, it just depends how you set your base tone. I wouldn't describe the E530 as bright, I thought it had balanced tone with good EQ range, if anything I turned my bass down and treble up but there was plenty of EQ on tap.
> 
> I will say however that I probably wouldn't want to use an E530 like this. The E530 really comes alive with a tube poweramp and I don't think I'd want to use it as a stand alone. But anyone can virtually test a E530 to see if they might like it because the plugins like the u530 are very accurate and free.
> 
> So download a plugin and try it. If you like it then you know you should test a real E530, if you don't, I think you can safely cross it off your list.



I have used the LePou plugin and I loved it. Judging by clips, the real thing sounds even better. Tighter and beefier. 

And I have a Two Notes Torpedo Live. I can run it into there and use the on-board power amp emulator and impulses. I'll be fine there.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 18, 2017)

Shask said:


> I think Tech 21 stuff used to be very popular, but has kind of gotten overlooked and overshadowed with all the improvements in digital modeling over the last 15 years or so. The GT2 was THE pedal to have back then, but not as popular as now. It seems like their bass pedals have always been their most popular. It is interesting the VT is THAT much better.



The VT has more gain on tap than the regular BDDI and the "character" knob really gives you a wider range of tones. The pedal I really want to try out is the Darkglass B7K Ultra but it's way too expensive considering I'd just be messing around with it here at home.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'm getting great results boosting an Amptweaker Big Rock Pro with a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver modded by JHS. It's going to a Way Huge delay then to an AMT 3w tube cake. It's pretty aggressive for me, but maybe not recto enough. The Fat Metal Pro might be better, and is def better than the Tight Metal Pro as it has more mid range. I know you aren't interested in the Amptweaker stuff, but I think they sound better as a preamp than as a pedal going into an amp. You could always try a modded Boss Metal Zone as a preamp, which frankly, is the best use for a metal zone judging from clips on YouTube -- it blows as a pedal.


Yep the mt2 is awesome as a boost (just like how kirk in crowbar uses it) but the modded one I have (based off a wampler triple wreck) is just ridiculous. So thick, so mean, especially into a boogie.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 18, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yep the mt2 is awesome as a boost (just like how kirk in crowbar uses it) but the modded one I have (based off a wampler triple wreck) is just ridiculous. So thick, so mean, especially into a boogie.


I mentioned using it as a preamp, as in MT-2 -> poweramp, but some people like Kirk and the guys in Cannibal Corpse do use it as a boost/eq. I kinda want a modded MT-2 to mess with as a preamp, but I'm not sure whose mod would get it into the ballpark of what I want. I'd probably want it somewhere along the lines of a Soldano SLO or 5150.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I mentioned using it as a preamp, as in MT-2 -> poweramp, but some people like Kirk and the guys in Cannibal Corpse do use it as a boost/eq. I kinda want a modded MT-2 to mess with as a preamp, but I'm not sure whose mod would get it into the ballpark of what I want. I'd probably want it somewhere along the lines of a Soldano SLO or 5150.


Yeah I think even the base model could be a decent preamp as long as you don't crank the gain too much. considering they're around 30$ used it's not really a big financial commitment to try one.


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## Syphon (Jul 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I mentioned using it as a preamp, as in MT-2 -> poweramp, but some people like Kirk and the guys in Cannibal Corpse do use it as a boost/eq. I kinda want a modded MT-2 to mess with as a preamp, but I'm not sure whose mod would get it into the ballpark of what I want. I'd probably want it somewhere along the lines of a Soldano SLO or 5150.


MT-2 could kind of get to the soldano area but not 5150, and by "kind of" I mean just in the cold type of distortion way that the third gain stage of a slo produces. The 5150 has that in its circuit plus some other shaping. Really, I mean just buy a beat up 5150 combo off craigslist for $400 if possible and you will be ahead of any other comparably priced option imo. 

In terms of actual preamp circuit gain, you can think of the SLO as closer to the bottom of modern amps. SLO<Dual rec<5150 with the engl/vht amps being more in line with hot rodded marshalls in distortion characteristics as indicated by their schems.


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## op1e (Jul 18, 2017)

You can get into the MTS platform for reasonably cheap. Those RM4's go for $400 empty and you can pick up the modules for $125. I got an unloaded RM100 for $350. Then sent a module I had in to be converted into an ENGL thru Motor City Mods (Salvation Mods US distributor).


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## op1e (Jul 18, 2017)

But I do miss my Rockmaster. I had one of those, an ADA mp1 with Mod 3.1. But the one I'm really sick about letting got with my Marshall power amp I sold was the ART DST-4 I picked up for $50. That thing ruled and fx were great. Gnarly Marshall and thrash tones and thick. I shall have another.


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## Bearitone (Jul 18, 2017)

mnemonic said:


> You guys are really giving me pedal gas haha.
> 
> Since I'm not happy with with the recto models in my axe fx II, and I gotta get my recto fix somehow, you guys think I should get an AMT R2?
> 
> I guess I could run it a vatiety of ways; into a clean SS poweramp, or into my valvestate's poweamp, or into the front of the axe fx.


Yes. Get the R2. Boost it hard. Have a blast.
Its a great preamp. I prefer it over my TMPro


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## lewis (Jul 19, 2017)

ENGL E530 demos to show tightness and aggression- 









and to show how great the engl sounds with effects -


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 19, 2017)

So I'm definitely settling my choices to the Rockmaster, E530, and the LeLead.

The E530 seems to be more of a crunchy, tight AF djentleman's preamp, and the LeLead more of a 5150-meets-Recto thickness. The Rockmaster is in-between. The E530 I'm semi-hesitant on. All my guitars have very bright or tight pickups, like the PRS Tremonti or EMG 81.

I'm also still debating on a Theta pre as well. Fuck.  Shit, I might make my choces between the Theta and the LeLead.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 19, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I'm definitely settling my choices to the Rockmaster, E530, and the LeLead.
> 
> The E530 seems to be more of a crunchy, tight AF djentleman's preamp, and the LeLead more of a 5150-meets-Recto thickness. The Rockmaster is in-between. The E530 I'm semi-hesitant on. All my guitars have very bright or tight pickups, like the PRS Tremonti or EMG 81.
> 
> I'm also still debating on a Theta pre as well. Fuck.  Shit, I might make my choces between the Theta and the LeLead.


Just get em all, and sell off the 3 your don't want.


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## Syphon (Jul 19, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I'm definitely settling my choices to the Rockmaster, E530, and the LeLead.
> 
> The E530 seems to be more of a crunchy, tight AF djentleman's preamp, and the LeLead more of a 5150-meets-Recto thickness. The Rockmaster is in-between. The E530 I'm semi-hesitant on. All my guitars have very bright or tight pickups, like the PRS Tremonti or EMG 81.
> 
> I'm also still debating on a Theta pre as well. Fuck.  Shit, I might make my choces between the Theta and the LeLead.


The lelead is not a true tube preamp. I don't know if that matters to you, but it's only partial tube distortion. That doesn't mean it can't sound great.

That being said, there are 6505s for sale near me in combo form for around $330. Sorry to harp about that, but solves all your issues.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 19, 2017)

Syphon said:


> The lelead is not a true tube preamp. I don't know if that matters to you, but it's only partial tube distortion. That doesn't mean it can't sound great.
> 
> That being said, there are 6505s for sale near me in combo form for around $330. Sorry to harp about that, but solves all your issues.



I already have a 5150II. Plus I got a Two Notes. I'm looking to bypass the amp period and rely on a preamp.

And I know the LeLead is hybrid. Still sounds good, though.


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## lewis (Jul 20, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I already have a 5150II. Plus I got a Two Notes. I'm looking to bypass the amp period and rely on a preamp.
> 
> And I know the LeLead is hybrid. Still sounds good, though.



in my opinion, If I had the two notes live rack (which I presume is what you have?. Or do you have the CAB like me?)
I would want a rack preamp to go with it. Its just neater to me personally. If Im building a rack case I hate having extra pedals stuck in there too. I done it before and had them mounted on a pull out rack drawer. I mean yeah works great but adds alot of extra weight and cables I just could not care for.

Would much prefer just 1U torpedo Live, 1U rack preamp, 1U power conditioner and 1u tuner and call it a day If I was going direct to FOH and in ear monitoring exclusively.

Im wanting to start using cabs again myself so I would be adding 1U poweramp in place of any Torpedo product but my Rack setup is going to be basically exactly the same minus that switch

what I would say regards to the style of gain that may be putting you off on the ENGL, dont forget in the Live you have different power amp simulation styles to change up the sort of tone you are getting from your rig and also there is real time mic placement (unless using 3rd party IRs) and even an EQ.

If you wanted a less tight core sound from the engl, you could choose the 6l6 poweramp sim, cut some highs using the built in EQ and pull the mic placement into a different place to act like a power amp sag type sound. There are lots of ways to make a tight core sound, sound more loose and saggy.

For what its worth, the Theta is suppose to be incredible too. The Le Lead is not true preamp tube either if that matters.
I much preferred the ENGL for that reason.


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## El Caco (Jul 20, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I mentioned using it as a preamp, as in MT-2 -> poweramp, but some people like Kirk and the guys in Cannibal Corpse do use it as a boost/eq. I kinda want a modded MT-2 to mess with as a preamp, but I'm not sure whose mod would get it into the ballpark of what I want. I'd probably want it somewhere along the lines of a Soldano SLO or 5150.



I think you may have taken some of the MT-2 conversations the wrong way. I even posted about it in an effort to prevent it, I don't recommend buying an MT-2, it just isn't the unusable piece of crap people make it out to be, that's all. It is best used as a preamp in stock form, but this is only true if it is unmodded. Most of the mods improve it as a stomp but I've found it no longer sounds as good as a preamp when modded. Perhaps this is because most of Brian's mods alter the input buffer, maybe if you leave the input buffer alone and only mod the gain stages it could still work as preamp, I'm not sure but I've been meaning to return that part of the circuit to standard for some time, I just haven't got around to it. I've modded the rest of the circuit so many times and I've got a variety of results, my current mods are different to any you can find out there and although I think they are better than the other common mods I have tried I'm not sure if I like them as much as using the unmodded pedal as a preamp. Something I haven't tried is turning the MT-2 into more of a DS-1 type of circuit but I always thought that would be cool with the semi parametric EQ. Recently I got a modeller that has a DS1 type of distortion in it and that also has the same kind of semi parametric EQ and like I thought it is kind of cool so this has reaffirmed my desire to perform this kind of mod at some point.

No mod I have tried with the MT2 sounds anything like a SLO or 5150. If you want a 5150 preamp buy a Mooer 005, I saw a video of a guy running it into his 5150's poweramp and he switched between the 5150 and the 005, it's bloody convincing.


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## Shask (Jul 20, 2017)

I have an old Metal Zone I modded several years ago. I got it out the other day and used it into the clean channel of my Triple Recto with an OD808 in front of it. It actually sounded and felt much better than I expected. It was almost like an older Randall type tone. It is actually part of the motivation to why I have been asking about gain pedals in this thread. It encouraged me to play around with distortion pedals more. Of course, it sounds awesome as a boost also.

I dont remember the exact mods I did to it, but I remember it was a combination of the Wampler "JCM-Boogie" mod, with a little bit of Keeley thrown in. I didn't do either completely, but a little bit of both. Honestly, the best thing you can do to mod these, the easiest, and the biggest effect, is to remove the 2 caps (I want to say C25 and C35). They remove that squaky cocked-wah thing it has going on.


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## El Caco (Jul 20, 2017)

I'd take that a step further and say removing C25 and C35 is the best mod you can do to a MT2 and they need no other mods. That was the first mod I ever did and the result was great. That mod made me want to do every other mod that followed and I kind of regret the others because they are all a compromise. I have thought a bunch of times that I should change everything else back and just leave those 2 caps out. What removing those does is take Transistor Q008 and Q010 out of the circuit.

That said I'm pretty sure anything from the Blackstar LT series sounds better than Boss pedals.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jul 20, 2017)

Any of the older Digitech units, like the GSP 1101, GSP-2101, or my fave of the Digitech's, the VFX (Valve FX), or an ADA MP-1 or MP-2.

Out of all of these, if going for a simple, small rig, I'd go with the Valve FX. I had two of these in a small rack with an ADA Microtube 200w 1u power amp using one for cleans, one for crunch & midi morphed between the two using just these and the Control One Pedal. 
My rack consisted of a Furman PL8, my rack mount Samson Wireless Receiver, 2 VFX's, and the power amp. Real small, easy to pack away, quick setup, and it powered 2 4x12's quite nicely.

digitech-valve-fx-15712.jpg


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jul 20, 2017)

I'll throw out the Hafler T3 as well, because i had one and liked it and they are CHEAP (under $200). Also have midi and analog switching, and the 3rd channel can do the brootz - i actually used channel 3 for rhythm and channel 2, gain fairly high, for leads. Worth a look if you see one somewhere.


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## B.M.F. (Jul 21, 2017)

JazzHands, like you I have recently been getting into high gain preamps. They are cheap and you can get some great tones, plus they fit perfect into a workflow of a modern studio. With Torpedo Live, etc. it's a great option. I have got a few sitting in my home studio already and can offer you my impressions on each:

ADA MP1 Voodo Mod - Very good for lead tones, hot fusion, thrash, capable of enough gain for death metal, needs EQ and boost though to sound the best. Great cleans
Marshall 9004 - now a very cheap Marshall preamp from 1989, Marshall's first solid state preamp. This Marshall is packed with gain. I prefer it to the Valvestate I had, infinite better sound quality than MG
Peavey Rockmaster (unmodded) - I am loving this one and will do a write up on it. Predecessor to the JSX, XXX. Packed with gain and sounds great. Want to FJA mod it.

Untested = Tech 21 SansAmp PSA1, ENGL E530 (open box) also ISP Theta. I will offer my thoughts once I get to try them all. Each is supposed to be a very good high gain preamp as well. Speaking of the Theta preamp pedal this YouTube video, although not the most professional, shows how ISP Theta sounds in uber high gain


My dream preamp is a Soldano x88r, maybe one day.


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## El Caco (Jul 21, 2017)

I'm just going to throw this out even though it isn't what the OP is asking for. I don't think I have mentioned it in this thread. Recently I was trying to achieve the same thing the OP is, my budget might have been a bit bigger.

In my mind now it was a fools errand and I think I wasted a lot of money to learn that.

In the same price range there are digital amps that sound and do everything better and are far more versatile.

And here's the thing. If you are willing to consider an E530, it isn't even small, especially if you put it into a rack. At that size you may as well also consider amps. My personal preference being the Blackstar ID since that is what converted me. My tone quest is over. The best part is I've never played anything that is as fun or as inspiring as this amp.

Just my


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## eggy in a bready (Jul 21, 2017)

has anyone mentioned the Boss GL-100 yet? it has a nastier version of the HM-2 circuit, and can routinely be found for less than, like, $80


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2017)

eggy in a bready said:


> has anyone mentioned the Boss GL-100 yet? it has a nastier version of the HM-2 circuit, and can routinely be found for less than, like, $80



That's a uh... specific aggression I don't want. 



El Caco said:


> I'm just going to throw this out even though it isn't what the OP is asking for. I don't think I have mentioned it in this thread. Recently I was trying to achieve the same thing the OP is, my budget might have been a bit bigger.
> 
> In my mind now it was a fools errand and I think I wasted a lot of money to learn that.
> 
> ...



The reason I want to go the preamp route is because I already have a unit that can emulate a power amp AND cabinet. I have a Two Notes Torpedo Live. It sounds fantastic. If I keep everything in a rack, OR get a good pedal-style PREAMP (not distortion box ), then I can just deal with a rack + pedalboard, instead of lugging around a head.

I think I'm honestly getting closer to getting the Theta preamp. The E530's cool, but super rare 2nd hand and out of my budget new. The Rockmaster is also getting rarer as well.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jul 21, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's a uh... specific aggression I don't want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you heard anything about that new Rocktron pre amp, the Widowmaker ? The only demo I've ever seen of it is from "The Tone King" (so take that for what it's worth) but it's only $279 from Musician's Friend. It's strange that it came out and virtually no one has said much of anything about it good or bad.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/rocktron-widowmaker-guitar-rack-preamp


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's a uh... specific aggression I don't want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The metal zone and amp tweaked stuff sound better as preamps than distortion boxes. The Theta does sound pretty cool though. Let us know how much you like it.


----------



## lewis (Jul 21, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's a uh... specific aggression I don't want.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I found 2 used on ebay.com just the other day?


----------



## B.M.F. (Jul 22, 2017)

The reason I got my Engl E530 was because it was so discounted, I got mine open box. Sounds devastating, the tightest tube amp
I like my S&K VH140c pedal better than the TightMetal Pro
TightMetal Pro is excellent though, I wish he made full blown preamps/heads with 6L6s.
Metal Zone can be good don't forget Cryptopsy used these on first two albums into Marshall Amp power section with EMG 81. Keeley Modded Metal Zone = even better


----------



## lewis (Jul 22, 2017)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> *The reason I got my Engl E530 was because it was so discounted, I got mine open box. Sounds devastating, the tightest tube amp*



I totally agree with this. If you ever want to go full tube and go 1 or 2U tube poweramp along with it its utterly utterly devastating. Im leaning towards SS route myself but I would go tube power instead If I could find something in the UK that I really like.
The only thing I could find that would work well is the Laney studio to power it. The Engl makes a matching 1U 810 poweramp but its quite pricey but also there were some negative reviews about overheating or something.


----------



## lewis (Jul 22, 2017)

Edit:
Double post for some reason


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## vick1000 (Jul 22, 2017)

Engle E530 or AMT SS10 are very similar, the E530 is a little better for tight metal tones IMO. The SS10 is a bit more versatile, but not quite as dynamic or reactive, probably because it runs off a wall wart and does not push the tubes are hard, basically a pedal in a rack unit.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 22, 2017)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> JazzHands, like you I have recently been getting into high gain preamps. They are cheap and you can get some great tones, plus they fit perfect into a workflow of a modern studio. With Torpedo Live, etc. it's a great option. I have got a few sitting in my home studio already and can offer you my impressions on each:
> 
> ADA MP1 Voodo Mod - Very good for lead tones, hot fusion, thrash, capable of enough gain for death metal, needs EQ and boost though to sound the best. Great cleans
> Marshall 9004 - now a very cheap Marshall preamp from 1989, Marshall's first solid state preamp. This Marshall is packed with gain. I prefer it to the Valvestate I had, infinite better sound quality than MG
> ...



LOL

That's my Theta video actually. Glad you liked it


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 22, 2017)

OKAY, OUT OF THE BLUE. 

Anyone here tried the Mooer preamps? I'm super interested in the 008 since I've also been looking into the Mesa Mark tone. That or the Powertone or EVH 5153 modeler.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jul 22, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> OKAY, OUT OF THE BLUE.
> 
> Anyone here tried the Mooer preamps? I'm super interested in the 008 since I've also been looking into the Mesa Mark tone. That or the Powertone or EVH 5153 modeler.



I've been really curious about these as well but there isn't a store even remotely close that sells Mooer stuff to try them out. At that price it'd be pretty tempting to get a couple but given the gear I already have, I'd want it to sound quite a bit different than what I already have and I'm too much of a wuss to order stuff and then ship it back just for not liking it.

That being said, here's a pretty cool demo of the "high gain" ones that ISN'T an "Ola" demo... lol


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## El Caco (Jul 22, 2017)

Like I said earlier. I have the 009, it sounds great. I'm just not a fan of the form factor, I thought I would be but it's just not me.


----------



## kylendm (Jul 23, 2017)

I'm going to stick with saying try out the modular stuff. The new Synergy line is seems like it's going to be cool but the modded modules are insane. Salvation Mods and Jaded Faith Mods have some great sounding modules from clean to absolutely brutal.
I've been rocking the Cali-Lead/Ultra-Lead module that replicates it's Fryette counterpart. I also have the D-Zilla which is a Herbert/VH4 in one kind of module that gets some super thick clear heavy tones.
I made a quick clip of the Ultra-Lead





https://soundcloud.com/kylendm/cali-lead-module-3/s-tkNEF
Just used line out from my RM4 and used a random impulse.

Here's another clip I did of some other modules but in a mix, including the one above.
https://soundcloud.com/kylendm/jaded-faith-module-shootout


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## Shask (Jul 23, 2017)

http://www.valeton.net/html/en/index.php?ac=article&at=read&did=206


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## Spinedriver (Jul 23, 2017)

Shask said:


> http://www.valeton.net/html/en/index.php?ac=article&at=read&did=206




Yikes, does that ever look sketchy. It's obviously a knock off of the Tech21 Fly Rig so it'd probably be worth it to just shell out a couple extra dollars and just get the real thing that probably sounds a LOT better as well.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 23, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Instead of that, I'd say just buy either the RK5 or Cali Fly Rigs from Tech 21. Judging by the website, those look pretty sketchy and seeing how there's only 1 distributor in all of North America, it's probably not a good sign.



My friend has one and actually really likes it. Said he thought it was better than the Tech 21 in a high-gain situation.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jul 23, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> My friend has one and actually really likes it. Said he thought it was better than the Tech 21 in a high-gain situation.



I found a demo of one and I have to admit it sounds better than I thought it would. On the other hand, it doesn't have the 'cab sim' output that the Fly Rig does, so I don't know how well it would work going either direct or through a power amp.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 23, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> I found a demo of one and I have to admit it sounds better than I thought it would. On the other hand, it doesn't have the 'cab sim' output that the Fly Rig does, so I don't know how well it would work going either direct or through a power amp.



It has a cab sim. It's defeatable on the top of the unit. I've checked out tons of videos on the Dapper Dark, and they're either going direct, through FX loops, or in front of the amp.

Probably not gonna consider it, though. I have decided that I'm gonna skip the E530, though. 

It's now between the Mooer 003, 008, Rockmaster, or Theta pedal/preamp.


----------



## Shask (Jul 23, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Yikes, does that ever look sketchy. It's obviously a knock off of the Tech21 Fly Rig so it'd probably be worth it to just shell out a couple extra dollars and just get the real thing that probably sounds a LOT better as well.



I have never heard of these until yesterday, but I thought it looked cool. It looks like it would be better for metal than a Tech 21, and has boost, noise gate, chorus, and delay, which is pretty much the essential metal effects. Seems like this company makes a bunch of cheaper effects, like Joyo, Mooer, Caline, etc....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 23, 2017)

Shask said:


> I have never heard of these until yesterday, but I thought it looked cool. It looks like it would be better for metal than a Tech 21, and has boost, noise gate, chorus, and delay, which is pretty much the essential metal effects. Seems like this company makes a bunch of cheaper effects, like Joyo, Mooer, Caline, etc....



Yeah, my friend said it was MUCH better for high-gain than the Tech 21 Fly Rig stuff. Only problem is that it was good at metal and nothing else.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 23, 2017)

My vote is either rockmaster or Theta.


----------



## op1e (Jul 23, 2017)

What was cool about the Rockmaster when i had it was the loops. I put a HT-Dual in the loop of the crunch channel so I'd have something Brit sounding. I have a loop switcher now so really not needed, but I'd still like to get another. I ran an A/B with my Ultra 120 a bunch of times. It's really not an Ultra but close. More like 5150 but not really either.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jul 23, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It has a cab sim. It's defeatable on the top of the unit. I've checked out tons of videos on the Dapper Dark, and they're either going direct, through FX loops, or in front of the amp.
> 
> Probably not gonna consider it, though. I have decided that I'm gonna skip the E530, though.
> 
> It's now between the Mooer 003, 008, Rockmaster, or Theta pedal/preamp.



You could probably get both of the Mooers for the price of the Theta alone.. lol 
It's situations like this where it'd be nice to be able to try them out before committing to one or the other.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 23, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> You could probably get both of the Mooers for the price of the Theta alone.. lol
> It's situations like this where it'd be nice to be able to try them out before committing to one or the other.



Only problem I have with the Mooers is that they might feel a wee bit too digital. Otherwise I'd definitely check out the Powertone, 5153, or Mark 3 pedals.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 23, 2017)

Okay, since I can't edit, I'll have to double-post. 

I decided I'm actually gonna get two of the Mooer pedals.  The 005 5153 is a must because I love the 5153 to absolute death.

But the 2nd one I want something more versatile and midrangey. Something with a thicker tone. Think of 2000's alt-metal like Breaking Benjamin (Phobia), Sevendust, and Chevelle. So it's either the 003 Powerzone, which is a clone of the Koch Powertone. That, or the 003 Cali Lead (?), which is the Mark 3 sim.

So, anyone wanna tell me about the Mooer 003 and 008 pedals? That, or has anyone tried a Koch Powertone? Or can the Mooer 003 get close to a Mark III?


----------



## El Caco (Jul 23, 2017)

Just to fuel your GAS Phil McKnight did a video on the 005 the other day and will be doing 4 more, I don't follow his twitter but I think you can check there what 4 other models he grabbed.

When listening to the cab sim in this video (which I doubt you will use anyway) keep in mind they are different in each pedal and based off the matching real life cab I believe. I only say that because I think the 009 cab is better than the one in this video.



Keep in mind I use my Mooer through a tube power amp but my 009 does not feel digital. If you think what I think you mean by "feeling digital" I would describe the 009 as feeling less digital than a E530 when playing through my Mesa 20/20. And of course the E530 isn't digital, it is a tube Preamp.

I'll put the strings direct video I refer to here at the end of this post just in case you haven't watched it as they talk about feeling and they compare the 009 very favourably to a real Blackmore. I've also seen videos comparing the 005 to the real thing and like in this video, in those videos it compares very favourably. The reason for pointing that out is because in this video they talk about feeling and they say the 009 feels really good, like the real thing but they don't like the 005. And here is my take on their thoughts. They run all the pedals through a Blackmore's poweramp and they really love the Blackmore so it doesn't surprise me that not every pedal sounds good through that poweramp and it doesn't surprise me at all that in this video they don't like the 005. They shouldn't all feel the same, the real things don't feel the same and if you like a certain type of amp in real life I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't like an accurate model of a very different amp, chances are you wouldn't like the real thing. But it goes without saying that plugging an 005 into a Blackmore poweramp you wouldn't expect it to feel like a 5150. Of course I can't speak to the feeling of any pedal but the 009 and I can't compare it to the real thing but with the 009 to me it feels pretty good and very much like I would expect.

Indulge me for a moment here because I read a lot of comments about feel or how something reacts that seem to come from people who have strange expectations or sometimes the comments are just flat out bizarre. I'll give you an example. I read a comment yesterday about the ID260, it was basically saying it is great as long as you don't expect it to be a tube amp. Now as a guy who owns it and tube amps and has played a bunch of other tube amps and really loves nice tube amps that comment is really bizarre. For me the first thing the Blackstar had to prove to me was that it is good enough to replace my Mesa 20/20 which I love. I wasn't expecting perfection but what I got was better. It can nail my Mesa 20/20 but it can also exceed my 20/20 because it can have far more headroom when I need it. And that is what I found weird about the comment saying not to expect a tube amp, my initial response to such a statement is "what tube amp?" but the Blackstar is kind of like a lot of different tube amps so when I see such a comment I think "how hard did you try before writing that?". Just because each of the voices and each of the TVP options respond and feel different and the preamp gain and the preamp volume and the ISF and the resonance and the presence and the master volume all individually change how the amp feels and responds. Oh and depending on how you have set those then the EQ can even change the feeling, for example you can set it up so the EQ can tighten up the amp just like some amps do in real life.

I'm almost done. The thing with preamps is a lot of people expect it to feel like playing through a tube stack. If you want a 005 to feel like a 5150 plugged into your favourite Engl cab then maybe you will be disappointed. If a 005 is accurate it should feel like the preamp from the real thing and then if you plug it into the loop return of a 5150 it should feel the same as if you plugged in the front of the 5150. People seem to underestimate how much of a role both the poweramp and cab play in the feeling. Now keep in mind I have never experienced The Two Notes Stuff but to this point I have not experienced a cab sim that gives me the feeling of playing through a real guitar cab even when played through my powered PA cab that has a 15 in it and is similar in volume to a 212 cab. Different cabs respond and feel different to each other, just changing the speaker can effect this.

Based on limited experience with just the 009 and from watching Youtube reviews of the Mooer pedals I think they are pretty good at imitating the tube preamp feel or response of the amps they are modelling.


----------



## Grindspine (Jul 23, 2017)

Sansamp PSA 1.1.. used for under $500


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 23, 2017)

That 005 is pretty cool.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

And now I'm listening to demos of the LeLead again... Motherfucker. 

It kinda reminds me of the Rocktron Piranha. A hybrid take on the Recto sound. Kinda has that early-revision Dual Recto tone to it.

Still interested in the 005, though, The Rockmaster seems hard to find nowadays, so the 005 seems like it'll be close enough.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And now I'm listening to demos of the LeLead again... Motherfucker.
> 
> It kinda reminds me of the Rocktron Piranha. A hybrid take on the Recto sound. Kinda has that early-revision Dual Recto tone to it.
> 
> Still interested in the 005, though, The Rockmaster seems hard to find nowadays, so the 005 seems like it'll be close enough.


I have a Le Clean, and while it's not much if anything like the Le Lead, I almost never use the A+B options.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

IF I get it, I'd never use it. Just need the dirt.

Fuck it's hard to make up my mind.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IF I get it, I'd never use it. Just need the dirt.
> 
> Fuck it's hard to make up my mind.


Ah, okay. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. Frankly, I thought the Le Crunch and Le Lead sounded awful, but I loved the Le Clean. I have the two Amptweakers that I use as preamps, and needed a clean preamp, so I went with the Le Clean.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Ah, okay. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. Frankly, I thought the Le Crunch and Le Lead sounded awful, but I loved the Le Clean. I have the two Amptweakers that I use as preamps, and needed a clean preamp, so I went with the Le Clean.



If you had the Le Lead, what DIDNT you like about it?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If you had the Le Lead, what DIDNT you like about it?


I didn't have the Le Lead. I was just going on demos and stuff. I didn't really care for the tones in the videos. For me, I thought the Le Crunch was alright, but I like what the Tight Drive Pro and Big Rock Pro do in the Marshall realm. After getting the TDP and BRP, I noticed I didn't have anything to do clean tones, or slight breakup kind of tones, so I started looking again. I gave the Two Notes Le stuff another look, and focused on the Le Clean because it does nice Fender tones. I find both sides useful, and both sides take pedals well. Maybe the Le Lead is better when you can personally tweak it and play with it with your gear, etc., but I didn't care for it enough to put out $300 for it. Also, if you get the Le Lead, make sure you unplug it when you're done playing, because even if it's bypassed, it's still on internally, which you can see if you turn the lights off and look in the little window.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

After thinking... again...  Yeah, I'm gonna stick with something tonally similar to the Peavey. I really fucking love my 5150II. Just need something smaller. So the Mooer 005 is a must. Or the Rockmaster IF I can find one.

I STILL want something with a bit of a thicker, midrangier, meatier sound though. It's why I'm also considering the 003 and 008 pedals. The sound that comes to mind is Sevendust. The sound on Home is amazing.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If you had the Le Lead, what DIDNT you like about it?


If you're considering spending Le Lead money, you need to try the the Theta. I'd say buy 'em both from somewhere that has a good return policy and keep the winner, haha.

I know there's a lot to process, but consider this: the Theta produced a tone that is still in my top 5 most brutal tones I've ever played with. I currently own a 6505+ and e530. I've owned the Theta head and Theta pre. I've played through an Engl Invader II, most of the 5150 variants, multiple Triple Rectifiers, a Mesa mk2b collosseum, a Diezel Herbert, a Randall RD45, an Orange Rocker, etc...

The ones I got the most brutal tones out of: Theta, block letter 5150, Invader 2, RD45, and E530 in no particular order.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> After thinking... again...  Yeah, I'm gonna stick with something tonally similar to the Peavey. I really fucking love my 5150II. Just need something smaller. So the Mooer 005 is a must. Or the Rockmaster IF I can find one.
> 
> I STILL want something with a bit of a thicker, midrangier, meatier sound though. It's why I'm also considering the 003 and 008 pedals. The sound that comes to mind is Sevendust. The sound on Home is amazing.



If you need two preamps, I suggest two AMT pedals, because if memory serves, you can route them so that you can bypass one and go to the other like switching channels. Get the P1 and R1. Or get the 2 versions of both if you need a clean. End of story.


----------



## lewis (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> After thinking... again...  Yeah, *I'm gonna stick with something tonally similar to the Peavey*. I really fucking love my 5150II. Just need something smaller. So the Mooer 005 is a must. Or the Rockmaster IF I can find one.
> 
> I STILL want something with a bit of a thicker, midrangier, meatier sound though. It's why I'm also considering the 003 and 008 pedals. The sound that comes to mind is Sevendust. The sound on Home is amazing.



then get the MXR EVH 5150 preamp pedal?

EDIT: Also has a built in Noise gate which is handy


----------



## Shoeless_jose (Jul 24, 2017)

maybe late to the party, but Mesa V-Twin pedal, can be gotten on Reverb for well below 500, tube preamp, super aggressive, compact, mesa reliability. Just a thought.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

lewis said:


> then get the MXR EVH 5150 preamp pedal?
> 
> EDIT: Also has a built in Noise gate which is handy


I believe Misha Mansoor used one in a preamp to cab sim application to demo his Precision Drive or whatever it's called. Sounded pretty good that way.


----------



## sandalhat (Jul 24, 2017)

I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread, just the beginning and end pages. In my searching for a similar type of rig, I have bought both the Le Lead and the BE-OD. Both sound fantastic in my opinion. I will say I wasn't really impressed with the sounds in videos of the Le Lead and the fusion mode is not useful. However, the base tone coupled with the tweakability via the sweep knob or whatever they call it sold me on trying it. I'm glad I did!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

sandalhat said:


> I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread, just the beginning and end pages. In my searching for a similar type of rig, I have bought both the Le Lead and the BE-OD. Both sound fantastic in my opinion. I will say I wasn't really impressed with the sounds in videos of the Le Lead and the fusion mode is not useful. However, the base tone coupled with the tweakability via the sweep knob or whatever they call it sold me on trying it. I'm glad I did!



What would you say it's close to? The videos make it seem like a Recto with more midrane.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> What would you say it's close to? The videos make it seem like a Recto with more midrane.


I vaguely remember Fluff saying it was supposed to sound like a mildly tweaked Recto.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

youngthrasher9 said:


> I vaguely remember Fluff saying it was supposed to sound like a mildly tweaked Recto.



That's why I'm interested in the Le Lead. It sounds like all the parts of a Recto I love. Has the thickness, but with more midrange.


----------



## lewis (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's why I'm interested in the Le Lead. It sounds like all the parts of a Recto I love. Has the thickness, but with more midrange.


also that "sound" tightens up brilliantly. Run say a Horizon devices Boost infront of a Le Lead and I imagine you get awesome modern tones.

Ive heard the built in boost in it is bad so I would want a seperate boost pedal to tighten it. The HD one makes sense too because of the built in gate


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's why I'm interested in the Le Lead. It sounds like all the parts of a Recto I love. Has the thickness, but with more midrange.


If you want a cheap recto fix, try the Hotone Heart Attack. Hilariously good for the money. I used my brothers' as a pre into my 6505+ fx return one day and it was destructive.


----------



## sandalhat (Jul 24, 2017)

I've never gotten to spend much time with a recto, unfortunately. However, I do think that the Le Lead has a similar voice from my limited experience. 

I should stress how much I like the sweep knob. It really lets you tweak the voicing to sit just how you want it to. 

The MIDI implementation is also great because it's easily reprogrammed and can be pretty flexible.


----------



## lewis (Jul 24, 2017)

sandalhat said:


> I've never gotten to spend much time with a recto, unfortunately. However, I do think that the Le Lead has a similar voice from my limited experience.
> 
> I should stress how much I like the sweep knob. It really lets you tweak the voicing to sit just how you want it to.
> 
> The MIDI implementation is also great because it's easily reprogrammed and can be pretty flexible.


what was great too about the Two Notes preamps were they spoke to each other.

Loved that you could get the le clean and the le lead and have your clean channel and rhythm channel change with just 1 footswitch hit.
Obviously other effects going in their loops etc is cool too.
would be perfect on a pedalboard.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

It sucks I have plenty of time to research, because my mind keeps fluctuating.  I started reading reviews for the Mooer pedals and the reception seems to be kinda mixed? This isn't helping. 

I went back and started listening to clips of the AMT Legend series stuff... I really dig how the P1, P2, and K2 sound. Especially the K2 here.


@ around 8:00.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jul 24, 2017)

Just received my Wampler Dracarys today... I'll let you know how that goes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> Just received my Wampler Dracarys today... I'll let you know how that goes.



My experience with dirt boxes in the Two Notes is... kinda eh.  

I tried running a Rat into my Torpedo Live and it was suuuuper quiet.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> My experience with dirt boxes in the Two Notes is... kinda eh.
> 
> I tried running a Rat into my Torpedo Live and it was suuuuper quiet.



That doesn't sound right? I don't own a Two Notes, but I thought that was the whole point? I've run my Emma and some other dirt pedals through a Fryette PS2 (as well as the CP100 direct to DAW and powered speakers) and it was awesome.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

sandalhat said:


> I've never gotten to spend much time with a recto, unfortunately. However, I do think that the Le Lead has a similar voice from my limited experience.
> 
> I should stress how much I like the sweep knob. It really lets you tweak the voicing to sit just how you want it to.
> 
> The MIDI implementation is also great because it's easily reprogrammed and can be pretty flexible.


The sweep knob is great on the Le Clean. You can get dark Fender tones as well as brighter, bitier tones. Definitely useful unlike the fusion mode. I think if I spent more time and tweaked so that both a and b worked in fusion mode together, I'd probably like it, but then I'd have an A and a B that I don't like sperate. I can almost get some Marshall ish tones if I tweak the mid and sweep knobs just right and set the treble a little darker.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> That doesn't sound right? I don't own a Two Notes, but I thought that was the whole point? I've run my Emma and some other dirt pedals through a Fryette PS2 (as well as the CP100 direct to DAW and powered speakers) and it was awesome.


Some pedals don't have the whatever internally to work well as a preamp. The Le stuff, as well as the Amptweaker pedals do though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Some pedals don't have the whatever internally to work well as a preamp. The Le stuff, as well as the Amptweaker pedals do though.



Yeah, it's why I'm looking at preamp pedals instead of regular ol' distortion boxes. A lot of pedals have a normal instrument-level output, while preamps and some dirt pedals have a line level (I think) output.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jul 24, 2017)

The Two Note doesn't have either line sense or different input modes?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> The Two Note doesn't have either line sense or different input modes?



Nope. Just seems to be set for a line out. I have to crank the volumes to get a usable volume, and it's still very low.


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## USMarine75 (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nope. Just seems to be set for a line out. I have to crank the volumes to get a usable volume, and it's still very low.



I've always heard you can take a passive DI box and plug it in backwards, to go from instrument to line level, and step up the 40 or so dB necessary. Maybe one of the studio gurus here can confirm?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

USMarine75 said:


> I've always heard you can take a passive DI box and plug it in backwards, to go from instrument to line level, and step up the 40 or so dB necessary. Maybe one of the studio gurus here can confirm?


That's an interesting idea and might work, though I've never futzed around with this before to see. But yeah, a Rat is super quiet without the Le Clean preamp on.


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## Shask (Jul 24, 2017)

Maybe just an active level shifter, or active DI box.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 24, 2017)

I rather not buy a 2nd piece of equipment for a pedal that I probably won't even like.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I rather not buy a 2nd piece of equipment for a pedal that I probably won't even like.


What pedal are we even talking about anyways? Either way, the suggestion might be helpful for others who stumble upon this thread in the year 2053.


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## mnemonic (Jul 25, 2017)

The AMT K2 in that video does sound pretty good. I was interested in that one as I've always wanted to try a Krank, but I'm too much of a recto fanboy so I think I'll get the R2. 

But if it's good, maybe I'll also get the K2


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## vick1000 (Jul 25, 2017)




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## Shask (Jul 25, 2017)

Back to AMT 

That K2 does sound pretty good in that video. I think the Krank Rev was a modded JCM800 based amp if I remember correctly. It does have that high gain crunchy Marshall thing going on in that video.

I love Rectos, but the P2 has always sounded better to me in videos than the R2. The R2 sounds kind of hollow like it is missing something.

What about the AMT SS-30 Bulava??


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 25, 2017)

Yeah, my least favorite, suprisingly, is the R pedal from what I've heard. I really dig the P and K pedals, though. 

Which AMT pedal is the Stonehead's preamp based on? I really dig that amp.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 25, 2017)

I'm gonna be a dick here and say that I thought the AMT P2 wasn't awesome. IME from when I owned it, it sounded exactly like a 5150 but the controls didn't do a whole lot to the tone. I just felt the tone shaping was a little limited. If you had a 10 band EQ it'd probably be perfect.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 25, 2017)

So, I ended up finding an ISP Theta pedal for very cheap used.

Snagged it. So it seems like I found what I wanted.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 25, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, I ended up finding an ISP Theta pedal for very cheap used.
> 
> Snagged it. So it seems like I found what I wanted.


Let us know how it works out.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 26, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, I ended up finding an ISP Theta pedal for very cheap used.
> 
> Snagged it. So it seems like I found what I wanted.


 You will fucking love it bro.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 26, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Let us know how it works out.



I shall.  Always wanted a theta so I'm eager to try this. 



youngthrasher9 said:


> You will fucking love it bro.



Hoping so. like I said, always wanted a Theta, so this'll be a gateway into that.


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## USMarine75 (Jul 26, 2017)

Can't argue, the Theta is an excellent choice. 

FWIW I just got to really work out the Wampler Dracarys... and Brian is a tone GOD. It turned my 1960 Fender Bassman 410 into a... well... into an Ola youtube demo lol.


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## Metalman X (Jul 26, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, I ended up finding an ISP Theta pedal for very cheap used.
> 
> Snagged it. So it seems like I found what I wanted.



That is a savage preamp.... if you take the time experimenting with the EQ's, and how they interact, you can get a big variety of tones with it. But all with it's own flavor. 

I had the pedal for a little while, wound up selling to eventually fund an Axe FX Ultra. Still have, and love the Axe, but that Theta pedal I still wish I kept. It had it's own special kinda' brutality to it (it actually can make some pretty cleans too.... but nobody buys a Theta for the cleans.... do they?)

Just spotted a used Theta head at my local GC yesterday marked down to $300 cuz it has issues with one of the channels not producing sound.... so, if your into that sorta' thing, it could be a project. I'd investigate it myself.... buuuuuut my financial situation is a dumster fire right now, and the foreseeable future. but just thought I'd pass that intel along cuz it seems like it could be a potentially killer deal for the right person.


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## Thanatopsis (Jul 28, 2017)

Looks like your search is over, I was going to add another vote for the Rockmaster. I've had one running through a Peavey Classic 60/60 power amp for about 4 years now and still love the setup. I wasn't completely satisfied at first though but once I swapped C14 from a .001uF to a .0022uF and added an EQ in the loop it's my favourite rig I've ever owned. I made the same mod for a friend and he was equally happy with it. I've been thinking about trying a 1.0uF instead of the .47uF at C17 too but just haven't gotten around to it since I'm so happy with it plus I just haven't been very happy with life lately and haven't had it in me to play for a little bit.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 29, 2017)

Thanatopsis said:


> Looks like your search is over, I was going to add another vote for the Rockmaster. I've had one running through a Peavey Classic 60/60 power amp for about 4 years now and still love the setup. I wasn't completely satisfied at first though but once I swapped C14 from a .001uF to a .0022uF and added an EQ in the loop it's my favourite rig I've ever owned. I made the same mod for a friend and he was equally happy with it. I've been thinking about trying a 1.0uF instead of the .47uF at C17 too but just haven't gotten around to it since *I'm so happy with it* plus I just haven't been very happy with life lately and haven't had it in me to play for a little bit.


Then I definitely wouldn't screw around with it. Just Ron Popeil that shit: Set it, and forget it!

I kinda wish I had a Rockmaster, both the preamp and the head. The head was like a JCM800 and apparently Peavey got in trouble for it or some shit. As for the preamp, I've heard some good stuff about it.


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## B.M.F. (Jul 29, 2017)

Thanatopsis said:


> Looks like your search is over, I was going to add another vote for the Rockmaster. I've had one running through a Peavey Classic 60/60 power amp for about 4 years now and still love the setup.



My Rockmaster sounds very good stock, I am loving the tones. I've only played Bandit and XXL before but this is like the real Peavey with balls (XXX or JSX anyway). When I have the time I will really dig into this thing. Right now I'm messing with the Tech 21 SansAmp PSA1 and that is very good for high gain.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 29, 2017)

I really love the Amptweaker and Le Clean pedals into the AMT power amp I'm using, but I kinda wish I had a rack setup, with maybe a Lee Jackson Perfect Connection power amp, and A/DA MP-1, Peavey Rockmaster, SansAmp PSA1, or Lee Jackson GP-1000.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm still gonna find a Rockmaster down the road. I loved the clarity of my XXX and I feel like the Rockmaster would have even more midrange grind and tightness. I want that Peavey sound in a smaller package.

The Theta preamp would be useful because I can condense my setup to just a pedalboard + Torpedo Live.


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## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm still gonna find a Rockmaster down the road. I loved the clarity of my XXX and I feel like the Rockmaster would have even more midrange grind and tightness. I want that Peavey sound in a smaller package.
> 
> The Theta preamp would be useful because I can condense my setup to just a pedalboard + Torpedo Live.


omg you now make me want to find a rockmaster and run a dual stereo setup pairing it with my engl e530


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## op1e (Jul 29, 2017)

There's a guy on here that does that. Here's a nice comparison video.


I have an MTS module based off the e530 and its getting me in the area of my old Rockmaster, Peavey Ultra 120. But with a bit more low mids kinda Recto flavor I guess.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2017)

I noticed that when I watched the video. The slight difference I notice is that the "grind" in the E530 is closer to the low mids while the Rockmaster is more high middy. 

Dare I say the Rockmaster sounds a bit tighter, too?


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## op1e (Jul 29, 2017)

Thanatopsis said:


> Looks like your search is over, I was going to add another vote for the Rockmaster. I've had one running through a Peavey Classic 60/60 power amp for about 4 years now and still love the setup. I wasn't completely satisfied at first though but once I swapped C14 from a .001uF to a .0022uF and added an EQ in the loop it's my favourite rig I've ever owned. I made the same mod for a friend and he was equally happy with it. I've been thinking about trying a 1.0uF instead of the .47uF at C17 too but just haven't gotten around to it since I'm so happy with it plus I just haven't been very happy with life lately and haven't had it in me to play for a little bit.



Is that C14 mod the one that cures the thin buzziness when you pull out the gain knobs? I always wanted to get my Rockmaster to sound as tight and sharp as my Ultra 120, but when I pulled those out to get there it just all went bad. Also as for the AMT P1, I really wanna love mine. But the 6-6-6 setting doesn't really work and I seem to have to run the bass at 9 o'clock to get the thing controllable. Changing from a OD808 to the MXR CBMO really helped. But compared to any of my MTS modules, amps, models in my 1101, it's barely controllable with the low end and noise I get from it. It's still on the chopping block. I'm running it in a loop switcher into the return of my amps.


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## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I noticed that when I watched the video. The slight difference I notice is that the "grind" in the E530 is closer to the low mids while the Rockmaster is more high middy.
> 
> Dare I say the Rockmaster sounds a bit tighter, too?


literally a perfect blend then haha

Im going to save some money and just keep an eye out in the future for a Rockmaster. I imagine they are quite rare now but Ive got plenty of time.


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## op1e (Jul 29, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I noticed that when I watched the video. The slight difference I notice is that the "grind" in the E530 is closer to the low mids while the Rockmaster is more high middy.
> 
> Dare I say the Rockmaster sounds a bit tighter, too?



That's the Age Old Dilemma. Tightness vs punch, push, grind, whatever. Coming from the Rockmaster's short bid or Ultra 120 for ten years, what do I miss more? A bit of tightness or what the Engl module has to offer and overall girth of tone? I'm pretty happy right now. Now if I could mod my Ultra 120 with a Presence and Resonance mod and run two Kt88 or 4 6550's in it, this story might have a different outcome. Been thinking about that for a while now. But as long as I can pick up RM100's with no modules for $350 and have a midi controlled amp that I can put ANY form of power tube in and bias myself, it's kinda hard to justify the cost.


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## op1e (Jul 29, 2017)

Think of this, though. Add a pre EQ to that Rockmaster and boost the low mids a couple DB. Post EQ a couple DB at 125hz and you're right there. Rockmasters go for around $200 used (what I paid). e530 goes for double used or 3x that new. If I could do that and run a Rockmaster into my KT88 power section... of my jeebus.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 29, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I noticed that when I watched the video. The slight difference I notice is that the "grind" in the E530 is closer to the low mids while the Rockmaster is more high middy.
> 
> Dare I say the Rockmaster sounds a bit tighter, too?


Maybe biased, but I think I can only count on one hand the number of amps I've heard or played that are as tight as the e530.


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## Thanatopsis (Jul 31, 2017)

op1e said:


> Is that C14 mod the one that cures the thin buzziness when you pull out the gain knobs? I always wanted to get my Rockmaster to sound as tight and sharp as my Ultra 120, but when I pulled those out to get there it just all went bad. Also as for the AMT P1, I really wanna love mine. But the 6-6-6 setting doesn't really work and I seem to have to run the bass at 9 o'clock to get the thing controllable. Changing from a OD808 to the MXR CBMO really helped. But compared to any of my MTS modules, amps, models in my 1101, it's barely controllable with the low end and noise I get from it. It's still on the chopping block. I'm running it in a loop switcher into the return of my amps.


It definitely helps with that. C17 is supposed to as well but I was happy enough with C14 and an EQ I didn't get around to C17. One nice thing about the C14 mod is it's very easily undone if you change your mind. and the parts are cheap so worst case scenario you've wasted maybe a couple dollars and under an hour of your time.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2017)

Well I was hoping to get the pedal today, but for some reason the package got delayed. 

Always tomorrow.


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## getowned7474 (Aug 3, 2017)

So what do you think about the Theta?

Also which two notes preamp do you guys think would be best for the center of a versatile rig? I have been watching videos of them and really like the sounds and features of all 3. Basically the 4 main tones I'm going for are a fender-esque clean on the edge of breakup, a mid gain british sound, a high gain british sound,and a modern high gain sound.

I have some different pedals I can use in front of the preamp to get some of these tones like a BE-OD clone and I might make a VH4 pedal clone.

I think I value the british sounds most at the moment but I would like options for all of those tones I mentioned. 

If I get the leClean - use channel 2 for edge of breakup tone, channel 1 as crystal clean tone. Run BE-OD and maybe a VH4 Pedal to get the rest of my tones. This gives me the best, most authentic cleans but requires more drive pedals.

LeCrunch - The clean sound is a sort of plexi sound rather than fender but I can make it work. Use channel 2 for mid gain british sound and boost with fusion for high gain british. I can use external gain pedal for a modern high gain sound. I really like the sounds I'm getting from my BE-OD but I think this may sound a little more amp-like.

LeLead - The clean sound is a little too sterile/bland imo but I can use an OD like wampler black 65 to get that light fender kind of breakup. I can use my BE-OD into the clean channel to get my british sounds. And then of course great high gain sounds from channel 2.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 3, 2017)

getowned7474 said:


> So what do you think about the Theta?



Really dig it. It's brash, aggressive, and mean as fuck. Doesn't sound tubey in the slightest, but it's REALLY mean. Not as tight as my Peavey 5150II, but you can mess with the preamp and tighten it that way.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 7, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Really dig it. It's brash, aggressive, and mean as fuck. Doesn't sound tubey in the slightest, but it's REALLY mean. Not as tight as my Peavey 5150II, but you can mess with the preamp and tighten it that way.


Sounds awesome, dude. Glad you're happy with your new preamp.


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## Spinedriver (Aug 7, 2017)

Just as a slight update: I've tried using the Bogner Red pedal through my monitors (as opposed to headphones, since the wife is outside gardening  ), and it sounds much better.

So I guess I should say that for 'amp' use it's pretty decent. It's just that when used directly for headphone/recording purposes, it's not quite as good because the 'imperfections' that you can pick up on good headphones really aren't that noticeable through speakers.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 7, 2017)

Mesa Formula


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 7, 2017)

Been a week or so since I've gotten it. Still love it. Super growly and tight AF. Kinda reminds me of some traits of the Mesa Mark series.

Rockmaster's definitely on the backburner. Preamp's doing everything I need. If I need different sounds, I'll consider the Mooer 5153 preamp, or a Marvel Drive for the Marshally crunch.


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## Shask (Aug 7, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Just as a slight update: I've tried using the Bogner Red pedal through my monitors (as opposed to headphones, since the wife is outside gardening  ), and it sounds much better.
> 
> So I guess I should say that for 'amp' use it's pretty decent. It's just that when used directly for headphone/recording purposes, it's not quite as good because the 'imperfections' that you can pick up on good headphones really aren't that noticeable through speakers.



Usually everything sounds like a$$ though headphones, lol. I have an Axe-FX II and ATH-M50X headphones, and still don't love the sound.


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## Spinedriver (Aug 8, 2017)

Shask said:


> Usually everything sounds like a$$ though headphones, lol. I have an Axe-FX II and ATH-M50X headphones, and still don't love the sound.



Really ? I have the same M50's and I find that my GSP1101 sounds great. Mind you, It largely depends on which IR is loaded and with which amp because it does makes a HUGE difference which ones are paired up.. I'd imagine though that the Ecstacy pedal was primarily designed to go in front of an amp and they never really thought about people using it direct into an interface (given the insane number of options already out there). I'm sure that after a while I could get it to sound really good but for now I'll just keep it for 'monitor' use, I guess.


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## Shask (Aug 8, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Really ? I have the same M50's and I find that my GSP1101 sounds great. Mind you, It largely depends on which IR is loaded and with which amp because it does makes a HUGE difference which ones are paired up.. I'd imagine though that the Ecstacy pedal was primarily designed to go in front of an amp and they never really thought about people using it direct into an interface (given the insane number of options already out there). I'm sure that after a while I could get it to sound really good but for now I'll just keep it for 'monitor' use, I guess.



With me, I am just not a big fan of that direct sound. Playing through IRs are OK for recording and layering tones, but very uninspiring when just playing for fun. I almost always prefer going through a guitar cab for tone and feel when just jamming. Usually headphones are like preference #1024 when it comes to just jamming.

I think I just grew up for too long before IRs were a thing. They just dont sound and feel right to me. Very flat and fuzzy sounding.


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## Spinedriver (Aug 8, 2017)

Shask said:


> With me, I am just not a big fan of that direct sound. Playing through IRs are OK for recording and layering tones, but very uninspiring when just playing for fun. I almost always prefer going through a guitar cab for tone and feel when just jamming. Usually headphones are like preference #1024 when it comes to just jamming.
> 
> I think I just grew up for too long before IRs were a thing. They just dont sound and feel right to me. Very flat and fuzzy sounding.



Same here.. I started playing around '87 or so and it's only been since I got the 1101 that I started really using IRs. I agree that when using them it sounds like a 'recorded' tone but I guess that's just what I like. A lot of times though, it's just not practical to fire up an amp (or monitors in my case) & start blaring away. 

As for "flat & fuzzy", it really depends on which ones you use. Much like selecting the right cab for an amp, choosing IRs is pretty much the same thing. I've tried some that sound fantastic & others that sound hideous.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 9, 2017)

Not a preamp, but I kinda wish I had a J Rockett 10 Ton Hammer after finally playing my J Rockett Animal some.


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## Shask (Aug 9, 2017)

Spinedriver said:


> Same here.. I started playing around '87 or so and it's only been since I got the 1101 that I started really using IRs. I agree that when using them it sounds like a 'recorded' tone but I guess that's just what I like. A lot of times though, it's just not practical to fire up an amp (or monitors in my case) & start blaring away.
> 
> As for "flat & fuzzy", it really depends on which ones you use. Much like selecting the right cab for an amp, choosing IRs is pretty much the same thing. I've tried some that sound fantastic & others that sound hideous.



I "can" dial in some good FRFR tones, but it is usually a pain, lol. I have some old M-Audio SP-8B monitors I have owned for years that I use. They are not the best, but are OK. I often wonder if new monitors would help. I keep wanting to try a Friedman ASM-12 FRFR cab, but it is a lot of money to try it out. It is usually easier to just use my 212 cabs. I currently have mine hooked through a Matrix GT1000FX through two 212 cabs. It sounds pretty good and fills the room even at low volumes.

I have several IRs, including the Ohmhammer Heavy Hitters collection. I can dial in some decent sounds (especially when blending a ROOM or REAR IR), but it still sounds funny. It is annoying it takes $1000 in FRFR equipment to sound as good as a $200 amp, lol.


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## lewis (Aug 10, 2017)

Shask said:


> With me, I am just not a big fan of that direct sound. Playing through IRs are OK for recording and layering tones, but very uninspiring when just playing for fun. I almost always prefer going through a guitar cab for tone and feel when just jamming. Usually headphones are like preference #1024 when it comes to just jamming.
> 
> I think I just grew up for too long before IRs were a thing. They just dont sound and feel right to me. Very flat and fuzzy sounding.


could not agree more. Kemper is the only thing ive ever tried direct that bucked this trend. Regular IRs i have become incredibly disillusioned with.
so much so im leaving the kemper at home and creating a poweramp + cabinet setup


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