# Quick Theory Questions Behind Tech-Death / Tech-Deathcore



## Wings of Obsidian (Jun 24, 2013)

Hey guys, I realize this isn't everyone's cup o' tea, but I was hoping I could ask for some assistance since the guys here at SS.org have always been more than willing to lend a hand/ear.

I'm working on a new project, and I was just wondering if some of the "theory wizards" on here could help me decipher some of the theory implications behind the technical deathcore sounds of bands such as Infant Annihilator and Rings of Saturn. 

I dig the sound of the progressions and the "nastiness" (persay). And I want to being writing similar stuff (my own spin on it of course), but I just want to get a general idea of where to start and see what theory (or "lack of" theory) is involved to get that brutal sound. My guess is heavy chromaticism and some atonal chords? Use of dissonance?

Also, when it comes to just writing stuff like this, in order to get that dark sound, how do I exactly start out? Should I pick a scale (such as diminished half-whole or diminished whole-half) or mode and stick with it and use it as a basis to start writing riffs and rhythms within my given key? Or is that too "limiting" or too simple or too hard?

Lastly, I am inquiring about that famous "harmonized sweeping" sound that Lucas from Rings of Saturn has made famous (and Eddie from Infant Annihilator has used it - see second video). Harmonizing effect obviously. What is the harmony? Major 3rd? Minor 3rd? (My ears have been toying with me with trying to figure it out exactly.)

_Infant Annihilator - "Devotion to the Child Rape Syndicate" (Playthrough)_


_Infant Annihilator - "Paedophilic Supremacy"_


_Rings of Saturn - "Dingir" (Playthrough)_


_Lucas Mann (Rings of Saturn) Guest Solo for Infant Annihilator's "Flawed and Consumed"_


I really think I am overthinking this...

Any advice/tips/help is always greatly appreciated!


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## Wings of Obsidian (Jun 24, 2013)

Personally, I think it would be great if SchecterWhore could bless me with some insight because that dude......IS THE DUDE!


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## nostealbucket (Jun 24, 2013)

The wholetone scale is your friend


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## tripguitar (Jun 25, 2013)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Lastly, I am inquiring about that famous "harmonized sweeping" sound that Lucas from Rings of Saturn has made famous (and Eddie from Infant Annihilator has used it - see second video). Harmonizing effect obviously. What is the harmony? Major 3rd? Minor 3rd? (My ears have been toying with me with trying to figure it out exactly.)


 
(disclaimer: cant watch youtube vids at work... so i cant listen to the examples)

I havent heard the harmonies that your talking about with Rings of Saturn or Infant Annihilator but, I think the typical metal harmony is to just use 3rds as they live within the key signature, meaning the major or minor quality is determined by how the notes sit in the scale.

for example, if you are playing in A minor (yes, i hate accidentals... at least for explanation purposes!! haha), the notes are

A, B, C, D, E, F, G

So if you want to harmonize the B note, go up a third within the scale and there's your 3rd harmony. in the case of harmonizing the B note, the D is a minor 3rd away so this will end up being a minor 3rd harmony.

but if you want to harmonize the C note, (go up a 3rd within the scale) you would use the E note, which results in a Major 3rd.

Also, posting here in the theory forum helps me practice and retain my own theory knowledge, so if anyone else sees something wrong in my reply, please correct me as i am still learning myself!


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## carnagereap (Jun 25, 2013)

So in bands like this, the whole-tone scale is used extensively. There is almost always a degree of chromaticism as well. As for how to start out, ignore scales and modes and all that sweet theoretical goodness and just write something that you think is kind of cool or brutal. For these bands, they really like minor thirds for riffing as well as a little bit of accelerated chugging. As for leads, diminished runs and sweep tapping could be good. For the "alien harmonization," I believe Lucas said he used major thirds mostly. The splendor in this music is that there is no theory behind it, just brutal riffs and fast drums.


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## Wings of Obsidian (Jun 27, 2013)

Tripguitar: interesting... ^


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## DarkWolfXV (Jun 28, 2013)

Honestly, Deathcore and BDM is all chromatic scale on "teh brutz" parts. Tremolos diminished, most of the time. Techdeath guys do chromatic scale, diminished scale, harmonic minor scale (Especially harmonic minor in solos, see necrophagist, awesome sweeping.)

By the way, i see that you are trying to write some death metal since you are making all these threads, but not sure how. Look up some well known bands and analyze the structure, for example intro - tremolo, riff a - chuggy riff etc. and try your making your own riffs into the said structure. When you get the drift make your own structures. Picking the key of the song also helps. For example i pick F#, then i start the song on F# and use the notes for example in F# diminished, then go into chromatic slam riff using F# (In my case 2nd fret 2nd string) pinch harmonic on the last note of bar instead of any other note, so it gels together.

Here is an example of how would it look like in a tab (I made some random riffs):

Riff A (Tremolo 260bpm) x4

F#|------------3333-|
D|---------2222-----|
A|----3333----------|
E|2222--------------|
B|-------------------|x3

PH
F#|-----------------|
D|-------------------|
A|----3333----------|
E|2222----2~~------|
B|-------------------|

Riff B (Brief Interlude 60bpm)

Q Q Q Q
F#|---------------|
D|----------------|
A|----------------|
E|3---3---3---3---|
B|0 --0---0---0---|
PM. . . .

Riff C (Slamdown, a slam + breakdown in one, clever huh? 60 bpm) x4

PH
Q Q E E Q E. E. S 
B|---------------------------------|
F#|-------------------------------|
D|--------------------------------|
A|--------------------------------|
E|2---3----4--4--3----3---3---2^| (Bend full step)
B|0---1----2--2--0----0---0------|x3
PM. . . . . . .

Q is quarter note, E is eight note, E. is eight note with a dot, S is sixteenth note. All in 4/4.

EDIT: Gah forum doesn't translate tab well, but i hope you get the picture. Did it all in GP6 demo.


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## Wings of Obsidian (Jul 6, 2013)

^^^ took me a few minutes, but I got the drift of what you're saying, Wolfie.


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## r134 (Jul 8, 2013)

tritones.

HISTORY LESSON
In the days of gregorian chant, any interval was permitted, EXCEPT for the tritone (aug 4th/dim 5th) it was regarded as evil and satanic, and never allowed. 

Basically everything that was bad about is why you want to use it now. Its dark, suspenseful, and evil. 

you can take a 4th, and add a half step to the upper note, or take a 5th (power chord) and flatten the upper note, and youve got a tritone! so if the bottom note is a C, then the tritone will be an F#. 

sing here comes the bride. The distance between "here" and "comes" is a P4 (perfect 4th) increase "comes" by a half step, and theres your tritone. 

Another cool thing about tritones, is they are exactly half way up the scale. If you make a tritone from C to F#, a tritone up from F# is back to C. 

Another fun thing to do is combine a tritone with any other interval to make a interesting sounding chord. Because of that tritone, you can make even the sweetest chords sour (in a good way)

More reading:
Tritone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enjoy.


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