# Getting Rusty Cooley speeds without pick (finger shredding)



## Sugbaable (May 26, 2013)

So I've had that recent fascination lately, listening to stuff like AAL at first, and then Psyopus and Behold the Arctopus (only their technique, no way I can afford a Warr Guitar, haha), and even Chris Broderick, and I'm just super into 8 finger tapping and want to be awesome at it. But of course then what to do with your pick?
I know Chris Broderick has that cool pick thing, but I can't find any for sale, and even then, I think it'd be super cool if I could go without a pick. So I looked into some bassists (because they often use their fingers instead) to try to find techniques. Two bassists stuck out to me: Victor Wooten and Billy Sheehan.

Here's Wooten:


And here's Sheehan


And here is a guy doing a typical shred with just his fingers, looks more like the Wooten technique


And this is Rusty Cooley playing really fast


So I want to know, do you guys think this is possible? To play up to Rusty Cooley speeds with just my fingers? I would like to be able to do that, while playing some 8 finger tapping. I basically don't want any restrictions in either of those playing types.

I tried today with the Wooten technique (I'm more comfortable with it since I tried it on some of the AAL stuff like Infinite Regression where Tosin uses it), and I can only get upwards around 120 bpm 16th notes right now. The rusty cooley song is 16th notes at 250 bpm.

I was also wondering about pinch harmonics, sweep, tremolo picking chords, general tremolo picking... etc... just generally all of the picking techniques. Would those be possible?


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## ncfiala (May 26, 2013)

That fingerpicking shredder dude just made me poop my pants. Holy shit.

Seriously though, anything is possible I guess (except playing FOTB at 1000+ bpm). You shouldn't restrict yourself to one technique though. Some things can be picked but not tapped (or are at least easier picked), some things can be tapped but not picked (or are at least easier tapped), and some things can be done either way but can sound very different picked vs. tapped.

I don't really know why people want to play at 250+ bpm anyway. Pretty much everything played at those speeds sounds the same. I love Rusty, but he played that lick so fast that he pretty much lost that phrygian sound he was going for. It just sounded like a computer on meth.


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## thesnowdog (May 27, 2013)

When did MAB become "a guy"? Poor MAB...


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## DarkWolfXV (May 27, 2013)

ncfiala said:


> I don't really know why people want to play at 250+ bpm anyway. Pretty much everything played at those speeds sounds the same. I love Rusty, but he played that lick so fast that he pretty much lost that phrygian sound he was going for. It just sounded like a computer on meth.



Cryptopsy is 250 bpm tremolo picking (Serial Messiah is 250, and Gravaged is 260), duh. I wanna play Cryptopsy. And it sounds pretty comprehensible at such speeds.


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## Maniacal (May 27, 2013)

The last part of Cooleys lick is a bit of a mess. Fortunately, it is so fast he can get away with that.


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## noUser01 (May 27, 2013)

Store | Chris Broderick Official Blog

They are probably just out of stock. Wait a while and they'll have more... email them if you're unsure.

Honestly man I'd forget about it. Why not learn to shred with a pick and just settle for 7 finger tapping? Do you really need that extra finger? Think about other techniques too. Sure it'd be cool, but what about sweep picking without a pick? You can pretty much forget about trem picking or playing any sort of metal rhythm guitar in the same way as other people. Not just speed, but there's a specific sound to D DUD gallop patterns that comes from the way you use the pick. Pick slides? There go your finger nails.

I recently got into slap techniques (both traditional and double-stroke) and realized I needed to find a way to get rid of my pick but have it easily accessible. For me that meant holding it in my index finger and sacrificing it for hybrid picked notes. It's a pain in some ways, but it's much easier than going "Here's a slap part... *tosses pick away*"

I'm all for being unique and doing your own thing, but I would see this as a waste of time. But hey, that's just me, and it's not about me. If this is what you want to do then do it, it's that simple. Just make sure you think about the pros and cons of doing this before you spend hours and possibly years of your life relearning your right hand technique.


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## Sonic Anomaly (May 27, 2013)

simply slide your pick up (with your thumb) the side of your index finger to your knuckle. then slide it back down when you need the pick. the only downside to this is that you can't use your thumb as a anchor, but you can still get by if your changing from 8fngrtapping to picking a lot.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 27, 2013)

You can get insane speed without a pick, just look at some of the gypsy jazz, bop, flamenco, and classical players out there. They can SHRED like nobodies business and you won't catch most even looking at picks. 

Now, as for tone, your fingers aren't going to sound like a pick, so there may be some getting used to and dialing in of your rig.


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## Repner (May 27, 2013)

I would add banjo players to that as well, though they usually use thumb picks. They can get ridiculously fast.


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## ncfiala (May 27, 2013)

ConnorGilks said:


> Why not learn to shred with a pick and just settle for 7 finger tapping? Do you really need that extra finger?


 
This is another thing to consider. Honestly, how often does one really need all 8 fingers to tap? If you watch a lot of the videos on youtube where the guy says he is 8 finger tapping, he may be using all 8 fingers but the lick could easily be accomplished with fewer. I just watched a video yesterday where the guy said he was playing an 8 finger tapping lick, but if you watch the video the lick could easily (I would say more easily even) be played with only 3 fingers. It sometimes seems like people just want to say "8 finger tapping" and use all 8 fingers just to make their lick seem more complicated than it really is.

Personally, the only time I tap with all 8 fingers is when I'm doing single string chromatic stuff, and that is just for practice to develop finger independence and strength. Typically, I never need more than 4 or 5 fingers.


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## DrJazz (May 27, 2013)

If you are looking at bass players for some right hand technique, while wooten is pretty much the quintessential bassist, I'd take a look at matthew garrison, hadrien feraud and dominique di piazza.

Garrison and Feraud have a very tight right hand technique, the likes which will enable you to reach pretty high plucking speed. Their 4-finger technique, which is similar for both of them, is actually easier on guitar than bass IMHO, because the amplitude of your movements is extremely small. Comparatively, Billy Sheehan plucks much more aggressively, and his right hand technique is less suited to the small string spacing of the guitar.

Dominique Di Piazza has a very "guitar-esque" technique as well, but with a distinctive bass approach.


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## Repner (May 28, 2013)

thesnowdog said:


> When did MAB become "a guy"? Poor MAB...


When the guy in the video isn't MAB.


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## Sugbaable (May 28, 2013)

Well hmmmm, thanks guys. I have kind of given up already haha. I decided to go for a Chris Broderick style and I think I'll glue a pick to a glove and modify the glove as necessary.


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## ncfiala (May 28, 2013)

Sugbaable said:


> Well hmmmm, thanks guys. I have kind of given up already haha. I decided to go for a Chris Broderick style and I think I'll glue a pick to a glove and modify the glove as necessary.


 
Just size a zip-tie to your thumb and krazy glue it to a pick. It works ok.


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## thesnowdog (May 28, 2013)

Repner said:


> When the guy in the video isn't MAB.



Reading the title properly and perhaps even watching the video might have been the least I could have done.


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## AliceLG (May 29, 2013)

Have you considered flamenco-style tremolo picking? It isn't extremely complicated and you can get really fast with "less" effort. Check "Callejon de la Luna" by Vicente Amigo when you get a chance, about 3 minutes in he goes all out.



EDIT: can't link YouTube at work, it's blocked


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## Given To Fly (May 29, 2013)

Matt was my graduate TA when I was an undergraduate getting my degree in guitar performance. He plays everything using a - m - i in the right hand. I watched him max out the metronome! 

MATT PALMER


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## Malkav (May 29, 2013)

Hahaha was gonna come in here and mention Matt Palmer - Just stupid fast and amazingly clean 

Also have you considered learning to use a thumb pick like a plectrum?



^ Good example right there, also this dude is a freak when it comes to 8 finger tapping


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## Osorio (May 29, 2013)

Malkav said:


> ^ Good example right there, also this dude is a freak when it comes to 8 finger tapping



I'm not saying it IS sped up, but it definitely looks and somewhat sounds like it. His movements are so ridiculously precise... Mad legato skills as well. Majors props.


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## stuglue (May 29, 2013)

Thanks for posting that video of that guy shredding using his fingers, you've just inspired me to make my own quasi pick/finger hybrid version.
I'm playing three note per string scales but with the picking hand I'm playing a downstroke with the pick then the other two notes I'm using the ring finger then the middle finger to play the remaining two notes. I think its got potential.


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## Sugbaable (May 29, 2013)

I considered a thumb pick but Chris Broderick said he had some struggles with finessing it. Also, I don't know about pinch harmonics with a thumb pick. I think I'll try the zip tie or maybe the glove. The glove would be nice for cold nights haha. Still I could use non-thumb finger picking, and try to speed with that


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