# The Cut Begins: 7/18



## Uncreative123 (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll be starting a cutting diet as of 7/18 which will consist of four different phases. Making a public thread on a public forum for all to see is the only way I can be held accountable for actually following through with this. Now that I've quit my band I can actually follow through with this and not be side-swiped. The layout of this is mostly for the DIET aspect- not the lifting. My lifting regiment will remain mostly unchanged which is why I didn't lay any of it out here.

I've never had a problem gaining or losing weight so I'm not adhering to any specific "diet plan"- therein could be the only potential problem. I know what I need to do and I know what I can eat. Anything else only adds complication and ultimately makes the whole thing unravel. However, that being said, I will loosely be following this IDEA of IF (Intermittent Fasting: The Leangains Guide | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health)
It is my best chance because it was designed around people like me who just aren't ever hungry in the morning. I've been liberally trying it for the last couple days (sort of a cheat-start) and I think it will do the trick. 

The biggest problem for me is the mental factor- not of cracking and having a cheat meal or some such, but the physical depression of losing strength. It is the hardest part for me to cope with and the one reason I've been delaying this cut which has been a long time coming. So I've basically designed my own plan to help minimize muscle loss while going through this. I break it down like this:

*Phase 1: Motivation







*The biggest aspect of this phase will consist of diet change. The other part will be minimal cardio. I had been eating like shit lately and thus feeling like shit. Not even wanting to hit the gym and taking more days off from the gym than usual. That's done. My diet will consist of (but not limited to): 
*Chicken
*Egg Whites
*Whole wheat toast (w/ natty PB)- sparingly 
*"Salad"/lettuce
*Lean red meats
*Minimal fruit (too much sugar and carbs)
*Cottage Cheese
*Skim Milk
*Various Whey proteins and other supps (Fish oil, vit. C, vit E,)
*Naked Green Machine (This will be my main source of vegetables until my diet kicks in to the point where I'm hungry enough that I will actually eat vegetables)
That's about it honestly. Of course there will be variations on some of them like the chicken- but pretty limited otherwise. As you can see, not a lot of carbs. I looooooove me some carbs so this part will be rough. I plan to have one to two "high carb" days a week- hopefully they will coincide with my heavier lifting days at the gym. I'm also hooked on caffeine and have a bad Rockstar/Monster habit and refuse to drink the low-carb ass flavored ones. I *might* substitute them for N.O. Xplode- but the thing is I really don't crave caffeine before the gym anymore. I use to HAVE to have one before the gym, but now it's just usually in the morning...so I have no exactly resolved this issue yet.

*Phase two: Supp. It Up*






This is where it's time to kick it up a notch. After I feel that I've cut a decent amount of fat- I will be looking for accelerated fat-loss. This will be about 6-8 weeks in. (I say that now, but I have no patience) The only reason I am hesitant when it comes to using fat-burners is because while they do work, they also contribute to muscle loss (though probably not as much as changing my diet alone). Hot*Rox by Biotest has worked for me in the past as well as BSN's Atro-phex. I am hesitant to try any others because I am very highly sensitive to some ingredients in some fat-burners/thermogenics. For example, I can't take BSN's Thermonex. The last time I did, it worked great! I lost 5 lbs in only a day! The only problem was that it was due to vomiting and peeing out my ass. I haven't nailed down what ingredient causes this for me, but it's not limited only to that specific product. I think part of it may be ginseng and one or two other things. A friend is trying to convince me to use Animal Cut. We'll see.
I will also be upping the cardio during this phase. Only doing bicycle, eliptical, and walking at an incline. This phase will only last for about 6 weeks followed by 2-4 weeks off (off dietary supps that is)

*Phase three: Serious Business*






This is arguably the most important phase and will yield the best results. 
I have no choice but to be vague here because of lack of education and a never-ending onslaught of propaganda. This also happens to be the time at which I will start growing my viking goatee out into a viking beard (which could also be harder than everything else combined). This is where whatever strength gains were lost will be re-attained and this is the only way the whole thing will not be for nothing. Anyone can lose weight and get "shredded" but it's a lot harder to have mass on that frame. Real "supps" this time. Diet, cardio, and workout will all be immaculate. I've done it before and I will do it again. This will last approximately 8-10 weeks followed by 2 weeks off and a 4 week recovery period. Then the important part...phase four.

*Phase four: MAINTENANCE*






It's true. It's all for nothing if I can't keep a decent diet going and just let it all fall to shit. It's all on me. 


I don't have specific dates plotted for each phase because I don't believe in doing so. While that could be viewed as problematic- Anything could happen to cause one of them to be pushed back or forward and then aiming for a specific date was in vain. I do have rough goal dates such as P2 staring by at least the end of August and P3 starting around mid-September. 

I've been saving my stats for the end here because they're going to have to be updated after the weekend. Since moving I haven't been able to weigh myself. My gym has a scale but I haven't used it yet because I have a good idea of where I'm sitting. Prior to moving I was around 232. Right about now I'm estimating my weight at 225-227. 
Height: 6'2"
Bodyfat: 22% (estimate) Yeah it's bad.

The lowest body-fat I've ever been at was around 12%. I'm hoping to SMASH that and my goal bf% is 8%. It's realistic. I don't think I can ever have a diet or lifestyle that will allow me to be at or below 5-6%. If I hit single digits, I'll be stoked. I have taken my "before pics" but at this point am too embarrassed to show them until I have the AFTER pics or at least some part-way progress pics. So buckle up, 'cause Monday's horoscope: *FUCK YEAH*.


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## Harry (Jul 19, 2011)

Come on guys, show him support!


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 19, 2011)

As someone who's also currently trying to blast off some body fat I have to wish you all the Stoicism, determination and Good Luck in the World!

I have no idea what I'm currently sat at (can see veins in the abs but not ALL of them!) however if I too can hit single digits (and again, my biggest problem is diet) then I'll raise a glass of skimmed milk to our success


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 19, 2011)

Great post, and best of luck to ya! 

As someone who is a total fat ass (I weigh less than you, but my BF% is higher), I think I'm going to have to take a page out of your book and aim for better health (and you know, actually do something about it).


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 21, 2011)

lol, thanks dudes. 

Stats were exactly what I estimated: 226lbs @ 22% bf. Shows how well I know my body.

First full day down and I'm feeling good. Meals so far have just been this chicken stir-fry confection of mine (grilled chicken cut up in small pieces, cooked on a pan with some green peppers and onions and a little soy sauce...but I don't eat the veggies, lolz) cottage cheese, pb toast, egg white omelets w/ a little Parmesan cheese. "Italian Chicken" aka chicken thrown in a pan w/ some Garlic Salt and Mrs. Dash Italian spice dumped on it. 
Plus I've cut back my Whey protein to only after workouts. I'm gonna try it for a little while just to see how it goes. Don't like running protein that low though. We'll see how my body responds.

Calories running around 2k- which is about 800-1k lower than normal. So I'll definitely be seeing results during the first week. 

Actually making good progress on the beard too. Started that a little sooner than anticipated.


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## Harry (Jul 21, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, thanks dudes.
> 
> Stats were exactly what I estimated: 226lbs @ 22% bf. Shows how well I know my body.
> 
> ...



800-1000 calories below what exactly? Your maintenance or bulking calories?


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## mhenson42 (Jul 21, 2011)

too long. didn't read. liked the Titanic pic though. Nonetheless... good luck to you.


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## Dwellingers (Jul 21, 2011)

A bit of motivation could be added with some before/under/after shots. This will give you a visual insight of how you looked when you began your cut. 
- Torso-shots
- Side-shots
- leg-shots

my two cents.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 21, 2011)

Harry said:


> 800-1000 calories below what exactly? Your maintenance or bulking calories?


 

1k below maintenance. 



mhenson42 said:


> too long. didn't read. liked the Titanic pic though. Nonetheless... good luck to you.




Yet you cared enough to post that. Cool story bro.



Dwellingers said:


> A bit of motivation could be added with some before/under/after shots. This will give you a visual insight of how you looked when you began your cut.
> - Torso-shots
> - Side-shots
> - leg-shots
> ...



I already said I have before pics and I'll take after pics...when it's after. And I'll post both of them at that point. I have more than enough motivation right now. A picture of myself isn't going to be motivating...pics of Arnold, Jay, Ronnie, Dennis Wolf, and others are motivating.


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## Dwellingers (Jul 22, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> 1k below maintenance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome - looking forward to a heads-up. Remember to shred som wood also


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## jon66 (Jul 22, 2011)

This site rocks. Everything from 8string guitars to bodybuilding. Lol

As someone in a similar boat (currently trying to trim down some bodyfat over the next 12 weeks or so while preserving as much lean body mass n strength as possible) its encouraging to see other members (erg brethren) taking the same road as I.

Wishing u all the best man, can't wait to read up on your progress.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 26, 2011)

jon66 said:


> This site rocks. Everything from 8string guitars to bodybuilding. Lol
> 
> As someone in a similar boat (currently trying to trim down some bodyfat over the next 12 weeks or so while preserving as much lean body mass n strength as possible) its encouraging to see other members (erg brethren) taking the same road as I.
> 
> Wishing u all the best man, can't wait to read up on your progress.




Thanks dude, it's posts like this that make it easier to get through it. I'm already down 2-2.5% bf which seems unreal for less than two weeks. I know it won't be that easy in the coming weeks and months, but it's a great start. I don't know what's different this time around, but I was actually enjoying the hunger pains this morning (Yeah, it's fucked up, I know). It's like being able to feel the progress as well as see it. In conjunction with doing IF, I'm also loosely carb-cycling. Today I had almost no carbs- which made my leg day that much more brutal. So tomorrow night I am definitely having my cheat meal for the week and carbing up. Then I'll be back to moderate/low carbs for the next few days.

Feels good man.


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## avenger (Aug 4, 2011)

FUCKING CRUSH IT MAN, when you have a shit day kill the next one twice and feel like GOD!


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## jymellis (Aug 4, 2011)

i have a buddy at work. im gonna have him send me some before and after shots to post up here. my dude is 5 foot 8 and used to weight 320 pounds of fat. he has lost 89 pounds of fat in the last 2 years. BUT he is around 240 pounds of muscle now! i mean this dude is huge! well 5 foot 8 and 240 lol. i know you can do it man.sounds like your already off on the right foot! lookin forward to seeing somne progress pics maing.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm down 8 lbs, but still only 2% bf in 2 1/2 weeks. That's a little frustrating because it means either my scale isn't accurate or I'm losing the wrong kind of weight. You can easily see a physical difference by now- I looked at the 'before pics' the other day and couldn't believe how big I was only two weeks ago. 
I'm strictly adhering to IF at this point so I can conserve as much muscle mass as possible while losing fat. It's an awesome program. The basics of which are- fasting for 16 hours then feeding for 8 hours. You have to figure out what your maintenance calories are, then on non-training days you eat 20% under maintenance and on training days you eat 20% over maintenance. (Which for me is suppose to be like 2400 and 3600 respectively) So in that sense it's not a 'restrictive diet' at all. 
Your first meal when breaking the fast is around 20% of your daily total cal. and then the big meal comes after training- 50-60% and then one last small meal again around 20% before bed. 

There's a lot more information on the site: The Leangains Guide | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health


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## Dwellingers (Aug 10, 2011)

read alot about IF - Mayby ill get into it if i have a job schedule that "allows" it.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm going to do some progress pics at the one month mark (8/18) - 10 days from now. It's been a fairly drastic change for less than a month. Because of the IF I've stopped losing weight (replacing fat w/muscle). I started to get concerned that it wasn't working. I could physically SEE the results, but my scale said bf% was going up and weight wasn't shifting. I think the scale is totally fucked.

My strength was actually UP in the gym yesterday considering I've LOST weight AND hadn't eaten (fasted training). Normally, that would have been a disaster. 

I did have my first real dietary fuck-up last night. I waited too long to eat after the gym and it got to the point where I HAD to go out and get food fast or I would've thrown up/felt extremely shitty. Ended up at MuckDonalds. And no, I didn't eat anything off their 'healthier' menu.


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## Dwellingers (Aug 11, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> I'm going to do some progress pics at the one month mark (8/18) - 10 days from now. It's been a fairly drastic change for less than a month. Because of the IF I've stopped losing weight (replacing fat w/muscle). I started to get concerned that it wasn't working. I could physically SEE the results, but my scale said bf% was going up and weight wasn't shifting. I think the scale is totally fucked.
> 
> My strength was actually UP in the gym yesterday considering I've LOST weight AND hadn't eaten (fasted training). Normally, that would have been a disaster.
> 
> I did have my first real dietary fuck-up last night. I waited too long to eat after the gym and it got to the point where I HAD to go out and get food fast or I would've thrown up/felt extremely shitty. Ended up at MuckDonalds. And no, I didn't eat anything off their 'healthier' menu.



Will you share some of your lifting stats with us also?


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 12, 2011)

Dwellingers said:


> Will you share some of your lifting stats with us also?




lol, my lifting stats are pretty sad right now. I have a shoulder injury that I'm still slowly trying to recover from- so it prevents me from doing: flat bench, dips, squats, and dead-lifts. That being said, I still decline bench (pain free) and I do dead-lifts (but probably shouldn't be). I also have a knee issue which makes DL's problematic and makes even Leg Press an issue. 

That being said:

D.Bench is around 285-290 lbs
Dead-lift 385 lbs
Legpress 800lbs x 10, but that doesn't really mean anything. I sometimes do box squats, last time was around 335 I think, but again, it's kinda too much for my shoulder.


Prior to my shoulder issue, I was benching 365, Squatting 365 (lol), and DL'ing 475. I have vids of all of it too. Depressing to watch now, lol. Hoping to see a physiotherapist in the near future to have it properly diagnosed so I can have a clearly outlined recovery program.


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## Dwellingers (Aug 18, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, my lifting stats are pretty sad right now. I have a shoulder injury that I'm still slowly trying to recover from- so it prevents me from doing: flat bench, dips, squats, and dead-lifts. That being said, I still decline bench (pain free) and I do dead-lifts (but probably shouldn't be). I also have a knee issue which makes DL's problematic and makes even Leg Press an issue.
> 
> That being said:
> 
> ...



Watch it in another light man. Your know you could lift and press higher, so it shouldn´t be hard to convince yourself that those stats are achievable when the shoulder is back in rotation, so to speak.

I merely DL: 308 lbs, BP: 242 and squat 242 at a bw of 173.8. I got some stats to work  (cracks knuckles .... )


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 22, 2011)

Well here's the first "real" update. 

It's been a month and things are going very well. IF is king- there is no doubt about it. In fact, IF works so well that I actually got pretty lax with my diet (too lax) and slowed my own progress down. I mean, I've eaten pizza probably 5 times, MuckDonalds (once), and Arby's two or three times and I'm still dropping fat. The diet needs to get back on track so I can really take things up a notch. I haven't been doing ANY cardio which I think was playing a bigger role than anything in lack of fat loss. (Yes the diet wasn't spot on, but I'm averaging eating TWO meals out per WEEK- and only once has the food been absolutely deplorable) 

My weight loss has all but stopped, which is GOOD, because I'm losing fat and retaining muscle- in fact, even gaining muscle. Some of my lifts are starting to go UP which is insane. Any time I've taken fat burners and tried to cut my lifts always plummet. This is why IF is king.


Yes I did take 1 month progress pics, and yes there is a noticeable difference, however I don't want to post them yet and I'm thinking I won't post them until I have another round of progress pics or maybe not until the end. Not sure yet.

Kind of horrifying seeing some of the "tips" and "bro-knowledge" going on in these other threads. Hopefully most people are smart enough to spot those posts for what they really are.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 22, 2011)

^ Good job so far, man!

I've started IF as per Martin Berkhan's site as well for the past 2 weeks and I've dropped 20 lbs since my last post in this thread (roughly when I started dieting and lifting). I've also put on some muscle and strength has increased by a lot since starting. Given a lot of that weight was water, and I'm only gaining muscle and strength so quickly because I'm more or less 100% beginner to lifting weights and literally haven't done much of any physical activity in several years, but it's still really motivating to see such quick improvement 

To give an idea, I started at 210 with what I'm estimating would be something like 28-30% BF considering I was at 25% when measured in high school and haven't done physical activity and gained like 25 lbs since. Down to 190 now, and all I've done is make a 1k calorie deficit and lift 3-4x a week 

One thing I noticed with IF is that it's extremely difficult for me to put down the amount of whole food necessary, especially the protein, within the 8 hour window. I figure I'll get used to consuming that much eventually, if not then I'll have to figure out some more calorie dense foods to work into my diet, especially 4-5 months from now when it's (hopefully) time to start bulking. Best thing about IF though is that I used to eat like this back in high school anyway, so it's extremely natural for me to eat this way and I feel way less hungry than the typical "eat 5-6 meals a day" method.

Really eye opening to see the amount of crap I was stuffing down my throat before this in comparison to the relatively clean foods I'm eating now. 

And I hear you on the bro science shit. My brother started dieting as well (he's at 340 lbs  ) and I hear it from him day in and day out that I should be doing cardio instead of lifting and that if I don't sweat then I'm not burning calories (  ) and other nonsensical shit. Amazing what a little bit of research will teach you (but according to him all that science and research doesn't apply to real life results  ).

----

Now with all that out of the way, I owe a big thanks to you dude, if I hadn't seen this thread I'd probably still be a fat ass (well, fatter fat ass) and I wouldn't have even heard of lean gains. The most important thing in me keeping up with the diet for this long is that I can actually stick to this method with relative ease in comparison to other ones.

Anyway, I'm done ranting and hijacking your thread. It's your progress thread, not mine


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 22, 2011)

Sounds as though everyone is winning! Good job folks 

Clearly something I should look into myself although right now I just need to start adding muscle - the body fat is around 10% at a guess so time to see if at age 40 I have any more success than when I was 20 - Hard Gainer!


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## BrianUV777BK (Aug 22, 2011)

And it is because I read this thread the other day that I got motivated and started running. Nobody wants to watch a fat ass guitar player on stage.

Thanks!


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## Mindcrime1204 (Aug 22, 2011)

BrianUV777BK said:


> And it is because I read this thread the other day that I got motivated and started running. Nobody wants to watch a fat ass guitar player on stage.
> 
> Thanks!


 

Symphony X always puts on a GREAT show!!!


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 22, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> ^ Good job so far, man!
> 
> I've started IF as per Martin Berkhan's site as well for the past 2 weeks and I've dropped 20 lbs since my last post in this thread (roughly when I started dieting and lifting). I've also put on some muscle and strength has increased by a lot since starting. Given a lot of that weight was water, and I'm only gaining muscle and strength so quickly because I'm more or less 100% beginner to lifting weights and literally haven't done much of any physical activity in several years, but it's still really motivating to see such quick improvement
> 
> ...



That's awesome dude and I totally hear you about not eating enough in the 8 hr. time frame. I think with the exception of the days where I was eating out I'm almost always at a caloric deficit. My first meal is suppose to be around 6-700 cal (it's usually less though) and then my 'big meal' is around 2,000- which is just too much at once if it's 'healthy' food. I think my maintenance calories are too high because I'm incredibly inactive during the day so those formulas usually overestimate what I need. I mean aside from going to the gym I'm really just on my ass all day doing nothing. I'm trying to find more and more reasons to go out though. I've been walking around the neighborhood recently for maybe 20 minutes just to sort of ...MOVE. 



BrianUV777BK said:


> And it is because I read this thread the other day that I got motivated and started running. Nobody wants to watch a fat ass guitar player on stage.
> 
> Thanks!



lol, awesome. I looked at some old pictures of myself and that got me motivated. I just don't know what happened between Dec' 10 and May '11 to make me so huge. I thought I was fat back then, good lord...


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 22, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> That's awesome dude and I totally hear you about not eating enough in the 8 hr. time frame. I think with the exception of the days where I was eating out I'm almost always at a caloric deficit. My first meal is suppose to be around 6-700 cal (it's usually less though) and then my 'big meal' is around 2,000- which is just too much at once if it's 'healthy' food. I think my maintenance calories are too high because I'm incredibly inactive during the day so those formulas usually overestimate what I need. I mean aside from going to the gym I'm really just on my ass all day doing nothing. I'm trying to find more and more reasons to go out though. I've been walking around the neighborhood recently for maybe 20 minutes just to sort of ...MOVE.



Yeah, dude. I'm the same exact way. Other than lifting and occasionally walking the dog I pretty much sit in front of the computer and/or play guitar all the time. Extremely little activity.

And definitely agree on the big meal being too much food. My maintenance is roughly 2800 if I go by the 1.375 multiplier so I'm (trying to) eat 1800-2k per day (basically the equivalent of your entire post workout meal  ). That's still a shitload of food for me when eating healthy, and just like you I'm pretty sure I come in way under on most days. This is why I have no clue how in 4-5 months' time, if I try to pack on muscle, how I'm going to manage to put down 3k+ per day by eating this kind of food. 

Think I'm going to try making some of that protein pudding and fluff and see if they make it easier


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## Dwellingers (Aug 23, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Yeah, dude. I'm the same exact way. Other than lifting and occasionally walking the dog I pretty much sit in front of the computer and/or play guitar all the time. Extremely little activity.
> 
> And definitely agree on the big meal being too much food. My maintenance is roughly 2800 if I go by the 1.375 multiplier so I'm (trying to) eat 1800-2k per day (basically the equivalent of your entire post workout meal  ). That's still a shitload of food for me when eating healthy, and just like you I'm pretty sure I come in way under on most days. This is why I have no clue how in 4-5 months' time, if I try to pack on muscle, how I'm going to manage to put down 3k+ per day by eating this kind of food.
> 
> Think I'm going to try making some of that protein pudding and fluff and see if they make it easier



Seems you fellas need Weight-gainer to reach your daily calorie intake - or just some protein sources - whey perhaps? Though it sounds a little counter-intuitive! Nice seing some progress though


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 24, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Yeah, dude. I'm the same exact way. Other than lifting and occasionally walking the dog I pretty much sit in front of the computer and/or play guitar all the time. Extremely little activity.
> 
> And definitely agree on the big meal being too much food. My maintenance is roughly 2800 if I go by the 1.375 multiplier so I'm (trying to) eat 1800-2k per day (basically the equivalent of your entire post workout meal  ). That's still a shitload of food for me when eating healthy, and just like you I'm pretty sure I come in way under on most days. This is why I have no clue how in 4-5 months' time, if I try to pack on muscle, how I'm going to manage to put down 3k+ per day by eating this kind of food.
> 
> Think I'm going to try making some of that protein pudding and fluff and see if they make it easier




Even with protein supps I'm having trouble hitting what I should be. I'm currently taking the most awful tasting protein ever- ON's Hydrobuilder. It's absolutely disgusting. I've never had anything so bad. It really makes me want to vomit and gives me a headache before I even start drinking it. It basically makes my post-workout time miserable until I eat. I have to have a chaser with it at this point. It's mostly mental, but I will never get it again. I thought it would be a good choice because of all the BCAA's and glutamine in it, but it's just not worth it. I will go back to regular ON Whey (choc. mint) and Biotest's Surge (rootbeer/raspberry).


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 25, 2011)

My friend was telling me about ON's Hydro stuff yesterday, actually. Thanks for the heads up about it tasting terrible since neither of us have tried it. I'd rather take something slightly worse that tastes better rather than something I have to force down each time. I grabbed ON whey (vanilla ice cream) and going to try that Syntrax casein that's recommended on lean gains (should be here tomorrow so I'll update on how it is after I try it).


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## Harry (Aug 25, 2011)

Geezus man, why did you get Hydrobuilder?
I have a strong dislike for ON products in general. They mostly just make products with dated formulas that appeal to the 'bro' crowd that don't know any better. "Oh look, buy this specially made protein product, it absorbs more quickly.................DERP!".
You're in the US, so you definitely should take a good look at these brands and their protein products :

Thermolife Vasolate
TruNutrition Trutein
Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide 1.0
Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide 2.0
Gaspari Myofusion

While I can't personally speak for the first two, since they're not available in Australia, I can tell you that after having the Xtreme Formulations stuff, I could quickly see why it gets so much praise on forum boards across the internet.
While I'm not a fan of Gaspari products in general, Myofusion is definitely a great tasting protein powder from the tub I've bought, and again, it's widely known as a great tasting protein supp.
With those options available, there is simply no reason to be handing over any money to Optimum Nutrition anymore.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 25, 2011)

Harry said:


> Geezus man, why did you get Hydrobuilder?
> I have a strong dislike for ON products in general. They mostly just make products with dated formulas that appeal to the 'bro' crowd that don't know any better. "Oh look, buy this specially made protein product, it absorbs more quickly.................DERP!".
> You're in the US, so you definitely should take a good look at these brands and their protein products :
> 
> ...




ON is bro-tein (new word???) Anytime I've taken their standard whey, it's almost as if I'm taking nothing. Their casein protein is alright. This hydrobuilder is legit though. I really think it gets the job done and could be the best overall protein (because of all the crap in it) but there is no way I'll ever get it again. It's like drinking mud. It's exactly like drinking mud. Everyone dogs on Muscle Milk but I always get results. I think everyone just looks at the amount of fat and sugar and immediately writes it off. I know they got in trouble recently for some of their ingredients, but their 'new' formula is legit. I don't like gaspri at all. 
The biotest stuff is legit, the reason I hadn't been getting it was because of the price. It was soooooo damn expensive. 


Wicked- be careful of what's recommended on the lean gains site- I got the Scivation BCAA supp and it's just as bad as the hydrobuilder stuff. I honestly thought the lemon lime flavor I got was going to be delicious and boy was I ever wrong. Going forward I'll just stick with what I know and like.
Intek's BCAA supp is the best, hands down. Really hard to come buy though.
Afterglow is great for BCAA+Glutamine. Best tasting supp I've had to date. 

I was going to write more, but have to take off.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 25, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Wicked- be careful of what's recommended on the lean gains site- I got the Scivation BCAA supp and it's just as bad as the hydrobuilder stuff. I honestly thought the lemon lime flavor I got was going to be delicious and boy was I ever wrong. Going forward I'll just stick with what I know and like.
> Intek's BCAA supp is the best, hands down. Really hard to come buy though.
> Afterglow is great for BCAA+Glutamine. Best tasting supp I've had to date.



Thanks for the heads up (both you and Harry). This is my first time ever getting protein powders/supps in general so I don't have much else to go on other than recommendations I read around and friends' opinions. I already figured at the start of this that I'd most likely have to go through a few different brands to find what I liked best anyway, so I just have to hope for the best each time.


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## Harry (Aug 30, 2011)

Edit : Excuse the post above, can't seem to delete it for some reason




Uncreative123 said:


> ON is bro-tein (new word???) Anytime I've taken their standard whey, it's almost as if I'm taking nothing. Their casein protein is alright. This hydrobuilder is legit though. I really think it gets the job done and could be the best overall protein (because of all the crap in it) but there is no way I'll ever get it again. It's like drinking mud. It's exactly like drinking mud. Everyone dogs on Muscle Milk but I always get results. I think everyone just looks at the amount of fat and sugar and immediately writes it off. I know they got in trouble recently for some of their ingredients, but their 'new' formula is legit. I don't like gaspri at all.
> The biotest stuff is legit, the reason I hadn't been getting it was because of the price. It was soooooo damn expensive.
> 
> 
> ...




For the price you're paying for the Hydrobuilder, it's nothing short of a crime.
There's nothing in there that justifies the price, nor the absolutely horrendous taste you feel it has either.
The creatine can be had separately in bulk and as you know, you can buy BCAA sups anyway.
It's just a joke of a product really. ON tried to pimp it on the bodybuilding.com boards, and straight away the guys that are more knowledgeable when it comes to supps just came in and shot it down
The Xtreme Formulations stuff I mentioned, at least specifically the Ultra Peptide Original/1.0, would definitely be reasonably priced and would be a massive step up in both quality and taste compared to any of the ON stuff.
Protein is protein at the end of the day and it pays to get something that has a taste that makes you look forward to drinking, as well as being of great quality.

As for Scivation Xtend, I absolutely do not mind the taste once I mix it up with a bit of Gatorade powder.
That being said, Scivation just released a new version of Xtend that's been reformulated in the taste department, as well as having added electrolytes, so it's like having the electrolytes of Gatorade added in, but it's carb free so it wont interfere with fasting diets/people that need a strict carb intake.
Pretty much everyone that disliked the taste of the older Xtend like the new one.
Should perhaps give that a go too if you can. Xtend has been very legit for me as helping to decrease DOMS from my workouts.


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## WickedSymphony (Aug 31, 2011)

Gonna add that I tried the Syntrax Micellar Creme a few times now in frozen pudding form (1 scoop powder to 1.5 scoops milk, frozen for about an hour). The best way I can describe it is how my friend did, and that's by saying it tastes pretty much just like a Wendy's Frosty. So yea, it tastes pretty darn good for a protein powder, and I actually look forward to it as a pre-bedtime snack/dessert every night.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 31, 2011)

Harry said:


> Edit : Excuse the post above, can't seem to delete it for some reason
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol, man I didn't even remember writing that post when I went back and read it. The price for hydrobuilder isn't outrageously bad or anything. I didn't read any of the bro-reviews and I wouldn't ever take advice from anyone on bb.com for a variety of reasons. I'm not opposed to trying new things- if anything it usually reinforces the notion that whatever I was taking in the first place is much better. I just read some of the threads on bb.com about it and the majority of people bitching about it are people who haven't even tried it and couldn't even tell what it's main function/purpose is. There is so much shit in it and so much other shit hidden in their formulas that you can't simply look at the label and definitively say what's in it. But I don't see what's in it that is cause for commotion unless people were hyping this up to be some amazing new protein supp. It has a bunch of BCAA's, protein, and micronized creatine in it- so while it's not revolutionary by any means I certainly wouldn't classify it as a joke. I think too many people go overboard by saying ALL supplements ever are junk. A lot of them are but honestly there's more rhetoric out there than junk supplements. I've used stuff that's pure garbage before that other people swear by and vice versa- some people are affected differently or don't know how to listen to their body. It's hit and miss- always. There's really only one set of supplements that works 100% of the time, all the time. 

That being said, I still think Hydro-builder is "ok" for what it is (a protein supplement mass produced by a huge company) but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and I will never buy it again. I think the Xtend stuff is ok too, and I am interested in the new flavors, but honestly, now that I've been financially blessed, I'm going to stick with Intek's BCAA because I know it's legit and it's taaaaaaaaaaaaasssssty : BCAA EVOLUTION by INTEK

I'm going to get some Biotest Surge as well ($50 a bottle?????). It does an amazing job spiking insulin levels post-workout. Just definitely be sure to eat I'd say within 30-60 minutes. I've been close to passing out a couple times. 




In other news, I've been doing around 16-24 min of cardio post-workout about 4 times a week and it makes a bigger difference than anything else fat-loss wise. I'm staying at a constant 220 lbs, but my body keeps changing and strength is slowly going up. It's so weird to me because I've always thought fat-loss and muscle loss went hand-in-hand. 
Also because of getting more students, I should finally be able to afford health insurance on my own and I'm going to start going back to a chiropractor and set up an appointment with a physiotherapist to get my shoulder looked at. All good signs so far.


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## jon66 (Aug 31, 2011)

Congratz man, it's great to hear you're making progress and staying motivated!

Side note - I've got one of the new bottles of Xtend, and I must say, it mixes MUCH better and is a lot tastier than their old formula. As Harry said, I too feel it is a HUGE help in decreasing DOMS. A scoop or two of that also helps mixed in a gallon jug really helps me in making sure in getting the proper hydration per day. I find after a certain point, plain ol' water just doesn't wanna go down. lol


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 31, 2011)

Oddly enough, T-Nation did an article today on 'walking' for cardio- which is the majority of what I've what I've been doing for my cardio (though I was doing it at a steeper incline than they suggest). I'm probably going to stop doing the elliptical because my knees always bang the machine since my legs are so long. It's retarded. Stuck with biking and walking at an incline now. Anyway, here's the article:

T NATION | Get Ripped. Get Walking.


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## jaxadam (Sep 6, 2011)

The Hydrobuilder sucks. That stuff being described as mud is very accurate. I do like the Hydrowhey, however. I've never really had a problem with any of the ON 100% whey's, either.

XF Ultra Peptide 2.0 is some good stuff. The Intek BCAA's are my favorite to date (beat Scivation and XF ICE by a long shot). 

Afterglow is currently my favorite post workout. The Intek Post-Workout is almost identical, but a little cheaper.


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## Uncreative123 (Sep 7, 2011)

jaxadam said:


> The Hydrobuilder sucks. That stuff being described as mud is very accurate. I do like the Hydrowhey, however. I've never really had a problem with any of the ON 100% whey's, either.
> 
> XF Ultra Peptide 2.0 is some good stuff. The Intek BCAA's are my favorite to date (beat Scivation and XF ICE by a long shot).
> 
> Afterglow is currently my favorite post workout. The Intek Post-Workout is almost identical, but a little cheaper.




Nice dude. I'm getting ready to order some Intek BCAA's later this week- I haven't had their post-workout yet, but if I already believed it would be good and you say it is, then I'm sure it is. Do you just order yours off their site?


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## jaxadam (Sep 7, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> Nice dude. I'm getting ready to order some Intek BCAA's later this week- I haven't had their post-workout yet, but if I already believed it would be good and you say it is, then I'm sure it is. Do you just order yours off their site?



No, there's actually a store RIGHT up the road that carries pretty much Intek's whole line, Cellucor, and a lot of other stuff you typically don't find at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. 

The Intek Post is virtually identical to Afterglow, and tastes exactly the same. I was worried that it wouldn't have the inclusion of phosphatidylserine, but it does.

The Trutein stuff is pretty good as well. They're also really good about sending samples to "try before you buy". Here's a link.

Another Pre I've tried that seems to be getting a pretty good amount of steam behind it down here is Pure Karbolyn. It's not bad; I didn't really notice anything major, but I did power through my workout while upping weights and reps. It's supposed to be a branch on the technology from Vitargo.


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## Uncreative123 (Sep 22, 2011)

Alright, I'm going to be starting 'phase 3' of this thing in the next week or so. Currently sitting around 17% bf want to try to get it a little lower before I start this next part. Still doing IF- but I've noticed that when I don't do it I can lose weight easier. IF usually causes me to eat like shit because by the time it's time to eat I'm so hungry I just want to eat shit. I'm down to about 217 now.

I picked up some Intek BCAA's and their Detox stuff today from Nutrishop. Got an insane discount. All my protein should be coming early next week too. I'll try to take a pic of everything once it's here and throw it up on here.


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## IB-studjent- (Sep 22, 2011)

you should try some of Nutrexs products, like muscle infusion. That stuff is great. Not talking out of preference but experience. Get some Glutamine, BCAA's and Creatine. Those are the big 3 of the supplement world. creatine is a great post workout supplement that can help with recovery. Try anabolic halo, that shit is great. And for Glutamine get MHP. That's all you need trust me.


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## Uncreative123 (Sep 23, 2011)

IB-studjent- said:


> you should try some of Nutrexs products, like muscle infusion. That stuff is great. Not talking out of preference but experience. Get some Glutamine, BCAA's and Creatine. Those are the big 3 of the supplement world. creatine is a great post workout supplement that can help with recovery. Try anabolic halo, that shit is great. And for Glutamine get MHP. That's all you need trust me.




Uh? Just know that I'm not saying any of this to be rude, but did you read any of this thread? This isn't my first rodeo, lol. I've been using creatine (among other supps) on and off for seven years. In my last post I just said that I picked up some BCAA's- from a legitimate company (so not sure why you told me to get some); Whereas both Muscletech and MHP are kind of a joke. I mean, that's kinda why everyone makes fun of cell-tech. Ref. "Dat dere cell-tech". The stuff is more or less garbage loaded with sugar.

Most supplements are a waste of money- and they're a lot of money on top of it. It's hard to trust any of these companies when they're constantly caught severely under-dosing the ingredients or putting in really bad ingredients into their formulas. It's like for all that trouble and money you might as well take something you_ know_ will work. Which is what I'm doing, again, for the fourth time. I will refer you to 'phase three' of the original post regarding this.

I really don't need any help getting bigger. Not looking for advice, just keeping this as a log. I just need to slim down and add a little mass. These are from 2 1/2 years ago @ around 235lbs, bf% was actually around 15-16% I was just holding a ton of water:













And this was from March I believe; Again around 235, but a little leaner:


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## jaxadam (Sep 25, 2011)

Muscletech and MHP shit sucks. I've never really cared for their products. 

Uncreative123... It looks like you are off to a good start. Keep up the good work, and keep blogging. I've looked into IF, and have heard good things, but haven't done it.


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## Uncreative123 (Sep 26, 2011)

The Intek Detox stuff that I started taking a few days ago is INSANE. 
https://www.inteknutrition.com/PRODUCTS/DETOX/detox.html

I wasn't really getting it as a fat-loss supplement, just thought it would be a good idea to 'clean out my system' and because I got a great deal on it. It's been only four days and I'm only taking half the recommended dose (just before bed). I did try it one day when I woke up (like it said to do for best results + at night) and I couldn't stop shitting. In fact that's still going on, but I fee like I have more control over it now. I just don't understand how there's anything left inside me, but apparently there is. The best thing about it is that I never get headaches/dehydration headaches or feel like shit from it. I've never had that with a weight loss supp (though this isn't really marketed as a weight-loss supp) This description nails it perfectly. The stuff works amazingly and I can see a drastic change in only days- has definitely started slimming my mid-section, everything is starting to get tighter, and I don't feel bloated:

"_*If you are looking to supplement your daily health regime and drop pounds and inches while bettering your body, the evolution of detoxification is here. The harsh reality is that over time our bodies build up toxins, waste, plaque and mucus in our gastro intestinal tracts that can have an array of side effects and leave you struggling for optimum health. Quite frankly, with the abundance of preserved and frozen foods, diets full of sodium, sugars, fast foods, and lacking ample amounts of roughage and fiber regularly, EVERYONE NEEDS TO DETOX. With the average individual walking around with 4-20 pounds of toxic, fecal plaque buildup in the intestinal and digestive tract, not to mention harmful chemicals and pollutants from our food that can be harmful to us as well, the body cannot function at its best, and you are left with bloating, a hindered metabolism, a protruding waistline, poor organ health, an inability to properly digest daily nutrition, a weaker immune system, a congested liver that is unable to filter properly, and the list goes on. For a total organ and blood detoxification, purification, and gastro intestinal cleansing, Intek Detox Evolution will have your body back in better health and thanking you in no time."*_


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## jaxadam (Sep 26, 2011)

I have been more than impressed with everything I've tried in the Intek lineup.


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## Uncreative123 (Oct 23, 2011)

Still here. Needed to remind myself. In phase III. Currently sitting around 230 lbs.


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## jaxadam (Nov 7, 2011)

If anyone's wondering, don't bother with the new Scivation Xtend formulation. Tastes like complete and utter shit, and gave me cramps. I'm either taking it back tomorrow, or throwing it away. Or maybe sending it to someone for free if they like the taste of salt water. 

I'm not sure why they decided to add sodium to this, but it comes through like a motherfucker. I'll be going back to the Intek BCAA's. The older Scivation BCAA's used to be good before this new formulation.

This looks like one of the next proteins I'm going to try:

AllMax Nutrition IsoFlex at Bodybuilding.com: Lowest Prices for IsoFlex

Haven't heard too much about it, but it seems to have a pretty decent profile. I also like Species Isolyze, and this looks pretty similar.


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## Uncreative123 (Nov 9, 2011)

jaxadam said:


> If anyone's wondering, don't bother with the new Scivation Xtend formulation. Tastes like complete and utter shit, and gave me cramps. I'm either taking it back tomorrow, or throwing it away. Or maybe sending it to someone for free if they like the taste of salt water.
> 
> I'm not sure why they decided to add sodium to this, but it comes through like a motherfucker. I'll be going back to the Intek BCAA's. The older Scivation BCAA's used to be good before this new formulation.
> 
> ...



lol, not surprised to hear that. I just picked up 3 more bottles of Intek BCAA's yesterday. Not crazy about the Orange flavor. Thank God I only got one of those. 

Everything else is going great. Up to 235 lbs- and was benching 315x4 last week. Finally squatting/box squatting again too. Will do pics soon.


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## jaxadam (Nov 9, 2011)

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, not surprised to hear that. I just picked up 3 more bottles of Intek BCAA's yesterday. Not crazy about the Orange flavor. Thank God I only got one of those..



I used to like the old Scivation; this one sucks. I took it back.

I'm gonna go back to the Intek BCAA's. Did you ever try the Intek Post?



Uncreative123 said:


> Everything else is going great. Up to 235 lbs- and was benching 315x4 last week. Finally squatting/box squatting again too. Will do pics soon.



315. That's really fucking good, dude.

Box squats are really good. They can really help with form, but I don't think you need to be worried about that.

You're kicking ass, and you obviously know what you're doing. Best of luck to you in achieving your goals.


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