# Budget FRFR options?



## Jacksonluvr636 (Oct 4, 2016)

Window shopping because I'm planning to get an AX8.

Ideally I'd love a Matrix because it's light and good but being on a budget and for the time being what else is out there?

Would actually prefer to buy something used and keep the price super low like > $300 if possible.

I was recommended Alto but wanted to see if anything else was halfway decent for a budget.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 4, 2016)

My advice, don't buy used if you're going budget. 

I'm using a pair of Mackie Thump 12s with my Helix and they're more than sufficient at about $600 for the pair, easy to handle, easy to use. They're definitely not scientifically "FRFR" but they're close enough to get a solid idea of what I'm going to sound like.


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## A-Branger (Oct 5, 2016)

what about keyboard amps? any experience with those?. I know they arent "FRFR" specially for that price budget, but I assume they could get close? as the freq range of a piano/keys?, instead of buying some PA speaker in the same price range


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## Metropolis (Oct 23, 2016)

I just paired an Alto TS212 with Line6 Pod HD500X. Obviously it takes dialing your tones very well, and you get to hear what you want. One monitor sounds almost like a half stack 

They cost about 300 a piece when new. Definetly an option to look for, they probably are better than Mackie Thump series. 550 watts RMS and 1100 peak vs. what ever power consumption it was with Mackie's.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Oct 27, 2016)

Metropolis said:


> I just paired an Alto TS212 with Line6 Pod HD500X. Obviously it takes dialing your tones very well, and you get to hear what you want. One monitor sounds almost like a half stack
> 
> They cost about 300 a piece when new. Definetly an option to look for, they probably are better than Mackie Thump series. 550 watts RMS and 1100 peak vs. what ever power consumption it was with Mackie's.



Was looking at these and the EV ZLX12p.

I would love something really nice but they are just way too much money for me right now.

I have the AX8 so I need the FRFR more than ever. The AX8 sounds like total crap through my drummers PA. Like I need something now or I need to sell the AX8, that is how bad it is lol.


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## Metropolis (Oct 28, 2016)

One downside... it did drown in the band mix when rehearsing. Gotta test XLR outs too, if I could get more volume out of the speaker without clipping. Is running mic-level signal to PA more appropriate and correct way to connect a modeler to speaker systems like these, if anyone knows?

Otherwise I'm happy how Alto TS212 performs, but if it's not getting loud enough I got to go back to playing with tube amps 

E: I replaced cables and connections with XLR's and could get much more volume and cleaner signal overall, that's how it is done. And your AX8 is gonna cut better through and of course sound better than Pod HD.


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## Science_Penguin (Oct 29, 2016)

I just got a cheap EV (in fact, I think it was the ZLX12p) for my POD HD, but, I basically only use it at practse. Sounds decent enough for that, little bassy, but nothing too bad, especially since the speaker lets you adjust the EQ a bit. Also, it's MUCH lighter than the Mackie I had it running through before.

If you're doing what I do and just need the FRFR for practise and maybe as a monitor, it's a good one to pick. But, so far, everywhere we've been, I plug direct into the board and it winds up getting fed through their monitors; I don't even bring the thing out of the practise space unless the gig requires us to provide our own speakers... and the one time I've ever had to do that, I got no complaints.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Oct 29, 2016)

I own an Alto Ts115A. $220 used. Never a problem. Loud as all hell and it sounds soooooo good. Paired with a Pod.


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## Metropolis (Oct 30, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> I just got a cheap EV (in fact, I think it was the ZLX12p) for my POD HD, but, I basically only use it at practse. Sounds decent enough for that, little bassy, but nothing too bad, especially since the speaker lets you adjust the EQ a bit.



Global EQ in Pod HD series is very handy, I've set high pass filter to 130Hz for getting rid of all mud that Treadplate model is producing.


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## Science_Penguin (Oct 30, 2016)

Metropolis said:


> Global EQ in Pod HD series is very handy, I've set high pass filter to 130Hz for getting rid of all mud that Treadplate model is producing.



Ohhhh, that might be something worth experimenting with, cause that's the exact model I'm using.

Who knows, maybe that'll solve the extreme mud issue I have with the Marshall sim.


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## Metropolis (Oct 30, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> Ohhhh, that might be something worth experimenting with, cause that's the exact model I'm using.
> 
> Who knows, maybe that'll solve the extreme mud issue I have with the Marshall sim.



Also low pass at 9.5kHz to get off nasty and fizzy top end. with Treadplate I keep bass around 30% and there is parametric eq after the amp to fine adjustments.


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## vilk (Dec 7, 2016)

I play through an Ion Block Rocker purchased for 80 bucks because it was sent on to an overstock store for not having a microphone included. 

It's cool, because I sync my phone with it using a bluetooth, and then play along with songs I like. It also has a "50 hour" battery. If I could get a decent tone out of my Korg Pandora mini-modeler, I could play without electricity. It's my intention to use it this weekend to test a guitar for a trade out of the back of my car. 

I've never really cranked it, but it sounds perfectly great at apartment levels.

I wonder if I could play it with a drummer...

There is a dude on craigslist selling his Friedman for a really good price the other day. I didn't get it because I would probably not have any opportunity to be loud enough to justify the purchase. But theoretically, it's exactly what I want.


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## vilk (Jan 9, 2017)

vilk said:


> I play through an Ion Block Rocker purchased for 80 bucks because it was sent on to an overstock store for not having a microphone included.
> 
> It's cool, because I sync my phone with it using a bluetooth, and then play along with songs I like. It also has a "50 hour" battery. If I could get a decent tone out of my Korg Pandora mini-modeler, I could play without electricity. It's my intention to use it this weekend to test a guitar for a trade out of the back of my car.
> 
> ...



So the other day, I did try to crank it, and not gonna happen. I guess I should have pulled the trigger on that Friedman....


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## Drew (Jan 10, 2017)

Can the AX8 do separate speaker emulated and un-emulated outs? Because I have yet to play a FRFR seup that sounds as natural in the room as even a solid state poweramp and a halfway decent 2x12. A best of both worlds solution, IMO, is running anemulated out to the board and then monitoring yourself through a poweramp and cab.


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## vick1000 (Jan 19, 2017)

Drew said:


> Can the AX8 do separate speaker emulated and un-emulated outs? Because I have yet to play a FRFR seup that sounds as natural in the room as even a solid state poweramp and a halfway decent 2x12. A best of both worlds solution, IMO, is running anemulated out to the board and then monitoring yourself through a poweramp and cab.



Yeah, you just split the signal before the cab block, and add a FXloop block, then run a cable from the FXsend to your amp.

As far as FRFR and high SPL, I think you have to spend too much for those powered speakers to get enough headroom. Even SS amps color and break up when pushed, and not in a good way. Most Class D color and get harsh when they get hot too. Plus I think their listed power levels are probably BS on most of the cheaper ones.

The powered cabs are great for portablility though, and that's what they are intended to address. You would not want to tote around what I am building for my AX8 FRFR solution.

I have no such concerns, so I found a deal on a QSC GXD8 (LN $500), and two Yamaha A15s (N $380). The A15s are getting here today, so I will find out how bad they color or not. I am happy with my JBL LSR305s (N $99 each on sale) tonally, but I really like to crank my rig on occasion, they don't do that so well. Hopefully the A15 will be good enough, so I can keep things under $1K.

If the A15s suck, I'll probably get some Carvin LS1503s, the graph they post online is flat as hell for those. But that would put thing just over $1K.


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## vick1000 (Jan 19, 2017)

OK, got the A15s in, all hooked up. I can safely say they are almost as good as the JBLs, using the QSC's DSP to cut lows around 80hz and highs around 10Khz. And I don't think SPL will be a problem anymore, my neighbors are gonna' hate me. I still have some preset tweaking to do for higher SPL, but this setup works well for me. I would not want to have to tote it anywhere though, the A15s are heavy as hell, and big. The QSC in a 3u rack with a Furman id not too bad, these amps are very light for the output you are getting, and the DSP is fantastic.


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## Misfit74 (Jan 29, 2017)

Anyone have experience with Seismic Audio floor monitors as a FRFR solution? 

For example: http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/powered-12-inch-pro-audio-pa-dj-floor-monitor/p/FL-12MP-PW

http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/12-inch-coaxial-monitor-250-watts-rms-each/p/SAX-12M

I mainly want to know if the wattage ratings are acceptable (realistic)? Will I be able to hear well in a full band mix/rehearsal in front of a 4x12 or similarly loud Matrix FRFR 2x12? 

I want to monitor the 2nd guitar and he monitor me and these seem ideal.


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## LeviathanKiller (Feb 26, 2017)

I remember Seismic Audio from way back (like 7 years ago) and that name brings negative feelings to mind. Definitely wait for some experience stories from some forum members before purchasing those...

Found a link for you, sounds like what I thought I had heard before
http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/LivePerformanceCategory/acapella-33/366323-


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## trebal (Mar 6, 2017)

Quality and price relation, the Yamaha DBR12 or DXR12 are better options.


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## vilk (Mar 6, 2017)

I've been looking at these

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...=b&network=g&gclid=CLDugYLqwtICFYy2wAodD5sFiw

and

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...y-powered-speaker?rNtt=alto truesonic&index=2

I know they keep them both at guitar center. It's my intention to go up there with my Amplifire one of these days and pit them against each other.


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