# Best High Gain tubes



## sarge (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi,

I am failry new to tube amps.

I have read throught the sticky on tube amps (which was extremely helpfull).

What would you guys recommend as the best tubes for High Gain.

When I say high gain I'm talking about modern metal sound.

Thanks


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## Jerich (Dec 31, 2007)

man this will open a huge can of worms....


There is a difference between BEST and best to use?
Electroharmonix are the most stable and reliable
Tung sols are HIGH GAIN
Sovtek sound good at first then die out
Ruby sound glassy and trebly
Groove tubes have an Incredible warrenty
JJ basically every tube is based on.

I am only talking of Pre amp tubes here once you get into Power amp tubes it is a whole different conversation.

In most amps New modern ones
V1= Tung sol reissues
the other V's=electroharmonix 12ax7eh

electroharmonix el34's
Tung sol 6l6's
Gold Lion KT77 & 88


This a huge debate I know...........


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## JJ Rodriguez (Dec 31, 2007)

Going into what amp will probably be the first question the tube gurus will ask.


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## Ishan (Dec 31, 2007)

Tell us what amp you have, it'll be easier to help you.
My own favorite: V1-> cryo-treated Harma 7025 (ultra high gain 12AX7), other V-> cryo-treated NOS Philips 12AX7A (all from Watford Valves)


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## Jerich (Dec 31, 2007)

Jerich said:


> man this will open a huge can of worms....
> 
> 
> There is a difference between BEST and best to use?
> ...



It might help by stating what amplifier too!!!


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## 7StringofAblicK (Dec 31, 2007)

Gain will be primarily dependent on the amps design and structure. I wouldn't look for 'more' gain from a tube - if anything you want a tube that may be less gain-y because it will add more clarity.

With that said, not to sound like a broken record, but what amp are you using. A recto, 5150, Engl, etc all have enough gain on tap. Finding musical and clear tubes will benenfit you - not necessarily ones geared towards more gain. 

THe tung sol in the V1 seems to be a favorite; however, i'm partial to JJs and I've been using them for a few years now. Bob at Eurotubes is extremely helpful when it comes to changing tubes and figuring out what will suit you best. 

Preamp tubes will affect the overall EQ response a bit more, so getting good preamp tubes will affect your gain (as well as add to the variability of your eq knobs: mids, highs, lows, etc). Good poweramp tubes will help your post eq (bass, headroom, tightness, etc), so think of these variables when you decide on your tubes.

Good luck!


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## sarge (Dec 31, 2007)

Sorry,

I am picking up a Marshall JCM 602 on Saturday.

I understand it is probably not considered a high gain amp.

Most likely I will have to use a pedal.

I am just trying to get the most gain out of the amp I can, if that makes any sense.

thanks


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## Drew (Dec 31, 2007)

JCM602... Not familiar. Is this one of the JCM 2000 series, the 60 watt TSL, basically? 

You're probably not going to get night-and-day different gain response out of tubes... I've used high-gain JJ's in the past, both in a TSL that came to me with them, and in a Nomad I swapped them in. The TSL was certainly a little more gainy than a stock one, and the Nomad seemed to increase in gain my maybe 10-20% - nothing earth shattering, but noticeable. 

More importantly, though, the useable range of the gain knob improved - I found that while I could get more gain out of it, it also sounded noticeably better at lower gain ranges. It seemed to respond more evenly and more musically. 

That said... if it's NOT a JCM2000 series, then I'd say if you want to get more gain from the amp, your best bet is to grab a THS Hot Plate so you can really push the power amp. Marshalls are really power amp distortion amps - they do have cascading gain stages, but they're really designed to be run hard and have the power amp supply most of the compression. That'll get you closer to the sound of a hot Marshall than a simple tube swap, IMO.


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## sarge (Dec 31, 2007)

Drew said:


> JCM602... Not familiar. Is this one of the JCM 2000 series, the 60 watt TSL, basically?
> 
> You're probably not going to get night-and-day different gain response out of tubes... I've used high-gain JJ's in the past, both in a TSL that came to me with them, and in a Nomad I swapped them in. The TSL was certainly a little more gainy than a stock one, and the Nomad seemed to increase in gain my maybe 10-20% - nothing earth shattering, but noticeable.
> 
> ...



It's not a JCM 2000.

It's a combo version of the JCM 600 with 2 12' speakers.

From what I am hearing I think I may just have no choice but to go with a pedal, or the hotplate, but at 300 that is a little expensive for me right now.

I tried a pretty cool pedal out the other day, (atleast I thought it sounded good).

It was the latest version Ibanez Tube King. From what the clerks in the store where telling me, previous versions of this pedal didn't have near the overdrive. It contains a 12AX7 tube.

I gues I figured the preamp tube would have a significant role in the amount of total gain (remember, tube newbie).


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## ridealot100 (Dec 31, 2007)

Well when I bought my peavey valvking it really lacked to I bought some 
ElectroHarmonix 6l6 power tubes.

and some Mesa 12ax7s 

and WOW

it really woke my amp up. I went from cranking the gain to putting it half way. haha


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## Leon (Dec 31, 2007)

7StringofAblicK said:


> Gain will be primarily dependent on the amps design and structure. I wouldn't look for 'more' gain from a tube - if anything you want a tube that may be less gain-y because it will add more clarity.





higher quality tubes will make your amp sound BETTER, but not like a different amp. my advice, if you're simply looking for a different sound, save your money, and get the amp you want.


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## Drew (Jan 2, 2008)

sarge said:


> I gues I figured the preamp tube would have a significant role in the amount of total gain (remember, tube newbie).



Well, it does... but not as much as the preamp design. I've never played that series, so who knows, but I doubt you're going to take an amp that's merely a Marshall crunch sort of tone as is and push it into full-on saturation by simply switching preamp tubes. Overdriving the poweramp (a la a Hot Plate) or the preamp (with an overdrive pedal as a boost) is the way you're going to have to go - effectively, you'll need to add a gain stage. 

But, I don't really know this particular amp, so I could be wrong. Maybe it's gainy enough as it is... Either way, play the thing, and if you're not happy with the basic gain structure then pass on it and buy something you're happier with.


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## LordD (Feb 15, 2013)

Hi guys,

I have an Engl E570SE and I get hum (noise) when I use the "Modern" option. When I contacted with Engl support they told me I should try changing the V3 tube. Can you please suggest me one for this kind of preamp?

Thank you in advanced
Dimitris


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## signalgrey (Feb 15, 2013)

holy necro-bump!

I would advise you to contact the nice folks at www.eurotubes.com they have a great list of options and the guys are super friendly and knowledgeable.


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## GizmoGardens (Feb 15, 2013)

Just a tip, but for modern metal sounds I would buy the "Late Distortion" or "Late Breakup" or "Hard" versions of any power amp tubes you're going to use. That way you don't get a lot of power amp distortion until you're really pushing it. Power amp distortion sounds more squishy and fuzzy to me, which is why I go with solid state power anyway.


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## GizmoGardens (Feb 15, 2013)

LordD said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have an Engl E570SE and I get hum (noise) when I use the "Modern" option. When I contacted with Engl support they told me I should try changing the V3 tube. Can you please suggest me one for this kind of preamp?
> 
> ...



Penta Labs 12AX7. I used those for V2 and V3 in a JSX I used to have and I thought they sounded really good. I think I had Tung-Sol in V1 and Sovtek LPS in V4.


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## MrMcSick (Feb 15, 2013)

Isn't v1 in most amps just the input buffer/gain stage? 2/3 usually more gainstage/eq?


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## GizmoGardens (Feb 15, 2013)

MrMcSick said:


> Isn't v1 in most amps just the input buffer/gain stage? 2/3 usually more gainstage/eq?



I'm not familiar with tube amp architecture, but I would be surprised if that was the case. Seems unnecessary to use a tube for a buffer and if that were the case I don't see why they would bother shielding it (V1 is usually the one with the little metal shield/jacket over it).


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## cGoEcYk (Feb 16, 2013)

I found JJ Long Plates to be the best 12ax7 I've tried so far (out of many, but not the Tung Sol).


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## vick1000 (Feb 16, 2013)

I like the Tung Sol ECC803 gold for my top spot, get it hand picked for hi-gain. The one I have now is 110/105, and turns everything I put it in into a screamer. The rest I use are Tun Sol reissues picked for gain, mid 90s across the board.

The long plate JJs are good, but can go microphonic very easily. The Chinese stuff is the other gain monsters, but the lack in warmth and consistancy. You can forget about NOS for hi-gain. A lot of people recommend the EHs, but I have no experience with them.


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## cGoEcYk (Feb 16, 2013)

I had a batch of EH's in rotation for a while and really didnt like them. They seemed to emphasize piercing highs/fizz frequencies with kind of uncontrolled "open" lows. They sucked in my bass amps but were an improvement to whatever the B-52 I owned at the time had in it.


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