# Most overrated player



## Metal-Box (Jul 12, 2013)

OK, so there is a thread about who we think the most underrated player out there. There are tons of talented guitarists that are over looked because their band isn't the most popular, they don't have the big name endorsements (Ibanez, ESP, etc.), or their style is so out there or ahead of the curve that people can't appreciate it. There are many reason these guys are overlooked!

With that being siad, who do you think is getting way more attention than they deserve? For me, it would definitely be Alexi Laiho. He is not a bad guitarist at all, but he is not tops. He has the big name endorsement, signature model, magazine covers, large tours, etc. But he doesn nothing that blows me away. Again, he is a really good guitarist, but not as good as his status would indicate.

Not trying to start anything here, but I was wondering what you all think about it.

This is all my own crappy opinion.


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## GRUNTKOR (Jul 12, 2013)

those sloppy drunks from dragonforce


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 12, 2013)

This may not end well... 

But there are a few mainstream band guitarists who get a lot praise and credit...


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## icos211 (Jul 13, 2013)

Misha Mansoor.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 13, 2013)

icos211 said:


> Misha Mansoor.



SO BRAVE.


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## Datura (Jul 13, 2013)

Tosin abasi


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## Thep (Jul 13, 2013)

Paula Deen. There's no finesse in her cooking at all.

Also the Zimmerman/Martin trial. I don't see why its such a big racial/gun control issue. Dude killed someone, happens all the time. Go about business as usual.

Also, Cabo. If you're trying to find a spot Mexico, skip this place. There's tons of better, cleaner, and safer beach resorts.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jul 13, 2013)

Mick Mars used to (late 80s) get voted best metal guitarist all the time in the rock/metal mags of the day lol.

I like a few of his riffs and all, but the dude has no business wasting time doing concert guitar solos (the type where the whole band takes a break except for the guitarist).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hRokwYCCYBQ


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## BornToLooze (Jul 13, 2013)

I agree with Alexi, Roope is 20x better than he is.


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## Pyrocario (Jul 13, 2013)

Synyster Gates


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## mcsalty (Jul 13, 2013)

not trying to start a shitstorm; but at the risk of getting neg-repped to the depths of hell, i'd have to say Dimebag.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

mcsalty said:


> not trying to start a shitstorm; but at the risk of getting neg-repped to the depths of hell, i'd have to say Dimebag.



No need for neg reps here. People should be able to express their opinion as long as they aren't nasty about it. I remember seeing Dimebag in 1990 or so and being blown away by him. I could hardly believe what I was hearing. That, and his harmonics were destroying my ears. Way too loud for that tiny Trocadero in Philly.


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## glassmoon0fo (Jul 13, 2013)

+1 for Gates, - Eleventybillion for Abasi  

EDIT: why can't I "like" the comment above me?


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## Shaft (Jul 13, 2013)

So much bravery in this thread. I want to defend Misha, but I don't really know anyone who thinks he is an amazing guitar player. He just writes some gnarly riffs. His strong suit is, obviously, his ability to produce tight tracks. 

That said, I would like to add Synester Gates (I don't even care enough to look up how he spells his name) from Avenged Sevenfold. Blech. 

:edit:didn't see someone already posted about Gates. Much <3 to ya and agreeeeeeed:edit:


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## setsuna7 (Jul 13, 2013)

Chris Broderick. His stuff with 'Deth are just bleh...


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## ramses (Jul 13, 2013)

Shaft said:


> So much bravery in this thread. I want to defend Misha, but I don't really know anyone who thinks he is an amazing guitar player. He just writes some gnarly riffs. His strong suit is, obviously, his ability to produce tight tracks.



+1

Misha Mansoor is a James Hetfield for the 21st century.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

ramses said:


> +1
> 
> Misha Mansoor is a James Hetfield for the 21st century.



I always loved Hetfield's picking.


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## Joose (Jul 13, 2013)

Zakk Wylde


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Jul 13, 2013)

Fredrik Thordendal


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

For me it's BB King. I just don't get it at all, and I love blues.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm gonna second Dimebag. He was a solid player, but I think the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young, much like Kurt Cobain.

Tosin Abasi deserves all the recognition he gets because he's seriously just amazing.


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## vilk (Jul 13, 2013)

+1 for Zakk Wylde. Everything about how he plays a guitar just annoys me.

Also Rusty Cooley. Yes, he can play very fast. What does he play? I dunno, I can't pay attention for more than 15 seconds.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jul 13, 2013)

Zakk Wylde, Joe Bonamossa, Jimmy Hendrix (I do credit him, though), Slash, Jack White, Jimmy Page, and maybe some others as far as actually over rated guitarists go.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 13, 2013)

Dimebag and Chuck from Death, people claim both of them as legends but iv never heard anything from either of them that wowed me


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## mike90t09 (Jul 13, 2013)

icos211 said:


> Misha Mansoor.



This times 1000. 

Tosin actually knows what the crap he is doing.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jul 13, 2013)

As far as the modern metal Internet buzz is concerned, the only one I feel comfortable mentioning is Tosin Abasi - I respect the guy as a musician, and he is a talented player with some cool tricks, but most of it sounds contrived if not uninspired to my ears. Not that I don't enjoy his music at all, but listening to his recordings was a let down for me after all of the praise I read/heard. For that matter, a lot of highly praised musicians end up being disappointing/seemingly overrated if they don't meet your tastes


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## sojourner (Jul 13, 2013)

Buckethead

"*master* of over 20 genres..", "way more versatile & diverse than people like guthrie govan.."

seriously?


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## Bodes (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> I'm gonna second Dimebag. He was a solid player, but I think the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young....



You obviously are a youngin, Dimebag was a hugely respected guitarist from the early 90's onwards.

My vote towards Tosin Abasi. Talented guy, not my cup of tea.


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## Idontpersonally (Jul 13, 2013)




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## Manurack (Jul 13, 2013)

The Whitechapel Trio. I just don't find them interesting! Otherwise, someone persuade me.


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## s4tch (Jul 13, 2013)

I agree with most of your list, but come on... 



Adam Of Angels said:


> ...Jimmy Hendrix (I do credit him, though)...



He showed the world how to play an electric guitar. There are just a very few groundbreaking rock players who really did bring something new to the guitar world: Randy Rhoads, Van Halen, Malmsteen, Iommi, and of course Hendrix. He's not overrated, he's the number one in the Guitar Hall of Fame.

No, I don't love his music either. And yes, I can play most of his stuff. But he made a revolution. It's impossible to overrate him.

His first name is Jimi, btw.


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## Addison90 (Jul 13, 2013)

Buckethead, Tosin Abasi. Technically proficient players but sound robotic and dull 



#IMOofcourse


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## rjnix_0329 (Jul 13, 2013)

There are responses here that are actually making me slightly nauseous. To each their own, but...ouch.


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## heregoesnothing (Jul 13, 2013)

s4tch said:


> There are just a very few groundbreaking rock players who really did *bring something new* to the guitar world: Randy Rhoads, Van Halen, Malmsteen, Iommi, and of course Hendrix.



You forgot Jeff Beck, Uli Jon Roth, Ritchie Blackmore, Frank Zappa & Duane Allman..


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## Lickers (Jul 13, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Dimebag and Chuck from Death, people claim both of them as legends but iv never heard anything from either of them that wowed me


 




Both are *seriously* accomplished rhythm players which is always overlooked. Whilst Schuldiner had great soloing capabilities, he wasn't a patch on Dimebag.

Objectively, there has been no-one to match him for his timing, control, melodic ear and outright passion for ripping it up on a guitar since he first burst onto the music scene.
I doubt very much that anyone will get to that level again in my lifetime.


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## Kiwimetal101 (Jul 13, 2013)

Jack White.. Just "meh" comes to mind

Misha Mansoor.. Like it was said before he writes some groovy as fvck riffs and has great producing skills, but nothing special as a guitarist

Kirk Hammett.. Never liked his solo's, ever

Kerry King.. Tight rhythm, but again never really got the solo's "trem wankery" comes to mind

IMHO ofcourse


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

Bodes said:


> You obviously are a youngin, Dimebag was a hugely respected guitarist from the early 90's onwards.
> 
> My vote towards Tosin Abasi. Talented guy, not my cup of tea.



Yeah, I just never got into Pantera. All his solos sound like a bunch of wah, trem wanking and really fast unmusical runs which doesn't really interest me.


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## Black43 (Jul 13, 2013)

Pyrocario said:


> Synyster Gates



+1 for Gates, the arrogant prick. Zacky Vengeance is so much cooler.


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## Maniacal (Jul 13, 2013)

Not sure how you can judge a guitarists true ability without actually sitting in a room with them for a few hours.


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## guitareben (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm not sure this is a... healthy sort of thread...  Kinda a bit negative XD


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## Workhorse (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> I'm gonna second Dimebag. He was a solid player, but I think the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young, much like Kurt Cobain.
> 
> Tosin Abasi deserves all the recognition he gets because he's seriously just amazing.



I respect your opinion but:

1. He wrote some of the most memorable riffs in the history of rock. 
2. He had a very unique style of playing, from 1992 onward no one sounded like him. 
3. Ever try playing his solos? His very own (yet again) and some classic solos as well - they're a pain to cover but great to listen to.
4. Kurt Cobain gets attention because he looks pretty, like bubble gum wrap. 

Seriously, I don't see how Dimebag is overrated, he's an immensely influential player, very well rounded.


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## Workhorse (Jul 13, 2013)

I'll go on a limb and disagree with almost everyone, I don't think any guitarist is overrated - they excel at something and deserve the attention they get.


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## JayFraser (Jul 13, 2013)

I can't specifically name a guitarist who is 'over-rated' in that, he is rated more highly than he should be. How good one guitarist is musically is 100% opinion. However, I can think of a number of guitarists who are rated highly at the expense of other players who never get recognised as a result of being overshadowed.

And the big ones for this are EVH, Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they suck or anything, I'm just saying that people are so stuck in their hero-worship that, oftentimes, they forget other guitarists exist.


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## pattonfreak1 (Jul 13, 2013)

Orianthi


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## Draceius (Jul 13, 2013)

Pretty much any female guitarist in the eyes of the young male fanbase, I'm not trying to discredit them, but you only have to read youtube comments to understand what I mean.


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## Datura (Jul 13, 2013)

Draceius said:


> Pretty much any female guitarist in the eyes of the young male fanbase, I'm not trying to discredit them, but you only have to read youtube comments to understand what I mean.



Was going to say the same thing.


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## dreamermind (Jul 13, 2013)

Slash


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## devolutionary (Jul 13, 2013)

Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.


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## Draceius (Jul 13, 2013)

devolutionary said:


> Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.



Just because you picked at "super fast", I suggest at least giving "For the love of god" a listen if you haven't, though I can totally understand not being able to get into his music.


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## sojourner (Jul 13, 2013)

Draceius said:


> Pretty much any female guitarist in the eyes of the young male fanbase, I'm not trying to discredit them, but you only have to read youtube comments to understand what I mean.



Except Jess Lewis & Emily Remler


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## Kiwimetal101 (Jul 13, 2013)

devolutionary said:


> Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.



This, never quite understood the hype.. I still somewhat respect and admire him though


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## kchay (Jul 13, 2013)

I say that the guys in Metallica are. I mean, good riffs, when they were relevant IMO.
Uhhh Asking Alexandria big time.
Avenged Sevenfold.
Misha I'd also say, although I still can't play it hahaha.


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## ghostred7 (Jul 13, 2013)

Eddie Van Halen
Zakk Wylde
Slash
Dimebag


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## Maniacal (Jul 13, 2013)

Van Halen? No way. That guy was ridiculous in his day.


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## breadtruck (Jul 13, 2013)

I agree with Dime. Even though he was a fantastic player, I think his death makes some people think that he was a god and no one will ever be as good. When you look back in nostalgia then everything seems great. 

I agree with Gates. Even though I'm a fan of their work I think the young fans of the band think he's the best because they haven't heard much other music like that. Avenged are like an entry level hard rock band so a lot of people will get introduced to them first and be blown away by the solos.

I agree with Misha. For some reason around these parts some people are queueing up to kiss his shoes  I love Periphery but I feel like all the members are proficient and people should see it as a band effort and not a continuation of Misha's solo work.

Just to clarify I like all these guitarists and the bands they are/were in, I just see their names being praised a lot lot more than other great guitarists. SPREAD THE LOVE people


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## greendog86 (Jul 13, 2013)

i actually like misha's playing...
maybe his technique and ability is not over the top as some other guitar-heros,
but he dose have his very own unique style and tone, and he have
some very strong material. some really nice melodies and riffs and interesting songs structure... i think he deserves the credit for that.






if talking about overrated players ive never got the hype around Ola Englund...
yes he did manage to get his hands on some of the sexiest gear around but all of his demos sound basically the same imoo, the same generic
7-stringed riffs over and over again.
and i dont dig either feared or 6feetunder...


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## FarBeyondDriven16 (Jul 13, 2013)

greendog86 said:


> i actually like misha's playing...
> maybe his technique and ability is not over the top as some other guitar-heros,
> but he dose have his very own unique style and tone, and he have
> some very strong material. some really nice melodies and riffs and interesting songs structure... i think he deserves the credit for that.
> ...



Ola is revered because he is an excellent producer, not because he has insane chops. Honestly speaking id say Michael Angelo Batio is the most overrated player.


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## ghostred7 (Jul 13, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Van Halen? No way. That guy was ridiculous in his day.


Not really when you have people like Uli Jon Roth, Richie Blackmore, Steve Morse, etc already out. He was overrated even when they 1st came out IMO. Everyone was like, ooh, ahh....Eruption is best thing evar. I'm like "thanks...can I go listen to some Rainbow (with Dio... R.I.P.)?"

Don't get me wrong...EVH is a good guitarist, but I still think he is overrated and that's b/c of the commercial success of the songs themselves, which took them to the general populace by their 1st single being a cover tune.


breadtruck said:


> Just to clarify I like all these guitarists and the bands they are/were in, I just see their names being praised a lot lot more than other great guitarists. SPREAD THE LOVE people



tl;dr .... this^


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## drgamble (Jul 13, 2013)

Wow, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Clapton who has been voted best guitarist in the world several times over. I like a lot of his music and think he is a good blues player, but almost everybody else that has been listed in this thread could play circles around him.


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## Vinchester (Jul 13, 2013)

Good music doesn't need fancy technical licks. But for my vote I'd say;

KIRK HAMMETT


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## Perihelion (Jul 13, 2013)

Keith Merrow


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 13, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> Not really when you have people like Uli Jon Roth, Richie Blackmore, Steve Morse, etc already out.



And when you conider that super heavyweights like John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola and Allan Holdsworth were playing at the same time as those guys, the names you've listed are not even second or third rate, they aren't even on the same planet as the likes of Allan and John.

Anyway, a quick list of a few guy I think are overrated:

Slash
D-bag
Zakk Wylde
The dorks from Avenged Sevenfold
Ola Englund
Chris Broderick
Alexi Laiho - certainly after HCDR, where his playing become much less imaginative
Misha Mansoor
Jimmy Page
Angus Young
Pete Townsend

There are probably loads more I could name, but it's a hot, sunny day and I'm too busy listening to guitarists I like to think about guitarists who blow.


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## Govan Emmanuel (Jul 13, 2013)

The dudes from Trivium


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

Dimebag would tell you himself that he really only knows a few patterns when it comes to soloing. I think the credit he gets is because he was able to help usher in a heavier style of music during a time when metal just was not cool at all. He was the only guitarist in that band, and yet they had this huge sound. I don't buy that "he gets more credit because he died early," either. It's not like he died in the middle of Pantera's huge run; it was 3 years after they stopped playing.


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## Joose (Jul 13, 2013)

guitareben said:


> I'm not sure this is a... healthy sort of thread...  Kinda a bit negative XD



I think it's nice to have a negative thread every now and then. 

I was gonna come in here and defend Misha's playing but... I've learned that's pointless on this forum. The first reply would involve that utterly pathetic word, "fanboy" and I just don't feel like starting my day off like that. 

I guess saying him and Dimebag just bothers me a little. Because they don't just shred like morons all the time. Truly brilliant songwriters. "There's nothing that special"... You mean there's nothing show off-y that doesn't fit the song?? 

Oops, started to get into it anyway. Moving on!


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## Eclipse (Jul 13, 2013)

What is the definition of an "over rated guitarist"?

What qualities or characteristics make one an "over rated guitarist"?


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## Kharon (Jul 13, 2013)

kchay said:


> Uhhh Asking Alexandria big time.



Asking Alexandria have good guitar players... said no one ever haha


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## mulgreaux (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> I'm gonna second Dimebag. He was a solid player, but I think the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young, much like Kurt Cobain.
> 
> Tosin Abasi deserves all the recognition he gets because he's seriously just amazing.



I think you'll find Dime got plenty of attention before he died...


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## Dawn of the Shred (Jul 13, 2013)

Misha (Bulb), Zakk wylde, Kirk hammet, Steve vai, Just dont get it at all. They are all way way overrated IMHO.


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## Legion (Jul 13, 2013)

Jack White takes it away no contest


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 13, 2013)

David Shankle of course... 

Or any guitar player you don't like that gets more recognition than you... Obviously...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 13, 2013)

As much as people like to rag on Zakk, I though the first 2 Ozzy and BLS albums, along with Pride and Glory, were amazing. 

He's not the most technical player, and he's not as good as he used to be, but back in the day, he was a really good writer. Not to mention he's awesome on acoustic.


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## daschy (Jul 13, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> I'll go on a limb and disagree with almost everyone, I don't think any guitarist is overrated - they excel at something and deserve the attention they get.



I'm going to go on a limb and disagree with this post- some guitarists *don't* excel, but do get a whole lot of attention anyways.

And I think we all agree that the opposite of being overrated exists, which is having all the skill in the world and getting none of the recognition, and nobody complained or disagreed with the premise of the 'underrated guitarists' thread somewhere down the page a bit.

So, here's my list of guys who really don't excel, they don't contribute much in my eyes to the world of music, but still get hailed as some sort of hero: (Still, I contribute to the problem by listening to a lot of these people and enjoying their music, but whatever)

Eric Clapton
Slash
Muhammed Suicmez, if only a little
Buckethead, a million times over
Kerry King

...I guess this list could go on a bit


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## Danukenator (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm going to stick up for Slash here. The man wrote some amazing riffs, some amazing solos and gave some amazing live performances (...and so not so great ones ). As far as the hard rock with blues influence goes, Slash is amazing. He excelled at what he does and the man can still play after all the years of parties and getting wasted.

I think in a thread like this, people need to consider what these players accomplished aside from sales and number of fans. Yngwie basically got the ball going for an entire genre of music (shred) and hugely upped the mainstream bar for what "technical" was. Eddie Van Halen accomplished a similar feat and brought an technique into the playing field. Look at all the copy cat musicians these people have. They may be famous but their inspiration started careers for the next generations. However, I agree many of these musicians have ridiculous fanboies. Go for averages when looking at hype. I almost never listen to obnoxious teens on the net. Who cares of Misha has a legion of annoying fans. The guy helped pave the way for a gazillion new bands, like it or not.

I also love threads like this. It's fun to hear what people DON'T like every now and again. It can spark a discussion, etc.


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## Knyas (Jul 13, 2013)

ramses said:


> +1
> 
> Misha Mansoor is a James Hetfield for the 21st century.




Not a comparison I'd make for any aspect of either player.


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## fps (Jul 13, 2013)

ramses said:


> +1
> 
> Misha Mansoor is a James Hetfield for the 21st century.



WHAT!? James Hetfield is one of the most formative, influential and greatest rhythm guitarists and riff writers in the history of metal.

Anyway, this thread won't end well. It's basically going to be a lot of people saying *I'm jealous of X's success.*


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## fps (Jul 13, 2013)

wespaul said:


> Dimebag would tell you himself that he really only knows a few patterns when it comes to soloing. I think the credit he gets is because he was able to help usher in a heavier style of music during a time when metal just was not cool at all. He was the only guitarist in that band, and yet they had this huge sound.



No it's because people really like his music, his style, and the sounds that came out of his guitar.


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## Sverdugo (Jul 13, 2013)

Manurack said:


> The Whitechapel Trio. I just don't find them interesting! Otherwise, someone persuade me.



Once that new wave of metal hit while I was in mid-high school I never understood why so many people loved Whitechapel and Job For a Cowboy. Bozeman is cool and everything, but the guitarists are just plain uninteresting to me and it takes more than just a frontman for me to like a band.


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## donray1527 (Jul 13, 2013)

Datura said:


> Tosin abasi



Are you serious?

That being said, absolutley the guys from Asking Alexandria. They both. Even have Ibby sigs now...


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## donray1527 (Jul 13, 2013)

Also, whitechapel's guitarists are ....ing awesome. If anything it's Bozeman who could use work.


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## donray1527 (Jul 13, 2013)

setsuna7 said:


> Chris Broderick. His stuff with 'Deth are just bleh...



This is just... No lol


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 13, 2013)

donray1527 said:


> This is just... No lol



Given the last 2 Megadeth albums have been pretty lackluster, he has a point. 

Then again, he doesn't have much room to shine.


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## Curt (Jul 13, 2013)

Kharon said:


> Asking Alexandria have good guitar players... said no one ever haha


 Including both of the guitarists themselves.

I think the point is being missed a lot in this thread.

People like Misha, The guys from Whitechapel, and the Asking Alexandria guys never really get praise on the large scale for their technique(okay, maybe Misha.), and none of them claim any level of virtuosity, nor do most of them consider themselves all that great.

IMO, David Shankle is overrated. Has an inflated ego, claims to be a virtuoso, while being incredibly sloppy. He doesn't get as much credit these days, but still.


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## crg123 (Jul 13, 2013)

devolutionary said:


> Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.



So I have a question. Alot of people say similar stuff about Vai. He's not a shred-demon. That's not the point to him. He makes his guitar since. Listening to Passion and Warfare made me pick up guitar. What songs are people listening to where the highlight is his "technical prowess and chops" it's always been about how much passion goes into his music. I'd love for someone to clear this up for me because it seems to be a common thing people say and it confuses the shit out of me.


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## AdenM (Jul 13, 2013)

Kirk Hammet. Sloppy technique and I don't find pentatonic scales and wah on every solo interesting. Also has a bad attitude. 
Both of the dudes in BVB. I actually don't mind/enjoy some of Black Veil Bride's music as a whole, but their rockstar attitude, and the fact that they claim to be doing something unique and bringing metal back through their music is pretentious and inaccurate.
Jack White - I used to think he was overrated, especially when he was linked to the Edge and Jimmy Page. I don't consider him to be a "virtuoso", I do think his solo album is amazing and well written. 
I can't think of anyone else right now...lolol

In regards to those saying Misha Mansoor, I think that his fanboys are the ones who claim him to be a virtuoso. He himself does not boast about his playing and frequently cites Jake Bowen and Mark Holcomb as being much better players than he is; Misha's prowess is in his songwriting and production skill, which, IMO, are infinitely more valuable. And say what you want, but if you don't consider Tosin Abasi to be one of the best guitarists alive at this moment, I think that you should watch him play.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 13, 2013)

Lickers said:


> Both are *seriously* accomplished rhythm players which is always overlooked. Whilst Schuldiner had great soloing capabilities, he wasn't a patch on Dimebag.
> 
> Objectively, there has been no-one to match him for his timing, control, melodic ear and outright passion for ripping it up on a guitar since he first burst onto the music scene.
> I doubt very much that anyone will get to that level again in my lifetime.


im completely serious, iv got friends that are massive pantera and dime fans but his playing has never impressed me and his tone is absolute garbage. Chuck and Dime have both written a cool riff here and there but i still dont see why they are regarded so highly.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

wespaul said:


> Dimebag would tell you himself that he really only knows a few patterns when it comes to soloing. I think the credit he gets is because he was able to help usher in a heavier style of music during a time when metal just was not cool at all. He was the only guitarist in that band, and yet they had this huge sound. I don't buy that "he gets more credit because he died early," either. It's not like he died in the middle of Pantera's huge run; it was 3 years after they stopped playing.



Considering they were pretty much a glam metal band, albeit experimenting with heavier sounds as they progressed, until the late 80s I think there were other bands that did more for making metal cool than Pantera at that time. Dimebag was a good player, but there are countless players better than him IMO He's the person a lot of meathead metal guys cite as the pinnacle of a metal guitarist and that's just grossly inaccurate as far as I'm concerned. Also Pantera broke up in 2003, Damageplan was formed in 2004 and Dimebag was killed in 2004, definitely not 3 years after they stopped playing.


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## rikomaru (Jul 13, 2013)

crg123 said:


> So I have a question. Alot of people say similar stuff about Vai. He's not a shred-demon. That's not the point to him. He makes his guitar since. Listening to Passion and Warfare made me pick up guitar. What songs are people listening to where the highlight is his "technical prowess and chops" it's always been about how much passion goes into his music. I'd love for someone to clear this up for me because it seems to be a common thing people say and it confuses the shit out of me.


 
maybe they shoot straight for uhh........well.........hm.....freak show excess?

I don't know. I get the same response when i mention him anywhere. Sure, he can play fast, but you don't see peope having the same reaction when his eminence, Petrucci is mentioned. I usually recommend Tender Surrender, Windows To The Soul, and Bangkok/Fire Garden to the few who are actually willing to give it a legit shot though.

so umm......i'll say Segovia just to be against the grain and attract some real nerd rage lmfao


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## Curt (Jul 13, 2013)

AdenM said:


> , but if you don't consider Tosin Abasi to be one of the best guitarists alive at this moment, I think that you should watch him play.


 

He may be one of the better in terms of technique, but most of his work does not interest me.


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## drgamble (Jul 13, 2013)

The one thing all of these guitars players have in common is, that unlike most of the people on this forum, they were/are successful at what they do and actually make a living playing guitar. That has to count for something.


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## fps (Jul 13, 2013)

drgamble said:


> The one thing all of these guitars players have in common is, that unlike most of the people on this forum, they were/are successful at what they do and actually make a living playing guitar. That has to count for something.



Absolutely, and more power to them for it 

This thread was only going to be a giant bitchfest from the start anyway.


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## Curt (Jul 13, 2013)

FWIW, I respect pretty much all the guitarists that have managed any degree of success.

Except David Shankle, his cockbag personality irks me.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 13, 2013)

drgamble said:


> The one thing all of these guitars players have in common is, that unlike most of the people on this forum, they were/are successful at what they do and actually make a living playing guitar. That has to count for something.



Yeah it counts for money in the pocket of the artist, record companies, investors and shareholders. Unfortunately we're not discussing earning potential, or your comment might have some merit, we're discussing artistic and technical accomplishment against perceived accomplishment. Justin Bieber makes a living from "singing", doesn't mean he is a talented singer in the slightest. "Making a living" from your music is only a sign of what enough people enjoy enough to pay for, it doesn't have anything to do with the ability of the artist.


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## Curt (Jul 13, 2013)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yeah it counts for money in the pocket of the artist, record companies, investors and shareholders. Unfortunately we're not discussing earning potential, or your comment might have some merit, we're discussing artistic and technical accomplishment against perceived accomplishment. Justin Bieber makes a living from "singing", doesn't mean he is a talented singer in the slightest. "Making a living" from your music is only a sign of what enough people enjoy enough to pay for, it doesn't have anything to do with the ability of the artist.


 

That's the thing, I like a fair share of music that is a far cry from being technically astounding, and feel like the focus should be shifted away from that a little.


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## Lickers (Jul 13, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> im completely serious, iv got friends that are massive pantera and dime fans but his playing has never impressed me and his tone is absolute garbage. Chuck and Dime have both written a cool riff here and there but i still dont see why they are regarded so highly.


 
What difference is it if you have friends that are massive fans? It's your opinion that is involved in the discussion here.

Saying they wrote 'a cool riff here and there' is grossly naive by any stretch which serves to illustrate you're looking at this subjectively - not objectively. 
You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else here, but personal preference is rarely a true indicator of facts. 

Granted, Death didn't have much commercial success but Pantera did. 
They were regarded so highly because both were pioneers in their respective fields that heavily influenced the following generations of guitarists and will no doubt continue to influence for years to come. That's the true measure of success.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 13, 2013)

Curt said:


> That's the thing, I like a fair share of music that is a far cry from being technically astounding, and feel like the focus should be shifted away from that a little.



Same here, but you still get guitarists who have a low level of technical ability being hailed as "guitar gods", especially by rags like NMW and Q. This thread is not about the technical factor, it's about who is perceived as better than they really are.


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## s4tch (Jul 13, 2013)

AdenM said:


> Kirk Hammet. ...



Is he overrated? I haven't read nor heard any praising of Kirk's playing since the mid '90s.  I'd rather say he's underrated: the guy who wrote the leads for Creeping Death, The Shortest Straw, Master of Puppets, Damage Inc (etc) does absolutely not deserve the bashing he got in the last 20 years.

For me, the most overrated player these days is Ola Englund. He's a monster in recording stuff, but as a guitar player, he's nothing more than an average guy. He's a cool guy, a fine sound engineer/producer, a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything special as a player. If I ever was to get private lessons from any known player, he would be the last on my list, right with the guy from Green Day.


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

fps said:


> No it's because people really like his music, his style, and the sounds that came out of his guitar.



That's what I said 



MatthewLeisher said:


> Considering they were pretty much a glam metal band, albeit experimenting with heavier sounds as they progressed, until the late 80s I think there were other bands that did more for making metal cool than Pantera at that time. Dimebag was a good player, but there are countless players better than him IMO He's the person a lot of meathead metal guys cite as the pinnacle of a metal guitarist and that's just grossly inaccurate as far as I'm concerned. Also Pantera broke up in 2003, Damageplan was formed in 2004 and Dimebag was killed in 2004, definitely not 3 years after they stopped playing.



You must be a young guy. When Pantera was a glam band, metal was extremely popular. When Pantera emerged with their heavy sound in the early 90s, metal was NOT popular. Grunge effectively killed heavy metal's popularity in mainstream music. In spite of that, Pantera enjoyed the height of their success during this time, and the style of music they were playing was heavier than anything else. Dimebag was largely responsible for that, whether you like him or not.

And you're right, Pantera broke up in 2003, but they played their last show in August of 2001. Dimebag was killed in December of 2004. So Dimebag's death comes after over 3 years of the last time Pantera played together.


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## BucketheadRules (Jul 13, 2013)

People saying Buckethead makes me a sad panda. 

Anyway, my vote has to go to Kirk Hammett... and Jimmy Page.


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jul 13, 2013)

+1 for Slash and Misha, and Hendrix


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## The Mirror (Jul 13, 2013)

Yngwie Malmsteen. 

He might be good but in my opinion: His tone sucks, his attitude sucks even more and to me all his leads sound the same. 

But well... I guess that all is based on my musical interest. Long story short: I hate "Shred-Metal" 

No seriously, I just can't listen to that guy for longer than a minute.


----------



## MrPepperoniNipples (Jul 13, 2013)

fps said:


> WHAT!? James Hetfield is one of the most formative, influential and greatest rhythm guitarists and riff writers in the history of metal.



Does anyone else see the irony in this post?


I think it's pretty fair game to say that just about every guitarist that has reached a certain level of success or size of audience has been, is, and will be 'overrated' to some extent.


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## BucketheadRules (Jul 13, 2013)

s4tch said:


> Is he overrated? I haven't read nor heard any praising of Kirk's playing since the mid '90s.  I'd rather say he's underrated: the guy who wrote the leads for Creeping Death, The Shortest Straw, Master of Puppets, Damage Inc (etc) does absolutely not deserve the bashing he got in the last 20 years.
> 
> For me, the most overrated player these days is Ola Englund. He's a monster in recording stuff, but as a guitar player, he's nothing more than an average guy. He's a cool guy, a fine sound engineer/producer, a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything special as a player. If I ever was to get private lessons from any known player, he would be the last on my list, right with the guy from Green Day.



Ola writes some monstrous riffs.

As for Kirk... his peak was really Ride The Lightning IMO, solos-wise. I mean... listen to the solo on Wherever I May Roam. That's not even "meh", that is a genuinely horrible solo that makes me want to turn the song off. Most of his solos are pretty boring and samey to my ears. And Jesus Christ, why the f*ck can't he shut up with the wah pedal? Him using wah on all his solos is like taking a bland, flavourless cake and smearing shit all over it for icing.

I do still love early Metallica, but to be honest, most of what I love about it is Hetfield and Cliff.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 13, 2013)

The Mirror said:


> Yngwie Malmsteen.
> 
> He might be good but in my opinion: His tone sucks, his attitude sucks even more and to me all his leads sound the same.
> 
> ...



I agree with some points here, Yngwie has about 4 or 5 stock licks that he alternates between and makes his playing sound very one dimensional, his attitude stinks and he doesn't know how to "play to the song" at all (watch him soloing away over the top of Vai and Satch on the dvd when they are meant to be taking turns on the jam songs) etc, but his tone and his vibrato are superb.


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## oniduder (Jul 13, 2013)

steve vai, joe satchmo and misha, i feel like i just did something bad oh well


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## DarkWolfXV (Jul 13, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> Ola writes some monstrous riffs.



Weak, boring, generic and tasteless jumpda....up "groove metal" riffs. Really horrible. He is better as a producer and amp tester than a songwriter. Ola is totally overrated.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 13, 2013)

Lickers said:


> What difference is it if you have friends that are massive fans? It's your opinion that is involved in the discussion here.
> 
> Saying they wrote 'a cool riff here and there' is grossly naive by any stretch which serves to illustrate you're looking at this subjectively - not objectively.
> You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else here, but personal preference is rarely a true indicator of facts.
> ...



this entire thread is about opinions and personal preferences so im not quite sure what you're trying to say there.


> who do you think is getting way more attention than they deserve?


^ taken from the first post of the thread.

i think you're letting your own opinions of Chuck and Dime get in the way, if you notice im probably the fourth or fifth person who has mentioned Dime as being overrated.

saying they wrote a cool riff here and there isn't naive, its my opinion. just because they were innovators doesn't mean i have to regard them as legends or enjoy their playing.


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## drgamble (Jul 13, 2013)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yeah it counts for money in the pocket of the artist, record companies, investors and shareholders. Unfortunately we're not discussing earning potential, or your comment might have some merit, we're discussing artistic and technical accomplishment against perceived accomplishment. Justin Bieber makes a living from "singing", doesn't mean he is a talented singer in the slightest. "Making a living" from your music is only a sign of what enough people enjoy enough to pay for, it doesn't have anything to do with the ability of the artist.



My pick above was Clapton, so you don't have to give me the speech about money not equaling talent. Most of the guys that have been mentioned on this thread were never lauded as the greatest guitar player in the world like Clapton. 

The funny thing about this is that the best players are people that most have never heard of. The ones that are lauded as the best either revolutionized music in their heyday, or were largely successful (record sales).

So what are we talking about when it comes to being overrated? Technique, versatility, style? Does it come to how many people know the riffs and solos by the player?


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm really glad this has been civil so far.

In relatively new around here and am very impressed with the general character of this message board.

Thanks!


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jul 13, 2013)

Chuck was (IMO) a monster player and front-man, no clue how he's overrated. Listen to Sound of Perseverance and Scream Bloody Gore side by side to see the musical growth. Back to over-rated guitarists however, I second Misha and Alexi, and nominate the wankfest artists from IWABO.


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## drgamble (Jul 13, 2013)

I also think that one cannot really compare guitar players nowadays with guitar players from the past. Since the Internet age, we have educational materials, videos, lessons, etc at our fingertips. I grew up in a time where there wasn't the Internet, you only had magazines, books, or VHS tapes. You had to pay for that crap. Guys like Jimi Hendrix learned by playing a whole lot and not doing as much studying. Technology has allowed the explosion of some really phenomenal players. That may be why many of the older guitar players are recognized so much. Anyway, this thread is pointless.


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## CrownofWorms (Jul 13, 2013)

Manurack said:


> The Whitechapel Trio. I just don't find them interesting! Otherwise, someone persuade me.



When was Whitechapel ever considered to be a band of guitar center wank heroes?


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## Curt (Jul 13, 2013)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Same here, but you still get guitarists who have a low level of technical ability being hailed as "guitar gods", especially by rags like NMW and Q. This thread is not about the technical factor, it's about who is perceived as better than they really are.


 In that case, I could name at least 100 more.


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## Don Vito (Jul 13, 2013)

pattonfreak1 said:


> Orianthi


Only legit post in the entire thread.



BornToLooze said:


> I agree with Alexi, Roope is 20x better than he is.


If we're talking solos, I haven't heard anything from Roope that compares to Alexi circa 1999-2003. Good guitarist for sure, but not substantially better than Alexi. His solos in Bodom usually suck too, but that's not a good judgment of him overall.




With that being said, as much of an Alexi fanboy that I am, I'll agree that he's overrated. Most of his licks are rehashed Yngwie(old)and Ozzy licks, but he has a good sense of melody and wrote my favorite album of all time(Follow the Reaper).

I'll throw in Chuck from Death. Great songwriter, but his riffs were downright boring and repetitive, even up to the melodic based riffing of the later albums. His solos were nothing to write home about either.


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## wannabguitarist (Jul 13, 2013)

I had no idea Roope played that solo^


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## CrownofWorms (Jul 13, 2013)

It's ironic. People will complain about all of these guys since it's not what they like. But look at the things these guys wrote and how much of an influence they put upon............almost all of us.

I mean when I was younger I totally wanted to be the next Dimebag and Alexi. And then I wanted to be the next Chuck Schuldiner.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

wespaul said:


> That's what I said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Being young doesn't really have anything to do with it. I wasn't even born before Jimi Hendrix died and I fully appreciate and love his work. The same goes for many bands that hit the height of their popularity before I was born, I love a lot of music from before my time. Pantera just doesn't do anything for me. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s. Slayer was a pretty badass band that released some heavy material in the 90s also.


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## BucketheadRules (Jul 13, 2013)

Alexi has been playing much worse recently but I will concede, from 1999 to about 2003 he was incredible.

Follow The Reaper has some superb lead guitar moments on it. Great songs too. And much better vocals than he's doing now.


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## Don Vito (Jul 13, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> *Alexi has been playing much worse recently* but I will concede, from 1999 to about 2003 he was incredible.
> 
> Follow The Reaper has some superb lead guitar moments on it. Great songs too. And much better vocals than he's doing now.


Live, I don't agree. He's getting better, but the vocals are still _*really*_ bad.
CHILDREN OF BODOM 'Downfall' SONISPHERE FRANCE Amnéville 9.06.2013 - YouTube

Album wise, the solos are weaker I'll agree. Riff wise, the newest one was an improvement. Little to no groove metal/metalcore riffs


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 13, 2013)

CrownofWorms said:


> It's ironic. People will complain about all of these guys since it's not what they like. But look at the things these guys wrote and how much of an influence they put upon............almost all of us.



I agree. I bitch about Kirk Hammett a lot, but if it wasn't for those early 80's Metallica records, my picking wrist would be weak as .....


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

I may think Alexi's playing is less than innovative lately, but I still just got the Halo of Blood disc. It's really good, but not like their older stuff.


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> Being young doesn't really have anything to do with it. I wasn't even born before Jimi Hendrix died and I fully appreciate and love his work. The same goes for many bands that hit the height of their popularity before I was born, I love a lot of music from before my time. Pantera just doesn't do anything for me. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s. Slayer was a pretty badass band that released some heavy material in the 90s also.



I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with not putting things in proper perspective. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s, but very few shared in the popularity that Pantera basked in, which was the whole point: Pantera enjoyed the height of their success during a time when heavy music wasn't "in", and Dimebag was the one driving those riffs. Belittling Dimebag and his accomplishments with pigeonholing the very people giving him those accolades as "meathead metalheads" is absurd, and your whole timeline was wrong on top of it.

It's funny that you mention Slayer making heavy music in the 90s, because toward the end of that decade, they completely changed their style on Diabolus in Musica, which was trying to do less of the thrash stuff and more of the heavy metal that grooved, which was what Pantera was doing.


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## Don Vito (Jul 13, 2013)

Metal-Box said:


> I may think Alexi's playing is less than innovative lately, but I still just got the Halo of Blood disc. It's really good, but not like their older stuff.


I bought it too.

Technical wise, it's not as good as the old albums, but the mood and theme is there again.

We have a thread btw http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/212613-children-bodom-megathread-25.html


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

wespaul said:


> I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with not putting things in proper perspective. There were a lot of other bands playing heavy music in the 90s, but very few shared in the popularity that Pantera basked in, which was the whole point: Pantera enjoyed the height of their success during a time when heavy music wasn't "in", and Dimebag was the one driving those riffs. Belittling Dimebag and his accomplishments with pigeonholing the very people giving him those accolades as "meathead metalheads" is absurd, and your whole timeline was wrong on top of it.
> 
> It's funny that you mention Slayer making heavy music in the 90s, because toward the end of that decade, they completely changed their style on Diabolus in Musica, which was trying to do less of the thrash stuff and more of the heavy metal that grooved, which was what Pantera was doing.



How was my timeline wrong? I'm not belittling Dimebag in the least, I'm not saying he's a bad player/writer/musician at all. He wrote some cool riffs and solos, but he is overrated _IMO_. This thread is about opinions. Music in general is all about your opinion of what you like and what you don't, I'm not saying definitively that Dimebag didn't have any hand in popularizing heavy metal, I'm saying he wasn't solely responsible for it and it kinda seems like you're implying that he was. While Pantera was still a glam metal band Slayer released Reign In Blood and South of Heaven, two albums which sound much heavier to me than Pantera's Power Metal which was released the same year as South of Heaven and two years after Reign In Blood. I listened to Cowboys From Hell and Seasons In The Abyss alternating track for track and Slayer just sounded more interesting to me. CFH wasn't bad in any sense of the word, just not my thing. It's just my opinion, no need to get all bent out of shape over it.


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## isispelican (Jul 13, 2013)

Batio, Slash, Satriani


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> How was my timeline wrong? I'm not belittling Dimebag in the least, I'm not saying he's a bad player/writer/musician at all. He wrote some cool riffs and solos, but he is overrated _IMO_. This thread is about opinions. Music in general is all about your opinion of what you like and what you don't, I'm not saying definitively that Dimebag didn't have any hand in popularizing heavy metal, I'm saying he wasn't solely responsible for it and it kinda seems like you're implying that he was. While Pantera was still a glam metal band Slayer released Reign In Blood and South of Heaven, two albums which sound much heavier to me than Pantera's Power Metal which was released the same year as South of Heaven and two years after Reign In Blood. I listened to Cowboys From Hell and Seasons In The Abyss alternating track for track and Slayer just sounded more interesting to me. CFH wasn't bad in any sense of the word, just not my thing. It's just my opinion, no need to get all bent out of shape over it.



Your timeline is wrong because you said the last time Pantera played together was 2003, when that was when they broke up, and not their last actual show. And saying the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young absolutely belittles him, as well as calling people who do give him recognition "meathead metalheads." Those are your words.

It's fine to have an opinion, but you're basing it off of something that isn't true. Dimebag was insanely popular in the 90s. He was right up there with Kirk Hammett in guitar polls, and on the cover of way too many guitar magazines to count. That's why I figured you were young, because if you were conscious of what was going on during that decade, you definitely wouldn't write something like "he's gets so much recognition because he died young." 

And we are arguing two different things. I'm not arguing over which is heavier between Pantera and Slayer, or what albums. I'm arguing that Pantera was pushing the boundaries in heavy music at a time when it wasn't even popular to play metal. That's a pretty incredible accomplishment.

And I'm not bent out of shape. In fact, I love heavy metal and the history behind it and the bands that create the music. I can talk about this all day, so don't take it as an attack on you, or your opinion. I don't expect you to gush over Dimebag or Pantera, and you can think he is overrated, which I won't argue. I will, however, argue that his death doesn't really play a part in the recognition he _does_ get, and what they did in the 90s was an incredible accomplishment.

Hugs.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 13, 2013)

wespaul said:


> Your timeline is wrong because you said the last time Pantera played together was 2003, when that was when they broke up, and not their last actual show. And saying the main reason he gets so much recognition is because he died young absolutely belittles him, as well as calling people who do give him recognition "meathead metalheads." Those are your words.
> 
> It's fine to have an opinion, but you're basing it off of something that isn't true. Dimebag was insanely popular in the 90s. He was right up there with Kirk Hammett in guitar polls, and on the cover of way too many guitar magazines to count. That's why I figured you were young, because if you were conscious of what was going on during that decade, you definitely wouldn't write something like "he's gets so much recognition because he died young."
> 
> ...



I didn't say that 2003 was the last time they played, I said that's when they broke up. Kurt Cobain was super popular too, but became a legend after he died. Dimebag was popular as hell as well, but became a legend after he died. Same with Hendrix, and Morrison and SRV. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be regarded as legends, you're just assuming I meant that was the ONLY reason they're popular and hyped as much as they are. This doesn't mean they weren't great at what they did, but them dying young absolutely plays a part in how popular they were following their deaths. I'm not so much arguing Slayer is heavier as I am arguing that Slayer was doing more to push boundaries earlier than Pantera was imo. This is a pointless argument because our minds won't change, and I don't like arguing with people on SSO because I feel like we're all family here. So I'm sorry if I offended you with anything I said bro! <3


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## monkeysuncle (Jul 13, 2013)

Wayne Campbell


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## Datura (Jul 13, 2013)

I once picked up a guitar magazine that had the guy from muse on the cover hailing him as the new Hendrix, so I'll have to throw him in the mix too.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

Datura said:


> I once picked up a guitar magazine that had the guy from muse on the cover hailing him as the new Hendrix, so I'll have to throw him in the mix too.



Hahahaha!


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## wespaul (Jul 13, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> I didn't say that 2003 was the last time they played, I said that's when they broke up.



You said they broke up in 2003, but at the tail end of your statement you infer that the last time they played was when they broke up:



MatthewLeisher said:


> Also Pantera broke up in 2003, Damageplan was formed in 2004 and Dimebag was killed in 2004, definitely not 3 years after they stopped playing.



It's not even that big of a deal, though. I _would_ argue that Kurt Cobain died while Nirvana was red-hot, which cemented his legacy before we could get a broader picture of his career. Cobain was 27 when he died, and Dime was nearing 40, too. Dime and Vinnie sat around for a few years after they last played with Pantera, did nothing, and then formed Damageplan, which had a luke-warm reception. I feel we have more of a complete picture with Dime and his career, which I feel deserves more than a write-off of "he gets recognition because he died early."



MatthewLeisher said:


> I'm not so much arguing Slayer is heavier as I am arguing that Slayer was doing more to push boundaries earlier than Pantera was imo.



This is where I get lost. Nobody is denying that Slayer set a gold standard with thrash metal in the 80s. Nobody is denying that Pantera was a struggling glam metal band in the 80s, either. We're talking about Dimebag being overrated and his death having a role in elevating his accomplishments. I'd argue that Pantera's accomplishments in the 90s is more impressive, considering grunge and alternative music all but killed the genre dead. Slayer's rise took place during an era when metal was actually popular and on the radio. In the late 90s, Slayer was struggling to find their sound, and I'd even argue that they never truly recovered since then. It's kind of like a mirror image of each band's career highs and lows.

But please don't apologize and think you've offended me. Like I said, I love this sort of stuff. I can talk Metallica, Pantera, Megadeth, Testament, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Soilwork, Anthrax, (the list goes on and on) all day. I'm kinda bummed the discussion will end, but that's okay. The music lives on.


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## Shaft (Jul 13, 2013)

How this thread did not turn into a flame war is beyond me. 

You guys are awesome.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

Don Vito said:


> I bought it too.
> 
> Technical wise, it's not as good as the old albums, but the mood and theme is there again.
> 
> We have a thread btw http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/212613-children-bodom-megathread-25.html



I read though that entire thread. LOL. Like I said, I am not the biggest Alexi fan, but I love COB. His sig model is definitely on my GAS list.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

Shaft said:


> How this thread did not turn into a flame war is beyond me.
> 
> You guys are awesome.



I never intended to start a flame war and I am glad it didn't become one so far. I was just curious how people viewed popular guitar players out there. With such a wide demographic, I am not surprised at how the opinions are playing out. I think, for the most part, perspective and context plays a big part in the "overrated" opinion.


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## will_shred (Jul 13, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Chuck from Death, people claim both of them as legends but iv never heard anything from either of them that wowed me




I am trying very hard to not get to butthurt but really? come on. 

The dude founded 2 genres of metal. He was a serious musical genius and what I consider to be a real ground breaker. Just listen to The Sound of Perseverance, then listen to any death/prog/melodic death metal past the year 2000. His influence is EVERYWHERE. For that reason I really don't think he can be over rated. I suppose anyone can make 2 subgenres  but how many people can say they invented something as big as Death metal and progressive death metal? Not many.



Also for overrated guitar players? I find it kind of hard to come up with guitar players that I feel are genuinely over rated.

EVH for sure, haven't heard anything from him that really wowed me. At least not enough to say "That guy needs to have an entire portion of the guitar market dedicated to him". I suppose you could say the same for dime however I think dime would be rolling over in his grave seeing how dean has whored his name out for money. 

Zakk Wylde, Early stuff was pretty cool however I hardly think his playing lives up to his position in the music industry. I can't stand to listen to his solos now days, the music is drowned out in a mix of alcohol and wah. 


a lot of the kind of obscure shred guys, Rusty Cooley, MAB and so on. Yeah they might be able to play 32,000 notes per second but I've never heard any particularly impressive music from them.

OH and of course those dudes from dragon force, they're just awful if anyones actually seen them live. Awful.


----------



## trickae (Jul 13, 2013)

Metal-Box said:


> who do you think is getting way more attention than they deserve? For me, it would definitely be Alexi Laiho. He is not a bad guitarist at all, but he is not tops. He has the big name endorsement, signature model, magazine covers, large tours, etc. *But he doesn nothing that blows me away.* Again, he is a really good guitarist, but not as good as his status would indicate.



Its a good idea for a thread. In Alexi's defence, he went through the same thing as Dimabag and sepultura. When they went from leather pants to camo they dropped the shred and donned easy groove based riffs. It was them keeping up with the times.

To truly appreciate alexi's song writting - check out the albums Something wild, hatebreeder & follow the reaper. 

To me he was trying to revamp neoclassical for a more accessible audience with a nod to both malmsteen and iron maiden. It wasn't supposed to be complex - just great sounding. I wouldn't call him the next Randy Rhoades, as George Lynch once said, but more of a tribute player like comparing zakk wylde to the great Randy.





GRUNTKOR said:


> those sloppy drunks from dragonforce



x2 - hate how dry and uninspiring their leads are



mcsalty said:


> not trying to start a shitstorm; but at the risk of getting neg-repped to the depths of hell, i'd have to say Dimebag.





setsuna7 said:


> Chris Broderick. His stuff with 'Deth are just bleh...



This x1000 wtf is wrong with megadeth? I was expecting them to sound like Jag Panzer/nevermore and old school rust in peace era megadeth. They took their sound from Risk, imo the worst sound they had in their careers and kept it. Chris Broderick is a phenomenal player but he has to speak up more to get more of his style into the riff writing process with Dave Mustaine. 



icos211 said:


> Misha Mansoor.



Great riffs, just needs a bit of refining. I was expecting more input from Nolly for the new album but was dissapointed. It sounded too haphazard. 



devolutionary said:


> Vai. I can respect his technical prowess and chops, but I personally have never heard anything from him that I can personally connect with as a piece, song, or otherwise. He may as well be a super-fast, well-programmed synth to me - well organised, extensively proficient, but just lacking in anything I can find truly worthy of the levels of praise he receives.



Vai is an acquired taste that takes years to develop. I heard of vai when I was in grade 8 in high school, couldn't stand his music and never touched it until I overheard real illusions. Two songs really stood out - building the church and K'm pee du wee. After that I actually took up guitar lessons to be able to play with that kind of control. 

Even after years of listening to vai - I don't dig all his music. Some songs stand out more than others depending on the style you lean towards. What he does do well is variety of different styles and no two songs sound alike. Each song has a story and over the most basic riffs he can make it soar. 

Check out the following videos to gain an appreciation - not many guitarists can pull of that level of feel behind their notes.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 13, 2013)

will_shred said:


> I am trying very hard to not get to butthurt but really? come on.
> 
> The dude founded 2 genres of metal. He was a serious musical genius and what I consider to be a real ground breaker. Just listen to The Sound of Perseverance, then listen to any death/prog/melodic death metal past the year 2000. His influence is EVERYWHERE. For that reason I really don't think he can be over rated. I suppose anyone can make 2 subgenres  but how many people can say they invented something as big as Death metal and progressive death metal? Not many.




im aware of his influence and playing ability but im just not impressed by it. just a difference of opinion


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## Metal-Box (Jul 13, 2013)

trickae said:


> Vai is an acquired taste that takes years to develop. I heard of vai when I was in grade 8 in high school, couldn't stand his music and never touched it until I overheard real illusions. Two songs really stood out - building the church and K'm pee du wee. After that I actually took up guitar lessons to be able to play with that kind of control.
> 
> Even after years of listening to vai - I don't dig all his music. Some songs stand out more than others depending on the style you lean towards. What he does do well is variety of different styles and no two songs sound alike. Each song has a story and over the most basic riffs he can make it soar.



+1


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## Datura (Jul 13, 2013)

Steve vais 'feel' feels cheesy, forced and over the top to me.


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## will_shred (Jul 13, 2013)

> Check out the following videos to gain an appreciation - not many guitarists can pull of that level of feel behind their notes.




I really started to appreciate Vai after kind of understanding where he came from, I mean he started out playing guitar with Frank Zappa. If you think of him as being very influenced by Zappa and kind of then diving into the metal world, it all starts to make sense.


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## Cloudy (Jul 13, 2013)

setsuna7 said:


> Chris Broderick. His stuff with 'Deth are just bleh...



-1 Brodericks work in Megadeth was really solid.


+1 for Steve Vai, good guitarist but way way over blown.


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jul 14, 2013)

Chuck wasn't the player with the most musical theory ever, But he defined and then redefined a genre. Not only that, but I can instantly recognize his tone. In Death Metal specifically, the dude can not get enough praise in my book.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 14, 2013)

Allan Holdsworth: To my ear he sounds awful, the notes he plays just sound like useless dribble. What people describe as unique phrasing just sounds like poor note choice.
Fredrik Thordendal: I actually like a bit of Meshuggah, but especially on recent albums, it's just alters between atonal nonsense and rhythmic exercises. It seems like these guys forgot that music is supposed to sound good.
Bring on the Neg rep! But seriously don't, pretty please.


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## Leuchty (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm suprised no one said "The Edge".

I mean take away his 247 delay pedals and you're not left with much.


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## Don Vito (Jul 14, 2013)

will_shred said:


> The dude founded 2 genres of metal.


What was the 2nd one? Death weren't the only band playing death metal type music at the time. He alone founded nothing, but substantially helped build it.

Also, I don't think the guys from Dragonforce are overrated. Why? Because they aren't relevant anymore. I hardly ever hear people mention them these days.


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## Metal-Box (Jul 14, 2013)

Datura said:


> Steve vais 'feel' feels cheesy, forced and over the top to me.



His hair during live performances is over the top. Haha. His hair is *always* blowing in some breeze that seems to come from nowhere.


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## rikomaru (Jul 14, 2013)

now that i think about it, it's kinda odd that Vai comes up here. The only people that really know who he is are SOME musicians or fanatics. I honestly don't hear much praise for the man other than in Ibanez circles or groups that happen to have fans in their midst. Generally speaking, trying to have an informed conversation about him is kinda like expecting to walk out of a green day concert and overhear a converstion about MMW. lol based on my experience that doesn't happen as often as it should :/

Now can anyone tell me why Brad Paisley was dubbed the EVH of country?


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## Metal-Box (Jul 14, 2013)

While we are on the topic of Vai. Watch this video without the sound. LOL

The moves and hair are so over the top, I was chuckling hard. And, this is a hardcore Vai fan you are talking to.

The guitar face, my God, the guitar face.


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## trickae (Jul 14, 2013)

wespaul said:


> That's what I said
> Grunge effectively killed heavy metal's popularity in mainstream music.



Just a quick correction to this. Grunge never killed metal as so many of us believe. MTV did. 

Kurt Cobain was never against heavy metal, nor did he want to become famous. His early acoustic stuff shows he was more into lofi/modern folk/manic depressive music. When Smells like teen spirit hit the airwaves in 1994 - that's when MTV picked it up and many copy cat bands sprung up - just like nu metal did for us in highschool. The mainstream just lapped it up as being new and out there. 

if you don't believe me, here's an example. Metallica made a killing in tour sales throughout the 90's. Didn't matter that the radio stopped playing enter sandman halfway through the decade. Load and reload still sold insane amounts and it didn't stop them from performing at the grammy's in 1997. Metallica are second to U2 in tour sales for a major rock band. 

Heavy metal was always underground - the stuff that was getting huge air play wasn't the most technical or groundbreaking music. It was guys with makeup, tight pants and crazy hair that was killing the airwaves. Do you honestly believe Slayer and death got airplay back in the 80's? It would've been motley crue, van halen, Guns and roses and bon jovi.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 14, 2013)

WSchaferJR said:


> Allan Holdsworth: To my ear he sounds awful, the notes he plays just sound like useless dribble. What people describe as unique phrasing just sounds like poor note choice.
> Fredrik Thordendal: I actually like a bit of Meshuggah, but especially on recent albums, it's just alters between atonal nonsense and rhythmic exercises. It seems like these guys forgot that music is supposed to sound good.
> Bring on the Neg rep! But seriously don't, pretty please.




Holdsworth is a true jazz man though, and that's kinda what jazz is about. Sometimes there are notes that almost make you cringe, so I can understand people not liking it.


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## will_shred (Jul 14, 2013)

Don Vito said:


> What was the 2nd one? Death weren't the only band playing death metal type music at the time. He alone founded nothing, but substantially helped build it.
> 
> Also, I don't think the guys from Dragonforce are overrated. Why? Because they aren't relevant anymore. I hardly ever hear people mention them these days.




Death metal with Possessed (obviously) and I really think he at least largely got the technical/progressive death metal ball rolling as well. But didn't necrophagist kind of hit the scene around the same time? Technicalities...


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## trickae (Jul 14, 2013)

Datura said:


> Steve vais 'feel' feels cheesy, forced and over the top to me.



Took me a while to read the thread .... wow big bandwagons in ss.org.

When I speak of feel - its more of groove and note definition, not his facial expression. He has a video of a hundred different bends and ways to bend - while most of us have 3 or 4 ways of pulling it off. Just listen to tender surrender from start to finish, its far harder to get that feel than doing runs up and down the fretboard.


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## Datura (Jul 14, 2013)

trickae said:


> Took me a while to read the thread .... wow big bandwagons in ss.org.
> 
> When I speak of feel - its more of groove and note definition, not his facial expression. He has a video of a hundred different bends and ways to bend - while most of us have 3 or 4 ways of pulling it off. Just listen to tender surrender from start to finish, its far harder to get that feel than doing runs up and down the fretboard.



Thats exactly what I'm talking about in regard to feel.


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## sniperfreak223 (Jul 14, 2013)

as a huge Slayer fan, this one hurts me to admit: Kerry King


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## Don Vito (Jul 14, 2013)

will_shred said:


> Death metal with Possessed (obviously) and I really think he at least largely got the technical/progressive death metal ball rolling as well. But didn't necrophagist kind of hit the scene around the same time? Technicalities...


It depends on what you define as technical/progressive. I certainly don't think the last three Death records fit that bill. They had some progressive elements on Human with Paul's influence, and some odd bass playing on ITP. To me, the last 2 records are melodic death metal with American flavors. Carcass was doing the same thing on Heartwork beforehand. If you want an earlier example than Human on the progressive side, check out Atheist's first album.


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## s4tch (Jul 14, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> Ola writes some monstrous riffs.



Yes, he does. But 1. so does for instance Tommy Victor of Prong, without getting any praise or hype for that, and he does it with style, and for about two decades 2. Ola's riffs are basically all the same 3. he hasn't put together a memorable song so far. Not even one. So he gave us some huge sounding riffs, and that's all. Do some heavy riffs make anyone a guitar god? No.

I find it a bit sad that Ola Englund may be an influence or somebody to follow for a lot of guys. He's a very talented sound engineer, he deserves all credit for his great quality gear demos, but as a guitar player and a songwriter, he's only at the beginning of his road.


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## kchay (Jul 14, 2013)

Kharon said:


> Asking Alexandria have good guitar players... said no one ever haha



Now that I think about it...
HOW THE HELL DID THEY GET SIGNATURE MODELS.


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## fps (Jul 14, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> People saying Buckethead makes me a sad panda.
> 
> Anyway, my vote has to go to Kirk Hammett... and Jimmy Page.



Don't know how anyone could say Buckethead is overrated, barely anyone I know has even heard of him, and he's created so much great diverse music, while being a real stand-out talent, for such a long time.


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## fps (Jul 14, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> I didn't say that 2003 was the last time they played, I said that's when they broke up. Kurt Cobain was super popular too, but became a legend after he died. Dimebag was popular as hell as well, but became a legend after he died. Same with Hendrix, and Morrison and SRV. I'm not saying they don't deserve to be regarded as legends, you're just assuming I meant that was the ONLY reason they're popular and hyped as much as they are. This doesn't mean they weren't great at what they did, but them dying young absolutely plays a part in how popular they were following their deaths. I'm not so much arguing Slayer is heavier as I am arguing that Slayer was doing more to push boundaries earlier than Pantera was imo. This is a pointless argument because our minds won't change, and I don't like arguing with people on SSO because I feel like we're all family here. So I'm sorry if I offended you with anything I said bro! <3



Dimebag was a legend long before he died. Fact.


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

I would name a few or many, because by saying overrated maybe I translate it in my head, for not liking or what's all the fuzz about it.
To me being a musician, at least one aspect of it is to be open to everything, embrace even things you don't like and try to find something "good" in what you listen at the given moment. If you can't find anything then sure, discard it and not look back. But respect it! 
Our times are oozing from information, projection, publicity, networking, etc. Everyday a new kid appears on Youtube doing the craziest lick on the planet, or a new queen diva singer singing like Diana Ross or whatever, I think you get the point. 
I believe this leads to the fact, that we think old players like Hendrix, Page, Blackmore, etc are overrated, cause nowadays their playing, technically at least, is not up to our standards, but that doesn't mean that they don't have other qualities. I am sure there would be some other guy in some other place of the world, that could play like Hendrix but he wasn't at the right spot at the right time and there weren't the means to be known. Same goes for Eddie Van Halen, I am sure there was some other guy doing the tapping thing in his bedroom but Eddie was the lucky one to get famous about it. I just want you to get the idea of my thinking.

When I listen to an instrument player, I aways look for technique but also his/her "feel" and how that player knows to communicate through his instrument. A musician and it's instrument, is a like an extension of your body, a marriage. Who am I to say, but I play just one guitar everyday when it comes to practise and gigging, cause that's the instrument I have bonded with and can communicate better.

I respect past musicians, as much as I respect the musicians of our present and I will continue to respect future musicians, no matter if I like their stuff or not. 

Back to the topic though, I hope I won't get flamed for this but people who have listened to guitar music(shred, blues, jazz include sax and trumpet players in here, whatever) for many years might understand me where this is coming from. 
I find Guthrie Govan, overrated. He is an amazing player, he can pull the wildest licks, he has "feel", the touch, everything a fusion/rock/jazz guitarist would want to have under his fingers. But seriously, I don't get it, I hear so many players in his playing and he has many standard licks he pulls almost all the time, so he gets boring after a while. It's a like a Frankenstein thing of many guitarists stitched together. I REPEAT, that people who have listened to guitar music and in a big range of names through the years, will understand what I am talking about. 
I have this friend, that he's obsessed with the guy, he won't admit anything negative about Govan, he just pulled a frickin' Vai lick/trick, but you have never listened to Steve Vai in your life so you have no idea what I am talking about. 

P.S 1: Please don't flame me for the Govan thing, I like him I just don't get the ecstatic thing about it, and if you think about it most of the admirers can't even alternate pick a major scale as 16th notes at 120bmp!! 
P.S 2: Western Music hasn't evolved much since Miles' Second Great Quintet.
P.S 3: Excuse the long post and the philosophical gibberish.
P.S 4: Rob Chappers is totally overrated and not funny at all, that's a fact!!!!

Thank you,
Mike


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## Lickers (Jul 14, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> this entire thread is about opinions and personal preferences so im not quite sure what you're trying to say there.
> 
> ^ taken from the first post of the thread.
> 
> ...


 
My feelings are irrelevant as I'm looking at this objectively. Which is my point.
Please don't feel I'm making thie personal as there have been other detractors - none have really replied as much as you. I genuinely thought you were being 'controversial' in your earlier post, hence me quoting it.

What I'm trying to say - or more accurately, what I'd hope to see is that people would either give an empricial reason as to why said guitarist was over-rated.
What could be a very interesting topic is currenlty being debased with conjecture and is doing us all no favours at all. I've learned a few new things in this thread and I'd like the opportunity to learn some more.

There's plenty of guitarists that I think aren't up to much in many repsects for a variety of reasons, but they have the requisite ability and quality of output to have garnered the success from the market and more importantly, their peers.
I've not mentioned any guitarists up to this point, purely because I didn't feel there was any real need to. However, as an example...

...I was a huge Metallica fan as a kid (the reason I got into playing in the first place) so have a huge amount of respect for both James and Kirk - moreso James as I identified with his playing and writing abilities more than Kirk. 

As far as I am concerned, both of these are now shadows of their former selves. If they were to break through now, most people wouldn't give them a second look. 
James has oversimplified the core of the songs and his writing and has lost the edge that he had over any other rhythm guitarist/songwriter in the genre. There were some excellent technical moments of the black album but these have been few and far between since then. Load and Reload were especially poor when directly compared to their predecessors.

Kirk has proven to be exceptionally lazy over the years. He is relying on the same technique and approach (especially live) with virtually exclusive use of pentatonics and wah pedal as a filter to mitigate poor fretting and note choice for the last 15 years or so. Even his rhythm playing has taken a step back.
However, I respect the fact they are responsible for some amazing music and performances over the years so I can't wholeheartedly judge them on based on their current output.

AJFA was essentially the last true Metallica record. The intelligence of their compositional ability has very much been diluted which is no doubt a a result of the loss of Cliff (who was very influential and skilled in this area) and appealing to a more mainstream market following the success of their self-titled 'black' album. 
It's a shame, but there's plenty of other good music out there to enjoy and it won't stop me enjoying their earlier work which is rich in excellent music


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## Addison90 (Jul 14, 2013)

JPMike said:


> *I REPEAT, that people who have listened to guitar music and in a big range of names through the years, will understand what I am talking about.
> 
> Please don't flame me for the Govan thing, and if you think about it most of the admirers can't even alternate pick a major scale as 16th notes at 120bmp!!*



I totally respect your opinion.. but this one? 

Below are some quotes from his "admirers":



> * Paul Gilbert: "I miss the days when I was growing up and great guitar playing had a wider appeal. The best guitar players were often in huge bands. I went to see Van Halen play in arenas again and again when I was a kid. Now its little more niche-ified. You've got a guy like Guthrie Govan, whos an amazing guitar player, but hes only known to other guitar players."*
> 
> *Paul Gilbert: Guthrie Govan gives shred a good name. It's absolutely heartwarming to hear someone play super fast and have musical depth to match!"
> 
> ...





WSchaferJR said:


> Allan Holdsworth: *To my ear he sounds awful, the notes he plays just sound like useless dribble*. What people describe as unique phrasing just sounds like poor note choice.



That's like saying the notes that John Coltrane or Michael Brecker plays just sounds like useseless dribble. If you don't like it even a little bit, you probably don't like jazz.


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## drgamble (Jul 14, 2013)

trickae said:


> Just a quick correction to this. Grunge never killed metal as so many of us believe. MTV did.
> 
> Kurt Cobain was never against heavy metal, nor did he want to become famous. His early acoustic stuff shows he was more into lofi/modern folk/manic depressive music. When Smells like teen spirit hit the airwaves in 1994 - that's when MTV picked it up and many copy cat bands sprung up - just like nu metal did for us in highschool. The mainstream just lapped it up as being new and out there.
> 
> ...



Metallica never really made it to radio until they released One. Before that, they absolutely turned down the notion of releasing singles, or videos. It was part of their whole marketing ploy. 

Shortly before Smells Like Teen Spirit came out, you could find Slayer, Testament, Megadeth, Anthrax, etc. on the radio. A lot of those bands were made popular by Headbanger's Ball on MTV. Then the grunge thing came. Kurt Cobain was totally anti-metal and made fun of metal bands in a tongue in cheek sort of way. For the In Utero tour he made fun of the bands with the wall of Marshall's, by making it appear he was playing through a 15w mini stack. I think if you ask all of these metal guys, they will tell you that grunge killed them. No more radio, no MTV. Heck the labels didn't wanna touch them. Metallica survived by completely changing their sound. If they would have put out AJFA in 1991, their career would have been over. Furthermore, grunge didn't kill guitar solos, it changed them. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains still had guitar solos, but they were much shorter and more concise. Nu-Metal is more responsible for the anti-guitar solo crowd. Looking at you Korn and Deftones.


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

Addison90 said:


> I totally respect your opinion.. but this one?



I know, trust me I like his music and everything a lot, but really it gets exaggerating that it becomes annoying. I guess, from a rock/shred/fusion point of view, I might be paranoid. 

But If I see this from another point of view, I might actually be speaking for many people.


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## Carver (Jul 14, 2013)

This Carver guy from canada, he sucks. but yet keeps blasting his stupid amp


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 14, 2013)

JPMike said:


> I know, trust me I like his music and everything a lot, but really it gets exaggerating that it becomes annoying. I guess, from a rock/shred/fusion point of view, I might be paranoid.
> 
> But If I see this from another point of view, I might actually be speaking for many people.



Read what you have put bout him and I would be one of the ones you have been speaking for.... I just don't get it either with him..... possibly it is because he is one of those players that so many people ram down your throat how good he is and how god like he is, and god forbid you don't like him  perhaps its that, I have never liked being told what to do or what to think, I'll make up my own mind, so perhaps I think he is overrated more because of his fans than because of himself.....  Same sort of thing with Nirvana, part of the reason I never liked them was because so many people DID like them and MTV/Music Press/Guitar press kept telling me how I should love them.... just a thought.....


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## Matt_D_ (Jul 14, 2013)

weirds me out people suggesting talented musicians simply because they dont like them. (vai/guthrie/holdsworth/etc).

if you want overrated, I'm going with people who have no musicianship but are somehow famous or revered. 
- the bass player from korn. seriously please just take your tika taka fret noise slappy bullshit and go away and never ever return
- anyone who was ever in oasis


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## JustMac (Jul 14, 2013)

That Bulb guy everyone's wet about. People say he's "brown-jesus", but I don't see the appeal, he hasn't got an inch of the talent the likes of Paul Waggoner or Guthrie Govan. I know Bulb is worshiped here but don't flame my ass for it!

Matt Bellamy from Muse as well....grr!


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Read what you have put bout him and I would be one of the ones you have been speaking for.... I just don't get it either with him..... possibly it is because he is one of those players that so many people ram down your throat how good he is and how god like he is, and god forbid you don't like him  perhaps its that, I have never liked being told what to do or what to think, I'll make up my own mind, so perhaps I think he is overrated more because of his fans than because of himself.....  Same sort of thing with Nirvana, part of the reason I never liked them was because so many people DID like them and MTV/Music Press/Guitar press kept telling me how I should love them.... just a thought.....



Are we the same person or something?  Exactly, my thought. Maybe it's my own reaction to the whole "you can't not like him", "he is like the super guitarist", "he can do whatever he wants with the guitar" thing or whatever. 

I won't argue but the statements that were posted above by well-known players, if seen by other angles, might not be true opinions since they might not want to lose fans or get dissed by fans and guitarists alike. Also, those are statements by rock/"fusion" guitarists. 

What about statements from Modern Jazz Monsters, like Mike Moreno, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Lage Lund, Julian Lage, Ben Monder, Nir Felder, Gillad Heskelman Peter Bernstein, Pat Metheny, John Scofield, George Benson, Allan Holdsworth and the list can go on forever. From players that can actually do whatever they want with the instrument in a frightening extent. What would they say? What would be their true opinion?? That's what I meant by saying seeing this in a different point of view.


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## Chuck (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh it's all irrelevant anyway.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

s4tch said:


> 3. he hasn't put together a memorable song so far.



Someone's never heard Lord's Resistance Army.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jul 14, 2013)

Kiwimetal101 said:


> Jack White.. Just "meh" comes to mind
> 
> Kirk Hammett.. Never liked his solo's, ever
> 
> ...



Pretty good assessment here i agree with alot....allow me to retort/agree
Jack White - Songwriter and thats all, guitarist?? not so much
Hammett - His Kill em all solos i really loved. After that is was certain songs a the later albums - TBA was pretty solid (Struggle Within, Unforgiven, Of Wolf And Man). He definitely gets a ton of extra credit for being in metallica - but he must be doing something right to be a part of it.
King - Totally agree. never heard a slayer solo that sounded much like music really
Misha - haven't heard enough


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## Decapitated666 (Jul 14, 2013)

Misha is overrated. I personally dislike Periphery a whole lot. His riffs are cheesy and irritating. There, I said it. Send the hate mail.


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## Decapitated666 (Jul 14, 2013)

To add to the list:

Abasi
Vai
Buckethead
Malmsteen


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## heregoesnothing (Jul 14, 2013)

People saying Holdsworth & Guthrie overrated makes me sad.. I mean, see my sig  

I studied jazz harmony & composition, I liked them all for different reasons..

EDIT:



Matt_D_ said:


> weirds me out people suggesting talented musicians simply because they dont like them. (vai/guthrie/holdsworth/etc).
> 
> *if you want overrated, I'm going with people who have no musicianship but are somehow famous or revered. *
> - the bass player from korn. seriously please just take your tika taka fret noise slappy bullshit and go away and never ever return
> - anyone who was ever in oasis



This, I think it's unfair to say someone's overrated just because their music is "boring" or "unpleasant" to your ears regardless of their extra-ordinary talent.. we all hear things so differently.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

heregoesnothing said:


> People saying Holdsworth & Guthrie overrated makes me sad.. see my sig



I don't really like their music, but I think they're far from overrated.

Besides on some niche music forums like this one, how often do you see their names brought up?


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## AdenM (Jul 14, 2013)

Curt said:


> He may be one of the better in terms of technique, but most of his work does not interest me.



I totally understand that, thanks for clarifying. Some of his stuff is over my head/forced sometimes, but his technical ability is astounding IMO


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

Matt_D_ said:


> weirds me out people suggesting talented musicians simply because they dont like them. (vai/guthrie/holdsworth/etc).



The two guys besides, Govan, did something very original and still do. Govan has originality but he's not someone that's bringing new stuff in, something we have never heard before. 



heregoesnothing said:


> People saying Holdsworth & Guthrie overrated makes me sad.. I mean, see my sig
> This, I think it's unfair to say someone's overrated just because their music is "boring" or "unpleasant" to your ears regardless of their extra-ordinary talent.. we all hear things so differently.



I never talked about Holdsworth, but I said it about Govan. Referring to someone with his first name, shows me that you actually like the guy's music a lot or him in general. But Metheny and Holdsworth have accomplished and brought so much into the music that Govan can only dream of accomplishing. Don't get me wrong I like Govan's playing and music, but I just don't get it why this mania around his name. I will never get near as good as him regarding my playing and musicianship, he's an amazing musician.


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides on some niche music forums like this one, how often do you see their names brought up?



So true!!


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## wespaul (Jul 14, 2013)

trickae said:


> Just a quick correction to this. Grunge never killed metal as so many of us believe. MTV did.



We can argue this for days. It would be like arguing what kills people, the gun or the bullet. It ultimately doesn't even matter.



trickae said:


> Kurt Cobain was never against heavy metal, nor did he want to become famous. His early acoustic stuff shows he was more into lofi/modern folk/manic depressive music. When Smells like teen spirit hit the airwaves in 1994 - that's when MTV picked it up and many copy cat bands sprung up - just like nu metal did for us in highschool. The mainstream just lapped it up as being new and out there.



When Kurt Cobain was young, he was into heavy metal. In fact, he actually drew the Iron Maiden logo on the wall in his room when he was a teenager. It wasn't until later that he developed a hatred toward it. His first drummer (the name escapes me) had a record collection that had various speed metal records in it that completely pissed Kurt off when he was browsing them. I don't remember if he smashed them (it's been around 16 years since I've read those biographies), or just used it as ammunition to completely screw with the guy (like bull-rushing his drums at a live show). 

But yeah, Kurt definitely wasn't a fan of heavy metal. Their popularity broke in 1991 with "Smells like Teen Spirit", not 1994. MTV was playing that video around the clock because the audience kept calling in requesting it. It was like _nothing_ they'd ever experienced before, or since then. That's why whenever you watch an MTV top 50 or 100 music video list, "Smells like Teen Spirit" is #1 (haven't seen those lists in a while, though).



trickae said:


> if you don't believe me, here's an example. Metallica made a killing in tour sales throughout the 90's. Didn't matter that the radio stopped playing enter sandman halfway through the decade. Load and reload still sold insane amounts and it didn't stop them from performing at the grammy's in 1997. Metallica are second to U2 in tour sales for a major rock band.



The radio still plays "Enter Sandman" to this day, so I'm not sure what you mean with that statement. The Black Album made Metallica a juggernaut that propelled them to Rolling Stones status where they could tour wherever and whenever they want and always have a huge demand.



trickae said:


> Heavy metal was always underground - the stuff that was getting huge air play wasn't the most technical or groundbreaking music. It was guys with makeup, tight pants and crazy hair that was killing the airwaves. Do you honestly believe Slayer and death got airplay back in the 80's? It would've been motley crue, van halen, Guns and roses and bon jovi.



They absolutely were on the radio. You're going to have an underground scene no matter what style of music you're into. Yes, you had your hair metal bands, but you also had your regular metal, and thrash metal on the radio, too. No, they didn't share the same mainstream appeal that Bill Idol had, but they were still out there, and much more prevalent than in the 90s, when Pantera was pushing a new, heavier style of music to the mass audience. 

I grew up in the 80s, and I remember so many people having Iron Maiden patches on their jackets. I also remember seeing tons of Metallica logos carved on tables, and homemade Slayer shirts. The kids were in love with heavy metal. A few years into the 90s, that effectively died. I didn't see anybody wearing Iron Maiden patches, or making their own Slayer shirts. It was like the whole world turned into flannel and Cross Colours orange shorts (which I'm ashamed to admit that I owned a pair ). I wasn't really conscious of the switch, but looking back, it's amazing to see how the landscape changed.


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## blaaargh (Jul 14, 2013)

Chiming in on some of the bigger ones mentioned recently, totally agree with Govan, he's super talented but most of his stuff is just stitching together techniques from different styles/players. King and Hammett have absolutely fallen off, but imo they were never amazing guitarists to begin with. Jack White is one that I don't really agree with, as he's not known for his guitar skills. I'd say the thing he's most known for as a guitarist is taking unconventional sounds and making them work in the context of the song, which is definitely a cool trait that isn't very common in modern guitar playing.

And now here's my contribution... possibly the biggest sacred cow on this forum, but here goes. John Petrucci. Yes, he's a monster player, but he's basically put out the same album for the past 10 years. Im trying, but I really can't remember a single DT riff off the top of my head. Again, not knocking the guys skill at all, just not into his music. Same with Abasi, great player, boring music.


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## tribalfusion (Jul 14, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> Holdsworth is a true jazz man though, and that's kinda what jazz is about. Sometimes there are notes that almost make you cringe, so I can understand people not liking it.




This is some funny stuff. Holdsworth is highly rated by OTHER master musicians. Not by crowds of metal fans or guitarists who don't know anything about harmony (although some of them rate him highly for his obvious physical gifts).

I guess John McLaughlin, Chick Corea, Mike Brecker, Dave Liebman, Tony Williams, Scott Henderson, Jeff Berlin, Kurt Rosenwinkel and on the rock side, EVH, Brett Garsed, Steve Vai, Steve Lukather etc don't know what they are talking about.

Good thing I keep up with metal forums to know Allan has "bad note choices" and is overrated. And jazz is about notes which make you cringe.

Thanks


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## welsh_7stinger (Jul 14, 2013)

For me no skilled guitarist is over ratted as such. But there are bands I've heard on here that in my opinion are over ratted as all hell. I have also heard some people say the guitarists in bands such as asking, parkway, bmth, etc are amazing guitarists. They are good picking hand rhythmic units that is all. A guitarist that is only good at simple rhythm is NOT amazing guitarist.


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## Nats (Jul 14, 2013)

Kirk Hammet. Don't know how the band made it so far with one of the worst guitarists and drummer in the history of music. Really says something about James' monster riffing that carried the band. AJFA is one of my top 5 albums, but every solo that comes on makes me want to cry more than his crybaby wah.


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## sojourner (Jul 14, 2013)

JPMike said:


> Don't get me wrong I like Govan's playing and music, but I just don't get it why this mania around his name. I will never get near as good as him regarding my playing and musicianship, he's an amazing musician.



People like Govan because of different reasons, not because of his originality, his harmonic knowledge or his bebop lines, there are obviously lots of jazz guys who do those things much much better. 

Govan is famous because of his versatility, diversity, being able to adapt in many different musical situations (blues, country, straight bebop, r&b, pop), he's very well rounded in popular music styles... he's very dynamic, his phrasing is recognizable, his vibrato is very expressive, also he's a tip-top teacher. There are some people out there who love versatility, and Govan deserves a lot of credit for doing such a wide variety of things as well as he does.

OT:

Govan is not a jazz guitarist, he's grounded in the blues-rock/classic-rock, and he admit it himself that he never tried to be a jazz guitarist, he is a jack of all trades, not a master of one, so i don't get the comparison between him to true cats like Allan Holdsworth, Bireli, Scofield, Chick Corea, etc...


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## Jakke (Jul 14, 2013)

Tricky subject, and I would have to differentiate between overrated technically, or overrated technique-wise...

Technique:
-Shankle. I actually have genuine hate-mail on my youtube account from the guy. I got this when I suggested his "Demon solo" (or whatever) looked sped up.
-Cobain 

Song-writing:
-Abasi. He's really technical, but he is basically being hailed as "the new Hendrix", which is bullshit. His songs are just not appealing to me, they're pretty boring as a matter of fact.


Other than that, I don't really dislike a lot of guitarists.


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## rikomaru (Jul 14, 2013)

blaaargh said:


> And now here's my contribution... possibly the biggest sacred cow on this forum, but here goes. John Petrucci. Yes, he's a monster player, but he's basically put out the same album for the past 10 years...


 
ahhhhhhhhhshit, it's on now @[email protected]

I don't really see the logic of your statement sir/madame. Not being a fan is somewhat easy to understand, but the same album part is a big  lol

Maybe it seems that way to you because one DT album can be all over the place? Hell, the song Octavarium alone covers a wide spectrum haha

In all honesty though, i suppose our ears are more subjective than we give them credit for. Fandom tends to open our ears to details we simply would miss otherwise. For instance, I generally consider growly (whatever it's called) bands to be a waste of talent since i just can't bring myself to dig monotone grunting and such. To me, it seems to render the sometimes well-crafted music useless. Thus, I never came to like Children of Bodom. However, fans of the group would be able to point out songs with actual singing (assuming there has to be some out there) and maybe even find beauty in small details of the endless gargles that i can't hear.


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## isispelican (Jul 14, 2013)

Before expressing an opinion about Guthrie you should listen to the Erotic Cakes album at least once. I think that a lot of people talk about him without having actually heard his music and thats not how it works, you cant judge guitar players just by watching clips on youtube.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

blaaargh said:


> And now here's my contribution... possibly the biggest sacred cow on this forum, but here goes. John Petrucci. Yes, he's a monster player, but he's basically put out the same album for the past 10 years. Im trying, but I really can't remember a single DT riff off the top of my head. Again, not knocking the guys skill at all, just not into his music.



Before 2003, I would think Petrucci deserved the praise he got. 
After 2003... eh. Lots of boring stuff. Hoping the new album changes my mind. If not, there's always LaBrie's solo work.


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## sojourner (Jul 14, 2013)

isispelican said:


> Before expressing an opinion about Guthrie you should listen to the Erotic Cakes album at least once. I think that a lot of people talk about him without having actually heard his music and thats not how it works, you cant judge guitar players just by watching clips on youtube.




Most 'jazz purists' will find Erotic Cakes laughable, "too shreddy", "harmonically too simple", or "lack of characteristic/originality"


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## s_k_mullins (Jul 14, 2013)

Just my opinion, but I personally think a lot of the classic guitarists are WAY overblown and overrated. They are worshipped and given a "guitar legend" status that I just don't understand, as I've never heard anything from them that impressed or inspired me. But I guess the "classics" just aren't my thing. I'm sure plenty of people think they're the greatest guitarists ever. 

For example... Ace Frehley, Keith Richards, Pete Townshend, Carlos Santana, Brian May, The Edge... And probably lots more that I can't name at the moment. I don't like any of these guitarists or any of the work they've done.

EDIT: All of this is too subjective really. It all comes down to personal taste and opinions. So I guess we really can't call any musician/band overrated, because someone else will think that musician/band is perfect and deserves all the praise and attention.


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## Maniacal (Jul 14, 2013)

Govan could probably play anything if he set his mind to it. I don't see how he is overrated.


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## flexkill (Jul 14, 2013)

Didn't read whole thread but it has to be Carlos Santana!!!



EDIT Oh and that John 5 dude!


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## Chuck (Jul 14, 2013)

sojourner said:


> Most 'jazz purists' will find Erotic Cakes laughable, "too shreddy", "harmonically too simple", or "lack of characteristic/originality"



I would find you "somewhat annoying" and possibly "overly analytic"

I mean seriously this thread is sad. And completely irrelevant.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> I would find you "somewhat annoying" and possibly "overly analytic"


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## heregoesnothing (Jul 14, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> I would find you "somewhat annoying" and possibly "overly analytic".



I think you misunderstood him.. sojourner is actually a fan of Govan, he just hates those 'jazz purists'


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

If I had to choose between being a jack of all trades and a master of one, I would choose the latter. Maybe Govan is an exception of the rule that can actually pull many styles together and actually deliver them. I didn't say I don't like his stuff, it's just people get obsessed with him, like he's the guitar Messiah. 

But really, I have listened Erotic Cakes a few months later after it's release and of course I was blown away back then also I was like 18 years old, loved shred and all that, but you know as people grow and mature realise many things and lean into other styles or genres at the given moment. 
Sorry Isispelican, but your post is too ignorant and generic. I wouldn't speak on the matter by just watching youtube clips. I have seen Govan 2 times live and there were a lot of amazing musical moments. 

I shouldn't have started this Govan thing, I should have kept my mouth shut. I apologise if anyone got pissed or sad or whatever, it was just my opinion.

As for the comparison with some true cats, it was a response to the quotes of some highly rock/fusion guitarists he posted.


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## Chuck (Jul 14, 2013)

heregoesnothing said:


> I think you misunderstood him.. sojourner is actually a fan of Govan, he just hates those 'jazz purists'



Doesn't make his post any less irritating.


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 14, 2013)

I do have to agree with anyone who said Tosin Abasi, at least in terms of song writting. Yes, he is obviously talented and very good at guitar - to deny that is like saying the sky is green - but I really cannot listen to more than 4-5 AAL songs without getting bored. A few songs I can listen to without issue, and some I can listen to half, but when 3/10 songs on an album (I don't know the actual numbers, but that's roughly what it seems like) bore me within 15 seconds, I don't consider your song writing to be very good. Extremely talented player, extremely underwhelming song writing.

Jimi Hendrix falls in with Abasi as well. I'm not going to go into extreme detail but 9/10 songs I've heard by him (by brother has 4 albums with live and studio stuff) were extremely underwhelming considering the hype he gets. I've been hearing the same stupid shit since I was 10: "ERMERGERD HENDRERX ES DER BERST!" For ....s sake he played trippy blues-rock and soloed in an (at the time) very unique way. Yes, his influenced change music forever, but seriously the amount of hype he gets and the amount of wankery I hear in his music is ridiculous. I simply do not get why Hendrix is so popular. I do have to say his more bluesy songs as a hell of a lot better than the cliche best hits ones.

I was also going to agree on Petrucci but it's more Dream Theater that turns me off than him. His solo album is ....ing killer, I love that album, but I just can't stand DT.

Personally, I think Kurt Cobain is the most over rated guitarist and musician in the history of rock. Okay cool, he wrote catchy, heavy rock songs that you can sing along too...that's almost like what EVERY POPULAR ROCK MUSICIAN DOES. I'm not sure how this forum feels about him, but in real life, when I start going on about Cobain, people get EXTREMELY pissed off. Partly because they can't defend the fact he really wasn't that great. He's one of those musicians that probably wouldn't be nearly as famous if they didn't die.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 14, 2013)

I will qualify my holdsworth point; I think jazz is just awful, I don't get it it all.


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## drgamble (Jul 14, 2013)

flexkill said:


> Didn't read whole thread but it has to be Carlos Santana!!!
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT Oh and that John 5 dude!



Now John 5 is overrated? Wow I either don't understand the term overrated or I am a real shit player. I could really say that about most people listed. I don't understand how people can focus in on guys that revolutionized guitar playing or play in a band where songwriting is the focus. Now I'm wondering who everyone thinks is a great guitar player as it is apparent from this thread that most all of my heroes are apparently hacks that can barely play. I guess the only thing impressive is something like Rings of Saturn that is apparently not even real.


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## sojourner (Jul 14, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> Doesn't make his post any less irritating.



I didn't say anything negative about Govan, yet you attack me.. wow

Oh well..



JPMike said:


> If I had to choose between being a jack of all trades and a master of one, I would choose the latter. Maybe Govan is an exception of the rule that can actually pull many styles together and actually deliver them. I didn't say I don't like his stuff, it's just people get obsessed with him, like he's the guitar Messiah.
> 
> I shouldn't have started this Govan thing, I should have kept my mouth shut. I apologise if anyone got pissed or sad or whatever, it was just my opinion.
> 
> As for the comparison with some true cats, it was a response to the quotes of some highly rock/fusion guitarists he posted.



Fine.. i respect your point of view and thanks for the logical reply


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## redskyharbor (Jul 14, 2013)

Guthrie Govan's contribution to The Raven That Refused to Sing proves he can excel in pretty much any style he chooses.

I would have to agree on John Petrucci though, the latest Dream Theater album just sounded like one big theory exercise to me. It didn't feel very inspiring to me personally. I know a lot of people enjoy ragging on Misha because that's the hip thing to do at the minute but from a purely compositional standpoint, in my opinion Racecar trumped pretty much anything on the last few Dream Theater albums. And if you disagree then that's great, because these are all just opinions. 

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence was absolutely killer though.


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## Maniacal (Jul 14, 2013)

Petrucci is overrated. I have never understood the appeal. Boring solos, boring songs. Not as technically brilliant as most people seem to think. 

Bring on the neg reps!


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## Mordacain (Jul 14, 2013)

This thread is kinda funny. I'm guessing it's just an excuse for an opinion bashing fun time? There's certainly no way there could be any quantitative review happening so it would just end up being subjective opinions based on people's tastes and views of what they "think" is interesting or not.


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## Hyacinth (Jul 14, 2013)

tribalfusion said:


> This is some funny stuff. Holdsworth is highly rated by OTHER master musicians. Not by crowds of metal fans or guitarists who don't know anything about harmony (although some of them rate him highly for his obvious physical gifts).
> 
> I guess John McLaughlin, Chick Corea, Mike Brecker, Dave Liebman, Tony Williams, Scott Henderson, Jeff Berlin, Kurt Rosenwinkel and on the rock side, EVH, Brett Garsed, Steve Vai, Steve Lukather etc don't know what they are talking about.
> 
> ...



Woah woah, I wasn't even saying I agreed with that guy. I like Holdsworth, I was just explaining that sometimes in jazz there are notes that are intentionally jarring to produce a certain effect. I didn't say _anything_ about him not knowing what he's doing. Did you mean to quote the other guy? lol


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## spawnofthesith (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beatles



Dream Theater


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## JPMike (Jul 14, 2013)

The last thing, I want to see is this thread turning into an argument or a fight between us. Some agree with each other some others don't. End of story!!


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## Don Vito (Jul 14, 2013)

spawnofthesith said:


> The Beatles


FVK U DUDE!!!1!1! BEATLES IS MY FAV GUITAR PLYR 

U DONT KNO SHIT


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

JPMike said:


> The last thing, I want to see is this thread turning into an argument or a fight between us. Some agree with each other some others don't. End of story!!


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## Dooky (Jul 14, 2013)

I find the conversations around Guthrie Govan quite interesting.
Reasons being that, when I first started getting into guitar playing, I remember people saying how Shawn Lane was _the best _guitarist to have ever lived. I could clearly see that his playing was great, but didnt get what all the fuss was really about. I feel the same way about a couple of other guitarists that people think are _the best_.
Then I discovered Guthrie and I thought he was the bees knees (and I still do). He's an amazing guitar player and he's music and playing really hits the spot with me - and that's just it. Music, & more importantly for this the purposes of this thread, guitar playing, is subjective - not that this is a new concept to any of you, but I think we lose sight of that sometimes. Guthrie uses a lot of guitar techniques that I really like & that are important to me and he does them very well, plus I really like his compositions. 
I love Guthrie's solo album & The Aristocrats and could listen to it all day and I appreciate that other people feel the same way about Shane Lane. Conversely, I appreciate that not everyone is going to think Guthrie is all that great or even that hes overrated. 
Because, at the end of the day, musicianship speaks to us all in different ways.


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## Stealthtastic (Jul 14, 2013)

Can I say Steve Vai and no one get mad?
Ohwell, don't care. 
Steve Vai 

EDIT: didn't read all 9 pages. Anyone say John Mayer yet?


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## Curt (Jul 14, 2013)

Stealthtastic said:


> Can I say Steve Vai and no one get mad?
> Ohwell, don't care.
> Steve Vai
> 
> EDIT: didn't read all 9 pages. Anyone say John Mayer yet?


 

I think John Mayer is a solid blues player, and has some really fun songs.
Would never say he is an amazing guitarist, but he plays tastefully in his choice genre.

I think Vai is another of those players who are solid, and very tasteful.


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## Jakke (Jul 14, 2013)

Curt said:


> I think John Mayer is a solid blues player, and has some really fun songs.
> Would never say he is an amazing guitarist, but he plays tastefully in his choice genre.



He really likes vowels though...


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## Curt (Jul 14, 2013)

Jakke said:


> He really likes vowels though...


 
I'll give you that one. lol


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## Eclipse (Jul 14, 2013)

I think I am overrated.


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## jimwratt (Jul 14, 2013)

Overrated does not mean they aren't praise-worthy. It just means that these are the folks people tend to go overboard on praising. 

That said, my list is as follows:

Petrucci
Satriani
Page
Clapton
Edge
Jack White
Slash
John Mayer
Orianthi (she was videotaped while having blonde hair playing guitar close to Michael Jackson shortly before he died. If she was a brunette, we'd have never heard of her. She's a great player though, but it't not like Entertainment Tonight pays attention to other guitarists of her caliber and beyond.)
Cooley
MAB
Santana
Beck

All of those players (except Jack White and the Edge), are great players and deserve a lot of the attention and praise they get...just not quite all of it. It's no biggie. Most of that extra hype is to pay their bills more so than anything else.

As for folks saying Misha and Abasi overrated. I think you guys might be spending too much time on these forums and Youtube comment sections. If anything, they are VASTLY underrated. They're doing a lot to keep creativity as a central ethic of rock music and I wish they had a broader influence in other genres.


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## Don Vito (Jul 14, 2013)

They're getting featured in Guitar World every so often. I think Tosin made the cover once.

They're not limited to this forum and Youtube anymore, although it still makes up the majority of listeners.


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## jimwratt (Jul 14, 2013)

Bootsy Collins, jk

What I think most people here would agree with though is that there are a ton of artists what are underrated who we would like to hear more from. 

Also, we should all be clear that momentary popularity is not the same thing as being overhyped. Overhyping, in my mind, is a more sustained thing. Of course everybody is gonna freak over Abasi and Misha, they're new. They did the same thing over Herman Li a few years back and while he still has a presence, he seems to have been overtaken. Guitar World is kind of like a hard copy of a forum anyway these days.


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## Sverdugo (Jul 14, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> As for folks saying Misha and Abasi overrated. I think you guys might be spending too much time on these forums and Youtube comment sections. If anything, they are VASTLY underrated. They're doing a lot to keep creativity as a central ethic of rock music and I wish they had a broader influence in other genres.



I whole heartedly agree. Perhaps amongst seven and eight stringers around their forums and circles the Bulb and Abasi circle jerking can get so intense that others find the praise to be too great, but in the scope of all guitarists, I feel like they're not even really that known.


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## pink freud (Jul 14, 2013)

In my mind any guitarist who plays for the music of the band isn't "overrated." I'm striving to stop viewing musicians in a vacuum separate from the band.


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## edsped (Jul 14, 2013)

isispelican said:


> Before expressing an opinion about Guthrie you should listen to the Erotic Cakes album at least once. I think that a lot of people talk about him without having actually heard his music and thats not how it works, you cant judge guitar players just by watching clips on youtube.



I actually like Guthrie despite his music. I haven't listened to much of the Aristocrats stuff but Erotic Cakes never really did much for me. I love watching videos of him do improv though.


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## Dooky (Jul 14, 2013)

*This:*


jimwratt said:


> My list is as follows:
> Petrucci
> Satriani
> Page.



*+ This:*


jimwratt said:


> As for folks saying Misha and Abasi overrated. If anything, they are VASTLY underrated. They're doing a lot to keep creativity as a central ethic of rock music and I wish they had a broader influence in other genres.


*Does not make sense*


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm seeing a lot of people being up MAB...

Does anyone actually praise him? When I see people bring him up, 90% of the time it's about the double-neck or quad-neck guitar.


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## blaaargh (Jul 14, 2013)

RagtimeDandy said:


> I was also going to agree on Petrucci but it's more Dream Theater that turns me off than him. His solo album is ....ing killer, I love that album, but I just can't stand DT.



Its not just DT. Liquid Tension Experiment is ....ing unlistenable. Ill admit I haven't heard his solo stuff but based on his other output I'm highly doubtful I'd enjoy it.


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## kchay (Jul 15, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> I would find you "somewhat annoying" and possibly "overly analytic"
> 
> I mean seriously this thread is sad. And completely irrelevant.



This.

I thought this was heavily an opinion based thing anyways.
Which means looking at someone's opinion of an "overrated player" shouldn't really affect you, no?


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## Don Vito (Jul 15, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When I see people bring him up, 90% of the time it's about the double-neck or quad-neck guitar.


Or his haircut.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 15, 2013)

^ Who's he foolin' with that wig?


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## edsped (Jul 15, 2013)

Anyone who doesn't like Petrucci, listen to Images and Words and the To Live Forever jam on Live in Tokyo. Or just listen to the Under a Glass Moon solo.


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## Workhorse (Jul 15, 2013)

Nats said:


> Kirk Hammet. Don't know how the band made it so far with one of the worst guitarists and drummer in the history of music. Really says something about James' monster riffing that carried the band. AJFA is one of my top 5 albums, but every solo that comes on makes me want to cry more than his crybaby wah.



Hammett has a few decent solos, I thought the stuff he did on fade to black and master of puppets was pretty cool, at the time it was amazing because no one was doing what he did. Same thing with Lars Ulrich (who btw, brought a ton of new stuff into metal that no one else did, just listen to Fight Fire with Fire. 

Chances are, many guitarists aren't that 'skilled', or may not have had crazy emotion, this is true for composers as well, not just stringed instruments. Kirk Hammett got a bit lucky, he did his part well enough and was part of a band that revolutionized metal, made it fast, and then made it cool to be slow again. 

I really don't understand a lot of the complaining here. Chances are Jimi Hendrix would be a mediocre guitar player now (with awesome sound though), but the point is what a guitarist brought to the music some 30 years ago that wasn't around.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

What was Kirk Hammett doing that was so special?


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## Hyacinth (Jul 15, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> What was Kirk Hammett doing that was so special?



Basically just being taught by Joe Satriani.


----------



## tribalfusion (Jul 15, 2013)

MatthewLeisher said:


> Woah woah, I wasn't even saying I agreed with that guy. I like Holdsworth, I was just explaining that sometimes in jazz there are notes that are intentionally jarring to produce a certain effect. I didn't say _anything_ about him not knowing what he's doing. Did you mean to quote the other guy? lol




I'm glad you like Allan...sorry if there was a mix up and I do think it was the other guy to whom I was directing my comments primarily.

Thanks


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## wespaul (Jul 15, 2013)

I liked Kirk's lead work on the 80s albums. There was fast pentatonic stuff on KEA and cool modal stuff on the others. He brought a lot of people to the instrument, and I think part of his appeal was that his leads sounded cool, but weren't really that difficult, which allowed him to be a gateway of sorts to people who soaked the band up and moved on to others. I think that's special in its own right.


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## Workhorse (Jul 15, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> im completely serious, iv got friends that are massive pantera and dime fans but his playing has never impressed me and his tone is absolute garbage. Chuck and Dime have both written a cool riff here and there but i still dont see why they are regarded so highly.



Dime's tone is absolute garbage? To each his own. I thought a lot of his solos sounded incredible, The Sleep, Cemetary Gates, 10's, Floods, Revolution Is my Name (just a few) sounded really great. Not to mention, his riffs kicked ass. I think if you don't see what the deal is with Dimebag, you must not be paying attention to the 90's.


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## GRUNTKOR (Jul 15, 2013)

RagtimeDandy said:


> Jimi Hendrix falls in with Abasi as well. I'm not going to go into extreme detail but 9/10 songs I've heard by him (by brother has 4 albums with live and studio stuff) were extremely underwhelming considering the hype he gets. I've been hearing the same stupid shit since I was 10: "ERMERGERD HENDRERX ES DER BERST!" For ....s sake he played trippy blues-rock and soloed in an (at the time) very unique way. Yes, his influenced change music forever, but seriously the amount of hype he gets and the amount of wankery I hear in his music is ridiculous. I simply do not get why Hendrix is so popular. I do have to say his more bluesy songs as a hell of a lot better than the cliche best hits ones.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrWYD0-aiIs

this is his best album in my opinion, not wanky at all and very eclectic in styles. The guy was only 24 when he made this record too...


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## Workhorse (Jul 15, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> What was Kirk Hammett doing that was so special?



Hammett played nice lead bits on heavy songs, thats basically what it was. He never stood out himself, but was part of a bigger machine that gave him room to express himself without taking over.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Dime's tone is absolute garbage?



To some of us, yeah, his early tone was garbage. Thin, fizzy, extremely sharp and sounded like it barely cut through the mix. It got better over time when he switched to the Century and Warhead amps and discovered the mid knob, but it still wasn't anything to write home about.

He's not the person I think of when I think of good tones from a Randall RG. I thought others like Kirk Windstein and George Lynch got better tones.


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## tribalfusion (Jul 15, 2013)

So I usually avoid this sort of thread (I just noticed the Holdsworth comments and couldn't restrain myself) but I see Govan coming up so often in here that I thought I would post a little bit about him from the perspective of fusion/jazz players of which I am one though I do like and play rock a lot (it isn't my primary focus however) and I come on here to hear about things I might otherwise miss in the rock or metal world.

For people who primarily play rock or metal Govan's way of playing "jazz" or "fusion" is very different for those who hear harmony with a bit more precision like let's say like those who play over changes habitually. This was alluded to earlier in the thread and I thought I would point this out as well.

I don't like calling musicians overrated and Govan can do many things well and deserves much credit for this, but he is not by any stretch of the imagination someone a good changes player would take seriously when he plays over more involved harmony. 

To the extent that people in this very thread are saying Govan can play anything...well I suppose it's as good a place as any to point out that he can't or at least not very well. Not even close actually. This is no shame and warrants a comment mostly because with certain rock guitarists of a technical bent, far too much is claimed for them when they play pretty ham fisted solos over jazzy-ish pieces which would get them a lot of criticism from say a good university level player, much less someone like Pat Metheny or Scott Henderson. Players like Pat or Scott try hard to avoid saying these things publicly however or even from seeming to be too harsh when asked at GIT or Berklee say about this for obvious reasons.

Again, I would never suggest listening to Govan for this (not his strength) but the problem (if one wants to call it tht) is that with players like Shawn Lane and Govan, when they DO play such things they tend to portray themselves as being a lot more competent than they actually are, usually playing very fast sequences with poor rhythm over the harmony such that their fans (who are generally even less competent in the discernment of such things) tend to trumpet them as great jazz fusion players who are playing "advanced" etc.

They aren't and that's why those players aren't really taken seriously in those domains. It has nothing to do with being snobbish and there are players in rock who actually address chord changes more elegantly shall we say and fudge a lot less but who are much more upfront about not really being good changes players (Brett Garsed or Eric Johnson come to mind) like the fusion or jazz players they admire which is something I have never seen Govan or Lane say in the many interviews I have seen. On the contrary; they tend to bite off more than they can chew by playing pieces that are beyond their changes playing ability such that they have to bluff through them by playing fast chromatic or pattern oriented finger movements and can not spend much mental energy on call and response interaction with the band.

I want to stress that I am not critiquing all of what they do by any means but thought this might be the right place to point this out.

Thanks


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 15, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Dime's tone is absolute garbage? To each his own. I thought a lot of his solos sounded incredible, The Sleep, Cemetary Gates, 10's, Floods, Revolution Is my Name (just a few) sounded really great. Not to mention, his riffs kicked ass. I think if you don't see what the deal is with Dimebag, you must not be paying attention to the 90's.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To some of us, yeah, his early tone was garbage. Thin, fizzy, extremely sharp and sounded like it barely cut through the mix. It got better over time when he switched to the Century and Warhead amps and discovered the mid knob, but it still wasn't anything to write home about.


pretty much that^


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

I do think Dimebag is a good player and wrote some awesome riffs, but his tone is pretty much the stereotypical "gain at 10, mids at 0" metal tone.


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## GRUNTKOR (Jul 15, 2013)

I reckon Pantera sounds best when you listen to it as a whole. The bass is generally pretty middy and grindy and helps it all work together when the guitar is scooped to hell and back...


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## Workhorse (Jul 15, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To some of us, yeah, his early tone was garbage. Thin, fizzy, extremely sharp and sounded like it barely cut through the mix. It got better over time when he switched to the Century and Warhead amps and discovered the mid knob, but it still wasn't anything to write home about.
> 
> He's not the person I think of when I think of good tones from a Randall RG. I thought others like Kirk Windstein and George Lynch got better tones.



I hold his stuff in high regard, I think Dimebag was a great writer, he wrote some of the best riffs and some of the most memorable solos. Is he like some of the giants in this forum? No, but he was the best at what he did. I like his tone a lot, it's not for everyone - thats just how music is (I can't stand a lot of the things people praise around here). Some of the stuff he did sounded a little overwhelming, but I can see why he's so influential, being a 90's kid, Dimebag was the man.


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## donray1527 (Jul 15, 2013)

JoesphAOI and I talked to Misha from periphery about this thread tonight at a periphery show and he said he was actually glad that some people think that he is overated. He sai that he's glad to be seen as overated because pretty much all his heros were listed here too.


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## Workhorse (Jul 15, 2013)

donray1527 said:


> JoesphAOI and I talked to Misha from periphery about this thread tonight at a periphery show and he said he was actually glad that some people think that he is overated. He sai that he's glad to be seen as overated because pretty much all his heros were listed here too.



I don't see how he is overrated, he's doing stuff no one is doing. He's not the technical virtuoso some people imagine him to be, but he's extremely talented and still very young. Best of luck to him!


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## Don Vito (Jul 15, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> he's doing stuff no one is doing


bojangles


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## Malkav (Jul 15, 2013)

tribalfusion said:


> Big wall o text


 
I think firstly I'd like to thank you for wording that the way you did, in past some of your posts, especially when teamed up with Tresspass, have been needlessly inflamatory and in this your point comes across well without the tones I had taken issue with on prior occasions 

That being said I can understand where you're coming from regarding Lane and Govan, but at the same time they've never claimed to be brilliant at playing changes and simply not touching on a subject isn't an admission of ability. Regarding Shawn Lane, I think the rabbit hole runs a lot deeper there than a lot of people think, I truly think he was a freak capable of doing whatever he put his mind to, but I don't believe he was trying to pander to the jazz crowd and as such tended to take a more rock approach, with a little showmanship thrown in there, cause at the end of the day I'm sure these guys realise part of their appeal is the playing fast thing - I mean he was SO much more than that in everyway, and he was never wealthy, but bills have to be paid and occasionally he would do things I considered somewhat unnecesary, like the giant diminished shredfest at the end of "Not Again".

With regards to the timing thing, I also don't think swing was really his thing in that sense, but how many people who play swing would adapt so well to playing in the Carnatic musical forms he was exploring with Hellborg? It really seems like comparing apples to oranges to me in that respect. I had a huge interest in the Carnatic thing, even made a fretless nylon string to explore it further with the right freedoms regarding pitch for the various ragas, and in a weird turn of events I've now joined a band that plays swing, but focusing more on the Gypsy jazz kinda swing ala Django Reinhardt and it's been really interesting cause I'm approaching it as this Rock/Metal/Ihesitatetousethewordfusion guitar player with a Carnatic interest, and the violin player in our band is a swing player or is at least competent at it, and as naturally happens we have been showing each other stuff from our fields of interest, and of course I'm having one or two teething issues to work through regarding swing, and he's experiencing the same thing regarding Carnatics - Then again we may both just be shit 

There is one point I will fight you on however, and don't get me wrong cause I like Eric Johnson's music, but I saw him in a fusion setting playing proper fusion with Oz Noy and it was pretty weak from a changes and timing perspective in my opinion.

All that being said this whole thread is pretty subjective and realistically if you want to get nit picky you can find fault with absolutely any guitarist/musician - It's actually really easy to do, perhaps it would be an interesting idea to get people to list their favourite guitarists and then point out an aspect of their favourite guitarists playing that could actually be improved, not to be negative but to see if you can empathise with people who may not resonate with your favourite musician the way you do, and thus gain understanding.

That being said, any guitar player who has an underdeveloped vibrato when they otherwise have good chops is immediately over-rated to me.

Oh and Henry Kaiser...I just don't get that guy...I'm not even sure if he actually knows how to play guitar or has just been holding one of the worlds longest running cons...


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## silent suicide (Jul 15, 2013)

Dream Theater
Children of bodom
Any black metal band out there
But this is just my humble opinion, which no one should care for


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## JustMac (Jul 15, 2013)

WSchaferJR said:


> I will qualify my holdsworth point; I think jazz is just awful, I don't get it it all.



I thought like that at one point, but it was actually just my own total ignorance of an entire genre.But my problem was I just felt my ears/mind were never mature enough to feel anything when I heard crazy jazz sax players. I always thought it was neat, but nothing for me to actually "enjoy" on any serious level. I just assumed all jazz sounded just like Bitches Brew. I've always been obsessed with melody, so the dissonant cadences of jazz and non-diatonic harmony confused the hell out of me.

But then I discovered guys like Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass and Jim Hall, and now it's clear how vast the genre is. Although Holdsworth and Montgomery are both jazz guys, they come from extremely different schools of thought. You just need to find the kind you dig. Please check out these and see if you even like one of em 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkinLvUrUYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOm17yw__6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjsJQ4EYRNM


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## flexkill (Jul 15, 2013)

Let me remind you all something about Jimi Hendrix....His setup he was making all of that groundbreaking music and unearthly heavenly tones on was not an AXFX! It took extreme talent and skill to tame that beast of a rig he played on and I bet 50% of the people on this forum could not make half the joyful sound Hendrix did on that setup. Look up his setup man....Hendrix was a GOD!!!!!

EDIT: Also...I look at Hendrix as the Michael Jordan of guitar! There was no one playing basketball the way MJ was until he came along. Now we see many players playing like MJ and even beyond....does this not still make MJ great. Same with Jimi Hendrix.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jul 15, 2013)

wespaul said:


> I liked Kirk's lead work on the 80s albums. There was fast pentatonic stuff on KEA and cool modal stuff on the others. He brought a lot of people to the instrument, and I think part of his appeal was that his leads sounded cool, but weren't really that difficult, which allowed him to be a gateway of sorts to people who soaked the band up and moved on to others. I think that's special in its own right.



Agree, i know some people would dismiss Kill Em All as "those pentatonic solos" but remember it was '82-'83. The fact is, those solos fit perfectly with those songs. In particular, the last break solo in Phantom lord where the band drops out always gets me throwing the horns!!! The breakdown in four horsemen with harmony 2nd guitar (it's there, listen) that they never play live? Awesome! I remember bring my pot smoke wreaking cherry lane kill em all book to my lesson and having my guitar teacher teach me this stuff when i was 16.

fan boy? probably, but for a reason. Those solos got my gut going, and isn't that what it's all about?


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## the_heretic_divine (Jul 15, 2013)

mcsalty said:


> not trying to start a shitstorm; but at the risk of getting neg-repped to the depths of hell, i'd have to say Dimebag.


This. I've been saying it for years. So many "metal" musicians look at me like I have two f**king heads,because I'm not afraid to admit that I was never a fan of Dimebag,and his playing had absolutely NO influence on me,whatsoever. Not saying he wasn't a good guitarist...just not my thing.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Jul 15, 2013)

The guys from Avenged Sevenfold, Slash, EVH, Kirk Hammet, Kerry King, Petrucci, Tony Iommi, and my personal least favorite guitar player ever, Jimmy Page.


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 15, 2013)

Not read the whole thread so not sure if he come up but I def think Rusty Cooley is hyper overrated, again I am free to admit it may be me hating coz of the fanboy's but he just personifies that guitar w*nking for the sake of it approach to guitar that I cannot bare. The guy has technique for days and is a monster but musically he is poor. You compare him to someone like Becker who has more technique than any human being should have on the guitar BUT most importantly he uses that to produce some outstandingly beautiful music, Cooley to me uses his to play "How many notes can I play in theses 16 bars? Well hang on to your hats girls!!! Here I go!!!!!!!!"  

In a word, he is musically dull imo


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## AhsanU (Jul 15, 2013)

I think I should clarify something just for the sake of clarification:

Overrated =/= skillful.

While many may believe that a guitarist was skillful, they may also believe that he/she wasn't as good as their popularity made them out to be. I do agree with a few of you, but you do need to remember that people like Hendrix, Page, Iommi, EVH, etc. did start a revolution and/or pioneer something. I personally feel it's impossible to really call the big names in rock/metal history as overrated because for all you know your favourite bands may have been influenced by them, even if you weren't.


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## Maniacal (Jul 15, 2013)

Cooley is a shredder. He _was_ extremely good at shredding so I don't see how he is overrated.


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> EDIT: Also...I look at Hendrix as the Michael Jordan of guitar! There was no one playing basketball the way MJ was until he came along. Now we see many players playing like MJ and even beyond....does this not still make MJ great or the greatest????. Same with Jimi Hendrix.



Great? Sure, why not. Greatest? No, absolutely no. Greatest is an irrelevant superlative. We're talking about music, not computers, not TVs, not cars - it's 100% subjective. You can compare guitarists on various criteria and determine the greatest in that category for X reason, but there is no greatest guitarist ever, and anyone claiming such is quite simply fanboying. 

My point though with Hendrix was that he brought a whole new perspective to rock and blues guitar, as well as to soloing as a whole; however, that does not make him the greatest by any measure. I am strongly of the opinion that he is extremely over rated and over hyped for the type of music he put out within the context of the new millennium. In the 60's, I guarantee that I'd think he was god himself with a guitar, but this is 2013 and the playing field is far too vast. Hendrix was clearly great in his day, hence why I still have to be inundated by people with 1 year of playing under their belt losing their minds when I say Hendrix really isn't that special any more. If there's one thing I CAN NOT stand, it's people with classic rock taste preaching to me how some guy from 50 years ago is still the greatest thing on two feet. Going along with the sports analogy, there's simply too many top level athletes, too much technology and research for me to get hung up on one guy from 50 years ago who is definitely on the same skill level as 20 other guys in the present day. 

The other issue is that at the time, Hendrix wasn't in an over saturated market - you had him and a few other guys/bands and that's it. They all got massive fan bases because of how limited the options were in comparison today. I guarantee if you somehow got Hendrix into today's musical market, there's a good chance he wouldn't even get a chance, and if he did he wouldn't have remotely the amount of success he had.

My main point:
Just because he's a "classic" doesn't mean he's the greatest. Also, being a classic doesn't make you exempt from criticism or critique.


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## lettsbasses (Jul 15, 2013)

Narciso Yepes. Bag of shite.


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 15, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Cooley is a shredder. He _was_ extremely good at shredding so I don't see how he is overrated.



Being a shredder has nothing to do with why I think that, Becker and Gilbert and Friedman were all amazing shredders but unlike Cooley they "shredded" with a purpose.... I think he is overrated in the fact that he is a one trick pony to me and has nothing to say musically for all his skills, just my opinion. Like saying you can do a thousand kick ups with a football all behind your head and sh1t but the moment you step on the field to play an actual game, you suck, so what's the point in all your skills if you can't play the game?? Skills need a purpose to be worth while

I would def second AhsanU, just because someone on here says that Player A is overrated is not to necessarily mean they are disrespecting the talent or skills.... As I said in a previous post, its the overrated tag for me applies when a certain player is suddenly the new fanboy/press/forum favourite and I am TOLD that I have to be in to him or her or TOLD how amazing they are, I'll make up my own mind and if I don't like them then I don't like them, not coz they are talentless but coz they are not for me, I just resent being "told" who my new favourite guitarist "should" be


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## flexkill (Jul 15, 2013)

RagtimeDandy said:


> I guarantee if you somehow got Hendrix into today's musical market, there's a good chance he wouldn't even get a chance, and if he did he wouldn't have remotely the amount of success he had.


And there is also a good chance that if there was never a Jimi Hendrix, the guitar players that you put on a pedestal today never pick up the instrument therefore never exist. That alone makes him GREAT!  Jimi made the electric guitar famous, mysterious, and sexy. He is the original electric Guitar God! You take all of the guitar players in the world and ask them to name the ONE guitarist that most influenced them and the answer by a large margin will be Jimi....sorry that is just the way it is.

Greats like Vai, Satch, and even shredders acknowledge Hendrix's place in guitar supremacy....hardly one year players.

I understand being tired of hearing his name mentioned whenever this subject comes up....but to deny him his credit due is absurd.


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## donray1527 (Jul 15, 2013)

Well whoever neg repped me without signing it is real mature. 

Anyways....

But even though I am a huge fan of JP, I think dream theatre is one of the most overrated bands out there.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> And there is also a good chance that if there was never a Jimi Hendrix, the guitar players that you put on a pedestal today never pick up the instrument therefore never exist.



Hell of an assumption... If Jimi hadn't done it someone else would have... And even if he didn't, that doesn't mean that the folks today playing wouldn't have still picked up guitar... It just means they might not play the same way they do and people would like something else instead... 

Besides that it seems like some folks need to calm down... How can you get so mad about someone not liking a guitarist you like as if they're talking about you directly? Simma down y'all!


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## pink freud (Jul 15, 2013)

donray1527 said:


> But even though I am a huge fan of JP, I think dream theatre is one of the most overrated bands out there.



Keep things in perspective, Dream Theater is barely known to anybody who is farther than one degree of separation from a musician. Their best known song is over 20 years old now.


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## donray1527 (Jul 15, 2013)

pink freud said:


> Keep things in perspective, Dream Theater is barely known to anybody who is farther than one degree of separation from a musician. Their best known song is over 20 years old now.



Well at least they are in our community lol


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Hell of an assumption... If Jimi hadn't done it someone else would have... And even if he didn't, that doesn't mean that the folks today playing wouldn't have still picked up guitar... It just means they might not play the same way they do and people would like something else instead...



My own thoughts exactly. If there wasn't Hendrix it'd be someone else, you're viewing this all in an unchangeable vacuum. Obviously what I was saying isn't reality, but it's still a valid and reasonable inference.



donray1527 said:


> Well whoever neg repped me without signing it is real mature.
> 
> Anyways....
> 
> But even though I am a huge fan of JP, I think dream theatre is one of the most overrated bands out there.



That's pretty lame, we're obviously having a touchy discussion in this thread but no need to take stuff so personally. People have been crapping on guitarists I love, I haven't even bothered addressing it though as I realize people are of different OPINIONS. It's just musical opinions people, don't take it too seriously.


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## flexkill (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Hell of an assumption... If Jimi hadn't done it someone else would have


I agree, but it WAS Jimi....so yeah........if had been someone else than they would be the original guitar God 

I mean do we think less of someones accomplishments because...."someone would of done it anyway"???

By that thinking, why do we praise any of the great thinkers break throughs in Science or whatever....I mean after all...sooner or later someone would of thought of it anyway, right?

To me there is something said of those who think of it first.


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## Stijnson (Jul 15, 2013)

I see alot of names in the thread I personally don't consider great to begin with, so I can't call them overrated either. Synyster gates haha, who actually 'rates' him being good??!? Anyway on my list would be Kirk Hammet and Slash. Kirk has some good solos, but then again, lots of guitarists do, but his style and always the same licks bore the crap out of me, and stop with the Wah pedal! Same goes for Slash, boring stuff, just can't listen to it, and people who I assume don't play guitar at all love him as a guitarist. It's all image with him. Zakk Wylde kind of the same thing, but he makes up for it to me by having an awesome vibrato.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

I don't think we should put accomplishments on the pedestals we do in general. But that's a different discussion. This kinda stuff always just sounds like dick riding to me and I'm not much into all the, "Nuh uh! Jimi did it first!" bullshit. I'm sure that's why they went through the trouble to write all those songs so ppl could sit around arguing ab dumb shit...


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## protest (Jul 15, 2013)

I admit I didn't read very far into this thread, but I feel like a lot of people in here that are lacking a historical perspective. 

The art of playing guitar has progressed a lot throughout the years, in large part to a lot of the musicians some are saying are overrated. Just because something seems simplistic now doesn't mean it wasn't forward thinking when it came out. There's also a lot more to playing than sheer technical skill and speed.

Think about it like this. What was an awesome video game you remember from when you were a kid? How does it compare nowadays to the graphics of a PS4? Does that really make it less of an awesome game?


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## flexkill (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I don't think we should put accomplishments on the pedestals we do in general. But that's a different discussion. This kinda stuff always just sounds like dick riding to me and I'm not much into all the, "Nuh uh! Jimi did it first!" bullshit. I'm sure that's why they went through the trouble to write all those songs so ppl could sit around arguing ab dumb shit...


Well I was responding to your post....so I thought you had a point other than "this topic is stupid"  

You know I love ya man


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## jbab (Jul 15, 2013)

Synyster Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> best known for being the lead trombonist of the band Avenged Sevenfold





> He has appeared with many different styles of his Schecter blender





> he got a booty call from The Rev asking him if he wanted to "join his band"


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> Well I was responding to your post....so I thought you had a point other than "this topic is stupid"
> 
> You know I love ya man



I just find it odd that ppl are so obsessed with things like who did it first. I'm just glad advancements were made to allow me the freedom I enjoy today... Musically and otherwise.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I just find it odd that ppl are so obsessed with things like who did it first. I'm just glad advancements were made to allow me the freedom I enjoy today... Musically and otherwise.



I agree with this, unless we're talking Meshuggah or At the Gates. They did it first! I swear!


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## flexkill (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I just find it odd that ppl are so obsessed with things like who did it first. I'm just glad advancements were made to allow me the freedom I enjoy today... Musically and otherwise.


Ah yes and I agree.






































































BUT JIMI DID IT FIRST!!!!!!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I just find it odd that ppl are so obsessed with things like who did it first. I'm just glad advancements were made to allow me the freedom I enjoy today... Musically and otherwise.



I guess it's people being upset about a pioneering musician being taken for granted. 

I mean, people may not like Keith Richards or Jimi Hendrix, but they helped popularize distorted amps and effect pedals.


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## zero_end (Jul 15, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Not read the whole thread so not sure if he come up but I def think Rusty Cooley is hyper overrated, again I am free to admit it may be me hating coz of the fanboy's but he just personifies that guitar w*nking for the sake of it approach to guitar that I cannot bare. The guy has technique for days and is a monster but musically he is poor. You compare him to someone like Becker who has more technique than any human being should have on the guitar BUT most importantly he uses that to produce some outstandingly beautiful music, Cooley to me uses his to play "How many notes can I play in theses 16 bars? Well hang on to your hats girls!!! Here I go!!!!!!!!"
> 
> In a word, he is musically dull imo




Exactly what I think about Jordan Rudess.


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## fwd0120 (Jul 15, 2013)

I would have to say Plini, Frank Dremel, and Sithu Aye.


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## C2Aye (Jul 15, 2013)

fwd0120 said:


> I would have to say Plini, Frank Dremel, and Sithu Aye.



The fact that someone has called me overrated has made me so happy


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

C2Aye said:


> The fact that someone has called me overrated has made me so happy



Welcome to stardom. Your truck of cocaine is in the garage.


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## BusinessMan (Jul 15, 2013)

Syn gates, Kirk hammet. Please don't kill me.


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## prh (Jul 15, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Welcome to stardom. Your truck of cocaine is in the garage.



can i just get a bag of crack to go?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

prh said:


> can i just get a bag of crack to go?



Those are only for people at a Mark Holcomb level of stardom. Sorry.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 15, 2013)

prh said:


> can i just get a bag of crack to go?


 
You may. But you're too overrated so you get a yacht and Morrocan boy slaves with your bag.


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## PyramidSmasher (Jul 15, 2013)

I want to say Misha Mansoor but I feel like it will be taken the wrong way. He's a good player, but the way many dudes act about him is down right creepy...


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 15, 2013)

silent suicide said:


> Any black metal band out there



since when did black metal start getting huge amounts of praise?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 15, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> since when did black metal start getting huge amounts of praise?



I think he just hates them.


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## donray1527 (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks for the counter rep guys. 

Anyways I forgot about this guy earlier... Andy James. (Go easy on me lol)


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## JohnIce (Jul 15, 2013)

Wow, 12 pages of Comic Book Guy 

I find that dwelling on what kind of music I _don't_ like is, for myself as a musician, a complete waste of energy. And that anyone who's had any success in the business (let alone the huge names that have been mentioned in this topic) did so by being very, very appreciated. By someone, doesn't have to be me.

My contribution to the list would be to say there are plenty of players who clearly didn't make an effort to make ME like their music, and that's cool. They would most likely not enjoy my music either


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## avinu (Jul 16, 2013)

Gah this thread makes me want to quit playing guitar.


----------



## trickae (Jul 17, 2013)

lol relax - no ones bagging out the skill these players have, just the excessive amounts of hype they get. 

Honestly just to clear up a couple of things because I'm too lazy to quote a hundred posts, 

1. Kirk Hammet - He is overated, partly because he's become lazy since ..And Justice for All. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve any fame, he was every mainstream metal fans introduction to lead guitar. He didn't have to be overly technical, just make memorable leads. Remember these guys were kids when kill 'Em All and Ride the Lightning came out. With basic gear and very little learning material out there, they wrote some epic riffs and leads

2. James Hetfield - Without his monster riffing and insane stage presence, metallica wouldn't be where they are today. In terms of riffs, how varied and epic were most of their riffs? It was hard to find two songs that sounded alike (except for fade to black and One). Stage presence, if you compare him to Dave Mustaine who just stands in one spot, james Hetfield is one of the few frontmen/Rhythm guitarists that tears it up on stage. 

3. John Petrucci - Yes I too think he's overrated. I hate his solos, but his riff work and technical prowess is amazing. One of my favorite albums of all time is Metropolis part II, but unfortunately nothing has come close to that album ever since.


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## gunch (Jul 17, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> im completely serious, iv got friends that are massive pantera and dime fans but his playing has never impressed me and his tone is absolute garbage. Chuck and Dime have both written a cool riff here and there but i still dont see why they are regarded so highly.



I'm coming to your house and I'm going to dump a truckfull of copies of Human on your front lawn


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## abandonist (Jul 17, 2013)

The Beatles.

All of them.

.... that band.


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## sweepingDemon (Jul 17, 2013)

silverabyss said:


> I'm coming to your house and I'm going to dump a truckfull of copies of Human on your front lawn



Dont forget the rest of the discography, loads of tasty licks and riffs on symbolic


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 17, 2013)

abandonist said:


> The Beatles.
> 
> All of them.
> 
> .... that band.



This. This for days, weeks, months, years, eternity. Whenever I say this people go apeshit and it's hilarious. My favorite is when people go "no, the popular stuff sucks, but it's the other stuff that's good". I've heard the other stuff. It's the same as almost any shred album I've heard - boring, rambling, aimless tangent ideas. I had originally not listed The Beatles since it is "musicians" as the criteria, but if we can actually put bands in then I strongly will agree with The Beatles. The most over-rated band of all time, and the origin of the "One Directioners" (I'd say Beliebers, but Elvis kinda had that thing going on)


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 17, 2013)

silverabyss said:


> I'm coming to your house and I'm going to dump a truckfull of copies of Human on your front lawn



good, i was planning on having a bonfire later


----------



## Don Vito (Jul 17, 2013)

silverabyss said:


> I'm coming to your house and I'm going to dump a truckfull of copies of Human on your front lawn


I would hate to own a truckfull of that album. 

Masdival's and DiGiorgio's parts are practically the only thing that interest me.


----------



## donray1527 (Jul 17, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> good, i was planning on having a bonfire later



I'll bring the marshmallows.


----------



## fwd0120 (Jul 17, 2013)

I must disagree about the Beatles. Their contributions to rock music is massive. Besides, they themselves didn't believe they were very good musicians. In fact, John Lennon has been quoted saying he is "embarrassed" about his guitar skill.
Honestly, they grew out of formula's around '66. 'Rain' is pretty different and has killer bass, and Helter Skelter is heavier than the first Sabbath album imo.


----------



## Coltzer (Jul 17, 2013)

Kirk Hammett - hard as I tried, Metallica always just sounded so plain and unimaginitive, apart from the odd song (No Leaf Clover) here or there I don't mind.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Jul 17, 2013)

Coltzer said:


> Kirk Hammett - hard as I tried, Metallica always just sounded so plain and unimaginitive, apart from the odd song (No Leaf Clover) here or there I don't mind.



I've always felt this way. Stuff like No Leaf Clover was always excellent to me, but the "real" Metallica that everyone's spoke about just never did it for me. I remember attempting to take guitar lessons for the first time, and I must have been about 15, a year or so into playing. My teacher, on our first lesson, tried to teach me Sad but True...

"You're a metalhead, right? Lets try some Metallica!"

Ignore my Cryptopsy shirt bro. You know what, ignore everything I said. Music starts and ends with Metallica, AND YOU MUST LEARN IT TO BE GOD.

Perhaps this is the reason I frown upon most guitar "teachers."


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 17, 2013)

^ you just sound like a dick, do you really expect the average guitar teacher to know of and be in to Cryptopsy? when most non metalheads think of heavy music they think of Metallica.


----------



## daschy (Jul 17, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> Wow, 12 pages of Comic Book Guy
> 
> I find that dwelling on what kind of music I _don't_ like is, for myself as a musician, a complete waste of energy. And that anyone who's had any success in the business (let alone the huge names that have been mentioned in this topic) did so by being very, very appreciated. By someone, doesn't have to be me.
> 
> My contribution to the list would be to say there are plenty of players who clearly didn't make an effort to make ME like their music, and that's cool. They would most likely not enjoy my music either



I think you're taking this thread the wrong way- it's not that we're all dwelling on who we don't like (although I'm sure some people came here to do that), but the only thought I really had when posting my own list of overrated players was "Gee, who gets a lot of praise for their guitar playing but doesn't really excel at guitar". 

Hell, I like quite a few of the players I find overrated. I listen to Pantera all the time, and I think Dime is quite overrated, same with Metallica and Kirk. I think some of us have gotten confused and just came here to trash players we don't like, instead of actually putting some thought into whether or not they're overrated.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Jul 18, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> ^ you just sound like a dick, do you really expect the average guitar teacher to know of and be in to Cryptopsy? when most non metalheads think of heavy music they think of Metallica.



I'm not sure how I sound like a dick. I wanted to take MUSIC lessons. Not cover Metallica songs. I wasn't going to learn anything musical from butchering Metallica covers.


----------



## Sverdugo (Jul 18, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> ^ you just sound like a dick, do you really expect the average guitar teacher to know of and be in to Cryptopsy? when most non metalheads think of heavy music they think of Metallica.



I honestly gotta agree with GiveUpGuitar. The only two teachers I've ever had just showed me Black Sabbath songs, Metallica songs, and Lynyrd Skynard songs. I get it, this is a fun song and all, but I can read tabs.

Also, Kirk Hammet is probably the ONLY thing I like about Metallica. That and the early stuff with Dave Mustaine.


----------



## donray1527 (Jul 18, 2013)

Sverdugo said:


> I honestly gotta agree with GiveUpGuitar. The only two teachers I've ever had just showed me Black Sabbath songs, Metallica songs, and Lynyrd Skynard songs. I get it, this is a fun song and all, but I can read tabs.
> 
> Also, Kirk Hammet is probably the ONLY thing I like about Metallica. That and the early stuff with Dave Mustaine.



The only thing I like about Metallica is St. Anger.... I couldn't even type that with a strait face haha


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## prh (Jul 18, 2013)

the idea of 'overrated' doesn't really interest me... like, i don't sit around and find myself wishing LESS success for people

underrated musicians on the other hand are very much worth talking about imo


----------



## garey77 (Jul 19, 2013)

I can't get into the dude from Nile... just don't get why he's famous.


----------



## Workhorse (Jul 19, 2013)

garey77 said:


> I can't get into the dude from Nile... just don't get why he's famous.



Which one? They have this thing with uber distortion, I saw them live and they ....ing ripped it, really talented.


----------



## Don Vito (Jul 19, 2013)

garey77 said:


> I can't get into the dude from Nile... just don't get why he's famous.


Karl? He's really not. He gets a lot of attention for his infamous KxK V's I guess.

As far as his playing goes, he sets himself apart from the other death metal guys because he uses these huge and haunting "Egyptian" notes, that give Nile their muse.


----------



## BaptizedBurning (Jul 19, 2013)

Kurt Cobain. He always manages to land on "best guitarists ever" lists but I never understood why. Sure, he could write songs, but there's nothing special about his playing.


----------



## Herrick (Jul 19, 2013)

Metal-Box said:


> ...who do you think is getting way more attention than they deserve?


 
All of them.


----------



## cronux (Jul 19, 2013)

Trivium guys...


----------



## Draceius (Jul 19, 2013)

This thread has gone just as I expected it to, started off with people following the OP, and end up as (well I say ended up, it's been like this for a few pages now) with people just airing who they don't like, or people who's playing styles they don't like, and then people fishing for likes by saying names that have been said multiple times in the thread. Kinda sad how this thread got way more attention than the one for underrated players, when that one was much more constructive, but c'est la vie.


----------



## Danukenator (Jul 19, 2013)

JPMike said:


> P.S 4: Rob Chappers is totally overrated and not funny at all, that's a fact!!!!
> 
> Mike



QTF. He seems to have gotten worse lately. IMO, he was always a good guitarist but nothing special.


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## donray1527 (Jul 20, 2013)

Rob Chappers is hilarious!!! lol 

oh wait, this isnt the shit nobody says thread...


----------



## KultureDekay (Jul 20, 2013)

I will say Misha Mansoor maybe be a little overrated, even though I may listen to Periphery everyday. Honestly, I won't say anything about his playing or his composition. 

What mostly makes me wonder is why his opinions matter so much (inb4 basswood body is the sheez cuz bulb said so cuz hes the master of tonewood, buy bareknuckle or buy twice, djent djent purr purr)

I still love em and bulb too (I only said "a little overatted", just don't see him as a figure that if you don't follow him, you're wrong. OFC this doesn't apply to all of his fans, but the fanboyism is strong with this one (inb4 imho imho imho imho)


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## SHADOWOFD3ATH24 (Jul 29, 2013)

Mick Thomson of Slipknot
Eddie van Halen when hes not soloing- his solos are awesome!
Stephen Carpenter of Deftones
The Beatles 
Slash of GnR
Kirk hammett of Metallica
Dragonforce guitarists
Zakk Wylde after OZZY
Tony Iommi


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 29, 2013)

^Agreed on all of that, cept for Steph Carpenter, I really have never heard him get any hype? The man can make some sweet riffs but, unless I'm missing something, he doesn't get a ton of hype


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## Zalbu (Jul 30, 2013)

I really don't see how Misha is overrated. He pretty much started an entire subgenre in his bedroom and only has the cult-like following on the internet. Nobody outside the djent scene knows who he is, at least not up until very recently since he was on the cover of Guitar World and all that. He's never claimed to be a virtuoso and he himself even says he's the worst guitarist in Periphery. The praise he gets is because he knows his shit when it comes to songwriting, producing, making riffs, tone, gear and all that stuff, not because he can play 3000 notes per second.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2013)

SHADOWOFD3ATH24 said:


> Mick Thomson of Slipknot
> Tony Iommi



I honestly think Mick doesn't get the credit he deserves. The guy is probably one of the tightest rhythm guitarists ever. Hate Slipknot, but that guy can ....ing play. 

And Tony Iommi... He started the genre you listen to.


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## Deathspell Omega (Jul 30, 2013)

In no specific order :

Kirk Hammett
Slash
Joe Satriani
Thiago Della Vega
Victor Smolski
Michael Schenker
Tosin Abasi
John Scofield
Joe Bonamassa
Orianthi


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## Curt (Jul 30, 2013)

Deathspell Omega said:


> In no specific order :
> 
> Kirk Hammett
> Slash
> ...


Agree
Agree
Disagree
Who?
Who?
Disagree
Well, he is a great guitarist. Even if I don't care for AAL.
Wait, Scofield? Really? lolno
Disagree
Disagree


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2013)

Curt said:


> Agree
> Agree
> Disagree
> Who?
> ...



Nailed it.


----------



## Don Vito (Jul 30, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And Tony Iommi... He started the genre you listen to.


As popular as Black Sabbath are, I still find Iommi underrated for some reason.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2013)

Don Vito said:


> As popular as Black Sabbath is, I still find Iommi underrated for some reason.



Because people usually consider Ozzy the face of Sabbath. 

EDIT: Also, Zakk Wylde's "Pride and Glory" is underrated as hell. Some really good southern hard rock/metal.


----------



## lawizeg (Jul 30, 2013)

Never got the love for Kirk Hammett. Although I don't like Steve Vai, I get why he's so admired.
Misha, a little, technique wise. He's an incredible writer though. Mad creative


----------



## fps (Jul 31, 2013)

BaptizedBurning said:


> Kurt Cobain. He always manages to land on "best guitarists ever" lists but I never understood why. Sure, he could write songs, but there's nothing special about his playing.



Eh, on guitar what you write is kinda 90% of your worth. We're not talking violinists here.


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## Mprinsje (Aug 23, 2013)

Abasi. Brilliant guitarist but he just bores me to death and his tone is the worst thing ever.


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## JustMac (Aug 23, 2013)

Mprinsje said:


> Abasi. Brilliant guitarist but he just bores me to death and his tone is the worst thing ever.


True. True. Technical, but then again so is astrophysics and I would probably find that a little dull too


----------



## sawtoothscream (Aug 23, 2013)

Gates, people get huge boners over the guy but every time i attempt to listen to a live vid everything sound sloppy to me.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Aug 24, 2013)

Although I definitely _*wouldn't*_ add them to the list but judging from all the hate they get when I mention Unearth to some of my friends, I'm surprised Ken and Buz didn't get mentioned after 14 pages in this thread.

First off, I'm definitely over-rated! I get some praise here and there but I'm all like whatevs bout it. 

For me it's definitely John Mayer - I pay attention anytime I hear his material but I almost always walk away not getting what the hype's about? Starting to think maybe i'm not supposed to get it. Very much feel the same about everyone I mention here, off the top:

The Faceless
The Eagles
Steve Frusciante (spelling?) and Flea
Tesseract
Yngwie Malmsteen
Mastodon
I wanna say In Flames but their early material is killer, more so the last 3 or so albums I found over-rated
Killswitch Engage (stay calm... opinion only)
Sepultura + Max Cavalera


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Aug 24, 2013)

Dimebag is definitely up there, although he is a sweet guitarist he gets help up like a god just because he died.
Same seems to have happened with Jeff Hanneman(sp?), actually a pretty sloppy guitarist in my opinion but suddenly a guitar hero as soon as he dies.
Then again I'm a cynical douche.
Oh, and John Petrucci. DT fans are almost as bad as A7x fangirls (and this is coming from a fan of both bands).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 24, 2013)

TheDeathOfMusic said:


> Same seems to have happened with Jeff Hanneman(sp?), actually a pretty sloppy guitarist in my opinion but suddenly a guitar hero as soon as he dies.
> Then again I'm a cynical douche.



Not sure about that. Even before he died, he was regarded pretty highly. He wrote/co-wrote Slayer's best songs.


----------



## BucketheadRules (Aug 24, 2013)

TheDeathOfMusic said:


> Dimebag is definitely up there, although he is a sweet guitarist he gets help up like a god just because he died.



True, although I question how much of the posthumous adulation he gets (yeah, check me out with my big words!) is actually because of his guitar playing... obviously there's the usual "OMG HE WAS THE BEST GITAR PLAYER EVAR" bullshit, but I don't see many people commenting on YouTube vids saying "Wow, his rhythm playing really was something" or "I just love that run at 3:24" or whatever...


----------



## Dawn of the Shred (Aug 24, 2013)

No way dime is. He was doing stuff in the 90s no one was doing


----------



## BrailleDecibel (Aug 24, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Steve Frusciante (spelling?) and Flea



Pretty sure his name is John. Also not too sure on the spelling of his last name, though, gotta look that up.


----------



## Jzbass25 (Aug 24, 2013)

zero_end said:


> Exactly what I think about Jordan Rudess.



I would have to agree on many of his DT solos but not as a musician in general, he is very good and this first video imo is pretty musical while being faster. I mean c'mon not everyone gets into Juilliard


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Aug 24, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> True, although I question how much of the posthumous adulation he gets (yeah, check me out with my big words!) is actually because of his guitar playing... obviously there's the usual "OMG HE WAS THE BEST GITAR PLAYER EVAR" bullshit, but I don't see many people commenting on YouTube vids saying "Wow, his rhythm playing really was something" or "I just love that run at 3:24" or whatever...



Exactly, it's purely because he died.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Aug 24, 2013)

CJLsky said:


> Pretty sure his name is John. Also not too sure on the spelling of his last name, though, gotta look that up.



 well spotted, not the first time I've made that error though  I guess the man just looks like a "Steve" to me.


----------



## jernigant (Aug 25, 2013)

JPMike said:


> P.S 4: Rob Chappers is totally overrated and not funny at all, that's a fact!!!!
> 
> Thank you,
> Mike



His playing hasn't been very good lately but personally i think he is very funny.


----------



## BaptizedBurning (Aug 25, 2013)

I can't believe many of you think Dime is overrated and only gets recognition because he died young. I guess many of you were too young to remember Dime before he died. He was a very well respected and praised guitarist long before he was killed. Dime was on countless best of lists and guitar magazine covers all throughout the 90s. He was a completely well rounded guitarist. He could write amazing songs, great riffs as a rhythm guitarist, and an incredible lead player. His solos weren't 1,000 notes a minute shred fests like Slayer, his solos were well written and fit perfectly into the songs. He's a guitarist you could hear and know instantly it was Dime just by hearing his tone and his style.


----------



## BaDaML (Aug 25, 2013)

I am joining those defending Dimebag. Well before he died he was receiving praises for his playing. One of the unique things about him was stepping up and breaking from convention and stating his preference for solid state amps.

I had the pleasure of seeing Pantera perform at the Wildcat house (a very smal venue) in Tucson, AZ in the early 90's (Cowboys from Hell tour). A great show. Someone actually got knocked down in the mosh pit, and Anselmo stopped the song, saying it isn't cool to see someone hurt and not help them out. After the concert, Dimebag sat at the edge of stairs leading to the stage to sign autographs and thank people for coming.

My brother in law told Dimebag he started listening to Pantera when he was in Desert Storm. Dimebag got up, came over and shook his hand, and thanked him for his service. Dimebag was a class act.

So, for those that think he was over rated, keep in mind all of the things he did, and also the time period. Nirvana, Sound Garden, Pearl Jam were the big bands of the day. Pantera was bringing it back to metal in a big way.


----------



## Murmel (Aug 25, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> For me it's definitely John Mayer - I pay attention anytime I hear his material but I almost always walk away not getting what the hype's about?


He's one of the best blues players to come out in recent times, and also has a talent for writing beatufil singer-songwriter material.

Really dude, trust me when I say the guy can rip. I even saw a video of him doing it stoned


----------



## Esp Griffyn (Aug 25, 2013)

TheDeathOfMusic said:


> Same seems to have happened with Jeff Hanneman(sp?), actually a pretty sloppy guitarist in my opinion but suddenly a guitar hero as soon as he dies.



Check Slayer's writing credits, he wrote the songs that made them huge. No one says he is a killer guitarist - machine riffer yes, but his solos are not amazing, but that was the Slayer style. His impact, the way his songs changed metal forever is what he was revered for, and will be his legacy.


----------



## C2Aye (Aug 25, 2013)

Murmel said:


> He's one of the best blues players to come out in recent times, and also has a talent for writing beatufil singer-songwriter material.
> 
> Really dude, trust me when I say the guy can rip. I even saw a video of him doing it stoned



I might have a tiny, massive man crush on John Mayer.


----------



## BaDaML (Aug 25, 2013)

C2Aye said:


> I might have a tiny, massive man crush on John Mayer.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 25, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Steve Frusciante (spelling?) and Flea



As someone pointed out, it's John, but you did manage to spell Frusciante correctly . I don't really think too many people think he's a great guitarist so much as he's considered a great songwriter. If you listen to the stuff RHCP did before he joined and on the other albums they've done without him later, it's pretty hard to deny the influence his songwriting has had on the band. Nobody they had before or since has been better.

Regarding Flea, I'd have agreed with you, up until about a month ago. I'm trying to make the transition to bass again, and as I'm doing so I'm paying alot more attention to bass lines. Flea might not be up there with the uber noodly bassists like Wooten, but as with Frusciante, it's his writing that really gets the job done. Not that he's a slouch in the technique department, though. He can play his ass off, and trying to learn RHCP songs is a bitch and a half for me so far . That aside, though, he's a bassist, so he doesn't quite belong in an overrated guitarists thread .


----------



## abandonist (Aug 25, 2013)

Guthrie Govan - I've listened to several songs and they're all just boring as dirt.


----------



## hk_golgatha (Aug 26, 2013)

John Petrucci is extremely overrated as a songwriter. Guthrie is to a much smaller extent.
Now as players, I disagree. Those men can outplay a lot of us (me especially), I'm sure.

To contribute:
Tesseract
Synyster Gates
Flea
Kirk Hammett

Tesseract bores me to tears, honestly. To me it just sounds like rhythms. And I'm not even against that stuff. I love rhythms. I love Periphery. Not exactly sure why I can't get into this band. Just never could.

Syn is sloppy, has bad technique, and as a long time fan of a7x, I am quite frankly tired of him just not giving one shit about anything live. But on the contrary, I will defend the Rev and M. Shadows every day of the week.

Flea is probably the definition of overrated. He used to be great. Now he's just living with hype and playing octaves. I saw RHCP live fairly recently and was honestly bored to tears by everything Flea did (bass solo included). I will always love Frusciante, though. Never thought he was overrated. Quite the opposite, actually.

Kirk is wah and pentatonics. Oh and Mustaine and Vai rips. And this is coming from a lover of Metallica and worshipper of Hetfield. Het and Metallica are the reason I play guitar.

EDIT: Prepares for everyone to get mad about me comparing Tesseract to Periphery like the drummer of my band does. Merely commenting on how I appreciate stupid rhythms.


----------



## Rylynn (Aug 26, 2013)

abandonist said:


> Guthrie Govan - I've listened to several songs and they're all just boring as dirt.



I dunno man, i also don't dig G. Govan's music because i'm more a shred/tech/prog-metal person who prefer Ron jarzombek, Jeff Loomis, Spawn of Possession and such but i don't like calling Guthrie Govan overrated just because i don't like his music or his approach in songwriting. He's still a great all-around player and songwriter who i think deserves praise (Steven Wilson's new album anyone?), and at least to me, his songs are a bit more interesting than someone like Steve Vai or Buckethead. 

There are a lot of highly praised non-metal guitarists out there that i don't dig (Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Bonnamasa, Derek Trucks, Birelli Lagrene or Steve Vai for that matter) but i don't like calling them overrated just because of personal taste


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 26, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't really like their music, but I think they're far from overrated.
> 
> Besides on some niche music forums like this one, how often do you see their names brought up?



^Bringing this up again because of Guthrie.


----------



## donray1527 (Aug 26, 2013)

F*cking Zakk Wylde. lol I love him, but god he is overated.


----------



## Govan Emmanuel (Aug 26, 2013)

I'm a huge SRV fan, and to me John Mayer is a really really great blues player

even Paul Gilbert and Alex Skolnick praised his playing


----------



## Dawn of the Shred (Aug 26, 2013)

I have to sorry to misha. I just got their 2nd cd and its awesome! So i dont think he is overrated at all.


----------



## Addison90 (Aug 26, 2013)

hk_golgatha said:


> John Petrucci is extremely overrated as a songwriter. Guthrie is to a much smaller extent.



I remember when i discovered Subjectivity and Taste


----------



## ghostred7 (Aug 26, 2013)

BaptizedBurning said:


> I can't believe many of you think Dime is overrated and only gets recognition because he died young. I guess many of you were too young to remember Dime before he died. He was a very well respected and praised guitarist long before he was killed. Dime was on countless best of lists and guitar magazine covers all throughout the 90s. He was a completely well rounded guitarist. He could write amazing songs, great riffs as a rhythm guitarist, and an incredible lead player. His solos weren't 1,000 notes a minute shred fests like Slayer, his solos were well written and fit perfectly into the songs. He's a guitarist you could hear and know instantly it was Dime just by hearing his tone and his style.


I'm old enough to remember Dime before Pantera stopped being glam. I still stand by my statement that I think he's overrated. Your statement about being on "countless best of lists and guitar magazine covers through the 90s" pretty much sums up this sentiment of his being overrated. Also, lets face it. The 90s didn't yield a whole lot of phenomena of players...just a lot of grudge vomit. Naturally he stood out....Metal in mainstream was essentially killed by Nirvana. Not hard to be on a best-of list when you're competing against the lead guitarist for Soundgarden or Nirvana.

Not gonna lie...I'm a little butthurt that Dime got so much attention in the 90s when Criss Oliva was all but glazed over and he was a superior guitarist.


----------



## EcoliUVA (Aug 26, 2013)




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## -42- (Aug 26, 2013)

The biggest difference in Dime's rep pre and post mortem are the number of Deans with his face proudly tacked on.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Aug 26, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> As someone pointed out, it's John, but you did manage to spell Frusciante correctly . I don't really think too many people think he's a great guitarist so much as he's considered a great songwriter. If you listen to the stuff RHCP did before he joined and on the other albums they've done without him later, it's pretty hard to deny the influence his songwriting has had on the band. Nobody they had before or since has been better.
> 
> Regarding Flea, I'd have agreed with you, up until about a month ago. I'm trying to make the transition to bass again, and as I'm doing so I'm paying alot more attention to bass lines. Flea might not be up there with the uber noodly bassists like Wooten, but as with Frusciante, it's his writing that really gets the job done. Not that he's a slouch in the technique department, though. He can play his ass off, and trying to learn RHCP songs is a bitch and a half for me so far . That aside, though, he's a bassist, so he doesn't quite belong in an overrated guitarists thread .



Without a doubt, I'd say Californication (album) was and still is great fun to listen to, I'll agree as a songwriter that he *had* his moments where I'd go, "man, bravo, that's a really well-written song," but i've noticed a stark difference between his album performance and live, naturally of course, that's common. My opinion is more so coming from in the recent years where I've had several ppl in my group of friends, and co-workers, absolutely lose their shit when i said "meh John's okay..." while discussing great guitar players, hence my perception that there is hype.

And it always boils down to someone whipping out their phone/tablet/computer to show me what they thought of was Frusciante's "ermahgerd gurrtest live sorlo of all tahhmm," and it's just painful for me (IMO), followed by a so-so bass solo by Flea. Not trying to knock their hustle, it's all subjective opinion in the end but very overrated. 

Funny enough, of all my friends - only the metal guitar players share in my opinion. Subjectivism based on genre preference perhaps? 

And those who don't share in that opinion just happen to not be as well-versed in guitar technique, song-writing, theory, and more so, experience (in comparison only, nothing against them). Subjectivism based on skill level?

I think it's how each person views a certain guitar player in those subjective contexts that allows them to conclude that "X guitar player is overrated," nothing's conclusive.

/slight tangent


----------



## Reino Tulonen (Aug 26, 2013)

Rammstein... they have some really simple stuff and people just go crazy too see them. I don't understand why though.


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Aug 26, 2013)

Reino Tulonen said:


> Rammstein... they have some really simple stuff and people just go crazy _*to*_ see them. I don't understand why though.



1. because music is about content not fretwanking
2. fixed


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 26, 2013)

TheDeathOfMusic said:


> 1. because music is about content not fretwanking
> 2. fixed



This. I've never heard people call the guys from Rammstein virtuoso at anything. They just write some solid songs and have a hell of a live show.


----------



## hk_golgatha (Aug 26, 2013)

Addison90 said:


> I remember when i discovered Subjectivity and Taste


To each his own! I love Guthrie and Erotic Cakes. Not necessarily the best written songs in my opinion. I respect Petrucci as a player but I've just never been the biggest fan of DT's songwriting. It's absolutely all subjective.


----------



## lawizeg (Aug 26, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> For me it's definitely John Mayer - I pay attention anytime I hear his material but I almost always walk away not getting what the hype's about? Starting to think maybe i'm not supposed to get it. Very much feel the same about everyone I mention here, off the top:



I get the John Mayer thing. I mostly LOVE his live stuffI feel like thats where you can actually hear how well he plays. The studio stuff is boring.


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## ellengtrgrl (Aug 26, 2013)

sojourner said:


> Buckethead
> 
> "*master* of over 20 genres..", "way more versatile & diverse than people like guthrie govan.."
> 
> seriously?


 
+1 and then some!!! 

I quit listening to the show that WMSE (a local college radio station) has on Tuesday mornings during my commute to work, because the idiot DJ, who does the show, ALWAYS opens the show (which runs from 6 AM to 9 AM), with "Shape vs Buckethead." That has to be one of the stupidest songs of all time! The lyrics are beyond lame! I sooooo don't love hearing "is life worth living?" repeated umpeen times, in voices ranging from munchkins to trolls speaking. Oh yeah, and who can't love hearing lyrics about how Buckethead needs to watch out, because Michael Meyers is out to get him. Oh yeah, and all of the lyrics being spoken over cheesy, mediocre hip hop rhythm tracks. Oh, and don't forget Bucketbrain's awesome guitar work - ya gotta love a player who basically makes his guitar sound like hip hop record scratches for an entire song. I find the song to be so bad, that it isn't even a good tongue-in-cheek humor, or parody song.

In the vein of the immortal Siskel and Ebert from "At The Movies", I give the song a big thumbs down.  

I never much cared for Buckethead's "Michael Meyers wearing a mask in Halloween", with a fried chicken bucket on his head schtick (whatever his reason is for doing it), but "songs" like the one I mentioned above, are pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me not bothering to listen to the Buckethead.


----------



## redstone (Aug 26, 2013)




----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 27, 2013)

ellengtrgrl said:


> +1 and then some!!!
> 
> I quit listening to the show that WMSE (a local college radio station) has on Wednesday mornings during my commute to work, because the idiot DJ, who does the show, ALWAYS opens the show (which runs from 6 AM to 9 AM), with "Shape vs Buckethead." That has to be one of the stupidest songs of all time! The lyrics are beyond lame! I sooooo don't love hearing "is life worth living?" repeated umpeen times, in voices ranging from munchkins to trolls speaking. Oh yeah, and who can't love hearing lyrics about how Buckethead needs to watch out, because Michael Meyers is out to get him. Oh yeah, and all of the lyrics being spoken over cheesy, mediocre hip hop rhythm tracks. Oh, and don't forget Bucketbrain's awesome guitar work - ya gotta love a player who basically makes his guitar sound like hip hop record scratches for an entire song. I find the song to be so bad, that it isn't even a good tongue-in-cheek humor, or parody song.
> 
> ...




For what it's worth, you couldn't have picked a song less representative of his body of work to judge him by than that song. I won't try to convince you to like him, as I know he really is one of those love him or hate him musicians, but I'd encourage you to check out some more before writing him off based on that song and his stage persona.

That song actually came up in the car when I was getting a ride to work last year, and my coworker said "this sounds like the joke songs artists put in fake album leaks to troll the pirates," hahaha. You aren't alone in not digging it . I like it just fine, myself.


----------



## Drowner (Aug 27, 2013)

ellengtrgrl said:


> +1 and then some!!!
> 
> I quit listening to the show that WMSE (a local college radio station) has on Wednesday mornings during my commute to work, because the idiot DJ, who does the show, ALWAYS opens the show (which runs from 6 AM to 9 AM), with "Shape vs Buckethead." That has to be one of the stupidest songs of all time! The lyrics are beyond lame! I sooooo don't love hearing "is life worth living?" repeated umpeen times, in voices ranging from munchkins to trolls speaking. Oh yeah, and who can't love hearing lyrics about how Buckethead needs to watch out, because Michael Meyers is out to get him. Oh yeah, and all of the lyrics being spoken over cheesy, mediocre hip hop rhythm tracks. Oh, and don't forget Bucketbrain's awesome guitar work - ya gotta love a player who basically makes his guitar sound like hip hop record scratches for an entire song. I find the song to be so bad, that it isn't even a good tongue-in-cheek humor, or parody song.
> 
> ...





Grand Moff Tim said:


> For what it's worth, you couldn't have picked a song less representative of his body of work to judge him by than that song. I won't try to convince you to like him, as I know he really is one of those love him or hate him musicians, but I'd encourage you to check out some more before writing him off based on that song and his stage persona.
> 
> That song actually came up in the car when I was getting a ride to work last year, and my coworker said "this sounds like the joke songs artists put in fake album leaks to troll the pirates," hahaha. You aren't alone in not digging it . I like it just fine, myself.



Absolutely, with the sheer size of his body of work, there are bound to be duds and stuff you simply aren't going to like. Check out Colma, Electric Tears, Captain Eo's Voyage, Population Override or his side band, The Deli Creeps. That will give you a MUCH better picture, and are nothing at all Shape vs.


----------



## asfeir (Aug 27, 2013)

Tom Hess?


----------



## Tope (Aug 27, 2013)

If you're talking overrated by the general public then it probably has to be Hendrix. If you ask most people who the best guitarist to ever live is, I imagine the majority would say Hendrix.

For what it's worth I actually really like Hendrix, but more for the originality in his music than his guitar playing, which was good for his time but well overrated by most.

Clapton is another overrated by the majority. The difference being that his music has zero originality ..................... Clapton sucks.


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## fps (Aug 27, 2013)

You people are picking players most people have never even heard of as the most overrated players ever? 

There is only one answer to this question. Eric Clapton.


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## fps (Aug 27, 2013)

ellengtrgrl said:


> +1 and then some!!!
> 
> I quit listening to the show that WMSE (a local college radio station) has on Wednesday mornings during my commute to work, because the idiot DJ, who does the show, ALWAYS opens the show (which runs from 6 AM to 9 AM), with "Shape vs Buckethead." That has to be one of the stupidest songs of all time! The lyrics are beyond lame! I sooooo don't love hearing "is life worth living?" repeated umpeen times, in voices ranging from munchkins to trolls speaking. Oh yeah, and who can't love hearing lyrics about how Buckethead needs to watch out, because Michael Meyers is out to get him. Oh yeah, and all of the lyrics being spoken over cheesy, mediocre hip hop rhythm tracks. Oh, and don't forget Bucketbrain's awesome guitar work - ya gotta love a player who basically makes his guitar sound like hip hop record scratches for an entire song. I find the song to be so bad, that it isn't even a good tongue-in-cheek humor, or parody song.
> 
> ...



You don't know a damn thing about Buckethead, and your ignorance is your own loss.


----------



## ayaotd (Aug 27, 2013)

Tope said:


> If you're talking overrated by the general public then it probably has to be Hendrix. If you ask most people who the best guitarist to ever live is, I imagine the majority would say Hendrix.
> 
> For what it's worth I actually really like Hendrix, but more for the originality in his music than his guitar playing, which was good for his time but well overrated by most.
> 
> Clapton is another overrated by the majority. The difference being that his music has zero originality ..................... Clapton sucks.



I'm not a rock or classic rock guy. I don't disrespect Clapton or Hendrix. I feel like they are from a vastly different time in the music landscape. It was irritating a few years ago to have my busy telling me that those guys made better music or we're better players then the guys in the bands I like. I dislike the whole playing fast/metal has no feeling deal as well.


----------



## MoshJosh (Aug 27, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> As far as the modern metal Internet buzz is concerned, the only one I feel comfortable mentioning is Tosin Abasi - I respect the guy as a musician, and he is a talented player with some cool tricks, but most of it sounds contrived if not uninspired to my ears. Not that I don't enjoy his music at all, but listening to his recordings was a let down for me after all of the praise I read/heard. For that matter, a lot of highly praised musicians end up being disappointing/seemingly overrated if they don't meet your tastes



Tosin is an amazing musicians and i can appreciate his skill but his music isn't really enjoyable to listen to. when an Animals as Leaders song starts playing on my Ipod I'm like "wow Tosin is so amazing" then I immediately press skip.


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## wat (Aug 27, 2013)

Kerry King- So bad it's funny 

Tom Morello - boring and gimmicky


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## MoshJosh (Aug 27, 2013)

Kiwimetal101 said:


> Jack White.. Just "meh" comes to mind
> 
> Misha Mansoor.. Like it was said before he writes some groovy as fvck riffs and has great producing skills, but nothing special as a guitarist
> 
> ...


Jack White made a song in collaboration with ICP. No longer a fan


----------



## ellengtrgrl (Aug 27, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> For what it's worth, you couldn't have picked a song less representative of his body of work to judge him by than that song. I won't try to convince you to like him, as I know he really is one of those love him or hate him musicians, but I'd encourage you to check out some more before writing him off based on that song and his stage persona.
> 
> That song actually came up in the car when I was getting a ride to work last year, and my coworker said "this sounds like the joke songs artists put in fake album leaks to troll the pirates," hahaha. You aren't alone in not digging it . I like it just fine, myself.


 


Drowner said:


> Absolutely, with the sheer size of his body of work, there are bound to be duds and stuff you simply aren't going to like. Check out Colma, Electric Tears, Captain Eo's Voyage, Population Override or his side band, The Deli Creeps. That will give you a MUCH better picture, and are nothing at all Shape vs.


 


fps said:


> You don't know a damn thing about Buckethead, and your ignorance is your own loss.


 

Oh well, what can I say? I have heard a few of his other songs. They sound OK to me (not "oh wow!"). The tipping factor for me is songs like "Shape vs Buckethead", and his "fried chicken bucket & mask" thing. That makes him a turn off to me. I like instrumentals, but by the same token, I don't like songs with with silly non-sequitur lyrics. I've heard different reasons as to why he wears the mask & chicken bucket. If he's doing it to be noticed for looking silly, he's certainly succeeded.

In retrospect, I probably should have not posted, since it's more a case of dislike for Buckethead's material, than my feeling that he's lacking in chops (although, you don't necessarily have to have monster chops to make good music). My bad, and apologies from me.


----------



## wat (Aug 29, 2013)

Reino Tulonen said:


> Rammstein... they have some really simple stuff and people just go crazy too see them. I don't understand why though.



Because they play really catchy heavy music and put on an amazing show


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## canuck brian (Aug 29, 2013)

ellengtrgrl said:


> Oh well, what can I say? I have heard a few of his other songs. They sound OK to me (not "oh wow!"). The tipping factor for me is songs like "Shape vs Buckethead", and his "fried chicken bucket & mask" thing. That makes him a turn off to me. I like instrumentals, but by the same token, I don't like songs with with silly non-sequitur lyrics. I've heard different reasons as to why he wears the mask & chicken bucket. If he's doing it to be noticed for looking silly, he's certainly succeeded.
> 
> In retrospect, I probably should have not posted, since it's more a case of dislike for Buckethead's material, than my feeling that he's lacking in chops (although, you don't necessarily have to have monster chops to make good music). My bad, and apologies from me.



You might dig Praxis (Buckethead, Bootsy Collins, Brain)

Most overrated player imo? Hammett. There are hundreds of guys more musical, melodic, technical and talented. He's not bad, but the amount of praise he gets is exceptionally strange.

Most overrated band!! Beatles. Goddamn I hate the Beatles.


----------



## Maniacal (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm pretty overrated. Not the most overrated, but certainly up there.


----------



## 7stringDemon (Aug 29, 2013)

Tom Morello. 

I think I already posted that, but I'm doing it again because .... that guy.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Aug 29, 2013)

Regarding Hendrix, there's no doubt he was not a technical beast, although he was very innovative especially for his time. I do, however, think he was amazing from a raw emotional guitar playing talent perspective. He was _feeling_ those notes, that's for damn sure, and that's been a big influence on me. 

Hendrix often threw technicality out the window to convey emotion - I think that's one of the main things that made him great - and come off as great to the average listener, who just wants to be moved by music.


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## Takemyevil (Aug 29, 2013)

Dave Grohl


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## stuglue (Aug 29, 2013)

The majority of overrated players have no say in who hypes them. I'm sure they are self deprecating humble guys. Jeff Hannemann made no bones about the fact that he thought of himself as an average guitarist. Fact is the music press kisses arse of anyone who can help sell their magazine. .... the NME and all those pretentious rags.


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## wat (Aug 29, 2013)

7stringDemon said:


> Tom Morello.
> 
> I think I already posted that, but I'm doing it again because .... that guy.



Lol prepare to get neg-repped by the butthurt fanboi in this thread

But yeah, his music blows


----------



## mongey (Aug 29, 2013)

2 big Ones for me

SRV - 99% of it sounds cheesy as hell to me .i had a roommate who loved him . I'd just go to the pub whenever the cd came out 

and i have to agree Dimebag. His playing is fine but his tone- just not for me at all and puts me off him completley


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition (Oct 27, 2013)

Yngwie. Not because he is a bad musician, but because he is a first class dickbag.  

And of course Mick Thomson.

And now I'm getting a bit nervous because of all the Korn fanboys here, but I'd say Munky  *flameshield on*


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## RagtimeDandy (Oct 27, 2013)

Guthrie Govan.


----------



## SquirtleSquad (Oct 27, 2013)

This thread hurts my feelings..

I'd have to say.. hmm.. Angus Young. Sloppy mofo.


----------



## Double A (Oct 27, 2013)

BB King and SRV? Waaaaat?

My vote goes to Eric Clapton all the way.


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## Workhorse (Oct 27, 2013)

YJGB said:


> Yngwie. Not because he is a bad musician, but because he is a first class dickbag.
> 
> And of course Mick Thomson.
> 
> And now I'm getting a bit nervous because of all the Korn fanboys here, but I'd say Munky  *flameshield on*



Mick Thompson and Munky are hardly overrated. They write decent riffs and happen to be in bands with huge commercial success. Munky's cool because of the whole sevenstring idea, but besides that I'd really doubt guitarists drooled over his work.


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## Furtive Glance (Oct 27, 2013)

Jack White for me.


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## fwd0120 (Oct 27, 2013)

Furtive Glance said:


> Jack White for me.



Me, too. Unless he gave me a lot of money. In that case I would be one very happy Jack White fan!


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## Zalbu (Oct 27, 2013)

I feel like Mick Thompson gets a lot of shit simply because he's in Slipknot. I mean, he writes some solid riffs and if you watch some interviews him you'll see that he's a pretty humble guy who knows quite a bit about guitars.


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## Malkav (Oct 28, 2013)

Zalbu said:


> I feel like Mick Thompson gets a lot of shit simply because he's in Slipknot. I mean, he writes some solid riffs and if you watch some interviews him you'll see that he's a pretty humble guy who knows quite a bit about guitars.


 
He's actually also a pretty tight player, saw a few in studio videos with him, and one where he was playing thrash metal stuff, and I am absolutely not a slipknot fan by any stretch of the imagination, just credit where it's due.

Seriously though Henry Kaizer - I honestly don't think he has any idea what the .... he's doing...


----------



## skisgaar (Oct 28, 2013)

Zalbu said:


> I feel like Mick Thompson gets a lot of shit simply because he's in Slipknot. I mean, he writes some solid riffs and if you watch some interviews him you'll see that he's a pretty humble guy who knows quite a bit about guitars.



I just think there aren't enough people who have truly paid attention to the technicality of a lot of Splipknot's songs, especially the songs on All Hope Is Gone. Mick's studio videos reveal just how tight a player he is too.


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## Mprinsje (Oct 28, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> I just think there aren't enough people who have truly paid attention to the technicality of a lot of Splipknot's songs, especially the songs on All Hope Is Gone. Mick's studio videos reveal just how tight a player he is too.



unfortunately Slipknot aren't very good when they're trying to be technical . Simple heavy stuff is when they thrive


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Oct 28, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Mick Thompson and Munky are hardly overrated. They write decent riffs and happen to be in bands with huge commercial success. Munky's cool because of the whole sevenstring idea, but besides that I'd really doubt guitarists drooled over his work.



Yeah, I know, but it's more the fact I don't get the enormous popularity. But hey, whatever floats your boat  They asked for an opinion, and I gave my opinion.


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## karjim (Oct 28, 2013)

I can't believe some one said Guthrie Govan. This thread is a joke.
No body knows Guthrie, he plays in small gigs with 100 people and I think he is one of the most versatile player on this damned planet. Incredible feeling, huge knowledge, multi instrumentiste, and an evil shredder like Ron Thal.
In same time I saw Steve Vai...this guy is an encyclopedia of music and variations, he even can talk with this guitar and these fingers are like cats on eggs. He has so knowledge he's far beyond a lot of you 2010's Djent heroes.
Poor kids I see. Do you know the complexity of Frank Zappa music and Paganini sections ? 
Some guys are really nuts and musical like bonobos.
I'm waiting the one who will say Shawn Lane and this poor Becker ...haha 
"Hey dude this guy sweeped all the time, he's overated, I can do it too"


----------



## oniduder (Oct 28, 2013)

karjim said:


> I can't believe some one said Guthrie Govan. This thread is a joke.
> No body knows Guthrie, he plays in small gigs with 100 people and I think he is one of the most versatile player on this damned planet. Incredible feeling, huge knowledge, multi instrumentiste, and an evil shredder like Ron Thal.
> In same time I saw Steve Vai...this guy is an encyclopedia of music and variations, he even can talk with this guitar and these fingers are like cats on eggs. He has so knowledge he's far beyond a lot of you 2010's Djent heroes.
> Poor kids I see. Do you know the complexity of Frank Zappa music and Paganini sections ?
> ...



i think the guthrie was a joke comment because of the trolololol face at the bottom, not sure who cares though

my vote is simple

zaak wylde, malmstein, for being a class A douche, and idk someone else that's popular that has a bravado and machismo and nothing to show for it

this thread is strange though because i know i can't play with most of these players,

i suck, i couldn't tour if i had a band, and wouldn't be able to be as consistent as much of these players are so idk

but still most of this i agree with, 

so there!

boo!


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Oct 28, 2013)

karjim said:


> I can't believe some one said Guthrie Govan. This thread is a joke.
> No body knows Guthrie, he plays in small gigs with 100 people and I think he is one of the most versatile player on this damned planet. Incredible feeling, huge knowledge, multi instrumentiste, and an evil shredder like Ron Thal.



You missed the part where my post wasn't serious. I figured the troll face was a dead give away


----------



## Kullerbytta (Oct 28, 2013)

Kirk Hammet. I think everything he's done in Metallica that I've heard is absolute dildos. The praise he gets seems to know no bounds... And I just don't get it.
I'm not jelly or anything... I just think that whenever there's some thread or video about 'greatest' guitarists Kirk always seems to be in there instead of someone who actually deserves it. I guess you could say I'm jelly for the sake of other guitarists.
For instance; I don't see the 'feeling' that people say he put into the solo on The Unforgiven. Jez sounds bad to me.

Dimebag, Cobain, Slash.


----------



## jbab (Oct 28, 2013)

^ Meh, I think he's been getting more hate than praise in recent years


----------



## oniduder (Oct 28, 2013)

jbab said:


> ^ Meh, I think he's been getting more hate than praise in recent years



back in the 80's or whenever though he was the supposed king of guitar, 

and he blows and if i may opine always has

but i see your point

lars is the biggest dildos ever, kirk is just a vibrator


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## Kullerbytta (Oct 28, 2013)

jbab said:


> ^ Meh, I think he's been getting more hate than praise in recent years


 
From actual musicians (or rather guitarists), yes, I believe that as well.
Everyone else seems to like him as much as ever though. 

Manage to get into the right band and slap on a wah and butcher your own solos and you're the best of the best! 

Ok, that was kind of a hater-attitude. I'm dropping the case on Hamett now.


----------



## meteor685 (Jan 24, 2014)

as much as i love JP, i wud say his newer style is sorta overrated imo.

His old style in the 90s was wayyyy better..


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 26, 2014)

Speaking of Metallica, I listened to a few solos from James, and I gotta say I prefer his playing. He doesn't focus as much on speed so it sounds more bluesy, and his vibrato and bends don't actually suck.


----------



## narad (Jan 26, 2014)

Malkav said:


> Seriously though Henry Kaizer - I honestly don't think he has any idea what the .... he's doing...



Kaiser* -- Absolutely. I hate it when someone's well-acknowledged musical theory acts as a shield against criticism. You're not allowed to actually have the opinion that the whole free improvisation scene is mostly shit: you either like it, or you don't get it. What a great position to be in.


----------



## Blackhearted (Jan 26, 2014)

The amount of praise the A7X guitarists get really bothers me. Yes, they're good, but they're not the musical gods people seem to make them out to be. 
Of course, part of that dislike is coming from the constant comparisons that people make between Synester Gates and Dan Donegan, who I feel is a much better riff-writer and is just all around more memorable.
As some of you probably know, I'm a Disturbed fanboy 
Also, I regularly tell people that Jimi Hendrix and The Beatles are the most overrated guitarist and band in musical history. I understand the justifiable respect that they're owed for musical innovation, but they're not particularly skilled musicians, and certainly don't deserve to be called "the best."
As much as I love Metallica and most of their music, Kirk Hammett is incredibly overrated. He's written a bunch of great music, but again, doesn't deserve to be called "the best."


----------



## Matt1the3Beast (Jan 26, 2014)

Blackhearted said:


> The amount of praise the A7X guitarists get really bothers me. Yes, they're good, but they're not the musical gods people seem to make them out to be.
> Of course, part of that dislike is coming from the constant comparisons that people make between Synester Gates and Dan Donegan, who I feel is a much better riff-writer and is just all around more memorable.
> As some of you probably know, I'm a Disturbed fanboy
> Also, I regularly tell people that Jimi Hendrix and The Beatles are the most overrated guitarist and band in musical history. I understand the justifiable respect that they're owed for musical innovation, but they're not particularly skilled musicians, and certainly don't deserve to be called "the best."
> As much as I love Metallica and most of their music, Kirk Hammett is incredibly overrated. He's written a bunch of great music, but again, doesn't deserve to be called "the best."


Lol do NOT group jimi hendrix and the beatles together. Jimi takes a giant turd on the beatles in every way.Plus he pioneered the hybrid rythmn/lead playing seen in many bands today(including Periphery).


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Jan 26, 2014)

that doesn't mean he's not overrated


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## flexkill (Jan 26, 2014)

Anyone who thinks Hendrix is overrated is misinformed plain and simple. The father of the electric guitar can NEVER be considered overrated PERIOD!

Hendrix is a true guitar GOD! The fact is, while most of the guitar guys you worship now will be forgotten over time, Hendrix is timeless. Put his records on today and they still inspire and fulfill.

EDIT: I totally understand being young and the thinking that if it's not fast and brutal it sux....I'm just glad I was never one of those guys....as I believe I am a better well rounded musician because of it.


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## CALLmeSANCHEZ (Jan 26, 2014)

i hope in 17 pages synester gates has been mentioned at least 37 times


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## CALLmeSANCHEZ (Jan 26, 2014)

flexkill said:


> Anyone who thinks Hendrix is overrated is misinformed plain and simple. The father of the electric guitar can NEVER be considered overrated PERIOD!
> 
> Hendrix is a true guitar GOD! The fact is, while most of the guitar guys you worship now will be forgotten over time, Hendrix is timeless. Put his records on today and they still inspire and fulfill.
> 
> EDIT: I totally understand being young and the thinking that if it's not fast and brutal it sux....I'm just glad I was never one of those guys....as I believe I am a better well rounded musician because of it.



I totally agree. While I don't listen to Hendrix all the time or go crazy over him, he is a true guitar legend and i respect that.


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## teamSKDM (Jan 26, 2014)

well, theres a difference between the BEST and MOST INFLUENTIAL , however most people dont understand that. kirk,dimebag,etc etc yeah were some of the most influential players in the world, and then theres smaller lesser knowns like govan and becker and lane, who we can note at the same time were leagues and leagues and leagues above them. they left a big imprint in the direction of music, but not as much as kirk dime etc. so i can see why people say X is the best, because its not like they can exactly choose who has inspired them the most. HOWEVER , is that not what overrated falls under? that being said. slash for sure, hes the face of guitar center and everyone knows who he is guitarist or not because of his style he has. ive never been ipressed or a fan of slash, even when i was a jit.


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## Spike Spiegel (Jan 26, 2014)

CALLmeSANCHEZ said:


> i hope in 17 pages synester gates has been mentioned at least 37 times



I found 16 times using the search function


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## Hyacinth (Jan 26, 2014)

flexkill said:


> Anyone who thinks Hendrix is overrated is misinformed plain and simple. The father of the electric guitar can NEVER be considered overrated PERIOD!
> 
> Hendrix is a true guitar GOD! The fact is, while most of the guitar guys you worship now will be forgotten over time, Hendrix is timeless. Put his records on today and they still inspire and fulfill.
> 
> EDIT: I totally understand being young and the thinking that if it's not fast and brutal it sux....I'm just glad I was never one of those guys....as I believe I am a better well rounded musician because of it.




Pretty much this. There are plenty of better guitarists in terms of skill, but Hendrix just revolutionized the electric guitar and he did all of it in 7 years. He's a name that likely will never be forgotten in music history.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 26, 2014)

Flexkill, I agree with you and all, but I thought Adolph Rickenbacker and Les Paul were considered the fathers of electric guitar?


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## flexkill (Jan 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Flexkill, I agree with you and all, but I thought Adolph Rickenbacker and Les Paul were considered the fathers of electric guitar?



I knew that was coming....you know what i mean


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## FreighTTrain (Jan 26, 2014)

MatthewLeisher said:


> Pretty much this. There are plenty of better guitarists in terms of skill, but Hendrix just revolutionized the electric guitar and he did all of it in 7 years. He's a name that likely will never be forgotten in music history.



This is all subjective to say the least. Especially for the younger generations.
Are we talking solos? Rhythm playing and /or writing? Stage presence? Attitude?
Some that have been mentioned that I do not agree with? Sometimes it can simply come down to guys that started doing something with the instrument first, before anyone else had. Differently? Quicker? Heavier? More technical profeciancy? More time to practice? More creative? 
In the years to come after some of these guys played, of course things would change ... People would get a whole lot "better".. But some of these guys were the catalyst for such a change..

Hendrix and Jmmy Page.. To appreciate what these guys did then.. Now?
That can be difficult.. Many still couldn't play some of their music today if they tried. The equipment that was available then? The one album every year mentality that was part of the business? 
I like the far less popular tunes by these artists more than the crap they ran down our throats on the radio. Nostalgia can go a long way as well... 

EVH... I remember being in a small club in the late '70's. Between songs the house lights were dimmed all but one. Eddie turned his back to the crowd, staring in to a bright light... Silhouetted on stage. Then came, what was to be, "Eruption". To describe the jaw-dropping reaction of the crowd? I can't... What are we hearing? How is he doing that? We did not know what "tapping" was, nor could we see his hands. Things were about to change..

Hetfield.. First, I will say that he was one of my favorites. The first time that I heard a bootleg cassette of the song "When Hell Freezes Over"? Good lord.. All of the cool acoustic stuff, mixed in with some really heavy, cool riffs... And 8 minutes long? The song was later to be called "Call of Ktulu". And again, I thought to myself.. Things were about to change.. Seeing James and Cliff next to each other on stage on the "Puppets" tour.. The energy.. The endurance.. And man.. The riffs.. The bar was raised, and no one cared that Ozzy was on stage next. Which back then? That was a huge statement.

Chuck from "Death"... I was fan as well.

The topic at hand for me?
When I was younger, we used to go on and on with arguments about Kirk Hammett... Hours of it.
I knew that Kirk never recorded or wrote a single rhythm track on the first four albums. It was all James. Every single part, every single track... Later recorded for Kirk to learn as home work for the upcoming tour. Enter solo here Kirk.
The praise that some of my friends gave Kirk dumbfounded myself. I thought that I was as good in my bedroom.. And I also thought that the earlier Kirk solos were too much like Dave's originals, and the rest had WAY too much Wah-Wah.
Nope... Kirk sucked..

Then I met the guy.. And while in the same room.. Another guy asked him about a cover shoot and title that was recently bestowed upon/for him. "What was I suppose to say? No thanks? I can't help what some think .. I can't stop the media machine."

The guy ended up being one of the coolest guys that I have ever met. There was me, the hypocrite, handing Kirk my "Creeping Death" single on vinyl with "Am I Evil" and "Blitzkrieg" on the "B" side for him to sign... Shaking his hand while I thanked him with a smile. Jeeeezus, I am an ass I thought..

I do not always like who is popular.. Those same guys aren't always the most skilled either. If I do not like them? My older self doesn't give a crap.

I remember hearing "Not of this Earth" by Satriani back in '85, also mentioned on this thread. The first time that I saw him live? Good lord could he play. But really, do you think people are really going to want to listen to an entire album without any singers? Just 60 minutes of guitars?
Things were going to change on that idea as well...

I am glad that there is a larger variety these days.. All the while, I can still respect the guys that came before for their contributions.
"Over-rated"?
Well, my older self disagrees with my own younger self.. I am screwed and arguing with myself I suppose. 
To each their own, and remember... It is a business...

On a side note ... I met Yngwie. That dude was an ass, so he can suck it.. 
Not sure if that qualifies as being "over-rated" though...


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## gunch (Jan 26, 2014)

When this thread was still new I would have said Adam Jones of Tool but today I would go back in time and kick myself in the nads. Also I can't find the Tool thread where I sort of trashed him compared to the rest of the band but I regret it now. 

He's probably among the best riffers out there now that I took a careful listen through Tool's whole catalog.

Does Tool have nutty New Age Mystics for fans? Yes. But it's not their fault. Every person in that band is amazing. 

I really don't hate any musician (except the disingenuous), just the bootlicker fans some have.


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## guitarfan85 (Jan 26, 2014)

Satriani is overrated. He is but a mere studio/session musician to me. His tone sucks too. Ibanez lead tone usually sucks. Swatch, gilbert, vai. Great players. Crap tone


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jan 26, 2014)

^ get ready, you've opened the floodgates


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Jan 26, 2014)

guitarfan85 said:


> Satriani is overrated. He is but a mere studio/session musician to me. His tone sucks too. Ibanez lead tone usually sucks. Swatch, gilbert, vai. Great players. Crap tone


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## flexkill (Jan 26, 2014)

guitarfan85 said:


> Satriani is overrated. He is but a mere studio/session musician to me. His tone sucks too. Ibanez lead tone usually sucks. Swatch, gilbert, vai. Great players. Crap tone


Saw this post you made...prompted me to go to your profile and look at other posts/comments you have made.....yep....makes sense.


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Jan 26, 2014)

How has that troll not been perma banned yet?


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## narad (Jan 26, 2014)

Blackhearted said:


> Also, I regularly tell people that Jimi Hendrix and The Beatles are the most overrated guitarist and band in musical history. I understand the justifiable respect that they're owed for musical innovation, but they're not particularly skilled musicians, and certainly don't deserve to be called "the best."



Was Newton a better mathematician than Euclid? It should be obvious that you can't directly compare musicians who live half a century apart -- this is especially true if that century is 1900-2000 and the genre is rock music. Some are pioneers and others are just carrying the torch a little further.

Of course, it would have been very interesting if someone like Malmsteen just happened to exist in 1960 as a completely independent development of rock music, but in reality progress is mostly incremental.


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## source field (Jan 26, 2014)

Welcome to the internet, some people are like the Ku Klux Klan of music critics, 
It happens everywhere: "Jimi Hendrix is overrated because he's sloppy", "Jimmy Page only play pentatonics", "Steve Vai feels exaggerated, over-the top", "Guthrie Govan is overrated because harmonic vocabulary is limited compared to the jazz greats", "Yngwie is overrated because he overuses harmonic minor", blah blah.


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## Don Vito (Jan 26, 2014)

Jerry Seinfeld is overrated as f_u_ck. Guy can't even sweep.


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## Spectre 1 (Jan 26, 2014)

Don Vito said:


> Jerry Seinfeld is overrated as f_u_ck. Guy can't even sweep.



No broom for you!


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## Joose (Jan 26, 2014)

I just wanted to come back and say Zakk Wylde again.


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## CALLmeSANCHEZ (Jan 26, 2014)

^^^^ hahahahahahahaaa


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## edsped (Jan 27, 2014)

guitarfan85 said:


> Satriani is overrated. He is but a mere studio/session musician to me. His tone sucks too. Ibanez lead tone usually sucks. Swatch, gilbert, vai. Great players. Crap tone


Those damn Ibanez lead tones.


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## Guthrielicious (Jan 27, 2014)

Orianthi


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## patata (Jan 27, 2014)

All the guys on the internet that got endorsed by either Fractal/Gruvgear/BKP.
By that I mean,Ryan Siew(the AussieChinese guy),Francesco Filigoi(nothing against him,just weird that he got endorsed from so many brands with only 2 minutes of his music online),Misha Mansoor,ALL these J rock dudes ESP has.


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## CloudAC (Jan 27, 2014)

ITT : We name every guitarist ever


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## dudeskin (Jan 27, 2014)

slash..... fin.


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## kevdes93 (Jan 27, 2014)

Misha. Guys a great player but goddamn a lot of people worship the .... out of him and i just dont get it


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## TheBloodstained (Jan 27, 2014)

kevdes93 said:


> Misha. Guys a great player but goddamn a lot of people worship the .... out of him and i just dont get it


I think many people worship him for his ability to write good, catchy and interesting music rather than his ability to play it. That's why I worship him


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## Chuck (Jan 27, 2014)

Misha is one of my favorites simply because his playing is so distinguishable, which is certainly a major plus in metal these days. He doesn't sound quite like anyone else, IMO.


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## Kullerbytta (Jan 27, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Misha is one of my favorites simply because his playing is so distinguishable, which is certainly a major plus in metal these days. He doesn't sound quite like anyone else, IMO.



Makes sense to me.
I'm not a fan of him or Periphery, but I can certainly appreciate his music and playing but I don't necessarily 'care' about the music, if that makes sense 

There's actually few bands that I truly 'care' about and listen to a lot.

But yeah, Misha is cool and so are his songs, but I think Merrow (for instance) is cooler and makes cooler songs.


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## Nats (Jan 27, 2014)

A7X gets praise because most of their fans, guys and girls alike, have raccoon eye makeup. That says a lot about their ability to judge guitarists right there.


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## Goro923 (Jan 27, 2014)

I second the Zakk Wylde statement, and up it with a Michael Amott.


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## ReznoERG (Jan 27, 2014)

#1 for me? 

Michael Angelo Batio ~ All I ever hear from him is just complete shred and nothing incredibly soulful and melodic that speaks to me.

Another one would be John 5 too actually.

And Dave Mustaine....

To each their own I guess.


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## Andromalia (Jan 27, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Misha is one of my favorites simply because his playing is so distinguishable, which is certainly a major plus in metal these days. He doesn't sound quite like anyone else, IMO.


Neither does Kirk Whammet, who is so overrated it's not even funny.


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## Nats (Jan 27, 2014)

guitareben said:


> I'm not sure this is a... healthy sort of thread...  Kinda a bit negative XD



Well the Whambulance just shut down the overrated product thread, so maybe this one's right behind...


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## -42- (Jan 28, 2014)

Matt1the3Beast said:


> Lol do NOT group jimi hendrix and the beatles together. Jimi takes a giant turd on the beatles in every way.Plus he pioneered the hybrid rythmn/lead playing seen in many bands today(including Periphery).


I'm sorry but the fact that you're using Periphery to validate the artistic merit of Jimi Hendrix is making me


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## Vinny530 (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't think it's really fair to say anybody is overrated. These people have worked hard (regardless if they can play through every mode at 7000BPM) and have secured themselves a place in the music entertainment community. everybody has something different to offer, it will always be up to the listener to decide for themselves what is pleasing to listen to.


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## GSingleton (Jan 28, 2014)

Zakk, Slash, Dave....basically anyone that fits into those genres haha

I do love some steel panther though.


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## Randy (Jan 28, 2014)

Nats said:


> Well the Whambulance just shut down the overrated product thread, so maybe this one's right behind...



Speak of the devil, yadda yadda.

Thread stayed open because it was surprisingly civil but if we're looking to be fair, fine, this one goes too.


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