# Prejudice against ERGs?



## BlackStar7 (Jan 22, 2011)

I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere (couldn't find it on here), but I had to share this: 

I know this guy claims to be joking (and if the responses are any indication, most people don't seem too amused), but his attitude seems to be reflective of real animosity I've seen towards ERGs mainly outside of SS.org. I'm baffled by how people are so closed off to the possibilities these instruments present, much less how many of them seem almost personally affronted by their very existence. Has anyone else noticed a certain amount of contempt?

It seems like people always want to excuse anything new as a "fad." I know the 7 string was viewed that way for a long time, and probably still is by some, but it's clearly here to stay. Has anyone here had firsthand experience with bias against their ERGs?


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## bostjan (Jan 22, 2011)

Yeah this was posted here a few months ago and there was a very mixed response.

Either way, this represents the attitude of most music store/shop workers toward 8 strings.


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## JeffFromMtl (Jan 22, 2011)

Back when the RG2228 first hit markets I saw and heard a lot of people knocking 8-string guitars with the "well, don't you think that's a little excessive?" bit. But ever since I got my 8-string, nobody's said a single bad word about it. Generally, the responses I've gotten are along the lines of "fuck, is that thing ever cool!".


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## Van Heezey (Jan 22, 2011)

bostjan said:


> Either way, this represents the attitude of most music store/shop workers toward 8 strings.




Well, I'm really glad my local shop DOES carry a few 7's, and they encourage me to get an 8, just because they know I want one and they would really like to try it out. They're actually open minded, and most of them are blue and jazz players anyways. Gotta love decent people, no?


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## op1e (Jan 22, 2011)

"DUGH why dont you jus play a bass?" is what every GC noob behind the counter says. Les Pauls tuned to C fellas, or drop D. Nothing else exists or has a purpose in this world. Why would ya wanna be able to still strum a full G chord and still hit a lower register all on one instrument? I wont give business to anyone who looks at me funny for playing 7s.


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## kylendm (Jan 22, 2011)

My girlfriend was like that but once I played a few of my songs and Aspiration by After the Burial she understood what good it could do.


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

I co-op at a music instrument store, and all my coworkers always say stuff that annoys me like "7 strings? Tuning low? Drop tuning? Double bass pedals? Kids these days..." Even though the two guys who say stuff like this are 21 and 26, so not old at all. It's just that they're either classic rock lovers or folkies, which is cool, I don't really care what they listen to until they start bashing people who want to go beyond three fucking chords. Annoys the shit out of me. I play a 7, but even if I didn't I'd still get annoyed. 

The only thing that I don't find acceptable is if someone gets an 8 string, tunes it an octave lower than standard, and only uses the lowest two strings to chug. Seriously, fuck off. Get a thirty inch scale two string guitar and chug away. But if you get an 8 string and use it like Tosin, or other fellows, then the purpose of getting an extended range guitar gets fulfilled.


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 22, 2011)

I don't get what it is about music stores that leads to employees having such codified and often overly vocal opinions about the musical pursuits of others. Having been on both sides of the counter, I can say in their defense they deal with some pretty thickheaded customers, but man that kinda behavior is just unnecessary and drives away business. I've had to walk out of GC for comments exactly like those above on more than one occasion when looking for a 7.


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## troyguitar (Jan 22, 2011)

They're seen as pointless because many (if not most) people who use them only use the low strings anyway so there's no point in them having more strings.


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## failshredder (Jan 22, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> They're seen as pointless because many (if not most) people who use them only use the low strings anyway so there's no point in them having more strings.



QFT.

Plus, the guitar is intended to be a midrange instrument. It sits in a specific range of frequencies, and I think that in most cases, 7 strings is already pushing it. Despite being a pure guitarist (I can write basslines in a common-practice Romantic sort of way, but whatever), I _really, really_ like being able to hear the bass as a separate instrument on an album. This is what makes Rust in Peace and Traced in Air such good albums.

Now, bands like AAL and Meshuggah are really cool, but Meshuggah is a one-trick pony, and AAL is, while _really awesome_, kind of "empty"-sounding to me - because the guitars are invading the bass range, and the mids wind up a little weak in the mix, like dance music. Sure, there's stuff like the sweeping lick in CAFO, but that tends to be in an upper register. Get what I mean?


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## WickedSymphony (Jan 22, 2011)

^ That would kind of depend on the arrangement as well. For example, when I write chord lines that are low (I only play 7 strings in standard at the moment, mind you, so there isn't too much cross over for me), I give the bass a more melodic line to help fill things out and also keep things interesting.


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## vansinn (Jan 22, 2011)

How do I put it..it never amazes me how so many can willfully blind their eyes towards evolution.
Take a look a couple hundred years back, and see how much the guitar has changed.
Would be a pity if it development had stopped with a certain '59 mahogany slab, as great as it is in it's own right.

While of course there's absolutely nothing wrong with a traditional 6-stringer, at least having just the curiosity to ask what 8(+) strings just _might_ be used for really doesn't hurt.. 
Just might open the eyes to ERG's not just being for lower tunings, but also very much for expanded versatility.

I'm truely gratefull for having found this great community of openhearted players and luthiers, opening my eyes further that I might've managed myself 

Talking about music shops, I'm very happy that, even with such a small potential market here in Copenhagen, our main shop over the past couple of years have carried several sevens, like Schecters and Ibbys, and has had RGA8 and RG2228.

Fun.. many bass players seems much more openhearted and interested in expanding their world of musical creativity.


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## WickedSymphony (Jan 22, 2011)

Yeh, I wonder if 6 string basses get as much hate as 8 string guitars. It's still only 2 extra strings


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## failshredder (Jan 22, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> ^ That would kind of depend on the arrangement as well. For example, when I write chord lines that are low (I only play 7 strings in standard at the moment, mind you, so there isn't too much cross over for me), I give the bass a more melodic line to help fill things out and also keep things interesting.



Yeah, that works. But the bass is _supposed_ to have a more melodic line than it's normally given anyway. And if you're playing 7s in standard, you're not pushing it low enough for it to make a difference (to my ears).


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## arsonist (Jan 22, 2011)

I honestly think this is the most retarded conversation topic ever. 

I've already seen another thread with some dude whining about how the other guitarist in his band is so totally completely against 8-string guitars, and how bad this makes him feel.

No matter what you do in the world, whatever that may be, there's absolutely no difference, there _*WILL BE*_ someone who doesn't like what you're doing. This is an *absolutely fundamental* *law of the universe*, something which should simply be accepted as fact, then move on.

Some people just like hating on stuff, and often there's absolutely nothing you can say which changes that. You could spit all the arguments, proof, subjective thoughts and objective facts, and it won't matter.

You could go to work in your underwear, give money to cancer patients, find a cure for AIDS or just sit around and do nothing, but either way, there will be at least 1 douchebag who thinks "that sh*t is whack!". get over it.


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## rug (Jan 22, 2011)

I dunno - I thought it was fairly entertaining, especially with the dude's accent. I really wouldn't worry too much about people who think like that. It's like everything else - *very* loosely speaking, the younger generation is just going to be more progressive than the generation before. Slavery, voting rights for women, gay marriage, take your pick. So all the old dudes that are pissed that Skynard isn't popular anymore will gradually dwindle in number. Yeah, I know that's a harsh way to put it, but I'm not going to let a Youtube video take the shine off of my day. 

Besides...I'm sure there has got to be more than one person who watched the video who didn't know anything about 8 string guitars and now wants one.


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## bostjan (Jan 22, 2011)

Kids these days and their electrical guitars and trap drum kits! Why, back in my day, it took four people to play drums! And the only electrical guitar players were playing Hawaiian-style, by George!

...

I laugh now, but some day I'll be the crotchety old man saying how back in my salad days we played seven and eight string guitars, and we drove cars everywhere, and nearly everyone could own a house...


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

I laughed until my stomach hurt from that video when I first watched it. The difference between that video, and the people I work with is that the people I work are genuinely _hostile_ to anything that isn't traditional. Hostile to the point where I just want to walk away from the place. 

The one time (a bit off topic), the two were talking about bringing back psychedelic music, and the one said "we'll just wait until all the metalheads die out so we can bring it back." I was so close to punching the guy in the mouth.


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## Explorer (Jan 22, 2011)

failshredder said:


> Plus, the guitar is intended to be a midrange instrument. It sits in a specific range of frequencies, and I think that in most cases, 7 strings is already pushing it.
> 
> ...AAL is, while _really awesome_, kind of "empty"-sounding to me - because the guitars are invading the bass range, and the mids wind up a little weak in the mix, like dance music. Sure, there's stuff like the sweeping lick in CAFO, but that tends to be in an upper register. Get what I mean?



Is my guitar meant to be a midrange instrument? I didn't know that! The warning labels must have been removed by someone else before I got it! *laugh*

Seriously, though, *who* intended guitar to be a midrange instrument? And, if intentions have weight, wasn't it intended to be an acoustic instrument, with gut strings? *laugh*

My eight-strings have a range of an electric bass and an electric guitar. With effects, I use it to emulate and cover parts for double bass, cello, viola and violin, as well as wind instruments. 

I also follow the examples and playing of Leo Nocentelli, and use my instruments to do a style of funky interlocking bass/guitar parts. 

I'll point out that the range issue is something which decent producers and arrangers deal with all the time. One has to leave space for the various parts and timbres. However, that's more an issue of being intelligent about arrangement. As I'm a huge fan of Kansas and other prog bands, I can't help but notice that a lot of the instruments occupy a similar pitch range, but the recordings are still amazing. 

It's reasonable to ask about whether a group manages to do clear recordings, but I believe that raising the question of "intention" on the part of an instrument designer, as opposed to the intention of the musician who is utilizing that instrument, is a non-starter. Remember, Andreas Segovia had strong feelings about Jimi Hendrix violating the intention of the original guitar, and most of us here are descendents of that branch of the guitar family tree on which Hendrix resides. *laugh*

And, of course, Segovia also broke a lot of rules, the greatest irony of all when he was making judgements. 

Cheers!


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## clouds (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> The one time (a bit off topic), the two were talking about bringing back psychedelic music, and the one said "we'll just wait until all the metalheads die out so we can bring it back." I was so close to punching the guy in the mouth.


Wtf? 

This thread has really made me want to go to a few of my locals and strike up some conversations about ERGs, to see their reactions.


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## SkullCrusher (Jan 22, 2011)

I bet he wasn't joking at the time of the video, and has realised he's a bastard.


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## Explorer (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> The one time (a bit off topic), the two were talking about bringing back psychedelic music, and the one said "we'll just wait until all the metalheads die out so we can bring it back." I was so close to punching the guy in the mouth.



"Dude, if people actually *wanted* to hear that hippie shit, you wouldn't have to wait until something else died out. It's called survival of the fittest. That's why there aren't so many Deadhead bands around. ...Oh, wait! I bet it's the acid talking!"

*laugh*


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

clouds said:


> Wtf?
> 
> This thread has really made me want to go to a few of my locals and strike up some conversations about ERGs, to see their reactions.



My sentiments exactly. They always pick on me for being a "metalhead", even though I listen to and enjoy jazz, blues, classical music (I've played cello for two years), funk, a lot of electronic music and a whole other range of music. They don't see that. They just see me as the generic metal guy who breathes metal and plays a sevenstring just so he can chug, etc. 

Ironically enough, I only stated I like metal the first day I worked there, and never mentioned it ever again. I haven't said anything about metal since because they think metal = scene kids playing breakdowns and that I'm like those kids. Every once in a while they'll be like "why don't you ever hang out with girls? What's with metal dudes only hanging out with guys?" This was uncalled for, they asked me if I go to bars with the ladies, and I said no because I'm 18 and I can't get into bars (need to be 19 to get in), and they instantly pulled that shit on me.

A week or two ago the one guy started ripping into touchstyle guitar playing when I put on:


He said that's not the way guitar is meant to be played and that it sucks. So much rage. But I've learned to stop caring.

What neither of them knows is that I bought a sevenstring so I can get a _higher _string.


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## bostjan (Jan 22, 2011)

I don't hear too many flautists complaining about people who get the extra low B on their flutes.

I do hear some pianists complain about people who play Bosendorfers. though. Maybe it depends on the crowd. I can see how a seven string or even an eight string would be great for a country picker. In fact, the first seven string guitarist I ever heard of was Bucky Pizzarelli, and the first eight string player I ever saw was Charlie Hunter. These jazz guys were playing ERG long before they were introduced into metal, ... but I think all that matters to some of these music store guys (and everyone is different, just making sweeping generalizations here) is that Jimi Hendrix didn't play a seven string, so why the hell should anyone else?!


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## op1e (Jan 22, 2011)

I bet that guy knows 2 riffs...the one from Sling Blade and the banjo part from deliverance. "Randy, ya tunin sumbitch!!!"


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## The Reverend (Jan 22, 2011)

You know, if someone gets an ERG for chugging, that's okay. They're using one of the unique qualities of the instrument to their advantage. We have to be careful not to turn into the kind of people this thread is about! 

I think true progression in music comes from using instruments in ways they weren't specifically designed for.

In all aspects of your life, NO SHAME . Like your music, and let haters hate.


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## vansinn (Jan 22, 2011)

Boy, am I glad that I in my early teens took the firm decision to never stop being interested in what's new and hot - due to my parent's never being interested in anything new (no pun on them). These days they just about only care about Deutche Schlager Paraden 

I'm 53 now, play hard rock, progressive metal, progressive jazz fusion, love classical, ethnic, african drums, arab and indian music, bebob jazz...
Though still only playing 6'ers and 7's bass, can hardly wait for my first 8-stringer 

_..it's good knowing your past and live in the present, but keep moving on, or risk getting left behind.._


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## highlordmugfug (Jan 22, 2011)

Arkanedemon, sounds like you work with a bunch of fucking idiots. Aka: Dim witted cunts.


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## Guitarman700 (Jan 22, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> You know, if someone gets an ERG for chugging, that's okay. They're using one of the unique qualities of the instrument to their advantage. We have to be careful not to turn into the kind of people this thread is about!
> 
> I think true progression in music comes from using instruments in ways they weren't specifically designed for.
> 
> In all aspects of your life, NO SHAME . Like your music, and let haters hate.


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## SirMyghin (Jan 22, 2011)

Any prejudice to ERGs exist because 7 string guitars are a gateway instrument. You get that extra string, then you are fine for a while, then you think I need to go deeper. Then you get an 8ths string, but you still are satisfied, this one doesn't have the high that last one did. So you get another, and another. Next thing you know string changes cost more than the guitar did, because you have a 25/40" fanned fret 15 string guitar.


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## Demiurge (Jan 22, 2011)

Let's face it: most music stores are like the book stores you go into with a "staff picks" section featuring Twilight, Dan Brown, and cook books. It's a retail store staffed with retail people, and only 10% of the people working at these establishments are there because they care/know about/have an open mind about the product.


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

vansinn said:


> _..it's good knowing your past and live in the present, but keep moving on, or risk getting left behind.._



Great quote.



highlordmugfug said:


> Arkanedemon, sounds like you work with a bunch of fucking idiots. Aka: Dim witted cunts.



Only when it comes to music. They always throw around the quote "different strokes for different folks" unless it's something they don't like, in which case the thing sucks. It defies the point of throwing the quote around.

They're pretty cool guys otherwise. The only difference is that when I don't like something of theirs, I keep my mouth shut. They don't. When fifteen year olds come into the store and plug in a guitar and start playing drop D metalcore-type riffs, they always say "why don't you go talk to that guy, maybe you can start a band with him!" Even though I told them repeatedly I don't like that stuff, to which they come back with "but it's metal," like that's what all of metal encompasses.

Another story: so I was sitting around with the one guy, and we're talking about Kijiji (we both use it to find bands, musicians, etc). He says "man, I don't understand how you find musicians." I was a bit curious, so I asked him what he meant. "It's because your genre is a joke! *laugh*"


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## highlordmugfug (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Only when it comes to music. They always throw around the quote "different strokes for different folks" unless it's something they don't like, in which case the thing sucks. It defies the point of throwing the quote around.
> 
> They're pretty cool guys otherwise. *The only difference is that when I don't like something of theirs, I keep my mouth shut. They don't. When fifteen year olds come into the store and plug in a guitar and start playing drop D metalcore-type riffs, they always say "why don't you go talk to that guy, maybe you can start a band with him!" Even though I told them repeatedly I don't like that stuff, to which they come back with "but it's metal," like that's what all of metal encompasses.
> 
> Another story: so I was sitting around with the one guy, and we're talking about Kijiji (we both use it to find bands, musicians, etc). He says "man, I don't understand how you find musicians." I was a bit curious, so I asked him what he meant. "It's because your genre is a joke! *laugh*"*


May I suggest:






That's really rude, stupid, and inconsiderate. Fuck stupid people. [/low_tolerance_of_douchebaggery]


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## Double A (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> I laughed until my stomach hurt from that video when I first watched it. The difference between that video, and the people I work with is that the people I work are genuinely _hostile_ to anything that isn't traditional. Hostile to the point where I just want to walk away from the place.
> 
> The one time (a bit off topic), the two were talking about bringing back psychedelic music, and the one said "we'll just wait until all the metalheads die out so we can bring it back." I was so close to punching the guy in the mouth.


Not to get off topic but there is tons and tons of new psychedelic style rock out there if they would just care to look for it.


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

^ Holy fuck that hammer is awesome. But I think I want to get a third fist on there, you know, to get more _range.


_


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

Double Post. Oops.


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## highlordmugfug (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> ^ Holy fuck that hammer is awesome. But I think I want to get a third fist on there, you know, to get more _range.
> 
> 
> _




All the old construction workers will make fun of you just like the guys you work with now.


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## Rick (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm anti-6 string, actually.


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## yellowv (Jan 22, 2011)

I remember years ago how people would look at me like I was a retard when I was trying to poece together strings sets for my 7 10 or so years ago. Just ignorance. Actually the last time I got strings for my 8 locally they were quite interested in it, though.


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## failshredder (Jan 22, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Is my guitar meant to be a midrange instrument? I didn't know that! The warning labels must have been removed by someone else before I got it! *laugh*
> 
> Seriously, though, *who* intended guitar to be a midrange instrument? And, if intentions have weight, wasn't it intended to be an acoustic instrument, with gut strings? *laugh*



This is an excellent point. If I were to rewrite that post, I'd replace "meant to be" with "sounds best to my totally awesome ears as." 



> My eight-strings have a range of an electric bass and an electric guitar. With effects, I use it to emulate and cover parts for double bass, cello, viola and violin, as well as wind instruments.
> 
> I also follow the examples and playing of Leo Nocentelli, and use my instruments to do a style of funky interlocking bass/guitar parts.
> 
> ...



Curses, foiled again. Yousa point is well-taken. Just... please keep in mind that I'm not trying to tell you what you can and can't do. If you come up with something that sounds good to me that does away with actually having bassists in the band, hell, more power to you! I just tend to think in terms of (read: vaguely influenced by) common-practice period part-writing, where the instruments are _not_ supposed to invade one another's ranges. And yes, I do have the knowledge of tonal harmony to know what that means. For the most part. *chuckle*


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## op1e (Jan 22, 2011)

Last bassist we had was a 4 stringer. It actually sounded great with him moving around in higher octaves than us while we played in A or C.


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## potatohead (Jan 22, 2011)

No offense to anyone, but this guy is EXACTLY how I view middle aged people in the south. Completely closed off to anything that they don't know, basically the most ignorant people on planet earth. The kind of people that can't find the USA on a map of the earth. The kind of people that still think a '67 Camaro is the fastest car ever made even though by today's standards, it's a slow pig. 

I don't even have a seven string, let alone an eight, but this kind of thinking is so annoying. If everybody thought this way we'd still be running around in animal hides chasing things with spears and rocks.


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## WickedSymphony (Jan 22, 2011)

potatohead said:


> If everybody thought this way we'd still be running around in animal hides chasing things with spears and rocks.



Yeah, but how fucking metal would that be?


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## potatohead (Jan 22, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Yeah, but how fucking metal would that be?


 
Yeah, that's true

lol


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## 13point9 (Jan 22, 2011)

oh theres a second video that cements his opinion...



Love how the 1st clip is Broderick playing a 7...


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

His facial expressions are priceless


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## failshredder (Jan 22, 2011)

He's obviously trolling, and it's actually funny. Particularly since Broderick's sound in that tapping clip is pretty damn awful.


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## 13point9 (Jan 22, 2011)

theres another one where he got a triple neck, he curses the gods on that one hahaha


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## ArkaneDemon (Jan 22, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Yeah, but how fucking metal would that be?



Not nearly as metal as verbally blast beating and wearing corpsepaint while hunting. Going up to a deer looking like Gaahl while yelling BRATATATATATATATATA and throwing a spear right through the deer's left eye. Can't possibly get more metal than _that._


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## Eric Christian (Jan 22, 2011)

Bottom line is a certain percentage of people like to sit around and complain and shit that doesn't really have any effect on them. Generally, I've found that they are shallow and empty individuals that typically lead really boring lives. They like to try to start arguments about stuff like politics and religion because they are just really unhappy people. The best policy is to just isolate and ignore or perhaps just smile & nod. If they put you on the spot always say you don't know enough about the subject to form an opinion then politely excuse yourself to the restroom.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 22, 2011)

potatohead said:


> No offense to anyone, but this guy is EXACTLY how I view middle aged people in the south. Completely closed off to anything that they don't know, basically the most ignorant people on planet earth. The kind of people that can't find the USA on a map of the earth. The kind of people that still think a '67 Camaro is the fastest car ever made even though by today's standards, it's a slow pig.
> 
> I don't even have a seven string, let alone an eight, but this kind of thinking is so annoying. If everybody thought this way we'd still be running around in animal hides chasing things with spears and rocks.



It grinds my gears.


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## bostjan (Jan 22, 2011)

So if I post two clips of people sucking at playing six string guitar, a clip of someone playing six string with a brittle tone, and a clip of someone rocking a riff that is in a genre that I don't really like, it proves that six string guitars are all crap, right?


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 22, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> They always pick on me for being a "metalhead", even though I listen to and enjoy jazz, blues, classical music (I've played cello for two years), funk, a lot of electronic music and a whole other range of music. They don't see that. They just see me as the generic metal guy who breathes metal and plays a sevenstring just so he can chug, etc....
> 
> He said that's not the way guitar is meant to be played and that it sucks.


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## highlordmugfug (Jan 22, 2011)

bostjan said:


> So if I post two clips of people sucking at playing six string guitar, a clip of someone playing six string with a brittle tone, and a clip of someone rocking a riff that is in a genre that I don't really like, it proves that six string guitars are all crap, right?


Now you're getting it. Especially if you say that one of the clips has a guitar with more strings than it actually does it. It adds to your credibility. 

People who know how to count are far too advanced to be trusted.
Goddamn elitists.


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## Zamm Bell (Jan 22, 2011)

One day Tosin Abasi will walk into that guitar shop guys bedroom whilst he sleeps and comb that guys hair.


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 22, 2011)

bostjan said:


> So if I post two clips of people sucking at playing six string guitar, a clip of someone playing six string with a brittle tone, and a clip of someone rocking a riff that is in a genre that I don't really like, it proves that six string guitars are all crap, right?


Well said. I guess the video dude is just trolling, but what a poor way to make a point. Forgive my unscientific observation, but I feel like the average 8 string video on youtube, if nothing else, usually exceeds the technical ability on display of your average 6. Maybe I'm totally off base, and granted it's a much smaller sample size, but it seems like you have to have some idea what you're doing to even pick the thing up. Not that there aren't people who suck (i.e., me), but that is a lot of fretboard to manage when you're totally noobish. 



Zamm Bell said:


> One day Tosin Abasi will walk into that guitar shop guys bedroom whilst he sleeps and comb that guys hair.


I could not be further OT, but man does this comment remind me of this classic nedroid:
http://nedroid.com/imagesb/beartato-chinese.gif

Maybe, just maybe, if I behave myself this year, Tosin will visit me while I sleep and brush my hair. Anyone want to propose a date for this national holiday?


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## gulli05 (Jan 23, 2011)

The guy in that video is just trolling and making fun of people and their guitars. He does it with pretty much 98% of every video he does.

He actually had a triple neck guitar with 6-string, 7-string and 12-string on it. It was damn hilarious!  I admit he failed a bit much at joking in the 8-string videos. He delivers his jokes the wrong way and it sounds rather insulting but he's just making jokes.


Although some people are like "Why would you need a 7-string or an 8-string?!" I think it's mainly because they don't understand it.
Alot of people seem to say their local guitar shops have guys with predjudice against extended range. Well, I just ordered my ESP 7-string and the guys at my local music store just thought it was called. It might be the fact the any music store in Iceland doesn't have just anyone working there. Usually you got musicians working there that are open minded.


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## Siphaeon (Jan 23, 2011)

Actually we need only 4 chords so even 6-string guitars are out of bounds.




Really, in the end it is pointless to let other peoples opinions affect you and how you think. There is no "way supposed to to be played" be it a guitar, bass, drums or *insert-any-instrument-here*. Or range for that matter. I've seen people play violin through a multieffect, Hammond organ hooked into Marshall tube amp, drums being played with two double bass pedals, complete song done with editing single sound sample, etc.
It's all about being creative and doing your own thing. If there's even one who likes it, it was worth doing. 

Opinions are like farts: Everybody has them though other peoples farts smell bad but your own in some perverse way smells good


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## bostjan (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm surprised that five string violin/viola hybrids have not become more popular as extended range instruments.


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## Matt-Hatchett (Jan 23, 2011)

kylendm said:


> My girlfriend was like that but once I played a few of my songs and Aspiration by After the Burial she understood what good it could do.




You were playing your guitar in the kitchen? 

^(Sexist joke, not meant to be taken seriously)


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## Explorer (Jan 23, 2011)

bostjan said:


> I'm surprised that five string violin/viola hybrids have not become more popular as extended range instruments.



I know a huge amount of dance fiddlers who have restrung a viola with five strings. It's not so uncommon. 

And, of course, I own a 6-string violin....


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 24, 2011)

Anything is possible.


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## kevyp12 (Jan 24, 2011)

the vid made me lol haha


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## ibbyfreak13 (Jan 24, 2011)

I work at GC and catch hell for 2 main reasons, first I'm an Ibanez fan and for playing 7's. I have learned most guitarist are snotty elitist and if it's not a traditional Gibson or fender they will bitch. But it is funny that now they all come to me to help take in used ibanez guitars cause they don't know shit and will lose sales to send me anything erg related because they don't want to deal with it, which is cool with me cause the ibanez fans ESP/ ltd guys and Jackson, as well as erg players are cooler to deal with than the elitists anyways.


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## ZEBOV (Jan 25, 2011)

I have this problem all the time. I don't like the traditional number of strings because it's simply not enough for the number of tunings I play in. I'm called a string whore for playing with more than the traditional number of strings. The 2 bassists I know also don't like tuning any lower than the standard EADG. Since I play a 5 string bass, I hear "More than 4, you're a string whore." Memphis is full of traditional people (who are younger than me) and drop C metalcore, which I can't stand drop C because it's so overdone.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 25, 2011)

Prejudice? Fuck 'em.

If you let it get to you, you've cornered yourself.

Learn to not care what people think. When one considers man's existence on this planet, such matters are exposed as extremely trivial.


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## heir of godwulf (Jan 25, 2011)

op1e said:


> "DUGH why dont you jus play a bass?" is what every GC noob behind the counter says. Les Pauls tuned to C fellas, or drop D. Nothing else exists or has a purpose in this world. Why would ya wanna be able to still strum a full G chord and still hit a lower register all on one instrument? I wont give business to anyone who looks at me funny for playing 7s.



I can't believe how many times I've heard that. It sucks listening to people who really don't know what they are talking about. Or how they get a really confused and retarded look on their face when I ask if they have a string thicker than .058!


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## Aerospace274 (Jan 25, 2011)

Yeah, I caught that "We don't like yer kind in these parts" vibe at my local shop just asking about an 8 string! The kid working was like "Yeah, i'm actually the only guy that works here that doesn't think tuning like that is complete bullshit..." Can't wait to bust in there with an Agile in March and ask for strings lol


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## CONTEMPT (Jan 26, 2011)

my favorite thing about ERG hate is that even eight strings add less than an octave lower than standard guitars.


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## anne (Jan 26, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> Yeah, I caught that "We don't like yer kind in these parts" vibe at my local shop just asking about an 8 string! The kid working was like "Yeah, i'm actually the only guy that works here that doesn't think tuning like that is complete bullshit..." Can't wait to bust in there with an Agile in March and ask for strings lol



Even trying to get fatter gauges for a sixer was non-ideal and expensive around here. F 'em -- they have no idea what they're doing if it isn't already in a package, on the wall, and they can hand it to you. I buy online now and get exactly what I want.


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 26, 2011)

13point9 said:


> oh theres a second video that cements his opinion...
> 
> 
> 
> Love how the 1st clip is Broderick playing a 7...




1. He looks like the paedophile from Prison Break
2. He rips on keith merrow (that was keith merrow wasnt it?)...

what a piece of shit.


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## arsonist (Jan 26, 2011)

LamaSabachthani said:


> 1. He looks like the paedophile from Prison Break
> 2. He rips on keith merrow (that was keith merrow wasnt it?)...
> 
> what a piece of shit.



quite some sarcasm ya got there fella


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## Infamous Impact (Jan 26, 2011)

It's strange how I haven't met too many people that are against ERGs. Every time I go to a GC in my area the people there are usually pretty interested about 7 strings. They only person who hates on me for even having an ERG is my guitar teacher, and he just pokes fun at it while owning a green dot and an S7420.


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## XEN (Jan 26, 2011)

bostjan said:


> I'm surprised that five string violin/viola hybrids have not become more popular as extended range instruments.


Unfortunately most string players stick to playing music which is composed for "standard" instruments.
I wish the viola da gamba were more popular. They're beautiful instruments.

Back on topic, this is a discussion we've encountered many times here.

Bottom line: I can't stand being pigeon-holed into a role. As a guitar synth player and ERG lover I don't really fit into any of the mainstream molds. A standard scale 6 string through a VG/Synth setup can be anything you want it to be. Range is irrelevant.

But then again, speaking of prejudice, not too many people take you seriously when your guitar sounds like wind chimes and rain sticks. 

Frankly, I'd love to see a band with nothing but 10 string guitars with all of the players trading off the various roles. I believe that it would diminish the emphasis placed on the individual musicians and help promote the importance of the group, and possibly place more focus on the music.


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## angus (Jan 26, 2011)

WickedSymphony said:


> Yeh, I wonder if 6 string basses get as much hate as 8 string guitars. It's still only 2 extra strings



For what it's worth, yeah, they still do a little bit, and they CERTAINLY do in the industry outside of bass players. These days, though, bass player hate has been ported from 6 strings to 7+ strings.


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 26, 2011)

All_¥our_Bass;2307511 said:


> It grinds my gears.



In the South? of the USA? I'm pretty sure he sounded very Canadian to my ears

EDIT: Apologies...quoted the wrong user


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 26, 2011)

arsonist said:


> quite some sarcasm ya got there fella



Is that in and of itself sarcastic? Your comment, that is.

I thought I was generally just being hateful towards the guy in the OP's video.


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## ZEBOV (Jan 26, 2011)

angus said:


> For what it's worth, yeah, they still do a little bit, and they CERTAINLY do in the industry outside of bass players. These days, though, bass player hate has been ported from 6 strings to 7+ strings.


I only catch flak from other bass players, and I play a 5 string. I don't know any bassists that play with more than 4 strings.
"More than 4, you're a string whore."


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## angus (Jan 26, 2011)

You must hang around lots of old people. They're the ones who have the "more than 4..." attitude, generally. That, and guitarists who tend to play Fenders. 

In the bass community as a whole, they're very accepting of 5, pretty accepting of 6 (much more so than 10 years ago), but they're still fairly skeptical of 7+. Mostly because 99% of the people who play them...can't.


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## ZEBOV (Jan 26, 2011)

Actually the string whore attitude comes from people younger than me. I'm 22, and they're 18-20 and listen to a lot of older rock, like Boston, Rush, Foghat, etc. They simply have no need for more than 4.
I'm skeptical of 7 string basses simply because of the lack of available strings and the lack of pickups for 7 string basses.


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## angus (Jan 26, 2011)

Pretty much any available pickup for 4 strings is available for 7 strings if you ask- there is a lot available these days. 20 years ago, there wasn't, but now there is plenty. 

And almost every string maker makes strings for 7 strings+. The situation is pretty incredible these days. It's hard not to find strings for a 7 string! You just have to order online rather than going to guitar center.

Any 18 year old listening to lots of Foghat should not be considered a strong voice for any topic other than where to buy weed!


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## ZEBOV (Jan 26, 2011)

I always buy online. Sales tax sucks. I only go to GC to test gear. Everything there might as well be considered used rather than new because it's played by so many people per day.


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 26, 2011)

CONTEMPT said:


> my favorite thing about ERG hate is that even eight strings add less than an octave lower than standard guitars.


This is kinda what cracks me up about all the hate out there. People act like you've usurped the bassist or something. Looking through these responses reminded me of Tom Morello once saying in a GW interview that he hated 7 strings because "most of that stuff is played in ranges that only dogs can hear." Seems to be a pretty standard attitude.



urklvt said:


> But then again, speaking of prejudice, not too many people take you seriously when your guitar sounds like wind chimes and rain sticks.



Gotta reach new horizons man! Keep making those noises; to hell with everyone else. I'd take wind chimes and rain sticks over chugging and pinch harmonics any day.


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## groph (Jan 26, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Great quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They're just fucking around with you, so I recommend you start ripping on them and stop taking them seriously. They'll either get bored and stop, or you can have fun making fun of them as they have fun making fun of you.

I'll admit, I wanted a 7 string because I wanted to tune low, and I sold my 7 string because I only needed 6. My opinion is that if you want an 8 string, there is no natural force stopping you from buying one. You don't even need to use all of the range provided to you, though that sort of is the point of an extended range instrument. So ideally you would, but you don't have to. People who go "LOL GET A BASS LOL" should just take their own advice and get a bass. Then they'll realize that an ERG =/= a bass.


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## CONTEMPT (Jan 27, 2011)

BlackStar7 said:


> Looking through these responses reminded me of Tom Morello once saying in a GW interview that he hated 7 strings because "most of that stuff is played in ranges that only dogs can hear."



I find this quote amusing coming from the one guitarist in the world that chains together whammy pedals to create the ear-piercing-est, highest pitch tones possible.

/chuckle


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## freepower (Jan 27, 2011)

^ it's double funny considering he's happy to tune to Drop B for Maggie's Farm.


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## GATA4 (Jan 27, 2011)

The guy in the video is boring as fuck.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm guessing those Galveston 8 string basses with a low F# got hated in their day, you dont see too many of those any more, it is a real shame really they could have been good for todays styles of modern jazz, they were made too early for the music of the era IMO.


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 28, 2011)

CONTEMPT said:


> I find this quote amusing coming from the one guitarist in the world that chains together whammy pedals to create the ear-piercing-est, highest pitch tones possible.
> 
> /chuckle




Good point. I still like the guy though. He played his guitar way high up on its chest before it was...well, it's still pretty freaking nerdy, but dammit it's just so much more comfortable. 

And I didn't know Morello tuned to B for Maggie's farm. WTF is with everybody drop tuning to B or even A on a 6 string but shunning 7 strings?


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## Grank (Jan 28, 2011)

<snip>



BlackStar7 said:


> Has anyone here had firsthand experience with bias against their ERGs?



It's funny to me but I'm already biased towards six and seven strings. Well maybe not seven's but definitely six. I find it difficult going back to six at this time.


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## 101101110110001 (Jan 31, 2011)

&#1076;&#1072; &#1084;&#1091;&#1078;&#1080;&#1082; &#1074;&#1085;&#1072;&#1090;&#1091;&#1088;&#1077; &#1075;&#1086;&#1074;&#1085;&#1072; &#1087;&#1086;&#1077;&#1083;. &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086; &#1075;&#1086;&#1074;&#1085;&#1072;&#1088;&#1100; &#1086;&#1073;&#1099;&#1095;&#1085;&#1099;&#1081;. &#1085;&#1077; &#1089;&#1087;&#1086;&#1089;&#1086;&#1073;&#1085;&#1099;&#1081; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086;.


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## 101101110110001 (Jan 31, 2011)

Sorry. I`m just very angry. that man - shit-eater. If you don`t understand ERG\8str, don`t say nothing.


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## Variant (Feb 1, 2011)

You know, I'm probably a little late to the bitch fest here, but I'll put in my two cents:

The usual spiel from traditional standard-tuning, 6'er guys against ERG'ers is the whole 'guitar is a midrange instrument' BS.  Frankly, the solidbody electric guitar, especially in the context of an overdriven amp & speakers (real or simulated) is, in practice, an instrument of harmonic overtones, as well as one of filtered content (imparted by the amp & speakers, and generally in mixing), and that _*INCLUDES*_ six string guitars tuned to E2.  The fundamental isn't doing a lot of work there, not for Angus Young or Fredrik Thordendal. Fact is, most bedroom blueswankers know *F-U-C-K-A-L-L* about mixing, and even less about mixing detuned metal. 

That's why the whole, *"Just get a bass!"*, and _*"You're stepping all over bass player territory!"*_ are bunk comments in most situations, IMHO.




You can push on those frequencies with an EQ if you want too, but they'll generally sound like turd in a mix, and you're far better off getting a bass-guitar/synth into the right pocket to carry the weight around the fundamentals. I'd even argue that you could do it all on one instrument (an Ibanez SR7VIISC, for example) but you still need to significantly change your signal path from one of a guitar nature to one of a bass nature to optimally composite the sounds.  Tuning down is about changing the sound of the guitar, not changing the frequencies being pushed. 





I mean, when it comes to going low, I'm pretty sure I'm in the range of the extreme, as seen by my demented project here... 



...but the fact is, as low as I've gone (G0, on the guitar itself, the above pic is lower), my HPF's on the guitar tracks have *NO* fundamental whatsoever, and not much first order harmonic content either. The bass on the other hand:


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## MatthewK (Feb 2, 2011)

I think a big factor is that the only players they're likely to associate with them are crappy nu-metal bands and kids that crappily imitate them. Also, those people tend not to actually use more than four strings.

BTW, that guys videos are hilarious. It's amazing to me that anyone could be so humorless as to be offended by them.


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## Siphaeon (Feb 2, 2011)

Variant said:


> Fact is, most bedroom blueswankers know *F-U-C-K-A-L-L* about mixing, and even less about mixing detuned metal.



I definitely need another 7 to tune it *F-U-C-K-A-L-L*! 

Like, everything played with it would irresistably ignore every negative opinion or bad attitude towards the song, player, tuning, amp, skills, string gauge, etc. plus get some extra coolness points that are awarded for just not giving a shit 

Further on the idea: It propably has F0, C1 and A2 as well as U is sort of rolled over C so it has to be an out of tune C3 and K is like H (B&#9838 that got hit with a bat and d(j)ented so it's definitely standard B1 with piezo. Now L is the death note ie. devils note ie. in diabolus musica ie... tritonus. So them L's are C and F# doublestrings with an octave difference! 


PS. I'm not high on crack. I just woke up and had a cup of tea instead of usual coffee


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 2, 2011)

That video makes me want to send him a 10 string for him to review so I can post it on my website.


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## BlackStar7 (Feb 4, 2011)

Variant said:


> Frankly, the solidbody electric guitar, especially in the context of an overdriven amp & speakers (real or simulated) is, in practice, an instrument of harmonic overtones, as well as one of filtered content (imparted by the amp & speakers, and generally in mixing), and that _*INCLUDES*_ six string guitars tuned to E2. .


This is a bit above my head but I am intrigued by it. Care to expound?



Variant said:


>



Rec'd for this alone.


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## Dark Aegis (Feb 4, 2011)

BlackStar7 said:


> Looking through these responses reminded me of Tom Morello once saying in a GW interview that he hated 7 strings because "most of that stuff is played in ranges that only dogs can hear."



Tom's hearing must be going because if he things erg stuff is too low to be heard then what would be the point in having a bass player?


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## ArkaneDemon (Feb 4, 2011)

Dark Aegis said:


> then what would be the point in having a bass player?



There isn't one.


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## AVH (Feb 5, 2011)

ERG players practically get preferential treatment at my shop!  

This guy is from my hometown back in Toronto, and I've had some of his customers bring their ERG's to me after he would not set them up properly, and on a couple of occasions even ridiculed the guitar to their faces when they picked it up. This is where I have problems with fellow Techs with narrow-minded attitudes like this , no matter what you think of the instrument or the person, never ridicule - it's very unprofessional, and guaranteed to bite you in the ass later along with lost business. And word of mouth is strong in the music business, as we all know.

@ Variant - I love your Frankensteinberger experiment! That's all kinds of fun..


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## Explorer (Feb 5, 2011)

Since I've had some interesting experiences which are different from a few which are posted, maybe these are worth sharing...

Whenever I go into my local GC to test out how something works with one of my eight-strings, I check in at the front desk so they can log what I'm carrying in. I've *never* had an employee make a negative comment, either there or in the rest of the store, only comments about how cool the instrument is. 

Could it be my age? Or the fact that I obviously know how to play it? I don't know, but I do know that if some fucktard was to make a crack about my choice in instruments when I was there to potentially spend money, I'd ask for the store's manager/owner (not the department manager), and would make clear why I don't want that employee to possibly serve me in the future. If the owner decides that it's a good idea to have someone insult customers, that's on them, but I don't need it in my life. 

When I went into a local acoustics store with one of my fifth-tuned acoustics to try to find something, I did have one guy make a crack about, "Why would anyone want to play an instrument in some dumb tuning like that?" He was standing in front of a wall of mandolins, mandolas, octave mandolins and bouzoukis, which were tuned exactly that way. I excused myself for a moment, and called one of the co-owners (a husband and wife I've known for years) and let her know what had just happened, and that it was possible that others had come into the store to meet the same hostile vibe. She was horrified, especially since I've known them for years, and said it would be terrible if *any* customer, new *or* established*, was to get the impression that the store wasn't open to helping them, no matter what they played. After we got off the phone, the shop phone rang, and the dude wound up picking up his stuff shortly afterwards and walking out. Coincidence? *laugh*

One option which helps a lot is sending something in writing. Yes, I'm one of those guys who will spend less than a dollar to drop a letter to the CEO and let them know what happened, along with all the particulars, and with the reminder that any interaction, whether positive or negative, has at least 100 customers behind those people listening in. I've never had a CEO who wasn't interested in fixing a problem. 

----

As for idiots who vent their opinion on the internet... when someone sees this guy mocking a particular instrument, and then can easily find a video showing what that instrument is capable of in the right hands... what do you think people will believe, this guy, or their lying ears and eyes? *laugh*


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## 5656130 (Feb 5, 2011)

BlackStar7 said:


> I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere (couldn't find it on here), but I had to share this:
> 
> I know this guy claims to be joking (and if the responses are any indication, most people don't seem too amused), but his attitude seems to be reflective of real animosity I've seen towards ERGs mainly outside of SS.org. I'm baffled by how people are so closed off to the possibilities these instruments present, much less how many of them seem almost personally affronted by their very existence. Has anyone else noticed a certain amount of contempt?
> 
> It seems like people always want to excuse anything new as a "fad." I know the 7 string was viewed that way for a long time, and probably still is by some, but it's clearly here to stay. Has anyone here had firsthand experience with bias against their ERGs?


 

The guy i take mine to is cool he dosent care as long as you can play but i live in mississippi where every kid plays metal and everyone over the ag eof 30 plays bluegrass so you get mixed mostly from the metal kids its thats to many strings same for the old farts hell even the fucking metal kids say a fucking 6 string bass is useless hell even a fucking bass playing friend of mine told me a 6 string bass was useless i just told him to go fuck himself


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## SirMyghin (Feb 5, 2011)

5656130 said:


> The guy i take mine to is cool he dosent care as long as you can play but i live in mississippi where every kid plays metal and everyone over the ag eof 30 plays bluegrass so you get mixed mostly from the metal kids its thats to many strings same for the old farts hell even the fucking metal kids say a fucking 6 string bass is useless hell even a fucking bass playing friend of mine told me a 6 string bass was useless i just told him to go fuck himself



you friend obviously isn't interested in exploring bass as an instrument in its own right, just holding down rhythm because he isn't good enough to play guitar . Wouldn't mind a 6 myself, and I can do a hell of a lot on my 5 though.


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## johnythehero (Feb 5, 2011)

this thread is unkillable


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## 5656130 (Feb 5, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> you friend obviously isn't interested in exploring bass as an instrument in its own right, just holding down rhythm because he isn't good enough to play guitar . Wouldn't mind a 6 myself, and I can do a hell of a lot on my 5 though.


 
lol the thing is though im in band with him and he mocks everytime i begin to talk about bass for owning a 6 string 

and TBF he dosent hold down rythym very well i got kinda pissed last night when we changed our style of what we were originally going to play to fit his bass playing since he appraently wants to play off key funk octaves in a metal song not that hes a bad bass player hes great hes just a stubborn ass


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## Ketzer (Feb 5, 2011)

Do you think there's no place in metal for Funk and off-key stuff?


...Because you'd be wrong in that regard, my friend,


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## 5656130 (Feb 5, 2011)

Ketzer said:


> Do you think there's no place in metal for Funk and off-key stuff?
> 
> 
> ...Because you'd be wrong in that regard, my friend,


 
well i know its cool for maybe like a nice fill or a part of a song but not the whole damn time it just sounded horrible if you listened to his bass


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## Dead Undead (Feb 6, 2011)

Not cool, man.


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## BlackStar7 (Feb 7, 2011)

If anything, metal music is in particularly desperate need of some added funk.


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## vlover (Feb 8, 2011)

Sad how musicians can believe something musical shouldn't be done. Failed musicians I call them.


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## Variant (Feb 8, 2011)

BlackStar7 said:


> This is a bit above my head but I am intrigued by it. Care to expound?.



E2 (standard low E on a "normal" six string guitar) is tuned to a fundamental frequency of 82.41 Hz. My current EQ settings at the channel have a cutoff below 85-90 hz. This is for guitars tuned *waaaaaaaaay* low. No frequencies are amplified below that value, and, in fact, are steeply cut off to make room for the bass, kick, etc. in the mix. This is pretty typical of modern metal mixing. It's hard enough to get the bass and kick to slot in with each other, the fundamental garbage from drop tuned guitars just doesn't need to be there. 

A good example is to listen to Meshuggah's guitarists in isolation, like in the Obzen demo vids, for instance (where they themselves call out listeners who say there's no bass guitar in the mix ), with their POD's direct in with essentially the same sound they use anywhere else. It's strangely anemic. In modern metal mixing, this is how you make a solid slab of guitar/bass sound, by letting the bass do it's job. Another good example is to listen to Mnemic's 'Diesel Uterus', at 0:52, where Obeast mutes his bass at the pre-chorus, you can hear *how* much of the bottom end of that sound it represents.






> If anything, metal music is in particularly desperate need of some added funk.



I agree 1000% with this statement. There doesn't even need to be any deviation from the downtuning stupidity... just benchmark this guy:


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## Tranquilliser (Feb 8, 2011)

I posted a status about wanting a 7 string on facebook once, people gave me endless shit about how they're stupid. I was like, wait,what?


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## CONTEMPT (Feb 9, 2011)

Tranquilliser said:


> I posted a status about wanting a 7 string on facebook once, people gave me endless shit about how they're stupid. I was like, wait,what?



I actually got kicked out of a band for bringing my eight string to practice a few too many times.


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## ArkaneDemon (Feb 9, 2011)

CONTEMPT said:


> I actually got kicked out of a band for bringing my eight string to practice a few too many times.



Dude what


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## troyguitar (Feb 9, 2011)

CONTEMPT said:


> I actually got kicked out of a band for bringing my eight string to practice a few too many times.



When I brought my 9-string to practice one time, my singer said 'You HAVE to use that thing live, it's ridiculous!' - especially we play all of our stuff on standard 6-strings


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## Release_Rinzler (Feb 10, 2011)

When I had my 7 and 8 string guitars brought into my store I got the mocking comments like "Why do you need that? ugh!" or "Why do you want a 7 string, Korn and Limp Bizkit aren't even relevant" or "You're a bass player why do you have this?" and my personal favorite " 8 string? I just threw up in my mouth a little bit"

Yes, I'm a bassist, I also play guitar, and in this particular band I'm in, I play guitar and there's no bassist. That's usually around the time I get the "Why don't you just play bass?" Because they're equipment save for the drummer's V drums can't handle it, so I use my 7 and 8 string guitars to fill the bottom end void


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## Captain Shoggoth (Feb 10, 2011)

My local guitar store actually carries a ton of Schecter 7s and 8s (and Ibanez too apparently, but when I went they only had sixes in stock), so it's all good there, and all of my guitar-playing friends are cool with ERGs (apart from, somewhat ironically, the only metal guitarist friend I have )


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## Release_Rinzler (Feb 11, 2011)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> My local guitar store actually carries a ton of Schecter 7s and 8s (and Ibanez too apparently, but when I went they only had sixes in stock), so it's all good there, and all of my guitar-playing friends are cool with ERGs (apart from, somewhat ironically, the only metal guitarist friend I have )



My store currently has 4 used Ibanez 7's right now. A pair of 7321s ( one in total dire straits), an RGA7,and one of those AX7's that Ibanez was saying Wes Borland played. We were re-arranging the wall and one of my co-workers, who actually plays heavy stuff and at times both my 7 and 8 string says "Oh my god, there's so many 7 strings here" to which I replied "But there's so many 6 strings here"


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## Ishan (Feb 11, 2011)

I only see a few 7s in stores over here, and 8s are very rare. I get some wow comment from time to time when I bring my 8 to try a few things but that's about it (and my playing sucks a bit, they don't mind  ).
The only time I had a bad experience is when I got to try one of the first RG2228 getting into the country, it was horribly setup and the guy from the store was just an ass about it.


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## ScornEmperor (Mar 13, 2011)

I've only seen a 7 in the GC in Kirkland, WA once (a used Musicman that my friend bought). There were none that I could see last couple times I have been in (most recently last week). I imagine they don't stock them as a regular thing, but that could change with time. I imagine they carry more in across the lake in Seattle.


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## Dark_Matter (Mar 13, 2011)

I watch this dudes videos all the time, he's fucking hilarious. You should just let shit roll off your back who cares about opinions other than your own anyways


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## saovi (Mar 14, 2011)

I believe that those doing covers of material other than your own is where the limitations arise unless that material is specifically written and arranged for ERG. 8 strings are new and meant to be written for specifically because the arrangement and writing needs to support it from the bottom up. I'm a strong believer of arrangement - its not enough to be a great guitarist (it helps) but the arrangement itself needs to support it. Said in another way, I believe the skepticism and even animosity toward ERG is a cover for not knowing how to arrange for 8 string and essentially being asked to exit familiar arrangement territory to accommodate it. 

The apparent terror is based on ignorance and fearing what they don't understand. Its incredibly small of people to put down ideas that are outside the box they're in. Its a given though that historically forward thinkers have always been put down from the beginning of time until somehow it eventually clicks and they then end up saying, "why didn't I think of that?"


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## CrushingAnvil (Mar 14, 2011)

Ketzer said:


> Do you think there's no place in metal for Funk and off-key stuff?
> 
> 
> ...Because you'd be wrong in that regard, my friend,



You can't be wrong in this situation.

People are going to have opinions whether you like it or not.

I believe in the fundamentals of how Heavy Metal was created. Metal music has changed, yes, but if something changes enough...it will cease to be what it 'started' out as. I put 'started' in apostrophies since it is a genre that has been developing, technically, for thousands of years...so technically it almost never started...but we all know 'started' just means '1967'.

Most of you guys might know I'm somewhat of a puritain, I don't play 8 strings but I don't believe they have no place in Heavy Metal music in general. I believe their application has been almost exclusively experimental. 

I just hit a wall so I'll remember what my point was later


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## Variant (Mar 14, 2011)

> I believe in the fundamentals of how Heavy Metal was created. Metal music has changed, yes, but if something changes enough...it will cease to be what it 'started' out as. I put 'started' in apostrophies since it is a genre that has been developing, technically, for thousands of years...so technically it almost never started...but we all know 'started' just means '1967'.
> 
> Most of you guys might know I'm somewhat of a puritain, I don't play 8 strings but I don't believe they have no place in Heavy Metal music in general. I believe their application has been almost exclusively experimental.



Interesting. So what are your feelings about a six string baritone tuned down to F#1... or furthermore, a MIDI-equipped six string triggering multisamples of a bass string stretched over a 46.75" fixture tuned down to A00?  

I ask because the idea of extended range (particularly as additional strings go), and tuning down are largely decoupled in the critic's brain... so far as I've observed. In fact, I think the average seven-string hater probably wouldn't even notice long enough to criticize a band sporting a 30-fret, six-string tuned down to B... which has both detuned _*and*_ extended it's range the same gap. Frankly, on the listener's end, all you get is what you can hear and you really don't know if something was recorded on a six string, or a seven string, or an eight string.  Shit, I regularly record with three strings on a guitar to get rid of noise.  So if you hate eight strings, it _*really*_ should be about the sound of F#1 through Bb1 and nothing else, because its utterly nonsensical to like or dislike a band because of how many strings best suit their creative process. It's like saying there's no place for six toms on a drum kit in metal, just four. 

I just find it interesting because I assume 1967 means 'Black Sabbath' which is an interesting choice in "puritanical" bands as they themselves, and their members have hardly been static in their sound over the years... not to mention put the flag on the proverbial pole for the genre by both tuning down (predicated by an injury sustained by Toni Iommi) and... well... being experimental to what was the norm. In fact, Geezer Butler was more instrumental in the crafting of early Black Sabbath material than the others involved, and his own band gzr is an industrial metal band. 

Meshuggah are pretty much unarguably an experimental band, however, they are also unarguably very influential, and they've put eight strings and circa-F#1 tunings in a good number of bands' hands, which are really not experimental at all. I'll agree that isn't certainly not the norm in heavy metal as a whole to choose that sound, but it has had laid some stake... I'll even say it's probably about the same bitty slice of the pie that growler bands (death/grind) occupied in the early nineties... and I'll tell you (I was there) that was lambasted as an "experimental extreme" too. I liked it and thought so even myself, however today, a _*HUGE*_ proportion of metal acts do the cookie monster thing. 

I'm _*not*_ saying the super low-tuned Meshuggah sound will become the standard for metal, of course. I'm just saying: Time will tell.  People need to be concerned with their own bands and crafting their own sounds. Heavy metal (and, moreover, being a musician in general) isn't about speculating where music will go en masse. I'm sure that's the result of some other college degree that spends way more time writing papers and making graphs than playing music itself... so the next time some Eagles fan asks what the fuck you need an eight string for, just say _*"Same reason the Eagles used 12-strings. It sounds fucking different than a six string, retard. Now stop crying over the trite and enjoy the music." *_


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## saovi (Mar 14, 2011)

Variant said:


> So if you hate eight strings, it _*really*_ should be about the sound of F#1 through Bb1 and nothing else, because its utterly nonsensical to like or dislike a band because of how many strings best suit their creative process.



I so agree and thanks for pointing that out. Its all in the notes really. My six string baritone passes inspection (drop tuned to F#1) and goes by unnoticed while my 8 string gets flak. Go figure.


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## Kali Yuga (Mar 14, 2011)

Every band I've shown up to with a 7-string guitar, they thought it was rad, even if the style of music didn't warrant it at all. I haven't used the 8-string in a band setting yet, but most of my friends seem excited to see what I'll do with it. If you can really play your instrument, people will respect you no matter what it is.

I've never had a negative experience with the local shop either. I go to a shop that caters mostly to bluegrass since it's big in this area, being home to one of only two colleges in the country with bluegrass degree programs. Although they are older guys who are mostly into bluegrass and older rock, some jazz, etc, they have always treated me with respect and taken care of my 7-strings. I came in asking about quotes ordering an 8-string awhile back and they were impressed that such an instrument even existed and wanted to find out more about them. I'll be taking my 8 down there for some maintenance and probably a pickup swap since I don't know how to change actives.


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## guitarzombie (Apr 28, 2011)

Well I'm dissed constantly for playing 7 and wanting to play 8.
-
But let me tell you something. I'm buying everything at my friend's guitar shop, and when the first ever 8 string came he tried and loved it. For the record, Lev plays ONLY Les Pauls and has a Cult cover band. He told me, that for him its pretty weird, but he thinks if the industry carries on to make and use these things, we're on a good way


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## Rev2010 (Apr 28, 2011)

I had one "potential" guitarist that responded to my musician classified ad. He responded that he now is only playing a 6-string but he had put his 7-string on consignment and could pull it out if needed. At that point I was thinking of ordering an 8-string and asked if he'd be ok playing 8-string as well.

Well, he responded to the email along the lines of "I'm ok with doing 7-strings, but honestly I don't know where you're going with all this exotic guitar stuff".

On one hand I can totally understand because it does require right off the bat buying more gear. While this could be a $400 guitar or $1000+ doesn't matter really. Just saying that anytime someone has a prerequisite to spend a few hundred to join a band can understandably be met with some resistance. But for those just observing or hanging with another guitarist that uses ERG's well WTF is the problem!??


Rev.


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## TheMasterplan (Apr 29, 2011)

Most of the guitarists I know and friends who listen to my band's music support me rocking the 8 string now and I don't think I'd ever go back. What I do get is heaps of shit from bassist's I know, especially older ones. One of my ex's brothers and I had this little discussion on a demo video I did on facebook of my Schecter C8 Blackjack ATX:

In the description I wrote: "In before Todd tells me to get a 6 string bass." This is what followed:

Todd:
Dude. Seriously. Just play a 5-string bass for about a month. You'll love it. And your dainty guitar fingers will love it too, cuz when you finally get around to picking up the guitar again after not being able to put down the bass for 3 months, you'll find that the bass whipped them into shape. Then you'll shred on that purty 8-stringer of yours way better than before, but will secretly be thinking to yourself, "I miss that low B rumble on the bass..." 

Ken:
&#8206;I probably would, but A) I don't have access to one and B) The reason I play the extended range guitars is because I love having the bass range with the tonal characteristics of a guitar. I know what you say to be true because now when I pick up a six string guitar it feels like a toy and I can shred hard on it, but I'm not far off with the gauges I use these days. I'm still adjusting to the new tensions and scale. If you want to surrender your 5 string, by all means hand it over. Besides all that I don't think I could just stop playing guitar and only play any other instrument for that long.

*Todd: I'm just saying man, at the rate you're going you might as well not bother with replacing your bassist. *

It's not a one off. He's been saying shit like that since I started playing 7's a few years ago and it just gets really annoying. Cause at first he's actually giving some legitimate advice, but it always ends with "Hur dur just get a bass".


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 29, 2011)

Affirmative Action!!!!!!!!!!!


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## guitarzombie (Apr 29, 2011)

Look at M.A.N for example. They ultra low, and the bass is one octave under that. Oh and not to mention 48 frets?


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Apr 29, 2011)

I agree that there will ALWAYS be haters of anything not up to traditional "standards" and i am not a huge fan of djent-y music, but i respect the fact that its something fresh and new. (even though the mighty meshuggah has been at it for years) If someone says that 7 or 8 strings are excessive, tell them to go look up Charlie Hunter or Scale The Summit.


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 29, 2011)




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## steve1 (Apr 29, 2011)




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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Apr 29, 2011)

One thing might redeem this thread:

Who has used one these F# strings live?

did the venues PA produce distinguishable notes?

That is my question about the relevance of sub sonic guitars, I think that would be the best validation of the instruments.

Also, older musicians thought folk and pop were cutting edge because people got together to sing songs for fun. Don't see that happening much these days, except with older people, who seem to really enjoy it still. Can't see that happening when todays kids are in the retirement home: Let's sing some gangsta rap together..... oooopss, NURSE!!!!


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## Kali Yuga (Apr 29, 2011)

Actually, people still do that, and especially MCs.


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## Rev2010 (Apr 29, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> O]Who has used one these F# strings live?
> 
> did the venues PA produce distinguishable notes?



Dude think about it:

House PA systems are often reproducing:

Bass
Kick Drums
Heavy synths
House/Techno/Trance - very bass heavy
etc.

Then there's also the bands out there. Deftones plays live fine, so does Meshuggha no? I can't see how this would be a problem in any way shape or form for a semi-decent system. The house sound tech, well that's a different story since he may suck nuts like many of them do.


Rev.


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## SirMyghin (Apr 29, 2011)

Rev2010 said:


> I had one "potential" guitarist that responded to my musician classified ad. He responded that he now is only playing a 6-string but he had put his 7-string on consignment and could pull it out if needed. At that point I was thinking of ordering an 8-string and asked if he'd be ok playing 8-string as well.
> 
> Well, he responded to the email along the lines of "I'm ok with doing 7-strings, but honestly I don't know where you're going with all this exotic guitar stuff".
> 
> ...



Why does he need an 8 just because you want to use one is a very good question too, however.   (that will have to do, no stir the pot here )



TheMasterplan said:


> It's not a one off. He's been saying shit like that since I started playing 7's a few years ago and it just gets really annoying. Cause at first he's actually giving some legitimate advice, but it always ends with "Hur dur just get a bass".



I am of two minds of this, sometimes I think like your bassist, then I quickly remember the frequency content isn't that close typically (albeit on the very low string it might approach slightly, but it is still a shorter scale, and most likely a lighter string, it just won't get the same UMPH).  On the other hand I am a bassist who frequently likes to play up the neck, I use the low B more for that than anything, so a guitarist that uses ERGs, gives me a lot more options on position I can use and which part of the range I decide to fortify.  That part of me really likes ERGs, I could definitely use to get a 6 string bass though, it is on the list.


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## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

Regarding bassists giving guitarists shit... just keep in mind where it's coming from. I have a feeling a lot of bass players feel insecure about it because they don't want to get replaced. And while I know this isn't true for every bass player out there, I've met _a lot_ of bassists who are just too lazy to practice or achieve the same level as a guitarist would in a typical metal band. Especially so for the "blues / rock" bassists out there because they can get away with playing  whole notes and still be in a band. 

I'm sure it's been said but really who gives a shit what someone says? To me it just shows their ignorance or closedminded-ness. I'm still on the fence about 8s because I'm not sure it'd be any better/easier than 7s to accomplish what i want to accomplish... but I wouldn't judge someone else who is trying to accomplish something different and uses an 8 to realize that.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 29, 2011)

I started off as a bass player, then moved to guitar because I didn't feel able to express myself with the bass range. However I started missing that low end, so I've been using lower tuned 7s (and soon 8s) since.


So to summarise, fuck da haters.


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## Ishan (Apr 29, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> One thing might redeem this thread:
> 
> Who has used one these F# strings live?
> 
> ...



A good friend of mine has a band where they all tune drop F and let me tell you it's a total blast live  even the bass works fine with whatever PA the venues have.


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## Kali Yuga (Apr 29, 2011)

I guess I never have this problem because I don't hang around and play music with children.


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## Rev2010 (Apr 29, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Why does he need an 8 just because you want to use one is a very good question too, however.  (that will have to do, no stir the pot here )



Well that's simple, to play parts that use the full range together. I'll often write riffs where I use the lowest and highest strings. So he would likely need the range.


Rev.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 29, 2011)

Rev2010 said:


> Well that's simple, to play parts that use the full range together. I'll often write riffs where I use the lowest and highest strings. So he would likely need the range.
> 
> 
> Rev.


 
Completely understandable, but I think what he was getting at is there are some bands where the guitarists will play guitars with different numbers of strings. In other words one might have a 7 and the other an 8 or any other combination. 

The way you write may very well necessitate that the axes match but sometimes that isn't the case. I think I could get away with playing my 8 with a 6 or 7 string guitar player simply because I tend to use the 8th string a little more sparingly. 

Only band that comes to mind at the moment where the guitarists use different axes is Scale the Summit. I think Periphery might, but I've seen so many pics of them playing live that I may just be splicing the pics in my mind. 





The only thing that kind of bothers me about playing an ERG (and this isn't even really a bad thing) is that ppl assume you're super crazy guitar master when they find out you have more than the standard number of strings... It's like you're the fuckin' highlander or something. It's always... "Oh man! This guy is so sick! He sweeps more than a maid and he plays an EIGHT STRING!" So much pressure... I'm a stoner man... Keep the pressure to a minimum.


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## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> ...when they find out you have more than the standard number of strings... It's like you're the fuckin' highlander or something.


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## Infamous Impact (Apr 29, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> when they find out you have more than the standard number of strings... It's like you're the fuckin' highlander or something..


Sig'd.


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## Rev2010 (Apr 29, 2011)

I actually did LOL when I read that! And man it's oh so true.


Rev.


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## The Hiryuu (Apr 30, 2011)

Frets have the same effect, a lot of people assume it's significantly more difficult to play my guitar because of how "long" the neck is, even though it's a 25'5" scale still.


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