# Going ampless live...



## Nautilus (May 31, 2011)

Hey guys, I've been really curious to see how this would work and I've been thinking about taking the plunge...

I'm currently using a small Line 6 Spider IV combo (75 watt), which I mic up at venues right now. I've been working with amp modellers heavily in the past few months and have found it to be fantastic. So much so that I'm actually considering taking an amp modeller live.

As it stands I'm using Pod Farm 2 through a Line 6 UX2 and, all things considered am really interested in seeing how this would fair live. Basically my question is- do you think this is really doable? There's certainly room to take the UX2 out to a PA system, but has anyone really tried it? I can't put the cash together for something like an axe-fx as of yet...but would like to in the future.

So, thoughts?


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## WhiteWalls (May 31, 2011)

I played 3 concerts with just my laptop, a m-audio fast track (even cheaper and more basic than your ux2) and free amp/cab simulations to great results. It needs some tweaking to make it sound full in a live context, but as long as you test it before you should be ok.

I don't know if the ux2 has balanced outputs, but if it doesn't then you also need a di box, because running a long unbalanced cable from the interface to the pa adds a lot of unwanted noise


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## brutalwizard (May 31, 2011)

i read an article in guitar world some time back that said that static-x does it live.

i can imagine it working


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## Nautilus (May 31, 2011)

WhiteWalls said:


> I played 3 concerts with just my laptop, a m-audio fast track (even cheaper and more basic than your ux2) and free amp/cab simulations to great results. It needs some tweaking to make it sound full in a live context, but as long as you test it before you should be ok.
> 
> I don't know if the ux2 has balanced outputs, but if it doesn't then you also need a di box, because running a long unbalanced cable from the interface to the pa adds a lot of unwanted noise



The UX2 doesn't have XLR out, but it does provide a balanced 1/4" out for TRS connectors. 

I'll certainly have to test it out in our band's studio/live PA room....thanks for the advise!


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## Nautilus (May 31, 2011)

brutalwizard said:


> i read an article in guitar world some time back that said that static-x does it live.
> 
> i can imagine it working



I definitely can use the setup in realtime, the latency through the UX2 is small enough to get it done. My major concern was that taking a guitar through the PA won't gel as well with the other gear setup straight out of a cab. In certain circumstances everything may well be mic'd, in which case I suppose it's neither here nor there.

I'll have a look at the static-x for sure though! Until I've got money together for an axe2...I'm in the market


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## avenger (May 31, 2011)

Nautilus said:


> I definitely can use the setup in realtime, the latency through the UX2 is small enough to get it done. My major concern was that taking a guitar through the PA won't gel as well with the other gear setup straight out of a cab. In certain circumstances everything may well be mic'd, in which case I suppose it's neither here nor there.
> 
> I'll have a look at the static-x for sure though! Until I've got money together for an axe2...I'm in the market


 I think he ment the band static-x


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## Nautilus (May 31, 2011)

avenger said:


> I think he ment the band static-x


haha! I wouldn't know 

Will check em out though......


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## ShadowFactoryX (May 31, 2011)

my one guitarist used a zoom g9 into our pa for practice for about a year, worked quite well, space saving too!


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## Marv Attaxx (May 31, 2011)

Stephen Carpenter does his live gigs with Guitar Rig on an old Macbook


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## Nautilus (May 31, 2011)

didnt realize so many guys were using it in the *mainstream*! Always reassuring.


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## Thaeon (Jun 4, 2011)

Marv Attaxx said:


> Stephen Carpenter does his live gigs with Guitar Rig on an old Macbook



Steph is awaiting delivery of an Axe FX II. I saw them a couple nights ago. He's switched back to the JMP-1, but now he's running it direct with a Rocktron Prophecy. The first leg of this current tour he was using guitar rig for the songs off of the new album. The old stuff was still his old setup.


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## Marv Attaxx (Jun 5, 2011)

^ should have added "at the moment" 
I know that he didn't use guitar rig for the older stuff but I saw him showing off his rig on a recent tour and it consisted only of his (old!) macbook + guitar rig


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jun 5, 2011)

I played some shows with laptop + UX2 and my custom patches (engl from the the metal pack, Treadplate cab, tubescreamer, reverb and delay) with backing tracks in media player for the psychedelic screen saver. It worked great a few times........

But one time, I plugged the UX2 AFTER booting the laptop, which caused the onboard sound to take priority and the UX2 to work in strange ways. Always boot with the UX2 plugged in first and try to disable the onboard sound in control panel>System>Devices if possible (like, if you have time for techy stuff before you go on). Go to Line6 MIDI devices or Gearbox HELP>OPTIONS AND SETTINGS or whatever it's called under the menu and get the real screen up that gives you power options. Set latency to whatever doesn't glitch out but as low as possible and set bit rate to 24 bit 48khz (highest quality).

Once you have it set up, it's easy. Venue must have good monitors and PA for best results. You can use the headphone output or one of the other outputs (probably better) with whatever amp is left on stage for monitoring. Most venues have a few DI boxes around.

Depending on how much the sound guy likes you/has free time he may even tweak you a touch for some nice room reverb for stereo or pseudo stereo fx.

It worked really well for me to do some shows of covers and original music whie I was writing and the other guys were still at rehearsal stages, I could still go out and play the tunes over the demo backing tracks I'd made and throw in some Dream Theater and Satriani covers with backing tracks I have. Lotsa' fun!

Nowadays I use this: Guitar > Radial Pro DI > Mic Preamp on UX2. The mic pre's are MUCH better than the line ins, I can hear the difference. The DI is for reamping mainly, but for general use, it does improve the Line 6 tones as their inputs aren't the best, but the preamps are ok. I hope to get some better preamps soon, but continue to use the Line 6 tones for demos and monitoring before reamping.


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## Lukifer (Jun 5, 2011)

I don't know if they still do but I know Meshuggah used to run Line 6 PODs direct to the board. Sounded cool to me!! They got the foot switches so they can change tones on stage.


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## Albionic (Jun 6, 2011)

i like the idea of going straight into a pa i dunno what venues are like in leeds but here down south the house pa gear can be questionable. but if you have your own reliable decent sounding pa then i don't see a problem. bear in mind that you will need monitors to hear yourself or position the pa speakers behind you at the back of the stage.


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## TemjinStrife (Jun 10, 2011)

Depends on what venues you're playing. Shitty PA and/or monitors will kill you.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Jun 13, 2011)

Lukifer said:


> I don't know if they still do but I know Meshuggah used to run Line 6 PODs direct to the board. Sounded cool to me!! They got the foot switches so they can change tones on stage.



Close. Fredrick runs his Line 6 POD in the effects loop of a Line 6 Vetta II, I believe, and then runs all that to the PA of wherever they are.



TemjinStrife said:


> Depends on what venues you're playing. Shitty PA and/or monitors will kill you.



And he has said he's run into problems like this, where the entire PA system shit out. But he still always just goes this route. Which does make it easier, I guess. No loading in or out of cabs. At least, not for him. Not sure what Marten and Dick do, though. I believe they still use amps.


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## Machina (Jun 16, 2011)

Does everyone in this thread use some sort of cab as well? For the past couple of shows my band has gone pretty much completely d.i. I play an ampeg svt 3 pro, which they would just d.i. anyways. And my guitarist uses an axe fx. We were both sick of lugging our giant cabs around to shows so decided to throw everything in one rack case and just bring that.

But I guess the point of this is, is/should anyone worried about "stage sound" (that being the actual sound you would get directly from the stage from the cabs and such), or rather lack there of if you are not using a cab like my guitarist and I?


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## Winspear (Jun 16, 2011)

Machina said:


> Does everyone in this thread use some sort of cab as well? For the past couple of shows my band has gone pretty much completely d.i. I play an ampeg svt 3 pro, which they would just d.i. anyways. And my guitarist uses an axe fx. We were both sick of lugging our giant cabs around to shows so decided to throw everything in one rack case and just bring that.
> 
> But I guess the point of this is, is/should anyone worried about "stage sound" (that being the actual sound you would get directly from the stage from the cabs and such), or rather lack there of if you are not using a cab like my guitarist and I?



As long as you have an idea of the venue you are playing (I.e. it has a decent PA and on stage monitors for you) I wouldn't worry. For a very small gig, yes I think 'stage sound' would be kinda important to sound 'normal'.


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## Albionic (Jun 16, 2011)

i've been thinking about this a bit and at home i use the lepou le456 plugin with lecab for impulses and a ts pluggin in front.i use an maudio fasttrack interface. the big problem i found was switching (i posted about thin on the recording forums)how to switch between 2 or more different pluggin chains with a midi pedal? 

then i found this

niallmoody.com - Pedalboard2

it allows you to set up vst chains and save them as patches as you woud on a multi effects unit. you can then use a midi pedal to recall the patches. i have a midi usb interface i bought form ebay for £5 i've not tried it with my pedal board yet though.

best thing about this is all the software is free and sounds great if you have a usb audio interface you owe it to yourself to try the lepou pluggins and the gods cab impulses

not sure if i'm ready to do this live yet but it'll be nice to jam with people without taking a huge amp


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## Fiction (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm saving up for a HD500 at the moment as I can't quiet stretch for the axe-fx, and honestly I don't see the need. I'll be playing straight through my drummers PA for now which isn't too bad, I'll have to invest in some fallbacks.

But its just until I can actually afford to get myself a Cab+Poweramp, but I will still be playing the modeler just through those, most likely mic'd if absolutely needed anyways.


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## Nathaniel (Jun 17, 2011)

Going direct (and ampless) live can be a bit of a crapshoot. It really depends on the monitor guy: If you have a responsive monitor engineer and a decent sound check you can be pretty sure to have a great time going direct. If not, you're pretty much hosed.

Here's what I do: I split the signal coming out of my POD and send one line to the house and another to my amp. Most of my stage sound comes from my amp - and because it's not mic'd I can adjust to taste if the levels get wonky. This is especially important when playing anything fretless like my violin or viola.

Another consideration is sound sources. If you've got two guitars (or any two instruments that live in the same frequencies) it can be hard to separate them if they're both coming out of the same speaker. When I'm playing viola and there are synth strings going on, I much prefer to have my viola sound coming from my amp behind me and the synths from the monitor in front of me. That way I know I'm not going to get lost.


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## Ckackley (Jun 17, 2011)

I go direct 100% of the time. I've got a Mackie powered PA speaker that I bring in case the monitors suck..


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jul 4, 2011)

ndc plugs - news

free vst: Niall Moody - Pedalboard 2 : nitty-gritty-music+design+ois was gaudi macht


@Albionic - Thanks for the recommendation. Here are updated links for those interested in PedalBoard 2.


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## shanejohnson02 (Jul 7, 2011)

At the last small show I did, I tried something new: ran my pod X3 pro into my Egnater Tweaker's FX return, with the speaker simulation off on the pod. The Egnater ran into my Palmer PDI-03, and that ran to FOH. The result was pretty good....got the versatility of the Pod, plus the real tube warmth from cranking the power section of the Egnater into a speaker sim. 

I have ran the POD straight to FOH before, but it's just missing something. I have yet to try an Axe-FX (I know...I'm behind the times), but I hear good things about them. I've also tried just about every combination of tube pre / power amp combination possible with my Pod X3 (not brands, just the configurations). The best result is a toss-up between using my Engl as the preamp, the Pod for effects, and the Tweaker/PDI-03 combo for power, vs the Pod as both preamp and effects, and the Tweaker/PDI the same way as before.


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