# New project :: P.E.N.G - Piezo Electric Nylon Guitar - Warning: experiments ahead!



## helferlain (Jan 19, 2014)

Dear ss.org users, interested in guitar builds!

I've started a new project. Still far away from cutting any wood, the idea is evolving.

This are the specs I'm working with:

- piezo electric only
- nylon strings
- 27" scale
- 25 frets for at least 2 halfsteps downtuning, using a capo for standard tuning
- bolt on neck through
- reverse neck (semi-headless, because there is a headstock placed behind the bridge
- standard nylon tuners
- chambered body with many ergonomic bevels and shapings 

If the body shape works out I will build the same with a standard neck and pu's

Here's the sketching so far. Feel free to assist me with your mockups of that idea:







For the history of that idea go to my blog, linked in my signature...


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## CD1221 (Jan 19, 2014)

Colour me intrigued.


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## vansinn (Jan 19, 2014)

Quite interesting, will follow this, bring more pics!


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## DredFul (Jan 19, 2014)




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## BlackMastodon (Jan 19, 2014)

Very interested to see how this goes.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Jan 19, 2014)

This sounds really interesting.


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## XxJoshxX (Jan 19, 2014)

You beat me to it. I've been wanting to build a nylon with piezos.


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## tommychains (Jan 19, 2014)

+1 for originality, how exactly would the piezo bridge work with nylon strings? I'm not familiar with nylon strings, nor do I have any experience working with these types of guitars.

Edit: 500th post! Whoop whoop!


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## helferlain (Jan 20, 2014)

tommychains said:


> ... how exactly would the piezo bridge work with nylon strings? ...



like this:


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## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2014)

I like this project. And this may be saying more about me than the design, but that headstock hardware tucked into the body cavity looks like a scary mechanical vagina, and is freaking me the eff out.


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## Necris (Jan 20, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> ....that headstock hardware tucked into the body cavity looks like a scary mechanical vagina, and is freaking me the eff out.



He should call the design the MV. 


I think it looks awesome, I'll be watching this thread.


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## helferlain (Jan 20, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> I like this project. And this may be saying more about me than the design, but that headstock hardware tucked into the body cavity looks like a scary mechanical vagina, and is freaking me the eff out.



1. whatever you consume, stop it!
if this doesn't help
2. stop visiting dirty websites


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## Pikka Bird (Jan 20, 2014)

tommychains said:


> ...how exactly would the piezo bridge work with nylon strings?



Piezo pickups work on pressure, not magnetism.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Jan 20, 2014)

Looks like a really cool project. I know one thing for certain, I'm going to make one of those nylastrats.


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## capone1 (Jan 20, 2014)

Subscribed


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 22, 2014)

My only recommendation (I have a nylon 7 with a piezo bridge) is to be careful of the method you use to "tie" your strings to the guitar. sliiiightly sharp edges or bends will cause yur high strings to break much more often that you imagine.

Also, 27" might be a bit too much for the higher strings, depending on the brand of strings you use.

What piezo system will you use?


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## helferlain (Jan 22, 2014)

The 27" is intended for lower tunings. The string tension should match standard guitars. 

I bought a cheap piezo preamp from chinese ebay.


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## helferlain (Jan 26, 2014)

I've been working on the design of the body shape around the headstock. 
Straight lines would be easier to route, so the right version is my favourite at the moment.






The dark square on the right site is the location for the piezo preamp with integrated tuner:
Guitar 4-Band Preamp JOYO JE-305 EQ Tuner Pickup


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## BlackMastodon (Jan 26, 2014)

The right one definitely makes more sense, as it will also give you a bit more room to fit the tuners since the curves of the left one make the space a bit narrower. Though I'm wondering if you even need these areas:






Seems like it would just create more work for no real gain, unless you want it aesthetically.


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## Negav (Jan 26, 2014)

BlackMastodon said:


> The right one definitely makes more sense, as it will also give you a bit more room to fit the tuners since the curves of the left one make the space a bit narrower. *Though I'm wondering if you even need these areas:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What if instead of using clasical guitar tuners you use banjo tuners which you can install from behind instead of having to make those cuts?


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## helferlain (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes,the right one.
Sorry, no banjo tuners.

Came to think about the placing of the classical-style bridge. It should rest on the neck / headstock part of the guitar. A first idea, not the final solution:


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## Kroaton (Jan 29, 2014)

You should look into the Paradis Avalon guitars, as they used a similar system for the headless bit.


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## helferlain (Feb 5, 2014)

I'e seen the paradise guitars before and it's a nice design. But it's not my approach.

I finally got the CNC cut fretboard from my supplier. There must have been some misunderstandings in comunication:

I've ordered 27" scale / 25 frets and I got 27.7 scale / 24 frets. Its still in the baritoe range and I will use it, but I have to recalculate the complete neck. 

String spacing at the bridge is now around 11.5 - 11.8 mm. I think it will work for me with the nylon strings ... I'm glad it's only sketchwork at the moment. Won't imagine if I had started with wood already...

The usual sketch of the day:


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## Mr_Bene (Feb 7, 2014)

Consider me very excited about this project!!

Btw. did you think about doing a radius instead of a chamfer at the lower end where the armrest meets the tuning system cut-out?


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## helferlain (Mar 12, 2014)

Major update!

The design process is largely finished. Focused on a relaxed sitting playing position (mainly cclassical), it is shaped for the common 3 positions:

*1. standard*





*2. "strandberg"*





*3. classical*




As seen in the last picture , in the classical position, the shape of the lower horn defines the distance between left leg and fretboard. The combination of the lower horn and the bottom bevel defines the angle of the neck 

Three bevel areas are planned:
1. forearm bevel
2. belly bevel
3. right leg bevel (bottom bevel)





The wood I've bought for this build i thick enough for the preamp placed on the side of the upper horn.


Next step: from sketching to reality

*wood:*
body: Ovangkol (50mm)
top/back: Swamp Ash (4mm / each)
neck: Ovangkol & veneer (Ovangkol / Ash / Wenge / Ash / Wenge / Ash / Ovangkol)
fretboard: bubinga
finish: oil / shellac

*hardware:*
DER JUNG tuners
DER JUNG ENTERPRISE CO.,LTD




black TOM Bridge with single piezo for each string (ebay)

Woodwoking start: next week
...


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## helferlain (Mar 21, 2014)

Build start / first day:

- set up the workshop
- laminated the neck blank (ovangkol / ash / wenge / ash / wenge / ash / ovangkol)
- made a body template from poplar plywood


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## XxJoshxX (Mar 21, 2014)

Looking forward to it!


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## 72xmulch (Mar 27, 2014)

also interested in your tuning setup. im struggling with designing my multiscale bridge tuners and exploring completely different ideas, like this


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## helferlain (Apr 5, 2014)

*Two accidents:*

*First,* the Ovangkol body for the PENG project is ruined by processing with the wrong tools and without having experience in working with ovangkol at all.

The good news: I got a new alder body. It's much lighter and easier to work with. But I didn't start the work on the new body because... 

... the *second accident*: Started with a parallel project, the same body design but for standard magnetic pickups.

*body:* Alder with Wenge/Redwood top and back
*neck & fretbaord:* Wenge (pre-build by the famous Walterson!)
*bridge:* ABM 5200 chrome
*tuners: *Hipshot open backlocks
*PU-bridge:* Dimarzio X2N
*PU-neck:* Artec dual rail singlecoil humbucker
*scale:* 25.5"

sketch: 





The neck has an extended heel for mounting at the neck pocket of the body. The fretboard will stop at the edge of the body (treble side). Therefore the "neck" PU will be placed around the area of e standard middle PU.

Body sandwich with top and backside glued. Neck with rough cut headstock





EDIT: If someone comes up with a nice, unique and ambiguous name for the second project please post. Like P.E.N.G. = Peng! = Bang! (in german)


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## helferlain (Apr 11, 2014)

side project progress :: introducing the 4xb ( four blades guitar )

progress pic:





the idea of a wenge / redwood top:


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## vansinn (Apr 11, 2014)

Should end up very cool. Lovely book matching of the top.


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## helferlain (Apr 23, 2014)

The side project is now the main project.

The idea of the concept:






Actual status: applying shellac after stainig the body:






to be continued ...


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## Señor Voorhees (Apr 23, 2014)

Holy shit, that wood looks nice in the last picture.


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## bloodstaindewok (Apr 23, 2014)

P.E.N.G.....WIN! Sorry, I had to. This looks pretty' friggin awesome!


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## man jerk (Apr 23, 2014)

Beautiful work!


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## helferlain (Apr 29, 2014)

small update :: multiple layers of shellac


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## helferlain (Jun 16, 2014)

*UPDATE!*

The shellac was sanded back to reduce the stain. Then applyed from start. After a few layers I decided to assemply the guitar for testing, cutting the nut, looking for last tweaks before the final finishing process






I'm very happy with the wenge neck, ss frets, fret access/extendes neck pocket. 

The concept of the body shape works fine, but it need still a bit of adjustment... This brings me back to the original P.E.N.G. project. 

With a new alder body blank, I'v started with the body contour. Learning from the 4xb body above, this time I cut all the lines with design purpose, leaving only the functional contour.






It may look odd and strange, but the quick clamp mounted test promises a very relaxed guitar playing experience...


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## helferlain (Aug 8, 2014)

Progress!

Successfull testing of the P.E.N.G. ! Now ist time for the finish...


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 9, 2014)

How comfy is it for the picking hand with the tuners there? Are they in the way at all? Looking good so far! Looking forward to seeing it done.


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## helferlain (Aug 9, 2014)

BlackMastodon said:


> How comfy is it for the picking hand with the tuners there? Are they in the way at all? Looking good so far! Looking forward to seeing it done.



Thank you for encouraging! And a good question. No contact with the tuners, at least with my hands and playing style. Even palm muted playing does not touch the tuners. 

It may be different with bigger hands, this will be tested by others once the guitar is finished.

This guitar, especially the nylon strings, screams for finger picking. Using a plec is possible, but fingerstyle is much more fun. Maybe I should think about a video review with the finished guitar ...


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## helferlain (Aug 17, 2014)

ready for a NGD:

















Waiting for better weather = better pics


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## immortalx (Aug 17, 2014)

It's not only a very unique design, it's also perfectly executed


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