# Am I in the wrong on this ?



## jarledge (Sep 22, 2015)

I had a customer come with a fulltone OCD pedal that he said wasn't functioning correctly. Cool, I don't really work on pedals too much so I thought I would contact fulltone about how to proceed with getting the customer fixed up.

*Here is my initial email. *

_Hello.

My name is jordan and I am repair tech at Guitar Center. I am contacting you on behalf of a customer that has a defective OCD. It isn't bypassing the signal when off. It is cutting output and draining the battery even when not engaged. The pedal is in awesome shape and was purchased less than a year ago. It hasn't been abused and there is no physical damage.

What should i advise the customer to do and is there any way to fix the pedal or return it to you for repair.

Thank you,_


*Here is the response
*

_Hi,
Hmm, so it's Draining the battery when "off" ?

Glad to know it's working properly!

All pedals still drain the battery when OFF IF there's a guitar cable plugged into the INPUT....unless there's a power supply plug stuck in the DC power port...in which case the Battery is bypassed.

As far as the rest, you have shot your "troubleshooting credibility" by that "Battery" statement, so what you'll have to do BEFORE I'll entertain your repair is:

Unplug the effect away from all that other crap, no tuners, no power supplies, power with Fresh battery, 2 different cables.
Now...video it "being broken" and email that video to me.

Then I'll talk about a repair process 

Thanks!_

*I thought that was pretty condescending and unprofessional. My reply..*

_ Wow, 

Thanks for the email... I think. The pedal drains the battery even when not plugged in. 

It is ok, I will tell the customer he'd be better off buying an xotic or Keeley. 

Thank you again,_

*So I'll admit not incredibly professional myself, but with customer service that bad I feel like it is my duty to steer customers away from their products. His reply ...*

_And I can send one email and end your &#8220;career.&#8221;

You want that?_

*Wow, seems like someone went straight on a power trip... My reply* 

_I don't claim to a pedal expert. I am just trying to help a customer out. I am not the one being a smartass.

You do whatever you want to do. I wont be treated like that from anyone._

*His reply....* 

_And I am trying to teach you how to interact with the head of one of your big accounts&#8230;tough guy.

Totally improper protocol.

Assumptive.

Next time: &#8220;Hi, I&#8217;m having a problem with&#8230;&#8221;
Then I make you do the troubleshooting.

Listen, if you never listen to another thing:
A full 95% of attempted returns involve a bad cable, bad power supply, poorly made GeorgeL cable, bad cable, or user dummy-ness.
That&#8217;s actual numbers over a 22 year period of keeping them.
How STUPID would I have to be to take very guitarist or salesmen&#8217;s word for it that &#8220;uhhh it&#8217;s broken&#8221; without FIRST having them troubleshoot it.
&#8220;sure man, I want to be your friend&#8230;Just send it in, no questions asked!&#8221;

No._

*So I try to be sensible with my reply because I do understand what he is talking about even if he still sounds very condescending. My reply...*

_I don't care about accounts. I care about helping my customer. 

I am not an expert, that is why i emailed you. I know certain pieces of equipment have problems unique to them and you are right in saying that alot of times it isn't 
The pedal or guitar but a cable or power supply. 

You need to work on your customer interaction skills. You can't berate a customer for saying your product doesn't work. You should instead say :

Hello, 
I am sorry that you are having issues. Have you already tried eliminating the cables, power supply.... Is it possible that you don't have it plugged in or... 

That is much more constructive. I would like advice and information from a subject matter expert._

*The last email I got... *

_Scott, send him over to his bosses

Michael Fuller

President
Fulltone Musical Products Inc.
11018 Washington Blvd
Culver City, CA 90232_


So am I in the wrong on this?


----------



## Vrollin (Sep 22, 2015)

They bloke is being a massive keyboard warrior, no need for him to come across as aggressive as he did in his first reply. He seems to think he is invincible and above you simply because he runs a pedal company, yeah you ballin mate you run a pedal company get the .... out of here. What does he think that if your store was to lose his brand you would fold because you couldn't possibly find another pedal brand, out of the ever growing number of companies, to fill that spot on the shelf?? Reality is he needs you and your customers more than you need him...
In short he's a massive wanker and you did well to bite your tongue to the degree you did when it is so easy to let fly over email communication.


----------



## High Plains Drifter (Sep 22, 2015)

The correspondence was doomed from the start. 

Very condescending reply from him but when you decided to "push back", there was no way that it was going to end well. 

I don't support any level of "smart-ass" in business/ professional correspondence ( unless it is a mutual back-n-forth where both parties are getting along and just exchanging lolz). 

I understand where your intentions were and that you were trying to help a customer as well as act as the middle-man between the two parties, but I would have kept it professional or politely suggested he pound sand. 

It's rarely a "win" for anyone when two parties are on the defensive. 

So in the end, my opinion is that although your feelings may have been warranted, such a reply was not... not in this type of circumstance anyway.


----------



## jc986 (Sep 22, 2015)

His initial reply was a bit condescending and unprofessional, no question about it. 

However, I have found that it is always best to take the high road and be courteous and respectful, even when dealing with less than savory individuals. This is especially true if these interactions are part of your career. 

I have been with my company in various capacities over the last 10 years and am currently in a quality assurance role for our technical support department. My company primarily deals with software and services used by lawyers, so I can relate to the sense of entitlement and "I'll have your job" mentality that Mr. Fuller seems to be throwing around here. 

I expect everyone under me to maintain professionalism at all times even when dealing with the most difficult of people. To answer your question about whether you were in the wrong, I'd say that you both were. 

I'd get fired if I responded like that to one of our customers or internal vendors.


----------



## MoshJosh (Sep 22, 2015)

Dude sounds like a real douche nozzle. Haha

Sad considering I've always been interested in their pedals. . .


----------



## jarledge (Sep 22, 2015)

High Plains Drifter said:


> The correspondence was doomed from the start.
> 
> Very condescending reply from him but when you decided to "push back", there was no way that it was going to end well.
> 
> ...



Yeah I agree with that. Looking back I should have probably said something different and not gotten so defensive. It was hard to not say what i said because i was just looking for advice in the first place. I feel like that got totally overlooked. I apparently wasn't as clear as I needed to be about what is wrong with the pedal.


----------



## downburst82 (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael is kind of notorious for his "customer service" 

Dont be surprized if he now puts more effort into making more trouble for you than fixing the original issue...


----------



## jarledge (Sep 22, 2015)

downburst82 said:


> Michael is kind of notorious for his "customer service"
> 
> Dont be surprized if he now puts more effort into making more trouble for you than fixing the original issue...



I dont care at this point. I had already put in my 2 weeks and my boss asked me stick around till they found a replacement. So it isn't like i have a career at guitar center, I am actually trying to move on.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 22, 2015)

Unrelated to the incident hopefully...


----------



## TedEH (Sep 22, 2015)

jarledge said:


> And I can send one email and end your career.[...]the head of one of your big accounts



Wow. Does kinda make me think less of fulltone. Certainly doesn't paint them in a good light, or make me feel confident about ever buying something from them. Customer service guy being a bit rude to match the tone of the conversation so far.... sure, not ideal, not professional, but I get it. But if you're in any position of vague authority over anything then I'd hold you to a higher standard than that.

I think you're a bit in the wrong to not take the high ground, but not unacceptably so. The other guy definitely seems "wrong-er" to me.


----------



## jarledge (Sep 22, 2015)

flint757 said:


> Unrelated to the incident hopefully...



Oh yeah, this was a few weeks ago. I took the job at GC because it worked with my college schedule and I am no longer going to college so I am trying to go back to work in my old field. GC has been fun, it doesn't pay great but what retail job does?


----------



## flint757 (Sep 22, 2015)

I've learned over the years due to my quick temper to read messages and if I feel angry afterward to either write it but not send it or just wait to respond. In your situation I would have been immediately fired had I responded right after receiving that exceptionally condescending message.

To me it comes across like an ego trip: 

"Nothing can possibly be wrong with my product, it must be that you're dumb"

"You dare to call me on my BS, I shall have you fired!"

---

Frankly, considering how unhelpful he was you wouldn't be unwarranted steering people from his product. If you can't get support without being pushed around then that product doesn't need an end user.

That being said, in the business world being right is meaningless. You just have to always be polite and pretend like the other person(s) is not a giant a$$hole. If they're like that all the time it will catch up with them.


----------



## Pav (Sep 22, 2015)

Damn, that is a shame. A very condescending response from a man being asked for advice on a product bearing his name. I have a number of Fulltone products and I love them, but now I pray nothing ever happens to them and have to email about them. 

He was wrong for talking to you like that but pushing back, while understandable, never helps the situation. Though since you're quitting the job anyway, I suppose it doesn't make much difference how you spoke to him.


----------



## watson503 (Sep 22, 2015)

Mike Fuller has built a reputation of being a total prick, if you ever get bored, google his name and you'll see countless posts/threads on people's interactions with this d-bag.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2015)

Yeah, Micheal is a condescending prick in emails, but damn does he make great pedals. 

I will say, when I've reached out to Fulltone as a user, not as a technician, I was treated MUCH better, but this is far from the first story of him being this way to repair techs.


----------



## Alex Kenivel (Sep 22, 2015)

Well sh!t the bed.. How rude..


----------



## Pav (Sep 23, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, Micheal is a condescending prick in emails, but damn does he make great pedals.



He certainly does. That could be how he developed this air of condescending douchebaggery.


----------



## Bearitone (Sep 23, 2015)

That guy was a fvcking loser. Definitely steering away from anything Fulltone. How can you treat the people that bought you're product, gave you their money, and keep you in business like trash? This got me upset


----------



## bloc (Sep 23, 2015)

He's probably mad because the Helix and FX8 are coming out soon


----------



## desmondtencents (Sep 23, 2015)

He can totally get away with being a dick. Especially regarding a question having to do with the OCD. I mean, he's got the market pretty much cornered there. Seriously, is there a single other company out there making decent over drives?
YEAH, I didn't think so!
You'd better watch your mouth next time


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2015)

I disagree with some of the guys here. Your initial email was exceptionally polite, and definitely above and beyond what would be expected of a music store employee. He was being a totally condescending jerk in his response to you, which shows a complete lack of good character. Why SHOULDN'T you stick up for yourself? I think it's ridiculous that you should be expected to take that sort of attitude and not have some sort of firm response. It's not like you punched the guy, or something way over the top. I manage 14 people at work and I would (and have) support one of my staff carrying on the way you did. And I would give you a pretty solid attaboy for sending the initial email in the first place. And if I was in an aggressive mood I'd email the vendor and either demand an apology or cease doing business with them. I respect people who do that, and I would want to work with people with decent character. And count me among the people who won't be buying a fulltone product.


----------



## The Q (Sep 23, 2015)

While his first reply was aggravating and invited your reply, I think you should have tried to keep your cool and be the professional one here, even if he wasn't. 

However, I do understand your frustration and I have to see that I consider this *Michael Fuller* guy an absolute and despicable idiot and I'd certainly never even consider buying anything from him (I didn't want to buy anything anyway, but were someone to ask me, I'll just point them to this thread). Rude people, especially on a professional level annoy me immensely.

Good thing you brought it up in my opinion, people like this need to learn to treat their clients & customers better before they're entitled to their money.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> I disagree with some of the guys here. Your initial email was exceptionally polite, and definitely above and beyond what would be expected of a music store employee. He was being a totally condescending jerk in his response to you, which shows a complete lack of good character. Why SHOULDN'T you stick up for yourself? I think it's ridiculous that you should be expected to take that sort of attitude and not have some sort of firm response. It's not like you punched the guy, or something way over the top. I manage 14 people at work and I would (and have) support one of my staff carrying on the way you did. And I would give you a pretty solid attaboy for sending the initial email in the first place. And if I was in an aggressive mood I'd email the vendor and either demand an apology or cease doing business with them. I respect people who do that, and I would want to work with people with decent character. And count me among the people who won't be buying a fulltone product.



Alas we work in a world where at most places of employment you can't do that. Sometimes you have to kiss ass to get ahead. I couldn't go into my place of employment and piss off the vendor even if he deserved it as if he decided to no longer work with us so would a lot of our business. That's just reality. 

People hold power over others and some douchebags choose to exercise that power. Whether that's a customer who could potentially leave a bad review (or simply smear your business), a business partner who can make your ship sink, a big game changing client or even someone simply over your head entirely. It's nice to stick up for what you believe in until you can't pay next months rent because you got fired.


----------



## jeremyb (Sep 23, 2015)

Wow, what a douchebag, even if I really dislike someone at work I'll always deal with them in a professional manner.... boggles the mind!


----------



## Lokasenna (Sep 23, 2015)

If it were my store, I'd be dropping the brand and posting that conversation on the wall as an explanation.


----------



## xCaptainx (Sep 23, 2015)

After receiving his initial response, I would have forwarded it straight to GC management and have them sort it out at an account management level. Not in your pay grade to be dealing with account managers with this amount of attitude. 

Your subsequent reply, as a representative of GC, wasn't the best idea but to be fair, you were baited into it. But again, not worth your headache and Managers get paid more to deal with dickheads like this, so just kick it up and be done with it.


----------



## 4Eyes (Sep 23, 2015)

I don't work in the same area, but as soon as someone from customer/vendor or whatever side replies in such manner I try to politely reply with same, but more detailed request, or explaining why the other side is wrong and I cc all relevant managers, project managers, senior managers etc... works like a charm


----------



## protest (Sep 23, 2015)

4Eyes said:


> I don't work in the same area, but as soon as someone from customer/vendor or whatever side replies in such manner I try to politely reply with same, but more detailed request, or explaining why the other side is wrong and I cc all relevant managers, project managers, senior managers etc... *works like a charm*



Yep, that's how you do it. Kill them with kindness and CC every senior manager you can with your reply to their email.

OP, you didn't handle it the best way that you could have, but honestly if your manager is worth a damn he would stick up for you. If something like that happens in the future the best thing to do is to either show you supervisor before responding, or do what was posted above.


Also this is how you handle someone saying your product doesn't work; here is an email exchange I had with an employee at Wampler:



> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if there is a way to tell the date a pedal was made?* I bought a Pinnacle on Ebay about a year ago, and just sold it online.* The person that received it says it does not work, but it was in working condition when I sent it. If the pedal was made in the past 5 years, would it still be under warranty for repair?
> 
> ...





> Protest,
> 
> If the pedal was built 5 years ago it will still be under warranty. We keep a catalog of all of our serial numbers. If you shoot me the serial number of the pedal  I can have our shipping lady look it up for you.
> 
> ...





> Hey Wampler Guy,
> 
> Thanks a lot! The serial is xxxxxx. The guy that bought it from me says that the signal works when the pedal is bypassed, and that the lights turn on when the pedal is activated, but no sound comes out.





> Protest,
> 
> That pedal was made in 2012. Its definitely covered under our 5 year warranty. It could a couple of things ranging from a mechanical failure in the by-pass switch to a dead battery. Have your buyer contact me and I can assist them.
> 
> Happy New Year!



Got a text a couple weeks later from the dude I sold the pedal to saying they sent him a brand new one. You don't get bitchy when people say your product failed. You look into it, and rectify the problem. I bought the pedal on ebay, I could have been the 5th owner, the pedal wasn't even mine anymore, and yet they didn't care.


----------



## Edika (Sep 23, 2015)

I'm kind of tempted to buy a Fulltone pedal, drain the battery leaving the guitar cables plugged in and then send it to the guy telling him it's draining the battery even when the cables are not plugged in (insert troll face meme).


----------



## Mordacain (Sep 23, 2015)

I wouldn't say you're completely in the wrong, though I've learned over the years that you never get snippy with a customer or the supplier (they are basically the same in a retail sense in terms of how you treat them).

I should also note, that only giving the initial email a quick read (ie: not a detailed look) I also only saw the part about the battery draining and misread the cutting output part and also thought initially: 'Well yea, that's how pedals are supposed to work, click it off and the pedal turns off, but the circuit is completed by the cable leads, so the battery will drain. Nothing wrong there." In Fuller's position, we have to imagine he's a very busy guy so that would seem like an immense waste of time if he read it the same way I did (on the first read).

That being said, there is never really a good excuse for churlish behavior either from a retailer or supplier, no matter how annoying or stupid a customer might be.


----------



## protest (Sep 23, 2015)

Mordacain said:


> I wouldn't say you're completely in the wrong, though I've learned over the years that you never get snippy with a customer or the supplier (they are basically the same in a retail sense in terms of how you treat them).
> 
> I should also note, that only giving the initial email a quick read (ie: not a detailed look) I also only saw the part about the battery draining and misread the cutting output part and also thought initially: 'Well yea, that's how pedals are supposed to work, click it off and the pedal turns off, but the circuit is completed by the cable leads, so the battery will drain. Nothing wrong there." In Fuller's position, we have to imagine he's a very busy guy so that would seem like an immense waste of time if he read it the same way I did (on the first read).
> 
> *That being said, there is never really a good excuse for churlish behavior* either from a retailer or supplier, no matter how annoying or stupid a customer might be.



Agreed. If you're so busy it forces you to be a dick to people with questions (no matter how simple) about your product, then it's time to hire someone to handle that stuff for you.


----------



## lemeker (Sep 23, 2015)

jarledge said:


> _
> 
> As far as the rest, you have shot your "troubleshooting credibility" by that "Battery" statement, so what you'll have to do BEFORE I'll entertain your repair is:_




Sorry, but this statement in any form or fashion is unprofessional and uncalled for. I too would have, for better or worse, jumped this guys case as well. 

The only thing I wouldn't have told him, but I see why you did, would be to tell him that your steering the customer to another company. I would have just refunded the money for the fulltone and been done with it.

This guy, from the emails, seems like a complete tool.


Protest: It actually strikes me as funny that they don't have a service department to handle these kinds of things already.


----------



## erdiablo666 (Sep 23, 2015)

Well, here's one company I'll never buy from.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien (Sep 23, 2015)

"One of Guitar Centers biggest accounts"

What a joke...
Guitar Center loses more money to theft than Fulltone brings in for them. 

Thy guy is a huge jerk. OP could have handled it better...but shouldn't have needed too.


----------



## NinjaRaf (Sep 23, 2015)

I was thinking the same thing...There is NO friggin way that Fulltone is one of GCs biggest accounts. Not with Fender, Gibson, Peavey, EVH, Marshall...etc. 

I'm behind you 100% OP. What a douchenozzle. I have a pretty short fuse when it comes to this kind of stuff, and I tend not to tolerate .... from anyone, so if someone wants to talk to me like that, they're getting it back 100%...for better or worse. Luckily, any time this has happened at work, I have been fortunate enough to have management back me with my response. Give respect, and get it back. Act like a douche, and get that back, too.


----------



## vick1000 (Sep 23, 2015)

One of GC's biggest accounts?

Pffft.

Sorry Fuller, you should rename your company to "full'o", 'cause you couldn't be "fuller".

You should have sent the first reply to corporate, and let them handle it.

I have rolled a few OCDs through my collection, they are not all that great, pretty run of the mill modded 808 clones. Much better built and sonic units out there for the price, or even for less cabbage.


----------



## exo (Sep 23, 2015)

Well, I know I won't be buying a Fulltone pedal after seeing that exchange, that's for sure.


----------



## MaxSwagger (Sep 23, 2015)

I've had a couple of their overdrives, sold em. They were pretty nice but there's better out there and especially from better people. No one needs to deal with a condescending Carl, especially when it's on someone else's behalf.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Sep 23, 2015)

Nah, not in the wrong, dude is just acting like a dick. He didn't understand your original email, and a polite clarification request would have been in order. Instead, he decided to berate you - just a simple asshole.


----------



## The Q (Sep 23, 2015)

If the OP is OK with that, contact that guy on his site and let him know about this thread and how he's hurt his own business. See if he remains offensive after that.


----------



## Rev2010 (Sep 23, 2015)

I think it speaks volumes as to a person's character and own insecurities when they reply with such utter arrogance and lack of class or decency to someone whom they've never even met. 


Rev.


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2015)

flint757 said:


> Alas we work in a world where at most places of employment you can't do that. Sometimes you have to kiss ass to get ahead. I couldn't go into my place of employment and piss off the vendor even if he deserved it as if he decided to no longer work with us so would a lot of our business. That's just reality.
> 
> People hold power over others and some douchebags choose to exercise that power. Whether that's a customer who could potentially leave a bad review (or simply smear your business), a business partner who can make your ship sink, a big game changing client or even someone simply over your head entirely. It's nice to stick up for what you believe in until you can't pay next months rent because you got fired.



Yeah, that's true. If it were a big client, then I would pull my employee aside, and discuss it with him, but I would also let him know that I didn't think he was wrong, and that the other person was wrong. I definitely would suck up to the big client. But I would never fire my employee over it. If the client gave me an ultimatum, fire the guy or lose the client, then I would have to call his bluff. But I'm also in a situation in my life where I can afford next month's rent, so it's difficult to put myself directly in someone else's shoes. Though, I have to say that in this particular situation, Guitar Center is certainly doing Fuller more favors than the other way around. I have no way of knowing, but I think that if Fuller pulled his products he would be hurt substantially more than GC. So it would be interesting to see him get into a pissing match with GC.

And on another note, often we talk at the employee level of things like this. But really, if this were between two big companies - let's say a CEO of one company says that the CEO of another company needs to fire their employee - there isn't really a making rent situation. It's just about two CEOs fighting. And it does seem that the CEO that shows good character, sticks up for his employees, and does the right thing, comes out on top at least 50% of the time. Idk, I just think this is one of those occasions where the boss needs to make the hard call - do what is right, and may make the company money in the long term, or kiss ass and make money in the short term. I'm sort of an idealist in that I'm rooting for the hypothetical boss in these circumstances to do the right thing, and hope that it develops some loyalty and goodwill.


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2015)

Rev2010 said:


> I think it speaks volumes as to a person's character and own insecurities when they reply with such utter arrogance and lack of class or decency to someone whom they've never even met.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Yeah, I read somewhere that you can judge a person's character pretty quickly by seeing how they treat the waitstaff at a restaurant. It's so true! I've been out with people who treat the waiters like crap, and I'm always secretly hoping that the manager comes out and says, "I'm sorry, but you're an asshole, and we won't be serving you today." But, alas, despite that "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" I haven't see this happen. The only saving grace is that the idiots who mistreat the waiters haven't figured out that these are the people who control what goes on their food before it makes it to the table.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Sep 23, 2015)

Hahaha wow. What an asshat. Guess that's another brand I'll be avoiding from here on out. Thanks for sharing this, OP.


----------



## Preciousyetvicious (Sep 23, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I read somewhere that you can judge a person's character pretty quickly by seeing how they treat the waitstaff at a restaurant. It's so true! I've been out with people who treat the waiters like crap, and I'm always secretly hoping that the manager comes out and says, "I'm sorry, but you're an asshole, and we won't be serving you today." But, alas, despite that "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" I haven't see this happen. The only saving grace is that the idiots who mistreat the waiters haven't figured out that these are the people who control what goes on their food before it makes it to the table.



As a former long-time server in the restaurant biz, I can attest, 'tis true! I've personally never ....ed with anyone's food, but I've heard some pretty nasty stories...  And I have zero problem laying right into any friend that thinks it's okay to treat a server like that. None whatsoever.

The whole "refusing service right" I find is more prevalent in the bar industry than restaurant. For some reason, it's more socially acceptable for a bartender for be all, "Get the .... out of my bar!" than a server to say,"Get off your ass and get your own damn food!"

Which is why I'm SO glad I work at a bar now and not a restaurant.


----------



## russmuller (Sep 24, 2015)

That guy's a dick.

Thanks for sharing this. If that's how they treat their customers (or their dealers helping customers), I'll never buy their products.


----------



## big_aug (Sep 24, 2015)

What a dickwad

Just make sure your emails are well written and not emotional if you want to push back. You can professionally tell someone screw off


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2015)

Preciousyetvicious said:


> And I have zero problem laying right into any friend that thinks it's okay to treat a server like that. None whatsoever.



Totally! I wish more people would call their friends out on stuff like this. Or even strangers. Like, a few years ago I was on this flight, and this guy brought an enoooooormous carryon onto the airplane, and he couldn't get it into the overhead bin. So the flight attendant came up and asked if she could help, and the guy was a total dick, and was like, "Well, yeah, it's your JOB. You people make these bins too small. You figure it out. I paid good money to be on here, so you better fit it in there, and you better not scratch it up or break anything." And then he continued to be a total jerk. So I sat there trying to mind my own business, but I just kept getting more and more pissed. So after takeoff, and when the seatbelt sign went off, I walked up the few seats to him and told him that what he said was totally uncalled for, and he should apologize to her. Of course he said he was totally in the right, and we argued for a bit, and then I basically sat back down, saying that it was on him to do the right thing. (Kinda wished I was like 50 lbs heavier so I could have imposed more of a threat than my 158 lbs do, lol.) But at least *I *felt better after it. Not sure if it changed him at all. I know people call this sort of thing vigilantism, and that we should mind our own business, but I say .... that. Standing up for treating people like humans should be something we all do. (And not to pat myself on the back. Lord knows I've lost my cool more times than I should have, and probably have worn ye olde ass hat more than my fair share.)


----------



## Vrollin (Sep 24, 2015)

i keep popping back in here hoping that he has been directed to this thread and decides to spew his arrogance in here....


----------



## Rev2010 (Sep 24, 2015)

big_aug said:


> Just make sure your emails are well written and not emotional if you want to push back. You can professionally tell someone screw off



 I like to do the "What would Spock write back?" 


Rev.


----------



## slapnutz (Sep 24, 2015)

Read the emails, .... that guy and .... his products. 

Glad I found out about his ....iness, staying well away from his .... and will spread word to let others decide for themselves.

Sure you reply wasn't 100% professional but TBH I wouldn't bother myself even deal with that ....head once after his initial response. Sorry I just have very low tolerance for arrogant pricks like him when it was not provoked.

Again, .... him and his ....'in company.


----------



## bnzboy (Sep 24, 2015)

never buying fulltone stuff in the future


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Sep 24, 2015)

I may be in the minority, but I think even your "slightly unprofessional replies" were well within reason. Dude's a piece of .... and you weren't.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2015)

So glad Joyo makes an OCD clone.


----------



## jarledge (Sep 24, 2015)

*So I just got this email this morning. *

_There goes your $5 per hour GC job...woops, IP address visible. Lol
Scott send this on to GC brass.
> 
> Michael Fuller
> President, Fulltone Musical Products Inc.
> 
> This communication may contain privileged and/or confidential information.
> It is intended solely for the use of the addressee. You are strictly prohibited from 
> disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of this information. If you received this 
> communication in error, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material
> in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy
> 
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2015, at 5:56 AM, Fulltone Musical Products, Inc. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Submitted on Thursday, September 24, 2015 - 05:56
>> Submitted by user:
>> Submitted values are:
>> 
>> Subject: General Question or Suggestion
>> Name: Not Michael Fuller
>> Email Address: [email protected]
>> Country: United States
>> Message:
>> Hi, I am not Michael Fuller. If I was, I'd be a .... who doesn't know how to talk to people properly in an non condescending manner, be it end users or dealers. Glad to see your pathetic email replies are being shared to the world.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> NMF.
>>_



*So I didn't write that original email, but it is my fault he treated me the way he did. *


----------



## erdiablo666 (Sep 24, 2015)

I don't understand. Who is this "Not Michael Fuller" and what is he talking about. Also, what does the other guy mean by IP address visible? Am I dense?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2015)

I think NMF is a troll that Mike thought was Jarledge.


----------



## Rev2010 (Sep 24, 2015)

erdiablo666 said:


> I don't understand. Who is this "Not Michael Fuller" and what is he talking about. Also, what does the other guy mean by IP address visible? Am I dense?



Seems obvious someone went to FullTone's website and used the contact form to submit a message and Michael Fuller thought it was from OP.


Rev.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 24, 2015)

He's a little late to the game either way since he isn't working there anymore. I don't see how he thinks continuing with the threats is going to improve his reputation. It looks like he's referring to the 'e-mail contract' as a means of 'officially' getting him canned. He needs a bigger shovel I think.  Even that reply was so smug...

So essentially he was hiding behind that 'agreement' as a means to be an asshole.


----------



## Bearitone (Sep 24, 2015)

Wow. I have lost all respect for anything fulltone. Period. 

You're not going to lose you're job because THAT WASNT YOU that said that, but still, I'm so sorry you have to deal with this OP. It appears that Fuller thinks, that because he can build a ....ing pedal, he can belittle another human being and vindictively try to do harm. He does not deserve his position. Those who can't manage a position of "power" without losing human decency should be stripped of said position.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2015)

kindsage said:


> You're not going to lose you're job because THAT WASNT YOU that said that,



That, plus the OP IS already quitting, plus the store actually does want him to stay, so I think ol' Mikey needs to cool his jets.


----------



## Moltar (Sep 24, 2015)

Seems like the usual wannabe authoritarian. I was interested in a fulltone catalyst, but I wouldn't use one even if it was free.


----------



## vick1000 (Sep 24, 2015)

GC brass?

What a dip sh*t.

We can all contact "GC brass" as well there "Mr. Full'o". What do you think is going to happen? Afterall, we buy all their sh*t, you are just a supplier of a minute fraction of their pedal inventory.


----------



## TedEH (Sep 24, 2015)

jarledge said:


> but it is my fault he treated me the way he did.



Not sure what you're trying to say, but I hope that's sarcasm. I don't know enough about fulltone to know if you're really speaking to Fuller or someone that works for him, but in either case, they've made a fool of themselves pretty publicly, and none of that was your fault. Even if you were the worst, most abusive contact they could have possibly encountered, it still falls on them (him?) to respond professionally to that. I re-read the conversation a couple o times- and sure, maybe your responses were not ideal, but you were responding to the tone of the conversation and even tried to reign it in and make the point that you're just doing your job. Every response you've received got more and more arrogant as the conversation continues. And like I said before, if he's really such an "important person", then his words/actions weigh more heavily than yours do. You're representing, what, the customer server section of a chain store? You can get away with being a bit rude if it's needed. He's representing an entire business, and can do a lot more damage to his own image just over a stupid email argument. That's on him, not you.

I'm pretty sure I'd never buy a product from someone who responds to their support forms with "There goes your $5 per hour GC job." If they lose a ton of business over this, I won't feel bad about it.


----------



## Rev2010 (Sep 24, 2015)

Heh, just did a Google search for his name out of curiosity and wow.... the amount of threads from people having the same sort of interactions with him and posting about it. I can only imagine he treats everyone this way but I'm starting to wonder if he only acts this way from a safe position. Cause the thing is treating people like sh*t _in person_ eventually catches up to you. You get a guy with a short fuse who doesn't give a rats ass about the consequences.


Rev.


----------



## decreebass (Sep 24, 2015)

Thanks for this thread. Will stay away from Fulltone until he apologizes to you, TC.


----------



## Jeff (Sep 24, 2015)

I certainly won't be buying a Fulltone pedal ever. Back in the day, he was one of the first "boutique" pedal builders. Now, there's just no shortage whatsoever, and some, like Wampler, provide way, WAY better CS.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Sep 24, 2015)

I wish I could say I intended to buy a pedal from them just so I could not do it. .... it, the dude's a grade a nozzle. He can shove his pedals up his smug ass.


----------



## TedEH (Sep 24, 2015)

I fully recommend that anyone reading this google the guys name. Some worthwhile reading to be found.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 24, 2015)

Top result is him essentially stealing someones pedal that they sent in for a repair estimate and him telling them to sue him (sarcastically I assume). 

It seems he's known for being a tool and that was 4 years ago. Since he's still in business I assume this has only further inflated his ego.


----------



## erdiablo666 (Sep 24, 2015)

Just Googled and...wow...

How is this guy still in business?


----------



## noUser01 (Sep 24, 2015)

It's unfortunate to hear that Michael is just as disappointing as his pedals. You are definitely not the one in the wrong on this one.

Good thing people make clones of his pedals. Zero sympathy for that piece of trash.


----------



## viesczy (Sep 24, 2015)

Honestly, you were wrong to get so defensive/passive-aggressive right away.

Remember, you're not paid to get mad/offended. Also they don't pay you enough to take anything personally that is said to you. 

Despite his "your troubleshooting skill" billet doux, he asked for something to be able to know the situation. 

FWIW I get it as I too find it HARD to just take it easy, man.

Derek


----------



## metaljohn (Sep 24, 2015)

Oh man... if I were the GC employee that received that response, they would have HAD to fire me. I'm way more of a condescending dickhead than this guy is. Trolling egotistical asshats is a passion of mine.

You were as tame as a newborn puppy compared to the responses he would have gotten from me.

edit: in all fairness, I would have given him one response to stop being a dick before I had to keep it 100 lol


----------



## jarledge (Sep 24, 2015)

TedEH said:


> Not sure what you're trying to say, but I hope that's sarcasm. I don't know enough about fulltone to know if you're really speaking to Fuller or someone that works for him, but in either case, they've made a fool of themselves pretty publicly, and none of that was your fault. Even if you were the worst, most abusive contact they could have possibly encountered, it still falls on them (him?) to respond professionally to that. I re-read the conversation a couple o times- and sure, maybe your responses were not ideal, but you were responding to the tone of the conversation and even tried to reign it in and make the point that you're just doing your job. Every response you've received got more and more arrogant as the conversation continues. And like I said before, if he's really such an "important person", then his words/actions weigh more heavily than yours do. You're representing, what, the customer server section of a chain store? You can get away with being a bit rude if it's needed. He's representing an entire business, and can do a lot more damage to his own image just over a stupid email argument. That's on him, not you.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'd never buy a product from someone who responds to their support forms with "There goes your $5 per hour GC job." If they lose a ton of business over this, I won't feel bad about it.



yes i was being sarcastic. How can you treat someone like that and expect them to not share their experience/interaction with you?

That email wasn't me, and I don't know why he would associate it as coming from me. I turned over the conversation to my boss who turned it over the GC HR. I haven't responded to the email i got this morning or the last one i got from him that I posted in my original post. 

This whole thing is crazy to me. I dont know how you are still in business if you treat your customers like this.


----------



## xCaptainx (Sep 24, 2015)

ConnorGilks said:


> It's unfortunate to hear that Michael is just as disappointing as his pedals. You are definitely not the one in the wrong on this one.
> 
> Good thing people make clones of his pedals. Zero sympathy for that piece of trash.



Yup Mooer do a great copy of the OCD. I'd recommend picking that up instead!


----------



## noUser01 (Sep 24, 2015)

viesczy said:


> Honestly, you were wrong to get so defensive/passive-aggressive right away.
> 
> Remember, you're not paid to get mad/offended. Also they don't pay you enough to take anything personally that is said to you.
> 
> ...



Problem is, you said "despite", meaning you're tossing that aside. And that whole "despite" part is important. I don't toss rocks in your cereal and go "Besides the rocks, you got fed like you wanted." 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't give people a lot of wiggle room when it comes to being an asshole. It's so easy to be a decent human being, it's so incredibly easy, that there's no excuse for being passive aggressive and bitter towards someone who hasn't done anything to you.
*
xCaptainx:* I would if I didn't hate OCD's with a passion.  But I'm sure the Mooer copy is great, they make fantastic stuff.


----------



## Vrollin (Sep 24, 2015)

viesczy said:


> Remember, you're not paid to get mad/offended. Also they don't pay you enough to take anything personally that is said to you.
> Derek



He's still within his right to be pissed off with someone talking down to him. If someone came into your work, claimed you were doing a .... job and spat in your face would you take it like a bitch as you are implying he should or would you get mad and on the defence about it. Remember your not paid to be mad in this situation...


----------



## charlessalvacion (Sep 25, 2015)

Remember you are not working to be treated like that.

Whats good about Fulltone pedals by the way?


----------



## p4vl (Sep 25, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So glad Joyo makes an OCD clone.



Hopefully the Joyo/Mooer clones will put this man in his place at some point. OP, you were not rude. Nor did he have any excuse to treat you rudely. 

"I am trying to teach you how to interact with the head of one of your big accountstough guy."

Yes, belittling and mocking someone's job and level of competence over a broken pedal is a surefire way to open a meaningful dialogue. Doesn't sound at all like he was looking to abuse someone/mental illness/mean drunk.


----------



## sinnersmoon (Sep 25, 2015)

xCaptainx said:


> After receiving his initial response, I would have forwarded it straight to GC management and have them sort it out at an account management level. Not in your pay grade to be dealing with account managers with this amount of attitude.



^
This
I`m a team leader in Customer Service dept and would manage such issue exactly this way.


----------



## Zado (Sep 25, 2015)

charlessalvacion said:


> Whats good about Fulltone pedals by the way?



Like Jazzhands said,they have very good clones


----------



## slapnutz (Sep 25, 2015)

jarledge said:


> *So I just got this email this morning. *
> 
> _There goes your $5 per hour GC job...woops, IP address visible. Lol_


_

So is he not only a f**kwit, he also know jacks**t about how IP traffic works. Unless the IP is specific to the US address pool and even after that, it would have to be a range that your GC ISP has allocated to it.

...and even IF (and thats a big IF) matches, all it means is that email was sent from a IP address that belongs to your GC ISP's public IP range. I.e if "John Smith" in the next suburb sent it from his house and his ISP is the same as GC's ISP (e.g. Verizon)... all Fulltone should see is that this came from a Version IP address. He is now the dickhead that is been "Assumptive"

EDIT: Had a look at their site, yep is just an online contact form,which means anyone can use any online proxy to fake any countries IP address when filling out that form. The Fulltone guy is just being presumptuous that its you atm. (still he is a dick)_


----------



## big_aug (Sep 26, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> He's still within his right to be pissed off with someone talking down to him. If someone came into your work, claimed you were doing a .... job and spat in your face would you take it like a bitch as you are implying he should or would you get mad and on the defence about it. Remember your not paid to be mad in this situation...



We deal with people 100x worse on a daily basis (phone customer service and tech support). You'd be appalled at how people behave on the phone speaking to another person who is actually trying to help.


----------



## sylcfh (Sep 26, 2015)

p4vl said:


> Hopefully the Joyo/Mooer clones will put this man in his place at some point.





I have all his designs being made at a factory in China for my company under the "Fullblown" name.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 26, 2015)

Regarding the products, Fulltone isn't after the boost market like other makers. 

The real attraction is stuff like the Tube Tape Echo, which try as they might, no one has figured out to to replicate fully without the proprietary tape which Fulltone has all of. They have, and have had for a long time, that market pretty much owned. 

You can hate Mike Fuller, and rightfully so, but lets not pretend the products are lousy and that his staff aren't top notch. 

Hoping for Chinese and Korean copy cats to put pedal makers out of business is not a good thing, no matter what you think of one guy who owns one. 

I think this thread has run it's course.


----------

