# Schecter's 9/11 Email: Offensive?



## Chris (Sep 11, 2007)

This is the email Schecter is sending folks on their mailing list today. Read the bold text at the bottom - what do you think? It certainly rubs me the wrong way.



> *This tribute is NOT a political statement.* It is a simple reminder of a
> tragic event , and presented with the hope that all of us will keep those who lost their lives that day in our thoughts & prayers.
> 
> Sincerely,
> ...





Schecter.com said:


> Q: Where are Schecter guitars and basses made?
> 
> A: Our Diamond Series guitars and basses are manufactured in South Korea(unless otherwise specified on the guitar), and 100% set up in the USA, in our Burbank, CA facility. Our Custom Shop guitars and basses are 100% handmade here in Burbank.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

How would that be a political statement?


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## noodles (Sep 11, 2007)

I like how the sun shining through the buildings makes a nice little cross, and the president of Schecter is asking me to pray. 

Right now, I don't want to see any of this "Remember 9/11" stuff, until we are out of Iraq for fucking good. It is too easily manipulated for the wrong reasons.


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## Chris (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm quite a bit agitated that Schecter, who has "Made in the USA" stamped on every one of their guitars that I own, would toss a line like that in their 9/11 email. 

Whoever wrote that has no balls, nor any sense of patriotism whatsoever.  I can only guess that it's in there so as not to offend their overseas customers, or to be so over-the-top politically correct it's not even funny. It's completely unnecessary.


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## Naren (Sep 11, 2007)

Pathetic. I'd prefer they didn't even do anything for 9/11 than do this.


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## jim777 (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm not seeing it Chris, sorry. I wouldn't have done it, but I don't find it terribly offensive either.


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## Drew (Sep 11, 2007)

The "This is NOT a political statement" doesn't rub me the wrong way. Sadly, thanks to the way this war has been spun, it's almost necessary to put a disclaimer on ANY "9/11 - never forget" statement that you don't mean it as an expplicit endorsement of the Republican party and the policies of George W. Bush. 

The fact they sent it at all is kind of odd, though, seeing as, you know, they're a California and not a New York company. Sure, we're all Americans, but it seems to be in slightly poor taste for a California company to be sending out a tribute to those who died in New York on a mailing list of their customers... I'm leery of the line between patriotism, tragedy, and commerce.


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## Chris (Sep 11, 2007)

I just think that if you're going to send out something like this, you don't need a disclaimer or a byline to make it's intent politically correct. It cheapens it, even more than the schecter logo plastered onto the image itself.



> The fact they sent it at all is kind of odd, though, seeing as, you know, they're a California and not a New York company.



They're an American company.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

Chris said:


> I just think that if you're going to send out something like this, you don't need a disclaimer or a byline to make it's intent politically correct. It cheapens it, even more than the schecter logo plastered onto the image itself.
> 
> 
> 
> They're an American company.



Now I get it.  

I agree with you, Chris.


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## Leon (Sep 11, 2007)

i find it entirely offensive on the grounds that i will *never* forget that day. i don't need a fucking guitar manufacturer to remind me about what happened.

now, if Mr Schecter himself wants to come post in Ken's 9/11 thread, that would be alright. but a mass email? fuck that


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## Drew (Sep 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> Sadly, thanks to the way this war has been spun, it's almost necessary to put a disclaimer on ANY "9/11 - never forget" statement that you don't mean it as an expplicit endorsement of the Republican party and the policies of George W. Bush.



I should probably elaborate - we have the 2004 presidential election to thank for this. Bush and, especially, Cheney began hinting, first very subtly, and later not so subtly, that we couldn't forget what happened to us on 9/11, and that we had to make sure it would never happen again. As we got closer to the election, that gradually morphed into Cheney's straight-out statement two days before the election, that if a Democrat won, we'd have "another 9/11" on our hands. 

Basically, Bush and Cheney used "Remember 9/11" as a rallying call against the Democrats - that Republians remembered 9/11 and Democrats did not, and that if you "Remembered 9/11" then you should vote for a Republican so the terrorists wouldn't attack again. 

It's fucking disgusting the way the tragedy was politicized, and was an absolute insult to those who lost loved ones at the World Trade Center and Pentagon and to the memory of those who diied, but "9/11: Never Forget" has been politicized just as much as "Support Our Troops" has.


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## Drew (Sep 11, 2007)

Chris said:


> They're an American company.



Yeah, I didn't articulate it too well. I guess what I was trying to say, and what rubs me the wrong way, is that an American guitar manufacturer based in California, taken in the bigger picture, has very little to do with what happened in New York that day, and it sort of strikes me as being not their place to send me an email reminding me about it.


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## eaeolian (Sep 11, 2007)

Yes, but that's basically because these tributes are starting to make me sick. You really want to remember those people? Try to make the world a better place, so that we don't have to have these discussions.


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## jim777 (Sep 11, 2007)

Maybe Michael Ciravolo knew someone who died that day? Lots of people do, I can name 30 myself. If you don't say "This is not a..." then you leave it open to interpretation which is ridiculously foolish. I don't see a need for this, as I said, but evidently he did, so whatever. I'd rather remember the people than the day myself, it wasn't a good day.


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## noodles (Sep 11, 2007)

eaeolian said:


> Yes, but that's basically because these tributes are starting to make me sick. You really want to remember those people? Try to make the world a better place, so that we don't have to have these discussions.


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## Groff (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with it.

It's just a picture and a harmless tribute to a tragic event.

I think the "This is not a political statement" line is just so someone who reads it isn't going to be like "zOMG!!11! SCHEVTER SUPPORTS THE WAR IN IRACK!!1! THYRE WAR MONGERS!! I WILL NEVER BUY A GUITAR FROM TEHM AGIEN!!1!   "

...Cause you know that there are people out there who really ARE that sensitive/dumb...



jim777 said:


> . If you don't say "This is not a..." then you leave it open to interpretation which is ridiculously foolish..



...I read this just now, and that's basically what I was trying to say...


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## eleven59 (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm in Canada, I own two Schecter guitars, I remember 9/11 fully, and don't need an e-mail thanks. 

I find it about as offensive as any other American "patriotism" used in the media these days. 

To me, (just as it was each of the previous years they sent an e-mail like this, and also changed their website for it) this seems less like patriotism, and less like a political statement as "Hey, if we say we love America, racist, ignorant fucktards will ignore the fact that our guitars aren't actually built in the USA and will buy more of our guitars because we're proud to be an American company".


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## Drew (Sep 11, 2007)

jim777 said:


> I'd rather remember the people than the day myself, it wasn't a good day.



Best post in this entire discussion.


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## bostjan (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't have a huge problem with it, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I feel that someone at Schecter must have had a good idea. It just became a corporate thing. Big companies always try to cover their butts to the point of cheapening every statement and commercializing every sentiment.

It would have been wiser for them to leave the email out of it, for sure.


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## Chris (Sep 11, 2007)

bostjan said:


> I don't have a huge problem with it, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I feel that someone at Schecter must have had a good idea. It just became a corporate thing. Big companies always try to cover their butts to the point of cheapening every statement and commercializing every sentiment.
> 
> It would have been wiser for them to leave the email out of it, for sure.



That's pretty much how I feel. I'm not completely offended by it, but as soon as a buddy of mine pointed it out, I did the ol' .


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## eleven59 (Sep 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> Best post in this entire discussion.



+1 He just nailed exactly what's been bothering me since 9/11 happened. People were so sad for America, I couldn't stop thinking of the people in the buildings. When I watched the footage on the news, I wasn't scared of a war starting, I wasn't worried about the political ramifications, I was thinking of how horrible it was for the people in those buildings, and their families.

To me, all of the "Remember 9/11" stuff and the talk of how it hurt America was a little like saying "You think you've had a bad day? I know your house burned down, but all my stuff smells like smoke!" It just felt like people were taking something horrible that happened to a bunch of people, and tried to make it their own so that they could feel special too, in some weird way.

(no offense intended to anyone, just my personal opinion)

This, on the other hand, is basically guaranteed some hate mail. Not sure what to think myself yet:


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## bigheadood (Sep 11, 2007)

Schecter did not offend me. Just typical bandwagon crap. Cliche, but still a good sentiment.

That cartoon, on the other hand....
Too much truth wrapped up in that shit. Not funny.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

That cartoon is so messed up.


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## Lee (Sep 11, 2007)

Agreed. Cyanide and Happiness pissed me off today. I do agree with Drew's sentiment that any "Remember 9/11" statement almost requires a "not political" disclaimer, just due to the political climate of our country right now.


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## 7StringofAblicK (Sep 11, 2007)

Meh, I think Schecter's intentions are truly sincere. With that said, I read it and don't particularly find it offensive. Of course having read the statements in this thread, I see some of the argument. But at the end of the day, it's just an email asking those to remember, regardless of what ignorant line prefaced the whole thing.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

^ 

Remember the people. That should be it.


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## Lee (Sep 11, 2007)

I think the whole thing was well intended.


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## kung_fu (Sep 11, 2007)

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way is the schecter name being on the tribute picture.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

Gotta be able to sell something.


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## Cancer (Sep 11, 2007)

I didn't think it was poor taste at all, I actually thought it was brave and touching...

Think of it this way, they could have said nothing.....

If nothing else it inspired discussions on the boards which, if nothing else, I'm sure put a smile on marketing's face, if that was even their intention (I'm going to NOT play the cynic today and believe that it was sincere).



eleven59 said:


> This, on the other hand, is basically guaranteed some hate mail. Not sure what to think myself yet:





^^^^^Now this, is in poor taste. At least the Schecter ad tried to be classy....


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## ElRay (Sep 11, 2007)

The ad itself doesn't really bug me, but the idea of corporate empathy as an advertising technique does (both the fact that it's done and that it works). That said, I don't know the company and the folks involved well enough to know if there is some genuine emotion and a real "reason" for wanting all their customers to think about the direct victims.

What really bugs me is the fact that "we" (as a species, it doesn't seem limited to the U.S.A.) are so friggin' black&white, if you think _____, you must be _____, apply a label and knee-jerk response without thinking for yourself sheep that the "not a political statement" bit even has to be included.  

[action=ElRay]Climbs up on the venerable soapbox to rant[/action]
The statement, "I think we need to fix what we broke in Iraq before we leave." is not equivalent to, "I agree that we were totally right to invade when we did." is not equivalent to "I love George Bush and agree with everything his subset of the Republican Party says.", etc.

Nor is a statement against a Democrat equivalent to "I'm a devout Republican and disagreeing simply because it's a Democrat." and even if that was true, it's not equivalent to "I love George Bush and agree with everything his subset of the Republican Party says."

Likewise complaining about the ever expanding and more invasive Federal Government eroding our Civil Rights (whether it's the ones that the Republicans like or the ones that the Democrats like, neither of the Big Two support all of them) is not the same thing as supporting anarchy or "letting the terrorists win".

It's that same crap that makes Vernon Reid, Cancer and my wife oddities to people on both sides of the European/African heritage fence because of the music they like.
[action=ElRay]Gets off soapbox before it turns into a Chris Farley-style foaming at the mouth.[/action]

I could go on, but I was having a hard time not crossing the NWS threshold.

Ray


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## ohio_eric (Sep 11, 2007)

If anything pisses me off about these kinds of "tributes" it the fucked up ideals of the people that send them. 

I tend to say fuck the buildings. Let's remember the people that were murdered. Let's honor the 343 firefighters that died trying to save people. Let's remember how this nation for one fleeting moment pulled together to help those in need and to make sure this never happens again. That's what we ought to remember. Fuck the pretty pictures of the WTC. It should be about the people. It should give comfort to those who still grief and honor those who died for some asshole's agenda.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> If anything pisses me off about these kinds of "tributes" it the fucked up ideals of the people that send them.
> 
> I tend to say fuck the buildings. Let's remember the people that were murdered. Let's honor the 343 firefighters that died trying to save people. Let's remember how this nation for one fleeting moment pulled together to help those in need and to make sure this never happens again. That's what we ought to remember. Fuck the pretty pictures of the WTC. It should be about the people. It should give comfort to those who still grief and honor those who died for some asshole's agenda.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 11, 2007)

I think its schecter's token advertisement to make the people who wear the "Never forget" shirts and whatnot. Personally, it doesnt bother me. But isn't having the whole country dwelling on this kind of thing the exact intention of the people who perpetrated it?


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## Drew (Sep 11, 2007)

Cancer said:


> Think of it this way, they could have said nothing.....



Actually, I think that would have been more tasteful and more respectful than sending out a promotional email.


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## playstopause (Sep 11, 2007)

ElRay said:


> The ad itself doesn't really bug me, but the idea of corporate empathy as an advertising technique does (both the fact that it's done and that it works).



Well said.
Offensive? Not really.
Out of place? Absolutely.


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## Naren (Sep 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, I think that would have been more tasteful and more respectful than sending out a promotional email.



 I personally would have thought them not sending ANYTHING would have been much much better. So I actually tend to disagree with Cancer on most of his post. I also don't understand why EVERYONE seems to feel an obligation to remind people not to forget. As if someone is actually going to say, "9/11? What's that? No... no idea..."

I'll stop there before I throw myself into a long rant.


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## eleven59 (Sep 12, 2007)

Naren said:


> I personally would have thought them not sending ANYTHING would have been much much better. So I actually tend to disagree with Cancer on most of his post. I also don't understand why EVERYONE seems to feel an obligation to remind people not to forget. As if someone is actually going to say, "9/11? What's that? No... no idea..."
> 
> I'll stop there before I throw myself into a long rant.



I dunno, I remember a video of American's being asked questions, and most of them couldn't correctly answer "What month did 9/11 happen?"


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## Drew (Sep 12, 2007)

Naren said:


> I personally would have thought them not sending ANYTHING would have been much much better. So I actually tend to disagree with Cancer on most of his post. I also don't understand why EVERYONE seems to feel an obligation to remind people not to forget. As if someone is actually going to say, "9/11? What's that? No... no idea..."
> 
> I'll stop there before I throw myself into a long rant.



 

I also guess I just don't see what's so "brave and touching" about... 


...sending out an email.


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## Drew (Sep 12, 2007)

eleven59 said:


> I dunno, I remember a video of American's being asked questions, and most of them couldn't correctly answer "What month did 9/11 happen?"



...and I've seen, with my own eyes, grafiti saying "9/11/00 - Never Forget," in the bathroom of a chinese buffet place in Michigan. Sure, it could have been a wise-ass remark, but given the context I think it was just someone who drank the cool-aid because everyone else was, and had no fucking clue what had gone on.


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## Groff (Sep 12, 2007)

Drew said:


> ...and I've seen, with my own eyes, grafiti saying "9/11/00 - Never Forget," in the bathroom of a chinese buffet place in Michigan. Sure, it could have been a wise-ass remark, but given the context I think it was just someone who drank the cool-aid because everyone else was, and had no fucking clue what had gone on.



I've written "11/9/01 We will never forget their loss" on bathroom walls...

But that's an inside joke pertaining to a completely DIFFRENT subject. But I hope that the other 99% of the population reads it and is like "OMG! THEY GOT THE DATE WRONG!" and don't realize I mean something diffrent.


I think the whole tribute to 9/11 every year is getting annoying... Never forget the lives lost, but for the love of god get over it (with the exception of those directly involved... God knows what the go through every year when they're reminded that two buildings fell down).

But honestly, i'm glad they just included a neat picture and said "Never forget" instead of going on a mile long rant about how 9/11 changed america as we know it.

That i'm grateful for.

So while I don't really mind that people make stuff like this in rememberance, but I hate it when they blow it out of proportion and get all preachy and shit.

Those people annoy me as much as how born again christians try to get me to convert against my will.


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## Cancer (Sep 12, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, I think that would have been more tasteful and more respectful than sending out a promotional email.



Perhaps that's the difference. I saw that pic in a magazine ad, getting it as an email MAY have triggered a different response since I may have perceived it as spam..... I've never gotten email from Schecter but I would imagine most the recipients would have a giddy "ooooooh....new stuff from Schecter" vibe, only to be let down by the resulting ad. If I'd fault Schecter for anything, it's not thinking about that BEFORE they sent email, perhaps they should have just left it as an magazine ad, where emotional expectations are lower.


I stiill have no problem with the content though, actually I think the picture is quite stirring, it's has an almost ...Ansel Adams sorta vibe to it. Peaceful, not like the day at all, which for me makes it a fitting tribute.


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## lailer75 (Sep 12, 2007)

no offense taken here. but every thing is offensive to someone.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 12, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> I tend to say fuck the buildings. Let's remember the people that were murdered. Let's honor the 343 firefighters that died trying to save people.



But they do honor the people. They read out the names of the dead, call for moments of silence, they have all the names on plaques, will be building a new memorial, etc. They show pictures of the towers as it's far easier than trying to show a picture consistent of thousands of faces. They were also famous world round.

And to be honest, I'm from New York born and raised. I'm sorry but I would never think "fuck the buildings". They were more than just buildings. They were an image of New York. It's quite depressing seeing a different skyline after having lived with it's appearance all my life. Not only that but I used to work right down the block and would eat lunch there everyday. I had times where my friend and I would take extra long lunch breaks during the summer and go to the top and chillout. Some people spent years of their lives working there. So, to me and many others they were more than that. I know you didn't mean it like that, I'm just sharing a different view.


Rev.


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## Jeff (Sep 12, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> But they do honor the people. They read out the names of the dead, call for moments of silence, they have all the names on plaques, will be building a new memorial, etc. They show pictures of the towers as it's far easier than trying to show a picture consistent of thousands of faces. They were also famous world round.
> 
> And to be honest, I'm from New York born and raised. I'm sorry but I would never think "fuck the buildings". They were more than just buildings. They were an image of New York. It's quite depressing seeing a different skyline after having lived with it's appearance all my life. Not only that but I used to work right down the block and would eat lunch there everyday. I had times where my friend and I would take extra long lunch breaks during the summer and go to the top and chillout. Some people spent years of their lives working there. So, to me and many others they were more than that. I know you didn't mean it like that, I'm just sharing a different view.
> 
> ...



Well said, Rev. 

About the e-mail thing; I wonder why it's just Schecter and not PRS, Gibson, Fender, etc. There's gotta be something more to it, even though it's obviously been turned into a marketing ploy.


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## Luan (Sep 13, 2007)

I don't understand why the fuck a company that makes guitars sends emails about something that has nothing to do with guitars.


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## Drew (Sep 13, 2007)

Jeff said:


> Well said, Rev.
> 
> About the e-mail thing; I wonder why it's just Schecter and not PRS, Gibson, Fender, etc. There's gotta be something more to it, even though it's obviously been turned into a marketing ploy.



It could be Fender, PRS, and Gibson as well - I'm just pretty sure Chris isn't on their mailing lists.


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## tonyhell (Aug 21, 2008)

Sorry to revive an old thread, but the latest issue of guitar player has an ad like this and it does rub me the wrong way. What's their fucking point? Gee, I forgot all about 911 until Schecter reminded me. Maybe I should switch to Schecter since they're so patriotic. 

It just seems very consistent with how the republicans have tried to use 911 to market themselves. They're obviously trying to capitalize or they would put the ad in the magazine without their brand name.

Ah, I think this is the one I saw:


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## Drew (Aug 21, 2008)

Is that a real Schecter ad? Reason I ask is, not only is it tasteless, and not only are very few metalheads I know Jesus-freaks, the ghraphic design is just piss-poor. I'd have thought that was a photoshop spoof or something if I saw it on the net.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 21, 2008)

That's terrible looking, and intensely lame...


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## DDDorian (Aug 21, 2008)

I think what that ad is trying to say is that Schecter are so fucking METAL that their finishes are made with the tears of Jesus, obtained by kneeing him in the diaphragm while his giant bald eagle bodyguard is surveying the horizon for potential terrorist attacks. Either that or the intern at marketing has been huffing glue under the desk. What a horrible, horrible ad.


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## wes225 (Aug 21, 2008)

it makes me want to buy a schecter.......


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## tonyhell (Aug 21, 2008)

Oh man, I have to stop this before more people take it seriously. That Schecter ad is just a joke. But seriously, I just laughed til I cried that you guys thought it was real. That's fucking funny.


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## DDDorian (Aug 21, 2008)

tonyhell said:


> Oh man, I have to stop this before more people take it seriously. That Schecter ad is just a joke. But seriously, I just laughed til I cried that you guys thought it was real. That's fucking funny.



Well that's the kind of thing I'd expect to see posted in Off Topic, not used to bump a fairly serious year-old thread in P&CE. Benefit of the doubt, I guess.


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## tonyhell (Aug 21, 2008)

It was a serious response... then I decided to go back and add the image.


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## Infused1 (Aug 22, 2008)

Since this is the first time I have seen this, Im going to chime in since I know Mike Ciravollo. This was a seriously heart felt dedicated thing, not some marketing campaign. If you met him, his wife and the other guys working there I think you would understand this ad a little more. They are straight up hard rocking musicians who really take pride in the American Made line they have. They are patriotic, proud to have all of the custom shop parts made here and I think its wrong to judge them because of that ad. They do this every year I believe and I will stick up for them. Mike makes the final decisions on this, and he is a straight forward honest guy who really took 9/11 to the heart. If you knew him, I think you would understand. I dont know his politics either, it was never discussed, but I do believe this was heart felt, and a true tribute to that event.


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## Drew (Aug 22, 2008)

tonyhell said:


> Oh man, I have to stop this before more people take it seriously. That Schecter ad is just a joke. But seriously, I just laughed til I cried that you guys thought it was real. That's fucking funny.



Actually, I DID think it was a hack photoshop job. Furthermore, this isn't the forum for practical jokes. Take a one-day.


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## tonyhell (Aug 23, 2008)

Drew said:


> Actually, I DID think it was a hack photoshop job. Furthermore, this isn't the forum for practical jokes. Take a one-day.



 It wasn't a practical joke, it was just a joke. I didn't think anyone would actually think it was real. I was just making fun of Schecter's magazine ads. So, excuse me for joking.

Maybe you should be a little less trigger happy.


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## eaeolian (Aug 25, 2008)

tonyhell said:


> It wasn't a practical joke, it was just a joke. I didn't think anyone would actually think it was real. I was just making fun of Schecter's magazine ads. So, excuse me for joking.
> 
> Maybe you should be a little less trigger happy.



Maybe you should think about disputing a mod decision here for a week?








Yeah, I think so.


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## Jongpil Yun (Aug 25, 2008)

To be honest, I had to scroll down and look at other people's responses to figure out what I was supposed to be offended about. Then again maybe I'm just oblivious.


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## Drew (Aug 26, 2008)

As this thread is now more than a year old, and the attempt to resurrect it was just a bad idea in the first place, let's close it down.


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