# Drum Machines in Metal



## Blasphemer (Apr 9, 2012)

How does everyone feel about drum machines in metal. Not when an artist/band is using S2.0 or addictive drums, but a very obvious drum machine with no humanization or "soul".

Examples:




Omnil | Facebook


----------



## ZXIIIT (Apr 9, 2012)

I really like how Sleep Terror uses it, it honestly does not matter to me, does not change my perception of that artist.

But I'm not a drummer so...


----------



## The Grief Hole (Apr 9, 2012)

Agoraphobic Nosebleed used a drum machine a lot. But when you play at a billion beats per minute it all sounds the same.


----------



## linchpin (Apr 9, 2012)

As long as it's Humanised i guess its fine because i use it and i make sure it sounds like somebody played it.


----------



## ROAR (Apr 9, 2012)

If somebody wants to use Superior or the like as their creative tool,
who am I to throw out my negative criticism?

If that's the sound they want then more power to em

AnB RULES.


----------



## Cancer (Apr 9, 2012)

Honestly, if I have one "gripe/wish" about drum machines in metal (ie, you're dragging a computer/drum machine onstage with you, and you don't have a human drummer). i "wish" they would use sounds outside of a standard kit. Doesn't make sense to restrict yourself to standard kit sounds if you *KNOW* you're going to be using a machine.

Just my 2 centds.


----------



## ArtDecade (Apr 9, 2012)

Def Lep sure started using a lot of them following Rick Allen's accident. Of course, that kind of triggering isn't quite what you had in mind. Still, drum machines can be used tastefully as they have proved.


----------



## Aftermath1 (Apr 9, 2012)

Sleep Terror is just a one man band by the way so that's why he uses it. I think it's fine for things like that but in a full band setting it adds to the intensity if a drummer is present.


----------



## Blasphemer (Apr 9, 2012)

^ I know what's up with Sleep Terror. Indricothere is a one man project, as well.


----------



## Nonservium (Apr 9, 2012)

If I recall, Mortician used/uses them. If you're into that sort of thing.


----------



## gunshow86de (Apr 9, 2012)

The Grief Hole said:


> Agoraphobic Nosebleed used a drum machine a lot. But when you play at a billion beats per minute it all sounds the same.



Apparently, Scott Hull is the best modern metal drummer.

#1: SCOTT HULL (AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED) | MetalSucks

Troll level over 9000!!!


----------



## Necris (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't mind hearing drum machines without any "humanzation" in a mix. So much of Metal music today has the recorded drum parts quantized and replaced with overcompressed samples that remove any dynmaics that it's becoming hard to tell the difference between a well mixed drum machine and a human performer.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 9, 2012)

I don't care as long as it's produced well and the person who programmed them at least tried to make them sound a bit human. Sometimes programmed drums sit perfectly in the mix and everything, but every hit is so identical it lacks character and gets boring to listen to. That being said, I've heard real drummers that sound absolutely horrible and the production is nasty, so it can go either way. There are good examples and bad examples of both.


----------



## sakeido (Apr 9, 2012)

gunshow86de said:


> Apparently, Scott Hull is the best modern metal drummer.
> 
> #1: SCOTT HULL (AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED) | MetalSucks
> 
> Troll level over 9000!!!



was it though? it was awfully straight faced. they didn't pick someone pick someone who was actually good at programming drums, like Paul Ortiz, and they didn't pick some dumbass grind act who use a cheap ass drum machine either. they picked a middle of the road guy.. I just don't see what point they were trying to make.


----------



## cGoEcYk (Apr 9, 2012)

I saw a live death/black metal band that used some crappy drum machine. It was lame. Those particular guys were more about getting as much glam as possible out of their leather outfits and pointy guitars than actual music.


----------



## MerlinTKD (Apr 9, 2012)

As a drummer, I see plenty of room for both, actually. The last recording I played on, there was one tune I played along with a basic drum machine part, it really freed up what I could do, not having sole responsibility for keeping the tempo! I could really play around with the rhythm and dynamics, laying out and coming back in... it was great fun!

I could see industrial or futuristic-type music utilizing a drum machine as opposed to a human drummer, but the more 'organic' the music, the more organic the drums need to be, which still isn't quite there with drum machines, sequencers, and samplers... but it's getting really close!


----------



## BucketheadRules (Apr 9, 2012)

This might be the right place to ask this - can someone clear up a question I have? Are the really fast double kicks at 0:30 possible for a human being to play, or were they more likely to have been triggered/programmed?



As for the actual use of machines, I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes it's the only way, for one-man projects especially. Although I agree with whoever said that it's weird to limit yourself to conventional drum sounds, why not go a bit mad if you can?


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 9, 2012)

I really like Mortician, the guitarist writes the drums and can actually play what he fakes.

Well, most of it. lol (five limbs on some recordings)


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 9, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> This might be the right place to ask this - can someone clear up a question I have? Are the really fast double kicks at 0:30 possible for a human being to play, or were they more likely to have been triggered/programmed?
> 
> 
> 
> As for the actual use of machines, I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes it's the only way, for one-man projects especially. Although I agree with whoever said that it's weird to limit yourself to conventional drum sounds, why not go a bit mad if you can?




Twitch muscle control and triggers allow of some super human sounding speed with feet.


----------



## Dwellingers (Apr 9, 2012)

Drum machines in metal == gay.


----------



## ChrisRushing (Apr 9, 2012)

We have used them in an electronic context with live drums quite a bit through the last couple of years in our bands. I would typically rather hear a real drummer but sometimes it's all an artist has.
One of my favorite albums is Vintersorg's "Cosmic Genesis". The drums are programmed and not even done in a believable context (there are all kinds of drum fills that hit weird accents and play things that an octopus would have trouble with) but it was what they had to work with when they made the album. I would be a sad panda if they had chose not to create that piece of work for lack of a "real" drummer. 



Dwellingers said:


> Drum machines in metal == gay.



I think there is a similar quote for Bass players who use a pick....im just saying


----------



## Aftermath1 (Apr 9, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> This might be the right place to ask this - can someone clear up a question I have? Are the really fast double kicks at 0:30 possible for a human being to play, or were they more likely to have been triggered/programmed?
> 
> [Vid.]
> 
> As for the actual use of machines, I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes it's the only way, for one-man projects especially. Although I agree with whoever said that it's weird to limit yourself to conventional drum sounds, why not go a bit mad if you can?



Think Vitek used heel-toe method. Just look at pretty much every fast metal drummer if you want to see more. Once the technique is down the speeds are insane.


----------



## Augminished (Apr 9, 2012)

Bottom line how would you feel if you were replaced with a small box that costs $100? 

It doesn't matter as long as it sounds good. When I record I layer the "real drums" with S2.0 and most drummers at first don't like then they here it and are happy with the results. 

If you are going to use "fake drums" why not use S2.0 or even ez drummer. Just doesn't add up to me. Same price and you can program them whichever way. 

The Quad Kick pedal thing to me is a bit annoying. Its like (as said above) a bass player using a pick. It just does not feel right. Music changes and I digress.


----------



## Larrikin666 (Apr 9, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> Are the really fast double kicks at 0:30 possible for a human being to play, or were they more likely to have been triggered/programmed?
> 
> 
> 
> As for the actual use of machines, I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes it's the only way, for one-man projects especially. Although I agree with whoever said that it's weird to limit yourself to conventional drum sounds, why not go a bit mad if you can?




That's not even particularly fast these days. Those are obviously triggered, but Vi actually played that. He was really tight live the two times I got to watch him. 

This...not so real...despite the drummer claiming they are.



Fast forward to about a minute. 


Also, the drums on Necrophagist's Onset of Petrefaction album were programmed. I don't like the samples used, but I like what was put down.


----------



## ChrisRushing (Apr 9, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> This might be the right place to ask this - can someone clear up a question I have? Are the really fast double kicks at 0:30 possible for a human being to play, or were they more likely to have been triggered/programmed?
> 
> 
> 
> As for the actual use of machines, I don't have a problem with it. Sometimes it's the only way, for one-man projects especially. Although I agree with whoever said that it's weird to limit yourself to conventional drum sounds, why not go a bit mad if you can?





Definitely possible. Decapitated are not human in a live setting. I saw them a few years back on a larger Death Metal festival with some big names and they were the tightest/heaviest group in the bunch and they played the cleanest. So much respect for those guys. 
I believe if you youtube, there is a video of a drum chick playing that song in a pair of heels lol.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Apr 9, 2012)

My band uses a drum machine and everything turns out alright


----------



## Demiurge (Apr 9, 2012)

This is almost a companion thread to this one: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...ages-disadvantages-21st-music-technology.html

There are some genres of music where the fans still appreciate the performance-aspect of the music and metal is definitely one of them. Personally, I'm not down on the use of drum machines, but it needs to be done well or creatively otherwise it sounds worse than the worst live drums.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 9, 2012)

I use loop libraries extensively' for writing, arranging, and some end up as keepers, but I still have the intention of having a real drummer lay down professionally recorded tracks because I don't think like a drummer. I have almost the entire Beta Monkey library, and I find that using them helps me convey the attitude that I'm looking for. I'm not opposed to having a real drummer program all the drums for the project either, since I dont have the capacity to record a full kit live right now.

I would just have to export via .omf into their project type since I'm on a PC running Sonar and most other folks are on a Mac with either PT or Logic.


----------



## linchpin (Apr 9, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


>



He was called Vitek for a reason.


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 9, 2012)

Larrikin666 said:


> That's not even particularly fast these days. Those are obviously triggered, but Vi actually played that. He was really tight live the two times I got to watch him.
> 
> This...not so real...despite the drummer claiming they are.
> 
> ...



Some things seem like they are impossible, listen to Hellhammer and how tight he is playing here:



That is what the producer wished the drummer could do, but instead he was stuck there all day filling in squares.


----------



## Nats (Apr 9, 2012)

They're cool on an album I suppose, but for example seeing Genghis Tron live was such a let down because all those cool beats were done by a machine and you couldn't see some drummer going nuts live.


----------



## ChrisRushing (Apr 10, 2012)

Floppystrings said:


> Some things seem like they are impossible, listen to Hellhammer and how tight he is playing here:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what the producer wished the drummer could do, but instead he was stuck there all day filling in squares.




There is some rehearsal footage on the Arcturus live DVD for Ship Wrecked in Oslo. Hellhammer's drumming leaves A LOT to be desired. He is obviously one of the guys abusing the fact that you can double stroke with triggers and have it come out sounding like you are beating the shit out of kit when in reality he is barely touching his drums.


----------



## broj15 (Apr 10, 2012)

i kind of have mixed feelings about the matter. I prefer that music be created by humans, but i also know that alot of my favorite bands use programmed drums in the studio. I can see where it could be benificial in the studio in terms of efficiency (not havong to do multiple takes) and not having to worry about finding that perfect drum tone, since the perfect tone is more than likely already in the computer, but i would feel really let down to see a band live and thier be just a laptop with a pre-recorded beat and no human behind a drum kit.
I also see the benifit of drum machines for alot of "bedroom bands" since it's not always convenient or even possible to record with a real drum kit.
I feel like electric drum kits strike a happy medium IMO. The drummer in the band that i am about to start uses an electric drum kit w/ a drum processor into a PA and it sounds pretty good and is pretty convenient for bedroom recording sessions.
Then again, I'm not a drummer so take my opinions with a grain of salt.


----------



## Bigfan (Apr 10, 2012)

broj15 said:


> i kind of have mixed feelings about the matter. I prefer that music be created by humans.



Who do you think programs drums, then?


----------



## -42- (Apr 10, 2012)

What do I think of drum machines?



Fucking awesome, that's what I think.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Apr 10, 2012)

-42- said:


> What do I think of drum machines?
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking awesome, that's what I think.



This.

+it all depends on what the artist is going for. For bands that want to sound like a 4 piece band, but don't know how to program drums accordingly, it'll sound like shit. Likewise, if Scott Hull had left the drum programming to someone who only knew 4 to the floor type beats it would sound like shit.

Music isn't a contest, or some race where everyone is chasing some measurable goal: there are bands that make drum machines work absolutely PERFECT for what they are going for(Scott Hull's various projects) and bands that use real drums that are amazing, and bands that mix the two depending on the album (Meshuggah anyone?) and end up with marvelous results regardless. It all depends on what the artist is trying to convey/if they at least convey a message that is appealing to people.


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 10, 2012)

ChrisRushing said:


> There is some rehearsal footage on the Arcturus live DVD for Ship Wrecked in Oslo. Hellhammer's drumming leaves A LOT to be desired. He is obviously one of the guys abusing the fact that you can double stroke with triggers and have it come out sounding like you are beating the shit out of kit when in reality he is barely touching his drums.



I respect the timing, technique, and muscle memory it requires to play that accurately, as opposed to someone bashing on their drums and play non-technical and boring fills.

Because both Hellhammer and Pete trigger their kits, and they paved the way for everyone it is officially allowed.

Manny Pacquiao > Tyson


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 10, 2012)

-42- said:


> What do I think of drum machines?
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking awesome, that's what I think.




That drumming reminds me of a human!



I wish I could do drum covers, give me a couple weeks and I will make a request thread haha. You guys can have me try and play everything you think is fake.

I can't play Bleed, don't even ask lol.


----------



## fps (Apr 10, 2012)

I think I hear a lotta music on here with Superior Drummer, sometimes randomly humanized sometimes not, and it loses a lotta points because listening to a good drummer drum, and how the other band members lock into that, is one of the best bits about rock music. How people hear the groove, as in where a hi-hat sits in relation to a kick, pushing a beat or holding it back, rather than where in a 16th note quantization things sit, and how the rest of the players respond to it is so important. 

And yes a lot of real drummers are quantized into oblivion now, but often that sucks too, the last Crowbar record was damn near wrecked by it.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 10, 2012)

Floppystrings said:


> That drumming reminds me of a human!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Was there even a bass player in the second vid?


----------



## Floppystrings (Apr 10, 2012)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Was there even a bass player in the second vid?



Magrudergrind doesn't have a bassist.

Rotten Sound does though! :


----------



## Cancer (Apr 10, 2012)

MerlinTKD said:


> As a drummer, I see plenty of room for both, actually. The last recording I played on, there was one tune I played along with a basic drum machine part, it really freed up what I could do, not having sole responsibility for keeping the tempo! I could really play around with the rhythm and dynamics, laying out and coming back in... it was great fun!!



This... i tried in vain to get my last drummer to do this, and got an earful for the attempt. Reason: he swore it wouldn't go over with a metal crowd....lame, so much for being experimental.


----------



## groph (Apr 10, 2012)

I prefer all members of a metal band to be human, but there's not much you can do if you can't find a drummer and you still want to make music.

Mortician used a drum machine on everything but they have a live album where they have a session drummer - that's the only Mortician I ever listen to because there aren't any 2 minute long samples from horror movies and the music sounds a lot more organic and brutal.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Apr 10, 2012)

A drum machine is never late for practice, wont get drunk and fight someone, will never mess up, and wont try to fuck your girlfriend.

Its the perfect drummer.


----------

