# Neural DSP plugins for practise?



## 70Seven (Apr 17, 2021)

Anyone use neural plugins for practise at home? Do they sound as good as how YouTube reviewers(influencers) make em sound? 

I only play at home. Don’t gig and don’t record. I don’t like to play that loud so my 100 watt tube amp and 2x12 is total overkill. And because I keep the master volume so low it’s probably why I have a hard time finding tones I like from my amp. Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors. 

Any tips? Or did something similar? 

Thanks.


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## Blytheryn (Apr 17, 2021)

I’ve got the Nameless, Cali, Granophyre and Gojira. All you need in addition to any of those is an EQ so you can cut some nasty shit in the 4K range, and you’re good to go. Get some third party IR’s if you’re feeling boujee and you’re set. 

If you get any, get some before the 19th. They’re all like 50% off.


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## xzyryabx (Apr 17, 2021)

I have my kemper in one room and use my mac with neural plugins and a set of monitors in the other. Works more than well enough for a practice setup.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 17, 2021)

You can demo them for free. Give it a try.


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## 70Seven (Apr 17, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You can demo them for free. Give it a try.


 
Yeah I know. But I don’t own an audio interface or monitors. Just asking first before I Order some from Amazon to give those plugins a try.


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## budda (Apr 17, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Yeah I know. But I don’t own an audio interface or monitors. Just asking first before I Order some from Amazon to give those plugins a try.



Order and find out. You can use monitors and an interface regardless of whether or not these plugins work for you .


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## 4Eyes (Apr 17, 2021)

I'm making my transition to "in the box", sold my amp, cab and pedals after testing and comparing Neural DSP plugins side by side with my rig


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## makecamera (Apr 17, 2021)

They're fine for practice. Personally, I don't find them to _feel _as good as an amp or my FM3. Perhaps I need a better interface or DI box.

If you play a variety of music, I find them limiting, unless you buy several plugins, so you can have a variety of amps, pedals, and effects.

Either way, I'd recommend some 8" studio monitors for that satisfying low end thump when you play.


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 17, 2021)

My default answer here: FM3 into tube amp return. Super simple to control volume. There are tons of good presets out of the box too so you could just plug it in and be off and running. 

Another good option as mentioned above: get an interface and monitors (Amazon ain’t bad and has easy returns) then try some of those free trials from NDSP. Also check out Keyan Houshmand’s channel. He has quite a few videos on free plugins.


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## budda (Apr 17, 2021)

I mean ask local to price match but other then that yeah.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 17, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Yeah I know. But I don’t own an audio interface or monitors. Just asking first before I Order some from Amazon to give those plugins a try.



Like @budda said, it's nice to have an interface and monitors aren't bad to have around either. 

Once you have those, even if you hate the NDSP stuff, there is a whole world of plugins to try.


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## narad (Apr 17, 2021)

Quite frankly, there's enough to try out that you can bounce almost endlessly from free trial to free trial, and if you ever actually ran out you could just register a different email. My gf's on her 4th or 5th NDSP trial and still hasn't found anything better than those $45 vox plugs, but her total cost on the stuff for basically three months of trials has just been $125 for the interface. 

It's kind of at the point where if I had to do a business trip or something for 2 weeks I'd just take that along and grab a free trial, and use the stuff around my house when I'm here, which is kind of cool until a totally free option surfaces.


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## SamSam (Apr 17, 2021)

For learning songs or guitar pro tabs the NDSP plugins are my go to.

I own the QC and FM3 but I still find plenty of use for the plugins outside of recording.


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## budda (Apr 17, 2021)

There's also a whole thread here on free plugins.


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## X1X (Apr 17, 2021)

narad said:


> if you ever actually ran out you could just register a different email.



This won't work, unfortunately. ILok detects some sort of a hardware ID of the computer. You need to change hardware (in addition to having another email) to register the same plugin again.


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## Matt08642 (Apr 17, 2021)

I recently tried the NDSP Granophyre, Nameless, and SLO100. The initial thing I noticed using all 3 with their stock IRs is the stupid amount of gain even without an overdrive on. Keep this in mind if you don't want balls to the wall gain it might be kind of hard to dial in unless you get a plugin with clean/crunch amps included like Plini or Nolly

My current favorite is the NDSP Granophyre using my actual TS9 pedal or a free TS plugin like the TSE808 (Rather than the built-in Earthquaker OD) and some OwnHammer IRs that just sound better to my ears.


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## narad (Apr 17, 2021)

budda said:


> There's also a whole thread here on free plugins.



Booo! Influencers don't use those!!!



X1X said:


> This won't work, unfortunately. ILok detects some sort of a hardware ID of the computer. You need to change hardware (in addition to having another email) to register the same plugin again.



Ah I thought it was based on MAC which is easy to spoof.


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## X1X (Apr 17, 2021)

narad said:


> Ah I thought it was based on MAC which is easy to spoof.



Maybe you can try that, I never looked that deeply into the issue.


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## Emperoff (Apr 17, 2021)

Yes, Neural DSP plugins sound really good. Way better than Helix to me. They're not on par with Fractal stuff, but as you can guess you can get them much cheaper.

Since you already have your thoughts pretty clear...

1.- Buy an audio interface. Always a good investment.
2.- Buy a pair of 5" monitors. Usually the best size for home. You can get bigger ones if your room is very large.
3.- Enjoy the convenience of the digital world at home.

A great advantage of going this route is that you can also use this setup for your everyday music or computer usage. If you don't like to play loud, you will never get those 12" speakers to move anyway.

Then you can add any plugins, modellers or preamps to your interface. If buying something like an Axe FM3 you could skip the audio interface (although I don't know how it behaves as a full audio driver for your computer).

Obviously, if you're going the "in the box" route, I would suggest to get decent stuff. A 150$ interface with a 150$ pair of monitors won't give astonishing results. Set yourself a budget and maybe we can recommend you some stuff.


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## budda (Apr 17, 2021)

I like my $150 monitors


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## Emperoff (Apr 17, 2021)

budda said:


> I like my $150 monitors


I did, until I upgraded to an Audient ID22 with a pair of Neumann KH120A... The audio quality difference was as massive as the price one 

People spend small fortunes on amps they play maybe 1-2 times a week. But audio interfaces and monitors that get used everyday? Fuck that!


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## budda (Apr 17, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I did, until I upgraded to an Audient ID22 with a pair of Neumann KH120A... The audio quality difference was as massive as the price one
> 
> People spend small fortunes on amps they play maybe 1-2 times a week. But audio interfaces and monitors that get used everyday? Fuck no. Just the cheapest one



Oh I barely ever get to use the monitors these days, but my headphones are plugged into their aux jack


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## Blytheryn (Apr 17, 2021)

I’ll say that the Granophyre is such a fun amp to play through.


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## darkinners (Apr 17, 2021)

I have all of them and yeah they are great, especially the newer ones like Gojira and SLO. Don't know what Neural did but both Gojira and SLO sound crazy good even at the default setting.


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## sevenfoxes (Apr 17, 2021)

They’re definitely good enough for practice, but if all you’re interested in doing is practicing, then buy a digital or solid state practice amp. I wouldn’t recommend plugins for that.

Btw, a lot of what you’re hearing in YouTube demos is a polished mix with double or quad tracking, so these plugins aren’t going to sound as good as that outta the box.

You’ll also need decent headphones or monitors to get anything good sounding.

Seriously, just go with a practice amp. I recently picked up a Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 and it’s great for lower volume playing.


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## profwoot (Apr 17, 2021)

I've been doing a 5150 shootout the last couple days, using the same boost and IR in each case. Here's what I've found:

The 5153 in Archetype Gojira is indistinguishable in every way from the one in STL Andy James. That comparison is what started this, as I was curious about how far the tech has come in two years. Apparently not very.

I tend to prefer the 5150 over the 5153, and this shootout has confirmed that for me. I compared the 5150 models in Archetype Nolly, STL AJ, and STL Will Putney. Nolly and AJ sound very similar, but Nolly has some extra low end (apparently reflecting a mod on Nolly's 5150), while Will Putney's has some weird glitchy fuzz thing going on that presumably wasn't intended. I think I prefer the STL AJ of the 3.

It's also notable that all the STL amps are switchable between EL34s, 6L6s, and KT88s, with the VH4 offering KT77s as well. NDSP lacks this functionality entirely.

I love the VH4 and Uberschall in the Putney plugin, although after all this I think the Fortin Cali will still be my main go-to. 

I find it odd that STL gets mentioned so rarely. NDSP makes great stuff but it's really not any better than STL. STL should really get on the influencer bandwagon, since it seems that's what it takes to get any word-of-mouth going these days.


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## 70Seven (Apr 17, 2021)

Thanks for all the replies. Really giving me a good idea of my options. I might just get two Yamaha hs5 and a Scarlett audio interface. Not the best to start out with but it would be just to try out these plugins. I can always return the speakers and get 8 inches if I find 5 not to be enough(that’s what she said). 

I played with my amp all day. Twisting those knobs and I can’t find a setting I like. Been feeling like this for a few weeks. Think the amp has to go. No need keeping it if I’m not happy with it. I’m practising less and spending my time trying to find a tone. Don’t like this.


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## Millul (Apr 17, 2021)

I just bought the NDSP Gojira plugin, given the discount, and it being one of the most versatile suites (3 amps, several types of effects, etc). 
The SLO one sounds great to me, and so does the Plini one - lots of options.


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## Emperoff (Apr 17, 2021)

profwoot said:


> I find it odd that STL gets mentioned so rarely. NDSP makes great stuff but it's really not any better than STL. STL should really get on the influencer bandwagon, since it seems that's what it takes to get any word-of-mouth going these days.



Because they are priced similarly, but they lack a strong Youtube marketing to put the product out. The names behind their plugins are not as strong either. 

So all things being equal, people will get the tried and true option.


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 17, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I recently tried the NDSP Granophyre, Nameless, and SLO100. The initial thing I noticed using all 3 with their stock IRs is the stupid amount of gain even without an overdrive on. Keep this in mind if you don't want balls to the wall gain it might be kind of hard to dial in unless you get a plugin with clean/crunch amps included like Plini or Nolly
> 
> My current favorite is the NDSP Granophyre using my actual TS9 pedal or a free TS plugin like the TSE808 (Rather than the built-in Earthquaker OD) and some OwnHammer IRs that just sound better to my ears.



Cali would probably be my favorite if it had delay amd reverb (I tend to use them in standalone mode). As it is though Plini is still my favorite, Nolly is a close second, and SLO is pretty good too. I shouldn’t have bought the SLO though. I’m almost exclusively using the FM3 these days.


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 17, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> They’re definitely good enough for practice, but if all you’re interested in doing is practicing, then buy a digital or solid state practice amp. I wouldn’t recommend plugins for that.
> 
> Btw, a lot of what you’re hearing in YouTube demos is a polished mix with double or quad tracking, so these plugins aren’t going to sound as good as that outta the box.
> 
> ...



Vypyr Tube 60 is so good. Still the best “practice” amp I’ve tried. The amp models are pretty damn good. And did you know the effects were done by Damage Control (aka Strymon)?


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## Kyle Jordan (Apr 17, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Vypyr Tube 60 is so good. Still the best “practice” amp I’ve tried. The amp models are pretty damn good. And did you know the effects were done by Damage Control (aka Strymon)?



Before I got my Axe, my little Vypyr 30 was the only actual amp I’ve owned for the past three years. It’s actually the amp I’ve owned the longest. Outlasting Mesa Marks, Rectifiers, Bogners, and others.

Once I stopped playing out, that little amp just worked really well. Hard to beat for $300.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 17, 2021)

A small modeling practice amp would definitely be a great option if OP doesn't feel like diving into the world of "computer-as-guitar-rig". 

Tons of great stuff out there, for not a lot of money. The already mentioned Vypyr comes to mind, as well as Yamaha THR, BOSS Katana, and even Line 6 Spiders are pretty damn good these days.


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## sevenfoxes (Apr 17, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Vypyr Tube 60 is so good. Still the best “practice” amp I’ve tried. The amp models are pretty damn good. And did you know the effects were done by Damage Control (aka Strymon)?


Whaaaat?! I had no clue! Makes sense why I like the fx so much, lol! 

And yeah, the amp is crazy good for what it is.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 18, 2021)

The Vypyr is underrated AF. Peavey's Transtube SS gear is killer and I believe they use that special sauce in the Vypyr alongside some digital wizardry.


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 18, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Vypyr is underrated AF. Peavey's Transtube SS gear is killer and I believe they use that special sauce in the Vypyr alongside some digital wizardry.



Was the Vypyr VIP line (or whatever it was that came after they stopped making the tube 60 and 120) as good? I never tried those because I felt like the Tube 60 was significantly better than the (non-tube) 75.

There was a time when damn near every “which amp” thread on UG had rec’s for the Vypyr 60. I had the 60 for a long time and eventually sold it. The only thing I wished it had was an FX loop because while the onboard effects are really good, I often like to run dual delays and it only had the one. Edit: it’s also pretty ugly lol. 

A friend has a 120 and Every now and then I consider reaching out and seeing if he wants to sell it to me lol.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 18, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Was the Vypyr VIP line (or whatever it was that came after they stopped making the tube 60 and 120) as good? I never tried those because I felt like the Tube 60 was significantly better than the (non-tube) 75.
> 
> There was a time when damn near every “which amp” thread on UG had rec’s for the Vypyr 60. I had the 60 for a long time and eventually sold it. The only thing I wished it had was an FX loop because while the onboard effects are really good, I often like to run dual delays and it only had the one. Edit: it’s also pretty ugly lol.
> 
> A friend has a 120 and Every now and then I consider reaching out and seeing if he wants to sell it to me lol.



I never got a chance to compare any of the previous versions, but I really dug the VIP2 I tried FWIW. If I didn't have my POD Go I'd def consider getting one as a practice amp.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 18, 2021)




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## Turd Ferguson (Apr 18, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Anyone use neural plugins for practise at home? Do they sound as good as how YouTube reviewers(influencers) make em sound?
> 
> I only play at home. Don’t gig and don’t record. I don’t like to play that loud so my 100 watt tube amp and 2x12 is total overkill. And because I keep the master volume so low it’s probably why I have a hard time finding tones I like from my amp. Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors.
> 
> ...



You have a tube amp and a 2x12, I'd say all you need are an interface and free amp sims.

For several years, my home rig was Line 6 interface -> effect/amp VSTs -> tube power amp -> real cabinet.

Sounded awesome. Favorite amp sim was Legion (free). Used a program called Chainer to load/arrange the VSTs. Made it possible to save "patches" of any combination of amps/fx.

Using a tube power and a real cabinet (in my case, also a 2x12) kept if feeling "real."


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## Turd Ferguson (Apr 18, 2021)

Forgot to mention:

Everything I used (except for the Pod Farm stuff that came with the interface) was free. ODs, amps, FX, all of it free.


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## mongey (Apr 18, 2021)

FWIW

I just use bias fx for my direct plugging in messing about if I cant be assed hooking up my amp to my torpedo live

everyone rags on it but for what it is, but it sounds plenty good enough to me


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## BMFan30 (Apr 19, 2021)

budda said:


> There's also a whole thread here on free plugins.


Could you please post that thread? I did a search on here but only turned up 2 pages of outdated stuff.


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## budda (Apr 19, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> Could you please post that thread? I did a search on here but only turned up 2 pages of outdated stuff.



https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/the-free-irs-amp-sims-and-boosts-post.345857/


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## BMFan30 (Apr 19, 2021)

budda said:


> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/the-free-irs-amp-sims-and-boosts-post.345857/


Oh yeah I know about that thread, one of my favorites of all the internet! Sorry I thought there was another one, I was searching for "free vst's" so no wonder this thread didn't come up.


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## Un1corn (Apr 20, 2021)

Yes, they are very good amp sims and sounds excellent
HOWEVER
That does mean you could practice with them. They are perfect for mixing and full production, but when comes down to actually practice with your hands, they are far from real amps. This is a common issue with simulation, while they have great sound, but they don't react like a real amp. This will affect a lot to your dynamic, where you practice to pick hard or light. On a real tube amp, you always find obvious and natural dynamic if you pick a note at different force, this is where you need to have precise control on your hands, ultimately to get a good guitar DI.


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## Huzee (Apr 20, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Anyone use neural plugins for practise at home? Do they sound as good as how YouTube reviewers(influencers) make em sound?
> 
> I only play at home. Don’t gig and don’t record. I don’t like to play that loud so my 100 watt tube amp and 2x12 is total overkill. And because I keep the master volume so low it’s probably why I have a hard time finding tones I like from my amp. Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors.
> 
> ...



Tube amp snob here... have tried Strymon Iridium, Amplitube, BiasFX etc. through my Focusrite Scarlett Gen 3 & KRK Rockit 5’s w/10” KRK Sub. Never liked the sound ... until recently trying Neural Plug Ins ... totally blown away with how great they sound. 

Highly recommend them for playing & practice. Once you get used to playing with fully effected sound through monitors - it’s awesome! The ability to get so many great tones for so cheap is a crazy thing. I highly recommend the Gojira plug in as a first step. 

Neural plug ins are 50% right now but sale ends in a day or so.


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## TomRaw (Apr 20, 2021)

Huzee said:


> Tube amp snob here... have tried Strymon Iridium, Amplitube, BiasFX etc. through my Focusrite Scarlett Gen 3 & KRK Rockit 5’s w/10” KRK Sub. Never liked the sound ... until recently trying Neural Plug Ins ... totally blown away with how great they sound.
> 
> Highly recommend them for playing & practice. Once you get used to playing with fully effected sound through monitors - it’s awesome! The ability to get so many great tones for so cheap is a crazy thing. I highly recommend the Gojira plug in as a first step.
> 
> Neural plug ins are 50% right now but sale ends in a day or so.



Sale's over now. I agree though. I spent a ton on Bias and upgrades and always found myself trying to get "the right" tone.

Then I heard about the Neural 50% blowout and grabbed a few plugins. While I was trialing them though, both Fortin Cali and Nameless had better tone on launching the app then my Bias patches I'd worked on for at least a couple of hours. Neural has this extra warmth that really emulates that tube sound quite well to my ears.


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## jgaul79 (Apr 20, 2021)

I am new to all of the digital plug-ins as well. I am also looking into this method, but I spend most of my "free" time in hotels when I'm not working. I don't want to bring a whole bunch of gear with me to practice and I've been wanting to go down this path. 

One question I have is, do you need a DAW to get these plug-ins to work?


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## Blytheryn (Apr 20, 2021)

jgaul79 said:


> I am new to all of the digital plug-ins as well. I am also looking into this method, but I spend most of my "free" time in hotels when I'm not working. I don't want to bring a whole bunch of gear with me to practice and I've been wanting to go down this path.
> 
> One question I have is, do you need a DAW to get these plug-ins to work?



No. Only for tracking. They have a stand-alone app. You just need an interface.


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## nistley (Apr 20, 2021)

I’m surprised nobody mentioned the lag. I have a good interface, but with minimum 8ms latency, I haven’t been able to like any plugin, PC or Mac that feels as good as AxeFx or my amp. Especially with fast runs, I have no idea what’s going on if I try to listen to the laggy sim. Thank god for trials, definitely try before you buy.


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## Blytheryn (Apr 20, 2021)

nistley said:


> I’m surprised nobody mentioned the lag. I have a good interface, but with minimum 8ms latency, I haven’t been able to like any plugin, PC or Mac that feels as good as AxeFx or my amp. Especially with fast runs, I have no idea what’s going on if I try to listen to the laggy sim. Thank god for trials, definitely try before you buy.



Depends on your interface and settings. I think I have something like 3.7


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## Emperoff (Apr 20, 2021)

nistley said:


> I’m surprised nobody mentioned the lag. I have a good interface, but with minimum 8ms latency, I haven’t been able to like any plugin, PC or Mac that feels as good as AxeFx or my amp. Especially with fast runs, I have no idea what’s going on if I try to listen to the laggy sim. Thank god for trials, definitely try before you buy.


8ms is not that low. IIRC, I have a RTL under 5ms.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Apr 20, 2021)

narad said:


> Quite frankly, there's enough to try out that you can bounce almost endlessly from free trial to free trial, and if you ever actually ran out you could just register a different email. My gf's on her 4th or 5th NDSP trial and still hasn't found anything better than those $45 vox plugs, but her total cost on the stuff for basically three months of trials has just been $125 for the interface.
> 
> It's kind of at the point where if I had to do a business trip or something for 2 weeks I'd just take that along and grab a free trial, and use the stuff around my house when I'm here, which is kind of cool until a totally free option surfaces.


Please do explain why it is so important to you not to pay for peoples efforts? With your line of thinking don't expect anything to ever get developed again.


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## narad (Apr 20, 2021)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Please do explain why it is so important to you not to pay for peoples efforts? With your line of thinking don't expect anything to ever get developed again.



I bought Nameless for $100 and I don't even particularly like it so preach elsewhere.


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## Bassman1 (Apr 20, 2021)

I just got the Molly and Gojira plugins during their sale... Super happy with them so far for practicing. They sounds very good and between the two provide lots of versatility for recording as well. 

They have gates and tuners built in as well. So, it's really a perfect travel practice tool.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Apr 20, 2021)

narad said:


> I bought Nameless for $100 and I don't even particularly like it so preach elsewhere.


You bought something you were allowed to try for two weeks and because you changed your mind it's alright to steal everything else? I'm not preaching, I just think even you can do better!


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## narad (Apr 20, 2021)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> You bought something you were allowed to try for two weeks and because you changed your mind it's alright to steal everything else? I'm not preaching, I just think even you can do better!



You are preaching and since I'm not even using the plugins, free or trial or bought or otherwise, you are most certainly preaching to the wrong person.


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## Amer Alameddine (Apr 20, 2021)

I tried both the Nolly one and the Gojira, and they sound pretty great. Having said that, the presets didn't sound good on my end, but that is understandable since the players who made them play differently, and have different guitar/pickup combinations, so it probably sounded as it should in their hands. With a few adjustments, I was able to get some of the presets to work great for me. However, I didn't end up purchasing either of those plugins, I still use the Mercuriall U530, I just got more used to it and I'm happier with the sounds I got of it.


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## ATRguitar91 (Apr 20, 2021)

I've yet to try a Neural plugin, but I used free sims for years and had no complaints at all; excellent options for getting setup on a budget. The Amplex stuff in particular is really good, as well as the Ignite Emissary. Pair that with a free IR and overdrive and you're well on your way to good tones.

My only issue with VSTs is that you're tied to firing up a computer, which is the main appeal of a hardware modeller to me. I don't always need my pc on when I'm riffing around, so not needing to use it is a big plus for me.


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## Emperoff (Apr 20, 2021)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> You bought something you were allowed to try for two weeks and because you changed your mind it's alright to steal everything else? I'm not preaching, I just think even you can do better!


"_steal?_"

Stealing a trial version? Are you serious?


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## TomRaw (Apr 20, 2021)

nistley said:


> I _don't_ have a good interface, but with minimum 8ms latency


Fixed that for you


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## sighval (Apr 20, 2021)

Dang. I sport a rather low-end interface, UMC204HD by Behringer (which I find to very quite nice BTW). That goes into a 2012 iMac (intel i5 2.7 GHz, RAM recently upped to 16 GB), so nothing too fancy. Latency is a non-issue, as it's around 2.9 ms for me, standalone or via DAW (Logic).

I've bought the Cory Wong some time ago and I couldn't be happier TBH. I know it's not the most popular choice and it's the odd one in the family, but it sound great for my needs. Different flavours of cleans, edge of breakup tones, low to mid gains, sweet, sweet leads, with the two overdrives and EQ it can be pushed to do some heavier stuff quite well too. A wah (with an autowah), an envelope filter (which is reeeally dope), a very nice warm dual delay and a GREAT reverb... all in all I think this one doesn't get enough credit.


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## dspellman (Apr 20, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors.
> 
> Any tips? Or did something similar?


I've long since gone to modelers into studio monitors at home. Working with software and computers didn't make sense to me because I *was* taking things out live, and working with a modeler that already had all the I/O I needed was a whole helluva lot cheaper than submitting my computer to the dangers of playing out.


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## Matt08642 (Apr 20, 2021)

Are we talking roundtrip latency or input?




Motu M4 was the best purchase I've made in terms of using VSTs, came from my POD X3 which was like 40ms input latency alone or something horrible


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## Williams (Apr 20, 2021)

Keep your amp and get an attenuator. I use the Two Notes Reload but there are many available (Freyette is best?). I can play in the middle of the night and not disturb my neighbor. I also built an MDF iso-box so I can push the speakers more at low volume. It is heavy and large but easy to build. Mine accommodates a 4x12. Yours can be smaller since you have a 2x12. I also have an Axe-FX III. The new generation firmware is really good and the continually release FW updates that audible improve the sound and feel. I haven't tried Neural. I mostly use tube amps for recording. Usually DI'd through a Radial J48 and reamped with Reload. I sometimes use tones from the Axe-FX. I rarely use plugins but sometimes. I'll never take a tube amp to a gig again. I use Axe-FX with FCB1010 and Mission Engineering Gemini II.

In 2000 I made the worst decision ever in my music "career". I sold my tube amp (Mesa-Boogie Dual Rec w/ Marshall 1960B) for a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 for the same reasons you called out. It took me twenty years (of shit recordings) to go full circle and get back to tube amps. Digital solutions are vastly better nowadays but tube amps are still slightly superior generally. Either road can get you there.

There are a ton of amp sim plugins that are good if all you are doing is practicing. Some are even free.

I don't know your budget by Adam A7X are generally considered a sweet spot for high quality bang for buck (note Pete Thorn has a pair for example).


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## guitar_player4_2_0 (Apr 20, 2021)

I’ve recently jumped on the bandwagon. I picked up a Scarlett solo interface and the cheapo presonus $100 monitors, although mine were like $130 because they have Bluetooth. Grabbed the Gojira on sale this weekend after doing the demo a few months ago. Had been jumping from trial to trial on the Neural plugins ever since. It’s not the same as a tube amp, but that’s not what I was expecting. All the neural stuff sounds absolutely amazing. Maybe we’re all a bit spoiled now, but I remember the Pods and V amps of yesteryear and the stuff that’s coming out now continually blows me away. The default patches even sound good. I picked up a midi controller so I can do on the fly switching and use the effects in real time. To me it’s like being able to plug into Joe Duplantier’s rig any time I want for $80, play for as long as I want and record with it too. That’s crazy. Even the SLO for $100 is a good deal to me. When you consider the amps they simulate are thousands of dollars and very hard to come by, it starts to seem more practical. The artist suite ones all have some pretty handy effects even if a lot of them have similar amps. I’m definitely curious to try some other plugins based off of my experience with Neural DSP, especially after some of the comments on here. Also I should add I’m using a 2009 MacBook with a core 2 duo processor and I’m getting latency under 5ms depending on settings with no glitches or pops. I do have ram upgraded to 16gb, but still it’s a 12 year old laptop and it runs all the stuff just fine.


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## 4Eyes (Apr 21, 2021)

I'm just wondering - people who don't find modern amp sims "realistic" enough - could you elaborate on what's wrong with them for you?

I'm coming from tube amp into reactive load with IR loader kind of rig. I have compared my real rig vs Neural SLO and Nolly (into the same virtual cab). only thing I had to do was adjust inputs on plugins so the amp models behaved in similar way like my real tube amp. I didn't use any of the presets, turned off unnecessary blocks in the plugins and created sounds from scratch, like I would do with real amp and pedals in front. but after that, the only major difference I've found is that I don't have physical amp and I have to fiddle with knobs on the screen. They don't lack dynamics, clean sounds break up nicely like on a nice tube amp clean channel, crunch sounds (I mean Plexi/800 territory) cuts off nicely with juicy chug on palm mutes and they clean very well with volume pot on guitar, too. mid gain tones sustain, just like on cranked tube amp - and for me mid crunch tones were always weak point of amps sims, I don't play them a lot, but that was my sort of benchmark for good/realistic amps sim compared to behaviour of a real tube amp. High gain tones were good for couple of years, now. but with improvements done overall to the modelling technology, that brought realistic clean and mid gain tones, high gains got even better, too. I'm able to clean up high gain tone on slo/5150 model with TS in front, just by coil splitting my PAF style neck and rolling of the volume, just like I'm able on that sort of tube amp (but I have to admit that having high output bridge pickup helps this kind of setup). sounds react to picking hand and you have to dig the good chug out of the amp sim, just like on real tube amp.

I don't want to play advocate for amp sims, I'm curious what I've missed in my observation and in comparing tube amp to the same sort of amp model.


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## Emperoff (Apr 21, 2021)

Round trip latency is the only figure that matters. Learn how to test it to find out how the interface really fares.


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## DoctorStoner (Apr 21, 2021)

We're probably way beyond helping @70Seven out, but:

1) Amplitube 5 Max w/ Axe I/O interface - unlimited awesome sounds and a great interface for $400 (my current rig)
2) Fender Mustang - Under $100 used for the lower models and I used this as a recording rig for years. When connected on USB there are a ton of settings you cant get through the settings on the amp itself. Go 12" if you want it to be good for anything but practice.
All guitars through Mustang I: 

3) Zoom MS-50G. Sounds silly but its a reasonably good way to get a lot of sounds for cheap.
Guitars and bass through MS-50G:


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## 70Seven (Apr 22, 2021)

Thanks for all the suggestion. I’ve been reading this thread every time there was a new reply. 

in the end I’m keeping my amp. Not selling it. Spent some time with it and I must have been having a bad weekend and it all sounded bad to me. It’s really not bad at all. 

but I also got a scarlet interface and two studio monitors. Both are arriving tomorrow. I’ll still try the neural stuff. More options, more sounds. So I’ll see how it goes. I’ll try a few out but by listening to the demos I’m thinking either the soldano or the plini. But I’ll try a bunch first. 

I’ll post my first reaction to the neural tomorrow night. That’s probably when I’ll get the chance to set all it up.


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## torchlord (Apr 24, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> They’re definitely good enough for practice, but if all you’re interested in doing is practicing, then buy a digital or solid-state practice amp. I wouldn’t recommend plugins for that.
> 
> Btw, a lot of what you’re hearing in YouTube demos is a polished mix with double or quad tracking, so these plugins aren’t going to sound as good as that out the box.
> 
> ...



I think the Peavey Vyper stuff is pretty underrated. I bought the small 100 dollars one and I thought it was pretty nice right out of the gate. I also bought a Katana 100 later on and had to fuck around with it for a year and a half to get the sounds I was looking for. 

The one thing I don't care for with regards to plugins is when you want to get your guitar and play, you have to wait till your PC is on, then load your daw, which to me just am not a fan of. I'd rather have it on right now.

I still don't think much anything is going to beat a tube amp experience and if you want a lower volume practice with some versatility, i would get a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, Captor X, Live or something in that ballpark. There are some cheaper variations out with regards to load boxes, but the virtual IR mics in the Wall Of Sound Plugins pretty good. With going that route you know you have a great amp tone you like so there is no second-guessing because it is real.


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## budda (Apr 24, 2021)

Just find what works for you . For me, that is a leading digital preamp.


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## torchlord (Apr 24, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Thanks for all the suggestion. I’ve been reading this thread every time there was a new reply.
> 
> in the end I’m keeping my amp. Not selling it. Spent some time with it and I must have been having a bad weekend and it all sounded bad to me. It’s really not bad at all.
> 
> ...



Don't forget there are worlds of tones you can do with a tube amp, because preamp tubes and speakers can be changed out, and swapping them does change your tone drastically. I find with preamp tubes it's better to mix brands like say combining JJ's with some Tad's to get the more drastic tonal changes, but this is slightly costly going down speakers and tube swapping. There are video's online that prove the amp portion doesn't make nearly as much difference sonically as changing your speaker to a different one.


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## torchlord (Apr 24, 2021)

Un1corn said:


> Yes, they are very good amp sims and sounds excellent
> HOWEVER
> That does mean you could practice with them. They are perfect for mixing and full production, but when comes down to actually practice with your hands, they are far from real amps. This is a common issue with simulation, while they have great sound, but they don't react like a real amp. This will affect a lot to your dynamic, where you practice to pick hard or light. On a real tube amp, you always find obvious and natural dynamic if you pick a note at different force, this is where you need to have precise control on your hands, ultimately to get a good guitar DI.



I totally agree, if you want to be sad with your sound just play something non-tube with a guy that has a really good tube amp and guitar mix in practice.


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## budda (Apr 24, 2021)

torchlord said:


> I totally agree, if you want to be sad with your sound just play something non-tube with a guy that has a really good tube amp and guitar mix in practice.



I mean, no, but continue.


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## torchlord (Apr 24, 2021)

Williams said:


> Keep your amp and get an attenuator. I use the Two Notes Reload but there are many available (Freyette is best?). I can play in the middle of the night and not disturb my neighbor. I also built an MDF iso-box so I can push the speakers more at low volume. It is heavy and large but easy to build. Mine accommodates a 4x12. Yours can be smaller since you have a 2x12. I also have an Axe-FX III. The new generation firmware is really good and the continually release FW updates that audible improve the sound and feel. I haven't tried Neural. I mostly use tube amps for recording. Usually DI'd through a Radial J48 and reamped with Reload. I sometimes use tones from the Axe-FX. I rarely use plugins but sometimes. I'll never take a tube amp to a gig again. I use Axe-FX with FCB1010 and Mission Engineering Gemini II.
> 
> In 2000 I made the worst decision ever in my music "career". I sold my tube amp (Mesa-Boogie Dual Rec w/ Marshall 1960B) for a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 for the same reasons you called out. It took me twenty years (of shit recordings) to go full circle and get back to tube amps. Digital solutions are vastly better nowadays but tube amps are still slightly superior generally. Either road can get you there.
> 
> ...


 
I have a Reload as well, is there a particular reason you are not using the DI out from the Reload?


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## 4Eyes (Apr 24, 2021)

torchlord said:


> The one thing I don't care for with regards to plugins is when you want to get your guitar and play, you have to wait till your PC is on, then load your daw, which to me just am not a fan of. I'd rather have it on right now.


This argument from y2k era keeps popping up still even in 2020s. And I really don't get it why people are still using it. Modern PCs/Macs with SSDs are user ready in about 10-15sec (full boot, even less when in hybernate/sleep mode), loading up practice project in DAW with amp sims and practice songs, less than that (and you can still put your computer to hibernate state with your project opened - so it's ready to play in about 10 seconds or even less).

Picking up guitar, cleaning strings, putting it on, plugging in cable(s), finding a pick, that's still suitable for playing, check if guitar is still in tune, finding a pick I dropped..it takes much more time to make my guitar ready, than it took computer with DAW to be ready to rock...and this process is basically the same no matter if I plugged to my amp or to the interface..

Hell...I'm not fast enough to even sit in the chair from hitting the power button on my PC till logon screen shows up 

Use whatever suits you the best and you enjoy to play through, but please don't say that booting a computer and loading up a project is hassle big enough to keep you away from using plugins, that's just plain  (I mean generally speaking, not you exactly - I see lot of people using this argument and it drives me crazy)


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## Matt08642 (Apr 24, 2021)

4Eyes said:


> This argument from y2k era keeps popping up still even in 2020s. And I really don't get it why people are still using it. Modern PCs/Macs with SSDs are user ready in about 10-15sec (full boot, even less when in hybernate/sleep mode), loading up practice project in DAW with amp sims and practice songs, less than that (and you can still put your computer to hibernate state with your project opened - so it's ready to play in about 10 seconds or even less).
> 
> Picking up guitar, cleaning strings, putting it on, plugging in cable(s), finding a pick, that's still suitable for playing, check if guitar is still in tune, finding a pick I dropped..it takes much more time to make my guitar ready, than it took computer with DAW to be ready to rock...and this process is basically the same no matter if I plugged to my amp or to the interface..
> 
> ...



The only time my PC even reboots is for updates, my average uptime is like 14-20 days and my DAW is literally always open with the master out muted so it actually takes less time than if I waited for my tube amp to warm up on standby.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Apr 24, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> The only time my PC even reboots is for updates, my average uptime is like 14-20 days and my DAW is literally always open with the master out muted so it actually takes less time than if I waited for my tube amp to warm up on standby.



I count at least 3 common points of contention in this post, and I love it.


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## t1337Dude (Apr 28, 2021)

Huge fan of Neural DSP plugins. I have: Gojira, Plini, Nolly, NST, Abasi, Cali, and Omega. I pipe my guitar through a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen, add the VST's to FL Studio to combine everything I like between the plugins, and listen through customized Philharmonic BMR speakers ($2,395/pr). As you might guess I'm a metalhead to I appreciate their catering to a variety of metal tones. The inclusion of presets from Ihsahn on the Gojira plugin made me very happy. There's a giant selection of presets in this iteration so I believe there's something for everyone. It's so easy to pick a preset, pick a favorite IR, and EQ it to adapt it to your mix. So far the I feel the Gojira plugin has raised the bar for them in terms of value, versatility, and overall quality of tone. The MIDI-controllable pedals is a fantastic touch and hopefully a regular inclusion in future Archetypes. On the downside, the plugins are pricey and some offer very little versatility (e.g. Omega, Cali, or NST). The Cali is a great plugin but really shines if you can add some reverb from the Plini, for example. Thankfully there are occasional sales and discounts for regular customers so if you wait, you can get a plugin or two without sinking too much coin.


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## Emperoff (Apr 28, 2021)

t1337Dude said:


> Huge fan of Neural DSP plugins. I have: Gojira, Plini, Nolly, NST, Abasi, Cali, and Omega. I pipe my guitar through a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen, add the VST's to FL Studio to combine everything I like between the plugins, and listen through customized Philharmonic BMR speakers ($2,395/pr). As you might guess I'm a metalhead to I appreciate their catering to a variety of metal tones. The inclusion of presets from Ihsahn on the Gojira plugin made me very happy. There's a giant selection of presets in this iteration so I believe there's something for everyone. It's so easy to pick a preset, pick a favorite IR, and EQ it to adapt it to your mix. So far the I feel the Gojira plugin has raised the bar for them in terms of value, versatility, and overall quality of tone. The MIDI-controllable pedals is a fantastic touch and hopefully a regular inclusion in future Archetypes. On the downside, the plugins are pricey and some offer very little versatility (e.g. Omega, Cali, or NST). The Cali is a great plugin but really shines if you can add some reverb from the Plini, for example. Thankfully there are occasional sales and discounts for regular customers so if you wait, you can get a plugin or two without sinking too much coin.



2000$ Speakers into a 100$ interface. Love it


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## Blytheryn (Apr 28, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> 2000$ Speakers into a 100$ interface. Love it



Back in the day I played an ESP Eclipse through a Line 6 Spider III. No shame.


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## Emperoff (Apr 28, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> Back in the day I played an ESP Eclipse through a Line 6 Spider III. No shame.



Shame? Maybe not... Bottleneck? Hell yeah!


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## Blytheryn (Apr 28, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Shame? Maybe not... Bottleneck? Hell yeah!



I mean I’ve upgraded to Daemoness through Neural, so I guess old habits don’t die!


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## Kyle Jordan (Apr 29, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> Back in the day I played an ESP Eclipse through a Line 6 Spider III. No shame.



Prior to getting my Axe FX III, I’ve spent the last 3 years playing two USA Select Soloists and an Indo Ibanez through an OG Vypyr 30 combo exclusively sans trying plugins. 

Owned the amp for 11-12 years. Love that little thing.


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## t1337Dude (May 2, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Shame? Maybe not... Bottleneck? Hell yeah!


As a veteran audiophile I'd challenge your assumption on that one. The Focusrite Solo is a more than capable DAC. If you're buying interfaces for sound quality and not their features, I'd argue you're doing it wrong. It has all the features I need and records at the sample rate I need at a perfectly low latency - no bottleneck at all.

If you're a sound quality guy, you should be prioritizing money into your speakers, then room acoustics, and then essentially you should be getting any DAC/receiver/amp that "gets the job done". Doing anything else is buying into snake oil. I have 3 different DACs right in front of me that I can A/B/C between. They're identical, and I guarantee you'd never be able to pinpoint which is which is a an abx test. If you're trying to tell people otherwise, then I'm curious what it is you're trying to sell me.

It pains me to see people swayed into upgrading their DAC for sound quality when they haven't even acoustically treated their room out, which is usually the more pragmatic yet more expensive venture as for as sound quality goes. In this case I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not talking about the DAC but the features. I just play guitar so I don't need a ton of ports.

But to bring it back to the thread, I did just order a couple of pedals to be used with Gojira and other Neural DSP software. Ordered myself a spring-loaded Mission EP-1 and Fractal Audio EV-1, with one of those MIDI Expression interfaces from Audiofront (this is where a better interface would've come in handy). I'm hyped to get it all hooked up.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (May 2, 2021)

70Seven said:


> Anyone use neural plugins for practise at home? Do they sound as good as how YouTube reviewers(influencers) make em sound?
> 
> I only play at home. Don’t gig and don’t record. I don’t like to play that loud so my 100 watt tube amp and 2x12 is total overkill. And because I keep the master volume so low it’s probably why I have a hard time finding tones I like from my amp. Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors.
> 
> ...



Plini used his NDP plugin for all lead tones on his latest album. Per Nilsson will use it for leads on the future SS album. Archétype Plini has great lead tones IMO.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (May 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> "_steal?_"
> 
> Stealing a trial version? Are you serious?


Read his post - continuing to create new emails to be able to continue to use it without paying, and when confronted suddenly complaining that it's alright because he paid for another plugin and no longer likes it. What a loser!


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## Emperoff (May 4, 2021)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Read his post - continuing to create new emails to be able to continue to use it without paying, and when confronted suddenly complaining that it's alright because he paid for another plugin and no longer likes it. What a loser!



I read it. He's not stealing anything, nor using cracked software. He's just being clever.

If NSDP used machine authorisation (like for example S-Gear) you wouldn't be able to do that, but since they don't, that happens.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 4, 2021)

Yeah, that's about as much "stealing" as making a go at a second round of samples at Costco.


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## narad (May 4, 2021)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Read his post - continuing to create new emails to be able to continue to use it without paying, and when confronted suddenly complaining that it's alright because he paid for another plugin and no longer likes it. What a loser!



One time I ate a free sample in a grocery store, and deep down inside I knew I wasn't even going to buy them. I'm a goddamn monster.

I mean, I don't know who you are, but as a fairly regular member most people are aware that my apartment is 4-high stacks of amps that I basically try to carve out enough space to sleep in. I don't even have enough time to play 5% of them regularly, so the thought of me actually spending the time make duplicate accounts to get more time with neuraldsp plugins is laughable. That was my point in mentioning that I bought nameless -- that I own one of these and I don't even play it. I thought that was fairly obvious but perhaps the helmet of your white knight armor is limiting your visibility.

And my point with that first post was again that, between the free trials of all VST software, good free VSTs, and more being released every month, you can basically coast for forever on free things. Like my gf is now a few months into VSTs and is only like halfway through neural's stuff. It's a good time if you're cheap or if you're traveling and want to whip up something, it's easy to do so while spending next to no money (if anything).


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