# EMG's and managing feedback



## Rev2010 (Jul 24, 2010)

My one guitar with EMG's feedbacks like crazy when I have my amp turned up, not even cranked or anything just moderately loud in house jamming levels. It does this even with my back to the amp or standing off to the side but it's a pretty small room. I have the EMG 85 in the bridge and I have an ISP Decimator noise reduction pedal which is awesome and I have set for my passive pickup based Schecter Blackjack C-7 with Duncans.

I was thinking I could simply turn up the ISP to clamp down on the quiet parts but I was wondering how problematic this may be in a live scenario. I know I know, plenty of famous bands use EMG's, but I also don't have a sound crew. So I was wondering what you guys do to combat this. Is it just as simple as increasing the noise gate? Is it not much of a problem live if you can stand further away from the amp?


Rev.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2010)

In my experience EMG's have always had less feedback issues than other pickups I've tried.


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## soggybomb (Jul 24, 2010)

Turn down the gain? My Dimarzio D-Sonic will feedback like crazy if I decide to go gonzo on the gain knob, but when I keep it in the 2-3 o'clock range they do just fine.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 24, 2010)

Active pickups having less feedback than passives?? Sorry but that's a bit hard to believe. Actives have a preamplifier which would lead to more feedback as it seems I am indeed experiencing. 

My Duncans in my Schecter and my Rockfields in my Jackson Kelly don't have this issue. 

Rev.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 25, 2010)

Did you check all the solder joints, as well as the shielding of the control cavity? 

Other than that, adjusting the gate would be the only option really. There's no magic involved in silencing pickups. If you want an easier switch for live use, consider picking up a separate gate to engage when switching to the EMG loaded guitar.

Though, I will say, just about all the properly installed EMG systems in guitars and basses I've worked on have been dead quite. So, it seems there might be an issue with install.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 25, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did you check all the solder joints, as well as the shielding of the control cavity?



It's factory loaded in my BC Rich Warlock Deluxe (the Walnut burl one from MusicFarm). The cavity is well shielded as is the back sides of the plastic cavity covers. I guess the gate is really my only option. Thanks guys.


Rev.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 25, 2010)

Interesting... just found this thread here:

EMG User Forum &bull; View topic - EMG 81 - Microphonic Feedback?

Where the guy found the pickup itself was faulty. He got a replacement off EBay and the microphonics went away. Hadn't thought yet to flip to the neck pickup and see if the feedback also occurs, I just kinda figured it was simply the nature of a preamp'd pickup. Gonna check some of this today.


Rev.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 25, 2010)

Just tested this out and the 85 in the bridge does indeed feedback a lot more than the 81 in the neck (I don't have it backward, I reversed the pickup positions when I got it). So if I turn up the amp to where the bridge pickup starts feedbacking the feedback stops if I switch to the neck pickup. I see on EMG's data sheet that the 85 has a slightly higher output so I don't know if that's simply the reason why or if I maybe just have a bad pickup. I can say the neck feedbacks like any other pickup seemingly would - at high levels and being close to the amp. The bridge however feedbacks like crazy!


Rev.


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## Ironbird666 (Jul 25, 2010)

Seems like you have a problem with the pickup dude. I have an EMG 85 in the bridge position of one of my guitars and it doesn't cause any more feedback than my passive equiped guitars. This is through a 5150 as well, which is a fairly noisey high gain amp. If it's a set of newer EMG's with the quick release, I'd try switching the pickups around in the guitar to make sure it isn't a wiring issue before you send the pickup off or get a new one. If the 85 starts squealing in the neck position, chances are it's faulty, but if the 81 starts squealing in the bridge position, might be some other issue.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks Ironbird, I'll definitely try that. I think I may wait till the next string change though as these are still fairly new. Good point though to check if it squeals in the neck position and if the 81 squeals in the bridge  That should definitely denote where the problem lies.


Rev.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 25, 2010)

Even though EMGs are higher output, they should be quieter and less likely to feed back than most passive pickups. If yours aren't like this then they might be faulty as you say.


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## crankyrayhanky (Jul 26, 2010)

a bridge pickup usually feedbacks before the neck in my experience. You mentioned a "small room". Get yourself into big room and do some testing, chances are the small room the culprit. 

Much less noise gate is usually needed at gigs due to the room size being huge compared to a small rehearsal space


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 26, 2010)

Rev2010 said:


> Active pickups having less feedback than passives?? Sorry but that's a bit hard to believe. Actives have a preamplifier which would lead to more feedback as it seems I am indeed experiencing.
> 
> My Duncans in my Schecter and my Rockfields in my Jackson Kelly don't have this issue.
> 
> Rev.





Scar Symmetry said:


> Even though EMGs are higher output, they should be quieter and less likely to feed back than most passive pickups. If yours aren't like this then they might be faulty as you say.



Dave has more gigging experience than either of us. Maybe the pups are defective as Dave is suggesting?


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## Harry (Jul 26, 2010)

My Blackouts are WAY less feedback prone than any passive pickup I've used, and all the times I've used EMG guitars in guitar shops, that was the case too, less feedback prone, due to the inherently lower noise functionality of actives


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## Demeyes (Jul 26, 2010)

I've got EMG pickups in my one of my 7's and 6 strings and I've never had much problem with them feeding back and I don't even use a noise gate. They are a little bit louder than my passives but maybe you could sort that out a bit by lowering the height of the pickup a little or even turning down the gain a bit on the amp.


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## Customisbetter (Jul 26, 2010)

use thicker strings, lower the pickup hieght a tad, or adjust your gate.


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## frank falbo (Jul 26, 2010)

What does the feedback sound like? Is it high pitched and squealy? If so, then it's 99% a potting issue. 

If it's just buzzing and humming noise that is loud enough to break the ISP gate open and allow the noise through, then it's different. It has to do with shielding and noise rejection. 

If it's a low-mid frequency howl then check to see what happens when you press your fingers on the pickup, to sort of "grab" it while it's feeding back. You're going to try to grab and hold it in place so it can't move around. If that changes or stops the feedback, then you may be able to stop your problem physically with careful placement of foam, or rubber, and maybe using rubber tubing on the mounting screws instead of springs. Blackouts will do that too if they're loosely mounted in the guitar, and you get them near the Triple Rec. There's so much gain and volume that the pickup actually moves inside it's own cavity. The onlly reason it would do that but NOT do it to a passive pickup is if the passive pickup had less gain and wasn't driving the amp as hard. In that case turning the amp's gain up to match, or putting a Booster pedal in front of the amp would probably make that pickup feed back too.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jul 29, 2010)

try backing the pickups off from the strings a little bit. this helped the feedback problems i had when i first got my 8-string with EMG 808s.


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## leonardo7 (Jul 29, 2010)

Rev2010 said:


> I have an ISP Decimator noise reduction pedal which is awesome and I have set for my passive pickup based Schecter Blackjack C-7 with Duncans.
> 
> I was thinking I could simply turn up the ISP to clamp down on the quiet parts but I was wondering how problematic this may be in a live scenario. I know I know, plenty of famous bands use EMG's, but I also don't have a sound crew. So I was wondering what you guys do to combat this. Is it just as simple as increasing the noise gate? Is it not much of a problem live if you can stand further away from the amp?
> 
> ...


I play so loud it doesnt matter what type of pickup I use, if I dont have some type of gate or reduction going then I get feedback every single time.

Just like how you will benefit from adjusting the eq on the amp each time you use different pickups, you will need to adjust the threshold on your gate or reduction as you use different pickups.

Nobody needs a sound crew to not get feedback from using EMG's. I only need either a Boss NS2, ISP Decimator or basically the Decimator sim on my axe fx! They should enable you to basically stand directly in front of the rig, facing the rig, with EMGs, with high volume levels and you should be able to get zero feedback when playing staccato riffs. I dont know what your problem is but its either something someone has already mentioned, or you need to turn up the threshold, or the pedal itself is a faulty unit but that is unlikely if it works with another guitar. If your tubes are good then I wouldnt consider the problem to be with the amp.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 29, 2010)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> try backing the pickups off from the strings a little bit. this helped the feedback problems i had when i first got my 8-string with EMG 808s.



EMG's site says that their pickups are effected nearly as much with pickup height as passives are. They actually recommend raising them closer to the strings, but I have them at normal height anyhow.

I bought Blackouts and will be trying them Saturday. I got them for a number of reasons, not cause of the feedback thing.


Rev.


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## frank falbo (Jul 29, 2010)

FYI typically I'm setting Blackouts farther away from the strings than EMG's. The Blackouts have about twice the headroom, and if you're a hard picker, that can translate into a lot more volume even though the pickup isn't really any louder.


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## leonardo7 (Jul 29, 2010)

frank falbo said:


> FYI typically I'm setting Blackouts farther away from the strings than EMG's. The Blackouts have about twice the headroom, and if you're a hard picker, that can translate into a lot more volume even though the pickup isn't really any louder.



This is true. I recently put some Blackouts in my Ibanez RG7621M BOL and have the pickups just as close to the strings as my EMG 81-7s. Ive noticed tons more volume and definitely just a bigger sound. In fact, the same input level that doesnt clip w my 81-7 equipped guitar easily clips with blackouts and Im now thinking its got to be what Frank said. I will slightly lower the pickups and see if that helps cause I do pick hard, otherwise I will simply adjust the levels to compensate.


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## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Even though EMGs are higher output, they should be quieter and less likely to feed back than most passive pickups. If yours aren't like this then they might be faulty as you say.



Nope, that could not be further from the truth my friend. EMGs are infamous for being noisy and feedback prone man. That's why the Blackouts were a welcome improvement, as their updated circuit cut down on the noise significantly (though still not as quiet as good passives). Sometimes the noise gate just isn't enough and it will squeal no matter what - especially with high-gain tube amps. 

It's been played out that way consistently in pretty much every EMG guitar I've ever had, be it on a cheapie or a $3000 custom with copper-shielded wiring. They're always noisier than their passive counter-parts. This is in any type of venue, with 6, 7 or 8-strings, with any kind of rig imaginable. At one of our recent shows I needed to borrow a friend's Agile Interceptor (a fine guitar), and I had to turn the thresh-hold on my ISP Decimator ProRackG WAY higher to try and tame the squealing. The Seymour Duncans and Bare Knuckles in my other guitars I used that same night were as quiet as can be. 

That's just one example though, it's proved to be the case hundreds of times. EMGs sound cool but they should update their 30 year old design already.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks for that Zimbloth! Good to know I'm not nuts. I just tested the same guitar today with a Duncan Blackout in the bridge that I installed and it does not suffer from the feedback problem the EMG has and I turned up *louder*!


Rev.


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## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2010)

Rev2010 said:


> Thanks for that Zimbloth! Good to know I'm not nuts. I just tested the same guitar today with a Duncan Blackout in the bridge that I installed and it does not suffer from the feedback problem the EMG has and I turned up *louder*!
> 
> 
> Rev.



Truth! Glad to hear it worked out


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 30, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> Nope, that could not be further from the truth my friend. EMGs are infamous for being noisy and feedback prone man.



Funny thing is that there are thousands of people that would disagree with you about that.

What I said about them being higher output was actually incorrect, they are in fact lower output, which is why they are quieter. Turn up the gain way high and yeah, you're going to feed back to hell and back but generally they are considered quiet pickups.

Glad the OP got what he was looking for anyway


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## Rev2010 (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Glad the OP got what he was looking for anyway



Well, I didn't say I got what I was looking for with the Duncan's, only that the feedback isn't a standout issue with them. Still comparing sounds and have to try the neck Blackout in the bridge position. After that I'll determine whether I'm sticking with the EMG's or Blackout's.


Rev.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 30, 2010)

Well I hope you do find what you're looking for then


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## Key_Maker (Jul 30, 2010)

> Nope, that could not be further from the truth my friend. EMGs are infamous for being noisy and feedback prone man.



Sorry man but, What are you talking about?

EMGs are the standard noiseless pickup in the market, they were the first that came with noiseless singles for musicians that play in front of thousand lights and kilometers of cable and static and their Humbuckers are just even more noise free, every guitar that i have has emg and never have noise problems, and if i have them, come from bad quality cables, microfonic tubes, ground loops or stupid amounts of gain and boosters that used to be with the passive ones.

I could not be more disagree about that.


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## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Funny thing is that there are thousands of people that would disagree with you about that.
> 
> What I said about them being higher output was actually incorrect, they are in fact lower output, which is why they are quieter. Turn up the gain way high and yeah, you're going to feed back to hell and back but generally they are considered quiet pickups.



Then there are thousands of people who are misinformed. They always feedback more in high gain situations relative to quality passives or even Blackouts. This is not some random opinion, it's fact based on hundreds of guitars that have come my way via my personal collection, my store, or working on friends/customer's guitars. When replacing the EMGs with another pickup _completely _alleviates feedback problems, it's pretty obvious. The EMG 707 and 808s seem to be the worst of the bunch noise-wise, but the 81s aren't immune either.

EMGs have a cool tone, I'm not ragging on them tonally, but the notion that they're quieter than passives is flat out absurd. Depending on conditions it may not be problematic to some, but relative to good passives it's definitely noisier. When you're constantly having to turn the noisegate threshold up when breaking out an EMG guitar, it's kind of obvious. With digital or solid-state amps its probably not as noticeable, but with just about any high-gain tube amp I've come cross its definitely an issue - especially at gigging levels. It doesn't mean the feedbacks not going to be able to be controlled, and for some it may not be bad at all, but we're talking relative to (good) passives here. 

Now, even with Duncans or Bare Knuckles, they still require a noisegate when being used with a high-gain tube amp at gigging levels, but they're much quieter and easier to control than when switching to a guitar with EMGs. And it's not about passive vs active either, I've replaced EMGs with Blackouts in many many guitars and that always helped a ton too. I think what may be confusing some is that there are two kinds of pickup noise. There's hum/idle noise, and then there's feedback. EMGs are quiet in regards to the former, but they have major issues with the latter. And with feedback that's more likely to come about when playing through tube-amps at rehearsal/gigging volumes. 

I don't see a point in arguing this. My experience is what it is. If your experience differs, that's fine too.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 30, 2010)

I agree that's down to personal experience, what some might find to be the case all the time, others may never have problems with. However, by this token, this means that those thousands of people couldn't be misinformed as they haven't come across the problems you're talking about 



Key_Maker said:


> Sorry man but, What are you talking about?
> 
> EMGs are the standard noiseless pickup in the market, they were the first that came with noiseless singles for musicians that play in front of thousand lights and kilometers of cable and static and their Humbuckers are just even more noise free, every guitar that i have has emg and never have noise problems, and if i have them, come from bad quality cables, microfonic tubes, ground loops or stupid amounts of gain and boosters that used to be with the passive ones.
> 
> I could not be more disagree about that.



Yeah, this, basically.

I occasionally get noise problems when recording, but I think that has something to do with my interface, though I'm not going to pretend that I know for a fact what causes it.


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## Rev2010 (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> However, by this token, this means that those thousands of people couldn't be misinformed as they haven't come across the problems you're talking about



Billions of people believe God exists and that religion is the right way... doesn't make it true or correct.

I've used EMG's in the past, though years ago, and I've always recalled a problem with feedback that I didn't have with passives. Maybe the 85 I have in question is faulty in some way, but I doubt it. Fact is my Schecter with Duncans doesn't have this problem, my Jackson with Rockfields doesn't have this problem, and the BC Rich Warlock with Duncan Blackouts doesn't have this problem. Of course feedback is expected when playing somewhat close to one's high gain tube amp. But my EMG 85 squeals like a pig at a much lower level than my other pickups.


Rev.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 30, 2010)

That's a whole different kettle of fish.

Like I said dude, I think all it boils down to is whether you come across it or not, whatever the cause.


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## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> That's a whole different kettle of fish.
> 
> Like I said dude, I think all it boils down to is whether you come across it or not, whatever the cause.



I think you missed the point dude. I wasn't saying everyone will experience feedback issues with EMGs. I was saying that relative to most passives, they are more feedback prone. This can be easily proven and demonstrated. Do you see the difference? Of course not everyone is going to experience the feedback problems, but that doesn't have anything to do with the 'EMGs are quieter than passives' statement being bogus. It's relative.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 30, 2010)

How exactly have I missed the point? I just wanted to set the record straight that it's not a fact like you made it sound. 

You said that EMGs are noisy/feedback prone and this is a well known fact. I said that a lot of people find EMGs to be quieter than most pickups.

While you may have found this, that's fine. But again, if not everyone experiences this, then it cannot be a bogus statement.


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## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> How exactly have I missed the point? I just wanted to set the record straight that it's not a fact like you made it sound.
> 
> You said that EMGs are noisy/feedback prone and this is a well known fact. I said that a lot of people find EMGs to be quieter than most pickups.
> 
> While you may have found this, that's fine. But again, if not everyone experiences this, then it cannot be a bogus statement.



It is a fact that EMGs are more feedback prone than quality passives though. It's not an opinion. This is going nowhere though so let's just drop it.


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## bklixuz (Jul 30, 2010)

same here... emg's to my 5150 feedbacks like crazy and not even the NS2 can help it... but almost no feedback on my bkp (passive) not even using the ns2


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## Key_Maker (Jul 30, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> It is a fact that EMGs are more feedback prone than quality passives though. It's not an opinion. This is going nowhere though so let's just drop it.



It is your opinion based in your experience, but it is a fact that they have less noise problems with huge rigs and millions of lights becouse they low impedance and preamp construction, that's the fact, the other is your experience.

IMO it is a touring/studio pickup more than a bed pickup and every time i had play live with my pickups has been a pleasant work.


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