# #ThisIsACauseNow Why Is Everyone a Special Snowflake?



## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

I found an article about this on Facebook the other day basically calling millenials a bunch of cry babies because every single time anything happens you end up with a bunch of butthurt adults trying to turn hashtags into a cause.

As a child I remember being told on numerous occasions by my parents, "Walk that .... off, boy..." To some that may sound harsh. To others that may only be the tip of the iceberg as far as their experience(s) growing up. However, I can't help but wonder how we suddenly seem to be raising a generation of what I would call "emotionally soft" individuals...

Can we talk about this w/o flaming each other?


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## ASoC (Dec 4, 2015)

I agree completely. People are too damn sensitive these days.


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## MatthewK (Dec 4, 2015)

Everyone wants to be a victim.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

Oh... Wanna know what's funny? I can't post a link to the article because it's been REMOVED FROM FACEBOOK, thus proving the article's point.


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## asher (Dec 4, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Can we talk about this w/o flaming each other?



No. 

More thoughts later when I feel like I can put them together better, but my short response is: micro-aggression special snowflakes are the outside edge of a mostly positive move towards recognizing that for a lot of previously ignored subgroups, things are Not Okay.


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## Don Vito (Dec 4, 2015)

How dare you. I'll have you know my life partner is a mixed race, non-gender on the autism spectrum. I showed her this thread and she had several suicide and rape flashbacks, and it's all because of YOU.


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## sevenstringj (Dec 4, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Oh... Wanna know what's funny? I can't post a link to the article because it's been REMOVED FROM FACEBOOK, thus proving the article's point.



I guess now you'll just have to hope some millennial snowflake was computer savvy enough to take screen shots.


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## Explorer (Dec 4, 2015)

There have been several attempts in the past in North America to have people "walk it off."

Among the times where just accepting a situation was rejected were the American War of Independence, the Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement, the loss of status of the Ku Klux Klan, and the Supreme Court decision on marriage equality. 

Those various clusters indicate that such rejection of the status quo gains momentum as people start talking about circumstances. 

----

The best irony is that when people complain about hashtags, they are indicating that they can't just walk off the existence of such hashtags, thus disproving any notions that they themselves are above being butthurt.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 4, 2015)

asher said:


> No.
> 
> More thoughts later when I feel like I can put them together better, but my short response is: micro-aggression special snowflakes are the outside edge of a mostly positive move towards recognizing that for a lot of previously ignored subgroups, things are Not Okay.




Pretty much this.

I, personally, think it's the collective consciousness of our culture coming to grips with what we're learning about ourselves as people, and as a society.


EDIT



Explorer said:


> The best irony is that when people complain about hashtags, they are indicating that they can't just walk off the existence of such hashtags, thus disproving any notions that they themselves are above being butthurt.



"I'm butt-hurt that you are butt-hurt!" 


EDIT AGAIN



MatthewK said:


> Everyone wants to be a victim.



Does that mean we ignore those who actually are victims? While that's probably not what you meant, I still feel like it's a question that should be asked.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

sevenstringj said:


> I guess now you'll just have to hope some millennial snowflake was computer savvy enough to take screen shots.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

*post deleted* I shall henceforth refrain from being a douche canoe ...


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Pretty much this.
> 
> I, personally, think it's the collective consciousness of our culture coming to grips with what we're learning about ourselves as people, and as a society.
> 
> ...


I can dig that. It just seems like lately--and this might just be who I happen to know online--ppl are hopping on any of these movements like class action lawsuits, hashtagging things that only marginally affect them if at all and I can't help but think they simply hope to gain an advantage. Not all of them but quite a few appear that way to me.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 4, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I can dig that. It just seems like lately--and this might just be who I happen to know online--ppl are hopping on any of these movements like class action lawsuits, hashtagging things that only marginally affect them if at all and I can't help but think they simply hope to gain an advantage. Not all of them but quite a few appear that way to me.



I know what you mean. There's a good reason I don't post much on social media!

At the same time, I don't want to get caught up in dismissing every new hastag cause thingy that pops up on my feed. I guess there's a balance somewhere.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

There most definitely is. It sucks because I'm sure some of these causes are very serious and absolutely valid, but in a way I also feel like after having to sift through the bs I'm becoming desensitized to them altogether short of just being annoyed every time someone gets triggered over someone looking at them funny.


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## asher (Dec 4, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Does that mean we ignore those who actually are victims? While that's probably not what you meant, I still feel like it's a question that should be asked.



Yes, yes we do.

It's kind of like what I was trying to say in the Paris thread: getting bent out of shape over people jumping on hashtag and profile overlay bandwagons is completely useless.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

I think to some extent it's becoming difficult to tell victim from those who cry wolf for attention or whatever else. When I read what some folks go on about I can only think, "You're ruining the message of this movement and cheapening it for those who may actually NEED it to maintain it's legitimacy."


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## Don Vito (Dec 4, 2015)

Don Vito said:


> How dare you. I'll have you know my life partner is a mixed race, *non-gender* on the autism spectrum. I showed *her* this thread and *she* had several suicide and rape flashbacks, and it's all because of YOU.


I just realized my .... up. She got all 7 of our cats in the divorce.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 4, 2015)

asher said:


> Yes, yes we do.
> 
> It's kind of like what I was trying to say in the Paris thread: getting bent out of shape over people jumping on hashtag and profile overlay bandwagons is completely useless.



Hmm, well I guess in my head I was thinking of things like the BlackLivesMatter thing. From what I saw, the basis of it was good in that it pointed out a systemic inequality that still exists. In that sense, without regard to how some people took the trend way too far, the cause ended up being an opportunity and a reminder to check myself and reflect on if I had any racist tendencies.

That's a case I'm glad I didn't ignore, since there really are victims who shouldn't be "thrown out with the bath water" so to speak.

There's something to be said for awareness. The problem is that awareness in only part of the equation. I often ask what those kinds of things do (hashtags, social media posts, changing profile pics). So in my case, instead of getting "bent out of shape" over the next hashtagwagon I look for ways to actually help. In the case I gave above, the best way I figured I could help was to audit my behavior and worldview, and when appropriate offer the challenge for others to do the same.


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## flint757 (Dec 4, 2015)

Not sure we can pin this solely on millennials since a lot of the butthurt I see on Facebook is generations quite a bit older (although teen millennials are typically huge assholes on the internet, but the joke's on them when adulthood hits ). I mean #bluelivesmatter, #alllivesmatter, etc. I can almost guarantee weren't millennial inventions. The one hashtag I've grown quite sick of, however, is the ones comparing literally any controversy, even insignificant ones, to Watergate. 

I obviously didn't read the article since it isn't there, but literally everyone is more butthurt these days. Conservatives are throwing a big fuss about stores choosing not to sell flags, same-sex marriage, Obama, 'socialism', etc. and liberals are butthurt about guns, racism, Trump, etc.. Teens are upset about inequality, job availability, college loans, etc. and older people are upset that things aren't the way they used to be. 

The only thing different today is ALL of it is a lot more visible than it used to be. Before the internet, especially before Facebook, you could go your whole lifetime without hearing people 'whine' for the most part and if they did they had to do it in person, which requires some civility. Not sure I can solely blame millennials when a lot of older individuals complain an equal amount, if not more. 

Hashtags, when not used for helping built-in filters, is exceptionally annoying in general. I've hated it since Twitter made it a thing to do.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 4, 2015)

I think maybe it's not so much that more people are sensitive and butt-hurt than before, but that its much easier for us to see and hear all the butt-hurt people with the rapid exchange of information we have these days.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 4, 2015)

That's a fair point.


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## Chokey Chicken (Dec 4, 2015)

flint757 said:


> Not sure we can pin this solely on millennials since a lot of the butthurt I see on Facebook is generations quite a bit older (although teen millennials are typically huge assholes on the internet, but the joke's on them when adulthood hits ). I mean #bluelivesmatter, #alllivesmatter, etc. I can almost guarantee weren't millennial inventions. The one hashtag I've grown quite sick of, however, is the ones comparing literally any controversy, even insignificant ones, to Watergate.
> 
> I obviously didn't read the article since it isn't there, but literally everyone is more butthurt these days. Conservatives are throwing a big fuss about stores choosing not to sell flags, same-sex marriage, Obama, 'socialism', etc. and liberals are butthurt about guns, racism, Trump, etc.. Teens are upset about inequality, job availability, college loans, etc. and older people are upset that things aren't the way they used to be.
> 
> ...




Older folks tend to complain more to each other offline. Go hang out at a McDonald's early in the AM and prepare to hear a bunch of racist homophobic people talk their .....

I think its annoying how everyone feels like they need to be a special snowflake, but its ultimately harmless. Lots of good has come from the fire that complaining starts, so whatever. Let some anonymous numb nuts feel important with his goofy hashtag, so long as progress keeps on keeping, its cool.


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## asher (Dec 4, 2015)




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## Hollowway (Dec 4, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Can we talk about this w/o flaming each other?





Konfyouzd said:


> Oh Explorer... Always with the veiled ad hominem attacks as opposed to contributing anything of value. Thanks, though.



Well, that didn't last long! 

But I'm on the fence about this one. On the one hand I get super sick of hearing Christians and white men say they are being persecuted as a minority, but at the same time there are a lot of people who are actual victims. I do like that people are standing up for themselves, rather than just taking a beating and staying quiet (figuratively speaking), but I don't much like first world whining, either. I guess for me it's just a matter of degree. But I 100% agree that kids should be taught the difference between being a winner and being a participant. I hate kids sports where "everyone gets a medal." I think that teaches a false version of hard-work-leads-to-success.


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## metaljohn (Dec 4, 2015)

I don't know if the article you're talking about is the same one I read the other day, but the main thing I picked up from it was that this generation can't seem to handle any opinion different than theirs, on any subject, no matter how minor it may be.

If someone has a different opinion than me, I get the .... over it. With seemingly many people, if someone has a different opinion than they do, it's the end of the world. 

Do you know how often is see the phrase "If you believe/don't believe ______, delete me now." on Facebook? I think a lot of people in this generation need to get over themselves.


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## flint757 (Dec 4, 2015)

I grew up in an era of participation trophies and I hated it as well. We aren't idiots. We know that we didn't achieve anything. 

When I was in karate you won a trophy for each match. The winner got a 1st place trophy and the loser got a second place trophy. I mean that's a bit silly. Maybe I was more self aware than other kids, but trophy or not, when I lost or was in last place I most definitely knew it and was not proud of that fact. I don't recall any event that didn't have participation awards or a bunch of runner up awards either (definitely not a fan). Speaking of, I find the attendance award in schools to be especially stupid: One, you're supposed to be in school. It's not supposed to be amazing that you actually showed up. Two, this trophy has prompted many overachieving parents/kids to go to school even when they were highly contagious. I got pneumonia, chicken pox, and bronchitis (many times) simply because a child came to school with it, as their attendance record was more important than preventing the spread of disease.


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## flint757 (Dec 4, 2015)

metaljohn said:


> Do you know how often is see the phrase "If you believe/don't believe ______, delete me now." on Facebook? I think a lot of people in this generation need to get over themselves.



Do you genuinely only see this from millennials though? 

I have baby boomers, X, Y and millennials on my Facebook and at some point they have all said stupid .... like that. I agree, they need to get over themselves.


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## Explorer (Dec 4, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Oh Explorer... Always with the veiled ad hominem attacks as opposed to contributing anything of value. Thanks, though.



I pointed out that those people complaining about the newer generation(s) being whiny or sensitive were being whiny or sensitive. 

I also pointed out examples of where actually being willing to stand up and be vocal led to change in society, including with the recent marriage equality decision.

Those facts would allow one to weigh whether it truly is just younger generations engaging in "special snowflake" behavior (and which is driving, for example, the conservative "war on christmas/christianity" narrative, to give another example of what is being decried), or if this is something which has spanned generations. 

If you want to refute my points, I'll be interested in reading your refutation.

If you feel that those facts are ad hominem attacks by reality, I don't have a solution for you.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 4, 2015)

I don't see this as a generational thing- at least at the core issue. I feel we're touching on a core issue of humanity where we tend to favor those who are like us. The only generational factor is that younger generations grew up with the internet and thus are more openly communicative on it. Other than that, everyone has the tendency to gravitate toward those who think, believe, and behave as they do.

...but not everyone is self-aware enough to realize it, and thus resist it.


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## metaljohn (Dec 4, 2015)

flint757 said:


> Do you genuinely only see this from millennials though?
> 
> I have baby boomers, X, Y and millennials on my Facebook and at some point they have all said stupid .... like that. I agree, they need to get over themselves.



Yes. I have literally only seen people my age (28) and younger post something like that. The older people will talk mad amounts of .... about your opinions but have never posted any of the ridiculous "delete me now posts".


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## Hollowway (Dec 4, 2015)

Yeah, I don't feel that millennials are any more closed minded than other generations. Shoot, the baby boomers are the ones all excited about Trump. I think older people generally get more conservative. Or maybe, they don't want to change with the times. I'm gen X, and a lot of my friends are ultra conservative, but weren't in high school. Like, they believe global warming isn't happening, and anyone who isn't white should "go back to their own country."


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## Chokey Chicken (Dec 4, 2015)

Perhaps a tad off topic, but I never realized how racist my family was until facebook. They'll say some crazy racist .... and be all "amirightgaiz?" All the more scary as I'm one of the very few non-white members of the family. I sometimes wonder what they all think of me.


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## 8StringX (Dec 5, 2015)

I was thinking about something like this the other day. Every single minute opinion, especially if people discover that someone in the world may not wholeheartedly agree with them, now has to become a movement or a protest. This is one of the problems I have with social media. People say it brings us closer together but, because of things like this, it has really only segregated us more than ever.


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## will_shred (Dec 5, 2015)

How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic

sums up my feelings on the subject. When masses of Yale students can't handle halloween because the costumes might be "triggering" than something, somewhere along the line, has gone horribly wrong. It's almost as if they were raised to believe that they're the center of the world or something.


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## Ibanezsam4 (Dec 5, 2015)

its a combination of several factors, but most of hashtag activism and the trophy participation comes out of a few generations of parents and education focusing on the self-esteem of kids rather than teaching them to be resilient and resourceful. 

there was a fantastic documentary called "Waiting on Superman" and in its trailer it points to how Americans lag behind the western world in actual academic achievement but for some reason feel more confident about themselves. 

the thought is that self confident children accomplish more in life, so give everyone a trophy to make them feel good. this environment leads to coddling and over-protectiveness on the part of parents and organized education and sports during the formative years in a child's life.

now mix this all in a post-9/11 culture of safety at all costs and you have the current crop of 90s born children who can't cope with jack sh!t. 

all this micro-aggression BS has existed for years. it just now has an attentive audience because it provides a generation of over-protected young people another means of sheltering themselves from the cold, icy grip of the real world. 

this was linked in the blog post but it deserves the extra attention https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...g-student-resilience-serious-problem-colleges

i posted this to my Facebook saying i feel sorry for all of my former professors ever dealing with this. my old journalism teacher commented back reaffirming the article. 

now i understand the reasoning behind not saying "man up" anymore.. but there is a good life lesson in meaning behind the phrase. today's tykes (actual kids not the larger entitled versions who live at university) need to be told to "rub some dirt on it" and move on before this mistake gets repeated in the future.


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## Hollowway (Dec 5, 2015)

@Ibanezsam4 - great post. Esp the stuff about Americans feeling more confident but lagging behind the rest of the world. That's interesting stuff. I'm going to have to look into that Waiting for Superman.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

metaljohn said:


> I don't know if the article you're talking about is the same one I read the other day, but the main thing I picked up from it was that this generation can't seem to handle any opinion different than theirs, on any subject, no matter how minor it may be.
> 
> If someone has a different opinion than me, I get the .... over it. With seemingly many people, if someone has a different opinion than they do, it's the end of the world.
> 
> Do you know how often is see the phrase "If you believe/don't believe ______, delete me now." on Facebook? I think a lot of people in this generation need to get over themselves.



This is exactly the article I read and it's actually back up on Facebook now... Lemme find the link.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

Explorer said:


> I pointed out that those people complaining about the newer generation(s) being whiny or sensitive were being whiny or sensitive.
> 
> I also pointed out examples of where actually being willing to stand up and be vocal led to change in society, including with the recent marriage equality decision.
> 
> ...


In all honesty, I believe I misinterpreted your post as being a passive aggressive jab at the topic itself. For that I apologize.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

Here it is... 

https://theoxytocinchronicle.wordpr...on-cry-baby-why-millennials-are-a-fking-joke/


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## will_shred (Dec 5, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I can dig that. It just seems like lately--and this might just be who I happen to know online--ppl are hopping on any of these movements like class action lawsuits, hashtagging things that only marginally affect them if at all and I can't help but think they simply hope to gain an advantage. Not all of them but quite a few appear that way to me.



I think its a risk vs reward thing. There might be very little actual reward when it comes to hashtag activism, but there is also virtually zero risk. So people prefer that trade off over actually going out on the streets/organizing in solidarity. It takes too much work to actually put pressure on our government, so people don't do it. In a way, the internet has become a really great asset for the corporatist power structure. Let people have their online movements, because as long as they can vent their frustrations online they may be less inclined to actually go and do something that would be a thorn in the side of business as usual. Though there are still a good handful of people willing to go out and protest, as we saw with Occupy Wall Street.

Unless you're taking the position that people fighting against the power structure are cry babies, in which case I think that's just plain wrong.


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## JeffFromMtl (Dec 5, 2015)

I spent 5 years in University and that's the place where you see a whole .... ton of this sort of thing mostly, I think, because people in Universities are exposed to world and social issues in a purely theoretical/academic sense. Therefore they're not taught to do anything tangible about it, they're asked to analyze it and create an opinion, which is exactly what shows up in articles published in academic and non-academic sources. What it doesn't translate well into is actual social change because when you write an academic paper outlining the causes of issue A and blaming source X and hand it in to a teacher, you're graded on your thought process and reasoning skills - not how effectively you can actually speak to someone on the matter or get into the streets and incite change. The problem there is that when those students graduate, they maintain the same thought and reasoning processes when they move on to writing articles for academic journals, online publications, etc. and so when they blame source X in these media, they don't take into account that it's impossible to blame anyone without alienating someone. So it's this big, stupid cycle of butt hurt. Things, of course, are entirely different outside the "progressive thought" incubator of academia, and it's rare that those outside of it consider the merits of anything born within it. And in reality, the truths discovered by an academic nor the truths discovered by someone who learned through experience are absolute. It'll be somewhere along the spectrum in many shades of grey and likely without any one true solution or answer. In either respect, the problem lies in puritanical thinking, which both ends of the spectrum are entirely guilty of. Blame begets blame and hatred begets hatred, and nobody does anyone else any favours when they rage over anything over social media, period.

That, and everyone's full of ..... Social media has created a major crisis of identity in young people and encourages them to exhibit themselves as the type of person who stands for certain things or enjoys certain other things. A lot of what people do on social media is a calculated effort to convince people what type of person they are, just as most people seem far more concerned with being/identifying as a democrat or republican than with what a given political party's platform actually entails. Identity has been an important facet of the human condition since the beginning of time but when you grow up in a largely comfortable environment, the struggle for personal identity becomes your only true crisis.

And as an aside about the academic process, I think it's broken as its agenda is far too skewed to one political/social ideal to promote balanced and reasonable thought (and that's coming from someone who themselves is a definite leftist), but that's for another thread.


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## Explorer (Dec 5, 2015)

JeffFromMtl said:


> And as an aside about the academic process, I think it's broken as its agenda is far too skewed to one political/social ideal to promote balanced and reasonable thought (and that's coming from someone who themselves is a definite leftist), but that's for another thread.



It's interesting to see you connect the hashtag movement with leftist academic situations, because one of the more recent hashtags arose when complaints were voiced about politicians who, rather than taking action as their job requires, were instead talking about sending good thoughts and prayers. 

And thus was born the "prayershaming" hashtag, with the false complaint that it was about shaming prayer rather than pointing out deliberate inaction in preventing loss of life (whether coupled with prayer or not). 

To show the difference, in case it's not clear, no one complains if a firefighter prays *as long as the firefighter does the job.* If the firefighter gets to a fire, and then kneels down and prays for the best without taking action, his disciplinary action and dismissal won't be about his faith, but about his failure to do his job. 

Being as it is a conservative right complaint defending inaction through a hashtag, that undermines the whole left/right argument, doesn't it?


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## JeffFromMtl (Dec 5, 2015)

Explorer said:


> It's interesting to see you connect the hashtag movement with leftist academic situations, because one of the more recent hashtags arose when complaints were voiced about politicians who, rather than taking action as their job requires, were instead talking about sending good thoughts and prayers.
> 
> And thus was born the "prayershaming" hashtag, with the false complaint that it was about shaming prayer rather than pointing out deliberate inaction in preventing loss of life (whether coupled with prayer or not).
> 
> ...



Maybe so, but even then, it speaks to the effect of people thinking in absolutes/blacks and whites/lefts and rights.

I'm not particularly active on social media and I don't have twitter, so I don't actually see a whole lot of this hashtag bull.... (and haven't seen your particular example), but I've read plenty of articles and journals written by people who I largely agree with who just don't couch things in terms that are particularly conducive to uniting people for a cause, but rather choose to make it about taking sides. In that respect, I find the left has become just as puritanical in thought as the the right, which is kind of counter-productive when it comes to political debate or social change.

I've had a lot of negative feelings toward academia since my days spent there, but something that happened recently that speaks to the whole social media activist/triggered/micro-aggressed/culturally appropriated millennial just happened at the University of Ottawa a week or two ago. An organization had a *free* yoga class that was designed to accommodate people with disabilities shut down because they claimed that because yoga is a traditionally Indian practice and that because the British (of whose commonwealth Canada is a part of) colonized its country of origin, practicing it here is cultural appropriation. The organization bought into this and the University bought into this because people who are obsessed with being outraged and pointing out social injustices just had to find something nice to ruin in the name of perceived progressiveness.

And if it's not entirely clear already, it's not the left or the right I'm blaming... it's the fact that the voice and agenda in higher education doesn't offer much opportunity for critical thinking or a varied approach. I'd have loved to have a conservative-minded professor to hold open, intelligent dialogue with. Given, of course, that his marking scheme doesn't hinge on me agreeing with his point of view, but rather examining it and criticizing it, or perhaps offering another perspective.


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## Xaios (Dec 5, 2015)

Don Vito said:


> I just realized my .... up. She got all 7 of our cats in the divorce.



Excuse me, those aren't _cats_. They're non-human sentient furbabies, you speciesist troglodyte.


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## Explorer (Dec 6, 2015)

@Jeff - I'm not sure I agree with your assertions about the left being as eager as the right to shut down discussion. 

Left: Let people in our plurality choose which religious beliefs they follow.

Right: Allow public officials to impose their beliefs and practices upon those who might not share those beliefs. 

Left: Let's talk about possible solutions to the gun violence epidemic. 

Right: No. 

Left: What is the best data on climate change and its causes?

Right: Let's not. Further, when we have the ability/power, let's prevent government scientists from speaking publicly. 

There are many areas which make obvious examples of such thinking. 

Even hashtags which sought to bring disproportional death rates of minorities at the hands of police were objected to, and attempted derailings about how we shouldn't concentrate on that disproportional death rate, but instead focus even on places where there are no such problems. 

It's similar to how misogynist groups talk about how even men get raped, therefore women shouldn't complain... but such groups actually don't then do the same antirape work which is undertaken by those they criticize. The antirape work even doesn't even exclude men, being as it's about rape victims and perpetrators instead of worrying about the gender of the victims, but the misogynist groups instead cling to their manufactured false criticism. 

----

For me, one of the best rules for determining if a position is bullchit is whether it's actually working towards a solution, or is mainly about complaining about those trying to make things better.


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## narad (Dec 6, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> @Ibanezsam4 - great post. Esp the stuff about Americans feeling more confident but lagging behind the rest of the world. That's interesting stuff. I'm going to have to look into that Waiting for Superman.



It's quite a complicated issue though. I don't think the students at low quality schools feel very confident in their education, and the students who are at high quality American schools do receive an education that is competitive in world standards. So that statement - confidence vs. education quality - is probably not a key point to walk away from that documentary with.


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## ghostred7 (Dec 6, 2015)

Young, old...doesn't matter. The populace as a whole really needs to be stop being a bunch of whiny assholes. The over-sensitive, always politically-correct crap has got to stop. Sometimes feelings get hurt. Suck it the .... up. Let's have some room for people with REAL problems so we can help those truly in need and not have some little crybaby dip.... in the way b/c they were offended over a cup or the shape of a holiday candy.


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## russmuller (Dec 6, 2015)

I definitely roll my eyes at a lot of the hashtag activism. That's not to say that I think it's pointless, because the truth is that a lot of issues deserve our attention and merely bringing up the topic can do a lot to raise our collective consciousness and ethical standards. But for everyone who actually cares about raising awareness, there are a hundred other people who simply want to be validated by jumping on a bandwagon or are addicted to the feeling of self-righteous outrage.

I wonder if hashtag activism is this generation's preferred ideological echo chamber since many of us are drifting further away from religious affiliation. Perhaps this is the face of tribalism in the new millennium.


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## Bodes (Dec 6, 2015)

I'm laughing at the irony that some people are whining about people whining. 

In a sense there seems to be many people who think sharing a hashtag shows that they care about an issue and are bringing a greater awareness towards said issue, despite the hashtag almost doing nothing, I.e. Ice bucket challenge, where people poured ice water on their heads instead of donating their time and/or money towards much needed research. That did raise a lot of money, but if EVERYONE who did the challenge sent the money they spent on buying ice and buckets to the charities involved, instead of making themselves cold for a few minutes...

But on the other hand, how many of you knew the devastating effects of motor neurone disease before that particular hashtag/concept went viral?

Hashtags do seem to bring light to some issues and can start or stop things happening in a political or social realm, but I do see some young people almost being pressured into hash tagging out of fear that their peers will mock them or bag them out for not sharing the same views as them, which makes the whole hash tagging thing almost segregating in some way.


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## sevenstringj (Dec 6, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Perhaps a tad off topic, but I never realized how racist my family was until facebook. They'll say some crazy racist .... and be all "amirightgaiz?" All the more scary as I'm one of the very few non-white members of the family. I sometimes wonder what they all think of me.



They think "why can't they all be like Chokey Chicken?"


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## lemeker (Dec 6, 2015)

I agree with the majority of that article. I don't agree that it's strictly millennials though. I do miss the man up and rub some dirt on it days. 

That said and maybe slightly off topic; I do for the most part think society as a whole is too sensitive. I'm of the opinion that most people just need to mind their own business. I am of the if you dont like it, too bad philosophy. That doesn't mean I won't listen, or im not compassionate towards anyone else's opinion. I welcome it actually. 

Of all the hashtag stuff going on is the #blacklivesmatter. This is simply b.s. to me because guess what people.

ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!


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## JeffFromMtl (Dec 6, 2015)

Explorer said:


> @Jeff - I'm not sure I agree with your assertions about the left being as eager as the right to shut down discussion.
> 
> Left: Let people in our plurality choose which religious beliefs they follow.
> 
> ...



I really won't disagree with that - but almost strictly in the case of the purely political arena because leftist politics are clearly more concerned with social change, meanwhile conservative politics, by name, are essentially about standing pat.

But when you take it to a social or even socio-political level, things kind of change. While under the guise of progressiveness and compassion for the underdog, the left will exceedingly commonly openly berate the right and demonize them rather than creating dialogue. This is simply stooping to the same level. And it's not just when it comes to dealing with people who identify themselves differently than you do.

I've seen far too many people advocating social change and championing moving things in a direction that I agree with entirely, however far too often, when they're creating dialogue with someone who is either of a different opinion or less informed than they are, they're incredibly quick to act like complete assholes, treating the person they're engaged in discussion with as if their opinions are entirely invalid and better yet, they're blatantly insulting them on a personal level. It's as if people know that they're not going to change anyone's mind through dialogue, so instead they just go ahead and exacerbate the situation by further dividing each other with insults rather than trying to work together to find a better, more cooperative way of working things out.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Dec 6, 2015)

Most of the times I see someone complaining that people are too sensitive, that person is just upset that people don't like it when he's an asshole to everyone anymore.

I mean, I understand that some people _are_ too sensitive, but on the whole, is it really a bad thing to want people not to be dicks? I think the hyper-sensitive trigger-warning kids are still an extreme (albeit vocal) minority, so what are people really complaining about? It's often just people seeing stuff like Jeff's extreme example of a Yoga clinic being shut down because practicing something Indian in a British commonwealth is cultural appropriation, and using it as an excuse to tell _everyone_ how whiny they are and how they need to just suck it up, as a thinly veiled disguise for trying to excuse themselves for being generally insufferable human beings.


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## Eliguy666 (Dec 6, 2015)

My philosophy on this is simple.

Some of us have been robbed/beaten/raped/etc.

If you haven't, then shut the f*ck up about not being allowed to poke fun at marginalized people.

Self-righteous libertarianism is some of the ugliest stuff in metal. If you think somebody else is being too sensitive about something, it's probably because they've actually had significant experience with it or know people who do.


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## Eliguy666 (Dec 6, 2015)

lemeker said:


> ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!



Nobody's debating that, by the way. The issue with it is just that not all lives are put at incredible risk by racism/sexism/heteronormativity/etc.

BLM folks hold to it because when a black person is killed, by police or otherwise, people can be suspiciously f*cking quick to say that they deserved it.

(Sorry for the double post)


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## MrWulf (Dec 6, 2015)

For all the talk about "helping" marginalized people, to me it is nothing more than a ploy to drive people further apart and an effort to look good, rather than doing good. All the protest in Ferguson did a fat lot of good when in the end the protesters demanded money from the organization that hired them to protest. Lots of noise, but ultimately nothing at the end. Of course, if we look a little more closely into situation regarding those shooting there are a lot of interesting details that get left out, but who cares about reality when you can hammer a narrative again and again? The current trend in the colleges though? A bit more worrying. Progress are driven by discomfort, and these people and so-called SJW are wanting comfort because they realized that they can effectively make people cave into their demand by spouting buzzwords and pretending to have a safe place for "everyone", including the "marginalized" people. Well guess what? As one of the "marginalized" people, i'd prefer not to, so blow me, i guess?


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## lemeker (Dec 6, 2015)

Eliguy666 said:


> Nobody's debating that, by the way. The issue with it is just that not all lives are put at incredible risk by racism/sexism/heteronormativity/etc.
> 
> BLM folks hold to it because when a black person is killed, by police or otherwise, people can be suspiciously f*cking quick to say that they deserved it.
> 
> (Sorry for the double post)



I agree, it's a damn shame too. There are stand up people in every culture/community, that shouldn't be marginalized by a few bad apples.


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## Eliguy666 (Dec 6, 2015)

> As one of the "marginalized" people, i'd prefer not to, so blow me, i guess?


Well, as another, I'd rather not. I look for compassion, spirit, empathy, and all manner of other traits in people before even considering.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 6, 2015)

Eliguy666 said:


> Nobody's debating that, by the way. The issue with it is just that not all lives are put at incredible risk by racism/sexism/heteronormativity/etc.
> 
> BLM folks hold to it because when a black person is killed, by police or otherwise, people can be suspiciously f*cking quick to say that they deserved it.
> 
> (Sorry for the double post)



Yea exactly. And we already kind of addressed that earlier (not directed at you, Eli). The movements that spawned in retaliation to that movement and those that keep saying, "ALL LIVES MATTER, DUMMY!" completely miss the point. I'd rather they speak up in light of the fact that they themselves have been wronged and the courage of another group to speak up has inspired them to do the same.

Those who began that movement do NOT WANT TO START A BLACK SUPREMACY MOVEMENT. Again... If you believe that, just think about it a little longer and see if you can really make sense of that or if you're just responding before your knee finishes jerking.

And even still... Why does hearing that bother people so much in the first place? If the folks that so vehemently protest it are being killed indiscriminately by persons of authority, that's fine. But most of the time when I hear it, it comes from white folks who grew up rather "privileged" and just want something to whine about.

Have you ever:

-Been stopped walking to your car after getting off a commuter bus from work because you "fit a description" of something you couldn't possibly have done for the simple fact that you were at work during the time the crime was commited?

-Had a cop drive through your neighborhood and tell you to "find another place to hang out" when you're standing in your own driveway?

-Had the police called on you by your neighbors because they said they saw a black guy outside (how does that even justify them coming out?)

-Watched your friends get stomped out by a police officer seemingly only for being born in the wrong shade of skin?

-Had neighbors come to their door and ask ignorant questions like, "Can I help you?" in an aggressive tone because you decided that you wanted to talk a walk at night time? I see other folks do it all the time. Why are they not harassed?

-Had police tell you that you're giving them attitude and try to make life harder on you when you calmly ask them questions about why you're being detained which is WELL within your rights to do?

I'd imagine that that doesn't happen to the average white person. And I'm a fairly well to do "minority". 

Let's not be silly.


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## The Reverend (Dec 6, 2015)

lemeker said:


> Of all the hashtag stuff going on is the #blacklivesmatter. This is simply b.s. to me because guess what people.
> 
> ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!



Just wanted to say that #blacklivesmatter should be read as "Black lives matter, as well." Or even "Black lives matter as much as yours."

Obviously, all lives matter. Nobody questions that. We're saying that our lives matter too, because it sure as hell doesn't feel like they did. I won't derail this thread, just wanted to clear that up for y'all.

As far as the OP's question, I think hashtag activism is a good thing. I'm a millennial, and my grandparents were hippies. Well, they weren't, but they're Boomers, who definitely were hippies. And now they're all conservatives, or so the stereotype goes. Does that mean all the things they fought for don't matter? Nope. Even the guys who were in it for easy sex helped the larger ideas surge forward. The same thing is happening here. For the first time in my 27 years I can have a conversation with white acquaintances and have them understand some of the things I'm talking about without trying to define vague terms and concepts, largely because most of us are aware of things like privilege now. 

Trigger warnings seem really overly-sensitive at first, until I think about how the generations before mine used to cope with trauma. How many Vietnam vets had severe issues that sometimes destroyed their lives because they "manned up" and kept it inside? I'm not saying complete avoidance is healthy, because it's not. I'm suggesting that maybe it's better to err on the side of over-sensitivity or political correctness (_within reason_) than to continue to mess with people's heads.


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## JeffFromMtl (Dec 6, 2015)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Most of the times I see someone complaining that people are too sensitive, that person is just upset that people don't like it when he's an asshole to everyone anymore.
> 
> I mean, I understand that some people _are_ too sensitive, but on the whole, is it really a bad thing to want people not to be dicks? I think the hyper-sensitive trigger-warning kids are still an extreme (albeit vocal) minority, so what are people really complaining about? It's often just people seeing stuff like Jeff's extreme example of a Yoga clinic being shut down because practicing something Indian in a British commonwealth is cultural appropriation, and using it as an excuse to tell _everyone_ how whiny they are and how they need to just suck it up, as a thinly veiled disguise for trying to excuse themselves for being generally insufferable human beings.



Yeah, it really is the extreme, attention-hungry ones who ruin a good thing, give it a bad image and leave a really ....ty taste in people's mouths about it. I'm 100% in agreement with that.

And even if what I've posted on here has given anyone the impression that I'm one of those angry libertarians, I'm just trying to look at the subject at hand from an objective standpoint and analyze it. The underdog will, in just about any situation or condition, have my support. I hate having to clarify this and I'm sure a number of people who have been around here and who know me can attest to it, but it's also a product of the nature of communicating over social media.


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## AxeHappy (Dec 6, 2015)

I think it is just silly to say stuff like, "All of this overly sensitive stuff is bull....." 

Or, maybe that isn't silly but grouping things like #BlackLivesMatter into the same category as College Safe Spaces? ....ing ridiculous. There are serious issues out there that should be dealt with and exposure is an important part of that. Spreading the word, letting people who already think that way bind together, perhaps getting people who never gave it a thought something to think about, and hopefully creating a shift in society that eventually (I would prefer sooner rather than later...but that seems unlikely) leads to an improved quality of life for all. Social media is a wonderful tool for this. 

Then, there are those college safe spaces bull..... The entire point of college is to expose yourself to new ideas and be challenged. If you leave thinking the same as you did going in then the college has completely and utterly failed. Likely, some of the ideas presented to you will be offensive to you. Maybe just at first, or maybe they really are horrible ideas and the whole point was to get you to logically think through the idea and be able to explain why it is a horrible idea, instead of just knee jerk reactions. 

I do think that trigger warnings are absolutely bull.... for the overwhelming majority of people.


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## Eliguy666 (Dec 6, 2015)

AxeHappy said:


> I do think that trigger warnings are absolutely bull.... for the overwhelming majority of people.



I don't know if I'd say an overwhelming majority, given that PTSD is so dang common (and all other manners of trauma struggles), but definitely a majority.


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## lemeker (Dec 7, 2015)

The Reverend said:


> Just wanted to say that #blacklivesmatter should be read as "Black lives matter, as well." Or even "Black lives matter as much as yours."



This is the point I was trying make with that comments. In some cases, I'd say more than mine. 



Konfyouzd- I don't think all lives matter means were missing the point. Even as a white male, it indeed me upsets me greatly that .... like this happens still. It shouldn't, its not right, it's not fair. Growing up in southern Georgia, I did see a lot of what you mentioned happen to friends I knew, and they were stand up people. I felt horrible for them too. 

I respect your post though man, I really do.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

I think to say it simply in response to another similar movement IS missing the point, but we can just agree to disagree there. The fact that someone actually feels that needs to be said IS missing the point. It seems petty to just throw it out there when the original meaning had nothing to do with supremacy. Again, at what point did anyone ever say that other lives do NOT matter? It's been explained more than 3 times in this very thread already.


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## lemeker (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> It seems petty to just throw it out there when the original meaning had nothing to do with supremacy.



That wasn't my intent, if that's what you think I mean. In fact, its the exact opposite. 

I honestly wish there were no racial divides in this country or world for that matter.....that's why that bothers me. You'd figure we'd over this by now. What has happened lately is disgusting in every way shape and form.

not looking to piss any one off here, just how I feel.


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## lelandbowman3 (Dec 7, 2015)

Watch The Green Inferno. It brings modern activism in a seriously needed critical light.
In all of its Eli Roth horrificness, it's pretty good in what it's actually about.


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## Promit (Dec 7, 2015)

Word &#8216;Millennials&#8217; Forced Into Headline To Boost Pageviews


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## ghostred7 (Dec 7, 2015)

Eliguy666 said:


> **snip**
> 
> it's probably because they've actually had significant experience with it or know people who do.



Personally, I think it's perfectly OK for someone that has actually experienced something complain/protest/whatever.... it's all the bandwagon people that chap my ass.

20 year-old African Americans screaming for reparations for ancestors they've never had and certainly wasn't alive for themselves (no lineage to slaves), Christians crying about a "war on Christmas" that doesn't exist...especially ones that have never researched most of their used Christmas traditions origins, etc. This is the type of crap that irritates me. The people that kick & scream for no damn reason. 

As for BLM they're starting to seem no different than the KKK in their actions and both groups should be officially labeled as domestic terror organizations.


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

A man could be given a brand new Ferrari, infinite wealth, free guitars from Schecter for life, and Sophia Vergara as his girl forever and he would still find a way to complain about how is not emperor of mankind and find a way to blame it on the Eskimo people for oppressing him.

People just want to find stuff to complain about.


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## canuck brian (Dec 7, 2015)

Maybe it's got something to do with the internet having given everyone a very loud and possibly equal voice to the point where some people need to feel like they deserve special treatment - special snowflakes - to stand out? Playing the victim, no matter how ridiculous it is, will eventually get the attention and possible sympathy from some people. (Just hypothesizing)


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## vilk (Dec 7, 2015)

Hollowway said:


> Well, that didn't last long!
> 
> But I'm on the fence about this one. On the one hand I get super sick of hearing Christians and white men say they are being persecuted as a minority, but at the same time there are a lot of people who are actual victims. I do like that people are standing up for themselves, rather than just taking a beating and staying quiet (figuratively speaking), but I don't much like first world whining, either. I guess for me it's just a matter of degree. But I 100% agree that kids should be taught the difference between being a winner and being a participant. I hate kids sports where "everyone gets a medal." I think that teaches a false version of hard-work-leads-to-success.



Just wanted to say that in most children's sports it isn't hard-work-leads-to-success... at least to my memory... there was the team that has one kid that's naturally more athletic than any of the other kids on the field and if you have that kid on your team then you win every time.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Or there's a coach that manages to get a stacked team every time... But everyone still gets a damn trophy. I remember sometimes trying to throw mine away because I saw it as a reminder of not being good enough to win. My mom used to be upset with me for that. In retrospect I don't think it was because she thought I should still be proud of myself, but because she effectively paid for that cheap little piece of sh!t... Childrens' sports leagues can be expensive.


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## ncfiala (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm 42 and I have no idea what a millennial is (nor do I care), but what I do know is that people, particularly young people, are way too sensitive and way too entitled these days. I have no idea how some of them will even function in life. Life can be a real bitch and you have to deal with it.

I cope with how ....ty the world can be with humor. I will make jokes about anything. Nothing is off-limits. If people don't like it then they can .... off.


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## canuck brian (Dec 7, 2015)




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## scottro202 (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> In retrospect I don't think it was because she thought I should still be proud of myself, but because she effectively paid for that cheap little piece of sh!t... Childrens' sports leagues can be expensive.



Nail. Head. Boom. 

As someone who grew up with "participation" trophies with sports as a kid, I never actually saw them as trophies per se, because everybody got them  I did display them in my bedroom as a kid and all that, but more as a memento of the season or whatever. Which, if childrens sports leagues will insist on giving out trophies to everyone, is probably the healthy attitude to have.

PLUS, if you actually won that year.... TWO TROPHIES!!!


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## Mike (Dec 7, 2015)

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been touched on, but I like this illustration so I thought I'd share it.


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## The Reverend (Dec 7, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> I'm 42 and I have no idea what a millennial is (nor do I care), but what I do know is that people, particularly young people, are way too sensitive and way too entitled these days. I have no idea how some of them will even function in life. Life can be a real bitch and you have to deal with it.
> 
> I cope with how ....ty the world can be with humor. I will make jokes about anything. Nothing is off-limits. If people don't like it then they can .... off.



Millennials are the young people you're talking about. People born in the 80s and 90s. 

I take issue with my generation being called entitled, though. We jumped through all the hoops we were told to by our parents, and y'all did such a great job parenting that it f--ked us. A Bachelor's degree is mostly useless in a lot of fields. I make more right now than I would've had I finished mine doing skilled labor. Why did y'all encourage us to do well in school and get college degrees? Competition for jobs has increased. Unpaid internships pay us in experience, although those student loans come due six months after you stop going. We take on more debt than any generation before us because tuition has increased so much. We work longer hours than the generations before us did at our age, for less pay when you figure in inflation. Basically, we're the end result of a generation of parents getting it completely right, and the system not being able to cope.

As for joking about things, I think it's fair game. I think satire and self-deprecation and really most forms of humor do more good than they do harm, although again within reason.


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## asher (Dec 7, 2015)

Growing up as a child of the nineties, I have yet to meet a *single* person who gave a toss about participation trophies, despite it being the go-to example for this stuff.

Kids know what's up.


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## flint757 (Dec 7, 2015)

Frankly, it was embarrassing going up to pick up your trophy at a trophy ceremony for essentially losing (that was a mouth full). 

What I did like about it as a kid is the ceremonies were always held at places like Chuck E Cheese or Gattiland or Peter Pipers Pizza, etc. where we got to eat bad food and play games. The trophy was completely secondary to why anyone wanted to be there.


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

The Reverend said:


> Millennials are the young people you're talking about. People born in the 80s and 90s.
> 
> I take issue with my generation being called entitled, though. We jumped through all the hoops we were told to by our parents, and y'all did such a great job parenting that it f--ked us. A Bachelor's degree is mostly useless in a lot of fields. I make more right now than I would've had I finished mine doing skilled labor. Why did y'all encourage us to do well in school and get college degrees? Competition for jobs has increased. Unpaid internships pay us in experience, although those student loans come due six months after you stop going. We take on more debt than any generation before us because tuition has increased so much. We work longer hours than the generations before us did at our age, for less pay when you figure in inflation. Basically, we're the end result of a generation of parents getting it completely right, and the system not being able to cope.
> 
> As for joking about things, I think it's fair game. I think satire and self-deprecation and really most forms of humor do more good than they do harm, although again within reason.



This is why I left the corporate world and went out and started my own company when I was 21 and now I am making a good living at 24 with plenty of room for growth. I saw this happening in high school when every damn parent, teacher, and politician said everyone has to go to college. (I am a hypocrite since I currently am in college )

You got to find a way to outsmart or go around the system sometimes. There are still plenty of ways to be successful. I think the problem is that our generation was told to do x, y and z to be successful, however we were not taught to think outside the box and follow our own path.

If people want to be successful in this modern day and age, they need to clear their own path, as the old ones are too worn down to work anymore. 

If it were up to my parents I would be working for the federal government in some boring and stressful job like they did for the rest of my life. Pay and benefits were good but god to they and their employees/ coworkers hate it. Now I own a landscape and lawn care company that provides me with a good living that I also look forward to work at every day. Plus I have fun toys to play with every day and meet good people. 

Point of my ramblings- we can still be successful, we just need to find our new ways of doing so.


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## metaljohn (Dec 7, 2015)

Church2224 said:


> A man could be given a brand new Ferrari, infinite wealth, free guitars from Schecter for life, and Sophia Vergara as his girl forever and he would still find a way to complain about how is not emperor of mankind and find a way to blame it on the Eskimo people for oppressing him.
> 
> People just want to find stuff to complain about.



I'd definitely complain about Sofia Vergara not being my girl. Maybe if I complained loud and long enough, she'd marry me.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Church2224 said:


> This is why I left the corporate world and went out and started my own company when I was 21 and now I am making a good living at 24 with plenty of room for growth. I saw this happening in high school when every damn parent, teacher, and politician said everyone has to go to college. (I am a hypocrite since I currently am in college )
> 
> You got to find a way to outsmart or go around the system sometimes. There are still plenty of ways to be successful. I think the problem is that our generation was told to do x, y and z to be successful, however we were not taught to think outside the box and follow our own path.
> 
> ...



This, dude...

So many people our age think. "I has piece of paper... I can has job now?"

Here's the problem with a lot of them:

1. They got a degree in something they were passionate about--which is great--but it's often something that isn't in high demand. Do you know how many poli sci majors I watched STRUGGLE to find jobs, but they LOVE politics so spending $100k+ to not make half that when you get out is worth it, right?

2. A lot of them didn't retain HALF the knowledge provided to them. I see that in the workplace all the time. The simplest of things just fly right over their heads and I think, "Did you not do this in school? I did in HIGH SCHOOL."

That piece of paper guarantees you nothing if you don't actually understand anything. Anyone can memorize answers long enough to jot them down on a test and that seems to be what a large portion of people do. I saw this tutoring people in subjects like math and programming...


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## flint757 (Dec 7, 2015)

Even if you do pay attention a bachelors rarely delves deep enough that you don't have to learn even more outside the classroom for what you learned in the classroom to be useful in a job setting (if you're actually working in your field that is). At my school they only touched the surface on most programming languages (mostly beginner level and some intermediate) and when you need to program for an actual job you really need more advanced knowledge than that. A lot of schools are simply behind on the curriculum in general IMO.

The situation as a whole is something that has been developing probably since the 70's. We've slowly became a credit based society so things got more expensive because companies knew that we'll just charge it and pay it off later. Same thing is happening with the cost of education, not including all the political BS that has stifled it as well. Curriculum's are old, classrooms are too big, teachers are underpaid, and we've become such a society run by debt that nothing is affordable anymore. The same thing happened with healthcare once insurance became pretty much necessary (not with 'Obamacare', but like 30 or so years ago). As soon as it became the norm doctors visits without insurance doubled in price practically. 

Back on to the subject of education, loans becoming the norm has led to everyone paying for college on a credit card making it a viable option for everyone in the short term. This had the trickle effect of making it a minimum requirement for most jobs, even if it makes no sense, which has created a system of too many diplomas, not enough jobs that pay to cover the debt (or make it worth it in the first place in some cases), a general culture of debt, and ultimately leading to schools being overcapacity which leads to people paying more for an overall worse education.


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 7, 2015)

This whole thread is starting to confirm a feeling I've developed over the past 6 years raising my daughters.

That feeling is that I want to teach them "Pursue what you love and fvck what anyone else says."

Being in the Air Force- which has a huge emphasis on getting education/degrees while you're in, I see too many people getting degrees to "check the box" for promotion consideration.

For instance, I'm currently working on a degree in IT Management. If I were to be honest I'm not overly interested in that degree- but to get a degree in what I would want (music, literature, or some other art) would be met with inquisitive looks because it wouldn't be synergistic with my AF job.

I don't want to pass that on to my daughters- this sense that they have to feel pressured to check certain boxes off for anything other than what they genuinely want to do.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

flint757 said:


> Even if you do pay attention a bachelors rarely delves deep enough that you don't have to learn even more outside the classroom for what you learned in the classroom to be useful in a job setting (if you're actually working in your field that is). At my school they only touched the surface on most programming languages (mostly beginner level and some intermediate) and when you need to program for an actual job you really need more advanced knowledge than that. A lot of schools are simply behind on the curriculum in general IMO.
> 
> The situation as a whole is something that has been developing probably since the 70's. We've slowly became a credit based society so things got more expensive because companies knew that we'll just charge it and pay it off later. Same thing is happening with the cost of education, not including all the political BS that has stifled it as well. Curriculum's are old, classrooms are too big, teachers are underpaid, and we've become such a society run by debt that nothing is affordable anymore. The same thing happened with healthcare once insurance became pretty much necessary (not with 'Obamacare', but like 30 or so years ago). As soon as it became the norm doctors visits without insurance doubled in price practically.
> 
> Back on to the subject of education, loans becoming the norm has led to everyone paying for college on a credit card making it a viable option for everyone in the short term. This had the trickle effect of making it a minimum requirement for most jobs, even if it makes no sense, which has created a system of too many diplomas, not enough jobs that pay to cover the debt (or make it worth it in the first place in some cases), a general culture of debt, and ultimately leading to schools being overcapacity which leads to people paying more for an overall worse education.


As a programmer you should be expected to continue learning. They only touched on things with programming languages in my school as well. But they also taught us to use our imagination as far as how any technology with which we're presented can be applied. At the same time I'm lucky enough to live in an area where they're hiring developers/software engineers left and right. Perhaps I should "check my privilege". 

At any rate, here's how I've done it... I interview. And I often bomb a lot of them. BUT... I already have a job, so eff it... So when I interview I just find out what other jobs want and what they're willing to pay for certain skills. I learn and subsequently learn to apply ANYTHING they asked me about that I bombed on that interview on my own applications at my current job site. Next time I interview I'm ready for that ass... 

Eventually it gets to a point that I've talked to so many different companies that use so many different technologies and strategies and I've at least tried them all. Suddenly I'm looking mighty sexy on the job market. 

Ask me how many times they've even asked me what level degree I have. Bachelors, Masters, whatever... They don't care as much as people seem to think. I make more money than the man who put me through school and I've been in the job market for less than 10 years. It's about who you know and how hard you're willing to work to learn what you have to learn.

Degree be damned once you pass undergrad (depending on your field).


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

Funny you mentioned debt, it is the reason why many things are increasing in pricing lately. 

We use equipment made by Exmark in our business. When we first got into the business, prices were fair and respectable. In some cases pretty good. Now, in some areas, they are outrageous (our distributors give us great deals so we still use them, plus the damn machines never die and Exmark gives us fleet discounts). In some cases it is over $14,000.00 for a lawn mower. Nothing has really changed, but the prices keep increasing year after year. I finally asked what the deal is to a product rep. Apparently so many people keep buying the machines on credit and financing them, but a good portion of them cannot pay it off. The credit companies like Sheffield Financial and Syncrony try to get what they lost from Exmark and as a result Exmark needs to make that up some how so the responsible consumers pay for it. This is not just Exmark but other companies in our business such as Scag, Toro, Hustler...

People buy stuff on credit, cannot pay it off, and the responsible consumers pay the price. 

Yay debt...... not. I know this is on lawn mowers, but still applies to a lot of things.


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> This whole thread is starting to confirm a feeling I've developed over the past 6 years raising my daughters.
> 
> That feeling is that I want to teach them "Pursue what you love and fvck what anyone else says."
> 
> .




That's how I have been living for the past two years. I am a much happier man because of that


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## flint757 (Dec 7, 2015)

Church2224 said:


> Funny you mentioned debt, it is the reason why many things are increasing in pricing lately.
> 
> We use equipment made by Exmark in our business. When we first got into the business, prices were fair and respectable. In some cases pretty good. Now, in some areas, they are outrageous (our distributors give us great deals so we still use them, plus the damn machines never die and Exmark gives us fleet discounts). In some cases it is over $14,000.00 for a lawn mower. Nothing has really changed, but the prices keep increasing year after year. I finally asked what the deal is to a product rep. Apparently so many people keep buying the machines on credit and financing them, but a good portion of them cannot pay it off. The credit companies like Sheffield Financial and Syncrony try to get what they lost from Exmark and as a result Exmark needs to make that up some how so the responsible consumers pay for it. This is not just Exmark but other companies in our business such as Scag, Toro, Hustler...
> 
> ...



It applies to nearly everything and every field nowadays. Credit disrupts supply and demand artificially increasing demand causing price hikes; and like you said as well, someone has to pay the credit companies.


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

This is why I only buy houses, property and vehicles on credit these days...

Ok I am a hypocrite again because I financed the lawnmower for my house, but the payments were low enough and I needed a better credit rating


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## flint757 (Dec 7, 2015)

That's the other half of it as well, you're expected to use credit despite how it negatively affects the economy.


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

flint757 said:


> That's the other half of it as well, you're expected to use credit despite how it negatively affects the economy.



If managed it can be alright. Obviously in this day and age no one wants to drop $200k on a house or 20-40k on a car in one sitting, nor is that really practical. We also have been thinking about getting a line of credit for my business so it can help expand, and that is how many businesses operate if they know their numbers well. However some people think that credit is infinite and they can put off paying things off, and that is when people's stupidity takes over and screws it all up. 

Any way back to people complaining about whatever.... What were we talkin about again?


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## BornToLooze (Dec 7, 2015)

lemeker said:


> ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!



No they don't. There are some truly evil people out there that definitely need to be shot. There's no way you can tell me that someone like a terrorist or a child rapists' life really matters?


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## Church2224 (Dec 7, 2015)

BornToLooze said:


> No they don't. There are some truly evil people out there that definitely need to be shot. There's no way you can tell me that someone like a terrorist or a child rapists' life really matters?



... I think that is kind of implied because it is a fairly general statement and is more directed as equality among races and not bec use of some one's horrible actions....

Not a Colonel Statement of course...


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## flint757 (Dec 8, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Here it is...
> 
> https://theoxytocinchronicle.wordpr...on-cry-baby-why-millennials-are-a-fking-joke/



The one thing I agree with, while simultaneously disagreeing, is that while teachers have maybe given up, our education system early on in our primary education is setup with literally no bell curve whatsoever. If you made an A you got the correct grade, if you got a B you did okay, if you got a C you did poorly and if you failed you didn't try at all. That's not how a grading curve is supposed to work. An A is supposed to be exceptional, and B and C are supposed to be considered average, but the system is setup that even schools expect all students to go to university which means everyone needs to be able to qualify, rather than sending some people to vocational school. Which leads into the things I mentioned earlier about credit/loans and about employers expecting a degree for jobs that don't require you to have a degree to do the job and so forth. This issue is complex because it's got little fingers that spread through so many parts of our society it is near impossible to fix or pinpoint the lynch pin to the problem. Each step of the process is so heavily influenced by the step before it that either they all need to change simultaneously or there's going to be some serious growing pains in the system before everything settles. 

My point in saying this, and where I disagree with the author, is this isn't solely the student or teachers fault or necessarily even doing. They are but a single puzzle piece in a larger system that contribute to the larger problem.


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## Bekanor (Dec 8, 2015)

Too many people needs helmets for everything these days. People need to deal with being offended, not insulate themselves from all possible sources.

As for baby boomers calling Gen Y entitled. You can't own 6 investment properties and write off Gen Y's complaints that it's too hard to get into the housing market as "laziness" and "entitlement". You artificially inflated that market by buying 6 ....ing houses and renting them out to Gen Y at a ridiculous price. "Back in my day I worked hard and bought my first house for $20,000". In my day I make just "ok" money working my ass off for a tech company, getting into the housing market is a minimum $450,000 investment for me, and that buys me an ok 2 bedroom house in the middle of East Stabton. My day is what your generation made it, you myopic old ..... 

Similarly, you can't bandy about terms like "entitled" when you sit at the top of the corporate ladder and stick a "minimum 5 years industry experience" on a graduate position. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of rich old assholedom. Please die and free up resources.

Just so we're clear, "you" is a reference to a straw-man I made up to represent baby boomers who bitch about Gen Y, not a personal shot at OP.


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## UnderTheSign (Dec 8, 2015)

Baby boomers caused a lot of the issues around these days and not to mention... They're also often the parents to many millennials they so love to complain about. It's their fault, damnit!


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## Rev2010 (Dec 8, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I found an article about this on Facebook the other day basically calling millenials a bunch of cry babies because every single time anything happens you end up with a bunch of butthurt adults trying to turn hashtags into a cause.



This current generation _is_ turning into a bunch of cry babies. Everyone is offended by everything it's gotten so ridiculous. It also seems to be heavily driven by the media. it's like the media has an agenda to make everything no one has even paid attention to out to be a big problem and tell everyone how wrong a persons actions or comments were. I liked the recent episode of South Park where PC Principle tries to tell Jimmy he can't use the word "retarded" in the school newspaper, it's a good example of how far we're taking this.

As for special little snowflake... I'll tell you what bugs me. I'm a tremendous animal lover, and I've donated to no-kill shelters and such and rescued animals that need serious medical treatment for the injuries suffered in their abuse. What bugs me is every single person that adopts an animal is now using the term "rescue". I see it on Facebook constantly every day. "I rescued little Chloe here". Uhh no.... you adopted little Chloe. You didn't save her from her abusers, or lower down from a helicopter to pull her out of the East River (something my step-father actually did when he worked for the ASPCA). People do this to feel better about themselves, but why aren't people that adopt a child now saying they "rescued" the child? Soon enough it will happen I suppose.


Rev.


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## narad (Dec 8, 2015)

Rev2010 said:


> People do this to feel better about themselves, but why aren't people that adopt a child now saying they "rescued" the child? Soon enough it will happen I suppose.



Whelp, if you prevent that child from sleeping in a cage, stacked on other cages with other children in them, where they stay for a majority of the day with very little joy or companionship...then I'm going to allow it


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## Rev2010 (Dec 8, 2015)

narad said:


> Whelp, if you prevent that child from sleeping in a cage, stacked on other cages with other children in them, where they stay for a majority of the day with very little joy or companionship...then I'm going to allow it



Not all shelters operate that way. There are many modern, more progressive and caring, shelters these days have day play rooms for the dogs and only lock them up at night. Some even have outdoor areas for the animals.

But sure, call it as you want. But let me ask... if you BUY a puppy from a store do you still call it a rescue? I mean, they _are_ in cages all day.


Rev.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 8, 2015)

Rev2010 said:


> Not all shelters operate that way. There are many modern, more progressive and caring, shelters these days have day play rooms for the dogs and only lock them up at night. Some even have outdoor areas for the animals.
> 
> But sure, call it as you want. But let me ask... if you BUY a puppy from a store do you still call it a rescue? I mean, they _are_ in cages all day.
> 
> ...



The ones that the girl working the desk thinks are cute get to get out and roam around sometimes...


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## vilk (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm convinced people who grew up between the 20's and 70's have brain damage from lead exposure.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 8, 2015)

That's a big ass range.


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## Rev2010 (Dec 8, 2015)

vilk said:


> I'm convinced people who grew up between the 20's and 70's have brain damage from lead exposure.



And the one's that grew up afterwards even more severe brain damaged due to insecticides, nuclear radiation, cow growth hormones, and more severe and more diverse types of pollution.

.... and iPhones 


Rev.


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## vilk (Dec 8, 2015)

Well, I mean, in defense of my statement, lead is proven to cause psychological issues. Those things Rev's said are said to cause cancer. 

Didn't you guys watch Cosmos with Neil DeGrasse Tyson?


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## narad (Dec 8, 2015)

Rev2010 said:


> Not all shelters operate that way. There are many modern, more progressive and caring, shelters these days have day play rooms for the dogs and only lock them up at night. Some even have outdoor areas for the animals.
> 
> But sure, call it as you want. But let me ask... if you BUY a puppy from a store do you still call it a rescue? I mean, they _are_ in cages all day.
> 
> ...



I just think dogs need families. Anyone that adopts a puppy from some facility where they're basically "ownerless" to a home and a family they're actually apart of - I feel that is rescuing in some sense, given how heavily dogs prioritize that. 

But I get what you're saying. I imagine your annoyance with the sue of "rescue" is dead-on with my annoyance with the use of "heroes"


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## flint757 (Dec 8, 2015)

The word hero practically has no real meaning anymore. We call people hero's who have done .... all to earn that title on a regular basis nowadays.


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## Rev2010 (Dec 8, 2015)

vilk said:


> Well, I mean, in defense of my statement, lead is proven to cause psychological issues. Those things Rev's said are said to cause cancer.



Well I was just kidding, as I took it that you were. Obviously not every home had peeling paint on the floor that toddlers were munching on. Plus there's an endless list of other things available these days that can cause health issues I didn't even list, since it was just a joke 



vilk said:


> Didn't you guys watch Cosmos with Neil DeGrasse Tyson?



I read the book Cosmos that Carl Sagan wrote. Actually just lent it to my mother telling her she should read it. I also own the original Cosmos series on DVD and have watched it all as well as almost all episodes of Tyson's Cosmos. Read Pale Blue Dot as well, and Contact is my favorite movie (read the book too but the movie was better). Huge Sagan/Druyan fan here 


Rev.


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## Explorer (Dec 8, 2015)

vilk said:


> Those things Rev's said are said to cause cancer.



There's a power in Rev's words which causes cancer?

How does that wor... Aagh! My eyes!


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## vilk (Dec 8, 2015)

let me guess you were born between 1920 and 1970


Also I wasn't talking as much about paint and toys as much as I was talking about car emissions.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm on the fence with this issue. I've seen horrible and annoying things from both sides of the fence. On the one hand, I deal with people that make my skin crawl regarding their outright disgusting comments on LGBT people and especially on transgender people almost on the daily. There should be more discussion on these topics and there's a real need for it, given the higher suicide rates. That said, when I see this kind of stuff discussed on places like tumblr (*shudders*), it's like people take their frustrations out in the most hyperbolic ways and there's a weird groupthink that everything in life must kowtow to their personal "safe place". Life just doesn't work that way, and they haven't gotten that message into their thick skulls yet. People don't always say things out of malice, but rather from ignorance and that it's the context of what people are saying that matters most. 

So while I'm not a fan of the article in the OP, I'm not saying that it doesn't have a point either. Moderation is the spice of life and I feel people have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you, nor is anyone expected to like everything everyone says/does.


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## ghostred7 (Dec 8, 2015)




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## asher (Dec 8, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> The ones that the girl working the desk thinks are cute get to get out and roam around sometimes...



So, all of them?


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## lemeker (Dec 8, 2015)

vilk said:


> I'm convinced people who grew up between the 20's and 70's have brain damage from lead exposure.



I knew there was something wrong with me.....


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