# The 22/24 fret war : solution found !



## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

I'll post this in Luthiery for now, might have to be moved, the topic is a bit weird so I don't know. whatever.


So among guitarists, there are these two groups : those who get 22 fret guitars because of "that" neck pickup sound, and those who sacrifice "that" sound so they can have two full octaves per string. now how about having BOTH ?

I mathed a bit on this problem and I found sort of a solution. I measured the distance between neck and bridge pickups on my M-50, which is a 24.75" scale guitar with 22 frets. Then I wanted to see, if I had two humbuckers and 24 frets, what scale length I'd need to have the same spacing between both pickups as on my M-50. The result turned out to be... 29,3 inches ! if I had measured the distance between pickups on a 25,5" scale guitar, I think it would be pretty similar, just a bit longer, but also in thz 29-30 inch area.

Conclusion : if you want the 22-fret guitar neck humbucker sound on a 24-fret neck, get a LONG baritone scale . Schecter make a 30" scale 6-string 

I have no fucking clue if this is gonna help anyone, but I know now that I want Eth's ViK (it has a 29,25 inch scale)


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## Northern (Nov 23, 2012)

Wouldn't this do the opposite of what you want, as proportionally to the length of the string the neck pickup is now even further back?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 23, 2012)

So what you're saying is that you think that a solution to those who don't like a pickup a few centimeters further from a given spot is to increase the scale by several inches?  

I will say, all the tones that I've try to get with 22-fret neck pickups were the inverse of those from the longer scaled (28"+) guitars I've owned. 

Some real numbers would be kind of cool.


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## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So what you're saying is that you think that a solution to those who don't like a pickup a few centimeters further from a given spot is to increase the scale by several inches?
> 
> I will say, all the tones that I've try to get with 22-fret neck pickups were the inverse of those from the longer scaled (28"+) guitars I've owned.
> 
> Some real numbers would be kind of cool.




hey, it's definitely possible that I based it off a wrong idea. what I THOUGHT so far is that what makes "that" sound on 22 fret guitars is the distance between both pickups that places the neck pickup at a specific spot. if that's wrong, my thing doesn't work. if I have to use another distance, just tell me which is important. I'm a math student, I work with numbers and ideas, but I hate 22 fret guitars.

Also, I thought I'd cut the maths out here because I doubt many guys on the forum like math or would be willing to read AND understand the whole shit.


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## Superwoodle (Nov 23, 2012)

I don't quite think it works that way, at all. 
A 30" scale guitar with 24 frets is not going to sound like a 25" scale guitar with 22 frets. 
You still have to deal with tension increasing and changing gauges, etc.
EDIT: If you fret a 30"ish on the 2 fret then you practically have a 25" 22 fret guitar with the pickup under the "24th fret" area


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## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

Superwoodle said:


> I don't quite think it works that way, at all.
> A 30" scale guitar with 24 frets is not going to sound like a 25" scale guitar with 22 frets.
> You still have to deal with tension increasing and changing gauges, etc.



what people look for on 22 fret guitars (AFAIK) is the fact that the spot where you have to pick for most pinched harmonics will be directly under the neck pickup, which is determined by distances. I'm not talking tension here, this would be another topic.

I opened this thread with my basic idea, which might be wrong, but just so we could discuss on what makes what sound how, and if there's a way to combine things with or without compromise. which is also why I opened the thread in this section instead of ERG or whatnot


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## Winspear (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah I'm pretty sure a 24 fret pickup is always going to sound like a 24 fret pickup because it is proportionally the same distance along the string, right?


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## skeels (Nov 23, 2012)

Nagash said:


> hey,
> 
> Also, I thought I'd cut the maths out here because I doubt many guys on the forum like math or would be willing to read AND understand the whole shit.



Are you kidding?
Do you know how many of these guys are engineering students?


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## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

well...

the distance from the neck pickup to the last fret will always be about the same, regardless of 22 or 24 fret board. question is, if this distance is the important one, or if it's another one. I took the spacing between both pickups. might need some pro luthier input here... ?


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## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

skeels said:


> Are you kidding?
> Do you know how many of these guys are engineering students?



well, none of the djent kids is studying engineering sciences... and no, I have no fucking clue how many % of SSO people are


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## skeels (Nov 23, 2012)

Oh... Well neither do I.

I guess I just thought it was a lot.

I mean I like numbers too and I'm a lumberjack.

I think the tricky thing is That the end result of these equations loaded with tons of variables- From strings scale length to pick up position to harmonic location- Is a non quantitative subjective term called "tone".


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## Nag (Nov 23, 2012)

well sure, depends on what you want from the guitar in the end.

here's my mindset for many things about guitar : I hate compromise. so like, there are guys fighting on 22 VS 24 frets, humbucker VS singlecoil, standard vs dropped, etc etc etc

if there's a way to get both sides without much of a compromise, I'm on 

well ok maybe I shoud have titled the thred "solution found ?" instead, hahahaha


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## Spike Spiegel (Nov 23, 2012)

NO 21 fret love?
Moar Fender


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## tedtan (Nov 23, 2012)

Nagash said:


> here's my mindset for many things about guitar : I hate compromise.


 
If it were possible to create a guitar that did everything for everyone, it would have been done by now and that would be the only guitar anyone plays. All others would be irrelevant. Unfortunately, compromise is necessary in the real world.

The thing with 22 frets guitars is the neck pickup tone. Unfortunately, changing the scale length will change the tone more than keeping a certain distance between the pickups, so you'll never get that 22 fret neck pickup sound people are looking for on a longer scale guitar.


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## Thep (Nov 23, 2012)

A 22 fret humbucker sounds different because it sits under a harmonic node. The scale doesn't matter, the 24th fret will be 1/4 the length of the string.


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## infernalservice (Nov 23, 2012)

You could just compromise and get one of those 23 fret us masters guitars.


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## tedtan (Nov 23, 2012)

Thep said:


> A 22 fret humbucker sounds different because it sits under a harmonic node. The scale doesn't matter, the 24th fret will be 1/4 the length of the string.


 
I've heard this explanation before, but the harmonic node exists only for certain notes (open string, 12th fret, etc.). It doesn't have any harmonic nodes on some other frets, so I don't know that this explains the effect. I think it has more to do with being located 1/4 of the distance from the bridge to the nut, the harmonic node on the open string being just a coincidence. But that's just a guess - I don't have any better explanation than anyone else.


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## b7string (Nov 23, 2012)

Thep said:


> A 22 fret humbucker sounds different because it sits under a harmonic node. The scale doesn't matter, the 24th fret will be 1/4 the length of the string.



This is correct. It has nothing to do with the scale length, but the relative placement of the pickup. Changing the scale length will change the tone, but the same "qualities" of the tone, eg that sort of scooped squeaky (really hard to describe, sorry!  ) effect you get on a 22 fret neck pup are purely to do with where it sits in that harmonic node. 







If you notice however, that the end of the fretboard does have a bit of space before the pickup starts, and perhaps a 23 fret guitar actually would be a decent compromise. As long as you were able to cram that pickup right up against the end of the fretboard, and keep the relative distance of that pickup from the nut the same, it should sound the same and at least give you another half step of bliss. Though, albeit you'd still be shy on the 2 octaves innevitably


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## tedtan (Nov 24, 2012)

b7string said:


> that sort of scooped squeaky (really hard to describe, sorry!  ) effect you get on a 22 fret neck pup are purely to do with where it sits in that harmonic node.


 
What I was getting at earlier is that the neck pickup location relative to the bridge is probably the reason for the tone, not the harmonic node itself. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I mean, if the harmonic node is the reason for the 22 fret neck pickup tone, why doesn't the tone change for all the notes that don't have a harmonic node at the 24th fret (and that's most notes)? The node itself seems like a nice, convenient way to locate the neck pickup position rather than the reason for the tone.


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## b7string (Nov 24, 2012)

tedtan said:


> What I was getting at earlier is that the neck pickup location relative to the bridge is probably the reason for the tone, not the harmonic node itself. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I mean, if the harmonic node is the reason for the 22 fret neck pickup tone, why doesn't the tone change for all the notes that don't have a harmonic node at the 24th fret (and that's most notes)? The node itself seems like a nice, convenient way to locate the neck pickup position rather than the reason for the tone.



I think you could be right, although because the node seems to fall in that exact sweet spot, we'll never know if it contributes at all or not because its impossible to isolate it


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## Phlegethon (Nov 24, 2012)

I would be one of those engineers that was mentioned. 

first thing: if there's a reasonable solution that involves less work than others, then I would choose that solution. there's a couple of options for 24 fret guitars that end up sounding so similar to 22 fret ones that I would rather pursue them. the options would be the dimarzio air norton and emg 85 (7 string equivalent:707) installed in the neck slot of a 24 fret guitar. both of these pickups to my ears in a 24 fret guitar sound just as thick and vocal as a guitar with a 22 fret neck, so if I wasn't beholden to a custom order's specs that would say otherwise then I'd default to this as one of my go to options

I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel unless that's the angle you want to work. in which case, reinvent the wheel ... if you don't like it, change it. and might as well post the math, would be interesting for me to see it at least. the ones that don't engineer might also be able to use it as well so it would still be good to see


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## Winspear (Nov 24, 2012)

Phlegethon said:


> I would be one of those engineers that was mentioned.
> 
> first thing: if there's a reasonable solution that involves less work than others, then I would choose that solution. there's a couple of options for 24 fret guitars that end up sounding so similar to 22 fret ones that I would rather pursue them. the options would be the dimarzio air norton and emg 85 (7 string equivalent:707) installed in the neck slot of a 24 fret guitar. both of these pickups to my ears in a 24 fret guitar sound just as thick and vocal as a guitar with a 22 fret neck, so if I wasn't beholden to a custom order's specs that would say otherwise then I'd default to this as one of my go to options
> 
> I wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel unless that's the angle you want to work. in which case, reinvent the wheel ... if you don't like it, change it. and might as well post the math, would be interesting for me to see it at least. the ones that don't engineer might also be able to use it as well so it would still be good to see



Yeah..honestly I'm not too sure about the whole 22/24 debate. Just get a fatter pickup 
I think I understand what Nagash did pretty simply:
http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/
If you enter 25.5, 24 frets, and look in the chart - you can see that the 24th fret is 6.3" from the bridge..so that's around where the pickup would be on a 22 fret guitar.
Then change the fret amount to 26, and extend the scale length until distance of 26th fret from bridge = 6.3" - you'll find 29" or thereabouts. 

But yeah - I'm pretty sure the tone of a pickup comes from where it is _proportionally_ along the string. 
Not related to where the harmonic node is because that's irrelevant..Just that people seem to like the pickup placed closer to 1/4 of the string like it is on 22 fret guitars.

I've seen guitars with pickups under the fretboard - there's an interesting idea..but impractical and it's not enough of an issue, in my mind. I'm with Phlegethon here.

If it was such an issue, I think I'd just get a 24 fret custom with a fat pickup and make a point to ask for the fretboard cut very short at the end and the pup right up against it. I'm no luthier but I'd imagine most fretboards I see could easily lose 3mm or so without issue.


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 24, 2012)

Ok, so this won't work. Reason: the 22 fret neck pickup sound is caused by the neck pickup being closer to the MIDDLE of the string. If you elongate the scale by two frets like that, you'll end up with a baritone guitar where the neck pickup is, again, further away from the middle of the string.

Also, adding two frets to a 25.5" scale guitar will give you 28.625" scale. Just sayin'


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## Scattered Messiah (Nov 24, 2012)

What might work (to an extend, that is), is installing the neck pickup "under" the fretboard, so it still sits in the right place, propotion wise (1/4 of the scale length away from the bridge itself).
Ideally you'd want to have a bolt on guitar for that, for maintenance purposes. and the fretboard might be too thick, so you'd have to thin it out a bit on these last few frets.
Plus then there is high fret access, as you cannot get as near to the fretboard as with a regular construction - the pickup&it's mounting would start to get in the way, I feel...

Edit: or you could "backmount" the neck pu, maybe? but that might result in a pretty unstable construction


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## Andromalia (Nov 24, 2012)

Some manufacturers do boards that leave space under it for the pickup, no ?


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## Quitty (Nov 24, 2012)

Andromalia said:


> Some manufacturers do boards that leave space under it for the pickup, no ?



This.
Should be even easier with all the new pickup tech coming up.


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## ILuvPillows (Nov 24, 2012)

Better solution.


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## Thep (Nov 24, 2012)

tedtan said:


> I've heard this explanation before, but the harmonic node exists only for certain notes (open string, 12th fret, etc.). It doesn't have any harmonic nodes on some other frets, so I don't know that this explains the effect. I think it has more to do with being located 1/4 of the distance from the bridge to the nut, the harmonic node on the open string being just a coincidence. But that's just a guess - I don't have any better explanation than anyone else.



At every half division of the string there will be a harmonic node: first at the 12th fret. Then the same node at the 5th and 24th fret.


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## tedtan (Nov 24, 2012)

Absolutely, a vibrating string doesn't just vibrate along it whole length, it vibrates in fractional portions as well. So the string actually vibrates in halves, thirds, fourths, fifths, etc. Each of these different vibrational patterns create harmonic nodes along the string's length as follows:





and






These vibratinal patterns not only create harmonic nodes, but also create the overtones that make one instrument sound different from the next. These overtones each vary in volume from instrument to instrument, due to differing construction methods, bridges, etc. and make a guitar not only sound different from a piano, but an unplugged Les Paul sound different from a Strat, a Universe, etc.


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## JStraitiff (Nov 24, 2012)

tedtan said:


> Absolutely, a vibrating string doesn't just vibrate along it whole length, it vibrates in fractional portions as well. So the string actually vibrates in halves, thirds, fourths, fifths, etc. Each of these different vibrational patterns create harmonic nodes along the string's length as follows:
> 
> View attachment 29018
> 
> ...



This..

And if that sweet spot for a neck pickup really makes so much difference its because of the location of that node. Its different for every scale length but one thing that always remains the same is that the 24th fret always lies right where you want that pickup. There is no way to physically avoid that fact because any changes you made would interfere with intonation.

I belong to the group who prefers 24 frets. The reasons are simple. Most applicable to this thread, I dont care about that tonal difference because to me its negligibly small. I own 22 fret guitars too but i dont find that to be a meaningful contribution to their tone.

Not to mention i dont think 24 vs 22 frets is really a big argument among guitarists. In fact im inclined to believe that the sole reason people choose 22 frets is based on other features of the guitar. I imagine that if people were offered the same guitars but one with 24 frets vs 22, the majority of people would choose the 24.


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## SirMyghin (Nov 25, 2012)

tedtan said:


> Absolutely, a vibrating string doesn't just vibrate along it whole length, it vibrates in fractional portions as well. So the string actually vibrates in halves, thirds, fourths, fifths, etc. Each of these different vibrational patterns create harmonic nodes along the string's length as follows:
> 
> View attachment 29018
> 
> ...



You got er, the only reason people like that particular relative placement more is... They like that particular relative placement more. All those arguments go out the door the second someone decided to play a fretted note  

It is all... relative 

Nice try OP, but it isn't pickup distance, it is relative to scale. Teds pictures illustrate what is going on pretty well. The only time I have seen distances recommended is from the bridge for sustainers. That is a bit different due to an energy in needing to be so far from the bridge, and whatnot.

I seem to like 24 fret guitars. Makes it easier to get to 22


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## luca9583 (Nov 25, 2012)

Another "solution", at least for clean sounds, to get the 22 fret neck sound on a 24 fret guitar would be to install a Variax system or Antares Auto Tune For Guitar kit with a hex pickup (placed either right next to the bridge or as part of the bridge itself) that would model the sound of that pickup placement (assuming that some of the pickup sounds those products model are based on 22 fret guitars)

Digital signal processing would be the closest you can get to that sound on a 24 fret guitar. 

I think there is a big difference in tone between the two pup placements, but these are simply facts that are part of guitar construction. For example, a 24 fret version of a Les Paul on the neck or middle position simply won't sound like a 22 fret Les Paul on those positions...it'll simply have its own sound.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2012)

skeels said:


> Are you kidding?
> Do you know how many of these guys are engineering students?



Or already engineers...


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2012)

Scattered Messiah said:


> What might work (to an extend, that is), is installing the neck pickup "under" the fretboard, so it still sits in the right place, propotion wise (1/4 of the scale length away from the bridge itself).
> Ideally you'd want to have a bolt on guitar for that, for maintenance purposes. and the fretboard might be too thick, so you'd have to thin it out a bit on these last few frets.
> Plus then there is high fret access, as you cannot get as near to the fretboard as with a regular construction - the pickup&it's mounting would start to get in the way, I feel...
> 
> Edit: or you could "backmount" the neck pu, maybe? but that might result in a pretty unstable construction



Haven't some ppl actually done that?


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## SirMyghin (Nov 25, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Or already engineers...



 Indeed.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/145478-engineers.html


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 25, 2012)

FWIW i can't remember hearing any difference between 22 and 24 fret guitars of the same brand, spec, and quality. In fact, i've never heard or tried that. I don't think most people have either.

Neck pickups sound like neck pickups to me. Pretty much the same damn thing no matter what, with the biggest difference being the pickups. So i'm not picky! 24 frets is perfect for me, as i actually end up using the 24th fret quite a bit, and i like having two full octaves available.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2012)

Also... I play 27 fretters w a single in thr neck. I never much cared for the 22 v 24 fret debate. I could spend time pondering much more meaningful questions. Play your guitar and don't think so much.

EDIT: I'm with MF Kitten. Practicality over mythical tone.


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## Andromalia (Nov 25, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Or already engineers...


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 25, 2012)

I think one good point someone raised in this forum (i believe it was schecterwhore) , is that apart from the string ringing open or at the 12th fret ,any other note being played has nothing to benefit from the pickup being under the 24th fret.

Essentially you would need a pickup seated compared to the fret you play at a distance equal to the one between the nut and said fret,in order for ALL notes to benefit from the phenomenon.


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## SirMyghin (Nov 25, 2012)

^^^






Genius


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 25, 2012)

^ Touche 


Something close to that anyways...The whole argument about 2 fucking frets is ridiculous anyway


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## SirMyghin (Nov 25, 2012)

^^

Whats funnier is Leo moved the pickups on his G&Ls back 1/2" from that 'sweet spot', despite having 22 frets, because he considered it a fault


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## tedtan (Nov 25, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Haven't some ppl actually done that?


 
I haven't seen it on an electric, but Taylor acoustics with their Expression System electronics have a both a body sensor behind the bridge and a magnetic pickup installed under the fingerboard at about the 18th fret, so it can be done.

On an electric, this location places the pickup further from the strings, making the output lower, so you would have to wind a hotter pickup, likely compromising the desired tone. It seems easier to just use the darker neck pickups (Jazz, Air Norton, etc.) on a 24 fretter.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 25, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Haven't some ppl actually done that?


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## Fiction (Nov 25, 2012)

I prefer 22 frets both functionally and for those sweet tones.

Edit: and to be honest I think any guitar can get those sweet tones now a days.


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## tedtan (Nov 25, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


>


 

Damn - I haven't seen a 36 fretter in a _long_ time, and this is the first electric I've come across with a pickup under the fingerboard.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2012)

Didn't Uli Jon Roth have a pickup under his board as well?


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## skeels (Nov 25, 2012)

Wouldn't the pick-up-under-the-fretboard style guitar suffer from interference from the frets themselves?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 25, 2012)

skeels said:


> Wouldn't the pick-up-under-the-fretboard style guitar suffer from interference from the frets themselves?



Not really. Frets are made of either nickel or non-ferromagnetic stainless steel.


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## Winspear (Nov 26, 2012)

The only problem would be lack of height adjustment. And pickup changing if it wasn't a carefully designed bolt on. 
Some guy built one here like that, an Explorer style.


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## Edika (Nov 26, 2012)

The whole discussion about harmonic nodes and pickup placements has a point scientifically but as tedtan and SirMyghin pointed once you fret a note it all goes out the window. On the other hand you still have a certain wave pattern that should react differently on the magnetic field of the pickup. Depending on the distance of the pickup due to the 22 or 24 frets, it will interact with a different part of the wave pattern for the same note, making some notes probably more "favorable" in each configuration. Different tunings should reflect that also since the wave pattern created from a standing wave will be different for a different frequency note even if the fretting note/pickup distance is the same.
I haven't played a 22 fret guitar for a long time so I really don't recall the difference in tone. My 22 fret guitar has cheap pickups, the neck one is a single coil (HSS) and I don't have it near me so there is no way I can compare the two types. However don't all the other factors like construction, woods, pickups, equipment (amps, effects etc etc) and player affect how the guitar will sound? I mean if I compare my alder bodied, bolt-on, 22 fret, maple neck/rosewood fretboard, Floyd-Rose II bridge, single coil neck pup with my mahogany body, bolt-on, 24 fret, 5-piece maple/walnut neck/rosewood fretboard, Edge pro bridge, humbucker neck pup is there any point?

And Experimental/Material Science Physicist y'all!


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## Rook (Nov 26, 2012)

No.

If the neck pickup is proportionally closer to the nut, then it'll be closer to the fretted notes too and by an increasingly high degree, the 24 fret guitar's neck pickup won't be in the middle of the string's length until about the 15th fret too, meaning in theory it stays really murky between about 12 and 20 odd, whereas you pass the point where the neck pickup is directly in the middle of the string on a 22 fret when you're past the 12th, and because the frets are bigger it gets cleaner sounding faster as you go up.

The reasoning continues: as the string isn't changing in thickness as you go up the frets, the the thickness of the string relative to the length increases which changes how the string acts. The higher the string thickness:length ratio is, the more fundamental and the less harmonic content you get - to put that into guitar speak, pretty much lose treble (which is why 12th fret in the low E doesn't sound like 2nd fret on D, the D is much brighter) and it sounds less clean because you have less harmonic content on hand to figure out what note it is. When the pickup is exactly in the middle of the length of string, you also get mostly fundamental as only odd order harmonics have an antinode there.

Tl;dr 22 fretter neck pickups effect is carried forward up the neck and moves the clearer upper register lower down the neck, so the already bright lower frets round off nicely, and the darker higher frets sound sweeter.

So not doesn't go out the window 

Woods and player and stuff make a difference but in a different way, they don't cancel each other out.

As for a pickup under the board, the frets won't cause interference even if they are magnetic (like nickel and some steels) because you have to move the magnet in an electric field to create interference. If you fret the note directly above it however, it will sound fairly shit, and if you fret a note past it it won't really make any noise at all. Obviously.

NB There's no need to compromise for me, I just prefer the sound of the 24 fret pickup position anyway.


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## Winspear (Nov 26, 2012)

Rook said:


> If you fret the note directly above it however, it will sound fairly shit, and if you fret a note past it it won't really make any noise at all. Obviously.



What the fuck. How did I not realize this blatant fact before!? I've looked at the guitar above and the one the forum member built thinking it was a pretty cool idea. I never remember him saying it didn't work out..Then again if I remember correctly it was purely for aesthetic reasons and didn't have frets beyond the pickup.


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## MassNecrophagia (Nov 26, 2012)

Really? Here I've just been completely unconcerned about number of frets and neck pickup placement...

Shit.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Nov 26, 2012)

Funny that more than 24 frets doesn't come around very often. I would've thought that progress meant more frets, increasing the range of the instrument.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 26, 2012)

Demand... Ppl wanna tune down and use the same power chord shapes not shred higher... That would be like work or something.


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## ihunda (Nov 26, 2012)

Meanwhile Stefen Carpentier moves its neck pickup way closer to the bridge both on 27 and 25.5 inches scale length. 





The ESP Guitar Company | 2012 USA Website,

 It's a good thing I decided to stop obsessing about tiny details and went back to my boring metronome routine. 

Something tells me this will have more effect on my "tone"


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 26, 2012)

^You're starting to sound like the dudes on the woodwind forums.


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## JamesRGoodall (Nov 26, 2012)

ihunda said:


> Meanwhile Stefen Carpentier moves its neck pickup way closer to the bridge both on 27 and 25.5 inches scale length.
> 
> IMAGE#1
> The ESP Guitar Company | 2012 USA Website



This. The guitarist in my old band played the 25" and the tone was pretty punchy. My bass has *proportionally* the same configuration. I love the sound in both instruments, but I stand that the main tone comes from scale length/string gauges, playing style, amp settings, and body wood. I feel like pickup placement does have an effect, but it has more to do with the distance between the pickups themselves, and is still fairly subjective due to the change in the vibrating distance of the string with every different note you fret. there's alot to the sound of a guitar though, and these are just my opinions/observations



_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


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## Linny (Nov 26, 2012)

Thep said:


> A 22 fret humbucker sounds different because it sits under a harmonic node. The scale doesn't matter, the 24th fret will be 1/4 the length of the string.



Yea when you play open strings, not when you move above the second fret.


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## dtdb (Nov 26, 2012)

Your best solution from a "start fresh" point of view would likely be essentially inlaying or countersinking your neck pickup into the fretboard under the 24th fret. It's all a matter of having your receptive coil at the 2 octave harmonic node.


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## Greatoliver (Nov 26, 2012)

Sooooooo... Why does the neck pup not sound like the bridge pup when you're fretting the 24th fret? They're both the same distance along the string, just as different ends... (Excluding the differences from pups; assume you're using 2 707s)


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't think that makes as much sense as you think... They're still both different distances from the origin of the note. The bridge pickup being closer to he bridge. Have you tried picking a note at different points along the string? It sounds more like a neck pickup if you pick closer to the neck and more like a bridge pickup if you pick closer to the bridge. I imagine this has something to do with why the pickups sound the way they do.


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## Stealthtastic (Nov 26, 2012)

skeels said:


> Are you kidding?
> Do you know how many of these guys are engineering students?


 
To be fair I wouldn't really understand this type of math if it was worked out for me. I'd have to do it on my own, however it doesn't pertain to me in the slightest considering I'll never want a fucking 30" guitar neck


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## Rook (Nov 27, 2012)

Who are you


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 27, 2012)

I know right? I said the same thing.


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