# 9 String Guitar vs 5 String Bass



## shawnperolis (Jan 14, 2013)

So I notice that it is a pretty common theme for people to ask "Why didn't you just buy a bass har-har-har" when it comes to our super low tuned extended range guitars. Well, I was bored and decided to do some SCIENCE! 

Two instruments - My 9 String Agile Intrepid and my dad's 5 String Ibanez Bass. Same riff, played once in clean and once with distortion. The exact same tones are used for both, using the lowest 3 strings tuned the same on both instruments, B0 E1 A1.



The verdict? Well, I wasn't really trying to prove anything. I just wanted to make a video showing the difference between the two instruments. I'm not going to say anything else, I'll let you hear it for yourselves and make your own conclusions.

UPDATE:
Okay, so I went back and recorded a new video taking into consideration the feedback you guys gave me. I think this video is a much better comparison!

The guitar is the same, my Agile 930. The bass is my dad's Fender MB-5.

Agile 930 9 String:
Tuning: B0, E1, A1, E2, A2, D3, G3, B3, E4
Passive Bridge Pickup
Tone Knob turned all the way up
Heavy Guitar Pick

Fender MB-5 5 String:
Tuning: B0, E1, A1, D3, G3
Passive Pickup
Tone Knobs turned all the way up
Heavy Guitar Pick


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## Winspear (Jan 14, 2013)

Anyone who says anything along those lines is bonkers, the tones are nothing similar - maybe close (depending on other things) if you chose to string your guitar with insane bass tension but I don't know anyone doing that.


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## Bretton (Jan 14, 2013)

They were way closer than I thought they'd be. If I had just heard the clean 9 string, without knowing what it was, I would have said "nice bass tone."

but there's still, "why didn't you buy a bass?" "because a bass doesn't have 5 more high strings."


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## luca9583 (Jan 14, 2013)

Useful experiment but i noticed that the tunings weren't the same for both instruments..the 9 string sounds more like C1 compared to the B0 of the 5 string..so a slight discrepancy in the tuning there.

This topic has been covered many times but the fact is that the two instruments don't sound the similar at all...largely because of the _combination_ of scale lengths, string gauges, pickups and pickup placement in each instrument.

Even if you take a 30" scale bass or Bass VI style instrument, you would still need to put guitar strings on it to get close to a guitar like tone for low tunings, just like you would need to put bass strings on a 30" scale guitar to get it to sound closer to a bass. Guitar and bass strings of the same gauge will also sound different to each other in the same instrument.

What is interesting however, is the fact that 30" scale is currently the longest scale length that is relatively available for guitars (excluding 34" scale touch style instruments of course). I think B0 needs a longer scale length than 30" for any fretted note on that string to have acceptable intonation and harmonic content, while still having a guitar like tone. 

The alternative is to use lighter strings (try an .080 for tuned to B0), and to pick right by the bridge to avoid making the note sound over a semitone sharp! 

A really useful experiment would be to take a 34" scale bass, set it up with some guitar strings and a guitar sized bridge, stick a guitar pickup in the bridge position (hopefully routed close to the bridge) and then see what kind of guitar tones you can get!!!!


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## shawnperolis (Jan 14, 2013)

luca9583 said:


> Useful experiment but i noticed that the tunings weren't the same for both instruments..the 9 string sounds more like C1 compared to the B0 of the 5 string..so a slight discrepancy in the tuning there.



Yeah, I found out that my dad's bass was tuned to E-flat... He just got home from work and mentioned that. haha I feel like a derp for not checking that before. So yeah, the bass is half a step lower than the guitar. Oooops. 

edit: I plugged the bass in to re-tune it and upload a new video, but it was actually pretty sharp. So the difference between the two instruments is less than a half-step. I don't feel as bad now. Either way, you've got a REALLY good ear, I couldn't tell the difference! hahaha


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## RadDadTV (Jan 15, 2013)

I think the bass sounded better... haha


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## Schizo Sapiens (Jan 15, 2013)

It seems like you used neck pickup on a guitar. Am I right? That may explain why guitar sounds so bass-like here, especially in distorted part.


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## Hollowway (Jan 15, 2013)

Cool, thanks for doing this! I've never tried it, but I should have. I'm definitely in the camp that used to think tuning low is stupid, and it will just sound like a bass. Fast forward to current times, and I'm playing 8 strings and lower (and have a build going with tuning down to G#0). Fact is, they do not sound alike, and I love the sound of a low guitar. (And interestingly, I've always been a fan of piccolo basses. Go figure!)


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

Schizo Sapiens said:


> It seems like you used neck pickup on a guitar. Am I right? That may explain why guitar sounds so bass-like here, especially in distorted part.



Yup, I am using the neck pickup on the guitar. As for the bass... I just fiddled with the tone knobs until I thought it sounded like a bass should.



Hollowway said:


> Cool, thanks for doing this! I've never tried it, but I should have. I'm definitely in the camp that used to think tuning low is stupid, and it will just sound like a bass. Fast forward to current times, and I'm playing 8 strings and lower (and have a build going with tuning down to G#0). Fact is, they do not sound alike, and I love the sound of a low guitar. (And interestingly, I've always been a fan of piccolo basses. Go figure!)



haha no problem! Actually, shortly after making this video I decided tuning C# E B E A D G B E was more practical (I wanted to learn some Animals as Leaders and the low C# felt better to me)

I think that it is safe to say the bass guitar and extended range guitar are both different enough to have their place in music composition. What matters more than what notes you are tuned to is how you are utilizing the instrument, I think.


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## knuckle_head (Jan 15, 2013)

Timbre, man . . . . timbre.


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## Schizo Sapiens (Jan 15, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> Yup, I am using the neck pickup on the guitar.



I think that it would be better to compare bridge pickups on both guitar and bass. That would clearly show that bass just can't replicate that sharp, extremely downtuned distorted sound of ER guitars. That's what we need to demonstrate to "why-don't-you-play-bass" people first of all.

Instead, your samples show that 9-string guitar on neck pickup can produce pretty convincing bass sound. Which is nice thing to know by the way.


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## facepalm66 (Jan 15, 2013)

Still, the bass tone is quite sloppy, IMO. I bet you could get a 10 times better tone with a bit tweaking.

Plus, the guitar strings are way fresher than baass. I bet that mr ibby has atleast one - year - old strings. And that makes a huge impact too when comparing.


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## Philligan (Jan 15, 2013)

That was cool man  At first they sounded a lot closer than I was expecting, but after a few listens they started to sound totally different.


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

Schizo Sapiens said:


> I think that it would be better to compare bridge pickups on both guitar and bass. That would clearly show that bass just can't replicate that sharp, extremely downtuned distorted sound of ER guitars. That's what we need to demonstrate to "why-don't-you-play-bass" people first of all.
> 
> Instead, your samples show that 9-string guitar on neck pickup can produce pretty convincing bass sound. Which is nice thing to know by the way.



Yeah, good point. Maybe for my next video I'll do that. 



facepalm66 said:


> Still, the bass tone is quite sloppy, IMO. I bet you could get a 10 times better tone with a bit tweaking.
> 
> Plus, the guitar strings are way fresher than baass. I bet that mr ibby has atleast one - year - old strings. And that makes a huge impact too when comparing.



The bass tone is EXACTLY the same as the guitar tone - that was the point of the experiment. To get rid of as many variables as possible - we can now rule out tuning, tone settings, the riff, and different play styles (I used the same pick on both instruments, even though playing bass with a pick is a sin) just to show that the actual differences between the instruments.

I've got some good feedback here, my next test will be much more precise! Maybe we can clear this up once and for all!


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## knuckle_head (Jan 15, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> . . . . even thought playing bass with a pick is a sin



Dick Lövgren would disagree . . .

. . . jus'sayin


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

knuckle_head said:


> Dick Lövgren would disagree . . .
> 
> . . . jus'sayin



I really don't like Meshuggah, so he can disagree all he wants. hahaha

In all honesty, I keep trying to like Meshuggah because I rock a low tuned extended range and I feel like I have to... But I can't find the appeal, other than the low tuning. They've got some nice heavy riffs and great guitar tones, but nothing else really stands out to me.


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

Okay, so I went back and recorded a new video taking into consideration the feedback you guys gave me. I think this video is a much better comparison!

The guitar is the same, my Agile 930. The bass is my dad's Fender MB-5.

Agile 930 9 String:
Tuning: B0, E1, A1, E2, A2, D3, G3, B3, E4
Passive Bridge Pickup
Tone Knob turned all the way up
Heavy Guitar Pick

Fender MB-5 5 String:
Tuning: B0, E1, A1, D3, G3
Passive Pickup
Tone Knobs turned all the way up
Heavy Guitar Pick


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 15, 2013)

knuckle_head said:


> Dick Lövgren would disagree . . .
> 
> . . . jus'sayin



Not to mention Lemmy and Newsted.


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## Bretton (Jan 15, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> In all honesty, I keep trying to like Meshuggah because I rock a low tuned extended range and I feel like I have to... But I can't find the appeal, other than the low tuning. They've got some nice heavy riffs and great guitar tones, but nothing else really stands out to me.



Same here, with a few exceptions (Neurotica, Bleed) I get really bored listening to Meshuggah. There's times when I focus on one instrument, and realize all it's doing is playing quarter notes.

New Video:
They do sound different, but it sounds like it could be a comparison between two different basses, especially on clean, though as distortion is added, the difference is expanded. Funnily enough, I prefer the guitar's clean tone as a bass over the actual bass.


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

Bretton said:


> Same here, with a few exceptions (Neurotica, Bleed) I get really bored listening to Meshuggah. There's times when I focus on one instrument, and realize all it's doing is playing quarter notes.
> 
> New Video:
> They do sound different, but it sounds like it could be a comparison between two different basses, especially on clean, though as distortion is added, the difference is expanded. Funnily enough, I prefer the guitar's clean tone as a bass over the actual bass.



I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't love Meshuggah. 

I agree with you about the guitar's clean tone. I love touchstyle, so I included a tapping riff. I think the guitar sounds MUCH cleaner doing that kind of thing than a bass. The distortion tone is what truly makes a guitar sound like a guitar though, you can tell the bass is pretty 'sloppy' sounding and lacking the attack of the guitar.


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## Jessy (Jan 15, 2013)

Bass strings are too far apart for fast picking. Guitar strings are too close together for hitting hard with your thumb. Tone isn't the issue; every instrument type sounds better with as ridiculously long a scale as can be managed. Both instruments are necessary to accommodate different playing techniques.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 15, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Anyone who says anything along those lines is bonkers, the tones are nothing similar - maybe close (depending on other things) if you chose to string your guitar with insane bass tension but I don't know anyone doing that.





I still get...



> How come you gots all them strings and you no chugga chuggaz?



So even ERG players give me shit! 

I never really got why ppl care so much about how many strings are on other ppl's guitars.


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## facepalm66 (Jan 15, 2013)

^ that's becouse a generic internet poster is generic. One said it, thousands re - posted the same.


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## shawnperolis (Jan 15, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> So even ERG players give me shit!
> 
> I never really got why ppl care so much about how many strings are on other ppl's guitars.



haha but when you go chuggachuggachugga does everyone yell at you for not playing musically?


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## EL_JEFE (Jan 16, 2013)

Did someone say chuggah chuggah?

Agile 9 string heavy chuggah chuggah for ya! 


hahahahaha​


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## Eric Christian (Jan 17, 2013)

EL_JEFE said:


> Did someone say chuggah chuggah?​
> 
> Agile 9 string heavy chuggah chuggah for ya! ​
> 
> hahahahaha​


 
Thats outta sight man... you got any more of that stuff?


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## EL_JEFE (Jan 17, 2013)

Eric Christian said:


> Thats outta sight man... you got any more of that stuff?


Hey thank you, Sorry OP I didn't mean to take this off topic. Eric I threw some more links up at my post

For us the bass lines play similar, but it has it's own tone that adds to the music. We tried without a bass and there's a empty spot in the sound. Yeah it can be done without it but there's a empty spot that only a BASS can fill. Even with 9 stringers


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 17, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> haha but when you go chuggachuggachugga does everyone yell at you for not playing musically?



Ehh... People seem to scoff at the fact that an 8 string could ever be musical in the first place generally...


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## yellow (Jan 17, 2013)

wow, thanks for that video, I thought theyd be virtually the same and now I heard, I was waiting a long time for a side by side like this. thanks (now I know 8 is my limit)


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## shawnperolis (Jan 17, 2013)

yellow said:


> wow, thanks for that video, I thought theyd be virtually the same and now I heard, I was waiting a long time for a side by side like this. thanks (now I know 8 is my limit)



No problem! I'm glad it was informative and worthwhile. I don't tune that low anymore, but I thought it was an interesting experiment and I'm actually pretty surprised that no one else had done it before!


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## russtolium (Jan 17, 2013)

Jessy said:


> Bass strings are too far apart for fast picking.



Tell that to the former bassist of Ruins:



To be fair, I have no idea how he plays this fast on what appears to be a pretty regular bass.


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