# Scar Symmetry - The Illusionist



## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

If anyone could enlighten me as to their tuning I'd be quite grateful.

YouTube - Scar Symmetry - The illusionist

It has to be either D or C... and based on the tab I'm looking at, D or C standard.


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## ballr4lyf (Aug 6, 2008)

Ummm.... B standard... as in BEADGBE.


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## Naren (Aug 6, 2008)

"D or C"!?  I think you need to get your ears checked. If you try to play along with that song (or ANY of Scar Symmetry's songs) in D or C and think it sounds in tune, you may have serious problems. Also, the lowest note in all their songs sounds so insanely low and massive that I can't imagine how you'd think "D" even if you were tonedeaf. 

It's in 7-string standard: BEADGBE.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Naren said:


> "D or C"!?  I think you need to get your ears checked. If you try to play along with that song (or ANY of Scar Symmetry's songs) in D or C and think it sounds in tune, you may have serious problems. Also, the lowest note in all their songs sounds so insanely low and massive that I can't imagine how you'd think "D" even if you were tonedeaf.
> 
> It's in 7-string standard: BEADGBE.



Thanks for the bad attempt at flaming a guy who's been playing guitar for about a month xD!

Also, I didn't know they were the type who used 7 string guitars, which is why I asked. Mainly because I also had that "Wow this is quite deep," but with that in mind, according to the tab I have (so take this with a grain of salt...) they do power chords using the low B/E strings, and with the minimal 7 string experience I have, that sounds like garbage.


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## Naren (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> Thanks for the bad attempt at flaming a guy who's been playing guitar for about a month xD! You may not feel stupid, but you sure are.



 Well, that puts some of it in perspective. Still...



digitaLbraVo said:


> they do power chords using the low B/E strings, and with the minimal 7 string experience I have, that sounds like garbage.



 If power chords using the low B/E strings sounded like garbage, why would anyone in metal buy a sevenstring guitar? 

As for the tab, those aren't to be trusted. I've seen tabs for songs that were in drop Db tabbed out in E standard.


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## Desecrated (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> Thanks for the bad attempt at flaming a guy who's been playing guitar for about a month xD! You may not feel stupid, but you sure are.
> 
> Also, I didn't know they were the type who used 7 string guitars, which is why I asked, asshole. Mainly because I also had that "Wow this is quite deep," but with that in mind, according to the tab I have (so take this with a grain of salt...) they do power chords using the low B/E strings, and with the minimal 7 string experience I have, that sounds like garbage.



Then you need to dial your sound better.


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## NegaTiveXero (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> Thanks for the bad attempt at flaming a guy who's been playing guitar for about a month xD! You may not feel stupid, but you sure are.
> 
> Also, I didn't know they were the type who used 7 string guitars, which is why I asked, asshole. Mainly because I also had that "Wow this is quite deep," but with that in mind, according to the tab I have (so take this with a grain of salt...) they do power chords using the low B/E strings, and with the minimal 7 string experience I have, that sounds like garbage.



You may want to change your attitude a bit, and not take what Naren says so seriously, if you want to stick around here.

Besides, if you look at the video you posted one of the guitarists is playing a 7-String Ibanez.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Naren said:


> If power chords using the low B/E strings sounded like garbage, why would anyone in metal buy a sevenstring guitar?
> 
> As for the tab, those aren't to be trusted. I've seen tabs for songs that were in drop Db tabbed out in E standard.



Well there is such a spread there, it's kinda like if you were playing on a 6 EADGBE and you fretted the low E at 2 and the A at 5, it just sounds... ugly. I noticed the same thing with the 7 I played, the B was great if you played it by itself, but if you tried power chords with the B/E it was like "Woa, never do that again please." lol...

*EDIT*

I also like how two people have been rude now, and I get snapped at by the Moderator.


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## NegaTiveXero (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm not a mod, but you're a new member, you don't need to be calling people assholes...yet.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

If people can't take being called an asshole, they shouldn't deal out the insults themselves. Now are you done being Naren's mom yet? He's a big boy.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> I also like how two people have been rude now, and I get snapped at by the Moderator.



It's because you're getting snippy about it, man. Just relax, they weren't trying to be rude at all, Naren is just sarcastic and we love him for it.  Since you said you haven't had much experience with guitars your comments are put more into perspective now and I'm sure now that they realize that you won't be picked on, just don't give people attitude and you'll be fine.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Snippy about it. I had one post, that was asking the tuning. Then got called tone-deaf and stupid. Riiiiight.


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## Apex1rg7x (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> Well there is such a spread there, it's kinda like if you were playing on a 6 EADGBE and you fretted the low E at 2 and the A at 5, it just sounds... ugly. I noticed the same thing with the 7 I played, the B was great if you played it by itself, but if you tried power chords with the B/E it was like "Woa, never do that again please." lol...
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> I also like how two people have been rude now, and I get snapped at by the Moderator.



If your playing a power chord and your fretting the 2nd fret on the E string, why are you fingering the 5th fret on the A string? 

Heres a standard power chord:
----------
----------
---------- 
---------- 
--4-------
--2-------


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## NegaTiveXero (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> If people can't take being called an asshole, they shouldn't deal out the insults themselves. Now are you done being Naren's mom yet? He's a big boy.



Who insulted you, nancy-boy? 

Naren's not a big boy, either. Mommy loves him.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Apex1rg7x said:


> If your playing a power chord and your fretting the 2nd fret on the E string, why are you fingering the 5th fret on the A string?
> 
> Heres a standard power chord:
> ----------
> ...



I'm aware. I meant the sound. When I played a power chord (such as your 2/4 like you just put) on a 7 string tuned B standard, it sounded as though I was playing a 2/5.

*EDIT* Kinda like the notes weren't "complimentary" they didn't "work" together. Does that make sense?


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## HighGain510 (Aug 6, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> Snippy about it. I had one post, that was asking the tuning. Then got called tone-deaf and stupid. Riiiiight.



See, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not insulting you but you're getting really upset. Relax....


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## Naren (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm a flexible dude and I haven't taken offense at Danny's comments. We're mature enough to fling the word "asshole" back and forth at each other.



digitaLbraVo said:


> Well there is such a spread there, it's kinda like if you were playing on a 6 EADGBE and you fretted the low E at 2 and the A at 5, it just sounds... ugly. I noticed the same thing with the 7 I played, the B was great if you played it by itself, but if you tried power chords with the B/E it was like "Woa, never do that again please." lol...
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> I also like how two people have been rude now, and I get snapped at by the Moderator.



That would mean that your 7's intonation is off, the tuning is off, or even possibly the string gauge is too light.

I've played guitars like the ones you're talking about, but I've also played 6-strings like that as well. 

Power chords based on the low B string of my baritone 7-string ring out clearer, more in tune, and "harmonically gorgeous" than any 6-string in standard tuning that I've ever played.

It's not a problem inherant in 7-strings, but it's a problem with that particular guitar's setup. I think Scar Symmetry's sound is the archetypal "7 string" sound.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

The light is bright when one shows it. So, just for clarification, if a 7 is tuned properly than a B/E power chord shouldn't sound crunchy and wrong, lol. I think my predisposition about 7's is quite off..

Oh, and sure it's an innocent mistake but, it's Denny with an E. I get that a lot so no skin.


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## mikernaut (Aug 6, 2008)

I was just checking out the tab for this song the other night. I downloaded the guitar pro tab Songs search @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
and you can play the midi to get a sense of how it goes. This is a great help for the timing.
Also checked out both the solo tabs and they are tabbed pretty differently and I think parts from each are correct but neither seem completely dead on.

One thing I have noticed is theres no room for sloppyness when playing 7 string chords you have to have good finger strength and clarity. Also a good amp with a dialed in tone for your 7 well also help the clarity factor. Most the settings I use with my six strings sound horrible if I try to play my 7 with them. 

You can also check out videos on youtube of people playing the song to visually see what they are doing roughlyand where they are on the fretboard.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 6, 2008)

Naren said:


> That would mean that your 7's intonation is off, the tuning is off, or even possibly the string gauge is too light.



That or it could even be that he's playing through this:







No elitism here at all, but that amp is 15w of solid state goodness and has such a tiny speaker that if you have the bass dialed in improperly you could easily be causing that problem (or even blowing the speaker).  I'd try dialing down the bass a bit and see if that helps keep the clarity on the low chords.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

HighGain510 said:


> No elitism here at all, but that amp is 15w of solid state goodness and has such a tiny speaker that if you have the bass dialed in improperly you could easily be causing that problem (or even blowing the speaker).  I'd try dialing down the bass a bit and see if that helps keep the clarity on the low chords.



That's almost like mine, I don't have that gray cover, and the box is a bit different but that is beside the point. I played it at Guitar Center through a... Line 6 most likely. Nothing huge, maybe a 75w Spider II combo.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 6, 2008)

The difference in gain between those amps is pretty significant. My guess is trying to play some Scar Symmetry on a Line 6 would sound drastically different than it would even on the highest gain settings on the Fender.  75w of solid state power is decent enough, it's going to be capable of higher handling on the speaker too which means less woofiness to the low chords.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Since it was at guitar center, I'm thinking it was just not tuned... I'll have to revisit 7's at some point.


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## Rick (Aug 6, 2008)

Naren said:


> We're mature enough to fling the word "asshole" back and forth at each other.



Naren, you're an asshole.


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## digitaLbraVo (Aug 6, 2008)

Rick said:


> Naren, you're an asshole.



You're all assholes.

(How do you like that Line 6 HD147?)


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## Naren (Aug 7, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> The light is bright when one shows it. So, just for clarification, if a 7 is tuned properly than a B/E power chord shouldn't sound crunchy and wrong, lol. I think my predisposition about 7's is quite off..
> 
> Oh, and sure it's an innocent mistake but, it's Denny with an E. I get that a lot so no skin.



It's not just tuning, but that's an important aspect. I have several videos of myself playing my seven-strings on YouTube and the low B string is tight, snappy, and perfectly intonated with the other strings in all those videos.

I don't think it's possible to get a sound like Scar Symmetry at a place like Guitar Center. I've played 2 of my own guitars on amps at places like that (Ishibashi, Ikebe) and it just sounds like crap. The powerchords, however, sound the same on the low B/E strings as they do on the A and D strings or anywhere else.

A lot of sevenstrings, however, come with pickups that aren't very clear or articulate, and that can be a problem. However, I think it's a different problem than the one you're talking about.

But all 3 of Scar Symmetry's albums are played 100% on seven-strings in B standard (BEADGBE) with a few songs in drop A (AEADGBE) scattered in there and, as you can tell by listening, they use the full low B power chord A LOT. And it has a really vibrant snappy sound. Part of that also has to do with the amps they use (ENGLs), which really help bring that sound out.



digitaLbraVo said:


> Since it was at guitar center, I'm thinking it was just not tuned... I'll have to revisit 7's at some point.



That can be a problem as well. The last time I was playing at a guitar shop, the guy tuned the guitar, but pretty haphazardly. 2 of the strings were off and it was a floyd rose guitar, so I couldn't so easily retune it back into tune. Fiddled with the fine tuners, though. And the amp I was using was a Mesa Boogie, but still sounded really low gain. 



Rick said:


> Naren, you're an asshole.



So are you, Rick.  So... are... you.


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## Rick (Aug 7, 2008)

^ 

Man, I love that tone.


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## stuh84 (Aug 7, 2008)

Naren said:


> But all 3 of Scar Symmetry's albums are played 100% on seven-strings in B standard (BEADGBE) with a few songs in drop A (AEADGBE) scattered in there



Just like to mention that theres one or two tracks on Holographic Universe in F# too  I asked Jonas on his Myspace just to check, and they are tuned that low on Three Dimensional Shadow for example.


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## Nick (Aug 7, 2008)

digitaLbraVo said:


> I'm aware. I meant the sound. When I played a power chord (such as your 2/4 like you just put) on a 7 string tuned B standard, it sounded as though I was playing a 2/5.
> 
> *EDIT* Kinda like the notes weren't "complimentary" they didn't "work" together. Does that make sense?



if thats the case your guitar is not in tune.


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## Toshiro (Aug 7, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> Just like to mention that theres one or two tracks on Holographic Universe in F# too  I asked Jonas on his Myspace just to check, and they are tuned that low on Three Dimensional Shadow for example.





Per on Scar Symmetry's Forum said:


> We use standard 7 string tuning, drop-A, and Three-Dimensional Shadow is standard 8-string tuning.


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## Naren (Aug 7, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> Just like to mention that theres one or two tracks on Holographic Universe in F# too  I asked Jonas on his Myspace just to check, and they are tuned that low on Three Dimensional Shadow for example.



I forgot about Three Dimensional Shadow, but I'm pretty sure that's the ONLY song in F#. Like 95% of their songs are in B standard, they have like 3 songs from all the albums in drop A (maybe 4 in drop A, but I think 3), and one in F#.


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## mikernaut (Aug 7, 2008)

I actually just realized the beginning of this vid is the Illusionist solo. Now I can compare with the Guitar Pro tabs .


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