# Best Extended Range Classical?



## median (Oct 16, 2012)

What are your opinions on extended range classical acoustics? Anyone have any experience with these? I have been thinking of picking one up for a while, although I'm not too sure about getting extended range nylon strings.

UPDATE: 

I am now looking for one of these. What do you think the best one is for the money? In general, I find that lightweight ones sound better.


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## Jormal1ty (Oct 16, 2012)

I have been thinking about getting maybe 7-string classical guitar too, but i dont know much about them.


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## Danukenator (Oct 16, 2012)

Eric of XEN Stringed Instruments guitars has a bunch of cool classical ERG stuff on his website. 

I believe he does up to a ten string design. While I've yet to receive an instrument from him, I can vouch, he has the best communication of any Guitar builder I've encountered. I have a ten string electric on order.

Another plus is that, to my knowledge, Tom of the Oakland Axe Factory is doing the building of the guitars and people here can vouch he is killer builder. IMO His ten string neck carve feel as nice as my eight string.


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## median (Oct 17, 2012)

Thx for the info. Any other suggestions anyone?


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## Given To Fly (Oct 17, 2012)

I was made for this thread! I'll type a big post later but heres a (bad quality) NGD pic I should have posted 5 years ago.







This was my first concert guitar and first 7 string classical guitar.

2007 Zbigneiw Gnatek 7 String (The first one he had ever built.)
Lattice Braced Cedar Top
Brazilian Rosewood Back and Sides
24 fret extension (Another first)

More info and more guitars after I finish teaching.


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## median (Oct 17, 2012)

Given To Fly said:


> I was made for this thread! I'll type a big post later but heres a (bad quality) NGD pic I should have posted 5 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is awesome. Where did you get this? How much was it? Can you send YouTube vids?


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## Winspear (Oct 17, 2012)

Bartolex build lots of these, pretty cheap for what they are if I remember rightly.
Home Page
BartolexUSA -- Bartolex, Milagro & Cathedral 10-String, 11-String, 8-String, & 7-String Classical Harp Guitars
I can't find the nice webpage that I used to look at though.

I actually have a set of 8 nylon strings waiting to try on my fanned Vik 9 electric with piezos as a test/prototype for gauges, tensions, tuning, scale lengths, and the sound of nylons with piezo pickups. This is research for an upcoming build which will be tuned to AEADGBEA  String type and availability is certainly something to think about with nylons with regards to scale and tuning. I'm pretty much basing my design on being able to get D'addarios thickest silverwound bass and thinnest rectified treble.


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## The Reverend (Oct 17, 2012)

I've been looking for a seven-string classical guitar, this is a great thread. I wish I could be more helpful, though.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 18, 2012)

median - I ordered the guitar from the luthier, Zbigniew Gnatek. He is Polish but lives in Australia. In 2007, his waiting list was 1 year and the guitar cost $7750. I normally don't tell people exactly how much it cost but its helpful for fellow guitarists to know prices in different guitar markets. I do not have any videos. That is something I will be working on in the near future.

Here are pics of both of my classical guitars. They were both built by an independent luthier and ordered new. The first one is the Gnatek:






And the second guitar was built in 2009 by Jeremy Cooper:






The specs are:

2009 Jeremy Cooper 7 String (Also the first one he had ever built.)
Double Top with Cedar/Spruce
Indian Rosewood Back and Sides
Elevated Fretboard
Sound Port (You can't see it in these pics but a Sound Port is basically a smaller sound hole on the side of the upper bout. It is supposed to help the player hear the sound being projected from the guitar.)
24 Fret Extension (A first for Jeremy as well)

You may be thinking they look almost exactly the same, heres why:

I was fortunate to win the Cooper in a guitar competition. When I talked to Jeremy about building a guitar I realized if something were to ever happen to my Gnatek, like if it was stolen or destroyed, I would have a huge problem. I had incorporated the 7th string into enough of my repertoire that I wouldn't be able to perform it on a 6 string guitar. So I basically had Jeremy build a copy of the Gnatek. Jeremy also added features the Gnatek didn't have like the Sound Port and a higher elevated fretboard.

I also had a Bartolex 7 String Classical which I sold yesterday. I don't have 100 posts yet so I couldn't post it here. Here's a pic though:






I bought the Bartolex as a gig (background music) guitar but sold it because I didn't really feel comfortable playing those gigs so the guitar just sat around. The guitar itself was a decent acoustic electric type classical guitar but I feel I overpaid for it. A 6 string equivalent would have been much cheaper but Bartolex was the least shady company making relatively affordable 7 string classical guitars at the time. It was a really good deal for the person who bought it from me though. 

Ask me questions, I hopefully have some answers.


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## WiseSplinter (Oct 18, 2012)

Kaki King Custom





Saw this a while back, really really want to touch it.


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## Malkav (Oct 18, 2012)

There's a local luthier here who makes extended range nylon strings with a bit of a twist - I have never played one as he lives quite far from where I stay and I cannot in anyway vouch for them other than stating I think they look cool. It couldn't hurt to ask for a quote though  I've heard very good things about his work and right now the South African rand is taking quite a dive so you may have a fair amount of buying power over here 

SmoothTalker Guitars | Innovative South African designer and maker of stringed musical instruments - Established in 1973

Here are some photos of his work - As stated I do think they're fairly unique 













Yes this one has an Mbira built into it, which I think is fucking cool  There are soundclips and what not on his website


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 18, 2012)

I have a Giannini and I really like it.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 18, 2012)

It would be great if Yamaha, who makes good inexpensive classical guitars, would manufacture a 7 string. Then it would be much easier for people to try one out without having to spend a fortune or deal with a somewhat shady company. They make everything else on the face of the planet, why not add a string to their guitars?


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## median (Oct 18, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> Bartolex build lots of these, pretty cheap for what they are if I remember rightly.
> Home Page
> BartolexUSA -- Bartolex, Milagro & Cathedral 10-String, 11-String, 8-String, & 7-String Classical Harp Guitars
> I can't find the nice webpage that I used to look at though.
> ...



These guitars look awesome for the money. WOW. Although, it looks like their all sold! LOL. I want a 7 or 8 string.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 18, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> Eric of XEN Stringed Instruments guitars has a bunch of cool classical ERG stuff on his website.
> 
> I believe he does up to a ten string design. While I've yet to receive an instrument from him, I can vouch, he has the best communication of any Guitar builder I've encountered. I have a ten string electric on order.
> 
> Another plus is that, to my knowledge, Tom of the Oakland Axe Factory is doing the building of the guitars and people here can vouch he is killer builder. IMO His ten string neck carve feel as nice as my eight string.



+1 

Eric is the man. Want a XEN when tax time rolls around...


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## F4R537KTP09 (Oct 18, 2012)

Giannini seems nice and with fair prices too...
Heard THIS and... Wow...
Extended range classicals?
F**k yeah!!!


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## median (Oct 18, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> +1
> 
> Eric is the man. Want a XEN when tax time rolls around...



His site only has 10 strings.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 18, 2012)

median said:


> His site only has 10 strings.



Look at the detailed specs page. You can get 7 - 10.


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## median (Oct 18, 2012)

Which is better, Xen or Bartolex?


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 18, 2012)

No one has a XEN yet. They're brand new. First run is supposed to ship right after the new year I think.


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## median (Oct 18, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> No one has a XEN yet. They're brand new. First run is supposed to ship right after the new year I think.



Oh I see. Well how does anyone know they are good then? lol...


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## Bigfan (Oct 18, 2012)

median said:


> Oh I see. Well how does anyone know they are good then? lol...



Because Eric is such a cool guy.


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## no_dice (Oct 18, 2012)

I used to GAS for a harp guitar, but as of now, I would be happier with an 8 or 9 string acoustic in a sweet open tuning. It would be awesome if something like that was a little more accessible.


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## Winspear (Oct 18, 2012)

Just one thing I thought I'd mention that I'm sure many are aware of already..
Extended range classicals are usually tuned differently to ER electrics. For example an 8 string might have a low D and a C, to allow steps down in the bass on open strings. 
Just something to be aware of incase you are watching somebody hit the low string in a video and thinking "That F# sounds awesome!"  
I am quite unsure of the sound of anything below A on a classical which is why the guitar I mentioned in my post earlier will only go down to A rather than E on a 9 string.


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## XEN (Oct 18, 2012)

We do have nylon stringed chambered electrics on the way, hopefully mid to late next year, but in the meantime I have heard great things about the Bartolex stuff. I've been eyeballing them myself since I'm trying to get my chops up a little so I can demo my own dang instruments once they're built! lol


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## Cremated (Oct 19, 2012)

I know i'll be grabbing a XEN Acoustic/electric 8 string after I get my money back up, after the OAF run. Eric's designs are genius. Can't wait to see them actually built.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 19, 2012)

median said:


> Oh I see. Well how does anyone know they are good then? lol...



They're being built by OAF--a reputable builder.


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## Hybrid138 (Oct 19, 2012)

I so want a Bartolex 7!


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## Winspear (Oct 19, 2012)

Some useful info on anyone thinking about tuning above high E..
After some experiments last night, I don't think it's very practical. G# 24.75 on my Vik is no problem, but I couldn't get thin nylon strings to get above E without breaking. Nylons at .018 or so which would be a good gauge for G# are just too weak. 
As it is I am using the following 7 string set in drop G# - D'addario singles, rectified nylon trebles and silverwound nylon basses. The tensions are perfect  Looks real light but it's perfect for nylon - for the record I like 21-18lbs on electric.

28.6875 Nyl056w 15.4lbs
28.12500 nyl042w 15.1lbs 
27.5625 nyl033w 15.2lbs 
27 nyl026w 13.7lbs 
26.4375 nyl041 11.8lbs
25.87500 nyl033 11.6lbs
25.315 nyl024 10.5lbs

EDIT: I am sure F or F# would be no problem with a gauge slightly thinner than the high E, but I don't think anything higher than that.


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## median (Oct 20, 2012)

I usually don't buy a guitar unless I play and hear it first. I wonder if there is a place that sells these extended range classicals in SOCAL.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 20, 2012)

It is very hard to find an extended range classical guitar in a store. John Dearman is a member of the LAGQ and he plays a 7 string. You might try emailing him to see if he has any ideas of where to try one out.


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## LordCashew (Oct 20, 2012)

A northern California luthier named Greg Byers makes some phenomenal 7-strings, and probably the best classical guitars I've heard in person.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 21, 2012)

I've been busy talking my friend into building a 7 string with Martin factory parts. It would be a steel string but I'm sure it would be killer based on the 6'ers he's building currently. He's only asking between $1300- $1600 for the 6 strings so I imagine the 7's would go be in the same ballpark.


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## median (Oct 21, 2012)

LordIronSpatula said:


> A northern California luthier named Greg Byers makes some phenomenal 7-strings, and probably the best classical guitars I've heard in person.



Do you know what he charges? Does he have a website? 

Thx


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## Given To Fly (Oct 21, 2012)

Greg Byers makes great guitars! I didn't know he had built any 7 strings. His price is $9500 without any options and I believe there is a waiting list. His guitars on the used market seem to be in the same price range.


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## Durero (Oct 21, 2012)

median said:


> Do you know what he charges? Does he have a website?
> 
> Thx



I've met him and can vouch that he's a very nice person. Unfortunately for me he was up here in Canada on holiday and didn't bring any guitars with him.

He builds very serious high end guitars for top level players.

Gregory Byers' Classical Guitars


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## LordCashew (Oct 22, 2012)

Given To Fly said:


> Greg Byers makes great guitars! I didn't know he had built any 7 strings. His price is $9500 without any options and I believe there is a waiting list. His guitars on the used market seem to be in the same price range.



I know of one 7 string he built for a guy in my area named Matt Grasso. I'm not sure if there are others or if it's something he does on a regular basis. One of my teacher's other students had a Byers 6 string and for my taste, it was the best classical guitar I've ever heard. It was very powerful and clear, kind of a clean, modern-sounding instrument. Blew me away every time I heard it!

I was always curious about his prices. There's no way I could afford one but they're well worth it IMO.

When I was studying classical a local luthier recommended a guy named Alejandro Cervantes. He's located in southern California IIRC and makes seven-strings. I never had a chance to play one, unfortunately. 

I ultimately ended up with a Giannini 5/7 which is decent for the price and more than adequate for a bass player like me to occasionally fool around on. But the sound and workmanship definitely aren't comparable to most of the guitars I and others have mentioned in this thread, or the Michael Thames six I used to play.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 23, 2012)

I haven't heard of Alejandri Cervantes. I have heard of Cervantes but they are more of a guitar company than individual luthier.  
There are so many great classical guitar luthiers out there its becoming hard to keep track of them. Another luthier that has been rather innovative is Gary Southwell. He is the only luthier to get away with building a guitar with a cutaway and still be taken seriously be the classical guitar community. This is the guitar: Southwell Guitars - A Series Guitar I got to play one and the adjustable fretboard is awesome, as is the cutaway. The tone was nothing to write home about though but I would give up some tone for a guitar that easy to play!


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## Stan P (Nov 18, 2012)

Try Wes Lambe at wlguitars.com he has got one (nylon, not classical, with midi) for sale right now. Pickups make more sense than acoustic amplification for low tunned nylon string.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Nov 18, 2012)

I'd definitely check out the Bartolex stuff, they seem to get good reviews by owners and have a really reasonable price tag. I've been trying to convince my acoustic building friend to put together a 7 or 8 string steel string sometime but that may end up costing more than the Bartolex.


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## Winspear (Nov 19, 2012)

Stan P said:


> Try Wes Lambe at wlguitars.com he has got one (nylon, not classical, with midi) for sale right now. Pickups make more sense than acoustic amplification for low tunned nylon string.



Awesome. Very similar to a build I have coming up, even has the dual midi 
I'd be totally tempted to buy it if I didn't know mine will look 10x more badass


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## facepalm66 (Nov 19, 2012)

That's a regular 7 string tuned from B to E or a Russian 7 string with open G major?


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## jack_cat (Jan 17, 2014)

My seven string classical was made by Salvador Castillo. 
He has built a number of extended range classicals (including my new fanned fret 9.) 
- j


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## Durero (Jan 17, 2014)

^ Pics?!

Sounds awesome! Let us see them


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## Given To Fly (Jan 17, 2014)

Interestingly enough, this thread may have more relevance soon...


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## Winspear (Jan 18, 2014)

I got a Bartolex 25.5-27.5 8 string last week  
It's everything I hoped for and much more. I'm working on an arrangement to record soon. I'm tuning to ADGCFADG (actually A#D#G# on top, perfect fourths..). Absolutely perfect to play.
The same model is available in 25.5-23.5 or so.


Also interested to see the multiscale 9! What's it tuned to?


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## aumathius (Jan 18, 2014)

no idea if its good or not, but thomann has an 8 string - (they did used to stock a 7 string version as well, but doesnt look like they do anymore)
Tenayo CG471/8


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## Durero (Jan 18, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> I got a Bartolex 25.5-27.5 8 string last week
> It's everything I hoped for and much more. I'm working on an arrangement to record soon. I'm tuning to ADGCFADG (actually A#D#G# on top, perfect fourths..). Absolutely perfect to play.
> The same model is available in 25.5-23.5 or so.



All 4ths FTW!!! 

Don't be a tease - show us some pics! 

Why am I not surprised that you've got an 8 - string fanned classical?


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## Winspear (Jan 19, 2014)

Durero said:


> All 4ths FTW!!!
> 
> Don't be a tease - show us some pics!
> 
> Why am I not surprised that you've got an 8 - string fanned classical?



 Made the move to 4ths just days ago. 

I've wanted one for a good while! I absolutely love nylon strings. The original plan was to do a semihollow 9 piezo with my next ViK slot but;
1) $$$$$
2) The queue situation
3) I want to do something else with my slot
4) Impatience 
I also decided this would sound better anyway and I can live without the low E. 

I will make an NGD soon but I wanted to wait until I finish arranging and record a piece which might be a little while...
Pics here though!
NEW Bartolex 8-String Guitar SPS8FCEL + Case

Mine doesn't have the soundport on the side which is a shame but not fussed, I got a good discount!

This is one of those guitars that you just want to pick up and sit around and play all day, and can do at any place. Love it.


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## Durero (Jan 19, 2014)

Sweet!
Nice design.


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## Winspear (Jan 19, 2014)

My only complaint is that the resonance and sustain is _so_ good that blending in the internal mic with the piezo is utterly impossible when playing at even the slightest volumes  Nearly deafened myself multiple times whilst trying to ring out the feedback haha


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## Chuck (Jan 19, 2014)

^ how much are those? I couldn't find a price on that link


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## Winspear (Jan 20, 2014)

This is where you want to look for stock 
BartolexUSA -- Bartolex, Milagro & Cathedral 10-String, 11-String, 8-String, & 7-String Classical Harp Guitars
Don't think there's any on there at the moment.

However I got mine direct from Neris Gonzalez, owner of Bartolex, in Spain. About $2.2k usually I think.


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## jack_cat (Jun 8, 2015)

I've been living with my extended range classicals since I got the 7 in 2012 and the prototype-FF-9 in 2013. The 7 is a straight-fret at 25-1/2", (or 650mm) the classical standard. I have it with a low B in addition to standard 6 tuning. Now that I can compare the low B with a longer low B, it sounds a little tubby compared to the longer one - so I think, now that I'm into fanned frets, that any 7 string classical should have fanned frets in order to get a little more length into the low basses. The low F# on my 9 was not satisfactory, so it is now an 8 with the lowest B at 26-3/4, and I like that a lot!

jack


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## jack_cat (Jun 29, 2015)

Durero said:


> ^ Pics?!
> 
> Sounds awesome! Let us see them



I don't have a pic of the 7 handy but here is the prototype nine. (Tuned F#1 - A4). I have posted my complaints about the prototype 9, and hopes for the next build in other threads. 

the 7 is my regular work guitar, looks like a standard classical except I have PegHed tuners on it which look like wooden clavijas but have 4-1 gears inside. I am not sure that 4-1 is so good for the low bass strings, may look for another option - Schertler? but that's another subject. 
- jack


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