# Help with an annoying harmonic ring when palm muting under high gain



## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

I know I'm not the only one on here with this issue, as I noticed in another thread. Figured this common issue might warrant a thread of its own. 

As the title suggests, on one of my guitars (Ibby 7 string with d-activators) whenever I palm mute heavily and pick in a certain area to get more of a metallic attack going, as soon as I stop the note, this annoying harmonic/metallic ring occurs, which is a real nuisance. In drop A, the sound is worse when fretting the 1st fret as a powerchord, and becomes less the higher up the fretboard I go. 
I've tried lowering the pickup, lowering the gain (helps slightly but means I have less gain than I would like), muting and/or picking in different areas, muting the strings behind the nut etc. Everything only partially helps though. Picking and muting in different areas gets rid of it, but also means I can't get that metallic and aggressive attack I want, which just then means it's this more muddy and round sounding palm mute and attack. Not aggressive at all.

I don't have the same issue on my 6 string with an 81 in the bridge, I can mute and pick heavily to get a more metallic and aggressive attack (dare I say the d-word?) out of it no problem, no noise, and a full sounding palm mute underneath it.

Now, is this a pickup problem, a technique problem, too much gain, EQ settings, or anything else you can come up with? Help would be greatly appreciated!


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 26, 2017)

What guitar is it? Upload a clip so we can get an idea of the noise.


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## Sumsar (Feb 26, 2017)

Does the guitar in question have a tremolo or is it a hardtail?


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/stijn_bos/annoying-ring-test[/SC]

Bear in mind, this is my best profile for this problem (I use a Kemper), there are loads of profiles on which the problem is much more noticeable. As you might be able to hear, on an open drop A power chord, I can chug, palm mute heavily and really dig in with my pick, without any real problems. When doing the same on the 1st fret the ring/feedback occurs. Im also moving my hand in this little clip to see if it dissapears/worsens. 

Maybe its an action problem? Even though this is a cheaper Ibby and its not that low?

It's an Ibanez RG7321, with a Dimarzio D-Activator in the bridge, and hardtail btw!


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## Sumsar (Feb 26, 2017)

First of all it sounds like you are using too much gain which is making the problem bigger. So less gain should help a bit.

Secondly you have to use your left hand (assuming you are right handed) to mute as well. This is pretty easy when chugging open strings as the left hand is not doing anything but when you are fretting it gets harder.
Try this: in between the chugs on say the 1st fret, release the fingers a bit so that they still touch the string but is not fretting the string if that makes sense?

So gain and lefthanded muting technique I would say.


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

The gain could be turned down yeah, i left it up so the problem is more audible. Then again I use this exact profile on my 6 string without any problems whatsoever. But hey, maybe the d-activators are just higher output then the emgs. Yet I still need the gain and a lot of effort to get that sound I want, its much easier to achieve on my 6 for example. Without really trying. 
I mute with both hands when needed ofcourse, but considering that this occurs on the 1st fret on the 7 string, yet not, or less on other strings, and not at all on my 6, using the same technique Im doubting if the problem lies there. But ill test some more bearing your recommendations in mind!


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## newamerikangospel (Feb 26, 2017)

Edited: I didn't read the whole thread and look for sound clips

Maybe a high fret is being hit by the string somewhere, causing weird harmonics to start. What happens if you hit the strings hard on those chords then let them ring? Does a harmonic "bloom"? I get that "hollow" thunk type of sound on a guitar with 9s+64 when I play because My right hand digs way too much and the string jumps off the 24th fret (I normally play 11s+74).


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## Sumsar (Feb 26, 2017)

I asked and he said hardtail, so it's not the springs which was my first idea as well 

Another thing to bare in mind is that active and passive pickups needs to be dialed in pretty differently, atleast in my experience, also 6 and 7 string are also totally different when it comes to dialing in the tone. On a 6 you can get away with dialing in a ton of bass before it becomes an issue, whereas with a 7 you have to be much more conservative with the low-end.
Who knows, maybe the profile you are using was dialed in with a 6 string and has a ton of bass and resonance, which is then reflected in the profile.

You can't really expect the same tone / profile to work well for both passive, active, 6 and 7 string guitars. So maybe take the same profile but set everything to 12 o'clock and dial it in only playing the 7 string you got.

Also if your 7 is a hardtail but your 6 has a trem, the bottom end will be wastly different.


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## MetalHead40 (Feb 26, 2017)

Is this guitar a string through body?


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

Yes its string through body.

Thanks for the responses Sumsar! Kamelåså! 
I know the same profiles don't work for 2 totally different guitars, but I just meant it as a comparison to the 6. The thing is this issue is profile wide, so to speak. It happens on all of my good high gain profiles for this guitar. But on none of my profiles which I use when playing my 6 string. The one in the demo just happens to work well with both, but using different OD settings in front. But trust me, I have tweaked profiles, scrolled through and tested the over 400 high gain profiles I own, and it's always there. I will say this though, on some profiles I might even get the feedback noise when palm muting in different chord positions. (fret 1,2 3 etc).
But the noise just doesn't seem correct to me, like there's something wrong with the electronics. Or with me... lol

I have an OD in front too, and a noise gate from the kemper. The Od is a Bad Monkey; classic settings, no drive, unison volume, boost the highs, and I have the bass knob turned down to about 7 0'clock to make the bottom end usuable, by comparison, for my 6 string I generally have this at noon or 11 o'clock. Besides, I think when playing normal chords, riffs, leads etc the tone is good and not to boomy or weird in character.


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## Sumsar (Feb 26, 2017)

Kamelåså!

Davs!

I live in Copenhagen but atm I actually work in Hyllie / Malmö and people from Skåne is like worse than danish people.
For me this is how I hear what they are saying:



I recently visited Stockholm and I find that dialect a lot easy to understand.

#########

Back to your issue though. I am kind of running out of ideas about what could be wrong. 
I own a RG7321 myself which has a dimarzio Evolution in the bridge.
I wouldn't say I have the same problem, but the guitar does have a sh!t ton of low end going on. At rehearsals I run it through an Engl powerball which has a depth boost, which I usually have on and turned up quite a bit, but with this guitar I need to turn it off, else having my riffs turn into a muddy mess.

Maybe a silly idea but:
Since your issue seems to be at a fixed note, could it be that you are hitting a room mode? As in that that note has constructive interference in your room / sitting position?
Try only using headphones and turn the cab off.. does the problem persist? Try and change the tuning of the guitar like half step up or down, is the problem at the same fret or has it changed position?


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## MetalHead40 (Feb 26, 2017)

Stijnson said:


> Yes its string through body.
> 
> ^^^
> If you already have the strings muted above the nut like you said, try sticking some foam, cotton, or similar material in each through body string hole. This could be another source of unwanted harmonics.


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

Love that video! Im from the Netherlands myself but I live in Sweden , and yeah the Stockholm dialect is much clearer and articulate. But I figured if anyone can understand Skånska it should be the Danes! But apparently no one can hehe. Just be careful you don't end up randomly buying a 1000L of milk!

Back o.t;
I'll keep trying stuff, ill tune it up and down and keep testing. See what the results are, maybe purposely make it worse to at least find out what is causing the issue. Kind of like surgical EQing in a mix i guess. I have got foam under the strings behind the nut, and now even a sock in case the foam wasn't helping. But the sock didn't do anything different. Ill try you're suggestion too MetalHead! Pickup height is about 5mm from the low B string btw. Is that maybe too high? Can't seem to screw them down much more.

PS: Love the Emperor vibe in your music Sumsar!


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## Sumsar (Feb 26, 2017)

Nope and the Skåne people can't understand Danish either  Though I think Skånsk is a weird mix of Swedish and Danish.
1000L of milk would not be that bad - have you also had the experience that swedish people make crazy strong coffee? I could easily use the 1000L of milk to thin out my coffee in a week.

Good idea with muting the string part through the body and also the surgical EQing.

Yeah I love Emperor too, and its nice that people can actually hear it in my music.
Not to blatantly self promote but here is a cover I did some weeks ago:



Your playing is pretty cool too, though you could use a better camera for your videos  (I don't have one either, I borrowed a friends to make some vids a month ago)


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

Awesome cover dude, I think I have a terribly filmed cover of it on some old hard drive too. That song was my goal when I first started playing guitar (that and Dissections Night's Blood) and the live video is the reason I wanted (and got) a Jackson Soloist! Although it's safe to say I butchered that song in my early days. Good for my tremolo picking though!

I generally think the coffee is terrible here tbh, so yes milk and sugar helps haha. 

Recently got a go-pro, so ill end up refreshing my youtube and spam it with some of my music/covers and random skateboarding.

Hopefully with some un-noisy 7 string songs too!


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## Aymara (Feb 26, 2017)

In another forum someone had a strange buzzing and after a long discussion, he found out, that it was caused by the pickup selector switch.


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## Stijnson (Feb 26, 2017)

Well the thing is, this guitar came with stock pickups, with which I don't recall having this issue. Although I'm not totally sure either. But it definitely became immediately noticeable after the pickup change. Which could also be because I played the guitar more. 

I just did some more testing;

- Turned the bass on my Kemper all the way down: Noise still there.
- Turned the bass all the way up: still the same, albeit slightly more.
- Turned the gain way down, on the verge of not a nice tone for metal: no change
- Took out the OD pedal from the chain: unboosted the noise is not really there, but then again, the tone is unusable for modern metal. 
- Turned on the OD in the kemper instead: noise returns. 
- Lowered the bridge PU: no change
- Used the neck pickup: same thing!
- Chugged and picked hard while my palm rests on the bridge (so no palm muting) then moving it onto the strings to start muting and it returns. 


So in short; The noise occurs on the low B string only, and when palm muting and picking in the position that is considered ideal for palm muting, if it wasn't for the noise that is. I can go further back or forwards with my palm but this results in a more muddy palm mute (backwards), or a very tiny sounding one (more forwards). Palm muting more forwards towards the neck, also increases the noise.

It occurs on both pickups, and the OD or amps EQ and gain settings don't create the noise.

Running out of ideas here. Should I just take it to a tech and let him check the wiring, pots, pickup selector, if the PU change was done properly etc?


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## Carl Kolchak (Feb 26, 2017)

Maybe it's the nut? The fret itself?


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## cip 123 (Feb 26, 2017)

Change strings? Pickup springs? Electronics?

Quick solution is just stop using fret 1 on your B. Fixed!


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## Aymara (Feb 27, 2017)

It happens only on the first fret of the low B string in Drop A tuning? Then it seems to be an unwanted resonance and should not be there in B Standard tuning.

Did you try that?

And if it really occured after the pickup change, you should search the resonance here ... as said above ... check pickup springs and electronics.


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## Stijnson (Feb 27, 2017)

Aymara said:


> It happens only on the first fret of the low B string in Drop A tuning? Then it seems to be an unwanted resonance and should not be there in B Standard tuning.
> 
> Did you try that?
> 
> And if it really occured after the pickup change, you should search the resonance here ... as said above ... check pickup springs and electronics.



Unfortunately it occurs the most at the 1st fret in drop A, but it also happens on fret 2,3 and little on 4. Ill check the pickup springs later this week, but what will tell me that theyre the culprate? Should i stick some foam under them and just test?


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## USMarine75 (Feb 27, 2017)

FWIW... I've seen it with the string end above the nut or the pickup springs and even the pickup if its floating mounted and it's so high that there's not a lot of tension in the mount. My RG1077XL was notorious for string vibration above the nut coming through the signal chain.


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## Aymara (Feb 27, 2017)

Stijnson said:


> Unfortunately it occurs the most at the 1st fret in drop A, but it also happens on fret 2,3 and little on 4.



And neck relief is sufficient?



> Should i stick some foam under them and just test?



Might it be this?


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