# BreakDown tips



## TheDemonic (May 22, 2012)

Hello, 

Im a guitarist and i play deathcore and djent im just wondering how to play a breakdown at its best. I mean the best picking and hand positions and how to physically move when you play it, does anyone have a idea?


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## BlindingLight7 (May 22, 2012)

0---000-0-0000-0-00-00-00-00000-1-0-1-2-3-8-8-8-9-0-9-0-0-0-9-0-9-03-0-8888














In seriousness, I find this a really good "method".


The Arbiter Method (How to Make a Breakdown) - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pokzcNGx-3Q


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## Waelstrum (May 22, 2012)

The way I see it, a breakdown isn't a breakdown if it is in isolation, it's just a slow riff. To make an affective breakdown, it has to be an interruption of the expected flow of the song (hence breakdown). This can be done simply by playing a previously fast riff slower (although this is not compulsory, I think it is nice to have some cohesion with the rest of the piece). You probably want to make it heavier too, so play it thicker as well. By that I mean use power chords if it was a single note riff, or double the octaves on it if it was a power chord riff (and heavy palm muting). You also should play it in a lower register than it was before, which means when you were playing it fast, don't always play on the lowest two strings. This way you can create contrast. By being less heavy before the breakdown, you can make the breakdown itself more effective. It is also more effective if it isn't obvious that a breakdown is coming just before it. Another way to make a breakdown more effective is to have it modulate to a key that is not closely related to the key you were playing in just before, as it helps with the unexpectedness of it. The key to an effective breakdown is not to simply have a slow riff that stands on its own, but to make it work as a part of the song.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 22, 2012)

My breakdown tip? Dont.


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## Winspear (May 22, 2012)

I'm guessing this thread is a joke, right?



7 Strings of Hate said:


> My breakdown tip? Dont.




I remember showing somebody Jetpacks Was Yes - his comment was "Where is the breakdown and why is there a guitar solo?" - Forgive me if I'm wrong but there's a perfectly decent breakdown at the end of the song..just happens to consist of more than one note 

I think When The Moment's Gone by SikTh has the best breakdown I've ever heard at 4:10 - 4:50. With those vocals it's such an intense section that sends chills down my spine listening to the song as a whole.


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## ChronicConsumer (May 22, 2012)

The power of contrast. See, if your entire song (or entire discography) consists of a bunch of chained up brutal riffs and breakdowns, it becomes boring and the breakdown loses most of its impact.

Therefore, I suggest either working up to it (go clean for a while, add a solo, a moderately heavy riff that slowly gets heavier.. and heavier... and heavier.. and then BOOOM!) or position it as such that it completely knocks you off your feet. Or something else, really, whatever you think's the best choice.


As for the actual playing, I tend to just groove around (so definitely not mostly on) the beats the drummer is playing with a lot of staccato, 16th note triplets, minor thirds and 'accidental' chromatic seconds and thirds. Oh and don't forget to use a lot of noise. Harmonics, pick scrapes, slides, go wild.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 22, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> I remember showing somebody Jetpacks Was Yes - his comment was "Where is the breakdown and why is there a guitar solo?"


He complained that there was a guitar solo?


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## right_to_rage (May 22, 2012)

Syncopated rhythms, lots of low open notes, and rests (space, silence). The best breakdowns are dynamic, which makes them more crushing.


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## broj15 (May 22, 2012)

first tip for making a good breakdown: DO NOT write it in 4/4. thats been done god knows how many times and is extremely boring. 
Second Tip: Oddly placed down strokes. I like to put downstrokes in places where you would expect to hear an up stroke, making making things sound more chaotic, and also making it more interesting to play.
Tip three: Add it cool, fust runs on the lower strings. one of my faves that I have put in one of my songs goes like this.

I--------------------------------------------I
I--------------------------------------------I
I--------------------------------------------I
I--------------------------------------------I 
I--------------------------------------------I
I-----------------------0-h-5-h-8-----------I
I--0-h-4-h-7-0-h-5-h-8----------------------I 

I just play all those as 32nd notes and it does a decent job of spicing things up a bit.

4th Tip: Don't just base it off the open note. Sometimes I use 3 or 4 different notes to write a breakdown. Also switch it up from dirty chords (for a drop A 7 it would be low fretted at the first, low E played open) to straight open notes to add a different dimmension to things. I also like to combine some of this with slams to give it a different feel. 

Tip # 5: Use dissonant chords. Whether you use them to make things more choppy and chaotic, or the other guitarist plays it while you play the breakdown, thus adding a cool atmospheric sound, they can be used to make things more interesting.
Final Tip: Don't over use breakdowns. Don't put 4 or 5 mediocre breakdowns into a song when you could put 1 or 2 cool breakdowns in a song. 

As far as where to palm mute all I can telly you is to experiment. The "correct" place to palm mute (as in where it sounds best to be) is different on all my guitars, and as far as movement is concerned here is my one bit of advice: Don't. Fucking. Crabcore. It looks stupid and will do nothing but attach your image to the rest of the bands who crabcore, which would be bad. 

I usually just assume a wide stance, firmly plant my feat, lower myself ever so slightly, and use my headmovements as a metronome to keep time: big nod on beat 1, slight nod on "and", big nod again on beat 2, slight nod on "and" etc. etc.


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## iRaiseTheDead (May 22, 2012)

+1 for the Arbiter Method


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 22, 2012)

check around 1:50 on this..

Hatebreed "Everyone Bleeds Now" - YouTube


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## Sikthness (May 22, 2012)

Once you come up w/ whatever series of -
0-0-0-00-0000-00-000-000-000000
0-0-0-00-0000-00-000-111-111111 you will invariably be using, throw in this cool sounding chord:

e-0
b-0
g-0
d-
a-
D- but pick it like you are doing a pinched harmonic. It will sound super brute and kinda give your breakdown an Ion Dissonance-ish feel. Maybe throw in some bends on the '1s'. Then do one of those rake techniques that's really popular these days. I will except cash or paypal for my songwriting contributions.


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## Winspear (May 22, 2012)

All_¥our_Bass;3019830 said:


> He complained that there was a guitar solo?



Yeah, I wasn't surprised. Think about it - none of these breakdown bands have guitar solos. Breakdowns are the new guitar solo it seems. That's what everyone is waiting for, rather than back in the 80's when they were waiting for the solo (I wasn't around then but I presume that's how it worked ). 
A lot of these breakdown kids seem to view solos as old fashioned or something, unless it's some kind of sweeping thing - can maybe get away with that.


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## Waelstrum (May 22, 2012)

Born of Osiris and All Shall Perish have both solos and breakdowns.

And are we forgetting Dream Theater?

The outro could be considered an early example of a breakdown.


and

5:53 is a breakdown


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## Winspear (May 22, 2012)

^ For sure, I mean the type of breakdown that is generally meant when people use that word these days. Bands like Emmure etc. Which is why I called them 'breakdown bands' because their music seems to involve nothing else.


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## Waelstrum (May 22, 2012)

Fair enough. Just as an aside, you can find plenty of breakdowns in classical music as well, they just call it rhythmic augmentation. Even though I don't really like most music that is based around the idea that a song is a vehicle for a breakdown, I think that they can work quite well when used appropriately (and sparingly).


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## Winspear (May 22, 2012)

For sure! I've been familiar with the term breakdown for a long time, it didn't mean a bunch of open notes to me until probably 2010 or so. I think it's often the term for 'middle 8' in pop music? That bit after the chorus halfway through the song where the feel changes up...
My favourite breakdown (or what I think of as being a breakdown) I mentioned earlier:

I think When The Moment's Gone by SikTh has the best breakdown I've ever heard at 4:10 - 4:50. With those vocals it's such an intense section that sends chills down my spine listening to the song as a whole.


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## theleem (May 23, 2012)

BlindingLight7 said:


> In seriousness, I find this a really good "method".
> 
> 
> The Arbiter Method (How to Make a Breakdown) - YouTube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pokzcNGx-3Q



I'm not a big fan of breakdowns myself, but whenever I write a song that needs one, I tend to use the Arbiter method.


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## TheDemonic (May 23, 2012)

Also im having trouble palm muting, such as it has no ring at all or a really bad ring to it can anyone help me with this?


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## Winspear (May 23, 2012)

Position your hand closer to the bridge and find the right amount of pressure for the sustain you want. Hitting it before you mute, but all in one action, can create a nice 'growl'


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## Gabe_LTD (May 23, 2012)

iRaiseTheDead said:


> +1 for the Arbiter Method





The arbiter method is awesome but this rob chappers lesson really helps a lot for that sorta stuff.


LEarning asking alexandria, A day to remember, and other bands that make simple breakdowns is another way to get good at breakdowns. haha


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## asher (May 24, 2012)

Between the Buried and Me - White Walls (FULL VERSION WITH LYRICS) HD quality!! - YouTube

Because linking the whole song is a lot to digest for just one clip (though it's awesome, and really helps with the contrast thing) but the breakdown at 9:49 is freaking great.


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 1, 2012)

My idea of a good breakdown was always that you play a riff you've already played but just a *little* bit different than you heard it last time. Something that makes the listener think... "Hey that riff sounds familiar!" but instead of playing it with the same feel as the last time you play it in a feel that grooves HEAVILY.

I feel like a lot of breakdowns now only focus on the groove aspect and throw the song-cohesion part right out the window. It's not *that* heavy when literally everyone does it.


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## wrongnote85 (Jun 1, 2012)

check this one out at around the 1:50 mark and on. well, really just listen to the whole song.

Immenent Death - YouTube


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## niffnoff (Jun 1, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ For sure, I mean the type of breakdown that is generally meant when people use that word these days. Bands like Emmure etc. Which is why I called them 'breakdown bands' because their music seems to involve nothing else.










I seriously hope one day the "modern" deathcore moves out of the breakdown for a song or samey sounding one. 

The prog scene nails their breakdowns with some extra effects and notes. 

The common formula seems to be, 16th note patterns followed by dissonance followed by diminished run (5-8-4-7-3-6). Why not add some minor or major Arpeggios. I believe The Human Abstract did one in Faust I think it was and by god it was sweet


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## SirMyghin (Jun 1, 2012)

BlindingLight7 said:


> In seriousness, I find this a really good "method".
> 
> 
> The Arbiter Method (How to Make a Breakdown) - YouTube



I sincerely hope that video is intended only for humourous purposes (as it seems to be presented as such). 

What ever happened to actually thinking and planning what you are doing, the last thing I do when song writing is go to consult the bones


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## GunpointMetal (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't see much of a difference between that and picking a time signature and forcing yourself to write something in it, which to me is a perfectly reasonable way to approach composition, especially if you're at a creative impass.


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 1, 2012)

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't see much of a difference between that and picking a time signature and forcing yourself to write something in it, which to me is a perfectly reasonable way to approach composition, especially if you're at a creative impass.



Fair point. Forcing constraints on yourself and then trying to figure out how to be creative within said contraints is a good way to learn new stuff. It's what I do at work all day. We need you to make server A send stuff to server B w/o using ____. 

It's typically tedious but I always end up learning something new that I can apply to future assignments. Likewise I bet you could do something similar with music.

Approaching composition that way may come across a bit nerdy, but I guess it all depends on what your goals are...?


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## MartinMTL (Jun 1, 2012)

asher said:


> Between the Buried and Me - White Walls (FULL VERSION WITH LYRICS) HD quality!! - YouTube
> 
> Because linking the whole song is a lot to digest for just one clip (though it's awesome, and really helps with the contrast thing) but the breakdown at 9:49 is freaking great.



That is one of the most tasteful heavy breakdowns that I know. BTBAM usually know when to use breakdowns (in the sense of open string chugging).


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## sleightest (Jun 1, 2012)

How to Get Signed to Rise Records! - Galactic Pegasus - YouTube


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## niffnoff (Jun 1, 2012)

sleightest said:


> How to Get Signed to Rise Records! - Galactic Pegasus - YouTube



I lost my shit at 
"Oh what a shock another breakdown, I wonder what could be next"


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 1, 2012)

That guy filled in for the breakdowncore band im in


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## TheKindred (Jun 1, 2012)

^^ Too funny. My buddy just started drumming for them.


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## FarBeyondMetal (Jun 1, 2012)

BlindingLight7 said:


> In seriousness, I find this a really good "method".
> 
> 
> The Arbiter Method (How to Make a Breakdown) - YouTube


 

Entertaining and enlightening video, pretty damn cool


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## SirMyghin (Jun 1, 2012)

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't see much of a difference between that and picking a time signature and forcing yourself to write something in it, which to me is a perfectly reasonable way to approach composition, especially if you're at a creative impass.




The difference is that time signature is a pretty small part of the equation, where that is paint by numbers.


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## Waelstrum (Jun 1, 2012)

^It can be a good exercise to put strict limits on yourself (such as the rhythm/pitch/form/etc.). Not all music has to be a 'proper' piece, sometimes you can just write something to practice writing. The theory is that if you can make something sound good when there are heavy restrictions, when you try writing without restrictions, ideas will come more naturally and you will develop them better.


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## SirMyghin (Jun 1, 2012)

Waelstrum said:


> ^It can be a good exercise to put strict limits on yourself (such as the rhythm/pitch/form/etc.). Not all music has to be a 'proper' piece, sometimes you can just write something to practice writing. The theory is that if you can make something sound good when there are heavy restrictions, when you try writing without restrictions, ideas will come more naturally and you will develop them better.



I know all about restrictions, this is just tossing it all out the window and playing what a deck of cards tell you, you don't even have to think  Etudes can be valuable, but as I said, the leg work is done completely here hence my scoffing at it. It isn't as if you are setting a boundary it is that you are following instructions. Very different animals.

As far as dictating key, or time signature, or harmonic ideas, all of which as much more open to interpretation than a cook book method, and are infact barely limitations at all. 

On a side note, cook books are also for suckers, a general idea of what you are trying to achieve should be enough to get you there


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## Waelstrum (Jun 1, 2012)

I agree with you on cook books, all the best food comes in a can. 

However, while the Arbiter Method does tell you what rhythm to play, when to do a squeally, when to be dissonant, etc... it's not as prescriptive as you might think. the pitch and rhythm for all squeallies, bends, and dissonances are up to you. The rhythm of the numbered cards is set, and the pitch is kind of set (you can choose what to tune the open note to (or it doesn't really have to be open, it you just be a low note)). It really only prescribes the overall form of the breakdown. To take that, and work the material into something that works isn't as paint-by-numbers as it seems at first. It's like a micro-management version of arbitrarily sticking to a specific song structure. Try to look at it as more of a compositional exercise than a compositional technique.

EDIT: I've used the cards drawn from the end of the video to show an example of three different ways you can do the same thing. They're all similar, but different enough to show that there is some wiggle room.


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## shaunduane (Jun 4, 2012)

It just comes naturally to me. I don't see why there has to be a method or something. It's a lot like grooves, it should just come natural and it makes remembering them a lot easier to me. Just my .02.


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## JavierSMedula (Mar 28, 2013)

thanks for this book... man


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## groph (Mar 29, 2013)

As far as coming up with rhythms I guess just keep listening to music and mindlessly jamming on your guitar; you'll come up with stuff accidentally.

On how to pick, check out this video about 3 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwHAxjmIv6o


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2013)

SirMyghin said:


> I know all about restrictions, this is just tossing it all out the window and playing what a deck of cards tell you, you don't even have to think  Etudes can be valuable, but as I said, the leg work is done completely here hence my scoffing at it. It isn't as if you are setting a boundary it is that you are following instructions. Very different animals.
> 
> As far as dictating key, or time signature, or harmonic ideas, all of which as much more open to interpretation than a cook book method, and are infact barely limitations at all.
> 
> On a side note, cook books are also for suckers, a general idea of what you are trying to achieve should be enough to get you there



Ahh, but I see cookbooks similar to looking up the fingerings for a scale you don't know until you commit it to memory, but I might be splitting hairs at this point...

Then again you could always learn the "definition of the scale" (IE - harmonic minor having a raised 7th, etc) and just figure it out from there... And that way you'd almost instantly have more ideas to work with than simply following instructions step by step... Talked myself through it... I get it.


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## WaffleTheEpic (Mar 29, 2013)

Waelstrum said:


> Fair enough. Just as an aside, you can find plenty of breakdowns in classical music as well, they just call it rhythmic augmentation.



Or... you know... a break.


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## guitareben (Mar 29, 2013)




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## Sean Conklin (Mar 29, 2013)

My general 2 cents about breakdowns...Don't force a breakdown into a song when you're songwriting. If it happens, great, but don't insert breakdowns just for the sake of having breakdowns. You want a natural breakdown that compliments the overall song, not forced artificial breakdowns that sound cheesy and cliched. There's already way too much of the latter in music these days!

But yeah as far as actual breakdown tips, study rhythmic displacement.


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