# The 50W transistor that shagged us, And speaker advice.



## Quitty (Jul 21, 2011)

We have a loud drummer. I mean *really *loud 

We're regularly playing a rehearsal room that is a padded basement with a P.A that runs bass-drum triggers, an Ampeg SVT-4 1600W bass head with a 8X10 cab, a Marshall JCM900 and matching cab and a 300W Yamaha SR300G head (SS soldano clone) with a matching 4X12 cab.

To balance out, i've had to crank the JCM so hard it started farting like crazy and the Yamaha amp can stand it, but only with it's volume maxed out.

So yeah, stupid loud. We're a guitar-centric band with one guitarist and we have a bit of an overcompensating bassist .

A couple of days ago i brought along my toy Vox AD50VT 'cause we're playing a show tonight and i didn't know how it would react to cranking it - we are going to mic it but it has to stand out to even reach the PA with all the  going on.

Now, i'll spare you the gory details, mainly because i can't explain this, but the AD50VT can almost match volumes with the Yamaha and 4X12.
*It was holding a rehearsal with an Ampeg SVT-4 and 8X10 with 50W SS and a single 12" speaker.*

So, first things first, i'm awful proud of it 

Second, i was thinking of building an extension cab for it to push it a little farther.
Assuming the current volume's limiting factor is the amp and not the speaker, will plugging in a 2X12 or a 4X12 increase volume, or is it just a headroom thing?
Second, will a 75W rated speaker increase volume, or again, just withstand higher SPLs? Not talking about sensitivity here.

Thanks, either for your help or just for bearing with me this far while i'm giddily ranting


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 21, 2011)

First, lets get the basics out of the way. Wattage and headroom are not what give you volume, at least in a measurable sense. The wattage in relation to speaker surface area (and of course the specs) is what gives you volume. 

Basically, if you increase the number of speakers you're using (thus increasing the surface area of what's moving the air and creating the sound) you'll get more volume, but only up to a certain point, as eventually the amp's wattage (as in it's actual electrical output) won't be driving each individual speaker as hard. 

You'll gain a bit more volume in the mix by adding an extension cab, but don't expect it to do something crazy like double your overall decibel output. 

The biggest factor in getting heard is the EQ. You can be pushing six 4x12s with 500 watts of power, but if you're EQ curve is devoid of highs and mids you'll be lucky if you can be heard over even a modestly heavy drummer and competent bassist. Since you're already pushing your gear, I'd recommend taking a look at your EQ. I've played with some seriously heavy handed (and headed, but I won't go there ) drummers, and even with relatively small amps I've been easily heard, thanks in part to realizing where guitar falls in the mix. The fact that your smaller rig was able to keep up with your larger one showcases that point. 

As for speaker wattage, just like amp wattage (in a relational way, not a functional one exactly) determines clean headroom. The higher the speaker wattage the less breakup of that speaker when pushed. 

Also, if you're drummer is stupid loud, why trigger? If it's just for the sounds mute/stuff the drums and lower the PA channels with the drums.


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## Quitty (Jul 21, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The biggest factor in getting heard is the EQ. You can be pushing six 4x12s with 500 watts of power, but if you're EQ curve is devoid of highs and mids you'll be lucky if you can be heard over even a modestly heavy drummer and competent bassist. Since you're already pushing your gear, I'd recommend taking a look at your EQ. I've played with some seriously heavy handed (and headed, but I won't go there ) drummers, and even with relatively small amps I've been easily heard, thanks in part to realizing where guitar falls in the mix. The fact that your smaller rig was able to keep up with your larger one showcases that point.
> 
> Also, if you're drummer is stupid loud, why trigger? If it's just for the sounds mute/stuff the drums and lower the PA channels with the drums.



Oh, the fine line between writing like an ass**** and being one 
(and just in case this wasn't clear enough - i'm talking about me)

My EQ is live-proof to the point of sounding bad. Too much mids, too little bass. Gain's alright and is pretty low as it were. 
I get by, but i want more latitude with crafting my sound live - which is why i want more volume as it is.

Concerning the triggers, the bass-drum is probably the only thing that falls low. The snare and cymbals, combined with the thin aluminum ventilation pipes and smallish actual playing space in a large room make for shitty acoustics, but there's not much we can do about that.

This is going to be a rough question - but how do i go about finding the balance of wattage and speaker surface?
I know my amp comes in a 2X12 configuration so i'm guessing someone, somewhere, thought another speaker would be a good idea.
I'm also assuming it's not a question you could answer accurately, but just so that i get my bearings - does a JCM900 actually benefit from 4X12, volume-wise?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm sure the lousy acoustics of the room isn't helping anyone. 

There is no magic wattage to speaker ratio as it's really 100% subjective, remember volume doesn't equal tone.


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