# What head compares to a DIEZEL VH4?



## DreamSound (May 13, 2007)

What head compares to a DIEZEL VH4?

This is probably a hard question since there's not that many people lucky enough to try a Diezel VH4 head  .

Of course this my dream amp but I don't have $4,200 coming out of my arse  . However, I do have 2,000 dollars that I will spend towards a head that its ANYWHERE comparable to the Diezel. 

Diezel heads are used by Tool, Chevelle, Linkin Park and that's the type of sound that I'm going for.

Here's a list of the songs in case you are not familiar with the Diezel's signature sound: Diezel Set List


----------



## zimbloth (May 13, 2007)

This will surprise no one, but I'd put the VHT Pittbull UL up there with any amp. The Diezel is cool but the Pittbull's unique tone is my personal favorite.


----------



## budda (May 13, 2007)

just go look at boutique amps for comparison

the pittbull zim mentioned
bogner XTC
splawn?
Mako custom 100 (goooogle)

that's all i can really think of, i dont know of too many high-gain boutique makers


----------



## AVH (May 13, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> This will surprise no one, but I'd put the VHT Pittbull UL up there with any amp. The Diezel is cool but the Pittbull's unique tone is my personal favorite.


----------



## ohio_eric (May 13, 2007)

Are you asking for amps that sound like a Diezel or amps that are of the same quality regardless of tone?


----------



## DeL07 (May 13, 2007)

Nothing is gonna mimic the sound of a Diezel.... that's the thing when you take a look at high end handwired boutique amps, they all have their distinctive tone...

I'd take Zimbloth's advice and look into VHT.... crazy amps!


----------



## LordOVchaoS (May 13, 2007)

DeL07 said:


> Nothing is gonna mimic the sound of a Diezel.... that's the thing when you take a look at high end handwired boutique amps, they all have their distinctive tone...
> 
> I'd take Zimbloth's advice and look into VHT.... crazy amps!



'cept Diezels aren't handwired  PCB... very good PCB but still PCB.


----------



## DeL07 (May 13, 2007)

LordOVchaoS said:


> 'cept Diezels aren't handwired  PCB... very good PCB but still PCB.



Handmade, my bad...


----------



## Rindgecore (May 14, 2007)

Diezel = Not worth the money.


----------



## Regor (May 14, 2007)

Although I never got a chance to play a VH4, I 'have' played a Herbert... and the H&K TriAmp MkII is a WAYYYYY better amp! The tone of the TriAmp was much better than the Herbert. It sounded muddy as shit comparatively.


----------



## Aghorasilat (May 14, 2007)

Rindgecore said:


> Diezel = Not worth the money.



ABSOLUTELY NOT WORTH THE MONEY


----------



## 999dead666 (May 14, 2007)

I think the MARK IV can be compared to it. or BOGNER SHIVA, Iknow this Custom made amplifiers in Poland called MG and i heared some of his models some have the dizel flavor some got the marshall tone. 100 watts head costs 800-900usd


----------



## Stitch (May 14, 2007)

Rindgecore said:


> Diezel = Not worth the money.





Aghorasilat said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT WORTH THE MONEY



Wrong. You mean, "in my opinion" - your blanket statements offer nothing constructive to the thread without any sort of justification. I'd neg rep you but i'm feeling nice. 
Diezels, while expensive, are more victims of the weakness of the US economy versus the Euro or the GBP - A Diezel is still expensive over here, but only about £3~500 more than a Dual Rectifier in the UK. A Diezel VH-4 or Herbert is actually a fair bit cheaper than a Mesa Roadking over here.

The VH-4 really is something special. The tone is incredible and the versatility on offer from thing through the use of MIDI etc. is simply obscene.

My suggestion would be a Herbert over the VH-4 for an even better amp but you don't seem to have the money yet. (Sell a kidney?)

Engl is possibly the closest thing I could suggest of the amps I have tried, but I would really suggest you listen to zimbloth - the guy knows what hes talking about when it comes to anyhting tone related.  I haven't tried any VHT's before so I could not comment on them without some sort of HC bullshit creeping in.


----------



## noodles (May 14, 2007)

I've played a VH-4, and I really don't think it's worth the cost. If I lived in Europe, I'd still feel the exact same way. Honestly, I just don't understand what they hype is over these things, because they're really not all that. I'd take my Mesa over a Diezel any day of the week. I'd also take Nick's VHT, a Bogner, or a Splawn. Hell, I think a 5150 fits better in a band situation than this amp.

I spent a fair amount of time in front of both a VH-4 and a Herbert, and I thought they sounded nice, but not nicer than what I have. The killing blow was when I saw a local band with a DualRec and a VH-4. The guy with the DualRec buried the other guitarist all night long. No amount of knob turning would make that guy heard. The guy took it back to the store and walked out with a Bogner the very next day. He had the amp for a week.



stitch216 said:


> Wrong. You mean, "in my opinion" - your blanket statements offer nothing constructive to the thread without any sort of justification. I'd neg rep you but i'm feeling nice.



Man, I'd get tired of reading "in my opinion" if it was put everywhere it should be. I think what people are guilty of is not taking the time to give a basis for that opinion, like I did above, and yes, a lot of it does have to do with the price. When you drop $4200 on an amp, it damn well better fucking crush a 5150.


----------



## 7StringofAblicK (May 14, 2007)

Hughes and Kettner Triamps fucking rule too  Costly, but not $4200

I've never a/b'ed a VH4 to anything, but i've played one and i did like it. I couldn't say if i like it more than my dual rec because i've not heard it in about 2 years . With that said, i'm too happy with Mesa (spending 1200-1500 bucks) to switch elsewhere yet.


----------



## Stitch (May 14, 2007)

noodles said:


> Man, I'd get tired of reading "in my opinion" if it was put everywhere it should be. I think what people are guilty of is not taking the time to give a basis for that opinion, like I did above, and yes, a lot of it does have to do with the price. When you drop $4200 on an amp, it damn well better fucking crush a 5150.



Thats cool, but what i meant was that since they didnt even quantify their arguments they could have said "IMO" rather than just eaving it open to (mis)interpretation as a "Diezel aRe sux0rs" statement that we should all agree with. 

Ignore me


----------



## XEN (May 14, 2007)

I really liked the VH-4s. When I demoed it I got to play it through 2 4x12s and 2 2x12s. It blew me away. The tone was rich, crispy, and fat as hell. That being said, the same day I tried a 1x12 Mark IV combo and found a tone that was more "me" than the Diezel could hope to reproduce. Bear in mind that for my sound the Diezel gain had to be dimed where the Mark IV barely if ever has to go above 7.

The price is really not the issue, even though it is exorbitant. The issue is that it was not right for me. My wife told me I could buy any amp I wanted, even a Diezel. I bought a Mark IV.


----------



## 7StringofAblicK (May 14, 2007)

urklvt said:


> I really liked the VH-4s. When I demoed it I got to play it through 2 4x12s and 2 2x12s. It blew me away. The tone was rich, crispy, and fat as hell. That being said, the same day I tried a 1x12 Mark IV combo and found a tone that was more "me" than the Diezel could hope to reproduce. Bear in mind that for my sound the Diezel gain had to be dimed where the Mark IV barely if ever has to go above 7.
> 
> The price is really not the issue, even though it is exorbitant. The issue is that it was not right for me. My wife told me I could buy any amp I wanted, even a Diezel. I bought a Mark IV.



So let's hear more about this wife of yours haha 

You were playing through 12 speakers? God damn dude!!


----------



## noodles (May 14, 2007)

7StringofAblicK said:


> With that said, i'm too happy with Mesa (spending 1200-1500 bucks) to switch elsewhere yet.



That's my "problem" with Mesa. I've played a bunch of stuff that is more expensive, but nothing that I think is better. I've played some stuff that has one really awesome tone, but lacks the versatility to be my one amp.


----------



## 7StringofAblicK (May 14, 2007)

Cause if you really think about it, Mesas are NOT expensive for what you get (in the states). You get awesome build quality, awesome Customer service, and amps that are well rounded - plus a good variety of amps. How many does Diezel have? do they have as many as models as Mesa? 

I'm not going to turn this into a Mesa kick, but really, you get so much for your buck. 

I realized last night that the clean on my recto is freakin' awesome too. No Nomad, but it's nice and glassy - something i've heard bad reviews about.


----------



## sakeido (May 14, 2007)

I saw a band called 2 Cents live just awhile ago. The one guitarist was playing a 5150 I think and the other guy had a Herbert. The Herbert could not be heard for shit and it didn't sound $2000 better then a Rectifier, in my opinion. It was really gainy and fat and it was punchy, but very compressed with almost no dynamics. The tone on the whole was pretty lifeless and the 5150 sounded way better.

I would look into another amp man, especially if you are going by how it sounds on heavily produced songs. What is it you actually like about the tone that makes you want one? Otherwise it would be hard to suggest an alternative.


----------



## budda (May 14, 2007)

i've heard a herbert live, and while i dont recall the exact tone (ie it sounds like x band y song), i did like the guys tone - it was the heaviest of all the bands. im fairly sure that the live tone is heavier then the studio tone - the band is the cancer bats, if anyone's interested. gotta A/B stuff like a madman until you find "your" amp - but isnt that half the fun!?


----------



## Stitch (May 14, 2007)

Yup. 

My opinion of the Herbert, having played it, was OMFG! I want it!

Its up there in the list of things to own, and in my opinion, it totally slays my 6505.


----------



## DreamSound (May 14, 2007)

Thank you all for all the feedback. I can appreciate people that know what they're talking about and really pay attention in detail to different tones. 

I am really looking for a characteristic tone. The response on boutiques amps was exactly what I was looking for. Now, I'm intrigued by the sound and I can't wait to try out some of the amps mentioned on the first page (Pitbull?) I've owned a Mark IV, a Mesa Triple Rectifier, the new VOX Valvetronix series, etc. The Mark IV and Vox are very good amps but again, I'm looking for a more characteristic 'modern' sound, such as Chevelle and Tool. 

It definitely doesn't have to be a Diezel (the reason why I started this thread) and I agree it is not worth the money nor donating my testicles for cancer research, but I'll still get one someday  

DOES ANYONE HAVE LINKS TO GOOD CLIPS OF SOME OF THE AMPS MENTIONED ON THE FIRST PAGE OF HIS THREAD?


----------



## noodles (May 14, 2007)

DreamSound said:


> I'm looking for a more characteristic 'modern' sound, such as Chevelle and Tool.



You keep mentioning Chevelle. Peter is a Mark IV player.


----------



## sakeido (May 14, 2007)

OOH one that comes to mind is the Rivera Knucklehead Tre! There is one for sale on harmony central right now for a good price. The cleans are great, the crunch is good and the gain channel is wicked - almost perfectly in between Mark IV punchiness and Rectifier sag and saturation.


----------



## zimbloth (May 14, 2007)

DreamSound said:


> DOES ANYONE HAVE LINKS TO GOOD CLIPS OF SOME OF THE AMPS MENTIONED ON THE FIRST PAGE OF HIS THREAD?



No, but honestly web clips of amps really are completely worthless. They never sound accurate, and are really of no help. There are countless factors which play into how a given amp sounds and is recorded, it's just a waste of time. Seeing a band play live that uses them is somewhat helpful, but there's still many variables which come into play there as well. With my VHT, I just went on reviews, reputation, the tone I heard from bands who used them live, etc. It was a risk but it worked out. I mean I got to play it in a store, but not at levels which would have really painted me the true picture (plus it had ancient tubes in it).

PS: I don't think we need an "in my opinion" disclaimer since that should be implied when we're talking about subjective topics such as this


----------



## TMM (May 15, 2007)

Rindgecore said:


> Diezel = Not worth the money.



+ 2000

I had the chance to try both a VH-4 and a Herbert out for a couple hours 2 years ago. I brought my Soldano Avenger with me to a shop down in Brockton, MA, thinking I was going to trade the Soldano in toward something 'even nicer.'

Both Diezels were great sounding amps, and the Herbert definitely sounded better to my ears. After A/B'ing with my Avenger for a little while though, I moved away from the Diezels.

Then I plugged into a VHT Pitbull UL-100, and it absolutely laid waste to the Diezels. I wouldn't even call it a close comparison.

The Diezels just sound like a really good version of something that's been done before. The VHT has a real unique, signature tone, and it's _really _good. Same with the Avenger. I'd take either of them over a VH-4 in an instant.

Both the VHT UL's and the Soldano Avenger, along with a couple other amps, like the Bogner Uberschall, would probably suit you well if you like the Diezels. All those amps have a very open, 3-D sound, which admittedly the Diezel does have.

Other amps in the same 'tonal quality' range would be the nicer Engls (Invader, Savage, maybe the Powerball), Hughes & Kettner Triamp, the Framus Dragon, or the Cobra. Maybe even the Madison Divinity. This latter group all have a little tighter sound though, not quite as open as the group above. Just as good, just a little different.

... oh, end result of walking into the store was keeping my Avenger, and _additionally _getting a VHT CL-50H a little while later. And, now I'm on the Triple-X... it's not quite my old Avenger, but it does well.


----------



## Rindgecore (May 15, 2007)

You farking tell me that that a VH4 sounds 4200 dollars good. Hell, it sounds 2500 dollars good, but not over 4 grand good.


----------



## metalfiend666 (May 15, 2007)

Rindgecore said:


> You farking tell me that that a VH4 sounds 4200 dollars good. Hell, it sounds 2500 dollars good, but not over 4 grand good.



One thing you have to bear in mind is it's made in Europe. Here it sells for £2200, exactly the same price as a Mesa Roadster. A Dual Rec is around £1700. Unfortunately the Dollar is fairly weak right now, so you end up paying proportionally more.


----------



## metalfiend666 (May 15, 2007)

If you want an idea of what amps are out there, try my Amp/Cab maker thread


----------



## Stitch (May 15, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> PS: I don't think we need an "in my opinion" disclaimer since that should be implied when we're talking about subjective topics such as this



I wasn't levelling that at you mate 

Its kind of a given you've played it before and probably owned it for at least a week. 



Rindgecore said:


> You farking tell me that that a VH4 sounds 4200 dollars good. Hell, it sounds 2500 dollars good, but not over 4 grand good.





metalfiend666 said:


> One thing you have to bear in mind is it's made in Europe. Here it sells for £2200, exactly the same price as a Mesa Roadster. A Dual Rec is around £1700. Unfortunately the Dollar is fairly weak right now, so you end up paying proportionally more.



Thats exactly what I said. 
We should have some sort of auto-reply whenever the cost of a European product is mentioned.


----------



## Lozek (May 15, 2007)

I'm till not totally sold on Diezels being the absolute peak of tone that everyone seems to think they are. I used to play in a band with the guy who is now the main UK distributor for Diezel & at that point he was running a Herbert & a 5150. The Herbert definitely sounded more full than the 5150, the issue that I always had was the the Herbert sounded so full, it left no frequency room for the bass or kick drums.

From what I've experienced playing about with both amps, the VH-4 definitely sits more in the traditional guitar frequency range and I like it for that reason. Overall though, I'd rather use more of a combination of gear and try to sound a bit more like myself.


----------



## Bird (May 15, 2007)

The Koch Powertone 2 is worth looking at.


----------



## 6077dino (May 15, 2007)

My vote goes also for VHT. I have two Pittbull one hundreds, that´s the predicesor of UL. It is basicly the same the biggest difference being the power section. It is one half of 2150 power amp, just two KT88, pumping out 100W. 

My friend had a pittbull classic and the sounded great too. I found my voice in VHT! They are very good and have a unique sound.


----------



## DreamSound (May 17, 2007)

It's true that are too many variables that play with judging an amp according to someone posting a clip. The most important variables are the preamp used, guitar and pickups, the player, settings on the amp, the way it was miced and mixed and how many layered guitar tracks. 

However, if you listen to several clips you can find the common ground and you can get an idea of what a specific amp sounds like. If the clip its good then you know there's potential.

The bottom line is that I don't have the time to find different stores that carries different heads. After listening to a couple of clips of VHT heads I am certainly interested! My #1 choice right now will be the VHT Pittbull w. the parametric eq thanks to all you guyses feedback. I found one for 3K and I think it will be worth the money!! The store its about an hour away and I'll let y'all know how it goes


----------



## starsnuffer (May 17, 2007)

H&K triamp mkII will get you close. It's more versitile, but has a less processed sound then the Diezel. Most people who like the Diezels like the processed aspect of the sound (especially true of the herbert). The H&K's are more organic, but have that unique german midrange thing going on.

-W


----------



## Bound (May 18, 2007)

I think as far as ultra high gain amps go, I'll prefer the sound of an Engl Savage over the Diezel any day.


----------

