# Why Modern Bands Doesn't Use Any Song Structure?



## Akkush (Aug 2, 2019)

Hi there!

It very annoys me that most of the new band's songs sound soo random, especially in death metal , death core.

I mean they are all very technical, and there are good riffs, but it's like all songs use the ABCDEFG...Z song structure.

There are a bunch of riffs, most of them without purpuse, and the main rule is that they don't repeat anything. So there's nothing memorable in the song. 

I'm a big Morbid Angel fan, and I love that I can basiclly whistle their songs.

Anyone have the same problem?


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## iamaom (Aug 2, 2019)

I, too, lament that more death metal bands don't use sonata allegro form.


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## MrWulf (Aug 2, 2019)

It is interesting because i feel like the word "progressive" or "technical" has been butchered into "lets just wank as much as we can". Theres a lack of just logical progression from a lot of modern metal imo. As much as i dig some technical death metal band out there some of them are just too wankery and being technical for technical's sake.


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## Demiurge (Aug 2, 2019)

Traditional verse-chorus-verse-blah-blah structure isn't expected, but when it seems like the song is composed of unrelated ideas stitched-together under the pretense of being "prog" it's hard to listen to. 

I think it's indicative of the age-old (false) dilemma of chops versus songwriting. Music can have both, but while there's an arms-race to show who is the most clever guitarist in the room, the problem is that only songwriting can survive on its own.


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## budda (Aug 2, 2019)

Sounds like the answer is to listen to more Morbid Angel.

And The Black Dahlia Murder.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 2, 2019)

It only seems unstructured to plebs. 

The discerning listener will be able to understand the progression of the leitmotifs and structural harmonic variations.


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 2, 2019)

To be honest, that's happened since forever in any style that places a lot of emphasis on technical merit. The good news is that it's not a transversal thing, so you can find a lot of bands with a "more song, less chops showcase 24/7" in every genre, so good luck with the hunt.

Also, there's nothing objectively wrong with this kind of stuff - personally, I do enjoy to have a recurring motif coming back and using tension / release to its fullest when listening to a song, but that's just a matter of personal taste. It's also worth it to bear in mind some bands do manage to pull off the full-on "never repeat, yet this sounds pretty coherent" tech massacre, and I feel that often stems from maturity and striking the elusive balance between "look at our righteous chops" and "song".


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

"Songwriting" is such a nonsense thing to apply rules to. I'd much rather here a band write a song that plays like a movie than slowly trudging through micro changes for 9 minutes *cough* TOOL *cough*. I would probably really dislike most of the bands I listen to if they started just writing basic-ass verse-chorus-verse-bridge-chorus songs.


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## MrWulf (Aug 2, 2019)

Thats false equivalent. Nobody is asking for traditional song structure. Rather, coherent song structure and logical progression vs throwing different shit at a wall.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Thats false equivalent. Nobody is asking for traditional song structure. Rather, coherent song structure and logical progression vs throwing different shit at a wall.


That's totally subjective though, unless you're doing a classical analysis and trying to find specific functions of riffs/notes to complete a theoretically "proper" idea. What's a "Logical progression"? Hitting the "right" leading tones from the end of one riff into another? Having a traditional solo section? Theoretically "proper" harmonic structure? If someone's art isn't doing it for you, there's a ton of bands making less chaotic music to enjoy.


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## p0ke (Aug 2, 2019)

What I personally hate is when bands don't have transitions between their riffs. A friend of mine used to listen to a lot of metalcore back in the day, and even though I liked much of the riffage in the songs, I felt like they were just collections of riffs that didn't fit together at all. I mean, tempo changes and stuff like that are fine, but not when they occur between every riff and without transitioning in any way.

Otherwise IMO it's all the same if riffs don't repeat at all etc, a song can feel coherent without it.


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## MrWulf (Aug 2, 2019)

You cant exactly hide behing that wall of "thats subjective" because theres plenty of bands who throw shits at the wall too but they dont seem to hide it behind the pretense of prog or tech. Prog/tech assume a significant level of musicianship. Not just "hey we can play chaotic shits at 280 bpm". There's Inferi who makes perfectly logical tech death with goob ebbs and flows in structure behind absurd level of technicality. JFAC's Sun Eater was also a good example of being prog without being wankery.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

I don't think the OP specifically said "prog or tech", and it IS all subjective. Whether you enjoy it or not is your decision, and there are lots of bands that will fit your criteria. I'd rather listen to Fawn Limbs, or Needle Play, or Car Bomb, than Inferi or Archspire most of the time, even though I enjoy both of those bands. I find predictability in music to be incredibly boring most of the time, and a lot of what is considered "top-tier" tech/death/prog these days has like one or two surprising elements per ALBUM, where as I would rather there be several per song. Subjectively, something like The Callous Doaboys is "better" than Inferi because even though the musicianship isn't even close to the same level, the music is waaaay more interesting (to me) because it DOES change mood/feel/vocal style/etc 5+ times per song with no real reasoning other than that's the way they wanted to do it.


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 2, 2019)

It's all down to the listener, and fortunately there's no shortage of bands that can fit anyone's taste. To be completely fair here, my one gripe with the OP is really overly generalising things, especially because it's a really fine line between "collection of random riffs plastered together" and "willingly chaotic song structure" - in many cases, I do get the feeling the former is more frequent, but hey, if that's what they want to do, I'm sure someone will enjoy it!


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## Strobe (Aug 2, 2019)

Akkush said:


> Hi there!
> 
> It very annoys me that most of the new band's songs sound soo random, especially in death metal , death core.
> 
> ...



I play a lot of live shows and I go to a lot of live shows. Now I love me some good death metal, but so much of it is not good songwriting. What's more, I think a lot of folks who are disagreeing either must have amazing local scenes or are not experiencing this stuff in the wild. We could argue back and forth about whether the technical has replaced the songwriting aspect, but the truth is a lot of the death metal out there isn't very technical either. It's just a bunch of forgettable riffs jumbled together in a way that's just monotonous. Plenty of unearned breakdowns, lack of solos, and chromatic riffs that sound the same as the other 4 chromatic riffs in the song.

So thank you OP. Not saying the emperor wears no clothes (Emperor rules), but as someone who loves heavy music, I feel I can say that most of what I hear of this style is pretty forgettable, and I wish it were better. <3 to all you out there keeping it kvlt and trve and writing interesting and great stuff. Play some shows in the Twin Cities, please.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 2, 2019)

Because it’s chromatic nonsense with hyper speed 3NPS scale runs and you expect them to adhere to classical rules of song structure?

Let me know when Periphery starts doing ii-V-I-VI major turnarounds...


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## GuitarBizarre (Aug 2, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't think the OP specifically said "prog or tech", and it IS all subjective. Whether you enjoy it or not is your decision, and there are lots of bands that will fit your criteria. I'd rather listen to Fawn Limbs, or Needle Play, or Car Bomb, than Inferi or Archspire most of the time, even though I enjoy both of those bands. I find predictability in music to be incredibly boring most of the time, and a lot of what is considered "top-tier" tech/death/prog these days has like one or two surprising elements per ALBUM, where as I would rather there be several per song. Subjectively, something like The Callous Doaboys is "better" than Inferi because even though the musicianship isn't even close to the same level, the music is waaaay more interesting (to me) because it DOES change mood/feel/vocal style/etc 5+ times per song with no real reasoning other than that's the way they wanted to do it.


When he says you're "hiding behind" saying something is subjective, what he means is that just because something is subjective, does not mean all opinions on that thing are necessarily equal.

There are lots of ways for someone to have a stronger point, or a more logical argument, or a generally more complete understanding of the topic, that don't require being able to measure things in SI units. For example, if some idiot on this forum were to start trashing on hip-hop as "just a bunch of idiot thugs ranting about shooting people" is their position somehow beyond critique just because it's "subjective"? No. I could absolutely tear them apart because their position, although it's subjective, is based on a premise that is objectively false - there's lots of hip-hop that isn't anything to do with gang violence, and there's also lots of elements of hip-hop that are intelligent, astute and clever even within the material that does reference gang violence.There are clear anti-violence messages in the works of a huge number of "gangsta rappers" also.

My knowledge of those things, compared to the ignorance of the other person, makes it perfectly possible for me to construct a MUCH stronger argument in favour of my position than the other guy. The opinions, though subjective, would not be of equal merit.

If you want to have a productive discussion about why one musical style appeals to you more than another, then you need to bring some actual points and a general understanding, to the party. Standing there saying "Well I can't be wrong because this is subjective", is idiotic and wastes the time of anyone who actually wanted to understand the topic in any way.

OP brought an analysis of a musical trend, a comparison of that trend to other forms of music, a personal justification for his feelings on it, and a willingness to hear other ideas. What did you bring, GunpointMetal?


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

GuitarBizarre said:


> When he says you're "hiding behind" saying something is subjective, what he means is that just because something is subjective, does not mean all opinions on that thing are necessarily equal.
> 
> There are lots of ways for someone to have a stronger point, or a more logical argument, or a generally more complete understanding of the topic, that don't require being able to measure things in SI units. For example, if some idiot on this forum were to start trashing on hip-hop as "just a bunch of idiot thugs ranting about shooting people" is their position somehow beyond critique just because it's "subjective"? No. I could absolutely tear them apart because their position, although it's subjective, is based on a premise that is objectively false - there's lots of hip-hop that isn't anything to do with gang violence, and there's also lots of elements of hip-hop that are intelligent, astute and clever even within the material that does reference gang violence.There are clear anti-violence messages in the works of a huge number of "gangsta rappers" also.
> 
> ...


What do want, a theoretical analysis of each band/album I mentioned? Talk about a false-equivalency argument. Saying "all rap is made by thugs so I don't like it" is about 2,000 miles from saying "Your idea of good songwriting is not everyone's idea of good songwriting, so don't blame the bands for making music you don't enjoy". Music is not a "this is how you do it and if you don't do it this way you're wrong" situation. If you enjoy something, good, if you don't enjoy something, you can say so, and move on. This type of conversation is similar to when people bitch about an artist not making the same kind of music they used to (of which I've done myself). It's fine to say you don't like a thing, but ultimately nobody has to pander to anyone else's tastes to "do it right".


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## GuitarBizarre (Aug 2, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> What do want, a theoretical analysis of each band/album I mentioned?


OP didn't personally attack you by pointing out he finds value in a band being able to combine technicality alongside a purposed, defined structure, but all you've done in terms of responding is act as if he shot your dog. It's pretty hypocritical of you to *demand* that he respect a trend he doesn't enjoy, only for you to then turn around and denigrate the music that he enjoys as if it's inferior because it uses different tools to achieve different effects. 

So far, OP has provided way better reasoning and done it with a way less shitty attitude than you've managed. You've been trying to dress up an attack on OP's preferred content as if you're defending yourself from an attack on yours, and I'm not buying it.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

GuitarBizarre said:


> OP didn't personally attack you by pointing out he finds value in a band being able to combine technicality alongside a purposed, defined structure, but all you've done in terms of responding is act as if he shot your dog. It's pretty hypocritical of you to *demand* that he respect a trend he doesn't enjoy, only for you to then turn around and denigrate the music that he enjoys as if it's inferior because it uses different tools to achieve different effects.
> 
> So far, OP has provided way better reasoning and done it with a way less shitty attitude than you've managed. You've been trying to dress up an attack on OP's preferred content as if you're defending yourself from an attack on yours, and I'm not buying it.



So saying that the level enjoyment someone gets from music is dependent on the listener and expecting artists to write in a specific way to cater to some sort preconceived notion of good songwriting is an insult? I never said anyone was of lesser intelligence, or shouldn't think the way they do about something. I said that music doesn't have rules, and there are lots of bands that make music that fits on all sides of "songwriting" so maybe focus on the stuff that's enjoyable instead of wishing bands that aren't enjoyable would make music that suits your tastes. If you don't like abstract paintings, you don't look at them and then say "Why isn't this a landscape? Painting is about specific subjects in realistic detail."

It would seem you're the one looking for a fight here.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 2, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> What do want, a theoretical analysis of each band/album I mentioned? Talk about a false-equivalency argument. Saying "all rap is made by thugs so I don't like it" is about 2,000 miles from saying "Your idea of good songwriting is not everyone's idea of good songwriting, so don't blame the bands for making music you don't enjoy". Music is not a "this is how you do it and if you don't do it this way you're wrong" situation. If you enjoy something, good, if you don't enjoy something, you can say so, and move on. This type of conversation is similar to when people bitch about an artist not making the same kind of music they used to (of which I've done myself). It's fine to say you don't like a thing, but ultimately nobody has to pander to anyone else's tastes to "do it right".



False. The only good music is the music I like. 

#factnotopinion


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> False. The only good music is the music I like.
> 
> #factnotopinion


Exactly. The only good music is the music I like.


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## GuitarBizarre (Aug 2, 2019)

OP wrote: "There are a bunch of riffs, most of them without purpuse, and the main rule is that they don't repeat anything. So there's nothing memorable in the song."

This is a basic and valid criticism - if absolutely everything is random chaos, nothing stands out, and it becomes less likely that a listener will remember any given portion of the whole. You can avoid this by providing *almost any kind* of song structure in order to make your ideas cohesive and mesh together as a single piece of artwork instead of a collection of unrelated pieces.

You responded to that with this:



> "Songwriting" is such a nonsense thing to apply rules to. I'd much rather here a band write a song that plays like a movie than slowly trudging through micro changes for 9 minutes *cough* TOOL *cough*. I would probably really dislike most of the bands I listen to if they started just writing basic-ass verse-chorus-verse-bridge-chorus songs.



The first point of course here is that you somehow read something about rules, when OP didn't use that word once, nor did he imply anything about rules. He suggested that structure is a positive songwriting tool, which it is, and he articulated a creative weakness with "unstructured" songwriting. No specific structure was specified nor did OP suggest that existing structures should be used rather than novel and unique ones.

The second point you made was just a stab at Tool, who have absolutely nothing to do with anything anyone was saying at all, and an attack on "9 minutes of micro changes", which again, nobody said anything about until you brought it up out of nowhere.

The third point you made was based entirely around the same faulty assumption you made in the first point, where you for some reasons decided to read a bunch of stuff into OP's statement, that he didn't say or imply, and the entire tone you took was to imply yourself, that structure would make things you enjoy worse somehow.


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## HANIAK (Aug 2, 2019)

Why are people always criticising? We need less people.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

Oh yeah, I forgot discussion forums were solely for finding topics with which you agree and reaffirming each other's points.

Edit: you can't define "structure" without defining the "rules" that dictate it.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 2, 2019)

Why can’t schoenberg just resolve to the fucking tonic


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## KailM (Aug 2, 2019)

HANIAK said:


> Why are people always criticising? We need less people.



_Fewer_ people.


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## coreysMonster (Aug 3, 2019)

KailM said:


> _Fewer_ people.


Stannis is that you


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## Chris Bowsman (Aug 3, 2019)

I’d like to know specific examples of bands or even songs where nothing ever repeats.


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## Seybsnilksz (Aug 3, 2019)

My favourite songs are mostly songs that move forward instead of repeating verse-chorus, but yes, it has to be done right.

As said before, it's not just a modern thing. For example "Carry on Wayward Son" by Kansas is riff salad with no logical transitions. I wouldn't call it bad since it definitely sounds like they were having fun writing and playing it, but it's not my type of song.

In my opinion, verse-chorus can be a very effective way of quickly catching the listeners ear, but I always get tired of them way quicker than with songs that have a progression to them. Kinda like sugar. Really tasty at first bite, but quickly becomes too much.


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## Acaciastrain360 (Aug 3, 2019)

I fucking love deathcore
I remember songs by their breakdowns and intro... in between those parts, I’m too busy throwing shapes and shit, ya get me?


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## Ebony (Aug 3, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> You cant exactly hide behing that wall of "thats subjective" because theres plenty of bands who throw shits at the wall too but they dont seem to hide it behind the pretense of prog or tech. Prog/tech assume a significant level of musicianship. Not just "hey we can play chaotic shits at 280 bpm".



I'm not sure what you're trying to say here?

Surely you don't mean to suggest that a chaotic song-structure (i.e intentional fractalization, disharmonic modulations and/or deconstruction etc) is _objectively_ poor from a musicianship-standpoint? If so then that has got to be one of the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum.

Do you mean that composers who _literally_ put riffs together at random cannot be considered prog/tech in terms of musicianship as it relates to _putting the riffs together_? That sentiment I could agree on, you don't display faculties of discerning if you don't discern anything.



MrWulf said:


> Thats false equivalent. Nobody is asking for traditional song structure. Rather, coherent song structure and logical progression vs throwing different shit at a wall.



There is an entire ocean of equally valid possibilities between "coherent song structure and logical progression" and "throwing different shit at the wall". Whether a song structure is or isn't coherent and whether a progression is or isn't logical is 110% subjective. If these perceived qualities are positive or negative is _also_ 110% subjective. I'm sure you yourself has enjoyed many a song because the progression felt surprising and strange (i.e "illogical") and I'm sure you've also enjoyed songs because of their incoherency leading to discover that there is coherency to find if one listens hard enough (that can be a thrilling experience in itself, as most metal guys would agree).


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## Randy (Aug 3, 2019)

Chris Bowsman said:


> I’d like to know specific examples of bands or even songs where nothing ever repeats.



August Burns Red, imo.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 3, 2019)

It’s got to be difficult programming drums and quantizing all of your individual guitar notes with all this intentional fractalization and disharmonic modulation and such? Lol



Chris Bowsman said:


> I’d like to know specific examples of bands or even songs where nothing ever repeats.





Randy said:


> August Burns Red, imo.



Henry Kaiser. /allthreads

Devin Townsend? (Obviously there’ll be some repetition)


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## Mprinsje (Aug 3, 2019)

Chris Bowsman said:


> I’d like to know specific examples of bands or even songs where nothing ever repeats.



Winds of plague. Love that band for how obnoxious they are but they have 11 riffs in one song of which none repeats.


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## Dayn (Aug 3, 2019)

Depends on the music for me. There is more to liking music than repetition, but it certainly helps. If the music is cohesive in other ways and maintains my interest, then it doesn't matter if there isn't really any repetition - overall theme and style might keep me hooked. I probably just need to give it some more spins, but Stephen Taranto's album is like that for me - it's pretty relentless and always moving, but I still really like it because I always find something new. It keeps my interest time and time again, but it still sounds connected - cohesive.

I think that's more important than structure in modern metal (though structure obviously can help). For example, I love Dream Theater's "Octavarium": it does have call backs, but it's more like a suite of movements in a single song. Symphony X's "The Odyssey" bores me, despite them both being 24 minutes long. Conversely, Meshuggah's "I" has the same style throughout its 21 minutes, but the way it evolves is what keeps my interest despite little repetition in structure or theme.


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## bulb (Aug 3, 2019)

in my opinion


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## c7spheres (Aug 3, 2019)

I always just listened to a song and either liked it or not. I never cared if it had repeating parts or not. Even in most songs I don't like I can usually pick out stuff that I do like, even sounds or rhythms etc. I'm not a fan of much country music, especially that hip hop country c'rap, but a lot of that slide guitar stuff sounds awesome, for example. Usually the thing that ruins a song or band for me is the vocals. There's a lot of bands that are really good but the vocals just ruin it completely.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Aug 3, 2019)

I can really get into the chaotic "no riff is repeated" tech bands if it's done right. 

But at the same time even if it is, I find myself wanting to hear certain riffs/sections played more than once during the song or at least played for more than a measure or two if they're not going to repeat it.

That being said, I like traditional verse chorus verse songs just as much as the chaotic. Depends on what I'm in the mood for.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 4, 2019)




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## Avedas (Aug 4, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I always just listened to a song and either liked it or not. I never cared if it had repeating parts or not. Even in most songs I don't like I can usually pick out stuff that I do like, even sounds or rhythms etc. I'm not a fan of much country music, especially that hip hop country c'rap, but a lot of that slide guitar stuff sounds awesome, for example. Usually the thing that ruins a song or band for me is the vocals. There's a lot of bands that are really good but the vocals just ruin it completely.


What is hip hop country? I need to hear this.


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## c7spheres (Aug 4, 2019)

Avedas said:


> What is hip hop country? I need to hear this.


 You'll know it when you hear it. It's exactly what it sounds like, hip hop drums, but with country vocals kinda rapping and a mix of county instruments and hip hop drums. I don't know the names of anything but people always play it at the bar down here. I'd rather hear either by themselves more. This stuff drives me nuts, in a bad way.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 4, 2019)

Avedas said:


> What is hip hop country? I need to hear this.





c7spheres said:


> You'll know it when you hear it. It's exactly what it sounds like, hip hop drums, but with country vocals kinda rapping and a mix of county instruments and hip hop drums. I don't know the names of anything but people always play it at the bar down here. I'd rather hear either by themselves more. This stuff drives me nuts, in a bad way.



It's literally the worst thing to ever happen to music...



^ this ruins my College Football Saturday every single damn time. Thank baby jesus for the FFWD button.

[and FWIW I like rap/hip-hop... but this is garbage IMO]


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## dr_game0ver (Aug 4, 2019)

Except Old Town Road is a rap song with a country theme as oppose to the garbage that is Cruise(remix) which is a country song with rapping lyrics.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 4, 2019)

dr_game0ver said:


> Except Old Town Road is a rap song with a country theme as oppose to the garbage that is Cruise(remix) which is a country song with rapping lyrics.


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## Avedas (Aug 4, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> It's literally the worst thing to ever happen to music...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like how they're playing guitar in the video but there's no guitar in the audio


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## DudeManBrother (Aug 4, 2019)

When it comes to metal: I’ll take songs with no repetition over songs that are (practically) nothing but chorus all day long.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Aug 4, 2019)

The only rap/country song thats acceptable is Over and Over by Tim McGraw and Nelly.


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## fps (Aug 4, 2019)

They have a structure, the issue is whether you like that structure or not.


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## BigViolin (Aug 4, 2019)

But...do they have grammar?


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## TheDandy (Aug 4, 2019)

As a specific example, Integration by The Contortionist comes to mind.


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## couverdure (Aug 4, 2019)

Avedas said:


> I like how they're playing guitar in the video but there's no guitar in the audio


But there is guitar in the song, or at least the sample from the NIN song that it's based around on.


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## CTID (Aug 5, 2019)

just commenting to say Old Town Road absolutely slaps and that the white boy rapping about trucks and beer over a hip-hop-influenced country beat trend is dogshit


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## Randy (Aug 5, 2019)

DudeManBrother said:


> When it comes to metal: I’ll take songs with no repetition over songs that are (practically) nothing but chorus all day long.



Maybe I'm ADD these days but I can't stand repetitive songs, especially outros. Acceptable outro is the chorus twice, maybe four if it's short or not annoying. Paradise City makes me want eat a live hand grenade.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 5, 2019)

Randy said:


> Maybe I'm ADD these days but I can't stand repetitive songs, especially outros. Acceptable outro is the chorus twice, maybe four if it's short or not annoying. Paradise City makes me want eat a live hand grenade.


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## Sogradde (Aug 5, 2019)

Avedas said:


> What is hip hop country? I need to hear this.


My first association would be this:


On Topic: There seems to be the general misconception that in order to be "structured" a song has to be linear. That's not the case. A song can be very obviously structured but still follow a non-traditional scheme. I think whatever helps the song is fine but I agree that a lot of technical bands overdo it trying to be super progressive.


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## c7spheres (Aug 5, 2019)

Sogradde said:


> My first association would be this:
> 
> 
> On Topic: There seems to be the general misconception that in order to be "structured" a song has to be linear. That's not the case. A song can be very obviously structured but still follow a non-traditional scheme. I think whatever helps the song is fine but I agree that a lot of technical bands overdo it trying to be super progressive.



That's one of those songs! Kryptonite to my soul. I hate that stuff but I do like the bendy slidey guitar sounding thing. It's a cool tone.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 5, 2019)

Randy said:


> Maybe I'm ADD these days but I can't stand repetitive songs, especially outros. Acceptable outro is the chorus twice, maybe four if it's short or not annoying. Paradise City makes me want eat a live hand grenade.


Yeah, nothing says "We didn't know what to do at the end of this song." like a repetitive outro that just fades for 30 seconds. Just finish the damn song.


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## Cynicanal (Aug 5, 2019)

To answer the question posed in the thread title -- because the way you make money in music these days isn't by making good music, but by shilling gear. This means your target audience is only other musicians, and it's not as important that they like your piece as it is that they know that they're less technically skilled than you. Therefore, writing good songs is exactly what professional musicians _shouldn't_ do; rather, they should wank as hard as they can for five minutes so that they can sell more impulse responses, underwound "boutique" pickups, and TS-9 clones.


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## fps (Aug 5, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> Yeah, nothing says "We didn't know what to do at the end of this song." like a repetitive outro that just fades for 30 seconds. Just finish the damn song.



That's not necessarily true at all. Perhaps the momentum of the song is meant to finally build to a unified point at the end.


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## Masoo2 (Aug 5, 2019)

I've only ran into a single problem appreciate a band for their structure/lack of, and that's Oceans Ate Alaska

idk, they just don't feel coherent in any way, shape, or form to me

I listen to a lot of music that arguably has no real structure (noise, ambient, certain grindcore/etc) but it's when you _try and fail_ to have structure that I feel it becomes a problem

though it's all 100% subjective


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## USMarine75 (Aug 6, 2019)

fps said:


> That's not necessarily true at all. Perhaps the momentum of the song is meant to finally build to a unified point at the end.



Yeah I quite like it, if it's done right.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 6, 2019)

Masoo2 said:


> though it's all 100% subjective


The real question here is "Why aren't modern bands structuring their songs in a traditional way, or in a way that is pleasing to my listening expectations?"


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 6, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> The real question here is "Why aren't modern bands structuring their songs in a traditional way, or in a way that is pleasing to my listening expectations?"



That seems to be basically it. I mean, there's really no shortage of great bands with more traditional structures to their songs, so I dare say it goes as far as being "Why aren't ALL modern bands structuring their songs in a traditional way, or in a way that is pleasing to my listening expectations?".

If I'm to exapnd on that, I take it he means better known bands in genres like djent / prog / anything "tech" driven, to which the answer is "current trends".


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## AdamMaz (Aug 6, 2019)

I imagine there is a connection to my generation's short attention span and ability to focus.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 6, 2019)

AdamMaz said:


> I imagine there is a connection to my generation's short attention span and ability to focus.


Definitely some of that, as well the genres we're discussing are very difficult to stand out in, so your options are be faster, or be crazier.


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## sakeido (Aug 6, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> To answer the question posed in the thread title -- because the way you make money in music these days isn't by making good music, but by shilling gear. This means your target audience is only other musicians, and it's not as important that they like your piece as it is that they know that they're less technically skilled than you. Therefore, writing good songs is exactly what professional musicians _shouldn't_ do; rather, they should wank as hard as they can for five minutes so that they can sell more impulse responses, underwound "boutique" pickups, and TS-9 clones.



yo fuck don't go posting misha's secret sauce out in the open like that, he worked very hard to steal that business plan from Pete Thorn


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## Acaciastrain360 (Aug 7, 2019)

Does this count as ‘no repetition structure’?


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## couverdure (Aug 7, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> To answer the question posed in the thread title -- because the way you make money in music these days isn't by making good music, but by shilling gear. This means your target audience is only other musicians, and it's not as important that they like your piece as it is that they know that they're less technically skilled than you. Therefore, writing good songs is exactly what professional musicians _shouldn't_ do; rather, they should wank as hard as they can for five minutes so that they can sell more impulse responses, underwound "boutique" pickups, and TS-9 clones.


I honestly can't tell if this is just well-written sarcasm or just plain serious. As far as I'm concerned, a lot of modern bands I know use off-the-shelf gear rather than whatever obscure brands Misha used before his current lasting endorsements, and I doubt the popular ones have fans who even know how to play a chord.



Fred the Shred said:


> That seems to be basically it. I mean, there's really no shortage of great bands with more traditional structures to their songs, so I dare say it goes as far as being "Why aren't ALL modern bands structuring their songs in a traditional way, or in a way that is pleasing to my listening expectations?".
> 
> If I'm to exapnd on that, I take it he means better known bands in genres like djent / prog / anything "tech" driven, to which the answer is "current trends".


Exactly this. "Modern" is just too broad of a term that it pretty much boils down to "anything before the mid-90s" at this point. With the internet being a dominant force in everything, there's a vast range of newer bands to discover who have different styles and such, the sky's the limit.


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## isotropy (Aug 8, 2019)

I never knew there was a right and wrong way to structure a song! :O


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## 5150serg (Aug 8, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> It is interesting because i feel like the word "progressive" or "technical" has been butchered into "lets just wank as much as we can". Theres a lack of just logical progression from a lot of modern metal imo. As much as i dig some technical death metal band out there some of them are just too wankery and being technical for technical's sake.



+1 MrWulf

I've been thinking it for sometime. When these new prog, technical and/or djent (whatever you want to call them) bands started popping up I thought that these bands were just mashing things together just for the sake of it and not because they genuinely enjoyed what they were doing. It seems like the mindset is sometimes..."We're gonna growl and blast beat here then all of sudden go into a smooth jazz breakdown and it'll be good because it's random and it's prog and it's cool and that's what we're supposed to do." I THINK...there is a certain flow to things with it's genuine. I can't imagine myself saying, "Hey guys, lets make a progressive technical atmospheric death metal band." To me you write what comes natural and that is the beauty of music. When a relationship is forced you can tell. When music is forced you can tell. But that's just me...


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## stockwell (Aug 8, 2019)

This is the nature of the growth of metal. A lot of metal genres wandered too far from traditional song structures to ever come back. Metal was always riff-based, but at some point we deviated so far from verse-chorus thinking that there was no definitive structure.

Obviously this applies to some subgenres more than others. Power metal, trad metal, more radio-friendly stuff, they can all stick close to rock and pop structures. But what is the standard structure of a death metal song? Black metal? Sludge? Prog? 

There isn't a single structure. At any point in a song, you're free to do anything. Harmonically, rhythmically, emotionally, melodically, sonically. There's not really a set road map for what you do. In my opinion, this is what makes metal songwriting so difficult, idiosyncratic, and personal to connect to.

I can listen to two bands with very similar sounds, very similar niches, and very similar riff styles. But for one band, I just get it. I can't even articulate what the difference is. There's a flow. Every choice is what I wanted, or what I didn't know I wanted. It makes sense. And this feeling isn't always immediate. Sometimes it takes a few listens, or dozens and dozens of listens, but when it clicks, it clicks for me. I'm not even talking about super dense prog or anything. Even for the most straightforward hardcore, I either get the band's approach to writing or I don't.

I believe very strongly that music doesn't have to be one thing. I heard an interview with Dean Lamb of Archspire (on the URM podcast) where he talked about the band's approach to music. I used to dismiss them as just hyper-techy wankery like some of the people in this thread might. But Dean was so honest and unpretentious about his approach to music that it clicked for me. He just wanted to go really fast. He just liked pouring out an endless, Bach-style stream of notes. And yeah, he wanted to make memorable and interesting music like everyone does. But he also wanted to go really fast.

It's funny SpiritLed85 pokes fun at "progressive technical atmospheric death metal". Two of my favorite bands of all time, Fallujah and Rivers of Nihil, fall directly into that category. For me, those bands have some of the best songwriting I've ever heard (especially on The Flesh Prevails/Dreamless and Monarchy/Owls). But I've heard people who would dismiss them just as quickly as I'd dismiss other bands. If you don't connect to it, you don't connect to it. 

Music doesn't have to be a certain thing. Some people do want disjointed, shifting, endless streams of random riffs. You don't have to listen to those bands that fill that need, but don't assume there isn't a craft and skill to that as well.


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## ctgblue (Aug 9, 2019)

Try playing American Pie without someone turning the pages for you..... that's all I have...


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## Spicypickles (Aug 9, 2019)

Modern metal does seem to jump around, riff to riff, but modern _music?
_
All of the music I’ve heard in bars, malls, the radio, etc....it all seems to have one, maybe two different sections per song, if they don’t just sing the song title over the same beat to act as their chorus. It seems to be the exact same beat for all songs also. I know this comes across as “all pop music is the same”, but I’ve genuinely tried to listen to it since my girl also does, but it’s almost all identical.


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## gLOW-x (Aug 9, 2019)

All this sh*t started with Meshuggah "Nothing" album.
As "influential" band, a lot of ppl started to "chuga" like them.
Throw a bunch of riffs ... and tada !
A song ...
(PS : i loved this band on their first albums, with REAL structures)

I was TOTALLY bored for at least 10 years. My beloved bands almost ALL followed this %µ*$$^ trend.
Only rhythm riffs/chuga , NO melodic structure. And not only "brutal" bands, but even melodic ones like Symphony X.
No more melodic structure means no more story : just static noise.

By chance, like any trend, it is starting to fall by itself.

When i listen to Beyond Creation or Psycroptic i hear structures. And it STILL very brutal. I don't care about tempo/melody change, if there is a STORY.


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## stockwell (Aug 12, 2019)

Some bands prefer to focus on rhythmic stuff and grooves over melodic stuff. That's completely separate from "structure", although I'm starting to think structure means something different to you. I don't think most people would say that Meshuggah lack songwriting or structure on any of their albums. Being idiosyncratic doesn't mean it's not well-structured. 

Some people would listen to Beyond Creation and Psycroptic and say it completely lacks structure. Which is my point. There's no right or wrong way to structure a song. Just because you personally don't like the way a band structures their songs doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a structure, or that they have bad songwriting. 

I'm not saying that everyone is equally good at songwriting. I just think it's arrogant to assume that any songwriting approach you don't like is automatically flawed. You just might not connect to the goals and values of the music.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

Here's a thought for ya: To actually compose music you need to KNOW music. Most of these guys just don't. All emphasis is on technique and besides the pedal tone they don't know the theory of their own riff, hence how to transition to anything fitting or create specific emotions. Been there myself; 27 complex riffs in a song - very "impressive" - not very musical.


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## Cynicanal (Sep 3, 2019)

Wat?

I hate to have to defend djent here, but if anything, those kids know more about music theory than the endless dadrockers playing the same pentatonic progressions over and over and over...


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Because it’s chromatic nonsense with hyper speed 3NPS scale runs and you expect them to adhere to classical rules of song structure?
> 
> Let me know when Periphery starts doing ii-V-I-VI major turnarounds...



Who talked about Periphery? Misha actually knows how to write music. He has real compositions in between the chromatic brutality and as such Periphery is one of the worst fits for the OP complaint.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> Wat?
> 
> I hate to have to defend djent here, but if anything, those kids know more about music theory than the endless dadrockers playing the same pentatonic progressions over and over and over...



Definitely some djent kids do, definitely a lot of the death, "prog" bands that the OP complains about do not, at all, zit, nada, blank. Why you're comparing to dad rock I have no idea. You can fit the grand canyon between that and the quite relevant OP complaint.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 3, 2019)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Who talked about Periphery? Misha actually knows how to write music. He has real compositions in between the chromatic brutality and as such Periphery is one of the worst fits for the OP complaint.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

HANIAK said:


> Why are people always criticising? We need less people.



I'll just start my own forum, and invite nobody!


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


>



Perhaps you think that was really cool but you missed the target. I didn't bring up Periphery, only defended that Misha can compose, as can Elton John. Nothing to do with my prefs.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 3, 2019)

Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Perhaps you think that was really cool but you missed the target. I didn't bring up Periphery, only defended that Misha can compose, as can Elton John. Nothing to do with my prefs.



Misha is the John Lennon of our time.


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## Cynicanal (Sep 3, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Misha is the John Lennon of our time.


Man, I don't even like Periphery, but I don't know that Misha has done anything to deserve being shat upon THAT hard.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 3, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> Man, I don't even like Periphery, but I don't know that Misha has done anything to deserve being shat upon THAT hard.



Misha is the Davy Jones of our time. 

Better?


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## Cynicanal (Sep 3, 2019)

I had to Google that to find out who Davy Jones even was, but sure, close enough.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

isotropy said:


> I never knew there was a right and wrong way to structure a song! :O



Who said there was? We're talking about good ways vs. bad ways, sorry you missed the point.


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## Poul Winther Knudsen (Sep 3, 2019)

gLOW-x said:


> All this sh*t started with Meshuggah "Nothing" album.
> As "influential" band, a lot of ppl started to "chuga" like them.
> Throw a bunch of riffs ... and tada !
> A song ...
> ...



I totally agree, no idea why you didn't receive 10.000 likes already!


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## dhgrind (Sep 3, 2019)

Because people don’t bother to learn music theory or sing structure.


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## Karmaic (Sep 3, 2019)

I think a lot of guitarists lack creativity. No matter how techically skilled they are. So just throw together a bunch of random shit and call it good. Or "progressive"

Isnt music supposed to be enjoyable, and pleasant to listen to? If its not, its more noise than "music". I like metal as much as the next guy, but if it sounds like shit, it sounds like shit. No matter what word you tie to it to try and polish that turd. Its A LOT harder to write melodic chorus lines with hooky riffs, than it is to burn through some random chromatics.


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## Karmaic (Sep 3, 2019)

Ive heard 00 000 00 000 00 with some palm mutes over a nice rhythm sound better than..

1363 1153 012 as fast as you can possibly play it.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 4, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> I think a lot of guitarists lack creativity. No matter how techically skilled they are. So just throw together a bunch of random shit and call it good. Or "progressive"
> 
> Isnt music supposed to be enjoyable, and pleasant to listen to? If its not, its more noise than "music". I like metal as much as the next guy, but if it sounds like shit, it sounds like shit. No matter what word you tie to it to try and polish that turd. Its A LOT harder to write melodic chorus lines with hooky riffs, than it is to burn through some random chromatics.


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## Acaciastrain360 (Sep 4, 2019)

Nothing beats a good ole chug along


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## GunpointMetal (Sep 4, 2019)

dhgrind said:


> Because people don’t bother to learn music theory or sing structure.


I'd say from personal experience there is a lot more musically "literate" folks in bands now than there was when I was starting out gigging. "Song structure" is such a BS term for anything other than pop music, IMO. The only "wrong" way to write a song is to second guess yourself into not writing a song.


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## dhgrind (Sep 4, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> I think a lot of guitarists lack creativity. No matter how techically skilled they are. So just throw together a bunch of random shit and call it good. Or "progressive"
> 
> Isnt music supposed to be enjoyable, and pleasant to listen to? If its not, its more noise than "music". I like metal as much as the next guy, but if it sounds like shit, it sounds like shit. No matter what word you tie to it to try and polish that turd. Its A LOT harder to write melodic chorus lines with hooky riffs, than it is to burn through some random chromatics.



I call it grindcore but that’s just how it is baby.

I write all my songs along the structure of back in the ussr by the beetles.

My music literacy stops at “this is a guitar”


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## Karmaic (Sep 4, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> I'd say from personal experience there is a lot more musically "literate" folks in bands now than there was when I was starting out gigging. "Song structure" is such a BS term for anything other than pop music, IMO. The only "wrong" way to write a song is to second guess yourself into not writing a song.



I think a song has to have some sort of structure. That "hook". Example...."Damn that chorus was so smooth.." or..."Damn that bridge was badass."....No song with 8-9 different tempo riffs has never captured an audience into the millions. It has NO identitiy. One hooky riff for 10 seconds, out of 9 in a 7 minute song, isn't going to gain you fans. If a band wants to be a garage band or play for 15 "hardcore" fans, then so be it. Thats their choice. Theres a reason why "standard" song structure connects with listeners. It sounds good. Gives the song an indentity. 

Oh, but its "selling out". Thats fine. Id "sell out" every fucking day for millions of dollars writing music. While the "hardcore" musicians play for an audience of nobody.


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## budda (Sep 4, 2019)

It's like everyone replying doesnt know that "noise" is a genre


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## GunpointMetal (Sep 4, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> I think a song has to have some sort of structure. That "hook". Example...."Damn that chorus was so smooth.." or..."Damn that bridge was badass."....No song with 8-9 different tempo riffs has never captured an audience into the millions. It has NO identitiy. One hooky riff for 10 seconds, out of 9 in a 7 minute song, isn't going to gain you fans. If a band wants to be a garage band or play for 15 "hardcore" fans, then so be it. Thats their choice. Theres a reason why "standard" song structure connects with listeners. It sounds good. Gives the song an indentity.
> 
> Oh, but its "selling out". Thats fine. Id "sell out" every fucking day for millions of dollars writing music. While the "hardcore" musicians play for an audience of nobody.


 Once you start writing music for the sole purpose of pleasing a specific audience, or the widest audience possible there's almost no art left to it. I don't care about selling out, its more like buying in. But if we're looking at a technical death metal band and complaining that it doesn't have a "structure" or a "hook" like its a pop song you're comparing apples to sports cars and its not a useful conversation. I'd rather do whatever the fuck I want with my guitar and have my 15 hardcore fans show up than start worrying about what everyone else is wanting to hear.


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## Albake21 (Sep 4, 2019)

Jokes aside, who gives a shit? Music does not have rules. If you truly think music has rules, you aren't a musician in my eyes. You can make music with structure, that's fine, but to be upset with bands that don't is just ridiculous. This thread is a fucking joke.


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## Karmaic (Sep 4, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> Once you start writing music for the sole purpose of pleasing a specific audience, or the widest audience possible there's almost no art left to it. I don't care about selling out, its more like buying in. But if we're looking at a technical death metal band and complaining that it doesn't have a "structure" or a "hook" like its a pop song you're comparing apples to sports cars and its not a useful conversation. I'd rather do whatever the fuck I want with my guitar and have my 15 hardcore fans show up than start worrying about what everyone else is wanting to hear.



My point is, any band that is succesful on a large scale, has a basic structure to their songs. There are a few bands that made it without "structure". Its not all just random noise. And isnt success what we're all after since the moment we picked up a guitar? We've all dreamed about playing soldout arenas. "I only want to play in my garage for 15 hardcore fans.." said no guitarist ever. Every guitarist can pump out some chromatic gibberish. But when writing actual music, they go to the basic structure. It has a history of success. Less is more. "If its not broke, dont fix it" applies to writing good music.

And if a tech death metal band threw in a couple repetitive hooky riffs I wouldnt tar and feather them.


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## Pietjepieter (Sep 4, 2019)

Damn good read... but who cares?

If you don't like unstructural chaos, don't listen to it... if you like it, also cool.

There is no good or bad. Is some thing no music if it doesn't follow some rules? 
I think thats bullshit, but than again ok it's no music, yeah so what if it sounds nice


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## GunpointMetal (Sep 4, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> My point is, any band that is succesful on a large scale, has a basic structure to their songs. Its not all just random noise. And isnt success what we're all after since the moment we picked up a guitar? We've all dreamed about playing soldout arenas. "I only want to play in my garage for 15 hardcore fans.." said no guitarist ever.


 And then some of us realized we have no passion for mass appeal music and would rather do the cathartic art thing than worry about playing sold out arenas. I would rather shoot my dick off with a nail gun than do something like 5FDP or Disturbed or Papa Roach.



Karmaic said:


> Every guitarist can pump out some chromatic gibberish.


 No, they can't actually.



Karmaic said:


> But when writing actual music, they go to the basic structure. It has a history of success. Less is more. "If its not broke, dont fix it" applies to writing good music.


 "Good music" is an entirely subjective thing unless you're referring strictly to financial success, to which I would say millions of people eat at McDonald's and they make arguably some of the shittiest food on the planet.


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## MetalHex (Sep 4, 2019)

Pietjepieter said:


> If you don't like unstructural chaos, don't listen to it... if you like it, also cool.
> 
> There is no good or bad. Is some thing no music if it doesn't follow some rules?


 The point of having a discussion is so people can express what they like and dont like and agree or disagree. If everyone had the mentallity you do, there would never be any discussion ever about anything; because, who cares? If you truly didn't care, you would not have posted.


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## c7spheres (Sep 4, 2019)

In order to be music there must be some form for organized sound and/or silence. If it's not purposely organised it is not music it is just sound/noise. Whether we can recognize that structure or not is our own shortcoming if we can't. Music is organized sound and silence. Abstract organized noises and sounds is music, just not traditional or standard.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Sep 4, 2019)

That is why, Suffocation.


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## Pietjepieter (Sep 4, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> The point of having a discussion is so people can express what they like and dont like and agree or disagree. If everyone had the mentallity you do, there would never be any discussion ever about anything; because, who cares? If you truly didn't care, you would not have posted.



Things as music and other forms of art are up to personal taste. If somebody likes chaotic riffs without any structure, thats cool, and if someone likes structured music with (according to western standards) nice harmonic parts thats also cool. You can't really have a discussion about that, cause in the end everyone likes what he likes. 

You can have discussions about plenty of things, but discussions about taste are (in mine opinion) pointless.

The reason i posted it is that i was surprised how serious people take this kind of things


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## MetalHex (Sep 4, 2019)

Pietjepieter said:


> Things as music and other forms of art are up to personal taste. If somebody likes chaotic riffs without any structure, thats cool, and if someone likes structured music with (according to western standards) nice harmonic parts thats also cool. You can't really have a discussion about that, cause in the end everyone likes what he likes.
> 
> You can have discussions about plenty of things, but discussions about taste are (in mine opinion) pointless.
> 
> The reason i posted it is that i was surprised how serious people take this kind of things


So questions like
Whats your favorite neck shape?
What size strings do you prefer for 25.5?
What pickup do you think goes best with this?
Which amp has the best cleans?
Do you prefer big booty or little booty?

These kind if "preference" questions should never ever be discussed and talked about? Haha


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## Pietjepieter (Sep 4, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> So questions like
> Whats your favorite neck shape?
> What size strings do you prefer for 25.5?
> What pickup do you think goes best with this?
> ...



Yeah you kind talk about those things, off course. 

Whats your favourite neck shape for instance: I don't like the typical ibby wizzard neck that much, i prefer some thing more round. I can explain why etc. And maybe you have an other opinion. So you say hell i love a wizzard, and explains why. So we both know each other neck shape... and thats it. Done and over. 

So yeah you can talk about those things, you can advise people (stringsize vs tension vs sound etc.) You can say that you hate the cleans of AMPX with reason, and someone can say he loves the cleans of AMPX of whatever reason, and thats fun, you learn something from it etc. 

I am just surprised how serious people can be upset or discuss the taste of an other. I love music, and take it very serious however i love the things i love, if someone does not like the music i love, no problem. And if someone loves the music i hate, thats also no problem


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## MetalHex (Sep 4, 2019)

Pietjepieter said:


> I am just surprised how serious people can be upset or discuss the taste of an other. I love music, and take it very serious however i love the things i love, if someone does not like the music i love, no problem. And if someone loves the music i hate, thats also no problem



I fully understand what you mean.


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## c7spheres (Sep 4, 2019)

It's not about big or little booty for me, but more so the shape and firmness of the booty. : )


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## Karmaic (Sep 5, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> And then some of us realized we have no passion for mass appeal music and would rather do the cathartic art thing than worry about playing sold out arenas. I would rather shoot my dick off with a nail gun than do something like 5FDP or Disturbed or Papa Roach.
> 
> No, they can't actually.
> 
> "Good music" is an entirely subjective thing unless you're referring strictly to financial success, to which I would say millions of people eat at McDonald's and they make arguably some of the shittiest food on the planet.



If a rock/metal guitarist cant throw down some sort of chromatic riff, they should probably switch genres. Also, whats wrong with 5FDP? They have some pretty nice riffs and a few badass solos that is actually enjoyable to listen to for a change. 90% of solos sound like pure garbage now days. Jekyll and Hyde was pretty good.


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## Acaciastrain360 (Sep 5, 2019)

To Structure or not to Structure?
You be the judge... 1.4m views in 1 week sorta shows that simple song structure isn’t everything


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## c7spheres (Sep 5, 2019)

Acaciastrain360 said:


> To Structure or not to Structure?
> You be the judge... 1.4m views in 1 week sorta shows that simple song structure isn’t everything



I think Poppy has been eating or smoking poppy's : ) I like it. It's a simple structure just very contrasting. Guitars sound like a synth to me for some reason.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 5, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> Every guitarist can pump out some chromatic gibberish.



Yeah, but is it chromatic brutality?


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## Aumann (Sep 5, 2019)

Honestly, i know of no band that has no structure in their songs, and i listen to a lot of music. Some have more complex structures, some less, some have very gradual transitions, some very sudden.

Any examples of these modern bands that apparently have no structure?


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## Ilia Tilev (Sep 5, 2019)

I don't follow any structure and i love it.. I don't know.. Maybe because people are bored with the same Verse Chorus Verse thing and they get bored


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## GunpointMetal (Sep 5, 2019)

Karmaic said:


> Also, whats wrong with 5FDP


 literally everything
Nu/Groove metal ripoff riffs.
Third-grade reading level lyrical content.
Frat-bro with a head injury delivery.
Domestic violence. 
Ruining covers, somehow.


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## isotropy (Sep 5, 2019)

Sorry you missed the joke? Idk what else to say... 



Poul Winther Knudsen said:


> Who said there was? We're talking about good ways vs. bad ways, sorry you missed the point.


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