# Headless evertune concept/idea



## Grif (May 26, 2014)

headless evertune is usually an oxymoron in the sense that you need tuners to bring the string to tension before tuning the string at the evertune, so my thought was okay just make really compact tuners compatible with the evertune that still fits a headless. so my thought is that you take a threaded insert and put it in the area behind the nut on a headless for each string then have a screw like piece that can screw into the insert. the screw piece will have a hex key hole at the top so you can turn the screw and like a normal tuner it will have a whole for a string to slip through the spool, start "tuning" like you would with a normal guitar just to get tension (using the allen wrench of course) then actually tune with the bridge, bam headless evertune guitar. seeing as these arent stock parts one would would have to machine them (which i cannot) and would have to have an evertune ready to mount to a spare board (which again, i do not have) so i cannot personally test this however i really like the idea of this and hopefully it would work. thoughts? i tried to do a really quick mapping out of my thoughts in paint, uh not the greatest depiction, looks a lot more - professional- in my mind.

EDIT: this is all under the assumption the screw doesnt slip under tension of the string, however ive never had any issue of a screw slipping how im imagining in any situation, just an after thought though


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## Hollowway (May 26, 2014)

Seems like it would work. It's not really a true headless anymore, but that's splitting hairs. But yeah, I think that should work. You'd have to pull the string pretty right first, because you can't get away with too much winding on the peg there.


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## Grif (May 26, 2014)

thats fair about it not being headless at that point, but hey its good enough for me, plus its a concept i cant even test just figured id put the idea out there


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## downburst82 (May 26, 2014)

Nice idea! seems like it would probably work

Another idea I think I saw mentioned in another thread was a removable "headstock" that you attach to the guitar when restringing. Lock it on, restring and tune/string stretch as normal, lock the strings down, remove "headstock"....voila!!!??


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## Grif (May 26, 2014)

seems like that would work too! of course im biased towards my idea  but im glad to hear that im not the only one throwing something at headless-ish evertunes


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## Pikka Bird (May 26, 2014)

If you use a locking nut then there's no way it could slip, but I don't see it being rock solid with a regular nut unless I'm missing something.


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## Grif (May 26, 2014)

i thought about adding a locking nut but it seems like it would work without, however it would be a logical precaution


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## Grif (May 26, 2014)

here's a quick revision


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## Pikka Bird (May 26, 2014)

How would you keep it from unwinding without a locking nut? There's no worm gear to hold the post in place, and no friction like you have on ye olde classical instruments (unless you get some _really_ accurate threads custom machined into the post and the insert).


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## Wings of Obsidian (May 26, 2014)

Also keep in mind that if you're running a threaded screw/tuner INTO the cross section of the neck, it can only go so deep. So I'm imagining that you'd have to put the string through to the tuner (relatively close to tension), thread it though....but then the problem is this...where do you go from here? You can start to rotate the tuning mechanism to wrap the string around the post a few times, but you do have to be careful with how deep you go. If your cylindrical tuning mechanism were LOCKING somehow, then this would be a perfect concept. Stringing up would be easier with less turning/burrowing down into the neck, as well as eliminating the risk of a string slipping in the tuner's post. (Plus, it'll give you space for a zero fret and you'd be able to eliminate the locking nut, which risks a problem since it'll have to be pretty damn close to the tuners due to the lack of a headstock and the pitch angle of the strings going from the tuner's post to that locking nut is a dangerous angle if you envision it).


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## celticelk (May 26, 2014)

Hmm. You might need to make the headstock a little bit bigger, but maybe you could do this with Steinberger gearless tuners? That would remove the need to mill special parts for the headstock.


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## Pikka Bird (May 26, 2014)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Plus, it'll give you space for a zero fret and you'd be able to eliminate the locking nut...


Explain...? How does the post not loosen itself due to the pull of the string? Your observation on the string angle when leaving the nut it important, though.


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## Wings of Obsidian (May 26, 2014)

Pikka Bird said:


> Explain...? How does the post not loosen itself due to the pull of the string? Your observation on the string angle when leaving the nut it important, though.



I have a Schecter with locking tuners and they don't loosen themselves. 

If you want tuners that can mechanically lock inside and NOT twist/turn/etc., I suggest researching into the design behind the Earl Scruggs banjo tuners. Those things are great because they have a system where you can drop tune a string be certain increments and hit it perfectly, then tune back up. (The pins inside the tuner that mark the point for rotation of the tuning head to stop and start to change the pitch of the string are a unique invention, and of course, they prevent the string from slipping.)


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## Pikka Bird (May 27, 2014)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I have a Schecter with locking tuners and they don't loosen themselves.



Yeah, but this is not something that works via a worm gear, so in essence it's just a regular machine screw with a hole drilled through it that's going into a threaded insert. I'm not talking about the string slipping out through the hole, but the actual post rotating back and detuning.


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## Hollowway (May 27, 2014)

Yeah, I think the locking but would solve this detuning issue pretty well. It's not clear how many windings you could reduce it to. OP, is this an academic argument, or are you going to have them made? If it's all up in the air we can come up with a couple of neat concepts.


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## Grif (May 27, 2014)

im not having this made so this is all up in the air, if someone wants to try it out more power to him/her. i just really want to see what people can come up with, hopefully to achieve 1 goal: a headless evertune-equipped guitar, or as close as possible


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## downburst82 (May 27, 2014)

A little off the original concept but would it be possible to do something with modified gotoh stealth tuners? Maybe lose the button/modify the.."button shaft"?? to be as small as possible and take a hex key?

Just throwing ideas out there 

STEALTH-KEYS


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## downburst82 (May 27, 2014)

I still think I like your idea the best..it would be so simple and minimal! there might be the issue of it unwinding as mentioned since as the design stands now the "tuners post screw" doesn't "lock" into the insert, but a locking nut would solve that. You might want a locking nut that lets you lock each string individually?

The best would be to figure out a way to make the "tuner post screw" lock into the insert with no need for an extra locking nut. That would be such a sleek, minimal design. Might be hard to do though (my 1:15am brain can't think of anything)


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## vansinn (May 27, 2014)

As already said, it may not that easy getting a threaded screw to lock.
Why not simply use the smallest locking mini tuners, like mini banjo tuners, outfitted with Scheller round knobs, mounted as close together as possible?

Also, IIRC, very small ratio tuners going directly through, i.e. with the knob sticking out on the underside of the head, does exist, which would allow close-spacing them in different patterns.
Dunno how such would take heavier string gauges on a multi-stringer, though, but I also don't know if the Evertune is (yet) available for 8(+) strings, so..

For sure, this won't be headless, but at least it's be a rather small head.
(on a personal note, I don't really like the looks of a chopped-off headless  )


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## iron blast (May 27, 2014)

I like the idea of locking banjo tuners and round knobs


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