# NTSD



## ralphy1976 (Jan 21, 2011)

As some of you know, i self banned myself from any GAS for 2011 choosing instead to re-direct my energy (and non-implicitly my $$) towards DIY project, namely pickups, amps and pedals (this by the is still going on in the development phase)

However out of all instruments i like, there is one which to me is more a sculpture than anything else. i have always wanted one and now i HAVE one, and it is a tenor one too.

Thanks to The Armada for suggesting a Tenor one, it is truly badass and weight a freaking ton!!!! ($120 on ebay, picked it up from a guy leaving 10 minutes away from my flat!!!)


So here we go (i need some new socks!!!!! ) : 






















NO i can not play it

NO i can not read music

but i am planning on playing a jazz version of RATM by Xmas...:golf: yeah!!


----------



## Hybrid138 (Jan 21, 2011)

Very nice. Good luck on learning.


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 21, 2011)

Very nice, if you don't mind me asking how well does it handle low Bb. Cheaper phones can have a lot of trouble generating that well/easily. It has been about 6 years since I played a sax, I used to really enjoy it but never owned one.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 21, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Very nice, if you don't mind me asking how well does it handle low Bb. Cheaper phones can have a lot of trouble generating that well/easily. It has been about 6 years since I played a sax, I used to really enjoy it but never owned one.



as soon as i know how to do a Bb i will tell you.

right now i have the reeds on order, so i will try blowing my own trumpet next week!!!

so i have a bit of time to (re)learn how to read music

this things is beastly and the strap is so cheap that it stop blood flowing through my neck within 10 minutes, so i have ordered a better one now!!!

i am really really looking forward to trying it, really a childhood dream..i hope it will turn into a nightmare!!!!


----------



## JamesM (Jan 21, 2011)

Sick!


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 21, 2011)

ralphy1976 said:


> as soon as i know how to do a Bb i will tell you.
> 
> right now i have the reeds on order, so i will try blowing my own trumpet next week!!!
> 
> ...



Start with thin reeds, it will make your life easier.


----------



## Bevo (Jan 21, 2011)

That is so cool!

I always look at them and wonder what it would be like to play.


----------



## GATA4 (Jan 22, 2011)

This is the corniest, most pathetic joke I will ever make in my entire existence on this Earth but I MUST say it:

That thing kicks brass.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 22, 2011)

ok, question to those of you who know their music theory (ie not me)

this instrument is based on playing notes rather than chords (it seems).

i know i can play major and minor scales and i understand how they are linked. 

now on a guitar / bass i can play chords and variation of chords, major, minor, 7th..etc..

so i play a Cmaj7 on my guitar, what is the rule to find out which notes are the Cmaj7 scale so i can use those on my sax?

thanks
ps : still no reeds, so i am just reading music right now!!!


----------



## Tomo009 (Jan 22, 2011)

Well soon SchecterWhore will give you an essay on everything you could possibly need on the subject, I'm not great with theory but....

Just look at the notes in a Cmaj7 
CEGB, yo ucan basically play any scale that includes those notes, so for example just straight C major. The B reduces your options a bit though. No C Mixolydian for example as it has a b7, Bb not B. 

I'll try and come up with some options in a minute, but my feeble brain doesn't work all that fast.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 22, 2011)

yeah , problem with shecterwhore is that he is way beyond my league, and his explanation hurt my brain, but i am always thankful and amazed at what that guy nows!!!

so there isn't really a Cmajor 7 scale as there is a Cmajor scale. i must find scales which incorporates the notes used in the chords played...bummer...


----------



## Tomo009 (Jan 22, 2011)

ralphy1976 said:


> yeah , problem with shecterwhore is that he is way beyond my league, and his explanation hurt my brain, but i am always thankful and amazed at what that guy nows!!!
> 
> so there isn't really a Cmajor 7 scale as there is a Cmajor scale. i must find scales which incorporates the notes used in the chords played...bummer...



There's a heap of 7 chords in jazz as far as I know, so generally your options on each chord can be quite strict. But obviously if you are changing chords every half bar or bar or so, 7 notes will seem a lot anyway.

I would suggest just a major scale from the 1st over a maj7 chord. The most important thing to learn and remember I believe is the major scale from different degrees, modes, though you probably wont be using them in any modal music.

I still refer to them as modes for ease of conveying what I mean but some elitists will get annoyed at that. But just remember for example, D dorian is C major from the 2nd, E phrygian is C major from the 3rd etc.


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Jan 22, 2011)

Actually, from a theory student standpoint, you're learning it in reverse. Most Theory 101 courses start with rhythms, then go to scales, keys, and chords, followed by simple cadences and progressions. (of course there's overlap, but it sure helps to know what a C major scale is before you try to figure out what a C major chord is...)

My suggestion is to learn how scales are constructed, and then apply that to what you already know about chords. That way you'll easily be able to figure out the notes you need to play just from your knowledge of how the chord is made. If you have the time and money, some community colleges offer basic theory courses for pretty cheap. If you try to teach yourself, it's not impossible, but you'll be at a disadvantage from the beginning.

And Tomo, modes are nice, but for a beginning theory student can get mega confusing (then again, what isn't at that stage?). I'd stick to major and the different flavors of minor (natural, melodic, harmonic).


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 22, 2011)

thanks for pitching in Shane. 

I know how scales are built as well as chords, i understand the idea behind lydian, eolian and all this. Eventhough i am not totally verse i still manage (with time) to get my head around it!!!

i shall investigate further!!!


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 23, 2011)

update : i have found a website which talks about 7th / others scales for saxophons..great!!!!!


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 23, 2011)

Sax is hard, ive been trying to learn it for afew years now, although obviously not alot of time spent (due to guitar/bass) but I eventually want it to be my main instrument. Its just the best. Altho I will miss some of the speedy shred stuff you can do on guitar, which is gonna be SUPER hard to do that fast on sax, I think it'll replace all my complaints about guitar as an instrument.

As far as the sax itself, looks nice and shiny but its hard to say how it compares as a player.. One thing I found out unfortunately is that Sax isnt like guitars; you cant just buy a cheap $100 sax and get it to play decent enough like cheap guitars can.. Although maybe that one is fine, obviously cant tell until you try multiple sax's. I will say my $200 Vito Alto (which is made in the Yamaha factory apparently) is very hard to blow thru, compared to the Selmers and other horns I tried at the store recently.

Sax is a very expensive instrument to pick up, if you want a super easy-blowing strong tone sound =[ Im about to drop $2000 on one soon, and its not even a pro model lol

My advice as far as learning to play; Get a teacher.. You can blow into it and it will make notes, but getting the proper embrochure and exact way to use your breathe (almost like singers need training) is the key, and that is where I fail right now since I havent taken lessons yet.. I can play every note up and down the sax, but without that proper training I dont think I can go much further than this.. Teacher is quite important for improving fast on Sax, esp if you already know enough theory because the hard part of the Sax is actually playing it, unlike guitar where the hard part is the theory/knowing every chord position.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 23, 2011)

As for right now, practice rhythm/"tonguing".. that means, you use your tongue to stop your breath to make it rhythmic and fit into the phrases.. Longtones are nice and fun, but when you get to playing melody (which I assume is your goal) you need to be able to accent the notes with perfect timing, not just slur everything together.

Metronome it up as always, and try to play 4 notes separated in time to the metronome by stopping the airflow with your tongue. Keep increasing the speed until you can do it quite fast. Then mix up the rhythms so its not just quarter notes, etc. Add in actual notes eventually and then try easy songs (mary had a little lamb/etc)


----------



## jymellis (Jan 23, 2011)

early INXS has some good sax parts


----------



## aiur55 (Jan 23, 2011)

Not wanting to derail the thread but I saw the thread title as NSTD...(new std).


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 24, 2011)

aiur55 said:


> Not wanting to derail the thread but I saw the thread title as NSTD...(new std).



yeah i know, that's why i wrote it like that!!..good eyes sir!! 




NickCormier said:


> Sax is hard, ive been trying to learn it for afew years now, although obviously not alot of time spent (due to guitar/bass) but I eventually want it to be my main instrument. Its just the best. Altho I will miss some of the speedy shred stuff you can do on guitar, which is gonna be SUPER hard to do that fast on sax, I think it'll replace all my complaints about guitar as an instrument.
> 
> As far as the sax itself, looks nice and shiny but its hard to say how it compares as a player.. One thing I found out unfortunately is that Sax isnt like guitars; you cant just buy a cheap $100 sax and get it to play decent enough like cheap guitars can.. Although maybe that one is fine, obviously cant tell until you try multiple sax's. I will say my $200 Vito Alto (which is made in the Yamaha factory apparently) is very hard to blow thru, compared to the Selmers and other horns I tried at the store recently.
> 
> ...



Yes i agree with you on everything. I am under no illusions that it is not a hard instrument. I am still waiting for my reeds, which should arrive this week, but in the meantime i have been practising the fingering for A B C D E F G and it is very simple..so i guess everything comes from the blowing...

If i progress well and i like it i will invest in a more expensive one for sure, but this time i will go and try one!!!


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 24, 2011)

Remember Ralphy, Playing C on that thing isn't C, it is a transposing instrument (just as no one has mentioned it yet). 

Tonguing notes will come with practice, I personally never had trouble with it. Sax overall I did not find terribly difficult in the 4 years I played. Got to do In The Mood the one time, breaking the octave (you are playing above and below on the main line) was the challenge there. It has a lot to do with air pressure applied (you can do it without the key too, but that is more work).


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 24, 2011)

yeah i know ..C isn't C!!! it is a transposing instrument.


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 24, 2011)

^ just making sure. Good Stuff


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Jan 24, 2011)

ralphy1976 said:


> yeah i know ..C isn't C!!! it is a transposing instrument.



How could I forget this stuff? I was a trumpet player for marching band in college...Concert Bb instrument. Not a hard transposition, really.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 25, 2011)

from what i read on the 2 books i have a tenor sax is 9 notes lower than a standard instrument. O joy!!!

is a guitar classified as a standard instrument?


----------



## beneharris (Jan 25, 2011)

ralphy1976 said:


> is a guitar classified as a standard instrument?



i believe guitar counts as a C instrument, when in normal tuning anyways.


your sax is in Bb, so like somebody said above, its a real easy transposition. a real good one to start with


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 25, 2011)

ralphy1976 said:


> from what i read on the 2 books i have a tenor sax is 9 notes lower than a standard instrument. O joy!!!
> 
> is a guitar classified as a standard instrument?



9 Notes = 1 note and an octave  If you think about it that way it is much simpler than adding or subtracting 9. Essentially when you play middle C on piano, Sax C will be one octave down ,and 2 semitones flat (a Bb) so you need to play a D to get the C (that is my understanding anyway)


----------



## 7string_dreamin (Jan 25, 2011)

that is sick! I usta play the Alto Sax and Baritone Sax in high school. Playing Mars by Gustav Holsts was so unbelievably EPIC!


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 26, 2011)

i HAZ a tenor reed...tonight is the night i lose my saxophon virginity!!!

video to follow!!!! \m/\m/


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 26, 2011)

One thing to learn quickly is how to control your volume, I have known guys who played for a few years and never quite got it.. Very bad.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 26, 2011)

yeah i know, that's what i am mostly worried about.

i also ordered a mute!!!! just in case!!! \m/\m/


----------



## SirMyghin (Jan 26, 2011)

Mutes are good, because then you can actually practice a piece with closer to proper dynamics, instead of just at pianissimo (pp).


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 26, 2011)

ok, i have had a 20 minutes try at it :

1 - i get a sound
2 - it is quite hard to always get the same sound with the same attack
3 - i can not wait for my mute so i can try to blow harder
4 - i can do : C B A G and then i die!!

conclusion : i love it!!!!


----------



## 7string_dreamin (Jan 26, 2011)

you're making me wish I had my sax again!


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 26, 2011)

i have to say that it felt really cool to be blowing something in a tube and then being able to hit some notes!!

plus a tenor sax is badass!! best $120 i have spent in a while!!!!

need to work on my embouchure


----------



## JamesM (Jan 26, 2011)

You go my man. 

I love your enthusiasm. At that pace, you'll be up and running in no time. To be honest, the only reason I learned Sax originally was for a client (they required it in the job parameters), but it was just so much fun so I kept goin.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 26, 2011)

i booked friday pm off so that i can practise a lot...i want to be able to play the canon from pachbell by the end of the week-end!!!!


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 27, 2011)

got some carbon reed today, going to swap it for my wood one.

Also got a nice strap and a cool stand, i think i might be too loud tonight, but fuck it, i'll give it a blow!!!!

A good pair of hands, a good blow..what else does a man need to be happy really??!!! \m/\m/


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone (Jan 27, 2011)

Fuck yeah, almost another sax man!

I play the Tenor myself, and a major tip I have to give you if you want to stay in good health: get a new neck strap. I see that dinky little one in the case and, if you ever want to play for extended periods of time on a regular basis standing up, you need something with padding. Not only will that give you a rash on your neck(From slight movements of the neck strap and your neck), but it will start to feel heavy. Padding helps spread that weight around, and won't give you a rash. I reccomend a Neotech Soft Sax strap.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 27, 2011)

yeah yeah you are right, the 1st thing i bought was another strap. This is the one i got : 

ZAPPATINI TRAGEGURT SAXOPHON REGULAR - Thomann UK Cyberstore

pretty cool, i am trying it tonight!!

Just as a benchmark : how did it take you to have a decent embouchure?


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone (Jan 27, 2011)

I've never seen those used with a tenor before, only on a guy marching with a bari, though that definitely looks comfortable.

My embouchure started to get tight after a month I think, the muscles in my mouth wren't very strong, plus I couldn't remember to roll my lower lip over my teeth. I recently had to adjust as over the summer I had gotten an Otto Link Super Tone New York, which is a slim tenor mouthpiece.

EDIT- Didn't notice the post above my last one.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 27, 2011)

i find the "proper" embouchure to be quite uncomfortable, but i guess i'll have to force my body to accept it.

Since i am alone this week-end i shall practise as much as i can!!!


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jan 28, 2011)

so..1 hour of practise later, and : 

1 - blowing is tiring
2 - my sax drips a lot cause i heat up to much!!
3 - i can not hit G alone but i can in a roll of notes
4 - i can do C B A G F E D C and not back up as i am running out of air!!!

and it is fucking great as an instrument...well if you like your blowing hard of course!!!!


----------

