# Best boogie for tight/aggressive tone (djent-esque)



## aawshred (Sep 7, 2011)

Which mesa boogie amplifer do you think would have the most tight, aggressive, and articulate tone? Road king? mark V?


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## Doomcreeper (Sep 7, 2011)

I think any of there high gain ones should do fine if eq'd right, try one out. I can get a good Djent sound out of my Stiletto witha vox 212 cab, I don't play djent but can achieve those tones when I play those kinds of riffs no problem, a lot of that tone just comes from how you play also don't put the gain too high, turn your mids up a bit(more than bass or treble would go usually) adjust the treble and bass to taste so that it's clear and has a good attack. A lot of people will also use a tubescreamer but I personally don't use any boost with my amp. Sorry if a lot of this ended up being run on sentences, I'm pretty tired and just on my way to bed and checking the boards before hand


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## aawshred (Sep 7, 2011)

No problem at all, i appreciate your input. Once i get my tubes changed out on my mark V, i'm going to fiddle with the 5 band eq and maybe even try putting a pedal in front of it.


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## pathos45 (Sep 7, 2011)

i highly suggest throwing a overdrive in front play in the mark iv mode in channel 3 have the gain at about noon, volume to taste, pres at about 1:30 oclock, treb at the same maybe a little bit less, mids at about half and run bass at about 8:30. On your geq scoop the mid slidder a little bit (if it sounds too scooped for you boost the mids in the pre amp section to the same as pres), then have the the far left one at about a hair or two over half and the second one at half, then on the treb side have the fourth slidder at the same as the first one (the far left one) and then have the last slidder at taste. Also play with the fx input as it changes the tone a little bit, and el34s help alot!


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## aawshred (Sep 7, 2011)

How do el34s in the mark v compare to 6l6s?


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## holland1945 (Sep 7, 2011)

Most mesa amps have a very loose feel. I think the Mark V does a pretty good job at what you are looking for. Throw an 808 or TS9 in front of it with a gate and go.


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## pathos45 (Sep 7, 2011)

aawshred said:


> How do el34s in the mark v compare to 6l6s?


 
i def prefered the el34s over the 6l6s in the amp but its all matter of taste. I found it to have a tighter sound and have a very good bite to the tone wheres with the 6l6 it jsut sounded loose to me, not that it was a problem just i liked the sounds of the els more.


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## Dead Undead (Sep 7, 2011)

If I wanted to djent, I wouldn't get a MESA, tbh. Mark V would be your best bet I think, though.


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## Rook (Sep 8, 2011)

^Tesseract would beg to differ. They only used Peaveys in the USA because they got a good deal, they were using *boosted* dual rectifiers here for the last 5 years and for good reason.

The key to a good, tight, 'djent' sound is attack, and the seriously hard, aggressive attack you need to get a good djent sound you can only get a with a boost. Compression and a noise gate on top of that help, but the boost is important. Yes there are gainy enough amps out there to get a tight high gain sound, but you don't get that insanely tight attack without some sort of boost.
What you want to do is hit the front end of your amp's gain stage with loads of treble, and you don't want to cut bass and mids, but you definitely don't want to boost them. Once you have that, most modern amps will tighten up siginificantly, and all that matters from one amp to the next is post gain-stage EQ.Pozt gain stage EQ isn't just the equaliser section, everything in the signal chain will have an effect of the sound; power amp tubes, headroom/power, and the tone stack itself.

I personally think that Road series Mesas sound best boosted because they're quite dark amps, so all that treble you're throwing into the front end doesn't get past the post gainstage EQ and kill your ears. You get a massive, booming power section, a nice tight attack (with a boost) and a really versatile EQ section that has a really nice ffect on how the power amp works, it's very adaptable.

I'd take a Roadster or Road King and boost it (and I do). Tbh, if you get your pre gain-stage signal chain right, any modern hi gain amp will djent, and do so well. There's the technique aspect too but we're not discussing that.


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## Doomcreeper (Sep 8, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^Tesseract would beg to differ. They only used Peaveys in the USA because they got a good deal, they were using *boosted* dual rectifiers here for the last 5 years and for good reason.
> 
> The key to a good, tight, 'djent' sound is attack, and the seriously hard, aggressive attack you need to get a good djent sound you can only get a with a boost. Compression and a noise gate on top of that help, but the boost is important. Yes there are gainy enough amps out there to get a tight high gain sound, but you don't get that insanely tight attack without some sort of boost.
> What you want to do is hit the front end of your amp's gain stage with loads of treble, and you don't want to cut bass and mids, but you definitely don't want to boost them. Once you have that, most modern amps will tighten up siginificantly, and all that matters from one amp to the next is post gain-stage EQ.Pozt gain stage EQ isn't just the equaliser section, everything in the signal chain will have an effect of the sound; power amp tubes, headroom/power, and the tone stack itself.
> ...



From what I've read and from experience it's better to turn up the mids more instead of the treble because it helps it cut through where as the treble boosting can get pretty harsh.


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 8, 2011)

All depends on the amp.


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## XEN (Sep 8, 2011)

Maxon OD808 into a Roadster with E34Ls or EL34s... very yummy.


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## KAMI (Sep 8, 2011)

why only mesa amps?
get an Engl invader or savage they are two of the best amps the best amps for getting that djent tone
or get an axe-fx which can do it all


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## aawshred (Sep 8, 2011)

Alright i have a few questions regarding the EQ, boost, and compressor

Would an EQ be necessary if my amp has a built in five band EQ?
Would the compressor and boost go straight into the amp, and in what order?
And are we talking like a pure class A clean volume boost, or more like tube screamer with volume cranked and gain turned down?


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## Rook (Sep 8, 2011)

Doomcreeper said:


> From what I've read and from experience it's better to turn up the mids more instead of the treble because it helps it cut through where as the treble boosting can get pretty harsh.



Depends where in the signal chain and how your boosting.

Using a tubescreamer for example naturally promotes high end, turning the tone all the way up more so, but it doesn't cut any more bass and the treble isn't that high frequencywise. The treble absolutely will not get harsh if after your gain stage you don't boost highs like a mother lover. If you're going for an 'ultra' gain (as I call it) cound, then the compression will iron out harshness and the lack of cut that you refer to and leave you with a blank canvas of guitar-like audio that can then be post-gain-stage EQ'd to add 'cut', to scoop, to boost the bass for rumble or add highs for presence.

I disagree with putting mids into the front for 'djent', mid to low mids anyway, this is what Marshall started doing with the TSL and JVM stuff, and Marshall TSL and JVM amps will not 'djent' out of the box.

Treble into the front for attack, mids after the gain for cut.




aawshred said:


> Alright i have a few questions regarding the EQ, boost, and compressor
> 
> 1.Would an EQ be necessary if my amp has a built in five band EQ?
> 2.Would the compressor and boost go straight into the amp, and in what order?
> 3.And are we talking like a pure class A clean volume boost, or more like tube screamer with volume cranked and gain turned down?



1. Depends where you put the EQ, if it's up front, then yeah you can use an EQ, some people chose EQ instead of a boost, others use both. If you were going to use it in the loop it would be redundant.
2. You'd go guitar->compressor->boost->amp. In general, you group all gain stages together. The boost is designed to increase the size and modify the shape of the peaks of your guitar signal, running this into a compressor would mean you got the EQ effect of the boost (though minimised, as is the point of a compressor) but lose the sharp attack and gain increase. If you compress the signal before a boost you get the increase in sustain and a very even platform from which to boost, rather than the uneven (potentially bass lacking or over mid strong for example) signal AND then gain increase from the boost. If you don't have an excessively bassy or twangy amp (for example) and your guitar is already pretty balanced sounding, you'd be using the compressor more to stop a noise gate from cutting off your sustain, or to make very quiet tapping or legato licks pop a bit more.
3.Either. A clean boost however doesn't give you the EQ difference though, so in order for this to work well you'd have to already have quite a bright guitar. If a guitar has a very muddy or bassy signal, a clean boost will only increase this. If you wanted to be safe and go from high gain, good response but not hard hitting or excessively high gain, a boost like a tubescreamer would be the quicker and much easier route.

Different stroke for different folks though, if you already had what I consider an ultra gain amp (like ENGL or a 6505) then a clean boost with some loud, bright pickups will more than get you where you want to go. I wouldn't use a compressor and clean boost as compressors tend to fight excessive brightness and attack.


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## aawshred (Sep 8, 2011)

What compressor do you recommend?


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## EOT (Sep 8, 2011)

Keeley makes a good one.Or an MXR can work if you don't want to shell out the money for the Keeley. But the Keeley is better.


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## TRENCHLORD (Sep 9, 2011)

aawshred said:


> What compressor do you recommend?


 
 What pickups ya rockin?

This can make the difference in what and how many pedals you'll need out front. If your using actives then a single boost (which ever ts type) might be all the compression you'll want.


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## Rook (Sep 9, 2011)

^+1


As for what compressor, don't go MXR, they're fine but for higher gain applications they just seem to be too noisy. They use a voltage controlled amplifier, hence the noise, but the Keeley 2K and 4K (identical just the 2K has two knobs inside instead on the face) as well as the Maxon CP101 are optical compressors meaning you get a much sweeter sound and pretty much no noise (unless you have noisy pickups). I strongly suggest spending the extra and getting a high end optical compressor, it's worth it.


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## aawshred (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm going to be using ceramic warpig 8 string. and i've always heard amazing things about this, 

Effectrode Tube Effects Pedals | Photo-optical Compressor

but i'll definitely go optical one way or another. maybe the diamond compressor as well.


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## Rook (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't know much about it, but it is optical, so it will be better than your average boss or MXR pedal.

If you like the look of it then give it a go I guess 

True bypass isn't always a good thing, but if it's as quiet and transparent as they claim, should be good.


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## EdgeCrusher (Sep 9, 2011)

I'd get a Tubescreamer before the compressor pedal, IMO a noise gate and TS808 or OD808 is all you need. It will tighten up and compress your tone just enough to get it where you want. Those two things in front of your Mark V =


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## aawshred (Sep 9, 2011)

What noise gate do you recommend?


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## KAMI (Sep 9, 2011)

aawshred said:


> What noise gate do you recommend?



I recommend the boss ns-2... 
put it in the loop on the mute setting and set the threshold and decay to what you want and you got a killer noise suppressor... (for this the effect must not be powered... E.G not battery or 9v adapter).


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## KAMI (Sep 9, 2011)

but this is what I would do:

guitar--> buffer--> tuner--> compressor--> noise suppressor--> overdrive
--> noise suppressor--> amp

(you don't need a tuner to get that djent tone, but it's a nice little touch to help tune your guitar)

I'm saving up so I can do this...


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## 4Eyes (Sep 9, 2011)

aawshred said:


> What noise gate do you recommend?


ISP Decimator


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 9, 2011)

KAMI said:


> but this is what I would do:
> 
> guitar--> buffer--> tuner--> compressor--> noise suppressor--> overdrive
> --> noise suppressor--> amp
> ...



A. You don't need the buffer; most good tuners have one. If not, the compressor definitely will.

B. Why two separate noise gates after the compressor and overdrive? Seems like overkill; if you're compressing the signal that much, buy a Line 6 head.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Sep 9, 2011)

Triple recto, ts9, and ISP decimator.


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## mikemueller2112 (Sep 9, 2011)

A lot of it depends on EQ and what you have in front, as others have said. I love the versatility of my Mark IV, I can get some djenty tones, but I'm not restricted to that. Obviously a bit biased, but I love my MKIV for that reason.


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## Rook (Sep 10, 2011)

I was pretty much gunna type what temjin wrote


Nothing new there...


Noise gate though, the ISP Decimator isn't expensive and is IMO, a better gate.


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## KAMI (Sep 10, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> A. You don't need the buffer; most good tuners have one. If not, the compressor definitely will.
> 
> B. Why two separate noise gates after the compressor and overdrive? Seems like overkill; if you're compressing the signal that much, buy a Line 6 head.



this is pretty much what Misha did when he had his invader, that worked didn't it?


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## Rook (Sep 10, 2011)

Doesn't mean it wasn't overkill, but he's a different person, different player, different guitars, different settings etc.

Try one, two isn't necessary, and a buffer is only necessary if you have some tone-sucking pedals.


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## groph (Sep 10, 2011)

I'd think something like a Mark IV or Mark V would be what you'd want. Lamb of God has one of the tightest tones out there and they've been using the Mark IV (might have gone to the Mark V by now) for ages. I think they use Seymour Duncan JB pickups or something like a Super Distortion. For pickups you'll probably want something medium - medium high output and bright. DiMarzio Evolution is another good choice.


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## KAMI (Sep 10, 2011)

but amp wise I would definitely recommend the engl savage cheaper, tighter, more aggressive and djent than mesa


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## asher (Sep 10, 2011)

groph said:


> I'd think something like a Mark IV or Mark V would be what you'd want. Lamb of God has one of the tightest tones out there and they've been using the Mark IV (might have gone to the Mark V by now) for ages. I think they use Seymour Duncan JB pickups or something like a Super Distortion. For pickups you'll probably want something medium - medium high output and bright. DiMarzio Evolution is another good choice.



I'm pretty sure that's right on the pickups; they've been on Mark V for a while now. Hell, with the new tubes and better strings and my TS9/EQ my Mark III 112 can get nice 'n tight.


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## asmegin_slayer (Sep 10, 2011)

Had a Mark V and these settings worked damn well. I tried adding a eq pedal to see if it made a significant difference in my tone. After experimenting for awhile, I had decided I just like the amp without the eq pedal. I do have a overdrive in the signal, but for *ONLY SOLOS!!*

Keep in mind this is going straight dry to a RGA321 (stock). 


Mode: Extreme
Wattage: 90 watts
EQ switch: EQ FS
CH3 Normal/Bright: Normal
----------------------
Sliders/Preset switch: Preset
Preset Depth: 1 o'clock
----------------------
REAR of the amp: Pentode mode

Gain: 3 o'clock
Master: N/A
Presence: 1 o'clock
Treble: 3-4 o'clock
Mid: 12:30 o'clock
Bass: 11 o'clock

I use the output and solo as my main master volume and solo volume for the leads.


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## VILARIKA (Sep 10, 2011)

Jake from Periphery's old setup:


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 10, 2011)

FWIW, I can get very "djenty" tones from my Budda Superdrive 30 (a high-gain tube-rectified open-back 30w EL84-driven 1x12 combo with a decidedly thick, un-modern gain voicing) with a boost, a midrangey pickup (JB, Aldrich), hitting the strings hard, and EQ'ing properly. On that particular amp, it's bass at 0, mids at 7, and treble at 6. Gain depends on how hot the pickups are. And, like I said, a Budda is hardly an ultra-tight modern metal monster straight out of the box.

So, it's more about learning your way around the gear you have and your own pick attack than it is about duplicating Misha's signal chain. So, pick the Mesa that you think sounds best for what you do, and learn to use it.

I like the Mark V for playing by myself and at lower volumes, but in a real heavy band setting nothing punches like a Recto. YMMV.


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## 4Eyes (Sep 11, 2011)

everybody who want djenty sound should start with improving his playing technique. look at the bulb when did monsters of higain shot out. no matter what amp he played, it still sounded "the same", bulbish like.


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## KAMI (Sep 11, 2011)

^^agreed, if you notice bulb had a more 'djenty' sound than the others. it's all about pick attack, the way you hit you strings and the way you palm mute... they're the three main things you need to consider when trying to get that djent 
sound... if you work on them you will get a killer dent sound. After you've mastered it, then you start looking for amps that will help you build on getting that djent sound. 

I could djent my orange th30 but it sounded wrong, it had this classic rock vibe to it. It just wasn't tight enough either so i'm replacing it with an engl savage 60. I'm trying to build my rig around the djent idea.


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## KAMI (Sep 11, 2011)

riot said:


> Just curious: if I were to use a parametric EQ (such as a Rane PE-15) instead of a TS-type pedal for the boost, how should I set up the EQ?



boost the mids and the highs significantly and cut the lows slightly


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## KAMI (Sep 11, 2011)

riot said:


> That I understand completely. My question is: what frequency ranges should I be boosting/cutting? I'm trying to replicate the TS pedal that Misha used in that "13 High Gain Amp Shootout" series; because it sounded like an instant djent switch, regardless of which amp Misha played through.



boost high mids @1,4KHz and remove some low mids around 300Hz to avoid muddy/boomyness. Cut very high frequencies to remove fizzyness @9,3KHz


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## that short guy (Sep 12, 2011)

groph said:


> I'd think something like a Mark IV or Mark V would be what you'd want. Lamb of God has one of the tightest tones out there and they've been using the Mark IV (might have gone to the Mark V by now) for ages. I think they use Seymour Duncan JB pickups or something like a Super Distortion. For pickups you'll probably want something medium - medium high output and bright. DiMarzio Evolution is another good choice.


 


asher said:


> I'm pretty sure that's right on the pickups; they've been on Mark V for a while now. Hell, with the new tubes and better strings and my TS9/EQ my Mark III 112 can get nice 'n tight.


 
Morton use's 59's in both neck and bridge and adler use's jb/59 combo. other than that ya'll got it covered


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## gilsontsang (Sep 12, 2011)

Mark V would sound like what you are looking for.


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## h75119847 (Oct 31, 2012)

also try a mxr micro amp, set the gain to 0, it'll add a lot of articulation to your gain structure. that, combined with a compressor an overdrive and a couple of noise gates will make any mesa amp make you do the djent face

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_...cial+Defects+Fredrik+Thordendal+no+borders.jp


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## RustInPeace (Oct 31, 2012)

I run a bbe green screamer into a decimator into my mark V, and also an mxr 10 band in the loop. The mark has tons of mids already and is super tight, and is very easy to djent with. I sometimes run the preset eq dimed and my mxr 10 band with a slight low boost, small mid cut, and more boost to the mid-highs (1k - 4k) for a really ka-chunk (djent synonym?) cutting kind of tone! Djent isnt really "my" tone though as i like a bit more saturation and boominess, but definitely fun to play with.


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