# Will an 8 string blow my amp?



## BL1Guitar (Jul 15, 2012)

I'll be getting an 8 string Ibanez in the near future, and I'm wondering if it'll have any adverse effects on my Peavey 6505 112, ie blowing the speaker or damaging the amp. I'm asking this because I'm tuning the low string to E, using a heavy string (.070-85). Will the amp be able to handle the low frequencies?


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## MetalSlab (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm no expert - but it has always been my view that you can damage normal guitar cabs with bass freqs, and you are much better off getting a full frequency cab made OR it isn't an ideal solution as the cab will not be perfect in terms of dimensions, but you can possibly drop out whatever the 12 inch speaker in there is and replace with one designed to take lower freqs (manufacturers like Alto, etc). I will see if I can dig up some links for suitable speakers, specs, etc. 

I wouldn't use a bass cab or speaker either as the response across the higher freqs will suffer. 

Another more complicated option is running a HI/LO pass filter and splitting the output across bass and guitar speakers. 

The amp itself should be ok - although you may want to look into getting the EQ section modded for the lower freqs. 

I have always used a Fractal unit through a full range system, so not really an expert on using traditional guitar cabs - I'm sure someone else will chime in here anyway.


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## mustache79 (Jul 15, 2012)

BL1Guitar said:


> I'll be getting an 8 string Ibanez in the near future, and I'm wondering if it'll have any adverse effects on my Peavey 6505 112, ie blowing the speaker or damaging the amp. I'm asking this because I'm tuning the low string to E, using a heavy string (.070-85). Will the amp be able to handle the low frequencies?


 No. Your amp will be fine.


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## rekab (Jul 15, 2012)

mustache79 said:


> No. Your amp will be fine.



Exactly. 
Don't sweat it


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## Chris Migdalski (Jul 15, 2012)

BL1Guitar said:


> I'll be getting an 8 string Ibanez in the near future, and I'm wondering if it'll have any adverse effects on my Peavey 6505 112, ie blowing the speaker or damaging the amp. I'm asking this because I'm tuning the low string to E, using a heavy string (.070-85). Will the amp be able to handle the low frequencies?



if your tuned to E on your 8th string a 74 gauge is the right tension, I dont recommend a 70 at E (too loose and slaps the neck) a 72 is borderline flimsy..

your amp will be fine


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## Wrecklyss (Jul 15, 2012)

Your amp will be fine, but it would be a good idea to use a 90Hz high pass filter on your guitar speakers and get a bass cab for anything lower than that. The low E you want to tune to is about 41.2Hz, which at high volumes or over long periods of time can destroy most guitar speakers which have an effective frequency response of 70-5,500Hz on average. They will play your low E, but at a much reduced volume and a shock to the speaker's suspension.

I'm planning on designing a cab for extended range guitars in the next week or two, built in high pass, 2x12 guitar speakers in a sealed back chamber + 1x15" bass speaker in a ported enclosure tuned to 18Hz (a harmonic of a low B on a 5 string bass). Will be slightly taller than a typical 4x12 guitar cab. If anyone is interested, PM me for details.


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## MetalSlab (Jul 15, 2012)

Wrecklyss said:


> Your amp will be fine, but it would be a good idea to use a 90Hz high pass filter on your guitar speakers and get a bass cab for anything lower than that. The low E you want to tune to is about 41.2Hz, which at high volumes or over long periods of time can destroy most guitar speakers which have an effective frequency response of 70-5,500Hz on average. They will play your low E, but at a much reduced volume and a shock to the speaker's suspension.
> 
> I'm planning on designing a cab for extended range guitars in the next week or two, built in high pass, 2x12 guitar speakers in a sealed back chamber + 1x15" bass speaker in a ported enclosure tuned to 18Hz (a harmonic of a low B on a 5 string bass). Will be slightly taller than a typical 4x12 guitar cab. If anyone is interested, PM me for details.



This was my understanding as well - normal guitar range speakers can be damaged over time at high volumes @ ~40Hz (voice coil overheating, mechanical cone damage). Not sure why some people say that this isn't an issue?

A cab with separate chambers and inbuilt filters would be ideal.


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## Wrecklyss (Jul 15, 2012)

MetalSlab said:


> This was my understanding as well - normal guitar range speakers can be damaged over time at high volumes @ ~40Hz (voice coil overheating, mechanical cone damage). Not sure why some people say that this isn't an issue?
> 
> A cab with separate chambers and inbuilt filters would be ideal.



The issue with guitar speakers is the low Xmax. If you play very low frequencies through one for prolonged periods of time, it will break down the suspension of the speaker, causing sloppiness in a best case and mechanical failure in a worst case scenario. 

Speakers with higher Xmax don't have the tonal characteristics of guitar speakers, or a broad enough frequency response to cover a guitar's full range. A blend of the two will yield the best results.


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## Ishan (Jul 15, 2012)

It's not like any harmful frequencies will ever get to the speaker in the first place, stop being paranoid guys...
Most guitar amps cut a lot of low end from the guitar input anyway, even more with a tube screamer in front.


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## Guamskyy (Jul 15, 2012)

Ishan said:


> It's not like any harmful frequencies will ever get to the speaker in the first place, stop being paranoid guys...
> Most guitar amps cut a lot of low end from the guitar input anyway, even more with a tube screamer in front.



Yep, pretty much no reason to worry. So don't get a bass cabinet, because it'll make your guitar sound like shi'te, and it will not blow your amp. Unless you play ear-bleedingly loud every single day, don't plan on your speakers blowing.


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## MetalSlab (Jul 15, 2012)

I suppose it depends on the application. If you are just jamming occasionally at reasonable volumes and happy to 'flub flub flub' away - it probably won't cause any huge issues. 

You may start to see some amp manufacturers engineering them with EQ and filters designed with ERG / lower freqs and compatibility with guitar cabs in mind, but this is news to me. 

Remind me not to buy a secondhand guitar cab from anyone on this forum though!


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## mishabasi (Jul 15, 2012)

the EQ of guitar pickups are focused in midrange. Even though the pitches are as low as a bass, the actual frequencies are still midrange focused and safe for your amp. Plug in, crank it, and don't worry about it.


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## Ishan (Jul 15, 2012)

MetalSlab said:


> I suppose it depends on the application. If you are just jamming occasionally at reasonable volumes and happy to 'flub flub flub' away - it probably won't cause any huge issues.
> 
> You may start to see some amp manufacturers engineering them with EQ and filters designed with ERG / lower freqs and compatibility with guitar cabs in mind, but this is news to me.
> 
> Remind me not to buy a secondhand guitar cab from anyone on this forum though!



You seem to totally miss the point, 8 strings are just guitars with 2 more low strings, there's nothing magically so ultra powerful it will destroy all amps in its path  you're blabbing about freq compatibility and EQ for ERG is just non sense from an amp design point, because electric guitar amplification is all about the mid range anyway. Being it 6 strings or 27 strings, it changes nothing 
Whatever


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## SirMyghin (Jul 15, 2012)

I have always wondered,

WHERE THE HELL DO PEOPLE GET IDEAS THAT LOW NOTES ARE MAGICALLY GOING TO BLOW UP AMPS/SPEAKERS!? 

I need one of these energy creating machines. IF the amp can't over load the speakers, they aren't really going anywhere. They might not sound good, but they won't blow up. Driving speakers really hard wears out voice coils quicker, but oh well. You lose a whole tonne of headroom with lower frequencies, because lower frequencies take more power (wattage) to generate.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jul 15, 2012)

^^ not to mention the instrument itself is not producing the lower frequencies as strong - case in point - play an E2 on both guitar and a bass. The bass will sound much bassier, but its the same note.


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## xchristopherx (Jul 15, 2012)

I agree here. I have posted this here before, I played a 4 string bass tuned to drop d into a aphex aural exciter or sansamp and an odb3 to VHT 2902 to VHT fat bottom 412. Not only did it sound killer, but the cab and power amp were fine. And that was at an absurd volume, for quite some time. My 8 string in drop E into my orange cabs is cool too.


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## Wrecklyss (Jul 15, 2012)

There's still the issue of trying to make a piece of equipment do something it's not designed to do. The family sedan might be able to pull a boat, but how many times can you get away with it before the car develops a problem? A friend of mine used to bridge a Carvin DCM1000 (700 watts @8 ohms) to his guitar cab rated at 225 watts. It worked for two months, but he finally toasted the speakers.


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## MetalSlab (Jul 15, 2012)

Ishan said:


> You seem to tonally miss the point, 8 strings are just guitars with 2 more low strings, there's nothing magically so ultra powerful it will destroy all amps in its path  you're blabbing about freq compatibility and EQ for ERG is just non sense from an amp design point, because electric guitar amplification is all about the mid range anyway. Being it 6 strings or 27 strings, it changes nothing
> Whatever



I'm not missing any point and I know a fair bit about amp design. I think you are trying to simplify what I am saying.

I don't suggest that an ERG 'will' necessarily damage anything, but I suppose that the responsible answer to a question asked about possible damage is: 'yes, there is a POSSIBILITY that playing low frequencies through a speaker not designed for them can cause damage - especially over time'. 

Regardless of all the stories of 'hey, I played X through Y really loud and nothing bad happened and it sounded killer', the fact remains that bass frequencies CAN damage guitar speakers. I'm not speculating on the likelihood - just saying that it is possible. 

The other thing I was pointing towards which is more off-topic but still relevant was that most consumer grade guitar amps and cabs are engineered around the regular guitar frequencies (midrange if you like) and may not sound optimal on an ERG - EQ sections are just one thing, but this is particularly the case for cabinet and speaker design. This is why a cab with a filter and separate drivers or a full-range speaker will probably sound and perform better. 

Long story short - it will work, but isn't ideal and there is a POSSIBILITY of long-term damage to speakers.


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## Philligan (Jul 15, 2012)

If you don't want your 8 string to sound like a bass on the low strings, it's gonna have to go through a guitar rig.

It might be a bass note but a guitar's low E is mostly overtones and higher frequencies anyway. It's still being run through a guitar amp, not a bass amp.

Lemmy plays JMP heads, that's why his bass sounds like a guitar.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 15, 2012)

Whatever you do, don't hit the brown note through a guitar cab


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## SirMyghin (Jul 16, 2012)

Wrecklyss said:


> There's still the issue of trying to make a piece of equipment do something it's not designed to do. The family sedan might be able to pull a boat, but how many times can you get away with it before the car develops a problem? A friend of mine used to bridge a Carvin DCM1000 (700 watts @8 ohms) to his guitar cab rated at 225 watts. It worked for two months, but he finally toasted the speakers.



That is a completely different problem though, that is speakers ACTUALLY being fed more than they can handle. Yes the EQ's might not line up but the equipment is not in danger otherwise.


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## squid-boy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'll blow your amp.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 17, 2012)

No.


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## leandroab (Jul 17, 2012)

No, it will not.


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## TTWC Ben (Jul 25, 2012)

Would manufacturers actually release products (ERG/Pickups) onto the market that destroyed peoples amps?! NO.


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## USMarine75 (Jul 25, 2012)

You actually stand a very good chance of damaging you speaker... by using it at all. The Peavey combos use Sheffield paper cone speakers which sound like they were treated with Hartley Peavey's urine before shipping. 

IMO... find a deal on a 12" Celestion or Emminence on eBay and replace that shit asap... your tone will improve immensely. You'll prob want to upgrade you amp at some point too. I run my RG2228, droptuned 6's, and Loomis through my 5150 212 combo with Celestion G12k100 speakers and it sounds awesome. FWIW... You can find 5150/6505/JSX heads and combos cheap online...


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## TheEntheogenEgoKiller (Jul 25, 2012)

Is this even a serious question !?!?!?!?


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## Knossos (Jul 25, 2012)

To simplify all this down further, no. 

Guitar pickups already cut SO much of the bass at that pitch (which is why the average eight string sounds like shit) emgs in particular use a very fixed harmonic sound, so sometimes instead of getting the notw you pitch, you'll actually hear something higher up the harmonic series. 

Thats a large part of why Meshuggahs tone is so magical. Pickups that don't have a strict harmonic band to work in, with extended scales to encourage strong low frequencies into good amplification.

As long as you aren't already neglectful of your equipment, no harm done.


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## xenophobe (Oct 30, 2012)

Wrecklyss said:


> I'm planning on designing a cab for extended range guitars in the next week or two, built in high pass, 2x12 guitar speakers in a sealed back chamber + 1x15" bass speaker in a ported enclosure tuned to 18Hz (a harmonic of a low B on a 5 string bass). Will be slightly taller than a typical 4x12 guitar cab. If anyone is interested, PM me for details.



Has this been completed yet? 

Just curious... I'm piecing together a rig for my M8M... so something like this would probably be better than a normal guitar cab.


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## abandonist (Oct 30, 2012)

Just use pa speakers. Done. All ranges covered.

I play all my music through a bass amp/cab with an adjustable tweeter frequency. It's all about finding a good eq spot.

You have a much higher chance of blowing speakers when the ohms are mismatched or the power is over the cab rating. 

Also: Use an actual speaker cable!


Edit: Oh, this is an old thread.


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## xenophobe (Oct 30, 2012)

Uh... not worried about blowing an amp and a PA speaker? Really? lmao.

I'm fairly certain my M8M would shred normal guitar speaker surrounds relatively quickly. I'm not going to risk a nice guitar cab trying. 

And what do you mean by an "actual speaker cable"? I would be using XLR speaker cables just like I do on my bass rig. 

EDIT: I would even use XLR speaker cables for guitar if amps and cabs were wired that way...

>.>


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## abandonist (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm fairly certain you have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm pretty sure there are 10 other things that would destroy your 1x12 before an 8th string tuned down to E.


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## Survivalism (Oct 30, 2012)

MetalSlab said:


> I'm no expert..


 


MetalSlab said:


> I know a fair bit about amp design.


 



OP: Your amp/speaker will be fine. I should know, my shit still works
like the day it was purchased.


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## troyguitar (Oct 30, 2012)

This is what will happen:


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## will_shred (Oct 31, 2012)

Wrecklyss said:


> I'm planning on designing a cab for extended range guitars in the next week or two, built in high pass, 2x12 guitar speakers in a sealed back chamber + 1x15" bass speaker in a ported enclosure tuned to 18Hz (a harmonic of a low B on a 5 string bass). Will be slightly taller than a typical 4x12 guitar cab. If anyone is interested, PM me for details.



I don't even play ERG's and that's a damn good idea. 

also, I know Bongripper tunes down to F and they use Sunn model T's and i don't think they mod the cabs in any way.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

Only if your amp is attractive enough.


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## hairychris (Oct 31, 2012)

TTWC Ben said:


> Would manufacturers actually release products (ERG/Pickups) onto the market that destroyed peoples amps?! NO.



Um, *I* would.... 

Proof that your amp needed to man up.


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## highlordmugfug (Oct 31, 2012)

ITT: mY 8 strang r srs bisnzz, i;tll brek da spekrs cuz iz 2 metulz.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 31, 2012)

Is it 2006 again? 

I've been playing guitars tuned down between G and E for nearly seven years now and haven't "shredded", "blown", "melted", or otherwise damaged a single speaker in any guitar cab I've owned, even at full stage volume.


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## Ishan (Oct 31, 2012)

What's the point of those guitar sub anyway?
There's just no practical use for them as any sound engineer will cut the low end from the guitar amp going to the FOH. Leave the low end to your damn bass player...


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## oniduder (Oct 31, 2012)

i've blown speakers and of course my ears, never blown an amp cause that's retard-O 

good luck and welcome to the forum...


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 31, 2012)

Ishan said:


> What's the point of those guitar sub anyway?
> There's just no practical use for them as any sound engineer will cut the low end from the guitar amp going to the FOH. Leave the low end to your damn bass player...



The only folks I've seen use them in a meaningful way are those playing in electronic-rock/metal bands, bands with only one guitarist and no bassist, and folks going for a real spacey, powerful sound. 

In the context of traditional Rock and Metal guitar I think they're rather pointless. Though, I'm sure there are recordings out there which are properly put together that show that they can be used to the contrary. 

I think how unsuccessful or a product it is, guitar subs, is the best testament to their use in most context.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 31, 2012)

Ishan said:


> What's the point of those guitar sub anyway?
> There's just no practical use for them as any sound engineer will cut the low end from the guitar amp going to the FOH. Leave the low end to your damn bass player...



Agreed, especially for the applications so common for members of this site. The last thing you want when going for a tight low end is a dedicated sub pounding out bass frequencies lol.

...and agreed again. leave the bass to the bassist. I know i hate it when the bassist cranks his mids, stepping all over the mix, 

When i play bass, i love having a nice scooped tone sitting underneath everything. leaves the guitars fully intact.


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## xenophobe (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow, why the hell are you people in an ERG forum anyway? From the sounds of it, some of you shouldn't be playing more than 6 string guitars either because anything more than 6 is unnecessary as well. The closed minded will always be closed minded, IMO.

I have a bass rig for my bass, I have a guitar rig for my guitar. I wouldn't plug my 6 string into my bass rig, nor would I plug my bass into my guitar rig.

My M8M is an extended range instrument, why the hell wouldn't I want an extended range cabinet? Because it doesn't fit into your little box of thoughtfullness? lmao


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 31, 2012)

xenophobe said:


> Wow, why the hell are you people in an ERG forum anyway? From the sounds of it, some of you shouldn't be playing more than 6 string guitars either because anything more than 6 is unnecessary as well. The closed minded will always be closed minded, IMO.
> 
> I have a bass rig for my bass, I have a guitar rig for my guitar. I wouldn't plug my 6 string into my bass rig, nor would I plug my bass into my guitar rig.
> 
> My M8M is an extended range instrument, why the hell wouldn't I want an extended range cabinet? Because it doesn't fit into your little box of thoughtfullness? lmao



I don't get what you're all up in arms about.  

If you want to belt out tons of lows, go for it. Don't expect it to sound particularly good in a modern rock or metal context though, you'll be buying the bass and a nice chunk of the drum kit, which if there's anything to listening to raw tracks has shown, the rhythm section matters. 

What is an "extended range cabinet" exactly? If you're looking for FRFR, then that's a great option, just don't expect it to sound like a guitar cab. 

If the M8M is your first ERG, perhaps you should listen to a few folks who have been playing them almost a decade now before getting butthurt and claiming we just don't get it.


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## abandonist (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok, I'm actually going to try and be helpful. Go look up speaker frequency response and how it correlates to your instrument's notes. Your guitar will not damage a cab's speaker through some witchcraft because it's tuned low. You can play Bass through a guitar cab with no ill effects. I'm not being a dick, but you simply don't understand how any of this works.

That band who helped design your super expensive guitar? They play with guitar rigs.


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## xenophobe (Oct 31, 2012)

As a bassist, playing many shows in either epic metal or technical death, the low end was almost never my frequency. I tuned to cut through the mid-range because trying to cut through the low end would produce mud.

I figure a FR cab would be more suitable since this isn't a guitar or a bass, but a hybrid instrument.

And as for what Meshuggah would do? I don't care. I don't like or dislike them, but what they do isn't what I want to reproduce.

I want a different tone from an instrument that has a unique tone all to itself. That's why I want to try a FR cab with it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 31, 2012)

xenophobe said:


> As a bassist, playing many shows in either epic metal or technical death, the low end was almost never my frequency. I tuned to cut through the mid-range because trying to cut through the low end would produce mud.
> 
> I figure a FR cab would be more suitable since this isn't a guitar or a bass, but a hybrid instrument.
> 
> ...



Wanting a different/unique tone is fine, and I'm all for it. That's what I was looking for when I got into ERGs and ERBs. 

What I have a problem with is the assumption that for some reason, using a standard cab can be harmful to to it. 

As already said, an FR cab isn't more suitable, no more so than any cab really, it's just a different device to use. It would be more suitable, and less suitable, for different styles, which is has been proven by many players on here over the years. 

On a side note, as a former gigging bass player, I never had mud issues tuning really low, playing some pretty heavy music as long as I was using the right gear set up the right way.


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## Survivalism (Oct 31, 2012)

This thread went from "Will an 8 string blow my amp" to "This is my personal preference on how I want my M8M to sound, a guitar designed by 2 guys THAT PLAY LIVE THROUGH MARSHALL 1960 CABINETS." 

Keep your personal preferences on your own fucking thread, 
and answer the OP's question... like 14 other people already have.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Oct 31, 2012)

OP: You will be fine by just plugging the 8 string in a 6150 combo, no worries.

I did manage to blow up a speaker, someone told me that was my A tuned 7string and a whammy pedal 2 octaves down, causing the solid state power amp to clip, and the speaker couldn't deal with the block waves that were produced. [/blah mode]


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## abandonist (Oct 31, 2012)

That's not really how speakers work. I mean, it's possible, but more likely that you just overloaded the power handling of the speaker - or had mismatched ohms. 

In the early days there was no distinction whatsoever between guitar and bass amps. They were just amps. Now they're just designed to favor certain frequencies. It doesn't mean they 'can't handle' others though. It'll just sound 'bad'.


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## rty13ibz98 (Oct 31, 2012)

*Will an 8 string blow my amp?

depends...is this the first date? if so, your 8 is a slut!!!


rich
*


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## Ishan (Nov 1, 2012)




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## xenophobe (Nov 2, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wanting a different/unique tone is fine, and I'm all for it. That's what I was looking for when I got into ERGs and ERBs.
> 
> What I have a problem with is the assumption that for some reason, using a standard cab can be harmful to to it.
> 
> ...




I'm not looking to replicate Meshuggah or any other djent or binary metal tone. I want FR to do something different than every other band on the local scene.

I love SWR, for example, but SWR bass rigs sound like SWR bass rigs. I could never get a tone that didn't immediately scream SWR. Sounded amazing, but no different than most of the other bassists using a similar combination. My GK rig just sucked. When I finally landed with my Ampeg I finally found a sound of my own. 

I couldn't get a tone I liked out of my Bogner Fish + VHT 2150 nearly 20 years ago. Out of a Mesa Dual, I can get almost where I want, but it sounds like typical Mesa fuzz and I would tweak it every time I turned it on, for nearly a year. Probably closer to two, until I sold the fucker. I tried all sorts of preamp 1u rack rigs with various power amps and it was always the same. Line 6 sounds like Line 6. Etc...

As for playing lower-mids on bass... when you have two guitarists playing fast technical junt-junt-weedly-wee, surfing the mids is a lot more fun than ghosting the low end. It also sounded a lot better and was a bit unique. 


And to the other comment, yes you can play guitar on a bass rig. You can probably also haul 1000 lb trailer with a Ferrari. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. Playing a guitar through a bass rig sounds like ass. If ass were a sound I would be happy with, I'd do it. 

I guess I could get an Uberschall, Line 6 or Mesa and sound like every other djent band out there. I don't like djent and that's not what I want. I guess some people just can't understand that.


And yes, I think playing an 8 string on a guitar cab could shorten the lifespan of the speakers. Guitar speakers are not designed to handle the lower frequencies, or at least they weren't. I'm not saying it'll damage them for sure, but it certainly can't be good for them. Bass speaker magnets and coils are beefier than guitar speaker coils and magnets for a reason probably. FWIW, I did blow out a guitar cab with my bass and bass amp when I was younger. I think it lasted about a week, but it was a cheap Crate 4x12. And I never played it anywhere near as loud as I did when I had my guitar amp plugged into it. I was so sad.  


Another side note: It's funny that it's so difficult finding another local 8 stringer with common interests. I know 3 solid drummers who are free, 2 absolutely amazing and one of them has toured quite a bit, all who are open for projects... all ex-bandmates who aren't doing anything at the moment. I can't find another guitarist to write with that is willing to go 8 strings, and I'm not a home recorder person, so that doesn't help either...lol


Oh, and just for those that didn't pay attention. I never said an 8 string would blow an amp. Derp. I only posted in this thread because I was interested in the FR cab that guy was trying to design, which I later found out he couldn't get working right.


Apparently some super mod doesn't like me.  <3


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 2, 2012)

Once again, like a lot of folks here are saying that you're plain ignoring, you're not going to hurt your speakers with your guitar, it's that simple. 

No one is saying that you need to "djent", or that you need to use a certain rig. Just that you were, and are, wrong in assuming that you can damage anything by simply tuning lower. 

Four posts and you still don't get it.  It's okay though, because it's just a little funny at this point.


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## Survivalism (Nov 2, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Once again, like a lot of folks here are saying that you're plain ignoring, you're not going to hurt your speakers with your guitar, it's that simple.
> 
> No one is saying that you need to "djent", or that you need to use a certain rig. Just that you were, and are, wrong in assuming that you can damage anything by simply tuning lower.
> 
> Four posts and you still don't get it.  It's okay though, because it's just a little funny at this point.


 


A fucking MEN.


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## xenophobe (Nov 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Once again, like a lot of folks here are saying that you're plain ignoring, you're not going to hurt your speakers with your guitar, it's that simple.
> 
> Four posts and you still don't get it.  It's okay though, because it's just a little funny at this point.



And it's funny that you don't appear to get my point either. After explaining myself several times in several different ways I give up. lmao


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## xenophobe (Nov 5, 2012)

I know you're not supposed to post emails, but this is a general question I sent to several manufacturers. 

My question:

Hi,

I have an 8 string Ibanez and I was wondering if your speakers would be fine without using a crossover. I'm concerned the extra low frequencies may reduce the lifespan of the speaker at stage volumes. Should I have any concerns?

Regards,
Mike

Response from Celestion:

[FONT=&quot]Hi Mike[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Yes you will be driving the speaker harder and causing the cone to move further than a 6 string. I&#8217;d avoid the &#8216;vintage&#8217; style models and go for the more robust like the Classic Lead 80 or G12K-100 as these will last longer. A closed cabinet is also likely to hold the cones in check better than an open cab. Your speakers won&#8217;t &#8216;break&#8217; immediately but the cones may crease around the edges which will eventually turn into a tear.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doc[/FONT]

Eminince and EV have not yet responded.

So what are all of your qualifications Mr Max, and the rest of you? Degree in electrical or mechanical engineering? Rocket scientist? High school dropout? 

So that's 1 out of 3 that says the speaker surround will end up tearing. I'll post the responses from the other two manufacturer's engineering teams, no matter what they say.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 5, 2012)

xenophobe said:


> So what are all of your qualifications Mr Max, and the rest of you?



Real world experience, and a good amount of it. 

And I didn't exactly see anywhere in that email that stated that lower tunings *will* damage speakers. Read what they said however you want, but "may crease" doesn't mean "will break".


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 5, 2012)

This thread delivers.


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## abandonist (Nov 5, 2012)

How about a degree in the technical aspects of broadcasting and sound? How about working as a DJ and sound technician for years with very high-end setups? How about wiring and designing room systems and acoustics? 

Ever talk to engineers in real life? They deal in tolerances. Not what WILL happen, but what is mathematically possible. Can your 8 string tear your speaker? Sure. So can a ukulele.

"May" /= "Will"

Over time any speaker may fail for any number of reasons. They're organic, fragile things. Your M8M is not some fire-breathing speaker shredder. How about the folks on here with 9 strings? Are they just going through new speakers every month? how about the 8-stringers? None have chimed in about all the equipment they've fucked up with their Hell Axe. You don't seem to fucking get it and I don't understand why you're harping on this.


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## Survivalism (Nov 5, 2012)

abandonist said:


> How about a degree in the technical aspects of broadcasting and sound? How about working as a DJ and sound technician for years with very high-end setups? How about wiring and designing room systems and acoustics?
> 
> Ever talk to engineers in real life? They deal in tolerances. Not what WILL happen, but what is mathematically possible. Can your 8 string tear your speaker? Sure. So can a ukulele.
> 
> ...


 
Sooo much win. 
Before I sold my RGA8, the cab I was/AM STILL USING TODAY
is loaded with 2 - 12" Eminence Swap Thangs and 2 - 12" Eminence
Texas Heat speakers......
Now, playing for 4 or 5 months on the RGA8 throught his cab, it STILL SOUNDS
AS GOOD AS THE DAY I PUT THE SPEAKERS IN.

It's really not rocket science.


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## SirMyghin (Nov 5, 2012)

To make this thread worse, I get awesome tones running a bass through my mesa mark. Seriously, sounds great.

As for qualifications. I am a fucking engineer.


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## Ernesto (Nov 19, 2012)

Logged on for the first time in a looong time to back xenophobe here.

After many years in competition car audio, theater tech, and live sound, as well as being an engineer and inventor, my experience and knowledge leads me to agree with xenophobe. Running low frequencies through a speaker that's optimized for mid and high range, in an open backed cab, is a recipe for speaker failure. The reasons for this have been listed in the thread already. I can't even count how many blown speakers I've seen, repaired, or replaced due to them being run outside of their designed frequency range and due to clipping.

That being said, most guitar amps are voiced in the amp section for mid and high frequencies and most "guitar" players like their tone within that frequency range so that's why so many of you have run ERG's through normal guitar amps and have been pleased with the results.

Not everyone wants to make the same sounds. Charlie Hunter is a good example. His guitar has two separate outputs so the output from the bass strings can go to a bass amp and the higher stuff can go to the guitar rig. He's a pretty smart guy and a hell of a player and I'm pretty sure he's put some thought into his tone.

I want my low E to sound like a bass guitar and the higher stuff to sound like a normal guitar. When I got my 8, I had a crate bx-100 and a crate gt 212. To get any kind of decent full range sound(which admittedly was never awesome with the crates), I ended up sending the guitar signal to both amps, turning the highs down on the bass amp, and the lows down on the guitar amp. Since I don't have a bass player or another guitar player and rely on my rc50 for backing sounds, I need to make sounds that sound good in all frequencies. Due to space concerns, I upgraded to a Roland Cube-60 and with it's closed back design, nicely suspended speaker, and flat, wide range, amp frequency response, I can shake the walls in drop E or screech at the 24th fret on the high e all at equal volume.

If I had more room, I'd be building a full range cab like suggested earlier, or running pa speakers, with a pa amp for power because my guitar, keys, drums, and vocals all need to be amplified as well. The Cube60 is really sounding great for what it is though. 

The answer to the OP's original question is: 
There is a chance, depending on the sounds you want to make, and the volumes that you like to play at, that the lower frequencies that your erg can produce could cause damage to your speaker.

Some of you guys shouldn't be so opinionated and closed minded. We're talking about music after all.


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## MetalSlab (Nov 19, 2012)

mdd0127 said:


> =
> 
> The answer to the OP's original question is:
> There is a chance, depending on the sounds you want to make, and the volumes that you like to play at, that the lower frequencies that your erg can produce could cause damage to your speaker.
> ...



Honestly, I almost gave up on this forum a while back after some of the flippant and close minded remarks in this thread. There are too many variables and it would be wrong to give a definite 'no' answer. Pretty sure I summed this up in post #18. 

At least it is nice to see that there are a few other people who get it.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 19, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> To make this thread worse, I get awesome tones running a bass through my mesa mark. Seriously, sounds great.
> 
> As for qualifications. I am a fucking engineer.





Ditto...


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## brutus627 (Nov 25, 2012)

This dude is just waiting/wanting for someone to tell him to do this bass ext. cab thing so badly...so ill say it!!! Just try it for Christ's sake and have a blast doing it! I've spent years trying to find "my" tone and I finally did by realizing what my role within what music I was making was and honing how to accent my playing style/technique...if you play by yourself/without a bassist I think u find yourself chasing the low freq a lot but when your playing within a band with a bassist you usually immediately dial back your bass or scooped mids and realized how sick it sounds with the bass behind it. To answer the OP and not be off topic I've played 8's live for like 3 years, some tuned to E through v30's, g1275t's, greenbacks, sheffeilds, various eminences and never caused damage to them...if the bass cab does what you want and u like it run it!


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## facepalm66 (Nov 25, 2012)

I wonder how'd it sound if i'd use and 8 string through an analog tube distortion and a bass amp? 
I tried a regular guitar, and it sounded rather nice, really mellow etc., but i only played it in clean tone


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 25, 2012)

What many haven't touched upon here, is that guitar amps usually won't output those really low frequencies at any interesting volumes, and if they do, it'll start clipping in the power amp tubes before it reaches the speakers at substantial volumes anyway.

An 8 string or baritone guitar CAN blow your speakers out... IF you use something like a bass amp head instead of your guitar amp...


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## Rook (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi, degree in electrical and electronic engineering and years of pro sound and guitar amp experience - provided you control an amps's power output such that it doesn't exceed total power rating of an entire speaker array for an extended period it will do no damage. Most of the time 'control' isn't necessary, however one example would be my setup which uses a 1000W amp which I regularly plug into 100-300W cabs (as most 212 and 412 cabs fall into that range). Low frequencies draw more power for a given amplitude than high frequencies, which for people wanting to project those frequencies (such as bass players) often leads to turning low end up.*** Because of the way amps work, even a dual rectifier rated at 100W (which after bias is probably more sensibly rated at 80W btw) can spike well over twice it's output power rating, but it's a spike, no harm done.

Then there's the band pass filtering effects of modern overdrive channels which means that most of the low end you put into the front end probably won't make it far past the input stage anyway, that's how OD channels stay tight and controlled. There's also the bandwidth of the power amp...

It's in a speaker manufacturer's best interest to tell you not to try shit that could in any way break your stuff, because he may not be sure and he doesn't know what you're going to do or how you're going to interpret his response. If you then break your speaker and go back to him saying 'you told me I could do this, I did, and it broke', he knows he's liable.

In conclusion, my answer to the OP question is no, as everyone on this damn board has already said.

***Interestingly, scientific studies such as the Fletcher-Munsen Curves suggest low frequencies need to be a higher SPL than mid and higher frequencies to be perceived as the same volume just perpetuating the pumping of the low end...


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## crankyrayhanky (Nov 25, 2012)

Most Crate stuff will not hold up to an 8


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 25, 2012)

And hey, let's not forget the obvious: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (as Christopher Hitchens put it, although about a different subject), and i have not seen or heard of anything that would suggest that low-tuned instruments would damage a guitar amp. 

I have heard of a guitar AMP that could do that though, and came with a warning about dialing in too much low end if you were using an open back cab, as it might blow the speakers out. That's rare though.

By now, many use 8 strings. Many tune ridiculously low too. I haven't heard any concerns about this issue being raised by anyone with experience of any kind.


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## EOT (Nov 25, 2012)

Well every time I play my 8 through an amp it blows up(speakers too!). That's why I have several amps. I play once or twice a week and just send whatever amp I was playing that day to a tech to get repaired. I have a hard time keeping a consistent tone since I'm always using a different amp. But it's worth it for the BRooTz!








 OK, maybe not.


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## Veldar (Dec 11, 2012)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> leave the bass to the bassist. I know i hate it when the bassist cranks his mids, stepping all over the mix.
> 
> 
> > That's such a guitarist thing to say.


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## kn1feparty (Dec 11, 2012)

Go back and read through this thread from the beginning. Every time xenophobe posts that he owns an M8M, take a shot.


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## LukeNecraG (Dec 12, 2012)

Just to drive the point home, my bands bassist didn't have an amp for almost a year. So for almost a year he ran his bass tuned to drop D through a old Roland Cube 30, cranked up with a lot of low end dialed in. That amp still sounds the same today as when it came out the box. 

So if a small budget amp could handle the full range of a bass, I'm sure any amp should manage what a guitar puts out when tuned down. That's why I'm not stressed for tuning my future 8 to D.


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## MF_Kitten (Dec 12, 2012)

kn1feparty said:


> Go back and read through this thread from the beginning. Every time xenophobe posts that he owns an M8M, take a shot.


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## potatohead (Dec 12, 2012)

It really depends on how slutty your 8 string is.

Edit - Damnit should have read the whole thread


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