# Your thoughts on marijuana



## sakeido (Jul 28, 2008)

Strangely enough, as much as I enjoy smoking pot, every time I do I get mired in a huge internal debate about it. 

It is basically legal up here, sure, but I always wonder how it would reflect on me if other people (parents, coworkers, girls, etc.) knew. I also don't like how its the whole other side of my life that I always keep quiet, and being 22, I feel ridiculous cruising around hiding something like this from people. It feels juvenile and immature to be hiding it, but sometimes it feels that smoking pot is itself even more juvenile and immature and so I just continue as I do, with this guilty feeling hanging over my head all the time.

It just feels so fucked up to be getting blazed with all my old high school friends, and seeing how some of them ended up. One firmly insists that he is stoned for everything - that everything is better stoned, or can be solved by getting stoned. He used to be my best friend, and I'd say he probably still is, but more and more I disagree with his philosophy on things, especially how he insists we do absolutely everything baked, or how everyone should smoke weed. 

While some things are indeed better stoned (IMO) like movies and music, I feel like a huge dumb ass cruising around a movie theater baked. I worry about looking like an idiot pothead (I probably don't) but more than that, I worry about setting a bad example for any of the really small kids who might see me.. although we always try and avoid them by going to the latest shows. Usually at my insistence.. 

A couple others of my old friends didn't graduate from high school for years - as far as I know, one still hasn't, while the other finally did complete his diploma and now is enrolled in post secondary. Still others still live at home (as I do), but have done fuck all with their lives since high school and it has almost been five goddamn years.

So is this what smoking weed all the time is all about? Is this the group of people I am identified with? I'm gainfully employed and have some nice things, sure, but would people write me off as an underachiever just because I blaze on a regular basis? 

I think it stems more from insecurity than anything else, but I really just don't know how weed looks in the big picture anymore. I don't know if this is a conflict stemming from the counter-cultural side of me and the white collar, office slave culture I am growing to be apart of, or what.

Is weed just a normal part of the 21st century life now? Is it even a big deal anymore? How do you guys look at people who smoke pot, and how do you think it looks in the big picture now?


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## auxioluck (Jul 28, 2008)

I used to freak out about smoking pot, even though I only did it about once or twice a year. I used to think I was going to wind up a dipshit loser like my REAL stoner buddies. You know, in moderation, I don't think it's a bad thing. I do it socially, when it's a good time to celebrate, and it gets passed. I don't feel guilty about it anymore; it's just a way to relax and absorb myself in the moment; something I forget to do all the time. I'm 23, I smoke maybe 2-3 times a year, and I don't feel any different. I have no attachments to it, but it is cool when I'm with good friends and celebrating and get a little buzz on top of a buzz to really make it something to remember and be happy about.


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## noodles (Jul 28, 2008)

Marijuana is just another recreational substance, like alcohol. There are responsible ways to handle it, like enjoying some on while sitting around on the weekend, and there are irresponsible ways of handling it, like getting stoned every waking moment. Just like alcohol.

I absolutely despise the fact that it is illegal here. It is the government regulating what you can put in your own body, pure and simple, making it a gross violation of civil rights. What gives the government the right to tell me what someone can do to their own person? What's next? That tattoo is unacceptable, and women have to go out in public with hoods on their faces? Free country, my ass. Legalize it, regulate it, tax the shit out of it, and use all the existing laws that apply to alcohol to enforce responsible use. Substances aren't to blame, people are. I am a proponent of personal responsibility.

If it is legal where you live, then you have nothing to hide. Realize that their are groups that would look down on your for drinking alcohol. Muslims, certain fundamentalist Christians, and some extreme political activist groups all crusade against alcohol. I view marijuana as no different, and according to medical studies, it is actually _less_ harmful to the body, and _less_ likely to hurt other people through reckless and irresponsible use.

Does drinking cause everyone to end up a dipshit alcoholic loser? Hell, I have a couple of friends who are mild recreational smokers, but have sworn off alcohol because of the problems it caused them. You are an adult, why feel ashamed for what you want to do in your free time? I know guys with six figure incomes that smoke pot and have no problem with it. Same with alcohol. I knows guys who cannot hold down jobs, have run ins with the law, and are going nowhere with their lives, because they smoke pot. Same with alcohol. What works for YOU?


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## Matt Crooks (Jul 28, 2008)

I look down at Noodles when we're drinking alcohol.


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## Drew (Jul 28, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> I look down at Noodles when we're drinking alcohol.



Please, we almost see eye to eye, provided we're on barstools.


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## noodles (Jul 28, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> I look down at Noodles when we're drinking alcohol.



That's just because I pass out first.


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## sakeido (Jul 28, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> I look down at Noodles when we're drinking alcohol.





Drew said:


> Please, we almost see eye to eye, provided we're on barstools.





noodles said:


> That's just because I pass out first.





But come on guys, this is the Lounge


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## stuh84 (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't agree with it, but aint too bothered if people do it. My only issue with it, is just like smoking, if someone is doing it in the same room as me, I'd prefer not to be there simply because of the fumes that come off them and it getting on my lungs.

I'm a tee-totaller though, use nothing in life like alcohol, smoking, drugs etc, one of them high on life types. Yep, you can call me a screwed up hippy if you like


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## noodles (Jul 28, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> I don't agree with it, but aint too bothered if people do it. My only issue with it, is just like smoking, if someone is doing it in the same room as me, I'd prefer not to be there simply because of the fumes that come off them and it getting on my lungs.



I agree with this 100%. I wanted to see smoking banned in doors, even when I still smoked. Marijuana should be no different, since the people surrounding you have no choice in the matter. Exceptions could be made, like cigar bars are for tobacco, but for the most part, take it outside to a designated area.


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## BigM555 (Jul 28, 2008)

I basically agree with Noodles except on the "nothing to hide" part.

I don't think there is great reason to feel guilty if you're not a chronic pot head, but you have to realize that there is a stigma attached to it. Many people out there will formulate their opinions about you based on the information that is available to them. If they know you toke it will contribute to their impressions of what kind of person you are. It is very much like having long hair, piercings, tatoos, or just simply "dressing the part".

People judge. It's human to do so. Some of it is justifiable. You mentioned your "loser" friends. That's why the stigma exists.

I think it's best to consider it a "bedroom" activity. In mixed company there is no reason to talk about such things. If you have a thing for peanut butter and farm animals; all the power to ya, but I don't need to hear about it. It's the same with pot.

Don't consider it "hiding" it's just being discrete *and it makes sense*.


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## RgAscendant (Jul 28, 2008)

It's rather hard to come across in my town (well, it's a bitch to find someone who actually has some) recently, so whenever it's available it's nice to be able to chill out and smoke some.

While I do think it's a little against human rights to ban us from having it, I can see why the Government have banned it, but I don't think it's the right reason. While they talk about how 'harmful' it is to the body, I think the main thing they're worried about is how much it would damage the tobacco and alcohol industries. I mean, if a safer and more equally relaxing (not sure if this is the right word for alcohol) substitute came to be legal, I can imagine a lot of people using that instead of the others, or perhaps using all three. But the bullshit we get about it being a life destroyer is absolute fucking bollocks, when two highly addictive substances that are known causes of two types of major cancer are highly available, and have become something of an expected trait of today's society.

Also, I'm not keen on how contradictory Governments are about it either. For example, a country (Russia I think, though I'll have to check it, I could be miles off) made weed illegal, saying that it made users too violent. However, during war time soldiers were banned from it because it made them too mellow and relaxed, and not in the mood to fight. Erm, what?

There are also so many things cannabis is useful for other than smoking, it's quite infuriating to know how childish Governments are being on the topic. But yeah, I'm all for it, but not in excess, more of a treat than a necessity.


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## HammerAndSickle (Jul 28, 2008)

I think it's wrong, personally. I look down on people who do it, because I think it's dumb to _willfully_ impair your thought and judgment processes by imbibing a substance, just for the hell of it.

That's also one of the reasons I'm against drinking and smoking. No good comes of it, and a ton of bad stuff does. I don't like how I feel when I'm drunk. The one time I got high, I woke up the next day feeling guilty because I felt like I didn't have much control over myself.

That said, I don't try to force my opinions on someone else. I think I have enough willpower to resist "peer pressure", so I'm around drinking and smoking sometimes with no problem. The one thing I do, though, is I don't date anyone who smokes or drinks. Especially since I'm 16, and it's illegal to drink here at that age, so most people who drink do it just to be "cool" and "rebellious", which makes them douchebags anyway. It'll be harder to find a girl who doesnt drink when I turn 21, though, so I might have to revise that viewpoint.

Edit: I also agree that it'd be smart to legalize it. One, it becomes safer to use due to regulation of substances, and two, likely with taxes on it it'll become more expensive so dumbass teens don't get a hold of it.


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## CentaurPorn (Jul 28, 2008)

Like some of you said I don't think there is anything wrong with smoking it in moderation. It was a daily thing for me when I was younger but I guess I grew out of it. I smoke a joint maybe once a week at most but don't drink at all. I have seen people do some pretty stupid shit loaded...myself included as I used to be a bit of a booze hound back in the day but I have never woke up the morning after smoking a joint or three and regret it. Look down on me if you will...maybe it is because I smoked a J about an hour or so ago..but I don't give a fuck what you think


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## TemjinStrife (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't mind people who smoke. I don't really intend to do so myself much though, as the smoke really fucks with my lungs, even if it's in the same room.


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## wannabguitarist (Jul 28, 2008)

While I've found I actually enjoyed the few times I've tried I don't do it. I try getting an internship/temp position at big companies every summer so I have to avoid anything that could show up on tests and keep me from getting the job. During school the place I work at could really care less but I don't find it appealing enough to make it a habit or even a monthly thing 

Even though it's legal where you live I think you should still keep it separated from the other aspects of your life because people may still judge no matter how well you have your shit together. You shouldn't compare yourself to your friends that haven't changed from high school. YOU went somewhere, THEY didn't. As long as you can still function in your day to day life and it doesn't damage relationships or opportunities to advance in your career.



noodles said:


> I absolutely despise the fact that it is illegal here. It is the government regulating what you can put in your own body, pure and simple, making it a gross violation of civil rights. What gives the government the right to tell me what someone can do to their own person? What's next? That tattoo is unacceptable, and women have to go out in public with hoods on their faces? Free country, my ass. Legalize it, regulate it, tax the shit out of it, and use all the existing laws that apply to alcohol to enforce responsible use. Substances aren't to blame, people are. I am a proponent of personal responsibility.



While I completely agree with you here (on Marijuna), what about other drugs? Where should the line (if any) be drawn?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 28, 2008)

CentaurPorn said:


> Like some of you said I don't think there is anything wrong with smoking it in moderation. It was a daily thing for me when I was younger but I guess I grew out of it. I smoke a joint maybe once a week at most but don't drink at all. I have seen people do some pretty stupid shit loaded...myself included as I used to be a bit of a booze hound back in the day but I have never woke up the morning after smoking a joint or three and regret it. Look down on me if you will...maybe it is because I smoked a J about an hour or so ago..but I don't give a fuck what you think



I'm telling your woman on you.

I used to smoke it a bit back in high school. Get stoned, go into my homeroom, and chill on the couch we had in there. I just got tired of it, I don't really like the way it makes me feel (stupid, and hard to breath). Most people don't believe me when I tell them I don't do any drugs 

As for the legal part of it, or the moral, I really don't give a fuck. If someone wants to have a good time, let them. I don't even care if someone smokes it in the same room as me, I don't mind the smell, as long as I don't have to go to work, or go see my parents or something smelling like it.


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## UGH (Jul 28, 2008)

While impossible for myself personally, moderation is the key factor in mind altering substances or physical impairment. I can't believe I'm not dead. That aside, the intense feeling of discovery in each initial use of whatever is not a feeling I would trade for anything. Just like the rush of execution when you bust out a new level of ability on teh grip it and rip it machine.


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## HamBungler (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm not an avid pot-smoker, I'll usually smoke it when its around and I never actually buy it myself because its too expensive, but I have nothing against it overall. It depends on the user really, if someone abuses it, they shouldn't do it, just like with alcohol. I smoke weed as well as drop acid from time to time because neither does much to any harm at all in controlled doses. Acid can fuck with your head a bit, but its all over within 12 hours anyway and if you don't like it, stay away from it. The government needs to stop wasting money trying to prevent the use of non-lethal/dangerous drugs as such and instead just try to control the sale of them, its a lot easier to do that at the very least. And with the feeling guilty part, I can feel ya on that. I just try to keep that part separate from my actual life and will only do it around my "churchgoing" friends (people whom I used to party with at my bro's old church) because they are totally unassociated with my main group of buddies for the most part.


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## Luan (Jul 28, 2008)

Great thread, thanks.
I never wanted to try pot, never, but I did.
I didn't felt "bad" about doing it, I didn't had enough curiosity about it or any other drug, I just laughed 5 minutes about something stupid and that's it, never smoked again since.
I have some conflicts with it, I never want to smoke again, and it bothers me for some reason when somebody (or everybody..) smokes in a party or whatever, and then I get out of the place.
I don't like to feel that way, and I don't know why that happens to me, I don't have any clue on what I think about it, it's weird.


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## Aaron (Jul 28, 2008)

Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hopefully this works


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## Seedawakener (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't think I'll ever try it. My fathers brother is probably a bad example but he ended up being a criminal because of drugs and it was pot that started it for him. So thats my only experience with it. I know this is just one case, but still I wouldn't try it.


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## TheHandOfStone (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't have any desire to try weed personally, but it's not the end of the world if other people do it. I used to be really misinformed on this topic (mainly because of all the propaganda floating around out there). The more I learn, the more I see it in a similar light as getting drunk. Which is probably why I'm not personally interested. It's just impossible to argue against it when people mention their personal experiences as well as civil rights. It really makes me resent how governments treat their citizens like children.


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## ohio_eric (Jul 28, 2008)

I have never smoked it and I somehow don't think I ever will. I do not enjoy the company of people high on it. I loathe the smell of it. Despite this I think adults should be allowed to smoke it if they choose. If we are going to allow adults to smoke their lungs black adn drink themsleves stupid then it makes no sense to not let them have a joint. Even more important I don't give a flying fuck what another adult does if they are only endangering themselves. So make it legal and use the tax revenue from it to fund rehab for alcholics and addicts and keep them from overpopulating our prisons.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 28, 2008)

Once in a whiles ok, because too much makes you lazy, and it should be legal if alcohol is.


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## playstopause (Jul 28, 2008)

Great thread.
The many answers are quite interesting to read.



noodles said:


> Substances aren't to blame, people are. I am a proponent of personal responsibility.



Very well said.



> ... according to medical studies, it is actually _less_ harmful to the body, and _less_ likely to hurt other people through reckless and irresponsible use.



Imho, weed is still beeing demonized (some posts in here tend to prove it ) and people in _general_ are beeing hypocrite about it. Alcool is socially accepted while it does more harm. Why?



> What works for YOU?



Exactly.
If something is not for you, then don't do it.
Like me, I hate being on a boat. So I just avoid beeing on a boat. 
Now does that mean being on a boat IS BAD? That would be too easy a conclusion, wouldn't be?

I've been smoking regularely for many years and it has never stopped me from doing anything. I don't smoke a lot, but i smoke regularely. People around me, friends and family, know about it and it's no problem at all. It's quite common around here. Many people I know smoke. (well, Ok, I work in an artistic field, not in finance or something "serious" ). 

I'm not the kind of guy that smokes a blunt and needs to lie on a couch. I work my ass off in life (and i'm well rewarded by my constant efforts), i'm a father of two very young kids... And smoking pot isn't an issue a any time for me or any people around. I'm very functional, though i'll admit i never smoke during daytime. 

So really, I don't care if it fits or not in the "big picture", because it's ok by me. It's up to you to know if it's ok by you. I think you need to make _some_ people understand some of the facts about weed. Until then, at the pace our society is evolving, some discretion is unfortunately required. People need time to get "unshocked".


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## noodles (Jul 28, 2008)

wannabguitarist said:


> While I completely agree with you here (on Marijuna), what about other drugs? Where should the line (if any) be drawn?



Why does a line need to be drawn? Why should the government go around and decide what people are and are not allowed to do to their own person? At one point do we, the people, draw the line on the government?

I am against outlawing things, and for holding people responsible for their actions. PCP didn't make you punch out a car window and break some cop's arm. You unable to control your own actions punched out a car window and broke some cop's arm. You made the decision to take that substance. 17,602 people died in 2006 from drunk driving, but alcohol is legal. According to a UK study, alcohol is the fourth most dangerous substance, behind crack, heroin, and ketamine. We outlawed it, and it gave birth to organized crime.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 28, 2008)

noodles said:


> Why does a line need to be drawn? Why should the government go around and decide what people are and are not allowed to do to their own person? At one point do we, the people, draw the line on the government?
> 
> I am against outlawing things, and for holding people responsible for their actions. PCP didn't make you punch out a car window and break some cop's arm. You unable to control your own actions punched out a car window and broke some cop's arm. You made the decision to take that substance. 17,602 people died in 2006 from drunk driving, but alcohol is legal. According to a UK study, alcohol is the fourth most dangerous substance, behind crack, heroin, and ketamine. We outlawed it, and it gave birth to organized crime.



Yes, but people cant be trusted






stealth waits to get his ass handed to him by noodles


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 28, 2008)

(FYI, I live in the USA)

I smoke weed a few times a year. I feel it should be legal, cause the laws surrounding it's illegality are total garbage. I seldom buy the stuff, nor do I sell it (as not to raise any suspicions), I always enjoy it in the safety of my own home-I'm not stupid enough to go and toke up outside, in bathrooms, etc. I'm not saying that it's not a drug, cause it is. But different substances should be treated differently, it's one thing to smoke a lil' weed here and there, it's a whole different world if your hooked on meth, crack, or heroin. I also believe that we should be able to do what we wish to our bodies, as long as we are not harming others. I find the war on drugs (for the most part) rediculous, over emphasized and wasteful. On a different but realated note I think the drinking age should be 18. At 18 you can vote, join the army and die, but you can't have a beer, which is really, really, REALLY stupid(IMHO).


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## thedownside (Jul 28, 2008)

I dont touch it anymore. now, i used to, allot. but it's been years since i did regularly, and i think it's been almost 4 since i did any at all. same with drinking. i have nothing against either, i just dont wanna do it anymore. 



JJ Rodriguez said:


> Most people don't believe me when I tell them I don't do any drugs



no one ever beleives that i dont some pot or drink alcohol. i guess it's the tattooed, mohawked, in a metal band thing, lol.



stuh84 said:


> ...My only issue with it, is just like smoking, if someone is doing it in the same room as me, I'd prefer not to be there simply because of the fumes that come off them and it getting on my lungs.



I hear ya! i hate that, and i even have friends come over and get pissed if they can't do it in my apartment or car. i dont do it, i dont wanna smell it, smell like it, or have it in my house. i've also had allot of friends constantly trying to get me to do it again. always pushing it in my face. i've done it plenty on my own, if i wanna do it, i will, but these people know me and that i havent in years and still push it. needless to say, i dont really hang with them much anymore.


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## wannabguitarist (Jul 29, 2008)

noodles said:


> Why does a line need to be drawn? Why should the government go around and decide what people are and are not allowed to do to their own person? At one point do we, the people, draw the line on the government?
> 
> I am against outlawing things, and for holding people responsible for their actions. PCP didn't make you punch out a car window and break some cop's arm. You unable to control your own actions punched out a car window and broke some cop's arm. You made the decision to take that substance. 17,602 people died in 2006 from drunk driving, but alcohol is legal. According to a UK study, alcohol is the fourth most dangerous substance, behind crack, heroin, and ketamine. We outlawed it, and it gave birth to organized crime.



I don't know if a line should be drawn. While I am a huge supporter of personal responsibility a small part of me still thinks the government should step in to prevent people from doing certain things that can endanger other people. A person doing PCP puts other people's lives in danger, but so does a person drinking a large amount of alcohol. It's a question I could never answer personally. I do think that the "war on drugs" is a complete joke though.

As for when should the people draw the line on the government? Now, or a few years ago. Pretty much whenever the government starts violating our rights and telling us that it's for "our safety".


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## daybean (Jul 29, 2008)

i think a line should be drawn, but not with pot. other drugs seem to take control over the person. thats why there is no pot whores, just crack whores. 

^ daybean could be wrong.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Jul 29, 2008)

wannabguitarist said:


> While I completely agree with you here (on Marijuna), what about other drugs? Where should the line (if any) be drawn?



I'd usually say meth and similar shite which is almost impossible to use in moderation and will seriously ruin almost everyone's life who uses it... but then again, that might just be regarded as an extended means of natural selection.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 29, 2008)

noodles pretty much hit this one on the head IMO. If you're a successful dude who likes to smoke every once in a while, what is there to be ashamed of? It's just a drug, and from the sounds of it you've been pretty responsible in your use of the drug.

I personally don't like weed and never found it that fun or interesting, but I have zero problems with other people liking it.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 29, 2008)

noodles said:


> Why does a line need to be drawn? Why should the government go around and decide what people are and are not allowed to do to their own person? At one point do we, the people, draw the line on the government?
> 
> I am against outlawing things, and for holding people responsible for their actions. PCP didn't make you punch out a car window and break some cop's arm. You unable to control your own actions punched out a car window and broke some cop's arm. You made the decision to take that substance. 17,602 people died in 2006 from drunk driving, but alcohol is legal. According to a UK study, alcohol is the fourth most dangerous substance, behind crack, heroin, and ketamine. We outlawed it, and it gave birth to organized crime.



To go a bit further on this one, if you're stupid enough to take PCP you're probably not a huge contributer to society in the first place....broad generalization I know, but why would anyone who is EDUCATED on the effects of that drug ever decide to try it, that's just irresponsibility and idiocy.

I think that perhaps there is not enough education on drugs, I'm tired of the "never touch it because it is illegal and will ruin your life! class dismissed" bullshit. They need to tell people the truth about all drugs...


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## arktan (Jul 29, 2008)

Stealthtastic said:


> Yes, but people cant be trusted



exactly... but you attack your own theory:

People can't be trusted so tell me who makes the laws against drugs? 

Or are you trying to say that YOU know what's better and other views from other peolple can't be trusted? Why should anybody trust your oppinion?
It would be the best if that stuff would be legal. Because then there are no PEOPLE to tell what you can or can't do to your body. Then YOU are the only one in charge for what you do and carry the consequences if the shit hits the fan... no people...


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## Thrashmanzac (Jul 29, 2008)

to me it makes more sence than smoking cigarettes 
i mean, cigarettes just give you cancer as far as i can see, but weed can make you relax, make thing better sometimes.
i dont use it alot, just when im with my close mates, and we are shooting some pool and drinking or playing xbox, or just relaxing. its agaisnt the law, but i feel the only reason it is is because the government cant make commissions off it, like they can with cigarettes or poker machines.
i think if you can smoke weed responibly, as with most things, there should not be a problem


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## arktan (Jul 29, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I think that perhaps there is not enough education on drugs, I'm tired of the "never touch it because it is illegal and will ruin your life! class dismissed" bullshit. They need to tell people the truth about all drugs...



You sire have hit the nail on the head. 
Tell a kid that it *must not* touch the hotplate and it will do what? 
Tell the kid why it *should not* touch the hotplate and the kid will do most likely what?


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 29, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I think that perhaps there is not enough education on drugs, I'm tired of the "never touch it because it is illegal and will ruin your life! class dismissed" bullshit. They need to tell people the truth about all drugs...


 
Which is why Erowid.com exists.


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## Jachop (Jul 29, 2008)

I think pot is as ok as alcohol is. IMO, you could get addicted to anything - the strange thing is that drinking and smoking is legal but getting stoned isn't.


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## Senensis (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't usually post here, but since I have somewhat of an atypical experience with this, I thought I could share my "2cp".

I smoke pot, from times to times, used to do it far to often for like a year. However, and all modesty aside, it don't feel it hindered my studies, as I am currently finishing my PhD after graduating from one of the highest rep school in France. However, people I sometime meet look down on me when they hear I smoke pot, which is laughable because they often find the courage to say it when they are drunk.

Beside the overly influencual media propaganda (especially in France, the "wine country") people still see marijuana as a crime related drug leading to which is commonly known as "hard drugs" - which is totally stupid imo. Anyone who has studied a bit of pharmaceutics know what's up in your body with most of the drugs, and really, if more people knew that, alcohol would be considered differently, let alone cigarette smoking.

Well, I said I had an atypical experience with this. In fact, I used to live in the Netherlands - where marijuana is legal, and sold in special places called "Coffee shops". There, pot is considered a distraction. On the same level as alcohol. It's fairly common to see people in suits and white collars, 6pm, smoking a joint right after they get out of work while reading the Financial Times in those Coffee Shop. It's legal, taxed, the quality is heavily controled, and the dutch police has a VERY hard approach on cocaine / heroin.

In France, it's illegal. This results in poor quality, fairly high prices, and guess what, a higher crime rate associated to it. All in all, people see smoking pot as being associated with illegal undergroung activities. Still, there is a higher percentage of people smoking marijuana in France than in the NL, and since it's illegal selling it, most dealers also sale harder drugs. See the pattern ?

And last but not least, being drunk can cause an axcess of violence, passing out, and can lead to death by overdose. I have yet to hear anything likely with pot (ok, puking perhaps )

All in all, I have difficulties understanding why alcohol and cigarettes are allowed, yet pot is illegal.

And to answer the initial question, my view is this : people close to me know what I do (be it friends, coworkers, family), and are fine with it because they know I am responsible doing it. If they think they can look down on me because of this, they are not worth the hassle.


Addendum : I just saw the comment about "educating people". I am all for it, but that would result in a huge increase of mushrooms / weed use, and a probable decrease of cigarette / alcohol sales. And contradict everything most governements have been communicating on for the last century + piss off every tobacco / alcohol company, which are known to have at the very least influencial lobbies.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jul 29, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> I have never smoked it and I somehow don't think I ever will. I do not enjoy the company of people high on it. I loathe the smell of it. Despite this I think adults should be allowed to smoke it if they choose. If we are going to allow adults to smoke their lungs black adn drink themsleves stupid then it makes no sense to not let them have a joint. Even more important I don't give a flying fuck what another adult does if they are only endangering themselves. So make it legal and use the tax revenue from it to fund rehab for alcholics and addicts and keep them from overpopulating our prisons.



these are my thoughts almost exactly


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## noodles (Jul 29, 2008)

wannabguitarist said:


> I don't know if a line should be drawn. While I am a huge supporter of personal responsibility a small part of me still thinks the government should step in to prevent people from doing certain things that can endanger other people. A person doing PCP puts other people's lives in danger, but so does a person drinking a large amount of alcohol. It's a question I could never answer personally. I do think that the "war on drugs" is a complete joke though.



Like you said, you can get drunk and do things that hurt other people. What you do to hurt someone else is the crime, not the drinking of alcohol. Declaring substances illegal is a concept called "victimless crime", and it does nothing to actually solve the problem. I don't care if you punch that cop while sober or completely fucked up on a one or more substances, assault is assault, pure and simple.

Currently, we have a huge problem with gang and organized criminal activity, and it almost always centers around drug manufacturing, trafficking, and distribution. If drugs were not illegal, the the gangs and criminal organizations would have no way to fund themselves. Case in point: the Prohibition led to the creation of the mob, and when alcohol became legal again, they moved onto the drug trade to replace lost revenue. In this case, the law is the problem.

People who become hopeless addicted to a substance have it in their genetic makeup, and/or problems that occurred in childhood (nature/nurture). If you eliminate their drug of choice, they are simply going to find something to replace it. These people are sick. They have problems. Prosecuting sick people is not the way to make them better, and outlawing the enabling substance will not solve the problem. If the law is ineffective, then why keep it in the books?

The real reason drugs are still illegal is because the war is self-perpetuating. The DEA and local police precincts are permitted to auction off assets gained from seizure to supplement their budgets. Suddenly, law enforcement is a profit center, and like any profit center, they will aggressively pursue the bottom line. No one has the balls to suggest a repealing of these laws, since it means the elimination of thousands of federal employees, a federal department, and revenue generation for local law enforcement. No one wants to put that many people out of work, and a simple "drugs are bad" and egg/fying pan argument is effective with well over half the population. No one wants to seem "soft" on drugs, so those who disagree with the laws by in large keep their mouths shut. Vocal critics are labeled junkies and burnouts, and rigorously investigated. It is not uncommon for the police to infiltrate public protests, stir up trouble, and then slip away when the SWAT guys show up to crack heads. The monster feeds itself.


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## jymellis (Jul 29, 2008)

personally love the stuff! will till the day i die. im 75% native american and love to smokum peace pipe!


jym


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## daybean (Jul 29, 2008)

jymellis said:


> personally love the stuff! will till the day i die. im 75% native american and love to smokum peace pipe!
> 
> 
> jym



ah, than you can get peyote legaly. that stuff grows like wildfire near my dads ranch. tried it more than once and its not as trippy as some people describe. more a mellow and peaceful high. im off topic, just giving a little opinion on illegal drugs that the government puts a law on.


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## jymellis (Jul 29, 2008)

daybean said:


> ah, than you can get peyote legaly. that stuff grows like wildfire near my dads ranch. tried it more than once and its not as trippy as some people describe. more a mellow and peaceful high. im off topic, just giving a little opinion on illegal drugs that the government puts a law on.



i can grow the cactus legally, carry it legally, cant buy or sell. if im in public actin crazy on it i can still get public intox.


jym


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## daybean (Jul 29, 2008)

jymellis said:


> i can grow the cactus legally, carry it legally, cant buy or sell. if im in public actin crazy on it i can still get public intox.
> 
> 
> jym




i use to have some buttons growing around my house and one day i saw the dog eating them. ......
also you cant buy it? ive heard and seen alot of native americans come down near the ranch to experience the peyote. and there was a guy with a huge sign that said "PEYOTE FOR SALE" for many years. i thought you could purchace the cactus if you were like 3/4 native american and up.


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## ZeroSignal (Jul 29, 2008)

daybean said:


> i use to have some buttons growing around my house and one day i saw the dog eating them. ......
> also you cant buy it? ive heard and seen alot of native americans come down near the ranch to experience the peyote. and there was a guy with a huge sign that said "PEYOTE FOR SALE" for many years. i thought you could purchace the cactus if you were like 3/4 native american and up.



Dude, what? You have different laws for different ethnic groups? What the hell...?


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## M3RC1L3SS (Jul 29, 2008)

I love smoking. I just recently quit smoking cigarettes, which was the hardest thing to do for me... but I still smoke weed everyday or so. What are your guys thoughts on psilocybin? I love it. I only eat shrooms about once or two times a month when they are in season, but it is an amazing experience.


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## Jachop (Jul 29, 2008)

ZeroSignal said:


> Dude, what? You have different laws for different ethnic groups? What the hell...?



My reaction exactly! What the flying fuck?!


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## ShawnFjellstad (Jul 29, 2008)

i completely agree with everything noodles said about this topic.

/thread


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jul 29, 2008)

ZeroSignal said:


> Dude, what? You have different laws for different ethnic groups? What the hell...?



i think it's more of a religious thing.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 29, 2008)

I can't even believe we have this debate in America.

Here's a little refresher to remind people how successful we are at controlling substances.

Prohibition in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JBroll (Jul 29, 2008)

noodles said:


> Why does a line need to be drawn? Why should the government go around and decide what people are and are not allowed to do to their own person? At one point do we, the people, draw the line on the government?
> 
> I am against outlawing things, and for holding people responsible for their actions. PCP didn't make you punch out a car window and break some cop's arm. You unable to control your own actions punched out a car window and broke some cop's arm. You made the decision to take that substance. 17,602 people died in 2006 from drunk driving, but alcohol is legal. According to a UK study, alcohol is the fourth most dangerous substance, behind crack, heroin, and ketamine. We outlawed it, and it gave birth to organized crime.



This is win. 

I have no desire to use it, but I'm fully in favor of legalizing it - +1 for more responsibility and less nanny-state bullshit.

Jeff


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## daybean (Jul 30, 2008)

ZeroSignal said:


> Dude, what? You have different laws for different ethnic groups? What the hell...?



yeah, i also love the fact that it is called "the land of the free".  but still i love my country, although some fucted up shit.


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## daybean (Jul 30, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> i think it's more of a religious thing.




yeah, but still.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 30, 2008)

Blaze up, it's your right as a human being.


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## JBroll (Jul 30, 2008)

One thing that gets on my nerves is that hand-rolled cigarettes are always arousing suspicion. Look, fuckers, if it's well-enough-rolled to look like something you'd buy at a store, smells like tobacco, and the smoker, whose eyes are not red or dilated, can tell you exactly what blend is being smoked and produce a bag with more of said mixture in it, it's probably not pot. I guess some people think that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck, and smells like cooked duck when it's set on fire, then it could be a gigantic brick of weed, but I've never been able to figure out why.

Jef


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## Xaios (Jul 30, 2008)

I guess it's time for me to chime in.

My feelings on the issue of the legality of marijuana are mixed. I've known people who can use weed utterly and completely responsibly. I've also known people for whom weed was the gateway to a whole world of pain. Case in point, in my first real band, we had another guitarist, and he was fantastic. Then, a few months after we started this band, he started smoking pot. His attitude toward practice changed, it started to show up in his appearance (he turned into a slob) and his academics. In under a year from being completely clean, he was addicted to cocaine, for which he went into rehab. He was 15 years old. He got cleaned up, and now he's a teetotaler, as well as a productive member of society. Literally the ONLY thing in his life that changed things was that he started smoking pot, those were the words from his mouth after he got clean. No emotional stress at home, nothing like that.

Obviously, any laws that were in place didn't help him because he ignored them anyway, but that doesn't make those laws wrong in their essence, and for some people those laws DO work. There are some people who just can't be trusted to take care of themselves, and I don't believe that letting themselves self-destruct while we stand idly by is the right answer. Voluntary rehab works for some, but some need more direct intervention. It's unfortunate that more reasonable, responsible people may have to pay a price of small liberties, but reasonable people should realize that in giving up something like that up, they can contribute to the greater good of society.

As far as my personal feelings on the drug itself, for my own purposes, I'm against using anything for the purpose of altering my perception of reality. If I need to take something like morphine because I'm in intense pain, that's a different story, because getting high isn't my reason for using it. Some people do smoke weed for pain relief legitimately, and I do not judge them for it. Also, I hate the smell of weed, and I don't enjoy the company of people who are high.

My biggest issue with weed, however, is how it kills ambition. While this is not true for everyone, a weed makes a LOT of people utterly and completely lazy. You know the kind, the ones who sit at home, toke and play their Xbox all day, day after day. Weed renders people apathetic to the world around them, and keeps them from realizing their potential as productive beings. This is something that should be quelled.



JBroll said:


> One thing that gets on my nerves is that hand-rolled cigarettes are always arousing suspicion. Look, fuckers, if it's well-enough-rolled to look like something you'd buy at a store, smells like tobacco, and the smoker, whose eyes are not red or dilated, can tell you exactly what blend is being smoked and produce a bag with more of said mixture in it, it's probably not pot. I guess some people think that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck, and smells like cooked duck when it's set on fire, then it could be a gigantic brick of weed, but I've never been able to figure out why.
> 
> Jef



Let's face it, the image of any kind of hand-rolled herbs is just plain more associated with weed than it is tobacco. Same as with pipes. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is. If I see someone on the street with a syringe in his arm, the first thing I'm liable to think is "hard drugs," even though it's entirely possible that he might be taking something else, who knows?

But I have to say, I can't remember the last time I saw someone smoking something hand rolled that was just a cigarette.


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## kristallin (Jul 30, 2008)

There's only one reason why I don't smoke pot, and that is that the smell makes me nauseous. I smell it, I have to leave, otherwise I'm vomiting on your carpets.


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## Leon (Jul 30, 2008)

i have no time and no desire for it.


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## Michael (Jul 30, 2008)

I think it's disgusting.  I don't care who does it, the idea of it just pisses me off.


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## playstopause (Jul 30, 2008)

Michael said:


> I think it's disgusting.  I don't care who does it, the idea of it just pisses me off.



What are the reasons behind you thinking this? Care to elaborate a bit?


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## Michael (Jul 30, 2008)

I've seen what it can do to people, and I don't understand why anyone would put them selfs through that, or risk going through what it can do to you. I don't think less of people who do it, but I think it's kinda sad that they can't find other ways of having fun/relaxing.


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## loktide (Jul 30, 2008)

i love the fact marijuana allows you to focus on music and art from and pay attention to it in a different way, you would normaly do. It's almost like a "sensonry enhancer", if that makes any sense.

on the other hand, i hate the fact i easily get carried away by smoking all the time and not just "occasionally". It makes me lazy, i eat all the time, and i can't focus for doing productive things. Therefore, i try to restrict my consume.

it also is completely incompatible for me while doing work that requires a lot of thinking and concentration, since it significantly reduces my ability to concentrate and focus on things, even at the next day. Therefore, i find myself smoking almost exclusively when i'm on holidays, or on weekends.


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## FYP666 (Jul 30, 2008)

As long as it's not too expensive, i'm ok with it 

No seriously, i'm not bothered if someone i know smokes pot, but it's just not my thing


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## noodles (Jul 30, 2008)

Xaios said:


> My feelings on the issue of the legality of alcohol are mixed. I've known people who can use alcohol utterly and completely responsibly. I've also known people for whom weed was the gateway to a whole world of pain. Case in point, in my first real band, we had another guitarist, and he was fantastic. Then, a few months after we started this band, he started drinking alcohol. His attitude toward practice changed, it started to show up in his appearance (he turned into a slob) and his academics. In under a year from being completely clean, he was addicted to cocaine, for which he went into rehab. He was 15 years old. He got cleaned up, and now he's a teetotaler, as well as a productive member of society. Literally the ONLY thing in his life that changed things was that he started drinking alcohol, those were the words from his mouth after he got clean. No emotional stress at home, nothing like that.



Works that way, too. So, why is alcohol legal?



> Obviously, any laws that were in place didn't help him because he ignored them anyway, but that doesn't make those laws wrong in their essence, and for some people those laws DO work. There are some people who just can't be trusted to take care of themselves, and I don't believe that letting themselves self-destruct while we stand idly by is the right answer. Voluntary rehab works for some, but some need more direct intervention. It's unfortunate that more reasonable, responsible people may have to pay a price of small liberties, but reasonable people should realize that in giving up something like that up, they can contribute to the greater good of society.



Why should I have to sacrifice my rights because someone else cannot get a handle on themselves? Sorry, but that is the most ridiculous reason for a law I have ever heard. Pay a small price in liberties? "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."



> My biggest issue with weed, however, is how it kills ambition. While this is not true for everyone, a weed makes a LOT of people utterly and completely lazy. You know the kind, the ones who sit at home, toke and play their Xbox all day, day after day. Weed renders people apathetic to the world around them, and keeps them from realizing their potential as productive beings. This is something that should be quelled.



Why does this need to be "quelled"? If that is what an adult decides to do with their lives, then who are you to tell him otherwise? Don't confuse morality (how someone chooses to live their life) with legality (laws are to protect your rights). The lazy guy who sits at home, smokes, and plays XBox is not infringing upon your rights. Now, if you argument is that you don't want your tax dollars supporting a guy like that, then that is more of a matter of welfare reform.



> Let's face it, the image of any kind of hand-rolled herbs is just plain more associated with weed than it is tobacco. Same as with pipes. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is. If I see someone on the street with a syringe in his arm, the first thing I'm liable to think is "hard drugs," even though it's entirely possible that he might be taking something else, who knows?











> But I have to say, I can't remember the last time I saw someone smoking something hand rolled that was just a cigarette.



Not too many people do it anymore, but I think people should be free from harassment by overzealous cops and morality crusaders who are out to save people from themselves. I don't think it is the function of the government to protect you from yourself.


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## noodles (Jul 30, 2008)

loktide said:


> i love the fact marijuana allows you to focus on music and art from and pay attention to it in a different way, you would normaly do. It's almost like a "sensonry enhancer", if that makes any sense.
> 
> on the other hand, i hate the fact i easily get carried away by smoking all the time and not just "occasionally". It makes me lazy, i eat all the time, and i can't focus for doing productive things. Therefore, i try to restrict my consume.
> 
> it also is completely incompatible for me while doing work that requires a lot of thinking and concentration, since it significantly reduces my ability to concentrate and focus on things, even at the next day. Therefore, i find myself smoking almost exclusively when i'm on holidays, or on weekends.



Personal restraint and responsibility FTW. All those reasons you listed are also why I do not drink alcohol all the time, or drink before/during work.


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## thedownside (Jul 30, 2008)

loktide said:


> ...It makes me lazy, i eat all the time, and i can't focus for doing productive things....



haha, i must be permanantly high, i do all that as it is and i havent touched the stuff in years


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## BigM555 (Jul 30, 2008)

Xaios,

Your post is well articulated and based on personal (though limited) experience. Your friend seems to reinforce the concept of pot as a "gateway" drug but I have a hard time with that. I have many many friends that have indulged for nearly 30 years. Some dabbled in harder drugs in their youth but all of them now express no desire what so ever to move beyond pot.

The fact that your friend was 15 when he hit rehab would imply that he was not sufficiently mature enough to be dabbling in mind altering substances in the first place. There are reasons that certain (some legal) "privileges" are reserved for those who have (hopefully) surpassed the primary development years.

Nearly all of the apathy and characteristics associated with pot that you mention are also true of *beer*.

..and not to detract from the rest of your well written post but this statement;



Xaios said:


> It's unfortunate that more reasonable, responsible people may have to pay a price of small liberties, but reasonable people should realize that in giving up something like that up, they can contribute to the greater good of society.



.....my first impulse is 

I get what you're saying but the fact that some people can't exercise responsibility is no reason to take liberties away from others. It's in fact all the more reason to hold them responsible.

Maybe everyone should stop having children because pedo's can't control their urges. 

Yeah, that'll work. 

We no longer tolerate the argument from drunks saying "I don't remember what I was doing. I wasn't in control".

They made the choice to get drunk/stoned/whatever so it is their charge to act responsibly once they are inebriated. If they can't do that then they should abstain.

Anyway, good post but I can't agree with the concept of everyone else having to pay the price for those that fail to act responsibly.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

noodles said:


> Personal restraint and responsibility FTW. All those reasons you listed are also why I do not drink alcohol all the time, or drink before/during work.



Fuck knows there's days I'd like to


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## noodles (Jul 30, 2008)

BigM555 said:


> The fact that your friend was 15 when he hit rehab would imply that he was not sufficiently mature enough to be dabbling in mind altering substances in the first place. There are reasons that certain (some legal) "privileges" are reserved for those who have (hopefully) surpassed the primary development years.



You brought up a very good point that I totally glossed over. I am absolutely in support of age restrictions on all recreational substances, just like there already are on cigarettes and alcohol, for this very reason. Not only do younger persons (in general) lack the judgment required to partake of drugs and alcohol, but there a literally truckloads of studies that link damages to a developing body to even mild use. I definitely can draw a line between personal liberty and protecting our children from themselves, bad parents, and unscrupulous adults.


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## Matt Crooks (Jul 30, 2008)

noodles said:


> Not too many people do it anymore, but I think people should be free from harassment by overzealous cops and morality crusaders who are out to save people from themselves. I don't think it is the function of the government to protect you from yourself.



The bassist for Pharaoh rolls his own tobacco cigarettes. I've never seen anyone harass him about it in public, though I am sure it happens.


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## jymellis (Jul 30, 2008)

bout to smoke some more rite now lol. im an all day, everyday smoker. i think this time it may have been the power of suggestion. didnt really want to smoke till i hit new threads and this one popped up again.

heres a picture of one of my radio controlled drifter parts and tool box. can you find the contraband?









jym


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## Carrion (Jul 30, 2008)

Pooched bowl and bullet/onehitter in first slot of the tray?


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## jymellis (Jul 30, 2008)

Carrion said:


> Pooched bowl and bullet/onehitter in first slot of the tray?



the bowl is attached to the chamber (what you thought was the bullet). one more thing in the pic. great eye!


jym


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## Xaios (Jul 30, 2008)

noodles said:


> Works that way, too. So, why is alcohol legal?


Because the system is still broken. I don't like the concept of alcohol being legal anymore than that of marijuana. The problem is that no matter how we choose to approach alcohol in terms of the law, people will still abuse it. 



noodles said:


> Why should I have to sacrifice my rights because someone else cannot get a handle on themselves? Sorry, but that is the most ridiculous reason for a law I have ever heard. Pay a small price in liberties? "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."


To see beyond the confines of your own borders, for the good of society. I guess if that makes me a morality crusader, then so be it.



noodles said:


> Why does this need to be "quelled"? If that is what an adult decides to do with their lives, then who are you to tell him otherwise? Don't confuse morality (how someone chooses to live their life) with legality (laws are to protect your rights). The lazy guy who sits at home, smokes, and plays XBox is not infringing upon your rights. Now, if you argument is that you don't want your tax dollars supporting a guy like that, then that is more of a matter of welfare reform.


 If someone has Alzheimers or some kind of debilitating condition, people have no problem putting them up in a home for people with special needs to help them. They're not infringing on anyone's rights with their condition, but in Western society, we do this simply because it's right. It's true that in these circumstances, these people can't properly think for themselves. Really though, the question must be raised, is a chronic pothead who sits at home and wastes away cogent enough to think for themselves effectively? Frankly, I don't believe so.



noodles said:


> Not too many people do it anymore, but I think people should be free from harassment by overzealous cops and morality crusaders who are out to save people from themselves. I don't think it is the function of the government to protect you from yourself.


Then we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## noodles (Jul 30, 2008)

Xaios said:


> Because the system is still broken. I don't like the concept of alcohol being legal anymore than that of marijuana. The problem is that no matter how we choose to approach alcohol in terms of the law, people will still abuse it.



Alcohol being illegal caused more problems than it solved. What is the lesser of two evils: the chance that more addicts will surface, or organized crime?



> To see beyond the confines of your own borders, for the good of society. I guess if that makes me a morality crusader, then so be it.



Well, that really depends on who is envisioning the concepts for the good of society, now doesn't it? Hitler thought he was doing a whole lot of good for society.



> If someone has Alzheimers or some kind of debilitating condition, people have no problem putting them up in a home for people with special needs to help them. They're not infringing on anyone's rights with their condition, but in Western society, we do this simply because it's right. It's true that in these circumstances, these people can't properly think for themselves. Really though, the question must be raised, is a chronic pothead who sits at home and wastes away cogent enough to think for themselves effectively? Frankly, I don't believe so.



Are you really comparing a genetic medical condition to drug addiction? One is a malady that inflicts the elderly, and the other is a result of making a conscious choice to begin taking a substance.

Why do you want to strip free will away from people?



> Then we'll have to agree to disagree.



Yes, we do, because what you are considering flies right in the face of all the principals that our country was founded upon. This is a dangerous line of thinking that leads to a snowball effect. First, drugs and alcohol. Next, music, art, and literature that is identified as "not constructive to a productive society". The next thing you know, we're rounding up all the brown skinned guys in camps.

Christ turned water into wine. Wine is alcohol. All Christians must be punished for the good of society. See how easy it is to turn something like that around?


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## playstopause (Jul 30, 2008)

Michael said:


> I've seen what it can do to people, and I don't understand why anyone would put them selfs through that, or risk going through what it can do to you. I don't think less of people who do it, but I think it's kinda sad that they can't find other ways of having fun/relaxing.



I think I understand, but I want to _really_ understand, since to me, your opinion sounds like the perfect example of "demonizing" something we don't really know about. Imho, too many clichés and misinformations are circulating around when it comes to pot. To me, your answer sounds like you're talking about crack. 

And it's not to be on your case, it's all for the sake of the conversation that's goin' on in this thread.  

So, i'm quite curious to know, based on your answer :

- What do you think people are putting themselves trough when smoking pot? What's beeing so bad? What are the risks of "what it can do to you" are you talking about?

- What do you think it can do to you?

- And more importantly : Have you ever tried it or you only witnessed what it does trough others? 



loktide said:


> It's almost like a "sensonry enhancer", if that makes any sense.



Totally.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

Isn't it obvious? It turns you into this guy:


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

Or this guy:


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## noodles (Jul 30, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


>



"I need shampoo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!"


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

noodles said:


> "I need shampoo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!"


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## playstopause (Jul 30, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Isn't it obvious? It turns you into this guy:



Well, maybe it turned YOU into this.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Well, maybe it turned YOU into this.



What you talking about? I don't smoke pot


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## playstopause (Jul 30, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> What you talking about? I don't smoke pot



Turn*ed*.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 30, 2008)

I abandoned the wicked ways of the marijuana, I'm a saved person. 

Honestly, I think I'm somewhat allergic to it. I had difficulty breathing when I got high, and it took me absolutely nothing to get baked. I'm the same with booze though, I get sick pretty much every time I get more than buzzed, and it takes me hardly any to get there. Sometimes I wish I could enjoy stuff, might make me more social  I can have a beer or 2, but I can't really go out and get too fucked up. Well, I can, but it's just not a good time after about 10 minutes of me being more than pretty buzzed


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## Ze Kink (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with noodles 100% on this.

I don't smoke it that often myself (about once in 2 or 3 months), because it often makes me feel uneasy and nauseous. Still, listening to music etc. is so enjoyable when high, I'm willing to take the risk of getting a bad high.

I have friends who have a "problem" with it, but I'm more concerned with the fact that they often have to get it from "real criminal" dealers, because it is illegal here, and from what I've heard, growing it is highly risky and nearly everyone eventually gets caught from doing it. None of my friends who smoke pot have ever considered using hard drugs, and I don't believe in the gateway theory. Yes, some hard drug users may have started with pot, but they could've started with pretty much anything else as well, such as using medicine with alcohol etc.

And with the "problems" I mean that they smoke almost daily, and that means they have to spend a lot of money on pot. Also, sometimes it seems that they can't have fun without pot, but I'm sure it just seems like that and isn't really true. One of my friends has already "kicked" his "addiction", and only smokes about once a week or less, and I'm sure many others will eventually do it too.

But the thing that annoys me the most about pot is the fact that random strangers always ask if I could sell them joints, because I have dreadlocks  we don't have any problems with rolling your own tobacco here, it's actually almost as common as buying ordinary packs of cigarettes.


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## HamBungler (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm also in full agreement with Noodles. An individual needs to take responsibility for his/her actions, plain and simple. If you're going to smoke pot, smoke it responsibly or face consequences at your own risk. I've been smoking for two years and it has NEVER had an adverse effect on my life. Have I seen others get drawn into doing more, harder drugs? Yes, but it wasn't because of weed, it was because they thought it would be "cool", another thing that would be great if drugs were legalized, it wouldn't be "cool" anymore because it isn't daring or illegal. My main problem with pot is people who smoke it way too often, in which case it usually does become a problem because they're high all the time. That Amotivational Syndrome is bullshit though, a lot of the time big-time pot smokers don't know the facts about pot themselves and become lazy simply because they think they are supposed to. Actually, in controlled, regular doses pot is actually quite good for you, even going so far as to slightly help prevent cancer because THC attaches to and takes out carcinogens, and helps relieve stress which can cause a huge array of health problems. Before I even tried pot I did a lot of research for myself so I could learn the facts, and going into it knowing them there is a greater chance you can use it to benefit instead of harm yourself. That's my two cents.


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## Brendan G (Jul 30, 2008)

HamBungler said:


> I'm also in full agreement with Noodles. An individual needs to take responsibility for his/her actions, plain and simple. If you're going to smoke pot, smoke it responsibly or face consequences at your own risk. I've been smoking for two years and it has NEVER had an adverse effect on my life. Have I seen others get drawn into doing more, harder drugs? Yes, but it wasn't because of weed, it was because they thought it would be "cool", another thing that would be great if drugs were legalized, it wouldn't be "cool" anymore because it isn't daring or illegal. My main problem with pot is people who smoke it way too often, in which case it usually does become a problem because they're high all the time. That Amotivational Syndrome is bullshit though, a lot of the time big-time pot smokers don't know the facts about pot themselves and become lazy simply because they think they are supposed to. Actually, in controlled, regular doses pot is actually quite good for you, even going so far as to slightly help prevent cancer because THC attaches to and takes out carcinogens, and helps relieve stress which can cause a huge array of health problems. Before I even tried pot I did a lot of research for myself so I could learn the facts, and going into it knowing them there is a greater chance you can use it to benefit instead of harm yourself. That's my two cents.


Hooray for knowledge! I agree with just about everyone else in this thread, I'm for legalizing it, though I don't do it myself, it seems to have quite a few benefits.


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## budda (Jul 30, 2008)

what are my thoughts on pot?

well, one of my best friends growing up is the biggest pothead i know. he's also very smart, and can function quite well in a number of ways when he's sober. the thing is, he doesnt make very good choices sometimes, and getting baked his is way of escaping. I cut him some slack when his girlfriend of a few months (pretty sure it was only a few months, maybe 6) died of lukemia - that *will* fuck with you, carrying a casket at the age of 16.

I've tried it. hell, i've done it as much in the last 2 weeks as i did in 8 months of school - which is weird, IMO.

I dont view it as bad, in moderation. if you're responsible, as many have mentioned, then its similar to drinking. which i also do in moderation, and used to frown upon.

I dont think the gateway theory necessarily works - i have NO urge to do anything other then drink a beer after work, on any given day. I think that if its abused, like with many other addictions, it will screw you up. its knowing your triggers and the effecst of drugs that will help.

i know somone who's done a few hard drugs (at least coke), and she says that she doesnt buy into all this hype about being totally messed up on X drug, because its about how you let it affect you. she said that when she did shrooms or something, the drug itself didnt have much of an effect on her because she didnt run around going "oh man, im tripping out!" and having a *self-fulfilling prophecy*. and i think this is very true, as im sure everyone knew that one guy at whatever party who would drink or toke up and next thing you know, he's freaking out unnecessarily in whatever manner.

I'm not against it, i dont look down on people for smoking it - some of the people who smoke it make silly decisions allll on their own. noodles raises excellent points about the legality of it, and mike made a good point touching on psychology due to age of the user and mental level.

cody, has reading through this thread affected your thinking in any way? I'm curious.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 31, 2008)

kristallin said:


> There's only one reason why I don't smoke pot, and that is that the smell makes me nauseous. I smell it, I have to leave, otherwise I'm vomiting on your carpets.


 
_Slightly_ OT
That really sucks, cause I *LOVE!!* the smell of weed (either fresh or smoked).


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

loktide said:


> i love the fact marijuana allows you to focus on music and art from and pay attention to it in a different way, you would normaly do. It's almost like a "sensonry enhancer", if that makes any sense.
> 
> on the other hand, i hate the fact i easily get carried away by smoking all the time and not just "occasionally". It makes me lazy, i eat all the time, and i can't focus for doing productive things. Therefore, i try to restrict my consume.
> 
> it also is completely incompatible for me while doing work that requires a lot of thinking and concentration, since it significantly reduces my ability to concentrate and focus on things, even at the next day. Therefore, i find myself smoking almost exclusively when i'm on holidays, or on weekends.




For some reason it bugs me when I hear drugs reffered to as enhancers, but I get what you mean.

Your brain is malfunctioning but at the same time your senses seemed heightened, things that are normally mundane are suddenly REALLY interesting  and you can somehow focus intently on the smallest details of a sound...

But....at the same time....you're just high dude! Your brain is misfiring, that's not a TV dude, that's a painting, and that....that's not music...that's just the water running.

Be smarter than the drug, get the joke, have fun.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

HamBungler said:


> I'm also in full agreement with Noodles. An individual needs to take responsibility for his/her actions, plain and simple. If you're going to smoke pot, smoke it responsibly or face consequences at your own risk. I've been smoking for two years and it has NEVER had an adverse effect on my life. Have I seen others get drawn into doing more, harder drugs? Yes, but it wasn't because of weed, it was because they thought it would be "cool", another thing that would be great if drugs were legalized, it wouldn't be "cool" anymore because it isn't daring or illegal. My main problem with pot is people who smoke it way too often, in which case it usually does become a problem because they're high all the time. That Amotivational Syndrome is bullshit though, a lot of the time big-time pot smokers don't know the facts about pot themselves and become lazy simply because they think they are supposed to. Actually, in controlled, regular doses pot is actually quite good for you, even going so far as to slightly help prevent cancer because THC attaches to and takes out carcinogens, and helps relieve stress which can cause a huge array of health problems. Before I even tried pot I did a lot of research for myself so I could learn the facts, and going into it knowing them there is a greater chance you can use it to benefit instead of harm yourself. That's my two cents.



I'm with you here, before I try any drug I'm DEFIFINITLY doing research on it to understand how it might effect my body, that's why I have avoided coke, pcp, meth, etc. 

I like recreational substances, it's fun  Anybody who enjoys a beer enjoys a beer for the same reason that people like a hit of pot or a hit of acid, but god damnit learn about what you're putting in your body!


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## Michael (Jul 31, 2008)

playstopause said:


> I think I understand, but I want to _really_ understand, since to me, your opinion sounds like the perfect example of "demonizing" something we don't really know about. Imho, too many clichés and misinformations are circulating around when it comes to pot. To me, your answer sounds like you're talking about crack.
> 
> And it's not to be on your case, it's all for the sake of the conversation that's goin' on in this thread.
> 
> ...



My sisters ex-boyfreind was a hardcore stoner for years. He literally sat at home all day doing cones. It completely consumed his life. He had plently of reasons for doing it (which I'm not going into). I don't have anything against people who do it, I just hate what it does to people who get seriously addicted. 

He went into NA a while back and has now been sober for over a year.

I don't think it can do anything to me, since I haven't, and never will, ever try it. I like to take good care of myself and I refuse to put any strange substances through my body. 

I couldn't care less about people doing it as a recreational thing, I just hate how it consumes peoples lifes when they get seriously addicted. Call me uptight, I don't care.


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I'm with you here, before I try any drug I'm DEFIFINITLY doing research on it




im sorry but that just sounds so funny.  i think ozzy said the same thing.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

daybean said:


> im sorry but that just sounds so funny.  i think ozzy said the same thing.



You're comparing me to an out of control alcoholic drug addict?


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> You're comparing me to an out of control alcoholic drug addict?




no, i think it just sounds funny. its totally responsible, i did the same thing.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

daybean said:


> no, i think it just sounds funny. its totally responsible, i did the same thing.



Well it's like...lets say all drugs are legal, and drug stores are really fucking cool now, and you're looking at the recreation drug section.

PCP: Causes paranoia, belief that you're invincible, may make you kill random people, cause uncontrolled aggression, general douchebaggery.

LSD: Makes everything really interesting, you see lots of nice colors, you'll probably want to sit for hours and enjoy them, warning: large repeated doses might drive you batshit insane.


Which one would you take?


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

neither, go for shrooms. those two drugs can fuck you up for life!!!! i did a whole lot of research for peyote and shrooms before i took them.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

daybean said:


> neither, go for shrooms. those two drugs can fuck you up for life!!!! i did a whole lot of research for peyote and shrooms before i took them.



I know a couple LSD users, never met a messed up in the head one, but you're right it can happen.


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I know a couple LSD users, never met a messed up in the head one, but you're right it can happen.



it all depends on what you get. you can get a drop or stamp, or what ever they are using now (its been years since ive done anyting besides drinking). ive never taken lsd and ive heard of some horror stories and some beutiful experiences on the drug. shrooms however if you know what type of shroom your eating, you can research it and know how much to take. theyre so many different types of shrooms.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 31, 2008)

Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You fellows have no idea.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You fellows have no idea.



I've heard of people using DMT, never read much about it though.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 31, 2008)

Joe Rogan talks extensively about it. Some crazy shit.

Also, George Noory (Coast to Coast AM) has had some guests on who have spoken about it.

There's a Prof in New Mexico, I believe, who is (has?) doing research on DMT. He's the only person in the US allowed to conduct experiments with a hallucinogenic drug like this.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Joe Rogan talks extensively about it. Some crazy shit.
> 
> Also, George Noory (Coast to Coast AM) has had some guests on who have spoken about it.
> 
> There's a Prof in New Mexico, I believe, who is (has?) doing research on DMT. He's the only person in the US allowed to conduct experiments with a hallucinogenic drug like this.



I know that it's like a near death experience in some cases, you see the light and the feel the calm according to someone I talked to who tried it. 

But, I just read about the machine-elves.....wtf? People having the same hallucination?


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

machine-elves. that sounds like a movie waiting to happen. people having the same hallucination could be that it got around by word of mouth, then the brain just created the thought.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

daybean said:


> machine-elves. that sounds like a movie waiting to happen. people having the same hallucination could be that it got around by word of mouth, then the brain just created the thought.



Very possible, the mind is odd that way.


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

just did very little research and people also experience "alien space insects" alot of them see this vision aswell.


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## daybean (Jul 31, 2008)

also here is a link to a huge library of articles and experiences (for almost every drug) . i use to visit this site alot for research of course.

Erowid


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 31, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Well it's like...lets say all drugs are legal, and drug stores are really fucking cool now, and you're looking at the recreation drug section.
> 
> PCP: Causes paranoia, belief that you're invincible, may make you kill random people, cause uncontrolled aggression, general douchebaggery.
> 
> ...


 
LSD!! LSD!!



Zepp88 said:


> I've heard of people using DMT, never read much about it though.


 



Allan Watts said:


> Load univers into cannon, aim at brain, fire.


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## Zepp88 (Jul 31, 2008)

All_¥our_Bass;1155182 said:


> LSD!! LSD!!



 Post...lacking...substance...

But, now I'm aware of this Alan Watts character.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 31, 2008)

Well... you asked the question, I gave an answer.


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## Pauly (Jul 31, 2008)

I'm with legalising and Noodles. Also this is a good source of info:
The Good Drugs Guide

Also read Doors of Perception by Huxley of Brave New World fame, very very interesting.


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## noodles (Jul 31, 2008)

Michael said:


> My sisters ex-boyfreind was a hardcore stoner for years. He literally sat at home all day doing cones. It completely consumed his life. He had plently of reasons for doing it (which I'm not going into). I don't have anything against people who do it, I just hate what it does to people who get seriously addicted.
> 
> He went into NA a while back and has now been sober for over a year.
> 
> ...



Do you drink, Michael? Just curious.

I drink, but I also hate it for what it can do to some people. My mother's side of the family has been ruined by alcohol: every single one of my uncle's is divorced, and it took my grandmother dying before my grandfather finally put the bottle down. I've seen the destructive path that addiction causes, swallowing up people in its path.

It is very, very easy to hate the substance for what people do when under the influence of it. It would be easy for me to just not drink at all, since it has wrecked so much havoc in my family. However, I like to drink. I love the taste of a good beer, Scotch, or bourbon. Hell, I even occasionally like to get fucked up.

However, I've also been to AA meetings with members of my family, just out of moral support. You know what I've found about alcoholics? They don't like to drink. They HATE to drink. Most of them all tried quitting on their own many, many times. The problem is that they NEED to drink, and that is the real difference.

I can understand your recalcitrance towards marijuana, and I would never suggest that you need to try it. People who go around, rallying support for their substance are a) as annoying as the people who want to outlaw everything and b) probably have a problem. However, I implore you to not hate the substance, and instead hate the people who have something wrong with them that allows them to become hopelessly addicted, utterly changing their lives, and never for the better.

I've noticed that a lot of former addicts tend to replace their substance of choice with something. For many of them, it is AA meetings. When I hear about the guy who has been going for twenty years, I pity him for his lack of strength. He just can't do it on his own. For a buddy of mine, it was running. Five to ten miles, every single day. Five years clean, and one knee surgery sidelined him forever, sending him right back to the bottle. Addicts tend to have addictive personalities, but often times, their addiction does not negatively impact anyone around them. Never think that is isn't bad for them, though. My friend NEEDED to run, every single day. He may have thought he was happy, but he was chained to running in the same way he was chained to a bottle. Obsession is not healthy, no matter what form it comes in.


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## sakeido (Jul 31, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Joe Rogan talks extensively about it. Some crazy shit.
> 
> Also, George Noory (Coast to Coast AM) has had some guests on who have spoken about it.
> 
> There's a Prof in New Mexico, I believe, who is (has?) doing research on DMT. He's the only person in the US allowed to conduct experiments with a hallucinogenic drug like this.



That sounds very interesting.. I thought salvia was intense, but DMT sounds like something else altogether


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 31, 2008)

daybean said:


> people having the same hallucination could be that it got around by word of mouth, then the brain just created the thought.



That would be a logical theory...

Only, lots of people who've never had DMT, nor heard of anyone who's had it, or even heard OF DMT, report the same "trip."

Not that's freeky.


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## playstopause (Jul 31, 2008)

Michael said:


> Michael's last post



Thanks for answering.  I understand your point of view and I respect it.
But I need to add that I hope you understand that you can't build an opinion based on a single case. What's hard here is that person is in your direct entourage. It _may_ cloud your opinion. Thing is, I think that's a very rare case of addiction, especially compared with alcohol. My best answer to this would be: 



noodles said:


> It is very, very easy to hate the substance for what people do when under the influence of it.
> 
> ...
> 
> I can understand your recalcitrance towards marijuana, and I would never suggest that you need to try it. People who go around, rallying support for their substance are a) as annoying as the people who want to outlaw everything and b) probably have a problem. However, I implore you to not hate the substance, and instead hate the people who have something wrong with them that allows them to become hopelessly addicted, utterly changing their lives, and never for the better.



Noodles, seriously, I don't know what's gotten into you in this thread, but really, everything you write here is spot on, IMO.


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## noodles (Jul 31, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Noodles, seriously, I don't know what's gotten into you in this thread, but really, everything you write here is spot on, IMO.



Well, I'm very much in line with Jeffersonian philosophy. The only things that should be illegal are the things that you do that effect other people, and there should be no overlap. You kill someone while high? We already have laws against murder and manslaughter, so there is no reason to outlaw the drug the guy was on.

Plus, most people do not understand the history of drug criminalization. Nearly every illegal substance was used to target a specific ethnic group. Opium is illegal because people were afraid the Chinese immigrants were going to lure away "god-fearing white women for the sake of corrupting them". Marijuana is illegal because they wanted away to get Mexican immigrants off of the streets. Peyote is tied in closely with Native American culture, and as such, it is illegal anywhere but on reservations, being used as a wedge to keep Indians on reservations. Revisionist history has painted this altruistic view of the United States Government, boldly protecting its citizens from the evil effects of drugs, when we were nothing but a bunch of racist assholes.

John R. Bartels, the first DEA chief ever, once made a statement to the effect that he had no idea how he would force the illegality of a "weed that grows freely". Here is the only proof I need for the elimination of the DEA:



Wikipedia said:


> In 2005, the DEA seized a reported $1.4 billion in drug trade related assets and $477 million worth of drugs. However, according to the White House's Office of Drug Control Policy, the total value of all of the drugs sold in the U.S. is as much as $64 billion a year, making the DEA's efforts to intercept the flow of drugs into and within the U.S. less than 1% effective.



A program that is less than 1% effective is a program that needs to be eliminated. Think of all the good we could do with the billions of dollars we waste every year in a vein attempt to combat a problem that we created. I don't care what the drug is, you're not going to make an addict stop unless you physically restrain him, usually by jailing him. So, rather than spend money to try and keep some dumb crackhead from lighting up, I want to TAX his crack, and use it to pay for medical care, real drug education, and rehabilitation for all who want it.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 31, 2008)

Dave, great post. You are almost always a bastion of common sense. I agree 100%.

But...

Now apply that same political philosophy to guns. 



noodles said:


> Well, I'm very much in line with Jeffersonian philosophy. You kill someone with a gun? We already have laws against murder and manslaughter, so there is no reason to outlaw the gun the guy was using.





For such a libertarian minded guy, I can't fathom how you toe the liberal line on gun control. I'm a fucking tree hugging progressive, and I don't see eye to eye with them at all on that issue.


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## noodles (Jul 31, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> For such a libertarian minded guy, I can't fathom how you toe the liberal line on gun control. I'm a fucking tree hugging progressive, and I don't see eye to eye with them at all on that issue.



Because I don't think handguns need to be in the hands of people, pure and simple. They were designed for one purpose: point them at someone, and kill them. Who hunts with a handgun? Is the handgun the standard weapon of the militia? We don't allow private citizens to own automatic weapons, hand grenades, and tanks. Why can't the handgun be a police/military weapon only? Stick with rifles and shotguns. I really don't think I need to get into waiting periods for background checks, since anyone who doesn't see that that makes sense is probably smoking something other than the topic of this thread. 

Everyone argues that an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime. Hey, I agree. So, why the concealed weapons hard-on? How is a concealed weapon a deterrent? Carry that thing out in the open, and then you are deterring people. Carrying concealed is just saying that you want to be able to whip that puppy out and blow someone's head of.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 31, 2008)

Carrying around a rifle isn't the most practical thing for self-protection, Dave.

And if your contention about CCW permit holders were true, well, then we'd be seeing all kinds of news stories about CCW people blowing people's heads off. However, we don't. But we do see criminals who obtain their guns illegally doing that.

Someone could use the same arguments you make about guns, and make them about drugs. "I don't think drugs need to be in the hands of people, pure and simple." We can equate heroin and meth with tanks and grenades, as we can see, all of those are potentially very deadly. And guess what? I'm all for keeping tanks, grenades, heroin, and meth out of the average person's hands. 

But weed and handguns? C'mon. Tax 'em and regulate 'em. Simple. Hand gun bans are about as effective as weed bans, and as pointless, as well as, dare I say, immoral. Certainly from a personal liberty perspective.


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## BigM555 (Jul 31, 2008)

noodles said:


> Revisionist history has painted this altruistic view of the United States Government, boldly protecting its citizens from the evil effects of drugs, when we were nothing but a bunch of racist assholes.





Quoted for truth!

So much of the general public has simply accepted the spoon fed propaganda that demonizes it that they no longer question the motivations of those whom enacted the laws in the first place.


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## JBroll (Jul 31, 2008)

noodles said:


> Because I don't think handguns need to be in the hands of people, pure and simple. They were designed for one purpose: point them at someone, and kill them.



Thank you, Captain Obvious. What you're failing to see is that sometimes that's *necessary* - someone threatening you, someone threatening your family, someone messing with Texas, whatever. But guns aren't what you should be hating, people who have problems with guns are the bad guys here - we have laws against murder



noodles said:


> So, why the concealed weapons hard-on? How is a concealed weapon a deterrent? Carry that thing out in the open, and then you are deterring people. Carrying concealed is just saying that you want to be able to whip that puppy out and blow someone's head of.



Carrying it out in the open puts you at risk if you're in a situation like a bank robbery (where you'll undoubtedly get targeted like the police and guards), or really any crime where violence would be used (if someone tries to jack your car and they see a handgun, they'll be tempted to shoot you right away before you're a threat to them), and requiring guns to be out in the open gets rid of a lot of the fear of an armed populous instilled by the possibility of CCW - if you want to mug someone and you know where all the armed people are, you're going to have a much easier time.

You're missing something very important here if you don't see how concealed weapons are helpful for crime reduction. Further, you're basically putting forth the same argument for guns that you're opposing for drugs. (Again, sometimes you need to kill someone.) The right to bear arms wasn't guaranteed so that we could all go hunting with the Boy Scout troop, it was for protection and defense - and denying someone the right to defend themselves is even worse than denying them the right to fill themselves up with foreign substances because you *know* someone will get fucked up.

Jeff


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## yevetz (Aug 1, 2008)

I was hardly drug addicted aobut 1.5 years it was weed speed extazy ..sometimes cocaine. I am quit about 3.5 years ago. When all that stuff is was holding me it was like nightmare. You know like, I am on some party I taking a doze of speed and BOOM im in the university in front of teacher and my nose is bleeding. ALL THAT WaS BETWEEN I DON"T REMEMBER. I know that the weed is much better than alco. Like you will not fight when you smoke a pot or so......coz weed is only a positive. But anyway after those 1.5 years in my opinion drugs is shit and fuck them


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

yevetz said:


> I was hardly drug addicted aobut 1.5 years it was weed speed extazy ..sometimes cocaine. I am quit about 3.5 years ago. When all that stuff is was holding me it was like nightmare. You know like, I am on some party I taking a doze of speed and BOOM im in the university in front of teacher and my nose is bleeding. ALL THAT WaS BETWEEN I DON"T REMEMBER. I know that the weed is much better than alco. Like you will not fight when you smoke a pot or so......coz weed is only a positive. But anyway after those 1.5 years in my opinion drugs is shit and fuck them



I appreciate hearing the story, but what are you actually saying here? Legalize or ban?

In relation to this, I have a quote.

"I've had good and bad sex, but I'm not giving up pussy." - Bill Hicks


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## canuck brian (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm an avid pot smoker. I support the decriminalization of weed and I hope that one day that my government will wake up, support it and eventually tax it. If my government regulated growers and the sale of it, i'd be happy to pay twice what I pay now for equivalent weed. The fact that it's illegal is completely stupid and there's really no reason for it. How much money and time is wasted policing personal weed smokers? WAY too much. 

How many people have you heard of getting blazed and getting into weed-fueled scraps at bars? The only thing weed does when used in moderation is stimulate the local pizza economy and drive XBox 360 sales up. Hell, when we had the marijuana march here in Toronto, over a thousand people gathered, got high and ate hot dogs and ice cream. Zero arrests, no incidents and one police officer I spoke to said that busting people for weed was "a waste of time." I just got back from Vancouver where I spent a few hours in the Amsterdam Cafe. Every single person was high and all that happened there was a sudden surge in sales of fries and cheesecake. 

I smoke for two reasons - one, I like it. A lot. Two, it's the only thing that dulls the pains in my knees, ankles and wrists to the point where I actually don't feel it. I've tried every sort of high power anti-inflammitory (including one that made me shit blood! yay!) and painkiller and aside from really harsh stuff like oxycontin(addictive) and percacet (addictive), nothing works. I wish i could be that medicated and work, but the downside to that is that I'm in no condition to work in a professional atmosphere under the influence of pot. Work and drugs do not mix under any circumstances and it's completely unprofessional and irresponsible to do work while fucked up.

Some people take everything to extremes, and pot use is definitely no exception. I know people that have done nothing but smoke weed and work a crappy job for years on end. ANYTHING in extremes is usually bad, but in moderation, it doesn't have to be.

As for the most extreme shit I've ever had in my system - Fentanyl. I've had it twice during my surgeries and I wasn't put under either time. The idea that some people use that stuff recreationally stuns me. My next door neighbor was on that stuff for a while to kill the pains he was having from chemotherapy for stomach cancer. He couldn't deal with the fact that it basically turned him into a vegetable, but it was the only thing that stopped the pain for him at the time. He begged his doc to give him something else and eventually got him his legal permit to carry and smoke weed. No more fentynol and weed did a better job to kill the pain.


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## loktide (Aug 1, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> "I've had good and bad sex, but I'm not giving up pussy." - Bill Hicks




 that's great


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## yevetz (Aug 1, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I appreciate hearing the story, but what are you actually saying here? Legalize or ban?
> 
> In relation to this, I have a quote.
> 
> "I've had good and bad sex, but I'm not giving up pussy." - Bill Hicks



Legalize. each human need's to be free in his/her choice


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

Even though I smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes every day, I've never tried any drugs because I don't feel like it! I'd rather get wasted with my buddies drinking ale and fine wine than doing that stuff. But nevertheless I think they should legalize it because people will stop doing it if it's not illegal and "cool" anymore (since anyone can do it freely). Yes people are going to be happy and crazy about it but not longer than 1-2 months. They'll get over it sooner or later.
And think about this....Having a glass (or 2....or 10 hehe) of alcohol, brings people and a good company closer.....drugs on the other hand make people turn their backs to each other!


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> Even though I smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes every day, I've never tried any drugs because I don't feel like it! I'd rather get wasted with my buddies drinking ale and fine wine than doing that stuff. But nevertheless I think they should legalize it because people will stop doing it if it's not illegal and "cool" anymore (since anyone can do it freely). Yes people are going to be happy and crazy about it but not longer than 1-2 months. They'll get over it sooner or later.
> And think about this....Having a glass (or 2....or 10 hehe) of alcohol, brings people and a good company closer.....drugs on the other hand make people turn their backs to each other!



I think your logic may be a little flawed, personally if, for example, LSD was legalized I'd be more apt to use it because I wouldn't have the fear of persecution. And believe me, there are some days where I'd really like to.

Your point is solid though on the case of the "cool factor" of drugs, or wanting to be the "bad kid", that would probably lessen. That is also flawed though, because kids still drink underage.

Which ultimately brings us to education....


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

I was talking about legalizing marijuana only. (I think ALL drugs are bad though).

But you find that problem everywhere. Kids drink and smoke when they turn 14-15 to play cool. They either carry on or they stop after a couple of times.

In my country there's no strict prohibition for underage alcohol drinking or smoking.
A 4 year old kid can go to any store that sells alcohol or tobacco and buy as much as they want.


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## yevetz (Aug 1, 2008)

One more. I don't need drugs to feel good


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> I was talking about legalizing marijuana only. (I think ALL drugs are bad though).
> 
> But you find that problem everywhere. Kids drink and smoke when they turn 14-15 to play cool. They either carry on or they stop after a couple of times.
> 
> ...



Legalize it, and provide good quality factual information, let free will determine the rest.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

yevetz said:


> One more. I don't need drugs to feel good



Certainly not.


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

yes.....a bottle of fine ale, a girl with nice t1ts and @$$ and a 7string that rocks is all I need!!!!


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> ahahahaha.....a bottle of fine ale, a girl with nice t1ts and @$$ and a 7string that rocks is all I need!!!!



See this here, perfect example that legalizing drugs will not cause an epidemic. Even though drugs are illegal, they're still readilly available, I could walk into any high school and find a plethora of goodies.

But, still, not all people feel compelled to use them.


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> See this here, perfect example that legalizing drugs will not cause an epidemic. Even though drugs are illegal, they're still readilly available, I could walk into any high school and find a plethora of goodies.
> 
> But, still, not all people feel compelled to use them.




Maybe that is why they call it "high" school in the first place


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## canuck brian (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> Even though I smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes every day, I've never tried any drugs because I don't feel like it! I'd rather get wasted with my buddies drinking ale and fine wine than doing that stuff. But nevertheless I think they should legalize it because people will stop doing it if it's not illegal and "cool" anymore (since anyone can do it freely). Yes people are going to be happy and crazy about it but not longer than 1-2 months. They'll get over it sooner or later.
> And think about this....Having a glass (or 2....or 10 hehe) of alcohol, brings people and a good company closer.....drugs on the other hand make people turn their backs to each other!



I don't smoke weed because it's illegal and cool. I prefer hanging out with my buddies getting baked as it's a lot cheaper. I will probably cheer if it's made legal and continue smoking. I will not "get over it."

Weed doesn't make people turn their backs on each other. I'd love to see what you're using as a basis for that ridiculous blanket statement.

Your entire post offends me. You're categorizing weed smokers as stupid, trendy idiots who'd be better off getting shitfaced off alcohol.


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

As a matter of fact I do not intend to offend anyone. What people do is their problem.
I was just referring to HEAVY drugs and addiction and young people who think it's a way to be trendy or cool.
Not you or any person who smokes weed in general. For your information I have NOTHING against people who smoke weed and I got many friends who smoke that.
I was expressing the fact that I never felt the need to use any stuff.
And the part about people turning their backs to each other, was for the heavily addicted, toxic-chemical drug users, which again is fine by me as long as they mind their own bussiness.
So I guess you got it wrong


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## Nick (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> Even though I smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes every day, I've never tried any drugs because I don't feel like it! I'd rather get wasted with my buddies drinking ale and fine wine than doing that stuff. But nevertheless I think they should legalize it because people will stop doing it if it's not illegal and "cool" anymore (since anyone can do it freely). Yes people are going to be happy and crazy about it but not longer than 1-2 months. They'll get over it sooner or later.
> And think about this....Having a glass (or 2....or 10 hehe) of alcohol, brings people and a good company closer.....drugs on the other hand make people turn their backs to each other!





come live in my country 

Facts & figures:

-in nearly half (45%) of all violent incidents, victims believed offenders to be 
under the influence of alcohol 

-this figure rose to 58% in cases of attacks by people they did not know 

- 39% of domestic violence cases involve alcohol 

-in nearly a million violent attacks in 2007-08, the aggressors were believed to be drunk 

(Source: British Crime Survey 2007/08)


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## canuck brian (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> A a matter of fact I do not intend to offend anyone. What people do it's their problem.
> I was just referring to HEAVY drugs and addiction and young people who think it's a way to be trendy or cool.
> I was expressing the fact that I never felt the need to use any stuff.
> And the part about people turning their backs to each other, was for the heavily addicted, toxic-chemical drug users, which again is fine by me as long as they mind their own bussiness.
> So I guess you got it wrong.





AxelKay said:


> I was talking about legalizing marijuana only. (I think ALL drugs are bad though).



That's really odd, because I haven't seen you mention legalizing anything BUT marijuana. I haven't heard of any 14 -15 year olds as you've previously mentioned, let alone ANYONE of any age as you previously mentioned hooked on coke or crystal meth that would give it up if it was legalized. If I managed to "get it wrong" then please, enlighten me.

You weren't intending to offend anyone. Thats great! The problem here is that you did. 

(saw your post about building a 7 string - pick up this book by Mr Hiscock: Make your own electric guitar. )


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## AxelKay (Aug 1, 2008)

Yeah my bad....Well pardon me but my English ain't that well. And I sometimes forget what I want to type and I get back editing numerous times 



Nick said:


> come live in my country
> 
> Facts & figures:
> 
> ...




hehe yeah I know....I think I said a couple of drinks (the 10 glass thing was a joke of course)

Oh and where I mention 14-15 old kids, I mean common smoking, not drug using.
And all I wanted to say (and I don't blame you) is that weed should be legalized for teens to stop thinking it's cool, and for the reason it SHOULDN'T be categorized with other types of drugs...We all know that weed doesn't kill you!

Btw thank you very much for the link to the book it seems helpful 
So I guess it's "No hard feelings mate"...right?


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## playstopause (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> Even though I smoke 2-3 packs of cigarettes every day, I've never tried any drugs because I don't feel like it! I'd rather get wasted with my buddies drinking ale and fine wine than doing that stuff.



Wow, i'd rather smoke a gram of weed per day than 2-3 packs of cigarettes... And you say drugs ain't for you, right? 
This will have you die before any weed smoker on the surface of the earth!


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## canuck brian (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> hehe yeah I know....I think I said a couple of drinks (the 10 glass thing was a joke of course)
> 
> Oh and where I mention 14-15 old kids, I mean common smoking, not drug using.
> And all I wanted to say (and I don't blame you) is that weed should be legalized for teens to stop thinking it's cool, and for the reason it SHOULDN'T be categorized with other types of drugs...We all know that weed doesn't kill you!
> ...



I read previously the 14-15 year old statement in an older post, but after re-reading that one, i took it out of context. 

No hard feelings at all mate! I just get REALLY defensive when it concerns weed. That book is a good starting place though - head over to Projectguitar.com and readreadread. There are a bunch of build threads on here (including mine) that might shed some light on questions you're going to ask.


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## noodles (Aug 1, 2008)

AxelKay said:


> And think about this....Having a glass (or 2....or 10 hehe) of alcohol, brings people and a good company closer.....drugs on the other hand make people turn their backs to each other!



Whoa, dude, have you ever got it wrong! Throw aside the statistics about alcohol related violent crime, as compared to the practically non-existent marijuana related violent crime, and you still have to consider that it isn't the _substances_ that bring people together to have a good time. It is _community_ that brings people together, and often _substances being abused_ that drive them apart.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 1, 2008)

good point noodles, i cant remember the last time i locked myself in my room alone to smoke pot!!  its just such an antisocial drug!


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## Luan (Aug 1, 2008)

yevetz said:


> You know like, I am on some party I taking a doze of speed and BOOM im in the university in front of teacher and my nose is bleeding. ALL THAT WaS BETWEEN I DON"T REMEMBER.



Wow..


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## swedenuck (Aug 1, 2008)

I would like to take a moment, and blame marijuana use for a horrible lack of stroghanoff in my fridge this morning.

That is all.


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## Aaron (Aug 1, 2008)

All i wanna do is go home and smoke a joint rather than drink whiskey and wake up feeling like shit every morning, i would do it but i get random drug tests, so you never know when your gonna get popped.


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## Jongpil Yun (Aug 1, 2008)

Evidence is that using a vape there are practically no detrimental side effects from cannabis. The steak I have every week probably does more to hasten my death.

LSD -> same thing. Both have a ridiculously high LD50, and apparently very few, if any, detrimental effects, either socially or physically.

Since noodles has basically owned this thread, I should just point out that a huge number of people in my department (science in general, actually) are routinely baked. I think the common misconception that cannabis -> lazy NEET or freeter stems from the "Most X are Y, therefore most Y are X" fallacy.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm really glad to hear that about LSD


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## El Caco (Aug 1, 2008)

Xaios said:


> I guess it's time for me to chime in.
> 
> My feelings on the issue of the legality of marijuana are mixed. I've known people who can use weed utterly and completely responsibly. I've also known people for whom weed was the gateway to a whole world of pain. Case in point, in my first real band, we had another guitarist, and he was fantastic. Then, a few months after we started this band, he started smoking pot. His attitude toward practice changed, it started to show up in his appearance (he turned into a slob) and his academics. In under a year from being completely clean, he was addicted to cocaine, for which he went into rehab. He was 15 years old. He got cleaned up, and now he's a teetotaler, as well as a productive member of society. Literally the ONLY thing in his life that changed things was that he started smoking pot, those were the words from his mouth after he got clean. No emotional stress at home, nothing like that.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to pick on you personally, there have been a few posts like this, yours was the one I chose to quote. A few years ago I would have responded almost exactly as you did, that was before I learnt to think for myself. I am not saying that I am 100% certain that you are repeating something you heard but what you wrote is generic pulpit anti drug sermon that I have heard many, many times at many different churches.



Xaios said:


> Let's face it, the image of any kind of hand-rolled herbs is just plain more associated with weed than it is tobacco. Same as with pipes. I'm not saying it's fair, but it's the way it is. If I see someone on the street with a syringe in his arm, the first thing I'm liable to think is "hard drugs," even though it's entirely possible that he might be taking something else, who knows?
> 
> But I have to say, I can't remember the last time I saw someone smoking something hand rolled that was just a cigarette.



You obviously do not spend much time with smokers or do not pay attention, I know just as many tobacco smokers as I know that smoke tailors. Until recently I smoked 99% rollies, 1% tailors. I have tried pot many years ago but I tried it before I started smoking rollies and have not smoked pot since I started smoking rollies. Have a look at the tobacconist next time and have a look at how many packets of tobacco there are, then factor in that a pack of tobacco lasts about 5 times as long as a pack of tailors, how long do you think those packs have been sitting there? I can tell you it's not very long. As I have sold tobacco products in my own business as well as been responsible for stock control for the local Tavern, I can tell you that my sales experience backs up my observations, almost 50% of people smoke loose tobacco here. I can also tell you that the majority of pot smokers I know actually smoke tailor made cigarettes.



yevetz said:


> One more. I don't need drugs to feel good



Of course you don't, you play festivals with some of the best bands in the world, you have a country full of beautiful, successful, teenage girls
throwing themselves at you, you are our GOD  why wouldn't you feel good 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

My feelings about pot have been stated before and are basically the same as Dave's. I have tried it, I thought it was hypocritical for me to be against something that I had no knowledge or experience with. I don't see the appeal, I never enjoyed it but I am not against anyone smoking pot. I agree with legalising pot and regulating it as has been mentioned in this thread. I'd even recommend taking it a step further in countries with health care, if you have to register to smoke it then insurance companies and medicare can choose to impose a surcharge on users to cover any additional medical expenses. If it is on your drivers license it would be easy to verify at a business and have the bonus of alerting officers when they pull you over that you may possibly be driving under the influence.

I think our laws in Australia concerning pot are crazy, there are places where it is legal to smoke and grow pot and others where it is illegal. One of the places it is legal is our Capital and home of parliament (convenient wouldn't you agree?), so it is legal for our politicians to smoke pot (not that any of them do  ) but just down the road it is illegal. 

My thought's on pot are related to my thoughts on most political matters, I believe in freedom, I am against legislation that takes away free choice, I am an adult not a child, I do not need or want politicians making decisions for me, I do not want them to tell me what to do or to tell me what's best for me, how would they fucking know.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Aug 2, 2008)

Man am I so blazeded right now!!

Feeling this good shouldn't be illegal.


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## Drage (Aug 2, 2008)

Never been high or drunk in my life, but Im not against the use of it, its just up to whoever chooses to do it.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 3, 2008)

Jongpil Yun said:


> Evidence is that using a vape there are practically no detrimental side effects from cannabis. The steak I have every week probably does more to hasten my death.
> 
> LSD -> same thing. Both have a ridiculously high LD50, and apparently very few, if any, detrimental effects, either socially or physically.
> 
> Since noodles has basically owned this thread, I should just point out that a huge number of people in my department (science in general, actually) are routinely baked. I think the common misconception that cannabis -> lazy NEET or freeter stems from the "Most X are Y, therefore most Y are X" fallacy.



Are you sure about the LSD thing? A friend of mine did way too much of that stuff and is now homeless because his parents kicked him out and he turned 19 a few weeks later.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 3, 2008)

Stealthtastic said:


> Are you sure about the LSD thing? A friend of mine did way too much of that stuff and is now homeless because his parents kicked him out and he turned 19 a few weeks later.



What does that have to do with long term health effects? That just sounds like your friend being irresponsible.


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## jaredowty (Aug 3, 2008)

I smoke pot at least once a day, and love it. It helps my carpal tunnel as well as other forms of chronic pain, and it just makes me feel great and very creative (I come up with my best riff/song ideas when I'm blazed, by far). Listening to music high is just ridiculously awesome, it just takes it all to a whole new level.

Though, I have had many struggles with abuse of the drug where it's led me to some bad places simply because of laziness. However, I quit smoking for a month earlier this year and guess what - I was just as lazy! That's when I realized that the drug isn't the problem, my lack of willpower and discipline in general is the problem.

On the flipside, I _am_ addicted, psychologically. When I come home from work at night and have had a rough day, I NEED a few hits to chill me out. If I'm out of pot, I'll end up in a really bad, irritable mood.

I'd like to get to the point where I'm smoking a lot less, which is definitely possible. Though I can't say it's truly harming me like it was before - because I've found enough responsibilty to get shit done, even when I'm high.

Yes, I think it should be legalized, for all the prior reasons listed.


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## Zepp88 (Aug 3, 2008)

I commend you for realizing that it's YOUR problem and not the DRUGS problem


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