# Dino Cazares' tone of MECHANIZE question..



## XxXPete (Apr 6, 2010)

HOLY crap that tone is INTENSE..Any idea what D used on the MECHANIZE cd?? -thanks


----------



## MFB (Apr 6, 2010)

> In the early days, his guitar tone derived from a modified Marshall JCM800 head with scooped mids and high treble settings to produce the thrashy, chugging tone which has been so influential to the metal genre.
> 
> During his time with Fear Factory, Cazares had also endorsed the Line 6 Flextone amp series,Vetta II HD and POD preamp. He is currently endorsing the Ibanez Toneblaster amps and plays custom-made 8-string RG and Xiphos guitars made by Ibanez.



Possibly?


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 6, 2010)

I believe Rick wrote about that somewhere..

Marshall + POD Pro X3 ? he used that in South America if I remember correctly...
could be something with the Line 6 also..

Hey Rick ?


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 6, 2010)

Vetta recorded through a Mesa cab, I think.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Apr 6, 2010)

Last time I saw Dino with Divine Heresy (Halloween 2009) he was using a Vetta II HD with a Line 6 4x12 (Vetta cab?)

I'll be at the April 11th Fear Factory show in SD, see what gear hes using


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 6, 2010)

A couple weeks ago he was using a Vetta and Mesa cabs, but he was going direct to the board from the Vetta and just using the Mesas as monitors.


----------



## sevenstringj (Apr 6, 2010)

Active pickups. (I know he endorses Duncan now, but it's quite possible he still uses EMG as well.)


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 6, 2010)

TomAwesome said:


> A couple weeks ago he was using a Vetta and Mesa cabs, but he was going direct to the board from the Vetta and just using the Mesas as monitors.


 
This.


----------



## eleven59 (Apr 6, 2010)

I remember Rick mentioning that he's using a POD X3 and a tube power amp now.


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 6, 2010)

I think I remember hearing something about an X3 Pro and a Fryette 2/90/2, but he's using the Vetta live on this tour, and I'm pretty sure that's what's on the new album, too.


----------



## XxXPete (Apr 6, 2010)

And..now_ I see he's in the ads for PEAVEYS 6534+_


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 6, 2010)

Those ads mean nothing. He never used a Toneblaster, either.


----------



## kingpinMS3 (Apr 6, 2010)

he was using a Vetta II live a few weeks ago.


----------



## Coryd (Apr 6, 2010)

Taken from: Dino Cazares: 'What We Are Doing Now Is Traditional Fear Factory Sound' | Interviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

*What about amplification?*

Amp wise, Im using a Line 6 Vetta II, Ive been using all Line 6 products since back in the day and the reason I use the Line 6 is that I used to have a Marshall JCM 800, a modified head and it got stolen back in 1998. And the Line 6 is the only thing that comes close to replicating that original tone that I had in my Marshall. The Marshall had 6505 tubes in it which gave it more of a solid state type of tone which I was really into. And I use Mesa Boogie rectifier cabinets with the Line 6. Live, I mainly use the Line 6 with the rectifier cabs. 

* How do you go about capturing your guitar tones in the studio?*

In the studio we stick a SM-57 in front of the cab as well as have a direct line. We sort of do a little bit of blending of the two tones together, but not much. And obviously we use a clean tone as well in case I want to re-amp later and stuff. But live, there are no mikes on the cabs, just a direct from the cab to the front of house.


----------



## Rick (Apr 6, 2010)

^That's what I was trying to remember. 

For Bringer of Plagues, they mixed a 5150 with some SS Marshall, IIRC.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Apr 6, 2010)

Mechanize was a Line 6 Vetta II head into a Mesa oversized Rectifier 4x12 and an EVH 5150 III head probably into the same Mesa cab (but possibly the matching EVH cab) blended together. 7 string songs used guitars with Blackouts. 8 string songs used guitars with EMG 808s.


----------



## FearFactoryDBCR (Apr 6, 2010)

When i saw him live, i'm sure i saw a POD X3 ontop of some Marshall dummy's

I have a good feeling he's using some sort of Line 6 head and cab, because he's got that real fat heavy line 6 distortion tone, that's excessivley loud too.


----------



## skeeballcore (Apr 6, 2010)

Any idea what amps/models he's using, and would there be an equivalent on the PodXT?


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 8, 2010)

Saw him with Divine Heresy at the Crocodile Rock in Allentown. I had a chance to BS with him while i was buying a shirt....He was using a Vetta 2, and no cabs at all. I saw it for myself and got it straight from the "horses mouth"(no pun or disrespect intended)...He said "Dude, I don't use cabs at all anymore".


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 9, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> He was using a Vetta 2, and no cabs at all. I saw it for myself and got it straight from the "horses mouth"(no pun or disrespect intended)...He said "Dude, I don't use cabs at all anymore".



Now thats some interesting info


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Apr 9, 2010)

...but the album was recorded with a mic'd up cab.


----------



## Bobo (Apr 9, 2010)

Rick said:


> ^That's what I was trying to remember.
> 
> For Bringer of Plagues, they mixed a 5150 with some SS Marshall, IIRC.



I think the tone in B.O.P. fucking rules.

BTW, I'm revisiting Obsolete tonight.....damn that cd was so fucking awesome. I do wish the new FF had some more groove type tracks that we used to hear. Maybe request that on the next CD when you talk to Dino again


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 10, 2010)

JoshuaLogan said:


> ...but the album was recorded with a mic'd up cab.


Is that what you heard? or is that what you know


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 10, 2010)

Bobo said:


> I think the tone in B.O.P. fucking rules.
> 
> BTW, I'm revisiting Obsolete tonight.....damn that cd was so fucking awesome. I do wish the new FF had some more groove type tracks that we used to hear. Maybe request that on the next CD when you talk to Dino again


Excuse my drunk ramblings


----------



## Shinto (Apr 10, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hey douche bag......its not like he's Eddie Van Halen. he sell's his own fuckin t shirts...you can ask him a question and holy fuck you can watch what hes playin through. I swear to christ, some of you message board cunts are rediculous.


Calm down, you only posted here six times and you're already trying to get banned?
At least don't be so condescending.


----------



## Chickenhawk (Apr 10, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hey douche bag......its not like he's Eddie Van Halen. he sell's his own fuckin t shirts...you can ask him a question and holy fuck you can watch what hes playin through. I swear to christ, some of you message board cunts are rediculous.


 

I don't see how anybody tried to offend you.


----------



## Prydogga (Apr 10, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hey douche bag......its not like he's Eddie Van Halen. he sell's his own fuckin t shirts...you can ask him a question and holy fuck you can watch what hes playin through. I swear to christ, some of you message board cunts are rediculous.



Saw this in the Ban list, in which the point of which is to point and laugh, so I'ma just point. and laugh. Way to go off at him for absolutley no reason, and for making a useless post that made NO sense.


----------



## Bobo (Apr 10, 2010)

Actually with the smilie face I thought it was obvious I was making a lame joke about how Rick could us his friendship with Dino to get something I wanted (but not really, just a joke). I know how it can be annoying for fans to do certain requests like that, that's why I was trying to make a joke of it. I hope that explanation helps brighten your day dimesbag


----------



## Antimatter (Apr 10, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hey douche bag......its not like he's Eddie Van Halen. he sell's his own fuckin t shirts...you can ask him a question and holy fuck you can watch what hes playin through. I swear to christ, some of you message board cunts are rediculous.


 wat

Also congratulations on your 1000th post bobo


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 10, 2010)

Well that guy was a cunt. A Dimebag fan too...its always the Dimebag fans.

The tone on Bleed The Fifth is my fave Dino tone, though Mechanize has a nice low end.


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 10, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Well that guy was a cunt. A Dimebag fan too...its always the Dimebag fans.




Fuck You man , I'm a Dimebag fan, and I can name a couple(wellat least one ...) Dino fan's that are total idiots.
It doesn't matter who you like... someone who likes Divine Heresy can be a cool guy, even though he likes DH.

It's really getting old when people think all Dime/Pantera fans are idiots...


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 10, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> Fuck You man , I'm a Dimebag fan, and I can name a couple Dino fan's that are total idiots.
> It doesn't matter who you like... someone who likes Divine Heresy can be a cool guy, even though he likes DH.
> 
> I'm not happy when people think all Dime/Pantera fans are idiots...


 
Oh no I don't think they all are I'm just sayin the hardcore ones I've seen/met/chatted with are pretty elitist like 'yeah Dimebag is the best evaaaarr'. I didn't mean it as an insult, I was just sayin thats another person I've seen from experience who is a cock and likes Dimebag. Maybe I'm digging myself a hole here, sorry anyway. 


Its the Nickleback fans you gotta watch out for anyway.


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 10, 2010)

It's all cool man 
I get your point... maybe I'm a bit oversensitive or something...


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 10, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> It's all cool man
> I get your point... maybe I'm a bit oversensitive or something...


 

 Lets kiss and make up...I mean...yes.


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 10, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Lets kiss and make up...



You're mistaking me with Stitch  LOL


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 10, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> You're mistaking me with Stitch  LOL


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

Shinto said:


> Calm down, you only posted here six times and you're already trying to get banned?
> At least don't be so condescending.


I may have only posted 6 times, but I've been lurking for quite a while. I don't do this to raise post counts. I thought I had some info that was useful to some people, so I shared what I had. Speaking of condescending did you read the post I was referring to. Its ok to anonymously slam somebody, but its not ok to slap back? I don't sweat getting banned, I'll just create a new user name, duh! I happen to like this board, and the one time I contribute somebodys got something to say. Its funny, The first thing you refer to is my post count. Sorry but I haven't the time to jack my post count up because Im actually playing my guitar, and entertaining people. I'll probably get banned for this to, cause speaking your mind here is apparently not allowed. Cheers


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Well that guy was a cunt. A Dimebag fan too...its always the Dimebag fans.
> 
> The tone on Bleed The Fifth is my fave Dino tone, though Mechanize has a nice low end.



Hey Mods this guy called me a cunt you gonna ban him to. Ok genius, I'm a dime fan but I go way more old school than that. I just happen to like the name Dimes BAG...get it. Now keep typin junior.


----------



## Shinto (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag, why do you always feel the need to cause trouble?
Bobo's post was a joke as mentioned (and hinted) before. Let's not forget that you completely threw the thread off-topic with a fairly vulgar comment.

ON TOPIC: you'll probably get close to his tone with a Vetta/POD, as mentioned previously.


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Speaking of condescending did you read the post I was referring to. Its ok to anonymously slam somebody, but its not ok to slap back?



What are you talking about? You flipped out at someone for jokingly telling Rick to suggest to Dino that they start making more groovy riffs.



dimesbag said:


> I don't sweat getting banned, I'll just create a new user name, duh!



That doesn't work if you get IP banned. Duh! I have a feeling you'll find this out soon enough, though.



dimesbag said:


> Hey Mods this guy called me a cunt you gonna ban him to. Ok genius, I'm a dime fan but I go way more old school than that. I just happen to like the name Dimes BAG...get it. Now keep typin junior.



Well, see, the difference here is that you flipped out on someone for no reason, whereas he was calling you a cunt because you were being a cunt.


----------



## Prydogga (Apr 11, 2010)

TomAwesome said:


> What are you talking about? You flipped out at someone for jokingly telling Rick to suggest to Dino that they start making more groovy riffs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



QFT, epic thread derail by Dimesbag by the way.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hey Mods this guy called me a cunt you gonna ban him to. Ok genius, I'm a dime fan but I go way more old school than that. I just happen to like the name Dimes BAG...get it. Now keep typin junior.


 
I'll be honest, I was expecting them to perma ban you.  Welcome back though everyone has missed you.

Anyway I'm not derailing this thread I'm not the argumentative type.

Anyone know what Dino used for Digimortal? That tone was epic.


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I'll be honest, I was expecting them to perma ban you.  Welcome back though everyone has missed you.
> 
> Anyway I'm not derailing this thread I'm not the argumentative type.
> 
> Anyone know what Dino used for Digimortal? That tone was epic.



Not sure...I did not see the digimortal tour, but according to guitargeek.com he was using a Flextone or a Pod Pro. Im sure you know this, but a good sound engineer can make the shittiest amp sound great(not that line 6 is shit). My engineer made my 6505+ sound like Lamb of God. If you can find a live recording of that tour listen to his tone there that will give you a better Idea.


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

Prydogga said:


> QFT, What are you talking about? You flipped out at someone for jokingly telling Rick to suggest to Dino that they start making more groovy riffs..



Hmm, I didn't take it that way when i saw "the next time you talk to Dino" comment, I took it as him telling me i was full of shit. 

I could be wrong though.......not the first time


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

Sorry about the derailing BTW. That wasn't my original intent. If you look at my original post. I get the feeling this might be more of an "exclusive club" than I thought. 

All the best to you.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Sorry about the derailing BTW. That wasn't my original intent. If you look at my original post. I get the feeling this might be more of an "exclusive club" than I thought.
> 
> All the best to you.


 
Its not an exclusive club at all man, you simply took a benign comment as an offense and ran with it, and ended up insulting more people. Just beware that because this is the internet theres not always a way of putting peoples comments into context, and something meant as one thing may mean another.

Just think about what you want to say and tone down the colourful language and you'll find the people here are some of the nicer people you'll find in forums.


----------



## cyril v (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Hmm, I didn't take it that way when i saw "the next time you talk to Dino" comment, I took it as him telling me i was full of shit.
> 
> I could be wrong though.......not the first time


Bobo was referring to Rick's post, not yours.. which is why he quoted him. This is also why your post didn't make sense to anyone else.


----------



## Triple-J (Apr 11, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Anyone know what Dino used for Digimortal? That tone was epic.



It was his 1st album after the now legendary modded JCM800 was stolen and he was using a POD pro into a Mesa tube power amp and a 2x12 (it may have been a 2x15) for the tour so I guess that's what was used on record?

It's also the 1st record Dino used a baritone 7 on too which is kind of funny as Stef Carpenter got the idea to use baritone 7's from Dino then years later COW based his sig off of Stef's and Stef bought him his amp rig too.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 11, 2010)

Triple-J said:


> It was his 1st album after the now legendary modded JCM800 was stolen and he was using a POD pro into a Mesa tube power amp and a 2x12 (it may have been a 2x15) for the tour so I guess that's what was used on record?
> 
> It's also the 1st record Dino used a baritone 7 on too which is kind of funny as Stef Carpenter got the idea to use baritone 7's from Dino then years later COW based his sig off of Stef's and Stef bought him his amp rig too.


 
Oh right sweet, cheers.


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

cyril v said:


> Bobo was referring to Rick's post, not yours.. which is why he quoted him. This is also why your post didn't make sense to anyone else.


Oh...hey maybe we go of on the wrong foot....I really shouldn't post when I'm all Scotched up


----------



## cyril v (Apr 11, 2010)

dimesbag said:


> Oh...hey maybe we go of on the wrong foot....I really shouldn't post when I'm all Scotched up


I dunno man, scotch is always a good idea IMO. 



Triple-J said:


> It was his 1st album after the now legendary modded JCM800 was stolen and he was using a POD pro into a Mesa tube power amp and a 2x12 (it may have been a 2x15) for the tour so I guess that's what was used on record?
> 
> It's also the 1st record Dino used a baritone 7 on too which is kind of funny as Stef Carpenter got the idea to use baritone 7's from Dino then years later COW based his sig off of Stef's and Stef bought him his amp rig too.



So the tones on the DH and the new FF cd is the Pods JCM 800 amp? I can't get that thing to sound 1/10th as badass as either cd.


----------



## dimesbag (Apr 11, 2010)

cyril v said:


> I dunno man, scotch is always a good idea IMO.
> 
> 
> I'm a single malt man myself......But I can't afford it half the time so I'll hit the Dewars or Chivas if I have to
> ...


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 11, 2010)

I saw Dino in Feb in London, and the tone was epic. Real tight. Even the 8 string (bearing in mind Byron tunes a octave down) sounded sweet.


----------



## Rick (Apr 11, 2010)

Triple-J said:


> It was his 1st album after the now legendary modded JCM800 was stolen and he was using a POD pro into a Mesa tube power amp and a 2x12 (it may have been a 2x15) for the tour so I guess that's what was used on record?
> 
> It's also the 1st record Dino used a baritone 7 on too which is kind of funny as Stef Carpenter got the idea to use baritone 7's from Dino then years later COW based his sig off of Stef's and Stef bought him his amp rig too.



Correct.  

I believe he used the Flextone heads to record Digimortal but that was his live rig at that time. 

And yes, the next time I talk to Dino, I'll let him know about more "groovy riffs."


----------



## Triple-J (Apr 11, 2010)

cyril v said:


> So the tones on the DH and the new FF cd is the Pods JCM 800 amp? I can't get that thing to sound 1/10th as badass as either cd.



In a Guitar World interview from around the time of Digimortal's release Dino said that he tried a bunch of different amps to replace his JCM800 and out of them all the Mesa and the POD sounded best but the POD had faster response time so he chose the POD.

Dino uses the patch that's based off the Mesa Rectifier not the JCM800 but it's worth bearing in mind that the POD in production back then (2001) had different models, I haven't used the older POD's as I have an X3 but I think it's the model that's called Line6Treadplate because in the X3 manual it states that this model was in the original POD.


----------



## Rick (Apr 11, 2010)

When he uses the Vetta II, he actually uses the Insane model.


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 11, 2010)

Rick said:


> When he uses the Vetta II, he actually uses the Insane model.



Really? Well shit. I had always assumed it was the Recto model. I think the Insane model was based loosely on a Recto anyway, though. I'm suddenly tempted to go mess with it on my POD.  Oh well.


----------



## Rick (Apr 11, 2010)

The last time DH played in Austin, Travis invited fans to come up on stage with them so of course, I did. I snuck a peek at his amp right before he turned it off.


----------



## TomAwesome (Apr 11, 2010)

Nice.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Apr 11, 2010)

cyril v said:


> I dunno man, scotch is always a good idea IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> So the tones on the DH and the new FF cd is the Pods JCM 800 amp? I can't get that thing to sound 1/10th as badass as either cd.



It's been said multiple times what was used on Mechanize, although 3/4ths of the people in this thread are just rambling about what he uses live and what he's used in the past for other albums instead...


----------



## Bobo (Apr 11, 2010)

Rick said:


> And yes, the next time I talk to Dino, I'll let him know about more "groovy riffs."



Just tell him some douche from the interwebz requested it lol. And when he doesn't like the idea, just tell him how Lynard Skynard must feel about Free Bird


----------



## Sebastian (Apr 12, 2010)

Rick said:


> And yes, the next time I talk to Dino, I'll let him know about more "groovy riffs."



NO


----------



## sepsis311 (Apr 12, 2010)

edited for fear of being banned


----------



## sol niger 333 (Apr 12, 2010)

He uses a frikkin laser beam


----------



## GrimKreeper (Jul 6, 2011)

I was at the Fear Factory show in San Diego last month and was especially pleased to see him running the Vetta II for three reasons: 1) it's the amp I'm using, 2) I love his tone, and 3) some tube snob I was talking to a while back said something to the effect of "No one big uses solid state, man." 

Someone above already asked this, but I feel it bears repeating: Does anyone have any idea how he has his presets set up on his Vetta?


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Jul 6, 2011)

holy necro-bump


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

Coryd said:


> Amp wise, I&#8217;m using a Line 6 Vetta II, I&#8217;ve been using all Line 6 products since back in the day and the reason I use the Line 6 is that I used to have a Marshall JCM 800, a modified head and it got stolen back in 1998. And the Line 6 is the only thing that comes close to replicating that original tone that I had in my Marshall. The Marshall had 6505 tubes in it which gave it more of a solid state type of tone which I was really into. And I use Mesa Boogie rectifier cabinets with the Line 6. Live, I mainly use the Line 6 with the rectifier cabs.



Mechanize sounds exactly like an AXE FX 1 recorded direct. I had the ultra - very easy to nail that type of tone. Thats prolly why i keep believing that... but it was prolly just a L6 used as a pre through a VHT power to a cab and through real mics - blended with some direct L6 as he says. 

But I am not sure if Dino is aware but the Axe FX 1 can easily do this sound direct and it sound pro. Messugahh uses Axe FXs for all their Studio and Live usage - always direct. And the tone off Mechanize is very similar to Mesugahh tones. 

The Axe FX is the only way to nail that sound if you don't have the patience or equipment to mike up Cabs for real. You guys might want to look into that it - its made by Fractal Audio. And since the Axe FX 2 is out now, the prices on Ultras have gone down significantly - and you don't even need mics or cabs! it shines best direct! And there is not a huge amp modeling difference between the AFX 1 up to the 2, ita only that the 2 has a dual processor and direct USB direct - but if you have a good converter - the ultra is fine and you can now get it cheap on ebay! 

But I was shocked when I learned Dino is still using Line 6. Those things are child's toys, and useless to use direct. The reason Dino gets good sound out of them is because he just runs them as preamp distortion boxes routed into a power amp and then to a cab and then there is like 2 mics on the cab in the studio and it goes through million dollar signal chains... and it goes to tape for the warmth - but the tubes in his VHT power amps make it so tight and big sounding. Line 6 does not have accurate modeling of the punch of power tubes. 

But Line 6 products run direct to DAW or direct to a mixing board is pretty much useless. L6 Converters are crap, and their cab modeling is a total abomination. B ut general Line 6 distortion for pre-amp usage is usable and can be nice and fat - but only if run to a real tube power amp like Dino does and then a real cab then real mics in proper rooms to proper pres and outboard gear to proper converters. 

But if you want good direct to the board tone out of a modeler, go with the Axe FX. 

At a venue, Dino's vetta was not going direct to the board, it was still on a cab and the mic was on the cab. You could tell there was audio coming out of the cab and miked up. There was too many tell tale signs. But sure, if Dino also uses L6 direct only for live, then yes, even a L6 direct to the board is likely going to sound better than a sound guy putting a mic in front of a cab and going to his board. LOL. But there is not a chance Dino uses L6 direct for albums. 

I am not sure why Dino does not use an Axe FX live and straight to the board. Mesuggah and so many other bands do this now and whoever does it has perfect live sound. 

But either way, no matter what simulator Dino uses, I am not sure if he will ever get his tone back from the FF Demanufacture or the Obsolete record - those were serious metal tones that were very unique! They don't make amps that sound quite like that no more.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 8, 2011)

First, if you take a look around, you'll find that the forum is very familiar with the Axe-FX. 

Second, Line 6 amps aren't useless direct. I was getting a pretty great sound out of my Vetta, and so have a lot of other people. When I saw Fear Factory touring for Mechanize, Dino was running the Vetta straight to the board with a cab just for stage monitoring, and it sounded fantastic. I thought Mechanize was just a Vetta straight into the board. If not, then ObZen is still a great example of Vettas going direct. They didn't have Axe-FXes until after recording that album. I think all their 8-string albums so far have been Line 6, and their bassist still uses a POD XT(?) Pro. Also, check out pretty much anything Joey Sturgis has produced.

Another reason I've heard Dino say he likes Line 6 is that the response is really fast. I figured out what he meant when I got a Vetta. I know that the Axe-FX can do this too with the proper tweaking, but Dino really seems to have found his Fear Factory sound with Line 6 and is probably pretty comfortable for the time being.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

GrimKreeper said:


> I was at the Fear Factory show in San Diego last month and was especially pleased to see him running the Vetta II for three reasons: 1) it's the amp I'm using, 2) I love his tone, and 3) some tube snob I was talking to a while back said something to the effect of "No one big uses solid state, man."




When the live sound miking techniques and sound gear of a venue is decent, Dino will likely run a L6 Pod X3 or send of a Vetta into a VHT Tube power amp, into a cab and into a dynamic mic (either an SM57 or a Heil PR30). 

When the live sound of a venue blows, Dino will resort to running the L6 stuff direct. 

And sure, I am not saying its that bad. Messugah used to do this before switching completely to Axe FX rigs. Heck, I even did it.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> Second, Line 6 amps aren't useless direct. I was getting a pretty great sound out of my Vetta, and so have a lot of other people.



Sorry, i shouldn't have worded it that way. I should have said - to me - not usable for a final product direct after I have heard the Axe FX direct. Sure, I mean, I love my Line 6 stuff to death for their workhorse ability, backup for live, and even as an occasional preamp before a power amp with tubes... and then mike up that beef into the cab... but again L6 direct cab modeling engines are not up to par neither is the modeling of Power Amp tubes. Sure L6 stuff is fast like a solid state amp reacts fast, but I have compared it extensively to an Axe FX and find that nothing is quite as lightning fast or as tight as the definition in the Axe FX. 

IMO Dino could perhaps get tighter punch sound and clarity if he used one of those live or studio to cabs or even direct in studio. I am surprised and shocked out of my mind that he does not. If he doesn't at least start using an AFX 2, then i am going to basically hang myself. lol



> When I saw Fear Factory touring for Mechanize, Dino was running the Vetta straight to the board with a cab just for stage monitoring, and it sounded fantastic.


I saw this exact setup in Toronto when he was here for Divine Heresy. Not a pleasant listening experience. Its as if someone screwed up and forgot to set up a wide stereo image. It sounded MONO. 



> I thought Mechanize was just a Vetta straight into the board. If not, then ObZen is still a great example of Vettas going direct.


Its common knowledge that his records are NOT L6 direct inject, they are L6 to Tube power amp to Cabinet to Dynamic microphones - to the studio's rack processing. He even said in those interview clips they blend in the direct signal a little bit. And for live he does it as a backup when not miking for whatever reasons. 



> They didn't have Axe-FXes until after recording that album.




The Axe FX has been around since 2006. Mechanize was released last year. LOL. 




> I think all their 8-string albums so far have been Line 6, and their bassist still uses a POD XT(?) Pro.


Ya for the bass pod maybe either live direct or to a cab in studio blended in with some direct. 



> Another reason I've heard Dino say he likes Line 6 is that the response is really fast. I figured out what he meant when I got a Vetta. I know that the Axe-FX can do this too with the proper tweaking,


The Axe FX is already extremely fast stock and super extremely tight with tweaking. (BTW, in the Axe you can filter out the low frequency distortion in the Amp internals to get it super tight.... and i am not sure if you are aware - but Dino is not an audio engineer by trade specialty - he is a guitar player.)



> but Dino really seems to have found his Fear Factory sound with Line 6 and is probably pretty comfortable for the time being.


If you are referring to the new Mesuggah influenced tones on Mechanize, ... sure, whatever but if you are referring to the sound from Demanufacture or the Obsolete album - *not a chance in hell. * He's never been able to get that sound back ever since that modded 800 was stolen. Not even close. Line 6 hasn't modeled anything sounding even remotely close to that. That 800 was light years better sounding than anything Dino has recorded since it was stolen. Are you feeling ok? LOL. 

As for the tones on Divine heresy, the amps on the last Divine Heresy do not sound tight like they do on Fear Factory albums. I am not sure what is going on with the tone on those... and i think i just read Dino saying Marshall MG solid state amps were used in the Divine heresy albums? LOL. Aren't those amps sold for like 200 bucks? WTF???!! LOL. Wow, these days you never know what a professional is going to tell all of us poor unwitting suckers looking to him for advice. But then again Van Halen lied to the gear interviewers all the time as he later revealed. 

The tone on the Divine Heresy albums is not my cup of tea. But the Fear Factory tones (especially the older ones) and older Brujeria tones were definitely more proper than the tone on Divine Heresy albums. I guess then maybe MGs were used on the DH albums after all.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 8, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Sorry, i shouldn't have worded it that way. I should have said - to me - not usable for a final product direct after I have heard the Axe FX direct. Sure, I mean, I love my Line 6 stuff to death for their workhorse ability, backup for live, and even as an occasional preamp before a power amp with tubes... and then mike up that beef into the cab... but again L6 direct cab modeling engines are not up to par neither is the modeling of Power Amp tubes. Sure L6 stuff is fast like a solid state amp reacts fast, but I have compared it extensively to an Axe FX and find that nothing is quite as lightning fast or as tight as the definition in the Axe FX.



Fair enough. I like both, but I can see where old Line 6 could be felt lacking compared to Fractal's products. The power amp modeling isn't really there, and the lack of cab options is disappointing, but I think it's still great for impossibly clean and impossibly distorted tones.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> I saw this exact setup in Toronto when he was here for Divine Heresy. Not a pleasant listening experience. Its as if someone screwed up and forgot to set up a wide stereo image. It sounded MONO.



Is a wide stereo image a good idea live? It might sound great to people in the center and far back, but everyone else will only be hearing part of what's going on.



ArsenalGuitars said:


> The Axe FX has been around since 2006. Mechanize was released last year. LOL.



I know. Hell, I had an Axe-FX before that album came out. I meant that Meshuggah wasn't using the Axe-FX until after Obzen was recorded.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> If you are referring to the new Mesuggah influenced tones on Mechanize, ... sure, whatever but if you are referring to the sound from Demanufacture or the Obsolete album - *not a chance in hell. * He's never been able to get that sound back ever since that modded 800 was stolen. Not even close. Line 6 hasn't modeled anything sounding even remotely close to that. That 800 was light years better sounding than anything Dino has recorded since it was stolen. Are you feeling ok? LOL.



I just mean that he has really made the Line 6 stuff his sound. The Axe-FX could probably get closer to his old JCM, but the Vetta is really working for him right now.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> As for the tones on Divine heresy, the amps on the last Divine Heresy do not sound tight like they do on Fear Factory albums. I am not sure what is going on with the tone on those... and i think i just read Dino saying Marshall MG solid state amps were used in the Divine heresy albums? LOL. Aren't those amps sold for like 200 bucks? WTF???!! LOL.



I think he was going for a different sound on that album. I thought it was tight enough. Whatever will get you the sound you're after is what you should use, regardless of cost. Wayne Static made pretty good use of Marshall MG amps, Dino and Sturgis still use old Line 6 modeling, and I hear Jimmy Page cut a few fairly popular albums with a shitty old department store amp.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> Is a wide stereo image a good idea live? It might sound great to people in the center and far back, but everyone else will only be hearing part of what's going on.



I think i saw the capability for the split in the X3 i had. Think of it as simulating a Jeff Hanneman on the left and Kerry King on the right kind of thing.... its like a pseudo stereo thing single guitar players can do to make their single source sound stereo..... it really sounds good. Its just an algorithm in any modeler. But the Eventide does it amazingly. (I have no idea why Dino doesn't use at least an H7600 for at least effects. He realy need some serious upgrades. LOL). 



> I know. Hell, I had an Axe-FX before that album came out. I meant that Meshuggah wasn't using the Axe-FX until after Obzen was recorded.


oh my bad. 




> I just mean that he has really made the Line 6 stuff his sound. The Axe-FX could probably get closer to his old JCM, but the Vetta is really working for him right now.


The L6 is phenomenal for keeping fat distortions tight. I will give it that. 




> I think he was going for a different sound on that album. I thought it was tight enough. Whatever will get you the sound you're after is what you should use, regardless of cost. Wayne Static made pretty good use of Marshall MG amps, Dino and Sturgis still use old Line 6 modeling, and I hear Jimmy Page cut a few fairly popular albums with a shitty old department store amp.


True. No harm intended... im just killing time on forums.. as I have nothing to do while I wait for the AFX 2. Its got a modded 800. (Hint...)


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 8, 2011)

Saw Asesino and Fear Factory about 3 weeks apart from each other at the same venue, Dino's tone was amazing both nights, ran straight into the PA, using a Mesa 4x12 (with Asesino) and then a Carvin Legacy 4x12 (with Fear Factory) just to monitor himself.

I talked to him a bit (always really cool and spots me before I spot him lol) and he mentioned he's going to change up his rig, I don't want to spoil his or Line 6's announcement, so just wait for it.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Jul 8, 2011)

Dino's tone on Digimortal and Divine Heresy 'Bleed The Fifth' are two of the best guitar tones imo. So fat and tight.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

ZOMB13 said:


> Saw Asesino and Fear Factory about 3 weeks apart from each other at the same venue, Dino's tone was amazing both nights, ran straight into the PA, using a Mesa 4x12 (with Asesino)




So then straight into the PA or not? LOL. You have not explained what was going on with the load. Or was it miked up? 


> and then a Carvin Legacy 4x12 (with Fear Factory) just to monitor himself.



You talking some direct loadbox or something on some cab like the Randalls have some option? In both cases you have not told us how the sound was being captured for feeding to the venue's monitors. Microphone transduction, or direct inject? 



> I talked to him a bit (always really cool and spots me before I spot him lol) and he mentioned he's going to change up his rig, I don't want to spoil his or Line 6's announcement, so just wait for it.



But how do we know its gonna be Line 6 stuff coming? I mean, a Pod HD? I tried that and I find more useful tones out of the X3 series. And the new JCM 800 in the Pod HD stuff is very weak and flabby... the bogner JCM 800 hybrid was absolutely killer in the X3, Vetta, pod Farm (they are all bascally the same engine) . But the new 800 in the HD stuff is definetly not a Dino sound by any means. It was a big letdown when I tried the HD floor board. Although the other amps were ok.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 8, 2011)

Slap that broken quote back together. He said Dino was going straight to the board with cabs for monitoring.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Dino's tone on Digimortal and Divine Heresy 'Bleed The Fifth' are two of the best guitar tones imo. So fat and tight.



Are you feeling ok? 

Dino would like to have his late ninties tone back. The one that was kidnapped. We all know it, its considered common knowledge in the metal tone world. He even said that when that amp was stolen, it was like losing a member of the band. he put that amp to the status of band member... I have never heard of any other band delegating this type of status to one of their pieces of gear. - not even the Axe FX! LOL. He has tried to endless ly go through amp mods after but with no luck so he gave up. 

That amp went through the best series mods from the best amp mod man Jose Arrendondo who also modded amps for Van Halen. And when Dino got it stock initially, it was just a good mid tone amp from marshall back in 82 or whenever it was built. They simply don't make amps with those kinds of mean heavy mids no more. We cannot debate how sick the mids on Demanufacture sound, nor how clean and defined the distortion on Obsolete sounds. The most ideal Fear Factory sound to me, would be to have the mids off the former and the distortion off the latter. That would be the most ultimate tone IMO. But that amp was like a band member. 

I am hopeful that the Axe FX 2 will be able to nail it. I just have no way of knowing yet with this long waiting list for the item.



TomAwesome said:


> Slap that broken quote back together. He said Dino was going straight to the board with cabs for monitoring.


 Zomb 13 will have to explain what he means. I am totally lost on the attempt to explain the signal chain as it seems incompletely relayed over to us. 

Perhaps straight to the board from another loadbox and another amp to the cab for monitoring? 

Or one of his tube heads to a loadbox with DI and then to some IR engine while another is to the monitoring cab. In other words a parallel split from the Send of a real amp to two separate destinations and one end going to some IR engine? (Hes got tons of 800s, which he has tried getting modded the same way as his old one - to no successful avail).

Or the split of the signal for the acceptance of the direct signal into some IR engine perhaps for Direct inject to the board while perhaps the other end goes to a wedge meanwhile the cabs could be a dummy. 

Or perhaps splitting the signal and having the cab for monitoring while some POD direct out (post L6 IR engine) feeds to the board. There are tons of configurations. Endless possibilities.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 8, 2011)




----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 8, 2011)

The bottom line is that Dino even told me directly that he has tried to have other 800s modded to try to get his sound of his old head unit back. And he has never been successful. So he gave up trying. Because Jose was not even alive anymore to do that magic to amps. 

His switch to Line 6 was a completely different move into another direction due to the fact that the modded 800 that has never come back is a very elusive sound to try to nail - possibly forever obsolete.


----------



## Rick (Jul 9, 2011)

But he still gets a tone that he really likes so what's the difference? 

And yes, he does know about the Axe FX, he was trying to sell one recently that he had.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 9, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Zomb 13 will have to explain what he means. I am totally lost on the attempt to explain the signal chain as it seems incompletely relayed over to us



Let me make it really clear for you man.


> Saw Asesino and Fear Factory about 3 weeks apart from each other at the same venue, Dino's tone was amazing both nights, *ran straight into the PA*, using a Mesa 4x12 (with Asesino) and then a Carvin Legacy 4x12 (with Fear Factory) just to monitor himself.
> 
> I talked to him a bit (always really cool and spots me before I spot him lol) and he mentioned he's going to change up his rig, I don't want to spoil his or *Line 6*'s announcement, so just wait for it.



Re-read as many times as possible.

Don't over complicate something so simple as
Vetta II > direct out > house PA
No mics, no direct boxes or loadboxes or IRs or whatever, it's just as simple as that listed above man.

He is still going to use Line 6 stuff because it get's his tone.

Dino would go back to using modded JCM 800s if it wasn't for the convenience of Line 6 gear and simplicity of it, and obviously you are not Dino, so he dials in HIS tone differently on the same gear you just mentioned so that works for HIM.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Jul 9, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Are you feeling ok?
> 
> Dino would like to have his late ninties tone back. The one that was kidnapped. We all know it, its considered common knowledge in the metal tone world. He even said that when that amp was stolen, it was like losing a member of the band. he put that amp to the status of band member... I have never heard of any other band delegating this type of status to one of their pieces of gear. - not even the Axe FX! LOL. He has tried to endless ly go through amp mods after but with no luck so he gave up.
> 
> ...



Yes I'm feeling okay, am I not allowed to have a different opinion to guitar tones to you? You have been very condescending with some of your posts, and there is no need for it. Tone is ultimately subjective, and Dino is going to try and get whatever tone he likes in however way he pleases. He could get an Axe-FX very easily and use that if he wanted to, but he obviously prefers Line 6. Bleed The Fifth and Mechanize sounded brilliant to me (I wasn't as keen on Bringer of Plagues) and having seen Fear Factory live twice I can attest to their live sound being very good. Yes, he has said he very much misses that 800 and hasn't been able to get the same sound since, so he has just had to try different things. 

You are obviously an Axe-FX fan and thats fine, but there's no need to be so forceful of your opinions on a pretty subjective matter. Dino does what he wants, you do what you want.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

Rick said:


> But he still gets a tone that he really likes so what's the difference?



In that case no difference. 



> And yes, he does know about the Axe FX, he was trying to sell one recently that he had.


HAH! I knew it all along. Mechanize has Fractal Audio written all over its sonic signature. Those are the midrange characteristics of an Axe FX. The second I heard it i knew it all along as its got that hyper-fat and thick quality. And Dino's prolly selling one because the Axe FX 2 is coming out. (he prolly had 2 Ultras anyways and is likely keeping one of them). But Mechanize was definetly recorded with an Axe FX Ultra prolly due to the fact Dino must have took Mesugahhs advice or something like that. 

And ya, same here, I already sold my Axe FX ultra the second the AFX2 announcement came out... and I gained back the majority of my investment. The second one coming has one of its models being the 800 with THE mod in it. Go to Fractal's website and download the manual for the AFX 2 and look on page 40. Its based on the mod by yours truly. 

An 800 with a Jose Arredondo mod in the Axe FX 2 sounds like it should surely be the late 90s FF tone to me. But I am also allowing for the possibility that i might be wrong. We could also be met with severe disappointment as we can never be 100% sure what Jose did to Dino's original 800.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Yes I'm feeling okay, am I not allowed to have a different opinion to guitar tones to you? You have been very condescending with some of your posts, and there is no need for it.



I obviously didn't mean it that way. WHo knows, maybe I could be wrong. But I seriously don't think his switch to pods through power amps on Digimortal sounded as good. But I am allowing the possibility for you to be right that Digimortal and Divine Heresy has better tones. And I could be the one who is ill here then. I am open-minded in this regard, but please do not say I am being condescending considering this admission to possible error that I just made right here. 





> Tone is ultimately subjective, and Dino is going to try and get whatever tone he likes in however way he pleases. He could get an Axe-FX very easily and use that if he wanted to, but he obviously prefers Line 6.


You could be right regarding the first Axe FX... but regarding the second generation Axe FX 2 coming out, I bet you anything Dino will switch from Line 6 to Fractal. Unless the Pod HD pro coming out might have some surprises up its sleeve. But I doubt it will have the 800 hot rod since the L6HD floor and bean does not. And the cab sims in the HD series is a massive let down... so if the HD pro doesn't have user cab import functionality, it will not sell well. 



> Bleed The Fifth and Mechanize sounded brilliant to me (I wasn't as keen on Bringer of Plagues) and having seen Fear Factory live twice I can attest to their live sound being very good. Yes, he has said he very much misses that 800 and hasn't been able to get the same sound since, so he has just had to try different things.


Tone might be subjective... i even allow for the posibility of this, but regarding FF's live sound... i think it was ok once in Toronto... i don't know, depends on the sound guy... since theres only one guitar player in the band the live sound tech needs to do a pseudo stereo split, because mono sounds like crap to me. Thats why 99.9 percent of metal CDs are recorded guitar left and recorded seperately for guitar tracks panned right. Once I saw Fear Factory in Toronto and it sounded pretty wide and spacious, prolly due to proper sound tech... but when I saw DH in a crappier venue here, drums sounded fine, vocals fine since vocals are ok mono... but guitars were also mono which was unacceptable for today's live sound standards. It was just irritating and lacked dimension. Metal is a very tough form of music to get to sound proper, and if the live sound aint on the ball, then the sound becomes a disaster considering how noisy this type of music is to begin with. Fine audio is required for the busy sounds in metal recordings and performances. 



> You are obviously an Axe-FX fan and thats fine, but there's no need to be so forceful of your opinions on a pretty subjective matter. Dino does what he wants, you do what you want.


Actually, I am not a huge fan of the Axe FX 1, but a fan for sure for its Messugah type fat sounds... but I dont really use those Messugah or Mechanize style sounds. I use 90s metal sounds... but the 90s metal sounds are severely lacking in the first generation Axe FX. So I can't say I was the hugest fan of it for my needs. 

But I have extremely high expectations for the AFX 2. And i think odds are Dino will switch to it if the 90s metal sounds sound proper, cause those other fat ones obviously do - and certainly did on the album Mechanize - which wreaks of the aural characteristics of the AFX. You can smell that from light years away.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 10, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> And i think odds are Dino will switch to it



Looks like you didn't read or just ignored my post.

Prepare for Dino to show his new rig AND Line 6 to make an announcement soon (as in, Line 6 gear related)


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

ZOMB13 said:


> Looks like you didn't read or just ignored my post.
> 
> Prepare for Dino to show his new rig AND Line 6 to make an announcement soon (as in, Line 6 gear related)



Van Halen also told people one thing but would actually use something else. He also heavily relied on the practice of using decoys. And only very late in his career did he reveal that he was purposely lying to people. 

Endorsements are all about money - not about truth. Otherwise, sure, keep believing that Kerry King saying that his signature 800 head is a clone of all the components and values of his best marshall 800. Good luck with that belief! 

Please go research the way marketing and advertising actually works with regards to endorsements. Thanks.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Jul 10, 2011)

What was that about you not being condescending?


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 10, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> HAH! I knew it all along. Mechanize has Fractal Audio written all over its sonic signature. Those are the midrange characteristics of an Axe FX. The second I heard it i knew it all along as its got that hyper-fat and thick quality. And Dino's prolly selling one because the Axe FX 2 is coming out. (he prolly had 2 Ultras anyways and is likely keeping one of them). But Mechanize was definetly recorded with an Axe FX Ultra prolly due to the fact Dino must have took Mesugahhs advice or something like that.



That in no way proves that the Axe-FX was used on that album. If he's selling his, and if what ZOMB13 said is true, then it seems like he still prefers Line 6 over Fractal.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> Actually, I am not a huge fan of the Axe FX 1, but a fan for sure for its Messugah type fat sounds... but I dont really use those Messugah or Mechanize style sounds. I use 90s metal sounds... but the 90s metal sounds are severely lacking in the first generation Axe FX. So I can't say I was the hugest fan of it for my needs.
> 
> But I have extremely high expectations for the AFX 2. And i think odds are Dino will switch to it if the 90s metal sounds sound proper, cause those other fat ones obviously do - and certainly did on the album Mechanize - which wreaks of the aural characteristics of the AFX. You can smell that from light years away.



How is it lacking? What kind of 90s metal sounds are you after that you can't get with the Axe-FX? There are more than enough amps to choose from, and it's not nearly as limited in its range of tones as Line 6 is. Actually, the only 90s metal tone I can think of that couldn't be approximated with an Axe-FX is the Line 6 sound. The Axe-FX 2 at this point seems to be only a marginal upgrade from the current generation Axe-FX units. I'm sure it will improve in time, but there's no reason that if you get along well with modelers you shouldn't be able to get what you're looking for out of the existing Axe-FX. Based on that and what you said before about Vettas, I think your problem with both pieces of gear is that you haven't quite gotten the hang of dialing things in right. If you find the Axe-FX lacking and unsatisfactory for your needs, I'm pretty sure you'll find similar disappointment in the Axe-FX 2.

But it seems like you've decided what you want to believe about things and really don't want to listen to anything anyone says to the contrary.


----------



## Kamikaze7 (Jul 10, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> ...I think he was going for a different sound on that album. I thought it was tight enough. Whatever will get you the sound you're after is what you should use, regardless of cost. Wayne Static made pretty good use of Marshall MG amps, Dino and Sturgis still use old Line 6 modeling, and I hear Jimmy Page cut a few fairly popular albums with a shitty old department store amp.



Actually, Wayne Static has (and I believe he still is...) using an original 200 Watt Valvestate head, which is way better than the 100 watt or the MG seies heads. The 200 Watt original is very unadulterated in it's tone. 

Also, I for one am sure that the AFX is a killer piece and capable of producing some really sick tones, but I for one am not about to spend more than double what my truck is worth or more than I make in 2 months time for something like that...  I'd rather turn around and either use that same amount of cash for either an ESP Stef-B7 in the see-thru green, or a Horizon NT-7. I am more than happy with the Vetta and the tones it has. In fact, it's one of very few things that's given me a tone similar to the JMP-1 I used to have even at a lower, in the house volume level. And granted the AFX is capable of running without the need for a power amp and can run direct and everything else, I find that the Vetta's are just as capable and for a lot less money. Does this mean that the Vetta is better than or can hold a candle to the AFX 1/2/Ultra, no. But the Vetta is no slouch either in what it can do and is capable of either. In fact, I like to think of the Vetta as the poor man's AFX. 

Dino has been using the L6 stuff since his Marshall got stolen, we all know that. His tone has been very similar in what ever way he's done to get it close to his old amp over the years and has come a long way with the L6 stuff to do it. While it's arguably tough to be able to get the EXACT tone of his old 800 that was used on all the older FF & Brujeria stuff, the newer tone he's gotten on the DH and Mechanize is still very tight, and very closely resembles the tone he had I think. I will also agree that you'll use whatever you need to to be able to get a certain sound, regardless of price. Because more expensive is and does NOT always mean better in some cases... So if Dino is more satisfied and capable of getting a tone he likes and is happy with from an L6 Vetta, so be it. 

Just like was mentioned that tone is different for you as it is me, the same applies to every musician out there... If it gets us the tone and sound we want, then what does it matter what it is or who it's made by and how much it costs??? As long as we are happy with the tone we have and like, than that's all that's important, and Dino is no exception to that.

And in response to Zomb13's news of the L6 news, that is something I'll be keeping an eye out for indefinitely...  Thanks for that update man!!!


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 10, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Van Halen also told people one thing but would actually use something else. He also heavily relied on the practice of using decoys. And only very late in his career did he reveal that he was purposely lying to people.
> 
> Endorsements are all about money - not about truth. Otherwise, sure, keep believing that Kerry King saying that his signature 800 head is a clone of all the components and values of his best marshall 800. Good luck with that belief!
> 
> Please go research the way marketing and advertising actually works with regards to endorsements. Thanks.



WTF lol!
Dino has done that before with the ToneBlaster series amps, but it doesn't take a fucking genius to realize he was helping Ibanez out (who also makes his guitars) and the fact that live, you could spot his actual gear. He still has the ToneBlaster amps iirc.

Bottom line is, whether you like it or not (and it seems your are set on believing Dino used an Axe FX and will switch to the Axe FX II without ANY source or proof whatsoever) Dino likes Line 6 gear and from what he told me, will continue to use Line 6 gear, but then again, I only see Dino when he plays near my hometown, so anything can change from that point to now.

Either way, you'll reply with some condescending remark about everyone else, stuff about you this and you that and what Dino wants for his tone....


----------



## xCaptainx (Jul 10, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Endorsements are all about money - not about truth. Otherwise, sure, keep believing that Kerry King saying that his signature 800 head is a clone of all the components and values of his best marshall 800. Good luck with that belief!
> 
> Please go research the way marketing and advertising actually works with regards to endorsements. Thanks.



HAHAH! I'm endorsed by B.C Rich Guitars and sorting out a local endorsement with Line 6. You're post amused me Thanks for educating me on my own endorsement deals.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> What was that about you not being condescending?



What specific examples can you show that condescending behavior has occurred in this dialogue?


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> That in no way proves that the Axe-FX was used on that album.



Wreaks of it to me. But thats just my opinion. I hear Axe FX on mechanize. Sound exactly like Messugah. But I never said I have proof. I just believe it because I personally know the characteristics, but I could be wrong. But I have good reason to believe it for myself. 



> If he's selling his, and if what ZOMB13 said is true, then it seems like he still prefers Line 6 over Fractal.


Who knows if he's even really selling it, or if hes selling it because the Axe FX 2 is out... (he probabily sold his old Pods and stuff too when new ones came)... who knows how many he has, etc... reasoning not clear. We can never know. Dino does not have the type of information to give out the precious details about his rig. 




> The Axe-FX 2 at this point seems to be only a marginal upgrade from the current generation Axe-FX units. I'm sure it will improve in time, but there's no reason that if you get along well with modelers you shouldn't be able to get what you're looking for out of the existing Axe-FX. Based on that and what you said before about Vettas, I think your problem with both pieces of gear is that you haven't quite gotten the hang of dialing things in right. If you find the Axe-FX lacking and unsatisfactory for your needs, I'm pretty sure you'll find similar disappointment in the Axe-FX 2.


No worries. 



> But it seems like you've decided what you want to believe about things and really don't want to listen to anything anyone says to the contrary.


Do I irritate you and others in here because I believe 100% that Dino used an Axe FX on mechanize?


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

xCaptainx said:


> HAHAH! I'm endorsed by B.C Rich Guitars and sorting out a local endorsement with Line 6. You're post amused me Thanks for educating me on my own endorsement deals.



No problem. What is the name of your band?


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 10, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> What specific examples can you show that condescending behavior has occurred in this dialogue?



You are being condescending. We shouldn't have to point out specifics. Reread your own posts. Saying, "I'm not being condescending," doesn't mean you're not.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> Mechanize[...] Sound exactly like Messugah.



Well, if both of them were using Vettas in the studio, that would make sense.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> Who knows if he's even selling it, or if hes selling it because the Axe FX 2 is out... (he probabily sold his old Pods and stuff too)... who knows how many he has, etc... reasoning not clear. We can never know.



Right. So stop acting like you know.




ArsenalGuitars said:


> Do I irritate you and others in here because I believe 100% that Dino used an Axe FX on mechanize?



You're irritating us because you're being pushy, over-insistent, and condescending about your certainty of things you have no way of knowing.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 10, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


> You are being condescending. We shouldn't have to point out specifics. Reread your own posts. Saying, "I'm not being condescending," doesn't mean you're not.



No, I just can't find where I was. Having an honest opinion amounts to being condescending? 

You are being too oversensitive. Chill out. 



> Well, if both of them were using Vettas in the studio, that would make sense.


Messugah dropped Line 6 when the Axe FX came out. So I have no idea what you are talking about. But who knows, maybe a vetta was used on Mechanize. But its not what I hear. But if it was, it was used to a cab and miked up. But all i know is that Line 6 direct inject technology was definetly NOT used on it, because Line 6 doesn't have good quality converters. This is not being condescending, it is a well known fact. 

If direct Inject technology was used, it was an Axe FX. Because I can hear it in the sonic signature. It has that surreal quality to the converters. But again, I could be in error. 




> Right. So stop acting like you know.


I am not acting like i know. I am making logical inferences as to what is likely and what is not. I feel i have good reasoning in my beliefs. You are free to disagree, but wow, talk about a bigoted, intolerant few members responding to me in this manner. Clearly I am not welcome to post my honest opinion in this thread. 



> You're irritating us because you're being pushy, over-insistent, and condescending about your certainty of things you have no way of knowing.


I feel I am helping the OP by giving him well-informed estimates based on what I hear. Yet I have always clarified and admitted I could be wrong. So therefore, your mis-representing my position as all those things you just mentioned - especially "condescending". Nothing could be further from the truth.


----------



## Rick (Jul 11, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Mechanize has Fractal Audio written all over its sonic signature. Those are the midrange characteristics of an Axe FX. The second I heard it i knew it all along as its got that hyper-fat and thick quality. And Dino's prolly selling one because the Axe FX 2 is coming out. (he prolly had 2 Ultras anyways and is likely keeping one of them). But Mechanize was definetly recorded with an Axe FX Ultra prolly due to the fact Dino must have took Mesugahhs advice or something like that.



Mechanize was not recorded with an Axe FX, he told me himself.


----------



## xCaptainx (Jul 11, 2011)

I think you best google meshuggah - studio albums and realise just how many albums were recorded using line 6 gear. You'd be suprised. 

Also - bands routinely use all sorts of different gear in the studio. Dino used a 5150 and about 3 other bands for the Divine Heresy albums. 

p.s most people generally use FACTS when making such large statements as you do. You've clearly shown you have no idea what you're talking about regarding endorsments. From that, I can logically conclude you have no idea what you're talking about when GUESSING who uses what gear in the studio. 

btw since you asked, I play in the following bands. 

In Dread Response

Molest The Episcopate

Would love to hear your crazy guesses as to what gear I used in the studio, haha.


----------



## xCaptainx (Jul 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> Mechanize was not recorded with an Axe FX, he told me himself.



boo-yah


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 11, 2011)

Dino Cazares: 'What We Are Doing Now Is Traditional Fear Factory Sound' | Interviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com



Dino said:


> Amp wise, Im using a Line 6 Vetta II. [...] And I use Mesa Boogie rectifier cabinets with the Line 6. Live, I mainly use the Line 6 with the rectifier cabs.



Guitar Messenger  Mårten Hagström Interview (Meshuggah)



Mårten Hagström interview said:


> *IC:* I want to talk a little bit about the gear you use live and on obZen. Did you use your Line6 amps on this record?
> 
> *MH*: Yeah. We basically plug straight in to the Line 6 and use the cab that we mic, and then we get the simulator to fade in by just plugging straight in  so we have two signals.
> 
> When actually got around to record, we really early on realized that we would not be able to use the miced sound, because the cabinets were crapping out whenever we went to the really low stuff with palm muting. It actually worked out better to just do it from the straight signal, you know? But its been Line 6 for most of the time.



So from the horses' mouths, Mechanize was a Vetta II run through a cab and miced, and ObZen was a Vetta II direct. Can we stop arguing about it now?


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 11, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Do I irritate you and others in here because I believe 100% that Dino used an Axe FX on mechanize?





> Messugah dropped Line 6 when the Axe FX came out. So I have no idea what you are talking about. But who knows, maybe a vetta was used on Mechanize. *But its not what I hear*. But if it was, it was used to a cab and miked up. *But all i know is that Line 6 direct inject technology was definetly NOT used on it*, because Line 6 doesn't have good quality converters. This is not being condescending, *it is a well known fact*.
> 
> *If direct Inject technology was used, it was an Axe FX*. Because *I* can hear it in the sonic signature. It has that surreal quality to the converters. But again, I could be in error.



[email protected]  facts/personal tone preference do not matter to you, you want to believe the Axe Fx was used on a record which has been proven (even straight from Dino himself) that there was NO Axe Fx, just inferior amp technology that should not sound that good.

TomAwesome's post should clear things up even more, but you won't bother caring.

Thread might be heading towards lock land...


----------



## vampiregenocide (Jul 11, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> No, I just can't find where I was. Having an honest opinion amounts to being condescending?
> 
> You are being too oversensitive. Chill out.
> 
> I feel I am helping the OP by giving him well-informed estimates based on what I hear. Yet I have always clarified and admitted I could be wrong. So therefore, your mis-representing my position as all those things you just mentioned - especially "condescending". Nothing could be further from the truth.


 
You probably can't see where you've been condescending from all the way up there on your high horse. But I assure you, you are.


----------



## Rick (Jul 11, 2011)

I was just gonna post the text convo D and I just had but it's pointless now.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> I was just gonna post the text convo D and I just had but it's pointless now.



About how he used an Axe FX on Digimortal?


----------



## Rick (Jul 11, 2011)

ZOMB13 said:


> About how he used an Axe FX on Digimortal?



No. On SOANM. 

Duh.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 11, 2011)

Demanufacture was a POD 2.0. The secret is out.


----------



## Rick (Jul 11, 2011)

God, Tom, thanks for ruining it.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 11, 2011)

Rick said:


> Mechanize was not recorded with an Axe FX, he told me himself.



LOL. ROTFKNIG LOL!!! Van Halen told his fans all kinds of stuff. Kerry King is also King as BS-ing gear. So I am not even gonna say anything further.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 11, 2011)

What is your deal, dude?  At this point, I'm assuming troll, in which case, nicely done getting a couple pages of attention.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 11, 2011)

xCaptainx said:


> I think you best google meshuggah - studio albums and realise just how many albums were recorded using line 6 gear. You'd be suprised.



Thats because they have been around for a long time. But you know very well what has been used in all the recent ones since the axe fx era.




> p.s most people generally use FACTS when making such large statements as you do. You've clearly shown you have no idea what you're talking about regarding endorsments.



You don't have a bigtime endorsement, You have the same endorsement millions of other bands have. So you are the one who clearly does not know what a big time endorsement entails, and all the bullshit surrounding it. 



> From that, I can logically conclude you have no idea what you're talking about when GUESSING who uses what gear in the studio.



You are contradicting yourself and only proving that i know endorsed gear (at least the commercially released gear that is endorsed) is usually not used in the studio - and that custom gear and different gear is used. So thanks for proving my point and contradicting yourself. 





> btw since you asked, I play in the following bands.
> 
> In Dread Response
> 
> ...



I've never heard of any of these acts. But I do wish you luck with them.



TomAwesome said:


> What is your deal, dude?  At this point, I'm assuming troll, in which case, nicely done getting a couple pages of attention.



Please do not harass members with words like troll. I am, not trolling - i am responding to the OP in a civilized manner with advice that I believe is helpful to his decision making on nailing the Mechanize tone. I am not saying its a fact. I could be wrong. But I have every right to believe this, and should not be labeled as a troll when i clarify that I could be wrong. 

All I am saying is that if it was LINE 6, then it was recorded Cabs with Line 6 as pres or a vetta to a cab - but MIKED UP. All I am saying is that if it was direct, then it was an Axe FX because only an axe fx direct sounds like the real thing. JEEEZZZZ.



TomAwesome said:


> Dino Cazares: 'What We Are Doing Now Is Traditional Fear Factory Sound' | Interviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do you know? Were you at the recording session? Anyone can say anything.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jul 11, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> Please do not harass members with words like troll. I am, not trolling - i am responding to the OP in a civilized manner with advice that I believe is helpful to his decision making on nailing the Mechanize tone.


----------



## ArsenalGuitars (Jul 11, 2011)

TomAwesome said:


>





Thanks for posting that. I can make more sense of what gibberish has been attempted by the star of the video than the what you have been attempting here.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jul 12, 2011)

ArsenalGuitars said:


> All I am saying is that if it was direct, then it was an Axe FX because only an axe fx direct sounds like the real thing. JEEEZZZZ



Are you fucking kidding me?    

This guy is so far up his Axe FX's ass that he refuses to believe what Dino said he used on the record and uses live!


----------



## technomancer (Jul 12, 2011)

Everyone here knows Rick is Dino's biggest stalker and wants to have his man-babies, you can trust what he says about Dino

ArsenalGuitars can take a nap for trolling

The rest of you should probably get a nap for being idiots and feeding the trolls but I'll let it go this time


----------

