# 7 string tuning for djent and djazz?



## TylerEstes

So I have a 7 string with a 25.5 in scale length and was about to tune to drop A (a-e-a-d-g-b-e) with my strings being 62-52-42-30-17-13-10 but the tension was too high and I couldn't tune the strings to those notes because they'd break. What's a good tuning for 7 string that I can use for some djent type stuff as well as jazz?

EDIT: I just realized that what I just tried is just standard tuning with a low A because I'm....slow. I used to play in drop C (c-g-c-f-a-d). Would that be good for jazz? Sorry if that's a no0b question, I'm still very new to jazz. Jazz.

I just tried A-C-F#-C on the low strings (can't go any higher than F#) and it sounds pretty terrible. I'm sure they don't go together, but I don't know what strings go to what tuning or anything like that.


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## TheKindred

Jazz.

jazz.

Jazz.

Any tuning is good for any music. It's all just vibrations, man. Do whatever you want with them.


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## TylerEstes

TheKindred said:


> Jazz.
> 
> jazz.
> 
> Jazz.
> 
> Any tuning is good for any music. It's all just vibrations, man. Do whatever you want with them.



Oh okay. I wasn't sure if one tuning would be bad for it or not. Like standard tuning really wouldn't suit most types of music that I listen to but it would with others.


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## jeremyc

TylerEstes said:


> So I have a 7 string with a 25.5 in scale length and was about to tune to drop A (a-e-a-d-g-b-e) with my strings being 62-52-42-30-17-13-10 but the tension was too high and I couldn't tune the strings to those notes because they'd break.
> 
> 
> I'm confused - you cant tune to standard tuning with the low A on the bottom? I had a longer scale 7 with heavier strings that handled that tuning with no problem. They do tend to break if you are tuning them up and down a few times, but that tuning should be fine for those gauges.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are calling 'jazz' but you might want to consider leaving the 'regular' 6 strings in normal tuning and tuning the 7th to A or B depending on your preference. There is a lot of material out there for guitars tuned that way (chord and scale fingerings).
> 
> You also may consider tuning your guitar to all 4ths - A-D-G-C-F-Bb-Eb or something similar - that way your chord and scale fingerings will be consistent from one string group to the next


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## rockskate4x

There is something wrong with your guitar if you are breaking those strings before reaching E standard/drop A. 10-52 sets feel a bit tight in standard but strings shouldn't be breaking. Where are the strings breaking? At the tuner? At the bridge saddle? Are any specific strings breaking more than others?


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## Daken1134

i hate when people call it "djazz" just because you're playing something on a clean channel doesnt make it jazz, but that aside ide say drop A is a good endeavor, (A-E-A-D-G-B-E) not only do you obviously get allot of your heavy songs but allot of jazz players who use 7's play it with the B dropped down to A (including myself) it alows you when playing root 5 chords you can use the low A as the root and it fills in allot of sonic ground.


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## InfinityCollision

I use 11-70 for B standard on my 7. Most serious jazz guys are running 13s or higher in standard tuning. Why are your light gauge strings breaking in drop A?

Drop A is fine for jazz.


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## chassless

i'm assuming the strings that break are your higher strings ?
high strings of light gauge are more likely to break precisely because they are of light gauge.

but a 10 or 13 tuned to E or B on 25.5" shouldn't break. do you stretch new strings well when you install them ?

Edit : just want to add this here because it's related to topic, and pretty awesome :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9aAaK6KzHE


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## Rojne

Try a set of .10-.46 + .62 for strings and tune to Drop A ( A E A D G B e), probably the most useable and convenient tuning for playing jazz on a 7 string!

And if your strings are breaking tuning to standard then there's something wrong with your guitar!


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## cereal_guy

I honestly hope 'djazz' becomes a thing


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## wat

Why the hell are you strings breaking?


Standard tuning with a low A (in other words, Drop A) is perfect with the strings you're using.


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## Mike

a .062 tuned to A on a 25.5 is roughly only 15 lbs. of tension. Many would actually consider that to be a little on the floppy side, especially for the bass side.

Sounds like you might have something else causing your string problems.

Edit: Actually the problem is your .052, .042, and .030. Those are all way too big for what you're trying to tune to. They're each over 24 lbs.

Edit 2: If you are dead set on using those strings for a playable tuning, B,D,F,A#,G,B,D# would work wonderfully though I have no idea what you would play in that tuning.


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## InfinityCollision

Mike said:


> Edit: Actually the problem is your .052, .042, and .030. Those are all way too big for what you're trying to tune to. They're each over 24 lbs.



Those tensions are pretty common for jazz, acoustic, and also in some blues circles, to say nothing of bass tensions. There are guitarists who run even higher tensions (think 14s and 15s). Alex Skolnick uses 13s in standard for Testament these days. It shouldn't be the strings.


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## Mike

Yes that may be, but I can understand from his perspective, for a guitarist coming from more metal and rock styles to playing jazz, anything over 20 lbs. will definitely start to feel like its at the breaking threshold.

Either way though typically progressive or balanced tension are what people are accustomed to and his set was all over the place tension-wise in drop A.


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## InfinityCollision

Ah, I see what you're saying now. I assumed he'd actually broken the strings trying to tune up.


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## straightshreddd

Those strings are fine for drop A. I just think you're not used to higher tension. 

He said "they'd break" implying that he thinks they'll break because the tension feels high to him. 

Any tuning or strings are fine for jazz, however higher gauges/tension is the norm for that bassy, deep tone jazz is known for.

Your strings won't break, but if you don't like how high the tension is, just lower the gauge down to 9's. However, 10's should be fine, bud. Shit, I play 11's with a low .066 or .068 on 27" scale. My old guitar teacher swore by 12's and Inifinty's right about the serious jazz guys playing 13's and higher. 

The higher gauges will help for when you play those alternate picked runs through the progressions. The extra tension will also help for when you're transitioning chord shapes quickly because they don't move around and f*ck up the pitch. However, bending won't be super easy as with the smaller gauges. Still very possible, but whole step bending and vibrato will require a tad bit more effort. It'll strengthen your fingers.


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## Svava

cereal_guy said:


> I honestly hope 'djazz' becomes a thing



Animals as Leaders.


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## wat

Those strings are actually ideal for what you're doing. It's basically a "light top/skinny bottom" set with an extra .062. IMO, you might wanna go a little heavier on the low string though, you might custom order some .068 for that low A.


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## Forrest_H

I haven't played around with string gauges on my 7 since I've not been able to leave the house to pick up new strings, but drop A should be good for djent and jazz. I don't play jazz at all, but I play a lot of clean stuff in Drop A. Probably not a very helpful reply, but I hope it helps a little bit


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## ElRay

I'd go with all M3rds: E-C-Ab-E-C-Ab-E.

You won't get extended range, or chugging lows, but you will get two full octaves in one position, you'll be able to play denser chords, you'll have a regular tuning that is really good for scale runs, a tuning that's easy for sight-reading, a regular tuning that you can move the same chord shapes and scale patterns anywhere on the neck, etc., etc.

Look-up Ralph Pratt or Ole Kirby.

Ray


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## Pascal-Darrell

Drop A is fine. Don´t know why it shouldn't work with a 25.5 scale, there must be another problem.

And about the low A, a few Jazz players who used 7 string guitars used this tuning. 
Quite handy for walking bass lines and extended chordvoicings


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## JSanta

On my Eastman 7 string, my low A is a .074 (25 inch scale). My teacher uses a .080 for his low A. As far as I'm aware, all of the jazz guys using a 7 string are in "drop A" for many of the reasons already mentioned. I play a 12-52 set of flats for the other 6 strings, as does my teacher.

For what it's worth, Howard told me a few months back that George had upwards of a .100 for his low A when he was still alive.


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## MartinMTL

Svava said:


> Animals as Leaders.



using 9 chords does not make your music jazz.


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## TylerEstes

Thanks guys. I started learning the shapes/chords for jazz and it worked great after I sorted out the tuning issue. The sound was a tad darker than what I was going for, though. Was still really fun, though. Will probably tune higher next time. But I have a surgery coming up and I needed to take up GC on their offer to give me a refund for my amp and I had to put my guitar up for sale, so no more djazz for now. After months of looking forward to start playing again, I was able to play for a week


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## Cabinet

In jazz, you are going to be more focussed on what you are playing than what your tuning is as far as comping with chords goes.


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## TrafficLi9HT

There's a Jazz guitarist called John Pizzarelli who plays seven string Jazz guitars. He plays in Drop A.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I saw an acoustic player using a 7 string for djazz & he was playing CEADGBE, said it helped him line of the lower string for doing bass lines along with chords.


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## InfinityCollision

JSanta said:


> On my Eastman 7 string, my low A is a .074 (25 inch scale). My teacher uses a .080 for his low A. As far as I'm aware, all of the jazz guys using a 7 string are in "drop A" for many of the reasons already mentioned. I play a 12-52 set of flats for the other 6 strings, as does my teacher.
> 
> For what it's worth, Howard told me a few months back that George had upwards of a .100 for his low A when he was still alive.



Huh, didn't know that. Wonder what he used later on when he started playing in drop G.

Most do play in drop A, yeah. There are occasional exceptions; Tom Lippincott still tunes B1-A4 on his 8 as far as I know.


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## Daken1134

here... DJAZZ


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## Svava

MartinMTL said:


> using 9 chords does not make your music jazz.



If you listen to a lot of the things Tosin does during solo's- implying chord changes that aren't in the supporting harmony, use of approach tones/quick sections out of the tonality.... much syncopation....

There's a lot of technique in there that is more jazz like than metal like.

The drummer is doing a lot of improv during the live performances....

You're right- using 9 chords does not make your music jazz, but using a distorted tone doesn't make your music not jazz. I would say that animals as leaders is one of the most jazzy if not the most jazzy prog metal outfit- though yes it clearly is not straight jazz.

But if we take "djazz" to imply a combination of "djent" and "jazz", AAL is "Djazz"


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## JustMac

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> I saw an acoustic player using a 7 string for djazz & he was playing CEADGBE, said it helped him line of the lower string for doing bass lines along with chords.


 That's really interesting actually, but Id definitely struggle as the relationship E to C is a #5. You'd prob get used to that though, plus with stretchy fingers you could be sticking 6ths or 7ths in the bass which woul be awesome. Cool idea!


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## SnowfaLL

Svava said:


> If you listen to a lot of the things Tosin does during solo's- implying chord changes that aren't in the supporting harmony, use of approach tones/quick sections out of the tonality.... much syncopation....
> 
> There's a lot of technique in there that is more jazz like than metal like.
> 
> The drummer is doing a lot of improv during the live performances....
> 
> You're right- using 9 chords does not make your music jazz, but using a distorted tone doesn't make your music not jazz. I would say that animals as leaders is one of the most jazzy if not the most jazzy prog metal outfit- though yes it clearly is not straight jazz.
> 
> But if we take "djazz" to imply a combination of "djent" and "jazz", AAL is "Djazz"



Jazz in its basic "description" is music that requires "Syncopation" and "Improvising".. I don't know if Tosin improvises most of his album solos or if they are carefully constructed note by note.. but if they are improvised live, then it would be considered jazz.

I hate when people say "I play jazz, like AAL" though.. lol but this new "Djazz" word is fitting, and should be used when describing similar type bands.


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## Svava

JustMac said:


> That's really interesting actually, but Id definitely struggle as the relationship E to C is a #5. You'd prob get used to that though, plus with stretchy fingers you could be sticking 6ths or 7ths in the bass which woul be awesome. Cool idea!



C to E is a Major 3rd. (In the key of C E is the Major 3rd)

In the key of E C is sharp, so E to C natural would be a minor 6th... B# would technically be what you'd call the #5 even though it's the same note. But I think in this case it makes more sense to look at the E as a third above the C rather than the alternative. I agree with you though that if it went E-C it would confuse me a little as to why he was doing it. I can understand it though since it's below the E.

Unless I'm missing something.

But it looks to me like he just enjoys having the bar available to put a low 3rd under whatever he's doing.

If he plays in major a lot I suppose that would make it easy to slap whatever he's doing into first inversion.

Also the string after the E is the A which is the major 6th, and C is the 3rd of the A Chord so if he's playing a minor chord on the A string and barres down to the C string on the same fret he would be able to drop that into first inversion as well, unless I am thinking of all of this massively wrong.

I apologize if I'm wrong xD


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## celticelk

NickCormier said:


> Jazz in its basic "description" is music that requires "Syncopation" and "Improvising".. I don't know if Tosin improvises most of his album solos or if they are carefully constructed note by note.. but if they are improvised live, then it would be considered jazz.
> 
> I hate when people say "I play jazz, like AAL" though.. lol but this new "Djazz" word is fitting, and should be used when describing similar type bands.



It's not just the solos - usually in jazz the *entire band* is improvising when the solos are happening. That's why "comping" is an art: you're learning to improvise an accompaniment that doesn't step on your soloist's choices. I'm reluctant to label AAL as jazz on that basis, even if Tosin is improvising his solos in performance (which I doubt - this is a guy who to all appearances never improvises even when he's testing gear on camera).


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## Svava

celticelk said:


> It's not just the solos - usually in jazz the *entire band* is improvising when the solos are happening. That's why "comping" is an art: you're learning to improvise an accompaniment that doesn't step on your soloist's choices. I'm reluctant to label AAL as jazz on that basis, even if Tosin is improvising his solos in performance (which I doubt - this is a guy who to all appearances never improvises even when he's testing gear on camera).



That's true. Even when we asked him during the clinic 2 weeks ago how much improv goes down he said it's pretty much just the drummer who does improv during their songs.


It's not true jazz, but I do think "djazz" could be an applicable term.

The rigidity of the parts inherent to metal/djent music and the harmorhythmically complexity of jazz, but without the improv.


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