# Beginning drums?



## Ginsu (Apr 2, 2013)

In all honesty, this could probably also go in the beginners section, but this being primarily a guitar forum, I thought perhaps it would go mostly unnoticed. I suppose it would be best for the moderators to move it there, should it be decided that this location is inappropriate.

I am going to be teaching myself to play drums, focusing mostly on speed and technique, since as far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong, I would rather be wrong and learn than think I'm right and maintain my pride, but not learn anything, and go on believing something that's not true) there isn't much melodic content with drums, it's primarily just rhythm. Unless, of course, you're using one of those sample pad things, or maybe some settings on an electronic drumset. You know what I mean.

What is the most effective way to get a good, solid foundation to build off of? I was going to practice the snare drum rudiments found here
Vic Firth Presents: 40 Essential Rudiments

as a starting point (with a metronome). I will likely be using matched grip, however, since it feels most comfortable to me.

Although...are there significant advantages and disadvantages to the different grips? I know of traditional and matched grip...I am unsure what to call the grip in the demonstrations of these rudiments.

As far as style, I will likely be focusing mostly on electronic music, of the Intelligent Dance Music/Drum n' Bass/Drill n' Bass/Breakcore variety...lots of complicated jagged breakbeats at high tempos. Really, just programmed drums in general...I find them more interesting, and the reason I am wishing to build the best foundation possible for technique...that's going to be very, very difficult to build that much speed in a short time...I don't know, in fact, if I can do it.

Any answers to the above questions, or advice in general, is very much appreciated.


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## Easypoo (Apr 2, 2013)

For starters rudiment practice is definitely the right way to go, make sure you take your time getting the notes as even as possible before speeding up. I would recommend finding a drum teacher or capable friend to show you the basics of technique (easier than finding out 6 months later that your technique is terrible). Good luck!


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## Ginsu (Apr 2, 2013)

Easypoo said:


> For starters rudiment practice is definitely the right way to go, make sure you take your time getting the notes as even as possible before speeding up. I would recommend finding a drum teacher or capable friend to show you the basics of technique (easier than finding out 6 months later that your technique is terrible). Good luck!



Thanks! My only drummer friend lives like forty minutes away (at least), and since I don't really have a way to meet with him face-to-face at present, and I cannot afford a teacher...I think I'm just going to find some technique videos and attempt to emulate the movements I see. As far as getting all the notes even, I found that to be the most challenging part...I started at 60 BPM quarter notes, alternating right and left. Once I got up to 16ths, I started noticing my hits were ever-so-slightly off...I'd hit maybe the equivalent of a 64th or 128th beat (I honestly have no idea, but it was less than a 32nd) off, which, normally, isn't quite as noticeable....with a metronome, it's pretty obvious. The faster I tried to go, the more frequently I was off. Drumming is hard.

At what point speed-wise am I supposed to start bouncing the sticks? Or rather, at what point speed-wise does it become more economical to bounce the sticks to achieve the desired sound? Or is that even a speed thing? Is bouncing just something you do when you only have one hand free to play streams of faster notes on one particular piece of the drumset? I've seen drummers do that before...


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## Easypoo (Apr 3, 2013)

As for the stick rebound it depends on a number of factors for example; stick weight, drum head, how hard you hit. I found the rebound came naturally to me so I wouldn't worry about it and just keep working on getting all the basics down. Just remember that all the boring rudiment work really shows in your drumming later on and makes things down the track a whole bunch easier.


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## ZEBOV (Apr 3, 2013)

Ginsu said:


> Thanks! My only drummer friend lives like forty minutes away (at least), and since I don't really have a way to meet with him face-to-face at present, and I cannot afford a teacher.



SKYPE! That word needs no other explanation.


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## rayisametalkid (Apr 8, 2013)

do you have pipes and drums, or a marching band you can practice with? thats where i learned my drum stuff, and the best instructor i had was a drum and bugle band guy, hope it helps.


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## Bretton (Apr 9, 2013)

I'd also recommend practicing rudiments with your feet with a double pedal, even if that's all you ever use the double pedal for.

Traditional vs. Matched:

The best argument for traditional grip I've heard is from Jojo Mayer's DVD. As most people have one dominant hand, be it right or left, these hands work differently, thus each hand should have its own technique, that should be approached differently.

To go matched however, will give you more speed, power and control with the left hand, and you can practice the same techniques with each hand, which can make practicing much more economical.

either way, spend time practicing with one limb at a time, really isolating that one part of you.


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## meambobbo (Apr 9, 2013)

I thought the origin of traditional grip was because for some reason snare drums were mounted to one side of the body for marching bands, making matched grip extremely difficult.


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## Bretton (Apr 18, 2013)

meambobbo said:


> I thought the origin of traditional grip was because for some reason snare drums were mounted to one side of the body for marching bands, making matched grip extremely difficult.



That is indeed the origin, and the drum were mounted to one side of the body so that the drummer could more easily draw a pistol from a hip holster, as the snare drummer's origin is with the military.

Jojo Mayer's comment on the two different hands applies more to traditional grip as applied to the modern drumset, as a justification of traditional grip's continued use.


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## meambobbo (Apr 19, 2013)

Bretton said:


> That is indeed the origin, and the drum were mounted to one side of the body so that the drummer could more easily draw a pistol from a hip holster, as the snare drummer's origin is with the military.
> 
> Jojo Mayer's comment on the two different hands applies more to traditional grip as applied to the modern drumset, as a justification of traditional grip's continued use.


 
cool - thx for the info. it seems crazy to think anyone would go into a battle playing a drum...or waving a flag for that manner.

My hands are actually insanely different strength-wise, and it has caused me all kinds of grief in trying to play, so I'm going to start trying traditional grip and see if that helps.


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## stryker1800 (Apr 21, 2013)

another thing to take into consideration that i discovered, since I'm trying to teach myself as well, is learn to play both left and right hand lead, it's really helping me gain limb independence as well as build strength in my left hand.


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## toothbrush (Apr 22, 2013)

Reference this as often as you can: http://api.ning.com/files/ripYTSi0N...wrencestonestickcontrolforthesnaredrummer.pdf

Best drum book in existence!


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## Ginsu (Apr 23, 2013)

stryker1800 said:


> another thing to take into consideration that i discovered, since I'm trying to teach myself as well, is learn to play both left and right hand lead, it's really helping me gain limb independence as well as build strength in my left hand.



I have actually been doing that.  I practice all rudiments starting with both hands. Mentally, wasn't much of a stretch, since I practice everything starting on both upstrokes and downstrokes on guitar.


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## Binary (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey man! Drummer here. Funny, 'cause I was just about to post this exact topic except I'm starting out on guitar.

Here are some tips for drums:
-- Practice daily. 15 minutes a day is a gazillion times better than 4 hours once a week.

-- Practice with a metronome.

-- Dedicate some of your time to playing the different subdivisions tight. The most common ones are quarter, 8th, 16th. 
Once you have those down really tight, go for 8th-note triplets (3 per quarter note) and 16th-note triplets (6 per quarter note, also called sextuplets). After that, quintuplets, etc.. but definitely don't rush this.

-- Start SLOW. The slower you start, the more obvious timing mistakes are which means you'll play much tighter at a higher speed. 
You'll also give your body the time to memorize the pattern and this way you learn much faster. Ask your drummer friend to play his favourite songs at half speed. 
Unless he's practiced them at half speed, he will not be able to play them tight. 

-- Relax, seriously. The only way you're going to get faster is by relaxing. Any tension is going to inhibit speed.

-- Learn how to read drum notation. There are a TON of fantastic books out there for drummers and they all require you to read.

-- Take a couple of lessons with a good drumteacher to get down your hand technique. It's much better to get it down now than fix five years of horrible technique down the road..

I wouldn't focus on rudiments that much right now, really. Just go for paradiddles and flams for now. As for the different grips: there aren't any significant differences between grips. 
Just go with matched grip for now if that's what feels natural. Try playing the hihat with your pedal in quarter or 8th while playing fills, etc.

Definitely check out videos on YouTube for inspiration and motivation. Travis Orbin is one of the most inspiring players out there, to me.
He leads with left or right, depending on the part. Notice the feet, too!





Ginsu said:


> At what point speed-wise am I supposed to start bouncing the sticks? Or rather, at what point speed-wise does it become more economical to bounce the sticks to achieve the desired sound?
> Or is that even a speed thing? Is bouncing just something you do when you only have one hand free to play streams of faster notes on one particular piece of the drumset? I've seen drummers do that before...



What if I told you.. you can do whatever the @$%& you wanna do? But really, rebound can be utilized at all speeds. 
Just start without a metronome and really master the rebound.. when you have that down, you can start speeding it up.


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## gordon_mlz (Apr 25, 2013)

I started off with lessons 14 yrs ago and didnt get shit out of it. After 6 months i quit lessons and just jammed, read magazines and books, then started youtubing when youtube was created. Ive learned way more just watching the greats and trying to replicate it rather than paying someone to put sheet music in front of me and walk me through it.

For 30$ you can get an aquarian practice pad that comes with a set of 5a lites and a rudiment practice sheet, you can literally learn every snare technique on it over the course of your drumming career with the exception of rim-related techniques. 

Drumming is 90% mental, 10% physical, dont forget that.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2013)

gordon_mlz said:


> Drumming is 90% mental, 10% physical, dont forget that.



That's what my dad says about sports.


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## Binary (Apr 25, 2013)

gordon_mlz said:


> I started off with lessons 14 yrs ago and didnt get shit out of it.


Yeah, that's what happened with my first teacher as well. He only taught me licks and fills and blabla. My current teacher is one of the most inspirational people I've ever met. He kicks my butt, really gives me a sense of direction and I wouldn't improve as fast as I do right now if I wasn't a student of his. I'm not saying you can't become a good drummer without lessons -- it's just that a good teacher will accelerate your learning process __SO MUCH__ ..

EDIT: Those mental/physical percentages are way off, by the way. There's a ton of physical conditioning that needs to be done in order to be consistent.


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## oddcam (Apr 25, 2013)

Welcome to drums buddy!

- Every stroke involves controlled rebound. You should not be forcing the stick back up, but you shouldn't be letting it bounce freely either. Rolling the sticks is a different story. 

- Don't bother with traditional grip unless you want to play jazz. The only advantage of traditional is more low volume control for snare ghost notes. Or to look classy.

- Keep up those rudiments. Work them into every possible combination of right hand, left hand, right foot, left foot. Then play them while keeping time or playing another rhythm with a 3rd limb.

- Keep it slow. Sacrificing technique will develop bad habits that make you sound bad.

You can learn technique online, but you need a real, trained drummer to criticize and show you what's what. You'll need one lesson to get started, and at least one more down the road to keep you on track. One lesson should cost you $30 MAXIMUM, so it's not very expensive.

If you need help or got more questions I'd be happy to assist. 

Lastly, that book .pdf posted by toothbrush is GOLD. It's the bible of stick control.


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## flyfishingmusic (Apr 29, 2013)

Some good advice here (even when it conflicts  )

here's some more to confuse you more
1. The single stroke roll
All the complex stuff you might run into will mean zip if you can't do an even roll. Then you can move on to...
2. Double stroke rolls. These come in 2 forms the 'bounce' version which is very highly misunderstood and the push version where you rely on actual movement of the hand.

Work with a metronome for sure but understand what that thing is for. It does not give you good time...nothing can...but can be great so you can feel what good time is like and be able to repeat it with the 'training wheels' off. 

COUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!! if you count out loud you will have a better understanding of the subdivisions which is crucial to good time (more so than the metronome).

Play along with music a great and fun way to build up stamina a feel what steady time is all about


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## toothbrush (Apr 29, 2013)

Binary said:


> Definitely check out videos on YouTube for inspiration and motivation. Travis Orbin is one of the most inspiring players out there, to me.
> He leads with left or right, depending on the part. Notice the feet, too!



He's incredible. Unreal all-around skills and extremely impressive technique.

Check out Alex Rudinger as well. Super impressive drummer to watch. I'm particularly fond of this video:


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## Binary (Apr 29, 2013)

@toothbrush: Alex is one of Travis' (former) students. Sick, sick drummer.


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## toothbrush (Apr 30, 2013)

Binary said:


> @toothbrush: Alex is one of Travis' (former) students. Sick, sick drummer.



Wow, I did not know that. It doesn't surprise me in the least though. Alex's playing style and drum set-up is quite similar to Travis'. The two of them and Troy Wright are my favorite YouTubers. Great channels and very well-done and inspiring videos. Troy isn't as "machine-like" as Travis & Alex, but all three are phenomenal drummers.


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## Binary (May 6, 2013)

toothbrush said:


> ..


Yeah, Troy is a whole lot more organic than the two. Travis is definitely the least organic of the three.. which probably has alot to do with the fact his consistency and timing is just off the charts. 
I'm not saying Troy and Alex' consistency and timing are bad, as they're phenomenal drummers, but Travis is just.. Travis.

Here's some motivation!


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## ShadyDavey (May 19, 2013)

Heh, lucky find.

I just myself an Evans practice pad, and a set of Thomas Lang signature sticks (I don't find them heavy, I have ridiculous wrist/hand strength from my old training days) and essentially I just sit down and do pure rudiments for a couple of 15 minute sessions a day to improve my timing.

My biggest problem is note consistency with the left hand (I'm right handed) but man, I want a Roland HD-1 kit so I can plug it via midi into my laptop and EZ Drummer up on that thing....

Inspirational stuff.


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## trianglebutt (May 19, 2013)

Everyone else has pretty much covered everything but I thought I would just reinforce the practicing tip: Practice without a consistency or a metronome is worthless. If you practice every day with a metronome for 30 minutes you will start seeing results almost immediately. 

Consistent practice also means that you will think less about technique and such while playing music. You don't want to think about what you're doing when you're actually playing, consistent practice makes that zone easier to get into. There is no tip or technique that can give you better results than consistent practice.

So yeah, consistent practice is what's up!

EDIT: Also, make sure to always attack your weak spots while practicing. It's easy to just immediately start playing stuff you're confident in, but that doesn't get you anywhere! If you always focus on your weak spots, you'll move forward much quicker. It's also very addicting after a while, the feeling of nailing something is like nothing else.


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## ShadyDavey (May 19, 2013)

Absolutely. I may never progress to a full kit but I think 30 minutes of rudiments a day for timing and feel is hugely beneficial and it's quite therapeutic too.......

There are also Graded Exams over here in the UK so perhaps one day.....^^


(Probably doesn't help that my favourite drummers are Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and other luminaries......and I struggle with fluidity whilst controlling the rebound. My left wrist is stiff so whilst I have strength, it lacks control.........it's like learning to run with one good foot.......)


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