# Live Performance Vid - Using Backing Tracks



## Rawkmann (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm starting to see more and more threads about using backing tracks live so I thought it might be helpful for people to see how we pull it off. I'm actually ok if people think it's 'lame' to use backing tracks, but it lets us get out there and play even when it's not possible to find a full time drummer and/or bass player. Plus the general audience doesn't seem to mind too much once we get going. It does help when the venue has a good system and competent sound guys.


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## Semi-pro (Jan 31, 2018)

I've got no problem for bands using a backing trak if they're using it to replace a musician 
(Unless they're "replacing the 2nd guitarist" to double the rhythm tracks. That is lame and just an excuse masquerade the not-tight-enough playing - gtfo baby please!  )


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## lewis (Feb 4, 2018)

Rawkmann said:


> I'm starting to see more and more threads about using backing tracks live so I thought it might be helpful for people to see how we pull it off. I'm actually ok if people think it's 'lame' to use backing tracks, but it lets us get out there and play even when it's not possible to find a full time drummer and/or bass player. Plus the general audience doesn't seem to mind too much once we get going. It does help when the venue has a good system and competent sound guys.



Man this is actually inspirational. My band are about to start doing this ourselves.
There is 5 of us and no drummer. We have already started programming midi drums with the intention of getting them mixed/mastered and sent back as Wavs so we can mix our own drum sound live.

Im hoping the pros of replacing a drummer in this way, massively outweigh the cons.

from what I can gather

Pros of real drummer:-
Live drum sound is better
More organic (could be a con if you want Fear Factory tightness)
visually looks better live I guess (Although debatable imo)

cons:-
sets can get sloppy and go to shit, even if the drummer has a click in ear
Drum Kits are massive and take up ALOT of stage room
Setup time/pack down is increased to the point where your set length will be less because of it
because of this /\, it tends to burden the whole band where everyone has to help pack down the Kit
(I never remember a drummer helping me with my guitar setup)
the drummers in my areas are unreliable and as people, complete dickheads


so realistically I actually see the idea of backing track drums, way way more desirable than a human drummer based on my last 10 years of experiences. Drummes Ive worked with have always been THE main reason writing is going too slowly, or band practices get cancelled or become awkward because of their attitude. Live performances can be unbearable. Had 1 dude honor a show but intentionally played shit just to piss off the band he was exiting. (his last act of ego trip before leaving).

Every stage feels bigger + more room for Scrims.
Packup/setup is so quick, you gain extra time for more songs
the set is as tight as your recordings and sounds completely consistent to the album every show
not got to deal with conflict of personalities
not holding the band up from gigging
not holding the band up in writing (had one dude who after 3 months, still couldnt get the 1st track down...apparently basic song structures were confusing and he just wanted to blast beat over everything)


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## Albake21 (Feb 20, 2018)

Hey I think everyone should do what ever it takes to play live no matter what. Although the one instrument I'd have trouble playing without (by using a backing track) would be drums. It seems like it would feel lifeless playing without a drummer.


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## zarg (Feb 20, 2018)

I guess the feel of having actual drums is quite nice to have, but if you can't find anyone that it's a good solution. Sounds killer, loving the power metal vibes! \m/ the vocalist is really killing it.


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## Rawkmann (Feb 21, 2018)

zarg said:


> I guess the feel of having actual drums is quite nice to have, but if you can't find anyone that it's a good solution. Sounds killer, loving the power metal vibes! \m/ the vocalist is really killing it.



Awesome, thanks! It's a struggle trying to do a power metal band where I live. Too heavy for the bar scene that just wants to hear 70s covers and not heavy enough for most of the core 'metal' audience around here.


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## Albake21 (Feb 21, 2018)

Rawkmann said:


> Awesome, thanks! It's a struggle trying to do a power metal band where I live. Too heavy for the bar scene that just wants to hear 70s covers and not heavy enough for most of the core 'metal' audience around here.


Metal is hard enough, but I'd have to imagine power metal is even harder now a days with the exact reasons you mentioned. What kind of venue as this shot at?


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## Rawkmann (Feb 21, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Metal is hard enough, but I'd have to imagine power metal is even harder now a days with the exact reasons you mentioned. What kind of venue as this shot at?



This is about the most decent venue we have within 100 miles. It's a bar/pool hall with a pretty nice separate stage and band area. Every now and then someone like Steve Vai or John 5 will play there which is cool.


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## TNihil (Mar 22, 2018)

Imho there´s nothing wrong with using backing tracks live. Of course you´ll run into some people who totally despise this method. Some have a musical argument at hand, others don´t. And I won´t even dare to call them names because in this case it comes down to taste and preference. So what....
Just stick to your plan and get on the stage and make the experience is what I´d highly suggest anyone asking about it. If that´s what you´re feeling comfortable with - great. You just found your niche.


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## TNihil (Mar 22, 2018)

lewis said:


> Man this is actually inspirational. My band are about to start doing this ourselves.
> There is 5 of us and no drummer. We have already started programming midi drums with the intention of getting them mixed/mastered and sent back as Wavs so we can mix our own drum sound live.
> 
> Im hoping the pros of replacing a drummer in this way, massively outweigh the cons.
> ...



Wow, that´s cool dude. You just summed up what I´ve experienced in the last ten+ years and what shaped my core "belief system" in my own bands and projects.


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## lewis (Mar 22, 2018)

TNihil said:


> Wow, that´s cool dude. You just summed up what I´ve experienced in the last ten+ years and what shaped my core "belief system" in my own bands and projects.


seems it must be a common problem regardless of area in that case haha

which means my long term aim of maybe finding a human drummer to replace our drum setup (more what the other dudes were planning than me) may go out the window haha.


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## TNihil (Mar 22, 2018)

Yeah and I take it with a sense of humor cause the whole issue led me to discover cool and exciting bands and opened my ears so to speak. Good luck for your future projects with or without real drummers. ^^


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## mongey (Mar 22, 2018)

lewis said:


> Man this is actually inspirational. My band are about to start doing this ourselves.
> There is 5 of us and no drummer. We have already started programming midi drums with the intention of getting them mixed/mastered and sent back as Wavs so we can mix our own drum sound live.
> 
> Im hoping the pros of replacing a drummer in this way, massively outweigh the cons.
> ...



There is one big pro that trumps all of that. Playing with a great drummer is fun as fuck .it pushes you and you communicate .it never feels the same with programmed/recorded drums to me. good drummers also understand the drums and their function .most guitarists program drums like a guitarist . me included 


sorry but everything you list is just dealing with a shit drummer. 

and yeah I have done the backing track thing live with 2 projects 


good stuff OP . all said , you need to do what you gotta do to get the job done . was rocking


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## ZXIIIT (Mar 23, 2018)

Sounded awesome.


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## lewis (Mar 23, 2018)

mongey said:


> There is one big pro that trumps all of that. Playing with a great drummer is fun as fuck .it pushes you and you communicate .it never feels the same with programmed/recorded drums to me. good drummers also understand the drums and their function .most guitarists program drums like a guitarist . me included
> 
> 
> sorry but everything you list is just dealing with a shit drummer.
> ...


We paid to have our drum tracks programmed. No one in the band done them to avoid that "programming them like a guitarist thing"

Plus yeah shit drummers. There are no good drummer in my area period. We already wasted 7months trying to find/write with 2 different dudes. What are we supposed to then? Have a whoe set of songs and a full lineup bar drums, but never gig whilst we wait for the perfect guy?.

Fuck that. We wana gig now. Wasted too much time on them.
And the notion that its as fun or more fun than backing track drums is stupid. If everyone else throws the shit down hard and you have a light show plus full wireless so the band is roaming everywhere, then a drummer and his "pros" wont be missed a jot.


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## Eptaceros (Mar 23, 2018)

lewis said:


> And the notion that its as fun or more fun than backing track drums is stupid. If everyone else throws the shit down hard and you have a light show plus full wireless so the band is roaming everywhere, then a drummer and his "pros" wont be missed a jot.



hahahahahahahaha

jesus christ. you completely missed the point, and that's probably due to the fact you've never jammed with a great drummer. a light show and lack of cable is nothing compared to the feeling of playing with a great drummer.


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## lewis (Mar 24, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> hahahahahahahaha
> 
> jesus christ. you completely missed the point, and that's probably due to the fact you've never jammed with a great drummer. a light show and lack of cable is nothing compared to the feeling of playing with a great drummer.


I guess you intentionally ignored paragraph 2 of my response then just to write "hahahaha"


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 24, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> hahahahahahahaha
> 
> jesus christ. you completely missed the point, and that's probably due to the fact you've never jammed with a great drummer. a light show and lack of cable is nothing compared to the feeling of playing with a great drummer.



Came here to say this.


Nothing beats an awesome drummer. Period.


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## Eptaceros (Mar 24, 2018)

lewis said:


> I guess you intentionally ignored paragraph 2 of my response then just to write "hahahaha"



Nope, read everything just fine. I singled the last paragraph because of the ridiculous point you made that playing with a real drummer is not more fun, in fact it's apparently a "stupid" notion. Just because you haven't had the chance doesn't mean that it's false. I hope that one day you find a competent drummer and can experience that unparalleled experience.


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## lewis (Mar 24, 2018)

man you guys are completely missing my points.
Dream land drummers may be awesome and jamming with a worlds best drummer standard drummer is probably great live. Great stuff.
However, genuinely come and see my talent pool and watch a few gigs of bands from my area playing in my area and you will understand what im getting at. Literally like watching a group of hills have eyes looking band members, playing worst than if a bunch of dads got together and tried blagging a gig.

I cant physically get blood out of a stone or magic a gandalf of drummers out of thin air and obviously, Im in no nationwide known position to entice drummers who may live 4/5 hours from me, to join the band etc.

and yeah I still wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that playing your own songs through, super tight with programmed drums, mixed for live use, isnt as fun as if a dude was sitting there playing as tight as the backing track.

I played Bloodstock festival with my last band. And our official review glossed over our drummer in half of sentence. The rest of our official review went into detail about how good the guitar work was (dual solos etc) and how the bassist kept up (by doing like over the neck double tapping rhythms etc).

so basically we were good enough to play Bloodstock Festival (so the drummer must have been half decent right) yet he brought absolutely nothing to the table from a performance or importantly, visual perspective as per your argument suggests.

We would have played/looked and sounded at LEAST the same if we had used programmed drums for that festival, than we did using a real human etc as per our official reviews and my feedback


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## buriedoutback (Mar 24, 2018)

lewis said:


> and yeah I still wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that playing your own songs through, super tight with programmed drums, mixed for live use, isnt as fun as if a dude was sitting there playing as tight as the backing track.



I gotta agree with this, but from a fake-bass-player stand-point. 
Where I live, most musicians are in 3 other bands (too busy) and/or suck (not implying I'm fantastic by any stretch - just an observation) and/or are annoying to deal with. 
So, I recorded the bass tracks myself for our album (normal guitar/vox duties) and use those bass tracks as backing tracks live. Not only do I know exactly what I'm getting live, but there is way more room on stage and no bitchy bass player to deal with.
Sure, having Dominic "Forest" Lapointe in my band would be great, but impossible. Having someone that is awesome and doesn't bitch and complain about jamming/shows/etc/etc would be great too. Not around here.
I don't miss the extra human being. Less ppl and less headaches and just as much fun, if not more, due to reasons mentioned? yup.


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## lewis (Mar 24, 2018)

buriedoutback said:


> I gotta agree with this, but from a fake-bass-player stand-point.
> Where I live, most musicians are in 3 other bands (too busy) and/or suck (not implying I'm fantastic by any stretch - just an observation) and/or are annoying to deal with.
> So, I recorded the bass tracks myself for our album (normal guitar/vox duties) and use those bass tracks as backing tracks live. Not only do I know exactly what I'm getting live, but there is way more room on stage and no bitchy bass player to deal with.
> Sure, having Dominic "Forest" Lapointe in my band would be great, but impossible. Having someone that is awesome and doesn't bitch and complain about jamming/shows/etc/etc would be great too. Not around here.
> I don't miss the extra human being. Less ppl and less headaches and just as much fun, if not more, due to reasons mentioned? yup.



You didnt get the memo. Apparently you shouldnt be having fun doing this.. haha

but yeah, exactly. Well said. Same situation as me.

from the perspective of drummer. I actually prefer that super tight/Fear Factory style drums so really, programmed drums rather than a dude you are relying on to play super tight and be in with the backing track super tight at the same time, is a complete non starter in my area.
ergo, its fun for me.... lol


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## buriedoutback (Mar 24, 2018)

lewis said:


> from the perspective of drummer. I actually prefer that super tight/Fear Factory style drums so really, programmed drums rather than a dude you are relying on to play super tight and be in with the backing track super tight at the same time, is a complete non starter in my area.
> ergo, its fun for me.... lol


Fear Factory  
I think we'll see more and more of this type of band. Zombie13 has a good thing going. If you can't find ppl to work with, just program them. I saw a Fluff video where he programmed guitars and it sounded good. Imagine a real drummer and bass player with programmed guitars? Throw some distortion/effects on a text-to-speech .wav file and you don't have to worry about a drunk-ass/ego-maniac singer! Sounds kinda funny actually, like some twilight-zone episonde or something. It's going to happen sooner or later.


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## Eptaceros (Mar 24, 2018)

lewis said:


> and yeah I still wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that playing your own songs through, super tight with programmed drums, mixed for live use, *isnt as fun as if a dude was sitting there playing as tight as the backing track. *
> 
> I played Bloodstock festival with my last band. *And our official review glossed over our drummer in half of sentence. The rest of our official review went into detail about how good the guitar work was (dual solos etc) and how the bassist kept up (by doing like over the neck double tapping rhythms etc).*
> 
> ...



Sorry, but your personal anecdote of one experience with a "half decent" drummer, referencing a lazy review that only highlights your band's showmanship, does not bring anything to the table.

You clearly still don't understand my point if you think my argument suggests that I'm stressing some kind of visual importance of having a real drummer. Are you confusing me with another poster here? Nothing I've posted even remotely touches on visual aesthetic. I'm literally only talking about the physical and mental interplay between live musicians in conjuction with a real, proficient and musical drummer.

It's not about playing as tight as a backing track, it's about the organic relationship between shifts of pacing and feel, fluctuations in human dynamics, and the sonic "dance" that happens between members that are interlocked in the same song. I've played with many sick drummers (blessed for having grown up in NYC), and I've played along to programmed drums. Nothing compares to the feeling of playing with a real drummer, from a musician's standpoint. I don't care about the audience's perspective or some dude's half baked review. They're not the ones physically playing the music. And I sure as shit don't consider wireless setups and light shows prominent factors for a good performance. On a purely musical level, nothing compares to playing with a real drummer. If you don't agree, it's because of your lack of qualified experience.

Again, if you need a drum backing track for logistical/practical reasons, I'm not going to pout and complain about the inauthenticity of the show. I 100% understand that you are not in a practical position to get to play with a real drummer and you have to make do with whatever's available. I respect that you keep the show going no matter what. All that being said, you have no right to say the other perspective is stupid, and that's because you simply haven't had the experience yet.

I've gone too far in depth with this reply for the sake of ending it here, because it will eventually turn into another human/machine debate. Finding a great drummer is like finding your musical soulmate, playing with a drum machine is the equivalent of using a real doll. Is playing along with a drum machine fun? Sure, it can be! But it ain't the real deal, and if you refuse to see that, I feel bad for you.


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## lewis (Mar 24, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> Sorry, but your personal anecdote of one experience with a "half decent" drummer, referencing a lazy review that only highlights your band's showmanship, does not bring anything to the table.
> 
> You clearly still don't understand my point if you think my argument suggests that I'm stressing some kind of visual importance of having a real drummer. Are you confusing me with another poster here? Nothing I've posted even remotely touches on visual aesthetic. I'm literally only talking about the physical and mental interplay between live musicians in conjuction with a real, proficient and musical drummer.
> 
> ...



firstly yeah Im completely confusing you with the other poster/posts that mention lack of visuals live with programmed drums.

2ndly, I kind of wish this was your first reply because its much clearer to understand your point now and would have avoided the confusion haha.


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## Eptaceros (Mar 24, 2018)

No worries. At the end of the day, do what you can and have as much fun as possible.


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## Rawkmann (Apr 3, 2018)

*UPDATE*

So, we finally managed to snag an awesome drummer whom I actually used to play with in a death metal band with several years ago and our vocalist is pulling double duty on bass as well so bye-bye backing tracks! We played our first live show a few nights ago and yes, to me it was much more gratifying than relying on pre-recorded tracks. Having said that, I'm not disappointed in the slightest that we took the backing track route for the time being. It definitely helped in getting us established and likely was a leading factor in finding a real drummer.


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## Eptaceros (Apr 9, 2018)

Great to hear! Props to your vocalist for doing double duty, I always have respect for those frontmen.


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## TheArsonistsDaughter (May 7, 2018)

As a fan of band like Godflesh and Genghis Tron, I'm fully on board with programmed drums. It's harder for me to get the current Rings of Saturn deal where it's a drummer, singer, and guitar and they're using backing for bass and a second guitar. Just seems weird that the guy that started the band doesn't play live with them...so maybe that has less to do with backing tracks and more of an overall head scratch...lol

I'm surprised there aren't more bands doing it honestly. The difficulty of finding a good drummer coupled with the quality and good sound of something like EZDrummer would make it much easier. I do think there is the challenge of how to play the tracks live as a beginning band in venues with questionable PAs. While my band was on hiatus I had grand plans to start a programmed drums based project, but with the intent of having the programming doing things a human drummer couldn't...layering acoustic/electronic beats, inhumanly fast, distorted/jacked up sounds, etc. But as someone who has had the distinct pleasure of playing with an amazing drummer...and over the course of 10 years having developed the ability to improvise incredibly complex playing as a way to write and generate new songs, it was super hard for me to write anything. Either I couldn't find drum parts that worked with what I was writing or I'd try and start with drum parts and ended up not writing what I wanted to on guitar. Super glad said drummer called me up in January and we got the band going again...otherwise my band days were probably over!


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## failsafe (May 16, 2018)

I would never watch a metal band with canned drums. Call me old fashioned lol.


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## iron blast (May 21, 2018)

Been doing backing tracks with in ears for click track, keys, sampling, drums and 3rd guitar harmonies for quite a few years with my band. The only thing I miss about a live drummer is the visual aspect honestly and I've played with several tight drummers. Not having to haul all those drums, having more stage room, the setup and tear down time saved, lack of another member to have to pay, not having wait for at rehearsal, and not having to listen to bitch or deal with on writting all more then make up for it. I personally dont dig having the drummer control our tempo they fluctuate far too much imho playing to click with programmed drums is the best solution unless you can afford to hire a pro that will shut up and do what they are told and set their own stuff up.


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## jonsick (Aug 29, 2018)

Our newer material has rhythm guitars as backing track (as well as potentially drums depending if we find a replacement).

Personally, I found guitarists worse than drummers. Finding a guitarist who is bloody normal and good is just stupidly difficult. They're either sincerely terrible with the worst sounding gear ever, or they want to "rewrite all the songs" because "reasons"


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## lewis (Aug 31, 2018)

iron blast said:


> Been doing backing tracks with in ears for click track, keys, sampling, drums and 3rd guitar harmonies for quite a few years with my band. The only thing I miss about a live drummer is the visual aspect honestly and I've played with several tight drummers. Not having to haul all those drums, having more stage room, the setup and tear down time saved, lack of another member to have to pay, not having wait for at rehearsal, and not having to listen to bitch or deal with on writting all more then make up for it. I personally dont dig having the drummer control our tempo they fluctuate far too much imho playing to click with programmed drums is the best solution unless you can afford to hire a pro that will shut up and do what they are told and set their own stuff up.



This reads like it came straight out of my mind hahah.

Well said.


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## BenSolace (Sep 30, 2018)

I'm super grateful that I have an awesome drummer who is a great guy and good friend, but I recognise that this is super rare and not to be taken for granted. I have always feared having to gig with backing track drums as I think a lot of the live experience from the audience's point of view comes from the weight and volume of the acoustic kit.

That being said, it's better than not gigging, and at the very least you know they wont forget the song and mess everyone else up with them! I think the drums in the clip should have been louder, but maybe it sounded more "volume appropriate" in person.

In any case great vid!


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## Marshal_Zadeh (Oct 26, 2018)

To be Honest , this gives me an idea! 

i have been idle for a long time, because of not having a drummer. 

Will start doing this!! thanks guys


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## ZXIIIT (Oct 26, 2018)

Marshal_Zadeh said:


> To be Honest , this gives me an idea!
> 
> i have been idle for a long time, because of not having a drummer.
> 
> Will start doing this!! thanks guys


Don't let not having a drummer or other musicians interested in your music hold you back!


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## Marshal_Zadeh (Oct 27, 2018)

Zombie13 said:


> Don't let not having a drummer or other musicians interested in your music hold you back!



Thanks man


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