# Sight Reading



## Shooter

Hey. I'm not sure how many people here read music, but I'm having a bitch of a time improving my sight reading. I can read music, of course, but just doing it quickly is really difficult. I have to sit and figure it out, then play it... I can't just do it as I play. Any advice? Thanks.


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## ShawnFjellstad

just sight read a lot. you'll slowly get better at it as you start to recognize rhythmic patterns. also, it helps to familiarize yourself with how certain intervals look. if you see a note that is a full line (staff? i had a brain fart and forgot what this is called...) away from another note, you can recognize it as a third, and jump to that note without having to think so quickly about finding the note on your guitar.

do you know all of the notes on the fretboard? that's really important as well.


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## The Dark Wolf

Shooter said:


> Hey. I'm not sure how many people here read music, but I'm having a bitch of a time improving my sight reading. I can read music, of course, but just doing it quickly is really difficult. I have to sit and figure it out, then play it... I can't just do it as I play. Any advice? Thanks.



Advice I received while studying classical guitar at college.

1. Write down note names on the score. It helps for faster identification. You'll quickly begin to associate note names with the marks on the staff.
2. Write down chord names above chords/arpeggios. It helps for finger positioning. You'll be thinking, "Ah, ok! An inversion of A minor here!" instead of, "Hmm, ok... C... E...A..."
3. Make little diagrams above the notes and patterns in the score. Again, like above, helps with finger positioning. You can write a triangle, for a triangle shaped chord (like D major), or little tab-like notes.


Basically, mark the fuck out of your score. Write all over it, and then just keep at it. It's a helluva a way to pick up sight reading relatively fast.


Hope this helps you.


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## The Dark Wolf

Gonna sticky this one too, on a trial basis, see if it helps. 

Sight reading is an important element of traditional theory education. Sadly, many of us lack in this area (myself included. I'm rusty as hell.) Mastery isn't necessary, but a modicum of proficiency is useful. Like the old joke goes, "Wanna confuse a guitar player? Put some sheet music in front of him."


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## Michael

I spent a lot of time sight reading when I was having theory lessons a while back. It helped me to start out with some really basic stuff. Like, acending straight up scales, little melodies in beginer books and also using the correct fingering types. If you memerise the fingering types in a range of positions it will take the focus away from the technical side of things and allow you to focus more on what you're reading.

Also, this is probably a bit obvious but try not to read/play over the same thing(s) too many times. Or at least allow some time to pass before you play/read the same thing again.



The Dark Wolf said:


> "Wanna confuse a guitar player? Put some sheet music in front of him."


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## Durero

A method book can be very helpful for this.

I'd recommend Music Reading for Guitar
Music Reading for Guitar Musicians Institute Press Series from Music 44


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## distressed_romeo

I've been working a lot at reading recently, with all the classical pieces I've been practicing. Bob, I'm going to experiment with your method of marking the score and see if it speeds things up.


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## The Dark Wolf

I actually learned that from some very accomplished musicians, DR.


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## Xtremevillan

This topic is for me.

I started to do basic one note sight reading and then just stopped. Now I forgot it all.


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## josh821

I think it's intimidating when you think about doing it but once you get into it and start figuring things out it seems to come pretty naturally. I just started reading on guitar like a month ago. I was very good at sight reading when I was younger from playing trumpet but with that you don't have to play chords or worry about what position to play each note in. I think that's why I waited so long to learn on guitar.

I think the just do it idea is the most obvious. I've gotten in the habit of translating notation into tab while I'm at work too which helps. Actually, before I started trying to sight read on guitar I spent a couple weeks using this fretboard trainer which has helped tremendously.

While we're talking about notation, I have a question that someone out there may know the answer to. What on earth do all these CVIII and other roman numeral markings on the top of this piece mean??


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## The Dark Wolf

Roman numerals are usually used for harmonic analysis (to denote which chord, where it falls on the scale of that key, etc.), but I've never seen anything like that, exactly. 1/2 CVIII? It seems like it denotes some kind of inversion, as the first note starts on the E (which is a 1st inversion C major chord). Maybe because it's a partial, and the third tone is arpeggiated?


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## Jongpil Yun

I've never seen that before either. Weird.


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## Durero

josh821 said:


> What on earth do all these CVIII and other roman numeral markings on the top of this piece mean??


Those are barring indications which are very common in classical guitar pieces where fingering indications are present.

C stands for "Capo" which means to barre several strings with one finger in this context.
The Roman numerals indicate which position (fret) to barre. 
The 1/2 indicates a 1/2 barre (3 strings) or just a partial barre (< 6 strings) or some publishers use it to indicate which string to start the barre from (eg 3/4 means barre 3 strings starting from the 4th string). (It can be annoyingly inconsistent from publisher to publisher.)




I'd be very cautious about marking letter-names on any scores. It's very difficult not to just read the letters instead of the notes themselves and it can easily become a crutch. I've had many students take it upon themselves to try this (or come to me from another teacher or class) over the years, and every time they come in to play a piece which they've marked letters on they are helpless as soon as the letters are gone.

Instead I'd recommend reading the notes without the guitar in your hands and just concentrating on the letters.


Aaron Shearer's book Learning the Classic Guitar (Mel Bay pub.) outlines a very effective learning process which basically goes like this:

(without the guitar in your hands)
1. read & vocalize the rhythm
2. read & vocalize the pitches while visualizing exact finger movements of both hands.

(then with the guitar)
3. read & play on the guitar while still saying the notes to yourself in your head.


This approach takes way more concentration than the usual "go until you crash" method most of us use, but it's far more effective.


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## Shooter

Thanks for the advice guys. I can't really mark up my scores, cuz I'm playing off my school's music. All the scores stay in the classroom. I've been practicing out of The Real Book, basically just flipping to a page and trying to read it so I don't wind up re-doing songs over and over. For those who don't know The Real Book, it's like a giant fake book full of Jazz standards, and I gotta say it's pretty cool. But yea, the just do it idea has been working, but I think trying to recognize certain patterns, like thirds or fifths, is a really good idea too. I really wish my violin teacher hadn't written in all the fingerings when I was a kid... I'd be great at sight reading!


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## The Dark Wolf

^ Photocopies. 



I respectfully disagree with Durero, as I've been told this is a helpful technique by Amy Bruksch, Dr. Lee Heritage, and Paul Galbraith himself. And I will tell you, when you begin classical instruction on the college level, it's sink or swim, so what really works quickly becomes your best friend. My playing skills were above average, but my sight reading skills were sub-par. I was reading as well as all the other students after only 2 months or so (although I'm horrible anymore. Lack of practice )

Thanks for the heads up on the Roman numerals, though. I was thinking it looked like fretboard positions (something fairly common with classical guitar transcriptions), but the "C" and the 1/2 really threw me, as I'd never seen than before.


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## ElRay

josh821 said:


> Actually, before I started trying to sight read on guitar I spent a couple weeks using this fretboard trainer which has helped tremendously.


I'm sorry, but the intrusive, no cancel/close button, oblivious to any OS other than Windows and any browser than IE security FUD advertising crap (What brain-dead shylock thinks falsely detecting a Windows virus on a Mac and then tries to install Windows-only, IE-only ActiveX crap on a Mac running Safari will sell a product?) zaps any desire to test it out or return.

Ray


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## Stitch




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## Jongpil Yun

Huh. Never noticed any of that. I use Firefox and there's a close button.


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## josh821

ElRay said:


> I'm sorry, but the intrusive, no cancel/close button, oblivious to any OS other than Windows and any browser than IE security FUD advertising crap (What brain-dead shylock thinks falsely detecting a Windows virus on a Mac and then tries to install Windows-only, IE-only ActiveX crap on a Mac running Safari will sell a product?) zaps any desire to test it out or return.



Hah, sorry, buy a PC, we all know they're better.


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## Stitch

josh821 said:


> Hah, sorry, buy a PC, we all know they're better.



Yeah man!

Cos the ability to catch just about any virus for computers going around is a great plus point. And the constant freezing, the frankly shameful process-handling Windows provides, the fact that you need an obscene amount of RAM to just RUN the newest OS without any sparkly plugins either, and the fact that most software doesn't work with the new OS, yet no software will be written for the old ones now...

PC's suck.


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## The Dark Wolf

Stay on topic, please. This is a stickied thread in a non off-topic forum.


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## Durero

The Dark Wolf said:


> I respectfully disagree with Durero, as I've been told this is a helpful technique by Amy Bruksch, Dr. Lee Heritage, and Paul Galbraith himself. And I will tell you, when you begin classical instruction on the college level, it's sink or swim, so what really works quickly becomes your best friend. My playing skills were above average, but my sight reading skills were sub-par. I was reading as well as all the other students after only 2 months or so (although I'm horrible anymore. Lack of practice )



Thanks for pointing that out Bob. It's very interesting to me that it works well in that high-pressure context while I've found it to be so ineffective in my (definitely low pressure) private lesson context. I'll definitely keep it in mind as a potential tool for students who are headed in that direction.

I certainly found it to be a sink or swim situation when I was in the university music program as well. For me reading the notes off the staff was fine, but finding them on the neck beyond the open-position was agony for me at first. That and the countless hours running ear-training drills at the computer are amongst my fond memories of those years


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## The Dark Wolf

As they say, Necessity is the mother of invention, Leo.


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## Garry Goodman

Shooter said:


> Hey. I'm not sure how many people here read music, but I'm having a bitch of a time improving my sight reading. I can read music, of course, but just doing it quickly is really difficult. I have to sit and figure it out, then play it... I can't just do it as I play. Any advice? Thanks.




There are two elements to sight reading, vertical and horizontal. Horizontal is rhythm and vertical is pitch. Many guitarists don't know that guitar and bass notation isn't read as written, but played an octave lower. The top space E is actually the 12th fret high E string, but guitar plays that note as your open high E string.

There are two types of rhythmic notation : notes that sustain and notes that are non- sustaining. Sight reading is easy, once someone shows you how. I have yet to see a book or method or computer program that will show you how.

Once you can read the notation and know where to play it on your guitar, there is a matter of interpretation. A musician can NEVER groove, play 16th note funk, or play anything well if he/she can't play what they are sight reading "in the pocket". It has to be played correctly. If you would like to be able to sight read pretty much anything in about six weeks, send me a pm. It is not difficult because you already know most of the rhythms and heard all the notes. You already know the language.


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## Shooter

I know how to sight read man, it's just getting it up to speed. I used to play violin, so I recognize the fact that guitar is written an octave higher than it's played (top space E is the violin's open E string), and I know how to read rhythms and notes and all... it's just difficult to read and play at the same time.


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## Luan

There are some tips for developing sight read, but there are no tricks.
If you write something for the purpose of making it easier, you are only making the sight reading harder.
The only way to learn how to sight read, is to play with a metronome at a speed where you know you will be able to read everything.
Be really focused when there are 8ths and 16ths, don't just look at the first and last note of the passage, because maybe it has a twist and you will not notice it if you look at it that way.
Practice reading in one string, in two strings, etc
Practice reading in position.
Practice reading in all the neck.
See what positions are more comfortable, since the guitar has the same notes in different locations, you can see before you play, what positions are more comfortable to play that section of what you are reading.
Also, practice reading chords in a steady pulse, you can use the real book.
If you have a melody that doesn't have flats, play this exercise: think that it is in G major, and then all the F's become sharp, and if you are good in this, you can put there 5 sharps, etc.
Something very cool I did once, was to write in the finale, random notes all in 8ths, but from a specific range, so I could practice one specific position.
You can use the range of the first string, and read only there.
There are lots of ideas, you can rotate the page 180 degrees and read it that way


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## Oneiros

I would recomend getting easy etudes like carcassi and sor and read the whole books with a coffee every morning heh

dont try to remember them just pass trough them and play them like you read a book


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## Orochi-chan

I'm not sure, but it reminds me of the NUMERATED BASS or smth. You can find it in the jazz harmony reference books. It's just the number of the step (I forgot the word) of the tonality the piece is in. For example, the II is D, the III is E, the IV is F in Cmaj but I'm not really sure)))


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## Luan

I've made long ago a thread with exercises I use, but nobody replied, maybe the ex. scared them all!


here it is:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...ight-reading-exercises-i-made.html#post991566


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## Jzbass25

If you can try and hear it in your head, I just hear how it sounds once through with counting and then I play it. I usually get very high scores in sight reading.


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## Koshchei

Thank you for this! My sight reading is despicable, and I need to redevelop it.


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## G0DLESSENDEAVOR

I just started reading staff from the powertab and guitar pro. I can play some part's by reading the music, if I get stuck I look below it and find my answer.


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## bassman4534

I need help eightreadung ... Send help ...bassman4534


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## bassman4534

make that sightreading


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## Zenerith

The Dark Wolf said:


> Advice I received while studying classical guitar at college.
> 
> 1. Write down note names on the score. It helps for faster identification. You'll quickly begin to associate note names with the marks on the staff.
> 2. Write down chord names above chords/arpeggios. It helps for finger positioning. You'll be thinking, "Ah, ok! An inversion of A minor here!" instead of, "Hmm, ok... C... E...A..."
> 3. Make little diagrams above the notes and patterns in the score. Again, like above, helps with finger positioning. You can write a triangle, for a triangle shaped chord (like D major), or little tab-like notes.
> 
> 
> Basically, mark the fuck out of your score. Write all over it, and then just keep at it. It's a helluva a way to pick up sight reading relatively fast.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps you.



Attending a music school this year, need to sight read/play in the tests, your post really helped me out as i didn't know where to start, thanks =)


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## modeltrainhead

try reading TABS

heres an example

1
2
3
4
5
6 036548


the six is an string number and the numbers after the six is an FRET


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## Mr. Big Noodles

modeltrainhead said:


> try reading TABS
> 
> heres an example
> 
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6 036548
> 
> 
> the six is an string number and the numbers after the six is an FRET


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## Adriel

Durero said:


> A method book can be very helpful for this.
> 
> I'd recommend Music Reading for Guitar
> Music Reading for Guitar Musicians Institute Press Series from Music 44




Is this stuff interesting to play? 

I've been going through A Modern Method For Guitar by William Leavitt. It's really effective in that I've pretty much learned to sight read in under a week (slowly, in just a few keys, in the nut position only).

The only trouble is every piece sounds like a nursery rhyme. The nursery rhymes are getting more complex but they still sound like shit, and I'm finding myself motivated to keep learning, but really unmotivated to keep playing and hearing that crap.

So any recommendations for a similar book with more interesting music would be most welcome. I was going to start a thread with this question but this one seems pretty topical.

Thanks.


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## Bill Brown

Garry Goodman said:


> Many guitarists don't know that guitar and bass notation isn't read as written, but played an octave lower. The top space E is actually the 12th fret high E string, but guitar plays that note as your open high E string.


Yep, I didn't know that. But now that I think about at.........


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## Explorer

@Adriel: 

Short version: If you can open each page of that book and instantly play each at speed, move on. If you can't, then either learn it or don't. If your real motivation is in interesting pieces now, instead of perfecting sight reading, then why bother learning sight reading?

----

Long version:

I understand wanting to get to something more sophisticated. I imagine that children learning to read and write go through the same thing. How boring, to learn block script before getting to the cooler calligraphy and cursive styles!

Practice perfects what you are practicing, though. If you learn how to read the simple stuff perfectly, and can play through them perfectly at speed, then you should skim through, playing each piece perfectly at speed, and then move on.

If you feel the pieces are simple, great. 

However, if you can't play those pieces perfectly at speed the first time you try them... then you aren't ready to move on yet. That's not meant as an insult, but as an observation. 

The biggest predictive factor for success and for arriving at the level most people call "talent" is referred to as the "drudge" gene. That means you can invest the time in drudge work, even though it's boring, in order to build skills. 

----

Whether you have the ability to acquire a new skill, no matter how difficult or how much patience it requires, or decide to abandon that for something more fulfilling, good luck!


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## Vidge

Explorer said:


> @Adriel: The biggest predictive factor for success and for arriving at the level most people call "talent" is referred to as the "drudge" gene. That means you can invest the time in drudge work, even though it's boring, in order to build skills.



Thats a good point. People throw around the term _talent_ too loosely sometimes; where a lot of the times its hard, time consuming work and practice. So in reality, "Hes talented because he can do 8 hours of play and practice everyday".


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## Adriel

Thanks Explorer. Just the motivation I needed.
I'm not saying I find this material easy. I find it hard and for the amount of effort required I'd rather be hearing/learning something that sounds cool. But your point about starting with the basics is well taken. I'll keep moving through the book.

I think music reading is definitely best learned as a beginning guitarist, when technique and reading ability are at a similar level. I think a beginner would be a lot more comfortable playing baa baa black sheep over and over until they perfected it.


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## Explorer

Adriel said:


> Thanks Explorer. Just the motivation I needed.
> I'm not saying I find this material easy. I find it hard and for the amount of effort required I'd rather be hearing/learning something that sounds cool. But your point about starting with the basics is well taken. I'll keep moving through the book.
> 
> I think music reading is definitely best learned as a beginning guitarist, when technique and reading ability are at a similar level. I think a beginner would be a lot more comfortable playing baa baa black sheep over and over until they perfected it.



I know exactly what you mean. I went through a period a few years ago where, in order to build my fifths tuning chops, I went through a book called "The Complete Mandolinist." I was lucky in that the book was written to allow both a teacher and a student to play along. I would read one part, then the second, and then i would read both simultaneously. 

Anyway, it's not like this will be forever. You'll be sight-reading out of the Real Book in no time!


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## TheGraySlayer

I can't even read a staff on a guitar.
But I can play the fuck out of a trumpet!


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## Oceans

If you wish to site read, my best advice is to learn the time signatures. 
There are whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, eighth notes, sixteenth notes, thirty second notes, and sixty fourth notes. 1/1 is basically 4/4, only the hole note gets the beat. 2/2 is 4/4 only the half notes get the beat, in other words there are only 2 half notes in the measure. 4/4 means there are 4 quarter notes in a measure. 5/1 means there are 5 hole notes in the measure, 5/2 means there are 5 half notes in the measure, 5/4 means there are 5 quarter notes in the measure, 5/8 means there are 5 eighth notes in the measure and of course 5/16 means there are 5 sixteenth notes in the measure etc... Once you learn this it's actually really simple to site read, it's just something you have to practice, so let's say you get some really fucked up time signature like 11/8 or 13/16, just means there are 11 eighth notes in the measure and there are 13 sixteenth notes in the measure, it's really simple once you think about it.
Hole note = 1
Half note = 2
Quarter note = 4
Eighth note = 8
Sixteenth note = 16
Thirty Second note = 32
Sixty fourth note = 64


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## Repner

One way that helps me is to try and sing or hum along to the notes as I'm playing them. Just play the first note to get you started, and sing along from there. It strangely made it easier for me to stay focused on the notes.







Adriel said:


> Is this stuff interesting to play?
> 
> I've been going through A Modern Method For Guitar by William Leavitt. It's really effective in that I've pretty much learned to sight read in under a week (slowly, in just a few keys, in the nut position only).
> 
> The only trouble is every piece sounds like a nursery rhyme. The nursery rhymes are getting more complex but they still sound like shit, and I'm finding myself motivated to keep learning, but really unmotivated to keep playing and hearing that crap.
> 
> So any recommendations for a similar book with more interesting music would be most welcome. I was going to start a thread with this question but this one seems pretty topical.
> 
> Thanks.


It's a great book, but you can get bored of it sometimes. The best way I keep myself motivated on the book is to read (not play) the later pages. When I see all the stuff I'm going to be learning, it makes me really want to keep going to get to that point.

The music gets much better as well:


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## guitareben

+1 to "Music Reading for the guitar. The complete Method - David Oaks"

Very good for music reading, and while it does have many boring music reading exercises, it also includes real pieces of music every now and again  Also covers chord charts and stuff


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## need4speed

It's probably worth noting that sheet music is probably pretty orthogonal to most modern guitar playing. Especially with the widespread use of new tools like tabs, videos, (etc).

That said - it's not completely worthless. Sheet music is an important tool for musicians to communicate with one another. 

I started with piano when I was like 7, so sheet music is my "first language". But I still have problems tracking up and down a fretboard with sheet music. Tabs just make so much more visual sense, to me. I think that part of the problem is that I don't really bother to *know* what the letter-value notes are along my fretboard. Most of the time.

I think that would probably be the #1 thing. (and I have to agree, with the notion that you should sometimes, write the letters of the notes on your sheet music - - when you can't immediately look at a note and *know* what the note is, you won't need to write-in every note.)

And I would give this advice for reading notes on the staff:
Know your treble and bass cleff. 
The Treble Cleff, you can call the "G-Cleff" - because the curly part centers on the note (line): "g". That's a landmark. The "c" (high c) is also the second space from the top. Those are the two main landmarks I use. Everything else is an interval from those. 
The Bass Cleff, you can call the "F-Cleff" - because the two dots straddle the line which is the note: "f". That's a landmark. The low "c" is the second space from the bottom. Those are the two main landmarks I use in the bass cleff.
In between, is middle-c, which is one extension-line up from the top of the Bass Cleff, and one extension-line down from the bottom of the treble.

More than one extension line is a pain in the ass. Nobody likes them. But they are a fact of life.

#2 problem with reading sheet music:
Know your time-signatures: 4/4, 4/8, 3/4, etc.
(I don't really have any advice for this)
#3 problem with reading sheet music:
Know your key-signatures. Being able to keep track of sharps and flats is pretty easy. But losing-track of key signatures can screw you up. This somewhat easier on a visual instrument, (at least for me) like piano, where you can look at your sharps and flats, in terms of white/black keys. But for me, where your gaps on the fretboard are, is infinitely more difficult. I just never got the knack for it, which is why I try to just "hear" what I'm playing, and intuit where the next note is supposed to be. And I know that that's an approach that's probably crippling me as a (bass) player.

Here's another suggestion - if you sing, AT ALL, and if you're not completely opposed to organized religion, find a church, and join the choir. Probably not a "modern"-type church, but one that has a more traditional-style worship. You'll be forced to practice sight-reading like crazy.


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## Mr. Big Noodles

It's all about intervals. There are patterns on the staff all over the place.







That's a lot of flipping ledger lines, huh? Let me introduce you to my friend, the octave.






Woo! Since we know that the pitch class remains the same across octaves, we can infer that that note waaaaay down there is the same as that C an octave above it. Woo again! That octave interval is going to look the same no matter where it is. How about this one?






That one's not so bad, in my opinion, but let's bring it down anyway.






Just an E. All this stuff is simple patterns. If you can visualize that octave, or any other interval, it makes it easier. As far as multiple notes go, it's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with those patterns, too. 






An E major triad. A common figure. You can permute those three notes in different ways.











These are the same sonority, just inverted. Putting everything together so far, let's have a look at this:






You should be seeing the triad figures we just looked at, as well as various octave doublings of certain notes, namely the E and B below the staff.

Naturally, the more you do this, the easier it comes. Read sheet music, write it, transcribe your tabs onto a staff, whatever. It'll be slow at first, but you eventually get to a point when you get fed up with counting lines and make shortcuts for yourself. So long as you learn the conventions (Like spelling tertian chords in thirds, for example.), you can easily train yourself to read all sorts of stuff. As far as relating staff notation to your instrument, if you can count frets when reading tab, you can associate note names with the fretboard. I actually find tab to be more restrictive, as it asks you to put your fingers in a specific place. There's nothing wrong with that - in some cases, I think it exceeds standard notation (specifically when demonstrating fingerings). However, knowing my patterns and having a solid grasp on intervals means that I can decide where I want to play a given note and makes it easy to transpose.


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## StratoJazz

SchecterWhore said:


> It's all about intervals. There are patterns on the staff all over the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lot of flipping ledger lines, huh? Let me introduce you to my friend, the octave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woo! Since we know that the pitch class remains the same across octaves, we can infer that that note waaaaay down there is the same as that C an octave above it. Woo again! That octave interval is going to look the same no matter where it is. How about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That one's not so bad, in my opinion, but let's bring it down anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just an E. All this stuff is simple patterns. If you can visualize that octave, or any other interval, it makes it easier. As far as multiple notes go, it's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with those patterns, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An E major triad. A common figure. You can permute those three notes in different ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the same sonority, just inverted. Putting everything together so far, let's have a look at this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should be seeing the triad figures we just looked at, as well as various octave doublings of certain notes, namely the E and B below the staff.
> 
> Naturally, the more you do this, the easier it comes. Read sheet music, write it, transcribe your tabs onto a staff, whatever. It'll be slow at first, but you eventually get to a point when you get fed up with counting lines and make shortcuts for yourself. So long as you learn the conventions (Like spelling tertian chords in thirds, for example.), you can easily train yourself to read all sorts of stuff. As far as relating staff notation to your instrument, if you can count frets when reading tab, you can associate note names with the fretboard. I actually find tab to be more restrictive, as it asks you to put your fingers in a specific place. There's nothing wrong with that - in some cases, I think it exceeds standard notation (specifically when demonstrating fingerings). However, knowing my patterns and having a solid grasp on intervals means that I can decide where I want to play a given note and makes it easy to transpose.



This is an awesome post. I'd just like to add that you can internalize a certain triad inversion by isolating it.

Let's say you want to learn the E major triad on bottom line. That triad occurs in 3 places, one beginning at the second fret on the D string, another on the 7th fret of the A string, and one at the 12th fret of the E string.

When you can see these triads in different inversions in different places on the neck, not only can you sight read and just read notation better, you also gain what i'd like to call fretboard symmetry. 

The majority of melodies span an octave or an octave and a fifth in distance, if you can visualize a triad with in that melody, you can play it anywhere from 2 to 4 places on the neck depending on the register and key that melody is in.

Hope I've added useful information that helps, or at least just something for anyone to think about.


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## seraphim

i dont know if someone said this already but when i first started reading, i leanred when it comes o chords allway read them from the top note first so you get the correct position and dont goof it up and end up with a weird stretch.


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## Jaryth

ShawnFjellstad said:


> just sight read a lot. you'll slowly get better at it as you start to recognize rhythmic patterns.



This.


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## Jahanasaurus

Berklee Press have some great books, Especially the Melodic Rhythms book. Also check out "Serious Jazz Practice" by Barry Finnerty.Don't be put off by the "jazz" part it's a fantastic book for anyone, it's all notation and about solo phrasing and line development, It was great for me when I bothered my ass trying to sightread! Haha!


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## InfinityCollision

The Dark Wolf said:


> Basically, mark the fuck out of your score.


This. Every good classical musician I know marks their scores to some degree even when not sightreading. Make copies if you have to (I actually do this habitually for my own library), but this is pretty standard practice and is incredibly beneficial.



> 1. Write down note names on the score. It helps for faster identification. You'll quickly begin to associate note names with the marks on the staff.


Again, this. Don't crutch on it, but it's helpful when learning notes or if there's a ton of ledger lines. I used it a lot when I had to learn C clefs and still occasionally use them if I've got a leap to a C5 or D5 in bass clef, for example, just to be safe.

An addendum to his suggestions for things to write down:

-Positions. If you can identify appropriate fret positions beforehand, go ahead and write them in. They're often notated in the publication, but this isn't always the case.
-Accidentals. If there's a key change, consider writing in accidentals on some of the notes that changed for the first measure or two. Again, don't crutch on this. You shouldn't be doing this for more than one or two notes, if at all, once you're comfortable with the staff and with different key signatures. In a related vein, if you have a chord with an accidental in it then writing in the chord name or function can be helpful.


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## metalaxxe11

Sight reading seems to be one thing i cant seem to achieve in real time. Seems to be that way for a lot of guitarists though!


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## kekkuliheikki

Anything by William Leavitt is great.

Also old Mel Bay stuff before tabs existed.


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## ROB SILVER

Just practice...
I can sight read very basic classical guitar stuff at sight, and simple melodies at sight on electric.

(Think my first recorder book, type nursery rhymes)

It's something I wanted to earn to do, but have never pursued because I had no need to apply it.

I think the only way to progress though is by doing it. 

Don't bother buying a "secrets of sight reading" dvd, because there is no such thing, just practice!


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## cheeseandpepper

I've posted a new thread on my app. It will improve your sight reading ability no doubt!!

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu.../215971-brand-new-sight-reading-ipad-app.html


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## TheOddGoat

Cheeseandpeppers app looks sick.

If you're plebeian like me though, download tons of public domain music and just grind through it.

Also, without your guitar convert it to tablature.

Get a random note name generator and find notes on the neck as fast as possible.

Anything at all related to it.

I think David Oakes said "noone learns to sightread by sightreading" or quoted someone else...

His book on reading is great too.


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## meambobbo

if you slow the tempo down enough, there is little difference between figuring the next note/notes out (c, d#, f, etc), figuring out if a position switch is needed, figuring out how to finger the notes, and actually playing them. I think guitar is so open-ended that trying to get this stuff on auto-pilot may be a little futile or overly time-consuming. A 1 octave melody could be played in something like 14 different positions - at some point tonal considerations, practicality, and personal preferences determine how you actually play the passage - stuff that "auto-pilot" can't compute. So I think it's more about being able to quickly identify the notes on the page and translate them to your fretboard, and to simply have a good enough technique to be able to get to them from wherever you are, rather than feeling awkward to play a note that's out of sequence for your scale, or even outside of the current scale.

Slow the tempo down until you CAN sight read pieces in time. If you have a beginner book, the tempo might be around the actual tempo for the piece. If you jump to an advanced book, you may think, "I can't play this". Yes, you can. You might have to set the tempo down to 20 bpm, but you have to start somewhere.

No one ever has a stream of sheet music scrolling past them that they don't have at least 1-2 minutes time to at least skim beforehand. Just look for note extremes and start pre-calculating possible positioning. If half the piece is 2 octaves higher than the rest, you'll know there's a position shift. You don't want to try to switch positions 1 note at a time and end up walking up/down the entire fretboard. It's not cheating to make a "game plan". I feel like it's not cheating if you don't need to write it out (memorize it) and can figure it out in < the length of the piece - finding fingerings for the most complex two chords, positions, rhythm for a complex section, etc.

For large chords, there are shortcuts as mentioned above, but on guitar the different chord shapes won't necessarily match the notes. If you have a root-fifth interval as the lowest two notes, you're probably able to (and want to) do a barre chord. Your position is determined by both the highest/lowest note extremes and fingering the actual notes to be played. As someone mentioned above, avoid crazy stretches. But you also can't chop off the bass note, especially if there's no bass player. A lot of times this is less daunting than one suspects. An uncommon chord might be the barre chord missing this or that note. If you're fingerpicking, just don't pluck that string. If picking, try to mute it (probably technically incorrect but whatevs). Or the piece may use a common subset of a usual chord shape that allows you to finger it in a much easier (and faster) way.

Also, know your open strings. A lot of faster-paced music may rely on open strings - the tab makes playing it seem very simple, but you may get lost trying to sight read it without using open strings. Also, a lot of complex chords will leave you with impossible fingerings, but you might just need a simple power chord shape plus a couple open strings. Most of the time, music written without tab don't use these, so it's not gonna throw you into an impossible chord without open strings, but if you ever have a WTF moment, you'll see what I mean.


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## Reino Tulonen

Same thing with me. I can read and play but doing both simultaneously is hard. But I guess it's like learning a new language, the more you learn it, the smoother you can speak and read it.


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## Eric Von Kimble

In high school there was a joke about us guitarist.

What is the quickest way to shut a guitar player up?
Put sheet music in front of him.

Sux but it was the most true of all instrumentalist in school.

We all deserve more time refining this area, I have been slacking too.
There are free lance musicians who get decent work because of this skill.


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## altyguitar

Get some sight reading books or anthologies and practice at least 25 minutes every day. Maybe there are some tricks and short cuts that might help to speed up the learning process to an extent but the main thing is just doing it day in day out.


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## Dan2

I'm using an app called Score Master Light from the Google Play store on my phone - it's limited in terms of high and low note range, but it quickly got me reading a lot quicker in the middle range by doing a few minutes a day. You can start with slow scrolling and speed up as you get more confident with it.


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## Eric Von Kimble

altyguitar said:


> Get some sight reading books or anthologies and practice at least 25 minutes every day. Maybe there are some tricks and short cuts that might help to speed up the learning process to an extent but the main thing is just doing it day in day out.



+1


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## alvo

need4speed said:


> It's probably worth noting that sheet music is probably pretty orthogonal to most modern guitar playing. Especially with the widespread use of new tools like tabs, videos, (etc).
> 
> That said - it's not completely worthless. Sheet music is an important tool for musicians to communicate with one another.
> 
> I started with piano when I was like 7, so sheet music is my "first language". But I still have problems tracking up and down a fretboard with sheet music. Tabs just make so much more visual sense, to me. I think that part of the problem is that I don't really bother to *know* what the letter-value notes are along my fretboard. Most of the time.
> 
> I think that would probably be the #1 thing. (and I have to agree, with the notion that you should sometimes, write the letters of the notes on your sheet music - - when you can't immediately look at a note and *know* what the note is, you won't need to write-in every note.)
> 
> And I would give this advice for reading notes on the staff:
> Know your treble and bass cleff.
> The Treble Cleff, you can call the "G-Cleff" - because the curly part centers on the note (line): "g". That's a landmark. The "c" (high c) is also the second space from the top. Those are the two main landmarks I use. Everything else is an interval from those.
> The Bass Cleff, you can call the "F-Cleff" - because the two dots straddle the line which is the note: "f". That's a landmark. The low "c" is the second space from the bottom. Those are the two main landmarks I use in the bass cleff.
> In between, is middle-c, which is one extension-line up from the top of the Bass Cleff, and one extension-line down from the bottom of the treble.
> 
> More than one extension line is a pain in the ass. Nobody likes them. But they are a fact of life.
> 
> #2 problem with reading sheet music:
> Know your time-signatures: 4/4, 4/8, 3/4, etc.
> (I don't really have any advice for this)
> #3 problem with reading sheet music:
> Know your key-signatures. Being able to keep track of sharps and flats is pretty easy. But losing-track of key signatures can screw you up. This somewhat easier on a visual instrument, (at least for me) like piano, where you can look at your sharps and flats, in terms of white/black keys. But for me, where your gaps on the fretboard are, is infinitely more difficult. I just never got the knack for it, which is why I try to just "hear" what I'm playing, and intuit where the next note is supposed to be. And I know that that's an approach that's probably crippling me as a (bass) player.
> 
> Here's another suggestion - if you sing, AT ALL, and if you're not completely opposed to organized religion, find a church, and join the choir. Probably not a "modern"-type church, but one that has a more traditional-style worship. You'll be forced to practice sight-reading like crazy.


+1, I'm in the same camp, started on piano and gradually learned theory. I moved onto clarinet, trombone, guitar, classical guitar, then bass. As usual there is a shortage of bassists around my parts so I do some bass work reading jazz charts where I sight read a lot. Most of it is world's easier with bass than guitar, mostly utilizing basic modes and chord theory/progressions. It just takes practice with key signatures. In my jazz classes they made us learn the Maj. and Min. scales for all 12 keys. It took some work but paid off.

Anyway, tangent aside, advice for OP it really amounts to just practice practice practice. I had the same problem with classical guitar, there would be some parts that I would stumble upon (ex. Cordoba by Isaac Albeniz, Choro da Saudade by Agustin Barrios) but all it took to move on was to slow down and break down the part/chord and figure out the note/fingering one by one. As practice and repetitions go by, it becomes easier to recognize notes/chords/fingerings. The same could be said for playing ear/intervals/etc.


So just practice more.


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## RyanCarraher

You've all ready gotten a lot of great advice on this thread all ready, just thought I would share my method. In my opinion the key is consistency. Practice sight reading every day even if it is just for 15 minutes. Sight read out of real books, scores, omnibooks (basically anything you can get your hands on). I found that these books really helped me Reading Studies for Guitar: Positions One Through Seven and Multi-Position Studies in All Keys: William Leavitt: 0073999652710: Amazon.com: Books

Good luck


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## FergusVickers

Jahanasaurus said:


> Berklee Press have some great books, Especially the Melodic Rhythms book.



+1 on the melodic rhythms book, never neglect the rhythmic side of sight reading as its half the picture 

another book is a modern method for guitar if nobody has recommended it already?

when i practice sight reading i try to do it to a metronome and if i make a mistake don't stop i just keep going and go back to it later.


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## Nil0201

Try this book: Schott Music - Shop - Peter O'Mara - A Rhythmic Concept for Funk/Fusion Guitar

I use it in my college of music, and it's fun because the melodies and the rhythm part is a song. With some space for solos. 
Funk, fusion, rock blues stuff.


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## RevChristoph

I'm pretty decent at sight reading and I'll tell you how I learned. The posts about William Leavitt are correct.

Get reading studies for guitar and advanced reading studies for guitar by William Leavitt. These will help play in any position with accidentals and what not in every key.

I also recommend melodic rhythms for guitar by William Leavitt. This is good for syncopation and is rhythmically challenging at times.

Practice both of these with a metronome of course. For the last book I mentioned, I like to put the metronome so that it clicks on beats 2 and 4. I practice sight reading the changes and playing over the changes as well.


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## Jayesskerr

I'm new to the boards, but this is a topic that is near and dear to me; I've spent quite some time working on reading both in and out of school I have some thoughts on it that I thought I'd share, y'all may or may not agree. My thoughts on getting better at reading...

1) Remember how long it took you to learn to speak, read and write? The steps you took as a child to gain fluency? Similar steps, and similar timeframes are required. At least a 3-5 year process to gain basic fluency. Ask any Kindergarten teacher...

2) Take ego out of the equation. Are you hell bent on learning a language, or do you need to hear crazy sweeps, bends, alternate picked riffs, taps and other nutso articulations? Recognize that you are a beginner at reading, and that for the first while, you will be working on recognizing notes, and playing them. As simple as that...

3) If something seems really difficult, simplify. The Berklee books by Will Leavitt are great, because they outline best practices for positions to play in, and make for an excellent starting point. If you don't like the music, that's fine; It's about recognizing the notes, and being able to look at a score and then replay it. Take tempo out of the equation. Take articulation out of the equation, just focus on recognizing the notes, and learning the language.

4) Start with single notes, and slowly introduce doublestops, triads and eventually 6 note chords. Each one has it's own visual cues, and visually will be distinct; but it takes time to recognize them. Start with no sharps or flats and slowly introduce varied key signatures. Notes are like "letters" triads and chords are "phrases". It takes time. Don't feel bad if you spend an entire year or two on only the key of Cmajor... 

5) Immersion. Read, write only notation. Dispense with Tab. Re-transcribe all of your favourite riffs and tunes, solos etc and that way, even when you are doing "memorization" type practice aside from your reading studies, it will carry over.

6) You can read difficult pieces. Easy ones, whatever. Take tempo out of the equation, slow it way down. If you have to, take the rhythm out of the equation also. Refine as you revisit... Take your own expectations of what it should sound like when you are just learning out of the equation. Note recognition. Just know that for the first while, it will be a game of "hunt and peck" as you work towards becoming literate. And of course, it's ongoing. Reading will help you get familiar with the neck, and you will be able to visualize what you hear, very powerful. 

7) Keep at it. I mean, you are practicing anyways, right?

I hope some of this is helpful...


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdNmj2xi91qQWLymozzMudA


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## leftyguitarist

I've played piano for decades, so I can sight read easily.

That said it is still a challenge to sight read and play guitar straight from sheet music because unlike a piano, the guitar notes are not plainly laid out, and there are several instances of the exact same note, which is quite strange. This might be something that can be used to the player's advantage I would suspect, depending upon where the next set of notes is to be played but coming from a keyboard background it requires a significant adjustment in thinking about how one plays.

I do feel for those of you just starting out trying to read traditional sheet music; after that you THEN have to translate it to the guitar. At least I'm past that hurdle...


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Noob question:

I know basic theory: intervals, triads, chords, modes of major and melodic minor scales, basic harmonization (dominant, secondary dominant function, basic modal substitutions). I know the notes on the fretboard.

I know how to count rhythm (and time signatures). I’m always working on improving my timing.

I have an ok relative pitch ear (working on it).

I would say I am advanced in terms of my technical skills (still working on them).

My goal is to eventually write songs (working on that) and record them.

My sigh reading skills are horrendous.

Given the context I just mentioned, I see no real added value to learn to sight read. Am I wrong ?


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