# Just a quick rant and advice to local bands?



## SandyRavage (May 27, 2014)

Having spent a ridiculously long time in the scene booking and promoting shows, I thought I might put my biggest pet peave when locals ask to be put on bigger packages, get paid for tickets, etc.

Obviously this isn't all inclusive but I have noticed it as the norm for locals I have personally booked across the country.

When you are put on a show stick around and watch the touring bands and support them too. I know its late and you have jobs / kids / late night Denny's trips to make, but most of these bands drove 500 or more miles and often I see headliners playing to a handful of kids and it bums me out that your local friends don't have the respect to watch them play. Now this definitely goes both ways as well, but until you have a solid number of shows under your belt or come from some sort of local pedigree or hype it's gonna take hard work and perseverance.

I guarantee most of the locals in our scene anyways could learn something about sound checks, professionalism, cool gear, community etc. from touring bands rather than pack up immediately after a show.

I know I'm ranting and raving but to those who complain about their scene and not getting booked, no one coming to shows etc. This is just one of the many things that will stop me (and numerous industry friends I have relationships with) from booking your band, and wanting to help you out. I will shake your hand after the show, thank you for coming out but in the back of my mind (and my black notepad in the office) I will make a note that you were too cool to hang out and think twice about putting you on that BTBAM show you asked me three times about.

Come hang out, watch all the bands from the openers, to the headliners, and have a great time. You never know what you might discover, and who you might meet. It's a small world and a smaller community and rather than keep with the negativity it would be awesome if everyone approached shows with an open mind.

Sorry for the rant but thumbs up if you made it through, hopefully someone reads this and actually does something about it.


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## rectifryer (May 27, 2014)

It always amazes me how many people want to be a part of the scene yet don't participate.


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## mongey (May 27, 2014)

cant agrree more. My band will sit and watch every single band if we are playing 1st, middle or headlining .annoyes the hell out of me when bands go out to drink and chat to their peeps when they arnt playing. or they arrived just before or leave just after they play 

here is sydney the live music scene is dying and at least the bands you think would support each other but that doesnt happen as often as it should


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## Randyrhoads123 (May 28, 2014)

Yep, I was just at a show where this happened two days ago. Some crap local thrash band was playing and had all their friends and moms and dads who came to watch them, then after they played about half or maybe more of the audience (including the band) left. Black Fast and Battlecross came on after them and were ....ing killer despite playing to like maybe 30 people. It was just lame dude. Had like a single row of people rocking out and that was it. Everyone else was sitting down at the bar tables.


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## Hollowway (May 28, 2014)

Amen. Super good advice.


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## MassNecrophagia (May 28, 2014)

Maybe you could say that to those bands instead of just shaking their hand, saying "thanks" and then going into your back office and saying ".... those guys"

I agree with supporting the scene instead of bitching out, but undermining bands without being upfront with them is just as shitty.


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## Leuchty (May 28, 2014)

And buy or share merch!


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## SandyRavage (May 28, 2014)

MassNecrophagia said:


> Maybe you could say that to those bands instead of just shaking their hand, saying "thanks" and then going into your back office and saying ".... those guys"
> 
> I agree with supporting the scene instead of bitching out, but undermining bands without being upfront with them is just as shitty.




We say something everytime, but maybe should be more direct about it. It's an interest phenomenon that just didn't happen 15 years ago when I was gigging regularly.

I'll give that a shot this week, we have a few shows coming up, but with a few exceptions it doesn't seem to make any lasting difference, and it feels weird having to "guilt trip" people into checking out bands. Not meaning to be a shitty promotor I guess I grew up with enough respect for bands that came before and helped pave the way but communication is key and maybe were a bigger part of that problem than we realize by not communicating properly. 

And yes buy merch. I pick up stuff from every band on the package almost every night....the $30 or so makes little difference in my night but can really help a bands bottom line.


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## MassNecrophagia (May 28, 2014)

SandyRavage said:


> We say something everytime, but maybe should be more direct about it. It's an interest phenomenon that just didn't happen 15 years ago when I was gigging regularly.
> 
> I'll give that a shot this week, we have a few shows coming up, but with a few exceptions it doesn't seem to make any lasting difference, and it feels weird having to "guilt trip" people into checking out bands. Not meaning to be a shitty promotor I guess I grew up with enough respect for bands that came before and helped pave the way but communication is key and maybe were a bigger part of that problem than we realize by not communicating properly.
> 
> And yes buy merch. I pick up stuff from every band on the package almost every night....the $30 or so makes little difference in my night but can really help a bands bottom line.



If I were still gigging, I'd be okay hearing about something that was perceived as bad if we were doing it. Makes it a whole lot easier to fix, but yeah, there a lot of younger bands who don't really understand, and the Phoenix scene is full of "friend group" bands



Didn't really mean that to come off as directed specifically at you, but I know of a couple promoters who are more than happy to slam some bands without saying a word of anything to them.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 28, 2014)

I always stuck around for every band on the bill when my old band was still playing shows. Just seemed like common courtesy  they sat through my shitty set, so I should at least hear them out


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## rectifryer (May 28, 2014)

SandyRavage said:


> We say something everytime, but maybe should be more direct about it. It's an interest phenomenon that just didn't happen 15 years ago when I was gigging regularly.
> 
> I'll give that a shot this week, we have a few shows coming up, but with a few exceptions it doesn't seem to make any lasting difference, and it feels weird having to "guilt trip" people into checking out bands. Not meaning to be a shitty promotor I guess I grew up with enough respect for bands that came before and helped pave the way but communication is key and maybe were a bigger part of that problem than we realize by not communicating properly.
> 
> And yes buy merch. I pick up stuff from every band on the package almost every night....the $30 or so makes little difference in my night but can really help a bands bottom line.


Well 12 years ago when I was gigging regularly it was completely normal for entire crowds to swap depending on the bands. At some point, suburban kids trying to be punk started acting like assholes to anyone who wasn't punk. That was what started it in the midwest AFAIK.


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## Thaeon (May 29, 2014)

The pop punk thing got huge with dookie and "and out come the wolves" in my home town. Most bands wanted to play nirvana songs, green day songs, tool, smashing pumpkins or some other 90's alt band. There wasn't a big original music scene then. A couple punk bands, the nixons, the flaming lips, and my guitar teacher's shitty rock band. Strangely he was a buddy of dimebag's. Now everyone is in a band and those are the only people interested in going to shows. And they all want in free. Unless there are single drunk girls showing up to your show, there will be crickets chirping between your songs. The single drunk girls around here want to go dance at the local club and complain about how the only guys there are douchebags with too much hair gel, bulk from the roids, and the IQ of a toaster. So DJ's get all the good paying gigs. And the hot chicks.


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## andyjanson (May 29, 2014)

Testify brother. It's the height of rudeness.


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## cwhitey2 (May 29, 2014)

We had a local band that we would only book because they guaranteed at least 30 ppl through the door. They would play stay long enough to pack up and then leave. They were called out at shows and on the interweb and they just didnt care.

I would only book them because that was 30 less ppl i had to worry about getting through the door.

The best part was their fans would leave with them  


Like really? Your fans are just as shitty as you guys!


I also never gave them a ....ing penny.


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## GunpointMetal (May 29, 2014)

I always try to stick around...unless we're playing with friends at some shit dive, cause then nobody gives a shit..

Ya know whats really rude, when people get out of town/state bands on a bill, then pull all of their fans when they're done, or promoters who set up lights, talk to the sound guy, and then don't show up again for three hours...


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## TedEH (May 29, 2014)

While I don't disagree with the general sentiment behind this thread, I do think it would be a good idea to take a look at ourselves before pointing fingers. Being in a band, I know that bands often have a lot to learn in terms of professionalism and courtesy, but a lot of times the promoter(s) are in the same boat. Not putting anyone down, just making an observation.

I do try to stay as long as I can after playing a set, because, yeah, it's kinda rude to leave right away. But fans leave after their favorite band all the time, even when the band themselves stay. It happens if the bands aren't all in a similar vein, it happens if you've attracted a crowd that isn't that into live music, it happens if the bands aren't in the right order according to the crowd they draw. It happens to me because I tend to draw people aren't fans of loud music (family, etc.), but they only go because I asked them to. We know this is going to happen, so why not plan accordingly. 

I've been to tons of shows put on by just any ol' random person who didn't know what they were doing (and I've been that person), and you can tell very clearly when more thought has been put into the event. 

I'm not saying that running or playing a show is easy, because it's not- but when things don't happen in an ideal way, you have to ask yourself if you could have done something different, and *then* rant away about everyone else.

Again, not disagreeing with anything, just being "that guy". haha.


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## eyeswide (May 29, 2014)

SandyRavage said:


> When you are put on a show stick around and watch the touring bands and support them too. I know its late and you have jobs / kids / late night Denny's trips to make, but most of these bands drove 500 or more miles and often I see headliners playing to a handful of kids and it bums me out that your local friends don't have the respect to watch them play.



I just played a show last night and left before the headliner. I stayed for one of the touring bands, but walked up to the other band, thanked them for making the trek, then informed them that I could only stay for a bit of their set and would take off partway through because it was already past midnight and I had to work today.

Come at me bro.


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## rectifryer (May 29, 2014)

eyeswide said:


> I just played a show last night and left before the headliner. I stayed for one of the touring bands, but walked up to the other band, thanked them for making the trek, then informed them that I could only stay for a bit of their set and would take off partway through because it was already past midnight and I had to work today.
> 
> Come at me bro.


Come on me bro wait wat


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## Thaeon (May 30, 2014)

eyeswide said:


> I just played a show last night and left before the headliner. I stayed for one of the touring bands, but walked up to the other band, thanked them for making the trek, then informed them that I could only stay for a bit of their set and would take off partway through because it was already past midnight and I had to work today.
> 
> Come at me bro.



I personally think that there is a difference between bailing and, "hey guys, I really dig what you do and wish I could stay for all of it, but I have to be at work at 7AM." or, "...the wife just called and the kid is puking toy cars."

There is a such thing as compassion for the guy who has a decent job or a family. But those things don't excuse the whole band. And by no means are those an excuse in all cases.


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## eyeswide (May 30, 2014)

Thaeon said:


> I personally think that there is a difference between bailing and, "hey guys, I really dig what you do and wish I could stay for all of it, but I have to be at work at 7AM." or, "...the wife just called and the kid is puking toy cars."
> 
> There is a such thing as compassion for the guy who has a decent job or a family. But those things don't excuse the whole band. And by no means are those an excuse in all cases.



Yeah, we always stick around to watch (circumstances permitting). I'm actually pretty proud of my group. We tear down and pack up quick, and we'll always be up front and centre for when your band plays. I don't think anyone owes it to us, but I think it's weird when bands don't return the favour.

It's an etiquette thing.


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## JohnIce (May 30, 2014)

I don't necessarily believe in forced charity, if a band isn't that good then I don't want to fool them into thinking they're awesome. If they drove 500 miles and suck then that's not my problem. I will give every band a chance though.

This because it really hurts when bands and fans of bands leave early and miss out on bands that are actually awesome. Living in Sweden, the standard of local bands is actually pretty high which is awesome! If you're out playing in a band and you're too self-absorbed to give a shit about other bands, then I wonder why you're playing in the first place. Don't you like music? Seeing shows and meeting inspiring musicians doing the same thing as you do is half the fun of touring in my opinion.


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## GunpointMetal (May 30, 2014)

JohnIce said:


> I don't necessarily believe in forced charity, if a band isn't that good then I don't want to fool them into thinking they're awesome. If they drove 500 miles and suck then that's not my problem. I will give every band a chance though.



I guess that's how I handle it, I'll be in there when each band starts, but if its (IMO) shit, you can find me outside with the smokers until the set is over. Poorly executed music doesn't deserve an audience. I've gotten shit before because I wasn't standing up front through every band, and I remember telling a younger band one time, cause they were really pissed about its, that "It's not really my cup of tea, and you really could spend some more time rehearsing." 

If you're not gonna put in the time to at least be tight, why should I give a shit?


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## Johnathan (May 30, 2014)

SandyRavage said:


> Having spent a ridiculously long time in the scene booking and promoting shows, I thought I might put my biggest pet peave when locals ask to be put on bigger packages, get paid for tickets, etc.
> 
> Obviously this isn't all inclusive but I have noticed it as the norm for locals I have personally booked across the country.
> 
> ...




I could not agree more. Ignorance and arrogance won't get you far as a local band. There is no defined recipe to success. There is only hard work, good will, a positive attitude and pure luck. Some day when you're the least aware of it, you and your band will progress and take a step towards the next level. I know a lot of good friends in bands that has worked there ass off to plan tours and spending a HUGE amount of money on equipment and gasoline to "only" get publicity back. A couple of years later, these bands have really kicked of locally and are on they're way up to a national level. They have record contracts, promoters and other kinds of supporters. They have achieved this through publicity, which they've got from hard work, good will, a positive attitude and a bit of pure luck.


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## Thaeon (May 30, 2014)

Never talk shit about any band in your local scene either. You never know who is into what music and might be handing your EP off to someone with some real pull. Alienation will kill your career. This industry is symbiotic.


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## rectifryer (May 30, 2014)

Thaeon said:


> Never talk shit about any band in your local scene either. You never know who is into what music and might be handing your EP off to someone with some real pull. Alienation will kill your career. This industry is symbiotic.



so much this yet every band wants to shit talk everyone for either sounding the same or not sounding the same. Even in a band that sucks, there is probably one good musician. Think of him lol.


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## GiveUpGuitar (May 30, 2014)

I've actually watched plenty of kids who showed up for my band leave right after my set. Every time I say "You aren't sticking around for _____?" "No, ______ sucks."

There are so many issues I have with this. 

One - its $10 or so dollars at the door. Believe it or not, but that gets you more than just my band! 

Two - Where are you in a rush too? They don't seem to understand that when a bunch of kids leave after my set, its not because my band is the end all be all band. A lot of these kids are "friends" and "friends" can surely make your fanbase look like a bunch of dickheads.

Three - I know how it feels, and it is a shitty feeling, knowing you're headbanging like a maniac on stage to literally 4 people and a bartender.

Four - I've felt guilty for DAYS after doing this to some headliners, and its not like they even knew I left. Now I can't be a good person. I'm a total asshole. But this is proof I have a heart, and its not worth the slight bit of remorse.

There's more, but my point is pretty obvious. Don't be a dick, stay and rock out!


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## Alex Kenivel (May 30, 2014)




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## SandyRavage (May 30, 2014)

Hopefully my comments haven't been construed as talking shit. More venting a grievance that seems to be getting much more common, and as I'm aware many people play in bands on here might be useful to hear.

I also like to think that we're not assholes as we run one of the last DIY venues in the state and we understand that people do work have kids etc, so it's not like I'm sitting plotting the demise of local bands more like noticing that it is habitual with a lot of them.

In regards to reaching out to bands I'm pretty bummed to say that we did to two locals who were less than receptive but that is what it is and well keep trying.


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## RustInPeace (May 30, 2014)

I had a rant on another thread about something similar to this. I occasionally run FOH for my friends band when they put on a show at a certain venue, and I could never understand why, when its THEIR show, they are 2nd up? Anyways, after a 12 hour day of setting up a stage, FOH, lights, etc. it was pretty depressing getting the headliners from 3 hours away on at 12:30am to about 15 people, when said friends band pulled 300 into the place just 2 hours earlier.


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## eyeswide (May 30, 2014)

RustInPeace said:


> I had a rant on another thread about something similar to this. I occasionally run FOH for my friends band when they put on a show at a certain venue, and I could never understand why, when its THEIR show, they are 2nd up? Anyways, after a 12 hour day of setting up a stage, FOH, lights, etc. it was pretty depressing getting the headliners from 3 hours away on at 12:30am to about 15 people, when said friends band pulled 300 into the place just 2 hours earlier.



I'm beginning to think that everyone from the province of Alberta that plays an instrument is on this forum.

Also, 300 people at a local show in Edmonton? I'm skeptical!


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## UnattendedGolfcart (May 30, 2014)

I totally know what this is like. A few years ago when my stepbrother had a grunge band he played at a battle of the bands. His band was going to win 3rd, but they ended up winning 2nd (and a lot more money) because the would-be 2nd place band left with all their fans immediately after they played. Why would you all leave a BOTB? Sucks to be them.

I've also dealt with this in my own band in the past. When I was in high school, there was like one venue to play at in my house, and frequently we would get put on a set with two bands I knew, one was a pretty mediocre pop rock band, and the other band played very unoriginal classic rock. Everyone in both bands was between 14-16, and let me tell you, they were some of the most egotistical little s..ts I've met in my life. They'd constantly rip on my band when we were playing, leave when my band was playing and then come back after they knew we were done, or flat out tell people that we sucked. They thought they were the best thing since sliced bread because they had their mommies and daddies there, as well as their "friends" who went and never paid attention. I talked to most of the kids who went to their shows, and they said they didn't even like their bands. They'd go to the show and stand around and talk to each other the entire time. I think that's a bit disrespectful, but it was funny to me at the time because those bands thought they had diehard fans, which furthered their arrogance.
On multiple occasions I have called out some of those children in those bands, and they'd always try to cover their asses by saying "no I wasn't saying that, someone else was!" I always knew they were lying. Fortunately I never have to see them anymore. I might not like some bands I see, and I might say something to my friends about why I don't like them, but almost always I stay and see all the bands at shows if I'm able, and I'll tell them that they did a great job because I know the stress of performing.


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## RustInPeace (Jun 1, 2014)

eyeswide said:


> I'm beginning to think that everyone from the province of Alberta that plays an instrument is on this forum.
> 
> Also, 300 people at a local show in Edmonton? I'm skeptical!



Been to Airways in Nisku lately? The show im talking about is held there, called Tits and Metal (Its a strip bar for those who arent from here). We PACKED the place and they have now built a permanent stage in there for the event. I have to give it to them, they promoted the hell out of the shows and have turned out crowds of about 2-300 I think about 6 times now. 

Metal band followed by strippers in between bands? Hell yes it works!


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## drgamble (Jun 1, 2014)

RustInPeace said:


> I had a rant on another thread about something similar to this. I occasionally run FOH for my friends band when they put on a show at a certain venue, and I could never understand why, when its THEIR show, they are 2nd up? Anyways, after a 12 hour day of setting up a stage, FOH, lights, etc. it was pretty depressing getting the headliners from 3 hours away on at 12:30am to about 15 people, when said friends band pulled 300 into the place just 2 hours earlier.



That 2nd set is usually the primetime set, it's late enough for everyone to get there, but still early enough before everybody gets too drunk and starts heading for the exits. That being said, we never let an out of town band play last unless they are the ones bringing people in. We also try to make sure they don't leave empty handed even if it means we don't make squat. I started playing clubs over 20 years ago though, so I still stick with the old school mentality that we help each other out. A lot of times, the favor is returned and it really sucks.


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## Oxidation_Shed (Jun 1, 2014)

This thread is on point. Played a show this evening and one of the bands managed to basically boi me off when I went to say hello, talk the whole way through the acoustic first band, have no banter other than in jokes with their friends on stage, break our singers leads by sitting a stool on them, drop and kick his mic that they again borrowed, didn't even bother to tear down and then proceeded to sod off to the car park all night and not stick around to watch anyone else. 

It just seems sad because surely one of the best thing about playing shows is that opportunity to meet new people and have a nice time


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## Explorer (Jun 1, 2014)

As always in these topics, the cynical but true lesson is, don't miss out an on opportunity to network if you want to move in your career. 

If you feel networking is selling out, then why are you even trying to sell out by gaining audience? Why are you playing out at all? Don't get on stage and pretend to care about connecting with someone else if you're not interested in connecting. 

One more thing, already mentioned: You never know who you're talking to. It might be someone with a connection to power, to other bands, and so on. I've been told after a performance that someone I recommended had talked smack about others, and that the agent wanted me to know why she wasn't going to give any business to someone who couldn't be professional. I felt bad, as it reflected on me... but the point is, there was someone who *didn't * think about how things would reflect on them personally. If someone hears you talking smack about someone else, they don't know if you'll do the same about them. Why bother investing the effort in a smack-talker when there are others to choose from?


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## MBMoreno (Jun 1, 2014)

Just wanted to say that this applies everywhere. 
I'm portuguese, from a small town, and while there isn't as much "tradition" in touring and live (quality) music like there is in other countries, I've seen people throw away great opportunities just cause they were "too cool". And "bosses" ruining projects cause they think musicians need them for work, when it is the other way around. 

And seen others that win at life just by being humble and reasonable.


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## Orgalmer (Jun 1, 2014)

> Three - I know how it feels, and it is a shitty feeling, knowing you're headbanging like a maniac on stage to literally 4 people and a bartender.



Could it be you're just not playing the right shows? Been there, done that, no one's fault but the bands for signing on to a shitty show.

I find it hard to stick around for a lot of late shows because I'm so out of it after playing, but in a few cases I've seen really cool bands and let them know what I thought, and would totally go and see them again and support them in my own time. If I couldn't go see a band for some reason (as in, they're not from AU) then I'd just go and buy their merch.

All I'm saying is there's more than one way to support your industry.


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## eyeswide (Jun 2, 2014)

RustInPeace said:


> Been to Airways in Nisku lately? The show im talking about is held there, called Tits and Metal (Its a strip bar for those who arent from here). We PACKED the place and they have now built a permanent stage in there for the event. I have to give it to them, they promoted the hell out of the shows and have turned out crowds of about 2-300 I think about 6 times now.
> 
> Metal band followed by strippers in between bands? Hell yes it works!



You shitting me? How have I not heard of this before? That'd be worth the road trip!


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jun 2, 2014)

eyeswide said:


> I just played a show last night and left before the headliner. I stayed for one of the touring bands, but walked up to the other band, thanked them for making the trek, then informed them that I could only stay for a bit of their set and would take off partway through because it was already past midnight and I had to work today.
> 
> Come at me bro.



Nothing wrong with that. We are there to play a show. It's no one's job to be an audience member. The audience is supposed to be there because they want to be there. Me, for a variety of reasons, i'm not a big fan of hanging out in bars, so I play our set, act decent and friendly to the other guys that i talk to while there, and leave when i'm done. I'm sure some folks take offense but oh well, it's just not my thing.


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## Oxidation_Shed (Jun 2, 2014)

I take your point about the fact that it's no one's job to be an audience member, but solidarity and mutual respect is surely a part of networking - and surely networking is a part of your job as a musician?


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## Thaeon (Jun 2, 2014)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Nothing wrong with that. We are there to play a show. It's no one's job to be an audience member. The audience is supposed to be there because they want to be there. Me, for a variety of reasons, i'm not a big fan of hanging out in bars, so I play our set, act decent and friendly to the other guys that i talk to while there, and leave when i'm done. I'm sure some folks take offense but oh well, it's just not my thing.



Do you love music? Do you want a good local scene? Do you want bands to come to your shows when they aren't playing on the bill? Do you want to have a good reputation as a band that supports your local scene? Then hell yeah it's your job to be an audience member! You are a representative of your band and your brand. You better be damn certain that people notice you bailing out and remember it. If you want to sell your product, you better make sure you look better to the audience than the other bands there. The audience wants to connect with you. Before, during and after you play. If you want a career in music, this is the fastest way to stay local. I despise bars. I hate cramped places it's hard to move around in. I can't stand people who are shit faced drunk and most of all I loathe cigarette smoke. But I'll load in to the gig on time and I'll be damned if I'm not one of the last ones to leave at the end of the night. And people notice. If you as a musician don't set the example of what should happen, your scene will suck. Your fans will follow your lead. If you show respect and network and make sure you talk to everyone, thanking everyone, chat will all of the people who want to talk to you, your fans will love you. They won't be able to keep themselves from giving you their money. If you're an asshat who doesn't support the other local bands, they will follow your lead and will treat other bands accordingly. Be what you want out of your local scene.


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## robare99 (Jun 3, 2014)

Exactly. 

Be what you want out of your scene. If you want people to stay for your band, show up early and stay for all the other bands. Don't be too cool and leave. A scene is only as good as the members within it, band members and audience.


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## hairychris (Jun 5, 2014)

I'll throw a few things out, as someone who's been playing shitty shows in small bands for ever (it seems):

If you're a promoter, promote, especially if booking an out of town show. You can't rely on the local support bringing all their mates out each time they play. I've seen good bands in front of no audience because the promoter didn't do their job, and less-known bands have busier shows because the promoter worked for it.

This is a double-edged sword as local bands need to be able to justify them being on bills. This, though, applies a bit more towards all-local shows as opposed to an out-of-town draw. Promoters have to balance this up. As do bands.

As a band, you can't expect your mates to show up to all of your shows. Especially if you are on a full-price ticket and don't have much of a cheap list. You're on to a loser if this is what happens (90% of the audience is the same whenever you play).

Promoter should organize the equipment, or at a bare minimum get a conversation going between the bands well before the event regarding kit sharing. Bands: if you turn up to a show and need to borrow equipment from me without having cleared it first, it is not going to happen. You have been unprofessional. Oh, and unless I personally know you well you aren't using my head!

Bands and promoters: be there on time! Pet peeve is turning up to the venue and the promoter is not there, or easily available. They should not turn up after doors have opened. I don't want to have to deal with bar staff who don't know what's going on, or a sound guy who's already pissed off because this keeps happening.

Bands! Have your shit together with set times and change overs. If you're 2nd band on, you do not overrun by 15 minutes because the singer thinks that he's Eddie Vedder. He isn't, and you are selfish pricks for indulging in it. Promoter - pull the plug on those arseholes! (BTW everyone's done this at least once, an old band of mine included. You don't get asked back.)

Bands! Be nice to the sound guy. Unless he's a completely clueless ass, that is. Be aware of your stage volumes... If you want to play with rig loud, at least try to arrange that when you get in.

Promoters! I've played on bills where we've known that we're not getting paid (friends promoting show, or an interesting bill that will expose band to new audience, etc). Helping out a bit with the fuel is always a real help especially if you've got a good crowd in! Or supply some beers or something.

Anyway...

The scene in London's a bit ....ed. There are so many bands that certain promoters are happy taking the piss. If you don't play then there are 5 other bands who will take your place. It's always good, as a band, to get to know the promoters that won't screw you over. Equally, on the band's side, don't be unreliable or unreasonable as if a promoter thinks that you will improve their bill then that's a good place to start. If you get a bad reputation it'll spread really quickly (and to other bands). You're screwed at that point.

A couple of anecdotes:

1) We folded one band that I was in earlier in the week. We were getting unreliable, performance-wise, and I know that there were opportunities to be had if we were not. Also, the last show we played was a shambles from the promoter's side. We, the band, were sat around wondering how the hell we'd gotten in to that situation. Things degenerated from there!

2) On the other side I had my first show with a second band at a well known London venue (Underworld). Good promotion, the other support acts were cool, some free beer, everyone had their shit together... The headliners. Jesus. A very professionally kitted out bunch of mardy twats from Sweden. I didn't have to deal with them, luckily!

I'll shut up now...


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