# Metal guitarist -> learn Jazz



## SPBY (Dec 24, 2009)

I play almost entirely metal, i know a few other songs, but metal is my forte. I like the phrasing and melodies of Jazz a bit better than metal, but metal captures me more. What would be a good way to start learning jazz, without taking actual lessons?

Are there any good instructional DVD's or books out there that i could check out that come to mind first? The type of jazz sound i like is stuff like this:





Fingerstyle is fine, but i would rather use a pick so that i could throw in jazzy riffs between metal parts easily

EDIT: i also really like the Guthrie Govan type jazz fusion thing he has goin on


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## telecaster90 (Dec 24, 2009)

The only real way to learn jazz is to dive in and start playing tunes. Learn some 7th chords and how to read music if you don't already know and dive into this:

Amazon.com: The Real Book: Sixth Edition (0073999683059): Hal Leonard Corporation: Books


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## BigPhi84 (Dec 24, 2009)

Can you read music or are you strictly tab?


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## SPBY (Dec 24, 2009)

BigPhi84 said:


> Can you read music or are you strictly tab?



well, i can read music but of course i prefer tabs


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## jjjsssxxx (Dec 24, 2009)

I am also more of a metal guitarist, but I've been studying jazz for a few years now. What I've learned the most from is transcribing other players' solos. I've learned more that way than from any books or lessons. I've transcribed solos from Wes Montgomery, Charlie Christian, Adam Rogers and some others. 
Standards are the best place to start. The Real Books come in real handy so you can see what licks they're playing over particular chord changes, and obviously learning stuff that way is a great way to train your ears as opposed to learning licks from tabs. The Real Books are floating around the internet in PDF form. There are probably some Wes Montgomery tabs out there too.
If you start with Wes's stuff, the stuff from later fusion guys and whatnot will make more sense cuz they all build on his vocabulary, which incidentally comes straight from Charlie Christian.
I'm getting kinda long-winded, but basically, jazz is a big ol' can of worms! Have fun with it.


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## robotsatemygma (Dec 27, 2009)

Start small, learn some of the old standards that have like 4-6 chords in them, improvise over them, then start learning more and more complex stuff. Eventually it'll all click. 

The essence of jazz is about improvising, melody, and rhythm.

Good luck and have FUN!


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## gunho (Jan 22, 2010)

Neal said:


> I am also more of a metal guitarist, but I've been studying jazz for a few years now. What I've learned the most from is transcribing other players' solos. I've learned more that way than from any books or lessons. I've transcribed solos from Wes Montgomery, Charlie Christian, Adam Rogers and some others.
> Standards are the best place to start. The Real Books come in real handy so you can see what licks they're playing over particular chord changes, and obviously learning stuff that way is a great way to train your ears as opposed to learning licks from tabs. The Real Books are floating around the internet in PDF form. There are probably some Wes Montgomery tabs out there too.
> If you start with Wes's stuff, the stuff from later fusion guys and whatnot will make more sense cuz they all build on his vocabulary, which incidentally comes straight from Charlie Christian.
> I'm getting kinda long-winded, but basically, jazz is a big ol' can of worms! Have fun with it.




Thanks man, i shall check out the Real books. I too have been learning Jazz but my knowledge of players and songs is really limited to the very well known stuff. I also need to brush up on my sight reading.

Managed to grab a pdf of Real standards and The new real book vol. 3 last night.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 22, 2010)

+10000000 for getting a Fakebook. If you're serious about learning jazz, then tab is absolutely the worst way to go unfortunately.

I'd also recommend Jimmy Bruno's 'No-nonsense Jazz Guitar' video, as this will give you a solid foundation in absolutely everything you need to get going, and is far more accessible to your average metalhead than most jazz instructionals.

Another important thing is to do A LOT of listening, and try jamming along with records, even if you don't know the changes or fully understand what you're playing. Try and start with something more accessible, like Miles Davis' 'Kind of Blue', some Django or Wes, or some Charlie Parker rather than modern fusion shennanigans until you've got a good feel for the fundementals. Trust me, when you come back to Chick Corea and Pat Metheny later on, their styles will make a hell of a lot more sense. Maybe buy yourself some compilation albums to get you going?
As Neal said, transcribing is also an excellent idea, although I'm ashamed to admit it's not something I've done very much, as I enjoy learning individual licks that catch my ear, but always end up going off on a tangent and coming up with my own variations on them, so I've never actually finished a whole solo.


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## gunho (Jan 22, 2010)

distressed_romeo said:


> although I'm ashamed to admit it's not something I've done very much, as I enjoy learning individual licks that catch my ear, but always end up going off on a tangent and coming up with my own variations on them, so I've never actually finished a whole solo.



I hear you bro, I'm exactly the same!


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## DomitianX (Jan 22, 2010)

Listen..... and I dont mean have it on while you bang the old lady. Not that thats a bad thing, but grab a pair of head phones and really listen.

Wes Montgomery and Charlie Christian are GODS when it comes to jazz.

The other thing that really helps, especially if you have some theory background is to listen to the phrasing more than note choices. Feel them playing against the beats, the vamping, how they swing. To me thats the most important part, especially if you get into more of the fusion stuff of today.

If you know some theory and you have a good handle of modes and what not, you can fake a good vamp with a few 7th chords and some nice phrasing. Obviously you are not going to impress big jazz fusion heads, but you can begin to get an idea of whats going on by jumping in.

For example, I am listening to John Scofield right now and while there is quite a bit of "technique" behind what they are playing, but mostly is about the phrasing and playing off each other rather than making sure you choose the right 4 notes over a diminished 7th chord.

But again, its about listening. Listen listen listen.


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## jacksonplayer (Jan 22, 2010)

DomitianX said:


> Listen..... and I dont mean have it on while you bang the old lady. Not that thats a bad thing, but grab a pair of head phones and really listen.



Excellent advice. I would add that you should also listen to lots of non-guitar jazz of all different sorts. 

Personally, I find traditional jazz guitar to be an overly fussy relic of the '50s cool jazz movement, and I've gotten a lot more inspiration from listening to Coltrane and Miles. You can get lots of ideas from Coltrane that will translate right into metal (or any other context) without ever having to crack open a fake book and learn "My Funny Valentine." It really is all about the phrasing and off-the-beat rhythm that jazz players use. 

That said, knowledge is never a bad thing. It's more a question of what you're looking to accomplish--becoming an actual jazz guitarist or utilizing jazz ideas in the music you already do. I've been working on a metal/funk/free-modal jazz hybrid for several years now, and I find much to use in the ideas of jazz without actually getting too bogged down in learning every detail.


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## DomitianX (Jan 22, 2010)

jacksonplayer said:


> Excellent advice. I would add that you should also listen to lots of non-guitar jazz of all different sorts.
> 
> Personally, I find traditional jazz guitar to be an overly fussy relic of the '50s cool jazz movement, and I've gotten a lot more inspiration from listening to Coltrane and Miles. You can get lots of ideas from Coltrane that will translate right into metal (or any other context) without ever having to crack open a fake book and learn "My Funny Valentine." It really is all about the phrasing and off-the-beat rhythm that jazz players use.
> 
> That said, knowledge is never a bad thing. It's more a question of what you're looking to accomplish--becoming an actual jazz guitarist or utilizing jazz ideas in the music you already do. I've been working on a metal/funk/free-modal jazz hybrid for several years now, and I find much to use in the ideas of jazz without actually getting too bogged down in learning every detail.



To be honest I dont listen to a lot of Jazz just for the guitar, its more about the interaction of the players. The phrasing, playing with the beats, the ebb and flow, the swing, etc.

I have zero desire to play standards anywhere, its more about me taking something from it and doing something my own to it.

I dig fusion jazz/rock guitar though. Scofield, Tribal Tech, etc. That kind of guitar gets me going. As far as traditional Jazz Montgomery, Christian, maybe Joe Pass, thats about it for me for guitar players specifically. Otherwise I just like listening to the whole vibe of the band, not necessarily a single player.

How they swing the beat, how they make 11/8 not sound like 11/8, etc.


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## jacksonplayer (Jan 22, 2010)

DomitianX said:


> To be honest I dont listen to a lot of Jazz just for the guitar, its more about the interaction of the players. The phrasing, playing with the beats, the ebb and flow, the swing, etc.
> 
> I have zero desire to play standards anywhere, its more about me taking something from it and doing something my own to it.
> 
> ...



I'm with you. It's just that I often find that the typical guitar-driven jazz groups aren't loud and obnoxious enough for me.  Fusion is obviously a different thing, and very near and dear to me. McLaughlin and Holdsworth are two of my biggest role models.

As for the guys playing the big jazz boxes, I like Wes and Benson the best. They have more grease and grit in their playing than the guys from the Jim Hall/Barney Kessel/Tal Farlow school.


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## tribalfusion (Feb 10, 2010)

Scott Henderson's instructional videos would be a big help. 

As for players, also check out Wayne Krantz


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