# Berried Alive. I keep seeing this band on social media. Am I taking crazy pills?



## Quantumface (Feb 6, 2018)

This guy has been coming up in sponsored videos on my Facebook, as well as ads from Legator guitars and such. Something just seems odd to me about all his videos, yet all the comments on Youtube, Facebook, Instagram etc. are nothing but gushing praise over this guy's abilities. Dont get me wrong, he is clearly skilled, but with all the camera work, audio production and editing, the midi-like tone, something isnt adding up to me. Plus, there isnt a single video that ive found with actual live audio/camera audio of him playing anything at all. Seems like another recording at half speed kinda guy. I can appreciate the originality but it just doesn't pass the smell test to me, maybe im crazy though.


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## BangandBreach (Feb 6, 2018)

And if it doesn't pass your smell test? Then what? What exactly is the problem here?


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 6, 2018)

he falls into the dan james griffin category of "pantomimes to a midi guitar track". I've watched a fair number of his videos/stuff and I'd say nearly all of it is pantomimed to midi. 
Nothing wrong with using midi as a composition tool but when you're passing off the midi track as something you actually play that's pretty shitty imo. It's extremely disingenuous.


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## KyleG (Feb 6, 2018)

I mean, it's obvious not a live take but some of the ideas sound cool


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## Quantumface (Feb 6, 2018)

BangandBreach said:


> And if it doesn't pass your smell test? Then what? What exactly is the problem here?



Then he is forbidden to continue to play music!

No, obviously it doesn't matter what I think, which is where I'm sure you're going with your comment. I just don't wanna support disingenuous musicians, that's all. You can if you want, if you fall under the "It doesn't matter, its just about the music in the end" category.


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## Dcm81 (Feb 6, 2018)

You might not want to support him but you're definately pushing him with this thread........I never heard of him......now I have to go watch his stuff def not trying to be a dick but in the future just keep it to yourself if you don't want to support these kinda guys


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 6, 2018)

Charles is a fantastic player, and he can play most of this stuff pretty cleanly. What most people have a problem with is when they understand he's miming to his recorded audio take, and people are either in the "Ok whatever" camp, or the "What a hack, this disqualifies his talent". 

And you probably won't find footage of this live since this isn't a live act AFAIK. The farthest thing to live you can find is him playing in Reflections and any youtube videos he may have done prior to starting his own project.

This is a very very different situation from let's say, Lucas Mann. Who couldn't play his material and trolled the internet at nearly ever opportunity when people would scrutinize him over his playing. 

Berried Alive itself isn't the kind of music I enjoy, it's way too out there and got too much happening at various points.


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## Splenetic (Feb 6, 2018)

Less berried and more buried for this dude.


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

I think the only thing that people seem to hear that they dont like appears to be automated controlled affects over this playing.

Like EQ sweeps and those horrible (in a good way) harmonies in places (where its the same thing just played a semitone up or down)
So because it kicks itself in and out automatically with his playthroughs people are like "this shit is so fake"

Ive done this myself live. I had harmonies for tapping sections and during solos kick in and out automatically.

I personally love his style. Its making me gas for at least 1 guitar with a killswitch


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## Quantumface (Feb 6, 2018)

lewis said:


> I think the only thing that people seem to hear that they dont like appears to be automated controlled affects over this playing.
> 
> Like EQ sweeps and those horrible (in a good way) harmonies in places (where its the same thing just played a semitone up or down)
> So because it kicks itself in and out automatically with his playthroughs people are like "this shit is so fake"
> ...



I think these clearly aren't live play-throughs, so I see no reason to believe all these effects were live and not added post-production, but I take no issue with that stuff anyways. He has obviously no qualms with his over-the-top and stylistic use of post-production so I don't see why he'd have any problems with behind the scenes doctoring of his playing as well. I hope im wrong, but I'm just not buying it.


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## Dcm81 (Feb 6, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> I think these clearly aren't live play-throughs, so I see no reason to believe all these effects were live and not added post-production, but I take no issue with that stuff anyways. He has obviously no qualms with his over-the-top and stylistic use of post-production so I don't see why he'd have any problems with behind the scenes doctoring of his playing as well. I hope im wrong, but I'm just not buying it.



He's got a couple of unedited "tutorials" for some of the riffs.......also old Reflections playthroughs are partly unedited iirc - even back then he/they were a fan of the squiggly wiggly wih wah effects 
Don't know how clean he'll be able to play the stuff if he were to try and do a whole song in one take but he can definately play the parts.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

I think he can definitely play the parts, though I don't think he's worried about full songs live etc. He was in Reflections (when they were doing crazy stuff) and he's all about being an independent musician, I've bought a few of his tabs and it's definitely playable just takes a good bit of practice, and he practices a lot I believe.

I've also added a bunch of harmonies to tapped stuff I've done before and it makes things sound a lot more chaotic than standard, so when you hear it, it sounds mental but it's actually not.

If you heard Jason Richardson in a similar context would you question him? He's got some very midi sounds on his album, but he's done a lot live. Charles doesn't really like touring much, he has a little book out on his pitfalls in the industry which was quite an interesting read.

Here's a couple tutorials, you can hear in the 2nd one his tone is pretty digital and gated to sh*t, but he does play the riffs at pretty much full at points.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

I really, really, really, wanna like this, but I'm kinda in the same boat. I want just like ONE live playthrough video of a whole song, with just drums and bass..no harmonies, no extra guitars. I love this kind of music, but I'd like to see it live, which will never happen, so I kinda ignore it when it pops up on FB so I don't get too excited.


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## vilk (Feb 6, 2018)

NEVERMIND


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## technomancer (Feb 6, 2018)

Apologies in advance but


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 6, 2018)

Nothing in his video playthroughs is recorded by conventual means. He edits every note together one by one and then mimes along to it. In the 2nd video listen to how there is zero note bleed from one note to another, no slides and everything is surgically perfect in length and on the beat. Thats perfectly fine for albums, so many bands do that and it can sound fantastic but I find it a but much when he makes videos pretending to play with his foot or boasting about his skill. There was a FB post where he was called out on it and admitted to it but said he wouldn't make live play throughs. 

Its the equivalent of taking a 10KG weight, writing in another 0 at the end, lifting it once, then looping the footage 10 times so people think you lifted 100kgs 10 times. Anyone can do that. The guy might be an incredible player, I'm sure he is to write this kind of music but there is little skill in doing recordings/videos like this, s**t ton of editing though, can't imagine trying to edit together a million takes in a hyper technical piece like that. 

It works for him and he's gotten quite popular doing it so fair play. The guitar scene is completely over saturated at the moment so I guess you have to resort to things like this to stand out.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 6, 2018)

I'm in the category of "Who Cares" because I don't like the music whether actually played or not.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 6, 2018)

If your called out on something like this, you follow it up with a bitchin video showing that you can in fact play it. If he didn’t make that vid, he can’t play this shit. Seems shady as fuck and have no respect for someone like that. Does that mean the music bad? No. But don’t lie about what your capable of.


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## eggy in a bready (Feb 6, 2018)

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> Less berried and more buried for this dude.



came to post


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> Seems like another recording at half speed kinda guy.


Thanks Vinnie Vincent.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

Ugh, is this the sort of shit kids claim is music now? They both have nothing remotely musical, and the mechanical, robotic tone is just dog shit.

Fuck you, Dingleberried Alive or whatever the fuck the bands called. Vinnie Vincent of 2018 confirmed.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

technomancer said:


> Apologies in advance but



We should. This shit ruins whatever reputation rock and metal has left. People certainly gave a shit in the 1980s when Vinnie released an album with a solo in F over a song with a rhythm part in E.


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## eggy in a bready (Feb 6, 2018)




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## technomancer (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> We should. This shit ruins whatever reputation rock and metal has left. People certainly gave a shit in the 1980s when Vinnie released an album with a solo in F over a song with a rhythm part in E.



Rock and metal mostly has no reputation left and as you pointed out this shit is terrible... so I stand by my original post


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

technomancer said:


> Rock and metal mostly has no reputation left and as you pointed out this shit is terrible... so I stand by my original post


Fair enough. Between this horse shit and Venom, I'd much rather listen to Venom.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> We should. This shit ruins whatever reputation rock and metal has left. People certainly gave a shit in the 1980s when Vinnie released an album with a solo in F over a song with a rhythm part in E.


No one apart from internet kids care about sped up music, and there is no reputation left anyway.

Dudes can play blisteringly fast today, honestly I don't care about it, I like charles music and I usually practice some fun sections of his music for technical ability.


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## wat (Feb 6, 2018)

What's the story with Vinnie Vincent?


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## prlgmnr (Feb 6, 2018)

Sounds like you could probably learn to play it in the time you spend surgically placing notes one at a time.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 6, 2018)

Came across this on facebook nonstop as well. Not surprising that this MIDI bs also functions as spam.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

wat said:


> What's the story with Vinnie Vincent?


He sped up his solos to sound faster and it shows, but his fanboys will defend to the death that he didn't do it.


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## Winspear (Feb 6, 2018)

Ok,
Regarding people having an issue finding out guitar playthrough videos aren't live audio - each to their own, but this kind of seems to be missing the point. They are _music videos_. When bands release music videos and those videos happen to contain footage of the band playing in a warehouse or whatever, obviously there is no live audio. It's a video for the studio recording. It's becoming more and more important for studio recordings to be accompanied by some form of video. The guitar playthrough is the music video that makes 'guitar nerd' music marketable. It needs a video, and what else are most people going to do for a video when they are just making music in their room on a budget? Especially given the majority of the audience are guitarists who want to see how things are played and what cool gear is involved. That's the scene, that's why these videos exist.
Do we want live audio? Personally, no. I want to hear the perfected studio recording. Of course there is always room for live footage releases too, but the main 'music video' for marketing is not the place for anything other than a perfect studio recording and mix in my opinion.

So that's video context covered.
Now onto the music:

Music is one thing only. Sound that may be listened to for entertainment. Sound that isn't just noise. A lot of this music isn't performed. There is the electronic music genre obviously. Then the huge amount of programmed orchestras and such in TV and movie soundtracks. These are obviously widely accepted (unless you are somebody who thinks electro isn't real music - in which case discussion is pointless). Then onto programmed drums, less widely accepted but becoming moreso, especially by guitarists. What about programmed guitars? There comes the issue it seems.
Two reasons I can see behind this - a feeling of being threatened as a guitarist. Understandable, but this should really be an aside from enjoying music. Either that, or it's that you think metal is all about talent and shred. If that's the case I think you should rethink why you listen to music. Is this mindset not in a way validating the ridiculous attack that some metal receives - that it's all about chops rather than music? If your favourite record of all time were to suddenly be discovered as being programmed, would you no longer like it?
A musicians skill and excellent performance is absolutely an awesome thing and can certainly add something to music. But I think the appreciation of the skill should be an aside from appreciation of the music. They can exist independently. Try to just listen to the music and forget what's behind it, because it really shouldn't matter at all how something was made.

Production:
There is a big difference between 'MIDI' and 'edited guitars'. Modern metal has increasingly extreme editing to the guitars. This doesn't make it MIDI or programmed, though sure, carried to the extreme they are almost the same thing. But a guitarist who edits can still generally play their parts well. If they can't play them well live and are trying to make a career gigging the same musical material then yes, there needs to be some work. But otherwise, what's the issue? Let somebody make the sound they desire. If the aesthetic of perfect robotic metal isn't for you, that's absolutely fine. For the record I don't enjoy this artist either. Though I do enjoy a perfectly edited sound in general, as long as the musical content is enjoyable for me. I don't enjoy this music but I do accept that robotic production is absolutely essential to make superalienshredcore sound at all audibly clear. It's like some crazy electro with a metal basis - what's wrong with that?
You need to ask yourself the question - Whilst the material may quite obviously be programmed or edited, would you enjoy it if it wasn't? If it sounded exactly the same but was played normally, would you enjoy it then?

Learning to take music for what it is and separate it from the process (can be hard as a musician, I know) can only be a good thing. What does it sound like? Do you like the sound? Both in terms of production and composition. That's all. Forget everything else about it - talent and method are a complete aside.


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## Lasik124 (Feb 6, 2018)

This is whats wrong with metal today.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

Lasik124 said:


> This is whats wrong with metal today.


This is the kind of shit that devalues the fucking business, makes the bands look like a shitty, godawful gimmick, and gives hard working bands with some great talent look like a fucking joke. Some sideshow circus act that has little to offer other than, "Hurrdurr, look what I can do!" because his songs stink and none of it is in the least bit musical or melodic.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 6, 2018)

Winspear, I definitely do not think that guitar playthroughs are modern music videos. If anything, lyric videos are more akin to music videos, seeing as how they give the listener the "message" of the song. Not to get off on too deep of a tangent, but I miss music videos because of their abstract nature, as opposed to today's lyrics videos with TEXT THAT YOU CAN READ AND FOLLOW ALONG LIKE A BARNEY SINGALONG.

Guitar playthroughs are meant to show you how songs are played, and (used to) show how songs sound as they're played. If someone decided to learn a Berried Alive song by watching a playthrough, they'll soon come to realize that what they're playing does not sound like what they're listening to. No amount of practice will help because it's been edited half to death. That, to me, is pretty messed up and also delegitimizes the whole video. Why even make a playthrough if it's not real? It becomes a "ooo look at me and my guitar" video.

If this guy were to post a legitimate playthrough video, it would include an 11-hr Pro Tools session. No thanks.


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## bostjan (Feb 6, 2018)

Right.

This video really seems to be meant as an exhibition of skill, particlarly with the creator touting how many hours a day he practices and so forth.

Maybe he can play this stuff for real, maybe not. Sounds so fake, though, who cares?! If I wanted to write MIDI music and then say "hey, check out my MIDI compositions," that's cool, but if I write a bunch of MIDI files, run them through an AXE FX and then say "look at how fucking awesome I am at guitar, because I practice 12 hours straight every day and never stop to piss," then I'd be a douchebag. In the state of the music industry today, though, being such a douchebag gets you all sorts of attention. So, if you like this, cool, like it share it whatever on social media, but if I see it on social media or here, and I click on it and hear obvious MIDI tracks and see them touted as real guitar, I'm just going to ignore it. We've seen it so many times already and now it's gotten annoying.


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## bostjan (Feb 6, 2018)

Sorry for the double post, but I can't edit my last post.

This kind of strikes a nerve with me, since, when I released _Vol I_, a couple of folks accused me of using MIDI for the guitar. I used MIDI for the drums on most of the tracks, and I never tried to hide that fact, but I never ran anything else through MIDI and only made very minor edits to the guitar, and it's not even like I played anything amazing on it anyway, it just seems to be some people's go-to response...

Yet this kind of stuff gets posted and, from the look of the comments, everyone is worshipping this guy as their new god, when it's very clearly fake.


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## Winspear (Feb 6, 2018)

With regards to the two comments after mine - I think that's a perfect example of what I was talking about. I'd agree this music is pretty terrible, but I do not think in any way that there is anything wrong with the foundation and aesthetic behind it. Fuss about the reputation of the metal scene and such things seem childish to me. Just make and consume whatever art you enjoy and let others do the same. Stop holding metal up as some holy superior genre.

As my post above makes clear, I have no issue with edited music - but it is lame if somebody tries to pretend its real or insist they didn't edit it. But for the most part in this genre that is not the case. People just release things and assume listeners either don't care, or already know and take for granted that there is plenty of editing. Why would they feel the need to write that it was edited? Though yes, they should reply honestly if questioned about the production process and make clear that it's a given and a must for the aesthetic of the genre. Unlike Lucas Mann who continued to lie and insist it was all legit, haha.

To put it in other words - do you have a problem with blockbuster movies because of special fx and editing? Or do you just accept that they are a very different artform to a stage play? Do you think a blockbluster movie should make obvious claims about how it was made? Or has the viewer just gotten to a point where they know and accept that it's edited because that's just how it's done in that genre and is a crucial part of the aesthetic? Why can't music be the same way?



Eptaceros said:


> Winspear, I definitely do not think that guitar playthroughs are modern music videos. If anything, lyric videos are more akin to music videos, seeing as how they give the listener the "message" of the song. Not to get off on too deep of a tangent, but I miss music videos because of their abstract nature, as opposed to today's lyrics videos with TEXT THAT YOU CAN READ AND FOLLOW ALONG LIKE A BARNEY SINGALONG.
> 
> Guitar playthroughs are meant to show you how songs are played, and (used to) show how songs sound as they're played. If someone decided to learn a Berried Alive song by watching a playthrough, they'll soon come to realize that what they're playing does not sound like what they're listening to. No amount of practice will help because it's been edited half to death. That, to me, is pretty messed up and also delegitimizes the whole video. Why even make a playthrough if it's not real? It becomes a "ooo look at me and my guitar" video.
> 
> If this guy were to post a legitimate playthrough video, it would include an 11-hr Pro Tools session. No thanks.



I understand the view but I think you miss my point a bit. They aren't a replacement for music videos from big artists. Big bands release a proper music video (AND playthrough music videos if their audience are guitarists and they are on the marketing game). These bedroom one-man-band guitar projects though, only really have this as an option for their 'music videos'. It serves the same purpose - it gives the music a platform. Because these days , you can't release music without a Youtube video to accompany it if you want it to get anywhere. Their audience are guitarists, they are on a budget, so they just film themselves playing and release this as the official 'music video'. It's not meant to be a live performance in any way.
Lyric videos are a perfect example of this necessity. They are quick content that can be thrown together on a budget and released with every song from an album if the band wishes, as opposed to big production music videos. Lyric videos exist because music needs a Youtube video to be marketable (and they do better than simply a still picture)


Just want to clarify I do think this music is turd  Just a lot of the reasons I see for people attacking it seem to be ungrounded in my opinion


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> Right.
> 
> This video really seems to be meant as an exhibition of skill, particlarly with the creator touting how many hours a day he practices and so forth.
> 
> Maybe he can play this stuff for real, maybe not. Sounds so fake, though, who cares?! If I wanted to write MIDI music and then say "hey, check out my MIDI compositions," that's cool, but if I write a bunch of MIDI files, run them through an AXE FX and then say "look at how fucking awesome I am at guitar, because I practice 12 hours straight every day and never stop to piss," then I'd be a douchebag. In the state of the music industry today, though, being such a douchebag gets you all sorts of attention. So, if you like this, cool, like it share it whatever on social media, but if I see it on social media or here, and I click on it and hear obvious MIDI tracks and see them touted as real guitar, I'm just going to ignore it. We've seen it so many times already and now it's gotten annoying.


he uses a Pod HD Pro, not an axe fx btw....


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> This video really seems to be meant as an exhibition of skill, particlarly with the creator touting how many hours a day he practices and so forth.


How about practicing the art of writing a goddamn SONG that people want to pay to listen to. Fucking Christ.



lewis said:


> he uses a Pod HD Pro, not an axe fx btw....


Maybe if some braindead morons enjoys listening to this robotic horse shit and he sells enough singles on iTunes, he might be able to have enough to upgrade to a second hand Axe FX.


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## penguin_316 (Feb 6, 2018)

I dig it, and as far as not being able to play? Check more of his videos, there’s at least a video or two of him playing solos with a stopwatch in the background. Seemed legit to me...


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> How about practicing the art of writing a goddamn SONG that people want to pay to listen to. Fucking Christ.
> 
> 
> Maybe if some braindead morons enjoys listening to this robotic horse shit and he sells enough singles on iTunes, he might be able to have enough to upgrade to a second hand Axe FX.



I mean ok you dont like it. Every style of music is entirely subjective. Alot of people now, wouldnt care for shit from the 80s.
I for example fucking hate Iron Maiden. But i dont get this angry online posting about how shit they are.

Just relax dude. No one physically makes people have to listen to music they dont like. i like his style personally.

"Let it go, let it goooooo"


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

lewis said:


> I mean ok you dont like it. Every style of music is entirely subjective. Alot of people now, wouldnt care for shit from the 80s.
> I for example fucking hate Iron Maiden. But i dont get this angry online posting about how shit they are.
> 
> Just relax dude. No one physically makes people have to listen to music they dont like. i like his style personally.
> ...


When Metal no longer exists and the only shit you have to listen to is prepackaged, overly doctored pop bs, come talk to me and see if I overreacted.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> This is the kind of shit that devalues the fucking business, makes the bands look like a shitty, godawful gimmick, and gives hard working bands with some great talent look like a fucking joke. Some sideshow circus act that has little to offer other than, "Hurrdurr, look what I can do!" because his songs stink and none of it is in the least bit musical or melodic.





Spaced Out Ace said:


> How about practicing the art of writing a goddamn SONG that people want to pay to listen to. Fucking Christ.
> 
> 
> Maybe if some braindead morons enjoys listening to this robotic horse shit and he sells enough singles on iTunes, he might be able to have enough to upgrade to a second hand Axe FX.



Seriously dude might wanna calm down, you sound like a 12 year old. This stuff does not devalue metal music. Because it's not being played live and the people that do try to play it live get called out and chucked out the scene pretty quickly until they get their act together I.E. Rings of Saturn, Al Mumin (he's still not making a great case for coming back)

This music is created for listening, he's not going "come to my tour" he's just making music (if you think it's all programmed thats fine then think of it as similar to EDM). As for your opinion on his music I suggest you grow up. There are parts of his music I don't get but theres some really tasty parts, he has a few really nice solos in his catalogue. Just chill.

As for the Axe FX, he's actually said he'd rather just save money and use the tones from a POD, he used it while his other guitarist in Reflections used an Axe. Also John browne from Momuments used and still uses a POD. 

Anup Sastry has a full album (or even 2 I think) with programmed guitars btw.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> When Metal no longer exists and the only shit you have to listen to is prepackaged, overly doctored pop bs, come talk to me and see if I overreacted.


Thats what metal is. To an often more extreme degree than pop. Have you heard modern metal? Get your head out of your ass.


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## penguin_316 (Feb 6, 2018)

Can’t find the videos right now since I’m at work, but if he is miming (which I’m sure he is) it seems to follow he can play it live.

Not everything he plays is gold, but overall I like the ideas and execution.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

penguin_316 said:


> I dig it, and as far as not being able to play? Check more of his videos, there’s at least a video or two of him playing solos with a stopwatch in the background. Seemed legit to me...


Of course he CAN play, but most of the music he releases, it wouldn't matter if he did or not because it sounds like guitar pro through odin through amp sims. My current retaliation (I guess) to the complete oversaturation of music right now is: If you're not attempting to play out, I don't care. Even if its a one-man-bedroom-band and they're from another country and I would never see them live anyways, if I don't see that they have live videos/shows set-up/etc, I can't care. Everyone and their sister's dog can be a "band" between MIDI, Editing, and HD video, and a lot of it is enjoyable as a listening experience, but if you're not out there trying to give it to people, I'll find a similar sound from someone who is, and I really like this type of music. Dude is only a state away from me, but I can't go see him live because:
1) He doesn't play live
2) He doesn't play live because the music would never live up to the videos
3) with as loud as the "harmonies" and other stuff is mixed, it would be a boring-ass live show anyways


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Seriously dude might wanna calm down, you sound like a 12 year old. This stuff does not devalue metal music. Because it's not being played live and the people that do try to play it live get called out and chucked out the scene pretty quickly until they get their act together I.E. Rings of Saturn, Al Mumin (he's still not making a great case for coming back)
> 
> This music is created for listening, he's not going "come to my tour" he's just making music (if you think it's all programmed thats fine then think of it as similar to EDM). As for your opinion on his music I suggest you grow up. There are parts of his music I don't get but theres some really tasty parts, he has a few really nice solos in his catalogue. Just chill.
> 
> ...


It doesn't? Huh, seems to me like metal isn't that popular in the general populace, but this doesn't devalue metal.

But I am just sounding like a twelve year old. You can keep your personal insults.


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> When Metal no longer exists and the only shit you have to listen to is prepackaged, overly doctored pop bs, come talk to me and see if I overreacted.


I think personally, the genre starting to subside is down to way way more factors than just blaming its evolution into a style you personally dont like.
For example, technology has made too many "gig goers" lazy.
I even saw a company recently who offer paid pro streams of concerts so you can watch gigs live now from your sofa.

Shit like that has ruined live music and this genre more than the sound of heavy music. Also, everyone and anyone being able to record at home now thanks to technology has also over saturated the genre. The more people see metal bands around them, the more they stop caring about it.


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## downburst82 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> When Metal no longer exists and the only shit you have to listen to is prepackaged, overly doctored pop bs, come talk to me and see if I overreacted.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Thats what metal is. To an often more extreme degree than pop. Have you heard modern metal? Get your head out of your ass.


More insults. Weak.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

lewis said:


> I think personally, the genre starting to subside is down to way way more factors than just blaming its evolution into a style you personally dont like.
> For example, technology has made too many "gig goers" lazy.
> I even saw a company recently who offer paid pro streams of concerts so you can watch gigs live now from your sofa.
> 
> Shit like that has ruined live music and this genre more than the sound of heavy music. Also, everyone and anyone being able to record at home now thanks to technology has also over saturated the genre. The more people see metal bands around them, the more they stop caring about it.


I'd rather watch a show from my sofa that crammed next to a bunch of other people, but I have issues with crowds, so yeah.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> More insults. Weak.


Well, you do sound like either an angry child or a grumpy old man, lol


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> Well, you do sound like either an angry child or a grumpy old man, lol


Why? Because I dislike bs like this and Frank Zappa hologram ideas making a mockery of music genres I enjoy? This isn't even music, and some are saying the guy is possibly using midi.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> More insults. Weak.


I'm the one being insulting while you call someone else's music robotic horse sh*t?

I'm saying you getting worked up about this in such a way is childish, which if you take a step back and look at your responses, is true.

So lets look at devaluing real bands. If a band gets up and tries to mime live, they get kicked off stage, it's been proven, HAARP Machine. And no one really wants to see them live.

If a "real talent" band can't get up and make money over that band that can't play live then they aren't worth anything anyway, because the majority of your income will come from live shows.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Why? Because I dislike bs like this and Frank Zappa hologram ideas making a mockery of music genres I enjoy? This isn't even music, and some are saying the guy is possibly using midi.



Define music to us.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> I'm the one being insulting while you call someone else's music robotic horse sh*t?
> 
> I'm saying you getting worked up about this in such a way is childish, which if you take a step back and look at your responses, is true.
> 
> ...


Is it not robotic? People are saying that's it's possibly midi. Anyways, this is last response you're getting.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is it not robotic? People are saying that's it's possibly midi. Anyways, this is last response you're getting.


Fallujah sound robotic at times. As does the Faceless, and a handful of other modern tech/shred stuff.

It possibly is, but there are tutorials of him playing stuff at pretty much full speed, theres no backing track so I can't tell.

But what if he plays in parts, he plays one section in, then moves to the next section. Is that wrong? Thats how most of modern metal is done.


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## Winspear (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> This isn't even music, and some are saying the guy is possibly using midi.



MIDI or not, it's music. You have no arguement here whatsoever


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## Winspear (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Define music to us.


It can only be played by grumpy jaded old men I guess


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## bostjan (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> I'm the one being insulting while you call someone else's music robotic horse sh*t?
> 
> I'm saying you getting worked up about this in such a way is childish, which if you take a step back and look at your responses, is true.
> 
> ...



When did the HAARP Machine get kicked off the stage? I've seen them even make a comeback.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> When did the HAARP Machine get kicked off the stage? I've seen them even make a comeback.


I don't think they literally got kicked off, but the first tour was laughing stock because dude couldn't hardly play any of his stuff.
As far as come back, all I've seen are like two hyper-editing videos of little snippets. It was pretty easy to tell on the recordings on the first album that that stuff was pieced together/editing to high hell, but he was AWFUL from the videos of that first tour. It's one thing to not nail it 100% to the editing, its another to sound like total ass.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> When did the HAARP Machine get kicked off the stage? I've seen them even make a comeback.



Maybe one of those stories but I heard when they tried to do the first run of tours they were getting boo'd cause AL-Mumin was just not up to par.

I've seen them try or rather, him. They were signed up to play techfest 2017, Al got a 2nd guitarist, for 6 months the guy learned old and new songs. Week before techfest, Al fired him with no real reason.


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## downburst82 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Why? Because I dislike bs like this and Frank Zappa hologram ideas making a mockery of music genres I enjoy? This isn't even music, and some are saying the guy is possibly using midi.


Zappa used midi.....


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

And I'm pretty sure at one point he said he liked MIDI/programming better than working with real musicians...


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

regards to Haarp machine.
I know a guy who was supposed to be the session drummer for their comeback Tech Fest performance. And yet again like right before the show was due, the main dude (the sloppy guitarist bellend) fecked it all up and cancelled everything citing "he didnt feel the band were ready"

yet all the dudes he had recruited incl my drummer mate, had been working flat out to get the set tight as hell for AGES before the show date. He is obviously a complete, lazy musician.
Haarp Machine do not deserve any more chances after this latest one.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 6, 2018)

Winspear said:


> I understand the view but I think you miss my point a bit. They aren't a replacement for music videos from big artists. Big bands release a proper music video (AND playthrough music videos if their audience are guitarists and they are on the marketing game). These bedroom one-man-band guitar projects though, only really have this as an option for their 'music videos'. It serves the same purpose - it gives the music a platform. Because these days , you can't release music without a Youtube video to accompany it if you want it to get anywhere. Their audience are guitarists, they are on a budget, so they just film themselves playing and release this as the official 'music video'. It's not meant to be a live performance in any way.
> Lyric videos are a perfect example of this necessity. They are quick content that can be thrown together on a budget and released with every song from an album if the band wishes, as opposed to big production music videos. Lyric videos exist because music needs a Youtube video to be marketable (and they do better than simply a still picture)
> 
> 
> Just want to clarify I do think this music is turd  Just a lot of the reasons I see for people attacking it seem to be ungrounded in my opinion



I fully understand your point. 

The whole cheap/quick marketing aspect is exactly what I find troubling. Lyric videos, mime playthroughs, etc...all of that stuff can take a backseat to the actual music. That's what should be the central focus, not "How can I exploit a platform to boost impressions?" It all makes perfect sense from a business perspective, but music (especially metal) should not be prioritizing marketing. As an example, Bulb was a bedroom guitarist that wrote amazing music and released real playthrough videos. Sure, the videos probably helped get eyes on his product, but in the end, it was the quality of the music that attracted people and led to the hype surrounding Periphery before they were even an active band.

And yes, I do have a problem with all the CGI in blockbuster films.


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

lewis said:


> regards to Haarp machine.
> I know a guy who was supposed to be the session drummer for their comeback Tech Fest performance. And yet again like right before the show was due, the main dude (the sloppy guitarist bellend) fecked it all up and cancelled everything citing "he didnt feel the band were ready"
> 
> yet all the dudes he had recruited incl my drummer mate, had been working flat out to get the set tight as hell for AGES before the show date. He is obviously a complete, lazy musician.
> Haarp Machine do not deserve any more chances after this latest one.


It's a shame the guitarist who got dropped before techfest said the newest album was something really special. Regardless of editing I'd of loved to hear it.


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> It's a shame the guitarist who got dropped before techfest said the newest album was something really special. Regardless of editing I'd of loved to hear it.


yeah its what we were getting told this end too. It is a shame, but on the other hand, he does not really deserve any acclaim with how he is.


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## lewis (Feb 6, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Maybe one of those stories but I heard when they tried to do the first run of tours they were getting boo'd cause AL-Mumin was just not up to par.
> 
> I've seen them try or rather, him. They were signed up to play techfest 2017, Al got a 2nd guitarist, for 6 months the guy learned old and new songs. Week before techfest, Al fired him with no real reason.


and the worst part is, the dude is incredibly arrogant and was rejecting guitarist auditions because anyone joining his band, had to be able to execute the songs technically flawlessly, yet he himself looked useless playing his own songs live.

he doesnt come across as being down to earth at all. Arrogance and ignorace has ruined him


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## cip 123 (Feb 6, 2018)

Al was not a nice dude, I believe he originally threatened Arson against some of the guys in the HAARP Machine.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 6, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> Lyric videos, mime playthroughs, etc...all of that stuff can take a backseat to the actual music. That's what should be the central focus, not "How can I exploit a platform to boost impressions?" It all makes perfect sense from a business perspective, but music (especially metal) should not be prioritizing marketing.



If you don't appeal to the market, nobody hears your music, if nobody hears your music, nothing can ever be "about the music" because nobody will hear it. It's not 1995. You can't just be the "really good local band in your area" for a few years and have word of mouth carry you to bigger shows/record deals/etc. You gotta pimp yourself on EVERY AVAILABLE MEDIUM so people can see you, and maybe, just maybe give a crap about the music...or the image....or your gear....whatever it takes to to keep them coming back/sharing/buying/talking about your stuff. I guess if we all wanna be nobodies with integrity metal can stop prioritizing marketing.....


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> How about practicing the art of writing a goddamn SONG that people want to pay to listen to. Fucking Christ.



I don't even like this band, but I'll bite. So he has to make a product that people like for you to personally enjoy it? So is it a song that *you* personally like or others? A demographic clearly enjoys this music evidenced by his likes/follows/comments/views, so now your comment basically boils down to "I don't like this, so this fucking sucks".

Which yes, is pretty childish. It's also hilarious that you think bedroom shredders that record and play music this way are the reason the music industry is dying 

Totally not piracy, people not going to shows as much, and not actually supporting acts they enjoy as enthusiastically as they did in the past. Fuck this kid in particular for single handedly taking down metal and the music industry. I sincerely hope I never sour as badly as you have with age, because your mentality and comments are the kind of thing putting down people from writing music they enjoy writing. There's not a single way to do anything, and I bet a few of your favorites probably chopped up a few licks and riffs on your favorite albums during the recording of the albums. If you're going to be consistent with whatever your argument is, then equally hate on every artist who has ever stitched an album or notes together.



GunpointMetal said:


> If you don't appeal to the market, nobody hears your music, if nobody hears your music, nothing can ever be "about the music" because nobody will hear it. It's not 1995. You can't just be the "really good local band in your area" for a few years and have word of mouth carry you to bigger shows/record deals/etc. You gotta pimp yourself on EVERY AVAILABLE MEDIUM so people can see you, and maybe, just maybe give a crap about the music...or the image....or your gear....whatever it takes to to keep them coming back/sharing/buying/talking about your stuff. I guess if we all wanna be nobodies with integrity metal can stop prioritizing marketing.....



Believe it or not, this still happens. It perfectly describes how Chon rose in popularity, first example I could think of. Started a band when they were teens and just kept writing music and touring until people picked up on their talent and a label picked them up and helped them promote themselves. Their self marketing felt practically non-existent, yet people who enjoyed it supported them.

If you want to play in a cover band or write predictable music that people will all like go for it. But these outlooks are so bleak and negative that I have to wonder how hard people look for actual talent these days.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 6, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> If you don't appeal to the market, nobody hears your music, if nobody hears your music, nothing can ever be "about the music" because nobody will hear it. It's not 1995. You can't just be the "really good local band in your area" for a few years and have word of mouth carry you to bigger shows/record deals/etc. You gotta pimp yourself on EVERY AVAILABLE MEDIUM so people can see you, and maybe, just maybe give a crap about the music...or the image....or your gear....whatever it takes to to keep them coming back/sharing/buying/talking about your stuff. I guess if we all wanna be nobodies with integrity metal can stop prioritizing marketing.....



I feel like you're taking my point and reallllllllly stretching it to the extreme here. Obviously, as a modern band, you should have your music available on as many channels as possible (Youtube, Facebook, Spotify, etc). When it comes to cheesy ass lyric videos and mime playthroughs, that is a step too far, for me. These are cheap and quick ways that detract from the actual music, not too dissimilar from stuff like all the KISS merchandise.


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## Winspear (Feb 6, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> These are cheap and quick ways that detract from the actual music



I don't disagree at all - but in such a saturated market where everybody has the ability to make a product, they are a necessity to keep pushing out media to allow yourself to actually be heard. To find viewers to actually hear the 'proper product' - the album on Spotify or whatever you have available like you mentioned. Unless you have a budget to do a pro music video for every song instead, there really is no better option. Gotta get that content out, and you bet it's gotta be a Youtube link. Then the real listeners will of course enjoy the music in its pure form or without the distraction of a lyric video etc.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Feb 6, 2018)

Just going to drop this here. 4:21


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Feb 6, 2018)

It relates because all kinds of bands write an album and THEN learn it


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## Avedas (Feb 6, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> When Metal no longer exists and the only shit you have to listen to is prepackaged, overly doctored pop bs, come talk to me and see if I overreacted.


Most metal sounds pretty bad anyway so no huge loss there.

Anyway I guess it doesn't really matter if a dude can play his own song or not if the song sounds awful. Personal tastes and all that are cool, but it's definitely not worth having any sort of pissing contest over, not to mention the whole "he's not actually playing" whinefest. Who gives a shit. It's only "degrading metal" if you have some sort of weird personal identity invested into something as intangible and loosely defined as a musical genre.

Jason Richardson seems like a pretty cool guy. Excellent technical player. Can not stand his music though.


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## BangandBreach (Feb 6, 2018)

this thread right now


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## penguin_316 (Feb 6, 2018)

After replaying a bunch of the berries alive vids with a more scrutiny, it definitely seems sped up in general. However, not massively...maybe %10-15. You know just enough to seem inhuman but still look legit. 

It’s hard to say for sure, editing has come so far.


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## Necris (Feb 6, 2018)

You fool, you've fallen into his clever viral marketing trap and are contributing to the spread of his music! :tinfoilhat:


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 7, 2018)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't even like this band, but I'll bite. So he has to make a product that people like for you to personally enjoy it? So is it a song that *you* personally like or others? A demographic clearly enjoys this music evidenced by his likes/follows/comments/views, so now your comment basically boils down to "I don't like this, so this fucking sucks".


I don't care for Periphery's music, but I like Mark Holcomb quite a bit, and think that while it's not for me, they do have a decent grasp of melody, writing songs, and -- you know -- making _music. _What a shocker.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 7, 2018)

Avedas said:


> Most metal sounds pretty bad anyway so no huge loss there.
> 
> Anyway I guess it doesn't really matter if a dude can play his own song or not if the song sounds awful. Personal tastes and all that are cool, but it's definitely not worth having any sort of pissing contest over, not to mention the whole "he's not actually playing" whinefest. Who gives a shit. It's only "degrading metal" if you have some sort of weird personal identity invested into something as intangible and loosely defined as a musical genre.
> 
> Jason Richardson seems like a pretty cool guy. Excellent technical player. Can not stand his music though.


I don't have some "weird personal identity invested into something intangible"; I'd just rather have music to listen to instead of rap, country, and other bullshit that for the most part doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. At least I can give rap some credit, because they'll call out bullshit that devalues what they do, but if you do that in metal and rock [ie, this fucking clown and these godawful Greta Van We Wish We Were Led Zeppelin cunts], everyone shits themselves.


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## brutalwizard (Feb 7, 2018)

This week on SSO

Metal elitist vs Metal," rap, country, and other bullshit that for the most part doesn't appeal to me in the slightest".


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## Avedas (Feb 7, 2018)

brutalwizard said:


> This week on SSO
> 
> Metal elitist vs Metal," rap, country, and other bullshit that for the most part doesn't appeal to me in the slightest".


It's like a trip back to high school


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## eggy in a bready (Feb 7, 2018)

y'know what would be cool?

more venom


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 7, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I don't care for Periphery's music, but I like Mark Holcomb quite a bit, and think that while it's not for me, they do have a decent grasp of melody, writing songs, and -- you know -- making _music. _What a shocker.



Thankfully that's not how music is defined, this still pretty much falls under "I dislike it, therefore it sucks".

That's the whole idea of it, completely subjective and personal taste. I respect Mark a lot too, but the identity of the musician has nothing to do with wether what they write or not is music. Music is music, any sort of musical composition can be classified as music. And that's the beauty of it. My roommate may love Defeated Sanity and Origin, while I prefer The Black Dahlia Murder and Revocation, and my neighbor prefers Bachata style music. I'd wager they'd call a lot of music me and my roommate enjoy harsh angry noise with no semblance of musicality, but we both know that's not true.

EDIT: Didn't read your next comment, what stunning ignorance.


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## drmosh (Feb 7, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I don't have some "weird personal identity invested into something intangible"; I'd just rather have music to listen to instead of rap, country, and other bullshit that for the most part doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. At least I can give rap some credit, because they'll call out bullshit that devalues what they do, but if you do that in metal and rock [ie, this fucking clown and these godawful Greta Van We Wish We Were Led Zeppelin cunts], everyone shits themselves.



Guess what though, nobody gives a shit what you think and nobody is going to make music specifically for YOU.


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## jwade (Feb 7, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I don't have some "weird personal identity invested into something intangible"; I'd just rather have music to listen to instead of rap, country, and other bullshit that for the most part doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. At least I can give rap some credit, because they'll call out bullshit that devalues what they do, but if you do that in metal and rock [ie, this fucking clown and these godawful Greta Van We Wish We Were Led Zeppelin cunts], everyone shits themselves.



Do you ever re-read what you're typing, and think "Am I really this unpleasant? Should I really post this?"

Because you should seriously think hard about whether this violent, ignorant, obsessively rude energy of yours needs to be put out into the world.


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## oc616 (Feb 7, 2018)

Can't say as I really care at this point. Been listening to so much for the *music *nowadays and have no interest in live shows since they died a death in my county with the same acts that have been doing pubs for the last 10 years or so. If it offends you that people find this interesting over Dream Theater clone #328, who's most "recent" influential addition to their sound is a bit more mids in the tone ala Periphery (god forbid they'll dare admit it though), then I'm sorry to say time has passed your tastes by. Hell, even this Berry fellow is 10 or so years old as far as innovation goes at this point.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 7, 2018)

I love when threads like these pop up, it really shows who's fallen behind in the times and can't accept that metal is one of the most diverse and ever changing genres. If you can't deal with some dude in his bedroom making music for fun and it somehow offends you and your "true music cred" then maybe you should just take a break and re-evaluate what life choices have led you to become so fucking petty. Art is art, I wouldn't tell some dude his digital painting sucks just because using a brush and canvas is the "true" way to do it.


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## Winspear (Feb 7, 2018)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> I love when threads like these pop up, it really shows who's fallen behind in the times and can't accept that metal is one of the most diverse and ever changing genres. If you can't deal with some dude in his bedroom making music for fun and it somehow offends you and your "true music cred" then maybe you should just take a break and re-evaluate what life choices have led you to become so fucking petty. Art is art, I wouldn't tell some dude his digital painting sucks just because using a brush and canvas is the "true" way to do it.



Word. I live in a bubble for the most part online, surrounded by pleasant, creative, and open minded people. It's a harsh reminder sometimes whenever discussion like this pops up that there are plenty of absolute buffoons out there  I don't understand why some people seem to find it so difficult to have a specific and strict music taste, without being an elitist and bitching about everything else.


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## cip 123 (Feb 7, 2018)

I just wanna hear SpacedOutAce teach a Berklee class on melody now.


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 7, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> When it comes to cheesy ass lyric videos and mime playthroughs, that is a step too far, for me. These are cheap and quick ways that detract from the actual music, not too dissimilar from stuff like all the KISS merchandise.


I don't understand how it devalues/detracts from the music? Is a "cheap" playthrough video in the woods any different than a "cheap" music video that has like 30 seconds of bad acting mixed in with the band miming to the song? Lyric videos are cool because I'd say about 1/3 of my (and lots of people's) music consumption comes in the form of YouTube playlists and its cooler than just having the song playing with the album cover floating in space next to the song title for 3 minutes. About the only way it devalues/detracts from anything is that the artists are most-likely putting time into creating these things themselves so they're writing/practicing.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Feb 7, 2018)

This dude actually has a very good marketing strategy, he’s a nice guy too.

I messaged him for a friends side project to ask about guest solos. Pretty reasonable and very friendly


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## Emperor Guillotine (Feb 7, 2018)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> This dude actually has a very good marketing strategy


Spam the f*ck out of social media and pay FB and IG out the wazoo for sponsorship? Good strategy, sure.



KnightBrolaire said:


> he falls into the dan james griffin category of "pantomimes to a midi guitar track". I've watched a fair number of his videos/stuff and I'd say nearly all of it is pantomimed to midi.
> Nothing wrong with using midi as a composition tool but when you're passing off the midi track as something you actually play that's pretty shitty imo. It's extremely disingenuous.


This is essentially what this entire thread ought to boil down to.


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## Random3 (Feb 7, 2018)

I think people are confusing two separate issues.

If the dude wants to make music that sounds like that, then more power to him. He evidently has a fanbase. How he made the noises that go into the music is irrelevant. He could have literally made the music by squeezing out a fart and manipulating the audio on Pro Tools. If people like it, they like it.

However.

Uploading videos that are essentially to "show off" where the audio is clearly not live is a bit sleazy. I get that in the case of Berried Alive, the selling factor is how absurdly technical it is so videos are going to be needed for them to go viral etc. So whilst we can call it dishonest all we want, fact is he is doing what he wants to do and is more successful than most of us at it.

As a caveat here, on most of the videos I put the audio is not live from the video but is a pre-mixed backing track, but I don't edit everything to the grid and nor do I upload them for the purposes of "showing off", in case anyone calls me out.


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## Avedas (Feb 7, 2018)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Spam the f*ck out of social media and pay FB and IG out the wazoo for sponsorship? Good strategy, sure.


That is, in fact, digital marketing in 2018.


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## Durtal (Feb 7, 2018)

This man is clearly false and should not entry. Not even worth discussing his fakery.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 7, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't understand how it devalues/detracts from the music? Is a "cheap" playthrough video in the woods any different than a "cheap" music video that has like 30 seconds of bad acting mixed in with the band miming to the song? Lyric videos are cool because I'd say about 1/3 of my (and lots of people's) music consumption comes in the form of YouTube playlists and its cooler than just having the song playing with the album cover floating in space next to the song title for 3 minutes. About the only way it devalues/detracts from anything is that the artists are most-likely putting time into creating these things themselves so they're writing/practicing.



I think we're just on different sides of the spectrum here. You like lyric videos, I find them repulsive. I don't need a video to watch when I listen to the music, I'm already listening to the music. None of my favorite bands got big because of marketing strategies, they got big because they wrote incredible music and put on amazing live shows. Any of my favorite bands that put out playthrough videos, they are usually one-take live playthroughs. All of my playthroughs are one-take and live with no edits. Whenever I see edited-to-shit playthrough vids, it is coincidentally always music that I'm not into. 

My values differ from yours (and a lot of contemporary music) and I'm cool with that. There's plenty of organic stuff out there for me to dive into.


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## sezna (Feb 7, 2018)

Meh, haters gonna hate. who even cares if he can play it. it sounds pretty cool. heard this debate a thousand times before


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## Paul McAleer (Feb 7, 2018)

Necris said:


> You fool, you've fallen into his clever viral marketing trap and are contributing to the spread of his music! :tinfoilhat:




I mean, his previous band had made a playthrough with their guitars not being plugged in and that generated over a million views and people bitching about it.


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## Quantumface (Feb 7, 2018)

I like how this has turned into a philosophical debate on the "true" nature of metal, as it always does. This website is primarily for musicians after all, and I thought we would all care about the integrity of our fellow guitar playing peers which the only reason I brought it up. It's misleading to portray yourself playing something faster or better than you actually can, that's a fact. That should shake the very foundations of why we strive to be better, and why we respect the musicians who influence us to be better. At this point I think its clear he is not being honest, and pandering towards a demographic that's awe'd by musicianship. If it turns out Berried Alive is open about using editing techniques which misrepresent his fluidity and skill, well then that's his choice for how he chooses to make his art. If that's the case, we can all just decide whether we enjoy listening to the music or not, and move on.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 7, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> I like how this has turned into a philosophical debate on the "true" nature of metal, as it always does. This website is primarily for musicians after all, and I thought we would all care about the integrity of our fellow guitar playing peers which the only reason I brought it up. It's misleading to portray yourself playing something faster or better than you actually can, that's a fact. That should shake the very foundations of why we strive to be better, and why we respect the musicians who influence us to be better. At this point I think its clear he is not being honest, and pandering towards a demographic that's awe'd by musicianship. If it turns out Berried Alive is open about using editing techniques which misrepresent his fluidity and skill, well then that's his choice for how he chooses to make his art. If that's the case, we can all just decide whether we enjoy listening to the music or not, and move on.



100%!!!!!


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 7, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> I like how this has turned into a philosophical debate on the "true" nature of metal, as it always does. This website is primarily for musicians after all, and I thought we would all care about the integrity of our fellow guitar playing peers which the only reason I brought it up. It's misleading to portray yourself playing something faster or better than you actually can, that's a fact. That should shake the very foundations of why we strive to be better, and why we respect the musicians who influence us to be better. At this point I think its clear he is not being honest, and pandering towards a demographic that's awe'd by musicianship. If it turns out Berried Alive is open about using editing techniques which misrepresent his fluidity and skill, well then that's his choice for how he chooses to make his art. If that's the case, we can all just decide whether we enjoy listening to the music or not, and move on.



I mostly agree, and mainly agree with the final sentence. This dude and all of the other guys chopping up their music is doing absolutely no harm to anyone. So if they want to do what they're doing then they should be able to.


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## KyleG (Feb 7, 2018)

If you listen to the recordings and honestly believe they're actual takes than you might actually have some kind of brain defect.
It's 100% obvious, does the guy need to make a video stating otherwise? No, no he doesn't


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## Señor Voorhees (Feb 7, 2018)

Didn't really read much of the thread, but I kind of really like the music regardless. Which is weird for me because I generally hate these weird too fast and mostly noise metal acts.


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 7, 2018)

Necris said:


> You fool, you've fallen into his clever viral marketing trap and are contributing to the spread of his music! :tinfoilhat:


 the longer this thread gets, the more attention his music gets.


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## Avedas (Feb 8, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> the longer this thread gets, the more attention his music gets.


I finally listened to it for a minute. I can find better MIDI tracks playing at the pachinko place down the street.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Feb 8, 2018)

Not everyone can be Lucas Mann and sit out tours and make the band basically resort to use midi tracks live.. I mean play every song perfectly. See? I have a clock in the background so it totally means I’m playing it!


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## Quantumface (Feb 28, 2018)

So, I asked him on one his instragram videos why his tapping sounded like it had pick attacks and he blocked me and deleted my comment. Although it was a tad cheeky, I honestly wasn't trying to be a troll, or be "that guy" but that's just another red flag for me.


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## jaxadam (Feb 28, 2018)

That shit sucked. Here’s something that doesn’t.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 28, 2018)

^ that shit sucks more than Berried Alive


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## Eptaceros (Mar 1, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> So, I asked him on one his instragram videos why his tapping sounded like it had pick attacks and he blocked me and deleted my comment. Although it was a tad cheeky, I honestly wasn't trying to be a troll, or be "that guy" but that's just another red flag for me.



To all the people in this thread that keep defending this guy saying things like "he can do what he wants! it's all about the music!<3":

It's shit like this that makes it not okay. If it was just all about the music, he can be upfront and say it's a mime video (or maybe not put up "playthrough" videos!) But he continues to pass it off like what he's playing is legitimate. I almost feel bad for the guy that he feels the need to put up bullshit videos in order to gain likes and follows.


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## bostjan (Mar 1, 2018)

It's not a crime to be a jerk, but that doesn't mean it's okay.


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## MikeH (Mar 2, 2018)

Just so everyone is aware, he posts videos of the camera audio on his Instagram as well.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 3, 2018)

Why listen to that when its so much more fun to say his guitar playing is fake?


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## ArtHam (Mar 3, 2018)

MikeH said:


> Just so everyone is aware, he posts videos of the camera audio on his Instagram as well.


True. But it doesn't sound like what then turns up in the videos very obviously edited to death.
Guy is not a bad player by any stretch, but there is a difference between his camera audio and his then mixed and quantized takes.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 3, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> To all the people in this thread that keep defending this guy saying things like "he can do what he wants! it's all about the music!<3":
> 
> It's shit like this that makes it not okay. If it was just all about the music, he can be upfront and say it's a mime video (or maybe not put up "playthrough" videos!) But he continues to pass it off like what he's playing is legitimate. I almost feel bad for the guy that he feels the need to put up bullshit videos in order to gain likes and follows.



Him deleting the comment and not wanting to indulge the conversation changes nothing 

Some perspective, he probably saw the comment which the dude even acknowledges was pretty tongue in cheek. And decided he wasn't in the mood to deal with it, or it might have actually struck a nerve and he reacted like he did. 

Check out this comment string on a video I posted of Jason Richardson performing at NAMM.
Caution: Offensive Language
https://imgur.com/a/I9liZ

And you hardly want to see the folder of comments that Youtube actually filters out and gets blocked 

In a world where comments and replies online are this abrassive and rude. Do you really expect a guy like this to not just get upset when someone pokes fun at him on something he's probably been getting shit for, for ages?

I don't know how many of you know who Melanie Faye is, but she's a fantastic guitarist who has stuff on Instagram. And she uploaded a clip of her playing something that had a few similarities to a song by Chon. She had streams of people constantly being obnoxious saying that she stole the band's chord progression and melodies, and after a bit of time she started deleting comments and blocking people. 

It's a response people who usually get flooded with people saying the same thing sometimes far more rudely not wanting to deal with it. I think it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario either way. He either admits to miming and people give him shit for it, or he gets riled up and rudely responds to you and people call him an asshole. He chose to not engage with you for whatever reasons he may have.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

lol at johnathan going to great lengths to defend this guy and subsequently people who legitimately rip off other bands/musicians.

Too bad his logic sucks and goes into zero depth. People on the internet want transparency. that's all. If you can't own up to your bullshit and just deflect/delete/block you'll be ripped on more than if you just own up to it. The internet wants self-compassion. Society wants self-confidence. It's still not socially "cool" to actually take accountability, rather "fake it to you make it" - which this dingleberry midi guy is clearly doing.


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## teqnick (Mar 3, 2018)

he's married & his knuckles are red. He's a woman beater!


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

^ I'm terrible with analogies: the post


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## teqnick (Mar 3, 2018)

hmmmmmmm said:


> ^ I'm terrible with analogies: the post



not particularly an analogy, but we'll wait for SSO's in house 8th grade teacher on that one. 




the post


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

what is it then


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 3, 2018)

I can see why people dislike this sort of thing so much. Personally I don't think it's that worth getting worked up about, it's certainly not going to "kill metal", we've had super-clean, ultra-quantised bedroom djent stuff for a decade now and metal has continued on it's course of lessening popularity since the death of Nu metal, much like it did in the 90s when hair and thrash metal fell out of fashion. Everyone stop worrying, no matter what the "mainstream" part of metal is doing, there will always be cool metal bands on the sidelines, making very little money and touring incessantly to live.

With regard to this actual project / band thing, I don't like it but that's just me. I actually think the second piece of music in the "best of" video is a pretty cool piece but overall it's just noisy djent tech chug, not really what I'm into. If you like it, awesome, if you don't like it then move on and listen to something else.

What I don't like about this is the inference from reading the YouTube stuff, is that these are genuine performances or takes that haven't been subject to staggering amounts of processing to get them to sound as they do in the videos. Play along videos are cool if it's for demonstration purposes but they should be clearly marked as such, which they aren't. A big, big part of music for me is the human element. I like to know a human performed it, I look up to wizards that have absolute mastery attained through practice and talent. Programmed music does nothing for me, even when I think it sounds good, I like to know there is a performance happening, not just an execution of a programmed composition in a piece of computer software. I love live music, I love improvisational music.

This sort of ultra-processed stuff just has no human character or soul to it - totally subjective and impossible to quantify I know, but it's completely lacking to me. They could be the most amazing compositions, but I lose a huge amount of engagement when listening because I know it's not real.

The great irony is that I do love technical, difficult to play music, try CAB for example - technical brilliance of the highest order, but with all the squeaks, squawks and the occasional bum note you'd expect from human players, playing demanding technical music in an improvisational setting. Now that really gets me interest and if they pro-tooled the bum notes up to the right pitch and took the string noise out, the hum on the mic etc, it would lose something for me. Everyone is different though, listen to what you like and like what you listen to.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 3, 2018)

hmmmmmmm said:


> lol at johnathan going to great lengths to defend this guy and subsequently people who legitimately rip off other bands/musicians.
> 
> Too bad his logic sucks and goes into zero depth. People on the internet want transparency. that's all. If you can't own up to your bullshit and just deflect/delete/block you'll be ripped on more than if you just own up to it. The internet wants self-compassion. Society wants self-confidence. It's still not socially "cool" to actually take accountability, rather "fake it to you make it" - which this dingleberry midi guy is clearly doing.





Is your only retort that I actually put some thought into a post and reply to what others were saying? Not my fault you can't comprehend nuance and basic understanding of human interaction, but I'll leave it at that. Because I wasn't even talking to you in the first place so I'm not going to bother arguing with someone I wasn't even speaking to.


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## QuantumCybin (Mar 3, 2018)

I think at the end of the day, everyone is going to have their own interpretation of what’s acceptable when writing/advertising music. And of course, this is a message board, so you’re all more than entitled to talk about and discuss it, but realistically, it’s this guy’s creation. If he doesn’t want to address hostile people, he doesn’t have to. At the end of the day, who really gives a shit?? Go on and listen to what you want, write what you want, and do what you want.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

> Not my fault you can't comprehend nuance and basic understanding of human interaction



is this guy for real? his arguments are basically "it's okay to cheat and delete any criticism" and the argument in the quote is essentially saying NO U


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 3, 2018)

hmmmmmmm said:


> is this guy for real? his arguments are basically "it's okay to cheat and delete any criticism" and the argument in the quote is essentially saying NO U



Not what I said at all, but feel free to change my point to fit your narrative all you want. It's all there written clear as day, don't think we need your botched interpretations of a fairly simple point I made.

I don't feel like reiterating what I said, so just go back and reread it. If you still can't take anything away from it, then agree to disagree and go enjoy your weekend.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

I already read and responded to it..which you refused to respond to because you have no answer. We can do this all night..


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 3, 2018)

in a nutshell:

if you post something online..you've entered a contract with the world that people can respond to it and give you feedback. It's fine to delete egregiously awful shit, but if you delete people calling you out for your bs (The Faceless...RoS...to a lesser extent Obscura) it will affect your reputation. You cannot have fame without critics...and the internet is full of them because people online demand high character. That's how it works. If you have shit character you deserve to be shit on.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 3, 2018)

hmmmmmmm said:


> Too bad his logic sucks and goes into zero depth.



What a constructive and thought provoking response  if you respond to me like a child who can't understand that other people have different viewpoints than you, then there's no point in indulging you.

Cheers man, I definitely don't plan on continuing this all night, feel free to with someone else though. I was never even speaking to you in the first place like I mentioned prior.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 4, 2018)

Very sick quote mine, dawg. Everyone knows quote miners win e-arguments lol


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## eggy in a bready (Mar 4, 2018)

the sexual tension between you two is getting me all sweaty


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 4, 2018)

Location checks out


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## eggy in a bready (Mar 4, 2018)

get hyphy


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## cip 123 (Mar 4, 2018)

hmmmmmmm said:


> , but if you delete people calling you out for your bs (The Faceless...RoS...to a lesser extent Obscura) it will affect your reputation.



Just had to chime in on the obscura part... How are they lesser?

Steffan goes around claiming copyright on things that aren't even his, fakes music videos, and tries to destroy and defame the career of anyone who calls him out. He's done a lot of damage to Tom fountainhead for no real reason. He's worse than the faceless and RoS in my opinion.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 4, 2018)

I actually forgot about most of that Obscura stuff, so you're right. I forgot how much of a piece of shit Steffan is.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 4, 2018)

So, he makes the kind of music that anal-retentive guitar geeks are gonna pick apart... and he fakes it... 

That's like... asking Neil Degrasse Tyson to review your astrophysics book claiming the Earth is flat- you know what's gonna happen, right?!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 4, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Just had to chime in on the obscura part... How are they lesser?
> 
> Steffan goes around claiming copyright on things that aren't even his, fakes music videos, and tries to destroy and defame the career of anyone who calls him out. He's done a lot of damage to Tom fountainhead for no real reason. He's worse than the faceless and RoS in my opinion.





hmmmmmmm said:


> I actually forgot about most of that Obscura stuff, so you're right. I forgot how much of a piece of shit Steffan is.



Jeez, had no clue he was that much of a douchecanoe.


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## cip 123 (Mar 4, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Jeez, had no clue he was that much of a douchecanoe.



Tom put it well once. Everyone who has "left" Obscura (or still in) keeps in touch and collaborates with each other. No one keeps in touch or collaborates with Steffan.


In fact bringing him up, he does more damage to this genre than Charles Caswell/Berried Alive. Charles is solo. The point that he's hurting no one gets thrown around a lot here and it's basically true.

Steffan is hurting people, and their career's. The music video for Akrosis, still has Tom's solo in it (as stated by Tom himself) yet it has Rafael miming it well before he was shown to actually know it. Steffan attacks anyone who says he's bad to work with and drags their name through the dirt. Hard. He won't give credit to Tom Fountainhead for songs he's written, gives no royalties for performance or songwriting, does everything to minimise what Tom did and stop him posting videos gaining any form of credit etc.

If theres anyone people should be turning on it's Steffan. He gives a bad name to metal and he's a bad person in general. Screw what Charles/Berried Alive is doing solo from his home making a living for himself with his own music, real or not whatever you define as real. There should be a 7 page thread about Steffan attacking fellow musicians.


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## hmmmmmmm (Mar 4, 2018)

There was a thread about him but it got lost in the abyss. that's how life goes - people get their 15 minutes of fame or infamy and life continues


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## ArtHam (Mar 5, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Tom put it well once. Everyone who has "left" Obscura (or still in) keeps in touch and collaborates with each other. No one keeps in touch or collaborates with Steffan.
> 
> Steffan is hurting people, and their career's. The music video for Akrosis, still has Tom's solo in it (as stated by Tom himself) yet it has Rafael miming it well before he was shown to actually know it. Steffan attacks anyone who says he's bad to work with and drags their name through the dirt. Hard. He won't give credit to Tom Fountainhead for songs he's written, gives no royalties for performance or songwriting, does everything to minimise what Tom did and stop him posting videos gaining any form of credit etc.



Now I don't think Steffen is innocent in any way, but I believe the truth is in the middle somewhere. You say he attacked fellow musicianS. Who else did he attack?

But your message seems somewhat ill-informed and very biased.

1: bands don't pay royalties.
2: I had a cover video from Akroasis songs removed too. They were removed by the label though, not the band. One of my friends works at a label and he says they do this because it deviates views from the videos they themselves post. Less views = less money. This mainly applies to styles where the biggest factor is instrumental prowess. The label gets an automatic notification because they original audio is in there and can instantly delete it.
3: I call bullshit on the Akroasis thing. You can't really be upset by that. It's a MUSIC video! Tom was fired by then, something that has happened to no one in Obscura before by the way. This happens in tons of bands. A band member gets fired, band needs to make a music video, new guy mimes it. Who cares. The way they split getting Geldschlager in very probably wasn't an option. Music Videos are always fake.

According to multiple sources around the band Tom had attempted to take credit for the things he wrote even wanting credit for songs to which he only added a guitar solo. He was allegedly hard to work with and antagonistic and was fired because of that. Steffen is pretty much the Dave Mustaine of the band and the new guy basically tried to out-alpha him, hence he was fired. Tough. Happens in any company. Try pulling some of the stuff Tom tried to do after he got fired in the real world when you get fired from your old job. I'd be sceptic if it wasn't for the fact that even Linus, one of the nicest guys ever, never wants anything to do with Tom again. I even went to a Nader Sadek show last year and the main guy who runs that band even said he'd never work with Tom again.

It's also not true that no one is in contact with Steffen, there's pictures of him with Christian together from a few months ago.


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## cip 123 (Mar 5, 2018)

@ArtHam But royalties were supposobly worked out when Tom left. Also bands do get royalties depending on if they are part of any international music groups and where they get played. It depends how it's handled by labels or bands as some bands are signed up to groups such as PRS out with their labels.

Cover videos are actually illegal in a sense for them to be properly legal you need both the label and performers permission. Tom is the performer and I assume he thought he could post it due him writing the material for the band/label. 

It's more the context in which I bring up the music video, and the credit. I don't follow any updates on the story so don't know if Tom every got proper credits for Akrosis. But this entire thread is about Berried alive faking things, when the video posted in the OP, is never specifically called a playthrough. It is as much a music video as Akrosis is.



I don't know both sides entirely and probably won't ever but most of it is explained here - http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/201...d-geldschlagers-statement-on-obscura-dispute/

There does seem like several key things Steffen lied about, such as fretless guitar performances not on the album etc.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 5, 2018)

I will first say when I heard his take on this [video] I was completely blown away. It is still one of my favorite guitar things ever. Freaking unbelievable to me.

I went out and pre ordered the Fool's Gold after I heard this and was extremely disappointed. I like brutal stuff and it is so far away from brutal. The solos are cool but the rest of that album eh. Not my thing at all and I pretty much stopped following.

The guy is an amazing guitarist IMO, weather he can actually play the stuff or not idk and idc. Some of his innovations are awesome but I do not really like his music. His awesome youtube clips, hell yeah they are great but his album that I have is not good to me and the vocals are atrocious. If you see this Charles please stop singing.

I noticed some "tricks" a while back but didn't really consider it a big deal. One of his video takes clearly did not match the audio. Can't recall exactly what it was to post up but there was no way it was possible.

I figured it was just video editing error and not complete manipulation. These days with the internet and computers and all that it doesn't seem to matter much. I would never cheat an audience but people do it and see success from it so whatever.

At least they are not straight stealing someone else's music.

I used to hate it and totally see where the OP and others are coming from but eh....Like the one guy said hating and posting about it just helps them out.


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## ArtHam (Mar 5, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> @ArtHam
> It's more the context in which I bring up the music video, and the credit. I don't follow any updates on the story so don't know if Tom every got proper credits for Akrosis. But this entire thread is about Berried alive faking things, when the video posted in the OP, is never specifically called a playthrough. It is as much a music video as Akrosis is.
> 
> I don't know both sides entirely and probably won't ever but most of it is explained here - http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/201...d-geldschlagers-statement-on-obscura-dispute/
> ...



Maybe, but with the Akroasis video everyone knew what was up. Obscura didn't say the new guy played the guitars in the song either.

Tom got the full credit. His name was in the artwork, he is credited as having played guitars on the record. There are fretless guitars on the record, but not every song and not all the time. He wrote parts of certain songs and those are in the booklet too. I don't know what they expected him to do. He got fired right after recording. He can be grateful he got the full credit at all. For example the HAARP machine album has Alex Rudinger all over the artwork and his name in there but he didn't play any drums on the album. Instead there's a small line saying 'drums performed by Craig Reynolds'.
My problem with that heavy blog story is that it's all one sided. From the moment the story broke it didn't make any sense. You don't get fired from a band over nothing. He tried to put himself into the role of a victim, but there had to be a reason why he was fired, which he always omitted. So he faked 'full disclosure' but omitted anything that might've put him in a bad light.And when anybody asked him about it on this forum or on his Facebook he started slamming them and accusing them of being sent by Steffen. Rubbed me the wrong way from the get go.


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## bostjan (Mar 5, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> I will first say when I heard his take on this [video] I was completely blown away. It is still one of my favorite guitar things ever. Freaking unbelievable to me.
> 
> I went out and pre ordered the Fool's Gold after I heard this and was extremely disappointed. I like brutal stuff and it is so far away from brutal. The solos are cool but the rest of that album eh. Not my thing at all and I pretty much stopped following.
> 
> ...




He's not even trying to pantomime those crazy sweeps. I mean, if I made something like that on the computer, and didn't go around touting it as virtuoso guitar playing, would anyone even bother listening to me? That's intended as an honest question.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 5, 2018)

bostjan said:


> He's not even trying to pantomime those crazy sweeps. I mean, if I made something like that on the computer, and didn't go around touting it as virtuoso guitar playing, would anyone even bother listening to me? That's intended as an honest question.


I definitely think people would, myself being one of them. I'm a bit of an outlier though since I don't give a rats ass about "artistic integrity" of any kind as long as you're not note for note ripping off another band. I don't care how the music is recorded or written, if its good and I can groove to it why would I even care how the artist came up with it? Anup Sastry comes up with some of the wackiest sounding grooves and all of the guitars on his albums are programmed just like an EDM song, the drums are played by him though. This "true musician/artist" mentality is archaic and shouldn't dictate whether you like a song/band or not.

It might seem like I'm riding some berry-dick in this thread but I actually don't even like Berried Alive. He can come up with some really cool sounding parts but he can't write a memorable song to save his life. I don't think I've ever seen him tout himself as some insane virtuoso guitarist either. Its more like "Heres a cool little thing I made, check it out" rather than jerking himself off about how awesome he is at guitar.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 5, 2018)

bostjan said:


> He's not even trying to pantomime those crazy sweeps. I mean, if I made something like that on the computer, and didn't go around touting it as virtuoso guitar playing, would anyone even bother listening to me? That's intended as an honest question.



Honestly, I don't even follow your question haha. I will do my best.

I have no idea how I first heard Berried Alive. I'm pretty sure i saw them all over FB and was like WTF is this crap stealing Buried Alive's band name. Then I saw some killer guitar work.

I just click on random stuff a lot of the time when I listen to new to me music. I do listen to a lot of stuff that I have not heard before so I guess for me to listen to someone they would just need good advertising where it was convenient to see like on a youtube suggested video type of thing.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 5, 2018)

So I read a few more pages (one day i may read them all) haha.

Is there any evidence that all of this is "fake" and that he cannot play this stuff? I do not believe that is the case here. Editing guitar tracks for a perfect take and programming guitars are different things.


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## bostjan (Mar 5, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> So I read a few more pages (one day i may read them all) haha.
> 
> Is there any evidence that all of this is "fake" and that he cannot play this stuff? I do not believe that is the case here. Editing guitar tracks for a perfect take and programming guitars are different things.



Of course not, because it is impossible to prove a negative.

Any time you hear MIDI, synth, or whatever, and someone pantomimes a guitar playthrough, I think some people, myself included, cringe a little bit, because it's showing you one thing, but your ears are telling you that something completely different is happening. It's not like someone is playing a Roland Synth guitar or anything like that, either, it's the visual presentation of "I'm playing a guitar" and the aural presentation that sounds like "here's a cool MIDI file I programmed." Probably whether it's dishonest in some way or not is dependent on interpreting queues, but it's something that, socially, many people feel is blatant.

I mean, did Fab and Rob from Milli Vanilli ever explicitly say that they sang the songs? It doesn't matter, because they behaved very strongly as if they did, and their only purpose for existing, really, in the context into which they were placed, heavily implied that they were singing. Same goes for the guitar being held and mimed in a MIDI playback playthrough whatever.

You can defend these sorts of videos by saying "it sounds cool, so who cares how it was recorded?" Which I can shrug in non-disagreement, but once you pick up a guitar and mime out a playthrough, it's very strongly implying that you are playing guitar. You know? So, what's the point in that other than to say "I play this on guitar?!" Just because it looks cool?! That doesn't really add up.



BIG ND SWEATY said:


> I definitely think people would, myself being one of them. I'm a bit of an outlier though since I don't give a rats ass about "artistic integrity" of any kind as long as you're not note for note ripping off another band. I don't care how the music is recorded or written, if its good and I can groove to it why would I even care how the artist came up with it? Anup Sastry comes up with some of the wackiest sounding grooves and all of the guitars on his albums are programmed just like an EDM song, the drums are played by him though. This "true musician/artist" mentality is archaic and shouldn't dictate whether you like a song/band or not.
> 
> It might seem like I'm riding some berry-dick in this thread but I actually don't even like Berried Alive. He can come up with some really cool sounding parts but he can't write a memorable song to save his life. I don't think I've ever seen him tout himself as some insane virtuoso guitarist either. Its more like "Heres a cool little thing I made, check it out" rather than jerking himself off about how awesome he is at guitar.



For me, it's a sliding scale. If I hear a programmed song, I can dig it. If there is a programmed song I dig, and there's clearly no guitar in it, but I see a video and someone is holding a guitar in the background, pretending to play something, I might smirk a little at the thought that someone decided it'd be a cool aesthetic, and probably didn't really understand that there was no guitar in the song. The more obvious the guitar is, the tackier it gets, to the point where you have a closeup of a guitar being played and you are hearing programmed sounds that don't even really sound like guitar (in some cases, not in this particular case in the OP). The OP is somewhere on that sliding scale, but definitely more on the "I'm playing this on a guitar, check out my guitar playing" level than a "here is a cool song, and here is a guitar in the video because it looks cool" level.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter, though. This is 2018, where tons of people are buzzing about videos with auto-tuned rubber chickens and rapping that is so ludicrously sped up, and most people think it's all about performing talent and miss the fact that it's really just a ton of creative talent and the rest is smoke and mirrors... but then again - it's really always been smoke and mirrors in pop and rock music anyway.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 5, 2018)

So Charles Caswell is the Milli Vanilli of Modern Guitar


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## GunpointMetal (Mar 5, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> So I read a few more pages (one day i may read them all) haha.
> 
> Is there any evidence that all of this is "fake" and that he cannot play this stuff? I do not believe that is the case here. Editing guitar tracks for a perfect take and programming guitars are different things.


When your editing guitar tracks down to the 32nd note, you are essentially programming them. How is that different that someone editing in the piano roll in MIDI other than they had to take the time to make up each sample?


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 6, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> When your editing guitar tracks down to the 32nd note, you are essentially programming them. How is that different that someone editing in the piano roll in MIDI other than they had to take the time to make up each sample?


How do you know exactly how much he's edited?

The guy is a monster player, maybe not the best composer but I don't doubt he can play the music he's posted.

Maybe I missed the post showing the evidence idk.

I'm sure it's been done but I can't imagine anyone editing 32nd notes. That's absolutely ridiculous, maybe cutting bars in half at most. Anything more than that you could learn to play the song in the amount of time that would take.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 6, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Is there any evidence that all of this is "fake" and that he cannot play this stuff? I do not believe that is the case here. Editing guitar tracks for a perfect take and programming guitars are different things.



Record one semi quaver note and copy paste it 10 times or record that one note, sample it and trigger it 10 times by midi. Its the same result. There's zero note bleed and everything is perfect on the grid in time the perfect length so people will call it midi guitars because thats the sound you get when you trigger guitars by midi. The evidence is in the sound, guitars don't sound like that, ever but midi does and its a textbook approach to recording guitars across the modern metal scene. Yes its exhausting but so is spending endless hours tweaking fine parts of a mix, its all part of being a musician I guess and if a surgically precise recording is your vision then you are going to put in that time. He also admitted it when called out so there is that.

I refused to believe it at first that people would record guitars like that, grew up on Vai and Shawn Lane live videos which showed anything was possible on a guitar but looking back at 1:08 onwards in this video its painfully obvious thats separate notes stuck together so it sounds like guitar pro:


Again nothing wrong with doing this on albums, personally I love the sound of really clear guitars, and the players skill is irrelevant as Necrophagist proves but just be able to play it live and don't make videos boasting about your guitar skills miming to super edited tracks on IG.


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## GunpointMetal (Mar 6, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> How do you know exactly how much he's edited?
> 
> The guy is a monster player, maybe not the best composer but I don't doubt he can play the music he's posted.
> 
> ...



Did you listen to it? 
Every single note is exactly on a drum hit/beat division. E X A C T L Y
Not to mention the number of times there is pick attack on tapping/legato parts.
If you record with with intention of "micro-editing" it's not really that time consuming of a process. Record DI, Transient Split DI Track, Snap to Grid, Re-Amp. Or record each note of a pattern, crop to desired note length, snap to grid, copy/paste as desired. Takes about as long as meticulously comping several takes or re-recording a hundred times till you get one that's EXACTLY on the beat. I have no doubt this guy can play literal circles around me, but the evidence is in the audio that most of this stuff is edited to death.


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## bostjan (Mar 6, 2018)

I suppose it's one of those things, like when I go to a restaurant with someone who has culinary training, and I make a comment about how great the dessert is and the culinary person tells me it's just a boxed cake mix or something store-bought.  Like, what do I care? Well, I might not care, because I'm pleased with the end result, but culinary people care about those sorts of things because of the amount of praise that goes to the kitchen staff...

So, in the cases of many, if not most, progressive metal facebook-only bands and artists, when I, as a guitarist, listen to the music, it is so obvious that it's not real guitar playing, drumming, or bass playing, or when I listen to someone playing a rubber chicken on a youtube vid, how obvious it is to me, as someone with a little bit of production experience, that the chicken is autotuned snapped to a midi file, or whatever music-related shenanigans there is out there that is oh so obvious to me, yet not to everyone. The devil is always in the details. Pick attacks when you don't see pick attacks, sweeps when you don't see pick movement, all notes 100% isolated from each other with no ringing out, or sometimes notes that ring out over other notes that are no longer being played nor held...all of these things individually whisper fake, but scream fake when you sum them all together.


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## USMarine75 (Mar 6, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Record one semi quaver note and copy paste it 10 times or record that one note, sample it and trigger it 10 times by midi. Its the same result. There's zero note bleed and everything is perfect on the grid in time the perfect length so people will call it midi guitars because thats the sound you get when you trigger guitars by midi. The evidence is in the sound, guitars don't sound like that, ever but midi does and its a textbook approach to recording guitars across the modern metal scene. Yes its exhausting but so is spending endless hours tweaking fine parts of a mix, its all part of being a musician I guess and if a surgically precise recording is your vision then you are going to put in that time. He also admitted it when called out so there is that.
> 
> I refused to believe it at first that people would record guitars like that, grew up on Vai and Shawn Lane live videos which showed anything was possible on a guitar but looking back at 1:08 onwards in this video its painfully obvious thats separate notes stuck together so it sounds like guitar pro:
> 
> ...




So I though he made the THM playthroughs to show that he was working hard and able to finally play his own stuff, no?


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## QuantumCybin (Mar 6, 2018)

This thread and the HAARP thread need to be merged into a megathread about the ethics/philosophy of hyper editing guitar tracks  can’t tell which thread is which anymore just by reading them


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## bostjan (Mar 6, 2018)

QuantumCybin said:


> This thread and the HAARP thread need to be merged into a megathread about the ethics/philosophy of hyper editing guitar tracks  can’t tell which thread is which anymore just by reading them


Meh, this thread will be forgotten in a few weeks, probably. The HAARP Machine thread will keep going, because the project is so much more high profile and they seem to have a very rigid following. There have been a handful of threads about youtube/myspace/facebook guitar players who fake it already, and none of those are active except this one. Those could be merged into one thread, but no one would likely notice whether it was merged or not.  Plus, it'll only be a few months or so before another thread just like this, but with a slightly different guitarist on a different social media platform comes along.


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## QuantumCybin (Mar 6, 2018)

True....flavor of the month type situation here.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 7, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> So I though he made the THM playthroughs to show that he was working hard and able to finally play his own stuff, no?



Dude has always worked hard and is a monstrous player more than capable of playing his songs, thats been clear since day 1 when he dropped the video for The Escapist Notion. I was just pointing out how I refused to believe that video was super edited tracks when people pointed it out on this site, but once you know what to listen for its obvious.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 8, 2018)

Here's my thing, and I think that most posters are missing this point. 

This kind of music isn't just listening, in fact it's probably just a little listening. Videos like this, really it's the thrill of watching a guitar player pull off virtuous and creative ideas at blistering speed with stunning accuracy. The product that he is selling, if you will, is the idea that a human being can pull that off at that speed and accuracy level, and you get a rush from seeing such acrobatics. 

Problems are, firstly, you're not getting the product that you think you're getting. It's like getting a guitar with a veneer top when you were promised and thought you'd received quilt maple. 

Secondly, there are people that can do this and actually pull it off on live videos, and you're stealing their business, and that's not fair because your product isn't real, and theirs' is. It's not like he's playing something pretty complex, like Faceless level, which you're bound to need a few punch-in's to nail, he's playing hyper edited, probably speed up virtuosic music on video, attracting the attention from real virtuousos and selling you a fake product. 

And thirdly, anyone can do this, and part of the product he sells is the idea that most people can't. Anyone that can play intermediate level guitar can record crazy shit with sporadic, not thought out odd times at an excruciatingly slow pace and speed it up so it's rhythmically perfect and clean. I'm sorry, but it's true. 

Recording music slowed down and editing it and selling it as not that is not fair, and a lie, and shouldn't be celebrated for anything other than the composition-and even then the dishonesty really dampens that for me. 

But that's all just my opinion. If you like it, you like it.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 8, 2018)

Double post.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 8, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Record one semi quaver note and copy paste it 10 times or record that one note, sample it and trigger it 10 times by midi. Its the same result. There's zero note bleed and everything is perfect on the grid in time the perfect length so people will call it midi guitars because thats the sound you get when you trigger guitars by midi. The evidence is in the sound, guitars don't sound like that, ever but midi does and its a textbook approach to recording guitars across the modern metal scene. Yes its exhausting but so is spending endless hours tweaking fine parts of a mix, its all part of being a musician I guess and if a surgically precise recording is your vision then you are going to put in that time. He also admitted it when called out so there is that.
> 
> I refused to believe it at first that people would record guitars like that, grew up on Vai and Shawn Lane live videos which showed anything was possible on a guitar but looking back at 1:08 onwards in this video its painfully obvious thats separate notes stuck together so it sounds like guitar pro:
> 
> ...




At least Muhammad and the guys could actually play their shit live 
THM/Berried alive has shown that they really can't even play their stuff live


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## Stilicho (Mar 8, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> At least Muhammad and the guys could actually play their shit live
> THM/Berried alive has shown that they really can't even play their stuff live


Yeah Muhammad from Necrophagist is great live. I think Al from THM has worked on his chops a lot after being bullycided by Misha and most of the SS community though. If you watch his recent playthroughs you can see he's definitely playing the songs.

Not sure about Berried Alive though, the songs sound like they might be playable, but I can't tell since he won't post a live video of him playing. Their music is just a bit too djent-widdly for me to care much.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 8, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Problems are, firstly, you're not getting the product that you think you're getting. It's like getting a guitar with a veneer top when you were promised and thought you'd received quilt maple.
> 
> Secondly, there are people that can do this and actually pull it off on live videos, and you're stealing their business, and that's not fair because your product isn't real, and theirs' is. It's not like he's playing something pretty complex, like Faceless level, which you're bound to need a few punch-in's to nail, he's playing hyper edited, probably speed up virtuosic music on video, attracting the attention from real virtuousos and selling you a fake product.



Did you forget a few words in your first statement or...? Unless the songs you're buying are completely different from the ones he may or may not be playing, you're getting exactly what you bought. Just because the techniques he used to record the music differ from what you thought they were doesn't mean he sold you a completely different product, it means that you were wrong.

The idea that Berried Alive is taking attention away from guys like Plini or Sithu Aye or the guys in Polyphia or anyone else who has insane chops is ridiculous. By that logic there should only be a few gigantic music acts around because they've taken away all the attention from smaller acts. People are completely free to pick and choose which artists they support and which ones they don't so someone buying a Berried Alive album has literally 0 effect on any other band other than Berried Alive. The Faceless aren't exactly the best band to bring up when you're talking about scummy business practices considering all the shit that Keene has been accused of and done. I honestly don't know why you'd bring them up since The Faceless have some really simple sections just like Berried Alive. Neither one of them are Viraemia or Brain Drill who are balls to the wall technical.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 8, 2018)

Stilicho said:


> Yeah Muhammad from Necrophagist is great live. I think Al from THM has worked on his chops a lot after being bullycided by Misha and most of the SS community though. If you watch his recent playthroughs you can see he's definitely playing the songs.
> 
> Not sure about Berried Alive though, the songs sound like they might be playable, but I can't tell since he won't post a live video of him playing. Their music is just a bit too djent-widdly for me to care much.


I've seen muhammad and the guys twice live and they were awesome. Dying fetus is another band where guys play pretty technical metal and sound just as good as the album live. Periphery/Scale the Summit sound good/can play all of their parts at the couple of shows I saw them live at. I can understand writing for writing's sake (i've written shit in guitar pro/midi that I can't really play) and there are composers that do that a lot (Hans Zimmer), but I have a lot more respect for performers/composers that can actually play what they write. Francisco Tarrega (arguably the father of spanish classical guitar music) was a monstrous player and composer, same with Mauro Giuliani, Matteo Carcassi and a lot of other guitar composers.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 8, 2018)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Did you forget a few words in your first statement or...? Unless the songs you're buying are completely different from the ones he may or may not be playing, you're getting exactly what you bought. Just because the techniques he used to record the music differ from what you thought they were doesn't mean he sold you a completely different product, it means that you were wrong.
> 
> The idea that Berried Alive is taking attention away from guys like Plini or Sithu Aye or the guys in Polyphia or anyone else who has insane chops is ridiculous. By that logic there should only be a few gigantic music acts around because they've taken away all the attention from smaller acts. People are completely free to pick and choose which artists they support and which ones they don't so someone buying a Berried Alive album has literally 0 effect on any other band other than Berried Alive. The Faceless aren't exactly the best band to bring up when you're talking about scummy business practices considering all the shit that Keene has been accused of and done. I honestly don't know why you'd bring them up since The Faceless have some really simple sections just like Berried Alive. Neither one of them are Viraemia or Brain Drill who are balls to the wall technical.



What? That's all a bunch of nonsense. 

It's not just the music that people are looking at here, why do people pretend that? 

It's a video of a guy playing the ridiculous music that you're watching, and you watch it because you're amazed that someone can do that, the same reason you watched videos of shred guitar in your teens. His product isn't just the music, it's the video of him playing it that people care about. I understand, people like the songs, but people stop and stare and watch because it's technically incredible, and comment as such, when it's edited to fuck and likely speed up. So, people are thinking it's someone that can actually play this and appreciating that, when it's not. It's not the product that they think they are getting. 

That's the point, the Faceless was just an example of a band that requires some basic editing prowess to be done right, but aren't like this. Don't use that as a strawman to argue about integrity.


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## Stilicho (Mar 8, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I've seen muhammad and the guys twice live and they were awesome. Dying fetus is another band where guys play pretty technical metal and sound just as good as the album live. Periphery/Scale the Summit sound good/can play all of their parts at the couple of shows I saw them live at. I can understand writing for writing's sake (i've written shit in guitar pro/midi that I can't really play) and there are composers that do that a lot (Hans Zimmer), but I have a lot more respect for performers/composers that can actually play what they write. Francisco Tarrega (arguably the father of spanish classical guitar music) was a monstrous player and composer, same with Mauro Giuliani, Matteo Carcassi and a lot of other guitar composers.


Yeah same as me man. At the very least I like people to be honest if they can't play something on their instrument, then I don't mind so much. It's the fake pyrotechnics that I dislike.


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## Acaciastrain360 (Oct 21, 2018)

Any of you guys come across Berried Alive yet? The dude Charles Caswell along with his wife are killing it...
some of the best riffing I’ve seen for death guitarists....


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## The Omega Cluster (Oct 21, 2018)

It's alright, not great; that can't forgive the super annoying marketing and social media presence.


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## eggy in a bready (Oct 21, 2018)

my favorite jamba juice flavor


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## PunkBillCarson (Oct 21, 2018)

Nothing I haven't heard in some form or another a thousand times before.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 21, 2018)

ahh nothing's quite like the sweet sound of midi guitars. 
>this is sarcasm


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## Djentlyman (Oct 21, 2018)

Some of his stuff is cool however I'd like to see a video of just him playing with no backing track. It all sounds a bit too "processed" to be legit.


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## Kaura (Oct 21, 2018)

It's cool but the diminished/chromatic/nintendo/whatever tapping licks got old in 2009...


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 21, 2018)

He comes up with some really cool sounding bits but he can't write a whole song to save his life.


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## Avedas (Oct 21, 2018)

I don't care for his music in the slightest but I am curious what his recording process is like. He gets some cool sounds sometimes.


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## Winspear (Oct 21, 2018)

It's awesome hearing the synthetic production taken to this level - love it


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## ThePIGI King (Oct 22, 2018)

Video seems weird, the strings vibrate exagerated on my phone. Kinda okay, instrumental chugging is super boring, only to be broken up by some super processed leads written by Lucas Mann Jr over here.

Don't me wrong, some of his work is good, this seems like a more boring one. And he plays real well, it would seem. Husband/wife combo is the pinnacle of marriage goals


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 22, 2018)

Does this guy have any videos that aren't midi? I'm sure he's an incredible player if he's writing and jamming music like that but I never see anything that isn't hyper edited like that.


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## BlackMastodon (Oct 22, 2018)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> He comes up with some really cool sounding bits but he can't write a whole song to save his life.


Ah, the Longfield Syndrome strikes again.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 22, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Does this guy have any videos that aren't midi? I'm sure he's an incredible player if he's writing and jamming music like that but I never see anything that isn't hyper edited like that.


nope, it's part of his schtick, just like dan james griffin.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Oct 22, 2018)

I kind of agree with a lot of the replies here. Although I feel that the guy is actually very innovative and is an amazing guitarist. Nobody is really playing the kind of stuff he does, at least I have not heard it. Probably some of the best mid riff tapping and kill switch usage I have ever heard.

I have caught a couple of videos where the editing did not match up to the playing and obviously there is some wonky stuff going on in the recording process but I do not doubt that he can play this stuff.

I have seen some older Youtube snippets that was seriously Unbelievable. Some of the best guitar work that just gave me the chills but when I bought his previous EP "Fools Gold" it was extremely disappointing. Like someone else said, his songwriting is just not good. In my opinion of course.

I am not into 90% of the stuff that he does, I won't go on and on about it but that 10% that I do like is very very good. Mixed feelings on Charles. Awesome to watch on youtube from time to time, has a few really awesome things here and there but overall these are not albums I would ever buy again.

Plus I really dislike the name and that whole schpeal. The original Buried Alive is much more interesting to me


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 22, 2018)

I really enjoy the music/style. "Songwriting" in this type of music isn't really a thing anyways unless there is a vocalist holding the riff salad together, so it seems odd to me that people are expecting it, lol. He's writing music, not "songs".
I do wish he'd put out at least some videos without the backtrack. I played a show when he was in Reflections, and he is an amazing guitarist, so the overproduction/quantized guitar sound seems wasted here, because it's not necessary and actually detracts from the gymnastics he's displaying because anyone with ears and eyes can see that what his hands are doing aren't going to make those sounds. I became about 10X less interested when I found out he was doing music with the wet fart from Rings of Saturn (I guess formerly of Rings of Saturn, currently of RoS merch shop and management, lol).


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## QuantumCybin (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm getting serious deja vu, isn't there a multiple page thread about this guy from a couple months ago? I can't imagine the general consensus on him has changed all that much...


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## SDMFVan (Oct 22, 2018)

Looks to me like just another Youtube doof who speeds up all his solos in post production. I didn't watch the whole video, but it appears his wife's contribution on bass was to chug the low B string?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 22, 2018)

QuantumCybin said:


> I'm getting serious deja vu, isn't there a multiple page thread about this guy from a couple months ago? I can't imagine the general consensus on him has changed all that much...



With all these MIDI players it's hard to keep track, between this guy, HAARP Machine and RoS I wasn't sure. 

Properly merged.


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## Randy (Oct 22, 2018)

Dumb name, dumb music but massive Bongo GAS


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## Acaciastrain360 (Oct 23, 2018)

I like it, sounds cool! I couldn’t even mime a sweep at 1/2 that speed haha
His new album is fun to listen to, I just think he should’ve got a vocalist in, as he isn’t that tight with his own


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## The Omega Cluster (Oct 23, 2018)

BlackMastodon said:


> Ah, the Longfield Syndrome strikes again.



Also known as the Abasi Syndrome. Before bashing my skull in, both Abasi and Longfield are amazing guitar technicians, but neither is a great songwriter. The best songs from AAL had Misha Mansoor involved in some way or another, most blatantly on The Joy of Motion (just look the credits). Albums where Misha is missing are AAL's poorest, in my opinion. I criticized Mansoor for many things (e.g. I don't like Periphery very much and his production aesthetics) but he seems to be a stellar musician "conductor" and songwriter. I would love to see him involved in the writing of Longfield's music, I think that would be to the benefit of us all and Longfield herself.


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## Threadnaught (Oct 27, 2018)

Honestly, I like the instrumental material he puts out. I'm with several people here on not liking the vocals. I bought the limited instrumental version of the album and just listened to it - it's really really good, nothing wrong with the production values or compositions. Yes, it's heavily processed. That's the sound he's going for, and whilst I'm a big fan of more natural sounding music and songwriting this is a really interesting and admirable album, and has got some huge sounds on it.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 29, 2018)

I found this artist by accident years ago. It's a similar style, without all the mimed playthroughs.


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## Quantumface (Oct 31, 2018)

The attack of the notes, none of this sounds like it was made by human hands. We are all musicians here, we need to be honest. Places like Sevenstring.org are where we can honestly criticize asshats like this, because everyone else he can delete comments and block everyone who asks a fair question about his methods.

Just listen to this solo at 2:12 and tell me that shit isnt fake as fuck.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 31, 2018)

Its just music man, its not that serious.


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## eggy in a bready (Oct 31, 2018)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> The original Buried Alive is much more interesting to me


hell yeah doggy


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 31, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> The attack of the notes, none of this sounds like it was made by human hands. We are all musicians here, we need to be honest. Places like Sevenstring.org are where we can honestly criticize asshats like this, because everyone else he can delete comments and block everyone who asks a fair question about his methods.
> 
> Just listen to this solo at 2:12 and tell me that shit isnt fake as fuck.



That is really my ONLY issue with this, and even old RoS. I love the sounds, and the idea. But be honest about it. I'm not gonna like it any less if you say "I wrote this in Guitar Pro and edited the piss out of it because thats how I heard it in my head" but I am gonna NOT spend any money on your music if you keep posting "playthrough" videos that are obviously nowhere near as clean as the audio we're hearing and the tracks are so loud that even if you were playing along we'd never hear it anyways.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 31, 2018)

Quantumface said:


> The attack of the notes, none of this sounds like it was made by human hands. We are all musicians here, we need to be honest. Places like Sevenstring.org are where we can honestly criticize asshats like this, because everyone else he can delete comments and block everyone who asks a fair question about his methods.



While I don't agree with doing videos of hyper edited guitars its not like he's the first person to record like this. Necrophagist recorded Epitaph the exact same way, the intro lead guitars here have the same midi attack as that solo. The editing on the notes is just better and cleaner so you don't notice as much on other parts of the album. 



He's just taken it a whole other step with the play through videos. Thing is he can clearly play the solo in that video, he's learned it, he's practiced the hell out of it, so why not upload a video paying it.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 31, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> While I don't agree with doing videos of hyper edited guitars its not like he's the first person to record like this. Necrophagist recorded Epitaph the exact same way, the intro lead guitars here have the same midi attack as that solo. The editing on the notes is just better and cleaner so you don't notice as much on other parts of the album.
> 
> 
> 
> He's just taken it a whole other step with the play through videos. Thing is he can clearly play the solo in that video, he's learned it, he's practiced the hell out of it, so why not upload a video paying it.



Having seen Necrophagist live, there is no doubt that everything on that album was EASILY playable for the band.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 31, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> Having seen Necrophagist live, there is no doubt that everything on that album was EASILY playable for the band.


exactly, their playing was clean af when I saw them live.


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## Randy (Oct 31, 2018)

For the record, anytime somebody complains about the music industry being unfair to musicians in the digital age, hold onto this as a reminder. If people needed to spend money to listen to this stuff like you had to 25 years ago, this guy would sell exactly 3 cassette tapes.

I'm a reasonably open minded guy but the common thread between all these Youtube bedroom 'point and click' shred guys is that there's no way anybody's ingesting this stuff if it weren't in their YT feed, FB or posted on here.


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 31, 2018)

I'm wondering at this point where the logic falls short. 

If Necorphagist is a well recognized band for their heavy editing of their recording process. And they get a pass because of how clean and talented they were live, then is that suddenly the resolution?

Al Mu'min can't play almost anything he plays 100% cleanly live, so he gets discredited. But people have seen Charles play ridiculous stuff with his time in Reflections, so by that thought process why are so many people getting riled up by his heavily edited videos/recordings?

I feel like there's a lot of people who simply "forgive" Muhammed because of how amazing his band and performances were. But it's never consistent, there's definitely this anomosity towards younger up and coming players because they haven't proven themselves to absolutely everyone that comes across their music.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 31, 2018)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Al Mu'min can't play almost anything he plays 100% cleanly live, so he gets discredited. But people have seen Charles play ridiculous stuff with his time in Reflections, so by that thought process why are so many people getting riled up by his heavily edited videos/recordings?
> 
> I feel like there's a lot of people who simply "forgive" Muhammed because of how amazing his band and performances were. But it's never consistent, there's definitely this anomosity towards younger up and coming players because they haven't proven themselves to absolutely everyone that comes across their music.


Well, the awesome stuff he was doing in Reflections wasn't really like a lot of the Berried Alive stuff, and Reflections was a band that actually played shows, so he has to be able to pull it off. With Necrophagist, I never even thought about how the album was edited because they were equally tight live. I couldn't tell and didn't even know until the last few years.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 31, 2018)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm wondering at this point where the logic falls short.
> 
> If Necorphagist is a well recognized band for their heavy editing of their recording process. And they get a pass because of how clean and talented they were live, then is that suddenly the resolution?
> 
> ...


I think most people in this thread have voiced displeasure moreso with the fact that he's built his whole image on the heavily processed midi sound, and afaik doesn't do any unedited live playthroughs of his music to demonstrate that he can play those parts cleanly. That's the crux of the issue imo. He's like Dan james griffin in that they both constantly churn out social media ready guitar wizardry videos that seem inhuman (largely because both utilize extreme amounts of effects/midi), with a distinct lack of stripped back videos to prove that he can play the riffs. Guys like Mendel from Aborted, or Scott Carstairs from Fallujah, or Dave Davidson from Revocation on the other hand deliver technical riffage and can do it live as well as on social media.
Muhammad and the necrophagist gang consistently proved they could play their songs clean live.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 31, 2018)

GunpointMetal said:


> Having seen Necrophagist live, there is no doubt that everything on that album was EASILY playable for the band.



That's what Lorcan was saying, though. Necrophagist recorded that way, but it wasn't a big deal because they could (and did) actually play through the material.
Al did it because he couldn't play his stuff yet.
Charles seems to be able to play the stuff, so why not just record an actual take? Why MIDI-mime?


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 31, 2018)

In general it doesn't really bother me too much I guess, in general I know these guys worked hard enough to play what they do and even doing it at 80/90% is something I can appreciate.

Personally the only time I get annoyed at miming/editing is when people do it to intentionally deceive others or try to come out ahead in some aspect. I don't think a ton of people remember Amin Saffar, but he had an entry for the John Browne contest a few years back and actually won 2nd place in the contest with this entry.



If I remember correctly he was called out and was disqualified or something, but that may not be 100% accurate. This annoyed me because he took the prize from the 3rd place winner and 4th/5th respectively by effectively making it look like he could do something he couldn't.

https://www.youtube.com/user/hyperplanetband/videos

He's pretty dedicated, still uploading videos to this day and without the editing/midi backing to make himself sound better. But that's pretty much the only case where I'll get up in arms about this kind of stuff, if you do it in a contest to try and seriously win. Or even in Lucas Mann's case, that fucking ridiculous crowd fund for his solo album from awhile back.


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## Randy (Oct 31, 2018)

Well here's the question that maybe answers where everyone is on this issue. 

If BA (Charles?) made a video saying "this is all an exercise in making music I like, whether I can play it or not, the goal is to be completely over the top and push boundaries. I'm fully aware and admitting lots of this stuff is either sped up or even completely MIDI", would anybody in this thread like his material any more or have any more respect for him?


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 1, 2018)

Randy said:


> Well here's the question that maybe answers where everyone is on this issue.
> 
> If BA (Charles?) made a video saying "this is all an exercise in making music I like, whether I can play it or not, the goal is to be completely over the top and push boundaries. I'm fully aware and admitting lots of this stuff is either sped up or even completely MIDI", would anybody in this thread like his material any more or have any more respect for him?


I actually would respect him more for admitting that he utilizes MIDI a lot. I don't know about other people in this thread but I think I've mentioned multiple times how I think MIDI is perfectly fine as a writing/composition tool, but leaning as heavily on it as berryboii/al moomoo/dan griffin/rings of uranus turns it from a writing aid into a playing crutch. Personally I'd rather see people flub here and there or indicate that the material is indeed super fucking hard to play, instead of pantomiming perfectly to midi music that berryboii and the others do.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 1, 2018)

Randy said:


> Well here's the question that maybe answers where everyone is on this issue.
> 
> If BA (Charles?) made a video saying "this is all an exercise in making music I like, whether I can play it or not, the goal is to be completely over the top and push boundaries. I'm fully aware and admitting lots of this stuff is either sped up or even completely MIDI", would anybody in this thread like his material any more or have any more respect for him?


Yes, same with Rings of Saturn, although I have other reasons the lead video game streamer from that band bothers me, lol. It's pretty obvious to anyone with ears that the stuff on album is edited down to the ms/sample, and its pretty obvious in the videos that whats being played isn't what we're hearing (my favorite is the kill switch stuff, most of it has the "off" on the upbeat, but in the videos he's obviously pressing the button on the beat). If the editing is really just to "clean up" the sound for an artistic vision, just play over it and have it sound natural. Nobody is gonna be mad (I don't think) if he's rushing or dragging in denser spots or if every hammer-on and slide isn't 100% perfect.


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