# 8-String Dilemma: 27" vs. 28"



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm torn between buying the Agile Intrepid Pro 828 and the Agile Septor Elite 827... I'm not sure if the extra inch or so will make a worth while difference. I could save a hundred bucks and go with the cool blue one or spend the extra dough for (from what I've read) better string tension.

Agile Intrepid Pro 828 EB EMG Nat Ash Left - RondoMusic.com - 828
Agile Septor Elite 827 MN DNC Ocreanburst Left - RondoMusic.com - 827

And yes, I'm left handed.


----------



## Rev2010 (Oct 11, 2013)

Are you planning to tune down below F# standard? If so, then yeah you should probably go with 28", if not then it's not really necessary to go that long. 


Rev.


----------



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

Rev2010 said:


> Are you planning to tune down below F# standard? If so, then yeah you should probably go with 28", if not then it's not really necessary to go that long.
> 
> 
> Rev.


Yeah, I'll probably stay in F# most of the time but I like the idea of a low E. So you would recommend the 828?


----------



## Roland777 (Oct 11, 2013)

Its 28.625, to be precise. Keep that in mind


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 11, 2013)

even if you went with a low E you'd be fine with the 27


----------



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> even if you went with a low E you'd be fine with the 27


Really? I doubt I would find myself going any lower than that. Maybe 27 is the better choice...


----------



## 7stg (Oct 11, 2013)

I vote 828. It's more than tension its tone. I just got an idea that may demonstrate it, on a bass hit the B1 on the A string 2nd fret then play the B1 on the E string 7th fret. The A string 2nd fret with the longer scale length will have more clarity.

To try which one is more comfortable find a bass with a 34" scale and capo at the 2nd fret for 30.3, 3rd fret for 28.6, and 4th fret for 27.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 11, 2013)

What about one of the 27-28 fanned models? Best of both worlds. I'm not sure if any are in stock, but they have them as a production model.


----------



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> What about one of the 27-28 fanned models? Best of both worlds. I'm not sure if any are in stock, but they have them as a production model.


What exactly is a fanned model? I see the option but I don't understand what it does.


----------



## 7stg (Oct 11, 2013)

Karidoriunodama said:


> What exactly is a fanned model? I see the option but I don't understand what it does.



Long on the bass side for lower inharmonicity, better tone, and proper tension. shorter on the treble side for easier playability.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 11, 2013)

7stg said:


> Long on the bass side for lower inharmonicity, better tone, and proper tension. shorter on the treble side for easier playability.



...and better tone up top, too.

OP, a fanned model gives you the longer lower strings without requiring longer high strings (which typically requires a thinner string, thereby degrading the tone). And as 7stg said, it results in lower inharmonicity, which basically just means it sounds better and will intonate better. And despite the freaky appearance of it, a small fan like 27-28.625 is virtually unnoticeable. Your question alone warrants a look at those Pendulum models from Rondo.


----------



## shawnperolis (Oct 11, 2013)

Agile Pendulum Pro 82728 EB CA Nat Mahog - RondoMusic.com

Problem solved


----------



## DancingCloseToU (Oct 11, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> Agile Pendulum Pro 82728 EB CA Nat Mahog - RondoMusic.com
> 
> Problem solved



Well, problem almost solved... Just gotta wait for rondo to get a left handed model in stock.


----------



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> ...and better tone up top, too.
> 
> OP, a fanned model gives you the longer lower strings without requiring longer high strings (which typically requires a thinner string, thereby degrading the tone). And as 7stg said, it results in lower inharmonicity, which basically just means it sounds better and will intonate better. And despite the freaky appearance of it, a small fan like 27-28.625 is virtually unnoticeable. Your question alone warrants a look at those Pendulum models from Rondo.


That's really cool, the larger scale ones give off an optical illusion. I'm assuming that would take some getting used to though as far sweeping and stuff. I want this guitar to be my best yet so I'm thinking about getting it made in Rondos custom shop. So the verdict so far is a 27-28.625 fanned 8-String. 

While I'm here, what would the benefit of a 28.625-30 over the latter be? Besides bigger balls.


----------



## Karidoriunodama (Oct 11, 2013)

DancingCloseToU said:


> Well, problem almost solved... Just gotta wait for rondo to get a left handed model in stock.


Haha, yeah. I'm glad you kept my left hand in the loop there.


----------



## 7stg (Oct 11, 2013)

Karidoriunodama said:


> That's really cool, the larger scale ones give off an optical illusion. I'm assuming that would take some getting used to though as far sweeping and stuff. I want this guitar to be my best yet so I'm thinking about getting it made in Rondos custom shop. So the verdict so far is a 27-28.625 fanned 8-String.
> 
> While I'm here, what would the benefit of a 28.625-30 over the latter be? Besides bigger balls.



from a necropost "for a low F#1, a 30 inch scale will have 32% better harmonic content and 15% more tension than 28 inch scale guitar."


----------



## Ben.Last (Oct 12, 2013)

I'll be the dissenting opinion: I would not go for a fanned fret guitar for normal 8 string tuning. 

Also, I have had both 28.625 and 27 inch Agile 8 string guitars. I sold my 828 and play nothing but 27 inch 8s now, and that's in drop E.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 12, 2013)

Ben.Last said:


> I'll be the dissenting opinion: I would not go for a fanned fret guitar for normal 8 string tuning.
> 
> Also, I have had both 28.625 and 27 inch Agile 8 string guitars. I sold my 828 and play nothing but 27 inch 8s now, and that's in drop E.



Yeah, I like 27" for standard tuning myself. I have 27 and 28" in standard and am actually fine with them. The only time I feel things get really squirrelly is when you move to 9 strings or tune down below F# much, and then I like a longer scale. And I just really don't like anything over 28" on the treble side because it's juuuust out of reach for me to do most of the stretches in the higher frets.


----------



## Preacher (Oct 12, 2013)

Having just got an 828 pro, I can definitely say get the 828, the ability to play actual chords on the low F is a seriously underrated thing to be able to do.

Having a 27" 7 feels right, but I think it would feel a bit short for an 8 (and I'm the guy who's 1st 8 was a 25.5" scale!)


----------



## Sponge (Oct 12, 2013)

Hello fellow lefty! 

Longer scale sounds better, and is better. Even if you're tuning to F, the clarity will be better. 

I have two 8s at 30 inch scale from Rondo. They sound much clearer on the lows, without being too muddy. If you have to use thicker strings for low tunings, they will sound muddy too.

That being said, 30 inch scale isn't the friendliest to bend notes on when playing high up on the frets.

Go Pendulum! 

... There was a 27-30 option, but I don't see it there now... WTF... I ordered one with 27-30 for December?


----------



## shawnperolis (Oct 12, 2013)

Karidoriunodama said:


> Haha, yeah. I'm glad you kept my left hand in the loop there.



I didn't notice that bit haha 

But I've never seen them stock a lefty fanned-fret model... That is a pretty hardcore niche right there, you might have to do a custom order thingy. It's not that expensive though, you can get it for about a grand or so.


----------



## Eight_String_Slinger (Oct 12, 2013)

I have played my rhythm guitarist's RG2228 (27") and my Schecter Hellraiser C-8 FR (28") nearly exclusivey for a few months and I have to say part of the reason I decided to prefer the Hellraiser was because I read so many SSO member's posts saying that the eighth string would resonate better with that extra inch. The RG 2228 is as good and/or better than the Hellraiser but the 28" gives a lot more strength to the tone and response of the low end. I am still buying a 2228 so just know that I am saying the Hellraiser C-8 is not a substitute for me as well, I love that guitar, its a beautiful beast.


----------



## 7stg (Oct 12, 2013)

Sponge said:


> There was a 27-30 option, but I don't see it there now... WTF...



Yeah, and I wanted a 27-30 9 string Intrepid. Now its 28.625-30. Well have to decide, maybe I'll shoot him an email.


----------



## sevenstringj (Oct 12, 2013)

For a fixed bridge, with standard tuning (E-E, B, F#), I'd go with 27".


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 12, 2013)

7stg said:


> Yeah, and I wanted a 27-30 9 string Intrepid. Now its 28.625-30. Well have to decide, maybe I'll shoot him an email.



Yeah, that seems like the ideal fanning for a 9. I was waiting for one of those, too. I have an order with XEN for a 9 string with that fan, and it's about to start getting built, so I probably won't be ordering the Agile after all. But IMO going for C#1 on less than 30" is less than ideal.

@Sponge - You can go for a thinner string on the high strings on your 30" if the bending is difficult. There is no inherent reason that a long scale instrument should have higher tension. Just choose the strings according to the tension you want.


----------



## Sponge (Oct 12, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, that seems like the ideal fanning for a 9. I was waiting for one of those, too. I have an order with XEN for a 9 string with that fan, and it's about to start getting built, so I probably won't be ordering the Agile after all. But IMO going for C#1 on less than 30" is less than ideal.
> 
> @Sponge - You can go for a thinner string on the high strings on your 30" if the bending is difficult. There is no inherent reason that a long scale instrument should have higher tension. Just choose the strings according to the tension you want.



I just find that the strings I use always snap too easily. I tried a 10, 09, and 08. Maybe I'm not using proper sets? What string would you recommend?


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 13, 2013)

Sponge said:


> I just find that the strings I use always snap too easily. I tried a 10, 09, and 08. Maybe I'm not using proper sets? What string would you recommend?



Yeah, it depends on the tension you like, and you do run into that snapping at that scale length, which is a drag. And of course the thicker strings just sound better. I use an .008 at anything around 28.625" and up. But it gets harder and harder to get anything super functional up around 30". At 25.5 on up to 27 or even 28 I'll use a .009 set, or sometimes a .0085. Sounds like you're doing much of the same experimentation I've done, though. But if you haven't already use the string tension calculator to reverse engineer the perfect gauges. In other words, tune/detune each string on your guitar to the perfect "feel" in terms of the tension, and disregard the actual pitch it's tuned to. Once you get the right feel for the string (individually or all of them) tension you like, then use a tuner to determine the pitch, and enter that, the current string size, and the length in the calculator and it will tell you the tension you have. Then go back in with that and plug it in with standard tuning and get your ideal set. I kind of eliminate that step since I like the basic feel of a 9 string set at 25.5", so I start with those tensions. But it's true, you don't have a lot of choice for the high E at 30". There's more variety for the other high strings, but that high E is just needing some compromise.


----------



## Experimorph (Oct 13, 2013)

Personally I would go for the 28 inch one. This is however completely up to your own preference.

I have never played a 28 inch scale, but I've owned a 30 inch Agile and currently play a 27 inch Ibanez. 28 seems like a perfect middle ground in terms of playability and tone.

The 30 inch Agile had the best low register I've ever played simply because of the great intonation - and that was with Rondo's own passive Cepheus pickups. However, the high B and E strings were a nightmare to play. And I really have huge hands.

The Ibanez on the other hand is a dream to play, and sounds all around amazing with an Aftermath set. I'm not completely happy with the intonation in the low register, though, and take into account that I tune my lowest string up a semi-tone to G; it's totally playable and sounds good, but I believe that extra one and a half inches would do lots of good.


----------



## Johnathan (Oct 15, 2013)

Karidoriunodama said:


> I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm torn between buying the Agile Intrepid Pro 828 and the Agile Septor Elite 827... I'm not sure if the extra inch or so will make a worth while difference. I could save a hundred bucks and go with the cool blue one or spend the extra dough for (from what I've read) better string tension.
> 
> Agile Intrepid Pro 828 EB EMG Nat Ash Left - RondoMusic.com - 828
> Agile Septor Elite 827 MN DNC Ocreanburst Left - RondoMusic.com - 827
> ...



If the point is to tune lower than the standard F# tuning it really depends on how low you want to go. I tune my 27'' in F standard, half a step down with no trouble at all, the same if i drop that tuning to drop Eb. If you plan to go below that, i would recommend something with a longer scale.


----------



## mitchybang (Oct 18, 2013)

Just go 30" and be done with it. Hahaha.


----------



## codycarter (Oct 19, 2013)

Have you ever played a baritone or maybe bass?

Though everyone saying you need a longer scale to play lower, I just don't agree. I had an rg8 for a while and hated the 1.5 inch difference compared to my new ltd h-338 which is 25.5. My old 30" agile was a god damn monster that I would never recommend as well


----------



## Lava Joe (Oct 20, 2013)

7stg said:


> I vote 828. It's more than tension its tone. I just got an idea that may demonstrate it, on a bass hit the B1 on the A string 2nd fret then play the B1 on the E string 7th fret. The A string 2nd fret with the longer scale length will have more clarity.
> 
> To try which one is more comfortable find a bass with a 34" scale and capo at the 2nd fret for 30.3, 3rd fret for 28.6, and 4th fret for 27.



I'd go with the 828. It's not THAT MUCH longer than the 27" IMHO. But that is coming from someone with big hands who plays 6, 7s, and 8s switching no problem, so scale never bugs me.

But the 28.625" is what I have on my Intrepid and I love it. You will seriously appreciate the tone, depth, resonance, and tension of the low E. It will also make your F# sound even tighter and better than the dropping it to E. So I think you would be best with that.

Basically, on my 28.625" I can get away with using 9s...that's awesome. So that leave you much more room with your truss rod if you were to simply just go up a gauge, your longer scale would be there to tank that tension and be setup perfectly for that. 

I'm not saying a 27" can't do it, but I had this same problem with my 7 string and I offed it immediately for the 8 string I have now because I knew the length was an issue, and boy I have been in heaven since then.

The lighter gauges will feel much easier to play, I can do very low chords that come through so nicely and so cutting. And that response would become even better once I put on heavier gauge strings.

It's really gonna annoy you if you're a hard picking guitarist because you will not like the floppiness of the lighter strings on a shorter scale and you will want to just keep beefing them up until it works for you. Well keep in mind that there is gonna come a point when your neck will not give anymore with the truss rod and you're still not happy and your gauges are all over the place.

You can keep making your low strings heavier, that's great, but the moment you want to go and do a chord or use the higher strings, you will be using so much force to fret the low strings that you are going to bend up the high strings out of pitch, making them sharp. It will be perfectly in tune and everything will sound an ass.


----------

