# Any love for Floyd Rose Bridges?



## vejichan (Jul 10, 2022)




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## vejichan (Jul 10, 2022)




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## tedtan (Jul 10, 2022)

Yeah, I’d bet that at least half of the people here are Floyd fans, including me.


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## odibrom (Jul 10, 2022)

Does it has to be Floyd Rose branded or can it be Ibanez take on double locking floating bridges? Because if the second is valid, I have 7 out of 11... the others are either hard tail or acoustic.


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## jaxadam (Jul 10, 2022)

OFR or Original Edge. Edge Pro is not bad.


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## xzacx (Jul 10, 2022)

Might be the first Floyd post ever to kick off with a Floyd I DON’T like.


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## Church2224 (Jul 10, 2022)

I love floyds, most of my guitars have them. Personal favorite is the Gotoh Floyd, then the lo pro, then the Edges and OFR tied.

I have had them on most of my guitars since my second guitar. I find them to hold tune extremely well when set up right and feel great, plus dive bombs can be fun.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 10, 2022)




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## vejichan (Jul 10, 2022)

Nice to see some love for Floyds here. --

all my floyds are blocked and have big brass blocks and esp arming adjusters


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## vejichan (Jul 10, 2022)

I have actually not used the bar in the past 10 years but stuck with floyd due to the tuning stability, look and feel


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## xzacx (Jul 10, 2022)

vejichan said:


> I have actually not used the bar in the past 10 years but stuck with floyd due to the tuning stability, look and feel


This is basically where I am. I rarely use them, but a blocked Floyd is as stable as it gets, looks cool, and I love having the fine tuners. So that’s my first choice and far superior to a fixed bridge imo.


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## vejichan (Jul 10, 2022)

xzacx said:


> This is basically where I am. I rarely use them, but a blocked Floyd is as stable as it gets, looks cool, and I love having the fine tuners. So that’s my first choice and far superior to a fixed bridge imo.


same, when you get a chance try the baby floyd (No fine tuners/locking nut)--- blocked, it's as stable as a regular floyd and you can go to drop d easily.


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## creepymcpeepers (Jul 11, 2022)

I was wondering why I see people get Floyd’s and block them off? Why not just not have a Floyd? Well just wondering…..


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## vejichan (Jul 11, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I was wondering why I see people get Floyd’s and block them off? Why not just not have a Floyd? Well just wondering…..


Tuning stability, looks cool and feel


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## odibrom (Jul 11, 2022)

Mine are full floating, all of them, 6 LoPros and 1 EdgePro...


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## creepymcpeepers (Jul 11, 2022)

vejichan said:


> Tuning stability, looks cool and feel
> 
> 
> odibrom said:
> ...


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## Adieu (Jul 11, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I was wondering why I see people get Floyd’s and block them off? Why not just not have a Floyd? Well just wondering…..



Used guitar buyers or limited model choices in what they were shopping for?


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## creepymcpeepers (Jul 11, 2022)

Adieu said:


> Used guitar buyers or limited model choices in what they were shopping for?


Oh I see so they wanted something and they couldn’t get it without the Floyd so they set it up for there preference?


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## Adieu (Jul 11, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Oh I see so they wanted something and they couldn’t get it without the Floyd so they set it up for there preference?



In this community it is definitely possible... almost all old good early 7s were Ibanezes with Edges


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 11, 2022)

I love Ibanez Edge bridges (all of the high-end variants are great, but I find the Lo-Pro & Zero most comfortable and aesthetically pleasing). I've never spent enough time with an OFR to judge how they compare.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 11, 2022)

Did you look to see what forum youre in? This forum salivates over floyds.


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## creepymcpeepers (Jul 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Did you look to see what forum youre in? This forum salivates over floyds.


I used to have a Floyd rose jackson…well maybe one day I will get one again


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## Emperoff (Jul 11, 2022)

In my case is simple. I find Tune-o-matic bridges extremely uncomfortable to play (which also add a non-ergonomic angle to the neck).

Floyds are flat mounted, so I only buy guitars with a bridge that sits flat (classic strat, Hipshot, Floyd Rose, or in very rare cases recessed TOMs).


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Jul 11, 2022)

OFR is still my favorite bridge.


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## Adieu (Jul 11, 2022)

It's so odd how bracket-shaped plates with saddles somehow became known as a Hipshot thing.

They were a thing on Japanese guitars from the 1970s. Pretty sure hipshot wasn't involved.


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## odibrom (Jul 11, 2022)

Nevermind...


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## NoodleFace (Jul 11, 2022)

3/4 of my guitars have Floyd's. 2 OFR 7s and whatever the hell carvin used


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## TheBloodstained (Jul 11, 2022)

I love Floyd's!

Mostly for the feel and stability, but they also produce some cool sounds. Squeals and flutters are fun 
Only have one FR guitar at the moment, but I'm expecting a second one to arrive within the coming weeks.


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## RevDrucifer (Jul 11, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> OFR or Original Edge or Lo-Pro Edge. Fuck everything else.


FTFY.


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## jaxadam (Jul 11, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> FTFY.



You know, I have no problem with the build quality of the Lo Pro, I just don’t get along with them for some reason. It’s like a mid engine corvette, and I guess I like my trems like Porsches and women, with the mass in the ass.


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## RevDrucifer (Jul 11, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> You know, I have no problem with the build quality of the Lo Pro, I just don’t get along with them for some reason. It’s like a mid engine corvette, and I guess I like my trems like Porsches and women, with the mass in the ass.



I can see that. 

I swapped the Lo-Pro on my JEM for an original Edge back in the 90’s because I felt I got a bit more flutter from the Edge and I wanted to be more like Vai. I’ve quite often thought of swapping it back but not sure I want to drop that kind of coin on a Lo-Pro. I was lucky to find someone with a gold Edge back in the 90’s and we did a direct trade.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 11, 2022)

No. I fully regret putting an FR in the first guitar I built. 19 year old me was an idiot for deciding on that and 21 year old me was a bigger idiot for not changing gears before it was too late.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 11, 2022)

I swear by them. I prefer Edge/Lo-Pro/OFR, but I also have a guitar with an Edge Pro that isn't bad. Definitely the most comfortable bridge I've ever played but due to no locking studs and some wear, mine isn't the most stable after pull ups. That and I can't seem to get the arm holder tight on the EP like I did with my Lo-Pro by taking it apart and tightening + applying loctite. My Lo-Pro arm is rock solid, EP not so much lol.

I do like my hardtail RG and my Strat since I can change tunings quickly if I'm jamming with other people and need to do Drop D really quickly or something, but nothing beats the stability and fun of a trem to me.


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## vortex_infinium (Jul 11, 2022)

vejichan said:


> Nice to see some love for Floyds here. --
> View attachment 110486
> all my floyds are blocked and have big brass blocks and esp arming adjusters



Okay I thought I was the only doofus who drops in brass blocks AND blocks the float but it seems I'm not alone.


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## Swarth (Jul 11, 2022)

OFR for life.


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## bzhang9 (Jul 11, 2022)

rather have a music man trem than a non locking floyd in the OP

biggest draw back of floyds, you cant match the neck radius and shimming saddles is a pain

ibby floyds are a little better but not quite there


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 11, 2022)

Floyds are the _bomb_. I don't think I'd buy anything without a version of one at this point in my life. Super reliable, easy to service (you heard me) and they sound/feel great.

Personal tier list:

Sophia 2:92 > Lo-Pro > GE1996T = OFR = Edge > Edge Pro = Edge Zero

I've never had the chance to try a ZR or Vigier-type ball bearing OFR, sadly. I still want to try an ABM Katana 5400, too.


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## yan12 (Jul 11, 2022)

The original edge and lo-pro are great for Ibby products.

Floyds, well the OFR is a staple but I have actually had great luck with the lo-pro version of it. I think it is called Floyd pro. I will need to look at it but it stays in tune great and flutters very well which is actually a function of set-up more than anything.

I am a hardtail guy for sure, but I always have at least 3 guitars with floyds. I don't own much Ibby product any more, but only because my tastes have changed over the years.


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## mmr007 (Jul 11, 2022)

I dont care for them anymore now that I discovered how comfortable kahler bridges. BUT….I am also not an avid user and dont really care for pulling up so If I have to have one I prefer it not be recessed which brings me right back to the kahler being more comfortable.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jul 11, 2022)

Been using multiple variations for nearly 40 years. They’re a cinch to set up and maintain once you know what you’re doing, and I have some tricks I’ve learned over the years to speed up this process.


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## BenjaminW (Jul 11, 2022)

Fun to play on, suck to work on. 

Dive-only Floyds >>>>>>>>>>>>> floating Floyds though is my hot take here.


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## dspellman (Jul 11, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I was wondering why I see people get Floyd’s and block them off? Why not just not have a Floyd? Well just wondering…..




I don't block mine, but I have Floyds on a whole stack of Les Pauls (and LP-alikes), in part to keep them in tune. 

So if I've got a Floyd on an LP but I don't want the butt of the Floyd lifting and sending the rest of the strings flat when I do a deep bend, a blocked Floyd gets 'er done. 

Honestly, a better solution that does all this is to put a new(ish) Kahler on the guitar. You can actually lock the thing into a hardtail mode and use a behind-the-nut string lock, and that will take care of the tuning issues. And when you need a trem, unlock the trem and go nuts.


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## loganflynn294 (Jul 11, 2022)

Yes. I don't really divebomb, but like the tuning stability when using heavy vibrato. I like them so much that I recently replaced the standard 6 screw vintage trem in a Strat with a Floyd Original. Holds tuning just as good as any factory equipped Floyd guitar.






I do prefer the feel of a Kahler, but Floyds just seem to stay in tune better for me.


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## tedtan (Jul 11, 2022)

dspellman said:


> I don't block mine, but I have Floyds on a whole stack of Les Pauls (and LP-alikes), in part to keep them in tune.
> 
> So if I've got a Floyd on an LP but I don't want the butt of the Floyd lifting and sending the rest of the strings flat when I do a deep bend, a blocked Floyd gets 'er done.
> 
> Honestly, a better solution that does all this is to put a new(ish) Kahler on the guitar. You can actually lock the thing into a hardtail mode and use a behind-the-nut string lock, and that will take care of the tuning issues. And when you need a trem, unlock the trem and go nuts.



Yeah, but its still a Khaler.


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## jaxadam (Jul 11, 2022)

tedtan said:


> Yeah, but its still a Khaler.


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## vilk (Jul 12, 2022)

I've gone back and forth in my life. The first one I got, I didn't ever take the time to learn how it works or learn about string tension etc. So I loved it at first, but then once I started trying to change things I became frustrated and had to have a shop fix it back up. Unfortunately that guitar was stolen, but afterwards I vowed to never buy another FR.

But if course, I did. And I had learned about tension by this time. But I was obsessed with trading and trying everything I can get my hands on, and unfortunately let go of some pretty cool guitars, a couple of which I really, really regret.

Then I got heavy into stoner doom, as well as joining a stoner doom band, so I more or less stopped being interested in Floyds for that period of time.

Then last year I found an old 90s Ibanez at mom n pop shop for a steal, so I grabbed it, and from that time (which I guess is relatively recent in the grand scheme of my guitar career) I've been hooked. Now I'm only looking at guitars if they have a double locking trem system.

I love the lo-pro. The most stable trem I've ever owned.

I also have a Yamaha with their version, and it would be really great if it weren't for that the cavity doesn't give enough room to pull up sufficiently. That's fixable, I just gotta get off my ass. 

Really interested to try a edge zero with the stabilizer bar. I've never heard anyone who is a big fan of it, but tbh I'm not super concerned with fluttering. For me it's more about doing crazy sounds with harmonics. Do you suppose the extra stability and pinwheel on the back would make it possible to change tunings/tensions without taking the back panel off at all? Do you even need to block these when doing a set up?


Also itching to try a kahler, and I've seen a couple online recently, but they're always attached to guitars that I'm not particularly interested in.


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## MattThePenguin (Jul 12, 2022)

Used to hate them but a particular guitar that I was drooling over (the one in my pfp actually) had an OFR. When I got it I made it my mission to fully understand the bridge. 2 years later, my hardtail Ibby hasn't been played in almost 9 months.


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## Aliascent (Jul 12, 2022)

I used to hate them when I was a teen, now 75% of my guitars have some kind of FR bridge.

Out of them, only two are OFR, rest is either licensed (mostly JT580/590) or Schaller Lockmeister.

Lately I've enjoyed setting up FR bridges, I find it very soothing and relaxing.


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## dspellman (Jul 12, 2022)

tedtan said:


> Yeah, but its still a Khaler.


I like 'em. 

I've had two on guitars from the late '80's since new (both Carvins, come to think of it). Dead reliable, and they work pretty well. I can pull the arm and treat it like a hard tail and you don't have a lot of the playability issues that you have to deal with on a floating Floyd. The new ones will actually lock into a hard tail mode (I've got just one of those, but the new ones are drop-in replacements for the originals). 

At one point maybe 10-15 years ago, there were a ton of different cam springs and saddle materials (the usual: titanium, brass, etc.) available.


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## tedtan (Jul 12, 2022)

dspellman said:


> I like 'em.
> 
> I've had two on guitars from the late '80's since new (both Carvins, come to think of it). Dead reliable, and they work pretty well. I can pull the arm and treat it like a hard tail and you don't have a lot of the playability issues that you have to deal with on a floating Floyd. The new ones will actually lock into a hard tail mode (I've got just one of those, but the new ones are drop-in replacements for the originals).
> 
> At one point maybe 10-15 years ago, there were a ton of different cam springs and saddle materials (the usual: titanium, brass, etc.) available.


I was joking around. I do prefer a Floyd, but don’t hate Khalers.


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Yeah, gun to my head I thiiiiink I prefer Kahler, but I understand why I guess people would say it's inferior to a Floyd based on it's design with it being single-locking and such. I'm just going by feel though, and I like that smoothness of it.

It's unfortunate that Kahlers are still pretty rare, so I can't just either buy a cheap guitar with one or guarantee I find one at any music store so I could really spend time going back and forth with a Floyd to confirm which I prefer, since I do think the tuning stability between FR and Kahler (both well setup and maintained of course) is so close where feel is really how you should decide what you prefer.

I would say my favorite FR style is probably the Sophia, again more based on the objective improvements to the FR-style bridges out there, as feel wise I can really gel with any of the FR stuff. 

I played a Vigier with its FR model in Paris, I like the ball bearings idea but at least this one seemed like the low action was a bit of a detriment to the pull-up range, I remember trying to see how high it could go and it was getting stuck on the pickups sooner than any other FR equipped guitar I've messed with.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 12, 2022)

havent been using floyd equiped guitars for some time unless they have been blocked, but recently i did a set up on two of mine and unblocked them. I left them on the bench for a couple weeks before i got back to finish . they are not locked down at the nut becuase i had some fine intonation to complete but life happens so there they sat. i got back to them last night and wouldnt you know they are still dead nuts in tune. I was literally amazed. i thought the new springs would win the tug of war but they are stable as can be. still, there could be some refinement on the changing strings process. its cumbersome if you're in a rush


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Floyds are the _bomb_. I don't think I'd buy anything without a version of one at this point in my life. Super reliable, easy to service (you heard me) and they sound/feel great.
> 
> Personal tier list:
> 
> ...


I always forget the ABM exists...but looking at it and reading their manual it seems like it would honestly be the best FR-style trem out there imo, or at least take some stuff that Sophia has like the Global tuner wheel and add it to the Katana...not needing shims for the radius and having the straight string lock seems pretty awesome, and especially if the sustain does actually last that would be a no brainer, since I've always hated how anything less than basically max distortion/volume/gain meant RAPID decaying of notes when using the bar....like I can't even practice a whammy part acoustically since I can't hear it.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 12, 2022)

@jco5055 When I swapped an OFR for a GE1996T I didn't notice a large difference in terms of sustain or tone, but going from the GE1996T to the Sophia was night and day.

For reference I'm very anti 'product improves your tone!' claims from any manufacturer. As far as I'm concerned it's nearly all snake oil being sold hand over fist because guitarists are tribalistic in nature and believe some mysticism they perceive in music itself as a concept translates directly over to the instrument, 1:1.

Having said all that, I noticed a difference just strumming about after changing strings before I even plugged it in - it sounded more dense and hi-fi, if that articulation makes sense. I suppose sustain and clarity would be the apt terms but I don't feel those are fully accurate. Regardless, it noticeably made a positive tonal difference, and while I'm still not sold on the big block upgrade with regular Floyds the whole Sophia assembly being milled out of quality metal might have some merit.

With regards to the block in the ABM, IIRC the block is one piece with the entire assembly, so you couldn't swap it.


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @jco5055 When I swapped an OFR for a GE1996T I didn't notice a large difference in terms of sustain or tone, but going from the GE1996T to the Sophia was night and day.
> 
> For reference I'm very anti 'product improves your tone!' claims from any manufacturer. As far as I'm concerned it's nearly all snake oil being sold hand over fist because guitarists are tribalistic in nature and believe some mysticism they perceive in music itself as a concept translates directly over to the instrument, 1:1.
> 
> ...


thanks for the clarification! I now just need to try the Katana, as I've had the mindset of "Sophia is definitively the best FR bridge" since forever...but having played it and owned at one point two guitars with them I still think it's the best that I've played.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 12, 2022)

@jco5055 The Sophia is wonderfully engineered, for sure. A tad pricey and not really doing anything groundbreaking to dethrone the OFR but a great product nonetheless. Never having to unlock the nut when running out of range with the fine tuners is a convenience I'm just enamored with, though.

They also make locking nuts for retrofitting, too:







Honestly I think it would be kind of annoying to unlock each string individually vs. the traditional 2 strings per block (though with the 2:92 you only really need to do that when changing strings or if one breaks) but aesthetically I think it's nifty. You can choose brass or stainless for the nut slot piece, as well - fully modular and all that. It can be installed the old-school way from behind the neck or the contemporary method via wood screws through the top of the shelf.

I don't think it looks the best retrofitted onto something with a more traditional design (such as that Charvel headstock) but something built with it in mind could make it work pretty decently, I think.


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @jco5055 The Sophia is wonderfully engineered, for sure. A tad pricey and not really doing anything groundbreaking to dethrone the OFR but a great product nonetheless. Never having to unlock the nut when running out of range with the fine tuners is a convenience I'm just enamored with, though.
> 
> They also make locking nuts for retrofitting, too:
> 
> ...


also a few of the nuts can even be used as headless bridges which is nice


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## Wolfhorsky (Jul 12, 2022)

I love Floyds. I got them in 11 of my axes.
My fav atm is Original Edge, then Floyd Rose Pro, then Lo Pro Edge, then Schaller sth then Jackson branded. 
I got my headless build with sophia so we will see…


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Wolfhorsky said:


> I love Floyds. I got them in 11 of my axes.
> My fav atm is Original Edge, then Floyd Rose Pro, then Lo Pro Edge, then Schaller sth then Jackson branded.
> I got my headless build with sophia so we will see…


Who’s the builder?


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## Wolfhorsky (Jul 12, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Who’s the builder?


My friend and luthier... Majesty Custom Guitars (https://www.majestycustoms.pl - site is only in polish, sorry). I designed the body shape. It should be ready in 4-6 weeks and I shall post NGD here, as it is partially my baby. It will look just like Ibanez headless should look like (in my paralel universe).


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## jco5055 (Jul 12, 2022)

Also, does a hantug trem do anything different than a Floyd other than being titanium? I’m talking about non-Aristides version…


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## BrutalRob (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I always forget the ABM exists...but looking at it and reading their manual it seems like it would honestly be the best FR-style trem out there imo, or at least take some stuff that Sophia has like the Global tuner wheel and add it to the Katana...not needing shims for the radius and having the straight string lock seems pretty awesome, and especially if the sustain does actually last that would be a no brainer, since I've always hated how anything less than basically max distortion/volume/gain meant RAPID decaying of notes when using the bar....like I can't even practice a whammy part acoustically since I can't hear it.


I tried it at some point, but got back to a Lockmeister pretty soon. The ideas were nice, but i think the Floyds are easier to adjust. I mean what is the big deal about shimming the Saddles?


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## jahosy (Jul 13, 2022)

Love floyds. Got a Schaller (Caparison & Jackson) and OFR (Jackson CS), just love the feel and stability of them. 

Actually planning to replace a TOM bridge to a Floyd FRX system. Read alot of good things about them.


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Yeah, gun to my head I thiiiiink I prefer Kahler, but I understand why I guess people would say it's inferior to a Floyd based on it's design with it being single-locking and such.


It's actually double-locking. Depending on the builder, you can have a locking nut or a behind-the-nut locker (both work equally as well). The main difference is that one is cam-actuated, the other is a fulcrum setup. With the former, you don't have to dig out a big spring cavity from the back of the guitar.


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

jahosy said:


> Actually planning to replace a TOM bridge to a Floyd FRX system. Read alot of good things about them.


I'm SO not a fan of the FRX. Floyd is making a concerted push to get YouTubers nodding their heads positively about them, believing that Social Media will save the FRX. But it (and its predecessor, the Floyd Les Paul, a similar trem they designed to be able to be added and subtracted to/from a Les Paul without damaging it) hasn't caught on all that well. You still need to put a behind-the-nut locker screwed down to the headstock to make it work.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

dspellman said:


> It's actually double-locking. Depending on the builder, you can have a locking nut or a behind-the-nut locker (both work equally as well). The main difference is that one is cam-actuated, the other is a fulcrum setup. With the former, you don't have to dig out a big spring cavity from the back of the guitar.


is it double locking? I've been told it's technically single locking because the string at the saddle gets like held in place the way hipshot trems do (aka it basically gets caught on a hook, but with string tension there's really no way it would slip since it would somehow have to pull away from the neck direction-wise), regardless of what kind of nut is used. 

In practice as mentioned it seems like it really wouldn't need to be locked at the bridge side, but just technically it's not locking so it's objectively less stable than Floyd types.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> is it double locking? I've been told it's technically single locking because the string at the saddle gets like held in place the way hipshot trems do (aka it basically gets caught on a hook, but with string tension there's really no way it would slip since it would somehow have to pull away from the neck direction-wise), regardless of what kind of nut is used.
> 
> In practice as mentioned it seems like it really wouldn't need to be locked at the bridge side, but just technically it's not locking so it's objectively less stable than Floyd types.



Nah, he's wrong. It's a single (nut) locker, but locking at the nut is arguably the more important locking point.


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## dspellman (Jul 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nah, he's wrong. It's a single (nut) locker, but locking at the nut is arguably the more important locking point.


I'm WRONG?!?! How can this be? How can the balance of the Universe (this one, not the bunch in the Multi-Verse) be maintained?!?

Actually, you're correct. I have locking nuts on the Kahler-equipped guitars and in the whatever-many years since my oldest Kahler (1986?) was born, I don't think it's really ever been any more OUT of tune than any of my Floyds (I think my oldest "licensed" version is from '92). 

Gibson put Kahlers (stamped with the Gibson logo!) on some of their Les Pauls from about '81 to '89, and it was one of those that alerted me to the fact that a locking nut on an LP would keep the stupid things in tune. I even tried one with a locking nut and a TP6 (with micro tuners) tailpiece. And that worked pretty well, too.


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## 4Eyes (Jul 13, 2022)

I have tried to avoid floating bridges until last year, when I got Ibanez Prestige with Lo-Pro Edge, I had it blocked for about a year...and now I'm slowly getting into WOAaaauuuueeeeiiiiiiii iii iii iii


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

A dark horse candidate for a good floating bridge seems to be the Vega trem, as reviews and such seem to say it has as much range as a Floyd...doesn't have fine tuners so a locking nut might be impractical.

Interestingly, on their site they claim a locking nut would actually be worse for tuning stability, but surely that's not possible right? I can't imagine with any tremolo bridge out there a locking nut could make things worse.


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> A dark horse candidate for a good floating bridge seems to be the Vega trem, as reviews and such seem to say it has as much range as a Floyd...doesn't have fine tuners so a locking nut might be impractical.
> 
> Interestingly, on their site *they claim a locking nut would actually be worse for tuning stability*, but surely that's not possible right? I can't imagine with any tremolo bridge out there a locking nut could make things worse.


As you've pointed out yourself, a locking nut would negatively impact tuning due to the lack of fine tuners.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> As you've pointed out yourself, a locking nut would negatively impact tuning due to the lack of fine tuners.


Edit: added the screenshot 



Ah well yeah, I just read it more to not be about the fine tuners but more about it in generally stable, at least that’s how the website states it


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## jco5055 (Jul 20, 2022)

Random thought regards to bridges (Please let me know if this isn't appropriate since it's not FR specific):

But for the ball bearing trems out there like Kahler and Steinberger S and Transtrems, I know they are only single locking...but (at least how Kahlers work as I've never played Steinberger) considering the string height never changes when diving or pulling up, would locking at the saddle really be necessary? 

With Floyds and diving, I understand how it benefits to be locked at the saddle since the strings are slacked and they are laying however which way, sometimes even basically on top of each other/way out of alignment like my screenshots here of my own guitar down to slack:




so it makes sense that without a locked saddle, there's a good chance the strings don't return perfectly...but since with a Kahler it basically doesn't move would there really be as much of a risk?

I wished I had a Kahler to show, but if you look up any video of Kahlers and abusing the tremolo you'll see how the strings don't radically move around.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Random thought regards to bridges (Please let me know if this isn't appropriate since it's not FR specific):
> 
> But for the ball bearing trems out there like Kahler and Steinberger S and Transtrems, I know they are only single locking...but (at least how Kahlers work as I've never played Steinberger) considering the string height never changes when diving or pulling up, would locking at the saddle really be necessary?
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with Kahler bridges, but are they significantly different to the Ibanez ZR (Zero Resistance) trem that has ball bearings instead of knife edges...but is double-locking?


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## jco5055 (Jul 20, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> I'm not familiar with Kahler bridges, but are they significantly different to the Ibanez ZR (Zero Resistance) trem that has ball bearings instead of knife edges...but is double-locking?


I don’t think so…. Though the Vigier Floyd is similar in regards to the ZR in that it’s double locking on ball bearings, but I know from experience it still goes up and down like a regular Floyd.

I don’t think double locking on a kahler would hurt, I just wonder if it’s as necessary as a fulcrum tremolo.


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## MantraSky. (Jul 21, 2022)

My all time favorite bridge is the Floyd Rose (German made) both Original and Floyd Pro.....


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 21, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Random thought regards to bridges (Please let me know if this isn't appropriate since it's not FR specific):
> 
> But for the ball bearing trems out there like Kahler and Steinberger S and Transtrems, I know they are only single locking...but (at least how Kahlers work as I've never played Steinberger) considering the string height never changes when diving or pulling up, would locking at the saddle really be necessary?
> 
> ...



Of course Kahlers, and really any trem, slacks the strings when diving. That's how it works. 

It's the opposite, pulling up, where something like a Kahler with its independent saddle and moving blocks, leads to less string movement as with Floyds you sink the saddles below where they rest at zero. 

The downside to single locking is that when the strings go slack they're free to move around and when tension returns they can settle in a slightly different spot depending on how they're "caught" in the bridge. That's where you get some tuning issues sometimes.


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## eaeolian (Jul 21, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> In my case is simple. I find Tune-o-matic bridges extremely uncomfortable to play (which also add a non-ergonomic angle to the neck).
> 
> Floyds are flat mounted, so I only buy guitars with a bridge that sits flat (classic strat, Hipshot, Floyd Rose, or in very rare cases recessed TOMs).


Which is why I only play topmount Floyds, because they put your hand in the air.


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## eaeolian (Jul 21, 2022)

jahosy said:


> Love floyds. Got a Schaller (Caparison & Jackson) and OFR (Jackson CS), just love the feel and stability of them.
> 
> Actually planning to replace a TOM bridge to a Floyd FRX system. Read alot of good things about them.


The FRX is awesome. I was stunned by how well it works, with only nut hangup being an issue.


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## Emperoff (Jul 21, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Which is why I only play topmount Floyds, because they put your hand in the air.


Choices are a wonderful thing!


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## BusinessMan (Jul 21, 2022)

I like them more for the comfort and hand position than functionality.


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## jco5055 (Aug 2, 2022)

Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline



Looks interesting...


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 2, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline
> 
> 
> 
> Looks interesting...




Reminds me of some of the old Kahler units. Seems cool, but they lost me at the usual "tone mumbo jumbo."

It's not too expensive, which is nice. Usually these "let's make a couple changes and call it revolutionary and say it's magic" bridges are much more expensive. 

If someone can't setup or operate a Floyd, I doubt it's because they can't use a pick to adjust the fine tuners.


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## Emperoff (Aug 2, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Looks awful...



FTFY


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## jco5055 (Aug 2, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> FTFY


Yeah it's at least visually not appealing at all...I'm still curious to see the low profile version of the ABM Katana that is coming out in like December


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## eaeolian (Aug 2, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Reminds me of some of the old Kahler units. Seems cool, but they lost me at the usual "tone mumbo jumbo."
> 
> It's not too expensive, which is nice. Usually these "let's make a couple changes and call it revolutionary and say it's magic" bridges are much more expensive.
> 
> If someone can't setup or operate a Floyd, I doubt it's because they can't use a pick to adjust the fine tuners.


This is kinda the ultimate answer to what the LoPro was trying to do, make the trem flat. Not needed for my purposes, but at least it's price-competitive with a regular Floyd.


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## ixlramp (Aug 2, 2022)

I just had an in-depth look at the Tremoline, a very impressive radical design improvement of the FR mechanism. So compact and tidy.
An intonation adjustment screw is provided that is inserted into the threaded hole in the back of the saddle to press against the 'pitch fine adjustment screw', i love that.
The strings are offset so that the saddle lock-down screws can be easily accessed


MaxOfMetal said:


> Seems cool, but they lost me at the usual "tone mumbo jumbo."


It is not remotely that bad.
A high mass sustain block, and the use of high density/high hardness metals, can indeed improve tone.
The wording is not good here though: "The main enemy of sound quality is the high friction in some critical points. Low friction allows the tremolo to return correctly to the central position.". This seems to be referring to 'pitch stability', which is not really thought of as 'sound quality' (tone), although in a way it could be.


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## trem licking (Aug 2, 2022)

meh. no big changes really. ibanez covered most of these changes a long time ago. using a tool to do fine tuner adjustments is also a big no, and not worth the trade off


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## nickgray (Aug 2, 2022)

I think using a pick for turning the fine tuners will drive you crazy in no time. Nicer intonation adjustment is mostly pointless, how often do you genuinely need to adjust intonation? The biggest problem - spare parts. FR is a standard, and even in the relatively far future you should have no problem finding spare parts.

It also looks ugly as hell in the larger FR route.


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## ClownShoes (Aug 2, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline
> 
> 
> 
> Looks interesting...



This is actually brilliant.

Only problem is in takeup, you've got to get builders putting them on guitars. I'd like to see one of the big names taking a chance on a different unit.


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## KentBrockman (Aug 3, 2022)

I have guitars with the Edge Zero, Lo Pro, and Edge Pro bridges (and 7 string variants of the latter two). 

I mainly buy double locking trem guitars for the tuning stability. Maybe once a year, I will actually put the tremolo arm in and use the bridge for its intended purpose. I use it, but only occasionally.

Functionality aside, superstrats without double locking trems just look weird.


----------



## odibrom (Aug 3, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline
> 
> 
> 
> Looks interesting...




It's interesting to see that he still strings a floyd rose cutting the ball end of the strings (he specifically mentions that). I haven't done that for 20+ years already... string any floyd rose guitar from the tuners, the strings' ball end stays at the tuners then I cut the excess at the bridge and voilá, easy-peasy.

Other than that, I'm kind of fed up with his "go-to" argumentative strategy to sell a product. There is no need to bash on the Floyd Rose contraption in order to sell a new product, just emphasize what matters. Yeah, aligned with the strings intonation screws aren't great, BUT f the guy doesn't know about the FR intonation tools that are around for 20+ years already as well as the new Red Bishop ones, he probably shouldn't be doing this video... and let's face it, with these tools installed at the saddle, a dive bomb solves the problem of the intonation screw access.

Using a pick to manage the fine tuning won't work for me because my picks are... errr... custom made and probably won't fit the grooves. Floyd Rose has better design here. Also, there are low profile Floyd Rose branded vibratos as are obviously the Ibanez ones...

It's a meh video with over-the-top argumentative posture that doesn't sell anything to me. I hate comparative advertisements, more so with 1 hour long... it lost me after 5 minutes.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 3, 2022)

It's trying to sell a Floyd to someone who probably isn't great with Floyds as far as setup and operation goes. It's just a non-starter, because none of that stuff is really going to help.


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## SCJR (Aug 3, 2022)

bzhang9 said:


> rather have a music man trem than a non locking floyd in the OP
> 
> biggest draw back of floyds, you cant match the neck radius and shimming saddles is a pain
> 
> ibby floyds are a little better but not quite there



Never thought about this. Guess it's only possible with their locking nut?


----------



## jco5055 (Aug 3, 2022)

Yeah, even as a guy who likes Kahler (not saying I'm 100% that over Floyd, but I'm not the opposite which is common), when I see the argument for why someone prefers Kahler as mostly just "less routing required, don't have to cut the balls off strings" I'm like really? Is it that hard/an inconvenience for you? Maybe you should just stick to the strat-style tremolos or even just hardtail if the thought of clipping the balls off strings or tuning the way you have to is wayyyy too much.

People who prefer Kahler that the reasoning is the feel, or able to palm mute aggressively without it going out of tune makes much more sense to me.


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## JW Shreds (Aug 3, 2022)

I love floyds, i always keep at least one around to pretend im Rocky George or Dimebag with. With the magic of Digitech Drop pedals and the Pitch block on Fractal axefx3/fm3/fm9 the sole thing i disliked about them is gone.
And setting them up is actually a lot easier than it seems, it becomes second nature after a while.

I kid you not there was this local music store i used to take my guitars in for setups because i was just starting out and didn’t know what i was doing and always had it drilled in my head that if i touched the truss rod the guitar would explode.  the owner literally had a sign posted in huge letters “will not setup floyd rose guitars” 

I truly think it’s one of the biggest misconceptions that floyds are just these aneurysm inducing torture devices


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## SCJR (Aug 3, 2022)

BenjaminW said:


> Dive-only Floyds >>>>>>>>>>>>> floating Floyds though is my hot take here.



I think I'm going to start doing this. Makes the most sense. Your left hand is bending notes up and your right hand bends down. Feels symmetrical and I expect makes you less susceptible to overusing the trem.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 3, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline
> 
> 
> 
> Looks interesting...




Floyd alternatives always seem like a solution looking for a problem to me. They all rag on the FR system, then just copy the basic principle and integrate some fixes for common issues. It's not to say that improvements can't be made such as an integrated intonation tool, but overall I find the clunky OG system/low profile evolutions of that system like the FR Pro and Ibanez Lo-Pro Edge sit nicely between functionality and simplicity/replaceable parts.


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## Wolfhorsky (Aug 3, 2022)

Regarding Sophia 2:92 trem. I played on my custom headless (NDG coming soon - as soon as the paint job is done). I must say - WOW. I've chosen the simplest version as I want flutter and wobbly things going on. It feel very high quality. It flutters almost as good as my fav The Edge (original). Nice tuning machines and sustain with great overtones - the guitar wants to sing (I know that good wood choice was a factor as well, but... wow).
Now I can't wait to get the ready version of my custom headless. More soon.

Regarding the Tremoline - seems like they tried to open the opened doors. And it isn't available in black.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Aug 3, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Saw Henning Pauly post about a new bridge called Tremoline
> 
> 
> 
> Looks interesting...



Looks godawful in the huge Floyd cavity, I love my Floyd and see this as unnecessary for myself.


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## yan12 (Aug 3, 2022)

Henning is usually okay. But this video actually pissed me off. He always seems to be some weird Dr. Evil character trying to mix humor styles. Stick to playing guitar and talking about what you know.

First of all, he should practice using the bar for the opening track more than he did...that put me off right away. Is it such a POS that when you use the bar it falls out of pitch? Oh no, Dr. Evil was giving us a taste of musical humor.

Bagging on Floyds and Ibbys; they work just fine and have for years. I see no merit in this design except they forgot to credit ABM for some of it.

As mentioned, there are intonation tools out there for the aforementioned trem systems. 

Bottom line. If you have no mechanical inclination, play a hardtail. If you do, invest in YOURSELF and learn how to set one up right.
Once you do, you can enjoy quality chirps, dives, and all out wankery whenever you want. With any floating trem in the world, if you break a string in the middle of the set, well, then we'll all sound like Henning on the opening track.

Damn, I was having a good day until I saw this horseshit.


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## jco5055 (Aug 3, 2022)

I still wish someone would bring back the ZR or ZR style- it's unfortunate that they quit making them because of a patent by the Sophia guy, especially since it seems geared towards the ZPS stabilizer system...so why not release a stabilizer free one? And be made in USA/Germany/Japan etc...I'm surprised GOTOH or Schaller or similar company hasn't tried it out.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 3, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I still wish someone would bring back the ZR or ZR style- it's unfortunate that they quit making them because of a patent by the Sophia guy, especially since it seems geared towards the ZPS stabilizer system...so why not release a stabilizer free one? And be made in USA/Germany/Japan etc...I'm surprised GOTOH or Schaller or similar company hasn't tried it out.



I don't get wanting it made in a specific country. 

It's just milled/cast parts that are then plated/coated. 

No one is hand milling these things, it's mostly automated with just someone checking tolerances, which can be done literally anywhere. 

There's just no money in making trems that don't easily fit into existing Floyd routes. It's why any bridge that comes out now, whether a Hantug, CSL, Tremoline, Katana, etc. needs to swap in first and foremost. 

The ZR died because it was easier to just switch to an existing bridge, Edge, and call it a day vs. redesigning for a single series of guitars.


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## jco5055 (Aug 4, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't get wanting it made in a specific country.
> 
> It's just milled/cast parts that are then plated/coated.
> 
> ...


sorry, I only said country of origin because from what I've read online it seems like the ZR was considered inferior from a quality perspective? like the metal was a bit too soft and such


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 4, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> sorry, I only said country of origin because from what I've read online it seems like the ZR was considered inferior from a quality perspective? like the metal was a bit too soft and such



The ZR isn't that bad, it's more of design issues, like the posts being thin and needing to turn the set nut before adjusting. 

Once you take it apart, clean and lubricate the threads it's a perfectly serviceable bridge if you like the bounce that ball bearings bring. 

The Zero trems have a lot of small parts, and higher complexity, and that's why they were built where they were, they're just expensive bridges to manufacture relative to more basic units like the OFR and similar.


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## BabUShka (Aug 4, 2022)

I sold my RG550 Genesis yesterday after trying to change string gauge. I love playing them, but just cant handle it. Im an engineer working for a big tech company.. But FR? Im too dumb for that shit. 

Will probably replace with a RG5221 eventually. I really the system on my JP6. Somehow its super simple to set up in comparison.


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## jco5055 (Aug 5, 2022)

I just played a Lo Pro Edge today, and in my experience I think it still is the king in terms of feel at least. I've seen people say the original Edge feels better/smoother, but I think the Lo Pro is still king...this is just recently based on playing 3 guitars (2 Edge and 1 Lo Pro), and at least the Lo Pro and 1 Edge had the standard 3 springs installed. 

I think my overall like of smoother trems like Kahler and the like is because for most of my playing experience it's been split between an OFR 7 and Lo Pro Edge 7, and I'd definitely say the latter is smoother for sure.


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## nickgray (Aug 5, 2022)

BabUShka said:


> But FR? Im too dumb for that shit.



Just put a piece of wood or some taped coins in the cavity so that it blocks the trem from doing pull ups. Add some spring tension, and you're good to go.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 5, 2022)

How a Floyd Rose works:




That's it. That's the _whole mystery._


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 5, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> How a Floyd Rose works:
> 
> View attachment 112006
> 
> ...



Expanding on that, it's how every floating bridge works too. 

So a Hipshot contour, or Gotoh 510, or EBMM JP, etc. as long as you can both dive and pull up will require the same adjustment principles to setup. 

The Floyd only throws in locking, which works passively to keep the strings from shifting. That's it.


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## xzacx (Aug 5, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> How a Floyd Rose works:
> 
> View attachment 112006
> 
> ...


According to a lot of people here, that all goes out the window if you add a string or two. Even though it doesn’t.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Aug 5, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Floyd only throws in locking


God forbid you need to change the intonation

I like floyds, in fact I just put in a custom order for a guitar with a baby floyd, but let's not pretend they're almost as easy to set up as a 510


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 5, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> God forbid you need to change the intonation
> 
> I like floyds, in fact I just put in a custom order for a guitar with a baby floyd, but let's not pretend they're almost as easy to set up as a 510



I've been working on them since before "key" tools were common, but even then it only adds a few minutes at worst. With a key, it's a half turn per string slower than something like a Hipshot. 

How often are you changing intonation though vs playing? I only adjust intonation if I'm changing string gauge/tuning, which isn't that often. While I play far more frequently. 

So it's a trade-off I'll happily make. An extra 3 or 5 minutes every month or two so when I play everyday I'm in tune and ready to go, because I don't always have a ton of time to play and rather just hit it than fuss with the tuning. 

If it takes you longer than a few extra minutes, and especially if it frustrates you, then perhaps consider you're doing it a non-ideal way. Which is fine. 

Most people don't know how to adjust Floyds, and more than that don't use the right tools. It's a fairly easy to learn skill, and the cost of tools has plummeted, not to mention all the gadgets you can get to help.


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## Mboogie7 (Aug 5, 2022)

i have a gotoh 510 on my main and after just eyeballing it, I figured out how to adjust the trem. I imagine it’s a very similar concept of a Floyd and tbh, it’s not bad. Once I figured it out, I had a “duh, that makes perfect sense” moment lol. Ezpz since then


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## Crash Dandicoot (Aug 6, 2022)

Floyds are fundamentally simple systems to both operate and service. You'd have to have an active disinterest in your own instrument and _how _it functions coupled with a wilful aversion to learning to draw an opposing conclusion. The common countering logic along the lines of "setting intonation is annoying" or "changing strings/gauges necessitates a full setup" is disingenuous at best. There is some truth to the latter point - assuming you own a single guitar, though realistically we all know better than that. It's not an impossible scenario but certainly an outlier and to champion it as damning evidence against the Floyd's advantages is, frankly, pretty weak. To really twist the knife - a full setup on a Floyd is hardly a long affair and as Max stated, an extra 3-5 minutes is hardly a dramatic hurdle to overcome.

A bit of paraphrasing:

I don't find Floyds complicated, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do - and for the people who do find them complicated, denigrate means 'put down'.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 6, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Floyds are fundamentally simple systems to both operate and service. You'd have to have an active disinterest in your own instrument and _how _it functions coupled with a wilful aversion to learning to draw an opposing conclusion. The common countering logic along the lines of "setting intonation is annoying" or "changing strings/gauges necessitates a full setup" is disingenuous at best. There is some truth to the latter point - assuming you own a single guitar, though realistically we all know better than that. It's not an impossible scenario but certainly an outlier and to champion it as damning evidence against the Floyd's advantages is, frankly, pretty weak. To really twist the knife - a full setup on a Floyd is hardly a long affair and as Max stated, an extra 3-5 minutes is hardly a dramatic hurdle to overcome.
> 
> A bit of paraphrasing:
> 
> I don't find Floyds complicated, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do - and for the people who do find them complicated, denigrate means 'put down'.



I don't use the "like" system, but if I did, I'd "" this.


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## jephjacques (Aug 6, 2022)

I like how you can go WEEEOOOOOOWEEWEEWEEEWEEEYAYAYAYAAYAAAOOOWWWWW with a floyd


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 6, 2022)

Floyds are supreme because starting a hip hop set with a load of THX intro divebombs has the crowd looking at you like you came from space, and the spring cavity is the perfect place to stash weed when playing festivals


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## trem licking (Aug 6, 2022)

I've said it before and I'll say it again... If you think floyds are more complicated than a gotoh or hipshot non locker, take off the locking pads. You now have a mega hipshot with fine tuners and a nut that will accept any string size without mods and won't ever bind... Much better than any bone or tusq nut by miles. Throw locking tuners on and ill bet it still performs better than those mentioned trems even with the locking pads off


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## xzacx (Aug 6, 2022)

trem licking said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again... If you think floyds are more complicated than a gotoh or hipshot non locker, take off the locking pads. You now have a mega hipshot with fine tuners and a nut that will accept any string size without mods and won't ever bind... Much better than any bone or tusq nut by miles. Throw locking tuners on and ill bet it still performs better than those mentioned trems even with the locking pads off


Not having to worry about nut slots is a great and often overlooked bonus of a Floyd. Another is being able to pop the springs, change pickups, polish the frets, reinstall the springs—and forget restringing—you don’t even have to retune.


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## josh1 (Aug 6, 2022)

I hate dealing with them but all of the coolest guitars have them!


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## loganflynn294 (Aug 7, 2022)

Got a satin chrome OFR for my latest build. Took a chance on this one, I’ve never seen anything other than chrome, nickel, black, or gold in person. Finish is flawless. I’m just so used to Floyds at this point, anything else on a strat just feels out of place to me now.


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## 73647k (Aug 7, 2022)

loganflynn294 said:


> Got a satin chrome OFR for my latest build. Took a chance on this one, I’ve never seen anything other than chrome, nickel, black, or gold in person. Finish is flawless. I’m just so used to Floyds at this point, anything else on a strat just feels out of place to me now.
> View attachment 112069


This thing looks so gnarly, love it


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## cowboystring (Aug 7, 2022)

Floyd are great, I love the way it looks and feel on a guitar


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## Edika (Aug 8, 2022)

Most of my guitars have some type of floating bridge and most of my guitars have them. I even find them superior to hard tails due to tuning stability and string gauge changes and tuning changes. It might no be as immediate as a hard tail to do a drop tuning or even change strings if a string breaks but if you want to drastically change a tuning and a string gauge you don't need to change the nut like a you do in a hard tail.

My only problem after getting hard tails is that I prefer their sound more than Floyd equipped bridges! I'm not sure if it's the micro vibrations/wobble of the springs when playing a note or the intrinsic sound of the instrument or I've just been lucky with the hard tails I've had but my favorite sounds come from those instruments. Not that the Floyd equipped ones are bad, not by any chance, it's just that the hard tails I have an edge over them. Nothing that would be heard in a recording or playing live or with a band though. I've tried thick Floyd brass blocks on the ones I have Floyd's and only one of the guitars I liked the sound more. All the rest got their old blocks back. Great for E and D standard, too muddy for any tuning below that!


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## TornAnus (Aug 8, 2022)

I am in the love em camp. What is the best intonation key available for them right now?


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## eaeolian (Aug 8, 2022)

JW Shreds said:


> I kid you not there was this local music store i used to take my guitars in for setups because i was just starting out and didn’t know what i was doing and always had it drilled in my head that if i touched the truss rod the guitar would explode.  the owner literally had a sign posted in huge letters “will not setup floyd rose guitars”
> 
> I truly think it’s one of the biggest misconceptions that floyds are just these aneurysm inducing torture devices


Intonation is kind of a pain, is the only real problem I have with them - otherwise they're definitely worth the additional small work.
Has anyone used the intonation tool Red Bishop sells?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 8, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> I am in the love em camp. What is the best intonation key available for them right now?



It dedepends on your needs. The Red Bishop "Accu-Locator" is great because it's very adjustable, so you can use it on multiple variants of double locking trems, not all, but not bad for ~$50. 

The Ibanez "E-Jack" is priced similarly, and is nearly as flexible. 

That said, the old "Key" is still like $15, so if you only have a single type of Floyd, it's hard to beat.


----------



## Kawaii Besu (Aug 8, 2022)

1991 Ibanez RG560 with a gnarly looking OG Edge.




Lmao, that one piece of paint chipping off.

But hey, if it works, it works.


----------



## JW Shreds (Aug 10, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Intonation is kind of a pain, is the only real problem I have with them - otherwise they're definitely worth the additional small work.
> Has anyone used the intonation tool Red Bishop sells?


100% agree, that shit is so time consuming lol Also, having to relieve tension every time you want to adjust the action to avoid damaging the knife edges.....not sure if there is any truth to that or not. Tbh, i just keep the bar dived and then adjust the posts, haven't noticed any wear on my floyd from that method so far


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## trem licking (Aug 10, 2022)

JW Shreds said:


> 100% agree, that shit is so time consuming lol Also, having to relieve tension every time you want to adjust the action to avoid damaging the knife edges.....not sure if there is any truth to that or not. Tbh, i just keep the bar dived and then adjust the posts, haven't noticed any wear on my floyd from that method so far


bar dive and adjust is the same tension as leaving it as is... might as well not even bother. turning posts at full tension does no harm, and the factory/store you bought it from did exactly that


----------



## odibrom (Aug 10, 2022)

JW Shreds said:


> 100% agree, that shit is so time consuming lol Also, having to relieve tension every time you want to adjust the action to avoid damaging the knife edges.....not sure if there is any truth to that or not. Tbh, i just keep the bar dived and then adjust the posts, haven't noticed any wear on my floyd from that method so far



You're actually only relieving the string's tension, not the trem's/knife edges'... I've been adjusting the action at the bridge without that workout for 20+ years without any problem whatsoever...

... and I've been ninja'ed by @trem licking ...


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## JW Shreds (Aug 10, 2022)

trem licking said:


> bar dive and adjust is the same tension as leaving it as is... might as well not even bother. turning posts at full tension does no harm, and the factory/store you bought it from did exactly that





odibrom said:


> You're actually only relieving the string's tension, not the trem's/knife edges'... I've been adjusting the action at the bridge without that workout for 20+ years without any problem whatsoever...
> 
> ... and I've been ninja'ed by @trem licking ...


Oh nice! Good to know that i wont have to worry about that anymore, thanks for the input dudes


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## Crash Dandicoot (Aug 10, 2022)

As @trem licking and @odibrom stated, adjusting post height while up to tension is negligible with regards to wear on the pivot points - that idea persists due to the abundance of old licensed copies not using quality metals/hardened steel for their studs/knife edges and they _would_ in fact get eaten up due to full-tension action adjustments over time. If you've got an OFR or Gotoh equivalent-level of build quality trem, no worries.

Having said all that, I 100% stand by Tom Anderson's idea of using dry teflon bike chain lubricant for any pivot points. Chapstick is alright but this stuff is inexpensive, does a 10x better job and doesn't hold debris/dust/ or gunk up your hardware.

...and again, somebody has to clarify why intonation adjustment is a pain. Even if you don't have the right tool (you should), decking the bridge and slacking the relevant string to adjust has never seemed overly cumbersome to me.


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## Marked Man (Aug 13, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Floyds are supreme because starting a hip hop set with a load of THX intro divebombs has the crowd looking at you like you came from space, and the spring cavity is the perfect place to stash weed when playing festivals



Can't do that with a Kahler!


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## TornAnus (Aug 16, 2022)

Kahler users: Bro, you dont have to clip the ball ends of the strings!
Also Kahler users: Solder the ball ends for better tuning stability.


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## BrutalRob (Aug 17, 2022)

leaving the tension on the strings/springs while adjusting height will damage the knife edges as you will apply a shearing force in addition to the usual tensile force. Though it will take a few adjustments to notice the damage. Also, lighter strings will have of course less tension so this also helps to prevent this.


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## trem licking (Aug 17, 2022)

BrutalRob said:


> leaving the tension on the strings/springs while adjusting height will damage the knife edges as you will apply a shearing force in addition to the usual tensile force. Though it will take a few adjustments to notice the damage. Also, lighter strings will have of course less tension so this also helps to prevent this.


Nope


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## eaeolian (Aug 17, 2022)

trem licking said:


> bar dive and adjust is the same tension as leaving it as is... might as well not even bother. turning posts at full tension does no harm, and the factory/store you bought it from did exactly that


I've always wondered about your name. It's a strange fetish. 

Agree with both points.


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## BrutalRob (Aug 17, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Nope


and why would that be?


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## eaeolian (Aug 17, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Nope


Well, I mean, theoretically it *could*, but in practical application it doesn't make any difference. I have OFRs with 30 year old posts and knife edges with no issues, because you just don't move them that much. 100% of my OFR tuning issues over the years have been, in order:
1.) Fine tuner tension plates wearing out
2.) Top mount Floyd nuts moving
3.) Saddles seizing


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## BrutalRob (Aug 17, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Well, I mean, theoretically it *could*, but in practical application it doesn't make any difference. I have OFRs with 30 year old posts and knife edges with no issues, because you just don't move them that much. 100% of my OFR tuning issues over the years have been, in order:
> 1.) Fine tuner tension plates wearing out
> 2.) Top mount Floyd nuts moving
> 3.) Saddles seizing


Well that´s what i said, it takes a couple of times till one realizes the damage. when you don´t move them much, you should be fine. i did in my beginners days and i ruined knife edges this way.


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## TornAnus (Aug 17, 2022)

I have a question: I bought a brand new OFR for a build. Is there a diagram of where the saddle blocks should be, general area before I fine tune the intonation? It came out of the box with all of the saddles in the same spot.


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## trem licking (Aug 17, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> I've always wondered about your name. It's a strange fetish.
> 
> Agree with both points.


It's just like trem picking, but with my tongue. Hummingbird like tongue maneuvers. Just thot it was a funny name


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## trem licking (Aug 17, 2022)

BrutalRob said:


> and why would that be?


Because metal on metal friction is the same whether its rolling on the posts or sliding sideways. Too many examples of people not wasting time slacking strings and their trems are just fine. If you want to do it to make yourself feel better, that's fine... But the fact is you don't need to


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## BrutalRob (Aug 17, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Because metal on metal friction is the same whether its rolling on the posts or sliding sideways.


it is not. Pressure and shear are two different things. But i won´t argue on this as i think we would be going in circles endlessly. You do you bro, or how do you guys say?


trem licking said:


> Too many examples of people not wasting time slacking strings and their trems are just fine. If you want to do it to make yourself feel better, that's fine... But the fact is you don't need to


again, matter of how often you do this. But yeah, makes me feel a hell lot a better after fucking up knife edges this way in the past.


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## trem licking (Aug 17, 2022)

BrutalRob said:


> it is not. Pressure and shear are two different things. But i won´t argue on this as i think we would be going in circles endlessly. You do you bro, or how do you guys say?
> 
> again, matter of how often you do this. But yeah, makes me feel a hell lot a better after fucking up knife edges this way in the past.


The paint chipping on knife edges from normal use says differently. Also, paint chipping on a trem is not knife wear. People are overly cautious/scared of their guitar these days, so inaccurate comments like this need to be addressed... Not to mention it is a colossal waste of time


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## BrutalRob (Aug 17, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Also, paint chipping on a trem is not knife wear


You don't say? Guess what, i can tell paint chipping from knife wear believe it or not. Paint chip does not cause runing instabilites when using the trem.
But curious were you red anything about paint chip in my comments.
But whatever. To each their own.


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## BrutalRob (Aug 18, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Well, I mean, theoretically it *could*, but in practical application it doesn't make any difference. I have OFRs with 30 year old posts and knife edges with no issues, because you just don't move them that much. 100% of my OFR tuning issues over the years have been, in order:
> 1.) Fine tuner tension plates wearing out
> 2.) Top mount Floyd nuts moving
> 3.) Saddles seizing


What does saddle seizing mean?


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## eaeolian (Aug 18, 2022)

BrutalRob said:


> What does saddle seizing mean?


The pins in the saddles (where the hinge is for the fine tuners) either get gunked up or corrode and "stick" in position. This usually doesn't happen with the steel OFR saddles, but I have had issues with it on Schallers and the old Gotohs where the saddles are Zinc alloys.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Aug 18, 2022)

There was an interview/article in Dan Erlewine's "How to make your Electric Guitar Play Great" where Dan discusses tremolo stud adjustment under tension and as we stated earlier in the thread, it'd have to be a cheap (pot metal) tremolo or at least cheap studs/edges to actually cause significant damage - quality steel lasts. He was talking to a senior Ibanez personnel IIRC and they confirmed they adjust all of them under tension. No knife edge damage in any consistency.

Can't imagine how you could do that to an OFR or Gotoh/Edge.


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## odibrom (Aug 18, 2022)

... I imagine that's what store guys say to rookies when they get their 1st floyd rose loaded guitars under 500$/€...


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## CanserDYI (Aug 18, 2022)

You'd think for this being a Floyd rose love thread we'd be hearing from all those Tone Stone lovers.

Nah they're probably too busy playing their guitars.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 18, 2022)

Just adjusted the action on my FR under FULLLLLLLLLL TENSION, BABY.


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## TornAnus (Aug 25, 2022)

So what is that pad material that some guitars have glued to the body in the floyd rose route? I need to get some of it.


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## odibrom (Aug 25, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> So what is that pad material that some guitars have glued to the body in the floyd rose route? I need to get some of it.


Probably some high density thin ruber/foam...


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## jco5055 (Aug 25, 2022)

Has anyone used the FU-tone light tension springs? I’ve mentioned a few times that I like the feel of kahlers more since they are very smooth/light tension, so I bought these springs to see how light a Floyd can get.

Only problem is my only Floyd guitar is a 7 string, and considering at guitar center I played a few 6 string floyds and they were softer than my 7 string with the springs it seems like I will not be able to tell without putting them on a 6.


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## bigcupholder (Aug 25, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Has anyone used the FU-tone light tension springs? I’ve mentioned a few times that I like the feel of kahlers more since they are very smooth/light tension, so I bought these springs to see how light a Floyd can get.
> 
> Only problem is my only Floyd guitar is a 7 string, and considering at guitar center I played a few 6 string floyds and they were softer than my 7 string with the springs it seems like I will not be able to tell without putting them on a 6.


You'd likely need 5 and still have the claw screwed in all the way. Depending on the string gauge you're using, that still might not even be enough tension to balance the strings.

I have 3 of their black (medium tension) springs on a 6 string tuned to D standard with 9-46 strings, so very light string tension, and the claw is still screwed in almost all the way.


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## jco5055 (Aug 25, 2022)

bigcupholder said:


> You'd likely need 5 and still have the claw screwed in all the way. Depending on the string gauge you're using, that still might not even be enough tension to balance the strings.
> 
> I have 3 of their black (medium tension) springs on a 6 string tuned to D standard with 9-46 strings, so very light string tension, and the claw is still screwed in almost all the way.


thanks! So I guess my question is, if there always needs to be a balance with tension of the springs vs strings, assuming a person uses regular gauges of strings and standard tuning (like myself) are different tension springs basically non-applicable? The feel will be 90% or more just because of how many springs one needs to use and/or how much the claw needs screwed in?


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## jco5055 (Sep 7, 2022)

mini bump to just mention that Guitar Center Manhattan, besides being a horrible stereotype of shitty players BLASTING amps, has a used Ibanez with the Edge ZR tremolo. 

I actually really liked it! Very smooth like a Kahler (not quite as smooth I'd say) but has the double locking advantage. It's too bad ball/needle bearing FR types don't really exist in terms of new models, other than Vigier but Patrice is retiring so that leaves no one else.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 7, 2022)

@jco5055 




Look at those glorious posts. Combine those with a Lo-Pro and Sophia's dual stabilizer/global tuner block and you'd have a titan of a trem. I'd love to get my hands on one of those bridges and retrofit, though IIRC Vigier doesn't sell them independent of a whole instrument.


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## jco5055 (Sep 7, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @jco5055
> 
> View attachment 113824
> 
> ...


I actually emailed Schaller to get 100% clarity about that haha, and if anything they just confirmed Vigier shutting down as their response was something like "we don't even manufacture this anymore"...I also talked to Geoffrey McCabe aka Mr Sophia tremolo himself, since apparently the ZR ball bearings are part of a patent of his, and he said that he/his company is "so satisfied by the current Sophia models performance with going as low as two spring setup" etc that they see no need to implement bearings for extra smoothness.

I've briefly played a few Sophia tremolos and from what I recall I wouldn't say they are on that Kahler or other non-knife edge levels of smoothness....


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## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 7, 2022)

Geoffrey is an interesting dude. I've spoken to him a few times when we encountered a very unique issue with my 2:92. Knows his stuff, for sure.

I would agree that it isn't ball bearing smooth, though they certainly have a nice feel to them.


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## jco5055 (Sep 7, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Geoffrey is an interesting dude. I've spoken to him a few times when we encountered a very unique issue with my 2:92. Knows his stuff, for sure.
> 
> I would agree that it isn't ball bearing smooth, though they certainly have a nice feel to them.



Yeah, for better or for worse it seems impossible to get a short, yes/no answer from him lol, he'll dive into the techy stuff and sometimes my eyes start to glaze over a bit


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## eaeolian (Sep 7, 2022)

bigcupholder said:


> You'd likely need 5 and still have the claw screwed in all the way. Depending on the string gauge you're using, that still might not even be enough tension to balance the strings.
> 
> I have 3 of their black (medium tension) springs on a 6 string tuned to D standard with 9-46 strings, so very light string tension, and the claw is still screwed in almost all the way.


I use two of the "Black" (regular tension) Floyd springs with the claw screwed in fairly far. It's a compromise on a 7 because it will NEVER feel like a six.


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## eaeolian (Sep 7, 2022)

In order to do the ZR ball bearings right it would probably be prohibitively expensive.


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## Isaiah04 (Sep 8, 2022)

I used to own a beautiful Ibanez Premium with an Original Edge tremolo, one of the best playing and sounding guitars I've owned, but returned it due to reasons I forgot. I now own an LTD H3-1000FR and while it's not the same tremolo, I've really come to love the floyd on it, even tho I installed a Tremol-no on it


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## jco5055 (Sep 8, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @jco5055
> 
> View attachment 113824
> 
> ...


I think in terms of "what actually exists" currently, maybe the best would be Hantug w/the stabilizer pro...though I like the infinite tuners on the sophia bridge also.


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## AMOS (Sep 8, 2022)

I love em! Have 4 in my collection


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## bigcupholder (Sep 8, 2022)

I've set up my JS1000 (original edge) to be dive only by installing a trem stopper.

While Floyd defenders will say that a properly setup dual locking system is more stable for tuning than any hardtail, it definitely isn't the case. With light strings I found that since the string tension (and hence the spring tension) was light, it was easily knocked out of balance by the weight of the bridge when tilting the guitar slightly forward or back. So if I moved around at all, my bridge would move. Hardtails don't do that.

I also hated not being able to do bends normally, so I set the spring tension a little higher than needed to keep it against the trem stopper when bending.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 8, 2022)

@bigcupholder The physics at play with a double-locking tremolo can't be overcome and are well documented - it's less of a 'Floyd defender' stance and more of a 'physics acknowledge-r' one. 

There is some inherent limitations regarding spring/string tension pairings (going for an extremely light setup and expecting the ability to do double-stops being a principle example) though your anecdote sounds like either an improperly set up unit or issues with zero-point return-abilty, such as worn knife edges/studs. Tough to say without seeing it, though to be honest it sounds like a full-floating trem simply isn't your preference.


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## vilk (Sep 9, 2022)

I recently picked up an old RG1527 with the Edge Pro bridge. Damn if it isn't comfortable to put your hand on, probably the best of any FR I've tried personally (which isn't terribly many, but still).

I'm not settled on what tuning I'm gonna use it for just yet, so I blocked it and took the nut locks off, which tbh is the first time I've ever done that to a guitar and left it that way indefinitely, and I gotta say, feeling-wise, it kicks the ass of any hardtail bridge I've played. And I can fuck with tunings to my hearts content.

I mean it's such an obvious thing. But even when I had an RG2228A with the FX Edge 3, I never tried leaving the nut locks off. I'm not really sure why.

Really, it's not such a hassle to unlock a nut with a hex wrench. I keep it handy in my guitar area... But it's just so freeing to be able to go to town on the tuners on a whim without having to grab the hex, and still have the fine tuners to slowly and steadily that tuning needle perfectly into pitch.


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## trem licking (Sep 9, 2022)

Yeah even without locking pads tightened, there is no friction at the nut at all so it still stays in tune better than a conventional nut. Could just use locking tuners with the pads off probably just as successfully


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## TornAnus (Sep 13, 2022)

I have a couple of questions to any of you guys with experience setting up floyd rose guitars. I have a guitar with a 12" fingerboard radius, 25.5" scale and it is using the floyd rose 1984 which is original with fat brass block and brass fine tuners. 

1. Do I need to remove the shims that are under some of the string blocks on the floyd to match the fingerboard radius?

2. Will a string tree help with tuning stability? I have one but it is not yet installed on the head stock. I dont think there is enough angle on the head stock without it.


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## bostjan (Sep 13, 2022)

1. Generally yes, but you will want to check the radius of the saddles with a gauge block to make sure.
2. Do you have a locking nut? If so, it should not matter for tuning stability. The string tree might make it more or less of a pain to change strings. If you do not have a locking nut, I would recommend getting one. If you have decided against, then really anything that adds friction against the tensioned (and not isolated) part of the string is going to add more instability. If the string tree adds friction, it's generally not a good idea. If the strings are popping out of the nut due to poor angles, it might be just necessary to play the guitar. But without seeing it, it's hard to say whether you need a string tree or not.

Hope that helps. From your screen name, it sounds like you've got bigger problems than tuning stability, though.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Sep 13, 2022)

I don’t even install the springs until the entire instrument has had all of the other treatments first. I block the sustain block under string tension in the final position and do all the set-up as though it were a hard tail, ie; truss rod, string height, intonation, and final stretching. 

Once all of that is done, I install the springs with the claw positioned nearly at slack, then I tighten the claw evenly across until the block just falls out, then a final adjustment to the claw to ensure that the entire instrument is in tune from the inside strings outward, D, G, A, B, low E, High E. And I rarely have to make any adjustments after that. 

If using a Floyd Key for intonation, I start with the saddle furthest from the neck, that way, I am only ever loosening “ The Key” as it doesn’t like being tightened. Makes my Floyd setups take so much less time with far better accuracy.


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## eaeolian (Sep 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I think in terms of "what actually exists" currently, maybe the best would be Hantug w/the stabilizer pro...though I like the infinite tuners on the sophia bridge also.


Maybe "most expensive". I have yet to see any evidence that titanium makes any difference in real-world longevity over a hardened steel OFR.


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## jco5055 (Sep 13, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Maybe "most expensive". I have yet to see any evidence that titanium makes any difference in real-world longevity over a hardened steel OFR.


not sure if it's better per se, but I've talked to a few boutique builders who have used every variety of tremolo under the sun, and just from a quality of components standpoint, they've told me it's Hantug without question


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> not sure if it's better per se, but I've talked to a few boutique builders who have used every variety of tremolo under the sun, and just from a quality of components standpoint, they've told me it's Hantug without question



Eh, the machining is top notch, they feel really high end and special, but that's about it. 

I can see why boutique builders who are selling an "experience" in a sort of "nothing but the best" or "spared no expense" sort of thing would gravitate towards them. 

But it's not like they're going to perform, or even last, any longer than a $180 FRT1000 or 1996T. 

If anything, titanium is usually a little softer than steel, which is why you don't really see high wear parts made of the stuff unless temperature, weight, or corrosion resistance is more important than strength.


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## bostjan (Sep 13, 2022)

Technically correct, that pure titanium is about the same hardness as 304 stainless (which is a fairly soft stainless). But nobody makes anything out of pure titanium, and the alloys of titanium can range in softness from the same as steel to incredibly hard.

The Hantug titanium trems are made of Ti-6Al-4V alloy, which is incredibly hard material. There are lots of ways to measure hardness, but, for example, 304 stainless has a Vickers hardness of 129, whereas Ti-6Al-4V is 349.

Whether it's worth the extra $1000 or so to have a titanium alloy knife edge grinding against a titanium alloy post versus a steel knife edge against a steel post, that's an argument with which I wouldn't want to get involved. But from the standpoint of which material is harder, it's no contest.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 13, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, the machining is top notch, they feel really high end and special, but that's about it.
> 
> I can see why boutique builders who are selling an "experience" in a sort of "nothing but the best" or "spared no expense" sort of thing would gravitate towards them.
> 
> ...


but

but

brandon ellis uses them so if I spend a bunch of money on one it will be a valid substitution for practice right?

right?


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## TornAnus (Sep 13, 2022)

bostjan said:


> 1. Generally yes, but you will want to check the radius of the saddles with a gauge block to make sure.
> 2. Do you have a locking nut? If so, it should not matter for tuning stability. The string tree might make it more or less of a pain to change strings. If you do not have a locking nut, I would recommend getting one. If you have decided against, then really anything that adds friction against the tensioned (and not isolated) part of the string is going to add more instability. If the string tree adds friction, it's generally not a good idea. If the strings are popping out of the nut due to poor angles, it might be just necessary to play the guitar. But without seeing it, it's hard to say whether you need a string tree or not.
> 
> Hope that helps. From your screen name, it sounds like you've got bigger problems than tuning stability, though.


Yeah it is a poor string angle and the strings arent flat against the nut until i clamp it down which makes tuning the instrument harder since clamping down throws them all sharp.


as for the screen name, i figured it would be a funny name for a grindcore band or something. I am perfectly healthy in that region.


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## tedtan (Sep 13, 2022)

^ A string tree will help with that.


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## jco5055 (Sep 13, 2022)

in regards to Hantug- I could imagine a scenario where I splurge the $450 or so to get the steel version, but no way would I spend $900 or whatever for Titanium.


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## kerryymm (Sep 13, 2022)

Only have 1 out of 4 with a Floyd. Stays in tune better than all my others; I gigged for years with nothing but hardtails but these days I wouldn't be without a Floyd. Always fit a push-in arm, I think they feel much better.


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 13, 2022)

Random memory,,,, I once brought an MIJ RG to a shop for an initial setup. I did not know anything about doing this,, so kind of like now but anyway. The guy is an old hand with decades of boomer pro luthier experience... he looks at my new RG and tells me how it's just built wrong. Nut isn't correct and some other shit. My take is he hated either Japanese guitars or Floyd's and I just left with my guitar, confused.


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## TornAnus (Sep 14, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Random memory,,,, I once brought an MIJ RG to a shop for an initial setup. I did not know anything about doing this,, so kind of like now but anyway. The guy is an old hand with decades of boomer pro luthier experience... he looks at my new RG and tells me how it's just built wrong. Nut isn't correct and some other shit. My take is he hated either Japanese guitars or Floyd's and I just left with my guitar, confused.


I had an old luthier guy tell me that nobody uses floyd rose anymore and all guitars should be tuned to E standard. He loathed when someone would request ANY other tuning. Needless to say I used him to set up a guitar for me once and never again.


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## eaeolian (Sep 14, 2022)

These experiences are why I do my own setups. 

As someone who owns decades-old Floyd Roses, titanium is overkill. I'm sure Hantung's machining is top notch, but, really, so is CSL's, and at least the Sophia adds something different. But, hey, we have options - and I don't even think the ABM Katana has come up yet!


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## jco5055 (Sep 14, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> These experiences are why I do my own setups.
> 
> As someone who owns decades-old Floyd Roses, titanium is overkill. I'm sure Hantung's machining is top notch, but, really, so is CSL's, and at least the Sophia adds something different. But, hey, we have options - and I don't even think the ABM Katana has come up yet!


Do you have an opinion on the Katana? It seems like it's been out of stock forever so I never played it, but I do know they are coming out with 7 string and low profile versions in like late 2022/early 2023.


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## eaeolian (Sep 14, 2022)

The other Division guitarist (@Matt Crooks ) bought one, and it looks cool. If the guy would ever finish the guitar it's supposed to go on, I'd have more of an opinion to work with!


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## TornAnus (Sep 23, 2022)

I just ordered one of those red bishop intonation tools. The Key broke the first time i tried using it and the thumb screw was really difficult to turn on it.


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## TornAnus (Sep 24, 2022)

I cannot intonate this for the life of me and its getting me pissed off. Instructions say if your 12th fret note is sharp to move the saddle further away from the the nut. I do this and it gets even sharper or no change at all.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> I cannot intonate this for the life of me and its getting me pissed off. Instructions say if your 12th fret note is sharp to move the saddle further away from the the nut. I do this and it gets even sharper or no change at all.


The note is getting sharper, or sharper compared to the harmonic?

If the string just won't intonate, consider trying a new string. Sometimes a string will just be bad. It shouldn't, if it's new, but it might be.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> These experiences are why I do my own setups.
> 
> As someone who owns decades-old Floyd Roses, titanium is overkill. I'm sure Hantung's machining is top notch, but, really, so is CSL's, and at least the Sophia adds something different. But, hey, we have options - and I don't even think the ABM Katana has come up yet!


Yeah, it's shocking how many "techs" don't even know you can/should shim FR saddles. That's also why I started doing my own setups.


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## TornAnus (Sep 24, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> The note is getting sharper, or sharper compared to the harmonic?
> 
> If the string just won't intonate, consider trying a new string. Sometimes a string will just be bad. It shouldn't, if it's new, but it might be.


12th fret is getting sharper compared to the open note. This is how I'm interpreting the broken English instructions.

Edit: open string tuned to c#, harmonic is in tune, 12th fretted note way sharp


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## CapinCripes (Sep 24, 2022)

People really like to overreact about German Floyd's vs 1000 or 1500 but Ive had plenty of both and they are almost indistinguishable in use. The only Floyd variant I've ever had catastrophically fail on me was a Schaller that was almost 30 years old.


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## odibrom (Sep 24, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> 12th fret is getting sharper compared to the open note. This is how I'm interpreting the broken English instructions.
> 
> Edit: open string tuned to c#, harmonic is in tune, 12th fretted note way sharp


You have to move the saddle away from the nut. In order to do so, please detuned the string instead about 2 full steps (semi tones) and then move te saddle a bit towards the guitar bottom. Retune the string to the desired pitch and re-check the 12th fret...

Moving the saddle in full tension is harder and slower...


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## TornAnus (Sep 24, 2022)

Is there a recommended starting point for the saddles? I am trying to tune to C# with d'addario nyxl 10-52 strings on this 25.5" scale guitar. I got it pretty close but the saddles seem all out of whack now. I may have to move he saddle screws to the different holes.


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## odibrom (Sep 24, 2022)

The screws should be where they fit best. I think there are 2 positions to accommodate different saddle positions...


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## Captain Shoggoth (Sep 24, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> Is there a recommended starting point for the saddles? I am trying to tune to C# with d'addario nyxl 10-52 strings on this 25.5" scale guitar. I got it pretty close but the saddles seem all out of whack now. I may have to move he saddle screws to the different holes.
> View attachment 114888


Saddles look fine to me, I wouldnt change the saddle positioning although as you said I'd run D, B & high E strings with the saddle screw in the other position, closer to the bridge. You're downtuned a reasonable amount so makes sense that the saddles are farther toward the bridge than it came stock

Also, please post a full body shot of that thing! Looks awesome


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## TornAnus (Sep 24, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Saddles look fine to me, I wouldnt change the saddle positioning although as you said I'd run D, B & high E strings with the saddle screw in the other position, closer to the bridge. You're downtuned a reasonable amount so makes sense that the saddles are farther toward the bridge than it came stock
> 
> Also, please post a full body shot of that thing! Looks awesome


I had a luthier out of New Mexico build this for me. He did everything except assembly, wiring, hardware and setup. I bought a Floyd 1984 because it was what was available at the time. I like it except for the screw in arm, if it gets in too tight its a real bitch to get out.


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## mphsc (Sep 24, 2022)




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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 24, 2022)

is that a lower-pro? So-low?


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## Captain Shoggoth (Sep 24, 2022)

TornAnus said:


> I had a luthier out of New Mexico build this for me. He did everything except assembly, wiring, hardware and setup. I bought a Floyd 1984 because it was what was available at the time. I like it except for the screw in arm, if it gets in too tight its a real bitch to get out.



85 and the brass fine tuners are an awesome combo. I'd go with the modern Floyd push-in arm as a replacement. The Red Bishop Magik Arm also feels great but the mechanism is overengineered to the point of super-fragility.


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## TornAnus (Sep 24, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> 85 and the brass fine tuners are an awesome combo. I'd go with the modern Floyd push-in arm as a replacement. The Red Bishop Magik Arm also feels great but the mechanism is overengineered to the point of super-fragility.


Thanks for noticing that brass and gold coordination haha. Yeah I'm definitely putting the push in arm on this guitar.


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## jco5055 (Sep 25, 2022)

Here’s maybe a basic question: I’m aware that a FR should have a flatter radius than the actual radius of the fretboard, like how a 12-16” guiter should have a bridge that measures closer to like 20”. So when a Floyd rose has a radius pre-set at 12”, I know Sophia is 14, etc…is the bridge actually 12/14 etc, or is it at “the bridge radius needed for a fretboard radius of 12/14 etc”?


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## trem licking (Sep 25, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> 85 and the brass fine tuners are an awesome combo. I'd go with the modern Floyd push-in arm as a replacement. The Red Bishop Magik Arm also feels great but the mechanism is overengineered to the point of super-fragility.


+1 on the red bishop. I also recommend replacing the standard arm with a "mighty mite" floyd arm and keeping the stock collar (mighty mite arm has a thick plastic collar that works much better at staying screwed on tight than the traditional bar/metal washer mechanism, the bar is quite inexpensive as well). I had a floyd branded push in arm for a short while and the delrin cracked and split and it loosened quite a bit with each use


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## Omzig (Sep 25, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Here’s maybe a basic question: I’m aware that a FR should have a flatter radius than the actual radius of the fretboard, like how a 12-16” guiter should have a bridge that measures closer to like 20”. So when a Floyd rose has a radius pre-set at 12”, I know Sophia is 14, etc…is the bridge actually 12/14 etc, or is it at “the bridge radius needed for a fretboard radius of 12/14 etc”?


You need to shim the outer saddles to help closer match the FB radius, if you don't you'll end up with 1 of the following..... if you have good action buzz free inner string but the outer strings will choke/buzz......or outer strings will have good action but inner (a,d,g,b strings) will have a higher than wanted action.

i think the only factory Pre-shimmed Floyd equiped guitar i evet bought was/is a squire Showmaster with a Ping unit (just being refinished in Neo Pink) crazy that we still see almost £1k guitars aren't correctly shimmed.....


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## jco5055 (Sep 25, 2022)

Omzig said:


> You need to shim the outer saddles to help closer match the FB radius, if you don't you'll end up with 1 of the following..... if you have good action buzz free inner string but the outer strings will choke/buzz......or outer strings will have good action but inner (a,d,g,b strings) will have a higher than wanted action.
> 
> i think the only factory Pre-shimmed Floyd equiped guitar i evet bought was/is a squire Showmaster with a Ping unit (just being refinished in Neo Pink) crazy that we still see almost £1k guitars aren't correctly shimmed.....


So then since I know an OFR comes pre-shimmed at 12”, is that for a 10” radius (which makes sense considering the locking nut is 10”), or is it for a 12”? Sorry I get the explanation you gave I just don’t know how that applies to the “default” shimmed settings


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## 73647k (Sep 25, 2022)

odibrom said:


> Moving the saddle in full tension is harder and slower...



Fantastic way to strip hardware too


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## odibrom (Sep 25, 2022)

73647k said:


> Fantastic way to strip hardware too


I was speaking about the strings' full tension, not the locking screws...


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## 73647k (Sep 25, 2022)

odibrom said:


> I was speaking about the strings' full tension, not the locking screws...


I know


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## MFB (Sep 25, 2022)

Curious for anyone who's got an older Jackson with the JT580, how they are? It seems like they're hit or miss, which is to be expected with a licensed tremolo, just not sure if it would be worth expecting to immediately swap it out for an OFR/Gotoh or if it's worth doing through a setup first?


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## 73647k (Sep 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> Curious for anyone who's got an older Jackson with the JT580, how they are? It seems like they're hit or miss, which is to be expected with a licensed tremolo, just not sure if it would be worth expecting to immediately swap it out for an OFR/Gotoh or if it's worth doing through a setup first?


They’re fine, been playing on an old ‘90’s Kelly Professional with one and it holds up well. I prefer the 590 for some reason


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## MFB (Sep 25, 2022)

73647k said:


> They’re fine, been playing on an old ‘90’s Kelly Professional with one and it holds up well. I prefer the 590 for some reason



Did some reading up on it, sounds like the 590 is a Schaller made tremolo just stamped with the Jackson logo on it so I imagine that's why it feels better than the 580, even if the other holds up well enough.


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## eaeolian (Sep 26, 2022)

73647k said:


> They’re fine, been playing on an old ‘90’s Kelly Professional with one and it holds up well. I prefer the 590 for some reason


Because the 590 is a Schaller? The Takeguchi (JT-580LP) isn't terrible if the studs are set right, but not in the same league as the JT-590.


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## MFB (Sep 26, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Because the 590 is a Schaller? The Takeguchi (JT-580LP) isn't terrible if the studs are set right, but not in the same league as the JT-590.



Was the 590 on specific models to look out for, or was it line specific for certain years? 

If I can find a model with one I'd like to save myself the trouble, but if it's a crapshoot then I'll take what I can get.


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## Naxxpipe (Sep 26, 2022)

How would one go about to identify the Jackson trems? I have a 2001 King V with a Jackson stamped floyd, and would like to know what it is. 
I have no pic at hand right now, but may snap one later.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 26, 2022)

Naxxpipe said:


> How would one go about to identify the Jackson trems? I have a 2001 King V with a Jackson stamped floyd, and would like to know what it is.
> I have no pic at hand right now, but may snap one later.



Just Google it. It should be fairly apparent which is which. The baseplates are different shapes.


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## eaeolian (Sep 26, 2022)

MFB said:


> Was the 590 on specific models to look out for, or was it line specific for certain years?
> 
> If I can find a model with one I'd like to save myself the trouble, but if it's a crapshoot then I'll take what I can get.


The 590 was on the Professional "Pro" models (the ones with Ebony boards) from 1991-1994. They're on the "XL" models from 1991-1993, and those switch to 580LPs after that. They're on pretty much everything from Japan ("toothpaste" Charvels included) from 1989-1991, except the *really* low-end models that only have the single-locking Schaller and the Charvettes that were made in Japan, which have a totally crap locking trem that looks like it cost about $5. 

The catalog archive is also quite helpful.


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## eaeolian (Sep 26, 2022)

Naxxpipe said:


> How would one go about to identify the Jackson trems? I have a 2001 King V with a Jackson stamped floyd, and would like to know what it is.
> I have no pic at hand right now, but may snap one later.


If it's a Pro, it's a 580LP/Takeguchi. Other lines vary.


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