# Bands who's earlier albums are better then their current stuff?



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2016)

like the title says, name some bands who's early releases are better then their current album(s). then tell us why...


list what you think are the better better ones vs. the ones you dont care for.


an obvious one is metallica: killem all, ride, puppets & the 1st garage days revisited are my faves

justice is pretty good and im sure black is a lot more popular with people, but that is when for me, their sound really started to change. st. anger is by far the worst one imho.

i own all their material and like a song or two on some of the other albums, but i dont listen to them on a regular basis.



edit: if you think the opposite, then by all means state your option


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## jeremyb (Jul 29, 2016)

Agree on metallica, to me they're two different bands, black album onwards is entirely a different band, and it only got worse as James tried harder to sing all country and western on stuff....


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## Santuzzo (Jul 29, 2016)

I read the thread title, and Metallica immediately came to my mind, then - not surprisingly - I see you also mentioned them in your OP.

To me the first three Metallica albums is all I ever need from them, epic albums, milestones in metal 

Another artist that I like their early work much better than the later and current stuff is Satriani, when I listen to Not Of This Earth or Surfing With The Alien, to me that stuff is progressive instrumental rock and has more depth and is way more interesting than his later albums. I still like his newer stuff, but his older albums (I would say up to Flying In A Blue Dream and maybe The Extremist) I personally find much more interesting to listen to.


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## ChrisRushing (Jul 29, 2016)

In Flames....I like everything up through Clayman and then it gets real messy. They still have some tracks that I like on the later releases but as a whole it's just not very good to me.


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## DLG (Jul 29, 2016)

pretty much every band ever


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2016)

DLG said:


> pretty much every band ever



right?!?



a few reasons i credit to this happening...

1. when a band first starts, they usually have refined and honed their first songs because they have prob played them for years before putting them out.

2. they are hungrier to begin with / later on they seem to over-think or over-do things to try to stay "current"

3. sometimes important members leave/pass away & the bands sound changes


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 29, 2016)

In flames, children of Bodom, sonata arctica, arch enemy

It's depressing when you think how good these bands used to be.


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## dan0151 (Jul 29, 2016)

John Butler Trio


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## QuantumCybin (Jul 29, 2016)

Rush. I love all of their stuff, don't get me wrong. It's all good. But man, Fly By Night through Signals is flawless to me. They kinda got weird in the mid to late 80's but went back to harder stuff in the 90's, but Clockwork Angels has been their strongest release in a LONG time.


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## Cougs (Jul 29, 2016)

Trivium, Shogun the best IMO


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## Xcaliber (Jul 29, 2016)

KoRn. I'm optimistic about the new album based on the first single though, I'm really digging it. Sounds a bit like the old stuff IMO.


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## larry (Jul 29, 2016)

STAIND comes to mind.

'dysfunction' was quite heavy/brooding for it's time.. still gets me right in the feels sometimes. 'break the cycle' went somewhere new but retained much of what 'did it' for me, then 14 shades foreshadowed a much 'lighter' direction. After that,  .

If i could afford it; i'd buy the rights to dysfunction and tour it.


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## AliceLG (Jul 29, 2016)

All of them 

Except Meshuggah ... yeah, I said it, I like Meshuggah's post-Nothing stuff better, come at me


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 29, 2016)

Mastodon


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## Ulvhedin (Jul 29, 2016)

Everyone, according to someone. 

For me, Nevermore, Maiden, Satanic Warmaster, and of course Madonna.


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## protest (Jul 29, 2016)

Opeth, but I give them (and other similar bands) a bit of a pass because their sound changed like 20 years into their career.

For me the killer is bands that seem like they're going to be awesome and then just aren't, or change their sound completely. Shadows Fall comes to mind, All that Remains too. Incubus for a non metal band, S.C.I.E.N.C.E. was cool as .....

One band that I think is the opposite of this is Dillinger. CI was crazy and different and will always stick out because of that, but Option Paralysis is a better album.


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## bostjan (Jul 29, 2016)

Dream Theater hit their stride with SfaM, IMO, and although their new stuff is good, it doesn't speak to me on the same level as everything up to Octavarium.

Pretty much every band hits a peak, though. Metallica being, perhaps, the prime example. I didn't completely get into them until ...aJfA, prime time to get into them, as they were still really good, and had a strong back catalogue.

Avenged Sevenfold might be another good example. Or Arch Enemy.

One counter example: Death. Death was pretty good to start, but with _Human_, they started to really get my blood boiling. _Symbolic_ topped that, and then _the Sound of Perseverance_ seemed like it came right out of the future. Then, sadly, Chuck passed away at the height of career.

I also agree about Incubus. "Azwethinkweiz" was probably their best track.  _S.C.I.E.N.C.E._ was pretty darn great, and then they completely reinvented their sound for _Make Yourself_, which broke my heart, because I was really getting into their first couple discs - I actually thought there was another band calling themselves "Incubus."  _Morning View_ had some tracks I enjoyed quite a bit, but the band themselves, as a whole, were never quite the same.

And I think most guys around here prefer the new Meshuggah to the old. I, personally, really liked _Destroy Erase Improve_, and then just regular liked everything since then.


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## MFB (Jul 29, 2016)

protest said:


> Shadows Fall comes to mind



Half the time I just consider them a one and done because of how great "The Art of Balance" is, but "The War Within" has good tracks too so it's not totally fair. 

They dropped off the map pretty hard after those two


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## Mathemagician (Jul 29, 2016)

Slayer. Reign in blood and seasons in the abyss are the only two albums you need in order to glean everything they're about. You get a fast and slow album. Done.


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## jerm (Jul 29, 2016)

Evergrey, In Flames, Arsis, Metallica, Abigail Williams.


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## vilk (Jul 29, 2016)

Converge

It's not their fault, though. Jane Doe is the best metalcore album that's ever been written and recorded by humans.

But then again, that's not even their first first stuff. So... should it not count? Sh/t. I thought I had a good one but I didn't.

Let me redeem myself: Cryptopsy


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## ArtDecade (Jul 29, 2016)

*Pestilence* - because no more Martin van Drunen.
*Morbid Angel* - because no more fire in the playing or songwriting. 
*Mayhem* - because no more Dead, Euronymous, or Count Grishnackh.


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 29, 2016)

Red Hot Chilli Peppers along with Metallica have to top this list imo...... RHCP are a totally differnt band to the one they were up to and inc Blood Sugar S$x Magik. One Hot Minute was a great album too with Dave Navarro one of my favs of theirs but from Californication on wards their an easy listening Radio freindly band... its like the Good Time boys never exisited....


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## TimothyLeary (Jul 29, 2016)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Mastodon



They hurt me so much. =(


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## ArtHam (Jul 29, 2016)

Louis Cypher said:


> Red Hot Chilli Peppers along with Metallica have to top this list imo...... RHCP are a totally differnt band to the one they were up to and inc Blood Sugar S$x Magik. One Hot Minute was a great album too with Dave Navarro one of my favs of theirs but from Californication on wards their an easy listening Radio freindly band... its like the Good Time boys never exisited....



to be fair though Blood Sugar Sex Magik was already very different from the earlier stuff like Freaky Styley.


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## JD27 (Jul 29, 2016)

Most bands I like tend to follow that path. Maybe to no fault of their own, it's just when you first discover a band and really like the album, I find I'm always looking for them to somehow top it. I'm still waiting for Lamb Of God to make another ATPB, but it's just not going to happen. Then there are bands like Mastodon and Baroness that I much prefer the newer albums.


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## SD83 (Jul 29, 2016)

Aside from some of the already mentioned:
Linkin Park. They are rather good at making radio friendly rock songs, but the first two records were something different entirely. 
Gojira. Everything after "From Mars to Sirius" seems like a logical progression, just in a direction I don't like.
Machine Head. Peaked with "The Blackening", got increasingly boring since.

Though none of these got really "bad", they're good at what they do, I just don't like it. The only band that comes to my mind right now that actually changed their direction AND is bad at what they're doing is In Flames.


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## gunch (Jul 29, 2016)

*Clutches his copies of Leviathan and Remission and cries on the floor*

Also pretty much every band I like 

VoM (Matriarch wasn't _as_ bad though) 
Danza and by extension Josh Travis, his 7 string sound was way better than his 8s and 9s stuff by miles 

Ion Dissonance 
Fallujah (Dreamless and The Flesh Prevails fell short of the promise Nomadic and The Harvest Wombs had)


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## JustMac (Jul 29, 2016)

^Absolutely, Nomadic is special, and eternally fascinating because nothing really grew from _it_. Sure, Fallujah developed immensely as a band after that in terms of success, but they became something very different. 

Wouldn't a reverse of the thread title be more interesting? I'm scratching my head here trying to think of bands who's music is getting continuously better. Vektor maybe? Beyonce too (not a band, mind you), that Lemonade album is awesome! Vektor and Beyonce should tour together.


Dare I say Periphery? Everyone's raving about that new one in the thread for them, but it doesn't do anything for me at all. Jeez, just had a flashback to when Periphery 1 dropped, NOTHING sounded like that before. I think when you pioneer something it's hard to ever capture that again, living in the shadow of your own success. Then again, my opinion seems like an outlier here.


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## Science_Penguin (Jul 29, 2016)

The Sex Pistols. 

Nevermind the Bollocks was a masterpiece of Punk Rock, and Nevermind the Bollocks was okay too, but... I dunno, they REALLY seemed to lose it with Nevermind the Bollocks. Oh, and the final nail in the coffin for me? Nevermind the Bollocks... eugh...

No, but, really, if you've heard some of my opinions here, you know I'm pretty forgiving of bands changing their sound (cause its usually a MINOR change just to keep things fresh)... but, if I had to point to one I didn't like:

Sonata Arctica. A High School favourite of mine. The first few albums were solid Power Metal gold, Reckoning Night was like a nice blend of that and some dark story-driven Proggy stuff... and Unia onwards is just okay. Good songs here and there, but as complete albums, nothing to write home about.

On the opposite end of things:
Blood Stain Child. One good track worthy of the "Hybrid Metal Trance" name they've applied to themselves (Freedom), and the rest sounded like speedy death metal. Then, Epsilon dropped and it was everything I was hoping for in a Metal/Electronic hybrid band! And their latest single is pretty sweet as well- REALLY looking forward to their next full album.


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## protest (Jul 29, 2016)

MFB said:


> Half the time I just consider them a one and done because of how great "The Art of Balance" is, but "The War Within" has good tracks too so it's not totally fair.
> 
> They dropped off the map pretty hard after those two



There's Of One Blood too which came out before Art of Balancem and I think is better than The War Within. The War Within was kind of a let down to because it starts off like a beast with Light That Blinds, and then doesn't really get back to that level. They've had good songs since then, but not full albums.



JD27 said:


> Then there are bands like Mastodon and Baroness that I much prefer the newer albums.



Yea I'm the same. I couldn't get into Mastodon before I heard Crack the Skye, and I still don't really dig their heavy stuff. Blood Mountain is probably my favorite of theirs.


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## mike0 (Jul 29, 2016)

i largely agree with most that you guys have already thrown out. coincidentally listening to opeth when i saw this topic... although, in my eyes they were really solid all the way through GR (watershed was still pretty good too), so i wouldn't say that _only_ their earlier albums were excellent. they get a pass.

the first bands to pop into my head when i saw this were metallica, in flames, mastodon, maiden, and rush. i didn't think of chili peppers at first, but reading it in here reminded me that i really only like uplift mofo through blood sugar.

some others i'd throw out there are genesis, van halen, system of a down, muse, yes, coheed, and wu-tang. not all have recently put out music, but i think they all should qualify for not exactly topping their first few albums in their later releases (opinion, of course).


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## JD27 (Jul 29, 2016)

protest said:


> There's Of One Blood too which came out before Art of Balancem and I think is better than The War Within. The War Within was kind of a let down to because it starts off like a beast with Light That Blinds, and then doesn't really get back to that level. They've had good songs since then, but not full albums.



I like from Blood Mountain and forward.

I don't dislike any of Shadows Falls albums, though I agree they hit the high point with The Art of Balance. When they signed with Atlantic and released Threads of Life that was the weakest for me. I actually liked Fire From The Sky quite a bit.


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## myrtorp (Jul 29, 2016)

Ensiferum and Amoral in my opinion!


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## protest (Jul 29, 2016)

JD27 said:


> I like from Blood Mountain and forward.
> 
> I don't dislike any of Shadows Falls albums, though I agree they hit the high point with The Art of Balance. When they signed with Atlantic and released Threads of Life that was the weakest for me. I actually liked Fire From The Sky quite a bit.



Yea same for me on Mastodon. I don't think I've heard Fire From the Sky, I'll have to check it out. Threads of Life was the last one I actually purchased. I've listened to the one after that though and I liked a few songs, the first track (I think) on that album was pretty killer.


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## bostjan (Jul 29, 2016)

How about Guns N Roses?

_Appetite for Destruction_, then _Lies_, then _Use Your Illusion I_, then _Use Your Illusion II_, then _The Spaghetti Incident?_, and then the album that took forever to come out that people said was actually pretty good, but I never heard. To me, seems like a pretty steep downhill slide.

Actually, I can't think of too many bands where the first album was the best, but there are plenty where the second or third, or sometimes fourth album is the best. And it's very common for a band to have 5-10 years of excellence, then continue dragging along in mediocrity for an extended career after that. And it's really rare for a band to consistently improve over time and call it quits at the height of their creativity.


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## Random3 (Jul 29, 2016)

Metallica are the obvious choice.

Apart from that I can't get into Trivium's new material. Ascendancy and Shogun are by far their best. The Crusade and In Waves were ok. Vengeance and Silence I just can't get into.

In Flames are a big one as well. The only post-Clayman album I like by them is Come Clarity.

Children of Bodom are an odd one for me. They were my favourite band for the longest time, even after the change of direction with AYDY. I like all of their albums apart from Relentless, but the pre-AYDY was their best era.


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## ImNotAhab (Jul 29, 2016)

DLG said:


> pretty much every band ever



Dillinger Escape Plan thankfullly stand in protest of this unfortunate convention.


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## Blood Tempest (Jul 29, 2016)

Entombed (surprised no one mentioned them yet)
Darkthrone
Burzum
Marduk
After the Burial
Cannibal Corpse (I personally prefer the Barnes era stuff, but love it all)
Tool
Dead to Fall
Watain
Skeletonwitch

As far as Shadows Fall goes, they have never put out something I didn't like. I do feel that "Of One Blood" and "The Art of Balance" are their strongest though.


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## vilk (Jul 29, 2016)

ImNotAhab said:


> Dillinger Escape Plan thankfullly stand in protest of this unfortunate convention.



What? Calculating Infinity is my favorite followed by Miss Murder, and to my knowledge that is common among DEP fans!

Who else on this forum says CI and MM are the best two DEP albums?


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 29, 2016)

Newer Mastodon isn't "bad," neither is newer Baroness. It's just not what got me into them, and not really interesting to me. Those bands were my gateway to sludge metal, and the sludge juxtaposed with some polish was what I liked about them. I respect their artistic decision, I just don't much care for it. Dude from Mastodon said he never really wanted to be in a metal band anyway, so I'm sure he's happy. 

QotSA also lost me at Era Vulgaris, I felt they were much better with Dave Grohl and Nick Oliveri.


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## vilk (Jul 29, 2016)

Dave Grohl was only on one album: Songs for the Deaf. Their very best album, and basically the only one I listen to. But I've listened to it _so much_


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jul 29, 2016)

Blood Tempest said:


> After the Burial



[x]Strongly Disagree

Wolves Within is their best album imo, don't even see a lot of hate for it except for the people that bag on A Wolf Amongst Ravens for being double djent thallcore. Lots of people will say Rareform, which is close, but WW is definitely an incredibly high tier effort. 



vilk said:


> What? Calculating Infinity is my favorite followed by Miss Murder, and to my knowledge that is common among DEP fans!
> 
> Who else on this forum says CI and MM are the best two DEP albums?



I could give this one to you, but One of Us Is the Killer was an awesome release, and it seems as though most people agree. Flagging 'Killer' as an outlier though I'd say you're right.


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## Rachmaninoff (Jul 29, 2016)

bostjan said:


> Dream Theater hit their stride with SfaM, IMO, and although their new stuff is good, it doesn't speak to me on the same level as everything up to Octavarium.



I used to be a *HUGE* DT fan. It was the very reason I bought my UV7BK, which brought me to this forum. After Octavarium, however, DT started following a formula, and since then they SUCK... I tried to listen every new album, and I found them really really boring. 

Portnoy's departure only made them worse.

So I'm stuck on the old DT albums, which I worship.


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## protest (Jul 29, 2016)

vilk said:


> What? Calculating Infinity is my favorite followed by Miss Murder, and to my knowledge that is common among DEP fans!
> 
> Who else on this forum says CI and MM are the best two DEP albums?



As much as CI was amazing when it came out, it's pretty much one long song. Their newer stuff are better albums even if they're not revolutionary. I think Option Paralysis is as good as any of their stuff.


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## ThePIGI King (Jul 29, 2016)

For Today - Ekklesia and Portraits are my favorites, they practically get worse each album that comes out, with their EP being the only exception
DethKlok - Deathalbum > Dethalbum II > Dethalbum III
The Devil Wears Prada
KoRn


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## bhakan (Jul 29, 2016)

DLG said:


> pretty much every band ever


Came in here to post this...


M3CHK1LLA said:


> right?!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and then state these reasons. I definitely think the opposite thread would be more interesting. I don't know that I can think of many bands, if any at all, that I think have gotten consistently better. I feel like by 3-4 albums, almost all bands have already done their best work.

To actually contribute though, Coheed and Cambria. Their first 3 albums are all masterpieces in my opinion and I consider Second Stage Turbine Blade my all time favorite album, but I don't think they've come close to touching their early work and I absolutely can't stand their most recent album.


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## Leberbs (Jul 29, 2016)

Chevelle

What the hell happened when Dean Bernardini joined the band?


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## Sermo Lupi (Jul 29, 2016)

bostjan said:


> Dream Theater hit their stride with SfaM, IMO, and although their new stuff is good, it doesn't speak to me on the same level as everything up to Octavarium.



Surprised DT wasn't mentioned earlier. Depending on who you ask, Dream Theater hasn't put out anything _bad_ in the strictest sense, but most fans will prefer the Images and Words era stuff through to Six Degrees, maybe even Octavarium, vs. the albums that came from Systematic Chaos onwards. 

Part of it is the thing someone had mentioned earlier, that first albums tend to be better because bands have had years to work on them when they didn't have a write-record-tour schedule to worry about. But with DT, Images and Words was kind of the stand out album, not WDADU (i.e. their sophomore effort, not their first album). However, the philosophy is still kind of the same, since the band was looking for a new vocalist at that time and just wrote new material for about a year and a half whilst they searched. So that effort produced not only Images and Words, but also A Change of Seasons, which they initially wanted to include on Images but didn't at the behest of their label--two classic albums of theirs, in any case. SFaM benefitted from a similar situation in that the band was on the verge of breaking up for a variety of reasons, most notably due to the difficulty in finding a new keyboardist, and once again they had time to dedicate a lot of effort to writing new material, which again led to them producing one of the landmark albums of their career. 

Not saying that time=quality ALL of the time, but it does make me wonder if DT would have benefitted from that hiatus Portnoy apparently proposed. If it was the rumoured 5 years then that's probably too much, but had they taken, say, 3+ years just to write new material before they embarked on recording and touring a new album, who knows what they would have produced. I'm still a big DT fan, but I'd definitely say that their later albums follow more of a formula than their earlier stuff, and I do wonder if part of that is due to how formulaic their writing process has become.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2016)

I think a better topic would be bands that get better overtime. You don't see many bands like that.


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## Double A (Jul 29, 2016)

Guys, you know what would be a better topic? Bands whose newer albums are better than their older albums? What do you all think of that?


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## Tech Wrath (Jul 30, 2016)

JustMac said:


> Dare I say Periphery? Everyone's raving about that new one in the thread for them, but it doesn't do anything for me at all. Jeez, just had a flashback to when Periphery 1 dropped, NOTHING sounded like that before. I think when you pioneer something it's hard to ever capture that again, living in the shadow of your own success. Then again, my opinion seems like an outlier here.


+1
100% agree.
Periphery 1 was all Bulb's creative mind when he was young. Nowadays I feel like they are a lot more stripped down and straightforward. They sort of molded their own sound but in doing that they hopped on the "djent" train with everyone else and are a lot more simplistic. Some can argue they are more conceptual but I just get bored so fast. Songs like Zyglrox and Buttersnips just stimulate my mind and are exciting and hectic. All of that seems lost in their newer stuff.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Jul 30, 2016)

JustMac said:


> Dare I say Periphery? Everyone's raving about that new one in the thread for them, but it doesn't do anything for me at all. Jeez, just had a flashback to when Periphery 1 dropped, NOTHING sounded like that before. I think when you pioneer something it's hard to ever capture that again, living in the shadow of your own success. Then again, my opinion seems like an outlier here.


I was gonna say P-riff...errrr...ee, but someone beat me to it. ^


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## Science_Penguin (Jul 30, 2016)

I'll be honest, I prefer Periphery's later material. First album, save Icarus Lives and Jetpacks, sounded like someone going "LOOK! Look at how Prog I am!" and then, after that it was like, "Alright, now that I've proven I'm skilled, let's take that skill and actually make music."


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jul 30, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> I'll be honest, I prefer Periphery's later material. First album, save Icarus Lives and Jetpacks, sounded like someone going "LOOK! Look at how Prog I am!" and then, after that it was like, "Alright, now that I've proven I'm skilled, let's take that skill and actually make music."



All New Materials? Ow My Feelings? Light? 
Now that I think of it, I'd probably say Insomnia, Zyglrox, and Racecar were the only tryhard prog songs on there. 

The self titled album had a lot of really well rounded, solid material, I think. I listen to the newer stuff more these days but I think that's because my play count on all the old stuff is in the thousands now. It feels like the difference now is that there are more different types of songs than there used to be, it used to pretty much just be a metal album. Now there's a sizable amount of softer songs on the discs. 
To be fair though, I think the new album is a huge return to form, and I might put it on par with or ahead of PI. PII is still king to me though.


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## Xaios (Jul 30, 2016)

SD83 said:


> Machine Head. Peaked with "The Blackening", got increasingly boring since.



What? Have you HEARD The Burning Red and Supercharger? That .... was rank. TTAOE was a _major_ return to form. They might be a bit boring since The Blackening, but their newer material is far better than The Burning Red and Supercharger.



Science_Penguin said:


> On the opposite end of things:
> Blood Stain Child. One good track worthy of the "Hybrid Metal Trance" name they've applied to themselves (Freedom), and the rest sounded like speedy death metal. Then, Epsilon dropped and it was everything I was hoping for in a Metal/Electronic hybrid band! And their latest single is pretty sweet as well- REALLY looking forward to their next full album.



Heh, Blood Stain Child is a great example of a band that has one album that I love (Idolator) while I really don't enjoy the rest of their discography.

And yeah, In Flames and Metallica are really the golden example. I'll just repost this bit from a post I made in a very similar thread from a couple years back regarding my thoughts on In Flames:



> What can I say that hasn't already been said? I started getting into MDM in 2004 (well past its heyday, obviously) and Soundtrack To Your Escape was the first album of theirs I heard. At first I loved it. Then I got into their back catalogue (Colony and Clayman are still two of my top 10 favorite albums ever) and decided I hated it, especially after Come Clarity came out. For a while, I loved Come Clarity and disliked STYE. Then some switch in my brain flipped. I think it was around the time I really started getting into prog metal, but all of a sudden I found myself hating Come Clarity more than I ever disliked STYE, while simultaneously finding that, while I didn't love STYE, I certainly appreciated it more. My opinion of Come Clarity hasn't changed in that time. I view it much the same as "Death Magnetic" by Metallica, a band mimicking the style that made them popular without capturing the spark that made it special in the first place. I also loathed A Sense of Purpose and Sounds of a Playground Fading (which I dubbed "Sound of My Interest Fading"). The only balm there is that I didn't have to purchase either one to come to that conclusion, as they were kind enough to post both albums online prior to their release (as in the label put them on Myspace and Youtube, I didn't have to pirate anything). I only heard two songs off the new album, but frankly I thought they were terrible as well.


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## Random3 (Jul 30, 2016)

I would agree to a point that since The Blackening Machine Head haven't really changed their sound, apart from the introduction of orchestral parts. Locust and Bloodstone are both brilliant albums however, you could definitely argue that they are basically Blackening ptII and ptIII.

Regarding Dream Theater, I am a bit of a DT fanboy and I have to say their best era for me was Scenes through to Black Clouds.

Images and Words was fantastic, Awake was good, Infinity was not. So as a whole that era wasn't their best IMO. I can't think of a single bad track on the next 6 albums they did. I actually like ADTOE and the self titled a lot, but not quite as much as the others. Astonishing I have listened to maybe 10 times and it isn't as good as their other stuff. I would place it above Infinity but below everything else.


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## Science_Penguin (Jul 30, 2016)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> All New Materials? Ow My Feelings? Light?
> Now that I think of it, I'd probably say Insomnia, Zyglrox, and Racecar were the only tryhard prog songs on there.
> 
> The self titled album had a lot of really well rounded, solid material, I think. I listen to the newer stuff more these days but I think that's because my play count on all the old stuff is in the thousands now. It feels like the difference now is that there are more different types of songs than there used to be, it used to pretty much just be a metal album. Now there's a sizable amount of softer songs on the discs.
> To be fair though, I think the new album is a huge return to form, and I might put it on par with or ahead of PI. PII is still king to me though.



PII is good. I consider it to be a good blend of the Djenty, Proggy sutff with the softer straightforward stuff... BUT, the thing you gotta understand about me is, I like softer straightforward stuff, so to me Alpha and Omega stepping over towards the softer side wasn't unwelcome.


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## dr_game0ver (Jul 30, 2016)

Double A said:


> Guys, you know what would be a better topic? Bands whose newer albums are better than their older albums? What do you all think of that?



Haggard and Green Carnation.


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## GalacticDeath (Jul 30, 2016)

Double A said:


> Guys, you know what would be a better topic? Bands whose newer albums are better than their older albums? What do you all think of that?



Yeah that's definitely trickier. Right off the top of my head Job For a Cowboy and Archspire come to mind.


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## wankerness (Jul 30, 2016)

larry said:


> STAIND comes to mind.
> 
> 'dysfunction' was quite heavy/brooding for it's time.. still gets me right in the feels sometimes. 'break the cycle' went somewhere new but retained much of what 'did it' for me, then 14 shades foreshadowed a much 'lighter' direction. After that,  .
> 
> If i could afford it; i'd buy the rights to dysfunction and tour it.



Staind is a good one, almost no one ever thinks about them. Dysfunction is a cool album, it's like a way heavier guitar-wise Alice in Chains or something.



protest said:


> Opeth, but I give them (and other similar bands) a bit of a pass because their sound changed like 20 years into their career.
> 
> For me the killer is bands that seem like they're going to be awesome and then just aren't, or change their sound completely. Shadows Fall comes to mind, All that Remains too. Incubus for a non metal band, S.C.I.E.N.C.E. was cool as .....
> 
> One band that I think is the opposite of this is Dillinger. CI was crazy and different and will always stick out because of that, but Option Paralysis is a better album.



Incubus's Fungus Amongus/SCIENCE are also a pretty good answer. After that they turned into radio band with some light quirks.



dr_game0ver said:


> Haggard and Green Carnation.



Green Carnation BETTER over time? Whattttt!?! "Light of Day Day of Darkness" is a super-ambitious masterpiece, and then their follow-ups seemed to be them trying to compete with the likes of Nickelback or something. Their third album in particular is vile. "The Acoustic Verses" was a step back up, but it seemed almost like an EP in preparation for an LP that never came, and still their second album was BY FAR their peak. Even their first album was far better than the "rock" albums.


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## dr_game0ver (Jul 30, 2016)

> Green Carnation BETTER over time? Whattttt!?! "Light of Day Day of Darkness" is a super-ambitious masterpiece, and then their follow-ups seemed to be them trying to compete with the likes of Nickelback or something. Their third album in particular is vile. "The Acoustic Verses" was a step back up, but it seemed almost like an EP in preparation for an LP that never came, and still their second album was BY FAR their peak. Even their first album was far better than the "rock" albums.



I don't disagree with you but the joke was more that they started as a forgettable death metal band.


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## fps (Jul 30, 2016)

Most people are going to think this of their favourite bands who have been going a while. This is because they fell in love with the early records.
It's also because newer fans who get into a band through their new work are more likely to enjoy that current sound. Therefore what you're left with are fans who complain that their favourite bands don't make music that makes them feel like they did when they were younger. Which is more to do with the fans' developmental stage and life experiences at the time they listened to the music than it is anything else.


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## wankerness (Jul 30, 2016)

fps said:


> Most people are going to think this of their favourite bands who have been going a while. This is because they fell in love with the early records.
> It's also because newer fans who get into a band through their new work are more likely to enjoy that current sound. Therefore what you're left with are fans who complain that their favourite bands don't make music that makes them feel like they did when they were younger. Which is more to do with the fans' developmental stage and life experiences at the time they listened to the music than it is anything else.



I don't think this is true with most cases. Most bands that change for the worse over time don't attract new fans with the new albums. They're just bad. There's a reason they got popular in the first place and lost fans over time beyond simply "the old fans don't like the new sound!"


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## wankerness (Jul 30, 2016)

Double A said:


> Guys, you know what would be a better topic? Bands whose newer albums are better than their older albums? What do you all think of that?



That would be a more interesting topic, yes.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Jul 30, 2016)

Science_Penguin said:


> PII is good. I consider it to be a good blend of the Djenty, Proggy sutff with the softer straightforward stuff... BUT, the thing you gotta understand about me is, I like softer straightforward stuff, so to me Alpha and Omega stepping over towards the softer side wasn't unwelcome.



Fair enough. I dig both new and old Periphery so it's pretty easy to see both sides.
But oddly enough, my experience is the opposite, haha. I can't vibe with Juggernaut unless I really focus on it, the normal Periphery albums are more easy listening to me.


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## steelprostate (Jul 31, 2016)

Kinda surprised to see people say Shadows Fall began dropping off with The War Within. I thought that album was absolutely killer. Not as heavy as Of One Blood or The Art of Balance, but overall I thought it was arguably their best effort. Then things fell off pretty hard. I don't think it's fair to say Dillinger's newer albums are any worse than their older ones. They're definitely different but still great. One band I'm glad I haven't seen listed, and don't think I'll ever have to worry about on a list like this is BTBAM. I find everything they've done to be mindblowingly good.


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## SD83 (Jul 31, 2016)

Xaios said:


> What? Have you HEARD The Burning Red and Supercharger? That .... was rank. TTAOE was a _major_ return to form. They might be a bit boring since The Blackening, but their newer material is far better than The Burning Red and Supercharger.



I don't really understand all the hate those two records get. The burning red wasn't great, but Supercharger? I'd take that one over Bloodstones any day. I just tried to go through Bloodstone and... nope. I love "Now we die", but the rest sounds like they have a one-page list "how to write a Machine Head song" and they just do their homework. There's nothing bad with that Motörhead did that for approximatly 700 years, it's not like they will ever release something that's actually "bad" if they continue just that way. But then again, if I had to name my top3 Machine Head records it would be 1)Blackening/TTAOE, 3)Supercharger, so what do I know


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 31, 2016)

As soon as I saw this thread I though Mastodon, a thousand times Mastodon. They exploded out of the blocks with their first full length, "Remission", lost a little bit of steam with "Leviathan" but still released a killer album and then things started going wrong. "Blood Mountain" was the first album to me where it sounded like they realised things were going wrong but still tried to make music in the mold of their good stuff. After that things very sharply went downhill. They went from having the fire so perfectly encapsulated in their music as crushingly powerful metal band with a unique sound to being a crap prog rock outfit.

I'll cite a few points that I think have diluted their sound and ruined them, in no particular order.

* Brann Dailor forgetting what made him a good drummer. He started off as having their amazing, super-busy style. He was chaotic and always sounded like it was all about to fall apart, playing with the beat to lengthen and shorten bars, fills and snare rolls up the ying yang. I remember him saying this is due to being self-taught, he just started playing how he felt he should play. But sometimes when you play by feel and then start analyising what you're doing, you confuse yourself to the point where you can't remember how you did it in the first place. Brann seems to have tried to clean and tighten his style to be a more conventional (and boring) metal drummer. Now the drumming is flat and lifeless. This probably hasn't been helped by his insistence on singing.

* Everyone singing parts. Brent Hinds used to be a great guitarist, he's never been much of a singer, but he can't help himself but put loads of vocal parts in. Same again for Brann Dailor, who isn't a great singer but it seems like this band is suffering from Mike Portnoy syndrome, where members become so determined to exert creative control over the band they start singing when it was really not necessary. Troy Sanders seems to have blown his voice out too, he just sounds weak and tired these days.

* They've become self-indulgent. They used to be tight and focused and if a song was long it was long for a reason. If there were solos and leads, they served a purpose. Brent Hinds isn't a great soloist, but it seems like every song now includes a mandatory rambling pentatonic solo. Remember that lead break in "Megalodon" that splits the song in half? Wow, what a fantastic bar of music that is. Contrast that to the aimless, directionless pentatonic bar room solos Brent knocks out these days.

* They've lost the spirit of the original band. Ok, unlike Slipknot who promised to break up if they lost intensity (and reneged on that, realising the money was too much to give up), Mastodon never made any promises to keep their passion, creativity and intensity, but it's disappointing all the same to see them dragging the good name of the band through the mud with successive prog rock turds. They were AAA grade searing metal with a unique sound, now they're just a bloated old stoner rock band. What broke them, was it Brann losing his sister, Brent's rampant alcoholism or did they just stop giving a ....? 

I still hear and see very occasional flashes of the old brilliance, but it's buried so deeply under a mountain of hubris and ego that I doubt it can ever be recovered. Someone should call a vet, I wish that tired, sick old Mastodon could be put to sleep.


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## gunch (Jul 31, 2016)

Oh yeah, The End, from the most cathartic and intense mathcore to radio metal in the span of 1 album


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## MFB (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm throwing Mars Volta in this category. I love Deloused in the Comatorium, and Frances the Mute, and it's not to say their newer stuff is bad per se; it just feels meandering and not quite as focused as the rest.


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## wankerness (Jul 31, 2016)

Esp Griffyn said:


> As soon as I saw this thread I though Mastodon, a thousand times Mastodon. They exploded out of the blocks with their first full length, "Remission", lost a little bit of steam with "Leviathan" but still released a killer album and then things started going wrong. "Blood Mountain" was the first album to me where it sounded like they realised things were going wrong but still tried to make music in the mold of their good stuff. After that things very sharply went downhill. They went from having the fire so perfectly encapsulated in their music as crushingly powerful metal band with a unique sound to being a crap prog rock outfit.



I thought most people were talking about the last two albums when mentioning Mastodon in this thread. You don't like Crack the Skye? I think that's BY FAR their best album, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that thought. Leviathan was the first one I liked. I've warmed up to Remission a bit over the years, but I still think it's a lot worse than the three that followed. The last two albums didn't make me very excited, but I liked a few tracks on them enough that I wouldn't list them in this thread yet.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 31, 2016)

wankerness said:


> I thought most people were talking about the last two albums when mentioning Mastodon in this thread. You don't like Crack the Skye? I think that's BY FAR their best album, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that thought. Leviathan was the first one I liked. I've warmed up to Remission a bit over the years, but I still think it's a lot worse than the three that followed. The last two albums didn't make me very excited, but I liked a few tracks on them enough that I wouldn't list them in this thread yet.



Crack the Skye has it's moments, but for the most part I find it to be ponderous and contrived. That for me was the turning point where they seemed to become focused on pomp and bluster rather than just cutting out sharp, hard-hitting songs. Many of the my stated reasons for disliking newer Mastodon began to manifest on CTS. Although I think CTS is a 6/10 album at best, things went sharply off a cliff for The Hunter.


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## chipchappy (Jul 31, 2016)

Metallica for sure.

Pantera post VDOP days (with the exception of the tasty solo in Floods)

Wasn't as into anything after Everything Went Black by Black Flag

Static Age is really the only Misfits Album that does anything for me

Mudvayne after their first album

Anything after Alive or Just Breathing by KsE

Limp Bizkit's 3DBY was killer and everything after that was lame-ville. 

I feel like Lamb of God really hit their stride on Palaces. Everything after that seemed like an echo of it. Although Sacrament had some solid tunes and Wrath definitely had some bangers as well. 

Truthfully there aren't a lot of bands that have consistently wow'ed me throughout their discography tbh. Although that is a bit of an unrealistic expectation I suppose.


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## dr_game0ver (Aug 1, 2016)

Helloween


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## InFlames235 (Aug 1, 2016)

Pretty much every band I can think of isn't as good after a certain amount of releases. I mean, think about it - a lot of us write music - how hard is it to consistently come up with great ideas? There's only so much in the well. 

I have to give HUGE props to bands that, while not as good, still put out incredible music for the amount of albums they have. Coheed & Cambria, Opeth, Dream Theater (some will laugh at this), Symphony X are a few that come to mind. Honestly, it's astonishing these days when a band doesn't lose their magic by the third album. So many great bands I can think of that had an incredible two albums and then faded incredibly.


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## oompa (Aug 2, 2016)

Haha what a provoking thread title  So I'm in the camp where it'd probably be quicker to list the bands that this didn't apply to than the other way around.

But to add something to the discussion, stuff like Mastodon's Leviathan and Gojira's From Mars To Sirius made me a bit of a cynic when it comes to album releases (*cough* pun very much intended, Cynic).

It's because I remember listening to these iconic albums and thinking "wow, they found something unique here, if this is the stuff they do from now on their next album will be the bestest" and then they just.. don't make any more albums like that one. After enough times I just get cynical 

Or just old and cranky. Probably just old and cranky actually, but I don't mean that a group just makes better and then worse albums, I mean albums where a group clearly found some different style and/or sound that I just dig artistically. Nowadays when that happens with a new band I just assume they'll "miss the point" and make a worse/more stereotypical album next


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## celticelk (Aug 2, 2016)

wankerness said:


> .
> 
> Incubus's Fungus Amongus/SCIENCE are also a pretty good answer. After that they turned into radio band with some light quirks.



I quite liked _Make Yourself_ as well, but I'll agree that they fall off pretty sharply after that.


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## celticelk (Aug 2, 2016)

I don't think anyone's mentioned Baroness yet. _Red_ and _Blue_ were amazing progressive sludge, _Yellow & Green_ was more classic-rock-influenced, but still had some great songs, and _Purple_ was just kind of meh.


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## runbirdman (Aug 8, 2016)

I have always been an enormous Mastodon fan but I really did not enjoy The Hunter or Once More 'Round the Sun as much as I enjoyed every other album. I like the raw sound present in Remission and Leviathan. Leviathan as a concept album is awesome. "Blood and Thunder" is a masterpiece and "Naked Burn" showcases the vocal cohesion they have strived for since. Blood Mountain was fantastically produced but had a few weak/ generic tracks (i.e. "Hand of Stone" and "Circle of Cysquatch"). Then comes the fork in the road with Crack the Skye. I think Crack the Skye was a tremendous album that showed a maturing band. I love every track on the record. It's not the tour de force that you had with Remission and Leviathan but it sounds like everyone in the band was at their best for the album. And then... Bleh. I'm not even sure how to rationalize the shift to The Hunter and OMRTS. It just seems as though every member of the band has decided to be a centerpiece and the albums fall flat because of it. The were heavily criticized for Crack the Skye's more melodic approach and it sounds like they just said, "We'll show them," and made albums that were heavier for the sake of being heavier with none of the depth of their previous albums.


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## wankerness (Aug 8, 2016)

celticelk said:


> I don't think anyone's mentioned Baroness yet. _Red_ and _Blue_ were amazing progressive sludge, _Yellow & Green_ was more classic-rock-influenced, but still had some great songs, and _Purple_ was just kind of meh.



I haven't heard their first two albums. I got Yellow & Green and Purple, and sure noticed a huge drop-off there!


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## Fraz666 (Aug 8, 2016)

DLG said:


> pretty much every band ever


this.


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## EmaDaCuz (Aug 8, 2016)

My obvious choice is Soilwork. "Steelbath Suicide" and "Chainheart Machine" are masterpieces, the newer stuff is not for me.
Has anyone mentioned Rammstein? Fantastic band until "Mutter", then just good.

You have already said about Maiden, Peppers, Mastodon, GnR. Opeth, well, I like them until "Still Life", plus a few songs on GR. 
I would add to the list Nightwish and Rhapsody (of Fire). And Dimmu Borgir, I love the first 3 albums, their later stuff is just too polished and overproduced.


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 8, 2016)

I found out why Mastodon suck now:

http://www.metalinjection.net/shocking-revelations/mastodons-brent-hinds-i-....ing-hate-heavy-metal


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## wankerness (Aug 8, 2016)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I found out why Mastodon suck now:
> 
> http://www.metalinjection.net/shocking-revelations/mastodons-brent-hinds-i-....ing-hate-heavy-metal



Link owned by word filter!

I honestly prefer The Hunter to Remission. Call me a bad person! Octopus Has No Friends, The Sparrow, Blasteroid, Spectrelight, Curl of the Burl, and especially Bedazzled Fingernails are AWESOME!!  I listened to it probably about 30 times. I haven't listened to the new one much, so I don't really have an opinion on it.


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## shadowlife (Aug 8, 2016)

Jane's Addiction

Anything after Ritual de lo Habitual is unnecessary IMO.

On the flip side, i like the Iron Maiden albums with Bruce better than the early ones with Paul, and i think their last album is better than the three that preceded it.


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## EmaDaCuz (Aug 9, 2016)

shadowlife said:


> On the flip side, i like the Iron Maiden albums with Bruce better than the early ones with Paul, and i think their last album is better than the three that preceded it.



I can't disagree, but I see Maiden's discography as a natural progression until "Seventh son...". Most of their work after that is just good, but not wow. 
The albums with Paul, especially IM, are gorgeous. And I think it is not about pre-Bruce and post-Bruce, but more about pre-Nicko and post-Nicko. He was the one who brought IM to a new level, IMHO.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Aug 9, 2016)

DLG said:


> pretty much every band ever



This is sad but true lol.


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## Progbusters (Aug 9, 2016)

almost all of them. need to get the outsiders out of their music


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## hodorcore (Aug 9, 2016)

veil of maya


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## M3CHK1LLA (Sep 6, 2016)

...


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## lewis (Sep 6, 2016)

biggest annoyance for me is Sylosis. There I said it. Looooooads of people rave about their new music, but their debut album "Conclusion of an age" and the follow up "Edge of the Earth" (When Josh took over vocal duties), were 2 of the best metal albums, of that genre, ever.

The rest since has been a voyage into sludge, Mastodon rip offs and "hipster/Gentlemen" music. No offence but give me face melting rhythms/harmonies and solo's every day of the week over whatever the rubbish is they are now.


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## extendedsolo (Sep 6, 2016)

Radiohead fans here can probably agree that after Kid A, things got really unfocused and uneven. The Bends, Ok Computer, and Kid A are rock masterpieces. While I will say they do have some really good moments, it blows my mind that they have achieved GOD status in the rock pantheon.

Another one that comes to mind is Michael Jackson. Nothing will ever top Off the Wall for me. Thriller is obviously a classic album and incredible, but man Bad? Really? that song is terrible. Yes Bad had 4 songs that are stone cold classics but really I thought Off the Wall was peak artistry for Michael. I just like the funkier stuff vs the more pop oriented stuff. Lets not eve get going on Dangerous.

Foo Fighters. Colour and Shape and S/T were amazing, but they have just not been interesting to me in 20 years. Just extremely bland rock music done better by bands in the 70s.


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## gunch (Sep 6, 2016)

extendedsolo said:


> Radiohead fans here can probably agree that after Kid A, things got really unfocused and uneven. The Bends, Ok Computer, and Kid A are rock masterpieces. While I will say they do have some really good moments, it blows my mind that they have achieved GOD status in the rock pantheon.
> 
> Another one that comes to mind is Michael Jackson. Nothing will ever top Off the Wall for me. Thriller is obviously a classic album and incredible, but man Bad? Really? that song is terrible. Yes Bad had 4 songs that are stone cold classics but really I thought Off the Wall was peak artistry for Michael. I just like the funkier stuff vs the more pop oriented stuff. Lets not eve get going on Dangerous.
> 
> Foo Fighters. Colour and Shape and S/T were amazing, but they have just not been interesting to me in 20 years. Just extremely bland rock music done better by bands in the 70s.



Moon Shaped Pool is really good, best since Hail to the Thief easy


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## extendedsolo (Sep 6, 2016)

silverabyss said:


> Moon Shaped Pool is really good, best since Hail to the Thief easy



I would agree! The new arrangement and feel of True Love Waits is great. You'll never find me being a defender of In Rainbows or King of Limbs though. I thought Hail to the Theif, while good and better than Amnesiac had a couple of serious clunkers on it. I wouldn't say the same about Ok computer The Bends or Amnesiac.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 6, 2016)

Linkin Park
Seether
Staind
Cold


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## wankerness (Sep 7, 2016)

extendedsolo said:


> I would agree! The new arrangement and feel of True Love Waits is great. You'll never find me being a defender of In Rainbows or King of Limbs though. I thought Hail to the Theif, while good and better than Amnesiac had a couple of serious clunkers on it. I wouldn't say the same about Ok computer The Bends or Amnesiac.



MFW I READ THIS POST







In Rainbows is their best album, besides maybe The Bends.

I still haven't listened to the new one, despite having a physical copy of it sitting next to my computer for months now  I REALLY like True Love Waits based on the piano arrangement on the same-named album by Christopher O'Riley, though!


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## feraledge (Sep 7, 2016)

Alright, I'll go for the reverse challenge just to prove that not every band gets worse/loses focus. 
Bands that got better: 
Death, as has been mentioned
Emperor
Revocation
Behemoth
Decrepit Birth
Faceless

The big caveat is that a lot of death metal and grindcore bands improved their sound or just kept it consistent and added little touches through time, but deserve credit for keeping it awesome (give or take an album or two) and occasionally finding new ways to up their game:
Misery Index
Napalm Death (short early 90s stuff)
Carcass (short Swan Song)
Nile
Mors Principium Est
Hour of Penance
At the Gates
Exhumed
Bolt Thrower
Brutal Truth (prior to reunion and short Rich's drumming)
Bloodbath (up till Fathomless)
Just to name a few. There are a lot of bands that I find myself more likely to listen to the latest album, clearly not always the case. But I do think there are plenty of bands that work well together and figure out through time what works better and what doesn't.


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## oc616 (Sep 7, 2016)

I wanted to say Fear Factory, but Genexus is actually on par with Obsolete, and Soul of a New Machine isn't that great compared to 90% of their catalog.

In Flames, but I liked their Reroute to Remain - ASOP era best rather than the REALLY old school stuff. These last 2 albums plus the teasers for their new album are pretty bland to me.


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## Viginez (Sep 7, 2016)

ArtDecade said:


> *Pestilence* - because no more Martin van Drunen.
> *Morbid Angel* - because no more fire in the playing or songwriting.
> *Mayhem* - because no more Dead, Euronymous, or Count Grishnackh.


also deicide is a joke after the hoffman era


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## extendedsolo (Sep 7, 2016)

wankerness said:


> MFW I READ THIS POST
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah the Christopher O'Reilly stuff is really good. I think if you spotify it there is a live recording on their live album. I think I heard it originally as a bside from an illegal download like 15 years ago. The new arrangement makes it sound completely fresh. That is a combination I've never heard before for favorite albums though (The Bends and In Rainbows). 


I haven't seen it in the thread, but Cattle Decapitation is another example of a band who has gotten much better with their later releases. I'm trying not to think of metal bands in this thread since I know that'll be covered.


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## WiseSplinter (Sep 7, 2016)

Some obvious ones already mentioned: Mastodon RIP 

But I'll add *Cynic* to the list, latest album really did nothing for me.


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## RevelGTR (Sep 7, 2016)

Pretty much all mine have been mentioned:

Dream Theater - Everything post Mike Portnoy is blah to awful. Unlike many I absolutely love Black Clouds, but ADTOE is fine, Self Titled was fine, the Astonishing was truly awful.

Mars Volta - Deloused and Frances are perfection, it gets spotty after that.

Periphery - It's interesting that Misha is so down on P1, for me it's a 10/10 album, P2 was 9/10, Juggernaut was meh. PIII is certainly better then Jug though.


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## concertjunkie (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm surprised (unless I missed it) that no one mentioned Opeth :cries in a corner:

the 80's prog rock thing isn't doing it for me, although in their last album, when they did more of an acoustic/oldschool opeth vibe (Elysian Woes) , that's when I have hope! I'll still go to their shows and check out the new album when it drops, but man, what they had going for so many years just sung to my soul. I get it, you don't want to play the same stuff you have been for so long, but the newer stuff feels like a bit of a regression. 

Newest Cynic cd didn't do anything for me either.


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## Masoo2 (Sep 7, 2016)

Not sure how many people agree with me, but ERRA.

Impulse was amazing, Augment was equally as good, but you could tell they were starting to decline with Moments of Clarity. I enjoyed that EP, but they started to lose their technicality and uniqueness with it. 

Drift sucks. I literally can't even get through a whole listening session of it, I think it's that bad. The mixing is subpar (why didn't they go with Brian Hood again ;_, guitar riffs seem uninspired and much more basic/generic than before, and JT has no vocal range whatsoever. 

(Didn't include Andromeda because I haven't listened to it)


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## Bearitone (Sep 7, 2016)

Job for a Cowboy.

Genesis is THE SH!T


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## wankerness (Sep 7, 2016)

concertjunkie said:


> I'm surprised (unless I missed it) that no one mentioned Opeth :cries in a corner:
> 
> the 80's prog rock thing isn't doing it for me, although in their last album, when they did more of an acoustic/oldschool opeth vibe (Elysian Woes) , that's when I have hope! I'll still go to their shows and check out the new album when it drops, but man, what they had going for so many years just sung to my soul. I get it, you don't want to play the same stuff you have been for so long, but the newer stuff feels like a bit of a regression.
> 
> Newest Cynic cd didn't do anything for me either.



*clicks Search This Thread, types Opeth*

5 other people!


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## steelprostate (Sep 8, 2016)

Have to agree on the Veil of Maya and JFAC posts. Veil of Maya was so good and unique, really with every album. But with Matriarch, Okubo's guitar work went way downhill in my opinion, and he really made the band for me. I don't hate the new vocalist, but I do miss the old stuff. With JFAC, man idk. They have some newer tracks that I love, but I don't feel like they're the same band anymore.


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## extendedsolo (Sep 8, 2016)

steelprostate said:


> Have to agree on the Veil of Maya and JFAC posts. Veil of Maya was so good and unique, really with every album. But with Matriarch, Okubo's guitar work went way downhill in my opinion, and he really made the band for me. I don't hate the new vocalist, but I do miss the old stuff. With JFAC, man idk. They have some newer tracks that I love, but I don't feel like they're the same band anymore.



JFAC is literally a different band than Genesis/Doom. New drummer, bass player, both guitar players. Only thing left over the is vocalist.


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## InFlames235 (Sep 9, 2016)

Re-posting in this thread to re-iterate how bad In Flames is these days. This was the band that initially got me into technical music and they are so bad now it's ridiculous. Feels bad, man.


----------



## TheBloodstained (Sep 9, 2016)

Gojira (Anything after The Way Of All Flesh has been kinda meh...)
SlipKnot (Lets face it... we all want more Iowa)
Mnemic (their debut album was the highpoint of their career)
CKY (The first 2 albums was pure gold. Anything after that couldn't live up to the hype)
HIM (I keep going back to the older stuff. Dark Light is the last decent thing they made)
Muse (The old stuff was so vibey and epic. The new stuff doesn't appeal to me... AT ALL!)
Coldplay (First 2 albums was solid. Everything after was boring)


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## Lasik124 (Sep 9, 2016)

Mors Principium Est comes to mind.

Unborn was sooo good!

So does Insomnium


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## Esp Griffyn (Sep 10, 2016)

TheBloodstained said:


> Gojira (Anything after The Way Of All Flesh has been kinda meh...)
> SlipKnot (Lets face it... we all want more Iowa)
> Mnemic (their debut album was the highpoint of their career)
> CKY (The first 2 albums was pure gold. Anything after that couldn't live up to the hype)
> ...



Good call on Slipknot, they fell off a cliff after Iowa, which I still think is one of the greatest albums of all time.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2016)

Surprised Iced Earth hasn't been brought up. Everything after Horror Show (and some people even hate that album ) has been a snoozefest. 

Dream Theater as well. First 3 album (.... you guys I include their real debut ) are gold, and their next 2 (or 3) are awesome. Everything after that is eeeeehh. DT13 was a step in the right direction, same with The Astonishing, but everything between 2003 - 2013 was eeeew for me. 

Queensryche was infamously bad for this. Kicked ass up until HITNF, when things got... weird. And it was just weirder from there. Some people will disagree, but I feel like they got back on track ever since Geoff was kicked out.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Sep 10, 2016)

I dont like High Country at all


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## Duosphere (Sep 10, 2016)

Better?
There's no better or worse.
Just like us, bands tastes keep changing.
When their tastes match our tastes = we like.
When they don't = we don't.

As an example, some people prefer DT early albums, some prefer the new ones, some prefer the heavy ones etc, none of them are better or worse, just different tastes.Thank God DT keep changing cause I won't stand albums sounding the same, I only hope they won't add rap to their music


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## canuck brian (Sep 10, 2016)

Meshuggah.

I'm old, something, something, lawn.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2016)

Duosphere said:


> Better?
> There's no better or worse.



Listen to Operation: Mindcrime, then listen to Dedicated to Chaos. Or Master of Puppets and Death Magnetic.

Yes, there is an objectively better and objectively worse.


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## MikeH (Sep 10, 2016)

Whitechapel. This Is Exile was their pinnacle, in my opinion. The new stuff isn't bad, per se, but I'll never get into their newer stuff like I did TIE and The Somatic Defilement.


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## MikeH (Sep 10, 2016)

Masoo2 said:


> Not sure how many people agree with me, but ERRA.
> 
> Impulse was amazing, Augment was equally as good, but you could tell they were starting to decline with Moments of Clarity. I enjoyed that EP, but they started to lose their technicality and uniqueness with it.
> 
> ...



I'll agree with this. I only listen to the stuff with Garrett, and the one EP they did right after he left. I've listened to one song off of Drift and had no desire to seek out the rest. Just wasn't doing anything for me.


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## Duosphere (Sep 11, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Listen to Operation: Mindcrime, then listen to Dedicated to Chaos. Or Master of Puppets and Death Magnetic.
> 
> Yes, there is an objectively better and objectively worse.





But some people prefer Dedicated Chaos and Death Magnetic.
I prefer Empire and Black Album.
No better or worse.
Some even prefer ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKR2n-G-wdM


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## Nag (Sep 11, 2016)

OP : Like 99% of bands in existence

/thread


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## extendedsolo (Sep 11, 2016)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Good call on Slipknot, they fell off a cliff after Iowa, which I still think is one of the greatest albums of all time.



I actually really liked Vol 3, but yea their last 2 have been really meh. A couple of really good songs on the last 2 albums and then nothing really that interests me. I think for them though it's one of two things. They don't really like metal all that much anymore, which is possible! The guitar players have been well known to prefer jimi hendrix and the beatles to something like cannibal corpse. Or they do it because they are looking to stay relevant and in the mainstream. Which for 9 guys from Iowa who grew up lower middle class, not out the of the question.


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## wankerness (Sep 11, 2016)

Vol 3 was where a lot of people took notice of them as being more than an adolescent attempt to shock. I never listened to anything later, but I definitely got a lot of play out of Vol 3 and a lot of my prog-nerd friends that scorned them actually liked the album as well.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2016)

Nagash said:


> OP : Like 99% of bands in existence
> 
> /thread



Basically. 

I really like The Gray Chapter. Vol 3 and All Hope Is Gone is meh, although All Hope is Gone gave us my favorite Slipknot songs. 



The video of Mick tracking this song is ....ing insane, too.


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## Zalbu (Sep 11, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Surprised Iced Earth hasn't been brought up. Everything after Horror Show (and some people even hate that album ) has been a snoozefest.
> 
> Dream Theater as well. First 3 album (.... you guys I include their real debut ) are gold, and their next 2 (or 3) are awesome. Everything after that is eeeeehh. DT13 was a step in the right direction, same with The Astonishing, but everything between 2003 - 2013 was eeeew for me.
> 
> Queensryche was infamously bad for this. Kicked ass up until HITNF, when things got... weird. And it was just weirder from there. Some people will disagree, but I feel like they got back on track ever since Geoff was kicked out.


Even Octavarium and Systematic Chaos?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2016)

I always found Octavarium boring, and never really gave Systematic Chaos a full listen because I didn't like several of the songs I've heard from it.


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## BucketheadRules (Sep 11, 2016)

Bodom.

Agreed on DT as well, the only post-2000 albums of theirs that I consistently like are Train of Thought and Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I only like a couple of songs from Octavarium, I don't know Systematic that well, and I've barely even listened to the Mangini stuff because I found most of it so dull at first listen. And even those two consistently good albums have shonky lyrics and "meh" vocals.


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## wankerness (Sep 11, 2016)

The first detailed listen my friends and I gave Octavarium was the worst musical experience I've ever had. We were all depressed by the end! The only track I turned around on was Panic Attack, thanks to Rock Band.

I liked The Astonishing quite a bit the two times I listened to it. I guess we'll see if any more ever happen. There were a few corkers on the previous two albums, too, particularly "Bridges in the Sky." Come to think of it, I don't actually dislike any of their albums besides Octavarium, they just kind of go in one ear and out the other.


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## SD83 (Sep 11, 2016)

I have to strongly disagree on Slipknot. Vol.3 was boring and All hope is gone was worse, but to me, The Gray Chapter is easily their best record yet and has their best songs so far.
I'll add Vader. Impressions in blood might still be my favourite album of all times, but after that I lost track, just recently listened to one track from the new EP and it sounds like a really bad Slayer song...
+ 1 for Dream Theater, but then again, my favourite albums of theirs are Systematic Chaos and Octavarium. New stuff is not bad, but it's the stuff I tend to forget about almost while hearing.


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## extendedsolo (Sep 11, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Basically.
> 
> I really like The Gray Chapter. Vol 3 and All Hope Is Gone is meh, although All Hope is Gone gave us my favorite Slipknot songs.
> 
> ...




WOW. I love that song, but man that video should be shown to any band wanting to enter the studio. That's someone who has practiced a ton and is a true professional. I kinda get the vibe that him and Jim Root are very old school about recording.


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## gunch (Sep 11, 2016)

MikeH said:


> Whitechapel. This Is Exile was their pinnacle, in my opinion. The new stuff isn't bad, per se, but I'll never get into their newer stuff like I did TIE and The Somatic Defilement.



Agreed. Suicide Silence too.

Somatic Defilement remaster is turds, its like they ruined everything that made that album heavy as balls


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2016)

I see people say that Whitechapel's been going downhill since 2012. 

But honestly I find their self-titled and Our Endless War to be their 2 best albums. I love the death/groove metal feel they have. Mark of the Blade is a pretty big departure and a simpler sound, but .... man that album grooves. 

EDIT: The new album actually reminds me of Feared, which is a popular band to hate on, so I guess I can see why.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 11, 2016)

Xcaliber said:


> KoRn. I'm optimistic about the new album based on the first single though, I'm really digging it. Sounds a bit like the old stuff IMO.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2016)

+1 to Korn as well. Everything after Untouchables has been... bad. 

Paradigm Shift was a very, very needed shift in sound. The old-school Korn sound, but more up-to-date. The new songs are even sounding moreso like that.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Sep 12, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> +1 to Korn as well. Everything after Untouchables has been... bad.
> 
> Paradigm Shift was a very, very needed shift in sound. The old-school Korn sound, but more up-to-date. The new songs are even sounding moreso like that.



havent got to listen to the new album since head joined back up...have things improved? they were meh after he left imho.


*goes to find new album interwebz...


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## MFB (Sep 12, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Surprised Iced Earth hasn't been brought up. Everything after Horror Show (and some people even hate that album ) has been a snoozefest.



I always give them up until Glorious Burden, given that 33-minute trilogy is deserving of a mention. After that? Eh.


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## MikeH (Sep 12, 2016)

silverabyss said:


> Agreed. Suicide Silence too.
> 
> Somatic Defilement remaster is turds, its like they ruined everything that made that album heavy as balls



The original mix of TSD was super organic, and even though it wasn't the clearest of mixes, I think that's what gave it its edge. Same with The Cleansing by Suicide Silence. The raw mix just made it so much heavier.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2016)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> havent got to listen to the new album since head joined back up...have things improved? they were meh after he left imho.
> 
> 
> *goes to find new album interwebz...



There's a thread showing off 2 new songs. Like I said, sounds like Korn, but more up-to-date.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2016)

MFB said:


> I always give them up until Glorious Burden, given that 33-minute trilogy is deserving of a mention. After that? Eh.



Glorious Burden is pretty good, but it's when the band starts to get really, really boring. 

Jon needs to stop blowing Alex Jones and 'Murica and start writing epic speed metal again. Jon's a huge inspiration of mine but Jesus the more patriotic he gets, the worse the writing suffers.


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## Miek (Sep 12, 2016)

Not a big fan of Textures' latest work. The first 3 albums are fire


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## works0fheart (Sep 14, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The video of Mick tracking this song is ....ing insane, too.




Good lord. People, you can all say what you want about Slipknot, but there's some badass, tight riffing going on in that video. I never realized that album was that much more intricate than their previous material. Thanks for posting that.


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## Winspear (Sep 14, 2016)

Haken x10000
Can't beat Visions and Aquarius


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## M3CHK1LLA (Sep 23, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's a thread showing off 2 new songs. Like I said, sounds like Korn, but more up-to-date.



maybe i need to listen to it a few more times, but initially i couldnt get into it...

any song(s) i should really pay attention to?


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## vansinn (Sep 23, 2016)

Eluvetie 
I have most of their albums but the latest ones..


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## estabon37 (Sep 24, 2016)

Being that I'm way more into alt-rock than metal, I've often felt like I go against the grain on this site, but never more than when I read this thread. Mastodon has become one of my favourite bands over the last couple of years, but Remission does very little for me, and as much as I like Leviathan, I'd say I like all of the later albums more. I just don't listen to them as a metal band; I listen to them as particularly heavy rock band. In that context, they're fucking brilliant. 

The only two bands I can think of that I was a huge fan of at one point that I'm kind of embarrassed to admit now are Muse and Live. Muse was mentioned earlier: they opened with three (four?) quite strong albums, and then they seemed to try to reinvent themselves and totally shit the bed as a result. Drones was an improvement, but it can't really count as a recovery.

Live's descent was just fucking sad. Throwing Copper is to this day a great album; Secret Samadhi and The Distance to Here have some really solid moments as well. Then they just flat out stopped giving a shit V and Birds of Pray are really embarrassing attempts at making albums, particularly in the context of their earlier work. I didn't bother with album 7, after which the lead singer / songwriter 'went solo' to write super boring quasi-spiritual acoustic ditties, and the rest of the band hired a new singer in the hopes of beating a dead horse til it sprung back to life. In 2000 they performed one of the best stadium shows I've ever seen; by 2007 it was better to pretend they didn't exist.


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## ThePhilosopher (Sep 24, 2016)

Good call on Live.

Prince and Depeche Mode come to mind as well.


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## stuglue (Sep 24, 2016)

Hi guys, I thought I'd offer a different view point for you. I've never heard Opeth, until a week ago when I decided that I needed some new listening material for my holiday (is gotten bored with listening to the same stuff each time) so I went searching on the net and found Opeth Sorceress. So far I quite like it, I was expected lots of death metal vocals, but was surprised at the first track, normal vocals. Second track has more growl, the riffs are OK, nothing special. I may well with backwards through their back catalogue to see which are stand out albums.

As for DT, I was and still am a fan of Images and words even though the drums do sound like sample replacement hits. Awake was OK, Falling into Infinity was too patchy. I know a lot of guys love Scenes from a memory but I found it far too contrived, the band were attempting to doa metal The Wall concept album. Unfortunately from here on in they seem to write songs based around crazy guitar/keyboard shred offs and then tack on a few riffs.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 24, 2016)

stuglue said:


> The later you get into Opeth's catalog, the less death/black metal things get. It becomes more and more prog rock-y.


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## wankerness (Sep 24, 2016)

stuglue said:


> Hi guys, I thought I'd offer a different view point for you. I've never heard Opeth, until a week ago when I decided that I needed some new listening material for my holiday (is gotten bored with listening to the same stuff each time) so I went searching on the net and found Opeth Sorceress. So far I quite like it, I was expected lots of death metal vocals, but was surprised at the* first track, normal vocals. Second track has more growl,* the riffs are OK, nothing special. I may well with backwards through their back catalogue to see which are stand out albums.



Are you sure you were listening to the right album? The first track appears to be an intro track, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th were all released as singles and they DEFINITELY do not have any growling


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## stuglue (Sep 25, 2016)

wankerness said:


> Are you sure you were listening to the right album? The first track appears to be an intro track, but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th were all released as singles and they DEFINITELY do not have any growling



The track listing is as follows
1. Sorceress
2. Serenity painted Death
3. Into the forest of Winter
4. Bridge of Sighs
5. Demon of the Fall

Album is called Sorceress Principals.


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## wankerness (Sep 25, 2016)

stuglue said:


> The track listing is as follows
> 1. Sorceress
> 2. Serenity painted Death
> 3. Into the forest of Winter
> ...



:Facepalm:

1. From Sorceress
2. From Still Life
3. A demo from before they recorded any albums (assuming it's "Into the Frost of Winter")
4. A cover from Watershed era
5. From my arms your hearse

Who uploaded that where as "Sorceress Principals," and why, I have no idea!


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## stuglue (Sep 25, 2016)

wankerness said:


> :Facepalm:
> 
> 1. From Sorceress
> 2. From Still Life
> ...



Ah OK, so what albums would you recommend I start with from them?


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## MFB (Sep 25, 2016)

Go for Blackwater Park if you want peak Opeth, to me it has elements from all their earlier albums.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 26, 2016)

Sorceress isn't bad though nowhere near as good as Blackwater Park imo. I just saw that the Sword is touring with them so now I'm way more excited to see them live. Last time I tried to see them live they were in a bus crash and had to cancel (Mastodon's Hunter tour).


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## wankerness (Sep 26, 2016)

MFB said:


> Go for Blackwater Park if you want peak Opeth, to me it has elements from all their earlier albums.



Yeah, this is kind of the generic Opeth album. Ghost Reveries may be SLIGHTLY more accessible. I'd highly suggest avoiding the newer stuff (Heritage, Pale Communion, Sorceress) for a while unless you prefer it. Damnation is also an oddity.


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## Xaios (Sep 26, 2016)

wankerness said:


> Yeah, this is kind of the generic Opeth album. Ghost Reveries may be SLIGHTLY more accessible. I'd highly suggest avoiding the newer stuff (Heritage, Pale Communion, Sorceress) for a while unless you prefer it. Damnation is also an oddity.



I'd say "generic" isn't really the best term in this case, because it has a negative connotation. I'd be more inclined to say that it's their archetypal or most characteristic album.


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## wankerness (Sep 27, 2016)

Xaios said:


> I'd say "generic" isn't really the best term in this case, because it has a negative connotation. I'd be more inclined to say that it's their archetypal or most characteristic album.



Hey, they're all synonyms!! That's what I meant, though, and point taken.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Apr 18, 2017)

though i really like kse, i really like their first few albums are better imho


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