# Games that should get remade



## beerandbeards

How dope would it be to have a 3rd person open world Oregon Trail! You have to hunt, barter, deal with the loss and illness of your family. It could be timed to make it past the Rockies in a certain amount of time.

Just a random thought I had driving to work. What other old school games would you think could be wicked fun of remade to modern abilities?


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## MFB

Legend. 
of.
Dragoon.

For both PS4 and Xbox One


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## wankerness

Parasite Eve.

Silent Hill 3, MGS1 in HD and without throwing out the original voice acting.


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## TedEH

I find it funny to run into this thread right at this moment, as I was just thinking to myself that far too many video games are just re-makes of the same mechanics/stories/etc., let alone literal remakes. Not much is truly unique anymore - game design is extremely iterative.


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## Leviathus

wankerness said:


> MGS1 in HD and without throwing out the original voice acting.



This. MGS1-3 with the fox engine would be so awesome.


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## Descent

I for one miss Arcanoid


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## KnightBrolaire

Leviathus said:


> This. MGS1-3 with the fox engine would be so awesome.


Oh god yes. MGS3 is still my favorite in the series. All they'd have to do is update the graphics and controls imo.

I would love if they remade the old rainbow six/ghost recon games with their current engine. Ooh baby the destructibility would make it so much more fun imo.
I also desperately want a battlefield 2142 with modern destructibility (or you know, give us a ww2 game that's not revisionist alternate history bullshit).


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## Rosal76

beerandbeards said:


> Just a random thought I had driving to work. What other old school games would you think could be wicked fun of remade to modern abilities?



Hitman: Contracts (2004).

Predator: Concrete jungle (2005).

Resident evil: Outbreak 1 (2003) and 2 (2005).

First 3 Splinter Cell games.

Sniper Elite (2005) and Sniper Elite V2 (2012).


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## downburst82

Skitchin


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## wankerness

MGS2-3 and the mobile one got decent HD remakes. They're last generation now, but they are still fine. Based on most remakes that got released for last gen and again this gen, there'd barely be a noticeable improvement. It's just 1 that got a decent remake for Gamecube that I don't believe has been seen since, and it also had the huge (IMO) fault of ALL the voice acting being re-recorded. I hate it when they do that, so much, and it's an actual dealbreaker for me when dealing with a really dialogue-heavy game that I played through multiple times with the original voice acting.

Same thing happened with the Silent Hill 3 HD remake. 2 kept it all, IIRC, but 3 didn't! It's just too bad Konami has its claws in all of this stuff, since they have demonstrated again and again that they're far more interested in Pachinko machines than doing anything good with any of their licenses. MGS4 is also likely to never be released again. Apart from their feud with Kojima, I guess one issue with it was it used some specific PS3 gimmicks that wouldn't translate to other machines, like something about pressure-sensitive buttons. It's free on PS3 this next month, so if I ever get around to buying one for the handful of exclusives, I'll have that ready to go at least.

I can probably deal with the new Castlevania SOTN since there's so little of it and I usually skipped it anyway. Still, damn shame about the legendarily bad opening exchanges. I haven't bought it yet.


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## PunkBillCarson

I know that Capcom said they'll remake RE3 if the fans demand it and it didn't take long for them to find out whether they do or not (they do). For remakes, I would love The Legacy of Kain series to be remade or have a sequel, but at the same time, with some of the more notable voice talent having died or moved on to bigger things, I can't say it would happen or that it would be great if it did, so I guess it's fine as is. I guess if we're talking outright remakes, I'll take one for Gex.


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## TedEH

I think I'm going to take back what I said - I think Anachronox could use a remake. It's a game that feels like it had so much potential but just never went through the appropriate polish phases. It's just soooooo janky, but what's there was some great ideas. It would be less a remake-as-it-was, so much as taking the vision to completion.


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## mongey

Archon from C64 .loved that game


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## Seabeast2000

Mdk 1
Battlezone


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## spudmunkey

One Must Fall 2097
Megarace, starring Colin Mocrie as Lance Boyle 
Panzer Dragoon


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## Carrion Rocket

The Legacy of Kain series


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## PunkBillCarson

Carrion Rocket said:


> The Legacy of Kain series



Glad to see someone feels this way, though like mentioned before, I do have reservations about it. The original series was just so damn underrated in terms of story telling and exploration.


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## wankerness

Lok soul reaver got a ton of attention at the time, and I think even got ported to a higher format (maybe it was Dreamcast though), but yeah haven’t seen it mentioned in years. I remember liking it for a while, don’t remember how far I got. I think it may have been the most technically impressive psx game at the time.


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## Ralyks

I came in here to say Legacy of Kain and Parasite Eve, and was beaten to the punch on both.

Ummm..... Jumping Flash?

Actually, full on remakes of Revelations: Persona and both Persona 2 games (maybe find a way to make the one big game?) sounds neat right about now. And maybe port Persona 3 FES and Persona 4 Golden to current consoles.

Oh, and seriously, just take WWF No Mercy, Change it to the current WWE roster and I'll be good for a long time.


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## Bloody_Inferno

TedEH said:


> I find it funny to run into this thread right at this moment, as I was just thinking to myself that far too many video games are just re-makes of the same mechanics/stories/etc., let alone literal remakes. Not much is truly unique anymore - game design is extremely iterative.



For the most part I do agree. Especially with the ton of remakes, reboots, kickstarters that's keeping certain franchises afloat. But with some remakes being awesome lately, I guess it's some way to preserve this quickly evolving medium. Resident Evil 2 is probably the best current example of how to remake a game with love. The Yakuza Kiwami remakes can be added too, as with the recent revived platformers like Strider, Bionic Commando REARMED - not that 3D one with the dumbest twist in history (sorry Mike Patton).

That said... ooh boy where to start? 

Seiken Densetsu 3 would be the top of my list. Since Secret of Mana got reconstructed from the ground up, SD3 has yet to be properly released outside Japan, throw us a bone here Square Enix, but at least do it right unlike said Mana remake.

And from the Enix side, any of the 3 Blazer trilogy games (Soul Blazer, Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma), or at least a spiritual sequel like they tried with The Granstream Saga but with more recurring themes.

And perhaps a ton of other JRPGs of the time like Treasure Hunter G, the first 2 Star Oceans, the Lufia games etc.

EDIT: With Katamari Damacy recently getting the Reroll treatment, there was a missed opportunity with adding it's sequel We Love Katamari as a bundle. Which is a shame, despite being pretty much the same exact game, the sequel was much more refined and definitely more challenging than the original.

EDIT 2: Bloody hell I won't be able to stop at this rate.  Add Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on N64 to the list.


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## Xaios

spudmunkey said:


> One Must Fall 2097


Hoooleeee crap. Never expected to think about that game again.


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## Bloody_Inferno

Another one:

Street Fighter 1. Seriously.

The game is nigh unplayable nowadays and Capcom have proven that they can do a good remake when required. So what better candidate than the original SF, also the only game in the series that hasn't been repeatedly over refined. Make every character playable, add some new gimmick or 2 and tart it up like the Alpha series so it still has the spirit of a classic game.


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## PunkBillCarson

I mean if we're talking about Capcom doing more remakes, then let's throw in Breath of Fire while we're at it.


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## Bloody_Inferno

PunkBillCarson said:


> I mean if we're talking about Capcom doing more remakes, then let's throw in Breath of Fire while we're at it.



I'll be happy with at least a sequel with the township mechanic from 2.


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## chopeth

wankerness said:


> Parasite Eve.



looooved that one so much!!


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## KnightBrolaire

Bloody_Inferno said:


> For the most part I do agree. Especially with the ton of remakes, reboots, kickstarters that's keeping certain franchises afloat. But with some remakes being awesome lately, I guess it's some way to preserve this quickly evolving medium. Resident Evil 2 is probably the best current example of how to remake a game with love. The Yakuza Kiwami remakes can be added too, as with the recent revived platformers like Strider, Bionic Commando REARMED - not that 3D one with the dumbest twist in history (sorry Mike Patton).
> 
> That said... ooh boy where to start?
> 
> Seiken Densetsu 3 would be the top of my list. Since Secret of Mana got reconstructed from the ground up, SD3 has yet to be properly released outside Japan, throw us a bone here Square Enix, but at least do it right unlike said Mana remake.
> 
> And from the Enix side, any of the 3 Blazer trilogy games (Soul Blazer, Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma), or at least a spiritual sequel like they tried with The Granstream Saga but with more recurring themes.
> 
> And perhaps a ton of other JRPGs of the time like Treasure Hunter G, the first 2 Star Oceans, the Lufia games etc.
> 
> EDIT: With Katamari Damacy recently getting the Reroll treatment, there was a missed opportunity with adding it's sequel We Love Katamari as a bundle. Which is a shame, despite being pretty much the same exact game, the sequel was much more refined and definitely more challenging than the original.
> 
> EDIT 2: Bloody hell I won't be able to stop at this rate.  Add Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on N64 to the list.


Goemon was awesome, same with Katamari Damacy.
I'd add in the Tenchu series and Power Stone. Both of those desperately need to be modernized and remade imo


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## Ralyks

Bloody_Inferno said:


> EDIT 2: Bloody hell I won't be able to stop at this rate.  Add Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on N64 to the list.



Fuck. Yes. I LOVED this game.


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## GatherTheArsenal

Duck Hunt.

I'm a simple man 



KnightBrolaire said:


> Goemon was awesome, same with Katamari Damacy.
> I'd add in the Tenchu series and Power Stone. Both of those desperately need to be modernized and remade imo



Tenchu is so sorely missed, I constantly hope I'll see a reboot or at least a port someday. I pretty much keep my 360 around partly because of Tenchu Z.

Though with the upcoming releases of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice and Ghost of Tsushima I hope those two do well enough in terms of sales and general interest in them for whoever owns the Tenchu IP rights to notice and go hey maybe now is the right time to go for it.


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## TedEH

KnightBrolaire said:


> Goemon was awesome


Was it really though? I remember playing this one a long time ago and it was floaty and awkward to control (as was standard for n64-era 2.5d platformers :lol). I didn't hate it by any stretch, but I don't understand why it has such a following now. It's got like some cult status thing going on right now.


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## Ralyks

Goemon also beat Ocarina of Time to the punch.
Not saying that's why I love it. I'd have to go back and play it again, but at the time, I absolutely adore it.


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## wankerness

Most fully-3D N64 games aged like milk. But, they're appropriate for a thread about REMAKES, since they could probably be fixed with modern control handling and hit detection and be fun. 

The Rare ones mostly still have reasonable controls, surprisingly enough. Diddy Kong Racing, DK 64, Banjo-Kazooie* have big issues, obviously, but you don't feel like you're fighting the controls actively unlike a floaty disaster of the time period like Shadows of the Empire. Which would be awesome if remade and the controls were fixed, BTW. We need Star Wars games that aren't garbage online shooters. I hate EA so much for sitting on that license and doing NOTHING good with it and blocking anyone else from doing anything with it, especially since there were a couple interesting games in development that EA shitcanned in favor of a second garbage online shooter.

One of the few N64 games that's held up pretty well is Blast Corps. I'd love to see that game again. It's one of the few things I'll play when I dig out the ol' system. 

Well, I guess I wouldn't love to see it that much, since it would be an Xbox exclusive and I'm not buying one of those this generation. 

*I haven't played it, but I watched my friend play through the Xbox 360 HD version of Banjo Kazooie 2 and that looked like a really good remaster/remake. I dunno how much they changed it beyond the HD graphics, but I'm guessing they tweaked the controls quite a bit. Their Perfect Dark remake on the same system was brilliant and was easily the shooter I played the most, it was vastly superior to the new Perfect Dark game.


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## TedEH

I suppose I didn't see there being enough of value in it to be worth fixing/modernizing Goemon in particular. It's one thing to say something like Perfect Dark was great in it's time and currently shows it's age, but I didn't find Goemon to be very good even in the context of the time it came out - and I'm very much one to try to take things within that context. I actually played through Perfect Dark recently and I still think it holds up fine.

I'm curious what you'd say the big issues are with something like Diddy Kong Racing. Haven't played it in a long time, but I remember that one being great. I'd probably rather play that than any modern racing game - Mario Karts included.


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## ThtOthrPrsn

Need for Speed Underground 2
Midnight Club 3
If we can't get a new one, then a remastered Battlefield Bad Company 2!!


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## Bloody_Inferno

TedEH said:


> Was it really though? I remember playing this one a long time ago and it was floaty and awkward to control (as was standard for n64-era 2.5d platformers :lol). I didn't hate it by any stretch, but I don't understand why it has such a following now. It's got like some cult status thing going on right now.



At the time, or even before that there was nothing like the Ganbare Goemon series. It was a miracle the first SNES Goemon was even localised at all, being neck deep in the anime quirks and historical stuff. Of course this was also a time when localising Japanese games were to heavily alter them Samurai Pizza Cats style. It's no big deal now, but back when anime was a rarity, finding and playing these were a small miracle.

The N64 Goemon (at least the first one) was much more faithful. But it's because of those quirks not found in other games is what gained a cult following. Sure the Zelda games were much tighter and less janky, but Link certainly have a giant robot with his own theme song, or explore a submarine with an interior made entirely of ramen ingredients. Yeah I'm preaching anime quirks as good game design to somebody who has a peeve with anime, but whatever. 

I thought each Goemon game had it's fun special charm. But most were tough 2D Contra esque affairs, even the N64 sequel decided to go back into 2D, but admittedly the 2D games looked much better, since as stated, every 3D game during the 5th gen console era looks like butthole nowadays. So it's probably the best candidate to merit a full remake.


And of course that's all pipedream as the Goemon Series are made by Konami. And we all know how Konami treat their properties in this day and age.



Speaking of early 3D games that's aged like dirty underwear, the most recent glaring example of ageing terribly is having Shenmue released on Steam. Just have Sega give the Shenmue rights to Ryu Ga Gotoku Studios and rebuild 1, 2 and release 3 with the Dragon Engine. Sure it won't change most of the boring stuff (namely the main character), but at least most of the game can be salvaged. Either that, or at least we can always find solace knowing that certain remakes and franchise revivals/reboots are inevitable as long as there's nostalgia driven fans and a kickstarter to throw their money at.


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## KnightBrolaire

the only good part of shenmue was the fighting system


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## Bloody_Inferno

KnightBrolaire said:


> the only good part of shenmue was the fighting system



And even that hasn't aged well with the very existence of the Yakuza games.


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## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I'm curious what you'd say the big issues are with something like Diddy Kong Racing. Haven't played it in a long time, but I remember that one being great. I'd probably rather play that than any modern racing game - Mario Karts included.



Well of course YOU would, Mr. Retro!  I played it about 3 years ago with a couple friends and it was painful. It's mainly just really slow and unresponsive.


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## TedEH

wankerness said:


> Mr. Retro!




Diddy Kong Racing I think was the first N64 game I had as a kid. I played an insane amount of that game and so that's what felt "right" in a cart-style racer, and the Mario Kart style controls have never felt right to me by comparison. Vaguely on-topic: there was a remake of that one for the DS, but I remember hearing it wasn't a very good remake.

Edit:
I also remember the characters in that one all handling pretty differently, if that makes any difference. Now I want to go out and find another copy of Diddy Kong.


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## wankerness

TedEH said:


> Diddy Kong Racing I think was the first N64 game I had as a kid. I played an insane amount of that game and so that's what felt "right" in a cart-style racer, and the Mario Kart style controls have never felt right to me by comparison. Vaguely on-topic: there was a remake of that one for the DS, but I remember hearing it wasn't a very good remake.
> 
> Edit:
> I also remember the characters in that one all handling pretty differently, if that makes any difference. Now I want to go out and find another copy of Diddy Kong.



Oh, they definitely did, but that's still a thing with the Mario Karts, and functions pretty much identically. However, it had planes/jetskis/carts that all handled VERY differently, which Mario Kart 8 kind of glosses over with its jetskis and carts feeling much the same and the only flying limited to going over big bumps and a parachute coming out. It also had boss fights which were infuriating but kind of a cool idea.


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## Konfyouzd

Onimusha Warlords
Tenchu Stealth Assassins
Mass Effect 3 (Hahahahahahaha)


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## Ralyks

Konfyouzd said:


> Onimusha Warlords



A remaster just came out for this, and apparently isn't that good for what I've heard.


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## Ordacleaphobia

Final Fantasy *SEVEEEEEEEEEEENNN*. God_DAMMIT_ Square, hurry up already! Don't blue ball me for years like this!
World of Warcraft. I've been saying for years they need to end WoW and relaunch the Classic WoW story arc / world state on a new engine with modern updates and literally just restart the game over again. 

I'm on board with Parasite Eve.
I'd also get hype for a relaunch of Mario Kart Double Dash on Switch with GC/Pro controller support, and hopefully more tracks and courses because Double Dash is *still *the best Mario Kart.


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## Konfyouzd

Ralyks said:


> A remaster just came out for this, and apparently isn't that good for what I've heard.


Way to piss on my dreams


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## wankerness

Ralyks said:


> A remaster just came out for this, and apparently isn't that good for what I've heard.



Jim Sterling, who according to some here hates everything, LOVED the remaster and said it held up really well for a remaster that doesn't really have any bells and whistles added.


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## dr_game0ver

Body Harvest.


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## wankerness

dr_game0ver said:


> Body Harvest.



I played through that game till Siberia at which point I lost interest (well, other than running over zombies with a combine). It's clunky as all get-out, and was even for the time. I don't think I could take it unless they radically edited it! It had a great concept, though.


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## spudmunkey

Warcraft III. Can't wait!


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## dr_game0ver

Urban Chaos, Tomb Raider 2 to 4, Dino Crisis, Colony Wars...


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## Kaura

Resident Evil 2

Yes, I'm still salty they didn't make it with fixed camera angles.


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## KnightBrolaire

Kaura said:


> Resident Evil 2
> 
> Yes, I'm still salty they didn't make it with fixed camera angles.


fuck fixed camera angles


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## Kaura

KnightBrolaire said:


> fuck fixed camera angles



I wouldn't want them for any other game but they were a crucial part about Resident Evil games right from the beginning and since Capcom decided to do a remake then they should've paid some respect towards the original game instead of just making it casual cashgrab garbage. But that's just my opinion.


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## Bloody_Inferno

Kaura said:


> I wouldn't want them for any other game but they were a crucial part about Resident Evil games right from the beginning and since Capcom decided to do a remake then they should've paid some respect towards the original game instead of just making it casual cashgrab garbage. But that's just my opinion.



Eh. Capcom had already messed around with the RE formula by releasing Dead Aim. At least ditching fixed camera angles gave way to Resident Evil 4.

If Capcom should remake an RE game, remake Resident Evil 6 and put an actual good game in it.


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## KnightBrolaire

Kaura said:


> I wouldn't want them for any other game but they were a crucial part about Resident Evil games right from the beginning and since Capcom decided to do a remake then they should've paid some respect towards the original game instead of just making it casual cashgrab garbage. But that's just my opinion.


fixed camera angles and tank controls went the way of the dodo for a reason. They suck.


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## Bloody_Inferno

KnightBrolaire said:


> fixed camera angles and tank controls went the way of the dodo for a reason. They suck.



I don't mind janky golf cart controls when the characters are regular people like in the Silent Hill games, but when your character can German suplex at will or punch boulders harder than Jesus, then I sure want them to play better.


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## Kaura

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I don't mind janky golf cart controls when the characters are regular people like in the Silent Hill games, but when your character can German suplex at will or punch boulders harder than Jesus, then I sure want them to play better.



Damn, didn't know you could throw some suplexes in PS1 era Resident Evil games. You gotta teach me!


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## wankerness

Kaura said:


> I wouldn't want them for any other game but they were a crucial part about Resident Evil games right from the beginning and since Capcom decided to do a remake then they should've paid some respect towards the original game instead of just making it casual cashgrab garbage. But that's just my opinion.



If it was cash grab garbage they’d have kept it the same (ex, the ffix “remaster”) instead of rebuilding it from the ground up with huge production costs. If you want fixed camera angle tank control the original is still there!


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## thedonal

I'm going to add to the noise on Legacy of Kain series. In fairness, I only played Soul Reaver. But that game was amaaaaaaaaazing! Had it on Dreamcast- bump mapping on the visuals even outshone the other versions. 

What a game- great atmosphere, story and even the music was amazing. I played it through loads of times looking for the secret bits and just to play it again!


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## Bloody_Inferno

Here's a big one:

Xenogears

Sure everyone involved has since moved on, but it'd be ripe to have Square Enix dust off the cobwebs and bring this dead property back to life and fix everything wrong about the original.

First the small things: Overhaul the graphics so every 5th gen console reminder is out the door, namely make the gears look like actual mecha without the polygon pixel mess. Overhaul the field system, either refine it so jumping puzzles don't suck especially with the useless camer, or full overhaul to 3D third person. Battle system, give or take. It's sort of fine, but it'd also be cool to see it as a fast paced grid system like the old school Tales series. Soundtrack can stay the same. Maybe more songs depending on that big problem. Speaking of which...

The big problem: the entire second half of the game (disc 2). It's no secret the development budget wasn't big enough for Tetsuya Takahashi's insane ambition, resorting to the entire second half becoming a freaking montage, told in the vein of the last TV episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion using children's dolls and text dumps. I appreciate the 'pretentious artsy' approach in a mad rush to finish the game (since the story is all pretentiousness), but with a remake, putting some substantial content like say, a game, would certainly help in enhancing the story. 

And get Monolith Soft to develop it. Goes without saying really. 

Yeah everything I said is pipe dreaming and zero chances of happening, but it'd be nice to see this ridiculous story told without restrictions or whatever the hell Xenosaga was doing.


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## cwhitey2

The FPS Black for ps2.

To this day, one of the best shooters ever created. And when it came out it was mind blowing.


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## PunkBillCarson

RE2 as it is now is amazing. Fuck fixed camera angles, that shit is played out. If you want that, go play the original RE2. There's mods for it.


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## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Here's a big one:
> 
> Xenogears
> 
> Sure everyone involved has since moved on, but it'd be ripe to have Square Enix dust off the cobwebs and bring this dead property back to life and fix everything wrong about the original.
> 
> First the small things: Overhaul the graphics so every 5th gen console reminder is out the door, namely make the gears look like actual mecha without the polygon pixel mess. Overhaul the field system, either refine it so jumping puzzles don't suck especially with the useless camer, or full overhaul to 3D third person. Battle system, give or take. It's sort of fine, but it'd also be cool to see it as a fast paced grid system like the old school Tales series. Soundtrack can stay the same. Maybe more songs depending on that big problem. Speaking of which...
> 
> The big problem: the entire second half of the game (disc 2). It's no secret the development budget wasn't big enough for Tetsuya Takahashi's insane ambition, resorting to the entire second half becoming a freaking montage, told in the vein of the last TV episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion using children's dolls and text dumps. I appreciate the 'pretentious artsy' approach in a mad rush to finish the game (since the story is all pretentiousness), but with a remake, putting some substantial content like say, a game, would certainly help in enhancing the story.
> 
> And get Monolith Soft to develop it. Goes without saying really.
> 
> Yeah everything I said is pipe dreaming and zero chances of happening, but it'd be nice to see this ridiculous story told without restrictions or whatever the hell Xenosaga was doing.



Dead property? Aren't the current Xenosaga games tied to it?


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## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> Dead property? Aren't the current Xenosaga games tied to it?



Nope. Well they're tied only through generally the same development team trying to retell the story started with the Perfect Works book from scratch and founded Monolith Soft to do so. 

Aside from a recent (and awesome) 20th anniversary concert, Squenix have done nothing new with the property.


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## Ralyks

Anyone else remember when Xenosaga was suppose to be like a decade long and 6 total games, and instead they abandoned shipped and just ended it at 3 games in like half the time? Good times...


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## Bloody_Inferno

So it turns out Zelda: Link's Awakening is getting fully remade for the Switch. Good move as the game was solid and tightly designed. 



Ralyks said:


> Anyone else remember when Xenosaga was suppose to be like a decade long and 6 total games, and instead they abandoned shipped and just ended it at 3 games in like half the time? Good times...



I did.  So much promise, so little delivery.

Ironically, the soundtrack to the first game is my favorite album of all time.


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## Ralyks

Bloody_Inferno said:


> So it turns out Zelda: Link's Awakening is getting fully remade for the Switch. Good move as the game was solid and tightly designed.
> 
> 
> 
> I did.  So much promise, so little delivery.
> 
> Ironically, the soundtrack to the first game is my favorite album of all time.



Oh I would play the shit out of a Link's Awakening remake. That was my JAM as far as Game Boy goes.

That first game did have amazing music.....and 45 minute cut scenes. Yeah, I bought into the hype for Xenosaga, then never even finished the first game. I will say, as long as they're "remastering" or at least releasing games from PS2 on PS4, I'd grab a Xenosaga collection, sure.

EDIT: OH MY GOD GIVE THIS TO ME NOW!!!!
https://www.ign.com/videos/2019/02/...akening-nintendo-switch-remake-reveal-trailer


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## Bloody_Inferno

Ralyks said:


> That first game did have amazing music.....and 45 minute cut scenes. Yeah, I bought into the hype for Xenosaga, then never even finished the first game. I will say, as long as they're "remastering" or at least releasing games from PS2 on PS4, I'd grab a Xenosaga collection, sure.



The more I think about the Xenosaga games the more of the fact that the Xeno franchise pre Xenoblade (more on that later) has been cursed from the beginning. It was history repeating itself. Xenogears got shot in the kneecaps from budget restraints unable to tell it's ambitious yet overbloated story (gears was supposed to be Chapter 5 ). And with the mulligan of trying to retell the entire Perfect Works book "properly" gets capped again by falling under it's own weight. Hence why Ep3 was going for the mad rush of trying to cram in as much story as possible. That and the fact that the focus of story over gameplay made the games crap certainly didn't help. 

The new Xenoblade games don't suffer the Xeno curse namely because they were never meant to be Xeno games to begin with, and much more fun to play.  That was Satoru Iwata rebranding the first game as Xenoblade to honor Takahashi's dedication. There's still some subtle callbacks for spiritual similarity's sake. There's always a stoic long haired martial arts dude with a sword, and all the Nopons are certainly a nod to Chu Chu. And adding giant mecha robots (that transform no less) in X was an excellent move.


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## broj15

I'm probably a minority as isometric turn based strategy rpg's are a pretty niche thing, but I'd love to see square do a TRUE sequal/remake of final fantasy tactics (yes I'm aware of the remake for the psp). If it was a remake I'd expect vastly improved graphic (if I change my armor or weapon I want to see that I've done so), some new jobs (onion knight and dark Knight are cool, but give me some jobs from FFTA 1 & 2 like the fencer, fighter, spell blade, etc.) along with some cool side quests/new game+ allowing access to new items. Also online pvp would be cool, but they'd have to alter the formulas within the game to make it harder to break, since it would be pretty boring if everyone had been ninja levelling/doing the time mage/summoner set up.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

I'd like to see a remake of the original single player Star Wars - Knights Of The Old Republic games.


----------



## Anquished

Silent Bomber from the PS1 days.


----------



## Steinmetzify

PunkBillCarson said:


> For remakes, I would love The Legacy of Kain series to be remade or have a sequel.



So much this.


----------



## Ralyks

It's criminal that the Legacy of Kain franchise has been dormant forever. I want to know what Raziel is up to dammit!


----------



## PunkBillCarson

It's a shame how underrated that series is. At the time, you could arguably say that very few games were able to match the perfect combination of gameplay and storytelling and also gave vampires a huge injection of badassery.


----------



## Qweklain

So I want to ask because some people seem to use remade/re-master interchangeably, but they are _*not*_ the same.

*Re-master*: the original game as it is, but just updated graphics and other minor things, but the game is still as it originally was. (E.g.; Secret of Mana)
*Remake*: Using the original game as the baseline and retain a variable percentage of elements (gameplay, story, battle style), but greatly altering those and/or other elements from the original. (E.g.; Zelda: Links Awakening, Metroid Samus Returns, Final Fantasy VII)

With that said, I will add my "short" list...

Alundra (rather have a new one since this is perfection, but not like Alundra 2)
Brave Fencer Musashi
Chrono Trigger
Dino Crisis 1 & 2
Final Fantasy VI (FF6 >> FF7 )
Grandia (preferably just a new one)
King's Field 1 & 2 (or just a new one)
Landstalker
Parasite Eve 1 & 2 (or just a new one like these, not like 3rd Birthday)
Secret of Evermore
Tales of Destiny 1 & 2


----------



## TedEH

I find the line between remaster and remake to be pretty blurry though -> It's sort of the whole "how many parts can you replace before you have a new car" thing.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

TedEH said:


> I find the line between remaster and remake to be pretty blurry though -> It's sort of the whole "how many parts can you replace before you have a new car" thing.




Remake is adding whole new plotlines, rearranging existing stuff, taking some stuff away and adding it.

Remaster is making everything that already exists prettier. The line shouldn't be all that blurry.


----------



## wankerness

PunkBillCarson said:


> Remake is adding whole new plotlines, rearranging existing stuff, taking some stuff away and adding it.
> 
> Remaster is making everything that already exists prettier. The line shouldn't be all that blurry.



Yup, essentially a remaster is using the existing assets as much as possible and leaving nearly everything intact. The only "gray area" is with the handful of older games like say, FFX HD where they replaced the character models entirely to make it look a hell of a lot better than a true PS2 "remaster" like Kingdom Hearts where you have the same puny polygon counts blown up to high resolution. The gameplay's completely intact on FFX, though, it was just a matter of character models. Same thing happened with Arkham Asylum IIRC - they had to toss out the FMV cutscenes and do them with in-game models, but the same stuff all still happens and the gameplay is all identical and I believe they used all the same models.


----------



## TedEH

PunkBillCarson said:


> The line shouldn't be all that blurry.


So many lines shouldn't be blurry, but are, because everyone comes up with their own "obvious interpretation that everyone should be using".


----------



## PunkBillCarson

TedEH said:


> So many lines shouldn't be blurry, but are, because everyone comes up with their own "obvious interpretation that everyone should be using".



I mean in this case, it's pretty clear cut.


----------



## TedEH

PunkBillCarson said:


> I mean in this case, it's pretty clear cut.


Like I said...... Lol. Everyone has their own idea of the very obviously correct interpretation.


----------



## wankerness

PunkBillCarson said:


> I mean in this case, it's pretty clear cut.



Yep. I'd like to see an example of a game that's really a "gray area." I can't think of any. Things like the most recent version of Shadow of the Colossus compared to the HD version from the last generation are a very good example of the difference.



TedEH said:


> Like I said...... Lol. Everyone has their own idea of the very obviously correct interpretation.



I'm starting to feel that in this discussion you're just trying to obfuscate - what game(s) has/have you confused?


----------



## TedEH

I'd put something like the 3ds remakes of the Zelda games in that grey area. At first glance it looks like everything was just made to look a bit nicer (It's a remaster!) but if you dig a little farther you realize that parts of it have been either heavily tweaked or potentially re-implemented entirely (Maybe a remake...?). Same with the Diddy Kong Racing remake. It's 80% the same, but a bunch of new things were added, some mechanics altered, etc..
There are lots of things in between "some visuals were updated" and "we started from scratch".


----------



## Qweklain

So I want to add one more. It was going to be two, but I just learned that they are remastering MediEvil!!

Suikoden 1 & 2


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I'd put something like the 3ds remakes of the Zelda games in that grey area. At first glance it looks like everything was just made to look a bit nicer (It's a remaster!) but if you dig a little farther you realize that parts of it have been either heavily tweaked or potentially re-implemented entirely (Maybe a remake...?). Same with the Diddy Kong Racing remake. It's 80% the same, but a bunch of new things were added, some mechanics altered, etc..
> There are lots of things in between "some visuals were updated" and "we started from scratch".



Hmm, OK, I will admit total ignorance on all of those. You very well may have a point here! Which Zelda games have 3DS remakes?

They probably get referred to with the blanket term "PORT" which can refer to either. I guess it makes it so no one ever thinks to try to distinguish between the two or has this mental struggle.  The few Nintendo ports that I've played tend to add a bunch of bonus material and change up the control scheme on top of maybe redoing the graphics. (IE Mario 64 DS). 

I guess there's a sliding scale with a gray area, you win!  There's a ton of stuff that's definitively on one side or the other, though. I guess it doesn't matter for this thread as long as you don't take the thread title too seriously.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal

cwhitey2 said:


> The FPS Black for ps2.
> 
> To this day, one of the best shooters ever created. And when it came out it was mind blowing.



Oooh yes! I remember staying up trying to beat one of the levels with my cousin. Such a great game, seems to have gone under so many radars though? Or is that just my perception?


----------



## cwhitey2

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Oooh yes! I remember staying up trying to beat one of the levels with my cousin. Such a great game, seems to have gone under so many radars though? Or is that just my perception?


I think you are correct. I feel like it was ahead of its time. It would have been a great online game, but back then there wasnt the online community for ps2 like we have today. PC's were dominating online play. 


Not to go off topic, but since we are talking online games now. Day of Defeat was the shit. Miss that game so much...and it was online only.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> They probably get referred to with the blanket term "PORT" which can refer to either.


Except that, no - a port is a specific term for taking an existing piece of software and making it work on another platform or under different circumstances. What's being called here a "remaster" is usually, on some level, a port. (Source: It's part of what I do for a living.)

What games journalism calls "a port" stems from a lack of understanding of how software is developed.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> Except that, no - a port is a specific term for taking an existing piece of software and making it work on another platform or under different circumstances. What's being called here a "remaster" is usually, on some level, a port. (Source: It's part of what I do for a living.)
> 
> What games journalism calls "a port" stems from a lack of understanding of how software is developed.



I know how port is used, and what it means, I meant that to avoid having to identify what something is gaming journalists/gamers use that blanket term. Man, let's just let this rest. MOSTLY, it's obvious what a remaster vs a remake is, and yes, things can appear in the gray area according to your nintendo examples, and I'm not really sure why it matters anyway! I'll take either. 

I am disappointed by those slapdash PS1 ports ala FFIX where they just throw the original backgrounds in at PS1 resolution with the character models looking much better. At least they don't label them remasters! I read some speculation as to why they hadn't done that with FFVIII yet. It's too bad, I'd really like to replay that game and don't really want to depend on my rickety old PS2 and PS1 memory card/scratched old discs working all the way through. But, better that than playing it on PC!


----------



## TedEH

For the purposes of this conversation, it doesn't really matter -> But viewing things from the inside out, there's so much misunderstanding about how games actually work and get made out there that it's really grating, and sometimes leads gaming conversions/debates into some very ignorant territory. Games get judged on entirely unfair terms, IMO. But anyway.

What I feel like I'd appreciate more than these kinds of remakes or remasters would be..... maintaining things to continue to work on modern platforms. It's one thing to throw together a dosbox setup for a game and sell that, but what about games for older versions of windows? Games where the lighting methods aren't supported anymore because PC video hardware has changed too much? Games that relied on outdated components that aren't available anymore? The first two Splinter Cell games are still good games, except that the lighting doesn't work properly anymore which breaks the stealth mechanics. I've got some old Windows 3.1 and 95 games that relied on now-ancient versions of QuickTime that you'd have to jump through ridiculous virtualization hoops to play. I know there's definitely some efforts that get made to do this kind of thing (GoG!), but I'd love to see more of that kind of thing.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

TedEH said:


> For the purposes of this conversation, it doesn't really matter -> But viewing things from the inside out, there's so much misunderstanding about how games actually work and get made out there that it's really grating, and sometimes leads gaming conversions/debates into some very ignorant territory. Games get judged on entirely unfair terms, IMO.



I'm genuinely interested in that side of the spectrum. As I have said, personally I would prefer if all last gen consoles and games were properly preserved without resorting to dodgy emulators or nostalgia fueled kickstarters. In an industry moving at a speedy rate, it's a good way to measure the games that hold up or all the bad ideas that have been made. Nintendo at least have the right idea porting old games even if I don't agree with overcharging for Balloon Fight. But I digress.

Had this thread started 7 or so years ago, I'd pull out a short list based largely on nostalgia alone. But now even with some awareness of developers being rushed by their publishers to make release dates to the point of some games released unfinished, I'm more picky with my choices (for the most part). I chose Xenogears specifically because of its development woes preventing it from what it could be. But it could have also be a lot more bloated had too much time and budget had been spent. Conversely I chose Mana 2 for much more simpler reasons. It didn't get the international treatment for yonks and with the first Mana game remade, give SD3 the treatment but better.

While Final Fantasy 6 would be nice to get the remake 7 is getting, personally I think the game still holda up, and it's been rereleased enough times as is, even if each version has some imperfections. 

That and nostalgia is an incredibly deceiving and blinding mistress.


----------



## dhgrind

Clayfighter


----------



## Demiurge

^It wasn't the best gameplay-wise, but it was certainly a hoot because of the visuals.

Imagine an update where the stop-motion work was Nightmare Before Christmas level of quality. It would be prohibitively expensive to make but it would be awesome!


----------



## Ralyks

Isn't the reason FFVIII hasn't been ported or rereleased is because a bunch of the code is missing?
And having just restarted the PS4 port of FFIX and finished the first disc, my only real gripe with it is that it feels laggy at times. Looks nice otherwise.

At this point, I'd just take an FFVI port on PS4 with trophy support. Yeah, I'm that douche.


----------



## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I'm genuinely interested in that side of the spectrum. As I have said, personally I would prefer if all last gen consoles and games were properly preserved without resorting to dodgy emulators or nostalgia fueled kickstarters. In an industry moving at a speedy rate, it's a good way to measure the games that hold up or all the bad ideas that have been made. Nintendo at least have the right idea porting old games even if I don't agree with overcharging for Balloon Fight. But I digress.
> 
> Had this thread started 7 or so years ago, I'd pull out a short list based largely on nostalgia alone. But now even with some awareness of developers being rushed by their publishers to make release dates to the point of some games released unfinished, I'm more picky with my choices (for the most part). I chose Xenogears specifically because of its development woes preventing it from what it could be. But it could have also be a lot more bloated had too much time and budget had been spent. Conversely I chose Mana 2 for much more simpler reasons. It didn't get the international treatment for yonks and with the first Mana game remade, give SD3 the treatment but better.
> 
> While Final Fantasy 6 would be nice to get the remake 7 is getting, personally I think the game still holda up, and it's been rereleased enough times as is, even if each version has some imperfections.
> 
> That and nostalgia is an incredibly deceiving and blinding mistress.



Nintendo are by far the WORST at preserving their own history. They had a tiny trickle of virtual console games through the life of the Wii/Wii-U and they all went away with the Switch, which is also not backwards compatible. So now there's what, 10 NES games available? Plus the NES/SNES classic things, I guess. They're also completely draconian about emulators. Which like, fine, they're illegal, but with video games it's like if libraries had to toss out all their books every few years unless they're currently in-print. There are HUNDREDS of games for each system that Nintendo is never, ever going to reissue that are just going to be lost to the winds of time if not for emulators.

PS4 has that PSnow thing to cover a fair number of their back catalog games along with a pretty consistent stream of remasters of their "first party" games, and Xboxone, for all its faults, is doing an incredible job of preserving the back catalog of Xbox in a digital form that seems like it should continue existing going forward. Nintendo just doesn't seem to care.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> Nintendo are by far the WORST at preserving their own history. They had a tiny trickle of virtual console games through the life of the Wii/Wii-U and they all went away with the Switch, which is also not backwards compatible. So now there's what, 10 NES games available? Plus the NES/SNES classic things, I guess. They're also completely draconian about emulators. Which like, fine, they're illegal, but with video games it's like if libraries had to toss out all their books every few years unless they're currently in-print. There are HUNDREDS of games for each system that Nintendo is never, ever going to reissue that are just going to be lost to the winds of time if not for emulators.
> 
> PS4 has that PSnow thing to cover a fair number of their back catalog games along with a pretty consistent stream of remasters of their "first party" games, and Xboxone, for all its faults, is doing an incredible job of preserving the back catalog of Xbox in a digital form that seems like it should continue existing going forward. Nintendo just doesn't seem to care.



I said they had the right idea, I didn't say they were any good at it. 

I've already harped about Nintendo's history with not getting along with third party developers pre Switch so I don't expect a lot of the NES/SNES back catalogue being rereleased outside their usual first party stuff. No wonder everyone mods the mini consoles. Funny how easily tht can be done given Nintendo's stance on emulation.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> with video games it's like if libraries had to toss out all their books every few years unless they're currently in-print


The game preservation thing could be a whole thread/conversation on it's own, and I agree that games aren't always great at preserving it's history, but I don't know that I'd call that a good analogy if we're talking about retro games - I feel like that conversation pretends that all the cartridges aren't still out there in people's homes and circulating through various markets. The preservation argument always comes up in defense of emulating retro games that still work just fine if you still have them, but IMO your analogy works better for PC games - where hardware obsolescence, software updates, etc., mean that the copies you still have no longer work.

I honestly think the current state of games are in a worse position for preservation than they've ever been - all the worst things about modern gaming, the loot boxes, the always online components, mobile ports and mobile-only games, etc., mean that preservation will be not just a legal problem, but also much more of a technical one than it is now. Some day, when Fortnight is considered a retro-game, it's going to be impossible to play it in a comparable way.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

dhgrind said:


> Clayfighter





Demiurge said:


> ^It wasn't the best gameplay-wise, but it was certainly a hoot because of the visuals.
> 
> Imagine an update where the stop-motion work was Nightmare Before Christmas level of quality. It would be prohibitively expensive to make but it would be awesome!



Have the same companies that developed the Killer Instinct reboot (Double Helix/Iron Galaxy) and give Clayfighter the same love and make us forget the original's utter jankiness and we have ourselves a winner game.

EDIT: Speaking of fighting games...

Turtles Tournament Fighters.

That was already a great fighting game (one of the best Street Fighter clones of it's time) and it actually still holds up decently. But the thought of giving it to Arc Systems Works and getting a Dragon Ball FighterZ style treatment is too good to pass up. At least a sequel with more characters that missed out the first time (Bebop, Rocksteady, etc), and refine the SF style engine with the hybrid anime fighter (but without going overboard on the latter), sort of like Sengoku Basara X.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I think I said it way back in the other gaming thread, but I'd love a Primal Rage or War of the Monsters remake. There's something super satisfying about running around as a giant monster and beating the shit out of other monsters/ robots.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> The game preservation thing could be a whole thread/conversation on it's own, and I agree that games aren't always great at preserving it's history, but I don't know that I'd call that a good analogy if we're talking about retro games - I feel like that conversation pretends that all the cartridges aren't still out there in people's homes and circulating through various markets. The preservation argument always comes up in defense of emulating retro games that still work just fine if you still have them, but IMO your analogy works better for PC games - where hardware obsolescence, software updates, etc., mean that the copies you still have no longer work.
> 
> I honestly think the current state of games are in a worse position for preservation than they've ever been - all the worst things about modern gaming, the loot boxes, the always online components, mobile ports and mobile-only games, etc., mean that preservation will be not just a legal problem, but also much more of a technical one than it is now. Some day, when Fortnight is considered a retro-game, it's going to be impossible to play it in a comparable way.



PC games are almost all still playable via OS emulators, and they are very widely available either piracy-wise or through GOG. You don't need to actually dig up a 486 to play games that were written around that hardware. Kind of like Console emulators, only much more sanctioned!

The thing with cartridges/old CDs is more that you need an increasing pile of obsolete hardware to make them WORK, and old consoles are failing more and more with less and less ability to fix them. Not to mention having to keep around a CRT to get proper results. If you have a top loading NES, sure, you're probably good for a while, but working standard ones are probably going to be a rare breed at some point. At least Nintendo's build quality was far higher than that of say, Sony. N64s feel like they'd keep working if you ran it over with a truck, a ps1 tended to stop working if you looked at it wrong.


----------



## TedEH

Funny enough, my N64 has some stability problems sometimes haha. There's something wacky with the power supply, and it occasionally heats up and crashes.

Maybe it comes down to the individual games, but I've been finding it hard to get some older games running again. Splinter Cell lighting doesn't work properly anymore. I tried Kane & Lynch a while ago and it's just unplayably chuuuuuugs along for reasons unknown. So many games have resolution problems (Old Thief games, Deus Ex 1, Rogue Squadron, etc), a couple of games claim to be been maintained but still don't work (7th Legion - I know, it's not a "good" game, but still, lol).

I actually did try recently to get a Win 95 machine going in a VM and maaaaan what a pain it is to get that OS running now.


----------



## wankerness

What program were you using to try and build the VM? The built-in one in Windows 10? I haven't experimented with that much, the only thing I have done with it was set up a Windows 10 32-bit machine on someone's computer that had hardware that only supported 64 bit. It seemed pretty intuitive.

I have only used my N64 once in the last several years and that was to play Diddy Kong Racing! It was fine for that. But, yeah, I guess I wouldn't trust Expansion Pak games to work reliably, especially those that required it.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> I guess I wouldn't trust Expansion Pak games to work reliably, especially those that required it.


Why's that? Expansion pack is basically just a bit o ram.

I was using VirtualBox and an old Win 95 disk image. I did get it to run eventually, but the video drivers were wacky. Granted, I was shooting myself in the foot a little bit -> My original goal was to get 95 working in DosBox so that I could run it on my phone.  I know it's doable, and I've done it with XP before and it was so slow as to be unusable.


----------



## Joan Maal

I spent a lot of money playing to "Black Tiger" on arcades. Mostly of best games ever we're on arcades. No need to remake, just use M.A.M.E.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> Why's that? Expansion pack is basically just a bit o ram.
> 
> I was using VirtualBox and an old Win 95 disk image. I did get it to run eventually, but the video drivers were wacky. Granted, I was shooting myself in the foot a little bit -> My original goal was to get 95 working in DosBox so that I could run it on my phone.  I know it's doable, and I've done it with XP before and it was so slow as to be unusable.



I don't trust peripherals as much as I trust the system itself, I guess I figured it would overheat or fail or have been exposed to dust and grime for too long (even though it's fairly sealed in). It's probably misplaced. I know very little about it.

Yikes, that's quite a goal! I've never used Virtualbox. We have unidesk/vmware here on campus, and I used the aforementioned Hyper-V once, but obviously I haven't used those for screwing around with old OSs, even though I HAVE had to reinstall DOS on an ancient computer which had a failed hard drive. It was really fun going through a huge stack of floppies and finding that only ONE worked and then having to go through and install/erase all 6 (maybe it was 5, don't remember) floppies necessary for DOS on the same disk. What are you using 95 for?

I've used remote desktop from iOS with some success, would installing 95 on dosbox and then remoting to the computer that is running dosbox work better?  I dunno what you're trying to do, of course, it would probably be unusably tiny.


----------



## TedEH

My original goal was to try to get a game going on my phone, but at this point I don't even remember what the game was. I was able to get a couple of Windows 3.1 games going on it, but 3.1 is suuuuuper easy to get running. I've got Magic DosBox though on my phone, and it works really great -> Not only does it run really nicely in most cases, but you can also re-map controls to whatever you want on a per-game/instance basis, so I've got a bluetooth controller hooked up and you can map it to arrow keys, or wasd or whatever else. Doom, Wolf 3d, old platformers, Monkey Island, etc., original/legal copies of everything, with controllers mapped to keys. It's a surprisingly good way to play IMO.


----------



## lurè

Tenchu


----------



## Ralyks

For some reason, a game I thought should at least get a remaster job done came to mind: Heavenly Sword.

Although Microsoft.own Ninja Theory now, so guess that becomes and Xbox game...


----------



## HeavyMetal4Ever

I want a quality reboot/remake/console port of X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter. I'd also love a new Unirally, Crimson Skies and some form of Mechwarrior.


----------



## DudeManBrother

I’d love a reboot of the Tokyo Xtreme Racer (Shutoko Battle) series on PS4 or PS5. Those games were so fun. I am seriously contemplating purchasing a PS2 controller and memory card just to play those games again. Wish I could find the 4 or so I know I have somewhere


----------



## Quiet Coil

I LOVED the OG Need for Speed Underground games. Hell, even discovered two of my favorite bands playing #2 (Soulwax & Skindred). The original Most Wanted was pretty sick too, but they lost me after Carbon.

EA would never remake these games (and keep them true to their original spirit) but it would be cool to see them return to form with future releases.


----------



## thedonal

Joan Maal said:


> I spent a lot of money playing to "Black Tiger" on arcades. Mostly of best games ever we're on arcades. No need to remake, just use M.A.M.E.



Love that game. I had it on the Atari ST years ago- fantastic port. I played it through on a cheat (I know!!) a fair few times.

I have it free on a collection on the X-Box 360. It's really bloody difficult.

Though that's me who- having bought the SNES classic- has realised what difference 26 odd years makes on your gaming performance- I can't evne get through a few levels of Super Mario World any more!! Or Super Contra- The Alien Wars. I could blast through that game years ago. No longer!!

It also reminds me how much more forgiving many major games are these days..


----------



## TedEH

Having recently-ish picked up a 3ds - I think I can see the value in remakes or ports to handhelds just for the convenience factor. At this point, I don't see myself busting out a Wii to play very many things, but I'd play handheld versions of games from that console.


----------



## MFB

TedEH said:


> Having recently-ish picked up a 3ds - I think I can see the value in remakes or ports to handhelds just for the convenience factor. At this point, I don't see myself busting out a Wii to play very many things, but I'd play handheld versions of games from that console.



Looking at the list, I think the 3DS might be a better option for me than trying to track down a Wii-U for a Zelda box. I'd buy a Switch if they actually allowed for the virtual console games to be played on them, but currently it's Breath of the Wild and Skyward Sword I think? I've still never gotten to play Windwaker, and I love, LOVE, the artstyle of it, but it's always been on consoles I've never had a need for besides that one game.


----------



## TedEH

There's a bunch of virtual console stuff that is Wii-U only and I don't have one. Would be nice if they made those available on the 3ds too, since it would guess the hardware is more than capable of handling stuff newer than snes.


----------



## Randy

Forgive me if it's mentioned elsewhere but big vote for Bushido Blade.


----------



## thedonal

MFB said:


> Looking at the list, I think the 3DS might be a better option for me than trying to track down a Wii-U for a Zelda box. I'd buy a Switch if they actually allowed for the virtual console games to be played on them, but currently it's Breath of the Wild and Skyward Sword I think? I've still never gotten to play Windwaker, and I love, LOVE, the artstyle of it, but it's always been on consoles I've never had a need for besides that one game.



Windwaker is a truly, truly wonderful game. I'd go switch for this and to play Breath of the Wild (and Skyward Sword- I missed that one). But not at the current console price. Still nearly £300? I guess they must be doing well with it...

I nearly bought a WII-U for Windwaker HD. Didn't though..


----------



## wankerness

Windwaker is good. I don't know if they tweaked anything with the rerelease. It had a problem that made most of my RL friends consider it a lesser Zelda, which is that you get close to the end and all of a sudden are told you have to go on a wild goose chase around the entire world collecting tons of treasures off the bottom of the ocean to proceed. If they didn't change that, YMMV on how great you think it is! I'm one of those nerds that goes exploring all the time to try and complete sections of the map as I go, and as a result when I hit that part of the story I only had about 1/4 of those treasures left to collect and it didn't feel like a big deal at all.

I bought a Wii-U for Breath of the Wild cause I also wanted Bayonetta 2 and Smash Bros and Donkey Kong and it was like 1/3 the price of a Switch. Naturally then I got a criminally cheap Switch and Bayonetta/DK got released on Switch in higher-quality versions. Oh well. BOTW isn't really inferior on Wii-U apart from the controller. The step-system of backwards-compatibility is frustrating, though - I thought the Wii-U would let me get rid of the Wii, but nope, I have to keep the Wii to play GC games!! At least they can use the same sensor bar.


----------



## StevenC

Windwaker changed the triforce hunting bit in the HD version and no one complains about it anymore.


----------



## possumkiller

Diablo should be remade using the engine from Witcher 3. 

Also, Thief.


----------



## TedEH

possumkiller said:


> Also, Thief.


I feel like Thief is a game that is best not-too-modernized. It was simple and good. Maybe making it run nicely on modern hardware, and the odd visual touch-up here and there would be cool, but the chance of tweaking the mechanics of it at all could potentially break what was good about it pretty easily.... I'd be worried about getting Thief 2014 again.

That said - I didn't _hate_ Thief 4.... But it wasn't very Thief for a Thief game. I've heard a lot of people say Dishonored made a better modern Thief than the real modern Thief. I can't say that I disagree.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

possumkiller said:


> Diablo should be remade using the engine from Witcher 3.
> 
> Also, Thief.



I can't find it but there is awesome fan art of the Witcher reimagined as an isometric RPG which would be equally as cool.

There was a game that was basically Diablo but in a Witcher/Skyrim style engine. It never got released but the gameplay looked incredible. It will take a lot of digging to find out what it was. Its a shame that so many games don't get released. It must be soul crushing for the teams working on them.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Randy said:


> Forgive me if it's mentioned elsewhere but big vote for Bushido Blade.




YES!


----------



## TedEH

I find the more time I spend with the 2ds I bought a while back, the more I feel like the 3ds platform is perfect for bringing back old stuff. The Starfox 64 remake looks great on that thing. I'd play the sh*t out of all the n64 era remakes on this console. Same with snes era stuff. A Perfect Dark 3D would be great.


----------



## Ralyks

Shame the 3DS is on its way out. Though the thought of getting one dirt cheap to play some of those Zelda games and Persona Q2 has forward my mind...


----------



## TedEH

I still think it's a worthwhile system. If you have a 3ds and an Advance SP (which is pretty cheap to get now), you basically have access to 100% of Nintendo's handheld content until you get up to the Switch.


----------



## wankerness

3DS doesn't do GBA games? The DS did. Oh well. I think all the Castlevania games for GBA and DS besides Circle of the Moon are necessary plays if you like metroidvania games. I haven't used the DS much for anything other than RPG ports (like FFVI) or Donkey Kong Country ports. But man, did I get my money's worth with those Castlevania games. The GBA "Double Pack" and the first and third games for DS in particular are up there with SOTN.

Speaking of, I just bought the PS4 port of SOTN and started playing through it again yesterday. I've been through it too many times, it only took me about 3-4 hours to get to the second castle and that was with grinding for the Chakram. I HATE, HATE, HATE the new voice acting cause they unforgivably applied it to the librarian. Now he's got a flat "what can i do for you?" and "thank you." Arguably just as bad is the Demon familiar - now he doesn't have the terribly translated "WHY DON'T I PRESS IT AND SEE?" line, but he also has the most generic regular guy voice ever. I also think the new voice actor for Alucard is inferior. They did fix some of the hilariously badly translated dialogue and the voice acting is "better," but I really don't like that they changed it at all and some of the stuff you'd hear over and over is sorely missed, especially the librarian and demon and sword familiar. I wish there'd been an option to toggle back to old game sound. I wonder what the problem was, since the Xbox360 port had the original voice acting. That's probably what I'll play next time I get the urge.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> 3DS doesn't do GBA games? The DS did



When I read this, I immediately thought virtual console - completely forgetting that the older DS models played GBA titles too. I imagine the hardware should be able to handle that as a virtual console title too? Too bad that's not a thing though. I'm kind of glad the 3ds doesn't have another giant GBA cart slot on it though. Seems like that would make it a lot bulkier than it already is.


----------



## Demiurge

wankerness said:


> Speaking of, I just bought the PS4 port of SOTN and started playing through it again yesterday.



I heard this port was based on the PSP version- is that true? 

It was the first version of SotN that I played. It's kind of fun that you can skip losing all of your gear to Death in the beginning by simply backing out of the room and re-entering.


----------



## wankerness

Demiurge said:


> I heard this port was based on the PSP version- is that true?
> 
> It was the first version of SotN that I played. It's kind of fun that you can skip losing all of your gear to Death in the beginning by simply backing out of the room and re-entering.



I'm not familiar with the PSP version so I can't answer. The only clue I can give you is that it had a boss fight against maria to get the ring towards the end of the first castle that I don't recall seeing before. Not sure if that was in the 360 version or not, or whether it came from the Saturn version, or PSP, or what. Oh, and it has separate Faerie and Fairy familiars, I think there was only one in the 360 version, def only one in PSX.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Bloody_Inferno said:


> And from the Enix side, any of the 3 Blazer trilogy games (Soul Blazer, Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma), or at least a spiritual sequel like they tried with The Granstream Saga but with more recurring themes.



I tend to bring up these 3 games every now and then, but after seeing a retrospective review of Terranigma, I wished Quintet continued on making great games like these. Terranigma was the best action-RPG in the SNES era and still outdoes even the newer 2D Zelda games.


----------



## Un1corn

Rollercoaster Tycoon.
Yes there is Planet Coaster
But i want the waterfall and underwater rides


----------



## mlp187

Shadowman/ Shadow Man from dreamcast/N64.
The dreamcast version was much better. Epic game, tied for all time favorite along with Ocarina of Time. It was so brutal and dark:


----------



## TedEH

I've never heard of that one, but those screenshots make it look cool. Will have to look it up.


----------



## Ralyks

The first Borderlands OH WAIT 

Oh, also? I want a true sequel to Mario Bros 3. With the raccoon suit, tanooki suit, hammer bros suit, koopa kids etc.

Unless that was the premise of one of those DS games I never got to play.


----------



## wankerness

mlp187 said:


> View attachment 68133
> View attachment 68134
> View attachment 68135
> View attachment 68136
> Shadowman/ Shadow Man from dreamcast/N64.
> The dreamcast version was much better. Epic game, tied for all time favorite along with Ocarina of Time. It was so brutal and dark:



Huh. I have that game. I vaguely remember starting it back in the day. I have memories of a jail run by pig men!!


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Ralyks said:


> The first Borderlands OH WAIT
> 
> Oh, also? I want a true sequel to Mario Bros 3. With the raccoon suit, tanooki suit, hammer bros suit, koopa kids etc.
> 
> Unless that was the premise of one of those DS games I never got to play.




Cool thing is if you already own BL1 on PC, you get the upgrade for free.


----------



## mlp187

wankerness said:


> Huh. I have that game. I vaguely remember starting it back in the day. I have memories of a jail run by pig men!!


YES! They squeal when they attack! That's when you get to Asylum. I played through the entire night when I first arrived. Nostalgia is hitting me so hard right now!


----------



## wankerness

PunkBillCarson said:


> Cool thing is if you already own BL1 on PC, you get the upgrade for free.



I only want to play it on console, unfortunately, but I’m fine with paying the money.

Here’s hoping it’s not censored gorewise to match the sequels!


----------



## Demiurge

Ralyks said:


> Oh, also? I want a true sequel to Mario Bros 3. With the raccoon suit, tanooki suit, hammer bros suit, koopa kids etc.
> 
> Unless that was the premise of one of those DS games I never got to play.



Super Mario 3D Land on the 3DS is kind of an attempt at it- with the Koopa kids, air ships, raccoon tail, etc., but kind of like all of the newer Mario games it also incorporates stuff through the whole series.

I'm kind of surprised that nothing has been done with SMB 2. Maybe in Japan it's still the "unrelated game that we re-skinned with Mario for the stupid Americans".


----------



## wankerness

Demiurge said:


> Super Mario 3D Land on the 3DS is kind of an attempt at it- with the Koopa kids, air ships, raccoon tail, etc., but kind of like all of the newer Mario games it also incorporates stuff through the whole series.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised that nothing has been done with SMB 2. Maybe in Japan it's still the "unrelated game that we re-skinned with Mario for the stupid Americans".



Characters from it are in basically every other Mario game (bobombs and shyguys for example), so they didn’t try to sweep it under the rug or anything? I dunno how they think of it continuity-wise, but whatev. There was a GBA version that I didn’t play that I think enhanced it somewhat more than Mario all-stars, but I might be wrong on that.


----------



## Demiurge

^Oh, I know they've used enemies, etc. in other games, but I like the picking-up & flinging enemies/objects part of the gameplay. And the dream world thing with the asshole frog boss would at least be a change of scenery.


----------



## Seabeast2000

PunkBillCarson said:


> Cool thing is if you already own BL1 on PC, you get the upgrade for free.



Hmmm! Should I be expecting Steam to hook a brother up on this free upgrade?


----------



## PunkBillCarson

The906 said:


> Hmmm! Should I be expecting Steam to hook a brother up on this free upgrade?




I would hope so. That's what I've got it on. Also, Borderlands 2 will be getting a free update if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Ralyks

Yes, if you have 1, 2, or Presequel on steam, you get the 4k/graphic update for free. On consoles, you get the 4K/Graphics update for the Handsome Collections 9so 2 and Presequel), and the first game will be 30 bucks on PS4 and Xbox One.

Either way, I'm playing a lot of Borderlands for the foreseeable future. Ralyks03 on PSN for those who care to join.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Ralyks said:


> Yes, if you have 1, 2, or Presequel on steam, you get the 4k/graphic update for free. On consoles, you get the 4K/Graphics update for the Handsome Collections 9so 2 and Presequel), and the first game will be 30 bucks on PS4 and Xbox One.
> 
> Either way, I'm playing a lot of Borderlands for the foreseeable future. Ralyks03 on PSN for those who care to join.




Made a new Mechromancer last night on PC and realized that if you dump anything in Lighter, Smaller, Faster, it makes the Unending Infinity absolutely worthless. Good thing I'd gotten a couple of Harold's on my other character. With the Anarchy Stacks, good ol' Harold should take me through quite a bit.


----------



## Ralyks

I don't even remember what my Zer0 has, but its a shit ton of OP8 Legendary, Seraph, and Pearlescent weapons.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

in the process of reading this thread so not sure if they have been added, but i doubt it cause they are "old school" arcade shooters...

phoenix 

vanguard


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> Characters from it are in basically every other Mario game (bobombs and shyguys for example), so they didn’t try to sweep it under the rug or anything? I dunno how they think of it continuity-wise, but whatev. There was a GBA version that I didn’t play that I think enhanced it somewhat more than Mario all-stars, but I might be wrong on that.


This. Plus Peach's hover ability and the gameplay differences between Mario and Luigi were first introduced in this game.



Demiurge said:


> ^Oh, I know they've used enemies, etc. in other games, but I like the picking-up & flinging enemies/objects part of the gameplay. And the dream world thing with the asshole frog boss would at least be a change of scenery.



I'm pretty sure Mario was able to pick stuff up in SMB3, and then certainly in most of the 3D games. Then you have Captain Toad throwing turnips, and I think Peach has turnips in Smash.


----------



## wankerness

PunkBillCarson said:


> Made a new Mechromancer last night on PC and realized that if you dump anything in Lighter, Smaller, Faster, it makes the Unending Infinity absolutely worthless. Good thing I'd gotten a couple of Harold's on my other character. With the Anarchy Stacks, good ol' Harold should take me through quite a bit.



I kind of hated Mechromancer since it was so dependent on mass anarchy stacks and they're so incredibly tedious to build up and punishing to lose.

I booted up Borderlands 2 on my ps4 for the first time in a long time and realized my character's only level 35 and thus has the trash weapons you get by playing the game normally. Every torgue machine gun is bad!! I promptly got wrecked by the overseer in the tiny tina DLC and said F IT ALL and quit the game for another year.


----------



## MetalHex

Far Cry Instincts Predator


----------



## thedonal

MetalHex said:


> Far Cry Instincts Predator



I got this on the XBox many years ago- got frustrated with it due to the constant enemy spawning (albeit in sections where I just had to run). It seemed a bit of a cheap dynamic given the stealth and planning side of the original. I ended up abandoning the game.I loved Instincts but was properly disappointed with Predator.


----------



## thedonal

On the topic of Far Cry, I really think Far Cry 2 could do with a makeover. Mostly, I love the game (I've certainly played through it enough times), but it's just those checkpoints. I'd love to see a mechanic where the checkpoint takes some time to re-populate when you take out all the guards, but each time it gets harder. Make it a tactical choice whether to sneak past or go guns in. So not a mechanic like the later games where you 'convert' outposts, but choosing how you play the game affects the difficulty.

Maybe making the landscape more engaging too- more animals with threats in there as well as just passive wildlife and also 'manhunts' where you have raised enough attention that guards come on the hunt for you.

And weather that actually affects how it plays- muddy roads/hills suddenly being harder to navigate. Rain/wind affecting health and mobility (but not so much to completely detract from the game- more to bring the world alive).

So much scope with this game that could be exploited!


----------



## MetalHex

thedonal said:


> I got this on the XBox many years ago- got frustrated with it due to the constant enemy spawning (albeit in sections where I just had to run). It seemed a bit of a cheap dynamic given the stealth and planning side of the original. I ended up abandoning the game.I loved Instincts but was properly disappointed with Predator.


Oh i just mainly played the MP. It gave so much freedom and encouraged team-efforts in certain game modes. You can still find a person or two sitting in an empty lobby waiting


----------



## MetalHex

thedonal said:


> On the topic of Far Cry, I really think Far Cry 2 could do with a makeover. Mostly, I love the game (I've certainly played through it enough times), but it's just those checkpoints. I'd love to see a mechanic where the checkpoint takes some time to re-populate when you take out all the guards, but each time it gets harder. Make it a tactical choice whether to sneak past or go guns in. So not a mechanic like the later games where you 'convert' outposts, but choosing how you play the game affects the difficulty.
> 
> Maybe making the landscape more engaging too- more animals with threats in there as well as just passive wildlife and also 'manhunts' where you have raised enough attention that guards come on the hunt for you.
> 
> And weather that actually affects how it plays- muddy roads/hills suddenly being harder to navigate. Rain/wind affecting health and mobility (but not so much to completely detract from the game- more to bring the world alive).
> 
> So much scope with this game that could be exploited!


I know FC2 has a pretty big following still too. I didn't dig it so much. FC3 reinvigorated the series with lush colors and a slightly better map editor.

FC5 map editor is amazing though. Here is one of the maps I made for TDM (not my video)


----------



## Ralyks

I wish they would just take WWF No Mercy and put the modern roster and moves in there. Still the best wrestling game ever, and top 10 game for that N64/PSone generation.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Ralyks said:


> I wish they would just take WWF No Mercy and put the modern roster and moves in there. Still the best wrestling game ever, and top 10 game for that N64/PSone generation.




Well thing is, only the N64 crowd got to enjoy it.


----------



## sfj

Theme Hospital - anyone remember that one?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

sfj said:


> Theme Hospital - anyone remember that one?



Staff announcement. Incoming patients with bloaty head.

I loved that game. I wasn’t very good at it so I used to try run the hospital into the ground. Rats and rubbish everywhere, incompetent staff, patients making a mess. Fun times.


----------



## Merrekof

Armed an dangerous! I had so much fun with that back in the day


----------



## Quiet Coil

Alan Wake.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Merrekof said:


> Armed an dangerous! I had so much fun with that back in the day


Man does that game need a remake. Same with Mercenaries.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Just posting again to bitch and moan about *why don't we have a new Chrono Trigger, Square!?!?*


----------



## Ralyks

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Just posting again to bitch and moan about *why don't we have a new Chrono Trigger, Square!?!?*



Seriously. REVIVE CHRONO BREAK YOU PUNKS!!


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Just posting again to bitch and moan about *why don't we have a new Chrono Trigger, Square!?!?*





Ralyks said:


> Seriously. REVIVE CHRONO BREAK YOU PUNKS!!



I've harked and barked many numerous times that this isn't going to happen for a long time, since Squarenix have been treating the Chrono property like a layabout child locked in their basement to snooze for over a decade and only to come out once or twice for sun looking like a malnourished SNES port.

But I do want to be proven wrong. The Trials Of Mana remake is everything I wanted, and Square Enix are doing just that and releasing next year. So there's at least a small glimmer of hope.

In the meantime Squenix did put the entire Chrono discography (Trigger, Cross and Arranged stuff) on Spotify so there's also that at least.


https://open.spotify.com/user/nukac...IJMptDKRv2JxlJbMZwt?si=wHaCb3OARaWuJSUbLe6Qeg


----------



## Ralyks

Music's cool. Give me a Chrono collection on PS4 now plz k thx.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Socom 2


----------



## NotDonVito

That Ghost in the Shell game on playstation where you play as a spider tank. So you roll around shooting at shit, but you can drive on the walls. It's a cool game, but you know it's on old hardware so the framerate and camera controls are ass. Even on an emulator the framerate sucks. Also add multiplayer, local and online where you can roll around chase your friends on the walls shooting at them. Maybe not a full remake, but a similar style game in the GiTS universe.


----------



## Descent

Capcom 1941 was one of my favorite arcade games, would love to see that one back.


----------



## Ulvhedin

Jet Force Gemini, Body Harvest, Star Wars Racing, Shadow Man, Dino Crisis, Die By The Sword, Sunset Riders, and many,many more.


----------



## TedEH

Ulvhedin said:


> Jet Force Gemini


This is one of those games where I think the nostalgia glasses played a huge role. I've got a copy of this now and.... it's really not what I remember.


----------



## Kaura

This game for sure.


----------



## XPT707FX

The Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic games


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> This is one of those games where I think the nostalgia glasses played a huge role. I've got a copy of this now and.... it's really not what I remember.



The same could be said of virtually anything fully polygonal from the PSX/N64 era.  Only the most polished, art-directed things still hold up, and even some of them are marginal.


----------



## TedEH

I dunno that I'd go that far. I still really enjoy lots of N64 games despite being really ugly to look at.


----------



## WarMachine

Carrion Rocket said:


> The Legacy of Kain series


YES


----------



## WarMachine

Bloody_Inferno said:


> And from the Enix side, any of the 3 Blazer trilogy games (Soul Blazer, Illusion Of Gaia, Terranigma)
> Add Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon on N64 to the list.


This as well! I thought Soul Blazer was really unique, almost ties into the Actraiser games as well, the "master/angel" thing, reviving humanity etc. Good shit. And Mystical Ninja on the N64 was probably my favorite N64 game. No joke. Not the 2nd one, side scroller (although good also).


----------



## WarMachine

Castlevania, the TRADITIONAL Castlevania. I'd like to see the 1st 3 games be remade in 3D but stay side scrolling. 

I'd also love seeing the Contra trilogy to be 3D side scrolling as well. 

But, Konami said fuck the fans unfortunately.
Another i've been waiting on since they started to was Capcom to remake the entire Mega Man X series like they did Maverick Hunter X/MM: Powered Up. Those could definitely use some 3D remake TLC lol.


----------



## Adieu

MM6!!!




On Android please!!


----------



## beerandbeards

RE3!!!!


----------



## CapinCripes

Witcher 1 with a non awful combat system. Tried to get someone into the series who had heard the hype around witcher 3 but was immediately turned off by the first game's game-play.


----------



## dr_game0ver

So much yes for Body Harvest, one of the greatest game ever also i'd add Enclave to the list.
According to some sources, Capcom may by doing something Dino Crisis related soon...


----------



## BlackMastodon

I'm seeing posts on Reddit saying this for the LotR: Return of the King game. It was definitely the best movie tie-in game I remember playing, and an EA published one at that, but I don't remember a whole lot of praise for it, maybe because it was a movie tie-in.

Anyway, if I could get Major's Mask for every system that would be great.


----------



## MFB

Oh dude, the Return of the King game was fucking bonkers and had no right being as fun as it was. It was so stupidly fun when playing with others, and throwing on cheat codes made it even more fun than thought possible. 

If they could update that whole series, Id invest in it.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I did play the shit out of those games back in the day so definitely can confirm they were fun games, just surprised it's come around to peoples' nostalgia goggles.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MFB said:


> Oh dude, the Return of the King game was fucking bonkers and had no right being as fun as it was. It was so stupidly fun when playing with others, and throwing on cheat codes made it even more fun than thought possible.
> 
> If they could update that whole series, Id invest in it.


I mean if you want something kind of in that vein, the shadow of mordor series and the War in the North games are actually really solid hack/slash games like the old LOTR games.


----------



## TedEH

I liked Shadow of Mordor, but never played the one after. I think my name is in the credits for the first one too (I can't find proof online though hah).


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TedEH said:


> I liked Shadow of Mordor, but never played the one after. I think my name is in the credits for the first one too (I can't find proof online though hah).


The sequel is way better honestly. It gets a bit repetitive with the army building/defense missions for the endgame but ride along the way is a lot of fun. The nemesis system got expanded and it's easily the best part about the game still.


----------



## CapinCripes

BlackMastodon said:


> I'm seeing posts on Reddit saying this for the LotR: Return of the King game.


Oh that brings me way back. I played the hell out of that one on PC when it came out way back when. My most vivid memory of that game was the king of the dead fight, although everybody else seems to think shelob was harder.


----------



## NotDonVito

LOL I used to play that ROTK game with my friends on Gamecube back in the day. That version had 3 player co-op(maybe 4 but I think it was only 3). The guy who owned the game had dibs on Legolas cause everyone else wanted to play him. I got stuck tanking with Gimli most of the time. Good times, we never beat the game together, but I later got my own copy and beat it solo. I had the Two Towers game as well which was also fun, but didn't have multiplayer.


----------



## toner

Legit remakes of Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. Not changing the top down to crap 3D kiddie models etiher just make them the same but new graphics.


----------



## Gmork

Bushido blade!!! Would die for a good remake/reboot!


----------



## bostjan

I'm old, and I've been playing PC games since I was basically in diapers. I'd personally love to see the old Wing Commander games, as well as Privateer, made into something playable on modern machines. I know there was an open source project 10-15 years ago, but it was broken a lot.

I'm sort of surprised that I haven't seen Scorched Earth remade for phones as a social media type of game.

I'd also love to see Dragon Warrior (Dragon Quest) done with the Pokemon Go mechanics (augmented reality or whatever). That could be fun for me and most of you guys's grandparents.


----------



## Metropolis

My childhood is here again.


----------



## Choop

Gmork said:


> Bushido blade!!! Would die for a good remake/reboot!



But would you die in one hit...?!?

When I was a kid, I was really into Mechwarrior. My friend had this (ripoff?) game called G-Nome that was very similar, but it had some cool unique ideas like being able to exit your mech. A G-Nome remake could be cool, or just more Mech/Sim type games in general. Ooo, or what about a modernized PC version of Steel Battalion.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I want a modernized Virtual On


----------



## Ralyks

Metropolis said:


> My childhood is here again.




You son of a bitch, I'm in.

Also, the first 3 (or 4 if you count the second as two games) Persona games. Or in the case 3 FES, Bring that and P4G to modern consoles at least.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

Metropolis said:


> My childhood is here again.



God I hope they have the original soundtracks.


----------



## Randy

Thrasher Skate and Destroy > Tony Hawk


----------



## Randy

On topic... JetMoto, Cool Borders, Parasite Eve, Dark Forces+JK+JKii, Nightmare Creatures, Shadow Man and for probably the 5th time I've said it in this thread, Interstate 76.


----------



## Mathemagician

Randy said:


> Thrasher Skate and Destroy > Tony Hawk



I’m one of 3 people who played Grind Session On PS1. Blew my mind that Burnside was a real place at the time.

Also personal favorite “Blasto!” They’d have to get a new voice actor though. But that glitchy mess had some fun ideas.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

This year, Square Enix have proven they can produce a great remake, without breaking it down to episodes, artificially padding the gameplay, excessive self indulgence, and some confused Kingdom Hearts-esque bullcrap.

So I guess I can jump on the bandwagon crying out for a proper Chrono Trigger remake. Come on Squenix, you know you can do it. Yeah, sure you can't get the Dream Team back together as well anymore, but there's at least some semblance of heart in there that made Trials Of Mana and Octopath Traveller. Hell, you've got that Tokyo RPG Factory that aren't really doing much. You let them make I Am Setsuna, that was basically a watered down Trigger. It was even marketed for the CT nostalgia crowd so you have some plans with the property outside leaving it chained in your basement to along with Xenogears.

So now is the time Square, let's bring out the Chrono series back for some sunlight. I've already forgotten about that horrible port you released earlier. Bring in the fatter overbloated sister Chrono Cross along for the ride too. Use some of that triple A money to bring some of the Dream Team back. Hell, I'll even volunteer to rearrange and play guitar on some of the music.


----------



## TedEH

I feel like the pattern of remakes lately makes me kinda leary of anyone re-doing games that people have that much attachment to. I'd be worried that Chrono Trigger would be remade into something that doesn't quite match people's memory of the original.


----------



## mongey

Randy said:


> Thrasher Skate and Destroy > Tony Hawk


Oh for sure. Was A way better game for actual skaters.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I feel like the pattern of remakes lately makes me kinda leary of anyone re-doing games that people have that much attachment to. I'd be worried that Chrono Trigger would be remade into something that doesn't quite match people's memory of the original.



The FF7 remake's near-universal success seems to say the opposite.

I don't think they'd give that game the proper attention before they're done milking this cow. I bet we mainly get FF7 games for the next few years at least.


----------



## Nicki

FF6 should get a proper remake.

Soul Reaver, Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance should all get proper remakes.

Medal of Honor Allied Assault and its expansions should get remakes.

Ogre Battle 64 would be awesome too


----------



## wankerness

I would argue that FF6 holds up pretty well. Like, the gameplay, loading times, general mechanics etc are somewhat up to modern standards (think octopath traveler). FF7, on the other hand, was basically unplayable if you didn't have the speed increased through an emulator/port half the time and even then the combat is incredibly tedious. And those prerendered backdrops with polygonal characters REALLY did not age well compared to your average 16 bit game. I played through the whole FF9 port and it was pretty gnarly (though the gameplay on that one holds up pretty well too).


----------



## Nicki

wankerness said:


> I would argue that FF6 holds up pretty well. Like, the gameplay, loading times, general mechanics etc are somewhat up to modern standards (think octopath traveler). FF7, on the other hand, was basically unplayable if you didn't have the speed increased through an emulator/port half the time and even then the combat is incredibly tedious. And those prerendered backdrops with polygonal characters REALLY did not age well compared to your average 16 bit game. I played through the whole FF9 port and it was pretty gnarly (though the gameplay on that one holds up pretty well too).


The FF6 mobile/steam port is abysmal. The SNES version is the only playable version as even the load times on the PSOne version are atrocious. 6 could really get a proper remake treatment.

Almost none of the PSOne games aged well. They're still playable, but really the only reason why it even got a "remake" is because of all of the fanboys screaming "IT'S THE BEST FF GAME! IT'S THE BEST FF GAME!" and clamoring for a remake to make it as terrible as FFXV is because they don't know what a real FF game is 

In all fairness though, FF7 is considered by many to be the best or their favorite, but mostly because for that generation of gamers, that was the first FF game they played. They're entitled to their opinion, but there are much, MUCH better FF games in the franchise. 6 is generally considered the pinnacle of the series.


----------



## wankerness

6 is definitely my favorite, but it's also the first I played. I also acknowledge that the plot is majorly front-loaded and after the band gets back together in the second half it just kind of sputters out unless you like farming meteor-casting dinosaurs in the woods. But, it has the most memorable characters of the whole series IMHO. 9 and X have some pretty good ones too, but 6 had some real classics. Celes and Terra in particular set a high bar that very few subsequent characters lived up to. 

I've only played the SNES version (on the original cartridge and on the Wii shop) and the GBA version (which is basically the same with better translation). I wouldn't be surprised if the PS version sucked - PS1 versions of almost everything had loading issues that were nuts. I remember frickin Mortal Kombat Trilogy/UMK3 compared to N64/SNES were hilarious. I think my brother has the discs for FFV/VI for PS1 somewhere, but I don't know if i care enough to dig out the PS2 to see what a bad port looks like! I kinda forgot about those ports. I remember seeing a prerendered cutscene for the opera part that was jarring, I assume that and maybe a new intro movie and maybe fixed translations were the main differences from SNES?


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

The PS1 port of FFVI, (as well as IV and V) had some of the most unforgivingly bad loading times in between random encounters. The start I think was about 3 seconds, and the end of the battle goes as far as 5 or more. Being a JRPG, it makes the games nigh unplayable. 

If Square were to make a remake of VI, I've got a few points of suggestion:

It doesn't have to be overbloated or overdesigned. Get the team who did Octopath and Trials remake to work on this (though ditch the Trials English voice director). Keep Tetsuya Nomura far away (even if he has stated he wants to remake it), so none of that subversive confused Kingdom Hearts style bullcrap around here. 

Art style doesn't have to be fully slicked out like FFVIIR. They can keep it SD anime esque like IX for all I care. As long as the dungeon layouts are varied and not repetitive. One of the major flaws of VIIR is all the sewer tunnels all look and play the same, then put collapsing floors to artificially pad the dungeon length. 

Keep the general battles short. One of the biggest bugbears I have with modern JRPGs is that a lot of the random encounters with grunts can take ages to the point of boredom. The original VI fights were swift, whether you grind or not, and it helps keep the pace up. 

In turn, don't overcomplicate the combat system. Another bugbear of modern JRPGs, Trials of Mana once again proves that you can refine the current system without overstuffing the turkey. Use that game's new system and incorporate it into the Esper magicite system as well as each character's unique traits. And let's hope that it makes Cyan and Umaro be more useful outside warming the airship bench. 

No random encounters obviously. 

Keep Sabin/Mash suplexing Doom Train obviously. Why can't I be nostalgia greedy once in a while? 

Ditch the Sprint Shoes and replace with a dedicated run button. 

Simplify and streamline everything to do with Gau's mechanics. At least find a way to cut down unnecessary time wasting just to make him viable. 

If the game must be padded, focus on the second half of the game where it becomes an open world. I will still defend that part of the game despite the story taking a backseat, since the whole point of that section is to look for your lost party members and rally them up to make the final dungeon more meaningful. So why not add some more story nuggets, or expand the existing ones. Expand on some of the underdeveloped characters like Strago and Relm. Add a dream or 2 for Shadow (but don't overdo). Tie some of the loose ends that disappear after Kefka ruins the world, like find dead Returners or something. 

Sounds like I'm asking a lot, but most of my points are largely keeping the gameplay as lean as the original without getting too overboard.


----------



## Randy

Brave Fencer Musashi


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Funny, I was just thinking about the Kikikaikai series (Pocky and Rocky), and thought that would be interesting to see again.

Lo and behold...


----------



## mikernaut

I want a remake of P.N.03 or a Metroid that is more realistic.


----------



## Boofchuck

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already. But The Lord of the Rings Two Towers and Return of the King games from the Xbox/Ps2/GameCube era.


----------



## spudmunkey

A modern 2.5D pixel-art Ninja Gaiden would be cool, as long as they dealt with the (IMO) game-breaking "knock back" mechanic of the originals.


----------



## feilong29

Legend of Dragoon
Xenogears
Final Fantasy IX
Sub-Terrania (Genesis)
Aero Acrobat (SNES)
Jet Moto!!!!!
Diddy Kong Racing
Otogi (Original Xbox)
And....any games on those Pizza Hut PSX demo discs lol


----------



## TedEH

feilong29 said:


> Diddy Kong Racing


There was a DS remake of this one, but I had heard it's not great compared with the original.


----------



## wankerness

I'd imagine Diddy Kong Racing is trapped in licensing hell, since I think Nintendo owns the donkey kong characters but Rare only does stuff for Microsoft.  Those Banjo-Kazooie and Perfect Dark xbox 360 versions were absolutely fantastic and it's really too bad that we will never see them for Goldeneye or Diddy Kong Racing or Blast Corps or Donkey Kong 64 or any of their other classics on the system.

I so want a Blast Corps update!!!

I just blew 100 bucks on two steel N64 controller sticks/bearings so I can at least play N64 games correctly for the foreseeable future.


----------



## p0ke

feilong29 said:


> Xenogears



Oh man, I'd completely forgotten about that game! I've played it almost as much as any FF game but never managed to finish it  That'd be a cool remake for sure. 

Also Chrono Trigger, like someone already suggested... And I wouldn't mind the rest of the older FF games getting proper remakes, all the way up to X I guess.

Hmm, what else did I play as a kid... The Crash Bandicoot trilogy already received a pretty awesome remake collection (CB1 was my first video game ever). 

The N64 Zelda games would be pretty awesome in 4k with ray tracing and all that shit, but since those are Nintendo-exclusives, I don't really care (can't see myself switching away from the Xbox camp anytime soon).

Wipeout? Don't know whether there actually are current gen versions of it, but I'd imagine spaceship racing would look pretty damned cool in current graphics


----------



## Adieu

Might and Magic 6!!!!


----------



## Mathemagician

Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars. Would LOVE to see that game with modern graphics. It looked amazing on the SNES because of what they were able to do to push the graphics. 

The Mario & Luigi games are damn closing to scratching that itch though, those games don’t get enough credit as great RPGs. Heck, remake those as well, I want to play on my big screen.


----------



## TedEH

Mathemagician said:


> Would LOVE to see that game with modern graphics.


It could be argued that the Paper Mario games and Mario+Luigi games are successors to that game. It's a huge stretch, but the latest Paper Mario does look pretty good.


----------



## Mathemagician

TedEH said:


> It could be argued that the Paper Mario games and Mario+Luigi games are successors to that game. It's a huge stretch, but the latest Paper Mario does look pretty good.



Yeah that’s why I listed the Mario & Luigi games, as I played the first one and liked it a LOT. 


[Minor spoilers on a 20+ year old game]
But the real question is can I race Yoshi on a Yoshi island to impress other Yoshis? Can I fight power ranger knock-offs? Can I find the Primordial Chaos hidden behind an item shop and then fight his punk ass? Can I harness the power of rainbow lasers as pinochio? These are questions we must ask ourselves daily.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> I'd imagine Diddy Kong Racing is trapped in licensing hell, since I think Nintendo owns the donkey kong characters but Rare only does stuff for Microsoft.  Those Banjo-Kazooie and Perfect Dark xbox 360 versions were absolutely fantastic and it's really too bad that we will never see them for Goldeneye or Diddy Kong Racing or Blast Corps or Donkey Kong 64 or any of their other classics on the system.
> 
> I so want a Blast Corps update!!!
> 
> I just blew 100 bucks on two steel N64 controller sticks/bearings so I can at least play N64 games correctly for the foreseeable future.


I wouldn't be so pessimistic about Rare remakes, at least not because of licensing limitations. As far as I'm aware, Nintendo owns everything relating to DK, but even then Nintendo and Microsoft have been quite chummy lately between Banjo in Smash and Ori 1&2 being on Switch.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that if Nintendo wanted to the wouldn't meet any hostility.


----------



## TedEH

We just need to wait until Microsoft buys Nintendo, then Tencent buys both of them, and gaming just become ones giant conglomerate - then licensing problems will be a thing of the past!


----------



## Adieu

TedEH said:


> We just need to wait until Microsoft buys Nintendo, then Tencent buys both of them, and gaming just become ones giant conglomerate - then licensing problems will be a thing of the past!



As long as somebody buys Microsoft and guts them, only leaving the intellectual properties and firing EVERY LAST PERSON

That fucking company cannot do anything right


----------



## TedEH

I mean.... don't they do a whole lot of charity work? (In between injecting people with nano-bots or whatever people seem to think they do.) They also created so much of the software the word runs on. That's also a whole lot of suddenly unemployed people who had nothing to do with whatever evils you probably attribute to the company. They're not any more evil than any other gigantic company. Not less so, either, but still not more.


----------



## p0ke

Mathemagician said:


> Super Mario RPG



Oh yeah, that'd be awesome. I just don't think they'd be putting the same turn based mechanics into it, and with that removed, I don't really see it differing much from your average Mario game... Could still be awesome though.


----------



## Adieu

TedEH said:


> I mean.... don't they do a whole lot of charity work? (In between injecting people with nano-bots or whatever people seem to think they do.) They also created so much of the software the word runs on. That's also a whole lot of suddenly unemployed people who had nothing to do with whatever evils you probably attribute to the company. They're not any more evil than any other gigantic company. Not less so, either, but still not more.



No evil

Just incompetence

Can't we have just a small fraction of the speed and stability we're used to on our mobile devices???? Is that too much to ask?


----------



## TedEH

Adieu said:


> Can't we have just a small fraction of the speed and stability we're used to on our mobile devices???? Is that too much to ask?


Are you referring to Windows? 'Cause if you know what you're doing, Windows is easily much more stable than any phone I've ever had. Minus the store. That store app.... yeeesh.

I honestly think that stuff like Windows gets a bad rep because the average user doesn't understand their computer well enough to know what to attribute their tech problems to.


----------



## Adieu

TedEH said:


> Are you referring to Windows? 'Cause if you know what you're doing, Windows is easily much more stable than any phone I've ever had. Minus the store. That store app.... yeeesh.
> 
> I honestly think that stuff like Windows gets a bad rep because the average user doesn't understand their computer well enough to know what to attribute their tech problems to.



Resetting, crashing, begging for dlls, running forced updates or scans as priority processes while you're trying to get shit done, etc.

And every office version is more messed up than before

And don't even get me started on fucking Teams, the much-advertised Office app that isn't even IN fucking office. And its call button is hidden in the goddam calendar, because THAT makes sense. Like the "inclusivity" cartoon people, soooo punchable.



....oh yeah, soooo much better than my Samsung Note 9 that just runs shit when asked, as asked, immediately and without question or stutter. What Microsoft needs is to embrace the Nike logo as its core value. Instead, it's as obstructive as an unbribed third-world civil servant.

Want complications? Entrust it to Microsoft.


----------



## TedEH

I mean, those aren't stability issues, those are user experience issues (other than Teams - 'cause yeah, Teams isn't the most stable thing I've ever used). I get what you mean now though.


----------



## narad

Just curious -- what do people think of square-enix as a company? When I was more into video games they were like the greatest in my mind, but it's been a while, and only just this year have I taken the time to get into some newer titles.


----------



## TedEH

In my brain, Square Enix fits that same kind of publisher space as something like Zenimax. I like a lot of the games they own/publish/distribute/etc., but I generally attribute that to the group that made it (Eidos, Crystal Dynamics, IO, etc).


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

narad said:


> Just curious -- what do people think of square-enix as a company? When I was more into video games they were like the greatest in my mind, but it's been a while, and only just this year have I taken the time to get into some newer titles.



I've documented my intense Love/Hate for Square Enix in both this thread and the main game thread. Example:



> Maybe I'm just bitter. I watched my 2 favorite companies Squaresoft and Enix combine into what I hope was a Voltron of corporations. Boy was I naive. Instead, it's become like the pus bleeding Tetsuo at the end of Akira... sigh.



Let's just say, when they do something I love, I'll support it full fanboy style. But when the release something I hate, I will vocally condemn them for it. Very little to no middle ground.


----------



## narad

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I've documented my intense Love/Hate for Square Enix in both this thread and the main game thread. Example:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say, when they do something I love, I'll support it full fanboy style. But when the release something I hate, I will vocally condemn them for it. Very little to no middle ground.



Yea, but you didn't like the FF7 remake - c'mon man!


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

narad said:


> Yea, but you didn't like the FF7 remake - c'mon man!



That's right I didn't. Though saying that it reached the dizzying heights of 'Eh, it's alright I guess' does sound harsh.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Been playing Ys IV Memories Of Celceta a lot and thinking about the Ys series as a whole. The series has remake etched into it's DNA as much as the Ninja Turtles, I wouldn't mind getting all the old school bumper car games remade with the new multi character hack and slash mechanics of the latter games post Ys VI (especially VIII and the upcoming IX). Hell Celceta is the third remake (or fourth I lost count) of the original Dawn of Ys and Mask Of The Sun (the latter seems to be considered the worst of the lot).


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> Just curious -- what do people think of square-enix as a company? When I was more into video games they were like the greatest in my mind, but it's been a while, and only just this year have I taken the time to get into some newer titles.


They made the best turn based RPG of all time just a few years ago. It was called Bravely Default.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Honestly I think the only Square Enix game I've played is Octopath Traveler , and really it's my gf that's playing it and I'm just nearby. I've never played more than a few hours of a FF game.


----------



## narad

I gave up on Octopath Traveler. So beautiful, but sort of clunky design at the heart of it with the 8 paths, etc.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Those who are interested have probably already seen this, but the ME Trilogy remaster was officially announced today:
https://www.ea.com/games/mass-effect/mass-effect-legendary-edition

It’s not entirely clear how much of an overhaul will be done on #1 (my overall favorite in the series), but any improvements to the gameplay itself would be welcome.


----------



## TedEH

Maybe I'm just an old man in some ways, but that series still seems too modern to really benefit from a remaster, outside of it being an excuse to sell it again on new consoles. But also lol @ not including Andromeda in it. That game got more hate than it deserved.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TedEH said:


> Maybe I'm just an old man in some ways, but that series still seems too modern to really benefit from a remaster, outside of it being an excuse to sell it again on new consoles. But also lol @ not including Andromeda in it. That game got more hate than it deserved.


nah it totally deserved the hate. also fuck me3 I'm still salty about the ending


----------



## Mathemagician

Well the first one came out 13 years ago. And it’s the only one I’ve played. But man, it blew my mind what RPG games could do suddenly. Then playing Dragon Age less than 2 years later. Wow. THAT was BioWare.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Ha! Never gave Andromeda a fair shake, but it definitely didn’t pull me in. As far as 3... lame as the ending was, it wasn’t enough to lessen my enjoying everything leading up to it.

To me, the first one can basically be taken as a stand alone. And being that the gameplay is definitely more dated than 2 & 3, that’s where I can see replay value added (assuming they do more than just add a new, less jittery coat of paint).

That said I’ll take just about any excuse to play them again. 

EDIT: Hell, I’d get in line for a KOTOR remake!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Quiet Coil said:


> Ha! Never gave Andromeda a fair shake, but it definitely didn’t pull me in. As far as 3... lame as the ending was, it wasn’t enough to affect my enjoyment of everything leading up to it.
> 
> To me, the first one can basically be taken as a stand alone. And being that the gameplay is definitely more dated than 2 & 3, that’s where I can see replay value added (assuming they do more than just add a new, less jittery coat of paint).
> 
> That said I’ll take just about any excuse to play them again.
> 
> EDIT: Hell, I’d get in line for a KOTOR remake!


a KOTOR remaster would be amazing


----------



## Quiet Coil

KnightBrolaire said:


> a KOTOR remaster would be amazing



Just playing it on a comfy console again (and not my phone) would be great!

If we really wanted to think big, they could spruce up 1 & 2, then bring it full circle with an all-new 3rd. As genuinely terrible as that idea sounds (seriously ), just imagine if they _actually_ pulled it off...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Quiet Coil said:


> Just playing it on a comfy console again (and not my phone) would be great!


I also demand a Dark Forces and Jedi Outcast remaster. Imagine them with the frostbite engine *drools*


----------



## wankerness

Given how unplayable the Jedi Knight 2 and Jedi Academy re-releases are, we might be dodging a bullet. They just are straight ports with no compensation for console controls so you're expected to have mouse/keyboard level accuracy with trashy console controllers. It's like extreme hardmode.

Not sure if there were PC rereleases, or if they're even necessary (did those games support higher resolutions? no idea)

I wish they'd just release the Mac version of Dark Forces for PC somehow. It was double the resolution and thus looked far better than the DOS version. I was horrified when I got a PC and tried to play through it again and saw how terrible the graphics were.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I can't wait to play 1 again. I tried to play it again a few years ago on my xbox 360 and it was so blurry. I only did one play through and loved it. After playing 2 I found a bit hard to go back with all the gameplay changes.

2 is one of the best games I've ever played. The story, the characters, the world and abundance of choices are at the peak of RPGs. Just an amazing game all round and the DLC was awesome too. The party members personalities and banter was on par with Baldurs gate 2. 

3 I just wasn't a fan of. 10 minutes in I knew something was very off. The ending got so much criticism that people didn't question the whole game as much as they should have. The DLC was cool though and should have been part of the core game. I don't think I could play the game again and have to deal with the Shepard dreams, listening in to conversations for several minutes to try get quests and of course the ending. 

I'll get it for 1 + 2 but I'll wait and see the reviews when its released first.


----------



## wankerness

I think that ME2 is by far the worst in terms of plot, but probably the best in terms of character and focus. The stuff with the collectors feels totally unrelated to the main threat introduced in 1, and 3 pretty much just follows 1's plotlines to their conclusion. 2 was like, a sidestory, or something. 3's stuck dealing with the illusive man and whatever they introduced in 2, but ultimately everything about 2 feels like a distraction from the reavers. And god, the final boss is one of the worst of all time and looked like it belonged in that Terminator 2 arcade shooter game. 3 is infinitely superior when it comes to plot and binding the series together, IMO. I don't mind the ending, but I would think even if you hate the ending you have to admit it did a lot of things very right.

The shooting mechanics in 1 are SO boring, especially when fighting bullet-sponges like Krogans, but I did like that you could fire sporadically (or infinitely, with the right mods) to avoid weapons overheating while 2 and 3 leaned hard on the BS "heat clip" reload thing that ended up making it feel like Gears of War. Not to say that 2 and 3 aren't massively better than 1 gameplaywise, but that's one area where I liked 1 more.

The actual combat in 2 and 3 was fantastic, and I loved that you could manually cast powers from your squadmates at enemies. They dumbed it down in Andromeda to the vast detriment. Like, it was a key part of battles being able to actually use the skills that you had your squadmates learn, especially when dealing with armored/shielded enemies. Andromeda, you just had a stupid "attack" command and that was it, they weren't guaranteed to actually use the ability you wanted them to in a timely fashion. That and the boring characters kind of sank Andromeda. I'd put it a slight notch below the overrated Dragon Age Inquisition. It's not BAD, but it is very disappointing in comparison to 2/3.


----------



## p0ke

ME1 was basically the ultimate game for me when it came out... But when 2 and 3 came out I had basically stopped playing video games and just sort of missed them. Still, I'd totally play any potential re-masters / remakes. 

Also +1 for KOTOR remakes - I beat KOTOR1 on Xbox One quite recently and was pretty far into KOTOR2 but it's just so horribly buggy, there's just no way I'll get through it... I'd be fine with some minor glitches and what not, but that game keeps breaking my save slots constantly


----------



## wankerness

I would recommend getting the PC version and downloading the bug fixes and loader. It was a smooth experience and the PC requirements are really low.


----------



## soliloquy

i'm not reading through the entire thread, but i'd love to see a remake of the first three metal gear solid games. with better graphics, better mechanics, and intelligence. 

though i assume that fighting phsycho mantis will be harder on the new generation as we cant change the control system. that will require something else.

anyone play metal gear solid one on ps4 and see how that goes?


----------



## MFB

So long as it doesn't go to Kojima to redo, so he can bog it down with pretentious BS and disjoint it like Phantom Pain. What could have been a really cool game gets bogged down by dumb recruitment mechanics and the base loadout/return, etc...


----------



## Choop

soliloquy said:


> i'm not reading through the entire thread, but i'd love to see a remake of the first three metal gear solid games. with better graphics, better mechanics, and intelligence.
> 
> though i assume that fighting phsycho mantis will be harder on the new generation as we cant change the control system. that will require something else.
> 
> anyone play metal gear solid one on ps4 and see how that goes?



On the PS1 Classics version with PS3, you gotta go in and assign your controller as controller 2. Not sure how something like that would be done in the future though, it doesn't have the same tricky feel as physically unplugging and switching a real controller port. :<


----------



## Nicki

1. Hybrid Heaven
2. Final Fantasy VI
3. DK64
4. Shadowman
5. Soldier of Fortune 1 & 2


----------



## 73647k

Nicki said:


> 1. Hybrid Heaven



I forgot all about this game, a remake would be a total mind fuck with the right studio attached to it


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

I'm overdue on my regular revisit of Terranigma, and I've harped on the game needing a remake, so I'll just quietly and quickly harp on it again. 

Also well settled under the Cold Steel 4 rock, a remake of the original Trails In The Sky trilogy would be fun (hell do the whole Crossbell duology too while you're at it). It still only a gen or 2 ago so it's not really something to rush over (plus these games take an eternity to localise) but after playing their respective protagonists (sans Sky 3rd) in the CS4 prologue was awesome.


----------



## Ralyks

Nicki said:


> 2. Final Fantasy VI



Shit, I'd even just take a port of VI at this point. Even though I see no reason why they couldn't throw FFI - VI in a collection. HD/4K it up, maybe fix some localization, trophies and achievements, and I'd be all good.


----------



## ElRay

1st Person POV 3D Lode Runner!


----------



## TheBlackBard

soliloquy said:


> i'm not reading through the entire thread, but i'd love to see a remake of the first three metal gear solid games. with better graphics, better mechanics, and intelligence.
> 
> though i assume that fighting phsycho mantis will be harder on the new generation as we cant change the control system. that will require something else.
> 
> anyone play metal gear solid one on ps4 and see how that goes?




https://www.player.one/metal-gear-solid-remake-development-bluepoint-games-rumor-138049


Same people that did Demon's Souls and Shadow of the Colossus, so assuming it's true, it'll be done faithfully.


----------



## Nicki

Ralyks said:


> Shit, I'd even just take a port of VI at this point. Even though I see no reason why they couldn't throw FFI - VI in a collection. HD/4K it up, maybe fix some localization, trophies and achievements, and I'd be all good.


The mobile version was ported to Steam, and the Playstation port was horrid. The GBA port was okay... but really, it deserves a remake. I really hate the ARPG turn the the FF series took. I want the classic turn based combat of FF back.


----------



## MFB

I played FFX for the first "real time" this year (I played it on release up to like, the Blitzball game and no further) and unfortunately turn based combat is - to me - a big break in the game experience. Like, it doesn't feel like it's a thing in the world at all; that you don't see an enemy before you get into a fight with it, and then you all neatly line up to take turns hurting each other?

I haven't played VIIR yet either, but the combat seems like it tried to blend the idea of switching characters and abilities with a real-time battle which is cool; so, if the enemies spawned out of view range and came into view as you wandered around then I feel like that's the best adaptation of turn-based to real time you could make.


----------



## thebeesknees22

FFX was awful. The story was just sooo bad, and FFX was the start of the real bad era of Square-enix. They've still yet to put out a decent game since FF9 except for the FF7 remake. They just forgot how to tell a good story. Or they lost all the people who knew how to write. The fanboy in me keeps buying all the FF's, but I couldn't even finish FF15. I think that company needs a big overhaul at the top. 

So far what I've seen on the trailer of FF16 looks maaaaybe promising story-wise, but I don't have high hopes... and the graphics look terrible compared to other things out there...like...real terrible. ..or maybe I'm just being extra harsh from being disappointed so many times over the last 20 years.


----------



## Ralyks

Ok, when I had FFX back in the day on PS2, I maybe got to where you having to get into Sin and dropped it and felt disappointed. When I bought it on PS4 a few years back? My appreciation for the game went up immensely. It really was a damn good JRPG.... That said, yes, some of the worst voice acting ever.



MFB said:


> I haven't played VIIR yet either, but the combat seems like it tried to blend the idea of switching characters and abilities with a real-time battle which is cool; so, if the enemies spawned out of view range and came into view as you wandered around then I feel like that's the best adaptation of turn-based to real time you could make.



See, if Squeenixnwas going in the ARPG route, VIIR is EXACTLY how they should have implemented it. One of the best RPG battle systems I've ever played, and it really does do a great job of combining action with turn base.


----------



## Randy

Nicki said:


> 4. Shadowman


"C'mon slowpoke!"


----------



## Nicki

Ralyks said:


> Ok, when I had FFX back in the day on PS2, I maybe got to where you having to get into Sin and dropped it and felt disappointed. When I bought it on PS4 a few years back? My appreciation for the game went up immensely. It really was a damn good JRPG.... That said, yes, some of the worst voice acting ever.
> 
> 
> 
> See, if Squeenixnwas going in the ARPG route, VIIR is EXACTLY how they should have implemented it. One of the best RPG battle systems I've ever played, and it really does do a great job of combining action with turn base.



The battle system in VIIR is just the battle system from XV which I wasn't a huge fan of. XV also had a really sub par story. I'm much more fond of turn based combat for JRPGs. When I played Dragon Quest XI, that was how I set up the battles to play like and it was a much more enjoyable experience for me.

I'm not bothering with VIIR since I didn't like the original at all and found the story to be a terrible rehash of FFVI. I did like X but only insofar as the gameplay goes. The story was... cheesy.

I do agree with @thebeesknees22 that SE hasn't put out a good single player FF game since IX. XI was fun and XIV is a damn near perfect MMO and I would never expect a classic FF formula for the battle systems in an MMO. So knowing it's different than the typical FF game and expecting as much made it really enjoyable for me. I really wish I had the time to get back into XIV.


----------



## Ralyks

Nicki said:


> I do agree with @thebeesknees22 that SE hasn't put out a good single player FF game since IX. XI was fun and XIV is a damn near perfect MMO and I would never expect a classic FF formula for the battle systems in an MMO. So knowing it's different than the typical FF game and expecting as much made it really enjoyable for me. I really wish I had the time to get back into XIV.



I'm actually reeaaalllyyy tempted to start FFXIV. Have it downloaded, and I think you can try it out up to level 30 for free.

Have to respectfully disagree about Visits combat system just being the same as XV. I could button mash in XV. That doesn't work as well in VIIR. But if you're not a fan of the story, all good. I loved it back in the day and felt they did a good job of expanding it here.

But man, IX is such a classic...


----------



## Nicki

Ralyks said:


> I'm actually reeaaalllyyy tempted to start FFXIV. Have it downloaded, and I think you can try it out up to level 30 for free.
> 
> Have to respectfully disagree about Visits combat system just being the same as XV. I could button mash in XV. That doesn't work as well in VIIR. But if you're not a fan of the story, all good. I loved it back in the day and felt they did a good job of expanding it here.
> 
> But man, IX is such a classic...


If you have the time to sink into an MMO, man go for it. XIV is so damn good. I played up until Stormblood and finished that x-pack's launch storyline but Heavensward is the one that turned me into a happy-crying baby because when I heard the re-orchestrated version of Matoya's Cave I balled my eyes out. It brought back so many memories of a 4 year old me chilling on the couch with my dad while he played FF1 on the NES.


----------



## ElRay

I was thinking of old games I loved and Obsidian (1997) came to mind. Especially since they had to trim it down and had to leave-out some of the graphics. E.G., the "VidBots" were all supposed to be fully animated.


----------



## Nicki

Edit: Blurp... Wrong Thread.


----------



## mlp187

@Nicki and @Randy I don’t know if you saw it, and it’s not a remake, but this game was available on steam a couple years ago. I built a budget PC just to play it. I have since found my Dreamcast (oops). 
Anyway, it seems it’s just a port of the dreamcast version.
Shadowman is one of my favorite games of all time, definitely top 5. I would love to see this one remade.


----------



## Nicki

mlp187 said:


> @Nicki and @Randy I don’t know if you saw it, and it’s not a remake, but this game was available on steam a couple years ago. I built a budget PC just to play it. I have since found my Dreamcast (oops).
> Anyway, it seems it’s just a port of the dreamcast version.
> Shadowman is one of my favorite games of all time, definitely top 5. I would love to see this one remade.


I still have it for N64 

Right now, Nightdive Studios owns the Shadow Man video game publishing rights, while Valiant Comics owns the IP. So ultimately it would be up to Valiant Comics to do a new video game and it's likely they would have to buy the publishing rights from Nightdive for the original in order to license publishing rights to another publisher for a remake to happen. But still.. it would be awesome. It was a really great game.


----------



## Spicypickles

Age of empires 2 would be dope.


----------



## Randy

Been a few years since I suggested Nightmare Creatures.


----------



## ResistentialAssultSquadron

Twister!


----------



## Randy

Altered Beast


----------



## ResistentialAssultSquadron

Randy said:


> Altered Beast



Wha? Maybe if they fixed the 3-frames-per-second gameplay...i want a new virtua fighter


----------



## Mathemagician

thebeesknees22 said:


> FFX was awful. The story was just sooo bad, and FFX was the start of the real bad era of Square-enix. They've still yet to put out a decent game since FF9 except for the FF7 remake. They just forgot how to tell a good story. Or they lost all the people who knew how to write. The fanboy in me keeps buying all the FF's, but I couldn't even finish FF15. I think that company needs a big overhaul at the top.
> 
> So far what I've seen on the trailer of FF16 looks maaaaybe promising story-wise, but I don't have high hopes... and the graphics look terrible compared to other things out there...like...real terrible. ..or maybe I'm just being extra harsh from being disappointed so many times over the last 20 years.



Wait until you realize that Squarenix also keeps rehashing the same damn storyline.

Kingdom Heart’s nonsensical time travel bullshit is literally a worse and watered down precursor to FF14’s eventual story, down the the “bad guys all wear black trench coats” details (or lack thereof).

FF14 has a fantastic story, but playing KH last year really made my eyes roll into the back of my head when I finally pieced together what was happening in KH nearly 15 years later. When it finally clicked and I could place the “why does it feel like I’ve played this before....?” sensation.


----------



## thebeesknees22

ughhghg.... I haven't played much of KH since the first one. That sounds terrible though.


----------



## Randy

Far Cry 2


----------



## StevenC

Assassin's Creed Valhalla


----------



## BlackMastodon

StevenC said:


> Assassin's Creed Valhalla


----------



## MFB

I love that gifs don't embed anymore, so the reply was as broken as Valhalla is!


----------



## Mathemagician

thebeesknees22 said:


> ughhghg.... I haven't played much of KH since the first one. That sounds terrible though.



[SPOILERS FOR KINGDOM HEARTS]
[SPOILERS FOR FF14]




Basically: bad guys “kill themselves” to separate their spirits from their bodies in order to travel across time and space to “make something happen that would give them power and hurt others”.

They’re a secret organization that all wear matching trench coats in a late 90’s techno-cool matrix manner.

The thing is FF14 being an mmo is a long enough game for hours and hour of exposition. So it’s cool enough (to me).

KH is a rushed convoluted mess spread across every bit of media they touch. With what feels like no focus. And now in KH the “body” and “heart” also separate from the “soul/spirit” so there’s 3 different fucking things.

Idk, the individual worlds are fun, but the “main story” of KH is a mess to me. I get just enough to go “oh the creator did it better in FF”.

I’m not playing 6 games to “get the details”. I’ll just enjoy it like a theme park. Fun levels and cool playing as classic characters.


----------



## BlackMastodon

MFB said:


> I love that gifs don't embed anymore, so the reply was as broken as Valhalla is!


Lame, it shows up okay for me. Sometimes if you quote the post and scroll down to the text box it's in there.


----------



## wankerness

BlackMastodon said:


> Lame, it shows up okay for me. Sometimes if you quote the post and scroll down to the text box it's in there.



It only shows up for you cause you already had it cached. Imgur seems to block sevenstring.org, specifically, and it's always been like that (i had to host things on photobucket or attach them to get them to show up). You have to copy/paste imgur embeds to see them on here. It's really annoying since I don't really think there are any viable alternatives anymore.


----------



## Nicki

I wouldn't mind seeing a Perfect Dark remake. Had loads of fund with that game on the N64.

Also, probably not a popular opinion, but I really think Final Fantasy XIII deserves to be remade. Once you look passed the fact that it was just one big long hallway, the game is actually pretty good. The battle system was enjoyable too and the story was pretty okay.


----------



## TedEH

Perfect Dark already had it's Rare Replay version - which I think was solid for what it was. There's supposed to be a new one in development currently, isn't there? That's... kinda like a remake? Maybe?


----------



## mmr007




----------



## Nicki

TedEH said:


> Perfect Dark already had it's Rare Replay version - which I think was solid for what it was. There's supposed to be a new one in development currently, isn't there? That's... kinda like a remake? Maybe?


I actually have the Xbox release of Perfect Dark 64 twice. I bought it when it was on XBLA a long time ago when I had my 360 and when I got my Xbox One, I bought Rare Replay for like $5.

But dang! I didn't even know about a new Perfect Dark in development! Looked at the trailer. Not much to go on right now, but sure does look pretty.


----------



## Manurack

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

I had this game on the first generation Xbox console, it was AMAZING! Choosing your own path as a Jedi Knight going down the Dark Side of the Force, or staying on the Light Side was so much fun.

I bought this game on the Xbox Marketplace about 5 years ago on my Xbox 360. A remake of this would be awesome.


----------



## wankerness

I watched a bunch of this and it made me depressed. I wish this would get leaked, somehow.

https://kotaku.com/heres-a-full-playthrough-of-that-canceled-goldeneye-007-1846166403


----------



## TedEH

I really wish Nintendo would just do a virtual-console type thing on the switch for more of their old material. I think if they basically had old SNES/N64/Gamecube etc emulators and sold the roms at like $3-5 each or something cheap like that - and open the library waaaaaaay up, every title they can get their hands on - they'd make a killing. And have a valid excuse for being so adamant about legal issues around emulation since they'd be actively engaging with those properties again.


----------



## wankerness

While Nintendo should do that, apparently it's all on MGM why Goldeneye is probably never seeing a rerelease. The list of demands they made for a rerelease was kind of hilarious (ex, Daniel Craig's face must be subbed in for Bond, no blood, no ability to kill civilians, no "good characters" being able to fight other "good characters" in multiplayer, etc). And that doesn't even get into the financials. Nintendo didn't do anything to stop Rare from putting out other Nintendo-published games like Banjo-Kazooie and Perfect Dark on xbox, and I think the only public statement they made about it was Reggie saying he hoped it would happen.

Again, I must express my shock at how great Perfect Dark was on 360. I never liked that game on N64, mostly cause of the awful framerate and the over-ambitious graphics making it so you couldn't tell what the heck was going on in multiplayer. But on 360, it was easily the most fun I ever had on XBL. It's really too bad shooters have almost entirely abandoned the outrageous mechanics of stuff like Unreal Tournament and Perfect Dark, where you get people throwing N-Bombs (yeah, that's what they were called) at each other while others just pilot missiles around in circles in big areas on the prowl and others shoot each other through walls or throw laptop gun turrets everywhere. It was comically unbalanced and you could hold as many weapons as you could find. It ruled.


----------



## TedEH

When I learned, a while back, that they made a new Quake multiplayer game that looked a lot like 3 Arena, I got excited 'cause I thought some of that old school janky fun arena shooting might be coming back, but then it turned out to be yet another shell of a game around a slot machine and I continued to be sad for the state of gaming.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> While Nintendo should do that, apparently it's all on MGM why Goldeneye is probably never seeing a rerelease. The list of demands they made for a rerelease was kind of hilarious (ex, Daniel Craig's face must be subbed in for Bond, no blood, no ability to kill civilians, no "good characters" being able to fight other "good characters" in multiplayer, etc). And that doesn't even get into the financials. Nintendo didn't do anything to stop Rare from putting out other Nintendo-published games like Banjo-Kazooie and Perfect Dark on xbox, and I think the only public statement they made about it was Reggie saying he hoped it would happen.
> 
> Again, I must express my shock at how great Perfect Dark was on 360. I never liked that game on N64, mostly cause of the awful framerate and the over-ambitious graphics making it so you couldn't tell what the heck was going on in multiplayer. But on 360, it was easily the most fun I ever had on XBL. It's really too bad shooters have almost entirely abandoned the outrageous mechanics of stuff like Unreal Tournament and Perfect Dark, where you get people throwing N-Bombs (yeah, that's what they were called) at each other while others just pilot missiles around in circles in big areas on the prowl and others shoot each other through walls or throw laptop gun turrets everywhere. It was comically unbalanced and you could hold as many weapons as you could find. It ruled.


I played so much Perfect Dark Zero offline with friends when it came out. I'll never understand why boys got cut from multiplayer shooters, especially with the prominence of map and custom mode makers in games these days.


----------



## MetalGravy

Parasite Eve II, minus the tank controls.


----------



## jojkett

I really hope a company like bluepoint gets to remake Metal Gear Solid - not like the exaggerated twin snakes version but the original


----------



## Leviathus

Not sure if someone said this already but Hunter: The Reckoning.


----------



## Randy

MetalGravy said:


> Parasite Eve II, minus the tank controls.



Would be cool as an 'over the shoulder' third person type game like the Resident Evil remakes


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Randy said:


> Would be cool as an 'over the shoulder' third person type game like the Resident Evil remakes



Aka just remake it like Resident Evil 4.


----------



## ThomasUV777

A rather unknown game, but I enjoyed Herc's Adventures so much on the PSX and I think I'd purchase & play that again in a heartbeat. I think DK64 has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread as well. If not: it should!

That being said, whenever I play remakes of games that I used to love, I often find my interest dwindles after 15 minutes or something. I'm always in the illusion that somehow, I'll get that same exciting feeling of inserting the disk / cartridge for the first time and being able to spend hours on the game. But then you realize that it's not the 90's anymore and you must continue this hellish joke we call life for another 60 years.

Sorry, I was out of Frosties this morning and I've been in a bad mood because of it all day


----------



## Demiurge

^I've got a tad fewer than 60 years left but I know the feeling. Video games are a prime nostalgia-delivery service, but even during a time when cheap comfort-food enjoyment is welcome, it doesn't quite hold up.

Of course, the extent of my gaming is now a sad session of Nintendo DS on the recumbent bike each morning at FML o'clock so it's real hard to get excited about anything.


----------



## wankerness

DK64 probably will never happen as long as Rare and Nintendo are separate companies. Nintendo doesn't seem to care if Rare releases their joint games like Banjo-Kazooie, but Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong are pretty serious Nintendo brand material. Maybe if they retitled it Big Monkey's Adventure and replaced Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong with some other generic gorilla/monkey, and then renamed all the other characters. I'd buy that for a dollar!!

I got like, 65% of the way through DK64 back in the day when it was new, but never finished it. It was just too damn big. I found the Official Player's Guide recently and bought it cause I have issues. Maybe someday I'll use it to finally finish, since N64 cartridges mostly still seem to have their save data intact.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> DK64 probably will never happen as long as Rare and Nintendo are separate companies. Nintendo doesn't seem to care if Rare releases their joint games like Banjo-Kazooie, but Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong are pretty serious Nintendo brand material. Maybe if they retitled it Big Monkey's Adventure and replaced Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong with some other generic gorilla/monkey, and then renamed all the other characters. I'd buy that for a dollar!!
> 
> I got like, 65% of the way through DK64 back in the day when it was new, but never finished it. It was just too damn big. I found the Official Player's Guide recently and bought it cause I have issues. Maybe someday I'll use it to finally finish, since N64 cartridges mostly still seem to have their save data intact.


I'd love a remake of DK64 as much as anyone and a sequel too. 

I genuinely think we could get one, too. Nintendo and Microsoft have been very friendly lately, with games like Ori seeing Switch releases and Banjo and Steve getting into Smash Bros. But even beyond that, Nintendo has full control of all the DK Rare games; they even released DK64 on the Wii U Virtual Console and have the DKCs on the Switch (maybe only 1 and 2 so far). They can probably remake it whenever they want. 

It would be interesting to see who'd be in charge of it though. Grezzo did all the Zelda games, so that's possible, but also Retro has done the last couple of DK games


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> I'd love a remake of DK64 as much as anyone and a sequel too.
> 
> I genuinely think we could get one, too. Nintendo and Microsoft have been very friendly lately, with games like Ori seeing Switch releases and Banjo and Steve getting into Smash Bros. But even beyond that, Nintendo has full control of all the DK Rare games; they even released DK64 on the Wii U Virtual Console and have the DKCs on the Switch (maybe only 1 and 2 so far). They can probably remake it whenever they want.
> 
> It would be interesting to see who'd be in charge of it though. Grezzo did all the Zelda games, so that's possible, but also Retro has done the last couple of DK games



Oh yeah, I guess I didn't think about Rare's involvement with the DKC games being on Switch. And yeah, I was playing DKC3 on there a couple weeks ago, I think it was newly added.

My guess is it won't happen until Nintendo shows some interest in getting N64 games on Switch. Currently the "virtual console" for that thing is a goddam desert compared to Wii/Wii-U. It's too bad. Nintendo's got a fantastic back-catalog and currently the only way to play much of their mid-period catalog effectively without either fancy input converters or an old CRT is to use a Wii or Wii-U. My Wii-U is a Zelda machine currently (working on Minish Cap and Skyward Sword right now, beat Majora's Mask on it, etc). 

I think my Wii can play physical gamecube games, but I've never tried it. I have only touched my gamecube once in the last 15 years, and that was to play a few rounds of Wario Ware with friends a year or two ago! Still an awesome game.


----------



## MFB

99% sure that was one of the main features of the Wii was that the disc drive also supported GC games


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> Oh yeah, I guess I didn't think about Rare's involvement with the DKC games being on Switch. And yeah, I was playing DKC3 on there a couple weeks ago, I think it was newly added.
> 
> My guess is it won't happen until Nintendo shows some interest in getting N64 games on Switch. Currently the "virtual console" for that thing is a goddam desert compared to Wii/Wii-U. It's too bad. Nintendo's got a fantastic back-catalog and currently the only way to play much of their mid-period catalog effectively without either fancy input converters or an old CRT is to use a Wii or Wii-U. My Wii-U is a Zelda machine currently (working on Minish Cap and Skyward Sword right now, beat Majora's Mask on it, etc).
> 
> I think my Wii can play physical gamecube games, but I've never tried it. I have only touched my gamecube once in the last 15 years, and that was to play a few rounds of Wario Ware with friends a year or two ago! Still an awesome game.


Smooth Moves is great, but Mega Party Game$ is my favourite game and I played it all the time with friends. Listen to the Doctor, Wobbly Bobbly and Milky Way Delirium are the best.

Your Wii should be able to play Gamecube games as long as it's pre 2011 or says RVL-100 on the back. The Wii disk reader was also far more reliable than the Gamecube.


----------



## wankerness

Yeah, I have one of the later black models so I wasn't sure, since I know companies like Sony loved to remove backwards compatibility from later models (ex, the PS3, where everyone will pay out the nose for the handful of remaining first generation editions since all subsequent ones couldn't do PS2). It has the gamecube controller/memory card ports on it so it's probably fine.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> Yeah, I have one of the later black models so I wasn't sure, since I know companies like Sony loved to remove backwards compatibility from later models (ex, the PS3, where everyone will pay out the nose for the handful of remaining first generation editions since all subsequent ones couldn't do PS2). It has the gamecube controller/memory card ports on it so it's probably fine.


Yeah, the RVL-101 removed the Gamecube compatibility and all the ports on top. So you're good.


----------



## Nicki

wankerness said:


> Oh yeah, I guess I didn't think about Rare's involvement with the DKC games being on Switch. And yeah, I was playing DKC3 on there a couple weeks ago, I think it was newly added.
> 
> My guess is it won't happen until Nintendo shows some interest in getting N64 games on Switch. Currently the "virtual console" for that thing is a goddam desert compared to Wii/Wii-U. It's too bad. Nintendo's got a fantastic back-catalog and currently the only way to play much of their mid-period catalog effectively without either fancy input converters or an old CRT is to use a Wii or Wii-U. My Wii-U is a Zelda machine currently (working on Minish Cap and Skyward Sword right now, beat Majora's Mask on it, etc).
> 
> I think my Wii can play physical gamecube games, but I've never tried it. I have only touched my gamecube once in the last 15 years, and that was to play a few rounds of Wario Ware with friends a year or two ago! Still an awesome game.



I take it you're happy about the Skyward Sword HD announcement since you'll be able to play that one on the switch. I am. I'm one of the few people that actually really liked Skyward Sword.

Also, you have to 100% DK64 otherwise you can't actually beat the game :\. I did way back in the day on the N64. Took bloody forever and the arcade game was the worst of it.


----------



## TedEH

I liked Skyward Sword too, but I'm not sure I'm sold on needing a new release of it. To me, a remake or re-release only really makes sense if there's something that makes playing the original a challenge. It's super easy to get a Wii and copy of the original game (it's not a popular one, so the prices aren't stupid), there's no dramatic difference in the controls, the visuals, etc. The benefit is just an up-scale and being portable. Don't get me wrong, those are pretty cool for any game, but if we didn't live in a time where remakes/remasters/rereleases are the hip thing to do, I don't know who the intended audience would be.


----------



## wankerness

Nicki said:


> I take it you're happy about the Skyward Sword HD announcement since you'll be able to play that one on the switch. I am. I'm one of the few people that actually really liked Skyward Sword.
> 
> Also, you have to 100% DK64 otherwise you can't actually beat the game :\. I did way back in the day on the N64. Took bloody forever and the arcade game was the worst of it.



I hadn't heard about the Switch remaster. I just looked that up. I'm definitely interested, but we'll see what reviews say. I think the biggest defining feature of that game is how incredibly precise the combat has to be with directional sword swings in reaction to enemy dodges/attacks. It's very frustrating, but to put in a "regular" control mode where you just mash Y like every other Zelda seems like it would remove all the challenge from the game. And I am skeptical that the "motion control" mode will be as good as the Wii version. However, I think the graphics will look great. That game has some of the best visual design and character models of the series and the super low resolution of the Wii does not show them off to their best advantage.

I'm glad I gave up on DK64, then!



TedEH said:


> I liked Skyward Sword too, but I'm not sure I'm sold on needing a new release of it. To me, a remake or re-release only really makes sense if there's something that makes playing the original a challenge. It's super easy to get a Wii and copy of the original game (it's not a popular one, so the prices aren't stupid), there's no dramatic difference in the controls, the visuals, etc. The benefit is just an up-scale and being portable. Don't get me wrong, those are pretty cool for any game, but if we didn't live in a time where remakes/remasters/rereleases are the hip thing to do, I don't know who the intended audience would be.



Considering they're putting in a dummy-proof control mode and almost everyone's biggest problem with that game was the motion controls, I think this will open it up to a LOT more people. Not to mention the number of people that own a switch and would check this out is vastly higher than the number of people that would go out of their way to buy a used wii and a used copy of the game to check it out. And, the game's graphics could REALLY benefit from HD since it's got beautiful, detailed models but had teeny resolution that made things look very jagged unless you were up close. So there's a LOT of point to this re-release compared to many. I'd say it's the mainline Zelda game that by far the fewest people have played. Well, unless you count Zelda 2. 

I dunno if you've played the Wii-U remasters of Wind Waker and/or Twilight Princess, but there was most definitely a point with them. Wind Waker especially looks absolutely fantastic in HD. The original still holds up pretty well, but 4x3 gamecube resolution vs 720p constant 60 fps or whatever is no contest, and the draw distances and greatly superior controller (plus gyro aiming, which I never knew I wanted until I experienced it) also make it a joy to replay on the system. There's no reason to ever play the original again unless you're a video game historian (i know you kind of are).


----------



## MFB

There's rumors (again) of WW and TP coming to Switch this year for the 35 Anniversary of Zelda, which if true, along with SS and BoTW would probably make me throw down the coin for one just as a dedicated Zelda box.

I don't think the 3DS ports of Ocarina and Majora will ever make it over, just to keep that portable console alive (unless they're phasing them out due to the Switch's mobility and I just haven't heard), but to get the vast majority together would be nice.

edit: OK, so I didn't just make that up after typing it, it was announced back in Sept. that the 3ds was ending - so maybye, MABE, we'll eventually get them on Switch as well.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> I dunno if you've played the Wii-U remasters of Wind Waker and/or Twilight Princess, but there was most definitely a point with them.


I never owned a Wii U, so I never tried those ones. I don't know that I'd call myself a "historian", but I see what you mean. To me, a visual update isn't enough to sell me on a new version of the same game - especially when there isn't a huge gap in the end-resulting expression. From 2d to 3d, sure. From very early 3d to modern 3d, maybe. But games like Wind Waker were very well art-directed (in my opinion) and still stand up. The resolution isn't what made the art of those games (to me). The updates done to Majora's and OoT IMO didn't really improve the games at all. But if people see something they want in these rereleases, then I won't argue it.

What I would have really liked to see is a whole _bunch_ of Zelda ports rather than just the one. Being able to turn a switch into a glorified Zelda machine would be a pretty big selling point, kinda like what they did with Mario over the last few years.


----------



## MFB

Did OoT make any mechanical improvements? I think they just had to rework some elements based on the changes in controllers between then and now, but aside from that I believe it was just overhauling graphics/performance.


----------



## wankerness

MFB said:


> Did OoT make any mechanical improvements? I think they just had to rework some elements based on the changes in controllers between then and now, but aside from that I believe it was just overhauling graphics/performance.



I have barely played OoT's 3DS remake. I think it was just graphical and the obvious need for remapping buttons. I do know that almost everyone that's played it considers it the best version of the game, though. Majora's Mask I played a bit more of, that redid how a bunch of the boss fights went (massively improved the infamously bad boss fight at the sky temple, but arguably made some of the others worse), smoothed out some of the more inscrutable gameplay elements, and smoothed out some of the crappier controls (like aiming goron rolls).

I think quality of life improvements with game controls are another big selling point for remasters that are from systems with...unique controllers, like the N64 or Gamecube. A lot of original games might still certainly be PLAYABLE, but the new versions are still a much more pleasant experience. I think of the difference between Wii's Twilight Prince and Wii-U's as being particularly glaring. Having to shake the wiimote for all attacks got annoying fast, even if it was far less strenuous than Skyward Sword's "aim every swing" system. And you had no camera control, basically, while the remaster has the second stick react to camera moves the way you'd expect with a modern game. Also, both games stick your inventory screen on the Wii-U's second screen so you can switch items on the fly instead of having to pause the game and flip around through menus every time. It's a huge improvement in playability. It's not just graphics.

With the half-assed "remaster" that is the Super Mario 3D All Stars version of Mario 64 where it didn't improve the controls at all or change any gameplay, then I'm more with you on it being pointless. Mario Sunshine/Galaxy look considerably better and the controls are better in some regards, so those two I'd say are more worth it. But neither one of them comes close to the improvements of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess HD.


----------



## TedEH

MFB said:


> Did OoT make any mechanical improvements? I think they just had to rework some elements based on the changes in controllers between then and now, but aside from that I believe it was just overhauling graphics/performance.


Confession: I've never played all the way through OoT on the 64, so I don't know. In Majora's mask, they changed a bunch of the movement in ways that broke some of the original intent/design. It _looked_ a lot better and being able to carry the 3D Zelda games in your pocket is amazing, but IMO it was otherwise a worse version of the game. Very possible it's my nostalgia talking.

Ooooh yeah and the boss fights. I didn't like the boss fight changes.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I don't remember a change in the MM remake's boss fights, but I got stuck in Ikana Canyon and didn't make it to the Eastern Mountains temple. What did they change around?


----------



## TedEH

All the bosses were reworked at least a bit and had this big blobby weak point added to them that didn't exist in the original. I think one or two of them also had extra phases added to the fights.


----------



## wankerness

The stone temple boss is like, completely unrecognizable. In the N64 one, the strategy was "put on the god mask and just hit him with your sword till he dies." The 3DS one has like, different phases and some challenge added.

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/majoras-mask-walkthrough/stone-tower-temple/#c12_6

Some of the others, especially the fish guy, also have pretty big differences beyond just adding a weak point. Check out the zeldadungeon walkthrough's pages on the bosses to see the strategies side by side.

Looking through that walkthrough also shows that a bunch of stuff in the dungeons has been shuffled around, especially fairy locations. I think they mostly were done with an idea of making it make more sense logically, since getting all those fairies on one day reset was a pretty tall order even without some of them being in bizarre places you'd probably never find without a guide.

I have only finished it on the N64 emulator version on Wii virtual console, so I'm no expert. I just have looked through the walkthrough a bunch and started it on 3DS.


----------



## TedEH

To me, the reworks weren't necessary at all - I had the game as a kid shortly after it came out, and had no problem with it. I could get to the end of the story (not counting getting all the masks) within a day if I worked at it. It's a game I'll have lots of opinions about 'cause I played tons of it, over and over again. The nostalgia is strong with that one.


----------



## oldbulllee

Sheep, Dog 'n' Wolf for PS1. i don't know when it was made but it's old. remember playing it like 20 years ago... never did i binge on a game that hard as with that one.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> To me, the reworks weren't necessary at all - I had the game as a kid shortly after it came out, and had no problem with it. I could get to the end of the story (not counting getting all the masks) within a day if I worked at it. It's a game I'll have lots of opinions about 'cause I played tons of it, over and over again. The nostalgia is strong with that one.



Exactly - the nostalgia is strong! That last stone temple boss fight is like, as close to objectively bad as you can get. You have three pretty good, pretty challenging bosses, and then that laughable joke of a boss that just walks around while you run after it and hit it with a sword till it dies, which was at the very end of one of the most difficult dungeons in Zelda history. It was ripe for a re-do, that's for sure.

On top of that terrible boss fight, it had some other issues. Not the least of which is how touchy the controls were, which is not very compatible with modern hardware (the N64 stick had quirks such as the octagonal bowl that allowed for easier precision than modern sticks with round bowls, and a LOT more precision than the 3DS pad). I failed over and over at some of the complex flight sequences and especially the touchy sequences where you had to roll the goron over a super-narrow bridge since holding a modern stick perfectly vertically is not as easy as on the N64 where you had grooves.

SPeaking of which, I played a bunch of Mario 64 yesterday, that shit is hard as nails with a modern stick. Walking vs running is SO touchy, and the way the game's camera often locks you into having to walk across narrow bridges at weird angles means that again, the N64's 8-way stick was a lot easier than the 360 degree motion you get with a modern controller.

The next time I move, I'm getting a CRT setup somewhere. I have two of those steelstick bowls ready to install on N64 controllers, it just isn't really worth it with how bad the N64 output is on my receiver/4K tv.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> The next time I move, I'm getting a CRT setup somewhere. I have two of those steelstick bowls ready to install on N64 controllers, it just isn't really worth it with how bad the N64 output is on my receiver/4K tv.


I had an old TV I kept around for this purpose - and it's a great solution, some of those old TVs still look great - but I ultimately ended up getting an upscaler (RetroTink mini) so that all my entertainment stuff could all live in the same place and use the same TV + sound system. If you're someone who's bothered enough by the lag+ugliness of old stuff on new TVs, I think it's worthwhile looking into.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> Exactly - the nostalgia is strong! That last stone temple boss fight is like, as close to objectively bad as you can get. You have three pretty good, pretty challenging bosses, and then that laughable joke of a boss that just walks around while you run after it and hit it with a sword till it dies, which was at the very end of one of the most difficult dungeons in Zelda history. It was ripe for a re-do, that's for sure.
> 
> On top of that terrible boss fight, it had some other issues. Not the least of which is how touchy the controls were, which is not very compatible with modern hardware (the N64 stick had quirks such as the octagonal bowl that allowed for easier precision than modern sticks with round bowls, and a LOT more precision than the 3DS pad). I failed over and over at some of the complex flight sequences and especially the touchy sequences where you had to roll the goron over a super-narrow bridge since holding a modern stick perfectly vertically is not as easy as on the N64 where you had grooves.
> 
> SPeaking of which, I played a bunch of Mario 64 yesterday, that shit is hard as nails with a modern stick. Walking vs running is SO touchy, and the way the game's camera often locks you into having to walk across narrow bridges at weird angles means that again, the N64's 8-way stick was a lot easier than the 360 degree motion you get with a modern controller.
> 
> The next time I move, I'm getting a CRT setup somewhere. I have two of those steelstick bowls ready to install on N64 controllers, it just isn't really worth it with how bad the N64 output is on my receiver/4K tv.


I went through Mario 64 on Switch recently and didn't really have any of those problems. My only issues were the Wing Cap bits and the over all sucky camera. Stick was fine for all the precision stuff.


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> I went through Mario 64 on Switch recently and didn't really have any of those problems. My only issues were the Wing Cap bits and the over all sucky camera. Stick was fine for all the precision stuff.



what controller did you use? I’ve been using the pro so I don’t wear out the joycons.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> what controller did you use? I’ve been using the pro so I don’t wear out the joycons.


Pro controller exclusively.


----------



## Randy

Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> Pro controller exclusively.



hmm. Guess you’re just better with it than me. I’ve never been able to do as subtle of movements with dual shocks as n64 controllers. It takes way less distance/force to switch between walk and run.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> hmm. Guess you’re just better with it than me. I’ve never been able to do as subtle of movements with dual shocks as n64 controllers. It takes way less distance/force to switch between walk and run.


Interesting. I guess the longer stalk of the N64 could allow finer control, more movement for the same angle. You even see this with like the Xbox Elite controller having a longer stick option.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Also well settled under the Cold Steel 4 rock, a remake of the original Trails In The Sky trilogy would be fun (hell do the whole Crossbell duology too while you're at it). It still only a gen or 2 ago so it's not really something to rush over (plus these games take an eternity to localise) but after playing their respective protagonists (sans Sky 3rd) in the CS4 prologue was awesome.



https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fa...ike-to-recreate-trails-of-the-sky-games-in-3d

Yes that would be nice actually...


----------



## p0ke

oldbulllee said:


> Sheep, Dog 'n' Wolf for PS1. i don't know when it was made but it's old. remember playing it like 20 years ago... never did i binge on a game that hard as with that one.



Agreed! I played the fuck out of the demo on PS1 back when it came out, it was awesome. I don't remember whether I ever bought the full game though...



StevenC said:


> I went through Mario 64 on Switch recently and didn't really have any of those problems. My only issues were the Wing Cap bits and the over all sucky camera. Stick was fine for all the precision stuff.



I've beaten Mario 64 on the actual N64 and on emulators with PS2 pads and og Xbox pads, and I didn't have any stick issues with the non-N64 pads...


----------



## wankerness

mlp187 said:


> @Nicki and @Randy I don’t know if you saw it, and it’s not a remake, but this game was available on steam a couple years ago. I built a budget PC just to play it. I have since found my Dreamcast (oops).
> Anyway, it seems it’s just a port of the dreamcast version.
> Shadowman is one of my favorite games of all time, definitely top 5. I would love to see this one remade.



There's a version of Shadow Man getting released this week on PC - I'm not sure if it's the same as this, or if it's a better remaster, but I saw it on a list today. It's actually called "Shadow Man Remastered" this time so hopefully they did something more to it.


----------



## mlp187

wankerness said:


> There's a version of Shadow Man getting released this week on PC - I'm not sure if it's the same as this, or if it's a better remaster, but I saw it on a list today. It's actually called "Shadow Man Remastered" this time so hopefully they did something more to it.


Holy shit this has me pumped. Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## Ralyks

What they shouldn't remake: the first Last of Us.


----------



## TedEH

I mean, there's not really any good reason to remake pretty much anything from the last 10 years or so IMO.


----------



## MFB

Man, going back to my childhood besides my desire for a Legend of Dragoon remake (that'll never happen) - I would love to see a remaster of MGS1. I don't care for all the extra frills that were added for Phantom Pain, it got overly bloated with menus and upgrades that weren't needed, but holy shit if I wouldn't throw down some coin for updated models/mechanics.

I just want Stealth games to not be dead


----------



## TedEH

MFB said:


> I just want Stealth games to not be dead


You could do like me and keep going back to the Thief and Dishonored games forever.


----------



## MFB

TedEH said:


> You could do like me and keep going back to the Thief and Dishonored games forever.



I bought the Dishonored Definitive edition on PS4 like a month ago! 

I had just the vanilla Dishonored some years ago on X360, and was only half interested in it and made it, maybe 10 mins total and it totally fell off my radar for whatever reason. I'm trying to wrap up Darksiders before I start it since I'm like half way through it, but with moving it's all been put on hold.

How are the Thief series? I know people loved 1-3(?), and then I think it was the self-titled or maybe it was actually called Thief 4, that everyone disliked enough to make you think the game came to life and shit on their chest. I've never played any of them, but I feel like mechanically they're probably dated by this point that it'd be missing the QoL we'd expect from a stealth game.


----------



## Ralyks

TedEH said:


> I mean, there's not really any good reason to remake pretty much anything from the last 10 years or so IMO.



Which is why I'm baffled they're doing it


----------



## TedEH

MFB said:


> How are the Thief series? I know people loved 1-3(?), and then I think it was the self-titled or maybe it was actually called Thief 4, that everyone disliked enough to make you think the game came to life and shit on their chest. I've never played any of them, but I feel like mechanically they're probably dated by this point that it'd be missing the QoL we'd expect from a stealth game.


I've posted about them in the other gaming thread pretty often but to sum it up:

Thief 1 is janky but a lot of fun. Does a lot of things that were novel for the time and sort of seminal for stealth games going forward. Modern PCs need you to play with OpenAL drivers to get positional audio working, but it's worth it. Story kinda goes off the rails at times but never gets outright dumb. Recommended.

Thief 2 takes everything about the first game and makes it better. When people talk about liking Thief, they're usually talking about this one. Level design is better, the narrative is tightened up, the sound still works great, has a ton of character. Really great at creating a sense of ownership of an area, feeling like you're sneaking around places you don't belong, hiding little things in the world to reward exploration, encouraging player agency, etc. Still janky in terms of visuals, but that never bothered me. This game is, IMO, where a lot of immersive-sim games get their inspiration.

Thief Deadly Shadows sort of console-ifies the formula and is still a pretty good game, but suffers from some movement janky-ness as a result of how the same movement applies in 1st and 3rd person views. It's still got most of the Thief character of the first two, but made a bit more palatable for your average console gamer. Huge visual upgrade from the first two though. Lots of atmosphere.

Thief (2014) is a huge visual and mechanical overhaul (as well as a narrative reboot) that alienated a lot of fans because it didn't adhere very closely to the things that made the other games good. If you had never played a Thief game before and were expecting a discount Dishonored, it's not a "bad" game despite having significant flaws (the worst of which is the loss of positional audio and frequent loading gates). Changing the main character's voice actor and personality were a pretty big slap in the face to fans too. It can be a lot of fun if you temper your expectations going in. I honestly think the visuals and presentation of this one are top notch, and there was a lot of potential, but the ball was dropped in some key areas preventing it from taking it's place as a solid "Thief" title.


----------



## StevenC

TedEH said:


> I mean, there's not really any good reason to remake pretty much anything from the last 10 years or so IMO.


There are a lot of QTEs to remove


----------



## Werecow

TedEH said:


> I've posted about them in the other gaming thread pretty often but to sum it up:
> 
> Thief 1 is janky but a lot of fun. Does a lot of things that were novel for the time and sort of seminal for stealth games going forward. Modern PCs need you to play with OpenAL drivers to get positional audio working, but it's worth it. Story kinda goes off the rails at times but never gets outright dumb. Recommended.
> 
> Thief 2 takes everything about the first game and makes it better. When people talk about liking Thief, they're usually talking about this one. Level design is better, the narrative is tightened up, the sound still works great, has a ton of character. Really great at creating a sense of ownership of an area, feeling like you're sneaking around places you don't belong, hiding little things in the world to reward exploration, encouraging player agency, etc. Still janky in terms of visuals, but that never bothered me. This game is, IMO, where a lot of immersive-sim games get their inspiration.
> 
> Thief Deadly Shadows sort of console-ifies the formula and is still a pretty good game, but suffers from some movement janky-ness as a result of how the same movement applies in 1st and 3rd person views. It's still got most of the Thief character of the first two, but made a bit more palatable for your average console gamer. Huge visual upgrade from the first two though. Lots of atmosphere.
> 
> Thief (2014) is a huge visual and mechanical overhaul (as well as a narrative reboot) that alienated a lot of fans because it didn't adhere very closely to the things that made the other games good. If you had never played a Thief game before and were expecting a discount Dishonored, it's not a "bad" game despite having significant flaws (the worst of which is the loss of positional audio and frequent loading gates). Changing the main character's voice actor and personality were a pretty big slap in the face to fans too. It can be a lot of fun if you temper your expectations going in. I honestly think the visuals and presentation of this one are top notch, and there was a lot of potential, but the ball was dropped in some key areas preventing it from taking it's place as a solid "Thief" title.



I'm still debating with myself whether to try 2014 after my current Deadly Shadows run is done. I struggle with the changes in Deadly shadows to be honest. I've always boiled it down to 2014 not even having a jump function/button and _nope_ out of it.


----------



## TedEH

IMO, I'd give it a shot if you own it already, but if you would have to seek it out and buy it, I can't fault anyone for passing on this one.


----------



## Ralyks

Oni


----------



## BlackMastodon

Ralyks said:


> Oni


First game I got on my PS2, even before I had a memory card so I got very good at clearing the first 3-4 missions in one sitting. The third person shooting was pretty rough, particularly with the sniper Rifle that couldn't zoom, but damn was the hand to hand combat ahead of its time. Would love to see a full remake of it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Ralyks said:


> Oni


THIS. But with actually good controls ffs.


----------



## DiezelMonster

Interstate 76 and Rise of the Robots

Really dating myself here....


----------



## Marked Man

DiezelMonster said:


> Interstate 76 and Rise of the Robots
> 
> Really dating myself here....



Hold my beer. 

I always loved video games as a young kid, but I really got deep into them during the first gen of D&D role playing games. The best of these to me was Pool of Radiance. Great, epic story line. I'd like to see that and Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, etc, rest of that series faithfully remade. And of course change some things just enough to make them new adventures without losing the core story. 

I remember that I discovered Candlemass around the same time Pool of Radiance came out and always thought "A Sorceror's Pledge" was a sort of theme for Yarash the Sorceror or another like him, and would sometimes listen to music of that type while playing since there wasn't much game music at the time. I can imagine how well a great designer could redo the Yarash quest, Valhingen Graveyard, Sokol Keep, etc. Ahh epic times, and summer days seemed 25 years long then......


----------



## DiezelMonster

Marked Man said:


> Hold my beer.
> 
> I always loved video games as a young kid, but I really got deep into them during the first gen of D&D role playing games. The best of these to me was Pool of Radiance. Great, epic story line. I'd like to see that and Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, etc, rest of that series faithfully remade. And of course change some things just enough to make them new adventures without losing the core story.
> 
> I remember that I discovered Candlemass around the same time Pool of Radiance came out and always thought "A Sorceror's Pledge" was a sort of theme for Yarash the Sorceror or another like him, and would sometimes listen to music of that type while playing since there wasn't much game music at the time. I can imagine how well a great designer could redo the Yarash quest, Valhingen Graveyard, Sokol Keep, etc. Ahh epic times, and summer days seemed 25 years long then......



I totally remember those although I didn't play them, I was a devout reader of PG Gamer and other mags back then, I started playing Doom in 1993, thats when I got my first PC

It would be great for them to re-make those games.


----------



## Nicki

Thought of this gem today:


----------



## spudmunkey

DiezelMonster said:


> Interstate 76 and Rise of the Robots
> 
> Really dating myself here....


Only because rise of the robots was a cool concept, but executed soooooo badly.


----------



## dr_game0ver

We need a new Jedi Knight game. Also Fuel, colony wars, Maximo, both Dark Alliance and Norrath series, Army men, Urban chaos, Primal, Soul Reaver, Enclave, Unreal Championship, Flatout, Both Riddick games, Jade Empire, Knights of the temple... Just a few.


----------



## TedEH

dr_game0ver said:


> We need a new Jedi Knight game


I think they could have slapped the Jedi Knight title on Fallen Order and it would have fit right in.


----------



## BlackMastodon

We're also getting a Baldur's Gate 3 official release next year, already out in early access. 

Also I remember getting stuck on the 2nd or 3rd boss in Shinobi back in the day and saying fuck it. Annoying-ass old man that hides in his backpack and spawns dogs holding katanas or some shit.


----------



## MFB

BlackMastodon said:


> Also I remember getting stuck on the 2nd or 3rd boss in Shinobi back in the day and saying fuck it. Annoying-ass old man that hides in his backpack and spawns dogs holding katanas or some shit.



I remember getting a decent bit in, and then IIRC, the sword starts to drain your health when you used it and then it recovered when you killed enemies and absorbed their essence (which I believe Ninja Gaiden also had a similar weapon, maybe Doku's swords?) but it was like, that's your ONLY weapon and it kills you to use it so it makes combat harder by default. So why should I want to continue playing? I stopped shortly after so I don't recall if it resolves or not, but to 11/12 year old me, I had never been so insulted.


----------



## Nicki

dr_game0ver said:


> We need a new Jedi Knight game.
> 
> ...Dark Alliance...
> 
> ...Soul Reaver...
> 
> ...Both Riddick games...





TedEH said:


> I think they could have slapped the Jedi Knight title on Fallen Order and it would have fit right in.



@TedEH nailed it with the Jedi Knight/Fallen Order. 

The new Dark Alliance game just came out. It's not good.

Soul Reaver remaster is expected to be announced this year according to Shpeshal_Nick

Riddick movie #4 with tie-in game is a possibility.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I think they could have slapped the Jedi Knight title on Fallen Order and it would have fit right in.



I dunno. The three of them I played were pretty tied to FPS mechanics (in 2/3 you didn't even get a lightsaber for several levels and you had to manually aim everything, force powers included) and at least the first three (DF, DF:JK, and JK2:JO) had the same protagonist. Maybe Jedi Academy would have served as a bridge, I never played it. I just figured Fallen Order had more in common with the third-person actioners that I also never played like Force Unleashed 1/2.


----------



## TedEH

I think if you skipped Jedi Academy, that would have been the bridge - that one was my entry to the series, so it's how I tend to think of them all. Those games slowly progressed from Doom clone to 3rd person lightsaber action adventure over each iteration. If you follow that path, to me something like Fallen Order fits into the pattern. IMO.


----------



## Marked Man

DiezelMonster said:


> I totally remember those although I didn't play them, I was a devout reader of PG Gamer and other mags back then, I started playing Doom in 1993, thats when I got my first PC
> 
> It would be great for them to re-make those games.



To this day I still occasionally read/buy classic '80s/90s D&D modules just to read the modules and back stories. I only played the original D&D board game on a single day as a young kid, but my friend with this game moved away, and the video game versions came out soon after, so that was that. 

Which reminds me, I'd really love to see a modern, high budget game series of the Ravenloft/Strahd von Zarovich world. I'd be all over that.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I know this is the remake thread, but is anyone else sick of them at this point?

I missed the square enix announcements at e3 and watching a recap video had me do a double take, why are they remaking Life is Strange? That game is barely 6 years old, and the updates look marginal at best, so how is it not just some massive cash grab.

I feel like the only company that can reasonably port/remake content is Nintendo to make up for the colossal fail of the WiiU. It just feels like if a game isn't a decade old or *completely *unavailable from all ways to play it, it shouldn't be ported/remade


----------



## thebeesknees22

I don't mind the remakes. There's only one I really want, and that would be a full remake from the ground up of FF6. 

I don't see square ever doing it though. It's a generation too old for anyone to really care.


----------



## TedEH

I tend to complain pretty often about the state of games - how we're slowly transitioning to just remakes and the odd iterative sequal, how once-good franchises are turning into lootbox-filled cash-grabs, how online requirements are giving games an expiry date for no reason, how single player experiences have taken a back seat to competitive genres and cramming battle-royale modes into things like we used to do with zombie modes, how games are all becoming "services" instead of one-off products to make sure we can continue to monetize after initial sales, how DLC often sells you on the feeling of not having a whole product, how "early access" has normalized the practice of selling incomplete products, how the market is so flooded with samey time-padded titles and mountains of indie games that the consumer feels guilt at not completing their blacklog that they paid for while combating the urge to keep up with the community, and how modern games tend to only target the latest and greatest despite those being luxury items and leaving those who can only afford to be a generation behind to deal with crummy, sometimes unplayable, experiences, how we deal with preservation poorly, how we deal with scalpers poorly, etc etc etc.

But hey, what do I know.
Games are great. But they also suck. But they're also great.

I almost kinda wish that rather than remaking games, we could remake _platforms_ that we could use the play the games we already have. Like if MS sold _the ultimate Win 98_ machine with proper drivers and support so that you didn't have to hunt down grimey old parts or fiddle with VMs. They could package it up as a VM / sandbox and if you happen to break it you just nuke it and restore to the image.


----------



## Choop

thebeesknees22 said:


> I don't mind the remakes. There's only one I really want, and that would be a full remake from the ground up of FF6.
> 
> I don't see square ever doing it though. It's a generation too old for anyone to really care.



To add to the impossibility pile, I've always wanted a sprite-based demake of FF7, in the same sprite style as FF6 haha. It'd be so charming! Horrible business decision, but w/e.


----------



## wheresthefbomb

Really disappointed with the D2:resurrected announcements, seems there's no intent to make the game compatible with newer mac OS and the Single Player community is being summarily ignored because they don't have any high profile streamers pulling down ad revenue on youtube. 

Honestly all graphical and quality of life updates can piss off, I'd settle for them supporting the original release for the platforms it's supposed to work on.

I'm getting to the point where new games don't interest me and all the ones i used to like are getting harder and harder to run on new machines and I'm getting carpal tunnel from work so it's not in my bester interest to play them anyway. HARRUMPH!


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

What Ted said. The problem is that the gaming industry isn't exactly known for their preservation. It's also evolving at a much faster rate than most medium. Lack of backwards compatibility for years certainly didn't help since it shuns away the past. Old games be it good (retro classic) or bad (unplayable or obsolete) are good learning lessons for modern or upcoming games. But with backwards compatibility often shunned until only recently, the only way to preserve the games is to remaster or remake them. Odd prospect but that's where we're at. I actually don't mind repaying for a remastered game I've played (or never got the chance to play) a decade or 2 prior, especially when it comes to the 5th gen games that seem to have aged worse than the 16 bit era. But I also won't pay 20 bucks for Balloon Fight. 

Granted that there has been some great remakes that keep the spirit and feel of the original (Strider). And you got Stardew Valley, which is just Harvest Moon, but has evolved to a game much better than either Harvest Moon and Story Of Seasons in their current state. Arguably you can also throw in every subsequent Zelda game ever since they're all just remakes of the previous game harkening back to the first (not counting Zelda 2 or the CDR abortions).


----------



## TedEH

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Old games be it good (retro classic) or bad (unplayable or obsolete) are good learning lessons for modern or upcoming games.


While I hear this kind of thing a lot - excuse me while I switch into grumpy old man mode again - I honestly don't think people care _that_ much about trying to learn from old/obsolete/obscure games. They're interesting curiosities and make for good youtube content snippets, but for all the devs I've known, not a single one has ever gone back and said "ok, I need access to some obscure NES title that nobody liked, for research, so I can figure out how to do better". No - we want preservation so that we can play classics and ride the nostalgia thing without feeling like we're being gouged for it (or in some cases we just want free crap).


----------



## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Arguably you can also throw in every subsequent Zelda game ever since they're all just remakes of the previous game harkening back to the first (not counting Zelda 2 or the CDR abortions).



Uhh...there's a very, very big difference in gameplay between say Link's Awakening (remake or original) and Wind Waker, vastly more so than the average difference between 3D action games from different publishers. Or even much closer relatives, like Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time, are VERY different from one another. MM is absolutely not a remake of what came before. You could rather disingenuously argue that all 2D zeldas are the same and that thus only the most recent is worth playing, or that OoT/WW/TP/SS are all iterations of each other, but I've never heard of anyone that ranked them in quality in order of newest to oldest. And BOTW is absolutely not the same thing as the previous games due to the total change in how power/item acquisition/dungeons worked, and how it shifted all the focus to exploration. Zelda games are really not much more "the same game" as any members of games in the same genres from different publishers. 

I think you're stretching the term remake a lot farther than it should be!


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> You could rather disingenuously argue that all 2D zeldas are the same and that thus only the most recent is worth playing


I wouldn't fault someone for this one - the 2d Zeldas are pretty formulaic. I just finished Oracle of Ages and it kinda felt like a slightly-worse retread of Links Awakening. Not a bad game, but not exactly a super distinct experience.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> Uhh...there's a very, very big difference in gameplay between say Link's Awakening (remake or original) and Wind Waker, vastly more so than the average difference between 3D action games from different publishers. Or even much closer relatives, like Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time, are VERY different from one another. MM is absolutely not a remake of what came before. You could rather disingenuously argue that all 2D zeldas are the same and that thus only the most recent is worth playing, or that OoT/WW/TP/SS are all iterations of each other, but I've never heard of anyone that ranked them in quality in order of newest to oldest. And BOTW is absolutely not the same thing as the previous games due to the total change in how power/item acquisition/dungeons worked, and how it shifted all the focus to exploration. Zelda games are really not much more "the same game" as any members of games in the same genres from different publishers.
> 
> I think you're stretching the term remake a lot farther than it should be!



A stretch perhaps but if you break the mainline Zelda series to it's core and they're no different. You're the legendary hero off the save the princess by exploring Hyrule, grabbing the usual sword and slicing the usual pork chop. Same formula. Everything you said are secondary built and elaborated in that foundation. Zelda 2 had the gall to change the main gameplay, which is something most modern games wouldn't dare to try today... okay they're usually called spinoffs like Halo Wars but in the context of the late 80s it was a quantum leap.

Storywise Zelda was never sophisticated but Links Awakening and Majoras Mask became more interesting than the mainline titles since they ditched the usual formula and put Link in new and different situations. Zelda 3 is just Zelda 1 but bigger. Ocarina is just Zelda 3 in 3D but replace parallel world with a time jump. Twilight Princess is just Ocarina with the Emo meter jacked up. The derivatives are a welcome change, even if it doesn't always work (Spirit Tracks).

Obviously there are some elaborate ways Nintendo shaking things up like Wind Waker's vast ocean or Skyward Sword's crappy skybox and forced motion controls, or Breath Of The Wild's open world, which if you strip down to it's core is really just a modern day Zelda 1... or a curent gen A Link Between Worlds. 

I guess I'm saying some new ideas would be welcome for a series known for re recording the same song for 40 odd years. The Dynasty Warriors pastiche games are a dip in new waters since it allows you to play with different characters and not the same elf dude, so that opens new possibilities. Even Mario has dipped in to different territories like the Paper and Yoshi series. Zelda and co could do the same.


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## TedEH

For as much as I like the Zelda formula, I'd be down to see what happens when you turn it into an RPG or something.

Or someone should turn it into a shooter somehow. The Legend of ZelDoom.


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## Bloody_Inferno

Here's one off the top of my head:

Zelda stealth game based on the Gerudos. Take elements from the first 2 Thief games and have them go around stealing stuff from different corners of the world, doesn't have to be Hyrule. 

And to make it different from a Thief pastiche, weave Ganondorf's origin into the story, and not as a primary focus either.


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## Choop

It's cool to see how older games (albeit solid classic older games) inspire newer games from a different perspective. Take the dungeons from a Zelda game but make that the entire game, throw in rogue lite elements and tongue-in-cheek humor with creepy occult symbology and boom! You got The Binding Of Isaac.

Sorry if it's been said already, but a couple game series that would be neat to see a remake/reboot/sequel of would be the Legacy of Kain and MediEvil games! Got spooky games on the brain today. I imagine a Legacy of Kain game now would probably play (and look) similarly to Darksiders.


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## TedEH

Agreed on the general point, but I'd be perfectly happy straying from the sort of "fad" genres that indies seem to latch onto. There are _mountains_ of rogue-likes/lites and metroidvanias now.  I kinda feel like we're due for a new genre of game.


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## Choop

I like rogue-lites to an extent, like with anything else it just depends on how it's done (there are definitely a bunch of lazy rogue-lite infused games out there). Not sure what a new genre of game could possibly be at this point, but that could be fun to think about! Maybe a possible new thread idea.


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## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> A stretch perhaps but if you break the mainline Zelda series to it's core and they're no different. You're the legendary hero off the save the princess by exploring Hyrule, grabbing the usual sword and slicing the usual pork chop. Same formula. Everything you said are secondary built and elaborated in that foundation.



If you boil it down THAT far and say gameplay mechanics are "secondary," you get HUNDREDS of games that would qualify as being the same game! After all, at their core, they're almost all navigating a fantasy world to solve some arbitrary goal while shooting/stabbing things. I think "setting of Hyrule" is more secondary to a game actually being a different experience than actual gameplay mechanics, not the opposite, as you suggest. Like, Majora's Mask has the time limit thing as the main part of the gameplay experience in a lot of ways, and BOTW's experience for a lot of people is vastly more "explore the world" than "save the princess."

They ARE part of the same series, so I don't get what you want from them and how you'd be able to define them as something other than "remakes." What's a game series that ISN'T a bunch of remakes, in your opinion? Sounds like some of the big major long-running series wouldn't count for you.

Ex Metroid - "they're all the same cause you're always Samus shooting things with lasers"
Mario (discounting side-series like Paper Mario) - "they're all the same cause you're always a character and you always can jump"
Final Fantasy - "they're all the same cause you're always in a fantasy world with teammates"
Halo, Uncharted, etc actually ARE pretty much the same game over and over. But the Nintendo things seem like a stretch.


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## bostjan

I actually hate games nowadays. Everything has to be connected to the internet to work, it's too much pay-to-win when it's multiplayer, tutorials are too long and boring.

I was just over at our sons' house, and our oldest was playing a new game he just got, and, I timed it- more than 30 minutes before there was even an option to skip a cutscene. Then it was several minutes of quick-time events, and then, after all of that, a tutorial. That's ridiculous! Just watch a movie, then.

I think a great game could be made in any genre, but cutscenes, quick-time events, and tutorials should be only used when it adds something to the experience, not something to pad the play time and bog progress down.


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## TedEH

bostjan said:


> tutorials should be only used when it adds something to the experience


Sometimes people look at me funny when I say this, but I think the same of crafting. Too many games have crafting for no reason and it makes the game worse.


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## Werecow

TedEH said:


> Sometimes people look at me funny when I say this, but I think the same of crafting. Too many games have crafting for no reason and it makes the game worse.


Crafting, plus open-world, and "progression" as well for me. They all have their place, but they often seem to be tickboxes that publishers want now.
The progression thing is horrid in some cases. There are lots of people out there playing games they actually don't particularly like, just for getting more XP, or skins, or levels, or whatever. It's bonkers. Of course the publishers love that, because it means more microtransactions.


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## TedEH

Sort of on topic for the thread:
LGR just posted a video about a guy who re-implemented Duke Nukem II without having the original source to work off of.
And it has a web version:
https://rigelengine.nikolai-wuttke.de/


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## wankerness

Werecow said:


> Crafting, plus open-world, and "progression" as well for me. They all have their place, but they often seem to be tickboxes that publishers want now.
> The progression thing is horrid in some cases. There are lots of people out there playing games they actually don't particularly like, just for getting more XP, or skins, or levels, or whatever. It's bonkers. Of course the publishers love that, because it means more microtransactions.



I like progression in 1 player games. I don't like games where you are static for the whole game in power level as much, I guess. I'm big on needless RPG mechanics. 

If you're talking about multiplayer shooters, yeah. There's about to be a real reckoning with that bullshit. Basically, machine-learning aim-assist is finally being perfected, a really good one came out a week or so ago, and it's COMPLETELY undetectable via cheat scan mechanics because of how it does inputs (it's like super-auto-aim instead of the instant snap-tos with traditional aim-bots, and it runs on a SEPARATE COMPUTER so no scans of the player's computer will pick it up), and it works on console as well as PC. So, already some games like Apex Legends are becoming unplayable with an army of aim-assisted people just killing anyone that tries to play legitimately nearly instantly. There's vastly more incentive for players to just turn on the cheats and grind out the XP when there's huge grinds that are sped up by being good. And the more this spreads, the more "legit" players are going to just quit out of frustration and the more money the companies are going to lose. I think multiplayer shooters might be dead soon if this keeps up. And good! I HATE competitive multiplayer games, especially shooters, unless I'm purely playing with friends. And a lot of these games have made it difficult to only play with friends. And the XP grinds are just exacerbating peoples' desire to cheat instead of having fun. Go back to UT2004, where it was purely fun and there were no grinds, and I bet you'd have a lot less cheaters. Still some, but hey.

Crafting blows. I hate it. But, some people legitimately enjoy it. So, I don't really view it as a flawed mechanic, just one I don't like. The simpler the crafting system the better, IMO. I certainly will engage with it in games where it can be a huge part of gameplay/character progression like Skyrim or whatever, but usually I try to avoid it if you can get better weapons without using it, and if you can't, then I usually just try to do the bee-lines for crafting the best objects and skip any time wasted making any less-good items (ex Yakuza 7, Dead Space 3).


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> There's about to be a real reckoning with that bullshit.


At the same time, the way you just described it - feeling like there's no point for "legit" players is how a lot of people feel about those genres anyway. They've been incredibly inaccessible (IMO) for a long time already, and cheating has been a thing for a long time already, and people who do it on a "pro" level probably aren't playing with random people who are likely to use bots or something. I can see it making a dent and being a big headache for people, but I can't see it killing the genre.



wankerness said:


> I don't really view it as a flawed mechanic, just one I don't like. The simpler the crafting system the better, IMO. I certainly will engage with it in games where it can be a huge part of gameplay/character progression like Skyrim or whatever, but usually I try to avoid it if you can get better weapons without using it, and if you can't, then I usually just try to do the bee-lines for crafting the best objects and skip any time wasted making any less-good items (ex Yakuza 7, Dead Space 3).


In a lot of ways, it's the Skyrim-esque grindy crafting that I don't like. Or any game where you have to spend hours grinding for raw materials to feed into a process to make more materials to feed into a third final process to finally make something with a mild stat boost over what your enemies are going to drop anyway that will become obsolete in a few hours after you get it anyway. It's the grind. I hate the grind. It's not the fun kind of grind. It feels like doing a job, and I don't want playing a game to feel like doing a job. All the power to people are like that kind of thing, but it's not for me.

There are ways to do things that are technically "crafting" or crafting-adjacent that make sense and don't feel like a grind -> like if materials are abundant and a result of the core game loop anyway. If crafting is implemented in such a way that it's just a system to reinforce player expression/choice within the bounds of the core of the game loop, then sure. Beat a boss and it gives you juuuust enough materials to upgrade your weapon but with a choice of what stat to prioritize? Alright, fine. But I don't want to spend 50% of my playing time running around empty fields and beating up low level enemies for leather and plants that I then need to spend another 20% of my playing time in menus to do something useful with to support the rest of the time actually doing fun things.


----------



## Choop

wankerness said:


> I think multiplayer shooters might be dead soon if this keeps up. And good! I HATE competitive multiplayer games, especially shooters, unless I'm purely playing with friends.



Lol gawd.


----------



## bostjan

TedEH said:


> I don't want to spend 50% of my playing time running around empty fields and beating up low level enemies


Right. No one likes that. But, honestly, that's been a faulty game mechanic for decades. As much I love the Dragon Quest III / Dragon Warrior III, the amount of grinding required at certain points in the game sucks the fun out of it.

I feel like some of the modern games that people rave about (ahem Assassin's Creed) just seem to have too many of the flaws compounding on each other to make them at all enjoyable to me. I wonder if people play these games because they find them fun or because they are invested in the franchise.

I was hoping Doom (2016) would push things back into check. I'd love to see a reboot of Wolfenstein with a similar style and without weird demonic amulet powers (although that was still a pretty good game) or a Blake Stone reboot (does anyone under 40 even know about Blake Stone?!). I still play the old Heretic game a lot. I loved the quasi-medieval setting without the cumbersome RPG mechanics. If Heretic got remade, I have very little confidence that the developers would do so without adding in some garbage crafting or experience leveling system.


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## TedEH

Loooool Blake Stone. I played a lot of that. Or at least a lot of the demo/shareware versions.



bostjan said:


> No one likes that.


I think some people _do_ like that though. And so it stays. I assume that this is most of what grabs people who are really into something like Animal Crossing. Those games are just chore simulators at their cores. Same for people who spend their time hunting down trophies and achievements.


----------



## bostjan

TedEH said:


> Loooool Blake Stone. I played a lot of that. Or at least a lot of the demo/shareware versions.
> 
> 
> I think some people _do_ like that though. And so it stays. I assume that this is most of what grabs people who are really into something like Animal Crossing. Those games are just chore simulators at their cores. Same for people who spend their time hunting down trophies and achievements.



 Maybe I should put out a want ad for people to do the chores around my house, and I can pay them by emailing them digital trophies, then. 

But I guess you're right. I always thought it was more of a thing that we put up with hoping that a good game would start happening than something people enjoyed for the task itself. But then you had FarmVille or whatever over a decade ago that was just logging in routinely and doing the same tired old tasks to collect whatever meaningless thing, and it totally blew up. I actually never played FarmVille, so maybe I'm mischaracterizing it a little, but it sure *seemed* like that's all it was.


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## TedEH

Having been involved in a few mobile games that had sizable audiences, you'd be surprised which mechanics or details some people will latch onto.


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## wankerness

Dead Space 1 remake ala RE2/3 remakes confirmed, it will be "current gen" only ala Demon's Souls, but will get a PC version. I never played it, so cool. I think I have it on Steam and never played it, like most of my Steam library on my long-unused PC. I definitely played through 2 and 3 and enjoyed them (2 on 360, 3 on PC). First might be too scary for me, but hey. I'm sure there are plenty of people jazzed about this.


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## Ralyks

wankerness said:


> Dead Space 1 remake ala RE2/3 remakes confirmed, it will be "current gen" only ala Demon's Souls, but will get a PC version. I never played it, so cool. I think I have it on Steam and never played it, like most of my Steam library on my long-unused PC. I definitely played through 2 and 3 and enjoyed them (2 on 360, 3 on PC). First might be too scary for me, but hey. I'm sure there are plenty of people jazzed about this.



I’m jazzed. That first game was excellent. Never played the second two.


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## bostjan

Too bad there will never be a Silent Hill (1) remake. That was the first game I beat multiple times in a row. I busted it out not long ago, and was amazed at how much worse the graphics were than I remembered.


----------



## MFB

Dead Space 1 and 2 are horror classics, they're legitimately just RE4 in space. I'm hyped for this remake/remaster, and would love for it to relaunch the series.


----------



## mongey

TedEH said:


> Sometimes people look at me funny when I say this, but I think the same of crafting. Too many games have crafting for no reason and it makes the game worse.


100%

crafting, cooking , all that. I avoid it unless its something you need to do to progress the game .

I just finished Witcher 3 and didn't forge, cook or craft anything . just used stuff I found and ate raw food


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## Ralyks

I can deal with crafting. Weapon durability can fuck itself. Probably the reason I never got that far in Breath of the Wild.


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## BlackMastodon

I think I've said it before in this thread but weapon durability seems like such an antiquated feature and I kinda can't believe that Nintendo put it in BotW. The only reason I can think of is to encourage the use of different weapons and variety in play. Otherwise in games like Diablo it's totally pointless. At least in Divinity Original Sin 2 I think your durability only goes down when your character dies.


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## TedEH

I dunno that antiquated is quite the word for it - I've never thought of it as an "old" mechanic, especially not compared to all the other things we still do in games for some reason: hearts, lives, generic-fantasy-guy-with-sword stories, etc.


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## Choop

Weapon durability is mostly OK, it's just that in BotW the items appear to deteriorate way too quickly.


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## TheBlackBard

Weapon durability in Diablo 3 is especially pointless given that unless you are just terrible with managing your gold, it's merely something to do at the blacksmith. It's usually a negligible amount of gold, especially compared to how much drops. You could have gold in like 10 figures, and your repair bill after a rift or something might be four digits at most.


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## wankerness

The games I’ve played where it pissed me off the most were Fallout 3, BOTW, and dark souls 2. Usually it’s mostly ignorable and just a thing you have to do at a vendor periodically, making it pointless. BOTW it’s to force weapon variety, and you can’t repair weapons so it’s not just a gold sink, so I get it, I just hate it since durability doesn’t scale at the same rate as number of swings required to kill the average enemy.

ds2, your weapons lost durability faster the more you upgraded them and you could get screwed if you went too long between bonfires and didn’t have either repair powder or a backup weapon. It was mostly an annoyance, I guess probably designed to encourage variety. I guess at least it had more of a point than DS1 where it only mattered if you went a realllllly long time without repairing at the smith and suddenly your weapon would give a low durability warning and you’d panic!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mongey said:


> 100%
> 
> crafting, cooking , all that. I avoid it unless its something you need to do to progress the game .
> 
> I just finished Witcher 3 and didn't forge, cook or craft anything . just used stuff I found and ate raw food


On harder difficulties in witcher you absolutely need to craft potions/cook and forging weapons. It makes a massive difference in combat. The older games are even less forgiving about it as well.


----------



## TedEH

I think I'd be willing to even go as far as saying weapon durability should stay in BotW 2. I didn't hate it. Could be tweaked for sure, but it's not like the game wasn't constantly throwing new weapons at you. In a game that lets you pick up any of the bajillion weapons around, I think something like it is necessary. The alternative would be the "classic" inventory style of just a fixed set of things you either have or don't have, which has it's own merits but feels a lot less dynamic / open-world-y to me. In my eyes the mechanic was appropriate to the game.

You know when you're playing a game and have that urge to pick up and carry everything that isn't bolted down and you end up playing inventory management throughout the whole thing 'cause you just can't have everything at once? The BotW weapon durability, to me, felt like a cure for that. You don't have to get so attached to any one weapon cause you won't have it forever, and there's always a place for the stream of new cool things to hit monsters with that the game throws at you.


----------



## StevenC

You guys aren't using bows enough. It's really easy to get loads of really good bows and they're relatively very durable.

The difficulty is balanced in such a way that you won't fight anything that can wipe your supply of weapons until you've got strong enough weapons that deal more damage and have better durability to counteract that.

And like, there are weapons everywhere that all have different playstyles, and don't forget to throw them when they're about to break for more damage and get in another arrow headshot.


----------



## mongey

KnightBrolaire said:


> On harder difficulties in witcher you absolutely need to craft potions/cook and forging weapons. It makes a massive difference in combat. The older games are even less forgiving about it as well.


sounds horrible .


----------



## mongey

TedEH said:


> I think I'd be willing to even go as far as saying weapon durability should stay in BotW 2. I didn't hate it. Could be tweaked for sure, but it's not like the game wasn't constantly throwing new weapons at you. In a game that lets you pick up any of the bajillion weapons around, I think something like it is necessary. The alternative would be the "classic" inventory style of just a fixed set of things you either have or don't have, which has it's own merits but feels a lot less dynamic / open-world-y to me. In my eyes the mechanic was appropriate to the game.
> 
> You know when you're playing a game and have that urge to pick up and carry everything that isn't bolted down and you end up playing inventory management throughout the whole thing 'cause you just can't have everything at once? The BotW weapon durability, to me, felt like a cure for that. You don't have to get so attached to any one weapon cause you won't have it forever, and there's always a place for the stream of new cool things to hit monsters with that the game throws at you.



I found it annoying early game . but by mid game it wasn't a concern at all.


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> You guys aren't using bows enough. It's really easy to get loads of really good bows and they're relatively very durable.
> *
> The difficulty is balanced in such a way that you won't fight anything that can wipe your supply of weapons until you've got strong enough weapons that deal more damage and have better durability to counteract that.*
> 
> And like, there are weapons everywhere that all have different playstyles, and don't forget to throw them when they're about to break for more damage and get in another arrow headshot.



This is false, durability doesn't improve with weapon damage. If anything, it seemed to get worse (ex those swords the big ninjas drop that break in ~4 swings). I regularly would blow through 2-3 weapons just killing a single silver bokoblin, and there'd be multiple of them in camps. I'd be lucky if I'd get one weapon that did reasonable damage from killing the whole camp, too. I regularly had to go do weapon farming runs in places like the arena to restock unless I avoided combat.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> This is false, durability doesn't improve with weapon damage. If anything, it seemed to get worse (ex those swords the big ninjas drop that break in ~4 swings). I regularly would blow through 2-3 weapons just killing a single silver bokoblin, and there'd be multiple of them in camps. I'd be lucky if I'd get one weapon that did reasonable damage from killing the whole camp, too. I regularly had to go do weapon farming runs in places like the arena to restock unless I avoided combat.


You're probably using really weak weapons then, and not using all the tools available. You get bombs, arrows and stealth for a reason.

Anyway here's how you play Zelda: find a rusty sword, throw it at an Octorok, get back royal sword, now you can kill a regular Lynel without breaking your weapon. Durability is measured in hits not damage dealt, so try to maximise longevity by not using your strong weapons on Keese with 1hp. Different items have different durability, something like the woodcutters axe (that you can find basically all over the place) is really durable but does low damage so is great to keep around for easier enemies. Use your good weapons on bigger baddies and try to deal lots of damage. Pretty early in the game you can get a super jump that lets you get into the air to snip guys whenever you want. Good bows are easy to come across and I have so many Royal bows that I'll never get through them all.

The traveler's sword has 5 damage and 20 durability, while the royal broadsword has 36 damage and 36 durability. The ancient short sword has 40 damage and 54 durability, while the guardian sword++ has 40 and the 32. There are some exceptions like the royal guard series doing loads of damage in exchange for lower durability, but the core weapons increase both.

The windcleaver gets 25 hits before it breaks and does a load of damage. If you aren't able to kill a silver Bokoblin with it then I don't know what to tell you.

Both Ortoroks and rusty swords are available on the Great Plateau. You can basically get a really good sword that you'll always want immediately.


----------



## TedEH

StevenC said:


> Anyway here's how you play Zelda


For some reason this phrasing made me laugh.


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> You're probably using really weak weapons then, and not using all the tools available. You get bombs, arrows and stealth for a reason.
> 
> Anyway here's how you play Zelda: find a rusty sword, throw it at an Octorok, get back royal sword, now you can kill a regular Lynel without breaking your weapon. Durability is measured in hits not damage dealt, so try to maximise longevity by not using your strong weapons on Keese with 1hp. Different items have different durability, something like the woodcutters axe (that you can find basically all over the place) is really durable but does low damage so is great to keep around for easier enemies. Use your good weapons on bigger baddies and try to deal lots of damage. Pretty early in the game you can get a super jump that lets you get into the air to snip guys whenever you want. Good bows are easy to come across and I have so many Royal bows that I'll never get through them all.
> 
> The traveler's sword has 5 damage and 20 durability, while the royal broadsword has 36 damage and 36 durability. The ancient short sword has 40 damage and 54 durability, while the guardian sword++ has 40 and the 32. There are some exceptions like the royal guard series doing loads of damage in exchange for lower durability, but the core weapons increase both.
> 
> The windcleaver gets 25 hits before it breaks and does a load of damage. If you aren't able to kill a silver Bokoblin with it then I don't know what to tell you.
> 
> Both Ortoroks and rusty swords are available on the Great Plateau. You can basically get a really good sword that you'll always want immediately.



I don’t know where you’re pulling these numbers, but all of my understandings of the systems and gameplay are correct, just the amount of HP a Lynel has vs the durability of these weapons is nowhere near what you say here. I have all royal weapons, guardian++, or elemental, but it usually takes something in the neighborhood of 20 hits to kill a silver bokoblin assuming they don’t block and waste a hit of weapon durability, and if they do, most weapons absolutely are not lasting that long. And things like silver lynels take more in the neighborhood of 50+ hits unless you’re in ancient armor and hitting all the stuns and mounting them perfectly (I think if you do that it doesn’t count against durability or something?).

The windcleaver should last 20 hits?? Absolutely never my experience. There must be some other mechanic that runs counter to durability that makes them run out faster if you’re doing something. Those things are made of cardboard it seems.

Oh, I looked up some info. The windcleaver is unique in that the durability decreases even if you miss the enemy or swing it in the air. MAybe that accounts for it never seeming to last, especially against shitty enemies like lizalfos that jump out of range while you’re mid-swing.

also, looks like durability radically decreases if an enemy blocks vs if they don’t, so basically it gets destroyed in half as many hits if that enemy has a shield and you don’t get them stunlocked, with the double penalty that they’re not taking damage. Ex, if an enemy blocks a hit, your sword takes 2x the durability damage and 0x the damage, leading durability to become a very big issue very fast. Unfortunately a lot of high level enemies have them!

the most effective way to kill things often seems to be hitting them with an ice weapon alternating with fire, or hitting them with an electric weapon but waiting for the stun to wear off each swing so it doesn’t lose charge and the enemy gets hit with the bonus damage every swing. Which is pretty slow and dull!

Bows are fine, but their damage does not scale very well. Even with a royal bow it still seems like you have to get like twenty headshots to kill a silver bokoblin, and so little damage it isn’t worth using on a lynel (unless you’re going for the daze). Since arrow damage doesn’t scale at all unless you’re using all ancient arrows or something.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mongey said:


> sounds horrible .


Nah, it actually forces you to think about fights in a different way rather than running in, spamming quen, igni and aard while smacking enemies with your sword. Alternatively, higher difficulties also makes running enemies down with Roach way more viable. I cheesed my way to like lvl15 on my first playthrough by doing that a loooot


----------



## wankerness

KnightBrolaire said:


> Nah, it actually forces you to think about fights in a different way rather than running in, spamming quen, igni and aard while smacking enemies with your sword. Alternatively, higher difficulties also makes running enemies down with Roach way more viable. I cheesed my way to like lvl15 on my first playthrough by doing that a loooot



I get the impression some people just like playing games as mindlessly as possible, ex that dude that didn't want to have to pay attention to squadmates in ME3 and just wanted to go in and shoot everything without engaging with most of the mechanics!

I mean, they're games, they're supposed to be fun, but there's a certain point where sometimes these things start to turn me into a GIT GUD asshole since they're actually missing out on big chunks of the game. 

I played Witcher 3 on a difficulty where I definitely had to use potions sometimes, but it was NOWHERE NEAR as annoying as Witcher 2. It's been long enough I don't really remember the mechanics, but I think you could eventually craft an "infinite" potion or something so you weren't constantly having to replenish them, and that was where I started using them every fight? I do loathe consumables in games just cause I have that hoarder mentality of "never use consumables since you might need them for some really hard fight later!"


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> I don’t know where you’re pulling these numbers, but all of my understandings of the systems and gameplay are correct, just the amount of HP a Lynel has vs the durability of these weapons is nowhere near what you say here. I have all royal weapons, guardian++, or elemental, but it usually takes something in the neighborhood of 20 hits to kill a silver bokoblin assuming they don’t block and waste a hit of weapon durability, and if they do, most weapons absolutely are not lasting that long. And things like silver lynels take more in the neighborhood of 50+ hits unless you’re in ancient armor and hitting all the stuns and mounting them perfectly (I think if you do that it doesn’t count against durability or something?).
> 
> The windcleaver should last 20 hits?? Absolutely never my experience. There must be some other mechanic that runs counter to durability that makes them run out faster if you’re doing something. Those things are made of cardboard it seems.
> 
> Oh, I looked up some info. The windcleaver is unique in that the durability decreases even if you miss the enemy or swing it in the air. MAybe that accounts for it never seeming to last, especially against shitty enemies like lizalfos that jump out of range while you’re mid-swing.
> 
> also, looks like durability radically decreases if an enemy blocks vs if they don’t, so basically it gets destroyed in half as many hits if that enemy has a shield and you don’t get them stunlocked, with the double penalty that they’re not taking damage. Ex, if an enemy blocks a hit, your sword takes 2x the durability damage and 0x the damage, leading durability to become a very big issue very fast. Unfortunately a lot of high level enemies have them!
> 
> the most effective way to kill things often seems to be hitting them with an ice weapon alternating with fire, or hitting them with an electric weapon but waiting for the stun to wear off each swing so it doesn’t lose charge and the enemy gets hit with the bonus damage every swing. Which is pretty slow and dull!
> 
> Bows are fine, but their damage does not scale very well. Even with a royal bow it still seems like you have to get like twenty headshots to kill a silver bokoblin, and so little damage it isn’t worth using on a lynel (unless you’re going for the daze). Since arrow damage doesn’t scale at all unless you’re using all ancient arrows or something.


The only enemies a single Royal Broadsword can't kill are:

Gold Moblin
Lynels
Guardians (excluding decaying ones)
Guardian Scout lvl III and IV
Molduga
Calamity Ganon
This is before any buffs from clothing etc, and you have to be perfect on a Gold Lizalfos.

A Royal Bow with normal arrows can't kill:

Blue Lynels and up
Guardian Scout IV
Calamity Ganon
This is without headshots or other buffs. As headshots double damage, this would take the list to Silver and Gold Lynels, Ganon. It takes 10 headshots to kill a Silver Bokoblin, and it has 60 shots.


----------



## wankerness

StevenC said:


> The only enemies a single Royal Broadsword can't kill are:
> 
> Gold Moblin
> Lynels
> Guardians (excluding decaying ones)
> Guardian Scout lvl III and IV
> Molduga
> Calamity Ganon
> This is before any buffs from clothing etc, and you have to be perfect on a Gold Lizalfos.
> 
> A Royal Bow with normal arrows can't kill:
> 
> Blue Lynels and up
> Guardian Scout IV
> Calamity Ganon
> This is without headshots or other buffs. As headshots double damage, this would take the list to Silver and Gold Lynels, Ganon. It takes 10 headshots to kill a Silver Bokoblin, and it has 60 shots.



I'm guessing the royal broadsword can kill anything else stat assumes you never accidentally hit their shield or anything. Again, maybe some people can do that, but I can't!

I never had problems with bow durability, just piddliness of the damage as the game goes on. You start out much of the game with shitty bows but still able to kill weak enemies like bokoblins with one headshot, as the game goes on you get better and better bows, yet it still then requires 10+ headshots to kill the scaled bokoblins? And it's barely worth using Golden Bows (the ones with the super long range) since the damage is so pathetic. I really don't like that kind of scaling! Reminds me of Goldeneye back in the day where on 00 agent you'd have to shoot some enemies in the head 5 or more times before they'd die. It was kind of funny there, though. Even bomb arrows have to be used en masse once you're dealing with later game enemies.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> I get the impression some people just like playing games as mindlessly as possible, ex that dude that didn't want to have to pay attention to squadmates in ME3 and just wanted to go in and shoot everything without engaging with most of the mechanics!


I don't know that I'd go as far as "mindlessly", but I'm definitely on the side of wanting to engage with a game on my own terms, in whatever way seems like it'll be the most fun - and sometimes that absolutely means ignoring whole mechanics. Sometimes though, I tend to think that if a mechanic doesn't "happen" during the core loop of the game, that might be an accessibility issue, in the sense that you don't know or realize or remember that it's there - and you could debate whether that's a failing on the part of the games design or the player.

Not to open the can of worms that is "git gud vs difficulty settings", but sometimes gitting good isn't fun. And if it's not fun, you lose part of your audience. I respect the idea of an intended experience, and trying to put forward the feeling of overcoming obstacles, etc - and I'd never say that anyone should be "forced" to add those features if they don't want to... but I've also never run into a game that was objectively worse because it _had_ a difficulty setting.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I don't know that I'd go as far as "mindlessly", but I'm definitely on the side of wanting to engage with a game on my own terms, in whatever way seems like it'll be the most fun - and sometimes that absolutely means ignoring whole mechanics. Sometimes though, I tend to think that if a mechanic doesn't "happen" during the core loop of the game, that might be an accessibility issue, in the sense that you don't know or realize or remember that it's there - and you could debate whether that's a failing on the part of the games design or the player.
> 
> Not to open the can of worms that is "git gud vs difficulty settings", but sometimes gitting good isn't fun. And if it's not fun, you lose part of your audience. I respect the idea of an intended experience, and trying to put forward the feeling of overcoming obstacles, etc - and I'd never say that anyone should be "forced" to add those features if they don't want to... but I've also never run into a game that was objectively worse because it _had_ a difficulty setting.



I agree with people that say that Bloodborne and Dark Souls would not be ruined by having difficulty settings (I mean, it's already radically easier if you just grind for a while, so clearly just knocking enemy damage down 33% and player damage up 33% would probably be enough for everything other than the numerous places with instant-death falls). But, I do think that unless there's a good accessibility reason, playing in ways that completely eliminate the primary mechanics of the game is cheating yourself to the point where you haven't really experienced the game. Like, playing a game with invincibility (or "story mode" in some games is this much of a nerf) mode where you can completely ignore any mechanics of any boss fight and still not have a chance of losing, or in mass effect 3 just completely not engaging with squadmates and the very deep combo systems. It's one thing to ignore crafting in a game where it's a tertiary system, you're still basically experiencing it and probably having to do other stuff to compensate, but another thing entirely to switch it to supereasy mode and functionally turn the game into a walking simulator. I'm not saying you get NOTHING out of it, but you definitely didn't really experience it.

As a sidenote, I think Dark Souls is immune to difficulty settings to some degree, since by far the hardest sections of that game are the ones that deal with death-defying platforming crap where you die instantly if you twitch the controller slightly or get hit by an enemy. They'd have to have very different map layouts to accommodate a mode that would truly be easy. Though the aforementioned damage nerfs/buffs would probably do a decent job of at least making it much more accessible since you wouldn't so easily die to any random enemy you encounter.

I think "losing part of your audience" isn't necessarily a problem. If you don't like it, you weren't part of the intended audience. Kinda like how many people just hate all movies of some genre, you will never please them, so why even try? Just make the best movie you can and if that's a niche audience, so be it. It's only when they stick something really hard in something clearly geared towards casual players that it is bad, IMO.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> you definitely didn't really experience it


Does that matter? If you only play the first level of a game, with cheats, but you had a good time and are happy with it..... so what? I'd counter-argue that most people don't experience 100% of most of the games they play.



wankerness said:


> I think "losing part of your audience" isn't necessarily a problem. If you don't like it, you weren't part of the intended audience.


If you're the one selling/making the game, it's absolutely a problem. The audience for games is everyone. If your only objective is creative expression directed at only your "true audience", then this is a meaningless conversation, but games are commercial products (as well as, to some point, a community). We have these conversations as if there isn't a middle ground - as if difficulty options wouldn't be, you know, optional - or as if we haven't already conceded that they wouldn't harm the experience for the "core audience" anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on team "you MUST add difficulty settings to everything" - not everyone has to like every game, and sure, if you don't care about excluding some people then I guess games "aren't for everyone", but the adamant arguments against adding options when you can make no sense to me.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> Does that matter? If you only play the first level of a game, with cheats, but you had a good time and are happy with it..... so what? I'd counter-argue that most people don't experience 100% of most of the games they play.
> 
> 
> If you're the one selling/making the game, it's absolutely a problem. The audience for games is everyone. If your only objective is creative expression directed at only your "true audience", then this is a meaningless conversation, but games are commercial products (as well as, to some point, a community). We have these conversations as if there isn't a middle ground - as if difficulty options wouldn't be, you know, optional - or as if we haven't already conceded that they wouldn't harm the experience for the "core audience" anyway.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not on team "you MUST add difficulty settings to everything" - not everyone has to like every game, and sure, if you don't care about excluding some people then I guess games "aren't for everyone", but the adamant arguments against adding options when you can make no sense to me.



I guess I think of games as being like movies. Not all movies are made for everyone and the only movies that try to be are like, PG-13 Marvel movies. If you're talking about AAA games like Assassin's Creed, yes, they try to be directed at everyone and that's where big difficulty spikes are a problem. But I feel like something like Dark Souls is more like something like, I dunno, Get Out, where a large chunk of the population will hate it on principal but is good for precisely those reasons. It's a kind of artistic statement and clearly they felt the non-changeable difficulty was part of what they were trying to say.

If you think all games should be 4-quadrant blockbusters then that's where we disagree, I guess.


----------



## mongey

wankerness said:


> I get the impression some people just like playing games as mindlessly as possible, ex that dude that didn't want to have to pay attention to squadmates in ME3 and just wanted to go in and shoot everything without engaging with most of the mechanics!
> 
> I mean, they're games, they're supposed to be fun, but there's a certain point where sometimes these things start to turn me into a GIT GUD asshole since they're actually missing out on big chunks of the game.
> 
> I played Witcher 3 on a difficulty where I definitely had to use potions sometimes, but it was NOWHERE NEAR as annoying as Witcher 2. It's been long enough I don't really remember the mechanics, but I think you could eventually craft an "infinite" potion or something so you weren't constantly having to replenish them, and that was where I started using them every fight? I do loathe consumables in games just cause I have that hoarder mentality of "never use consumables since you might need them for some really hard fight later!"




I like games to be a challenge, even hard is fine , but I just don't care to get into fiddly mechanics around crafting and the like. I'm busy and my time is limited .I need to figure out what to cook for my real family tonight after 8 hours of work , I really don't need to spend time in a game doing that .

I just want to play the game that's there and have fun . that doesn't mean that I want it to be mindless.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> If you think all games should be 4-quadrant blockbusters then that's where we disagree, I guess.


I don't disagree with you per-se, I just think the arguments _against_ making games more accessible to more people are weak arguments. It would be a non-argument if there weren't people who wanted to play those games but feel excluded from the community/culture of it. Souls-like games became "a thing" in recent years, and a bunch of people feel like they're being excluded. As a consumer, I say "so what". As a creator, I have to think of that from other angles.

I'm personally 100% on the side of a creator having the freedom to create whatever they want on whatever terms they want - even if the "justification" is weak. It's a weird middle-ground to take and maybe difficult to articulate. It's two things at once: difficult games don't need to justify their design, but also the justification they _do_ have is weak. It's not a good reason, but that's fine because they don't need a good reason.



wankerness said:


> I guess I think of games as being like movies.


I also tend to think like this, usually. I'll play "until the end" of something, then move on. A lot of times I skip DLC and endgame stuff because it feels like filler to me (or sometimes feels mildly exploitative). But I also try to be mindful that this isn't how everyone games. Some people literally just stay in one game for huge amounts of time - hundreds and thousands of hours experiencing the same content over and over. Some people try things, go nope, put it down and never come back. A lot of sandbox games feel like the antithesis of how/why I play games, but those are hugely popular. Sports and racing and sim titles sit almost entirely out of my understanding of what makes games fun - I know some guys who just play the same racing titles for hours on end just doing laps and it seems mind-numbing to me, but they get something out of it, so who am I to judge.

Getting slightly back on topic, there's been a lot of rumours jumping around lately about Zelda remakes and the more I think about it the more I think the Oracle of Ages/Seasons games would really benefit from the Link's Awakening treatment.


----------



## wankerness

Nintendo didn't make those two, so it seems unlikely. I would like them to do that with Minish Cap, but that was also not a Nintendo game, so I guess the odds are pretty slim. I don't know if there's any reason Nintendo wouldn't be able to get the rights back from Capcom and do it (or have Capcom do it), but it just seems like they're only releasing remakes/remasters of their own stuff so far.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> Minish Cap


I've been wanting to play that one too - but it's hard to get a hold of if you don't have a Wii U... which I don't. I've been wondering if I should get one just 'cause it has a lot of stuff you can't get elsewhere.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> I've been wanting to play that one too - but it's hard to get a hold of if you don't have a Wii U... which I don't. I've been wondering if I should get one just 'cause it has a lot of stuff you can't get elsewhere.



Yeah, the Wii-U is really worth it if you're a zelda nut. I have virtual console versions of skyward sword, minish cap, majora's mask, and then disc HD versions of twilight princess and wind waker on there and not on any other system. Minish Cap is really fun, I'd put it above Link to the Past for fun factor for sure, I just sort of lost interest at some point cause I had too many other games in my backlog.


----------



## StevenC

wankerness said:


> Nintendo didn't make those two, so it seems unlikely. I would like them to do that with Minish Cap, but that was also not a Nintendo game, so I guess the odds are pretty slim. I don't know if there's any reason Nintendo wouldn't be able to get the rights back from Capcom and do it (or have Capcom do it), but it just seems like they're only releasing remakes/remasters of their own stuff so far.


The same Capcom studio made Minish Cap.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

I was thinking about how much I really enjoyed UN Squadron on the SNES, and being my number one favorite side shooter game on the system. That's a game that definitely needs a remake. 

Not just some half assed reskin, ether. Name it Area 88 and put the REAL story in it. Not the watered down anime/OVA series, not that stupid stuff Capcom USA made up on the international UN Squadron manual. Lean right into the Area 88 manga story with the tragic protagonist and plot going completely off the rails into insanity and kill off most of the cast by the third act.

Go full 70 percent realistic flight sim, and 30 percent Japanese ridiculous to the point of goofy nonsense, Ace Combat 7 style. But this time add a bunch of RPG life sim elements that happen off battle. Since the story is about mercenaries, money management will play a big factor in buying planes and weapons (like the original), and building better relations with fellow mercenaries allow stronger wing men who can pull you out of a pinch. Make the protagonist central to Shin, but allow certain side missions to play other characters like Mickey, Greg and a few others. 

Basically Persona meets Ace Combat but in the Area 88 universe. A lot to ask yes, and nobody other than me would probably want it. But I can dream right?


----------



## wankerness

KOTOR remake coming to ps5, apparently. I definitely was not expecting that. That’s awesome. Hopefully it’s more than just the pc version ported, but I’ll get it either way. 
Alan Wake remaster coming to everything, guess I’ll maybe try it.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

wankerness said:


> KOTOR remake coming to ps5, apparently. I definitely was not expecting that. That’s awesome. Hopefully it’s more than just the pc version ported, but I’ll get it either way.



The original KOTOR is one of my favourite games ever and I spent a lot of my extra COVID lockdown time playimg the online version, ‘The Old Republic’.

I think KOTOR is more Star Wars than the new trilogy and I’m delighted to see it being reestablished in the Star Wars canon.

My choice now is whether to try to get a PS5 or whether just to invest in a new gaming PC...


----------



## Edika

A few games I'd like to see get remade, because I enjoyed them immensely and we're great games, would be a couple of adventure games. The genre is not so popular anymore, as they were point and click adventures, but the stories were great.
First is The Longest Journey and the other one is Grim Fandango. Not sure if I posted this before. I'd not even update the graphics, just make them more available for new systems lol.

One game that I'd like to see an update in games mechanics and graphics is the first Max Payne game. Nice story and gameplay but the skins and graphics are really outdated.


----------



## BMFan30

They should remake every entry in the THPS series from Tony Hawks Pro Skater all the way to THPS Underground. 

Then make it available it online modes to play as well as online free skate in every level cross platform on every system so everyone can play. 

If that happened I would probably actually play video games again, more than like twice a year.


----------



## wankerness

_MonSTeR_ said:


> The original KOTOR is one of my favourite games ever and I spent a lot of my extra COVID lockdown time playimg the online version, ‘The Old Republic’.
> 
> I think KOTOR is more Star Wars than the new trilogy and I’m delighted to see it being reestablished in the Star Wars canon.
> 
> My choice now is whether to try to get a PS5 or whether just to invest in a new gaming PC...



It sounds like the PS5 version will be coming out earlier than the PC version. But, it's probably at least a year or two out, anyway. It's kind of funny that now it's a PS console exclusive when the original was associated with Xbox for many.

My guess is a PS5 will be cheaper and easier to get than your average quality graphics card right now, but in two years? Who knows. Though apparently the chip shortage is expected to continue through 2023. Awesome.


----------



## Choop

wankerness said:


> My guess is a PS5 will be cheaper and easier to get than your average quality graphics card right now, but in two years? Who knows. Though apparently the chip shortage is expected to continue through 2023. Awesome.



Sad reacts only. :'C


----------



## wankerness

Hey, I know! I went through all the trouble of getting a PS5 and now find out that all the big fancy exclusives I was hyped for (GOW:R and HZD2 mainly) are going to be coming out for PS4, too, since no one would buy them if they were PS5 only since barely anyone has the damn system. So, they'll probably be less fancy in the technical department than they may have been without having to be cross-platform.

I want to keep my PS4 pro cause I need a streaming device in a second room of my house and I might occasionally game on it, too, but man, it's tempting to resell the damn thing. They sell used now for about what I paid for it brand new!! This shortage is nuts.


----------



## Crungy

River City Ransom and the Double Dragon series. Either some new sequels in a similar style that isn't cheesy and lame or remakes into a large open world format. Some leveling/perks/items to barter type stuff would be cool too. I like the hunt and gather aspect (and crafting/item repair) of games like Fallout. Optional multi-player stuff is cool, being forced into it is not. Offline single player would also be a plus.


----------



## bostjan

Crungy said:


> River City Ransom and the Double Dragon series. Either some new sequels in a similar style that isn't cheesy and lame or remakes into a large open world format. Some leveling/perks/items to barter type stuff would be cool too. I like the hunt and gather aspect (and crafting/item repair) of games like Fallout. Optional multi-player stuff is cool, being forced into it is not. Offline single player would also be a plus.



I love RCR, DD, and DD2. I still play those every once in a while.

As an old fart, I can't believe that offline singleplayer is something people have to beg for now.


----------



## Crungy

Fallout 76 got better about not requiring you to do quests with people. I'm hoping whenever they make another FO game it has an optional online feature, sort of like GTA V but with some crossover instead of it being a totally separate thing.


----------



## Crungy

bostjan said:


> I love RCR, DD, and DD2. I still play those every once in a while.



Same here, they're always fun!


----------



## rokket2005

I'd love a Chrono Cross remake, except I literally don't trust Square to do anything right these days.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Crungy said:


> River City Ransom and the Double Dragon series. Either some new sequels in a similar style that isn't cheesy and lame or remakes into a large open world format. Some leveling/perks/items to barter type stuff would be cool too. I like the hunt and gather aspect (and crafting/item repair) of games like Fallout. Optional multi-player stuff is cool, being forced into it is not. Offline single player would also be a plus.



The side scrolling brawler is a tough genre to remake. The rise of 3D has either made them evolve into games like The Bouncer or God Hand/Ashura's Wrath style beat em ups (and to an extent the Musou/Dynasty Warriors games), or go the way of old school nostalgia trips. Remaking the brawlers can either follow the Bouncer route or lean hard on nostalgia with modern graphics like Streets Of Rage 4 or River City Girls. 

That said, I too would like to see more of them come back. Namely the Capcom arcade version of Alien Vs Predator. That game was much better and deeper than it had any business to be.


----------



## narad

rokket2005 said:


> I'd love a Chrono Cross remake, except I literally don't trust Square to do anything right these days.



Why's that?


----------



## rokket2005

narad said:


> Why's that?


So much lazy garbage out of them the past ten years. I haven't played FF7 remake yet, and I will at some point, but aside from that I can count two games from them that I've really enjoyed in the same time frame. DQ11, which is the Enix half and the Dragon Quest team has been basically unchanged for 30 years, and Nier Automata, which was Platinum and pretty much everything they do is fucking awesome. One of my favorite SNES games of all time was Seiken Densetsu 3, and I was super stoked for Trials of Mana when it was announced. All the life the original had was sucked out and it just felt crappy. Same went for Octopath Traveler, I went from excited for it to being bored for 35 hours because the story and characters made it probably the most milquetoast rpg I've ever played. I'm not going to go into Marvel's Avengers, Balan, KHIII, Bravely Default, the mess that FF XV was for 5 years, that last Star Ocean game etc. Now they're doing a retelling/remake of FF1 and having Eidos do more Marvel stuff? I just can't bring myself to care about anything they're doing in this current direction. I used to be a huge Square fan, I played all their shit back on SNES/PS1/PS2 but at this point I just wish they'd sell the rights to Xenogears to Monolith and hopefully leave the enix side alone to keep making decent dq games.


----------



## narad

rokket2005 said:


> So much lazy garbage out of them the past ten years. I haven't played FF7 remake yet, and I will at some point, but aside from that I can count two games from them that I've really enjoyed in the same time frame. DQ11, which is the Enix half and the Dragon Quest team has been basically unchanged for 30 years, and Nier Automata, which was Platinum and pretty much everything they do is fucking awesome. One of my favorite SNES games of all time was Seiken Densetsu 3, and I was super stoked for Trials of Mana when it was announced. All the life the original had was sucked out and it just felt crappy. Same went for Octopath Traveler, I went from excited for it to being bored for 35 hours because the story and characters made it probably the most milquetoast rpg I've ever played. I'm not going to go into Marvel's Avengers, Balan, KHIII, Bravely Default, the mess that FF XV was for 5 years, that last Star Ocean game etc. Now they're doing a retelling/remake of FF1 and having Eidos do more Marvel stuff? I just can't bring myself to care about anything they're doing in this current direction. I used to be a huge Square fan, I played all their shit back on SNES/PS1/PS2 but at this point I just wish they'd sell the rights to Xenogears to Monolith and hopefully leave the enix side alone to keep making decent dq games.



Interesting. I agree with Octopath -- went in for the visuals, stayed for the ... well... didn't stay. But I loved the FF remake. For the purposes of this thread I would love a Tactics or Xenogears remake, but yea, I guess the fact that I'm thinking 25 years back on this is a bit telling.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Funny since I thought the Trials of Mana remake was great, not excellent but enjoyable. Granted that it did absolutely nothing new, but did 'almost' everything right, or at least better than the Secret of Mana remake... which in hindsight, the original has not aged well at all. Seriously if you want to play a good modern Secret/Trials of Mana game, just go play Ys VIII or IX instead.

I've given up with anything to do with the Chrono and Xenogears property. Squenix has kept them chained in their basement, and barely letting them out for air in the form of crappy ports and the odd new arrangement soundtrack or two. Those two properties are long dead, and even Monolith Soft can't even remake Xenogears well enough. But I guess that's what happens when Takahashi's ambition was just to big that any attempt on making a product just collapses under it's own weight.



Bloody_Inferno said:


> This year, Square Enix have proven they can produce a great remake, without breaking it down to episodes, artificially padding the gameplay, excessive self indulgence, and some confused Kingdom Hearts-esque bullcrap.
> 
> So I guess I can jump on the bandwagon crying out for a proper Chrono Trigger remake. Come on Squenix, you know you can do it. Yeah, sure you can't get the Dream Team back together as well anymore, but there's at least some semblance of heart in there that made Trials Of Mana and Octopath Traveller. Hell, you've got that Tokyo RPG Factory that aren't really doing much. You let them make I Am Setsuna, that was basically a watered down Trigger. It was even marketed for the CT nostalgia crowd so you have some plans with the property outside leaving it chained in your basement to along with Xenogears.
> 
> So now is the time Square, let's bring out the Chrono series back for some sunlight. I've already forgotten about that horrible port you released earlier. Bring in the fatter overbloated sister Chrono Cross along for the ride too. Use some of that triple A money to bring some of the Dream Team back. Hell, I'll even volunteer to rearrange and play guitar on some of the music.



Yeah, funny that. Past me was so naïve.


----------



## wankerness

When did you make that post and what were you referring to? I assume it was before the FFVII remake came out as it contains all of those bad qualities you listed!! What "good" remake did they release?

Nier: Replicant's good, but I think it was outsourced. Also it was after FFVII.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> When did you make that post and what were you referring to? I assume it was before the FFVII remake came out as it contains all of those bad qualities you listed!! What "good" remake did they release?



May 14, 2020, a month AFTER FF7R was released, and after I played it. And if anything, this thread actually documents me in the minority who didn't really care for that game.

I was also being unsubtle with "all those bad qualities I listed" pointing directly to FF7R.


----------



## wankerness

Hmm, I guess I'm confused by the post, then. Was it just sarcasm and you'd expect any Chrono remake to be split over 10+ years like the FF7 remake surely will? 

I HATED FF7 remake, like I felt it was one of the worst games experiences I've had in years. The voiceacting and writing was utterly wretched on top of me completely not jiving with that chaotic excuse for a combat system. Maybe I'll try again sometime with Japanese audio to distance myself from the awfulness a bit. Maybe not till the PS5 version goes free on PS+ though!


----------



## spudmunkey

Windows Solitaire, but add a multi-player campaign...


----------



## StevenC

Wait just a minute! What was wrong with Bravely Default?


----------



## Crungy

Bloody_Inferno said:


> The side scrolling brawler is a tough genre to remake. The rise of 3D has either made them evolve into games like The Bouncer or God Hand/Ashura's Wrath style beat em ups (and to an extent the Musou/Dynasty Warriors games), or go the way of old school nostalgia trips. Remaking the brawlers can either follow the Bouncer route or lean hard on nostalgia with modern graphics like Streets Of Rage 4 or River City Girls.
> 
> That said, I too would like to see more of them come back. Namely the Capcom arcade version of Alien Vs Predator. That game was much better and deeper than it had any business to be.



DD/RCR in a 3d/open world adventure environment with some beat em up is what I'd like. Nothing against side scrollers but I completely agree it would a tough or nonexistent sell these days. 

I've never played Bouncer or Dynasty Warriors, are they no good?


----------



## rokket2005

StevenC said:


> Wait just a minute! What was wrong with Bravely Default?


I just haven't liked pretty much anything Asano has done, going back to the FF III remake for DS. They all have the same style and none of it appeals to me. I tried BD2 when it came out cause I read some pretty flattering things about it, but it was more of the same from his previous games that I didn't like.


----------



## StevenC

rokket2005 said:


> I just haven't liked pretty much anything Asano has done, going back to the FF III remake for DS. They all have the same style and none of it appeals to me. I tried BD2 when it came out cause I read some pretty flattering things about it, but it was more of the same from his previous games that I didn't like.


Hmm, fair enough. I love BD, BS and am waiting patiently for my brother to finish BD2 so I can play it.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

So there's talks on leaks from Nvidia GeForce NOW that a Chrono Cross Remaster and a FFIX Remake is happening.

The former seems more likely than the latter, but I guess it's a sign Squenix still want to let everyone know that the Chrono property is still alive and theirs, whilst sorely neglected. I guess the modest overbloated little sister of Trigger can come out for nourishment every now and then.

The latter, well that'll be interesting. There's a FFIX children's show already in development apparently, it'll be interesting to see them follow through with a full remake, or at least see how they can screw it up.

Either way, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Crungy

Did anyone mention a Suikoden 3? That's one I keep picking up over the years and then don't finish it for some reason. A modernization of it LoZ style would be cool.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Crungy said:


> Did anyone mention a Suikoden 3? That's one I keep picking up over the years and then don't finish it for some reason. A modernization of it LoZ style would be cool.



A new Suikoden ANYTHING would be nice and welcome. But we're also asking Konami to budge from their contempt in making new games.

EDIT: turns out there's an upcoming game called Eiyuden Chronicles, supposedly a spiritual successor. Makes sense since the studio developing the game is made up of Konami refugees mostly who worked from the Suikoden games. That's at least something.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

There may be only one other person other than myself that was wishing for an Actraiser remake. 

Then this happened.



Squenix is taking my money again.


----------



## rokket2005

If Enix is doing remakes of SNES games they should get on Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma next.


----------



## WarMachine

Bloody_Inferno said:


> There may be only one other person other than myself that was wishing for an Actraiser remake.
> 
> Then this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Squenix is taking my money again.



Me too! For YEARS I was dying for a remake or sequel. Didnt even know this existed until Saturday night. Quickest Steam purchase I've made short of RE8 Village. Maybe I didn't give it much a chance yet, but so far honestly I'm really let down on it. Pre rendered graphics and every 2 steps a tutorial. But again, I only played up to the sim section of Fillmore and cleared out the 1st monster lair. Dont wanna rag on it too hard until I can sit and grind it out. But I was really expecting to be blown away after all these years..


----------



## WarMachine

if they end up making a soul blazer remake(which i HIGHLY doubt), and its not given a better treatment than this did, then ill be about done with sqeuenix.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

I'll probably do some long winded post about Actraiser Renaissance in the other gaming thread, but I'm up to the 4th land and while I'm having fun, I have a ton of bugbears. 



WarMachine said:


> if they end up making a soul blazer remake(which i HIGHLY doubt), and its not given a better treatment than this did, then ill be about done with sqeuenix.



I'll be the first to raise a hand begging for a Blazer trilogy remake, as documented throughout this thread. Renaissance literally came out of nowhere, no hype, no ceremony, nothing. Just announced and released at the same time. I can't remember the last time a game company has done that, let alone a triple A corp like Squenix. If, and a big IF, they do end up releasing the 3 Blazers (Terranigma will make bank with US release), I'll be on board just like Actraiser. And I'm sure there will be modern gaming flavoured problems there too.


----------



## WarMachine

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I'll probably do some long winded post about Actraiser Renaissance in the other gaming thread, but I'm up to the 4th land and while I'm having fun, I have a ton of bugbears.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be the first to raise a hand begging for a Blazer trilogy remake, as documented throughout this thread. Renaissance literally came out of nowhere, no hype, no ceremony, nothing. Just announced and released at the same time. I can't remember the last time a game company has done that, let alone a triple A corp like Squenix. If, and a big IF, they do end up releasing the 3 Blazers (Terranigma will make bank with US release), I'll be on board just like Actraiser. And I'm sure there will be modern gaming flavoured problems there too.


That's interesting, i never new Terranigma tied into either of the other 2. Great game also, i didn't get to play until a few years ago but man it was great. Fucked up, sad story but great game! One of the few if only from the SNES where the story was well written enough that i felt bad for the main character lol.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

WarMachine said:


> That's interesting, i never new Terranigma tied into either of the other 2. Great game also, i didn't get to play until a few years ago but man it was great. Fucked up, sad story but great game! One of the few if only from the SNES where the story was well written enough that i felt bad for the main character lol.



Terranigma isn't tied to the other 2 per se, certainly not officially. It's just developed by the same team as the other 2 as well as shares the same theme of world regeneration. And there's a few references between each other as well to show some sort of spiritual continuity. 

I adore Terranigma, and it's a game I tend to revisit every few years. Easily one of the best action RPGs in the twilight years of the SNES.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Forgot to reply...



Crungy said:


> I've never played Bouncer or Dynasty Warriors, are they no good?



The Bouncer was one of Squenix's odd ducks, where it was a 3D brawler mixed with cutscense. It's got the spirit of an old school beater (the 3 small/medium/large archtypes, various moves, beat up a ton of goons etc), it was just weird coming from Square. The game was also too short. I remember renting it for a weekend and completed everything. 

Dynasty Warriors... that's a whole new genre of hack and slash, but it does carry the spirit of brawlers, just much more loosely. The primary gameplay loop is similar, run around and beat 'em up. This time you're a one man army slaughtering legions of goons on a set map. It'll certainly give the same catharsis as a brawler, even if it feels like a whole new sub genre.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I'd kill for a reboot of Jak & Daxter, or even an HD remaster. I loved those games growing up and haven't played in like 15+ years.


----------



## Ralyks

BlackMastodon said:


> I'd kill for a reboot of Jak & Daxter, or even an HD remaster. I loved those games growing up and haven't played in like 15+ years.



I'm REALLY surprised they haven't bought Jak and Daxter back. Especially with how well Ratchet and Clank is doing.


----------



## dr_game0ver

I think, just like Crash, they have sold the licence. You can get the trilogy on PS3 and Vita if you want...


----------



## StevenC

dr_game0ver said:


> I think, just like Crash, they have sold the licence. You can get the trilogy on PS3 and Vita if you want...


Naughty Dog/Sony still owns Jak and Daxter and can make or remake them whenever they want to. And Universal always owned Crash.


----------



## 7081N470R

StevenC said:


> Naughty Dog/Sony still owns Jak and Daxter and can make or remake them whenever they want to. And Universal always owned Crash.



Fingers crossed that Sony convinces Naughty Dog to release the Jak Trilogy on Steam sometime in the future. God, I remember sinking _so_ much time into Jak 3 on my PS2. God of War is slated to come out on Steam pretty soon; that's going to be exciting too.


----------



## TheBlackBard

I don't want a remake or even remaster, but please port Lost Odyssey to PC.


----------



## WarMachine

Mega Man X through X6 with HD graphics. I know we got Maverick Hunter X, and i LOVED it. But that just left me wanting the rest of the 2D X games remade in 3D. 
Contra, Super C and Contra III with the same 3D treatment.


----------



## Ralyks

WarMachine said:


> Mega Man X through X6 with HD graphics. I know we got Maverick Hunter X, and i LOVED it. But that just left me wanting the rest of the 2D X games remade in 3D.



Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they made an all new MegaMan X game and did it retro like that did with Megaman 9 and 10.


----------



## jaguar78

I'd love the remake of Simpsons Hit n Run. A classical open world game from my childhood that I'd love to see unreleased with Improved visuals and maybe restored content.


----------



## Thesius

The OG Neverwinter Nights


----------



## wankerness

jaguar78 said:


> I'd love the remake of Simpsons Hit n Run. A classical open world game from my childhood that I'd love to see unreleased with Improved visuals and maybe restored content.



It will probably never happen thanks to Disney now owning the rights to the Simpsons. I'd suggest getting the PC one off an abandonware site and getting some of the mods. I have been meaning to try the game out myself, it seems like it's pretty beloved. The console copies unfortunately cost quite a bit, but the PC version can be modded into something that looks halfway decent.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

This thread has shown how vocal I've been for Square Enix to remake Xenogears, but after listening through hours of episodes of the State Of The Arc podcast about the game, I've sort of changed my stance. Not only do I think Xenogears cannot be remade, but I'm starting to be in the notion that it's best that Xenogears _shouldn't_ be remade. And a lot of the reasons why are pointed towards the game's own visionary, Tetsuya Takahashi. 

It's a beautiful game and one of the best JRPGs of all time, but it's also deeply flawed. The core staff were passionate and extremely ambitious (5th of a 6 part story), but all that ambition ended up collapsing under it's own weight. Inexperienced staff working with 3D rendering for the first time, overworked staff; the composer getting hospitalised with stomach ulcers from living in the office, constant skepticism from then Square CEO, in turn lead to massive budget cuts and time constraints in favor of putting all the funds for Final Fantasy Spirits Bloody Within. Takahashi's grand design was doomed from the start, and he already knew it. Disc 2 was completely rushed with little to no gameplay and a ton of expository cut scenes because he wanted the whole story in one game, knowing Square was never going to give him a chance of a sequel. And as history tells, Spirits Within bombed hard, and Takahshi and his core team left Square just a few months after Xenogears release. 

But reasons why Xenogears shouldn't be remade is already evident in the Xenosaga games.... Takahashi and co formed Monolith Soft and just straight up tried to remake the game and retell the story. Essentially the Castlevania/Bloodstained situation; the same story with everyone wearing their fingers under their noses to avoid copywrite infringements, this time telling the story from the beginning with a 6 games in 11 year plan. Of course history repeats: Namco thought the ambition was too big, cut episodes 3-6 down to just one game, Takahashi himself getting fired from his own leadership role in the games... also add the the count that the Xenosaga games sucked, with little gameplay over a ton of expository cut scenes. 

Granted that Takahashi and Monolith Soft have gotten better over the years. The Xenoblade games are by most accounts largely successful and actually feel like games (I adore part 1) and without the uber pretentions Jung/Freudian, Nietzsche and Gnosticism themes with a Japanese filter. Though in essence both Xenoblade 1 and 2 are new and watered down retellings of Xenogears Ep 5. The Xeno influence still lives on all over the genre. Deicide is a big deal in every JRPG ever, and games like Persona 5 Royal and the Trails games (namely Cold Steel) carry the influences on their sleeves. With all that said and known, I can see why Squenix will keep the original Xenogears in their dark grimy basement indefinitely. But at least a remaster with a few small quality of life perks for the sake of preservation would be nice... though I'd imagine there'd be some contracts required from the 2 development companies. 

TL/DR: unless there's some Gnostic miracle and Squenix and Monolith get together and play nice, there's going to be next to zero chance for a full Xenogears revival.


----------



## Choop

Bloody_Inferno said:


> This thread has shown how vocal I've been for Square Enix to remake Xenogears, but after listening through hours of episodes of the State Of The Arc podcast about the game, I've sort of changed my stance. Not only do I think Xenogears cannot be remade, but I'm starting to be in the notion that it's best that Xenogears _shouldn't_ be remade.



I just finished this game for the first time not too long ago, and I enjoyed it a lot. The scope of the game is so huge that it's difficult to envision it being remade and not being like 6 separate releases or something. A remaster would be cool though, to pretty it up some more and alleviate some of the jank.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Choop said:


> A remaster would be cool though, to pretty it up some more and alleviate some of the jank.



Yeah, the 2 big things I'll address for the remake is refine the janky camera especially during any platform sections (that final dungeon) and fix up whatever that makes the frame rate chug down during certain sections (the Voltron/Macross homage scenes). Aside from maybe make the Death Blow system more balanced so new skills don't make the old ones redundant, Xenogears is mostly ok.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

So Chrono Cross is actually getting a HD Remaster. Not a full remake, let alone not Chrono Trigger, but eh, I'll take it. 

EDIT: Though Front Mission and Live A Live (!) are getting 2D remakes, so that's gaining more of my interest. 

Squenix can have more of my bloody money again.


----------



## StevenC

Bloody_Inferno said:


> So Chrono Cross is actually getting a HD Remaster. Not a full remake, let alone not Chrono Trigger, but eh, I'll take it.
> 
> EDIT: Though Front Mission and Live A Live (!) are getting 2D remakes, so that's gaining more of my interest.
> 
> Squenix can have more of my bloody money again.


Was waiting for your comment. Feels like that Direct was a Square Direct, even had Xenoblade.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

StevenC said:


> Was waiting for your comment. Feels like that Direct was a Square Direct, even had Xenoblade.


I want to get excited for Xenoblade 3, but admittedly haven't played 2 yet since that requires me to buy a Switch. And I've been putting that off as an excuse to finish my album. 

I'll get there eventually.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Soul Reaver 


Carrion Rocket said:


> The Legacy of Kain series




Also, Onimusha Warlords series and Tenchu Stealth Assassins...


----------



## rokket2005

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I want to get excited for Xenoblade 3, but admittedly haven't played 2 yet since that requires me to buy a Switch. And I've been putting that off as an excuse to finish my album.
> 
> I'll get there eventually.


Go buy a switch. 

Today. 

Xenoblade 2 alone is worth buying a switch for, and XC3 is going to be fucking crazy from the 2 minutes we've gotten of it so far. I'm so god damned excited.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

rokket2005 said:


> Go buy a switch.
> 
> Today.
> 
> Xenoblade 2 alone is worth buying a switch for, and XC3 is going to be fucking crazy from the 2 minutes we've gotten of it so far. I'm so god damned excited.



Don't worry I'll buy one... sadly not today. Says the guy who has the Xenoblade 2 OST on regular rotation in the car. 

My biggest issue is that when I played Xenoblade 1 on a borrowed Wii, I played it so much for 6-7 months straight I could've been declared legally dead by friends and family.  

But then again.... I am a JRPG hog so that's a regular occurrence.  X2 and it's Expansion is definitely on the must play list.


----------



## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> So Chrono Cross is actually getting a HD Remaster. Not a full remake, let alone not Chrono Trigger, but eh, I'll take it.
> 
> EDIT: Though Front Mission and Live A Live (!) are getting 2D remakes, so that's gaining more of my interest.
> 
> Squenix can have more of my bloody money again.


"Enhanced Soundtrack" has me worried - hopefully they don't change any of the music cause from what I remember the music was the best thing about that game.

Hopefully they didn't lose all their Chrono Cross assets like they did with their 90s Final Fantasy games - those "remasters" of things like FFIX look like utter garbage cause they just used what are basically PS1 screenshots for all the backgrounds and stuck the models on top of them and called it good. I've seen fan versions of the likes of FFVII that used machine learning to upscale the backgrounds that look radically better than Square's half-assed ports. The FFXII remaster, on the other hand, is really great and I have no complaints about it at all. Hopefully this is more in that boat!


----------



## WarMachine

Konfyouzd said:


> Soul Reaver
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Onimusha Warlords series and Tenchu Stealth Assassins...


Dude the Legacy of Kain series in fucking general needs attention! One of my favorite game series period!


----------



## rokket2005

wankerness said:


> "Enhanced Soundtrack" has me worried - hopefully they don't change any of the music cause from what I remember the music was the best thing about that game.
> 
> Hopefully they didn't lose all their Chrono Cross assets like they did with their 90s Final Fantasy games - those "remasters" of things like FFIX look like utter garbage cause they just used what are basically PS1 screenshots for all the backgrounds and stuck the models on top of them and called it good. I've seen fan versions of the likes of FFVII that used machine learning to upscale the backgrounds that look radically better than Square's half-assed ports. The FFXII remaster, on the other hand, is really great and I have no complaints about it at all. Hopefully this is more in that boat!


I heard the soundtrack was just being remastered which is fine. Even if they did replace some of the original tracks Mitsuda has done so much amazing Chrono Cross music in the past 5 years with Millenial Fair, and it would be totally fine if they used some of those versions since they're great. I've been listening to these three albums in heavy rotation for like 2 years.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Side note: Chrono Cross is apparently including Radical Dreamers "Le Tresor Interdit" as an accompaniment. The text based visual novel prequel to Cross that nobody played since it was only on a system nobody had. 

That's insane especially since I rag on Squenix for keeping a lot of their malnutritioned kids in the basement too long but good on them for at least acknowledging it. Speaking of their other kids needing some sunlight...

Front Mission 1 and 2 will be a double bundle, and is a much needed return to form after Squenix pissed all over the franchise with Left Alive. Swich exclusive though.

Live A Live is probably the one I'm most excited about. Its not a full grand remake but more in the 2.5 style a la Octopath. Live is really digging deep from the vaults of stuff never released outside Japan outside fan Rom translations. Which is a shame since there's legacy to it that stems to greater and more well known games (Chrono Trigger). And it's got a strong cult following so I'm glad it's finally getting tarted up nicely for its global debut.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain

Cool Boarders. Loved that series of games on the original Playstation. 

Would also like to see a remake of Twisted Metal, that demolition derby type game. Shit was addicting.


----------



## Jesse7620

Medal of Honor ..
Soldier of fortune 2 multiplayer ..(all time )
Bond 007 golden gun multiplayer ..
Cod1..(not cod 2 to cod 1 million)
Vietcong


----------



## narad

With all the Chrono Cross talk...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I want another Splatterhouse game. also Timesplitters. and SOCOM.


----------



## pahulkster

KOTOR by people who like the game


----------



## MFB

pahulkster said:


> KOTOR by people who like the game



Uh, it IS getting remade?


----------



## pahulkster

Yeah by the wrong people


----------



## Crungy

KnightBrolaire said:


> I want another Splatterhouse game. also Timesplitters. and SOCOM.


It's an old franchise but I'm kind of surprised no one has taken another stab at splatterhouse. Could be awesome.


----------



## wankerness

pahulkster said:


> Yeah by the wrong people


What are you on about? The studio working on it tends to do lazy remasters that don't disrespect the original. I don't know what they're actually doing this go-round. Did some news come out that upset you? If so, what?


----------



## pahulkster

The usual destruction of Star Wars lol. I'll still play it so whatever.


----------



## wankerness

Seriously, what are you talking about? What are they changing that you don't like? From what little I've seen about this it's just a superficial graphic overhaul.


----------



## p0ke

Really looking forward to the Kotor remake here, as long as they don't change the combat. And TBH I don't think they will, judging by what the developer has done before. Then hopefully they'll do Kotor 2 as well (I still haven't beaten that because my save file kept getting corrupted).


----------



## LostTheTone

p0ke said:


> Really looking forward to the Kotor remake here, as long as they don't change the combat. And TBH I don't think they will, judging by what the developer has done before. Then hopefully they'll do Kotor 2 as well (I still haven't beaten that because my save file kept getting corrupted).



Yup, my boner is pointing at it too. 

I could be a shitshow, but it's hard to see how anyone could fuck it up. KOTOR is great and pretty much all they have to do is bolt on controller support and polish the graphics.


----------



## p0ke

LostTheTone said:


> Yup, my boner is pointing at it too.
> 
> I could be a shitshow, but it's hard to see how anyone could fuck it up. KOTOR is great and pretty much all they have to do is bolt on controller support and polish the graphics.



There's the risk that they'll go all Final Fantasy VII remake on it and make it into an action game... But I doubt they will, like I said before. The one thing I'm disappointed about is that it's gonna be a PS5 timed exclusive... Then again, surely it's gonna be next-gen only anyway so I probably won't have a new xbox by then anyway


----------



## LostTheTone

p0ke said:


> There's the risk that they'll go all Final Fantasy VII remake on it and make it into an action game... But I doubt they will, like I said before. The one thing I'm disappointed about is that it's gonna be a PS5 timed exclusive... Then again, surely it's gonna be next-gen only anyway so I probably won't have a new xbox by then anyway



It takes a very special kind of developer display such unwanted levels of Squeenixness, I don't think the lot who got given KOTOR have that much imagination. Which is all for the good. 

I mean, personally I would just take a patch of the existing old game but that works in modern Windows, and/or a port for Switch. I don't want imagination I just want to play the game again!

Guess we'll see about next gen only - It would certainly be galling for an old non-shiny game to be so pimped out that you can't just fire up whatever recent console and play it. Wouldn't put it past them though.


----------



## p0ke

LostTheTone said:


> I mean, personally I would just take a patch of the existing old game but that works in modern Windows, and/or a port for Switch. I don't want imagination I just want to play the game again!



Doesn't the current PC version work? I haven't tried it since ~2005 or something so IDK... You'd imagine there'd be a working version, since there are ports that run on xbox one, android phones etc.

Personally, I'd like a significant graphics update - imagine how awesome it'd be with cinematic visuals. And I guess that's what we'll get, since I think I read somewhere that it'll run on UE5.


----------



## LostTheTone

p0ke said:


> Doesn't the current PC version work? I haven't tried it since ~2005 or something so IDK... You'd imagine there'd be a working version, since there are ports that run on xbox one, android phones etc.
> 
> Personally, I'd like a significant graphics update - imagine how awesome it'd be with cinematic visuals. And I guess that's what we'll get, since I think I read somewhere that it'll run on UE5.



It does work, but it doesn't like _ work_. The graphics modes aren't anyone's idea of sane, for example. When I last played it (Steam version circa 2012) it was effectively impossible to alt tab to consult the wiki, which is not great.


----------



## wankerness

p0ke said:


> Doesn't the current PC version work? I haven't tried it since ~2005 or something so IDK... You'd imagine there'd be a working version, since there are ports that run on xbox one, android phones etc.
> 
> Personally, I'd like a significant graphics update - imagine how awesome it'd be with cinematic visuals. And I guess that's what we'll get, since I think I read somewhere that it'll run on UE5.


From what they've been talking about, KOTOR will definitely have massively upgraded visuals. Which is what has me scared, since that company has only done really lazy and bad ports before (seriously the Jedi Knight games are borderline unplayable on console thanks to absolutely no changes to aiming controls to make up for the inferior accuracy of controller vs mouse/keyboard). 

I played through KOTOR 1 and 2 a few years ago on PC. I had to download some kind of front-end application that allowed them to run in modern resolutions. Don't remember what it was called. Kotor2 also has a bunch of busted missing content in the retail version and there are community patches that fix it.


----------



## p0ke

wankerness said:


> From what they've been talking about, KOTOR will definitely have massively upgraded visuals. Which is what has me scared, since that company has only done really lazy and bad ports before (seriously the Jedi Knight games are borderline unplayable on console thanks to absolutely no changes to aiming controls to make up for the inferior accuracy of controller vs mouse/keyboard).
> 
> I played through KOTOR 1 and 2 a few years ago on PC. I had to download some kind of front-end application that allowed them to run in modern resolutions. Don't remember what it was called. Kotor2 also has a bunch of busted missing content in the retail version and there are community patches that fix it.


I've only played JK on PC so idk... But luckily KOTOR doesn't require aiming precision, and IMO the games play just as fine (or just as poorly  like I said before, I never finished kotor2 because my save kept getting corrupted) on xbox as is, so I'm not that worried about it.


----------



## MFB

'Knights Of The Old Republic' Remake Features God Of War-Style Combat, Says Insider


The game is apparently aiming to release in 2023.




www.gamingbible.co.uk





This might turn off some of the fans waiting for the remake, but as a HUGE fan of the 2018 GOW, consider my hype increased.


----------



## CapinCripes

As much as I love isometric fallout a straight remake of fallout 2 in the style of new Vegas would be good. None of this ff7 "remake" crap either just the original script and such.


----------



## Crungy

I'd love the og Fallout games to be remade 3d. They could at least put that out since we may never see another regular Fallout.


----------



## Protestheriphery

Goldeneye. They attempted one for Wii back in the day, but it was meh. Just hit differently.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

Donkey Kong 64. It may be Nintendo's annoying bastard child collect-a-thon but god damn do I love it.


----------



## wankerness

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> Donkey Kong 64. It may be Nintendo's annoying bastard child collect-a-thon but god damn do I love it.


I never finished that, I ran out of gas somewhere around the factory level. It got REALLY, REALLY tedious having to go back to barrels to switch characters to just collect goddam colored bananas strewn everywhere.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

wankerness said:


> I never finished that, I ran out of gas somewhere around the factory level. It got REALLY, REALLY tedious having to go back to barrels to switch characters to just collect goddam colored bananas strewn everywhere.



I agree with you 100%. It just scratches this weird itch in my brain and is a perfectionist's nightmare.

The water level is SO much worse.


----------



## /wrists

beerandbeards said:


> How dope would it be to have a 3rd person open world Oregon Trail! You have to hunt, barter, deal with the loss and illness of your family. It could be timed to make it past the Rockies in a certain amount of time.
> 
> Just a random thought I had driving to work. What other old school games would you think could be wicked fun of remade to modern abilities?


Red Dead Redemption


----------



## Adieu

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> Donkey Kong 64. It may be Nintendo's annoying bastard child collect-a-thon but god damn do I love it.



On Android!

Actually, just put ALL of old Nintendo on Android on a subscription model... it would be easy to port and beat the hell out of 99% of Android offerings

Just superimpose the old gamepad control layout over the screen in landscape mode and done for casuals (& sell some kind of overpriced OPTIONAL bluetooth dock-gamepad peripheral device for hardcore fans)


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

evade said:


> Red Dead Redemption



I wouldn't quite classify RDR as old-school as it was a PS3/360 release.



Adieu said:


> On Android!



This would be a dream come true tbh.


----------



## Strobe

I want a modern version of Bushido Blade (preferably more like Bushido Blade 2)!


----------



## beerandbeards

evade said:


> Red Dead Redemption


Lol! True


----------



## 73647k

I am in need of an Ape Escape remake


----------



## 73647k

Strobe said:


> I want a modern version of Bushido Blade (preferably more like Bushido Blade 2)!


This would be awesome too


----------



## wankerness

MFB said:


> 'Knights Of The Old Republic' Remake Features God Of War-Style Combat, Says Insider
> 
> 
> The game is apparently aiming to release in 2023.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gamingbible.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This might turn off some of the fans waiting for the remake, but as a HUGE fan of the 2018 GOW, consider my hype increased.


Apparently their port of KOTORII was so incredibly half-assed that the switch version currently has a gamebreaking bug that blocks all progress for all players about 1/3 of the way through. And they released it in that shape, and instead of patching it as soon as people started hitting it, they just released some incredibly convoluted workaround involving having to clear a section of the game with no one else in your party! Still no ETA on a real fix. Plus, they released the damn thing without including the restored content patch that they advertised before release would be included. This dev is totally hopeless. Unless some other Sony studio is helping them by doing most of the work, I think this will be terrible.


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## MFB

First time I'm hearing of that, but I don't have a Switch nor will I until I can get all the god damn Zeldas on one platform, so that's news to me. Truthfully, the only time I remember that there's a KOTOR remake coming is when this thread is relevant or it comes up in the other WAYP thread, so calling it "hype" in this case is still being very generous on my end.

Like everything else, I'll wait for a trailer, then the gameplay trailer, then the actual game to come out and another several months before it's down to the $30-40 range before I consider even buying it and then regret it even if it's just OK


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## pahulkster

Lol I bought that KOTOR II port because I saw it in the Switch shop and didn't read anything else. Only $15 but it's still ridiculous they released it like that, and also ridiculous that Nintendo does zero refunds for the shop. I played KOTOR II a couple of times on the Xbox but it's been a long time. Hopefully they get it all resolved with the restored content sometime in the somewhat near future. Definitely not going to play it right now.


----------



## TheBlackBard

Crungy said:


> I'd love the og Fallout games to be remade 3d. They could at least put that out since we may never see another regular Fallout.



That would work if we knew for a fact that Bethesda wouldn't fuck them up. That said, I don't have that much trust in them. Every time they release a game, it's ultimately up to the fans to fix it. They fucking RUINED Fallout, starting with 4, where 3 was already pushing the issue a bit. It's not a shock that the only decent Fallout games to happen was made by Obsidian/Black Isle Studios. 3 is certainly forgivable in some ways, but Fallout 4 is just a first person shooter trying to convince everyone that it's in some way related to the ones before it. And Fallout 76? Whoever came up with that idea deserves the EXACT same reaction that one guy got when he showed off Diablo: Immortal for the first time and they deserve to have nightmares about that reaction happening to them until the day they die so they can live it in purgatory. Fuck that thing right to hell.


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## TedEH

TheBlackBard said:


> they deserve to have nightmares about that reaction happening to them until the day they die so they can live it in purgatory


I wish more people saw the other side of this so they could know that unwanted entertainment products don't come entirely from a place of evil or incompetence.


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## MFB

TedEH said:


> I wish more people saw the other side of this so they could know that unwanted entertainment products don't come entirely from a place of evil or incompetence.



I think the more accurate/fair version would be that when they do, it's not from the people who are MAKING the games, it's the people paying those people to make the game in the hopes that they see a shit-ton of profit in return for a cheap retread.


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## TheBlackBard

TedEH said:


> I wish more people saw the other side of this so they could know that unwanted entertainment products don't come entirely from a place of evil or incompetence.



Nah, just laziness on behalf of the people commanding a group of devs who feel similarly to the way the audience does. The devs don't deserve the flack for Diablo: Immortal. The devs don't deserve the flack from Anthem. The devs don't deserve the flack from Cyberpunk 2077. The ones who are over them, looking to make a quick buck while not assuming any responsibility for the senseless death threats and insults flung at the devs? THEY absolutely deserve that reaction, especially when it's a deal they make and they assume no accountability over it, letting the people who do the work they don't even agree with.


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## StevenC

TedEH said:


> I wish more people saw the other side of this so they could know that unwanted entertainment products don't come entirely from a place of evil or incompetence.


Elaborate please.

As I see it, a bad game comes from either: a good idea executed poorly; a bad idea that no one recognises; shovelware; or intentional predatory design.

All of those are a result of incompetence, capitalism or a combination.


----------



## TedEH

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, only the people I've worked with or around.



StevenC said:


> a good idea executed poorly


This is basically every game every though. The bigger and more ambitious the game, the more likely it's going to fall apart in a terrible mess that nobody could have seen coming. I've said it before and it's continued to ring true on every new project I've seen: it's almost a miracle any sizeable game gets made at all. It's such a giant ridiculous mess of people and code and assets and designs and opinions and management styles and personalities and every type of jerk with every type of character, etc etc etc.



StevenC said:


> a bad idea that no one recognises


See the last point, but to go a step further - ideas are abundant in games. Everyone has a brilliant idea if only they had the money and team to pull it off. Half of all the big-team devs think they're design geniuses who could solve all the problems of modern gaming, if they juuuust had all the resources. Not to say they aren't good people - ambition is good - but ideas have no real value here. It's the execution that matters - and yes, a huge chunk of that execution is management.



StevenC said:


> shovelware


Hard to argue with that one, but then again, like any other medium, much of the audience has gotten pretty good at dodging the obvious junk.



StevenC said:


> intentional predatory design


So I've worked on some knowingly predatory games. They're well aware of what they're doing, and don't feel good about it. To many of them, it feels unavoidable and they do what they can to negate the grossness of it and put a real good game underneath it. But at the end of the day, they have to deliver what's been asked of them, and the people doing the asking are convinced that they _have to _make games like this to keep the lights on - 'cause lets not kid ourselves, mobile gaming is a bigger market than "real games", and whales keep the lights on.

On one project, the monetization designers (yes, people have that title, lol) had to go through several iterations of a "how evil do we have to be" document that tried to balance the gross stuff they needed to do with keeping the game feeling like it's of value to those that can't or won't pay. Personally, I think it's impossible. For every "oh my god, they put timers on EVERYTHING", I promise there was something a lot worse that got cut or scaled down because they didn't want to feel evil about it.

Don't get me wrong, there's a non-zero amount of evil in modern game design. But in my experience, there's very little evil in the process/teams until you reach the very top level - the people signing the checks. There are a LOT of levels up to that point though. And most of the team spend a lot of effort doing whatever they can to mitigate that evil.


----------



## StevenC

TedEH said:


> Obviously I can't speak for everyone, only the people I've worked with or around.
> 
> 
> This is basically every game every though. The bigger and more ambitious the game, the more likely it's going to fall apart in a terrible mess that nobody could have seen coming. I've said it before and it's continued to ring true on every new project I've seen: it's almost a miracle any sizeable game gets made at all. It's such a giant ridiculous mess of people and code and assets and designs and opinions and management styles and personalities and every type of jerk with every type of character, etc etc etc.
> 
> 
> See the last point, but to go a step further - ideas are abundant in games. Everyone has a brilliant idea if only they had the money and team to pull it off. Half of all the big-team devs think they're design geniuses who could solve all the problems of modern gaming, if they juuuust had all the resources. Not to say they aren't good people - ambition is good - but ideas have no real value here. It's the execution that matters - and yes, a huge chunk of that execution is management.
> 
> 
> Hard to argue with that one, but then again, like any other medium, much of the audience has gotten pretty good at dodging the obvious junk.
> 
> 
> So I've worked on some knowingly predatory games. They're well aware of what they're doing, and don't feel good about it. To many of them, it feels unavoidable and they do what they can to negate the grossness of it and put a real good game underneath it. But at the end of the day, they have to deliver what's been asked of them, and the people doing the asking are convinced that they _have to _make games like this to keep the lights on - 'cause lets not kid ourselves, mobile gaming is a bigger market than "real games", and whales keep the lights on.
> 
> On one project, the monetization designers (yes, people have that title, lol) had to go through several iterations of a "how evil do we have to be" document that tried to balance the gross stuff they needed to do with keeping the game feeling like it's of value to those that can't or won't pay. Personally, I think it's impossible. For every "oh my god, they put timers on EVERYTHING", I promise there was something a lot worse that got cut or scaled down because they didn't want to feel evil about it.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there's a non-zero amount of evil in modern game design. But in my experience, there's very little evil in the process/teams until you reach the very top level - the people signing the checks. There are a LOT of levels up to that point though. And most of the team spend a lot of effort doing whatever they can to mitigate that evil.


Thanks for the detailed response!

I think we're broadly on the same page. I 100% don't think games are bad because developers are out to make a bad game or are incompetent. Those are all executive decisions and time constraints, or incompetence managing (at least in modern games, see Satoru Iwata saving Pokemon and Earthbound). I suppose there are the occasional incompetences of, for example, following a path that would be obviously incorrect with deeper consideration or experience, but I think that's pretty negligible. Even in the worst cases I'm sure the developers at EA or TakeTwo feel icky about what they're asked to do every year. 

I would definitely insist that there are bad ideas though. Like making Fallout games that aren't Fallout games, or Paper Mario games that aren't Paper Mario games. Maybe they're good standalone games without the baggage of the series they're continuing, but it's still a bad idea.


----------



## TedEH

I personally tend to like all the games that get shit on for not being enough like their franchise predecessors, so I'm outside of the norm on that one, I guess. In some fairness, I've seen some pretty bad ideas make their way to production and then get shipped. It's pretty rare someone thinks their ideas are bad, until it's too late, hah.


----------



## StevenC

TedEH said:


> I personally tend to like all the games that get shit on for not being enough like their franchise predecessors, so I'm outside of the norm on that one, I guess. In some fairness, I've seen some pretty bad ideas make their way to production and then get shipped. It's pretty rare someone thinks their ideas are bad, until it's too late, hah.


Yeah, I'm not saying all the later Paper Marios are bad, just that they aren't _Paper Mario _games and would likely sell as well if they were a different Mario franchise instead. The bad idea being the naming, not necessarily the difference in game design and their negative reception being outsized to their actual quality. A bad idea is contextual, basically.


----------



## TedEH

StevenC said:


> A bad idea is contextual, basically.


I wish it didn't work that way, 'cause people are missing out. New Paper Mario is fine - maybe even good.... maybe even delightful at times.


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## sevenfoxes

7th Guest


----------



## mlp187

I don’t recall if I’ve followed up from my previous post about Shadowman, so here’s an update:
My wettest dreams came true! 

The game is goddamn glorious and I’ve played through it, nearly 100%-ing it. My kids (very young) liked it too until I got to Deadside, at which point I only played on the local screen.

Newcomers may find the controls a bit annoying at first, but the aesthetics, design, and narrative are completely worth it in my opinion. I spent way too much time playing that game instead of my guitars and I’m going to do it again.

I bought the game on my Switch and PS4 to show support for NightDive studios, for they are doing god’s neglected work.


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## wankerness

So if I want to play it, I should get the remaster? I just dug out a CRT tv and have the N64 version handy! But I'd have to buy a working memory card cause mine's been dead for many years.


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## Robslalaina

This!



Spent countless hours on the MSN Gaming Zone from 97 to 99 because of it. Good times...


----------



## Manurack

I've probably already posted this reply, but I really enjoyed it on the first generation Xbox console back then!

Set almost 4,000 years before the first Star Wars movie A New Hope came out, this one was pretty special considering your character is the old Dark Lord - Darth Revan of the Sith, who lost his long term memory. In the game, you can either go down the Light side of the Force, or the Dark side of the Force.

Classic! Nostalgia has kicked in and I actually have it on my Xbox 360 thanks to the Xbox Marketplace, I bought it for around $20 CAD a few years back. I want to play it and start the whole journey again as Darth Manurack


----------



## works0fheart

TheBlackBard said:


> That would work if we knew for a fact that Bethesda wouldn't fuck them up. That said, I don't have that much trust in them. Every time they release a game, it's ultimately up to the fans to fix it.



Came to this thread to say Morrowind as it's my favorite game, and your post basically summed up why I'd be afraid to ever see it happen. There's that group of people that have been developing it themselves as a mod for Skyrim for the better part of 10 years now but the longer time goes on the less chance it has to ever see the light of day it seems. 

Anyways, I didn't feel like sifting through the 27 pages of this thread to see if anyone had mentioned Morrowind already, but if none of you have ever played it, I'd recommend at least watching a playthrough of it. The gameplay has admittedly not aged well. Hell, even for it's time it was clunky as fuck. Where the game gets you though is the sheer depth of it. The story is so rich and original that I can't think of anything else that comes close really. The world is beautiful and alien and once the story has its' hooks in you it's one of the most immersive experiences you can get from a game I think. Whatever the writer was on when he came up with the plot must have been pretty good lol.

Another great game I'd love to see at the very least ported to the Switch is Final Fantasy Tactics. A lot of the other 90's Final Fantasy games get the limelight more frequently when it comes to remakes or ports (VI, VII, VIII, IX). I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but the story and play style in Tactics are just so different from the rest of the series that it really makes for a very original experience.


----------



## Ralyks

After watching a ridiculously long video on all of the Shin Megami Tensai games and spinoffs and such to date, I think they should remake both Shin Megami Tensai: Digital Devil Saga games from the PS2 as one complete game.


----------



## Crungy

@works0fheart I could get into that, as well as Daggerfall. I gave Morrowind a try recently and it's not bad but I struggled with it, it feels very dated unfortunately. 

Obviously not the same, but I just started ESO and it's filling the void better than I expected lol kinda feels like I'm playing morrowind in a weird sort of way. 


Also:
I'll never get sick of Oblivion, but an updated/freshened up/expanded version of that would be awesome.


----------



## wankerness

Didn't see anyone mention this anywhere, but apparently they're remaking The Witcher 1. Total overhaul with open world format, etc. Now I'm not sure if I should bother playing the original. Maybe I'll start with 2! I was hoping to get a refresher on 2 before replaying 3 later this month, cause my first time through 3 I sure remembered nothing about 2's plot and thus was lost for a long time.


----------



## KentBrockman

Simpsons Hit and Run!!!


----------



## Nicki

I'm genuinely angry that Square-Enix has prioritized remaking Crisis Core over any other main line FF game.

Like... I get the business decision... it's quick cash because FF7 die hards will spend money on anything FF7, including a sub par spin off that the wider world didn't play back on the PSP...

But really, they'd stand to make more money from taking FF6 and remaking it with the Octopath engine. But no... too much of a gamble because the FF6 mobile port got shat on, which was square's own fault but they refuse to admit it, and the pixel remaster bombed because it wasn't what fans wanted.... They wanted 6 in the style of Octopath.

Seriously... remake the golden era JRPGs in the style of Octopath and it's like an IRL cheat code for infinite money... Not fucking complicated. But no... the tone deaf and out of touch boardroom of SE execs want to milk FF7 because that's the only mainline that they think will sell....


----------



## StevenC

Nicki said:


> I'm genuinely angry that Square-Enix has prioritized remaking Crisis Core over any other main line FF game.
> 
> Like... I get the business decision... it's quick cash because FF7 die hards will spend money on anything FF7, including a sub par spin off that the wider world didn't play back on the PSP...
> 
> But really, they'd stand to make more money from taking FF6 and remaking it with the Octopath engine. But no... too much of a gamble because the FF6 mobile port got shat on, which was square's own fault but they refuse to admit it, and the pixel remaster bombed because it wasn't what fans wanted.... They wanted 6 in the style of Octopath.
> 
> Seriously... remake the golden era JRPGs in the style of Octopath and it's like an IRL cheat code for infinite money... Not fucking complicated. But no... the tone deaf and out of touch boardroom of SE execs want to milk FF7 because that's the only mainline that they think will sell....


In my experience there are exclusively stupid people working at Square.


----------



## TheBlackBard

Honestly, I'd rather them go back to turn-based with their newer games. This whole Kingdom Hearts battle system or whatever it is just doesn't do it for me. The last great FF game wasn't made by Square, it was made by the guy who did the OG FF games, and that game was Lost Odyssey and it was a masterpiece.


----------



## wankerness

Knowing Square's recent business decisions, they'll probably hype up some announcement related to FF6, and it will be....a set of NFTs


----------



## BlackMastodon

Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader was recently announced and it looks/sounds like it's gonna be Divinity: Original Sin in the 40k universe and I'm here for it.

Gotta love licensed Warhammer games, eventually every genre gets a Warhammer game. And sometimes they're good!


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> Knowing Square's recent business decisions, they'll probably hype up some announcement related to FF6, and it will be....a set of NFTs



What, the 12k Terra masterline statue wasn't enough of a tip?


----------



## BMFan30

I always wanted them to remake Tony Hawk's Underground. I don't want anything ground breaking or new added to the game either. Just better graphics with fluid physics. That was the holy grail of THPS games to me. 

With THPS 1 + 2 being remade, I'm sort of holding onto the hope that they will keep going this way and eventually roll out THPS Underground as well.


----------



## broj15

Final fantasy tactics with modern graphics & online pvp + some extra side quests & no micro transactions/pay to win bull shit would make me buy a modern console. Not gonna happen since turn based strategy/ tactical isometric rpg's are such a niche thing but that's probably for the better as that would completely dominate what little free time I still have.


----------



## Nicki

broj15 said:


> Final fantasy tactics with modern graphics & online pvp + some extra side quests & no micro transactions/pay to win bull shit would make me buy a modern console. Not gonna happen since turn based strategy/ tactical isometric rpg's are such a niche thing but that's probably for the better as that would completely dominate what little free time I still have


Sir, I have just the thing.



TheBlackBard said:


> Honestly, I'd rather them go back to turn-based with their newer games. This whole Kingdom Hearts battle system or whatever it is just doesn't do it for me. The last great FF game wasn't made by Square, it was made by the guy who did the OG FF games, and that game was Lost Odyssey and it was a masterpiece.


Lost Odyssey is on my list to play. I'm just burned out on JRPGs for a bit because Trails of Cold Steel II just went on for far too long.



wankerness said:


> Knowing Square's recent business decisions, they'll probably hype up some announcement related to FF6, and it will be....a set of NFTs


This hurts my soul.


----------



## narad

Nicki said:


> Sir, I have just the thing.


I've been playing it. I like it, but it hasn't exactly messed up my work schedule the way that I think FF Tactics would have (or that Elden Ring did previously this year).


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

StevenC said:


> In my experience there are exclusively stupid people working at Square.



Squenix are in a funny state right now. Most of their great employees leave and become freelance or start their own companies (Mistwalker, Monolithsoft), or the get a guy in only to get arrested twice in the span of a month. No wonder that Sakaguchi himself is asking if Square 'are alright?'  Of course, that won't stop me from hurling verbal obscenities at them at any given moment.

I'm sure there's a small group in that Shinra company that shows a bit of heart. They bought back Chrono Cross, remade Tactics Ogre, and remade a game from the early 90s that a good 4 people outside Japan played just earlier this year. And they did just remaster of Minstrel Song. They've also got Front Mission 1 & 2 coming back soon, but I'd like to think of this as their apology plea after completely destroying the franchise with Left Alive. But on the other hand, they teamed up with Platinumgames to what a game with potential could be as good as Nier Automata... but we got Babylon's Fall.


----------



## Crungy

Squenix is the best name of anything ever, holy shit lmao


----------



## KentBrockman

BlackMastodon said:


> Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader was recently announced and it looks/sounds like it's gonna be Divinity: Original Sin in the 40k universe and I'm here for it.
> 
> Gotta love licensed Warhammer games, eventually every genre gets a Warhammer game. And sometimes they're good!


I had Warhammer 40,000: Squad Command for the PSP and used to play it a lot in 2008. I still have it along with my PSP and it has actually held up quite well. I used to play the online mode a lot too, although there was a very easy exploit/glitch that let your characters travel way further than intended. The real shame is that there was not really any replay value, but it was neat to see the models I used to paint show up on a screen.


BMFan30 said:


> I always wanted them to remake Tony Hawk's Underground. I don't want anything ground breaking or new added to the game either. Just better graphics with fluid physics. That was the holy grail of THPS games to me.
> 
> With THPS 1 + 2 being remade, I'm sort of holding onto the hope that they will keep going this way and eventually roll out THPS Underground as well.


Hell yes! THUG was one of my favorite games growing up. I think it was better than its sequel as well.


----------



## BMFan30

KentBrockman said:


> Hell yes! THUG was one of my favorite games growing up. I think it was better than its sequel as well.


Completely agree! Although I did have friends that were like 2 years younger that disagree with me on THUG being the best out of the franchise because they grew up on THUG2 and enjoy all the extra CKY-BAM-JACKASS era shenanigans that have been thrown in to make the game extra goofy.

I guess I appreciate the second release for not taking itself seriously but the first one just had a solid story, great mechanics, level design and customization. Also had minimal bloat to just be interesting enough to hold your attention through your play-through but also have infinite re-playability so you never really want to leave the game.

I played through the story so many times, not just the free skate mode. But THUG needed a custom skatepark/level designer like THPS2 had, which I also spend countless of hours in just creating my own spots for fun.

The "open world concept" with bigger maps with icon spots just down the street really just blew my mind at the time. I spend hundreds of hours just skating the Brooklyn Banks in the Manhattan level and other iconic skate spots they threw into the game throughout the title. They should make a THUG 3 with all the same features as the first THUG release plus a custom level designer.


----------



## Kubs

I would love to see the Remaster of oldschool NFS Most wanted


----------



## narad

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Squenix are in a funny state right now. Most of their great employees leave and become freelance or start their own companies (Mistwalker, Monolithsoft), or the get a guy in only to get arrested twice in the span of a month. No wonder that Sakaguchi himself is asking if Square 'are alright?'  Of course, that won't stop me from hurling verbal obscenities at them at any given moment.



An unfortunate part of Japanese culture is that there's a lot of hero worship -- it's all over the manga and TV shows, etc., and sadly that leaks out to the internet's perception of how things get done in the game industry as well. In reality there are countless people behind the "heart" of these games that people credit as being primarily person X or Y's vision. It would be like crediting Elon Musk with Space X's engineering accomplishments. Management and bureaucracy has a larger effect on shaping periods of success and failure in new titles than <insert name of creative person>.


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> An unfortunate part of Japanese culture is that there's a lot of hero worship -- it's all over the manga and TV shows, etc., and sadly that leaks out to the internet's perception of how things get done in the game industry as well. In reality there are countless people behind the "heart" of these games that people credit as being primarily person X or Y's vision. It would be like crediting Elon Musk with Space X's engineering accomplishments. Management and bureaucracy has a larger effect on shaping periods of success and failure in new titles than <insert name of creative person>.


So what you're saying is there are exclusively stupid people working at Square?


----------



## Ralyks

Am I the only one here looking forward to Crisis Core? I didn't have a PSP, and I don't think a lot of people did really.


----------



## TedEH

narad said:


> sadly that leaks out to the internet's perception of how things get done in the game industry as well.


In my experience, there's a lot of that hero worship kind of thing that happens _inside_ the industry too, not just in Japan. You see a lot of cases where someone might work on something for months, just to have [insert famous designer name here] breathe slightly in the direction of the project and suddenly everything has to be uprooted to appease The Great Designer. Occasionally this works out well, given that someone with that status maybe does have the insight to back it up, but sometimes it just makes everyone's life miserable for no reason.

IMO on any sizeable project, there are no heroes - the "real heroes" are those who manage to maintain a functional, productive, consistent, and good-to-their-people pipeline. Like QA people - maaaaaan there is so much good to be done with proper skilled QA people. But instead the industry chews em up like fast food or call center workers.

Anyway, what was I saying? Don't worship heroes. Instead praise good teams.


----------



## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Squenix are in a funny state right now. Most of their great employees leave and become freelance or start their own companies (Mistwalker, Monolithsoft), or the get a guy in only to get arrested twice in the span of a month. No wonder that Sakaguchi himself is asking if Square 'are alright?'  Of course, that won't stop me from hurling verbal obscenities at them at any given moment.
> 
> I'm sure there's a small group in that Shinra company that shows a bit of heart. They bought back Chrono Cross, remade Tactics Ogre, and remade a game from the early 90s that a good 4 people outside Japan played just earlier this year. And they did just remaster of Minstrel Song. They've also got Front Mission 1 & 2 coming back soon, but I'd like to think of this as their apology plea after completely destroying the franchise with Left Alive. But on the other hand, they teamed up with Platinumgames to what a game with potential could be as good as Nier Automata... but we got Babylon's Fall.


I never really hear about separate teams at Square, but of course there are. Cause they do release a few bangers every year, while also making unbelievably idiotic business decisions (NFTs, dumping the deus ex/tomb raider franchises) and releasing total garbage (mobile ports, babylon's fall, avengers, etc) and doing inexplicable, idiotic things with their biggest franchise (FFXIV's "reborn" version seems to be the only one with an overwhelmingly positive reaction since like...X). It would make me feel better if all the people responsible for the good games were no longer under the Square banner cause they're starting to get quite a terrible reputation.


----------



## Ralyks

Did anyone mention Heavenly Sword? Because after playing it on PS Plus streaming the other day, I think they one could use a good remastering, if not remake.


----------

