# Rumours of Caparison going out of business



## McBrain (May 25, 2011)

Caparison Out Of Business!?!?! - Caparison Forum Dot Com

The company behind Caparison is apparently in financial trouble.

This is what Meestursparkle writes on his ebay listings: "_Now is the time to start collecting and keeping your Caparisons as the word on the street AND the internet AND at the authorized dealers in Japan is that Caparison/Kyowashokai are on their way out of business!! As of the time of this listing I have not heard a peep of this on any English website..but there you go._"


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## Dan (May 25, 2011)

I bloody well hope not.


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## Rook (May 25, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised. I have a huge appreciation for production costs etc but Caparison are pricing themselves well out of the Market at the moment. I'm surprised Warwick/Framus aren't walking the same path. Great stuff, but people aren't spending that kind of money at the moment.


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## metalman_ltd (May 25, 2011)

Ooooo maybe prices will go down. That would be nice.


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## WickedSymphony (May 25, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised. I have a huge appreciation for production costs etc but Caparison are pricing themselves well out of the Market at the moment. I'm surprised Warwick/Framus aren't walking the same path. Great stuff, but people aren't spending that kind of money at the moment.





Caparisons are nice guitars but for the prices they go for you can get more guitar for the money elsewhere.


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## pink freud (May 25, 2011)

They'll probably do what everybody else is doing and release a $500-$1000 line of Korean-made guitars. It shouldn't be too hard; just go to whichever factory is making LTDs and Schecters these days and give them a different headstock template


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## maliciousteve (May 25, 2011)

Not surprising really. They're a lot of money and I don't know of any dealers in the UK anymore (just as an example). I don't see any Caparison adverts either.

On top of that most peoples reactions are 'I can get a prestige Ibanez or custom guitar for the same money'. I played a Horus and couldn't see how the high price was justified (minus the import taxes) so I can see many other people thinking the same.


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## Jogeta (May 25, 2011)

pink freud said:


> They'll probably do what everybody else is doing and release a $500-$1000 line of Korean-made guitars. It shouldn't be too hard; just go to whichever factory is making LTDs and Schecters these days and give them a different headstock template



they've already done that! the range is called "Chatting Bird"


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## Jack Secret (May 25, 2011)

Hardcore irony if Fender bought them...ya know, since they bought Jackson and the head of Caparison left Jackson but he still wanted to make Jackson so he started Caparison which are just like Jackson and oh no I've gone crosseyed.


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## gunshow86de (May 25, 2011)

*Rumor 

Sad to hear, but not too surprising. Their business formula just didn't seem very strong. 

Expensive, "barebones" guitars (I'm aware most of the price is for the skilled labor) + very limited product range/options + a weak marketing strategy =/= success for such a small company in an overall down world economy


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## McBrain (May 25, 2011)

gunshow86de said:


> *Rumor



 

It depends on the language spelling system.

American English: Rumor
British English: Rumour

And for some reason I most often use the British English system.


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## gunshow86de (May 25, 2011)

McBrain said:


> It depends on the language spelling system.
> 
> American English: Rumor
> British English: Rumour


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## yellowv (May 25, 2011)

As a former owner of several Caparisons and someone who has seen how they do things it doesn't surprise me at all. Their prices have gone through the roof and yet they can't even keep up with the demand they have. I waited months for a guitar that wasn't worth the wait or the money. They have lost most of their endorsees. If it's true it's not surprising.


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## ivancic1al (May 25, 2011)

Closeout sale???


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## Imalwayscold (May 25, 2011)

Well, theres me hurrying to buy one somewhat quicker than I was expecting!


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## rawrkunjrawr (May 25, 2011)

gunshow86de said:


> a weak marketing strategy



True, hell I never heard of them until I joined this forum, or maybe I'm just an ignorant guitar player.


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## MFB (May 25, 2011)

I played the Michael Amott signature at Nick's get together, and did it look nice? Hell yeah. Did it play nice? You betcha. Was it worth the same as my current CAR DOWN PAYMENT? Hell no. We get that you're a small company and make top-notch instruments, but if no one can afford them and you aren't really marketing besides word of mouth, then you're not going to stay above water; it's as simple as that.


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## yellowv (May 25, 2011)

MFB said:


> I played the Michael Amott signature at Nick's get together, and did it look nice? Hell yeah. Did it play nice? You betcha. Was it worth the same as my current CAR DOWN PAYMENT? Hell no. We get that you're a small company and make top-notch instruments, but if no one can afford them and you aren't really marketing besides word of mouth, then you're not going to stay above water; it's as simple as that.



And that CA Nick has is by far the best Caparison I have ever played.


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## Mindcrime1204 (May 25, 2011)

Maybe Romeo will play Ibanez now like all my other favorite guitar players


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## eaeolian (May 25, 2011)

Jack Secret said:


> Hardcore irony if Fender bought them...ya know, since they bought Jackson and the head of Caparison left Jackson but he still wanted to make Jackson so he started Caparison which are just like Jackson and oh no I've gone crosseyed.



That actually happened long before Fender bought Jackson. Sorry to break your infinite loop.


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## eaeolian (May 25, 2011)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> Maybe Romeo will play Ibanez now like all my other favorite guitar players



My money would be back to ESP, personally.


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## Rook (May 25, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> That actually happened long before Fender bought Jackson. Sorry to break your infinite loop.



I don't think he meant they happened at the same time...

Guy wants to make his guitars but not for somebody else (Jackson), who were then bought out by Fender. It'd be ironic if the guy who didn't want to put Jackson on his guitars ended up selling out to Fender, who own Jackson.

I kinda get the infinite loop thing  It'd be funniest if whoever made Fender's Caparisons for them left to make guitars under his own name then got bought out by Fender or something lol.


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## Andromalia (May 25, 2011)

I never understood their pricing. I played one once only in a shop, it was for once setup properly and was a very good instrument. When I saw the price tag, I started looking for gold knobs or whatever. They're a pretty generic shape, use robust but standard parts, and have finishes that do not justify an outlandish fee. A plain wood superstrat for this price ? No, it wasn't worth it. I could have walked out with two prestiges for that. Maybe if they were special or very high quality woods, but it was "just" plain mahogany without frills ffs.
At prestige pricing they'd have made a killing. (not withstanding the very different necks)


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## Djent (May 25, 2011)

I can see a firesale coming...


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## themike (May 25, 2011)

You dont think prices will go up since they are never going to be produced again? Either way I could give a shit hahaa


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## jordanky (May 25, 2011)

gunshow86de said:


> Expensive, "barebones" guitars (I'm aware most of the price is for the skilled labor) + very limited product range/options + a weak marketing strategy =/= success for such a small company in an overall down world economy



Did you mean to also describe Blackmachine?


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## Jzbass25 (May 26, 2011)

wow and I was waiting to buy a caparison applehorn tt after college, now Im screwed in getting one probably


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## MFB (May 26, 2011)

yellowv said:


> And that CA Nick has is by far the best Caparison I have ever played.





Oops


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## bulb (May 26, 2011)

jordanky said:


> Did you mean to also describe Blackmachine?



Except Doug's business has been flourishing and continues to do so to the point that he has been able to RAISE his prices haha!


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## Solodini (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, despite having never played a Blackmachine personally, his business seems to be growing. I think the similar negatives have just been from him learning his business. Blackmachines seem to have much more effort put in to them, in terms of the differences between each.


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## Rook (May 26, 2011)

I think there's more to Caparison's pricing flaws to me than just lack of cool tops or a nice finish, they are just a bit....


...meh.

I've played a few, and they play fine, can be made to play very well in fact, but they don't come with the most fabulous fret-jobs ever, rare or ultra high end hardware, good pickups (I rate Caparison's pickups on about a par with Ibanez's), the rosewood is always very brown and not deep red, and I just feels like a standard mid-range Japanese production guitar - like a Jackson or low end prestige - which is fine until you look at the price tag.

As someone who never has any intention of buying a Blackmachine (they just aren't for me) their business model as a whole makes way more sense. From the guitars I've seen first hand, they have this really exotic look and feel, every edge is extremely clean cut and without flaw, they come with great hardware and high end pickups, they're made in the UK (I agree hand-made doesn't mean good, and letting a CNC do it's thing is welcome!) in limited numbers, they obviously take a lot of time over them.

So you aren't just buying the sum of the materials and labour, but also buying into the hype a bit and the prestige, uniqueness and rarity of the instrument, and when you get it you feel like you're holding something really special. I'm not into them much, but when I got the chance to play a B6 recently, I was still kind of excited about it lol.

Caparison is cool, they just aren't cool enough for the money, you wouldn't know production was so limited.


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## CRaul87 (May 26, 2011)

Even if they were to drop their prices by half I'd still be hesitant to buy one simply because I find the Caparison inlays to be the most HORRENDOUS inlays ever to be thought of.


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## VigierUSA (May 26, 2011)

Completely regardless of how they play or what anyone thinks they're worth, Caparison did a real disservice to its foreign dealers (I used to work at one after all). **IF** they're going out of business, I'd have to assume this didn't help.

bmusic summed up the whole situation last summer:
bmusic Australia Forum - Brought to you by the 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010 Australian ESP Dealer of the Year &bull; View topic - bmusic no longer dealing Caparison

If your distribution network is cannibalizing itself, how could you ever truly succeed?

But honestly, it sounds to me that whatever company is above them is what's in trouble. This doesn't necessarily indicate that they're done by any means.


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## Konfyouzd (May 26, 2011)

Good thing I don't know what I'm missing...


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## HighGain510 (May 26, 2011)

From the ones I've owned and played, the NEW pricing (and used, as a result) on Caparison stuff boggles my mind. $1K? Yeah, I could see that. Over that? Why, exactly?!  Nothing overly special about their guitars and I haven't found a single one that could beat out a USA Jackson (which you could score used for less than a Caparison) so even though they're imported, I still don't get why they are so expensive. Hell, I just nabbed a new Ibby RGD 6'er that smokes the Applehorn I had previously, and I got the Ibby for $900!   (granted I got a special deal on the Ibby, but the point remains the same)


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## AngelVivaldi (May 26, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> My money would be back to ESP, personally.


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## THEE HAMMER (May 26, 2011)

CRaul87 said:


> Even if they were to drop their prices by half I'd still be hesitant to buy one simply because I find the Caparison inlays to be the most HORRENDOUS inlays ever to be thought of.



I'm the opposite. I sold my Horus's because of the trems but the only stop tail 27 fretter they make has no Clocks so I won't buy it.


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## yellowv (May 26, 2011)

To be perfectly honest my 92' Jackson Dinky Reverse reminded me a hell of a lot of both of the Hori I owned. Build quality and playabiltity just as good. Both have Schaller trems, Gotoh tuners, good japanese electronic components, both needed pickp swaps. Only difference is the Jackson is basswood and cost $300 . Now step up to a $600-$700 Pro model Jackson and you have a better guitar.


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## Customisbetter (May 26, 2011)

bulb said:


> Except Doug's business has been flourishing and continues to do so to the point that he has been able to RAISE his prices haha!



This. Caparisons have some mojo to them, but not enough to command such high prices. I've also never seen a popular guitarist play one on the television, so little kids won' be growing up drooling for one either.


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## Esp Griffyn (May 26, 2011)

maliciousteve said:


> Not surprising really. They're a lot of money and I don't know of any dealers in the UK anymore (just as an example). I don't see any Caparison adverts either.
> 
> On top of that most peoples reactions are 'I can get a prestige Ibanez or custom guitar for the same money'. I played a Horus and couldn't see how the high price was justified (minus the import taxes) so I can see many other people thinking the same.



My thoughts exactly, from all the ones I've played I've never thought anything more than "overpriced generic superstrat, what does this price premium over an Ibanez anctually get me?". I know it's all down to taste, but imo you can get just as much or more guitar, for a lot less cash!


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## MaxOfMetal (May 26, 2011)

Not surprised. 

I was really stoked to try out, and possibly buy a Dellinger 7, met up with the guy and everything over at MAE down in South Florida and was really let down. It was like an RG7620 with the neck off of a Squire Strat 7 (in feel, not quality). The fretwork was solid, not amazing, but certainly solid. It just didn't seem like a $2000 guitar, which was the asking price. It was a shame as it did look beautiful, I still LOVE those clock inlays.


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## PyramidSmasher (May 26, 2011)

Jogeta said:


> they've already done that! the range is called "Chatting Bird"



Im sorry to say this, but Chatting Bird is too lame of a name. I would probably have bought one, but it's such an embarassing name that I'd rather just wait until I could afford a Caparison.

Actually I just didnt like the chatting bird guitars in general that I saw (there were 4). If they make a cool chatting bird I'll buy it.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, though spec'd really good, there's no way the Chatting Bird line is going to save them. 

CPxyíXweb site yíõ -

Those Maple boarded ones are pretty, and the Gotoh hardware is great, though I've yet to see them hit North America.


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## PyramidSmasher (May 26, 2011)

Also in regards to Michael Romeo, no doubt he will play ESP M-IIs again. Or hell, he has enough Caparison's already to just play the ones he has.

ESP Signature Michael Romeo M-II, do you guys think its possible?


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## Solodini (May 26, 2011)

No way would I pay upwards of 400 quid for a chatting bird. If it's an x by y brand then it'll be Sqiering it and I do not want to pay that much for a headstock.

I don't think Romeo will just go without an endorsement. I think he'll take a new deal with ESP so he can just pick up a guitar from a rep in each continent when touring and hand it back when they fly away. I don't think he'll get a sig, though. He's not well enough known.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 26, 2011)

Solodini said:


> No way would I pay upwards of 400 quid for a chatting bird. If it's an x by y brand then it'll be Sqiering it and I do not want to pay that much for a headstock.


 
In thier defense, try finding a sub $600 guitar with Gotoh hardware.


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## decypher (May 26, 2011)

CRaul87 said:


> Even if they were to drop their prices by half I'd still be hesitant to buy one simply because I find the Caparison inlays to be the most HORRENDOUS inlays ever to be thought of.



Or they have the applehorn, which is just extremely awkward...


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## wannabguitarist (May 26, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> In thier defense, try finding a sub $600 guitar with Gotoh hardware.



Those trems are awesome


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## Solodini (May 27, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> In thier defense, try finding a sub $600 guitar with Gotoh hardware.



I'd rather a hardtail with meh hardware which sounds better, for the money.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 27, 2011)

Solodini said:


> I'd rather a hardtail with meh hardware which sounds better, for the money.



If you're not a trem user than neither Caparison or Chatting Bird would really be too much up your alley as between the two brands I think they make a total of four or five fixed bridge models compared to nearly twice that number in trem equipped ones. 

Not to mention your personal preference doesn't negate the fact that a lot of folks, myseld included, prefer trems, especially high quality Gotoh ones which are typically only found on $1200+ instruments.


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## Solodini (May 27, 2011)

I'm neither trem nor not but I just feel that for that money, I'd personally rather that the focus was on how the guitar sounds, rather than unnecessary price hike due to more expensive hardware. Granted, the hardware will have an effect on the sound but no way near as much as the pickups, woods et c..

I quite like Caparisons and have enjoyed playing them as they definitely seem to have their own character, to my hands. I just think that if they want to bring people onboard at an early stage then they should focus on sound. I'm sure most people would be willing to put aside lower spec hardware on a cheaper instrument and expect better on the higher grade instruments but crappy sound seems less forgivable. How much does it really cost to wind a pickup? Knock off the price of unnecessary frivolities and sell an even cheaper model so there's more of a grading to the instruments, rather than mid-price and mortgage as the only options.


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## Vinchester (May 27, 2011)

Near bankruptcy? I guess it's time for me to take over the company


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## Baco (May 27, 2011)

Well, I like Caparison guitars, I have a couple of them and they are amazing guitars, every single one...


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## narad (May 27, 2011)

For everyone criticizing the price of them in USD versus other guitars made in the US, it's a little flawed given how strong the YEN is. When you look at digimart.net and compare what the Japanese pay they're a bit more comparable - cheaper than Suhrs and plenty of Gibsons and Fenders. Before the recent price hike they really seemed to have a pretty good niche in the Japanese domestic market. Naturally when you want that here (non-Japan), you're paying all the importation BS and then criticizing the company for essentially being located in the wrong place with respect to yourself :-/

But ya, the lack of custom orders is pretty ridiculous when they're being handmade, small-production. Why can't I order a guitar WITHOUT inlays? I'm saving you time! I will pay you to NOT DO something! Why argue with that?


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## Rook (May 27, 2011)

narad said:


> For everyone criticizing the price of them in USD versus other guitars made in the US, it's a little flawed given how strong the YEN is.



How is it more expensive than Ibanez and (in my opinion) not up to the same sheer quality?

You spend 2K on an Ibanez J Custom here, it's going to be something really special, spend 2k on a Caparison....


...not so much...

See also ESP, cheaper still and similarly better quality (again IMO) than Caparison.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (May 27, 2011)

Customisbetter said:


> This. Caparisons have some mojo to them, but not enough to command such high prices. I've also never seen a popular guitarist play one on the television, so little kids won' be growing up drooling for one either.



Killswitch Engage and Bring Me the Horizon aren't popular? KSE's two guitarist and BMTM's rythm guitarist use Caparisons.

I really hope this isn't true, I've been GASing for a frozen sky TAT for ages.


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## narad (May 27, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> You spend 2K on an Ibanez J Custom here, it's going to be something really special, spend 2k on a Caparison....
> 
> 
> ...not so much...



That's all subjective. This forum has always been more pro-Ibanez than Caparison, but there are plenty of people that would prefer Caparison to a J-Custom. What's objective is that both are small-scale shops (J-Custom, not Ibanez as a whole) putting a lot of hands-on time into each build, targeting similar markets, out of their Japanese shops. And naturally they have pretty similar new prices, so I don't think anything is too out of line there.

Ibanez is also in a position to negate out a lot of the necessary baseline costs of simply running a business being the huge multi-marketted guitar company it is. To Caparison, those kinds of day-to-day costs - housing, accounting, transport - are more significant given their smaller size. There's an inherent inefficiency to running smaller-scoped businesses (especially in the USA, ***ing ridiculous!), and that has to translate into market price somewhere.

Try ordering a foreign custom instrument - shipping and importation taxes and customs fees - really can add up quickly. Do the same off a billet of 1,000 guitars coming in on one shipment from Japan, and it's not so bad. That's why comparisons with the prices of what's available in your home turf aren't always that principled.


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## Rook (May 27, 2011)

narad said:


> That's all subjective. This forum has always been more pro-Ibanez than Caparison, but there are plenty of people that would prefer Caparison to a J-Custom. What's objective is that both are small-scale shops (J-Custom, not Ibanez as a whole) putting a lot of hands-on time into each build, targeting similar markets, out of their Japanese shops. And naturally they have pretty similar new prices, so I don't think anything is too out of line there.
> 
> Ibanez is also in a position to negate out a lot of the necessary baseline costs of simply running a business being the huge multi-marketted guitar company it is. To Caparison, those kinds of day-to-day costs - housing, accounting, transport - are more significant given their smaller size. There's an inherent inefficiency to running smaller-scoped businesses (especially in the USA, ***ing ridiculous!), and that has to translate into market price somewhere.
> 
> Try ordering a foreign custom instrument - shipping and importation taxes and customs fees - really can add up quickly. Do the same off a billet of 1,000 guitars coming in on one shipment from Japan, and it's not so bad. That's why comparisons with the prices of what's available in your home turf aren't always that principled.



Dude, I live in the UK, everything's just as imported as everything else 

As for how subjective what I said was, I kinda disagree. I wouldn't have a J-Custom or a Caparison, and don't really follow the forum just try and contribute (no Agile or Axe FX here lol). You take a J Custom and a Caparison, and there is absolutely no denying things like the quality of the woods (rosewood on Caparison is particularly cheap looking) and particularly the fit and finish (fretwork etc) is so much higher on J-Customs.

I dunno, I know why Caparison cost what they do, but if they know their product has to cost that much, then they have to work to that price point. Spend a little extra time on the finishing, give a little on woods (they're probably paying under $100 in total for all their wood, another 10 or 15 to get nicer stuff isn't gunna kill them, similarly I have no doubt they can buy branded pickups for about what they pay to produce their own...

I know very well how the market works, and why stuff costs what it does. I'm also not the kinda guy to moan about a product or a company because I can't afford it, but I'm clearly not alone in thinking that Caparison is a bad deal. 

Jackson Japan clearly does it better, as do Ibanez, and they wouldn't run their big shops if it didn't pay off to do so and what you get in return is higher standards and more production too. There's no point in something being delicately handmade (not that I know that Caparison are) if the resulting product isn't as good as a CNC'd one.

I totally get your point, I was just trying to show that my point wasn't just a dig, there was a bit more depth to it. Still all just my view though, not stating anything as fact


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## narad (May 27, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> You take a J Custom and a Caparison, and there is absolutely no denying things like the quality of the woods (rosewood on Caparison is particularly cheap looking) and particularly the fit and finish (fretwork etc) is so much higher on J-Customs.
> 
> I dunno, I know why Caparison cost what they do, but if they know their product has to cost that much, then they have to work to that price point. Spend a little extra time on the finishing, give a little on woods (they're probably paying under $100 in total for all their wood, another 10 or 15 to get nicer stuff isn't gunna kill them, similarly I have no doubt they can buy branded pickups for about what they pay to produce their own...
> ...
> I totally get your point, I was just trying to show that my point wasn't just a dig, there was a bit more depth to it. Still all just my view though, not stating anything as fact



Fair enough, but I really disagree with the quality comparisons. Maybe there's something you don't like about on them, or you somehow managed to find one with bad fretwork or wood you didn't like the appearance of, but I have a hard time accepting that it's cutting corners on quality when, the most obvious thing to point to, the new Dellingers have massively thick cuts of extremely flamed maple:







And I haven't played a rosewood Caparison, but I will say that people have different preferences. I like RW dark and as pseudo-ebony as I can get, some people like browns, some reds, some with darker figure mixed in, some not. In my mind the Caparison guy's not on the phone, "So the good stuff is $130? What can I get for...$80?" I think it's just preference. Fretwork on the 2 I've played has been as top notch as any small company luthier I've played as well. So either you've got bad batches or I've got really good ones.

He's definitely not stingy with the woods on TAT specials either, though the price shows since it's the flagship model:






I agree with the pickups, especially the single-slot hums are lackluster, but I'd take the PH-R over any ibanez.


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## Rook (May 28, 2011)

^^To get one here, a TAT Special would be about £2700, whereas a J custom can be imported under 2k. It's a fair price jump. For what you can get J-Customs for here, pricewise they seem to float around the same price as something like a standard (no snazzy tops) TAT. 

I definitely see your point though.


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## eaeolian (May 28, 2011)

I won't argue woods - Caparison isn't really shorting anyone in that department - but the fit and finish and build quality (and especially fretwork) of the Pro series Jackson I just bought is better than the last 3-4 Caparisons I've played, and it's subject to all the same caveats about Japan.

Honestly, it's one reason I never bought a Dellinger 7 - it just wasn't good enough to justify the price.


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## Dan (May 28, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> I won't argue woods - Caparison isn't really shorting anyone in that department - but the fit and finish and build quality (and especially fretwork) of the Pro series Jackson I just bought is better than the last 3-4 Caparisons I've played, and it's subject to all the same caveats about Japan.
> 
> Honestly, it's one reason I never bought a Dellinger 7 - it just wasn't good enough to justify the price.



Speaking from experience of owning a few capas ive never had a problem whatsoever, though i have played some that were a bit off par. Like others have previously said i think its all subjective. Personally id go for a Capa above a prestige and other higher end Ibanez as the capa appeals to me more both in feel and in playability. 

That being said hopefully im switching to another guitar make more exclusively soon , I'll still be sad to see them go if they do dissapear.


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## jordanky (May 28, 2011)

I loved my Caparison, finish and build quality were top notch, worth what I had into it by far, but I traded around for it, no way would I sink the MAP pricing into one. I do, however, somewhat agree with both arguments posted in this thread. Given I have only played the Caparison that I had, I had zero problems with anything at all on it. I have played a ton of different Prestiges, and they have been hit or miss. Our store got two RG3550MZ's in with the same shipment, one played perfectly and one sucked, plain and simple. We had to do a complete setup and there was three or four fret ends poking out that we had to file. I'm guessing that it's the same way with other Caparisons, but the majority of people here in the states don't get a chance to check out as many of them as the chances are given to try out any Prestiges. Do I think they're overpriced? Yes, but I also think many of the Ibanez Prestige guitars are slightly overpriced as well. Just my two cents though.


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## Jack Secret (May 29, 2011)

I've been rocking out on my TAT Special whilst waiting for the "Carvin summer" to begin and it's still total fun to play. I keep forgetting how frickin' huge the heel is when playing up high but I still like the shape of the neck. 

I hope Cap doesn't go out. I remember finding my first Cap. I was cruising the GC used gear site and found my Horus Snow Cloud (which turned out to be a rare bird being made early in Cap's existence). I had moved to Virginia from NYC but was going back for studio work a few months later and cruised over to Brooklyn to pick it up for a mere $700. I toyed with selling it but all I got were lowballers on the Cap forums so I'm going to keep it. Besides, I did so well gutting the Ibanez collection that I didn't really need to sell it after all. 

Only Cap that GC has used now is a Chatting Bird. Ick.

Plus, I have my beloved Apple Horn as well. Mostly because it's ORANGE. What can I say? I dig orange.


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## SamSam (May 29, 2011)

I have only had the chance to play two caparisons and both were poorly set up applehorn. Taking set up into account I really don't understand how they can command the prices they do unless that one was a dud. A poor set up doesn't excuse that price and what to me seemed like pretty average build quality at best. All of the prestige ibanez I have played (let's face it, capas closest competitor) have been much more consistent in build quality feeling at least equally good for less than half the UK price. I won't even bother comparing them to my KxKs and I was looking forward to trying a caparison for AGES! 

I hope it was a dud for the sake of the die hards out there  

Nice looking. Ok build. Far too high pricing at least in the UK. I'll take my Daemoness full custom please.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (May 29, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not surprised.
> 
> I was really stoked to try out, and possibly buy a Dellinger 7, met up with the guy and everything *over at MAE *down in South Florida and was really let down. It was like an RG7620 with the neck off of a Squire Strat 7 (in feel, not quality). The fretwork was solid, not amazing, but certainly solid. It just didn't seem like a $2000 guitar, which was the asking price. It was a shame as it did look beautiful, I still LOVE those clock inlays.



Since when did MAE have Caparisons, especially a Dellinger 7? I remember mostly seeing PRSi, a few Shurs, then a small area that had a few Ibbys and Jacksons, including the only 7 there, an RG7321.

How long ago did you go there?


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## leonardo7 (May 29, 2011)

Maybe its all just a ploy to sell all of their stock of guitars?


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## SirMyghin (May 29, 2011)

Seeing as I have never met someone in the flesh who would run to the store to buy a Caparison before time is out (or even knows who they are), it is a pretty poor ploy. I had not even encounterred them before joining this micro community either.


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## THEE HAMMER (May 31, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Dude, I live in the UK, everything's just as imported as everything else
> 
> As for how subjective what I said was, I kinda disagree. I wouldn't have a J-Custom or a Caparison, and don't really follow the forum just try and contribute (no Agile or Axe FX here lol). You take a J Custom and a Caparison, and there is absolutely no denying things like the quality of the woods (rosewood on Caparison is particularly cheap looking) and particularly the fit and finish (fretwork etc) is so much higher on J-Customs.
> 
> ...




I've had several of each and the rosewood on the caparisons is generally of much higher quality than the boards on J-customs IMO. They are different birds alltogether but Caparisons are just different. It'd be hard for them to do large scale and maintain the QC and still meet the cost effectiveness and generate enough customer demand. I played horus's exclusively for over a year becuase they suit my hands and playing style, but many people wouldn't look twice at a short scale 27 fret guitar with a sponged on paint job, especially old timers. Caparison is a small operation that should stay that way IMO if they want to survive. (I know it seems counter-intuitive but they couldn't compete against Jackson, ESP, etc.... the whole big fish complex).

all IMO and i'm sauced so yea...


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## MaxOfMetal (May 31, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> Since when did MAE have Caparisons, especially a Dellinger 7? I remember mostly seeing PRSi, a few Shurs, then a small area that had a few Ibbys and Jacksons, including the only 7 there, an RG7321.
> 
> How long ago did you go there?


 
The guy was from CL and I was simply meeting him there. I don't like invinting folks from CL over my house, and I needed a place with a few amps I could try it out with. Not to mention I was pretty chill with the guys there, so they didn't mind usually when I would just stop by and try some stuff out. You are correct though, MAE has never stocked Caparison. 

Do they not have any Tom Andersons or Valley Arts anymore? I know they considered not carrying Jackson anymore, they just couldn't move enough of them. 

I guess since I moved thier 7-string stock has plummeted. I bought my XPT707, a black RG7620, and RG2228 there. I wonder if Mike Locke is still there. If you go in, work with him, he's the least pushy.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (May 31, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The guy was from CL and I was simply meeting him there. I don't like invinting folks from CL over my house, and I needed a place with a few amps I could try it out with. Not to mention I was pretty chill with the guys there, so they didn't mind usually when I would just stop by and try some stuff out. You are correct though, MAE has never stocked Caparison.
> 
> Do they not have any Tom Andersons or Valley Arts anymore? I know they considered not carrying Jackson anymore, they just couldn't move enough of them.
> 
> I guess since I moved thier 7-string stock has plummeted. I bought my XPT707, a black RG7620, and RG2228 there. I wonder if Mike Locke is still there. If you go in, work with him, he's the least pushy.



Maybe I just didn't notice them. I had been looking for sax reeds the last time I went, plus my mom was rushing me since she had to go to the gym.


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## fireheart82 (Jun 3, 2011)

Trans Special is a looker,, but the neck heal is to far up for my taste.. Anyone testet this trans special compared to a jackson neck thru heal? is there any technical difficulties..??


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## Sacha (Jun 3, 2011)

They once said my solos are boring, so fuck them anyway


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## Zeff (Jun 4, 2011)

hahah good, I got turned down from a deal from them because they don't do lefty guitars


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 4, 2011)

Sacha said:


> They once said my solos are boring, so fuck them anyway


 


Zeff said:


> hahah good, I got turned down from a deal from them because they don't do lefty guitars


 

Hurt much? 

As much as I'm not a Caparison fan, I still feel bad for them going out of business. It sucks when folks loose thier jobs, and I'm sure it doesn't help them that they're based out of Japan.


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## Zeff (Jun 4, 2011)

Pretty much only Jackson has anything worthwhile for lefty's for their artist stuff. 

My old band had an ESP deal, but I couldn't get on it because none of the lefty guitars had floyds. BCRich, Ibanez, Carvin, Dean, and Washburn all had a very limited artist selection for leftys.


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## yingmin (Jun 4, 2011)

Jack Secret said:


> Only Cap that GC has used now is a Chatting Bird. Ick.



I'd be surprised to see Caparisons at GC more than once in a blue moon. Anyone who owns one probably knows what it's really worth, and knows they won't get that much from GC.


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## Overtone (Jun 5, 2011)

One thing about bankruptcy is you never know exactly what's going to happen. In many cases someone comes along, pays the lenders part of what they are owed, the rest is written off, and the company is theirs. If they can't find anyone to do that and they don't restructure the company's debt then it's likely the court will make the company sell assets to pay back the loans. In either case, Caparison could survive and have a new parent company. If Caparison is a profitable section of the business the new owners would probably keep it around or find a buyer for it. If not, that's when they'll axe it. So you never know... they could even end up with a new owner who pays better attention to them, can fund the business,. etc. But honestly, these days, I would say it's a pretty slim hope for a guitar company that's not a household name.


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## Jack Secret (Jun 5, 2011)

yingmin said:


> I'd be surprised to see Caparisons at GC more than once in a blue moon. Anyone who owns one probably knows what it's really worth, and knows they won't get that much from GC.




I know GC doesn't know because I got my Horus there for $750. Suckers.


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## Demiurge (Jun 5, 2011)

I bet if everyone who said they were going to buy one actually did buy one, then this wouldn't be happening.


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## vanhendrix (Jun 5, 2011)

Zeff said:


> Pretty much only Jackson has anything worthwhile for lefty's for their artist stuff.
> 
> My old band had an ESP deal, but I couldn't get on it because none of the lefty guitars had floyds. BCRich, Ibanez, Carvin, Dean, and Washburn all had a very limited artist selection for leftys.



The entire ESP standard line is available lefty....floyd city

Edit: And you can also get _all_ of the USA jacksons still, for a slight upcharge. It's not like they threw away the templates when they discontinued some of the models


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## Zeff (Jun 6, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> The entire ESP standard line is available lefty....floyd city
> 
> Edit: And you can also get _all_ of the USA jacksons still, for a slight upcharge. It's not like they threw away the templates when they discontinued some of the models



I'm talking artist rate stuff. When your band gets 3 free LTD instruments per member but you can't because none of the LTD's have lefty floyds. That sort of stuff. The Jacksons do offer lefty but that 'slight' upcharge is a lot.


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## McBrain (Jun 7, 2011)

Jona Weinhofen just posted on Caparisonforum.com that _"i wouldnt worry too much about Cap guys. ive spoken with Itaru, everything should be fine."_ 

Then why no official statement? If it was my company, I would exorcise the rumours as fast as possible.


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## Watty (Jun 7, 2011)

McBrain said:


> Then why no official statement? If it was my company, I would exorcise the rumours as fast as possible.



Not to say that the company is being "shady," but if you're rumored to be going out of business, wouldn't it drive up the demand for the stock that remains? I can't see any reason why they wouldn't milk it for all it's worth...

Plus, I think it stirred up a bit of interest in the used market for Cappy's, of which I just cashed in on (NGD to follow), so I can't complain.


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## dancegavindance (Jun 8, 2011)

When it comes to these instruments, there's just no Caparison.


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## Andromalia (Jun 9, 2011)

^ ..............


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## gunshow86de (Jun 9, 2011)

McBrain said:


> Jona Weinhofen just posted on Caparisonforum.com that _"i wouldnt worry too much about Cap guys. ive spoken with Itaru, everything should be fine."_
> 
> Then why no official statement? If it was my company, I would exorcise the rumours as fast as possible.




"The rumors of Caparison's death have been greatly exaggerated?"


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## BrutalHaggis (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope they don't go out of business. As soon as I have a couple spare grand to spend on a guitar in my life I'll definitely pick one up!


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## arkohors (Jun 9, 2011)

Jack Secret said:


> I know GC doesn't know because I got my Horus there for $750. Suckers.



HAHA, so true. Just for fun, a couple of years ago, i brought in my snowcloud Horus to see what they would offer for it.....guy said they're not interested in cheap guitars that no one has heard of before.


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## vanhendrix (Jun 12, 2011)

Zeff said:


> I'm talking artist rate stuff. When your band gets 3 free LTD instruments per member but you can't because none of the LTD's have lefty floyds. That sort of stuff. The Jacksons do offer lefty but that 'slight' upcharge is a lot.



Sorry, I think we're getting confused here. "Artist rate" means the LTD stuff? My bad. Yeah pretty much none of that is available in left except maybe that EC-1000 (the Les 'Bortion, as we call it).

The upcharge I was talking about for Jackson is all the USA stuff, so while it's a sizeable chunk of money, it's not that much considering that you're already spending mondo coin on the guitar in the first place.

Sorry for the derailment. Chris Amott's white Caparison from a few years ago is pure sex.


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## longfalcon (Jun 13, 2011)

this sounds like meestursparkle hyping up to move his stock of caps


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## jordanky (Jun 13, 2011)

arkohors said:


> HAHA, so true. Just for fun, a couple of years ago, i brought in my snowcloud Horus to see what they would offer for it.....guy said they're not interested in cheap guitars that no one has heard of before.



I'm in the same boat. A local music store had a 2003 PRS Custom 24 that they were asking like $1500 for. I offered to trade my Caparsion Dellinger II that was practically mint and they laughed and said they didn't know what it was and it was probably a cheap import.


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