# NPD... Again... Lace X-Bars This Time [w/Metal Clip]



## Rook (Apr 30, 2013)

So today I received the next installation of my big pickup test (which I haven't started yet), so just thought I'd post my first impressions and clear a few things up. I was really looking forward to trying these out because I have the Aluma-90's in another guitar and those are a little unusual, I can understand why some people don't have the patience for them despite me liking them a lot. They have a slightly out-of-the-ordinary feel and a very unique - though potentially very adaptable, usable - sound. People told me the X-Bar was similar but in humbucker form, everyone refers to them being very Hi-Fi and 'wet' sounding with a very high high end.

I installed them not really knowing what to expect to be honest but was really looking forward to something a little different. I have to say I was really blown away by them, almost instantly. Having gone from the Aftermaths to the D-Activators and seeing the subtle changes there - a little more attack, a little more mid range - then from the D-Activator to the Ionizer, with a little less power and attack and a lot more low end body but a very similar overal sound in the mix, and a subtle change in feel. The X-Bars are the first pickups I've put in an 8 string that have taken away that slightly heavy-handedness that 8 strings can have, and that slightly hollow sound a lot of the pickups produce. I think a lot of pickup manufacturers try to put a lot of low end into 8 string pickups with some belief that lower range means you want more bass and that to me normally adds up to a slightly laboured pick attack and a wobbly low end that can be tightened up using boosts but always gives the sound a sort of *plonk* to the pick.

The X-Bars by comparison felt very fresh and very lively. They're much lower output that my DA8's and even notably quieter than the Ionizers. The low end is very clean and precise and not overbearing, the mids are very natural and present and again not spiky or overbearing, the high end is the unique thing about these pickups and much to my surprise it isn't really scratchy or single coil like as some have pointed out. If I plug it straight into a really boosted sound then it does start to shine through a little bit but it doesn't sound shrill or at all like a single coil, it just adds a LOT of detail to your fretting and picking hands, you hear every move either hand makes. Actually, not using a lot of compression and letting the front end low-pass the signal a little as many amps (and Axe FX 2 amp models ) takes the edge off and produces, as I say, a very lively, really fresh, clear sound.

Clarity in fact is a really importanrt point. From cleans to high gain patches the detial and clarity and balance on every note is outstanding. People have told me they love BKP for the clarity but I didn't feel that from them, I think I know the effect people are referring to but by comparison the X-Bars eat them up for sheer definition.

I've achieved some of my best tight high gain sounds, literally best, I've never gotten tones like this before, the 8th is so deep and powerful, leads sing, cleans are just amazing.

I'm gunna get some of my respectable friends to try them out for some corroboration and to make sure I'm not being mental, but I honestly can't fault these things at all. These are just what I wanted and are a clear (haha...) winner for me so far. When I do my epic pickup demos I'll let you guys be the judge, but these things deserve more credit, I've never had a pickup so versatile; _genuinely_ versatile, no half measures, great cleans, mouthwatering tight high gain sounds, singing leads.

I'm in heaven.

Here's a shitty clip for now, more on these soon.

Mayo Lace X-Bar METALZ

PS That clip went from zero to bounce in 20 minutes so excuse the slightly imperfect mix, gets the point across though I feel.

PPS Best played LOUD.


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## WaffleTheEpic (Apr 30, 2013)

WELP I know what pickups I'm getting now


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## Nag (Apr 30, 2013)

well uh, that was... brutal.


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## Rook (Apr 30, 2013)

I've sorted the mix out a little, same link. I may add some 8th into this silly chuggfest later if I can get my woman out of the house.

Glad you enjoyed it though, and I have genuinely struggled to get tone like that out of an 8 string pickup, it was dead easy with this, so simple.


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## stuglue (Apr 30, 2013)

I bought a pair of Lace Deathbucker pickups last month. I'm itching to get them in my ESP eclipse and this clip ain't helping!


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## WaffleTheEpic (Apr 30, 2013)

Rook, ma boi, what are the specs of your Mayo?
I want to use it in some good egg salad you know
XD
Not really, I just wanna know because I need to do a little bit of research on pups in wood anyways.


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## ihunda (Apr 30, 2013)

Great, thanks for sharing that!

Actually I want to try lace pickups those days but I am a little bit lost in their models.
I am looking for regular sized 7 strings pups, no EMG bass housing and between the X-BAR, Deathbar 7 and regular alumitone 7, I don't get what the difference is.

The text on lace website for the DB-7 and Alimitone-7 is the same!
Lace Humbucker 7 - takes high output and high definition to 7 string, extended range guitars for every style from Jazz to Metal.
7 String Guitar Pickup - passive, high output, high definition pickup for extended range guitars - the 7 string version of the Alumitone Deathbucker by Lace.

Anyone knows?


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## Electric Wizard (Apr 30, 2013)

Huge thanks to you. The x bar has been largely overlooked as a bridge pup around these parts, and I never understood why. Great to have another clip floating around.

I went with my gut feeling last august specing my XEN/OAF with x bars when there was about 1 demo of them around. I think this clip has validated that choice.


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## Rook (Apr 30, 2013)

WaffleTheEpic said:


> Rook, ma boi, what are the specs of your Mayo?
> I want to use it in some good egg salad you know
> XD
> Not really, I just wanna know because I need to do a little bit of research on pups in wood anyways.



Mahogany body, 11 ply maple neck with all kinds of scary woods, 5A maple top, ebony board, 27" scale, the string you hear there are my Circle K's 10-60's, haven't made a clip with the 90 yet, I'll probably add to the existing one.

I don't know which part makes this so good but as I think I mentioned, pretty happy!


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## Rook (Apr 30, 2013)

ihunda said:


> Great, thanks for sharing that!
> 
> Actually I want to try lace pickups those days but I am a little bit lost in their models.
> I am looking for regular sized 7 strings pups, no EMG bass housing and between the X-BAR, Deathbar 7 and regular alumitone 7, I don't get what the difference is.
> ...



they are the same size, the 'bars' are EMG size 

Alumatone is similar to X-Bar, i think its a full humbucker Aluma 90, the death has more treble and bass and is louder.


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## ihunda (Apr 30, 2013)

Rook said:


> they are the same size, the 'bars' are EMG size
> 
> Alumatone is similar to X-Bar, i think its a full humbucker Aluma 90, the death has more treble and bass and is louder.



Thanks Rook.
So the deathbar is EQed with more bass, treble and more output than the regular alumitone 7?
I think I am tempted by this Alumitone Humbucker 7, my AXE FX can supply boost and more bass/treble if needed anytime.


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## Rook (Apr 30, 2013)

Yes.

And yeah that was exactly my thinking, you can easily dial it a little warmer, little brighter, little looser, lighter tighter, it responds really naturally to that.

Buy used even, just sell them if you don't like them haha.


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## ihunda (Apr 30, 2013)

Rook said:


> Yes.
> 
> And yeah that was exactly my thinking, you can easily dial it a little warmer, little brighter, little looser, lighter tighter, it responds really naturally to that.
> 
> Buy used even, just sell them if you don't like them haha.



Yep, thanks for confirming my thoughts!
Now used lace 7 strings pups in Europe... Well, I'll create a WTB thread to gauge the market.


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## MetalThrasher (Apr 30, 2013)

Sounds great!


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## Philligan (Apr 30, 2013)

I know this shouldn't count, but those look ridiculously killer  

edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm pretty sure you just sold me on my next set of pickups  I really dug your clip, so went back and relistened to the few other clips on youtube and realized I really like pretty much everything I hear from these pickups.


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## Kyle Jordan (May 1, 2013)

Thank you for posting that clip. I've been on the fence as to picking up some of the X-Bars or waiting for the soapbar 60-8x EMGs to come out and you've helped solidify the X-Bars as my choice.


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## Adrian-XI (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for the review. Really keen to try these now!


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## Nag (May 1, 2013)

what do you think makes for the clarity of the x-bars ? is it the output, the structure of the pickup, the whatever else ?


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

Wow lots if responses haha, I was expecting more people to care about the Ionizers to be honest but alas...

@ihunda re used Lace bars in Europe - not likely, I know some Boden owners have been considering changes, maybe try your luck with them, otherwise they can be imported from the USA for very reasonable money, you probably wouldn't lose much if you changed your mind. Haven't checked UK prices recently though, they may be lower than I remember,

@metalthrasher thanks! Was expecting you to mention the Aftermaths hahaha, not a fair comparison though I guess 

@Philligan naaaah it definitely counts, I absolutely love the look of these, it's one of the things that first engaged my interest a few years ago, they have that 50's chrome thing about them like the bumper of a caddy yet are some of the most modern designs - lightweight aluminium, weighs notably less than a standard humbucker, those tones! Love em. Look so good.

If you have any clip requests I'll happily oblige, I can try put some DI's up or something if you guys want? Maybe you wanna send me your axe patches and I'll record something with them?

@Kyle Jordan my pleasure really! Very different to a standard EMG 60, not as hot, a lot more open sounding. There's a distinct bite to the pick attack rather than the usual EMG *chomp* sound.

@Nagash I've been wondering this myself. The things they have going for them;
-Very low magnet pull
-The whole body of the pickup is magnetically coupled as far as I can tell, so it's not like a rail pickup it's like a whole frickin bar pickup!
-The big bandwidth, it doesn't force out extra mids or muddy up the low end at all, the harmonics aren't competing in the compression of the amp and getting all muddled up
-The output, see previous point, but it certainly allows the amp to breathe a lot more

So yeah, probably a bit of everything, I don't know how you really define clarity in an electrical sense though!


To conclude to those thinking of trying them, they _are_ different and I haven't tried the Death Bar - which is usually what people put down from the lace camp as being shrill and nasty - but this hasn't been difficult to dial in at all, it does have a different top end to usual which you should expect but that can easily be used to make sluggish feeling amps like rectifiers feel more responsive, or it can be taken down with a filter and make it more 'normal' without the usual problem of the peak of the pickup being defeated making it feel really dead and dull.

A lot of people could do a lot with these, they aren't necessarily plug and play (though I have found it works with ALL my old 6 string patches which I've never managed with an 8) but with a little effort I feel they get better results than what others I've had so far.

Also, these are in a reasonably bright hard tail - I don't know of the bass-cutting effect of a floating trem would suit these necessarily, but they can only get better with warmer guitars, less maple!


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## vondano (May 1, 2013)

DAMN YOU!

I was set on the DA8...

now im lost in a sea of pups...

i play with no pics, so i guess i want a lot of definition, but not to the shrill point...

i'm having trouble with the stock DC800 pups (too much shrill, too much output)... i also use an axefx2 (so i can pretty much carve my sound)

any input for me!?! things i should consider?! i like the emg sized since it wont leave a gap in my DC800, but i was ready to let it go to get white DA8...

now i dont know anymore...

1st world problems, i dont know how i can live enduring such hard choices 

Nico

p.s. my pic-less metal: https://soundcloud.com/vondano/inner-stare


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

I did some checking and you are looking at £260 for a pair of Lace Deathbucker pickups. Used you're looking at £200 I'd guess


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## WaffleTheEpic (May 1, 2013)

Rook said:


> Mahogany body, 11 ply maple neck with all kinds of scary woods, 5A maple top, ebony board, 27" scale, the string you hear there are my Circle K's 10-60's, haven't made a clip with the 90 yet, I'll probably add to the existing one.
> 
> I don't know which part makes this so good but as I think I mentioned, pretty happy!



Sweet dude, so they'll sound pretty similar in my mahogany body, maple/walnut neck-thru Agile. Good enough for me. 

Thanks mate! +rep!



Nagash said:


> what do you think makes for the clarity of the x-bars ? is it the output, the structure of the pickup, the whatever else ?



From what I understand specs-wise, it uses an aluminum magnet bar not unlike pickups like the BKP Blackhawk, which is apparently much more efficient to magnetize as a whole than magnetizing 12/14/16 different pole pieces. The apparatus is also smaller, which adds to efficiency. Basically the entirety of the pickup is the rail. Larger magnetic output per electrical input and all that.



vondano said:


> DAMN YOU!
> 
> I was set on the DA8...
> 
> ...


Haha, I'm exactly the same way. "Should I get bareknuckles, or dimarzio, or seymour duncan, or black water custom pickups, or lace, or EMGs, or..."


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## crg123 (May 1, 2013)

FINALLY! Someone puts up a decent clip of these pickups. I'm in love with my Deathbar/Xbar setup. Those chrome ones looks badass in that mayones btw. I got the black ones and I almost regret it haha. 

I agree these are perfect for 8 strings. The clarity on the low end and when playing large distorted chords is like anything I've ever heard (I've played a bunch of BKPs before and I own the Aftermath set). They're brillant and I hope they start getting the respect they deserve. They CAN do amazing high gain sounds if you now how to use them. They're not like SD Blackouts which are going to give you metal tone right out of the box; the tonal possibilities let this become a really great pickup for anything you can imagine. That's just my 2 cents. I was excited by the picture and clip sorry for the rant haha.



Rook said:


> Alumatone is similar to X-Bar, i think its a full humbucker Aluma 90, the death has more treble and bass and is louder.



I'm not sure about the extra push in the EQ from when I emailed lace they quoted the pickup EQ at 10/10/10 (which I know sounds rediculous) for both the Xbar and the deathbar. I think the main difference is the output level is doubled for the Death bar. I could be misinformed though.

EDIT: Btw what is your rig/ EQ settings in that clip. I think thats even more crushing of a sound then I've ever gotten out of the deathbars haha.


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## Konfyouzd (May 1, 2013)

Xbars... Welcome to the club, brotha... 

And my fuck that shit is heavy... Like there's a little man w/ a sledge hammer inside my speakers... Fuck...


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## Whammy (May 1, 2013)

I can't overstate how awesome looking those pickups are.
So much so that they even creeped their way into my dream last night 

I dreamt I had them in my UV with a mirror scratch-plate and I was polishing the crap out of them to out reflect the mirror


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

@vondano I wouldn't use the DA8 for fingering (giggidy), I do a lot of it myself and the DA has a great pick attack but fingered it makes this slightly dull *NNG* sound with any distortion unless you filter the crap out of it, the Aftermath was similar. The Ionizers were waaaay better, very rich and full but rather than the weird sounding attack of the DA8 there wasn't really a lot of attack at all. If you're pulling up like i do (what a bass player would call a 'pop') they work great with clean and mid gain sounds and do clean fingered (giggidy) stuff really really well. In comparison to the X Bar, the X Bar you hear a lot more of your right hand, whether that's good or not is up to you, and it's a little clearer and brighter. Much less powerful too, more dynamic headroom I'd say.

Consider X BAr for a colder, brighter sound with more dynamic and right hand, the Ionizer for a warmer, fuller sound with more 'bloom' and 'blossom' as they say. I think the Ionizers will sound meatier fingered with any gain but as you increase the gain the X Bars will be clearer. Much clearer.

@StuGlue I imported mine and paid half that.

@WaffleTheEpic Yeah I'd say so, and thanks!

@crg123 

@Konfyoud  Glad you liked it 

@Whammy This is my mockup for something similar I made a while back


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## Whammy (May 1, 2013)

Rook said:


> @Whammy This is my mockup for something similar I made a while back



Awesome! 

If only you were able to get a stretched out one of these for the middle


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## ElRay (May 1, 2013)

crg123 said:


> ... I'm in love with my Deathbar/Xbar setup ...



I'm assuming that's X-Bar at the neck and DeathBar at the bridge?

Ray


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## crg123 (May 1, 2013)

Yea, also I have dual coil taps which work really well with these pickups. When you put the guitar in the middle position with both pickups coil tapped it has a real bass-like quality it. It's really unique (just found about that like a week ago haha)


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## MetalThrasher (May 1, 2013)

@metalthrasher thanks! Was expecting you to mention the Aftermaths hahaha, not a fair comparison though I guess 

HA HA! I was going to mention the AM but here's my thoughts since you brought it up. I think the X bars and the AM sounded the best so far! Between the two it's a tough choice! Thanks again for the demos!


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## vondano (May 1, 2013)

Rook said:


> @vondano I wouldn't use the DA8 for fingering (giggidy), I do a lot of it myself and the DA has a great pick attack but fingered it makes this slightly dull *NNG* sound with any distortion unless you filter the crap out of it, the Aftermath was similar. The Ionizers were waaaay better, very rich and full but rather than the weird sounding attack of the DA8 there wasn't really a lot of attack at all. If you're pulling up like i do (what a bass player would call a 'pop') they work great with clean and mid gain sounds and do clean fingered (giggidy) stuff really really well. In comparison to the X Bar, the X Bar you hear a lot more of your right hand, whether that's good or not is up to you, and it's a little clearer and brighter. Much less powerful too, more dynamic headroom I'd say.



thanx dude! but i meant that i play with no pic but not fingerstyle...

kinda hard to explain... i have the same position has if I had a pic, but i play with the skin of my finger...(i kept loosing the damn pic when i was 6, so i just never got to play with one...)

hell i can play bleed with no pic...

so what i'm asking myself is if i should go for a pickup with lots of attack since my skin dont have much... so now im kinda debating between white DA8 or x-bars....

thanx for your help man!

nico

p.s. i think i need something high output since my non-pic is really soft compare to someone playing with a pic... hmmmm... leaning to the DA8 right now for that reason.....


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## Legion (May 1, 2013)

This sounds fucking RAD.
Did you try to hit a massive 4-5 string chord with close intervals and see how it responded?


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

@Vondano Hmmmm even with that in mind I'd go Ionizer over D Activator, the DA wont make up for the missing pick I don't think and I actually think the tone will suffer a bit from a lack of pick... I'd go Ionizer over X bar in that case too, as that kind of playing on the X will just sound like blvllvvllvllblbllblvllv.

Ionizers powerful enough and it won't accentuate the missing pick sound like I think a DA might.

@Legion Certainly did haha, sounds insane.


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## vondano (May 1, 2013)

Rook said:


> @Vondano Hmmmm even with that in mind I'd go Ionizer over D Activator, the DA wont make up for the missing pick I don't think and I actually think the tone will suffer a bit from a lack of pick... I'd go Ionizer over X bar in that case too, as that kind of playing on the X will just sound like blvllvvllvllblbllblvllv.
> 
> Ionizers powerful enough and it won't accentuate the missing pick sound like I think a DA might.



thanx a bunch dude!


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## Legion (May 1, 2013)

Lovely. Tempted to try these. But given that my guitar is a bright ass mofo...
You think it'll sound too shrill?


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## vondano (May 1, 2013)

now another question! about the ionizers!

considering i dont have a middle pups (the single coil one)

how did you find the clean with just the neck and bridge pups? 

could you get the spanky and shiny cleans with just the neck and bridge??

IIRC, you also did not get the single coil one (since you used them in your pretty pretty mayo)....


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

@Legion What guitar is it?

@Vondano I think I covered that in a review I did of them 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pi...-npd-dimarzio-ionizers-clips-comparisons.html


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

Rook, so do Lace manufacturer 8 string X Bar pickups? These pickups look really big, did you have to do any routing?


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## celticelk (May 1, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Rook, so do Lace manufacturer 8 string X Bar pickups? These pickups look really big, did you have to do any routing?



Lace makes the X-Bar and Deathbar in 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 inch sizes. The 3.5 and 4.0 versions are drop-in replacements for the EMG 707 and 808, respectively, and for other pickups of those sizes. I'm guessing based on the look of Rook's guitar that what he's done is install a 3.5 size inside his passive routes. I have 3.5 X-Bars in my OAF 8, and they're easily wide enough to sense all 8 strings; Tosin's original Strandberg 8s had 3.5-sized Lace pickups as well.


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## WaffleTheEpic (May 1, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Rook, so do Lace manufacturer 8 string X Bar pickups? These pickups look really big, did you have to do any routing?



No, afaik they fit passive-sized routes. Just make sure you measure, because they have 3.5s and 4.0s that both claim to fit 8 strings.


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for the instant reply guys. I've found a seller on Ebay. Pretty expensive £119 for one.
I'm thinking the 3.5" should fit my ESP h208.


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## Sean1242 (May 1, 2013)

Thank you for this. This clip made me think of it as a calmer Aftermath which I find better actually. I'm really stoked to hear them in other scenarios like mid gain and clean.

Your clips on SoundCloud are fantastic. Very inspiring for sure.


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

Here's my Deathbucker. Very lightweight


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

Very unconventional design


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

Yeah its amazing how they work!

@Legion My guitar's pretty bright, they don't seem to get shrill as such, you can always warm them up a touch with a low impedance pot, 100k or something.

@Stuglue For a passive 8 string route you need 3.5", which these are, direct replacement for the other passives I've tried and were a lot easier to fit than the dimarzios hilariously haha, you will need to drill 4 new holes though, and you need 4 springs per pickup.

The 4" would replace an active 8 string pickup, EMG 808 or whatever.

I strongly recommend an import, much cheaper in the USA.

@Sean 1242 Tonewise kinda yeah, they feel much lighter underhand, very reponsive, and they really pick at your playing haha.

And thanks! very kind of you to say 

@Whammy Last I asked they said they had no plans to extend their singles 


EDIT: I also made another clip, it's shit but uses the 8th string. The amp model is a Plexi 50W with a very slight boost from a clean boost, drive off level up a bit, tone in the middle.

On other strings it sounds super crunchy and sweet, it's epic.

Groovy Shitty Mayo 8 Lace Clip

DOUBLE EDIT: To put that into perspective, I recorded this on the same patch, neck pickup, volume down a little on guitar plus delay.

Timonsy Tone


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

Thanks Rook for your info, i'm seriously considering buying one of these. Ebay has one for £119. Bit pricey. Do they come in neck and bridge or is there just one?


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

There is just one.

You can do better than 119 I promise!


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## stuglue (May 1, 2013)

well, looks like I'll need the 4 inch model. I'm guessing the 3.5 will leave too much of a gap.


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## Rook (May 1, 2013)

Was there an active in there before?!?


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## celticelk (May 1, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Here's my Deathbucker. Very lightweight



That's a six-string Deathbucker, or maybe a seven-string - note the passive-style mounting tabs on the side, which the X-Bar and DeathBar do not have. If you're looking for an eight-string pickup, I would not recommend buying the pickup pictured here.


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## WaffleTheEpic (May 1, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Thanks for the instant reply guys. I've found a seller on Ebay. Pretty expensive £119 for one.
> I'm thinking the 3.5" should fit my ESP h208.



ESP H208 had EMG 808s in it, right? Then you're gonna want 4.0's, mate.


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## Legion (May 2, 2013)

Rook said:


> @Legion What guitar is it?



Schecter Loomis!


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## Kyle Jordan (May 2, 2013)

Rook said:


> EDIT: I also made another clip, it's shit but uses the 8th string. The amp model is a Plexi 50W with a very slight boost from a clean boost, drive off level up a bit, tone in the middle.
> 
> On other strings it sounds super crunchy and sweet, it's epic.
> 
> ...



Those are both excellent clips. Thank you for sharing them.


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## stuglue (May 2, 2013)

Interesting to note. The ESP 208 didn't have EMG pickups, but I traded my schecter omen 8 for it. The guy who I got it from had installed 808 pickups in it. That answers my question, 4 inch Lace it is. I've been quoted £109 for one. Unless someone knows anywhere cheaper in the UK then I'll grab it from there.


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## Rook (May 2, 2013)

Not in the UK I don't, sorry.

@Legion if its a hard tail I think you're good to go, if its the trem version I'd probably go for something with a little more bass. I understand the death has more bass but it also seems to be the model people point to as having a lot of very single-coily high end. I haven't tried a death bar yet (I want to!) so I can't honestly recommend it. I am right in thinking the loomises come with or without trem, right?

Also, anyone emailing with requests: Yes! I'm happy to oblige provided you don't expect full studio quality productions hahaha. Just have these questions in mind when you ask:
What amp model do you want to hear it with?
Which strings? Rhythm or lead?
What style?
Do you want me to use my Axe to make the preset around that model sound good or do you want a plug in and go sound, what you get without boosts or compressors etc?

As I say, I personally feel these things deserve a little more credit, I'm smitten haha. I was honestly expecting not to like these and to love the DA8's but hey, there you go.


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## stuglue (May 2, 2013)

Thanks for your quick reply Rook. I may do some more research and try and find a death bar to experiment with. 
Failing that I'll put the x bar in the bridge and the paf 8 in the neck.


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## Legion (May 2, 2013)

Rook said:


> @Legion if its a hard tail I think you're good to go, if its the trem version I'd probably go for something with a little more bass. I understand the death has more bass but it also seems to be the model people point to as having a lot of very single-coily high end. I haven't tried a death bar yet (I want to!) so I can't honestly recommend it. I am right in thinking the loomises come with or without trem, right?



Yessir. Mine's a ToM bridge model. 
Dude, if there's one guy on the interwebz whom I trust to give me unbiased reviews on guitar gear, it's you. No jokes. I've seen tonnes of good advice here on SSO but VERY little of it is as unbiased as your posts. Massive thanks.


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## Rook (May 2, 2013)

^Blimey, big statement! Thanks a lot man  And yeah if it's ToM give it a try, it's just the often bass-sucking effect of trems I'd be worried about really. I think the extra upper mid of Alder will work really well with X-Bars 

@StuGlue Yeah, well if you get the deathbar and you do find the high end a little screechy - put this way I'd rather have too much of something and be cutting it down then not anough and trying to boost.

If I can hold of a deathbar soon I'll definitely slap a review up, it certainly seems to be one of the more mixed-review pickups out there which only furthers my curiosity. I'm just waiting for the Lundgren now of the pickups I've already bought, there's nothing else out there I'm expecting to like as much but no less I'll be trading around and trying more out if I can.


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## Legion (May 2, 2013)

Rook said:


> ^Blimey, big statement! Thanks a lot man  And yeah if it's ToM give it a try, it's just the often bass-sucking effect of trems I'd be worried about really. I think the extra upper mid of Alder will work really well with X-Bars





It's hard ash, man. Not alder. But I suppose that's approximately in the same tonal ballpark. Thank you!


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## Konfyouzd (May 2, 2013)

What kinda pot are you using? 250k or 500k? I'm running a 500 in mine but I'm considering a 250k. 

Also, I've never played a deathbar but every time I hear a clip it definitely sounds a tad screechy in the upper registers to me. Mehtab (Stealthdjentstic) let one of his buddies borrow his OAF w dual deathbars and dude did a video review w a good bit of upper register shredding. Sounds very hifi and borderline Dimebagish in that video.


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## Rook (May 2, 2013)

@Legion Oh I see, similar, hard Ash is a little bit more scooped, it'll have a nice low end for sure, the highs of the Ash shouldn't constructively interfere with the peak of the X Bar I wouldn't expect, so I doubt you'll get a sudden burst of inescapable brightness haha. Should be fine 

@Konfyouzd I agree, that's one of the things I base my views on the Deathbar on really. I use a 500K pot but there's an extra parallel resistance of about 220k between hot and ground, so it's essentially about a 700k pot that only turn the volume down half way. I was expecting that to make these scary bright but in actual fact I think that's what has given these such a defined upper mid peak rather than a flat, high extending upper range.


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## Carl Kolchak (May 2, 2013)

Forgive me if I overlooked this, but has anyone here tried these in a mahogany bodied guitar?


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## AngstRiddenDreams (May 2, 2013)

Are there humbucker sized regular Aluma-90's?


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## Rook (May 2, 2013)

^No, one size only I think, P90 size. It'll replace a 7 string humbucker but not 6 I wouldn't think.



Carl Kolchak said:


> Forgive me if I overlooked this, but has anyone here tried these in a mahogany bodied guitar?



My Regius is Mahogany


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## Carl Kolchak (May 2, 2013)

Rook said:


> ^No, one size only I think, P90 size. It'll replace a 7 string humbucker but not 6 I wouldn't think.
> 
> 
> 
> My Regius is Mahogany



Thanks.

Don't know if I like the tone or not, but I can say it's certainly unique.


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## Rook (May 2, 2013)

Certainly is! I couldn't have it if it were my only guitar I don't think, as a different flavour and for leads and cleans its just unbelievable.


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## lawizeg (May 3, 2013)

Will you be re-recording Unfinity stuff with these monsters? Love them by the way.


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## Rook (May 3, 2013)

As it stands, yes


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## Scattered Messiah (May 3, 2013)

I love my Deathbar (b) - Xbar (n) combo 
They sure are different, but I love the way they respond to pick attack and other dynamic nuances...
The coolest thing about them is, that they are so versatile (from sludgetones to really tight rythm tones everything works).

I am still debating wether I want to take the risk and try the Xbar in the bridge (as it might result in me wanting to dish the Deathbar for an Xbar) ...

so, Rook:
are you going to try the Deathbars, too?


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## Valennic (May 3, 2013)

I come into these threads to marvel at how all of your pictures in the first post look so damn good 

I'm loving the sound of these, but I'm thinking the Ionizers may be more my speed in the future. Guess I'll wait and see how my DKA8 sounds through the Deliverance . I'm worried about the dryness of that amp interacting negatively with the pups. There's a Deliverance model on the axe isn't there? Anyway you could help a brotha out and tell me how the laces react with it? No need for clips, just if you have the time to tell me that'd be fantastic!


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## crg123 (May 3, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> What kinda pot are you using? 250k or 500k? I'm running a 500 in mine but I'm considering a 250k.
> 
> Also, I've never played a deathbar but every time I hear a clip it definitely sounds a tad screechy in the upper registers to me. Mehtab (Stealthdjentstic) let one of his buddies borrow his OAF w dual deathbars and dude did a video review w a good bit of upper register shredding. Sounds very hifi and borderline Dimebagish in that video.



Just to step in a bit. The deathbar mehtab had was faulty. He got a new one which he said sounded fine. My deathbar is far from shrill its very mellow.


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## Konfyouzd (May 3, 2013)

(Not challenging you)

Have you seen the video I mentioned? I don't know if that video came before or after the situation had been rectified although I am aware of the fact that his initial deathbar was faulty. 

EDIT: Got it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srKKb6TRDDQ


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## Lace Music Products (May 3, 2013)

ihunda said:


> Great, thanks for sharing that!
> 
> Actually I want to try lace pickups those days but I am a little bit lost in their models.
> I am looking for regular sized 7 strings pups, no EMG bass housing and between the X-BAR, Deathbar 7 and regular alumitone 7, I don't get what the difference is.
> ...



The standard 7 string Alumitones are the DB7 and the Humbucker 7. The DB7 is simply the high output version of the 2. The DB7 works well as a neck and bridge pickup however a lot of players use it as a bridge pickup in conjunction with the Humbucker 7 in the neck.


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## Konfyouzd (May 3, 2013)

EDIT: Fail... I need to read things better...


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## Lace Music Products (May 3, 2013)

Rook said:


> they are the same size, the 'bars' are EMG size
> 
> Alumatone is similar to X-Bar, i think its a full humbucker Aluma 90, the death has more treble and bass and is louder.



The X-Bar pickup is a member of the Lace Alumitone family, which includes the Deathbucker, DB7, Aluma-90....... The Alumitone pickups are current driven, not voltage driven like traditional pups giving them a very wide band width, low noise threshold, and hi def sound. The X-Bar is closer in vibe to a traditional humbucker, whereas the DB7 is more of an in your face high output pickup!


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## Lace Music Products (May 3, 2013)

ihunda said:


> Thanks Rook.
> So the deathbar is EQed with more bass, treble and more output than the regular alumitone 7?
> I think I am tempted by this Alumitone Humbucker 7, my AXE FX can supply boost and more bass/treble if needed anytime.



Yes you are correct.


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## stuglue (May 3, 2013)

just a quick question for the Lace rep, i've just purchased an Xbar for my 8 string (ESP 208) just clarifying, I bought the 4 inch version. Can you confirm this pickup is the right size? The guitar had EMG 808 pickups in there before.

Thanks to Rook for his detailed reviews


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## Konfyouzd (May 3, 2013)

Yes... That's what's in my RG8. You could have asked just about any of us that ?...


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## stuglue (May 3, 2013)

yeah i could, i just want the Lace guy to confirm it so that if anything goes shit shaped i've got word from the company


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## Konfyouzd (May 3, 2013)

Umm... Okay... 

I installed these myself...


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## Rook (May 3, 2013)

@Lace Music Products Yeah when I said 'Alumitone' I was referring to the humbucker 7, didn't realise 'humbucker 7' was it's name, i thought that just meant its an Alumitone, a humbucker and for 7 strings. Just a plan pickup hahahaha. 

@Scattered Messiah I'd love to, but I haven't found one yet and I've no interest in buying one new just to trade it on and lose money lol.

@Valennic Will do man, I have a couple of requests pending so I may as well do a clip anyway haha.


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## Rook (May 3, 2013)

Bump for Valennic; tried it with the Fryette D60M model OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME.

The tone on my EP is gunna me absolutely amazing as a direct result of you asking me to try this out! I used no boost, no EQ, nothing, straight into the amp model, to my usual cab setup and its the first I've tried that the whole gain control on the amp is usable. I took some bass out, could do anything I wanted with the mids and it sounded good and just used the treble to add bite but not hiss. It performed particularly well with the gain half or below, super tight and clear, but adding gain just added body and didn't make it all messy and over compressed.

If the real amp is anything like the model I completely want one. I'd post clips but I can't think of anything creative to play 

Thank you!

And I forgot to say, thank you Lace for making these awesome pickups!!!


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## 0 Xero 0 (May 3, 2013)

... I was thinking about a deathbar for my upcoming strandberg, but I'm pretty sure I know what I want now


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## stuglue (May 4, 2013)

cool, my x bar has just arrived


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## Carl Kolchak (May 4, 2013)

Could someone possibly comment on what the main tonal qualities of each of the Alumitones are?


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## Valennic (May 4, 2013)

Rook said:


> Bump for Valennic; tried it with the Fryette D60M model OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME.
> 
> The tone on my EP is gunna me absolutely amazing as a direct result of you asking me to try this out! I used no boost, no EQ, nothing, straight into the amp model, to my usual cab setup and its the first I've tried that the whole gain control on the amp is usable. I took some bass out, could do anything I wanted with the mids and it sounded good and just used the treble to add bite but not hiss. It performed particularly well with the gain half or below, super tight and clear, but adding gain just added body and didn't make it all messy and over compressed.
> 
> ...



Aaaand I'm sold . Glad I could indirectly help! 

The amp really is like that, if you ever get the chance to own one, do so. Most dynamic amp I've ever run through. You're welcome , and thank you!


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## stuglue (May 5, 2013)

Rook is the Fryette. D60. an Axefx preset or a vst amp sim? 
By the way the. Lace. XBAR. I received yesterday doesn't have a paper wiring manual, just a mini cd which I assume has the diagram of how to install


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## Rook (May 5, 2013)

Axe FX Preset.

Wiring is very simple, red is hot, green and the striped white to ground, the other white one is for coil split or whatever.


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## GreatWhiteYeti (May 5, 2013)

Thanks for the upload Rook! A small guitar company near where I live told me these sound "only good through an Axe FX or a similar rack system". By any chance have you had a chance to play these through an amp in a live setting? 

I play in a band where our keyboardist sometimes takes over on bass (my thing) and then I play as the 3rd guitarist. Something like this where I could make a unique sound is pretty sweet. Thanks for any help.


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## Rook (May 5, 2013)

My experience of these thus far would indicate that how well an amp deals with these varies wildly. If you like the fundamental character of the pickups you can't go wrong, if you expect to get everything out of it all the time there may be some compromise, there's a lot going on here.

They're also relatively low output, so if you wanna go all out you may need a boost. With that said I've not boosted any of my Axe patches and have had some great sounds.

tl;dr How these work with amps depends entirely on the amp.


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## GreatWhiteYeti (May 5, 2013)

Thanks, I was more or less curious if you ran these through anything yet. I didn't know if it was the "it's new so I don't like it" attitude coming from the guy.. Between this and Ola Englund's demo I'm impressed by clarity.


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## Rap Hat (May 6, 2013)

It's awesome to see yet another XBar convert! I have one in an Agile 8st multiscale and it blew me away the first time I plugged in. Like you I found it to be heavy as all hell and was instantly able to get outstanding tones out of it. Really noiseless too, I don't think I could get mains hum even if I tried!

Here's something for you to try: make a patch in the Axe using a very clean amp with no cabinet modeling. With a hair of tweaking you'll have a very acoustic sounding tone. I was able to get it sounding better and more natural than the piezos in my Gibson acoustic, which surprised the shit out of me! I ended up adding a coil split(tap?) too - it's way different than a split of the DA8s for example, and opened up my tonal options even more (which is pretty critical on a single pickup guitar like mine).


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## Doombreed (May 6, 2013)

Just caught up on this topic and damn do those Xbars sound amazing!

Went back and listened to the DA8 and Ionizer clips and effectively hated them in comparison.

Thanks for the clips Rook!


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## Rook (May 6, 2013)

@Rap Hat will do!

@Doombreed, no problem, I'll record the same thing with the X Bar soon for a more direct comparison. To me it kinda makes the others feel a little restricted.


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## crg123 (May 7, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> (Not challenging you)
> 
> Have you seen the video I mentioned? I don't know if that video came before or after the situation had been rectified although I am aware of the fact that his initial deathbar was faulty.
> 
> EDIT: Got it!




I actually haven't seen that video thanks. I have a feeling it may have been before cause I know he hated those things haha.


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## Rook (May 8, 2013)

Despite haw moans people apparently don't like death bars I'm having a hard time finding one


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## stuglue (May 8, 2013)

0I got lucky with the pair of Deathbucker pickups, they were on Ebay,I found them with ten minutes to go. Didn't know whether to bid on them as I really didn't know too much about them. Seller was local to me, tried to madly educate myself about in ten mins. No dice so sat and watched and no one bid. I offer him £140 for the pair. Went and picked them up. They still had the cellophane on them.


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## stuglue (May 8, 2013)

As for second hand death bars, I think that's a tall order. Stuff like that will turn up once in a blue moon. I passed up on some Q Tuner pickups only because the seller wanted too much.


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## BoltThunders (May 8, 2013)

Thanks to this thread I have a X-bar and Deathbar coming for my 828


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## durangokid (May 9, 2013)

I'm torn between the Dimarzio Ionizers and the Lace X-Bars for my Carvin, it has an Ash body, maple neck and a maple fretboard... what do you guys think?

Btw, i've played my friend's RGA8 with Lace Deathbars, they sound pretty cool but the high end is quite annoying. Here's a video with them, i don't remember what i've set on his axe-fx for this particular video, but it was quite the low gain setup, i guess it was the Bogner Shiva sim.


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## Rook (May 9, 2013)

Yeah my X-Bars certainly don't seem to have that scrapy high end. I feel like I could make the extra power of the DeathBAr work though, I'm ridiculously curious to try one, so much so I'm considering just buying a brand new one against my usual judgement.

Go X Bars for bite, dynamics and attack, Ionizers for warmth and lower mids. The Ionizers really don't seem to have the same bite and clarity of the X Bars at all, not even close.

Different _leagues_.


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## stuglue (May 9, 2013)

Rook, i got my Lace X Bar from QKAdirect. I emailed the seller and haggled the price down. I got the pickup for £109

i guess the Ionizer might make a good neck pickup


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## Rook (May 9, 2013)

The bridge pickup would be too hot for neck, the neck pickup is decent but would contrast horribly with a Lace IMO.


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## BoltThunders (May 9, 2013)

And my pickups have arrived..Wiring them in now.


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## stuglue (May 10, 2013)

Rook said:


> The bridge pickup would be too hot for neck, the neck pickup is decent but would contrast horribly with a Lace IMO.



What makes you think that the neck Ionizer wouldn't complement the Lace bridge? Volume disparity, vast tonal difference?


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## Rook (May 10, 2013)

Both haha, the Ionizer will be hotter and will seem muffled by comparison.


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## stuglue (May 10, 2013)

I thought the ionizer wasn't as hot as the d activator? Wouldn't lowering the pickup height lessen the volume? I'll be installing the Paf8 in the neck and spending time getting the volume balance right.


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## Rook (May 10, 2013)

It's not but it's still pretty high output. Lowering can significantly reduce volume but will reduce brightness at the same rate, making them even weirder a combination haha.


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## stuglue (May 28, 2013)

Still waiting to get these installed.


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## Rizzo (May 29, 2013)

Sounds awesome, another pickup in my wishlist! :O


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## 7stg (Jun 2, 2013)

I have the DB7 for bridge and Humbucker 7 for neck. These are the passive shaped 7 string models.

For fit they are:
1.539 wide
.93 tall, A rout that's .85 deep works fine.
3.017 wide, add .5 inch for each string beyond 7 and an additional .5 inch for active routs. Their corner radius is effectively 0 so take that into account when measuring. 

The x-bars/deathbars come up to 5 inches see the Lace Shop, the product page has not been updated. 

They work great for multi-scale with no pole pieces to line up.

If you need to rout use a 1/4 inch diameter (or smaller if you can find one with a long enough cut depth) double flute down cut spiral to protect the finish. I use this bit - Bosch 85903M, Freud makes good bits too; their part # is 76-102. Straight cut is ok, and up cut spiral will pull the finish off the guitar.


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## lex_lacemusic (Jun 6, 2013)

ihunda said:


> Great, thanks for sharing that!
> 
> Actually I want to try lace pickups those days but I am a little bit lost in their models.
> I am looking for regular sized 7 strings pups, no EMG bass housing and between the X-BAR, Deathbar 7 and regular alumitone 7, I don't get what the difference is.
> ...




The difference between the Alum-7 and Deathbar 7 is the resistance and peak frequency. The Aluma-7 has a 2.4k resistance, and the Deathbar 7 has a 5.0k resistance. When you plug in, you hear the difference between the 2. Death in the bridge and humbucker in the neck is a perfect setup for any 7 string player.


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## 3headedmoses (May 7, 2014)

Rook, what are you running in your setup?
I put an X-Bar recently in my Agile Pendulum Pro 8 (fanned fret) and I was greatly impressed by the tone, but underwhelmed by the output. I don't normally like running pedals in the chain (I run straight into my Marshall JCM 900 SL-X) and I wasn't able to get NEARLY that amount of gain as what's in your clip. The only way I could get heavy with it was to really crank the gain, which I do not like to do. I'm gonna try the Deathbar and hope for the best. I just didn't know if you used and overdrives along with that pickup. Thanks.


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## Enselmis (May 7, 2014)

So which models would fit in the bridge and neck for a 6 string with standard passive routes. I have a warmoth tele on the go and I'm in the market for pickups. Seems like the regular alumitone would be the right choice but are there separate bridge and neck versions?


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## Scruffy1012 (May 8, 2014)

they sound crazy good, might have to get a pair myself. That clip sounded monstrous!


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## gigawhat (May 8, 2014)

3headedmoses said:


> Rook, what are you running in your setup?
> I put an X-Bar recently in my Agile Pendulum Pro 8 (fanned fret) and I was greatly impressed by the tone, but underwhelmed by the output. I don't normally like running pedals in the chain (I run straight into my Marshall JCM 900 SL-X) and I wasn't able to get NEARLY that amount of gain as what's in your clip. The only way I could get heavy with it was to really crank the gain, which I do not like to do. I'm gonna try the Deathbar and hope for the best. I just didn't know if you used and overdrives along with that pickup. Thanks.



I know the question was for rook, but I can at least answer part of it. For the output try putting the pickups as close to the strings as possible. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that Lace recommended doing that, but I can't remember sauce atm. But I have/had mine set pretty close, and I never had a problem with output with either set (Deathbar/X-bar and DB-7/Alum-7).

As to the gain, that just seems to be inherent to Laces. On both sets I had to increase the gain noticeably on my patches/amps to reach roughly the same level of "heaviness" as the pickups that were in it before, both passives and actives. The Deathbucker/bar will help that a bit, but your still looking at having to increase the gain. The good thing is that with the clarity of the pickups I've never really had a problem with increasing the gain as I find my tone doesn't get muddy with the increase as it did before the swap. Of course as always YMMV.

And I'm also gonna say yeah, he more than likely used an overdrive as a boost somewhere. 



Enselmis said:


> So which models would fit in the bridge and neck for a 6 string with standard passive routes. I have a warmoth tele on the go and I'm in the market for pickups. Seems like the regular alumitone would be the right choice but are there separate bridge and neck versions?



For a 6 string yes, you would want the regular Alumitone humbuckers. Maybe a Deathbucker for the bridge if your gonna be playing the brootz, though the Alumitone can do brootz with some tone-tweaking. 

And no, to my knowledge there isn't different versions for position. Just buy two and put one in the neck and one in the bridge.


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## Chrisjd (May 9, 2014)

Sounds awesome. KKERRRRRANGG!


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## Rook (May 11, 2014)

3headedmoses said:


> Rook, what are you running in your setup?
> I put an X-Bar recently in my Agile Pendulum Pro 8 (fanned fret) and I was greatly impressed by the tone, but underwhelmed by the output. I don't normally like running pedals in the chain (I run straight into my Marshall JCM 900 SL-X) and I wasn't able to get NEARLY that amount of gain as what's in your clip. The only way I could get heavy with it was to really crank the gain, which I do not like to do. I'm gonna try the Deathbar and hope for the best. I just didn't know if you used and overdrives along with that pickup. Thanks.



Hey! Didn't see this had been bumped haha.

That'll be the Mayo 8, X-Bars, 750k volume pot, no tone, into my Axe FX 2 Recto Red New (I think, might have been FAS Modern) into the the 412 Metal patch from the Axe FX Ultra into logic, onto sound cloud, into your face!

I had the pickups backed up from the strings a little, you get a bit more of a balanced sound that way, closer seems to accentuate some of the higher end a bit more. These aren't pickups you buy if you feel you're going to need to squeeze every bit of output from them.

I'd try a clean boost if you do need the output, it'll sound pretty phenomenal through a JCM900 is the SL-X is anything like a 900 that doesn't have the SL-X denomination haha. These suit Marshalls really well to me.

I'd be tempted to encourage you to try a little harder to get the X-Bar working before going to the Deathbar, the Death isn't anything like as versatile, but I agree the extra power could be just what you need. The X Bar is not a high output pickup though.


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