# Why does my new 2012 schecter hellraiser C1 sound like poop?



## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok so just bought a brand new 2012 schecter hell raiser C1 FR. Im not new to the hellrasier's. This is my 3rd one. I have a 2008 that I am comparing my new 2012 model too. They are exactly the same aside from the 2008 being white and not an FR and the 2012 being black and having an FR. But I really am not digging the sound from the 2012. The 2012 sounds very dry when compared to my 2008 on the same settings on my 6505+. The 2008 has ernie ball 10's and the 2012 has ernie ball 11's. Would string gauge affect this? Any ideas? I just spent a lot of money setting it up in drop C and I am thinking about returning it to the store cause I would rather play my 2008.

Basically my 2008 doesn't sound as dry and the distortion is meaner sounding. They both have identical pickups.


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## xwmucradiox (Dec 11, 2012)

The floyd makes a huge difference in the tone of the guitar.


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## SwanWings (Dec 11, 2012)

i had a hellraiser FR a while back and I hated the it sounded. I always felt like my Omen 6 with seymour duncans installed in it sounded waaayyyy better


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## 7stringDemon (Dec 11, 2012)

Could be the wiring.
Could be dead timber.

Hope for the wiring. If you're not great with wiring, take it somewhere to get checked out. Typically people will happily take a look at your stuff for no charge and just hand you some helpful advise.

But if it's the timber, send it back and try another. There's no way to fix dead wood.


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## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

I had a Jackson RR3 a while back with an FR on it. It didnt have EMG's, it had invaders or whatever and it sound GREAT. But yeah this guitar really isnt doing it for me... Im thinking about returning it. You guys think if I trade it for the non FR version it will sound closer to the 2008 model I love so much without one?

Not really sure what the dead timber means.... as for the wiring... Well i bought it brand new and if the wiring is off I kinda expect to get something thats new. I dont want to pay someone to fix something that shouldnt be broken when i buy it.


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## troyguitar (Dec 11, 2012)

Make sure you try a new battery if it's got EMG's.


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## Tones (Dec 11, 2012)

Cause it's a schecter. 

Trolling.
For real though it sounds like a battery needs to be changed in there for the active pups, assuming they're active.


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## Overtone (Dec 11, 2012)

You didn't mention whether or not you've tried adjusting the pickups and/or action. First thing I would do is set the action so it has the same kind of play as the '08 and then find the best sounding pickup position. I also wonder if your amp settings happen to favor the '08 in a really subtle way and that the right tweaking will get you a similar sound on the 2012 to accommodate for whatever differences there are in the sound.


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## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

I actually think my 2008 schecter is one of the best guitars I have ever played. There may be better but I havent experienced it. I had it set up for drop c so the action has been adjusted. The pick up height is lower on the 2012 than the 2008 and I have tried playing with the settings and it just doesnt change the fact that its too dry. I did actually swap the batteries between the two guitars and the 2008 still sounded much better.

I am still wondering if trading it in for a non FR version would be better?


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## Overtone (Dec 11, 2012)

It might be or it might not. 

You mentioned playing with the amp settings, and a difference in pickup height but not whether you adjusted the pickup height. IMO you haven't exhausted all possibilities until you've really tried different pickup heights because that has a huge impact on the sound. With EMGs you typically want them very close to the strings so if you can easily spot that they are lower that is something to look into. What I find is that you can tell if they are in the right general area by looking but then you have to use your ears to make fine tune adjustments that are not very easily visible. 

I also noticed they have this guitar listed with some new fangled EMG's that have a coil splitting options... maybe those just don't have the same mojo as your old ones. 

Also what do you mean by "dry"?


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## 7stringDemon (Dec 11, 2012)

By dead timber, I mean that it has no tone or color to the woods used to build the guitar. A good sign of that it if the guitar isn't very resonant when played unplugged or if it doesn't have good sustain.

So in short, it sounds like the guitar might as well be made of plywood.


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## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

The only thing I can think of that i havent tried yet is the pick up height. I do plan to mess with that. They are a little further away on the 2012 than the 2008. 

As for the coil splitting, the 2008 has the exact same pickups. Both coil tap, 81 and 85's.


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## Overtone (Dec 11, 2012)

Ah, cool... didn't realize that was around that long!

Considering how EMGs are known for having a fairly consistent sound across guitars I think it's more likely the distance from the strings (and to a lesser extent the setup, tuning, etc) would be coming into play than a difference in the woods or the bridge. 

Anyway hope it works out and if it doesn't definitely try to find a better replacement guitar!


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## craigny (Dec 11, 2012)

Get the Hardtail!!! JK, But seriously the fact that it has a floyd should not make the guitar sound bad....adjust the pickups id say...get those EMG's close. Actives have alot less magnetic pull and they always recommend setting them as close as possible.


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## Andii (Dec 11, 2012)

1. EMGs belong as close to the strings as possible. 

2. Change the battery.


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## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

Not really sure how to describe the term dry. My problem is more in the palm muted open notes. They sound like utter crap on the 2012. The 2008 has a more fluid sound to it and sounds better distorted. The notes decay much faster on the 2012. i guess that could be the bridge. But even with the decay issue the sound itself is different. Next step is to raise the pick up height. if that doesnt work I think Im returning it. Too bad im out the set up money. Ugh.


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## K4RM4 (Dec 11, 2012)

I set my emgs to be as close to the same height away from my strings as the strings are from the fretboard as i can get. seems to be a sweet spot, give it a whirl, just be careful not to pop them out of the guitar on accident. Next, change the battery if you haven't already. stick to the simple stuff first before going after the wiring. I have a 2010 or 11 hellraiser with an FR that sounds really mean. It doesn't sound as full as my 05 hellraiser C7, but it doesn't sound like what you describe. It is my go to sixer, even above my ibby S5470. Keep in mind that older schecter's had thicker necks for the most part and that can play a part in the tone as well.


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## Zado (Dec 11, 2012)

> I also noticed they have this guitar listed with some new fangled EMG's that have a coil splitting options... maybe those just don't have the same mojo as your old ones.


don' think so,mine is loaded with the same pups and it sounds pretty huge


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## devolutionary (Dec 11, 2012)

18v mod?


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## sell2792 (Dec 11, 2012)

7stringDemon said:


> By dead timber, I mean that it has no tone or color to the woods used to build the guitar. A good sign of that it if the guitar isn't very resonant when played unplugged or if it doesn't have good sustain.
> 
> So in short, it sounds like the guitar might as well be made of plywood.



The more I play, the more I think that'd make next to no difference. If it's "dead wood," it might not resonate well acoustically when unplugged, but amplified it shouldn't make a difference as far as I can tell. Magnets don't care what wood they're in.


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## sgsummers (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok so I raised the EMG's to the same level as the 2008 and it still sounds like I am playing the brown note with it consistently.


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## J7string (Dec 11, 2012)

Change the battery?


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## MetalDaze (Dec 11, 2012)

Is the new one made in Korea? I heard that some of their production was moving elsewhere.


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## MikeH (Dec 11, 2012)

As suggested in the thread several times, change the battery.


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## Overtone (Dec 11, 2012)

sgsummers said:


> I did actually swap the batteries between the two guitars and the 2008 still sounded much better.





also... more like C1 Poopraiser 

since you paid for a setup whoever did that setup should be willing to take time to check out both guitars and see if they can explain the issue. Either their work wasn't good or you have plenty of reason to exchange the guitar. 

I find it really hard to believe that a bad piece of wood or going from fixed to floyd could mess things up that much.


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## spadz93 (Dec 11, 2012)

1. change the battery

2. try and 18v mod

3. is it the fact that your 2012 has an 81tw while your 08 might have an 81? i doubt this is the case because i think they are very similar but hell it could be anything.


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## sgsummers (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah the pick ups are IDENTICAL. Im not going to mod anything on a brand new guitar that I could just exchange or get my money back on. Battery isnt the issue sadly... Both guitar have a MUCH different sound. The 2012 is much deeper too. But not in a good way. Its really strange to hear how different it is. Also yes it is made in South Korea.


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## Zado (Dec 12, 2012)

Try swapping the EMGs between the old and the new one..a friend of mine got an LTD which sounded awful with those pups,but after a change it came to life...but those emgs didn't sound like a regular emg is supposed to sound.

Also,if you find out that those pickups in particular are lemons,then swap 89<>81tw,maybe they will be more balanced


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## sgsummers (Dec 12, 2012)

yeah I guess that's all that's left to do... Not really sure how to change them though. They just pop out right?


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## Zado (Dec 12, 2012)

Emgs are really easy to be changed,"just" pull the strings off,remove the pickup ring (along with the whole pickup of course) and then you'll have something similar (not the same,IIRC mine)to this







take the cable off (don't force too much) and here's your EMG




(this is the exact pickup you will see)


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## rockstarazuri (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah, a guitar's tone made in an Asian factory will sound more 'Asian', if you want to play Swedish metal you need a guitar made in the Europe! *rolleyes*

Seriously, where the guitar is made doesn't dictate the guitars tone. Especially if the techniques, QC and parts involved in manufacturing one is the same.


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## Nonservium (Dec 12, 2012)

Just an off-thought trying to cover all bases, you checked to make sure your saddles are flush and screwed down tightly on the 7th and 6th string? You tried different strings, maybe you got a dud?


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## sgsummers (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks for all the info guys! Yep, looks like a dud guitar... ugh.


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## Zado (Dec 12, 2012)

so the pickup swap was no good?


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## Bloodbath Salt (Dec 12, 2012)

Are all the specs supposed to be EXACTLY identical, between the 2008 and 2012 models?


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## sgsummers (Dec 13, 2012)

Yeah it was no good. I returned it sadly. I'll just order another one. And yeah the specs are identical aside from the FR on the 2012. I have no idea if the wood is the same but everything aside from the FR is the same. 

The 2013's that come out in Jan are a lot different. The 2013's have a bridge EMG and a sustaniac pickup at the neck. Also 2 switches and 3 or 4 knobs. I know NOTHING about what the sustaniac even does or if the switches and possible extra knob goes to the sustaniac? It also has an FR on it. Not sure if you can buy it like this without the FR since its the only 2013 hellrasier I have seen. There may be other differences in it but that's all I know of.


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## Zado (Dec 13, 2012)

sgsummers said:


> Yeah it was no good. I returned it sadly. I'll just order another one. And yeah the specs are identical aside from the FR on the 2012. I have no idea if the wood is the same but everything aside from the FR is the same.
> 
> The 2013's that come out in Jan are a lot different. The 2013's have a bridge EMG and a sustaniac pickup at the neck. Also 2 switches and 3 or 4 knobs. I know NOTHING about what the sustaniac even does or if the switches and possible extra knob goes to the sustaniac? It also has an FR on it. Not sure if you can buy it like this without the FR since its the only 2013 hellrasier I have seen. There may be other differences in it but that's all I know of.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOXED7LKVbo

2:45 starts talking bout the c-1,it explains pretty well how sustainiac works


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## no_dice (Dec 13, 2012)

You could get different results from two "identical" guitars made in the same year, let alone 4 years apart. I'd say if you're not happy with the sound, return it while you still have that option, because if your other avenues don't work out, you could still be stuck with a guitar you don't like the sound of.


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## sgsummers (Dec 13, 2012)

Great video thank you! And yeah I returned it. Im going to use the money to buy an older Peavey 5150. I love those amps. But those sustaniacs look really fun to play with. I think I will just hold off til the tax returns start rolling in and get a 2013 with a sustaniac and see if its any better. Thanks for all the help guys!


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