# NGD - Purpleburst Headless - Grote (Pic Heavy)



## lewis (Nov 11, 2017)

so this finally happened...... -










The maple here is a really nice darker shade further up /\ darker than I expected and I really like it.

























Not corrosion /\, just dust that I never blew away until after the picture.











































So after the issues with trying to locate the guitar, finally it came in.
Importing it cost me £42 which was incredibly reasonable.

*Specs:*
Purple burst
25.5 scale
Ebony Fretboard
Mahogany body (no idea)

So straight away I tuned it to Drop C# (it came in Drop C) but upping it to C# made the tension better and it played great after that. Drop C was slightly too loose.

The bridge/magnet gizmo is actually incredibly easy to use and I cant believe Im saying this, but this bridge whilst taking some getting used to under the hand, holds tuning better than every set of locking tuners Ive ever had. Unreal.
It was only slightly flat from Drop C when It arrived and it has gone from China to the UK, plus being "lost" for 3 weeks.

Fret ends are not the best but at least they are not sharp. You can run your hand up and down and not get sliced to ribbons so thats a nice plus. I expected these to be the worst part about it but they are ok. Not amazing, not even good but useable. The higher up you get on the low side the worse they get, so at least you wont play there normally haha.

Rough frets. Now this was bad when I started playing. Doing vibrato over the frets in alot of places was dreadful. Lots of friction under the string where the top of the fret had not been filed smooth.
Be prepared to have to play ALOT like me the past 15 hours, to get them smoother. Im already noticing a difference between them now and when I first put my hands on it yesterday. Basically wearing the smoother myself by shredding alot.

The stock strings were actually good. So I have not restrung it yet. I will update this when I know how easy or not restrings on this bridge are. Not to mention, can it handle a low 80 string etc?. Or lower tunings like Drop Ab etc?

Neck is completely straight. Like amazingly so. Did not expect this to have such little issues.


Pickups.....
well here is where it gets weird.
Straight out of the gate you literally think your life is slowly coming to an end the second you plug this in. Like, they sound absolutely dogshit bad and the buzzing is ridiculous. Easily the worst Ive tried.
Then I laid down a tone demo using my Kemper and my normal profile double tracked (with more gating) and added NO!!!! Post processing other than compressing everything together, and in a mix (bass'less mix) suddenly the guitar sounds great?.
I am still planning on an pickup upgrade and will chalk it down to the Kemper making even garbage pickups usable.
Otherwise, its a complete mystery.
Profile is a 5150 from the Josh Middleton (Architects/Sylosis) bundle, customised

Tone Demo -
https://soundcloud.com/eridium/grote-headless-kemper-demo


Weight:
Oh my this thing weighs nothing. You could literally play a 3 hour show and not be in pain imo. So easy to play.
Also, the input jack location when using a right angled cable etc is still a perfect location. It does not get in the way at all and makes classic position still usable.

all in all I will give this a 7.5/10

I think worth the money completely. It plays really well. The Neck heel/pocket is spot on despite my concerns from the initial pictures etc, the action is nice and low and atm using Drop C#, the thing slays considering where its from and its cheap parts. Im playing faster than I probably ever have. The builder was a lovely guy who helped me daily through this missing parcel BS I had before it arrived etc.

I will defo recommend him to mates if they want one.
If anyone wants one themselves, PM me and I will give you the specific shop I used. I can completely vouch for the guy from a service perspective and my build is what I asked/paid for so really I cant complain.

If there is anything I havent thought of yet and missed so far, just let me know in here.
I will happily answer any questions etc.
EDIT: I have already ordered 2 new knobs. Chrome ones.

-Lew-
\m/


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## NickS (Nov 11, 2017)

HNGD!! Glad to see you finally got it, and it seems well worth the price. Sound clip is pretty damn good too!


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## Dawn of the Shred (Nov 11, 2017)

Congrats man


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## laxu (Nov 11, 2017)

Congrats, seems your gamble paid off! How much was the total price for this?

You could probably use some steel wool on the frets to smooth them out then use some polishing compound to smooth them further. Just tape the pickups and fretboard first so they don't get any steel wool or metal flakes stuck in there.

Is the truss rod actually adjustable? Looks like the headpiece partially obscures that area and there's some piece of wood sticking out there. That area looks a bit off, like the neck should be thinner up there so the headpiece covers it.

Now just grab yourself a set of some used Seymour Duncans to put in there and it should sound fine.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 11, 2017)

hmm surprisingly doesn't sound or look bad.


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## austink (Nov 11, 2017)

It turned out looking good. The honest review is refreshing. The sound clip is pretty good, great playing and the tone is good. The only thing I would fault in that clip is that the pickups have a lack of "dynamics". The attack seems a bit rounded for how aggressive that tone is. Something like alpha/omegas would probably bring that thing alive.


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## Wolfhorsky (Nov 11, 2017)

Nice axe, mate. Great base for modifications. And like @laxu said: there's something wrong with the alignment of the headpiece. I am sure that it can be corrected by You in few minutes. Anyway, congrats. I am happy, that it came to a happy end


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## Frostbite (Nov 11, 2017)

Is the truss rod access not aligned properly at the top or is it just the angle of the picture?


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## lewis (Nov 11, 2017)

yeah somehow I hadnt noticed that headpiece being misaligned. It does appear that way in the pictures. I will check that out tomorrow (Its nearly 11pm here and Im too tired to get the guitar out tonight haha)

It looks like it needs to go a few mm up to be flush with the neck. Weird. Anyway I will shed more light on this.
Hopefully its just a simple matter of unscrewing it, and relocating it and screwing it back in.

Price in total including what I paid for Customs comes in at around the $460mark.
Had I just took a bog standard one without hardcase, it would have been around $335 incl customs

thanks everyone so far for the feedback.
Regards to the tone I used, I did have to run a compressor block infront to get any kind of power/sustain from these pickups which is where the Aggressive, but no dynamic final result came from.
Great ear to pick that up @austink

EDIT: For anyone wondering, it is a Veneer KOA top


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## exo (Nov 11, 2017)

Looks great man! That little sound sample is nice, too! Gave you a follow, dig the style.


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## Chokey Chicken (Nov 12, 2017)

A little rough around the edges, what with the stripped screws on the headpiece and random fret slots visible from the side, but looks pretty good. The headpiece is a tad strange though, what with not covering all the end grain, and lacking a proper nut with a zero fret. Not a huge deal, but I remember non-nutted zero frets wear down and cause pinging when notes are bent. 

All of that aside, it looks nice and doesn't sound half bad. The nit-picky issues also don't effect playability, so that's a big plus. I'd consider it a win, especially after a pickup swap.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Nov 12, 2017)

Most important question: 

Is the scale length correct on this one, and can it be properly intonated?


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## ElRay (Nov 12, 2017)

lewis said:


> ... The bridge/magnet gizmo is actually incredibly easy to use and I cant believe Im saying this, but this bridge whilst taking some getting used to under the hand, holds tuning better than every set of locking tuners Ive ever had. Unreal. ...



I was about to ask you if you thought this was worth the $50-$60 they sell for on eBay, but I figured I'd check the price first ... They were all about $90 shipped. 

So, the question becomes: "Is the bridge set-up worth the $90 they go for on eBay? If not, how much would you spend for it?"


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## lewis (Nov 12, 2017)

Firstly it seems on inspection you can just fit an alan key in for truss rod adjustment. I will confirm this tomorrow but from eyesight it seems that it will just fit despite the misplaced headpiece.

The scale length on mine is fine. I had him send measurement pictures before he shipped it to confirm its the correct scale length which it is. It intonates and sounds great note wise. I shredded on it today too to showcase it and my playing skills to my family and it sounded sweet.

And to answer the question about the bridge, i do think its worth $90 incl shipping.it holds tune so well and when you think great brand locking tuners cost a fortune this seems money well spent.
Its not mind blowing like hipshot offerings etc but its functional and works great to hold tune. Im a fast and hard player and yet you can pick it up hours later and carry on playing with strings in tune with each other. Very cool.

The screws look more stripped than they are actually. I blew away some of the dust and yes they seem stripped slightly but not as bad as it looks in pictures.

If the trus rod is workable i will probably just leave it as is. It does not affect playability at all.

I can confirm hard bends around the 1st fret does give the shift or twang where it feels like the string is moving slightly or whatever every now and again. Though this does not put me off enough to affect my playing


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## Decapitated (Nov 12, 2017)

Wow, turned out a lot better than I thought it would. Congrats!


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## Señor Voorhees (Nov 12, 2017)

The bridge is new, which is worth noting. I'd say it's a bit too early to tell if it's maintaining tuning for the simple fact that longevity is a factor. (clearly you can't comment on that since it's brand new though.) Parts could rust up, break, stop functioning as it initially did, etc. Sperzels don't exactly cost a fortune (~$60) unless you consider this bridge (~$90) as costing a fortune as well. 

Still, as a headless option, I'm very interested in how well it holds up considering your other options ARE very much more expensive than locking tuners. Stripped screws aren't the end of the world so that's not a huge issue. I'd personally replace them just because though. You're certainly better off than the Gibson explorer we have. Strap button screws are unpleasant to the touch because they're sorta stripped out.

As a side note, I'd like to recommend you replacing the screws that are used with the strap buttons. I've bought a few cheap chinese kits in the past, and something that is fairly common is the use of garbage screws. You might want to replace your neck screws as well just to be safe, but I've had the strap button screws literally snap off in the past. (shaft of the screw still in the guitar, but the head came off.) For the headpiece, pickups, etc it's not a huge deal, but screws that are important for holding weight would be worth swapping out. Shouldn't be more than like 5 or 10 bucks, and it'll potentially save you one hell of a headache. 

I'm glad to see the guitar made it to your hands though. I was super bummed for you when you were dealing with it being lost to the wind. I'm also very interested to know how much of a pain in the ass swapping strings is, so please let us know when you do that.


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## lewis (Nov 12, 2017)

Señor Voorhees said:


> The bridge is new, which is worth noting. I'd say it's a bit too early to tell if it's maintaining tuning for the simple fact that longevity is a factor. (clearly you can't comment on that since it's brand new though.) Parts could rust up, break, stop functioning as it initially did, etc. Sperzels don't exactly cost a fortune (~$60) unless you consider this bridge (~$90) as costing a fortune as well.
> 
> Still, as a headless option, I'm very interested in how well it holds up considering your other options ARE very much more expensive than locking tuners. Stripped screws aren't the end of the world so that's not a huge issue. I'd personally replace them just because though. You're certainly better off than the Gibson explorer we have. Strap button screws are unpleasant to the touch because they're sorta stripped out.
> 
> ...



Yeah I guess you are right regards to the cost of lockers/bridge.
In my mind I was thinking about when you upgrade like an 8 string etc (which ive had to do too many times in the past) and obviously that costs more.

Good Idea regards to the Button screws. I will get in some replacement ones ASAP.

Regards to mods, I will document every process and post in here including any potential problems I face ect


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## lewis (Nov 12, 2017)

Would this replacement locking headpiece actually make tuning even better?.


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 12, 2017)

Well it’ll certainly keep the strings in place over the zero fret a lot better than the current headpiece


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## lewis (Nov 12, 2017)

DudeManBrother said:


> Well it’ll certainly keep the strings in place over the zero fret a lot better than the current headpiece


Thats exactly what i was thinking. Plus I will have to remove the stock one anyway to align it properly. May aswell do the 2 things at the same time.


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 12, 2017)

Yeah for sure. It looks more robust and nicer overall which is another bonus. Swap that, and do a pickup swap and you’ll have a nice player for sure.


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## ElRay (Nov 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> ... And to answer the question about the bridge, i do think its worth $90 incl shipping.it holds tune so well and when you think great brand locking tuners cost a fortune this seems money well spent. ...



How are the strings attached at the bridge? I would have expected the ball end at the bridge and some kind of a string-lock at the headpiece.


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## lewis (Nov 13, 2017)

ElRay said:


> How are the strings attached at the bridge? I would have expected the ball end at the bridge and some kind of a string-lock at the headpiece.


That is one thing i dont know yet. They do appear to just wrap around in the bridge.
I will try and grab a picture and maybe we can work it out


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## lewis (Nov 13, 2017)

Ive just ordered one of these after confirming the measurements are exactly the same.
The only thing that is different is the placement of the 2 small screws that bolt the plate down into the top of the neck/fretboard.
The older holes from my existing one, will be covered by this locking plate (Directly under locking plate bolt 1 and 3) and 2 small new screw holes will need to be drilled closer together in the middle. No problem.

Im wanting to go chrome for this to match my planned mods so I ordered this one -






@ElRay this is how the strings go in the bridge. They wrap around. Not sure yet how, but -


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## lewis (Nov 13, 2017)

also, this dude has made his own "tuning key knob" which does look like it would be even better than the provided Z key.






Anyone got any idea where you find a hex key piece small enough to be held inside of a volume knob like that /\ ?

Or do I need to literally try and cut down a normal hex key? haha


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## Dcm81 (Nov 13, 2017)

Glad to see this finally arrived - and in good shape. Nice one Lewis!



lewis said:


> Anyone got any idea where you find a hex key piece small enough to be held inside of a volume knob like that /\ ?
> 
> Or do I need to literally try and cut down a normal hex key? haha



One of those small bits should fit - like the interchangeable ones you'd use on a screwdriver with an adapter for different bits.......sorry for the shite explination ;-D

like these:


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## lewis (Nov 13, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> Glad to see this finally arrived - and in good shape. Nice one Lewis!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you!  the more I play it the happier I am. It is a perfect mod platform.

and DOH of course /\ haha. Cheers for that. For some reason I completely forgot they existed haha.


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## buriedoutback (Nov 13, 2017)

super cool man. i'm happy it's all working out for you. i'm stoked for your mods as well \m/ \m/


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## lewis (Nov 14, 2017)

I will try and get some videos of playing up soon!


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## lewis (Nov 14, 2017)

first little mod done today.
New chrome knobs with rubber grips. -


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## lewis (Nov 15, 2017)

Photoshop of the planned mod aesthetic.
Obviously the chrome headpiece will be on too and Im wanting to add an Active EQ knob under the tone. Maybe something like the EMG RPC which tightens low end whilst boosting highs. Gives out like a single coil type twang which will help tighten the EMG 57's bottom end whilst Im tuned in Drop G#






All electronics will be replaced with EMG stuff and I will re-shield properly with copper shielding tape.

Also if it will fit, longterm I will put the Fishman USB battery recharge pack in this too. Lovely compact modern guitar with modern features.


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## Ivars V (Nov 15, 2017)

But if you go emg route, you don't need to shield the guitar.


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## exo (Nov 15, 2017)

I just wanna know if you've figured out re-stringing, and if that bridge will actually take an appropriate gauge string for drop G#.....


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## bostjan (Nov 15, 2017)

So glad to see this made it into your hands. The mods should look great.

I'm also a little concerned about that headpiece - it looks like a pretty bad fit, overall, but everything else on the guitar looks great.

Before doing anything crazy with the frets, you might want to change the strings first. It's maybe 20% or less chance that the strings are the problem with the rubbing feeling you get between frets and strings, but it's easy enough to rule it out, especially if you want to change strings anyway.

I have a lot of questions about this bridge. I'm intrigued by stuff like this, for whatever reason, because of the mystery involved.

1. Does the hex peg hold the saddle pieces in place? If so, is it possible to change one string at a time, say like the D string?
2. How are the strings held in place? Can a string with a large, bass-sized ball end be used?
3. Licensed by KO? Who is KO? Patent? Seems kind of vague. Oh well.
4. It looks like the bearing parts of the bridge are brass. Are they brass?

I think you might find out these answers when you change string for the first time.

In close-up shots, this guitar looks great, honestly. The top seems to have tons of character, and the fretwork looks on par with the best sub-$1000 guitars I've seen.


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## xzacx (Nov 15, 2017)

lewis said:


> Photoshop of the planned mod aesthetic.
> Obviously the chrome headpiece will be on too and Im wanting to add an Active EQ knob under the tone. Maybe something like the EMG RPC which tightens low end whilst boosting highs. Gives out like a single coil type twang which will help tighten the EMG 57's bottom end whilst Im tuned in Drop G#
> 
> 
> ...



I like the idea of the chrome, and think it goes great with the finish, but I also think it clashes with the brass pieces on the bridge. Because of that, IMO black is the only thing that really works. I'm neurotic like that though - I really do like the chrome otherwise.


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## lewis (Nov 15, 2017)

Ivars V said:


> But if you go emg route, you don't need to shield the guitar.



I always do regardless in case I do later pickup swaps its already done. Plus its just part of things I like to do for maintenance. 



exo said:


> I just wanna know if you've figured out re-stringing, and if that bridge will actually take an appropriate gauge string for drop G#.....



Haha no not yet. Ive literally had no reason to take the strings off yet as they are sounding and even recording really well tbh. Im using the Kemper pitch shifter and going down 5 steps to G# from C# and even that sounds good recorded. I will order some of my usual baritone strings soon and let you know.



bostjan said:


> So glad to see this made it into your hands. The mods should look great.
> 
> I'm also a little concerned about that headpiece - it looks like a pretty bad fit, overall, but everything else on the guitar looks great.
> 
> ...



Thanks dude! 
Yeah me too regards to the headpiece. Which is why Ive ordered a new chrome one to re align but also to match the mods and its a floyd type lockernut so will give better stability over the zero fret than the stock one.
The strings wrap around a spindle in each saddle but at the moment thats all I can tell haha.
It wont be until I do the restring within the next week or two that I will find out. 


xzacx said:


> I like the idea of the chrome, and think it goes great with the finish, but I also think it clashes with the brass pieces on the bridge. Because of that, IMO black is the only thing that really works. I'm neurotic like that though - I really do like the chrome otherwise.



I know exactly what you mean. I already tried to find the same bridge in chrome but it doesnt exist. Im just going to ignore the little bits of gold as best I can.
If the bridge does come to bits I may even be able to just spray the gold parts black.

The Chrome popping against that finish was the main reason I opted for that route.

Also, @Dcm81 thanks again for the tip!.
I made this up earlier to use to tune each string rather than the provided z key and I 100% prefer it









Its a 4mm hex screwdriver bit, forced inside a guitar knob with the locking grub screw really tight for even extra stability!. I hammered it all inside the knob so its really jammed in there. Good!.
That aint going anywhere.


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## lewis (Nov 15, 2017)

another Kemper tone demo

This time its pitch shifted inside the kemper down - 5 to G#
https://soundcloud.com/eridium/grote-kemper-tone-demo-pitch-shift

Been getting things ready to start demo'ing for my bands latest material so thought I would do this whilst I had the session template open.

The snappy sizzle this guitar gives out, presumably because it a bolt on, is unreal!.
Ive recorded alot of guitars and from stock, this one gets the closest to the tones I like right out the box.

EDIT:
This one does have post EQ and some extra sizzle/enhancement from a VST I like.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

to correct my previous post /\

The hex bit is 5mm NOT 4mm. Because I ordered a pack of 4 of them I got confused haha.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

ElRay said:


> How are the strings attached at the bridge? I would have expected the ball end at the bridge and some kind of a string-lock at the headpiece.





bostjan said:


> So glad to see this made it into your hands. The mods should look great.
> 
> I'm also a little concerned about that headpiece - it looks like a pretty bad fit, overall, but everything else on the guitar looks great.
> 
> ...



Found these pictures -


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## exo (Nov 16, 2017)

So it's basically just a re-engineered standard tuning mechanism....that thought never actually crossed my mind, looking at the bridge on the guitar. Cool.


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## marcwormjim (Nov 16, 2017)

exo said:


> So it's basically just a re-engineered standard tuning mechanism.


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## bostjan (Nov 16, 2017)

Looks neat for standard tuning, but with a thicker string, it might pose a few challenges. Overall, I like this design, though.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Looks neat for standard tuning, but with a thicker string, it might pose a few challenges. Overall, I like this design, though.


I might have to unwind the outer layer of string on the thicker strings to get them to wrap around there properly. But then I was having to do that anyway because I never drilled out my tuners on my guitars so no big deal.


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## bostjan (Nov 16, 2017)

Have you done that procedure before from the ball end? I have once or twice, a while ago, and I remember those strings not lasting, even coming unwound right up the area where I pick, so I had to do some modifications. I've done the same from the nut-end (non-ball-end) without trouble, though, plenty of times.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Have you done that *procedure before from the ball end*? I have once or twice, a while ago, and I remember those strings not lasting, even coming unwound right up the area where I pick, so I had to do some modifications. I've done the same from the nut-end (non-ball-end) without trouble, though, plenty of times.




Would it need to be at the ball end?. Im talking about the bridge end dude. If the thicker string is too thick to wrap around the spindle part of the saddle, I will just unwind a bit.

Dont forget ball end is held at the head piece so have no reason to unwind there.

EDIT: Unless you meant the headpiece end and dont think a thicker string would fit there either?.

Good point haha. Although it seems like it would. I only go as thick as 72 on bottom for G# on 25.5 scale. I prefer my strings with some slackness to them. I play faster.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

Did a real quick video playthrough. The light in my lounge is shit currently (Im waiting for new 12watt LED cool white bulbs to arrive)
so it looks grainy.

Still -


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## bostjan (Nov 16, 2017)

Yeah, sorry, that was really unclear on my part.

I dig that tone, although I couldn't see myself wearing it, so to speak. It's got a nice mid-range grunt but still sounds plenty clear enough.


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, sorry, that was really unclear on my part.
> 
> I dig that tone, although I couldn't see myself wearing it, so to speak. It's got a nice mid-range grunt but still sounds plenty clear enough.


Thank you 

Im fairly new to dialling in proper mix sounding tones. Its all a learning curve.
Glad you dig it. Im the kind of guy that likes massive bass tones making up most of the overall guitar tone. And there is no bass yet on this demo.


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## bostjan (Nov 16, 2017)

lewis said:


> Im the kind of guy that likes massive bass tones making up most of the overall guitar tone.



Yeah, it's a balancing act. Throaty tones like this can sound great with a certain oomfy-fat bass tone, but sometimes these tones mate oddly with snappier bass tones. It seems to almost depend more on the bass player's tone than the guitar player's tone, to me, though. Perfect way to ruin a mix, I learned a few years ago, is to dial in the perfect tone, then have your bass player completely revamp his rig right before you go into the studio. 

So, since you seem to be an 8-string guy, are you going to get an eight string one of these now?


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## lewis (Nov 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, it's a balancing act. Throaty tones like this can sound great with a certain oomfy-fat bass tone, but sometimes these tones mate oddly with snappier bass tones. It seems to almost depend more on the bass player's tone than the guitar player's tone, to me, though. Perfect way to ruin a mix, I learned a few years ago, is to dial in the perfect tone, then have your bass player completely revamp his rig right before you go into the studio.
> 
> So, since you seem to be an 8-string guy, are you going to get an eight string one of these now?


haha yeah agreed.
Sometimes I think having the bass done first and dialling in a great tone that works with the bass, might be easier haha.

Well I do love my 8 string but I was using this same tuning on that (G#) with extra high strings.

Really I dont mind if the guitar is tuned to what I need. Im always a low to high player though. I.e regardless of how many strings the guitar has, the lowest always has to be my G#

Im more shreddy these days so a fast 6 string downtuned suits me alot. I will put up a more thorough clean/rhythm/lead video showcasing the guitars stock sound soon.

EDIT: Plus he doesnt sell these as 8s...ive already checked haha


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## ElRay (Nov 18, 2017)

lewis said:


> Found these pictures -
> ...


Thanks. The main reason I was asking was because I wanted to buy one or two, and just use the saddle & tuner pieces show here to make a headless, multi-scaled guitar.

So the photos show that they do come apart as cleanly as they looked like they would.


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## lewis (Nov 24, 2017)

UPDATE:
New locking headpiece arrived and I fitted it.
Had to be real careful and this is the best I could do with re aligning it. Now the truss rod is defo adjustable so at least thats better. I used Matchstick wood to help screws grip tighter etc.

Its way more practical too. 1st fret bends are so much more stable. You dont feel the string "tweak" as it moves around anymore.
Looks ace too. Just the EMGs now after Xmas.


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 24, 2017)

The other bonus about the locking headpiece is: if the bridge ends up sucking, or gas for a chrome upgrade gets the best of you; you can now use ABM or Hipshot etc. headless bridges with the ball end at the tuner. Those locks should be stable enough to hold the strings without the ball ends being up there.


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## lewis (Nov 24, 2017)

DudeManBrother said:


> The other bonus about the locking headpiece is: if the bridge ends up sucking, or gas for a chrome upgrade gets the best of you; you can now use ABM or Hipshot etc. headless bridges with the ball end at the tuner. Those locks should be stable enough to hold the strings without the ball ends being up there.


100% already thought about that.
Hipshot sadly are too busy right now to offer a headless bridge for me with mounting holes drilled to this bridges specific measurements. I.e to make theirs a direct replacement for this one.
So sadly thats off the agenda.
I would be left with holes that I do not want. (im assuming that actually but either way not entirely keen on drilling new holes)

EDIT: I wonder if ABM saddles would work as direct swaps


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 24, 2017)

It’s hard to say if they’re a direct swap as far as the holes line up, but you can buy a small drill bit for about a quid, and it’s as easy as lining up the bridge(s) so the scale length is correct. Just make small pilot holes for the included screws with the new bridge. It’ll cover up all the original holes for sure.


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## lewis (Nov 29, 2017)

The bridge is really cheap and so awkward to adjust. Ive got 2 saddles buzzing because they are not tight enough but the tiny tiny little hex bolts that are supposed to hold them tight to the bridge plate, just seem to turn and turn.
In all, way too fiddly and very poor after a few weeks of use.

With the locking headpiece on, Im going to replace it with single chrome ABM saddles and drill new holes I think.
This design seemed odd in the pictures and the initial tuning stability in the honeymoon period seems over.
The colour match thing will be a nice added bonus too.


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## bostjan (Nov 29, 2017)

So, I don't want to sound too pessimistic, nor too optimistic, but the true test, in my mind, is how the entire thing will hold up through humidity changes and such. Probably by late may or early June, you'll know if this is a forever guitar or not. I think that for the price, expecting to maybe have to swap the headpiece, bridge, and potentially the pickups, is not too bad. I still think the finish and the woodwork looks fantastic, and if the bones are good, there's nothing wrong with doing a little customization. If this builder is really a craftsman, I would contact him with the issues you've had with the head and the bridge, as he'd want to which parts need the most attention.


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## lewis (Nov 29, 2017)

bostjan said:


> So, I don't want to sound too pessimistic, nor too optimistic, but the true test, in my mind, is how the entire thing will hold up through humidity changes and such. Probably by late may or early June, you'll know if this is a forever guitar or not. I think that for the price, expecting to maybe have to swap the headpiece, bridge, and potentially the pickups, is not too bad. I still think the finish and the woodwork looks fantastic, and if the bones are good, there's nothing wrong with doing a little customization. If this builder is really a craftsman, I would contact him with the issues you've had with the head and the bridge, as he'd want to which parts need the most attention.


yeah it will be interesting to see what happens with temp changes for sure.

Thats a good shout actually about speaking to him.


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## lewis (Nov 29, 2017)

I will add too, that Im still glad I did this experiment to see if headless guitars are for me.

I still really dig the guitar shape and its playability (real test will be when my new strings arrive for its first Drop G# restring)
But one thing Im starting to realise is, I miss the simplicity of the conventional guitar with locking tuners and saddles (that has a headstock haha)

Maybe if this guitar has shipped with a better option for the bridge etc I may have thought differently (the Hipshot Vader style would probably be excellent on this), but I would say Im leaning towards long term, going back to normal fan fret guitars and just keeping this as a fun/travel guitar.


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## Chokey Chicken (Nov 29, 2017)

Yeah, a better bridge might fix your issues with "simplicity." Vaders, as an example, are no more or less simple than changing strings on a locking nut hard-tail guitar. 

Adjusting action/intonation and tuning is no different than on a headed guitar. Restringing is also dead simple, which I'm still curious how that works on this bridge. 

Still, headed guitars just look better imo. Even though I love my vader, it still has boobs on the bottom and the chopped off head makes it look toyish. lol


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## lewis (Dec 1, 2017)

UPDATE:

Just done my first restring. The set was the Ernie ball baritone 72-13 6 string set.
Tuned it to Drop G#
Basically how the bridge works for restrings is you stab the string down in a hole in each spindle exactly like how you would when you restring a bass, then you just wind it up until its wrapped around a few times.

Getting a locking headpiece for this a must!!!!!. Im so glad I did. Its made restring it a breeze tbh.
Will do some tone stuff soon \m/

Also with thicker strings on, its made adjusting the action easier somehow. The thicker string seems to hold the bridge in place better too. It buzzes less and feels more secure.

I did have to unwind the outer string layers on the first 2 strings (72 and 54 I believe) as they were too thick to stick in. I also had to unwind a little on the 72 at the headpiece end for it to fit in the nut slot. Locking headpiece made doing this not a problem.

Also............ It seems that cleaning the fretboard takes black off?.
So Im basically assuming this is rosewood and they ebonized it for the $25 then claimed it was "ebony"?
No other reason why Ebony would strip its black right?. Its still dark dark but It did leave black on my rag.
Haha.


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## bostjan (Dec 1, 2017)

If it's still black underneath, then it might be fine. Did you use any oil or anything to clean, or is it just wiping off dry? It might just be some sort of gunk, but it's equally possible that dye was used. Ultimately, though, if the material holds up, looks good, and sounds good, it shouldn't matter what it is unless you need to tell someone in customs what it is, which is why I think there might be a higher possibility it's old stock rosewood dyed black to get through customs.


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## diagrammatiks (Dec 1, 2017)

lots of ebony is dyed to make it uniformly black. 99 percent of ebony has some streaking and color differential.

I'm pretty sure the fretboard on my skervesen is color treated. I've never seen an ebony fretboard that uniformly black.


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## bostjan (Dec 1, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> lots of ebony is dyed to make it uniformly black. 99 percent of ebony has some streaking and color differential.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the fretboard on my skervesen is color treated. I've never seen an ebony fretboard that uniformly black.



Shame, too, since figured ebony looks so cool.


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## lewis (Dec 1, 2017)

I genuinely didnt know that about Ebony.
I used Dunlop Lemon Oil

I know what my finger gunk looks like. This was legit "black" on the rag. So yeah Im guessing dye. But if its still ebony thats been dyed then yeah who cares.

I will only care if its rosewood and genuinely starts going light brown after time as I HATE that look on guitars personally. Otherwise yeah Im not that bothered what the board is made from. I guess though if you pay extra for Ebony, you expect it to actually be Ebony.... Hopefully it is haha.


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## bostjan (Dec 1, 2017)

I'm not saying finger gunk. Every guitar I've bought from any of the developing economies or China has had black gunk on it the first time I cleaned the fretboard. I think it's some sort of grease they use to make the frets or to slide the frets into their slots or something. It's not an ebony thing in my case, because I never bought any ebony fretboard guitars of this nature. After the first cleaning, I sometimes see it a little bit on the second cleaning, but then once it's gone it's gone.


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## lewis (Dec 1, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I'm not saying finger gunk. Every guitar I've bought from any of the developing economies or China has had black gunk on it the first time I cleaned the fretboard. I think it's some sort of grease they use to make the frets or to slide the frets into their slots or something. It's not an ebony thing in my case, because I never bought any ebony fretboard guitars of this nature. After the first cleaning, I sometimes see it a little bit on the second cleaning, but then once it's gone it's gone.


Ah i see what you mean!.

Ah ok well lets hope its just that then.
I will update my findings on the next couple of restrings in the future.

Looking forward to my daughter being in bed so I can get the Kemper setup and try this out in my normal tuning!


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## lewis (Dec 5, 2017)

Had my first band practice with this last night.
Signal chain:

Headless>Line 6 g10 wireless>Kemper>Randall T2 for power>4x12(V30+k100 x pattern)

God it sounds good through my setup. Snappy and snarly.
Amazing tones and thats with the stock pickups. Will get some footage and pics Thursday


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## Isurez (Dec 5, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> lots of ebony is dyed to make it uniformly black. 99 percent of ebony has some streaking and color differential.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the fretboard on my skervesen is color treated. I've never seen an ebony fretboard that uniformly black.


We never did that!


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## lewis (Dec 5, 2017)

Isurez said:


> We never did that!


yeah well you guys are the titts! haha.

If I could afford it, I would throw my $$$$ your way lol


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## marcwormjim (Dec 6, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah well you guys are the titts! haha.
> 
> If I could afford it, I would throw my $$$$ your way lol so I’ll see what my Chinese counterfeiter can do



Fixed.


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## Hollowway (Dec 6, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah well you guys are the titts! haha.
> 
> I can afford it, because I have a Kemper, but I'll be polite and pretend I'm not buying one because of finances lol



Also fixed.

(Not to be a dick, because we all make choices with our money. But they are choices.)


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## diagrammatiks (Dec 6, 2017)

Isurez said:


> We never did that!



Then I have seen an ebony fretboard that black

Kiesel definitely color treats tho.


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## lewis (Dec 6, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> Also fixed.
> 
> (*Not to be a dick*, because we all make choices with our money. But they are choices.)



sigh...

Already explained this before.
Its the first and last time ive ever been able to buy something worth more than £600 (and even this £600 was thanks to loads of trade ins for money off) (I also dont drive so have never had Car expenses etc)

most of the money I had for the kemper (about £950) was obtained/saved through still living with family with barely any outgoings before I even met my partner, and selling lots of gear and was also before my first daughter arrived obv.
Since then I have become the main provider in the household with my partner and have another child due Jan 2nd.

So sick of this sort of thing being aimed at me.
In 10 years of being a guitarist, the kemper is the first and only time I have ever and will ever be able to spend money like this. Period.

Dont you think If I could afford to, I would be buying Kiesels or high end custom guitars over importing some cheap no name model from China ffs?
My latest guitar was the Harley Benton fan fret 6 string. Cost me £200 incl shipping and was B stock.


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## Edika (Dec 6, 2017)

Just came to say that when I bought my BC Rich JrV Deluxe that had an ebony fretboard it was dyed black(er) as it would leave black dye on my fingers for a while and on the first few restrings on the rag when I would clean it with lemon oil. It became slightly lighter all over the fretboard but was still quite quite dark. Just not as super dark, glossy and shiny as I first bought it. So it might just be that, ebony that wasn't uniformly black and they dyed it to give it that extra blackness.


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## bostjan (Dec 6, 2017)

I think there are a few of us on this board in the same boat. Kids and family and whatnot is expensive. To put into perspective, I drive a car that cost about £370, I mostly eat canned beans and frozen off-brand vegetables, and my kids don't eat expensive food, either, but overall, our groceries cost £105/week, significantly less than average in our area, but still, school costs, car insurance, taxes, etc., add up to about 80-90% of my household income (as I am the only one in the house with a job). The other 10-20% goes into the bank for a rainy day fund, which gets drained faster than I can put money into it.

My last gear purchases were used Rondo instruments, which I could hardly afford. Yet, buying domestically available used stuff from people on the board was significantly more secure than purchasing from a shady overseas builder. You almost didn't get your guitar at all, thanks to ParcelForce (who tried to use the fact that this was an international shipment as an excuse), and now that you have it, you've needed to perform a couple repairs already just to keep it working. Anyway, if I had the financial security to do so, I would have absolutely hired a luthier to build me a guitar made-to-order to meet the goals of my project. Instead, I took the cheap route and bought budget guitars and had them modified to spec. I was even morally conflicted in doing so, since I was purchasing a guitar that was a generic design and a bass that was an obvious homage to Dingwall, even if the body style and features were entirely different.

So, I hear your struggle, and I think I can say I understand. I think that different folks draw the line in the proverbial sand and say this is okay and this is not okay. I'm personally honestly relieved that your guitar eventually made it into your hands with only a handful of surmountable issues. @Hollowway is a great guy, who is really trying to do some original things. I think that on a visceral level, people like that tend to value originality and novelty a lot more than what other people would consider financial necessities to fit things into budget and still get basic groundwork done. That's why, as a guy who is more broke than probably 99%+ of the forum, but also someone who greatly values intellectual originality, I think I can see both sides of this, and I don't see a way around the conflict between these sets of values, but it still pains me to see people fighting over this.

At any level, though, I think a statement to the effect of:



lewis said:


> If I could afford it, I would throw my $$$$ your way lol



Has the potential to come off a number of ways. I get that you're asserting your appreciation for the work of the builder, but on the other hand, there are a lot of nuances of the statement that reflect negatively. On a basic level, you are saying you wish you could support this company, but their prices are too high for you. Imagine someone said that to you about something you worked on. Maybe you release an album, and someone comes up to you at a show and asks you to sign the album, but it's a photocopy of your cover. Then the person tell you that they would love to support your band, but $9.99 was just too much to spend on an album, so they bought a CD-R and had their friend print the cover off of google images. Now imagine that this person is one of hundred of people doing the same thing, and not at all ashamed about doing so, so your band, although very popular, isn't making money. How would that make you feel?

Nothing personal against you, I just feel it's worth pointing out that the above is a pretty good example of a "trigger" statement.


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## diagrammatiks (Dec 6, 2017)

don't be like me. i've been failing to save up for an axe or a kemper for years now.


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## Overtone (Dec 7, 2017)

sgrote


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## lewis (Dec 7, 2017)

This thing sounds amazing through my setup....


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## Wolfhorsky (Dec 7, 2017)

Oh the drama. Come on guys, relax and stop


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## ElRay (Dec 7, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> (Not to be a dick, because we all make choices with our money. But they are choices.)


#MAGA


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