# Tried a Trapezoid Neck Profile - Did not like it



## Deadseen (Sep 5, 2012)

I tried a Rick Toone orchid bass this weekend. And I really didn't like the neck. For me it was just to deep (I play with my thumb around the neck). 
It felt hard to reach the higher notes on the 4th string. With a 6-string or more it with be really hard _(impossible)_ to reach the lower strings. 

The bass was also weird in that way that it felt good when playing in classical position but hurt the ribs like hell if you had it on the right left leg.
I think the one I played was a prototype, because it didn't have a truss rod , so the owner had some really thin strings on that apparently rick shipped them with.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 5, 2012)

If you play with your thumb around the neck wouldn't that be precisely why you didn't like it?

I thought designs like that and the Strandberg Endurneck were after those who play in "classical pinch" position...?


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## xwmucradiox (Sep 5, 2012)

The point of that design is to encourage correct playing posture and make good technique easier to achieve. If you aren't going to use an ergonomic instrument in a way that takes advantage of the ergonomic design then of course it will be uncomfortable.


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## Trespass (Sep 5, 2012)

If ergonomics and the health of your hands/wrists/joints is the motivation behind Toone and Strandberg, why would he create something catering towards those that don't have ergonomic technique already? They are trying to enhance ergonomic choices, not replace them.

It conflicts with the vision man. No wonder you didn't like it.


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## ElRay (Sep 5, 2012)

The original TNP was a 4-string Bass neck made as a 1" aluminum square tube wrapped in wood and was intended to be comfortable both in Classical position and thumb-wrap.

The next evolution was to go thinner with a more traditional neck construction (all wood with a truss rod), so it could be played if the neck was wider. At that point it became more of a Classical position only neck.

Also, Rick's design was never officially to add functionality. If it was, then he could not have received a design patent, he would have had to file for a utility patent. So, the only thing his patent protects is the shape, much like a Coke bottle.

It will be interesting to see if Ola goes the design or the utility patent route.

Ray


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 5, 2012)

EDIT: I can't read.


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## AlexRuger (Sep 5, 2012)

Where may I ask did you play it? I've been meaning to check out a trapezoidal neck for ages.


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## Rook (Sep 6, 2012)

I too am intrigued by it, and am hoping to get very much acquainted with it soon. We'll see.


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## skeels (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm curious.

I'm a thumb-over-the-neck kind of guy. But not exclusively.

Any more thumb guys chime in on this?


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## axxessdenied (Sep 6, 2012)

I used to use the thumb-over the neck style. But, I forced myself while doing practice to just keep my thumb in the "correct" position. Glad I spend the time doing that, because it made my transition to an 8-string much easier since I feel really comfortable now with my thumb on the back of the neck instead of over the top and I have NO issues reaching any position on the neck.


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## Malkav (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm just gonna point out for a moment that there are 3 different trapezoidal profiles - perhaps that one just isn't the one that works for you? 

As much as I hate to admit it, it would seem that the down profile like the IPNP used on Tosin's .Strandberg* is probably the right choice for my left handed - which bummed me out cause I really loved the concept behind the Endurneck


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 6, 2012)

The Endurneck looks sweet and I think my thumb kind of naturally travels that way so if I were to have the $ for an ergo neck that would be the way to go for me. At the same time, I thought to myself the other day... If my hand naturally does that why should I spend extra $ on my neck profile?


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## Deadseen (Sep 6, 2012)

xwmucradiox said:


> The point of that design is to encourage correct playing posture and make good technique easier to achieve. If you aren't going to use an ergonomic instrument in a way that takes advantage of the ergonomic design then of course it will be uncomfortable.



I don't know if I would call the orchid ergonomic. I've tried other instruments that are ergonomic and they all felt really good.



AlexSmith said:


> Where may I ask did you play it? I've been meaning to check out a trapezoidal neck for ages.



At JAM in Stockholm. It's one of the largest music-stores in the city. 



axxessdenied said:


> I used to use the thumb-over the neck style. But, I forced myself while doing practice to just keep my thumb in the "correct" position. Glad I spend the time doing that, because it made my transition to an 8-string much easier since I feel really comfortable now with my thumb on the back of the neck instead of over the top and I have NO issues reaching any position on the neck.



I have no problem playing on my Schecter omen 8 even with wrap-around- 





ElRay said:


> Also, Rick's design was never officially to add functionality. If it was, then he could not have received a design patent, he would have had to file for a utility patent. So, the only thing his patent protects is the shape, much like a Coke bottle.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Ola goes the design or the utility patent route.
> 
> Ray



The reason why I tried it was because they had an old guitar with the same neckprofile. Isana Guitars- Made in germany. Probably from the 50-60's.


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## Fred the Shred (Sep 6, 2012)

Ohai, we read a thread containing a person's opinion, thus the approach is invalid or automatically directed at a certain playing position. Easy, guys! 

First off, and this is quite well documented, you have varying thicknesses and plane angles available according to what the player desires. I have a trap neck on my Strandberg and it's very comfy, designed to have depth but not overwhelmingly so while supporting my thumb in both thumb over or behind the neck positions, and I have tiny hands. For example, the neck on Sketch is substantially deeper than mine, and wasn't as comfortable for me, but then again I wasn't the one commissioning that guitar.

The IPNP is just an extreme variation of the design, extending the back plane as far as possible at the expense of all but extinguishing the lower plane. This DOES place a substantial emphasis on classical position playing, and is quite good for that, but since I shift between both positions very often, it doesn't feel right to me. As for the Endurneck, it's awesome!


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## skeels (Sep 6, 2012)

axxessdenied said:


> I used to use the thumb-over the neck style. But, I forced myself while doing practice to just keep my thumb in the "correct" position. Glad I spend the time doing that, because it made my transition to an 8-string much easier since I feel really comfortable now with my thumb on the back of the neck instead of over the top and I have NO issues reaching any position on the neck.



See, I started on classical with proper positioning and then after some years, discovered I had to learn to play standing up.

Now I find I switch my "grip" and position often while I play depending on what the music dictates.

Ironically , I didn't buy a 2228 because I found it difficult to Fret notes with my thumb.


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## axxessdenied (Sep 6, 2012)

I have no problem playing with my thumb over the neck even on an 8. But, I find your range is limited when you grip the neck that way. I find myself switching between the two depending on position and comfort. But, on the eight I definitely find myself more in the classical position.


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## Ishan (Sep 7, 2012)

@Fred the Shred> could you give some detail about the Endurneck? On paper it's the thing I've been waiting for but I'm not so sure how it translates in real life.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)

The weird thing about it is... I've NEVER paid any attention to the way I hold a guitar with respect to thumb placement until I came to SSO and started seeing folks argue over which way was proper. All the guitar players I looked up to when I started playing seriously just happened to play with a classical grip so I just emulated what I saw and never thought twice about it. 

Even when I saw ppl playing with the thumb over the neck I never thought much of it until I let someone play my 7 and he complained he couldn't get his thumb around the neck and my first thought was, "Why do you have to?" 

After that I tried that grip and realized that I didn't feel I could play things as fluidly as I did in classical position and that playing certain passages above a certain speed was--for me--impossible. 

Do they make ergo guitars aimed at guys who do the thumb-over-the-top, grip?


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## XEN (Sep 7, 2012)

My first guitar teacher, only guitar teacher actually, told me to put my hand in the classical position and then stretch my fingers out as far as I could to get the widest interval possible between the note I fretted with my index and the one fretted with my pinky. Then he told me to hold that strech and slowly bring my thumb into the "chicken choking" position. Having smallish hands I obviously couldn't hold the stretch or fret the same interval. That one lesson had me playing electrics in a semi-classical position right from the start.

I was going to say that there's no right or wrong way to play, but I'll just stick with 'there are no rules.' These optional profiles either suit your play style or they don't. The EndurNeck is the most exciting one though because of the way it leads the hand into a good playing position all the way up the neck.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)

What's chicken choking position? The thumb-over-the-neck one?


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## XEN (Sep 7, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> What's chicken choking position? The thumb-over-the-neck one?


That's the one where you don't have anyone but yourself to grip it... I mean yeah, that's what I meant.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)




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## Rook (Sep 7, 2012)

It was only since my interest peaked in the TNP and IPNP that I plaid the slightest attention to where my thumb goes, apparently I play with a classical pinch style that basically follows the middle laminate on my Mayo's neck all the way up haha.

Funny really. I also tried having my thumb over the top and I could do it but it felt totally wrong, it was equivalent to trying to write while someone held onto the end though, definitely restricted. Then again I hold a pen completely wrong...


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)




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## Fred the Shred (Sep 7, 2012)

Ishan said:


> @Fred the Shred> could you give some detail about the Endurneck? On paper it's the thing I've been waiting for but I'm not so sure how it translates in real life.



I have a styrofoam CNC cut one, but lighting was dreadful when I photographed it and it made it hard to accompany the curves. I'll try it again tomorrow, as the weather is supposed to be quite sunny.


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## Rook (Sep 7, 2012)

Wow didn't know I was using the lil wayne technique.

aaaaaah yeah


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)

I know right? Dude in that vid can play but he's a fuckin' tool... 

However, being that I'm dreaded and similarly complected to Lil Wayne I might be able to ride that wave to stardom! 

I mean he's on skateboard hiatus now anyway... 



Lil Wayne said:


> It ain't trickin' if you got it



Whatever the hell that means...


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