# Good speakers for downtuned metal?



## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

Alright, so I am learning the hard way what comes with switching to a downtuned 7 string. 

Picked up a brand new Hellraiser C-7 with OFR off ebay for $500. Dropped a blackout in the bridge, emg 607 in the neck. Tuned to GCGCFAD. Found the right string sizes, etc. Sounds fantastic at lower volumes. However, when I crank up my amp...trouble.

Got a modded Peavey Ultra 120. Sounds somewhere between a Recto and a 5150 with the bias mod. 

Running into a 4x12 with V30s, and a 4x12 with G12T75s. Running an eq through the fx loop, basically somewhat scooped with a boost around 1k. I can post pics of the all the settings if needed.

So when I cranked this up, the V30s sounded like they were going to explode, in a bad way. I didn't immediately crank it to full of course, I slowly turned up, and stopped when they started to sound like shit. Unplugged that cab, tried just the G12T75s. They sound like they are doing alright, but still clipping a bit. 

Did I buy the wrong speakers? Am considering G12K100s, but what about 15 inch speakers? I don't really care too much about the tone of the speakers, as I can just use my eq to get the sound I want. The key words for me are punchy, clear, and above all, resilient speakers that can handle any frequencies I through at them. Also, I would prefer 16 ohm loads. Right now with two cabs the load is 8 ohms, but I'm gonna pick up another head soon and run two cabs, each as 16 ohms. 16 ohms, IMO sounds quieter but richer.

Thanks!!


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## groph (Oct 28, 2010)

foul_owl said:


> Alright, so I am learning the hard way what comes with switching to a downtuned 7 string.
> 
> Picked up a brand new Hellraiser C-7 with OFR off ebay for $500. Dropped a blackout in the bridge, emg 607 in the neck. Tuned to GCGCFAD. Found the right string sizes, etc. Sounds fantastic at lower volumes. However, when I crank up my amp...trouble.
> 
> ...



Search around, this has been covered many times before.

The general consensus is that K-100's KILL for low tuned stuff and metal in general. I guess the high wattage speakers just inherently do that stuff better. Maybe look around on Eminence's site.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 28, 2010)

What are your settings? Are you boosting? If you haven't already, try rolling the bass knob all the way off, then slowly turn it back up while palm-muting the low notes- all this at band volume. Stop increasing the bass when you *just* start to get that 'thump'. If your speakers are 'farting' out at this point, then yeah... I guess you're looking at needing new speakers.

I can vouch for G12K-100's and their older counterparts the G12K-85's. You may be able to find older Peavey and Ampeg cabs that have them, and they are literally the same speaker as the K-100's. They go for cheap, too. I got my cab for $200.

Here's a video to give you an idea of some of the low end these speakers are capable of handling. I'm playing in Drop G with an RG7321 I used to have. Oh, and my playing is terrible.


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## xtrustisyoursx (Oct 28, 2010)

There are plenty of people who tune low with V30s. Though it might not be optimal, loads of people do it. I'd do as above suggested and try using less bass. That low, you're not going to want to have that much low end anyway if you want any clarity at all.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 28, 2010)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> There are plenty of people who tune low with V30s. Though it might not be optimal, loads of people do it. I'd do as above suggested and try using less bass. That low, you're not going to want to have that much low end anyway if you want any clarity at all.





If you look at my settings in the video, my bass is at around 9 o'clock and my mids were stupid high. Yeah, I'm playing a Dual Rectifier Roadster, but the point remains that mids are more important than bass for the drop z tunings.

EDIT: Oh, and I was boosting it with a tube screamer too.


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## xCaptainx (Oct 28, 2010)

Way too many variables in your rig man. I LOVE V30 speakers, they sound great in any tuning and I've heard/toured with many a band with many a tuning who feel likewise. I'd say it has more to do with the amp and/or settings you are using.


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## teqnick (Oct 28, 2010)

I've had great luck with eminences. Right now i have a tonker/manowar in my 2x12 and it handles low tunings great. Tight ass lows, not too piercing highs, and the mids are prominent, but not excessively honky


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 28, 2010)

OP, I just read in another thread that you had global presence and resonance knobs added to your Ultra Plus. In addition to my previous advice, I'd also advise you to be very careful with the resonance knob- especially at high volumes.


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## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

JPhoenix19 said:


> try rolling the bass knob all the way off, then slowly turn it back up while palm-muting the low notes- all this at band volume. Stop increasing the bass when you *just* start to get that 'thump'. If your speakers are 'farting' out at this point, then yeah... I guess you're looking at needing new speakers.


Thanks! Will try this first.

As for my settings, I will post a pic of my eq.


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## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> There are plenty of people who tune low with V30s. Though it might not be optimal, loads of people do it. I'd do as above suggested and try using less bass. That low, you're not going to want to have that much low end anyway if you want any clarity at all.



Hmm ok, knowing that many people do this already with V30s without issues makes me feel better about it.

I bought this cab used, so I don't know how the previous owner treated the speakers. They sounded great at the store with my amp, but I didn't have my 7 string then.

Will try less bass.


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## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

xCaptainx said:


> Way too many variables in your rig man. I LOVE V30 speakers, they sound great in any tuning and I've heard/toured with many a band with many a tuning who feel likewise. I'd say it has more to do with the amp and/or settings you are using.



Very true, too many vars in the equation, I need to change things one at a time. But i did try the same rig with my damien in CGCFAD and it works fine. Swapping in just the Hellraiser and the speakers are clipping. (no adjusting settings)


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## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

teqnick said:


> I've had great luck with eminences. Right now i have a tonker/manowar in my 2x12 and it handles low tunings great. Tight ass lows, not too piercing highs, and the mids are prominent, but not excessively honky



Hmmm interesting. I might have to give those a try. Those or the K100s or 85s if I can find em used. 

Yeah I don't like the honkey mids. 

Any thoughts on using 15s?


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## foul_owl (Oct 28, 2010)

JPhoenix19 said:


> OP, I just read in another thread that you had global presence and resonance knobs added to your Ultra Plus. In addition to my previous advice, I'd also advise you to be very careful with the resonance knob- especially at high volumes.



Added em myself in fact.  Hmm ok right now the Res is cranked all the way. I have been using it that way for about a year now, first with G12T75s, then with a pair of V30s + a pair of H30s, been working fine with my damien w/ emg 81 in CGCFAD.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 28, 2010)

foul_owl said:


> Very true, too many vars in the equation, I need to change things one at a time. But i did try the same rig with my damien in CGCFAD and it works fine. Swapping in just the Hellraiser and the speakers are clipping. (no adjusting settings)



This tells me that perhaps the Hellraiser is running hotter pick-ups, and perhaps has a darker tone with the wood selection (I'm not so familiar with Schecters). If that's the case, then it really does seem it's just that you need to readjust your settings for the Hellraiser. 

When I traded my RG7321 (with passives) and got my FM-408 (with actives), I literally had to start over with my settings.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 28, 2010)

foul_owl said:


> Hmm ok right now the Res is cranked all the way.





if your res knob responds like the ones I've seen on JSX and 5150/6505 amps I've played, then I'm surprised your rig didn't explode and divide by zero! 

Definitely show us that pic of your EQ settings if you can, and maybe keep your EQ the same and try what I mentioned earlier except with the res knob.


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## AlexWadeWC (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm gonna go ahead and say speakers have nothing to do with this and it's probably 100% your EQing.

You can't turn the bass and resonance knobs all the way to the right until they snap off and tune to drop Q and not expect your speakers to fart out or "clip".

Using 15 inch speakers for guitar is an awful idea, I had a Vader cab with 2 15's in it and it was the worst thing ever. Muddy and undefined, it was just all scooped low end.

I recently tried K100's in my Mesa Cab and I didn't like them. Being 100 watts a piece i had to turn up WAY too loud to get enough juice flowing in them to get them sounding half way decent.

V30's are the way to go for down tuned metal in my opinion.

My advice is to EQ your amp more reasonably. If you have the bass maxed on your amp, the resonance maxed, and you're boosting lows with your external EQ, well then there is your problem.

You may have already damaged your cabs by pumping that much low end through the speakers. You might have blown the speakers and that "clipping" sound could be your speakers being blown. Would have to hear it to tell.

The best guitar tones are rich in mids with JUST enough low end to add thickness. Let the kick drum and bass guitar take care of the low end.


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi Mr. Owl - High output speakers from my own experience give You more headroom and in my opinion create more articulation for those low notes. Vintage 30 60w speakers are a favourite. G12 K-100's I have heard are good. Eminence Legend V128's should be looked in to aswell.

Good luck!


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 29, 2010)

Alex summed it up pretty well. It's also worth mentioning that we don't hear the same frequencies at different volumes, and that there's a massive drop in terms of mids sensitivity and an increase of how we perceive both bass and treble as we increase the volume. As such, you MUST tweak your sound accordingly, as it will be extremely bassy and shrill at gig levels if you take an EQ you set at a far lower volume.


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## foul_owl (Oct 29, 2010)

AlexWadeWC said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and say speakers have nothing to do with this and it's probably 100% your EQing.
> 
> You can't turn the bass and resonance knobs all the way to the right until they snap off and tune to drop Q and not expect your speakers to fart out or "clip".
> 
> ...



I gotta be honest, the way I had my eq set before with my damien sounded pretty damn good, BUT I think you are right. It's just too much low end, I need to focus on the mids more. What would be a good low cut and high cut? I think that might give me a good starting place. 

I probably have damaged my speakers already, I tried to warm them up and turn the volume up slowly, and as soon as I heard that ugly "clipping" I stopped playing, I probably played a few chords, about 10 seconds worth or so. 

Could my speakers be damaged without being blown? I know from a visual inspection of the cone it's obvious if they are ripped or not. Also, I know they are bad if the cone isn't moving at all.

Hmmm ok using 15s is a bad idea! I was actually thinking about the vader 15s, now I will have to reconsider.

Thanks to everyone so far!!


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## foul_owl (Oct 29, 2010)

Ok, just want to say, you guys rule. I adjusted the eq, and all the problems went away. The tone isn't really exactly what I want yet, but I will tweak the eq until i get something good. Don't think I blew out the V30s, thank Satan. Tried running the Ultra 120 into the G12T75s, and my SLOClone60 into the V30s, GOD DAMN it sounds good. 

I really want to try the K100s, but gotta save up for awhile until I get enough $$.

Anyone else here do the eq through the loop strategy?


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## Thaeon (Oct 29, 2010)

I always run an EQ in the loop... It changes the EQ post gain stage (Some amps run their EQ after the first gain stage before it gets to the crunch stage which muddies up the sound). It helps to fine tune your EQ curve before it hits the power section and output tubes. I find that EQing my sound this way gives me a lot more clarity and note separation. Depending on the EQ unit you use, this will allow you to dial in the low frequencies you need and shelf off the ones you don't. Also, make sure your preamp gain isn't dimed... That will single handedly kill your tone.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 30, 2010)

foul_owl said:


> Ok, just want to say, you guys rule. I adjusted the eq, and all the problems went away. The tone isn't really exactly what I want yet, but I will tweak the eq until i get something good. Don't think I blew out the V30s, thank Satan. Tried running the Ultra 120 into the G12T75s, and my SLOClone60 into the V30s, GOD DAMN it sounds good.
> 
> I really want to try the K100s, but gotta save up for awhile until I get enough $$.
> 
> Anyone else here do the eq through the loop strategy?





Let me ask: how do you go about tweaking your EQ? Do you listen to your rig from about 5-10 feet away standing right in front of the cab? If not, that's about the best way to know what you sound like.


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## foul_owl (Oct 31, 2010)

Thaeon said:


> I always run an EQ in the loop... It changes the EQ post gain stage (Some amps run their EQ after the first gain stage before it gets to the crunch stage which muddies up the sound). It helps to fine tune your EQ curve before it hits the power section and output tubes. I find that EQing my sound this way gives me a lot more clarity and note separation. Depending on the EQ unit you use, this will allow you to dial in the low frequencies you need and shelf off the ones you don't. Also, make sure your preamp gain isn't dimed... That will single handedly kill your tone.



How do I go about dialing the lows that I want?

Preamp gain is set to around 11 oclock or so. Want to use a compressor for leads, but haven't gotten it dialed in yet.


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## modernmeat (Nov 2, 2010)

as far as any EQing class will teach you... use EQ to remove frequencies before you ever decide to boost frequencies...


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## Gallowsforgrace (Nov 2, 2010)

Eminence Texas Heats. They're 150w and have a massive freq range. Heaps of bottom end if you want it. Nice mid range clarity and a smooth top end. They cost lest than a celestion and sound better IMO


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## Mesheshuggah91 (Nov 16, 2010)

well I'm pretty new to the guitar world so I'm gonna guess when you say V30 you mean celestian vintage 30? because I was gonna suggest that those are some of the best speakers out there. I have a line 6 cab with those in it and it sounds pretty beast. one way I got it to sound better though was by pretty simply just plugging in two speaker cables and using the entire cab's speakers. just figured that out a few weeks ago haha


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