# What are some cliches in guitar dominated music that you can't stand?



## DeathClown (Jan 31, 2013)

Not trying to be negative, just being light hearted about things that annoy you


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## whilstmyguitardjentlyweep (Jan 31, 2013)

bowwwwmmm booowwwwwm booowwwmmmm.... weedle weedle weedle


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## jehu12141987 (Jan 31, 2013)

Never playing the skinny strings and pinch harmonics.


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## NovaReaper (Jan 31, 2013)

i hate riffs


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## AxeHappy (Jan 31, 2013)

Songs that consist of nothing but Breakdowns.


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## Interloper (Jan 31, 2013)

I hate when the guitars are great and then they find some sally man to sing over the top of it rendering it unlistenable. I'm looking at you dream theater...





Yeah I said it, come at me dog!


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying. 

There also seems to be a subset of psychics that know exactly what style of music you play by what your guitar looks like. They also annoy me.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

Interloper said:


> I hate when the guitars are great and then they find some sally man to sing over the top of it rendering it unlistenable. I'm looking at you dream theater...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
LaBrie kinda sounds like he's pushing his range too much some of the time. And oversinging too...


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## Robby the Robot (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying.
> 
> There also seems to be a subset of psychics that know exactly what style of music you play by what your guitar looks like. They also annoy me.



I get the same thing. "C'MON MAN, PLAY IT WITH YOUR TEETH LIKE JIMI!!"


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## canuck brian (Jan 31, 2013)

When people who can't shred say stupid things like "man...you can say so much more with just one note."


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## DLG (Jan 31, 2013)

Interloper said:


> I hate when the guitars are great and then they find some sally man to sing over the top of it rendering it unlistenable. I'm looking at you periphery!


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## Church2224 (Jan 31, 2013)

canuck brian said:


> When people who can't shred say stupid things like "man...you can say so much more with just one note."



Pretty much this 



For me it is Breakdowns and the hated of shredding, like "Speed has no soul." Tell that to Andy James. I love me some shredding


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## julianken (Jan 31, 2013)

Long soloing and or sweep picking for 28 mins straight


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## DLG (Jan 31, 2013)

julianken said:


> sweep picking for 28 mins straight



please post an example of this.


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## DeathClown (Jan 31, 2013)

DLG said:


> please post an example of this.



Mea Culpa - the Human Abstract


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## JEngelking (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying.
> 
> There also seems to be a subset of psychics that know exactly what style of music you play by what your guitar looks like. They also annoy me.



This.
Especially as of late, I've been playing stuff in the vein of Periphery/The Faceless, and on a semi-hollow natural finish Tele style guitar.
Also, a friend of mine once asked, and I quote, if I listened to a lot of nu metal, e.g. Korn and Slipknot, because I played a seven string. 

He's a good dude, but I sorta facepalmed when he asked.


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## edsped (Jan 31, 2013)

Generic deathcore sweep picking.


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## JEngelking (Jan 31, 2013)

^ Yes.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 31, 2013)

chug chuga chuggaa chug SCREAMMMOOOOOOOO!!!


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## CloudAC (Jan 31, 2013)

DLG said:


> Interloper said:
> 
> 
> > I hate when the guitars are great and then they find some sally man to sing over the top of it rendering it unlistenable. I'm looking at you periphery!




 





 only joking.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

canuck brian said:


> When people who can't shred say stupid things like "man...you can say so much more with just one note."


 
...ignoring the fact that BB King was playing one POSITION but many notes because of all that goddamn bending.


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## Krullnar (Jan 31, 2013)

Metalcore, and most modern metal for that matter- all the superfluous notes in the riffs that are there just to make the part seem more impressive and complex. It's pretentious and annoying.


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## JEngelking (Jan 31, 2013)

OH. Dunno if this is necessarily applies to guitar dominated music, but I HATE when people hear a song with harsh vocals and automatically just call it "screamo". I even like some "screamo" music, but no gents, Arsis (just a random example) having screamed vocals doesn't mean it's screamo.


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Jan 31, 2013)

- Sweep picking the standard major/minor shapes
- Blast beats that last 4+ measures
- When people comment on instructional DVDs about how the guitarists playing is nothing but 'technique and noise'
EDIT: Rather, when anyone doesn't understand that there's more than 1 way to play the guitar


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

MrPepperoniNipples said:


> - When people comment on instructional DVDs about how the guitarists playing is nothing but 'technique and noise'


 
Never heard this but I'm sure I'd get a good laugh out of it... 

Why the fuck else would you watch an instructional vid? I feel like you can't really teach someone to be musical per se, you can only give them the tools necessary.

Taking the artistic approach could take forever assuming the profesor and pupil are on different pages.


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 31, 2013)

Church2224 said:


> Tell that to Andy James. I love me some shredding



Or Jason Becker.

Or Steve Vai.

Or Paul Gilbert.

Many, many shredders in fact... except Rusty Cooley. I would rather shatter my jaw on a paving stone than listen to his stuff.


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## Aevolve (Jan 31, 2013)

DeathClown said:


> Mea Culpa - the Human Abstract



HEY I LIKE NOCTURNE. 


On another note, I can't stand this one metalcore riff that's been rewritten over and over for the past 10 years.


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## Addison90 (Jan 31, 2013)

I hate when a metal band uses the occasional chromatic/outside notes, syncopation and odd time signatures, they get labeled as "jazz-metal"

This is jazz metal:


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## Riffer (Jan 31, 2013)

I can't stand the "guitar moves" bands do. Like when they bring the guitar up over their head then back down to correspond with the breakdown start.

Also, when a deathcore band or whatever wants to make the breakdown heavier, they just play that weird dissonant chug chord. Like the normal breakdown will be them chugging on a chord like this (7 string of course)

A-----2-2-2----2-2-2--2-2
E-----2-2-2----2-2-2--2-2
B-----0-0-0----0-0-0--0-0

Then they will keep the same pattern but just move the notes on the E and A strings down a half step like this and the drums will be half time now.

A-----1-1-1----1-1-1--1-1
E-----1-1-1----1-1-1--1-1
B-----0-0-0----0-0-0--0-0

Anyone else know what I'm talking about? It's so retarded.


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## Ocara-Jacob (Jan 31, 2013)

^ Yes, only every deathcore song ever.


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## linchpin (Jan 31, 2013)

When a guitarist adds a solo to a song that DOESN'T require a solo forcing me to edit the solo out from that song making my day even more busier than it normally is... Stop it!


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## ras1988 (Jan 31, 2013)

julianken said:


> Long soloing and or sweep picking for 28 mins straight



I think that joke has been up since the 80's I am surprised everyone didn't stop with that when Steve Morse came out with Tumeni Notes. Yes it is great to understand arpeggios, target notes, and following/playing with changes but some stuff was just milking it. It was probably some great mystery as to how some of these guys got those kinds of runs out in the 80's but now that there has been a massive proliferation of instructional material kids are able to do it pretty readily and abuse it like a tired old magic trick (totally guilty of doing this). Then comes the discussion of musical maturity, natural progression and development on an instrument. It may just take time to have everyone slowly grow through that and discover the proper use in a matured musical setting. 

The other cliche that does get to me is the use of clean tones to mellow out a section and do arpeggiated patters that imply a particular chord progression. In metal, this has been done to death. Wouldn't it be innovative or somewhat refreshing to use tones in different context and create some kind of timberal juxtaposition?  /rant


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## Govan Emmanuel (Jan 31, 2013)

MrPepperoniNipples said:


> - Sweep picking the standard major/minor shapes



i think these guys are the only "sweep-pickers" that i find really interesting





their fretting patterns are a world of its own and represent a whole technical approach to the guitar, not just your typical repetitive basic major/minor/diminished sweep arpeggios


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## GunpointMetal (Jan 31, 2013)

It pisses me off when people act like the only type of music that is "technical" requires constant shredding.


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## ddtonfire (Jan 31, 2013)

Two guitarists that can only harmonize in 3rds.


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## McKay (Jan 31, 2013)

The Djent _formula_ when done with no imagination or unique aspect.


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## mithologian (Jan 31, 2013)

The fact that no one is happy with anything anyone ever plays. 
Too busy, not enough notes. They're too lazy to learn more than just chugs. They're too pretencious and add too many notes....sigh


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## johnny_ace (Jan 31, 2013)

great music shity singer...like you're listening and be like this sounds cool...then singing comes...welp im done...skip,

for me this is Disturbed fucking guy sounds like gorilla with a couch every fucking soneg or five finger death punch my friend couldnt understand why i didnt like them, then i told him because every break down the fucking guy has to talk or say something"poetic", two days later he tells me fuck now i cannot not notice that lol...


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## Experimorph (Jan 31, 2013)

Addison90 said:


> I hate when a metal band uses the occasional chromatic/outside notes, syncopation and odd time signatures, they get labeled as "jazz-metal"



This. Not that it really bothers me as I don't pay too much attention to genre labeling, but I just don't understand it.

I find it funny that every guitarist's soloing is called jazz or fusion influenced these days when their soloing is barely ever played on intricate chord changes or otherwise mode based.

More music that actually shares both metal and jazz characteristics:


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## Jazzamatazz (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm wierd in that im really not a big fan of shredding and bands that are based on virtuoso guitarists. I MUCH prefer riffing. I'm not a big fan of Animals as Leaders, Mestis, alot of modern progressive music.


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## jehu12141987 (Jan 31, 2013)

Little Wayne's shredding.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> Or Jason Becker.
> 
> Or Steve Vai.
> 
> ...


 You forgot Andy Timmons... Whom I've been told has no soul in his playing before the minute he started playing fast.


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## TedEH (Jan 31, 2013)

I don't really know if this counts, but I've lately been really bothered by how any kind of heavy or aggressive music (I guess that counts as guitar dominated, for the most part) players are called closed-minded about their own style or about their tastes.

The two guys that taught me how to play guitar when I was a kid both insist I'll never "succeed" musically unless I start playing radio-targeted tunes. We clearly have a very different idea of what success is.

I'll admit I'm one of those types of people who can't stand most of what plays on the radio anymore, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a wide variety of music, and I don't tell anyone they're wrong for listening to what they like.

Sad story: I've been involved in two CD releases in the last year, and most of my family and so-called friends (if they even know I have CDs out) couldn't make it more than half a song into it before saying they can't tolerate any more.


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## ittoa666 (Jan 31, 2013)

DeathClown said:


> Mea Culpa - the Human Abstract



 Please. That song is insane.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 31, 2013)

McKay said:


> The Djent _formula_ when done with no imagination or unique aspect.


 
Oh... You mean the recording forum...


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## TheFerryMan (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying.
> 
> There also seems to be a subset of psychics that know exactly what style of music you play by what your guitar looks like. They also annoy me.



"Oh, yer black Do you like Hendrix?" 
BITCH NAW! Let me play you a song of my people... 

By Testement.

That's usually when I flip every table in an establishment. 

also, I'm SICK of people thinking that you have to be able to play really flashy leads to play metal. I like Riffs. They Groove me.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Oh... You mean the recording forum...



Ban in 3,2,1...

Back on topic: I think a sweet-sounding note with a soulful vibrato is worth more than a gazillion notes played on some Ibanez axe. Give me Santana over Becker or Malmsteen any day.


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## Aevolve (Jan 31, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Ban in 3,2,1...
> 
> Back on topic: I think a sweet-sounding note with a soulful vibrato is worth more than a gazillion notes played on some Ibanez axe. Give me Santana over Becker or Malmsteen any day.



Becker played Carvins, and Malmsteen plays Fenders. 


Sorry, had to do it.


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## tedtan (Jan 31, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Ban in 3,2,1...
> 
> Back on topic: I think a sweet-sounding note with a soulful vibrato is worth more than a gazillion notes played on some Ibanez axe. Give me Santana over Becker or Malmsteen any day.


 
Would it still count if that one sweet, soulful note was played on an Ibanez?


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## goherpsNderp (Jan 31, 2013)

-yelling "GO" before a breakdown or new riff in the song
-yelling "breakdown" before going into the break down
-running out of ideas for a song so resorting to playing a main riff near the end but just a lot slower
-relying too heavily on low chugging with high pitched dissonants thrown in between them (not that you can't do that, but doing it too often lacks creativity)
-BOOOOOOM drum triggers at the beginning of riffs. I DO NOT OWN A PROFESSIONAL AUDIO SETUP IN MY CAR OR HOME. PLEASE STOP.

can't think of anything else at the moment.


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## blaaargh (Jan 31, 2013)

For me, it really bothers me when the bass is so low in the mix that you can't ever hear it. Unfortunately, this is the case with all but .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of metal bands, so I have to just deal with it, but it makes me wonder why everyone hates metal bassists so much.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Jan 31, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Would it still count if that one sweet, soulful note was played on an Ibanez?



Of course. See "Vai". That was just me poking fun at the fact that soooo many shredders endorse IBanez instruments (specially RGs!). 

By the way, who the devil screams "BREAKDOWN!" before the actual breakdown? :S


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## tedtan (Jan 31, 2013)

goherpsNderp said:


> -BOOOOOOM drum triggers at the beginning of riffs. I DO NOT OWN A PROFESSIONAL AUDIO SETUP IN MY CAR OR HOME. PLEASE STOP.


 
I don't think I've ever hear this; can you provide an example?


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## tedtan (Jan 31, 2013)

^ m3l-mrq3z

I'm messin' with ya, man.


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## McKay (Jan 31, 2013)

blaaargh said:


> For me, it really bothers me when the bass is so low in the mix that you can't ever hear it. Unfortunately, this is the case with all but .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of metal bands, so I have to just deal with it, but it makes me wonder why everyone hates metal bassists so much.



Trust me, most mixes have tons of bass in them.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Jan 31, 2013)

tedtan said:


> ^ m3l-mrq3z
> 
> I'm messin' with ya, man.


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## Blasphemer (Jan 31, 2013)

goherpsNderp said:


> -yelling "GO" before a breakdown or new riff in the song



Unless it's Joe from Gojira


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## Rotatous (Jan 31, 2013)

The idea that the only way to be a great musician is to mindlessly shred.


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## wankerness (Jan 31, 2013)

McKay said:


> Trust me, most mixes have tons of bass in them.



Yeah, I think a lot of people are under the false impression that they can't hear the bass if it isn't like, separated as if it's a solo instrument and/or playing something totally different from the guitars. I'd say probably 50% of the modern-produced metal I hear has bass almost as loud as the guitars. That .00001% figure might apply to kvlt black metal/shitty death metal mixes though.


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## phantomnote (Jan 31, 2013)

Rotatous said:


> The idea that the only way to be a great musician is to mindlessly shred.



actually I am yet to hear anyone say this. I know its popular to be all like "playing fast isnt making music" and while thats true I've never truly heard anyone claim this.

However what I do hear is "playing shred-type stuff makes you a bad musician, 'cus its just playing a lot of notes instead of making a statement" which is just stupid -


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## DLG (Jan 31, 2013)

how about every single band now doing lyric videos for their new single and 85 percent that come out really have terrible lyrics that are better off never read


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## m3l-mrq3z (Jan 31, 2013)

DLG said:


> how about every single band now doing lyric videos for their new single and 85 percent that come out really have terrible lyrics that are better off never read



Some of those lyric videos even have spelling mistakes in them (ill nino).


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## TedEH (Jan 31, 2013)

wankerness said:


> Yeah, I think a lot of people are under the false impression that they can't hear the bass if it isn't like, separated as if it's a solo instrument and/or playing something totally different from the guitars. I'd say probably 50% of the modern-produced metal I hear has bass almost as loud as the guitars. That .00001% figure might apply to kvlt black metal/shitty death metal mixes though.



I don't think the volume of the bass track is the problem, it's a matter of not being able really hear what the bass is doing. As a bass player, I can record at home and always have a clear separation of what bass and guitar are doing, because I specifically carve out a space for the bass to be heard. But as soon as a non-bass player get involved in the mix, the low end of the guitar gets cranked, and you never hear the actual bass again.


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## sleightest (Jan 31, 2013)

Big pick scrape slide into punk power chords. Its been done way too many times please stop.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Jan 31, 2013)

crappy vibrato makes my ears bleed


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## bhakan (Jan 31, 2013)

TedEH said:


> I don't think the volume of the bass track is the problem, it's a matter of not being able really hear what the bass is doing. As a bass player, I can record at home and always have a clear separation of what bass and guitar are doing, because I specifically carve out a space for the bass to be heard. But as soon as a non-bass player get involved in the mix, the low end of the guitar gets cranked, and you never hear the actual bass again.


I don't think that it is so much the mix as the fact that most bass parts in metal just follow the guitars exactly. If the bass was actually playing something different, you would either be able to hear it clearly, or the mix would be adjusted so you could, but as long as it is just and octave lower guitar, you're not going to hear it well.


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## Triple-J (Jan 31, 2013)

The cliche I hate the most is the quiet verse/loud chorus formula cause it's been ran into the ground over the past twenty years by every genre/movement in rock, grunge, nu-metal and even pop punk all did it to death and even metalcore used it too but with a slight twist (shouty/screamy verse/loud melodic chorus) don't get me wrong I like that "oh my god here comes the big chorus riff!" feeling sometimes but it's incredibly predictable most of the time.


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## DarkWolfXV (Jan 31, 2013)

goherpsNderp said:


> -BOOOOOOM drum triggers at the beginning of riffs. I DO NOT OWN A PROFESSIONAL AUDIO SETUP IN MY CAR OR HOME. PLEASE STOP.


 
Its called a bass drop


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## goherpsNderp (Jan 31, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> By the way, who the devil screams "BREAKDOWN!" before the actual breakdown? :S



off the top of my head: unearth lol (maybe after the burial, also?)



tedtan said:


> I don't think I've ever hear this; can you provide an example?



in nearly every prog metal album i own. usually they'll play a build-up riff and then when they go all out you'll hear a really bassy boom kind of noise that coincides with the first note of the riff. also known as a "bass drop" too i guess.

here: "Sonic Boom" effect common in hardcore/metal break... - Harmony Central



Blasphemer said:


> Unless it's Joe from Gojira



truth. joe can say whatever he fucking wants. it will always sound awesome and mighty somehow.


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## tedtan (Jan 31, 2013)

Thanks, DarkWolfXV and goherpsNderp. I know exactly what you're talking about.


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## goherpsNderp (Jan 31, 2013)

yeah, sorry im not very good at describing stuff.


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## straightshreddd (Jan 31, 2013)

Djent. 



In djent's defense, I will say too much of *ANYTHING* is not good, so I'm not singling it out for what it is.


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## blaaargh (Jan 31, 2013)

TedEH said:


> I don't think the volume of the bass track is the problem, it's a matter of not being able really hear what the bass is doing. As a bass player, I can record at home and always have a clear separation of what bass and guitar are doing, because I specifically carve out a space for the bass to be heard. But as soon as a non-bass player get involved in the mix, the low end of the guitar gets cranked, and you never hear the actual bass again.


This is the primary culprit. It's further magnified when the guitars are super downtuned (especially if they're 6 strings) or when the bass is distorted, which can sometimes make it blend in with the guitar sound. This is why most doom records not featuring Al Cisneros don't really have a distinct bass sound either. The guitars have so much low end there's no room for the bass. It's true that when the bassline follows the guitar it doesn't help it stand out, but this is usually the case in most rock/punk bands and the bass is more present there than in metal.


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## Splinterhead (Jan 31, 2013)

Long lines of non-rhythmic soloing. (46,012 sixteenth notes). I like bopping but not really in contemporary music. I like lines that are rhythmic, lyrical and thoughtful.

Sweeping for the sake of sweeping. Tiring to listen to.

The pinch harmonic is over. Lets move on.

-curmudgeonly old man


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## ilyti (Jan 31, 2013)

TedEH said:


> Sad story: I've been involved in two CD releases in the last year, and most of my family and so-called friends (if they even know I have CDs out) couldn't make it more than half a song into it before saying they can't tolerate any more.



I'm sure that's (partially) because the music scene here in Ottawa/Gatineau is DISMAL. It's so elitist and insular I can't stand it.

and + 1 on anyone saying "good playing, shitty singer".


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## MistaSnowman (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> ...ignoring the fact that BB King was playing one POSITION but many notes because of all that goddamn bending.


 
And he rarely played any chords.


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 31, 2013)

The more effort I put into improving my bends and vibrato (hopefully this doesn't sound arrogant, but I've put some serious work into it, and noticed a fairly large improvement in the last year or so), the more it bugs me hearing really uncontrolled, shaky and tuneless vibrato when I listen to other people play... I just hate it. Seriously - for me, the real test of whether I will actually enjoy listening to any particular guitarist is in their vibrato - if it's good, it automatically makes everything else sound better, honestly.

It doesn't matter if you can't shred if your slow playing sounds as good as it can possibly get. Vibrato is a deceptively huge part of that.


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## The Reverend (Jan 31, 2013)

I kind of resent when someone will come out with a good idea, and then people who already have a good 'voice' on guitar will force that kind of thing into their own music. I know that it's not always intentional, but it really bothers me.

For example, the amount of electronica influence in sorta proggy, instrumental music. Yeah, it was cool when AAL and Periphery used that stuff, but I've heard it so much that it's disingenuous.


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## JPhoenix19 (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar.



I get that, and I'm white... 

I don't like how much of metal nowadays is about plinking and planking single note runs with wide intervals- and not really making a great deal of melodic sense.  Sure, it makes my head move at the grove, but that's more the rhythm section than your ADHD guitar riffs.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 31, 2013)

Over Shredding, that point in the song where it sounds good, for about a minute, when it drags on for like 5+ mins I get so bored, that's if it doesn't have imagination.


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## Jakke (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying.



Comments in the vein of Hendrix are not appreciated? Very well... I shall move over to Prince.


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## redstone (Jan 31, 2013)

BucketheadRules said:


> It doesn't matter if you can't shred if your slow playing sounds as good as it can possibly get. Vibrato is a deceptively huge part of that.



Speaking of that, just found a recent video with francesco fareri and he actually improved his horrible vibratos ! I was like.. OMG did he just slowed down his vibratos with a software


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## The Reverend (Jan 31, 2013)

Anthony said:


> If I hear one more song about space I swear....



QFT. 

I really don't care what your lyrics are about, if they're well-written. I can jive just as well with Misery Signals' often emotional, melancholy lyrics as I can with well-written, even if ridiculous, deathcore lyrics about chainsaws to the pussy, and how you'll bleed inside. The second you start relying on genre conventions, though, and not doing anything original or at least expanding on tried-and-true ideas, you've lost me.


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## xxCAGExx (Jan 31, 2013)

I get upset when people call Krallice a hipster band.


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## sleightest (Jan 31, 2013)

"Grunge sucks, grunge killed metal, Kurt Cobain sucked at guitar" etc....blah blah blah
I fucking hate those assholes. If you dont like it dont listen to it. Im sure if we brought Kurt back to life everyone on SS.org would shred him under the table and he would cry and kill himself again. Lets get the facts straight:
1. He was influenced by lots of punk and metal bands
2. Grunge bands went on to influence many metal musicians
3. His biggest priority in his songwriting wasnt to wank sweeps and tapping on stage with his guitar, if Kurt was going to masturbate on stage he would simply just actually masturbate on stage.


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## Jakke (Jan 31, 2013)

sleightest said:


> grunge killed metal



Grunge did pretty thoroughly kill hair metal, and I for one is pretty satisfied that hair metal went out of fashion



sleightest said:


> Kurt Cobain sucked at guitar



Speaking from an objective perspective, he was pretty bad at guitar. He was an excellent songwriter, but guitar... He maybe should have left that to other people. Especially when he is compared to contemporaries like Mike McReady, Jerry Cantrell, or Kim Thayl.
What also is clear is that Cobain could not play while high, many can/could do that, but Cobain could not.


I also want to add a cliché in this vein:

People not understanding that Kurt Cobain was not the entire grunge movement.


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## tedtan (Jan 31, 2013)

Jakke said:


> Comments in the vein of Hendrix are not appreciated? Very well... I shall move over to Prince.


 
Or you could just skip Prince and Vernon Reid and go straight on to Lenny Kravitz.


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## JosephAOI (Jan 31, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Of course. See "Vai". That was just me poking fun at the fact that soooo many shredders endorse IBanez instruments (specially RGs!).
> 
> By the way, who the devil screams "BREAKDOWN!" before the actual breakdown? :S


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## Off_The_Heezay (Jan 31, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> There also seems to be a subset of psychics that know exactly what style of music you play by what your guitar looks like. They also annoy me.



This is one of the biggest reasons I bought a tele (other than them being fucking cool obviously) - the amount of people who come up to me after shows and say 'woah, I thought you were going to be an indie band!' is awesome.


----------



## redstone (Jan 31, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


>




Made my day


----------



## Danukenator (Jan 31, 2013)

The whole idea of the "destruction" of music by modern artists. People have elevated this idea that modern pop/rock is going to destroy music to NWO levels of craziness. No one is forced to listen to Nickleback, they just happen to like it. 

Coming from my perspective as a metal fan, I never got the whole red vs. blue attitude towards music. The Partridge Family didn't kill music, Kesha and company sure won't either.


----------



## great_kthulu (Feb 1, 2013)

For me a big one is this idea of shredding vs. playing with feeling. Like, once you start playing fast, it's blasphemy to play a slow, "emotive" solo in the style of gilmore. It's really annoying. When people give me that attitude, I direct them to Shawn Lane!


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## Orsinium (Feb 1, 2013)

I really dislike the whole "core" genre this includes all kinds of insert core here bands for example, hard, metal, death, crab, scallop, urchin, orc, melodic, wizard, poopy, brown, doo doo. After growing up listening to predominantly pink floyd and dream theater it's just not good. Also the I, IV, V, chord progression has been done to death and same with the opening riff to breakdown, to octave chord chorus, back to breakdown formula.


----------



## Orsinium (Feb 1, 2013)

Also this isn't necessarily about guitar dominated music but music in general how people say who or what is killing the music industry, really the only thing killing the music industry is itself, most studios have refused to enter the "digital" age and need to accept that people are pirating their music and can easily make their own music, they have to learn to make money elsewhere live shows for example or just making music so good that people other than twelve year old girls want to buy it. Same thing is happening with movies and video games anyways.


----------



## brutalwizard (Feb 1, 2013)

People who think its not cliche to start guitar cliche threads on guitar forums.


----------



## Jakke (Feb 1, 2013)

Oh, meta-thread


----------



## Veldar (Feb 1, 2013)

Not a guitar thing but when people say that there better than me becasue I play bass and they play guitar, and that I should just buy one because I like to use Distortion.


----------



## chickenxnuggetz91 (Feb 1, 2013)

Play "FREE BIRD"!  Makes me want to break a guitar over the dumb redneck's head.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 1, 2013)

Learn how to do a f'n vibratos right, aka hammet god he sucks. It kills me and to much wah on solos, aka wylde and hammet. Anything that zakk wylde does he is so over rated. And bands that scoop all the mids out unless your dime put some mids in their. Every song does not need a breakdown just stop it. Djent i hate it all of it.


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## jonajon91 (Feb 1, 2013)

Bar long pick slides!


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## Slunk Dragon (Feb 1, 2013)

-The bass drops that require multi-million dollar studio monitors to listen to it properly. Sorry, but all I hear is the thunderous flatulence, NEXT.
-Shitty arpeggio-a-plenty solos that completely lack context in the song
-"Ibanezes are the only shred guitars"
-EVERY GUITAR EVER IS BLACK


----------



## Gram negative (Feb 1, 2013)

In metal: 
-Wussy lyrics complaining bout some chick that hurt your little demon-turd of a heart
-BOOM bass triggers. Its played out.
-Everyone suddenly dialing in the exact same tones on their AXE FX and Line 6. There are a million different bands that sound the same, these days.
-Terrible production
-Everyone looking the same. Tight Jeans-swoopy hair, lotsa tats
-Autotune.

Other genres:
-Autotune. Every mainstream band seems to use it these days. Not like rappers do, but used sort of like it was meant to be used. But I just cant stand the processed sound. And if you cant sing it in the studio, youre sure as fuck not gonna sing it live. 
-The recycled riffs in terrible mainstream rock...Seether, Shinedown, Disturbed..etc. I cant even tell those bands apart.
-Overuse of techno shit. I mean, I was listening to that stuff in the 90's guys. Im sorry it took the america 15 years to catch up and get on the techno bandwagon, but its a dead horse. Just play your guitar.


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## Louis Cypher (Feb 1, 2013)

The amount of flake the like of Nuno or Andy Timmon's has got online coz they have apparently "Sold Out for the money train" by "going mainstream" and playing with Rihanna (Nuno) & Pink (Timmons) and now Doug Aldrich for signing up with Lady Gaga.... Coz to be a great guitarist you can't play outside of your little genre box, can never go "Mainstream", and god forbid you think of yourself as a musician rather than just a guitarist.... 

Also sweep picking fcuks me off.... mainly coz I can't do it but also coz its replaced tapping as the flash fcuking trick for wanna be guitar wankers to show off with...

Outside of Metal - and related to ^
The lame way that RnB/Rap (thats Rap in the loosest sense of the term coz its so watered down now its pathetic) is now just runnign with crappy DJ's and Producers who are recycling early 90's euro dance beats with the same old same old shitty lyrics over the top, I am looking at you David Guetta in particular...... RnB truly is dead to me.... I'll stick to my classic New Jack albums and early Timberland productions


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## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 1, 2013)

Slunk Dragon said:


> -The bass drops that require multi-million dollar studio monitors to listen to it properly. Sorry, but all I hear is the thunderous flatulence, NEXT.



 This had me in a facepalm laughing for a minute hahahaha!!

I pretty much agree with most that's been said but here's my top 10, now there's a lot that pisses me off, and you might agree with some:

1) I'm at work. Smoke break. Start chatting with a girl who works in the mall:

Her: Oh no way you play guitar? What kind of music?
*PAUSE*
Me: uhhh... mostly death metal, melo-death, progressive metal, some ambient stuff too..
Her: OOOHH kewwwwll!! Like Metallica?? i love Metallica! You should go to the local open mic and jam out maaaan!
*PAUSE*
Me: FUUUUUUUU!!!! 

2) Pinch harmonics on the 3rd fret. Fuck off already. No, that doesn't make your shit riff sound cool... or pinch harmonics overload a la Zakk Wylde and KSE. I get it. I'm over it.

3) Purist guitarists who go "why did you buy a 7-string? What?? You bought an 8-string... Uhm, don't you have to be a master on a six-string first?"... to which my reply is loud and clear, "says who?" 

4) The idea that you HAVE to take a lesson in musical theory to be a considered a good or great guitarist. No, i don't have to. I feel weird saying it, but i can probably play circles around a lot of people. 10 years playing, not a second spent with an instructor. It's very doable.

5) When rhythm guitar is just an after-thought in songs, with little thought, groove, or creativity put into it. Not just deathcore either.

6) Asking my local guitar tech to please intonate my guitar and set it up to Standard D and then getting this reply,  are you suuuuure??  Actually no i'm not, now that i think about it can you tune it to Drop-fucking-A please?? 

7) Seeing band after band after band after band... do the running man jumping thing in unison at the start of a song, or the crabcore breakdown "errr mah gawd this part is so heavy my knees can't take it" gimmick in their music videos. They need a kick in the crotch... it's metal, grow some fucking hair and do some of these  or figure something else out. Hopefully something better, other than looking like you're warming up for a jog or shitting a donair out. Respectively.

8) Any song that starts in a breakdown gets an immediate NEXT!! from me. Build up a song first, then break it down (if you must). 

9) Musicians who go, "Oh you're an Arab? You must be really good at playing the Egyptian Scale!" ... now granted, with years of listening to Arab music, that yes i might have a better sense around this scale, but man what a piss off it is to hear that soooo many times  I get it, i'm a brown dude playing a guitar.

10) Above all, when i tell someone who plays a 6-string that i play a 7-string and they go, "man, that's weird. There's like... an extra string that i wouldn't know what to do with." 


Really dude?


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 1, 2013)

1)I hate when playing rythm, let's say, on an 8 string, people JUST HAVE TO COMPLAIN about you not using most of the strings (quote: why do you even bother buying an 8 string guitar if you are only using the top 3 strings?). Facepalm
2) it's a mandatory to put a breakdown in the middle, which sucks in the first place
3) all the screamo shit like asking alexandria, which is Pop that only includes distorted guitars and sync'ed headbanging.
4) the metalcore / deathcore hair styles. GAWD STAWHP
5) If writing lyrics, and hence there are few more not as commonly used words - meshuggah ripoff
6) same goes with the 8's - meshuggah ripoff
7) gay - like clean singing in the middle part of the song, which, I assume, should be the 'lyrical' part? Makes me vomit.
8) stating that deathcore / metalcore now is apparently the most br00tz shit out there.
9) Ripping off of metallica, calling sellouts etc.. Come on, grow up.
10)Rip dimebag / rip burton flooding..


----------



## Louis Cypher (Feb 1, 2013)

Element of Fanboy in this but still I am sick of it... 

I hate that EVERYONE in metal is on the trendy band wagon known as "I am a massive Meshuggah fan...Meshuggah are a huge influence on us.... 

Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?


----------



## skisgaar (Feb 1, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Element of Fanboy in this but still I am sick of it...
> 
> I hate that EVERYONE in metal is on the trendy band wagon known as "I am a massive Meshuggah fan...Meshuggah are a huge influence on us....
> 
> Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?


 
This. I'm not big a fan of Meshuggah (at all), but even I can see that these dildo's that call themselves muscians are lying when they say Meshuggah are a big influence on them. 

Where's the influence of weird time signatures? Of different song structures that don't follow a verse chorus pattern? The dark, calculating, evil atmospher that Meshuggah create in their music? Where are any of these things apparent in your music? No, you're just another terrible "Djent" metalcore chug band who big themselves up over facebook.


----------



## JosephAOI (Feb 1, 2013)

skisgaar said:


> This. I'm not big a fan of Meshuggah (at all), but even I can see that these dildo's that call themselves muscians are lying when they say Meshuggah are a big influence on them.
> 
> Where's the influence of weird time signatures? Of different song structures that don't follow a verse chorus pattern? The dark, calculating, evil atmospher that Meshuggah create in their music? Where are any of these things apparent in your music? No, you're just another terrible "Djent" metalcore chug band who big themselves up over facebook.



Uhhh... Just throwing this out there but 90% of Meshuggah is in 4/4 

Also, lots of people can be influenced by lots of bands but only show small bits of that influence or show it in a weird way. For example, maybe someone influenced by Meshuggah will have all the crazy poly-rhythms over 4 or maybe just like to throw in a little jazz fusion into metal, or maybe the way the static vocals are over the song. There's any number of ways any certain band can influence another.

One of mine:

Someone already said it but 'THAT' metalcore riff that keeps getting rewritten over and over again. JUST LET IT DIE.


----------



## Demiurge (Feb 1, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?



I presume they never heard it. As far as I can tell most who claim to be "influenced by Meshuggah" only made it a few tracks deep into Catch 33 and called it a day. "So I just string together a random sequence of low boomy notes, high quacky notes, and chugs- and how many noise gates do I run this through?"


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 1, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> Someone already said it but 'THAT' metalcore riff that keeps getting rewritten over and over again. JUST LET IT DIE.


Miguel Marquez-Metal medley (19 metal genres) - YouTube


----------



## JosephAOI (Feb 1, 2013)

Demiurge said:


> I presume they never heard it. As far as I can tell most who claim to be "influenced by Meshuggah" only made it a few tracks deep into Catch 33 and called it a day. "So I just string together a random sequence of low boomy notes, high quacky notes, and chugs- and how many noise gates do I run this through?"



Hey, Catch 33 is perfection. 

Also, tbh there isn't much I like off DEI. Some tracks are sick but I can't listen to it for very long. It's way too thrashy for my tastes.


----------



## acrcmb (Feb 1, 2013)

Those bands that just try to play as fast as they can for the whole length of the song with the vocalist growling the same cliche' stuff about black hearts and darkness, Pisses me off because when i say I like metal that's what people think of and there's so much more to it than that I think a simple riff can do more to create mood in a song than someone shredding and drummers aswell drums should have some kind of rhythm to them I don't care how fast you can hit them over and over. 
Also agree about the unfitting solos thing it's like watching a movie that starts playing another movie halfway through.


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff (Feb 1, 2013)

Demiurge said:


> I presume they never heard it. As far as I can tell most who claim to be "influenced by Meshuggah" only made it a few tracks deep into Catch 33 and called it a day. "So I just string together a random sequence of low boomy notes, high quacky notes, and chugs- and how many noise gates do I run this through?"



*_cough cough Vildhjarta cough cough_... [FlameShield ACTIVATE!]

I hate that Periphery has (inadvertently) created an entire pantheon of shit bands imitating them. 

I hate every single fucking song that has the "djent formula" i.e. Open single low string repetition in some "odd" meter with a little dissonance peppered around syncopated mini riffs with 2 second ascending runs at the end. 

I hate that people idealize musicians so much and end up copying not only how they play music but what types of guitars they buy, music they listen to etc.

I hate that so much repetition and staleness in the metal community has made me a cynical douchebag hell bent on killing everyone's fun. 

Luckily SSO is mostly comprised of decent people who are smart enough to think for themselves. (save for the occasional Misha fanboy)


----------



## hairychris (Feb 1, 2013)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Its called a bass drop



Or Sub drop.

Extra annoyance when it's triggered during a live show by a shit metalcore band.

But yeah, I've even caught Origin and Anaal Nathrakh doing it on their last albums.

PLEASE FUCKING STOP NOW.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 1, 2013)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Luckily SSO is mostly comprised of decent people who are smart enough to think for themselves. (*save for the occasional Misha fanboy*)



Hmm judging by the amount of entries in the Periphery megathread, I would say there is more than one ocassional Misha fanboy.


----------



## Demiurge (Feb 1, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> Hey, Catch 33 is perfection.
> 
> Also, tbh there isn't much I like off DEI. Some tracks are sick but I can't listen to it for very long. It's way too thrashy for my tastes.



I like it, too, but at no point was I like, "OMG, I have to do this and exactly this... and when a bunch of people do this we'll call it PROGRESSIVE!"


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 1, 2013)

To be influenced by someone, I don't think you (a person) have to like everything the band has made. So this added to other things I don't like.
Let's say i've once heard a song, called 'black soul choir' by 16 horsepower.They play BLUEGRASS.
The point is, I don't really like all the songs that they have made, but I really dig the atmosphere in that song, lyrical content etc. And it made me think about some things, it led me to creating my own ideas, cought by the song. This is influence, not that, let's say, I'm influenced by meshuggah, I have to add polymethers in songs or use 8 strings, and overall - become a trend-ish djent scene kid.. 
This is just absurd.
And for some reason, I don't like periphery. at all. Not a single song, nor they're tone and especially not vocals. 
Hope I don't classify to the 'NOOB HATER POSER' scene. 

And for the destroy - erase - improve album.. 
It's a different approach, not everyone enjoys thrashy death metal, I assume. But still, I get back to what I've said in the first lines..
Maybe I only enjoy they're last album? Respect peoples' taste! (except for metalcorish death djent core scenery - it deserves to be hated  )


----------



## Metal_Webb (Feb 1, 2013)

hairychris said:


> Or Sub drop.
> 
> Extra annoyance when it's triggered during a live show by a shit metalcore band.



Went and saw Tesseract and Periphery in July 2011 in Sydney. They had some random local band opening for them. Their whole set was BOOOOOMMMMMWOOSHHSHHHHHHHHHH (Sub Drop btw). Made me want to punch babbies.


/OT.
My hangups are anyone who blatantly copies the opening riff from Blinded By Fear. (Looking at you metalcore bands )


----------



## Jazzamatazz (Feb 1, 2013)

Actually I have to put this up here to counter the 8 and 7 string guys.

-Extended range guitarists who give me shit for sticking to six strings, I don't give you shit for playing extended range, I prefer the standard guitars.
-People asking me why I haven't switched to the Axe Fx or Line 6 POD. I'm not a fan, no problem with people who do, I just don't want one.


That being said i've got no problem with people using extended range guitars or digital amplifiers, it's their thing and they like it, it's just not my bag.


Edit - P.S. I agree with you guys, metalcore/deathcore sub drop is annoying as frack


----------



## jehu12141987 (Feb 1, 2013)

Does having three guitarists count as a cliche now? If so, tack that onto my list.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 1, 2013)

hairychris said:


> Or Sub drop.
> 
> Extra annoyance when it's triggered during a live show by a shit metalcore band.
> 
> ...


 
I dunno why bass drops are annoying to you, unless they are spammed, they add heaviness imo.


----------



## muffinbutton (Feb 1, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Of course. See "Vai". That was just me poking fun at the fact that soooo many shredders endorse IBanez instruments (specially RGs!).
> 
> By the way, who the devil screams "BREAKDOWN!" before the actual breakdown? :S



They don't scream it but: 



Also, too much high screaming in a deathcore band really annoys me. Stuff like The Used is fine because it's not excessive.


----------



## hairychris (Feb 1, 2013)

DarkWolfXV said:


> I dunno why bass drops are annoying to you, unless they are spammed, they add heaviness imo.



Er no. If you need to add limp shit like this to be heavy then you are doing it wrong. Yes, it adds punctuation but completely detracts from everything else, and you're in a no-win situation when playing the track live:

1) You don't do it, you aren't putting in your "look at me" noise.
2) You do do it, it sounds fucking retarded.

Spamming it could be pretty funny if it was a gabber tune or something.

Anyway, the most blindingly heavy stuff that I've ever heard doesn't use this gimmick, so it proves that songwriting needs improvement.


----------



## shanike (Feb 1, 2013)

dimebag tributes.
pick scratching.
feedback.
swearing.


----------



## JosephAOI (Feb 1, 2013)

jehu12141987 said:


> Does having three guitarists count as a cliche now? If so, tack that onto my list.





*Is starting a band that will have 3 guitarists*



shanike said:


> dimebag tributes.
> pick scratching.
> feedback.
> swearing.


 Not to be rude, but you're gonna have to get the fuck over that last one cause it's everywhere.

Also, I think bass drops are fun.


----------



## 1968 Charger B5 (Feb 1, 2013)

We stupid/less intelligent, or even druggies/drunks..

Couldnt be further from the truth with me anyway. Never do drugs, rarely booze, and I am an attorney...


----------



## tedtan (Feb 1, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Element of Fanboy in this but still I am sick of it...
> 
> I hate that EVERYONE in metal is on the trendy band wagon known as "I am a massive Meshuggah fan...Meshuggah are a huge influence on us....
> 
> Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?


 
I wouldn't say they were a huge influence on me, but that's actually my favorite Meshuggah album, followed by Chaosphere. I'm not that into their newer stuff.


----------



## tedtan (Feb 1, 2013)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> I hate that Periphery has (inadvertently) created an entire pantheon of shit bands imitating them.


 
Unfortunately, you see this with every band that achieves a degree of success. It's kind of like a comet: a head and a tail. The original band is often pretty good (even if not always suited to my personal taste) and could be likened to the head. The follow along bands are like the tail of the comet, and the further you go back from the original band, the shittier they get.


----------



## CloudAC (Feb 1, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Element of Fanboy in this but still I am sick of it...
> 
> I hate that EVERYONE in metal is on the trendy band wagon known as "I am a massive Meshuggah fan...Meshuggah are a huge influence on us....
> 
> Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?



Um... I was a 1 year old. I didn't even know what music was then.  Even still, I AM a pretty big Meshuggah fan and have been for the past 5 years. Why should the fact I wasn't listening to them when that album was released have any effect on whether im 'following the trend' or not? 

Seems pretty unfair to be honest, I know a ton of Meshuggah fans my age who only started getting into them(through me) two, maybe even one year ago and consider Meshuggah as a partial influence. and I know they aren't following a trend.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 1, 2013)

hairychris said:


> Er no. If you need to add limp shit like this to be heavy then you are doing it wrong. Yes, it adds punctuation but completely detracts from everything else, and you're in a no-win situation when playing the track live:
> 
> 1) You don't do it, you aren't putting in your "look at me" noise.
> 2) You do do it, it sounds fucking retarded.
> ...


 
I dont need to add it to be heavy, but in some cases this could be fun and accent a part.


----------



## Orsinium (Feb 1, 2013)

This isn't necessarily about guitar based music but I hate that because I wear glasses and I cut my three foot long hair to give to charity now all of a sudden people think I am a hipster or something, I mean I actually need glasses to see they aren't some sort of accessory to my wardrobe frakkkkkkk.


----------



## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 1, 2013)

I don't think that word means what you think it means...


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## Veldar (Feb 1, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Element of Fanboy in this but still I am sick of it...
> 
> I hate that EVERYONE in metal is on the trendy band wagon known as "I am a massive Meshuggah fan...Meshuggah are a huge influence on us....
> 
> Fuck Off. Fuck Off right now. Where were you when Destroy Erase Improve came out?





skisgaar said:


> This. I'm not big a fan of Meshuggah (at all), but even I can see that these dildo's that call themselves muscians are lying when they say Meshuggah are a big influence on them.
> 
> Where's the influence of weird time signatures? Of different song structures that don't follow a verse chorus pattern? The dark, calculating, evil atmospher that Meshuggah create in their music? Where are any of these things apparent in your music? No, you're just another terrible "Djent" metalcore chug band who big themselves up over facebook.



Hey I say that Meshuggah influenced me but not in the Djent way but that fact that the music is so extreme like S.Y.L, personally I think Djent as a whole would have been better if they stayed really heavy.


----------



## jonajon91 (Feb 1, 2013)

This thread has become more general now so I will say.
1. pentagrams
2. skulls
3. neon color (I saw a yellow Asking alexandria Tshit today)
4. upside down crosses outside of black metal
5. high swear to non-swear ratio (the less you swear, the more effective it is)
6. long pitch bends that say 'hey look! solo time!!'
7. bringing your left hand over the top of the fretboard (eruption people!)


----------



## nostealbucket (Feb 1, 2013)

Very tight guitar tone.


----------



## Bigfan (Feb 1, 2013)

People complaining about music. It's probably the worst thing about the ability to communicate.

Actually, that goes for most subjective things.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 1, 2013)

nostealbucket said:


> Very tight guitar tone.


 
Indeed, where are the balls? Where is the fizz? Where is the fucking meat?


----------



## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 1, 2013)

nostealbucket said:


> Very tight guitar tone.



I like my tone like I like my pussy...

meaty and floppy and fuzzy.


----------



## Opion (Feb 1, 2013)

Probably already been said before, but I way prefer careful note choices/tasteful phrasing than note-flexing.


----------



## kamello (Feb 1, 2013)

Noob question:

the hell are bass triggers?, I just knew about Drums triggers....and still I don't understand them very clearly 



WaffleTheEpic said:


> I like my tone like I like my pussy...
> 
> meaty and floppy and fuzzy.


----------



## anthonyferguson (Feb 1, 2013)

The fucking bastard twatting minor pentatonic scale.


----------



## Dan Halen (Feb 1, 2013)

What I really hate is when People judge you/your personality IMMEDIATELY after you tell them either what kind of music you like or that in the midst of other genres you like one they don't. Like if you say you like Metal they immediately see you as some sort of idiot, or if you listen to jazz/prog/prog-metal (I get the same reaction from all three) that your some kind of pretentious dick-mouth, or if you listen to pop music your some conformist, top-40 slave.

I also hate Elitists/Traditionalists in ANY genre saying that other genre's "SUCK" just because it's not what they grew up with or listen too. This mostly applies to older generations, but is not limited to by ANY means. I fuckin' get it, and I see it's not your bag, but SHUT THE FUCKING-FUCK UP! 

-Don't tell me that Van Halen isn't good because he plays fast/plays blues scales ripped off of Clapton/is Hair metal garbage! 

-DON'T tell me that Unearth is metalcore breakdown trash/too riffey/solos arent emotional/too many note shredshit

-Don't tell me that Periphery is fucking lame ass screamo bullshit/meshuggah ripoff/trendy garbage.

-Don't fucking tell me that Maroon 5 Is garbage pop music/ whiney and lame/ has no talent because they don't shred/only put funk and jazz in a little to make them sound more obscure to get better publicity



I LISTEN TO WHAT EVER I WANT! YOU DON'T HAVE TO!

Don't people realize there's multiple ways to play music, and that this is what preference is made of?


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## wankerness (Feb 1, 2013)




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## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 1, 2013)

Kirk Hammett


----------



## blacksheep (Feb 1, 2013)

Govan Emmanuel said:


>




I can't stop staring at his lack of sideburns... it's almost... mesmerizing....


----------



## Miek (Feb 1, 2013)

Christ y'all pissy


----------



## 7Mic7 (Feb 1, 2013)

This thread is disgusting haha


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 1, 2013)

This thread is a testament to how difficult it is to please ALL TASTES and/or biases


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## Demiurge (Feb 1, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> This thread is a testament to how difficult it is to please ALL TASTES and/or biases



True, but no one should aim to please everyone. I'd think that a lot of people are here and have the tastes the have because they at some point became unwilling to accept whatever's mainstream and popular as the be-all and end-all, so it shouldn't be surprise that the opinion-expression continues here. As long as no one is being deliberately dickish or accusative, discussions like this are good things IMO.


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## I Voyager (Feb 1, 2013)

So much bass drop hate in here! 

Y'all need to listen to some Chimaira and SYL.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 1, 2013)

Demiurge said:


> True, but no one should aim to please everyone. I'd think that a lot of people are here and have the tastes the have because they at some point became unwilling to accept whatever's mainstream and popular as the be-all and end-all, so it shouldn't be surprise that the opinion-expression continues here. As long as no one is being deliberately dickish or accusative, discussions like this are good things IMO.



Couldn't agree more, if for anything else it's entertaining!


----------



## Kiwimetal101 (Feb 1, 2013)

jehu12141987 said:


> Does having three guitarists count as a cliche now? If so, tack that onto my list.



This annoys me, periphery and a few other band have a need for it and use it effectively..

I don't get every rif/rif/rif/breakdown/rif deathcore band needing them


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## flint757 (Feb 1, 2013)

I like being the only guitar player in my bands (and not because I have an ego or anything ) because in the writing process it opens up the music a bit. I can't stand a wall of sound. It makes me come up with clever ideas/work around's and it allows the bass to come through the music better IMO.


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## Jakke (Feb 1, 2013)

My band went around the wall of sound simply by the other guitarist being obsessed with teles, we simply occupy two different mid levels in the music


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## JohnIce (Feb 1, 2013)

A lot of dishonesty in favour of trying to be cool, macho, trendy or whatever. It manifests itself mostly in two different ways:

1) So many guitar-oriented heavy rock/metal bands today have fucking shit lyrics. They're about absolutely nothing. Either something boring and cliché or something nonsensical about quantum physics. There's very little story telling and honesty, people are either trying to sound cool or hyper-intellectual. I find most other genres (save from mainstream hip hop) to have more compelling lyrics most of the time.

2) Too obviously sample-replaced drums. I'm all for samples when they sound like a kit and blend well into the mix, but a lot of times it just sounds fake and makes the mix sound small. Even in the age of digital amp modelers being even more popular than tube amps, I still hear more "digital" sounding drums than guitars on records today.


----------



## Andromalia (Feb 2, 2013)

Guys that think that since they have short hair, just in case we don't notice they headbang, they do it with a 45° body movement starting at the knees.


----------



## axxessdenied (Feb 2, 2013)

So much angst in this thread.


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## facepalm66 (Feb 2, 2013)

axxessdenied said:


> So much angst in this thread.


 
Well, why not? It's just like death metal.. You don't cut people into 1 square inch cubes, then make a soup out of them.. you just let it all out, and yer done! 

I'd also add to the 'annoying' collection - youtube comments in general. fucking douchebags 
And i'd add 'BASS IS PLAYED WITH FINGERS' dumbshit


----------



## phugoid (Feb 2, 2013)

Metal guys patting each other on the back about how "extreme" their "music" is. Bull. You might play with extreme gain or extreme hang-over, but you ain't no Stravinsky.

Metal guys complaining everyone else is prejudiced against metal, when:
1. Their album cover has a decayed female corpse hanging upside down on a cross.
2. The same dudes won't listen to anything else than metal (spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y).


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 2, 2013)

phugoid said:


> Metal guys patting each other on the back about how "extreme" their "music" is. Bull. You might play with extreme gain or extreme hang-over, but you ain't no Stravinsky.
> .



This reminds me of metal musicians with zero knowledge of music theory thinking they are making complex music just because it sounds like periphery.


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## Louis Cypher (Feb 2, 2013)

CloudAC said:


> Um... I was a 1 year old. I didn't even know what music was then.  Even still, I AM a pretty big Meshuggah fan and have been for the past 5 years. Why should the fact I wasn't listening to them when that album was released have any effect on whether im 'following the trend' or not?
> 
> Seems pretty unfair to be honest, I know a ton of Meshuggah fans my age who only started getting into them(through me) two, maybe even one year ago and consider Meshuggah as a partial influence. and I know they aren't following a trend.



Think you have taken my comment a little too literally mate, or mis understood who I am getting at, obviously if you were 1 when they came out with their first album then how could you get in to them until recently?? Clearly you have got in to them naturally and as a fan. 

My point was aimed at the band wagon jumpers who 3 or 4 years ago would have despised Meshuggah but who now coz they are now seeing more mainstream recognition are now quoting them as an influence or or being a huge fan of in interviews. Just seems to be to me a huge trend now with metal bands that you have to "prove" how metal you are by the fact you "love" a band as technically and musically on the cutting edge as Meshuggah.... Same as post Grunge everyone and his mother was suddenly a huge Nirvana/Cobain fan!?!? Or that weird period when every shredder seemed to be suddenly a massive fan of Robert Johnson and the early blues?!!!!! WTF? Or the amount of people that bash Nu Metal, someone other than me was buying Nu Metal else hwo could bands like Korn sell 20+million albums? I don't have 500,000 copies of Untouchables??! Its the trend of bashing or embracing bands or genre's or whatever purely because its popular to do so.

Sorry if you thought I was having a dig at you coz you were 1 when a certain album came out.


----------



## Draceius (Feb 2, 2013)

Just read through all 7 pages of this thread, might have to start a "what things do you actually like in guitar dominated music" thread 

On a serious note, the only thing that bugs me is either constant dissonant chord breakdowns or when the vocalist sounds like his voice is breaking inbetween screams. I'm pretty chill with most things.


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## JosephAOI (Feb 2, 2013)

Kiwimetal101 said:


> This annoys me, periphery and a few other band have a need for it and use it effectively..



This. The only reason I have a 3 guitar player band is out of necessity. When I started writing music for my project, there was too many things I wanted to do that couldn't be accomplished with 2 guitars.


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 2, 2013)

jonajon91 said:


> This thread has become more general now so I will say.
> 1. pentagrams
> 2. skulls
> 3. neon color (I saw a yellow Asking alexandria Tshit today)
> ...



Not a fan of Slayer, I presume?


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Feb 2, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> And i'd add 'BASS IS PLAYED WITH FINGERS' dumbshit



Yeah, I get REALLY sick of defending my choice to use a pick on bass. I know how to play with my fingers, I just prefer the TONE i get from using a pick!!!


----------



## 80H (Feb 2, 2013)

boxes.


----------



## DeathClown (Feb 2, 2013)

80H said:


> boxes.



Boxes?


----------



## Basti (Feb 2, 2013)

80H said:


> boxes.





DeathClown said:


> Boxes?


boxes. 



wait...boxes?


----------



## slapnutz (Feb 2, 2013)

Maybe he forgot the "r"?









...Yeah I got nothing.


----------



## 80H (Feb 2, 2013)

Basti said:


> boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> wait...boxes?



i meant what i said


----------



## 80H (Feb 2, 2013)

But im getting pretty sick of boxers too. They don't keep my balls in place when i'm wearing a good pair of slacks. I like boxer briefs for that, but i also like having a place to pee/jerk. hard knock life


----------



## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 2, 2013)

flint757 said:


> I like being the only guitar player in my bands (and not because I have an ego or anything ) because in the writing process it opens up the music a bit. I can't stand a wall of sound. It makes me come up with clever ideas/work around's and it allows the bass to come through the music better IMO.


Same here. My band actually has a pianist and a violinist as well so that adds another reason for one guitar only (inb4 Unexpect has 2 guitarists)


----------



## Demiurge (Feb 2, 2013)

80H said:


> boxes.



Like the term used for a scale laid-out in a specific position on the fretboard?

Like when you see a band who play ever single song in drop-D and the lead player slides their hand up behind frets 10-13 to play the solo and will not leave to play any notes outside of that position because they wouldn't be able to find the appropriate notes otherwise?


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 2, 2013)

sniperfreak223 said:


> Yeah, I get REALLY sick of defending my choice to use a pick on bass. I know how to play with my fingers, I just prefer the TONE i get from using a pick!!!



Dude, sorry but i'm calling  on that. Everyone is prrrretty much in agreement that tone comes from playing with your FINGERS, not a pick.......man. It's a universal truth really by now is all I'm saying. 














Ahhh i kid I kid.


----------



## jonajon91 (Feb 2, 2013)

sniperfreak223 said:


> Not a fan of Slayer, I presume?



not really, but for different reasons.


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 2, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Dude, sorry but i'm calling  on that. Everyone is prrrretty much in agreement that tone comes from playing with your FINGERS, not a pick.......man. It's a universal truth really by now is all I'm saying.


Fuck you, I took it for granted bofore seeing the end 

Slayer is basically staying the same that they have started from... Got bored with them, too repetetive...
And another thing which deserves not to be liked: complaining about bands changing they're styles.. 
It's like eating pasta for the rest of your already miserable life..


----------



## jonajon91 (Feb 2, 2013)

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Dude, sorry but i'm calling  on that. Everyone is prrrretty much in agreement that tone comes from playing with your FINGERS, not a pick.......man. It's a universal truth really by now is all I'm saying.



As a finger bassist I can say prefer the tone of a pick because of its volume and clarity. The only reason I don't pick is because I can do more with my fingers.


----------



## fps (Feb 2, 2013)

I actually don't know where to start with this question. But the biggest cliche in guitar music for me involves not spending enough time on the lyrics. 

And I despise all Swedish melodic metal style harmonised guitars, I just find them so boring I can't stay awake, in all the bands of that style I've heard they're never done surprisingly, they never change key or do anything cool, just rubbish.


----------



## NovaReaper (Feb 2, 2013)

fps said:


> I actually don't know where to start with this question. But the biggest cliche in guitar music for me involves not spending enough time on the lyrics.
> 
> And I despise all Swedish melodic metal style harmonised guitars, I just find them so boring I can't stay awake, in all the bands of that style I've heard they're never done surprisingly, they never change key or do anything cool, just rubbish.



i take it you have never heard at the gates before slaughter of the soul and think that opeth and in flames are death metal bands


----------



## skisgaar (Feb 2, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> And another thing which deserves not to be liked: complaining about bands changing they're styles..
> It's like eating pasta for the rest of your already miserable life..



This is sig worthy material!


----------



## Basti (Feb 2, 2013)

you know the Angel of Death solo? Can't stand the drum line. I love Slayer and I love thrash but everytime the drums start going TAH-TAH-TAH-TAH-TAH...I just wanna scream and hide.


----------



## tedtan (Feb 2, 2013)

Draceius said:


> Just read through all 7 pages of this thread, might have to start a "what things do you actually like in guitar dominated music" thread


 
You'll get the same exact answers given in this thread, just given by different people.


----------



## tedtan (Feb 2, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> And another thing which deserves not to be liked: complaining about bands changing they're styles..
> It's like eating pasta for the rest of your already miserable life..


 
I like to hear a band grow and progress over their career, too. But I don't think the analogy holds because there are MANY types of foods (and bands) to choose from if one doesn't fit your current mood. And even within a limited type (e.g., pasta or metal) there are thousands of options. 

How many variations of pasta can be found in Italian food? Chinese food? Vietnamese food? Thai food? Etc.

How many different sounds can be found in traditional metal? NWOBHM?Thrash? Death? Melo-Death? Black? Prog? Core? Etc.


----------



## otisct20 (Feb 2, 2013)

For me, its other guitarists/musicians.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 2, 2013)

Basti said:


> you know the Angel of Death solo? Can't stand the drum line. I love Slayer and I love thrash but everytime the drums start going TAH-TAH-TAH-TAH-TAH...I just wanna scream and hide.



lol I always thought the drums were the only thing in that solo part that was good.


----------



## guitareben (Feb 2, 2013)

*GUITARISTS WHO CAN'T DO VIBRATO*


----------



## guitareben (Feb 2, 2013)

jonajon91 said:


> 7. bringing your left hand over the top of the fretboard (eruption people!)


----------



## Basti (Feb 2, 2013)

I also hate when guitarists are the beginning and end of the whole music. Cept for Jimi, that's cos it just worked at the time.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 2, 2013)

Solo guitarists that write "songs" that are nothing but a backing track for them to shred on. 

By the way Steve Vai can write some great music, but he ruined "Passion and warfare" by adding unnecessary samples of speech to every single tune.


----------



## Aevolve (Feb 2, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> Either something boring and cliché or something nonsensical about quantum physics. There's very little story telling and honesty, people are either trying to sound cool or hyper-intellectual.



A few people have listed this. This concerns me, as my band consists of an Electrical/Aerospace Engineering major and a Physics/Aerospace major (myself).. we love physics and astronomy, and tend to write a lot of lyrics about them.
I suppose it would bother me if people had no clue what they were talking about with the subject matter, but if it's coherent, I think scientific lyrics are great.


----------



## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 2, 2013)

kamello said:


> Noob question:
> 
> the hell are bass triggers?, I just knew about Drums triggers....and still I don't understand them very clearly



They're these things that, when the bass drum is struck, it sends an impulse through a speaker. Basically just makes the bass drum more audible.

People used to be really pissy about them, saying they made your bass drum sound "faster".


----------



## wankerness (Feb 2, 2013)

Drum triggers are basically comparable to guitar distortion, they add an effect over the sound which can be used to make them sound more metal or whatever. People who don't understand them have for about 10 years now equated them to "cheating," some who think that it means they play the sound of several bass drum hits whenever they hit the bass drum once, others who are like "lol it means you can hit the drums lightly or with uneven dynamics and it will sound like you hit them all equally hard!!!!!" Hey, sort of like using a compressor on a guitar! > My understnading is that nearly every drum recording done these days uses them besides like, small jazz groups or that kind of music where they're going for a fully acoustic sound.


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## blaaargh (Feb 2, 2013)

The only time I have an issue with triggers is if they're using them live and it drowns out everything else. This one band I played with a few months ago had a trigger on the bass drum and that was seriously all you could hear.


----------



## 80H (Feb 2, 2013)

Demiurge said:


> Like the term used for a scale laid-out in a specific position on the fretboard?
> 
> Like when you see a band who play ever single song in drop-D and the lead player slides their hand up behind frets 10-13 to play the solo and will not leave to play any notes outside of that position because they wouldn't be able to find the appropriate notes otherwise?



Pretty much this, yeah. Some of the music that inspired me to start playing guitar is like flopping around in the kiddie pool now. It's worse when they have $4,000 stock production guitars


----------



## tedtan (Feb 2, 2013)

The oroginal post referring to bass triggers meant bass drops/sub drops.

But speaking of triggers, they're just mics that send a signal to a sampler. The sampler plays a sample every time the mic "triggers" it to. Which samples are chosen and how loudly they are mixed in is up the discretion of the mixer.


----------



## tedtan (Feb 2, 2013)

Aevolve said:


> A few people have listed this. This concerns me, as my band consists of an Electrical/Aerospace Engineering major and a Physics/Aerospace major (myself).. we love physics and astronomy, and tend to write a lot of lyrics about them.
> I suppose it would bother me if people had no clue what they were talking about with the subject matter, but if it's coherent, I think scientific lyrics are great.


 
Since you mention that it could bother you if people don't understand your lyrics, I'll point out that if you're writing these lyrics at anything other than the highest, most superficial of levels, they will be well over most peoples' heads. So if you write for people other than physicists, astronomers, engineers, etc., you may consider writing about more universally understood/felt topics.


----------



## Deadfall (Feb 2, 2013)

All the fans,particularly other guitar players,that insist on classifying everything into genres and sub-genres. When its mostly just metal right?
I mean on this forum I've heard all kinda stuff like,
Hatecore
hardcore
death metal
black metal
djent(wtw) lol
melodic metal
melodic death metal
umm screamo
prog
math rock?
hair metal
j-pop ( I could do this all day)

That is all.


----------



## The_Mop (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow, some SERIOUS misinformation about drum triggering ITT.

Admittedly, there's so many fucking annoying guitar cliches you could exhaustively list them, work against them and find yourself realising that guitar is a pretty shitty instrument. Except it isn't. It's just dominated by shite playing and shite attitudes.

Fucking hell I have never sounded so cynical


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Feb 2, 2013)

jonajon91 said:


> As a finger bassist I can say prefer the tone of a pick because of its volume and clarity. The only reason I don't pick is because I can do more with my fingers.



Exactly, it's a completely different tone, sharper and more percussive, and when you're playing faster stuff, like thrash or speed metal, finger-picking just muddies up the notes too much for my taste.


----------



## Veldar (Feb 3, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> Slayer is basically staying the same that they have started from... Got bored with them, too repetetive...



Well that's why everyone loves them because they didn't try to go pop-rock E.G Metallica's black album



sniperfreak223 said:


> Exactly, it's a completely different tone, sharper and more percussive, and when you're playing faster stuff, like thrash or speed metal, finger-picking just muddies up the notes too much for my taste.



Yep especially with Distortion, try plucking like a pick with your fingers. (without growing your nails long)


----------



## Gnome7 (Feb 3, 2013)

Breakdowns. I absolutely hate them, also I'm hating all these djent bands coming out. They all sound the same, they chug in odd time signatures then add a melodic piece. They also have stupid names to make them sound "technical". Ex: Structures, Volumes, Teserract etc.


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 3, 2013)

tedtan said:


> How many variations of pasta can be found in Italian food? Chinese food? Vietnamese food? Thai food? Etc.
> 
> How many different sounds can be found in traditional metal? NWOBHM?Thrash? Death? Melo-Death? Black? Prog? Core? Etc.


 
doesn't really matter, actually. For example, when I'm on hangover, I can't even look at ANY kind of alcohol. Doesn't matter if it's a glass of beer, or a shot of whiskey.
I assume same goes here.
plus, every band holds this some sort of 'taste' of approach in music you really enjoy, so picking 200 different bands with as many songs isn't always the solution.


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 3, 2013)

Veldar said:


> Well that's why everyone loves them because they didn't try to go pop-rock E.G Metallica's black album


But that's the point: it's a matter of taste.
I always enjoy and probably forever will metallica's load / reload rather than, let's say, kill em all. 

I don't give a flying fuck wether it's thrash or friggin pop, If I enjoy - I enjoy it.
And there's so much hidden in the lines, you (person) just have have to understand it. If it's not your cup of tea - it's fine, but not essentially necesary to hate on. Just my 2 cents + 1 extra


----------



## Veldar (Feb 3, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> But that's the point: it's a matter of taste.
> I always enjoy and probably forever will metallica's load / reload rather than, let's say, kill em all.
> 
> I don't give a flying fuck wether it's thrash or friggin pop, If I enjoy - I enjoy it.
> And there's so much hidden in the lines, you (person) just have have to understand it. If it's not your cup of tea - it's fine, but not essentially necesary to hate on. Just my 2 cents + 1 extra



Yeah I agree with you, I wasn't hating on the black album.


----------



## abandonist (Feb 3, 2013)

meedly-meedly-meee squiggly-squabadoo

It's like the metal version of Phish.


----------



## geoffshreds (Feb 3, 2013)

everybody bitching about whats wrong with everyone else's music/playing... concern yourself with what YOU are doing right or wrong


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## abandonist (Feb 3, 2013)

Welcome to the internet, are you new?


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## fps (Feb 3, 2013)

NovaReaper said:


> i take it you have never heard at the gates before slaughter of the soul and think that opeth and in flames are death metal bands



I've covered a song from Slaughter Of The Soul in a band actually, and my favourite death metal bands are Cryptopsy, Decapitated, Nile and Cannibal Corpse. 

Soooooooo.........


----------



## tedtan (Feb 3, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> doesn't really matter, actually. For example, when I'm on hangover, I can't even look at ANY kind of alcohol. Doesn't matter if it's a glass of beer, or a shot of whiskey.
> I assume same goes here.
> plus, every band holds this some sort of 'taste' of approach in music you really enjoy, so picking 200 different bands with as many songs isn't always the solution.


 
My whole point was that you are free to lsiten to what you want and to not listen to what you don't want to listen to. The choice is entirely yours, and if you get bored with something, there are plenty of alternatives to choose from, even within a given style (metal or pasta in your example). You're even free to choose not to listen to anything at all if you please. So if you don't like what you are listening to, the blame can only be put on the man in the mirror.


----------



## -42- (Feb 3, 2013)

4/4 hi-hat snare while the guitar just matches up with the kick. This is the most boring thing to listen to ever.


----------



## davidengel (Feb 3, 2013)

"Whats that? You've been playing guitar for 8 years but you don't know anything about music theory? You're obviously an incompetent musician."

Seriously dude, fuck off!


----------



## geoffshreds (Feb 3, 2013)

davidengel said:


> "Whats that? You've been playing guitar for 8 years but you don't know anything about music theory? You're obviously an incompetent musician."
> 
> Seriously dude, fuck off!


just because you don't know music theory doesnt mean youre not a good musician. thats pretty ignorant and a little pretentious. alot of people are naturally talented. Ive been playing guitar for 15 years and have never studied music theory..nor do i care to.


----------



## facepalm66 (Feb 3, 2013)

^ I partly agree, partly don't. it's impossible not to know anything in music theory during 8 years of playing.. Just.. pure magic.

On the other hand, I do enjoy the 'feel' players rather than 'must know every step what i'm doing' way more.
A blend is a perfection, probably.


----------



## davidengel (Feb 3, 2013)

geoffshreds said:


> just because you don't know music theory doesnt mean youre not a good musician. thats pretty ignorant and a little pretentious. alot of people are naturally talented. Ive been playing guitar for 15 years and have never studied music theory..nor do i care to.



Right? When people display that attitude towards me it doesn't influence me at all to learn any sort of theory.

Edit:
@facepalm66 - I know what you mean, I should say that I haven't "studied" music theory, and I do go by feel a lot more than going by the few scales that I know.


----------



## flint757 (Feb 3, 2013)

Well if you know what a fifth is or any scale/chord at all for that matter, by name or not, then you do know some theory. I never studied theory, but I know what a pentatonic scale is, the five modes, some chords, etc. That is a part of music theory.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 3, 2013)

Knowing music theory is not necessary per se, but it will make you understand many things. Besides, you are able to communicate to musicians anywhere and understand what they are doing. I personally think having a good grasp of theory can be very useful and nowadays, it kind of helps you get a gig or appear more professional.


----------



## blaaargh (Feb 3, 2013)

I don't see how telling a promoter or club owner that your songs are a 5/4 over 9/8 groove in F# phrygian dominant minor with a suspended 2 and flat 5 will help you get a gig at all. All they care about is how much you can draw, and if that's how you present your band, odds are you won't be packing the place. At the most, it might help you network with other musicians, which could conceivably get you an opening slot playing to 30 people who have no idea what any of that means, nor do they care.


----------



## piggins411 (Feb 3, 2013)

EDIT Never mind


----------



## spawnofthesith (Feb 3, 2013)

I sense high amounts of latent butthurt in this thread


----------



## NovaReaper (Feb 3, 2013)

fps said:


> I've covered a song from Slaughter Of The Soul in a band actually, and my favourite death metal bands are Cryptopsy, Decapitated, Nile and Cannibal Corpse.
> 
> Soooooooo.........



proving my point 

dig a little deeper and you might find bands that actually know what they're doing


----------



## Veldar (Feb 3, 2013)

NovaReaper said:


> proving my point
> 
> dig a little deeper and you might find bands that actually know what they're doing


 
You clearly haven't seen alex webster then.


----------



## ToMurderAMachine (Feb 3, 2013)

A guitar cliche that I can't stand? .... hmmm.... That Tosin guy? Yeah that guy blows... fuck him.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 3, 2013)

blaaargh said:


> I don't see how telling a promoter or club owner that your songs are a 5/4 over 9/8 groove in F# phrygian dominant minor with a suspended 2 and flat 5 will help you get a gig at all. All they care about is how much you can draw, and if that's how you present your band, odds are you won't be packing the place. At the most, it might help you network with other musicians, which could conceivably get you an opening slot playing to 30 people who have no idea what any of that means, nor do they care.



I am sorry you misunderstood my post. I meant to say, that when someone asks you to improvise something in a certain key, within a certain scale or mode, you should be able to do it. If you want to be a studio musician, you should be able to read music and understand what other pros tell you.


----------



## Alberto7 (Feb 3, 2013)

If you put together all the things mentioned in this thread, there'd just be no music that people liked.

... aaahh personal taste, you're such a funny and indisputably subjective thing.


----------



## edsped (Feb 3, 2013)

In regards to music theory, I do hate when people pull the whole "oh you don't like it? maybe you should learn some theory, n00b" thing. I've been seeing people do that with Nick Llerandi's solo for the Mayones contest, and of course with various prog/technical bands. I know plenty of theory, dude, and I know how to play guitar. Just because I don't like something that's theoretically and/or technically impressive or complex doesn't mean I can't comprehend it, I just don't think it sounds good.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 3, 2013)

That solo doesn`t sound like music. Chris should have won.


----------



## blaaargh (Feb 3, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> I am sorry you misunderstood my post. I meant to say, that when someone asks you to improvise something in a certain key, within a certain scale or mode, you should be able to do it. If you want to be a studio musician, you should be able to read music and understand what other pros tell you.


Ahh. Yeah that makes more sense. I thought you meant gig as in show, but yeah you're right that theory would help a lot in those applications. I can't read sheet music at all, so I really doubt I'd be a very good studio musician. I've never really been interested in anything like that, but I have a hell of a lot of respect for the people that can do that.


----------



## Aevolve (Feb 3, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Since you mention that it could bother you if people don't understand your lyrics, I'll point out that if you're writing these lyrics at anything other than the highest, most superficial of levels, they will be well over most peoples' heads. So if you write for people other than physicists, astronomers, engineers, etc., you may consider writing about more universally understood/felt topics.



Sorry if it was misconstrued, but it doesn't exactly bother me if people couldn't really grasp our lyrics, it's if they viewed them as a detriment to us. Regardless, I see what you're saying.


----------



## Trespass (Feb 3, 2013)

edsped said:


> In regards to music theory, I do hate when people pull the whole "oh you don't like it? maybe you should learn some theory, n00b" thing. I've been seeing people do that with Nick Llerandi's solo for the Mayones contest, and of course with various prog/technical bands. I know plenty of theory, dude, and I know how to play guitar. Just because I don't like something that's theoretically and/or technically impressive or complex doesn't mean I can't comprehend it, I just don't think it sounds good.



I find this perspective HILARIOUS.

I teach theory and composition, as well as advanced harmony.
Most progressive stuff sounds to me like a child who wants to sound sophisticated, so they go to a thesaurus and start inanely choosing complex up their words, so it sounds dense and complex.

Sorry, but "playing polyrhythms with jazzy harmony" isn't music. It's an exercise in regurgitating what 'cool theory' the writer knows.


----------



## SP1N3SPL1TT3R (Feb 4, 2013)

Deathcore breakdowns. You know they're going to be there by default.
Over used arpeggios.
Overly technical songs with no harmony or melody.
When a guitarist, exists as an alter ego, and acts like a tool onstage (eg Slash).


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## acrcmb (Feb 4, 2013)

I hate extravagant solo's, I don't mind some technical playing along the lines of what Tosin does where it's part of a song but having a long break just so the guitarist can show off annoys me it's like the musical equivalent of masturbation your hands are moving alot and you're the only one getting any pleasure.


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## fps (Feb 4, 2013)

NovaReaper said:


> proving my point
> 
> dig a little deeper and you might find bands that actually know what they're doing



No, proving that you were completely incorrect in the assumptions that you made in the first instance, and have made a fool of yourself. It's a cliche I don't like, I am not interested in digging deeper into the genre, I have been shown plenty of music by people who like that style and I find the harmonies used generic cliched and boring.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 4, 2013)

Trespass said:


> Sorry, but "playing polyrhythms with jazzy harmony" isn't music. It's an exercise in regurgitating what 'cool theory' the writer knows.



The ironic thing is, most people doing that have admitted to not knowing music theory.


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 4, 2013)

edsped said:


> In regards to music theory, I do hate when people pull the whole "oh you don't like it? maybe you should learn some theory, n00b" thing. I've been seeing people do that with Nick Llerandi's solo for the Mayones contest, and of course with various prog/technical bands. I know plenty of theory, dude, and I know how to play guitar. Just because I don't like something that's theoretically and/or technically impressive or complex doesn't mean I can't comprehend it, I just don't think it sounds good.


 


Althought knowing the theory behind something *may* help you appreciate it a little better, it doesn't make it sound any better.


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## sojourner (Feb 4, 2013)

Addison90 said:


> I hate when a metal band uses the occasional chromatic/outside notes, syncopation and odd time signatures, they get labeled as "jazz-metal"
> 
> This is jazz metal:




Thanks for mentioning my favorite band haha 
Lye By Mistake's guitarist (Josh Bauman) is a jazz guitar teacher. So that's not really surprising. I prefer his style compared to guitar players like Tosin Abasi or Ron Jarzombek to be honest

His improvisation vid:



There's a difference between 'jazz/fusion musicians who play metal' and 'metal heads who play fusion/jazz'..lol

Also check out Alex Machacek if you haven't already


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## guitareben (Feb 4, 2013)

sojourner said:


> Also check out Alex Machacek if you haven't already



+1


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## BornToLooze (Feb 4, 2013)

What's the deal with people talking about having 3 guitars because of Periphery? Because Skynyrd's been doing that since before Bulb was born.

But talking about theory and all that, people that think just because I can play something and tell if sounds good or not means I should be able to figure stuff out by ear.


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## NovaReaper (Feb 4, 2013)

fps said:


> No, proving that you were completely incorrect in the assumptions that you made in the first instance, and have made a fool of yourself. It's a cliche I don't like, I am not interested in digging deeper into the genre, I have been shown plenty of music by people who like that style and I find the harmonies used generic cliched and boring.



first of all, opeth and in flames aren't very far off from cannibal corpse or decapitated at all. i'm not bashing these bands at all as i used to listen to them as well, i even remember making that exact transition into listening to those slightly heavier bands back when i was around 14 or so.

i was indeed, after all, correct in my assumptions that you listen to entry level bands and blame the lack of musicality on the style itself. i could post a few examples of slightly more obscure bands with incredible senses of harmony if you'd like:




or am I wasting my time as you've completely denounced all death metal music with harmonized guitars?


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## Overtone (Feb 4, 2013)

"It's not the notes he plays... it's the notes he doesn't play."

When pop musicians incorporate really terrible sounding guitar... my cousin put on one of Rhianna's earlier albums and there was this metal guitar playing in a couple of songs that just sounded inexcusably bad. If they can process her voice to all fuck they can do better than a zoom pedal distortion sound and no speaker emulation. 

Even though Tom Quayle has awesome technique and is very fluid, and without doubt very able to "speak" melody as he wishes, almost every vid of him sounds like the same kinda noodling to the point where it counteracts his other qualities. Hard to describe but I feel like there are certain motif he uses ALL the time. 

People who think that everyone else should play the same gear as them.


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## benatat (Feb 4, 2013)

[rant=What Makes Me Angry]

These may have been said already, but I wanna contribute. These are things that just piss me off so much: (not really cliche but w/e, the thread has gone more general)


--I play a riff that sounds like typical periphery/djent stuff and someone says: "Wow, your just a rip-off, no talent, scene kid". I play that because it's what feels right to me. I enjoy playing it, am not producing nor trying to make money from it, and i don't give a FUCK if it's not as "original" as it could it! I like it, so I'm gonna play it. I'm not claiming that it's a brain child of myself; playing guitar is expressing myself, and I like what I play.

--People who say: "Metal is just noise", or similar stuff. Really? Well, you would be correct, it is indeed noise, but it sounds amazing, and just draws you into the music.

--People who listen to Metallica and such, and when I play for them some cool song by Periphery or Dream Theater or something, they say: "These vocals suck!", or "I know just what genre this is... Garbage!", or related stuff, when they just here a 5 second segment of it. Excuse me mister hypocrite? Why don't you tell me again how "Kirk Hammett is a God", and "Lars Ulrich is a great, technical drummer." (These are legit quotes from people I talk to)

--Music with boring riffs in like Drop E or something. For instance, All Shall Perish's newest album. It is so boring, and just so disappointing compared to something like Awaken the Dreamers. If your gonna play low, we actually want to HEAR and UNDERSTAND the notes, not hear flub-wub-wub-wub.

--Shitty deathcore singers. BMTH, Asking Alexandria, Behemoth, and all the other bands that give metal vocals a bad name. 

--Shitty drumming. Lars Ulrich. Nuff said.

--People who say that screaming takes No Talent, and that anyone can play metal. A direct quote from someone: "Metal is just for people with no musical understanding and fast fingers." May I introduce to you Dream Theater? And countless other metal bands?

--Djent Scene kids. I personally love djent, because it is just encompassing, and draws you into the music, but people who claim what they do is original, and go around saying: "How can I improve my tone?", "How many noise gates do I need?", and "Check out this Axe FX II! (Even though the patch I use sounds exactly like any typical metal amp)". You know what I'm talking about...

--People who get expensive ass gear when they suck at playing. We get it, your a white suburban kid who has rich parents. You have been playing for 2 years and as a result simply need a 4K+ guitar. 

--People who have no tolerance for other genres. I like EVERYTHING, except for Hip-Hop, Pop, rap, country, that type of stuff. I love Jazz, Metal, Classical, Reggae, Punk, you name it. I can listen to Buffalo Soldier, followed by Awaken the Dreamers, followed by Blue Monk, and not miss a beat, simply enjoying what I hear. Just because something is atypical to what you listen to, doesn't mean it's not bad, and certainly doesn't mean that you should denounce it.

[/rant]


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## Narrillnezzurh (Feb 4, 2013)

benatat said:


> --People who get expensive ass gear when they suck at playing. We get it, your a white suburban kid who has rich parents. You have been playing for 2 years and as a result simply need a 4K+ guitar.



I can sympathize with this, but it's very close to several thoroughly elitist sentiments such as "I deserve that gear more than you" and "only world-class musician's need custom gear." It'd be much more reasonable to complain about people thinking their expensive gear makes them better than they are.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 4, 2013)

benatat said:


> --Shitty deathcore singers. Behemoth, and all the other bands that give metal vocals a bad name.


since when has Behemoth ever been deathcore?

IMO Behemoth has some of the most angry and brutal sounding vocals of any bands out there

i really dont get how thats giving metal vocals a bad name


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## benatat (Feb 4, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> since when has Behemoth ever been deathcore?
> 
> IMO Behemoth has some of the most angry and brutal sounding vocals of any bands out there
> 
> i really dont get how thats giving metal vocals a bad name




I was saying essentially: All deathcore bands, Asking Alexandria, BMTH, and Behemoth singers. 

I just think that from the Behemoth songs I've listened to, it doesn't fit what I enjoy.


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## abandonist (Feb 4, 2013)

Wat?


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## benatat (Feb 4, 2013)

abandonist said:


> Wat?



what?


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## Trespass (Feb 4, 2013)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> > --People who get expensive ass gear when they suck at playing. We get it, your a white suburban kid who has rich parents. You have been playing for 2 years and as a result simply need a 4K+ guitar.
> 
> 
> I can sympathize with this, but it's very close to several thoroughly elitist sentiments such as "I deserve that gear more than you" and "only world-class musician's need custom gear." It'd be much more reasonable to complain about people thinking their expensive gear makes them better than they are.



Food for thought: Go to any gig that has a full-time session musician guitar player. 95% of their gear is standard fare. I don't know a good, professional guitar player here in Toronto that uses a boutique, high end solidbody guitar.


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## abandonist (Feb 4, 2013)

benatat said:


> what?



Singling out Behemoth with those other bands is _very_ odd.

They've been doing their thing for a long long time now. I don't really like Behemoth, but your grouping is curious.


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## benatat (Feb 4, 2013)

I was just putting down groups who's vocals just made me LITERALLY appalled. No offense to anyone who likes them, but I just don't find them enjoyable or engaging.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 4, 2013)

benatat said:


> I was saying essentially: All deathcore bands, Asking Alexandria, BMTH, and Behemoth singers.
> 
> I just think that from the Behemoth songs I've listened to, it doesn't fit what I enjoy.



i can see how AA and BMTH are giving metal a bad name but if anything Behemoth is making sure that people know metal is supposed to remain un-autotuned and poppy


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## abandonist (Feb 4, 2013)

Fair enough, taste is taste. it was just weird.


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## benatat (Feb 5, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> i can see how AA and BMTH are giving metal a bad name but if anything Behemoth is making sure that people know metal is supposed to remain un-autotuned and poppy



And if that's what you like, than fine. I personally prefer tighter screams, and I don't like what he's doing. It sounds like he's vomiting on the mic, IMO.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 5, 2013)

^ i can see what you mean, what do you normally listen to if you dont mind me asking?


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## benatat (Feb 5, 2013)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> ^ i can see what you mean, what do you normally listen to if you dont mind me asking?



Well, this is gonna sound very strange, but here's a list of just a few of my favorite groups (off the top of my head):

--August Burns Red
--All Shall Perish (simply for the guitars on Awaken the Dreamers and The Price of Existence)
--Bob Marley
--Charlie Parker
--Circus Maximus
--Count Basie Orchestra
--A Day To Remember (don't judge, I like them)
--Dream Theater
--Four Year Strong
--John Coltrane
--The Offspring
--Otep
--Miles Davis
--Pantera
--Periphery
--Rebelution
--Rise Against
--Rush
--Santana
--SOJA


Lol, very wide variety. Do you have any artist recommendations?


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## skisgaar (Feb 5, 2013)

benatat said:


> --Shitty deathcore singers. BMTH, *Asking Alexandria*, Behemoth, and all the other bands that give metal vocals a bad name.



lel "Shitty"


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## jonajon91 (Feb 5, 2013)

benatat said:


> [rant=What Makes Me Angry]
> 
> I like EVERYTHING, except for Hip-Hop, Pop, rap, country, that type of stuff.



If you don't like hip-hop, rap, pop(?) or country music, you are listening to the wrong stuff.


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## Overtone (Feb 5, 2013)

This thread.


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## InfinityCollision (Feb 5, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> ^ I partly agree, partly don't. it's impossible not to know anything in music theory during 8 years of playing.. Just.. pure magic.
> 
> On the other hand, I do enjoy the 'feel' players rather than 'must know every step what i'm doing' way more.
> A blend is a perfection, probably.





I'll submit "people who use an incorrect perception of theory to argue against its use" alongside what I originally came in here to post, "boring as shit bass lines". Unless you're writing in a highly structured style (fugue, highly structured 12-tone systems, etc), ie going beyond harmony/basic voice leading and digging into advanced counterpoint, structure, etc, "feel" and "theory" should be indistinguishable because the single largest component of theory is really _ear training_. Theory doesn't replace the sounds in your head, it expands that mental library.


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## brutalwizard (Feb 5, 2013)

I hate as a whole it seems guitar oriented musicians thrive on making negative comments. I have really been trying to tone it down personally since I saw this documentary thing on comedians and how they feel about negativity in there scene. It helped me realize Whether i like the music, their image, or how they conduct themselves sometimes, all musicians that participate in guitar dominated music work hard. They go through the same issues with writers block, They logged hundreds of thousands of hours practicing their instrument and songwriting skills.

Even the ones with less practice, and not so amazing songwriting At least they try. Also there is no real reason to be mad someone who cant play as well as you think they should owning nice gear. Either they worked hard for it, Or they were fortunate enough to have parents that worked hard enough to provide neat things for their kids.

And on the fact people saying writing certain music is easy, mostly the ones that boast about that they are in super prog ultra tech band. You need to realize just because you think that writing and playing Music like emmure is easy doesn't necessarily mean that the people that wrote it are dumb and shouldnt play guitar, and the are there to ruin your scene. There are the terrible ones that havent quite found there footing for sure, But let them work at it before you immediately shit on them.

TLR Cheer up and be glad metal music is a thing. And this negative thread bums me out.

(I know its a silly idea to subject myself to things that bum me out)


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## jimwratt (Feb 5, 2013)

I hate that the blues/rock crowd have made shredders so self-conscious about being "melodic" that now every shred solo starts with string bends. It's annoying because its so contrived and in a lot of ways, its a response to a tremendous amount of heckling.


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## jimwratt (Feb 5, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> People always make stupid Hendrix comments when they see my year round tan and find out I play guitar. Not sure if this applies, but it's stupid and annoying.



 I get that a lot too. What's tough about it for me is that I really love Jimi's music and he is definitely a major influence on me as a guitarist...but so is Steve Vai, Allan Holdsworth, Dimebag Darrell, Shawn Lane, Nile Rogers, Charlie Singleton, Jesse Johnson, Guthrie Govan, Akira Takasaki, Eddie Hazel, EVH, Ramon Ortiz, Greg Howe, etc. Nobody ever brings those guys up though. People really get into some scratch and sniff stuff sometimes. They're like "Hey its a black dude with a guitar, he must sound like Jimi Hendrix. Wait, he has dreads, BOB MARLEY! Can you sell me some weed?"

On the flip side, wouldn't it be cool if in 10 years, people were like "Hey, it's a black dude with a guitar. Must be Tosin Abasi."


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## karjim (Feb 5, 2013)

1) Two gay kids screaming at same time in a djent band...why? The first one's too bad ? Fire him dam it and get a good one !! not two goats please
2) THALL ... fuck you that doesn't exist in any language...Could you please use "Brutal" "Awesome" "Huge" "I love it" but please stop that stupid expression
So trendy I know but stop


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 5, 2013)

karjim said:


> 1) Two gay kids screaming at same time in a djent band...why? The first one's too bad ? Fire him dam it and get a good one !! not two goats please


Firstly, possibly just beating a dead horse but it's a dead horse that deserves to be beaten, are people really not over saying everything they don't like is "gay"? Or are you tired of homosexuality in djent, mostly when the number of gays in a band is over one?

If you're just talking about dual vocalists, then why not?

I love some bands with more than one vocalist because it tends to open up possibilities that wouldn't be possible with one. Also if the two have very different styles it can be really really cool.

See:

Sikth
Fellsilent
The Arusha Accord
Unexpect
Mastodon (I know they're not only vocalists but they split it pretty evenly)


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## tedtan (Feb 5, 2013)

brutalwizard said:


> I hate as a whole it seems guitar oriented musicians thrive on making negative comments. I have really been trying to tone it down personally since I saw this documentary thing on comedians and how they feel about negativity in there scene. It helped me realize Whether i like the music, their image, or how they conduct themselves sometimes, all musicians that participate in guitar dominated music work hard. They go through the same issues with writers block, They logged hundreds of thousands of hours practicing their instrument and songwriting skills.
> 
> Even the ones with less practice, and not so amazing songwriting At least they try. Also there is no real reason to be mad someone who cant play as well as you think they should owning nice gear. Either they worked hard for it, Or they were fortunate enough to have parents that worked hard enough to provide neat things for their kids.
> 
> ...


 


This. So much so that I'm quoting it so everyone can read it again.


----------



## Narrillnezzurh (Feb 5, 2013)

Trespass said:


> Food for thought: Go to any gig that has a full-time session musician guitar player. 95% of their gear is standard fare. I don't know a good, professional guitar player here in Toronto that uses a boutique, high end solidbody guitar.



That's very interesting, but why is that the case? If ever there was a musician that both deserved and could make use of high-end gear, it would be a competent session musician.

What exactly do you mean by "standard fare"?



brutalwizard said:


> I hate as a whole it seems guitar oriented musicians thrive on making negative comments.



Some more food for thought: Metal has outlasted a significant number of other contemporary trends in music without any noticeable lack of progress. At some point we have to ask ourselves, why is metal so stubborn in the face of ever-changing tastes?

I doubt the answer is the innate negativity of the metal community, but it's something worth thinking about


----------



## jimwratt (Feb 5, 2013)

tedtan said:


> This. So much so that I'm quoting it so everyone can read it again.



I agree. One thing I will say is that there is some finance bound up in all of that. Namely that there is SO little money to go around in our crumby corner of the music industry that our favorite acts rarely if ever have a financial profile on par with their artistic contributions. When we see other acts that are, at least seemingly, more lucrative, we feel almost insulted vicariously. Its compounded when it comes to other genres. In my mind, Allan Holdsworth should have more money than Lil Wayne; Tosin Abasi deserves to have T.I's money. It's hard to see people, who are objectively not as skilled as musicians, being more financially successful than those we feel are more entitled to that compensation. I think not recognizing that makes us turn negative in dealing with one another. It's like crabs in a barrel.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Feb 5, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> I get that a lot too. What's tough about it for me is that I really love Jimi's music and he is definitely a major influence on me as a guitarist...but so is Steve Vai, Allan Holdsworth, Dimebag Darrell, Shawn Lane, Nile Rogers, Charlie Singleton, Jesse Johnson, Guthrie Govan, Akira Takasaki, Eddie Hazel, EVH, Ramon Ortiz, Greg Howe, etc. Nobody ever brings those guys up though. People really get into some scratch and sniff stuff sometimes. They're like "Hey its a black dude with a guitar, he must sound like Jimi Hendrix. Wait, he has dreads, BOB MARLEY! Can you sell me some weed?"
> 
> On the flip side, wouldn't it be cool if in 10 years, people were like "Hey, it's a black dude with a guitar. Must be Tosin Abasi."



I have dreads and play a white RG8. Tosin comments, you say?

Ppl started making that comparison as soon as he gained a little fame and I entered the chat room here. 

We play nothing alike. Look nothing alike. 

Some ppl are just easily amused.


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## tedtan (Feb 5, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> I agree. One thing I will say is that there is some finance bound up in all of that. Namely that there is SO little money to go around in our crumby corner of the music industry that our favorite acts rarely if ever have a financial profile on par with their artistic contributions. When we see other acts that are, at least seemingly, more lucrative, we feel almost insulted vicariously. Its compounded when it comes to other genres. In my mind, Allan Holdsworth should have more money than Lil Wayne; Tosin Abasi deserves to have T.I's money. It's hard to see people, who are objectively not as skilled as musicians, being more financially successful than those we feel are more entitled to that compensation. I think not recognizing that makes us turn negative in dealing with one another. It's like crabs in a barrel.


 
I understand completely. Just realize that capitalism isn't based on talent, its based on providing something people will pay for and most people seem willing to pay for that type of stuff.


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## blaaargh (Feb 5, 2013)

Nykur_Myrkvi said:


> If you're just talking about dual vocalists, then why not?
> 
> I love some bands with more than one vocalist because it tends to open up possibilities that wouldn't be possible with one. Also if the two have very different styles it can be really really cool.
> 
> ...



I actually kinda agree with dude buddy on bands with two vocalists who both sound exactly the same. I'm looking at you, Vildjthallta. It's completely fucking pointless and adds nothing to the band's performance. Bands like SikTh and Rwake can pull it off cause their vocalists have very different styles, and when it's two dudes who also play instruments, it makes sense as well, cus one dude might not be able to play and yell at the same time for an entire set. But if they're not doing anything but yelling, and you can't distinguish one yeller from another, then I'd say your band needs a strong dose of getdafuckouttahere.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 5, 2013)

benatat said:


> [rant=What Makes Me Angry]
> --Shitty deathcore singers. BMTH, Asking Alexandria, Behemoth, and all the other bands that give metal vocals a bad name.
> [/rant]


 
Are you kidding me? Are you comparing stuff like Asking Alexandria and Behemoth? Behemoth is not deathcore, and Nergals voice is powerful and you can hear words quite clearly, plus actually Nergal is quite praised so i dont know how would he give metal a bad name.


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## flint757 (Feb 5, 2013)

tedtan said:


> I understand completely. Just realize that capitalism isn't based on talent, its based on providing something people will pay for and most people seem willing to pay for that type of stuff.



Kind of off topic, but that is why I find it hilarious when politicians say that poor people are lazy. Hard work and a good ethic guarantee very little in life. Luck and demand determine everything.


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## Tyler (Feb 5, 2013)

ambient sound to non stop breakdown with some notes thrown in for the heck of it.


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## tedtan (Feb 5, 2013)

flint757 said:


> Kind of off topic, but that is why I find it hilarious when politicians say that poor people are lazy. Hard work and a good ethic guarantee very little in life. Luck and demand determine everything.


 
That, along with who you know, goes a *LONG* way towards acheiving "success" in life and career (regardless of the career).


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 5, 2013)

tedtan said:


> I understand completely. Just realize that capitalism isn't based on talent, its based on providing something people will pay for and most people seem willing to pay for anything.


 
Fix'd


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 5, 2013)

karjim said:


> 1) Two gay kids screaming at same time in a djent band...why? The first one's too bad ? Fire him dam it and get a good one !! not two goats please
> 2) THALL ... fuck you that doesn't exist in any language...Could you please use "Brutal" "Awesome" "Huge" "I love it" but please stop that stupid expression
> So trendy I know but stop


 
This guy hates Vildhjarta ^ Coulda just came out it said it man,


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## InfinityCollision (Feb 5, 2013)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Some more food for thought: Metal has outlasted a significant number of other contemporary trends in music without any noticeable lack of progress. At some point we have to ask ourselves, why is metal so stubborn in the face of ever-changing tastes?


I'd argue that physics and instrument construction contribute at least as much as the people involved with the genre. Guitars play in an approximation of equal temperament, which is an approximation of the harmonic series... And then you throw a ton of distortion on top of it. This really limits what you can do in a vertical, harmonic sense without compromising the concept of "metal" or making your ears bleed. There's still room for growth in a more horizontal sense (song structure), but the limitations of the genre mean that those who would push those boundaries are less likely to explore it as a means of creative expression as opposed to incorporating elements of it into less limiting genres.


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## tedtan (Feb 5, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Fix'd


 
Then where're my riches for my tunes?!?!?!


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## Narrillnezzurh (Feb 5, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> I'd argue that physics and instrument construction contribute at least as much as the people involved with the genre. Guitars play in an approximation of equal temperament, which is an approximation of the harmonic series... And then you throw a ton of distortion on top of it. This really limits what you can do in a vertical, harmonic sense without compromising the concept of "metal" or making your ears bleed. There's still room for growth in a more horizontal sense (song structure), but the limitations of the genre mean that those who would push those boundaries are less likely to explore it as a means of creative expression as opposed to incorporating elements of it into less limiting genres.



I don't know if you understood me correctly. I'm saying that metal has managed not only to survive without mainstream support, but to maintain forward progress while doing so. I'm not saying metal is resistant to change, quite the opposite.

And guitars don't play in an _approximation_ of equal temperament, they play in equal temperament. It's an approximation in the sense that intonation will never be perfect due to physical limitations, but no instrument is capable of perfect intonation. In fact, I'd actually argue that equal temperament is _more_ conducive to harmonic growth than non-equal temperaments, given that you can expand in any direction without significantly exacerbating the inaccuracies inherent to the temperament. The same cannot be said for just intonation or Pythagorean tuning.


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## spawnofthesith (Feb 5, 2013)

People complaining about bass drops must not have a sub in their car


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## InfinityCollision (Feb 5, 2013)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> I don't know if you understood me correctly. I'm saying that metal has managed not only to survive without mainstream support, but to maintain forward progress while doing so. I'm not saying metal is resistant to change, quite the opposite.


I see. Different perspectives, I suppose. There have been developments over the years, but I feel that the most significant ones have been largely timbral/textural (different vocal styles etc) and that even that has been noticeably lacking in recent years.



> And guitars don't play in an _approximation_ of equal temperament, they play in equal temperament. *It's an approximation in the sense that intonation will never be perfect due to physical limitations,*


Bingo. I wouldn't say "never" though - we're getting closer. FGN's curved frets come to mind.



> but no instrument is capable of perfect intonation.


Fretless stringed instruments and the entire woodwind family come to mind. 



> In fact, I'd actually argue that equal temperament is _more_ conducive to harmonic growth than non-equal temperaments, given that you can expand in any direction without significantly exacerbating the inaccuracies inherent to the temperament. The same cannot be said for just intonation or Pythagorean tuning.


I don't recall saying anything in regards to alternative temperaments, only the limitations of 12-TET within the context of metal. My preference, if anything, would be "seasoned" 12-TET, ie an equal-temperament backbone but with sufficient flexibility to bring notes into just-intonation tuning relative to any other given pitch as needed. Not really practical for fretted guitar, but it's quite lovely in a classical band or orchestra context. Fretless guitars can pull it off if you've got the ear for it, but in most cases it would be impractical due to fretted counterparts or a keyboard player.


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## tedtan (Feb 5, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> Fretless stringed instruments...


 
Q: What is a minor second interval?

A: Two fretless stringed instruments playing "in unison".


----------



## abandonist (Feb 5, 2013)

When people get too involved in the academics of sound rather than just letting sound be sound.

"The problem is that instruments are square, and music is round."
-Tom Waits


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## rythmic_pulses (Feb 5, 2013)

abandonist said:


> When people get too involved in the academics of sound rather than just letting sound be sound.
> 
> "The problem is that instruments are square, and music is round."
> -Tom Waits



Like when people become frequency freaks in the studio?
"I knew we should have used 600Hz in the low mids instead of 800Hz, it totally clashes with the high mids at 2.40KHz"

I can be like that sometimes, but not as exaggerated as what I posted above


----------



## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 5, 2013)

blaaargh said:


> I actually kinda agree with dude buddy on bands with two vocalists who both sound exactly the same. I'm looking at you, Vildjthallta. It's completely fucking pointless and adds nothing to the band's performance. Bands like SikTh and Rwake can pull it off cause their vocalists have very different styles, and when it's two dudes who also play instruments, it makes sense as well, cus one dude might not be able to play and yell at the same time for an entire set. But if they're not doing anything but yelling, and you can't distinguish one yeller from another, then I'd say your band needs a strong dose of getdafuckouttahere.


Well, yes but saying bands with two vocalists, whether screaming or not, suck because there are bad examples is kinda pushing it.

I know bands with two guitarists where both always do the same thing = Bands with two guitarists suck.

I know it's not really a fair comparison but still. You get my point.

also, I had no idea Vildhjarta had two vocalists. Haven't really listened to them anyway though.


----------



## Narrillnezzurh (Feb 5, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> Fretless stringed instruments and the entire woodwind family come to mind.
> 
> I don't recall saying anything in regards to alternative temperaments, only the limitations of 12-TET within the context of metal. My preference, if anything, would be "seasoned" 12-TET, ie an equal-temperament backbone but with sufficient flexibility to bring notes into just-intonation tuning relative to any other given pitch as needed. Not really practical for fretted guitar, but it's quite lovely in a classical band or orchestra context. Fretless guitars can pull it off if you've got the ear for it, but in most cases it would be impractical due to fretted counterparts or a keyboard player.



Fretless stringed instruments are subject to human error, and even the highest quality woodwind instruments aren't manufactured perfectly. It's true that we're talking minute margins of error, but all manufacturing error will eventually be eclipsed by human error anyways.

And I realize you weren't comparing 12-TET to other temperaments. I just don't think temperament is a limiting factor in the harmonic growth of metal, and I thought it was worth noting that equal temperament is actually _more_ suited to harmonic growth than any of our other options.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Feb 5, 2013)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Fretless stringed instruments are subject to human error, and even the highest quality woodwind instruments aren't manufactured perfectly. It's true that we're talking minute margins of error, but all manufacturing error will eventually be eclipsed by human error anyways.


Wind instruments actually tend to be slightly out of tune anyway, even if very high quality. My bassoon for instance is out of tune on certain pitches across its entire range (Bb1 to E5 or so). Sharp on some, flat on others. These tendencies are common to all Heckel-style bassoons, not just my specific horn. Unlike most winds, pulling in or out on the mouthpiece (well, the bocal) is inadvisable, though you can use different bocals to adjust broad tendencies. I'm in tune when I play though, because I learned those tendencies and how to adjust for them. Perfectly in tune? Maybe not, but consistently within a couple of cents. I can adjust my target to suit the current note and chord as well - how else would I achieve that "seasoned" tuning I spoke of before? I will say that we don't employ it for every chord - the pieces can run quite long and the benefits tend to go unnoticed in brief chords - but big major chords and such? Certainly.

The human error you highlight is much smaller than the difference between just and equal temperaments for most of the non-perfect intervals. Only the major second and minor seventh are of comparable distance at less and more ~four cents, respectively, whereas the rest exceed ten cents difference. While it's true that the human ear is generally capable of accepting these discrepancies in intonation, distortion greatly magnifies the issue.



> And I realize you weren't comparing 12-TET to other temperaments. I just don't think temperament is a limiting factor in the harmonic growth of metal, and I thought it was worth noting that equal temperament is actually _more_ suited to harmonic growth than any of our other options.



I do prefer 12-TET to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning, but the fact remains that complex chords are less palateable with the gain turned up and the discrepancies between 12-TET and actual harmonic intervals are a major factor in that. This was the origin of my interest in the fretless guitar - the lack of frets provides, among infinite other possibilities, the option of mixing just and equal temperaments to create more consonant chords with an equal-tempered framework.


----------



## Narrillnezzurh (Feb 5, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> Wind instruments actually tend to be slightly out of tune anyway, even if very high quality. My bassoon for instance is out of tune on certain pitches across its entire range (Bb1 to E5 or so). Sharp on some, flat on others. These tendencies are common to all Heckel-style bassoons, not just my specific horn. Unlike most winds, pulling in or out on the mouthpiece (well, the bocal) is inadvisable, though you can use different bocals to adjust broad tendencies. I'm in tune when I play though, because I learned those tendencies and how to adjust for them. Perfectly in tune? Maybe not, but consistently within a couple of cents. I can adjust my target to suit the current note and chord as well - how else would I achieve that "seasoned" tuning I spoke of before? I will say that we don't employ it for every chord - the pieces can run quite long and the benefits tend to go unnoticed in brief chords - but big major chords and such? Certainly.
> 
> The human error you highlight is much smaller than the difference between just and equal temperaments for most of the non-perfect intervals. Only the major second and minor seventh are of comparable distance at less and more ~four cents, respectively, whereas the rest exceed ten cents difference. While it's true that the human ear is generally capable of accepting these discrepancies in intonation, distortion greatly magnifies the issue.
> 
> I do prefer 12-TET to just intonation or Pythagorean tuning, but the fact remains that complex chords are less palateable with the gain turned up and the discrepancies between 12-TET and actual harmonic intervals are a major factor in that. This was the origin of my interest in the fretless guitar - the lack of frets provides, among infinite other possibilities, the option of mixing just and equal temperaments to create more consonant chords with an equal-tempered framework.



I agree with all of this to an extent. Just keep in mind that guitars are not (as of yet) capable of "seasoned" equal temperament within an acceptable margin of error, so while 12-TET may have its flaws it's certainly the most versatile tuning system available to us with regard to harmonic growth.

And my mention of human error was more referring to the eventualities of manufacturing precision, not the discrepancies between various temperaments.


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## Overtone (Feb 5, 2013)

This conversation reminded me of when Data plays violin. His intonation is inhumanly good! I think now my album for the evening has been decided... Kronos Quartet plays Philip Glass!


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## guitareben (Feb 6, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Ban in 3,2,1...
> 
> Back on topic: I think a sweet-sounding note with a soulful vibrato is worth more than a gazillion notes played on some Ibanez axe. Give me Santana over Becker or Malmsteen any day.



Actually Malmsteen has some wicked Vibrato ^^


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## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 6, 2013)

Indeed it is, but it's too wide for my taste. Vai has the best vibrato out there.


----------



## jehu12141987 (Feb 6, 2013)

Anyone mention the good ol "sling the guitar around your neck to show how awesome you are" trick? I just want to kick nads when i see that.


----------



## groverj3 (Feb 6, 2013)

Blues nazis


----------



## jimwratt (Feb 6, 2013)

Stickers on guitars


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## hairychris (Feb 7, 2013)

spawnofthesith said:


> People complaining about bass drops must not have a sub in their car


I don't have a car, fwiw, but I do have a good hifi at home.

It's still lame as fuck.


----------



## wankerness (Feb 7, 2013)

WTF is a bass drop outside of the context of dubstep, does anyone have an example of this handy?


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## InfinityCollision (Feb 7, 2013)

There's a few spread through the Strapping Young Lad catalog. Shitstorm comes to mind.

EDIT: few seconds after here http://youtu.be/xm-eXzMdfro?t=2m55s


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## TheBloodstained (Feb 7, 2013)

Bad production... I seriously can't enjoy listening to something that isn't really well produced, and I know this is a matter of taste!
On the other hand I've bought albums purely because I like the production and loves listening to that specific production, like After The Burial - In Dreams and Green Day - American Idiot. I love these albums today, but it was the production which made me give them a thorough listen! 

Shrill, muddy and/or overly saturated highgain guitars is a no-go for me, which means a lot of classic death, grind and black metal is off limit area for me. I like clarity to the extreme (...and I guess that's why I fell so instantly in love with Periphery?)


----------



## SerratedSkies (Feb 7, 2013)

@thread/op

Pinch Harmonics. Am I the only person who hates them? Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread already.


----------



## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 7, 2013)

Power chords.



Jk.

Overusing the phrygian dominant mode.


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## Captain_Awesome (Feb 7, 2013)

If we took everything out of songs that people hated in this thread, we'd be left with silence.


----------



## tedtan (Feb 7, 2013)

^ Captain_Awesome

True, but for everyone who hates it here, several other people like it, too. They're just not in this thread - you only get one side of it here.


----------



## flint757 (Feb 7, 2013)

Captain_Awesome said:


> If we took everything out of songs that people hated in this thread, we'd be left with silence.



Silence is overrated. It's all about the wall of sound don't you know.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 7, 2013)

Someone should make a list of all these cliches and write a song that includes ALL of them. Now that would be amazing.


----------



## jonajon91 (Feb 9, 2013)

So someone would scream breakdown before a huge pinch harmonic with bad vibrato, while the rest of the band chug (djent) some time signature rhythms outside the twelve tone equal temprement before a huge guitar sweep solo that goes on for five minutes before fading out into someone repeating the word 'Thall!'


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## blaaargh (Feb 9, 2013)

And instead of a bass guitar, it'd be nothing but bass drops


----------



## redskyharbor (Feb 9, 2013)

FAS Modern. Especially in blatent Periphery rip-offs.


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 9, 2013)

SerratedSkies said:


> @thread/op
> 
> Pinch Harmonics. Am I the only person who hates them? Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread already.



Well, I don't mind them when they are used in moderation, but when they get to the Zakk Wylde level they just become obnoxious.


----------



## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 9, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> This guy hates Vildhjarta ^ Coulda just came out it said it man,



Obviously hates Volumes as well.


----------



## Basti (Feb 9, 2013)

Bands that mix clean 'AIC-reminiscent' vocals with screams and growls. I DID NOT ASK FOR THE VEGETARIAN OPTION.


----------



## wankerness (Feb 10, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> There's a few spread through the Strapping Young Lad catalog. Shitstorm comes to mind.
> 
> EDIT: few seconds after here Strapping Young Lad Shitstorm - YouTube



Ah, so basically huge bass explosion sound effect that would be used in a trailer for something terrible like Transformers. Thanks, I guess I can't remember hearing that anywhere but in Devin Townsend stuff and I never really noticed it even there since he's got so much other studio wankery going on. Now I"ll probably get really distracted by it!


----------



## fps (Feb 10, 2013)

Basti said:


> Bands that mix clean 'AIC-reminiscent' vocals with screams and growls.



Absolutely. I hate bands with vocalists who have two *disciplines*, apart from Opeth. Just drives me nuts that they have their *scream* sound and *clean* sound, and nothing AT ALL in between, where the grit, guts and genuine emotion should be.


----------



## heregoesnothing (Feb 20, 2013)

Addison90 said:


> I hate when a metal band uses the occasional chromatic/outside notes, syncopation and odd time signatures, they get labeled as "jazz-metal"
> 
> This is jazz metal:






Experimorph said:


> I find it funny that every guitarist's soloing is called jazz or fusion influenced these days when their soloing is barely ever played on intricate chord changes or otherwise mode based.





Trespass said:


> edsped said:
> 
> 
> > In regards to music theory, I do hate when people pull the whole "oh you don't like it? maybe you should learn some theory, n00b" thing. I've been seeing people do that with Nick Llerandi's solo for the Mayones contest, and of course with various prog/technical bands. I know plenty of theory, dude, and I know how to play guitar. Just because I don't like something that's theoretically and/or technically impressive or complex doesn't mean I can't comprehend it, I just don't think it sounds good.
> ...





sojourner said:


> There's a difference between 'jazz/fusion musicians who play metal' and 'metal heads who play fusion/jazz'..lol


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## Dan Halen (Feb 20, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Power chords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, not an over use of it for me, but more or less stop playing it the same way every time. just fucking straight through the scale EVERYTIME. it's not a path you need to follow, it's a marker system so you can spice things up.

I mean you don't even have to use Multiple scales, just do sojmething different with it. Like After the Burial with "Cursing Akhenaten".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TZRXjipy06s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Okay, maybe not everyone likes them but at least they try to be inventive with the stuff yuh know. and yah I know it's not all Phyrg Dom


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## m3l-mrq3z (Feb 21, 2013)

Nice embedding skills, man.


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## Danukenator (Feb 21, 2013)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Nice embedding skills, man.





Here's the video. Just an FYI, you have to use the forum code to embed videos. There's a couple threads on it if you google it.


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## WillVinson (May 4, 2014)

When someone who can't play a solo/shred says "That guy is just paling scales". Well no ....ing shit!!!


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## 3trv5u (May 4, 2014)

benatat said:


> --Shitty deathcore singers. BMTH, Asking Alexandria, Behemoth, and all the other bands that give metal vocals a bad name.








Did you just call this dude "shitty deathcore singer"? 



Suburb kids with insanely expensive gear playing in a shitty metalcore band


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## DXL (May 4, 2014)

I hate it when the bass is just like the rhythm guitar's bitch, like come on bassist don't just play the same exact thing he's playing in a lower octave, i wanna hear some steve harris or justin chancellor stuff


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## AngstRiddenDreams (May 4, 2014)

^Sometime that helps a lot though. Look at Meshuggah, without the bass doubling he rhythm it'd be terribly thin sounding. The bass miming the guitar make their sound HUGE. 
Though I do agree it is a bit overused. In all of the songs I've recorded it's been this way, too inexperienced in bass playing to know what "works".


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## JohnIce (May 4, 2014)

WillVinson said:


> When someone who can't play a solo/shred says "That guy is just paling scales". Well no ....ing shit!!!



I hate when that actually happens, although more often than not it's actually _a_ scale (singular) and they're just playing it in as many places as they can.


----------



## ZeroS1gnol (May 4, 2014)

Breakdowns in anything '-core' 

(except for the Acacia Strain, which basically is a breakdown only band  )


----------



## rectifryer (May 4, 2014)

Insincere, uninspired music. Pretty much everything in this thread can be done tastefully but, more often than not, ends up being abused. 

I love shredding, but I don't like most shredders.

I love polyrithyms, but I don't like most djent.

I love breakdowns, But I don't like most core bands

I love great singers, but I don't like most prog singers.

etc.

The point I am getting at, is that most bands are one trick ponies that fail to expand their toolbox to the point of being capable of writing a song. I know that sounds harsh, but I remember a time when bands were expected to do all of the above and do it well without awkward transitions. The only difference is that today everyone is playing ERGs and singers are just another rythmic tool. 

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!


----------



## JustMac (May 4, 2014)

Wearing ANY kind of dress-up 

Makeup or facepaint

The CrabJump/CrabHeadbang thing
Breakdowns

clean guitars that drone in the middle of djent songs 

Really AmericanEmo clean vocals

Doing a bandpic by looking glum or 'metal' in dark clothes in the middle of a foresti


----------



## oompa (May 4, 2014)

Too much Djent and Polyrhythms. It is so obviously mal-placed and forced sometimes I just wonder: when did metal become figure skating, where there are a few moves you have to include in your run to pass.

And by now nearly all the mathematical combos of pauses and notes in 3-7/4 have been covered  It seems so desperate and it just oozes of non-creativity. It was cool with Meshuggah and Fear Factory about 20 years ago, now it is a cliché imo. Get rid and start making something unique and creative instead.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream (May 4, 2014)

Several things annoy me, the most annoying are in the composition of songs or solos. A glaring example, when a song takes a sudden stylistic detour that was not at the least expected or implied. To me this is anticlimactic, and to borrow a Wooten's phrase, it's like breaking the groove, you just don't do it  

A more specific example of this situation, and it's actually from one of my beloved guitar heroes, John Petrucci. In this one song, damage control, out of his solo album, here:


The song starts with the most evil, sickest sounding dissonant melody I've ever heard, developing really nicely until the middle section, when I suddenly feel like being hit in the face by a truck (check at 5:23 in youtube video) with a straight AC/DC, ZZTop, hillbilly section. I can bet real money it was inspired by Steve Morse, but I digress. Without this silly middle interlude, the song could have been easily the sickest I've ever heard from JP.

This reminds me a little bit with the ending to Rush's "La villa strangiato", check at 6:15 mark, where they over indulge themselves on one of the licks that I thought sounds silly and it completely contradicts, even negates, the mood of the song up to that point IMHO. This song has, IMHO, Alex Lifeson's best solo, and aside form the ending, could have been just epic.


----------



## TheKindred (May 4, 2014)

Aevolve said:


> ...we love physics and astronomy, and tend to write a lot of lyrics about them.





tedtan said:


> ...you may consider writing about more universally understood/felt topics.



How much more Universal could he get?


----------



## Insinfier (May 4, 2014)

This thread makes me feel bad about liking metal.


----------



## InfinityCollision (May 4, 2014)

WillVinson said:


> When someone who can't play a solo/shred says "That guy is just paling scales". Well no ....ing shit!!!





There is so much more you can do besides just "playing scales".


----------



## Given To Fly (May 4, 2014)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Several things annoy me, the most annoying are in the composition of songs or solos. A glaring example, when a song takes a sudden stylistic detour that was not at the least expected or implied. To me this is anticlimactic, and to borrow a Wooten's phrase, it's like breaking the groove, you just don't do it
> 
> A more specific example of this situation, and it's actually from one of my beloved guitar heroes, John Petrucci. In this one song, damage control, out of his solo album, here:
> 
> ...




Same thoughts exactly! I'm glad he got Jaws of Life right!


----------



## Necris (May 5, 2014)

Needlessly complex riffs that seem to serve to stroke the ego of the guitarist rather than the song itself. Sometimes simpler _is _better. 

Lots of guitarists have this problem and I'm certainly not immune to it, occasionally I'll catch myself and dial things back a bit.


----------



## gh0Zt (May 5, 2014)

Sweep picking.. THERE ARE OTHER TECNIQUES IM JUST SAYING

And screaming in a song coz you know your band doesnt know how to play heavy enough


----------



## coreysMonster (May 5, 2014)

Random-ass chromatic solos.

I'm looking at you, Kerry King.

EDIT: Also, not playing the solos live the way they are on the album. I love Meshuggah and Fred Thordendal, but man the solos he plays live sound so awkward sometimes.


----------



## Abaddon9112 (May 5, 2014)

I don't get why so much of the "melodic" metal out there is based around the same old cliche chord progressions. Example: there's a progression I hear in a lot of metalcore that I'm sure most are familiar with. It's basically the same progression as the intro to the Offspring song "The Kids Aren't Alright", only played on the ubiquitous Schecter tuned to Drop C. I've heard that, or some variation, SOOOO many times that I can't bear to listen to it anymore, and will immediately skip to the next song if it's in a song on Spotify or Pandora or whatever. It's what I instantly associate with "melodic" metal whenever someone mentions that term, and is the main reason why I dislike that genre as much as I do.


----------



## groverj3 (May 5, 2014)

People who dislike melodic music because it doesn't have enough "br00tz" for them.

People who dislike shreddy solos, even when there's melody in them and they're well composed (blues nazis, etc.).

People who prefer their music to be produced like shit. I understand nostalgia for a band and sometimes their early work isn't well produced, but I'll never get why some people actually dislike clear production.

People who say "serve the song" all the time. Sure, you don't need to draw attention to yourself as the guitarist constantly, however, if you can play well... then play well and blow people's minds. I think this is mostly from jealousy that most people can't play very well.

I think I just hate people. Just my opinions of course.

edit: I just realized I had already posted in this thread over a year ago


----------



## wat (May 5, 2014)

*Z----0-3-2-1-2-1-0-1--
Q----0-3-2-1-2-1-0-1--
Z----0-3-2-1-2-1-0-1--

*^^^^^^These type riffs, usually palm muted. Just terrible. If it's diminished chords it's even worse. Such trendy, awful bullshit.


*95% of sweep picking* just sounds dumb

*95% of tapping* just sounds dumb

*Pentatonic shredding*- because_ fewer_ available note choices is better!  Thanks kirk hammett

*Overuse of 3rds harmonies*- there are more ways to harmonize than just using major and minor 3rds, just sayin' 

*Chugga-chugga, meedley meedley*


----------



## TheHandOfStone (May 5, 2014)

*Sus2 chords* - Technically they're fine, but people who don't understand music theory use them as a crutch for unleashing canned melodic tension. Also, because they're so ambiguous, people just chain them together in these exotic-but-not-really-exotic passages we've all heard by now. The slightly less annoying variation is to throw in some easy 153 minor and/or major chord voicings if you're in drop tuning.

*Unneccessary Tapping Fills* - When you run out of morse code patterns to chug through, and you still want to sound ca-rayyy-zeee, just weedle out some dissonant nonsense. Be sure to have some really odd note groupings that some double-blind experiment confirmed as the most annoying permutation possible. Also, make sure you stay as far away from "keys," "modes," or "scales" as possible.

*Diminished Scales/Arpeggios* - The former is also known as the Octatonic Scale. These things are cool in moderation, but goddamn it, people just use them as the backbone of entire songs. I really don't like this: nothing ever resolves, everything just stays at MAXIMUM TENSION all the time, which of course means there's no tension. Death metal has been churning out these style riffs for almost 30 years now - it's time to find a new scale to 

*Tritone Breakdowns* -


----------



## Asrial (May 5, 2014)

I love me some seriously heavy riffing, but a lot of guitarists nowadays seem to confuse and/or mix "groove" with "riff".
Also, I know you can do tappy noodly stuff and you listened to one Allan Holdsworth album, but your binary "riff" (which isn't even a riff) isn't getting better by a small phrygian tap-noodle.
Lastly, I know it might hurt your artistic merit, but can you PLEASE add a common theme to your pieces? I get you like to be prog, but there's a reason the big league guys are so memorable; they got a memorable, common theme in their songs! Not saying chorus, just a "repeated element" in some sense, like a sequence of riffs or a repeated phrase.


----------



## InHiding (May 5, 2014)

InfinityCollision said:


> There is so much more you can do besides just "playing scales".



I would assume that when people say that they mean staying within a single scale (when background allows you to switch) and mostly playing scale patterns progressing up or down, not really utilizing stuff like bends or vibratos to make it more interesting. Just guessing though.


----------



## bschmidt (May 5, 2014)

for me its sweep picking. sure its a tricky show-boaty technique, but the do-weedle-do sound it makes adds nothing 99.998% of the time to a song.

secondly, excessive wah pedal. Thanks kirk hammett.


----------



## tedtan (May 5, 2014)

TheKindred said:


> How much more Universal could he get?


----------



## blaaargh (May 5, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> People who prefer their music to be produced like shit. I understand nostalgia for a band and sometimes their early work isn't well produced, but I'll never get why some people actually dislike clear production.
> 
> People who say "serve the song" all the time. Sure, you don't need to draw attention to yourself as the guitarist constantly, however, if you can play well... then play well and blow people's minds. I think this is mostly from jealousy that most people can't play very well.



When people say serve the song it doesnt mean dont play fast. it just means make it enjoyable. Compare Brain Drill and Origin, for example. Both have crazy technical guitar parts, but Brain Drill is unlistenable compared to Origin because the guys in Origin know how to write songs with more going on than 250bpm meedleys.

Regarding production, its all about what fits. Sometimes if you've got ugly, grimy music you want ugly, grimy production to go along with the atmosphere you're trying to create. I personally tend to prefer those styles of music, and I'm not as interested in styles like tech death which tend toward super polished production - not necessarily just because of the production, I just don't find the music that compelling, though I'm sure production has a role in that.


----------



## JustMac (May 5, 2014)

I'm curious, what band/s would be accepted by most people participating in this thread then? That is to say, what bands eschew the negative points brought up here? 

NOT trolling, I really want to hear this


----------



## Jarmake (May 5, 2014)

I'm quite sure this thread gave me a cancer.

The thing I hate the most is closed mindedness.


----------



## tomsargent (May 5, 2014)

JustMac said:


> I'm curious, what band/s would be accepted by most people participating in this thread then? That is to say, what bands eschew the negative points brought up here?
> 
> NOT trolling, I really want to hear this



Oddly enough, I would say that most things in this thread would be accepted by most people participating in this thread. It seems that everybody's dislikes makes an exhaustive list in the middle of a venn diagram. However, everyone who contributed to this thread each has their own likes that other's listed as dislikes. Somebody earlier stated they hate tritone breakdowns, whereas I enjoy them. I can't stand Korn, but I'm sure someone here appreciates them.

TL;DR - For everyone that dislikes something, someone else enjoys it. Therefore just make the music you like to hear!


----------



## JustMac (May 5, 2014)

What is a tritone breakdown? Is it just playing a b5 power chord in a breakdown-y way?


----------



## tomsargent (May 5, 2014)

JustMac said:


> What is a tritone breakdown? Is it just playing a b5 power chord in a breakdown-y way?



I'm pretty sure that's what is going on. Most of the time I hear it, the band is playing a drop D style tuning. After doing a 0000 000 000 variety breakdown, they will do a voicing like such:
E|-
B|-
G|-
D|-0-
A|-0- < b5 right there
D|-1-

I sometimes like it, sometimes don't. However, it's not on my list of 'things I hate every time I hear it.'

I just found a video on Youtube exemplifying just this sort of thing. Haha, you will probably hate this (listen @ 1.30)


----------



## EvA (May 5, 2014)

2:47 

Edit: is also the time you posted


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## JustMac (May 5, 2014)

tomsargent said:


> I just found a video on Youtube exemplifying just this sort of thing. Haha, you will probably hate this (listen @ 1.30)



That's a parody...right?....RIGHT!?


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## AuroraTide (May 5, 2014)

When bands want to record in a live setting... If I'm paying for studio time it better wind up with a damn near perfect version of the songs!


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## Alex Kenivel (May 5, 2014)

I don't enjoy music where the guitar "dominates" any other instrument. Now if there were a band that were to dominate each other using their instruments, that would be kinda cool, but I'd be more interested in their live performance rather than their audio. 

I dislike how guitar "dominates" heavy music in the first place.


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## NickS (May 5, 2014)

tomsargent said:


>





I have heard of this band, but this is the first time I have really listened to one of their songs. As said before, 2:47. That is what I hate in "metal".


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## groverj3 (May 6, 2014)

tomsargent said:


>




This is comically bad. It's probably the sort of stuff that the scene kids back in high school jerked to.


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## groverj3 (May 6, 2014)

blaaargh said:


> When people say serve the song it doesnt mean dont play fast. it just means make it enjoyable. Compare Brain Drill and Origin, for example. Both have crazy technical guitar parts, but Brain Drill is unlistenable compared to Origin because the guys in Origin know how to write songs with more going on than 250bpm meedleys.
> 
> Regarding production, its all about what fits. Sometimes if you've got ugly, grimy music you want ugly, grimy production to go along with the atmosphere you're trying to create. I personally tend to prefer those styles of music, and I'm not as interested in styles like tech death which tend toward super polished production - not necessarily just because of the production, I just don't find the music that compelling, though I'm sure production has a role in that.



That's not the usage that I'm complaining about. Lots of people use the phrase whenever anyone plays something that's faster than eighth notes or uses notes outside the pentatonic 

Regarding the production. I understand your opinion, but respectfully still disagree. There is no situation where I prefer production that makes it hard to tell what's going on. To each their own though.


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## JohnIce (May 6, 2014)

Maybe the thread title should be *"What are some preferences among other guitar players that you don't think they should have"* at this point 

Strong preferences in music are dangerous. Preference easily turns to principle which turns to ego, and that can often keep your music from making any sense, AND keep you from discovering cool music from other people. For example, how can you know your song should have a guitar solo or breakdown before you've even written the song? How do you know what style of production it should have? I think it's good to keep an open mind about such things until you know what kind of a song you're dealing with, whether as a musician or as a listener.

If you know before writing a song that you're gonna have a solo, it's gonna have 3/4 melody and 1/4 shred, you're gonna use a 5150 for rhythms and a Mark IIC+ for leads etc. etc. then you have NO right to accuse anyone else of using a "formula" to make music


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## InCasinoOut (May 6, 2014)

ITT: haters who don't prove anything otherwise.

Some of you guys are so damn negative about the current state of guitar-oriented music, yet I still wonder why you're not the next big thing. Show us how it's ....ing done then. 

If you can go into deep, well-informed detail about the things you hate and feel are overdone, then where is your work that "does it right" and why are you not the next new guitarist that's lauded for a fresh take on the instrument?. All of us have our pet peeves of course, but some of you are just ridiculous...


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## Jonathan20022 (May 6, 2014)

Anything predictable and boring, there's ways to make anything sound interesting and fresh. People just don't go the extra mile to make that happen, they just find something new and try to copy it and ride coattails.

I honestly don't have a problem with specific riffs, techniques, or styles. I just find the lack of innovation and thinking outside the box really annoying most times. Then again I don't drown myself in a specific kind of music or band when I discover them, so I guess I don't give myself the opportunity to become annoyed with any cliches. 

In fact I'd say the things I can't stand in this kind of music is mainly the fans, they always seem to forget that there's other musicians right there producing music. They just glorify a single member, even when there's two guitarists doing leads they pick one to put on a pedestal and it's demeaning to think that other members aren't being appreciated. More so when these people go to live shows and circle jerk the guitarist, it's a very awkward and annoying situation.


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## Jarmake (May 6, 2014)

EvA said:


> 2:47
> 
> Edit: is also the time you posted



There was this one time when we were practicing with my old band... It was kinda bodom-ish stuff and I didn't really like it (that's why I quit.), but anyway. On to the story. We were rehearsing and in the middle of a song our keyboard player somehow managed to press a wrong button in his keyboard and boom! there suddently was a very very discoish beat coming out of the pa-system. It reminded that attack attack! song. Everybody just cracked up and we couldn't play for a while 'cause we were laughing so hard.

I guess someone saw something good about technobeats in the middle of a "metal" song and took it further.


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2014)

In actual music it annoys me that if it's not some boring ass syncopated riff with "DAT TOAN" or a syncopated riff that incorporates some new technique the player just learned and is dying to stuff into a riff, then no one actually pays attention to it anymore. 

The more strings you have the more ridiculous stuff you have to be doing with it at all times. If you don't use all the strings, then why the hell do you have it? I didn't use all the strings every song when I played a 6 string, why should I work HARDER now? I just use what I need when I need it and I'm glad it's always aruond to afford me the luxury of making that decision... 

Another thing that gets annoying is that ppl seem to assume you're arrogant or think you're better than you are if you can't come up with a concrete label for what you do. If you look at my Soundcloud page, there's absolutely no way you could pick just one genre for the things I do. I don't go out of my way to try and do as many styles as possible in a "my creative dick is bigger than yours" kind of way. I record whatever I hear in my head at the time I decide to record. Sometimes it's a rap beat. Sometimes it's melodic metal. Sometimes it sounds a lot like porn music. Sometimes I don't even know what the hell is going on in my head, but I gotta get the sounds out. The desire to pigeon-hole ourselves seems silly and limiting...


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## rectifryer (May 6, 2014)




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## RustInPeace (May 6, 2014)

Aside from actual guitar playing/techniques/song structure/whatever, I really cant stand the majority of radio rock music where they all sing about girls/partying/their cocks/drinkin/etc. I bet Nickelback could actually write a half decent metal or hard rock album if they actually tried!


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## JohnIce (May 6, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> Another thing that gets annoying is that ppl seem to assume you're arrogant or think you're better than you are if you can't come up with a concrete label for what you do. If you look at my Soundcloud page, there's absolutely no way you could pick just one genre for the things I do. I don't go out of my way to try and do as many styles as possible in a "my creative dick is bigger than yours" kind of way. I record whatever I hear in my head at the time I decide to record. Sometimes it's a rap beat. Sometimes it's melodic metal. Sometimes it sounds a lot like porn music. Sometimes I don't even know what the hell is going on in my head, but I gotta get the sounds out. The desire to pigeon-hole ourselves seems silly and limiting...



Church! The judging eyes, the offended tone of voice although I find this mostly to come from people who are in very genre-typical bands themselves, and thus probably won't like your band out of principle anyway  Non-musicians tend to be far less concerned with what to call stuff as long as they like the music.


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## DarkWolfXV (May 6, 2014)

Wow, it's been a year since the beginning of this thread...

...and apparently people still hate dissonant chugs and bass drops


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## Noxon (May 6, 2014)

I just found a video on Youtube exemplifying just this sort of thing. Haha, you will probably hate this (listen @ 1.30)

[/QUOTE]

Jesus, I wish I could now douche my ears...


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## InCasinoOut (May 6, 2014)

RustInPeace said:


> Aside from actual guitar playing/techniques/song structure/whatever, I really cant stand the majority of radio rock music where they all sing about girls/partying/their cocks/drinkin/etc. I bet Nickelback could actually write a half decent metal or hard rock album if they actually tried!



The solution is to not listen to radio rock, or think about Nickelback.


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2014)




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## ElRay (May 6, 2014)

Interloper said:


> I hate when the guitars are great and then they find some *cookie monster wannabe* to *growl* over the top of it rendering it unlistenable.



FTFY

Ray


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## Konfyouzd (May 6, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Wow, it's been a year since the beginning of this thread...
> 
> ...and apparently people still hate dissonant chugs and bass drops



Bass drops are kinda sweet


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## chassless (May 7, 2014)

what clichés i don't like about guitar dominated music? that's hard to tell... i've got nothing against most forms of music but my bad senses are tickled every time i hear...

"why downtune ?" in a condescending way. why? because it just sounds nicer to me, just like you prefer some other stuff i don't care about.

"you *must *learn classical guitar first" which i disagree with. these two instruments have historically different musical applications/purposes, and for that reason, people should train on the instrument they prefer. i'm not saying anybody should exclusively play a single instrument, i'm saying learning both is great, but one is not a requisite for the other.

i can't think of anything else for now ._.



Noxon said:


> I just found a video on Youtube exemplifying just this sort of thing. Haha, you will probably hate this (listen @ 1.30)



that video was all over the last couple of pages  but i guess it serves enough to say that we, in this thread, really, really don't like the crabdjeathcore trend


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