# Prepare yourself for the Schaller Hannes 8string bridge



## ikarus (Dec 11, 2012)

Just saw this on facebook:









Hopefully there will be a 7-string version too...


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## TIBrent (Dec 11, 2012)

Oh yeah! Sweet bridge is sweeeet
-Brent


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 11, 2012)

Awesome!


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 11, 2012)

Very cool, but they better have also made a 7 string version


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## EOT (Dec 11, 2012)

Just curious, what's so special about these bridges? Is it just that they look cool or do they offer an advantage of some sort?


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## bridges (Dec 11, 2012)

They not only look cool but they are super comfy and they sound amazing!


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## M3CHK1LLA (Dec 11, 2012)




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## Rook (Dec 11, 2012)

Good lord, I need to email Vik FAST hahaha


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## iamthefonz (Dec 11, 2012)

So they skipped a 7 version and jumped to 8? Odd. 

But DO WANT.


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## canuck brian (Dec 11, 2012)

I hope Sker is prepared for a lawsuit. There's no schaller logo on that bridge...doubt that it's a real Hannes back piece.


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## ThePhilosopher (Dec 11, 2012)

You must mean even; now if only they'd make one for fanned instruments as well.


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## Kroaton (Dec 11, 2012)

There's a little dot before each string that was not on the original. I wonder what purpose it serves.


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## bridges (Dec 11, 2012)

It's a Krachgarten guitar with a custom made copy of the bridge built three years ago. Krachgarten built three 8-string guitars back then and he recently put up some updated photos on his Facebook page. That's how this rumor was started.


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## downburst82 (Dec 11, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> I hope Sker is prepared for a lawsuit. There's no schaller logo on that bridge...doubt that it's a real Hannes back piece.



ya didnt they give you or Darren at decibel a hard time when you were going to machine a custom 7 string back piece?


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## Cremated (Dec 12, 2012)

So it's not even legit? They're not actually coming out with one? What a bummer...


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## ikarus (Dec 12, 2012)

oh no, I thought it was legit when Skervesen postet it.


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## SPNKr (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh LOOK at that!! I imagine that would be sooo comfortable to rest and mute on.


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## skisgaar (Dec 12, 2012)

THIS BRIDGE WILL CHANGE MULTISCALE 8 STRINGS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!


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## skisgaar (Dec 12, 2012)

EOT said:


> Just curious, what's so special about these bridges? Is it just that they look cool or do they offer an advantage of some sort?


 
I guess they have some aesthetically pleasing aspects (Even though I used to think they looked like shit. I love them 5ever now), but they're really good for making each individual string just sound better, and vibrate on their own, not to mention that it can easily be adjusted for multiscale stuff.


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## Malkav (Dec 12, 2012)

skisgaar said:


> THIS BRIDGE WILL CHANGE MULTISCALE 8 STRINGS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!


 
EXCEPT IT'S NOT A MULTISCALE BRIDGE SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!!!!!!!! 

In all seriousness though I'm sure Jaden Rose tried to make a multiscale version of it and also got some heat from Schaller, which is fucking irritating seeing as he was buying two bridges from them to make one and they just seemed to have issue with him making it available on his guitars. I honestly don't get why they'd take issue with that seeing as it's not exactly like they're willing to supply the market


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## skisgaar (Dec 12, 2012)

Malkav said:


> EXCEPT IT'S NOT A MULTISCALE BRIDGE SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!!!!!!!!
> 
> In all seriousness though I'm sure Jaden Rose tried to make a multiscale version of it and also got some heat from Schaller, which is fucking irritating seeing as he was buying two bridges from them to make one and they just seemed to have issue with him making it available on his guitars. I honestly don't get why they'd take issue with that seeing as it's not exactly like they're willing to supply the market



Oh shit. I thought it was D: My bad, sorry for false info, I just saw the JR one, or maybe even another multiscale version of it, and thought it did that on it's own


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## WiseSplinter (Dec 12, 2012)

A multiscale / single-saddle version of this would be fantastic. 

I've not done the research or anything, but I've only seen the hannes on fairly high-end or custom guitars, and it seems to me that the enthusiasts 
who buy said guitars would probably be as likely or even more likely to want multiscale for 8 string instruments 

We can only hope, and wait.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 12, 2012)

This is clearly a back piece made by the guys at Skervesen to expand the bridge's range. Unfortunately, seeing as I know the standard Schaller procedure, they'll move in for the kill legally, as they portray that as a "commercially available non-licenced part". This is the cause for my permanent ban on all things Schaller since last December.


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## canuck brian (Dec 12, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> This is clearly a back piece made by the guys at Skervesen to expand the bridge's range. Unfortunately, seeing as I know the standard Schaller procedure, they'll move in for the kill legally, as they portray that as a "commercially available non-licenced part". This is the cause for my permanent ban on all things Schaller since last December.



I realize that they're doing it as a step to prevent this happening en-masse, but since they're just not building the 7 or 8 string bridges when there is obviously a market for it, it's a pretty stupid move on their part to not build them.

I've turned down a few orders because i wouldn't use the Hannes bridge and I never will. Zero Schaller parts on my gits. 

What's the big deal with these bridges anyways? Aside from a few reviews from people that will generate insta-hype about them, i haven't read a single thing about them that makes me think the price is justified in what you get in return.


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## drmosh (Dec 12, 2012)

I've heard rumours of an "official" 7 string Hannes from Schaller for a while now, sometime in 2013.
I don't get the love though, sure they are comfortable, but they are finicky, mainly plastic and have some very annoying, quickly lose-able bits.
I'd take one milled out of brass


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## JaeSwift (Dec 12, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> I realize that they're doing it as a step to prevent this happening en-masse, but since they're just not building the 7 or 8 string bridges when there is obviously a market for it, it's a pretty stupid move on their part to not build them.
> 
> I've turned down a few orders because i wouldn't use the Hannes bridge and I never will. Zero Schaller parts on my gits.
> 
> What's the big deal with these bridges anyways? Aside from a few reviews from people that will generate insta-hype about them, i haven't read a single thing about them that makes me think the price is justified in what you get in return.



I dunno, over here a Hannes is 107 euros whereas a hipshot is 110. Price wise it's really not that bad.


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## bridges (Dec 12, 2012)

Even though this thread started a false rumor it is true that Schaller will soon release 7-string and 8-string Hannes bridges. Very soon even. I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at the next NAMM in January.

It's also true that the Hannes bridges can be annoying sometimes because the saddle parts fit a little too loosely and can disengage the base parts a little too easily. Schaller or actually Graph Tech can easily remedy this annoyance by making the parts slightly bigger.


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## Navid (Dec 12, 2012)

Fuck my life, I've ordered an 8 string hipshot 1 week ago...


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## angus (Dec 12, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> This is clearly a back piece made by the guys at Skervesen to expand the bridge's range. Unfortunately, seeing as I know the standard Schaller procedure, they'll move in for the kill legally, as they portray that as a "commercially available non-licenced part". This is the cause for my permanent ban on all things Schaller since last December.



You know this has nothing to do with Skervesen, right? They just reposted a link on their facebook page, but it's from some other small-time manufacturer.


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## Rook (Dec 12, 2012)

So wait, lets clarify.

This is a dud, i.e. a one-off and I shouldn't have a boner?

Well damn.


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## downburst82 (Dec 13, 2012)

drmosh said:


> I've heard rumours of an "official" 7 string Hannes from Schaller for a while now, sometime in 2013.
> I don't get the love though, sure they are comfortable, but they are finicky, mainly plastic and have some very annoying, quickly lose-able bits.
> I'd take one milled out of brass



Plastic? 



> The saddles were developed in close collaboration with Graph Tech. They are made of a special compound material. Teflon is one of the materials used in this special compound. In being a highly effective lubricant material (one of the most effective in the world), it dramatically reduces saddle-related string breakage, since no sharp edges can form on the saddles due to wear.


I guess you could call that plastic...but seriously what would the saddle material qualify as just out of curiousity?

also I can't imagine schaller would take much longer to release the 7-8 string versions, as you and someone else said we might see something for namm, if not then within 2013 im sure. To bad they have allready pissed off quite a few potential big customers..


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## skisgaar (Dec 13, 2012)

Well it's their product, so they _can_ move in legally on any imitations, but just because there's a market for it, doesn't mean that they shouldn't take action. 

That market is still a very small market isn't it? I mean, it's just the people on this forum, and other parts of the extended range guitar community, more specifically, the people who can afford a custom guitar, or mods on a guitar. It sucks that they won't/haven't fill(ed) that market, but just because it's there, doesn't mean its particularly valuable...I dunno, I would love an 8 string with a hannes, but at the end of the day, whatever they say goes.

It fucking sucks that Fred was "Banned" from anything Schaller though


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## Thrashmanzac (Dec 13, 2012)

doesn't Darren at Decibel guitars have the go-ahead from schaller to produce one off 7-string Hannes bridges, so longs as they are only sold with his guitars, and not as a stand-alone product? 
if this is a one off with permission from schaller that would be pretty cool, although i doubt they would be allowed to see them as a stand-alone product.
also, i have no idea what happend between Fred and Schaller. can anyone give me a link?


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## JaeSwift (Dec 13, 2012)

downburst82 said:


> Plastic?
> 
> I guess you could call that plastic...but seriously what would the saddle material qualify as just out of curiousity?
> 
> also I can't imagine schaller would take much longer to release the 7-8 string versions, as you and someone else said we might see something for namm, if not then within 2013 im sure. To bad they have allready pissed off quite a few potential big customers..



Errr, it's the same material as Graphtech's String Saver saddles AFAIK, which are phenomenal upgrades over any other type of saddles IMO. I had a 6er with graphtech saddles and a graphtech nut and it resonated very, very nicely. Before I changed the saddles and nut, the nut was plastic and the saddles were solid steel. Needless to say, a lot suckier than Graphtech stuff.

So yea, definitely not just ''plastic''.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 13, 2012)

angus said:


> You know this has nothing to do with Skervesen, right? They just reposted a link on their facebook page, but it's from some other small-time manufacturer.



It's irrelevant who made it. I say so from experience - if they put that in a publicly visible guitar, Schaller will begin their usual intimidation process, which also involves explicitly forbidding the acquisition of aftermarket Hannes parts from Graphtech (via blacklisting the company in that regard).


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't get why Schaller haven't introduced a 7 and 8 string bridge since there is a huge market for it. Its like Bareknuckle not making 7 and 8 string pickups.


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## Winspear (Dec 13, 2012)




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## HighGain510 (Dec 13, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> What's the big deal with these bridges anyways? Aside from a few reviews from people that will generate insta-hype about them, i haven't read a single thing about them that makes me think the price is justified in what you get in return.



Well while it's not like you have an axe to grind with Schaller or anything lol, I will say the only Hannes bridge I've tried was on Misha's B2 and since I've made it clear on dozens of occasions that I'm not a Blackmachine fanboy whatsoever and have disliked other BMs I've tried, that guitar sounded fantastic and the bridge was incredibly comfortable. So since I have no horse in that race and nothing to gain by stating my opinion based on my single experience with the bridge, I'm not really looking to "hype up" the Hannes yet I found it to be a really nice bridge, FWIW.  I mean, if you guys can't use it to make 7's out of it, and you don't like it anyway, who cares? 

FWIW I don't think that their tactics on limiting the market/aftermarket use of a 7-string version of their bridge is a great idea, I just don't see the point in purposely slamming the company because they don't approve of you trying to modify their product to garner sales for yourself. If they don't want to earn business for themselves by putting out 7 and 8 string versions of their bridge design, let them shoot themselves in the foot.  The whole anti-Schaller thing seems a bit silly, just don't buy their products if you have a problem with them personally.


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## canuck brian (Dec 13, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> FWIW I don't think that their tactics on limiting the market/aftermarket use of a 7-string version of their bridge is a great idea, I just don't see the point in purposely slamming the company because they don't approve of you trying to modify their product to garner sales for yourself. If they don't want to earn business for themselves by putting out 7 and 8 string versions of their bridge design, let them shoot themselves in the foot.  The whole anti-Schaller thing seems a bit silly, just don't buy their products if you have a problem with them personally.



I didn't try to use the product at all.  I happily use companies that work closely with the smaller builders at the same time as huge companies like ESP. 

It's been almost a year since they've done their threatening of a lawsuit against a friend of mine and they've done absolutely nothing to fill the void. I *really* get the concept of keeping your intellectual property under your own roof, but in this case, i think Schaller were being a bunch of dicks. They're not making 7 string bridges. They're not making 8 string bridges. Sending something like a temporary licensing agreement to allow people to build and sell the bridges on the one off custom guitars would have generated a much better response, created a MUCH better releationship with the builders that will be using your product and show the public that you're going to be bringing that product to the market under your own name. 

Again, I get the whole idea of protecting your interests, but being outright heavy handed with the niche market that you're going to be selling to is not the best course of action as it might generate a response like mine.  Product boycotts can happen in any market though - the guitar market is no different. 

Just to be clear on a few things with Schaller though - I've never once slammed their product - they really do make great tuners and bridges. I just think the company itself is an entity that dislike and refuse to deal with. There are more than enough companies out there such as Hipshot and Bareknuckle who take the time and talk to the smaller builders and try to actually WORK with them. 



> The whole anti-Schaller thing seems a bit silly, just don't buy their products if you have a problem with them personally.



I do have a problem with them, so I don't buy their products and in turn, their products will never show up on my guitars.  I'm just vocal about how I feel about them.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 13, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> The whole anti-Schaller thing seems a bit silly, just don't buy their products if you have a problem with them personally.



I'm pretty honest about how I feel about certain stances, as you know, and it is only natural that, after the plain rudeness they exhibited pertaining a non-commercial take on the bridge, I talk about it. I find it a poor business decision from them not to accommodate ERG's, and an even poorer one to resort to direct threats pertaining companies' attempts to use variations on their material to try to find a solution for the gap in question. If Jaden had attempted to pursue a commercial version, I'd totally get them, but as it is it's just silly. The proto above was the only take on it, and the slanted piece for fanned frets is pretty much rotting in a drawer somewhere.

As for the bridge, it's a good unit for sure - it's obviously not the good old "heavenly choir starts singing the moment you play a guitar with one" nonsense, but then again nothing really fits that category outside of hype.


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## J7string (Dec 13, 2012)

It's all about the 8 string guitarist now. The 7 string guitarist is so 2000  

Very nice though. Me likey.


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## technomancer (Dec 13, 2012)

So Schaller enforces their exclusive licensing of the Hannes design? SHOCKING 



That said given Schaller seems to be steadily adding options to the Hannes I'd be surprised if 7 and 8 string versions don't come out eventually.


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## HighGain510 (Dec 13, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> As for the bridge, it's a good unit for sure - it's obviously not the good old "heavenly choir starts singing the moment you play a guitar with one" nonsense, but then again nothing really fits that category outside of hype.



I lol'd!


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 13, 2012)

technomancer said:


> So Schaller enforces their exclusive licensing of the Hannes design? SHOCKING
> 
> 
> 
> That said given Schaller seems to be steadily adding options to the Hannes I'd be surprised if 7 and 8 string versions don't come out eventually.



You know that isn't the real issue here, man. If such things were to be offered as commercially available products, it would be obviously correct from Schaller to intervene. As long as that isn't the case, it's pretty pointless - not that the suit would fly, but it's clearly a simple matter of knowing a small guitar builder can't afford the massive legal costs.

Their current MO is to proactively proceed to a) threaten to bring an immediate lawsuit, b) blacklist the guy who did the mods so that no Hannes spares can be purchased from Graphtech.

You're welcome to disagree, but this is as out of place as me getting sued by DiMarzio because I got a luthier to fit aftermarket covers on a uncovered set.


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## Totenkampf (Dec 13, 2012)

I was actually enquiring about buying loose bridge arms yesterday so i dont have to buy seven 6 string hannes to make six 7 strings and was told by Roland himself to expect the 7 and 8 string hannes from schaller as early as next month. i can wait but i was fully prepared to start drilling on some stuff.

i have played the 6 sting version on a carvin hardtail and the sustain increase was noticable, they are as comfortable as the hipshot that was on my schecter devil spine-8 and i do think they look cool. i also believe that the way the strings terminate at the string ball plate helps with this resonance and its also nice that you can ground there instead of at the bridge mounting screws.

the reason that there is some play in between the arms is so that you can angle the bridge for better intonation much like you might a TOM type. The arms themselves dont adjust forward and backward as much as i would like but rolands says that you can sand down the back of the arm for some flexibility. its the same material as a tusq nut so it sands easily.

what i would like to find is someone who will sell be the schaller stuff in the alternate finishes other than gold black and chrome, their global distrubtors have pretty much all told me they arent interested and i actually showed up on allparts doorstep to ask...they dont like that btw


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## downburst82 (Dec 14, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Errr, it's the same material as Graphtech's String Saver saddles AFAIK, which are phenomenal upgrades over any other type of saddles IMO. I had a 6er with graphtech saddles and a graphtech nut and it resonated very, very nicely. Before I changed the saddles and nut, the nut was plastic and the saddles were solid steel. Needless to say, a lot suckier than Graphtech stuff.
> 
> So yea, definitely not just ''plastic''.



Ya I know its not plastic, I use graphtech stuff on most of my guitars (the company is actually based out of Delta which is less than an hour from me). I was joking because someone else had claimed it was made out of mainly plastic. My one question still stands though? anyone know the best term for the material graphtech stuff is made from? 

Maybe I will have to take a trip out to there offices and ask them to spill all there secrets to me!!


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## JaeSwift (Dec 14, 2012)

downburst82 said:


> Ya I know its not plastic, I use graphtech stuff on most of my guitars (the company is actually based out of Delta which is less than an hour from me). I was joking because someone else had claimed it was made out of mainly plastic. My one question still stands though? anyone know the best term for the material graphtech stuff is made from?
> 
> Maybe I will have to take a trip out to there offices and ask them to spill all there secrets to me!!



I recall them describing it as graphite with a teflon coating; though it's not just a coating because its actually in the material itself.


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## Devotee (Dec 14, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> You're welcome to disagree, but this is as out of place as me getting sued by DiMarzio because I got a luthier to fit aftermarket covers on a uncovered set.



Errr... That's not even at all the same thing.  If a luthier is copying Schaller's bridge design and appropriating it for use on a guitar that will be a commercial product (it is an instrument being built for a paying customer after all) - then that's the very definition of using someone else's intellectual property for commercial purposes. A lot of manufacturers may turn a blind eye to that kind of thing (for instance, welding two OFRs together to make an 8-string Floyd) when its a one-off some guy built for himself but i think Schaller is being quite diligent about it because they are trying to protect their share of the market - especially if they're planning on releasing a 7/8 string Hannes bridge soon.


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## EOT (Dec 14, 2012)

Devotee said:


> Errr... That's not even at all the same thing.  If a luthier is copying Schaller's bridge design and appropriating it for use on a guitar that will be a commercial product (it is an instrument being built for a paying customer after all) - then that's the very definition of using someone else's intellectual property for commercial purposes. A lot of manufacturers may turn a blind eye to that kind of thing (for instance, welding two OFRs together to make an 8-string Floyd) when its a one-off some guy built for himself but i think Schaller is being quite diligent about it because they are trying to protect their share of the market - especially if they're planning on releasing a 7/8 string Hannes bridge soon.



It seems pretty similar to me. It's not like a luthier would be putting the covers on free of charge.


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## angus (Dec 14, 2012)

As much as it sounds dickish, Schaller are right to protect their patent (or patent applied for). There is plenty of precedent, especially in the music realm, for problems incurred by not protecting your patent rights. 

Why they don't do licensing deals for 7 and 8 strings, I don't really understand, but that's another story. 



Fred the Shred said:


> It's irrelevant who made it. I say so from experience - if they put that in a publicly visible guitar, Schaller will begin their usual intimidation process, which also involves explicitly forbidding the acquisition of aftermarket Hannes parts from Graphtech (via blacklisting the company in that regard).



My point was that Skervesen just reposted a picture of a guitar someone else made, so it has nothing to do with them specifically. Skervesen aren't using the bridges or making guitars involved in the bridges, so their name isn't involved in this story.


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## SkullCrusher (Dec 14, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


>



Is that Dildo Shaggins chum?


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## Totenkampf (Dec 14, 2012)

i wonder just how far that all goes. i can understand wanting to protect the technology but if someone purchased a couple bridges and then reused the parts to make one bridge that had three or more custom pieces on it then i would think there wouldnt be an issue...i mean schaller sold two bridges right? maybe reality doesnt work that way but if i am a big company and someone want to buy my product and resell a modifcation to it then who cares, i made my money right? now if crates of chinese tusq type swingarms start showing up then we have a problem


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## silentrage (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't personally agree with that kind of business practice.

If you make a good product, you should be rewarded for it, that's fine.

But once you win some market share, and start to stagnate and stop innovating, then someone else takes your design farther than you intended, to fill a bigger market niche, then you shouldn't be sueing them, you should be trying to take that idea and taking it further still. That's how technology progresses and consumers benefit. 

Companies sitting on a pile of patents and doing nothing with them, and ferociously sueing the absolute piss out of anyone else who tries to, stops innovation and hurts consumers, and it makes you look like a enormous tool. *cough apple cough*.


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## Ben.Last (Dec 21, 2012)

And, as I'm known to point out, this is another example of how copyright/trademark law is a fucking mess right now.

I'm sorry, retrofitting 8 of Schaller's bridge pieces into a custom made back piece should not be call for legal action. As has been stated, it's not as though the company was mass producing these to sell.


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## guy in latvia (Dec 21, 2012)

I have personally contacted Schaller on several occasions to ask for 7 and 8 string gear, unfortunately their current business model is only targeted at 6 string guitars.

It really sucks because Schaller bridges are awesome. The hannes bridge and the Schaller tremolo are really flagship market leading models and it pisses me off to have to use gear, other than what I prefer. Hope they change their mind soon. At least no regrets when going fanned fret, no alternative to using single saddles per string.


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## vansinn (Dec 23, 2012)

Originally Posted by JaeSwift 
Errr, it's the same material as Graphtech's String Saver saddles AFAIK, which are phenomenal upgrades over any other type of saddles IMO. I had a 6er with graphtech saddles and a graphtech nut and it resonated very, very nicely. Before I changed the saddles and nut, the nut was plastic and the saddles were solid steel. Needless to say, a lot suckier than Graphtech stuff.

So yea, definitely not just ''plastic''.


downburst82 said:


> Ya I know its not plastic, I use graphtech stuff on most of my guitars (the company is actually based out of Delta which is less than an hour from me). I was joking because someone else had claimed it was made out of mainly plastic. My one question still stands though? anyone know the best term for the material graphtech stuff is made from?
> 
> Maybe I will have to take a trip out to there offices and ask them to spill all there secrets to me!!



There are many types of plastics, as is the case with graphites - which isn't baked clay, as some may think  (one graphite example is circoniom-oxide)
Interestingly, Graphtec makes products from both graphites, resins and teflons.

The Hannes bridge was designed by, well, Hannes, a designer, who believes that strings should be anchored directly to the body, while using a low-weight, low-resonant saddle, resting directly on the body via two height-adjustment screws.
This would be preferable to the more classic more massy bridge/saddle approach, where the saddle usually rests on the complete bridge, which is then mounted onto the body.

The rationale is that any bridge/saddle will vibrate with the strings.
Vibrations can only occur by stealing energy from the vibrating string, so reducing the saddle mass, while using a low-weight material, also having low resonance properties, would allow the string to vibrate more freely, and with longer sustain.

I haven't tried those as yet, so I can't testify to how they work in real life.

The Hannes saddles, AFAIR, are made from teflon, but which specific teflon I don't know.
I don't remember if the bridge part is also made from this, or if they use some carbon/resin/teflon.

Also note that the saddles are hinged, greatly easing string replacements, as you'll simply flip-up the saddle.

It's interesting to note that some old-school ToM's used a semi-heavy bridge with thin, pointy, low-weight, low-resonance saddles, made from some fibre (don't know which), which would likely produce semilar results as the Hannes, while using either a heavy tailpiece or through-body as the solid anchor.


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## Miek (Dec 23, 2012)

Are you thinking of the old nylon saddles on the TOMs? Those things are cool.


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## UnderTheSign (Dec 24, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> I dunno, over here a Hannes is 107 euros whereas a hipshot is 110. Price wise it's really not that bad.


Yeah, might be because we're in the EU but Schaller stuff is just as expensive if not cheaper than Hipshot.

Apart from the price, I prefer it over the Hipshot bridge because of the overall feel and look. Like Fred said it's nothing out of the world but IMO it's a very solid bridge.


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## JaeSwift (Dec 24, 2012)

UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah, might be because we're in the EU but Schaller stuff is just as expensive if not cheaper than Hipshot.
> 
> Apart from the price, I prefer it over the Hipshot bridge because of the overall feel and look. Like Fred said it's nothing out of the world but IMO it's a very solid bridge.



This pretty much confirms my theory that anything German made (ENGL) is more expensive in the US while anything from any other country is cheaper there


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## Sepultorture (Feb 2, 2013)

so i'm guessing the hannes 7 and 8 strings bridge were no shows at NAMM

google shows me notta


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## jimwratt (Feb 2, 2013)

Would a multi-scale bridge accomplish the same thing as a multi scale neck?


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## Scattered Messiah (Feb 3, 2013)

both goes hand in hand ...

a multiscale bridge with straight frets is no use (notesalad).
a multiscale bridge with all frets parallel to the bridge is functionally the same to straight bridge and frets.

a multiscale bridge only "works" with a multiscale fretboard and the other way round...


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## Cremated (Feb 3, 2013)

Sepultorture said:


> so i'm guessing the hannes 7 and 8 strings bridge were no shows at NAMM
> 
> google shows me notta



There were never any plans for 7 and 8 string bridges, so no, they probably weren't at NAMM.


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## Christian Noir (Feb 3, 2013)

I can't understand how a company can sue someone for taking 2 of their bridges, cutting them up and welding them together to make a 7 or 8 string version... Even if reselling them... as long as they're not sold as an official part... 

Sound like mickey-mouse hogwash or splitting electrons to me. 

I guess they want to make a splash when the thing is released, but still.


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## Christian Noir (Feb 3, 2013)

Cremated said:


> There were never any plans for 7 and 8 string bridges, so no, they probably weren't at NAMM.



Email from Schaller rep last August:

"Hannes bridge for 7strings will be available in 2013."


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## possumkiller (Feb 4, 2013)

Ibanez didn't sue anyone for chopping up Lo Pros to make 8-string trems.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 4, 2013)

Ibanez is well aware of how that isn't really supposed to be a mass practice nor remotely competitive. Schaller has a... "different" view.


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## Phrygian (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm pretty annoyed at Schaller - Even when Hannes himself approved of Darren (Decibel) making his own 7string, lefty hannes for my build, Schaller put their corporate foot down and said "do it and you'll hear from our lawyers".. And when someone asked them they said "no" to if they are going to make a lefty version of the bridge.


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## Ben.Last (Feb 4, 2013)

Christian Noir said:


> I can't understand how a company can sue someone for taking 2 of their bridges, cutting them up and welding them together to make a 7 or 8 string version... Even if reselling them... as long as they're not sold as an official part...
> 
> Sound like mickey-mouse hogwash or splitting electrons to me.
> 
> I guess they want to make a splash when the thing is released, but still.



Copyright law is a fucking mess; that's how.


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## HRC51 (Feb 4, 2013)

I'd like to try these, but I don't think you can retrofit. No allen screw sharp edges sticking up!


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## angus (Feb 4, 2013)

Lern2swim said:


> Copyright law is a fucking mess; that's how.



Well, copyright is for ideas or thoughts, but similar idea, yes. 

They do it so they can protect potential current (initial design) and future (extended range) patent rights... if they've applied. Nothing more.


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## Christian Noir (Feb 5, 2013)

Lern2swim said:


> Copyright law is a fucking mess; that's how.



But no one is copying anything. It's buy two bridges, cut, weld and voila. It's not like editing a song or anything, in which you actually make a physical or digital copy.

What's part of copyright law is it violating?

Can someone provide any example in which copyright or patent law was applied in a similar case and the plaintiff won?

They said the bridge would be out this year, but I still find this making me curious and would like to read a relevant case.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 5, 2013)

Simple: they claim it's a commercially available product, which gives them ground to advance with the suit. They won't win - point is that no small company has the funds to embark in massive legal battles, so what happens is that they stop by default.


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## narad (Feb 5, 2013)

Phrygian said:


> I'm pretty annoyed at Schaller - Even when Hannes himself approved of Darren (Decibel) making his own 7string, lefty hannes for my build, Schaller put their corporate foot down and said "do it and you'll hear from our lawyers".. And when someone asked them they said "no" to if they are going to make a lefty version of the bridge.



Yes. Wish we could just sort of give Darren a wink and just start having a lot of NGDs with photos curiously cropped as to never show the bridge. You certainly can't sue what you can't prove exists.


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## Walterson (Feb 5, 2013)

JaeSwift said:


> I dunno, over here a Hannes is 107 euros whereas a hipshot is 110. Price wise it's really not that bad.



110EUR for ONE Hipshot 6 String bridge? I ordered them directly in the US, it took ages until they arrived, but I got two for 100EUR - VAT and shipment included!


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## Danukenator (Feb 5, 2013)

Christian Noir said:


> I can't understand how a company can sue someone for taking 2 of their bridges, cutting them up and welding them together to make a 7 or 8 string version... Even if reselling them... as long as they're not sold as an official part...
> 
> Sound like mickey-mouse hogwash or splitting electrons to me.
> 
> I guess they want to make a splash when the thing is released, but still.



It's because it's legal fluff. They wouldn't win a law suit. As long as the seller didn't advertise them as a Hannes bridge, they have no legal ground to go on. It's a scare tactic to prevent the market from meeting it's own needs.


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## angus (Feb 5, 2013)

No, IF they have a patent pending on the 6 string bridge, they can very very easily argue that it is merely an extension on their current patent since the design is identical but expanded in size. They would win...IF they have euro or american patent pending. This is assuming someone reproduced the design.

But, if they do not _aggressively_ protect their rights (a la Rickenbacker and unlike Fender), they will have a much more difficult time protecting it in the future. 

However, if someone purchased two Hannes bridges, cut and spliced them and are not remarketing them or profiting off of it, they have no legal grounds (even to threaten).


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## Christian Noir (Feb 5, 2013)

Fred the Shred said:


> Simple: they claim it's a commercially available product, which gives them ground to advance with the suit. They won't win - point is that no small company has the funds to embark in massive legal battles, so what happens is that they stop by default.



I'd still like to read a case in which anyone has won this type of suit.. not copying, but modifying an existing product an selling it as such... a modified product.

Not that I'm planning on doing this, but interesting nonetheless.


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## Sepultorture (Feb 5, 2013)

guess we shall have to sit and wait and see what comes of 2013


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## Danukenator (Feb 5, 2013)

Then, pretending the Floyd patent was still in effect, could Floyd Rose sue the forum member who spliced two bridges together to make an 8 string one?


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## angus (Feb 6, 2013)

Not if it was done for the person's own purpose. If they did it to resell, then it gets tricky.



Christian Noir said:


> I'd still like to read a case in which anyone has won this type of suit.. not copying, but modifying an existing product an selling it as such... a modified product.
> 
> Not that I'm planning on doing this, but interesting nonetheless.



For their own purposes, it's fine. Reselling the bridge? Problematic, because you are infringing on an extension of Schaller's (theoretical) patent, as you've merely extended the number of single units of their bridge design from 6 to 8.

When I have a moment later today I'll look to see if they have filed a US or European patent.


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## Phrygian (Feb 6, 2013)

So if I made the bridge myself (buy two original, keep the saddles/ buy saddles and make the bridge) and shipped it to the luthier building my guitar they could not sue me? Interesting.


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## angus (Feb 6, 2013)

They could certainly sue you if they wanted, but it would be difficult to prove that they were infringed upon. If your instrument was then marketed, then it becomes more questionable.

Either way they could sue (because you can sue for anything), but it would be unlikely to go anywhere beyond "threatening", since it would be expensive and pointless for both parties...especially when the scope of that "offense" would be limited to a single scenario. 

The whole thing is stupid- how many people are actually going to do this? Well, realistically, pretty much nobody. There is a curious amount of discussion about this.

Either way I'm sure they'll release the 7 and 8 string versions eventually, and everyone who wants one can convert over.


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## vansinn (Feb 6, 2013)

No case has ever been won when someone cuts the front off a VW Beedle and welds a Jaguar front to it - yes, I've seen this done, and they put a 2-liter 6-cyl Porche engine in it too. sticking in under the backseat, hahaha 

Anyone can cut and weld/glue two bridges for one's own pleasure, and even send it to a luthier saying "dude, build be an axe with this" - as long as it's for one's own pleasure.
As said above, it's only when a product is made for selling and/or is being rebranded there will be grounds for a case.


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## Ben.Last (Feb 7, 2013)

angus said:


> Well, copyright is for ideas or thoughts, but similar idea, yes.



Yeah. I was using the term copyright as a generalization. The mess encompasses trademarks, patents, etc.


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## Koloss85 (Mar 21, 2013)

so, still no plans on 8 string versions? still no updates from Schaller but checking if anyone else knows anything. and is retrofit a possibility?


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## Danukenator (Mar 21, 2013)

If you have the ability to make one for your own use, it's fine. If you sell them, etc. then Schaller has grounds to do something.


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## Koloss85 (Mar 21, 2013)

So was that 2013 time frame for 8 bs? If so, homemade sounds like the way to go. It does look cool and comfy


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## meambobbo (Mar 22, 2013)

patents are fucking stupid. yeah, let's give a bunch of gov't idiots with no threat of losing their jobs the athority to say who can and can't make this or that piece of metal or software, of which they have absolutely no real understanding of. All in the name of innovation!!!

/rant


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## UnderTheSign (Mar 22, 2013)

meambobbo said:


> patents are fucking stupid. yeah, let's give a bunch of gov't idiots with no threat of losing their jobs the athority to say who can and can't make this or that piece of metal or software, of which they have absolutely no real understanding of. All in the name of innovation!!!
> 
> /rant


Yeah, screw being able to protect your own intellectual property! Designs, like, should totally be availble to everyone you know. People should be able to steal your ideas, innovation man!


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## blanco (Mar 22, 2013)

Doesn't look like any news on a 7 or 8 although i did stumble across this picture of a jaden rose prototype for a fan fretted 6 with hannes. It's an old picture though from 2011. I guess that it never got put into production by Jaden.

Heres the link: Jaden Rose Guitars | British Handcrafted Guitars » JRG Diary 11-8-2011


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## technomancer (Mar 22, 2013)

He was sent a cease and desist letter for putting a modified version of the Hannes into production (he was going to do a guitar model with the modified bridge).


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## blanco (Mar 22, 2013)

Well that sucks. Wonder is schaller would ever work with someone like jaden to help make a production version for them if there is a demand for it. I mean these luthiers go through a large amount of work to make prototypes, although they do know its already patent pending so are aware of the risks and how futile it might be, and it sort seems a shame that schaller wouldn't go ok fair enough you can keep making it but we want your designs so we can make our own and when we have ours for sale you can use ours for a discounted price. 

Shows what its possible to do with it though so if people incorporated both the ideas of making the 7 or 8 and then this you could pretty much make anything you like scale and string wise.


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## meambobbo (Mar 22, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah, screw being able to protect your own intellectual property! Designs, like, should totally be availble to everyone you know. People should be able to steal your ideas, innovation man!



"intellectual property" is a bastardization of the concept of property, which stems from conflict regarding control of SCARCE resources. Ideas are not tangible and are only as scarce as the mediums capable of representing them, which are not infinite but are plentiful. Storing or implementing an idea is non-conflicting - me using idea X does not prevent you from using idea X, unless idea X revolves around some scarce property, in which case we have property laws - no need for intellectual property laws. You can't steal an idea - copying/imitating is not stealing. No one is forcing you to give your designs away and production of intellectual goods has historically occurred at comparable scales both inside of and outside of intellectual property laws. The application of intellectual property is arbitrary, regulated by non-experts, and often creates perverse incentives and unreasonably high barriers to entry. Ever make anything yourself? Ever pay for a patent search and try to "protect" your property? Did you sell your car first? There is not a single study that can reasonably assess the costs of intellectual property and deem it is a net positive.

I think this example is a great case in point - Schaller hasn't yet made 7/8 string versions of this bridge, nor will it likely ever make a fanned fret version. It isn't as though builders are machining their own parts based on their design - they're buying Schaller's parts and assembling them as consumers want. So let's deny people goods AND LEGALLY DENY THEM from assembling such goods, even with parts bought from the company in question, then pretend this is progress. No it's legal monopoly and rent-seeking.

ok, i'm done for now...maybe we can continue this in its own thread later...


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## Danukenator (Mar 22, 2013)

The idea behind copyright laws is that it gives people an incentive to innovate new technology. If a company, just for example a pharmaceutical corporation, decides to develop a new product they will undertake a massive amount of R&D costs. If I own a company, I'd just wait until their product was developed and then produce it myself. I'd be able to undersell them because I don't have the same R&D costs to recoup. Therefore, the original company wouldn't be willing to undertake the research. 

Obviously this is just one particular example but point stands, there needs to be some level of protection to have private individuals/companies make their own product. The extent to which this applies is what I'd argue over.

In the instance of the 8 string, I can see their point. I'd say given the amount of time that's passed w/out response is frustrating (I really wanted one for a build ). That's one of the pitfalls of copyright laws and one that should probably be fixed (How? No idea, that's above my paygrade and would probably take some research into company's R&D practices). However, the fanned one is ridiculous. It appears he just modified the "for sale" product by extending the higher strings. Schaller could include those screws (perhaps a set that could be trimmed down, so each screw is 2-3" and then could be cut for the fan) and add something to the original price. This is where copyright bugs me. It's preventing a practical advancement of the product.


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## blanco (Mar 22, 2013)

Yeah i'd start the whole copyrighting thing in a new thread. Its a mine field and is a little off topic for this thread and normally gets out of hand.
I wanted more to point out that if people where to acquire the official parts for themselves then there is a nice picture of how to make a multiscale version.


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## Compton (Mar 22, 2013)

oooohh dang, thats cooo


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## meambobbo (Mar 23, 2013)

so I made a thread for the intellectual property debate:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/po...-property-opinions-arguments.html#post3475197


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