# The "I think Ibanez guitars are way over rated" Thread



## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

Oh man, I´m going to get so much hate for making this thread! Haha! Which is why I make it!  
Got inspired by the The "I think The Dark Knight is way overrated" Thread, 
and also all the threads where people ask what guitar they should buy and everyone goes ibanez, ibanez, ibanez!

First of all I just want to get one thing straight. Ibanez guitars isn´t BAD. Just waaay too overrated.

I´ve owned 3 ibby´s through the years, all sold now though . 
A UV777, 2077XL and UV7, and as I said none of them was straight up bad, but the build quality was POOR! 
Had a lot of problems with all of them. 
Neck going out of line, frets getting loose, bad connection in jack input several times, 
something about the bolt-on not being right so it made a weird sound when palm muting etc. 
And I only used them at home.

I have to add, I did buy them used, but I´ve bought a way older PRS used and aslo a music man, 
never had any problems with them!
Another thing is the licenced floyd, yuck.

I don´t think they sound very special either. Always feel the ibby´s sound kinda thin. 
Swapped the pickups on the UV777 and 2077, but never got quite happy. 
I do think the UV7 sounded quite nice though, and it also played like a dream. 
Actually it was an awesome guitar, but the build quality ruined it for me. 
That´s the one who made weird sound when palm muting, 
like it was hollow at the joint where the neck was bolted on.

So yeah, overrated! I thought this ibanez love was a trend that would die sooner or later, 
but it has lasted too many years now.

Anyway, that´s my opinion. Is there anyone else that feel the same out there? Haha.

Now you can burn me


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## Prydogga (Oct 10, 2009)

I saw the thread title and thought "Oh god... " Yes I even said sadface...?

I'm glad there are no replies agreeing with you yet so I can say that as long as this thread exists I am scared to wander into the general music thread. 



cataclysm_child said:


> Another thing is the licenced floyd, yuck.
> 
> Now you can burn me



Oh my... I wish I hadn't seen this I'm sad... No offense to you or anyone else less than satisfied by Ibby.


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## BrainArt (Oct 10, 2009)

Prydogga said:


> I saw the thread title and thought "Oh god... " Yes I even said sadface...?
> 
> I'm glad there are no replies agreeing with you yet so I can say that as long as this thread exists I am scared to wander into the general music thread.
> 
> ...



I was the same way as you, man! Don't worry, I LOVE my Ibbys.


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## thedonutman (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't think they're overrated - there are plenty of people out there who hate them.


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## loktide (Oct 10, 2009)

i really don't think ibanez is overrated. i've been dissapointed with almost every post 2000 'prestige' model i've played, and i think their prices for MIJ models are simply ridiculous. 

nonetheless, my rg3120 is one of the best sounding 6er i've played and doesn't remotely compare to what typical basswood ibbys sound like. also, the neck and build quality on the 2228 really impressed me (except the cheapish fixed bridge)


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

I did pick up the 2228 once and it was quite nice, didn´t "feel" as cheap as other ibby´s either. But I hate how it looks, hehe.


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## signalgrey (Oct 10, 2009)

i dont understand the appeal either

i HATE their basses. the Soundgear basses ive played sucked serious balls. BUT the BTB series and the ATK's i played were nice.

as for the guitars. i played a UV i thought was nice. but not 1500 nice. i think RG's are one of the most boring and uninspiring looking guitars ive ever seen.


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## BlindingLight7 (Oct 10, 2009)

Ibanez > All. 

That's all i have to say about that.


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## Ror3h (Oct 10, 2009)

I used to like them, but had some wrist issues (especially with my old 7), and have since discovered what good tone is...


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## Harry (Oct 10, 2009)

Interesting, it would seem Ibanez is one of the more bashed brands at SS.org anyway and people buy them more so because of how accessible they are, rather than just them purely being great guitars.
Hell, lately I see a lot of people saying go Agile over Ibanez.
So I really don't see Ibanez as being overrated, they seem to be rated for what they are.

I think a lot of people can accept RG 7321s are pretty average guitars.
In fact a lot of people hate them because many have problems.
RG 7421s/7621s/7620s pretty good, because well obviously they are much better built and have stood the test of time.

I have an Ibanez, that is correct, I like it a lot too, but is it the greatest guitar in the world?
Fuck no, not by a long shot.

Honestly I think Ibanez peaked about 10 or so years ago with their 7 strings, and since then a lot of their catalogue hasn't been very interesting or appealing.
Don't get me wrong, the RG 1527 is a great guitar, but is it 2899 AUD great?
Fuck that shit, custom made guitars go for cheaper than that and will shit on an RG 1527.


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## Seebu (Oct 10, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Ibanez > All.
> 
> That's all i have to say about that.


How would you know, have you tested all the guitars in the world?


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## BlindingLight7 (Oct 10, 2009)

Seebu said:


> How would you know, have you tested all the guitars in the world?


Every Ibanez I have played...which is most definitely every production model RG/S/Xiphos they've made in the last 3 years...havn't found a problem with those...so yeah, i suppose i have.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

IMO, Ibanez guitars are WAY overrated, it's all about ESP or Jackson for me.


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## Toshiro (Oct 10, 2009)

This thread fails, on a number of levels.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> This thread fails, on a number of levels.



I don't agree. Opinions and their voicing are important, what better place than an open-minded forum such as SS.org? He's being met with people that share the same view as him, which is the idea.


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## Toshiro (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I don't agree. Opinions and their voicing are important, what better place than an open-minded forum such as SS.org? He's being met with people that share the same view as him, which is the idea.



The thread itself is flamebait, and reminds me of HC.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> The thread itself is flamebait, and reminds me of HC.



So he should just keep quiet about his opinion? No. It's only flamebait if the people who flame him are giving a knee-jerk reaction with "OMGZ HOW DARE U DISAGREE WIV ME" rather than actually sitting back and thinking about it and that the thread wasn't made for them, it was made for people who DO think this is the case.

Like I said, SS.org is an open-minded community, I'm sure people won't be so quick to trash the thread if they think about.


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## loktide (Oct 10, 2009)

HAUCH said:


> I think it has more to do with function and feel. Ibanez stuff has a certain feel, and it doesn't appeal to everyone.


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## Arteriorrhexis (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> IMO, Ibanez guitars are WAY overrated, it's all about ESP or Jackson for me.



ESP 

I'm not sure if I could agree with this thread though cause the only Ibanez I have is the 7321 but I know that's not one of the higher end models, and the others I've played on were in guitar center and sam ash and they were all fucked up. I do like Ibanez A LOT though.


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## Toshiro (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> So he should just keep quiet about his opinion? No. It's only flamebait if the people who flame him are giving a knee-jerk reaction with "OMGZ HOW DARE U DISAGREE WIV ME" rather than actually sitting back and thinking about it and that the thread wasn't made for them, it was made for people who DO think this is the case.
> 
> Like I said, SS.org is an open-minded community, I'm sure people won't be so quick to trash the thread if they think about.



Yeah, like the basswood hate threads? Having an opinion is one thing, starting a bash thread is another. I could easily start a thread about how I think ESPs are vastly overpriced, or how Gibson/Fender pump out shit, but it's not a worthwhile thing to do, IMO.

Don't preach to me about how openminded the forum is dude, I've been on here 5 years.


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## EdgeC (Oct 10, 2009)

Schecter > Ibanez


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## mattofvengeance (Oct 10, 2009)

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree, but everybody is different. Like Dave said, we're a fairly open minded bunch of dudes (and some females), so I don't think there's any reason to flame somebody for their opinion. I've loved every Ibanez I have ever picked up. The neck to me is flawless, and I really like their low profile trems. However, that doesn't mean I don't still have love for ESP and Jackson. I want a Horizon NT7 like there is no tomorrow, and if Jackson made a production model soloist, I would be all over it. The finish of the neck would be sanded off on both, though.


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## whisper (Oct 10, 2009)

Although this really gets into subjective area, I agree. I feel this way about fender and gibson products as well. Not hating on them at all, it's just that the evidence leads me toward a really great marketing dept. instead of really great sound & engineering. At least Ibanez isn't charging an arm & leg for a somewhat decent product (gibson!). I haven't played anything in the UV line, so I don't know if those stand out or what.


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## Phlegethon (Oct 10, 2009)

I'm going to assume that the OP has in fact been flamed to death already via PM so I'm not going to add to it or the thread 

while I do find it odd that he had build problems with his ibbys (I own two 321s, a six and a a seven) as they were higher end ibbys the problems he mentioned can happen, and if the same problem happens to the same person that would lead to "x" guitar maker sucks. 

I actually agree with him on ibanez guitars not sounding special 100% however I take that as a great strength as due to a run in with carpal tunnel I can basically only play ibanez RG's (flat radius/neck profile) so I need them to be able to sound like anything under the sun. problem is my 7321 has an identity crisis and thinks it's a 50's strat with the cleans it has going on with it . . LOL 

while his opinion is *definetley* unpopular around here (we're all pretty much gay for ibbys around here) he did present his argument without insults and used silly things such as "reasoning" and "properly applying personal preferences" and he doesn't like ibbys. I would've preferred a more detail oriented description as to why though, as I might've been able to learn something from that kind of detail but that's a minor point

and if he still has his ibbys he can stop by my place and give them to me if he needs a way to get rid of them *whistles innocently*


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Ibanez > All.
> 
> That's all i have to say about that.



And that´s exactly what I´m talking about -_-
Kind of reminds me of apple fanboys


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

Phlegethon said:


> I'm going to assume that the OP has in fact been flamed to death already via PM so I'm not going to add to it or the thread
> 
> while I do find it odd that he had build problems with his ibbys (I own two 321s, a six and a a seven) as they were higher end ibbys the problems he mentioned can happen, and if the same problem happens to the same person that would lead to "x" guitar maker sucks.
> 
> ...



As I said, it´s not like they´re bad in it´s own right. I just think they´re way overrated. I actually loved the UV7, how it played and sounded. But it did feel kind of cheap, just the feel you get picking it up you know, and I also had a lot of problems with it, just like the other two. They just feel rushed in a way.

I also said I sold them all  And probably never going back... I´ve never tried a LACS though, hehe


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Toshiro said:


> Yeah, like the basswood hate threads? Having an opinion is one thing, starting a bash thread is another. I could easily start a thread about how I think ESPs are vastly overpriced, or how Gibson/Fender pump out shit, but it's not a worthwhile thing to do, IMO.
> 
> Don't preach to me about how openminded the forum is dude, I've been on here 5 years.



It's not a hate thread dude, wtf?  



cataclysm_child said:


> First of all I just want to get one thing straight. *Ibanez guitars isn´t BAD.* Just waaay too overrated.



The proof is in the pudding: 



mattofvengeance said:


> I completely and wholeheartedly disagree, but everybody is different. Like Dave said, we're a fairly open minded bunch of dudes (and some females), so I don't think there's any reason to flame somebody for their opinion.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

whisper said:


> Although this really gets into subjective area, I agree. I feel this way about fender and gibson products as well. Not hating on them at all, it's just that the evidence leads me toward a really great marketing dept. instead of really great sound & engineering. At least Ibanez isn't charging an arm & leg for a somewhat decent product (gibson!). I haven't played anything in the UV line, so I don't know if those stand out or what.



I do think the Gibsons is waaaaay overrated too, more than ibanez actually, but I know a lot that not like them, even on this forum (the huf). But with ibanez it feels like everyone just like them you know.

I can see why people like fenders though. I think they sound great, but I don´t like how the neck plays very much.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Question: why is it OK for everyone to say Gibsons are overrated and everyone agrees, but the same thing is said about Ibanez then it's considered 'hate'? 

That doesn't make any sense.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

^If the majority have the same opinion it´s ok, if not, people say you´re just stupid


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## signalgrey (Oct 10, 2009)

because we just poked a hornets nest. hahaha.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

signalgrey said:


> because we just poked a hornets nest. hahaha.



OK but this is inspired by my Dark Knight thread, which is a film which is universally considered AMAZING and yet people had the brains to think "oh, this guy doesn't agree with me... big deal" rather than this knee-jerk reaction we're getting here.

Maybe the Movies and Media Forum has more considerate posters than General Music...


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

Its opinion at the end of the day. I love Ibanez, they feel comfortable, solid and sound great. Many a time someone has said 'Ibanez suck man play Agile/Fender/Gibson' or whatever, and its a silly point really because none of those companies appeal to me, so why would I play them. You can try and weigh up a guitar into the pros and cons, but at the end of the day its how you feel playing it. And honestly, apart from Ibanez the only guitars that have really made me feel like that are PRS and ESP, both of which either don't offer my specs or cost too much.

Granted, I'll probably tell many people that they should play Ibanez over whoever, and I know thats wrong. I can understand why people wouldn't liek them, and I can also understand why people love them.


Also, if they were overrated, they wouldn't sell. Simple as that.


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## JohnIce (Oct 10, 2009)

I agree, all the Ibanez guitars I've played have left me pretty uninspired. I owned a MIJ RG that got barely any play ever until I sold it. I was even playing one of those prestige S guitars that Herman used to have the other day and considering the price, it was quite balls.

Sure I'm not too keen on the feel and sound, but I'm not too keen on the feel and sound of my dad's LP Standard either and I can still see that it's a high-end guitar.

I did like some of the SA's though.

And as for most of us here being 7-stringers, in many cases it's kind of Ibby or Schecter, and that's it. That's why pretty much everyone here has an opinion on both of these companies. I personally love Schecter, but many don't.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

I've considered buying an S7320 many a time because of the sound and price, but I still think that overall, there's a lot of hype surrounding Ibanez on this forum that it just doesn't deserve 

As with everything, it all boils down to personal experience, so I can't see why some people are getting so touchy about it.


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## conorreich (Oct 10, 2009)

the only i ibby i ever like was an older prestige s series i played but it was about 4 years ago and about $1500. i played an rg7321 at gc a week or so ago and the neck was way too thin for me and i didnt like the feel of the body, but i could see how it would work for someone else.

i dont think they are overrated i just think they appeal to certain guitar players, which i am not one of.

now can we talk about overpriced?


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## bibz (Oct 10, 2009)

Current/modern ibanez aren't generally hitting the same marks they used to. They can still make great guitars, but they cost a whole fuckload more ($2.5k+ here, way too expensive). They've diluted even the 'prestige' branding unfortunately. 70's ibanez', especially custom agents, are fucking amazing guitars. Proline series is universally acclaimed also. But nowadays your standard ibby just isn't the same imo.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

conorreich said:


> now can we talk about overpriced?



Knock yourself out.

The main thing that bothers me about Ibanez is the non-inclusion of professional pickups as a way of cutting financial corners.

Honestly, who actually likes Ibanez pickups?


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Knock yourself out.
> 
> The main thing that bothers me about Ibanez is the non-inclusion of professional pickups as a way of cutting financial corners.
> 
> Honestly, who actually likes Ibanez pickups?



Pickups are rubbish this is true.


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## conorreich (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Knock yourself out.
> 
> The main thing that bothers me about Ibanez is the non-inclusion of professional pickups as a way of cutting financial corners.
> 
> Honestly, who actually likes Ibanez pickups?


i was going to mention that but i couldnt think of a nice way to put it. when i got my interceptor the previous owner took out the blaze(which im putting back in it) and put in one of the ibby stockers i derno which one and its killing me everytime i play. at least ltd uses duncan design and ibby used emg selects for a little while, and dimarzio "new" pups. i dunno what happened.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

conorreich said:


> i was going to mention that but i couldnt think of a nice way to put it. when i got my interceptor the previous owner took out the blaze(which im putting back in it) and put in one of the ibby stockers i derno which one and its killing me everytime i play. at least ltd uses duncan design and ibby used emg selects for a little while, and dimarzio "new" pups. i dunno what happened.



What happened was Ibanez thought "How can we save money?" and some funny fucker said "I know! Put WORSE pickups in our guitars and charge the customer MORE for the guitar!"


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## aphelion (Oct 10, 2009)

There have been some pretty spot on postings here, like vampiregenocide. It's all about feel, imho. I have a mate who swears by gibsons and I have never been comfortable playing them, I don't like the feel. I happen to love the way Ibanez 7's feel (play an RG7620 from around 1999/2000), though am not as crazy about the feel of the 6's.

The thing that confounds the Ibanez issue, for this forum anyway, is that they were the first (as far as I understand) commerically available mass produced sevens, and in a lot of places, the most likely first seven experience most of us have. Ibanez also has connotations of being a virtuouso's guitar, in terms of some of their endorsers, which adds to the appeal, and possibly why many feel they are overhyped. I know a lot of my fave players (especially the more technical ones) play Ibanez, or did at some point...


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## Harry (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Knock yourself out.
> 
> The main thing that bothers me about Ibanez is the non-inclusion of professional pickups as a way of cutting financial corners.
> 
> Honestly, who actually likes Ibanez pickups?



I believe Stitch commented a while back that the V7-8/V8-7 pickups are actually decent.
The problem is they get put mainly in basswood guitars which is the wrong match for them, but are apparently much nicer pickups in other body woods.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

aphelion said:


> The thing that confounds the Ibanez issue, for this forum anyway, is that they were the first (as far as I understand) commerically available mass produced sevens, and in a lot of places, the most likely first seven experience most of us have. Ibanez also has connotations of being a virtuouso's guitar, in terms of some of their endorsers, which adds to the appeal, and possibly why many feel they are overhyped. I know a lot of my fave players (especially the more technical ones) play Ibanez, or did at some point...



Absolutely, Ibanez did a world of good for the Seven String community, but modern Ibanez is a joke, even Ibanez fanboys acknowledge that.

You're right about it being the "virtuoso's guitar" too, but all of the best shredders I know play ESP


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## JohnIce (Oct 10, 2009)

aphelion said:


> The thing that confounds the Ibanez issue, for this forum anyway, is that they were the first (as far as I understand) commerically available mass produced sevens, and in a lot of places, the most likely first seven experience most of us have. Ibanez also has connotations of being a virtuouso's guitar, in terms of some of their endorsers, which adds to the appeal, and possibly why many feel they are overhyped. I know a lot of my fave players (especially the more technical ones) play Ibanez, or did at some point...


 
They did make the first production 7's, but not much has happended since then. Schecter for example offer several different lines of 7's with different pickups and bridges etc. iat several price points, not to mention several finishes, so I don't think Ibby can really claim to be at any sort of forefront with 7's.


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## aphelion (Oct 10, 2009)

@scar symmetry: totally, in the last few years, there have been some amazing players playng ESPs, but don't leave out Caparison (I know Michael Romeo plays six and used to play ESP, but man, is he a selling point for Caparison for me!)

@JohnIce: I get you. I think, as has been stated on this post (or implied), and as what seems to happen with most business, ibanez were in an amazing position of being on top, and then started cutting corners, while other companies have actually been listening more to what the customers want...I, for example, love maple fingerboards, a legacy of having played a maple board strat for a good number of years. It took Ibanez a very long time to have that as an option, as far as I know...

Am yet to try a shecter 7, trut be told, but I could see myself becoming a Loomis fanboy


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## TomParenteau (Oct 10, 2009)

I guess some people like basswood. A lot of people like the slim neck profile. If that's what they like, it's not overrated.

I don't like either of those things. Even with my small hands, my thumb likes a good place to be. So Ibanez are not my favorite. Doesn't mean they're bad.

And the pickups? I put a JB in my GiO. GiO! The sleaziest Ibanez ever, not worthy of the name. I barely noticed any difference from the stock pickup. That means that Seymour Duncans are not nearly as good as they used to be, and stock Ibanez pickups aren't all that bad. If the bridge pickup in a lowly GiO is acceptable, the pickups in real Ibanez models can't be bad.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

TomPerverteau said:


> the pickups in real Ibanez models can't be bad.



You don't know the half of it


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

Ibanez > for production guitars.

I also believe that an Ibanez LACS will probably outplay any other custom guitar.


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## JohnIce (Oct 10, 2009)

With many of the top, most famous shredders, they are offered large sums of money to play these guitars though. And in this day and age, there's barely any market for all-out shredheads, and for all we know there could be plenty of awesome players staying under the radar but still being incredible musicians. I just discovered Andy Wood the other day, monster player, and he plays Suhr guitars... like Guthrie Govan, another less-than-famous but still top shelf player.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

JohnIce said:


> They did make the first production 7's, but not much has happended since then. Schecter for example offer several different lines of 7's with *different pickups and bridges etc. iat several price points, not to mention several finishes, so I don't think Ibby can really claim to be at any sort of forefront with 7's.*



Ibanez have 7 strings ranging in price range of £300-£1500.

They have more finishes than Schecter (which are normally red, black or white).

They have several kinds of bridges.

They may lack active pickups, but only a couple of schecter 7s have passives that I've seen.


In my opinion, the only thing Schecter does better than Ibanez is left handed models.


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## aphelion (Oct 10, 2009)

True...I know I wouldn't turn down huge sums of money to endorse (at least decent) equipment if it made me more able to do this fulltime...

And true about the unknown players. The most astounding guitarist I have ever heard was a friend of my uncles. Incredibly quiet, introverted Japanese guy. Socially awkward and jumpy, very gentle. Never knew he played. One day, I was jamming in my room, he asks to try my guitar and shreds like an absolute demon, then plays some beautiful chords, then shyly puts down the guitar, almost embaressed and made a point of telling every one else how much he enjoyed their playing!

but more on topic: I may also eventually go Ibanez again, now that I can get a maple board...


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## TomParenteau (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> You don't know the half of it


 
I actually do. I wouldn't play stock pickups because they always suck. I need sensitivity, and stock pickups on production guitars never cut it. 

OK, I agree. The stock pickups are junk, but modern Seymours aren't much better.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

What an interesting thread!


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

vampiregenocide said:


> Ibanez have 7 strings ranging in price range of £300-£1500.
> 
> They have more finishes than Schecter (which are normally red, black or white).
> 
> ...




And even then, if you are left handed and don't like huge necks then you are up the creek!


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## Metal Ken (Oct 10, 2009)

I feel the same way as OP in this thread. I used to think ibanez was the bee's knees and shit. Then, I got tired of my cheaper non-basswood guitars sounding better than my expensive universes no matter what pickups were in there. So i decided to get away from Basswood guitars. And since i start trying other brands, i really found that the only thing ibanez has going for them (IMO) is a couple of their trems and their neck profiles.


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## Koshchei (Oct 10, 2009)

I used Ibbys for quite a while and share all the same complaints. They're nice guitars, but they're nowhere near as good as people trick themselves into believing.

Ibanez have some very innovative designs and ideas, which are, for the most part, excellent (I'm looking at you, 7 string and ZR), that they then manage to nickle and dime into some horrid cheap pot-metal nightmare that will break every three months with regular use. It's like the R&D Department is working inside an Accounting Department concentration camp, that no idea can escape from without being cheapened to the point that it's crap, no matter how good it originally was.

It's frustrating, because Ibanez could be REALLY good, but isn't.


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## renzoip (Oct 10, 2009)

I think Ibanez are good. I used to be a major Ibby fanboy myself but ever since I switched over to Carvin, there is no going back.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> I feel the same way as OP in this thread. I used to think ibanez was the bee's knees and shit. Then, I got tired of my cheaper non-basswood guitars sounding better than my expensive universes no matter what pickups were in there. So i decided to get away from Basswood guitars. And since i start trying other brands, i really found that the only thing ibanez has going for them (IMO) is a couple of their trems and their neck profiles.





Koshchei said:


> I used Ibbys for quite a while and share all the same complaints. They're nice guitars, but they're nowhere near as good as people trick themselves into believing.
> 
> Ibanez have some very innovative designs and ideas, which are, for the most part, excellent (I'm looking at you, 7 string and ZR), that they then manage to nickle and dime into some horrid cheap pot-metal nightmare that will break every three months with regular use. It's like the R&D Department is working inside an Accounting Department concentration camp, that no idea can escape from without being cheapened to the point that it's crap, no matter how good it originally was.
> 
> It's frustrating, because Ibanez could be REALLY good, but isn't.



Both of these are spot on


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

my opinion (which is total crap btw...) is that the higher up in the price you go with ibanez, the less value...

their cheaper and midrange guitars have a lot to offer in their price range, but then the more you pay you realize, "wow, i still have shitty pickups and blah blah..."

just an opinion from a 5 time ibanez owner.


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## scottro202 (Oct 10, 2009)

I agree with whoever said Ibanez is about feel. Some people LOVE their necks, some don't. Also, all the virtuoso players play basswood guitars (for the most part), because basswood has a nice tone for leads, cuts through well in a band mix. 

I have an RG5EX1, and it's a good guitar. Pickups suck, but eh. Everything else is fine. I don't use it that much, but when I start recording and need solos (that don't require a B string), you know I'll be using that guitar alot. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a good rhythm tone IMO, so it stays home a lot.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> my opinion (which is total crap btw...) is that the higher up in the price you go with ibanez, the less value...
> 
> their cheaper and midrange guitars have a lot to offer in their price range, but then the more you pay you realize, "wow, i still have shitty pickups and blah blah..."
> 
> just an opinion from a 5 time ibanez owner.



I got Mahogany and Dimarzio pickups in mine, what more do you want? Pickups with coils made from Tibetan monks hair?


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

scottro202 said:


> Paul Gilbert, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, John Petrucci (Before he went to MM), and Muhammad Sucimez don't ring out in your mind as "the best shredders"?



 

I don't know them personally you idiot!


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## scottro202 (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I don't know them personally you idiot!


 

O, I didn't know THAT's what you meant!! I'm so sorry!!  When you said "know" I thought meant know their stuff or something.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

scottro202 said:


> O, I didn't know THAT's what you meant!! I'm so sorry!!  When you said "know" I thought meant know their stuff or something.



Nah man 

All the dudes I know (as in friends ) use ESP, I don't know a single guy who is sick at shredding and doesn't use ESP. 

Funnily enough, it doesn't have anything to do with me loving ESP myself, but some sick famous shredders use ESP too i.e. Alexi Laiho, Richie Sambora, Gus G.


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## stevee (Oct 10, 2009)

I have an Ibanez RG2550Z and I'm really happy with it.
But what i really want is a john petrucci family reserve signature.
Which cost a fortune lol.


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I got Mahogany and Dimarzio pickups in mine, what more do you want? Pickups with coils made from Tibetan monks hair?



do they still make the K7?


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> do they still make the K7?



Nope. The APEX1 replaced the K7.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> do they still make the K7?



Nope, but they make the Apex 1 (same thing but with leather finish and different inlays) and the Apex 2 (budget model, £499ish, same pickups as the Prestige one, mahogany body).

Honestly, for all of the people that whinge about the low quality of the cheaper Ibanez 7s, why not just buy an Apex? You get Mahogany, Dimarzios (not the best pickups as imo they are too fat and wooly, but Dimarzios all the same) and the Ibanez thin neck that everyone loves, and it costs less than an RG1527.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

^ I'd rather an S7320.

22 frets  and Ibanez pickups 

But it sounds pretty good 

I'd have to try both before deciding though.


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## scottro202 (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> ^ I'd rather an S7320.
> 
> 22 frets  and Ibanez pickuos
> 
> ...


 
I'd rather have an S series too. That was my second choice before going with my Agile


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## Bobo (Oct 10, 2009)

I have to agree with those saying that it looks like Ibby gets bashed around here a lot....making it kinda hard to be overrated. 

I think a cheap guitar is usually just a cheap guitar. Meaning whether it's ESP, Agile, Schecter, Epiphone, whatever, it's much more likely to have some issues.


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

My coffee-fueled rant for today:

My opinion is that Ibanez are like Honda cars, for several reasons. My wife has a Honda CRV. Great car, that thing never breaks down, has about 150,000 miles on it now, and will run for another 150,000 at least. My problem is that I just don't fit in the damn thing. It is the most uncomfortable driver seat I have ever experienced. I hit my knees on the steering wheel whenever I drive, and if I go on a trip, I'm sore the next day. Also, the entire car is boring and dull; no character. Nothing is shiny or pretty on the dash and its a poop brown. The exterior has no sleek contours; it's like a box on wheels. With that said, Honda is designed to be the most cost effective, most efficient, longest lasting vehicle out there.

My view on Ibanez is the same. They started as strat and les paul knockoffs. Basically to avoid lawsuits and licensings, they became their own brand. Ever see a stock Ibanez with a non-ibanez trem, or non Ibanez pickups? Rarely. Even most of their 'branded' pickups are made for them by different companies (i.e.designed by EMG, Duncan/Ibanez, DiMarzio MiJ(new 7, anyone?) All parts are Ibanez parts, to be cost effective. They make an Edge 3 or ZR so they don't have to pay Floyd Rose. The RG bodys are flat, front and back, shaving time from the manufacturing process. The paint falls off like a stripper's clothes on a shower stage. Cost effective and efficient. Do they make great guitars? 9 times out of 10, yes. Compare a 1999 rg7 with a 99 Schecter or Washburn 7 and there's no contest. However Schecter blows them away now as far as features and build quality imo.

My problem is that Ibanez have cut costs continuously,(MiK,MiI, and now China) yet the prices are higher. $1800 for an rg2228? $2000 for an Apex 1? A Schecter costs half that, and an Agile costs a third, and they are still making money. I think the Ibanez guitars play well honestly. It's the company's greed and its business model I have a problem with, which is why I'm going back to Schecters.


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## Nats (Oct 10, 2009)

conorreich said:


> t
> now can we talk about overpriced?



werd. i paid 600 for my 1527 new and now i see they're over a grand and still have stock pickups and aren't made of solid gold....


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Nope, but they make the Apex 1 (same thing but with leather finish and different inlays) and the Apex 2 (budget model, £499ish, same pickups as the Prestige one, mahogany body).
> 
> Honestly, for all of the people that whinge about the low quality of the cheaper Ibanez 7s, why not just buy an Apex? You get Mahogany, Dimarzios (not the best pickups as imo they are too fat and wooly, but Dimarzios all the same) and the Ibanez thin neck that everyone loves, and it costs less than an RG1527.



the RG1527 has a trem and costs $1200

the trem equipped Apex costs 2 grand on MF...


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## troyguitar (Oct 10, 2009)

I think most new guitars are overpriced, Carvin and some smaller luthiers like Roter being the exceptions.

I've also never played any guitar that couldn't play just as well as any other guitar with some amount of setup work and possibly swapping out a few components, this includes my old Chinese strat copy that cost $99 new...

So given both of those points, yes I think Ibanez is overrated. However for me, my used RG7420 is the best value ever in a 7-string. One day I'll grab a Carvin DC747 but for now the 7420 plays and sounds fine even with the stock pickups (it's hard to sound bad through the IIC+!).


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## canuck brian (Oct 10, 2009)

Hell I gotta get in on this.

I actually own 3 Ibanez guitars at this point (RBM1, RG770, S540PII) and I love them to death. That being said, the inlay work on them blows. So much filler. They play fantastic having the old school wizard 2 neck with nice quartersawn maple (pau ferro on the RBM1).

I've played a LOT of the prestige Ibanez guitars and a lot of the non-Prestige. I find the Prestige stuff to be really hit or miss. I've played one of the pink sparkly RGA's recently that just kicked all kinds of ass and I recently took photos of one in Steves music here in Toronto because I couldn't comprehend that they let the damn thing out of their shop. Crooked side indicators, chips out of the humbucker route...this is a 2K guitar here. I recently tried one of the new Uni's as well and for 3 grand Canadian, I would really like someone to cut and install the pickguard properly. I saw one of these things recently sanded down and I was disappointed to find out that there are no inlays on the body, just abalone stickers. 3 grand? Why? 

I did sit down recently with one of the new S7 models and was really impressed. Great guitar for the money. I dunno, I'm more impressed by the non-prestige stuff Ibanez puts out. 
I started looking at the prices of the Ibanez guitars for this year and you're seriously not getting what you pay for considering what is on the market. Lemme fire a couple of examples. 

Here's the RG2228 for 1799.99.

Now, I'm not even a Schecter fan, but this is what Schecter offers their customers in an 8 string. for 899.99, nearly $1000 less. 

8 string schecter

Whatever the arguement here, it's not what I want, i dont' like the look, etc. It's a carvetop, set neck, Grover tuners, the same EMG pickups, mahogany body....Seriously? Where's the 1000 extra coming from with that Ibanez? I'm certain the RG2228 is a great guitar (i've tried 3 or 4 now) but the price is out to lunch.

Old school Universes are not overrated. I thin out of the 20 I've played, I've only disliked 1 and that was because it was in F#.


With Ibanez's factory changes (Indonesia, Japan, whereever), the quality of the guitars that I see in stores consistently goes down.


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## AbstractAsylum (Oct 10, 2009)

I like Schecter and Agile a lot better. I think Fender and Gibson are more overrated than Ibanez, but they're also more consistent with quality, I've heard. Schecter ftw.


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## technomancer (Oct 10, 2009)

Ok first off I find it sad that we're up to 8 pages and nobody has mentioned the GLARING TYPO in the thread title... "Ibanez guitars is way overrated" GUITARS ARE subject verb agreement folks... but then again I fucking hate it when people butcher english as it just grates on my nerves 

That said I don't know that Ibanez guitars are overrated, but they're definitely overpriced. It's been a long time since I've been impressed with Ibanez, and honestly the Ibanez guitars I've owned that impressed me were all older models (S7420, UV7PWH) and even the PWH impressed me with its playability though I never got along with how it sounded.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

Looks like I´m not alone with my opinion. I´m actually surprised. Expected a lot more hate


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> the RG1527 has a trem and costs $1200
> 
> the trem equipped Apex costs 2 grand on MF...



Obviously having outlined the cheapness of the Apex2 ($900 maybe) I was referring to that when I suggested all the budget buyers go for Apex models, obviously not the prestige one, which does run a high price.


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## mikernaut (Oct 10, 2009)

1st I gotta say I have to commend everyone for having a civil debate. I saw the thread title and was like "ohhh this could get ugly".

*Long winded hangover essay warning( I'm kinda talky under the booze)*

Now comparing guitar brands is always a touchy subject. It's kind like debating art. There's always going to be personal preferences and people defending what they like and don't like. I could name plenty of popular artists I think are hacks, hah

but anywhooo . Ibanez has great marketing and public awareness. They also have crazy thin necks and are very easy to play. There's not much fighting against the player I guess is my point.

IWhen I started guitar I was into somewhat low end Kramers and even a BC Rich Warlock. Then I saved up my money and bought a Ibanez Saber 540ltd and was pretty blown away with the jump in quality and playability.
I think this was what I would now consider my 1st good guitar. 

I also grew up in the 80's where Jackson really had strong marketing presence and I was like "man one day I hope I can afford a USA Jackson"
That day didn't come for awhile until after I actually was out of high school and got a real job.

I actually had bought a import Jackson to tide me over. When I did finally buy that 1st USA Jackson once again I was like "Damn these are really nice!"
The build quality and note clarity was instantly apparent.
So that made it hard to go back to Ibanez or even a Jackson import. 

Then there's always been the rivalry of Jackson vs ESP. So now being a USA select Jackson convert I was like "yeah I dunno about ESP's" that and ESP really got popular and drew in the younger (sometimes annoying) crowd. 
So I was totally turned off by ESP. Although I did give then a shot and tried an older M1 and a 1st run white SRC. While they looked very cool they were very thin and lifeless so this just further enhanced my displeasure for ESP.

I then fell in love with Stephen Carpenter's Camo ESP so on a total whim I decided to get my own camo Horizon custom done . Now in the back of my head I was like "OK if this guitar doesn't impress me I know ESP's aren't for me and I'll stick with my Jacksons" Well the thing blew me away and totally changed my opinion. I now have 4 ESP's in my collection and 3 Jackson's. 

I also used to despise BC Rich, because lets face it they flood the market with their lower end budget imports. But then I got my hands on a few USA/Customs and I couldn't believe the difference. So sometimes what you pay for is what you get.

LOL and now that I own a Rico Jr I once again am going "Holy Crap this is even on another level!" 

Now back to Ibanez.... I do love their thin necks and always loved me the 540pII and RG shapes. But they just didn't feel like they had that "alive" feeling when I compared them to other guitars in the collection. Although I have never played a JCustom or Prestige, so maybe those when change my impression.
Yet I did own the ICJ100WZ Iceman ( J. Yuenger Sig.) and that Ibanez was a beast and impressed the hell out of me. It could do vintage sounding stuff aswell as rock and metal. It was a tone machine.

So I guess my long winded point is there's always going to be hit and miss guitars from every brand. It's just going to come down to what guitars/brand you are comfortable with and what suits you playing. Everyone gets passionate about their fave guitars/brands, but try not to be narrow minded and give other things a chance before just coming to the conclusion that a certain brand is total garbage.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

technomancer said:


> Ok first off I find it sad that we're up to 8 pages and nobody has mentioned the GLARING TYPO in the thread title... "Ibanez guitars is way overrated" GUITARS ARE subject verb agreement folks... but then again I fucking hate it when people butcher english as it just grates on my nerves
> 
> That said I don't know that Ibanez guitars are overrated, but they're definitely overpriced. It's been a long time since I've been impressed with Ibanez, and honestly the Ibanez guitars I've owned that impressed me were all older models (S7420, UV7PWH) and even the PWH impressed me with its playability though I never got along with how it sounded.



I actually just copy/pasted the dark knight overrated thread and replaced it with ibanez guitars, hehe. Then again, I´ve never really learned when to use is and are so I just randomly pick what feels right


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

Ibanez specs aren't as good as what you pay for (basswood basswood everywhere! Argh!) but they are solid guitars there is no doubt about that. I've always felt that Schecters of the same price felt much cheaper.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

I_infect said:


> My coffee-fueled rant for today:
> 
> My opinion is that Ibanez are like Honda cars, for several reasons. My wife has a Honda CRV. Great car, that thing never breaks down, has about 150,000 miles on it now, and will run for another 150,000 at least. My problem is that I just don't fit in the damn thing. It is the most uncomfortable driver seat I have ever experienced. I hit my knees on the steering wheel whenever I drive, and if I go on a trip, I'm sore the next day. Also, the entire car is boring and dull; no character. Nothing is shiny or pretty on the dash and its a poop brown. The exterior has no sleek contours; it's like a box on wheels. With that said, Honda is designed to be the most cost effective, most efficient, longest lasting vehicle out there.



Honda have no character? Really? 

Here is a quick pictorial of the Hondas I have driven / ridden.

Honda Civic







Honda Civic Type R






















Also on the list, I've ridden Honda's Blackbird (179mph top speed) and CBR600, but didn't want to flood the thread with pics. How can you say these don't have character? They make some of the most distinctive vehicles on the market today, if you believe they don't have character (and don't ride bikes) test drive a Civic Type R, get it into 3rd gear and floor it, then tell me you couldn't feel any character!


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## troyguitar (Oct 10, 2009)

If you were to treat the subject "Ibanez Guitars" as a single proper noun then "is" would be correct. 

is = singular and are = plural.


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## ellengtrgrl (Oct 10, 2009)

HAUCH said:


> I think it has more to do with function and feel. Ibanez stuff has a certain feel, and it doesn't appeal to everyone.


 
 yeah, that certainly is part of it, along with the sound. I also think it depends upon what line of Ibbys you're talking about. I don't mind the Artist Series and Artcore Series (I used to have an AS73T Artcore, and an AS120 Artstar, that were pretty decent sounding and playing, ES-335 type guitars), but get into any of the RG derived Ibbys (most of their 7-strings, and all of their 8-strings), and you've lost me. The neck profile is only OK for me (a little too flat for my tastes), and I've yet to hear an RG, that has (to me) decent bass levels in it's tone. They all sound kind of midrangey to me. Quality-wise, with the exception of their cheapest guitars, Ibbys have pretty decent quality IMO. My Artstar was built very well, and it's Super 58 pickups sounded like PAFs on steriods (the only reason I got rid of it, is because I never really grew to like the way ES-335 style guitars look).


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

mikernaut said:


> So I guess my long winded point is there's always going to be hit and miss guitars from every brand. It's just going to come down to what guitars/brand you are comfortable with and what suits you playing. Everyone gets passionate about their fave guitars/brands, but try not to be narrow minded and give other things a chance before just coming to the conclusion that a certain brand is total garbage.



And this is why I first bought an ibanez and then another one, and then another one after that again. I like to give it a chance.
I´ve even thought about getting an UV7 one more time, because I did like it a lot, maybe I only was unlucky with all the trouble I got with it you know. Then again, I didn´t like the floyd and I´m not a fan of rosewood fretboard, so I´m pretty sure I´m not going back to ibanez again.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> If you were to treat the subject "Ibanez Guitars" as a single proper noun then "is" would be correct.
> 
> is = singular and are = plural.



Ah... is it that easy? Hehe. Well, thanks for the lesson


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Honda have no character? Really?
> 
> Here is a quick pictorial of the Hondas I have driven / ridden.
> 
> *HONDA STUFF*



wow I'm guessing you aren't in the states, that civic looks way weird...

/OT


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Honda have no character? Really?
> 
> How can you say these don't have character? They make some of the most distinctive vehicles on the market today, if you believe they don't have character (and don't ride bikes) test drive a Civic Type R, get it into 3rd gear and floor it, then tell me you couldn't feel any character!




I'll agree that Hondas are great cars, and are easily modded and customized. They are no doubt the best built cars(along with Toyota) on the market. What I am referring to is not the pictures you posted, which are more the exception than the rule, but every run of the mill Accord, Civic, and CRV I see on the road. Just very boring to me aesthetically, inside and out, and in that regard, no character. It's a car, and does what it needs to do, but are pretty plain jane. Like the pretty girl in school who you know would be uber-hot if she she just did her hair and wore nicer clothes. And in THAT regards, I am comparing them to Ibanez. Except Ibanez are greedier.


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

I infect, have you seen the dash of the civic?

its looks straight out of star trek.


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 10, 2009)

I would like to add something to this thread. 

I drive a Toyota Corolla, and I would die for my 1527M. Best guitar I've ever played, and I've played a lot of shit.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

What the fuck? How did we get from MIJ Ibanez to Toyota Corolla?


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> What the fuck? How did we get from MIJ Ibanez to Toyota Corolla?



lmao. As many honda and toyota fans are there Ibby fans. Just my opinion guys.



Customisbetter said:


> I infect, have you seen the dash of the civic?
> 
> its looks straight out of star trek.



Not the new models no, so I can't comment. Body wise, they are still pretty non-descript though. imo.



SerratedSkies said:


> I would like to add something to this thread.
> 
> I drive a Toyota Corolla, and I would die for my 1527M. Best guitar I've ever played, and I've played a lot of shit.



Great guitar. Just not $1200 great imo. I'm sure alot of Agile owners would agree with me on that. That's my beef with Ibanez. And I like the look of the Corrolas.


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## aphelion (Oct 10, 2009)

technomancer said:


> That said I don't know that Ibanez guitars are overrated, but they're definitely overpriced.




Um, the irony is that you are correcting grammar, but I think that you may have meant to say "that said I don't know whether ibanez"

I'm just saying...And also, cause I feel bad for not seeing the original error you pointed out.


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## Koshchei (Oct 10, 2009)

scottro202 said:


> I agree with whoever said Ibanez is about feel. Some people LOVE their necks, some don't. Also, all the virtuoso players play basswood guitars (for the most part), because basswood has a nice tone for leads, cuts through well in a band mix.



This is an appeal to false authority and it's also flat out wrong. Virtuosi are a dime a dozen (mastering Hanon exercises on guitar isn't really that hard, and all the criticisms hold true about how focusing exclusively on physical technique dulls the musical senses), and they play every sort of guitar out there to good effect.


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## technomancer (Oct 10, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> If you were to treat the subject "Ibanez Guitars" as a single proper noun then "is" would be correct.
> 
> is = singular and are = plural.



Except it's not... Ibanez is an adjective describing the subject, guitars. Guitars are plural. And even treating it as a proper noun, Ibanez guitars are still plural. 

Ibanez is overrated
Guitars are overrated
Ibanez guitars are overrated
An Ibanez guitar is overrated


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 10, 2009)

I_infect said:


> Great guitar. Just not $1200 great imo. I'm sure alot of Agile owners would agree with me on that. That's my beef with Ibanez. And I like the look of the Corrolas.



I happen to have gotten a discount. Yes it was brand new, right out of the box.

Ibanez.
Honda.
Agile.
Toyota.


This thread hurts brains, but I still love my 2009 1527M and my 2005 Corolla S.

Edit: I HAVE TO MENTION THIS!

How many of you, on somewhat of a daily basis, accidentally say "guitar" instead of "car" or vice versa? God damn, I know my friends and I always do this, and it's either funny, or frustrating.


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

SerratedSkies said:


> This thread hurts brains, but I still love my 2009 1527M and my 2005 Corolla S.


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

i Love my Ibby RG hard tails and my 93 honda civic. 



technomancer said:


> Ibanez is overrated
> Guitars are overrated
> Ibanez guitars are overrated
> An Ibanez guitar is overrated



I read this 4 times thinking it was a truth table and getting totally confused.


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

SerratedSkies said:


> I happen to have gotten a discount. Yes it was brand new, right out of the box.



So for sake of argument, would you consider it to be worth $1200, or would it be overrated for the price?


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## Koshchei (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> i Love my Ibby RG hard tails and my 93 honda civic.



But, as inanimate objects, do they love you?


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## Customisbetter (Oct 10, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> But, as inanimate objects, do they love you?



not a chance.

i never clean them either... so that isn't helping the situation.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 10, 2009)

I've had several Prestiges and loved them. I've played one that I didn't like, and that's all. I have (soon to be had) a 1527M and its definitely worth the $1200 price tag. The 1570's are one of the best values on the market right now, as far as 6 string shred machines go, without question. My RGA321F blows nearly every guitar I've ever played out of the water. I'm going to go ahead and imagine that the OP hasn't played something like the RGA321F, and if he has, I'm just baffled as to how he can say these guitars are so awful.

In any case, different strokes, but there are some pure quality Ibby's out there, and I'm sure there's some duds, but you'll have that with any company. Personally, I just can't get over the necks - with a good fret job, they make you feel like a true champion. Proven fact.


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 10, 2009)

I_infect said:


> So for sake of argument, would you consider it to be worth $1200, or would it be overrated for the price?



I like that you brought this up. I was in the market for a new guitar but I literally had no money upfront for it, so I decided to take out a loan that would be payed back 100 dollars a paycheck. Although I did not spend my entire $1300 on my 1527, at this point it wouldn't matter to me because I'm pretty satisfied with what I paid/am paying for it. Yes, it's pretty overpriced, and yes, you are pretty much paying for the word "Prestige", but it's more about what you want than what you pay. I'm not a rich dude by any means, but I fell in love with the guitar from the get go, and that's really what it means to be an Ibanez fan.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 10, 2009)

Customisbetter said:


> I infect, have you seen the dash of the civic?
> 
> its looks straight out of star trek.



It's the inside of a Nuclear sub any time I happen to be sitting in one


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## djpharoah (Oct 10, 2009)

I figure I'd put in my  in this thread as I've whored out a large number of Ibanez 7s over my tenure here at ss.org.

I can say the over rated part of Ibanez comes with newer than say 2003 guitars. After this particular year I have not found any one guitar from ibanez that sounded, played or was even built as well as something from the early 90s or early '00s.

The truly great sounding and playing guitars from Ibanez that I've played and have said dayam - this is good are in order.
1) My current 2027 (best guitar I've played to date)
2) 01 K7-BG (i really regret selling this one )
3) UV7PWH 
4) RG7620CG (Cayman Green - my first RG7620)

These guitars just sounded beautiful acoustically and then insane with the right pups. However I will agree to some extent that Ibanez has a hit or miss with the basswood guitars. I've had a UV7BK before that just failed to inspire me...


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

SerratedSkies said:


> I like that you brought this up. I was in the market for a new guitar but I literally had no money upfront for it, so I decided to take out a loan that would be payed back 100 dollars a paycheck. Although I did not spend my entire $1300 on my 1527, at this point it wouldn't matter to me because I'm pretty satisfied with what I paid/am paying for it. Yes, it's pretty overpriced, and yes, you are pretty much paying for the word "Prestige", but it's more about what you want than what you pay. I'm not a rich dude by any means, but I fell in love with the guitar from the get go, and that's really what it means to be an Ibanez fan.



I'm glad you got a deal on it and they really are nice guitars. I have the RB one. In all honesty I own around 16 different Ibbys. My favorites are the S7320 and Apex-2. None of mine I paid full price for either; I either picked them used or price-matched different companies, sales, coupons etc. BUT Ibanez is banking on brand loyalty, and in that regard are overrated. The turn of last year('08-'09) Both the 1527 and the 2228 jumped $200 in price. Why? Because they can? Did basswood costs really go up that much? Just irks me.



djpharoah said:


> I figure I'd put in my  in this thread as I've whored out a large number of Ibanez 7s over my tenure here at ss.org.
> 
> I can say the over rated part of Ibanez comes with newer than say 2003 guitars. After this particular year I have not found any one guitar from ibanez that sounded, played or was even built as well as something from the early 90s or early '00s.
> However I will agree to some extent that Ibanez has a hit or miss with the basswood guitars. I've had a UV7BK before that just failed to inspire me...



 agree wholeheartedly. I started out on a 7421. Ibby's a few years, went to Schecter, had a short-lived affair with Ibby again, now I'm back to playing my Schecters almost exclusively.


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 10, 2009)

Ibanez is essentially the new age Gibson, not to say Gibson isn't overhyped and overpriced either. As far as brand loyalty, you have to think about what got them there, and what's keeping this brand loyalty strong. Price disappoints, but the quality is still pretty much all there.


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## Koshchei (Oct 10, 2009)

SerratedSkies said:


> Ibanez is essentially the new age Gibson



I think you're more on the mark than you could possibly know. Corporate arrogance and complacency got Gibson to their nadir in the 1970s, which gave rise to brands like Ibanez. Ibanez has fallen prey to the same instincts in the 00s, which is giving rise to brands like Agile.


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

SerratedSkies said:


> Ibanez is essentially the new age Gibson, not to say Gibson isn't overhyped and overpriced either. As far as brand loyalty, you have to think about what got them there, and what's keeping this brand loyalty strong. Price disappoints, but the quality is still pretty much all there.



True, Ibby needs to remember who they were and what got them here though. Gibson and Fender did the same thing, and Ibanez were one of the companies making clones, undercutting Gibson. Keep an eye on Agile; they are getting more popular by the day offering models and features at cutthroat prices. They are to Ibanez what Ibanez was to Gibson.



Koshchei said:


> I think you're more on the mark than you could possibly know. Corporate arrogance and complacency got Gibson to their nadir in the 1970s, which gave rise to brands like Ibanez. Ibanez has fallen prey to the same instincts in the 00s, which is giving rise to brands like Agile.


 beat me to it!

Hell, I bought a Douglas Spad for $150... apart from a high 19th fret and cheap pickups/hardware, it compares to a Schecter Blackjack.


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 10, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> I think you're more on the mark than you could possibly know.



Did you just call me a moron? 
Lame pun intended.

I plan on investing in an Agile, before Agile does to itself what every major brand guitar company has done, which is either get bought out, or make shittier production model guitars.


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## troyguitar (Oct 10, 2009)

technomancer said:


> Except it's not... Ibanez is an adjective describing the subject, guitars. Guitars are plural. And even treating it as a proper noun, Ibanez guitars are still plural.
> 
> Ibanez is overrated
> Guitars are overrated
> ...



That's why I put the "If" in there. There are proper nouns that look plural but are in fact singular, take Jackson Stars for example.


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## thesimo (Oct 10, 2009)

FAILL

i got my ibanez out today for first time in months, and it still holds its own against my ran. Ibanez just have sick tone. simple as that.



I_infect said:


> It is the most uncomfortable driver seat I have ever experienced. I hit my knees on the steering wheel whenever I drive, and if I go on a trip, I'm sore the next day.



I'm 6ft 8 and I drive a honda civic  get one of those.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 10, 2009)

^Main Seven: Ran Custom 7

I rest my case


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## thesimo (Oct 10, 2009)

OHHHHHHHHH that hurt!!!


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## lefty robb (Oct 10, 2009)

I've played quite a few different guitar brands over the years, ESP (LTD), Ibanez, Jackson (japan), Carvin, Kramer (post buyout), Schecter, Agile, and I just keep going back to Ibanez. For me its the quality and playability, and those damn necks!! Its like that favorite shirt you wear all the time!! The only guitar that came very close was the Jackson, it was just a damn good guitar and the neck was great, even if it was one of the cheaper ones, I would love to get my hands on a USA Customer shop Jackson.

I'm still on the fence about the "overpriced" thing. On one hand, they have really good guitars for under $500, some great guitars in the $500-$1200 range, and some sick guitars in the $1200-$2400 range. I think that the $500-1200 range, especially in the 2nd hand market, is where Ibanez really shines, the guitars are still priced in the range most can afford and there's quality and playability the back it up.

Bottom line, its your money spend it where you want, I just spent $2700 on a new Ibanez Jem and can't wait to get it in.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

thesimo said:


> Ibanez just have sick tone. simple as that.



Way to give a solid argument


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## I_infect (Oct 10, 2009)

thesimo said:


> FAILL
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 6ft 8 and I drive a honda civic  get one of those.



I need to sell some of my Ibanez first.  And just because you drive it doesn't mean it's comfortable....


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## 8Fingers (Oct 10, 2009)

Just like any label of anything out there,ibanez has crap,good and awesome stuff.It all depends how much you have to spend.
And I'm tired of seeing people who can't even set their guitars properly saying this or that label is crap.These days my main guitars are ibbz prestige rg 1527,esp MII de luxe and esp LTD something.They have really different prices which goes from 600 usd to 2000 usd.They have awesome fretjob,their action is almost touching the strings,always in tune and their trems work perfectly.So ltd is a cheap guitar,Esp MII is a mid price and Prestige is expensive it means that sometimes what people call by cheap or crap ISN'T.My ltd plays the same as my prestige and 600 usd to 2000 usd is a damn huge difference.Maybe I got lucky with a good model but asking some people who had the same model too they said they love their ltds.I never saw someone complaining about rg1527 too and don't forget that people make mistakes,sometimes a worker having a bad day cam make a bad guitar so luck is in the way too.
Anyway I don't care about labels,if I like its looking and it feels good when I play it,I WANT IT.
It could be an ibbz or a CASIO guitar


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## thesimo (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Way to give a solid argument



well yea  i could go into a load of airy fairy crap about feel and shit. But thats not relevant to anyone else as its how it feels to ME.

sound wise however other people can validate, and it does indeed sound sick


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

8Fingers said:


> *My ltd plays the same as my prestige*


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Way to give a solid argument



He's right though


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 10, 2009)

vampiregenocide said:


> He's right though



I know dude, I just found the argument funny


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## ellengtrgrl (Oct 10, 2009)

aphelion said:


> There have been some pretty spot on postings here, like vampiregenocide. It's all about feel, imho. I have a mate who swears by gibsons and I have never been comfortable playing them, I don't like the feel. I happen to love the way Ibanez 7's feel (play an RG7620 from around 1999/2000), though am not as crazy about the feel of the 6's.
> 
> The thing that confounds the Ibanez issue, for this forum anyway, is that they were the first (as far as I understand) commerically available mass produced sevens, and in a lot of places, the most likely first seven experience most of us have.


 
Not quite true. It's probably more accurate to say that they were the first 7s produced in large quantities. The first commercial (as in not custom made) 7-strings I know of, are the Gretsch Model 6079 and Model 6080, George Van Epps guitars (both guitars are the same, except for having different colors - Gretsch typically does this with its model number scheme). They were introduced in 1968 by Gretsch, after it got George Van Epps (a noted 7-string jazz player) to sign an endorsement contract. They were made until at least the late 70s. The only difference between it and today's 7-stings tuningwise, is that the 7th string is tuned to A (most jazzers don't tune it to B). I wouldn't mind having one myself, but the only one I saw (several months ago) was going for way more than I could afford (IIRC, it was about $2500).


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## Lethe (Oct 10, 2009)

I've owned a K7, and I still own an RG7321 and, more importantly, an RG7EXFX2. I also have a Schecter007 which I love, so I wouldn't call myself a fanboy of any brand.

I must say Ibanez do make nice guitars, but they're only overrated in the sense that they're overpriced. For a non-tremolo guy like me, the 1527 is just ridiculous. I get a prestige neck and a nice tremolo, but fuck me, the pickups are bad. Same goes for UVs and the K7 in my opinion, but this is a matter of taste. The RG7EXFX2 is THE guitar for me, and it was dirt cheap when I ordered it from Ishibashi since the Yen is weaker than the Euro. Why don't they sell this guitar everywhere, it's easily the nicest Ibanez I've ever held in my hands. But still, this is because of the features: Baritone neck, offset dots, creme-bound neck (AND headstock), 707 pickups.

So let's talk build quality, not features. I think you can only really appreciate a guitar for what it is once you've owned it for a while, so from hands-on experience outside of a shop, I would say the K7's fretwork is better than the Schecter's, but really, that doesn't affect playability for me. The 007 Blackjack has level frets, but the ends of the frets aren't rounded as nicely - who notices that while playing.

In the end, I think Ibanez is making the same mistake Fender and Gibson have made in the past: Getting up on a high horse, dictating to the customer what they're supposed to like. Back then, out of nowhere, Ibanez came along, with affordable guitars that took a new approach (playability and rock/metal looks). So Ibanez took a lot of market share from them, because they were cheaper. Now, Ibanez is just as expensive as the rest of the big guys, not really taking any risks (the 8-string thing was sure to be successful when they finally went for it), not offering anything you can't get somewhere else for equal or less money. Well, apart from the Ibanez-y feel that possibly only Agile comes close to reproduce.

Hopefully, as Schecter and Agile rise, Ibanez will realize their mistakes, but as a company grows bigger, it becomes more bloated and less able to react to new impulses. With all the endorsements and ad money going out the door each day, Ibanez would never be able to offer a guitar that's on par with an Agile for the same price. Too many mouths to feed before they can hope to break even. 

Maybe I'm leaning out the window here, but in 10 or 20 years, we might all look at Agile an Schecter and argue over what value we really get for our money.


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## budda (Oct 10, 2009)

I've read the first 30 pages, I'm not reading more.

There is *hype* surrouding a LOT of guitars and makers. There is HYPE around Agile, ESP, Sherman, KxK, Ibanez, Mesa, ENGL, Bogner, etc. You can find bad and great examples of all those guitars, and you can make any of those amps sound amazing or like total crap.

Do I think Ibanez is overrated? Not really, nor do I think that Gibson's or PRS's are overrated. Do I think that most brands that are common on this guitar forum are over-hyped? To a degree, yes.

Also, only owning 3 guitars from 1 brand does in no way make you an expert on that brand.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

budda said:


> I've read the first 30 pages, I'm not reading more.
> 
> There is *hype* surrouding a LOT of guitars and makers. There is HYPE around Agile, ESP, Sherman, KxK, Ibanez, Mesa, ENGL, Bogner, etc. You can find bad and great examples of all those guitars, and you can make any of those amps sound amazing or like total crap.
> 
> ...



This


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## Lethe (Oct 10, 2009)

budda said:


> Do I think Ibanez is overrated? Not really, nor do I think that Gibson's or PRS's are overrated. Do I think that most brands that are common on this guitar forum are over-hyped? To a degree, yes.



I agree with most of your post. Most brand discussions come down to hype.

Isn't being overrated and being overhyped the same thing, though?


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 10, 2009)

Lethe said:


> I agree with most of your post. Most brand discussions come down to hype.
> 
> Isn't being overrated and being overhyped the same thing, though?



Hype is generally before something is accesible to the public, but I don't want to split hairs.


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## Lethe (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't mean to be rude, but most of the hype on this forum is about stuff that is very accessible to the public. What's your point?


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## MFB (Oct 10, 2009)

Lethe said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but most of the hype on this forum is about stuff that is very accessible to the public. What's your point?



He means _physically _accessible, as in mere speculation while the product is being made like months/maybe even years before it's release


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## budda (Oct 10, 2009)

Lethe said:


> I agree with most of your post. Most brand discussions come down to hype.
> 
> Isn't being overrated and being overhyped the same thing, though?



Similar, I don't know about the exact same thing - anyone feel like going to dictionary.com, I'm feeling a bit lazy *sigh*.

I would define over-rated as "not nearly as good as the cost indicates it should be", and over-hyped as "everyone says it's the best thing ever, but it's only average".


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 10, 2009)

OK, here's my perspective:

Every company is overrated by the fanboys and underrated by the haters. One of the big reasons I see being flung around in this thread is the price issue. Are Ibanez guitars cheap? Actually they are. Find me another company that makes guitars in Japan with the same pricing as Ibanez. The only two I can really think of are Caparison and ESP (real ESP not LTD) and those brands can easily price thousands over Ibanez Prestige models. As for the prices going up compared to the 80's and 90's, you have inflation to thank for that. In fact, adjusted for inflation an RG550 that sold for $650 in 1987 would sell for upwards of $1200 now. As for the most recent price bumps, you have the economy to thank. With less guitars being bought overall prices have to get a slight increase to compensate. In fact most of the price increases along MIJ Ibanez guitars was less then 15%. Even the $200 price increase of the RG2228 that everyone hates so much was only a 12.5% increase. 

Also, unless you've had an extended amount of time playing/owning a MIJ Ibanez guitar, you really have no room to talk. It's easy to play a handful of guitars at the shop who have piss poor set-ups and dead strings and get a bad feeling about Ibanez. Though, the same could be said for all brands.

As for the argument of where they are made, unless it's CS Schecters, all LTDs, and every single Agile is made in the same Korean shops that make the lower end Ibanez guitars. Saying that one brand has better quality is impossible. 

Though, what this all really comes down to is personal preference. I hate Schecter, the necks are too think, the fretwork has never impressed me, and the EMGs do nothing for me, either do the arched tops. As for ESP, they're FAR too pricey for my tastes, or means for that matter, and all the "cool" ones are Japan only. They obviously care far less about the North American market, their loss. As for LTD, same thing as Schecter for the most part, though, I do like some LTDs. As for Agile, after owning 6 different ones, I simply can't. I REALLY want to like them, and I see them as a new hope in the guitar market, but as far as quality and playability as I see it, they just aren't there YET. 

Though, back to the price argument, you don't see many people with the means to EASILY acquire high-end guitars complaining all too much, about what brand is over-hyped and what brand is overrated. It seems to be in the low-medium priced guitars that people tend to call out brands. Just something to think about. 

As for people saying that all Ibanez has going for it are the neck shapes and trems, think about what you're hands come in contact with when you play.

Like I said, just my two.


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## Anthony_Jacob (Oct 10, 2009)

The thin neck hurts my wrist. Not necessarry overrated, just not for me. I find them better suited to a style that I don't play too much.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 10, 2009)

I had a 1570 from '05 that I did a pro-level tung oiling of the neck to.. with a good setup, it smoked so many guitars that were worth $1500+. You can find 2nd hand 1570's for like $500 - $700.


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## mikernaut (Oct 10, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> OK, here's my perspective:
> 
> 
> Though, back to the price argument, you don't see many people with the means to EASILY acquire high-end guitars complaining all too much, about what brand is over-hyped and what brand is overrated. It seems to be in the low-medium priced guitars that people tend to call out brands. Just something to think about.
> ...



Good post Max. I spent 10 minutes trying to elaborate on your post but I kept deleting my typings , but the above quote I totally can agree with.

ok ,back to drinking beer!


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## troyguitar (Oct 10, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I had a 1570 from '05 that I did a pro-level tung oiling of the neck to.. with a good setup, it smoked so many guitars that were worth $1500+. You can find 2nd hand 1570's for like $500 - $700.



When I was looking at them in the summer of 2004 they were $559 brand new, regular price, not on sale.

Now they're $999. A 79% price increase in 5 years, yeah that sounds totally reasonable! 

At the same time, the RG1527 was $599. That one has had a 100% price increase. What the FUCK is up with that?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> When I was looking at them in the summer of 2004 they were $559 brand new, regular price, not on sale.
> 
> Now they're $999. A 79% price increase in 5 years, yeah that sounds totally reasonable!
> 
> At the same time, the RG1527 was $599. That one has had a 100% price increase. What the FUCK is up with that?



Guitar's don't live in a bubble, close to 30% of those price increases have to do with inflation, and when you throw in the economy as the factor, it represents even more. Granted the latest price increases have been pretty sharp, but considering for a little over a decade their was no significant price change, this is not just Ibanez deciding to double their profits. Look at the catalogs from 5 years ago. 

For the record, $1000 for a guitar is not a lot of money. Especially when it comes with quality pickups (the V-series isn't absolutely terrible), a form fitted hardshell case, and superb quality. 

If you want something cheaper, there are plenty of guitars in the Ibanez line-up with budget in mind. If you're wondering how Shecter and LTD makes guitars so cheap, just look at where they are made. They're made in the same World and Cort plants that Ibanez uses.


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## Prydogga (Oct 11, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Ibanez > All.
> 
> That's all i have to say about that.



 This thread already has 140 replies, I can't risk reading them all...


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Guitar's don't live in a bubble, close to 30% of those price increases have to do with inflation, and when you throw in the economy as the factor, it represents even more.



Where'd the other 70% go, then?


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm kind of getting over Ibanez...I'm saving for a Jackson Stars Soloist and I can guarantee it will be nicer than my Ibanez.

I don't think they are over-rated though.


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## nikt (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Where'd the other 70% go, then?



from buyers

Ibanez is a company that is earning money out of SELLING guitars. If buyer is able to hold those insane high prices that means that they are not absurd at all.

I'm a big Ibanez fan. I don't think they are over rated. they are just stupid expensive for what you get, but still those are good guitars and you can choose to buy a used one insted of brand new


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

nikt said:


> If buyer is able to hold those insane high prices that means that they are not absurd at all.



Sure it does. It just means the buyers are crazy. 


nikt said:


> I'm a big Ibanez fan. I don't think they are over rated. they are just stupid expensive for what you get, but still those are good guitars and you can choose to buy a used one insted of brand new



I'm not sure if over-rated is the word i'd use, honestly, but i'd definitely say over priced.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Where'd the other 70% go, then?



First off, 70% minus 30% is 40%, then from that take out the average of the price increases due to the economy (the last hike) which is 15%, and you're left with 25% price increase that simply can't be explained without looking at Ibanez's books. Though also keep in mind, that retailers will add to the cost increases as well. 

Ibanez is not in the industry of making guitars for the lowest bidder. If so they would move ALL production to China. 

If you don't see a 25% increase in profit (which is all assumption) over five years as somewhat tame, take a look at the Prices of Fender (and all the companies they own) as well as Gibson. Or step outside the guitar bubble and look at the price of gas. 

Though, we're (at least I am) talking about the Japanese made Ibanez guitars. If you take a look at the former Korean and the now Indonesian line, you won't find such "high" prices. Part of what makes your beloved Shecter Loomis so cheap in comparison to the MIJ Ibanez is that it's made by the lowest bidder, Cort Korea I think, though it might be one of World's subs. The pickups, trem, and tuners are all purchased wholesale, directly, thus reducing the price as well. If your guitar was made in Japan, I can guarantee it would cost FAR more then the meager $1000 it costs now. Ibanez as well puts out a Korean made, non-Basswood, neck-thru, guitar with EMGs, though it's a 6, and it too is priced a couple hundred under $1000. 

I just want to be clear that I'm not ripping on your Loomis, different strokes for different folks. The same reasons you like it over one of my UVs are the same reasons I like my UVs over anything Shecter as ever made.



Metal Ken said:


> Sure it does. It just means the buyers are crazy.



A Schecter Loomis cost $1000 and offers me nothing as a player. I dislike the trem, pickups, body wood, control layout, neck shape, inlays, neck joint, and body top-contour. 

An Ibanez RG1527 cost $1200 and offers me a lot more of what I'm looking for. I love the neck, I love the trem, I don't hate the pickups, I like the control layout, and the aesthetics as well are something I dig. Plus it comes with a case and is MIJ.

Am I really that crazy for spending an extra $200?

I will agree that most of the signature models are overpriced, though across the board 95% of sig guitars are, not just Ibanez.


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 11, 2009)

Why is there no 'facepalm/holy shit I'm out of here' smiley?


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 11, 2009)

I didn´t even mention price in the first post. I´ve always looked at them as pretty cheap. Maybe because I´ve never bought one new because they are so easy to find used.

The thing is I´m not claiming that I know everything about ibanez, I was actually pretty happy with them in the start, and I wanted to like the UV7 when I got that. Just looks so nice and simple with the greendot and stuff. And I did like it, I would probably still have it if it just was built more solid.

You guys compare with cars (lol), so here´s my comparison. I can buy a car and be very happy with it, but if the engine keeps breaking down all the time I´ll start to dislike it, you know?

As I said, I´ve only owned 3 of them, so I may have been unlucky. But I feel that giving a company the chance 3 times is enough. I don´t think I´ve hold on to an ibby for more than one year, still I´ve had far much trouble with them then I have with my PRS/ESP/Carvin and even my first guitar Fender strat, which some say is a fake fender because it´s built in mexico.

And this is why I made the thread. May have been just my experience with ibanez or it may be something to it..


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Sure it does. It just means the buyers are crazy.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 11, 2009)

I wrote a long post, realised I couldn't be arsed. Fanboys are fanboys, different people like different things, and it also depends on what guitar brand is "in" at the moment.

To the OP: next time you get an old UV, literally fix it up. You have to remember that they are 14-20 year old guitars and need a bit of care. Screw the neck down, take some 2500grit sandpaper to the back of the neck, clean it up, repot the pickups (they can be microphonic) and adjust pole pieces on pickups (helps a lot with the old blazes), then clean electrics, basically strip the whole thing, clean up, put back together, or take it to a good luthier to do up. All the issues you said you had are more likely from wear and tear and age, and can all be fixed up 

As for newer models, hit and miss. Played some azaing ones, and some not so amazing ones. Like any guitar company, you are going to get some lemons that sound rubbish, but, it takes an honest man to admit that their guitar may not be the greatest. everyone thinks that what they play is the best ever and sounds the bst ever.


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## cataclysm_child (Oct 11, 2009)

7 Dying Trees said:


> I wrote a long post, realised I couldn't be arsed. Fanboys are fanboys, different people like different things, and it also depends on what guitar brand is "in" at the moment.
> 
> To the OP: next time you get an old UV, literally fix it up. You have to remember that they are 14-20 year old guitars and need a bit of care. Screw the neck down, take some 2500grit sandpaper to the back of the neck, clean it up, repot the pickups (they can be microphonic) and adjust pole pieces on pickups (helps a lot with the old blazes), then clean electrics, basically strip the whole thing, clean up, put back together, or take it to a good luthier to do up. All the issues you said you had are more likely from wear and tear and age, and can all be fixed up
> 
> As for newer models, hit and miss. Played some azaing ones, and some not so amazing ones. Like any guitar company, you are going to get some lemons that sound rubbish, but, it takes an honest man to admit that their guitar may not be the greatest. everyone thinks that what they play is the best ever and sounds the bst ever.



I did get new frets on it, but still it made this weird sound when palm muting and the luthier I gave it to couldn´t figure out what it was.. But I still didn´t like the floyd, so I guess ibby´s just isn´t my thing..


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 11, 2009)

cataclysm_child said:


> I did get new frets on it, but still it made this weird sound when palm muting and the luthier I gave it to couldn´t figure out what it was.. But I still didn´t like the floyd, so I guess ibby´s just isn´t my thing..


that is pretty odd... shame really :/ If you ever find a uv with an edge7 on it (not the lo pro7) give it a go, the feel is different, more floyd like


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> First off, 70% minus 30% is 40%, then from that take out the average of the price increases due to the economy (the last hike) which is 15%, and you're left with 25% price increase that simply can't be explained without looking at Ibanez's books. Though also keep in mind, that retailers will add to the cost increases as well.


okay, so we have a 100% price increase on the 1527. You said that 30% is inflation. that seems to leave 70%, unless we're thinking along different terms. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Ibanez is not in the industry of making guitars for the lowest bidder. If so they would move ALL production to China.


The way they've started cutting costs, keeping finishes limited, not using any pickup aside from the cheapo pickups in anything but their signature guitars, it leads me to believe otherwise. Unless, you want to argue the V8s or whatever are good in non-basswood guitars... Then why do they keep putting them in basswood guitars?





MaxOfMetal said:


> If you don't see a 25% increase in profit (which is all assumption) over five years as somewhat tame, take a look at the Prices of Fender (and all the companies they own) as well as Gibson. Or step outside the guitar bubble and look at the price of gas.


Well, you can get a basic american strat for 1200$ at MF. When i worked at a music store 5 years ago, they were 999$. Thats a much more tame increase. We didnt sell gibsons, so i cant really compare. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Though, we're (at least I am) talking about the Japanese made Ibanez guitars. If you take a look at the former Korean and the now Indonesian line, you won't find such "high" prices. Part of what makes your beloved Shecter Loomis so cheap in comparison to the MIJ Ibanez is that it's made by the lowest bidder, Cort Korea I think, though it might be one of World's subs. The pickups, trem, and tuners are all purchased wholesale, directly, thus reducing the price as well. If your guitar was made in Japan, I can guarantee it would cost FAR more then the meager $1000 it costs now. Ibanez as well puts out a Korean made, non-Basswood, neck-thru, guitar with EMGs, though it's a 6, and it too is priced a couple hundred under $1000.



Say what you will about the loomis being made by the lowest bidder, its been constructed better than any of my 4 Universes, and my S7320, which may have even been made in the same plant. My korean made Conklin groove tools, a 300$ (Used. I think they were 599$ new) guitar had better fit and finish than both of my UV7BKs. My 2005 UV777PBK came with microphonic pickups. I had gotten it at an employee discount, but it would've been a 2000$ guitar otherwise, at the time. 




MaxOfMetal said:


> I just want to be clear that I'm not ripping on your Loomis, different strokes for different folks. The same reasons you like it over one of my UVs are the same reasons I like my UVs over anything Shecter as ever made.



Thats fine. I'm just saying, after 4 universes, i really wish i wouldn't have beaten around the bush. But hindsight is 20/20. 




MaxOfMetal said:


> A Schecter Loomis cost $1000 and offers me nothing as a player. I dislike the trem, pickups, body wood, control layout, neck shape, inlays, neck joint, and body top-contour.
> 
> An Ibanez RG1527 cost $1200 and offers me a lot more of what I'm looking for. I love the neck, I love the trem, I don't hate the pickups, I like the control layout, and the aesthetics as well are something I dig. Plus it comes with a case and is MIJ.



As far as the control layout goes, its really a lot easier to drill a hole than it is to cover one up. The rest of that, its preference (Except i dont really see how it being "Made in japan" makes it inherently better. Unless you're a japanophile. Otherwise, the end quality of the product is what matters). However, after owning an actual OFR, i cant really ever imagine going back to an edge pro or anything else, aside from a ZR. 

Even if you hate the pickups in the loomis, they have more resale value than a V7 or V8. You could sell those and easily have some extra money to throw around for new pickups, and some pickup rings if you want to go passive. Whereas, if you want to upgrade the ibby pickups, you basically have no resale on the pickups, and are spending an extra 1-200$ on top of the original price of the guitar to bring up to speed with most other companies who ship their guitars with decent stock pickups at the same price point (ESP, for example. Most of their LTDs come with Duncans, or EMGs if you're so inclined). I think that kinda eats the "value" of getting a case with it.


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## budda (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> As for the argument of where they are made, unless it's CS Schecters, all LTDs, and every single Agile is made in the same Korean shops that make the lower end Ibanez guitars. Saying that one brand has better quality is impossible.



I am calling bullshit here.

Why? because there is *quality control*. Yes, EVERY major manufacturer puts out lemons, we know. Some companies simply put out fewer (in some cases, far fewer) lemons than others. It is up to the people in QC to make sure that the fewest lemons slip out to the public, NOT the store owners or sales reps on the floor. Better quality does not just mean the action (store), fit and finish (QC) or quality of materials (QC) of the guitar you are holding - it also means finding fewer lemons. Gibson puts out incredibly kickass guitars - but not 100% and lately, not as often as people expect.

If I take 50 Agiles, 50 Schecters, 50 Ibanez's and 50 LTD's, and 45 Agiles, 48 Schecters, 47 LTD's and 38 Ibanez's are average or above, then I will probably say that from my sample test, Ibanez guitars are of lower quality than the other 3 brands - with facts to back it up. I'm fully aware that most people don't have access to those numbers, nor do they run tests in a controlled environment to scientifically state which companies consistently make higher quality instruments


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

budda said:


> I am calling bullshit here.
> 
> Why? because there is *quality control*. Yes, EVERY major manufacturer puts out lemons, we know. Some companies simply put out fewer (in some cases, far fewer) lemons than others. It is up to the people in QC to make sure that the fewest lemons slip out to the public, NOT the store owners or sales reps on the floor. Better quality does not just mean the action (store), fit and finish (QC) or quality of materials (QC) of the guitar you are holding - it also means finding fewer lemons. Gibson puts out incredibly kickass guitars - but not 100% and lately, not as often as people expect.
> 
> If I take 50 Agiles, 50 Schecters, 50 Ibanez's and 50 LTD's, and 45 Agiles, 48 Schecters, 47 LTD's and 38 Ibanez's are average or above, then I will probably say that from my sample test, Ibanez guitars are of lower quality than the other 3 brands - with facts to back it up. I'm fully aware that most people don't have access to those numbers, nor do they run tests in a controlled environment to scientifically state which companies consistently make higher quality instruments



That brings up another point i completely forgot about:
If something goes wrong with ibanez, good luck getting it fixed. You're either gonna have to return it or sell it. If you need a part, when we ordered them, it took about 3 months to get them, if not more. Ibanez never responded to any emails i sent them about guitars i had even bought new. The only contact the company ever had with the store i worked at in the time i worked there was through their parent company, Hoshino USA, who, IIRC handled all the shipping and shit of all the products. 

Schecter bent over backwards for me, both times i had to call them. Once was my fault, the other was theirs. both times, they were incredibly accomidating. First time, was my first schecter, a 007 Blackjack. I was trying to install graphite saddles, and didnt realize you cant take the saddles off Tonepros (The model on the blackjack at the time, anyway) without fucking them up. I did, however, and they fucked up. I called up schecter, and explained what happened, they got an email between me, them and the tonepros guys going on, and inside of a couple days, they sent me a new bridge in the mail, free of charge. Those bridges used to cost around 100$ street price at the time.

The other time was when i got my loomis. I got one with overly crowned frets, so the high E fell off when you'd bend the string sometimes. I called Schecter, and inside of 7 days, i shipped them my guitar, and had a brand new loomis at my front door.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> okay, so we have a 100% price increase on the 1527. You said that 30% is inflation. that seems to leave 70%, unless we're thinking along different terms.



Well when you take EVERYTHING I've said to get the other down to around 25%, it would take the 100% of the RG1527 down to 45%. Though unless you 're reading financial information I can't find, that 45% (just like the 25%) can potentially be far lower in actual profits gained.



Metal Ken said:


> The way they've started cutting costs, keeping finishes limited, not using any pickup aside from the cheapo pickups in anything but their signature guitars, it leads me to believe otherwise. Unless, you want to argue the V8s or whatever are good in non-basswood guitars... Then why do they keep putting them in basswood guitars?



The Prestige line of guitars, along with most of the standard line still come in two or three different finishes, in the case of some models there are even four or five options. Though, yes, Ibanez has done a lot of "thinning of the heard" over the last decade. Do you really think that buying GIANT amounts of pickups from Seymour Duncan, EMG, or Dimarzio would effect the price? And in case you haven't noticed, most of the Prestige line has after market pickups, or at least ones made by DiMarzio. In fact only three guitars still use the V-series pickups. As for how they sound in basswood, it's all a matter of opinion. 




Metal Ken said:


> Well, you can get a basic american strat for 1200$ at MF. When i worked at a music store 5 years ago, they were 999$. Thats a much more tame increase. We didnt sell gibsons, so i cant really compare.



It's still an increase though, though from a VERY different company. Though that's a single example. I don't remember the Fender price list from 04', so I'll just give you a win on this one. 




Metal Ken said:


> Say what you will about the loomis being made by the lowest bidder, its been constructed better than any of my 4 Universes, and my S7320, which may have even been made in the same plant. My korean made Conklin groove tools, a 300$ (Used. I think they were 599$ new) guitar had better fit and finish than both of my UV7BKs. My 2005 UV777PBK came with microphonic pickups. I had gotten it at an employee discount, but it would've been a 2000$ guitar otherwise, at the time.



That's the thing about guitars. Their are gems (no pun intended) and their are duds. Of the eight LTD, two ESPs, six Agiles, two Fenders, and even some of the two dozen Ibanez guitars I've owned none of them offered me the tone and playability of my three current Universes and my four current RG7s. Granted, that most have different pickups, but I doubt that Steve is gonna start using D-Sonics, and RG7s should always have D-Activators. If your guitar had microphonic pickups, then blame DiMarzio, they make those oh so coveted after market pickups you think Ibanez should use more. Though, if your UVs were such junk, then why did you buy them? Better yet, why did you keep them for so long? 



Metal Ken said:


> Thats fine. I'm just saying, after 4 universes, i really wish i wouldn't have beaten around the bush. But hindsight is 20/20.



And this is where we can truly agree. If you don't like something then don't buy is, and especially don't keep it. 





Metal Ken said:


> As far as the control layout goes, its really a lot easier to drill a hole than it is to cover one up. The rest of that, its preference (Except i dont really see how it being "Made in japan" makes it inherently better. Unless you're a japanophile. Otherwise, the end quality of the product is what matters). However, after owning an actual OFR, i cant really ever imagine going back to an edge pro or anything else, aside from a ZR.



Once again mostly personal preference. I was simply saying that me buying a guitar that I like better for just a smidgen more money is not me being crazy. As for the MIJ thing, for the most part every Japanese made guitar has had better out of the box fit and finish then the many Korean ones I've owned. It may mean nothing to you, but it kinda means something to me. 



Metal Ken said:


> Even if you hate the pickups in the loomis, they have more resale value than a V7 or V8. You could sell those and easily have some extra money to throw around for new pickups, and some pickup rings if you want to go passive. Whereas, if you want to upgrade the ibby pickups, you basically have no resale on the pickups, and are spending an extra 1-200$ on top of the original price of the guitar to bring up to speed with most other companies who ship their guitars with decent stock pickups at the same price point (ESP, for example. Most of their LTDs come with Duncans, or EMGs if you're so inclined). I think that kinda eats the "value" of getting a case with it.



There is a difference between value and _value_. I don't get guitars just because they're a good buy with high monetary value. I get guitars because they make me happy. As far as pickups go, I'd rather keep what I take out of the guitar, so if I ever need to sell it, or anything, I can easily return it to stock. Many guitars that I thought I would have forever, I've wound up selling or trading. It's just how I am. So that example means nothing to me. There is FAR more to a guitar than it's pickups. And even factors that have nothing to do with gear, such as fingers. 

I guess all I want to get at, is you are not a UV/Ibanez player. Which is totally fine. Playing guitar should be about what you play, not what you play on. If you think Ibanez is The Guitar Devil, feel free. Boycott them for all I care. Perhaps then the prices of used ones will get even lower. 

Oh and sorry for the long post, I just had to cover everything.


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## poopyalligator (Oct 11, 2009)

Personally i love the OLDER ibanez guitars. I have owned several guitars from many different makers in the high end spectra. I am not saying that ibanez is the best guitar maker in the world, because there are some really great craftsman out there who make wonderful outstanding instruments. However I think as far as bang for your buck goes you cant beat them. On the used market you can get a rg7620 from the 300-500 dollar range usually and you get a pretty great guitar. I have never played any jackson, dean, fender, or any other mainstream 7 string in that price range that even comes close to that value. They have an undeniable great feel to them, and they make high quality components for their stuff as well. I usually change the pickups on them when i get them, because i simply dont like those pickups too much, not because they are bad. As far as some of the newer stuff goes, that is kind of a different story. I just got one of those new xiphos guitars a while ago I was not that happy with it. It is not that it is a bad guitar, I just think the quality could be a little better on it. Although some of the newer ones are great for the money. Take a look at the ibanez rga series. The low end models are great guitars for the money, and they look,feel, and sound great. Once again everything is personal opinions, but i think it is slightly absurd to say that ibanez guitars are overrated, because in theory you could say that about every production guitar.


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## Axel (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm going to have to agree that Ibanez guitars are a little overrated. However, I'm speaking strictly from a 7 string standpoint as I don't have much experience with their 6 stringers, but the ones I've tried seemed pretty good, especially the ones with thin bodies.

My first 7 string guitar was an Ibanez. I believe it was a 7620 which I think cost me 1k when I got it. At first I was very pleased with it, but I think I was more pleased at the fact that I now had 7 strings as opposed to 6. I wasn't really amazed with the sound, construction or feel.

Eventually I started to notice that the fretboard was getting cracks and I started to have intonation problems which couldn't easily be fixed with adjustments. I also realized how muddy the pickups were after recording an EP with the guitar.
Needless to say I sold the guitar. After thinking it over for a bit I decided to invest in a Conklin after my bandmate at the time got one. It was worth every penny. Mind you I realize it's not fair to compare a custom Conklin with a production Ibanez, but I have since played other production 7 strings that didn't have the same problems that my old Ibby did.

My current guitarists first 7 string was also an Ibanez. A 7321 if I recall correctly. It also had the same problems: low quality pickups, poor fretboard, not a nice feel. He didn't have it long enough so I don't know if it would've suffered from the same intonation problems as mine did.
He settled on a Hellraiser, and minus the feedback problems from the high output pickups when playing in small venues (he doesn't have a noise gate) it has been a great guitar so far.

I have also tried out an Agile and was very impressed with it. It reminded me a little of my first serious electric: a Jackson Kelly. So it had a very familiar feel. The pickups also sounded good and they're very affordable to boot.

So me personally, if I had to get a cheap production 7 string, I would get an Agile or a Schecter over and Ibanez anyday. Of course this doesn't mean that Ibanez are bad guitars, they just haven't worked for ME. Perhaps my experience with 7 string Ibbys are isolated incidents


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## shaneroo (Oct 11, 2009)

carvin


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## AngelVivaldi (Oct 11, 2009)

I wouldnt say overrated as much as overpriced. For the price of one high-end Ibanez you can get two Agile's with very similar if not BETTER specs, (ebony fingerboard, neck thru construction, no inlays!).


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

AngelVivaldi said:


> I wouldnt say overrated as much as overpriced. For the price of one high-end Ibanez you can get two Agile's with very similar if not BETTER specs, (ebony fingerboard, neck thru construction, no inlays!).



Specs don't always make an instrument. If that was the case then why buy high-end guitars?


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Specs don't always make an instrument. If that was the case then why buy high-end guitars?





> MaxOfMetal
> Hate's Spec Whores!


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


>



Prove me wrong.

Prove that the only things that matter in an instruments are the things that it's made of. That the method and quality of craft count for nothing. It can't be done. About 90% of what makes something "better" is a matter of personal opinion.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Prestige line of guitars, along with most of the standard line still come in two or three different finishes, in the case of some models there are even four or five options. Though, yes, Ibanez has done a lot of "thinning of the heard" over the last decade. Do you really think that buying GIANT amounts of pickups from Seymour Duncan, EMG, or Dimarzio would effect the price? And in case you haven't noticed, most of the Prestige line has after market pickups, or at least ones made by DiMarzio. In fact only three guitars still use the V-series pickups. As for how they sound in basswood, it's all a matter of opinion.


Yeah, i'm a bit out of date, and havent kept up with their current line for the past few years. Though a casual glance through the RG section shows that most of the guitars come with INF pickups. Granted, they're not prestige, but most similar pricepointed LTDs come with "real" pickups. So you've got a herd of guitars with INFs now. i havent really heard any love for those. 




MaxOfMetal said:


> That's the thing about guitars. Their are gems (no pun intended) and their are duds. Of the eight LTD, two ESPs, six Agiles, two Fenders, and even some of the two dozen Ibanez guitars I've owned none of them offered me the tone and playability of my three current Universes and my four current RG7s. Granted, that most have different pickups, but I doubt that Steve is gonna start using D-Sonics, and RG7s should always have D-Activators. If your guitar had microphonic pickups, then blame DiMarzio, they make those oh so coveted after market pickups you think Ibanez should use more. Though, if your UVs were such junk, then why did you buy them? Better yet, why did you keep them for so long?


I dont know why i kept buying them for so long.I wasn't putting that much effort into "finding my tone" so to speak. Once i started getting better amps where the guitar made a difference, i started noticing all this stuff. And after playing ibanezs for most of my guitar playing life, i didnt really know what to do. Then i started experimenting with different brands. Then i kinda noticed that my Uvs didnt feel any better than my other guitars. 

As far as the pickup situation in the UV, who's fault is it that those pickups that had chunks of wax falling out of the bottom were put in there? Mine? Dimarzio's? Why didnt whoever installed them at ibanez be like "Hm, that doesnt look right?" and throw them in the "fucked up" box? 



MaxOfMetal said:


> As for the MIJ thing, for the most part every Japanese made guitar has had better out of the box fit and finish then the many Korean ones I've owned. It may mean nothing to you, but it kinda means something to me.



I don't really care where it comes from as long its well built and plays well. I dont see the point in paying a premium for that based on origin. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> There is a difference between value and _value_. I don't get guitars just because they're a good buy with high monetary value. I get guitars because they make me happy. As far as pickups go, I'd rather keep what I take out of the guitar, so if I ever need to sell it, or anything, I can easily return it to stock. Many guitars that I thought I would have forever, I've wound up selling or trading. It's just how I am. So that example means nothing to me. There is FAR more to a guitar than it's pickups. And even factors that have nothing to do with gear, such as fingers.



If monetary value is not important, than why bother keeping the original parts to return it to stock if you're gonna sell it? 




MaxOfMetal said:


> I guess all I want to get at, is you are not a UV/Ibanez player. Which is totally fine. Playing guitar should be about what you play, not what you play on. If you think Ibanez is The Guitar Devil, feel free. Boycott them for all I care. Perhaps then the prices of used ones will get even lower.
> 
> Oh and sorry for the long post, I just had to cover everything.


you dont have to worry about me driving up the prices ;p


These posts are getting way too long, btw


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Prove me wrong.
> 
> Prove that the only things that matter in an instruments are the things that it's made of. That the method and quality of craft count for nothing. It can't be done. About 90% of what makes something "better" is a matter of personal opinion.



Firstly: chill the fuck out.

Secondly: an instrument is comprised of wood and hardware. If both are of a professional standard, then you're in business.

So much for "can't be done"


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> These posts are getting way too long, btw



Then I'll try to keep them short and somewhat sweet. 

As for the pickups, the INF are on guitars from $700 and down, with a few non-INF pickups here and there. Where as LTD begins putting brand name pickups in guitars in the $600 range. It's not that huge of a gap. Having played the ESP branded pickups in the store, they aren't exactly anything to write home about, just like the INFs. Schecter puts "sub" pickups such as Duncan Designs in all the sub $500 series guitars, and it isn't till the $600 mark that they all have "real" name brand ones. 

From what I've seen some people like buying used guitars that are stock. Not to mention I take VERY good care of my instruments, so putting the old parts back on allows me to sell using the widely accepted term of "MINT". Plus, if I pay a premium for new parts, I tend to hold onto them and put them in future guitars. I have a whole box full of Grover tuners, DiMarzio pickups, and Graph Tech nuts/saddles ready to go on any guitar I may get. 

Perhaps the wax falling out of the pickup is something that occurred during shipping. Though, if it was as serious as you said, then why did you buy the guitar? 

As for the whole MIJ thing, I don't pay a higher price because it's MIJ I pay a higher price for the better instrument. At least better in my eyes and hands, oh and ears. Like I keep trying to say, you have too look at it from the perspective that everything that you might hate in a guitar, someone else might love. Thankfully there are enough different instrument makers out there that can make ALL of us happy.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> I don't really care where it comes from as long its well built and plays well.



Yeah, this.

I don't care who or what built the guitar, so long as it plays good and sounds good and to a degree looks good then I'm happy.

I don't care if my guitar is the equivalent of a Hattori Hanzo sword, above all I look for something that SOUNDS good.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Firstly: chill the fuck out.
> 
> Secondly: an instrument is comprised of wood and hardware. If both are of a professional standard, then you're in business.
> 
> So much for "can't be done"



I'm perfectly calm. I'm simply replying to your post. I haven't had to resort to explicatives, maybe you should step back, count to ten and calm down a little bit. 

True that the standards of the parts/wood matter, but who is to say that Ebony is better than a fine piece of Rosewood, or that a properly made bolt-on is inferior to a neck-thru. It's all about preference. 

Like I said, unless you find a way to make THE PERFECT GUITAR that everyone likes EVERY aspect of, it's all preference. 

 Right back at ya.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm perfectly calm. I'm simply replying to your post. I haven't had to resort to explicatives, maybe you should step back, count to ten and calm down a little bit.
> 
> True that the standards of the parts/wood matter, but who is to say that Ebony is better than a fine piece of Rosewood, or that a properly made bolt-on is inferior to a neck-thru. It's all about preference.
> 
> ...



Hey, my use of swearing was to express how much you need to chill out  You're acting like what you're saying is definitive, which couldn't be further from the truth.

You should listen to Ken here, he's making a lot of sense.

As for fretboard wood, yes you are right, I've played rosewood fretboards that are as smooth as maple fretboards. However, the majority of rosewood boards I've played have been a) inferior in feel, b) inferior to tone and c) inferior in aesthetics to that of the maple-boarded guitars I've played.

So it boils down to three things: GENERALLY how that type of fretboard wood sounds, GENERALLY how that type of fretboard wood looks and GENERALLY how that type of fretboard wood plays.

That's why there's so much hate for Basswood around here, because damn, I've heard some sick sounding Basswood guitars, but the majority I've played/heard sound crap


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Hey, my use of swearing was to express how much you need to chill out  You're acting like what you're saying is definitive, which couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> You should listen to Ken here, he's making a lot of sense.
> 
> ...




I am listening to Ken, and I think me and him are having a nice discussion where we both are learning and looking at things a little differently. 

I'm not quite sure how I'm speaking in definites, but I'm sorry if you felt offended by me doing so. I too do not like when people say that something is definitively better or worse. 

I ask only that you look at your own post where you say "I've played". Like I keep trying to get across is that everyone has different likes and dislikes and to say that something is better or worse is not the right way to think. It's better to be open minded.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Prove me wrong.
> 
> It can't be done.



This was my interpretation of you stating your opinion as fact.

As for open-minded, you were right before you are preaching to the crowd 

Generally though, there are woods/pickups/hardware that are relied on for working out to be better than others in higher frequency, hence why you rarely find someone that wants to buy a basswood guitar unless it's a high-end instrument such as an RG1527 or an MMJP7.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

Basically, Ibanez are what cool people play, and ESP, Agile, Carvin, etc are for poop heads.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 11, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Perhaps the wax falling out of the pickup is something that occurred during shipping. Though, if it was as serious as you said, then why did you buy the guitar?



Well, i bought it because:
1) I had a fat employee discount and really wanted to try a UV777PBK. (I paid 1200$ for it brand new). 
2) I ordered it sight unseen from Hoshino. I didn't realize it until i had actually gotten the guitar home. I noticed the pickups were pretty microphonic. I ended up throwing an AN7 in the neck that i bought from Chris for $20.  I didnt really think about why'd they be microphonic, but i noticed when i pulled the pickguard off, giant chunks of wax falling off.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Basically, ESP are what cool people play, and Ibanez, Agile, Carvin, etc are for poop heads.



Fixed


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

<--------hearts ESP, and is trading an Ibby for an ESP and an Ibby. Which = the victory.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Basically, Ibanez are what cool people play, and ESP, Agile, Carvin, etc are for poop heads.





*hides Carvin basses*


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Oct 11, 2009)

I like the way Ibanez guitars play, but I will admit they're ripping off their customers. Some of the high end stuff is stupidly overpriced for the specs and they insist on putting a fucking trem on every single one of them


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## ShadyDavey (Oct 11, 2009)

shaneroo said:


> carvin



Well, yes 

I think Ibanez are becoming complacent - there are companies out there selling superior products (in my opinion at least) for either a similar amount of cash or even less - the name on the headstock is becoming less of an issue and the earlier point about Ibanez becoming the new Gibson is well observed. 

Right now I can't think of any reason for me to buy Ibanez with the possible exception of some of the lower-priced 6ers which are still good value for money.



Thin_Ice_77 said:


> I like the way Ibanez guitars play, but I will admit they're ripping off their customers. Some of the high end stuff is stupidly overpriced for the specs and they insist on putting a fucking trem on every single one of them



Ah yes, another fine point.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Tom you're really not looking hard enough for non-trem Ibbys cause there are loads


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

One more thing I'm going to add to this thread: The Ibanez haters here haven't played J-Customs. Its not possible for their opinion to be so low, otherwise. Maybe some of the lower model number models aren't so fantastic, but I doubt that.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> One more thing I'm going to add to this thread: The Ibanez haters here haven't played J-Customs. Its not possible for their opinion to be so low, otherwise. Maybe some of the lower model number models aren't so fantastic, but I doubt that.



Overrated


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

You son of a bitch


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Nah I'm sure J-Customs are lush.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Tom you're really not looking hard enough for non-trem Ibbys cause there are loads



Not in the current Prestige line-up.

That's something where I will give Ibanez a lot of criticism. They REALLY need to step up things in the Fixed Bridge market.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

No there's loads of lower models though. I doubt Tom would fork out for a Prestige anyway as he thinks Ibanez are way overpriced.

I'd suggest the RGA32 as a quality entry level Ibanez guitar that is a hardtail. Can't be beaten for the money IMO.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 11, 2009)

I think this thread is way over rated.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 11, 2009)

The Dark Wolf said:


> I think this thread is way over rated.


 
Pretty much.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2009)

Relax guy!


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

^ Yes


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm very relaxed. Cool, chill, just relaxing here...












With my ban hammer.


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## budda (Oct 11, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> One more thing I'm going to add to this thread: The Ibanez haters here haven't played J-Customs. Its not possible for their opinion to be so low, otherwise. Maybe some of the lower model number models aren't so fantastic, but I doubt that.



Then do you care to throw Gibson CS, Jackson CS, and ESP CS into the mix? Maybe the PRS Private Stock? Let's be serious here.

This has aaaallll been discussed ad nauseum already.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 11, 2009)

You threaten with a ban hammer? Such barbarism! Its a good thing you have the coolest user name here.


Next to mine of course.


Go team Ibanez, wooot.



budda said:


> Then do you care to throw Gibson CS, Jackson CS, and ESP CS into the mix? Maybe the PRS Private Stock? Let's be serious here.
> 
> This has aaaallll been discussed ad nauseum already.



I'm super serial, alright?


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## 8Fingers (Oct 11, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> a good thing you have the coolest user name here.


 
Budda ???!!!
How a dude who weighted a ton could teaches self-control?


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 11, 2009)

8Fingers said:


> Budda ???!!!
> How a dude who weighted a ton could teaches self-control?



He meant me, of course, silly.


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## Arctodus (Oct 11, 2009)

Ibanez guitars overrated, yeah their new stuff is. All the components are cheezy and cheap. But I can't blame them. They are trying to keep prices down so most people can afford an actual Ibanez. 

In the end all guitars are just wood and metal. Its how its crafted and made by people which drives people to play it. The same can be said for PRS guitars. Play an old one an original one from the early 90s. It feels so much better then the new ones. Same goes for Ibanez. But then again they were not this huge company which they turned into. Its almost a different product- thats what happens when a business becomes corporate. Mass produce it for the entire world. Quantity over quality- J craft. J crafts are still amazing.


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## 8Fingers (Oct 11, 2009)

The Dark Wolf said:


> He meant me, of course, silly.


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## TomParenteau (Oct 11, 2009)

The first Ibanez I ever played was a Flying V copy in the early '80s and it was super nice.

EDIT: It was late '70s, actually. Probably a '78 or '79 model.


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## budda (Oct 11, 2009)

*Is glad he can get customs*


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## Phlegethon (Oct 11, 2009)

with all of the . . . interesting . . .things going on in this thread I'm surprized that it hasn't degenerated into quote tunnels as well as a poster coming along and invoking godin's law at some point.

it started out well though . . .lol


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 12, 2009)

Phlegethon said:


> with all of the . . . interesting . . .things going on in this thread I'm surprized that it hasn't degenerated into quote tunnels as well as a poster coming along and invoking godin's law at some point.
> 
> it started out well though . . .lol



We're civilized here k thx.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 12, 2009)

Phlegethon said:


> with all of the . . . interesting . . .things going on in this thread I'm surprized that it hasn't degenerated into quote tunnels as well as a poster coming along and invoking godin's law at some point.
> 
> it started out well though . . .lol



I don't make anything of this.


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## jymellis (Oct 12, 2009)

thanks for your opinion man! i like them! glad your here! rep givin!


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## Koshchei (Oct 12, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> First off, 70% minus 30% is 40%, then from that take out the average of the price increases due to the economy (the last hike) which is 15%, and you're left with 25% price increase that simply can't be explained without looking at Ibanez's books. Though also keep in mind, that retailers will add to the cost increases as well.
> 
> Ibanez is not in the industry of making guitars for the lowest bidder. If so they would move ALL production to China.
> 
> ...



And all of these numbers somehow prove that the Knights Templar, Rupert Murdoch, and Walmart planned 9/11?



shaneroo said:


> carvin


This.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 12, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> And all of these numbers somehow prove that the Knights Templar, Rupert Murdoch, and Walmart planned 9/11?



Yep.


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## natspotats (Oct 12, 2009)

i love my ibanez but i too think that people think too highly of the ibanez name


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## Prydogga (Oct 13, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Butchered



Fixed


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## Vstro (Oct 13, 2009)

I love my Ibby's. I've stomped on my 7321 (i know fuck me right?) and it still works perfect. Every company has factory flaws on guitars now and then, it just happens.


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## djpharoah (Oct 13, 2009)

Really? You guys need to get laid, get out or something - this is like the 24th page of this useless argument/debate/topic.

I might as well say if people want it they will buy it, over rated or not. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled crap


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## Looneygah1 (Oct 13, 2009)

djpharoah said:


> Really? You guys need to get laid, get out or something - this is like the 24th page of this useless argument/debate/topic.
> 
> I might as well say if people want it they will buy it, over rated or not.
> 
> Now back to your regularly scheduled crap


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## budda (Oct 13, 2009)

I'd love to be getting laid - it'd make more sense for me to be awake for that vs no good reason at all. and im not even studying


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## El Caco (Oct 13, 2009)

This thread is stupid.

I have 3 Ibanez guitars (it was 4), 2 Schecters, an LTD and the Mutha Fuckn Ochoteco. Ibanez isn't overrated but they have become overpriced. If you think they are overrated it is because you don't own a 2027.


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## Toshiro (Oct 13, 2009)

s7eve said:


> This thread is stupid. [snip]



Thank you.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 13, 2009)

Prydogga said:


> Fixed



Lolwut?


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## Rotatous (Oct 13, 2009)

I think they are over-rated. Aside from a few exceptions, all the Ibanez guitars I've played have been hideous.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 13, 2009)

I think they are too.


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## Rotatous (Oct 13, 2009)

Wait... Why hasn't this been moved yet???


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## cycloptopus (Oct 13, 2009)

Alright. Two Cents here...

I just picked up 3 ibanezes in the last year all for under $1000. I wouldn't buy them new @ the prices they're asking. But an RG2550 prestige for $430 off ebay, a brand new 7321 for $300, and a 7420 for $300 off ebay. I'm not gonna complain. The playability is sick. I like Ibby necks best. And what's cool to me is I can work on these guitars and not feel like I'm going to destroy the value of them. 

They're not perfect guitars. If I want that I'll get a custom.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Oct 13, 2009)

Most of your favorite metal and shred songs were written on Ibanez guitars. Most of your favorite guitar players play Ibanez as well...


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## djpharoah (Oct 13, 2009)

Ok - this has gone on long enough. This thread has served its purpose as have all of you who've posted in here.

Thanks for coming by.


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