# Live tone problem - tone



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 19, 2015)

So today when I practiced with my band, me(podxt live) and other guitarist(podhd) had a problem while running direct to the mixer - when we pushed over certain volume(right about where it's loud enough for drummer to hear) the tone got, well it got bad... Not so much the other guys tone, but mine got unbearable...

It got really fizzy and it felt like it's over saturated and it clipped too(maybe not actually clipped, but felt like it did). At low volumes it sounded like I want, but over that point it got hardly bearable.'

The tone I used is basically this one:

2015-02-17_dukbucr | Files.fm.
(this one is quad tracked though)

So where should I start to fix this?

Build tone from ground up at those high volumes?
Try to adjust the existing tone at those volumes?
Or it may be caused by the PA system itself?(small mixer(YAMAHA MG82CX) and two monitors (BEHRINGHER EUROLIVE B215D))


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 19, 2015)

Generally the fizziness at volume can be attributed to a lack of mids and too much treble, so I'd start from there, also it is best to use a low input gain into whatever mixer you're using and then boost the volume of the pa or what have you to compensate. In short: lower the volume from your pod and boost the volume from the mixer. That'd probably be a solid place to start.

I don't have a way to listen on this iPad, but I'd try that first.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 19, 2015)

OhCruelFortune said:


> Generally the fizziness at volume can be attributed to a lack of mids and too much treble, so I'd start from there, also it is best to use a low input gain into whatever mixer you're using and then boost the volume of the pa or what have you to compensate. In short: lower the volume from your pod and boost the volume from the mixer. That'd probably be a solid place to start.
> 
> I don't have a way to listen on this iPad, but I'd try that first.



I already have tone with lots of mid range and I cut everything above 5khz for live use and it sounds nice on low or intermediate volume, but you may be right about lowering the volume on pod cause I maxed out the volume. I'll keep this in mind, thanks!


----------



## Baelzebeard (Mar 20, 2015)

^ Make sure you set the Input gain correctly on the mixer or the mixer will distort.

Set the Input gain so that the pre-fader level peaks at 0 - +4dB. That will leave plenty of headroom to avoid clipping.

But as was hinted at, if you set up your patches at a low volume, they will probably sound significantly different, (usually brighter) at full band volume. My band level settings sound like I have a blanket over the speakers at "bedroom" levels.

Good luck, you'll get it how you want eventually.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 20, 2015)

Baelzebeard said:


> ^ Make sure you set the Input gain correctly on the mixer or the mixer will distort.
> 
> Set the Input gain so that the pre-fader level peaks at 0 - +4dB. That will leave plenty of headroom to avoid clipping.
> 
> ...



Thanks for advice!

I recently toned the gain and some frequencies down for my tone. And I dialed in my tone with headphones, so I can not turn them too loud or I would go deaf.  

Side question - would dialing in on headphones at high volumes, but with ear plugs in my ears under them would be cool? Cause I experienced the tonal change at different volumes even when playing on headphones, so maybe cranking those up while wearing ear protection under them may be an option? Or will it not be the same(or at least close enough) sound wise?

And as far as input gain goes, I actually never really messed with that, so this may give me some improvements already!


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 20, 2015)

I generally wouldn't use headphones for dialing in tones, if for no other reason than I would want to hear how my tone breathed in the room. Sorry, I'm not really technically savvy as far as exact volume levels or anything like that, just know that generally you want to leave plenty of headroom, so you get a pure representation of your tone just at a higher volume, rather than adding gain that it doesn't need and creating a mushy, hissy, clipping mess.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 21, 2015)

I checked my tone and it sounds awful when I turned up the volume even on my headphones. -_-
Messed with settings and EQ and it got better(sounds muffled on low volumes but now it is ok on higher ones).

BUT I've noticed some grainy(I guess it's somewhere in mid-range) sound that is there no matter what. I think it wouldn't be very noticeable with full band setup, but it still will mess with the overall sound. I know Line6 is known to have that 'hiss' in the sound often, but although I feel like I've managed to get rid of it, there's still some annoying side noise, that fvcks with the sound... It's almost like the sound I would imagine broken/overloaded cabinet would sound.

And the EQ is problem too, cause I can basically only cut the frequencies(I have only one EQ viable in chain and it has only 4 bands) with no boost or max one boosted freq. Won't cutting out a lot of frequencies, but boosting none will mess with my tone?



OhCruelFortune said:


> I generally wouldn't use headphones for dialing in tones, if for no other reason than I would want to hear how my tone breathed in the room. Sorry, I'm not really technically savvy as far as exact volume levels or anything like that, just know that generally you want to leave plenty of headroom, so you get a pure representation of your tone just at a higher volume, rather than adding gain that it doesn't need and creating a mushy, hissy, clipping mess.



I have no other option at this moment. I have ....ty speaker set, but everything on them sounds awful, so I better use the headphones.

I'll have to try to mess with volumes on mixer and pod to know if the cause is in those.



Anyhow, the conclusions I've got to right now:
a) EITHER I OVERLOADED THE MIXER WITH TOO MUCH VOLUME OUT OF POD
b) I DIDN'T HAVE TONE OPTIMIZED FOR THOSE HIGH VOLUMES
c) IT'S BOTH (and I guess it's both)

And I'm ....ing starting to want to switch my gear. :/ I thought I managed to get decent tone on it, but this is like kick in the balls, when you know you've done almost everything to make it sound right, but it still sounds .... at some point...


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 21, 2015)

I've generally never liked the tones I've gotten out of anything Line 6. I had a Spider Valve HD100 MkII and I couldn't wait to get rid of it, and everything else I've ever run through my cab sounds just dandy.

But anyways, you should definitely adjust your tone in the live setting for the best results.


----------



## Ikiharmaa (Mar 21, 2015)

OhCruelFortune said:


> But anyways, you should definitely adjust your tone in the live setting for the best results.



do this and be happy or still be unhappy and buy new gear.

Personally I can still live with my pod xt.. but then again the rest of the band doesn't have that amazing gear either atm so I don't feel like it's my tone that sucks at rehearsals ;D

the lack of proper eq really really sucks though, especially since I seem to need some pretty drastic cuts in order to get rid of all of the horrible frequencies.


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 21, 2015)

My rule of thumb is to always boost my treble up to where I like it, then cut it about 1/8 so I don't slay everyone's ears. But, I also love *bright* tones.


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 21, 2015)

Something I just thought of, if you and your buddy are both using processors, are your tones similar, or do they compliment each other's frequencies? Perhaps the two together are hurting the sound because of clashing freq's.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 21, 2015)

Ikiharmaa said:


> really sucks though, especially since I seem to need some pretty drastic cuts in order to get rid of all of the horrible frequencies.



Yeah, the lack of proper eq or at least two 4 band eq's is pretty big minus for this pod, cause I know it's possible to get good tone out of it, but you need to eq it heavily.



OhCruelFortune said:


> Something I just thought of, if you and your buddy are both using processors, are your tones similar, or do they compliment each other's frequencies? Perhaps the two together are hurting the sound because of clashing freq's.



No, that's not the problem, they actually compliment each other pretty well(at least when we play as a full band and if we ignore the oversaturation at high volumes, both tones sound pretty good together).



Anyhow - I've already tweaked the tone so it's more of what it should be for live use. I'll have a practice next week so then I'll check how it sounds now with properly selected volume.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 21, 2015)

OhCruelFortune said:


> My rule of thumb is to always boost my treble up to where I like it, then cut it about 1/8 so I don't slay everyone's ears. But, I also love *bright* tones.



And as far as the brightness goes - I have really big problems with getting tone that's not too bright, but still have great sustain. Sometimes it feels that it's either really short of something or it's an overkill... And I have some more problems with newly tweaked tones - they don't sound cool when I tap some leads, which is fvcking annoying...


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 22, 2015)

Sounds good. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 26, 2015)

So I'll have the practice tomorrow and I'm pretty shure I've found all the problems possible.

But still I have question - would the fact that I used dynamic mic on my tone may contributed to all these problems? I experimented with other mic's and the dynamic one seemed to have a lot of 'high scratch' and it felt really glassy.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Mar 27, 2015)

You're never going to achieve an optimum result until you do the tweaking at volume, through the PA. Make sure that you're not overloading anything in your signal chain, either. Some of the EQs in the HD are very sensitive to input level.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 27, 2015)

Got to rehersal today, with better PA and bigger mixer with more options.

It sounded a lot better!(mainly because adjustments to the tone itself not the different PA) Still, there was some frequencies, that I would like to get rid of, mainly in high end, without losing presence and the aggressiveness.


----------



## OhCruelFortune (Mar 27, 2015)

Trick: Boost 3khz, cut everything past that. That is the frequency of most of your string noise, attack and high end grunt. Past that, it's just hiss.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 28, 2015)

OhCruelFortune said:


> Trick: Boost 3khz, cut everything past that. That is the frequency of most of your string noise, attack and high end grunt. Past that, it's just hiss.



I already have a high cut @ approximately 5khz and I believe I boost in 1.4 khz too, altough I haven't messed with it a lot, but I'll try to boost different frequencies. It just seems that I need to cut something primarily and then boost, but it's hard to do when I have only one 4 band eq viable. That's why I'm messing with mids/highs/presence on amp it self.


----------

