# Wes Borland Playing Jackson Guitars



## Church2224 (Jul 23, 2011)

What do you all think of this? 



Being a Jackson fan I am glad that more and more artists are playing them and promoting them, they need the attention. Limp Bizkit may get a lot of heat but Wes Borland IMHO is a great guitar player/ songwriter. Not only is he playing Jackson, but he is playing Jackson Warriors


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## JamesM (Jul 23, 2011)

He isn't so much a great player as an amazing songwriter.


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## Church2224 (Jul 23, 2011)

The Armada said:


> He isn't so much a great player as an amazing songwriter.



Just edited it


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## SilenceIsACrime (Jul 23, 2011)

"I'll _try_ not to leave the band again...."

Lawl.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 23, 2011)

He always has sick guitars


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## mountainjam (Jul 23, 2011)

I wish there would have been more playing and less talking in that vid.


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 23, 2011)

For some reason, his face/body paint reminds me of an Electrode:

Electrode (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia


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## Riggy (Jul 23, 2011)

He sounded sick at Soni this year with that. Glad he's on Jackson, as nice as that Yamaha he's got was, it just didn't seem right :S lol.


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## themike (Jul 23, 2011)

Wes was one of the first "modern metal" guys I saw playing PRS after he ditched the Ibanez's. I must say that's around the time when I fell in love with them and was always jealous how perfectly balanced and comfortable they looked on his tall lanky body as he ran around haha







With that being said, I am glad he's happy with Jackson. Jackson makes a good instrument and it's cool to see him using a more extreme body shape because we all know Wes like's to push everything to the boundaries. I am however kind of curious why the Yamaha model was ditched. I personally hated it, but, unless it didn't sell there had to be more money involved in it for him than just getting a few road models like he is with Jackson.


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## engage757 (Jul 23, 2011)

Dude. Wes is an amazing guitarist and songwriter! Both! And I thought he was rolling with Mayones for awhile?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 23, 2011)

Good for him? is how I feel, I never care too much what guitars people are playing so long as they're making good music 

Looks cool on him with his current getups.


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## Church2224 (Jul 23, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Good for him? is how I feel, I never care too much what guitars people are playing so long as they're making good music
> 
> Looks cool on him with his current getups.




More or less I posted this as more of promotion for Jackson since they need the Artists and spotlight


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## engage757 (Jul 23, 2011)

Jackson is just one of many companies that doesn't get the respect or attention they deserve. It really sucks. Kind of like my fav company. Caparison is only known to a very few. An elite circle as it were.  I hope Jackson and Caparison start getting more attention. Too many fender and Gibson guys out there!


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## Church2224 (Jul 23, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Jackson is just one of many companies that doesn't get the respect or attention they deserve. It really sucks. Kind of like my fav company. Caparison is only known to a very few. An elite circle as it were.  I hope Jackson and Caparison start getting more attention. Too many fender and Gibson guys out there!



I agree Engage, they need the attention. After the Fender buyout they lost artists because Fender told the artists to start paying for guitars instead of giving them free ones. Which to me is a good thing. Jackson makes some great guitars, and even though prices have increase, for the money they are still good imho. They just have stiff competition from ESP and Ibanez, which, while on the same higher quality level as Jackson has, just have more artists in their spotlight, which is why any high/ higher profile artists Jackson gets is always a good thing.

I have never played a Caparison, but from what I hear and how the play similar to a Jackson, if i ever get the chance I will jump on a TAT and a Horus, I am just poor lol.


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## snowblind56 (Jul 23, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I agree Engage, they need the attention. After the Fender buyout they lost artists because Fender told the artists to start paying for guitars instead of giving them free ones. Which to me is a good thing. Jackson makes some great guitars, and even though prices have increase, for the money they are still good imho. They just have stiff competition from ESP and Ibanez, which, while on the same higher quality level as Jackson has, just have more artists in their spotlight, which is why any high/ higher profile artists Jackson gets is always a good thing.
> 
> I have never played a Caparison, but from what I hear and how the play similar to a Jackson, if i ever get the chance I will jump on a TAT and a Horus, I am just poor lol.



As far as I know, Jackson never really gave away guitars like ESP does. I thought their motto was something like "We don't pay people to play our guitars, they pay to play ours". Which honestly, is the way to to go.


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## Church2224 (Jul 23, 2011)

snowblind56 said:


> As far as I know, Jackson never really gave away guitars like ESP does. I thought their motto was something like "We don't pay people to play our guitars, they pay to play ours". Which honestly, is the way to to go.



True, but right after the buyout they apparently took it to the next level and treated artists just like normal customers and waited for guitars like everyone too. One of the reasons why Alexi left is because Jackson told him it would be a year for them to get him a new custom while ESP said it would be three months.

Whether all this is true or not I am not sure, as Chris Broderick got his prototype sig models rather quickly. 

Plus with the way ESP just gives out guitars, it is no wonder why so many people choose ESP/LTD. At least they still make a good guitar at all price points for the most part, unlike some other ungodly builders out there...cough dean cough...


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## Djent (Jul 23, 2011)

Just checked the Gold Cobra liner notes. Wes includes Yamaha and Mayones as a little thank-you, but says that he plays a Jackson (w/ SD pups through an Orange amp, and a special shout-out to the Floyd Rose).

Hmm...


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## engage757 (Jul 24, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I agree Engage, they need the attention. After the Fender buyout they lost artists because Fender told the artists to start paying for guitars instead of giving them free ones. Which to me is a good thing. Jackson makes some great guitars, and even though prices have increase, for the money they are still good imho. They just have stiff competition from ESP and Ibanez, which, while on the same higher quality level as Jackson has, just have more artists in their spotlight, which is why any high/ higher profile artists Jackson gets is always a good thing.
> 
> I have never played a Caparison, but from what I hear and how the play similar to a Jackson, if i ever get the chance I will jump on a TAT and a Horus, I am just poor lol.



totally agree. the Horus is incredible. most comfy neck I have ever played. The TAT is essentially a SLAT. Just better. 

Lack of artists is destroying Caparison. and it definitely is hurting Jackson too...


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## Church2224 (Jul 24, 2011)

engage757 said:


> totally agree. the Horus is incredible. most comfy neck I have ever played. The TAT is essentially a SLAT. Just better.
> 
> Lack of artists is destroying Caparison. and it definitely is hurting Jackson too...



That is because they both have the guts not to treat their artists like royalty and like ordinary people, instead of spoiling them with everything lol.

Like I said Companies like ESP, Ibanez, Jackson and Caparison all make excellent instruments. Why do you see more artists with the first two? The give them a lot more. I was very impressed with Chris Broderick going to Jackson when he left Ibanez, shows how he cares more for the guitars than the money...


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## engage757 (Jul 24, 2011)

totally agree again! Caparison's guitars are all made the same for public as for endorsers! Broderick going with Jackson was a huge plus for him. IMO.


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## djpharoah (Jul 24, 2011)




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## Sicarius (Jul 24, 2011)

Met Wes a few years back when he was touring with Black Light Burns and CombiChrist.

Probably one of the coolest musicians I've ever got to meet, wish he'd put more into Black Light Burns, though.

I haven't tried a Jackson, but good for him to get in with them. Maybe we'll see a more affordable signature (Warrior?) in the near future.


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## tuneinrecords (Jul 24, 2011)

I also had the opportunity to meet and talk to Wes at length at a show here in Asbury Park, NJ. He was very kind and happy to answer questions. At the time he was playing Washburn guitars and had a pretty crazy and cool looking signature model. He had a ton of guitars all with different tunings. On the back of each headstock the tuning was listed for each guitar. He sure loves using some whacky tunings, that's for sure. The other guitarist in the band was playing PRS guitars. 

It's always great when the musicians you meet are gracious and friendly. I have met a few that were rather lame, but Wes was a class act and I'm thankful that I was able to talk with him for as long as I did.


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## Sicarius (Jul 24, 2011)

if he was with BLB, then I think that was Nick, who was also a cool dude.


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## -42- (Jul 24, 2011)

He seems so soft-spoken and normal. He could walk on stage at a Maroon 5 gig and not look out of place. Not at all what I was expecting.

(note: this is a good thing)


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## tuneinrecords (Jul 24, 2011)

Sicarius said:


> if he was with BLB, then I think that was Nick, who was also a cool dude.



Yes it was BLB. I thought the first song they played that night sounded like a good heavy Ween song.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 24, 2011)

Wonder if he'll get a warrior 7?


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## Hollowway (Jul 24, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Jackson is just one of many companies that doesn't get the respect or attention they deserve. It really sucks. Too many fender and Gibson guys out there!



I don't know about that. Certainly they get less attention than they did in the 80s and 90s, but I think they're hugely respected. At least by people I know. In the 6 string realm everyone I know thinks of them as the pinnacle of the best guitars. To this day I have no idea how people consider a PRS a metal guitar - no double locking trem and pretty traditional body/HS shapes. They always seem more of a rock guitar, but Jacksons just scream metal and shred to me.

Anyway, I'm not a huge Wes fan (my mind has him too ingrained with Fred Durst) but I am happy to see more Jackson love.


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## Imalwayscold (Jul 24, 2011)

It makes me wonder whats going on at Yamaha, seeing how Gambale left for carvin and now Wes for jackson (then again when I saw limp in 2009 he was playing a ESP V for a few songs, so he may just be trying out different brands).


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 24, 2011)

AS stated elsewhere - you gotta go a long way to beat a Jackson and Wes is a tremendous songwriter.

Nice


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 24, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> I don't know about that. Certainly they get less attention than they did in the 80s and 90s, but I think they're hugely respected. At least by people I know. In the 6 string realm everyone I know thinks of them as the pinnacle of the best guitars. To this day I have no idea how people consider a PRS a metal guitar - no double locking trem and pretty traditional body/HS shapes. They always seem more of a rock guitar, but Jacksons just scream metal and shred to me.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not a huge Wes fan (my mind has him too ingrained with Fred Durst) but I am happy to see more Jackson love.



Best 6 I ever played was a 1989 Charvel 750 XL - I still search the bay to see if any crop up for sale and I've got some schematics lurking around in case I can ever get enough cash for a facsimile.....which I don't feel awful about as you just can't get the damn things these days 

That said, one of the worst custom shop guitars I ever played with as a Dave Mustaine V back when he was with Jackson and that was bloody awful - I do imagine that to be by far the exception rather than the rule however!


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 24, 2011)

So much facepalm on the first page...

LETS TREAT OUR ARTISTS LIKE ANY OTHER ASSHOLE MAKING IT COMPLETELY POINTLESS TO CALL THEM ONE OF "OUR ARTISTS / ENDORSERS" BUT AT THE SAME TIME EXPECT NOT TO LOSE A TON OF ARTISTS AND THEN WONDER WHY WE'RE NOT GETTING ENOUGH ARTIST SUPPORT / ATTENTION. 

Yeah bro thats how things should be run!

I'm wondering how wanting jackson to get more attention / them getting more attention helps an average joe guitarist in any way shape or form. Caparison maybe since last I heard they are on the verge of going under but jackson doesn't seem to have that problem being under fender. 

I mean I love ibanez guitars but even if they didn't have a ton of artists under their belt I wouldn't care if they did or not. If anything I want them at that point between starving and doing well so that they're forced to continue producing quality guitars (instead of the crap ibanez has been putting out the last decade or so) if they want to compete at all.

No hate against jackson specifically (I'm not a fan but I've played some jacksons that I thought were the best playing instruments in the store, not saying much though) I'm just trying to get the whole mentality of the first page.


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## Church2224 (Jul 24, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> So much facepalm on the first page...
> 
> LETS TREAT OUR ARTISTS LIKE ANY OTHER ASSHOLE MAKING IT COMPLETELY POINTLESS TO CALL THEM ONE OF "OUR ARTISTS / ENDORSERS" BUT AT THE SAME TIME EXPECT NOT TO LOSE A TON OF ARTISTS AND THEN WONDER WHY WE'RE NOT GETTING ENOUGH ARTIST SUPPORT / ATTENTION.
> 
> ...



Not as many people have played Jackson since the buyout, is one problem. 

What makes a guitar company bigger is its artists. Looks how many people (Mainly kids) play ESP, Ibanez, Gibson, Dean, Fender ect. Now Looks at what most kids want to play. When I first started playing I bought into the idea that ESP made the best metal guitars out there because of how many famous bands played them. Granted they are great guitars, but it is the mentality of it all. 

Sure Jackson gets its respect, but no one plays them because no artists do. Look at how many kids like Alexi Laiho. Alexi Played Jackson until the buyout in 2002. He left because Jackson said he would have to wait for a custom guitar for a year, while ESP said three months. 

People also have the common misconception that Fender has anything to do with Jackson at all. All Fender ever did was give the emloyees a raise and set up a section at the Corona Works for the Jackson and Charvel employees to do whatever they wanted to. The only reason why Jackson decided to go on board with Fender was because Fender has the largest dealer, distribution and repair/ maintenance shop network in the world, so Jackson could get more attention. 

Jackson is not spoiling their artists like a rich kid is spoiled by his parents. That is the point and the principal of the thing and why I got respect for them. Logic would dictate that if you would want to make more money then sign onto another guitar brand or get a non exclusive deal and be endorsed by two companies. But artists like Wes Borland and Chris Broderick care more about the guitars than the money. If Chris wanted to make more money then he could have switched to ESP or stuck with Ibanez.


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## Church2224 (Jul 24, 2011)

ShadyDavey said:


> Best 6 I ever played was a 1989 Charvel 750 XL - I still search the bay to see if any crop up for sale and I've got some schematics lurking around in case I can ever get enough cash for a facsimile.....which I don't feel awful about as you just can't get the damn things these days
> 
> That said, one of the worst custom shop guitars I ever played with as a Dave Mustaine V back when he was with Jackson and that was bloody awful - I do imagine that to be by far the exception rather than the rule however!



Wow a Pre-Fender Jackson that was bad? Stop the presses!!!

Jackson has its mistakes, but then again what company, big or small, does not? I think this forum pretty much sums it up that every company makes it share of lemons, but this is by far the exception rather than the rule.

I have played my share of Jackson USA guitars and have to say, I will be sticking with them for a while


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 24, 2011)

Except the WHOLE POINT of endorsers is basically advertising for the company so kids who don't know any better go YEAH! MY FAVORITE GUITARIST PLAYS X BRAND! I WANT TO PLAY IT TOO!

Which is exactly what your experiencing. They "pay" the guitarist with nice guitars so that the company... which is a business... gets free advertising... which companies need... to promote business... to make money... because that's what business's do...


and again I don't get how more people playing jackson benefits you.


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## Church2224 (Jul 24, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Except the WHOLE POINT of endorsers is basically advertising for the company so kids who don't know any better go YEAH! MY FAVORITE GUITARIST PLAYS X BRAND! I WANT TO PLAY IT TOO!
> 
> Which is exactly what your experiencing. They "pay" the guitarist with nice guitars so that the company... which is a business... gets free advertising... which companies need... to promote business... to make money... because that's what business's do...
> 
> ...



Does not benefit me, it benefits Jackson, which is a company a lot of people want to see do better, 

Well in the long run it does benefit everyone. More artists=more atention to Jackson= in the long run more profit=Jackson taking mores risks= Jackson having more models to choose from.

And yeah, the point of artists is to promote a product and company, but it is not to the point where you are supposed to overindulge you artists and spoil them.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 24, 2011)

engage757 said:


> totally agree. the Horus is incredible. most comfy neck I have ever played. The TAT is essentially a SLAT. Just better.
> 
> Lack of artists is destroying Caparison. and it definitely is hurting Jackson too...



What's destroying Caparison is their out-of-home market pricing. I remember when you could pick up a new Dellinger for about a third less, and that was only a few years ago. The prices have skyrocketed without any upgrade to quality or features. 

It's so bad that dealers are buying them overseas from other dealers just so they can make a profit. How are dealers supposed to carry guitars like that?

I think the bMusic guys summed it up best. 



Church2224 said:


> That is because they both have the guts not to treat their artists like royalty and like ordinary people, instead of spoiling them with everything lol.
> 
> Like I said Companies like ESP, Ibanez, Jackson and Caparison all make excellent instruments. Why do you see more artists with the first two? The give them a lot more. I was very impressed with Chris Broderick going to Jackson when he left Ibanez, shows how *he cares more for the guitars than the money*...



Money was one of the key motivators of the switch. Trust me. 

FMIC's pockets are deeper than Ibby's ever will be. 



Hollowway said:


> I don't know about that. Certainly they get less attention than they did in the 80s and 90s, but I think they're hugely respected. At least by people I know. In the 6 string realm everyone I know thinks of them as the pinnacle of the best guitars. To this day I have no idea how people consider a PRS a metal guitar - no double locking trem and pretty traditional body/HS shapes. They always seem more of a rock guitar, but Jacksons just scream metal and shred to me.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not a huge Wes fan (my mind has him too ingrained with Fred Durst) but I am happy to see more Jackson love.



Jackson is still riding on the past, not in a bad way. Guys who started playing in the 80's and 90's have always known and loved Jacksons, which is why most hardcore Jackson players, the type who drop $3k+ on a CS are older. 

They're just having a tough time being relevant in such a different landscape. 

Back in the day, if you wanted a high quality, neck-through, super strat you got a Jackson. Now, the market is flooded with high quality guitars that are cheaper. A 20-something kid these days doesn't look at Jackson and see the old days, they look at Jackson, ESP, Ibanez, etc and thing "look at my options". 

That being said, Jackson is here to stay. They make great guitars and people know it. 



Imalwayscold said:


> It makes me wonder whats going on at Yamaha, seeing how Gambale left for carvin and now Wes for jackson (then again when I saw limp in 2009 he was playing a ESP V for a few songs, so he may just be trying out different brands).



Yamaha has pretty much dropped out of the musical instrument game. Their production of guitars at their Taiwan facility has nearly stopped, and their workforce has been gutted. 

It's a shame, they made some great guitars and basses.


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## BigPhi84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, lets look at the flip side. Most bands are struggling to break even, let alone succeed. I can only think of a handful of metal bands that are actually making enough money to be "financially free". Lets say your in this band, "Among the Shit Heads" (I think it's funny how many band's names are prepositional phrases these days.) You work at a Best Buy on the side so that you can actually pay the bills. Now, your band is actually starting to get successful but the band can't progress to the next step b/c everyone in the band has to work a part time job and can't afford to take a month-long vacation to tour in Europe. Money is hard to come by these days. 

Through internet forum chatter, 'Guitar Company A' hears your music and offers you an Endorsement... one custom guitar every three years. 'Guitar Company B' finds out about this and counteroffers... one custom guitar, and three production guitars a year PLUS any time you play a fly-out gig, the company will ship a guitar out for you to play... plus, the company will make you a Signature model, and you will get one hundred dollars for every Sig-model guitar that is sold. Which company would you choose?

I'm willing to bet that most people would go with Company B, even if they personally like Company A's guitars more. Some might say that this is "selling out", but in the market we live in, you have to find ways to make it.

What are endorsements really? Even with Company B, I think you're still getting the shaft. Any guitar company you go with uses your name to sell their products to your fans. Monetarily, the Guitar Company is making a lot more money off of your name than you are getting from them. 

I'm not gonna lie and say that endorsements are pointless. As a kid, I loved Metallica and wanted a KH-2 model. If I had the money, I would have bought one. That's how big of a fan I was.

I think it's funny how you keep bringing up Chris Broderick and his switch to Jackson b/c "they build the best guitars ever". LOL. I'm gonna show my bias and say that I don't like most Jackson Guitars (except the Kelly model since I'm a Marty Friedman fanboy) b/c the neck feels funny to me compared to my Ibanez guitars. Also, their styling is really out-dated. I mean, I like Ibanez, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna rock a leopard skin 540PII!!!  That being said, I will no doubt agree that they are well-made guitars. 

The idea that he switched from Ibanez to Jackson b/c they're better guitars is laughable. The only reason he switched is because they would give him a signature model with the exact specs that he wanted. My God, he's even making them build a Lo-Pro7 styled trem from scratch for the 7-string model!!! "If he just wanted money, he would have stuck with Ibanez b/c they pay their endorsers more than Jackson". Really? You don't think that Chris is going to get a cut for every Signature Model that is sold? That in itself will be more money than any regular endorsement model will offer.

What's funny is that Chris is now in a band where money is not a problem which makes me think that he moved to Jackson b/c he really wanted a Signature Model, and maybe not just b/c of the money that it entails. What I do believe in all my heart is that if Chris had never joined Megadeth, he would have never left Ibanez, and he would have never joined Jackson (they would not have endorsed him since he wasn't ever a member in a "big" band.) Not downing the guy. I really like Chris and his playing style (except when he tries to do the "Tornado of Souls" solo. ) I'm glad that he did join Jackson though. It puts more 7-String models in the market and maybe it will kick-start something in this Post-Fender Jackson.


On a side note, I've always been amazed how people like Dave Weiner and Bulb have been able to negotiate non-exclusity contracts with Guitar Companies.


EDIT: Damn, ninja'd by MaxOfMetal.


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## Church2224 (Jul 24, 2011)

BigPhi84 said:


> Well, lets look at the flip side. Most bands are struggling to break even, let alone succeed. I can only think of a handful of metal bands that are actually making enough money to be "financially free". Lets say your in this band, "Among the Shit Heads" (I think it's funny how many band's names are prepositional phrases these days.) You work at a Best Buy on the side so that you can actually pay the bills. Now, your band is actually starting to get successful but the band can't progress to the next step b/c everyone in the band has to work a part time job and can't afford to take a month-long vacation to tour in Europe. Money is hard to come by these days.
> 
> Through internet forum chatter, 'Guitar Company A' hears your music and offers you an Endorsement... one custom guitar every three years. 'Guitar Company B' finds out about this and counteroffers... one custom guitar, and three production guitars a year PLUS any time you play a fly-out gig, the company will ship a guitar out for you to play... plus, the company will make you a Signature model, and you will get one hundred dollars for every Sig-model guitar that is sold. Which company would you choose?
> 
> ...


Well said. 

I am not saying that Jackson makes the best guitars ever, I love Ibanez and ESP guitars, I was just stating that Chris just cared about getting a good guitar. He had left Ibanez already, I believe that is true do not quote me on that.


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## Sicarius (Jul 24, 2011)

Didn't Chris leave Ibanez because they were trying to market a guitar as his "signature" with out his consent?

There's a lot more to the story than, "Oh they'll make me a sig, and I'll get money from it." There was a lot of bad mojo towards the end of his stint with Ibanez. 


It's a shame that Yamaha is stopping production on their guitars, I loved their signature they did for Wes.

Wes has had Non-exclusive guitar deals for years. He's played his Yamaha, some Mayones, and other guitars through their Euro tour. I wouldn't be surprised if he still used his Yamaha or a Mayones on stage every so often.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 24, 2011)

Sicarius said:


> Didn't Chris leave Ibanez because they were trying to market a guitar as his "signature" with out his consent?
> 
> There's a lot more to the story than, "Oh they'll make me a sig, and I'll get money from it." There was a lot of bad mojo towards the end of his stint with Ibanez.
> 
> ...



Ikkebe, one of Ibanez's biggest dealers in Japan mentioned Chris in the spec listing of the RGA427. It didn't say anything about it being his signature guitar, and simply mentioned Chris as being an artist who at the time used 7-string RGA guitars. It's like advertising a Strat and mentioning Eric Clapton. If anything it was helping to get Chris' name out there. He didn't have a problem with them putting him on the cover of the 2010 catalog, nor did he have any issues with being in catalogs in the past.

He later said that it was in appropriate for them to mention he played similar guitars, and then tried to take credit for the RGA series of guitar, namely the cutouts on them, which is kinda BS as their were LACS and Protos with cutouts which pre-date Chris being in Megadeth, thus it predates him using RGAs. Until he started really touring with Megadeth he was still using RG7620s and mainly his RG1527, such as in his BCPT video. 

Honestly, it seems he just really wanted an excuse to leave Ibanez, and it obviously was something he was willing to really burn down bridges for. Ibanez had been with him since his Jag Panzer days, when really no one but a couple of guitar nerds knew who he was, it's really a shame that he ditched them so abruptly. 

I'd love to get into the nitty gritty, especially given the fact Ibanez was ready to do just as much if not more than Jackson was going to do regarding sigs, except not more cash. Though, I've said too much.


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## That_One_Person (Jul 24, 2011)

The RGA427Z(?) is pretty close to one of his more coveted Ibanezes in appearance. I think he got mad because they started to implement some custom cutaway he previously had on new production guitars without giving him credit.

EDIT: Max just ninjas everything. Dude knows just about everything when it comes to Ibanez.


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## vanhendrix (Jul 24, 2011)

I think it would be smart of jackson to try a little harder to have people on their roster, but not just metal players. Mustaine still sells more guitars for them than half of their lineup because when he was making his best albums, he was playing those guitars. There's a line he says in that movie they shot while making Youthanasia, he says "notice how everyone changes their gear but me?". That just hammers home the point of a good endorser, and they should have done everything they possibly could have to keep him. Hell, the KV2s still come with his ass-backwards fubar control scheme.

I'll admit, Dave was the reason I bought my first jackson, but he sure wasn't the reason I bought my 5th. Now my favourite one is a SL2H with an atypical strat-like neck, a PRS modern eagle in the bridge, a floydupgrades brass block on the floyd, and a coil tap. Just because it's a neck-thru superstrat doesn't mean that it only works for metal.

Edit: Oh yeah, Wes Borland. Good for him, those are cool guitars. Never seen anyone that a warrior looked good on until now.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 24, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> I think it would be smart of jackson to try a little harder to have people on their roster, but not just metal players. Mustaine still sells more guitars for them than half of their lineup because when he was making his best albums, he was playing those guitars. There's a line he says in that movie they shot while making Youthanasia, he says "notice how everyone changes their gear but me?". That just hammers home the point of a good endorser, and they should have done everything they possibly could have to keep him. Hell, the KV2s still come with his ass-backwards fubar control scheme.
> 
> I'll admit, Dave was the reason I bought my first jackson, but he sure wasn't the reason I bought my 5th. Now my favourite one is a SL2H with an atypical strat-like neck, a PRS modern eagle in the bridge, a floydupgrades brass block on the floyd, and a coil tap. Just because it's a neck-thru superstrat doesn't mean that it only works for metal.
> 
> Edit: Oh yeah, Wes Borland. Good for him, those are cool guitars. Never seen anyone that a warrior looked good on until now.



I take it you don't know why MegaDave isn't using Jackson anymore?

Back before the FMIC buyout Jackson wasn't doing all too good. The failing of the American guitar market and just simply not being managed too well put Jackson in a pretty poor spot. 

MegaDave was pretty flush at this time, and since he'd been their number one user for awhile he was positioning himself to actually buy and own Jackson Guitars. 

Though, business is business. FMIC (Fender Musical Instrument Corporation) stepped in with a significantly better offer, not just in the form of cash but in the form of overall market security. The guys at Jackson abruptly stopped talking to MegaDave and took Fender's generous offer, and the rest is history.

Needless to say, Dave felt pretty dicked around and thus ended his long time relationship with Jackson. He went with ESP, as they were the few companies willing to make a carbon copy of what Jackson was making him at the time (and ESP loves dishing out endorsements), though they treated him "just like every other artist", and he jumped that boat. Now he's with Dean and they seem pretty set on kissing his ass indefinitely, so he'll probably stay with them for awhile. 

Given his current status as the biggest living endorsee on the Dean roster I don't see any company snagging him, especially one he feels wronged by. Though, you never know, FMIC has the cash to pretty much make anything happen.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 24, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> Wonder if he'll get a warrior 7?


 
I doubt it as he doesn't really like 7 strings.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 24, 2011)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Except the WHOLE POINT of endorsers is basically advertising for the company so kids who don't know any better go YEAH! MY FAVORITE GUITARIST PLAYS X BRAND! I WANT TO PLAY IT TOO!
> 
> Which is exactly what your experiencing. They "pay" the guitarist with nice guitars so that the company... which is a business... gets free advertising... which companies need... to promote business... to make money... because that's what business's do...
> 
> ...



What are you so upset ab man? Calm down.


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## vanhendrix (Jul 24, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I take it you don't know why MegaDave isn't using Jackson anymore?
> 
> Back before the FMIC buyout Jackson wasn't doing all too good. The failing of the American guitar market and just simply not being managed too well put Jackson in a pretty poor spot.
> 
> ...



I've followed that whole saga pretty closely, and if you ask the right people at the megadeth boards, you'll also find word of a press release that went live on the main megadeth site before it was supposed to. The day before it was announced that dave signed with dean, there was a huge official post on the main site saying that he was back with jackson and all of his old models would be resurrected, including the y2kv. I read it with my own two eyes. You have to communicate through PMs though because that kind of talk gets absolutely squashed on that board.

Now, we all understand that Dave endorses whoever will pay him the most, but money aside, do you really think he'd be playing that dean abortion?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 24, 2011)

vanhendrix said:


> I've followed that whole saga pretty closely, and if you ask the right people at the megadeth boards, you'll also find word of a press release that went live on the main megadeth site before it was supposed to. The day before it was announced that dave signed with dean, there was a huge official post on the main site saying that he was back with jackson and all of his old models would be resurrected, including the y2kv. I read it with my own two eyes. You have to communicate through PMs though because that kind of talk gets absolutely squashed on that board.
> 
> Now, we all understand that Dave endorses whoever will pay him the most, but money aside, do you really think he'd be playing that dean abortion?



Why did you call the guitars Dean makes for him now "abortions"? They're USA made, Custom Shop guitars, for the the most part, I am aware that there is a cheaper import line. 

I know it's trendy to hate on Dean, but as someone who has played and worked on a lot of their USA stuff, I can honestly say it's just as good as Jackson USA/CS stuff. If anything a bit cheaper at times from a buyer's perspective. I know Jackson is becoming the underdog (funny since they're owned/bankrolled by easily the biggest American guitar conglomerate) of these forums, but get real.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 24, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> What are you so upset ab man? Calm down.



Y u mad though?

Not upset, I'm just trying to understand the mentality. When I find something completely nonsensical like this *oh artists are spoiled babies and we give them whatever we want coochey coochey coo* mentality, I want to try and understand the logic behind it... which I'm just not seeing.

Is more of a *I like to take things apart and put them back together just to see how it works* kinda thing. 

Yeah its nice when artists play things because that is what they would choose to play, and also get fancy guitars while also promoting the company they're playing. But there's absolutely no sense in saying that they shouldn't get something for being endorsed and they SHOULD be treated like everyone else.

If that was the case there's literally no purpose in getting endorsed and they can just not be endorsed and play whatever they want for funsies. The whole point is the mentality in this thread defeats the purpose of being endorsed... and people approve... which I'm desperately trying to understand.


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## vanhendrix (Jul 24, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why did you call the guitars Dean makes for him now "abortions"? They're USA made, Custom Shop guitars, for the the most part, I am aware that there is a cheaper import line.
> 
> I know it's trendy to hate on Dean, but as someone who has played and worked on a lot of their USA stuff, I can honestly say it's just as good as Jackson USA/CS stuff. If anything a bit cheaper at times from a buyer's perspective. I know Jackson is becoming the underdog (funny since they're owned/bankrolled by easily the biggest American guitar conglomerate) of these forums, but get real.



Alright, maybe not the proper choice of words there. I would say the design is fairly unsightly, and the graphic finishes on almost every model are even worse. I'm not a fan of the way dean conducts business, or the image that they've made for themselves. The endorsers are associated with that image, no matter the quality of the instrument they're playing. I bet the guitars in dave's hands are fantastic instruments, but they're tied to that brand and image no matter what.

I give up.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.

And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band. 

Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.


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## Goatchrist (Jul 25, 2011)

Not a big fan of Limp Bizkit, but I really like Wes!
He has amazing stage presence and I really dig the body paint, very cool dude!
The Jacksons fit very good to the whole acting on stage!


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## Rook (Jul 25, 2011)

@Nateman I'm not a Wes Borland fanboy or Limp Bizkit for that matter, but take a step back. This band has sold millions of records over the last decade, it's pretty much nu-metal 101. You may not like nu-metal, but clearly plenty of people are and it's not exactly trendy, there's obviously some substance to LB that people enjoy (myself included on occaision) and Wes Borland is instrumental to that (no pun intended). I put Deftones in a similar boat, tonnes of people hate on Deftones but it's just simple, heavy Nu-Metal.

I dunno, nu-metal doesn't seem worth hating, if you don't like it then cool, if you do 

Back to the topic at hand, I agree that it's nice to see more high profile artists using Jackson. I don't care how much he's getting paid or why he made the switch, but Jackson puts out some great instruments and and endorser like this is kinda testament to that as he isn't exactly poor, could play what he wants, and wouldn't play a piece of crap. I also agree Wes is a great song writer, simple but good fun, plenty of variation but an underlying style


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## Daemoniac (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.
> 
> And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band.
> 
> Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.



Nu-metal isn't exactly dead man, nor has it been since it started... It just isn't "in the spotlight" like it used to be.

Wes' playing is a nice and semi-catchy mix of industrial/weird fx noises, semi jazz influenced riffs and huge, huge hip-hop influenced grooves. Limp Bizkit is basically the same, but as a band with Fred doing his thing over the top of it (which you either love or hate). Yes, he acts like a tool, but that's kind of the point...

As for the rest of your flame-bait post, just don't listen. If you find it that offensive (which you clearly do, as you have made abundantly clear) then just ignore it. As for me, I will go back to listening to my nu-metal, chuck on some Limp Bizkit, and love every second of Wes' playing.


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## Gryphon (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.
> 
> And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band.
> 
> Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.



I think the point everyone has made is that he's not a great guitarist but he's definitely a talented musician.


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## signalgrey (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.
> 
> And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band.
> 
> Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.



im not going to call you a elitest, because you aren't elite at anything. You are trolling and trolling hard. You are bashing, and you are being condescending to those who may enjoy his work/style. You arent inviting discussion, you are asking someone to justify why they like something you dont like and WONT like regardless of discussion. Your POV is "I dont like it therefore it is not a good thing for others to like". 

Theres a line between discussing a topic that you may not agree with and just being a plonker about it.Try again.

edit: you used the word "unacceptable" in regards to his playing. This undermines any attempt you had at trying make yourself a worthwhile addition to this thread.


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## BrainArt (Jul 25, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I put Deftones in a similar boat, tonnes of people hate on Deftones but it's just simple, heavy Nu-Metal.



I'm just gonna say this: Deftones =/= Nu-metal. But, I'm biased. 



Fun111 said:


> Back to the topic at hand, I agree that it's nice to see more high profile artists using Jackson. I don't care how much he's getting paid or why he made the switch, but Jackson puts out some great instruments and and endorser like this is kinda testament to that as he isn't exactly poor, could play what he wants, and wouldn't play a piece of crap. I also agree Wes is a great song writer, simple but good fun, plenty of variation but an underlying style



I do agree with this, though. 



Daemoniac said:


> Nu-metal isn't exactly dead man, nor has it been since it started... It just isn't "in the spotlight" like it used to be.
> 
> Wes' playing is a nice and semi-catchy mix of industrial/weird fx noises, semi jazz influenced riffs and huge, huge hip-hop influenced grooves. Limp Bizkit is basically the same, but as a band with Fred doing his thing over the top of it (which you either love or hate). Yes, he acts like a tool, but that's kind of the point...
> 
> As for the rest of your flame-bait post, just don't listen. If you find it that offensive (which you clearly do, as you have made abundantly clear) then just ignore it. As for me, I will go back to listening to my nu-metal, chuck on some Limp Bizkit, and love every second of Wes' playing.



I agree with this, too. Except for the Limp Bizkit part, I don't particularly care for them, because of Durst. 



signalgrey said:


> im not going to call you a elitest, because you aren't elite at anything. You are trolling and trolling hard. You are bashing, and you are being condescending to those who may enjoy his work/style. You arent inviting discussion, you are asking someone to justify why they like something you dont like and WONT like regardless of discussion. Your POV is "I dont like it therefore it is not a good thing for others to like".
> 
> Theres a line between discussing a topic that you may not agree with and just being a plonker about it.Try again.
> 
> edit: you used the word "unacceptable" in regards to his playing. This undermines any attempt you had at trying make yourself a worthwhile addition to this thread.



This.


On-topic: It's good to see Wes trying something new, out. He's used almost as many guitars and companies as Adam of Angels or Teqnick!


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## eaeolian (Jul 25, 2011)

snowblind56 said:


> As far as I know, Jackson never really gave away guitars like ESP does. I thought their motto was something like "We don't pay people to play our guitars, they pay to play ours". Which honestly, is the way to to go.



Well, there were a few that got them for free (it shouldn't be hard to figure out who ) pre-Fender, and I believe there's still a few now, but their endorsement program was originally modeled on Mesa's, IIRC.


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## technomancer (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.
> 
> And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band.
> 
> Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.



You're new here so you get a warning, we don't put up with genre trolling. Don't like something, fine, feel free to say so. However being obnoxious and questioning the taste / judgement of people that don't agree with you will not be tolerated and will get you banned.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

signalgrey said:


> im not going to call you a elitest, because you aren't elite at anything. You are trolling and trolling hard. You are bashing, and you are being condescending to those who may enjoy his work/style. You arent inviting discussion, you are asking someone to justify why they like something you dont like and WONT like regardless of discussion. Your POV is "I dont like it therefore it is not a good thing for others to like".
> 
> Theres a line between discussing a topic that you may not agree with and just being a plonker about it.Try again.
> 
> edit: you used the word "unacceptable" in regards to his playing. This undermines any attempt you had at trying make yourself a worthwhile addition to this thread.




How am I trolling? I honestly want to know. To me, his playing, as with 99% of nu-metal is "unacceptable" for being considered "good." And honestly, how do you know I won't change my mind? I'll be the first to admit I haven't gone deep into Limp Bizkit, maybe there's something I missed in there, I don't know. And you have my point of view ALL wrong. Case in point: I absolutely abhor the band August Burns Red, but I can understand why other people enjoy them, and I don't condemn them. Another CiP: With the entirety of my being I cannot stand hardcore punk, but I don't condemn it. I can see why people would enjoy it. I'm not saying it's bad for someone to like, I'm saying my brian literally cannot process why anyone would call it "good." I listen to stuff like Venom, which isn't "good" musically in any way (just ask Henry Rollins), but I still enjoy it. I'm not saying you can't enjoy Limp Bizkit or Wes Borland, I'm saying it does not compute to me, based on the given examples, why you would call him "good." 

Also, that fail attempt at an insult at the beginning was hilarious. You know literally nothing about me, yet you're going to say I'm not elite at anything? My point in saying that was, 9/10 times when you say you don't like a certain sub-genre of metal that isn't extreme death or black metal, someone's going to come in and say you're an elitist.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

technomancer said:


> You're new here so you get a warning, we don't put up with genre trolling. Don't like something, fine, feel free to say so. However being obnoxious and questioning the taste / judgement of people that don't agree with you will not be tolerated and will get you banned.



Like I said in the post I just made, I wasn't intending to troll. Would I really get banned for asking a SERIOUS question? That seems a little ridiculous. Like I said in the post, I'm not out to insult anybody. If someone can't understand the difference between having their taste called into question and having their existence as a person called into question, then I just feel bad for them. But I seriously wasn't trolling, and I don't appreciate a few people dictating to me what I was or wasn't doing.


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## eaeolian (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> Like I said in the post I just made, I wasn't intending to troll. Would I really get banned for asking a SERIOUS question? That seems a little ridiculous. Like I said in the post, I'm not out to insult anybody. If someone can't understand the difference between having their taste called into question and having their existence as a person called into question, then I just feel bad for them. But I seriously wasn't trolling, and I don't appreciate a few people dictating to me what I was or wasn't doing.



Don't burn all your newbie breaks in one thread. That wasn't phrased like a serious question, it was phrased like you were trolling, disclaimer or not. (For the record, I don't get the hype, either, but the way phrased it was guaranteed to start flames.)

You've now had two mods warn you. I suggest you pay attention, since that's all the slack you're going to get.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> Don't burn all your newbie breaks in one thread. That wasn't phrased like a serious question, it was phrased like you were trolling, disclaimer or not.
> 
> You've now had two mods warn you. I suggest you pay attention, since that's all the slack you're going to get.



Pay attention to what? I'm honestly confused as to how this has gotten to this point. I asked a question, it was perceived as trolling, and someone responded to me discourteously. I replied, with civility, saying that I wasn't trolling at all, and that I didn't appreciate it when people dictated my intentions. I'm sorry that you felt I was trolling, but I really wasn't. What exactly are you warning me from? Responding to you? You can clearly tell I haven't been trolling in this thread. My first post was perceived as trolling, and then I cleared that up in a post, and then I got a second warning? How exactly does that work?  If you're still under the perception that I'm trolling, then again, I thoroughly apologize, and will again insist that, no, I am not trolling. I could find a lot better, more reactive places to troll than a guitar forum (I could go to 4chan for that, or troll Limp Bizkit videos on youtube). So, not meaning to insult you any further (though I'm completely puzzled as to how I've managed to do so a second time, when my intent was to explain myself), why, exactly, are you giving me a second warning? 

Personally, I think the problem here is that people equate a harsh critique to trolling or "hating." I can completely assure you that a real troll would have come onto the forum and said something like: "Oh man, Limp Bizkit is so fucking horrible. You're all complete retards for liking this bullshit. This is the worst thing I've ever heard," which is not what I said, at all. 

To reiterate, I really don't appreciate people dictating to me what my own intentions are. 

Or maybe the problem here is that you're trying to tell someone, with a mental condition that prevents him from thinking/feeling like most people, that he's a troll because of the way he thought to phrase a question, without understanding the way he thinks? Have you ever heard of Asperger's, sir? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up before you make any more judgements about me. I have Asperger's, and the way I phrased my first question, is exactly how I would have thought to phrase it, seriously. I don't feel or react to any emotional stimuli like most people. I'm completely numb to understanding getting hurt over something petty like whether or not a guitarist you enjoy is "good" or not. I have a literal brain, sir, and I work on literal terms. I don't pander to emotions, I am very blunt. I cannot help that. If you're going to ban me because of a mental handicap, go ahead and ban me. I've repeatedly stated that I'm not trolling, or trying to hurt someone's feelings. Right now, I'm telling you about my mental condition because I want to come to an understanding, move past this, and get on to the discussion I had intended to create with my post. Admitting you are technically Autistic isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, especially on a public forum, but for the sake of you thinking that I'm some sort of troll, I'm willing to explain it. 

In summation: Like I said before, if I wanted to spend my time trolling, there are places that have much more fertility for internet butthurt and nerdrage. I speak the way I speak because I have a mental condition; I am blunt, straightforward, and do not process or feel emotions the same way as most people do; as such, some of the things I say rub people the wrong way. I have been nothing but civil with the responding members of this forum, yet in return I have been told what I'm doing based off a preliminary judgement, I've been insulted outright, and I've been warned with punishment for reasons that are completely beyond me. I am attempting to harvest an actual conversation, so that I can understand the Point of View of others, yet at every turn I am outcasted and treated like some sort of bad guy.

Lastly, and again in repetition, I will apologize for the misunderstanding. As I have stated a few times now, I do not process or speak in a manner like most people. I'm sorry this whole conversation got subverted like this, though, despite my best efforts, I've been trying to avoid it. If you're going to ban me after this, I'd like a solid explanation. I'm baring my insides, here, because I genuinely like this community, and I genuinely want to have a conversation.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 25, 2011)




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## kslespaul (Jul 25, 2011)

@Nateman61392 I understand where you are coming from, I mean, thats basically my feelings towards Avenged Sevenfold, I understand why some people would like them but the type of music they put out just clashes with me personally. That said, i respect them and would not question someone harshly for liking them. I am not a huge limp bizkit fan but i do find Wes borland's playing style very interesting. Look at the tab for "my way", wes uses extended jazz style chords to layer his distortion, it only sounds simplistic from the outside looking in. 

If you keep on arguing with everyone you have a very good chance at pissing people off and getting banned. I am not trying to burn you personally, I am just trying to say maybe you should try to be a little more tactful with your approach to your question.

- Karl


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

kslespaul said:


> @Nateman61392 I understand where you are coming from, I mean, thats basically my feelings towards Avenged Sevenfold, I understand why some people would like them but the type of music they put out just clashes with me personally. That said, i respect them and would not question someone harshly for liking them. I am not a huge limp bizkit fan but i do find Wes borland's playing style very interesting. Look at the tab for "my way", wes uses extended jazz style chords to layer his distortion, it only sounds simplistic from the outside looking in.
> 
> If you keep on arguing with everyone you have a very good chance at pissing people off and getting banned. I am not trying to burn you personally, I am just trying to say maybe you should try to be a little more tactful with your approach to your question.
> 
> - Karl



I can see where you're coming from, and I think that's the problem. I'm literally not trying to argue... The blunt and tactless nature of how I talk is just a byproduct of my Asperger's. I really can't think of any other way to respond. My intention isn't to argue, it's to get passed this and actually get to something of substance.


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## eaeolian (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> Or maybe the problem here is that you're trying to tell someone, with a mental condition that prevents him from thinking/feeling like most people, that he's a troll because of the way he thought to phrase a question, without understanding the way he thinks? Have you ever heard of Asperger's, sir? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up before you make any more judgements about me. I have Asperger's, and the way I phrased my first question, is exactly how I would have thought to phrase it, seriously. I don't feel or react to any emotional stimuli like most people.



My wife has Asperger's - as do some of my co-workers - so spare me the lectures. It doesn't affect your ability to understand the that if a mod tells you to drop it, you drop it. My advice to you at this point is to stop arguing the point, and go read the rules, since you're within .002" of getting banned.


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## Church2224 (Jul 25, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> My wife has Asperger's - as do some of my co-workers - so spare me the lectures. It doesn't affect your ability to understand the that if a mod tells you to drop it, you drop it. My advice to you at this point is to stop arguing the point, and go read the rules, since you're within .002" of getting banned.



I have Asperger's as well. He needs to quit using it an an excuse. It is making all of us look bad...


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## Razzy (Jul 25, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I have Asperger's as well. He needs to quit using it an an excuse. It is making all of us look bad...



I used to do in-home healthcare for a lady that had MS, and her son had Asperger's syndrome, I know how it works. It drives me nuts when people use it as an excuse to act like a douchebag.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

Mod Edit: Stop being an ignorant ass.


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## Nateman61392 (Jul 25, 2011)

Razzy said:


> I used to do in-home healthcare for a lady that had MS, and her son had Asperger's syndrome, I know how it works. It drives me nuts when people use it as an excuse to act like a douchebag.



And yup, I was totally acting like a douchebag. That's why I apologized profusely for offending people.


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## Church2224 (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> Watch me care, at this point. I've heard rumors from some of my friends that the mods on this website are total pieces of shit, and I guess they were right. You've obviously got a problem with being wrong in any way, shape, or form.
> 
> And no, it obviously doesn't affect my ability to drop something. it does, however, affect my ability to understand how you can be such a cocky git to someone who's trying to apologize to you. If this is how you're going to treat people who want to come onto your forum with a difference of opinion, apologize for unintentionally insulting someone, and then question why they're still being harassed, then I don't want to be a part of your community. The best part is that you're lording some ban over me, as if your'e some essential website to my life. Stop trying to act like you're an authority figure when you're some average schmuck who mods on a forum.
> 
> ...



The mods over here are actually pretty cool imho.
especially since they take a lot of time to contribute to threads with useful information. Strict? Yes, but no one wants this forum to end up like /b/, we are /7/ and we do not take Kindly to assholes like you, and the Mods will bring the ban-hammer down on anyone that us an asshat. EAeolian is good people, he is just strict and wants this forum to be a great place. Max is one of the most informative and unbiased mods I have met, always a great guy that has great information. DJ is awesome and knows all things Jackson. Technomancer, Randy, all are great people here. You just got yourself banned asshat. 

And now, I am not brown-nosing, just saying like them I love this forum and we got some great people. We do not need assholes like you. And you using Asperger's as an excuse is a disgrace to the rest of us that do have it. I highly doubt you even do have it. 

And why do my threads always end up like this.....?


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## Razzy (Jul 25, 2011)

I hope they give Wes a sick sig, with all kinds of awesome stuff on it like he's done in the past. A Warrior with piezos would be killer.


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## eaeolian (Jul 25, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> You just got yourself banned asshat.



Nah, that's what he wants, so he can run back to HC and bitch about what assholes we are. I'm content to let him be barbequed by you guys if he doesn't figure it out.

Anyway, back to the thread: Happy to see Jackson with a high-profile artist.


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## Church2224 (Jul 25, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> Nah, that's what he wants, so he can run back to HC and bitch about what assholes we are. I'm content to let him be barbequed by you guys if he doesn't figure it out.
> 
> Anyway, back to the thread: Happy to see Jackson with a high-profile artist.



Haha, with pleasure! 

Agreed, first Chris Broderick is with them, now Jackson has Wes, be great to see more people going to Jackson.

I am hoping that Jackson will be experiencing a turn around soon, who knows what could happen?


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## Rook (Jul 25, 2011)

TOTM

Last time I laughed this hard, it was at David Shankle.

To keep it on topic, @BrainArt haha, you get my point. If I say Deftones isn't nu metal, some prog fan will put me in my place, if I say it is somebody else. I wouldn't say it's far out of the ballpark but who gives a shit, it's a great band!


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## garza (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> How am I trolling? I honestly want to know. To me, his playing, as with 99% of nu-metal is "unacceptable" for being considered "good." And honestly, how do you know I won't change my mind? I'll be the first to admit I haven't gone deep into Limp Bizkit, maybe there's something I missed in there, I don't know. And you have my point of view ALL wrong. Case in point: I absolutely abhor the band August Burns Red, but I can understand why other people enjoy them, and I don't condemn them. Another CiP: With the entirety of my being I cannot stand hardcore punk, but I don't condemn it. I can see why people would enjoy it. I'm not saying it's bad for someone to like, I'm saying my brian literally cannot process why anyone would call it "good." I listen to stuff like Venom, which isn't "good" musically in any way (just ask Henry Rollins), but I still enjoy it. I'm not saying you can't enjoy Limp Bizkit or Wes Borland, I'm saying it does not compute to me, based on the given examples, why you would call him "good."
> 
> Also, that fail attempt at an insult at the beginning was hilarious. You know literally nothing about me, yet you're going to say I'm not elite at anything? My point in saying that was, 9/10 times when you say you don't like a certain sub-genre of metal that isn't extreme death or black metal, someone's going to come in and say you're an elitist.



Geezz....


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 25, 2011)

God damn metal hipsters.


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## Daemoniac (Jul 25, 2011)

I am a little sad to see him move away from the Yamaha he was using... that thing was gorgeous. I assume this means they won't be making them now too?


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## engage757 (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> I feel like I might get banned for saying this for some reason, but this guy is just awful, as well as his band. Nu Metal is a genre that died years ago, and should stay dead. The fact that Wes Borland is getting any credit as a "good" guitar player scares me. I know taste is subjective, but his guitar writing (and band) is some of the most thoughtless, bland, overhyped stuff I've ever heard. Man, Lady Gaga's synths have more layer and depth than Wes Borland's songs. Nu Metal is an affront not only to metal, but rap. And don't think I'm not down for some old-fashioned cave-man moshing. The Acacia Strain (who are arguably very simplistic) are one of my favorite bands. I understand the greatness of making something simple, yet heavy, or simple, yet catchy and good, but there's a line drawn in the sand where things become unacceptable. 99% of Nu-Metal is on the bad side of that line.
> 
> And please don't take this as me bashing any of you who enjoy his work as people, I'm not. I'm calling into question the taste here. I honestly want to know how you can call Wes Borland a good guitar player, or Limp Bizkit a good band.
> 
> Also, I'm waiting for someone to call me a death or black metal elitist.



Listen to what folks are saying here man. I can't stand Fred Durst, but Wes has always created insane, heavy groove guitar riffs. And the bass and drums of Limp Bizkit? Amazing! Great musicians with a shitty vocalist. Listen to some of there grooves sometime. Read RATM-esque. And I think we can all agree on Tom Morello's status as an amazing guitarist.


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## engage757 (Jul 25, 2011)

Nateman61392 said:


> Case in point: I absolutely abhor the band August Burns Red, but I can understand why other people enjoy them, and I don't condemn them.




The Acacia Strain is not considered good guitar playing by anyone I have met recently, and I love that band. But it is a lot of chug-a-chug.
August Burns Red is extremely technical for the style of music they are doing and well recognized for that. 

It isn't for us to condemn anyone, but Wes Borland is really a good guitar player, and he may be in a different genre than you are used to listening to, so you may not be able to appreciate it. 



Oh, and @ everyone else. 

I guess I never considered Deftones Nu-metal? They are one of my top fav bands of all time! 

I think the Warrior is kind of a different choice for Wes, wonder when we will see him with a SLAT?


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## themike (Jul 25, 2011)

Wes blows my mind with how easily he incorporates his whammy bar in riffs smoothly.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 25, 2011)

His work with Black Light Burns really let him show his colours more. He has a very nice, unique clean tone.

I really liked the shape of his Yamaha and plan on getting a 7 string semi hollow custom made down the line in a similar style.


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## BigBaldIan (Jul 26, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Haha, with pleasure!
> 
> Agreed, first Chris Broderick is with them, now Jackson has Wes, be great to see more people going to Jackson.
> 
> I am hoping that Jackson will be experiencing a turn around soon, who knows what could happen?


 
 although for Wes it seems a little bit of a left-field choice. He's gone from PRS (traditional) to Yamaha (semi-accoustic with trem) to Jackson Warriors. Actually I think I may have just shot my own argument down....


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## Loomer (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, as harshly as Nate may have said it, I still do agree with the guy  
Does this make me a bad person?


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## signalgrey (Jul 26, 2011)

Loomer said:


> Well, as harshly as Nate may have said it, I still do agree with the guy
> Does this make me a bad person?



course not. its not so much what he was trying to say, it was how he was saying it and how much shit and cock was coming out of his mouth at the same time. There was a lot of shit/cock. Then using Asbergers as an excuse for being a grade A dildo. Then him dying to have someone call him an "elitist".


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## Ironbird (Jul 26, 2011)

Whoa, it's never safe to start a Limp Bizkit-related topic!

I like Wes, and I like Jacksons. It's a good combo in my book.

I also want to see how many n00bs start threads saying they saw Wes playing a Xiphos.


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## Loomer (Jul 26, 2011)

signalgrey said:


> course not. its not so much what he was trying to say, it was how he was saying it and how much shit and cock was coming out of his mouth at the same time. There was a lot of shit/cock. Then using Asbergers as an excuse for being a grade A dildo. Then him dying to have someone call him an "elitist".



Well, I am a black and death metal elitist (with a side of punk, hardcore and a lotta grind), so that explains my sentiment perfectly, doesn't it? 

That said, I do like how Wes makes a big deal out of his visual presentation on stage. He's always looked interesting, at the very least, and his look these days is enormously cool. I have nothing bad to say about the guy at all.

His vocalist on the other hand...


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## BigBaldIan (Jul 26, 2011)

The bit that gets me in the video, is that he talks about an old RR that he was given and how he's used that model in the past but is now using warriors.

He may have fancied a change or Jackson might need to drum-up some sales for that particular model I guess.


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## signalgrey (Jul 26, 2011)

BigBaldIan said:


> The bit that gets me in the video, is that he talks about an old RR that he was given and how he's used that model in the past but is now using warriors.
> 
> He may have fancied a change or Jackson might need to drum-up some sales for that particular model I guess.



he uses it for certain songs such as "faith".


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## engage757 (Jul 26, 2011)

Loomer said:


> Well, as harshly as Nate may have said it, I still do agree with the guy
> Does this make me a bad person?



Yes. 




Kidding!


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## DanielVE (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm going to their show in about 2 hours... ill try to get some pics of wes and his guitars


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 26, 2011)

I think the Warrior suits Wes, especially considering that he'll play literally anything to follow his muse. More star shaped guitars for all! 

On a side note, I was just reading this and laughed.


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

The WR1 is one of the most comfortable guitars I've played standing or sitting, so it potentially gaining more popularity is a good thing. Other than that I've never listened to anything Wes has done besides LB's songs that got on the radio and... well, I have nothing good to say about those


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## Church2224 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I think the Warrior suits Wes, especially considering that he'll play literally anything to follow his muse. More star shaped guitars for all!
> 
> On a side note, I was just reading this and laughed.



That guy who mentioned he had Asperger's earlier is just using it as an excuse, and probably does not have it. It makes the ones, like me, who have actually been diagnosed look bad.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 26, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> On a side note, I was just reading this and laughed.


 
Haha, I read that earlier today too, and was _this close_ to linking it here .


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> That guy who mentioned he had Asperger's earlier is just using it as an excuse, and probably does not have it. It makes the ones, like me, who have actually been diagnosed look bad.



Yeah I could say that I have it as I've several 'symptoms' but the reality is that I'm just an asshole.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 26, 2011)

In an attempt to get this back on topic:



vampiregenocide said:


> I doubt it as he doesn't really like 7 strings.


 
He's all but abandoned them completely right during Chocolate Starfish. Wes, in essence was really using a 7 string for the sake of using one. He tried it using the standard tuning, but didn't like the low B getting in the way. He even went ahead of tuning it standard but with the extra high E tuned an octave lower. It didn't work at all, then he just decided to leave the extra unison High E that everyone will recognise on the first 2 albums. It was the late 90s and Korn was booming I guess. 

By the time the Chocolate Starfish sessions happened, he stated that all his songs were compatible with a 6 string anyway, so he ditched the 7 and grabbed a PRS. 

Also keep in mind that during the earlier albums, Wes also stated that he hates whammy bars. Again that changed in Chocolate Starfish. So Wes really is, as I stated earlier, the kind of guy that will use anything to follow his muse (also includes leaving LB on numerous occasions). 

EDIT: Which leads me to ideas of what Wes would do with a custom shop Jackson Warrior:

- Piezo equipped
- Possible Chambered body like the Dominion Mark Morton sig

Given Wes' nature, the possibilites are both endless and quite yummy.


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## Church2224 (Jul 26, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah I could say that I have it as I've several 'symptoms' but the reality is that I'm just an asshole.





Not all people with Asperger's are assholes. Some of them are great people, but they just can never function "right" socially, so to speak. Myself included I never picked up on proper social skills up until maybe recently, have poor coordination, I have NEVER been able to adapt to changes in anything at all, I focus on one or two interests at one time (first is was anything with a motor, from cars to tractors and even to lawnmowers, then all things military, then guitar playing, I have kind of grown out of that and have a more balanced life), I always have talked differently than others, up until I was about 16 I was VERY immature for my age, then all of a sudden I grew out of that and people now say I am more mature than some adults I know, I can never take a joke, at all, period. I have always been sensitive to loud, sudden noises. My point is, having Asperger's does not make you an asshole, nor does being an asshole mean you have Aperger's. It is a list of things.

But back to the topic at hand. I want to see what other models he will play besides the Warrior and RR models. But I am also looking at this as strange, yet, not surprising. The only metalesque guitars I picture Wes Using are his old Ibanez models, then he switch to PRS, then Yamaha and Mayones, Then all of a Sudden Jackson. He seems to have a wide variety of tastes in guitars maybe. All I am going to say is a Wes Borland Signature Warrior will be on my list of Must Get Guitars (Hear me Jackson?!?!?!?!)

What made Wes go for the Seven String in the first place, since he really was not that big of a fan of it, then automatically ditch it afterwards? Ibanez Marketing Perhaps?


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 26, 2011)

How bizarre. I think Wes is a fantastic player and an equally fantastic song writer. Jacksons are so un-nu metal though


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 26, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I want to see what other models he will play besides the Warrior and RR models. But I am also looking at this as strange, yet, not surprising. The only metalesque guitars I picture Wes Using are his old Ibanez models, then he switch to PRS, then Yamaha and Mayones, Then all of a Sudden Jackson. He seems to have a wide variety of tastes in guitars maybe. All I am going to say is a Wes Borland Signature Warrior will be on my list of Must Get Guitars (Hear me Jackson?!?!?!?!)


 
Regarding Ibanez, Remember the Ibanez AX7? That was the product that Ibanez were using to market Wes Borland at the time. Arguably, it wasn't very metal compared to the RG7s he was using. Plus his LACS 4 string was an AX too. That model was another one of Wes' jumping taste in guitars. 



Church2224 said:


> What made Wes go for the Seven String in the first place, since he really was not that big of a fan of it, then automatically ditch it afterwards? Ibanez Marketing Perhaps?


 
Keep in mind that it was the late 90s and Korn were getting on the airwaves. By the time Follow The Leader was released, everybody wanted a 7 string in a way Steve Vai never would have expected. And add to the fact that Limp Bizkit and Korn are good friends and touring together.


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## Justin Bailey (Jul 27, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Jackson is just one of many companies that doesn't get the respect or attention they deserve. It really sucks. Kind of like my fav company. Caparison is only known to a very few. An elite circle as it were.  I hope Jackson and Caparison start getting more attention. Too many fender and Gibson guys out there!



Do you live under a rock, sir?


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## Loomer (Jul 27, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Yeah I could say that I have it as I've several 'symptoms' but the reality is that I'm just an asshole.



Hahaha, you and me both!


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## Church2224 (Jul 27, 2011)

Justin Bailey said:


> Do you live under a rock, sir?



We may see more Jacksons on here because a lot of people like them, Including Myself, DJPharaoh, EAeolian, Corpsegrinder, and many more. But in the grand spectrum of the guitar world they do not get as much attention as say Ibanez, ESP, Dean and Schecter do. Granted a lot of people KNOW of Jackson, but not many people own Jackson, especially USA Select and Custom Shop Jacksons...


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## Rook (Jul 27, 2011)

^I own an RR1, SLSMG and KE3  

I've considered several others (WR1, SL1, SL2H, SLAT3-7) just never got round to picking one up. When I worked in a shop, we sold tonnes of Jacksons, probably one of our best brands, particularly the JS stuff, JS's recently are fantastic for the money! However what you say about the USA's is definitely true here, and at £2250 for a basic USA it's not surprising! People are shocked by mine because they seem so expensive. I imported mine from the USA (cost about £1100 new, back when it was $2.10 to the £1. Anything tat boosts the popularity of the USA models is great, the price has to come down first!


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 27, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> In an attempt to get this back on topic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I believe he was only really using it because of his endorsement with Ibanez, and they wanted to push the whole 7 string thing with the nu-metal movement.


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## Hyliannightmare (Jul 27, 2011)

that guitar is preeeeeety


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## Church2224 (Jul 27, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^I own an RR1, SLSMG and KE3
> 
> I've considered several others (WR1, SL1, SL2H, SLAT3-7) just never got round to picking one up. When I worked in a shop, we sold tonnes of Jacksons, probably one of our best brands, particularly the JS stuff, JS's recently are fantastic for the money! However what you say about the USA's is definitely true here, and at £2250 for a basic USA it's not surprising! People are shocked by mine because they seem so expensive. I imported mine from the USA (cost about £1100 new, back when it was $2.10 to the £1. Anything tat boosts the popularity of the USA models is great, the price has to come down first!



Well considering for what you get, Jackson USA guitars are very reasonably priced IMHO. In the States they are not as much, $2,000 for an SL2h is not as bad, considering the gutiar will be a quality instrument. Some of them are pricey, yes, but compared to other manufacturers Jacksons are not as bad.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 27, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> they do not get as much attention as say Ibanez, ESP, Dean and Schecter do. Granted a lot of people KNOW of Jackson, but not many people own Jackson, especially USA Select and Custom Shop Jacksons...


 
To be fair, not many people have Custom Shop Ibanez, ESPs, Deans or Schecters, either. ESP probably has the most, but compared to the number that have their import brands (LTD, Edwards, Grassroots, etc) the percentage is still probably pretty small.


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## DanielVE (Jul 27, 2011)

went to their show yesterday, it was awesome  . And Fred wasn't an asshole... maybe he is getting better with age 

I took some pics, but they sucked (cell phone camera). The videos are better tho, i'll upload them soon.

For now, heres some pics.


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## Church2224 (Jul 27, 2011)

DanielVE said:


> went to their show yesterday, it was awesome  . And Fred wasn't an asshole... maybe he is getting better with age
> 
> I took some pics, but they sucked (cell phone camera). The videos are better tho, i'll upload them soon.
> 
> For now, heres some pics.



Thanks for the pics man!


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## Church2224 (Jul 27, 2011)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> To be fair, not many people have Custom Shop Ibanez, ESPs, Deans or Schecters, either. ESP probably has the most, but compared to the number that have their import brands (LTD, Edwards, Grassroots, etc) the percentage is still probably pretty small.



This is also true.


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## djpharoah (Jul 27, 2011)

I always thought Wes wrote some killer riffs. Add him to Jacksons, guitars that I love, and well


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## Rook (Jul 27, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Well considering for what you get, Jackson USA guitars are very reasonably priced IMHO. In the States they are not as much, $2,000 for an SL2h is not as bad, considering the gutiar will be a quality instrument. Some of them are pricey, yes, but compared to other manufacturers Jacksons are not as bad.



I totally agree, but they're pushing $4000 here, you can get a band new PRS for less (not that that means anything to me personally).

Put it this way, Daemoness custom with fancy top, hand picked woods built to my exact spec in every way, probably cost in the region of £1800, £1500 is the base price if you get a solid finish, which with most Jacksons you do get. A Blackmachine (if you can get one) B6 around £1700, I think the B2's are about £2500, PRS Custom 24 £2450, all making £2250 for a Jackson USA Soloist look a little too much. That and there are about 3 Jackson USA dealers in this country.

I love them and will continue to, but I will only ever buy used or import them, if I were buying new I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft bargepole, I'd just got for a middle of the road Prestige Ibanez. I know the Ibanez wouldn't be as good, but with money taken into account I'd rather have a 2570 with my own pickups, machine heads, etc etc slapped on.

I love them though, seriously, I will buy another before the year is out probably. My shopping list is a little bigger than my wallet at the moment... And my living room...


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## DanielVE (Jul 27, 2011)

and here is the video of yesterdays show


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## Church2224 (Jul 27, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I totally agree, but they're pushing $4000 here, you can get a band new PRS for less (not that that means anything to me personally).
> 
> Put it this way, Daemoness custom with fancy top, hand picked woods built to my exact spec in every way, probably cost in the region of £1800, £1500 is the base price if you get a solid finish, which with most Jacksons you do get. A Blackmachine (if you can get one) B6 around £1700, I think the B2's are about £2500, PRS Custom 24 £2450, all making £2250 for a Jackson USA Soloist look a little too much. That and there are about 3 Jackson USA dealers in this country.
> 
> ...



4 grand for a USA Production Jackson? This will cause a lot of out UK Brethren to miss out on such a great thing...

I would suggest These guys for a great stock of USA Jacksons if you want to import them. A guy I know over at JCFOnline loves them, and I have talked to their owner myself, GREAT people, they will be my Jackson dealer from here on out-

Note their prices are negotiable, and they give deals to first time buyers-

Fender Custom Shop | Jackson Guitars | Charvel | Parker | Stratocaster

and STAY AWAY FROM GUITAR CENTER AND MUSICIAN;S FIEND!!!


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