# Is Marshall Harrison an asshole?



## Charles (Jun 11, 2010)

I was going through some of his YouTube videos today, and the only thing more impressive to me than the man's playing is his attitude.

Everything said by Marshall or written by him gives off a distinct air of bitterness and elitist snobbery. In his legato lesson he speaks derogatorily about "Petrucci legato" (which he insists is not "real legato like Chopin") and the use of pull offs as an illegitimate technique because it's not "how Chopin sounded". He also repeatedly plays up this story about how he was supposed to try out for Planet X but because of car trouble was passed in favor of Tony MacAlpine (who he refers to lovingly as Yngwie Jr.). I've heard he also bashes guys like Paul Gilbert for their lack of theoretical know-how and on the whole is just kind of an obnoxious human.

So, lets lay this to rest, what's bigger? Marshall's chops or his ego?


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 11, 2010)

thats funny, you should of posted the vid so we could all laugh


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## Charles (Jun 11, 2010)




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## MSalonen (Jun 11, 2010)

What a tool.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jun 11, 2010)

Hes an ass, but maybe the elitist attitude is what pushed him to get his chops to where they are so anally.

Not saying it justifies him being an ass, just mighta helped because his chops are undeniably beast.


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## auxioluck (Jun 11, 2010)

It's one of those tough calls where you can say that he has the chops to back up his attitude, but also makes you wonder if the attitude prevented things from happening in his career.

But...it is the internet, so shit-talking is bound to happen.

Then again, he could just be using it as a pneumonic device for listeners...like "Think about what Petrucci sounds like, now listen to the difference..."


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## technomancer (Jun 11, 2010)

He's a complete ass, and sorry but from what I've heard of his playing it's not very musical either (was just listening to clips from his album). Holdsworth makes me go, "Damn that was cool, let me listen to that again". He makes me go, "Oh damn that was shrill, please turn that off".


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 11, 2010)

yea, def a tough call.....

 hes prob like "ah u'll never get it anyways, y'm i even wasting my time"


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## MSalonen (Jun 11, 2010)

auxioluck said:


> It's one of those tough calls where you can say that he has the chops to back up his attitude, but also makes you wonder if the attitude prevented things from happening in his career.



I wouldn't be surprised if that's been the case.

Or, alternately, if it comes from bitterness out of not achieving what he might have set out to when younger.


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## Steve08 (Jun 11, 2010)

Does he call Tony an Yngwie Jr. in that video? I would have watched it the whole way through since there are good ideas in there but 95% of it is just him playing and the rest not-so-clear talking


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## ShadyDavey (Jun 11, 2010)

He's certainly not shy about holding forth with an opinion but quite honestly when he's derogatory about incredible players like Macalpine, Gilbert and Petrucci it does sit rather badly with his undeniable aptitude on the guitar. He's probably got more chops at his command that 99% of the other guitarists out there but it's clearly not enough to realise the sort of breakthroughs that a more rounded player would have achieved..

That said, I've talked to him a couple of times via PM and he's been both polite and helpful so perhaps it's either a front or a misinterpretation of his somewhat laconic mode of speech.

I wish I had his chops....


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## splinter8451 (Jun 11, 2010)

Short answer. Yes. 

He is a great technical player. And an ass.


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## Guitar Asylum (Jun 11, 2010)

ShadyDavey said:


> That said, I've talked to him a couple of times via PM and he's been both polite and helpful so perhaps it's either a front or *a misinterpretation of his somewhat laconic mode of speech*.
> 
> I wish I had his chops....



I've dealt with him on the phone a few times and he was always really cool. I think anything he says that might seem derogatory is just because of the frank way he speaks.


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## XxXPete (Jun 11, 2010)

ShadyDavey said:


> He's certainly not shy about holding forth with an opinion but quite honestly when he's derogatory about incredible players like Macalpine, Gilbert and Petrucci it does sit rather badly with his undeniable aptitude on the guitar. He's probably got more chops at his command that 99% of the other guitarists out there but it's clearly not enough to realise the sort of breakthroughs that a more rounded player would have achieved..
> 
> That said, I've talked to him a couple of times via PM and he's been both polite and helpful so perhaps it's either a front or a misinterpretation of his somewhat laconic mode of speech.
> 
> I wish I had his chops....


Well I have emailed him several times..and HE NEVER replies....And I have always talked GOOD about him on forums and youtube..YET..he never replies..Kinda weird!


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## jaxadam (Jun 11, 2010)

Guitar Asylum said:


> I've dealt with him on the phone a few times and he was always really cool.



That's been my experience. I've had a few e-mails with him back and forth, and he seems to be a pretty nice enough type of guy. 

He is definitely a very, very smart person, and sometimes very, very smart people see their own deep way into things. I'm sure his "derogatory" observations are just the way he particularly perceives a certain thing, and there's no real harm behind them.


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## CFB (Jun 11, 2010)

I did a bit of google. I found this 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/1228896-post22.html

He sounds like a real jerk. He has incredible technique, but acts like a major asshat.


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## ShadyDavey (Jun 11, 2010)

Guitar Asylum said:


> I've dealt with him on the phone a few times and he was always really cool. I think anything he says that might seem derogatory is just because of the frank way he speaks.



Exactly - he's to the point and doesn't mince words which could be taken as being anything from frank to rude. I don't know him personally so I'm really sitting on the fence here. 

I guess everyone has their bad days and with musicians of some repute or notoriety then anything they say is, for better or worse, noted somewhere


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## Charles (Jun 11, 2010)

CFB said:


> I did a bit of google. I found this
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/1228896-post22.html
> 
> He sounds like a real jerk. He has incredible technique, but acts like a major asshat.



"When I hear him play with ridiculously wide vibrato simultaneously sounding wretched and disrespecting the great classical music legends, I can remain silent no longer"

Really? I love classical music like no other, but not everyone is trying to emulate Bach or Beethoven...this guy needs to get over his self perceived importance with regards to some sort of rigid order of how music "should" be. 

And how about that "hippie BS"? I think it's called manners. Just because someone happens to not be a great player doesn't mean you have to smite them down with your almighty intellectual thunder.

Sheesh.


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## ShadyDavey (Jun 11, 2010)

There are indeed methods of expressing oneself without taking an almighty verbal shite on someone's head......but it's not as if he doesn't like some aspects of Paul's playing.

Ah well, can't please all the people all the time.


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 11, 2010)

CFB said:


> I did a bit of google. I found this
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/1228896-post22.html
> 
> He sounds like a real jerk. He has incredible technique, but acts like a major asshat.


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## splinter8451 (Jun 11, 2010)

Charles said:


> "When I hear him play with ridiculously wide vibrato simultaneously sounding wretched and disrespecting the great classical music legends, I can remain silent no longer"
> 
> Really? I love classical music like no other, but not everyone is trying to emulate Bach or Beethoven...this guy needs to get over his self perceived importance with regards to some sort of rigid order of how music "should" be.
> 
> ...



Yeah that explanation/rant of his is kinda lame. 

Does he really think that every musician out there is trying to pay their respects to classical composers  And lets be clear guys, the ONLY reason he has respect for Paul Gilbert is because of his exceptional transcriptions of Haydn. 

I can never figure out why he decided to play electric guitar. The electric guitar world does not need that kind of snobbery.  His attitude takes the fun out of music very quickly.


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## S-O (Jun 11, 2010)

The man can play circles around me, but I do feel he comes off as an ass hat. I bought his guitar book, and it is really cool. But he has done little else. He can't be all bad though.


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## Ironberry (Jun 11, 2010)

CFB said:


> I did a bit of google. I found this
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/1228896-post22.html
> 
> He sounds like a real jerk. He has incredible technique, but acts like a major asshat.



I agree that CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is good, but simply telling someone to stop playing all together is just impolite. I also found it insulting how he refers to the readers of that post "neophytes", which I later learned means beginner or novice.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 11, 2010)

It all comes down to opinions. He says what he thinks, and some people don't like it or feel offended. That is everyday life. Personally, I am blown away by his skill, but I also think that he does seem a bit full of himself, but it's just like Malmsteen. You enjoy their playing and disregard everything they say.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 11, 2010)

Vinnie Vincent just phoned me laughing his ass off about this guy. Couldn't quite understand VV though...


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2010)

Yes.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 11, 2010)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Vinnie Vincent just phoned me laughing his ass off about this guy. Couldn't quite understand VV though...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 11, 2010)

As much shit I see flung his way I haven't seen or heard anything that really makes his certain brand of "ass-holiness" that's any worse than a lot of players and people out there. 

If I got a dollar for every player I've heard talk shit about Petrucci, Gilbert, T-Mac, etc. I would be richer than the sheiks. I don't see why his word should be held to a higher standard.  

If you really think he's an ass, then keep it to yourself. The _worst_ thing you can do to an artist is to *not* talk about them.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 11, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> As much shit I see flung his way I haven't seen or heard anything that really makes his certain brand of "ass-holiness" that's any worse than a lot of players and people out there.
> 
> If I got a dollar for every player I've heard talk shit about Petrucci, Gilbert, T-Mac, etc. I would be richer than the sheiks. I don't see why his word should be held to a higher standard.
> 
> If you really think he's an ass, then keep it to yourself. The _worst_ thing you can do to an artist is to *not* talk about them.



 Pretty much sums it up. 

You win the thread.


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2010)

Well, good for both of you but I respectfully disagree. The guy goes out of his way to bash people while building up what he does and in a lot of contexts, there's a little bit of "honor among thieves" in a sense about talented musicians but he has none, along with a total lack of tact. Just because Yngwie is the same brand of douche as this guy doesn't excuse it.


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## whisper (Jun 11, 2010)

couldn't make it through the whole vid.
no doubting his skillz, but, i found it funny that he described legato as no pull offs, yet when he descends, he is pulling off. Hm. typical hater, shit talker if you ask me. Uses a commonly known 'conspiracy theorist' argument, as in, 'only I have the REAL TRUE technique (in this case), everyone else is brainwashed by the illuminati (Petrucci in this case)" 
Typical of consp. theorists as well, very smart sounding - but highly self-diluted.
Just my knee jerk, skeptical reaction to a vid I couldn't force myself to sit through


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> Well, good for both of you but I respectfully disagree. The guy goes out of his way to bash people while building up what he does and in a lot of contexts, there's a little bit of "honor among thieves" in a sense about talented musicians but he has none, along with a total lack of tact. Just because Yngwie is the same brand of douche as this guy doesn't excuse it.



So in order to combat his ass-holiness we should all stoop down to his level, talking shit on the internet, and be assholes? 

No thanks. I'd rather take the high road and just ignore him. It's not my _right_ to impeach his opinions on a personal level. Just like I wouldn't like him to attack my opinions.

The guy is questioning famous guitarist's (who are widely known and accepted to be great) techniques on YouTube. Perhaps we should all have as thick a skin about as the artists he's "bashing".


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## ittoa666 (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> Well, good for both of you but I respectfully disagree. The guy goes out of his way to bash people while building up what he does and in a lot of contexts, there's a little bit of "honor among thieves" in a sense about talented musicians but he has none, along with a total lack of tact. Just because Yngwie is the same brand of douche as this guy doesn't excuse it.



I haven't bought his music or supported him in any way, and I disregard anything he says. Like I said before, he has an opinion just like everyone else, and it may offend people, but he can say what he wants. He obviously has talent by the boatload, and I won't disregard that because he's an arrogant ass. Playing guitar and voicing a harsh opinion are two different things.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 12, 2010)

ittoa666 said:


> I haven't bought his music or supported him in any way, and I disregard anything he says. Like I said before, he has an opinion just like everyone else, and it may offend people, but he can say what he wants. He obviously has talent by the boatload, and I won't disregard that because he's an arrogant ass. Playing guitar and voicing a harsh opinion are two different things.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2010)

Wow, what kinda society are we living in where we need to pad every statement with "he has his right to feel the way he does" blah blah blah behind every guy who wants to be a dick? It's called _common courtesy_. Did I or anyone else say the guy should be lynched or thrown in jail for his opinion? No. So marching out the "he has an opinion like everyone else" argument is one that's unnecessary at this point. He's a talented musician and because of his skill along with his desire to share his knowledge comes a reasonably high podium to share his material. The opinionated bullshit that colors his commentary does very little in the way of making his point when it comes to the lesson at hand... it's just prickish and rude.

I get really sick of people jumping on the "WTF ARE YOU ?!? THE OPINION POLICE?!?" when you call a spade a spade. Paul Gilbert didn't insult Marshall Harrison.... Marshall Harrison insulted Paul Gilbert. When he decides to be a dick, he becomes fair game. I'm sorry but it's pretty much considered common knowledge at this point that that's how he is, so if you want to play devil's advocate, go take your bleeding heart to the countless boards that are simultaneously nodding their head at what a colossal asshole the guy is. 



ittoa666 said:


> Playing guitar and voicing a harsh opinion are two different things.



 The color commentary surrounding a LESSON is unnecessary.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 12, 2010)

What society are we living in when you don't join in on the group feeding frenzy over an artist on YouTube (on YouTube. really.) making a "rude" and "prickish" comment about a third party it's because you're part of the "'He Has The Right To His Opinion' Police"?

Though, I'm backing out of this one. As I don't especially like the guy and would rather not mention his name. That's the best way to get back at someone trying to have a music career.


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## whisper (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> go take your bleeding heart to the countless boards that are simultaneously nodding their head at what a colossal asshole the guy is.



fuck off over to facebook and that would suit them fine, haha.
well said, sir.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> The color commentary surrounding a LESSON is unnecessary.



There's something we can all agree on. A guitar lesson is a guitar lesson, not a contrived bitchfest about other people.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2010)

FWIW, I take Marshall's comments to heart because stylistically, I love his playing, he's TREMENDOUSLY talented, and I learn something from watching his videos. Others may be better at regulating themselves in saying "don't listen to or mention" somebody because they possess a descenting opinion or grouchy demeanor but in much the way we're saying the comments having nothing to do with the music, I can't swear off the guy's playing because he's quick to fly off the handle about other players. Consider it kinda like bitching about your day at work or your boss, but is it so bad you're willing to quit your job over it... ? Well, for some people or situations the answer is yes but for some people, no.

That said, I complain about Marshall (as do other people) because we turn to him for his wealth of knowledge and the dick-headatry that punctuates it is little but a distraction. Call it what you will, but in a professional setting (because Marshall is a bigger deal than "random youtube guy"), ragging on somebody for their skill or their approach to their craft is considered a faus paus.


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## BlackMetalVenom (Jun 12, 2010)

He may come off as an ass, but it might just stem from disappointment or feeling of neglect; people know of Marshall, but not as many say Petrucci or Gilbert.
I'm by no means defending him and I'm not going comparing anyone (musician or otherwise) in the following statement to this...
But aren't you left with some sort of bitter feeling when Slash has made it big for himself, yet Holdsworth remains an enigma?


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## Nights_Blood (Jun 12, 2010)

I think some people are too quick to take it in either direction. Some are shocked at the notion that he's an a-hole because he's been polite to them in the past, while others immediately brand him with a red-hot "ass" iron for bashing some well-known players who I have heard plenty of shit talked on. 

Can't we, at the very least, come to a compromise and say that he's a POLITE and HELPFUL elitist ass?


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## Nights_Blood (Jun 12, 2010)

I think some people are too quick to take it in either direction. Some are shocked at the notion that he's an a-hole because he's been polite to them in the past, while others immediately brand him with a red-hot "ass" iron for bashing some well-known players who I have heard plenty of shit talked on. 

Can't we, at the very least, come to a compromise and say that he's a POLITE and HELPFUL elitist asshole?


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## drmosh (Jun 12, 2010)

someone who bashes Paul Gilberts song writing and releases an album as terrible as he did, can fuck right off


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## shredfreak (Jun 12, 2010)

Well he is right actually so i'm thinking all the fanboi's are just having a go at him in return 

That being said some of the players he mentioned haven't released a decent record in the past decade tbh. And i honestly couldn't care less about petrucci & the likes so meh.

At least he can back his shit up (and he's probably the only one i've seen so far actually)


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## ittoa666 (Jun 12, 2010)

drmosh said:


> someone who bashes Paul Gilberts song writing and releases an album as terrible as he did, can fuck right off



If it's not Holdsworth or a classical composer, it's shit to Marshall. That's a rule of nature.


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## Swippity Swappity (Jun 12, 2010)

In his defense, his video on legatto has helped me a ton over time. I really appreciate that video, but he does seem very full of himself.


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## Charles (Jun 12, 2010)

A later video he has up illustrates how when he descends he just uses hammer ons in reverse over. With the true spirit of experimentation in mind, I thought I'd give it a shot. Hell, if I got a nice, smooth tone, why not?

Maybe I just suck, but all that effort required to hammer each note, stop, hammer the next, and then keep going? I'll take the minuscule trade off in smoothness for efficiency of motion.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 12, 2010)

I didn't watch the whole video, but a lot of what he was saying about legato in the beginning was just plain wrong. "It's fast, but it's still staccato." Bullshit. Staccato is when the notes are clearly separated, and legato is when the notes are connected (and marcato is in between). If you're tapping, and you hold one note as you go to the next, it's legato. It's just the physics of the instrument. If anything, it's harder to play staccato when doing hammer-ons/pull-offs.


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## PnKnG (Jun 12, 2010)

I love how many people see it as an excuse to be an ass just because he is a good player. 
No level of skills is an excuse to be an ass, doesn't matter how good you are.


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## Daggorath (Jun 12, 2010)

Listening to clips of his album was tremendously satisfying to me. Because it was shit, and he's talked bollocks about his compositional skills for years.


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## Duke318 (Jun 12, 2010)

"...and its not good...at all..."

Seriously wanted to punch his head off after he said that!


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 12, 2010)

now i want to write a solo with nothing but pulloffs and call it a egato lick


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## AliceAxe (Jun 12, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> I didn't watch the whole video, but a lot of what he was saying about legato in the beginning was just plain wrong. "It's fast, but it's still staccato." Bullshit. Staccato is when the notes are clearly separated, and legato is when the notes are connected (and marcato is in between). If you're tapping, and you hold one note as you go to the next, it's legato. It's just the physics of the instrument. If anything, it's harder to play staccato when doing hammer-ons/pull-offs.


 

I agree with your post

I also disagree with what the guy was saying in the video on another point.
He said for it to be legato the notes have to 'overlap' - fine on a piano where all the notes you play are separate strings, you can do that, but thats not possible on a guitar if you are playing notes on the same string! (as he was doing) when you play one its going to cut off the sounding of the next by default naturally.

The guy didn't sound like an ass in the video, just gruff. At anyrate one should not harbor an air of conceit whilst one is failing miserably in what they are trying to demonstrate. 

Actually one should not harbor an air of conceit anyway. its spiritually smelly.


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## AliceAxe (Jun 12, 2010)

chucknorrishred said:


> now i want to write a solo with nothing but pulloffs and call it a egato lick


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 12, 2010)

AliceAxe said:


> I also disagree with what the guy was saying in the video on another point.
> He said for it to be legato the notes have to 'overlap' - fine on a piano where all the notes you play are separate strings, you can do that, but thats not possible on a guitar if you are playing notes on the same string! (as he was doing) when you play one its going to cut off the sounding of the next by default naturally.



Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken, he said that Chopin was the first to use legato phrasing. 
I'm not knocking him for not knowing his trivia, but you really should check your facts before opening your mouth in front of a camera.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 12, 2010)

shredfreak said:


> Well he is right actually so i'm thinking all the fanboi's are just having a go at him in return
> 
> That being said some of the players he mentioned haven't released a decent record in the past decade tbh. And i honestly couldn't care less about petrucci & the likes so meh.
> 
> *At least he can back his shit up (and he's probably the only one i've seen so far actually)*


 
Vinnie Vincent not only wants to debate that claim, but is still laughing his ass off.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 12, 2010)

Who cares?

The guy is an exceptional guitar player, and regardless of if he's a tool or not we should respect him for that as guitarists.

In fact, being a tool probably helps as it means you're less likely to have human interaction and more likely to spend time with your axe learning how to shred like a ninja.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 12, 2010)

Well, shredder's like Marshall Harrison kinda remind me of stuck up high level D&D players who think anyone that isn't as nerdy as them obv isn't a D&D master. And who gives a fuck if you can shred like mad if you can't compose a song worth a damn [ie, something with some emotion, as opposed to robotic technicality] or sell more than 5 records to Guy Mandude and Vito Bratta?

EDIT: Marshall needs more Frank Zappa in his life... Shut up and play yer guitar!


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 12, 2010)

The old 'emotion' argument again. 

This is SS.org and not the Gibson forum, right?


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 12, 2010)

robotic shred


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## JoshuaLogan (Jun 12, 2010)

what the fuck is wrong with pull-offs?


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jun 12, 2010)

Yep, I think he's an asshole. 

Yes I like SOME of his stuff.

(side note, he said his family are multi-millionaires from the oil industry which may explain some of his spoiled/elitist doucheness)


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## Esp Griffyn (Jun 12, 2010)

He is an impressive player, but his phrasing is bland cack and his music, oh man 

I lol'd for days when I heard how bad his songs were. They were like joke songs they were so bad. I'm still waiting for him to release the real album on us and say "Jokes on you guys!" but as the weeks go by it looks more and more like he is just a shit composer. Ok, not everyone can be great at it I suppose, I'm certainly not, but I don't sit on youtube soap boxing about how shit Petrucci's legato is, or how I got screwed of out playing in Planet X, or how I'm a great composer etc.

Even if "car trouble" or whatever hadn't prevented him from trying out for Planet X (a likely story ) that band requires a player with an interesting improvisational ability and phrasing that isn't incredibly bland. He would have been shown the door quickly I think, which is more likely than that bs excuse. He sounds way too bitter about T Mac, who imo is one of the best improvisationalists in the world on any instrument, not just guitar. "Yngwie junior", not only does Marshall sound like a spiteful child, it also seems he hasn't been keeping up Tony's fusion work


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 12, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> The old 'emotion' argument again.
> 
> This is SS.org and not the Gibson forum, right?


 
You can listen to heartless music if you want to, it's your choice.


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## Acatalepsy (Jun 12, 2010)

He's an ass- but he's also right on a lot of counts, the man knows his technique. That being said, his music is bland, so ultimately he fails. There's definitely a lot to learn from his vids though- I know I have!


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## Demiurge (Jun 12, 2010)

BlackMetalVenom said:


> But aren't you left with some sort of bitter feeling when Slash has made it big for himself, yet Holdsworth remains an enigma?



That does suck. But by the same token, I'm fine if this prick remains an unknown while Billie Joe from Green Day is pooping in a gold toilet as we speak.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 12, 2010)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You can listen to heartless music if you want to, it's your choice.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jun 12, 2010)

What a darsh.

PS. He's a lard arse too.


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## Daggorath (Jun 12, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> The old 'emotion' argument again.
> 
> This is SS.org and not the Gibson forum, right?



This, exactly.

The topic is about Marshall being a prick, not all shredders being pricks.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2010)

A personal favorite Marshall quote, from his comments in the 8 string video:



> Never bought any&#65279; Jason Becker CDs. I liked his solo in "A little ain't enough" by Roth. I NEVER listen to electric guitar players; the players with technique have little theoretical knowledge and the ones who know theory don't have good technique. Probably the best would be Ulf Wakenius or Holdsworth. Give me Liszt Liszt Liszt such "communicative electricity"!!!


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## Esp Griffyn (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> A personal favorite Marshall quote, from his comments in the 8 string video:



Yeah, technique and theory are everything, who gives a shit if it sounds good or not?!

What a hypocritical asshole


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## Daggorath (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> A personal favorite Marshall quote, from his comments in the 8 string video:



Knowledge of theory?

Just because it's written down that something sounds good, doesn't mean it does.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "I hate theory because it limits my creativitylol" kinda guy. It's clearly the way you apply the theory you know, and not the amount of it that you know.


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## Varcolac (Jun 12, 2010)

Daggorath said:


> Listening to clips of his album was tremendously satisfying to me. Because it was shit, and he's talked bollocks about his compositional skills for years.



Hahaha, this. Good guitarist, sure. Terrible musician. There was a video going around of him auditioning for Zappa Plays Zappa. Sat on a drum stool on the stage, sweeping up and down and left and right, without a care in the world for the actual, y'know, song. 

Here's the thread, and JohnIce being awesome as usual. The youtube video has been long ago removed.



JohnIce said:


> Doing that for a couple of seconds would be enough to say "ok, it sounds good, let's try it in a song and see how it sits in the mix and then we're done."
> 
> But no, this guy spends the better part of 7 minutes just chopsing, without tweaking anything or checking different sounds, or even any chords, he just wanks because he wants to. I'd be so pissed if any of my band members did that. This guy is clearly there only to prove himself, desperate to show people what his decades of bedroom wanking has resulted in. It's not hard to guess why this guy doesn't play out more often. It's a goddamn soundcheck, still he has to show everything he can do before leaving. The rest of the band are standing there just waiting for him to give it a rest but are too polite to ask, it's a bit awkward to watch.



tl;dr: great technician, lousy musician; ego the size of a container ship and the compositional ability of rotting offal. _Man_ those album sampler tracks were terrible.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2010)

Now wait... you're going to tell me the man that wrote THIS:

http://digital-nations.com/artists/marshallharison/There's_Just_one_Thing.mp3

...has no compositional ability?


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## Esp Griffyn (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> Now wait... you're going to tell me the man that wrote THIS:
> 
> http://digital-nations.com/artists/marshallharison/There's_Just_one_Thing.mp3
> 
> ...has no compositional ability?



"I was walking on the street, with the sidewalk melting in the sun" etc

horrible jagged arpeggios playing in the background, production so bad it's comedic etc, quazer synthy arps in the chorus etc

One of the undoubted masterpieces of our era!


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## liamh (Jun 12, 2010)

^At least he knows his theory


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## AliceAxe (Jun 12, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken, he said that Chopin was the first to use legato phrasing.
> I'm not knocking him for not knowing his trivia, but you really should check your facts before opening your mouth in front of a camera.


 

yeah thats right. well I am knocking him for that, its one thing to have personal opinions on other guitarsts that they suck or whatever, thats subjective, but if you are going to teach something using the trivia to teach it, yeah you kinda want to get your facts strait atleast. Atleast most of em  ah well nobodys perfect. some just think they are.


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## onefingersweep (Jun 12, 2010)

I have no idea if he's an asshole or not but he's completely right about the legato thing. Does it make Petrucci bad? No it doesn't, does it make Holdsworth better? No it doesn't. But what he says is true.

I couldn't care less for theoretical knowledge, I judge people after their music. Marshall who!? Jim Marshall?! Yes he makes great amplifiers!


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## Steve08 (Jun 12, 2010)

What is quite funny is that you actually DO need pull-offs on occasion in Holdsworthian legato-- try and do something like 3-5-6, and then hammer on the descent. Well with the ring finger, it just doesn't have enough strength to do that by itself, so what many players will do is pick the 6th fret and then pull off to the 5th. Allan Holdsworth actually does quite a bit of picking, just you can never tell because he's in perfect control of his pick attack


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## Xiphos68 (Jun 12, 2010)

Randy said:


> Now wait... you're going to tell me the man that wrote THIS:
> 
> http://digital-nations.com/artists/marshallharison/There's_Just_one_Thing.mp3
> 
> ...has no compositional ability?


I like the music. It's really cool, don't care for the singing. But this guy can write maybe not everything we like. But it's pretty cool. Thanks Randy.


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## Andrewsonfire (Jun 12, 2010)

he talks about pull offs the same way the other guitar player from daath (Not emil) talks about left hand tapping... I love marshall as a guitar player and same with eyal levi. But they can both go fuck their selves if they want to close the mind of a beginner guitarist by saying some kind of technique isn't right just because they dislike it.


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## Steve08 (Jun 12, 2010)

Andrewsonfire said:


> he talks about pull offs the same way the other guitar player from daath (Not emil) talks about left hand tapping... I love marshall as a guitar player and same with eyal levi. But they can both go fuck their selves if they want to close the mind of a beginner guitarist by saying some kind of technique isn't right just because they dislike it.


Where'd you hear this from Eyal? Just wondering...


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## Andrewsonfire (Jun 12, 2010)

Steve08 said:


> Where'd you hear this from Eyal? Just wondering...



He does a blog for MetalSucks its in a couple of his blogs..


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## cyril v (Jun 12, 2010)

The thing about the three guys you dudes are ripping on is that all three of them have tremendous technique. Whether or not you like what they're playing is a completely different point... they have amazing technique obviously because of their attitude and anal obsession/nitpicking over it. 

If you guys don't want listen to what they have to say, and go, "they can go fuck themselves"... well then, thats where it gets confusing. Because you're the ones turning to them for advice on technique because they excel at it, did it occur to you that they're offering solid advice?

It just seems to me that when they reference other players technique to demonstrate examples... then people get a lil' butt hurt. Marshall in particular has obviously practiced/studied all of the technique he likes, but furthermore, he also has a firm grasp on the technique he doesn't like and sure he's a little too honest/egotistical/opinionated about it but I honestly think for the most part it's solid advice if you don't take it to heart that he doesn't like your favorite guitar player as much as you do. If you're a beginner, obviously a helping hand is good to have, but honestly think if I had started practicing technique like they suggest and having a firmer grasp on what they consider "essential", I'd certainly be a cleaner player for the effort.

Secondly.. people are calling this guy an asshole for ripping on other players technique, but this is kind of the pot calling the kettle black (since this thread exists) and either way this isn't the first time I've heard someone criticize a player or genre's so I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Thats all I'll say on the matter, carry on.


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## XxXPete (Jun 12, 2010)

Varcolac said:


> Hahaha, this. Good guitarist, sure. Terrible musician. There was a video going around of him auditioning for Zappa Plays Zappa. Sat on a drum stool on the stage, sweeping up and down and left and right, without a care in the world for the actual, y'know, song.
> 
> Here's the thread, and JohnIce being awesome as usual. The youtube video has been long ago removed.
> 
> ...


 FYI he wasnt EVEN auditioing..All that was ..was that DWEEZIL dug Marshalls youtube vids and invited him to sit-in on the sound-check..thats it


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 12, 2010)

cyril v said:


> The thing about the three guys you dudes are ripping on is that all three of them have tremendous technique. Whether or not you like what they're playing is a completely different point... they have amazing technique obviously because of their attitude and anal obsession/nitpicking over it.
> 
> If you guys don't want listen to what they have to say, and go, "they can go fuck themselves"... well then, thats where it gets confusing. Because you're the ones turning to them for advice on technique because they excel at it, did it occur to you that they're offering solid advice?


 
So can I be as big a dick as I want on this forum as long as I offer solid advice? And I wont get neg rep or banned? Hell yes! 

Btw, giving advice isn't a podium to be a shit-talker. Santiago Dobles gives wonderful sweep picking advice and isn't a fucking dick the entire time.


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## cyril v (Jun 12, 2010)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> So can I be as big a dick as I want on this forum as long as I offer solid advice? And I wont get neg rep or banned? Hell yes!
> 
> Btw, giving advice isn't a podium to be a shit-talker. Santiago Dobles gives wonderful sweep picking advice and isn't a fucking dick the entire time.



Dude, I kinda think you're blowing things out of proportion, but I really don't think anyone here would be banned for saying what they think about someones vibrato or legato technique. Neg repped? Who cares about rep... What is the rep going to say, "You're correct, but way to be a dick for pointing it out!". 

I wouldn't necessarily call it "shit-talking"... extremely honest and blunt criticism with no tact would be a more suiting way to put it IMO.

Maybe I missed a lot of his rants... but the Petrucci thing out of context sounds ass-holish, in context he's correct and in a lesson trying to fully explain the technique, the distinction absolutely needed to be made, maybe it would've been nice to not mention names but it certainly helped drive the point home by giving a reference to a sound people would be familiar with. I know that helped me pick up on what he was getting at because that is the legato that I use for the most part... it has more of a "rock"-feel to it, whereas Holdsworth has the type of legato that I can't even imitate with compressor, overdrive etc etc etc. 

The paul gilbert vibrato thing, out of context, is assholish and in context it is still ass-holish, but it's a personal preference thing IMO. Tons of players get shit for their vibrato; there was a video posted here where a guy posted a video simply to show his new guitar (NGD) and got a fuckload of comments telling him how bad his technique was and what he was doing wrong etc etc etc. The people posting the comments weren't assholes, just trying to help someone out by being brutally honest. 

Once more I don't see what all the fuss is about and I'll say again, this very thread has every bit as much poise as the person in question. 



Spaced Out Ace said:


> EDIT: Marshall needs more Frank Zappa in his life... Shut up and play yer guitar!



I can agree with this... 


Acatalepsy said:


> He's an ass- but he's also right on a lot of counts, the man knows his technique. That being said, his music is bland, so ultimately he fails. There's definitely a lot to learn from his vids though- I know I have!





I could listen the guy noodle/shred/wax poetic about technique all day, but the music was a bit bland from what I heard outside of the solo's.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jun 13, 2010)

I don't know about him as a person, but I agree that hammers and pull offs aren't true legato; hammers all over is the way to go. THAT SAID, there's nothing wrong with pull offs. In fact, in many situations it probably works better than the full fluidity of hammer-ons, especially on guitar. 

Different techniques for different instruments...


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## shredfreak (Jun 14, 2010)

Do agree with him on most of his points & it's pretty interesting what he has to show actually.

His record is kinda growing on me though, bit bad about the production. The singer doesn't really fit in too well though imo, always get the feeling he's trying to copy lane staley but fail at it.


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## splinter8451 (Jun 14, 2010)

Watch this video. When you see it, and hear it, you'll shit bricks.  

Start at 5:30 if you don't feel like seeing the other guitars.


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2010)

Oh, sweet... an Ah-gee-lay.


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## JohnIce (Jun 14, 2010)

XxXPete said:


> FYI he wasnt EVEN auditioing..All that was ..was that DWEEZIL dug Marshalls youtube vids and invited him to sit-in on the sound-check..thats it


 
Sure, he wasn't auditioning... but he did take up 7 minutes of soundcheck, with the entire band on stage, just noodling on his guitar while the others stood there waiting. Without testing any songs, settings etc. or even saying anything, he was just shredding up and down the neck for 7 minutes by himself.

This to me seems like a good reason why people wouldn't want him in a band. The fact that he is also one of the most horrible songwriters/arrangers I've ever heard doesn't make it better. I'm all for technical skill and I'm a theory nerd myself, but none of that matters if you can't use it to make art... Petrucci, Gilbert, Becker etc. got popular because people liked their songs, and not Marshall's.


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## chucknorrishred (Jun 14, 2010)

some pretty thin bodies on some of those toys, (getting more ideas for a custom)


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## GeoMantic (Jun 14, 2010)

LOL

I find it hard to believe someone could mispronounce Agile so badly.


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## Seedawakener (Jun 14, 2010)

I kinda agree with him about the legato thing since he is partly right.

Legato is not a technique, it IS a way of phrasing. I seriously believe the guitar-legato-technique got it's name from sounding more like legato than the picked staccato sound. A conductor telling the violinists in an orchestra to play more legato won't make them tap their violins.

So in this sense, he is spot on. Just my 2 cents.


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## YellowMustard (Jun 14, 2010)

Thats one ugly ass guitar.

Oh and nice Ibanez AANJ rip off on that strat Mr Ed Roman, jerk off.


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## cyril v (Jun 14, 2010)

splinter8451 said:


> Watch this video. When you see it, and hear it, you'll shit bricks.
> 
> Start at 5:30 if you don't feel like seeing the other guitars.





Josh Geohagan said:


> LOL
> 
> I find it hard to believe someone could mispronounce Agile so badly.



...it's a reference to the movie, "A Christmas Story". Come on guys, everyone should've heard someone reference this about a million times a day during december/january.



Skip to the :55 second mark to for that part.


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## XxXPete (Jun 14, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> Sure, he wasn't auditioning... but he did take up 7 minutes of soundcheck, with the entire band on stage, just noodling on his guitar while the others stood there waiting. Without testing any songs, settings etc. or even saying anything, he was just shredding up and down the neck for 7 minutes by himself.
> 
> This to me seems like a good reason why people wouldn't want him in a band. The fact that he is also one of the most horrible songwriters/arrangers I've ever heard doesn't make it better. I'm all for technical skill and I'm a theory nerd myself, but none of that matters if you can't use it to make art... Petrucci, Gilbert, Becker etc. got popular because people liked their songs, and not Marshall's.


 +1 DUDE For sure!


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## XxXPete (Jun 19, 2010)




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## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 19, 2010)

He is just a really weird guy.


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## BlackMetalVenom (Jun 19, 2010)

Hrm, I saw that video just now.
Seems as if he was reading this thread and tried making his phrasing a bit more interesting. 
Certainly not like most of his other videos he's had on there before.


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## JohnIce (Jun 19, 2010)

BlackMetalVenom said:


> Hrm, I saw that video just now.
> Seems as if he was reading this thread and tried making his phrasing a bit more interesting.
> Certainly not like most of his other videos he's had on there before.


 
His phrasing was great the first few bars I thought, then all I could think of during the rest of the video was how sketchy it was... I'm not expecting anyone to be flawless but I thought that was pretty tame, and way too long, he ran out of ideas pretty quickly and filled out the rest with pre-rehearsed licks or finding his way around harmonies... I thought everything was pretty cool BUT the phrasing


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## Joel (Jun 19, 2010)

He tried to be more melodic, but as soon as he started playing his pre-rehearsed licks all that fell apart. His technique is great, but I just can't get into his sound.
This is especially true when he starts playing very fast, he seems to lose all melody and just plays anything that impresses people. ie. the hybrid picked string skipping etc.


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## ShadyDavey (Jun 19, 2010)

I keep listening to him and every time I do I hear Elvis shredding from beyond the grave.....

Still a remarkable player and I'm sure he'll suprise everyone yet.


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## Randy (Jun 19, 2010)

I won't dogpile the guy but watching this video along with the old video of him jamming with Brett Garsed, I think his right to accuse people of "wide vibrato" needs to be revoked.


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## Steve08 (Jun 19, 2010)

That's a freaking nice Vigier...


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## SnowfaLL (Jun 19, 2010)

Cant say ive ever heard of the guy, but anyone who calls TMac a "yngwie Jr" obviously has no ear for music, and therefor should NOT be making such retarded claims about musical techniques/styles.

TMac sounds NOTHING like yngwie at all.. wtf.. Maybe its just because I am a huge TMac fan and I've actually listened to all his albums, not just 1 song like this jackass probably has, but their playing has no similarities other than both being on a guitar. Tmac's vibrato and legato fluidity is completely different, his note choices are very different too, so I have no idea where this comparison is coming from.

Anyways, not like I could give a rats ass about this idiot, someone who is so ignorant to think that is not worth anyones time.


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## XxXPete (Jun 19, 2010)

ShadyDavey said:


> I keep listening to him and every time I do I hear Elvis shredding from beyond the grave.....
> 
> Still a remarkable player and I'm sure he'll suprise everyone yet.


+1


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## Joeywilson (Jun 19, 2010)

I actually really love his phrasing, i'm not going to lie. 

I have a lot of respect for him even though he does seem like hes kind of full of himeself.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 19, 2010)

Every time I see this thread title, I laugh my ass off for some reason. It's just so......perfect.


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## Harry (Jun 19, 2010)

Randy said:


> I won't dogpile the guy but watching this video along with the old video of him jamming with Brett Garsed, I think his right to accuse people of "wide vibrato" needs to be revoked.



I can't even understand why one would not like wide vibrato personally
If it's done in tune, done at the right moments during and used expressively, how could it possibly sound bad? Wide vibrato always sounded great to me, much better than hearing the ton of bedroom shredders with their terrible, extremely narrow, shaky and out of tune vibrato


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jun 20, 2010)

Just as some people like looking at car crashes when they drive by em, some people like listening to Marshall Harrison


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## Prydogga (Jun 20, 2010)

Forget his mispronunciation of Agile. 

He has an ED ROMAN.


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## kung_fu (Jun 20, 2010)

Harry said:


> I can't even understand why one would not like wide vibrato personally
> If it's done in tune, done at the right moments during and used expressively, how could it possibly sound bad? Wide vibrato always sounded great to me, much better than hearing the ton of bedroom shredders with their terrible, extremely narrow, shaky and out of tune vibrato



Well, it all comes down to taste i guess. I prefer a wider vibrato on bent notes, or with the vibrato bar so your vibrato pivots around the target note, and a more subtle vibrato when the note isn't bent.


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## XxXPete (Jun 20, 2010)

I wonder what all the "neophytes" feel about the new vid??


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## Splatter (Aug 15, 2010)

I find this thread kinda amusing. How many here who are weighing in on Marshall's character have ever met or spoken to him? The ones that have seem to be unanimous in saying that he's not 'an asshole'. Do people that have never spoken to or met someone have better insight into someone's character than those who have?
Why do people assume that Marshall's playing at the Zappa soundcheck was not what the band was requesting? He was doing what they freaking asked him to do, and he filmed it. 
If nothing else, this thread is indicative how people can take anything and spin it to suit their own biases.


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## Trespass (Aug 15, 2010)

Harry said:


> I can't even understand why one would not like wide vibrato personally
> If it's done in tune, done at the right moments during and used expressively, how could it possibly sound bad? Wide vibrato always sounded great to me, much better than hearing the ton of bedroom shredders with their terrible, extremely narrow, shaky and out of tune vibrato



In Classical music, an overly wide vibrato is considered excessively sappy and in poor taste. My violin teacher refers to it as a "Russian soprano" vibrato 

This is especially the case in any non-Romantic era or non-sappy film score.


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## splinter8451 (Aug 15, 2010)

Splatter said:


> I find this thread kinda amusing. How many here who are weighing in on Marshall's character have ever met or spoken to him? The ones that have seem to be unanimous in saying that he's not 'an asshole'. Do people that have never spoken to or met someone have better insight into someone's character than those who have?
> Why do people assume that Marshall's playing at the Zappa soundcheck was not what the band was requesting? He was doing what they freaking asked him to do, and he filmed it.
> If nothing else, this thread is indicative how people can take anything and spin it to suit their own biases.



Welcome to the World Wide Web.


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## drmosh (Aug 15, 2010)

XxXPete said:


>




damn he put on some weight


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