# Best pickups for Black limba (korina)



## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

Hello everyone. I want to change the pickups on my 8-string Kiesel from Black limba (korina) , I want to achieve a clean balanced sound without resonances in the lower middle. Ideally, you want to sound like vildhjarta (ash + lundgren m7, 8) or alder with bkp juggernauts or ragnarok, in general progressive, dense and readable. I listened to different combinations of limba and lundgren m7, bkp ragnarock, juggernaut, still a lot of mids and it doesn’t sound so clean. Maybe someone had an experiment with this tree and someone found a solution?


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## nickgray (Feb 10, 2022)

You're massively overthinking it.



Artem said:


> want to sound like vildhjarta



Learn music production. That's how you'll sound like Vildhjarta or whatever else you want to sound like. The mix itself is the most important part. Wood (which doesn't affect anything) and pickups are inconsequential compared to that.


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

nickgray said:


> You're massively overthinking it.
> 
> 
> 
> Learn music production. That's how you'll sound like Vildhjarta or whatever else you want to sound like. The mix itself is the most important part. Wood (which doesn't affect anything) and pickups are inconsequential compared to that.


Friend, I have 7 guitars and I have a lot of experience in mixing music. I also have two 8-string guitars, one of which is ibanez m80m which is made of ash and has a lundgren m8 pickup on it, and with this guitar I can get vildhjarta sound without any problems. But my black limba kiesel sounds completely different and the low-mid resonance is not removed in the mix. I'm looking for pickups that will take that away. But it is also desirable that they sound dense and readable, since it is impossible to completely remove the lower middle. 
P, S and of course the wood affects the sound and I don't want to argue about it, the topic is of a completely different nature.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 10, 2022)

Wood species does not impact amplified tone as much as people like to believe. Especially when you add distorsion. And in a full mix. I have seen the basswood/maple combo have way more low end than a full hog guitar, same pickups, same strings, same amp. Too many variations between one plank of wood to another so it really does not mean squat to me.

As for your question: why don't you just start putting a Lundgren in your Kiesel if you want it to sound close to your M80M? I mean, you've listened to sound clips of that apparently but who made those sounds clips? Did they use an amp similar to yours? What about the cab? Do they use a similar pick? Do they pick like you? How did they set the EQ?


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## Pat (Feb 10, 2022)

What does progressive, dense and readable even mean?


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> Wood species does not impact amplified tone as much as people like to believe. Especially when you add distorsion. And in a full mix. I have seen the basswood/maple combo have way more low end than a full hog guitar, same pickups, same strings, same amp. Too many variations between one plank of wood to another so it really does not mean squat to me.
> 
> As for your question: why don't you just start putting a Lundgren in your Kiesel if you want it to sound close to your M80M? I mean, you've listened to sound clips of that apparently but who made those sounds clips? Did they use an amp similar to yours? What about the cab? Do they use a similar pick? Do they pick like you? How did they set the EQ?


I listened to di guitars from black limba and lundgren m7 and I still heard resonance in the lower mids, yes there were enough highs, but due to the large number of mids, it does not sound at all as clean and bright as on ash and I think that the cut of the lower mids won't help in this case, it must be lowered initially in the pickup. I'm leaning towards ordering a custom pickup for this guitar.


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

Pat said:


> What does progressive, dense and readable even mean?


Sound like periphery or vildhjarta


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## Robslalaina (Feb 10, 2022)

Artem said:


> I listened to di guitars from black limba and lundgren m7 and I still heard resonance in the lower mids, yes there were enough highs, but due to the large number of mids, it does not sound at all as clean and bright as on ash and I think that the cut of the lower mids won't help in this case, it must be lowered initially in the pickup. I'm leaning towards ordering a custom pickup for this guitar.


Since there's no real consistency between one plank of wood and another I still recommend trying out a M7 in _your_ guitar. 

Also, in order to eliminate as many variables as possible, do you know what string type and gauge was used to record those DIs? What was the value of the pots (real value especially since a 500k pot isn't always 500k)? Did the guitar have a tone pot? Also, what about pickup height? Unless you know all of these parameters to be the exact same as your guitar, I wouldn't discount trying the M7 in your Kiesel.


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> Since there's no real consistency between one plank of wood and another I still recommend trying out a M7 in _your_ guitar.
> 
> Also, in order to eliminate as many variables as possible, do you know what string type and gauge was used to record those DIs? What was the value of the pots (real value especially since a 500k pot isn't always 500k)? Did the guitar have a tone pot? Also, what about pickup height? Unless you know all of these parameters to be the exact same as your guitar, I wouldn't discount trying the M7 in your Kiesel.


I agree there is logic in this, but anyway, all the above listed components will not affect the resonance in the lower middle, for the most part, all this only affects the brightness and high frequencies


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## Robslalaina (Feb 10, 2022)

Artem said:


> I agree there is logic in this, but anyway, all the above listed components will not affect the resonance in the lower middle, for the most part, all this only affects the brightness and high frequencies


Thick strings definitely add low-mid bloat though. Pickup height can also muddy up your tone in those frequencies. Higher value pots or using no tone pot adds to the perception of greater overall clarity. But none of these things really matter that much when you process your signal like all these djent bands do. I don't know what amp you use but if you were to plug your M80M straight into an unmodded Single Rec chances are you'd be disappointed by the lack of tightness in the low, low-mid area.


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> Thick strings definitely add low-mid bloat though. Pickup height can also muddy up your tone in those frequencies. Higher value pots or using no tone pot adds to the perception of greater overall clarity. But none of these things really matter that much when you process your signal like all these djent bands do. I don't know what amp you use but if you were to plug your M80M straight into an unmodded Single Rec chances are you'd be disappointed by the lack of tightness in the low, low-mid area.


I have enough studio experience to hear nuances like thick strings or high caps etc. Plus I mentioned earlier that on my m 80m recording I can get the sound I want. The problem is in the tree and in the combination of pickups and wood. This is approximately the case when pickups with increased low frequencies are placed on a low sound tree, as a result we get enhanced resonances from these areas.


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## migstopheles (Feb 10, 2022)

sounds like you have more experience than the people you're asking for advice


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

migstopheles said:


> sounds like you have more experience than the people you're asking for advice


I thought that perhaps there are people here who have encountered a similar issue and solved the problem, or at least can show the sound of this tree with some pickups options that are interesting to me


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## CanserDYI (Feb 10, 2022)

Oh boy I'm gonna see myself out of this thread.

You ain't solving literally any tone problem you're having by focusing on the wood.


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## mastapimp (Feb 10, 2022)

Please consult Vejichan. Dude has asked this question about 200 times on this forum before. I'm sure he knows exactly what you need by now.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 10, 2022)

7 whole guitars


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## MaxAidingAres (Feb 10, 2022)

Dude easy, the best pickups for black limba are well depends on the style you want but usually are the pickups you like. Body wood isnt going to matter. If you like a jb slap it in there if you like emgs slap em in there. Dont overthink the effect a species of wood might have. Find a pickup set you like or want to try and go for it. You wont be disappointed!


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## ian540s (Feb 10, 2022)

Go watch that video on youtube of that guy matching pickups and pickup height between a bunch of shit, including no guitar body, and it sounds the same. 
Pickups, pots, wiring, and pickup height to strings matter.


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## bostjan (Feb 10, 2022)

What's the scale length on your Kiesel?

Shorter scale lengths sound less bright and less tight/focused. If the Lundgren sounds great in your M80M but bad in your other guitars, that might be a part of it. You could try to use lighter strings and tune up your other guitar, then record the parts and retune them in your DAW, but that might sound like a digital mess of glitch by the time you're done. The best option would be to just use the guitar that you like better to get the sound you like better.


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

MaxAidingAres said:


> Dude easy, the best pickups for black limba are well depends on the style you want but usually are the pickups you like. Body wood isnt going to matter. If you like a jb slap it in there if you like emgs slap em in there. Dont overthink the effect a species of wood might have. Find a pickup set you like or want to try and go for it. You wont be disappointed!


Not everything is so simple friend, I have an 8-string multiscale and there are beveled pickups in the form of passives


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> What's the scale length on your Kiesel?
> 
> Shorter scale lengths sound less bright and less tight/focused. If the Lundgren sounds great in your M80M but bad in your other guitars, that might be a part of it. You could try to use lighter strings and tune up your other guitar, then record the parts and retune them in your DAW, but that might sound like a digital mess of glitch by the time you're done. The best option would be to just use the guitar that you like better to get the sound you like better.


26-27.5 I think. Yes you are right I use other guitars for recording but I also want to solve this issue with the choice of pickups for my own peace of mind, I don't want this guitar lying idle, I really like it


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## Artem (Feb 10, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Please consult Vejichan. Dude has asked this question about 200 times on this forum before. I'm sure he knows exactly what you need by now.


Oh, I think I enjoyed talking with him on this topic, but I'm new here and don't quite understand how to find him and write to him


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## spudmunkey (Feb 10, 2022)

To be clear...

Scale length
M80M: 29.4"
Kiesel: 27" or 26-27.5" for multiscale

Bridge:
M80M: this chonker:


Kiesel Multiscale: Hipshot individual bridges:


(unless it's headless):


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## Emperoff (Feb 10, 2022)

I blame the tree.


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## Tree (Feb 10, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I blame the tree.


I had nothing to do with these pickups


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## Emperoff (Feb 10, 2022)

Tree said:


> I had nothing to do with these pickups



You guys are on a roll


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## High Plains Drifter (Feb 10, 2022)

Artem said:


> Oh, I think I enjoyed talking with him on this topic, but I'm new here and don't quite understand how to find him and write to him


 Unless you are a masochist you would not have enjoyed talking with him on this topic.


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## LunatiqueRob (Feb 10, 2022)




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## Adieu (Feb 10, 2022)

Pat said:


> What does progressive, dense and readable even mean?



Bernie Henchmen?


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## Emperoff (Feb 10, 2022)

LunatiqueRob said:


>




Oh no, not Glenn Fricker again...  Can we just agree on baning his videos from the site? Those "mythbusting" videos he does are bloody stupid (and kinda embarrasing, tbh).


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 11, 2022)

Pickups can only do so much. What you are looking to solve can be achieved with pre-EQ cuts, moving mics, multipressor and post-EQ but it comes down to you liking the clarity your 29.4” guitar has over your 26-27.5”.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 11, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Pickups can only do so much. What you are looking to solve can be achieved with pre-EQ cuts, moving mics, multipressor and post-EQ but it comes down to you liking the clarity your 29.4” guitar has over your 26-27.5”.


"What is this multipressor you are talking about and how do you achieve it?" -Youknowwho


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Pickups can only do so much. What you are looking to solve can be achieved with pre-EQ cuts, moving mics, multipressor and post-EQ but it comes down to you liking the clarity your 29.4” guitar has over your 26-27.5”.


No, I clearly understand what the problem is and what I need, I have a lot of guitars and they have different scales, different woods and different pickups, I want to choose the right pickups for this wood


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> No, I clearly understand what the problem is and what I need, I have a lot of guitars and they have different scales, different woods and different pickups, I want to choose the right pickups for this wood




I think you messaged me on IG asking for Lundgren clips. One of the downsides of slanted pickups is the cost so getting anything else will be a gamble for fixing your problem since its very specific. Lundgren's are tight, bright and low mid heavy. They also cost a lot so getting your current pickups re-wired would be a better option first. Either way you've looked up clips and done your research so all that's left is to experiment with different pickups until you find what you're looking for.


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I think you messaged me on IG asking for Lundgren clips. One of the downsides of slanted pickups is the cost so getting anything else will be a gamble for fixing your problem since its very specific. Lundgren's are tight, bright and low mid heavy. They also cost a lot so getting your current pickups re-wired would be a better option first. Either way you've looked up clips and done your research so all that's left is to experiment with different pickups until you find what you're looking for.


Haha, nice meeting, yes it was me, but I also found lundgren and limba records, it's not the high cost, but the sound, they don't sound as clear as in combination with ash and I still hear the resonance in the bottom middle , which only gets stronger when you put on thicker strings and lower the tuning. so I decided to continue searching, by the way, if possible, send me the source of the track with this guitar


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I think you messaged me on IG asking for Lundgren clips. One of the downsides of slanted pickups is the cost so getting anything else will be a gamble for fixing your problem since its very specific. Lundgren's are tight, bright and low mid heavy. They also cost a lot so getting your current pickups re-wired would be a better option first. Either way you've looked up clips and done your research so all that's left is to experiment with different pickups until you find what you're looking for.


By the way, on your advice, I contacted lungren and he said that this is a common problem and he advises putting the neck pickup in the bridge, since it has more high frequencies and less low frequencies, I thought maybe I will find those who did this here


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## CanserDYI (Feb 11, 2022)

Bruh multiple people have explained it's not the limba Or ash, its the bloody bridges and scale length affecting the tone. It has NOTHING to do with the wood.

Just throw a set of pups you like in it and EQ until you're happy. You're going down like the most POINTLESS rabbit hole in the list of guitar rabbit holes you can adventure into.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, NOT ONE HUMAN ON PLANET EARTH is listening to any tone on any record and cursing them "no! Not ash and lundgrens! Why would he use ASH with LUNDGRENS?!". Well, maybe one, and that's you.


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Bruh multiple people have explained it's not the limba Or ash, its the bloody bridges and scale length affecting the tone. It has NOTHING to do with the wood.
> 
> Just throw a set of pups you like in it and EQ until you're happy. You're going down like the most POINTLESS rabbit hole in the list of guitar rabbit holes you can adventure into.
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again, NOT ONE HUMAN ON PLANET EARTH is listening to any tone on any record and cursing them "no! Not ash and lundgrens! Why would he use ASH with LUNDGRENS?!". Well, maybe one, and that's you.


I told, my friend, I didn't come here to argue about woody sound, it's a waste of time. Ask any experienced guitar builder, pickup builder or sound engineer who works with heavy music. They will unanimously answer you that each wood has its own frequencies and affects the sound. Of course, unless you play Chinese guitar with emg in a cheap Chinese amp combo, everything will sound the same to you. Take a good studio acoustic and record 5 guitars from different woods with the same passive pickups and then look at the frequency analyzer, the answer is so simple, friend and let's close the topic of wood.


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Bruh multiple people have explained it's not the limba Or ash, its the bloody bridges and scale length affecting the tone. It has NOTHING to do with the wood.
> 
> Just throw a set of pups you like in it and EQ until you're happy. You're going down like the most POINTLESS rabbit hole in the list of guitar rabbit holes you can adventure into.
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again, NOT ONE HUMAN ON PLANET EARTH is listening to any tone on any record and cursing them "no! Not ash and lundgrens! Why would he use ASH with LUNDGRENS?!". Well, maybe one, and that's you.


Understand that when you work for many years in the studio, this question becomes simple and understandable. There are guitars made of basswood or plastic and they will never sound in the mix as well as alder or ash guitars you just won't get the frequencies you need for a tight readable mix, yes there are options to get a good sound out of them, but it's heavy and wrong path. A pickup is a microphone that can be correctly matched to the timbre of your voice, in our case it is a tree. Now I'm busy with this. I can get a good sound out of what I have, but I'm wasting some useful frequencies by cutting out unnecessary wood resonances, which makes my mix lose density. If the pickup is not chosen correctly, it will only increase the resonances and other frequencies will suffer due to this, now this is exactly what I have, I just want to find a grammatical solution to the issue


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## MrWulf (Feb 11, 2022)

Feels like this is a troll thread. But im gonna point out a few things.

1. The band you mentioned want to emulate had their producer/guitarist Buster Odeholm manipulate the shit out of the guitar DI and a lot of processing in order to get those sounds with his guitar. It isnt just plug and play into the amp.

2. His own guitar is a custom 27.5 inch scale guitar that was made with heavy downtuning in mind. 

The pickup and the tonewood is really the least of your issue when you neither have the scale length, or the studio expertise in mind.


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

MrWulf said:


> Feels like this is a troll thread. But im gonna point out a few things.
> 
> 1. The band you mentioned want to emulate had their producer/guitarist Buster Odeholm manipulate the shit out of the guitar DI and a lot of processing in order to get those sounds with his guitar. It isnt just plug and play into the amp.
> 
> ...


I am well aware of his equipment, the point is not to get exactly the same sound, I gave an example not for this and I think you did not carefully read the correspondence, I mentioned my equipment and studio experience. I think the topic of the conversation is moving in a completely different direction now.


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## Tree (Feb 11, 2022)

Honestly your best bet is to just keep experimenting. Even if people had the same guitar as you and swapped pickups out to exactly what you were curious to try they would still likely get different results. 

Maybe person A that’s used a certain pair of pickups likes the low mid hump that you’re describing. So for them to suggest those pickups to you would be a waste of time and money on your end.

It sounds like you’re wanting something to brighten up your guitar, so just research some other bright pickups aside from the Lundgrens unless swapping the neck into the bridge position solves it for you. Maybe getting some Dactivators out onto the slanted base plate will do the trick.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 11, 2022)

The problem we're seeing @Artem is that you don't like a specific frequency in a specific guitar, and are attributing it to wood for some reason, instead of the thousands of other factors that go into guitar tone. 

It sounds like you don't have a pickup/wood problem at all, you just need an EQ....


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## Pat (Feb 11, 2022)

Get a 10 band EQ pedal instead


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## IwantTacos (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> Understand that when you work for many years in the studio, this question becomes simple and understandable. There are guitars made of basswood or plastic and they will never sound in the mix as well as alder or ash guitars you just won't get the frequencies you need for a tight readable mix, yes there are options to get a good sound out of them, but it's heavy and wrong path. A pickup is a microphone that can be correctly matched to the timbre of your voice, in our case it is a tree. Now I'm busy with this. I can get a good sound out of what I have, but I'm wasting some useful frequencies by cutting out unnecessary wood resonances, which makes my mix lose density. If the pickup is not chosen correctly, it will only increase the resonances and other frequencies will suffer due to this, now this is exactly what I have, I just want to find a grammatical solution to the issue



those are certainly words.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> Of course, unless you play Chinese guitar with emg in a cheap Chinese amp combo, everything will sound the same to you.


This is actually funny. I had a basswood + thru-body maple-neck Indonesian Kelly that had way more low end than a friend's all hog, MIC Epi Les Paul. Both had the same EMG pickups. Both had the same strings. Both tuned to D. Both guitars plugged into an EVH OD, into a Blackstar HT5R. According to the general consensus that's been passed on for decades the Kelly should have sounded bright af but it was actually the opposite. In a nutshell the LP sounded like AC/DC while the Jackson sounded like Metallica - ridiculous difference. I definitely stopped caring that day.

Also I'll leave this here:


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

Tree said:


> Honestly your best bet is to just keep experimenting. Even if people had the same guitar as you and swapped pickups out to exactly what you were curious to try they would still likely get different results.
> 
> Maybe person A that’s used a certain pair of pickups likes the low mid hump that you’re describing. So for them to suggest those pickups to you would be a waste of time and money on your end.
> 
> It sounds like you’re wanting something to brighten up your guitar, so just research some other bright pickups aside from the Lundgrens unless swapping the neck into the bridge position solves it for you. Maybe getting some Dactivators out onto the slanted base plate will do the trick.


I can always ask for a DI guitar signal if people have some interesting compositions and I can evaluate it myself in the studio. I thought at the expense of Dactivators, but I didn’t see an inclined version of the dimarzio, and the pickup manufacturers say that fot you it’s not possible to make the pickup itself inclined because there are other special magnets


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> This is actually funny. I had a basswood + thru-body maple-neck Indonesian Kelly that had way more low end than a friend's all hog, MIC Epi Les Paul. Both had the same EMG pickups. Both had the same strings. Both tuned to D. Both guitars plugged into an EVH OD, into a Blackstar HT5R. According to the general consensus that's been passed on for decades the Kelly should have sounded bright af but it was actually the opposite. In a nutshell the LP sounded like AC/DC while the Jackson sounded like Metallica - ridiculous difference. I definitely stopped caring that day.
> 
> Also I'll leave this here:



Yes, this is often found in different price categories of guitars. If, for example, a cheap guitar is made of ash or mahogany, it does not mean that it will also sound like a guitar from an expensive series of the same company, even if you put the same pickups there. Many factors from the selection of wood and its sawing and drying affect this, but in general terms the frequencies will be similar I think


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> The problem we're seeing @Artem is that you don't like a specific frequency in a specific guitar, and are attributing it to wood for some reason, instead of the thousands of other factors that go into guitar tone.
> 
> It sounds like you don't have a pickup/wood problem at all, you just need an EQ....


I did not know that work in the studio is possible without an equalizer. I think I should definitely get acquainted with this miracle of technology


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## CanserDYI (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> Yes, this is often found in different price categories of guitars. If, for example, a cheap guitar is made of ash or mahogany, it does not mean that it will also sound like a guitar from an expensive series of the same company, even if you put the same pickups there. Many factors from the selection of wood and its sawing and drying affect this, but in general terms the frequencies will be similar I think


Dude, with all due respect, shut up. This is nonsense. I always get into these threads, and wish I didnt, but its this type of snobbery that's going to keep people making posts on here thinking that just because a Gibson is a Gibson, for some reason their mahogany sounds better than Epiphone's cheap terrible mahogany right?

Please, if you are so inclined in the music engineering field, just use an EQ and call it a day, like most able brained people in the field do.


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## nickgray (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> Understand that when you work for many years in the studio, this question becomes simple and understandable



Can you provide some examples of your studio work?


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## ArtDecade (Feb 11, 2022)

I use Dixon Ticonderoga 2.5 pencils. My current sharpener gives an edge that I don't care for. I prefer the pencil to have a soft rub after 5-6 lines of writing, but I feel the point breaks down too quickly. If you want to sound like Periphery, stop practicing.


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## Thesius (Feb 11, 2022)

2022 and we still fighting about tonewoods on forums.


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## Emperoff (Feb 11, 2022)

I find quite surprising that a person with that much studio experience needs our opinion to get the Vildjartha or Periphery sound.

But fear not, I'm here to help:
- Buy all Misha signature gear
- Get an eq and cut everything besides 2,6khz. Boost those fuckers!
- Send the signal to the poweramp of the Peavey Invective.
- Add five noise gates.
- Profit!


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## CanserDYI (Feb 11, 2022)

Thesius said:


> 2022 and we still fighting about tonewoods on forums.


At least here its usually one guy saying "tonewood!" and literally the entire forum yelling "NO", then OP saying "but I know what i'm talking about!" and the rest of us saying "WE DONT THINK YOU DO".


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## Thesius (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> At least here its usually one guy saying "tonewood!" and literally the entire forum yelling "NO", then OP saying "but I know what i'm talking about!" and the rest of us saying "WE DONT THINK YOU DO".


I can only get the tones I want for my new dj0nt band with ash cut from the swamps of Dagobah.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> At least here its usually one guy saying "tonewood!" and literally the entire forum yelling "NO", then OP saying "but I know what i'm talking about!" and the rest of us saying "WE DONT THINK YOU DO".



I just want someone to come in and actually own more guitars then the average ss poster.


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## MrWulf (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> There are guitars made of basswood or plastic and they will never sound in the mix as well as alder or ash guitars you just won't get the frequencies you need for a tight readable mix, yes there are options to get a good sound out of them, but it's heavy and wrong path.



I'm sorry did you just disregard my answer by hide behind your "equipment" and "studio experience", but also think that guitars made of basswood (a wood that is used a lot by top tier guitarists like Misha, Satriani, or even extensively used in high end MIA from Music Man) won't sound good in a mix as well as alder or ash?


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## Tree (Feb 11, 2022)

Clearly those guitars and the people using them have not spent enough time in the studio.


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## bostjan (Feb 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> for some reason their mahogany sounds better than Epiphone's cheap terrible mahogany right?


Might be a bad example, since "mahogany" means something like half a dozen unrelated wood species. ...or, it might be the prime example, since "mahogany" means something like six different unrelated wood species and no one ever cared to differentiate them.

I still say that there's a straightforward way to settle this whole thing using the same pickups and the same strings and the same cables and a machine to pluck everything the same, then use a few different woods and do an FFT of the audio output (sound spectrum analysis). If the variation in the Fourier coefficients between different wood species is greater than 3x the variation in the Fourier coefficients between different wood from the same species, then the species of wood matters, otherwise, very likely not. If the variation between different audio recorded from the same note struck on the same piece of wood is not 1/3 of the variation between different pieces of wood, then we have to admit to ourselves that the wood doesn't make a considerable difference. You might get a variation somewhere between 1-3x, which might be inconclusive, I guess, in case someone tries to claim that they can hear better than the audio signal can represent sound.


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## nickgray (Feb 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> and no one ever cared to differentiate them



You were practically begging for this


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## ArtDecade (Feb 11, 2022)

If anyone else needs help identifying their wood, please DM here. #freeratings


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## Tree (Feb 11, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> If anyone else needs help identifying their wood, please DM here. #freeratings


Is this an open invitation for a mass inbox flooding of Wang amps?


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## ArtDecade (Feb 11, 2022)

Tree said:


> Is this an open invitation for a mass inbox flooding of Wang amps?



Feeling down? Turn up your Wang.


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## Tree (Feb 11, 2022)

Cum to think of it, I think OP's problem is his Wang, or lack thereof. He needs a proper Wang to get the twang out of his guit-fiddle.


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

I didn't say that basswood sounds bad and that music man or ibanez guitars are bad, I said that basswood won't have such tight low frequencies unlike ash and alder or mahogany and you simply won't get these frequencies from where to mix. Of course this place can be filled with bass but the mix will be different from the mix that you can get from other types of wood, not for the better for my taste, if we talk about heavy music, and not about music like jo satriani and so on.
By the way, I don’t remember that Misha used basswood guitars


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## dmlinger (Feb 11, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> But fear not, I'm here to help:
> - Buy all Misha signature gear


But which guitar...the mahogany one with Juggernauts, or the basswood one with Ragnaroks??


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## dmlinger (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> By the way, I don’t remember that Misha used basswood guitars


Oh yes for sure, for the longest time it was his go-to body wood. No clue if he still prefers it over other woods, but he likes it. His first gen Jackson sig was basswood, maple neck, and Juggernauts.

I build guitars. By no stretch am I well known, or anything like that. But I've built them with many different timbers. Ash, mahogany, rosewood necks, maple, ebony, etc. etc. Acoustically, they all sound pretty much the same. Plugged in, the one thing that makes a difference are the pickups. 

I've built identical guitars with ash bodies, maple neck, ebony board, with the only difference being the pickups. One had SD Pearly Gates and the other a JB/Jazz set. Obviously the Pearly Gates set was way different. However, I've also built a mahogany body, all rosewood neck model with Black Winters in them. 

Guess what...I could make the BW guitar and the JB guitar pull off the same tricks.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> I didn't say that basswood sounds bad and that music man or ibanez guitars are bad, I said that basswood won't have such tight low frequencies unlike ash and alder or mahogany and you simply won't get these frequencies from where to mix. Of course this place can be filled with bass but the mix will be different from the mix that you can get from other types of wood, not for the better for my taste, if we talk about heavy music, and not about music like jo satriani and so on.
> By the way, I don’t remember that Misha used basswood guitars



Look, this isn't your thread anymore. We are talking about wood and wangs now. Take a hike.


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## Tree (Feb 11, 2022)




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## MrWulf (Feb 11, 2022)

Artem said:


> I didn't say that basswood sounds bad and that music man or ibanez guitars are bad, I said that basswood won't have such tight low frequencies unlike ash and alder or mahogany and you simply won't get these frequencies from where to mix. Of course this place can be filled with bass but the mix will be different from the mix that you can get from other types of wood, not for the better for my taste, if we talk about heavy music, and not about music like jo satriani and so on.
> By the way, I don’t remember that Misha used basswood guitars



Im sorry what?? Did you just claim that Basswood wont be as tight as Ash or Alder or even Mahogany? Yeah GTFO im done.


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## Shoeless_jose (Feb 11, 2022)

This went wild I stopped mid page 2 but I have heard good things about BKP Blackdogs for 8 strings


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## Crash Dandicoot (Feb 11, 2022)

Is it too early to make a case for Thread of the Year*™*?


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## bostjan (Feb 11, 2022)

Tone doesn't come from the wood, it comes from the truss rod cover.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Tone doesn't come from the wood, it comes from the truss rod cover.


god, that was thread of the year for me


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## budda (Feb 11, 2022)

Citing periphery as a target tone then saying x wood is better in the mix than y wood is utterly hilarious. And that’s not a dig at the P crew.


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## Mboogie7 (Feb 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Tone doesn't come from the wood, it comes from the truss rod cover.


I thought it came from the plums


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## nickgray (Feb 11, 2022)

Tone is stored in the walls.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 11, 2022)

I thought it was in the knob. The tone knob. You turn it up when you want "more tone" and down when you want "less tone". Like, "Today I want seven tone", so you turn the knob to 7. Isn't that how that works?


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## LunatiqueRob (Feb 11, 2022)

I'm guessing the OP didn't even watch those videos I posted debunking "tonewood" in electric guitars. Because if he did, I don't see how he could still believe in it. 

And you know what? All those guitar manufacturers need people like him to keep making money off of, so they can sell him expensive "tonewood."


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## Artem (Feb 11, 2022)

I'm not going to prove something and answer everyone, it's more like a children's argument, the topic of the conversation is completely different, I think everyone should remain with their own opinion. I can reformulate my question: I ask you to share your experience, but better send me di guitars with pickups like bkp nailbomb, black hawk, aftermath or lundgren m7,8 or similar options from other manufacturers and black limba body


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## narad (Feb 11, 2022)

Pat said:


> What does progressive, dense and readable even mean?



Lookin' for that "The Grapes of Wrath" sound.


----------



## spudmunkey (Feb 11, 2022)

narad said:


> Lookin' for that "The Grapes of Wrath" sound.


Nah, my new EP is going for that more Flannery O'Connor vibe.


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## narad (Feb 12, 2022)

spudmunkey said:


> Nah, my new EP is going for that more Flannery O'Connor vibe.



Ah yea, I like that O'Connor sound too. Fast with complex overtones.


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## nickgray (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> but better send me di guitars with pickups like bkp nailbomb, black hawk, aftermath or lundgren m7,8 or similar options from other manufacturers and black limba body



Yeah, I'm sure half the forum members own like a dozen black limba 8 strings, all with BKPs and Lundgrens.

But seriously, you think wood affects the tone, but a different person playing a different guitar with a different setup (different action, different string gauges, different pickup height), with a different pick, and a different picking technique from you, that's all fine and good, you'll be able to hear through that. Those low mids in the black limba will shine through no matter what.

I don't even know what to say, it's like a blast from the past, good ol' mid 2000s forum days. Don't forget the $10000 converters and preamps, nothing less will do. And if you don't have an analogue summer, you're just plain wasting your time.


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

I saw an old discussion of a similar topic here, it was just about bkp and black limba, unfortunately I did not find the results of this conversation, so I hope that these people will appear here and I will get decent answers to my question, I'm not saying that it should be 8-string, it works for 6,7 strings too


nickgray said:


> Yeah, I'm sure half the forum members own like a dozen black limba 8 strings, all with BKPs and Lundgrens.
> 
> But seriously, you think wood affects the tone, but a different person playing a different guitar with a different setup (different action, different string gauges, different pickup height), with a different pick, and a different picking technique from you, that's all fine and good, you'll be able to hear through that. Those low mids in the black limba will shine through no matter what.
> 
> I don't even know what to say, it's like a blast from the past, good ol' mid 2000s forum days. Don't forget the $10000 converters and preamps, nothing less will do. And if you don't have an analogue summer, you're just


----------



## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Yeah, I'm sure half the forum members own like a dozen black limba 8 strings, all with BKPs and Lundgrens.
> 
> But seriously, you think wood affects the tone, but a different person playing a different guitar with a different setup (different action, different string gauges, different pickup height), with a different pick, and a different picking technique from you, that's all fine and good, you'll be able to hear through that. Those low mids in the black limba will shine through no matter what.
> 
> I don't even know what to say, it's like a blast from the past, good ol' mid 2000s forum days. Don't forget the $10000 converters and preamps, nothing less will do. And if you don't have an analogue summer, you're just plain wasting your time.


as for the quality of guitar recordings, I think that a lot will be clear to me when I listen to the tracks and make a reamp, plus I can always ask a person how and under what conditions he recorded the guitar, I mean preamps, compressors, overdrive and similar aspects, I think that I have enough experience to find or not find in them what I need


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Can you provide some examples of your studio work?


I am attaching one of my old work that was made specifically for testing ax fx amplifiers. I think it will be more than enough to understand that I have experience in the studio, although by this expression I meant some kind of development of auditory organs and not the height of the mixing skill


https://dropmefiles.com/aAK8g


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## Emperoff (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> I ask you to share your experience, but better send me di guitars with pickups like bkp nailbomb, black hawk, aftermath or lundgren m7,8 or similar options from other manufacturers and black limba body



Do you really think anyone is going to bother sending you those DIs you're requesting after this trainwreck of a thread?


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Do you really think anyone is going to bother sending you those DIs you're requesting after this trainwreck of a thread?


Well, I think that not everyone is like you, my friend, there is one good expression: People are not judged by themselves, but you just pass by if you don’t know what to say


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## dmlinger (Feb 12, 2022)

What are you trying to get out of this thread at this point? Trolling? People have already given you solid advice. Was that not what you wanted? Do you want us to throw out pickup recommendations for limba?

Here you go. These work with limba and every other body wood that has ever been used for a solid body guitar.

Black Winter, Alpha Omega, Invader, Nazgul, Sentient, Pegasus, Blackhawk, Nailbomb, Aftermath, Juggernaut, Ragnarok, Lundgren M8, Fishman Fluence, EMG, Dimarzio, Guitarmory, and on and on and on...

We (this community) get frustrated when we give people solid advise or insight and it gets ignored. Especially when it's over something so cork-sniffing like body wood in an electric solid body guitar and the player wants to sound like Periphery...dude Misha has used every fucking brand under the sun since he popped on the scene 15 years ago. Even his signature Jacksons use different woods and pickups. Hell, he even has a Strat now with a Ragnarok in it. 

Just fucking pick one and stop trying to justify the need for us to engage you in this ridiculous conversation. If you're so savvy in the world of studio work, you should know this already. 

/thread


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## budda (Feb 12, 2022)

Sell the guitar, clearly it doesnt sound good. /thread


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## Emperoff (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> Well, I think that not everyone is like you, my friend, there is one good expression: People are not judged by themselves, but you just pass by if you don’t know what to say



I think that quote didn't came out that well 

@dmlinger already summed it up quite well. Please re-read his post while you're reading mine. Meanwhile I'm gonna get some more popcorn.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> Well, I think that not everyone is like you, my friend, there is one good expression: People are not judged by themselves, but you just pass by if you don’t know what to say


....wut?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Feb 12, 2022)

"I like M8's in my 8-string and I want my 7 to sound like that"

"Try M7's" -SSO

*dons cookie monster snapback *

"Won't work, I haven't tried it but trust me bro"

*takes a sip of Rockstar©™® Energy Drink*

"You don't know tone man. I mean I asked for your opinion but you don't know about my wood bro. I got mad wood"

*hits bong filled with weed he didn't pay for and leaves*


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## Hollowway (Feb 12, 2022)

I have a black limba 8 string. But they're custom pups. That said, I can recommend you a pickup to pair well with black limba, if you're into wearing the emperor's new clothes. But, I'd rather be honest and tell you that, given my experience with pickups and 8s and a love for djenty tones, I'd get an Aftermath, and stop thinking about the limba itself. I have it in a few guitars, and love it. And, strangely, the Cepheus passives from Agile are very Lundgren sounding, and I've literally used those in a custom, because they're so good.

Also, I have a couple of Kiesels, and I find that their pickups (I'm not sure specifically which ones I have) are horrible. At least with my set up. So pretty much anything is going to sound better. But yeah, my vote would be for Aftermaths. Those are hands-down my favorite BKPs.


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> What are you trying to get out of this thread at this point? Trolling? People have already given you solid advice. Was that not what you wanted? Do you want us to throw out pickup recommendations for limba?
> 
> Here you go. These work with limba and every other body wood that has ever been used for a solid body guitar.
> 
> ...


As I said, I have seen adequate discussions of this topic from competent people on this forum before, that's why I made this post, so I would like to hear them, and not general words about wood, equalizers and some kind of trolling, if you don't competent in this topic, why write something at all? I mean people like the previous commentators. I need comments from people who have walked my path and found a solution, not some trolling. But thanks for trying to help.


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I have a black limba 8 string. But they're custom pups. That said, I can recommend you a pickup to pair well with black limba, if you're into wearing the emperor's new clothes. But, I'd rather be honest and tell you that, given my experience with pickups and 8s and a love for djenty tones, I'd get an Aftermath, and stop thinking about the limba itself. I have it in a few guitars, and love it. And, strangely, the Cepheus passives from Agile are very Lundgren sounding, and I've literally used those in a custom, because they're so good.
> 
> Also, I have a couple of Kiesels, and I find that their pickups (I'm not sure specifically which ones I have) are horrible. At least with my set up. So pretty much anything is going to sound better. But yeah, my vote would be for Aftermaths. Those are hands-down my favorite BKPs.


Oh my god, finally an adequate cometator. My kiesel has instrumentals SFTY-3s pickups, I haven't played stock kiesel pickups. I think Aftermath and nailbomb are the only correct solutions for me, or lundgren м8 neck in bridge position . The fact is that I have multi-scale and inclined pickups and it’s not so easy and not so cheap to buy them, so I don’t want to make a mistake in choosing otherwise I won’t even be able to sell them. And I read about Agile pickups and of course it would be interesting to try them, but as you can see, not everything is so simple in my case, thanks for your answer


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## Thesius (Feb 12, 2022)

An adequate commenter


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I have a black limba 8 string. But they're custom pups. That said, I can recommend you a pickup to pair well with black limba, if you're into wearing the emperor's new clothes. But, I'd rather be honest and tell you that, given my experience with pickups and 8s and a love for djenty tones, I'd get an Aftermath, and stop thinking about the limba itself. I have it in a few guitars, and love it. And, strangely, the Cepheus passives from Agile are very Lundgren sounding, and I've literally used those in a custom, because they're so good.
> 
> Also, I have a couple of Kiesels, and I find that their pickups (I'm not sure specifically which ones I have) are horrible. At least with my set up. So pretty much anything is going to sound better. But yeah, my vote would be for Aftermaths. Those are hands-down my favorite BKPs.


I also like the stock pickups from ormsby I think they sound good and they have a black limba model but I can't find examples of them with that wood. Ormsby sell their pickups separately, which would also be a good and inexpensive solution.


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## nickgray (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> I am attaching one of my old work that was made specifically for testing ax fx amplifiers. I think it will be more than enough to understand that I have experience in the studio, although by this expression I meant some kind of development of auditory organs and not the height of the mixing skill
> https://dropmefiles.com/aAK8g



No offense, but for all your talk about owning 7 guitars and having studio experience, this sounds like yet another random demo by a user on a forum. It's not bad, but it has all the usual problems - way too much limiting on the master, the guitars are too forward sound and have too much midrange, the drums don't sit quite right in the mix... But it's not bad, just nothing special really. I was expecting much worse tbh.

In any case, for the love of god, please listen to us and forget about obsessing over ridiculously minute details like pickups and especially tonewood. Imagine that you learned how to cook a decent tasting soup, and now you're obsessing about getting one of those $1k Japanese chef knives made of Damascus steel folded 5 quadrillion times. The knife won't do jack shit for your cooking skills. Same goes for your obsession with finding the "right" pickups for the black limba. You're like an audiophile who thinks buying a $50k directional cable made of ultra super duper pure copper will make all the difference in the world. Nobody but you gives a shit about black limba and pickups, even other guitarists consider these ideas wildly outlandish, and guitarists are insane people who obsess over trivial minute details the general audience will never, ever, ever be even remotely aware of.

Even if you believe that tonewoods make a difference and that throwing money at a boutique pickup will somehow improve things, do you actually believe that this is the weakest link in your mix? That if you found the right pickup the mix will transform itself from a forum user demo to the level of Vildhjarta or Periphery?

To add to that, you should focus on the actual music first. Plenty of people post demos on the forums, few end up being like Misha who makes and releases full tracks, and who founded a relatively successful (as far as niche bands go) band. You should also consider that production is secondary to the actual music material (disregarding edge cases where you record djent on a 4 track Tascam and expect to win a Grammy).


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> No offense, but for all your talk about owning 7 guitars and having studio experience, this sounds like yet another random demo by a user on a forum. It's not bad, but it has all the usual problems - way too much limiting on the master, the guitars are too forward sound and have too much midrange, the drums don't sit quite right in the mix... But it's not bad, just nothing special really. I was expecting much worse tbh.
> 
> In any case, for the love of god, please listen to us and forget about obsessing over ridiculously minute details like pickups and especially tonewood. Imagine that you learned how to cook a decent tasting soup, and now you're obsessing about getting one of those $1k Japanese chef knives made of Damascus steel folded 5 quadrillion times. The knife won't do jack shit for your cooking skills. Same goes for your obsession with finding the "right" pickups for the black limba. You're like an audiophile who thinks buying a $50k directional cable made of ultra super duper pure copper will make all the difference in the world. Nobody but you gives a shit about black limba and pickups, even other guitarists consider these ideas wildly outlandish, and guitarists are insane people who obsess over trivial minute details the general audience will never, ever, ever be even remotely aware of.
> 
> ...


I perfectly understand your logic, you are all right and believe me, I know exactly what I am asking about and what I want. and I said that this is one of my old works, yes, maybe there are flaws in it, but this is just an amplifier test. I would like to see your work if I can, here I see more taste preferences or comments.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Feb 12, 2022)

Alright, I'll concede it's a bit early to call Thread of the Year but this _has_ to make top 5. A truly enjoyable train wreck if I ever saw one.


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## budda (Feb 12, 2022)

language barriers aside, if you think you’re the smartest guy in the (virtual) room, you’re likely off to a bad start.

Buy a set of Ormsby’s - they make a black limba 8. /thread


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

budda said:


> language barriers aside, if you think you’re the smartest guy in the (virtual) room, you’re likely off to a bad start.
> 
> Buy a set of Ormsby’s - they make a black limba 8. /thread


no, friend, I don’t consider myself the smartest, but I just expected answers exactly on my question, I didn’t ask for an opinion on the properties of the tree or advice on how to use the equalizer, I said that I clearly understand what I want and even reformulated several times my question. Why write stupid jokes about wood or tone knobs if you don't know the answer and have no experience with a similar situation, just skip the discussion. off-topic comments


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## Hollowway (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> I also like the stock pickups from ormsby I think they sound good and they have a black limba model but I can't find examples of them with that wood. Ormsby sell their pickups separately, which would also be a good and inexpensive solution.


Agreed. I love the Ormsby pickups. They've got a great midrange tone that doesn't get too shrill (like the Kiesels I have).


----------



## budda (Feb 12, 2022)

“off-topic comments” ah he’s just new here.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> Oh my god, finally an adequate cometator.


LOL. OP is the worst. Sometimes I feel like a star and sometimes I am just an adequate comet.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> no, friend, I don’t consider myself the smartest, but I just expected answers exactly on my question, I didn’t ask for an opinion on the properties of the tree or advice on how to use the equalizer, I said that I clearly understand what I want and even reformulated several times my question. Why write stupid jokes about wood or tone knobs if you don't know the answer and have no experience with a similar situation, just skip the discussion. off-topic comments


You're not the boss of anyone, nor are you in charge of this thread. People are free to post what they want without your permission.

You seem to think people don't understand your question. They do. They think it's a stupid question, and the "off-topic" advice or jokes is the nice way of putting it.


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Agreed. I love the Ormsby pickups. They've got a great midrange tone that doesn't get too shrill (like the Kiesels I have).


I also liked how mayones and bkp TKO on black limba sound, but unfortunately bare knukle don't sell these pickups, they make them only for mayones


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## Artem (Feb 12, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> You're not the boss of anyone, nor are you in charge of this thread. People are free to post what they want without your permission.
> 
> You seem to think people don't understand your question. They do. They think it's a stupid question, and the "off-topic" advice or jokes is the nice way of putting it.


for me this is a completely normal question, if people do not understand the things I am talking about based on my experience, this does not mean that the question is stupid and I also saw that this question was asked here more than once or twice, while all the comments were adequate and to the point, I didn’t try to forbid anything to anyone, I just openly express my opinion


----------



## High Plains Drifter (Feb 12, 2022)

Artem said:


> no, friend, I don’t consider myself the smartest, but I just expected answers exactly on my question, I didn’t ask for an opinion on the properties of the tree or advice on how to use the equalizer, I said that I clearly understand what I want and even reformulated several times my question. Why write stupid jokes about wood or tone knobs if you don't know the answer and have no experience with a similar situation, just skip the discussion. off-topic comments



Dude... They gave you the answer... in a lot of different contexts and scenarios. You can have 'insert however many limba bodied guitars' from the same tree, handmade or CNC'd from the same luthier, the woods prepared and dried in the same exact manner... and the finished product is simply not going to sound exactly the same from one to the other! Add in hardware and electronics... it changes even more... add in all different aspects of mixing and production... and it changes even more. 

No one here is going to give you advice you on something that has such a vast array of variables... It's just not going to happen. And if you simply keep your side of the argument alive that there somehow SHOULD be some inherent property going back to the wood species and how XX pickups will affect that tone, then you're no longer engaging in a fruitful discussion. It's just you trying to find ONE person that might agree with you and even if you find that one person at this point, the six pages of collective experience going against your insistance should tell you something. You've really dug in your heels on this one but rest assured the replies throughout this thread have nothing to do with anyone's stupidity but your own.


----------



## Emperoff (Feb 12, 2022)




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## Empryrean (Feb 12, 2022)

I think the problem is the wood. Maybe get a 7 made of ash and put an M7 in it?


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## John (Feb 12, 2022)

The Nissan Frontier and Toyota Tacoma are worth considering, at this point.


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## Tree (Feb 12, 2022)

I’m honestly surprised this thread didn’t get shut down a few pages ago. I’m happy it didn’t, but surprised nonetheless.


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## Alberto7 (Feb 13, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Tone doesn't come from the wood, it comes from the truss rod cover.


I came looking for this and found it.

Flamed maple truss rod cover or gtfo. Not quilted. Flamed. It's the only adequate tree.

For real though, all I know is that different guitars will sound differently. Why? I don't really know. But I also know that if you can make your guitar sound like Hatsune Miku, you can probably EQ your guitar sound to whatever you want, regardless of guitar.


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## fantom (Feb 13, 2022)

It's really hard to read this thread and think that 30 years ago, iconic metal album tones were recorded on stock Gibsons through a HM2. This isn't even a case of not seeing the forest for the tree. This dude is stuck thinking a single leaf is the problem.


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## RiksRiks (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> I also like the stock pickups from ormsby I think they sound good and they have a black limba model but I can't find examples of them with that wood. Ormsby sell their pickups separately, which would also be a good and inexpensive solution.


What stock pickups are you talking about anyway? There's a bunch, both, Korean and Aussie made, this is just so vague


----------



## nickgray (Feb 13, 2022)

fantom said:


> It's really hard to read this thread and think that 30 years ago, iconic metal album tones were recorded on stock Gibsons through a HM2.



But imagine what could they achieve if they had black limba guitars with just the right pickups. We could've all been listening to the sweet sounds of post post-Djent right about now. We'd all be watching an interview of Trisha Bansoor, the world famous 69 string guitar player (interviewed by Bebecka Turks exclusively for Sitar World dot com). Alas, it was not to be. If only they had black limba guitars with the right pickups. If only...


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

RiksRiks said:


> What stock pickups are you talking about anyway? There's a bunch, both, Korean and Aussie made, this is just so vague


Korean, Hot rock pikups for Goliath 8 i think


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> Dude... They gave you the answer... in a lot of different contexts and scenarios. You can have 'insert however many limba bodied guitars' from the same tree, handmade or CNC'd from the same luthier, the woods prepared and dried in the same exact manner... and the finished product is simply not going to sound exactly the same from one to the other! Add in hardware and electronics... it changes even more... add in all different aspects of mixing and production... and it changes even more.
> 
> No one here is going to give you advice you on something that has such a vast array of variables... It's just not going to happen. And if you simply keep your side of the argument alive that there somehow SHOULD be some inherent property going back to the wood species and how XX pickups will affect that tone, then you're no longer engaging in a fruitful discussion. It's just you trying to find ONE person that might agree with you and even if you find that one person at this point, the six pages of collective experience going against your insistance should tell you something. You've really dug in your heels on this one but rest assured the replies throughout this thread have nothing to do with anyone's stupidity but your own.


Dude, if you didn't notice my question had a completely different context, my mistake was probably that I called this topic in the wrong way to provoke these stupid arguments. I was just looking for people who had a similar problem and found a solution and asked them to share their experience. But it turned into some kind of childish debate about the tree, dozens of people are trying to explain to me something that I did not ask at all. Let's respect other people's opinions and give comments on the topic, carefully reading the question and delving into its essence.


----------



## CanserDYI (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> Dude, if you didn't notice my question had a completely different context, my mistake was probably that I called this topic in the wrong way to provoke these stupid arguments. I was just looking for people who had a similar problem and found a solution and asked them to share their experience. But it turned into some kind of childish debate about the tree, dozens of people are trying to explain to me something that I did not ask at all. Let's respect other people's opinions and give comments on the topic, carefully reading the question and delving into its essence.


"Maybe someone had an experiment with this tree and someone found a solution"

Your question was literally about the tree dude...you're asking what pickups sound good in that specific tree....we gave you answers? Any pickup you like the sound of. You didn't like that answer and acted like your studio experience made you some sort of golden ear. Don't act like it was us that made this trainwreck happen, you stuck your own stick in your spokes.


----------



## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> "Maybe someone had an experiment with this tree and someone found a solution"
> 
> Your question was literally about the tree dude...you're asking what pickups sound good in that specific tree....we gave you answers? Any pickup you like the sound of. You didn't like that answer and acted like your studio experience made you some sort of golden ear. Don't act like it was us that made this trainwreck happen, you stuck your own stick in your spokes.


I agree, maybe it sounded a little different than I wanted, maybe it justified such comments, but I think that I have already explained and specified my question and expectations several times


----------



## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> "Maybe someone had an experiment with this tree and someone found a solution"
> 
> Your question was literally about the tree dude...you're asking what pickups sound good in that specific tree....we gave you answers? Any pickup you like the sound of. You didn't like that answer and acted like your studio experience made you some sort of golden ear. Don't act like it was us that made this trainwreck happen, you stuck your own stick in your spokes.


And about the golden ear. You know, at least I provided proof of my words and you yourself could evaluate my abilities by listening to my work. But someone here, I think, deserves only the title of "golden tongue" (it's not about you), it seems like they are trying to adequately criticize my work, but also not to provide others with proof of their competence as a sound engineer or critic.


----------



## CanserDYI (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> And about the golden ear. You know, at least I provided proof of my words and you yourself could evaluate my abilities by listening to my work. But someone here, I think, deserves only the title of "golden tongue" (it's not about you), it seems like they are trying to adequately criticize my work, but also not to provide others with proof of their competence as a sound engineer or critic.


Literally not one person here questioned your ability to mix. We're telling you focusing on this is a waste of your time.


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## MrWulf (Feb 13, 2022)

Your mix is pretty average considering it is your prototypical modern metal, perhaps deathcore-esque mix, with little to no dynamic and everything blown out to the max. If thats proof that you know what you are doing then sir, you are far from it.


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## High Plains Drifter (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> Dude, if you didn't notice my question had a completely different context, my mistake was probably that I called this topic in the wrong way to provoke these stupid arguments. I was just looking for people who had a similar problem and found a solution and asked them to share their experience. But it turned into some kind of childish debate about the tree, dozens of people are trying to explain to me something that I did not ask at all. Let's respect other people's opinions and give comments on the topic, carefully reading the question and delving into its essence.


 I read most of your comments and what I got from them is that you are looking for how certain pickups are going to sound in a black limba bodied guitar. I don't think that I misinterpreted anything in that regard. Your insistence regarding the specifics of what you're looking for has been countered with much more pertinent recommendations regarding potential solutions as well as why your perceived logic might not necessarily be applicable. You've pretty much pushed back on most all of that advice. Apologies for coming across disrespectful but I definitely feel that you're beating the proverbial dead horse as it relates to your initial postings. 

If anything, I applaud most of the replies in this thread because they are people that are trying their best to save you some headaches along with the likelihood that when all is said and done, you've wasted your time and money chasing down some particular tonality that wasn't what you anticipated.


----------



## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Literally not one person here questioned your ability to mix. We're telling you focusing on this is a waste of your time.


This is not my first experience, friend. All my guitars have also gone through this and served to achieve some goals, and in the end I got what I wanted, so I immediately said that I understand exactly what I want. Actually, I need these experiments only for studio work.


----------



## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> I read most of your comments and what I got from them is that you are looking for how certain pickups are going to sound in a black limba bodied guitar. I don't think that I misinterpreted anything in that regard. Your insistence regarding the specifics of what you're looking for has been countered with much more pertinent recommendations regarding potential solutions as well as why your perceived logic might not necessarily be applicable. You've pretty much pushed back on most all of that advice. Apologies for coming across disrespectful but I definitely feel that you're beating the proverbial dead horse as it relates to your initial postings.
> 
> If anything, I applaud most of the replies in this thread because they are people that are trying their best to save you some headaches along with the likelihood that when all is said and done, you've wasted your time and money chasing down some particular tonality that wasn't what you anticipated.


I see you have good analytical thinking, but as I said earlier, I am not going to change my point of view and I am not going to argue with anyone, let alone believe some stupidly filmed video and so on. I'm just waiting for those people who have this experience, I know for sure that they are on this forum, as I saw useful information from them earlier. but yes, unfortunately, so far I don’t see them in this conversation


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

MrWulf said:


> Your mix is pretty average considering it is your prototypical modern metal, perhaps deathcore-esque mix, with little to no dynamic and everything blown out to the max. If thats proof that you know what you are doing then sir, you are far from it.


Okay, please shiw me your mix, sir. I will answer this with the words of the Russian classic A. Griboyedov: And who is the judge?


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

MrWulf said:


> Your mix is pretty average considering it is your prototypical modern metal, perhaps deathcore-esque mix, with little to no dynamic and everything blown out to the max. If thats proof that you know what you are doing then sir, you are far from it.


Do you see the need for some kind of dynamic transitions here? The whole song consists of breakdowns, but of course everything is turned up to the maximum here to get a groove, what are you talking about? This mix was listened to by quite famous sound engineers who work in similar styles, maybe your taste preferences do not match mine, but this does not give a reason to call it a mediocre work


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## budda (Feb 13, 2022)

You could have had a new guitar or new pickups in and been playing by now


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

budda said:


> You could have had a new guitar or new pickups in and been playing by now



Of course I could, but I just can't come to terms with the fact that spending 3 thousand bucks on a guitar will remain without use, in some way I'm a perfectionist and I want everything to work as I intended


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## MrWulf (Feb 13, 2022)

Lol, this thread is going well. If you cant even stomach the thoughts of someone not liking your mix over the internet, then maybe you shouldnt solicit opinions on the internet to begin with.

Maybe you should ask those famous engineers instead of us.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 13, 2022)

Guys how do I add 2 frets to my prs? It's spruce and mahogany. just need to work as intended.


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

MrWulf said:


> Lol, this thread is going well. If you cant even stomach the thoughts of someone not liking your mix over the internet, then maybe you shouldnt solicit opinions on the internet to begin with.
> 
> Maybe you should ask those famous engineers instead of us.


Do you think I didn't ask them? No, it's not, I normally take criticism, but it should be constructive


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> Guys how do I add 2 frets to my prs? It's spruce and mahogany. just need to work as intended.


For starters, try smearing shit on your guitar, I've heard that will help eliminate the extra noise.


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## Antiproduct (Feb 13, 2022)

I am not gonna argue on the whole wood thing. Whether wood affects the tone or not, whether you are right or not: your whole guitar is a system with an "EQ" as a result. And you want this EQ curve to be different to suit your needs. Fair enough.

But please read up on how pickups actually work and what affects them. It is possible that you can find your desired tone by changing your Volume and/or Tone pots to a higher value. Or by changing the capacitor. Or with different strings. Or pickups height. Or your even your cable. Read up on impedance, how you can make filters with your electronics and how they are influencing each other. 
Even IF there is someone else on here that has a black limba 8 string with pickups that bring them a djent tone, you have no clue what kind of other parts they use that changes their sound massively even before the signal leaves the cable.


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## fantom (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> Okay, please shiw me your mix, sir. I will answer this with the words of the Russian classic A. Griboyedov: And who is the judge?


No want wants to be the judge. Can you just measure your dick for us and we'll all be impressed. I promise.


----------



## fantom (Feb 13, 2022)

I'm going to offer a different opinion here.

I believe that a recorded guitar can sound different through the same amp, cab, and mic. I won't try to convince anyone which part of the signal chain is worth focusing on because it seems like chasing the dragon.

If you don't like the guitar, do something. SD and DiMarzio each offer exchange policies if you aren't happy.

As for recording, I feel like your approach of trying to describe what you want, but not being able to achieve it, is part of the problem. It's an art. Sometimes you have to listen to what you have and make it work. Think about any synth parts. It's nearly impossible to find a sample lib that has the exact sound I want. But mixing VSTs or using totally different sounds than I intended sometimes leads to a better outcome. Because I'm listening to reality and not what's in my head.


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## dmlinger (Feb 13, 2022)

Oh we're still doing this, I see. 

Remind me what the question was again? Something about midrange in limba?


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## nickgray (Feb 13, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> Remind me what the question was again? Something about midrange in limba?



I think it was about black limbo.


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

fantom said:


> No want wants to be the judge. Can you just measure your dick for us and we'll all be impressed. I promise.


When you want to be witty, but you have to get up for school tomorrow


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## budda (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> When you want to be witty, but you have to get up for school tomorrow


When your question has been answered and you insist it hasnt. 

Your 3k guitar isnt working out. That happens. Sell it and buy something else. It is that easy.


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## fantom (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> When you want to be witty, but you have to get up for school tomorrow


Legitimate question:

If you have access to top producers and they are listening to your mixes, why the $#@& are you here gracing us with your presence and challenging people to mix-offs when you ego is bruised? Can't you just ask your top tier producers for advice? Or did you show them you keen perception and social skills too often?


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## Emperoff (Feb 13, 2022)

8 pages already and the thread is still alive. I'm impressed


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## MrWulf (Feb 13, 2022)

Can we lock the thread? At this point its very unproductive and its probably a troll job tbh


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## Tree (Feb 13, 2022)

I honestly think it’s just the language barrier with a good helping of ego. Russian translates a lot of English very terribly, and vice versa.


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## nickgray (Feb 13, 2022)

Tree said:


> Russian translates a lot of English very terribly, and vice versa.



I think OP just needs a better guitar at this point. There you go - Mikhail Mansoorovich signature model, the tone is distilled to perfection. Goes down to drop G nice and smooth


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## budda (Feb 13, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> 8 pages already and the thread is still alive. I'm impressed


to be fair lots of people are bored


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## profwoot (Feb 13, 2022)

I think the guy's mix is pretty good, honestly. 

Which makes this thread all the more confusing


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

budda said:


> When your question has been answered and you insist it hasnt.
> 
> Your 3k guitar isnt working out. That happens. Sell it and buy something else. It is that easy.


I don't want to sell the guitar, I'm completely satisfied with it, but I'm not satisfied with the pickups, I just need to choose the right ones,That's what I'm here for, because I don't want to spend another 3k on different pickups, and then it's very difficult to sell them because they're slanted.


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## narad (Feb 13, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I think it was about black limbo.
> 
> View attachment 103273



Sweet sassafras of calabasas!


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I think OP just needs a better guitar at this point. There you go - Mikhail Mansoorovich signature model, the tone is distilled to perfection. Goes down to drop G nice and smooth
> 
> View attachment 103280


Wow, the Putin jokes are about to start. I think I met a dude from your school up here a little higher


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

profwoot said:


> I think the guy's mix is pretty good, honestly.
> 
> Which makes this thread all the more confusing


Is this not a reason to think that a person really understands what he is talking about. and you can at least try to respect his opinion, and not try to convince or make a stupid joke?


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## Artem (Feb 13, 2022)

Tree said:


> I honestly think it’s just the language barrier with a good helping of ego. Russian translates a lot of English very terribly, and vice versa.


Sometimes I am impulsive and try to answer quickly, maybe this also affects my grammar, sorry but I try to be clearer


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## nickgray (Feb 13, 2022)

Artem said:


> Wow, the Putin jokes are about to start



Hey, you're the one who's Stalin


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Hey, you're the one who's Stalin


It is better not to touch on the topic of History, otherwise this conversation risks becoming endless.


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## Hoss632 (Feb 14, 2022)

Fishman Moderns, Duncan Alpha/Omega. Didn't read through the thread to see which Kiesel pups you installed. If it's the lithiums I'm honestly surprised that you'd have too much low end with those.


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## Pietjepieter (Feb 14, 2022)

This threat just made my day... 

oh and M8


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## Emperoff (Feb 14, 2022)

At the risk of ruining everybody's fun, I think I know who might have your answers (or at least similar guitars as yours).

Find PariahVsGear on Youtube. Message him about this (has has same kind of guitars, same pickups, etc). Maybe you will listen to him. You can use your studio expertise as a trade.

No one else in here will say what you want to hear, so don't waste your time.


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> Fishman Moderns, Duncan Alpha/Omega. Didn't read through the thread to see which Kiesel pups you installed. If it's the lithiums I'm honestly surprised that you'd have too much low end with those.


I have SFTY3 instrumentals installed unfortunately those manufacturers you listed don't make slanted pickups, yes I considered them


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

I don’t think that I ignored someone, I tried to answer everyone, it’s just that then there were a lot of the same tips that didn’t work for me and I voiced the answers to these suggestions earlier in the thread


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> At the risk of ruining everybody's fun, I think I know who might have your answers (or at least similar guitars as yours).
> 
> Find PariahVsGear on Youtube. Message him about this (has has same kind of guitars, same pickups, etc). Maybe you will listen to him. You can use your studio expertise as a trade.
> 
> No one else in here will say what you want to hear, so don't waste your time.


I don’t think that I ignored someone, I tried to answer everyone, it’s just that then there were a lot of the same tips that didn’t work for me and I voiced the answers to these suggestions earlier in the thread


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## SamSam (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> for me this is a completely normal question, if people do not understand the things I am talking about based on my experience, this does not mean that the question is stupid and I also saw that this question was asked here more than once or twice, while all the comments were adequate and to the point, I didn’t try to forbid anything to anyone, I just openly express my opinion




Wasn't gonna comment. But. No one can understand what you are talking about based on your experience. It's literally impossible. We can't perceive what you have perceived.


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## Emperoff (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> I don’t think that I ignored someone, I tried to answer everyone, it’s just that then there were a lot of the same tips that didn’t work for me and I voiced the answers to these suggestions earlier in the thread



Yes, you are ignoring everyone. Your reply should have been: "Thanks for the suggestion, I will check that PariahVsGear dude".

Looks you're just determined to argue with everybody instead of taking action. If you can afford 3k guitars, you can afford trying new pickups on them.


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

SamSam said:


> Wasn't gonna comment. But. No one can understand what you are talking about based on your experience. It's literally impossible. We can't perceive what you have perceived.


well, in short, I don't want to argue about the effect of wood on sound. And I just want to get comments and experiences from people who have had similar problems and found good solutions for themselves


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Yes, you are ignoring everyone. Your reply should have been: "Thanks for the suggestion, I will check that PariahVsGear dude".
> 
> Looks you're just determined to argue with everybody instead of taking action. If you can afford 3k guitars, you can afford trying new pickups on them.


thanks for the info, i think i didn't mean to be rude or arrogant, i'm here for the first time so i'm not quite familiar with the rules.


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Yes, you are ignoring everyone. Your reply should have been: "Thanks for the suggestion, I will check that PariahVsGear dude".
> 
> Looks you're just determined to argue with everybody instead of taking action. If you can afford 3k guitars, you can afford trying new pickups on them.


in my case, it’s not easy, my pickups are inclined and mostly they are made only to order, firstly it takes a long time, secondly it’s expensive, and thirdly, I simply won’t be able to sell them if they don’t suit me. therefore, this offer is at least unprofitable for me


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## Pietjepieter (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> I have SFTY3 instrumentals installed unfortunately those manufacturers you listed don't make slanted pickups, yes I considered them


My overload has SFTY3's in a black limba body with 28" to 26.5" multiscale... sounds absolutely great!


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## Antiproduct (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> in my case, it’s not easy, my pickups are inclined and mostly they are made only to order, firstly it takes a long time, secondly it’s expensive, and thirdly, I simply won’t be able to sell them if they don’t suit me. therefore, this offer is at least unprofitable for me


Try to change your other electric components as suggested by me here.
Literally costs under 50$ if you change everything (except pickups ofc)


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> My overload has SFTY3's in a black limba body with 28" to 26.5" multiscale... sounds absolutely great!


do you have studio or demo records with your guitar? what tune do you have?


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Frostod said:


> Try to change your other electric components as suggested by me here.
> Literally costs under 50$ if you change everything (except pickups ofc)


I think I understood your idea, I understand and know about these little things and nuances. I think that I can hear the potential and are there any frequencies that I am struggling with now even in the finished mix


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> My overload has SFTY3's in a black limba body with 28" to 26.5" multiscale... sounds absolutely great!


I think this wood is very loud by its very nature and these pickups also have high power, besides big resonances in the low mids I don't like artifacts from the 8 string and steel frets, clang more like a bass guitar than an electric guitar. I understand that you can remove this overtone with a thicker string, but the resonances will not be removed from this, this is more about the nature of the pickup


----------



## IwantTacos (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think this wood is very loud by its very nature and these pickups also have high power, besides big resonances in the low mids I don't like artifacts from the 8 string and steel frets, clang more like a bass guitar than an electric guitar. I understand that you can remove this overtone with a thicker string, but the resonances will not be removed from this, this is more about the nature of the pickup



no bruh thinner strings.


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## Pietjepieter (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> do you have studio or demo records with your guitar? what tune do you have?


I used it on my bands album:  

Only that does not say anything since I also used my red layer's (black limba + m8) and my claas (walnut + Lace) and the other guitar player uses a PRS and Jackson.... So euh I think it is quite hard to pick the overload sound from it..... I could make a quick recording but no time at the moment.

But never had any problem with the low mids or something, I tune EAEADGBE. 

Don't overthink it man, and go thinner strings, thicker strings make it more bassie..... 
And take good care of your amp settings, be careful with to much gain on 8's


----------



## Pietjepieter (Feb 14, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> I used it on my bands album:
> 
> Only that does not say anything since I also used my red layer's (black limba + m8) and my claas (walnut + Lace) and the other guitar player uses a PRS and Jackson.... So euh I think it is quite hard to pick the overload sound from it..... I could make a quick recording but no time at the moment.
> 
> ...



Damn the forums shows a bandcamp player how cool!!!!!! 
Never new that was possible!


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> I used it on my bands album:
> 
> Only that does not say anything since I also used my red layer's (black limba + m8) and my claas (walnut + Lace) and the other guitar player uses a PRS and Jackson.... So euh I think it is quite hard to pick the overload sound from it..... I could make a quick recording but no time at the moment.
> 
> ...



did you use different guitars for the double track? that sounds weird
Thanks for your advice, I'm glad you're happy with it


----------



## profwoot (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> Is this not a reason to think that a person really understands what he is talking about. and you can at least try to respect his opinion, and not try to convince or make a stupid joke?


No, because clearly you have a giant blind spot about this topic, despite your experience. Rather than continuing to dig in, consider the possibility that you're simply wrong about this. Those with experience should understand how easy it is to be wrong about things, because they've discovered a bunch of things they've been wrong about (and hopefully corrected) over the years.

I actually do think wood makes a difference, I just don't think it makes a very big difference, and I would guess that the variation within each type of wood is at least as large as the variation between different types of wood, making wood type a nonsensical criterion for pickup choice.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Feb 14, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Tone is stored in the walls.


that's why I have good tone 

I live in the walls


----------



## narad (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> It is better not to touch on the topic of History, otherwise this conversation risks becoming endless.



But if we do not, we are doomed to repeat this thread.


----------



## IwantTacos (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> did you use different guitars for the double track? that sounds weird
> Thanks for your advice, I'm glad you're happy with it



pst that's how mixes are supposed to sound.


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

profwoot said:


> No, because clearly you have a giant blind spot about this topic, despite your experience. Rather than continuing to dig in, consider the possibility that you're simply wrong about this. Those with experience should understand how easy it is to be wrong about things, because they've discovered a bunch of things they've been wrong about (and hopefully corrected) over the years.
> 
> I actually do think wood makes a difference, I just don't think it makes a very big difference, and I would guess that the variation within each type of wood is at least as large as the variation between different types of wood, making wood type a nonsensical criterion for pickup choice.


I agree with you, but I also had similar experiences in the past with my other guitars. For example, I needed a sound like a mansoor. I just put pickups like his in alder, even though it was not even a Jackson and everything works fine. Then I liked the sound of humanity last breath and I used ash and lundgren as on the Buster guitar and everything works the same. There were also examples with Loomis and merrow and so on, with the right combination, you can easily get exactly the same sound without unnecessary manipulation


----------



## IwantTacos (Feb 14, 2022)

Also I don't know who needs to hear this since we're all just shouting into the wind here but...

95 percent of pickups are the same except for the baseplates. 

it's the baseplates that are angled. 

shhh don't tell anyone.


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## bostjan (Feb 14, 2022)

Wow, this is still going?

Here's my little gem of useless knowledge:

Record your guitar tracks as full range as possible. They'll sound bright and brittle and shitty. Then apply EQ to tame them, until they sound even more shitty on their own, but sit well in the mix.

My mixes are certainly not great, but that test mix you uploaded sounds like 95% guitar! The guitar tone is great on it's own, but sounds bad in the mix, because it's trampling all over everything else. Try to balance things out with a more holistic approach. Maybe the end result and also the fact that we are soooo focused on how a certain pickup will sound paired with a certain species of wood are closely related.

Don't let "perfect" become the enemy of "good." If you get too caught up in minor details, you might score a pyrrhic victory and lose the entire war. It's always good to stay attached to the big picture.

Just my


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> pst that's how mixes are supposed to sound.


well, in general it should be recorded on one guitar and preferably by one person, to get a tighter sound. Otherwise, if the guitars have different specifications, you risk getting a frequency imbalance, plus some moments like palm mutes will not sound tight if one person plays them with a strong attack and the other with a weak one, experienced sound engineers do not allow this


----------



## IwantTacos (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> well, in general it should be recorded on one guitar and preferably by one person, to get a tighter sound. Otherwise, if the guitars have different specifications, you risk getting a frequency imbalance, plus some moments like palm mutes will not sound tight if one person plays them with a strong attack and the other with a weak one, experienced sound engineers do not allow this






this is all you get now.


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Wow, this is still going?
> 
> Here's my little gem of useless knowledge:
> 
> ...


I think that my mix is made for a specific reference and fully corresponds to it, maybe your taste preferences do not coincide with mine, but I heard you, thank you. Well, I think what you call the little things is just the key to getting some kind of goals for me


----------



## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> View attachment 103291
> 
> 
> this is all you get now.


What do you mean?


----------



## bostjan (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think that my mix is made for a specific reference and fully corresponds to it, maybe your taste preferences do not coincide with mine, but I heard you, thank you. Well, I think what you call the little things is just the key to getting some kind of goals for me


Yes, if it's a demo of a certain guitar tone, then that ought to do the trick. And that's really what it's all about - get it to do the trick, and as long as you are happy with it, call it done. It's something I struggled with for years, and I passed up a lot of good opportunities waiting for perfection that never approached.

Everyone going in the direction of what I hear in that mix is using Fishman Fluence or Seymour Duncan Blackouts or Nazgul/Black Winter or good ol' EMGs. I haven't personally tried the Fishmans, but it's the bandwagon everyone seemed to be jumping on a couple years ago and there hasn't really been a new product since then. Active pickups are heavily preamped, so the magnets, woods, and even the strings make less of a difference in the tone than usual, and you get a pretty homogeneous tone. If you are using amp modeling, like Fractal, then that should be even more true.

Anyway, best of luck finding the tone you are chasing!


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## Pietjepieter (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> well, in general it should be recorded on one guitar and preferably by one person, to get a tighter sound. Otherwise, if the guitars have different specifications, you risk getting a frequency imbalance, plus some moments like palm mutes will not sound tight if one person plays them with a strong attack and the other with a weak one, experienced sound engineers do not allow this


I don't know man, I mean I am not a professional studio guy nor anywhere close to a professional player. Put I think for double tracking the most important thing is play tight, I like to blend a bit with sound for double tracking, a more cleaner guitar and a little more distorded one works great. One for the oepfh and one for the pling (wait how do I say it) but it dempends I also have 2 guitar players in the band, that makes also things different. And than you go to mixing, removing anoing frequensies, making room for other instruments etc. And then there is the moment that you think humm sounds nice.

You can get to that point with same setup for double tracking or different, all depends upon the tone you are after and than again so much happens during mixing that I don's know if it all maters that mutch.

I mean I recorded once the same riff whit a emg loaded jackson, a lace loaded claas and a Redlayer with M8. After doing some work with EQ -> compressing, etc. I could make them almost sound the same in a full mix. They did not sound the same, but the mix sounds the same (with drums, bass, synth cookies, screeming guy).
So in mine humble opinion everybody is worried way to much about the guitar tone, I mean EMG's are not done anymore, but so many kick ass sounding records are recorded with them....?
Off course I am also like guitars that sounds good etc. but when it comes to a full mix I personally thing the player, the amp and the sound engineer/mixing guy make the real difference (oh and the trust rot cover, reason i do not record headless guitars anymore, it's just lacking something)


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## nickgray (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> It is better not to touch on the topic of History, otherwise this conversation risks becoming endless.



It's a pun. You know, Stalin, as in stalling, Sounds alike.

We've all tried being serious, but your problem is that you don't seem to be looking for any actual advice or answers, you just want your feelings validated. Imagine you came to a recording forum and made a thread "Which of those $500000 cables is the best one", and virtually everyone answered that you're being completely silly and expensive cables are a total scam, but you keep persisting that you don't care, that you still want that cable, and that $500000 cables do make a difference. What are we supposed to do? I mean, it's a public forum, why are you even bothering if you supposedly have access to top producers or whatever? Go ask Jens Bogren.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 14, 2022)

Upload left and right rhythm DI tracks of your Kiesel and an example of the guitar tone you want. 

If nobody here can get close to the tone you want then it’s time for new pickups or to save money get the current ones re-wound.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> well, in general it should be recorded on one guitar and preferably by one person, to get a tighter sound. Otherwise, if the guitars have different specifications, you risk getting a frequency imbalance, plus some moments like palm mutes will not sound tight if one person plays them with a strong attack and the other with a weak one, experienced sound engineers do not allow this



Geez. And I thought I was drunk last night.


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## Albake21 (Feb 14, 2022)

This thread is like the epitome of the bedroom djent musicians wanting to be a bulb 2.0


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## The Mirror (Feb 14, 2022)

Is this r/guitarcirclejerk leaking or is it really meant seriously?

Anyways, have you tried using a butterscotch telly 8 string?


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## nickgray (Feb 14, 2022)

The Mirror said:


> Is this r/guitarcirclejerk leaking or is it really meant seriously?



OP needs a Roberta


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Upload left and right rhythm DI tracks of your Kiesel and an example of the guitar tone you want.
> 
> If nobody here can get close to the tone you want then it’s time for new pickups or to save money get the current ones re-wound.


oh no my friend, I don't think my situation is that bad. I can achieve the desired tone myself, I need to carry out quite a few manipulations and at least there will be a loss of useful low frequencies due to resonance in this area. i think i don't like a lot of mids in the original signal, they still leave a tint. Moreover, I don't think it makes sense to get that guitar tone out of the context of the mix.


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## dmlinger (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> oh no my friend, I don't think my situation is that bad. I can achieve the desired tone myself, I need to carry out quite a few manipulations and at least there will be a loss of useful low frequencies due to resonance in this area. i think i don't like a lot of mids in the original signal, they still leave a tint. Moreover, I don't think it makes sense to get that guitar tone out of the context of the mix.


You come in here asking for new pickup recommendations and ask (rhetorically or not) the members here to post DI guitar tracks. 

Then...when a well respected member asks you to upload DI tracks so we can hear what it is you're hearing in this limba Kiesel 8 string of yours, you decline?! And you also allude that your issue isn't bad enough for new pickups?! Or were you saying your issue isn't bad enough for you to post DI tracks?

You can't be helped. Time to putin baby in the corner.


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## bostjan (Feb 14, 2022)

The appearance of so many threads like this lately has me wondering if I am a bot.


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## John (Feb 14, 2022)

bostjan said:


> The appearance of so many threads like this lately has me wondering if I am a bot.



I regret to inform you that you're indeed a bot. I... I'm so sorry.


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## bostjan (Feb 14, 2022)

John said:


> I regret to inform you that you're indeed a bot. I... I'm so sorry.


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> You come in here asking for new pickup recommendations and ask (rhetorically or not) the members here to post DI guitar tracks.
> 
> Then...when a well respected member asks you to upload DI tracks so we can hear what it is you're hearing in this limba Kiesel 8 string of yours, you decline?! And you also allude that your issue isn't bad enough for new pickups?! Or were you saying your issue isn't bad enough for you to post DI tracks?
> 
> You can't be helped. Time to putin baby in the corner.


I think taking the guitar tone out of the context of the mix doesn't make sense. My question is, I find black limba to have a lot of mids naturally and I want choose pikups with a cut in the midrange to get a balanced sound from my guitar. So I asked who had similar problems and which pickups helped to get a balanced sound. It's just that I have already seen exactly such a discussion here and also saw interesting answers and solutions, but unfortunately I did not see the results and conclusions. And at the moment I think that after a long discussion, everyone is already confused and forgot about the essence of the issue.


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## dmlinger (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think taking the guitar tone out of the context of the mix doesn't make sense. My question is, I find black limba to have a lot of mids naturally and I want choose pikups with a cut in the midrange to get a balanced sound from my guitar. So I asked who had similar problems and which pickups helped to get a balanced sound. It's just that I have already seen exactly such a discussion here and also saw interesting answers and solutions, but unfortunately I did not see the results and conclusions. And at the moment I think that after a long discussion, everyone is already confused and forgot about the essence of the issue.


What are you even talking about...taking it out of context? I get what you mean about a guitar sitting in the mix. In fact, a guitar is supposed to sit in the MIDDLE of a mix. By middle, I mean midrange. Kick and bass holding down the low, guitars and vocals in the middle, cymbals up high. That's an oversimplification, but you get the point.

You're a troll. You ask us for DI tracks then throw out this bullshit about context in the mix so you can't possibly send DIs of your guitar highlighting the issue. 

Sell the guitar and buy a new one. Answer


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## Emperoff (Feb 14, 2022)

Honestly I don't know what this thread is about anymore


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## anunnaki (Feb 14, 2022)

Literally just go to a brand that makes slanted pickups, tell them the tone you're looking for and what's wrong with your current pickups and they can make them for you to match the tone you want. you can even send them your DI's and tell them what frequencies are causing problems and they can select the correct magnet and winding to suit.

Someone here has suggested ormsby, maybe also check out Elysian whenever he opens up his shop again. please close the thread, I have ADHD and can't stop myself from reading 11 pages of this nonsense


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> What are you even talking about...taking it out of context? I get what you mean about a guitar sitting in the mix. In fact, a guitar is supposed to sit in the MIDDLE of a mix. By middle, I mean midrange. Kick and bass holding down the low, guitars and vocals in the middle, cymbals up high. That's an oversimplification, but you get the point.
> 
> You're a troll. You ask us for DI tracks then throw out this bullshit about context in the mix so you can't possibly send DIs of your guitar highlighting the issue.
> 
> Sell the guitar and buy a new one. Answer


What's the point of sending you the di of my guitar? I explained,that only needed to get the guitar tone in the overall mix and do it to the reference I was looking for. Of course the guitar sounds and sounds good, but I explained that I wanted to get a different sound, since I was not satisfied with the resonances in the lower middle.


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## Artem (Feb 14, 2022)

anunnaki said:


> Literally just go to a brand that makes slanted pickups, tell them the tone you're looking for and what's wrong with your current pickups and they can make them for you to match the tone you want. you can even send them your DI's and tell them what frequencies are causing problems and they can select the correct magnet and winding to suit.
> 
> Someone here has suggested ormsby, maybe also check out Elysian whenever he opens up his shop again. please close the thread, I have ADHD and can't stop myself from reading 11 pages of this nonsense


Yes, it would be a great way out, but I did not find those pickup manufacturers who would approach the issue so reverently. They only talk about it in outline and to the maximum extent that you only have a rough frequency response diagram on the bkp pickups site.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 14, 2022)

Fuckin close this nightmare already, fuck.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 14, 2022)

Guys when conversing with people online it’s sometimes helpful to figure out where they are coming from. 

I think I’ve got this figured out. 

If you listened to his mix I think what he’s after here is a guitar tone that

-Does not cut at all through the mix 
-And lacks all dynamic range and contrast. 

His black limba guitar hurts his poor little ears. 

What we need to do is to find him a set of pickups that will suck all the life out of the guitar.


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## nickgray (Feb 14, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> And lacks all dynamic range and contrast.



There you go  Rick Rubin would've been proud!

Reek Roobin Remix


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## fantom (Feb 14, 2022)

Artem said:


> What's the point of sending you the di of my guitar? I explained,that only needed to get the guitar tone in the overall mix and do it to the reference I was looking for. Of course the guitar sounds and sounds good, but I explained that I wanted to get a different sound, since I was not satisfied with the resonances in the lower middle.


Is this a joke?

FFS, help people, who are legitimately trying to help you, need to understand what you are hearing. The easiest way to do that is to give them a DI.

You also haven't posted anything about your signal chain (amp, cab, mic, etc.).

Korina and Mahogany have been used for metal guitar for decades. I'm sure any professional sound engineer can tell you which pickups worked in any of those guitars.


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## High Plains Drifter (Feb 14, 2022)

Gotta admit... Threads like this actually make me appreciate the simplicity of just wanting to turn on my amp and play guitar. 

Best of luck in your endeavors, OP... whatever they are.


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## Hoss632 (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> I have SFTY3 instrumentals installed unfortunately those manufacturers you listed don't make slanted pickups, yes I considered them


The moderns, Tosin abasi, Steph Carpenter, and KSE fishman's are compatible with Multi-scale guitars since they use bar magnets instead of pole pieces. That's straight from Fishman's website.


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## Artem (Feb 15, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> The moderns, Tosin abasi, Steph Carpenter, and KSE fishman's are compatible with Multi-scale guitars since they use bar magnets instead of pole pieces. That's straight from Fishman's website.


these are great options, but unfortunately they are not made in the passive forms


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## ikarus (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> these are great options, but unfortunately they are not made in the passive forms



also I don't think that they are readable enough.


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## Pietjepieter (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> these are great options, but unfortunately they are not made in the passive forms


Strange there not made in passive...? Maybe it is because it are active pick ups? who knows


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## kmanick (Feb 15, 2022)

11 pages? wow


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## Artem (Feb 15, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> Strange there not made in passive...? Maybe it is because it are active pick ups? who knows


Fishman also have passive pickups in passive forms, but they don't make slanted pickups. Fishman Modern also have two modes, passive and active. And I think not always active pickups are made in the form of soapbar . 

I have seen active pickups in the usual passive version from Russian boutique manufacturers, but in any case I do not have a battery compartment.


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## bostjan (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> Fishman also have passive pickups in passive forms, but they don't make slanted pickups. Fishman Modern also have two modes, passive and active. And I think not always active pickups are made in the form of soapbar .
> 
> I have seen active pickups in the usual passive version from Russian boutique manufacturers, but in any case I do not have a battery compartment.


Russian boutique manufacturers?

You need to get some Fokin pickups. Just for the Fokin name. Maybe, if you like the Fokin tone, you can do a Fokin demo for those Fokin guys:



https://www.fokinpickups.com/



I honestly don't know what those Fokin things sound like but I love their Fokin name, if you know what I mean.


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## Artem (Feb 15, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Russian boutique manufacturers?
> 
> You need to get some Fokin pickups. Just for the Fokin name. Maybe, if you like the Fokin tone, you can do a Fokin demo for those Fokin guys:
> 
> ...



there are a lot of reviews of these pickups on youtube, they really sound good, but Ilya Fokin himself can’t cope with a lot of orders, he answers a message once a month, I think that this is a good option . I still wait in line. he can also make an exact copy bkp pikups on special order 
Fokin custom Aftermath copy for example


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> these are great options, but unfortunately they are not made in the passive forms



I prefer my pickups in the present perfect forms


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## fantom (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> there are a lot of reviews of these pickups on youtube, they really sound good, but Ilya Fokin himself can’t cope with a lot of orders, he answers a message once a month, I think that this is a good option . I still wait in line. he can also make an exact copy bkp pikups on special order
> Fokin custom Aftermath copy for example



Doesn't surprise me in the least that someone screaming that korina isn't "balanced" in the mix would want to get an BKP Aftermath clone. That pickup is the most imbalanced pickup I've ever played. I assume you would come back here complaining about upper mid resonances that you can't eq out.


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## budda (Feb 15, 2022)

Just Buy a 5150 and Prestige /thread. (because my previous /thread answers didn't work either).


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## Artem (Feb 15, 2022)

fantom said:


> Doesn't surprise me in the least that someone screaming that korina isn't "balanced" in the mix would want to get an BKP Aftermath clone. That pickup is the most imbalanced pickup I've ever played. I assume you would come back here complaining about upper mid resonances that you can't eq out.


As far as I know, this pickup is more suitable for dense and deaf woods, maybe you didn’t have a balance just because of the wood, but for my case, I think it should fit. In any case, if you order a copy, it will cost 3 times cheaper than the original, at least this money will not be pitty as if you ordered the original and it did not suit you. 
I also think that nailbomb will work well with my wood


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## nickgray (Feb 15, 2022)

I swear, Vejichan seems like a perfectly sane and reasonable person right about now.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 15, 2022)

Did this dude just say deaf woods? 

And please don't nailbomb your wood, man. Sounds painful.


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## fantom (Feb 15, 2022)

Artem said:


> As far as I know, this pickup is more suitable for dense and deaf woods, maybe you didn’t have a balance just because of the wood, but for my case, I think it should fit. In any case, if you order a copy, it will cost 3 times cheaper than the original, at least this money will not be pitty as if you ordered the original and it did not suit you.
> I also think that nailbomb will work well with my wood


Dude, did you just say Korina is a deaf wood? How many luthiers helped you come to that conclusion?

I have no problems with you saving money and buying a Fokkin. I'm just saying you won't get a balanced tone from an Aftermath. My advice here, if you can get someone to custom wind a pickup and clone whatever you want, why not just ask the guy to make something that matches the tonal character you keep repeating in this thread. Hell, you can just link him this thread, and I'm sure he'll fix your dead wood problem.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 15, 2022)

fantom said:


> Dude, did you just say Korina is a deaf wood? How many luthiers helped you come to that conclusion?
> 
> I have no problems with you saving money and buying a Fokkin. I'm just saying you won't get a balanced tone from an Aftermath. My advice here, if you can get someone to custom wind a pickup and clone whatever you want, why not just ask the guy to make something that matches the tonal character you keep repeating in this thread. Hell, you can just link him this thread, and I'm sure he'll fix your dead wood problem.



Tonal characteristics that no one knows because dude setup to record and mix won’t send di’s.


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## High Plains Drifter (Feb 15, 2022)

Need to talk to this dude...


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## Albake21 (Feb 16, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> Tonal characteristics that no one knows because dude setup to record and mix won’t send di’s.


This is why I think this dude may be trolling. Outside of the jokes, this thread has genuinely offered help in pretty much every single way possible, yet here we still are. 

@Artem If we can get a DI, we can 100% help out because we actually have a reference to go off of. Without it, we're just blindly throwing things out there. One persons experience with a certain body wood can and will be a completely different experience. If you can't accept this and meet us halfway with a DI, then this thread should be closed. We have offered everything we can at this point.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Albake21 said:


> This is why I think this dude may be trolling. Outside of the jokes, this thread has genuinely offered help in pretty much every single way possible, yet here we still are.
> 
> @Artem If we can get a DI, we can 100% help out because we actually have a reference to go off of. Without it, we're just blindly throwing things out there. One persons experience with a certain body wood can and will be a completely different experience. If you can't accept this and meet us halfway with a DI, then this thread should be closed. We have offered everything we can at this point.


I think there are too many nuances in this situation, but I'm not saying that my guitar is unsuitable for getting a good sound, it just doesn't suit my tasks. Yes, the guitar will sound good in any case and, perhaps, in your opinion it will be similar to the references, but it will be separate from the mix, which does not make sense at all


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## CanserDYI (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think there are too many nuances in this situation, but I'm not saying that my guitar is unsuitable for getting a good sound, it just doesn't suit my tasks. Yes, the guitar will sound good in any case and, perhaps, in your opinion it will be similar to the references, but it will be separate from the mix, which does not make sense at all


I'm still not understanding how this isnt just solved by a fucking EQ?

We have got 12 pages of nonsense that was solved with the simplest tool out there, I'm baffled.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Albake21 said:


> This is why I think this dude may be trolling. Outside of the jokes, this thread has genuinely offered help in pretty much every single way possible, yet here we still are.
> 
> @Artem If we can get a DI, we can 100% help out because we actually have a reference to go off of. Without it, we're just blindly throwing things out there. One persons experience with a certain body wood can and will be a completely different experience. If you can't accept this and meet us halfway with a DI, then this thread should be closed. We have offered everything we can at this point.


And what kind of help are we talking about, my friend, is it all things like an equalizer, wires, position and height of the strings, and so on? Are you seriously? I'm not asking for help getting the sound, it doesn't make sense if you don't have a mix, I just wanted to know the experience of people who have found good pickup options in combination with this tree, while still getting a clear sound, like what I wrote about earlier


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I'm still not understanding how this isnt just solved by a fucking EQ?
> 
> We have got 12 pages of nonsense that was solved with the simplest tool out there, I'm baffled.


I'll try to explain. Now I'm experimenting with a very low tuning like drop C1, D1, if in the standard tuning the resonances in the low frequencies are easy to remove, then in my case this is only possible due to valuable frequencies, which causes the mix to suffer. But with exactly the same manipulations with another instrument like m 80 m, such difficulties do not arise and everything can be adjusted with your favorite equalizer or dynamic compressor.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 16, 2022)

Yep this is nonsense, I'm hiding all content from you now, I just can't anymore.


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## StevenC (Feb 16, 2022)

I think we need to make a sticky thread every year where we can nominate threads for Thread of the Year. Then in December we whittle it down to just a handful and then have a vote in early January.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 16, 2022)

I swear to fuck if OP hasn't flooded vejichan's inbox with questions I'm going to be so fucking disappointed.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I'm still not understanding how this isnt just solved by a fucking EQ?
> 
> We have got 12 pages of nonsense that was solved with the simplest tool out there, I'm baffled.


But that's not the point of the question, I'm just waiting for feedback from people who have long noticed these problems with my wood and solved this issue by replacing the pickups with more balanced ones. I know for sure that there are such people here, because I read similar discussions and therefore came here. Everything seems to be simple? I don't understand why it's already 12 pages.


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## nickgray (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> who have long noticed these problems with my wood



Are we still talking about guitars here?


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## budda (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> But that's not the point of the question, I'm just waiting for feedback from people who have long noticed these problems with my wood and solved this issue by replacing the pickups with more balanced ones. I know for sure that there are such people here, because I read similar discussions and therefore came here. Everything seems to be simple? I don't understand why it's already 12 pages.


13 pages in, they arent coming. Your question was answered early on.


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## StevenC (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> But that's not the point of the question, I'm just waiting for feedback from people who have long noticed these problems with my wood and solved this issue by replacing the pickups with more balanced ones. I know for sure that there are such people here, because I read similar discussions and therefore came here. Everything seems to be simple? I don't understand why it's already 12 pages.


Look Artem, it's been almost a week. People with black limba guitars have commented in here with what they use and you haven't bought any pickups. The fact of the matter is you won't find the right pickups unless you buy some pickups. There's a lot that goes into guitar tone, from the wood and components to the hands playing it. 

There's really only two options here. Either you don't like the pickups and need to change them, or you don't like the guitar and need to change it. Pick one and make progress towards it, buying pickups is probably cheaper so I recommend that one. Maybe try Aftermaths or Lundgren. People who don't like M series Lundgrens often get on better with Black Heavens. Maybe that would work better with limba. 

Here's some more advice for free. I'm a big Tosin Abasi fan and liked his tone when he was using his TAM100. I have one of those guitars and I'm going to change the pickups because I don't like how they sound. All the clips and DIs aren't going to change how the guitar sounds when you play it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 16, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Are we still talking about guitars here?



Have him show it to @ArtDecade, he's an expert.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Have him show it to @ArtDecade, he's an expert.



#FreeRatings


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 16, 2022)

Call me crazy but reading all this I sympathize with the dude a bit. There's a clear language barrier, even if it's minor and yeah we can meme and pick it apart like we usually do, but OP wants something and a majority of us clearly aren't delivering.

He wants DI's and experiences of people who:
1) Own a Black Limba bodied ERG
2) Can record their own DI
3) Send him those DI's

All so he can compare the differences and make his own call on what pickup would suit his guitar based on other people's pickup choice.

 I know there's a million variables and problems with the ask, but I also don't see what all the fuss is about.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Look Artem, it's been almost a week. People with black limba guitars have commented in here with what they use and you haven't bought any pickups. The fact of the matter is you won't find the right pickups unless you buy some pickups. There's a lot that goes into guitar tone, from the wood and components to the hands playing it.
> 
> There's really only two options here. Either you don't like the pickups and need to change them, or you don't like the guitar and need to change it. Pick one and make progress towards it, buying pickups is probably cheaper so I recommend that one. Maybe try Aftermaths or Lundgren. People who don't like M series Lundgrens often get on better with Black Heavens. Maybe that would work better with limba.
> 
> Here's some more advice for free. I'm a big Tosin Abasi fan and liked his tone when he was using his TAM100. I have one of those guitars and I'm going to change the pickups because I don't like how they sound. All the clips and DIs aren't going to change how the guitar sounds when you play it.



I perfectly understand you, but I don’t understand why everyone participates in the discussion if they are tired of it? I just answer the questions that come

Just communication, why does it bother everyone? How should I close a topic?


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Call me crazy but reading all this I sympathize with the dude a bit. There's a clear language barrier, even if it's minor and yeah we can meme and pick it apart like we usually do, but OP wants something and a majority of us clearly aren't delivering.
> 
> He wants DI's and experiences of people who:
> 1) Own a Black Limba bodied ERG
> ...


I think you understand what I was trying to say all 13 pages


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## nickgray (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> but I also don't see what all the fuss is about.



Because he's not actually looking for advice, he's looking to have his quirky beliefs validated. How do normal people ask for production advice on forums? You post your most recent, most relevant audio files to the topic at hand, and you try out the answers that people throw at you. In this case, OP should've provided both DIs of his black limba guitar, as well as the mix that uses this guitar where he believes there's a problem. When people then tell him to stop worrying about nonsense like tonewood and look into dynamic EQs and muiltiband compressors (that would be my first step) to solve the issue (as well as EQing the DI, trying different IRs, fiddling with amp modeling... tons of options to choose from), OP should actually goddamn try the advice and post the results (even if in OPs opinion they don't improve things).

What does OP do? What have we learned? OP has 7 guitars. OP has extensive studio experience. OP has access to top producers who compliment him on his mixes. OP doesn't even entertain the idea that he might be every so slightly misguided in his beliefs that tonewood has a certain degree of importance to guitar's tone. OP doesn't want to provide DIs of his guitar or any relevant mixes where we can at least try to hear the "resonance" problem, but at the same time OP wants other people to send him very specific DIs. OP is entirely dismissive of any suggestions and advice that does not align with his personal beliefs. Need I continue?


----------



## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Call me crazy but reading all this I sympathize with the dude a bit. There's a clear language barrier, even if it's minor and yeah we can meme and pick it apart like we usually do, but OP wants something and a majority of us clearly aren't delivering.
> 
> He wants DI's and experiences of people who:
> 1) Own a Black Limba bodied ERG
> ...


I can reamp in a lot of ways, it doesn't have to be ax fx, it's not that important. And I think that all the noise due to the incorrectly worded title of the topic and the initial question all led to tree discussions. Yes, probably the language barrier played an important role here.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Because he's not actually looking for advice, he's looking to have his quirky beliefs validated. How do normal people ask for production advice on forums? You post your most recent, most relevant audio files to the topic at hand, and you try out the answers that people throw at you. In this case, OP should've provided both DIs of his black limba guitar, as well as the mix that uses this guitar where he believes there's a problem. When people then tell him to stop worrying about nonsense like tonewood and look into dynamic EQs and muiltiband compressors (that would be my first step) to solve the issue (as well as EQing the DI, trying different IRs, fiddling with amp modeling... tons of options to choose from), OP should actually goddamn try the advice and post the results (even if in OPs opinion they don't improve things).
> 
> What does OP do? What have we learned? OP has 7 guitars. OP has extensive studio experience. OP has access to top producers who compliment him on his mixes. OP doesn't even entertain the idea that he might be every so slightly misguided in his beliefs that tonewood has a certain degree of importance to guitar's tone. OP doesn't want to provide DIs of his guitar or any relevant mixes where we can at least try to hear the "resonance" problem, but at the same time OP wants other people to send him very specific DIs. OP is entirely dismissive of any suggestions and advice that does not align with his personal beliefs. Need I continue?


What if I believe that I am able to solve the problem of my mixes myself and also did not see a single confirmation of the presence of a competent sound engineer here, I asked to send my work. Then what's the point of sending my DIs? Or do you think I'm so stupid that I don't know how to use an equalizer and a compressor with many years of studio experience?


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Because he's not actually looking for advice, he's looking to have his quirky beliefs validated. How do normal people ask for production advice on forums? You post your most recent, most relevant audio files to the topic at hand, and you try out the answers that people throw at you. In this case, OP should've provided both DIs of his black limba guitar, as well as the mix that uses this guitar where he believes there's a problem. When people then tell him to stop worrying about nonsense like tonewood and look into dynamic EQs and muiltiband compressors (that would be my first step) to solve the issue (as well as EQing the DI, trying different IRs, fiddling with amp modeling... tons of options to choose from), OP should actually goddamn try the advice and post the results (even if in OPs opinion they don't improve things).
> 
> What does OP do? What have we learned? OP has 7 guitars. OP has extensive studio experience. OP has access to top producers who compliment him on his mixes. OP doesn't even entertain the idea that he might be every so slightly misguided in his beliefs that tonewood has a certain degree of importance to guitar's tone. OP doesn't want to provide DIs of his guitar or any relevant mixes where we can at least try to hear the "resonance" problem, but at the same time OP wants other people to send him very specific DIs. OP is entirely dismissive of any suggestions and advice that does not align with his personal beliefs. Need I continue?


I have already explained several times that you do not even understand what structure my mix has and there is no point in taking the guitar sound out of context.


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## nickgray (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I believe that I am able to solve the problem of my mixes myself





Artem said:


> did not see a single confirmation of the presence of a competent sound engineer here





Artem said:


> Then what's the point of sending my DIs?





Artem said:


> many years of studio experience?



You see, this is why people are making fun of you and of this thread. We tried to stay on topic, but you're just digging your own grave here pretty much.


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## dmlinger (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> did not see a single confirmation of the presence of a competent sound engineer here


I have a Bachelors Degree in Audio Engineering. Disclaimer: I haven't professionally used my degree in 15 years, however, I've worked with a lot of artists in Nashville that would be considered some of the most famous musicians in the world. Taylor Swift comes to mind. After I left that studio, I went on to run front of house for NASCAR for their live race events. 

I think this thread is utterly stupid.


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## Crungy (Feb 16, 2022)

Sounds like a competent engineer to me


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> do you think I'm so stupid that I don't know how to use an equalizer and a compressor with many years of studio experience?


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## dmlinger (Feb 16, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Sounds like a competent engineer to me


For the record, I cringed at typing that response. 

Have we even talked about the logistics of swapping out the pickups? They are Kiesel's multiscale 8 string, which doesn't have a direct replacement in the market, does it? If that's the case, the only pickup swap option would be a rewind unless I'm mistaken. 

I still vote for selling the Kiesel and getting something else.


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## StevenC (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I perfectly understand you, but I don’t understand why everyone participates in the discussion if they are tired of it? I just answer the questions that come
> 
> Just communication, why does it bother everyone? How should I close a topic?


It bothers people because you say things like this:

"I like Periphery's guitar tone"
"Basswood guitars sound bad"
"Misha uses basswood guitars?"

Or

"Why would you use different guitars for doubletracking?" when the thickening effect comes from the differences in the tracks. 

Which, when trying to have a serious conversation about guitar tone and wood's relevance to it, avers a deep level of ignorance.


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## sleewell (Feb 16, 2022)

black limba is a truly beautiful piece of wood for a guitar. I think this thread proves more than anything that we shouldn't just be handing it out to any tom, dick or harry that wants to buy it.


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## Crungy (Feb 16, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> For the record, I cringed at typing that response.
> 
> Have we even talked about the logistics of swapping out the pickups? They are Kiesel's multiscale 8 string, which doesn't have a direct replacement in the market, does it? If that's the case, the only pickup swap option would be a rewind unless I'm mistaken.
> 
> I still vote for selling the Kiesel and getting something else.


I didn't think it was cringe. I think it had to be done as this thread has somehow kept going and going.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem have you tried swapping the neck and bridge pickups?

The neck pickup likely has less output and less lows and low-mids. There's a strong possibility that putting the neck pickup in the bridge position will fix, or at least partially remedy the issue.

Does the guitar have a coil-tap? If it does, does the problematic mid-range go away when in 'single-coil/tapped' mode?


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Artem have you tried swapping the neck and bridge pickups?
> 
> The neck pickup likely has less output and less lows and low-mids. There's a strong possibility that putting the neck pickup in the bridge position will fix, or at least partially remedy the issue.
> 
> Does the guitar have a coil-tap? If it does, does the problematic mid-range go away when in 'single-coil/tapped' mode?


I haven't tried doing this, oh I've been thinking about this way of solving a similar problem, I guess I don't really like the nature of the pickups, so I started looking for an alternative to them


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## Themistocles (Feb 16, 2022)

My vader 7 has a black limba neck and sides... Holdsworth pickups are very articulate and can do do pretty much anything. Consider the M12 in the bridge if you want higher output.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Artem have you tried swapping the neck and bridge pickups?
> 
> The neck pickup likely has less output and less lows and low-mids. There's a strong possibility that putting the neck pickup in the bridge position will fix, or at least partially remedy the issue.
> 
> Does the guitar have a coil-tap? If it does, does the problematic mid-range go away when in 'single-coil/tapped' mode?


I don't think I've considered kiesel pickups at all, I hear mostly negative reviews about them. Do you have any demos or studio records with your guitar?


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## fantom (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I'll try to explain. Now I'm experimenting with a very low tuning like drop C1, D1, if in the standard tuning the resonances in the low frequencies are easy to remove, then in my case this is only possible due to valuable frequencies, which causes the mix to suffer. But with exactly the same manipulations with another instrument like m 80 m, such difficulties do not arise and everything can be adjusted with your favorite equalizer or dynamic compressor.



So it sounds fine except your tuning is shifting your fundamental to barely audible and as low as a 5 string bass. The result is your low mids, which are usually dominated by low order harmonic frequencies, are now essentially noise.


Jonathan20022 said:


> Call me crazy but reading all this I sympathize with the dude a bit. There's a clear language barrier, even if it's minor and yeah we can meme and pick it apart like we usually do, but OP wants something and a majority of us clearly aren't delivering.
> 
> He wants DI's and experiences of people who:
> 1) Own a Black Limba bodied ERG
> ...



I disagree. This isn't a language issue. The dude has been unreasonable and condescending since the first page. That isn't a language issue, that's a personality thing. He hasn't tried to turn off his elitist attitude. He has been assuming people who reply aren't qualified and effectively disregarding their input and asking them to do him a favor all while being a jerk about it.

Also, he literally said he is experimenting with C1 tuning and has no problems with normal tunings. He isn't just asking people with korina ERGs to send a DI track. He is expecting people to send tracks emphasizing unspecified playing style and note ranges. By time he said specifically he wants C1, I would say most people would need to restring and setup their instrument to do him a favor that he isn't even being gracious about. And afaik, he still hasn't specified what type of playing should be in the DI track.

He's intentionally being secretive and withholding information from people because he thinks the people here aren't qualified to help him. If I was being *paid* to do this, I would break this contract and refund him. He expects people to do it for free...


nickgray said:


> Because he's not actually looking for advice, he's looking to have his quirky beliefs validated


This


StevenC said:


> when the thickening effect comes from the differences in the tracks


Ironically, he said that "experienced engineers require the same guitar and guitar player to make things tight." Or some shit like that. Every experienced engineer I have ever worked with literally has people at minimum change the amp settings to give width to the mix. And tech death seems to excel at having 2 different guitar players on 2 different guitars play tight.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I haven't tried doing this, oh I've been thinking about this way of solving a similar problem, I guess I don't really like the nature of the pickups, so I started looking for an alternative to them


I get that. I think doing the swap is potentially a good option for you, and it is by far one of the cheapest options. Even as a temporary fix until you find something more 'permanent'.


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## Albake21 (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think there are too many nuances in this situation, but I'm not saying that my guitar is unsuitable for getting a good sound, it just doesn't suit my tasks. Yes, the guitar will sound good in any case and, perhaps, in your opinion it will be similar to the references, but it will be separate from the mix, which does not make sense at all


So we have SOMETHING to reference. You have to give us something, just anything to give a comparison. Someone else giving their DI won't help you in the long run due to all of the nuances that 14 pages of worth has already been given to you. The chances of finding someone here who has the same body wood, same guitar, same hardware, same picks, same strings, same picking technique to create a DI for you is incredibly slim.

Like others have said, at this point you have to get any other set of pickups in there so you can have a reference to go off of. You have no idea how your guitar actually sounds until you put in another set of pups and compare. From there, you can then know where to go from your original set of pickups. Otherwise, ditch the guitar.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)

Albake21 said:


> The chances of finding someone here who has the same body wood, same guitar, same hardware, same picks, same strings, same picking technique to create a DI for you is incredibly slim.


I have the same body wood, same guitar, same hardware, same picks, same strings, and same picking technique. I just don't want to help him because I'm an adequate comet.


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## wheresthefbomb (Feb 16, 2022)

Is your truss rod cover black limba? #1 source of shitty tone ime is cheap truss rod covers


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)

I always try to go with Brazilian rosewood selector switch caps, because they have the best tones. And also, because I am trying to destroy the rain-forests. I hear limba makes a good cap as well.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

fantom said:


> So it sounds fine except your tuning is shifting your fundamental to barely audible and as low as a 5 string bass. The result is your low mids, which are usually dominated by low order harmonic frequencies, are now essentially noise.
> 
> 
> I disagree. This isn't a language issue. The dude has been unreasonable and condescending since the first page. That isn't a language issue, that's a personality thing. He hasn't tried to turn off his elitist attitude. He has been assuming people who reply aren't qualified and effectively disregarding their input and asking them to do him a favor all while being a jerk about it.
> ...


Yes, I understand this perfectly, but in the case of another guitar, everything sounds much better and there are no such pronounced resonances.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> Yes, I understand this perfectly, but in the case of another guitar, everything sounds much better and there are no such pronounced resonances.


What the fuck are you even talking about, what did this have to do with the quote? This is what I get for clicking "show hidden content" god I'm the fucking worst.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

fantom said:


> So it sounds fine except your tuning is shifting your fundamental to barely audible and as low as a 5 string bass. The result is your low mids, which are usually dominated by low order harmonic frequencies, are now essentially noise.
> 
> 
> I disagree. This isn't a language issue. The dude has been unreasonable and condescending since the first page. That isn't a language issue, that's a personality thing. He hasn't tried to turn off his elitist attitude. He has been assuming people who reply aren't qualified and effectively disregarding their input and asking them to do him a favor all while being a jerk about it.
> ...


I see you've done a lot of research on me. I'm not asking anyone to tune a guitar in C1 and send me a DI. And I think if from the very beginning of the conversation people understood the essence of the matter, and did not argue with me about wood and sound engineering, arrogantly mocking it, then I would not have behaved like that. Do you always respond appropriately to stupid jokes addressed to you?


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## StevenC (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> Yes, I understand this perfectly, but in the case of another guitar, everything sounds much better and there are no such pronounced resonances.


So, what you're saying is you don't like how this guitar sounds?


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)




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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> I get that. I think doing the swap is potentially a good option for you, and it is by far one of the cheapest options. Even as a temporary fix until you find something more 'permanent'.


I've read about kiesel pickups, I think a lot of people are talking about lithium pickups being good in low tunings, yes I agree the price is very good


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Albake21 said:


> So we have SOMETHING to reference. You have to give us something, just anything to give a comparison. Someone else giving their DI won't help you in the long run due to all of the nuances that 14 pages of worth has already been given to you. The chances of finding someone here who has the same body wood, same guitar, same hardware, same picks, same strings, same picking technique to create a DI for you is incredibly slim.
> 
> Like others have said, at this point you have to get any other set of pickups in there so you can have a reference to go off of. You have no idea how your guitar actually sounds until you put in another set of pups and compare. From there, you can then know where to go from your original set of pickups. Otherwise, ditch the guitar.


Well, actually, I'm here just to find out which pickups I should choose 
I think I made some conclusions, but have not yet decided specifically


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

StevenC said:


> So, what you're saying is you don't like how this guitar sounds?


I see potential in this guitar, but I don't like some of the artifacts that my pickups convey, plus the low-mid resonances.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 16, 2022)




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## nickgray (Feb 16, 2022)




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## Albake21 (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm done... good luck to anyone else who takes a stab at it


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## wheresthefbomb (Feb 16, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I always try to go with Brazilian rosewood selector switch caps, because they have the best tones. And also, because I am trying to destroy the rain-forests. I hear limba makes a good cap as well.



Panda toe bones make perfect selector switch caps.


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## fantom (Feb 16, 2022)

Artem said:


> I see you've done a lot of research on me. I'm not asking anyone to tune a guitar in C1 and send me a DI. And I think if from the very beginning of the conversation people understood the essence of the matter, and did not argue with me about wood and sound engineering, arrogantly mocking it, then I would not have behaved like that. Do you always respond appropriately to stupid jokes addressed to you?


You were behaving like that before I wrote a single post here. My posts here have been calling out your own arrogance. At least vejichan was legitimately trying to understand what people were saying. You are.openly condescending and disregarding what people are saying.

You are probably right. A lot of people in this thread don't have the level of expertise that you were expecting. But your condescending attitude is visible to the people who have that expertise. You kept using appeal to authority to show how much better you are than people here, yet when I asked you to either talk to professional sound engineers or a pickup manufacturer, you conveniently stayed quiet. When I literally told you that the aftermath was one of the worst pickups for balance, you pretty much disregarded that advice. But apparently those are stupid jokes now?

If I lived near you, I'd let you take the aftermath out of my skervesen just to end this discussion. Would give me a reason to finally replace with something that doesn't sound like a midrange honk.


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 16, 2022)

fantom said:


> I disagree. This isn't a language issue. The dude has been unreasonable and condescending since the first page. That isn't a language issue, that's a personality thing. He hasn't tried to turn off his elitist attitude. He has been assuming people who reply aren't qualified and effectively disregarding their input and asking them to do him a favor all while being a jerk about it.
> 
> Also, he literally said he is experimenting with C1 tuning and has no problems with normal tunings. He isn't just asking people with korina ERGs to send a DI track. He is expecting people to send tracks emphasizing unspecified playing style and note ranges. By time he said specifically he wants C1, I would say most people would need to restring and setup their instrument to do him a favor that he isn't even being gracious about. And afaik, he still hasn't specified what type of playing should be in the DI track.
> 
> He's intentionally being secretive and withholding information from people because he thinks the people here aren't qualified to help him. If I was being *paid* to do this, I would break this contract and refund him. He expects people to do it for free...


I think you're being *extremely *uncharitable to him to be fair. 

I read the thread from the beginning (And I acknowledged already that the ask has countless variables and problems with his ask) but even I can ascertain his original question regardless of it being grammatically broken.



Artem said:


> Hello everyone. I want to change the pickups on my 8-string Kiesel from Black limba (korina) , I want to achieve a clean balanced sound without resonances in the lower middle. Ideally, you want to sound like vildhjarta (ash + lundgren m7, 8) or alder with bkp juggernauts or ragnarok, in general progressive, dense and readable. I listened to different combinations of limba and lundgren m7, bkp ragnarock, juggernaut, still a lot of mids and it doesn’t sound so clean. Maybe someone had an experiment with this tree and someone found a solution?



He has a Black Limba Kiesel, he doesn't like it's tone. He believes the wood choice contributes to the unfavorable parts of the sound he wants to fix, so he wants to change the pickups to make the best out of a guitar he is stuck with (International Kiesel purchase) and bring it closer to a sound he does like (Vildhjarta/Lundgrens/Ash/Alder/Juggs/Rags).

It sounds like he wants a djent guitar tone that reins the lower mids back. There is a *clear *language issue even if you disagree with me, it's fucking obvious.

This is no different to the vendor BKP thread, "Hey Zimbloth, I have an ESP Horizon with a Maple Neck/Mahogany body, I listen to hardcore and metalcore. What pickups would sound best in this?" reference thread

He isn't asking if tonewood is a factor, he isn't asking for proof why he's on the wrong path to fixing his problems. Yet every single reply early on is summed down to:
1) Tonewood isn't the problem
2) Sell the guitar and just buy another one if it sounds bad
3) Just swap the pickups and try others

That isn't helpful advice, and anyone would feel frustrated getting told that over and over. I don't frequent the forums as much as I used to, but are we just like militant assholes to anyone who thinks their mahogany guitars are darker than their ash/alder ones now? Some people believe in tonewoods and others don't, if you want to basically forcibly make him understand that tonewood isn't the problem it obviously didn't work. So maybe just provide his ask if you can and don't feel obliged to respond to the thread if you don't want to?

I have two guitars with Black Limba and different pickups, I could either toss him a recommendation if I have one or record him a DI signal and send it his way for him to evaluate. It just feels like this snowballed into a pile on some dude asking for some pretty normal advice, get joked on by 3 - 4 people, he responds that he knows what he's doing but wants to hear what pickups people use in the BL guitars, but everyone takes it as him being cocky even though he needs help 

It had some funny moments, but some of you guys need to learn to walk away from unproductive conversations.


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## fantom (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I think you're being *extremely *uncharitable to him to be fair.
> 
> I read the thread from the beginning (And I acknowledged already that the ask has countless variables and problems with his ask) but even I can ascertain his original question regardless of it being grammatically broken.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Appreciate the impartial feedback.


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## Artem (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I think you're being *extremely *uncharitable to him to be fair.
> 
> I read the thread from the beginning (And I acknowledged already that the ask has countless variables and problems with his ask) but even I can ascertain his original question regardless of it being grammatically broken.
> 
> ...


Damn bro, you're just a beam of light in the dark. I have already begun to believe that I am a crazy creepy and inadequate dude


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## Emperoff (Feb 16, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I think you're being *extremely *uncharitable to him to be fair.
> 
> I read the thread from the beginning (And I acknowledged already that the ask has countless variables and problems with his ask) but even I can ascertain his original question regardless of it being grammatically broken.
> 
> ...



That's your take, and it's a very valid one.

My take is: If you open a thread explaining a so-called problem, and 200 people tell you the problem lies elsewhere so you can put your efforts where they really matter, but you blatantly ignore them all (and keep on going on for 15 pages) until you find a *single person* (you) that says what you want to hear, then you're doing something wrong.


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## budda (Feb 16, 2022)

Dude wants 30” scale tone from a shorter scale guitar, should sell said guitar for another 30” scale.


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## jwade (Feb 17, 2022)

Man, def one of the better trainwrecks we’ve had in a good while. 

But, I do have a question for the OP. Have you tried different (lower or higher value) potentiometers or capacitors? It’s a nice cheap way to alter your output slightly without going quite as far as buying new pickups.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 17, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> He has a Black Limba Kiesel, he doesn't like it's tone. He believes the wood choice contributes to the unfavorable parts of the sound he wants to fix, so he wants to change the pickups to make the best out of a guitar he is stuck with (International Kiesel purchase) and bring it closer to a sound he does like (Vildhjarta/Lundgrens/Ash/Alder/Juggs/Rags).
> 
> It sounds like he wants a djent guitar tone that reins the lower mids back. There is a *clear *language issue even if you disagree with me, it's fucking obvious.
> 
> ...


1) How helpful is it to enable the belief that wood species is that important, especially in a mix? I posted a video a few pages ago where Jake Bowen explicitly says that wood species were never taken into account when designing his Titan set. I don't think the people at DiMarzio are unprofessional to the extent of completely disregarding wood species if it were that key to amplified guitar tone, especially for this kind of music. Here is the link again because IIRC a Periphery-ish tone is what OP is after.


2) But let's assume tonewood is important for a second. How can we even help OP find a pickup set that would EQ out the frequencies that are bothering him based on the minimal guidance he has provided? A few people have asked for DIs or sound clips in order to give him the best possible advice but OP has considered that pointless. Yet he has asked owners of black limba guitars to share their DIs with him even though that introduces so many more variables than if he shared his own with us. Something doesn't add up here so I can see why some people got a bit pissed.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 17, 2022)

Here are the DIs from my Carillion 7(First file was wrong so this is the correct zip file):








Carillion DIs


MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.



www.mediafire.com





It's a multiscale 25.5-26.25" tuned to B standard with 9-44 + 59 D'addario strings recorded through an Apollo Twin Interface(48hz and 24bit). The pickups are slanted Lundgren M7s with Alnico V magnets instead of the ceramic, one 550k volume, no tone control. Bridge pickup is 4mm from the strings and the neck is 3mm, bridge pickup is closer to the bridge than most production guitars with an extra few degrees of slant towards the bass side. Action is about 1.8mm on the 12th fret bass side and 1.5mm on the treble side. Very little fret buzz. I pick hard and use down picking for nearly everything with a 1mm Dunlop plectrum. These aren't the cleanest DI tracks, I've learned a lot since recording this song but I don't want to share my newer DIs with this guitar until I've released the music.

Body is Black Limba with a quilt maple top. Neck is 5 piece rosewood and maple with an Ebony fingerboard. In my opinion the majority of this guitars tone comes from the Lundgren pickups, bolt-on neck joint and the extra .75" on the low B(compared to a 25,5"). ABm single string saddles, stainless steel jescar frets, TUSQ Bone nut I think and guitar has an oil finish. Thats pretty much everything that could have an effect on the tone so how you compare the to your Kiesel is up to you.


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## IwantTacos (Feb 17, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Here are the DIs from my Carillion 7(First file was wrong so this is the correct zip file):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



over under on this guy coming back and telling you your di is terrible


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 17, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> 1) How helpful is it to enable the belief that wood species is that important, especially in a mix? I posted a video a few pages ago where Jake Bowen explicitly says that wood species were never taken into account when designing his Titan set. I don't think the people at DiMarzio are unprofessional to the extent of completely disregarding wood species if it were that key to amplified guitar tone, especially for this kind of music. Here is the link again because IIRC a Periphery-ish tone is what OP is after.
> 
> 
> 2) But let's assume tonewood is important for a second. How can we even help OP find a pickup set that would EQ out the frequencies that are bothering him based on the minimal guidance he has provided? A few people have asked for DIs or sound clips in order to give him the best possible advice but OP has considered that pointless. Yet he has asked owners of black limba guitars to share their DIs with him even though that introduces so many more variables than if he shared his own with us. Something doesn't add up here so I can see why some people got a bit pissed.




1) Because it literally has no bearing on this thread, you're taking a moment to educate where it isn't being asked of you. You're not enabling tonewood believers, you're butting heads voluntarily from the outside view. I don't believe in tonewoods either, (last I gave it any thought, I attributed density and resonance to anything unique to tone) but as far as I'm concerned literally no one asked for a tonewood debate.

He's not replacing his guitar, he's identified what part of the tone he wants to "fix", he's asking which pickups will get him closer and if anyone has any samples for him to listen to before he commits to a pickup purchase.

2) We don't have to, it's not a discussion he even wants to have. But that's fair and I can even understand why people would get pissed. There's quite a few variables and problems with his ask, I mention this in my first reply to the thread. Problem is that other than someone asking him for DI's *several pages into the thread *no one's made an effort to loop back around and maybe resolve his problem.

Trust me, it's a hilarious thread. But I'm not going to sit and pretend both sides haven't completely grinded the dead horse into a fine powder at this point.


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

jwade said:


> Man, def one of the better trainwrecks we’ve had in a good while.
> 
> But, I do have a question for the OP. Have you tried different (lower or higher value) potentiometers or capacitors? It’s a nice cheap way to alter your output slightly without going quite as far as buying new pickups.


No, I have not tried this, but I think that the nature of the pickups itself does not suit me at all and such little things as wires, capacitors and potentiometers will not change the picture much, I'm sure


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> 1) How helpful is it to enable the belief that wood species is that important, especially in a mix? I posted a video a few pages ago where Jake Bowen explicitly says that wood species were never taken into account when designing his Titan set. I don't think the people at DiMarzio are unprofessional to the extent of completely disregarding wood species if it were that key to amplified guitar tone, especially for this kind of music. Here is the link again because IIRC a Periphery-ish tone is what OP is after.
> 
> 
> 2) But let's assume tonewood is important for a second. How can we even help OP find a pickup set that would EQ out the frequencies that are bothering him based on the minimal guidance he has provided? A few people have asked for DIs or sound clips in order to give him the best possible advice but OP has considered that pointless. Yet he has asked owners of black limba guitars to share their DIs with him even though that introduces so many more variables than if he shared his own with us. Something doesn't add up here so I can see why some people got a bit pissed.



For example, I have a mix with ready-made drums exactly repeating vildhjarta's frequencies and corresponding bass. now look, I recorded the same parts on different guitars that I mentioned above. And what do we have? One guitar fits into the mix well without having such critical resonances, and the second does not. Then you cut out the resonances of this guitar or compress it with a compressor (which does not help) and the mix loses coherence due to the fact that the guitar has lost a lot of low frequencies. I think it's not hard to understand right? But at the same time, you can get thousands of other sound options from her, but not for this mix.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Feb 17, 2022)

This thread is still going?


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Here are the DIs from my Carillion 7(First file was wrong so this is the correct zip file):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the detailed info and provided di, my friend, it's very helpful for me. Btw today I listened lundgren black haven (alnico) with black limba I think I was very pleased with what I heard, it is very similar to what I want to get from my guitar
And thank you again bro


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> over under on this guy coming back and telling you your di is terrible


Of course no


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> 1) Because it literally has no bearing on this thread, you're taking a moment to educate where it isn't being asked of you. You're not enabling tonewood believers, you're butting heads voluntarily from the outside view. I don't believe in tonewoods either, (last I gave it any thought, I attributed density and resonance to anything unique to tone) but as far as I'm concerned literally no one asked for a tonewood debate.
> 
> He's not replacing his guitar, he's identified what part of the tone he wants to "fix", he's asking which pickups will get him closer and if anyone has any samples for him to listen to before he commits to a pickup purchase.
> 
> ...


My friend, I think if you showed up 15 pages ago, it could be limited to 1 or 2 pages of discussion.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 17, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> 1) Because it literally has no bearing on this thread, you're taking a moment to educate where it isn't being asked of you. You're not enabling tonewood believers, you're butting heads voluntarily from the outside view. I don't believe in tonewoods either, (last I gave it any thought, I attributed density and resonance to anything unique to tone) but as far as I'm concerned literally no one asked for a tonewood debate.
> 
> He's not replacing his guitar, he's identified what part of the tone he wants to "fix", he's asking which pickups will get him closer and if anyone has any samples for him to listen to before he commits to a pickup purchase.
> 
> ...


Many in this thread believe that tonewood, which is at the centre of OP's question, is only a small part of his problem. Many have recommended things worth looking into before even considering a pickup swap and deeming his pickups unsuitable for black limba, which OP brushed away on the basis of his extensive knowledge -- which also caused some irritation. But I guess my question is, if you believe somebody is misguided, or that their premise isn't 100% sound given the goal they are after, should you refrain from offering advice because that is not what the person is looking to hear? I will concede though that this thread would have ended much sooner had people just spewed pickup names for OP to try out  But would that have been valuable considering all the variables that come into play when tone is in question, and how little OP told us about his problem, especially initially? I don't know. I guess some of us are guilty of trying to help in a way that OP did not want to be helped. But does that make the advice useless to address OP's problem? I'm not sure.


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

Robstonin said:


> Many in this thread believe that tonewood, which is at the centre of OP's question, is only a small part of his problem. Many have recommended things worth looking into before even considering a pickup swap and deeming his pickups unsuitable for black limba, which OP brushed away on the basis of his extensive knowledge -- which also caused some irritation. But I guess my question is, if you believe somebody is misguided, or that their premise isn't 100% sound given the goal they are after, should you refrain from offering advice because that is not what the person is looking to hear? I will concede though that this thread would have ended much sooner had people just spewed pickup names for OP to try out  But would that have been valuable considering all the variables that come into play when tone is in question, and how little OP told us about his problem, especially initially? I don't know. I guess some of us are guilty of trying to help in a way that OP did not want to be helped. But does that make the advice useless to address OP's problem? I'm not sure.


Actually, I didn't think that the topic of the tree is so painful for many people here. In Russia, when discussing such topics, they do not even pay attention to this. Most of the time when I read threads like this, I didn't even see commenters trying to argue about it, even though the theme of the tree was also important in these matters.


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## jwade (Feb 17, 2022)

Artem said:


> No, I have not tried this, but I think that the nature of the pickups itself does not suit me at all and such little things as wires, capacitors and potentiometers will not change the picture much, I'm sure


Changing potentiometers/capacitors can darken or brighten the sound heavily. That isn’t my opinion, it is observable scientific fact that anyone can duplicate. If you aren’t willing to try all of the options for alleviating a problem, why ask in the first place?


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## bostjan (Feb 17, 2022)

It's ss.o, we won't be satisfied until that dead horse is being used for subatomic experiments.

The top three quickest ways to get a thread to derail here is to:

1. Mention tonewood.
2. Bring up politics.
3. Mention designer handbags.

#2 is understandable, but the others are interesting to me.

We could probably sum up the last 16 pages in a few sentences:

OP: "Could I get some DI's from people who have black limba guitars?" 
SSO: "Tonewood is not important. Just get a used prestige and a 5150 and then Just Have Fun with It™." [Memes follow]
OP: "But my studio experience!"
SSO: "LOL!" [More memes]
White knight: "Here are some DI's from my black limba guitar."

SSO keep being SSO.


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

jwade said:


> Changing potentiometers/capacitors can darken or brighten the sound heavily. That isn’t my opinion, it is observable scientific fact that anyone can duplicate. If you aren’t willing to try all of the options for alleviating a problem, why ask in the first place?


I think that I don't really like the pickups themselves, the nature of the sound transmission, I'm looking for a few other characteristics.


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## Robslalaina (Feb 17, 2022)

Artem said:


> For example, I have a mix with ready-made drums exactly repeating vildhjarta's frequencies and corresponding bass. now look, I recorded the same parts on different guitars that I mentioned above. And what do we have? One guitar fits into the mix well without having such critical resonances, and the second does not. Then you cut out the resonances of this guitar or compress it with a compressor (which does not help) and the mix loses coherence due to the fact that the guitar has lost a lot of low frequencies. I think it's not hard to understand right? But at the same time, you can get thousands of other sound options from her, but not for this mix.


What are those frequencies that bother you with the Kiesel exactly? If you give us a frequency range or tell us where the bothersome resonances are, in actual numbers, people could figure out what pickups to recommend to you more easily than with 'ala Vildhjarta' as reference point. Right now all we've got is your perception of what is wrong with how this guitar sounds, and the fact you want it to sound like a heavily processed tone from a record.

I'll double down on my initial advice to look into thinner strings and use higher pot values because those do not just impact treble frequencies contrary to what some believe.

As for everybody's reaction to the tonewood thing and how that differs from what it's like in Russia, the only explanation to this is this is SSO. If you were to ask this on TDPRI the answers you'd get would be just as insane, but from the other end of the spectrum


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## Emperoff (Feb 17, 2022)

Ok, so OP finally got the DIs he wanted... Can we close this thread now ?


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Ok, so OP finally got the DIs he wanted... Can we close this thread now ?


I require 30 pages okay?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Feb 17, 2022)

bostjan said:


> It's ss.o, we won't be satisfied until that dead horse is being used for subatomic experiments.
> 
> The top three quickest ways to get a thread to derail here is to:
> 
> ...


My take is more like:

OP: "Could I get some DI's from people who have black limba guitars?"
SSO: "I think you might be misdiagnosing the problem. If you could provide DI's we could get a better idea of what you're hearing and make an educated suggestion rather than taking shots in the dark."
OP: "No and it's stupid that you would ask. My studio experience [a few batshit insane takes that completely discredit OP] now get out of my thread"
SSO: "memes it is then" [memes]
White knight: "Here are some DI's from my black limba guitar, accompanied by the text equivalent of sticking your tongue out at someone"
SSO and OP: [memes]


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## RiksRiks (Feb 17, 2022)

Artem said:


> I require 30 pages okay?


BTW, I own a Black Limba Ormsby (6 string Goliath) with a set of Aussie pickups. I don't know if that could be useful since the mass difference between a 6 and an 8 is considerable, and even if it was, I have no idea how to record DI's, but I'm willing to do it if it's not too complicated.


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## Artem (Feb 17, 2022)

RiksRiks said:


> BTW, I own a Black Limba Ormsby (6 string Goliath) with a set of Aussie pickups. I don't know if that could be useful since the mass difference between a 6 and an 8 is considerable, and even if it was, I have no idea how to record DI's, but I'm willing to do it if it's not too complicated.


Thanks for your willingness to help. I appreciate it. Simply record a couple of riffs by plugging your guitar directly into the card, making a double track. To get low pitch I can use a pitch shifter, no problem. Do your pickups have any model or name?


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## fantom (Feb 18, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Here are the DIs from my Carillion 7(First file was wrong so this is the correct zip file):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This guitar made the thread with it.



Artem said:


> For example, I have a mix with ready-made drums exactly repeating vildhjarta's frequencies and corresponding bass. now look, I recorded the same parts on different guitars that I mentioned above. And what do we have? One guitar fits into the mix well without having such critical resonances, and the second does not. Then you cut out the resonances of this guitar or compress it with a compressor (which does not help) and the mix loses coherence due to the fact that the guitar has lost a lot of low frequencies. I think it's not hard to understand right? But at the same time, you can get thousands of other sound options from her, but not for this mix.



Did you tweak the signal chain for two different guitars? More curious than anything else.



Artem said:


> Thanks for your willingness to help. I appreciate it. Simply record a couple of riffs by plugging your guitar directly into the card, making a double track. To get low pitch I can use a pitch shifter, no problem. Do your pickups have any model or name?



Please tell me you did not record your Kiesel by directly plugging into a line input instead of a hi-z or di box... I really thought this thread couldn't get weirder. If you have a hi-z input and intended to tell someone to use the hi-z, that's fine. Just saying this could be a factor.


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## Artem (Feb 18, 2022)

fantom said:


> This guitar made the thread with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I record my guitar I using a DI box and a Sommer cable, and axe fx or a focusrite scarlett is used as the card.

And of course when I use different guitars to try out in a mix, I use multiple amps and individual settings for each guitar.


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## dmlinger (Feb 18, 2022)

Artem said:


> I require 30 pages okay?


Gotta give it to you, my friend, this made me laugh! 

You really should reach out to Kiesel to see if they have a pickup that they would recommend. Especially since they are guaranteed to fit your routes.


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## Edika (Feb 19, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Here are the DIs from my Carillion 7(First file was wrong so this is the correct zip file):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all beautiful instrument! I probably missed the NGD for it as I don't remember this beauty!

From all these 16 pages of this thread I think the most shocking thing I found is the fact you have the neck pickup 3mm from the strings! The neck pickup is usually closer to the strings and they always recommend having it further away from the strings to have a more balanced sound and not affect the vibration of the strings. I have it quite a bit further down on most of my guitars and it still sounds louder than the bridge pickup lol. I'm curious to know what benefits you get from having the neck pickup so close to the strings, aside from the obvious boost in volume and more crunchy tone, and if you see any drawbacks from having it further down!


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## budda (Feb 19, 2022)

Artem said:


> Thanks for your willingness to help. I appreciate it. Simply record a couple of riffs by plugging your guitar directly into the card, making a double track. To get low pitch I can use a pitch shifter, no problem. Do your pickups have any model or name?


The harmonic content changes between pitch shifting and actual downtuning, though I dont know by how much. Hopefullly the DI will be an acceptable ballpark.


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## Artem (Feb 19, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> Gotta give it to you, my friend, this made me laugh!
> 
> You really should reach out to Kiesel to see if they have a pickup that they would recommend. Especially since they are guaranteed to fit your routes.


I think I don't really like the character of Kiesel pickups in general, I think that most of the guitar players replace them.
I think I chose lungren, I think it will be black haven or m8(alniko) also I saw good options from Guitarmory.


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## Artem (Feb 19, 2022)

budda said:


> The harmonic content changes between pitch shifting and actual downtuning, though I dont know by how much. Hopefullly the DI will be an acceptable ballpark.


I think I have done this more than once, so I want to hear if the resonances appear when you lower the tuning and how big they are
I think I've seen tests where the guitar was first tuned with the strings and then tuned with a pith shifter, and everything sounded identical, so I think it's a good way for such cases.


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## budda (Feb 19, 2022)

Artem said:


> I think I have done this more than once, so I want to hear if the resonances appear when you lower the tuning and how big they are
> I think I've seen tests where the guitar was first tuned with the strings and then tuned with a pith shifter, and everything sounded identical, so I think it's a good way for such cases.



Physics says that a pitch shifter and downtuning wont sound identical, no? Not saying it wont sound close - i pitch shift 5 semi-tones quite often.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 19, 2022)

Edika said:


> First of all beautiful instrument! I probably missed the NGD for it as I don't remember this beauty!
> 
> From all these 16 pages of this thread I think the most shocking thing I found is the fact you have the neck pickup 3mm from the strings! The neck pickup is usually closer to the strings and they always recommend having it further away from the strings to have a more balanced sound and not affect the vibration of the strings. I have it quite a bit further down on most of my guitars and it still sounds louder than the bridge pickup lol. I'm curious to know what benefits you get from having the neck pickup so close to the strings, aside from the obvious boost in volume and more crunchy tone, and if you see any drawbacks from having it further down!



I posted the NGD a few years ago but the pics don't load anymore. Checking the guitar now when fretting the 12th fret the bass side of both pickups is 4mm and the treble side is 3mm so there is a gradual 1mm slant, those measurements are taken from the pole pieces which is important to note. The guitar actually came with it closer to the strings which was causing a lot of unwanted noise and making the signal too hot so we routed the pickups to sit lower. 

I've tried different heights. The closer you get the hotter the signal gets which also picks up unwanted noise from your hands and pick, further away the signal gets cleaner but it starts to thin out and sound weak. Fine for clean playing but I don't like it for hi-gain, I also don't like lower output pickups. 4mm is below most manufacturers recommendations. Seymour Duncan says start at 2.5mm, Dimarzio say 2mm. 4-3mm is the ideal height in my opinion before the signal starts to weaken, no sustain issues, you don't get the warbling effect and you can rely on your technique to play cleanly. I had a guitar with the pickups 1.5mm from the strings and it was impossible to play cleanly. 

Find what works for you and adjust the pole pieces too. Like action it mostly personal preference.


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## Artem (Feb 19, 2022)

budda said:


> Physics says that a pitch shifter and downtuning wont sound identical, no? Not saying it wont sound close - i pitch shift 5 semi-tones quite often.


Yes, you are probably right, sometimes I hear unpleasant artifacts, but I think it all depends on the quality of the guitar recording.


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## Artem (Feb 19, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I posted the NGD a few years ago but the pics don't load anymore. Checking the guitar now when fretting the 12th fret the bass side of both pickups is 4mm and the treble side is 3mm so there is a gradual 1mm slant, those measurements are taken from the pole pieces which is important to note. The guitar actually came with it closer to the strings which was causing a lot of unwanted noise and making the signal too hot so we routed the pickups to sit lower.
> 
> I've tried different heights. The closer you get the hotter the signal gets which also picks up unwanted noise from your hands and pick, further away the signal gets cleaner but it starts to thin out and sound weak. Fine for clean playing but I don't like it for hi-gain, I also don't like lower output pickups. 4mm is below most manufacturers recommendations. Seymour Duncan says start at 2.5mm, Dimarzio say 2mm. 4-3mm is the ideal height in my opinion before the signal starts to weaken, no sustain issues, you don't get the warbling effect and you can rely on your technique to play cleanly. I had a guitar with the pickups 1.5mm from the strings and it was impossible to play cleanly.
> 
> Find what works for you and adjust the pole pieces too. Like action it mostly personal preference.


By the way, I can say that I really liked the sound of your guitar, even when I lowered its sound by 7 semitones, everything is recorded with high quality and has no extra noise


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## pondman (Feb 19, 2022)




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## Edika (Feb 20, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I posted the NGD a few years ago but the pics don't load anymore. Checking the guitar now when fretting the 12th fret the bass side of both pickups is 4mm and the treble side is 3mm so there is a gradual 1mm slant, those measurements are taken from the pole pieces which is important to note. The guitar actually came with it closer to the strings which was causing a lot of unwanted noise and making the signal too hot so we routed the pickups to sit lower.
> 
> I've tried different heights. The closer you get the hotter the signal gets which also picks up unwanted noise from your hands and pick, further away the signal gets cleaner but it starts to thin out and sound weak. Fine for clean playing but I don't like it for hi-gain, I also don't like lower output pickups. 4mm is below most manufacturers recommendations. Seymour Duncan says start at 2.5mm, Dimarzio say 2mm. 4-3mm is the ideal height in my opinion before the signal starts to weaken, no sustain issues, you don't get the warbling effect and you can rely on your technique to play cleanly. I had a guitar with the pickups 1.5mm from the strings and it was impossible to play cleanly.
> 
> Find what works for you and adjust the pole pieces too. Like action it mostly personal preference.


I agree for sure, I follow the 3mm rule for most of my bridge pickup and, depending on the output, go higher/lower. I was just curious about the neck pickup. I guess it will distort more and not change the volume output as much. I tend to use high output pickups too and was always concerned the neck pickup would interfere more on the string vibration but I'll experiment more.

Truth be told I mainly use my bridge pickup for almost all my playing, aside for cleans, and maybe that is the reason why, because I had the neck pups too low and, while I got clarity, I would not get much distortion/compression.


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## StevenC (Feb 20, 2022)

budda said:


> Physics says that a pitch shifter and downtuning wont sound identical, no? Not saying it wont sound close - i pitch shift 5 semi-tones quite often.


This is correct. The overtones from a string at a given pitch, gauge, length and tension will be different than changing those things and pitch correcting.


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