# Post your favorite scale or mode!



## bostjan (Apr 20, 2006)

I love scales and modes.

The combination I use most often these days is A Hungarian Minor / E Byzantine

A B C D# E F G#
E F G# A B C D#

------------------------------------------------4--5------
--------------------------------------4--5--6-------------
-----------------------------------5----------------------
----------------------6--7--7--9-------------------------
------------6--7--8--------------------------------------
--5--7--8------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------4--5----
---------------------------------------------5----------
-----------------------------------6--7--9-------------
----------------------6--7--7--8-----------------------
---------4--5--7--8------------------------------------
--5--6--------------------------------------------------


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## Drew (Apr 20, 2006)

Diatonic.


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## Akrin (Apr 20, 2006)

I always love that sinister harmonic minor sound - but I also like weird scales like the whole tone scale and stuff. Great for tapping too...couldn't be much easier to remember.


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## zimbloth (Apr 21, 2006)

Bostjan, thats funny. A lot of the songs I wrote on our record are in Hungarian. I like the persian and jewish scales too.


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## bostjan (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm guessing you play deathmetallish guitar?

I went through a pretty big Iwato/Hirrajoshi phase not long ago.

Now I'm trying to work with a very odd scale. I don't know what it's called yet, but it has 1 bb2 bbb3 #4 b5 b6 and bb7 (it's not in standard tuning, of course) you could call it Lydian Diminished Altered 2 Altered 3, i guess.


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## Michael (Apr 21, 2006)

Phrygian, works well for prog riffs!!


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## Metal Ken (Apr 21, 2006)

Phrygian Dominant.


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## Jason (Apr 21, 2006)

"25.5"


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## Metal Ken (Apr 21, 2006)

Midgethands ;p


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## zimbloth (Apr 21, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I'm guessing you play deathmetallish guitar?



Not quite, it's just "metal". There's elements of basically all sub-genres in there, mixed up and made into a unique identity. I just find that scale to be cool sounding. You could say there's some death metal elements though yes.


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## Metal Ken (Apr 21, 2006)

bostjan said:


> 1 bb2 bbb3 #4 b5 b6 and bb7


So it'd look like:
C-C-C#-F#-F#-G#-A? ;p ;p


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## bostjan (Apr 21, 2006)

It's out of the 19-tET scale

E Fb Gbb A# Bb C Db

This scale would never work in standard tuning.

What do you mean by Phrygian Dominant? Can you spell out the formula for me? I know of Phrygian Diminished 7.


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## DelfinoPie (Apr 21, 2006)

My favourite mode would have to be D-Dorian.

Favourite scale would definitely have to be the Spanish scale in E.

E F G# A B C D E


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## bostjan (Apr 21, 2006)

DelfinoPie said:


> My favourite mode would have to be D-Dorian.
> 
> Favourite scale would definitely have to be the Spanish scale in E.
> 
> E F G# A B C D E



That's actually Ahaba Raba or Spanish Gypsy scale, unles there's a note missing.


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## Mark. A (Apr 21, 2006)

Harmonic Minor does it for me


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## DelfinoPie (Apr 21, 2006)

bostjan said:


> That's actually Ahaba Raba or Spanish Gypsy scale, unles there's a note missing.



Haha...ya' learn something new everyday, either way it sounds awesome hehe


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## Drew (Apr 21, 2006)

bostjan said:


> That's actually Ahaba Raba or Spanish Gypsy scale, unles there's a note missing.



Isn't it Phrygian Dominant? 

[action=Drew]is behind on his coffee, but unless he's greatly mistaken, a phrygian dominant is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale, and can be described as a minor scale with a b2 and natural 3.[/action]


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## noodles (Apr 21, 2006)

Lately, I've been digging on this modified pentatonic my instructor showed me, which is also known as the Dimebag scale (shown in E):

----------------------------------------------------------------------12-15-16-
-----------------------------------------------------------12-14-15------------
---------------------------------------------12-13-14-15----------------------
----------------------------------12-13-14-------------------------------------
-----------------------12-13-14------------------------------------------------
------------12-15-16-----------------------------------------------------------
-12-14-15----------------------------------------------------------------------

This also blends well with natural minor. You can change on the fly, even in the middle of the run. This scale is stupid fun, and if you notice, it has both the major and minor third, so you can play it over a ton of stuff. Since a godd deal of the notes are passing tones, you really have to watch what you land on. I tend to use it in places where I'd want to use both minor pentatonic and natural minor, and focus on landing on notes that are part of the standard minor pentatonic.

I use this over a D-F# vamp in one of our songs, and it absolutely crushes. It is also a nice tie in to the straight natural minor solo Mike follows it with. I can't play as fast as Mike, so I tend to play things that make me stand out on my own.


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## telecaster90 (Apr 21, 2006)

bostjan said:


> .What do you mean by Phrygian Dominant? Can you spell out the formula for me? I know of Phrygian Diminished 7.



It's the phyrigian mode with a major third instead of minor third. 

My favorite is probably Phyrigian Dominant or the Blues scalemetal, but I also have been messing around with just random shapes and using them on every string. Not really stuff that makes any sense with theory but it easy to play.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 21, 2006)

Varies. I like the different modes of the melodic minor, but I can't say I've got a specific favourite. I like lydian, lydian augmented, and lydian dominant stuff too.


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## 7slinger (Apr 21, 2006)

harmonic minor...I don't think about scales/modes much (nearly as much as I should), but I still practice harmonic minor in every position for a cool warmup, 
then switch it up and do descending thirds and stuff <----no idea what that really means


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## noodles (Apr 21, 2006)

7slinger said:


> then switch it up and do descending thirds and stuff <----no idea what that really means



E Harmonic Minor, descending thirds:

12----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---13-16-12-13----12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------14----12-14-11-12----11----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------14----12-14-10-----10----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------14-----13-14-10-13----10------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------14----12-14-10-12----10---------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------14----12-14-11-12-

I'm sitting at work without a guitar, so hopefully I didn't mess that up. It's just a pattern: down a third, then up a second.


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## Ken (Apr 22, 2006)

I love Mixo most of all.


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## Metal Ken (Apr 22, 2006)

bostjan said:


> It's out of the 19-tET scale
> 
> E Fb Gbb A# Bb C Db
> 
> ...



You still have a bunch of notes that are essentially the same note lol. 
Phyrgian dominant = Phrygian #3. its a mode of harmonic minor ;p


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## Michael (Apr 22, 2006)

I really like the major bebop scale. It's just Ionian with an added #5. 


-----------------------------9-10-12-13-12-10-9--------------------------------
--------------------9-10-12----------------------12-10-9------------------------
---------7-9-10-11----------------------------------------11-10-9-7------------
-7-9-11---------------------------------------------------------------11-9-7----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## bostjan (Apr 22, 2006)

I've never heard/seen it called Phrygian Dominant. Only Ahaba Raba or Spanish Gypsy. Phrygian Dominant kind of makes sense, but the structure seems more Neapolitan than Dominant. 

Those notes are only the same in your tuning, not in mine.


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## FredGrass (Apr 22, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Those notes are only the same in your tuning, not in mine.



Okay, I need this cleared up. Noob question, sorry.

Doesn't a flatted F sound as an E? And I thought a note was a note, no matter what tuning it was played in. So wouldn't that mean you have two strings in unison?

My favourite is Ionian because it sounds most natural to me. Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. I've just started really exploring scales and modes though, until now I've basically just done made-up excercises to work on dexterity and learned riffs and shit. I'll probably develop a more exotic taste as I grow to understand music better as a whole, though.


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## bostjan (Apr 22, 2006)

FredGrass said:


> Okay, I need this cleared up. Noob question, sorry.
> 
> Doesn't a flatted F sound as an E? And I thought a note was a note, no matter what tuning it was played in. So wouldn't that mean you have two strings in unison?



Fb is enharmonic with E in standard 12-tone Equal Tempered tuning (12-tET). In this tuning, a semitone (100c) is made to be exactly one half of a whole tone (200c). The whole tones are exactly one sixth of a pure octave (1200c). In natural harmonics, there is no set value for the whole tone, and it actually varies from 184c to 204c. So tuning the steps is totally subjective. Besides tuning them to 100c each, I also tune them to 63c (19-tET), which generated the set of notes as follows:
Ab, A, A#, Bb, B, B#/Cb, C, C#, Db, D, D#, Eb, E, E#/Fb, F, F#, Gb, G, G#.

This provides more intervals with which to work, *and* matches my thirds much closer to their natural intonation. 

All of the standard 12-tET scales are available in 19-tET, but they do sound a little different. Plus, I have real diminished fifths and augmented fourths, not just a note that rests halfway between to suffice as a poor approximation. 

The drawbacks are that arpeggios are a lot more difficult to execute, even though scalar playing is the same.


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## FredGrass (Apr 22, 2006)

Jesus Christ.


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## Ken (Apr 23, 2006)

FredGrass said:


> Doesn't a flatted F sound as an E? And I thought a note was a note, no matter what tuning it was played in. So wouldn't that mean you have two strings in unison?



Alright, why don't I try to answer this. Your question really needs a 2-part answer.

Notes ring at a certain frequency (your open A string is at 440hz), so whether you're calling it an Fb or an E, the frequency is the same. To answer your question, if you're playing an Fb on the low B 5th fret, and you strike an open E, then yes you would have two strings in unison.

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|-0----------------------|
|-5----------------------|

Now, this next part is debatable, so this is my opinion. The only time you would call an E an Fb is if you're diminishing an F note in a key that doesn't have an E note (Db, for example). 

Here are the notes for the key of Db
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C

If you were playing a chromatic line between F and Eb, like this:

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|-3--2--1----------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|

the E (2nd fret) would be represented on the stave as an Fb (and the "b" would be right next to the note, indicating that ONLY that F note is flat). Other than that, you should refer to the note as an E.

Does that help any?


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## Metal Ken (Apr 26, 2006)

That follows what everyone else was thinking. Bostjan's using microtonal scales


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## abyssalservant (May 11, 2006)

Double-harmonic. Basically, it's Phrygian-Dominant #7, or Phrygian #3 #7. It's obviously a little less tonal, so use care in administering it to your forgings, but it's fun as hell.

As for naming Phrygian Dominant, I've seen at least a half a dozen names for it, including the previously mentioned, Jewish, and Spanish/Flamenco. I personally tend to use names based on the modes, because they're easier for most people to grasp quickly. If you just throw some ethnicity at me, I don't hear a scale in my brain.


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## bostjan (May 18, 2006)

Yeah, but why the hell would it be called dominant with a major seventh? 

I call it Byzantine, Double Harmonic, or Phr M3 M7. Spanish scale should have eight notes...

I have tons of scale books, and every fricken one has a different name for this scale, yet not one says "Phrygian Dominant." Can anyone site where that name is from?


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## distressed_romeo (May 18, 2006)

A lot of the time I don't bother giving scales names just for this reason, especially the different permutations of the pentatonic scale, as I find it easier just to think of them in terms of the sound. Most of my soloing is based around chord tones anyway.


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## Mr. S (May 20, 2006)

at the moment im mainly using the lydian scale and the harmonic minor, but im forever trying to utilise the wholetone/halftone scale.... ill never be as good as holdsworth


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 22, 2006)

Mr. S said:


> ... wholetone/halftone scale ...


Most people call that dimished, which is wicked fun to use with minor, phrygian and locrian based tunes!!


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## abyssalservant (May 23, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, but why the hell would it be called dominant with a major seventh?
> 
> I call it Byzantine, Double Harmonic, or Phr M3 M7. Spanish scale should have eight notes...
> 
> I have tons of scale books, and every fricken one has a different name for this scale, yet not one says "Phrygian Dominant." Can anyone site where that name is from?




Different scale. Phr M3, not Phr M3 M7.
Yes, I was talking about two different, similarly-named scales in the same post. Forgive me.


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## distressed_romeo (May 23, 2006)

Has anyone ever experimented with 12 tone ideas, a la Schoenberg (or Marty Friedman, Jason Becker or Ron Jarzombek)? Sooooo much fun!


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 26, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> Has anyone ever experimented with 12 tone ideas, a la Schoenberg (or Marty Friedman, Jason Becker or Ron Jarzombek)? Sooooo much fun!



I've heard about that, but never tried it. I really don't use chromatics that much either, most of the time (to me) it just sounds either "wrong" or "bluesy". Not saying that it isn't musically valid, I'm just not good at using it.


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## mxer (May 26, 2006)

i like this



(scale tones) B,C,D#,E,F#,A,B

its good for middel eastern things.
its ether called Phrigian with the 3rd raised or the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. i think


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## Metal Ken (May 26, 2006)

Phyrgian dominant, of which i spake of earlier in the thread. it rules \m/


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## Drew (Jun 1, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> Has anyone ever experimented with 12 tone ideas, a la Schoenberg (or Marty Friedman, Jason Becker or Ron Jarzombek)? Sooooo much fun!



 

My final composition for Music Comp II in college was a 12-tone jazz head. I put together a tone row based around stacked 5ths to keep it semi-consonant, and performed it with upright bass, drums, guitar, and I think a sax... this was a while ago, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. For the solos, I just hit it with a series of mixolydian scales based around each "chord" (a series of stacked 5ths/sus2 voicings) and winged it. I'd written some more conventinal guitar stuff I wanted to do for the performance, but my professor basically ordered me to play that one because she thought it was so cool. It really did sound like a pretty straight jazz head until you began analyzing it, I should see if I can still find the score...


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## distressed_romeo (Jun 1, 2006)

Yay!

One of the things I'm experimenting with at the moment is Ron Jarzombek's 'Circle of Twelve Tones' system, which is basically a development of 12 tone theory. I won't try and explain it myself, but here's his essay on it...

http://www.ronjarzombek.com/rj12tone.html

Hours of good clean fun!!


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## Desecrated (Jun 3, 2006)

diminished and 12 tone


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## bostjan (Jun 4, 2006)

Hmm, I see this was a crumby poll, since everyone is voting "ethnic or other."

How about eight-tone spanish?


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## distressed_romeo (Jun 5, 2006)

I voted 'other', as most of my soloing is based on chord tones with a lot of modal interchange, so I don't really favour one scale over another.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jun 5, 2006)

Drew said:


> ... I should see if I can still find the score...


Dude I'd so like to see/hear that!! Please dig this up.


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## Your Majesty (Jun 23, 2006)

With music I play and practice too, I tend to use and prefer "Phrygian"!


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