# Do any of you jazz players play metal, or vice versa?



## acriticalcookie

I'm curious about the diversity in here. I started as a metal player for 6 years. but I just bought my first hollow and I"m diving into jazz as well.
Some of the chords are really frustrating, but I'm getting it...


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## AlexRuger

I started out metal, then became a jazz guitarist and played metal less and less, and then got tendinosis from playing too much, so now I don't play much guitar anymore. Mostly composing and producing.


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## SnowfaLL

I wouldnt consider myself either; but Ive played in some very technical metal bands, and have played a few jazz standards on stage in the past. My daily listening often contains Nevermore and Megadeth to Gerald Albright and Wes Montgomery.. often within the same hour

But I think thats similar to a lot of guys here.


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## ghostred7

I like to try at both....can't say I'm good enough to do either well. Seeing how among my 1st 2 fav guitarists were Malmsteen & DiMeola...you can kinna see where the dual influence of Jazz/Metal met.


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## JPMike

Well, I will talk about myself. I listened to metal since I was 12, but my guitar teacher always talked to me about jazz and the complexity and all that, until I was 17. I would listen to some tunes but never really understood what was going on and there wasn't that aggressiveness which I loved in metal (mind me, I was a teenager). That time, I would practise my technique a lot, alternate picking (I am strict alternate picking player, I am kinda used to pick everything), legato, sweep (I am the worst sweeper), economy picking, string skipping, etc. 

When I got into college/university (study economics)I was still into the guitar and playing but not in a pro level just for the fun of myself. I realised in my 3rd year at university that this whole thing wasn't for me and that I wanted to study music (I always wanted it when I was a teen), so I dropped off that.

I joined a conservatory here in Athens, which is associated with Berklee, so you study 2 years here and 2 years there. When I started classes it was all about learning jazz and how it works, etc. So even though that wasn't my main goal (to play jazz) I had to study/practise and get the hang of it, as time went by I was falling deeper and deeper into the jazz thing and eventually fell in love with it. I realised how much soul, discipline, diversity, freedom, complexity this music style really has in it. Right now as we speak I ended the 4th semester at my scool and got 1 more. I just want to play jazz and get better at it, to reach high levels as the greats, my last summer included 6-8 hours of daily practising. 

The question is what happened to metal and the similar genres. I realised, I was never a metal player at heart, but I stil listen to it and love it. Also I realised that I don't like to perform as a metal player but I love to perform as a "jazz" player, it comes out more naturally to me. 

Final and third realisation is, I love to compose, record, produce metal/rock/djent/whatever songs/tracks on my free time, since when I don't have free time I would practise jazz related stuff.

So yeah, being a "jazz" player you can also be a "metal" player but you can't do both equally good, since it's two whole different point of views. 

P.S I am not a jazz player by any means, but I am trying to become one. I don't consider myself a good player.


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## shanejohnson02

I started out like most Texas kids: I worshipped at the altar of SRV and Hendrix.

More on topic though, I played for the jazz band in my college, as well as the stage band for our big broadway-style spring show. I still wasn't much into metal at the time. But I made side money playing classical/jazz gigs at weddings, and as part of a small combo band at coffee shops and such.

Fast forward to just after college: I joined the US Army, and naturally aggression is part of the culture. One of my drill sergeants introduced me to Hammerfall. Then my brother got into Killswitch Engage, which got me hooked. It just blew out of proportion from there.

The problem I run into is this: I don't necessarily have the "metal" feel. I *love* playing it, but it just doesn't come across right. For me, about the most metal I can do at the moment is Petrucci's "Jaws of Life". My technique is fairly solid, definitely not perfect though. Add to that the fact that I still prefer the snappy, edge-of-breakup clean that defines blues music, as well as the thick, warm, almost fuzz tone clean of jazz music to most metal clean tones. Then there's the distortion issue. I don't particularly like hearing super-tight rhythm sounds, although loose is certainly not good either. Somewhere in between is cool...a nice, thick organic crunch with a well-defined pick attack and rich harmonics is what I shoot for.

That said, there are some advantages. For one, I'm used to odd rhythms and complex time signatures. Also I like clustered chord voicings and lots of extensions (9ths, 11ths, 13ths, etc).

So I would say my experience as a jazz musician has both helped and hindered my metal senses. Not complaining though...the result is pretty unique.

I know this is sort of backwards from your post...I guess my point is crossing over into such disparate styles isn't easy, but it can be pretty rewarding. Just don't sweat it if people try to tell you that you don't sound "jazzy" (the same as I don't necessarily sound "metal" all the time). If it sounds good to you and sits well in the mix, roll with it.


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## AlexRuger

JPMike! I'm just graduating Berklee. So do you mean you're currently at Berklee, or you're still doing the Athens thing?


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## JPMike

AlexSmith said:


> JPMike! I'm just graduating Berklee. So do you mean you're currently at Berklee, or you're still doing the Athens thing?



I am still doing the Athens thing, I will be probably be coming at Berklee at January or on May.

I wish, I was there soon so we could actually meet.  That would be awesome!


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## Skyblue

I learned solely Jazz from my guitar teacher... I love listening to metal, but playing and performing wise, Jazz is where it's at.


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## Santuzzo

When I started playing guitar I was into Hard Rock and Heavy Metal. When I was about 18 or so I got more and more interested in jazz, so by the time I was in my early-mid twenties I played (or tired to would be more accurate here) only jazz. Got a jazzbox and practiced standards and jazz licks, chords, etc.
But the older I got I returned to my roots and got more interested in rock and metal again, also got my first 7 string and nowadays I spend more time on rock and metal.
I wish I had more time to spend on jazz as well, but there are only 24 hours in a day and all that....


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## celticelk

I play slow music influenced by both doom metal and modal jazz. Does that count?


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## JSanta

I was heavily into metal for years and I recently (within the last 7 months) started taking lessons from a really great jazz guitarist. I've since sold all of my guitars, bought an Eastman and don't really play or listen to anything but jazz.


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## nostealbucket

I've been getting into Max Roach, Tigran Hamasyan, and Scofield. It's great to take a break from metal.


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## SnowfaLL

of course I forgot to mention; the biggest "cross-over"in my mind is Alex Skolnick; one of the greatest thrash guitarists in Testament has his own little jazz trio, where he takes metal songs and makes them into "standards" - its amazing stuff, but his original compositions are even better.. Some people disagree that he can play "jazz" but dont listen to narrow minded/traditionalists; whatever he plays I like. And its a good start IMO to listen to Skolnick take songs like Metallica's One or Iron Maiden's Trooper and give it a softer side, if you can dig that then explore the more "esoteric" jazz stuff. 

Going head first into a John Coltrane album may be a bit much for someone whos only listened to Metal all his life.


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## AlexRuger

nostealbucket said:


> I've been getting into Max Roach, Tigran Hamasyan, and Scofield. It's great to take a break from metal.



TIGRAN!!!! Finally, someone other than me is repping him. Red Hail is seriously one of my favorite albums of all time.


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## AlexRuger

JPMike said:


> I am still doing the Athens thing, I will be probably be coming at Berklee at January or on May.
> 
> I wish, I was there soon so we could actually meet.  That would be awesome!



Ah, bummer. I'll be in either NYC or LA by then. Feel free to message me if you have any questions, though!


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## JPMike

NickCormier said:


> of course I forgot to mention; the biggest "cross-over"in my mind is Alex Skolnick; one of the greatest thrash guitarists in Testament has his own little jazz trio, where he takes metal songs and makes them into "standards" - its amazing stuff, but his original compositions are even better.. Some people disagree that he can play "jazz" but dont listen to narrow minded/traditionalists; whatever he plays I like. And its a good start IMO to listen to Skolnick take songs like Metallica's One or Iron Maiden's Trooper and give it a softer side, if you can dig that then explore the more "esoteric" jazz stuff.
> 
> Going head first into a John Coltrane album may be a bit much for someone whos only listened to Metal all his life.



Skolnick is a hell of a player, I loved the early Testament records, "The New Order", "Souls of Black", "Practise What You Preach", "The Legacy", "The Ritual". So much amazing lead work in those albums.
When I listened Skolnick in a jazz context (his trio work), I was not so much impressed, even though he can do it and actually play, maybe I was partial to his metal side and I couldn't "accept" it at least at the time. I haven't listened lately to Alex playing jazz, but I will try to open my mind and give it a second spin. I wasn't accurately listening at the time.

For me, there is a great gap between jazz and metal, feel-wise. Jazz (at least traditional, bebop, hard bop, cool jazz) has this floating, swinging style. I can't really explain it but anyone who listens to jazz and knows his shit, might actually get me. 
Metal is more of a straight feel, like having boxes packed together, or even better lets say, squares. Everything is on the beat, there is no swinging of course and is more "shapely" in terms of patterns, phrases, ideas. 
So the transition or the "cross-over" as Nick mentioned, if you take in mind the factors I mentioned, is quite hard. I am not saying it's impossible, of course it can happen. 

I think if you guys, haven't noticed, Emil Werstler (PRS Endorsee, Daath, I think now he's with Chimaira) has some serious Django chops. Check him out, he also says Django has been a great inspiration to him. You can hear his solos having that gypsy feel and remaining in context of metal (dim patterns, chromatic lines, bends, etc).

Getting a metal player to listen to jazz can be tricky.
First of all, there is no actual guitar playing in the first records, 40s records where quartets and quintets became more often. So for a shredder it's kinda hard to listen to other instruments, especially ones that he's not used to listen to. Also that depends on the individual's mind, how open it can be and accept the music. 
For me, I would suggest bebop players to "metal" players who want to get into jazz, like Charlie Parker, Dizzy, etc. Stuff that are not too complex in harmony and sound impossible to be played. 
You won't suggest Miles' records, like "Kind of Blue" or "Round Midnight". 
Jazz should be listened from it's start, until you get to the modern stuff. Try and realise it's natural evolution through the years. Of course, you can get a guitar player, listen to Modern cats, like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Lage Lund, Mike Moreno, Julian Lage, Jonathan Kreisberg, maybe the connection will happen easier. 

Nonetheless, if you are an American, you ought to know what's jazz is all about, the history, the sound, the feel, the reason. It's your tradition guys and as each nation should know where they come from and what their culture represents.
I thank you so much for that. It's such a liberating and wonderful space of music where there are no boundaries (well they are but not really if you know how to break them) you are free!!
You can see that in many different people around the globe playing jazz and I've seen many Greek musicians playing jazz, how they have incorporated some of our own sounds to jazz. 
Jazz has no race or sex. It just has one origin and that's the USA. 

Excuse all the philosophical gibberish, I got carried away. 



AlexSmith said:


> Ah, bummer. I'll be in either NYC or LA by then. Feel free to message me if you have any questions, though!



Definitely a bummer, but I am hoping when I am done from Berklee, to do a Post-Graduate Course at New School Jazz Department in NYC and then try my luck over there. Make a name for myself, which will be really hard.

Thanks brother, I really appreciate it, of course I will hit you up and maybe if fate lets it happen maybe we can actually meet one day and jam or whatnot.


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## SnowfaLL

See I could care less about all that "defining" stuff; Music is either good or not. Jazz is such a WIDE varied genre you can't define it solely as you said. If you want to get technical; Jazz is any music made up of "syncopation" and "improvising" combined, thats all it is. Turn the distortion on, and that could even be metal. So I could care less about what people consider "jazz" or not (also what I HATED about playing Sax; talking to sax players is just so frustrating when they berate everyone who's not named Bird) but I love Skolnick's original "soft" work, if thats what you want to call it. Sure, definitely a rock basis, with lots of pentatonics, but it sounds great and I do think it has some "Swing" - maybe not every single song but a lot.. I'd still recommend that above all else to someone who listens to Metal; Bebop players will go over the head of most metal players and obviously someone modal like Davis wouldnt get much attention from Metal fans.. Going back to big band/swing or pop-py rhythm changes tunes would probably not be perceived well either, considering Metalheads usually curse anything on the radio.


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## SevenString

I come from a progressive and metal background (think "Dream Theater" or "Symphony X"), but I've been playing a lot of jazz over the past couple of years.

Mostly swingin' "standards" type material. My jazz songwriting has been deliberately "classic" sounding.


When I was getting started with jazz, one thing that helped me with chords was focusing on triads and "voice leading".

To REALLY get a grip on why jazz chords work together the way they do, I started working out my own chord arrangements of classic songs where I stayed within the same 5 frets and on the same 3 strings throughout a song. This forced me to use voice leading in my chord changes and I rapidly built up my own internal library of triad-based chords.

At this point, I have a pretty good "on-call" repertoire of dozens of classic jazz songs, but I can also get up to speed on any new song in a matter of minutes without needing a chord chart. One of the big reasons I can do this "by ear" is because I absorbed the sounds of various jazz chords and their relationships through the process of creating my own arrangements as I am describing.

Hopefully this is helpful.


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## SnowfaLL

interesting you use triads; although it makes sense in a band situation (as a solo-guitar arrangement, maybe not as well) - im assuming root 3rd 7th, and if you need an extension note you omit the roots?

I gotta work on that shit hard.. started to get into it back in september of last year but life happened and I went back to my comfort zone of lifting solos instead of working on chords.. But it all depends on your direct in life right, I dont see myself playing in any "standards" type jazz bands anytime soon, so its hard to be motivated to sink the countless hours into it as opposed to my original music at the moment.. Although I want to learn so much more.


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## SevenString

NickCormier said:


> interesting you use triads; although it makes sense in a band situation (as a solo-guitar arrangement, maybe not as well) - im assuming root 3rd 7th, and if you need an extension note you omit the roots?
> 
> I gotta work on that shit hard.. started to get into it back in september of last year but life happened and I went back to my comfort zone of lifting solos instead of working on chords.. But it all depends on your direct in life right, I dont see myself playing in any "standards" type jazz bands anytime soon, so its hard to be motivated to sink the countless hours into it as opposed to my original music at the moment.. Although I want to learn so much more.



I use triads as a foundation, and of course are great in the context of an ensemble.

But oftentimes I can use those fundamental triad-based arrangements as the center for extended chords and for playing more intricate moving lines when I'm playing by myself.

I do write original music (including jazz) and sink of lot of time into that. But learning standards was, in many ways, a means to an end. Sure, they're fun to play, but the real long-term benefit I got was getting a lot of foundational chords and changes under my belt in the context of living, breathing songs. And playing in an ensemble, I can't slow down (or fake an "artistic" ritard) on sections I'm not comfortable with. Either I know my shit in real-time, or I play clams and get dirty looks.

And after learning enough standards, and absorbing commonalities shared across many songs in the genre, I started being able to hear (and play) changes for songs I'd never played, as they were coming.


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## JSanta

SevenString said:


> I use triads as a foundation, and of course are great in the context of an ensemble.
> 
> But oftentimes I can use those fundamental triad-based arrangements as the center for extended chords and for playing more intricate moving lines when I'm playing by myself.
> 
> I do write original music (including jazz) and sink of lot of time into that. But learning standards was, in many ways, a means to an end. Sure, they're fun to play, but the real long-term benefit I got was getting a lot of foundational chords and changes under my belt in the context of living, breathing songs. And playing in an ensemble, I can't slow down (or fake an "artistic" ritard) on sections I'm not comfortable with. Either I know my shit in real-time, or I play clams and get dirty looks.
> 
> And after learning enough standards, and absorbing commonalities shared across many songs in the genre, I started being able to hear (and play) changes for songs I'd never played, as they were coming.



This. There is importance to learning standards, but there is a larger picture. You start to hear things over time that you might not have otherwise, and you can take apart a song quickly in an ensemble context, or even if you're just trying to learn something new. 

What I have been doing is learning standards and getting the rhythm and chord changes down, and then learn the melody, at which point I can begin to improvise. Listen to some of the jazz greats, their songs have the same feel but are really never played exactly the same way twice.


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## SnowfaLL

Yeah it'd help overall im sure.. although the type of music im working on is more atmospheric layering with keyboards (guitar is used only as lead for the most part) but someday, I'l get back into the chord stuff. Its a lifelong journey when you go down that road, even 3 years into it playing bebop-tempo rhythm changes and comping, I still dont feel confident enough to do anything more than BS my way through


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## Andromalia

I'm going to disgress a bit, but I think it can depend on the instrument. I am primarily a bass player, and I don't enjoy playing metal much on bass. With the bass, reggae is my thing. while with guitar, there's nothing better to me than slamming a chord and being stuck to the wall by a distorted tone. I don't have the background to appreciate Jazz like I do blues or reggae. Even playing the blues on bass is better for me than metal, I don't mind playing very simple lines from time to time, its all in the rythm. 
Add to that that I'm a 40 guy that does music as a hobby, I don't have the time to really learn new stuff from scratch. (Work, family, other hobbies do their their toll on the 24 available hours a day, sadly)
So i totally understand someone would actually like a different music whether he is listening or playing.


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## Kaickul

I'm a metal player but I also play jazz, just practice and you'll get used to it, as metal players aren't used to a lot of jazz chord shapes. I'm pretty sure your fingers could handle it.


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## Idontpersonally

I grew up on jazz blues and metal, i suck at all of them even though theyre constantly playing, but naturally i try to incorporate jazz and blues in playing metal and i would like to be proficient in each style. Thats whats great about it though, metal is as pretty wide open genre.


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## algtrdom

I play in a trio where we explore elements of both worlds. 
The energy of good rock and metal bands is what I really miss in a lot of today's jazz bands. 
In this group, we're actually "jazz trained" guys but doing, hopefully, our version of rock and heavy music.

We just finished mastering our first record and here you can watch an album preview video. I hope you like it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTfzERFzyvQ

(was it too spammy?)


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## SevenString

NickCormier said:


> interesting you use triads; although it makes sense in a band situation (as a solo-guitar arrangement, maybe not as well) - im assuming root 3rd 7th, and if you need an extension note you omit the roots?
> 
> I gotta work on that shit hard.. started to get into it back in september of last year but life happened and I went back to my comfort zone of lifting solos instead of working on chords.. But it all depends on your direct in life right, I dont see myself playing in any "standards" type jazz bands anytime soon, so its hard to be motivated to sink the countless hours into it as opposed to my original music at the moment.. Although I want to learn so much more.




A quick follow up: my triad shapes rarely include the root. When I'm playing with other instruments, especially bass and piano, I avoid the root unless it's a natural part of a voice-leading transition.

If I am playing without accompaniment, I might use similar rootless triads, but then I go ahead and add the root or related moving bass notes on lower strings, and I can also be a little more creative with my embellishments in the notes above the triads.

Even in the context of a single song, I might change it up. When I do "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" live, I do a vocal/guitar intro where I use fuller chords, bass notes, some little fills and trills, and even play some chord melody under the vocal.

But once the band kicks in after the intro, I'm immediately back to rootless triads, although I still do little tasteful melodic breaks in "answer" to the vocal.

Anyway, with guitar comping in jazz, there is no "one size fits all" methodology. That said, I have found through experience that it's hard to go wrong in a band context by avoiding chord roots. It's an easy way to make a bass player smile.


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## SevenString

algtrdom said:


> I play in a trio where we explore elements of both worlds.
> The energy of good rock and metal bands is what I really miss in a lot of today's jazz bands.
> In this group, we're actually "jazz trained" guys but doing, hopefully, our version of rock and heavy music.
> 
> We just finished mastering our first record and here you can watch an album preview video. I hope you like it!
> 
> 
> 
> (was it too spammy?)





I watch/listened to the video and that's the opposite of "spam". It was very relevant to the topic, and I think what you're doing is very interesting.


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## algtrdom

Nice, thank you very much SevenString.


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## AlexRuger

algtrdom, that is some awesome stuff.

I have to ask...it says mastered by Nate Wood. That wouldn't possibly be THE Nate Wood from bands like Kneebody and Tigran Hamasyan...?


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## Idontpersonally

i can say for a fact my legato improved a great deal by listening to jazz/horn players as opposed to guitar/metal players. ie john coltrane, charlie parker. It has basically become my reference point for getting a solid tone out of playing now.


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## algtrdom

AlexSmith said:


> algtrdom, that is some awesome stuff.
> 
> I have to ask...it says mastered by Nate Wood. That wouldn't possibly be THE Nate Wood from bands like Kneebody and Tigran Hamasyan...?



Yes, that's him. Besides being an amazing musician, he's also a fantastic mastering engineer, very talented. He actually worked on those Tigran's records.

Thank you very much AlexSmith, I'm very glad you enjoyed it.


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## Bennykins

I've mostly been into playing metal, but just a few weeks ago I bought an Eastman hollow-body and some teach yourself jazz books, which I'm about to get stuck into.


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## AlexRuger

algtrdom said:


> Yes, that's him. Besides being an amazing musician, he's also a fantastic mastering engineer, very talented. He actually worked on those Tigran's records.
> 
> Thank you very much AlexSmith, I'm very glad you enjoyed it.



Wow!! That's incredible. He's actually one of my favorite drummers ever. What a beast.


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## algtrdom

Cool! yeah, he's good, a great guy too.


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## Senaeth

I started out with Metal around age of 13 but I always had a very broad liking of music. I always listened from everything from Sinatra to Fleetwood Mack to At the Gates. And for the past year I was getting bored with guitar, I know a to long to name list of songs and techniques but nothing (for me) new stuff was out there IMO. 

Untill a friend of mine took me to a Eric Johnson concert. Eric Johnson did a cover of Coltrain's Mr PC and it just blew me away. The complexity of the song just drew me to it and the need to know every note from every scale was just a completely new concept to me. So the next day I turned the Gain down on my amp and started playing just simple scales all day long I did about 10 hours none stop of playing that day. And a few days later I was improvising on the backing tracks of jazz standards and absolutely loving it. And a few days later I transformed one of the most metal style guitars into a great jazz machine, by putting a set of PAF8's in my RGA8. I still play metal often but I'm also hooked on jazz


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## r134

I play jazz bass..

When I started jazz at school, I couldnt play a guitar very well, and the previous year my jazz drumkit playing was lacking :|


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## JPMike

The main difference between, metal and jazz (swing) is the "feel".


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## celticelk

JPMike said:


> The main difference between, metal and jazz (swing) is the "feel".



I think collective improvisation is another necessary component of "jazz" that generally separates it from "metal."


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## Konfyouzd

NickCormier said:


> I wouldnt consider myself either; but Ive played in some very technical metal bands, and have played a few jazz standards on stage in the past. My daily listening often contains Nevermore and Megadeth to Gerald Albright and Wes Montgomery.. often within the same hour
> 
> But I think thats similar to a lot of guys here.



This man said Gerald Albright in the same sentence as Nevermore...


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## JPMike

celticelk said:


> I think collective improvisation is another necessary component of "jazz" that generally separates it from "metal."



Metal is more Linear to my ears and Jazz more Vertical.

But Linear in Jazz also works, if you know how to voice lead.


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## bondmorkret

I've played in metal bands for the best part of 15 years and also been playing jazz guitar for many years too. I personally think they're about as far removed from one another as two musical styles can be, its a completely different mindset!


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## JustMac

JPMike said:


> Metal is more Linear to my ears and Jazz more Vertical.
> 
> But Linear in Jazz also works, if you know how to voice lead.


I'm thinking of doing music at Uni, but as a self-taught guitarist who has delved into theory with varying degrees of success, I think I mightn't have the technical know-how to get in with the entrance exam. How much do you seriously need to know, just to get in?


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## SnowfaLL

JustMac said:


> I'm thinking of doing music at Uni, but as a self-taught guitarist who has delved into theory with varying degrees of success, I think I mightn't have the technical know-how to get in with the entrance exam. How much do you seriously need to know, just to get in?



I dunno how "intense" my college was for entrance, as many people got in without knowing much - but basically my audition consisted of knowing the main scales and being able to play them in multiple positions when asked (Major, Minor, Harmonic minor, Melodic minor), knowing your basic chord shapes (7th chords) and a small written exam with stuff like knowing what key sig a piece is in, stuff like that.

Im sure some of the higher end schools want much more knowledge, but the most important part is showing the faculty that you really want to learn as much as possible, and are willing to do anything to learn. Make sure you are malleable to their teachings. Don't go in with any mindset of "I want to learn just this genre and thats it" or even say you play one genre of music.


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## metalmonster

I do both.


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## Perihelion

Metal in my band, jazz at college.


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## Eclipse

I take private jazz lessons because I play Jazz guitar in my high school jazz band. It's really fun. Chords were never a problem for me. Neither was improv. Just study hard. If it were easy everyone would do it!


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## noUser01

I'm not really jazz player or a metal player really... put it this way, I study metal because to me it's the pinnacle of technique. I study jazz because to me it's the pinnacle of knowledge and fretboard mastery.

I don't think I'll ever really become a "jazzer", but I will always spent time practicing traditional jazz playing and studying jazz theory because it's an essential part of not only my general theory knowledge, but my writing and metal playing too.


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## zakatak9389

Played nothing but metal for the first 5 years after i got into guitar. Then i took an interest in how chords are constructed and subsequently fell in love with jazz. I've completely engulfed myself in it for the last 3 years or so. Now I play a blend of like post-hardcore/jazz fusion/soul music.


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## jonajon91

Me and my friend have a post-djent project, but we like to think we play Jazz, but with distortion. Were called 'cracks' and we don't *GUTHRIE GOVAN!* have any songs yet, but we have a load of concept art and 8 string guitars. I have an axe FX on *ALAN HOLDSWORTH* order. I don't actually listen to jazz, but I listen to animals as leaders and periphery so that is like ... the same thing.

---edit---

shit, I hope I wrote that sarcastic enough.


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## JPMike

jonajon91 said:


> I don't actually listen to jazz, but I listen to animals as leaders and periphery so that is like ... the same thing.



This is a joke, right?


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## jonajon91

Yes.


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## AMEmusic

Yeah man i feel you on that. I have the same story pretty much. I studied jazz in college for 4 years and could play it pretty convincingly (at times) by the time I graduated. But I wasn't the best in the scene by any means, so I didn't get many gigs playing jazz. Philadelphia has a rich jazz heritage and there are just way too many young players that crush in that city. Jazz is not something you really play as a hobby, at least for me. Its a lifestyle, if you want to be good at it. There's barely time to take a shit, let alone play any other style of music if you want to be good at it and not, as my teacher would call it, "bullshit the changes". I still love it though. I just don't have the time to be a competent jazz musician.


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## SnowfaLL

AMEmusic said:


> Yeah man i feel you on that. I have the same story pretty much. I studied jazz in college for 4 years and could play it pretty convincingly (at times) by the time I graduated. But I wasn't the best in the scene by any means, so I didn't get many gigs playing jazz. Philadelphia has a rich jazz heritage and there are just way too many young players that crush in that city. Jazz is not something you really play as a hobby, at least for me. Its a lifestyle, if you want to be good at it. There's barely time to take a shit, let alone play any other style of music if you want to be good at it and not, as my teacher would call it, "bullshit the changes". I still love it though. I just don't have the time to be a competent jazz musician.



Yeah I agree; to be a session player in the jazz scene you gotta be 100% committed. I like it a lot, but not enough to spend time memorizing 100+ standard's chord changes and enjoying playing rhythm changes all day long. I have friends I went to school with who dig that thing; get excited when they memorize a new standard for their repertoire.. Good on them, but not for me.

I do really like "smooth jazz" though - many people find it just "elevator music" but I love how theres actual song structure usually (the good bands) and how it is not just a jam session over a set of changes.. Thats the direction I've been spending time in lately, and hope to get a project going in.


----------



## JSanta

NickCormier said:


> Yeah I agree; to be a session player in the jazz scene you gotta be 100% committed. I like it a lot, but not enough to spend time memorizing 100+ standard's chord changes and enjoying playing rhythm changes all day long. I have friends I went to school with who dig that thing; get excited when they memorize a new standard for their repertoire.. Good on them, but not for me.



I completely agree with this. I take great joy learning a new standard, especially when I can just take the chart my teacher gives me and know how to play it without any chord diagrams. Lately I've been really happy to learn new standards that I didn't think I would be able to grasp even a few months ago.


----------



## hk_golgatha

Played metal for 5 years, always loved the chords of bands like Rush, so I got into jazz. Jazz is great to incorporate into metal in any way imaginable. My band does it all the time and it's great fun. Bands like cynic and such do it often. Hell, even in scale the summit stuff you can see almost jazz style voicings by metal standards.


----------



## hk_golgatha

And taking metal techniques and applying them to jazz can be fantastic. My school jazz band did Watermelon Man by Herbie Hancock and my director lost it when I played 4 or 5 parts in the intro with two hand tapping and little slap fills.


----------



## SevenString

On a related note, I like taking old songs and turning them kind of "metal". I do hard rock and metal covers of songs like "Brick House", "Get Ready", "Superstition", "Thriller", "She Blinded Me with Science", "Shock the Monkey", and more. I've been even known to do "Magic" by Olivia Newton-John from the "Xanadu" soundtrack as kind of a dark metal cover.

People seem to like these more rocked-out versions.

Next up: a "Racer-X" style treatment of some old Sinatra tunes.


----------



## Eclipse

Jazz is like... cool man.


----------



## AugmentedFourth

If AAL, Blotted Science, Cynic, and Cloudkicker count as metal, then yes. I listen to metal.

Then again, I'm not really much of a jazz guitarist! I mostly just like jazz, know a bit of the theory, and like playing chord melodies on the ol' 8 string.


----------



## JustMac

jonajon91 said:


> Me and my friend have a post-djent project, but we like to think we play Jazz, but with distortion. Were called 'cracks' and we don't *GUTHRIE GOVAN!* have any songs yet, but we have a load of concept art and 8 string guitars. I have an axe FX on *ALAN HOLDSWORTH* order. I don't actually listen to jazz, but I listen to animals as leaders and periphery so that is like ... the same thing.
> 
> ---edit---
> 
> shit, I hope I wrote that sarcastic enough.


Should I see a doctor if I felt blood rushing to my hands as I got to the end of that? I didn't see the end of the message first so I'm sure that's....somewhat understandable  

I'm no theory wizz-kid or anything, but I am a huge fan of playing Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino and Jim Hall stuff (I'm a lot more of a bebop/hard-bop guy than fusion ala Holdsworth), and try to implement some of them ideas into metal environments in playing I guess.


----------



## Triple-J

Recently I started playing jazz and went through a phase of buying books/dvds/etc about it but the more I learnt the more I found it translated into other forms of music namely rockabilly and country but the thing is that I'm now more interested in playing this weird dark rockabilly/country style I've developed so I've quit playing jazz but I'm still listening to it.


----------



## Chuck

zakatak9389 said:


> Now I play a blend of like post-hardcore/jazz fusion/soul music.



Makes perfect sense with that DGD avatar!


----------



## Eric Von Kimble

Oh yeah man I like to do both, Jazz Fusion
Check out Allan Holdsworth, Greg Howe
I love that sound

Its lots of Jazz influence coupled with classical, their in the shed zone at the same damn time, lol.


----------



## mr_ormus777

Just saw this, 
I studied Jazz and played in Jazz/Fusion bands in Sydney most of my younger days, I love the music of Allan Holdsworth, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderly and a bunch of others but am more of a Fusion player using these guys as my inspiration, but on the other side, I also listen to and really dig Ever Forthright, AAL, Means End, and what originally got me into 8 string guitars: Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects (not sure if he used an 8 on that tho), I've only recently started using elements from Prog Metal in my tunes like displaced distorted lines on the lower strings but was already thinking along those lines a while back after hearing Steve Coleman and his M-Base stuff which was obviously more from a Jazz context. Before this I was just using the 8 string(and previously a 7) for just having a bigger range to solo with. But back to the question yes both!


----------



## AugmentedFourth

mr_ormus777 said:


> Just saw this,
> I studied Jazz and played in Jazz/Fusion bands in Sydney most of my younger days, I love the music of Allan Holdsworth, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderly and a bunch of others but am more of a Fusion player using these guys as my inspiration, but on the other side, I also listen to and really dig Ever Forthright, AAL, Means End, and what originally got me into 8 string guitars: Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects (not sure if he used an 8 on that tho), I've only recently started using elements from Prog Metal in my tunes like displaced distorted lines on the lower strings but was already thinking along those lines a while back after hearing Steve Coleman and his M-Base stuff which was obviously more from a Jazz context. Before this I was just using the 8 string(and previously a 7) for just having a bigger range to solo with. But back to the question yes both!



+1 for M-Base, and the Special Defects!

Steve Coleman _blew me away_ the first time I listened to him.
In fact, this was the tune I was introduced to:

Fortitude and Chaos

A lot of Coleman's stuff is free on his website. Definitely check it out for those that haven't already.


----------



## insanebassninja

Playing blues and want to move to jazz now so I can play metal.


----------



## hk_golgatha

My district/area jazz band just started up (yeah, high school, woo). 

I love getting to read new jazz charts because they're all so different. They all have really odd chord changes that you have to adapt to. I can certainly say that jazz has made me a better player in metal and overall. It teaches you how to really improvise and write over lines that move in and out of keys, forcing you to really use all of the scales at your arsenal (Giant Steps, anyone?).

Jazz has helped me develop not only my scalar playing but also my ear. Playingin that big band setting has helped me hear how harmonies and notes fit into the music and timbre and I can say that it has helped my metal playing a lot in ways I never could comprehend before.

Plus, I honestly feel jazz is infinitely harder than metal. In its own ways, of course.


----------



## algtrdom

Hey guys, I posted a video of my band a while back in this thread and just wanted to let you know, for those who enjoyed it, that the album came out today on Iluso Records.

Here's a tune from the album: https://soundcloud.com/ilusorecords/opikbyopik3

I hope you dig it. 

Thanks!


----------



## metalmonster

I can tell that my few years times of playing more jazz and some world music made me a richer musician, and a much better teacher. 

Now i have a doom metal project and i realize how much jazz made me a better musician ... i mean, the music i now write is so much more mature and complex. 
I know, that's just uneasy to understand if i put it that way. Let's give an example : 

i found a lovely chord progression that relies heavily on II-III-VI then VII in C major scale, with a lot of chord "enrichments" (don't remember the english term for adding 9th or a 6th to a chord), then i wrote a bassline in ionian mode and all of a sudden everything got so "tied" by the bass, and all of a sudden.. bam, instant awesome. It's all creativity and simplicity, really. It's just that i know what i'm doing and i know what my options are when i play one chord followed by another. 

If music is a language, Jazz is poetry, and this poetry contains rules that are in the same time very good because they help you create great-sounding music and in the same time they're so flexible you can do all you want with them. 

That's why your options are very vast actually, and one might even try to "forget" about the "usual" rules of music just to create new ideas and i can't help but talk about victor wooten (search victor wooten WS in youtube) : 

(the following is not the exact words, but it happened this way more or less)

Vic : Hey, give me the notes of *some minor scale* 
Dudes in the room : Yeah, they're *notes of this scale* 
Vic : Okay. Anthony, please play for us a chord progression ? 
*chords* 
*amazing solo. Me groovin' in front of my computer, mesmerized, kinda noticing some notes sound quite odd ... * 
Vic : okay, now let's play another solo
*great solo, but overtechnical. But i don't notice anything wrong with the notes at all, but it leaves me puzzled : not that great from the 4-string god, but still his impeccable technique leaves me even more puzzled : this solo should sound great, but it does not ... * 
Vic : Okay guys, which solo did you prefer ? 
Dudes in the room : well, the first one. 
Vic : you'll be surprised to see that i only played it with the wrong notes. So you're music students and you like a solo played only with the wrong notes ? You can change your mind ! 
Dudes : well, we still love the first solo better. 

That conversation is here to explain how important are, besides notes, the feel, the rhythm, the articulation ... (actually you have to watch the video. Every musician will benefit from it, Victor is such a cool guy, the video is 3hr long but it feels like a trip through heaven... hard to explain in words, let's just say it was enlightening and in the same time fascinating and fun ... it just made my heart smile and my mind dance. That's how i feel in front of great musicians doing what they love and sharing their passion). 


So basically, as a guitar teacher, every musician that meets my path gets introduced to jazz. Not that you-have-to-like-jazz-to-be-a-musician at all, but jazz is an important genre, you might as well take a listen. And a lot of what i teach actually comes from jazz but is "adapted" to other music genres. Because with jazz, you can explain metallica or radiohead. Why did those guys choses these notes? What makes that riff so AWESOME ? Though there is always magic.

Because before i leave you (sorry if i sound like a priest right in the middle of a sermon lol), music is magic. It's all about the emotion, and that can't be translated in words ... it's just like any artist, if you have the tools, you can do a better job at transmitting them.

ps : anyway, listen to John Petrucci, Tosin Abasi, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani just to name a few in very different genres from energetic rock (if that even exists) to metal that blew my mind a few months ago out of energy, feel, technicity, super-awesome gear (that matters, and liking great gear is a lot more normal than i once thought) : all these dudes rely heavily on jazz, and i often use their songs as a "bridge" from metal to jazz for my students. 

To me, this is jazz (but to me, almost every music is jazz to some extent, from cuban salsa to progressive metal).

Besides, jazz is a very vast, and very rich musical genre. There is a jazz song for every one of us ... one that really is beyond words to me is "Reincarnation of a lovebird" played by Gil Evans and Steve Lacy. Just ... magic.



> (Giant Steps, anyone?)


Oh yeah \o/ such a fun song to play with.


----------



## loqtrall

I love mixing Jazz with the things my band and I write (all sorts of metal). It not only makes you a better musician in general, but it makes for absolutely fun and interesting song writing.


----------



## metalmonster




----------



## SnowfaLL

I think people seem to confuse jazz with just music theory or using 7th chords.. But really, every type of music can use 7th chords, it doesn't mean it's jazz.

Jazz = Improvising and Syncopation. Thats all it is. Using complex chords and changes is just a part of music theory; even classical music does that sometimes. 

If your song has neither improvising or syncopation, its not jazz haha.

I dunno. I think people shouldn't worry about labeling things, and just realize its all music theory. Play/make whatever you are into.


----------



## Suho

NickCormier said:


> I think people seem to confuse jazz with just music theory or using 7th chords.. But really, every type of music can use 7th chords, it doesn't mean it's jazz.
> 
> Jazz = Improvising and Syncopation. Thats all it is. Using complex chords and changes is just a part of music theory; even classical music does that sometimes.
> 
> If your song has neither improvising or syncopation, its not jazz haha.
> 
> I dunno. I think people shouldn't worry about labeling things, and just realize its all music theory. Play/make whatever you are into.



I would add that the improvising is often based around a melodic theme. Yeah, I love improvising and always have, and I love to play instrumental music and try to come up with cool chord changes, but I don't delude myself into thinking that I am a jazz player. I also don't delude myself in to thinking that I am a metal player, either.  

I think you will always have people defining jazz differently. To some, you have to have a certain sound or play a certain way, and often some will take a traditionalist view of what jazz is. I think that this tends to ignore the progressive elements that made jazz different from the musical roots it sprang from, and the spirit of going outside the bounds of tradition. You can't worry too much how others define it, as long as you enjoy it.


----------



## metalmonster

Guys, X-mas is already over, but i've got a lil' present for you all ! 
https://www.coursera.org/course/improvisation

Berklee's jazz improvisation course. Already went through it once, about to go through it for the second time. To do my homework in time and to revise a bit.

If you're doing this thing as well, just PM me so i create a topic here about the course... cool idea, right ? 

By the way, of course, it's free, and you don't get in any trouble if you don't complete the course. Guy's very smart and talented, very good explanations, very interesting course and straightforward approach. 

Oh, and another enlightening video, victor wooten's workshop ! Really, really enligtening stuff. I recommend you take 3 hours off your day, and watch it. 

 (argh, already mentioned victor's video in another post. Oh well ... it's good enough to be mentioned twice)


----------



## fwd0120

I'm a rock player that can do metal and jazz.


----------



## thearistocat

metalmonster said:


> Guys, X-mas is already over, but i've got a lil' present for you all !
> https://www.coursera.org/course/improvisation
> 
> Berklee's jazz improvisation course. Already went through it once, about to go through it for the second time. To do my homework in time and to revise a bit.
> 
> If you're doing this thing as well, just PM me so i create a topic here about the course... cool idea, right ?
> 
> By the way, of course, it's free, and you don't get in any trouble if you don't complete the course. Guy's very smart and talented, very good explanations, very interesting course and straightforward approach.
> 
> Oh, and another enlightening video, victor wooten's workshop ! Really, really enligtening stuff. I recommend you take 3 hours off your day, and watch it.
> 
> (argh, already mentioned victor's video in another post. Oh well ... it's good enough to be mentioned twice)



That looks interesting... I'll definitely take a look into it. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

I'm a metal guitarist, and whenever I'm in a rut I grab a Jazz book. Works like a charm for rut-busting!


----------



## metalmonster

Oh yeah, jazz is for me like WD-40 for metal. 

@thearistocrat : you're welcome ! send me a PM if you're watching the course on jazz improvisation on coursera, i'd love to have a buddy to talk about all these concepts and perhaps get a broader vision. And it's more fun. Same for the wooten video. I'd love some feedback on it, so it gives me food for thought, and help me broaden my horizons even more.

@fwd0120 : nice tone you have there. And really nice playing, with a nice "wes" feel i'm diggin' a lot. Not only the thumb thing, but also i can hear it in your phrasing and articulation.


----------



## Nykur_Myrkvi

I started out playing metal, studied a bit of jazz (not academically, just on my own time) to get new ideas. I love the occasional jazzy improv but I've yet to actually be in a jazz band. I'd love to start a fusion jazz metal hybrid band.


----------



## CD1221

Just finished watching the first vic wooten workshop video the other day. Best 3 hours I have spent on something in a long time. Seriously outstanding.

You should have made a new thread for that video so more people are aware of it.


----------



## metalmonster

Told you it was amazing ! 

You're right, this content is actually very relevant to music and relevant to this forum... And i'd love people's opinions and views, it's always good to exchange ideas, and perhaps people more knowledgable than me can contribute too and post more interesting stuff ! 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...e-jazz-improvisation-whos-me.html#post3875825 One for the "i want to create a 7-string.org community of people following a free berklee course on jazz improvisation that's easy and free and fun and awesome" (why ? Because it's cool) 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...video-victor-wooten-workshop.html#post3875836 on the vic wooten WS, so people can share ideas about the workshop, perhaps add even more richness and interactiveness to it. 

One last topic went created in the process : http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ja...ongwriting-recording-process.html#post3875841

On songwriting. I really, desperately need to know how other people create music. please help


----------



## DropDizzle

Reading through this thread I see a lot of people being metal players and going to jazz. 

*After I wrote this I put in tl;drs, check for bold*

I'm the opposite, I was mostly a jazz player for most of my musical learning and always liked rock (started with classic rock because most of the mainstream new stuff was so boring in the 90's) but could never find stuff to keep my interest. Then my cousin introduced me to Dream Theater back in the early 2000s and I really dug it of the bat, harmonies, syncopation, no screaming (at the time I didn't like screaming, I do now), chugs, great guitar playing, etc. I had a hard time finding a group that I enjoyed as much as them so I just listened through all their albums randomly and kept on jazzin it up.

Until last year when I saw Tosin Abasi and AAL and decided I wanted an 8 string, for jazz, maybe do some AAL style jazz/metal... "whatever that stuff was" I thought to myself. Read this forum and find out, it's djent. 

It was so funny too because I never read so much absolute love and pure disdain for one genre of music. "It's not a genre! It's a sound!" "Meshuggah is god!" ".... Djent!" "Does it Djent?" I was laughing so hard. I didn't give a shit what people thought about it. I knew the truth, Tosin knew his theory, and it showed. 

So basically, after that I kept hearing people talking about Periphery. So I got their albums and listened. I remember my first thoughts on a few of their songs almost instantly:

MAKE TOTAL DESTROY (possibly the first song I heard from them): intro "Oh sick, nice line... syncopation, wtf is the drummer playing... he's good... damn they are tight, lots of post production sound but creative, clearly these guys aren't doing straight metal with only one harmonic minor scale and diminished scales." Then it got to the chorus "damn, kinda punk rock nasaly-ish voice, but he's got pipes AND he knows great vocal technique" Get to the verse "GOD DAMN HE'S GOT GOOD VOCAL TECHNIQUE AND THEY CAN LINE UP THE HITS TO BE IN BETWEEN THE SPACES OF THE LINES THESE GUYS ARE ....ING AMAZING!!!" Get to the next instrumental interlude right before the chorus again that has the cool syncopated rhythm "Wow, great tone on the guitars, and that drummer! He's got 8th notes on the high hat, hitting the bass syncopation with the guitars, crashing cymbals in between the spaces to great accents AND HITTING GHOST NOTES!"

I was sold. Periphery has been my favorite band for this past year and I'm liking djent as a whole. I finally was able to find a metal style that IMO holds enough musicality to keep my interest to listen to the song more than once.

*tl;dr for that section* I'm a jazz player of 14 years and wanted to find interesting metal but I couldn't until I listened to Periphery.

Another thought: A lot of jazzy metal is mostly metal, with "some" jazz stuff thrown in. I think it would be interesting to have 51% jazz/49% metal. As in, keep the "true" format of jazz where improv and communication within your band is the main point, but contain the "styles and characteristics" of metal. IDK how that would sound especially since harmony becomes so muddy with distortion and it's hard to nail down the concept of a "form" when some of the best metal is "progressive", not to mention riff based vs chord based.

Guthrie Govan is probably the closest person I've heard to be able to come close to doing that, especially in "Have a Blast".

*tl;dr- I'd like to either make or hear a jazz based metal instead of metal with jazz added* And not just shredding, but chugs, thrashes, blasts, even vocals with screams and scat. The musicians would have to be top notch.


Which brings me to my final point. I read a lot of people saying they like using jazz as the grease to increase their playing skill because it's so much easier to come back to metal and dominate. I agree. Being a jazz player for as long as I have, I find most metal to be direct, straightforward, and even some complex stuff is easy to get down the syncopation. There is some jazz I've worked through that I literally had to start it off at 1/4 tempo (bebop) and other stuff that I had to listen to one line for 30-40 min to get the syncopation lined up correctly (modern stuff).

I really think your average jazz player could learn average metal in half the time it takes your average metal player to learn average jazz. No offense to you guys here that are metal players, I love the shit out of metal and there are a lot of great players. But there's no arguing that in terms of raw skill, it's much harder to get down a jazz song and make it really enjoyable to the community. I think most would agree or they wouldn't use jazz as that tool to up their playing. What jazz players do you see trying to practice metal that wouldn't fall under the jazz category already so they can improve their playing? Doesn't happen. 

*final tl;dr- it's easier to go from jazz to metal than metal to jazz, take the meaning of that as you will*

Thanks for reading my silly rant.


----------



## kekkuliheikki

Brief.

Jazz is a lifetime of study but IMMENSE help when playing other styles.

Learn the blues first though...


----------



## Eclipse

Jazz studies have helped my composition a lot. I'm a solid guitar player because of my dedication to and performances in jazz.


----------



## Hallic

this guy is doing it 
Clément Belio
^^


----------



## insanebassninja

I play the blues and metal. Howevery I want to learn Jazz as well


----------



## TylerEstes

I have a question for you guys. My only guitar is a 7 string with active pickups that I'll be using to play Carnifex type stuff on, but I'm also really really interested in learning how to play jazz, blues, and surf rock. What tuning would be the best all around for these? I'm okay with slightly changing the tuning, but I don't want to set up my guitar every time I change tunings since it has a Floyd Rose. I'm considering using drop A, but that's only with deathcore in mind. Is jazz feasible in drop A? That question is probably hilarious, but I'm still new to jazz. I'm only trying to make due until I can get a Strat or Gibson or Gretsch.


----------



## InfinityCollision

George van Eps used drop tunings (A and later G) throughout his career. Many others have followed suit. You'll be in well-trod territory if you opt for drop-tuning


----------



## lemniscate

Metal to jazz. Kenny G isn't releasing a brutal death metal album, anytime soon.


----------



## SnowfaLL

lemniscate said:


> Metal to jazz. Kenny G isn't releasing a brutal death metal album, anytime soon.



but its very possible his son might.. He's even a poster here I believe..


----------



## TylerEstes

InfinityCollision said:


> George van Eps used drop tunings (A and later G) throughout his career. Many others have followed suit. You'll be in well-trod territory if you opt for drop-tuning



That's good. I wasn't too sure as I haven't been into jazz that long. Any other jazz guitarists that down tune?


----------



## SevenString

TylerEstes said:


> That's good. I wasn't too sure as I haven't been into jazz that long. Any other jazz guitarists that down tune?



Drop A is very common for 7-string jazz players. With this tuning, voicings that use a fingered 5th (A) string as a "bass" note are easy to adapt to use 7th string instead.

I play an 8, and when I play jazz, I tune to drop A and drop E for the 7th and 8th strings.


----------



## DropDizzle

SevenString said:


> I play an 8, and when I play jazz, I tune to drop A and drop E for the 7th and 8th strings.


 
I do the same. That way I can focus less on relearning my chord structures and just maintain the voicings I'm used to.


----------



## celticelk

^^^ For those of who play in EAEADGBE for easy access to octave-below roots using standard jazz chord voicings: did any of you ever consider using something like the Boss OC-20G PolyOctave, which allows you to selectively drop the bottom strings an octave (using a GK pickup), with a standard 6-string?


----------



## SevenString

celticelk said:


> ^^^ For those of who play in EAEADGBE for easy access to octave-below roots using standard jazz chord voicings: did any of you ever consider using something like the Boss OC-20G PolyOctave, which allows you to selectively drop the bottom strings an octave (using a GK pickup), with a standard 6-string?



Good idea for a 6 player, but since I've played ERGs for over 2 decades and am now very comfortable with 8s, that would solve a problem I don't actually have.


----------



## Eric Von Kimble

I play both but I started out the rock and metal. Went to school for Jazz and learned a lot of theory and standards, now I like to incorporate both in my music.

Artists like Greg Howe or Frank Gambale may pique your interest


----------



## InfinityCollision

celticelk said:


> ^^^ For those of who play in EAEADGBE for easy access to octave-below roots using standard jazz chord voicings: did any of you ever consider using something like the Boss OC-20G PolyOctave, which allows you to selectively drop the bottom strings an octave (using a GK pickup), with a standard 6-string?



That never occurred to me prior to discovering 7s, but I don't think I would have been satisfied with the results in any case. Just thinking it over, it seems like that would limit voicings (or at least voice leading) in ways I find undesirable.

Out of curiosity, do you know of anyone doing that?


----------



## algtrdom

I've used the Boss OC-3 for a long time for the purpose you were talking about. Its best feature is the range option, which allows you to set the register of the lowest octave, amazing. Bad part is...really bad tracking, tends to be very muddy and boomy.

By the way, a while ago I posted a video of one of my bands and some of you enjoyed it. Here's something new, and I believe it shows how rock/metal can live with jazz/improvisation. Hope you dig it! 


'Jägala' live by ÖPIK-3 - YouTube


----------



## DropDizzle

celticelk said:


> ^^^ For those of who play in EAEADGBE for easy access to octave-below roots using standard jazz chord voicings: did any of you ever consider using something like the Boss OC-20G PolyOctave, which allows you to selectively drop the bottom strings an octave (using a GK pickup), with a standard 6-string?



That's an interesting idea and I think it would work if you're okay with missing the upper bass sections. However, even on my 8-string doing jazz I don't always walk my bass lines on the two lowest. Probably about 50-60% of the time I'm down there. It's nice to bring it up for the mood ebb and flow. After all, when was the last time you heard Ron Carter stay on his two lowest strings for very long?


----------



## jimwratt

I started playing guitar at 12 and my parents basically forced me into Jazz (and classical to a lesser extent). I just wanted to rock and roll. I never found jazz that appealing as a guitarist, but I definitely learned how it works and have a pretty good chord vocabulary from it. I'm just the opposite if the guys who started off in metal but didn't have the vibe for it. I play jazz for fun, but it never felt natural. Fortunately, my high school jazz band played related music like Latin classics, fusion, and r&b. I love those and feel as fluent in them as I do with rock and metal.

Also, everybody should check out Sonny Sharrock.


----------



## HexaneLake

I've always played and listened to metal since around age 11. These days I'm really attracted towards jazz guitarists like Adam Rogers, Lage Lund. I think a step towards jazz is next for me in my musical career. I will never stop playing metal tho lol.


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## SevenString

I sometimes do live shows where in a single night I do everything from jazz to prog metal, with country, soul, R&B, dance music, classic rock, etc. mixed in too. Some eclectic crowds seem to dig the variety.

Anyway, I typically start the evenings like this with classic jazz and ramp up from there. By going in this order with jazz as the "warmup" material, the metal stuff (at least on guitar) gets easy in comparison. My metal soloing is also much more fluid and melodic when I keep my head in a "jazz" space.

I hope I didn't already say this stuff in an earlier post, but it's been a while since I visited. 


That said, I can relate to the "never stop playing metal" thing. Even banging out an old Priest, Accept, or Dio tune is still satisfying after all these years.


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## algtrdom

Here's a free improvisation taken from a recent gig with my band (some Drop B stuff in there): 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/ilusorecords/zobik-3-free-improv-encore-at-touzon-abetxuko[/SC]

hope you dig it!


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