# My Multiscale 7 String Neck-thru Build



## Gregori (Feb 11, 2013)

I have recently started another build, a 7-string, multiscale neck-thru. It's been pretty confusing so far, loads of planning. 

Scale: 25.5"-27"
Construction: Neck-thru
Neck: 5-piece wenge/maple
Fretboard: Macassar Ebony
Wings: Spanish Cedar
Top: Carved Walnut(either black or Peruvian)
Pickups: One custom-made humbucker in the bridge(I'll be making that myself...with wooden bobbins. Should be fun )
Tuners: Gotoh
Bridge: Made by me(using graphtech saddles)

So far I've got the wood and bridge ready to go, except I'm looking for a new top. I bought some curly Peruvian walnut, but it's not big enough for a carved top, which I've now decided is something I really want. So I'm going to find something else locally.

I've never worked with wenge before. Besides the obvious problems, that it's super heavy and it splinters something fierce, it also likes to move when cut. Apparently, the wood is loaded with tension. I'm pretty worried about it twisting on me, even as a 5-piece neck. I've read horror stories about Warwick bass necks twisting, even 5 and 7-pieces. I might invest in some of those carbon fiber rods stewmac sells for added insurance. 

The bridge came out pretty good, except for one intonation screw hole, which is off by 1mm . I'm not very experienced with metal working, I didn't really expect the drill bit to skate like it did. I might make a new base plate later on if I have time, but this one should work just fine. I used some "Appliance Epoxy" paint on it, and baked it for an hour at 400 degrees after each coat. It seems like it's a very hard finish. I did 5 coats all together. 

As for the intonation screws, that was an adventure trying to find something that would work. I ended up using M4 philips head screw and shaving down the head on a drill press to make them fit in the saddles. Then I painted and baked those. 

Ok, enough talk, here are some pics:


















This piece of ebony I found is just gorgeous:





Bridge construction:

























After painting and recessing some holes:





All put together:


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## HOKENSTYFE (Feb 11, 2013)

First, Congrats on the project! That is indeed an amazing looking piece of ebony. That bridge is looking pretty good so far.

Good luck & much success!


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## F0rte (Feb 11, 2013)

Stoked to see this build come along.
So far it's killer as hell.
Great work on the bridge, by the way.


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## Furtive Glance (Feb 11, 2013)

Yeah, that ebony is gorgeous!


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## Chocopuppet (Feb 11, 2013)

One of the sexiest pieces of ebony I've ever seen!
Godspeed, good sir.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice work, dude!
The bridge is a bit too large, imo. I would have done it to have something like 1mm around the saddles. But anyway, that looks really cool!


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## Pikka Bird (Feb 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> The bridge came out pretty good, except for one intonation screw hole, which is off by 1mm . I'm not very experienced with metal working, I didn't really expect the drill bit to skate like it did.



Even when you had it in that contraption? A centre punch would be enough to keep things from slipping, right?


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## Gregori (Feb 11, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Nice work, dude!
> The bridge is a bit too large, imo. I would have done it to have something like 1mm around the saddles. But anyway, that looks really cool!


The first base plate I cut out was around 4mm for the saddle to the side, and it didn't look like enough to me. It looked too narrow. Once I get further, I'll be able to put it on the guitar and see how it all looks together. I'm definitely not opposed to altering it.


Pikka Bird said:


> Even when you had it in that contraption? A centre punch would be enough to keep things from slipping, right?



Probably. I didn't even think of that, I might have to get one of those.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Probably. I didn't even think of that, I might have to get one of those.


You didn't "point" before drilling your base plate? If yes, that explains everything. You can do it with your bit and a hammer.

About the plate, I'll also wait to see how it looks with the guitar complete. The work is great btw!


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## skeels (Feb 11, 2013)

Looking great! Very inspirational!


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## ElRay (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice work.



Gregori said:


> ... I didn't really expect the drill bit to skate like it did. ...



Center punches are your friends, even with a drill press. Also, don't underestimate the value of pilot holes.


I added the "member built" tag. Please post over here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...1-guitars-built-members-ss-org-pic-heavy.html when you get a chance.

Ray


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## Gregori (Feb 11, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> You didn't "point" before drilling your base plate? If yes, that explains everything. You can do it with your bit and a hammer.





ElRay said:


> Center punches are your friends, even with a drill press. Also, don't underestimate the value of pilot holes.






Wll, I feel dumb for not googling this now. I guess I just assumed it would be like drilling wood.


ElRay said:


> I added the "member built" tag. Please post over here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...1-guitars-built-members-ss-org-pic-heavy.html when you get a chance.
> 
> Ray


I thought that thread was for completed build?


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## Necromagnon (Feb 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Wll, I feel dumb for not googling this now. I guess I just assumed it would be like drilling wood.


Personnaly, I do it also on wood. There's less chance that drill slip, but there's still some, specially with for little holes. So, I take no chance and point everytime I need to drill something, no matter what and which size.

Anyway, you're here to learn. Next plate will be perfect. 
(and if you can do a little "how to" for the epoxy coating, I'll be very interested.  )


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## Gregori (Feb 12, 2013)

Sooo...I'm borrowing one of those auto center punch thingies from someone on Thursday, and I'll be making a new base plate Friday night....yay


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## Walterson (Feb 12, 2013)

I have seen you first build and think this is going to be awesome... I'm watching closely...


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## Gregori (Feb 16, 2013)

Progress is slow on this right now, which sucks. I'm so wrapped up in planning each step so I don't make a huge mistake that complicates things, that it feels like nothing is getting done. But things should be gaining some momentum pretty soon(hopefully).

Here's a few pics of the templates I made for the body and fretboard. That's the old bridge, right now I have the new base plate baking in the oven, so it should be done pretty soon. For anyone interested in the process, I just sand up to 320 until everything is nice and smooth, spray it from about 8 inches away until everything is covered, then pop it in the oven at 400 degrees for 1 hour. Then rinse and repeat 4 more times.

Anyway those pics:


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## AwDeOh (Feb 17, 2013)

Gregori said:


> I'm so wrapped up in planning each step so I don't make a huge mistake that complicates things, that it feels like nothing is getting done.



I know that feeling.

That ebony is so frigging awesome man, so so nice. The horns on the body look excellent too, very close to what I'm planning in my build.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 17, 2013)

This body shape is really classy.


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## F0rte (Feb 17, 2013)

The access the bottom horn gives is seriously great too. It reminds me of the Cut Away on the RC7G, but it looks much more subtle.
Pics of dat bridge!


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## Gregori (Feb 17, 2013)

I completely forgot to take a pic of the new bridge, so I'll have to do that whenever I get a chance. Today I cut and planed the face of the headstock and installed the truss rod. I also made a headstock template to see how I like the shape. I think it compliments the body shape very nicely. 















Also, wenge is the devil. Heavy, very prone to massive movement when cut, splinters like mad on a planer and even a jointer, and the splinters I've had are like jamming sewing needles into my fingers. It's definitely not a preferred wood for me.


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## AwDeOh (Feb 18, 2013)

Gregori said:


>








JFC the color of that maple gets me hard every time. Contrasts so nicely with darker woods.


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## Walterson (Feb 18, 2013)

Gregori said:


>



Please let the end of the fretboard end follow the nut.... to me it looks it looks so much more elegant when it is done that way!


just to make clear what I'm talking about:

nice:






not even close to nice:





All you need to do ist to angle the headstock sideways....


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## Bodes (Feb 18, 2013)

Walterson said:


> Please let the end of the fretboard end follow the nut.... to me it looks it looks so much more elegant when it is done that way!
> 
> 
> just to make clear what I'm talking about:
> ...



Agreed 100 fold


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## Gregori (Feb 18, 2013)

Walterson said:


> Please let the end of the fretboard end follow the nut.... to me it looks it looks so much more elegant when it is done that way!
> 
> 
> just to make clear what I'm talking about:
> ...


I agree that the Conklin looks pretty bad. I was thinking of using a zero fret, but having the string spacer(the "nut") at the end of the fretboard. The fan comes from the 5th fret, so there isn't much of a fan going on by the zero fret anyway. That fretboard template I made is actually off by about 3/16 at the zero fret, so it looks like the fan is more extreme than it is. 

I don't even think it's possible at this point to do what that Ormsby has done. I've already installed the truss rod and routed the access channel


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## Walterson (Feb 18, 2013)

Gregori said:


> I've already installed the truss rod and routed the access channel



Oh, I haven't seen that pic.... It may be possible, but not easy, maybe it's better lo leave it like it is now....


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## Necromagnon (Feb 18, 2013)

I agree with Walterson: I much prefer the nut and end of the fb following the fan, like that Ormsby. But it impose to have an angle on the plane of the headstock, like this:





So now, it's too late. :/


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## Gregori (Feb 18, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> I agree with Walterson: I much prefer the nut and end of the fb following the fan, like that Ormsby. But it impose to have an angle on the plane of the headstock, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, that look like it would require more planning, and be easy to screw up if done without a jig.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 18, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Damn, that look like it would require more planning, and be easy to screw up if done without a jig.


I've started with a jig, and started to screw up the joint so I finished by hand to reach this. And it works really fin. In fact, it's not harder than an usual straight joint. It's just kinda weird...


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## silent_k (Feb 18, 2013)

There was a build on Talkbass a couple of years back that detailed (among a great many other things) how the builder cut a compound scarf joint for the headstock of his 5-string multiscale bass: Practice build: 5-string multi-scale, HD woods - Page 4 - TalkBass Forums. This link goes directly to the page with the pictures of the jig, but the whole thread is worth checking out. Lots of very clever tools and processes, responding to and bouncing back from mistakes and setbacks, etc. I realize the OP has already cut the headstock angle but this might be useful for next time.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 18, 2013)

It's not that hard. On my side, I just took 2 triangles made out of mdf, with the angle of the headstock (something like 15° I guess, don't remember exactly, and no matter), and just moved back the one on the treble side of the distance needed to fit the angle, clamp it on the side of the neck blanck, and just route the joint plane with the router and a "U" jig.

It works pretty fine, but the thing that screws me up is that the edge of my triangles supports were square. So the support thickness was not coplanar, thus the support was really unstable. To prevent it, I think it's better to do hemispherical edges, so that you can do every angle you want with the same jigs. 
(I don't know if this is clear...  )


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## Gregori (Feb 18, 2013)

silent_k said:


> There was a build on Talkbass a couple of years back that detailed (among a great many other things) how the builder cut a compound scarf joint for the headstock of his 5-string multiscale bass: Practice build: 5-string multi-scale, HD woods - Page 4 - TalkBass Forums. This link goes directly to the page with the pictures of the jig, but the whole thread is worth checking out. Lots of very clever tools and processes, responding to and bouncing back from mistakes and setbacks, etc. I realize the OP has already cut the headstock angle but this might be useful for next time.


Interesting jig he made, but I don't have a scarf joint. I suppose the same thing could work for me, but It'd still need a way to cut out and thickness the back of the headstock. 

I was thinking some sort of jig for the router might be feasible.


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## Walterson (Feb 19, 2013)

Gregori said:


> ....but It'd still need a way to cut out and thickness the back of the headstock.



I planed the back of the headstock with the Wagner Safety Planer in my drillpress.... works perfect.

Thats how I did it on this build: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...-string-multiscale-many-pics.html#post3297251


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## Gregori (Feb 19, 2013)

Walterson said:


> I planed the back of the headstock with the Wagner Safety Planer in my drillpress.... works perfect.
> 
> Thats how I did it on this build: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...-string-multiscale-many-pics.html#post3297251


I love that guitar. I usually don't like such unconventional guitars, but that one looks pretty sweet. 

I will definitely keep the safety planer in mind.


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## silent_k (Feb 19, 2013)

The safety planer is a pretty handy tool -- the original version is no longer made but another company has released their own: Woodworker.com: WOODTEK® 24-760 DRILL PRESS PLANER. I think I've seen other clones out there, too. 

Build looks great, by the way!


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## Necromagnon (Feb 19, 2013)

silent_k said:


> The safety planer is a pretty handy tool -- the original version is no longer made but another company has released their own: Woodworker.com: WOODTEK® 24-760 DRILL PRESS PLANER. I think I've seen other clones out there, too.
> 
> Build looks great, by the way!


We have a short talk about the safe-t-planer and it's new replacement by another company, but I don't remember the thread... Maybe the jigs thread?


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## AwDeOh (Feb 19, 2013)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...ustomizations/225503-using-router-planer.html


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## capoeiraesp (Feb 20, 2013)

Walterson said:


> Please let the end of the fretboard end follow the nut.... to me it looks it looks so much more elegant when it is done that way!
> 
> 
> just to make clear what I'm talking about:
> ...



I approve of this suggested approach.


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## Gregori (Feb 22, 2013)

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking(someone please tell me if it won't work for some reason).

I'm thinking I'll build a scarf joint/headstock angle router jig, like this one:






but I'll make one side(the treble side) lower than the other. This should give me compound angle. I'll take the distance from the nut/zero fret to where the nut would be if it weren't fanned, then I'll remove that distance from the height on the treble side of the jig. I'm thinking that will give me the proper fan at the zero fret. 

I'm basing this on absolutely nothing, except that it makes sense in my head. 

I have to fix the headstock anyway, since I realized last night that the truss rod access channel intersects with a tuner  I should be ok though, since I have about 6 inches extra on my blank right now.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 22, 2013)

Gregori said:


> but I'll make one side(the treble side) lower than the other. This should give me compound angle. I'll take the distance from the nut/zero fret to where the nut would be if it weren't fanned, then I'll remove that distance from the height on the treble side of the jig. I'm thinking that will give me the proper fan at the zero fret.


You're almost there. What I'd advise you is just, instead of doing on side smaller, make the two stricly identical. Then, you just move the piece from the treble side a bit backward. You'll have the same angle, but you will still be able to use this jig for straight scale guitar.


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## Gregori (Feb 22, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> You're almost there. What I'd advise you is just, instead of doing on side smaller, make the two stricly identical. Then, you just move the piece from the treble side a bit backward. You'll have the same angle, but you will still be able to use this jig for straight scale guitar.



That sounds feasible. Would I move it back the same distance as my measurement from a regular nut to my fanned nut?


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## Necromagnon (Feb 22, 2013)

Gregori said:


> That sounds feasible. Would I move it back the same distance as my measurement from a regular nut to my fanned nut?


No, as your two pieces are a farther one from each other than the distance bass/treble string.
You have to find the angle of the nut, so either you use a protractor (thanks wordreference  ), or you play with trigonometry.


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## Gregori (Feb 22, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> No, as your two pieces are a farther one from each other than the distance bass/treble string.
> You have to find the angle of the nut, so either you use a protractor (thanks wordreference  ), or you play with trigonometry.



Damnit, this is where I get confused. So if I draw a straight line across the two sides, then I move one back until I reach that angle between the two marks, would I be good to go? I suck at math.


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## Necromagnon (Feb 22, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Damnit, this is where I get confused. So if I draw a straight line across the two sides, then I move one back until I reach that angle between the two marks, would I be good to go? I suck at math.


Yep!
Also, try to do triangle support a bit thin. Or round the top edge (the one on which the router will slide). If not, you can have some issues because of the edge drawing two planes that are not coplanar (if you see what I mean).


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## Gregori (Feb 22, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Yep!
> Also, try to do triangle support a bit thin. Or round the top edge (the one on which the router will slide). If not, you can have some issues because of the edge drawing two planes that are not coplanar (if you see what I mean).



I think I see what you mean. I'll probably just round the edge on a table router then. 

Thank you so much for your help, you've been a life saver.


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## Gregori (Feb 23, 2013)

The jig works great 
















I also routed channels for two carbon fiber rods. This wenge has made me pretty paranoid.


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## skeels (Feb 23, 2013)

Excellent progress, man! 

I'm planning out a fanned 8 string and all the remarks have been very helpful. I'm going to try to angle the headstock in the same fashion. 

I realize now I also need to sharpen my jig-building skills.

Great bridge plate too!


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## Necromagnon (Feb 24, 2013)

PS: you've routed the channels with chisels? Nice!


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## AwDeOh (Feb 25, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> PS: you've routed the channels with chisels? Nice!


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## Gregori (Feb 25, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> PS: you've routed the channels with chisels? Nice!



 nope, just cleaned up the corners with them


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## Necromagnon (Feb 25, 2013)

Gregori said:


> nope, just cleaned up the corners with them


Oh... 
Dillusion...


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## superash (Feb 25, 2013)

that ebony is gorgeous. really giving me wood man.

Can't wait to see the final results


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## Walterson (Feb 26, 2013)

Gregori said:


>


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## Gregori (Mar 9, 2013)

Finally, this is starting to feel more like building a guitar and less like a science project. 

I'm bad at remembering to take pics of each step, but here are some pics I took today. I recessed the top for the claro walnut top I ordered from Oregon Wild Wood, glued on the wings, cut the neck pocket in the top, and shaped and glued it on. 

I wish I'd taken some pics of gluing the wings. I know a lot of people like to use a dowel or something to align the wings and neck, but I just clamped everything down to a polished marble slab and then clamped the wings to neck. This is definitely a method that's worthy of consideration. 

Top and body, ready for glue-up:






Gluing the top on(think I used enough clamps?):






After glue-up and routing sides:










And an idea for the carve. What do you guys think? It wouldn't be a contoured carve, just a straight angle:


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## skeels (Mar 9, 2013)

I like the idea for the carved top.

I also like your wing-gluing idea- I'm going to run out and buy a polished marble slab!

Oh, wait. Hehe. I'm broke.



This is coming out awesome!


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## Gregori (Mar 10, 2013)

skeels said:


> I also like your wing-gluing idea- I'm going to run out and buy a polished marble slab!



Actually, it was a granite slab(probably cheaper). But the beauty of it is you can probably get a piece for free from a local stone counter-top place if you look through their dumpster, or maybe even ask for a free piece. I don't know why, but the street where I work has like 10 of those places.


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## Walterson (Mar 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> I recessed the top for the claro walnut top I ordered from Oregon Wild Wood, glued on the wings, cut the neck pocket in the top, and shaped and glued it on.



How did you do that? The neckpocket on the top looks like a very tight fit!


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## AwDeOh (Mar 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Actually, it was a granite slab(probably cheaper). But the beauty of it is you can probably get a piece for free from a local stone counter-top place if you look through their dumpster, or maybe even ask for a free piece. I don't know why, but the street where I work has like 10 of those places.



Are you able to explain what you did with the granite slab? I'm not following..


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## Necromagnon (Mar 11, 2013)

Few things regarding the pics:


Gregori said:


>


You should not clamp directly on your wood. it could do a lot of marks that will piss you off. With the carving, it will go away, but for the back for example, it could mark it for life. 



Gregori said:


>


Dat back!! 



Gregori said:


>


I would do a line that join the side just at the edge of the little horn on the ass. I'll do an awesome paint mockup:





Like this, but with more fluid curves and all.


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## Gregori (Mar 11, 2013)

Walterson said:


> How did you do that? The neckpocket on the top looks like a very tight fit!



I used something very similar to this, except using a fretboard template instead of a neck:








AwDeOh said:


> Are you able to explain what you did with the granite slab? I'm not following..



Hmmm, let me try to explain this. Basically I propped the slab up off of the bench so I could clamp to the bottom of it. Then I placed the neck and wings on the slab, face down. I put them how I wanted them to be, then I clamped them down to the slab(not too tight). I then ran pipe clamps across the wings, from one side to the other, to glue the wings to the neck. 

It's really quite simple(but I wish I'd taken a pic of that). The goal is butt the top of the guitar to the flat surface tight enough so the wings and neck will be forced into alignment. 



Necromagnon said:


> Few things regarding the pics:
> 
> You should not clamp directly on your wood. it could do a lot of marks that will piss you off. With the carving, it will go away, but for the back for example, it could mark it for life.


I definitely wouldn't clamp to the wood if I wasn't planning to carve it. I used the body template on the back, and a pice of MDF down the center to avoid denting areas that wouldn't be carved.


Necromagnon said:


> I would do a line that join the side just at the edge of the little horn on the ass. I'll do an awesome paint mockup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually that's very similar to the first carve idea I had, but for some reason I changed it to the other one. But I think I will go with your idea because it does look better. Thanks for the input!


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## skeels (Mar 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Actually, it was a granite slab(probably cheaper). But the beauty of it is you can probably get a piece for free from a local stone counter-top place if you look through their dumpster, or maybe even ask for a free piece. I don't know why, but the street where I work has like 10 of those places.


 

The irony is that there is a stone cutting place down the street from my house, but I am afraid that if I could haul it over in my car and it didn't bottom out, and then managed to get it up two flights of stairs into my attic and actually had room to put it somewhere- it would then crash through my ceiling and crush my roommate, who hasn't left the couch in several weeks.

Hm. Maybe I should give it a shot.

AND I just saw two marble slabs on CL for 100$! HAHA! They are only about 6 inches thick and weigh about 350 pounds each.... 

Sweet. 

Did I mention your build is looking sweet?

Hey, where are you doing all this work? Your shop space looks awesome! It makes my dank, cold cave look like a dank, cold cave..

Sweet.


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## Gregori (Mar 12, 2013)

Jesus dude, a 6 inch slab is overkill. Maybe more like 2 inches.

I do the wood working program at Red Rocks. The shop is pretty awesome, but it's way too crowed during the week. Saturdays are great for getting caught up though.

And were you wired on energy drinks when you wrote that?


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## Necromagnon (Mar 12, 2013)

Gregori said:


> And were you wired on energy drinks when you wrote that?


Mixed with what? 



> I definitely wouldn't clamp to the wood if I wasn't planning to carve it. I used the body template on the back, and a pice of MDF down the center to avoid denting areas that wouldn't be carved.


Didn't see the template on the back. 



> Actually that's very similar to the first carve idea I had, but for some reason I changed it to the other one. But I think I will go with your idea because it does look better. Thanks for the input!


This is something I really like on those body shapes with a carved/chamfered top. I don't know why, but I really think it looks cool, and alos, it take the whole contour up to just something common and "flat".


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## HanSulu (Mar 12, 2013)

Gregori said:


>







This is coming along beautifully, Can't wait to see the finished product. I've always loved the look of different types of wood contrasting against each other.


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## Suitable (Mar 13, 2013)

That timber  what are you going to finish it with? 

That's some nice work dude! Keep it up!


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## pondman (Mar 13, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Finally, this is starting to feel more like building a guitar and less like a science project.
> 
> I'm bad at remembering to take pics of each step, but here are some pics I took today. I recessed the top for the claro walnut top I ordered from Oregon Wild Wood, glued on the wings, cut the neck pocket in the top, and shaped and glued it on.
> 
> ...



This is a perfect build . Love everything about it


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## Gregori (Mar 19, 2013)

I don't recall if I've mentioned this already, but I'm going to be cutting the fretboard and fret slots out on a CNC. I'm using http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/ for the measurements and VCarve for drawing it up and plotting the tool paths: 






I ran a test piece(MDF) tonight to make sure everything worked alright. 















I think it was a success! Those 3 guide lines are just in there for the heck of it. It's ready to be cut out, but the only problem is I'll have to wait a few weeks for the small bit and collet to go with it 

I'll probably use the CNC to cut out the parts for my wooden humbucker bobbins. I'm thinking a wenge pickup will look very nice


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## Gregori (Mar 19, 2013)

Suitable said:


> That timber  what are you going to finish it with?
> 
> That's some nice work dude! Keep it up!



Thanks! I'm going to use tru-oil for the finish.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 19, 2013)

Subscribed man. Can't wait to see it done.


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## Steinmetzify (Apr 8, 2013)

Where you at man? Jonesing for updates! Is it close? Done? Slays so much you can't put it down and drag it everywhere with you?


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## Suitable (Apr 8, 2013)

I am thinking the silent lengthened delays of updating his progress that Gregori is forcing upon us is indeed IMO a tactical manover, to help aid to the "on the edge of chair, chomping at the bit, pulling hair out" suspense factor, building to a megabolical blown away WOW reaction by us all (which is what it will be from your progress so far!!! ) thinking metaphorically from a diabolical point of view that is.

Updates PLEASE  

Ps CNC fretboard! Awesome! Can we send you blanks with specks and you machine them for us? At a cost of course!


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## Gregori (Apr 9, 2013)

Sorry guys, I'm terrible at remembering to take my camera with me and take pics. I always forget, and my cellphone camera is terrible, so I decide to take more pics next time, then I forget again....

Progress is slower than I'd like. I carved the top, cut out the headstock, and routed the control cavity. I was supposed to do the fretboard on the CNC tonight, but that didn't happen, so now I have to wait another week :/ I drew up the pickup bobbins in VCarve, so I should be cutting those out on the CNC in the next few weeks as well. 

I'd love to get something going where I could cut out fretboards for people in the future, but I'll need better CNC access for that, as well as more experience. I can definitely see the appeal of using a CNC on a fanned fretboard.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 9, 2013)

Are you doing your work at a college or shared workshop or something Gregori?


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## Gregori (Apr 9, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Are you doing your work at a college or shared workshop or something Gregori?



Unfortunately yes, I am doing it at a school. Wish I had my own shop right about now.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 9, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Unfortunately


??? 

Man, you're so lucky! I'd like to be able to work my luthiery at work. I once work in a plastic machining company, with all the wood working heavy tools (thicknesser, saw table, etc.) and it was really awesome to be able to take 1 or 2 hours after work to do the big stuff. It allows me to things easily, without buying huge machines.

But keep us on updates, we all want it (well, at least the 4 of us here  ).


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## AwDeOh (Apr 9, 2013)

I can't do without a workshop at home. Nobody bitches when I play Behemoth (cept the neighbors), nobody bitches when I smoke over a pile of wood dust, nobody bitches when I come home trashed and do some drunken woodworking (cept the neighbors).


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## Necromagnon (Apr 9, 2013)

Behemoth, one of my favs band. 

I agree, having your own workshop is really awesome, and I'd like to have mine also (I'm trying to find a place because my leaving room is not big enough...  ), but when you can't have the place, and you don't have the money to rent one and buy the machines, it's really great to be able to have access to them.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 9, 2013)

Not having big machinery has actually been really fun for me. It's more that I'm not willing to buy bigger stuff right now, since I tend to move countries a bit. When I lived in Australia I owned a full Triton 2000 system with all the accessories, plus a ton of great power tools, which I had to leave behind when I moved back to NZ. Still sad about it. Luckily all my luthiery tools were kept separate and are on their way to me in the mail now 

It means I get to play mad inventor, devising different ways to do things. Now that my router/saw sled system is coming together I should be able to do pretty much everything, from undressed timber to finished guitar, on one medium sized bench


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## Suitable (Apr 9, 2013)

^ Pics and details of this router/saw sled system PLEASE!!! I really like router/saw sled system things!!!


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## AwDeOh (Apr 10, 2013)

I'll take pics when it's finished, right now it's just framing till I can get my hands on some iron and a welder. Essentially it's a regular router/circular saw sled, but I'm doing it in steel with bearing runners and stuff so it's ultra smooth and accurate. 

For sawing, I'll have threaded rods all the way down the length on both sides, which tighten toward the center, acting as positioning clamps so I can get really accurate cuts, especially for the tapered pieces I'm planning on doing in my next neck.

For routing it'll just be a really accurate thicknesser/face planer. Bolts underneath so that I can raise up a piece of wood and do neck angles and other angle planing. I'm hoping the degree of accuracy will be such that a planed face will be perfectly jointed and ready for gluing.. the results I'm getting from my straight cutter have been really encouraging. 

I haven't decided how to do the limit stops, but they'll be available so that if I want to route, say a wide channel in something, I just need to set the width/length stops and go for it.

I've also been thinking about linking a pantograph arm into the mix so that I can do really finely detailed engraving.. perhaps even inlays too.


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## Gregori (Apr 11, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> ???
> 
> Man, you're so lucky! I'd like to be able to work my luthiery at work. I once work in a plastic machining company, with all the wood working heavy tools (thicknesser, saw table, etc.) and it was really awesome to be able to take 1 or 2 hours after work to do the big stuff. It allows me to things easily, without buying huge machines.
> 
> But keep us on updates, we all want it (well, at least the 4 of us here  ).



Well, it definitely beats not having a place to do my work. But I'd much rather have my own shop. I'm shopping for a house now, so hopefully I will sometime in the near future. I'm definitely looking into building or buying a CNC as well.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Well, it definitely beats not having a place to do my work. But I'd much rather have my own shop. I'm shopping for a house now, so hopefully I will sometime in the near future. I'm definitely looking into building or buying a CNC as well.


I'm looking for a workshop (a garage unused by neighbours or something), but it's so expensive around here in France... 
About CNC, I personnaly see no use for it. Having templates made by laser cutting (we work with our forum with a french guy doing it, and doing some retail for us) is largely sufficient, unless you want to have a complete line of guitar with all the same body shape. Programming the cutting path is very long, and CNC expensive, so you have to build a lot to compentiate.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 11, 2013)

Necro, would those laser cut templates be available to us outside France to buy?


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## Necromagnon (Apr 11, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Necro, would those laser cut templates be available to us outside France to buy?


I think so, but the shipping cost might increase the bill slightly... :/
I'm sure you can find laser cutting company that will do the same work in NZ or Australia. For information, a body template (with all the cavities designed and removable so you can do everything with the same template) cost 15. I don't the current rate for conversion, but it might give you an idea (and also inform you how stewmac and many other f*** everyone up...  ).


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## Gregori (Apr 11, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> I'm looking for a workshop (a garage unused by neighbours or something), but it's so expensive around here in France...
> About CNC, I personnaly see no use for it. Having templates made by laser cutting (we work with our forum with a french guy doing it, and doing some retail for us) is largely sufficient, unless you want to have a complete line of guitar with all the same body shape. Programming the cutting path is very long, and CNC expensive, so you have to build a lot to compentiate.



I do want to go into production for something at some point. I definitely don't need a CNC for personal use, and the idea of mass producing guitars is a turn-off, but there are other things that I wouldn't mind making and selling for some extra income. 

But I'll be honest, I mostly want a CNC to mess around with  I love stuff like that.

Oh and there's a place here that laser cuts plastic templates. They are called plasticare, but I don't know if they ship oeverseas.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 11, 2013)

Gregori said:


> But I'll be honest, I mostly want a CNC to mess around with  I love stuff like that.


So we're in the same boat... 

CNC is quite usefull for many stuff, when you have the compyting/programming skills to prepare the program fast. other way, it could be really long to do it, and it's much less fun to mess out with a computer than with a piece of wood (but a bit safer, I think...  ).

If you like CNC and wood, don't go on this site: Woodworking for engineers
You'll never sleep again...


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## AwDeOh (Apr 11, 2013)

^ to hell with building guitars...

Marble shooting crossbow


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## Gregori (Apr 11, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> So we're in the same boat...
> 
> CNC is quite usefull for many stuff, when you have the compyting/programming skills to prepare the program fast. other way, it could be really long to do it, and it's much less fun to mess out with a computer than with a piece of wood (but a bit safer, I think...  ).
> 
> ...



That site is pretty awesome.

I'm definitely going to be getting more and more into CNC programming and designing in Rhino. I actually enjoy that kind of stuff


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## Necromagnon (Apr 12, 2013)

Gregori said:


> That site is pretty awesome.


This guy is pretty crazy... He builds everything, in wood, and it's incredible...


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## Suitable (Apr 12, 2013)

Ummmmmm.... Axe updates please? She a go'er or what???


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## Gregori (Apr 16, 2013)




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## AwDeOh (Apr 16, 2013)

Ohh that's nice dude.

That's CNC right? How wide are the fret slots, or how thick was the bit that cut them?


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## Gregori (Apr 16, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Ohh that's nice dude.
> 
> That's CNC right? How wide are the fret slots, or how thick was the bit that cut them?



Thanks! I did all of it on the CNC. The fret slots were cut with a .0235" bit(0.5969mm) to 3mm deep. Here is the exact bit I used: UltraBIT Fret Cutters


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## Suitable (Apr 16, 2013)

Is mastubation over that fretboard a crime?


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## Gregori (Apr 16, 2013)

Suitable said:


> Is mastubation over that fretboard a crime?



I don't think any jury would convict you 


But I think putting jumbo frets on it might be a crime. I'm starting to think I might need to order some skinny/tall frets...


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## AwDeOh (Apr 16, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Thanks! I did all of it on the CNC. The fret slots were cut with a .0235" bit(0.5969mm) to 3mm deep. Here is the exact bit I used: UltraBIT Fret Cutters



Thanks for that dude, I've been looking far and wide for a fret slot cutting bit. Have you been using it long enough to say how long it lasts, perhaps how many fret slots you could cut with each bit?

EDIT: Just saw "Anticipated Life - 3,000 linear inches (cross-grain ebony, CNC milling)".


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## Gregori (Apr 16, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Thanks for that dude, I've been looking far and wide for a fret slot cutting bit. Have you been using it long enough to say how long it lasts, perhaps how many fret slots you could cut with each bit?



I've only used it this one time. It's supposed to go 3000 inches in cross-grain ebony, but I don't know if that's accurate. Perhaps at 40,000 rpms with a really high quality CNC that's accurate. I managed to get through it without breaking a bit, which is awesome considering the CNC I'm using is ancient and goes 21,000 rpms max.

I spoke with the guy at that company before attempting it, and he gave me some good advice: 

Only go half the diameter of the bit each pass(so .0115" per pass)

Start at a 35 inches per minute feed rate. He said bits starts to break at 130ipm when he tested them, but the faster you go, the more likely you are to break a bit, so go slow if you can spare the extra time.

He also said to check out their shell cutting bits for cutting fret slots because they will last longer, but I didn't see one in my size. Perhaps if you can find some fretwire that requires a wider slot you could use that bit instead. Or just use it anyway, if you think it will work just fine.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm actually looking at it for a Dremel fret slotting jig I want to build, from memory they do 30K rpm or more. Again, thanks for the linky.. that's another little thing off my list of things to find  I looked for hours a while back, even started getting into dentistry burrs, and found nothing.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 16, 2013)

Dat fretboard is pure sex...


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## aaron_rose (Apr 16, 2013)

Walterson said:


> Please let the end of the fretboard end follow the nut.... to me it looks it looks so much more elegant when it is done that way!
> 
> 
> just to make clear what I'm talking about:
> ...



Actually that isn't the only fix for that geometry "situation", u can also scallop the top of the headstock for relief if it's needed, or u can shape the wood to have the clearance it needs. Great idea tho man, I love it.


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## Gregori (Apr 21, 2013)

Got the fretboard glued on, and convinced someone to take some good pics for me. You can finally see the carved top that's been done for a month. 








On the back we have the control cavity and a 45° bevel around the edge.





My guitar next to it's sister  That's someone else's guitar, but that fretboard looks familiar, doesn't it? I sold him an extra piece I had(which now I wish I didn't, it's too damn beautiful).


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## Gregori (Apr 21, 2013)

GoodOlTahj said:


> _advert_


Enjoy your ban


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## silent_k (Apr 21, 2013)

Gregori said:


>



Looks awesome -- did you do the top bevels by hand? I've seen at least one person use big-ass panel raising bits for deep bevels like that. Either way it looks fantastic!


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 21, 2013)

Motherf...! Those are some otherworldly fretboards... My condolences for the loss of the sister board.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 21, 2013)

Loving everything about this man. Bodyshape rules, and the carving finished up bloody great!


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## Suitable (Apr 21, 2013)

Coming along very nicely! Where did you get that fretboard timber and what is it again? Sorry... Its just looks too damn good!!!


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## Gregori (Apr 21, 2013)

silent_k said:


> Looks awesome -- did you do the top bevels by hand? I've seen at least one person use big-ass panel raising bits for deep bevels like that. Either way it looks fantastic!


I did them by hand with a rasp, file, and sanding block, but I did hit it with a small 45 bit first to get that crisp edge on the bottom of the carve. 



Suitable said:


> Coming along very nicely! Where did you get that fretboard timber and what is it again? Sorry... Its just looks too damn good!!!



I bought the wood from a local seller. The fretboard is Macassar ebony, and the body/neck is wenge, maple, and Spanish Cedar.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 22, 2013)

I won't say anything, becuse everything has been said before, and because I'm to busy trying to find how I will be able to work now that I'm blind...


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## skisgaar (Apr 23, 2013)

Sweet mother of merciful FUCK! That....that is just...the tits.


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## dcoughlin1 (Apr 23, 2013)

Jesus if I tried building something like this it would end up like this


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## Levi79 (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow looks incredible dude.


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## 4Eyes (Apr 24, 2013)

amazing skills, amazing work...


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## Gregori (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks guys, I'm pretty stoked to see it coming out so well. I was pretty worried going into it. 

Question for the experienced luthiers here: Is there any downside to fretting before I carve the neck? I haven't tried to fret it yet, but I fear that ebony cut on a CNC will require some serious pounding, or even a fret press(which I don't have  ). Seems like it would be good to have all that support if I need it.


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## Walterson (Apr 25, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Question for the experienced luthiers here: Is there any downside to fretting before I carve the neck? I haven't tried to fret it yet, but I fear that ebony cut on a CNC will require some serious pounding, or even a fret press(which I don't have  ). Seems like it would be good to have all that support if I need it.



I'm not shure if I'm qualified to answer... anyways: thats how I do ist all the time. Frets are much easier to press/hammer in when the back of the neck is still flat...

Do you own a drill press? Get one of those with the right radius bit and you are done:

STEWMAC.COM : Fret Press Caul

Pressing frets is much more consistent than hammering them in, there is almost now need to level frets since I use a press.....


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## penguin_316 (Apr 25, 2013)

What would you use to press in something like a 20" radius? I see the stewmac kit only goes up to 16".


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## Necromagnon (Apr 25, 2013)

Walterson said:


> I'm not shure if I'm qualified to answer... anyways: thats how I do ist all the time. Frets are much easier to press/hammer in when the back of the neck is still flat...


This.
I'm not qualified also as I made only 3 fretting, but I st did it after carving the neck, and it was a serious pain to keep the neck well placed, flat and all. After this 1st attempt, the 2 others were done before carving, and it's much easier.

About drill press, you don't need it (I hope the link works :/ ):
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=407547499337886

A french fellow luthier (he's a pro). This technique is very powerfull, and you really don't need a drill press when you handle this technique. It takes a few tries, but that work definitely great, and on every radius possible.

PS: here's his fb profile, with the other videos from the building process of this tele without electricity, for those who are interested:
www.facebook.com/FranckCherubinLuthier


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## AwDeOh (Apr 25, 2013)

When he bends the fret by hand, is he putting the bend through the entire fret, or just the ends?


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## Necromagnon (Apr 25, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> When he bends the fret by hand, is he putting the bend through the entire fret, or just the ends?


I wouldn't attest it for sure, but I think it the entire fret, to fit the radius, and a slightly bit more at the end so that it stays done correctly.

PS: I looked at the video again, and the frets are bought in rolls, so they're already bent. He just bend a bit more the end to stuck completely on the fb.

Also, on the video, you see why it's better to fret before carving the neck.


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## silent_k (Apr 25, 2013)

I've switched to fretting while the back of the neck is still square, even for bolt-ons. It's much easier to get good, even pressure on the frets that way.



penguin_316 said:


> What would you use to press in something like a 20" radius? I see the stewmac kit only goes up to 16".



Stew Mac offers a 20" insert for their fret press: STEWMAC.COM : Fret Press Inserts. They also have one that is totally flat.

I bit the bullet about a year ago and bought their fret press, and I will never hammer in frets again if I can avoid it. It's great, and in my experience results in a lot less time spent leveling and re-rounding -- everything just comes out more even. If you're going to be doing more fretting in the future it might be worth the investment.

That said, there are a couple of caveats: it can be tricky to use for set neck and neck through instruments because of the clearance from the base to the highest point that the caul can reach, and because the shape of the press may restrict your ability to press in the upper frets depending on your body design. I managed OK on my neck through build but it took a little time to rig up an arrangement of risers for the body to get everything perfectly level with the base of the press, and for the top five frets I had to hammer them in. Also, read the reviews on the Stew Mac site -- many people have been disappointed with the quality, particularly the paint job, of the press. Before I got mine I looked through the reviews and found one (written on 4-10-2011) that detailed the buyer's process of taking it apart and cleaning it thoroughly before using it, so I had a bottle of degreaser and a tube of lithium grease ready to go before it even showed up. Sure enough, mine arrived dirty as hell, outside and in the gearing for the lever -- grease everywhere, metal shavings in the gears, the works. After a couple of hours of serious cleaning, however, it was good to go, and it's been great since (I think I've used it on five necks since then).


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## Daf57 (Apr 25, 2013)

Wow - I love that fretboard! That's beautiful! Great job!


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## Necromagnon (Apr 25, 2013)

silent_k said:


> it can be tricky to use for set neck and neck through instruments because of the clearance from the base to the highest point that the caul can reach, and because the shape of the press may restrict your ability to press in the upper frets depending on your body design.


And what about fretting before gluing the neck to the body (set) or the wings (nt)? 

I've done so (without press btw) and it's the best order of operations. Because even with hammer, it's always tricky to fret when you have the body attached to the neck.


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## silent_k (Apr 25, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> And what about fretting before gluing the neck to the body (set) or the wings (nt)?



Indeed, that's a good strategy -- I was thinking that in Gregori's case since the wings are already attached to the neck through core, if he wanted to explore using a press he'd have to contend with those limitations (in addition to the question of whether to carve or fret the neck first). It can be done, though, at least to a point.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 26, 2013)

silent_k said:


> I was thinking that in Gregori's case since the wings are already attached to the neck through core


Oh! Yes, fair point, you're totally right. I forgot the context here. Sorry.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 26, 2013)

What do you guys think of this method?

Fretting

The only reservation I had about this was when it came to refretting, but apparently epoxy works well if you're heating the fret before extracting it.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 26, 2013)

The method seems classic, except for what you highlight, this epoxy thing... And I really don't get why this guy does so?
Normally, if you slot the correct width according to your frets, there's strictly no need of glue. So, it is, imo, a way to correct some mistakes, no more than this. And I quite sure that you won't remove epoxy so easily. I'm not sure epoxy melt down when heated.

Anyway, gluing the frets should be the very last option you use, when all of the others available have failed.

PS: whooo!
"The same number of strokes are used on each fret to ensure they stay at the same height."
Wtf? It means he just relies on the numbers of passes to assert that the frets are all the same heigth? No planning at all?? You have to be seriously heavily skilled to say that...


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## AwDeOh (Apr 26, 2013)

^ That's during polishing, after he's leveled and crowned the frets.

I must be a fretting geek, I like all the difference methods. What I like about the process he does with the epoxy is the clamping. I may be wrong, but it seems as though this method might give more even frets, meaning less leveling involved.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 26, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> ^ That's during polishing, after he's leveled and crowned the frets.


Oh, you're right. My bad. 



AwDeOh said:


> I may be wrong, but it seems as though this method might give more even frets, meaning less leveling involved.


I don't see why, imo. If you hammer the fret correctly, clamping or hammering give the same result. And also, I would personnaly be a bit more scared with this clamping method because if the pressure is not well distributed along the fretboard, some frets might not sit well in their slots, and you're not able to crrect that because of the martyr blinding all the process.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 26, 2013)

That's a good point, I guess the crux is in making sure that caul works perfectly. Or having a bazillion G-clamps


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## Gregori (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for all the info! 

I think I will be hammering them in. I don't feel like ordering the fret press part from stewmac and then trying to balance my whole guitar on a drill press. Plus I think I've gotten pretty decent at hammering frets in. I'll definitely be doing it before carving the neck now. 

Right now I'm realizing that I should have put my side dots in before gluing on the freboard. Now I have to find down a really long 2mm or 3/32 drill bit.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 26, 2013)

Gregori said:


> Right now I'm realizing that I should have put my side dots in before gluing on the freboard. Now I have to find down a really long 2mm or 3/32 drill bit.



Not sure I follow here, how come you need a really long bit?


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## Gregori (Apr 27, 2013)

Because the body is in the way now. Unless I drill the holes at an angle(which I did consider). 

A question for anyone here: Do you feel the common side dot layout is necessary? I've considered others, like just having dots are the 12th and 24th frets, or the 5th, 12th, 19th, and 24th frets. I'd hate to do something that makes the guitar unplayable, but I've always thought there were too many fret markers, and they tend to act as crutch and possibly keep me stuck in familiar patterns. But they do make some things easier, like jumping from one half of the neck to the other at fast speeds.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 27, 2013)

With the drilling, are you able to make a bit guide (same sized hole drilled through 1" hardwood) so that you can use a power drill instead of the press?

As for the markers, I've never played a fanned fret so I can't really say with regard to that. But I definitely agree on them being a crutch. Perhaps just a dot at the 12th?

I may have missed you saying so, are you doing any fretboard inlay?


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## Gregori (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm only planning to do side dots. I just need a bit that's long enough to reach the fretboard(parallel to the body).


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## Necromagnon (Apr 27, 2013)

About side dots, it's all up to you. If you can get rid of those, go on, nobody will be able to tell you about that, I guess. 
On my bass, I've the standard markers, and I've to say it was pretty usefull (because I was beginning bass and it was my 1st multiscale instrument), but now, I tend to use it less and less. Or at least, it's totally unconscious.

To drill the side dots, after carving the neck: good luck. The side of the fretboard should be not flat anymire, so the bit will slip in any direction all the time... :/


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## AwDeOh (Apr 27, 2013)

^ Not if you pre-punch it (like metalworkers do) or use a brad point drill bit.

But hey, if you screw it up, drill right the way up through the fretboard, sand it, call it a "Patented Fretboard Relief Hole" or some-such bullshit, and add an extra $200 to the sale price


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## Necromagnon (Apr 27, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> ^ Not if you pre-punch it (like metalworkers do) or use a brad point drill bit.


Even with this, I couldn't drill straight, because the drill bit is really soft (very small diameter) and because the surface is not flat and perpendicular to the hole axis... :/



AwDeOh said:


> But hey, if you screw it up, drill right the way up through the fretboard, sand it, call it a "Patented Fretboard Relief Hole" or some-such bullshit, and add an extra $200 to the sale price


Only 200$? Patented should be more than 500$.


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## Gregori (Apr 27, 2013)

Well, I haven't carved the neck yet. But I use a piece of angle aluminium with holes in it for the side dots, so that's acts as a guide and keeps all the holes lined up with each other. 

I like that patent idea though. I'm gonna have to remember that for any mistakes I make


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## AwDeOh (Apr 30, 2013)

Spotted this over at LuthierTalk, thought it might help Gregori:

Luthier Forums - View Single Post - My 57 Black Beauty replica build


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## Suitable (May 1, 2013)

Try find a long straight bit of wire the same dia as 2mm (or slightly larger and file it down to size whilst its in the drill) then cut it with nips so it has a sharp pointy flat end, drill a bit guide as AwDeOh said and just work your way slowly with it on the hard to access parts of the fret board. Its not perfect but if you take you time and use the guide it will take enough material out for the inlay on the higher frets cleanly. It will take longer than using a propper drill bit but it will still work all the same.


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## skeels (May 1, 2013)

^^That jig is ingenious.


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