# Seymour Duncan Blackouts VS Fishman Fluence Modern [IR War]



## pablometal (Aug 5, 2019)

Since a found a wav file of the blackouts, i tried recording the same riff to compare them.. here are the results.

The video description says:
The Blackouts wav audio belongs to James Z Productions. He used his Schecter to record the first riff and i just recorded the same riff to compare both pickups. He only had 1 side so i just put both guitars at the center.. He used an RME Babyface Pro (no jdi-isa, just DI signal), i used a Focusrite 2i2 2gen (Di signal) My guitar: ibanez rgdim6fm

​
Fishman pickups have a real lo-fi sound which i like, here's how the spectrum looks:


Blackouts:







Fishman:






Of course i don't own the best interface on the market and that could lead to less mid to high frequencies..but i must say most of the IR's sounds better with the fishman pickups.​


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Aug 5, 2019)

I honestly much preferred how the Blackouts sounded. They had a tighter low end and the upper mids kept the single notes from getting muddy.

With that said though, this pickup comparison was stupid and pointless. You should've done the comparison of both pickups in the same guitar.


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## pablometal (Aug 5, 2019)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> I honestly much preferred how the Blackouts sounded. They had a tighter low end and the upper mids kept the single notes from getting muddy.
> 
> With that said though, this pickup comparison was stupid and pointless. You should've done the comparison of both pickups in the same guitar.


ok no problem but why start insulting? first of all, learn to rean, 2nd, did it for fun and not for you. So save your words for your personal life


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## littlebadboy (Aug 5, 2019)

Yep, kinda liked the Blackouts better too.


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## pablometal (Aug 5, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> Yep, kinda liked the Blackouts better too.


they have a really tight low end and overall are well balanced. Fishman fluence are kind of bad for acoustic stuff.. they sound really muddy. But i must say i like both.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Aug 5, 2019)

pablometal said:


> ok no problem but why start insulting? first of all, learn to rean, 2nd, did it for fun and not for you. So save your words for your personal life


"Learn to rean"

Learn to type.

I also wasn't trying to insult you. Trying to make a direct comparison of two different pickups in two different guitars does in fact render it a completely pointless exercise. Nothing wrong with having fun while doing it but don't try to frame your video as being in any way an informative or fair comparison when it clearly isn't.

The fact that you take offence to that valid criticism speaks more about the fragility of your personal life than anyone else's.


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## JustinRhoads1980 (Aug 5, 2019)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> I also wasn't trying to insult you. Trying to make a direct comparison of two different pickups in two different guitars does in fact render it a completely pointless exercise. Nothing wrong with having fun while doing it but don't try to frame your video as being in any way an informative or fair comparison when it clearly isn't.



Yup it is super constructive. If I compare a pickup in two different guitars, even of the same make and model it will sound different. @pablometal he is trying to give you constructive criticism to you and to those reading the forum who might have an automatic bias towards a pickup now because a big variable in the test caused a slanted result. Take the advice and don't shit on others man.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> The fact that you take offence to that valid criticism speaks more about the fragility of your personal life than anyone else's.


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## Masoo2 (Aug 6, 2019)

geez no wonder people hate gearheads and metalheads chill op did nothing wrong he didn't "shit on others" lmao

in this case, blackouts 100%

that fishman clip actually really disappointed me, maybe something like the classics would deliver that missing high end

i've noticed that in quite a few clips of the moderns, actually

they have that nice compression i want but lack the high end of the classics and a few others


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## jarledge (Aug 6, 2019)

i like the fishmans . I had blackouts in my 8 string and hated that i couldn't get the mids to relax and not be so in your face. I like that the fishmans seem to have similar clarity but with less of the in your face mids that I didn't get along with. The blackouts do metal great but for me not much else.


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## pablometal (Aug 6, 2019)

Maybe not a fair comparison, i just used a shitty interface with 1 month old strings. I remember using a cheap DI box and the high's were noticeable boosted. It all started because i was looking for reviews about the babyface, maybe if i buy one i will update this.

About the losers:


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## pablometal (Aug 6, 2019)

jarledge said:


> i like the fishmans . I had blackouts in my 8 string and hated that i couldn't get the mids to relax and not be so in your face. I like that the fishmans seem to have similar clarity but with less of the in your face mids that I didn't get along with. The blackouts do metal great but for me not much else.


The Blackouts seems to be really loud at the 1-2k area, i think you can hear it while the fishman have that area really scooped which makes them sound good. I also tamed some frequencies in the 3-5k area, just small surgical EQing. 

Btw it was pretty easy to make the fishman sound good(or better), just boost the treble from 4 to 7 in the amp settings and that solved the "problem", they sounded much better than the blackouts, in general they sound beter with any IR but still the blackouts are really clean and perfect for acoustic stuff.


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## JustinRhoads1980 (Aug 6, 2019)

pablometal said:


> About the losers:



Yeah because having a valid criticism makes us "losers" says a lot about you brah


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## pablometal (Aug 6, 2019)

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yeah because having a valid criticism makes us "losers" says a lot about you brah


Read the post Justin.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2019)

the only good way to do a comparison like this is to make DIs of both pickups in the same guitar, playing the same riff, with the same strings, pick etc AND then comparing their frequency response.
This isn't a very useful comparison tbh.


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## littlebadboy (Aug 6, 2019)

Any love for the SD Custom 5? I like it over the Blackouts or the Fluence.


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## efiltsohg (Aug 6, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> Any love for the SD Custom 5? I like it over the Blackouts or the Fluence.


I'd take almost any passive Duncan over either one yeah


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## Zoobiedood (Aug 6, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> Any love for the SD Custom 5? I like it over the Blackouts or the Fluence.


The Custom 5 is remarkable, and especially shines in mid-heavy guitars.


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## Strobe (Aug 6, 2019)

The blackouts do sound really good in this video, which is odd, because the Fishmans sound way way way better in my RR24 than the blackout I had in it before did. I go back and forth on the blackouts from "it's OK" to "I hate this". I loved the Fishmans the first time I played them. YMMV - Kudos for getting these to sound good.


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Aug 6, 2019)

I dont mean to be a naysayer or disagree with anyone wheni joined and know much less about eRg things than everyone else....but I will say this: nothing, absolutely nothing, comes close to Fishman Fluence technology at the moment. So EMG and Blackouts have a lot to offer actively, its just not even a real comparison because the technology is totally different.

I think its like preamps vs digital processing....so....Fishman created a league of their own...and i think thats why they cost almost $300 a set!! EMG vs. BO is a fair fight, but fishman actives arent like “those “ actives

But I appreciate people trying to make comparisons and helping others decide....i cant put in fishman in my guitar otherwise I would! But again, i don’t know half as muchas you guys...so


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## Strobe (Aug 6, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> Any love for the SD Custom 5? I like it over the Blackouts or the Fluence.



While I prefer Fluence, it's like my #2 favorite passive.


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## zimbloth (Aug 9, 2019)

Masoo2 said:


> in this case, blackouts 100%
> 
> that fishman clip actually really disappointed me, maybe something like the classics would deliver that missing high end
> 
> ...



This, to me, is the main problem with sound clips. They are so often misleading and recorded in a way which can alter ones perceptions. The Moderns are easily among the most tight, precise, clear active pickups on the market. In my opinion, having done hundreds of real-life A/B testing, they blow away the Seymour Duncan Blackouts in terms of fidelity, noise, tight bottom end, and every metric one would find positive for a modern metal player.

Now, thats not to say Moderns will sound good in every guitar. They dont. Some guitars are just a mismatch, as can be the case with any pickup. However, I find all the people saying "yup, Blackouts are better" based on amateur clips of _two separate guitars_ saddening. I would stress to people to try them out in real life and trust your own ears, rather than amateur recordings.

I know I sound like a Fishman apologist, but I just have had such resounding success with them in so many guitars over the past 5 years, that I cant help myself. They're amazing. My shop sells Seymour Duncans too, they are good too... but to me the Fishman pickups are the best active pickups available by a mile. I just threw a Devin Townsend Fishman set in an Ibanez RGA and those are mind-blowingly good too.

No offense to the OP here, just making a general statement.


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## Adieu (Aug 9, 2019)

Fishmans here sound like neutered Blackouts

If you're into that sort of thing, I'm sure it's easily achievable via EQ


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Aug 10, 2019)

Fluence arent “putting out” output like EMG and Blackouts.
They are “active” in the respect that they have an active circuit board but the technology is completely different.
It’s almost like they have a computer chip instead of wires coiled around magnets, which is kinda what it is
I’m not the best as explaining it, as i still would love to fully understand the EQ graph of HF tilt,but comparing EMG and Blackouts are apples to apples, but EMG/BO and Fluence are like apples and pears, they are close, but one is definitely more distinct and “neutered”....
They have a BOOST available, but i doubt it’ll ever get near an AHB-1 or 81


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## pablometal (Aug 23, 2019)

I will upload a new audio file with the guitar eq'ed as i eq them for my songs.. to make some justice.


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## lewis (Aug 23, 2019)

zimbloth said:


> This, to me, is the main problem with sound clips. They are so often misleading and recorded in a way which can alter ones perceptions. The Moderns are easily among the most tight, precise, clear active pickups on the market. In my opinion, having done hundreds of real-life A/B testing, they blow away the Seymour Duncan Blackouts in terms of fidelity, noise, tight bottom end, and every metric one would find positive for a modern metal player.
> 
> Now, thats not to say Moderns will sound good in every guitar. They dont. Some guitars are just a mismatch, as can be the case with any pickup. However, I find all the people saying "yup, Blackouts are better" based on amateur clips of _two separate guitars_ saddening. I would stress to people to try them out in real life and trust your own ears, rather than amateur recordings.
> 
> ...



What people fail to grasp is that yes by the book something ticking off checklists for tone - doesnt make it the best. Or good at all for certain things.

Does the fishman do everything you said it does? Yes
Does it execute its marketing spiel? Yes
Is it the best pickup? Impossible to answer tone is subjective.

This post is ironic because your basically guilty of doing the same thing you are condemning but at the other end of the spectrum by implying the fishmans are undesputed best there has ever been - when in reality they are just as over hyped as any new guitar related piece of gear taking the scene by stom - until the next thing and these get slung on the shitheap.

These pickups for all the ticks against buzzwords they may execute in isolatation- are just as subjective as any other pickup.

Im more sick of elitists posts like this than i am people daring to not jump on bandwagons.


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## pablometal (Aug 23, 2019)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NV_vq5wp4WBN-CnN-NCWTuolLGF-WpNS/view?usp=sharing

well here is it, the first 7 seconds are just the old gtrs then recorded some riffs again (you can notice the sound difference)with new strings also added an analog alesis eq to the signal chain.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 23, 2019)

lewis said:


> What people fail to grasp is that yes by the book something ticking off checklists for tone - doesnt make it the best. Or good at all for certain things.
> 
> Does the fishman do everything you said it does? Yes
> Does it execute its marketing spiel? Yes
> ...


Zimbloth is right though, there is no comparison between blackouts and the fluences in terms of clarity and general sound. I've said this before in other threads and I'll say it again, fluence are the best active pickups on the market hands down. I've personally tried the blackouts, emgs and fluences and I think the fluences deserve all the hype. I say that as someone that has never really liked active pickups of any brand and as a devout pickup swapper/passive pickup fan. They're the only active that manages to mimic the versatility of good passive pickups imo. The blackouts are easily the worst on the market in terms of clarity imo. They had way too much gain, too much bass, slammed the front of the amp, and sounded like diarrhea in sonic form. 
There's a reason the blackouts never caught on to the extent that emgs or fluence have.


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## lewis (Aug 24, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Zimbloth is right though, there is no comparison between blackouts and the fluences in terms of clarity and general sound. I've said this before in other threads and I'll say it again, fluence are the best active pickups on the market hands down. I've personally tried the blackouts, emgs and fluences and I think the fluences deserve all the hype. I say that as someone that has never really liked active pickups of any brand and as a devout pickup swapper/passive pickup fan. They're the only active that manages to mimic the versatility of good passive pickups imo. The blackouts are easily the worst on the market in terms of clarity imo. They had way too much gain, too much bass, slammed the front of the amp, and sounded like diarrhea in sonic form.
> There's a reason the blackouts never caught on to the extent that emgs or fluence have.



You are still speaking like opinion is fact.
Ive never personally owned the Blackout. Ive heard one in person (previous band member) and one of my favourite bands After the Burial use them and manage just fine.

I have Fishman moderns for studio use and EMGs for live so im not biased at all (quick connect is handy) - but im sick and tired of pickups and peoples attitude around them tbh.

everyones tastes are different, everyones rigs are different and everyones playstyles and finger tones are different. There really cannot be one size fits all conversation about pickups given there is too many variables.

Everything has a place and its about finding what works for me and me only. I only ever comment on my thoughts on something for my style.
Im never trying to convince people to ditch their pickups infavour of "insert new trendy bandwagon pickup set here".

It almost comes off as alot of people being insecure. I.e they know they just spwnt hundreds on a Fishman set and to justify it they go hard with the praise online- almost to convince themselves more of the purchase.

I dont know its weird. 
Either way im so jaded and over the pickup quest haha.
I like my EMGs, I use my Moderns and if someone handed me a guitar with a dimebucker in the bridge (never played one) i would likely use and enjoy that too.

Think its so overdone on here


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2019)

lewis said:


> You are still speaking like opinion is fact.
> Ive never personally owned the Blackout. Ive heard one in person (previous band member) and one of my favourite bands After the Burial use them and manage just fine.
> 
> I have Fishman moderns for studio use and EMGs for live so im not biased at all (quick connect is handy) - but im sick and tired of pickups and peoples attitude around them tbh.
> ...


 I was merely stating my opinion that blackouts are the worst actives on the market. I've tried enough pickups over the years that I can offer a bit broader perspective than most people on here. I'm sure they're plenty viable for some people, but they're one of the few pickups that I can say I hated no matter how much I tweaked them. I like After the Burial's tones and I liked Mick from Slipknot's tones when he used blackouts, but I could never get a tone that I liked from them. EMGs and fluences were much easier to get tones I liked from.
Like I said in my previous post, I have no skin in the game. I've never really liked actives and the fluences still impressed me.


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## zimbloth (Aug 28, 2019)

lewis said:


> This post is ironic because your basically guilty of doing the same thing you are condemning but at the other end of the spectrum by implying the fishmans are undesputed best there has ever been - when in reality they are just as over hyped as any new guitar related piece of gear taking the scene by stom - until the next thing and these get slung on the shitheap.
> 
> Im more sick of elitists posts like this than i am people daring to not jump on bandwagons.



1) I never said they're the best. I said I think they have better clarity and dynamics than Blackouts, which I base on countless _real-world_ A/B trials, not internet hearsay or amateur clips.

2) It's not being an "elitist" to state one's honest, informed opinion. I don't pay attention what "hype" things may or may not have. The nature of my profession means I have logged hundreds of hours with all these pickups in real life applications, and have had the opportunity to do countless direct before/after trials. So when I state my opinion that Fluence Moderns are more articulate than a Duncan Blackout, its because I think its true, not because I have an agenda. I sell Seymour Duncans constantly too, it makes no difference to me. I just like to help people achieve the best tone possible.

3) I understand a large segment of metal fans have a natural tendency to resent anything that is popular or has "hype" behind it. I get it, many endorsed artists and dealers hype up garbage to make an easy buck. However, that doesn't mean _everything _that is popular isn't popular for a good reason. I think attitudes like this is more elitist than me just having a strong opinion.


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Aug 28, 2019)

IDK man, maybe its my GAS, but I have to say, Larry Fishman’s intent and goal I really think were achieved. He wanted to change/revolutionize in a sense, what hasn’t been different forever. The only thing I can think of as kind of different was Lace, but that was really design difference more than technology.

IMHO and please dont kill me for saying this, and this is why i am buying the guitar i mentioned in another thread, is because i beleive these pickups are REALLY something differnent. Like the way the Axe Fx changed amps, I think Fishman Fluence CAN be that different start for pickups, i mean it HAD to start somewhere with someone, and if someone else had some other more advanced technology than fishman, please chime in because i was blown away by the demo and actual sound

Again, there is no best pickup. That’s silly to think one size fits all, especially to us picky babies (guitarists)....There are BEST pickups per category, like EMG 81 might be the best active bridge pup, or the Lundgren M8 might be the best 8 string pickup, or the Tone zone/air norton might be the best classic Combo ever, etc....like those types of cliche’s are expected but this time i actually think the pickup game might change because of the fluence technology

Ill say this: the carpenter set is definitely for metal, maybe it sounds like the way the modern set is made for metal. But obviously these pickups are so versatile that just a change of a few parameters on your tone knob, volume, switches and selectors, you have so many tonal choices that its not JUST for one genre

IDK, I’m not defending anyone, I’m just saying, as far as the pickup game goes, Larry fishman said something to the effect, nothing changed since it was invented,(even actives , they just have a preamp), so the fluence core is REALLY something interesting...i feel like were watching the beginning of the modeler for the guitar pickup or something.


Anyway just my two cents, and dont beat me up, I’m not a veteran yet!


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 29, 2019)

lewis said:


> "insert new trendy bandwagon pickup set here".



You have to admit that the Fluence is not just some trendy bandwagon pickups. The technology is really new and mindblowing. EMG and Duncan would have wished they thought of stacking circuit boards instead of winding conventional wire. Nobody has done it before.

Fishman's approach to creating pickups has opened a looooot of cool new applications. Imagine not being limited by how much or how less you wind wire with pickups. Gone are the worries that when you overwind you lose on clarity and treble. You can have PAF quality without being limited with gain. With the stacked boards, you can exactly determine how much gain you need and how clear you want the pickups to be. 

If Fishman wanted they can create a straight up facsimile of the 81 easily.


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Aug 30, 2019)

+1, “i like the way i said it better” - Jim Morrison


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