# Extended Range Classical Guitars



## 6or7mattersnot

Hi there, I'm a classical guitar student who mainly plays on a standard classical guitar, but I do have a 7 string electric guitar that is my main electric instrument, and I was wondering how different a classical guitar with an extended range, specifically a seventh or eighth string, is from your traditional classical guitar. Is it a simple adjustment period like it is with the 7 string or 8 string electric guitar? Or is the additional range something that completely changes how you play the instrument as per left hand and/or right hand technique?


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## Winspear

Hi, 
I am no classical guitarist, but I do own a multiscale 8 string Bartolex classical and an 11 string alto by Milagro, along with many various electric guitars and basses with up to 9 strings. More of a typical acoustic / jazz approach.
I would say that yes, it's just simply adding extra strings. 
Typically, the classical extended range guitars are different to electrics in that they are not tuned in 4ths. Basses might look like CDEADGBE for example. 
In that case, even less of an adjustment I suppose as you are not playing them with your fretting hand.
I prefer to treat them like normal though and tune them in 4ths on my 8 string, which is in 8 string standard tuning.
The 11 string alto is a different beast, because it has reverse frets at the nut (google 11 string alto) to increase the scale, making it so that the 4 bass strings are very much only to be played open (as on the fretboard, the notes all line up). It's tuned GABC-DGCFADG. So really like a 7 string, with some open basses. The thing I noticed most on this guitar is the different stretch you must have in your right hand to reach the trebles and open basses at the same time. But on the 8 string, just normal adjustment like an electric to me


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## tedtan

Check with Given to Fly; he's the resident expert. If he doesn't come along soon, shoot him a PM.


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## Given To Fly

tedtan said:


> Check with Given to Fly; he's the resident expert.



 I won't lie, that felt good to read! 



6or7mattersnot said:


> Hi there, I'm a classical guitar student who mainly plays on a standard classical guitar, but I do have a 7 string electric guitar that is my main electric instrument, and I was wondering how different a classical guitar with an extended range, specifically a seventh or eighth string, is from your traditional classical guitar. Is it a simple adjustment period like it is with the 7 string or 8 string electric guitar? Or is the additional range something that completely changes how you play the instrument as per left hand and/or right hand technique?



Where are you studying guitar? What year are you in school?

Ok, I could talk for hours about this topic so to preserve everyone's sanity I'll be as straightforward as possible. Also, I am the only person I know that has ever done what I did so I have no idea if my experience is what everyone should expect. 

First, your background sounds exactly like my background: traditional classical guitar, 7 string electric guitar. This is important to know.

When I switched over to playing a 7 string classical guitar it took about 3 months to bring all my repertoire up to "performance level." My biggest challenge was retraining my R.H. thumb (P) to know "there is another bass string below the low E." I wrote it like that because that is how I thought about it. 

To answer your last question, my experience playing a 7 string classical guitar has been "the additional range completely changed how I played the instrument." The weird part is everything regarding technique is the same. The challenge is mentally accounting for the additional string. None of my peers could play my guitar and I could not play their guitars. The only person who ever managed to pick up my guitar and play something decent was David Russell and he only did it once. I mentioned this to him and he said he had to "completely ignore the 7th string, pretend it wasn't there," in order to do it. To make things weirder, I can switch between 6/7/8 string electric guitars with no problem. I've seen guitarists play 11 string alto guitars and 6 string classical guitars in the same concert with no problem. Everybody I have met, myself included, has had a problem switching between a 6 string classical guitar and a 7 string classical guitar and vice versa. I'm positive it has nothing to do with your fingers though; it has everything to do with your brain.


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## Winspear

^ Interesting post. Would you say it's different for experienced classical guitarists? Or that comments about the brain struggling in general, would apply to electric guitar as well? I suppose that would help to tell. If you are the kind of person that can juggle all kinds of electric guitars, then probably it wouldn't be any different for classical? Or is that not the case? It was like that for me, but like I said, I am not a classical guitarist - I just like nylon strings.


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## Given To Fly

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ Interesting post. Would you say it's different for experienced classical guitarists? Or that comments about the brain struggling in general, would apply to electric guitar as well? I suppose that would help to tell. If you are the kind of person that can juggle all kinds of electric guitars, then probably it wouldn't be any different for classical? Or is that not the case? It was like that for me, but like I said, I am not a classical guitarist - I just like nylon strings.



Good questions. This is my first attempt at trying to explain my thoughts on the matter so bear with me:

Classical guitarists basically spend the majority of their time playing music which was composed by someone else. In process of the learning this music your brain has to account for everything written on the page and how to transfer it onto the instrument you are playing. When the instrument changes in a significant way, you have to alter your muscle memory in an equally significant way which is a hard thing to do. However, if you change instruments, your brain recognizes the difference and treats them as two separate things. For some reason, this seems to be easier to deal with. I do not know where the brain draws the line on whether or not the "instrument changed" or the person "changed instruments" though. 

I do not think it matters whether you are playing an electric guitar or a classical guitar. I think what your brain is doing while you are playing either instrument matters a lot.

I'll be thinking about these things...


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## 6or7mattersnot

Wow, that's a pretty fantastic response. I guess to start off with I'm a second year student at my local community college, so basically a sophmore in college, working toward a composition degree for classical guitar here in California. I'm going to be transferring to one of the California State Universities, probably Northridge, but I'm looking at CSU Fullerton and CSU Long Beach as well. 

The reason for my asking about this is my teacher will every now and again tell me how I'll need to get a better guitar than the one I currently have, and ever since I had seen extended range classical guitars I've been very interested in playing one, to the point where I've seriously considered trying to get one as an upgrade to my current guitar, a Takamine C132S. Do you use your extended range classical instruments as your primary instruments or do you stick to a more traditional six-stringed classical instrument and have a few pieces in your repertoire that utilize the extended range of the instrument?

It's interesting that you say that the techniques are all the same and that it still completely changed how you play the instrument. I don't know for certain if it's anything like getting used to a seven string electric guitar, but it took me maybe a couple weeks to actually get used to the fact that I had that extra range, and maybe another couple of weeks to actually figure out how to more effectively use it beyond the generic power chord cliche. Is it really just as simple as that? Getting your mind used to the fact that you actually have that extra range and knowing when and where to use it?


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## Given To Fly

6or7mattersnot said:


> Wow, that's a pretty fantastic response. I guess to start off with I'm a second year student at my local community college, so basically a sophmore in college, working toward a composition degree for classical guitar here in California. I'm going to be transferring to one of the California State Universities, probably Northridge, but I'm looking at CSU Fullerton and CSU Long Beach as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are many great California schools. If possible, audition at USC (I realize its not part of the California University system). Brain Head is the Department Head of the guitar program and his focus is your focus: https://music.usc.edu/brian-head/ More importantly, he plays a 7 string guitar in the Los Angles Guitar Quartet, plus its a good school. With that said, if you do not get in, its not the end of the world, trust me on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason for my asking about this is my teacher will every now and again tell me how I'll need to get a better guitar than the one I currently have, and ever since I had seen extended range classical guitars I've been very interested in playing one, to the point where I've seriously considered trying to get one as an upgrade to my current guitar, a Takamine C132S. Do you use your extended range classical instruments as your primary instruments or do you stick to a more traditional six-stringed classical instrument and have a few pieces in your repertoire that utilize the extended range of the instrument?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My professor would say "Your guitar (Vicente Carrillo 1A - 6 string) sucks, you need a new one," pretty much from day one. Looking back, I'm thankful for his rudeness because when I got my new guitar I improved exponentially because I practiced more. I practiced more because I had a better playing/sounding guitar. It was an upward spiral of improvement!
> 
> I use my 7 string classical guitars for everything because I do not own any 6 string classical guitars anymore. Whether a piece utilizes the 7th string or not, I play my 7 string guitars and even if I had any 6 string classical guitars, I would still only play my 7 strings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you say that the techniques are all the same and that it still completely changed how you play the instrument. I don't know for certain if it's anything like getting used to a seven string electric guitar, but it took me maybe a couple weeks to actually get used to the fact that I had that extra range, and maybe another couple of weeks to actually figure out how to more effectively use it beyond the generic power chord cliche. Is it really just as simple as that? Getting your mind used to the fact that you actually have that extra range and knowing when and where to use it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Is it really just as simple as that? Getting your mind used to the fact that you actually have that extra range and knowing when and where to use it?"
> If that sounds simple to you, than yes, its that simple. Just keep in mind, no one could pick up my guitar and play their repertoire, and I knew some really amazing and really intelligent players. If they had wanted to switch over to a 7 string guitar, I have no doubt that they would have been able to do it though. So that is another part of the puzzle, you have to want to play a 7 string. There are plenty of benefits. I didn't switch to a 7 string classical just to make my life harder. If you tune the 7th to A, most of Bach's Lute Suites can be played without transposing the basses up an octave. The result is a very wide and open sound which makes the counterpoint much easier to follow. In other words, Bach makes more sense because the voices are spread out as Bach intended. The low A also sounds noticeably good and somewhat refreshing too.  That is just one example. I have many more that have nothing to do with Bach.
> 
> Here are my two 7 string classical guitars:
> 
> Left
> 2007 Zbigniew Gnatek
> Australia
> Lattice Braced Cedar Top
> Brazilian Rosewood Back and Sides
> Gilbert Tuners
> 7 strings
> 24 frets
> 
> Right
> 2010 Jeremy Cooper
> U.S.A
> Double Top - Cedar/Spruce
> Indian Rosewood Back and Sides
> Gilbert Tuners
> 7 Strings
> 24 Frets
> 2 Tone Ports (not visible in photo)
Click to expand...


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## Stan P

Sorry , are we talking Russian 7, Brazilian or Jazz 7 (standard + bass)?


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## Given To Fly

Not quite. The Russian 7 string is very different. 7 string guitars used in Brazilian music and Jazz are very similar. What we are talking about is music composed by J.S. Bach, Isaac Albaniz, Elliott Carter, to name a few, played on a classical guitar with 7 strings.


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## Stan P

How is it to be tuned? BTW Russian 7 has an extended classical method written for it


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## Dyingsea

In the traditional classical sense the 8/10 string guitars are mostly there to play the bass strings open. Alto style guitars have an even greater range and are sometimes tuned more like a lute/guitar hybrid especially for playing pieces by composers like Weiss. 

My 8 string I had was tuned high to low EBGDAEDA since there are so many Dm and Am pieces especially in the baroque realm where low tunings are especially utilized.


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## bostjan

Traditional Russian tuning is DGBDGBD (an open D chord), so it's the same 2 octave range of open strings as a standard western six string tuning.

As far as switching from classical 6 string to a western classical 7 string, I agree that it's more of an adjustment than switching electrics. Keep in mind that classical techniques are far more rigid. In some ways this makes switching easier in the long run, but it takes more adjustment early on



Dyingsea said:


> In the traditional classical sense the 8/10 string guitars are mostly there to play the bass strings open. Alto style guitars have an even greater range and are sometimes tuned more like a lute/guitar hybrid especially for playing pieces by composers like Weiss.
> 
> My 8 string I had was tuned high to low EBGDAEDA since there are so many Dm and Am pieces especially in the baroque realm where low tunings are especially utilized.



Interesting tuning. Some players took a different approach to ERCG in the 70s and 80s, by adding a thinner string for a high A4. This allowed guitar and lute tunings to overlap (Lute being typically ADGBEA). In the 90s, the resurgence of 7 strings in rock led to ERCGs tuned with a low A1: AEADGBE. It'd follow to tune an 8 string ERCG AEADGBEA, if not for mechanical limitations. Your tuning is like the 90s tuning but with an intermediate D, if I am correctly assuming the D is a whole step below the E.


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## Given To Fly

Dyingsea said:


> In the traditional classical sense the 8/10 string guitars are mostly there to play the bass strings open. Alto style guitars have an even greater range and are sometimes tuned more like a lute/guitar hybrid especially for playing pieces by composers like Weiss.
> 
> My 8 string I had was tuned high to low EBGDAEDA since there are so many Dm and Am pieces especially in the baroque realm where low tunings are especially utilized.



Yes. You will find more 8 string classical guitars than 7 string classical guitars for the reason you mentioned: tuning flexibility for music of the Baroque.


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## Stan P

I did not know these were very common!


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## Given To Fly

Stan P said:


> I did not know these were very common!



They aren't very common. For every 100 concert classical guitars there might be six 8 strings and one 7 string, and I'm exaggerating the 7/8 string guitar numbers. 

The 10 string classical guitar is probably the most common because there is modern repertoire written for it and Narciso Yepes, a relatively famous classical guitarist, played one.


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## Stan P

Yes! I did listen to his recordings .


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## Given To Fly

Oh Good! The piece that is most performed/studied for 10 string guitar is _Si le jour paraît..._ - Maurice Ohana.


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## Given To Fly

With in the field of music my area of interest/expertise/lifelong learning is contemporary music. This website might be the greatest resource on the planet for that particular area:
Sheer Pluck - Database of Contemporary Guitar Music
Its kept up to date and I have been rather remiss for not sharing it with you. If ever need help finding a score, I can help. It may be in Japanese, but the notes are all the same.


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## vansinn

Very interesting thread.
I started off with classical guitar, though didn't complete studies due to the always ignited rocket in the pocket 

As such, I play the classical guitar much because I love the tone and feel of it.
I do not have a 7/8 string classical, but last year came across an 11 stringer made here in DK, and simply couldn't work out how to even play the ordinary top 6 strings - just like Fly referred.

Now, first time I tried a seven string electric, I of course banged into that damned annoying extra B string 
Short time after, behold, the shop had taken home two 8-stringers, By now, it weasn't much of a deal for me.
Back home, I now started to reach for the non-existent 7th string on my six'ers.

A Bit later, having bought my Riot 8, I found myself unable to make any good use of the 8-stringer, no matter how I tuned it or for which music.
All those fourth steps, and then this annoying illogical M3 step in-between.
Didn't matter where I placed the M3 step: 3rd to 2nd or 4th to 3rd.
However, it all changed when retuning it to TrueFourth.

I can now switch between a sixer in standard, in drop-D, an 8-stringer in TrueFourth, and the classical with no problems. (classical guitar in drop-D is fun too)
So, my conceptual idea is that it's more a matter of which kind of instrument I will need for playing which type of music, than being about how many strings it might have.

I think this relates nicely to Given to Fly's comments; that is, it's mostly a matter of brain waves.

As fun: Would you play ska reggae on Neil Peart's kit? Play ragtime on a Bösendörfer flügel?


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## bostjan

vansinn said:


> Play ragtime on a Bösendörfer flügel?



I'd actually love to hear that.


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## Stan P

I love the sound of drop D on classical! It really changes the tone of the instrument to my ears. Love this thread!


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## vansinn

Stan P said:


> I love the sound of drop D on classical! It really changes the tone of the instrument to my ears. Love this thread!



At some point I'll record some Southern Comfort like stuff, complete with simulated slide over four strings in drop-D on a classic wearing nylons.

(can't record acoustics ATM; rec rig dismembered, bridge cracked off my classic while vacuum cleaning. Yes, sounds unrelated, and did give me a big shock  Guitar now needs to sniff glue, and life is weird at times..)


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## Stan P

Slide on a classical? Sounds very interesting!


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## Dayn

In my own experience, I haven't found it any different to electric, besides slightly wider string spacing.

I mainly play an 8-string electric. I also have an 8-string classical. When I went from 6-string to 8-string electric, I had a good few months of adjusting to it. Now I can play any-stringed instruments, and the classical is no exception.

However I went into classical without having initially learned on a 6-string: my 8 is the only classical I've had. My skills simply transferred from my electric.

That does depend on what you want to play and what tuning you want to use though. My classical came with a low D and low B string as the 7th and 8th. I instead tuned them to a low B and low E (bass E) to match my electric. It works with the music I want to play, and I view all 8 strings as a 'whole'. Whereas when I had the low D and B, they were mostly used as open notes; I viewed it more as a 6-string, with two lower open notes to play when needed.

But that wasn't for me, it doesn't really match my playing. But it does have a purpose, and I found that it changed how I approached the instrument from a musical standpoint.

But approaching it from a physical playing standpoint? No difference for me. Having already adjusted to 8-strings, it doesn't matter to me how many strings an instrument has: I treat each string individually. A ukelele is a bass is a guitar. My technique has never changed. (It may help that I've always used a classical grip.)

There are only two things I'd be concerned for you about: being able to apply the extra strings in your studies, and what others think. The first is easy enough, but there are truly some purist dingbats out there who can't fathom the possibility of another string. I avoid them, but you may not be able to if one of them turns out to be a fellow student or, god forbid, a teacher.


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## tedtan

Dayn said:


> When I went from 6-string to 8-string electric, I had a good few months of adjusting to it. Now I can play any-stringed instruments



Just to be a smart @ss, what about these:  

Piano:









Oud:







Hammered Dulcimer:







Tar:







Harp:







Contrabass:







Koto:







Kora:






Arched Harp:







Sitar:


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## Dayn

tedtan said:


> Just to be a smart @ss, what about these:


To be an equal smartarse, yep. I'd need time to adjust, but can easily figure out how to make music on them. Strings are easy.

Don't ask me about wind instruments though. I'm sure that's just witchcraft.


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## LordCashew

Hey all! I'm a bit late to the party, but since I've got a fair amount of experience in this arena I figured I'd weigh in too.

I've been studying classical guitar at CSUS School of Music for almost two years now. I came in as a transfer student after completing an AA in guitar at community college. Back then I played six string, but I switched to seven between schools.

When I made the switch I was in the process of memorizing prepared repertoire for my audition and I didn't have much trouble adjusting to the extra string at that point. I actually learned the prelude from one of the lute suites (BWV 998) with a low A just like Given To Fly was talking about. The audition went well and professor Savino enjoyed the low notes.

It wasn't until I started my studies in the program that I had any difficulty with the seventh string. I had always done very well playing from memory in the past, but became to busy to memorize my repertoire thoroughly anymore. I found that I had been using my eyes as a crutch and that the seventh string did indeed cause me to stumble while reading, mainly my right thumb like Given to Fly mentioned. It took me close to a year to iron that out...

I haven't faced too much snobbery about my seven-string. There is actually a surprising number of seven-string guitarists in Northern California. One of our community college guitar teachers uses one, and so does one of the grad students here. Our professor is actually having one made, but he prefers to tune the low string to D. I've been working on the first cello suite with him in that tuning, actually. I tried to arrange it for low A originally but he felt the D was more idiomatic.


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## Given To Fly

LordIronSpatula said:


> Hey all! I'm a bit late to the party, but since I've got a fair amount of experience in this arena I figured I'd weigh in too.
> 
> I've been studying classical guitar at CSUS School of Music for almost two years now. I came in as a transfer student after completing an AA in guitar at community college. Back then I played six string, but I switched to seven between schools.
> 
> When I made the switch I was in the process of memorizing prepared repertoire for my audition and I didn't have much trouble adjusting to the extra string at that point. I actually learned the prelude from one of the lute suites (BWV 998) with a low A just like Given To Fly was talking about. The audition went well and professor Savino enjoyed the low notes.
> 
> It wasn't until I started my studies in the program that I had any difficulty with the seventh string. I had always done very well playing from memory in the past, but became to busy to memorize my repertoire thoroughly anymore. I found that I had been using my eyes as a crutch and that the seventh string did indeed cause me to stumble while reading, mainly my right thumb like Given to Fly mentioned. It took me close to a year to iron that out...
> 
> I haven't faced too much snobbery about my seven-string. There is actually a surprising number of seven-string guitarists in Northern California. One of our community college guitar teachers uses one, and so does one of the grad students here. Our professor is actually having one made, but he prefers to tune the low string to D. I've been working on the first cello suite with him in that tuning, actually. I tried to arrange it for low A originally but he felt the D was more idiomatic.



Thank you for sharing! Honestly, I have not faced snobbery but I certainly did not ask for anyones advice about whether or not buying a 7 string concert classical guitar was a good idea. I already knew everybody would say No. That was a wise decision on my part. Ironically, everyone enjoys the low notes but very few people will buy instruments that actually have them.  

Thank you for mentioning your "right hand thumb." I really think that is where people will struggle the most when making the switch. Maybe I should move to Northern California if that is where the 7 string classical guitarists are congregating.


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## InfinityCollision

I'll echo the above sentiments of needing a brief adjustment period before I was back to performance level. The human brain is very good at building up little tricks, cheats, and references to simplify complicated tasks, but sometimes those hacks get in the way of adaptation. Every so often I'd find myself playing one string off, particularly in more intricate arrangements. As with the above posts, my struggles were primarily in the right hand. I had to "relearn" that space and adjust my subconscious references to the extra strings, as it were.


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## cesar

Given To Fly said:


> Thank you for sharing! Honestly, I have not faced snobbery but I certainly did not ask for anyones advice about whether or not buying a 7 string concert classical guitar was a good idea. I already knew everybody would say No. That was a wise decision on my part. Ironically, everyone enjoys the low notes but very few people will buy instruments that actually have them.
> 
> Thank you for mentioning your "right hand thumb." I really think that is where people will struggle the most when making the switch. Maybe I should move to Northern California if that is where the 7 string classical guitarists are congregating.



My friend ,seems like you are the one who can help me.

I have a 7 string nylon guitar and i never found a really good book to learn classical music on it.Since i am brazillian , most of the material i can find is abour Samba, which don't get my attention.

You have any material you can recommend ?

I would classify my playing level as intermediate /advanced, as i play guitar and cello, i can read with ease sheets and have familiarity with the fretboard


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## Given To Fly

cesar said:


> My friend ,seems like you are the one who can help me.
> 
> I have a 7 string nylon guitar and i never found a really good book to learn classical music on it.Since i am brazillian , most of the material i can find is about Samba, which don't get my attention.
> 
> You have any material you can recommend ?
> 
> I would classify my playing level as intermediate /advanced, as i play guitar and cello, i can read with ease sheets and have familiarity with the fretboard



There is no "7 string classical guitar book" that I am aware of. I gradually incorporated the 7th string into the music I was learning where ever it was useful. In your case, you might want to look at Bach's Cello Suite's. You can play them on a 7 string guitar straight from the cello score. There is also quite a bit of lute repertoire that can be played on a 7 string guitar which eliminates the need to transpose the bass notes up an octave. I have a great version of _The Frog Galliard_ by John Dowland (1563 - 1626) which uses the open B string for the low B bass note. 

Also, even if Samba music does not catch your attention, it is a written source of information concerning the 7 string guitar and could be useful at some point.


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## LordCashew

cesar said:


> I have a 7 string nylon guitar and i never found a really good book to learn classical music on it. Since i am brazillian , most of the material i can find is about Samba, which don't get my attention.
> 
> You have any material you can recommend ?



Hey! Late to the party as always, but hopefully you'll come back.

I actually have the Frank Koonce edition of the complete Bach lute works. In his scores, he indicates where he's transposed bass notes up an octave to fit in the guitar range. If you have a seven string with a low A, you can put most of them back in the lute range. Generally, you can keep the rest of Koonce's fingerings intact, just moving a note over from the regular A to the low A here and there. There are also images of the Bach autographs in the back of the book if you want to read from them, but some are in flats... 

Other than that, I have mostly done what our resident expert Given to Fly has, just moving things down an octave when it makes for a good effect or enhances the integrity of a line.

There is actually some 19th century 7-string repertoire out there, though I'm not super familiar with it. Some works by Napoleon Coste (a 7-string player) include optional bass notes below the range of normal guitar. I've also heard rumblings of discoveries of manuscripts of 7-string guitar music in Mexico and Russia - I believe in both cases it's associated with the travels of European composers, not traditional music from those countries. I don't think any of it has been compiled or published yet, but keep your eyes open.


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## Given To Fly

LordIronSpatula said:


> Hey! Late to the party as always, but hopefully you'll come back.
> 
> I actually have the Frank Koonce edition of the complete Bach lute works. In his scores, he indicates where he's transposed bass notes up an octave to fit in the guitar range. If you have a seven string with a low A, you can put most of them back in the lute range. Generally, you can keep the rest of Koonce's fingerings intact, just moving a note over from the regular A to the low A here and there. There are also images of the Bach autographs in the back of the book if you want to read from them, but some are in flats...
> 
> Other than that, I have mostly done what our resident expert Given to Fly has, just moving things down an octave when it makes for a good effect or enhances the integrity of a line.
> 
> There is actually some 19th century 7-string repertoire out there, though I'm not super familiar with it. Some works by Napoleon Coste (a 7-string player) include optional bass notes below the range of normal guitar. I've also heard rumblings of discoveries of manuscripts of 7-string guitar music in Mexico and Russia - I believe in both cases it's associated with the travels of European composers, not traditional music from those countries. I don't think any of it has been compiled or published yet, but keep your eyes open.



I have Frank Koonce's book as well but I felt recommending the Complete Bach Lute Works might be overwhelming to start with. You are right though, tuning the 7th string down to an A eliminates most, if not all, transpositions of the bass. 

You are also right about 19th century guitar music. The 7th string was usually tuned to D and the 8th string would have been a G but the tuning changed depending on the key of the piece. _Hungarian Fantasy_ by J.K Mertz has a low A indicated with an _8va_ symbol but it only appears once (perhaps twice). The music translates to the 6 string guitar so well that the lower bass notes are not really missed by the listener, especially if they never knew they were there to begin with. 

The Russian 7 string guitar is its own thing. The guitar is designed different, tuned different, and it has its own specific repertoire. The only music that is played on the Russian 7 string guitar is Russian 7 string guitar music and I think the Russians want to keep it that way. This is not a bad thing either. I would compare it to something like American bluegrass. At no point is anyone going to tell the banjo player, "You know, you don't always have to play 16th notes for the entire song. Why not try playing something different?"


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## bostjan

tedtan said:


> Just to be a smart @ss, what about these:
> 
> ...stuff...



Yeah, I have played quite a few of those myself, and do still play piano and sitar.

It's a different mindset between playing these instruments and brass instruments and woodwinds. In fact, a marimba, vibes, glass armonica, etc., it's all more or less the same basic idea of notes laid out in a matrix from which you can choose.

On a woodwind, the notes are not set up in a linear fashion, and the shape of your mouth and your breath control mean everything. I'd throw sax into that set, too. Sax, flute, clarinet, oboe, english horn, you get the idea.

On brass, the technique is even more about mouth and breath control, and very little is laid out for fingers. I'm talking trumpet, trombone, french horn, etc.

That's why you often see guys play bass and piano, or guitar and piano, or clarinet and sax, or trumpet and trombone. You rarely see guys fully master instruments from different groups, but it happens sometimes. I've tried to learn saxophone, and nothing I knew about guitar, bass, piano, drums, or trombone helped me at all. I used to play flute pretty well, but I got away from it for a few years and coming back was near impossible.


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## LordCashew

Given To Fly said:


> The Russian 7 string guitar is its own thing. The guitar is designed different, tuned different, and it has its own specific repertoire. The only music that is played on the Russian 7 string guitar is Russian 7 string guitar music and I think the Russians want to keep it that way. This is not a bad thing either. I would compare it to something like American bluegrass. At no point is anyone going to tell the banjo player, "You know, you don't always have to play 16th notes for the entire song. Why not try playing something different?"



Right, I'm aware that the Russian seven-string is a different animal. The repertoire I'm talking about was actually written for classical seven-string with a low B. I was discussing seven string rep with an instructor over beers when he brought up this stuff from Russia. I also assumed it was folk/open tuned stuff but he assured me it was not - in fact I believe he said it was somehow influenced by Sor's time in Moscow. I've been meaning to follow up with him about that conversation because I'm a little hazy on the details... 

In other news, I recently got a Milagro MRC-7. I know guys on this board have had some varied experiences with the Bartolex company, but my particular instrument is outstanding. Aside from the shiny lacquer finish, it could pass for something a few times as expensive as what I paid for it used. The woods and workmanship are quite nice, and it has a powerful, colorful sound. The string spacing is a bit narrower than normal, but I adjusted quickly and it hasn't been a problem.


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## Given To Fly

LordIronSpatula said:


> Right, I'm aware that the Russian seven-string is a different animal. The repertoire I'm talking about was actually written for classical seven-string with a low B. I was discussing seven string rep with an instructor over beers when he brought up this stuff from Russia. I also assumed it was folk/open tuned stuff but he assured me it was not - in fact I believe he said it was somehow influenced by Sor's time in Moscow. I've been meaning to follow up with him about that conversation because I'm a little hazy on the details...
> 
> In other news, I recently got a Milagro MRC-7. I know guys on this board have had some varied experiences with the Bartolex company, but my particular instrument is outstanding. Aside from the shiny lacquer finish, it could pass for something a few times as expensive as what I paid for it used. The woods and workmanship are quite nice, and it has a powerful, colorful sound. The string spacing is a bit narrower than normal, but I adjusted quickly and it hasn't been a problem.



Shows you what I know. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Congrats on the guitar by the way!


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## LordCashew

Given To Fly said:


> Shows you what I know.



Quite a bit, apparently.


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## ramses

Where do you guys get your 7th string?


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## LordCashew

ramses said:


> Where do you guys get your 7th string?



I get single D'addarios from juststrings.com. I use .052 for low D and .060 for low A to get comparable tone and feel to the EJ46 high tension sets I usually get locally. Due to the fact that they're a little tougher and don't get quite as much use, the bigger strings usually outlast the rest of the set. I only need to change them every other time or so unless I have an important performance, but YMMV.

http://www.juststrings.com/dad-nyl052w.html

http://www.juststrings.com/dad-nyl060w.html


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## Given To Fly

ramses said:


> Where do you guys get your 7th string?



I do exactly what LordIronSpatula does except I buy strings from stringsbymail.com and I use a .54 D'Addario for the 7th string.


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## LordCashew

It seems our friend Ramses has been a bit coy about the reason for his question... Everyone in this thread ought to check out his glorious NGD.

www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4685158


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## ramses

LordIronSpatula said:


> It seems our friend Ramses has been a bit coy about the reason for his question... Everyone in this thread ought to check out his glorious NGD.
> 
> www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4685158


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