# Help for settings btb 5 string with para EQ/contemplating a custom preamp



## Deadnightshade (Nov 6, 2013)

I have had this older btb 5 string for some time now (trans quilt veneer).I really like it playwise,and I enjoy the longer scale.

The bass looks like this (web picture) and it has korean bartolini pickups,with a 18v onboard preamp.











However I seem to find it a bit difficult to get a variety of useable tones out of the preamp.For both clean and semi-distorted tones my knobs settings are as following:

blend 50%
bass 20-25%
treble 45-55%
parametric frequency cranked
parametric gain around 75%


I learned this trick with the parametric EQ from another forum and it suits me up to now.However I don't find I can use it to its true potential,as the bass and treble knob don't seem to do their job well enough to let me experiment with the frequency I want to boost/cut apart from the trick above.I mean I find it extreme that I have to keep bass that low with the pickups blended at 50%.

I use a pd hd desktop,with slightly modified meambobbo's patches (they go easy on bass frequencies it's not like the bass is super boosted in the patches therefore I need to tame them from the bass knob).


So any btb owners that can share some wisdom?




For the second part of the thread title:

A local luthier that I know makes his own custom bass preamp (that's somewhat similar to fodera's as I'm told) consisting of a master volume,blend,bass,mid,treble,and the mids can be altered from a special switch in the electronics cavity (default is 500hz though).



If i remember correctly the EQ in this case only attenuates the given frequencies of each knob,but you can regulate this by using lower master vol settings so that you can bring the whole signal down and then boost what you wish.When bass,treble and mids are all the way down to zero the sound is reminiscent more of a passive function.

I've heard this preamp on a couple of basses and it seems to work really great for all around clean bass tones,but I'm afraid I might have a problem dealing a great semi-distorted tone.


The pricing of this preamp is lower than an aguilar preamp (possibly I get a friendly pricing since I already have one instrument from him,my brother has a fretless bass and he has already started a second fretted build,some tech work etc)



So the purpose of this thread is to hear what you guys have to say about btb eq settings,as a combination of controls I haven't thought of might give me another sound to play with and postpone getting another preamp.Also,what are your thoughts about the philosophy of the custom preamp I described?


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## TheEmptyCell (Nov 6, 2013)

Set everything to the center detent, and then just play around for a good, long while with the pickup blend knob. Figure out what inherent tones lie along the travel of that knob, then start turning each other knob, one at a time, to find how they individually change your tone.

I don't know how or why the preamp you described would change the EQ control frequency centers when you turn the volume knob down. How do you just turn the volume down then?


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 6, 2013)

TheEmptyCell said:


> Set everything to the center detent, and then just play around for a good, long while with the pickup blend knob. Figure out what inherent tones lie along the travel of that knob, then start turning each other knob, one at a time, to find how they individually change your tone.
> 
> I don't know how or why the preamp you described would change the EQ control frequency centers when you turn the volume knob down. How do you just turn the volume down then?



I've tried to sweep the controls as you said when I first got the bass,but I will lack control in either the bass or treble.I'll try it again though


As for the preamp I described,the center of the mids doesn't change.You can change it by a seperate special control that is going to be inside the electronics cavity and will not be changed on the go like a regular potentiometer.

The idea behind how you "cut" (at least how I understood it ) is the following:

Suppose you start with master volume full.You boost bass,mid and treble to taste.The eq bands are somewhat broader than the btb's.If some eq control had to be raised too much to get the response you want,you lower a bit the master volume leaving the control that was too much intact,then you compensate by boosting a little the other controls.Essentially you don't attenuate a specific frequency,you just boost the ones you want with a broad Q and adjust the master volume accordingly.

If the bands were to have a neutral point so that you can both cut and amplify,the Q should be less broad in order to get best of both worlds (broad Q for frequency amplification,less broad Q for attenuation),but that's not the case.


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## Winspear (Nov 6, 2013)

I would start by listening to just the DI bass. Most of the tone lies there. Get the best tone you can on the bass itself, then worry about the amplifier. Could you give a clip of the DI and your tone?


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## TheEmptyCell (Nov 6, 2013)

The preamp you're looking at is boost only? I'd pass and get any number of other preamps that boost and cut. But seriously, set everything flat and then try adjusting the EQ through your amp/ modeler.

I find active EQ's get in the way of achieving my tone, so I'd recommend a set of passive pickups and electronics.


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## Winspear (Nov 6, 2013)

^ I've found active basses to still have a lot more of a character even when set flat. But yeah, set it flat until you know exactly what you want from it. And experiment to find if the 'bass' on the bass sounds better than the 'bass' on the amp, etc. 

I'd also be surprised if the preamp is boost only, but to be honest I'm not sure how common that is. The pots might not be indented to have a middle that you can feel, but are you certain?


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 7, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ I've found active basses to still have a lot more of a character even when set flat. But yeah, set it flat until you know exactly what you want from it. And experiment to find if the 'bass' on the bass sounds better than the 'bass' on the amp, etc.




I think that's my problem,I dislike the bass knob from the bass.I'll put up some DI/patch comparison later



EtherealEntity said:


> I'd also be surprised if the preamp is boost only, but to be honest I'm not sure how common that is. The pots might not be indented to have a middle that you can feel, but are you certain?



I'm pretty certain that's the case.I remember him commenting on that when all EQ controls are set to zero you got more of a passive sound,where no boosts occur apart from controlling the signal from the master volume.Supposedly the master volume is designed in such a way that not having it always at max is kind of imperative if you almost crank one EQ control. 

My brother has this preamp in his fretless bass,with the only difference that he doesn't have master volume+blend,just 1 volume for each pickup.I fiddled with that a little and I think it was indeed boost only.I'l ask the luthier again though to make sure.


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## dax21 (Nov 7, 2013)

What tuning are you in and what strings are you using? Maybe try putting some seriously heavy gauge strings to rack up the tension, and then try experimenting with neck pickup?

I usually have my preamp as follows - bass centered, highs halfway between centered and all the way up, balance halfway between centered and bridge pickup, mids just a tad bit higher than centered (on my BTB mids are super sensitivive), and I keep the mid frequency either slightly below or above the center, depending if I want more of the high mid grind or low mid growl (first works better with distortion, latter with cleans so I alternate). 
Might not be of much help though since I got EMGs.

Posting a DI would help a lot really.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 7, 2013)

I slapped a test really quick.Excuse the takes.

First part is bass DI.Second is meambobbo's clean patch slightly tweaked (sounds like shit actually I need to tweak it more).Third is meambobbo's distorted bass patch,again just slightly tweaked.

https://soundcloud.com/dimitris-chaviaras/bass-help/s-pkL1b





dax21 said:


> What tuning are you in and what strings are you using? Maybe try putting some seriously heavy gauge strings to rack up the tension, and then try experimenting with neck pickup?
> 
> I usually have my preamp as follows - bass centered, highs halfway between centered and all the way up, balance halfway between centered and bridge pickup, mids just a tad bit higher than centered (on my BTB mids are super sensitivive), and I keep the mid frequency either slightly below or above the center, depending if I want more of the high mid grind or low mid growl (first works better with distortion, latter with cleans so I alternate).
> Might not be of much help though since I got EMGs.
> ...




Standard tuning,but I usually drop the E string to D as right now I only have a 6 string tuned to DADGAD in my house.Strings are d'addario 45's.Action is low and I have some tolerable (for my taste) buzz when picking.

The frequency knob is indeed really sensitive.I'd like it more if it was indented in a specific frequency around the middle as a landmark ,though.


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## TheEmptyCell (Nov 7, 2013)

Your strings sound very, very dead. You may find a set of steel strings will sound better for your tonal goals.


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## dax21 (Nov 7, 2013)

Gotta agree, those strings sound seriously dead.


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## LordCashew (Nov 7, 2013)

TheEmptyCell said:


> Your strings sound very, very dead. You may find a set of steel strings will sound better for your tonal goals.



+1! I almost posted this when the thread first came up but after reading some really complicated discussion of EQ I didn't want to offend anyone with such a simple suggestion. 

IME the strings are probably the most important component of tone. The instrument, electronics and the rest of the signal chain don't have much to work with unless the strings sound good. You can't boost or adjust the frequencies that are missing from a dead set. Plus compared to everything else strings are a relatively inexpensive upgrade.

But if you actually _prefer_ the tone of dead rounds, as some do, that's your call.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 7, 2013)

You are actually right the strings are indeed old (almost a year) but they haven't seen much playtime so it corresponds to about 6 months of playing.As a guitarist the price of bass strings really stings as I usually get something like 3 custom guitar sets with that. Yes I need to change them now I know  Funny thing a week ago my brother who is a bassist was here and he told me that the strings can hold a bit more,so it wasn't the first thing to cross my mind.

I agree that fresh strings can give a lot,but in the bass frequencies department the difference isn't that drastic (hence some prefer dead strings I guess),so it could only solve one half of the problem (mids and highs).Maybe the end result also got worse by the preamp settings that I use..

Today I was experimenting with a mix and I ended up boosting the distorted sound you hear in the clip at like 40 hz quite a lot,in order to bring back the thump that was missing cause I had the preamp bass knob at 20% (I constantly had a bulb mix for reference),as well as I dipped at 500Hz.The thing is that boosting the bass knob instead of having to do in via DAW doesn't yield the same result,as it makes the tone also boomy.I will try again to replicate these changes with the preamp eq and a fresh pair of strings as soon as I get them.

Any idea where the 500hz region lie in the btb's parametric?I kind of hate that I can't adjust Q to sweep across frequencies to be honest


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## dax21 (Nov 7, 2013)

No idea, mine doesn't have center detent either so it's hard to say. Try using a spectrum analyzer in your DAW while messing with the knob?

From what you said, I imagine you are talking about recording first and foremost? If so, try splitting your signal into 3 tracks - lows, mids and highs. Leave lows clean, experiment with different plugins for mids and highs. I remember getting some real nice results by using distortion on highs and overdrive for mids (BOD works wonders, plus it's free). Then it's just a matter of applying right amounts of compression and blending it all back into one coherent mess. This is more within mixing territory though, but I'm just throwing ideas out there. 

Also I'm pretty sure that new strings alone will fix most of your problems. Get a 20$ set of stainless steels, it doesn't have to be custom Circle K.


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## Orgalmer (Nov 7, 2013)

From the looks of it that's a BTB3 or 5 series. I have a BTB776 which has Bartolini pickups/preamp in it, and I find it's best to leave it at full volume with everything else flat. Interestingly, I find pushing the pickup selector to bridge gives to a good bass distortion tone (if a little honky) but other than that I'd be using my amp to get your sound.

If it's any help, i run a Hartke LH1000 through an SWR 8x10, and that gives me a pretty good dry sound with very little changes (bass and treble sits at 5 and the mid sits at 6 on the amp).


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 8, 2013)

dax21 said:


> No idea, mine doesn't have center detent either so it's hard to say. Try using a spectrum analyzer in your DAW while messing with the knob?
> 
> From what you said, I imagine you are talking about recording first and foremost? If so, try splitting your signal into 3 tracks - lows, mids and highs. Leave lows clean, experiment with different plugins for mids and highs. I remember getting some real nice results by using distortion on highs and overdrive for mids (BOD works wonders, plus it's free). Then it's just a matter of applying right amounts of compression and blending it all back into one coherent mess. This is more within mixing territory though, but I'm just throwing ideas out there.
> 
> Also I'm pretty sure that new strings alone will fix most of your problems. Get a 20$ set of stainless steels, it doesn't have to be custom Circle K.



Unless I'm using the spectrum wrong,it's a bit messy to tell.I'll look into it further

I've never heard of splitting the signal into 3 tracks.Not a bad idea.Usually it's done with 2 tracks,one clean marginally breaking up,and one distorted with less bass/heavily high passed.Although I like the idea,I feel like I've wasted money if I don't take advantage of my pod to its true potential,because I know it can give me the tone I want.Plugins are easier to use (at least for me),but you get the idea.




Orgalmer said:


> From the looks of it that's a BTB3 or 5 series. I have a BTB776 which has Bartolini pickups/preamp in it, and I find it's best to leave it at full volume with everything else flat. Interestingly, I find pushing the pickup selector to bridge gives to a good bass distortion tone (if a little honky) but other than that I'd be using my amp to get your sound.
> 
> If it's any help, i run a Hartke LH1000 through an SWR 8x10, and that gives me a pretty good dry sound with very little changes (bass and treble sits at 5 and the mid sits at 6 on the amp).



It has (korean) Bartolini pickups.Not sure if the preamp is bartolini or just ibanez's stock one.I think it's called "vari-mid".

The flat procedure is a good idea,however I don't own a bass amp and won't own one in the near future.I'm working with a pod desktop.The point remains though,it's just pod needs typically more tweaking than a half-decent amp.


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## TheEmptyCell (Nov 11, 2013)

FWIW, I owned two of those BTB's at different times, same model but two different colors. I never cared for the tone of them. Mine had Ibanez electronics, not Bartolini, but it never had a great tone at any setting.

New strings will make a world of difference, don't just put them off because you think they won't affect your low notes in a positive way. Do you use any compression in your recordings?


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 11, 2013)

I use both pre and post compression,just on the pod though.Takes off some adjustability in regards to ratio,attack & release time,but it does the job.

I've been messing around the past days with patches following advice from Ola Englund's videos and the video where nolly showcases his axe fxII firmware 9 patches, and I end up with a better distorted tone.I'll change the strings as soon as a music store is in my way to get an even better result,and post a comparative clip afterwards.

FYI,I end up with a patch consisting of a DI tone (no amp or cab sim),a boosted distortion channel heavily high passed.Both signals were low passed relatively strictly,but I compensated by boosting both of them at 3.5 KHz,as nolly's bass patch was called "smacky bass",so I searched which frequencies brings the smack up to a bass drum kick,and I applied it to the bass.

As for the btb's preamp,I end up cutting around 500Hz from the parametric ,with the blend favoring the bridge pickup.Slightly above 50% bass,and if I remember correctly,attenuated treble.


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