# Females and Metal



## Brill (Jul 6, 2012)

Anyone got some opinions on Females in the music industry. And women In Metal? And also Bands with Women in them  I know a couple, But its always nice to spread knowledge.


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## Murmel (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't get why it should matter. It's definitely a male dominated genre though. But there are probably more female metal fans than we know off, they aren't just as vocal about it.

And I hate it when girls dress metal.


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## butterschnapps (Jul 6, 2012)

How about girls like Noomi Rapace or Rooney Mara in Girl With The Dragon Tattoo?
So hawttt.

P.S.
I leave you with this.
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+commander+in+chief+norway


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## skeels (Jul 6, 2012)

Another don't matter.

Except I heart metal chicks.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't understand the topic... 

I'll tell you what kind of women I *do* have an opinion on... Redheads and ones with big round butts. I like em and I want em [all]. 



Murmel said:


> And I hate it when girls dress metal.



Does seem to come across a bit contrived, no? But opinions like this may very well be why they aren't as vocal. Look at how we tear each other apart over the smallest difference in opinion on these forums.


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## Floppystrings (Jul 6, 2012)

Pretty, great voice.


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## Brill (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I don't understand the topic...



Women and metal? What is your opinion on women who are in metal? Are you a person who thinks everything is gender Specific? OR the opposite and think Metal is a place for men?


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

I think a lot of things *are* gender-specific although I feel most things shouldn't be. We create boundaries in our minds and let that limit us. It's a shame. It kind of bugs me that whenever a woman DOES do something noteworthy musically we just want to objectify her and talk about how "hot" she is and effectively push her into the group of talentless pretty faces.

But all in all it shouldn't really matter. People just like to make something out of nothing. I suppose it makes the day go by faster.


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## Murmel (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Does seem to come across a bit contrived, no? But opinions like this may very well be why they aren't as vocal. Look at how we tear each other apart over the smallest difference in opinion on these forums.



I don't know what contrived means, so I'll just.. 

Obviously I don't say anything, they can dress however they want. I'm just not the least attracted to it. Sure there are exceptions, but they are very few.
I also believe I'm the only male alive that doesn't think redheads are attractive


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Contrived - Deliberately created rather than coming about spontaneously or naturally.


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## Murmel (Jul 6, 2012)

So you mean I created this dislike for metal dressed women and that it's not something I'm just not naturally attracted to?

I'm confused


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Nope... Other way around. That a lot of "metal chicks" do it for attention rather than actually being into "the lifestyle" or whatever the hell you wanna call it.

But with the style of dress aside, men are equally diva-like. Example: Axl Rose.


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## Murmel (Jul 6, 2012)

Oh, well sure, some probably do. But I doubt a lot of them do it to be popular or whatever since it's not cool at all to look like a metalhead. At least not here. People are very unoriginal in how they dress here, both guys and girls.
You see the least and the most variety among girls, kinda weird.

Then again, the women/girls who DO have that style... They're often unattractive to begin with, and it all just becomes a complete fail because they pull it off really badly. In my eyes it doesn't help their case.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

For some reason I feel like a lot of American women do, but I could just be a cynical douchebag. Completely reasonable assumption.


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## Murmel (Jul 6, 2012)

Popular culture is different where me and you live. I bet it's more accepted but at the same time not to be a metal fan in America.


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## steve1 (Jul 6, 2012)

This Thread said:


> I'm not sexist, but.....


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Awesome contribution... 

By the way... Sheila E doesn't really get as much recognition as she deserves if women in music is to be considered amazing. 






Also, which Ibby model is that? I swore I didn't like any of their new X shapes, but that doesn't look too bad.


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I think a lot of things *are* gender-specific although I feel most things shouldn't be. We create boundaries in our minds and let that limit us. It's a shame. *It kind of bugs me that whenever a woman DOES do something noteworthy musically we just want to objectify her and talk about how "hot" she is and effectively push her into the group of talentless pretty faces.*
> 
> But all in all it shouldn't really matter. People just like to make something out of nothing. I suppose it makes the day go by faster.


This.

And Kat Katz has all of my respect.




She is nothing but awesome. Her and Julie Christmas are rare in that they're women who don't come across as trying to capitalize on the fact that they are women who are making (heavier) music. And yeah, there's a lot of women out there who don't do that and get thrown into that category anyway and it's bullshit, but they're two that I know of whose work I fucking love.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

^ I feel like I've vaguely heard that second band mentioned a time or two. Good stuff it is...


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## Valennic (Jul 6, 2012)

My girlfriend is more brutal than all of you.

She growls and doesnt afraid of anything.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

But does she look as good in tight jeans? 

Don't make me post pics.


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> But does she look as good in tight jeans?
> 
> Don't make me post pics.


WHAT DID WE JUST TALK ABOUT


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## HK_Derek (Jul 6, 2012)

I can still remember reading the interview with Gene Simmons where he said "Women can't play rock & roll". 

Angela Gossow is one of the few truly genuine Metal women. She's authentic all the way down to the bone.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

I was gonna post pics of my ass... Fine then... 

Also, Angela = SO FUCKING AWESOME. Arch Enemy in general is good stuff at least as far as the last time I heard anything from them (which admittedly was a while ago).


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## Valennic (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> But does she look as good in tight jeans?
> 
> Don't make me post pics.



Bitch please 

She has a magnificent black ass.

She's pale as the moon.


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 6, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I was gonna post pics of my ass... Fine then...


...


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)




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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Since you fuckers got me listening to them now...


I love absolutely EVERYTHING about Tarja. That voice is 


And Anettes is pretty fuckin' good too. I think she fits Nightwish's style equally well although I didn't like her much at first...



She sings the fuck outa this one too


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 6, 2012)

i enjoy women that listen to metal just not when they are in a band, especially when they're vocalists. unless they're actually singing then i dont mind it as much.


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## misingonestring (Jul 6, 2012)

I found the only metal chick who was trve enough in my town and I plan on marrying that woman. :smug:


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## CrownofWorms (Jul 6, 2012)

There are chicks in brutal music


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## nickgray (Jul 6, 2012)

Who needs females when we have this:


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

True... True...


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## Powermetalbass (Jul 6, 2012)

Well since the 80's ended if any band needed a high end singer they would have to go female (or bring out the spandex on a guy with no balls) you can find all kinds a women in metal, but as said previously metal is male dominated. check out the following

Iron Maidens - all female iron maiden tribute
Epica - European power metal
Nightwish - Finnish Symphonic Metal
Seven Kingdoms - USA Power metal
The Agonist - Canadian death metal?
Unleash the Archers - Canadian Powerish metal
Kittie - Canadian girl metal (bad girl metal, but none the less)

and there is more: Tristania
Sirenia
Delain
Elis
After Forever
Visions of Atlantis
Nemesea
Arch Enemy


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jul 6, 2012)

Singing wise I prefer to hear a females voice. Some women are just badass. Plus I too LOVE rocker/ metal chicks.  

She's insane live BTW. Doesn't sound much different if at all. On stage she has that energy too. I would marry her


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## The Uncreator (Jul 6, 2012)

I fucking love a womans voice in Metal. I always wanted to hear Iced Earth with Simone Simmons or something. 

Also, when Opeth had Axenrot's girlfriend do vocals on Coil, I loved it. There aren't a lot of bands I wouldnt want to hear female vocals in a song or two.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jul 6, 2012)

The Uncreator said:


> I fucking love a womans voice in Metal. I always wanted to hear Iced Earth with Simone Simmons or something.
> 
> Also, when Opeth had Axenrot's girlfriend do vocals on Coil, I loved it. There aren't a lot of bands I wouldnt want to hear female vocals in a song or two.


 SO with you on that.


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## refusetofall87 (Jul 6, 2012)

it shouldnt really matter, we all bleed red at the end of the day


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

refusetofall87 said:


> it shouldnt really matter, we all bleed red at the end of the day



True on many levels... Being a black guy in metal used to be "weird" too. 

"YOU listen to THAT?!" I still get asked that sometimes in exactly that way.


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## Zamm Bell (Jul 6, 2012)

I am not having a go at anyone on this thread at all, I just feel there is an issue with how females in metal are perceived from my personal experience. I am in a band, with a female singer/sceamer whatever you want to call it, it angers me that people put "female" metal in a different bracket, that they bring it out like some novelty. I understand there are some bands who make a point of being female fronted, but in the end, just because someone is female and happens to play metal shouldn't change the opinion of a band, if the music is genuine and you like it, then great.

Unfortunately, sometimes as soon as people see a female in a band they don't take it seriously, and make patronising comments, they disregard the quality of the music and the talent of the female member.


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## The Grief Hole (Jul 6, 2012)

I see quite a few underground bands in Japan with female members. Sept Star Sete, Flagitious Idiosyncrsy In The Dilapidation and Gallhammer come to mind (but Gallhammer aren't so good.)


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## tacotiklah (Jul 6, 2012)

Women that like metal?






Zamm Bell said:


> I am not having a go at anyone on this thread at all, I just feel there is an issue with how females in metal are perceived from my personal experience. I am in a band, with a female singer/sceamer whatever you want to call it, it angers me that people put "female" metal in a different bracket, that they bring it out like some novelty. I understand there are some bands who make a point of being female fronted, but in the end, just because someone is female and happens to play metal shouldn't change the opinion of a band, if the music is genuine and you like it, then great.
> 
> Unfortunately, sometimes as soon as people see a female in a band they don't take it seriously, and make patronising comments, they disregard the quality of the music and the talent of the female member.



Agree with you here completely. I wanna be known in the metal community for my talents as a musician, not my gender.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Fleetwood Mac ftw


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## artmachine (Jul 6, 2012)

Zamm Bell said:


> I am not having a go at anyone on this thread at all, I just feel there is an issue with how females in metal are perceived from my personal experience. I am in a band, with a female singer/sceamer whatever you want to call it, it angers me that people put "female" metal in a different bracket, that they bring it out like some novelty. I understand there are some bands who make a point of being female fronted, but in the end, just because someone is female and happens to play metal shouldn't change the opinion of a band, if the music is genuine and you like it, then great.
> 
> Unfortunately, sometimes as soon as people see a female in a band they don't take it seriously, and make patronising comments, they disregard the quality of the music and the talent of the female member.


I agree with this too and it sucks. It's kind of a double edged sword, though, because aggresive music can appear very misogynistic and can be precieved as only appropriate for men, which tends to keep women on the sidelines(sadly). But then when a female says, "screw that, I live and breathe this. I just want to create something I feel passionate about", she becomes a novelty, a joke, a sex symbol or simply isn't accepted at all.

Although, as much as I blame men for keeping women in the minority, there is still a huge number of females who are under the impression that playing an intstrument or having a genuine interest in aggresive music just isn't appropriate. People judge each other in every circle and clique and create ridiculous boundaries for themselves, which limit them in so many ways. No one is REALLY stopping anyone from doing what they love(at least from what I've seen). There should be no restrictions or misconceptions on either side of the fence. A true passion for something should give you tunnel vision and should allow you to block out all ignorance that people try to throw at you.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

^ Rep'd

Appropriate name too considering your apparent attitude toward making music.


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## Polythoral (Jul 6, 2012)

Our local metal woman: 

Ridiculous solo work. One of the only decent local musicians we have. :x


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## ilyti (Jul 6, 2012)

highlordmugfug said:


> She is nothing but awesome. Her and Julie Christmas are rare in that they're women who don't come across as trying to capitalize on the fact that they are women who are making (heavier) music. And yeah, there's a lot of women out there who don't do that and get thrown into that category anyway and it's bullshit, but they're two that I know of whose work I fucking love.



This is the point of the thread.

What's the confusion about? 






I'd like to add that my wife and I met through a Metallica forum. We share band shirts, and her metal style is and never was contrived at all. A lot of generalizations being thrown around in here.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

Don't be so butthurt. No one spoke in absolutes. Walk it off.


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## ilyti (Jul 6, 2012)

Sorry if it came off that way, I'm not actually offended. I was just pointing out my own experience.


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## TheSpaceforthis (Jul 6, 2012)

There are many female vocalists and guitar players right now that are very good

Nita Strauss, The commander-in-chief (dunno her real name), Sabine Weniger, Alyssa White-Gluz, Orianthi, Elize Ryd, Anneke VanIcantspellherlastname, Aya Stefanowicz (I love her polish accent), Cristina Scabbia, Simone Simmons, Lzzy Hale, Sebastian Bach, Nina Treml...

And many more.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

The Commander in Chief is such a baller name  

That's homegirl on the first page w the green Ibby, no?


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## MistaSnowman (Jul 6, 2012)

^one of which being....Amy Lee!!!


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

^I always liked her but couldn't fully get into the band.


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## MistaSnowman (Jul 6, 2012)

IMO...she IS the band!


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 6, 2012)

More or less


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## TheSpaceforthis (Jul 6, 2012)

Thats a really nice performance there by evanescence.

Yeah she is pretty good too. I also liked the girl who used to sing in Ambeon, with a really sweet tone/color of voice, cant remember her name...I guess she retired from music, a pity.


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## ilyti (Jul 6, 2012)

TheSpaceforthis said:


> Anneke VanIcantspellherlastname


Giersbergen 

While we're on the subject of Evenescence, did anyone else think their newest album was surprisingly good? Nothing too out-there of course, but I mean, good solid pop-rock tunes with a pretty heavy sound.



TheSpaceforthis said:


> Yeah she is pretty good too. I also liked the girl who used to sing in Ambeon, with a really sweet tone/color of voice, cant remember her name...I guess she retired from music, a pity.


Astrid Van der Veen. She did a few albums since Ambeon but it's all indie rock. That's the thing about natural talent. Doesn't guarantee good taste.


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## Ocara-Jacob (Jul 6, 2012)

Girls in metal? You mean... Like Spencer Sotelo? 
/stupid jokes. 

Naw Spencer's beard is 100% hardcore manliness. I think it really depends on the person in question. Some women can pull it off, but sometimes... no.


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## Ninjahat (Jul 6, 2012)

EEEW GIRLS?! yuck.

Gimme sweeps.


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## Brill (Jul 7, 2012)

I didn't Intend for this to be sexist... I am 100% against sexism... I was hoping to find some new bands that have a female vocalist (Women tend to have a nice calming voice, Giving a good contrast with most metal music, And I also have a female friend who will be providing vocals for me so I wanted to get some examples of good bands with a female singer).

I also like to hear what other people's opinion on topics are.. xD


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## Sam MJ (Jul 7, 2012)

Personally I really like female vocals in metal, it gives everything more dynamics and, for me atleast, it just works.

Epica is definitely in my top 3 bands, heres one of my favourite songs of theirs!
 

I really don't get why metal is such a male dominated genre to be honest, its great that bands like this are getting more and more support.


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## Dan_Vacant (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm trying to start a alternative metal band with two chicks one doing vocals and the otehr doing gutiar maybe. the singer may also do guitar. (3 guitars = teh brootlaz or just a muddy sound)


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## SenorDingDong (Jul 7, 2012)

Alyssa White-Gluz of The Agonist is a phenomenal vocalist.
































....and she's my big metal-chick crush 













I personally love female vocals, and a slew of great bands have female vocalists, such as Flyleaf, Unsun, and In This Moment. I believe female vocalists are (usually) better at putting emotion into their vocal work.


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## Dan_Vacant (Jul 7, 2012)

After posting in here I pulled up In This Moment on youtube.


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## CyborgSlunk (Jul 7, 2012)

Polythoral said:


> Our local metal woman:
> 
> Ridiculous solo work. One of the only decent local musicians we have. :x




Wow, that was great! Only needs some better production and it´ll kick ass.

I often feel that those who dress "metal" and wear band shirts etc. are in just for the scene, but those who are in for the music are a little ashamed that they listen to this kind of music. We have this one girl at our school who always wears big boots, dresses black, has lots of eyeliner, and wears those typical "entry level" metal band shirts. She has a boyfriend who says he loves her because she is so unique and doesn´t care what others think of her .


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## ittoa666 (Jul 7, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> Thank me later. Courtney Cox is amazing.



 Yes she is.


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## artmachine (Jul 7, 2012)

How has no one mentioned Walls of Jericho yet?


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 7, 2012)

Loxodrome said:


> I didn't Intend for this to be sexist... I am 100% against sexism... I was hoping to find some new bands that have a female vocalist (Women tend to have a nice calming voice, Giving a good contrast with most metal music, And I also have a female friend who will be providing vocals for me so I wanted to get some examples of good bands with a female singer).
> 
> I also like to hear what other people's opinion on topics are.. xD






I'm calm as a motherfucker right now.


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## Xaios (Jul 7, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


>



This is the part that annoys me about some women in metal. This picture deliberately plays up the whole "OMG, I'm a cute hawt rebel metal chick!" aspect, and it's completely crass. Women seem to be afraid that, if they're not willing use their feminine wiles to market themselves, no one will pay attention to them. However, whenever I see something like this, it only serves to cast a shadow of doubt on their musical integrity, as far as I'm concerned.

Having said that, my favorite "woman in metal" would probably be Leilindel from the band Unexpect. She's supremely capable of both operatic cleans and harsh screams. Additionally, her vocals are used as one thread in the tapestry that is Unexpect's music, they don't focus on it simply because OMG FEMALE METAL SINGER!


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 7, 2012)

Xaios gets it.

Rep'd.


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## skeels (Jul 7, 2012)

Three words.

Wendy

O.

Williams




Toughest chick alive.








'Course... she's dead...


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## Ckackley (Jul 7, 2012)

Shameless plugging of my own band here.. We've got two women in the band and I love it. When we write they come up with stuff that a "guy" wouldn't . Different perspective I guess..


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## Guitarman700 (Jul 7, 2012)

I can't believe Grace Perry hasn't been mentioned. She's an amazing frontwoman and a total sweetheart on and off the stage. Much respect.


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## thrsher (Jul 7, 2012)

ill just leave these here


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## Drakt (Jul 7, 2012)

Suprised no one has mentioned aliases yet.

I had listened to their album for a while without even realising the guitarist was female, most girls in metal seem a bit "omg im a girl in metal!" where she seems pretty genuine and not playing on the female aspect.


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## trianglebutt (Jul 7, 2012)

Xaios said:


>



Are the screams that start at 2:04 still her? Because that is insane.


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## Xaios (Jul 7, 2012)

ahumbleguitarist said:


> Are the screams that start at 2:04 still her? Because that is insane.



No, that's probably one of the other vocalists. Both the guitarists contribute harsh vocals as well. Most of her singing is clean, but you can hear her harsh vocals occasionally as well. The vocals right at 2:00 are her.


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## MetalGravy (Jul 7, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Awesome contribution...
> 
> By the way... Sheila E doesn't really get as much recognition as she deserves if women in music is to be considered amazing.
> 
> ...




The Falchion (X series - FALCHION | Ibanez guitars)


Also, how do you know that you're on SSO?


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## TheFerryMan (Jul 8, 2012)

seriously, no one mentioned Alexis brown? 
She's one of my favorite Vocalists (male of female)

Come on, heavy band with a Sistah in charge, how can you not love this.

(also, she gives Jasta a run for his money.)


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## CrownofWorms (Jul 8, 2012)

Xaios said:


> This is the part that annoys me about some women in metal. This picture deliberately plays up the whole "OMG, I'm a cute hawt rebel metal chick!" aspect, and it's completely crass. Women seem to be afraid that, if they're not willing use their feminine wiles to market themselves, no one will pay attention to them. However, whenever I see something like this, it only serves to cast a shadow of doubt on their musical integrity, as far as I'm concerned.



Exactly.

90% of girls in metal are used as a big gimmick. I mean look at In This Moment and Agonist. Its pretty much everything is used besides the chicks doing vocals are all based around those girls looks. It's like the other members don't exist and the music shouldn't be the main focus of the band.

I might actually make a thread about this


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## Tang (Jul 8, 2012)

Does Anneke count?


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## Azathoth43 (Jul 8, 2012)

artmachine said:


> How has no one mentioned Walls of Jericho yet?



Probably the same reason no one has mentioned Otep, too mainstream I guess.



Xaios said:


> This is the part that annoys me about some women in metal. This picture deliberately plays up the whole "OMG, I'm a cute hawt rebel metal chick!" aspect, and it's completely crass. Women seem to be afraid that, if they're not willing use their feminine wiles to market themselves, no one will pay attention to them. However, whenever I see something like this, it only serves to cast a shadow of doubt on their musical integrity, as far as I'm concerned.



Not trying to sound like an ass, but have you looked at any of the other girls in this thread? They are _all_ hot.

That's actually the problem I have with women in metal also. Where are the ones that are not attractive? If any of the women in this thread were over weight or unattractive I would bet most people would have different opinion.

I deal with the public on a daily basis, there are plenty of unattractive women out there. Am I to believe none of them can sing or play guitar (or other instrument). 

Not that I don't appreciate the beauty of the female form, but...


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## grunge782 (Jul 8, 2012)

I know this sounds stupid, but I think of metal as "war music". Anything with lower, heavy beats/drums or just rhythmic patterns in general is kind of testosterone driven. Look at rock, metal, and rap and their usage of drums. It's why such large drums were used across the world from America, to Rome, to Africa, to China for war. 

Women are naturally going to go for something softer, and more melodic driven. Now that is simply just a CURVE and doesn't cover everyone of course, but there is a curve of the population for what kind of music women like vs. men. 

All that said, I'm not going to follow the is/ought fallacy. Women should be able to listen and play any kind of music they want to just like men should. There are some very talented female metal musicians I enjoy listening to, and I would be glad to hear more.


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## FormerlyVintage (Jul 8, 2012)

TheSpaceforthis said:


> There are many female vocalists and guitar players right now that are very good
> 
> Nita Strauss, The commander-in-chief (dunno her real name), Sabine Weniger, Alyssa White-Gluz, Orianthi, Elize Ryd, Anneke VanIcantspellherlastname, Aya Stefanowicz (I love her polish accent), Cristina Scabbia, Simone Simmons, Lzzy Hale, *Sebastian Bach*, Nina Treml...
> 
> And many more.


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## TheFerryMan (Jul 8, 2012)

Azathoth43 said:


> That's actually the problem I have with women in metal also. Where are the ones that are not attractive? If any of the women in this thread were over weight or unattractive I would bet most people would have different opinion.
> 
> I deal with the public on a daily basis, there are plenty of unattractive women out there. Am I to believe none of them can sing or play guitar (or other instrument).
> 
> Not that I don't appreciate the beauty of the female form, but...


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## Zamm Bell (Jul 8, 2012)

Mask of Judas


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## schecter4life (Jul 8, 2012)

<---Female bassist in the most technically challenging metalcore i know of at the moment (thier newer stuff is far more technical then this song, This Calling is just my fav ATR song). Shes gorgeous in person too


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## Wrecklyss (Jul 8, 2012)

Personally, i like metal with female band members.

Back in the days before itunes when you actually had to go to the store and buy the cd though, it did feel kinda weird waiting in line with something from Kittie, Lacuna Coil, or Joan Jett in my hands. On the other hand, waiting in line with an Otep cd made me feel like a badass. Now i can download all of my guilty pleasure music in my underwear from my computer,


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## -42- (Jul 8, 2012)

No Acid King?



Or Christian Mistress? (Admittedly not exactly my favorite band.)



Or even Electric Wizard?



And I know that we're trying not to objectify women here, but Liz Buckingham is _hot_.


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## thesnowdog (Jul 8, 2012)

Another vote for Phantom Blue but I much prefer the debut Shrapnel release with Nicole Couch still on board. There doesn't seem to be much video readily available unfortunately.



Sad to have lost Michelle Meldrum at such a young age.


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## butterschnapps (Jul 9, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Awesome contribution...
> 
> By the way... Sheila E doesn't really get as much recognition as she deserves if women in music is to be considered amazing.
> 
> ...


 It's a one of a kind prototype called the Falchion.

The Commander-In-Chief > BIO


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## 3074326 (Jul 9, 2012)

Xaios said:


> This is the part that annoys me about some women in metal. This picture deliberately plays up the whole "OMG, I'm a cute hawt rebel metal chick!" aspect, and it's completely crass. Women seem to be afraid that, if they're not willing use their feminine wiles to market themselves, no one will pay attention to them. However, whenever I see something like this, it only serves to cast a shadow of doubt on their musical integrity, as far as I'm concerned.



I understand what you're saying, but I can go to Facebook and see 90% of my female friends with photos like this. Even probably half my male friends. Most of them aren't hipsters, and nearly all of them don't like metal. It's just a trendy picture of a human in a window. 

She is attractive. She can't do anything about it. Do you want her to hang her head in shame and put on a name tag that says "ugly" on it? I just don't understand what the problem is. If she's hot and talented, awesome. If she's just talented, even better. I don't think this photo matters much. The photo doesn't even have anything to do with music. For all we know someone could've saved her profile pic on Facebook. 

That being said, I do hate when people use appearance as a gimmick when they don't have much else going on. And that's not only a music thing.. just life in general.

tl;dr - I agree with your point, but I don't think it necessarily applies to that picture. Hot girls are hot, not really much they can do about it.


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## Mprinsje (Jul 9, 2012)

why isn't boris mentioned here yet?

Wata absolutely slays guitar wise:


good voice too:


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 9, 2012)

3074326 said:


> She is attractive. She can't do anything about it. Do you want her to hang her head in shame and put on a name tag that says "ugly" on it? I just don't understand what the problem is. If she's hot and talented, awesome. If she's just talented, even better. I don't think this photo matters much. The photo doesn't even have anything to do with music. For all we know someone could've saved her profile pic on Facebook.
> 
> That being said, I do hate when people use appearance as a gimmick when they don't have much else going on. And that's not only a music thing.. just life in general.


 
I agree dude what the flying fcuk looks has got to do with talent or musical integrity is beyond me, anyone saying that Courtney Cox (or any other good looking female in any genre tbh) they can't take seriously coz of the way she dresses and how hot she is... c'mon WTF is that?! If thats true then you must also belvie you can't take a guitarsit wearing a bucket on his head seriously as a musician either??? But thats different ay.... If Buckethead is no less gifted or talented coz he wears a KFC bucket on his head then just coz Counrtney Cox is gorgeous and don't hide the fact then the same applied ot her. When you watch her play guitar, she is a great guitarist, honestly some you need to pay attention, Courtney has been an incredible talent since she was 15, even playing & performing live with the likes of George Lynch & Adrian Belew... Those of you who can't take her seriously... What were you doing when you were 15?  

Apperance as a gimmick when there is no talent to back it up is bullsh1t but then tell that to the Kardashian's & Paris Hilton, way of the world unfortunatley but as far as all the women mentioned on this thread so far they all have alot more going on that just the gimmick of being a female in a metal band or being famous for being p1ssed on in a "stolen" p0rn tape... Anyone male or female, old or young, black or white trying to make it in metal today deserves the respect of their peers and this forum imo. 

Sorry to rant! LOL! 

My last two cents is a huge shout for Michelle Meldrum (RIP) Phanthom Blue & her band Meldrum were awesome. The youtube footage of her and Nicole Couch ripping it up live is awesome!


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 9, 2012)

Mprinsje said:


> why isn't boris mentioned here yet?
> 
> Wata absolutely slays guitar wise:
> 
> good voice too:


 

And she's smoking hot and has great taste in gear, too, IMO.






Yeah, yeah, don't objectify, bla bla bla. I'm allowed to think a chick is talented AND hot .



While on the topic of japanese metal chicks, though...




Fun band. She looks so happy!


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## I Voyager (Jul 9, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> Shouldn't matter. But I'll leave you all with this.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...g&biw=1240&bih=674&sei=0Ab3T5KCFYn88gSoxMn-Bg
> 
> Thank me later. Courtney Cox is amazing.



And to think she's going out with John Kevill from Warbringer...


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## Louis Cypher (Jul 9, 2012)

I Voyager said:


> And to think she's going out with John Kevill from Warbringer...


 
Just googled him..... how the fcuk did he pull her???.... there is no god, either that or Kevill is proof that the Devil really is coming through with his side of his new contracts....


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## USMarine75 (Jul 9, 2012)

I just bought the new In this Moment album and it's really good. Also bough the new Agonist album but haven't really given it a good listen yet...

My 2 year old loves the singer from Arch Enemy. His favorite video is "My Apocalypse". One day my nanny thought he was growling at her... and I'm like... oh yeah, that's him singing 

Oh and I had Arch Enemy albums for years and never realized the singer _was_ female!!! Same thing with The Agonist... I thought they had 2 singers like Lacuna Coil.


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## The Grief Hole (Jul 9, 2012)

Another of the heavy hitters. Not only a very brutal singer but a professional biologist.


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## Mprinsje (Jul 9, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> While on the topic of japanese metal chicks, though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




didn't know that band, sounds cool!

also, why no love for maximum the hormone?


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## edsped (Jul 9, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> Shouldn't matter. But I'll leave you all with this.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...g&biw=1240&bih=674&sei=0Ab3T5KCFYn88gSoxMn-Bg
> 
> Thank me later. Courtney Cox is amazing.


She sure does like her push-up bras.


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## groph (Jul 9, 2012)

Xaios said:


> This is the part that annoys me about some women in metal. This picture deliberately plays up the whole "OMG, I'm a cute hawt rebel metal chick!" aspect, and it's completely crass. Women seem to be afraid that, if they're not willing use their feminine wiles to market themselves, no one will pay attention to them. However, whenever I see something like this, it only serves to cast a shadow of doubt on their musical integrity, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Having said that, my favorite "woman in metal" would probably be Leilindel from the band Unexpect. She's supremely capable of both operatic cleans and harsh screams. Additionally, her vocals are used as one thread in the tapestry that is Unexpect's music, they don't focus on it simply because OMG FEMALE METAL SINGER!




Xaios, we're on good terms but I'm going to challenge this 

On the first paragraph, I'd wager a bet that it's because women are in a near 100% male dominated area of music that is pretty excessive about its "tough guy" image or some values of traditional masculinity. Metal encapsulates anger, aggression, etc (and I'm talking about the image, I know lots of individual guys who like metal aren't stereotypical manly men of masculine man-ninnity who hail from Mantopia). and women in metal have to overcompensate to be taken even the least bit seriously. Then they're subjected to the commentary of guys who can only talk about how they find said metal girls attractive or not, often with little commentary about actual talent. The "metal chicks" I'm aware of often overdo the hell out of the leather, makeup, dyed hair, spikes, straps, boots, etc. whereas all a guy has to do to look "metal" is have on a band T-shirt and jeans. 

But hey, sex does sell, but I don't think it's fair to in a sense blame women in metal for using their attractiveness to their advantage - my point is that's basically *all they can do* within this particular subculture. They're basically looked at as groupies, even the ones who are all "done up" to look "metal." The problem isn't necessarily even how they look as far as clothes go, surely women dressed "normally" or more conservatively (IE a band shirt and jeans) are still subject to the same bullshit commentary (OMGTH, a hawt girl in metulz! or She doesn't really like metal! What an attention whore!). Same thing goes for girls/women who post videos of them playing guitar/drums/whatever. Even the comments that do praise their talent or lack of it often also say "and I'd still bang her, too!" I guess at the end of the day there's a double standard.



EDIT: As far as favorite women in metal go, I don't really have any. I'm not big into metal with operatic vocals, most female-fronted bands haven't wowed me, but this is because I haven't heard that many and those I have heard I didn't care for musically in general. I suppose Linda of Warface is pretty awesome although I don't care much for the band. She's a pretty competent guitar player in death metal, though.


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## The Uncreator (Jul 9, 2012)

Sex does sell, but I cant imagine buying an album because the singer looks good. It just doesnt even seem like something anyone over 13 should do.


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## The Reverend (Jul 9, 2012)

Courtney from Unicron
Krysta from IWABO
Whoever was in Into The Silence 

I don't know how I feel about women in metal. I've been ruminating over this question for this entire thread, and a clear stance has yet to come to me. 

I generally don't think that women vocalists can handle screaming and growling as well. Outside a few examples (Cerebral Bore comes to mind) women just don't have the edge in their voices that translates to a savage, low-range roar. Without posting audio examples, it's hard to explain, but a good ear can often pick female screamers/growlers out.

As far as female musicians go, stop playing fucking bass. Why do women love the bass? I guess I'll never fucking know. This does bring me to the main point of contention I've found with the idea of women musicians in metal: I feel as if a lot of them are only mediocre, and get more attention and props _because_ of their gender. I'm not seeing Govan, Petrucci, Abasi, or even Broderick level talents here, but they're way more famous than most equally talented men. What the heck, fellas?


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## ilyti (Jul 9, 2012)

Food for thought:

It's been mentioned several times now that most women in the rock/metal scene just happen to be hot, as well as talented. More power to them! Of course, opinions are subjective, and I wouldn't call every girl posted in here "hot." But has anyone here ever heard of any women in metal that are "ugly"? Most are really good looking, others are average. I can't think of a single woman in metal I would consider "ugly". Which leads me to believe that part of any female fronted metal band's success is tied to how good looking the woman is. The lesson learned from that is, don't hire an ugly girl for your band, no matter how good she is. That's kind of unfortunate. 

Prove me wrong, folks!


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## Xaios (Jul 9, 2012)

groph said:


> Xaios, we're on good terms but I'm going to challenge this
> 
> On the first paragraph, I'd wager a bet that it's because women are in a near 100% male dominated area of music that is pretty excessive about its "tough guy" image or some values of traditional masculinity. Metal encapsulates anger, aggression, etc (and I'm talking about the image, I know lots of individual guys who like metal aren't stereotypical manly men of masculine man-ninnity who hail from Mantopia). and women in metal have to overcompensate to be taken even the least bit seriously. Then they're subjected to the commentary of guys who can only talk about how they find said metal girls attractive or not, often with little commentary about actual talent. The "metal chicks" I'm aware of often overdo the hell out of the leather, makeup, dyed hair, spikes, straps, boots, etc. whereas all a guy has to do to look "metal" is have on a band T-shirt and jeans.
> 
> But hey, sex does sell, but I don't think it's fair to in a sense blame women in metal for using their attractiveness to their advantage - my point is that's basically *all they can do* within this particular subculture. They're basically looked at as groupies, even the ones who are all "done up" to look "metal." The problem isn't necessarily even how they look as far as clothes go, surely women dressed "normally" or more conservatively (IE a band shirt and jeans) are still subject to the same bullshit commentary (OMGTH, a hawt girl in metulz! or She doesn't really like metal! What an attention whore!). Same thing goes for girls/women who post videos of them playing guitar/drums/whatever. Even the comments that do praise their talent or lack of it often also say "and I'd still bang her, too!" I guess at the end of the day there's a double standard.



Again though, it's being brought back to image. Look at this photo again:







This photo screams *TIIIITS!!!*

You're right in saying that all a guy has to do to look "metal" is to wear a band t-shirt and ripped jeans. However, they're not generally marketed based on their looks. Groups with competent musicians who write interesting music shouldn't have to partake in such banality. They can be wearing clown makeup and bear skins on stage for all I care. I doubt anyone disagrees with that particular point. The fact remains, however, that a much greater portion of metal bands featuring female members market themselves on style, rather than substance, than bands solely comprising of men, and I simply can't be arsed to care about bands that sell music that way, because they're not actually selling music.

If a band's plan is to sell records based on sex appeal, then power to them. However, don't expect me to respect them as a musicians if that's the road they take. If the music they make can't speak for itself, no quantify of breasts and cleavage on an album cover will make me any more inclined to buy their album. And the simple truth is that metal bands with female members are far more apt to do exactly that.

Maybe I'm not being realistic about "how things work in the real world, yo," but that's how I feel on the issue. The argument keeps coming back to the fact that they can't sell their music based on the traditional metal image. I counter that maybe they should focus on selling the music based on its own merits instead of an image.


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## skeels (Jul 9, 2012)

In the 80s there were tons of ugly chicks in so-called metal bands making it big...

Does anybody get where I'm going with this one?

*crickets*



Oh well... Yellow Machinegun. Best two minutes of my life.


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## highlordmugfug (Jul 9, 2012)

^^I  you.
EDIT: That's aimed at Xaios. Fuck every band who has a female member that thinks flashing me is going to get me to give a shit about them, it's the opposite.


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## artmachine (Jul 9, 2012)

So many "bands" use image or a gimmick to sell records or gain noteriety(which blows) and it's honestly kind of easy to do that with metal, so recruiting a female member is just a very easy way to do that. But claiming that all heavy bands with female members are just using her as a gimmick is totally bogus. Any band that's willing to do that would find another way to do it without a female member. Look at all the mall metal/"scene" garbage, that is 100% image/trend over music/art and those bands consist of mostly male members. Some stuff just sucks, regardless of the sex of the members of the band.

I don't think either of these bands use their female members for anything except that they're constructive members of their bands who value the music they play and create.


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## bhakan (Jul 9, 2012)

I think Aliases have the right idea. I completely forgot they had a female guitarist until they were posted in this thread. It's probably easier for them, as a female guitarist sounds no different from a male, unlike vocals, but they don't at all market based on "LOOK WE'VE GOT A GIRL IN OUR BAND."


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## Xaios (Jul 9, 2012)

artmachine said:


> So many "bands" use image or a gimmick to sell records or gain noteriety(which blows) and it's honestly kind of easy to do that with metal, so recruiting a female member is just a very easy way to do that. But claiming that all heavy bands with female members are just using her as a gimmick is totally bogus. Any band that's willing to do that would find another way to do it without a female member. Look at all the mall metal/"scene" garbage, that is 100% image/trend over music/art and those bands consist of mostly male members. Some stuff just sucks, regardless of the sex of the members of the band.



Whoa there, kemosabe. At no point in time did I claim that "all" heavy bands with female members practiced this style of marketing. I said a greater portion. And while the sceneXcore image is equally as abhorrent, that's a different matter.


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## artmachine (Jul 9, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Whoa there, kemosabe. At no point in time did I claim that "all" heavy bands with female members practiced this style of marketing. I said a greater portion. And while the sceneXcore image is equally as abhorrent, that's a different matter.


That wasn't strictly directed at you by any means and I know you didn't say "all", but a lot of the talk in this thread is definitely hinting at saying that MOST of it is gimmicky or even saying that women in heavy music have no other choice than to exploit the fact that they're women. I guess I just come from a different scene for the most part. I'm more a part of the "touring the basement/collective circuit and knowing your band is never really going to be a financial success", so I'm very opposed to any sort of gimmick/image/catch/lack of genuine passion, so I just think people are looking in the wrong places if they're finding so many gimmicky bands. Like I said, the band exploiting their female member would do that in some other way if that wasn't already their catch. I guess I just don't blame the women in these situations any more than I do the 4 other dudes in her band who probably recruited her in the first place. And I'm definitely not trying to sound pretentious or self-righteous, I mean, I even said I know the stuff I do and I'm into will never be super popular.

I guess I just think that extreme music/underground music kind of already puts you in the minority and being truly passionate about it and participating in it can sometimes make you butt heads with society/your average joe/joanne, so it's a bummer to see one minority being kind of prejudice towards another minority within that group.


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## TheFerryMan (Jul 9, 2012)

Lol. forgot about these guys.


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## Mprinsje (Jul 10, 2012)




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## Ckackley (Jul 10, 2012)

Some food for thought- The lead singer in my band dresses the way she does to be sexy, yes.. To be noticed ? Yep..
However she also does it , because it makes a lot of men really uncomfortable. She runs the band and does all the business. You ever see a typical bar promoter try to deal business with a hot, confident girl ? It's kinda funny. She also doesn't see a need to hide the fact that she's a chick behind a t-shirt. Manowar and black metal guys can wear armor and no shirt , but she can't wear a bra top ? All of the "core" bands can wear jeans three sizes too small but she gets shit for wearing a miniskirt ? C'mon now guys....


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## AxeHappy (Jul 10, 2012)

Meh, I don't think there really is a double standard per se. Just guys tend to like metal more than women. 

How many ugly, truly successful male pop start can you think of?

People like to look at beautiful people. It's pretty much that simple. 

I do not give a flying fuck about the gender of a person in a band. I listen to the music, and if I like it Yay. 

My band actually has a female singer, but we didn't look for one, we just held auditions and it turns out the best singer whom showed up happened to be female.


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## shellbound (Jul 10, 2012)




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## oddcam (Jul 11, 2012)

Xaios said:


>




This was not what I expected at all. I like it.


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## tacotiklah (Jul 11, 2012)

AxeHappy said:


> Meh, I don't think there really is a double standard per se. Just guys tend to like metal more than women.
> 
> How many ugly, truly successful male pop start can you think of?
> 
> ...



This is the way it's done, and should be done. Base judgments solely on talent and not eye candy. Dudes in extreme metal styles are ugly as hell anyways, so you'd think they'd be less prone to wanting eye candy.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 11, 2012)

Since she was mentioned earlier in the thread, just thought I'd put this here since I hung out with her tonight:








"Lzzy" Hale, myself, and Arejay. Both really cool and REALLY down to Earth. Got really smashed before and shortly after this.


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## Loomer (Jul 11, 2012)

No matter what happens, Julie Christmas or Jarboe singing a ballad will always 10000 times more terrifying than any number of screaming, sweaty dudes.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jul 11, 2012)

Doro, Runaways, Kittie, The Donna's, Within Temptation, Drain STH, Kidney Thieves, Spike 1000, We Are The Fallen..

Yes, girls can rock.


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## sage (Jul 11, 2012)

I just jammed with a band last night. Women on drums and vox. The drummer is easily in the top 5% of metal drummers in town. Super tight, lots of feel, hits really hard. The vocalist (screamer) is phenomenal. Makes most of the dudes I've jammed with recently sound wimpy and thin. I hope I get the gig.


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## Murmel (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't know whether these 2 have been mentioned already, can't be arsed to go through the entire thread.

Karin from Sonic Syndicate.









And Doris from Chthonic.



Her bass is as big as her, hilarious


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## TheSpaceforthis (Jul 12, 2012)

Gorod used to have a girl playing drums, she was insanely good.


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## tm20 (Jul 12, 2012)

som from cerebral bore


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## Djdnxgdj3983jrjd8udb3bcns (Jul 12, 2012)

First off, there's nothing wrong with women in metal, and people that disagree with that can move back to their hut in the 15th century.

Secondly, I think a large part of the problem is that, for some reason, it's such a big deal that women should show interest in the genre. It's so male-dominated, that a woman in a band is something that is unusual. The problem then is the whole "nail that sticks out gets hammered" issue. This is exacerbated when a band that isn't all that great tries to use it as a selling point.

Also, I think that you tend to find women in a much greater concentration in specific subgenres or situations. They tend to show up in places where a more melodic vocal line is the norm, or at least more common. Power metal seems to have a particularly high concentration of female vocalists.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 12, 2012)

Murmel said:


> Her bass is as big as her



 That's like the Opeth bassist. He looks like a little bass playing gnome.


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## Riggy (Jul 12, 2012)

Leah of Aliases.



Might have been posted already, but I'm starting on page 6 and working my way back.

EDIT

Aye, they've been mentioned already, derp.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 12, 2012)

^ Those 2 are NUTS!


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## Mukersman (Jul 12, 2012)

EDIT: deleted because it was a stupid question now that I actually read the thread.


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## schecter4life (Jul 14, 2012)

i had to add this video, as this is the sexiest music vid with Karin from sonic syndicate....i would like to see her with...er...uhh...other females xD just skip to 2:23 in the vid, and you will KNOW shes into it, and you KNOW she wants it xD...the MUSIC SUCKS though, its like fallout boy meets metalcore

Angela Gossow=I would give her many a night she would never forget 

although not really metal, an honorable mentioa HAS to go out to Amy Lee: DAT VOICE :O


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## CannibalKiller (Aug 2, 2012)

I'll just leave this here:


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## Dan_Vacant (Aug 2, 2012)

> Pos. Rep. to heal the hurt of hearing such a shitty band. Get well soon brah


I got this for the post about pulling up In this Moment on Youtube 
they have a good amount of songs that get stuck in my head (in a good way) but thanks.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 3, 2012)

She may have been mentioned already, but Liz Buckingham from Electric Wizard


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## toecutter (Aug 3, 2012)

I still like Anna Murphy


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## wankerness (Aug 3, 2012)

b1gm3 said:


> First off, there's nothing wrong with women in metal, and people that disagree with that can move back to their hut in the 15th century.
> 
> Secondly, I think a large part of the problem is that, for some reason, it's such a big deal that women should show interest in the genre. It's so male-dominated, that a woman in a band is something that is unusual. The problem then is the whole "nail that sticks out gets hammered" issue. This is exacerbated when a band that isn't all that great tries to use it as a selling point.
> 
> Also, I think that you tend to find women in a much greater concentration in specific subgenres or situations. They tend to show up in places where a more melodic vocal line is the norm, or at least more common. Power metal seems to have a particularly high concentration of female vocalists.



The whole nerd hand-wringing over that dude's complaining about booth girls ruining geekdom for everyone sorta reminded me of the women in metal discussions I've seen before. I feel like women in metal tend to end up pigeonholed into a few different roles cause it's so dominated by males. I did a research project on this back in like 2006 and I think my (intentionally lazy and generalizing) conclusions were that the main areas women got stuck in with metal were:

1) Girls that are just hired to look/sound pretty and have no investment in what they're doing - See: just about any all-male band with a female singer who doesn't write any of the music, especially ones where they alternate a guy growling with a chick singing, ex bands like Theatre of Tragedy or Tristania. These would probably be raged at by the boothgirl rant guy, since they're "NOT METAL," but it's not like you can blame them cause they're just doing what they were paid to do! And, they got bands attention when the rest of the band had nothing going for them. Just look at all those goth-metal bands with albums on Napalm records that had a hot chick on the cover and all sounded the same. Or, that metalcore band in this moment. 

2) Girls that actually seem into it and make some contribution to the music and catch a ton of flack from the sexists that dominate the subgenre - See: Atrox, Madder Mortem. In the case of Atrox, the singer just retreated from metal altogether basically. Madder Mortem, I get the impression she's just not phased. 

3) Girls that actually seem into it and seem to have gained some level of acceptance - Power Metal seems to be the main area where this is common, I think cause the fans tend to be more friendly dork types than the bitter nerds that like black/death metal, and girls playing princess like say the singer from Within Temptation or Nightwish or Epica are perfectly at home with all the LARPing guys. I think the chick from Arch Enemy was about the only example I could find out of the power metal genre back in 2006. Whatshername in Lacuna Coil also possibly could have fit into this category, but I think that she was mainly just accepted cause she was really hot instead of cause she was a great singer and/or really into the music, and the rest of the band still got a ton of shit for sounding like Korn.

Obviously others made different kind of contributions, like, The Gathering basically changed over time to fit Anneke's voice more and more (until she LEFT!), but it still seemed like the majority of women in metal were either a gimmick or got driven out by angry sexist nerds. Metal is a geek's land. Power metal is basically like cosplay and thus that's the only place women seem to feel comfortable. This is science. 

I think the main thing keeping women out of metal is the fact that they mostly just don't seem interested in it. Like, i've seen a lot of articles about the fact that a tiny percentage of people who want to learn electric guitar and drum set are women, and when the metal genre is based on the biggest, loudest electric guitars and drumsets possible, obviously that's going to filter them out even more. Basically every other instrument (and voice, obviously) has fairly equal gender representation. No one seems to have an explanation for it, but there it is. 

It probably is cause too many guys acted like they were jacking off while playing a guitar solo.


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## TheSpaceforthis (Aug 3, 2012)

You are wrong about Lacuna Coil, they didnt always sound like korn and Scabbia is a great singer.


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## wankerness (Aug 3, 2012)

TheSpaceforthis said:


> You are wrong about Lacuna Coil, they didnt always sound like korn and Scabbia is a great singer.



They didn't sound like Korn until Karmacode but they got made fun of plenty before that album, especially with Comalies, for being watered down metal, and for dressing up like they were in Mortal Kombat. I saw them live with Opeth back in 2005 or so and they were very competent live but were definitely all in hilarious vinyl outfits (besides Cristina Scabbia who looked like a really hot pirate). Interestingly, the main thing that I remember everyone bashing them for was the GUY singer, cause he looked like a cancerous version of Gary Oldman in Dracula and didn't sound much better except when he screamed. The first thing I heard by them was "Unleashed Memories" which had maybe 2 or 3 good songs on it but was mostly a sloggy endurance test. I quite like their self-titled EP but that's about it. She's not a very good singer, her voice is so heavily processed on the albums it's nuts. The only song I can think of offhand that had a really good vocal performance by her was that early version of Senzafine (it was on some EP before Unleashed Memories).


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## Lirtle (Aug 3, 2012)

Jill Janus fuckin holds it down in huntress. Not exactly the type of music I enjoy but her vocals are sick... plus she's super hot.


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## TheSpaceforthis (Aug 3, 2012)

wankerness said:


> They didn't sound like Korn until Karmacode but they got made fun of plenty before that album, especially with Comalies, for being watered down metal, and for dressing up like they were in Mortal Kombat. I saw them live with Opeth back in 2005 or so and they were very competent live but were definitely all in hilarious vinyl outfits (besides Cristina Scabbia who looked like a really hot pirate). Interestingly, the main thing that I remember everyone bashing them for was the GUY singer, cause he looked like a cancerous version of Gary Oldman in Dracula and didn't sound much better except when he screamed. The first thing I heard by them was "Unleashed Memories" which had maybe 2 or 3 good songs on it but was mostly a sloggy endurance test. I quite like their self-titled EP but that's about it. She's not a very good singer, her voice is so heavily processed on the albums it's nuts. The only song I can think of offhand that had a really good vocal performance by her was that early version of Senzafine (it was on some EP before Unleashed Memories).


 

Oh well, I like Comalies and its true that Unleashed Memories only has 2 or 3 good songs but they are really good. Ive heard her live and I love her voice... I may be biased cause when she sings the italian lyrics in Senzafine she melts my soul and makes me feel all funny inside.
I do know other singers like Anneke are much better than her tho.


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## soliloquy (Aug 3, 2012)

i personally dont care. but i do get annoyed by the symphonic/gothic metal that most females in metal are shoved in.

aside from that, two of my all time favorites are:
Anneke van Giersbergen of The Gathering, Agua de anique, anneke, and random stuff with Devin Townsend. shes actually my favorite female vocalist of all time







and second being Melissa Ferlaak. as far as i know, she is the only female vocalist that is the only fully university graduated, and thus, university trained female vocalist in metal. i could be wrong though.


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## naw38 (Aug 4, 2012)

Damnit wankerness, I went through this whole topic thinking I'd be the first to mention Madder Mortem. I love her vocals, and her lyrics, she's one of the few female vocalists I like in metal. Most either just sound like pop starlets with heavy guitars in the background, which to my ears, doesn't work, or scream and growl, a style that I only enjoy for certain bands. 

On the toic of image and marketing, Misha answered a question on formspring recently that I think is relevant. A guy asked him something like, "why do you only ever look angry or sullen in band photos?" to which he responded "those are the photos editors or photographers choose to publish". I don't think you can necesarilly always blame the band for how they're marketed.


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## wankerness (Aug 5, 2012)

naw38 said:


> Damnit wankerness, I went through this whole topic thinking I'd be the first to mention Madder Mortem. I love her vocals, and her lyrics, she's one of the few female vocalists I like in metal. Most either just sound like pop starlets with heavy guitars in the background, which to my ears, doesn't work, or scream and growl, a style that I only enjoy for certain bands.
> 
> On the toic of image and marketing, Misha answered a question on formspring recently that I think is relevant. A guy asked him something like, "why do you only ever look angry or sullen in band photos?" to which he responded "those are the photos editors or photographers choose to publish". I don't think you can necesarilly always blame the band for how they're marketed.



That doesn't surprise me, though as I was reading your post I was expecting her answer was going to be "hey, you try being a woman in a metal band and see how long before you stop smiling!" I've seen a lot of morons dismiss the band cause THE SINGER IS FAT LOL though obviously no one cares what the male singers of bands look like in metal so I don't really get it. 

I think she's a really great singer, her style is really weird and creepy. It's too bad the rest of the band isn't on the same level. A lot of their songs have really great vocal performances but then the rest of the band is just playing a bunch of powerchords on a 7 string and stick to 8th notes for the entire song and bleh.

Some other band I saw mentioned on here at some point was Obscure Sphinx, who sound kinda like neurosis with 8 strings and a singer that sounds kinda like the one from Madder Mortem (only she screams a fair amount). I like them quite a bit, unfortunately as far as I know they only have an EP out so far. Both tracks are on their myspace page.

Obscure Sphinx | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos


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## Azathoth43 (Aug 5, 2012)

schecter4life said:


> i had to add this video, as this is the sexiest music vid with Karin from sonic syndicate....i would like to see her with...er...uhh...other females xD just skip to 2:23 in the vid, and you will KNOW shes into it, and you KNOW she wants it xD...the MUSIC SUCKS though, its like fallout boy meets metalcore




You know she's a serious musician from the way she keeps her bass _just_ high enough to pick the top string with her arm at full extension.


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## Seanthesheep (Aug 5, 2012)

Lololol cerebral bore


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## F4R537KTP09 (Aug 5, 2012)

Male... Female... Old... Young... Fat or not... Whatever religion, whatever country or skin color... I don't give a sh*t.
I want to hear some f**ing noise!!!


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## larry (Aug 5, 2012)

the painful thing about women in metal,
is that: i have this perception that i will 
get along better in a relationship with a
metal chick, because among other things,
we would also have metal in common.

at the same time though, there's no telling
what she'll be like. and deep down, i know
whomever she is will be just as crazy as
the other's i've dated. i've picked
some 'interrupted' girls. for some reason, the
'crazy' doesn't spring up until a year
or two later . at this point i think i have
a problem 'pickin em', cuz i'm battin' a
thousand so far.

but yeah, sorry for the slight derail.
i think there should be more women 
in metal. why not?


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## TaylorMacPhail (Aug 6, 2012)

I see more and more girls/woman not only getting into the whole metal scene but actually participating in/starting up bands, and I think it's great. 

Though I DO foresee a future of feminist-core... lol jk


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## soliloquy (Aug 7, 2012)

TaylorMacPhail said:


> I see more and more girls/woman not only getting into the whole metal scene but actually participating in/starting up bands, and I think it's great.
> 
> Though I DO foresee a future of feminist-core... lol jk




at 'feminist-core' i got a weird picture in my head of the 'crab-core-squat' move and see tampons dropping all over...


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## TheGrimRiffer (Aug 7, 2012)

soliloquy said:


> at 'feminist-core' i got a weird picture in my head of the 'crab-core-squat' move and see tampons dropping all over...



That's kinda fucked up bro.


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## mcleanab (Aug 7, 2012)

Some old school FEAR OF GOD... "Within the Veil" was an awesome album... Dawn Crosby was a bit on the edge...

This one scared me a little bit way back when... never heard anything like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NFzSqvNPig

The lyrics in this one were just unreal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSYpzRsFd5I&feature=related

Not metal, but it'll do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3_xn15YEkE


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## soliloquy (Aug 7, 2012)

TheGrimRiffer said:


> That's kinda fucked up bro.



indeed, feminazis are fucked up


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## TheGrimRiffer (Aug 7, 2012)

soliloquy said:


> indeed, feminazis are fucked up



You know when I read your original post I was trying to decide whether it actually was sexist or just a reference to the infamous "eat my used tampon" incident by the band L7. But now I can see it probably was the former.

From wikipedia: *Feminism* is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-1 In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A *feminist* is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women".

I don't have a clue why 90% of guys equate the word "feminism" with some kind of female chauvinism when it's the exact opposite. Advocating equal rights and opportunities for a group of people doesn't make one a Nazi, it makes one the _opposite_ of a Nazi! I think a lot of people's exposure to feminism is actually only through the word "feminazi" as popularized by Rush Limbaugh; as a political buzzword that immediately silences any real debate about a subject. It's like calling someone an "anarchist" in the U.S., which is actually a legit political philosophy but because the word has taken on all kinds of associations with craziness and extremism through its popular usage, debate is silenced automatically upon its utterance. 

tl;dr A feminist is someone who advocates women's equality, not a female chauvinist. 

I'm a guy by the way. I just happen to think that social justice is a good thing.


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## Danukenator (Aug 7, 2012)

In general I don't mind girls and metal mixed. That said, I usually don't enjoy female metal vocals more than guys.


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## soliloquy (Aug 7, 2012)

TheGrimRiffer said:


> You know when I read your original post I was trying to decide whether it actually was sexist or just a reference to the infamous "eat my used tampon" incident by the band L7. But now I can see it probably was the former.
> 
> From wikipedia: *Feminism* is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism#cite_note-1 In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A *feminist* is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women".
> 
> ...



i was merely joking, and i too was talking about the L7 incident as well. i consider myself as a feminist as well...however, when i say 'feminazi' i'm referring to small group of feminists that skew the idea a lil too far and start arguing with bonafied reasons for inequality. reasons such as why they call them 'firemen' and not 'fire people' or what not. the bonafied reason is 'if you can easily lift someone who is around 300lbs out of a burning house, then you can join the force, regardless of your gender.' feminazis have an issue with that saying they can drag the same weight out of a burning building. and i'm not making that up either as i've seen ridiculous protests regarding issues like that. 

at the same time, i know of a handful of the said 'feminazis' who really are just men-bashing morons who would say 'ghandi has a penis, therefore he is not nice! anyone who has a penis should die' which goes hand in hand with the 'penis-envy' theory. 

therefore, feminazis do exist and we should acknowledged their existence as well, regardless of how insane their claims are.


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## Sepultorture (Aug 7, 2012)

first off that lass in The Commander in chief, god damn, gorgeous raven hair ladies and 7 string together in one pic makes for jaw on the floor action, nothing hotter than that pic

also i'd like to add, CEREBRAL BORE, their singer is a girl, she joined when she was 18 and can belt out male level low end growls and hang with any man in the death metal genre any day, and i say right the fuck on for it, women deserve it

and as for ladies dressed up METAL, theres metal and then theres hot/slutty looking metal, they all have their place, i like both.


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## Loomer (Aug 8, 2012)

TheGrimRiffer said:


> I don't have a clue why 90% of guys equate the word "feminism" with some kind of female chauvinism when it's the exact opposite.



Because psychopathic man-hating idiots like that are 10000 times better at getting their voices heard, via yelling louder and being more outrageous, ie. more easily noticed.


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## wankerness (Aug 8, 2012)

Cerebral Bore? A band named themselves after Turok 2? Jesus. 

I'll have to check them out.


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## edsped (Aug 8, 2012)

TheGrimRiffer said:


> You know when I read your original post I was trying to decide whether it actually was sexist or just a reference to the infamous "eat my used tampon" incident by the band L7. But now I can see it probably was the former.
> 
> From wikipedia: *Feminism* is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A *feminist* is "an advocate or supporter of the rights and equality of women".
> 
> ...


I think he was just making a joke, dude.


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## Syriel (Aug 8, 2012)

Nothing against this, I actually like it, altho I'm one that actually wants to keep the Growl / Screams on the guys and have the girls do the cleans. I'm not a fan of female Growls / Screams, bar a few which really seem excel at it. Although maybe I'm just thrown off when I watch a new band's music video with a female front, and the 1st thing she does is growl.


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## highlordmugfug (Aug 8, 2012)

soliloquy said:


> i was merely joking, and i too was talking about the L7 incident as well. i consider myself as a feminist as well...however, when i say 'feminazi' i'm referring to small group of feminists that skew the idea a lil too far and start arguing with bonafied reasons for inequality. reasons such as why they call them 'firemen' and not 'fire people' or what not. the bonafied reason is 'if you can easily lift someone who is around 300lbs out of a burning house, then you can join the force, regardless of your gender.' feminazis have an issue with that saying they can drag the same weight out of a burning building. and i'm not making that up either as i've seen ridiculous protests regarding issues like that.
> 
> at the same time, i know of a handful of the said 'feminazis' who really are just men-bashing morons who would say 'ghandi has a penis, therefore he is not nice! anyone who has a penis should die' which goes hand in hand with the 'penis-envy' theory.
> 
> therefore, feminazis do exist and we should acknowledged their existence as well, regardless of how insane their claims are.


Glad you defended it, because I like you and never pictured you as a misogynist in the least.


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## tm20 (Aug 8, 2012)

wankerness said:


> Cerebral Bore? A band named themselves after Turok 2? Jesus.
> 
> I'll have to check them out.



best weapon in the game


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## TheSpaceforthis (Aug 8, 2012)

Nita Strauss kicks ass in her new band Consume The Fire


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## dethFNmetal (Aug 8, 2012)

all i know is that there are some pretty fine metal loving chicks. and no black veiled brides does NOT count as metal!!!!!!!


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## the hittmann (Aug 8, 2012)

dethFNmetal said:


> all i know is that there are some pretty fine metal loving chicks. and no black veiled brides does NOT count as metal!!!!!!!


Bvb doesn't consider themselves metal anyway


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## SkapocalypseNow (Aug 8, 2012)

dethFNmetal said:


> all i know is that there are some pretty fine metal loving chicks. and no black veiled brides does NOT count as metal!!!!!!!


No one said they did, but they COULD arguably pass as women.


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## skeels (Aug 9, 2012)

Being an anarchist is a political philosophy?


Oh, the irony!


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## dethFNmetal (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not saying the band is saying they're metal, I'm saying all their girlie fans want to think so.


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## dethFNmetal (Aug 9, 2012)

Actually do a quick search and bvb's come up as many things. Metal, hard rock, metalcore, post hardcore. So technically they consider themselves metal.


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## JeffFromMtl (Aug 9, 2012)

I wish this band still existed. Vicious vocals. I think one or two of these guys play in The Chariot now.


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## blaaargh (Aug 9, 2012)

She's already been mentioned a couple times, but Julie Xmas is (imo) one of the best vocalists in heavy music. CT's vocals in Rwake are pretty terrifying, as are Runhild Gammelsaeter's in Thorr's Hammer. Her work in Khlyst is awesome as well, if you can stomach really bizarre noise/drone music. Laura Pleasants of Kylesa has some excellent chops, as does Samantha Escarbe of Virgin Black (she plays all the guitar for the band, as well as cello). The Angelic Process was a fantastic drone/ambient duo composed of one male and one female (who I think were married/life partners? not sure though). Anna Murphy of Eluveitie is quite talented with the folk instruments, as is Kate Hamilton of My Silent Wake. I saw an all-female drone duo called Taurus open for Agalloch last week, and they were fantastic. There's plenty more, those are just some off the top of my head.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm bumping this thread, because I just found this video and I can't believe she is drumming this shit in heels. Holy fuck that takes skill!


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## tm20 (Oct 16, 2012)

Iraq black metal, anti islamic band with female vocalist. I'm not a black metal fan but I can't deny the metalness of this badass lady. she covers her face when they perform (no shit) but still, it takes balls to do such a thing, considering how serious religion is taken in the middle east O_O


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 16, 2012)

It's kind of apalling to see how much sexism there is in the metal scene. Women are seen first as a pair of breasts, a pair of legs, a pretty face and that relativizes whether they are talented or not.


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## Felvin (Oct 16, 2012)

After reading much (not all) of this thread I think it's not easy for girls in Metal. They not only have to be good musicians, they also have to look pretty to be respected. But not too pretty, because then they're suddenly nothing more than just that and the band only sells records because theres a hot chick with them.

Besides that... at the moment I'm listening to Devin Townsends 'By a Thread' a lot and I love Annekes voice. And yes... she's hot.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 16, 2012)

Felvin said:


> After reading much (not all) of this thread I think it's not easy for girls in Metal. *They not only have to be good musicians, they also have to look pretty to be respected*. But not too pretty, because then they're suddenly nothing more than just that and the band only sells records because theres a hot chick with them.
> 
> Besides that... at the moment I'm listening to Devin Townsends 'By a Thread' a lot and I love Annekes voice. And yes... she's hot.



Let me rephrase that: They need not be good musicians in order to be respected. Many female guitarists are, objectively speaking, overrated. It's because they are attractive. No one would give a damn about Courtney Cox if she had small boobs and a normal face (average, plain Jane).


----------



## Felvin (Oct 16, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Let me rephrase that: They need not be good musicians in order to be respected. Many female guitarists are, objectively speaking, overrated. It's because they are attractive. No one would give a damn about Courtney Cox if she had small boobs and a normal face (average, plain Jane).



You're right. What I wanted to say is that a lot of girls just don't have a chance as long as they're not pretty.


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## ShadowAMD (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to sound robotic on the subject, you can't run away from the fact females have a different sounding voicebox. 

It's a tool that fit's specific songs, just like a male voice box. Metal is pre-dominent in sound from the way it was derived through the ages, pop music had female singers for many decades. Metal hasn't, so its a difficult transition. 

There are pro's and cons to male and female voices, female voices tend to sound sweeter whilst metal seems to veer in the direction of more aggressive and deep. Whilst I have a soft spot for bands like lacuna coil....


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## Jakke (Oct 16, 2012)

I do not understand this thread... Why would someone have an "opinion" on women in metal? It's not like horses in the airforce or badgers as chefs


IMO, misogynist is thrown out far too much in the public forum. This is because it is, as with calling someone a racist, an effective way of silencing dissent. Men has been taught from a very early age that you do not hit girls. If someone is then labeled a misogynist, men around will also close in on the unfortunate individual and tear him to shreds, this is because they have been taught to be nice to girls, and therefore react with a gut-reaction.
Third wave feminism has strayed far from the mark long time ago, and I am therefore glad to no longer call myself a feminist. I am now "of course I am for equality!", it's a lot longer to say, but it's heck of a lot more honest



Anyway, not too keen on the whole clean female singing, I guess I have been burnt out on all the cheesy goth type bands who always has an androgynous guy on guitar or bass and a female singer. There are excellent female musicians, and although not strictly metal, I do not think anyone has done more for female musicians that Joan Jet.


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## ShadowAMD (Oct 16, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I do not understand this thread... Why would someone have an "opinion" on women in metal? It's not like horses in the airforce or badgers as chefs
> 
> 
> IMO, misogynist is thrown out far too much in the public forum. This is because it is, as with calling someone a racist, an effective way of silencing dissent. Men has been taught from a very early age that you do not hit girls. If someone is then labeled a misogynist, men around will also close in on the unfortunate individual and tear him to shreds, this is because they have been taught to be nice to girls, and therefore react with a gut-reaction.
> ...



It doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me, in fact I encourage anything that we can share interests in. Also cheesy goth bands male and female don't sound good to me.. You never know, gaming was once predominantly male, now there are a lot of female gamers.. I hope metal follows suit..


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## Jakke (Oct 16, 2012)




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## Idontpersonally (Mar 11, 2013)

Loxodrome said:


> Anyone got some opinions on Females in the music industry. And women In Metal? And also Bands with Women in them  I know a couple, But its always nice to spread knowledge.



I only play for women. Heres a few.
Rachel aspe











paz apc


Theresa Warpaint. I dont even...










Jinx coven the queen and godmother of metal


Nicole eyerahaze




https://soundcloud.com/eyerahaze/sets/eye-ra-haze



Stefania Stake off the witch


----------



## Loomer (Mar 12, 2013)

^^^^

Why do I get the distinct feeling you COMPLETELY misunderstood the thread?!


----------



## Loomer (Mar 12, 2013)

skeels said:


> Being an anarchist is a political philosophy?
> 
> 
> Oh, the irony!



I find it intensely amusing that you don't quite know how irony works or what anarchism actually is, which is ironically sort of ironic in and of itself but mostly just sad and a little bit worrying.


----------



## Idontpersonally (Mar 12, 2013)

Loxodrome said:


> Women and metal? What is your opinion on women who are in metal? Are you a person who thinks everything is gender Specific? OR the opposite and think Metal is a place for men?





Loomer said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Why do I get the distinct feeling you COMPLETELY misunderstood the thread?!



Idk, whats wrong with those bands......of course i support female bands those were just a few of my favorites i hadnt seen listed yet.


----------



## Loomer (Mar 12, 2013)

Idontpersonally said:


> Idk, whats wrong with those bands......



Nothing, I guess. Definitely nothing wrong with Coven, ever, but honestly.. Was the gratuitous booty-and-bikini shots really necessary? Doesn't that seem a tiny bit more part of the problem discussed in this thread than part of the solution? 
With the absence of any real text and the seriously cryptic "I Only play for women" to start it off, it's pretty easy to misconstrue (or just construe) your post as another one of those "I think these bishes are fiiiiine"-posts.


----------



## Idontpersonally (Mar 12, 2013)

Loomer said:


> Nothing, I guess. Definitely nothing wrong with Coven, ever, but honestly.. Was the gratuitous booty-and-bikini shots really necessary? Doesn't that seem a tiny bit more part of the problem discussed in this thread than part of the solution?
> With the absence of any real text and the seriously cryptic "I Only play for women" to start it off, it's pretty easy to misconstrue (or just construe) your post as another one of those "I think these bishes are fiiiiine"-posts.



Yea I know what you mean, I figured some of the pics could be taken the wrong way, but at the same time they really are some of my favorite bands, I really am motivated more by female players than men, and i only skimmed the thread but have seen the issue of ' the females objectified' on other threads and it seems like the men are more concerned with that issue than the women themselves. The bikini pics were from stake of the witches own band page posted by them for us to see. Jinx has pics on her fb that i thought would be a little much to post here and I didnt even notice natasha [ERH] was spread eagle in the band shot until you mentioned.
Basically what im getting at is if you think a female player is hot you should be able to say it without feeling like a sexist or perv or something. I think it'd more counter intuitive if we didnt allow women to embrace their sexuality the way they want to than if we expect them to be disturbed by acknowledging the fact they can be sexy and serious about their music at the same time.

Did you check out warpaints elephants? That video speaks volumes of what im trying to say. I was hoping that would explain the rest of the pics before they went misconstrued, but i edited for you anyway*shrug*



This one sends the same kind of message about being comfortable with openly expressing their sexuality through their lyrics and videos. I think its meant to challenge us [kind of what i was going for] rather than objectify themselves which is why they're my favorite all female band hands down. To say they approach the problem you speak of 'with grace and beauty' is an understatement. I cant put into words the feelings they evoke with their music. Superficiality isnt the case every time imho.


----------



## troyguitar (Mar 12, 2013)

Felvin said:


> You're right. What I wanted to say is that a lot of girls just don't have a chance as long as they're not pretty.



You mean to say that if they are not hot then they have the same chance as the rest of us. Your chance to "make it" as a dude is about the same as a fat ugly chick. 

Any moderately OK looking chick gets a huge advantage over the other 3/4 of the population.


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## celticelk (Mar 12, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> You mean to say that if they are not hot then they have the same chance as the rest of us. Your chance to "make it" as a dude is about the same as a fat ugly chick.
> 
> Any moderately OK looking chick gets a huge advantage over the other 3/4 of the population.



I'd argue that a "fat ugly chick" has much less chance to "make it" than a "dude" of any arbitrary hotness, since the *expectation* is that women should be good-looking *as well as* musically talented, an expectation that manifestly does not apply to men.


----------



## engage757 (Mar 12, 2013)

Here is my wife:
Rachel La Voix D&#39;Homme - Incroyable Talent 2012 - YouTube


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## skeels (Mar 13, 2013)

Loomer said:


> I find it intensely amusing that you don't quite know how irony works or what anarchism actually is, which is ironically sort of ironic in and of itself but mostly just sad and a little bit worrying.





Oh, the ennui.....


----------



## JohnIce (Mar 13, 2013)

This thread makes me sad. Appreciation of women from a sexual viewpoint is one thing, but a lot of these posts are just plain chauvinism.

I think the problem for women in metal has similarities with being a dark-skinned in a country of white people: No matter how much you pay your dues there will still be people questioning your motives, your legitimacy and thoughtlessly throwing out slurs and hurtful words towards you and your "group". Usually out of ignorance and insecurity. You're thought of as a group, with all the prejudices associated with that group, instead of as an individual.

When the discussion about women in metal immediately turns into pictures of asses and boobs, there's no fucking wonder girls don't want to get into it. For men, rock and metal has always been a confidence-booster, it sparked the idea that a zit-faced scrawny guy with bad teeth could be a sex god if he joined a rock band. But for women, the message is the opposite: You're not welcome unless you have great tits and show your ass in short skirts (the ass of course has to look great). And even then, you will be assumed talentless. You will have to be 10x better than your male colleagues in order to be considered AS good as them. 

So many people bag on Orianthi for not being as good as Vai or Satriani but no-one bags on the millions of men in popular bands who don't play as good as Orianthi. Just because she's a girl, she has to be scrutinized and all her flaws need to be pointed out and we should all be offended by her for not being perfect.

Ugh.


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## troyguitar (Mar 13, 2013)

celticelk said:


> I'd argue that a "fat ugly chick" has much less chance to "make it" than a "dude" of any arbitrary hotness, since the *expectation* is that women should be good-looking *as well as* musically talented, an expectation that manifestly does not apply to men.


 
I don't know, I can only think of 1 really great female guitarist in rock/metal and she made it pretty well without being particularly hot:
















Granted she was always at least skinny in the 80's, but that expectation is mostly there for men too - with exceptions made for Meat Loaf and some relatively underground metal dudes.


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 13, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> I don't know, I can only think of 1 really great female guitarist in rock/metal and she made it pretty well without being particularly hot



I think she "made it" coz she is a fucking great guitarist.... and you seem to have missed the point from the post above.... I agree with JohnIce, a lot of the posts in this thread are sad to read from people I would consider peers as guitarist.... 

Tbh why is this thread still active? Can a Mod not close it for being a pointless and stupid thread?


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> So many people bag on Orianthi for not being as good as Vai or Satriani but no-one bags on the millions of men in popular bands who don't play as good as Orianthi. Just because she's a girl, she has to be scrutinized and all her flaws need to be pointed out and we should all be offended by her for not being perfect.
> 
> Ugh.



I think you're getting people's arguments wrong. 

1. Every musician is ragged on. Malmsteen has no feeling, Satriani is sloppy, Bulb can't play because he's made of glass and doesn't have hands

2. Nobody would praise a guitarist at Orianthi's level the way people are if it were a homely-looking girl or a dude. Certainly not to the point of playing with Vai and Satriani on stage.

What people don't like about Orianthi is the thing that many people don't like about these "girl guitarists", in that they're getting preferential treatment - by huge acts like Alice Cooper, too - for being good-looking women. It has nothing to do with them being girls, it's that they're being pushed because of who they are and not what they do, the same thing that upsets most people about women's representation in rock.

It's why everybody hates Daisy Rock Guitars, because they're basically perpetuating this idea that women can't be taken seriously in rock and metal, so let's make this other, seperate place where they can play, _just _for them, and make it all pink and flowery, because that's what women need. A pink and flowery place to play rock and metal.

F that, says I. Rock and metal should never be about looks, gender, race or whatever. Everybody's the same, it's all about the music and only the music.


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 13, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Tbh why is this thread still active? Can a Mod not close it for being a pointless and stupid thread?



Not with out a proper moment of silence and my point proven once again, and I quote "wear what we want to wear"....


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 13, 2013)

coreysMonster said:


> What people don't like about Orianthi is the thing that many people don't like about these "girl guitarists", in that they're getting preferential treatment - by huge acts like Alice Cooper, too - for being good-looking women. It has nothing to do with them being girls, it's that they're being pushed because of who they are and not what they do, the same thing that upsets most people about women's representation in rock.





coreysMonster said:


> Rock and metal should never be about looks, gender, race or whatever. Everybody's the same, it's all about the music and only the music.



Is it just me or have you contradicted yourself there???  
Not sure what your actually trying to say dude? "Girl Guitarists" get preferential treatment?? But then metal is for everyone coz its just bout the music........

Edit: Sorry for the edit, but to add as well to somethign else in your "argument", in that ALL musicians get "ragged on" & should therefore put up with it, Malmsteen or Vai or Misha don;t get "ragged on" for being male, or blonde, or good looking, or ugly or their stage clothes.... Non one has a problme with people commenting on anyone's feel or tone or technique.... there's an issue when you are saying some one is undeserving or no good JUST coz they are female.....


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

Louis Cypher said:


> Is it just me or have you contradicted yourself there???
> Not sure what your actually trying to say dude? "Girl Guitarists" get preferential treatment?? But then metal is for everyone coz its just bout the music........


I'm saying attractive female guitarists get attention and are pushed, not for being guitarists, but for being attractive.

I don't like marketing of a non-visual medium focussing on the visual aspect of the musician, I guess is the ultimate point.



Louis Cypher said:


> Edit: Sorry for the edit, but to add as well to somethign else in your "argument", in that ALL musicians get "ragged on" & should therefore put up with it, Malmsteen or Vai or Misha don;t get "ragged on" for being male, or blonde, or good looking, or ugly or their stage clothes.... Non one has a problme with people commenting on anyone's feel or tone or technique.... there's an issue when you are saying some one is undeserving or no good JUST coz they are female.....


Well, fat guys get a lot of flack as well.

But I completely agree, and it wasn't the point I was making at all. I'm saying that people _don't_ see her as undeserving for being a girl, it's for not playing as well as others. People claim her looks and gender as _reasons _for getting the additional attention, that seems out of place based on her skill.


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 13, 2013)

coreysMonster said:


> But I completely agree, and it wasn't the point I was making at all. I'm saying that people _don't_ see her as undeserving for being a girl, it's for not playing as well as others. People claim her looks and gender as _reasons _for getting the additional attention, that seems out of place based on her skill.



Removed my post after reading above


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

Yes, I realise that it's a very idealistic way of thinking, and of course marketers are going to do that, it's just one of the many pet peeves I have with marketing as a whole. I'm still clinging onto that stupid youthful thought that "It's all about the music, man!" 

Sadly, we all know that's not the case.


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## redstone (Mar 13, 2013)

Girls guitarists getting preferential treatment is just an attempt to give them satisfaction in such a way that they stop to improve and cannot compete with the best males. It's ok little girl, you run super fast, stop trying to run faster now.... I'll give you money and fame.


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 13, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> When the discussion about women in metal immediately turns into pictures of asses and boobs, there's no fucking wonder girls don't want to get into it.
> 
> Ugh.


"I'm going to stop making music because of a comment about my boobs on my public video"- said no female musician ever.


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## BBird (Mar 13, 2013)

To every thread praising her there are about 12 topics on the interwebs, saying that Orianthi is overrated and there are millions of men that are better players than she is without half the recognition. Overrated at such low level? She has to be pretty bad.

Now, I am biased as heck as I am a fan of Coops and have been one for a long time. But I have also played guitar since the mid 70s and I don't see it. I am willing to listen (read) and learn the wisdom and I promise to be constructive, but please tell me.

People used to whine that she is all blues and tone and no technique. Anyone can do that with good equipment, let's see her play three times that many notes, people said. That was at the time of her first album and when she first appeared on NAMM etc. Go check the youtube clips on that and read the comments. Awesome tone and feel and funny comments taken in the context of what people say is wrong with her today.

Then people started to whine about her tone on flicks taken live on some festivals or worse yet on some random recordings on god knows what equipment. Suddenly she was all quickness and no feel and tone etc. Go figure. This went on until she went with Jackson. 

Then people started to complain that she was lackluster on "This is it" - on the rehearsals mostly to get the show down including the coreography etc. she was suddenly required to play like she was sitting down on her own bedroom while listening to where she should be walking towards. And people still go on and on about the Beat It solo - clip that she played for the same interview for god knows how many times before they actually remembered to tape it. She even says "oh, ok I can play it AGAIN" in the beginning. And people say she is sloppy. But hey - no mercy, right.

Personal favorite of mine however is how people are now complaining about the fact that she hasn't chosen her own style instead of playing with Stewart, Coops, Bolton etc and even recording wildly different stuff and doing all of it great. People are saying she has no style of her own - practically the excuse now is that she is too versatile. But hell what does Michael Bolton know about guitar, right?

Not one expert moaning about her has ever explained to the humble old me what exactly is wrong with her playing to warrant such a terrible reputation amongst some but not all guitar communities in the internet.

I would urge her to use her little finger more on her fret hand and there is something that I can't quite put my hand on on her picking - but the results are there. I think she should tone down her effects back to where she used to be to get more clarity on her phrasing and softer tone, too. But those are very minor things and compared to her strengths. So there must be other things that are very wrong as well and I just can't spot them.

She is fast and accurate, she can play a hell of a lot of completely different styles and nail them all switching from AC on one night to Dave Stewart on another - which alone is a great attribute for a player. She has pretty nice sound on her new album that is just out although not many of the songs are that much to my liking. Her sound with AC is excellent. I freely admit that the last album was full of crap. She just simply makes Coop sound better and younger and meaner on stage, and he was not bad to begin with. She is one of the very best if not the best stage ax-man I have ever seen Alice tour with. Seen her three times now live with him and Alice for 46 times over the years. Have they all been so damn bad before her, because you know, there have been some big names there.

But what does make her so unworthy?

Don't give me the crap about boobs, because she doesn't have a pair. Don't give me the crap about looks because she is very plain. Don't give me ANY crap about showing her ass off, because she wears more clothes than the rest of the band put together. Just tell me:

What exactly is it that makes her so bad that she is seemingly the most hated guitar player in the world?

Because right now I am saying it's excuse made up by guys like me who couldn't make it. Excuses that girls get preferential treatment. Sure they do to a point, but that point is miles behind her.

And it is not her fault. She is a damn good player and all I can do is laugh when her name is brought up and people say oh yeah overrated but lita ford joan jett nancy wilson etc. Or better yet this random girl or guy on the youtube in his own bedroom.

What is wrong with her playing? Please.


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## BBird (Mar 13, 2013)

Damn that stretched to a wall of text. Apologies for that. A bit of ranting is good for the soul at times though.


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## troyguitar (Mar 13, 2013)

What's wrong? She's better known than Guthrie Govan who is better than her in EVERY way, better at EVERY technique and EVERY style of music. Same thing with literally hundreds of random session guitarists.

She's not terrible, she's just not great. She is a good player. Nothing more.


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## BBird (Mar 13, 2013)

First of all, that can be said about all (or arguably almost all) touring rock guitar players right now, so why is she singled out? Why not go into every Slash thread or hell - every EVH thread - to say how there are millions of better players than they are and they are thus crap?

Secondly, I am still missing points about what exactly is wrong in her playing.

EDIT: Also, I do agree with you that she is not great. I would say there are hundreds of players that are better than her. But that is not what is said about her, is it? What is said is that she is terribly overrated and nothing special etc. Let's put it this way - she is far from being the least worthy cover of Guitar World in the past 12 months. I am completely all right with people not singing her praises, she is not that good. What I take exception is the fact that she is constantly called crap.

Take a look and you see that it has now gone so far that when people talk about her sig PRS they have to mention that "I don't particularly like her, but.." Even Ace Frehley doesn't get that much crap and hell. She is no Ace.


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## celticelk (Mar 13, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> What's wrong? She's better known than Guthrie Govan who is better than her in EVERY way, better at EVERY technique and EVERY style of music. Same thing with literally hundreds of random session guitarists.
> 
> She's not terrible, she's just not great. She is a good player. Nothing more.



But nobody ever bags on Buzz Osborne, who freely admits that just about everyone who works in a guitar store in the US plays "better" guitar than he does. Double standard?


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## troyguitar (Mar 13, 2013)

Regular people bagging on her is just a reaction to the gigs and praise she gets by bigger names. She's no Steve Vai, yet she gets gigs that would normally require his level of talent. Why do you think that is?


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## BBird (Mar 13, 2013)

I think you may be too broad in your statement. Not many - any? - gigs require Steve Vai level talent. When you tone the statement down, it loses its meaning.

She has the gigs for Dave Stewart and Michael Bolton right now. As well as her "day job" with Alice.

Stewart seems to have a thing for ladies as she has Tali on bass and some insanely talented vocalists like Joss Stone, at least seemingly all of whom are female. That one doesn't require Vai like talent, but I would say it supports your argument and I would say her gender played a major role on that gig. She did a damn fine job in Girl in a catsuit making it by far the best song on his last record, though. Why count it against her?

Michael Bolton - hmm. That is harder to explain. She does not feature on the ads and generally it doesn't fit the theory she is only hired for marketing. That and she really plays well for him. Again no Vai required, but I would say it is unfair to assume she got the gig for anything other than her playing. She seems to work hard on her networking and it seems to get her gigs. Same with men. She did play Steve Hunter for example and he is a damn fine session player. She is a good player, good player that works hard and gets lucky gets gigs. It's not her fault on the contrary.

Alice Cooper. I would say she got it by hard work. It's hard to admit for some, but that's what I thought back in the day, and I had no idea who she was. The main contributor to this was the American Idol gig that she just happened to be on a few years ago. She happened to be in there because she was working her ass off, making her career, like she is doing now as well. The fact that Cooper was there on the same evening though was beyond lucky for her. However, she delivered and a year or so later got the gig. And she has been nothing short of excellent, make no mistake. She did have a slow start adapting to the theatrics, but last autumn she was insanely good on stage. To count this against her is just completely false. She is the best guitar player (and with Glen the best player period) on the band since years. Completely deserved by hard work and then completely nailed when she got it and thus a gig that should earn her praise, not crap.

Again however, I must also agree with you. The praise that she got when she was young from Santana and later on from Vai was just completely over the top. It annoys me too, and I will give the point on that for you. Again however, that was not her fault. A lover of guitar playing would point out that yea that was much too much, but hey - she's damn good nonetheless - instead of putting her down like some parasite. She loves the instrument, treats it and other players with utmost respect and is a nice girl. She just doesn't deserve the hate, in my opinion.

One more thing I'd like to add and then I promise I try to calm down and shut up for a while: She is compared to Vai unfairly by some - granted. However she is also compared to Lita Ford. I'd say there is much more difference between Ford and Ori than Ori and Vai, from guitar playing perspective. Like I said, I don't think she is the next jesus of strings. But why is it so hard to respect her as a damn good professional musician? Why in her case it is so black or white, when (and see how I am trying to get back on topic here..  ) with men it is all about shades of grey?


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## celticelk (Mar 13, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> Regular people bagging on her is just a reaction to the gigs and praise she gets by bigger names. She's no Steve Vai, yet she gets gigs that would normally require his level of talent. Why do you think that is?



Playing with Alice Cooper requires Steve Vai levels of talent? Are we talking about the same Alice Cooper? Or Michael Bolton?

For that matter, how many other big-name touring acts picked women guitarists as hired guns? Shouldn't we be seeing more of them if the industry is so keen to push women above equally-or-more-talented men?


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## BBird (Mar 13, 2013)

celticelk said:


> For that matter, how many other big-name touring acts picked women guitarists as hired guns? Shouldn't we be seeing more of them if the industry is so keen to push women above equally-or-more-talented men?



I failed at shutting up.

That is actually an excellent point. Take the guitar off of Ori and she is not hot. She just isn't. She is a very regular 28-year-old woman with much too much make up, a big hat and a huge nose. (Mind, I love her, but hey - facts are facts.)

Why aren't there a lot of real hot women with guitars left and right?


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 13, 2013)

BBird said:


> Not one expert moaning about her has ever explained to the humble old me what exactly is wrong with her playing to warrant such a terrible reputation amongst some but not all guitar communities in the internet.
> 
> But what does make her so unworthy?





> Don't give me the crap about boobs, because she doesn't have a pair. Don't give me the crap about looks because she is very plain. Don't give me ANY crap about showing her ass off, because she wears more clothes than the rest of the band put together. Just tell me:
> 
> What exactly is it that makes her so bad that she is seemingly the most hated guitar player in the world?



^ This. The only time I've ever seen these two matters being related were on the internet. I've never heard so many terms so loosely thrown around as I've seen on forums that just do not apply in the real world. That being said i dont think its a gender issue imho. I think once you reach a certain point everyone who is not at that point becomes a critic down to the last detail, the internet is just an easy way for people to voice their opinions and compare an artist to their own personal tastes. If it' not about the artists music, it becomes more about the critics desire to be reputable by any means.


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 13, 2013)

celticelk said:


> how many other big-name touring acts picked women guitarists as hired guns? Shouldn't we be seeing more of them if the industry is so keen to push women above equally-or-more-talented men?



Exactly. If it really was true that the successful female guitarists are only being hired or included in bands coz they are sexy or good looking rather than on their talents, then an industry as money orientated and greedy as the music industry would have been milking that one for all its worth for years.... so if that's the case with someone like Orianthi, why aren't there 100's of Orianthi clones out there touring with all the big names? 

And who gives a fcuk really if Govan, Slash or me is better or worse a player or better known/famous than her? That's all a matter of opinion and taste and clearly Cooper is happy with her as Dizzy Rascal is happy with Govan and everyone and their mum is happy to have Slash on their records.... good for Slash, Govan, and Orianthi.... if only someone would let me guest on their record! LOL!


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 13, 2013)

Sorry to double post but its only to highlight my own stupidity for being suckered in to posting/ranting on what is still a sad and pointless thread.....


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## Handbanana (Mar 13, 2013)

Dont care what you guys say, I'd still bang that chick from The Agonist...


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 13, 2013)

The only thing sad i see here are the 'heroes' that honestly believe they're somehow 'rescuing' these adult female musicians from some invisible ' serial rapist guy' from the industry..or somewhere by bashing any guy that encourages and appreciates their right to look and play however they like. I understand wanting to be respectful but at what cost? sending women back into the 1950's? When has an industry not been driven by marketing and capital...now more than ever should we get over the gender thing and be able to discuss sensitive subjects like responsible adults. The only way to do that is to deal with it out in the open rather than avoid it. That only adds to the problem imo, Never knew this was even such a big deal until the internet. Hence the reason I Resurrected the thread. Honestly meant to offend no one.


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## JohnIce (Mar 13, 2013)

coreysMonster said:


> I think you're getting people's arguments wrong.
> 
> 1. Every musician is ragged on. Malmsteen has no feeling, Satriani is sloppy, Bulb can't play because he's made of glass and doesn't have hands
> 
> ...



1) No-one ever said Yngwie, Vai or Satch got undeserved attention for showing their boobs. No-one ever said they didn't deserve to be on the same stage as each other or similarly "iconic" guitar players. My point is they're judged as individuals, whereas girls are immediately filtered through the "hot/not" step and then accused of getting preferential treatment. I've never seen ANYTHING that points to girls getting preferential treatment in metal. If they did, metal musicians wouldn't be 99.99% male.

2) Steve Vai is, as far as I know, very open to bringing local talents on stage with him. I recall the story being that Steve played with Orianthi when she was a kid and he was touring Australia, and they became pals. That's just regular business networking, not preferential treatment.

When you talk about "them", who specifically do you mean? All these girl guitarists? Who? Besides Orianthi? And are they all more successful than Green Day, The Ramones, Springsteen, Paul McCartney and well any number of super-famous, multi-millionaire "ok" guitar players? And since when did musical success and talent have any relation? Only when we're talking about girls, apparently.

Btw, you say "it has nothing to do with them being girls, but with who they are..." What?! That seems very contradictory to me.




Idontpersonally said:


> "I'm going to stop making music because of a comment about my boobs on my public video"- said no female musician ever.



"I'm not pretty enough..." said/thought every woman ever. That's my point, women and the worldwide pressure put on their appearance is incomparable in men. Whether they care themselves or not is in itself irrelevant because the comments will keep coming. Men in metal have incredible difficulties in just shutting up about girls' appearances and just listening to the fucking music, respecting her as a musician instead of as a pair of tits.


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## troyguitar (Mar 13, 2013)

Knock pop music all you want, but they hire very good players almost exclusively for recording and touring. Typically much better players than the guys in your average rock/metal band.

Orianthi reminds me quite a bit of Lita actually. Lita is a better singer and a worse player but still good and she actually plays her own solos unlike most front-women in rock/metal.


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 13, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> "I'm not pretty enough..." said/thought every woman ever.







> That's my point, women and the worldwide pressure put on their appearance is incomparable in men. Whether they care themselves or not is in itself irrelevant because the comments will keep coming. Men in metal have incredible difficulties in just shutting up about girls' appearances and just listening to the fucking music, respecting her as a musician instead of as a pair of tits.



My point was simply that it's more inappropriate for one to speak on behalf of people who's perspectives they know nothing about than the individual opinions themselves as opinions will always be criticized if not collectively agreed upon. Gender, music, race, religion will never be collectively agreed upon and the experiences therein will always be subjective. Thus, the only way to find common understanding as musicians first, politicians second, would be to share our experiences unbridled by prejudices and labels.


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## thesnowdog (Mar 13, 2013)

celticelk said:


> For that matter, how many other big-name touring acts picked women guitarists as hired guns? Shouldn't we be seeing more of them if the industry is so keen to push women above equally-or-more-talented men?



Sharon Aguilar is starting to make a career for herself doing so with Cee Lo Green, Diddy and others.


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> 1) No-one ever said Yngwie, Vai or Satch got undeserved attention for showing their boobs. No-one ever said they didn't deserve to be on the same stage as each other or similarly "iconic" guitar players. My point is they're judged as individuals, whereas girls are immediately filtered through the "hot/not" step and then accused of getting preferential treatment. I've never seen ANYTHING that points to girls getting preferential treatment in metal. If they did, metal musicians wouldn't be 99.99% male.
> 
> 2) Steve Vai is, as far as I know, very open to bringing local talents on stage with him. I recall the story being that Steve played with Orianthi when she was a kid and he was touring Australia, and they became pals. That's just regular business networking, not preferential treatment.
> 
> ...


1) No one ever said that Malmsteen, Satch, Vai or the likes don't deserve to be on stage with each other? I've seen _pages _of forum arguments about exactly this. Including things like "That fat fuck Malmsteen needs to go off and eat donuts" or whatever.

2) I didn't know this, and if he does this with young talents more often then I retract everything I said about it.

By "them" I mean all the girl guitarists that were shoved down everybody's throats by Daisy Rock on ultimate-guitar in the past years. It left a real bad taste in everyone's mouth because most of them were clearly mediocre, yet were given front page presence on a gigantic guitar website. People mocked them not because they were female, but because when put along side the normal standard of musicians reported about, they were simply a joke. 
And bullshit about the "only girls have to have talent to be successful". All those people you listed wrote great music. McCartney is legions behind Orianthi's technical skill at his instrument, of course, but Orianthi hasn't even scratched the surface of his level of songwriting. When Orianthi starts writing good music, then we can talk. 

The last thing, I was talking about how I believe backlash comes no because they're girls, but because they're being pushed not for their skill, but because they are girls. Again, like how you get all these really mediocre female guitarists on a front page because of some marketing deal. It's horrible, short-sighted marketing and is terrible for musicians. Nobody likes the "I'm a girl rocker" shtick anymore than anybody likes "I'm a girl gamer".




JohnIce said:


> "I'm not pretty enough..." said/thought every woman ever. That's my point, women and the worldwide pressure put on their appearance is incomparable in men. Whether they care themselves or not is in itself irrelevant because the comments will keep coming. Men in metal have incredible difficulties in just shutting up about girls' appearances and just listening to the fucking music, respecting her as a musician instead of as a pair of tits.


Again my point. Stop marketing women through their appearance, hold them to the same standards as the dudes and people will stop caring as much. Nobody ever complains about Tarja or Anneke van Giersbergen in metal, because they're fucking incredible at what they do. If Orianthi played like Tarja sang, nobody here would be doing anything but kissing the ground she walked on.


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## SkapocalypseNow (Mar 13, 2013)

coreysMonster said:


> By "them" I mean all the girl guitarists that were shoved down everybody's throats by Daisy Rock on ultimate-guitar in the past years. It left a real bad taste in everyone's mouth because most of them were clearly mediocre, yet were given front page presence on a gigantic guitar website.


THIS pissed me right the hell off. The worst part about it, to me personally, were the fact that there actually were interviews with one or two fairly talented musicians, only to have questions like "What's it like to be a FEMALE guitarist?" all over the place. And don't get me started on Daisy Rock. That's a discussion for a whole 'nother thread. Bleh.


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

SkapocalypseNow said:


> THIS pissed me right the hell off. The worst part about it, to me personally, were the fact that there actually were interviews with one or two fairly talented musicians, only to have questions like "What's it like to be a FEMALE guitarist?" all over the place. And don't get me started on Daisy Rock. That's a discussion for a whole 'nother thread. Bleh.


Oh yeah, this sooo much. There were indeed a couple of really interesting and good talents, I have to agree, but there wasn't any information about them at all.

EDIT: I would like to say, though, as my closing statement, that despite all the dissent against her and even though I personally don't like her playing or music, Orianthi can give exactly zero fucks about what any of us think. She's toured with freakin Alice Cooper, she's got no reason to give two shits about what any number of hobbyist guitarists might say about her music and technique, or who accuse her of being given an easier chance to get into the door because of her looks. At the end of the day, she's the one out touring, and I'm getting ready for my desk job in the morning.


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## crg123 (Mar 13, 2013)

Surprised no one mentioned the Great Kat haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBxsODC4Szg

Kinda crazy and abrasive shred



> *The Great Kat* was born Katherine Thomas in Swindon, England (on a U.S. Air Force Base Military Hospital) and moved to the U.S at the age of 3. After listening to Beethoven since birth, *The Great Kat* realized that her mission was to become a composer and musical revolutionary. She began classical piano studies at 7. At the age of 9, she began classical violin studies in New York.
> 
> At the age of 15, *The Great Kat* was accepted to the prestigious Juilliard School in New York City as a scholarship student on violin. *The Great Kat* graduated from The Juilliard School and began performing, first as a classical violin soloist at Carnegie Recital Hall as winner of the exclusive Artists International Competition and then extensively in Mexico, the U.S. and Europe.
> 
> ...


Edit: LMAO she's crazy as shit. WATCH THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj8mkh_6eWs

Reminds me of a female Sam Kinison (voice wise), but apparently she's transcribed over 1000 classical pieces into speed metal symphonies.


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## coreysMonster (Mar 13, 2013)

Cocaine is a helluva drug, man


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## ilyti (Mar 13, 2013)




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## Loomer (Mar 14, 2013)

skeels said:


> Oh, the ennui.....



Eh, what? What does that have to do with anything?


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## wookie606 (Mar 14, 2013)

we need more clit in the pit!


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## skeels (Mar 14, 2013)

Loomer said:


> Eh, what? What does that have to do with anything?



I'm sorry my last post saddened and worried you.

Fear not.

The irony I find is that anarchism, as defined and commonly perceived, is considered a political theory. 

Not that I truly care what other people think about it. That bears no relevance to the reality of illusion, the Collective Autonomous Federation of the United Provinces of SSO and the price of tea in China- especially as I don't drink tea. I drink coffee. 

Hence, the ennui. 

But your distress concerns me deeply. The use of words and whether or not anyone is anarching their ironism all over the place should not temper your joy.

I am reminded of an old friend, whose judgement i trust implicitly, on account of he had killed more people than anybody I know, who told me-actually he wrote it down- 

"Do not rob yourself of happiness."


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## no_dice (Mar 14, 2013)

skeels said:


> I'm sorry my last post saddened and worried you.
> 
> Fear not.
> 
> ...



...what?


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## Brill (Mar 14, 2013)

Lol this was one of the first threads i started.
I mainly started this so i could find more female vocalists in metak bands (clean singing wise).
I dont regret starting this thread, as i found one of my current faviurite bands from it (unexpect).


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## JohnIce (Mar 14, 2013)

Idontpersonally said:


> My point was simply that it's more inappropriate for one to speak on behalf of people who's perspectives they know nothing about than the individual opinions themselves as opinions will always be criticized if not collectively agreed upon. Gender, music, race, religion will never be collectively agreed upon and the experiences therein will always be subjective. Thus, the only way to find common understanding as musicians first, politicians second, would be to share our experiences unbridled by prejudices and labels.




Can't watch the video in Sweden, apparently. I must say I don't get exactly what you're trying to say, but I assume the gist of it is that you think men can't speak on behalf of women, and should as such not even make an attempt at seeing the issue from a woman's viewpoint. Cue: keep talking about boobs and ass and leave the issues for the women to deal with.

To me, that's double-sided. On the one hand I agree that a white male like myself can't fully understand what it's like to be anything else. You're right on that one. But it's also my opinion that being a white male gives me more undeserved privileges than any other group in society and that to me means some humility and open-mindedness is in order on my part. I'm not comfortable with inequality just because I'm on the (currently) winning side of it. I'd also argue on your point that I'd know "nothing about" the perspectives of other people. I listen, and talk to people. A lot of people. Like I said I can't fully understand it, but I've talked about it countless times with the direct source (=actual women in metal bands) and plenty of secondary sources (=festival promotors, label reps, friends and boyfriends), hell my own sister is a woman making rock music. I'm not using my gender as an excuse to not give a fuck.

As far as being musicians first and politicians second, I won't argue with that. My argument was to be musicians first, and male/female second, so we seem to agree a fair bit on that one.



coreysMonster said:


> 1) No one ever said that Malmsteen, Satch, Vai or the likes don't deserve to be on stage with each other? I've seen _pages _of forum arguments about exactly this. Including things like "That fat fuck Malmsteen needs to go off and eat donuts" or whatever.
> 
> 2) I didn't know this, and if he does this with young talents more often then I retract everything I said about it.
> 
> ...



I'd rather not draw that card, but apparently it's in order: Opinions, mate  Your issue with Orianthi in particular is that you don't like her music. Other people do, I enjoy it for casual listening. It's well produced pop-rock with prominent guitars, there's a place for that in my collection.

As for Daisy Rock, if they make it their business to uplift women in rock music and sponsor the growth of female role models to get girls to buy guitars, it's a win-win for them. Whether it works or not is a risk on _their_ wallet. It's no different from record labels pushing Biebers and Nicki Minaj in your face next to every VEVO-video. If that's how they want to spend their marketing budget then all you can do is give a better offer to the people setting the ads. Failing to do so, you'll just have to find comfort in the fact that the music you like is yours and no amount of Daisy Rock ads can take it away from you. Maximum exposure is not automatically handed out to the most subjectively "deserving" of it, it's given to the highest bidder.

Btw, I absolutely did NOT make the claim that only girls need to have talent to be successful. That is indeed bullshit and I would never say such a thing. I was talking purely about guitar playing skill. I value songwriting, performance and good arrangements higher than instrumental prowess. I think Orianthi is a better singer and songwriter than she is a guitar player. But her guitar playing is what's scrutinized, if she was just a singer unable to form a chord then people might not be giving her as much crap, which is weird.


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## as_i_am (Mar 14, 2013)

Stream Of Passion should have been mentioned by now. Lori became Arjen Anthony Lucassens manager and guitarist for guilt machine and the vocalist is quite good too 



Also, Rolo Tomassi are amazing:


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 14, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> Can't watch the video in Sweden, apparently. I must say I don't get exactly what you're trying to say, but I assume the gist of it is that you think men can't speak on behalf of women, and should as such not even make an attempt at seeing the issue from a woman's viewpoint. Cue: keep talking about boobs and ass and leave the issues for the women to deal with.


The gist of the video was at the 'im not pretty enough' comment. He basically explained that self esteem is esteem of ones own self, and to blame someone for the way you feel about yourself makes no sense. Also that women basically run the world in a sense and there are a small majority of men who dont understand that. The reason of posting pics was to get a response of male musicians who do and dont understand what those pics represent other than being 'racy' @cue: No, the idea is that in these days there should be less issues for anyone to deal with, both men and women like attention, theres nothing wrong with that and if boobs and ass offend you fine, but dont be sad, dont judge. It's left to ones own self to deal with not one gender because a musicians soul is neither male nor female.



> To me, that's double-sided. On the one hand I agree that a white male like myself can't fully understand what it's like to be anything else. You're right on that one. But it's also my opinion that being a white male gives me more undeserved privileges than any other group in society and that to me means some humility and open-mindedness is in order on my part. I'm not comfortable with inequality just because I'm on the (currently) winning side of it. I'd also argue on your point that I'd know "nothing about" the perspectives of other people. I listen, and talk to people. A lot of people. Like I said I can't fully understand it, but I've talked about it countless times with the direct source (=actual women in metal bands) and plenty of secondary sources (=festival promotors, label reps, friends and boyfriends), hell my own sister is a woman making rock music. I'm not using my gender as an excuse to not give a fuck.


Of course I dont think youve expressed that much conviction in your beliefs by knowing nothing about people. Im saying im offering a perspective that if you could look at with the same humility you claim to give everyone then you would know that I'm not saying your wrong and Im right or dont care. Im saying choices, the reasons why we do things are subjective. I care about the persons right to choose regardless of what anyone thinks, Even offered videos as sources and a quote that would save me from repeating mute points. I think theyre worth looking at if youre actually interested in where im coming from. I have had very different experiences with females/musicians. There are attractive women with low self esteem and unattractive girls that are complete narcissist. People that want a certain kind of attention and people that dont care for it. That's just how reality works, we create our own experiences. There are no two a like. What youre describing I just have not seen exactly as you put it, I understand some people here are just trying to be respectful I've felt the same way until Ive heard more and more women speak up against being so traditional that it boxes them into a frame that most modern women just dont fit into anymore.


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## SkapocalypseNow (Mar 14, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> But her guitar playing is what's scrutinized, if she was just a singer unable to form a chord then people wouldn't be giving her a second look.


Fixed that for you. No matter how you feel about her music, the guitar playing IS her selling point. You take that away and you've got pretty much everything else out right now. Orianthi's music is just a different approach at pop music marketing. And if it works for her, it works for her, I'm not gonna knock her for it. She has a hand in most of the stuff she does (barring the writing for the only song anyone really knows by her), but in doing the stuff she's done, she's gained enough popularity to work with some of the biggest people in the business. Now, I do have doubts that she was chosen by those people PURELY for her talent, but eh.


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## JohnIce (Mar 14, 2013)

Idontpersonally said:


> The gist of the video was at the 'im not pretty enough' comment. He basically explained that self esteem is esteem of ones own self, and to blame someone for the way you feel about yourself makes no sense. Also that women basically run the world in a sense and there are a small majority of men who dont understand that. The reason of posting pics was to get a response of male musicians who do and dont understand what those pics represent other than being 'racy' @cue: No, the idea is that in these days there should be less issues for anyone to deal with, both men and women like attention, theres nothing wrong with that and if boobs and ass offend you fine, but dont be sad, dont judge. It's left to ones own self to deal with not one gender because a musicians soul is neither male nor female.
> 
> 
> Of course I dont think youve expressed that much conviction in your beliefs by knowing nothing about people. Im saying im offering a perspective that if you could look at with the same humility you claim to give everyone then you would know that I'm not saying your wrong and Im right or dont care. Im saying choices, the reasons why we do things are subjective. I care about the persons right to choose regardless of what anyone thinks, Even offered videos as sources and a quote that would save me from repeating mute points. I think theyre worth looking at if youre actually interested in where im coming from. I have had very different experiences with females/musicians. There are attractive women with low self esteem and unattractive girls that are complete narcissist. People that want a certain kind of attention and people that dont care for it. That's just how reality works, we create our own experiences. There are no two a like. What youre describing I just have not seen exactly as you put it, I understand some people here are just trying to be respectful I've felt the same way until Ive heard more and more women speak up against being so traditional that it boxes them into a frame that most modern women just dont fit into anymore.



I think I'm beginning to understand most of what you're trying to say. The "said every woman ever" comment was intended as a joke in response to your "said NO woman ever" remark. I thought that went without saying, but to clarify, I'm well aware that not all women have issues with their self-esteem. I'm just saying it's more common and more hidden than what men are usually observant enough to see.

I agree that attention should be put on the musician before the gender. I don't see where I have ever said anything else.

I also never said I was offended by boobs, quite the opposite. I fucking love boobs. Some might call it an obsession. What I don't like is when talent is overlooked, ignored or dismissed because of or in favour of boobs.

I don't doubt the video is worth looking at, but like I said, it's blocked in my country of residence.

Seems a lot of what we're apparently arguing about is misunderstandings. I'll take partial responsibility because I have trouble understanding your points. Blame my grasp of the english language if you will. Either way discussing it further will most likely not lead anywhere if the argument is going to be about who's arguing or not.


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## Idontpersonally (Mar 15, 2013)

@john fair enough. I meant this video though, also warpaint- 'elephants' and 'stars' theyre couple pages back. They explain the non traditional ways in which they prefer to dress as opposed to being told how they should look, that's all I was saying.


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## coreysMonster (Mar 15, 2013)

JohnIce said:


> I'd rather not draw that card, but apparently it's in order: Opinions, mate  Your issue with Orianthi in particular is that you don't like her music. Other people do, I enjoy it for casual listening. It's well produced pop-rock with prominent guitars, there's a place for that in my collection.
> 
> As for Daisy Rock, if they make it their business to uplift women in rock music and sponsor the growth of female role models to get girls to buy guitars, it's a win-win for them. Whether it works or not is a risk on _their_ wallet. It's no different from record labels pushing Biebers and Nicki Minaj in your face next to every VEVO-video. If that's how they want to spend their marketing budget then all you can do is give a better offer to the people setting the ads. Failing to do so, you'll just have to find comfort in the fact that the music you like is yours and no amount of Daisy Rock ads can take it away from you. Maximum exposure is not automatically handed out to the most subjectively "deserving" of it, it's given to the highest bidder.
> 
> Btw, I absolutely did NOT make the claim that only girls need to have talent to be successful. That is indeed bullshit and I would never say such a thing. I was talking purely about guitar playing skill. I value songwriting, performance and good arrangements higher than instrumental prowess. I think Orianthi is a better singer and songwriter than she is a guitar player. But her guitar playing is what's scrutinized, if she was just a singer unable to form a chord then people might not be giving her as much crap, which is weird.


I can agree with this.  I was just trying to argue against the statement that everybody who doesn't like Orianthi or the way she's sold does so just because she's a chick... which I probably should have just said in the first place.  

I always try to say way too many things and ramble.


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## isispelican (Mar 15, 2013)

too lazy to see if already mentioned but check these out:


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## BBird (Mar 15, 2013)

Am I seeing reasonable debate on the internet? Get a hold of yourselves people, that is completely unacceptable. 

(I found the comment about the Chick in The Agonist to be especially offending in this sense.  )


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## FeedMeWithColours (Mar 15, 2013)

The epitome of image over music quality.


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## xethicx (Mar 15, 2013)

Here's my thought on the matter. 

I love seeing ANYONE of any gender, colour or whatever play music if they can play. I have always felt that way. 

That being said, after Angela Gassow came flying out of the gate with Arch Enemy and Candace rocked the stage with Walls of Jericho it seemed like the genre started getting jammed with bands that just HAD to have a female lead singer and so did the labels. That got stale quick because it almost seemed like the bands were formed for the purpose of showcasing some chick singer. Then bands like In this moment and so on came around and the focus became all on these girls rather than the bands or the music. 

Now the trend seems to be cute chicks shredding on youtube, this trend is awesome and can continue for as long as it wants lol Ill be ok with that. 

So the bottom line is, if the music is good, I dont care whos playing it.


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## FooBAR (Mar 16, 2013)

Leah from Aliases >>> every other poser metal chic mentioned in this thread.

(Not that I actually like Aliases, though...a bit too generic Brit tech metal for my tastes).


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## Sepultorture (Mar 16, 2013)

dude, those Harp Twins cover fear of the dark, mad respect to them, been watching some of their work and i have to say i quite like it, and their desire to not conform to a standardized NORM for women playing harp

i'm still the same as i was when i started playing guitar as a teen, if you can play, i don't give a shit about sex, dress, race, beuty or any of that other shit, if you can play i have respect


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## Zer01 (Mar 16, 2013)

When did we start calling women "females"? I mean, I know everyone does it now, I'm just wondering when the change happened. No one ever calls men males. Those words should be saved for veterinarians LOL


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## fr4nci2c0 (Mar 16, 2013)

crg123 said:


> Surprised no one mentioned the Great Kat haha:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBxsODC4Szg
> 
> ...





HAHAHahA WOW she is crazy as fuuck yet awesome AHHHH! I really want that poster worship me or die LOL


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## tacotiklah (Mar 16, 2013)

I really had to stop that Great Kat video. I have an aversion to horrifically vain guitarists, no matter how good they are.


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## wankerness (Mar 16, 2013)

Does she have anything that's LISTENABLE? That sounded like practically random notes in between the repetitive riffs.


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## skeels (Mar 17, 2013)

Haha! I remember Worship Me or Die... 1987 at it's finest! 

She's still kickin' too. Think she got a little more obnoxious as well...


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## Idontpersonally (Apr 15, 2013)

Rachel got in a band!


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## crg123 (Apr 17, 2013)

wankerness said:


> Does she have anything that's LISTENABLE? That sounded like practically random notes in between the repetitive riffs.




The Problem with her is really her tone, She's actually very good but yea I think the whole attitude thing was really just to be different. She didn't want to be a typical groupie in the 80s generation. She wanted to push it to the limit and make an impression as a woman in metal. Compete with the guys if you will. Also. Cocaine. Lots and lots of Cocaine...



skeels said:


> Haha! I remember Worship Me or Die... 1987 at it's finest!
> 
> She's still kickin' too. Think she got a little more obnoxious as well...



Is she huge now? I could imagine he being like a female yngwie whale. Any videos?


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## -42- (Apr 18, 2013)

There is only one Kat the Great.


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## lawizeg (Apr 18, 2013)

Hopefully ill be a female Cloudkicker/Plini someday lol.


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## CrashRG (Apr 18, 2013)

That "The Great Kat" video made me want to shoot myself..........I hate people like that. Doesn't matter if theyre male or female. Just so over the fucking top that it's just absolutely annoying.


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## Idontpersonally (Jun 3, 2013)




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## coreysMonster (Jun 3, 2013)

lawizeg said:


> Hopefully ill be a female Cloudkicker/Plini someday lol.


Please do. Not for being a woman, but because the world simply needs more musicians like CK or Plini.


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## sonicwarrior (Jun 15, 2013)

No one mentioned Cripper yet? Featuring the Elchkuh ('elk cow')



Holy Moses



Equilibrium (bass player)



Bolth Thrower (also bass player)



Crematory (keyboard player)


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## blaaargh (Jun 16, 2013)

Code Orange Kids

Reba Meyer is a ....ing awesome frontlady


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## Idontpersonally (Jun 26, 2013)




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## Idontpersonally (Jul 9, 2013)




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