# Tosin Abasi Fluence sig set



## narad

Guess it's about that time everyone's starting to leak their NAMM stuff. Here's Tosin's new Fluence sig set:

[YOUTUBEVID]LVbjhXJ1WeI[/YOUTUBEVID]

Interesting how he talks about voicing them in real time, which I imagine, given the active architecture, simply means them tweaking the active EQ. But if that's the case, I feel like Fishman still hasn't hit on what would really be revolutionary here, which is user-changeable pickup preamps. I don't understand why they're fixed 1-3 options from the factory?


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## odibrom

These pickups (the Fluence series) are printed, not wound as all other brands (active or passive) do. Just because of that they bring something new and fresh.


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## CapnForsaggio

odibrom said:


> These pickups (the Fluence series) are printed, not wound as all other brands (active or passive) do. Just because of that they bring something new and fresh.



Tell me more. How are they "printing" conductive parts and insulation?


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## posmaster

CapnForsaggio said:


> Tell me more. How are they "printing" conductive parts and insulation?



PCBs rather than wire winds.


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## narad

Besides greater consistency, I can't say I see what perks that brings to the table.


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## posmaster

narad said:


> Besides greater consistency, I can't say I see what perks that brings to the table.



I would suggest listening through the Luthierist podcast where Frank Falbo discusses the benefits thereof:

https://theluthierist.podbean.com/e/frank-falbo/


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## Lorcan Ward

Sounds interesting but would be nice to actually hear them. I think Killswitch have a sig set being unveiled at NAMM too.


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## narad

posmaster said:


> I would suggest listening through the Luthierist podcast where Frank Falbo discusses the benefits thereof:
> 
> https://theluthierist.podbean.com/e/frank-falbo/



Or I mean, you could just tell me?


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## Matt08642

Are Fishman pickups the newest meme gear?


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## narad

Also, weird that the only audio in the whole clip sounds a lot like the studio cut using _not_ Fishman Fluence pickups?


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## odibrom

CapnForsaggio said:


> Tell me more. How are they "printing" conductive parts and insulation?



As far as I know, Fishman is printing them with 3D printers that print metal filaments. They say they get exactly what they project and no crosstalk between wire layers or whatever. Absolutely noiseless, but they are low impedance (less "wire turns") so they need a preamp. They layer several printed PCBs and a coil is born. More on this is a Google search away or on Fishman website. This promo vid also shows a little how they are built...



http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/


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## beerandbeards

Ken Susi is getting everyone on board


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## You

These pickups are quite interesting, yet, in spite of a plethora of artists promoting them (Stephan Carpenter, Ken Susi, Devin Townsend, esc.) they do not appear to be embraced by the greater public very well.


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## BearOnGuitar

narad said:


> Besides greater consistency, I can't say I see what perks that brings to the table.



Outstanding massive sound, increased clarity, increased note separation with chords (every note can be heard when playing complex chords even under the highest amounts of gain), improved dynamics compared to other actives, fluid and silky feel (hard to explain, needs to be experienced), fully buffered output, dual voicings, coil split and high freq tilt options. Nothing else compares imo.


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## Lemons

Well that does it, I've been looking for a set of active soapbar sized 8 string pickups and I'm a little too much of a Tosin fan boy to not try these out when they're released.


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## Bearitone

Everyone does seem to love them but, I just don't think anything is going to win over players that don't want to deal with batteries or recharging.

Don't Alumitones (which are passive) already offer most of what Fluence pickups do? A totally noiseless, extremely clear, dynamic full range response?


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## Lasik124

Boo!

Give us a demo!

Anyway, these pups seem cool. Will have to give em a shot at some point.

Tosin seemed pretty stoked. Wonder if it genuine.

Fishman appears to be on a misson to get new artists. Even my boy Head from Korn has one in his new sig. Would love to see if they live up the hype!


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## Lorcan Ward

Lasik124 said:


> Tosin seemed pretty stoked. Wonder if it genuine.



I'm sure it is since he has gotten multiple custom sets from dimarzio and Seymour Duncan, maybe even BKPs.


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## narad

BearOnGuitar said:


> Outstanding massive sound, increased clarity, increased note separation with chords (every note can be heard when playing complex chords even under the highest amounts of gain), improved dynamics compared to other actives, fluid and silky feel (hard to explain, needs to be experienced), fully buffered output, dual voicings, coil split and high freq tilt options. Nothing else compares imo.



I think they're probably pretty good pickups but this is just the same description everyone applies to their pickups and there's no reason to think teh pickup construction method would yield any of these characteristics. I'll take consistency and lack of cross-talk, since they're the ones mentioned so far that follow specifically from ditching a wire wrapping construction method.


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## BearOnGuitar

narad said:


> I think they're probably pretty good pickups but this is just the same description everyone applies to their pickups and there's no reason to think teh pickup construction method would yield any of these characteristics. I'll take consistency and lack of cross-talk, since they're the ones mentioned so far that follow specifically from ditching a wire wrapping construction method.



If it's not the technology and construction methods that provide their pickups their sound and characteristics, what else does? I mean their sound doesn't exist by pure chance. It a significant advancement of the technology and knowledge behind it that is used to create guitar pickups.

The reason people say the same about them is because these qualities and characteristics are very easy to perceive, it's not a subtle difference. I'm just saying there's a reason why people are switching over and are that excited about the Fluence line.


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## narad

I'm saying that people claim these about all their pickups. Wow, BKPs! Massive sound! Amazing clarity! You hear each note in a chord! etc., etc., it's nothing new to describe a pickup that way, and it's nothing objective, or measurable. Just like everyone gets a new guitar and says, "wow, so much resonance! I can feel it vibrating! It's so loud acoustically!"

Whereas if you print a pickup as opposed to wiring it, it's easy to see why that would lead to more consistency between two instances of the same pickup, and why some cross-talk would be eliminated. I'm not going to rush out and buy a pickup for those reasons, nor am I super convinced that any of the other "massive sound" etc types of traits were audible in any youtube demo, but I suppose these two traits are something I'll think of when I think of fluence.

In other words, I'm saying let's talk about things that you can basically prove aren't just your opinion.


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## BearOnGuitar

narad said:


> I'm saying that people claim these about all their pickups. Wow, BKPs! Massive sound! Amazing clarity! You hear each note in a chord! etc., etc., it's nothing new to describe a pickup that way, and it's nothing objective, or measurable. Just like everyone gets a new guitar and says, "wow, so much resonance! I can feel it vibrating! It's so loud acoustically!"
> 
> Whereas if you print a pickup as opposed to wiring it, it's easy to see why that would lead to more consistency between two instances of the same pickup, and why some cross-talk would be eliminated. I'm not going to rush out and buy a pickup for those reasons, nor am I super convinced that any of the other "massive sound" etc types of traits were audible in any youtube demo, but I suppose these two traits are something I'll think of when I think of fluence.
> 
> In other words, I'm saying let's talk about things that you can basically prove aren't just your opinion.



Yes, and in the case of BKPs it's true. Their types of wire and materials they use and their scatter winding technique definitely produces better note separation and clarity than other passives using a uniform wire winding technique. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the signal jumping between wires in uniform wound pickups, which doesn't happen with scatterwound pickups. However scatterwinding can only be done by hand and most likely needs to be done at much lower winding speeds to prevent the wire from breaking, which is why you usually only see smaller experienced companies offering or using this technique.

And whatever else Fishman is doing, is producing better note separation and clarity than BKPs. Like I said it's not subtle. You can turn the amps gain up all the way, even put a tubescreamer in front of it with the volume maxed, play a chord using all strings, and you'll hear every single note ring out, where as with other pickups some notes will be drowning out and you're left with a muddy and fizzy soup. This would be very easy to demonstrate by simply switching out and comparing pickups using the same settings. There's just no way of measuring it, you can only evaluate it by listening to it through comparison.

I also forgot to mention earlier that Fluence pickups are completely noiseless when used in humbucker mode, which might be the only thing that can be easily measured. The only noise you get is the noise from your amp when you turn up the gain. This might also play a big part in their clarity and fluid feel, since any noise with passives is still present in the signal, even when using a noisegate. The noisegate just removes the noise when no signal from the guitar is present.

Ultimately the only way to understand any equipment, especially equipment utilizing new technology, is by trying and using it yourself. YouTube videos and reviews are really cool, and great to spread the word about new stuff, but they cannot replace your own experiences with equipment. I also think that almost none of the current videos really demonstrate their sound all too well.


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## Quiet Coil

On one hand I'm intrigued - I really liked his Ionizer set from DiMarzio. On the other hand I've had all of the current Fluence humbucker models and like both the Modern and Classic, but the Carpenter and Townsend sets both got returned.

We shall see...


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## endmysuffering

Next is bareknuckle.


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## odibrom

... and Lundgren...


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## coffeeflush

BearOnGuitar said:


> Outstanding massive sound, increased clarity, increased note separation with chords (every note can be heard when playing complex chords even under the highest amounts of gain), improved dynamics compared to other actives, fluid and silky feel (hard to explain, needs to be experienced), fully buffered output, dual voicings, coil split and high freq tilt options. Nothing else compares imo.


How do these compare to the alumitones ?


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## BearOnGuitar

Noisy Humbucker said:


> On one hand I'm intrigued - I really liked his Ionizer set from DiMarzio. On the other hand I've had all of the current Fluence humbucker models and like both the Modern and Classic, but the Carpenter and Townsend sets both got returned.
> 
> We shall see...



Why didn't you like the Steph set? Just curious because I'm looking to get one soon.


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## Quiet Coil

BearOnGuitar said:


> Why didn't you like the Steph set? Just curious because I'm looking to get one soon.



They're based off of the Modern set - neck pickup is actually identical but the bridge has this extra "fizz" above the upper mids that doesn't really add anything and to me kills some of the attack dynamics. My tastes don't necessarily align with the norm these days though so take that with a grain of salt.


They sure look cool though!


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## BearOnGuitar

Noisy Humbucker said:


> They're based off of the Modern set - neck pickup is actually identical but the bridge has this extra "fizz" above the upper mids that doesn't really add anything and to me kills some of the attack dynamics. My tastes don't necessarily align with the norm these days though so take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> They sure look cool though!



Thanks, I appreciate it. Love the moderns so far, and I'll be able to compare them side by side.



coffeeflush said:


> How do these compare to the alumitones ?



I have no idea, never played any lace pickups. I was attracted to them at first because of their unusual tech but lost interest shortly after.


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## frank falbo

BearOnGuitar said:


> Yes, and in the case of BKPs it's true. Their types of wire and materials they use and their scatter winding technique definitely produces better note separation and clarity than other passives using a uniform wire winding technique. If I recall correctly it has something to do with the signal jumping between wires in uniform wound pickups, which doesn't happen with scatterwound pickups. However...And whatever else Fishman is doing, is producing better note separation and clarity than BKPs. Like I said it's not subtle. You can turn the amps gain up all the way, even put a tubescreamer in front of it with the volume maxed, play a chord using all strings, and you'll hear every single note ring out, where as with other pickups some notes will be drowning out and you're left with a muddy and fizzy soup...


Just to jump on one aspect, the term "distributed capacitance" relates to a ton of different characteristics of a pickup, but to break it down to basics, one of them is that note clarity and reduction of phase smearing from the cross talk, exactly what you're talking about. So here's the stat on that: If we say that a certain hand-scatterwound (truly randomized) coil has less distributed capacitance than a perfectly machine-wound coil, a Fluence core has less distributed capacitance than the _scatterwound_ coil by a factor of 10x. 

It's not about "hi-fi" at that point, I mean the extended frequency response available is a huge plus. It's part of why we can make Fluence have characteristics that you could never wind into a pickup, like combining attributes and nuances from different pickups that could never be achieved by wire-wound coils...but really, it's the phase coherency and immediacy that keeps the individual notes and their harmonic content intact even after tons of gain and distortion, because it's more in focus before it hits the gain. You are absolutely correct in what you're hearing.


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## BearOnGuitar

frank falbo said:


> Just to jump on one aspect, the term "distributed capacitance" relates to a ton of different characteristics of a pickup, but to break it down to basics, one of them is that note clarity and reduction of phase smearing from the cross talk, exactly what you're talking about. So here's the stat on that: If we say that a certain hand-scatterwound (truly randomized) coil has less distributed capacitance than a perfectly machine-wound coil, a Fluence core has less distributed capacitance than the _scatterwound_ coil by a factor of 10x.
> 
> It's not about "hi-fi" at that point, I mean the extended frequency response available is a huge plus. It's part of why we can make Fluence have characteristics that you could never wind into a pickup, like combining attributes and nuances from different pickups that could never be achieved by wire-wound coils...but really, it's the phase coherency and immediacy that keeps the individual notes and their harmonic content intact even after tons of gain and distortion, because it's more in focus before it hits the gain. You are absolutely correct in what you're hearing.



I appreciate your insight Frank. I would have never guessed that the improvements are partly due to improved phase coherency (I wasn't even aware that there were phase issues to begin with in traditional designs, and I always thought of guitar signals as a single signal source), but it makes total sense. Everything just sounds so much more solid and chunky. You guys have some outstanding pickups going and it's great to see the Fluence line grow!


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Frank, when splitting from a Humbucker mode to Single Coil mode, is there the traditional volume drop that goes with it, or does the single coil mode retain the same output level as the humbucker?

I'm crossing my fingers hoping the latter is true. It's my biggest request of active pickups is to match the volume evenly between modes.


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## Quiet Coil

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Frank, when splitting from a Humbucker mode to Single Coil mode, is there the traditional volume drop that goes with it, or does the single coil mode retain the same output level as the humbucker?
> 
> I'm crossing my fingers hoping the latter is true. It's my biggest request of active pickups is to match the volume evenly between modes.



Affirmative on the volume drop (said not-Frank). I have all of my Fluence equipped guitars wired with the middle position of a 3-way splitting the inner coils and even when using two splits together there's a bit of a drop in volume. I actually quite like it, especially for cleans (though I do wish I'd left the option to select a single coil from the bridge alone to give me that low-end spank).


It's the same deal with the EMG 89's I use though maybe a bit less so (probably because they're not really splitting anything).


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## odibrom

The EMGs split is really a coil split. As far as I know, EMG uses 2 preamps , one for the humbucking mode and one for the single coil mode (and a dummy coil for hum cancelling?).

For the volume drop on changing from hum to single, place a compressor in front of the amp. Problem solved...


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## Quiet Coil

odibrom said:


> The EMGs split is really a coil split. As far as I know, EMG uses 2 preamps , one for the humbucking mode and one for the single coil mode (and a dummy coil for hum cancelling?).



In my mind "split" means "a section of a whole" so when I said EMG doesn't really split I meant exactly what you said, that it's essentially a whole separate pickup and not split out of the original humbucker...


Anywho, splitting options is another reason why the Fluence pickups are cool. They offer nearly all of the flexibility as traditional passives and then some. I'm still not 100% sold on them for as nifty as they are, something still doesn't feel/sound quite right to me. Obviously can't feel that wrong either if I have them in 4 out of 6 guitars!


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## Quiet Coil

Double post.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I have the 89 paired with an S.
I prefer to keep the volume the same across all pickup selections.
Just my personal preference.


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## Quiet Coil

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> I have the 89 paired with an S.
> I prefer to keep the volume the same across all pickup selections.
> Just my personal preference.



I think most people do, I just don't have a practical need for equal levels since I'm just a home studio rat.  Plus I feel like it expands the dynamic range a bit.


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## frank falbo

If you're into coil splits, the Tosin and the Killswitch models have coil splits, that also change the voicing when the coil is split too. Its not the same output level as the humbucker, but it's not the straight coil split tone of a passive either. Otherwise I think it's about a 6dB drop. 

Now...if you're really into it, the Fluence tone doesn't care if there's resistance in-line like a potentiometer. The sound stays the same because it's low impedance. You COULD wire up a resistor to engage when you're in humbucker mode, knocking the output down a little for the humbucker so the single coil setting comes up by comparison. You could make it a trimpot to set it exactly where you want it.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

frank falbo said:


> If you're into coil splits, the Tosin and the Killswitch models have coil splits, that also change the voicing when the coil is split too. Its not the same output level as the humbucker, but it's not the straight coil split tone of a passive either. Otherwise I think it's about a 6dB drop.
> 
> Now...if you're really into it, the Fluence tone doesn't care if there's resistance in-line like a potentiometer. The sound stays the same because it's low impedance. You COULD wire up a resistor to engage when you're in humbucker mode, knocking the output down a little for the humbucker so the single coil setting comes up by comparison. You could make it a trimpot to set it exactly where you want it.



But wouldn't the trim pot act like an attenuator, like a pickup volume would be?
It would mess with the gain structure itself, wouldn't it?


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## patdavidmusic

frank falbo said:


> If you're into coil splits, the Tosin and the Killswitch models have coil splits, that also change the voicing when the coil is split too. Its not the same output level as the humbucker, but it's not the straight coil split tone of a passive either. Otherwise I think it's about a 6dB drop.
> 
> Now...if you're really into it, the Fluence tone doesn't care if there's resistance in-line like a potentiometer. The sound stays the same because it's low impedance. You COULD wire up a resistor to engage when you're in humbucker mode, knocking the output down a little for the humbucker so the single coil setting comes up by comparison. You could make it a trimpot to set it exactly where you want it.



Frank it's so good to have you on these forums


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## frank falbo

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> But wouldn't the trim pot act like an attenuator, like a pickup volume would be?
> It would mess with the gain structure itself, wouldn't it?



It's a volume reduction, yes, but with absolutely zero side effects. The tone is identical to what it would be if there were no attenuation. Just like if you turn your guitar's volume down with Fluence, the tone doesn't change, and they're full headroom so the dynamics are still huge. Not like a typical active pickup that's hard limiting and THEN you're turning it down.


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## Yodel

Edit: nevermind


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## HumanFuseBen

I'll tell you what.... 
I went on tour playing bass for Unearth a couple years ago. Ken Susi, their guitarist, is one of Fishman's artist reps. While we were out on the road, Ken kept bragging on these pickups and saying how much i would love them, and how i gotta try them out and all that... i had already made up my mind that i hated them. i HATE active pickups. I've never once gotten a tone i liked from an EMG of any kind, or a Blackout, or whatever (don't get me wrong, there's artists that can make them sound great... i am NOT one of them haha), so i was expecting these to be exactly the same flat, sterile, cold lifeless tone i had come to expect from a battery. 
After tour, he sent me the modern set and i very begrudgingly put them in my RG550. Again, expecting to hate them. I plugged it in and could not believe it. They really sound fantastic. Like, weirdly fantastic. All the dynamics of a passive, none of the downfalls of actives... i don't know how they did it, but they did it. They're legit, dudes.
Now i've got a set of the Classics in my 550 and i couldn't be happier. I like them way better than the Modern. The classic PAF voice is just insanely sick, very similar to an EVH brown sound. Sweet and crunchy, very dynamic, not too hot... totally awesome. 
If ya'll have any questions feel free to ask! I've used the modern 6, classic 6, and modern 7 sets.


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## katsumura78

I'm ready to hear this KSE set. 3 voices so how would you go about wiring them up to make use of all 3?


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## HumanFuseBen

katsumura78 said:


> I'm ready to hear this KSE set. 3 voices so how would you go about wiring them up to make use of all 3?



whoa, 3?!?! i didn't know they were doing that! I assume a 3 way mini switch would be used.


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## runbirdman

I have been so close to pulling the trigger on a set of Fluence Moderns for a while. I was going to order a set for an ESP Eclipse to replace the 81 set but I think I'm going to hold off until after NAMM to if any of the new sets call my name.


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## BearOnGuitar

frank falbo said:


> It's a volume reduction, yes, but with absolutely zero side effects. The tone is identical to what it would be if there were no attenuation. Just like if you turn your guitar's volume down with Fluence, the tone doesn't change, and they're full headroom so the dynamics are still huge. Not like a typical active pickup that's hard limiting and THEN you're turning it down.



Are the dynamics something that you currently work on improving? I think they're a huge improvement over all other active pickups, but still sound slightly compressed compared to passives. If Fluence pickups would reach the dynamics and openness of passives there would not be a reason to use anything else anymore.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

frank falbo said:


> It's a volume reduction, yes, but with absolutely zero side effects. The tone is identical to what it would be if there were no attenuation. Just like if you turn your guitar's volume down with Fluence, the tone doesn't change, and they're full headroom so the dynamics are still huge. Not like a typical active pickup that's hard limiting and THEN you're turning it down.



Now my interest is thoroughly piqued!
Thanks Frank!

Or, shall I don a new term?

"Frank you very much!"


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## katsumura78

HumanFuseBen said:


> whoa, 3?!?! i didn't know they were doing that! I assume a 3 way mini switch would be used.







Yeah man! Time to find a guitar to put these in.


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## narad

I'm super hoping for a Caparison sig of that dellinger with the pickguard (and preferably the maple board one he has, not pictured). That would be my foray into Fishman


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## patdavidmusic

unsure why it's so small but there you go 
it states in the write up that coils and rails are used, maybe a stock modern set photo was used and tosin actual set will look more like devin's


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## BearOnGuitar

The Tosin set looks very promising, I'm definitely excited for those clips. So, instead of the coil splitting option there will be a 3rd voicing option for single coil tones? I'm hoping the 7 string version will be available in the passive sized shape as well.

The catalog also shows a Will Adler set: http://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017_Product_Catalog_Retail.pdf


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## frank falbo

Sort of. What it really is, is 2 voices, and then when you engage the coil split, it automatically engages this 3rd voice that is dedicated to the single coil sound. Then, in Tosin's case we wire it up pretty custom. You don't have to do this. But he uses a super 5-way so that the 2 and 4 positions are automatically splitting to single coil, and combining different coils, etc. 

Like when he talks about a tele-like neck pickup tone, we're splitting to alnico poles in the neck-side coil of the neck pickup, through "Voice 3" of that neck pickup. Then, for the other setting, we go to the inside coils, but feeding Voice 3 in the bridge pickup. It's pretty sick. 

You can do all of those selections other ways, with push/pulls and mini toggles too. We just put them all on a 5-way super switch for Tosin's guitars.


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## patdavidmusic

frank falbo said:


> Sort of. What it really is, is 2 voices, and then when you engage the coil split, it automatically engages this 3rd voice that is dedicated to the single coil sound. Then, in Tosin's case we wire it up pretty custom. You don't have to do this. But he uses a super 5-way so that the 2 and 4 positions are automatically splitting to single coil, and combining different coils, etc.
> 
> Like when he talks about a tele-like neck pickup tone, we're splitting to alnico poles in the neck-side coil of the neck pickup, through "Voice 3" of that neck pickup. Then, for the other setting, we go to the inside coils, but feeding Voice 3 in the bridge pickup. It's pretty sick.
> 
> You can do all of those selections other ways, with push/pulls and mini toggles too. We just put them all on a 5-way super switch for Tosin's guitars.



That wiring is ridiculous I can't wait to hear proper demos of the single coil tones


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

frank falbo said:


> Sort of. What it really is, is 2 voices, and then when you engage the coil split, it automatically engages this 3rd voice that is dedicated to the single coil sound. Then, in Tosin's case we wire it up pretty custom. You don't have to do this. But he uses a super 5-way so that the 2 and 4 positions are automatically splitting to single coil, and combining different coils, etc.
> 
> Like when he talks about a tele-like neck pickup tone, we're splitting to alnico poles in the neck-side coil of the neck pickup, through "Voice 3" of that neck pickup. Then, for the other setting, we go to the inside coils, but feeding Voice 3 in the bridge pickup. It's pretty sick.
> 
> You can do all of those selections other ways, with push/pulls and mini toggles too. We just put them all on a 5-way super switch for Tosin's guitars.





Can't wait to try them out!


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## Quiet Coil

It's silly, but the one thing that would have me shell out the $$$ to try these would be if they came in white.


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## patdavidmusic

I just want to see these warlocks, the 2017 product info says one thing, the pictures show another, so happy these are coming in 6, 7, 8 string versions


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## juka

Noisy Humbucker said:


> It's silly, but the one thing that would have me shell out the $$$ to try these would be if they came in white.



+1 for more color/finish options!

I know those are signature pickups made to the specs of the artist behind them, but offering them in all color/finish options as the rest of the line would boost sales extremely nevertheless!

Would buy an Abasi and a KSE set immediately if they were available in brushed steel.


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## patdavidmusic

Only a couple of hours and we'll get to see them at the Namm demo, still hoping the product catalog is wrong and the pickups have poles showing and colour options


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## Lemonbaby

frank falbo said:


> Just to jump on one aspect, the term "distributed capacitance" relates to a ton of different characteristics of a pickup, but to break it down to basics, one of them is that note clarity and reduction of phase smearing from the cross talk, exactly what you're talking about. So here's the stat on that: If we say that a certain hand-scatterwound (truly randomized) coil has less distributed capacitance than a perfectly machine-wound coil, a Fluence core has less distributed capacitance than the _scatterwound_ coil by a factor of 10x.



The distributed capacitance in the scatter wound PUs has a very different behaviour than the Fluence PCB based design. It's neither better nor worse, just different. Fishman has a more controlled and well-defined system, but physics is physics and their products also have a exactly one fixed frequency response - just like any other PU on the market. The EQs added internally can as well be added in the AxeFX/Kemper/Helix of the guitarist. Apart from these objective facts, I have a Fluence set in one guitar and it's not any clearer, more defined or clearer with chords than other good passive PUs. Just a matter of preference/taste.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

Lemonbaby said:


> The distributed capacitance in the scatter wound PUs has a very different behaviour than the Fluence PCB based design. It's neither better nor worse, just different. Fishman has a more controlled and well-defined system, but physics is physics and their products also have a exactly one fixed frequency response - just like any other PU on the market. The EQs added internally can as well be added in the AxeFX/Kemper/Helix of the guitarist. Apart from these objective facts, I have a Fluence set in one guitar and it's not any clearer, more defined or clearer with chords than other good passive PUs. Just a matter of preference/taste.



Hmm...that is interesting. So you're saying that the different preamp EQ settings in a Fluence pickup are static? I thought they are kind of dynamic, i.e. a function in the input signal, so the pickup changes character and not just tonality when you change voices. I'm no expert though, so it'd be great to hear from one.


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## juka

Of all the countless NAMM reports on youtube I didn't find a single one on Fishman. Did I miss something?
Feel free to post a link if you've found one.


----------



## MiPwnYew

juka said:


> Of all the countless NAMM reports on youtube I didn't find a single one on Fishman. Did I miss something?
> Feel free to post a link if you've found one.



Not a report, but here's a Tosin demo (Forgot how to imbed videos  )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY87a7zfUjo


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

MiPwnYew said:


> Not a report, but here's a Tosin demo (Forgot how to imbed videos  )
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY87a7zfUjo



Here:


There's this one also:


----------



## patdavidmusic

Looking forward to hearing proper demos of the single coil sounds, or is it single blade sounds,
I'd love to know more information about the hybrid neck design


----------



## Silence2-38554

Awesome that Ken was working the Fishman booth for NAMM!


----------



## juka

Great! Thanks for the links, guys!

I really hope for in-depth reviews by Fluff or Ken very soon, because all 3 new sigs seem to fit my bill judging from the info we have so far.


----------



## frank falbo

Lemonbaby said:


> The distributed capacitance in the scatter wound PUs has a very different behaviour than the Fluence PCB based design. It's neither better nor worse, just different. Fishman has a more controlled and well-defined system, but physics is physics and their products also have a exactly one fixed frequency response - just like any other PU on the market. The EQs added internally can as well be added in the AxeFX/Kemper/Helix of the guitarist. Apart from these objective facts, I have a Fluence set in one guitar and it's not any clearer, more defined or clearer with chords than other good passive PUs. Just a matter of preference/taste.


The distributed capacitance is just one little stat in isolation. As for the "fixed" frequency response, I'm not sure I am understanding correctly, but they all have 2 different response curves per pickup. If you mean "fixed" like a hard EQ curve, It's not an EQ curve. There is resonance involved, which means the sound of the pickup is sensitive to what you're playing; what the magnetic field is doing. What I mean is, its not the same as anything you can do in post-processing. Sure, you can roll off highs and/or lows, but the voicing section in Fluence is interactive with the pickup coil. 

Everyone is different and everyone plays differently, so I don't challenge you on what you've noticed when you play them. But many other players have noticed the note definition and chord clarity immediately and inarguably. All that means is their playing style, and/or their rig revealed it. But honestly you're the first person I've heard say that the clarity has not been noticeable. Again I don't mean this as a challenge to your personal experience, just clarifying what I can.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

The Will Adler set at 4m20s sounds fierce!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Just a funny observation, in Winter NAMM 2016, Tosin demoed Pegasus/Sentient at SD booth. Will Adler was also an SD artist using JB/Distortion/59 pickups. So in one year, or less, SD lost 2 major artists to Fishman! I thought that EMG is the one company that should be pissing its proverbial pants here .


----------



## frank falbo

If you have a new technology that actually _does_ something different/better, there will be a certain percentage of artists who recognize it. There will also be a percentage of artists who do not connect with it because it _is_ different. We didn't come out with this technology to invalidate prior designs, rather to add to it....and because it had to be done...


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ and I'm glad you did  I own a Fluence modern-7 and it sounds awesome! Can you tell us when to expect to see Tosin's model available at online stores?


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

frank falbo said:


> If you have a new technology that actually _does_ something different/better, there will be a certain percentage of artists who recognize it. There will also be a percentage of artists who do not connect with it because it _is_ different. We didn't come out with this technology to invalidate prior designs, rather to add to it....and because it had to be done...



Spot on.
This industry may indeed contain the most highest percentage of cork sniffery there is.

Active pickups as a concept were already a hard sell initially back in the late 70's/early 80's, but then when certain artists embraced it, the concept took off like wildfire.

I think Fishman's method may produce the highest degree of consistency from pickup to pickup, which is ideal for folks who prefer the same sound on each axe, as close as one can get at least.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

The product page is up: http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/tosin-abasi-signature-pickup-set/

I would have been happier to see a white color option as well as a humbucker design (with side tabs) for the 7-string.


----------



## Keel

Weird how they don't come in white but the ones in tosins black guitar are white?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tosin a/bing the ionizers vs the fluence: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_xnd_DqA3/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en
BKP vs Fluence: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_85lZDQF1/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en


----------



## patdavidmusic

KnightBrolaire said:


> Tosin a/bing the ionizers vs the fluence:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_xnd_DqA3/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en
> BKP vs Fluence:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_85lZDQF1/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en



Pretty amazing difference just through the phone, i'm going to order, my first fluence set this month, I just have to work out which ones! 

It would be amazing to run comparisons (take that with a grain of salt), with each set


----------



## Quiet Coil

KnightBrolaire said:


> Tosin a/bing the ionizers vs the fluence:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_xnd_DqA3/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en
> BKP vs Fluence:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BP_85lZDQF1/?taken-by=tosinabasi&hl=en



Thanks for sharing! I actually like the Ionizers better on the clean test but the Fluence (Fluences?) kill it on the slap test. And glad to see we might get white after all!


----------



## Mathemagician

Hoping to see gold added as a standard color to most of these.


----------



## Derek Ageless

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these sets, but I need to hear some high quality demo videos with some 8 string models. The clips from Tosin's instagram were great, but I primarily play death metal and Meshuggah riffs on my 8 strings, so I'm curious as to how they sound in that context.

Basically, they can have my money as soon as they can pump out some new youtube clips.


----------



## endmysuffering

I want a set of them so badly but I don't think they'll fit without some routing.


----------



## runbirdman

I got a chance to try out a Buz-7. It was my first foray into the Fluence line but I was really impressed. I went home and ordered two sets of the Moderns to replace the EMGs in my Eclipse and the Juggernauts in my Horizon. Can't wait to get them delivered and wired up.


----------



## patdavidmusic

runbirdman said:


> I got a chance to try out a Buz-7. It was my first foray into the Fluence line but I was really impressed. I went home and ordered two sets of the Moderns to replace the EMGs in my Eclipse and the Juggernauts in my Horizon. Can't wait to get them delivered and wired up.



Love it!
I have to order mine as there's no way i have found to try them out in oz,
looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts


----------



## narad

runbirdman said:


> I got a chance to try out a Buz-7. It was my first foray into the Fluence line but I was really impressed. I went home and ordered two sets of the Moderns to replace the EMGs in my Eclipse and the Juggernauts in my Horizon. Can't wait to get them delivered and wired up.



What types of EMGs are you replacing?


----------



## runbirdman

narad said:


> What types of EMGs are you replacing?



It's a set of 81s. The guy who had the guitar before me replaced the 60 in the neck with an 81. I was going to go 57/66 but I really enjoyed the Fluences and I got a great deal on the two sets.


----------



## Lionsden

I'd say they're fixing it to 2-3 options so they can capitalize as much as possible on their R&D investments. I'm assuming it took some years and brilliant (well paid) engineers to make it happen so they'll roll it out in steps which will eventually become a user defined pickup as you suggested which will be one huge and revolutionary development


----------



## Lionsden

I have the Devin Townsend set in my Delli'sola and the Fluence pups are AMAZING!!!! My favorite bridge pickup to date as a matter of fact and I've owned a handful of bkp.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Lionsden said:


> I have the Devin Townsend set in my Delli'sola and the Fluence pups are AMAZING!!!! My favorite bridge pickup to date as a matter of fact and I've owned a handful of bkp.



Awesome looking guitar dude, clips with the devin set?


----------



## narad

Hmm, the people's support is slowly starting to sway me


----------



## runbirdman

narad said:


> Hmm, the people's support is slowly starting to sway me



I thought they may have only been a product of an efficient marketing machine until I tried them. There really is something special about them. I was only.able to play with them for about 30 minutes but I was able to coax a wide range of tones out of them by switching between the voices.

The Buz-7 only had the single push/ pull and the Steph Carpenter set. I wish I could have tried one wired for coil splits and/ or the HF tilt. My plan is to wire both my guitars for two push pulls: one for voice and one for coil split.


----------



## gfactor

Holy cow those a/b examples are night and day, was not ready for that. I've never been too keen on actives but maybe these are worth shot. I hope they make a passive-sized 8 sting set though.


----------



## kirill1988

in good traditional of Tosin


----------



## MrYakob

Is anyone selling these yet? The only place I could find them even listed is B&H oddly enough... Really eager to try them out for myself

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1313507-REG/fishman_prfms8ta2_fluence_tosin_abasi_8.html


----------



## VigilSerus

I need a white 7 version of these so bad.


----------



## Tripped1

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Spot on.
> This industry may indeed contain the most highest percentage of cork sniffery there is.



You have obviously never dealt with cyclists

:edit

On topic I am intrigued here, Tosin's clips seem to back the idea that they are...well amazing...and Will's sigs with the active and passive tones.

Holy crap, I need to hear these in person.


----------



## Bearilla

MrYakob said:


> Is anyone selling these yet? The only place I could find them even listed is B&H oddly enough... Really eager to try them out for myself
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1313507-REG/fishman_prfms8ta2_fluence_tosin_abasi_8.html



That is the only place I can find them.....


----------



## juka

Search on eBay for a shop called "Don't tell the wife guitars".
Ordered my Townsend sig set there. Great service, great prices.


----------



## SqWark

juka said:


> Search on eBay for a shop called "Don't tell the wife guitars".
> Ordered my Townsend sig set there. Great service, great prices.



Agreed! ^^^

He's a good guy and tends to get the new models in before anyone else does.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Not to completely change this topic in this thread, but i've got a set of the Tosin Fluence 6 stringers coming in the next month, is there any particular demonstrations that people would like to see?

Certainly not particular songs but perhaps tones or a/b's?

-sorry for the double post i posted the last one in the wrong thread-


----------



## narad

I'd just like to hear a good demo with whatever pickups you have in there, primarily distorted tone, and then afterwards. Basically I'm looking for a well-recorded demo that helps illustrates this clarity everyone keeps talking about, and then run through the alt pickup configurations. To me it sounds useful, but not anything that couldn't be accomplished through some EQ tweaking on the usual pickups.


----------



## runbirdman

I ordered a couple sets of EMG 57/66s from Don't Tell the Wife when he was blowing them out last month. Excellent to deal with and if there are any products from Fishman or EMG he doesn't have, he will order it for you and give you the best price around.


----------



## patdavidmusic

narad said:


> I'd just like to hear a good demo with whatever pickups you have in there, primarily distorted tone, and then afterwards. Basically I'm looking for a well-recorded demo that helps illustrates this clarity everyone keeps talking about, and then run through the alt pickup configurations. To me it sounds useful, but not anything that couldn't be accomplished through some EQ tweaking on the usual pickups.



No problem at all, done and done and done
I'll also be trying to get my hands on some EMG's but they will be in other guitars so take that with a grain of salt in the a/b's


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Where's the wiring that shows use of the 3db boost option to match a neck sc with a bridge humbucker?
http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/fluence-single-width-pickups-for-hss-hsh-hs/


----------



## patdavidmusic

Here's Tosin's demo pretty amazing!
https://youtu.be/az4fCS09RaQ


----------



## nistley

patdavidmusic said:


> Here's Tosin's demo pretty amazing!
> https://youtu.be/az4fCS09RaQ



It sure is, I enjoyed the music, playing, and videography so much I really could not pay attention to the pickups sound


----------



## narad

Tosin's sig guitar is basically the first instrument I've seen where those Fluence covers look right at home. Pretty snazzy. 

Tonally I thought at points, under gain, the Fluences were pretty strident and not really pleasant sounding, but in a way that worked well in that paricular musical context. Like something that would be good for thrashier / tech death metal sound - like a Dillinger Escape Plan sound. They weren't as rounded or as deep sounding as the DiMarzios, so my take away was that I never preferred the sounds with the KM sig or the Aristides over the Fluences, but the DiMarzios/Fluences were like 50/50 toss-up depending on the song.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

The comparison shows really well how the Fluence pickups offer a much broader frequency response and clarity, which in my opinion only helps with cutting through the mix more easily, using less post processing. It would have been great to hear how the HF tilt effected the sound. Still I think the passives sound slightly more dynamic, in the sense of forth and back movement of volume, where the Fishmans sound more compressed in comparison. I hope they eventually can also nail this aspect in their designs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The only pickups I didn't like in that demo were the dimarzios. Overall the Fluence didn't wow me as much as they did in Tosin's IG clips. The BKP and Duncan were comparable on some of the clips. I actually preferred the Bareknuckle on the point to point clip (rounder high end that fits better in the context of the song). I will say that the fluence had the most clarity on the low end to my ears (like on the Air Chrysalis/Woven Web clips).
Also, is it just me or were the Fishman mixed louder? That or they're just way more compressed.


----------



## Quiet Coil

BearOnGuitar said:


> It would have been great to hear how the HF tilt effected the sound.



I'm 90% certain that nearly all of the artist pickups don't have the HF tilt function (I think the Carpenter set does and that's it). I've been specifically watching for it because the crazy high end presence puts me off a bit (just my weird taste though - I preferred the passive in most of the comparisons in this latest video).


This is from a guy that went nearly all-in and loaded 4 out of 6 guitars with Fluence pickups. One thing I did was swap the neck pickups between a Modern and Classic set from two guitars, reversing the voice selection on the Classics so they were a bit closer to the Modern they were now paired with, I rather like it!


----------



## narad

I was definitely feeling the louder Fishman mix, which was a bit unfair in the shootout. The BKPs were noticeably lower volume pretty much always. Maybe I would have felt they were better if they were the same volume, but as is, they weren't very memorable to me.


----------



## Lasik124

I feel like shootouts this are flawed for two reasons.

One, different guitars.

Two,He likely has his rig EQ'd to his likings with the Fishman. He is then using the same exact EQ on other guitars/pups. Which really may not be the EQ that guitar/pup needs to shine

I don't know. These types of videos do nothing for me, of course the goal in mind is for the one to always trump the others. And he achieved that, they sound a lot better then the others.

But hey that's just my 2 cents.

Very curious to try these pups as they seem like the new hype. I just saw Satchel from Steel Panther using them in their newest video


----------



## Lemons

I thought it was an entirely reasonable effort on Tosins part. I definitely saw the Fluences stand out in the clean and lower gain settings, when it came to higher gain it seemed 50/50 as to which pickup was better in each clip. I might have to invest in a set for my strandberg OS8 seeing as awesome cleans is exactly looking for, and they'll match my "I HEART TOSIN" tattoo really well.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Lemons said:


> I thought it was an entirely reasonable effort on Tosins part. I definitely saw the Fluences stand out in the clean and lower gain settings, when it came to higher gain it seemed 50/50 as to which pickup was better in each clip. I might have to invest in a set for my strandberg OS8 seeing as awesome cleans is exactly looking for, and they'll match my "I HEART TOSIN" tattoo really well.



You know what I felt the same thing, in even the pickups were in the same guitar there would be issues of the performer playing slightly differently, i really liked the demo

i'm keen to hear more clean demos as well,

I've got a strandberg os6 and tosin fishmans coming in the next month just let me know what clean demos you want to hear


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Be sure to post some DIs Pat, really interested in trying them with my own sound.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

The Fleunces definitely had the volume turned up louder in the video's audio mix. Active pickups do have a higher output than passives, but the distorted/overdriven tones weren't louder to the point that it was extremely noticeable like in the clean tones, which is what leads me to believe that the Fluences were turned up louder.

I agree with what most of you guys are saying about it being a 50/50 toss-up between the Fluences and the other pickups when it comes to the distorted/overdriven tones. Nothing memorable compared to the cleans.

The Fluences sound dynamic at points, but they also sound sterile at points to my ear. They do have a bit of that clinical quality to them that is just a characteristic of actives. And with the Tosin set, it seems like there was this fizz around the upper mids that was always present with the distortion/overdrive kicked on. I hear that people have the same complaint about an upper mid fizz with the Carpenter set. (Can any of you guys chirp in on if that fizz is in the same frequencies?)

Am I the only one who thinks that the Schecter KM-II shined in that video?


----------



## patdavidmusic

BearOnGuitar said:


> Be sure to post some DIs Pat, really interested in trying them with my own sound.



Can do 
Just a note my playing will be some what lesser than the Tosin standard, a different league really


----------



## frank falbo

Emperor Guillotine said:


> The Fleunces definitely had the volume turned up louder in the video's audio mix. Active pickups do have a higher output than passives, but the distorted/overdriven tones weren't louder to the point that it was extremely noticeable like in the clean tones, which is what leads me to believe that the Fluences were turned up louder.


Tosin answers someone in the YouTube comments telling them there were absolutely zero changes to the rig or in post. It is not turned louder. 

Disclaimer, we (Fishman) didn't make the video, and I wasn't there.


----------



## setsuna7

Frank, will there be a single coil version for 7&8 strings ?


----------



## frank falbo

Possibly. Munky from Korn (as if there were another Munky) has one, but I think for him, it may up being a single coil in a HB housing. Everything is just a matter of R&D priority, time, money, etc.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

patdavidmusic said:


> Can do
> Just a note my playing will be some what lesser than the Tosin standard, a different league really



Ahh, too bad. Maybe throw in some Steve Vai style shredding then? Just kidding


----------



## MerlinTKD

Any chance of the 8-string version being released in a passive-sized housing? I'm really intrigued, but not enough to route out my guitar!


----------



## Tripped1

Emperor Guillotine said:


> The Fleunces definitely had the volume turned up louder in the video's audio mix. Active pickups do have a higher output than passives, but the distorted/overdriven tones weren't louder to the point that it was extremely noticeable like in the clean tones, which is what leads me to believe that the Fluences were turned up louder.
> 
> I agree with what most of you guys are saying about it being a 50/50 toss-up between the Fluences and the other pickups when it comes to the distorted/overdriven tones. Nothing memorable compared to the cleans.
> 
> The Fluences sound dynamic at points, but they also sound sterile at points to my ear. They do have a bit of that clinical quality to them that is just a characteristic of actives. And with the Tosin set, it seems like there was this fizz around the upper mids that was always present with the distortion/overdrive kicked on. I hear that people have the same complaint about an upper mid fizz with the Carpenter set. (Can any of you guys chirp in on if that fizz is in the same frequencies?)
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that the Schecter KM-II shined in that video?



Well to be fair, Tosin did say that he was looking for clarity across the range at clean to slightly warmed over gain levels, not knock-down-drag-out gain.

Philosophical approach really....and they are his. So clinical may be the name of the game I'm fine with it really.

.....and I should see first hand, I am seeing Animals as Leaders tomorrow night.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Tripped1 said:


> Well to be fair, Tosin did say that he was looking for clarity across the range at clean to slightly warmed over gain levels, not knock-down-drag-out gain.
> 
> Philosophical approach really....and they are his. So clinical may be the name of the game I'm fine with it really.
> 
> .....and I should see first hand, I am seeing Animals as Leaders tomorrow night.



that's awesome dude! Definitely report back, I'll be seeing them as well in two weeks


----------



## Tisca

Emperor Guillotine said:


> ...
> 
> The Fluences sound dynamic at points, but they also sound sterile at points to my ear. They do have a bit of that clinical quality to them that is just a characteristic of actives. And with the Tosin set, it seems like there was this fizz around the upper mids that was always present with the distortion/overdrive kicked on. I hear that people have the same complaint about an upper mid fizz with the Carpenter set. (Can any of you guys chirp in on if that fizz is in the same frequencies?)



I agree with you. This shootout should've been done against other actives. Tosin's playing style is suited towards actives and there's no one else who plays like him. Look at him pose in front of Morgan amps in this video and everywhere else as much as possible. He plays AxeFX. Endorsing gear is a necessary business model if you want to make a living playing guitar but what would he use if no one paid him is what I want to know.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

What a player, that was really enjoying just to watch and forget about it being a pickup demo video. 

While there are some natural inconstancies and the tone is dialled in for the Fluences there is no doubt that those pickups really suit him, the percussive sound when he taps makes the notes pop out so clear. 

The guy had 4 of the biggest guitar pickup manufacturers making him custom pickups so he settled on what suited him the best. Its rare to see musicians of that caliber get genuinely excited about a product.


----------



## MrYakob

Tisca said:


> I agree with you. This shootout should've been done against other actives. Tosin's playing style is suited towards actives and there's no one else who plays like him. *Look at him pose in front of Morgan amps in this video and everywhere else as much as possible. He plays AxeFX.* Endorsing gear is a necessary business model if you want to make a living playing guitar but what would he use if no one paid him is what I want to know.



Tosin switched to playing a Morgan with that giant pedalboard a while back, AFAIK he isn't using the AxeFX live except for maybe European tours where space is a concern for travel.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

MrYakob said:


> Tosin switched to playing a Morgan with that giant pedalboard a while back, AFAIK he isn't using the AxeFX live except for maybe European tours where space is a concern for travel.


Yeah, the new trend in the prog realm nowadays is to ditch your Axe-Fx and get a massive pedalboard with a brain/switcher patch bay system controlling it. Animals As Leaders, Intervals, etc.


----------



## MrYakob

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Yeah, the new trend in the prog realm nowadays is to ditch your Axe-Fx and get a massive pedalboard with a brain/switcher patch bay system controlling it. Animals As Leaders, Intervals, etc.



Funny how it's all kinda cyclical isn't it? Especially from these bands that were such pioneers of the AxeFX movement in that scene. Hell even Misha has that Peavey amp, I guess it's inevitable for gearheads to want more than a self contained unit to tweak to death


----------



## runbirdman

My set of black Fluence Moderns came in today. Everything went smoothly on the install but I had a helluva mess to clean up from the guy who owned the guitar before me. It looked like a rat's nest. Under the neck pickup I found a 1/4" screw with ground wires from the pots soldered to the underside and then drilled flush with the body. 

I went with Vol 1 (push/ pull, coil tap), Vol 2 (push/ pull, voice 1/2), and a master tone in a ESP Eclipse Standard. I had never installed pickups into a guitar with 2 volumes and a master tone and Fishman did not have a wiring diagram for that setup. I ended up using a standard 2 vol/ 1 tone wiring diagram from guitarelectronics.com and then used Fishman's diagrams to install the coil taps and voice selector.

I only got to actually play the guitar for 20 minutes or so before I had to leave for work but I was wowed at how versatile the pickups are without sacrificing anything I loved about the EMGs that were in it. Voice 1 is very 81'ish in the bridge and 85'ish in the neck. It's pretty cool to coil tap an EMG sounding pickup Voice 2 sounds very SH-6'ish.

I haven't yet gotten a the opportunity to dig into the amplifier EQ but so far I really like the results from my fairly standard active and passive patches I normally run. I will try to post a more in depth review once I've had the chance to really put the pickups through the paces.






Sorry the guitar is so dirty, I had literally gotten done stringing it up 5 minutes before I shot this with my phone.


----------



## patdavidmusic

They look great, thanks for posting looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

MrYakob said:


> Funny how it's all kinda cyclical isn't it? Especially from these bands that were such pioneers of the AxeFX movement in that scene. Hell even Misha has that Peavey amp, I guess it's inevitable for gearheads to want more than a self contained unit to tweak to death


Man, you're right. Devin Townsend is using a big pedalboard and Mesa heads again now. Petrucci is integrating more and more analog gear back into his rig.

As far as Misha and his new Peavey amp, I bet we won't see him ever use the thing aside from the occasional Instagram clip to plug the product.


----------



## CapnForsaggio

Emperor Guillotine said:


> As far as Misha and his new Peavey amp, I bet we won't see him ever use the thing aside from the occasional Instagram clip to plug the product.



I fell like that is unfair. Lots of new amps come and go, but this Peavey was refreshing for a few reasons. It is the first time I have looked at a new amp and said to myself, 'wow, great new features that I would USE.'

I'm not a purifury fan, but I could absolutely see me picking up this amp.

Great work, Misha.

Full disclosure: I love Peavey high [email protected]!


----------



## lewis

CapnForsaggio said:


> I fell like that is unfair. Lots of new amps come and go, but this Peavey was refreshing for a few reasons. It is the first time I have looked at a new amp and said to myself, 'wow, great new features that I would USE.'
> 
> I'm not a purifury fan, but I could absolutely see me picking up this amp.
> 
> Great work, Misha.
> 
> Full disclosure: I love Peavey high [email protected]!



this is absolute spot on. Lets not forget that its not actually a signature head, but more he happened to help design a modern amp for the modern player so really not seeing him with one 24/7 is expected.

Its features are pretty damn amazing and also just the fact its along the lines of a modded 5150 but with an amazing clean channel, is enough for alot to be wowed. Let alone what else it has going for it.

People are too quick to knock stuff with an artists name attached. Like really, if some one as "in the know" as Misha (and Im talking from a gear/technical perspective, not popularity) helps an Amp company as massive as Peavey, create a new/modern product, then I have complete faith in the finished product and expect it to hit a home run.

Why are people complaining again?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> this is absolute spot on. Lets not forget that its not actually a signature head, but more he happened to help design a modern amp for the modern player so really not seeing him with one 24/7 is expected.
> 
> Its features are pretty damn amazing and also just the fact its along the lines of a modded 5150 but with an amazing clean channel, is enough for alot to be wowed. Let alone what else it has going for it.
> 
> People are too quick to knock stuff with an artists name attached. Like really, if some one as "in the know" as Misha (and Im talking from a gear/technical perspective, not popularity) helps an Amp company as massive as Peavey, create a new/modern product, then I have complete faith in the finished product and expect it to hit a home run.
> 
> Why are people complaining again?


I think some people are complaining because he only comes onto the forum to plug his own products anymore. He did it with the juggs, he did it with the protone pedal, his jackson guitars and also with the horizon devices pedal. Some people are a little bit wary due to that, especially after the mess with protone.


----------



## marcwormjim

I'm wary of anyone who looks like Boss Nass. At one NAMM, he asked me if I'd seen Mark. I pointed to my NAMM badge, which said "Marc." Then he stared at me. He was a really nice guy.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

marcwormjim said:


> I'm wary of anyone who looks like Boss Nass.


----------



## Tripped1

patdavidmusic said:


> that's awesome dude! Definitely report back, I'll be seeing them as well in two weeks



Ok so saw AAL last night.

Gear breakdown, both Javier and Tosin were playing Mesa daul recs, Javier also had an Ampeg....yes Ampeg, on his side of the stage, I have no idea if he was running it parallel or swapping between the two.

Guitars

Tosin mainly a pair of his 8 string Ibanezs one with standard dots and white fluences, and the the one with the swept fret pattern and black fleunces other than that one song was played on the Strandbergs, one with piezo (I assume no visible pickups or sound holes) thin-line acoustic/electic.


Javier was using a set of LTDs other than the aforementioned song they were both playing Strands.

Being Tokyo Quattro isn't very large, sounds was decent if a bit muddy, and live anyway Tosin's guitars definitely had lot of cut, and awesome clarity, specially with all of the slapping and popping he tends to do, how much of the difference in tones between Tosin and Javier is baked in a don't know. I don't follow AAL that closely. The size of the room I am pretty sure they could have turned off the PA and there was enough amp on the stage that it likely would have sounded better particularly as hard as Matt plays on the kit. The PA was a little muddy to me, and we set up shop right in front of the sound booth. 

On a side note, Nick Johnston was the opening act, which surprised me, it was mentioned no where that he was even playing (though when ordering tickets in Japanese its entirely possible I missed it) that dude can make a Schector strat-copy sing.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

New demo from NAMM:


----------



## eloann

Can one just swap different Fluence pickups with the solderless connectors ? I May eventually purchase a Fluence equipped guitar but not sure the stock model would be the best fit for me


----------



## juka

eloann said:


> Can one just swap different Fluence pickups with the solderless connectors ? I May eventually purchase a Fluence equipped guitar but not sure the stock model would be the best fit for me



Yes, we can


----------



## Chisorg1570

A friend lf mine got his Tosin Abasi fluences on saturday... we installed them on his Schecter C1 Platinum and he played that night with that guitar... amazing sound... great heavy distortion on voice 1, nice crunchy and dinamic distortion on voice 2 and amazing cleans on voice 3!


----------



## setsuna7

frank falbo said:


> Possibly. Munky from Korn (as if there were another Munky) has one, but I think for him, it may up being a single coil in a HB housing. Everything is just a matter of R&D priority, time, money, etc.



If that's the case Frank(regarding the single coil 7),can I pair the modern 7 with "other active pickups' single coil say, an EMG SA 7? Thanks in advance


----------



## frank falbo

eloann said:


> Can one just swap different Fluence pickups with the solderless connectors ? I May eventually purchase a Fluence equipped guitar but not sure the stock model would be the best fit for me



Yes you can just plug in Fluence, but you'll have only one voice. But we also give you jumpers, so that you could hardwire it to Voice 2 if you want. That means if you just want to hear what both Voices sound like, you can listen to V1, then loosen the strings, pop the pickup out, put the jumper on, and listen to V2. Same would be true for the HF Tilt and/or the -6dB like on the Moderns.


----------



## lewis

anyone know how the Fishman rechargeable battery packs would connect with the EMG solderless system?


----------



## frank falbo

Not solderlessly, but you can just snip the +, -, and ground leads and twist/solder them together, or if you have one of their blocks with the screw terminals on them, then you can strip and insert into their screw terminals.


----------



## lewis

frank falbo said:


> Not solderlessly, *but you can just snip the +, -, and ground leads and twist/solder them together*, or if you have one of their blocks with the screw terminals on them, then you can strip and insert into their screw terminals.



ah thats what I assumed. Thanks for the clarification Frank.
Im aiming to pick up the strat battery pack.


----------



## frank falbo

You should love it. It delivers a solid 9v all the way down too. With a 9v battery it's hard to tell when you're getting down to ~8v. The dynamics start to become more limited but everything still works. These are smart power, and they're maintaining the full 9v.


----------



## Glades

Fishman needs to put more work on their wiring diagrams. Everybody is doing their own pickup installs these days, and less and less people pay techs big money to do the installs. I think, to further their business, they need to do the installation more accessible to customers by providing wiring diagrams for more layouts. Their website is a bit limited right now. I could totally see people deciding to not make the purchase based on the lack of information.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Glades said:


> Fishman needs to put more work on their wiring diagrams. Everybody is doing their own pickup installs these days, and less and less people pay techs big money to do the installs. I think, to further their business, they need to do the installation more accessible to customers by providing wiring diagrams for more layouts. Their website is a bit limited right now. I could totally see people deciding to not make the purchase based on the lack of information.



+1000. I bought the KSE set like 2 weeks ago and still haven't installed them. I always wire with 2 volumes and no tone + I also wanted the volumes to switch voices 1, 2 and have a DPDT switch for voice 3. I think I finally figured it out, but the included diagrams didn't help much. 

I'm no expert on wiring, so take what I said with a grain of salt. As a point of reference, EMG solderless installation was always a breeze for me, done it several times with no issues or that much effort researching wiring setup.


----------



## mnemonic

Yeah they really ought to use a solderless system like EMG's use. They're quick connect pickups, so I guess they're half way there. 

Honestly the massive undertaking (for me anyway) that would be wiring up a guitar with the push/pulls is mainly what's stopping me from ordering. That, and I drag my feet on any purchases over, like, £100.


----------



## lewis

mnemonic said:


> Yeah they really ought to use a solderless system like EMG's use. They're quick connect pickups, so I guess they're half way there.
> 
> Honestly the massive undertaking (for me anyway) that would be wiring up a guitar with the push/pulls is mainly what's stopping me from ordering. *That, and I drag my feet on any purchases over, like, £100*.



Im so guilty of this. Especially for "just pickups". I mean Ive bought whole guitars that are really quite solid for those prices. Paying like £250 for a set of Bareknuckles just seems scandoulous to me and really out of principal I subconsciously put off buying them. Its probably why in near 15 years of playing now, ive only bought new pickups twice and 1 second hand model once.
the rest of the time ive made do with stocks


----------



## mnemonic

I'm just kinda stingy, I do it for everything haha.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Maybe I should post about it in a separate thread, but I think this should be useful for anyone trying to wire the Tosin set as well. This is my best "guess" to how the wiring would be for the KSE set with:
- Separate volume per pickup, no tone control, 3-way blade switch.
- Each volume controls voice 1,2 independently for designated pickup, via push/pull.
- Voice 3 for both pickups is controlled by a mini toggle (DPDT switch).

Questions I have: 
1. Is the schematic correct? Specially for connecting volumes to 3-way switch?
2. Since I have no tone controls, do I need to install the caps on the volumes, or do I need different value caps? Or none at all? 

Thanks.


----------



## oversteve

this one is way beyond incorrect 

literally it will be similar to this one 
https://docs.google.com/gview?embed....com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2BO_3G_2V.pdf

the only things to add are: 
- 6 pin push pull switches (wire them like in your wiring, that part is correct, except that you might need to solder the green and orange wires to the topmost respective pins of the pp switches depending on when you want your voice 2 options enabled - on pott pushed or 
pulled)
- additional switch for voice 3 (that one is basically correct except that you need both blue and yellow wires wired to separate pins, one on the left and one on the right)
- if you will be using a blade switch then you can wire it like here (2 wires going from the pots to the switch and 1 going from the switch to the jack and that's it)
https://docs.google.com/gview?embed...n.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2H_3B_2V.pdf

oh, and you don;t need caps at all


----------



## lewis

im so glad companies are going quick connect/solderless.

Looking at these wire schematics, and seeing what needs to be connected up by soldering etc and a knowledge of what goes where, is just way over my head. I kind of hate the notion that to change something as simple as guitar pickups, I feel like I need a masters degree in the appropriate relevant subject, to pull it off.

Hip Hip Hooray for quick connect.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

oversteve said:


> this one is way beyond incorrect
> 
> literally it will be similar to this one
> https://docs.google.com/gview?embed....com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2BO_3G_2V.pdf
> 
> the only things to add are:
> - 6 pin push pull switches (wire them like in your wiring, that part is correct, except that you might need to solder the green and orange wires to the topmost respective pins of the pp switches depending on when you want your voice 2 options enabled - on pott pushed or
> pulled)
> - additional switch for voice 3 (that one is basically correct except that you need both blue and yellow wires wired to separate pins, one on the left and one on the right)
> - if you will be using a blade switch then you can wire it like here (2 wires going from the pots to the switch and 1 going from the switch to the jack and that's it)
> https://docs.google.com/gview?embed...n.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2H_3B_2V.pdf
> 
> oh, and you don;t need caps at all




Thanks Steve, I greatly appreciate your feedback & I'll look into it. I don't mind this initial schematic being way off , but it's kind of confusing for me since what I have is very close to the wiring diagram that shipped with the pickup set, look here, 2nd page:
https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/514-300-153_r0-KSE-Install-Guide-Fluence_WEB.pdf

I think it'd be great if someone from Fishman could chime in. I'll make a separate thread, and see how it goes.

*[EDIT]* New thread (for wiring question) created here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=320724


----------



## oversteve

Well, that schematic was for volume+tone which are connected in series, when you put 2 volumes they go in parallel and that's why it is completely different


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

oversteve said:


> Well, that schematic was for volume+tone which are connected in series, when you put 2 volumes they go in parallel and that's why it is completely different



Ok, I totally get that, but does this also mean the wiring for the 3-way blade switch had to change that much (compared to the SD schematic)?


----------



## oversteve

Yup, it should look exactly like sd, the idea is when you have one master volume the white signal wires from pickups first go to switch and then the signal goes to the master volume, but when you have separate volumes then the signal wire from pups first goes to separate volume pots and then to switch. 

Overall it's no big science and it's pretty much building a signal route from your pickup to the output jack, if you understand how it works and how the pickup selector operates then building schemes like this is a piece of cake


----------



## MerlinTKD

This was posted over in the AAL megathread, but it shows off the new Fluences really well! MAN they sound good!


----------



## Glades

Anybody get their hands on the 7 string version yet to try them out? I can't wait for some reviews!


----------



## Funz

Need passive routes on all models.


----------



## MerlinTKD

Funz said:


> Need passive routes on all models.



Agreed, I'm really tempted but they wont fit my guitar &#128546;


----------



## Glades

MerlinTKD said:


> Agreed, I'm really tempted but they wont fit my guitar &#55357;&#56866;



Soapbars are a lot more versatile than covered passives. Not everybody has the same angle on the pickups, in the age of the fanned fret guitar. With 6-7-8 soapbars, you can cover just about every angle of fan. Something that is much more difficult with covered passives.

Also soapbars look cooler.

And the soapbar rout is a cheap and easy process.


----------



## Cheap

does anyone know if the signature fishman pickups can be ordered in different covers? i'm looking to put together an alternate pickguard for my strat and it'd kill me to be stuck putting black bricks into an aged mint guard haha


----------



## nistley

Yeah, I really hope non-soapbar humbucker shapes will become available at some point. I hate the soapbars and only one of my multiple guitars has active routes.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

nistley said:


> Yeah, I really hope non-soapbar humbucker shapes will become available at some point. I hate the soapbars and only one of my multiple guitars has active routes.




I agree, and I blame EMG for starting this trend when they should have retained some visual continuity in designing 7 string pickups.

Thankfully, they offer a passive look now.


----------



## Glades

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> I agree, and I blame EMG for starting this trend when they should have retained some visual continuity in designing 7 string pickups.
> 
> Thankfully, they offer a passive look now.



I prefer the look of soapbars. To me they look X100000 better than the covered passive design.


----------



## Richter

Nice review, no lead samples though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QugRvLTtI7Y


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Richter said:


> Nice review, no lead samples though




Nice review, thanks for sharing!

*EDIT: *Video comments have links to DI files!!!!


----------



## Cheap

Update: Heard from Fishman re: colors for the Tosin set--looks like they're only available in black for the 'rest of us' for now. hopefully they'll add a chrome option. at this point tho my curiosity might trump my ocd for color uniformity..


----------



## frank falbo

Soapbars are always black plastic. It's the passive size 7's that can be made with the metal tops. We're working on those. Tosin's magnetic structure is different than the rest, the neck pickup has Alnico pole pieces like a Strat/Tele in one coil and a blade magnet in the other. No bottom magnet. So we need jigs, fixtures, etc....


----------



## Quiet Coil

frank falbo said:


> Soapbars are always black plastic.



Unless they're 7-string Modern soap bars. Just sayin'.


----------



## frank falbo

No, what I'm saying is that in the 8-string and 7-string "soapbar" size, which refers to the rectangular shell that has no mounting ears (tabs) but rather, it has recessed through-holes (also known as the bass pickup sizes) those only come in black plastic. 

Then, when I referred to the "passive sized 7's" That is usually not called a "soapbar". It's the smaller shell, with the two mounting tabs that extend out on either side of the pickup. Those are made with metal tops, so when the Tosins become available in that size, there will be some colors.


----------



## Quiet Coil

frank falbo said:


> No, what I'm saying is that in the 8-string and 7-string "soapbar" size, which refers to the rectangular shell that has no mounting ears (tabs) but rather, it has recessed through-holes (also known as the bass pickup sizes) those only come in black plastic.
> 
> Then, when I referred to the "passive sized 7's" That is usually not called a "soapbar". It's the smaller shell, with the two mounting tabs that extend out on either side of the pickup. Those are made with metal tops, so when the Tosins become available in that size, there will be some colors.



Wasn't arguing about "no metal soap bars", just being snarky over the 7 string soap bar Moderns being available in white and not the 8's.


----------



## Glades

I think Fishman needs to spend a little less time developing new product and a little more time taking care of their customers. Just saying ...


----------



## frank falbo

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Wasn't arguing about "no metal soap bars", just being snarky over the 7 string soap bar Moderns being available in white and not the 8's.



Ah...Understood. I thought you meant colors like nickel/gold/black nickel. AND I kinda forgot about the white simultaneously.


----------



## frank falbo

Glades said:


> I think Fishman needs to spend a little less time developing new product and a little more time taking care of their customers. Just saying ...



Is there an additional incident aside from the one where you called them and asked for wiring diagram help? Are there other things that I should be made aware of or was that the big one? Remember I'm not at headquarters and I'm on the R&D side, but I'm happy to listen to any other issues and try to help wherever I can.


----------



## Quiet Coil

frank falbo said:


> Ah...Understood. I thought you meant colors like nickel/gold/black nickel. AND I kinda forgot about the white simultaneously.



I kinda figured.  You tell me, white or black (original EMG set on the right)?


----------



## frank falbo

I like the black, but its only because I would like the white IF the hardware was chrome and the knobs were white. That's a greater looking paint job either way though.


----------



## juka

frank falbo said:


> Is there an additional incident aside from the one where you called them and asked for wiring diagram help? Are there other things that I should be made aware of or was that the big one? Remember I'm not at headquarters and I'm on the R&D side, but I'm happy to listen to any other issues and try to help wherever I can.



Remember, you were asking for it ;-)
I contacted Fishman support about wiring diagrams twice and it was always the copy&paste answer "ask a qualified guitar repairman". 
It's not that I couldn't figure it out on my own in the end as over 30 years setting up and modifying my own guitars made me pretty "qualified", it's just the fact that when you contact EMG they offer you tons of wiring diagrams and with DiMarzio I even received wiring diagrams drawn by Steve Blucher himself for my specific needs several times. 

Don't get me wrong I like my Fishman Fluence, but support wise they still have a long way to go. Premium prices require premium support, too


----------



## Lemonbaby

The Fluence PUs are wired like any other 2-wire HB. The additional switching features for sound shaping are shown in the diagrams on the Fishman website.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

If Fishman really wanted people's money, they would be putting out passive-sized 8-string pickups and offer a passive-sized option for 7-string/8-string sets like the Tosin Abasi signature set. Just saying. It sucks that I cannot try their pickups because of my choice in guitar (which does not have soapbar routing) being the one thing that is prohibiting me. And I'm not going to cut into the thing just to test out pickups to determine if I like them or not.


----------



## frank falbo

It's the same as with Duncan. I pushed hard for passive sized 7 string right out of the gate. I had the passive sized 7 blackouts available from day one. Then maybe 5 years later EMG did it? It's a tooling expense that has to be justified, and I justified it. 

So with Fishman, I had the same conversations. And without sharing any confidential information I was able to tell them "In my opinion, it is very important to have passive sized 7's on day one." That, plus the proverbial wink and nod were enough. 

Passive sized 7's have over 25 years of install base, back to the UV's and 540S7. The 8 string revolution has more soapbars in it per capita, AND is a much smaller market. That doesn't mean we won't do it, just that you have to set an order of priority, and honestly tooling for passive sized 8's will never pay back on paper, we will have just done it because we want to provide for you guys. 

On to the Tosin set: I can't remember if I broke it down like this yet, forgive me if I'm repeating. The Tosin neck pickup has a totally different and unique magnetic circuit. The neck-side coil, the one he splits to when on neck-only, is the one he says "can we get this Tele neck tone?" And of course I said yeah. So it has 6/7/8 individual Alnico pole pieces in the neck-side coil, and the other coil has the other Alnico bar magnet is vertical _inside_ the bridge-side coil. Then there's nothing connecting the two across the bottom. It's a more open sound as a humbucker, and he uses the other bar coil when combining with the bridge for that in-between tone. ALL THIS TO SAY...we needed some extra tooling to get all that to fit (along with three voices) into the housing. It's physically different than all the rest. Therein lies the delayed release of the passive sized Tosin pickup. 

As for wiring diagram issues, Duncan used to sometimes take the time to draw out custom diagrams, and sometimes they'd recommend a tech instead. But they also had libraries of diagrams made over a period of decades. The one fundamental understanding that should help with Fluence is that the Hot/ground/battery is the same as any other active pickup. The other switching options are pretty much all done internally and all you have to do is take that wire to ground to make it happen, which you can do any way you like. Automatic on a superswitch, or on a push/pull, mini toggle, whatevs. But I hear you two guys and it will be part of continuous improvement.


----------



## Silence2-38554

Just wanted to point out a bit of confusion in the Tosin set's install guide. On page 2, it states Voice 2 is the default & to pull for Voice 1. But then if you go to the diagram it's referring to on page 5, it states the opposite (pull for humbucker voice 2), implying that Voice 1 is the default. 

Please clarify


----------



## frank falbo

Thank you. I'll check to see when I get the chance. But usually what we do is provide a standard wiring diagram, like the normal way to wire them. Then, we provide the artist's own chosen way to wire them. Like in Devin's case it's one switch that toggles V1, V2, then V2 single coil. But if I were putting it in my guitar I would just have a separate coil split switch, and Voice switch. 

In Tosin's case I believe he prefers Voice 2 as the default Voice when the push pull is down. So it's possible that what you're seeing is the difference between the standard diagram and Tosin's diagram. But I'll check. 

It's user's choice anyway, solely dependent upon which pins you put the Voice and the ground wire on the push pull.

Edit: It seems correct to me. On the first diagram the Voice wires are on the other side of the push pull. 
https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/..._r0-Tosin-Abasi-Install-Guide-Fluence-WEB.pdf


----------



## Silence2-38554

Yep, you're totally right. The wording of 

"1. Plan the installation. Weve included a wiring diagram from Tosins signature Ibanez guitar along with two additional diagrams." 

made it sound like Tosin's diagram was listed first. It is cool to know that the only thing that needs to be changed to determine which voice is default is the position of the orange & green wires on the push/pull.

Reading the fine print at the upper left of each diagram clears things up. Thanks!

On another note, can you say if / when we can expect metal cover finish options for the soapbars? I would LOVE a 7 string set of these in the black nickel finish!!


----------



## congalocke

Frank,
Is there any chance for a seven string Devin Townsend sig pickup coming out? Just wanted to say how exciting it is what you guyz are doing. The pickups sound awesomes!!!


----------



## Glades

I am currently enjoying my EMGs. When Fishman decides to come down from the fart cloud they live on and tend to their customers, I'll try their product.


----------



## Drew

Glades said:


> Soapbars are a lot more versatile than covered passives. Not everybody has the same angle on the pickups, in the age of the fanned fret guitar. With 6-7-8 soapbars, you can cover just about every angle of fan. Something that is much more difficult with covered passives.
> 
> Also soapbars look cooler.
> 
> And the soapbar rout is a cheap and easy process.



Wait a second. After a solid decade of people bitching about EMG only making seven string pickups in an existing "soapbar" bass pickup housing, people are now complaing that Fishman is only making "normal" sized seven string humbuckers? 

Good lord. What have we come to?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Drew said:


> Wait a second. After a solid decade of people bitching about EMG only making seven string pickups in an existing "soapbar" bass pickup housing, people are now complaing that Fishman is only making "normal" sized seven string humbuckers?
> 
> Good lord. What have we come to?


^this.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ Not really. EMG didn't have an established active pickup company to dethrone, their obstruction back in the day to being used by more 7-string guitarists was that they did not offer passive routes. For Fishman Fluence to dominate the active market, which imho should be the easier market to target, they need to offer soapbar format, if only to replace all those terrible 81-7's in the wild.

For a company coming this late to the game, I don't think Fishman can afford offering pickups for certain routes but not the others. They have to offer at least 6, 7 string versions, as well as passive/soapbar route options, on all their lineup.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Super bummed right now. The KSE set isn't going to be available in seven-string is it?


----------



## Triple-J

Fishman made an announcement at Summer NAMM and the KSE set is £429 the Willie Adler sig set is £469 and the Tosin Abasi sig set is £429 (6 string) £449 (7 string )and £469 (8 string) so yeah they're definitely to rich for my broke ass.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/summ...-will-adler-killswitch-engage-and-tosin-abasi


----------



## Blytheryn

Triple-J said:


> Fishman made an announcement at Summer NAMM and the KSE set is £429 the Willie Adler sig set is £469 and the Tosin Abasi sig set is £429 (6 string) £449 (7 string )and £469 (8 string) so yeah they're definitely to rich for my broke ass.
> 
> http://www.musicradar.com/news/summ...-will-adler-killswitch-engage-and-tosin-abasi



Uh... wow.


----------



## narad

Nooo way. There's gotta be something off there.


----------



## NosralTserrof

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XHLF5N4/?tag=sevenstringorg-20

Found these. Looks to be a "standard" price of around $260 USD.


----------



## Blytheryn

narad said:


> Nooo way. There's gotta be something off there.


 One pair of Fishmans or almost 2-3 sets of Duncans? Yeah, something's wrong there unless these pickups are straight up unobtainium.


----------



## Triple-J

narad said:


> Nooo way. There's gotta be something off there.



I'm guessing those prices are RRP so in reality they may end up 10-20% cheaper once they hit stores but the standard Fishman pickups sell for £270-290 a pair and seven string sets around £300-320 anyway so I think they're probably right.


----------



## narad

Well if that is really the case then I understand everyone switching now: £429 - £270-290 -> Tosin $$$


----------



## frank falbo

All Fluence are pretty normally priced, so if they're showing up in certain markets way different than other pickups then something is either off with the distribution, or there's an error, etc.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Well, the Fishman Fluence sets are $40-70 more expensive than 'similar' SD & EMG active sets. I'm comparing sale prices from MF here, for example:
Modern Fluence 7-string set is *$249* ......vs...... Duncan BO AHB-1 7-string set which goes for *$199*.
Fluence Abasi 6-string set is *$259* .........vs...... Duncan EMTY 6-string set *$219*.
Fluence Abasi 8-string set is *$279* .........vs...... EMG 57/66 8-string *2 x $119 = $238* (price from EMG site).

For me personally, the Fluences are definitely worth the extra money, in the least, you get additional voicings which is a feature that is not offered by other manufacturers. In my own experience, the Fluence sets can be had for cheaper than the advertised price. I use eBay, there's a certain seller who allows buyers to make offers, and he/she usually accepts 12-15% cheaper offers.


----------



## marcwormjim

Great job selling out a guy who deals below MAP.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ I don't believe this seller is doing any thing wrong. MF & GC offer 12-15% coupons almost all the time, and if the coupon does not work online, just give them a call.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Bumping to see if anyone tried these? Curious to see how these compare to the Devin Townsend set. Looking for a set that can go from active tightness to passive PAFyness.


----------



## setsuna7

Bumping this again. Has anyone tried flipping the Tosins? ie; putting the bridge in the neck and vice versa. Wanna try this on my next string change. Just wondering if anyone had tried it first.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Bumping to see if anyone tried these? Curious to see how these compare to the Devin Townsend set. Looking for a set that can go from active tightness to passive PAFyness.



I have the six string version. My tosin set sure is brighter than the devins I tried. V1 is a tweaked modern. It does retain the brightness and the definition of Modern V1 but they have loosened the low end a little bit and added some low mids. It sounds fatter yet it cuts through. 

Now V2 is weird for me. It sounds too fat for me under gain. But used in clean or edge of breakup tones, it sounds legit and warm. It doesn't sound as PAF as the Classic V1. So I dont know where it is based off from. 

Neck tones are stellar. Much better than the neck pups on the modern or the classic. Neck on V1 is just petrucci vibes when you do legatos and fast shredding.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

V2 sounds like the V2 of the KSE set I had. Thick and almost wooly under gain, but perfect for cleans. 

And yeah, I remember reading your impressions, which is why I decided to avoid the Tosin set. I like the tighter low end of the Moderns and KsE set.


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## MASS DEFECT

lol i didnt realize the bump was from a year ago. im sorry.


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## juka

It will be interesting to see where they will go with the Moderns for next Winter NAMM as it's the only Fluences left with "only" two voices (when they brought out the Merrow Sig and the Open Coils they upgraded the normal/old classics with a third voice, too)

Does anybody know if they changed the sound of the Tosins when they brought out Rev. 2?
Or was it just a different layout of the pins on the rear to make this nifty switching pattern with the 5way super switch possible?
Really tempted to change out my Moderns for an Abasi set, because of these switching options ;-)


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

juka said:


> It will be interesting to see where they will go with the Moderns for next Winter NAMM as it's the only Fluences left with "only" two voices (when they brought out the Merrow Sig and the Open Coils they upgraded the normal/old classics with a third voice, too)
> 
> Does anybody know if they changed the sound of the Tosins when they brought out Rev. 2?
> Or was it just a different layout of the pins on the rear to make this nifty switching pattern with the 5way super switch possible?
> Really tempted to change out my Moderns for an Abasi set, because of these switching options ;-)



I bought the modern 7 set early on, and in my understanding, much like the early classics as well (i.e. not open core), you can split the coils of each pickup for a single coil tone. It's not a different dedicated single voicing as was done in case of the Townsend & Abasi sigs. It may not be mistaken for a single coil, but I enjoy the coil split tones quite a bit on my moderns. Tosin's dedicated single voicing is quite uncanny though.


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## Gmork

Has anyone A/Bd the tosin8 and modern8 with highgain and can u tell me your experience?! 

Also i sure wish the keith merrows came with a blade magnet so i could throw it into my multiscale 8.


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## BearOnGuitar

I briefly played the Tosin set this week, next to a Modern and Steph set, all in 8 string guitars. The Tosin sounds quite fat under distortion and has great low end, it seems very versatile and the coil split sound is sweet. I definitely prefer the Tosin set over the Moderns, however I have to say I like the newest revisions of the Moderns much more than the first one that I have installed in one of my guitars, but I still prefer the Steph set overall.


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## Gmork

BearOnGuitar said:


> I briefly played the Tosin set this week, next to a Modern and Steph set, all in 8 string guitars. The Tosin sounds quite fat under distortion and has great low end, it seems very versatile and the coil split sound is sweet. I definitely prefer the Tosin set over the Moderns, however I have to say I like the newest revisions of the Moderns much more than the first one that I have installed in one of my guitars, but I still prefer the Steph set overall.


Yeah the tosins have some extra "girth" around 100hz to 200hz. Which im really intrigued by. I imagine theyd excell at "the brootz" lol. But i really cant decide on them or the moderns ARGH!?!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Gmork said:


> Yeah the tosins have some extra "girth" around 100hz to 200hz. Which im really intrigued by. I imagine theyd excell at "the brootz" lol. But i really cant decide on them or the moderns ARGH!?!



If you want the extra girth but still wanna stay brutal, the Stefs might be something you want. Someone here swears by the Stefs because they sound like Moderns with more ass


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## Gmork

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If you want the extra girth but still wanna stay brutal, the Stefs might be something you want. Someone here swears by the Stefs because they sound like Moderns with more ass


I want brutal... But like a controllable clean brutal... ya know?
Ive seen the eq wav of the stefs and it aint pretty lol. Super obese, it really just looks like WAY too much. Also ive heard less than pleasant things about them which dont help sell me on them.
The moderns and tosins on the other hand!


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## BearOnGuitar

Gmork said:


> I want brutal... But like a controllable clean brutal... ya know?
> Ive seen the eq wav of the stefs and it aint pretty lol. Super obese, it really just looks like WAY too much. Also ive heard less than pleasant things about them which dont help sell me on them.
> The moderns and tosins on the other hand!



Don't look at EQ curves, listen with your ears. To me the Steph set is like an improved Modern set with better mids, better dynamics and transient response. It has it's own thing going on and in my opinion it's the best feeling Fluence set so far. Having that said the low end is really fat in voice 2, however not to the point where it is a problem. To me the Tosin set has even more low end than the Steph set in voice 1 and it sounds great but I'm missing the increased headroom or transient response of the Steph with the Tosin set. The Modern set pretty much is an EMG 81/85 set with less bass and more treble, I think it's a bit too much on the thinner side. Both the Tosin and Steph set sound better in my opinion.


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## Don Tonberry

How's the Tosin set single coil voicing compared to the Open core single coil voicing? (or any of the other sets with that voicing) I have an older rev Modern set and thought it sounded great but the coil split was a little lacking imo. I figured maybe one of the newer sets with a dedicated single coil voicing would work out better


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## Strobe

Don Tonberry said:


> How's the Tosin set single coil voicing compared to the Open core single coil voicing? (or any of the other sets with that voicing) I have an older rev Modern set and thought it sounded great but the coil split was a little lacking imo. I figured maybe one of the newer sets with a dedicated single coil voicing would work out better



I don't have the open core singles, but I do have the regular classics with the split wired to a push pull. I am not sure if they changed anything between the regular classics and the open core - I thought they just made the it so that the voicing went to a pin instead of a solder pad. Maybe they changed how it sounds, I but I am going to assume that is not the case and they just changed how you wire it up to make it easier to use.

I also own the 6 string Tosin set. The single coil voicing on the Tosin set is better in my opinion. It's strattier, if that makes sense. The classics split is just OK, it's kind of a thin sound, not quite strat like, but definitely single coil sounding. On the Tosin set, it is very stratty. The neck has a hollow slightly scooped sound with a very jangly top end. The bridge is a little less scooped in voicing, it's more mid forward and fuller as compared to the single coil voicing on the classic. Put simply, the single coil voice on the classics feels like an afterthought. The single coil voicing on the Tosin set feels like they put a lot into specifically that voicing.


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## Gmork

Would you say the tosins are full bodied? You know, big full lows/low mids/mids?


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## MASS DEFECT

Like one guy said here, the Tosins are Moderns with @ss. They are not as thick as Steff's but they do have some open bass and low mids going on.


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## BearOnGuitar

Full bodied is a good word to describe the Tosins. They are not too far apart actually, the Steph set might have slightly more low end and a different response in the mids to it.


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## narad

The Tosins have bass? Isn't this contrary to the usual shpiel -- extended range, low tunings, need EQs with backed off bass to reduce flubbiness.


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## Strobe

narad said:


> The Tosins have bass? Isn't this contrary to the usual shpiel -- extended range, low tunings, need EQs with backed off bass to reduce flubbiness.



It's more low mids. They are still pretty clear. The Fluence kind of have that otherworldly clarity to them. That said, the low mids do make it less tight than the moderns and especially the KSE set (clearest IMO). For the bargain, you get a lot of thickness to them. Think tone zone levels of thick.


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## MASS DEFECT

And it is less compressed than the Moderns so you hear more of that low mids coming through.


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## juka

Would be interested in how different the neck PUs sound under high gain?

Although I never liked the EMG81 I like the Modern bridge (V1) quite a lot, but the Modern neck sounds kind of meh for Petrucci like leads.

Is the TA neck PU better suited for them?


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## Gmork

Im having a custom 8 built and have finalized my decision for the tosin set. I have a really good feeling theyll lend themselves extremely well to techy death metal or dissonant proggy stuff and everything in between.
Im terribly excited! Lol


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## juka

In the description on their website they state :_"Voice 1 begins with our Modern recipe and fattens up the low midrange while adjusting the output level to Tosin’s taste."
_
In which direction did they adjust the output level?
Higher or lower than the Moderns?


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## lewis

Im thinking of getting Modern bridge ceramic and Abasi neck for the better neck leads/cleans/coil split

Doesnt appear I can buy the Abasi separately though


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Im thinking of getting Modern bridge ceramic and Abasi neck for the better neck leads/cleans/coil split
> 
> Doesnt appear I can buy the Abasi separately though



I don't think you can with any of the sig models


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## 0rimus

lewis said:


> Im thinking of getting Modern bridge ceramic and Abasi neck for the better neck leads/cleans/coil split
> 
> Doesnt appear I can buy the Abasi separately though



This is exactly what I want to do for a build I'm working on. Tosin neck is amazing but I kinda want more hyper ungodly tightness outta the bridge. Wonder if enough of us show interest they'll split the Tosin set up?


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## lewis

0rimus said:


> This is exactly what I want to do for a build I'm working on. Tosin neck is amazing but I kinda want more hyper ungodly tightness outta the bridge. Wonder if enough of us show interest they'll split the Tosin set up?


Hope so.

Is there anyone on here we can speak to who works at Fishman about like a larger bulk order?

Its the ideal pairing really for low tuned and modern metal


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## 0rimus

The Fluence Djent Set, now featuring simulated Lacewood or Paduak covers!


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## Gmork

My fishman TA 8 set came in! Im going with the push/pull vol and tone knobs with 3 way pu switch configuration. 
Cant wait to hear them when my custom 8 is finished


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## Joan Maal

I just have installed them on my RG2228 with Tosin's configuration push/pull vol knob and without tone knob.
Nothing to do with the previous EMG808 set (18v mod.) All that new 8 different voices sounds amazing.


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## Chromatizm

frank falbo said:


> Sort of. What it really is, is 2 voices, and then when you engage the coil split, it automatically engages this 3rd voice that is dedicated to the single coil sound. Then, in Tosin's case we wire it up pretty custom. You don't have to do this. But he uses a super 5-way so that the 2 and 4 positions are automatically splitting to single coil, and combining different coils, etc.
> 
> Like when he talks about a tele-like neck pickup tone, we're splitting to alnico poles in the neck-side coil of the neck pickup, through "Voice 3" of that neck pickup. Then, for the other setting, we go to the inside coils, but feeding Voice 3 in the bridge pickup. It's pretty sick.
> 
> You can do all of those selections other ways, with push/pulls and mini toggles too. We just put them all on a 5-way super switch for Tosin's guitars.



Thank you very much for this, Frank! 
Is there a guide or anything on how to wire the system in a way not presented in the Installation guide?

See, I'm totally a single-coil guy, think John Mayer classic Strat sounds etc., but no single-coil pickups cut it for me when playing fast legato lines. I use neck humbuker for soloing (fusion and classic jazz mostly, break-up or low gain typically), so I pulled a trigger on TA sig v2 with Otax 5-way switch, and couldn't be happier with the "neck tele" and "neck humbuker" options, loving them to death.

The issue here is that I would like the rest of the option being based on single-coil sounds. I don't ever use bridge humbucker, for example, just not my sound no matter the pickups. I would like to rewire the system in a way that positions currently occupied by sounds based on the rest of the possible Voice 3 combinations. Kind of what I can do with Moderns - six "single coil" options by using two push-pulls. I would like to utilize different coil options in TAs, try to combine them in parallel, inner-outer coils, etc. I need to keep Voice 1 and 2 for neck humbucker, but that's it, the rest I'd prefer to be "single coils".

I'm pretty sure I will be happy with Voice 3 sounds, but I literally have no clue how to do that - neither does my guitar technician, as this is his first Fishman installation and he's lost how to re-wire it. Can you please suggest here? Thanks a lot


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