# Anyone else never learned a cover?



## ncfiala (Jan 10, 2017)

I've been playing for about 5 years or so (with a large gap of about a year in there where I didn't really play at all). I taught myself music theory out of the Kostka and Payne book and some other sources. I don't tune standard. I come up with my own shapes for everything (scales, chords, arpeggios, etc.) that are frequently different from what others seem to be commonly using. Consequently, it seems like it would be somewhat difficult for me to learn any covers. I also find that I just don't really have any interest in learning someone else's tunes. Anybody else who has never learned a cover? Am I missing out on anything by not learning covers or is my time better spent learning how to develop my own sound?


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## Dayn (Jan 11, 2017)

It's one thing to have your instrument in a unique tuning and to play it in a certain way. It's another to not learn any other music. It's the latter that's perplexing to me.

I'm going to be blunt and say you should definitely learn to play others' music. I don't see how you can develop your own sound *without* it. Otherwise 'your sound' will be developed in a void, bereft of ideas that anyone else has come up with. Developing your sound in that way is like reinventing the wheel. It only gets you brownie points with those who think 'true art' or whatever can only be done without reference to anyone else. (Think about all the people who think learning music theory will destroy their creativity. Don't be like them.)

Definitely learn to play others' songs. Play it in your own tuning and have at it, you'll learn a lot. You don't need to learn a whole song to get the benefit out of it.

If you're playing just to enjoy yourself, then do whatever. But if you're looking to develop and create your own sound, you're doing yourself a disservice by writing off every other piece of music in existence.


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## Rachmaninoff (Jan 11, 2017)

ncfiala said:


> I don't tune standard. I come up with my own shapes for everything (scales, chords, arpeggios, etc.) that are frequently different from what others seem to be commonly using.



This guy started the same way you did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Ben_Jor

And he ended up creating many cool things.


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## TedEH (Jan 11, 2017)

If you don't play covers because you don't feel like it, then I think that's a legit way to go. It's your own time, do what you want.

However:
If saying "I don't have any interest in playing other peoples' music" is an excuse to navigate around the fact that you're _incapable_ of playing other people's music, that that's a whole other thing. Like don't join a band, then, when told what a chord progression is, respond with "I don't _do_ chords man, I just do my own thing, ya know?"

A large part of learning other peoples' music is learning the language of collaboration- having some baseline understanding of the same melodies and progressions and techniques etc. means that you can jump into a situation with other musicians without friction. You can pick up on subtle differences in how another person plays the same song, and usually learn something from that. Every time I've joined a new band, my playing improves from absorbing the way another musician approaches the same pieces. If that doesn't mean anything to you, maybe you have no interest in jamming with other people, then by all means, go do what you want and have fun with it.


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## ncfiala (Jan 11, 2017)

I just want to clarify some things. I don't tune standard but I also don't tune in some crazy weird tuning. I tune in 4ths. I come up with my own shapes for scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. but I'm not just making up scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. I have studied tonal harmony and have a grasp of the major, natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales and their modes and how to harmonize them with triads and 7th chords and how to make chord progressions. Also, music is simply a hobby for me and that's all it will ever be. I have a career.


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## TedEH (Jan 11, 2017)

Wasn't pointed at you specifically, I was just stating general opinion.

But I stick to what I said- covers are part of a language of collaboration with people, and a valuable learning tool. They're useful for things like auditions, or for band "bonding moments" where you can play a song you enjoy together, or as a reference point where you're trying to communicate a certain riff phrasing or something like that. But also for studying how the original artist might have played a part. Or how your friend or someone on youtube plays the same part.

My point being that covers serve a purpose outside of just having a library of "look at all the songs I can play", and outside of the weird identity politics people attach to what they play "I totally only play psuedo-blackened death-thrash-jazz-grind from Italy because playing anything else would be untrve" or "I can't play those because that's THEIR music, and I only do ME."


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## Eptaceros (Jan 11, 2017)

ncfiala said:


> I just want to clarify some things. I don't tune standard but I also don't tune in some crazy weird tuning. I tune in 4ths. I come up with my own shapes for scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. but I'm not just making up scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. I have studied tonal harmony and have a grasp of the major, natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales and their modes and how to harmonize them with triads and 7th chords and how to make chord progressions. Also, music is simply a hobby for me and that's all it will ever be. I have a career.



Guitars are already tuned to 4ths, save from the G-B strings. Do you mean 5ths?


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## ncfiala (Jan 11, 2017)

Eptaceros said:


> Guitars are already tuned to 4ths, save from the G-B strings. Do you mean 5ths?


 
As you said yourself, guitars are not tuned in 4ths since there is a major third between the second and third strings. I tune in all 4ths, typically BEADGCF on a 7, but sometimes I bring everything down a semitone or two.


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## Kanye (Jan 11, 2017)

Learning other peoples music and techniques is not only one of the greatest learning aids, it also attribute greatly to one forging their 'own sound' so to speak.

The acquisition of knowledge is what matters, not the source. If someone thinks they can do this alone without learning absolutely anything from another person or artist, I would imagine this would slow the process immensely. But if it brings you joy. Thats awesome.


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## Winspear (Jan 11, 2017)

I haven't learned a cover or so much as a riff in years, and also tune in 4ths down a step. Nice to meet you haha  

You know some theory, you know what music _sounds_ like so you can still draw inspiration from it, that's fine - no need to know how to play it. I had good fun playing along with some songs back in the day, but as an adult with very limited guitar time and lots of goals for writing music, spending a week or more (probably a lot more given the technicality of the music I enjoy) learning a cover is little more than a waste of time to me now. Sure it develops my chops, but so does learning my own stuff to record it Save​


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## Keel (Jan 11, 2017)

I ONLY learn other peoples stuff haha. It challenges me, whereas when I sit with a guitar and try to come up with my own stuff, I just get bothered by how the stuff I'm writing isn't technical enough. I never feel anything I come up with is good enough to say, "hey, I wrote this song." I'm sure I could, but I don't feel like trying to write and learn a complex piece of music at the same time. So I just sit and mindlessly shred on scales I know or songs I've learned.


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## Semi-pro (Jan 12, 2017)

I remember going through a phase that involved thinking like "I rather invest my time in my own ideas than others" and thus didn't learn/study any existing music for a while. I'm glad I got over it! Learning just one song by ear every now and then makes you come up with so much cool stuff. There is so always at least one song that includes ideas that you wish you had come up with yourself!

Like someone said before, to deliberalely avoid learning from others is rather just creating a void than "keeping your ideas pure". Afterall, it's still your desicion whether to use it or not, whatever it is you learned.


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## bostjan (Jan 12, 2017)

This thought is so foreign to me, I don't really know how to address it directly.

I can't listen to a song without trying to figure out how to play it. Maybe that's good or maybe that's bad, I don't care, it's the way I am. If you are the opposite way, but feel just as confident in the state of your being that way, then cool.

I've known maybe two other guys, personally, who have stated that they don't want to learn anybody else's stuff because it's creatively stifling, (not because they simply had no interest, and also note that those guys were not hobbyists, but trying to take on music as a profession), and those dudes all failed quite hard at making it anywhere in the local scene.

As far as tuning guitar in all fourths, well, man, I have to point out, that you are using maybe the second or third most common tuning there, so it's not weird at all, and shouldn't have much effect on playing other people's music. It's actually a fairly intuitive tuning.


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## gnoll (Jan 13, 2017)

I don't learn a lot of "covers", but when I hear music I like, I want to understand what it is and why I like it, so that I can use that information to make my own music better. That doesn't normally mean I learn whole songs, but I can for example hear chord progressions, little pieces of melody or just certain intervals over a certain chord, etc. that I really like and that I want to figure out what they are so that I can remember them and add them to my own musical tool box, so to speak. I guess that's a bit of both of "learning other peoples music" and "developing my own sound". It seems for me they kinda go hand in hand.


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## TedEH (Jan 13, 2017)

I think there's some value too, in the idea of trying to replicate the vibe or a certain pattern or riff in a completely different tuning. The music theory doesn't change even if the tuning does.

I've got a song that came about when trying to replicate a cool sound originally played in open tuning, but in standard instead.


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## Drew (Jan 13, 2017)

While finding your own voice is important, I've also always thought that the guitar, like ALL instruments, has its own unique vocabulary and tradition, and asa a guitarist you should be familiar with that. It's also helped me imprtove my own playing by learning a certain amount of other people's music to understand and learn from their approach and get myself out of my own comfort zones. 

I would never recommend ONLY playing covers, but find a few solos you like, and learn them I guarantee you'll take some valuable ideas from the process.


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## Drew (Jan 13, 2017)

Also, if I was going to go with some modified tuning like that, I'd look at stacked 5ths, not fourths, for the utulity in 4 note per string scales that would provide - it'd make it a lot easier to borrow ideas from classical violin and string section music, too. String gauges get tricky on a 7, though, which is why I haven't bothered to try...


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## ncfiala (Jan 13, 2017)

Drew said:


> Also, if I was going to go with some modified tuning like that, I'd look at stacked 5ths, not fourths, for the utulity in 4 note per string scales that would provide - it'd make it a lot easier to borrow ideas from classical violin and string section music, too. String gauges get tricky on a 7, though, which is why I haven't bothered to try...


 
I've thought about all 5ths, but I would miss the in-position three-note-per string scale shapes. I do use those some.


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## Winspear (Jan 15, 2017)

Yeah all 5ths doesn't appeal to me much. I notice enough inconvenience with regular drop tuning and how it affects ascending or descending basslines - not a fan of the big jumps! Plus chord wise, it makes close voicings which I love even harder than they already are, or simply impossible


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## Karmaic (Jan 18, 2017)

Long time lurker, thought Id join today. 

But, ive been playing on/off for 15 years, and I can count on hand the number of covers I can play start/finish. I played a crappy 6 string for about a year and after I heard a buddy throwing down some pounding riffs on a 7, I switched and never looked back. Hell, I cant even play a 6 string anymore. After I learned basic melody/chordings/progression and a few scales, I got bored with covers and started writing my own material. Ill still look up a riff that I like and play it, but as far as learning entire covers, those days have passed. Covers to me, were just a "get your feet wet" kinda thing when I first picked up a guitar. I dont really have a lot of interest in throwing down somebody elses music. Sure, sampling a riff will open the door to some new ideas, but, after you learn the basics of guitar, you learn what goes together and what doesnt in terms of melody. 

Stephen Carpenter (Deftones) once was asked in an interview what advice he'd like to give to aspiring guitarists..."Stop playing other peoples music! That way you dont sound like anybody else." And hes been pretty successful..


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## LiveOVErdrive (Jan 20, 2017)

In other musical circles, "covers" are called "repertoire". Playing other people's music is more normal than playing your own, and it is a great way to improve as a player.

Bear in mind, when classical artists and such play rep they don't write, they are still expressing themselves musically. It is a bit different to learn from a sheet of paper rather than from a recording, but if I learn a new Clarinet Concerto, I'm not going to learn it to sound exactly the same as the definitive recording of that concerto, I'm going to learn the notes but play it as expressively as I can and with my own interpretation.

I'm rambling a bit, but the point is this:
1. there is no shame in playing other people's music - this has been the norm forever.
2. you can learn a lot from playing other people's music

(I'm not implying OP or anybody believes covers are shameful, but some people do so I thought this would be interesting to share. And I'm sorry if I sound pretentious - I'm not trying to)


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## Drew (Jan 24, 2017)

Karmaic said:


> Stephen Carpenter (Deftones) once was asked in an interview what advice he'd like to give to aspiring guitarists..."Stop playing other peoples music! That way you dont sound like anybody else." And hes been pretty successful..



Yes, because the Deftones are known for their inventive and highly unconventional guitar playing...


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## Andrew May (Jan 25, 2017)

I learned a few Sabbath riffs when I was a teenager.....

....but I don't know a single song/piece of music by another person. I've been playing on and off for 16 years or so (mainly off). The last year I taught myself to play in a way that actually makes sense to me (nearly all tapping, horizontal) and I'm so glad I never applied myself to learning how to play "properly". I mean, I wasted over a decade of practice but I never became a "metal guitarist". I'm now making music that doesn't really sound like "guitar music" (although if I throw on the distortion I can hammer out some heaviness) and I'm super happy with where I'm going musically.


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## bostjan (Jan 25, 2017)

Let's be realistic for a moment:

You need to determine why you picked up the guitar in the first place and be true to that.

If you are a singer holding a guitar, then you probably want to do whatever fits your music.

On the other hand, if you picked up a guitar in order to join a band, make your own band, jam with buddies, or make noise, you should learn some songs.

And if you picked up the guitar solely to become a famous guitarist (for glory), then just give up, because that is not going to happen. Even if you have the proper motivation, then it's highly unlikely anyway in today's music industry.


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## Andrew May (Jan 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Let's be realistic for a moment:
> 
> You need to determine why you picked up the guitar in the first place and be true to that.
> 
> ....On the other hand, if you picked up a guitar in order to join a band, make your own band, jam with buddies, or make noise, you should learn some songs.



That's why I picked up a guitar half my lifetime ago, I was in a school age band but another lad played most of the guitar parts, I learned the odd riff and wrote some more. We all left school, went our own way and I neglected playing. 

Now I've "matured"  and I'm glad that I didn't indoctrinate myself into "the rules". Now I can approach music on my terms, I've no desire to play someone else's music. I've not nearly got enough time to dedicate and frankly, there's a million kids in their bedrooms that can play the entire history of the guitar's repertoire better than I will ever be able to. 

As an adult I'm more inspired by 20thC and modern composition along with free improv. I can't read music and don't have 6hrs a day free to transcribe and learn Ligeti's piano etudes or screed's of Ornet Coleman solos not that I really want to, I want to make new music. Old music isn't going away without little old me. 

Note, I understand that the conventional approach is great for a whole lot of people but it doesn't make alternative approaches wrong.


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## Winspear (Jan 25, 2017)

^ Yeah  I don't feel there's any real benefit to it that makes it a must have. Obviously it can help teach techniques and playing conventions (obvious example being open chords and power chords) but that's nothing that can't be figured out by itself. I've known a couple of people to come from piano to guitar also with no desire to learn other music. They write their own things and figure out/can be taught the techniques to play them. For an absolute beginner sure it can be very beneficial but only really because they might not have other guidance/their own written music to learn.


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## ncfiala (Jan 25, 2017)

I think part of the reason that I don't know any songs is that I learned to play (well I'm still learning to play, always will be) in a way that's probably somewhat unusual. I'm entirely self-taught and when I first picked up the guitar I looked up various "shapes" online and played them, but it bothered me that I had no idea where these shapes came from and I knew I would never get anywhere if I didn't find out. Then I started studying music theory. I'm sure I probably spent more time reading than playing back then. Anyway, I think a lot of players get their feet wet by learning some songs because it probably gives them somewhat of a sense of instant gratification, and then they just continue that trend by learning harder songs. The way that I taught myself offered little to no gratification at the beginning. I'm not saying one way is right and the other is wrong. They are just two vastly different approaches. I think it would be nice to learn some covers. I think I would learn something. I just don't know if it's the best use of my time.


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## Carvinkook (Jan 25, 2017)

Learning other peoples music is challenging, rewarding and often leads to new inspiration and ideas for your own music.. I do it from time to time, never complete songs but usually the pieces i find most interesting. Ive been playing forever it seems and could really do with some knowledge but when i actually took lessons i found myself thinking more than playing and then i (temporarily) lost my ability to just play.. I always thought it wouldve been or could be better to just have someone who wants to point out certain "musical highlights as a general concept" than actual music theory rules. All that being said if i were a young man just beginning and serious about become a "musician" theory,lessons and other peoples completed works would be my emphasis.


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## extendedsolo (Jan 25, 2017)

Karmaic said:


> Stephen Carpenter (Deftones) once was asked in an interview what advice he'd like to give to aspiring guitarists..."Stop playing other peoples music! That way you dont sound like anybody else." And hes been pretty successful..




I will agree in part with Stephen Carpenter. Many hip hop, EDM, trap, etc don't know how to play other peoples music. I mean it would be ....ing weird if they did. Instead that kind of music drives innovation in my opinion. A lot of that stuff is tearing down traditional structures and doing their own thing. Granted those have more to do with other things (drops, dramatic parts of songs, lyrics) but it's still the same.

The issue is that rock music isn't that. I think there are a handful of guitarists that are incredible listeners. They can listen to something and capture the feel in their own playing. Or they can hear an idea in their head and play it. Frank Zappa comes to mind. The issue is that SOOO many people aren't this way. If we are going to cherry pick players, Nuno Bettencourt said that transcribing and learning other peoples stuff helps give you your own voice. Yeah you might not play it like the original, but it gives you some vocabulary. Also it helps you take things from your head to the fretboard. Unless you have a knack for that, I think trascribing is invaluable. 

I mean really you can do whatever you want. Not required to learn other peoples music, but it can be a way to give your own playing a little jump start. I find that just listening to music can give me many many ideas at this point.


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## TedEH (Jan 25, 2017)

extendedsolo said:


> Many hip hop, EDM, trap, etc don't know how to play other peoples music.



I'm not in those scenes by any means, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I tend not to think of those quite as much as perfomance-based genres. Metal people (some of them) tend to get very elitist about how we're "super great instrumentalists" and "better musicians than mainstream" and all that nonsense, which is part elitism, but part just because rock/metal/etc. are very performance-driven. There's a lot of physical skill, muscle memory, etc., that make it worth practicing techniques and studying "how it feels to play" existing music. Something like electronic music or something like that doesn't really have that performance bit to emulate or learn from. I mean a cover would mean, what, downloading the midi and hitting play? There's no muscle memory to hone for that. It's still worthwhile studying existing material, but the learning value of "playing a cover" is non-existent.


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## big_aug (Jan 25, 2017)

This is something that plagued me over the years since I started learning on my own. I learned many riffs and parts of solos and such but I wouldn't finish learning the whole song. It's a major detriment to actually getting better at making music. I did too much ....ing around making up my own riffs and stuff.

I can't imagine how much faster I would have progressed as a player if I sat down and learned entire songs all the way through and played them consistently all the way through to perfection. There is no way to get that kind of practice if you play by yourself and you aren't coming up with your own full arrangements on all the instruments. Getting that feel and groove actually playing along with songs. A metronome isn't the same. It's just not. There's a big difference playing a song to a click and playing along with all the instruments and vocals.

I started forcing myself to do it now instead of moving on or getting distracted when I get bored. It's much better practice. It's practical application. Playing covers is like good on the job training. I don't think there is a more effective way to become a better player.

Obviously, if you're a skilled musician, then it is probably less necessary. If you aren't exactly an expert, then I can't see how anything would be more beneficial overall.


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## Karmaic (Jan 26, 2017)

Drew said:


> Yes, because the Deftones are known for their inventive and highly unconventional guitar playing...



This isnt about "highly unconventional" guitar playing. Its about finding your own voice, through your own guitar. Every guitarist worth his weight in salt can pick out a Deftones song just by the guitar signature. Id say that is good enough...


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## extendedsolo (Jan 27, 2017)

Karmaic said:


> This isnt about "highly unconventional" guitar playing. Its about finding your own voice, through your own guitar. Every guitarist worth his weight in salt can pick out a Deftones song just by the guitar signature. Id say that is good enough...



But Carpenter is more the exception than the rule. I really wish guitar players would stop with this cherry picking of guys that "can't read music" or "don't know other people's songs" in an effort to justify their laziness. 

What's more is that Carpenter's guitar work and the deftones are about the entire band working together, not Carpenters guitar work only.


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## TedEH (Jan 27, 2017)

extendedsolo said:


> I really wish guitar players would stop with this cherry picking of guys that "can't read music" or "don't know other people's songs" in an effort to justify their laziness.



I guess that's where I was trying to point out a distinction a while back between "don't want to play other peoples songs" and "*can't* play other people's songs". I'm all for people just doing their own thing, but I've definitely met some guitarists who just weren't very good and use the "I just do my own thing" line as an excuse to call themselves "good" musicians despite being unable to follow along with a basic jam.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter as long as you're enjoying it, but I'd much rather people just be upfront about it. Don't tell me you only do your own music, just own up to the fact that you're not a virtuoso. It's perfectly ok to suck at guitar, but still do it cause it's fun.  It's equally ok to be good at playing in an unconventional way, as long as you're still willing to admit if you suck at playing conventionally, if that makes any sense.


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## Drew (Jan 27, 2017)

Karmaic said:


> This isnt about "highly unconventional" guitar playing. Its about finding your own voice, through your own guitar. Every guitarist worth his weight in salt can pick out a Deftones song just by the guitar signature. Id say that is good enough...



He plays power chord riffs just like anyone else - he got to a very conventional point. If the point of not learning other music is to not sound like anyone else, well, I'd say he failed.


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## Karmaic (Jan 29, 2017)

Drew said:


> He plays power chord riffs just like anyone else - he got to a very conventional point. If the point of not learning other music is to not sound like anyone else, well, I'd say he failed.



Opinions vary. No offense, but Id say his platinum albums speak louder than your forum post. If he was a failure at what he does, the band wouldnt have went far. Especially in the rock/metal genre. Its kinda hard to fake a sh*tty sounding guitarist. Right? His rhythm sets him apart from everyone else. Hes groovey. Anybody can play a powerchord. Not everybody can make 2-3 power chords sound good. He can. 90% of guitar playing and making good music is rhythm and melody. I think we can all agree on that. Or can we? Its also a fair point in saying, that some guitarists are only interested in covers or technique because their own creativeness sucks. So, may as well learn to play fast if you cant create anything that sounds good. At least you can shred that bitchin solo and hit them squealies to impress other guitarists, online, or in the garage. Steph will be busy playing his failed guitar riffs in front on sellout arenas worldwide. 


Lol


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## prlgmnr (Jan 29, 2017)

I keep writing and deleting this post because I can't quite work out how to say it.

Of all the guitarists to come out of 90s nu metal, Carpenter stands out by a country mile precisely because of how much he does with "just a few powerchords"*. 

Like, every couple of years I'll chuck on White Pony and be blown away by how fresh and urgent it still is. At no point do I get part way into Digital Bath and think "if only he played a bit more guitar".


*No, I'm still not happy with this, it's the band as a whole, not him. Which is probably even more important to note.


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## extendedsolo (Jan 30, 2017)

prlgmnr said:


> I keep writing and deleting this post because I can't quite work out how to say it.
> 
> Of all the guitarists to come out of 90s nu metal, Carpenter stands out by a country mile precisely because of how much he does with "just a few powerchords"*.
> 
> ...



I'll agree 100000 percent on it's the entire band. If we are talking about the important members of the band I would say Carpenter isn't as important as Chino or the drummer. He knows how to get out of his own way to fit what the SONG needs, which is a skill in and of itself.



Karmaic said:


> Opinions vary. No offense, but Id say his platinum albums speak louder than your forum post. If he was a failure at what he does, the band wouldnt have went far. Especially in the rock/metal genre. Its kinda hard to fake a sh*tty sounding guitarist. Right? His rhythm sets him apart from everyone else. Hes groovey. Anybody can play a powerchord. Not everybody can make 2-3 power chords sound good. He can. 90% of guitar playing and making good music is rhythm and melody. I think we can all agree on that. Or can we? Its also a fair point in saying, that some guitarists are only interested in covers or technique because their own creativeness sucks. So, may as well learn to play fast if you cant create anything that sounds good. At least you can shred that bitchin solo and hit them squealies to impress other guitarists, online, or in the garage. Steph will be busy playing his failed guitar riffs in front on sellout arenas worldwide.
> 
> 
> Lol



Justin Bieber and Kenny Chesney are the modern day equivalent of Bach and Mozart because they sell out stadiums everywhere.


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## bostjan (Jan 30, 2017)

Sigh.

I was going to stay out of this, but the whole "X guitarist from well-known band is better than you, and therefore my point is correct and I'm better than you" argument is horse.....

Drew is a killer player in his own rite. To be honest, there are a lot of phenomenal players on this site, and most never get a big break. It doesn't mean .... about how much skill anyone has acquired in their mechanical techniques, songwriting, nor anything else short of an outright popularity contest.

So, firstly, the popularity of Stephen Carpenter has no correlation to how correct or incorrect your point is, and secondly, the popularity of the Deftones has no correlation on how good of a guitarist Drew is.

Let's get that straight.

Now carry on.


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## TedEH (Jan 30, 2017)

bostjan said:


> there are a lot of phenomenal players on this site, and most never get a big break.



I'm reminded of one time how I tried to make a point about the importance of a bands name in terms of brand and discoverability, to which the first response was "if you're not successful, it's because your band sucks". 

It's important to remember that huge successes tend to be exceptions to rules, not the other way around, I guess. I suppose you could factor that into the conversation about unconventional playing in any number of ways.


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## prlgmnr (Jan 30, 2017)

I didn't intend in any way to impugn the playing of Drew, or anyone really.


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## extendedsolo (Jan 30, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Sigh.
> 
> I was going to stay out of this, but the whole "X guitarist from well-known band is better than you, and therefore my point is correct and I'm better than you" argument is horse.....
> 
> ...



edit: nevermind.


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## Drew (Feb 1, 2017)

Karmaic said:


> Opinions vary. No offense, but Id say his platinum albums speak louder than your forum post. If he was a failure at what he does, the band wouldnt have went far. Especially in the rock/metal genre. Its kinda hard to fake a sh*tty sounding guitarist. Right? His rhythm sets him apart from everyone else. Hes groovey. Anybody can play a powerchord. Not everybody can make 2-3 power chords sound good. He can. 90% of guitar playing and making good music is rhythm and melody. I think we can all agree on that. Or can we? Its also a fair point in saying, that some guitarists are only interested in covers or technique because their own creativeness sucks. So, may as well learn to play fast if you cant create anything that sounds good. At least you can shred that bitchin solo and hit them squealies to impress other guitarists, online, or in the garage. Steph will be busy playing his failed guitar riffs in front on sellout arenas worldwide.
> 
> 
> Lol



None taken, but by that same argument, Britney Spears is an even better musician than Stephen Carpenter, and she entirely plays other people's music. Success on its own doesn't prove talent or uniqueness of approach. 

My broader point was I don't really hear people raving about the Deftones for their highly creative, inventive, and unique guitar parts - their guitar playing sounds like a bunch of other bands that got big around the same time. I think their success was more driven by the songwriting, of which the guitar plays a supporting role. 

So, I don't think he was a failure as a guitarist - I just think he's not especially unique. I don't think his band's success automatically *proves* that learning covers is bad for your growth as a musician, because I don't think the guitar playing is instrumental to their success.

EDIT - and, I'll add this - I just hit wikipedia to try to find a couple early reviews of Adrenaline, to see if maybe I'm misremembering this whole thing since I was pretty young when they broke out (random story, the first time I ever jammed with people drunk was playing "Root" half in the bag at a drummer buddy's place, and I distinctly remember thinking that my picking hand was looser drunk than sober). And, the page starts off with the story about how Stephen Carpenter allegedly learned how to play guitar after getting hit by a car while skateboarding, and taught himself by playing along with Metallica and Anthrax songs. So this whole thing that he didn't learn by playing covers and his playing is somehow unique for that isn't even true.


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