# Thermionik Amp VSTs - Holy S***!!!!!!



## steelyad (Jun 20, 2016)

Hey Guys

Sorry i've been away for a while (studio flooded, video on that posted soon).

I've been turned on to the Thermionik plugins by Kazrog, and holy cow they're awesome! I was using Poulin's Lecto and HyBrit before, and with all respect to Alain Poulin, they've gone in the digital bin.

I also used Recabinet by the same guy to load the Rosen Digital American Custom IR, because I wanted to try the plugin. The inbuilt LP and HP are very useful, and the "dynamics" switch gave the low end thump some extra life that's very hard to put a finger on.... sounds great though.

The amps I tested here are:- Dual Rec (2ch), Friedman BE-100, Mesa IIC+ and mark IV, JCM800 and 5150 MK1.
There are loads more, but at $12.99 per amp, i'll sure as hell be getting a few.



Steelyad


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 20, 2016)

Yeah I tried these on the demo when he released them. Wasn't enough to make me ditch the AxeFx, but these were really impressive compared to what else is out there.


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## steelyad (Jun 21, 2016)

You on AxeFX II? It is better, but you do have to commit the ~2 grand. Performance to dollar? This works in a lot of situations.
Also, in the studio I use the real amps, mostly because people expect to see amps/cabs when they're paying money, so that's where the budget goes. Any stuff I record at home I can't be spending that much on a secondary rig!


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## Kazrog (Jun 21, 2016)

Great video! Very much enjoyed the in-depth approach - glad to see also that someone appreciates the bold/spongy and silicon/tubes toggles other than me. 

As an aside - I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to ditch their hardware (analog or digital.) My job is to match the behavior of the real amps. I think that hardware and software will always continue to coexist. That said, the big advantage with software is that you can run as many instances as you need without having to spend additional money or eat up physical room.


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## Descent (Jun 22, 2016)

I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves. 
In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less. 
I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.


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## steelyad (Jun 22, 2016)

Descent said:


> I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves.
> In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less.
> I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.



Recabinet has been around longer than NadIR by a long stretch, so it's the other way around.
As for them being separate VSTs, that's something I much prefer because i'm not mollycoddled by an overall shell where i'd only turn off all the other stuff anyway. As for the impulses, I didn't use them so i'm not going to enter that debate, but the loader was as competent as any other i've used and the CPU usage was low.
If you pick Amplitube's amps a-la-carte, in my opinion you will end up with a far inferior sound, money aside. I've been using Amplitube since version 2 and apart from the newer marshall sims, they're way out of date tone wise..... for me, sound comes far above anything else and this has it in spades.
And I think I got a decent tone out of them in what i'd definitely not call djent....


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## niffnoff (Jun 22, 2016)

Descent said:


> I am running the trial right now and actually quite underwhelmed by their approach. Their cab modeler is kind of a different take on NadIR, although very close to it, the impulses that came with the trial are OK, but nothing mind blowing and I can't seem to figure out what amp I am picking due to the weird name structure, which I guess is understandable due to copyright limitations. The way you load each amp separately I find myself I am constantly loading amps and have to tweak them with effects before and after the amp is in the chain, they never sit right by themselves.
> In comparison, Amplitube is much easier to work with and if you go picking their amps a-la carte you'd probably get more for less.
> I was definitely expecting more...I'd say that these are good for djent and so far I haven't been able to say I like them for anything else, just too hard to tweak as they require a lot of external help from the DAW effects.



I found it the opposite. I found Amplitube (as well as Bias, POD Farm, and Guitar Rig) to be very post processing dependent to sound good in a mix. Where as lately Mercuriall and Therminonik Plugins only require a Screamer (if needed at all) and stamp on LeCab and good to go!

I've never had it come so easy until I tried those two plugins, I do like Therminonik for it's CPU easy interface and the fact of the matter I can run it on a bus means it's easy as heck to tweak.


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## Descent (Jun 22, 2016)

Don't get me wrong - I don't hold the torch for Amplitube either. I use ver. 3 with my IR responses as their cabs are OK, but still no cigar. Their amp sim with my IRs matched pretty much cover everything and I don't need extra processing to make them sound good. On these I found I do...

At the end of the day is still mic my cabs and reamp through real gear. I am still not wholly convinced but I use sims for silent tracking when people are sleeping and just demoing stuff...when things are ready to og on the record I still go back to real stuff. 

BTW - I don't get why having an app "wrapper" would be so bad on processing, after all they can load/unload the amp sims each, I don't think Amplitube loads all of their existing amp sims in real time memory.


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## Elric (Jun 23, 2016)

Amplitube is pretty sweet these days, their big issue is that they have several 'generations' of stuff all smeared into one suite. The original model set is long in the tooth but still there beside the latest, greatest. They really took things up a notch in the last year or so but you have to know when a model was developed.

The Engls, the Oranges, and Mesas in particular are quite excellent. The new Marshalls are solid (but could still be a little btter, IMHO). Everything else feels 'old' and not up to par vs those to me. You could do an entire project with just the Mesa suite and get cutting edge sounds for the most part.

I have Thermionik but use Amplitube more. Recabinet is a big plus for Thermionik because IRs are really where it is at for cab tones. Like others I always end up adding IRs to plugins that don't have them but wish they were better integrated into other tools. S-Gear and Revalver do a good job with IR integration but some others that support it do not like: Bias+BiasFX (two separate apps? No stereo cabs?) then others like AT and POD Farm need to have it jammed in there....


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## vertibration (Jun 23, 2016)

Elric said:


> Amplitube is pretty sweet these days, their big issue is that they have several 'generations' of stuff all smeared into one suite. The original model set is long in the tooth but still there beside the latest, greatest. They really took things up a notch in the last year or so but you have to know when a model was developed.
> 
> The Engls, the Oranges, and Mesas in particular are quite excellent. The new Marshalls are solid (but could still be a little btter, IMHO). Everything else feels 'old' and not up to par vs those to me. You could do an entire project with just the Mesa suite and get cutting edge sounds for the most part.
> 
> I have Thermionik but use Amplitube more. Recabinet is a big plus for Thermionik because IRs are really where it is at for cab tones. Like others I always end up adding IRs to plugins that don't have them but wish they were better integrated into other tools. S-Gear and Revalver do a good job with IR integration but some others that support it do not like: Bias+BiasFX (two separate apps? No stereo cabs?) then others like AT and POD Farm need to have it jammed in there....



I actually dig Amplitube Mesa, Engl, and a few oranges. I disable the cab section and use impulses......However, the only plug that really sits well with me so far is the X50. Thermionik is excellent, but its almost there for me. Just some more refinement in the plug in suite, as well as combining thermionik and recabinet would make sense to me at least. I would like to see recabinet combined into the thermionik menu section, so you can just switch fast to make adjustments.


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## Descent (Jun 25, 2016)

So Amplitube didn't resample their whole earlier package when they releases ver. 4.0? I'd imagine they'd run all these amps through their new batch technology, after all they're charging for it like they did? 

I am mainly happy with Ampire on Studio One, maybe not very sophisticated as far as the effects are concerned but it has the IR loader built in and a quite good one at that. 

Most of the time I use that one as I find I can tune it better than NadIR or the others, plus it mixes 3 mic impulses...but like I said, when ready - it goes through the Mesa or Orange through the real speakers and into the mics, and it just sits much better in the final mix.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Jun 26, 2016)

Descent said:


> So Amplitube didn't resample their whole earlier package when they releases ver. 4.0? I'd imagine they'd run all these amps through their new batch technology, after all they're charging for it like they did?
> 
> I am mainly happy with Ampire on Studio One, maybe not very sophisticated as far as the effects are concerned but it has the IR loader built in and a quite good one at that.
> 
> Most of the time I use that one as I find I can tune it better than NadIR or the others, plus it mixes 3 mic impulses...but like I said, when ready - it goes through the Mesa or Orange through the real speakers and into the mics, and it just sits much better in the final mix.



Not sure if you've tried the TSE but I like this one a lot.

https://www.tseaudio.com/home

I thought this Thermionik clip sounded pretty sick though and for the price? Seems like it can't be beat from what I'm hearing on various YouTube clips.

I just DL the trial. I only had a few minutes with it but I found it hard to get a good sound so idk what these guys are doing in the YouTube vids. Some of them sound killer.

I tried the Recab as well but when active it would mute the track automatically and I couldn't get it working so I went back to LeCab.

I'm gonna mess with it during the trial and if I can learn how to dial it in I may buy a sim or two.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yElb-m2wlNo


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## ComaPrison (Jun 26, 2016)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Not sure if you've tried the TSE but I like this one a lot.
> 
> https://www.tseaudio.com/home
> 
> ...


 
I can tell you what they are doing... Post processing.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Jun 26, 2016)

Well I wanted to update my post because it was unjust. Hopefully I can learn post processing because they had it sounding great 

So anyway now that I've had a little time with it, these Thermionik Vsts are amazing!!!

It took a bit of time and you definitely have to do a little tweaking but so far these are definitly the best Vsts I've tried. Better than TSE IMO and the low prices makes it even better. Will definitely be picking some of these up.


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## Emperoff (Jun 27, 2016)

Thermionik is awesome, but I admit I use it less and less these days due to them being separate plugins now. The interface of Recabinet 4 had everything I needed in one screen, and now switching amps and presets is a total pain in the ass.


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## steelyad (Jun 27, 2016)

ComaPrison said:


> I can tell you what they are doing... Post processing.



Not necessarily.
Watch the video above. After the intro, I turn off any buss processing and mixing at all, and it still sounds awesome. You can see my full reaper screen.
Yes, I do mix with some PP for a track, but to demo these plugins, not so.
(After the intro, which is just to give an impression of a finished mix)

Most of getting a good amp tone is understanding how each amp works, tone stack response, gain structure etc. For example, I run a mesa mark IV with the bass control almost off, and compensate on the 5 band EQ. If I didn't, it would be a flubby mess. The marshall sims, on the other hand, can take a lot of bass because of where is affected in the signal path.


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## vertibration (Jun 27, 2016)

Emperoff said:


> Thermionik is awesome, but I admit I use it less and less these days due to them being separate plugins now. The interface of Recabinet 4 had everything I needed in one screen, and now switching amps and presets is a total pain in the ass.



Totally agree 100%. Worst idea to separate everything. It is a huge pain in the ass, and it made me move on to the X50 which is awesome. 

All Kazrog has to do is slap recabinet 5 into the thermionik menu, so you can just switch back and forth easy, and save presets.


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## vertibration (Jun 27, 2016)

Also, its not an all in one price point like Recabinet 4 was at $49. Now everything is sold separately. Devs need to make money, but at the expense of an interface? You can still charge seperately, but at the very least, have the option to connect thermionik and recabinet in one interface.


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## Kazrog (Jun 27, 2016)

vertibration said:


> Also, its not an all in one price point like Recabinet 4 was at $49. Now everything is sold separately. Devs need to make money, but at the expense of an interface? You can still charge seperately, but at the very least, have the option to connect thermionik and recabinet in one interface.



OK, this is a huge jump to several conclusions which are incorrect. The choice to split everything into separate plugins had nothing to do with money - in fact, it may actually ensure that I make a bit less (at least in the short term.)

The choice had everything to do with providing as modular of a signal flow as possible, and staying true to the classic idea of plugins doing one thing well - rather than the bloatware we typically see now with amp sim plugins. This was not an easy choice for me to make - it's one that I weighed the pros and cons of for months during development.

In any case, I am working on a loader so that you can have go-to presets that combine amps, cabs, and whatever FX you want inside a single plugin instance.


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## Elric (Jun 27, 2016)

Kazrog said:


> OK, this is a huge jump to several conclusions which are incorrect. The choice to split everything into separate plugins had nothing to do with money - in fact, it may actually ensure that I make a bit less (at least in the short term.)
> 
> The choice had everything to do with providing as modular of a signal flow as possible, and staying true to the classic idea of plugins doing one thing well - rather than the bloatware we typically see now with amp sim plugins. This was not an easy choice for me to make - it's one that I weighed the pros and cons of for months during development.


FWIW, I consider it a significant downgrade in terms of interface/usability and like the other user (whether correct or not) makes me feel like it was a play to further monetize since it removed the integration and broke it out into two separate paid products. If your goal was to improve things I'd consider it a mistake for my tastes/work flow.

The recabinet interface is absolutely wretched at this point, IMHO. As a paying customer, I would LOVE to see it reworked at a bare minimum, if not reintegrated to Thermionik, if you decide to proved some kind of wrapper to integrate them as a sparate thing, I hope it will be provided to those who own both products.


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## niffnoff (Jun 27, 2016)

I actually think that the whole "it's to monetize thing" deeply wrong. How many here have purchased amp sims and thought. "Gee I really don't wanna use this "Hi-Gain" amp because I play Blues!" Paying for what you need over everything is something that I think is 100% better than anything out there. Amplitube is just starting to do it. I think Therminonik is 100% good for value. And on the Recabinet think, I would rather it be seperate anyway, if I have to focus on everything in one plugin, I guarantee I'm going to get sloppy. Just save your signal chain as a preset once you find something you like. Don't blame a dev for making something in his/her vision to do one thing well. 

my 2 centz....


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## vertibration (Jun 27, 2016)

Elric said:


> FWIW, I consider it a significant downgrade in terms of interface/usability and like the other user (whether correct or not) makes me feel like it was a play to further monetize.
> 
> The recabinet interface is absolutely wretched at this point, IMHO. As a paying customer, I would LOVE to see it reworked at a bare minimum, if not reintegrated to Thermionik, if you decide to proved some kind of wrapper to integrate them as a sparate thing, I hope it will be provided to those who own both products.



Image Line came out with a free wrapper called minihost modular

https://www.image-line.com/support/FLHelp/html/plugins/Minihost Modular.htm

I kinda dont think people even want a host/wrapper. I think people are asking for integration. It doesnt have to be "bloatware" to integrate them both. As far as doing one thing really well, and other amp sims having "bloated" interfaces, I judge that statement by how much CPU it uses. If its low on CPU, and sounds good, then why not have some eye candy. I personally like the interface of the X50. Looks sleek, and sounds awesome. 

I agree, Recabinet as a seperate IR loader is like why? No offence to Kazrog, as his products are awesome, but its the direction that is steering me away towards an all in one sim. 

Not to mention that Fractal Audio confirmed in a thread that they will release their own Amp Sim "soon..."

So if I am the competition, I would go back to the all in one suite idea, because its not that its what everyone else is doing, but its kind of what is expected. Just make your all in one suite refined, simple, bloat free, but make it all in one so people like us wont complain about liking the product, but have issues based out of functionality frustration.


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## Kazrog (Jun 28, 2016)

I appreciate the feedback, guys. It's impossible to please everyone, but I am working on solutions that should solve 99% of the gripes mentioned here.


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## vertibration (Jun 28, 2016)

Kazrog said:


> I appreciate the feedback, guys. It's impossible to please everyone, but I am working on solutions that should solve 99% of the gripes mentioned here.



At least you understand, and are willing to take these things into consideration. Thanks, I like your sims a lot, so Im looking forward to your solutions


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## Descent (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm also utterly confused by the nomenclature and the look is generic, so it doesn't hint of the emulation.
BTW I'm getting better at using these and I like what I'm squeezing out in terms of sound but am using a lot of DAW plugins to massage the signal chain.
I find they work better on active pickups BTW.


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## Kazrog (Jun 29, 2016)

Descent said:


> I'm also utterly confused by the nomenclature and the look is generic, so it doesn't hint of the emulation.



I tried to make the names as intuitive as possible, but if you get stuck, there is a list on the website and in the manual itself. As for the look, it made sense to go to a generic look for a variety of practical reasons - this allows the focus to be put 100% on sounds/function, rather than 3D rendered graphics. As much as I enjoy doing 3D graphics, it's incredibly time consuming and was not going to be sustainable when putting out as many emulations as I have planned over time.



Descent said:


> BTW I'm getting better at using these and I like what I'm squeezing out in terms of sound but am using a lot of DAW plugins to massage the signal chain.



Sure, just like with the real amps in a real studio environment, custom-tailoring the tone to your mix may require additional processing. That's one of the reasons why the whole suite takes a modular approach, so you can do things like separate preamp from poweramp and run things in the loop between, etc.



Descent said:


> I find they work better on active pickups BTW.



I've gotten great results with both actives and passives, in many guitars. Depending on your interface and DI, you may need to make adjustments depending on pickups. Every amp in the suite has -24/+24 dB of input trim gain on tap, which is stored at the preset level.


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## steelyad (Jun 30, 2016)

Here's a question for you - I usually track at about -12dBfs for plenty of headroom (I think in analog levels for several reasons). If I boost my input gain above the point where if would, in theory, clip, does the plugin have additional internal headroom so it'll act like a boost pedal and not just square-wave clip?
Cheers


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## Kazrog (Jun 30, 2016)

steelyad said:


> Here's a question for you - I usually track at about -12dBfs for plenty of headroom (I think in analog levels for several reasons). If I boost my input gain above the point where if would, in theory, clip, does the plugin have additional internal headroom so it'll act like a boost pedal and not just square-wave clip?
> Cheers



It takes a lot of gain before you really start to even push the virtual tubes into audible soft clipping. Every model in the suite has more headroom on tap than any real tube amp, actually, as the lower points along the gain knob taper are usable until you reach actual 0.0. This is an intentional design decision that allows for extra sonic possibilities, such as playing true cleans on a lead channel (some of them sound quite excellent this way.)


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## Descent (Jun 30, 2016)

steelyad said:


> Here's a question for you - I usually track at about -12dBfs for plenty of headroom (I think in analog levels for several reasons). If I boost my input gain above the point where if would, in theory, clip, does the plugin have additional internal headroom so it'll act like a boost pedal and not just square-wave clip?
> Cheers




"Input trim" and "saturation" are actually really cool on this design. You can play with these to get better gain staging. I noticed that you can change the whole response structure on these with it, which is cool.


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## RobPhoboS (Sep 23, 2016)

Cheers for the vid !

I downloaded the demo last night to have a quick twag around but I found it horrendously noisy and like it was taking away attack, I'm wondering if there is something specific I needed to set in FLStudio as it seems a bit odd.
I'm going from my guitar into a decimator 2, then into an audient iD14 into FL.

Aside from the weird attack issue, would you put a noise gate after the amp but before the cab, or just after the cab ?


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## steelyad (Sep 23, 2016)

RobPhoboS said:


> Cheers for the vid !
> 
> I downloaded the demo last night to have a quick twag around but I found it horrendously noisy and like it was taking away attack, I'm wondering if there is something specific I needed to set in FLStudio as it seems a bit odd.
> I'm going from my guitar into a decimator 2, then into an audient iD14 into FL.
> ...



Hey man

Just so you know, virtual amps aren't noisy at all, that is to say they don't add any, they will however amplify any noise you already had. Are you running into a preamp set in "Instrument" mode? If not, the impedance will be wrong and will bring in additional noise and probably soften off your transients as well.
As for the decimator - don't use it. If you need noise gating, do it digitally - analog noise gates play well with analog gear but not so much with digital interfaces.
Also, how high were your gain controls? You may find they don't need to be up so high to get a really beefy tone with a lot of these amps.


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## NosralTserrof (Feb 19, 2017)

Bumping this thread:

These plugins are goddamn amazing. I used them in my band's latest single (warning: not metal) and they respond and sound like real amps. Crazy. 


Also the new amps/pedal sims that are out are sick. Absolutely nails (lol) the HM2 tone.


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## heathenhotel (Feb 20, 2017)

I have purchased literally every bit of guitar software out there. I had really high hopes for thermionik and I liked it at first but it did take a lot of tweaking to get something really usable. Then Mercuriall came out with the U530 and Spark plus ENGL has their two plugins plus TSE and the x50 2.0, after that, I deleted all the thermionik stuff because it just couldn't compare.


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## Carl Kolchak (Feb 20, 2017)

Being just a livingroom recorder, I neither have the pc skills or the money to make the Thermionik amp sims sound as good as some of the clips I've heard. This is why something like BIAS FX is ideal for someone like myself, as the ability "point and click" a signal chain in one handy track is a godsend.


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## heathenhotel (Feb 20, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Being just a livingroom recorder, I neither have the pc skills or the money to make the Thermionik amp sims sound as good as some of the clips I've heard. This is why something like BIAS FX is ideal for someone like myself, as the ability "point and click" a signal chain in one handy track is a godsend.



The positive grid stuff is a bunch of turds wrapped in pretty wrapping paper. Positive grid use their graphics and their PAID endorsements to suck people into buying half assed sounding and usually broken products with tons of bugs. But how could big names be wrong you ask? Positive grid paid them money and then those guys lathered the PG products with loads of other plugins to get them to sound good. Sure their stuff is easy to use but easy isn't always good. If you want to be able to get a great tone with little to no effort, pick up the two Mercuriall sims (spark/U530) for cheap and you will have great tone right away. I am a livingroom recorder too but quality is attainable for low costs. Get the two Mercuriall plugin free versions and see how easy it is to dial in sick tone.


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## niffnoff (Feb 20, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Being just a livingroom recorder, I neither have the pc skills or the money to make the Thermionik amp sims sound as good as some of the clips I've heard. This is why something like BIAS FX is ideal for someone like myself, as the ability "point and click" a signal chain in one handy track is a godsend.



Impulses matter how you want to make your tone sound. Also sometimes adding a screamer helps. But, also the mix tone vs. a tone out of a mix is a huge difference.


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## Carl Kolchak (Feb 21, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> The positive grid stuff is a bunch of turds wrapped in pretty wrapping paper. Positive grid use their graphics and their PAID endorsements to suck people into buying half assed sounding and usually broken products with tons of bugs. But how could big names be wrong you ask? Positive grid paid them money and then those guys lathered the PG products with loads of other plugins to get them to sound good. Sure their stuff is easy to use but easy isn't always good. If you want to be able to get a great tone with little to no effort, pick up the two Mercuriall sims (spark/U530) for cheap and you will have great tone right away. I am a livingroom recorder too but quality is attainable for low costs. Get the two Mercuriall plugin free versions and see how easy it is to dial in sick tone.



For me, it's not so much about getting a good tone, but just trying to keep the ones I get from sucking as much as possible. 

I tried both of Mercuriall's free versions of their Spark and U530 sims, but don't really think they're a significant improvement over the TSE X50 to warrant dropping another $50-$100 on.


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## steelyad (Feb 21, 2017)

If anyone's interested, there's now a Thermionik Screamer which works very nicely, and 2 Diezel VH4 amps in there (blue and silver face) which are tighter than a nun's hoohoo.

And an SVT for fat bass tones which really grits up and saturates like the real thing. I used the Amplitube SVT classic for years, but even on full gain it never gave me that hefty tone.


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## heathenhotel (Feb 26, 2017)

steelyad said:


> If anyone's interested, there's now a Thermionik Screamer which works very nicely, and 2 Diezel VH4 amps in there (blue and silver face) which are tighter than a nun's hoohoo.
> 
> And an SVT for fat bass tones which really grits up and saturates like the real thing. I used the Amplitube SVT classic for years, but even on full gain it never gave me that hefty tone.



Where did you try any of those plugins when they haven't been released yet? I pre-ordered the overdrive legends pack and the site still has yet to post them. There's no free/beta versions available either.


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## NosralTserrof (Feb 26, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> Where did you try any of those plugins when they haven't been released yet? I pre-ordered the overdrive legends pack and the site still has yet to post them. There's no free/beta versions available either.



Have you checked your email? There might be a registration thing there. If you look at the website you should see a demo for the complete collection vol. 1.


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## steelyad (Feb 26, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> Where did you try any of those plugins when they haven't been released yet? I pre-ordered the overdrive legends pack and the site still has yet to post them. There's no free/beta versions available either.



They're most definitely out.

If you want to download the complete collection, it's up on Kazrog's website.

I emailed Shane from Kazrog asking when they would be out, so he let me know the minute they were released - it may look like I had the jump on everyone, but not the case!


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## heathenhotel (Feb 26, 2017)

Weird, I have been going to the site and checking my available downloads. I just assumed they were delayed like the release of the newest recabinet. I'll email Shane. Thanks


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## steelyad (Mar 3, 2017)

http://kazrog.com/products/kazrog-complete-collection-1/kazrog-complete-collection-1-downloads/

Right there buddy.


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## niffnoff (Mar 3, 2017)

steelyad said:


> http://kazrog.com/products/kazrog-complete-collection-1/kazrog-complete-collection-1-downloads/
> 
> Right there buddy.



Was gonna say, weird he didn't notice it. I thought I had an early access copy for a second.


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## IdentityDevice (Mar 6, 2017)

Am I correct that I think I saw that when you buy the amps the CPU load goes down? I remember liking them but the demo's were super heavy on my CPU.


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## LeviathanKiller (Mar 7, 2017)

IdentityDevice said:


> Am I correct that I think I saw that when you buy the amps the CPU load goes down? I remember liking them but the demo's were super heavy on my CPU.



 WOAHHH, now way. Is this for real?
I was having issues and I came to the conclusion that maybe it was specifically the Thermionik amps. If this is true then I may have actually found the issue after all this time. I liked them but haven't really gotten to test them fully but for about an hour. No way am I going to keep and purchase these if they are constantly breaking up like they currently do. 

Here's my issue thread
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=319924


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## niffnoff (Mar 7, 2017)

LeviathanKiller said:


> WOAHHH, now way. Is this for real?
> I was having issues and I came to the conclusion that maybe it was specifically the Thermionik amps. If this is true then I may have actually found the issue after all this time. I liked them but haven't really gotten to test them fully but for about an hour. No way am I going to keep and purchase these if they are constantly breaking up like they currently do.
> 
> Here's my issue thread
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=319924



Eh? I find them super low in CPU usage...

I got like 8 instances on one project and the only "Hog" is the impulses and post processing I have on my bass.


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## IdentityDevice (Mar 11, 2017)

I could of swore I remember reading that on either their site or a site that was talking about them or something. Like it was a common issue for a lot of people or something.


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## steelyad (Mar 11, 2017)

Sounds like you've got a conspiracy theory going there, i'll get the tinfoil to make the hats.

Maybe you had a slightly older version for the demo, and when you bought it you downloaded a more refined one? Just an idea. It sounds like something pointless for a developer, why would they make a demo that's a CPU hog? Surely that would convince you NOT to buy it.


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## IdentityDevice (Mar 11, 2017)

steelyad said:


> Sounds like you've got a conspiracy theory going there, i'll get the tinfoil to make the hats.
> 
> Maybe you had a slightly older version for the demo, and when you bought it you downloaded a more refined one? Just an idea. It sounds like something pointless for a developer, why would they make a demo that's a CPU hog? Surely that would convince you NOT to buy it.



No I read it on like the official site I think. And quite the opposite. If you love the tone, buying it would make it not hot the CPU so you'd want to buy it. That would be the crutch of it. Like how some have the hiss or the audio drop outs. I know I read it somewhere but it was a while ago. Maybe the creator can chime in and confirm or deny?


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## LeviathanKiller (Mar 11, 2017)

All I know is that the demo I downloaded in the past month is unusable for me in a 2-track situation despite other VSTs working just fine in the same situation.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 12, 2017)

There was an update that caused huge spikes in CPU when you used the depth switch which has since been addressed so maybe the demo still uses that version.


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## LeviathanKiller (Mar 12, 2017)

What is the current version of the paid sims?
This demo version is 5.0.3.

It seems like disabling the Depth switch has helped but it still breaks up here and there at random


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## niffnoff (Mar 12, 2017)

5.0.5 I believe


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## heathenhotel (Mar 13, 2017)

I sat reading this thread and decided to give it another shot. I reinstalled all of the amp sims again and got to work. I recorded 6 tracks of guitar with different guitars and different pickups then I sat working with sim after sim and cab after cab. While I love the no graphics no nonsense approach Shane took when building all the sims and he did work hard on a lot of aspects but after playing with the amps, saving chains and so on, the main thing that comes out at me is that a lot of the sims sound the same and few of them really have much in common with the amps they are modeled after. 

That said, I think he has a fantastic start to things and a lot of talent. His stuff is only going to get better and better but right now, there's nothing useful for me personally when put up against even 5+ year old freeware like the Poulin sims. Thermionik is still about 100 worlds better than all the dog.... BIAS is putting out.


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## LeviathanKiller (Apr 30, 2017)

Pretty much the only model I like is the Serpent. Still demoing some of the others to see if I want to buy a pack but this the one I keep coming back to. I may just buy it only.

Here's a sound clip of the Serpent
http://www.mediafire.com/file/v9e61aw7m9dstz5/20170430_1704.mp3


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## Kazrog (Apr 30, 2017)

IdentityDevice said:


> Am I correct that I think I saw that when you buy the amps the CPU load goes down? I remember liking them but the demo's were super heavy on my CPU.



Absolutely NOT. I would NEVER do something like that. Thanks for spreading untrue rumors, it really helps developers when you do that.


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## Kazrog (Apr 30, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> There was an update that caused huge spikes in CPU when you used the depth switch which has since been addressed so maybe the demo still uses that version.



No. The demo is the full version, with a 14 day trial. You authorize the plugin after buying it by logging into via the About tab in any Kazrog plugin window.

Obviously, if someone has an older version they downloaded a while back, that would be the explanation for an older version on their system.


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## Elric (May 24, 2017)

Hey Kazrog: I have been getting into Thermionik again, using the latest complete pack. It is great for metal but one thing I find odd about it is Thermionik does not seem to model amp Volume controls at all... (if I am understanding the UI correctly). 

The output control is documented and appears to function as a plugin level control whereas amp volume controls have a ginormous effect on tone (As I'm sure you understand  ) and interact with the power amp. Models of NVM amps like the JTM 45 et al suffer greatly for this and even some higher gainers that have do have master volumes can be tweaked for response (tightness/looseness) by adjusting the Master Volume but again without it being modeled this can't be done.

Base tones are great but just strikes me as a surprising limitation given the completeness of the control set, etc.


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## steelyad (May 26, 2017)

Elric - that's "saturation" at the bottom right. I think the naming could be a little clearer but that controls power amp saturation (same as "volume" on a master volume amp) to make the power tubes saturate more. The "output" is more literal, so you can dime the power section and take the level hitting the cab emulation down to match. I do this all the time with the Plexi model etc, have that on 10 and all the EQ pretty high to simulate that "dimed" effect.


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## Elric (May 26, 2017)

steelyad said:


> Elric - that's "saturation" at the bottom right. I think the naming could be a little clearer but that controls power amp saturation (same as "volume" on a master volume amp) to make the power tubes saturate more. The "output" is more literal, so you can dime the power section and take the level hitting the cab emulation down to match. I do this all the time with the Plexi model etc, have that on 10 and all the EQ pretty high to simulate that "dimed" effect.


Wow, thanks steelyad! I had thought it was like a saturation control for a preamp gain stage (similar to how the AxeFx 2 has a preamp saturation switch and level control). That is a great tip. I figured Kazrog would have this covered somehow. Time to give that a deeper look. I know I had been critical of the interface stuff on Thermionik in the past but, man, I am getting some great sounds with it of late. It is really climbing up my list of favorite amp sims rapidly and I'm sure this info will help me out even more.


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## ThePhilosopher (May 31, 2017)

I just purchased two of these packs (now that Reason supports VSTs), and I must say I really like the Ogre Excess and FB100 (enough to make me consider ditching my HD500). I would really like to try the VH4 sims, but they are much higher CPU usage than the other sims in the pack.


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## BlueTrident (Jun 8, 2017)

Just as a heads up, the Serpent is free for a limited time!


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## fob (Jun 8, 2017)

BlueTrident said:


> Just as a heads up, the Serpent is free for a limited time!


Would you mind linking to it?


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## BlueTrident (Jun 8, 2017)

fob said:


> Would you mind linking to it?


http://kazrog.com/2017/06/01/free-t...il&utm_term=0_aef5987c95-bad9c6382c-389302857


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## RustInPeace (Jun 19, 2017)

Just downloaded the trial version on the weekend. I am really happy with this blended tone I got with a Mark IV and 5153. Will be purchasing those amps for sure.
https://soundcloud.com/rust-in-peace117/thermionik-test-1


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## schwiz (Jun 19, 2017)

I used Damage this weekend and it's good!


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## Metropolis (Mar 28, 2018)

I bought M4 and Psycho C, both are killer. 5150III for in your face hi-gain tones, and Mark IV for diversity to do almost everything.


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 28, 2018)

I tried them, but they just sound like total shit for me for some reason. The inbuilt presets for any of the sims are SUPER noisy, far too much gain, tone is total mush. 

I'm running good guitars (both active and passive pickups) into a good interface (Apogee DUET), running the plugin in Logic. I have Ownhammer and Rosen impulses. Nothing is clipping at input. Other plugins like TSE sound great. 

Is there some control I'm missing somewhere? I know that something is wrong because it definitely shouldn't sound this bad.


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## Metropolis (Mar 29, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> I tried them, but they just sound like total shit for me for some reason. The inbuilt presets for any of the sims are SUPER noisy, far too much gain, tone is total mush.
> 
> I'm running good guitars (both active and passive pickups) into a good interface (Apogee DUET), running the plugin in Logic. I have Ownhammer and Rosen impulses. Nothing is clipping at input. Other plugins like TSE sound great.
> 
> Is there some control I'm missing somewhere? I know that something is wrong because it definitely shouldn't sound this bad.



That's weird, for me these are clearest sounding amp sims I have ever used. Do you use a noise gate with them? Note that inbuilt presets have gain and saturation knobs almost at maximum level. And that's not really what you want. Okay, I tried factory presets for the first time and they are awful as always.

At front controls section there is saturation knob, which simulates how poweramp tubes react in real amps, almost like a master volume. I tend to dial it down somewhere between 3-4.5 for tighter and colder sound, and compensate it with output volume knob.

Options section has input trim and quality knobs which may affect also, I dial in input gain inside the plugin about -1.5db. Boosting too much with tubescreamer can cause signal clipping, so keep levels controlled in there too.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 29, 2018)

I wouldn't bother with the presets, I don't think i've ever come across a hi-gain preset on any device or amp sim that ever worked. A noise gate is a must, he was working on a guitar aimed noisegate VST and I occasionally bug him about it but it hasn't been released yet.

Try TSE 808 neutral settings, Psycho C with the gain, input and depth lowered to taste, cycle through some Rosen Digital impulses until you find one that works, hi pass, low pass, cut some 4k and you should have a good tone.


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## Metropolis (Mar 29, 2018)

For setup that I use Rosen Digital ir's always sounded like caricature of a guitar cabinet. Super boomy low end and very fizzy top end is just something that doesn't fit.

Jon from Sonic Drive Studio has a really nice tutorial about how Ownhammer impulses work with Thermionik 5.


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## tender_insanity (Mar 30, 2018)

I've bought the modern classics 1 license. At first I was thrilled about them but not so much anymore. Still, the best 6505 emulation to my ears comes from ReValver 4. 
For Engl stuff the Mercuriall U530 and ReValver's Angel are good to go. For Mesas I prefer Mercuriall and ReValver as well. From my library, Kazrog and Overloud TH3 are
the most unused ones.


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 31, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> That's weird, for me these are clearest sounding amp sims I have ever used. Do you use a noise gate with them? Note that inbuilt presets have gain and saturation knobs almost at maximum level. And that's not really what you want. Okay, I tried factory presets for the first time and they are awful as always.
> 
> At front controls section there is saturation knob, which simulates how poweramp tubes react in real amps, almost like a master volume. I tend to dial it down somewhere between 3-4.5 for tighter and colder sound, and compensate it with output volume knob.
> 
> Options section has input trim and quality knobs which may affect also, I dial in input gain inside the plugin about -1.5db. Boosting too much with tubescreamer can cause signal clipping, so keep levels controlled in there too.



Based on all these comments, I decided to try the Kazrog stuff again. I did a complete uninstall, downloaded the install manager again, let it download and install everything...

And they're great. Straight away, useable sounds from the models that I tried. The presets aren't brilliant (when are they ever), but they're nowhere near as terrible as before.

No idea what had gone wrong, but it's fixed now


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## axxessdenied (Mar 31, 2018)

I own everything from kazrog. Killer stuff. thermionik + good ir + soothe + renaissance axx. takes zero effort to dial in a good sound.


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