# Budget 5 String Bass



## Selkoid (Apr 12, 2017)

Hey guys, i'm looking for a 5 string bass to track with and trying to get the most bang for my buck. What models should I be looking at? Most likely going straight into reaper / use VSTs with it, I just need something to get into that frequency space without programming or pitch shifting a guitar.


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## TedEH (Apr 12, 2017)

In terms of starter basses, I predict you're going to get two different sets of answers -

If you're playing in standard, a Squier J or P bass will do the trick and (IMO) sound pretty decent. The scale length isn't particularly long though, so drop tuning on one of these might not be a great idea.

If you're drop tuning, or not super comfortable with a bass compared to guitar, then the more common recommendation I see on here is to go for any Ibanez bass in your price range. The scale will be longer, and their necks are more guitarist-friendly. I would guess they're not going to sound as good though, since I think those are mostly active basses, and starter level onboard preamps aren't super great in my experience.


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## bostjan (Apr 12, 2017)

As far as five strings, I've owned a Fender, a Dean, an Ibanez, a Dingwall, and a Brice. 

The Dean Edge 5Q isn't in production anymore, from what I can tell, the Dingwall is expensive, and the Brice more mid-priced.

My recommendation, though, would be to try the budget Ibanezes out. They are really easy to track down, and you can score one for a song. Personally, I didn't really gel with the ergonomics of the Ibanez 5's. I love their 4's (same goes for Fender), but I like just a little more room, and Ibanez basses feel scrunched to me, since they are 34" scale and have such a narrow string spacing compared to other basses. Honestly, though, if I had to buy a five string on a really tight budget ($200, say), I'd probably go for a Hadean (Rondo), personally.

It's all personal preference, though.


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## Selkoid (Apr 12, 2017)

bostjan said:


> As far as five strings, I've owned a Fender, a Dean, an Ibanez, a Dingwall, and a Brice.
> 
> The Dean Edge 5Q isn't in production anymore, from what I can tell, the Dingwall is expensive, and the Brice more mid-priced.
> 
> ...




The ibanez SR series has definitely been on my radar the last few weeks i've been looking. Does higher model number equate to higher quality with these? If i increment up the series (305 to 405 to 505) are there going to be big differences? Honestly, I just want something that is going to be able to play things an octave lower than a guitar (drop C, AGCFAD) stay in tune, and have solid intonation.

Thanks for your input!


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## LeviathanKiller (Apr 12, 2017)

Or a B-stock Brice for $240 from RondoMusic
http://www.rondomusic.com/product9228.html


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## bostjan (Apr 12, 2017)

AGCFAD?!

I think that any modern bass guitar should have adjustable intonation.

If you are thinking SR series, then I supposed I assumed your budget a little too low. If you can try out an SR305 and compare it to an SR405, then I bet you'll be able to make a solid decision. These are really decent quality workhorse basses. Personally, I don't think there is that much of a difference between the SR300 and SR400 series basses - IIRC, the electronics are different and the bridge is a little different.



LeviathanKiller said:


> Or a B-stock Brice for $240 from RondoMusic
> http://www.rondomusic.com/product9228.html



Cool! That's more up my alley. I don't think the crease in the veneer should be a big deal unless you are staring at the top up close. My Brice has a really thin top on it, too; you can see the body wood underneath it in a few spots, so it's bass-ically tissue paper. The 35" scale and wider string spacing should be a joy to play.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 12, 2017)

Grab one of these:

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msg/6062897396.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/msg/6060949119.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/msg/6082882265.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/5999219789.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/6078814691.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msg/6076827192.html


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## AkiraSpectrum (Apr 12, 2017)

What is your budget? Do you prefer new or is used okay? 
-I highly recommend looking into used basses in good condition. Usually Ibanez 5-strings are quite common on the used market and you can find some good deals on them. 
-I just grabbed a used Korean (2002) Ibanez SR405nt in really good condition for ~$185 USD ($250 CDN). http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=321098


If you want to go new I'd suggest aiming for something that is in the $400 range to get something that will be solid for recording.


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## LordCashew (Apr 12, 2017)

I'd definitely go used if you want a "budget" instrument. If I personally had to get a cheap five right now, I'd go...

Easy to play (for most people coming from guitar, at least): used SR505. 

Classic tone that sits well in a mix: used passive MIM Fender. Hell, even used MIJ Fender if you look around... I got an old MB-5 for $250 on ebay and it's a hell of a bass for that price.

Those craigslist links Max posted look like great deals. Plus you'd have a chance to see how the instrument feels.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Apr 12, 2017)

TedEH said:


> In terms of starter basses, I predict you're going to get two different sets of answers -
> 
> If you're playing in standard, a Squier J or P bass will do the trick and (IMO) sound pretty decent. The scale length isn't particularly long though, so drop tuning on one of these might not be a great idea.
> 
> If you're drop tuning, or not super comfortable with a bass compared to guitar, then the more common recommendation I see on here is to go for any Ibanez bass in your price range. *The scale will be longer*, and their necks are more guitarist-friendly. I would guess they're not going to sound as good though, since I think those are mostly active basses, and starter level onboard preamps aren't super great in my experience.




That's not necessarily true. Statistically, it's more likely to untrue than true. The BTB series is 35" (well, except the one that's 33"...), but every other 5 they make is 34", just like a P or J would be.


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## TedEH (Apr 13, 2017)

Yeah, you're probably right. I like to recommend plain ol' J and P basses, cause I find it's a very easy-to-get "good" sound, even on their entry-ish level stuff, and often the criticism that receives is that the 34" is not enough, which is fair, but then the conversation turns to Dingwall and other not-entry-priced instruments, then circles back around to Ibanez.

I still think Ibanez basses seem to get a lot of love around here because they're very guitarist-friendly instruments, or at least the one's I've tried were.


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## n4t (Apr 13, 2017)

My first budget bass was an Ibanez, seems to me they have the most/best options at this price point.

I'd also suggest Peavey. I just upped to 5 string and got a used Millennium and I like it quite a bit. Initially I wanted a 35" but the options weren't there. I tune it standard so the scale isn't really an issue, though it's getting restrung as I type to get a 120 on the B.


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## bostjan (Apr 13, 2017)

n4t said:


> My first budget bass was an Ibanez, seems to me they have the most/best options at this price point.
> 
> I'd also suggest Peavey. I just upped to 5 string and got a used Millennium and I like it quite a bit. Initially I wanted a 35" but the options weren't there. I tune it standard so the scale isn't really an issue, though it's getting restrung as I type to get a 120 on the B.



Ooh, yeah, I forgot about entry level Peavey basses. Peavey makes great stuff for the money. It might not float your boat, but it's worth taking a minute to consider.

If 35" scale is preferable over 34" scale, for the price range of the SR205, you could also check out a Schecter or a Jackson. I think the Schecter is a more bass-like bass, versus the more guitar-like Ibanez. You might find that to be a plus or a minus, though, but it is a difference you might want to consider.

Have you tried any basses yet? If so, what did you like or dislike about the basses you tried?

Also, I'm totally at a loss over your tuning. You have almost an octave between your two lowest strings? And you alternate between that and regular drop C - so what is your ideal bass tuning then? Maybe CGCF for the highest four, and then A0 for the 5th string? That puts a weird interval between the fourth and fifth strings, but it might work for you. If you are not going to use the low A, though, you might not really need a 5 string bass.


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## Selkoid (Apr 13, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Grab one of these:
> 
> https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/msg/6062897396.html
> https://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/msg/6060949119.html
> ...



Hey thanks! I forgot to change my location when I moved (now in West Palm Beach, FL), but I still have some friends that I can have take a look at a few of these for me. 



AkiraSpectrum said:


> What is your budget? Do you prefer new or is used okay?
> -I highly recommend looking into used basses in good condition. Usually Ibanez 5-strings are quite common on the used market and you can find some good deals on them.
> -I just grabbed a used Korean (2002) Ibanez SR405nt in really good condition for ~$185 USD ($250 CDN). http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=321098
> 
> If you want to go new I'd suggest aiming for something that is in the $400 range to get something that will be solid for recording.



I'm more than okay with used, I've actually never owned a new instrument! I see tons of the SR405/SR505s on ebay, I'm going to try and hunt one down locally to try it out.




bostjan said:


> Ooh, yeah, I forgot about entry level Peavey basses. Peavey makes great stuff for the money. It might not float your boat, but it's worth taking a minute to consider.
> 
> If 35" scale is preferable over 34" scale, for the price range of the SR205, you could also check out a Schecter or a Jackson. I think the Schecter is a more bass-like bass, versus the more guitar-like Ibanez. You might find that to be a plus or a minus, though, but it is a difference you might want to consider.
> 
> ...



How much of a difference is there between 34-35" scale length on a bass? Is it a similar jump from 25.5 to 26.5 on guitar? The longer scale length might be preferable for down tuning, I've got a 7 string I play on quite a bit too. 

I've played some midrange ESP basses and a friends fender jazz deluxe that I really liked the feel of. I understand it's a different instrument, so of course there is an adjustment period, so feeling like a guitar isn't necessarily THAT important to me. 

In regards to tuning, I seriously have no idea how bass players tune to play with dropped guitar tunings. It would probably make more sense to play a 4 string bass CGCF with drop C guitars right? As far as AGCFAD tuning goes, it's a periphery tuning that I heard years ago and have gotten familiar with, just something that I like the sound of. As far as tuning a bass to correspond with that tuning, I have no clue. Tuning up a 5 string bass seems like it would create more problems than it would solve, again maybe a 4 string bass would be more appropriate for this.

All the insight is greatly appreciated, thank you guys.


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## crg123 (Apr 13, 2017)

http://www.rondomusic.com/product8674.html If you're willing to spend a bit more this looks pretty rad. 35" scale too for your A tuning.


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## bostjan (Apr 13, 2017)

Selkoid said:


> How much of a difference is there between 34-35" scale length on a bass? Is it a similar jump from 25.5 to 26.5 on guitar? The longer scale length might be preferable for down tuning, I've got a 7 string I play on quite a bit too.



Seriously, it's fairly subtle. The low B typically sounds better to me on a 35" scale bass, but I think only partly due to the scale length. I bet that the fact that the bass is 35" suggests that the manufacturer is more aware of the low B, so other things about the design might be more appropriate for lower tuning. I have a couple of 34" scale instruments, and I, personally, don't jive with them unless I'm avoiding having a low B on them.

As far as feel goes, it's all about the sum of the designs of the instrument. I have a Dingwall NG-2, and it's the most comfortable bass I own, despite the scale length, but there are tons of ergonomic features that my other basses don't have. My least ergonomic bass is my Fender Jazz V Standard. It had some good thump to it, but playing that thing is like thumb wrestling an octopus.



Selkoid said:


> I've played some midrange ESP basses and a friends fender jazz deluxe that I really liked the feel of. I understand it's a different instrument, so of course there is an adjustment period, so feeling like a guitar isn't necessarily THAT important to me.
> 
> In regards to tuning, I seriously have no idea how bass players tune to play with dropped guitar tunings. It would probably make more sense to play a 4 string bass CGCF with drop C guitars right? As far as AGCFAD tuning goes, it's a periphery tuning that I heard years ago and have gotten familiar with, just something that I like the sound of. As far as tuning a bass to correspond with that tuning, I have no clue. Tuning up a 5 string bass seems like it would create more problems than it would solve, again maybe a 4 string bass would be more appropriate for this.



I'm a bit odd, but, what I like to do, is to tune the bass in fourths with the lowest note tuned an octave and one whole step down from the guitar. For example: Guitar (low to high): EADGBE, bass: DGCF // Guitar: DADGBE, bass: CFBbEb // Guitar: BEADGBE, bass: ADGCF // Guitar: AEADGBE, bass: GCFBbEb etc.

For me, it keeps me from approaching the bass as a big guitar. Sometimes the guitar riff can be really busy, and the bass needs to just sit still and thump out quarter notes, or play the arpeggio of the implied chords in eighth notes, and sometimes a guitar riff is really simplistic, and the bass can texture the song up nicely by mirroring the guitar riff by going counterpoint. Other times you just want a nice tight one octave doubling. I don't think I'm a great bass player, but I think I at least do what I can to keep the bass parts interesting in the context of the song.


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## ghostOG (Apr 13, 2017)

I got a new spector legend 5 in blue at my local music shop for $480... it was marked down, but you can get them used too. It has a 35" scale and I tune to A standard with low action. 

You could also check out Warwick Rockbass stuff, Schecter, ESP LTD. Personally, I hate Ibanez and Fender basses for metal.


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## LordCashew (Apr 13, 2017)

Selkoid said:


> How much of a difference is there between 34-35" scale length on a bass? Is it a similar jump from 25.5 to 26.5 on guitar? The longer scale length might be preferable for down tuning, I've got a 7 string I play on quite a bit too.



Proportionately, it's actually a smaller jump than 25.5" to 26.5" and feels as much IMO.

I've never had a problem getting a good low B on a 34" bass with the right set of strings. Someone may have mentioned it already, but appropriate strings are significantly more important to achieving good tone in a given tuning than scale length. Though I don't _personally_ tune down to A on a 34" bass, there are enough guys getting good low Gs and Fs on 35" basses with Kalium strings to make a solid 34" A seem quite doable. Christian Olde Wolbers tuned to A on Fenders IIRC, and I'm sure others have as well.

Don't get me wrong, scale length _does_ make a difference. There's a reason Dingwalls sound so good in B and below, and the 37" scale is part of it - though certainly not the only part. But for your stated purposes and tunings, I wouldn't make the 34" to 35" difference a determining factor. I think in your case, playability and overall tone would probably be more important.


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## randomas (Apr 15, 2017)

Check cort and yamaha out too.


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## Jake (Apr 16, 2017)

So I'm not a bass player but obviously need basses for recording purposes. I picked up an Ibanez SR505 for $120 which for the quality you get is one hell of a deal. The other guitarist in my band has the SR505 with the wenge/bubinga neck as well and that thing is a beast too. I really like the SR's and think for the prices you can pick them up for on reverb or GC used online it's definitely worth it.


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## Splenetic (Apr 16, 2017)

Yeh i got a SRA555 a while back in a part trade/part cash deally. 

It's a beast. Changed how I look at Chinese instruments.


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## A-Branger (Apr 17, 2017)

Sorry for my rant againts Fender/Squire, but I would say to stay away from them at least for the 5 strings. Yes, they sound great. For me the Jazz is the one, I hate the sound of the P alone, a PJ is fine. Unless you play a P bass with a pick, then its ok, but finger style a P sounds "empty" to me.

But my rant againts Fender basses is about the size and weight of them. Every single Fender bass I have pickup in a store to try had massive neck dive problems. And when I say massive, Im talking about a bass dropping when you are sitting down!!. I have had guitars with neck dive when standing up, but sitting now never was an issue. The cutaway of these basses is not designed for it. I have no idea how people can talk that much about them. I spend the whole time fighting the neck dive with either my left hand or by holding the bass with my right arm. I have NEVER had any issues with any of the Ibanez basses I had owned and played, Including a SR, EDA, and BTB

Reason why ppl love the Ibanez basses is because they are "small" and light. They are 24 fret, so this pushes the bass body to be smaller vs a 20 fret Fender where the horns has to be at the 20th fret mark instead of a 24. Also they have a far smaller headstock with small pegs. Usually this helps on the neck dive part. Also Ibanez 5 strings tends to have a smaller string spacing and a flatter "normal" fretboard radius like 14-16", Fender or other "traditional" basses usually go to 9.5" for the Squire


Another cheap good option is a Sterling by MusicMan, the SUB series are pretty dam cheap, or spend a bit more and get the RAy35. Great sound. But also suffer from head heavy necks

Basses sound change A LOT according to the pickup configuration. SO I would recommend you to try them and do some re-search on each sound, Humbuckers/JJ/PJ/P/MM/JMM, each have a particular sound, go to youtube for some comparos, once you find the sound that you like, then start searching what bass comes with that. 



Selkoid said:


> In regards to tuning, I seriously have no idea how bass players tune to play with dropped guitar tunings. It would probably make more sense to play a 4 string bass CGCF with drop C guitars right? As far as AGCFAD tuning goes, it's a periphery tuning that I heard years ago and have gotten familiar with, just something that I like the sound of. As far as tuning a bass to correspond with that tuning, I have no clue. Tuning up a 5 string bass seems like it would create more problems than it would solve, again maybe a 4 string bass would be more appropriate for this.
> 
> All the insight is greatly appreciated, thank you guys.



AS for tunnings, You can have any tunnign that you want on the bass. Having the same tuning as the guitar would help you to learn stuff across eassier tho.

Tunning up a 5 string bass to reach dropC is a better approach than tuning down a 4 string. For a quick solution, yes, for long term neither is better. You have to buy a dedicated string set.

Yes, C is right next to the B so it makes sense. But to tune up E to G (and same with the others. Is as far as tuning down an A to G. One is too much tension, the other is too little is you have a "normal" string set.

Only difference between using a 5 string or a 4 string is the high string. Either you have a CGCF, in the other you have CGCFA# up to you if you are going to use the high string or not. An added bonus of the 5 string is that you wont have to file the nut to accomodate the ticker strings.

Im in the same spot too as Im starting to play with a band with dropC tunning for a few songs, rest are in standard B. So I had to grab my old 5 string and tune it up. Works fine for now (I just need to adjust the trussrod and intonation), but the tension is too much for me. So Im getting a new set of strings. I re-search and for now the only string set I can buy that its available commercially in brands (not custom), is to get a light set 4 string of .040/.060/.075/.095 and buy a single .130 for the lowC 

this set would give me a tension similar to a 5 string bass with a normal 45/65/85/105/130 string set tunned to standard B. bit more tension in some strings, but not that much. So the feeling would be similar. At least better than what it is now


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## bostjan (Apr 17, 2017)

A-Branger said:


> Fender/Squire



 Fender basses are traditional style, for sure. Typically traditional instruments are not perfectly suited for metal, but, of course, there are plenty of exceptions.

My grievances with Fender are different from yours. Fender 5 strings are just traditional 4 string basses with a wider neck and extra string. There really isn't any thought put into it beyond that, seemingly. I think the pickups and electronics you see in a 5 string Ibanez are simply more mindful of extended ranges.

For an electric bass, the size of the body means nothing outside of ergonomics. If the bass weighs 6 kg, just because the body is so huge, then there's a design issue.


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## A-Branger (Apr 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Fender basses are traditional style, for sure. Typically traditional instruments are not perfectly suited for metal, but, of course, there are plenty of exceptions.
> 
> My grievances with Fender are different from yours. Fender 5 strings are just traditional 4 string basses with a wider neck and extra string. There really isn't any thought put into it beyond that, seemingly. I think the pickups and electronics you see in a 5 string Ibanez are simply more mindful of extended ranges.
> 
> For an electric bass, the size of the body means nothing outside of ergonomics. If the bass weighs 6 kg, just because the body is so huge, then there's a design issue.



totally agree with you. These are old designs meant to augment the guitar design. IMO these were never designed for a bass.

Part of the heaviness of the body/size comes with the lack of frets. Basses shapes go from the horns till the bridge, so having more frets means a smaller body  

And agree with the electronics. IMO get a bass with an active EQ, so you can cut/boost frequencies.

as for Fender style not being for metal I disagree. A Jazz style pickup (regardless of the bass used) its a great sound for metal, I love the growl/bite of the single coil pickup. I just hate the look lol, so I rather a humbucker style, voiced like a single


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## bostjan (Apr 17, 2017)

Google search for "best metal bass," and you'll come up with Ibanez.

I did a search for most well known metal bassists, and the only ones playing Fender were Steve Harris and Geddy Lee. Surprisingly, there were a lot of Rickenbacker-wielders: Lemmy, Cliff Burton, Steve Digiorgio, etc.

I think in this era, playing a J Bass in a metal band screams "I play non-metal, but I'm in a metal band." (Aesthetically speaking) I have a Fender Jazz V, and I've tried to use it for tracking metal stuff, and always always end up grabbing something else. The tone is just missing that character that makes a good metal tone to my ears. It'd work, in a pinch, but I can't see how it'd ever be ideal with other options available.

The J Basses do offer up quite a span of different tones, though, unlike the P-Bass, which, to me, is a one- or maybe two-trick pony. It sounds great for laid back rock, though. But as the gain on the guitar goes up in the band, the P Bass tends to lose it's foothold in the mix. I think the J Bass suffers from the same effect, albeit to a lesser degree, and you do have some adjustment to hold your ground on the frequency spectrum much better than a P Bass.

But then again, I can get a fairly cheap modern bass and dial in a much wider range of tones with the higher fidelity electronics and pickups. It's just easier, for me.

The trouble with the bass is that you are squeezed into the mix just so. The drums and the guitars take up a wide range of frequencies, and you have to be able to find a spot that ties into those ranges, but occupies some unique space, too, so you can be distinguished from the other instruments. Playing style totally matters, too, because, if you end up just beefing up guitar riffs and not forging your own path for the bassline, you can sit comfortably in the shadow of the guitar's place in the mix.


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## Drew (Apr 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Fender basses are traditional style, for sure. Typically traditional instruments are not perfectly suited for metal, but, of course, there are plenty of exceptions.
> 
> My grievances with Fender are different from yours. Fender 5 strings are just traditional 4 string basses with a wider neck and extra string. There really isn't any thought put into it beyond that, seemingly. I think the pickups and electronics you see in a 5 string Ibanez are simply more mindful of extended ranges.



To be fair, Fender has been making five string basses since, what, 1965? They may not be the best thought out, but they were certainly one of the first.


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## TedEH (Apr 18, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I did a search for most well known metal bassists, and the only ones playing Fender were Steve Harris and Geddy Lee. Surprisingly, there were a lot of Rickenbacker-wielders: Lemmy, Cliff Burton, Steve Digiorgio, etc.



IMO, choosing an instrument solely because it's "the one to use in your genre" or because "x number of famous people use it" misses the point. I can pick out lots of people who play J basses in metal bands, or derivatives of it, or things that look different but use J style pickups, etc. In particular, I like the sounds Martín Méndez gets in Opeth, and I'm pretty sure he uses mostly Jazz basses. But I also really like the sound of Warwick basses. And the occasional P bass sound.

I ended up going for a passive Jazz bass for a number of reasons, but the biggest one is that it just sounded right to me- which is important because I play 100% clean, no dirt. All the basses I had before that were active and had big humbucking pickups etc, and to my ears the high end of those were all clank and no character. The J sound to me is all character instead of just unpleasant clank noises. And the tonal options available are useful instead of just slightly different. Play close to the bridge and use just the one pickup and you get that cool nasal mwaaaah sound, or do exactly the opposite and just have aaaaaaall the low end to just fill up space, or max out everything and slap the bajeezus out of it. It's all useful. No other bass I've owned could do those things very well. I feel like a clean Jazz bass is more-or-less "my sound", and any other bass I get would be competing with that.


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## bostjan (Apr 18, 2017)

Drew said:


> To be fair, Fender has been making five string basses since, what, 1965? They may not be the best thought out, but they were certainly one of the first.



Maybe '64. They were intended to be tuned with a high C, though. To be hyperbolic, though, Baja Quintos existed prior to that, and upright 5 string basses existed back to the 18th century. To be honest, though, I would love to go see a band who used a baja quinto or upright five string in a metal context.



TedEH said:


> IMO, choosing an instrument solely because it's "the one to use in your genre" or because "x number of famous people use it" misses the point.



This is true, but:

A) Who said that was the sole deciding factor?
B) Why shouldn't it be a factor of some weight?
C) Then what makes the forum's opinion valid?
and
D) We already covered the ergonomic and tonal aspects, which I believe the Fender options are just about objective in lacking. for the described purpose, in comparison with just about all of the other options already mentioned.

--------------

At the end of the day, a Fender will work in the OP's context. Maybe it will work better than an Ibanez. If I had to bet on the odds, though, I'd say that there is a significantly better chance that the Ibanez will fit the bill better than the Fender.


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## LordCashew (Apr 18, 2017)

bostjan said:


> At the end of the day, a Fender will work in the OP's context. Maybe it will work better than an Ibanez. If I had to bet on the odds, though, I'd say that there is a significantly better chance that the Ibanez will fit the bill better than the Fender.



I totally respect your opinion on this, as I know you speak from experience. With that said, I have a slightly different perspective. As I've mentioned previously, I would give the SR505 as a "go-to" recommendation for an affordable 5-string. But in my own recording experience, I've had better luck with my Fender 5 in rock contexts then even most of my "nicer" active basses.

My bass is an MB-5, basically a lightweight jazz with a shrunken body and headstock (I won't argue with what anyone has said about the ergonomics of the traditional instruments). The electronics are the same, though - passive single coils in the '60s position - and its midrange voicing just fits in the mix with minimal adjustment. And the low B sounds great. The active basses give you "more," sure... but a lot of it can encroach on the other instruments, whereas the Fender sits in its niche. Sure, you can sculpt the tone of an active bass to fit, but the end result is not quite as good as using an instrument that fits by default.

All IME, of course. And I'll admit I'm not totally clear on the exact genre the OP is going for...

Edit: I do want to mention that although I personally don't use EMGs or like how they sound when exposed, I have heard multiple instances of EMG-equipped basses sitting very well in heavy or dense mixes. And they probably perform better than a Fender would in those contexts. Even though I'd still maintain a Fender is more versatile, they aren't the best for everything.



bostjan said:


> To be honest, though, I would love to go see a band who used a baja quinto or upright five string in a metal context.



I have a 5-string acoustic upright (see avatar) and an Ergo 5-string EUB. I _personally_ would not want to play either in a metal environment - the acoustic would be a feedback nightmare, and the EUB played fingerstyle isn't different enough from a fretless bass to be worth the extra difficulty IMHO.

However, I think it would be awesome if someone who could really shred an upright with a bow ever showed up on the metal scene. That will probably not be me, lol... Other than that, there is also the huge scale length of an upright and its applicability to low tunings, but I don't want to hijack another thread with that topic...


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## TedEH (Apr 18, 2017)

I guess my point was that Fender stuff isn't "objectively" worse than anything. It might not be ideal for the OP, but it's all subjective. In 99.9% of cases I'd still take a full sized big ol' Fender bass over any Ibanez bass. As far as ergonomics, I like large instruments, and decent passive J pickups aren't any less (or more) appropriate for any particular style of music.


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## bostjan (Apr 18, 2017)

LordIronSpatula said:


> I totally respect your opinion on this, as I know you speak from experience. With that said, I have a slightly different perspective. As I've mentioned previously, I would give the SR505 as a "go-to" recommendation for an affordable 5-string. But in my own recording experience, I've had better luck with my Fender 5 in rock contexts then even most of my "nicer" active basses.
> 
> My bass is an MB-5, basically a lightweight jazz with a shrunken body and headstock (I won't argue with what anyone has said about the ergonomics of the traditional instruments). The electronics are the same, though - passive single coils in the '60s position - and its midrange voicing just fits in the mix with minimal adjustment. And the low B sounds great. The active basses give you "more," sure... but a lot of it can encroach on the other instruments, whereas the Fender sits in its niche. Sure, you can sculpt the tone of an active bass to fit, but the end result is not quite as good as using an instrument that fits by default.
> 
> ...



Maybe your Fender 5 string is just better than mine, and better than the nicer Fender five strings I've laid my hands upon.  But I bet it's a personal preference. I still have my Jazz bass, although I'm seriously considering letting it go. It's served me well for doing bluesy and funky stuff, but I've always wrestled with it and I've never really liked the sound of the low B, like I said.

I played EUB before in a kind of hard rock context. It was a blast. I rented the instrument, though, so my intonation wasn't spectacular. It was a one-off gig that just ended up being a lot of fun.

Estradasphere has some death metally parts in some of their songs, and they use an acoustic upright. The guitarist used to use a hollow body as well, but had a UV7 on a stand for the harder parts. I don't know how they pulled that stuff off without a ton of feedback. Maybe I can track them down and ask.

I guess there are a lot more folks on the forum using traditional style basses for 5 string work than I anticipated. I don't think the OP should have too much trouble finding a shop that has both Ibanez and Fender instruments in stock for a comparison.



TedEH said:


> I guess my point was that Fender stuff isn't "objectively" worse than anything. It might not be ideal for the OP, but it's all subjective. In 99.9% of cases I'd still take a full sized big ol' Fender bass over any Ibanez bass. As far as ergonomics, I like large instruments, and decent passive J pickups aren't any less (or more) appropriate for any particular style of music.



Who said anything here was objective?

Oddly enough, I like large basses as well.


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## TedEH (Apr 18, 2017)

^ You said something was 'just about objective' 



bostjan said:


> We already covered the ergonomic and tonal aspects, which I believe the Fender options are just about objective in lacking.



I may have misread what you meant to say. Also, maybe that was meant to be a comma at the end, which would changed the meaning of the sentence a fair bit.


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## bostjan (Apr 18, 2017)

Yeah, typo.

Anyway, I think my context was clear, and I think I said "IMO," "personally," etc., etc. enough in this thread to cover the fact that it's all just my opinion.

Just for the sake of discussion, have you tried other traditional style basses, that are not Fender, simply for comparison? Something like a high end Lakland or a low budget SX? Maybe it's just me, but I'd take just about any high end Fender knockoff over a high end Fender. I'm not so sure about the low end stuff, though, since Squier is really decent for the money and I have not tried the SX basses.


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## TedEH (Apr 18, 2017)

S'all good. 

I've not really tried anything that was a high-end Fender knock-off. Lots of cheap Fender rip offs though. Anything I've tried that was low-or-mid level that was trying to be Fender-ish made me just wish I had a Fender instead.

I can see the appeal of a high-end Fender-ish design building on an otherwise traditional setup though. Dingwal Super J comes to mind. At that point we're way outside of the world of "budget" basses though.


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## LordCashew (Apr 18, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Maybe your Fender 5 string is just better than mine, and better than the nicer Fender five strings I've laid my hands upon.  But I bet it's a personal preference.



It probably is preference and/or context. I doubt my bass is some sort of standout tonally.



bostjan said:


> Estradasphere has some death metally parts in some of their songs, and they use an acoustic upright. The guitarist used to use a hollow body as well, but had a UV7 on a stand for the harder parts. I don't know how they pulled that stuff off without a ton of feedback. Maybe I can track them down and ask.



That sounds really cool. I'll look them up. Thanks for sharing!


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## Grand Moff Tim (Apr 18, 2017)

I've never had balance issues with a Fender or Fender clone. I've owned Js, Ps, 4s, and 5s, and I can't recall ever having a problem with neckdive. My main live bass these days is a fretless P, and the neck stays put just fine. No idea where A-Branger is coming from on that.

I would recommend Ibby SRs to most of the guitarists asking for first bass recommendations, but certainly not because I think there's anything wrong with Fenders. It's more because SRs have necks that are much easier for a guitarist to adapt to in my opinion, so they're a decent place to start. I like my big ol' Precision neck, but I understand that metal guitarists might not.

To counterbalance the guitarist-friendly neck, though, I have to say I think most of the affordable Ibbies have pretty garbage pickups and electronics. You can get Ibbies with nice pups (my Premium BTB 5 came with Nordstrands), but the cheaper ones have near as makes no difference to useless preamps, and completely lifeless pickups. You can swap stuff out of course, but for pure out-of-the-box tone, I think a Squier or MIM Standard Jazz will sound better than a sub-$800 Ibanez all day long.


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## A-Branger (Apr 19, 2017)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> No idea where A-Branger is coming from on that.



from the last 3 Fender(squire) 5 string J basses I grab at different stores. Moment I put the bass in my lap, the bass neck just swing down like it was no tomorrow. so I had to "hold it" into place with my hands


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## Grand Moff Tim (Apr 20, 2017)

A-Branger said:


> from the last 3 Fender(squire) 5 string J basses I grab at different stores. Moment I put the bass in my lap, the bass neck just swing down like it was no tomorrow. so I had to "hold it" into place with my hands



Still can't really get where you're coming from, man. I have literally never had that problem. Maybe we just hold our basses drastically differently.


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## A-Branger (Apr 20, 2017)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Still can't really get where you're coming from, man. I have literally never had that problem. Maybe we just hold our basses drastically differently.



I just grab the bass, sit down, put it on my lap, then bass neck swing down. Neck dive might be fine for standing up. But I have never experience neck dive while sitting down and specially at this much.

with my Ibanez basses I jsut put the bass on my lap and done, they stay put I dont have to "hold it", they jsut stay. With the Fender ones I have to find a way with my hands to held it into position.

Not sure if the models I tried where heavier or something?, but that was a big impression for me, the how neck heavy they were. EVen by jsut grabbing the bass by the neck joint when I took it out of the rack, you could tell how off the balance was and how heavy the neck is


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 20, 2017)

What Fenders did you try? Jazz basses are practically designed to be balanced with the large offset body relative to a thin, in both thickness and width, neck. 

In contrast, Ibanez SR bases with 5 or more strings have been known to be neck heavy, especially the bolt-on 6s. 



Are you sure this doesn't have anything to due with you h8'ing on Fender basses at pretty much every opportunity?


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## A-Branger (Apr 20, 2017)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are you sure this doesn't have anything to due with you h8'ing on Fender basses at pretty much every opportunity?



 well now you know one of my main reasons of hate towards their basses.


but I would say that the body contours is not being designed for that purpose. They have the bottom cut (where the leg goes) further center in the body, this cut should be closer to the horns/neck to counterbalance their humongous headstock

although I do say my BTB has a little bit of neck dive, only fixed by a small push and ten it stays put or a small hold with my arm, My other Ibanez have such a small headstock and neck that it doesnt do anything, plus I got a huge horn for my leg to grab on. But I have tried many SR 5 strings, as I always wanted a premium model (I grew up with a 4 string SR300), and never experience any big neck dives. If I lift my hands out of the bass it would stay on my lap if I position the bass on a good spot, if not it would slowly neck dive till it falls. If I do the same with the Jazz basses they would fall into the ground neck first fast no matter what.

I might be over reacting it, and yes, every bass would neck dive when on a lap. But the amount of dive from a J bass for me was huge compared to any other bass. I didnt felt balanced at all on my lap. Like I mentioned before I felt forced to hold the weight of the bass on my left hand as my right arm couldnt hold it fully. Never experienced that before. Maybe a Stingray would hve the same issue? due to the huge headstock/tunners too and a "traditional" body?, I really want to try a stingray now lol, slowly GASing for one


out of the models due to the anture of the stores I know they are Squires. Not 100% sure on the model as I dont really follow the brand but I think two of them where these







must say the fretboard felt/look amazing, sooo shinny. Its too black/smooth "prefect" to be ebony, is it a composite material? 






not sure if it was this one this one, as the store I tried was another one from where Im looking at the pics, but it was similar 


I would try to go to the store again to check one more time and check


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 20, 2017)

https://youtu.be/ov8bxuRj57I
https://youtu.be/JDgIo_zYzVA
https://youtu.be/XxoftkByH4w

Watch out for the dive.


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## stevexc (Apr 20, 2017)

Gotta second (third) Max and Tim on this. I've played a lot of Fenders over the years, and have owned a number of them as well - neckdive has been the least of my worries.

I also gotta say that my Am Std Jazz V sounds and plays excellent when it comes to the low B - whether that's representative of more budget models I can't say, but I wasn't disappointed with the Squier Jazz Vs I played. Definitely a different feel than an SR but by no means "worse".


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## A-Branger (Apr 21, 2017)

I dont know what to say more than I already did. the 5 string versions do have neck dive issues while sitting down. on a strap I have no idea.

went to the store they didnt had any 5 strings but they did had couple of Fenders in 4 strings. In a 4 string the neck dive wasnt that bad to be honest, just a little, enough that you can work. But, the 3 diferent SR I tried had 0 neck dive. I could raise my hands in the air and the bass wont move. The 5 string SRs had a little dive, similar to the 4 string Fender, but maybe because the contour of them I could hold them easier if tilted up a bit with the horn on my chest. 

so yeah, more strings more dive, so altough there wasnt any 5 Fenders, from the dive of the 4strings I could reaffirm my point into the the weight balance issues on the 5 strings


also I have no idea what model was I jsut know it was a bit over 2K$ price, but it felt like a big "meh" in my hands. Couldnt plug it in tho, but feeling/settup/construction, I have no idea from where that price came from.

and so you dont think I bash only Fender. They had the SR 30th anyversary, the standard model not the premium. Again it was a big old "meh". Fancy holes in the bass that imo add nothing to it, not even acoustically.

Also on the SR they had the 400/600/650/anyversary/305. To be honest, all of them felt the same. After checking Ibanez site, all of them have same bridge and electronics (just a switch different depending on the pickups). And the one I liked the most feeling/look was the 400. I like the 5pcmapple/rosewood neck rather than the weird brown thing of the other models. Pickups I know it would be another story tho, but the pickups on the 300/400 series seems to be a standard size, easy to change for a Nordstrand big single like on the premium SR, but without the big price. Only difference between all of them is the look/colors, then woods of the neck for the mid range up(which I preffer the mapple one), and well the pickups is the most important, but if you get the cheap 300/400, then upgrade those and you get an amazing bass at a great price


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## Drew (Apr 21, 2017)

A-Branger said:


> I just grab the bass, sit down, put it on my lap, then bass neck swing down. Neck dive might be fine for standing up. But I have never experience neck dive while sitting down and specially at this much.
> 
> with my Ibanez basses I jsut put the bass on my lap and done, they stay put I dont have to "hold it", they jsut stay. With the Fender ones I have to find a way with my hands to held it into position.
> 
> Not sure if the models I tried where heavier or something?, but that was a big impression for me, the how neck heavy they were. EVen by jsut grabbing the bass by the neck joint when I took it out of the rack, you could tell how off the balance was and how heavy the neck is



Yes, but who ever plays bass sitting down? 

I have a cheapo Squier 5-string P with J-bass pickups, and it balances just fine. I also use leather straps with sueded undersides, though, ever since switching to 7s and having a RG7620 that tended to neck-dive a little, so it's a total non-issue for me anyway.


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## bostjan (Apr 21, 2017)

If the neck dive on a bass gets too bad, just flip it around like so:






Problem solved


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## A-Branger (Apr 21, 2017)

Drew said:


> Yes, but who ever plays bass sitting down?



like everyone . or you are going to tell me that you play standing up in your house 100% of the time?, even while learning a scale

maybe its me but I like to play stiting down, and the ratio of me playing at home vs at a gig/practice is like 80/20% so yeah, I want a bass who would feel right while sitting down




bostjan said:


> If the neck dive on a bass gets too bad, just flip it around like so:
> [/img]
> 
> Problem solved



fair enough


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## Grand Moff Tim (Apr 21, 2017)

I play sitting down at home a lot, but I use a strap when I'm seated, too. That way my bass is in the exact same position when I'm standing as it is when I'm seated, so I won't have any issues with playing my parts live.

Either way, never had a problem with neck dive on a Fender bass, regardless of body shape or number of strings. I legitimately can't wrap my mind around how it's a problem for you. Oh well, though. We all have our irrational dislikes of certain brands. For me it's Schecter, for you it's Fender, as long as we make the music we like, we're all good.


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## A-Branger (Apr 21, 2017)

I cant wrap my head around in the how you guys dont feel the neck dive on the 5 strings?

maybe because you guys grew up playing This type of traditional shaped basses? so for all of you "its normal", rathen than me I started with a SR300, then into another Ibanez EDA905 which is stupid light with a tinny headstock. So for me a J bass feels like a mamoth?


but yeah each to their own. Its a shame because I like the look of them, but they never feel "good" to me. plys the lack of 24 frets mess with my OCD too


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 22, 2017)

Did you watch the videos I posted? Two are with the bass being played seated and in both the player takes thier hand completely off the neck, yet the neck doesn't budge at all. 

Would you happen to have a picture of how you hold your bass when seated? I can't fathom how you'd get dive.


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## A-Branger (Apr 22, 2017)

yeah those were jsut reviews, and they dont really take their hands off, they are still holding the bass with either left of right arms. And the other was just one guy standing up, I could find one video of a guy showing the neck dive while standing up too, but not many people have video of that and my point was only while sitting down.

I just sit normally with the bass on my right leg, nothing fancy, wiht the cutaway on my leg, if the bass has a bit of dive like any 5 string has and my BTB does, then I locate the bass a tinny bit back on my leg so basically the bass is resting on the side of the lower horn, also tilt the bass bit up so the upper horn rest against my chest so the bass can stay put.

But with a 5 string jazz I couldnt find a comfortable position without feeling that I was "holding" most of the weight of the bass with my left hand. Maybe the surface of the finish/shape of the horns was too smooth for it to sit on a better position to counteract the neck, so it would always sit on the bottom cutaway and not on the horn for extra leverage? Thats what I tried to test at the store but they didnt had 5 strings in there.

Its not a lie that their headstocks are far bigger and ticker with a far bigger/heavier tuners, than a SR bass. Plus I found the necks to be ticker too, all this adds to extra weight that Ive never been used to on a bass. So for me, yes, they are much heavier than Im used to.

the bottom leg cutaway is not on the ideal balance position, thats the other problem. J basses have the cutaway in the center of the body, which off-center of the balance point of the instrument, which is usually and the neck pocket. I tried balancing the basses with one hand and all of them tend to be around the point were the bass meets the body. So on the SR this was around the 24 fret, rather than on the Fenders on the 20th fret, which confirms my theory of their neck/headstocks being heavier. So if you put the bass on your leg by resting it on the bottom horn, yes, it can be balanced with little to no neck dive, but if you rest the bass on the lower leg cutaway, then the balance would be off making it more neck heavy.

maybe the ones I tried had extra light bodies?


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## TedEH (Apr 24, 2017)

I always thought neck dive was about things not staying in place while standing.


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## Drew (Apr 24, 2017)

A-Branger said:


> like everyone . or you are going to tell me that you play standing up in your house 100% of the time?, even while learning a scale
> 
> maybe its me but I like to play stiting down, and the ratio of me playing at home vs at a gig/practice is like 80/20% so yeah, I want a bass who would feel right while sitting down



With the possible exception of my acoustic guitar, I'd say 98% of the time, I'm standing. And that remaining 2% is stuff like dicking around on my guitar while reading a forum, and not serious practice or performance.

I'd suggest doing the same, even when learning a new scale. Face it - the physical mechanics of picking hand and fretting hand position are slightly different when you're sitting and when you're standing. And, when it REALLY matters that you nail a part, it's when you're playing live, when you can't go back and punch it in or try it again or "fix it in the mix" or something like that, when you onl;y have that one chance to pull something off. So, you should practice in as close to gigging conditions as possible, and when do you ever play a gig sitting down? 

If you're a classical musician playing in an orchestra pit that's one thing, but here, we all gig standing up. If you perform on your feet, you want to practice on your feet so you're more comfortable playing standing than you are sitting.


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## bostjan (Apr 24, 2017)

Embarrassing story: The first time I recorded in a studio, I was given a comfortable place to sit to record my parts, and my playing was horrible. I just thought I was having a really bad day. Then I stood up to play a bit and blow off some steam, and I nailed my part, even though I was kind of half-assing it. The rest of the session was done standing up. At the time, I thought it was something to do with my energy level in the performance, but looking back, it was definitely because I was trying to rest the guitar on my leg and it was totally throwing off my form, like trying to play an unfamiliar instrument.

If I sit to record something now, I pull my strap up so that the guitar is hanging from the strap instead of resting on my leg.

Just my own personal experience. I don't know if this happened to anyone else ever, though.

Regarding neck dive, I've had plenty of instruments that did that, while standing, and it's annoying as hell, because you can't let go of your instrument for two seconds to adjust your amp or get your hair out of your face or take a sip of water while you scratch an itch. I don't recall my J Bass ever diving on me, but it is like holding a block of lead, and the hand positioning isn't the most comfortable, for me. 

I think it was a good first bass for me, but that was in the 1990's, when there weren't as many choices as there are today. If I had to start over on a budget, I would personally go for something else. I know the Dingwall NG-2 is not the most budget-friendly bass by a longshot, but, hands down, for me, it has the sound, the weight, the ergonomics, and the features I would ever be looking for. Short of that, I think I'd most likely go for a halfway decent ESP or a low budget Dean that I could upgrade later.

Ibanez and Fender are huge players in the game of selling beginner bass guitars. Fender made the basses that had the most iconic sound for rock, funk, and jazz throughout the 60's, 70's, and the 80's. I think Ibanez offers a more modern take on tone, which is why you see more modern rock bands playing those.


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## LeviathanKiller (Apr 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> ...
> If I sit to record something now, I pull my strap up so that the guitar is hanging from the strap instead of resting on my leg.
> ...



This ^


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## Drew (Apr 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Embarrassing story: The first time I recorded in a studio, I was given a comfortable place to sit to record my parts, and my playing was horrible. I just thought I was having a really bad day. Then I stood up to play a bit and blow off some steam, and I nailed my part, even though I was kind of half-assing it. The rest of the session was done standing up. At the time, I thought it was something to do with my energy level in the performance, but looking back, it was definitely because I was trying to rest the guitar on my leg and it was totally throwing off my form, like trying to play an unfamiliar instrument.



Honestly, I make a point of doing legato drills both at the very base of the neck, near the nut, and also way up at the top of the fretboard, because between the difference in fret spacing and the impact on wrist angle of the different fretting positions, the mechanics are VERY different between the two positions. 

Guitar (and bass) is absolutely a biomechanical process and needs to be viewed as such.


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