# Steinberger Gearless Tuners?



## hufschmid (Mar 14, 2009)

This is soooo tempting.....

Anybody out there using them?

Steinberger's unique "straight-through" tuner has no gears, and an astounding 40:1  tuning ratio for unparalleled accuracy. Straight string pull eliminates winding. The locking knob on top secures the string to prevent slippage. String installation is fast and easy, and the tuning action is impressively smooth. Set of 6, instructions included. 

Steinberger Gearless Tuners at Stewart-MacDonald


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 14, 2009)

Oh believe me Patrick, I was tempted... Satan was sitting on my shoulder.

BUT, there is no seven string option . Stew Mac would not sell me an individual one either .


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## AySay (Mar 14, 2009)

caughtinamosh said:


> Oh believe me Patrick, I was tempted... Satan was sitting on my shoulder.
> 
> BUT, there is no seven string option . Stew Mac would not sell me an individual one either .



How about buying two sets and then selling the extra 5 to maybe a banjo player?


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 14, 2009)

AySay said:


> How about buying two sets and then selling the extra 5 to maybe a banjo player?



Banjo players are swine... I have no desire to have any dealings with them . In the end I ended up settling with Hipshot locking tuners... Patrick likes these too, I believe .


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

I'd love to try these, but at US$100 for a set of six, they're among the most expensive tuners out there.

One big advantage, though, is you can place them in optimal locations on the headstock for straight string pull, and design the shape of the headstock however you want, because they don't have to follow the edge of the headstock the way regular tuners do.


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 14, 2009)

darren said:


> One big advantage, though, is you can place them in optimal locations on the headstock for straight string pull, and design the shape of the headstock however you want, because they don't have to follow the edge of the headstock the way regular tuners do.



A great point... I believe the guitar would look better without the tuning pegs as well... Do you think Steinberger would sell me one individually? Anyone?


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 14, 2009)

Are these chappies the development of the tuners on the GS? 

Does open up some interesting options for designs in either case....*has a ponder*....



caughtinamosh said:


> A great point... I believe the guitar would look better without the tuning pegs as well... Do you think Steinberger would sell me one individually? Anyone?



You could email them to find out amigo - definately worth a try.


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## sevenstringj (Mar 14, 2009)

Apparently you need to solder plain strings at the insertion point for stable tuning. That plus the 40:1 ratio, sounds like stringing up would be an unnecessary PITA.

And now that Sperzel is essentially a custom shop, you can get pretty much anything you want from them, even sets of 7 and 8, sealed or open back, locking, semi-locking, non-locking, a variety of metal and plastic buttons, and all sorts of different colors. I've never had any tuning accuracy problems with the 12:1 ratio.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 14, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> Apparently you need to solder plain strings at the insertion point for stable tuning. That plus the 40:1 ratio, sounds like stringing up would be an unnecessary PITA.



Ugh, didn't see that bit


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 14, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> Apparently you need to solder plain strings at the insertion point for stable tuning. That plus the 40:1 ratio, sounds like stringing up would be an unnecessary PITA.
> 
> And now that Sperzel is essentially a custom shop, you can get pretty much anything you want from them, even sets of 7 and 8, sealed or open back, locking, semi-locking, non-locking, a variety of metal and plastic buttons, and all sorts of different colors. I've never had any tuning accuracy problems with the 12:1 ratio.



WUT??? Where did you hear THAT? Soldering the strings? 

As for the Sperzel tuning machines... Yeah, they can do a tonne of different stuff, folks. I believe Elysian can order them for you for a lower price.


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## sevenstringj (Mar 14, 2009)

caughtinamosh said:


> WUT??? Where did you hear THAT? Soldering the strings?



http://www.steinberger.com/images/gearlessuse.pdf


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## ugmung (Mar 14, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> http://www.steinberger.com/images/gearlessuse.pdf


 
yes, i was looking at these and was very interested, but couldn't figure them out at the time so i was like f*ck it. 

the manuel says it can be done, but i doesn't have to. but then again...i've never heard of a silk twist?


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

They're talking about "at the twist" which i assume means where the string is twisted around at the ball end. I had to solder my plain strings at the ball end when i used a Kahler, or they would break there. 

I believe this gearless tuner PDF was an excerpt from a Steinberger guitar manual (maybe for the Scepter?) where they're talking about soldering the strings for use with a Steinberger trem.


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## ugmung (Mar 14, 2009)

i know what the twist part meant, just not the silk part.

that could very well be true, but i've never seen a steinberger with these tuners.


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

They only made one model with a headstock:






They're pretty rare. That's probably why you've never seen one. 

Gibson uses these tuners on the Epiphone Firebird Studio... as far as i know, that's the only other production guitar to use them. And i'd be surprised if Gibson recommended soldering the strings at the twist on a fixed bridge guitar. I'm pretty sure it's just a trem thing.


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## hufschmid (Mar 14, 2009)

Stewmac are great guys no doubt, but sometimes are so conservative...

I wrote them a mail about if they could consider building less deeper truss rods... The reply: ''sorry we dont do custom work'' 

I would believe that the extended range guitars opens a new market to them right? So WTF? 

I'm going to try and see what I can do about those tuners because I really want to give them a try, I mean the looks of a headstock without pegs would be fucking awesome!

And yeah those are brutally expensive tuners also.....

Tell me if i'm right or wrong but I have seen something identical from Schaller one day? Or maybe I was breathing to much mahogany


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## hufschmid (Mar 14, 2009)

I was wrong.....

I found the tuners I was talking about but its actually not the same thing at all.........

Check this...






Its actually a button option... Tuners are regular Schaller's


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 14, 2009)

Ah, the GS as I thought 

I just spoke to a luthier who's college instructor used these tuners on his daughters guitar and didn't solder the strings - they're fine unless you do use a Steinberger trem.


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

I've always liked those LSR-style barrel knobs when Yamaha has used them... are they available for ordering somewhere?


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

Oh, also worth noting is that the maximum string size you can put through the Steinberger tuners is a .060.


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## hufschmid (Mar 14, 2009)

darren said:


> I've always liked those LSR-style barrel knobs when Yamaha has used them... are they available for ordering somewhere?



I think you can order them directly from Schaller... 

I bought the hannes bridge directly from there aswell....

Schaller Electronic | All Schaller products

Off Topic but.... pics from schallers website....


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 14, 2009)

Oooo o.0

Thats lovely! *adds to shopping list*


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## darren (Mar 14, 2009)

Yeah, i would LOVE that bridge in a seven-string version.


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 14, 2009)

Ci, it looks to be very comfortable. Almost like "fixed" Floyd Rose would be, minus the fine tuners. Om nom nom.


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## hufschmid (Apr 8, 2009)

Ok so I just ordered today a set of black 40:1 gear ratio steinberger tuners because i have to test them out otherwise i may never sleep properly again 

And I will probably receive them this up comming friday 

I will post pics when installed


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## Durero (Apr 8, 2009)

I've been using these Steinberger tuners for some time and I have to say they're my favourite tuners of all. They're the simplest to use and have the best feel and smoothest action of any tuner I've tried.

The soldering issue mentioned doesn't apply to them at all - it's a problem with the Steirberger trans-trem and s-trem designs (and khalers) with the high-E strings snapping at the bridge.

And the 40:1 ratio is _not_ a gear ratio. It's the threads per inch count, so it is not like you have to turn the knob 40 times to get the string to move anywhere, they feel great just like a regular tuner with a particularly smooth and effortless action.

My only concern with them for erg designs is accepting bigger strings. I think it may be possible to drill them out a little to accommodate .070 or .080 strings but I haven't tried it yet.


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## darren (Apr 9, 2009)

The other thing that sucks is they're only sold in sets of six.


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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)

Durero said:


> I've been using these Steinberger tuners for some time and I have to say they're my favourite tuners of all. They're the simplest to use and have the best feel and smoothest action of any tuner I've tried.
> 
> The soldering issue mentioned doesn't apply to them at all - it's a problem with the Steirberger trans-trem and s-trem designs (and khalers) with the high-E strings snapping at the bridge.
> 
> ...



thanks for the information, now i'm getting very exited to test them out and yes, like Darren mentions, it would be nice to be able to buy them individually for 7 or 8 string Guitars....


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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)




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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)

Pics of the tuners in place


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## darren (Apr 9, 2009)

I love how clean these tuners look. They look awesome in black!

I tried them once on an Epiphone Firebird Studio... really smooth and high-quality feel to them.

Patrick, how does their weight compare to Sperzels or Hipshots?


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 9, 2009)

hopefully getting these beasts on my custom!


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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)

darren said:


> I love how clean these tuners look. They look awesome in black!
> 
> I tried them once on an Epiphone Firebird Studio... really smooth and high-quality feel to them.
> 
> Patrick, how does their weight compare to Sperzels or Hipshots?



I would say about the same as the hipshots.....

And also they are very easy to install....

The pin must face the nut on the headstock, simply press, drill and your done....

But its not 40:1 gear ratio as they advertise....


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## darren (Apr 9, 2009)

Durero said:


> And the 40:1 ratio is _not_ a gear ratio. It's the threads per inch count, so it is not like you have to turn the knob 40 times to get the string to move anywhere, they feel great just like a regular tuner with a particularly smooth and effortless action.


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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)

Indeed 

I will send a mail to stewmac about this, maybe they can clarify the description a little better......


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## hufschmid (Apr 9, 2009)

I just run into this....

- Intalling Steinberger Tuners on a Paul Reed Smith.


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## Durero (Apr 25, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Indeed
> 
> I will send a mail to stewmac about this, maybe they can clarify the description a little better......


 They're spreading the misconception that it's a 40:1 gear ratio and doing themselves a disservice because of all the folks who logically think "oh no with a 40:1 gear ratio I'm gonna have to turn the knob a billion times to tune the string up."

Calling the ratio what it is - threads per inch count - would clarify the issue and emphasize that there's really not much point comparing the gear ratios of geared tuners to gearless designs.


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## hufschmid (Apr 25, 2009)

Durero said:


> They're spreading the misconception that it's a 40:1 gear ratio and doing themselves a disservice because of all the folks who logically think "oh no with a 40:1 gear ratio I'm gonna have to turn the knob a billion times to tune the string up."
> 
> Calling the ratio what it is - threads per inch count - would clarify the issue and emphasize that there's really not much point comparing the gear ratios of geared tuners to gearless designs.



 mail has been sent, but I doubt they will change anything....


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## darren (Apr 25, 2009)

When i read "40:1" i think, "Shit, those must be REALLY accurate!"

With locking tuners, i prefer a higher ratio. With my Peterson tuner, even TOUCHING the Schallers on my JP7 can make a slight difference in tuning. I'd prefer something that required a bit of a turn to get any movement in tuning.


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## Elysian (Apr 25, 2009)

darren said:


> When i read "40:1" i think, "Shit, those must be REALLY accurate!"
> 
> With locking tuners, i prefer a higher ratio. With my Peterson tuner, even TOUCHING the Schallers on my JP7 can make a slight difference in tuning. I'd prefer something that required a bit of a turn to get any movement in tuning.



Maybe you need to tighten the screws on the knobs on your schallers?


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## darren (Apr 25, 2009)

They're plenty tight. Even though the Schallers are fairly precise at 16:1, the Peterson is so accurate, i could really use something with "fine tuner" control.


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## Elysian (Apr 25, 2009)

darren said:


> They're plenty tight. Even though the Schallers are fairly precise at 16:1, the Peterson is so accurate, i could really use something with "fine tuner" control.



I'm curious why such a small fluctuation through such an accurate tuner matters to you? When you fret frets, most of the notes aren't perfectly in tune either, and never will be, so it seems rather tedious to worry about a tuning fluctation the human ear can't even pick up. Even holding your guitar at a different angle to the ground changes the tuning, so really, what gives?


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## darren (Apr 25, 2009)

Maybe my ear is exceptionally sensitive to changes in pitch. 

I do find microtonal differences in pitch make a remarkable difference to how good a guitar sounds. I couldn't believe how much better my guitars sounded when i upgraded from a BOSS TU-2 to a Peterson. Everything just rang out so much better. The Peterson has definitely made me a lot more picky about my tuning.


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## Metal Ken (Apr 25, 2009)

darren said:


> Maybe my ear is exceptionally sensitive to changes in pitch.



After all, Eric Johnson can hear the difference between Energizer and Duracells in his pedals.


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## darren (Apr 25, 2009)

For me, it's not so much the individual notes, but the chords i can hear being not quite "on". The Peterson tuner really opened my eyes to how mediocre most tuners are, and how much of a difference _actually being in tune_ makes.

If all of your strings are out by a cent (the TU-2 is only accurate to &#177;1 cent) then across all of your strings, you could be as much as 6 or 7 cents out from top to bottom. It may not sound like much, but in a chord, it's definitely the difference between having overtones ringing together in a really "alive" way, or the chord sounding dead.


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## SargeantVomit (Apr 25, 2009)

Yeah, you should check your intonation every single time you tune, it's not a big deal to adjust it every so often. Actually, maybe that's because I have a hardtail. I've never intonated a floating bridge.


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## hufschmid (Apr 27, 2009)

Got a reply....


Dear Patrick,

Thank you for your great feedback. We appreciate your comments. They will be forwarded to management and our tech department for consideration.

Have a great day,

Best regards,

XX
Stewart MacDonald



I bet nothing will be changed


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## MFB (Apr 27, 2009)

It's just gonna get caught up in between departments and forgotten about no doubt 

I wanna put this on a guitar but I don't use any 6's anymore...well except for my burnt Kramer which these would look out of place on


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## chaosxcomplex (Apr 27, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> After all, Eric Johnson can hear the difference between Energizer and Duracells in his pedals.


Are you serious?? thats awesome and ridiculous in the same breath!


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## MFB (Apr 27, 2009)

chaosxcomplex said:


> Are you serious?? thats awesome and ridiculous in the same breath!



I don't think Ken's being serious, although I believe EJ may have said that comment because he's waaaay to fucking anal about his tone. I heard it was painstaking designing his Fender signature because he's so crazy about sound and whatnot.


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## ghoti (Apr 27, 2009)

Someone on here could order 7 packs of these; and distribute them to whoever needs them...for a fee of course...


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## ghoti (May 1, 2009)

Are there also gearless tuners for bass? I did a search and came up with nothing.

I'm thinking that if there were, one could kill two birds with one stone here; order 4 sets of the 6-string and one of a 4-string bass. Total = 4 sets of 7-string tuners, one of which can take the heavier gauge of the lower strings.


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

I thought you may appreciate a little pic story about how those tuners work....

So I took some pics when I was changing the strings.... 

I like to cut my strings to lenght, because i dont like when a guitar needs a hair cut 

So here I've unscrewed the tuners on the bottom and top...





Now the string has to be cut a little bit after the tuner, just enough to pull it in decently...




Now pull it inside the hole...




Tighten the top, this will lock the string down in place...




Now on the back, tune up the string to pitch...
The string will be aspired into the tuning machine....




This is how it looks like, nice and clean...








Top view
When installing, the tuners can be moved in correct position so that the strings go nicely true them without any angle...


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## yingmin (May 17, 2009)

My store recently got a GOTM Gibson V with gearless tuners. They're pretty awesome.


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## lcsdds (May 24, 2009)

All my guitars use these tuners and I have NEVER had to solder anything. I don't know where that comes from. I moses graphite necks with and Ibanez shaped headstock and a ZR trem. These tuners are awesome....I highly reccomend them. Also the 40:1 tuning ratio doesn't make string changes a PITA.....it simplifies them.


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## Fikealox (May 24, 2009)

caughtinamosh said:


> Banjo players are swine... I have no desire to have any dealings with them .


 
lmao


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## yacker (Aug 18, 2009)

I know I'm bumping an old thread but I was wondering if any of the users of these tuners know if these can be drilled to hold higher gauge strings?


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## Scali (Aug 18, 2009)

darren said:


> Gibson uses these tuners on the Epiphone Firebird Studio... as far as i know, that's the only other production guitar to use them. And i'd be surprised if Gibson recommended soldering the strings at the twist on a fixed bridge guitar. I'm pretty sure it's just a trem thing.


 
Gibson also used them on the M-III/M-IV series back in the mid-90s (along with a Steinberger tremolo).
Why Gibson, some might ask? Gibson bought Steinberger around that time.
My M-III is an earlier model, so I have regular tuners and a Schaller FR trem.


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## hufschmid (Aug 19, 2009)

yacker said:


> I know I'm bumping an old thread but I was wondering if any of the users of these tuners know if these can be drilled to hold higher gauge strings?



No they cant, the string is aspired inside the tuner, there is not enough room for a bigger guage then a .60


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## yingmin (Aug 19, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> No they cant, the string is aspired inside the tuner, there is not enough room for a bigger guage then a .60


 I'm not really sure what you think "aspire" means, but it's not this.


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## hufschmid (Aug 19, 2009)

yingmin said:


> I'm not really sure what you think "aspire" means, but it's not this.



1) i'm sorry I dont speak english all the time 

2) here is the picture, aspiration ......

maybe if I say... it's being sucked inside it, would this help?


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## yacker (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info.....kinda disappointing, but what can you do.


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## hufschmid (Aug 19, 2009)

Its more of a physical issue, they probably did not think about building them for extended range instruments the day they designed them


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## Dee Jay Drugs (Jun 25, 2010)

hufschmid said:


> Its more of a physical issue, they probably did not think about building them for extended range instruments the day they designed them



Anyone try using these on a flat, non pitched headstock? Can the need for a string tree be avoided?


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## Durero (Jun 25, 2010)

Depends on the specific dimensions of your headstock and nut height and how much downwards angle you want. The strings go to the very bottom of the assembly when you tune so if any tuner design will allow you to avoid string trees these would.


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## mgcasella (Jul 31, 2010)

hufschmid said:


> No they cant, the string is aspired inside the tuner, there is not enough room for a bigger guage then a .60



I hate to bump an old thread BUT... 

Is it possible to just unwind the string in order to get it through the .60 hole (just like you would with a standard tuner)?

Or is this not possible because I'm over-simplifying things or missed something? 

I need to know because I may order these for my MM5 OLP baritone


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## Durero (Jul 31, 2010)

Yes that will certainly work. I've used that method before.


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## mgcasella (Jul 31, 2010)

Durero said:


> Yes that will certainly work. I've used that method before.



Sweet! Thanks!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry to bump an oldy, but i'v been looking around for someplace that sells these individually. Has anyplace started doing this yet? I'm not real hip as to where to get parts like this besides Stew mac and other obvious vendors.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 10, 2011)

I remember you used to be able to order them from Gibson/Steinberger directly, but not sure about now as that was back when Music Yo was still up.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 10, 2011)

is that steinberger.com i should be internet stalking, or is there some gibson/steinberger.com that i should be internet stalking?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 10, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> is that steinberger.com i should be internet stalking, or is there some gibson/steinberger.com that i should be internet stalking?



It's all the same company. I'd e-mail both of them to see what's up, as well as talking to some other dealers of Gibson and/or Steinberger hardware, as they may be willing to split up a set, or have an already split set that you could buy a spare from.


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## dryhumor (Nov 26, 2012)

.62 gauge strings fit. I suck at guitar so that's all I use. HA.


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## Durero (Nov 26, 2012)

Uh, what does that say on your headstock?


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## dryhumor (Nov 26, 2012)

Vagina. I prefer it over Gibson. 

I'm having a couple 7 strings made as well, because six .62's wasn't obnoxious enough. 



Oh yeah.. I have a few extra tuners if people want to buy a set of 6 somewhere and need one more for their 7's.


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## Durero (Nov 26, 2012)

dryhumor said:


> Vagina. I prefer it over Gibson.
> 
> I'm having a couple 7 strings made as well, because six .62's wasn't obnoxious enough.
> 
> ...



 I must say I prefer it too, though I don't think I've ever thought of that before.

I'm curious what tuning you use? All unisons? 

Must be a very interesting sound!

Nice looking guitar too


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## tasteslikeawesome (Nov 27, 2012)

The Gibson 7 string V uses the gearless and I know Billy Gibbons is a big fan of them.


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## dryhumor (Nov 27, 2012)

They're all tuned to B. I use an Electro Harmonix H.O.G. to add some depth when need be. It's pretty droning.. Reminds me of early Black Sabbath. The hard part will be finding a bass player to fit into this mess. 

Thanks, regarding the guitar. I'm also prototyping.  My newer versions are 28" scale. some 6 string, some 7. I need to build one with 7 of the same string and a Floyd.. Because that seems completely obnoxious to me.


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## Seanthesheep (Nov 27, 2012)

hmm you could build a pretty neat compact/headless guitar with these tuners..... an 8 would be even more intriguing..... hmmmmm


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## Durero (Nov 28, 2012)

dryhumor said:


> They're all tuned to B. I use an Electro Harmonix H.O.G. to add some depth when need be. It's pretty droning.. Reminds me of early Black Sabbath. The hard part will be finding a bass player to fit into this mess.
> 
> Thanks, regarding the guitar. I'm also prototyping.  My newer versions are 28" scale. some 6 string, some 7. I need to build one with 7 of the same string and a Floyd.. Because that seems completely obnoxious to me.



Wow. I admire your concept even though I know it's something I'd never try.


7 unison bass strings and a Floyd.  


I think you just win. If the whole ss.org site were to end with a picture of such an instrument it would somehow be fitting in a very strange way. Who could top that?!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 28, 2012)

I like how not only does the headstock say vagina, but it says it with cursive-ish and italisized font


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## Nemonic (Dec 19, 2012)

I am using a bass 0.105 string for my low E, will it fit into those tuners?


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## dryhumor (Dec 20, 2012)

The .62's fit perfectly. I doubt anything higher will make it.


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## dryhumor (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh.. Here's the update on my 28", 7 string Vagina with a Floyd. I decided to vary the string gauges, but the tuning for each string is still the same. I'm at low A across the board. The strings are .46, .50, .50, .62, .62, .62, .62 on my 3+1+3 headstock, with the lightest on top. For whatever reason, it feels more natural for me to "chug" on the southern-most string of the guitar. 





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