# The B on my 5 string is a bit floppy



## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

Hey guys, I have a Fender Squier bass I screw around on every once in a while. I really love the fretboard except that the low B seems to be really floppy, so much so, that it sounds like it hits the fretboard when i play it much more than any other string.

I'm not really a bass player so my finger technique is pretty much shit and I think I'm hooking the string too much which may be a big part of it. With a pick it seems a bit more usable.

I guess I can try to raise the action more but it'll probably make it fairly unplayable for me... 

Are there any tips that can help with this? Is this normal for kind of $200->$500 range or what?


----------



## Varcolac (Apr 29, 2011)

Have you tried changing the strings? Stock Bs seem to be generally floppy. You may need a bigger gauge string there, even if you're not tuning lower than B. In my experience a too-slack string will tend to have much more fret-buzz noise than a properly tensioned one.

I wouldn't say it's typical of lower price-range basses, but it's certainly typical of stock strings. A cheap and easy fix, at least.

That said, I haven't owned a fretted bass for about seven years, so don't take my word for it.


----------



## MassNecrophagia (Apr 29, 2011)

On stock strings, your lowest string will always hold the lowest tension. Your B-string is likely a .125.

You can search for single strings, possibly something as close to .135 as possible. Any bigger and you'll probably need to file the nut.

If it's a 34" in standard, you may want to go a tiny bit bigger than .135 if possible, if it's a 35" scale you'll probably be fine between .130 and .135.

Hope that helps you out. Maybe $5-$20 fix, depending on where you go for strings and whatnot. Or just get a balanced set from Circle K Strings and toss $50 at them like I'm going to.

EDIT: These gauges are what I find comfortable, anyway. YMMV


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 29, 2011)

What scale lenght is it? I find DR DDT 125-45 for a 34" to work very well in standard, otherwise you will want a.135 for great results. .130 is acceptable but not great.


----------



## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys!

Looks like the bass is a 34". Are there any string recommendations that you'd give? 

Sounds like DR DDT 125-45? Are these for metal or...? (Sorry guys, i'm embarassingly ignorant when it comes to the bass spectrum)


----------



## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> What scale lenght is it? I find DR DDT 125-45 for a 34" to work very well in standard, otherwise you will want a.135 for great results. .130 is acceptable but not great.


 
From Buy DR Strings Drop-Down Tuning Medium Bass Strings | .045 Gauge | Musician's Friend

Medium gauges: 45-65-85-105
Heavy gauges: 55-75-95-115.
Extra heavy gauges: 65-85-102-125

Sorry, maybe I'm being an idiot.. am I looking at the completely wrong ones or do you usually use a hydrid / custom set?


----------



## MassNecrophagia (Apr 29, 2011)

somniumaeternum said:


> From Buy DR Strings Drop-Down Tuning Medium Bass Strings | .045 Gauge | Musician's Friend
> 
> Medium gauges: 45-65-85-105
> Heavy gauges: 55-75-95-115.
> ...


Those are 4-string sets.
I use a .142 for my B on a 35" scale tuned down 1/2 step.
It's plenty tight for metal. 
The thicker the guage, the more tension you're going to get.


----------



## somniumaeternum (Apr 29, 2011)

heh yeah I guess I was being an idiot.. let me see what I can find at the local retailer. thanks guys


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 29, 2011)

somniumaeternum said:


> Thanks for the info guys!
> 
> Looks like the bass is a 34". Are there any string recommendations that you'd give?
> 
> Sounds like DR DDT 125-45? Are these for metal or...? (Sorry guys, i'm embarassingly ignorant when it comes to the bass spectrum)



Any string is for metal , these DDTs are higher tension strings, but still feel nice and slinky/flexible. Very nice, I use them on a 5 string, not a 4, that is why I have the 45 also. Being a bassist I just assumed you had a 5 when you said low B, my bad. Best low B I've ever had. These strings have a pretty good mid range to them, they are a bit 'focussed' to my ear, but in a good way.


----------



## LordCashew (Apr 30, 2011)

I use nickel wound D'addario XLs on my Fender. The low B is tight and ringing with only a .130. It honestly sounds pretty similar to the E string. I have tried other strings and encountered the "floppiness" issues but these are working great, plus they're cheap and easy to find. I recommend giving them a shot.


----------



## deevit (Apr 30, 2011)

I have never tried this myself, but here is an idea from a Gary Willis book... You could always give it a shot!



> Before I got the oppurtunity to design my signature bass, I was lokking for a way to add tension to the lower strings (B and E) without resorting to a 35" scale or obnoxiously big string gauges. A fairly easy way to tighten up the B and the E is with PC board spacers. These little 1/4" spacers are fairly easy to find at electronic stores. Slip them over the strings before you insert the strings through the bridge. The length of the spacer is sometimes limited by the cloth wrap at the other side of the string. The wrap could contact or rest on the nut if you try to extend the string too far in the other direction. A half inch is usually safe and will make noticeable difference in tension.


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 30, 2011)

^^

Seeing as that length is outside the scale it won't actually effect the tension you have to being the string to to get it to pitch. The vibrating length within the scale determines that.

Also holy crap his wind taper is over the saddle, that is weird.


----------



## deevit (Apr 30, 2011)

There are lots of theories and opinions, my first thoughts were the same but untill I've heard it I'm certainly not judging it. Willis knows what he's talking about, I assume... Also, F-Bass reversed their headstocks years ago so the B string had more length behind the nut for a tighter B, and Fodera has got the Extended B headstock.. There must be a reason right?






But the same thing goes for 34" vs 35" scale... I've heard loads of 34' B's that sound better than a lot of 35" B strings, so that is not by definition a solution to a better B string. 

As I said, I really don't know if this works, but it's worth a shot right?


----------



## Winspear (Apr 30, 2011)

^ Concerning string length outside of the vibrating area, see this thread:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/be...erceived-tension-long-thread.html#post2305902


----------



## deevit (Apr 30, 2011)

Interesting, thanks for the link!


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 30, 2011)

deevit said:


> There are lots of theories and opinions, my first thoughts were the same but untill I've heard it I'm certainly not judging it. Willis knows what he's talking about, I assume... Also, F-Bass reversed their headstocks years ago so the B string had more length behind the nut for a tighter B, and Fodera has got the Extended B headstock.. There must be a reason right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



F-bass eh, they are here in Hamilton (where I live), didn't know how known they are but they look nice. The reversing the headstock and the above fodera looks more like people not fully understanding vibrating length though, and I REALLY don't like the pull on that B string. The 35 with the same string will always carry more tension.


----------



## ixlramp (Apr 30, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Seeing as that length is outside the scale it won't actually effect the tension you have to being the string to to get it to pitch. The vibrating length within the scale determines that.



^Yes. Willis isn't always correct.

The only advantage to using a spacer is to reduce the length of tapered section / exposed core in the vibrating length. This makes the string closer to being full gauge along it's entire vibrating length, for a more harmonic tone. In Willis' photo the E string is perfect, the B wind would be better just clearing the saddle. The improvement he notices might be less flex in the string at the bridge end.






Okay here's my guess on this. The extra length beyond the nut won't increase actual tension. But it might allow some side-to-side movement between nut and tuner post so that the B string 'pivots' a little on the nut, it has more 'give' and more flex ... ?


----------



## Winspear (Apr 30, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> The length beyond the nut won't increase tension.



It will increase perceived tension, have a look at the link I posted


----------



## ixlramp (Apr 30, 2011)

Yes, extra length beyond the nut reduces perceived tension (you meant reduced didn't you?  )


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 30, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> It will increase perceived tension, have a look at the link I posted



No it will decrease percieved tension using that as the bench mark. They want it to increase the tension, that article posted by someone we cannot verify either says the opposite. 



> The longer the string length outside of the scale length, the looser the strings will feel. The shorter the string length outside of the scale length, the tighter the strings will feel.


----------



## TemjinStrife (May 1, 2011)

Also, that's a Fodera. Elrick does the same thing with some of their basses too.


----------



## Winspear (May 1, 2011)

My mistake, didn't read back through it and had it the wrong way round in my head!


----------



## angus (May 2, 2011)

If you ask Willis about the past-the-bridge extensions today, he'll admit that he now realizes that it doesn't do anything. He doesn't use them today.

The whole extended-B thing started with Fodera, and started with Mike Pope doing it on his bass because he was curious more or less. It took off from there, and everyone copied it from Fodera. 

Speaking as someone whose engineering study and work was focused on vibrational dynamics, I can 100% say that the whole "extended B" thing has NO effect on tension. It is certainly plausible that it has an effect on the decay of the string because it's changing the pressure gradient of the contact over the nut, but there is nothing to say that this is beneficial. This would account for a difference in feel. But, ANYTHING can affect that, so there is nothing to say that it is the headstock layout that is causing it. 

Most of the people that order the extended-B think that it increases the tension of the string, which is does not. 

I've played a number of Foderas, Elricks and other that did and didn't have the extended-B, and it never makes a difference. But it is a pain in the ass to string/tune.

It's completely silly, imo. The guys who build these aren't engineers, so I wouldn't look to them for solid physical basis in their marketing. 

That said, I love the guys at Fodera, but this doesn't do anything.


----------



## deevit (May 3, 2011)

Cool post


----------

