# "No mate, we D.I. the guitars here..."



## DaveCarter (Apr 19, 2008)

Yup. Thats right. Played a gig in London last night, the sound guy turned up over an hour late, and when I asked if he was going to mic up the guitar cabinets (a lot of places we've played dont bother) thats the response I got. He wanted:

guitar -> pedals -> DI to desk for front of house -> amp for backline.

Please can someone assure me that this is SO not the way it should be done! I havent spent £x,xxx on high-end gear to have balls-out distortion on stage and clean D.I.d guitar coming out the P.A., and there's no way I'm letting it happen again. From now on either our cabs get mic'd or we dont play, fair enough rule?


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## stuh84 (Apr 19, 2008)

I take it he's never done sound for anyone with distortion, or without a POD?

Whats the point in a clean tone coming out of the PA, if you are using distortion on stage?

I bet he was just a bassist with a vendetta against guitarists


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## NegaTiveXero (Apr 19, 2008)

We played a place where they didn't have enough mics to mic up the bassist, so he had to play direct.

That's fucking stupid though, I would've told him to fuck off.


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## kristallin (Apr 19, 2008)

This is why you need a rider. Stipulate everything you need in your rider, have the venue sin off on it when you arrange the gig, and you have the power. Other than that grab yourself a POD for situations like this, then you can at least dial in a decent emergency amp/cab tone for the end of your chain that'll give you a workable sound.


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## Regor (Apr 19, 2008)

Dude, if he's just in a local band playing out (I dunno ), there's no such thing as a rider for those kinda bands.


Me? That'd be a laughable situation... cuz I don't use ANY pedals on the floor. Try DI'ing a MIDI controller... I dare him!


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## DaveCarter (Apr 19, 2008)

it was a charity gig, so no rider. we didnt even get payed. good to hear that everone else shares m opinion on D.I. for guitar; good for basses but not for guitars when you're using distortion!!


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## WarriorOfMetal (Apr 19, 2008)

Regor said:


> Dude, if he's just in a local band playing out (I dunno ), there's no such thing as a rider for those kinda bands.
> 
> 
> Me? That'd be a laughable situation... cuz I don't use ANY pedals on the floor. Try DI'ing a MIDI controller... I dare him!



same here


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## noodles (Apr 19, 2008)

NegaTiveXero said:


> We played a place where they didn't have enough mics to mic up the bassist, so he had to play direct.



Our bassist generally goes direct. Most bass heads have an XLR out, and it is by far the preferred way to run a bass.

Guitars are a different story. I'd tell him to shove his DI box up his ass, and crank my amp loud enough to be heard in the entire venue. I've got 100 watts, I'm confident I don't need his PA. He can match the drum, bass, and vocal volumes to me. If he refused, then I'd tell him good luck with his show, pack up gear, and go home.

The ONLY reason to DI a standard guitar rig is if you plan on getting a board recording for reamping later. I've I wanted to go direct, I'd bring a fucking POD.


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## NegaTiveXero (Apr 19, 2008)

noodles said:


> Our bassist generally goes direct. Most bass heads have an XLR out, and it is by far the preferred way to run a bass.



His bass amp just has a 1/4" speaker out. So, micing sounds better in his case.


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## PeteyG (Apr 19, 2008)

I'm currently saving for a H&K Redbox Pro for D.I.ing, alot of my favourite bands do it as apposed to mic'ing up, and they always get a pretty lush sound aswell, so I'm gonna go with that.


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## dissident (Apr 19, 2008)

At the venue i work at we pretty much always DI the bass unless they have an awesome amp. It much easier to get a nice clean sound out front. The only time i've DI'd the guitar is when a band turned up with no amp. That just sounds like the sound guy has no clue.....


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## DaveCarter (Apr 19, 2008)

I'm all for D.I. on the bass, I run the sound at a venue once a week and we always D.I. the bass, but guitar???



noodles said:


> Guitars are a different story. I'd tell him to shove his DI box up his ass, and crank my amp loud enough to be heard in the entire venue. I've got 100 watts, I'm confident I don't need his PA. He can match the drum, bass, and vocal volumes to me. If he refused, then I'd tell him good luck with his show, pack up gear, and go home.



Going home wasnt really an option since the whole band had either had to drive 2 hours in to london or take 3 hours on the train. Id happily have just cranked my Roadster but the venue had one of those decibel meters with the traffic lights, and we were told if the red light came on then the power to the stage would be cut. Needless to say, we're not going to be going back there again...


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## TimSE (Apr 19, 2008)

wat was the venue called? i wanna make a point never to play there


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## DaveCarter (Apr 19, 2008)

Its the Hootenanny pub in Brixton, quite a large venue for a pub (at least 200 people there) and they do free live music every night. Mainly reggae, soul, funk styles (this was with my reggae/rock band, not my metal band!) as its a 90% black audience, but being a half-black-half-white band we got virtually ignored anway. Definitely wouldnt recommend playing there.


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## noodles (Apr 19, 2008)

chavhunter said:


> Going home wasnt really an option since the whole band had either had to drive 2 hours in to london or take 3 hours on the train. Id happily have just cranked my Roadster but the venue had one of those decibel meters with the traffic lights, and we were told if the red light came on then the power to the stage would be cut. Needless to say, we're not going to be going back there again...



That is about the lamest shit I have ever heard of. Decibel meters? Cutting the power? DI boxes? I'd play there again, and bring an UPS with me. Cut the power on me now, bitch.


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## ibznorange (Apr 19, 2008)

yeaah. see, we never had the issue of the venue running out of mics, cause we were smart, and got mics for all of our own gear. sound guy was plenty happy to take that since it required no different work on his end from getting a DI, and he actually had to do less EQing


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## Zepp88 (Apr 19, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> yeaah. see, we never had the issue of the venue running out of mics, cause we were smart, and got mics for all of our own gear. sound guy was plenty happy to take that since it required no different work on his end from getting a DI, and he actually had to do less EQing



Always a good idea to have your own mics and PA equipment for shitty situations


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## All_¥our_Bass (Apr 19, 2008)

EWWWW!!! UGH!!! DI is terrible sounding!! If it's mixed in with a mic'ed signal, fine. But alone, that an insult to guitar tone in general. (99% of the time anyway).



chavhunter said:


> I'm all for D.I. on the bass, I run the sound at a venue once a week and we always D.I. the bass, but guitar???


 
DI isn't great for basses either. Of course it depends on the tone. It seems okay for bass tones that are mostly bass and low mids, But it really sucks the life out of bright bass tones, there's a certain zing/shimmer that doesn't get reproduced very well or at all. Even with the bass/low mids sound I can hear a noticeable difference that I am SOOO not fond of.


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## DaveCarter (Apr 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Always a good idea to have your own mics and PA equipment for shitty situations



I have my own SM57, and the venue had a whole load of different mics (57s, 58s, the whole kit was mic'd with dedicated drum mics) but the guy just refused to mic our cabinets. Im not letting it happen again, but out of interest can my Roadster's Slave output be used as a D.I. out? I checked the manual but its not very clear


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## halsinden (Apr 20, 2008)

chavhunter said:


> Yup. Thats right. Played a gig in London last night, the sound guy turned up over an hour late, and when I asked if he was going to mic up the guitar cabinets (a lot of places we've played dont bother) thats the response I got. He wanted:
> 
> guitar -> pedals -> DI to desk for front of house -> amp for backline.
> 
> Please can someone assure me that this is SO not the way it should be done! I havent spent £x,xxx on high-end gear to have balls-out distortion on stage and clean D.I.d guitar coming out the P.A., and there's no way I'm letting it happen again. From now on either our cabs get mic'd or we dont play, fair enough rule?



dude, where was this?

even if you have to PM me, i'd really, really appreciate knowing.

H


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## WarriorOfMetal (Apr 20, 2008)

halsinden said:


> dude, where was this?
> 
> even if you have to PM me, i'd really, really appreciate knowing.
> 
> H





chavhunter said:


> Its the Hootenanny pub in Brixton, quite a large venue for a pub (at least 200 people there) and they do free live music every night. Mainly reggae, soul, funk styles (this was with my reggae/rock band, not my metal band!) as its a 90% black audience, but being a half-black-half-white band we got virtually ignored anway. Definitely wouldnt recommend playing there.


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## ibznorange (Apr 20, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Always a good idea to have your own mics and PA equipment for shitty situations



Yeah. We typically mixed everything first too, and then sent it all out at mixed levels and everything. it really just let the guy do some fine tuning, and he really appreciated having to work less, while having the stuff to make us sound the best


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## Uber Mega (Apr 20, 2008)

Refer to Dez's (Parka Dez) "rig of doom" for what looks like a brilliant solution to all of your woes. Everything is processed etc. in the bands live rack (all the amps, effects, backing tracks etc. into a digi003) and the sound guy just gets the stereo output cables or whatever to shove into the system. He can explain it a million times better, but i think that's right.


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## kristallin (Apr 20, 2008)

Uber Mega said:


> Refer to Dez's (Parka Dez) "rig of doom" for what looks like a brilliant solution to all of your woes. Everything is processed etc. in the bands live rack (all the amps, effects, backing tracks etc. into a digi003) and the sound guy just gets the stereo output cables or whatever to shove into the system. He can explain it a million times better, but i think that's right.



That's my plan for my new band, everything will be sent into an RME or similar, and the levels set with the DSP mixer software. Front of house gets the stereo output, a beer and a slap on the back.


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## John_Strychnine (Apr 21, 2008)

Uber Mega said:


> Refer to Dez's (Parka Dez) "rig of doom" for what looks like a brilliant solution to all of your woes. Everything is processed etc. in the bands live rack (all the amps, effects, backing tracks etc. into a digi003) and the sound guy just gets the stereo output cables or whatever to shove into the system. He can explain it a million times better, but i think that's right.



That doesn't include the distorted gutiars through the cab though.

Also a D.I'ed guitar amp would be the least of my worries to be honest. what venue did you play? if anything the DI shoudl go between ur head and cab. 

Id be more worried that the kit is miced up and that my drummer can actually hear what he's playing.


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## TomAwesome (Apr 21, 2008)

Wow, what a fucktard. I had something similar but not quite so bad happen at a fairly recent show. They ran out of mics, so without bothering to ask or tell me about it, the sound guy ran DI from my power amp. My sound ended up being really trebly and screechy, like you'd probably expect running a high gain setting with no cab. Your guy is a lot more of an idiot, though. I hope he doesn't work there (or anywhere) much longer.


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## budda (Apr 21, 2008)

hm..

chav, have you put in a word with the venue? talk to whoever runs the place, as mr DI is probably losing him business.


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## Lozek (Apr 21, 2008)

noodles said:


> That is about the lamest shit I have ever heard of. Decibel meters? Cutting the power? DI boxes? I'd play there again, and bring an UPS with me.  Cut the power on me now, bitch.



Welcome to the UK where EVERYTHING is regulated. Most venues have decibel limiters over here, usually set in by local authority ordnances.

I would imagine that if he's used to engineering reggae shows, then pedals - DI - Desk would be a viable solution, as in general most reggae guitarist are looking for that ultra clean upstroke thing.


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## DaveCarter (Apr 21, 2008)

Truth. But I told him that I was using clean and distortion, plus other amp functions (solo, reverb) and he wasnt bothered.

John: T'was the Hootennan in Brixton. I thought about D.I. between head and cab but I didnt know if there'd be enough of a lod on the amp head, so I didnt want to risk damaging it.


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## Popsyche (Apr 21, 2008)

chavhunter said:


> Truth. But I told him that I was using clean and distortion, plus other amp functions (solo, reverb) and he wasnt bothered.
> 
> John: T'was the Hootennan in Brixton. I thought about D.I. between head and cab but I didnt know if there'd be enough of a lod on the amp head, so I didnt want to risk damaging it.




A DI between the amp and cabinet would burn up in seconds, or burn up your output transformer. This guy is beyond clueless!


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## kristallin (Apr 21, 2008)

Doesn't the H&K Red Box have a frequency-correction built in that simulates the frequency range of a 4x12 cab? If I remember that correctly that may be a nice piece of kit to have just in case you encounter more asshat engineers.


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