# Battle of the 8-strings! Kiesel VM8 vs. Strandberg Boden 8!



## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 19, 2018)

Hey all,

I am hard-pressed between either a Kiesel VM8 or a Strandberg Boden 8. I'm trying to keep it below ~$2,200.

First off, I briefly owned a Kiesel V8 from 2015 which I purchased from guitar center used a few months ago. I have some concerns going the Kiesel route because of this guitar (which I consequently brought back). I used that baby to record some demo tracks with my band and really enjoyed it, but it wasn't perfect.

My concerns with the VM8
1. Unfortunately, I found the *tension on the 8th string* to be *insufficient* even at F# while clean (even with a 0.085 gauge string). Everything was good with overdrive, but it was kind of lackluster in a clean situation in comparison to even my cheap piece of shit Agile 8-string. The Agile has a 28.5 inch scale or something ridiculous, so the tension on the low 8 is amazing. Will a VM8 with a 27.5 inch scale at the low-end potentially solve my perception of this problem?
2. The *locking nut* was pretty difficult to use with string changes. I broke two D-strings during a change and could never get the nut to be tight enough to prevent the D-string from slipping slowly out of tune. All of the other strings were fine and I had no problems. I was using elixir strings but Kiesels come standard with elixirs, so I don't see how that could be a problem? Maybe this was a problem with the original V8s?
3. Return policy is very short (can get a strandberg through guitar center and have ~30days to mess around with it)

TL;DR - essentially with the VM8 Im hoping the 27.5 inch scale will improve my problems with string tension and that the locking nut won't be ineffective in holding a tune/always break strings.

My concerns with a Strandberg original boden 8
1. Obviously the entry models are made *over seas* nowadays--I inherently don't like the idea that these guitars are produced in a factory environment with many other brands in sort of an assembly-line fashion. Kiesel has such a tight-knit production process and they even put videos up online of how they make it all. Obviously, they control the process very well, but it does seem odd that essentially the technicians go from mass producing some shitty low-end ibanez or fender guitars to then making a couple of Strandbergs in the back. It just doesn't have the same appeal of it being a crafted process.
2. I have never experience the *Endurneck*, but like the idea of it.
3. Have heard of some bad experiences with tuning heads and finishes.
4. The primary tone wood is ash (no alder)

TL;DR - Strandbergs are made in OS factories, endurneck is new to me, some bad QC control, not customizable

What do you all think? I also am attracted ti the strindberg since it has a larger fan (28inch on the low end). I am just afraid it will be like a cheap over-seas instrument.

Thanks for you input! I'm currently leaning towards the Kiesel and just hoping the problems I had with the used V8 from 2015 were a fluke/an issue of a use guitar.


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## DudeManBrother (Jan 20, 2018)

You'll probably be fine either way you go. I hear the newest Bodens are even nicer now than the OS models and even some of the various custom shop guitars. I think the Boden has a little more "cool" factor, but that might diminish now that they're so much more accessible and readily available. 
Kiesel makes very good guitars too, as long as you don't go crazy with the options; they are still a pretty good value. 
Out of the 2 I'd go Boden, just because I like the looks way more. I still have a Boden 6, just sold my 7; but my Kiesel does play a bit nicer than both FWIW. Once I route the bridges a little deeper to hopefully make the action exactly where I want it, I think it'll be a great playing guitar. But for now it's just good, though it sounds great and looks great.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

DudeManBrother said:


> You'll probably be fine either way you go. I hear the newest Bodens are even nicer now than the OS models and even some of the various custom shop guitars. I think the Boden has a little more "cool" factor, but that might diminish now that they're so much more accessible and readily available.
> Kiesel makes very good guitars too, as long as you don't go crazy with the options; they are still a pretty good value.
> Out of the 2 I'd go Boden, just because I like the looks way more. I still have a Boden 6, just sold my 7; but my Kiesel does play a bit nicer than both FWIW. Once I route the bridges a little deeper to hopefully make the action exactly where I want it, I think it'll be a great playing guitar. But for now it's just good, though it sounds great and looks great.


Do you happen to have an 8 string Kiesel? Yeah boden's look better in my opinion as well. But playability is the most important factor for me. Would love to hear other opinions


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 20, 2018)

meh hate kiesel necks.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> meh hate kiesel necks.


I definitely didn't mind the one I had on the V8. You like strandberg necks better though?


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## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2018)

For sure I’d get the Boden. If there’s any issue whatsoever Ola will fix it. He’s got crazy good customer service, and values his customers. Strandbergs old their value really well, too.
For a Kiesel, if there’s any problem, even if it’s 100% their fault, you’ll be fucked. Their customer service consists of belittling their long standing customers, playing games with their prices, and delivering something other than what was ordered. The majority of the time these things don’t happen, but when they do, it’s the end of the road. Just way too many horror stories out there to roll the dice.


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## Avedas (Jan 20, 2018)

Strandberg feels a lot less like a gamble.


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## makecamera (Jan 20, 2018)

I have a Kiesel Vader V8 that I ordered shortly after the name change from Carvin to Kiesel. I love it, but do agree that the 27" scale is not ideal for the 8th string. However, it's a bit different for me. I currently use an .080 gauge string (GHS Boomers) for the 8th tuned to F and the tension feels fine. My problem is that I prefer .07x gauge because the .080 feels like it's too thick and doesn't have that snappy attack. It makes it harder to dial in your tone and feels weird/soft because of the thickness. It also doesn't help that (IMO) the Lithium pickups are too warm/soft sounding. It sounds awesome coil tapped though. As for the string locks, I've never experienced string slippage and I've gone through quite a few gauges and brands trying to find a good middle ground tension for various tunings. 

I recently went looking for a 7 string to complement my 8. With all the posts about Kiesel customer service, I was afraid to order from them. I tried a couple schecters (KM7 MKII and SLS Elite with the Fishman Fluence Moderns) at DCGL (WMI made, I believe) and the fit and finish didn't feel nearly as good as my V8 - granted, they were prototypes and didn't seem setup properly. That actually made me bite the bullet and put an order in for a VM7. I'm still very hesitant. I don't like supporting companies with that type of ethos, but damn if the Vaders aren't (almost) the perfect guitar for me. I kept the order simple and functional (no fancy woods or finishes) so it's returnable and I might just do that out of principle when it arrives.

Anyway, I would really like to play a Strandberg. I was interested in the Metal 7, but it's about 400 more than my VM7 build. I'm also concerned about zero fret wear and I hear the tuners are so hard to turn you need an Alan wrench to do it. I believe I also read that setting the intonation is difficult. All of these things are a breeze with the Vader.

Regarding quality, I can't speak for Strandberg, but I've also heard hit or miss with the older ones. As someone mentioned though, they seem to have great customer service unlike Kiesel. I do have a Dingwall NG-2 and can say that overseas instruments can be superb in every way as long as QC is done right. 

Hopefully Kiesel gets their act together because I really want a VM8 in the future (alongside an Aristides 080s, which is next). 
Anyway,good luck. Maybe hold out for those new Tosin Abasi guitars?

I think this is what they call a catch-22 if you're in love with ultra light and compact headless extended range guitars.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 20, 2018)

Having owned multiple vm8s and bodens. I'll say buy a used vader. Far better bang for your buck. Hipshot hardware is more durable, stays in tune better, has a better powder coat, easier to turn the tuning pegs and easier to adjust the action/intonation if needed. The extra .5 in doesn't significantly add to the string tension for the boden. The vader is far more comfortable imo, with a better forearm contour and better jack placement if you play in the classical position. Aesthetically speaking most used kiesels, barring solid finishes, have far more figured woods for the price. If you like larger strings then the hipshot tuners can support bigger strings before having to be drilled out. I have a .090 from labella on my vm8s and it stays clear down to d1. Labella makes the clearest erg strings ime


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## DudeManBrother (Jan 20, 2018)

Ola announced on a video a couple weeks ago that he is making some tephlon washers that snap onto the tuner to fix the stiff tuning issue. I believe they will be standard on new builds; and anybody that owns a strandberg with stiff tuners will be able to get a set for the shipping fee. Not sure when they’ll be available though.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Having owned multiple vm8s and bodens. I'll say buy a used vader. Far better bang for your buck. Hipshot hardware is more durable, stays in tune better, has a better powder coat, easier to turn the tuning pegs and easier to adjust the action/intonation if needed. The extra .5 in doesn't significantly add to the string tension for the boden. The vader is far more comfortable imo, with a better forearm contour and better jack placement if you play in the classical position. Aesthetically speaking most used kiesels, barring solid finishes, have far more figured woods for the price. If you like larger strings then the hipshot tuners can support bigger strings before having to be drilled out. I have a .090 from labella on my vm8s and it stays clear down to d1. Labella makes the clearest erg strings ime


It's pretty impossible to find a used Vm8 at a reasonable price. Ive seen only a couple go up on reverb in the past months and all had ridiculous options on them. I'd probably have to go new--which is fine. 
How is the neck feel on vader vs strandberg? Playability is the most important aspect to me. And a 0.09 gauge string? That seems like a good way increase the tension, but at some point the tone is going to suffer right?


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

makecamera said:


> I have a Kiesel Vader V8 that I ordered shortly after the name change from Carvin to Kiesel. I love it, but do agree that the 27" scale is not ideal for the 8th string. However, it's a bit different for me. I currently use an .080 gauge string (GHS Boomers) for the 8th tuned to F and the tension feels fine. My problem is that I prefer .07x gauge because the .080 feels like it's too thick and doesn't have that snappy attack. It makes it harder to dial in your tone and feels weird/soft because of the thickness. It also doesn't help that (IMO) the Lithium pickups are too warm/soft sounding. It sounds awesome coil tapped though. As for the string locks, I've never experienced string slippage and I've gone through quite a few gauges and brands trying to find a good middle ground tension for various tunings.
> 
> I recently went looking for a 7 string to complement my 8. With all the posts about Kiesel customer service, I was afraid to order from them. I tried a couple schecters (KM7 MKII and SLS Elite with the Fishman Fluence Moderns) at DCGL (WMI made, I believe) and the fit and finish didn't feel nearly as good as my V8 - granted, they were prototypes and didn't seem setup properly. That actually made me bite the bullet and put an order in for a VM7. I'm still very hesitant. I don't like supporting companies with that type of ethos, but damn if the Vaders aren't (almost) the perfect guitar for me. I kept the order simple and functional (no fancy woods or finishes) so it's returnable and I might just do that out of principle when it arrives.
> 
> ...



Those new Tosin Abasi signatures look great--but way to heavy lol. If only Ibanez decided to go headless. Are you hoping the 27.5 inch scale will add to the string tension? Im worried it won't do much :/
If I was going for a 7-string I would FOR sure go with Kiesel. I love the sound of their pickups and loved the Vader feel. But Im not too sure that smaller fan is the best for 8-string :/


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

DudeManBrother said:


> Ola announced on a video a couple weeks ago that he is making some tephlon washers that snap onto the tuner to fix the stiff tuning issue. I believe they will be standard on new builds; and anybody that owns a strandberg with stiff tuners will be able to get a set for the shipping fee. Not sure when they’ll be available though.


Now that is cool. Would be interesting to know if the next batch in April-May will have these.


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## makecamera (Jan 20, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Those new Tosin Abasi signatures look great--but way to heavy lol. If only Ibanez decided to go headless. Are you hoping the 27.5 inch scale will add to the string tension? Im worried it won't do much :/
> If I was going for a 7-string I would FOR sure go with Kiesel. I love the sound of their pickups and loved the Vader feel. But Im not too sure that smaller fan is the best for 8-string :/



It's hard to say if 27.5" will be sufficient. But I feel like tension wise, an .080 at 27" is good for me so 27.5" should get me in the .07x range of string gauge that I prefer. Right now though, I'm not in the market for one and am praying that Aristides creates a lightweight, headless, multiscale, option with a 26.5" to 28" fan. Otherwise I'll be picking up an 080s in the next couple years.


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## makecamera (Jan 20, 2018)

Ideally, you'd be able to pick up both a Standberg and a VM8, spend some time playing both, and sell the one you like the least.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 20, 2018)

From what I hear, Kiesel changed their set screws on the headpieces to a larger screw, from 3/32, to 1/8. This is supposed to make string changes better and improve tuning. I don't know if this change has already worked it's way through completely to all string counts so that it's guaranteed from now on, but was something someone noticed when they were sent a replacement head piece: that the screws on the newer headpiece were slightly beefier, and they measured the screws.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 20, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> It's pretty impossible to find a used Vm8 at a reasonable price. Ive seen only a couple go up on reverb in the past months and all had ridiculous options on them. I'd probably have to go new--which is fine.
> How is the neck feel on vader vs strandberg? Playability is the most important aspect to me. And a 0.09 gauge string? That seems like a good way increase the tension, but at some point the tone is going to suffer right?


The neck on.my vm8 is basically a round D shape of sorts. I really prefer it over the endurneck, which is pretty bulky and my least favorite neck profile (and i am far from picky when it comes to neck profiles). It's very much a love/hate vibe with the endurneck, it's very polarizing. Also all the supposed benefits of it over other neck is rendered moot if you play with classical technique/your thumb on the midline of the neck already. I only have a .90 on that guitar because i use a weird tuning where i need it. I've experimented with a number of string brands and la bella is the clearest i've found


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## curlyvice (Jan 20, 2018)

Might I suggest the Ormsby Goliath GTR? Great bang for the buck and plenty of tension on the low end with a 28.2 inch scale length on the low end. There should be some extras available for purchase after NAMM


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

curlyvice said:


> Might I suggest the Ormsby Goliath GTR? Great bang for the buck and plenty of tension on the low end with a 28.2 inch scale length on the low end. There should be some extras available for purchase after NAMM


Now those do look interesting. I wish the website had actual photos of their stock rather than the weird graphic generated images...


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## TheaterOfTheme (Jan 20, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> From what I hear, Kiesel changed their set screws on the headpieces to a larger screw, from 3/32, to 1/8. This is supposed to make string changes better and improve tuning. I don't know if this change has already worked it's way through completely to all string counts so that it's guaranteed from now on, but was something someone noticed when they were sent a replacement head piece: that the screws on the newer headpiece were slightly beefier, and they measured the screws.


Thats interesting, how long ago did this person receive the replacement? That would help resolve one issue I had with the Vader.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 20, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Thats interesting, how long ago did this person receive the replacement? That would help resolve one issue I had with the Vader.



Hmm...actually, looking back now, I see that the situation I was thinking about was for a bass. the guitars may be different. He got his replacement headpiece 12/28/17 (less than a month ago). but again, it was for bass, so entirely likely different.


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## BigViolin (Jan 20, 2018)

Wonder how much LaBella would have to charge for custom length double balls. Probably never happen due to such a limited market, but for me they would be the perfect system and I'd pay.


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## StevenC (Jan 20, 2018)

Strandberg will ship today and have a great return policy.


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## curlyvice (Jan 20, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Now those do look interesting. I wish the website had actual photos of their stock rather than the weird graphic generated images...



There should be pictures within the next couple of weeks. They’re being shipped to Ormsby HQ from WMI next week so people with pre-orders should be getting them in their hands within 3-4 weeks. I ordered a 6 in the copper finish and will post some pics once I get it.


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## Avedas (Jan 21, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Those new Tosin Abasi signatures look great--but way to heavy lol. If only Ibanez decided to go headless.


New Tosin line won't be with Ibanez. The new brand might make headless models.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Feb 4, 2018)

Alright, I appreciate all of the feedback! I went a different direction and went through with a Kiesel Osiris OM8. I went down to the Kiesel shop in Escondido, CA and was blown away by this new model. Not only that, but the customer service at Kiesel was phenomenal--it was an absolutely amazing environment. It makes me doubt some of those who throw down hate online about their service. They are an unbeatable company in terms of everything they offer and the dirt-cheap prices at which it comes. Ok, not dirt cheap, but definitely not Stranberg prices! In addition, I was informed by the manager at the showroom that because business has been so good, they currently have all full-time employees and no temporary workers--which obviously lends to an increase in quality. I personally found the company to be charming and a breath of fresh air compared to all of the over-seas shenanigans of most companies.

Anyways, comparing Kiesel 8-strings--the bolt-on neck of the Kiesel Osiris creates a crisp and beautiful low-end that is _perfect_ for an 8-string. This is due to an apparently higher distribution of force alone the neck compared to the Vader (which is a neck-through). The Vader VM8 is a great guitar. However, I would personally not get a Vader in 8-strings. The Vader makes far more sense as a seven string guitar, as it has insane access to the high frets and I still wasn't super impressed with the tension of the low F# (I guess I am very picky about that). And to top all of this off, the Kiesel Osiris OM8 is nearly $1000 cheaper than a Boden 8 and a good deal cheaper than a Vader. And while I can't make a direct comparison to a Boden, I know this guitar is going to be glorious!

All this being said, I will certainly post more when this baby comes out.


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 4, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Alright, I appreciate all of the feedback! I went a different direction and went through with a Kiesel Osiris OM8. I went down to the Kiesel shop in Escondido, CA and was blown away by this new model. Not only that, but the customer service at Kiesel was phenomenal--it was an absolutely amazing environment. It makes me doubt some of those who throw down hate online about their service. They are an unbeatable company in terms of everything they offer and the dirt-cheap prices at which it comes. Ok, not dirt cheap, but definitely not Stranberg prices! In addition, I was informed by the manager at the showroom that because business has been so good, they currently have all full-time employees and no temporary workers--which obviously lends to an increase in quality. I personally found the company to be charming and a breath of fresh air compared to all of the over-seas shenanigans of most companies.
> 
> Anyways, comparing Kiesel 8-strings--the bolt-on neck of the Kiesel Osiris creates a crisp and beautiful low-end that is _perfect_ for an 8-string. This is due to an apparently higher distribution of force alone the neck compared to the Vader (which is a neck-through). The Vader VM8 is a great guitar. However, I would personally not get a Vader in 8-strings. The Vader makes far more sense as a seven string guitar, as it has insane access to the high frets and I still wasn't super impressed with the tension of the low F# (I guess I am very picky about that). And to top all of this off, the Kiesel Osiris OM8 is nearly $1000 cheaper than a Boden 8 and a good deal cheaper than a Vader. And while I can't make a direct comparison to a Boden, I know this guitar is going to be glorious!
> 
> All this being said, I will certainly post more when this baby comes out.


wat. the osiris is only 100$ cheaper than a vader for base price. Besides that I call bullshit on the osiris/zeus somehow having better tension when they're the exact same scale lengths as those on the vaders (27" for straight scale, 27.5"-26" on multiscale). Besides if the tension of the F# is an issue then slapping a slightly bigger string on mitigates that. 
Bolt ons can sound snappier if that's what you mean. My maple necked vm8 is just as snappy as my bolt-on 8 strings though.


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## gujukal (Feb 4, 2018)

New headless guitars from kiesel are extremely ugly imo, they never learn to do some nice designs except the vader. I would go with goliath or boden.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Feb 4, 2018)

I wouldn't ask for other people's thoughts. 

Your likes are not going to be the same as others. Try them for yourself and make a decision. It's what you want not what we want.

At the end of the day, you're the one who has to play the guitar.


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## sezna (Feb 4, 2018)

gujukal said:


> New headless guitars from kiesel are extremely ugly imo, they never learn to do some nice designs except the vader. I would go with goliath or boden.


Yeah I find most of them ugly (vanquish and osiris.....and oh god the chris letchford sig) but the Vader is really good looking and feeling. the Zeus is unique. I’m undecided on it as of now...


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## spudmunkey (Feb 4, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> wat. the osiris is only 100$ cheaper than a vader for base price. .



The only other pricing difference would be if you wanted a tung oil neck, which is included with the bolt-on a and an upcharge on the Vader, for about a $140 total difference. I suppose 10% isn't insignificant if you're talking about a $1400 total guitar (with a few options, case, shipping, maybe tax, etc).


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## makecamera (Feb 4, 2018)

For price/features comparison, it seems that the base Kiesel OM8 is more closely aligned with the Strandberg Classic. So they're about the same price (one being USA, the other being Chinese). An OM8 that is similarly specced to an Original or Metal model gets close (chambered Swamp Ash, standard maple or flame maple top, solid or translucent color, case, Fishman Fluence, etc). So $1000 is a bit of a stretch, but if none of those features matter then you can definitely get more for your money with Kiesel, especially if your ideal price point falls somewhere between 1400 and 2400.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Feb 4, 2018)

Yeah, I for one have always loved the Kiesel lithiums and don't care for fancy woods--so spending up to 2200 on woods plus fisherman's (which are cool but kinda generic in my mind) is not really worth it. The playability difference between the bolt-on vs the through neck was enough for me to notice it. It really feels a bit different. If y'all get the chance, Id definitely recommend trying them out head-to-head. And of course, as mentioned above, this is a a matter of personal choice essentially. Its still pretty wild that the functionality of such a sick guitar can come to a decently reasonable price--and not made in some random overseas factory. Only down side of the OM8 is the accessibility to the higher frets--its not as good as in the Vader. Such is the nature of a bolt on.

And in regards to the appearances--Im not a big fan of the Zeus. But the Osiris is basically just a headless superstrat. Nothing to argue with there--and the extended range models do look more appealing to me. After all, the headless guitars are mostly designed with extended range players in mind. If you want a sick 6 string, there's a lot of better options out there than a multi scale headless guitar. The attributes of multi scale and headless don't really start being a benefit until you have a bunch of extra strings needing different tensions and extra weight coming into the equation. If I was getting a 6-string, I'd probably get a Suhr or a different model from Kiesel (like aries or something).


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## Hollowway (Feb 4, 2018)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> Alright, I appreciate all of the feedback! I went a different direction and went through with a Kiesel Osiris OM8. I went down to the Kiesel shop in Escondido, CA and was blown away by this new model. Not only that, but the customer service at Kiesel was phenomenal--it was an absolutely amazing environment. It makes me doubt some of those who throw down hate online about their service.



OK, but you haven't actually experienced customer service, though. What you're describing is sales and marketing. Customer service comes AFTER you buy the instrument. Before that, you're just a potential sale, not a customer. No one criticizes Kiesel as lacking in marketing and sales. The issues come when someone gets something they didn't order, and Kiesel won't honor their policies, and/or bans the customer from ever ordering again. Kiesels are great playing instruments, and the base models are great value for the money. But, what has changed in the last few years, is that they disappear after money changes hands, and at that point you're on your own. The reason Ola has built a strong brand is that he is there after the sale, and has a reputation of ALWAYS making things right. As someone who owns both Kiesel and Strandberg models, there is no difference in quality. But customer service is worlds different. That being said, hopefully everything works out well for you!


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## TheaterOfTheme (Feb 4, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> OK, but you haven't actually experienced customer service, though. What you're describing is sales and marketing. Customer service comes AFTER you buy the instrument. Before that, you're just a potential sale, not a customer. No one criticizes Kiesel as lacking in marketing and sales. The issues come when someone gets something they didn't order, and Kiesel won't honor their policies, and/or bans the customer from ever ordering again. Kiesels are great playing instruments, and the base models are great value for the money. But, what has changed in the last few years, is that they disappear after money changes hands, and at that point you're on your own. The reason Ola has built a strong brand is that he is there after the sale, and has a reputation of ALWAYS making things right. As someone who owns both Kiesel and Strandberg models, there is no difference in quality. But customer service is worlds different. That being said, hopefully everything works out well for you!


Indeed--thanks for the well wishes! I do think that as Kiesel expands their market they have opened themselves up to such situations. They are producing a good deal of instruments and only have one physical location in the world...And that plus the ridiculous amount of options they have available is definitely a recipe for at least needing scrutiny in their customer service. I suppose I will withhold judgement on these matters till after the fact. Although, I do think you get a bit better experience from actually going in and ordering. For instance, based on all of my preferences, the manager of the showroom is going to set the instrument up when I pick it up. Its a super small-town company vibe their. Perhaps their national game is not up to par--but I don't think there is anything quite like Kiesel guitars in person.

What specific differences in service have you experienced?


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## Hollowway (Feb 4, 2018)

Yeah, I’ve been in their showroom on a number of occasions. Honestly, it’s just like going to any other high end guitar shop. I can’t imagine spending that kind of money on a guitar and not having it set up by their tech just the way you want. Just for kicks, check out what you get, service-wise, with Rich from Ibanez Rules. And also Nick from the Axe Palace. Mind you, I’m not saying it wasn’t a good experience. I just don’t think it’s that unique. 

And I could list the service issues I’ve had, but probably the best bet is to just look at the online threads on the subject. I’ve been yelled at by them, had prices change after the fact, been misquoted, misinformed, had issues with a guitar after having received it, etc. Overall, they’re still great instruments. But I’ve had a number of different instruments, from Kiesel to KxK, Drinkwater, Fast, BRJ, Siggery, etc. All of those companies have gone way beyond anything I’ve heard of Jeff doing. Even BRJ completely remade a custom because one of the neck woods was wrong. And he’s the worst of the bunch! (For the record, Tom Drinkwater wins the award for best customer service.) Maybe I’m naive, but my expectation is that if I spend a lot of money on a guitar, the company is going to want to keep me happy. There are just too many stories of Jeff being unwilling to part with a nickel of his money to keep a customer happy. So basically, I don’t judge a company based on what they’re like when everything goes well. I judge them based on what happens when things go south. Do they still have your back? Are they willing to take a business loss of income to keep a relationship with a customer? That, to me, is what builds repeat business.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey y'all. A long 1.5 year follow up on this post.

The Osiris is an amazing guitar. I've played a few more high-quality instruments since then and it remains my favorite guitar by a good margin. I am personally glad I didnt go with the Strandberg OS-8 as it turns out I'm not the biggest fan of the endurneck neck-profile when on the 8-strings. I love the endurneck on a 6-string though--and am looking for a 6-string strandie as we speak lol

The biggest downside to this instrument are the Lithium pickups. I am kicking myself for not getting the Fishman Fluences! I had a Vader with Lithiums before and they sounded great! For some reason, they are wayyy too bright on this alder bolt-on configuration. I am hoping to either get some custom Duncans or Guitarmory PU's.

Anyways, Kiesel may not be Ferrari-level quality, but they are just about as good as something can get without hating yourself if you accidentally dent it. 

Here is a pic as well haha--a very very late NGD!


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## plainfaced (Sep 4, 2019)

Nice axe dude.. I had always wanted a Kiesel.. But with exchange rates from USD to AUD, pricing a guitar always killed me.. I ended up going GOC Materia - and while I was also hit with the exchange rate. The cost was a lot more reasonable.


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## TheaterOfTheme (Sep 4, 2019)

plainfaced said:


> Nice axe dude.. I had always wanted a Kiesel.. But with exchange rates from USD to AUD, pricing a guitar always killed me.. I ended up going GOC Materia - and while I was also hit with the exchange rate. The cost was a lot more reasonable.


Thanks! Honestly, those GOC materias are so aesthetically pleasing! One other downside to the Osiris (or any headless Kiesel) is that the strings just poke off the end of the neck with no wood 'shelf' or whatever designed to sort of be under the excess string. Ah well, trivial matters.

But dude! You are in Ormsby land! Why not go that route?


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## plainfaced (Sep 4, 2019)

TheaterOfTheme said:


> But dude! You are in Ormsby land! Why not go that route?



I have a Metal X 7 from Run 11 on order  - Hopefully here by March


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## TheaterOfTheme (Sep 4, 2019)

plainfaced said:


> I have a Metal X 7 from Run 11 on order  - Hopefully here by March


haha that is way too much for me now. I would have died for that in high school though. Have fun shredding that bad boi


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