# Fortin Sigil Lunchbox 20W Amp



## Musiscience (Jan 24, 2020)

I don't think this has been posted yet. Fortin is releasing a 20W Lunchbox amp. It's small and sounds absolutely savage.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 24, 2020)

We did have a thread but it got locked.


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## Musiscience (Jan 24, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> We did have a thread but it got locked.



Oh really? I searched for it before posting but could not find one. Mods, please delete if indicated.


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## Werecow (Jan 24, 2020)

Musiscience said:


> Oh really? I searched for it before posting but could not find one. Mods, please delete if indicated.



It needs a thread so that people can talk about the actual amp. Trouble is people keep jumping in solely to talk shit about stuff surrounding the company.


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## oneblackened (Jan 24, 2020)

Played it at namm. Con confirm, it rips.


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## Musiscience (Jan 24, 2020)

Werecow said:


> It needs a thread so that people can talk about the actual amp. Trouble is people keep jumping in solely to talk shit about stuff surrounding the company.



May it be that thread then! The price is actually somewhat reasonable at 1299$.


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## Jeff (Jan 24, 2020)

oneblackened said:


> Played it at namm. Con confirm, it rips.



What's it sound like? Analogous to anything?


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## thrashinbatman (Jan 24, 2020)

Musiscience said:


> May it be that thread then! The price is actually somewhat reasonable at 1299$.


Was just about to make a joke about this thing was gonna cost like $2400 but that's not too bad.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 24, 2020)

thrashinbatman said:


> Was just about to make a joke about this thing was gonna cost like $2400 but that's not too bad.



Soldano's got you covered fam.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Jan 24, 2020)

Best sounding lunchbox I've heard so far, from clips and the price is right.

The Dover 20w however is also a contender although I don't know the price.

Check out Jers videos tho, theyre usually the best namm quality.


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## Bearitone (Jan 24, 2020)

Sounds too marshally for my taste. Cool though


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## sevenfoxes (Jan 24, 2020)

Sounds mean as fu$!


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## wakjob (Jan 25, 2020)

Hearing it AFTER the 'Evil Pumpkin' was a mistake.


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Jan 27, 2020)

I was expecting these to be made in China, considering it's a Fortin and only costs $1250, but apparently they're made in the UK (or at least that's what the reply I got from the Fortin youtube channel says).


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## Backsnack (Jan 27, 2020)

People I talked to at NAMM who tried it in person thought it sounded great. (I didn't get to go into NAMM this year unfortuantely, so I couldn't try it myself.)


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## Vyn (Jan 27, 2020)

wakjob said:


> Hearing it AFTER the 'Evil Pumpkin' was a mistake.



Yeah, in the Thomann vid they should have done the Sigil first. The Evil Pumpkin sounded godly, was going to be hard for anything smaller to compete with that back-to-back


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## MistaSnowman (Jan 28, 2020)

Having a hard time choosing between this amp and the PRS MT 15. They both sound really nice.


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## jclogston (Jan 28, 2020)

MistaSnowman said:


> Having a hard time choosing between this amp and the PRS MT 15. They both sound really nice.



Same here plus the new engl fireball 25 or even the ironball...


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## Azarea (Jan 28, 2020)

jclogston said:


> Same here plus the new engl fireball 25 or even the ironball...


Do we have pricing information on the new Engl amps ?

I don't think the MT15 and the Sigil are in the same bracket. For 1250$ you can get MUCH more amp than a 20W 2 channel lunchbox amp. On the top of my head, the JVM410H is about 1200€ in Europe for a 4 channel 100W Marshall, the 5153 50 watters are 1100€ with 3 channels. Both are MIDI controlable as well...
I know it's the boutique/hype tax but still it's a bit light on features for the money.

I'm just not sure I'm hearing something from the Sigil I couldn't get from a JVM or a 5153 (maybe with a boost/EQ), with also much more variety available. The MT15, on the other hand, looks like a crazy value proposition at 550€.


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## jclogston (Jan 28, 2020)

I believe the Engl Fireball 25 is $1350, while the Ironball SE $1450. The original is Ironball is $1200 though I can see its price dropping with the SE coming out.


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## thrashinbatman (Jan 28, 2020)

jclogston said:


> I believe the Engl Fireball 25 is $1350, while the Ironball SE $1450. The original is Ironball is $1200 though I can see its price dropping with the SE coming out.


This is wild to me, since you can get a Fireball 100 for less used. You'd have to be really committed to the low-wattage thing and the features to pick the 25 over the 100.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 28, 2020)

How do 6V6 power amp tubes compare to 6L6 one's on say an MT15? 

I tried big glass mini wattage amp (MT15, JCM Mini) and they sound really good with full low end compared to tiny sounding el84s. Will the 6V6 on this amp be as good?


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## Azarea (Jan 28, 2020)

jclogston said:


> I believe the Engl Fireball 25 is $1350, while the Ironball SE $1450. The original is Ironball is $1200 though I can see its price dropping with the SE coming out.


Considering the Ironball is 800€ in Europe, it makes me wonder about the fireball 25 then. The feature set looks promising.
For once it looks like it's actually a good thing to be this side of the ocean... As long as you don't want anything with Mesa written on it.


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## wakjob (Jan 28, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> How do 6V6 power amp tubes compare to 6L6 one's on say an MT15?
> 
> I tried big glass mini wattage amp (MT15, JCM Mini) and they sound really good with full low end compared to tiny sounding el84s. Will the 6V6 on this amp be as good?



I can attest only to the JJ6v6S tube...note the "S".
They are stout. More 6L6 than say Fender Princeton.


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## efiltsohg (Jan 28, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> How do 6V6 power amp tubes compare to 6L6 one's on say an MT15?
> 
> I tried big glass mini wattage amp (MT15, JCM Mini) and they sound really good with full low end compared to tiny sounding el84s. Will the 6V6 on this amp be as good?



the enormous JJ 6V6S, while evidently not 6L6, lend a lot to a small amp IMO. 6V6 in general, slightly better than EL84


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## lord of chads (Jan 29, 2020)

It sounds pretty chunky. Reminds me of a Victory Kraken.


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## LeftOurEyes (Jan 30, 2020)

According to Fortin's instagram the Sigil preorder starts monday and the Evil Pumkin starts in March and the price has finally been reviled at $2,995.

Funny they kept saying it would be under $3k and kept throwing different numbers around but I had a feeling it would barely be under just so they could say that it was.


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## Hollowway (Jan 30, 2020)

Man, I’m really curious what all these Fortin amps sound like next to each other. Someone needs to make an A/B amp comparison like the Haggerty’s Music videos.


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## narad (Jan 30, 2020)

lord of chads said:


> It sounds pretty chunky. Reminds me of a Victory Kraken.




They're UK-made, right? I mean, potentially it could be Victory making them.


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## Hollowway (Jan 30, 2020)

narad said:


> They're UK-made, right? I mean, potentially it could be Victory making them.


Whoa, I bet you’re right!


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## technomancer (Jan 30, 2020)

LeftOurEyes said:


> According to Fortin's instagram the Sigil preorder starts monday and the Evil Pumkin starts in March and the price has finally been reviled at $2,995.
> 
> Funny they kept saying it would be under $3k and kept throwing different numbers around but I had a feeling it would barely be under just so they could say that it was.



The first number I heard discussed was $3300 and it's in line with other products in the category so really can't complain about that. We'll see if it's back to the full payment up front three month wait deal or if they're actually short build / in stock like the last couple runs of Calis. I want one, but not enough to pay up front with a 3 month build time.



narad said:


> They're UK-made, right? I mean, potentially it could be Victory making them.



Could also be Hiwatt since Mike has designed an amp with them and they have a UK factory.


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## Werecow (Jan 30, 2020)

technomancer said:


> Could also be Hiwatt since Mike has designed an amp with them and they have a UK factory.



Another possibility is that new Dover Amplification company. One of the head Hiwatt guys left and formed it with others from various companies. He's a huge metalhead and seemed to be the guy at Hiwatt who came up with the idea of doing a metal amp with Fortin.


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## narad (Jan 30, 2020)

Ah yea, Dover makes some sense (despite that they're already putting out an amp that's potentially the closest competitor for this thing). Hiwatt crossed my mind, but they have enough trouble making Super-Hi 50s. Doubt they're in a good position to be taking on any additional production burdens.


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## StevenC (Jan 31, 2020)

narad said:


> They're UK-made, right? I mean, potentially it could be Victory making them.


A friend at NAMM was told who it was and wasn't particularly familiar with the name. Can't remember who it actually was, but not Dover, Hiwatt or Victory.


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## oneblackened (Jan 31, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> How do 6V6 power amp tubes compare to 6L6 one's on say an MT15?
> 
> I tried big glass mini wattage amp (MT15, JCM Mini) and they sound really good with full low end compared to tiny sounding el84s. Will the 6V6 on this amp be as good?


6V6s sound like "6L6s, but less". More headroom within a given circuit than EL84s.


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 2, 2020)

nvm


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## technomancer (Feb 2, 2020)

That's not the Sigil though, it's the Cali and Pumpkin in stereo



KnightBrolaire said:


> absolutely filthy chuggies and laser pew pews. sounds pretty gnarly imo


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 2, 2020)

technomancer said:


> That's not the Sigil though, it's the Cali and Pumpkin in stereo


I know but I figured it was somewhat relevant to the thread since every other fortin thread has been nuked.


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## technomancer (Feb 2, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I know but I figured it was somewhat relevant to the thread since every other fortin thread has been nuked.



Yeah most of the Fortin vids are ending up in the NAMM 2020 thread unless it's the Sigil. There are some great clips of Teemu from Wintersun on the Pumpkin over there.


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## DudeManBrother (Feb 2, 2020)

6v6 is an interesting choice for this amp. Considering the SC 20W Marshall JCM800’s are using full EL34’s and also scale power from 20w to 5-6ish watts. Price is right in line, and is already a modded version of the 800 anyways, so it saves the hassle of PCB wrestling


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## axxessdenied (Feb 3, 2020)

I really want one. It sounded sick. I think they've got guys in the UK assembling these things. It's all PCB and made for quicker manufacturing turn around time versus all of his handwired stuff.


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## SamSam (Feb 3, 2020)

Looks like the preorder is sold out already.

Edit: reverb link seems fine


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## LeftOurEyes (Feb 3, 2020)

I dunno the youtube videos so far hasn't done it for me with the Sigil and I personally have absolutely no interest in buying products without at least some good sound clips of it in use to get an idea of how it sounds. Bad NAMM videos are not a good reference really.


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## SamSam (Feb 3, 2020)

I wanted to like this much more than I do. Clean + channel 2 would have been way better for myself and I imagine most users.


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## technomancer (Feb 3, 2020)

SamSam said:


> I wanted to like this much more than I do. Clean + channel 2 would have been way better for myself and I imagine most users.



Yeah from the clips I am way more interested in the Pumpkin


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## SamSam (Feb 3, 2020)

technomancer said:


> Yeah from the clips I am way more interested in the Pumpkin



The pumpkin does sound fucking brutal


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## Korneo (Feb 4, 2020)

I'm intetrested by this amp but I really don't like and trust the 6v6...
I used to play on an EL84 amp and I really hate the tone when the master is high... I've try several amp with this "little" power tube (EL84 and 6v6) and don't like any of them.
They should follow the path of the MT15 with 2 6L6...

Wait and see


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## Wolfhorsky (Feb 4, 2020)

I second that with EL84s they squish the dynamics and cut low end when crancked. I sounds muddy and mushy in a bad way and I like saggy tones, but not so much. At least this is my personal experience (Orange Dark Terror and Mesa Rec 25). Oh, maybe the Orange TH30 is better because of bigger iron and more power/headroom. MT15 is percievely louder and uummmpphhhier than its dual-el84 brothers. 6v6 are used by Fender for like forever. I wonder how it can handle a live gig situation. Revv is also using 6v6s in their lunchbox amps as well. We shall see.

BTW. Here’s the begining of my cover band’s gig. I used MT15 on clean channel. Vol was 45-50%. I used Pussy Melter as the drive. It was turned on all the time. „Clean-ish” sound is the internal single coils and vol pot (with treble bleed) rolled off considerably. No mic-ing. Only 1x12” Suhr ported cab with v30. Friends from the audience told me that my sound was filling the whole big room with 200 or more ppl.


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## jclogston (Feb 4, 2020)

Korneo said:


> I'm intetrested by this amp but I really don't like and trust the 6v6...
> I used to play on an EL84 amp and I really hate the tone when the master is high... I've try several amp with this "little" power tube (EL84 and 6v6) and don't like any of them.
> They should follow the path of the MT15 with 2 6L6...
> 
> Wait and see



The new engl fireball 25 uses 6L6s..


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## nightlight (Feb 11, 2020)

I love the concept of a lunchbox size Fortin amp, and while still expensive, I could even justify the price by the fact that it is a well-known boutique builder putting out a high gain amp in a convenient format. The only dealbreaker for me is that it doesn't have a completely clean channel, that's the same reason I sold my Kraken.

Interesting to hear the comments about the power tube section. The Mark V:25 I used to own, which used to have EL84s, sounded a bit thin imho (there's a YouTube video where Petrucci as usual sounds Godlike through one). The tone was there, but it just missed the power and thump in the low end that you need from a high gain amp, I though. I bought that amp twice, really loved the tone, but whenever I compared it to a bigger amp, it was disappointing.

The MT15 does indeed sound big. I just got one a few weeks ago. But what I don't like about the MT15 is that it hardly has any usable range with most of the controls. It has a specific sound, and you can dial around that sound, but you can't really get it to sound good at all settings. The gain in particular is already monstrous at around 10-11 o'clock. After that it just starts turning a bit mushy. You can fix some of those issues with a tube screamer and an EQ, but they do exist.

The Engl Ironball and the new Fireball seem like killer amps, I would love to try one. The Engl liquid smoothness and aggression is awesome, I love my Fireball 100 and Savage 120.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 11, 2020)

Mesa need big bottles. A lot of the sound of Mesas come from the power amp. They need the coloration, but at the same time they also need the headroom. The smaller tubes not only lack the depth, but they also break up a bit too early for my taste.

When I had my Mesas, I didn't crank the Masters very high.


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## nightlight (Feb 11, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Mesa need big bottles. A lot of the sound of Mesas come from the power amp. They need the coloration, but at the same time they also need the headroom. The smaller tubes not only lack the depth, but they also break up a bit too early for my taste.
> 
> When I had my Mesas, I didn't crank the Masters very high.



Just wasn't possible with the Triple Rec I had. Amp had to be loud. Too loud for my house, I had to move it on.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 11, 2020)

nightlight said:


> Just wasn't possible with the Triple Rec I had. Amp had to be loud. Too loud for my house, I had to move it on.



I actually really liked the sound of the Single Recto I had. It seemed to be more friendly with the Torpedo Live I had.


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## nightlight (Feb 11, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I actually really liked the sound of the Single Recto I had. It seemed to be more friendly with the Torpedo Live I had.



Yeah, 50 watts is more manageable than 150 watts. Using it with a reactive load is good, but I prefer to mic up cabs for no other reason than it's just an interesting way to get a tone. 

IRs are great, but I found that after I compared them to my Kemper, the Kemper cabinets are more 3D, possibly because an IR is a static capture in time. Going through a reactive load into Kemper's cabinet section is pretty hot, but compared to the Kemper cabs, a miced up cab is even better. Of course, that's YMMV and all that. I guess I just like screwing around with all that mic placement crap.


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## Wolfhorsky (Feb 11, 2020)

My experience with Mesas DR was that they sounded to me the best while in full power mode but master low - to have headroom and low dynamics. Also DRs gain structure without TS in front was not for me.
MT15 sound the best with v30s and eq pedalin the loop.


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## nightlight (Feb 11, 2020)

Wolfhorsky said:


> My experience with Mesas DR was that they sounded to me the best while in full power mode but master low - to have headroom and low dynamics. Also DRs gain structure without TS in front was not for me.
> MT15 sound the best with v30s and eq pedalin the loop.



That's interesting. I've always thought of it as one of those amps that needs to be cranked to get the goods. Definitely a yes on the tube screamer, they've got tonnes of usable low end, and it sounds like a jackhammer with a TS in front.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 11, 2020)

IMO on Rectos, the sweet spot is between 9:00 - 11:00 on the master. Anything lower is a fizzy mess, and higher gets too undefined.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 12, 2020)

IDK where to post this, but on the recent Coffee with Ola, Dino not-so-subtley hinted at a Fortin amp based on his old Metalhead Marshall. Gonna be called the Demanufacture. 

EDIT: While we're at it, he talked about his new Duncan Machete pickup. It's basically a Duncan Duality (coils) and Retribution (preamp) hybrid.


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## Werecow (Feb 12, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IDK where to post this, but on the recent Coffee with Ola, Dino not-so-subtley hinted at a Fortin amp based on his old Metalhead Marshall. Gonna be called the Demanufacture.



Just when i thought i was completely cured of GAS. Demanufacture is my favourite guitar tone. Maybe one last amp


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## MASS DEFECT (Feb 12, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IDK where to post this, but on the recent Coffee with Ola, Dino not-so-subtley hinted at a Fortin amp based on his old Metalhead Marshall. Gonna be called the Demanufacture.
> 
> EDIT: While we're at it, he talked about his new Duncan Machete pickup. It's basically a Duncan Duality (coils) and Retribution (preamp) hybrid.



Damn. That Dino amp is gonna be siiiick! And I hope that Machete pickup is available in soapbar seven so I can put it in a Wolbers sig guitar. lolololol


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 13, 2020)

If that metalhead copy sounds even vaguely close to Demanufacture, I'm gonna get it lol


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## gunshow86de (Mar 26, 2020)




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## narad (Mar 26, 2020)

Meh.


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## Werecow (Mar 26, 2020)

narad said:


> Meh.



I normally run really hot or really cold on Fortin amps, and i must admit this is the first meh for me too.


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## Cav (May 5, 2020)

Werecow said:


> Another possibility is that new Dover Amplification company. One of the head Hiwatt guys left and formed it with others from various companies. He's a huge metalhead and seemed to be the guy at Hiwatt who came up with the idea of doing a metal amp with Fortin.



Hi, any of your compared with the Dover?
I’m 99% sure they are the same amps with just different power tubes. 
I aked both Dover and Fortin on social media and they deleted my question...
Nice move for a potential customer. I was really interested in ordering one of the two.


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