# The 432hz conspiracy theory



## will_shred (Feb 7, 2018)

I know there is a conspiracy theory thread, but this was so hilarious I thought it deserved its own. 

According to this writer: 



> This frequency is essentially the Earth’s heartbeat; the frequency the Earth beats at.
> 
> Now, 432 Hz resonates with the frequency of 8 Hz. And here’s how…
> 
> ...



Okay so because the Schumann resonance is roughly 8 hz, when you multiply it by 54 you get 432hz, which is slightly lower than the widely adopted standard, A440. HZ just means cycles per second, measuring sound waves and electricomagnetic waves are completely different things. Lots of things are measured in hz that are completely unrelated to each other. Not like logic matters so this guy... Continuing where we left off. 



> This frequency, which is at the top end of the Theta range and at the start of the Alpha range, makes us feel very relaxed but conscious and open to intuitive learning. Listening to a concentrated recording of music at this frequency, like a binaural beats track, will synchronize (entrain) the brain to this state and induce the aforementioned effects.



Again, electrical activity in the is brain measured in Hz, which means cycles per second. Just because they're both measured is hz doesn't mean they're inherently related. The correlation between certain brain waves and the frequency of a slightly flat A note doesn't mean that they will have some magical effects on our personality. If you want to "synchronize" your brain, it would actually be better just to listen to music since listening to music engages more parts of your brain than just a sine wave, but if you enjoy listening to a 432hz sine wave, that's fine. 

but it gets better. 



> Think for a moment about all the frequencies that travel through your brain in a given day: cell phones, Wi-Fi, radio and microwaves.
> 
> All these exist at different frequencies and pull our brain from one frequency to the next.



No they don't. In extreme causes, giant electromaginets can be used to effect parts of the brain and we can study the effects, but the various kinds of EM/Radio/Microwave radiation that permeates our lives passes though the body without really interacting with it at all. The kinds of radiation that comes from uranium and cell phones aren't even comparable.

that's not even mentioning the fact that they don't have a single citation for any of the claims they make. 



> According to music theory, A=432 Hz is mathematically consistent with the universe.



No. Just no. 



> Further evidence of a 432 Hz preference is found in ancient Greece, where instruments associated with Orpheus – the God of Music – were tuned at 432 Hz.
> 
> And get this, according to international researcher and musician Ananda Bosman, the majority of instruments unearthed from ancient Egyptian sites are tuned to, yes, you guessed it, A=432 Hz!
> 
> ...



okay, even though they don't cite their claim (like anything else), I'll give it to them. Even at that, just because certain ancient cultures had a preference for a slightly lower pitch for their instruments, doesn't even come close to proving their point. 



> The mathematical theory behind 432 Hz and its endorsement by famous musicians cannot be doubted, neither can the fact that the Earth is tuned at this frequency.



I thought you said it was tuned to 8hz? Just because 8 is a factor of 432 doesn't make them the same number  

but it gets even better. 



> Most theories centre around the belief that the 440 Hz frequency was deliberately adopted by governments/regimes as a way to manipulate and control the masses, making then lethargic, often borderline depressed and therefore easily influenced,
> 
> Perhaps the most popular conspiracy theory is that of Nazi Germany.
> 
> ...



I don't even... At this point even this writer adds the caveat "While this is certainly an interesting theory, there is no evidence to support this". 

finally 


> It is no surprise that when listening to the same music tuned at the two different frequencies (432 Hz and 440 Hz), most people say they feel a sense of relaxation after having listening to the 432 Hz version.



Its possible that 432hz might feel more "natural" to the human ear because of its lightly lower pitch, the lower pitch might give a more relaxed feeling than standard 440. However one would have to be listening to most music at 440, for there to even be a contrast with 432. So you could also say that if the standard pitch was 432, we could now be talking about the 424hz conspiracy theory. Since to people accustomed to 432 would find the slightly lower 424 to feel more relaxed. 

https://www.binauralbeatsmeditation.com/432-hz-truth-behind-natures-frequency/


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 7, 2018)

crazy people be crazy yo


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 7, 2018)

pleas nop


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## crankyrayhanky (Feb 7, 2018)

Yes to 432
Impossible to implement IME


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## bostjan (Feb 7, 2018)

If any bands decide to tune to A=432 Hz, more power to them. Or A= 415.3 Hz, or whatever, I don't care.

For me personally, I think it's rife with pseudoscience and flawed logic, but, at the end of the day, it either sounds good or not.

I'm almost certain we already had a thread about this.

EDIT: There were a bunch:

http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/432-hz.57796/
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/444hz-tuning-528hz.324606/
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/the-432-hz-vs-440-hz-music-frequency-thread.274605/
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/432-hz-god-note.271023/
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...imposition-of-standard-tuning-a-440hz.195340/

etc.


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## sezna (Feb 7, 2018)

what if I just define a new unit where 440 is some multiple of the schumann resonance in that other unit? is it magical then?


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## bostjan (Feb 7, 2018)

Maybe we should define a new unit for frequency: The Schmertz [Sz] as the frequency at which 432 Hz threads occur on the forum. Then we should tune the lowest tone to 432 Schmertz.


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## sezna (Feb 7, 2018)

bostjan said:


> Maybe we should define a new unit for frequency: The Schmertz [Sz] as the frequency at which 432 Hz threads occur on the forum. Then we should tune the lowest tone to 432 Schmertz.


Lol.

The point I was getting at though is that this argument boils down to a sort of human semantics argument. This 432 coincidence thing only really exists because of how we think about hertz and waves and things of that nature. Sure, hertz are a pretty natural way of measuring it, but a man-made way nonetheless, no?


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## Cyanide_Anima (Feb 7, 2018)

Yeah, that 432hz or 424hz stuff is total horse puckey. Just pseudospiritual nonsense so enlightened individuals can gloat about how much more connected to the universe they are compared to everyone else. But, even worse, it all just sounds out of tune and bad.


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## Lemonbaby (Feb 7, 2018)

Taylor Swift would sound so metal in 432Hz...


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## sezna (Feb 7, 2018)

metalheads have been downtuning for ages lol, old news


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## technomancer (Feb 7, 2018)

sezna said:


> Lol.
> 
> The point I was getting at though is that this argument boils down to a sort of human semantics argument. This 432 coincidence thing only really exists because of how we think about hertz and waves and things of that nature. Sure, hertz are a pretty natural way of measuring it, but a man-made way nonetheless, no?



Dude you totally only think that way because the lizard men overlords told you to.


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## Necris (Feb 7, 2018)

If I had a penny for every time there was a thread about 432hz or related ideas at least I could say I came away from the thread with something of value.


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## Xaios (Feb 7, 2018)

I cackle with glee every time I see a 432Hz thread, because it's just so entertaining to read.


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 7, 2018)

Cemetary Gates by Pantera is around 433Hz. Dimebag was shot because he was trying to free us from our lizard overlords


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## odibrom (Feb 7, 2018)

... It's the tone wood problem brought up at frequency level...


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## Slunk Dragon (Feb 8, 2018)

All I can say about these threads is just that... it Hertz.


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## Winspear (Feb 8, 2018)

Adam Neely has the perfect video shutting down this crap haha 

Nothing wrong with using any tuning system but all the pseudoscience behind 432hz shows a complete lack of understanding of sound, music, and logic pretty much haha


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## bostjan (Feb 8, 2018)

I love Adam Neely's channel, especially that video.

As a side note, I think I might work out a single where I tune A=0 Hz and just apply DC voltage to my pickups/a speaker/whatever. I don't expect it to be audible, but it'll be fun, at least.


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## A-Branger (Feb 9, 2018)

do you know a lot of metal bands actually rune to A=392 instead of A=440?

yeah its called dropC or D standard


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## CapinCripes (Feb 9, 2018)

A over middle C has been defined as many different frequencies over the course of classical music. it varied anywhere from a4= 392 hz to a4=465 hz and varied in some cases from city to city before becoming standardized. I fail to see how lowering it 8 hz imparts any kind of magic. also does nature use equal temperament or just temperament? I prefer not to ask the question of why notes are defined at the frequencies they are or why the ratio of a note from one octave to the next is 2:1. id rather race with the wheel given to me rather than to try remaking it.


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## r33per (Feb 10, 2018)

CapinCripes said:


> id rather race with the wheel given to me rather than to try remaking it.


What a superb sentence. Couldn't agree more - both in relation to this non-debate and in general.


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## Drew (Feb 10, 2018)

> The mathematical theory behind 432 Hz and its endorsement by famous musicians cannot be doubted, neither can the fact that the Earth is tuned at this frequency.


Any time a major assertion in your argument is a subjective statement presented, with no evidence, as something that "cannot be doubted," you're on thin ice.


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## EverDream (Feb 14, 2018)

I think stoner bands should tune to A4 = 420 Hz.  lol


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Feb 14, 2018)

I think there’s more info out there concerning the debunking of this myth than the endorsement of it. The conspiracy rests with those who present the latter as if the former isn’t more prevalent. Same goes for most of the assorted bogeymen and esoteric brain diarrheas documented in our conspiracy thread.


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## Dcm81 (Feb 14, 2018)

Winspear said:


> Adam Neely has the perfect video shutting down this crap haha
> 
> Nothing wrong with using any tuning system but all the pseudoscience behind 432hz shows a complete lack of understanding of sound, music, and logic pretty much haha




 Ninja'd................by nearly a week


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## rx (Mar 2, 2018)

People are amazing.


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## RND (Mar 15, 2018)

So thankful for that Adam Neely video, and this thread. Before, I was always confused as to what the hell 432 hz had to do with anything important. 

Pretty funny how this sort of unimportant detail can create such a fuss.


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## Willyjacksonjs22-7 (Apr 27, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> do you know a lot of metal bands actually rune to A=392 instead of A=440?
> 
> yeah its called dropC or D standard



I know this post is old but just to let you know ( maybe you found out already) drop C, D standard etc.. are part of the 440 tuning. You Are using its lower octave notes. nothing to do with 432.


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## c7spheres (Apr 27, 2019)

I tune to to near 432, and it is much better, imo. I'm one of the few people that actually found it on my own without actually trying to. I actually tuned to what I felt was best over a long period of time (years), by ear, and it ended up being close to it. That was long before the internet and people talking about it, and I had no idea of any "new age" theory or the history of it at all. I later discovered that stuff. The unfortunate thing is that people are pessimistic and ready to tear people apart. 432 is much less stressful than 440, especially at loud levels. It's not so much about 432hz, it's about what, I call, "pole" your tuned to, like a positive or negative. People are attracted to either one more than the other naturally, and within a certain range it's less noticeable or important, kinda like temperature. If you notice, every 8hz or so, I think, it doesn't matter what the freq is. If I tune to 432 it will also show in tune at somewhere around 454 or something, if I remember right, and all up and down the scale/tuner this way. It is an arbitrary way to measure, for sure. I saw that Adam Neely video. He is really smart with a lot of useful stuff, but he is obviously not experienced in it, he just did research and bashed it because he believes what the internet told, him, just like the 432 "wackos". I'm not bashing him, just saying he is not experienced with it, although I agree that most of what he says is true. Everyone is quick to bash on something they really know nothing about, and it is a bit unsettling. I don't like the way the internet presents it, like a lot of stuff. You have people expressing something they found that brings joy for them, and by trying to share it with partial or misinformed information, or with profits in mind, causes problems. Also, all those videos you see where they take a song and tune it down to 432 from it's original are not relevant. It doesn't work that way, because although the note may now be at 432, the beat freq. are still at 440 with the 432 etc. It's way to complicated and time consuming to get into this right now. 

In a recent thread (yesterday actually) about string gauges on an rg2027x I mentioned this and how I tune. Here is what I wrote: 
Nobody likes what I do. I use the DoubleEdge from a rg2027xvv on a custom Ibanez Style 25.5". Nobody likes it but my guages are: 70,56,44,30,wound24,13,11 Tuned Bb standard at 431.5Hz (I know, right?) My action is all messed up with it being the 1st fret about 0.5mm an the 24th fret being about 3.5-4mm height, all 5 springs on it with really high tension and the neck dead straight with zero bow to it. The intonation is perfect everywhere on the neck (within 2cents), even inverted intervals. It's because of the spring tension and how it reacts. It's really important to get the tension right for it to work. It's a pain to get it right. I love it. I'm the only person that does this, that I know of. I know, now everyone feel free to rip me apart : )

I encourage everyone to try it out for a long time, like a year, and see if it you like it. Really put it through it's paces and give it an honest open try. Everything else you hear, unfortunately, starts sounding the same and "honky" like a whining little baby, like an emo singer. Not to bash emo, though it's not my thing. Be open and realize that there is a lot of stuff, that we don't know and that doesn't make sense, but works. Realize that we play musical instruments. Instruments, not toys, games, etc. We, as people, are all "tuned" a little different. We can tolerate a certain range, like temperature, so 440 vs 432 is not a huge deal to most of us because we can adapt either way, some of us are just closer to one or the other making the other an extreme of a spectrum which makes us uncomfortable. As instuments, we can use them to meditate and thus tune/retune our bodys. Look into the these arts and how other instruments such as Sitar and Tampura can help with these energy centers etc. Those are oftened tuned to 440hz, not 432, but what everyone really wants to tune to is not what they are tuned to, as a being, unless your where you want to be, but somewhere along the patch of where they want to be (on a progression toward healing). I know it's getting weird now, so I'll stop. I encourage everyone to be mature and respectful towards other with alternate views and make an honest attempt to understand and find common ground and live in peace with them. 

I really hope this doesn't turn into a bashing thread, cause I just don't have the energy to waste for that.


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## DudeManBrother (Apr 27, 2019)

If it is all a multiplier steming from some “8hz earth frequency” that leads to 432: what happens when you add 8hz to 432? 440 happens. If 432 had magical powers then 440 would hold the same, being a factor of 55 vs 54.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 27, 2019)

until someone shows me multiple scientific peer reviewed journals about 432 vs 440 and their effects on the human brain, it's all a bunch of pseudoscience bullshit. the burden of proof is on the 432 believers.


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## MetalHex (Apr 27, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> until someone shows me multiple scientific peer reviewed journals about 432 vs 440 and their effects on the human brain, it's all a bunch of pseudoscience bullshit. the burden of proof is on the 432 believers.


They don't need to prove anything actually. Its not about how it effects the human brain, it's about how it effects their human brain. Try it and see how it effects you (or not). I think that goes along with what c7spheres was saying.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 27, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> They don't need to prove anything actually. Its not about how it effects the human brain, it's about how it effects their human brain. Try it and see how it effects you (or not). I think that goes along with what c7spheres was saying.


 Human perception is quite fallible (look up implanted memories/memory recovery if you don't believe me), I don't care how they "feel" unless it can be quantified and shown scientifically. At least in the scientific realm, if you're going to offer a hypothesis like 432hz having an effect on the human brain, then whoever proffered that hypothesis needs to prove it in a reproducible scientific manner.


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## MetalHex (Apr 28, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Human perception is quite fallible (look up implanted memories/memory recovery if you don't believe me), I don't care how they "feel" unless it can be quantified and shown scientifically. At least in the scientific realm, if you're going to offer a hypothesis like 432hz having an effect on the human brain, then whoever proffered that hypothesis needs to prove it in a reproducible scientific manner.


Im not sure what implanting fake memories has anything to do with this though. How the uninterrupted human brain reacts with different natural frequencies is nothing like purposely disrupting someones organic memory by implanting silicon in their brain.

Again, if you do try it for a year, you may actually "feel" something (or not) and be convinced that it actually does something.

No dog in this fight either way here, but you shouldn't dismiss it just because the material science world hasnt been able to explain it or prove it yet.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 28, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Im not sure what implanting fake memories has anything to do with this though. How the uninterrupted human brain reacts with different natural frequencies is nothing like purposely disrupting someones organic memory by implanting silicon in their brain.
> 
> Again, if you do try it for a year, you may actually "feel" something (or not) and be convinced that it actually does something.
> 
> No dog in this fight either way here, but you can't dismiss it just because the material science world hasnt been able to explain it or prove it yet.


I dismiss anything that hasn't been proven to a reasonable level by science. Putting silicon in someone's brain is not what I meant when talking about implanting memories, it's more where psychologists end up leading people into believing certain events are true like recovered molestation memories or memories of satanic rituals. It's pretty easy to get people to believe something happened to them, when it really didn't. That was my point, that perception is fallible and unreliable.


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## MetalHex (Apr 28, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I dismiss anything that hasn't been proven to a reasonable level by science. Putting silicon in someone's brain is not what I meant when talking about implanting memories, it's more where psychologists end up leading people into believing certain events are true like recovered molestation memories or memories of satanic rituals. It's pretty easy to get people to believe something happened to them, when it really didn't. That was my point, that perception is fallible and unreliable.


Gotcha. Fair enough


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## c7spheres (Apr 28, 2019)

DudeManBrother said:


> If it is all a multiplier steming from some “8hz earth frequency” that leads to 432: what happens when you add 8hz to 432? 440 happens. If 432 had magical powers then 440 would hold the same, being a factor of 55 vs 54.



Exactly. All frequencies have benefits and also can be destructive, depending on how they're used. The Schumann resonance is around 8hz. Tesla also had a varying view on what it was. It actually is going to be different depending on what part of Earth you're on from the equator as well and how far from the poles. That's why there is a varying range. It's like arguing what the best tuning for a guitar is. It just depends what resonates with you best based on the difference of how you're tuned(feel) at any given time, which also varies based where you are etc, but there is a range which is more tolerable for some people than others. Some love the heat, some the cold, some like it dry, humid etc. same type of thing. It's also like the difference between strict tempo and free tempo/pulse. The results are completeley different, especially when free jamming/improvising (like a loose sense of Rubato (in music)). The people claiming one or the other is better are both probably intuitively right for their specific circumstance, though they both could also be wrong. This is something that really can only be known by an actual practitioner who puts in the sincere time and effort/energy. Still 432 is not any better, necessarily. Kinda like Chi or something. However 432 is ,imo, generally better because it seems with having tuned in this area for over 20 years, the more noticeable that 440 really is harsher and 432 is nicer on the ears and body, especially at loud volumes. The first people who see the benefit are vocalists as they have considerably less strain on their voice. Many live shows you see may tune down a bit to ease the vocal strain on the singer as they wear out their voice night after night and it's maintainable, they don't have to keep going lower and lower. Also, I remember there was a push towards the change in the 1980's and many big time names in the classical camp were all for it. I think it didn't happen because of something to do with certain instrument designs not being able to adapt (probably wind instruments). 



KnightBrolaire said:


> until someone shows me multiple scientific peer reviewed journals about 432 vs 440 and their effects on the human brain, it's all a bunch of pseudoscience bullshit. the burden of proof is on the 432 believers.



I get it, totally. This is something I don't believe can be scientifically peer reviewed. It's like asking science to "prove" god exists. There are people who don't believe god exists, people who do, and people who know, and they're all right, in their own way. There's obviously specific things that science can prove/disprove about it, however. Just to make it clear. I don't claim 432hz is magical, but I do believe it's a better way to tune because of how it feels to me, and how it helps singer, which has not been scientifically proven and peer reviewed, but I'll take not only one of the top institutes word for it but also, almost not arguably, the best singers who have ever lived words for it. It would be nice a convenience for everything to be able to be nicely wrapped up in a scientifically prove-able package, but it's just not that way. Other things are like this. Many great inventors that changed our world claim things just came to them in dreams, something science knows nothing about. Science thinks dreams are something that happens in r.e.m. sleep, and that's true, but they never have explained why you can be dreaming out of r.e.m. sleep then. How many times have you woke up and you far past r.e.m. sleep? Like right before you wake up. Another thing people forget, and disagree on, is that science is a great tool, but is steadily drifting from the scientific process and into the realm of being it's own religion. I think pseudoscience, personally, is a great form of science. It mixes so well with the unreal and can bring about great things that do not exists, whether bad or good for the human race. Like electricity, fractal geometry and nuclear energy. It was all bullshit, until it wasn't. This computer exists because of at least 2 of the above.


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## MetalHex (Apr 28, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> Exactly. All frequencies have benefits and also can be destructive, depending on how they're used. The Schumann resonance is around 8hz. Tesla also had a varying view on what it was. It actually is going to be different depending on what part of Earth you're on from the equator as well and how far from the poles. That's why there is a varying range. It's like arguing what the best tuning for a guitar is. It just depends what resonates with you best based on the difference of how you're tuned(feel) at any given time, which also varies based where you are etc, but there is a range which is more tolerable for some people than others. Some love the heat, some the cold, some like it dry, humid etc. same type of thing. It's also like the difference between strict tempo and free tempo/pulse. The results are completeley different, especially when free jamming/improvising (like a loose sense of Rubato (in music)). The people claiming one or the other is better are both probably intuitively right for their specific circumstance, though they both could also be wrong. This is something that really can only be known by an actual practitioner who puts in the sincere time and effort/energy. Still 432 is not any better, necessarily. Kinda like Chi or something. However 432 is ,imo, generally better because it seems with having tuned in this area for over 20 years, the more noticeable that 440 really is harsher and 432 is nicer on the ears and body, especially at loud volumes. The first people who see the benefit are vocalists as they have considerably less strain on their voice. Many live shows you see may tune down a bit to ease the vocal strain on the singer as they wear out their voice night after night and it's maintainable, they don't have to keep going lower and lower. Also, I remember there was a push towards the change in the 1980's and many big time names in the classical camp were all for it. I think it didn't happen because of something to do with certain instrument designs not being able to adapt (probably wind instruments).
> 
> 
> 
> I get it, totally. This is something I don't believe can be scientifically peer reviewed. It's like asking science to "prove" god exists. There are people who don't believe god exists, people who do, and people who know, and they're all right, in their own way. There's obviously specific things that science can prove/disprove about it, however. Just to make it clear. I don't claim 432hz is magical, but I do believe it's a better way to tune because of how it feels to me, and how it helps singer, which has not been scientifically proven and peer reviewed, but I'll take not only one of the top institutes word for it but also, almost not arguably, the best singers who have ever lived words for it. It would be nice a convenience for everything to be able to be nicely wrapped up in a scientifically prove-able package, but it's just not that way. Other things are like this. Many great inventors that changed our world claim things just came to them in dreams, something science knows nothing about. Science thinks dreams are something that happens in r.e.m. sleep, and that's true, but they never have explained why you can be dreaming out of r.e.m. sleep then. How many times have you woke up and you far past r.e.m. sleep? Like right before you wake up. Another thing people forget, and disagree on, is that science is a great tool, but is steadily drifting from the scientific process and into the realm of being it's own religion. I think pseudoscience, personally, is a great form of science. It mixes so well with the unreal and can bring about great things that do not exists, whether bad or good for the human race. Like electricity, fractal geometry and nuclear energy. It was all bullshit, until it wasn't. This computer exists because of at least 2 of the above.


Yep. Same with the theory of epigenetics.


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## c7spheres (Apr 28, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Yep. Same with the theory of epigenetics.


That stuff is a trip. Pretty scary stuff. I predict great wars and healings in the next 100 years. Like maybe being able to live for hundreds or even thousands of years, and of course there's always the asshole that wants to dominate the world and kill everyone too.


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## A-Branger (Apr 28, 2019)

Willyjacksonjs22-7 said:


> I know this post is old but just to let you know ( maybe you found out already) drop C, D standard etc.. are part of the 440 tuning. You Are using its lower octave notes. nothing to do with 432.



C and D have nothing to do with 440, they arent A octaves..... in theory they are a name we give to a note X Hz away from A, in this case A being 440...... so if change A to 432, then C and D would become X and Y..... but putting that away, the actual frequency of our "standard" C and D arent direct relation to A

My comment and example is to show that. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe 432Hz is a "earth freq" or powerfiul/spiritual/whatever/magical frequency, and hey thats fine. But thats it. Unless we are talking about the octaves 864Hz, or 216Hz for example, (A5 and A3, if we go from A4=432Hz), then non of all the other 12 notes in our music system would hold any value as a magical frequency. Because non of them would fit the magical space/distace/resonance of 432

put it in this way..... Have you notice that sometimes, in some rooms, your bass player plays that ONE note that happens to sound WAY louder than the rest?.... thats the resonance of the room. Thats the one frequency (and their octaves) in which the leght of the waveform fits exactly the lenght of the room wall to wall. Hz is the cycle of a frequency going up and down on a second. You use that with the speed of sound and having the distance of the room and you can find the frequency that matches that (you can google the equation). So the waveform goes up/down-hits the wall at 0 value then bounces back up/down, thus repeating the cycle and loosing the less amount of energy.... Having perfectly smooth surfaces (mirrors) would help this way more and the frequency would bounce perfectly back on the same direction and not into other angle. This would help to have the frequency bouncing back and forth keeping it "alive" making it appear to sound louder, as the bass is still producing more frequencies which are being joined by the bounce of the previous ones on the room, so it gets "amplified" (like having two speakers, but one with less output as the more the frequency travels and bounces the more energy it looses)...... The opposite is true too, the frequency in which the wave lenght is exactly half of the room, so when it bounces back it does on the opposite polarity, which helps to cancel out the sound and making it decay quicker.

Mind you an instrument like a bass is not producing one frequency tone, the timbre of the instrument is made out of bunch of other frequencies, thats why a bass sounds like a "bass", and a electric guitar sounds like an electric guitar with X pickups, X pedal and X amp.... so some frequencies would resonate while others would cancel eachothers. Reason why some notes would sound luders and others dont on a room.

and reason why if you play a G and it resonantes like hell on a room, G# might do a little, and A way less, and A# not at all, same with B_C_C#_D_D# ect ect till you get back to the octave, which would resonante more, but not as more as the original G you played.

So yeah, 432Hz is MAGICAL (raibows explode), but every single other note you play on an instrument it wont, as it wont be a 432 Hz, it would be any other Hz frequency thats its NOT in resonance with whatever spiritual mumbojumbo

Also remember we dont play synthesizer with perfect frequencies, we play instruments with hundreds of other frequencies per note, that you brain interprets and translate into "ah! that is a C#!..." (according to what you train your brain to know what a C# is)


The reaosn why 432Hz would sound better to you, (and I actually said this in another similar tread), is because sounds different to YOU. Play a song. Now play it in 432... "wow sounds great" is the same as playing the same song with your guitar down half step (or to tune your guitar to A=415.30..... whatever floats you boat, same outcome) it would sound "different" it would be out of your comfort zone, out of "your rules" "different" and thats what it is. We tend to play certain notes more than others, certain scales we either like the sound of, or simply because we like the position of those notes on a guitar neck. Changing the tunning of the guitar pusshes us to play stuff in other scales while fingering and using our preffered "notes"..... Reason why a downtuned guitar would make you compose different music, due to the nature of your playing, and the limitations of the guitar (if you use a lot of open strings for example)...... and reason why capos are a thing, so you can play a song in a different key while being able to play the same 4 chord shapes you know and love instead of learning and figuring out new chord shapes and inversions, in which it might still sound "different" as the chords used are indeed different shapes/nots/inversions

TLDR: 432 sounds different and thats why you like it more


IF you still dont believe. Here, and please watch till the end


spoilers by Mr KnightBrolaire:


KnightBrolaire said:


> Human perception is quite fallible


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 28, 2019)

I used to have all my guitars tuned to 432 Hz until I joined a band not too long ago.


;>)/


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## c7spheres (Apr 28, 2019)

keep in mind that all measurements are basically arbitrary and based on relaly weird stuff, like time and the atom thing. Therefore, all scienctific measurements (E=MC2 etc) must all be bullshit too. The speed of sound. the weight of kgs and lbs,horse power), time, etc. yet, with this bullshit great things are and have happened. Practically everything was pseudoscience, loosely, before it was actual science. Just some shit that started in someones daydreaming brain. Likewise, 432 is arbitrary. All measurements are, that doesn't make them bullshit. An argument can also be made that 432 is not arbitrary, but I'm not going into that. They are just calibration points, but some are better in certain circumstances, like 432 for music, because it's better for singers, but almost nobody does it because a different standard is in place and instruments and everything have using it, but not for a long time at all. They basically made an almost irreversible mistake at the France thing where it was implemented, but because of mass production taking off and millions of instruments being made in such a short time, they never changed it back, although some of the greatest singers and musicians of our time pushed for it, and those are the real experts, not science, practitioners are. Remember that most people never tuned to 440 until less than a hundred years ago, and that's when all the masters existed long before that. They knew where the vocals needed to change between tenor and soprano voices and other voice shift registers. They never were tuned that high through all history really, until recently. Upon the new standard, which was highly opposed before it even happened, this caused much strain to vocalists ever since. It's really about this and the fact that it's more in tune with most human vocal chords etc. Just tune down and give your singer a break already! Then he can't have an excuse to bitch about why his voice isn't on point : )


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 29, 2019)

That's what I knew also that 432 Hz is concert pitch. Some of the best music in centuries composed by the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc. are in the sweet musical pitch of 432 Hz which I think I find soothing to listen to. Even my 21 guitars would agree about 432 Hz sounding so good.

I noticed throughout my many years of guitar playing that every time I tuned up a guitar without a tuning meter, it would always be tuned slightly flatter than 440 Hz. Maybe this indicated my inner tuning was tuned to 432 Hz...the frequency of Mother Earth. I think all of the doubters & haters of this fine frequency find it a threat to their plan to divide & conquer through unrest. And this unrest came through the frequency of 440 Hz designed to create confusion which was introduced by the government back in the early 1900's.

I believe 440 Hz is a population control catalyst mechanism. Remember an ideal & more manageable world population for the corporations to maintain is about 500,000,000 people. I notice also when I walk through the mall while shopping that the corporate music they are playing at 440 Hz really gives me a headache and I have trouble sleeping at night because the songs keep playing over and over again at 440 Hz inside my brain. If I could write a letter to the mall manager requesting to have mall music played at 432 Hz then he or she would probably be happy to oblige after reading my reasoning as explained just previously.

I think they use 440 Hz music in P.O.W. camps to torture their captives. It's an effective way of breaking the human mind and spirit. Here's evidence below of 440 Hz horror.




;>)/


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 29, 2019)

Here's over 10 hours of 432 Hz music to help you sleep. There are many videos like this plus others including 528 Hz. I've slept to this music and I find it refreshing. I challenge all the doubters & haters who call 432 Hz B.S. to listen for yourself this video and then you will be totally converted to this new musical religion known as 432 Hz. This video will transform you beyond belief. Your eyes & ears will be opened wide after this listening experience.




;>)/


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

BlackSG91 said:


> That's what I knew also that 432 Hz is concert pitch. Some of the best music in centuries composed by the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc. are in the sweet musical pitch of 432 Hz which I think I find soothing to listen to. Even my 21 guitars would agree about 432 Hz sounding so good.
> 
> I noticed throughout my many years of guitar playing that every time I tuned up a guitar without a tuning meter, it would always be tuned slightly flatter than 440 Hz. Maybe this indicated my inner tuning was tuned to 432 Hz...the frequency of Mother Earth. I think all of the doubters & haters of this fine frequency find it a threat to their plan to divide & conquer through unrest. And this unrest came through the frequency of 440 Hz designed to create confusion which was introduced by the government in the early 1900's.
> 
> ...



Funny Video. Many of the things you mention are what are considered the "conspiracy theory" about 432hz. I don't know if it's a fact or not actually that the old composers used exactly 432, but I know Verdi did, and I'm pretty sure Bach and Mozart were close to it. One I think was more around 415 and another around 410. Beethoven was at about 454 as it is generally accepted because they have his tuning fork in a museum. That gets back to what I was saying though earlier that If you change it up on a tuner you will notice that 432 and 454 are about the same. Only the notes' name changes, but it is the same actual sound. The same goes for I think 405 or 408, which is the same as 432 also. The point I'm trying to get across is that they were almost always tuned lower to accommodate for the human voice and where the shift register change. IF you really do your research on this you'll find somethign along the lines of right before ww2 a German came up with basically a tuner for instruments and sought out a standard, it varied all throughout Europe but the middle was around 430 something, but in regards to making their elctronics of the time work 440 was much easier to work with for everyones' needs. The governments took authority and made it the standard even though the people (singer and musicians) didn't want that and protested that, it was changed to 440 anyways. Then The Nazis' basically announced it along with everyone else around Europe and it was actually broadcast over the radio constantly (the actual tone) so people could make the adjustment. So after the war started and the rest is history, along with all the conspiracy stories, but yeah, it appears singers and musicians always had theier stuff lower, even though it greatly varied, and the exception was some of the major orchestras of time which actually were around 440, give or take, which obvisouly had greater influence, politically, and in regards to instrument manufacture. They were actually more of the exception to the rule, but the general population and most other orchestras tuned lower, according to the German guys research who invented the tuner thing. I don't have names or references or care much anymore. I just know it works for me. I'm more around 430-431 anyways. I start at 432 or 433 (whatever mood my guitar is in) when I put new strings on and after they stretch a bit it ends up down around 430 etc. sometimes aslow as 428 but then it starts getting to lax. Good times!


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## MetalHex (Apr 29, 2019)

I guess I dont understand it really. If I didnt know it was in 432hz, then I simply wouldn't know and not be aware of the difference still. Like how different would that sound in 440hz? Are there any direct comparison videos of the same song tuned at the different frequencies side by side?


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

BlackSG91 said:


> Here's over 10 hours of 432 Hz music to help you sleep. There are many videos like this plus others including 528 Hz. I've slept to this music and I find it refreshing. I challenge all the doubters & haters who call 432 Hz B.S. to listen for yourself this video and then you will be totally converted to this new musical religion known as 432 Hz. This video will transform you beyond belief. Your eyes & ears will be opened wide after this listening experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These are tricky cause a lot of them are just 440 recordings knocked down to 432, which is not at all the same. They still sound nice and have good vibes though!


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> I guess I dont understand it really. If I didnt know it was in 432hz, then I simply wouldn't know and not be aware of the difference still. Like how different would that sound in 440hz? Are there any direct comparison videos of the same song tuned at the different frequencies side by side?


I know of no actual REAL comparisons like you're talking about. That really is the only way, just using melodyne to knock it down ain't the same at all. As I was explaining about this stuff a few pages back. There are a couple videos that claim it, but I don't believe that they actually retuned everything and rerecorded it. It just sounds like a studio autotune or melodyne knocking it down.


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> I guess I dont understand it really. If I didnt know it was in 432hz, then I simply wouldn't know and not be aware of the difference still. Like how different would that sound in 440hz? Are there any direct comparison videos of the same song tuned at the different frequencies side by side?


Honestly the best thing is to just try it out for awhile in a bunch of situations and see if you like it better. Usually 440 stuff after doing 432 for so long starts sounding "honky" and annoying. While playing pay attention to the way the notes "bloom", palm mutes, brittleness on the attack of notes and chords(especially while strumming or playing fast), the actual clarity of the notes and notes within the chords etc. The overall ease and evenness of the note. There is less of certain note honking out and being a lot louder than all the others etc. The really minor details are what to pay attention to along with how it feels. The best way to do it is with 2 identical guitars (like 2 rg7620's or somthing like that) and do an a'b comparison. Remember the unique characters of each guitar and account for that as well, cause one guitar always sounds better etc. Well, I got go meet up with a little goth girl half my age now, so I gotta go.


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## MetalHex (Apr 29, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> Honestly the best thing is to just try it out for awhile in a bunch of situations and see if you like it better. Usually 440 stuff after doing 432 for so long starts sounding "honky" and annoying. While playing pay attention to the way the notes "bloom", palm mutes, brittleness on the attack of notes and chords(especially while strumming or playing fast), the actual clarity of the notes and notes within the chords etc. The overall ease and evenness of the note. There is less of certain note honking out and being a lot louder than all the others etc. The really minor details are what to pay attention to along with how it feels. The best way to do it is with 2 identical guitars (like 2 rg7620's or somthing like that) and do an a'b comparison. Remember the unique characters of each guitar and account for that as well, cause one guitar always sounds better etc. Well, I got go meet up with a little goth girl half my age now, so I gotta go.


I want in on that goth girl  joke


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> I want in on that goth girl  joke


Yeah, she bailed on me and we'll meet again sometime soon for sure, so I locked that down, but I did end up meeting a really cute short tattooed seniorita into metal and about 10 years younger than me. She rides a crotch rocket and has more energy than I can handle! I'm WAY in over my head now man, but hey, why not. Rock and Roll. You only live once! The 80's hasn't totally left us yet! I'm feeling like a freakin' rock star!


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## Jonathan20022 (Apr 29, 2019)

I'd rather hang out with another musician and not waste time explaining my slightly off tuning and why I do it. Then either pointlessly tuning up to match them or try convincing them to tune slightly down to match me.

I tune to whatever is the musical standard for the world, if most musicians are in E @ 440hz, so am I.


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## A-Branger (Apr 29, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> keep in mind that all measurements are basically arbitrary and based on relaly weird stuff, like time and the atom thing. Therefore, all scienctific measurements (E=MC2 etc) must all be bullshit too. The speed of sound. the weight of kgs and lbs,horse power), time, etc. yet, with this bullshit great things are and have happened. Practically everything was pseudoscience, loosely, before it was actual science. Just some shit that started in someones daydreaming brain. Likewise, 432 is arbitrary. All measurements are, that doesn't make them bullshit. An argument can also be made that 432 is not arbitrary, but I'm not going into that. They are just calibration points, but some are better in certain circumstances, like 432 for music, because it's better for singers, but almost nobody does it because a different standard is in place and instruments and everything have using it, but not for a long time at all. They basically made an almost irreversible mistake at the France thing where it was implemented, but because of mass production taking off and millions of instruments being made in such a short time, they never changed it back, although some of the greatest singers and musicians of our time pushed for it, and those are the real experts, not science, practitioners are. Remember that most people never tuned to 440 until less than a hundred years ago, and that's when all the masters existed long before that. They knew where the vocals needed to change between tenor and soprano voices and other voice shift registers. They never were tuned that high through all history really, until recently. Upon the new standard, which was highly opposed before it even happened, this caused much strain to vocalists ever since. It's really about this and the fact that it's more in tune with most human vocal chords etc. Just tune down and give your singer a break already! Then he can't have an excuse to bitch about why his voice isn't on point : )



you still have no idea how Hz work on musical notes......

let me put it very simple:

A4=440Hz........ right?... like lets start with this since its today's "standard"

do you know what frequency is B#4? ..... sorry to break it to you, but it is actually 415.30Hz...... yup

so all that mumbo jumbo you talk about singers and what not is for less than half of a semitone.

and all that talk about "thats when the MASTERS existed....." thats your pov. A lot of people would give the name of master to any other musician in the current times, depending on the style of music. Give it 100-200 years in the future and someone in today's time would be consider a master. Its jsut that classical music is not that popular anymore.



c7spheres said:


> That gets back to what I was saying though earlier that If you change it up on a tuner you will notice that 432 and 454 are about the same. Only the notes' name changes, but it is the same actual sound. The same goes for I think 405 or 408, which is the same as 432 also



to quote the internet


> How many Hertz is a semitone?
> Since an octave has a frequency ratio of 2, a half-step has a frequency ratio of 2^(1/12), or approximately 1.0595. For example, if the note A has a frequency of*440 Hz*, then one half-step up (A# or Bb) is *440**1.0595 = 466.2 Hz. One half-step down (G# or Ab) is *440*/1.0595 = 415.3 Hz



so..... 432x1.0595= 457.704..... so NOPE, 432 and 454 are NOT about the same. 454 in fact would be ABOUT THE SAME as A# (if we assume A=432Hz)

and Ab/B# would be 407.739HZ..... so again 408 is NOT the same as 432Hz

saying those are about the same and the "same sound", is like you saying C and C# are the same sound.... Both examples are a semi-tone away.... if not 440 and 432 are WAAAY closer to be the "same sound" than 432-454 and 432-408 



c7spheres said:


> The point I'm trying to get across is that they were almost always tuned lower to accommodate for the human voice and where the shift register change



and by tunning "lower" you mean less than half of a semi-tone.... yup, such difference, much lowness, many bass, wow!

and yup modern music does this BTW, have you noticed why old Metallica songs(for example) are tunned in E while newer stuff are in Eb?.... even that they play their old stuff in a semi-tone lower?...... yup, James register cant handle it anymore, so they tune lower to help his vocal range...... genius!!!



MetalHex said:


> I guess I dont understand it really. If I didnt know it was in 432hz, then I simply wouldn't know and not be aware of the difference still. Like how different would that sound in 440hz? Are there any direct comparison videos of the same song tuned at the different frequencies side by side?





please watch the end of the clip..... they arent the classical songs you are asking. But they are indeed different songs played side by side in 440 and in 432Hz.... go and see which you like the most... That would give you an idea on how far and "better" one sounds to the other



c7spheres said:


> These are tricky cause a lot of them are just 440 recordings knocked down to 432, *which is not at all the same*. They still sound nice and have good vibes though!



*facepalm*

it IS THE SAME..... again you have 0 none nada idea on how Hz works on a musical perspective dont you?

if I grab a guitar song recorded in 440Hz and I tunned down to 432 on an audio editing software, it would be the exactly the SAME if I have tunned the guitar to 432 and recorded the song like that

go grab your favourite song, drop it on an audio editing software, drop the pitch by one semi-tone.... Now grab your guitar and tune it down to Eb instead of E....... or even better, instead to tune down your guitar, change the tunning from A=440 to A=415.30Hz  (....it its the sameeeeeeeeeeeeeee......)

and now go and play your "downtuned guitar" along your "digitally altered un-natural fake" music....... OH whats that!??.... it IS actually in tune?!?!??!!?!..... who would have though that!!! :O :O :O :O :O ..... genius!!!!

*facepalm*


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> natural frequencies


What exactly make a frequency "natural" or "not natural"? I'm asking rhetorically, please don't actually try to answer that. Frequency is just a count over time. Nothing is natural or unnatural about that.



c7spheres said:


> I think pseudoscience, personally, is a great form of science.


No. That's not science at all. That's the whole point of calling it pseudoscience. If it was a valid form of science, it would not be pseudoscience.



c7spheres said:


> keep in mind that all measurements are basically arbitrary and based on relaly weird stuff, like time and the atom thing. Therefore, all scienctific measurements (E=MC2 etc) must all be bullshit too. The speed of sound. the weight of kgs and lbs,horse power), time, etc. yet, with this bullshit great things are and have happened.


Measurements are NOT arbitrary bs. Some of the things selected to be reference points might appear "arbitrary", but it's a stretch. The numbering systems chosen to represent the things we observe have nothing to do with the fact that the values they represent are real. The speed of light and sound are not just random made up numbers - they are observed to be constant in relation to a set reference point. You can change the reference points, you can change the numbering system, etc., but the actual value these things refer to does not change.

Another rhetorical question -> If the measurement of time is arbitrary bs, then how is a "8 times a second" magical, given that it depends on the "arbitrary" measurement of a second?

I see two scenarios:
Either you're trolling, or you legitimately don't understand how any of this works. 432 is just the music world's version of flat earth.  Oh man.... that works better than I expected, cause it's a little flat... hah.


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## Seabeast2000 (Apr 29, 2019)

We need a "432" pedal. I think that's what we are talking ourselves into here, of course.


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2019)

Current pitch shifting pedals could probably do that already I think.


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## Un1corn (Apr 29, 2019)

Oceans ate Alaska is drop B 432hz
I tuned to that once.
TBH, I didn't find any shit better than 440hz.


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## Seabeast2000 (Apr 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Current pitch shifting pedals could probably do that already I think.



Yes but marketing is everything.


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2019)

I'm very surprised nobody had made this already. Hm.....


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## Seabeast2000 (Apr 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I'm very surprised nobody had made this already. Hm.....


Anyone? SSO (Strictly Subjective Oscillations) brand "432" pedal. Made in exclusive 6-count batches at oddly spaced intervals. $350. Spotty contact info and rumor-driven builder facts included.


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 29, 2019)

Here are the open guitar string tunings in 432 Hz if anyone is interested.

E = 81 Hz
A = 108 Hz
D = 144 Hz
G = 192 Hz
B = 243 Hz
E = 324 Hz


And there is a free download for your smartphone that is a guitar tuner. It works excellent and is called Da Tuner. I've used it for years. You can set the Hz at 440, 432 or any other easily.








;>)/


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> you still have no idea how Hz work on musical notes......
> 
> let me put it very simple:
> 
> ...





I do know how Hz and how all this works. I think you may have misunderstood where I''m coming from here. You may have misunderstood or not read all the previous stuff I wrote. I agree with almost everything you're saying and you're actually proving my point. Which is great cause were on the same page mostly. My point this entire time has been, and I even wrote, that only the note name changes. You said "So all that mumbo jumbo you talk about singers and what not is for less than half of a semitone." Exactly, that's what I was trying to say earlier though I didn't use the word semitone, which I should have. I said it's not really about 432 earlier also. I said if you go to far the other direction while tuning it's goes back the other way. I said it's more about what pole(or polarity) your on which is like a positive/negative etc. It's that 100 cent range on your tuner, -0+ etc. I've been engineering for over 20 years, I know what I'm talking about. We're basically on the same page here. 

Also, regarding the singers, I guess technically it is my "opinion", as you say, that all those singers and composers were masters. Really? do you not think Bach and Mozart etc are masters? Is is an opinion, but who is arrogant enough to actually believe they weren't? Modern music, especially technical metal etc practically plagiarizes it. It owes almost everything to it. Also, I never said or implied that musicians of today aren't masters. By all means there are plenty with abilities at par and even beyond in some cases of the old greats. No doubt that many will be recognized 100 years down the road.

All the stuff you say about Metallica tuning down a half step. Exactly my point. That's why back before the standards shift "they", the singers, protested to not change. They didn't want to unnaturally strain their voices. I've said all this already. Please read previous posts before commenting. 

All the freq stuff you're tearing me apart on. I'm not throwing out exact perfect numbers here, that's why when someone says "I think" it doesn't necessarily mean to go off exact math when talking math. It's an arbitrary number to keep the conversation going. I'm not gonna sit here are work out math to make a basic point. All those numbers you're trying to out math me on are irrelevant cause I wasn't throwing out exact numbers. You obviously didn't read or understand what I was talking about. You're trying to make me out to be someone and something I'm not. I'm not sitting here saying 432hz is a magic number etc. You may have me confused with another poster.

You say: "if I grab a guitar song recorded in 440Hz and I tunned down to 432 on an audio editing software, it would be the exactly the SAME if I have tunned the guitar to 432 and recorded the song like that" This is not true. Only the notes are the same. Let me explain. The resonance and timbre of the guitar are still recorded permanently at 440hz. Their pitch changes but the vibe doesn't. The nuances and overtones resonate the guitar different and that can't be fixed, it can only be altered, in post production. The software can't and never will be able to do that. It's an artificial representation. An example would be that the harmonic overtones actually coming off the guitar while recorded are at 440hz, which are different harmonic overtones than would come off at 432hz. This resonates the guitar and room differently along with the interaction of everything else, causing different reflections etc. When using the software to downtune the recorded track to 432hz it only has the overtones of the 440hz recorded guitar to work with and it shifts those accordingly. The result is an 432hz note and track, but the overtones are not the same as would have come off an actual guitar recorded at 432hz. Those overtones were not recorded at all because the guitar was tuned to 440hz. This is why autotuned vocals and melodyned stuff can sound weird even when it's done properly. 

You said: "please watch the end of the clip..... they arent the classical songs you are asking." I never asked for anything from anyone on this forum to this moment. Ever. I've heard many of these clips, I understand the Phenomenon. It's not what I've been talking about all along. 

I closing: Were on the same page here. I made my best effort in previous posts here to make my positions clear and explained and backed up everything I was talking about. This is a loose conversation, not a technical debate. I don't like to feel like I'm being trolled or insulted, or misrepresented to be something I'm not, especially when I've previously made it clear already. Honestly, you come off a bit rude and like your attacking me, though I doubt you are. Were we to meet I'm sure you're a great person and we would be friends or acquaintances. I think we're on the same page here and you're just not getting where I'm coming from. I hope I cleared it up some and this doesn't turn into a pissing match, cause I'm doing that.


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> Those overtones were not recorded at all because the guitar was tuned to 440hz. This is why autotuned vocals and melodyned stuff can sound weird even when it's done properly.


You realize that shifting a recording is _also_ going to shift the overtones, right? That content doesn't just vanish. A subtle correction to a vocal (or anything else) is actually a lot less noticeable than I think a lot of people are willing to admit.



c7spheres said:


> I said it's more about what pole(or polarity) your on which is like a positive/negative etc.


You're going to have to elaborate before you're going to convince anyone of this. Neither people nor frequencies on their own have a "polarity". A signal has polarity, but a frequency on its own does not. If you take a signal at 440hz and slow it down to 432, this doesn't change the polarity of the signal.


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## Xaios (Apr 29, 2019)

Xaios said:


> I cackle with glee every time I see a 432Hz thread, because it's just so entertaining to read.


I was wrong, now it is starting to get old.


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## MFB (Apr 29, 2019)

Xaios said:


> I was wrong, now it is starting to get old.



This post bought and paid for by Big 440hz!


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> What exactly make a frequency "natural" or "not natural"? I'm asking rhetorically, please don't actually try to answer that. Frequency is just a count over time. Nothing is natural or unnatural about that.
> 
> 
> No. That's not science at all. That's the whole point of calling it pseudoscience. If it was a valid form of science, it would not be pseudoscience.
> ...






TedEH said:


> What exactly make a frequency "natural" or "not natural"? I'm asking rhetorically, please don't actually try to answer that. Frequency is just a count over time. Nothing is natural or unnatural about that.
> 
> 
> No. That's not science at all. That's the whole point of calling it pseudoscience. If it was a valid form of science, it would not be pseudoscience.
> ...




Thanks for the reply. I'll try to take it in order: You said: "No. That's not science at all. That's the whole point of calling it pseudoscience. If it was a valid form of science, it would not be pseudoscience." Yep, I know. I actually like pseudoscience. It's just different than the scientific method, which is great also. You should have said "No. That's not the scientific method at all." I was kinda being a smartass and serious at the same time. The point was that science is not the end all be all of what is right wrong correct etc. People treat science like a religion and worship it without even knowing it. There are many things which I personally know to be fact and not provable, which are considered pseudoscience. Many things were pseudoscience before they were actual science.

To the point of arbitrary numbers. I never called them bullshit, perse. That was a sacracstic reply to another member, who I didn't quote, earlier in the thread that used the word bullshit. Again, a bit of sarcasm. It goes on to explain and is explaining basically the same thing you do when you said "You can change the reference points, you can change the numbering system, etc., but the actual value these things refer to does not change." Please read the entire post before you reply. You're totally not understanding me here because of this. We're on the same page here. 

I am not trolling and I do in fact understand how this all works, better than most actually. Stop making me out to be one of these flat earth people just because I tune this way and like it. Go back and read the entire post if you want in on the conversation because it's obvious you didn't read all of it, or possibly understand everything I've said up to this point. I really don't want to spend any more time on it, honestly.


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 29, 2019)

;>)/


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> You realize that shifting a recording is _also_ going to shift the overtones, right? That content doesn't just vanish. A subtle correction to a vocal (or anything else) is actually a lot less noticeable than I think a lot of people are willing to admit.
> 
> 
> You're going to have to elaborate before you're going to convince anyone of this. Neither people nor frequencies on their own have a "polarity". A signal has polarity, but a frequency on its own does not. If you take a signal at 440hz and slow it down to 432, this doesn't change the polarity of the signal.




I do realize it shifts the overtones, yes. Please read my entire post, it covers my views and what I mean and has an example. In that my point is that all the nuances that come with overtones actually make the guitar and room different. Basically different parts of the guitar and room resonate at 440 than 432, so when you autotune it, you're tuning down the parts of the room and guitar that resonated at 440, not the ones that would have resonated at 432, because those were never recorded. 

Regarding polarity, That is a figurative explanation, not literal, for visualization purposes. I could have said something to like -50cents to the left, zero in teh middle, +50 to the right , like on a standard tuner. 

I'm tired, can we keep it positive,  ) please.


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## crankyrayhanky (Apr 29, 2019)

The Lizard Overlords will not allow escape from our 440 prison!
I seriously want to shift everything to 432...how can I do that with my sample sounds? All of that is in 440- would I need to pitch shift it all down 8 cents? I wonder if there is a fine tuner on any of these plugins....+ I need to explain this my bass player (yikes!)


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

MFB said:


> This post bought and paid for by Big 440hz!


Sorry BIG 440HZ , I don't smoke that brand. : )


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

crankyrayhanky said:


> The Lizard Overlords will not allow escape from our 440 prison!
> I seriously want to shift everything to 432...how can I do that with my sample sounds? All of that is in 440- would I need to pitch shift it all down 8 cents? I wonder if there is a fine tuner on any of these plugins....+ I need to explain this my bass player (yikes!)


You can use Autotune or Melodyne type programs to shift it down.


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## c7spheres (Apr 29, 2019)

BlackSG91 said:


> Here are the open guitar string tunings in 432 Hz if anyone is interested.
> 
> E = 81 Hz
> A = 108 Hz
> ...


I like that it shows the HZ.


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## Xaios (Apr 29, 2019)

MFB said:


> This post bought and paid for by Big 440hz!


Actually, they just mind controlled me into posting that by using a 440Hz square wave broadcast on a 432MHz carrier.


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## p0ke (Apr 30, 2019)

crankyrayhanky said:


> The Lizard Overlords will not allow escape from our 440 prison!
> I seriously want to shift everything to 432...how can I do that with my sample sounds? All of that is in 440- would I need to pitch shift it all down 8 cents? I wonder if there is a fine tuner on any of these plugins....+ I need to explain this my bass player (yikes!)



At least in Logic, a pitch shifter VST-plugin (or whatever Mac-plugins are called... ) that can change pitch by cents is included and a change that small probably won't even sound edited. I'm sure pretty much every DAW has similar functionality included these days. 

Also someone mentioned the tuner app - I'm using the official Boss TU-3 app on Android and that also has the option to change the reference pitch to whatever you want.

To get back to the topic, IMO it's just a matter of the grass being greener on the other side, same as changing tunings on a guitar but not as radical of a change. So having always played/listened in 440, 432 will make everything sound slightly different and possibly more interesting, but neither is "better" than the other. Just my


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## c7spheres (Apr 30, 2019)

p0ke said:


> At least in Logic, a pitch shifter VST-plugin (or whatever Mac-plugins are called... ) that can change pitch by cents is included and a change that small probably won't even sound edited. I'm sure pretty much every DAW has similar functionality included these days.
> 
> Also someone mentioned the tuner app - I'm using the official Boss TU-3 app on Android and that also has the option to change the reference pitch to whatever you want.
> 
> To get back to the topic, IMO it's just a matter of the grass being greener on the other side, same as changing tunings on a guitar but not as radical of a change. So having always played/listened in 440, 432 will make everything sound slightly different and possibly more interesting, but neither is "better" than the other. Just my



Absolutely! Neither is better. To, some one or the other just vibes better.


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## TedEH (Apr 30, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> You should have said "No. That's not the scientific method at all."


That's almost exactly what I said.



c7spheres said:


> The point was that science is not the end all be all of what is right wrong correct etc. People treat science like a religion and worship it without even knowing it.


Nobody here is treating science that way. Nobody here is treating science as if it dictates what is or is not true. It is a process to arrive at conclusions, that's it.



c7spheres said:


> Many things were pseudoscience before they were actual science.


To put it in your own words: No. That's not the scientific method at all.
Pseudoscience does not mean "not proven yet", it means the method is flawed and will not be able to prove anything. If it was ever pseudoscience, it is not now science.



c7spheres said:


> We're on the same page here.


We really are not.



c7spheres said:


> Regarding polarity, That is a figurative explanation, not literal, for visualization purposes. I could have said something to like -50cents to the left, zero in teh middle, +50 to the right , like on a standard tuner.


None of this makes any sense. You're just saying words that don't relate to anything. Adjusting the reference point on a tuner has nothing to do with polarity. I have zero idea what you're trying to say with the whole polarity thing.

Don't get me wrong, if you want to tune differently, then go for it. To each their own. If it "feels" better to you, then all the power to you. It's very likely that people like to hear things that fall outside of standard tuning because it's enough of a difference to be noticeable. But there's nothing that makes a particular frequency "better for music" or "resonates with people better" or "aligns with the universe better" or anything like that.


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## Willyjacksonjs22-7 (Apr 30, 2019)

Where do you guys want evidence from? CNN ,NASA, Bill Gates?

We were all created with energy. if a certain frequency brings a positive effect to you thats good no? Don't let the negative effect from others take that away from you.
People that don't believe want 432,528 etc..to act as magic or want evidence. The evidence is in your faith. If your using a negative effect against the frequencies than just drop it.

People have use these frequencies (432 and 528) in care homes, with their friends , their family and even tried on plants ( like my self) and notice positive effects. (No,
the resident is not gonna get up his/her wheelchair and start dancing like a 20 year old lol it's not magic.)
I believe that the subconscious is sleep
on some people and that's why they don't feel anything but the inside of them ( like the soul, their energy or whatever you wanna call it) is feeling something. It's not about hearing it's about feeling, believing/ faith.
The mind is really powerful. God bless


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 30, 2019)

Willyjacksonjs22-7 said:


> Where do you guys want evidence from? CNN ,NASA, Bill Gates?
> 
> We were all created with energy. if a certain frequency brings a positive effect to you thats good no? Don't let the negative effect from others take that away from you.
> People that don't believe want 432,528 etc..to act as magic or want evidence. The evidence is in your faith. If your using a negative effect against the frequencies than just drop it.
> ...



You said it very well...I couldn't agree any better.


;>)/


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## TedEH (Apr 30, 2019)

Willyjacksonjs22-7 said:


> Where do you guys want evidence from? CNN ,NASA, Bill Gates?


Anywhere at all would be a good start.



Willyjacksonjs22-7 said:


> We were all created with energy. [etc.]


Citation needed.


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## c7spheres (Apr 30, 2019)

TedEH said:


> That's almost exactly what I said.
> 
> 
> Nobody here is treating science that way. Nobody here is treating science as if it dictates what is or is not true. It is a process to arrive at conclusions, that's it.
> ...



Hi TedEh. I really don't want to argue or anything, but I promise you we are completely on teh same page. I think maybe I just type my comments/talk in a way that isn't tuning up with you (no pun intended). I read everything you said here, and I understand what your saying, and I swear were on the same page. I don't think you've read all the posts or something cause your making an argument against me and I'm on the same page as you. You're taking it personally and I'm not poking at you at all. I agree with you on all the points, actually, I'm just not expressing in a way that's making sense to you. I don't want to piss you off or anything man. I keep basically saying I'm not a 432hz worshiper or anything, I just like that tuning better and stuff. I'm not arguing for either side. They are both fine. I just express that having tuned this way for so long I really think it's the way it should be, or what is more natural. Good vibes man.


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## TedEH (Apr 30, 2019)

I'm not taking it personally at all. I'm not convinced we're on the same page though. I'm willing to leave it at that.


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## c7spheres (Apr 30, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I'm not taking it personally at all. I'm not convinced we're on the same page though. I'm willing to leave it at that.



Ok then. I still think were on the same page though because I agree with you on all the points you've made. Even if you don't get me, I understand what you're saying and agree with you. Thanks for not being a jerk. I look forward to many future encounters here on sso.


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## crankyrayhanky (Apr 30, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I'm not taking it personally at all. I'm not convinced we're on the same page though. I'm willing to leave it at that.



Right now you're both on the same page
Page 5


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## Xaios (Apr 30, 2019)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Right now you're both on the same page
> Page 5


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## wannabguitarist (Apr 30, 2019)

I'm sure this is already been discussed somewhere in the thread, but if you tune a guitar to A=432hz isn't it now just 8hz lower than a guitar in 440? Why does the reference point matter? How does making A 432 change how every other note "vibrates" with nature? Just tune your instrument slightly lower from standard 440 

Am I missing something?


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## c7spheres (Apr 30, 2019)

wannabguitarist said:


> I'm sure this is already been discussed somewhere in the thread, but if you tune a guitar to A=432hz isn't it now just 8hz lower than a guitar in 440? Why does the reference point matter? How does making A 432 change how every other note "vibrates" with nature? Just tune your instrument slightly lower from standard 440
> 
> Am I missing something?



Your not missing anything. It's roughly 31-32 cents flat on a standard 440hz tuner. The only way you'll know how it changes your world is to try it.


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## BlackSG91 (Apr 30, 2019)

Yes just try it...it won't hurt. You just have to tune your guitar slightly flat and it doesn't do any permanent damage to the guitar...guaranteed. Listen to c7spheres who has the answer.


;>)/


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## TedEH (May 1, 2019)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Page 5


I'm hoping that if I keep replying, we'll make it to page 432. I'm willing to also stop and chuckle at pages 69 and 420.

Edit:
I think that to make it to those pages in any reasonable amount of time... we would need _a higher frequency_ of posts.


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## A-Branger (May 1, 2019)

TedEH said:


> 432 is just the music world's version of flat earth.  Oh man.... that works better than I expected, cause it's a little flat... hah.


  



p0ke said:


> To get back to the topic, IMO it's just a matter of the grass being greener on the other side, same as changing tunings on a guitar but not as radical of a change. So having always played/listened in 440, 432 will make everything sound slightly different and possibly more interesting, but neither is "better" than the other. Just my


^^^^ THIS.....Its not "better", its just Different, and thats why you(me, we, all) like it. You do you (general term here), so if thats what you like awesome, but ^^^THIS



Willyjacksonjs22-7 said:


> We were all created with energy. if a certain frequency brings a positive effect to you thats good no? Don't let the negative effect from others take that away from you.
> People that don't believe want 432,528 etc..to act as magic or want evidence. The evidence is in your faith. If your using a negative effect against the frequencies than just drop it.
> 
> People have use these frequencies (432 and 528) in care homes, with their friends , their family and even tried on plants ( like my self) and notice positive effects. (No,
> ...



you didnt read the post I tagged you no?. 

Im not deniying 432Hz (or any other frequency) has some kind of "power". I know theres a vast knowledge of acoustics, vibrations, Hz, sound waves, thats been lost from ancient cultures and that with the right frequencies for the right object something could happen.

BUT

unless you are blasting your plant and the people in care homes with music played with one note (like you playing A constantly on a piano), then NONE of the other 11 notes in our modern music system would do anything

I say it before:
A = 432Hz ...... powerful frequency (cool)
A#= 457.7Hz...... random frequency that wont resonate with the subject


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## TedEH (May 1, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> Im not deniying 432Hz (or any other frequency) has some kind of "power".


I definitely am though.


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## DudeManBrother (May 1, 2019)

Seems like the most appropriate place to ask a couple straight forward questions:

I want a Chinese knock off Kiesel guitar built. How many strings should I get? What color looks best on quilted maple? Which tone woods resonate best for 432hz? Which BKP should I get? Or Fishman? EMG’s? Which works best with Axe FX? Or Kemper? Or preamp pedal? Or Invective? Or Invective mini? I want the best, but for $500 or less.


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## BlackSG91 (May 1, 2019)

Mahogany resonates @ 432 Hz very nicely.


;>)/


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## TedEH (May 1, 2019)

^ Because this thread wasn't complete without bringing tonewoods into it.


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## Seabeast2000 (May 1, 2019)

DudeManBrother said:


> Seems like the most appropriate place to ask a couple straight forward questions:
> 
> I want a Chinese knock off Kiesel guitar built. How many strings should I get? What color looks best on quilted maple? Which tone woods resonate best for 432hz? Which BKP should I get? Or Fishman? EMG’s? Which works best with Axe FX? Or Kemper? Or preamp pedal? Or Invective? Or Invective mini? I want the best, but for $500 or less.



Everything should be in hard sub-harmoics of 432Hz by physical dimension. Just make sure tonewoods, pedals, cables, etc are set up accordingly. I didn't have time to reduce this down to gear sizes. Good luck.


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## DudeManBrother (May 1, 2019)

The906 said:


> Everything should be in hard sub-harmoics of 432Hz by physical dimension. Just make sure tonewoods, pedals, cables, etc are set up accordingly. I didn't have time to reduce this down to gear sizes. Good luck.
> 
> View attachment 68961


Damn I forgot cables! It’s cool, I’ll make 5-6 threads asking about it over the next couple days.


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## BlackSG91 (May 2, 2019)

432 foot cables should suffice. No need for a wireless.


;>)/


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## c7spheres (May 4, 2019)

There's no point I'm making with this. It's just neat. I've always loved this stuff. It shows there are shapes in the universe made by sound. My mind is blown. Well, It was the first time i heard about it. : )


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## BlackSG91 (May 4, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> There's no point I'm making with this. It's just neat. I've always loved this stuff. It shows there are shapes in the universe made by sound. My mind is blown. Well, It was the first time i heard about it. : )




Thanks for posting...that was interesting. It reminds me of the Professor who conducted similar experiments.






;>)/


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## c7spheres (May 4, 2019)

Yeah, I see those before in a different video. Good stuff!


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## possumkiller (May 4, 2019)

So does 440hz make a pentagram or a swastika or something?


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## c7spheres (May 4, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> So does 440hz make a pentagram or a swastika or something?



No pentagrams or swastikas, It's interesting though that in the videos on youtube etc. it seems that they make almost the same exact shape as 432, but 440 doesn't seem to complete the shape entirely. 432 seems to make a real solid defined shape. I don't know if there's anything to that, but it is definitely interesting stuff.


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## ixlramp (Jul 12, 2019)

One of my favourite music theory youtubers, Adam Neely, who has a good understanding of tuning systems, has a good new video about the 432Hz nonsense, enjoy.
Also, watch out for 'The Ancient Solfeggio Frequencies' and '528Hz', those are similar nonsense.

".. it's played through bad frequencies ..."


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## BlackSG91 (Jul 12, 2019)

Long live 432 Hz for ever & ever...amen!


;>)/


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## bostjan (Jul 13, 2019)

ixlramp said:


> One of my favourite music theory youtubers, Adam Neely, who has a good understanding of tuning systems, has a good new video about the 432Hz nonsense, enjoy.
> Also, watch out for 'The Ancient Solfeggio Frequencies' and '528Hz', those are similar nonsense.
> 
> ".. it's played through bad frequencies ..."



Jeebus that sounds *out*!

Of course, as you probably guessed, the funky JI intervals Adam played sounded "nice" to me.

Dare I say that the more crystal healing chakras and good vibes the tuning mentioned, the more useless it sounded? Pseudoscience is arrogance.


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## Adieu (Jul 13, 2019)

What Hz you tune "to" ultimately DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER (as long as the other clowns you play with are on the same page)

For extra credit, instead of "tuning down" to B or C, you can call it 329.63hz or 349.23hz tuning instead and then call all the notes wrong names.


Same diff, really


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## Edika (Jul 13, 2019)

Interestingly enough I was speaking with my step sister that is an opera singer and she told me that the current trend for opera productions is having the A higher than 440Hz, towards the German Baroque school at 460-470 Hz and that's killing them. When I asked why she said that the belief is that it makes the sound more "sparkly" and "alive". It sure strains the singers though.


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## A-Branger (Jul 13, 2019)

well... of course it sounds more "sparkly"... they are tuning a bit over a semi-tone up, so something in between A# and B ... its like us saying music sounds "darker" if you detune the guitar to D



Adieu said:


> For extra credit, instead of "tuning down" to B or C, you can call it 329.63hz or 349.23hz tuning instead and then call all the notes wrong names.
> 
> 
> Same diff, really



yup yup yup.... Ie been trying to say this, but people seem to not understand for some reason


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## c7spheres (Jul 14, 2019)

- Not gonna argue about this stuff with people, but if you do the exact same thing that Neely did to 440 as he does to 432, it would sound just as bad, and it really doesn't sound bad anyways if you do it right. As he said himself, it's just very limiting doing what he did, which is play normal western stuff over a different temperament. If he played what types of stuff you should over it, it would sound nice. Look at instruments like sitars and such , with movable frets. You play very specific ragas over very specific tunings and temperaments. -----Essentially, Neely is playing the wrong raga for the tuning, similar to why few people use/play locrian stuff over normal 12-tet, because they haven't figured it out yet, but it sounds great when you do. Most people aren't talking about changing the 12-tet system when they talk about 432 tuning, they usually just mean tuning it down to 432.
- I just don't see the need for people to attack it, especially unprovoked. Neely has now attacked this 432 subject a couple times for no apparent reason other than to satisfy himself. Though I respect his right to an opinion, and know he is very knowledgeable, I know he has never worked with 432 exclusively for any extended period of time because of it. The frequency itself is not as important in regards to music, but it is important, just as 440 is too, when it comes to other specific meditative or healing goals or practices, plus the frequencies will vary too based on the individual person/subject, much like how not all wine glasses will shatter at the same frequencies or amplitudes, neither will they have benefits or heal at the same amplitudes or frequencies for people. 432 is just accepted by some as a more universal calibration point, more or less, and it is because of the human bodys' physical makeup. 432 is less stressful to the body than 440, just as it's less stressful to the body than 10k. This is why there are practitioners of the sound healing arts, and like all types of practitioners, there are a lot of quacks and scammers and novices out there, but then there are some that really know what's going on and legit, and in my experience, you don't get to seek them out. You meet them if you need to. Some practitioners of all fields are still learning, though sincere. Just like doctors, mechanics, nutritionists psychiatrists etc. 
- People get upset when I say pseudoscience is just another form of science, because it is associated with far fetched and outlandish things that can't be proven by the scientific method, often justifiably, but pseudoscience should not be discarded as a non legitimate form of science. The scientific method is just one way of doing things that was literally only recently invented in the last few hundred years. It is a specific term for a specific way of doing things. Take what people know as love, for instance. Everyone knows it exists and has benefits to human life, physically, emotionally, and mentally etc, but it can't be proven that love exists, it's a belief system, therefore it is pseudoscience. Just because people say they feel or are in love etc doesn't make it so. It is incompatible with the scientific method, just as a whole list of other things in our lives are, even though we know them to be true or exist. The same goes for things like Chinese medicine and "chi" energy etc. It's all pseudoscience right, but over half the world knows it's benefits. Now western medicine is finally "catching up" and finally proving some of it to be true, a few thousand years late to the party. Some modern medicine is also pseudoscience as well, but not seen that way. Why else should big pharma be allowed to release drugs that have a lower success rate than the placebo? Here's a big controversial one, sexual orientation determined at birth, or even as a learned behavior is pseudoscience. And an ironic one, The Scientific Method is the savior of the earth/humanity, is also pseudoscience, and in fact, that one could be scientifically proven to be incorrect given the current trends of environmental decline since the implementation of industiralisaztion using scientific technology. But then again, global warming is also pseudoscience. Oh, I know that one will get some backlash. Collected data put into a model doesn't equal fact. 

- Again, here we are at money, politics and power vs. beliefs, religion, and the greater good. Which is why I won't argue about this stuff at all anymore. Last time this thread was active, there was a lot of hate and obviously people never read half the posts that came previously to it, or didn't read them to a point of understanding. I myself kept saying over and over I'm not a 432 conspiracy pusher, but I do tune that way etc, and people were berating me like I was advocating and screaming it from the rooftops. It's impossible to have a conversation with people that will not listen/read and only want to troll to make themselves feel better superior somehow. When I start typing replies to threads that I will regret later, it's time to move on. I joined sso to help others and give my point of view and vise-versa. 432 is like a subject people shouldn't talk about like politics, religion, relationships etc. It only leads to bad things, mainly because of the immaturity of one party or the other. It's usually obvious who that is. 
- I'm getting out of this thread before it wastes any more of my time. Please don't reply to my comments. I'm just putting this out there. I'm sure some will agree with me and some will not. That's all it comes down to really. 

- Let's stop arguing and attacking.


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