# 8 string active or passive?



## ElectricEelChair (Apr 9, 2014)

Ok so I've seen the video, I really like the Pegasus/sentient pickup set the best. Been looking around and they're in either active or passive. My guitar already has passive stock pickups so it would be easier to do passives. My goal sound is maximum brutality, should I go with the actives?


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## Mike (Apr 9, 2014)

The pickups themselves are only passive not active. You are confused about the "Mount" offering. What active means in regards to the mount is that they will be a direct fit replacement for 7 and 8 string soapbar (i.e. EMG 707 or 808) sized pickups.

edit: and if your goal is maximum brutality, you should be going with the nazgul for the bridge not the pegasus.


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## Avogadr0 (Apr 9, 2014)

The nazguls are probably going to be more "brutal," but I imagine most of the aggressiveness of the pickup could be attributed to a difference in EQ, which I imagine an EQ pedal/mastering a recording could remedy. Personally, I think they both sounded pretty metal, and I think that clarity in metal is largely underrated.

Of course I'm going out on a limb here 

But yeah, the pickups are all passive pickups. The active mounts are for people like me who bought a guitar with active pickups (different size cavity for the pickups), but want to have the passive pickups without large gaps in the guitar that look awkward. You're going to want to go with either the uncovered set, or the passive mount set.


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## ElectricEelChair (Apr 9, 2014)

Thanks guys, yea I guess I got a little confused there. I like the Pegasus because it sounds a little more clear to me. although the nazgul is certainly a good pickup, im a little partial to the Pegasus.


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## ElectricEelChair (Apr 9, 2014)

Scratch that, just watched that video again... Don't know what I was thinking, the nazgul does seem to have a bit more edge to it. That'll probably be the one I go with.


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## Mike (Apr 9, 2014)

Yup I win. You owe me your car.


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## ElectricEelChair (Apr 9, 2014)

Shit... Not again


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## Nour Ayasso (Apr 9, 2014)

From what I hear 8 strings work better with actives because of the tone range and amount of strings.


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## jephjacques (Apr 9, 2014)

Untrue. A good passive pickup can handle anything an 8 string puts out.


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## Mike (Apr 9, 2014)

From what I know and have experienced 8 strings generally work better with passives. The majority of 8 string active offerings are too high output and lack the clarity needed for the extended low range to not sound like complete mud. I mostly blame this on the early ERG active designs being based off of bass pickups or 6/7 string versions with larger magnets/more windings to compensate for size difference. Instead, they should have just been redesigned from the ground up. Passives are generally lower in output compared to actives and do not suffer from the compression caused by a hot active system, plus most of them were created specifically for 7 and 8 strings.

With the exception of the EMG 57/66 set, Every passive I've tried in an 8 string has beaten actives in terms of clarity, dynamics, tone, and versatility.


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## Nour Ayasso (Apr 10, 2014)

huh, I've constantly been hearing about how actives are so much better for 8 strings even though their not as clear they'll pickup all the strings better. Guess I'll keep an eye out for an eight packing some passive pups.


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## facepalm66 (Apr 10, 2014)

Passives are the way to go. Although I do like the sound of EMG808x though and few other actives.
Still, passives provide that natural organic sound with no oversaturated sounds, plus is much more dynamic. Hence I can get almost perfectly clean tone on lead channel with only volume knob on my Deactivators.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Apr 10, 2014)

Mike said:


> From what I know and have experienced 8 strings generally work better with passives. The majority of 8 string active offerings are too high output and lack the clarity needed for the extended low range to not sound like complete mud. I mostly blame this on the early ERG active designs being based off of bass pickups or 6/7 string versions with larger magnets/more windings to compensate for size difference. Instead, they should have just been redesigned from the ground up. Passives are generally lower in output compared to actives and do not suffer from the compression caused by a hot active system, plus most of them were created specifically for 7 and 8 strings.
> 
> With the exception of the EMG 57/66 set, Every passive I've tried in an 8 string has beaten actives in terms of clarity, dynamics, tone, and versatility.





facepalm66 said:


> Passives are the way to go. Although I do like the sound of EMG808x though and few other actives.
> Still, passives provide that natural organic sound with no oversaturated sounds, plus is much more dynamic. Hence I can get almost perfectly clean tone on lead channel with only volume knob on my Deactivators.




No offense guys, and I'm not trying to pick a fight but I think you're overstating your opinions/preferences and disguising them as facts. I have nothing against passives per se but I prefer EMG products, specially the X-series, and 57/66. 

One thing I like about actives is their weak magnetic field which yield more sustain, and if the popularity of active pickups in the bass world is any indication, I think an ERG would benefit a lot from an active pickup. Talk about clarity of bass notes on a 6-string bass, plus active preamp circuits (even more popular in the bass world, e.g. Bartolini, Aguilar, Delano) have proven to be more powerful in tone shaping capabilities.

Although I'm still pondering my 1st 8-string purchase, I have a lot of experience w/ EMGs in my 7's and from the demos I heard/saw, I find 808x an awesome sounding pickup, just to give an example.


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 10, 2014)

I have an 8 with EMG 808 pickups and one with a passive Lundgren. I prefer the passive because it makes the instrument sound more "guitar-like" to my ears. It's more responsive to picking dynamics and plays nicer with gain pedals (of which I have many in my setup). 

I don't think the actives are bad necessarily, but they do break from what lots of people associate with traditional guitar sounds. Even after the 18v mod, the 808s still compress a bit too much for my liking. 

It all comes down to personal preference and what works for you, your technique and your rig.


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## DougL (Oct 27, 2014)

G'day all,
I'm debating going passive in my RG2228.
I recently bought an ibanez s8qm (my first 8 ) which I really liked. Then of course I had to upgrade almost immediately to an rg2228 to see what a prestige 8 string was like.
It came with seymour duncan blackouts and I put new ernie ball strings on it with a .72 on the f#.
To me it feels a lot nicer than the s8 but the F# had a really jangly/clicky sound to it 
on palm muted notes. I play mostly melodic death and some heavy rock at medium gain.
I'm using an ENGL ritchie blackmore and vintage 30 quad.
After putting up with it for a while I decided to get two EMG808x's which I installed yesterday with a new set of strings with a .74 on the F#.
Same crappy palm muted sound.
I am now considering getting a seymour duncan nazgul to see if passives solve my problem.
The s8qm sounds good but I can't go back after upgrading to the 2228.
Any ideas?

Cheers,
Doug


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## Corrosion (Oct 28, 2014)

Or it could be the fact your strings are still too small.


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## blaxquid (Oct 28, 2014)

If I still had my 8, I'd go passive for sure. Blackouts sounded better than the 808s (even 18v) but it wasn't a big difference - should've kept the 200$ and put it on my brewing gear...


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 28, 2014)

If the s8qm sounds good, why wouldn't you just use it? Hell, if even a $200 les paul knock off sounds better than a $5600 "real" les paul, you use the $200 knock off. 

On the other hand, it could be several different things not related to the pickups. String gauge, neck relief, and string action can all have the strings flopping around too much and creating a lot of clacky obnoxious fret sounds. (sort of like fret buzz, but not exactly the same.) A pickup swap might do nothing for you, and you might want to have the guitar set up good and proper first to rule that out.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 28, 2014)

The "active" label I believe just has to do with the shape of the pickups. If the guitar you're taking pickups from had actives then you'd want the active housing to completely fill the route.

As far as active vs passive... I have no idea. I have both. An RG2228 with EMG85/60 and an SIR28FD with DiMarzio DA8s... They both sound good to me. They both also sound incredibly different. That said I don't have any clarity issues on either one in any range of the instrument.


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## DougL (Oct 28, 2014)

Chokey Chicken said:


> If the s8qm sounds good, why wouldn't you just use it? Hell, if even a $200 les paul knock off sounds better than a $5600 "real" les paul, you use the $200 knock off.
> 
> On the other hand, it could be several different things not related to the pickups. String gauge, neck relief, and string action can all have the strings flopping around too much and creating a lot of clacky obnoxious fret sounds. (sort of like fret buzz, but not exactly the same.) A pickup swap might do nothing for you, and you might want to have the guitar set up good and proper first to rule that out.



"clacky" , Yep that about sums it up.
Yes , I should probably have just used the s8 when I liked it but " the grass is always greener " .
I'm no expert but I have followed the Ibanez instructions as far as setup is concerned, I do like my action low, very close to buzz and I do like lighter strings.
It has a .74 .65 .56 etc set on it now although the .65 B and .56 E feels a bit heavy to me. Unplugged it is no more "clacky" than any of my other guitars.
My ENGL does seem to accentuate the problem though.

Thanks Chokey,
Doug


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## DougL (Oct 28, 2014)

blaxquid said:


> If I still had my 8, I'd go passive for sure. Blackouts sounded better than the 808s (even 18v) but it wasn't a big difference - should've kept the 200$ and put it on my brewing gear...



I didn't notice a huge difference between the Blackouts and 808s either, But that little guitar slinging bastard in my head was telling me that everything would be fine if I just purchased another set of pickups.......he lied


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## DougL (Oct 28, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> The "active" label I believe just has to do with the shape of the pickups. If the guitar you're taking pickups from had actives then you'd want the active housing to completely fill the route.
> 
> As far as active vs passive... I have no idea. I have both. An RG2228 with EMG85/60 and an SIR28FD with DiMarzio DA8s... They both sound good to me. They both also sound incredibly different. That said I don't have any clarity issues on either one in any range of the instrument.



I've bought a seymour duncan Nazgul on ebay which is "active mount" .
I believe it's a passive pickup the same size as an active 8 string pickup.

Thanks for the replies, I'll let you know how it goes,
Doug


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## Poparad (Oct 29, 2014)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> One thing I like about actives is their weak magnetic field which yield more sustain, and if the popularity of active pickups in the bass world is any indication, I think an ERG would benefit a lot from an active pickup. Talk about clarity of bass notes on a 6-string bass, plus active preamp circuits (even more popular in the bass world, e.g. Bartolini, Aguilar, Delano) have proven to be more powerful in tone shaping capabilities.




Most basses do not have active pickups, but rather passive pickups with an active preamp on board. In fact, I can't even think of a single active bass pickup off the top of my head. All of the brands you listed make active preamps to go with passive pickups.


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## Nour Ayasso (Oct 29, 2014)

Poparad said:


> Most basses do not have active pickups, but rather passive pickups with an active preamp on board. In fact, I can't even think of a single active bass pickup off the top of my head. All of the brands you listed make active preamps to go with passive pickups.


Dingwalls come with actives or at least have the option for it. A lot of bassists use actives though. Victor Wooten uses all active EMGs as well as Evan Brewer. 
The problem though is most bassists aim for an overdriven tone to either cut through or just for more clarity. Honestly I don't think actives are that good for bass. I think Wooten benefits from it because he's usually solo as well as very rhythmic. But for a lot of bassist it's too overdriven imo. Like Nolly's last rig rundown, sooo overdriven and saturated sound imo


Konfyouzd said:


> I don't have any clarity issues on either one in any range of the instrument.


I agree that both can achieve clear hi gain tones, but actives are really not the best on cleans. Too harsh and easily overdriven, and then on top of that you have the whole "sterile" restricting sound.

Idk I'm really leaning towards passives after this whole thread.


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## Given To Fly (Oct 29, 2014)

ElectricEelChair said:


> Ok so I've seen the video, I really like the Pegasus/sentient pickup set the best. Been looking around and they're in either active or passive. My guitar already has passive stock pickups so it would be easier to do passives. My goal sound is maximum brutality, should I go with the actives?



Honestly, here is your answer: "My guitar already has passive stock pickups so it would be easier to do passives."


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Oct 30, 2014)

Poparad said:


> Most basses do not have active pickups, but rather passive pickups with an active preamp on board. In fact, I can't even think of a single active bass pickup off the top of my head. All of the brands you listed make active preamps to go with passive pickups.



What is an active pickup? It's a passive pickup + active preamp. It's just that EMG puts the preamp inside the pickup. SD has a kit that turns any passive setup to active by adding the active Blackout preamp. 

I'd say that basses w/ active preamps are much more versatile, and that's not an opinion. You may not like the tone of an active bass but it doesn't change the fact that it is more versatile.

*EDIT:* My recent RG8 now features EMG 57/66 and they are simply sublime!


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## DougL (Nov 3, 2014)

G'day again,
I've installed the seymour duncan Nazgul in my rg2228. The "clackiness" on the F# has all but gone and to my ears sounds better than the actives I had tried.
This vid on youtube is a great indication of the sound of different seymour duncan 8 string pups:

Seymour Duncan 8-String Pickups- Metal

Cheers,
Doug


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## DougL (Nov 11, 2014)

G'day again,
I got the gas again after listening to to nazgul for a while, I've put a SD distortion in the bridge of my rg2228.
It seems a lot more balanced than the nazgul , guess I should have checked the Seymour duncan tone charts where it clearly shows the very bright tone of the nazgul.

Here's my first recording with the rg2228 and SD distortion in the bridge.
Cheers,
Doug

https://soundcloud.com/downthemountain/idle-hands


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## sevenstringj (Nov 12, 2014)

DougL said:


> G'day again,
> I've installed the seymour duncan Nazgul in my rg2228. The "clackiness" on the F# has all but gone and to my ears sounds better than the actives I had tried.
> This vid on youtube is a great indication of the sound of different seymour duncan 8 string pups:
> 
> ...



What strings are you using now?

Btw, could the "clackiness" you heard with the actives have been the string banging against one of the pickups? Actives are supposed to be adjusted "as close as possible" to the strings, but that can be an issue on low-F#, particularly by the neck pickup. (I set them as close as possible to the strings, then back 'em off just enough to where the string doesn't touch the pickup when fretted high up.)


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## blaxquid (Nov 12, 2014)

DougL said:


> I didn't notice a huge difference between the Blackouts and 808s either, But that little guitar slinging bastard in my head was telling me that everything would be fine if I just purchased another set of pickups.......he lied


 Yep. Actually, in my many years of guitar playing, I've seen the biggest differences (in tone) in swapping bass pups/preamps. In guitars, while a lot of time there was a difference it was more in feel/attack than in tone. I've mostly felt underwhelmed by the $/tone ratio in guitars. I may simply be tone deaf but a raging, cranked dual rectifier kind of tend to mask the slight diff. in pickups' character. (Oh yea and I'm still shopping for replacement pups for my mahogany 7620 w/ New7s even though they sound perfectly fine.)


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## DougL (Nov 12, 2014)

sevenstringj said:


> What strings are you using now?
> 
> Btw, could the "clackiness" you heard with the actives have been the string banging against one of the pickups? Actives are supposed to be adjusted "as close as possible" to the strings, but that can be an issue on low-F#, particularly by the neck pickup. (I set them as close as possible to the strings, then back 'em off just enough to where the string doesn't touch the pickup when fretted high up.)



I'm pretty sure it wasn't , I adjusted everything I could think of and it was still there. Rolling the tone back reduced the "clack" which made me keep trying new pickups as I thought it was a pickup tone problem.
On the youtube vid , Seymour Duncan 8-String Pickups- Metal, you can hear a little bit of the clack on the blackouts on the f#.
I do a lot of chugging and galloping on the f# which made it stick out badly.
My engl Blackmore amp seemed to make it worse while my little 5W diy hi gain amp coped better.

I'm using a daddario .74 and an ernie ball 7 string set , so the sizes are:
74 56 46 36 26 17 13 10

I like the 74 f# but make go a tad lighter with the rest.
It's good play my guitar again without adjusting and testing every friggin' thing every time I touched it. 
My fingers were sore the day after I installed the SD distortion , I just couldn't put it down.

Cheers,
Doug


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## DougL (Nov 12, 2014)

blaxquid said:


> (Oh yea and I'm still shopping for replacement pups for my mahogany 7620 w/ New7s even though they sound perfectly fine.)



Yep , the grass is always greener. I can't seem to stop myself trying as much guitar/music gear as possible.

My car takes 3 tries to start but my 8 string sounds awesome


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## vick1000 (Nov 12, 2014)

Anyone that wants to reduce the "clack", solder a 3600pf (.0036uf) cap between the hot leg and ground on your volume pot. Or you could do like me, and solder a lead from a 3 pin PC fan, minus the middle pin, and use it as a cap socket to test how much cut you want from swapping various cap values.


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