# Neural DSP Archetype: Tim Henson



## Kaura (Jul 30, 2021)

Just dropped today. Has anyone tried it yet? I gave it a quick spin and it sounds pretty good.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 30, 2021)

We are talking about Jim Henson in the "*fm9???*" thread. Keep up. 
https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/fm9.348509/page-2#post-5301304


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## BMFan30 (Jul 30, 2021)




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## Gain_Junkie93 (Jul 30, 2021)

Who wanted this?


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## destroyerdogs (Jul 30, 2021)

Gain_Junkie93 said:


> Who wanted this?


A lot of people, I've seen it requested at least a thousand times. This plug-in will probably sell like crazy, the dude's got a ton of fans.That being said, Tim Henson's tone sucks and it seems unnecessary for him to have his own plug-in - from a monetary standpoint it makes total sense though.


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## laxu (Jul 30, 2021)

It has some cool features so I might try it sometime but so far the Soldano SLO plugin has been the only NeuralDSP plugin that I've been interested in buying. Still might get the SLO if it's on sale during Black Friday or Christmas.


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## Kaura (Jul 30, 2021)

Well, fuck you guys, lol.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 30, 2021)

Gain_Junkie93 said:


> Who wanted this?



From what I see online Tim to kids starting guitar nowadays is what Alexi Laiho, Paul Gilbert, Yngwie Etc was to us growing up. I’d be interested to know how well it sells, ignoring how Neural are saturating their own market.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> From what I see online Tim to kids starting guitar nowadays is what Alexi Laiho, Paul Gilbert, Yngwie Etc was to us growing up. I’d be interested to know how well it sells, ignoring how Neural are saturating their own market.



Really? I recall the dudes you mention having great tone.

Well... Maybe not Laiho


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## nonoknapp (Jul 30, 2021)

Worth it for the vocoder/multivoice section alone. Really beats setting up the sidechain to the midi track and tweaking a vocoder


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## AdamCook (Jul 30, 2021)

You wouldn’t believe how many kids are on Instagram and Reddit butchering this guy’s riffs when they can’t even play AC/DC. 
/old


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Those clean amps sound great. But the distortions sound... ew.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> But the distortions sound... ew.



I like when a product delivers exactly what advertises. Looks like it can really nail Tim Henson's tone


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I like when a product delivers exactly what advertises. Looks like it can really nail Tim Henson's tone


We back in Pod XT town baybeeee.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 30, 2021)

Not surprised to see this happen as this guy is definitely doing a LOT to get more and more kids into guitar/guitar music. 

Lots of comments in his YouTube videos are people saying they came from other videos/songs that were either remixes/collabs, somewhat related pop, or just recommended by the algo. So their fan base is pretty diverse/not just a bunch of metal kids.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

I really like some Polyphia stuff. They’ve gotten prett damn cringey (which is likely where most of the hate comes from, and understandably) but their skills are pretty fucking great.

I like the tones/songs on Muse and the ones on Renaissance are fine—fits the style imo. The Most Hated…mehhh. 

With all that said I really have no desire to buy this plugin. It’s about 4 years late to catch my interest. I will say I dig the plug-in’s aesthetics.


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## wakjob (Jul 30, 2021)

If it doesn't have a "Twink" preset...I'm out! 

P.S. I really dig Polyphia, and have been following them since they hit the scene.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 30, 2021)

1. Tim Henson is an excellent guitar player
2. The clean tones and effects on this probably sound great
3. It will sell like hot cakes because he’s a huge name now
4. Every fiber of my being wants to hate the motherfucker


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 31, 2021)

this shit seems pretty redundant with abasi, nolly and cory wong suites tbh. The only really novel thing is the multi pitch shifter, and that's not worth the money for me personally. 
I'm not a fan of Polyphia/their music (except for 40 oz, that song is catchy as all hell and fun to play) but the dudes can play. It's too bad they've leaned into that whole trap beat IG friendly wankery though.


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## StevenC (Jul 31, 2021)

Does Tim have bad tone, or does he have tone that doesn't work for the most brutal death metal?


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## Kaura (Jul 31, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Does Tim have bad tone, or does he have tone that doesn't work for the most brutal death metal?



I guess people just hate the "hot clean" tone they mostly use these days. Speaking of death metal, the plugin had a few presets that sounds perfect for death metal.


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## laxu (Jul 31, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> this shit seems pretty redundant with abasi, nolly and cory wong suites tbh. The only really novel thing is the multi pitch shifter, and that's not worth the money for me personally.



NeuralDSP plugins have a ton of overlap with each other. You could probably buy the Nolly plugin and get enough variety to cover the others. Most of what makes the plugins great is the stock presets. Some of those will give you pretty great tones right out of the box.

Last time when the plugins were on sale I tried them all and ended up buying none of them because I could get the same sounds out of the plugins I had from Line6 and ML Sound Lab. It just took more tweaking to get there than the NeuralDSP stuff. Would have bought the SLO though if it had been on sale because that plugin could do probably 95% of what I need.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 31, 2021)

laxu said:


> NeuralDSP plugins have a ton of overlap with each other. You could probably buy the Nolly plugin and get enough variety to cover the others. Most of what makes the plugins great is the stock presets. Some of those will give you pretty great tones right out of the box.
> 
> Last time when the plugins were on sale I tried them all and ended up buying none of them because I could get the same sounds out of the plugins I had from Line6 and ML Sound Lab. It just took more tweaking to get there than the NeuralDSP stuff. Would have bought the SLO though if it had been on sale because that plugin could do probably 95% of what I need.


Yeah I know, I already have nameless, omega and nolly. I use the nolly suite all the time for messing around with ambient stuff/pushed cleans.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 31, 2021)

I remember being really impressed by Polyphia, then the novelty kinda wore off. Haven’t followed them at all lately.


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## Metropolis (Jul 31, 2021)

laxu said:


> NeuralDSP plugins have a ton of overlap with each other. You could probably buy the Nolly plugin and get enough variety to cover the others. Most of what makes the plugins great is the stock presets. Some of those will give you pretty great tones right out of the box.
> 
> Last time when the plugins were on sale I tried them all and ended up buying none of them because I could get the same sounds out of the plugins I had from Line6 and ML Sound Lab. It just took more tweaking to get there than the NeuralDSP stuff. Would have bought the SLO though if it had been on sale because that plugin could do probably 95% of what I need.



It's more about nuances what you like, because there is quite a lot to choose in Neural DSP plugins. To me maybe the best all in one solution was the Archetype Gojira, but I had Nolly. And feelwise they're better than Helix LT I have. Helix doesn't really have that same "squish" in the low end.


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## destroyerdogs (Jul 31, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Does Tim have bad tone, or does he have tone that doesn't work for the most brutal death metal?


Nah, his tone's just plain bad.


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## StevenC (Jul 31, 2021)

destroyerdogs said:


> Nah, his tone's just plain bad.


Why?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2021)

Kaura said:


> I guess people just hate the "hot clean" tone they mostly use these days. Speaking of death metal, the plugin had a few presets that sounds perfect for death metal.



I actually dig the clean and pushed clean tones in the demos I heard. I grew up with the JC120 so I always dug that synthetic plastic clean. I REALLY dug the brief few seconds on Bea's video when he ran Amp 1 with the magnetic pickups.

The dirt sounds so ugly. Like it's extremely hard to explain. Not even in a "boo it's not heavy and distorted enough" kinda way.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 31, 2021)

Not understanding the hate for Tim’s tone. I always thought it sounded pretty good.


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## cmpxchg (Jul 31, 2021)

Been playing with the demo. I don't think it sounds bad at all, but I don't think it's a metal plugin either. The thing I notice with the leads is that as you turn up the gain, the attack disappears--it feels like a fusion plugin to me. If that sound isn't your thing, you're probably not going to like this.


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## Kaura (Jul 31, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I actually dig the clean and pushed clean tones in the demos I heard. I grew up with the JC120 so I always dug that synthetic plastic clean. I REALLY dug the brief few seconds on Bea's video when he ran Amp 1 with the magnetic pickups.
> 
> The dirt sounds so ugly. Like it's extremely hard to explain. Not even in a "boo it's not heavy and distorted enough" kinda way.



Kinda agree with you here. When I played around with the hi-gain tones a bit I noticed there's this weird quality to the tone. Kinda like there's a di-signal bleeding through.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 31, 2021)

I'm more interested in the LACS he's playing than the actual plugin.


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## Shoeless_jose (Aug 3, 2021)

Plugin can't be worse than those inlays.


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## Ben Pinkus (Aug 3, 2021)

The multi voice stuff in this seems to be the main selling point imo


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## Emperoff (Aug 3, 2021)

Ben Pinkus said:


> The multi voice stuff in this seems to be the main selling point imo



Kinda what they did with the Gojira Archetype and the Whammy. At least that one had a great sounding amp.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 3, 2021)

It's not in their interest but I hope Neural come out with a hub plug-in with the option to buy specific amps or effects sections from the archetypes.


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## bulb (Aug 3, 2021)

some of you really want those kids to get off your damn lawn


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## profwoot (Aug 3, 2021)

Yeah I dig polyphia's tone. So much of high-gain riffing is possible because of the compression that happens at high gain. So what if you just go straight to the compression and bypass most of the gain? Polyphia is what happens. I don't love all their stuff but the tone has never been the issue for me.

Maybe "if it's too loud you're too old" will turn into "if there's not enough gain you're too old" for the kids.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 3, 2021)

Metropolis said:


> And feelwise they're better than Helix LT I have. Helix doesn't really have that same "squish" in the low end.


 turn up the master and sag on whatever amp model you're using.


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## Metropolis (Aug 3, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> turn up the master and sag on whatever amp model you're using.



Turning them up leads to more compression which I don't want. Some people even keep the master at 1 with some amps, but I keep it mostly at 3-4. In my case it's also input level, started messing with input pad of the Helix and it sounds more clean when on. Somehow I have always wanted to keep it off, but from now it keeps on.


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## sakeido (Aug 3, 2021)

Kaura said:


> I guess people just hate the "hot clean" tone they mostly use these days. Speaking of death metal, the plugin had a few presets that sounds perfect for death metal.


There's a lot of "hot clean" sounds I like. Hell the Cory Wong archetype has a bunch of em. Polyphia just has terrible tone.

They could have just released this as "Archetype Misconfigured Axe FX" and pocketed all the money instead of having to pay fees to Tim but I guess nobody would buy it


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Aug 3, 2021)

The only thing I have to add is that I find these guys really full of themselves. The spank pop style of guitar I just don’t care for. I like Chon, but Polyphia aren’t my cupa tea.


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## Taylord (Aug 3, 2021)

Archetype: Bonamassa


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 3, 2021)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> The only thing I have to add is that I find these guys really full of themselves. The spank pop style of guitar I just don’t care for. I like Chon, but Polyphia aren’t my cupa tea.



I know it's supposedly an act, but goddamn it's an annoying one. Bands like Steel Panther can get away with it because they're stupid over the top with it.


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## BMFan30 (Aug 3, 2021)

The best 2 models for metal from Nueral that I like and think are worth your money are Nameless and Gojira. I've demoed several others and they were great too but not the way I liked these 2.

Nameless was the first one I found that I liked most and have the most presets made for. But then I found Gojira and realized it was just more versatile and so I get the most use out of it since.


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## Emperoff (Aug 3, 2021)

sakeido said:


> They could have just released this as "Archetype Misconfigured Axe FX" and pocketed all the money instead of having to pay fees to Tim but I guess nobody would buy it


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 3, 2021)

I’m still amazed by the way that the Polyphia guys do what they do on guitar. I don’t want to be able to do it because I don’t like the way it sounds , but I recognise the technical ability and hours of practice it must have taken.

But someone must like it because they keep getting more endorsements! Good on them I say.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 3, 2021)

I don't really know anything about this dude aside from that one song GOAT, which I don't like, but the stuff he was playing in that demo video sounded pretty cool to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cool synth stuff, really punchy compressed clean tone so he can do all the percussive stuff. When it comes to the beats they're playing over, all of that is more suitable than a 5150 or whatever else people expect guitar tone to be lol.


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## Jeff (Aug 3, 2021)

This plugin sounds like ass, and the kid is an arrogant douchebag. Double-pass for me.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 3, 2021)

Not sure about the arrogant douchebag thing. I talked to Tim for about 5 minutes at one of their shows and he was kinda quiet and very gracious. I suspect the cringiness is just the act. It’s kinda annoying from my own consumer standpoint but I don’t think it reflects who he is as a person. I could be wrong…it was only 5 minutes. /shrug


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 3, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Not sure about the arrogant douchebag thing. I talked to Tim for about 5 minutes at one of their shows and he was kinda quiet and very gracious. I suspect the cringiness is just the act. It’s kinda annoying from my own consumer standpoint but I don’t think it reflects who he is as a person. I could be wrong…it was only 5 minutes. /shrug



I never get why this band adopted the image/persona. I never see anyone talk about it (except about how annoying it is). Everyone talks about "HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THE SHIT THEY CAN DO ON GUITAR"


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 4, 2021)

Don’t get me wrong, having watched the video and seen photos on product pages, and probably being old enough to be his Father, I think he looks weird with his funny clothes and throat and hand tattoos, but then Steve Vai had some weird outfits in the 80s DLR videos.

I saw a pickup demo on YouTube where he and the other chap were insulting each others’ guitar or something, and yeah they looked like a couple of muppets in that clip, is that the sort of aspect that gives the guy a bad reputation? Or does he like to kick cats and he never calls his Mom now he’s moved out of her basement ?


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## Wolfhorsky (Aug 4, 2021)

I liked Polyphia at their very beginings. Then they become boring and schematic with that noodling played on both guitars at the same time in 3rds or 6ses. And then they switched to that glitchy, anoying cleanish chucka chucka music. To me it is like a shitty version of rap music but played on the guitars. And their image/outlook become cringy AF for me with that excessive gold, furs, tatoos, make-up, non binary stuff. I read somewhere that Tim doesn’t listen to „guitar music” and hates it. All he listens to is rap. And it kinda shows.


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## WarMachine (Aug 4, 2021)

Who the fuck is Tim Henson? He looks like Willie's son from Duck Dynasty.


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## Emperoff (Aug 4, 2021)

For anyone that likes (or not) this person, you should really check Ichika Nito. It's basically the polar opposite within a similar playing style (great musicality, good tone, understated/elegant persona, etc).


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## Jeff (Aug 4, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Not sure about the arrogant douchebag thing. I talked to Tim for about 5 minutes at one of their shows and he was kinda quiet and very gracious. I suspect the cringiness is just the act. It’s kinda annoying from my own consumer standpoint but I don’t think it reflects who he is as a person. I could be wrong…it was only 5 minutes. /shrug



To be blunt, I don't care what he's like when you sit down with him privately. His public persona, i.e. in videos and articles, is that of an arrogant douchebag. If he's really not that way in person, and it's just an act, that's not really my problem.


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## narad (Aug 4, 2021)

Jeff said:


> To be blunt, I don't care what he's like when you sit down with him privately. His public persona, i.e. in videos and articles, is that of an arrogant douchebag. If he's really not that way in person, and it's just an act, that's not really my problem.



I haven't followed him enough to see this douchebaggery -- I just watch the music videos -- so in that sense I hate reinforce the idea. But a huge block of his fans are like 13-16yr old instagram kids... kind a sucks if that's his public persona and that's what those kids aspire to. And also to this tone


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## Jeff (Aug 4, 2021)

narad said:


> I haven't followed him enough to see this douchebaggery -- I just watch the music videos -- so in that sense I hate reinforce the idea. But a huge block of his fans are like 13-16yr old instagram kids... kind a sucks if that's his public persona and that's what those kids aspire to. And also to this tone



I can't stand their tone either, but that's completely subjective. I've watched various videos, interviews, Rig Rundowns, etc. It's just the way the kid comes across. If they're doing that on purpose, whatever floats their boat I guess.


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## AboutBlank (Aug 4, 2021)

If it were now a few years earlier I would love to hear some if the insults and pettiness for the youth about Slash and colleagues…


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## profwoot (Aug 4, 2021)

Since I defended their music/tone earlier, I also have found them to be incorrigible dipshits in the few interviews I've seen. Well except for Tim's video about how he wrote GOAT. That was completely transparent and humble in a way reminiscent of Misha's production videos. So maybe it is an act (which would honestly make it worse for me).


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## Matt08642 (Aug 4, 2021)

How dare people wear anything except black t shirts, who would ever dress weird and expect to get taken seriously?!?!?!!??!


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 4, 2021)

Paul Gilbert looks so incredibly unhappy in that pic...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 4, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> How dare people wear anything except black t shirts, who would ever dress weird and expect to get taken seriously?!?!?!!??!
> 
> View attachment 96312
> View attachment 96314
> ...



They're actually likeable in interviews, though.


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## StevenC (Aug 4, 2021)

Which interviews are the ones Tim doesn't come across well?


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## BMFan30 (Aug 4, 2021)

No matter how many interviews I watch of him being an Egyptian god among plebs, it still isn't going to make me like basically anything about him.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 4, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Which interviews are the ones Tim doesn't come across well?



No proof, only outrage! HOW DARE HE NOT LIKE GUITAR MUSIC


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## c7spheres (Aug 4, 2021)

Kyle Jordan said:


> Paul Gilbert looks so incredibly unhappy in that pic...



Satch looks like Tootsie in that pict


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## c7spheres (Aug 4, 2021)

- Maybe Tim is a struggling alcoholic that needs help. Dude seems to drink a lot. I see a person that's struggling internally. On the surface though he seems nice enough. I don't know of any examples of him being douchey. I don't really look for Polyphia or Tim Henson stuff though. 

- I do agree with him when he says so much of guitar based music is bullshit and needs to be more musical. 
- I will always hate the other dudes pants and Yvette making relationship shit public though. Keep your shit in your pants.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 4, 2021)

Ooof. Just listened to Polyphia because of this thread. Terrible band. And this muppet, Tim Henson, well, he sucks too.

“I see it being less guitar-centred, and more musical. Because I hope that guitar music dies. I want it to die a painful death, because so much of it is just bullshit. And I feel like people should focus more on the music itself and use the guitar as a tool to make music versus, like, ‘I’m going to play guitar music,’ you know what I mean? Because so much of it is just not good.”

“All I listen to is rap.”

https://www.musicradar.com/news/pol...r-music-dies-i-want-it-to-die-a-painful-death


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## BMFan30 (Aug 4, 2021)

It's the final form of nu metal called rap without rappers. Sounds exactly like the Neural demo.



ArtDecade said:


> “I see it being less guitar-centred, and more musical. Because I hope that guitar music dies. I want it to die a painful death, because so much of it is just bullshit. And I feel like people should focus more on the music itself and use the guitar as a tool to make music versus, like, ‘I’m going to play guitar music,’ you know what I mean? Because so much of it is just not good.”
> 
> “All I listen to is rap.”


Uses guitar to kill guitar music, Wooooo that's a tall order. He's the anti axe slayer. But definitely uses axe body spray. I want sweat to die a painful death.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 4, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Ooof. Just listened to Polyphia because of this thread. Terrible band. And this muppet, Tim Henson, well, he sucks too.
> 
> “I see it being less guitar-centred, and more musical. Because I hope that guitar music dies. I want it to die a painful death, because so much of it is just bullshit. And I feel like people should focus more on the music itself and use the guitar as a tool to make music versus, like, ‘I’m going to play guitar music,’ you know what I mean? Because so much of it is just not good.”
> 
> ...



They all talk about great players in that interview and how they like them (Vai, etc), how the one dude listens/has always listened to metal, and they've been invited to play with those very people. I agree with the core of what he's saying, I'd rather listen to a Polyphia album driving around despite not really "liking" that genre sooner than I'd sit through one single Yngwie or Rusty Cooley song in almost any context, and I love shredding.

"Guitar music" in this sense feels like he's talking about the countless no name 3 note per string/sweep pick displays of technical proficiency. This whole thing seems to be an "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation - People who probably feel Yngwie iSnT mUsIcAL!! until someone who they dislike shares that viewpoint, then all of a sudden they're the enemy 

He even clarifies what was said before:

Tim: “I think the _boringness_ should die a painful death. As far as effects and stuff go, I use a lot of vocal effects, like the vocoder that’s on Rich Kids, that sounds nothing like a guitar. And as far as the future of it goes, me and Scott have been working really hard to bring guitar to mainstream music."



BMFan30 said:


> Sounds exactly like the Neural demo.



Isn't that a good thing?


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## ArtDecade (Aug 4, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I'd rather listen to a Polyphia album driving around despite not really "liking" that genre sooner than I'd sit through one single Yngwie or Rusty Cooley song in almost any context, and I love shredding.


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## MrWulf (Aug 4, 2021)

That single interview is gonna haunt Polyphia and Tim for years to come due to how douchy and hypocritical he comes across. Lets not pretend that Polyphia didnt sparked their own little subgenre and a generation of players (neo soul and instagram guitars), that interestingly paralleled to how Yngwie also sparked a generation of shredders after him. And both are obnoxious in a way.

I like some of the concepts and ideas of their genres. But Polyphia is not my cup of tea. And the obnoxious instagram guitar cultures are their fault.


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## profwoot (Aug 4, 2021)

I think Tim is right on with that quote. How often in metal do you hear about cool riffs vs cool arrangements/compositions? As if riffs are the fundamental particles of which songs are made. I mean, I love a good riff, but if the song sucks no riff can save it.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 4, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> - I will always hate the other dudes pants and Yvette making relationship shit public though. Keep your shit in your pants.



Yvette didn’t make that shit public though.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 4, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> - I will always hate the other dudes pants and Yvette making relationship shit public though. Keep your shit in your pants.





Deadpool_25 said:


> Yvette didn’t make that shit public though.



I have no idea what you are talking about but I have a feeling this thread could get all Degrassi High in an explanation.


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## BMFan30 (Aug 4, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> Isn't that a good thing?


Not if I didn't like the sound coming from the demo.


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## c7spheres (Aug 4, 2021)

asdf


Deadpool_25 said:


> Yvette didn’t make that shit public though.



I must have gotten confused. My bad and sorry about that. I can't remember now. I'll have to go read everything again.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 4, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about but I have a feeling this thread could get all Degrassi High in an explanation.



Can I make the situation even more awkward by saying that shit hit the fan in a djent shitpost group on Facebook?


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## ArtDecade (Aug 4, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Can I make the situation even more awkward by saying that shit hit the fan in a djent shitpost group on Facebook?



In that case, my deepest apologies to everyone involved - I meant to say Degrassi _Junior_ High. #bulb


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 4, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> asdf
> 
> 
> I must have gotten confused. My bad and sorry about that. I can't remember now. I'll have to go read everything again.



Man…that shit was a mess. I don’t recommend re-reading any of it lol




HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Can I make the situation even more awkward by saying that shit hit the fan in a djent shitpost group on Facebook?



Yeah it did. But let’s just leave well enough alone and let these folks get back to hating on Tim Henson.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 4, 2021)

Yeah let’s not forget that rock stars in the 80s wore women’s clothes, women’s jewellery, used women’s makeup/hair products and tried to emulate women in almost every way which was met with a lot of hostility back then. What’s weird or scary to you now will be normal in years to come.



MrWulf said:


> Lets not pretend that Polyphia didnt sparked their own little subgenre and a generation of players (neo soul and instagram guitars



I’ve always wondered where this style came from. Intervals were also doing it, then Protest the Hero were writing Interval style leads and riffs. Then tons of bands were doing it along with countless Instagram/YouTube players. It came out of nowhere but unlike djent, melodeath etc I’m not sure where it even began.


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## BMFan30 (Aug 4, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Yeah let’s not forget that rock stars in the 80s wore women’s clothes, women’s jewellery, used women’s makeup/hair products and tried to emulate women in almost every way which was met with a lot of hostility back then.


Crossing dressing then doesn't make cross dressing now any cooler.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 4, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> That single interview is gonna haunt Polyphia and Tim for years to come due to how douchy and hypocritical he comes across. Lets not pretend that Polyphia didnt sparked their own little subgenre and a generation of players (neo soul and instagram guitars), that interestingly paralleled to how Yngwie also sparked a generation of shredders after him. And both are obnoxious in a way.
> 
> I like some of the concepts and ideas of their genres. But Polyphia is not my cup of tea. And the obnoxious instagram guitar cultures are their fault.


uhhh nah, there were guys posting neo soul/ shreddy riffs on instagram long before tim was blowing up on his personal IG. 


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I know it's supposedly an act, but goddamn it's an annoying one. Bands like Steel Panther can get away with it because they're stupid over the top with it.


it helps that the guys in steel panther (satchel especially) are consistently hilarious. 
Tim and scotty are just too deadpan. Doesn't help that their dimarzio interview made them come off as unlikeable arrogant douchebags.


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## MrWulf (Aug 4, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> uhhh nah, there were guys posting neo soul/ shreddy riffs on instagram long before tim was blowing up on his personal IG.
> 
> it helps that the guys in steel panther (satchel especially) are consistently hilarious.
> Tim and scotty are just too deadpan. Doesn't help that their dimarzio interview made them come off as unlikeable arrogant douchebags.



They popularized it is what i meant, not neccessarily innovated it


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 4, 2021)

profwoot said:


> I think Tim is right on with that quote. How often in metal do you hear about cool riffs vs cool arrangements/compositions? As if riffs are the fundamental particles of which songs are made. I mean, I love a good riff, but if the song sucks no riff can save it.



Not like Polyphia themselves arent guilty of guitar acrobatic over songswriting or anything...


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 4, 2021)

If all that douchebaggery is really "an act", I gotta say those dudes are outstanding actors


----------



## BMFan30 (Aug 4, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Not like Polyphia themselves arent guilty of guitar acrobatic over songswriting or anything...


Great point, they should then show interesting arrangements that aren't trying to make drill trap music but with guitars while wearing Princes clothes.


----------



## budda (Aug 4, 2021)

This thread needs more dirty nil. But im on my phone, so someone link "fuck art".


----------



## AwakenTheSkies (Aug 4, 2021)

That's funny, I'm still learning from Rusty Cooley, John Petrucci and Tremonti's DVD instructionals and always looking for new ones. But of the new generation who has made an instructional? Tosin Abasi, that's the only one I know..


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 4, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> That's funny, I'm still learning from Rusty Cooley, John Petrucci and Tremonti's DVD instructionals and always looking for new ones. But of the new generation who has made an instructional? Tosin Abasi, that's the only one I know..



A bunch of them but it’s mostly streaming now. Rick Graham, Chris Letchford, Jack Gardiner, Rabea, Olly Steele, John Browne, etc


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0 (Aug 5, 2021)

Man I’m feeling old as hell. I hadn’t heard of Tim Henson at all til this thread. I’m actually pretty jazzed to check this out, mainly for the clean tones and ambient possibilities. This is kinda unrelated but I’m having an issue. I have other neural plugins that work fine. I just got the trial of this and the dark glass bass amp and neither are putting out sound using the exact same settings the Gojira plugin is working with. Using a brand new 13” M1 MacBook Pro. Archetype Gojira will work fine upon opening, both of these make no sound at all.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Aug 5, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> That's funny, I'm still learning from Rusty Cooley, John Petrucci and Tremonti's DVD instructionals and always looking for new ones. But of the new generation who has made an instructional? Tosin Abasi, that's the only one I know..



There hasn’t been much physical media in the last 10 years. Young Guitar who were responsible for so many of those instructional DVDs haven’t done any special magazines or DVDs in 10 years from what I can see. Rockhouse were doing great things but just stopped, they had a big problem with piracy and YouTube uploads of their DVDs, they had plans to comeback and I bet there would have been Misha, Tim etc lessons. Guitar World did a few DVD issues like the Loomis one but AFAIK stopped shortly after. Guitar Messenger was another one that dug new players like Per and Tosin but they have been really quiet since then. 

With YouTube, skype teaching, dedicated lesson sites and endless guitar resources online there is no need for these products anymore. Piracy killed the physical dvd and let’s be honest, many of those players were terrible teachers.


----------



## Wolfhorsky (Aug 5, 2021)

guitar_player4_2_0 said:


> Man I’m feeling old as hell. I hadn’t heard of Tim Henson at all til this thread. I’m actually pretty jazzed to check this out, mainly for the clean tones and ambient possibilities. This is kinda unrelated but I’m having an issue. I have other neural plugins that work fine. I just got the trial of this and the dark glass bass amp and neither are putting out sound using the exact same settings the Gojira plugin is working with. Using a brand new 13” M1 MacBook Pro. Archetype Gojira will work fine upon opening, both of these make no sound at all.


You have to go to the system settings and allow these apps to have microphone access.


----------



## vertibration (Aug 5, 2021)

I think Tim Henson is right about what he said about guitar music, however, he does the same thing sooooo.........

Its why I like the Deftones so much. Even though Steph doesnt shred, they write damn good songs most of the time. None of these "guitar bands" can write good songs, so Tim needs to maybe take a step back a little bit


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

vertibration said:


> I think Tim Henson is right about what he said about guitar music, however, he does the same thing sooooo.........
> 
> Its why I like the Deftones so much. Even though Steph doesnt shred, they write damn good songs most of the time. None of these "guitar bands" can write good songs, so Tim needs to maybe take a step back a little bit



Plenty of guitar bands write good music. And, I would lump Tim in with Deftones under the category of "Music that doesn't interest me".


----------



## StevenC (Aug 5, 2021)

This thread is all old man yells at clouds plus a bunch of homophobia that shouldn't be present in 2021.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 5, 2021)

People posting in here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/the-dirty-angry-crusty-thread.198241/


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 5, 2021)

StevenC said:


> This thread is all old man yells at clouds plus a bunch of homophobia that shouldn't be present in 2021.



Were those homophobic comments moderated? I can't seem to find any on this thread.

EDIT: I guess you mean the cross-dressing comments. I couldn't care less about that. Pretty much every artist dresses weird anyway.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 5, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> And, I would lump Tim in with Deftones


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


>


----------



## StevenC (Aug 5, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Were those homophobic comments moderated? I can't seem to find any on this thread.
> 
> EDIT: I guess you mean the cross-dressing comments. I couldn't care less about that. Pretty much every artist dresses weird anyway.


These pair of pretty disgusting comments. And there's some more subtle stuff. 



Wolfhorsky said:


> I liked Polyphia at their very beginings. Then they become boring and schematic with that noodling played on both guitars at the same time in 3rds or 6ses. And then they switched to that glitchy, anoying cleanish chucka chucka music. To me it is like a shitty version of rap music but played on the guitars. And their image/outlook become cringy AF for me with that excessive gold, furs, tatoos, make-up, non binary stuff. I read somewhere that Tim doesn’t listen to „guitar music” and hates it. All he listens to is rap. And it kinda shows.





BMFan30 said:


> Crossing dressing then doesn't make cross dressing now any cooler.


----------



## Gain_Junkie93 (Aug 5, 2021)

Pretty disgusting is a bit pearl clutching but I get it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 5, 2021)

There's nothing wrong with cross dressing tbh. If you got a problem with it then that's your problem


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 5, 2021)

Everything is "phobic" and "____ist" now.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's nothing wrong with cross dressing tbh. If you got a problem with it then that's your problem



My biggest problem with cross dressing is finding comfortable shoes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 5, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> My biggest problem with cross dressing is finding comfortable shoes.



It's hard to find good heels tbh


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 5, 2021)

It’s funny how we sometimes hate what’s “new” and upcoming/popular. 

The thrashers hated the hair metal guys, the hair metal guys hated the grundge dudes, the grundge dudes hated the nu metal peeps, the new metal peeps hated the emo kids, and the emo kids…well, I don’t know what happened to them. Lol. But djent seemed to be the next big thing after that.

Ironically, a lot of modern metal music is a fusion of all those things. It’s like we don’t even know what direction to go in anymore.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 5, 2021)

Apparently a lot of people puts "not liking something" and "hating" in the same bag.

You can't like everything. But that doesn't mean you have to hate to death those things.

Hate is a waste of energy. But so is listening to something you don't like so you are not deemed a dinosaur by the internet.

I like plenty of modern bands and artists (I even linked a video of Ichika Nito from the same "scene"). I just don't like douchebag "acts".


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Aug 5, 2021)

StevenC said:


> These pair of pretty disgusting comments. And there's some more subtle stuff.


I had to read the second comment a few times before I realized the the cross dressing comment could honestly just be stylistic distaste rather than homophobic. 

One could easily have a distaste for it as a trend thing because it kind of devalues the idea of some people making it part of their identity. On the other hand, trends normalizing it could have a sparticus effect.


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 5, 2021)

If those two comments are homophobic then i dont think you know what homophobic is....

Then again though if this thread is about to go to THAT direction then it better lock it down quick.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 5, 2021)

Geez, did I log onto TGP by accident? 


MrWulf said:


> If those two comments are homophobic then i dont think you know what homophobic is....
> 
> Then again though if this thread is about to go to THAT direction then it better lock it down quick.


OK, queerphobic or LGBT-phobic. Between that and calling the Japanese guy's persona more "elegant" than the guys with hip hop influences, and this thread is not pretty.


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 5, 2021)

Please stop pearl clutching. I never see Ichika makes an ass of himself unlike Polyphia. Dude just makes clips of his own playing and let it speak for itself. That alones makes him about infinitely more likeable than Polyphia.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 5, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Geez, did I log onto TGP by accident?
> 
> OK, queerphobic or LGBT-phobic. Between that and calling the Japanese guy's persona more "elegant" than the guys with hip hop influences, and this thread is not pretty.



I said Ichika has a more elegant persona because he's a super nice and polite person instead of an arrogant douchebag. Is that homophobic? Jeez..... 

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous.


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 5, 2021)

Is there a guitar forum out there that strictly bans all types of political, gender, religious talk and actually only talks about music and gear type stuff? Where is that forum?


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> Is there a guitar forum out there that strictly bans all types of political, gender, religious talk and actually only talks about music and gear type stuff? Where is that forum?



Uh.... The Telecaster Forum *TDPRI* is pretty strict, but they rarely talk about guitars. Easily distracted that lot.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Aug 5, 2021)

Since when are musicians supposed to conform to an identity standard? Since when are all musicians supposed to be nice and perfect? God forbid someone not dress all in black and have long hair that they spin around in circles while they play. 

Tim henson can play. There's no denying that. If you don't like the image and everything that goes along with it, then don't...listen... to them? lol

Polyphia is a little too pop for me, but I don't mind their stuff. In fact I had it on yesterday. #OmgImNotCool


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 5, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> Since when are musicians supposed to conform to an identity standard? Since when are all musicians supposed to be nice and perfect? God forbid someone not dress all in black and have long hair that they spin around in circles while they play.
> 
> Tim henson can play. There's no denying that. If you don't like the image and everything that goes along with it, then don't...listen... to them? lol
> 
> Polyphia is a little too pop for me, but I don't mind their stuff. In fact I had it on yesterday. #OmgImNotCool


 I still want to see all the examples of him being a douche. I may not be into the music much or like his fashion sense but I still wouldn't call him a douche based on what I've seen. That could quickly change I guess but I don't have it out for him but would like to see some examples we keep hearing about.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 5, 2021)

In the interviews I've seen, Tim and Scott sound like every other person their age.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I still want to see all the examples of him being a douche. I may not be into the music much or like his fashion sense but I still wouldn't call him a douche based on what I've seen. That could quickly change I guess but I don't have it out for him but would like to see some examples we keep hearing about.



I don't really have a horse in the race because at the end of the day, I don't really care. That said, I don't think the kid is a douche, but he comes across as a bit pretentious when he has a signature guitar, signature guitar pickups, and a signature guitar tone pack while making statements like: "I hope that guitar music dies. I want it to die a painful death." Like, mate, don't bite the hand that feeds.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 5, 2021)

What’s “guitar music” ?


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> What’s “guitar music” ?



Well, that would be music with guitars.


----------



## BMFan30 (Aug 5, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Well, that would be music with guitars.


Like the type he's making with guitars but wants the guitars to be emo enough to kill themselves so he doesn't have to.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 5, 2021)

<Deadpool clicks Unwatch Thread>


----------



## vertibration (Aug 5, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Plenty of guitar bands write good music. And, I would lump Tim in with Deftones under the category of "Music that doesn't interest me".



You must be in one of those "guitar bands"


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 5, 2021)

vertibration said:


> You must be in one of those "guitar bands"



I'm sorry, but I've opted to dismiss you from having a valid opinion on music when you praised the Deftones.


----------



## narad (Aug 5, 2021)

StevenC said:


> In the interviews I've seen, Tim and Scott sound like every other person their age.



Aren't you their age?


----------



## StevenC (Aug 5, 2021)

narad said:


> Aren't you their age?


And aren't you like 40?


----------



## CanserDYI (Aug 5, 2021)

How would anyone on earth say Tim Henson has bad tone? Like the hell? Dude's definitely a douche but his music and his tone are....not bad in any way shape or form.


----------



## budda (Aug 5, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> How would anyone on earth say Tim Henson has bad tone? Like the hell? Dude's definitely a douche but his music and his tone are....not bad in any way shape or form.



That's pretty easy!

Tone is subjective.

/thread

Can this be loaded to the ** yet?


----------



## narad (Aug 5, 2021)

#alltonesarebeautiful


----------



## Millul (Aug 5, 2021)

narad said:


> #alltonesarebeautiful



Look at you! 40, and using hashtags!!!


----------



## Captain Butterscotch (Aug 5, 2021)

Damn kids with their spanky sparkly tones and neck drawlins coming round here changing the town I tell you hwhat back in my day people woulda never stood for this bah gawd


----------



## narad (Aug 5, 2021)

Millul said:


> Look at you! 40, and using hashtags!!!


----------



## Kaura (Aug 6, 2021)

All I wanted was to talk about this plugin.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 6, 2021)

Kaura said:


> All I wanted was to talk about this plugin.



... my bad.


----------



## vertibration (Aug 6, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> I'm sorry, but I've opted to dismiss you from having a valid opinion on music when you praised the Deftones.



If you dont like the Deftones, Im pretty sure your taste in music is trash bruh


----------



## StevenC (Aug 6, 2021)

vertibration said:


> If you dont like the Deftones, Im pretty sure your taste in music is trash bruh


ArtDecade's taste in music is independent of Deftones sucking.


----------



## vertibration (Aug 6, 2021)

Too many winger fans out here....


----------



## WarMachine (Aug 6, 2021)

.....um, Red Beach is a tho..


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 6, 2021)

vertibration said:


> Too many winger fans out here....



Love me some Winger. I think you will find they have a lot of fans on this forum. Reb is a killer player.

Here is your boy Stephen Carpenter talking about being both a flat-earther and an anti-vaxxer. Enjoy.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/deft...-carpenter-believes-the-earth-is-flat-2815813


----------



## narad (Aug 6, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Love me some Winger. I think you will find they have a lot of fans on this forum. Reb is a killer player.
> 
> Here is your boy Stephen Carpenter talking about being both a flat-earther and an anti-vaxxer. Enjoy.
> https://www.nme.com/news/music/deft...-carpenter-believes-the-earth-is-flat-2815813



That's just his public persona. Polyphia has this whole cristal and trustfund kid vibe going on. Carpenter has this whole crystals and trust-no-one kind of vibe going on.


----------



## Matt08642 (Aug 6, 2021)

ITT: Psychological projection & butthurt

Tim "bad tone no taste" Henson and Scott "I don't like this guys pants so he must be a dickhead" LePage with their record deals and world tours + being invited to play with Vai, Satch, and Paul Gilbert on stage, those guys must SUCK.

It's also hilarious that people here can't seem to/are pretending not to grasp what they mean by "guitar music" in comparison to what they play to seemingly just hate on the dude.

HAHA WOW HE PLAYS A GUITAR YET DOESN'T ENJOY GUITAR-CENTRIC MUSIC, CHECK MATE PUFFY SHIRT!







It's weird when musicians deride and dismiss people trying to do something relatively new, especially if it gets others to pick up an instrument.


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 6, 2021)

The only thing wrong with Steph Carpenter and the DefTones is that middle pickup. Everything else he says is truth. Hold my joint.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 6, 2021)

I mean, everything you said is accurate, but they're still insufferable personalities in interviews.


Matt08642 said:


> ITT: Psychological projection & butthurt
> 
> Tim "bad tone no taste" Henson and Scott "I don't like this guys pants so he must be a dickhead" LePage with their record deals and world tours + being invited to play with Vai, Satch, and Paul Gilbert on stage, those guys must SUCK.
> 
> ...


----------



## RevDrucifer (Aug 6, 2021)

Aren’t these dudes still in their early 20’s? They’re still kids and experiencing attention and fame. Depending on how they were raised and how much they’ve been taught to be grateful for things in life will be a big determining factor in how they respond to that attention and fame. 

Certainly not the first time a younger person develops a bit of an ego after obtaining some success and they won’t be the last. 

And ya never know what they’re being told to do by their publicist. Yngwie’s ego is bigger than his music. No one gives a shit about Yngwie’s music any more, nor have they in quite some time, but his personality still gets him headlines in the guitar community. In fact, I’m under the belief that he was told to start letting that ego fly again because in the 2010’s he seemed to chill quite a bit, but it’s all coming out again. Without Yngwie’s ego, there’s just some dude who plays fast. 

So far all we know, their publicist could be like, “Just keep saying whatever comes in your mind, the more noise you make, the more views you’re going to get on YouTube.” For every person that doesn’t know the band and saw that “I hope guitar music dies” headline, they probably got a couple thousand extra clicks out of just that headline.


----------



## BigViolin (Aug 6, 2021)

Tim will out troll you...and out play you. 

The funniest part is how anyone can take the cringe/ego shit seriously and when they really ramp up the cringe factor people double down it.

The kids are more than alright. 

I remember being really offended by the Dimarzio pics for like 2 minutes. What a dumbshit I was.


----------



## BMFan30 (Aug 6, 2021)

I don't understand why he won't just make actual rap music, surely that would be more successful at killing guitar music than his guitar. But Nu Metal tried that already and failed because they accidentally brought random people to love metal instead. 

What he makes is basically rap music anyways, it's just in denial about it somehow. He looks like a soundcloud rapper. Why the need to almost make full circle, but not quite? Fucking lap up already.


BigViolin said:


> Tim will out troll you...and out play you.
> 
> The funniest part is how anyone can take the cringe/ego shit seriously and when they really ramp up the cringe factor people double down it.
> 
> ...


If his cringe/emo act shouldn't be taken seriously then why put so many resources and money to put forth this act and doing interviews to promote it? I've seen acts that don't take themselves seriously and it shows. This is just who they are.

Is it just a parody to drive up sales by getting everyone to hate douchbaggery? If so it's working I guess. "We got you your own plugin but if only they knew you were just kidding about it" hahaha 

He should at least get rappers on his tracks so he doesn't deny them their power on songs that will kill the guitar scene dead in its tracks because he idolizes raps. What does one get from cringe acts other than everyone talking about how cringy it is even if they are defending them?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> I don't understand why he won't just make actual rap music, surely that would be more successful at killing guitar music than his guitar. But Nu Metal tried that already and failed because they accidentally brought random people to love metal instead.
> 
> What he makes is basically rap music anyways, it's just in denial about it somehow. He looks like a soundcloud rapper. Why the need to almost make full circle, but not quite? Fucking lap up already.
> 
> ...


 Polyphia's new album is actually going to be them collaborating with rappers. He talked about it on the Goons podcast earlier in the year.


----------



## BMFan30 (Aug 6, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Polyphia's new album is actually going to be them collaborating with rappers. He talked about it on the Goons podcast earlier in the year.


I actually would respect it more for it's translated honesty than the shit they're pulling now while everyone is saying they're joking about the cringe factor. 

I have no problem with Hip-Hop taking a side route to get it done. The Roots did it, I actually like The Roots though.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> I actually would respect it more for it's translated honesty than the shit they're pulling now while everyone is saying they're joking about the cringe factor.
> 
> I have no problem with Hip-Hop taking a side route to get it done. The Roots did it, I actually like The Roots though.


Honestly that episode of the podcast is quite interesting as all the dudes on it are primarily video game youtubers, but they're all interested in guitars/guitar music to a degree. 
Tim talks about how when the band first started they were playing super fast techy deathcore stuff, then it mutated into djenty stuff, then they started moving towards a very different sound as their tastes change. He also mentions how he's been interested in hip hop/rap for quite some time, and was in contact with guys like blackbear for years, so this is long coming apparently. More power to them if they can bring guitar acrobatics to the masses. Besides, we always have Ghostemane if you want basically black metal mixed with rap lol


----------



## BMFan30 (Aug 6, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Tim talks about how when the band first started they were playing super fast techy deathcore stuff, then it mutated into djenty stuff, then they started moving towards a very different sound as their tastes change.


As it does when you progress with music. This parts honest. The trip is about ending somewhere other than where you started.



KnightBrolaire said:


> He also mentions how he's been interested in hip hop/rap for quite some time, and was in contact with guys like blackbear for years, so this is long coming apparently. More power to them if they can bring guitar acrobatics to the masses. Besides, we always have Ghostemane if you want basically black metal mixed with rap lol


I never knew someone actually mixed black metal with rap. Bunghole widening. Not sure if I should check or not.

I'm just not sure why he would try to kill guitar music other than make alternative rap music because that's what he's doing no matter what he calls it. People make music with guitars aren't out to take away from other genres more than add more to their own. Taste is subjective without any wrong answers.

Maybe he does just seek attention by trying to piss off the same crowd they came from. Just don't see why he needs to do that. Could just leave it at "I love rap music and would like to have my own take on it using real instruments"

Maybe that way people who read his article might get an honest representation other than pissing them off just because he came from metal and knows how much they care about their music.


----------



## Wolfhorsky (Aug 6, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Love me some Winger. I think you will find they have a lot of fans on this forum. Reb is a killer player.
> 
> Here is your boy Stephen Carpenter talking about being both a flat-earther and an anti-vaxxer. Enjoy.
> https://www.nme.com/news/music/deft...-carpenter-believes-the-earth-is-flat-2815813


Sorry for the offtopic. 
OMG. One of many problems of our society is that most of people don't differentiate the their own opinions with the facts. Stephen isn't an engineer or a doctor, so His opinions are based upon His own thoughts, not proper education and knowledge. Blame Dunning-Kruger effect here. But here's another problem: very many people listen to and have faith in the words of famous people, regardless of their knowledge and expertise.
But, damn... Guy flies AROUND the world and still thinks that Earth is flat...  It is a good example how education is important for our future.
And yes - while being an idiot, sometimes it is better to remain silent than dispel the doubts. 
Sorry for the offtopic.

Regarding the Tim persona - I really don't like their (Polyphia) recent stuff. If the plugin/app is made to achieve that annoying (for me of course) sounds then it is clear that it is not aimed at demographic where I belong.
Cheers and peace.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 6, 2021)

I think Stef had to get rid of the critical thinking and common sense parts of his brain to be able to store all those killer fucking riffs and ESP custom guitars ideas.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 12, 2021)

“That was the whole point, was to polarize. You either love it or you fucking hate it. And that’s what we want.”
- Tim Henson, 2019


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 12, 2021)

Oh. It occurs to me that this sound he’s talking about around the 9:00 mark is likely what ended up being the Vocalizer in the plug-in. Interesting.


----------



## WarMachine (Aug 12, 2021)

No disrepect @Deadpool_25
Huh....super mid. Not tooting my own horn by any means here guys, but i've found very, _*VERY*_ few guitarists out there in my playing that has made me think damn, i need to get my chops into shape. "mid"? I've played some shows with some big bands, got the crowds from them. Ended up having other band mates end up flaking and dropping out. I can say with absolute fucking certainty, that it has _*NOTHING*_ to do solely, with skill. It's about the break at the right time, with the right band at the right venue.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 12, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> “That was the whole point, was to polarize. You either love it or you fucking hate it. And that’s what we want.”
> - Tim Henson, 2019




Does he have prosthetic legs or just the skinniest legs you've ever seen? Maybe that thumbnail is playing tricks on me.


----------



## Metropolis (Aug 12, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Does he have prosthetic legs or just the skinniest legs you've ever seen? Maybe that thumbnail is playing tricks on me.



He skipped the leg day... those jeans are very skinny, and oversized fitting top clothing and those sneakers are emphasizing it more.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Aug 23, 2021)

I'll probably try it out, my amps in the repair shop so I'm just running through all the free trials until it's done. Doubt I'll like it but the cleans might be fun. Tried Nolly ,slow and have plini now. So far the slo is the best one for me. 

Not a huge polyphia fan these days , can respect tims skill though.


----------



## Legion (Aug 24, 2021)

Some serious boomer energy up in this thread...


----------



## narad (Aug 24, 2021)

Legion said:


> Some serious boomer energy up in this thread...



Word fam, this plugin is lit. Boomers got nothing better to do post-retirement than come in here and throw shade? Y'all fools


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 24, 2021)

Seeing as how many Boomers are playing Kempers, I don't think age is the issue when it comes to technology. Well, it probably is on the Gear Page where they all suggest a 100w Marshall for every application.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 24, 2021)

WarMachine said:


> No disrepect @Deadpool_25
> Huh....super mid. Not tooting my own horn by any means here guys, but i've found very, _*VERY*_ few guitarists out there in my playing that has made me think damn, i need to get my chops into shape. "mid"? I've played some shows with some big bands, got the crowds from them. Ended up having other band mates end up flaking and dropping out. I can say with absolute fucking certainty, that it has _*NOTHING*_ to do solely, with skill. It's about the break at the right time, with the right band at the right venue.



None taken. But probably because I have no idea what you’re referring to lol. Did I say “mid” somewhere??


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 24, 2021)

Not sure who this guy is, but he does seem to like the plug-in.


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## BMFan30 (Aug 24, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Not sure who this guy is, but he does seem to like the plug-in.



I think that's the guy they designed the plugin for lol
Would be odd if he went up there and trashed his own plugin by trying to advertise it with reverse psychology


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 24, 2021)

I gotta wonder what goes through someone's mind when they decide they want a full neck tattoo.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Aug 24, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I gotta wonder what goes through someone's mind when they decide they want a full neck tattoo.



"I want to permanently look like I'm wearing a turtleneck."

Turtlenecks are quite stylish. I can see why.


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## VESmedic (Aug 24, 2021)

Wow… this is terrible on all levels. Christ.

all you millennial clowns, get over it when someone has a different opinion on threads like this than you. That’s how life works, I know it’s a tough. Maybe when half of you can fill out an application on your own without HR calling you from McDonald’s to let you know you forgot to put in certain parts of your application, you can cry about other people’s opinions. This shit sucks.



also, if you glorify making fun of people of older age ( hence my comment above) or people stereotypically from the south, yet get sideways when someone makes fun of the way the kid dresses, you are, in fact, a hypocrite, and part of the problem. I know you clowns from California don’t understand this but, making fun of anyone regardless of gender, age, whatever , and not just black people, people of color, people different than you , people you don’t understand, is ALL. THE. SAME. Let that sink in for a bit, then come back, maybe get out your feelings and pearl clutching virtual signaling barf fest you just wrote, and relax… also, this shit still sucks. Hard. Big hard non binary gender non dick.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 24, 2021)

For someone who is apparently the paragon of getting over it when someone has a different opinion than you, you sure came in hot to a thread you had no prior participation in to say something sucks.







Guess that's just my millennial opinion though, can anyone help me fill out this application and tie my shoes?


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## VESmedic (Aug 24, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> For someone who is apparently the paragon of getting over it when someone has a different opinion than you, you sure came in hot to a thread you had no prior participation in to say something sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Sure, go ahead and send me your address, if you even know it. Do you not know how to read a non digital clock too?


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 24, 2021)

Boomer's were born between 1946-64 according to The Google. Even that's a stretch (imo). I think of 'authentic' boomers as being born shortly after WWII. Now the latest generation is being called "generation alpha"  I think that "me, myself and I-Gen" was a much better descriptor, but Alpha? No, not alpha. Far from Alpha. The only thing the newest generation is alpha about is weaker boomers on their death beds. 
- Nobody's generation will ever be greater than the Greatest, Silent, and Boomer generations, and to say othewise is extreme disrespect, imo. 
- I'm a Gen-X according to The Google. Yes, I'm saying The Google just to stir the pot. Every generation gets weaker, more stupid and selfish with time. We're devolving because our brains are being put into a computer rather than staying in our brains so our brains function less optimally. 
- If plugins were on par with the real deal I'd be all over them. Who wouldn't want a practically problem free, light weight, less expensive solution? But nothing beats what was invented almost a hundred years ago by the greatest generation and pioneered by the boomer generation 70+ years ago. Tubes are the way. Tubes are our salvation. Tubes will save the world. At least until something actually better comes along. 

* This was meant to be a tongue in cheek statement with a dash of truth. Please don't soil your shorts or run to your mommies nipple over it. No racism, homophobia, sjw, political, or other disrespect was meant via these statements. Don't worry and settle down. Everything's gonna be ok.


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## WarMachine (Aug 24, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> None taken. But probably because I have no idea what you’re referring to lol. Did I say “mid” somewhere??


I was talking about what he was saying in the video a little further back. He was spewing arrogance all over it.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 24, 2021)

VESmedic said:


> Wow… this is terrible on all levels. Christ.
> 
> all you millennial clowns, get over it when someone has a different opinion on threads like this than you. That’s how life works, I know it’s a tough. Maybe when half of you can fill out an application on your own without HR calling you from McDonald’s to let you know you forgot to put in certain parts of your application, you can cry about other people’s opinions. This shit sucks.
> 
> ...


"I can't believe how judgmental and lame you all are!"
*insert lame judgmental, nonsensical, boomer-ass rant


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## VESmedic (Aug 24, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> "I can't believe how judgmental and lame you all are!"
> *insert lame judgmental, nonsensical, boomer-ass rant





you are super bright , aren’t you? I literally addressed why I said what I said. I know, words are hard.


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## StevenC (Aug 24, 2021)

VESmedic said:


> Sure, go ahead and send me your address, if you even know it. Do you not know how to read a non digital clock too?


I only respect people who tell the time by sundial.


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## VESmedic (Aug 24, 2021)

StevenC said:


> I only respect people who tell the time by sundial.





You insensitive prick… only native Americans used sundials… how insensitive and racist of you.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I gotta wonder what goes through someone's mind when they decide they want a full neck tattoo.


I vaguely remember tim saying he regretted the neck tat in an interview lol


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## Jeffrey Bain (Aug 24, 2021)

VESmedic said:


> Wow… this is terrible on all levels. Christ.
> 
> all you millennial clowns, get over it when someone has a different opinion on threads like this than you. That’s how life works, I know it’s a tough. Maybe when half of you can fill out an application on your own without HR calling you from McDonald’s to let you know you forgot to put in certain parts of your application, you can cry about other people’s opinions. This shit sucks.
> 
> ...


What an absolute trash post. Just my opinion.


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## VESmedic (Aug 24, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> What an absolute trash post. Just my opinion.




Fair enough!


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## sakeido (Aug 24, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I gotta wonder what goes through someone's mind when they decide they want a full neck tattoo.


Travis Barker from Blink 182 did it so he'd have no choice but to go all in on his music career. Tattoos closed a lot of doors back then, not as much now, but who knows maybe it was the same line of thinking


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## narad (Aug 24, 2021)

I don't know about boomer energy but the second a thread about a plugin devolved into an argument about neck tattos and boomers vs. millennials, it was certainly full of SSO energy.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2021)

sakeido said:


> Travis Barker from Blink 182 did it so he'd have no choice but to go all in on his music career. Tattoos closed a lot of doors back then, not as much now, but who knows maybe it was the same line of thinking


Lots of younger people are getting hand/neck tats. The only community I've seen really miffed by it are tattoo enthusiasts who find it weird that people would get those kind of tats when they have tons of still viable skin to tattoo first.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 24, 2021)

There was a time that if I had cash to burn and a cool design I really liked, something super visible and big like that wouldn't have completely off the table for me but there are always other things I need to spend my hard earned monies on... and I'm also old now so that if I do it now it's definitely in full "mid life crisis" territory. haha

But still...even if I wanted a huge tat at one point, I'm gonna drop a turtleneck joke on a full neck tat, because it's low hanging fruit for a joke, and it makes me laugh on the inside. I think I could rock one pretty well though if I did it haha

anywho, Tim henson can play good. I dunno about that neural dsp stuff though. I think I'll just stick with helix native. lol


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 25, 2021)

WarMachine said:


> I was talking about what he was saying in the video a little further back. He was spewing arrogance all over it.



Ah. Yeah he’s almost always pretty cringey lately. I was just saying I think they’re just trying to be over the top so you either love them or hate them. Kinda like a lot of hip hop acts (which they claim as influences). 




BMFan30 said:


> I think that's the guy they designed the plugin for lol
> Would be odd if he went up there and trashed his own plugin by trying to advertise it with reverse psychology



Yeah I was being ironic. Tim comes across so mellow and…well…normal in that video. That’s very unlike his norm. At least unlike what I’ve seen of his public persona the last couple of years.


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## Richter (Aug 25, 2021)

Soooo back to the plugin. Downloaded the trial. Very nice cleans and faux piezo sounds. Beautiful reverb and shimmer. Nice and warm distorted tone using the 3rd amp. I really like the amps aesthetics. Bought the plugin. Very happy with it. I have yet to experiment with the multivoicer and go crazy with Holdsworthesque sounds.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

This thread is a full on disaster. I dig it.


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## WarMachine (Aug 25, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> This thread is a full on disaster. I dig it.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)




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## Legion (Aug 25, 2021)

narad said:


> Word fam, this plugin is lit. Boomers got nothing better to do post-retirement than come in here and throw shade? Y'all fools


Funny thing is, I'm not even a fan of polyphia, and the plugin is not my cup of tea. But some of the responses on this thread, yeesh...
Fact of the matter is Tim can outplay and has better tone than literally everyone posting here.


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## narad (Aug 25, 2021)

Legion said:


> Funny thing is, I'm not even a fan of polyphia, and the plugin is not my cup of tea. But some of the responses on this thread, yeesh...
> Fact of the matter is Tim can outplay and has better tone than literally everyone posting here.



I'm not sure about the latter. In fact, I think it'd be hard to make the case for that given that anyone who thought that tone is better than theirs can have it for like $100.


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## Legion (Aug 25, 2021)

narad said:


> I'm not sure about the latter. In fact, I think it'd be hard to make the case for that given that anyone who thought that tone is better than theirs can have it for like $100.


Fair enough


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 25, 2021)

Legion said:


> Fact of the matter is Tim can outplay and has better tone than literally everyone posting here.



Are we not allowed to dunk on people if they're better at the instrument than we are? Not even MAB?


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## Legion (Aug 25, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Are we not allowed to dunk on people if they're better at the instrument than we are? Not even MAB?


Do you HAVE to have someone to dunk on?


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 26, 2021)

To fan the flames, here is Tim Henson claiming he has never heard the Metallica Black Album. Crazy if true. *insert rant*


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> To fan the flames, here is Tim Henson claiming he has never heard the Metallica Black Album. Crazy if true. *insert rant*



He might be telling the truth because he certainly isn't lifting any of their good ideas.


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## broangiel (Aug 26, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> To fan the flames, here is Tim Henson claiming he has never heard the Metallica Black Album. Crazy if true. *insert rant*



At the risk of being exiled, I’ve never heard it either. I joke with my wife that I only listen to music that was released after 2006, and the reality is not that far from the truth.

In short, that claim doesn’t blow my mind at all. I think Tim is younger than I am, so he’s even further removed from Metallica’s day.


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## michael_bolton (Aug 26, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> To fan the flames, here is Tim Henson claiming he has never heard the Metallica Black Album. Crazy if true. *insert rant*
> ...



not that anyone cares but just for context - I'm and old/old skool metalhead who grew up with 'tallica in the 80s and I don't think I've ever listened to load or reload in their entirety. not talking about listening start to finish - I defo never done that - talking about actually listening to all of the tunes on those and can't name more than 3 or 4 if I tried to.

enter sandman I listened to probably once or twice (not counting the vid as it was in the heavy rotation on mtv so escaping it was tricky) - they made it easier by making it first so I'd just start on the second tune which I also don't recall what that song is cause even though I had a vinyl I only played it a few times. 

point is - not surprised Tim hasn't heard it although prolly for diff reasons


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

broangiel said:


> At the risk of being exiled, I’ve never heard it either. I joke with my wife that I only listen to music that was released after 2006, and the reality is not that far from the truth.
> 
> In short, that claim doesn’t blow my mind at all. I think Tim is younger than I am, so he’s even further removed from Metallica’s day.



The Black Album still sells thousands of records every week and pops back into Billboard 200 every so often - most recently August of last year. I suppose it is possible to have not heard it, but it seems almost impossible to avoid for long.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

For what it's worth I'm younger than Tim and, while I've seen Metallica twice, I can't be sure I've ever listened to all of the songs on anything they did in the 90s.


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## BigViolin (Aug 26, 2021)

Kid's dad didn't listen to shitty bands.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 26, 2021)

broangiel said:


> At the risk of being exiled, I’ve never heard it either. I joke with my wife that I only listen to music that was released after 2006, and the reality is not that far from the truth.
> 
> In short, that claim doesn’t blow my mind at all. I think Tim is younger than I am, so he’s even further removed from Metallica’s day.


Using age is a huge cop out. I'm basically the same age as Tim, and I love old school metal. I started listening to shit like maiden/metallica/megadeth in middle school along with the more en vogue atlanta sludge and metalcore scenes that were popping off around that time. I also listened to mid 2000s deathcore like JFAC, Whitechapel in hs and bulb's demos in college same as tim, but the shit I play is nothing close to what he plays. 
I deliberately sought out those old school metal bands mostly because I wanted to see how everything evolved from year to year, and how they influenced newer bands.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 26, 2021)

I love Metallica and have seen them live four times but now that I think about I’ve never listened to all of the Black Album. 

I’d be in disbelief if he said he never listened to Passion & Warfare.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Using age is a huge cop out. I'm basically the same age as Tim, and I love old school metal. I started listening to shit like maiden/metallica/megadeth in middle school along with the more en vogue atlanta sludge and metalcore scenes that were popping off around that time. I also listened to mid 2000s deathcore like JFAC, Whitechapel in hs and bulb's demos in college same as tim, but the shit I play is nothing close to what he plays.
> I deliberately sought out those old school metal bands mostly because I wanted to see how everything evolved from year to year, and how they influenced newer bands.


Say you get into metal because of Meshuggah. I would guarantee those guys would cite Led Zeppelin as a bigger influence than the black album.

It's not about diligence or history, it's about relevance.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Say you get into metal because of Meshuggah. I would guarantee those guys would cite Led Zeppelin as a bigger influence than the black album.
> 
> It's not about diligence or history, it's about relevance.



*Timas Haake on his influences:*
Lars Ulrich (Metallica)
“I nearly went for Charlie Benante from Anthrax, because he was kind of my favourite. But Metallica were the band that changed everything, and Lars was such an integral part of what made that band. Lars and Metallica at that time were a band that were unlike anything we had ever heard before. They were a completely new animal. It was actually quite technical for the time, if you listen to Kill ‘Em All or Ride The Lightning the work he does on that is very innovative. So you have to give him his props.”

*The other guys he listed:*
Phil Rudd (AC/DC)
Bill Ward (Black Sabbath)
Vinnie Appice (Rainbow/Dio/ Black Sabbath)
Dave Weckl (Chick Corea Elektric Band)

*Mårten Hagström on Hetfield:*
I think James Hetfield is one of the best in terms of the metal world. His precision is untouchable. Scott Ian is another fantastic rhythm guitarist! A lot of the Bay Area thrash (VIO-LENCE, TESTAMENT etc.) guys were very good with their rhythms too. But one that most people don't talk about Devin Townsend (STRAPPING YOUNG LAD) who I think is one of the best rhythm players around today. He's killer!

I'm having a hard time finding an interview where they mention Led Zep as influence.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 26, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Say you get into metal because of Meshuggah. I would guarantee those guys would cite Led Zeppelin as a bigger influence than the black album.
> 
> It's not about diligence or history, it's about relevance.


Yeah I mean I saw all the djent shit evolve from meshuggah firsthand. I've heard enough interviews from tim to know that thrash and old school stuff never really appealed to him (some of it did rub off on scotty tho). The black album is weird because it's insanely mainstream for a metal album. Lissie did a stelllar cover of Nothing else matters like 10 years ago, and I know a bunch of women who were secondhand exposed to metallica because of that.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 26, 2021)

Not everyone gives a shit about what came before (myself included, I would have never heard Slayer or Metallica if I didn't have friends that showed them to me, and I don't own or have ever owned records from either band even though I'm a "metalhead"), just what sounds good to them. I could really give two shits less what happened in music before like 1994. Pedigree and influence of my favorites from growing don't matter in the slightest for my enjoyment.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> *Timas Haake on his influences:*
> 
> Lars Ulrich (Metallica)
> “I nearly went for Charlie Benante from Anthrax, because he was kind of my favourite. But Metallica were the band that changed everything, and Lars was such an integral part of what made that band. Lars and Metallica at that time were a band that were unlike anything we had ever heard before. They were a completely new animal. It was actually quite technical for the time, if you listen to Kill ‘Em All or Ride The Lightning the work he does on that is very innovative. So you have to give him his props.”
> ...


Read what I what I wrote again, then read what you wrote again.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Read what I what I wrote again, then read what you wrote again.



They never mention Led Zep as an influence at all. At least they have heard of Metallica and list them as an influence. I have no idea if they care about the Black Album, but your "diligence or history, it's about relevance" is skewed.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> They never mention Led Zep as an influence at all. At least they have heard of Metallica and list them as an influence. I have no idea if they care about the Black Album, but your "diligence or history, it's about relevance" is skewed.


Meshuggah's first album came out before the black album and their second album didn't sound more like the black album than the first. I know for a fact Fredrik is a bigger Zeppelin fan than the black album, and Fredrik writes most of the music.


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## michael_bolton (Aug 26, 2021)

looked up Polyphia on youtube. pretty decent tunes, good chops. won't be cranking this but it's not puke-inducing by any stretch of imagination, very doable. tone - not my thing but works in their context I think.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Meshuggah's first album came out before the black album and their second album didn't sound more like the black album than the first. I know for a fact Fredrik is a bigger Zeppelin fan than the black album, and Fredrik writes most of the music.



Fred was in a Metallica cover band back in the 80s. I still can't find any interviews where he even mentions Led Zep, but Metallica was clearly relevant to their interests. The Black Album took Metallica from a metal band to a music industry. It doesn't matter if you liked it or not. It was a statement that shook all the heavy bands in the 1990s.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Fred was in a Metallica cover band back in the 80s. I still can't find any interviews where he even mentions Led Zep, but Metallica was clearly relevant to their interests. The Black Album took Metallica from a metal band to a music industry. It doesn't matter if you liked it or not. It was a statement that shook all the heavy bands in the 1990s.


Ok, but again. This is about the black album. All music anyone has ever heard has shaped their taste and ear. But you've said Fred and Tomas liked early Metallica. You haven't contradicted me.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Ok, but again. This is about the black album. All music anyone has ever heard has shaped their taste and ear. But you've said Fred and Tomas liked early Metallica. You haven't contradicted me.



You made it about Led Zep. Wrongly.


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## StevenC (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> You made it about Led Zep. Wrongly.


Did you watch the video? The relevant clip is about stuff that isn't ubiquitous anymore and I was suggesting a route for how someone could get into metal/guitar without listening to the black album.

A different route could be Tool and Led Zeppelin/King Crimson if you insist.


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## broangiel (Aug 26, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Using age is a huge cop out. I'm basically the same age as Tim, and I love old school metal. I started listening to shit like maiden/metallica/megadeth in middle school along with the more en vogue atlanta sludge and metalcore scenes that were popping off around that time. I also listened to mid 2000s deathcore like JFAC, Whitechapel in hs and bulb's demos in college same as tim, but the shit I play is nothing close to what he plays.
> I deliberately sought out those old school metal bands mostly because I wanted to see how everything evolved from year to year, and how they influenced newer bands.


What is anyone copping out of? I’m simply noting that the further you are removed from something (Metallica’s hay day), the less likely you are to come into contact with it. Is that so unreasonable to you?


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## broangiel (Aug 26, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Not everyone gives a shit about what came before (myself included, I would have never heard Slayer or Metallica if I didn't have friends that showed them to me, and I don't own or have ever owned records from either band even though I'm a "metalhead"), just what sounds good to them. I could really give two shits less what happened in music before like 1994. Pedigree and influence of my favorites from growing don't matter in the slightest for my enjoyment.


Yes, this is me, and this is what I was trying to say about Tim. This is entirely reasonable. I’m not sure why his comment is apparently so offensive or unbelievable.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 26, 2021)




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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 27, 2021)

broangiel said:


> What is anyone copping out of? I’m simply noting that the further you are removed from something (Metallica’s hay day), the less likely you are to come into contact with it. Is that so unreasonable to you?


You were literally trying to imply that being under 30 was a valid reason to not have heard certain music. That's a cop out. I gave a counterpoint of my own personal experience. For a lot of people my age the bigger old school bands like Metallica/Megadeth etc were still popular. At the end of the day Tim deliberately chose not to seek out that kind of music and that's fine, but my point is that his choice wasn't necessarily the norm. Listen to Tosin and Misha talk in that Rick Beato interview, and they're kind of incredulous at Tim's statement about only knowing Some Kind of Monster and Enter Sandman.


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## broangiel (Aug 27, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> You were literally trying to imply that being under 30 was a valid reason to not have heard certain music. That's a cop out. I gave a counterpoint of my own personal experience. For a lot of people my age the bigger old school bands like Metallica/Megadeth etc were still popular. At the end of the day Tim deliberately chose not to seek out that kind of music and that's fine, but my point is that his choice wasn't necessarily the norm. Listen to Tosin and Misha talk in that Rick Beato interview, and they're kind of incredulous at Tim's statement about only knowing Some Kind of Monster and Enter Sandman.


Lol, no one is “copping out” of anything. That’s an explanation, not an excuse. Of course being younger is a valid reason to have not heard older music—how familiar are you with music of the 1950s? 

That fact that you sought it out doesn’t mean everyone else does or even cares to do so. Your counterpoint is just as valid as mine or Tim’s or anyone else’s experience, so I’m not sure how your anecdote is meant to validate or invalidate someone else’s approach to music or their listening habits.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 27, 2021)

broangiel said:


> Lol, no one is “copping out” of anything. That’s an explanation, not an excuse. Of course being younger is a valid reason to have not heard older music—how familiar are you with music of the 1950s?
> 
> That fact that you sought it out doesn’t mean everyone else does or even cares to do so. Your counterpoint is just as valid as mine or Tim’s or anyone else’s experience, so I’m not sure how your anecdote is meant to validate or invalidate someone else’s approach to music or their listening habits.



I'm not trying to invalidate his approach or what he listened to. I was just offering my viewpoint which runs contrary to his, and clearly to some others in this thread.

I wouldn't expect most people to go out of their way to dig through decades worth of metal just to catch up to current shit. I did it purely because I liked seeing where artists got their inspiration from, and because I like being able to analyze that stuff. I did the same thing with certain periods of visual art that I enjoy.

I just dislike people painting with broad strokes acting as though tim is the mouthpiece for all people his age.


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## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

Most people Tim's agree or younger will have grown up with Metallica as a legacy band already. By the time they came across Metallica, the black album was already established as the one where they sold out and started to suck. Unless they were introduced to Metallica specifically with the black album, they probably started with whatever album was out at the time (St Anger/Death Magnetic/Hardwired) or with the 4 good albums, and ignored whatever came after that (because if you're just getting into Metallica you probably don't know a lot about metal and your opinion will be easily shaped by popular opinion).


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## broangiel (Aug 27, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I just dislike people painting with broad strokes acting as though tim is the mouthpiece for all people his age.


To be clear, I never said or implied this. I simply stated that I could relate to his experience and that it doesn't surprise me if others could as well. I understand we may be the exception, especially on a forum like SSO, but different strokes for different folks and all.


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## Thrashman (Aug 27, 2021)

Bla bla bla take your shittalk elsewhere you god damn boomers.


----------



## narad (Aug 27, 2021)

Thrashman said:


> Bla bla bla take your shittalk elsewhere you god damn boomers.



In other words, "Get off my lawn"?


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## profwoot (Aug 27, 2021)

This conversation is a recapitulation of the one about how if you care about literature then you need to have read Portrait of the Artist or Catcher in the Rye even though their influence was so great that they actually seem pretty stale because they're so similar to later works you have read.

Metallica was my favorite band when the black album came out, but that was 30 years ago now. Saying a "real" metal fan today has to worship the black album would have been like requiring a real metal fan back then to adore the Beatles. The genre has moved on and diversified, and it can be very desirable to avoid being influenced by the same thing everyone else is influenced by.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 27, 2021)

It was more tongue in cheek linking that video because I'm sure some boomers on here would be mad when I said I've never listened to any judas priest album. The black album is one of the greatest albums of all time to me given my age (I was born in 1983) but I totally get how someone born in the 2000's may have only heard enter sandman and think of Metallica in the same way I think of Judas Priest or Sabbath.


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## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

The black album isn't a very good album though. It's at most their 5th best effort.

Also, Helter Skelter did more for metal musically than the black album and is a better metal song than any on that album.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 27, 2021)

StevenC said:


> The black album isn't a very good album though. It's at most their 5th best effort.
> 
> Also, Helter Skelter did more for metal musically than the black album and is a better metal song than any on that album.



Irrespective of that ridiculous take (it's top 2 or 3 ), its by far their most popular album at 16x platinum according to wikipedia.


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## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Irrespective of that ridiculous take (it's top 2 or 3 ), its by far their most popular album at 16x platinum according to wikipedia.


Why would you come on to a guitar forum where the predominant taste is metal and argue that popular=good?


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## ArtDecade (Aug 27, 2021)

StevenC said:


> *The black album isn't a very good album though*. It's at most their 5th best effort.
> 
> Also, *Helter Skelter did more for metal musically than the black album* and is a better metal song than any on that album.


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## Emperoff (Aug 27, 2021)

StevenC said:


> The black album isn't a very good album though. It's at most their 5th best effort.
> 
> Also, Helter Skelter did more for metal musically than the black album and is a better metal song than any on that album.



If the 5th best effort of a band goes multi-platinum, they probably did something right.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 27, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Why would you come on to a guitar forum where the predominant taste is metal and argue that popular=good?


Where in my post did I imply popularity == good? We're talking about one of the most popular metal albums of all time and people who haven't listened to it.

The black album is still an amazing album, though.


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## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> If the 5th best effort of a band goes multi-platinum, they probably did something right.


Not if you have three good albums.


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## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Where in my post did I imply popularity == good?


What in my post were you responding to that wasn't a value judgement?


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## Emperoff (Aug 27, 2021)

StevenC said:


> three good albums.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 28, 2021)

I just wanted to pop in to say this thread is cancer. 

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.


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## narad (Aug 28, 2021)

Steven just wanted to try SSO on hard mode


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 28, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> I just wanted to pop in to say this thread is cancer.
> 
> Thank you for coming to my ted talk.



If we could only find a way to merge and combine this thread with the Dean/Dime thread.


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## c7spheres (Aug 28, 2021)

I like these videos of people just shooting the shit. This one has Tosin, Tim, and Misha.


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 28, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> I just wanted to pop in to say this thread is cancer.
> 
> Thank you for coming to my ted talk.



Wait I'm not done eating from this napkin with cheese cubes in it. I was hoping to get another white spritzer too,


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## Matt08642 (Aug 28, 2021)

I know whoever posted the Helter Skelter thing didn't exactly say this, but for the sake of the image...

Also, the irony of people raging about how Tim Henson looks while praising an album written by a guy during his Cowardly Lion phase


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## Randy (Aug 29, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I like these videos of people just shooting the shit. This one has Tosin, Tim, and Misha.




Me too, except replace "like" with "loathe"


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## AussieTerry (Aug 29, 2021)

Randy said:


> Me too, except replace "like" with "loathe"



When he speaks every 3rd word is "like".


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## Emperoff (Aug 29, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I like these videos of people just shooting the shit. This one has Tosin, Tim, and Misha.




Guess whom of the three dudes is constantly playing the guitar while other people are talking...


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 30, 2021)

Playing the misha japan strat that shouldn't have a painted headstock


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## Mathemagician (Aug 30, 2021)

For the complaints at least, frankly it just seems like this thread is full of older people who don’t know any Gen-z or younger kids. And now take a Gen-Z kid and make them a famous musician and it’s just not going to be someone who speaks/seems relatable to a 35+year old. 

I’m old enough to not expect a 20-something to be a fountain of infinite wisdom on all matters. 

I am trying to steal all of their tricks with harmonics though. Had a guitar teacher show me a few 15+ years ago and these guys went wild on that.


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## StevenC (Aug 30, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> For the complaints at least, frankly it just seems like this thread is full of older people who don’t know any Gen-z or younger kids. And now take a Gen-Z kid and make them a famous musician and it’s just not going to be someone who speaks/seems relatable to a 35+year old.
> 
> I’m old enough to not expect a 20-something to be a fountain of infinite wisdom on all matters.
> 
> I am trying to steal all of their tricks with harmonics though. Had a guitar teacher show me a few 15+ years ago and these guys went wild on that.


Tim is pretty squarely a millennial, and ironically is hanging out and relating to two guys in their mid/late 30s and one in his late 50s just fine.

This is the same stuff as the St Vincent thread a few years ago with dudes angry that a woman got a signature guitar before Jason Richardson.


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## CTID (Aug 31, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> Ironically, a lot of modern metal music is a fusion of all those things. It’s like we don’t even know what direction to go in anymore.







ArtDecade said:


> but he comes across as a bit pretentious when he has a signature guitar, signature guitar pickups, and a signature guitar tone pack while making statements like: "I hope that guitar music dies. I want it to die a painful death."



I think these thoughts are linked in a lot of ways. A lot of people have fixated on the quote that he "wants guitar music to die" and my perception of that is that for he doesn't want _the instrument _of guitar to die. He - like many people his age, myself included - grew up listening to pop/hip hop/r&b and grew up playing hair metal and shred from the 80s and formed Polyphia with the other guys, who started out with a much more "metal shred" sound. 

I think they took a look at the landscape and realized that there's 10 million bands that are in that category that sound exactly the same, and decided they didn't want to be a part of that market. I distinctly remember reading one of their pages and someone asked them if there was going to be metal influence on Muse, to which they responded No. i think that's an arguable claim, but they've clearly been trying to distance themselves from the metal community.

and i think that's because metal is just as hardheaded about innovation as the blues groups that metalheads love to shit on for not doing anything new in half a century. we're basically 50 years into the lifespan of heavy metal and while there's definitely been some major steps it's basically just more small niches carved into a bigger one. there's still plenty of people who shit on djent, which is arguably the biggest "leap" that metal made of this century, for better or worse. this is no different, just different people who are into it/who hate on it


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## CTID (Aug 31, 2021)

VESmedic said:


> Maybe when half of you can fill out an application on your own without HR calling you from McDonald’s to let you know you forgot to put in certain parts of your application, you can cry about other people’s opinions. This shit sucks.



this is straight up the funniest fucking thing i've ever read on this forum LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


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## sevenfoxes (Aug 31, 2021)

My jaw dropped when Tim said he’d never heard the Black Album.

But Misha said it best, “We’re getting old.”

That’s a really difficult fact to accept, and i suppose it’s unrealistic for us older millennials, Gen X-ers, and Boomers to expect the younger millennials and Gen Z kids to carry our same perspective on life, especially if we never teach them it.

I’d also like to think that whatever the younger generation may not be so well versed in, they make up for in other aspects of life.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 31, 2021)

Sorry to derail, but how’s the plug-in?


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## Emperoff (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm learning a lot of buzzwords from this thread. Skipping short bits on that video I saw Tim doing a string bend and calling it "The Boomer Sound".






Please keep them coming


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## c7spheres (Aug 31, 2021)

--Public service announcement ---
The youngest boomers are in their mid 50's, not their 30's and 40's. Calling an older person a boomer is like calling anyone else any other offensive or derogatory term.


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## CTID (Aug 31, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> Calling an older person a boomer is like calling anyone else any other offensive or derogatory term.



uh yeah no, i don't think you can make the argument that calling someone a boomer is the same as using a racial or homophobic slur. it's just the reverse of old man yelling at clouds


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## c7spheres (Aug 31, 2021)

CTID said:


> uh yeah no, i don't think you can make the argument that calling someone a boomer is the same as using a racial or homophobic slur. it's just the reverse of old man yelling at clouds



- It's the same in the sense that it's a derogatory term that shouldn't be used. It's ageist and disrespectful. It comes from a place of ignorance and hate. It's just another flavor of hate, division and mockery. 
- Conversely, the impact any derogatory word has on an individual is up to that individual. Being offended is a choice. 
- However, the meaning and energy behind a word is what's important, not the word itself. Is there genuine hate there or not? That's what really matters.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 31, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> - It's the same in the sense that it's a derogatory term that shouldn't be used. It's ageist and disrespectful. It comes from a place of ignorance and hate. It's just another flavor of hate, division and mockery.



They are Baby Boomers. And they called themselves Baby Boomers. They didn't take offense until Millenials started with "Okay, Boomer" memes. Should they have said "Okay Baby Boomer" instead?


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## c7spheres (Aug 31, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> They are Baby Boomers. And they called themselves Baby Boomers. They didn't take offense until Millenials started with "Okay, Boomer" memes. Should they have said "Okay Baby Boomer" instead?


 It's all about if there's literal hate, figuritive hate, or no hate behind the word, regardless of the word was my point. You can usually tell which it is when you hear or see it. It's like that "usage of the word fuck" audio track.


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## BMFan30 (Aug 31, 2021)

Calling someone a boomer is awesome, they're calling you a trippy potent shit stem happily thriving in it's own shit habitat. If someone called me a boomer while tossing a bag of boomers at me then I would be happier than butterz.


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## CTID (Aug 31, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> Being offended is a choice.



then why are you choosing to be offended by someone referring to you as a boomer?

the words aren't the same because no one has been lynched or thrown off a bridge for being in their 50s. stop victimizing yourself.

i don't know anyone personally who implicitly hates people that are older than them _for _being older than them. they hate when the older generation deigns to descend from their ivory tower to dispense what they think is wisdom they've gained from the sheer fact that they were born earlier and haven't died.


to be closer to being on topic: if someone has no interest in a plug-in, then they don't need to fucking buy it. I'm not going to buy it, and i have no interest in tim's personal life. i think polyphia's music is cool. if you don't, that's fine. just don't listen to it and move on with your life instead of writing 13 pages of arguments over how cringe you think a person is - which has no bearing on their music or this plug-in whatsoever


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## op1e (Aug 31, 2021)

The comments on all their videos are gold, JS.


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## narad (Aug 31, 2021)

CTID said:


> then why are you choosing to be offended by someone referring to you as a boomer?
> 
> the words aren't the same because no one has been lynched or thrown off a bridge for being in their 50s. stop victimizing yourself.
> 
> i don't know anyone personally who implicitly hates people that are older than them _for _being older than them. they hate when the older generation deigns to descend from their ivory tower to dispense what they think is wisdom they've gained from the sheer fact that they were born earlier and haven't died.


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## WarMachine (Aug 31, 2021)

Us older folk know what this is;




For you younger folk, this is Boomer Kuwanger


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## c7spheres (Aug 31, 2021)

CTID said:


> then why are you choosing to be offended by someone referring to you as a boomer?
> 
> the words aren't the same because no one has been lynched or thrown off a bridge for being in their 50s. stop victimizing yourself.
> 
> ...



I'm not offended by it and don't care if someone calls me it either way. I'm not a victim of it. I never said anything like that.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 31, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> --Public service announcement ---
> The youngest boomers are in their mid 50's, not their 30's and 40's. Calling an older person a boomer is like calling anyone else any other offensive or derogatory term.



Boomer is just an age group. Anyone getting mad at hearing that is just mad that when they say something out of touch it gets mocked.

Personally I think it’s funny as hell when someone calls me a boomer. Because it’s also like “yeah, maybe I should consider another opinion”.




WarMachine said:


> Us older folk know what this is;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can cut off the octopus arms with these. And get the extra heart tank.


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## Richter (Sep 1, 2021)

Too bad the multivoicer is designed for single notes tracking, harmonizing chords would be awesome.


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## Wolfhorsky (Sep 1, 2021)

This thread is a messy train wreck. I love it


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## Emperoff (Sep 1, 2021)




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## WarMachine (Sep 1, 2021)




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## lurè (Sep 3, 2021)

So is the plugin any good?

lel


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## Ataraxia2320 (Sep 3, 2021)

I know I said this thread was cancer but my 2c on the whole boomer thing is that while it may not be comparable to a racial slur (which by the way is something c7spheres never said) it is comparable to calling someone a dickhead, a cunt, an asshole etc in this context, except it has an ageist connotation also tacked on.

If you wouldn't go up to someone and call them a dickhead/cunt/asshole out of civility but you are fine with calling someone a boomer then you're playing some mental gymnastics.


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## Emperoff (Sep 3, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> I know I said this thread was cancer but my 2c on the whole boomer thing is that while it may not be comparable to a racial slur (which by the way is something c7spheres never said) it is comparable to calling someone a dickhead, a cunt, an asshole etc in this context, except it has an ageist connotation also tacked on.
> 
> If you wouldn't go up to someone and call them a dickhead/cunt/asshole out of civility but you are fine with calling someone a boomer then you're playing some mental gymnastics.



I have to agree on this. 99% times I hear the word "Millenial" it goes together with mockery of some sort (usually from "Boomers"). It works the same the other way around. When Millenials, Gen Y, Z or whatever call somebody a "Boomer", 99% of the times it's meant to ridiculize them.


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## StevenC (Sep 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I have to agree on this. 99% times I hear the word "Millenial" it goes together with mockery of some sort (usually from "Boomers"). It works the same the other way around. When Millenials, Gen Y, Z or whatever call somebody a "Boomer", 99% of the times it's meant to ridiculize them.


Self-aware wolves. You've got all the pieces, just haven't put them together.

For quite a while, millennial was the boogeyman term for young people are ruining everything. Of course, this wasn't the case because things were ruined when we got here and it was just being applied as a new way of saying "young people these days".

Anyway, being the meta bunch that we are, boomer was coined in reference to this as a way to ridicule anyone using "back in my day" style criticisms of the world today. I've been called a boomer and seen people younger than me be called one. We all realise what it means, but people out here that have never heard of knowyourmeme get bent out of shape because they want to use the internet but not partipate in any of the culture involved.

It's a more succinct way of saying "your lack of nuance or engagement when discussing this topic implies you are set in your ways to the extent only very old people are, so I will reply with the same amount of nuance." This got famous when someone replied to Charlie Kirk (a millennial) who was 24 at the time and is younger than Tim Henson.


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## Richter (Sep 4, 2021)

Yeah the chorus is nice too


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## Emperoff (Sep 4, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> I want creative insults back. I hate this yawn fest canadian slap boxing without punches. Not even attempted ones.
> 
> Everyone acts like such an offended pussy when nobody is even putting any effort into the insults. Soon as I hear "boom-" I know I'm about to hear barely any bitch slaps in the distance as I walk to my much more exciting knitting class.



I'm spanish. Our swearing and insult vocabulary is hilariously massive, so I'm not worried 

Luckily I rarely hear these buzzwords outside the internet anyway.


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## BMFan30 (Sep 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I'm spanish. Our swearing and insult vocabulary is hilariously massive, so I'm not worried
> 
> Luckily I rarely hear these buzzwords outside the internet anyway.


Today I learned I want to be Spanish.


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