# Recommend me a drum set for tech death!



## Psycroptica (Aug 18, 2011)

Let me preface this post with the fact that I know fuck all about drums, so I apologize if I sound like a derptard at any time. Despite my embarrassing lack of technical knowledge, however, I know how to appreciate good drumming in metal. And while I may not know how to drum yet, I refuse to waste money on a cheap starter kit, which I'd eventually upgrade from anyway.

Here's my problem: most new kits I see being sold are very, very basic. I want something substantially bigger than what is currently sold as a package. That is, I want a complete set (think DFH vs. just a 5-piece starter set). And yes, I require two bass drums; I love bass drums.

Just to give you a sense of the sound I like, my favorite drummers include guys like Vitek, Lyle Cooper, Oli Beaudoin, Tommy McKinnon, Patrice Hamelin, Guyot Begin-Benoit, Tony Westermark, Samuel Santiago, and Tomas Haake.

So build me a drum kit! From cymbals to toms to drum pedals to drum heads, I want a complete package made up of what you consider to be the best brands for your money. I'm already very partial to TAMA and Pearl, but any experiences and/or recommendations are welcome!

As far as price is concerned, I know people at Guitar Center and can easily get 40-60% off retail (i.e., at cost), so I'm not too price sensitive. Now, I don't need nor do I even want top of the fucking line (I don't have $5000 to drop on drums); I just want a solid set.

Thanks!


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## ZEBOV (Aug 19, 2011)

2 bass drums vs 1 bass drum with a Pearl Eliminator Demondrive double pedal. The feel of the Demondrive is the same as having 2 pedals (IMO). It's that consistent. Having that pedal with one bass drum is cheaper than having 2 bass drums and 2 pedals. Whether you still opt for 2 bass drums or 1, get Pearl Eliminator Demondrives double pedals. Best fucking pedals I have ever felt. And if you use 2 bass drums, you can convert the slave pedal into a single pedal, and if you decide later on that you only want to carry around 1 bass drum, you can switch it back.
Something to pay attention to is where the mounted toms are mounted. Toms mounted on the bass drum kill the resonance of the bass drum and the toms somehow aren't as resonant when mounted on the bass drum. For the most bass drum resonance, get a bass drum(s) that don't have a mounting bracket at all. This ensures that the bass drums resonates as much as possible and the toms are mounted on some kind of hardware, whether it be cymbal stands or on a rack.
Yamaha is one out of several solid brands. Every Yamaha product I have owned or used, I have never been let down.
Yamaha Yamaha Rock Tour 6-Piece Double Bass Drum Shell Pack: Shop Drums & Percussion & Other Musical Instruments | Musician&#39;s Friend
^That has no snare drum or heads. Stock heads usually suck anyways, and since you're dominantly a metal player, it's better that this doesn't come with a snare so you can pick one separately. I would recommend Pearl Reference snare drums, but they're probably out of your price range. So I recommend this (in the link) or any of the Tama Metalworks snare drums, depending on what you want to spend. For the Tama Metalworks, there are several sizes, so do what you can to compare the sounds of the dimensions.
Tama Artwood Custom 7x13 Maple Snare Drum | Sam Ash Music 1-800-4-SAMASH

Another method to have a large kit is to build it up over time, like starting out with 1 bass drum, a snare, 1 mounted tom, and 2 floor toms, and later on add matching parts, like a 2nd bass drum and 2 or 3 more mounted toms and maybe even another floor tom. That way you can start off with nicer (but fewer) drums, and later on build up a larger and really nice kit, like a 9 piece Pearl Masters or Reference kit. Musician's Friend sells individual drums, so you could start out with a Pearl Masters or Reference bass, mounted tom, and floor tom. Keep the sizes in mind because the less common sizes might not always be available, so if you want an 18" floor tom, start out with that floor tom with the rest of the kit. 
Pearl has the most choices for nice individual drums on Musician's Friend. Tama also has a lot of choices, but only for their lower end Imperialstar and Rockstar kits. So your best choices for acoustic kits are either what I posted at the top or buying pieces over time to have a much nicer kit.
My next post is for cymbals.

EDIT: If you need more help with sizes if you want to go for the 2nd option, let me know.


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## ZEBOV (Aug 19, 2011)

Taste in cymbals is a matter of personal preference. My opinion: I LOVE Sabian and Paiste, and Wuhan's china cymbals. Before you take my word for it with anything I type in this post, try out as many cymbals as you can, including brands that I didn't mention since I haven't heard or tried them all. Dream cymbals is a brand that I have heard of, but I haven't heard any of their cymbals, but I've heard very good things about them. There are also lots of youtube videos of cymbals that were at least decently recorded, especially from youtube channel memphisdrumshop. They have over 5,000 videos. memphisdrumshop&#39;s Channel - YouTube
My favorite ride cymbals EVER are the Paiste 24" Rude Mega Power ride and the Paiste 22" Signature Dark Metal ride. They're pricey cymbals, but you probably won't replace yours nearly as often as any of your other cymbals since rides are mainly played at the top instead of at the edges like a crash. They both have large bells, especially the Rude Mega Power ride, making them easy to hit. Choose either one, or both if you prefer.
For crashes, this really narrows down to NOTHING but personal preference. I have really enjoyed Sabian HHX Stage crashes. They come in 16", 17", and 18".
For china cymbals, I really liked the Wuhan 18" China cymbal, but I think you are likely to want something else since I didn't ride on china cymbals when I was playing acoustic drums. I would sometimes hit it at the same time I'd hit my snare, giving a really explosive sound. It's a great sounding cymbal for a very low price. If you want a darker sounding china, let me know.
For hi-hats, I've used a number of them. My favorites were the Sabian 14" HHX Stage hi-hats, but they were a bit expensive. My second favorite was the Sabian 14" Neil Peart Paragon hi-hats, and they were costed quite a bit less. Hi-hats also narrow down to personal preference, so I still think you should look around more.

Overall, since most of this narrows down to personal preference AND budget, you really need to look around a lot, but those Paiste rides I mentioned earlier are the most amazing cymbals I have ever heard.

Next post is all about drum heads.


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## ZEBOV (Aug 19, 2011)

This is gonna be a hell of a lot easier....
Batter heads
Bass: Aquarian Super Kick 2 or the EMAD 2
Snare: Evans ST or ST Dry
Toms: Evans EC2 clear heads

Resonant heads
Bass: Aquarian Small Hole Regulator or Evans EMAD
Snare: Evans Hazy 300 
Toms: Evans Resonant Glass.


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## cwhitey2 (Aug 19, 2011)

My only thing i have against the 2 bass drums, is tuning them...you will not get them to sound exactly the same. But if that's what you are shooting for then do it up.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Aug 19, 2011)

To start, this thread makes me cringe a little.
Lets take this one step at a time. 

First off: What _IS_ your budget? That is the primary concern. 



Psycroptica said:


> I refuse to waste money on a cheap starter kit, which I'd eventually upgrade from anyway.
> 
> Here's my problem: most new kits I see being sold are very, very basic. I want something substantially bigger than what is currently sold as a package. That is, I want a complete set (think DFH vs. just a 5-piece starter set). And yes, I require two bass drums; I love bass drums.



I understand your logic in not wanting to buy a starter kit, but what if you end up not liking drums? its not for everyone. Or what if you lose time to practice and play?
Just some things to consider.

Also, you DO NOT _need_ two bass drums. You can love them all you want, and want 80 on one kit, but the practical value of a single bass, with double pedal is factored into a few things.

1. Price
2. Space (you wont believe how much space another bass drum eats up, its highly inconvenient, i know, i used to have the same ideas as you when i started playing)
3. Tuning, you will never be able to match bass drum tunings.



Psycroptica said:


> Just to give you a sense of the sound I like, my favorite drummers include guys like Vitek, Lyle Cooper, Oli Beaudoin, Tommy McKinnon, Patrice Hamelin, Guyot Begin-Benoit, Tony Westermark, Samuel Santiago, and Tomas Haake.



Sound, or drumming? Honestly, neither are going to matter since your starting off, you wont be able to get their sound (that takes studio work my friend)
and you wont be able to do what they do right away.

Though its good to have influences, even though i dont know most of those (Except Sam Santiago! hung out with him and the rest of Gorod once when they were in the states, awesome guys!) Tommy, and Lyle are great too.



Psycroptica said:


> So build me a drum kit! From cymbals to toms to drum pedals to drum heads, I want a complete package made up of what you consider to be the best brands for your money. I'm already very partial to TAMA and Pearl, but any experiences and/or recommendations are welcome!



Tama and pearl are great chocies, being that you dont want a "beginner kit"
get a Pearl Visions, easily available and affordable. Good hardware, great drums. Cant beat it really.



ZEBOV said:


> The feel of the Demondrive is the same as having 2 pedals (IMO). It's that consistent....... And if you use 2 bass drums, you can convert the slave pedal into a single pedal, and if you decide later on that you only want to carry around 1 bass drum, you can switch it back.



Your idea of "why spend cheap when gonna upgrade later" should be applied the most here. Cheap pedals suck, and switching pedals sucks more, because you get used to what you are using.
Pearl's DD pedals are incredible, and have great resale value.



ZEBOV said:


> Something to pay attention to is where the mounted toms are mounted. Toms mounted on the bass drum kill the resonance of the bass drum and the toms somehow aren't as resonant when mounted on the bass drum. For the most bass drum resonance, get a bass drum(s) that don't have a mounting bracket at all. This ensures that the bass drums resonates as much as possible and the toms are mounted on some kind of hardware, whether it be cymbal stands or on a rack.



This isnt really that big of a deal, it doesnt disrupt resonance as much as you think.
Being in the OP's positions it shouldnt be that big of a concern regardless.



ZEBOV said:


> Another method to have a large kit is to build it up over time, like starting out with 1 bass drum, a snare, 1 mounted tom, and 2 floor toms, and later on add matching parts, like a 2nd bass drum and 2 or 3 more mounted toms and maybe even another floor tom. That way you can start off with nicer (but fewer) drums, and later on build up a larger and really nice kit, like a 9 piece Pearl Masters or Reference kit.



Looking at the OP, I dont think thats what he's going for.
And he really doesnt need a Masters or Reference kit to start with, thats going to be breaking the bank, and highly un-necessary.



ZEBOV said:


> Taste in cymbals is a matter of personal preference.... try out as many cymbals as you can, including brands that I didn't mention since I haven't heard or tried them all. D
> 
> Overall, since most of this narrows down to personal preference AND budget, you really need to look around a lot



+1 to this. Go out, try some, do research, find what you like.



ZEBOV said:


> This is gonna be a hell of a lot easier....
> Batter heads
> Bass: Aquarian Super Kick 2 or the EMAD 2
> Snare: Evans ST or ST Dry
> ...



Thats all preference.

Personally, I'm a diehard Evans user, I used to hang with remo, untill they changed their coating.

This is harder to decide on because you cant test out many heads usually.
Best bet: go to guitar center, or a store that lets you play kits, and try what they have set up.

Personally, I'm all about the coated EC's for toms, and snares. Emad on the Bass.

@ZEBOV: dude your posts are definitely tl;dr worthy, most people cbf to read that amount. just some advice

@Psycroptica: Go play some kits, try some cymbals, try some heads, try some sticks, try some pedals.
Post the budget you're looking at, and more advice can be administered!


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## ZEBOV (Aug 19, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> This isnt really that big of a deal, it doesnt disrupt resonance as much as you think.



I've heard quite a difference as a live sound engineer. I've had the pleasure of comparing it on the same kit. I put the toms on the bass drum mount and tested the bass and toms, and then I put the toms on a rack and took the mounting hardware off the bass drum. It sounded much better that way.

And as for the heads, I used a Remo Powersonic, Evans G2 coated tom heads, and an Aquarian Hi Energy snare head (all batter). My recommendations come from seeing and hearing other people use many different kinds of heads on stage. The unprocessed sound of what I recommended is better than most other heads I've heard, and they're great for metal too.


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## Psycroptica (Aug 19, 2011)

ZEBOV: Holy shit, thank you for all your recommendations and info. I learned quite a bit just from reading your posts.



> I understand your logic in not wanting to buy a starter kit, but what if you end up not liking drums? its not for everyone. Or what if you lose time to practice and play?



I applied the same logic to guitar. I'm not afraid to take a leap with my money. My first guitar was $400+ even though I never actually played very much. My boyfriend recommended that I start with a cheapie low-end guitar like he did, but I refused because I wanted something that sounded and played better and could eventually be re-sold. That was 3 years ago, and to this day, I still play guitar (and have upgraded to an $800 one and am expecting a semi-custom Agile soon).

I'm actually a bigger fan of drums than I am of guitar (I pay attention more to drums in music--they often determine whether or not I like a band). That's why I expect to enjoy drumming; I already naturally "drum" along whenever I listen to music. Why not get an actual kit? Plus, I can utilize an employee discount at GC, so it would be dumb to _not_ purchase something of good quality. If, for some reason, I end up not liking the drums, I can always re-sell and most likely break even.

As far as my budget is concerned, I'm okay with dropping $1000-1500. I figure if that can buy a decent custom guitar, then it can buy an equally good drum set (with my discount, of course).


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## ShadowFactoryX (Aug 19, 2011)

if you're getting good pedals, thats going to eat up a good 20-25% of your budget.

have you played any kits at work? if so, let us know what you liked
if not, go play some, then relay the info


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## the hittmann (Aug 19, 2011)

As someone who has been playing drums for most of his life, and is endorsed. I can say listen to the post above. Dont buy a huge kit. I used to always love to play a big kit and the more and more i play the smaller i like my kit. I play the likes of periphery, animals as leaders, threat signal, ect.. on a 4 pc kit!!!! I would say for you go for a 5pc tama starclassic or take the plunge and get a dw. As for pedals i have played every pedal under the sun, i have very good feet btw(can hit 240bpm) I have played the demon drive, speed cobra, axis, trick, you name it. The pedal i have always come back to is the eliminator with the belt. Virgil donati uses it, grant collins does(some of the most technical feet) and it is absolutely phenomenal. Its cheaper and you are too inexperienced(no offense) to notice a huge difference. Thats my 2 cents.


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## Steve08 (Aug 21, 2011)

Psycroptica said:


> ZEBOV: Holy shit, thank you for all your recommendations and info. I learned quite a bit just from reading your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something to keep in mind is that what kit you play doesn't really matter when it comes to the genre you're playing, but how you tune the heads and what heads you use. So with that in mind I'd recommend getting a kit for about maybe, I dunno, $800ish, like a Mapex Meridian or Tama Silverstar, though if you get a significant discount it'd be quite a bit cheaper than that, of course... I know the Meridians also have a "go large" pack that includes two extra toms and another bass drum so you could get a kit more or less the size of the one in DKFH. Other good ones around that price point would be a Yamaha Stage Custom, Pearl Vision, Gretsch Catalina, and Crush Chameleon.

Head-wise you're going to probably want something darker, though it depends obviously... I like Evans personally, so for snare heads I'd recommend the ST, Onyx, Hybrid (very expensive but wicked awesome), or the Power Center for a brighter sound. Tom-wise, the Evans G2 (coated or clear, doesn't matter), EC2, and the Hydraulic (a bit of an acquired taste) are all worthy. The EMAD, EMAD Onyx, and EQ2 are all good. Concerning resonant heads, just +1 to everything ZEBOV said.

With a set-up as large as you want (I'm assuming 3 rack toms + a lot of cymbals), I would also highly encourage getting a rack and not stands, mostly because mounting a lot of toms and cymbals is utterly abysmal without a rack (in my opinion, anyway). Gibraltar makes a double bass rack for $340 which suit your needs, though you'll also want enough multi-clamps/cymbal booms/tom arms/etc. to mount everything (excluding floor toms) off it. If you decide to get a rack at all, it'd be up to you to figure out exactly how much of that to get, and so on, though you could expect to spend $200-400 for stuff to mount a lot of things on a rack.

As for pedals, I'd second the recommendation for Pearl Demon Drives-- they have much more power compared to say, Axis pedals and are useful for things other than speed, but have the same fast feeling. A DD single pedal retails for about $300.

Concerning cymbals, most are suitable for multiple kinds of music-- there aren't any cymbals that will only be good for metal (except for big bell rides basically) for the most part, and every company makes good cymbals, so which ones you'll want to get depend entirely on your own taste. My favorite is Meinl personally, so I would recommend those, however as I said, Zildjian, Paiste, Sabian all make good stuff, as well as lesser known brands like TRX, Soultone, Dream, Saluda, Turk Masters, etc. Just try as many as possible.

I will say since it seems like you only want to play death metal, you might as well get a ride like a Zildjian Z3 Mega Bell, Sabian HH Power Bell, Meinl Soundcaster Custom Mega Bell or Paiste Eclipse.

Lastly, this might sound kind of negative and like I'm trying to discourage you, but learning to play death metal well takes at least two years of focused, rewarding practice. Merely bashing on the kit is not enough to develop playing that is fast, powerful, tight, and clean, especially for double bass drumming. If you spend a whole bunch of money, and expect to be able to play something as basic as a single stroke roll at a moderate tempo (or any beats derived from a single stroke roll, like skank beats or the traditional blast) right away, you are going to be sorely disappointed.


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## Necris (Aug 21, 2011)

Psycroptica said:


> As far as my budget is concerned, I'm okay with dropping $1000-1500.



Even with your discount you may go beyond that price range once you factor in cymbals and hardware on top of the shells, heads, foot pedals, etc.


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