# New 8 string build! (pics)



## awesomeaustin (May 4, 2009)

Completed pics can be seen on page 8

--------------------------------
So I started an 8 string build a week ago, 30" scale, 24 fret flamed maple bound ebony fretboard, swamp ash body, figured walnut top. Got my carbon fiber reinforcement rods on order, as well as a BKP MM8 on the way for this bad boy. Now on to the pics:

Swamp Ash body blank






Walnut top





Top and body glued and body cut out





Bevels carved





Hippie sandwich neck, 20 year old 4A flamed maple/walnut/flamed maple/walnut/ same 4a flamed maple











and a cute kitten that lives under the school





not part of the guitar but still cool.
more pics to come


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## Æxitosus (May 4, 2009)

looks kinda like an Agile Intrepid...

nifty cat.


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## tian (May 4, 2009)

My high school had cats living under it too... 

That guitar looks like it's going to be amazing. I'm really liking the bevels. The neck looks sick to.


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## awesomeaustin (May 4, 2009)

&#198;xitosus;1491942 said:


> looks kinda like an Agile Intrepid...
> 
> nifty cat.



I kinda feared that it would, I really like the little flare out on the back.


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## Æxitosus (May 4, 2009)

awesomeaustin said:


> I kinda feared that it would, I really like the little flare out on the back.


first thing that came to mind was "is this Kurt?"
guess not...oh well, I don't think there are copyright laws against guitar shapes...if there were, Gibson would have a shitload of money (on top of what they already have)


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## somn (May 4, 2009)

Cool 8 man and nice top it looks like a very cool agile


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## Apophis (May 4, 2009)

so far it looks just great 

waiting for updates soon


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## awesomeaustin (May 4, 2009)

Apophis said:


> so far it looks just great
> 
> waiting for updates soon


Thanks that means alot coming from you


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## leftyguitarjoe (May 4, 2009)

Very cool man!! I only wish I could build my own guitar.


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## hanachanmaru (May 4, 2009)

Nice Swamp ash and walnut top !! nice engineering too


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## Mattmc74 (May 4, 2009)

Looks great so far. I really dig that top!


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## phaeded0ut (May 4, 2009)

Cute kitteh! Very pretty woods, and rather like the rounder body edges, too. Are you going to do more carving on the sides and tops?


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## Nylis (May 4, 2009)

Awww yeah! looks so good! giving me some needed motivation for my upcoming build .


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## hufschmid (May 4, 2009)

Looks very cool


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## bhh1989 (May 4, 2009)

Awesome looking build. Did you just use a rasp and sandpaper to round those edges?


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## thinkpad20 (May 4, 2009)

Looks excellent! I'm going to be building my first guitar ever (except the neck) starting in about a week... I'm stoked!

How do you do those contours? What tools?


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## Erick Kroenen (May 4, 2009)

what kind of brige.. for this baby...


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## awesomeaustin (May 4, 2009)

i did the contours with a rasp and file. gonna put a hipshot bridge on it with hipshot locking tuners. im also gonna be using a neckjoint that i saw jesse used on catalyst_childs 8 string. should be sweet!


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## Ben.Last (May 4, 2009)

The figuring on that top is effing sick. Love it. I don't think it looks like the Intrepid apart from the fact that it's got the little flared bit on the back. It's got it's own character.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 5, 2009)

Kitties make everything better. 

Oh and nice axe btw.


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## awesomeaustin (May 6, 2009)

UPDATE:
routed the neck pocket today and here is the almost finished neck heel:





after I took the pic, I carved the cut-out on the back of the lower horn and used a roundover bit to get a really comfy area for my palm to go.

And now that I dont have all that waste wood there I finished with carving the front.





and I got the Headstock cut out:






I get my carbon fiber reinforcement rods tomorrow form The Graphite Store, once I get those in, I can glue the fretboard on and carve the neck, but probably wont get that done until thursday.

more updates to come!


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## Andrew_B (May 6, 2009)

looks good man

was that a pre cut fretboard?
(didnt know they did them big enough for 8's)


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## somn (May 6, 2009)

That's the same headstock shape I had in my head for my build you man got taste LOL


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## Andrew_B (May 6, 2009)

looks like a sherman headstock.....
just no curve on the tip, and it tapers more towards the tip....


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## daemon barbeque (May 6, 2009)

it's getting better and better. I like the heel!


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## Chris (May 6, 2009)




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## HighGain510 (May 6, 2009)

Andrew_B said:


> looks like a sherman headstock.....
> just no curve on the tip, and it tapers more towards the tip....



There are several companies with headstocks similar to that (Schecter has been doing that style headstock for ages ), I don't think it's THAT much alike.

Looks great man, that figured walnut is badass!


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## awesomeaustin (May 6, 2009)

Andrew_B said:


> looks good man
> 
> was that a pre cut fretboard?
> (didnt know they did them big enough for 8's)



No, I cut it out and slotted it myself as well as bound it.

I was originally going for a headstock extremely similar to Sherman's, I emailed and asked him if he thought it was too close to his and he said yeah, so I changed it a bit


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## Andrew_B (May 6, 2009)

slotted and bound... sweet!

with an 8 string... theres not much else you can do in regards to headstocks....
they are all more or less the same,
to have straight as possible string pull as far as i can see....


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## awesomeaustin (May 6, 2009)

Andrew_B said:


> to have straight as possible string pull



Thats the whole reason for the headstock shape, at least for me


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## msherman (May 6, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> There are several companies with headstocks similar to that (Schecter has been doing that style headstock for ages ), I don't think it's THAT much alike.
> 
> Looks great man, that figured walnut is badass!



I'd bet that if someone was ripping Ron Thorn's headstock design, you would have more to say about it.

All I know is people seem to be pretty cavalier on these boards when it comes to ripping off small luthier's trademarks.


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## vansinn (May 6, 2009)

To quote Andrew/awesomeaustin: unless going headless, with/without a decor head design..
It's looking good man, lovely woods, interesting cutaway shapes  looking forward to see more.


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## HighGain510 (May 6, 2009)

msherman said:


> I'd bet that if someone was ripping Ron Thorn's headstock design, you would have more to say about it.
> 
> All I know is people seem to be pretty cavalier on these boards when it comes to ripping off small luthier's trademarks.



Just curious but how long have you been using that headstock style Mike? I haven't seen much of your custom stuff pre-Letchford on here or anywhere else. Have you used it longer than Schecter, because I know they've had a headstock that they've been using for a long time that yours seems quite close to as well. I'm not accusing you of stealing their design nor am I calling you out, I'm just saying since you're getting a bit defensive.  I would think it was odd if someone used Ron's headstock design but to get close to his you would pretty much have to be ripping it straight off as anything similar without the same shape would look pretty odd.  Not looking to pick a fight with you as I don't really care either way, I just remember you saying that Rondo was too close so they had to change it but this guy's headstock seems fairly generic and you're claiming it's too close to yours still? The tip is rounded on his, maybe it's too close to a Carvin?!  



Andrew_B said:


> with an 8 string... theres not much else you can do in regards to headstocks....
> they are all more or less the same,
> to have straight as possible string pull as far as i can see....



That's what I'm saying. There's not a whole lot you can do with those headstocks that hasn't been done or isn't similar to something else if you want straight string pull.


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## Andrew_B (May 6, 2009)

yea...
i tried to come up with my own headstock designs for months.....

i basically said ... screw it... and went with a modified ESP style headstock for my 6 and 7inline headstocks,
and for my 3/3 and bass headstock i went with one that i drew to be a better more pointy version of the headstock on a bass i have had for many years....



and yes Mr Sherman, people on these forums seem to like to knock off designs ... 
its sad...
to get ideas from a design... now thats not bad....
but copying is pretty lame...


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## somn (May 6, 2009)

i saw this from miles away gezzz


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## Andrew_B (May 6, 2009)

saw what exactly?

we are having a discussion on design and copying others ideas 

nothing wrong with that....

if it was out of line in any way im sure a mod or the thread starter would have asked for it to stop ...

imo theres nothing wrong with the discussion, 
and it might just help other potential instrument builders to understand the points that have been addressed above 

if the thread starter was being directly targeted and abused.... then we could have a problem....
but hes not... just pointing things out


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 6, 2009)

Yeah all headstock designs are so similar to try to make anything way out there would probably just look bad and not be very functional.

When I got my first guitar (ibanez with a reverse headstock) my friend thought his schecter and my ibanez had the same headstock. Admittedly a reverse ibanez headstock sitting right next to a schecter headstock look extremely similar. To complain about the designs would be silly xD

Compare this to that sherman picture and its a perfect mirror. (Though I'd take the sherman any day before I would consider that)






Sorry I just wanted to rant too.

Anyway... guitars still looking badass!!! I expect update pictures by tomorrow!!!


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## msherman (May 6, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> Just curious but how long have you been using that headstock style Mike? I haven't seen much of your custom stuff pre-Letchford on here or anywhere else. Have you used it longer than Schecter, because I know they've had a headstock that they've been using for a long time that yours seems quite close to as well. I'm not accusing you of stealing their design nor am I calling you out, I'm just saying since you're getting a bit defensive.  I would think it was odd if someone used Ron's headstock design but to get close to his you would pretty much have to be ripping it straight off as anything similar without the same shape would look pretty odd.  Not looking to pick a fight with you as I don't really care either way, I just remember you saying that Rondo was too close so they had to change it but this guy's headstock seems fairly generic and you're claiming it's too close to yours still? The tip is rounded on his, maybe it's too close to a Carvin?!
> 
> 
> Pre `80 Matt. In fact, the early rendition of the current headstock was more similar to Schecter (long before they became a house hold name).
> ...



Pre `80 Matt. In fact, the early rendition of the current headstock was more similar to Schecter (long before they became a house hold name).

I built my first 8 string back in `82 with the current H/S design utilizing strait string pull.
Have a look at the Washburn Bantam bass that I designed, you will also see a similarity, which was another tweak to the headstock design so it didn't conflict with my guitars.
Maybe you should look outside of SS and "pre-Letchford" before you call me out as I have been in this buisness and using that design since you were a toddler (probably longer)


Now, Austin is attending R-V school of luthiery to become a Luthier, which I think is great.
Austin emailed me asking if he could use the headstock design and if I would be willing to issue "Licenses" to use the design, and included this pic in the email.




Of course I'm going to decline as my current H/S is a "trademark" of Sherman Guitars, and that clearly infringes on it.
I don't know of any other luthier that wouldn't get "defensive" on something like this.

Sure, I don't post every guitar I make on these forums. I only post guitars that customers start threads on them, so it may seem to you that my current H/S design is new, but I assure you that I have been using over 25 now.

To say that there is only so much you can do with headstocks when utilizing strait string pull is absolute hogwash. Be creative, and open your mind to new design concepts instead of changing one line by 1/4" on someone elses trademark, and calling it your own.


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## hufschmid (May 6, 2009)

Pic of a 6 string i built 6 years ago before even hearing of some of the builders in here...

I'm still going to make an 8 string version of this headstock in the futur 

Headstocks dont need to be straight pull, this one is not and works great, like Mike says be creative


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## CentaurPorn (May 6, 2009)

Here is a little design I am working on. Some say it looks a little too much like The Boss but I do not see it.



I have way too much fucking work to do today as you can see...


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## msherman (May 6, 2009)

^


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## HighGain510 (May 6, 2009)

Like I said, I wasn't calling you out (in fact, those were my exact words ), it was purely out of curiosity Mike.  The only reason I said "pre-letchford" was that was the first guitar I was introduced to in terms of your custom work, hadn't seen a ton of your guitars (I saw the basses on your previous site but not as many guitars) so I was wondering how long you had used the headstock design you do currently was all.  Again, I know you've been building for a long time so I'm not claiming you hadn't created that design, just that I've seen a lot of other major companies using similar designs, and continuing to use those designs, so I was genuinely curious. The issue with straight string pull (on a non-locking design) is that there's only so many places you can position the tuners and that definitely limits some of your general shaping/positioning options without it getting fugly!


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## S-O (May 6, 2009)

IMO, as long as the guitar/bass is not being sold, and is purely for personal use, fuck copy right laws. But, if it is for commercial production, then you ought to be careful. Being simialr is fine, BM's headstock is simialr to Parker's headstock, but are not copies of the other.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 6, 2009)

msherman said:


> Have a look at the Washburn Bantam bass that I designed,



 I just looked that thing up... the body... the lower cutaway...







If thats it than that body design is almost identical to how I want the custom guitar in my head to be.

genius!


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## alecisonfire (May 6, 2009)

S-O said:


> IMO, as long as the guitar/bass is not being sold, and is purely for personal use, fuck copy right laws. But, if it is for commercial production, then you ought to be careful.


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## AeonSolus (May 6, 2009)

alecisonfire said:


>



I Second the , and in my opinion, a headstock is just a headstock, same with body shapes..yada,yada,yada...what really valuable in a luthier's work is the dedication and craftmanship they put on their instruments, not the aesthetics.


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## Chris (May 6, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> That's what I'm saying. There's not a whole lot you can do with those headstocks that hasn't been done or isn't similar to something else if you want straight string pull.



You're out of your mind. You need 8 strings with straight pull, and every bit of wood that surrounds it is completely up to the builder. Tracing a Sherman headstock and trimming the angles down a little bit isn't "just doing what needs to be done", it's like Vanilla Ice saying that he wrote Under Pressure. 

Edit: @OP: The rest looks great man, use that same creativity and come up with something of your own and you'll have a solid winner.


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## Pauly (May 7, 2009)

My 2cents = make the bottom carves of the headstock less symmetrical and more of a sweep at the tip and you'll have something different looking!


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## technomancer (May 7, 2009)

What Pauly said. You could also shorten the sweep out from the base to where the tuners are.

Also, Mike what's the filing information on the trademark for you headstock design, I can't seem to find it while poking around with a trademark search? I'm just curious since you brought up the trademark issue.


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## HighGain510 (May 7, 2009)

Chris said:


> You're out of your mind. You need 8 strings with straight pull, and every bit of wood that surrounds it is completely up to the builder. Tracing a Sherman headstock and trimming the angles down a little bit isn't "just doing what needs to be done", it's like Vanilla Ice saying that he wrote Under Pressure.
> 
> Edit: @OP: The rest looks great man, use that same creativity and come up with something of your own and you'll have a solid winner.



Dude there are so many big-name folks out there with "similar" headstocks that picking on this guy for having something similar (it's not even identical FFS!) and then continuing to attack me on it is just lame man. I don't have a horse in this race so I could care less who has a similar headstock to whom but it's not identical and he's not selling it nor is he advertising it as a Sherman so there's really no way someone would mistake his guitar for a Sherman. 


Also just an FYI since you guys brought it up, Kraken guitars has copied Ron's design already (they used a "J" instead of his "T" logo too) so I have seen it and I didn't get bent out of shape about it. It was comically poorly-done IMO but since I'm not the builder I'm did not taking offense. I don't see anyone mistaking that guitar for something Ron built, nor do I see this gent's design being mistaken for Mike's work.


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## Nylis (May 7, 2009)

msherman said:


> ^



Is the headstock trademarked?


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## Justin Bailey (May 7, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> Also just an FYI since you guys brought it up, Kraken guitars has copied Ron's design already (they used a "J" instead of his "T" logo too) so I have seen it and I didn't get bent out of shape about it. It was comically poorly-done IMO but since I'm not the builder I'm did not taking offense. I don't see anyone mistaking that guitar for something Ron built, nor do I see this gent's design being mistaken for Mike's work.



That was NNG guitars that did the thorn copy, and despite what you may think they are not just cheap imitations. Their PRS clones are supposed to be top notch, and are pretty well respected. But they don't do out right clones anymore.


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## splinter8451 (May 7, 2009)

I think everyone needs to calm down about this trademark stuff and just worry about this guys nice looking build he is working on. He is not making it to sell and start his own business using this headstock design (that pretty much everyone company uses a variation of anyways) so lets calm it down in here haha.

But on topic, I am loving the look of that walnut top right now, looks like a samurai warriors helmet and face XD. Pretty sweet, when I finally get around to building a guitar I am definitely looking for a nice piece of walnut for the top. +1 on your wood choice dude.

I am looking forward to more pics!


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## HighGain510 (May 7, 2009)

Justin Bailey said:


> That was NNG guitars that did the thorn copy, and despite what you may think they are not just cheap imitations. Their PRS clones are supposed to be top notch, and are pretty well respected. But they don't do out right clones anymore.



Oh I could have sworn it was Kraken.  Whomever did the Thorn rip-off didn't do a great job, the inlay work was awful (I think the headstock had a little owl on it rather than the monster-detailed parrots inlay version that Ron did) and the backwards "T" that looked like a "J" was priceless.  Either way, the final pictures of it made it look cheap, regardless of who built it. I'll have to see if I can dig up some pictures of it later, it was pretty funny actually.


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## phaeded0ut (May 7, 2009)

Rather looking forward to seeing more pictures of the neck and body joint, myself. Thanks again for sharing.


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## HighGain510 (May 7, 2009)

awesomeaustin said:


>



When I look at that picture I see a Nordic dude with braided hair and a helmet with horns!


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## coreysMonster (May 7, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> When I look at that picture I see a Nordic dude with braided hair and a helmet with horns!



holy crap, so do I!! :O


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## bostjan (May 7, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> When I look at that picture I see a Nordic dude with braided hair and a helmet with horns!



 

RE: Headstock...

There are plenty of headstock designs one could dream up with straight strings; however, I can see how it *might* be possible to think of a design and have it come out almost exactly like someone elses. I don't know if you were "inspired" by the Sherman or not, but the pictures shown are not exactly the most definable headstock shapes, so I'm just sayin' that I can see how it could happen, and in making a one-off guitar for oneself, there'd be little motivation to check copyrights and trademarks on each aspect of the instrument.


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## HighGain510 (May 7, 2009)

Holy shit Bostjan is back!!!    Did you ever get my message on myspace a while back bro? Glad to see you back on here!


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## technomancer (May 7, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> When I look at that picture I see a Nordic dude with braided hair and a helmet with horns!





Bostjan


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## Raoul Duke (May 7, 2009)

Ok this thread seems to have gotten off the rails, back to this guitar that is being built! 

Really liking the guitar dude, the walnut top is definitely very sexy and the neck looks like it was made very well. The bare knuckle in that thing is going to sound sick, with the ash body it should sound very bright and punchy . The body shape im really digging too, i like how the top horn sits in relation to the bottom one, seems a little bit longer than people usually do which is .

As for the headstock (do i dare go there? ). Dont worry about it dude, yes it is similar to other luthiers headstocks and i can understand them being a little bit  about the whole thing. At the end of the day though, you're not selling this guitar or planning on mass producing guitars like this so you're not really "stealing" someone elses business, so this one guitar wont really affect them a great deal


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## awesomeaustin (May 7, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words guys, I am in the process of changing the headstock more to kinda along the lines of what Pauly said. 

Time for an update:
I had a but of bad luck today with gluing the fretboard on. After the initial gluing, the fretboard shifted 1/32" off center and off the neck, as a result I had to pull of fretboard and in the end was too bent to revive. So I got a new piece of Ebony (with a way cooler grain!) and will hopefully get it sanded, slotted, bound, and maybe glued on the neck tomorrow. That way I can carve the neck this weekend or Monday. I got some of my hardware today, the pots, knobs, switches, all that jazz.; The only things I'm missing are the bridge,tuners, and pickup (BKP Miracle Man) which should be in soon from Zimbloth. I take a pic of the new piece of Ebony tomorrow when it is sanded and cut.


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## Andrew_B (May 8, 2009)

damn...

did you taper the neck and fretboard before gluing them together?

if your doing it like that, you may want to use the pin method....

you can either drill 2-4 holes along the fretboard, either in the slots of where your inlays will cover....

im sure if you google it you will get some kind of tutorial


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## awesomeaustin (May 8, 2009)

I did the pin method but only did two, thinkin i should try 3 this next time. I ony tapered the neck to fit in the neck. hopefully I can get this new piece done and glued today


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## Andrew_B (May 8, 2009)

how the hell did you manage to get it off centre if you used pins!!!! lol

what clamps are you using?
are you useing a "protector block" between the clamps and fretboard?


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## awesomeaustin (May 8, 2009)

I dont know hat happened, thats the fucked up thing, I registered it, check the centerline, it was perfect, glued it on and whoosh, off center. I was using cam clamps and a caul


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## Andrew_B (May 10, 2009)

thats wierd man....
lol
better luck on the next one


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## swayman (May 10, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> When I look at that picture I see a Nordic dude with braided hair and a helmet with horns!



Making it the most metal guitar EVAAAR!!!


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## Ben.Last (May 10, 2009)

I think it actually looks kind of like some demonic rib cage. Or sort of like that painting from "Red Dragon"


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## Broken (May 11, 2009)

Whoa! ya... I'm seeing the I just can't comprehend, but it look like some that is very metal...nice!


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## awesomeaustin (Jul 27, 2009)

Mega bump! 
but for a good reason, Its finally done! Heres some pics. I would go outside and take some but its 110 degrees outside and FUCK THAT! maybe when it cools down in two months I might but here are some poorly lit inside pics.


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## maliciousteve (Jul 27, 2009)

that is beutiful. The flame on that neck is to die for.


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## hufschmid (Jul 27, 2009)

awesome work!


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## s_k_mullins (Jul 27, 2009)

Looks fuckin killer!! Awesome work!


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## cddragon (Jul 27, 2009)

Yummy!!! I love the shape and only thing I dislike is the lack of neck pickup 
Great work man!


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## TimSE (Jul 27, 2009)

mega shit!


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## willybman (Jul 28, 2009)

HOLY HELL. U did it. my dream guitar!


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## darren (Jul 28, 2009)

Æxitosus;1491951 said:


> I don't think there are copyright laws against guitar shapes...if there were, Gibson would have a shitload of money (on top of what they already have)



Guitar shapes can be registered as "design patents" in the U.S. and "Industrial Designs" elsewhere. But they have to be registered and protected before they're shown in public.

Regardless, it's not cool to steal other people's design work.


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## ralphy1976 (Jul 28, 2009)

that's pretty badass man!!! kudos for doing it yourself!!!


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## hotrodded_wooden_ mill (Jul 28, 2009)

maliciousteve said:


> that is beutiful. The flame on that neck is to die for.



+ 1

That's a cool instrument


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## awesomeaustin (Jul 28, 2009)

thanks for the kind words guys.


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 28, 2009)

the headstock doesn´t look like a sherman to me.

nice guitar, man! i would´ve gone even further with the top shape, so that it really accentuates the whole shape of the guitar, like it does in the waist of the guitar.


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## daemon barbeque (Jul 28, 2009)

tha's just awesome man! the headstock might be not the most original thing, but it's not a rip-off either!


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## awesomeaustin (Jul 28, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> the headstock doesn´t look like a sherman to me.
> 
> nice guitar, man! i would´ve gone even further with the top shape, so that it really accentuates the whole shape of the guitar, like it does in the waist of the guitar.



I've though about it. and i can easily do that, as the finish was a wipe-on. so I can sand off the finish and reapply very easily.


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## Apophis (Jul 28, 2009)

looks awesome


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## Ironberry (Jul 29, 2009)

Looks nice!


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