# Help me pick a new bass - Fender Jazz V vs Carvin x64



## TedEH (Jun 24, 2015)

So here's the situation:

Current bass is an Ltd b416sm. The neck on it is splitting along the stripes in the back (the woods/glues separating, I guess?), which I think is repairable, and I might do that later, but it's also a good excuse for a new bass. It's also in need of some fretwork, etc., but that's beside the point. I want something new because why not.

I'm super picky about basses though. I can pick up any guitar and it's no problem, but a lot of basses just "feel" wrong to me. I don't like Ibanez btb for example, even though those seem to be pretty popular. Maybe if I re-did the setup it'd be alright, but they just don't speak to me. I keep coming back to Ibanez though, 'cause they have some easy-to-find 6ers, and I'd prefer to stick with a 6 if I can.

I discovered recently though that I really like the sound of Jazz basses though. Especially the Geddy signature, which I really like as a whole, but I don't need a 4 string. If I needed a 4 string, I'd just get the Geddy bass and be done with it, but that's not an option. After trying one of those in a store a while ago and being amazed, I decided it was worth while looking into Jazz basses and tried a bunch of them but couldn't find one that felt right.

I've also been thinking about going the Carvin route for a while, but never pulled the trigger. I really like the look of the example x64 with the walnut top, and from what I can tell this is the closest I can get to the Ltd I've already got without just getting another Ltd (I don't want another Ltd), so I feel like it would "fit" me really well, take less time to get used to, I don't have to lose the extra string etc.

Over the weekend I went into a couple of music stores for small things and spent some time picking up random basses. I grabbed a Squire Jazz V... nope. Grabbed a Mexican Fender version of the same thing... good in general, but the B string feels worse than the Squire. Then I picked up an American Jazz V, and it's the first "American" Fender I've tried- FINALLY a Fender Jazz V that feels right- but it's over $2500, and I can't justify that for a Fender. Fast forward to another music store though, and they said they have one in another location they can bring for me to try- American Standard Jazz V, white, usually $1800 on sale for $1300. I'm gonna try it when they call me. If it's as good as the super expensive one was, maybe they can convince me...

But I still want the Carvin.  Or do I want just the Fender? Or do I want both?

Thoughts?

Sidenote- this is at least one thing I'd be using the bass for:
https://soundcloud.com/signs-of-chaos/no-guilt-preproduction-demo


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## TedEH (Jun 24, 2015)

Some alternatives I just thought of:

- Maybe Carvin would put single coils in the x64? That would sound a little more Jazz-bass ish right?

- What about the Vanquish? They don't look as nice, but there's lots of good sounding demos out there in internetland.


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## gingerman (Jun 25, 2015)

Carvin WOULD put single coils in x64. If not in the web builder, then surely via placing the order by phone.


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## TedEH (Jun 25, 2015)

I suspected it was likely an option if I call, which I assume is the recommended way to order anyway. The bigger question becomes: will the x64 be able to get anywhere near the J bass sound with those single coils in it? I'm not expecting miracles, just want to be in the ballpark. I think I want to avoid the split coils in the examples based on not being as much of a fan of the P sound, and I'm used to the EMGs in my Ltd but they don't have that J sound at all to my ears. I feel like the humbuckers might be too similar to what I have already. But at the same time, there's supposed to be a switch to let you play in a "passive" mode, so maybe that can get part way there? Gaaaah who knows. 

Part of my thinking is that if I want the J bass sound, I should just get a J bass and be done with it, and save up for the Carvin later. But if the Carvin can get that sound too, then it's the better overall option right?

I'm supposed to get a call when the Jazz comes in for me to try. Maybe it'll suck and that'll answer my questions for me.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 25, 2015)

Why not a Carvin J-Bass?


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## TedEH (Jun 25, 2015)

I hadn't thought of that, but mostly 'cause I don't think they make 6ers. That and I like the looks of the x64. I use a 6 string with the band, so ideally that's what I should be going for so I don't have to alter any of the songs. I just happen to like the sound of the J, and I don't know what that sound comes from. Is it the pickups? Is it the neck? The bridge? The type of woods it's made of? All of those things combined in some particular way? The fact that it's bolt on? If I can get close enough to the sound by making the x64 out of the same woods (I think alder/maple is the default anyway) and using single coils, then I guess that's the way to go. 

I think having the expensive American Jazz V in my hands got me excited about a new bass in general, and one that's not a "mid range" or "affordable" bass, if you get what I mean. I'll certainly try the Jazz when it gets to the store if for no other reason than to have not wasted the stores time (and 'cause why not), but it's sounding more and more like I should just call Carvin and have a discussion about what I'm looking for.


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## TedEH (Jun 25, 2015)

Or just get both, 'cause who needs money, right?


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jun 25, 2015)

You're in Canuckistan. Get a Dingwall Super J.


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## mniel8195 (Jun 26, 2015)

Mike lull t bird ftw


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## TedEH (Jun 26, 2015)

Jebus, how did I not know that Super J was a thing? Mind = blown. Looks like I'll be reconsidering everything hahaha.


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## TedEH (Jun 26, 2015)

That T-Bird looks cool too, I like the shape of those. I still wish either was a 6er.


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## The Last Romantic (Jun 26, 2015)

Getting that Carvin is a pretty big risk if you haven't A/B'd it with the American Fender Jazz. 
It's a tall order to ask any bass to sound better than an American Jazz bass in general, so I would say that compounds the risk even further...
Always try before you buy!


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## TedEH (Jun 26, 2015)

It would be a risk with pretty much any bass I can't pick up in a store, which is why I'm still willing to try the USA Fender and give it the chance to "speak to me". It's so hard to find one in a store that I like enough. 

I'm very curious about these Dingwalls now though. Any idea what kind of cost is involved in those? I'm sure I can email for a price list, but I mostly want to know if a basic Super J 5 would be comparable in price to what I'm already looking at, or much more. It's not worth looking at for me if we're talking $3k+.


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## giantchris (Jun 26, 2015)

This is a slight tangent but I always recommend people who like Fender's to try G&L's. The tribute series is a really nice, cheap, good quality, and I honestly like their neck profiles a lot better then Fender's. Each their own though you really can't go wrong with either of those.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 26, 2015)

giantchris said:


> This is a slight tangent but I always recommend people who like Fender's to try G&L's. The tribute series is a really nice, cheap, good quality, and I honestly like their neck profiles a lot better then Fender's. Each their own though you really can't go wrong with either of those.



Tone and feel wise, I find the G&L basses to be far more analogous to Music Man.

Which is totally not a bad thing!


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## LordCashew (Jun 27, 2015)

Carvin's JVA pickups get really close to the Fender sound in all the clips I've heard. I'm almost certain they make them in soapbar cases and can put them in the X64.

If you really want a 6 string jazz bass you should look for a Fender Steve Bailey. I don't think they made very many but you might be able to hunt one down. They're a little pricey, but no more than the Dingwall Super J IIRC.

And backtracking to the bad B strings on the cheap Fenders you tried - I suspect that the issue was more inherent to the strings and setup of the basses than the basses themselves. Based on my experience, they would probably sound pretty good if they had a new B string of the proper gauge.


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## TedEH (Jun 27, 2015)

LordIronSpatula said:


> And backtracking to the bad B strings on the cheap Fenders you tried - I suspect that the issue was more inherent to the strings and setup of the basses than the basses themselves.



That's very possible, but I've never been a fan of Fender-style necks to begin with, which is probably why it takes a lot for a Fender to impress me. They're very baseball bat like to me. I'm much more used to Ibanez and Ltd necks on guitars and basses alike. The more I think/talk about it, the less I think Fender is the way to go.


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## TedEH (Jun 29, 2015)

I got the Canadian price list from Dingwall, and the Super J is officially outside of my price range. A Combustion is looking really tempting though.

If anyone here is really familiar with these Dingwalls, I'm curious how much better something like an ABZ would be to a Combustion? ABZ is also kind of outside of what I'd be willing to spend on an instrument usually, but it would let me continue to play a 6. I expect that either one would be several steps up from an Ltd though. So many options.


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## boobstastegreat (Jun 29, 2015)

You should check out their JB4 Carvin Jazz bass. I have the older, discontinued version, the sb5000 and it sounds amazing. I played it on my most recent couple albums and it blends well with a lot of different styles of mixes!

I prefer this model to the x64 mainly because I think the shapes on the 64 are too aggressive for me. I really think you can't go wrong with any Carvin -- they are by far the best bang for the buck that you can get. They play as good as items with twice the Carvin pricetag.

I know I sound like a Carvin fan boy and I kind of am. I also have a Carvin Icon 6 which I like less than the sb5000 -- The icon only has one tone really and it is a very modern/mid tone as opposed to the sb500 which is a nice scooped tone that fits more styles.


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## TedEH (Jun 29, 2015)

The thing that's currently keeping me from ordering from Carvin is the cost to get it to Canada. The x64 I had quoted to me was around $1600, which would be alright if it was left at that- but you have to convert USD -> CAD, plus shipping, plus whatever fees it takes to import, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'd have to add Quebec sales tax to that as well. After everything is done, the cost to me ends up being much closer to $2400 (unless I've got something wrong)- and it's worth keeping in mind how Carvin is known for having a bad resale value. Compare that to a stock Combustion, or the Jazz I was looking at, either one of which I could get to my door, taxes and all, for much cheaper. Unfortunately, when ordering from Canada, my dollar doesn't go very far with Carvin. I'd certainly like to buy one, but it's hard to justify the cost vs the value of the instrument.


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## TedEH (Jul 2, 2015)

Updates for anyone who's still paying attention:

The Jazz bass is at the store now, so I can go try it whenever I have time. Might do that tonight. I had decided that a Combustion looked like a great way to go, but there's no dealer nearby, and I wouldn't receive the instrument until December at the very earliest, according to an email I got from them.

So I guess I have to decide.. do I want a Jazz now, or a Combustion later?


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## elkinz (Jul 2, 2015)

If it were me id wait for the dingwall but im a big dingwall fanboy!


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## TedEH (Jul 2, 2015)

If I had gone with the Carvin like I had original intended, it would have also been a wait, so I guess I'm ok with that. If the Fender doesn't blow my mind (and I don't have much confidence that it will), I guess I'll just have to live with the wait for the Dingwall.


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## elkinz (Jul 2, 2015)

itll be worth the wait


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## FretSpider (Jul 3, 2015)

I love Jazz basses, but I'll be completely forward and blunt with what I'm going to say. Fender makes a crappy 5-string. I hate the 5-string J's. The B just doesn't hold up well. It's floppy as they come. Now, it's not all terrible. If for whatever reason I got myself a Jazz 5, I'd restring it E-C. That actually works pretty well. If you want some great Jazz tone with some beef, look at an Ibanez Premium SR or BTB with the Nordstrand Big Singles. Those are impressive instruments. 

Now, having said all that, while I've never played one, I've watched a lot of videos for Dingwall products, and while I'll say that fanned frets just aren't for me (I'd need to try one to verify), I'd wait for the Dingwall. It's all round a superior instrument. Or get an Ibanez.


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## TedEH (Jul 3, 2015)

FretSpider said:


> Or get an Ibanez.



I don't know what it is, but Ibanez bass necks are just weird. I don't deny it could be a case of poor setups in stores though.

I've spent some time googling the jazz Vs and there's a fair amount of discussion (argument?) about the "quality" of the B string, some people claim they're just fine as long as you get a recent MIA model, which is partly because of the graphite in the necks. Makes them more stable supposedly.

I find it frustrating that bass demo videos on youtube seem to avoid playing on the B, which makes it harder to judge.

Edit: Also, the band plays in B, so I can't tune higher- but it's very unlikely I'd be drop tuning ever. I do still have my 35" Ltd if I need it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 3, 2015)

The only gripe I have on some 5-string Fender J-Basses are the nut widths which can make it pretty cramped on the first five or six frets, but it's not too difficult to get used to, and some of the more recent examples I've played have fixed that issue for the most part, spreading the strings outward at the nut a hair. 

Sound wise, they're great. Some complain about the 34" scale, but that doesn't stop EBMM or Ibanez SR basses from sounding and playing great.


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## TedEH (Jul 3, 2015)

That's a large part of why I'm still willing to give the Fender a shot. I used to play an Ltd D5, and it's a 34". Granted, I was relatively new at bass at the time, but the B on that isn't bad. They've got my name on it, so I'll be trying it out tonight.


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## TedEH (Jul 3, 2015)

So I gave the Jazz a shot... aaaaand I took it home. 

The reason it was on sale was that it's not a current model. It's new, it just never sold, I guess? The guy at the store wasn't super knowledgeable about it, but the serial number shows it was made in 2011. It's definitely an American Standard though, still had the case, strap, manual, etc., and all the other junk that comes with it. The colour is yellowish, so I assume that's the "vintage white" finish.

First impressions:
- The 4 higher strings feel like you'd expect from a jazz bass. 
- The B string is.... acceptable! I'm fairly convinced that the scale length makes less of a difference than I might have thought. 
- Sweet Jebus the pickups on this thing are great. It's very close to the sound I was hoping for in my head. 
- I'm glad it's not black. I have enough black instruments. 
- It's balanced pretty well, so no neck dive or anything crazy. There's a tiny bit of fret buzz, but that's mostly from my playing style, and it'll get new strings and a setup so no worries yet. No weird/dead spots on the neck, each fret sounds cleanly- it plays like I would hope a $1k+ bass would. 

I realize the Dingwall is the superior instrument on paper, and I may still get one eventually, but I did start searching for a bass in part because I picked up a jazz and liked it, so it makes sense.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 7, 2015)

Cool beans, man. Glad you're happy with it.


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## JSanta (Jul 7, 2015)

My buddy that is sponsored by Fodera recently picked up a 5 string Jazz bass and it's honestly become his go to bass. It sounds that good. From the demos he's sent me of his group, the bass sounds huge.


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## TedEH (Jul 7, 2015)

It recently occurred to me that Jazz bass + Sansamp = instant Geddy tone. I'm also experimenting with using the Tubeworks rt-922 in place of the Sansamp (I found it at a used gear shop, hah), but haven't had a chance to crank it yet. I'll be able to try out all this new junk on Weds in a band setting, then maybe a proper NBD/review is in order.

Also, I'm still very tempted to start saving for the Dingwall as well. More basses is more better.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 9, 2015)

Geddy started using Sansamp in the early 2000's in his rig, so that's not surprising.


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