# Blackmachine chambering



## Humbuck (Nov 3, 2014)

Does anybody know exactly what Doug does or what it looks like?


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## Cloudy (Nov 3, 2014)

I think the chambering is suppose to be the 'secret' of his brand, I doubt many people know the exact layout. But I dont imagine its anything fancy...and thats coming from a blackmachine owner.


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## max3000 (Nov 3, 2014)

I think someone should run it through a CAT scan.


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## JoeyBTL (Nov 3, 2014)

max3000 said:


> I think someone should run it through a CAT scan.



Blackmachine owners don't have enough money for a CAT scan after buying the guitar.


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## Purelojik (Nov 3, 2014)

I remember watching this video and getting really confused. his wording was a bit hard to understand, but from what i did manage to decipher via the subtitles is that he hasnt told anyone. I dunno, chambering is chambering. There isnt much to it. 



around 1:20


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## DistinguishedPapyrus (Nov 3, 2014)

JoeyBTL said:


> Blackmachine owners don't have enough money for a CAT scan after buying the guitar.



I think a plain x-ray would do...


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## JuliusJahn (Nov 3, 2014)

In one of Ormsby's "In the shop" video's you can see the template he uses to chamber his. I doubt the layout/size will have a dramatic effect on the tone, especially without soundholes.


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 3, 2014)

You must've been watching those videos pretty closely, Julius.
Chambering has changed since the 2013 batch.

I know a few B2 & B6 owners and some have preferred the B6, which is not chambered.


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## ormsby guitars (Nov 3, 2014)

Haha. We snagged our first Mat. Told ya!


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## JuliusJahn (Nov 3, 2014)

capoeiraesp said:


> You must've been watching those videos pretty closely, Julius.
> Chambering has changed since the 2013 batch.
> 
> I know a few B2 & B6 owners and some have preferred the B6, which is not chambered.








One of the comments mentioned it.


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## ormsby guitars (Nov 3, 2014)

To take REAL advantage of chambering, you'll need to base it on various factors: density, weight, surface area, and top density or thickness. Not to mention overall tone desired. Otherwise, you're just drilling holes in wood. Of course, results are based on doing the hard yards...


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## jwade (Nov 4, 2014)

Didn't Doug say (or someone else speaking in regard to something Doug said) that he chambers his guitars with the goal of attaining a very specific overall guitar weight?


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## Purelojik (Nov 4, 2014)

I honestly think its just something he wants to say that preserves the "mystery" of blackmachine.


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## Thrashman (Nov 5, 2014)

For the mysticism fanboys out there, in one of the guitar show video's on YouTube Doug specifically says "..but they don't know what's IN them".


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## RV350ALSCYTHE (Nov 5, 2014)

Cat scan and/or x-ray seems really unfeasible...

Stud-finder will give you a rough idea where the chambering is


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 5, 2014)

Wasn't he caught on video more or less boasting that no one knows?

 @ X-ray... Make an appointment with your doctor and sneak in your guitar... 

"Here's what I really wanna see..."


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## shanejohnson02 (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm thinking bandsaw.





So, who wants to try first?


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## technomancer (Nov 5, 2014)

Thrashman said:


> For the mysticism fanboys out there, in one of the guitar show video's on YouTube Doug specifically says "..but they don't know what's IN them".



It's witchcraft I tell you... BURN HIM  

(we really need a mob with pitchforks and torches smiley...)


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## jwade (Nov 5, 2014)

It's totally got magic crystals in the chambers.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 5, 2014)

Like the ones from Napoleon Dynamite?


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## Khoi (Nov 5, 2014)

They probably have the same crystal lattice in them that Dumbles have


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## asher (Nov 5, 2014)

jwade said:


> It's totally got magic crystals in the chambers.





Spoiler



They're meth.


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## RV350ALSCYTHE (Nov 5, 2014)

Iron the top till the glue softens and remove the top.
Reglue 

No cutting/sawing

I know it's a very difficult procedure, but sure beats cutting the wood
(ya I know no one is going to do this to a BM ever)


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 5, 2014)

Whatever it is it must have some effect even minor. The sustain/resonances on BMs are insane. 

Is there a danger of it getting neck heavy? Especially with uses very hard/stiff neck woods.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Nov 5, 2014)

Thrashman said:


> For the mysticism fanboys out there, in one of the guitar show video's on YouTube Doug specifically says "..but they don't know what's IN them".



Like corking a baseball bat...


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## Kammo1 (Nov 6, 2014)

I had a pic of the chambering from about 10 years ago which was posted to me when a customer asked for the exact same doing to his guitar. Now dont ask me where he got it from but he was from down London way so maybe could of photographed it before these guitars became all the rage but now a closely guarded secret. I still have it somewhere on one of my computers and will take a look over the weekend


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## molsoncanadian (Nov 6, 2014)

The secret to the chambering? Hype it on sevenstring. Thats the secret.


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## VSK Guitars (Nov 6, 2014)

molsoncanadian said:


> The secret to the chambering? Hype it on sevenstring. Thats the secret.



Yeah, but no one knows that the chambers are secretly stuffed with the ass hairs of endangered Snow Leopards and Dodo bird beaks blended and heated to exactly 136.7 deg F, then gently spooned, NOT POURED, into the left most chamber. The real secret is what goes into the right side chamber


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## Rusti (Nov 7, 2014)

Kammo1 said:


> I had a pic of the chambering from about 10 years ago which was posted to me when a customer asked for the exact same doing to his guitar. Now dont ask me where he got it from but he was from down London way so maybe could of photographed it before these guitars became all the rage but now a closely guarded secret. I still have it somewhere on one of my computers and will take a look over the weekend




Was it a quilted maple top?


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## jwade (Nov 7, 2014)

Let's see it!


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## pylyo (Nov 7, 2014)

I have some pics too, where all is clearly visible. 
The top and body are chambered a bit.
They are of Nollys first guitar, the quilted one.
Was told not to post them...


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## IVIaverick52 (Nov 7, 2014)

pylyo said:


> I have some pics too, where all is clearly visible.
> The top and body are chambered a bit.
> They are of Nollys first guitar, the quilted one.
> Was told not to post them...



As a small business owner I'd agree with that request. When a business does something that clearly sets them apart and gives their products a unique attribute that is constantly sparking the interest of users, that's something rare. Speculate and joke all you want but I wouldn't encourage anyone to actually try to share Black Machine's construction secrets.


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## molsoncanadian (Nov 7, 2014)

IVIaverick52 said:


> As a small business owner I'd agree with that request. When a business does something that clearly sets them apart and gives their products a unique attribute that is constantly sparking the interest of users, that's something rare. Speculate and joke all you want but I wouldn't encourage anyone to actually try to share Black Machine's construction secrets.



I wouldn't say that chambering has set them apart at all. Lots of manufacturers have been chambering for years and years......... sparking the interest of users? Gahhhhh 

But I guess we should probably keep his super secret construction methods a secret. He is definitely doing something above and beyond everyone else lol.


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## Kammo1 (Nov 7, 2014)

Totally agree with the above posts and I would not post them as this would be an injustice to Doug. Being a custom guitar maker myself I know that sometimes when people copy or replicate something you have worked hard to achieve can be annoying.What I can say is this there wasnt any secret to it but I;m guessing its how they were located that could give the guitars their sound.......


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## Captain Butterscotch (Nov 7, 2014)

Post that shit.


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## JEguitars (Nov 10, 2014)

Purelojik said:


> I remember watching this video and getting really confused. his wording was a bit hard to understand, but from what i did manage to decipher via the subtitles is that he hasnt told anyone. I dunno, chambering is chambering. There isnt much to it.
> 
> 
> 
> around 1:20




I have a custom chambering system on my line. I think chambering is not chambering. If you can think "moving air" in terms of your chambering, you can come up with some really neat stuff.


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## hairychris (Nov 10, 2014)

B6s aren't chambered (they're solid swamp ash).

Handbuilts weren't being chambered in 2007, but were by 2010. I'm not sure whether this was for all guitars, it's definitely for the mahog bodied ones.

The BMs are chambered for tonal reasons, it's absolutely nothing to do with weight.

And as for where the chambers are - nope, that isn't publicised and it's a bit rude to ask quite frankly. Do your own R&D to see what works best! Also remember this is on bodies between 30mm & 40mm in thickness so needs a gentle touch.

I also remember when Nolly posted a build picture showing some of the chambering... I'm one of the people who asked him to pull it down. 

EDIT: The chambers *aren't* anything fancy in shape, FYI. Volume and positioning are what matters.


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## hairychris (Nov 10, 2014)

capoeiraesp said:


> I know a few B2 & B6 owners and some have preferred the B6, which is not chambered.



Funnily enough I was having a chat with Jon from Feline about this at the weekend. His take is that the B6 is a more forgiving instrument to play than the B2 so works better for some people. Chambering isn't really the issue, the whole vibe of the guitar is. You also have the "live use" thing, where the B6 may be better suited to that environment...

I don't know though. I've gigged my B7 (chambered) a bunch of times and I like the fact that it does exactly what you tell it to. It's certainly an acquired taste, though!  FWIW the unchambered handbuilts are even less forgiving still.


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## Humbuck (Nov 10, 2014)

Rude..ha ha. Forgive me for being so rude to ask something like this on an internet guitar forum. How dare I. Lol.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 10, 2014)

hairychris said:


> Funnily enough I was having a chat with Jon from Feline about this at the weekend. His take is that the B6 is a more forgiving instrument to play than the B2 so works better for some people. Chambering isn't really the issue, the whole vibe of the guitar is. You also have the "live use" thing, where the B6 may be better suited to that environment...
> 
> I don't know though. I've gigged my B7 (chambered) a bunch of times and I like the fact that it does exactly what you tell it to. It's certainly an acquired taste, though!  FWIW the unchambered handbuilts are even less forgiving still.



Interesting. The B2 and B7 I've played were both effortless and very clear sounding. I've always described some pickups as unforgiving since they pick up to much hand/pick noise or you need very strict technique to avoid unwanted noise but I've never thought of a guitar being the cause.


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## Purelojik (Nov 10, 2014)

someone explain this forgiving/unforgiving term to me. It just strikes me as another mystical term people use when talking about BM's. call me cynical but ever since i started building electrics, I've come to find that theres really not much to an electric. all things being the same, pickup choices seem to have the greatest effect next to the amp. The tonewood debate is up in the air and i do have my thoughts on it but that will launch into another debate. Now i understand a lot of what gives a guitar its mojo is the feel and connection between the instrument and player and if thats what people talk about when they mean forgiving or unforgiving then I'll just leave it be.

At the risk of starting a flame war, i'd actually really like understand if theres something im missing.


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## hairychris (Nov 10, 2014)

Humbuck said:


> Rude..ha ha. Forgive me for being so rude to ask something like this on an internet guitar forum. How dare I. Lol.



Well, if a builder isn't putting something like this out there I'd, by default, take it that they want to keep it to themselves.

Not so much a jab at you having the question, though, but to the people who are like ".... it, post unofficial photos anyway!".


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## hairychris (Nov 10, 2014)

Purelojik said:


> someone explain this forgiving/unforgiving term to me. It just strikes me as another mystical term people use when talking about BM's. call me cynical but ever since i started building electrics, I've come to find that theres really not much to an electric. all things being the same, pickup choices seem to have the greatest effect next to the amp. The tonewood debate is up in the air and i do have my thoughts on it but that will launch into another debate. Now i understand a lot of what gives a guitar its mojo is the feel and connection between the instrument and player and if thats what people talk about when they mean forgiving or unforgiving then I'll just leave it be.
> 
> At the risk of starting a flame war, i'd actually really like understand if theres something im missing.



As you've said there are several levels that this happens.

On the amp side, my history went Marshall Shredmaster into JCM900 -> Mesa Dual Rectifier -> Diezel Einstein

At each step the precision that I needed to sound good increased. The Mesa shouted out errors louder than the Marshall/stomp, and the Diezel upped the ante further.

You play enough guitars and you find that the same happens. The B2s tend to have a very fast & pronounced attack. So, put in a ceramic pickup with an up-front mid-spike and you get a guitar that demands you hit the beat every time, and the right note every time, as your signal is so clear and in your face.

If you're used to a guitar that plays looser (softer attack, say something all mahog with warm AlNiCo pickups) it's something that you feel when you're standing in front of a good valve amp.

I'm not saying that on a recording a listener can tell the difference between 2 similarly loaded guitars, and I agree that, ultimately, amp makes a bigger tonal difference... EDIT: Basically if you run a dull & muddy gain tone this isn't going to make the blindest bit of difference.


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## asher (Nov 10, 2014)

Attempt at tl;dr: the claim is basically that, if you have someone who makes (even if small) mistakes while playing, if you recorded the same song twice, once with a "forgiving" and once with an "unforgiving" guitar, those small mistakes (slightly off timed notes, choking notes, bad pick attack) will jump out more with the "unforgiving" guitar.


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## narad (Nov 10, 2014)

This sort of debate happened over on TGP with Gustavsson bluesmasters. Very similar scenario actually - bluesmasters were like $4k for a few years, then some people started recommending them, then backlogged, then they were going for $14k+ used just a few years later (and have since cooled down since Johan actually builds a reasonable number of them each year). Everyone was describing them as "superlative" and the best thing next to a real 59 burst, but people didn't know exactly what to attribute to why they sounded that way or if the hype was justified. What happened in that case was some guy brought his bluesmaster to his dentist friend's office and posted the x-rays. The result was surprising for two reasons:

1.) It was chambered. This wasn't being openly stated and many people just assumed he had found really nice mahogany (in the LP world where light weight is often associated with nicer / dryer / older wood).

2.) It was just simple chambering routes like you would find on a JPX - of course staying away from the center block. 

This caused a huge controversy. In a followup experiment, a bunch of clips were made with various bluesmasters and no one could tell which ones were chambered better than random, and even non-bluesmaster guitars were hard to identify out of the mix. 

It's easy to get wrapped up in what gives a guitar a desirable sound, but ultimately solidbodies are quite simple things and even the chambering used by Johan - pretty much the most respected LP builder in the world (could throw Gil Yaron up there as well) - uses a pretty rudimentary technique, and ultimately the sonic difference is very small if appreciable at all. I imagine this is also the case for blackmachine, and the desire to keep it a secret is largely motivated by how little secret sauce there is. 

I'll always respect and prefer to go to builders like Johan or Doug when possible (historically neither have been easily reachable), but that's for because I know the work is top notch -- I'm not going to pretend like I believe there's a certain pocket one can place in a solidbody guitar that makes it sound magical either.


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## Kammo1 (Nov 10, 2014)

Being a custom builder all I can say is that its where and how the chambers are cut and placed where you will notice a sound difference and I would bet over 80% of people A/B ing 2 BM side by side would probably struggle to even hear a difference and determine which had chambering and which didn't. IMHO semi acoustic guitars played in a non high gain environment will benefit from chambering and this is where you will here the benefits. Like I have said I have a pic and NO its not Nollys and all I can say that the chambering isnt mystical at all just strategically placed shapes in the guitar and thats it. I would say to many makers out there be brave and create your own variants on this and experiment to a degree your happy with what it sounds like, after all it will be the sound that will be the overall judge and your ears


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## ElRay (Nov 10, 2014)

technomancer said:


> It's witchcraft I tell you... BURN HIM
> 
> (we really need a mob with pitchforks and torches smiley...)



Doug turned me into a newt!

(but I got better)


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## immortalx (Nov 10, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> I get that someone is going to say "it's the location" or "its the shape"...but it comes down to the fact that there isn't one goddamn scientifically proven report/investigation or whatever that confirms this.



+10000


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## jwade (Nov 11, 2014)

Ok so there are 5 chambers, but they're supposedly somehow strategically placed/shaped in a way that what, creates some magic resonance?


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## Neilzord (Nov 12, 2014)

I heard the 5 chambers are actually lined with gold, which when mixed with the tonewoods resonates at the same frequency as some peoples wallets, Thus creating a very smug tone.





....I wish my wallet resonated at that frequency and was full of enough cash for me to buy one of my own.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 12, 2014)

Chambering is nice, it really adds a dimension to the feel of a note when you pick it. It is a touch louder playing them unplugged, but it isn't going to give you a euphoric playing experience when you plug in a B2/7/8. 

Either way, this kind of tone may or may not be for you. And if that's the case most of you would just swap pickups  those alone are going to have a far more powerful impact on your sound than the chambering will.


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## crg123 (Nov 12, 2014)

technomancer said:


> So it's filled with Krokodil?



It's a reference to "Raiders of the Lost Ark"/ Ark of the Covenant haha... sorry I'm just old... 

Edit: guess i am old, forgot the name of the movie I was even referencing thanks haha.


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## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Nov 12, 2014)

crg123 said:


> It's a reference to "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"/ the holy grail haha... sorry I'm just old...



Raiders of the Lost Ark


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## teamSKDM (Nov 13, 2014)

I heard he put wutang clans "36 chambers" album in his guitars.


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

K3V1N SHR3DZ said:


> Raiders of the Lost Ark



 I got the reference but made an additional joke


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## XxJoshxX (Nov 13, 2014)

I understand why people dont want to share the pictures, but if anybody wants to pm me one that'd be cool too


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

XxJoshxX said:


> I understand why people dont want to share the pictures, but if anybody wants to pm me one that'd be cool too



What are you even going to do with it? Useless information.


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## JuliusJahn (Nov 13, 2014)

narad said:


> What are you even going to do with it? Useless information.



I'm just curious as well to see what the heck is going on. If it's truly useless, why can't it be public?


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

So you guys can be like, "Buy my guitar - Now with blackmachine chambering!"


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## JuliusJahn (Nov 13, 2014)

narad said:


> So you guys can be like, "Buy my guitar - Now with blackmachine chambering!"



 Wasn't on my agenda. I got my own chambering patterns already in place. I just think for the sake of guitar building it should be known - we know all about acoustic brace patterns and they're effects on tone/strength, so why not learn all about solid body chambering as well?


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## jwade (Nov 13, 2014)

It's funny how the story seems to go back and forth between it being 'nothing that hasnt been done before' to a 'mysterious secret method passed down from the gods of tone'.


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

jwade said:


> It's funny how the story seems to go back and forth between it being 'nothing that hasnt been done before' to a 'mysterious secret method passed down from the gods of tone'.



Not quite. It's absolutely not going to be anything special, seriously, but he has every right to keep it secret as the guy who put in the time to come up with something he liked and wanted on his guitars. I know all the McLuthiers want to copy the chambering as well as the headstock as well as the body, but you know, you have to do your own stuff some time.


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## teamSKDM (Nov 13, 2014)

Hmmm, I just had a thought. How do you think tone would be altered if you lined the chambers of a guitar with something like brass?


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

narad said:


> Not quite. It's absolutely not going to be anything special, seriously, but he has every right to keep it secret as the guy who put in the time to come up with something he liked and wanted on his guitars. I know all the McLuthiers want to copy the chambering as well as the headstock as well as the body, but you know, you have to do your own stuff some time.



I find the McLuthiers comment a bit funny given the number of "legendary" builders that are basically making slight variations on themes created by other people (Yaron, Gustavsson, etc) and given that the BM thing is a thin superstrat with a Parker headstock variation and a forearm bevel that others have done before as well. I dig the aesthetic, but there really is nothing earth shattering about it.

It really is amazing what carefully engineered hype can do though.


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## Jake (Nov 13, 2014)

^^^ All of that. 

I highly doubt the BM chambering is anything groundbreaking or incredibly special. Really not sure why everyone is getting all bothered by the fact some people want to see what goes into the guitars? Especially since it's already been mentioned here that pictures of it have even been posted here before


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

Yeah there was a time I would have been against posting it, but watching the hype cycle that's been built around some of these guys building what are pretty basic guitars has just driven me to not care 

What's funny is if you watch other forums and groups you can see it being started again for another builder doing similar guitars. I just get amazed guys don't see the marketing pattern for this stuff happening.


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## Jake (Nov 13, 2014)

Not to say I wouldn't want to try one of the magical Blackmachines 

Still would love to be given the chance to actually get my hands on one and see if it really is nothing more than an RG clone with a pointer Parker headstock and some bkps  but with the way some certain people who no longer post on this website have price hyped them it's pretty hard for me to see that happening anytime soon.

Guess I'll just sit back and continue to enjoy my PRS


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

Yeah the comments I got from a friend that played one was that they were nice but not $6k nice (the going rate when he played one). That was pretty much enough for me as we like similar guitars and I trust the guy's opinion. I like the aesthetic when they have a cool top on them, but definitely not something I would even consider paying the current going rate for. I'd throw down for a PRS PS order first.

Again that's IMHO and guitars are such a subjective thing that I don't fault anybody for paying whatever they want for something that speaks to them, just not something I would go in for at the going rate.

Anyways pretty major derail here, so we should probably get back to chambering


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

technomancer said:


> I find the McLuthiers comment a bit funny given the number of "legendary" builders that are basically making slight variations on themes created by other people (Yaron, Gustavsson, etc)



A bit different when Yaron and Gustavsson aim to build a better and even more historically accurate Gibson than Gibson currently builds, at additional cost. Blackmachine cloners are not trying to build a better guitar, they're trying to build a cheaper guitar.


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## Jake (Nov 13, 2014)

true  (to Techno)





there we go


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## Djdnxgdj3983jrjd8udb3bcns (Nov 13, 2014)

Guaranteed it's merely because the body is ash/mahogany/whatever vaneers over plywood, that on the day of Doug's passing will be revealed in an exceedingly long and villainous monologue on the topic of confirmation bias :'D


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

narad said:


> A bit different when Yaron and Gustavsson aim to build a better and even more historically accurate Gibson than Gibson currently builds, at additional cost. Blackmachine cloners are not trying to build a better guitar, they're trying to build a cheaper guitar.



They aim to build what will sell and they can make the most money doing. Gustavsson had zero problem letting PBG build his designs on a production line until he got hit by backlash. Not questioning craftsmanship of those guys but taking shots at anybody because of the style of guitars they build is ridiculous. And I say that as somebody who really doesn't care as I'm not in line with any of the builders in question.


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## redstone (Nov 13, 2014)

If BMs chambers really have a serious effect and the weight is balanced, the neck might be chambered as well.


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

technomancer said:


> They aim to build what will sell and they can make the most money doing.



That's a bit misguided. It's a job, but a job is not solely a pursuit for maximizing profits at all cost. If you've seen Gil's builds then you know it's primarily a labor of love (and was so long before he was building professionally). You think Skervesen and Ormsby idolize blackmachine the same way? Totally different scenarios.


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## immortalx (Nov 13, 2014)

redstone said:


> If BMs chambers really have a serious effect and the weight is balanced, the neck might be chambered as well.



That's actually a great idea! And all of a sudden, woodworm neck blank prices will skyrocket!


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2014)

narad said:


> That's a bit misguided. It's a job, but a job is not solely a pursuit for maximizing profits at all cost. If you've seen Gil's builds then you know it's primarily a labor of love (and was so long before he was building professionally). You think Skervesen and Ormsby idolize blackmachine the same way? Totally different scenarios.



Misguided based on what, your vast personal knowledge of what Yaron is like in real life vs his online persona?

You don't build guitars unless you like what you're doing, it's not a high margin business unless you're running a factory and moving serious volume. I'm sure Gil loves what he does, but he's not charging $8k+ per build because he's paying homage to anything but his bank account. Yaron has a brilliant marketing message designed to appeal to high end consumers of expensive guitars. He's marketing a "better than 50s LP" guitar to people for a small fraction of what a real 50s LP would cost. The whole premium built like they used to be and you can't get anymore nostalgia marketing is done for different items all over the place and he's done a brilliant job of using it.

While it's a different scale of pricing I'm not sure how you can NOT see the similarity. Having been in business for a long time it still amazes me when guys can't see marketing going on and buy into it.

Yaron is an amazing craftsman, but he has also been very sharp managing his brand.


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## capone1 (Nov 13, 2014)

^^^

That's the thing about us dumb guitar players. It's been done before, just market it as it will make us play better, look better, sound better. At that point it doesn't matter what the cost is. Especially when theres a following that will echo chamber the bias until....feedback loop.......


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 13, 2014)

technomancer said:


> Again that's IMHO and guitars are such a subjective thing that I don't fault anybody for paying whatever they want for something that speaks to them, just not something I would go in for at the going rate.





I have two guitars that I wouldn't sell for any less than 5 figures. They aren't worth that much but to me they are near priceless because I really connect with them. 

Personally I would put Blackmachine at the pinnacle of electric guitars. I've played a lot of guitars and Doug's Koa B2 is the best guitar I've ever played. Inspiring and effortless would be how I describe it. Would I pay the auction/Second hand prices? Hell no! Its a musical tool, not a piece of art or an investment.


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## narad (Nov 13, 2014)

technomancer said:


> While it's a different scale of pricing I'm not sure how you can NOT see the similarity. Having been in business for a long time it still amazes me when guys can't see marketing going on and buy into it.



Yes, Doug, Gil, and Johan all benefit from hype. I mentioned that pages back. But since it was my McLuthier comment that triggered this tangent, and it was in reference to all the low cost, poor quality replicas that have sprung up in response to blackmachine demand, I don't see how Gil and Johan are relevant. 

It's pretty clear to see the marketing...it just doesn't change the fact that if you want a high quality burst guitar made in a manner similar to a 50s instrument, there's no one doing a good job at a significantly lower price point.


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## jwade (Nov 13, 2014)

This has gone overly off topic. Might be a good idea to go start a different thread if you're inclined to continue on with the conversation. 

As for the chambering topic, I'm curious if there's any concrete evidence as to the effect of differently shaped/sized chambers. I've never before seen any guitar maker, whether big company or one man operation, that approached chambering as some secretive, copyright-worthy thing. It's starting to seem more and more likely that the argument against anyone knowing the 'secret' is probably more a matter of protecting the mystique and hype. 

I'd like to see these pictures already to just settle the argument. It's either the most basic 'it's been done' method, or something maybe a little bit different than the norm. I would like to know which, as it would settle the argument of 'should I save up?/is it worth the hype?' instantly.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 13, 2014)

I think Doug commented on how every aspect of his guitar's aesthetics and structure has been copied besides what goes on inside. Its one of the only things a luthier has to himself. And Id personally say if chambering makes a difference in tone then you bet location makes the difference as well. Luthiers also have other things/secrets such as how they treat/bake/dry/season the wood which as Paul Reed Smith puts it "crystalizes the resins" in his secret way to contribute to the PRS tone. Then you have matching tap tone characteristics/musical notes to create the perfect tonal balance between the different cuts/species of woods. Doesn't Doug use his own tap tone method when marrying woods? There are definitely more secrets that a builder can have than just chambering.


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## molsoncanadian (Nov 14, 2014)




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## leonardo7 (Nov 14, 2014)

Not much on chambering but...


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## narad (Nov 14, 2014)

jwade said:


> I'd like to see these pictures already to just settle the argument. It's either the most basic 'it's been done' method, or something maybe a little bit different than the norm. I would like to know which, as it would settle the argument of 'should I save up?/is it worth the hype?' instantly.



It wouldn't though. That's such bizarre logic. According to your statement, you look at a blackmachine x-ray and...
case 1.) chambering routes resemble a Rorschach test, "wow, this is worth the hype!"
case 2.) chambering is done with typical row routes. "That's not worth saving up for."


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## Neilzord (Nov 14, 2014)

^ Exactly.


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## XxJoshxX (Nov 14, 2014)

I just didnt realize it was such a crime to want to know what goes inside of a guitar.


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## technomancer (Nov 14, 2014)

narad said:


> Yes, Doug, Gil, and Johan all benefit from hype. I mentioned that pages back. But since it was my McLuthier comment that triggered this tangent, and it was in reference to all the low cost, poor quality replicas that have sprung up in response to blackmachine demand, I don't see how Gil and Johan are relevant.
> 
> It's pretty clear to see the marketing...it just doesn't change the fact that if you want a high quality burst guitar made in a manner similar to a 50s instrument, there's no one doing a good job at a significantly lower price point.



I was talking about brand management and your assumption that somebody incorporating elements of other guitars into their work (in this case Blackmachine) was automatically a "McLuthier" so I brought up guys that are building very high quality instruments while basically building a variation of another guitar. Yes some of the guys building the Blackmachine style guitars clearly have issues and nobody with half a brain should buy one. There's also at least one of them that seems to know his stuff and be putting out high quality instruments. I haven't played any of them, just going by what I've seen online and NGDs. If you can't see my point that building a variation on another guitar doesn't automatically make you a bad builder then I'm not sure how to explain it any more clearly. To quote a classic, "Some men you just can't reach."

I just get tired of guys that buy the myth of the Zen guru master guitar builder that is only concerned about building the perfect instrument and doesn't care about sales more than anything I think 



jwade said:


> This has gone overly off topic.



Good call and apologies since I was part of the cause for the derail. I'm done now I think 

So back to chambering....


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## capone1 (Nov 14, 2014)

Well for curiosity sake I think we'd all like to see now.


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## molsoncanadian (Nov 14, 2014)

leonardo7 said:


> Not much on chambering but...




I appreciate the video's, but I think ill stick to believing that these types of considerations fall into the hocus pocus column. I prefer scientific absolutes over some guy tapping a piece of wood. Call me stubborn, and I would like to avoid another tone wood debate, but you would be hard pressed to convince me that because an unfinished piece of wood audibly sounds louder when tapped, that its going to have some magnificent improvement on how the guitar sounds when plugged in.

Just consider the verbiage he uses in the video, it strikes me that he is doing nothing other than marketing a product, and protecting that ever apparent realm of secrecy that equates to nothing more than hype IMO.

But that chambering tho!


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## Purelojik (Nov 15, 2014)

XxJoshxX said:


> I just didnt realize it was such a crime to want to know what goes inside of a guitar.



no crime. just if someone who makes something explicitly wishes the public not to know then its just common decency to respect that. its not like the hype of BM's gonna fade if people realize that the chambering isnt anything special. but if he believes its something special then thats that.


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## jwade (Nov 15, 2014)

I saw an interesting picture of a guitar body that had essentially one giant chamber (I'd say 3 times the size of the others) on the lower bass side of the body, and probably 5-7 other significantly smaller chambers under the pickguard area. None on the upper bass side, none on the lower treble side. I can't find the picture at the moment, as I found it while browsing on google at work, but it was a Tele looking body, and it struck me as looking fairly unique. 

I think at this point, it doesn't really matter if the picture were shared, since Doug isn't building much of anything anymore, and Feline Guitars are building solid body B6s now, and the very limited number of chambered guitars that Doug has built that have been sold for fairly high prices aren't going to be anything that changes the guitar world in any way, so whatever. I'd still like to see the pictures, but I'm of the opinion that the level of secrecy and hype around the chambering pattern/shape is just a matter of people wanting to protect their super-hyped investments so that they can sell them for $20K in 5 years.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 15, 2014)

jwade said:


> I saw an interesting picture of a guitar body that had essentially one giant chamber (I'd say 3 times the size of the others) on the lower bass side of the body, and probably 5-7 other significantly smaller chambers under the pickguard area. None on the upper bass side, none on the lower treble side. I can't find the picture at the moment, as I found it while browsing on google at work, but it was a Tele looking body, and it struck me as looking fairly unique.



Chambered Blackmachine's are heavily chambered on the bass side



jwade said:


> I'm of the opinion that the level of secrecy and hype around the chambering pattern/shape is just a matter of people wanting to protect their super-hyped investments so that they can sell them for $20K in 5 years.



I shit you not that a couple of Blackmachine's have 'already' sold for 20K 

The rave reviews are mostly due to the way they play and sound, but the prices are due to the legit rarity. I believe he has his own method of chambering, but nobody actually thinks the 15K-20K prices are solely because of the chambering


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## narad (Nov 15, 2014)

leonardo7 said:


> Nobody actually thinks the 15K-20K prices are solely because of the chambering



Except in this thread!


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## Obstsalat (Nov 16, 2014)

> Chambered Blackmachine's are heavily chambered on the bass side



How do you know?


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 16, 2014)

He owns two. It's easy to just tap the top to figure out where and roughly how big the chambers are.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 16, 2014)

If you haven't claimed any kind of pattent on the chambering pattern, I see no reason why someone wouldn't just copy it. We're not talking about plagiarizing a design and claiming it as your own.

Also, who tells you that there isn't at least one legit client in the world that's willing to take the body apart or X-Ray it? The person paid for it, and is just showing you what he has paid for. It's like seperating one instrument from a music track, making it public, and the artist claiming "oh you shouldn't have done that, now people in other professional bands will copy my technique/sound and I'll lose money because of that". That's how dumb that sounds.

Want to be anal and forbid with pattents and copyrights any kind of reproduction of parts of your music/guitar? Fine, it's your dime on lawyers and net personnel to report every fvcking infringement posted. Appropriation cases of not crediting in any way the original creator and/or denying the copying are not included in this reasoning.


It really bugs me that because music is directly correlated with passion, personal technique (prefered set-up, neck profile, tone, etc) and honed artistic views (for example the shape of a guitar), it also throws logic out of the window because of that passion. That means a lot of mysticism and balloney goes on, blended seemlesly with a lot of correct information.

If you're not willing to back something pertaining to your works of logic (for instance a revolutionary pattern in the chambering) with actual science,evidence, right marketing and law protection, then you're just trying to sell your product as a quack that sells magic roots.


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## narad (Nov 16, 2014)

^^ Doug just makes guitars. He's not a scientist and he doesn't advertise or market chambering in his guitars - he literally does not mention it anywhere on the blackmachine website, and most of the talk of chambering is due to a single offhand comment Doug made to a friend at an expo. You want to know where the hype comes from? I'll leave it to you to figure that out, but's obviously not coming from Doug.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 16, 2014)

narad said:


> ^^ Doug just makes guitars. He's not a scientist and he doesn't advertise or market chambering in his guitars - he literally does not mention it anywhere on the blackmachine website, and most of the talk of chambering is due to a single offhand comment Doug made to a friend at an expo. You want to know where the hype comes from? I'll leave it to you to figure that out, but's obviously not coming from Doug.



He did ask though for pictures not to be published, and that comment in the video made it seem like that's one of the secret juices that makes the original guitars different from the copies. If he believes it's debatable whether this chambering is substantially different, then he just wouldn't need to keep it hidden, especially when it's something not visually apparent on a complete instrument. If he believes it does make that much of a difference, he should back it somehow, like Ola does his neck profile.


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## narad (Nov 16, 2014)

Deadnightshade said:


> If he believes it does make that much of a difference, he should back it somehow, like Ola does his neck profile.



Honestly this is just completely ridiculous. It would not be feasible to obtain or possible to enforce. There is nothing for Doug to gain from even trying to do that.

I just think it's sad that, assuming Doug actually believes the particular type of chambering to be some super important part of the blackmachine sound (which I think is a huge stretch in general), that everyone thinks it's fair play to copy it. If I like my dinner I don't demand that the chef tell me his recipe or bribe the restaurant staff to tell me what ingredients he has around, because that recipe is the result of his hard work. I don't care if he doesn't have a patent on the recipe (which you can't do) - that's not the point! 

Similarly, if you're a guitar builder, build a few guitars with different chambering schemes and see what you think sounds the best. Do the work. It's not rocket science. It has the added benefit of finding you the right chambering for your guitars, since you're not going to have the woods, dimensions, or construction methods of one of Doug's anyway, and presumably these are more important variables than chambering shape and size.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 16, 2014)

narad said:


> Honestly this is just completely ridiculous. It would not be feasible to obtain or possible to enforce. There is nothing for Doug to gain from even trying to do that.
> 
> I just think it's sad that, assuming Doug actually believes the particular type of chambering to be some super important part of the blackmachine sound (which I think is a huge stretch in general), that everyone thinks it's fair play to copy it. If I like my dinner I don't demand that the chef tell me his recipe or bribe the restaurant staff to tell me what ingredients he has around, because that recipe is the result of his hard work. I don't care if he doesn't have a patent on the recipe (which you can't do) - that's not the point!
> 
> Similarly, if you're a guitar builder, build a few guitars with different chambering schemes and see what you think sounds the best. Do the work. It's not rocket science. It has the added benefit of finding you the right chambering for your guitars, since you're not going to have the woods, dimensions, or construction methods of one of Doug's anyway, and presumably these are more important variables than chambering shape and size.



My point is that in things that you can't have a patent on, don't ask others not to share an aspect of it. You yourself can deny giving information away, or protect it from being blatantly plagiarized, but because someone got his meal to go and analyzed the ingredients, it doesn't mean the dish will come out the same. You have the original recipe and you should market it as such. Are coke and pepsi the same?


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## Neilzord (Nov 16, 2014)

I wonder if Doug reads all of these endless threads about his guitars.


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## canuck brian (Nov 17, 2014)

If Doug doesn't want the photos published of his chambering, then the photos shouldn't be published.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 17, 2014)

Neilzord said:


> I wonder if Doug reads all of these endless threads about his guitars.



Nope. He's bound to have heard it all before anyway.


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## Danukenator (Nov 17, 2014)

I have a question about Doug's "marketing" that caused so much hype. Was the "marketing" actually marketing (ie. the closed build list, etc.)?

It seems like these guitars got really popular and specific people took advantage of it to hype the hell out of them to make a massive profit. I wasn't around from the beginning but I get the impression Doug had a specific design philosophy (weight relieving, body thickness, etc.) and people used it to spin hype.

How did Doug contribute to the process? (Knowing that this topic is sometimes touchy, this isn't a bait question. I wasn't here and there are far to many threads about BM to read them all.)


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 17, 2014)

Doug started off building guitars for friends and musicians in London(the majority of which are still with the original owners). When he built one for Pin thats when he started getting popular. He's never marketed or really advertised his guitars except at shows. When Nolly and Misha got their guitars thats when things really exploded. The rest is just word of mouth and threads here. Its owners and fans that have done all the marketing.


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## russmuller (Nov 17, 2014)

Deadnightshade said:


> My point is that in things that you can't have a patent on, don't ask others not to share an aspect of it.



Why not? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Just because it's not something protected by a design patent or copyright doesn't mean the creator can't express their will to have the information not shared.


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## Danukenator (Nov 17, 2014)

russmuller said:


> Why not? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Just because it's not something protected by a design patent or copyright doesn't mean the creator can't express their will to have the information not shared.



You have trade secrets and patents. Someone else can get into the nitty-gritty but you can't make a secret patent.

If patents were secret, then people couldn't know if a concept was patented or not. Like the recipe for Coca-Cola, they chose to keep it secret because they would have to reveal the formula to obtain the patent. 

Disclaimer: I've only studied patents in the context of the industrial revolution. May have gotten stuff incorrect.


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## jwade (Nov 17, 2014)

I think that unless some huge company decides to employ Doug's services, none of this matters. The incredibly low number of guitars produced + customer over-hyping + flipper over-over-hyping = less than no chance to be able to walk into a store and try one and get it for a remotely reasonable price. Whether or not Doug has somehow stumbled across a magic chambering size/pattern/location combination is irrelevant at this point.


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## weirdoku (Nov 18, 2014)

So I'm probably not the first but reading this thread I learnt that Doug is a black dude. I don't know why I'm surprised but I always thought he was some old bearded guy in his late 50s making guitars in his garden shed. Mind blown for about 30 seconds.


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## DancingCloseToU (Nov 18, 2014)

weirdoku said:


> So I'm probably not the first but reading this thread I learnt that Doug is a black dude...



 This brings a whole new meaning to the name "Blackmachine"...


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 18, 2014)

Kids, this is what happens when you let gear flippers and endorsers build hype.

Don't build hype. Please.


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## technomancer (Nov 18, 2014)

TemjinStrife said:


> Kids, this is what happens when you let gear flippers and endorsers build hype.
> 
> Don't build hype. Please.





Don't worry, the profiteers have left Blackmachine since they're too hard to come by to represent a steady revenue stream, they're switching over to Blackwater now.


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## Jake (Nov 18, 2014)

technomancer said:


> Don't worry, the profiteers have left Blackmachine since they're too hard to come by to represent a steady revenue stream, they're switching over to Blackwater now.


 It's true

and well Caparison apparently too


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## AVH (Nov 23, 2014)

I've had 3 BM's come through my shop in the past which I took the opportunity to completely tear apart and scrutinize. I have my own opinions about some aspects of the workmanship, but make no mistake - there's no magical fairydust going on with these guitars, and any seasoned luthier/tech can easily see what's going on with these upon close inspection inside and out, particularly with this chambering nonsense. I took detailed pics of a couple, and dug this one out after determining the approximate chamber placement by tap and brush technique. It isn't rocket science guys, nor is there anything particularly special about the construction aspects of these guitars. Sure, they're nice guitars overall, but they're certainly not the solidbody unicorns many hype these to be.


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## ihunda (Nov 23, 2014)

^Ok thanks, now kids are going to drill holes in perfectly fine, good old RGs...


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## technomancer (Nov 23, 2014)

ihunda said:


> ^Ok thanks, now kids are going to drill holes in perfectly fine, good old RGs...


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## asfeir (Nov 23, 2014)

Sorry I had to do this


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## Prophetable (Nov 23, 2014)

I should have known Blackmachine was a Masonic Illuminati conspiracy. Obama probably has the NSA watch our communications about their chambering.


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## ormsby guitars (Nov 24, 2014)

A circle. An oval. And a roughly routed rectangle. Brilliant!!!


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 24, 2014)

ihunda said:


> ^Ok thanks, now kids are going to drill holes in perfectly fine, good old RGs...



I put my guitar on my lap and tried to drill it. Now I have a second peehole.


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## immortalx (Nov 24, 2014)

Deadnightshade said:


> I put my guitar on my lap and tried to drill it. Now I have a second peehole.


Having a spare peehole is always good for long beer drinking sessions


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## Andromalia (Nov 24, 2014)

narad said:


> Not quite. It's absolutely not going to be anything special, seriously, but he has every right to keep it secret as the guy who put in the time to come up with something he liked and wanted on his guitars.



If that's just a marketing trick it would be a good thing for the consumers to be informed of it.
That secrecy seems an awfully convenient way of making the claims the chambering is actually special pretty much unverifiable.
The smart thing to do for him and consumers both would be to trademark it and sell licences like Strandberg does with the endurneck. 
Otherwise I'm inclined to believe this is just a marketing trick, and that BM owners just want their guitars to keep their value.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 24, 2014)

^You are way over thinking it. Its just something he knows can't be copied. Like all the other features in his guitars he believes the chambering adds to the tone, even if its minor its something he does on all his guitars to give them their sound. It doesn't make up the sound, For Blackmachine(and all guitars) its the sum of its parts.


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## Pikka Bird (Nov 24, 2014)

DancingCloseToU said:


> This brings a whole new meaning to the name "Blackmachine"...



Come to think of it, has anybody haphazardly stumbled onto that... errmm, _other_ Blackmachine website because they thought they had the right URL?


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## molsoncanadian (Nov 24, 2014)

Deadnightshade said:


> I put my guitar on my lap and tried to drill it. Now I have a second peehole.


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## Danukenator (Nov 24, 2014)

I remember when a specific user was talking about how the chambering on his BM made it the best sounding...whatever.

Then someone pointed out that his B6 wasn't chambered.


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## Deadnightshade (Nov 25, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> ^You are way over thinking it. Its just something he knows can't be copied. Like all the other features in his guitars he believes the chambering adds to the tone, even if its minor its something he does on all his guitars to give them their sound. It doesn't make up the sound, For Blackmachine(and all guitars) its the sum of its parts.



If it's minor, then why does the comment in his video makes it seem like that's the thing that differentiates it from copies and "makes it work" ? It just doesn't add up, if you're so confident about your product not being truly replicated even if they have the basic woodworking design.




Pikka Bird said:


> Come to think of it, has anybody haphazardly stumbled onto that... errmm, _other_ Blackmachine website because they thought they had the right URL?



You tell me... When I was a bit of a more sombre guy I used to listen to Virgin Black. Googling the name was awkward EVERY time 



Danukenator said:


> I remember when a specific user was talking about how the chambering on his BM made it the best sounding...whatever.
> 
> Then someone pointed out that his B6 wasn't chambered.



It's the chambering in the wood pores you dumb-dumb


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## Pikka Bird (Nov 25, 2014)

Deadnightshade said:


> If it's minor, then why does the comment in his video makes it seem like that's the thing that differentiates it from copies and "makes it work" ? It just doesn't add up, if you're so confident about your product not being truly replicated even if they have the basic woodworking design.



I don't know if that's what I think he means or not. I can't blame him for wanting to create the belief that there still is a tangible difference between his originals and the imitators but no matter what factor he could choose to highlight you'd still get people saying "That's just voodoo BS and makes no difference". Like, he could've said he's got a really specific process for wood selection and someone here would say "But tonewood is a myth, so that's just crap".

I do agree that he has no _right_ to have people help him keep his secrets, but at the same time it's just what a nice guy would do for a dude who's poured his passion into his guitars. I can totally respect him not wanting to put everything on the slab for imitators to copy given the amount of pretty much 1:1 rips we're seeing around here, including people asking for 100% accurate body and headstock templates. Even though I've got no horse in this race (and I don't even like the HS design) I'm still not totally fine with people doing it like that. Pay homage, don't rip as completely as you can.



Deadnightshade said:


> You tell me... When I was a bit of a more sombre guy I used to listen to Virgin Black. Googling the name was awkward EVERY time


Ha ha! I haven't got a clue who that is but I can imagine the hits that'd give you.  Thank god Google has put that extra filter on search results, just in case you're searching from school/work/library computers.


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## hairychris (Nov 25, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Doug started off building guitars for friends and musicians in London(the majority of which are still with the original owners). When he built one for Pin thats when he started getting popular. He's never marketed or really advertised his guitars except at shows. When Nolly and Misha got their guitars thats when things really exploded. The rest is just word of mouth and threads here. Its owners and fans that have done all the marketing.



Yep, and tbh it's not *most* of the owners who are hyping. Well, or at least not the owners who are flipping them, in other words the long-time owners.

I've watched the whole hype-train with a degree of horror, to be honest.

I'll probably be called hypocritical for saying this but I am in the process of getting rid of one of mine. I am benefiting from the hype, but am pretty gutted that it's going out the door to pay for legal & other fees associated with buying an apartment. I've done this *off* ss.org & similar for the simple reason that although I could have got a chunk more cash I was not willing to deal with the associated bullshit.

And no - anyone who reads this and is tempted to try it on - I will not answer PMs regarding it.

In fact I surprised that this thread hasn't been locked and everyone banned!


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## narad (Nov 25, 2014)

Andromalia said:


> If that's just a marketing trick it would be a good thing for the consumers to be informed of it.
> That secrecy seems an awfully convenient way of making the claims the chambering is actually special pretty much unverifiable.
> The smart thing to do for him and consumers both would be to trademark it and sell licences like Strandberg does with the endurneck.
> Otherwise I'm inclined to believe this is just a marketing trick, and that BM owners just want their guitars to keep their value.



I can not stress this enough: you cannot market something if you never advertise it, if you never mention it. That is what it means for it to be a marketing trick -- when in fact Doug never officially mentions the chambering on his website, on forums, on anything official. Just one off-hand comment at an expo that someone caught on camera. The attempts to keep it secret are not made by Doug, but by people who think you have a right to keep secret the things you learn by trial and error. The hype regarding the chambering is _solely_ generated by the number of people who want to see them, so you're really just adding fuel to the fire in some self-fulfilling prophecy that these chambers are at all important.

The idea of selling licenses is completely ridiculous because it also assumes that the guitar you are building is a blackmachine copy - a.) if the chambering is so specific, it's obviously completely inappropriate in an explorer, sg, or some builder's own design, and b.) you're not going to offer a license to someone ripping off your guitar, and the person ripping it off is clearly not going to feel ethically obligated to buy it. 



hairychris said:


> I'll probably be called hypocritical for saying this but I am in the process of getting rid of one of mine. I am benefiting from the hype, but am pretty gutted that it's going out the door to pay for legal & other fees associated with buying an apartment. I've done this *off* ss.org & similar for the simple reason that although I could have got a chunk more cash I was not willing to deal with the associated bullshit.



Better that it pays $12k of your legal fees than $3k! And some guy who has nothing better to do with $12k than buy your guitar pays for it - what's the downside! haha


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## canuck brian (Nov 25, 2014)

Danukenator said:


> I remember when a specific user was talking about how the chambering on his BM made it the best sounding...whatever.
> 
> Then someone pointed out that his B6 wasn't chambered.


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## 0 Xero 0 (Dec 17, 2014)

Not to add to the fire, but the specs for this guitar mention chambering specifically. Granted, I'm sure Doug has changed his method since then, but still...
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/88616-gotm-june-2009-hairychris-blackmachine-b7.html


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## Neilzord (Dec 17, 2014)

"FWIW he only chambers his mahogany guitars, swamp ash are solid" 

Well I never knew that!


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## hairychris (Dec 17, 2014)

I recognise that guitar....


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## narad (Dec 17, 2014)

0 Xero 0 said:


> Not to add to the fire, but the specs for this guitar mention chambering specifically. Granted, I'm sure Doug has changed his method since then, but still...
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/88616-gotm-june-2009-hairychris-blackmachine-b7.html



We know that they're chambered. We know that one's chambered (Hi Chris ). I think the point was that Doug wasn't advertising them as chambered/making a fuss about it whatsoever.


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