# Osama Bin Laden dead: Obama making some inportant announcement at 10:50pm 5/1/2011



## highlordmugfug

Something important about national security, turn on the news guys.

EDIT: All I know right now is that Fox is saying they killed Osama Bin Laden, every other station is saying they're not sure and they don't want to over-speculate.

EDIT AGAIN: CNN is now saying they have heard from administrative and congressional sources that they are convinced they have the body of Osama bin laden and that he has been killed.


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## Xiphos68

Hmmm...this is very interesting. I've heard recently that people are saying that "Suddam Hussein is alive." Which I'm 100% he's not.


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## jymellis

just said on abc he is dead


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## highlordmugfug

It looks like everyone is saying it now, but still waiting for the official announcement.


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## Blind Theory

My God! If this is true then that is amazing!


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## Hemi-Powered Drone

...I'm not really sure if I can believe this. If he's been on the run for this long, I doubt he didn't have a body double that might be who actually got killed. 

Only time will tell. 

Is awesome if it's true, though.


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## krypter

Apparently they have the body.


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## highlordmugfug

dragonblade629 said:


> ...I'm not really sure if I can believe this. If he's been on the run for this long, I doubt he didn't have a body double that might be who actually got killed.
> 
> Only time will tell.
> 
> Is awesome if it's true, though.


They're saying they have DNA evidence and they've checked.


krypter said:


> Apparently they have the body.


This.

Still waiting for the official report.


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## MaxOfMetal

*Grabs popcorn and waits for the tinfoil hat brigade.*


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## highlordmugfug

My friend pointed out this is 8 years to the day after the Mission Accomplished speech.


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## TXDeathMetal

Dean Guitars is already hard at work making his signature series guitar, be on the look for it at Summer NAMM there kiddies.


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## The Somberlain

I'll sit on the fence about this till the announcement.


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## highlordmugfug

Killed outside of a mansion outside Islamabad, Pakistan with members of his family.
EDIT: Just updating with new information as they report it, considering it all speculation until the official announcement. Apparently it has been confirmed now though.


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## The McThief

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA


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## themike




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## Blind Theory

Sum' bitch is dead! DNA evidence and they have the body! Like the video above says...AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!


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## Opeth666

believe it when I see it?? but if it is true then thats great news


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## ittoa666

If you think about it, this really doesn't mean much. We got our revenge, and I don't think he's been doing much of anything other than hiding out. It's very good news, but I believe Sadam was more of a threat, or even Momar. 

Either way, my patriotic happiness meter is high.


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## highlordmugfug

Insackclothandashes said:


> Sum' bitch is dead! DNA evidence and they have the body! Like the video above says...AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!


What station are you watching?

I mean, I've heard this, but I want the most definite answers, from as many sources as possible.


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## DesertBurst

If this news is trve....I am trvly happy.


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## DesertBurst

highlordmugfug said:


> What station are you watching?
> 
> I mean, I've heard this, but I want the most definite answers, from as many sources as possible.



Bin Laden is dead, sources say &#8211; This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

"U.S. President Barack Obama is expected to address the nation shortly."


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## Chickenhawk

highlordmugfug said:


> My friend pointed out this is 7 years to the day after the Mission Accomplished speech.



8 years 

Show me pictures, and the DNA proof and I'll believe it. We've had SEAL/s, Special Forces and Delta hunting him for what seems like a hundred years (including CIA and Delta in Pakistan), and NOW we find him?  (just in time for the Presidential Campaign)


EDIT:

Regardless of whether he's dead or not, Al Queda is still just as much of a threat...even more so now if he's really dead.

But, bring it. I dare anybody to face the American Military head on...


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## Blind Theory

highlordmugfug said:


> What station are you watching?
> 
> I mean, I've heard this, but I want the most definite answers, from as many sources as possible.



Switching between CNN and FOX and they are all saying the same stuff. I know the tin foil community will all say, "I'll believe it when Obama says so!" but it is pretty hard to not believe this. Seriously, it would be a HUGE fuck up for the government to say he is dead and then have him not be dead...that just wouldn't seem right.


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## highlordmugfug

Chickenhawk said:


> 8 years
> 
> Show me pictures, and the DNA proof and I'll believe it. We've had SEAL/s, Special Forces and Delta hunting him for what seems like a hundred years (including CIA and Delta in Pakistan), and NOW we find him?  (just in time for the Presidential Campaign)


Curse these keys being close together 

So cynical, we are.


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## technomancer

I love watching correspondents ramble and say the same shit over and over and over to fill space while they wait for an official press conference 

Let me take a moment to say


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## Blind Theory

Chickenhawk said:


> 8 years
> 
> Show me pictures, and the DNA proof and I'll believe it. We've had SEAL/s, Special Forces and Delta hunting him for what seems like a hundred years (including CIA and Delta in Pakistan), and NOW we find him?  (just in time for the Presidential Campaign)



Have a little faith in the United States. It shouldn't matter that it happened around the presidential campaign, the fact is they got the mother fucker.


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## Chickenhawk

highlordmugfug said:


> Curse these keys being close together
> 
> So cynical, we are.



For the record, I put that info on Facebook, and said 7 years


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## Opeth666

YouTube - Dethklok - Laser Cannon Death Sentence

excellent triumphant song


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## Treeunit212

All I'm thinking is if gas prices don't go down, i'm gonna be pissed...


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## leandroab

This is fucking great.. But it doesn't change a god damn thing :/


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## highlordmugfug

Chickenhawk said:


> For the record, I put that info on Facebook, and said 7 years


 Me too. I copy pasted what I had here.


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## TXDeathMetal

I find it rather convenient that they are announcing that he's dead in Obama's last year of his term of Presidency right as the election race is about to heat up... nice publicity stunt to gain support Obama. What's worse is that he history books will probably make him out to be a great President just because of this when he actually did nothing, just like that Nobel Peace Prize he won for doing absolutely nothing. Also those terrorists are like a mob, one guy gets taken out, the next in line moves up in rank so really the problem still exists unless we take 'em all out at once


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## ittoa666

My friend just said, "What if Obama comes out of the whitehouse for the press conference, loosens his tie, pulls out a whisky bottle and shotglass, slams one back, and says "That one's for America. Peace you punk bitches.""


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## Origin

I already see people on the internet piping up about conspiracy theories...looks like my retard alert might break from over-use tonight. 

Giddy with anticipation to hear/see confirmation of that asshole's death.


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## highlordmugfug

Official announcement is on now, Obama's already said it.


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## highlordmugfug

CLICK HERE FOR CNN on Justin.tv
The White House
Live feeds.


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## themike

TXDeathMetal said:


> I find it rather convenient that they are announcing that he's dead in Obama's last year of his term of Presidency right as the election race is about to heat up... nice publicity stunt to gain support Obama. What's worse is that he history books will probably make him out to be a great President just because of this when he actually did nothing, just like that Nobel Peace Prize he won for doing absolutely nothing. Also those terrorists are like a mob, one guy gets taken out, the next in line moves up in rank so really the problem still exists unless we take 'em all out at once



Yeah your right. Its totally a publicity stunt. Good call


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## Chickenhawk

DELTA SHOT HIM IN THE FUCKING FACE!


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## DVRP

Not to shit on America's parade, but I think its absurd that anyone thinks this changes anything. In theory should they not pull the troops out now?


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## Chickenhawk

DVRP said:


> Not to shit on America's parade,



Then don't.

This man is the figurehead of an organization that has caused millions of American's countless hardships, and because of our efforts to fix what he's done, our country is in some of the worst shape it's ever been.

I'm sure most of America realizes that it's not over, but let us celebrate this victory.


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## highlordmugfug

DVRP said:


> Not to shit on America's parade, but I think its absurd that anyone thinks this changes anything. In theory should they not pull the troops out now?


Bullshit: taking out a part of their leadership does change things, it doesn't end it, duh, but it's not like it means nothing.


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## themike




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## Blind Theory

DVRP said:


> Not to shit on America's parade, but I think its absurd that anyone thinks this changes anything. In theory should they not pull the troops out now?



We all know that this doesn't change much. That doesn't matter and I think that should be more obvious than the fact that it won't change anything. It isn't about winning the whole war for this one moment, it is that the man who was responsible for killing over 3,000 people in one day is officially dead. It gives hope to the U.S. citizens. So even though you are saying you don't mean to, you are very intentionally trying to "shit on America's parade."


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## DVRP

I just don't like the ignorance involved with this, at that I'm leaving this thread.


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## Daemoniac

Chickenhawk said:


> Then don't.
> 
> This man is the figurehead of an organization that has caused millions of American's countless hardships, and because of our efforts to fix what he's done, our country is in some of the worst shape it's ever been.



I'm sorry, but the reason your country is in such shit shape is because you had a moron for a president who spent trillions of dollars on a war that can never be "won," based on vagaries and outright lies, ignoring, forgetting or just not caring about the fact that having so much debt just might be bad for the economy...

EDIT: Also; "millions of American's countless hardships"... really?


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## Mindcrime1204

This is really gonna get the 'Bama haters/Anti-American/Anti-War people roughed up


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## Chickenhawk

Daemoniac said:


> I'm sorry, but the reason your country is in such shit shape is because you had a moron for a president who spent trillions of dollars on a war that can never be "won," based on vagaries and outright lies.
> 
> EDIT: Also; "millions of American's countless hardships"... really?



So, your friend/husband/wife/brother/sister/etc goes to war and gets killed doesn't return in countless hardships?

And we wouldn't have had two wars going on if Osama didn't attack us.

Why is this turning into a 'lets criticizes everybody thats happy' thread. I personally know people that came back from Afghan in boxes because of this shithead. You don't have to be excited, but goddamn it, I will be. And nothing you say is going to take this victory away from me. (not only you, Daemon...that's to everybody that tries shitting on my fucking parade).

I'm now going to go get drunk, and avoid this thread at all costs.


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## 5656130

I think its funny that we didnt go in and get him. We hit him with a bomb...on accident.


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## djpharoah

Fuck the royal wedding


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## highlordmugfug

DVRP said:


> Not to shit on America's parade, but I think its absurd that anyone thinks this changes anything. In theory should they not pull the troops out now?





DVRP said:


> I just don't like the ignorance involved with this, at that I'm leaving this thread.





Daemoniac said:


> I'm sorry, but the reason your country is in such shit shape is because you had a moron for a president who spent trillions of dollars on a war that can never be "won," based on vagaries and outright lies, ignoring, forgetting or just not caring about the fact that having so much debt just might be bad for the economy...
> 
> EDIT: Also; "millions of American's countless hardships"... really?


I'm sorry, but is there a reason you guy's came into this thread to try and start shit?


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## ivancic1al

Chickenhawk said:


> DELTA SHOT HIM IN THE FUCKING FACE!


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## The Somberlain

Well, seems legit. It won't change much, but It will finally get us to stop bitchin' at each other for two minutes.


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## Blind Theory

This is going to sound ignorant and it is used all too much but, I find it funny people who reside in other countries are critiquing us on our celebrations for something that is harder for them to understand. I know that there are people from other countries that are related to people who died on 9/11 and have had family members serve with the United States in the war (whether their lives lost or not) that can relate but I am not talking about those people. I'll leave it at this. The family I was raised in are God-fearing, gun-toting patriots to this country, have served and gone over seas to Iraq and taught me to be patriotic towards this country as well. This is a subject that hits home and gets me easily and quickly heated...so if I offend anyone....sorry?


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## themike

Apparently Osama's location was given up when he pre-ordered his copy of "Dream Theater - Finding The Drummer" on DVD to be shipped to his place.


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## krypter

Wow. 

People already saying its a publicity stunt huh? Fuck guys.....thats a sad, sorry state of affairs when THATS where your mind goes. I mean....really?


Yea...publicity stunt. Right. Got ya.


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## Daemoniac

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm sorry, but is there a reason you guy's came into this thread to try and start shit?



I came into this thread pleased, which then turned to massive facepalming when I saw some truly stupid blanket statements being made.

Yes, it is a good thing he is dead. Yes he was not a good person. Yes he was the leader of an organisation that was anti-everything the US holds dear, but that is _not_ to say he is the reason the US economy is in the shitter, the reason Iraq was invaded or that he is the reason your friends puppy got kicked in the head and to even assert otherwise is blind ignorance.


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## Mindcrime1204




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## ZackP3750

Bee. Eff. Dee. There will be someone to replace him, and I'd bet within 6 months we hear a new name that will be the leader of al-Queda. And the cycle continues...


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## Chickenhawk

5656130 said:


> I think its funny that we didnt go in and get him. We hit him with a bomb...on accident.



Wrong. 

We DID send a 'small group of Americans' in and after a 'short firefight', we killed him.

Which means: We sent Delta, or a SEAL team, or maybe a CIA team (highly doubtful, since the company can't seem to wipe their own asses without a million more dollars in their budget), and they shot him.

EDIT:

Small group of Americans is what the POTUS said, not a 'covert unit'.


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## Grand Moff Tim

I won't believe it until I see his long-form birth certificate.


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## Waelstrum

I'm normally quite the pacifist, and am not a fan of the death-penalty. However, I will an exception and way this: FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK! YOU DIED, BITCH!


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## highlordmugfug

Daemoniac said:


> to say he is the reason the US economy is in the shitter, the reason Iraq was invaded or that he is the reason your friends puppy got kicked in the head and to even assert otherwise is blind ignorance.


No one really said that, and since 9/11 was used an excuse by a lot of people to go to war in Iraq, it could be argued that Osama was partly to blame for it.

Regardless: you and that other guy coming in here to stir up shit during this, especially right after it's happened and we've all found out just makes you look like huge assholes.


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## DVRP

No I didnt come in here to start shit. I came in here to voice my opinion on this. Which is my right to do. I understand why everyone is happy and celebrating; power to ya. I have friends in the Canadian forces as well who HAVE been affected by this fyi. Is it not allowed to bring an opposing opinion to the table? 

Maybe consider changing the thread title to "Osama is dead, lets celebrate" so people know its only about celebrating his death.


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## krypter

Daemoniac said:


> I came into this thread pleased, which then turned to massive facepalming when I saw some truly stupid blanket statements being made.
> 
> Yes, it is a good thing he is dead. Yes he was not a good person. Yes he was the leader of an organisation that was anti-everything the US holds dear, but that is _not_ to say he is the reason the US economy is in the shitter, the reason Iraq was invaded or that he is the reason your friends puppy got kicked in the head and to even assert otherwise is blind ignorance.




everything in red was Bush. 

Just sayin. 


Still, its a pretty good deal. We got him, he was responsible for 9/11. All blabberly political shit aside, we (americans) can be happy about that. Reality doesn't change. My friends are STILL in the 'Ghanistan tomorrow, and the next day, and so on. And this will probably only make it worse, temporarily speaking, 

But in the end, we still got him. Good old-fasioned soldiering got him. Thats pretty awesome.


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## Daemoniac

ZackP3750 said:


> Bee. Eff. Dee. There will be someone to replace him, and I'd bet within 6 months we hear a new name that will be the leader of al-Queda. And the cycle continues...





Morale wise, this is a great start and no doubt the feeling that we haven't been "at war" for nearly 10 years with no success will be elated a bit, and it will certainly be good for Obama's PR, but I agree that this will probably be short lived.


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## highlordmugfug

DVRP said:


> No I didnt come in here to start shit. I came in here to voice my opinion on this. Which is my right to do. I understand why everyone is happy and celebrating; power to ya. I have friends in the Canadian forces as well who HAVE been affected by this fyi. Is it not allowed to bring an opposing opinion to the table?
> 
> Maybe consider changing the thread title to "Osama is dead, lets celebrate" so people know its only about celebrating his death.


No one said it was all over, which is why you saying that anyone who thinks it changes things is being absurd, isn't presenting a counterargument, it's just insulting our intelligence, that's how at least two of us took it anyway.


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## Daemoniac

krypter said:


> everything in red was Bush.
> 
> Just sayin.



That's exactly what that post said  And my post before it.


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## ivancic1al

[sarcasm] The real publicity stunt is that this news came on the night before the Canadian federal election. Coincidence?  [/sarcasm]


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## highlordmugfug

Daemoniac said:


> That's exactly what that post said  And my post before it.


We're not sending DELTA after Bush though, moot point


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## Blind Theory

DVRP said:


> Maybe consider changing the thread title to "Osama is dead, lets celebrate" so people know its only about celebrating his death.



Coming into this thread you knew DAMN well and good what it was about and that people would celebrate this. It would take a fucking idiot to think otherwise. So stop trying to act like you didn't do anything intentionally, no where in the original post was this about, "Osama is dead! Please, come talk shit to people who are happy because they got SOME closure after a loved one died in combat or start talking about the economy because you have nothing better to do on a Sunday night!" so stop trying to make it about that. If you are so intent on trying to shit on our parade make your own damn thread and bitch and moan in there.


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## Ibanezsam4

is this the end? no. does this fix anything? not really. we had cut him off from his network for a while. 

but for those who are "facepalming" when looking at this thread. put down your keyboard and walk away. words cant describe what its like to turn on your tv when you're ten years old and seeing what you know to be bodies falling from a burning tower. and i cant tell you what its like to hear this news... im almost to the point where my eyes are a little hazy.. just re-living what happened all those years ago and now its resolution. it makes me glad...


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## Daemoniac

highlordmugfug said:


> We're not sending DELTA after Bush though, moot point



Shame, really


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## DVRP

I just find it very funny I say one thing thats on my mind pertaining to a situation and it gets taken as me trying to start something. I'm really not trying to start anything at all. This thread isnt called lets celebrate his death. I hoped to come in here and see what other people thought, instead I'll be leaving with unsigned neg rep.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone

II still need more proof. CNN has said they only assume there is DNA evidence. Where would they have gotten the DNA to compare it to? How would they have done it by now if it just happened today?


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## highlordmugfug

DVRP said:


> I just find it very funny I say one thing thats on my mind pertaining to a situation and it gets taken as me trying to start something. I'm really not trying to start anything at all. This thread isnt called lets celebrate his death. I hoped to come in here and see what other people thought, instead I'll be leaving with unsigned neg rep.


When I said Daemon was being inflammatory, he gave reasons for what he said, and elaborated, you said that we we're being ignorant and that you were leaving: See why no one's bothered by him anymore?

Weren't you leaving?


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## highlordmugfug

dragonblade629 said:


> II still need more proof. CNN has said they only assume there is DNA evidence. Where would they have gotten the DNA to compare it to? How would they have done it by now if it just happened today?


I'm also waiting to see what all unfolds in the next few days: hopefully a lot more news soon.


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## Blind Theory

dragonblade629 said:


> II still need more proof. CNN has said they only assume there is DNA evidence. Where would they have gotten the DNA to compare it to? How would they have done it by now if it just happened today?



Did you not watch Obama give the speech?
He didn't elaborate on the DNA evidence but the President of the United States is some damn good any-kind-of-evidence if I've ever seen any.


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## Daemoniac

highlordmugfug said:


> When I said Daemon was being inflammatory, he gave reasons for what he said, and elaborated, you said that we we're being ignorant and that you were leaving: See why no one's bothered by him anymore?
> 
> Weren't you leaving?



 I'm all for celebrating, but lets celebrate the facts not the media spin. I get that it seems like I'm being insensitive, I just don't think it's a good thing that people are so willing to celebrate his death for reasons that have nothing to do with the guy.

All of that aside though, he was not a good person to begin with, and frankly the world could do with less of them so  on that front.


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## Xiphos68

I don't feel good about what has happened. I believe if it's truly, true of what has happened. 

Then Al-Queda is not happy about it, I pray to God for protection over this nation. 
But to me this doesn't look good.


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## The McThief

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

Edit: I'm done spamming, my bad guys. I think it's awesome we finally got rid of this douche bag, but I fear that the Al Qaeda might retaliate D:


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## djpharoah

*Guys - can we please take the discussion seriously and stay on topic? Please don't try to stir the pot especially when this is a very emotional subject for a lot of Americans.

*


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## highlordmugfug

Daemoniac said:


> I'm all for celebrating, but lets celebrate the facts not the media spin. I get that it seems like I'm being insensitive, I just don't think it's a good thing that people are so willing to celebrate his death for reasons that have nothing to do with the guy.
> 
> All of that aside though, he was not a good person to begin with, and frankly the world could do with less of them so  on that front.


I understand what you're saying, but I don't really see any of that this thread really. I didn't notice any at least.


Also this:
Dollar gains, Osama bin Laden reportedly dead Currencies - MarketWatch

Shocking, eh?


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## DVRP

> I'm all for celebrating, but lets celebrate the facts not the media spin. I get that it seems like I'm being insensitive, I just don't think it's a good thing that people are so willing to celebrate his death for reasons that have nothing to do with the guy.
> 
> All of that aside though, he was not a good person to begin with, and frankly the world could do with less of them so on that front.



Daemon is clearly more articulate with his words than I am. I have trouble trying to get my point across . What he just said is what I was trying to convey. Thats it.


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## Ibanezsam4

dragonblade629 said:


> Where would they have gotten the DNA to compare it to? How would they have done it by now if it just happened today?



DNA could be obtained by inspecting any room he was known to occupy before, basic forensics there.. the 2nd part not sure.. does anyone know precisely when this occurred? they could've delayed the news a few hours so they could confirm before making an announcement


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## -42-

The views for "America Fuck Yeah" are going up exponentially as we speak.


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## highlordmugfug

Xiphos68 said:


> I don't feel good about what has happened. I believe if it's truly, true of what has happened.
> 
> Then Al-Queda is not happy about it, I pray to God for protection over this nation.
> But to me this doesn't look good.


They threatened last week,
Al-Qaeda threatens nuclear hellstorm if Osama is caught or killed
But I'm willing to bet it's a threat and nothing more. Oh I'm sure they'll do something, or at least attempt to: but a nuclear assault? Highly unlikely.



Ibanezsam4 said:


> DNA could be obtained by inspecting any room he was known to occupy before, basic forensics there.. the 2nd part not sure.. does anyone know precisely when this occurred? they could've delayed the news a few hours so they could confirm before making an announcement


It happened sometime earlier today, that's all I've heard.


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## Daemoniac

djpharoah said:


> *Guys - can we please take the discussion seriously and stay on topic? Please don't try to stir the pot especially when this is a very emotional subject for a lot of Americans.
> 
> *



My apologies if that was how it came across


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## Blind Theory

highlordmugfug said:


> They threatened last week,
> Al-Qaeda threatens nuclear hellstorm if Osama is caught or killed
> But I'm willing to bet it's a threat and nothing more. Oh I'm sure they'll do something, or at least attempt to: but a nuclear assault? Highly unlikely.
> 
> 
> It happened sometime earlier today, that's all I've heard.



+1

They could sure as hell try but you'd have to be a damn fool to try to go nuclear on the U.S. when you are the middle east. They may have nuclear weapons but we have SO many more. It would be suicide...but I guess they get off on that kind of stuff....


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## ittoa666

Xiphos68 said:


> I don't feel good about what has happened. I believe if it's truly, true of what has happened.
> 
> Then Al-Queda is not happy about it, I pray to God for protection over this nation.
> But to me this doesn't look good.



I imagine that our defenses will be up in the coming months. The last attack was very unexpected after all.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone

DNA tests take weeks to do,maybe a few days since the government can expidite it, but still much longer than a few hours.


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## highlordmugfug

Insackclothandashes said:


> +1
> 
> They could sure as hell try but you'd have to be a damn fool to try to go nuclear on the U.S. when you are the middle east. They may have nuclear weapons but we have SO many more. It would be suicide...but I guess they get off on that kind of stuff....


According to that article they said they've snuck a nuclear warhead into Europe somewhere, not the US. 

I don't think anything will come of it, honestly.
EDIT: Of the nuclear threat, I am on edge waiting to see what they do try to do.


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## krypter

.....a message i sent to a very good friend currently serving in Afghanistan....

"take solace in your (yes you) small victories at least. Its more proof that a million small steps of the right direction can lead to something. Even if that something is small, its justice. And thats a good thing i think. Tomorrow is a new day, certainly filled with things stemming from this little victory, but for now, a small toast to justice being served on one man responsible for terrible things."


I was lucky enough to be the one to tell him the news via facebook (his night (day? i think its day time there) "off" and we usually talk about cars and music and stuff. We got to watch the Presidential address together while talking about it. He is also concerned that us back home will think this actually changes something....and i don't think that....most likely neither do most of you. But he is like a brother to me and i told him the above. And i mean it. Bullshit posturing aside, politics aside.......left/right aside......right now we had a small victory. For that, and for my friends tiny, yet costly contribution to it all i am incredibly grateful. This doesn't mean the end of war. Certainly it will most likely lead to an increase in violent attacks. At least temporarily. But it does mean that all of the bullshit pandering aside, justice was served. And not at the hands of a "drone" or laser-guided fuck-bomb, but at the hands of a special elite force of US soldiers dedicated to serving this country in spite of all its flaws. It was a fight, perpetrated by a small minded man, but settled by a squad of selfless men. Justice was served. 

Tomorrow we can commence the inevitable American media shit storm of lies, non-logic, self promotion, patriotic chest puffing, paranoia, and general disregard for intelligent discussion.....but thats tomorrow.

Right now, even as a big liberal thrash-hippy 31 year old metal guitar player, all i know is that i'm damn proud that through all the defacation and shit slinging, we still can dole out justice. No matter how long it might take.


----------



## DVRP

ittoa666 said:


> I imagine that our defenses will be up in the coming months. The last attack was very unexpected after all.



Itd be foolish not too. If a radical group like Al-Qeuda's leader is killed I'd imagine a hellstorm would be on its way to whoever did it. Hopefully nothing happens though. Then everything is back at square one.


----------



## pink freud




----------



## highlordmugfug

DVRP said:


> Itd be foolish not too. If a radical group like Al-Qeuda's leader is killed I'd imagine a hellstorm would be on its way to whoever did it. Hopefully nothing happens though. Then everything is back at square one.


I'd think the most likely thing is an increase in/more severe attacks on soldiers stationed in the Middle East


----------



## Mindcrime1204

*We've not forgotten.*

I'll always remember that morning.

That being said, I'd kill to be able to have a few beers with the guys who shot this fucker.


----------



## DVRP

highlordmugfug said:


> I'd think the most likely thing is an increase in/more severe attacks on soldiers stationed in the Middle East



Thats a very scary thought. Things seem to have been relatively mild compared to past wars. Hopefully this isnt the start of WW3....


----------



## groph

*MOD EDIT: Closed. *


----------



## highlordmugfug

pink freud said:


>


----------



## highlordmugfug

groph said:


> *MOD EDIT: Closed. *


That's basically what this thread is, of course we'll be celebrating, and so long as everyone appreciates that Americans are going about be sensitive about it, that's what it'll continue to be.

Also, I see someone else higher up felt that way as well.
EDIT: The response I tried to post before it was closed was:


highlordmugfug said:


> My response can be summed up by my last few posts in the other thread, and most of all by:
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2463137-post76.html


----------



## groph

groph said:


> *MOD EDIT: Closed. *



Balls.

I dearly hope things clear up a bit in the Middle East and hopefully lots of people around the world at least feel some closure.


----------



## Korngod




----------



## Adam Of Angels

For those who are having adverse reactions to the comments that aren't celebratory: would you rather we start a 2nd thread about this subject so that we can discuss a variety of perspectives? or should we keep this subject to one thread, excluding everything but celebration?

None of us are going to be sad over the news of Osama Bin Laden's death. It is justice done, to a varying extents depending on who you ask, and we can all agree on that. 

Go out, celebrate, talk about it, drink, etc. However, it would be wise to resist your emotions, take a look at the big picture and realize that his death is little more than minor setback for Al Qeida.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Adam Of Angels said:


> For those who are having adverse reactions to the comments that aren't celebratory: would you rather we start a 2nd thread about this subject so that we can discuss a variety of perspectives? or should we keep this subject to one thread, excluding everything but celebration?
> 
> None of us are going to be sad over the news of Osama Bin Laden's death. It is justice done, to a varying extents depending on who you ask, and we can all agree on that.
> 
> Go out, celebrate, talk about it, drink, etc. However, it would be wise to resist your emotions, take a look at the big picture and realize that his death is little more than minor setback for Al Qeida.


Already been covered, groph tried and it was closed, this IS that thread you're talking about.

Everyone is discussing what-nows. So long as no one posts something like IT CHANGES NOTHING, YOU GUY'S ARE IGNORANT then it will continue to be a thread discussing it.


----------



## -42-

It had to be posted...


----------



## groph

Adam Of Angels said:


> For those who are having adverse reactions to the comments that aren't celebratory: would you rather we start a 2nd thread about this subject so that we can discuss a variety of perspectives? or should we keep this subject to one thread, excluding everything but celebration?
> 
> None of us are going to be sad over the news of Osama Bin Laden's death. It is justice done, to a varying extents depending on who you ask, and we can all agree on that.
> 
> Go out, celebrate, talk about it, drink, etc. However, it would be wise to resist your emotions, take a look at the big picture and realize that his death is little more than minor setback for Al Qeida.



I just tried making a second thread and it got closed in minutes, maybe in a little while someone could make another once the initial excitement wears off/something else pops up in the news.

EDIT: here's what I said in that thread, might as well put my actual 2 cents in here then

We've all got our opinions, some of them may not be as "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" as others. Personally, when I heard of his death I went "Huh. ...So?" 9/11 was 10 years ago, since then the US has been in the Middle East involved in a war that is probably as controversial as Vietnam, if not more. As it seems, it's not going to stop any time soon, if ever at all. You've got the side that says they're in the war for resources (it SEEMS plausible but I'm in no way whatsoever an expert on foreign policy or Middle Eastern politics), you've got the side that says the whole thing was a government set-up, you've got the side that says Afghanistan/Iraq/wherever actually wants the US and other countries around to help, the whole debate is a controversial clusterfuck so it's natural that Bin Laden's death is going to have a whole ton of implications.

I think it's not going to matter a whole lot. Maybe Al-Qaeda will be silenced for a little while until they get their internal workings back in order; we've only sliced off one of the many heads that just grow right back. "Terrorism" and "terrorists" are not readily identifiable people, they exist everywhere. The Unabomber was a terrorist, if I'm not mistaken, but maybe the media didn't spin him as such. Therefore, I think you can't really fight a "war" against them. If it's a religious thing, then what do you do, commit genocide against all Muslims? Deport Muslims from your country and declare them a dangerous population? This stuff is already happening isn't it? 

You've got innumerable terrorist cells and organizations all over the world that can spring up at any moment, I highly doubt they're organized in such a strict hierarchy that the death of Bin Laden will put an end to terrorism, somebody else will come up, somebody probably has. Bin Laden's death might send the message to "terrorists" (I use quotations not to imply that terrorists are actually great people who the rest of the world is merely misunderstanding, but to imply the general vagueness of the term) that none of them are safe, but 9/11 sent the message that not even the most powerful country in the world is safe from terrorism. Fear really has the world by the balls right now and let's face it, fear is a really easy way to control people. I worry that if the situation worsens, people continue tolerating having liberties and rights taken away, all sorts of tyranny will unfold, using terrorism as a distraction. It makes you think that there really might be an elaborate conspiracy going on but that's just paranoia, which is also distractingly dangerous.

I wish I knew more about the situation in the Middle East, you just hear so many different perspectives it's hard to separate media sensationalism, political agendas, crazy conspiracies, and the actual truth.


----------



## DVRP

Adam Of Angels said:


> For those who are having adverse reactions to the comments that aren't celebratory: would you rather we start a 2nd thread about this subject so that we can discuss a variety of perspectives? or should we keep this subject to one thread, excluding everything but celebration?
> 
> None of us are going to be sad over the news of Osama Bin Laden's death. It is justice done, to a varying extents depending on who you ask, and we can all agree on that.
> 
> Go out, celebrate, talk about it, drink, etc. However, it would be wise to resist your emotions, take a look at the big picture and realize that his death is little more than minor setback for Al Qeida.



I believe we already went through this so no need


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Did I miss the post where someone said "Well, now that he's dead it's all over and it's only going to be rainbows and sunshine!"? I haven't seen it. 

Everyone seems to acknowledge in some way, shape, or form that things are not "over" or going to change dramatically in an immediate, positive way.


----------



## Blind Theory

Mindcrime1204 said:


> *We've not forgotten.*
> 
> I'll always remember that morning.
> 
> That being said, I'd kill to be able to have a few beers with the guys who shot this fucker.



I will give you some rep for this but it can't compare to the mega hand shake I would give you in person! 

I too will never forget! I will not forget that I was in elementary school, Mrs. Owsawski was my teacher. I will never forget waiting at my baby sitters house in the morning to go to school. I will never forget the look on my baby sitters face, terror and shock. I won't ever forget watching t.v. seeing these big buildings I'd never heard about before billowing out black smoke. I will never forget watching them fall down on t.v. and hearing the news anchors gasping. I still have the news paper from that next day with a giant American flag and George Bush and the towers plastered all over it. "9/11: WE WILL NEVER FORGET!" Because there is nothing truer than that statement, I WILL NEVER FORGET.

I too would also like to have a drink with the guys who shot him. I would pay for everything...shit I'd offer to take them to Disney World. haha God bless those men, God bless the men and women who have served, lost their lives or otherwise, and God bless the men and women who serve today. Once again...................






AMERICA!!! FUCK YEAH!!


----------



## groph

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did I miss the post where someone said "Well, now that he's dead it's all over and it's only going to be rainbows and sunshine!"? I haven't seen it.
> 
> Everyone seems to acknowledge in some way, shape, or form that things are not "over" or going to change dramatically.



I'm not watching the news right now, but do you speculate that there's a better chance of the US withdrawing from Afghanistan? Or is the whole Middle East/terrorism fiasco (kind of a flippant word to use here, excuse me) too widespread to withdraw?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

groph said:


> I'm not watching the news right now, but do you speculate that there's a better chance of the US withdrawing from Afghanistan? Or is the whole Middle East/terrorism fiasco (kind of a flippant word to use here, excuse me) too widespread to withdraw?



Better chance? Maybe, but it's not going to be in any way immediate. Perhaps we'll start "withdrawal procedures" or some other overly technical term for very slow movement out of. 

We killed a high profile member of a multicellular, international terrorist organization, not the king of a monarchy.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did I miss the post where someone said "Well, now that he's dead it's all over and it's only going to be rainbows and sunshine!"? I haven't seen it.
> 
> Everyone seems to acknowledge in some way, shape, or form that things are not "over" or going to change dramatically in an immediate, positive way.



I'm not exaggerating people's celebration so much as I am doubting their need to celebrate in any dramatic way, that's all. I'm glad to hear the news, but not nearly thrilled.


----------



## DVRP

groph said:


> I'm not watching the news right now, but do you speculate that there's a better chance of the US withdrawing from Afghanistan? Or is the whole Middle East/terrorism fiasco (kind of a flippant word to use here, excuse me) too widespread to withdraw?



If it were up to me I'd want to get my men out of there as fast as I could. But I'd definitely guess its too wide spread at this point. Im sure alot of men will come home, but not a complete pull out. Its going to take years for that. At least thats what I think at this point.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Adam Of Angels said:


> I'm not exaggerating people's celebration so much as I am doubting their need to celebrate in any dramatic way, that's all. I'm glad to hear the news, but not nearly thrilled.



Regardless of its actual meaning, it does represent the US finally accomplishing a goal it set out to do about a decade ago, so I can see why there would be some celebration.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Adam Of Angels said:


> I'm not exaggerating people's celebration so much as I am doubting their need to celebrate in any dramatic way, that's all. I'm glad to hear the news, but not nearly thrilled.





MaxOfMetal said:


> *We killed a high profile member of a multicellular, international terrorist organization*


 But seriously, I think it's a pretty big deal, I just worry about what'll happen next, like everyone else.


DVRP said:


> If it were up to me I'd want to get my men out of there as fast as I could. But I'd definitely guess its too wide spread at this point. Im sure alot of men will come home, but not a complete pull out. Its going to take years for that. At least thats what I think at this point.


I'd think it'll be a slow pull out, it'll be faster than it would have been otherwise, like Max said, but it'll still take a while. Like I said earlier, I worry most of all about threats to the troops deployed right now.

EDITED because it didn't make sense at first.


----------



## Blind Theory

groph said:


> I'm not watching the news right now, but do you speculate that there's a better chance of the US withdrawing from Afghanistan? Or is the whole Middle East/terrorism fiasco (kind of a flippant word to use here, excuse me) too widespread to withdraw?



We have backed ourselves into a sticky situation. We have already invaded the middle east quite a few times over the past decades which is why we are in a sticky situation. The way I see it, if we pull out now, that leaves us open without any options. We leave, we get attacked again and multiple times. If that happens, we can't just barge back in there again. This would make us look like indecisive little children who don't know what they want to do. 
-Should we invade? 
-Yes! 
-Should we invade again? 
-Yes! Should we invade yet again? 
-We can't anymore! It'll look like a hate crime towards muslims or something bro!!

So we won't be pulling out anytime soon. That is for sure.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Part of terrorism is to terrorize (go figure) by using false threats, to scare those who they oppose. I don't think ground troops, or civilians, are in any more danger than they were while Bin Laden was alive.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Accomplishing any mission is ground for celebration. However, we are without a real objective in Afghanistan, so I don't see Bin Laden's death as a logical reason for or cause of troop withdrawal.


----------



## DVRP

MaxOfMetal said:


> Part of terrorism is to terrorize (go figure) by using false threats, to scare those who they oppose. I don't think ground troops, or civilians, are in any more danger than they were while Bin Laden was alive.



This stands very true. Whatever is going to happen will happen regardless, all you can do is hope for the best and pray for your troops.


----------



## Mindcrime1204

EDIT: answered already


----------



## krypter

All discussions aside for a second...can we all at least stand in awe of the sheer bad-assery that is the US Special Forces? I heard it was a small SEAL team (usually about 6 guys) that went into a completely different country, into a city via a Helo, didn't tell anyone from Pakistan, didn't have support, was completely and 100% covert, dropped down, and took care of business 40 minutes. Eliminating all hostile forces with zero friendly casualties, and took the bad-guy down with a head shot? 

Thats some Jack Bauer shit right there. 

Say what you will about politics and status of celebration and blah blah blah....


But think on that for a second. 


Holy Crap those guys are the very definition of fucking bad -asses. The team must have been made of John Mclean, Batman, Jack Bauer, Obi Wan Kenobi, Jason Bourne and lead by Clint Eastwood...in all his roles. ........_at the same time._


----------



## DVRP

Dude seals are the definition of badass


----------



## Blind Theory

This might lighten things up:

So they are saying that a group of spec op (I assume spec ops) guys got in a firefight and killed him. I wonder if they will release the names of the guys who shot him. Anyone here think so? Because if they did...those guys would be the BIGGEST names on the planet for a few weeks. It would be Oh, so glorious to be them right now. I imagine they got a nice little bonus for doing that anyway. Who ever they are, they are my heroes!!


----------



## krypter

Insackclothandashes said:


> This might lighten things up:
> 
> So they are saying that a group of spec op (I assume spec ops) guys got in a firefight and killed him. I wonder if they will release the names of the guys who shot him. Anyone here think so? Because if they did...those guys would be the BIGGEST names on the planet for a few weeks. It would be Oh, so glorious to be them right now. I imagine they got a nice little bonus for doing that anyway. Who ever they are, they are my heroes!!



I thought on it...and i don't know. im 50/50 either way. I kind of think they won't for absolute security (country and personal-the soldiers sake) reasons.


----------



## Xiphos68

Insackclothandashes said:


> This might lighten things up:
> 
> So they are saying that a group of spec op (I assume spec ops) guys got in a firefight and killed him. I wonder if they will release the names of the guys who shot him. Anyone here think so? Because if they did...those guys would be the BIGGEST names on the planet for a few weeks. It would be Oh, so glorious to be them right now. I imagine they got a nice little bonus for doing that anyway. Who ever they are, they are my heroes!!



No, unless they were given protection by the SS. Which it be best just not to say.

Reason: Al-Queda could come and try to kill them or hurt their families (if they have any), sad but true.
But I'm sure they'll get their reward. Like millions of dollars.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

krypter said:


> I thought on it...and i don't know. im 50/50 either way. I kind of think they won't for absolute security (country and personal-the soldiers sake) reasons.


 
I'd be _really_ surprised if they release their names. Shame, because the dudes deserve a ticker tape parade in NYC, but it comes with the territory.


----------



## groph

MaxOfMetal said:


> Better chance? Maybe, but it's not going to be in any way immediate. Perhaps we'll start "withdrawal procedures" or some other overly technical term for very slow movement out of.
> 
> We killed a high profile member of a multicellular, *international terrorist organization, not the king of a monarchy*.



Exactly, that's pretty much my reaction to this whole thing. The whole issue with terrorism is how nebulous it is, I don't know who to trust. I mean creed and political ideologies aside, if you want to take a crack at my life, it's on. That's simple enough.

Would a total US withdrawal help ease things in the Middle East though? Theoretically the country would save billions in costs (though the corporations* that produce weapons would have much smaller profits), hundreds or thousands of lives would be spared, and maybe there'd even be less pissed off civilians who had lost property or friends and family due to collateral damage with a serious grudge against the US. If these countries get along without what we call "democracy," then let them. 


DISCLAIMER - I'm REALLY not trying to slap anyone in the face here with my "pie in the sky, communist hippie wonder world" viewpoints, war is ugly, it's real, and it's probably very, very scary. It sucks. I have family members in the military, and while I might not support a mission, I definitely support a friend or family member who is having bullets whiz past their head on a daily basis.

Terrorism might indeed be a worldwide threat, but why is it so necessary to terrorize communities? Maybe "terrorize" is a really bad word to use here since there are people in the service and many more who know people in the service, but just pretend that your neighborhood is occupied by a military force who is armed *to the teeth* that routinely barges into your homes, looking for strange people and weapons hidden everywhere? You probably wouldn't like them much at all and you'd probably fear for your life every time you see one of them. Being on the receiving end of US military technology must be terrifying, hence the word. 

Still, how else do you locate and dispense with terrorists? Do we just pull out and see if the whole problem of terrorism subsides, risking lives in the process? Most of the victims of suicide attacks seem to be native civilians rather than US soldiers. Are countries like Iraq and Afghanistan capable of dealing with the problem themselves? Do they actually want the US there? Is the US military effectively being a big, scary police force? These aren't rhetorical questions, I have no clue what's going on over there and I'd like to know more. Somebody says that US involvement in the Middle East is for the good of the "free world," and somebody else says that they're only there for private interests and lots of foul play is involved. Somebody's lying.














*_The horrible, evil corporations of US imperialism_


----------



## ittoa666

DVRP said:


> Itd be foolish not too. If a radical group like Al-Qeuda's leader is killed I'd imagine a hellstorm would be on its way to whoever did it. Hopefully nothing happens though. Then everything is back at square one.


----------



## Blind Theory

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I'd be _really_ surprised if they release their names. Shame, because the dudes deserve a ticker tape parade in NYC, but it comes with the territory.



I know. It was just a thought. They won't. I just wish I knew who they were. They are the most bad ass men on the planet today and that is that.


----------



## highlordmugfug

krypter said:


> All discussions aside for a second...can we all at least stand in awe of the sheer bad-assery that is the US Special Forces? I heard it was a small SEAL team (usually about 6 guys) that went into a completely different country, into a city via a Helo, didn't tell anyone from Pakistan, didn't have support, was completely and 100% covert, dropped down, and took care of business 40 minutes. Eliminating all hostile forces with zero friendly casualties, and took the bad-guy down with a head shot?
> 
> Thats some Jack Bauer shit right there.
> 
> Say what you will about politics and status of celebration and blah blah blah....
> 
> 
> But think on that for a second.
> 
> 
> Holy Crap those guys are the very definition of fucking bad -asses. The team must have been made of John Mclean, Batman, Jack Bauer, Obi Wan Kenobi, Jason Bourne and lead by Clint Eastwood...in all his roles. ........_at the same time._


----------



## MaxOfMetal

And there lies the biggest problem in this entire conundrum. There is no "right" answer to the withdrawal question. No one (no matter which side they're on) knows what would happen if we pull out tomorrow, next week, month, year, etc. Just like no one knows what will happen if we stay there for the next century. 

What we do know is that us leaving the middle east is NOT going to end extremist Muslim violence and terrorism directed at the Western World (it's not just the US they hate, as much as some like to believe, we're just the big fish). At least not in this generation, and arguably not the next.

EDIT: Directed to *groph*.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand my friend is already spinning this as a reason Obama is a shitty president. Hooray, politics.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaaaand my friend is already spinning this as a reason Obama is a shitty president. Hooray, politics.


It was only a matter of time anyway.
EDIT: I am morbidly curious about what stupid thing they have to say about this, PM me if you don't post it please.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

She says we've apparently known of his whereabout for months now (since September, though she sites no sources), so us not catching him sooner than now is somehow a failure on Obama's part.


That sound you hear is your brain crying.

EDIT: I have now come across others saying there's been intelligence being gathered on his location since November, so at least that bit wasn't far off. Still, though. Ugh.


----------



## Blind Theory

I had a german foreign exchange student tell me Bush was behind 9/11 because no one would believe he killed 3,000+ of his citizens. All that because osama was killed....crazy tin foil folk.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Insackclothandashes said:


> I had a german foreign exchange student tell me Bush was behind 9/11 because no one would believe he killed 3,000+ of his citizens. All that because osama was killed....crazy tin foil folk.



*The first member of our illustrious SSO Tin Foil Hat Club to turn this into a "9/11 was an inside job" thread gets perma'd. No joke. *


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I'm not affiliated with the SSO Tin Foil Hat Brigade. I simply don't condone investing emotion and belief in things you can't possibly be certain of. This also has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

/off-topic'edness


----------



## Daemoniac

Alright, the more I hear and the more it sinks in, the less happy I am about this. He deserved it and too many good people die for something like this to not happen every now and then to balance out the scales, but the current spin and the picking and choosing of what facts to remember (by our politicians at least, can't speak for the US ones bar Bush) are truly disgusting me, and I simply cannot get "excited" about somebody being killed, no matter how reviled.

Again, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but it's honestly getting to me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Daemoniac said:


> Alright, the more I hear and the more it sinks in, the less happy I am about this. He deserved it and too many good people die for something like this to not happen every now and then to balance out the scales, but the current spin and the picking and choosing of what facts to remember (by our politicians at least, can't speak for the US ones bar Bush) are truly disgusting me, and I simply cannot get "excited" about somebody being killed, no matter how reviled.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but it's honestly getting to me.



I actually haven't watched a second of news here. I'm waiting till mid-week, after things "calm" just a bit. Whenever something big happens I always wait it out a tad so there's more facts and just a pinch less sensationalism.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ That's probably a good plan. I'm actually very upset right now by the whole thing, the entire situation is a huge clusterfuck, and this is just one more death in a war that has cost so many people so, so very much (I'm not just talking American's or Aussies here either...). I cannot be excited about that.

EDIT: To clarify, what is largely upsetting to me is that this apparently makes the war a "success" despite the hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties as a result of the entire campaign which will now be even further buried beneath the bravado of a hungry and overly patriotic media. Not to mention all of the soldiers who have died over the decade since it started to gain next to nothing.


----------



## Prydogga




----------



## maliciousteve

Daemoniac said:


> ^ That's probably a good plan. I'm actually very upset right now by the whole thing, the entire situation is a huge clusterfuck, and this is just one more death in a war that has cost so many people so, so very much (I'm not just talking American's or Aussies here either...). I cannot be excited about that.
> 
> EDIT: To clarify, what is largely upsetting to me is that this apparently makes the war a "success" despite the hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties as a result of the entire campaign which will now be even further buried beneath the bravado of a hungry and overly patriotic media. Not to mention all of the soldiers who have died over the decade since it started to gain next to nothing.



+1

Watching the news and seeing people in the streets of New York like it was the end of something was both confusing, upsetting and made them look naive. 1000's of people have died for all of this but it does not change a damn thing. People are still being killed and will it continue for a long time yet.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

maliciousteve said:


> +1
> 
> Watching the news and seeing people in the streets of New York like it was the end of something was both confusing, upsetting and made them look naive. 1000's of people have died for all of this but it does not change a damn thing. People are still being killed and will it continue for a long time yet.



This is where my comments are coming from - there were people storming the streets in Morgantown, drinking, burning couches, and people belligerently celebrating with sheer joy in front of the white house, amongst other things, as if terrorism and oppression had been defeated.


----------



## maliciousteve

I've just seen on MSNBC that he's been buried at sea.

If this is true then wtf, wouldn't you want to confirm who it is with DNA testing first.


----------



## GazPots

I believe it's islamic tradition to be buried within 24 hours according to the bbc at least.

Plus samples can be taken from the body pre burial.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Grand Moff Tim said:


> She says we've apparently known of his whereabout for months now (since September, though she sites no sources), so us not catching him sooner than now is somehow a failure on Obama's part.
> 
> 
> That sound you hear is your brain crying.
> 
> EDIT: I have now come across others saying there's been intelligence being gathered on his location since November, so at least that bit wasn't far off. Still, though. Ugh.



I dont think people realize how much planning goes into these types of missions/raids.. Theres a reason it went so smooth, 40 mins with no casualities except for the target, its not something you can just say "OK, lets just raid this random mansion!"..

If you watch any TV shows about major raids on the Hell's Angels or even any small-time drug raids.. They often take 6 months to a year also. And thats not nearly half as important as capturing the most wanted man in the world.

Anyways, any cries of "wah it took 6 months to just bust down a door and shoot him?" are ridiculous. Im sure he had tons of escape routes within that building, any sudden movements that wasnt EXACTLY calculated would lead to Osama getting away. It had to be planned out massively to avoid blowing their cover and losing him for another 8 years like in 2003.


----------



## Chickenhawk

EDIT:

Know what? Nevermind. 

Keep chewing on the sensationalized media drivel you're being spoon fed.

I might re-post what I wrote later...when more information is made available to the public, and people quit jumping to uninformed conclusions.

Guess I'm guilty of that too, to an extent I'll explain in a couple days.


Regardless, Bravo Zulu to the men that took him down.


----------



## GazPots

Edit - ^ Yeah it's all bullshit and conspiracy.


----------



## BucketheadRules

CBA to read this whole thread but my  is that by doing this the Americans have essentially put millions and millions of people in danger.

Think about all the reprisal attacks. Every major western city could be screwed.

I appreciate that given the fact they found him, they could have done little else... but it puts so many people in danger now.


----------



## ShadyDavey

djpharoah said:


> *Guys - can we please take the discussion seriously and stay on topic? Please don't try to stir the pot especially when this is a very emotional subject for a lot of Americans.
> 
> *



It's an emotional subject for a lot of people across the globe who have lost friends or family out there due, in part, to OBL. I'm glad he's dead and I'll be hoping that mates of mine get the chance to come back home in one piece.........but the cynic in me is shouting that it ain't all over yet.

Here's to peace, and if that takes a few more scumbags getting one in the eye? 

Small price to pay.


----------



## Kryss

i cant imagine the adrenaline rush that those 6 seals had going in. had to feel like an old school final fantasy game where you know you are about to save the whole world. the funny part is they were probably like.....yup all in a days work. 
USA SEALs = Winning! (the world)


----------



## ShadyDavey

BucketheadRules said:


> CBA to read this whole thread but my  is that by doing this the Americans have essentially put millions and millions of people in danger.
> 
> Think about all the reprisal attacks. Every major western city could be screwed.
> 
> I appreciate that given the fact they found him, they could have done little else... but it puts so many people in danger now.



It ain't all over, and killing OBL wasn't going to be an instant fix......but this isn't a tit for tat exchange....

Those attacks were coming regardless, the timescale has merely been accelerated.


----------



## SD83

It's interesting to directly see/read the reaction this news causes in the USA and other countries, as here in Germany, I got a feeling that about 40% of the people are like "Osama bin what? I kinda remember hearing that name, but I can't remember who he was." and at least another 40% are like "so what?". The rest is either part of the tin foil heads or rather happy about this. I gotta say I'm with the "so what?" people. You didn't really hear anything from him for years (were there any recent videos/speeches?) and in parts at least of the area I live in, he was pretty much about to become a figure from the past, a villain who's role is now restricted to being mentioned on history books pages... and I wonder if this wouldn't have been the best way to deal with it. For as it is now, this might even make him more powerful than he latley was by islamistic propaganda making him a martyr. 
Still I think it's good they finally got him down. There are other people of which I think deserve it more (Kim Yong-il, Robert Mugabe etc.), but this is another madmen dead, good job.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

You know, I haven't seen Tiger posting lately....


----------



## Kurkkuviipale

Yay! Now look what you did. Killed some nobody(He has not been in lead for years) and got a few afghans angry. Gratz.


----------



## walleye

TXDeathMetal said:


> Dean Guitars is already hard at work making his signature series guitar, be on the look for it at Summer NAMM there kiddies.



hahhahaa!
very rarely do i laugh at ss.org


----------



## AySay

I didn't want to comment, but wtf is this?

"America Fuck Yeah!"
"USA USA USA"

Such a juvenile, shallow response. Yeah you finally got a once-important terrorist who has since faded into obscurity. At what cost though? Almost a decade of an unjust war, billions of dollars, tens of thousands of innocent Afghan civilians, increased animosity towards the US. This should be as Stephen Harper (Canada's PM) says, a time of "sober satisfaction" and most of all introspection, to realize that something like the shitstorm that is the Afghan war can not happen again.


----------



## Kurkkuviipale

TXDeathMetal said:


> Dean Guitars is already hard at work making his signature series guitar, be on the look for it at Summer NAMM there kiddies.



This gives me an idea...


----------



## Krauthammer

Alright, so the guy is now officially dead. So, now all our troops can come home now, right? war on terror over? I see the GW Bush said good job, and that the war will continue. Who are we fighting anymore? It seems that we create enemies as we see fit. I personally think its sick that our media is celebrating death the way it is. But at least it got that damn royal wedding off the front page.....


EDIT: All I mean is that I just want this cycle of war to end. Just end the shit. Bring our friends and family back home.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ That's the scary thing with this "war"; it is a war without a clear enemy, and it cannot (and most likely will not) ever end.


----------



## Customisbetter

I really couldn't care less. 

If its on the news, its made up. If the dates match up, its fake. If there is political gain, its bullshit.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

MaxOfMetal said:


> *Grabs popcorn and waits for the tinfoil hat brigade.*



Sorry Max, but if what you're implying is that anyone that doesn't believe the official story regarding this belongs to this group then to be quite honest, I am disappointed. I agree with very little that has been said in this thread, but that doesn't make me a sensationalist.

Like groph said, there are a wealth of different opinions on this issue and the issues related to it. Poking fun in any which direction is essentially useless, as no one argument holds any more water than the opposing argument. It's all a peepshow that we are far seperated from and when it boils down to it, we are all essentially clueless.


----------



## Daemoniac

Scar Symmetry said:


> It's all a peepshow that we are far seperated from and when it boils down to it, we are all essentially clueless.



So true, and it's just another in a long line of facts that makes this entire situation so much more difficult to judge.


----------



## Krauthammer

Daemoniac said:


> ^ That's the scary thing with this "war"; it is a war without a clear enemy, and it cannot (and most likely will not) ever end.



Its really disheartening to think about, but yes, that is the nature of this 'war'. But maybe this will help others open their eyes a bit wider, and see that its always been a sham. As always, i am cautiously optimistic. I guess I still hold out that there still is some good in humanity, and maybe we can stop killing each other some day. But, it would seem that today is not the day. 


"By and large, the American people seem to have accepted permanent war as a natural state, just the way things are and will always be. But perhaps the removal of this all-obscuring symbol from the public consciousness will let a few more chinks of light into a few more minds." -infowars.net


----------



## leandroab

Fucking Fox news!


----------



## Mindcrime1204

EDIT: oops


----------



## Mordacain

leandroab said:


> Fucking Fox news!



Fucking FOX. Those jerks can't even let the bullshit assault rest for a single damn day.

On topic at at hand: Hell Yea! That was the whole point of invading Afghanistan to begin with, and to finally see that objective completed is heartening. Reprisals would have come anyway and its about damn time that Al Queda was terrorized in turn.


----------



## Dan

HURR DURR AMERICA FUCK YEAHHH. WE KILLED HIM DEAD!! DOWN WITH AL QUAEDA...



I honestly tried to get through this thread as calmly as possible but stopped on page 3. Bin Laden. Lets look at the facts shall we:

Taking out Bin Laden is the equivalent of shooting Ronald Mcdonald to stop Mcdonalds. The hamburgers are going to be there, and people are still going to eat there; but there isnt going to be a clown to laugh at when you enter the store anymore. 

Maybe Bin Laden wouldnt have been on Americas most wanted list if throughout the 90's the US government hadn't supplied him with weapons and intel to cause a mess of the middle east? Just saying folks...


----------



## Mindcrime1204

Ummm everyone knows that the war isn't over. Why do outsiders keep bringing it up? lol


----------



## Dan

It's not just about it being the end of the war. its all the OMFG AMERICA FUCK YEAHHHHHH talk. How many years did it take? More to the point however a large part of the reason Bin Laden ended up as such a high power was US help.


----------



## Prydogga

Mindcrime1204 said:


> Ummm* everyone knows that the war isn't over.* Why do outsiders keep bringing it up? lol



That's not at all like the impression this thread, and overall reaction to this event gives.


----------



## Mindcrime1204

"its all the OMFG AMERICA FUCK YEAHHHHHH talk."


this makes you look jealous, imo, as is the feeling i get from a few others in this thread who are talking less and liking more.


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## Murmel

Mindcrime1204 said:


> "its all the OMFG AMERICA FUCK YEAHHHHHH talk."
> 
> 
> *this makes you look jealous, imo,* as is the feeling i get from a few others in this thread who are talking less and liking more.



That part brought me some major lulz


----------



## Prydogga

Please enlighten me on what we are jealous of... 

Also, I like stuff I agree with. Go figure.


----------



## Dan

Mindcrime1204 said:


> "its all the OMFG AMERICA FUCK YEAHHHHHH talk."
> 
> 
> this makes you look jealous, imo, as is the feeling i get from a few others in this thread who are talking less and liking more.



Honestly this shouldn't even warrant a response. I'm jelous that your country provided someone with arms who then 'apparently' proceeded to use them againt you, only for him to go into hiding and take your government with an almost limitless supply of war money near on a decade to kill him?

Bravo sir 

in other news "WHOOPAHHH"


----------



## Mindcrime1204

You refuse to let us be happy and celebrate.


----------



## Murmel

Mindcrime1204 said:


> You refuse to let us be happy and celebrate.


No we're not refusing you to celebrate.
But going all "AWWW YEAH 'MERICA!!!!" is just distasteful..


----------



## Mindcrime1204

Murmel said:


> No we're not refusing you to celebrate.
> But going all "AWWW YEAH 'MERICA!!!!" is just distasteful..


 

If I wanna yell my countrys name in celebration, l will. 

Sorry we all don't feel the same?


----------



## Dan

Mindcrime1204 said:


> You refuse to let us be happy and celebrate.




Once again, what have you got to celebrate? Bravo, you spent an obscene amount of money killing someone when it could have been used to better your countries education or healthcare. Feel free to celebrate dude, i just see it as a waste.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Plug said:


> healthcare.


 
WHoooooooOOooaaAaaAaa! He said the secret word!!!


----------



## Prydogga

I think killing the 'supposed' figurehead of a ruthless group which is still active and hidden isn't that much cause for celebration. I'd celebrate when the quality of life in Iraq rose closer to that of the western world. Which is what I thought we were still in Iraq to accomplish anyway.

Edit: Plug sort of 'd me.


----------



## Greatoliver

Plug said:


> Once again, what have you got to celebrate? Bravo, you spent an obscene amount of money killing someone when it could have been used to better your countries education or healthcare. Feel free to celebrate dude, i just see it as a waste.



I disagree. He was seen as the figure head for what happened at 9/11, and this is seen as putting him to justice. It should hopefully provide a bit of closure for all the families and friends of the people who died or were injured on that day. I think it can be celebrated, but tastefully.... So I agree with you on that behalf.

It did cost a lot of money, but people like this kind of stuff. The effect it has had in America probably feels a lot greater to each person that having the money put into state services... It's stuff like this that really boosts morale, rather than improving everyday life, imho. Not saying that this should happen with everything, but I think in this circumstance, it was justified.

EDIT: I think that a lot of the clash is just because of the different ways people behave around theur countries... America is just more open with their patriotism than the UK etc.


----------



## Mindcrime1204

Plug said:


> Once again, what have you got to celebrate? Bravo, you spent an obscene amount of money killing someone when it could have been used to better your countries education or healthcare. Feel free to celebrate dude, i just see it as a waste.


 

While I appreciate your concern for us, I'm celebrating because to put it simple we finally killed the dude who we've been trying to kill for 10 years.

And because of this our morale has gone up causing us to celebrate and be happy we've accomplished even one small goal.


----------



## synrgy

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

--Mark Twain

Just a quote. I'm not gonna participate in this one any further.


----------



## Dan

Greatoliver said:


> It did cost a lot of money, but people like this kind of stuff. The effect it has had in America probably feels a lot greater to each person that having the money put into state services... It's stuff like this that really boosts morale, rather than improving everyday life, imho. Not saying that this should happen with everything, but I think in this circumstance, it was justified.



So do parties, and cake. They make people feel good too.... 



Mindcrime1204 said:


> While I appreciate your concern for us, I'm celebrating because to put it simple we finally killed the dude who we've been trying to kill for 10 years.



...and you wouldnt have had to spend so long killing him if you hadnt given him the resources to do so. Once again waste of money.


----------



## steve1

personally, I'm not going to celebrate the death of *anyone. *

I wish they had got him alive, death is not justice.


----------



## Randy

The cynicism dripping from this thread is disappointing, to say the least.


----------



## Mordacain

steve1 said:


> personally, I'm not going to celebrate the death of *anyone. *
> 
> I wish they had got him alive, death is not justice.



You want efficiency, death is the way to go. The amount of obscene hatred of the man here would ensure someone would off him.

At least the way way it went down shows two things:

A) We finish what we start (at least with regards to meting out justice). This sends a message to terrorists despite the apparent "who cares" sentiment from our global members.

B) We were respectful of his religious traditions and buried him in accordance with those traditions despite the fact that having a body would have been better to assuage the Tin Foil Hat brigade.


----------



## Trauty_MR

You know this is how it should have ended





Would have saved you some money as well


----------



## Dan

^ post of the decade... right there


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Randy said:


> The cynicism dripping from this thread is disappointing, to say the least.



Evidently there's disappointment from many sides.


----------



## Greatoliver

Plug said:


> So do parties, and cake. They make people feel good too....





> Not saying that this should happen with everything, but I think in *this circumstance*, it was justified.



Have you read 1984?

If yes, I was making a comparison to the constant battles being won etc. They provide something to keep the nation happy, even though their living conditions are terrible. People like one-off victories.

If not, it's a great book to read


----------



## vampiregenocide

While he was a bit of a knobhead and I am happy to see him gone, it doesn't really change things. The war on terror will go on as long as it is being fought the way it is. Bin Laden wasn't even that dangerous, there are people behind him pulling the strings. He was just a figurehead who will be replaced. 

Barack Obama only announced this because he knows it will get him a lot of support, which he needs. This whole war is completely idiotic and misdirected, however one less bad guy in the world isn't a bad thing. I just wish that the right thing was being done out there. It's not as clear cut as kill bad guys = win war.


----------



## Dan

Sir, i drink my Victory gin every day 

Yes indeed i have read 1984. I still don't think all in all it was justified. I also believe the right thing to do would have been to keep him alive and take him to trial. Which also rings alarm bells in my head. Im gonne stick with my bandmates rock comment


----------



## Mr Violence

I have written a reply about 700 times now and SS.org keeps timing out.

Basically, I don't like vengeance and I think it's a shitty emotion or motive. On the other hand, this has united the US at least for a short while, and I think it's really worth the trouble.

Yeah, we spent a fuckload of money. Yeah, we shook the beehive. Yeah, it really probably isn't going to make a huge difference.

But the fact remains, people do feed into vengeance. People do feel good about it and it's nice to see that unity amongst us, regardless of our primitive, vengeful nature.

Deep down, I still think vengeance is an ugly thing. But when you step back, unfortunately, most people will rally around it. It's not like Osama was a nice dude. During 9/11, I would've gladly been the guy to pull that trigger. But in self-defense and for the safety of America. Not for vengeance.


TL;DR
I'm really torn about it rejoicing the death of another when that's what they did to us, but happy that it brought the US together at least for a brief moment.


----------



## krypter

Why are some American's happy? Because Osama Bin laden was the leader, and composer of a very large terror attack perpetrated on US citizens without cause or warning on Sept. 11, 2001. He also was the perpetrator of attacks on US soil at the WTC site in 1993. And, has attempted many more attacks in the years after 9/11/01. 

We killed him. 

There. 

Thats it. Thats why Americans are happy. And really? Someone is going to complain that there are people celebrating his death in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania? That seems ODD to you? Seriously? Fuuuuuck how cynical can you be?

Further more, i have yet to see any evidence that any one of those people don't lament the length of time it took, or the enormous cost its taken. Also, i don't really see anyone thinking that this will change too much in the Afghanistan War, and it certainly won't change the fact that a lot of people hate America. There will be another leader, and another and another. We know that. But should that be an excuse to just NOT kill the men who attacked us? According to the largely cynical foreign response on here it seems like the reaction of "so what?" and "well it won't change anything" is almost akin to saying that we shouldn't have bothered in the first place. 

Being an adult when 9/11 happened (i was 21), and living close to Washington DC at the time i can remember how surreal it was. It was awful. Painful, and yes, terrifying. Knowing that in the past 10 years we have either captured or killed almost all the men responsible for planning these attacks is a nice feeling to have, culminating with Osama Bin Laden. The people of NY and DC and PA have every single fucking right in the world to come outside and waive our flag, to yell American FUCK YEA! as loud as they want to. They have every right to take some small comfort in this event. And who are you to tell them they shouldn't? How cynical and self centered do YOU have to be to want to deny those people some type of happyness from knowing that the leader of a world terror organization has been killed after he had brainwashed so many into attempting so much to terrorize us as a country? That's sad. Very very sad.


I'm a liberal, a democrat. I voted for Obama and i will vote for him again in 2012. Would have voted for him before this happened, and of course this doesn't change a thing. I rallied and protested _against_ the war in Iraq many many times. I feel sad for the way we Americans usually go about tossing our weight around the world. I know the US has much maturity to gain, a long way to go before we don't have stains on ourselves from decades of political fuckwads only out for themselves. 
Both sides of our typically vile and caustic political system tend to have wildly varying takes on most anything. And usually only 10% of either side has any basis in fact. We've got problems, as a nation, and we need to fix them.
I get it.

But getting mad at an event that causes some glimmer of pride on BOTH sides of the divide politically seems sad. The reality is clear for most everyone. This wont stop the terrorists. In fact, it may send them into a frenzy in the coming months. This doesn't bring anyone back from 9/11 or the 10 year war that has ensued. This won't change peoples minds about our country, or change the divide of reason that seperates so many Americans. 
What it does do it just plant a soft, yet enduring reminder that our soldiers and intel community who said they were resolute in finding those responsible and killing them WERE being serious. Even if it took 10 years. For once in our countries storied and varied history we set out to do something, we promised the families affected by 9/11 that we would kill the fucker who killed their loved ones. And we did. 
Hopefully everyone can kind of realize why some people would be all "America Fuck Yea"

At least give em a few days before you start shitting on their pride parade.


----------



## Customisbetter

^Also Americans love Death, violence, and guns. All three were used exclusively in this event.


----------



## Dvaienat

Mr Violence said:


> I have written a reply about 700 times now and SS.org keeps timing out.
> 
> Basically, I don't like vengeance and I think it's a shitty emotion or motive. On the other hand, this has united the US at least for a short while, and I think it's really worth the trouble.
> 
> Yeah, we spent a fuckload of money. Yeah, we shook the beehive. Yeah, it really probably isn't going to make a huge difference.
> 
> But the fact remains, people do feed into vengeance. People do feel good about it and it's nice to see that unity amongst us, regardless of our primitive, vengeful nature.
> 
> Deep down, I still think vengeance is an ugly thing. But when you step back, unfortunately, most people will rally around it. It's not like Osama was a nice dude. During 9/11, I would've gladly been the guy to pull that trigger. But in self-defense and for the safety of America. Not for vengeance.
> 
> 
> TL;DR
> I'm really torn about it rejoicing the death of another when that's what they did to us, but happy that it brought the US together at least for a brief moment.


 
I'm a big supporter of vengeance, and I don't think we should spare a minute of thought or compassion for a vile man who has organised terrorist attacks which killed hundreds of people. 

Having said that, I don't think they have really accomplished anything. They will just get another leader.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Mr Violence said:


> Basically, I don't like vengeance and I think it's a shitty emotion or motive.


 
Agreed... While most ppl feel justified in their pursuit of vengeance and although it usually causes temporary relief from whatever you'd previously felt, it really changes nothing. You've only dropped yourself to the level of the person(s) you despise... Moreover, you run the risk of perpetuating the problem.

Turning the other cheek doesn't necessarily make you a door mat. One might simply have bigger fish to fry...


----------



## SD83

@krypter: I can totally understand why people are happy he's gone, I can kind of understand why one would want to celebrate his death... no problem with yelling "Fuck yes, we killed him!". But going out on the streets and wave flags, have a party (EDIT: I have not seen that happen. I have only heard on the news that in the USA "people are on the streets, celebrating his death")... to be honest, I consider that kind of, I don't know if it's the right word, anachronistic? Something that would fit the Roman Empire. That said, I also consider national pride anachronistic to some extend (at least if it comes to a level of saying "we are better than you")... so maybe I'm just weird


----------



## Konfyouzd

In all fairness, the media has been hyping this up for 10 years. 

Also consider the absurdity of the Birther claims, how much the media hyped it and the amount of support THAT was able to gain. After comparing the two are you still surprised?


----------



## Prydogga

@SD83 I totally agree with you.


----------



## Dvaienat

SD83 said:


> @krypter: I can totally understand why people are happy he's gone, I can kind of understand why one would want to celebrate his death... no problem with yelling "Fuck yes, we killed him!". But going out on the streets and wave flags, have a party (EDIT: I have not seen that happen. I have only heard on the news that in the USA "people are on the streets, celebrating his death")... to be honest, I consider that kind of, I don't know if it's the right word, anachronistic? Something that would fit the Roman Empire. That said, I also consider national pride anachronistic to some extend (at least if it comes to a level of saying "we are better than you")... so maybe I'm just weird


 
Perhaps the Americans having the party had patriotism in mind, but I don't think that is the primary motivation for most being relieved at his death. Most people are probably just glad we are rid of a vile terrorist leader.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Scar Symmetry said:


> Sorry Max, but if what you're implying is that anyone that doesn't believe the official story regarding this belongs to this group then to be quite honest, I am disappointed. I agree with very little that has been said in this thread, but that doesn't make me a sensationalist.
> 
> Like groph said, there are a wealth of different opinions on this issue and the issues related to it. Poking fun in any which direction is essentially useless, as no one argument holds any more water than the opposing argument. It's all a peepshow that we are far seperated from and when it boils down to it, we are all essentially clueless.



I'm dissapointed in all the words being put in people's mouths. 

If that is the only post of mine in this thread that you bothered to read than you're frankly not worth my time as you already have a deep seeded, yet ill informed idea of my opinions. Sorry.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Wow... For as happy as America seems to be this thread certainly is NOT a happy one.

Ladies and gentlemen... Mr. Conway Twitty... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og1QRtcWdEY

EDIT:  I can't embed them anymore for some reason... Help?


----------



## Mr Violence

SD83 said:


> @krypter: I can totally understand why people are happy he's gone, I can kind of understand why one would want to celebrate his death... no problem with yelling "Fuck yes, we killed him!". But going out on the streets and wave flags, have a party (EDIT: I have not seen that happen. I have only heard on the news that in the USA "people are on the streets, celebrating his death")... to be honest, I consider that kind of, I don't know if it's the right word, anachronistic? Something that would fit the Roman Empire. That said, I also consider national pride anachronistic to some extend (at least if it comes to a level of saying "we are better than you")... so maybe I'm just weird



Considering how appalled we all were when they did the same for 9/11, it seems a bit hypocritical. Dancing in the streets really is exactly what they did to us that made us so disgusted. I think this is why I don't feel 100% alright in cheering for this event.

BT just tweeted this, "Let's not gloat or celebrate death, let's be grateful that the world actually is a bit safer today..."



Granted, they might not be celebrating death, but are you really going to kid yourself with that notion? I know it's an assumption, but I think it's pretty accurate.


----------



## Randy

It just dawned on me...

Obama is the 13th Warrior.


----------



## Blind Theory

MaxOfMetal said:


> *The first member of our illustrious SSO Tin Foil Hat Club to turn this into a "9/11 was an inside job" thread gets perma'd. No joke. *



I sincerely hope this isn't directed towards me to deter others. Because I didn't bring up any thing like that. I simply said that an exchange student told me that. Nothing more.


----------



## sell2792

Nothing like a $400,000,000,000 war and 1,400+ dead American soliders in Afghanistan alone to justify the killing of this man. Fucking pointless violent circle.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Insackclothandashes said:


> I sincerely hope this isn't directed towards me to deter others. Because I didn't bring up any thing like that. I simply said that an exchange student told me that. Nothing more.



You both spoke of a tin foil hat brigade. Anyone that uses that phrase loses credibility in my eyes.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Insackclothandashes said:


> I sincerely hope this isn't directed towards me to deter others. Because I didn't bring up any thing like that. I simply said that an exchange student told me that. Nothing more.



That was not directed at you. I was just nipping it in the butt. It seems that the mere mention of 9/11 tends to start some pretty heavy debates here, and I feel it's unrelated to this thread. So I made that warning in the interest of keeping this thread relatively on topic.


----------



## Randy

sell2792 said:


> Nothing like a $400,000,000,000 war and 1,400+ dead American soliders in Afghanistan alone to justify the killing of this man. Fucking pointless violent circle.



The fact that Bin Laden being dead =/= the wars are over effectively negates the concept that he was the "justification" for all the things you described. I'm a pacifist, I was not (and am not) in favor of these wars or the money spent waging them but even I'll admit it reaches a lot further than that.

How quick people are to jump on this like we were better off leaving the guy alone is astonishing and unfortunately doesn't speak any better of our sense of perspective juxtaposed the those you're wagging your fingers at for celebrating.


----------



## Mordacain

Anthony said:


> So does the tin foil post mean we're not supposed to talk about the fact that we haven't seen the body and most likely wont because it's in the ocean now?



I think the Tin Foil hat warning was to avoid 9/11 conspiracy theories. Basically we're keeping the thread to the extent of: "OBL has finally been brought to justice. WOOT!"


----------



## Randy

Anthony said:


> So does the tin foil post mean we're not supposed to talk about the fact that we haven't seen the body and most likely wont because it's in the ocean now?



You didn't see the bulletridden face?


----------



## Xaios

And I thought I was cynical. 

My take on it is that, quite simply, a powerful man with a vendetta against the western world and the means to commit mass murder has been killed. While there may be retaliation, and someone new may rise to the head of Al Queda, no one can truly replace Osama Bin Laden, which means the head of the movement, and the one with the vision, has been cut off. In the long run, I think this makes the world a safer place.

But, as usual, apparently Osama Bin Laden isn't actually dead until Donald Trump sees the death certificate.


----------



## Dan

Randy said:


> You didn't see the bulletridden face?



Not that im saying that wasn't him, but thats little proof in my opinion. That could honestly have been anyone or anything dressed up to look like him. It just seems odd that they threw him in the ocean and didnt bring his body back 

Not putting on the tinfoil hat guys 



Xaios said:


> My take on it is that, quite simply, a powerful man with a vendetta against the western world and the means to commit mass murder has been killed. While there may be retaliation, and someone new may rise to the head of Al Queda, no one can truly replace Osama Bin Laden, which means the head of the movement, and the one with the vision, has been cut off. In the long run, I think this makes the world a safer place.



HAVE YOU NOT BEEN WATCHING V THE VISITORS MAN?!

Obviously an FBI agent will take the helm of Al Quaeda because only they know that Obama and the western world are infact lizard people hellbent on world domination...


....ok maybe a little tinfoil


----------



## sell2792

The photo is fake according to MSNBC. The Pentagon has pictures of him but are debating if and when to release them.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Xaios said:


> But, as usual, apparently Osama Bin Laden isn't actually dead until Donald Trump sees the death certificate.


 
WINNING!







EDIT: I think I may be done w/ this thread...


----------



## Greatoliver

The reason for putting his body in the sea was to follow Islamic tradition, which is that the body is to be buried in the sea quickly after death.

This may have been to minimise the upset caused by his death to his acquaintances.


----------



## Randy

Was it? Well shit. 

I'm not even getting into my Bin Laden theory, anyway. I'll admit it's a little "tin foil" sounding, so I'll abstain.


----------



## Randy

Greatoliver said:


> The reason for putting his body in the sea was to follow Islamic tradition, which is that the body is to be buried in the sea quickly after death.
> 
> This may have been to minimise the upset caused by his death to his acquaintances.



Thank you.


----------



## Dan

Greatoliver said:


> The reason for putting his body in the sea was to follow Islamic tradition, which is that the body is to be buried in the sea quickly after death.
> 
> This may have been to minimise the upset caused by his death to his acquaintances.



I did not know this! Would actually explain a lot as he does have a lot of family with pull in the middle east.


----------



## Explorer

Interesting news.

Obviously, this won't immediately change anything. Al Qaeda has other leaders. However, they've lost their biggest figurehead.

It makes me both laugh and shake my head sadly to hear people repeat the lie, that Iraq had anything to do with Al Qaeda. The Bush administration had to finally give up that lie, but there are some who just won't let it go.

Personally, I wish we had finished the job in Afghanistan, rather than getting distracted and allowing Al Qaeda to get entrenched elsewhere. That Bush took his eye off the prize and helped out Al Qaeda by giving them breathing room hurt the country in a huge way.

I like that people feel that someone controlled the timing. There are some huge ideas which hide behind that: that President Obama held off killing Bin Laden for some political advantage... but that Bush did too. 

Even more, some are suggesting that our armed forces, specialists and servicemen of all sorts, are part of some huge one-party political conspiracy. The idea that preserving Bin Laden's life for the opportune moment, regardless of how many lives he continued to threaten, insults those who serve. Is that really what they meant to say?

Lastly, for those who claim to have no idea of who Osama Bin Laden is/was: He is/was the leader and military commander of an organization which has attacked and continues to attack various nations because they do not fall in line with his political/religious ideology. The war in Afghanistan was triggered by one such attack by his organization, named Al Qaeda. To comment about the conflict with Al Qaeda while disregarding all their attacks in the US, Europe, Africa and Asia is to betray a huge ignorance, or to show oneself to be willingly ignorant in order to make an ill-formed point.


----------



## sell2792

Randy said:


> The fact that Bin Laden being dead =/= the wars are over effectively negates the concept that he was the "justification" for all the things you described. I'm a pacifist, I was not (and am not) in favor of these wars or the money spent waging them but even I'll admit it reaches a lot further than that.
> 
> How quick people are to jump on this like we were better off leaving the guy alone is astonishing and unfortunately doesn't speak any better of our sense of perspective juxtaposed the those you're wagging your fingers at for celebrating.


 
Because that's exactly what I said. I just stated that the cost for finally killing him is outrageous, especially since we had the oppourtunity to do it before.


----------



## steve1

Greatoliver said:


> The reason for putting his body in the sea was to follow Islamic tradition, which is that the body is to be buried in the sea quickly after death.
> 
> This may have been to minimise the upset caused by his death to his acquaintances.



From what I've read the body was buried at sea to prevent the grave becoming a shrine. Muslim tradition is to be buried within 24 hours, apparently burial at sea is rare in Islam, but permitted in certain circumstances.


----------



## Dan

steve1 said:


> From what I've read the body was buried at sea to prevent the grave becoming a shrine. Muslim tradition is to be buried within 24 hours, apparently burial at sea is rare in Islam, but permitted in certain circumstances.




Wouldnt they just have Burned to body if they had brought it to US shores? . I thought Cremation was your standard procedure over there?


----------



## Randy

sell2792 said:


> Because that's exactly what I said. I just stated that the cost for finally killing him is outrageous, especially since we had the oppourtunity to do it before.



And I disagree. It's a "war" against Al Qaeda and the Taliban; neither of which was he the functional leader of. He was a figurehead that helped to coordinate some high profile attacks a decade ago and has a bunch of fanbois mailing away to him for their Al Qaeda decoder ring to glorify him. That money and those lives you mentioned being lost were not done "to get him"... they were spent on the battle. I don't think anybody was under the impression killing Osama Bin Laden meant all of their followers were going to go limp, like we blew up the Trade Federation's Droid Control Ship.

Yes, I went there.


----------



## steve1

Plug said:


> Wouldnt they just have Burned to body if they had brought it to US shores? . I thought Cremation was your standard procedure over there?




not sure if this question is to me, or just general, but i'm in the UK so don't know


----------



## Dan

ohh no i didnt mean you it was a generic question to anyone American


----------



## Greatoliver

Well yeah, but it was also partially so that there wasn't a grave that could act as a rallying point for sympathisers.

Definately a good move, either way.

EDIT: Got ninja'd a lot.

It does seem that burial at sea is rare, that's true. It is acceptable however, which was important. It could certainly be justified, e.g. they didn't know where to put a grave etc., so it will still come under the Islamic tradition.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Cremation = Standard American procedure? I thought that was just an option...


----------



## Randy

Standard American Procedure:


----------



## highlordmugfug

Konfyouzd said:


> Cremation = Standard American procedure? I thought that was just an option...


Yeah it's not standard, @Plug or whoever asked it, it's just an option. Burial is much more common in my experience (like 10 funerals, 1 of which was cremation).


----------



## vampiregenocide

krypter said:


> But getting mad at an event that causes some glimmer of pride on BOTH sides of the divide politically seems sad. The reality is clear for most everyone. This wont stop the terrorists. In fact, it may send them into a frenzy in the coming months. This doesn't bring anyone back from 9/11 or the 10 year war that has ensued. This won't change peoples minds about our country, or change the divide of reason that seperates so many Americans.
> What it does do it just plant a soft, yet enduring reminder that our soldiers and intel community who said they were resolute in finding those responsible and killing them WERE being serious. Even if it took 10 years. For once in our countries storied and varied history we set out to do something, we promised the families affected by 9/11 that we would kill the fucker who killed their loved ones. And we did.
> Hopefully everyone can kind of realize why some people would be all "America Fuck Yea"
> 
> At least give em a few days before you start shitting on their pride parade.



While I agree this is a victory in some amount and something to be proud of, I completely understand those people who hold the opposite point of view. Instead of running around in the desert trying to find those responsible for this in a war of vengeance, this war should've been dealt with differently. As a result, the actions of both America and the U.S in trying to find these terrorists has spawned more. Al Qaeda has used our path of revenge as a testament to the violent ways of the Western world, converting more people to their cause. 

So yeah this is a victory, but as what cost? Could this war have been won earlier had we approached it differently? Reflection is something that is often glossed over in the act of victory, and in doing so we often commit ourselves to making the same mistakes again.


----------



## sell2792

Randy said:


> I don't think anybody was under the impression killing Osama Bin Laden meant all of their followers were going to go limp, like we blew up the Trade Federation's Droid Control Ship.
> 
> Yes, I went there.


 
I know this, but tell that to some of the naive people celebrating his death like it's going to be the end of our involvement in Afghanistan. The war is far from over, but he was a piece to the puzzle.



> So yeah this is a victory, but as what cost? Could this war have been won earlier had we approached it differently? Reflection is something that is often glossed over in the act of victory, and in doing so we often commit ourselves to making the same mistakes again.


 
My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Dan

Ahhh right. I knew it was an option i just understood it to be the norm for you guys to do that like we do here.


----------



## GuitaristOfHell

Goes to show, DON'T FUCK WITH AMERICA!. You fuck with us and we'll bust a cap in your ass... or head  GO AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! USA USA USA....


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## highlordmugfug

For all you folks that are agitated that people are happy that a figurehead of a huge terrorist organization has been killed (and yet everyone who's posting on here has been very intelligent and knows that it's not over, that we've got two huge wars, lots of money spent, etc: you aren't fucking saying anything we don't already know, stop painting us all with the wide brush of the drunks they had chanting USA and burning couches and shit on television goddammit) look how SOME people are handling it:

Tea Party Nation: Obama Only Killed Bin Laden To Help His Reelection | Right Wing Watch


----------



## Konfyouzd

I repeat: 

Know how you kill the validity of any idea in 10 seconds or less? Associate it with the Tea Party.


----------



## SD83

highlordmugfug said:


> Tea Party Nation: Obama Only Killed Bin Laden To Help His Reelection | Right Wing Watch


WTF? People like this all over the world are the reason we don't live in a much better world (at least by my standards).


----------



## Marko

Greatoliver said:


> The reason for putting his body in the sea was to follow Islamic tradition, which is that the body is to be buried in the sea quickly after death.
> 
> This may have been to minimise the upset caused by his death to his acquaintances.



I bet Trey Parker and Matt Stone are behind this


----------



## sell2792

"What should have happened, which would not happen under the Obama regime and to be fair, the Bush administration was too politically correct to do this either, but Osama&#8217;s body should have not been immediately buried. We should have told everyone that the body was wrapped in pig fat before burial.
Why?
It is not just the visceral insult. It is sending a message. Contrary to what the politically correct say, Osama does represent the mainstream of Islam. By defiling the body, we say that you are not getting your 72 virgins. This should be the policy we have with every Islamic terrorist we capture. If you die, we are going to deny you paradise. If we capture you, we are going to feed you nothing but pork until you talk." 

It's fucking pathetic how many people take this group seriously. It makes me embarassed to be an American.


----------



## Dan

I have to admit, i love threads like these because all the regulars come in and have their . It's nice to have some friendly terrorist based banter


----------



## Dan

sell2792 said:


> It's fucking pathetic how many people take this group seriously. It makes me embarassed to be an American.



Because it's called being the bigger man. As much as you may not like it Islam is still a culture and a religion. How would you like it if someone nailed you upside-down to a cross and gave you a crown of thorns?


----------



## sell2792

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlkuyPDFhyo

Slayer is always relavent.




Plug said:


> Because it's called being the bigger man. As much as you may not like it Islam is still a culture and a religion. How would you like it if someone nailed you upside-down to a cross and gave you a crown of thorns?


 
I was refering to the Tea Part bro. I don't have any issues with Islam, and I'm an atheist so I'm indifferent to upside down crosses and Satanism lol.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Yeah I find it kind of ironic that they'd want to do that with Osama's corpse, trying to scare people who making scaring people a career.


----------



## Dan

Ohh well my bad  Didnt catch a glimpse of the previous link. I was going to lay some racial tolerance smackdown on yo ass haha


----------



## sell2792

I can't even begin to image the shitstorm that would occur if Obama so much as even mentioned pigs in reference to Osama. Fucking close minded red necks disgust me. If Palin runs, and somehow wins, I will move outta the US.


----------



## Overtone

I happened to watch Apocalypse Now (redux) on Saturday and it's interesting to think about this in the context of the movie. Anyway, I think it's good news for the families of Al Qaeda and OBL's victims, and good for the morale of the armed forces. It's a shame it doesn't seem like it'll have much more impact beyond that... it's not likely to affect the war on terror in a big way, and in terms of domestic affairs the left and the right seem to be doing their usual thing and trying to find ways to tear one another to pieces. This is so much more than something to see debated on little green footballs, huffpo, et. al... it has the potential to provide closure and unite people, but it seems like nothing's changed so far. In 2008 you could really see a divide start to form in the American public. It's grown wider and wider. The idea that something like this will probably only serve to make that divide even greater is sad.


----------



## Konfyouzd

sell2792 said:


> Slayer is always relavent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was refering to the Tea Part bro




Hush lest you be labeled a fascist illegal immigrant!


----------



## Blind Theory

Scar Symmetry said:


> You both spoke of a tin foil hat brigade. Anyone that uses that phrase loses credibility in my eyes.



I spoke of them in a "I hope they don't pipe up" manner though. So I don't understand why I would lose credibility. Do they not exist? DO they not stir up trouble with their ideas? Are their ideas not extremely out there? I just don't get it.


----------



## Jogeta

Just wish that it would bring back all the victims of the attacks he was involved with. Definitely sucks that life isn't more like some RPG games!

Kudos to everyone involved in hunting scumbags like this.

Ayman al-Zawahari next please.


----------



## synrgy

Okay, I lied. I actually have one more contribution:

40 Incredibly Stupid Facebook Reactions To Osama Bin Laden's Death: Pics, Videos, Links, News

icard:


----------



## Mordacain

synrgy said:


> Okay, I lied. I actually have one more contribution:
> 
> 40 Incredibly Stupid Facebook Reactions To Osama Bin Laden's Death: Pics, Videos, Links, News
> 
> icard:



Wow...I almost want to look at all of my blocked family member's status' to see if I need to bitchslap someone at the next family function.


----------



## Randy

Hurr durr I haz an oponion


----------



## highlordmugfug

Mordacain said:


> Wow...I almost want to look at all of my blocked family member's status' to see if I need to bitchslap someone at the next family function.


The boyfriend of one of my friends was saying stuff like:

i seen that this morning it about time they do something right

i know i have a point. they are not going to do anything.

they will be to scard to retaliate

with Bin Laden dead they will probably just eventually fade away because they believed he was bigger that the US and we proved that he was just an ordinary man when out troops killed him. they have no real leader now because all their beliefs were his.

it ain't gonna matter cuz we are gonna whip their asses like we've been doing. they will get the message and go into hiding if they are smart.










...

EDIT: Those are all copypasted.


----------



## Blake1970

I think they should have brought him back to the Unitied States and stoned him to death!


----------



## highlordmugfug

Blake1970 said:


> I think they should have brought him back to the Unitied States and stoned him to death!


Ironic timing 
(see my above post)


----------



## Mordacain

highlordmugfug said:


> The boyfriend of one of my friends was saying stuff like:
> 
> i seen that this morning it about time they do something right
> 
> i know i have a point. they are not going to do anything.
> 
> they will be to scard to retaliate
> 
> with Bin Laden dead they will probably just eventually fade away because they believed he was bigger that the US and we proved that he was just an ordinary man when out troops killed him. they have no real leader now because all their beliefs were his.
> 
> it ain't gonna matter cuz we are gonna whip their asses like we've been doing. they will get the message and go into hiding if they are smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> EDIT: Those are all copypasted.



 Wow... luckily, the chief offenders in my family have apparently had a stroke of good sense and decided to not display their ignorance for once.


----------



## 1000 Eyes

has there been any evidence presented?
Or are we to accept the word of Professional Liars?
Just wondering...

Gadaffis son and grandchildren killed..billed as "unconfirmed reports" or propaganda from the media...other side of the coin, Osama dead (unconfirmed reports?)..media goes apeshit


----------



## Blind Theory

synrgy said:


> Okay, I lied. I actually have one more contribution:
> 
> 40 Incredibly Stupid Facebook Reactions To Osama Bin Laden's Death: Pics, Videos, Links, News
> 
> icard:



Reading all of those gave me two emotions:
1) I laughed at a few
2) The majority made me sick

I am not a fan of Obama because I am from a conservative family but I wouldn't wish our President dead, that is just stupid to think. And second, it makes me sad to think that a lot of people don't know who Osama Bin Laden is. If you are under a certain age, sure, but a lot of people are my age and older, it is pathetic.


----------



## Sepultorture

glad he's dead, doesn't change anything though sadly


----------



## vampiregenocide

Jesus fucking christ they're scraping the bottom of the gene pool.


----------



## DVRP

I just read through all the stuff I missed over night. All I can say is its very refreshing to see people feeling the same way I do. 

Once again I understand why people are celebrating, I truly do. Its just very upsetting to see how they're doing it. Not necessarily in this thread but the people who took to the streets. In my eyes all they've done is kill another person. Just another casualty of war. And thats no cause for the celebration that has been going on. But I suppose that is the American way it seems. I wish more people could see things from a different perspective instead of being blinded by "patriotism". Im all for loving your country, but sometimes its like Patriotism is used an excuse to do some bad things, or in this case celebrate the death of a single man.

Would there be this much of a celebration if say all of America got free healthcare? I really don't think so. What do you guys think?


----------



## Kurkkuviipale

Mindcrime1204 said:


> Ummm everyone knows that the war isn't over. Why do outsiders keep bringing it up? lol



Outsiders? I thought UK (referring to Plug's location) was in a big threat just because of terrorists and shit. And it really doesn't look like you 'insiders' did figure that the war isn't over.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DVRP said:


> But I suppose that is the American way it seems.
> 
> Would there be this much of a celebration if say all of America got free healthcare?





Kurkkuviipale said:


> And it really doesn't look like you 'insiders' did figure that the war isn't over.


----------



## JeffFromMtl

They killed the bad man.
Some of you guys need to lighten up.


----------



## DVRP

Sorry max, but it was just an observation. I tried so say it as nice as I could.

Edit- I tried to present some question because I wanted actual responses.


----------



## liamh

Guys I just found out something fucking amazing.
you know the soldiers that killed Osama? 
They were seals. How fucking awesome is that? I didnt even know they cold hold guns with their flippers.
I can imagine it now; a seal wearing shades and a leather jacket, holding the biggest fucking shotgun you have ever seen in your life, knocking down the door, delivering a cracking one liner, and blowing the absolute shit out of Osama's face.


----------



## Dan

This debate is getting a little heated guys, lets take a break shall we and listen to the sounds of Big Mountain singing Peter Framptons hit "baby i love your way" on BBC's Top of the Pops II:



 - Now, proceed...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DVRP said:


> Sorry max, but it was just an observation. I tried so say it as nice as I could.



No need to appologize for sharing your opinion, it's your right.

Just like it's my right to think your opinion is pretty shit. Because it's just the way us stupid, fat Americans are with our tyranical rulers, poor education and over patriotism.


----------



## Xaios

I found an interesting article: Jonathan Kay: Bin laden isn&#8217;t dead, he&#8217;s living with Elvis | Full Comment | National Post


----------



## JeffFromMtl

I could just picture Elvis, Tupac and Biggie teaching the new recruits, Osama included, how to lasso a bronco on Dead Celebrity Ranch somewhere down in Mexico.


----------



## krypter

I fail to see how people cheering in the streets of New York City (most AT Ground Zero in fact) at the event of the Leader of the terror group responsible for the attacks IN THAT CITY has been killed. 


That strikes you guys as a "bad thing"? Really? I mean....._really_?


ok.


----------



## DVRP

MaxOfMetal said:


> No need to appologize for sharing your opinion, it's your right.
> 
> Just like it's my right to think your opinion is pretty shit. Because it's just the way us stupid, fat Americans are with our tyranical rulers, poor education and over patriotism.



Fair enough. But that wasn't what I was saying at all. I dont think all Americans are the same; I know theres alot of good people. But what I was trying to say was the media thats coming out of the states works against the good people in the country. Same with some of the go USA and America FUCK YEAHS in this thread. It paints a picture for people that are outsiders. What are people supposed to think of America? Its just like people thinking everyone is a terrorist because they have a turban, which lets be honest. Most people who saw a man with a turban on an airplane would be on edge and make assumptions. Just like the terrorists paint a picture for the rest of the middle east. 

Notice I'm saying most people. Please dont forget that. Im not attacking anyone with this. I'm merely making some observations as an outsider.


----------



## Jakke

I'm, short for a better word, happy for you yanks. You've caught your arch enemy, I maybe would have prefered him captured alive, but whatever floats your boat (and maybe it was not possible in any other way).

We have swedish soldiers that have dies in Afghanistan, so in a way he is responsible for the loss of swedish lives too. My first reaction however was: Finally, now they can concentrate on something else! Maybe try to catch the real leaders of Al Quadia, since bin Laden didn't really have an operative role after 9/11.

But I'm glad for your sake, and celebrate away, If I would have been in the states I'd buy nearest SS.org member a drink. 

Let's just hope Al Quaida or an affiliated organisation retaliates... But, again, it's your day


----------



## Jakke

*Edit* double post


----------



## vampiregenocide

He's the enemy of all us. We've all lost lives in the fight to get him. I am happy he is dead, I just don't think we should lose sight of the bigger picture, which people tend to do.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

krypter said:


> I fail to see how people cheering in the streets of New York City (most AT Ground Zero in fact) at the event of the Leader of the terror group responsible for the attacks IN THAT CITY has been killed.
> 
> 
> That strikes you guys as a "bad thing"? Really? I mean....._really_?
> 
> 
> ok.



It strikes me as stupid, not specifically bad. Exactly why are they celebrating? What good is his death? He's dead. So what, then? Problem solved? Nothing is solved.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm dissapointed in all the words being put in people's mouths.
> 
> If that is the only post of mine in this thread that you bothered to read than you're frankly not worth my time as you already have a deep seeded, yet ill informed idea of my opinions. Sorry.



Sure, but I've always seen you as a mature, stand up guy which is why I was disappointed to see that you had encouraged the dismissal of a particular school of thought.

As for the other posts, yeah I read 'em so you can put your assumptions back to bed. I just thought I'd point out that I don't appreciate bias from a mod as it enourages imbalanced discussion, not to mention the fact the post I've quoted in this post is even more disappointing as your 'defence' is overkill IMO. Funny how your opinion of someone can change so quickly, all it takes is a few words and their true colours are revealed.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

krypter said:


> I fail to see how people cheering in the streets of New York City (most AT Ground Zero in fact) at the event of the Leader of the terror group responsible for the attacks IN THAT CITY has been killed.
> 
> 
> That strikes you guys as a "bad thing"? Really? I mean....._really_?
> 
> 
> ok.


1-Fucking sentence structure, how does it work?

2-It's not a bad thing, just a stupid, presumptuous thing. Technically they should have already celebrated, the guys that had done the hijacking already died. Al Qaeda still exists, this probably didn't do much besides piss them off.


----------



## krypter

dragonblade629 said:


> 1-Fucking sentence structure, how does it work?
> 
> 2-It's not a bad thing, just a stupid, presumptuous thing. Technically they should have already celebrated, the guys that had done the hijacking already died. Al Qaeda still exists, this probably didn't do much besides piss them off.




Wow. How constructive of you.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

More black ops, more political assasinations(bad guys only), more behind the scenes wrangling, less boots on the ground, more drones, and less of this "the citizens have the right to know everything" crap thats been tying up our true capabilities and the willingness of our allies to offer more assistance for far to long. Specifically for Bin Laden, I can't stop thinking of that Wizard Of Oz song, THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD! I just hope that Gaddafi goes next, and very soon.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

krypter said:


> Wow. How constructive of you.



I was responding to what he said, so I thought his failed grammar, in a forum I thought was for *intelligent* discussion, needed to be pointed out.


----------



## vampiregenocide

There are ways of saying things. The way you chose was rude.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone

vampiregenocide said:


> There are ways of saying things. The way you chose was rude.



So somethings wrong when I do it, when I know that others on this forum have worded it the same way and now one gets angry at them.

Whatever, this is definitely not on topic.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

De-sand your vaginas gentlemen, there's a lot of unnecessary emotion in this thread. Is it really so hard to seperate yourself from your opinion and your ego and look at it objectively?


----------



## steve1

<------if you use this little guy at the end of a sentence you can be as rude as you like to anyone and get away with it


----------



## sell2792

Starbucks, fuck yeah!; Disney world, fuck yeah!; porno, fuck yeah! 

Valium, fuck yeah!; Reeboks, fuck yeah!; fake tits, fuck yeah! 

Sushi, fuck yeah!; taco bell, fuck yeah!; rodeo's, fuck yeah! 

Bed bath and beyond, fuck yeah?;


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Boy, America really just can't do anything right to some people.


----------



## DesertBurst

DVRP said:


> I just read through all the stuff I missed over night. All I can say is its very refreshing to see people feeling the same way I do.
> 
> Once again I understand why people are celebrating, I truly do. Its just very upsetting to see how they're doing it. Not necessarily in this thread but the people who took to the streets. In my eyes all they've done is kill another person. Just another casualty of war. And thats no cause for the celebration that has been going on. But I suppose that is the American way it seems. I wish more people could see things from a different perspective instead of being blinded by "patriotism". Im all for loving your country, but sometimes its like Patriotism is used an excuse to do some bad things, or in this case celebrate the death of a single man.
> 
> Would there be this much of a celebration if say all of America got free healthcare? I really don't think so. What do you guys think?



Bin Laden is dead 
just another casualty of war ;-;
poor guy ;-;

satisfied?

I celebrated, and I'm not even American...There must be something wrong with me.


edit: There is no such thing as free healthcare.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Boy, America really just can't do anything right to some people.



[loljk] When it does manage to do something right let us know  [/loljk]


----------



## DVRP

I wanna further elaborate on my opinion really quick. I dont celebrate the death of tyrants like Hitler so why would I celebrate the death of someone who by sheer numbers; is nothing in comparison. Hitler didn't effect my life in anyway so I really have no right to celebrate the death of him. Same goes for Osama. 

I really dont think alot of people have the right to celebrate his death. Were you in New York when 9/11 happened? Are you a soldier of the United Sates Army? Just because you saw one of the greatest tragedy's in the world on tv doesnt give you the right. Just because your an American doesn't give you the right.

Since when is death so openly celebrated. Its wrong. Killing ANYONE or ANYTHING is wrong. Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up. Your making the choice to let it effect you.


----------



## daemon barbeque

I fail to see why killing him is so much celebrated.
My question would be why if you where able to headshot him, not capture him? Why not give him a trial like to Saddam or whoever. Why not just ask the right questions in a right way and get more info. I am sure he knows very valuable stuff that ptotected him 10 yearsa from all the known and unknown intelligence and military forces. Why just get rid of the body before letting people see him? Tons of questions.


----------



## DesertBurst

DVRP said:


> I wanna further elaborate on my opinion really quick. I dont celebrate the death of tyrants like Hitler so why would I celebrate the death of someone who by sheer numbers; is nothing in comparison. Hitler didn't effect my life in anyway so I really have no right to celebrate the death of him. Same goes for Osama.
> 
> I really dont think alot of people have the right to celebrate his death. Were you in New York when 9/11 happened? Are you a soldier of the United Sates Army? Just because you saw one of the greatest tragedy's in the world on tv doesnt give you the right. Just because your an American doesn't give you the right.
> 
> Since when is death so openly celebrated. Its wrong. Killing ANYONE or ANYTHING is wrong. Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up. Your making the choice to let it effect you.



What kind of *rights* are we talking about here?


----------



## DesertBurst

daemon barbeque said:


> I fail to see why killing him is so much celebrated.
> My question would be why if you where able to headshot him, not capture him? Why not give him a trial like to Saddam or whoever. Why not just ask the right questions in a right way and get more info. I am sure he knows very valuable stuff that ptotected him 10 yearsa from all the known and unknown intelligence and military forces. Why just get rid of the body before letting people see him? Tons of questions.



'No land alternative' prompts bin Laden sea burial - CNN.com

Trail leading to bin Laden began with his trusted courier - CNN.com

any more questions?


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

DVRP said:


> Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up.


 
Nice to see we can keep things civil.


----------



## DVRP

DesertBurst said:


> What kind of *rights* are we talking about here?



I believe I was asking the people who are celebrating his death. Maybe "rights" isn't the right word to use, but Im pretty sure your smart enough to know what I mean by using that word.

Edit - to grand moff, Being civil doesnt seem to get the point across to alot of people. How do you celebrate death civilly ?


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

DVRP said:


> How do you celebrate death civilly ?


 
That should have no bearing on how you conduct yourself in a discussion.

EDIT: Post #666. Brutal.


----------



## daemon barbeque

DesertBurst said:


> 'No land alternative' prompts bin Laden sea burial - CNN.com
> 
> Trail leading to bin Laden began with his trusted courier - CNN.com
> 
> any more questions?



Both are not real answers because,
The officials (without names) say it was already planned to kill him, or just takeim him alive if he surrenders. That shows already that this was not made for jsutice, but for the Kill. We are "civilized" and should have gave him a proper trial.
Another point with the Burial is another problem. You kill someone with your own law, but burry him in an islamic way? Which Imam made his last pray, who wahsed it in an islamic way? Who asked his family and others if he was a good man? Sorry but that all sounds like a "tale" to me.

He was killed with a headshot. They where able to take him down, get his corpse, get his DNA, compare his DNA, wash him, shave his whole body etc. But no pictures?

It really needs more to it. I am happy to believe in in once I see "unedited" factual content. Not a wave of emotions full of patriotism.


----------



## DVRP

Im officially done in this thread now. Ive said my part and theres nothing more I can do than that. So I'll be actually leaving now. Peace people.


----------



## krypter

daemon barbeque said:


> Both are not real answers because,
> The officials (without names) say it was already planned to kill him, or just takeim him alive if he surrenders. That shows already that this was not made for jsutice, but for the Kill. We are "civilized" and should have gave him a proper trial.
> Another point with the Burial is another problem. You kill someone with your own law, but burry him in an islamic way? Which Imam made his last pray, who wahsed it in an islamic way? Who asked his family and others if he was a good man? Sorry but that all sounds like a "tale" to me.
> 
> He was killed with a headshot. They where able to take him down, get his corpse, get his DNA, compare his DNA, wash him, shave his whole body etc. But no pictures?
> 
> It really needs more to it. I am happy to believe in in once I see "unedited" factual content. Not a wave of emotions full of patriotism.



Because it was a firefight. Osama armed himself and shot back, so the soldier shot him in the head.

And to answer your second question, we got all that stuff because not only was Osama killed, so were his guards and a woman being used as a human shield. So, after everyone is dead its pretty easy to get other intel, dna, etc from the scene. Also, i don't think "taking pictures" at the scene is really what the operation was about. Although, i am certain pictures were taken of the body before disposal. 

I know it sounds cold, but those are the answers to your questions.


----------



## daemon barbeque

krypter said:


> Because it was a firefight. Osama armed himself and shot back, so the soldier shot him in the head.



What about the rest of my points?


----------



## krypter

see edit.


----------



## daemon barbeque

I see your points, bur not very convincing.

And this "kill everyone to get to your point" is pretty much evil. Not a way that "the world leading civilization" would take.


----------



## vampiregenocide

DVRP said:


> Since when is death so openly celebrated. Its wrong. Killing ANYONE or ANYTHING is wrong. Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up. Your making the choice to let it effect you.



I'm going to disagree with you here in the most polite way I can. 

First off, you have your opinion, don't tell people to shut up if you don't agree with them. I believe that life is a gift, and if you take that gift from others you shall be shown no remorse. I celebrate the deaths of people like Hitler, Bin Laden, Josef Fritzl etc because in my opinion they have no place in this world. They cause only suffering and are beyond redemption or rehabilitation. If someone can be saved and can turn their life around so be it, but in this man's case that isn't an option. The fact we gave him a decent burial is a lot better than Saddam got. Says something no?

Killing isn't wrong. It is part of nature and because we have distanced ourselves from it we have to take it into our own hands. Killing is only wrong when you look at the context of it. The innocent children and people brainwashed to join Al Qaeda's cause only to be killed in war is wrong. The troops slaughtering innocent civilians in a misuse of power is wrong. Killing someone who caused suffering on a large scale is not wrong, it is removing a negative being from this world. If people lacked the backbone to eliminate those who cause suffering and pain, there'd be a lot more bad guys in the world.

While I can sympathise with your point of view, your way of wording it has made me lose all respect for your opinion and so no, I will not shut the fuck up.


----------



## krypter

daemon barbeque said:


> I see your points, bur not very convincing.
> 
> And this "kill everyone to get to your point" is pretty much evil. Not a way that "the world leading civilization" would take.



What would have been the better way to handle it?


----------



## Daemoniac

vampiregenocide said:


> I'm going to disagree with you here in the most polite way I can.
> 
> First off, you have your opinion, don't tell people to shut up if you don't agree with them. I believe that life is a gift, and if you take that gift from others you shall be shown no remorse. I celebrate the deaths of people like Hitler, Bin Laden, Josef Fritzl etc because in my opinion they have no place in this world. They cause only suffering and are beyond redemption or rehabilitation. If someone can be saved and can turn their life around so be it, but in this man's case that isn't an option. The fact we gave him a decent burial is a lot better than Saddam got. Says something no?
> 
> Killing isn't wrong. It is part of nature and because we have distanced ourselves from it we have to take it into our own hands. Killing is only wrong when you look at the context of it. The innocent children and people brainwashed to join Al Qaeda's cause only to be killed in war is wrong. The troops slaughtering innocent civilians in a misuse of power is wrong. Killing someone who caused suffering on a large scale is not wrong, it is removing a negative being from this world. If people lacked the backbone to eliminate those who cause suffering and pain, there'd be a lot more bad guys in the world.
> 
> While I can sympathise with your point of view, your way of wording it has made me lose all respect for your opinion and so no, I will not shut the fuck up.





This is why I can't be "sad" about his death specifically because I _know_ it's for the better, but the response and reactions of the world media and a lot of people have me rather nauseated.


----------



## technomancer

Sorry folks, DVRP is taking some time off as telling people to shut the fuck up is over the line. Hopefully he can be a bit more civil when he gets back.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Friend: "What do you think was the last thing to go through Osama's mind?"
Me: "A .338 Lapua, I hope."


Lol. I got class.




Out the ass.


----------



## Cyanide_Anima

Sweet, one less douchebag in the world.

Like many, I wish there were other ways we could go about solving conflicts in the world other than with war. Maybe if we could communicate with our enemies at their level, from their prospective. Maybe if we learn to see the world through their eyes, with their values, ideals, beliefs, etc. we could draw analogies as to where we come from. Not sure if we've ever really put much effort into something that like. Treating our enemies as fellow human beings, with their own moral compasses tuned to opposite polarities in respect to ours, and maybe tried a more psychological/philosophical approach we could progress a little faster. You never really read about that approach in history so much if at all. Leaders always rally the citizens and portray enemies in a 100% negative light. Like they are 100% pure evil. Which Bin Laden is in western eyes, mine included. So we never really understand the whole picture. 

...but then again, just like Alfred in Batman says, some people just can't be reasoned (or rationalized) with so killing could be a justifiable action. I believe this to be the case with mr Osama Bin Douchebag. Fuck him and all like him. Religious extremism is fucking bullshit, and killing in the name of your god is deplorable. Terrorism is fucked up, we can't just ignore them like the trolls they are, our reactions fuel their actions. Internet trolls can't really harm you. Crazy fucked up religious extremists _will_ fucking kill you, your mom, your baby, your dog, and your fish because they believe it to be the _best_ thing they can possibly do in their (version of) god's eyes. They can't be reasoned with at all. The only thing that can really be done (at this point) is go in after them after a certain point of taking BS and stopping them from killing and spreading their hateful message any further (all while we spread ours, how it's always worked...). It sucks that we have to sacrifice some of our lives as well. But it really is the sacrifice of the few for the good of the many.

If the human thought process defaulted to actually caring if what one believes is true at say, 7 or 8 yo, I doubt we would have many of the problems we face in the world today. When indoctrination of our children ends and our intrinsic *need* for a some sort of tribalistic support system, IE. Church, politics, nationalism, social stratification, self-identification via all external value, becomes secondary we might have a shot at some kind of world peace. Until then peace will always be declared by the nation with the biggest guns. /end ramblings. haha.


----------



## vampiregenocide

I've always thought that the best plan of attack would be to rebuild and generally help these countries effected by Al Qaeda and terrorism. Give them schools, hospitals, decent homes, water, things Al Qaeda can't. That's the reason most of these people sign up, they need to support their families and it's their only option. If we'd given them what they needed originally instead of giving them weapons and leaving them to it, they might not have been left so bitter. The war on terror is best fought with compassion.


----------



## krypter

vampiregenocide said:


> I've always thought that the best plan of attack would be to rebuild and generally help these countries effected by Al Qaeda and terrorism. Give them schools, hospitals, decent homes, water, things Al Qaeda can't. That's the reason most of these people sign up, they need to support their families and it's their only option. If we'd given them what they needed originally instead of giving them weapons and leaving them to it, they might not have been left so bitter. The war on terror is best fought with compassion.




A bit off the mark there. We gave them _some_ weapons to fight the Soviet Invasion of their country. At that, the only real game changer we gave them was the Stinger Missile System to shoot down the Soviet choppers. 
Iraq on the other hand is a whole new ball game....


----------



## vampiregenocide

krypter said:


> A bit off the mark there. We gave them _some_ weapons to fight the Soviet Invasion of their country. At that, the only real game changer we gave them was the Stinger Missile System to shoot down the Soviet choppers.
> Iraq on the other hand is a whole new ball game....



Still gave them weapons and then left them to it after the Russian's left.  They were mostly Russian weapons like AKs and RPGs to make it look like they stole them instead of being supplied with them. But yeah obviously Iraq was different. However the same thing applies. Our mission should to to rebuild and convert the people instead of simply neutralising enemy forces.


----------



## ZEBOV

DVRP said:


> I wanna further elaborate on my opinion really quick. I dont celebrate the death of tyrants like Hitler so why would I celebrate the death of someone who by sheer numbers; is nothing in comparison. Hitler didn't effect my life in anyway so I really have no right to celebrate the death of him. Same goes for Osama.
> 
> I really dont think alot of people have the right to celebrate his death. Were you in New York when 9/11 happened? Are you a soldier of the United Sates Army? Just because you saw one of the greatest tragedy's in the world on tv doesnt give you the right. Just because your an American doesn't give you the right.
> 
> Since when is death so openly celebrated. Its wrong. Killing ANYONE or ANYTHING is wrong. Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up. Your making the choice to let it effect you.


I wish I was Technomancer.
Just as I celebrate Osama's death, I celebrate your ban.


----------



## technomancer

ZEBOV said:


> I wish I was Technomancer.
> Just as I celebrate Osama's death, I celebrate your ban.



Keep it chill there Zebov


----------



## Encephalon5

Fred Phelps has issued a statement:


----------



## -42-

DVRP said:


> Since when is death so openly celebrated. Its wrong. Killing ANYONE or ANYTHING is wrong. Unless Osama has in some way directly effected you shut the fuck up. Your making the choice to let it effect you.



Casualties of the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How incredibly callous, to think that simply because _I'm_ not dead, that Osama has not affected me. His actions did far more than kill people, they changed the policies of nations worldwide, they drove down the standard of living and they predicated wars. Like it or not, he has had an impact on almost _everyone's_ life, and his death is as much a symbolic victory as a strategic one.


----------



## krypter

vampiregenocide said:


> Still gave them weapons and then left them to it after the Russian's left.  They were mostly Russian weapons like AKs and RPGs to make it look like they stole them instead of being supplied with them. But yeah obviously Iraq was different. However the same thing applies. Our mission should to to rebuild and convert the people instead of simply neutralising enemy forces.




I dunno man. Seems like a stretch to blame that soley on US foreign policy of the 1980s. 

Mostly is was religious extremest thinking and power-hungry individuals like OBL and many others that used, brain-washed, and exploited the people of the area into dealing with a shitty life by giving them a common enemy to hate. Kind of a like how the republican/christian fringe manage to rile up insensitivity toward the entire Muslim religion. 

OSL picked us because we're the big dog on campus. Granted, we can sometimes make it EASY to poke at us, but we've done nothing that a hundred other countries before us haven't done. 
Now i'm not saying that makes it ok, but to say the idea of "well we kind of brought this on ourselves" is only a half truth. Its only half the reality. To fix any given situation one needs to have the whole reality. 

The trouble with all this is, traditionally, when one group has a problem with another, they pick a fight against that other group by killing or "warring" against its established military. The two sides duke it out until one side gives up and the army goes home. 
OBL picked the fight with the US by killing thousands of non-combatants without aim or warning. Now the "enemy" attacks without uniform, without loyalty, without any type of ruling power structure. They routinely use civilians as shields, and have given no thought to any honorable combat rules. 
It makes it really hard to win....its like waging a war on jealousy, in any case, its a "force" we cannot totally irradicate as it boils down to fighting an "idea" rather than a traditional military. 
That makes it really hard to feel sorry for the "enemy" too. Personal opinion.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Jakke said:


> I'm, short for a better word, happy for you yanks. You've caught your arch enemy, *I maybe would have prefered him captured alive, but whatever floats your boat (and maybe it was not possible in any other way).*


I don't know if anyone's covered this yet: but he went down firing at them is the report, and they were ready to take him alive if he surrendered according to reports I've seen.

US troops were ready to capture Osama alive: White House - The Times of India

He had weapons, I assume the others with him had weapons, and either him or someone with him used a woman as a human shield, taking him alive at that point becomes infinity more difficult/impossible.


----------



## Explorer

Although I didn't celebrate, I was thinking about all the comments regarding those who did.

I've known families who were happy after they got closure due to a murderer being executed. Some of them have been very happy, although with mixed emotions. Others have praised God that justice was finally done, and that the person who violated (for example) their daughter and made jokes about torturing her was wiped off the face of the earth.

On 9/11, I lost over 15 people I knew. 5 were people I definitely cared about. 4 were neighbors on one of the planes, including their small daughter. For them, a small memorial was planted in the small park in our town. 

Given how little effect, say, the royal family actually has on the lives of UK citizens, I suspect that it would be a puzzle to some that the death of Bin Laden, or the royal wedding, would invoke celebration among anyone. 

As most of the posters who have been arguing with the celebratory reaction are from the UK, I can understand the suffering all the royal wedding celebration has caused them. However, it's not everyone in the UK who went overboard, just as it wasn't everyone in the US who was celebrating.

I think it's worthwhile to remind some that, in the same way that they themselves don't fit the royal wedding celebrating profile, not everyone in the US fits the OBL celebrating profile. We're not your enemy here on SS.org. 

Just a thought!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I'd say capture him alive also, except for one little thing, HE'S SHOOTING BACK!!!


----------



## Blind Theory

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'd say capture him alive also, except for one little thing, HE'S SHOOTING BACK!!!



+1

It is kind of hard to ask someone to surrender when they are trying to kill you. My dad works in law enforcement and this past November he lost a fellow coworker and close friend due to a gun fight. He didn't want to surrender to the police and started shooting, he killed a great man who left behind 4 kids and a wife, and then he himself was killed. My point being, some would rather die fighting than surrender. OBL was the same, he probably viewed himself as a martyr and thought that was how he wanted to go. You cannot reason with someone when they think like that.


----------



## Waelstrum

I celebrated his death in my own personal way: I went about my business pretty much as normal, but while I did I took note at how lucky I am to have the freedom to do so. This is the same freedom that this dick would have denied me had he got his way.

I don't get why some people don't like the way some Americans are reacting. Many Americans chant USA USA and America fuck yeah as a form of celebration, just like many Australian punch each other in the arm and call each other cunts as a form of bonding, just like many Brits will sarcastically insult each other in a form of friendly interaction. People are different, and will act differently. (Also not everyone in these nations act like that, me included.)

Basically, a bad man died in a war that he started. It's not the end, but it is a good victory. Especially considering how shit international news has been recently it's nice to have a win. You shouldn't complain that people are taking some good news sightly out of proportion when you consider that taking every bit of bad news as strongly leaves a very depressed world.


----------



## Daemoniac

Waelstrum said:


> I don't get why some people don't like the way some Americans are reacting. Many Americans chant USA USA and America fuck yeah as a form of celebration, just like many Australian punch each other in the arm and call each other cunts as a form of bonding, just like many Brits will sarcastically insult each other in a form of friendly interaction. People are different, and will act differently. (Also not everyone in these nations act like that, me included.)



The issue I personally have with it is that, taking your examples, we don't "punch each other in the arm and call each other cunts" over the death of someone, and taking that much glee in it simply feels tasteless to me no matter how evil the person.

Like I've already said, I'm "glad" he's dead in that I am acutely aware of the kind of person he was, what he wished on us and what he would have the world we know and love turned to, but I cannot fathom actively celebrating the death of another person with such fervor - especially given that the troops are still there and the civilian population over there is still suffering so much.

For me it's a small (but psychologically important) victory for the people of the US and some solace (albeit late in the game) for those who lost friends and family on 9/11, and nothing more.


----------



## Waelstrum

Daemoniac said:


> The issue I personally have with it is that, taking your examples, we don't "punch each other in the arm and call each other cunts" over the death of someone, and taking that much glee in it simply feels tasteless to me no matter how evil the person.



One person I know actually is.


----------



## ss22

_Basically, a bad man died in a war that he started._

Perhaps I'm nitpicking but I question whether OBL started the war. His 911 salvo triggered a vast expansion in the scope and intensity of the war, but the US has had a "war on terrorism" stretching back at least as far as the Reagan era.


----------



## Waelstrum

ss22 said:


> _Basically, a bad man died in a war that he started._
> 
> Perhaps I'm nitpicking but I question whether OBL started the war. His 911 salvo triggered a vast expansion in the scope and intensity of the war, but the US has had a "war on terrorism" stretching back at least as far as the Reagan era.



I get what you mean, but that was not the specific war against the Taliban or Al Quieda (sp). In fact, the Taliban used to be American allies, and continued to be until they started attacking America.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Waelstrum said:


> Al Quieda (sp)


 

I'd just like to point out how amused I am at the variety of spellings I've seen for that word both in this thread and on the news in general over the years. It stems in large part from the fact that the arabic word contains phonemes that don't exist in the english language, but it amuses me nonetheless. It'd help if there was a universally accepted english transliteration system for Arabic, but there isn't. All the better for my amusement, I suppose.

&#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1575;&#1593;&#1583;&#1577;


----------



## daemon barbeque

krypter said:


> What would have been the better way to handle it?



That's not the first "operation" to capture someone. So many Terrorists where captured and sit somewhere in a jail. Flash grenades, tear grenades, and many other tactical moves.
Killing everyone to get one bad guy is not better than flying a jet to twin towers. This is how I see it. Remember, Justice is normally blind, not hate blinded. Also the solidarity of Pakistan is "overridden". That's not acceptable.

I fail to accept the typical "professional" word of whichever President, whose job is to find the right Lies as a politician from the day 1. I also fail to accept the given "facts" by some unknown "officials".
But I mostly fail to accept the celebration of a murder, made in a foreign country without rights, killing others just to get one guy.


----------



## vampiregenocide

krypter said:


> I dunno man. Seems like a stretch to blame that soley on US foreign policy of the 1980s.
> 
> Mostly is was religious extremest thinking and power-hungry individuals like OBL and many others that used, brain-washed, and exploited the people of the area into dealing with a shitty life by giving them a common enemy to hate. Kind of a like how the republican/christian fringe manage to rile up insensitivity toward the entire Muslim religion.
> 
> OSL picked us because we're the big dog on campus. Granted, we can sometimes make it EASY to poke at us, but we've done nothing that a hundred other countries before us haven't done.
> Now i'm not saying that makes it ok, but to say the idea of "well we kind of brought this on ourselves" is only a half truth. Its only half the reality. To fix any given situation one needs to have the whole reality.




I disagree man. Yeah, there were always extremist groups, but the actions that took place in the 80s left a lot of the Middle East not just angry, but now armed. The extremist groups used this as an opportunity to rally people against the West. I really don't think the US government is a very shall we say 'thoughtful' country when it comes to some international relations, and it annoys me that Britain gets behind it sometimes. We've fucked around the Arabs & Israelis, we've messed about with Afghanistan and Iraq, and it came back to bite us unsurprisingly. I think our part in starting the events in the Middle East is not admitted enough, and perhaps if we did then we might be as step closer to understanding why people hate us enough to kill themselves and innocent people. I find it hard to believe they're picking on the US just because you guys are big, it takes a jump to go from that to suicide bombings. But you are right, no smoke without fire and the US government isn't to blame entirely. There is and always will be a lot of conflict in the Middle East, the West just hasn't dealt with it correctly.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ So much this.

There is so much back-pedaling when it comes to foreign relations in the US, even more so when it comes to the middle east. It seems that every problem of the last decade is the end result of a poorly planned and thought out campaign in the decades before it (the 80s and 90s mostly).

EDIT: I realise that you can't look into the future when doing things like that, but the change in stance on chemical/biological/nuclear weapons (or any other for that matter) depending on who they are being used on makes the entire situation an absolute farce.


----------



## Konfyouzd

vampiregenocide said:


> I disagree man. Yeah, there were always extremist groups, but the actions that took place in the 80s left a lot of the Middle East not just angry, but now armed. The extremist groups used this as an opportunity to rally people against the West. I really don't think the US government is a very shall we say 'thoughtful' country when it comes to some international relations, and it annoys me that Britain gets behind it sometimes. We've fucked around the Arabs & Israelis, we've messed about with Afghanistan and Iraq, and it came back to bite us unsurprisingly. I think our part in starting the events in the Middle East is not admitted enough, and perhaps if we did then we might be as step closer to understanding why people hate us enough to kill themselves and innocent people. I find it hard to believe they're picking on the US just because you guys are big, it takes a jump to go from that to suicide bombings. But you are right, no smoke without fire and the US government isn't to blame entirely. There is and always will be a lot of conflict in the Middle East, the West just hasn't dealt with it correctly.


 
Since Obama doesn't have a birth certificate does that mean YOU can run for president as well? 

EDIT: Such compassion from a man with "genocide" in his name...


----------



## sell2792

They just executed him, straight and simple. They never had any intention of taking him alive, so they may aswell be honest with the media and us too.

I don't wish he was still alive, but I do think he should have been taken alive, tried in a court, and punished accordingly. Though, apparently our laws are only good when they are convienient now. Just like crossing into Pakistan without permission. We are a nation of hypocrites and liars... We have no idea what happened, what he was really behind, or much of anything. 

Celebrate his death if you wish, but keep in mind the cost it took to get there. A lot of good men and woman are dead now because of this "manhunt" and our involvement in Afghanistan.


----------



## Mindcrime1204

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that Osama used one of his wives as a human shield for himself when our boys raided his shit-plex.


EDIT: if osama offered a white flag in surrender, we wouldnt have fired at him.


----------



## Mindcrime1204

sell2792 said:


> Celebrate his death if you wish, but keep in mind the cost it took to get there. A lot of good men and woman are dead now because of this "manhunt" and our involvement in Afghanistan.


 
Not just the men who we have lost in this 10+ year war, but ALL the men we have lost forming our great and powerful nation in the past 250 years.


----------



## highlordmugfug

sell2792 said:


> They just executed him, straight and simple. They never had any intention of taking him alive, so they may aswell be honest with the media and us too.
> 
> I don't wish he was still alive, but I do think he should have been taken alive, tried in a court, and punished accordingly. Though, apparently our laws are only good when they are convienient now. Just like crossing into Pakistan without permission. We are a nation of hypocrites and liars... We have no idea what happened, what he was really behind, or much of anything.


I love how *you* know what happened, and what they *could* and *should* have done better than they did.  


Mindcrime1204 said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that Osama used one of his wives as a human shield for himself when our boys raided his shit-plex.
> 
> 
> EDIT: if osama offered a white flag in surrender, we wouldnt have fired at him.


This.

EDIT: For clarity's sake: I'm sick of these baseless conspiracy theories: if you've got no evidence to the contrary, then going on about how they need to "tell you the truth" because what they're saying isn't what you think or what you want to hear, makes you this:





tl;dr: Put up or shut up.


----------



## Mordacain

highlordmugfug said:


> I love how *you* know what happened, and what they *could* and *should* have done better than they did.
> 
> This.
> 
> EDIT: For clarity's sake: I'm sick of these baseless conspiracy theories: if you've got no evidence to the contrary, then going on about how they need to "tell you the truth" because what they're saying isn't what you think or what you want to hear, makes you this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr: Put up or shut up.





We don't know what happened. I for one am going to accept the official story for two reasons:

A) its completely plausible
B) there is NO evidence to the contrary


----------



## sell2792

Nothing like a few 5.56's to put the damper on someone "resisting." So the appropriate thing to do was shoot his wife too? lol. 

"I love how *you* know what happened, and what they *could* and *should* have done better than they did"

I don't know. I'm just going by what is in the papers, on the TV, and online.
I honestly think we would have been killed regardless. I think, I don't know, but it probably could've been done better. 


"Not just the men who we have lost in this 10+ year war, but ALL the men we have lost forming our great and powerful nation in the past 250 years. "

"Great" is rather subjective. Could you please elaborate also on that point? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic)


I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just happen to have an opinion on it, as everyone does I'm sure.


----------



## Konfyouzd

So now that we got this particular dude, what next? When our Big Figure Head in the Sky gets killed our Vice Big Figure Head in the Sky takes over...  

Sometimes the Vice can be a bigger douche than Plan A... 

For examples see: Dick Cheney


----------



## highlordmugfug

Mega  @ whoevever neg repped me for that last post: do you even understand what wide brush means? 

Baseless theories are baseless theories, and since I'm talking to whoever is presenting baseless theories, that's pretty precise. 
EDIT2: Especially since I was talking to one person, specifically and implicitly. 





EDIT:


sell2792 said:


> Nothing like a few 5.56's to put the damper on someone "resisting." So the appropriate thing to do was shoot his wife too? lol.
> 
> I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just happen to have an opinion on it, as everyone does I'm sure.


If he's shooting back, and using the woman as a shield, there's not a lot of options there.


sell2792 said:


> They just executed him, straight and simple.* They never had any intention of taking him alive*, so *they may aswell be honest with the media and us too*.
> 
> I don't wish he was still alive, but I do think he should have been taken alive, tried in a court, and punished accordingly. Though, *apparently our laws are only good when they are convienient now*. Just like crossing into Pakistan without permission. *We are a nation of hypocrites and liars*... *We have no idea what happened, what he was really behind, or much of anything.*


Yeah, no conspiracy theories here.


----------



## vampiregenocide

I see some pictures or videos getting leaked eventually.


----------



## highlordmugfug

vampiregenocide said:


> I see some pictures or videos getting leaked eventually.


I hope that they release the photos and we don't have to wait for a leak, but otherwise I


----------



## steve1

vampiregenocide said:


> I see some pictures or videos getting leaked eventually.



On the news today they said they are considering releasing a photo of him with a "precision shot above the left eye" and video of the burial at sea


----------



## highlordmugfug

steve1 said:


> On the news today they said they are considering releasing a photo of him with a "precision shot above the left eye" and video of the burial at sea


Osama Bin Laden Death Photo Sought by 9/11 Families - ABC News


----------



## wannabguitarist

Minute-by-minute: The operation to get bin Laden - World Watch - CBS News

I don't understand all the comments about how we should have taken him alive; that was the intention of the raid. He used his wife as a human shield and was firing back at the American soldiers in the compound. The people killed were armed people defending the compound.

We all know how the trial would have ended anyways...


----------



## highlordmugfug

wannabguitarist said:


> Minute-by-minute: The operation to get bin Laden - World Watch - CBS News
> 
> I don't understand all the comments about how we should have taken him alive; that was the intention of the raid. He used his wife as a human shield and was firing back at the American soldiers in the compound. The people killed were armed people defending the compound.
> 
> We all know how the trial would have ended anyways...


US holds photos of slain bin Laden, weighs release - Yahoo! News

According to this is wasn't his wife, his wife was shot in the leg but survived, they say it was the wife of the courier that they suspect was the woman used as a shield.


----------



## Ryan-ZenGtr-

No body, huh?

I wonder if some of you might like to see how Al Jahzeera and Russia Today (news channels available on TV and both have youtube channels) report this. I'm sure they offer an interesting viewpoint.

A Pakistani minister was interviewed on Russia Today, and he suggested that they knew the whereabouts of OBL for some time...

Interesting to see a subtly different slant on it.


----------



## wannabguitarist

highlordmugfug said:


> US holds photos of slain bin Laden, weighs release - Yahoo! News
> 
> According to this is wasn't his wife, his wife was shot in the leg but survived, they say it was the wife of the courier that they suspect was the woman used as a shield.



Bin Laden wife served as human shield: US official - Yahoo! News 

I was under the assumption it was his wife? Regardless, he used some woman as a human shield. And he's a scumbag. And thankfully dead.


----------



## technomancer

I'm bout ta ban some mo' bitches up in dis joint


----------



## highlordmugfug

technomancer said:


> I'm bout ta ban some mo' bitches up in dis joint


----------



## Konfyouzd

What happened?


----------



## wannabguitarist

On topic: U.S. to Investigate Whether Pakistan Helped Bin Laden - NYTimes.com



Konfyouzd said:


> What happened?



We went a bit too far


----------



## highlordmugfug

wannabguitarist said:


> On topic: U.S. to Investigate Whether Pakistan Helped Bin Laden - NYTimes.com


Knew immediately this would come up, but I have no idea where to stand right now: not really any info out except Pakistan says they didn't, U.S. people are saying it's something that definitely needs to be looked into, and me agreeing with the U.S. officials that it does seem odd this big bunker 40 miles outside the capital went unnoticed/unchecked/unwatched.


----------



## nojyeloot

wannabguitarist said:


> Minute-by-minute: The operation to get bin Laden - World Watch - CBS News
> 
> I don't understand all the comments about how we should have taken him alive; that was the intention of the raid. He used his wife as a human shield and was firing back at the American soldiers in the compound. The people killed were armed people defending the compound.
> 
> We all know how the trial would have ended anyways...



Now reading, thanks 
View attachment 20094


----------



## steve1

Its now been confirmed that Bin Laden was unarmed when he was killed, but was "resisting arrest"

Edit: also he didn't use a woman as a human sheild, she apparently rushed at the soldiers when they entered and was shot in the leg.


Just an update, not suggesting in any way shape or form that he was unarmed so shouldn't have been shot or anything.


----------



## Overtone

I was a little confused by that news since you would think they were in a position to take him if they wanted to. But you never know... they could have had orders to shoot him on sight, and NOT to attempt to take him alive simply because there's always the chance he could have escaped.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Ok... So how many official stories have we gotten so far?


----------



## wannabguitarist

Adam Of Angels said:


> Ok... So how many official stories have we gotten so far?



Officially?


----------



## Overtone

I love the contrast between holding his wife in front of him while he blasted away with an AK, and "resisting." It's like Michael Bay was directing the movie yesterday and today it's George Lucas (or Lucas the whole time  ).


----------



## steve1

Overtone said:


> I was a little confused by that news since you would think they were in a position to take him if they wanted to. But you never know... they could have had orders to shoot him on sight, and NOT to attempt to take him alive simply because there's always the chance he could have escaped.



"resisting arrest" could mean anything, even if he was unarmed. It may have been impossible to take him alive. Best not to speculate on the countless possiblities.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Yeah, haven't we had at least two different official reports?

Also, I haven't had got the chance to say this yet, but I think it's complete BS to go ahead and mock/dismiss conspiracy theorists before they've even spoken up. It's the same as saying, "I 100% trust the media and don't think they'd tell me anything other than the truth", which is just naive and sad. 

I'm not presenting any theories or anything, but I'm actually really disappointed that this forum is so narrow-minded so as to not even allow discussion that challenges the "official stories" presented in the media. I guess it's really just a matter of the mods defending their beliefs, or something like that.


----------



## Randy

Obama Bin Laden


----------



## Jakke

Really? Am I the the first to think up this tasteless stuff:

Osama bin Dead (Ghastly, isn't it?)


----------



## steve1

I'm not against conspiracy theorists as long as they can back up their claims with evidence. proper evidence.

99.9% seem to present bullshit in its purist form, then the 0.1% with something intelligent to say will be dismissed as a mentalist.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, haven't we had at least two different official reports?
> 
> Also, I haven't had got the chance to say this yet, but I think it's complete BS to go ahead and mock/dismiss conspiracy theorists before they've even spoken up. It's the same as saying, "I 100% trust the media and don't think they'd tell me anything other than the truth", which is just naive and sad.
> 
> I'm not presenting any theories or anything, but I'm actually really disappointed that this forum is so narrow-minded so as to not even allow discussion that challenges the "official stories" presented in the media. I guess it's really just a matter of the mods defending their beliefs, or something like that.



x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000


----------



## Adam Of Angels

steve1 said:


> I'm not against conspiracy theorists as long as they can back up their claims with evidence. proper evidence.
> 
> 99.9% seem to present bullshit in its purist form, then the 0.1% with something intelligent to say will be dismissed as a mentalist.




I agree with you, for sure. But why is it that what's presented by the media is considered evidence? Why do people trust the media and their government so much in one breath, and then complain about their government in the next?


----------



## steve1

its way too early for any conspiracy theorist to bring anything of substance to this thread. 

The only arguement they can make at this stage is "your government lies to you maaaaaaaaaan, open your mind and see the real picture" 

I'd happily listen to theories but right now its impossible to back anything up with any kind of evidence. We know very little about this.

Edit: I by no means trust the media, we all know they twist facts and make shit up and sensationalise everything to sell newspapers, get viewers etc, and have their own political agandas (i trust some more than others)

Government, i'm not so sure about. They're never going to tell us everything, and there are good reasons behind that. Lying? maybe, bending the truth, in some cases almost certainly.

Obviously its important to question stuff and not to believe everything you read and look into as many sources as you can and form as an intelligent opinion that you can.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I don't see any reason to agree with that position, but you didn't really answer my questions at all.

Edit: I see you've added to your post


----------



## Randy

Adam Of Angels said:


> Why do people trust the media and their government so much in one breath, and then complain about their government in the next?



I have a pretty accurate bullshit detector. The "government" and "media" (loaded terms) are pretty tremendous entities made up of a lot of people from various backgrounds and of a diverse level of income brackets. As such... yeah, I could see a career 4-star general keeping his mouth shut about a really limited, tactical campaign somewhere far away that's kept out of the headlines. However, something like this... there were probably hundreds of people who had their hands on this operation before it happened (the base where the helicopters came from and fueled up, the helicopter operators, etc. etc. etc.) who were _*not*_ Sam Fisher types, then you have the people who in the room when they were watching it go down (including the camera man who took the war-room pics, interns, etc.) who aren't exactly sworn to secrecy, nor do they have enough skin in the game to fear repercussion from "coming forward", nor do they make enough money to convince them to keep their mouth shut vs. the kind of money they could get from bring forward the "truth".

If the government goes super public about something, chances are it's almost entirely true because people are staring up their assholes with a microscope.


----------



## Daemoniac

^ I know a few people that are of the opinion that he's been dead for years, citing the difference in his facial features and the fact that he suddenly started wearing jewellery despite his religious beliefs as a big pointer towards it (going from early pictures circa 2001 compared to 2007 or so and on.)

I'm not sure what I think of that one, it seems like a fair stretch, but at the same time the pictures do change


----------



## TreWatson

before i get started i thought of a joke name: "Osama bin laid-down" 


Personally, I feel like the people who like to discredit obama on this are the self-same people who would assume 100% FULL RESPONSIBILITY on him should this have failed and we lost lives.

i find it positively hilarious how that works. I am not democrat, but i voted obama. not because i expected him to appeal to america's sudden DEMAND for him to pull miracles out of his ass and fix the problems we've accrued over close to a decade in 4 years in a marvellous display of country-wide instant gratification (protip, it's impossible) but because i feel he could have opened the gates and would have dared to do what other presidents did not.

from what i've read, Obama had followed a thread of information that had been set in place since the bush administration about his whereabouts and found it to be accurate and sent in navy seals to take him out. it's not a conspiracy, i highly doubt that this was anything more than what i was suspecting, which was Him actually "pulling the trigger" (as in, sending people in to get it done, not physically killing him) where bush did not, though he had a huge lead he could have followed.

that said i think i feel i know the previous administration's reasoning. with osama bin laden gone, suddenly the bottom has fallen out of our reason to be fighting this war on terror. i mean, yes, al-quaeda is not gone, but we were looking for him for ages.

but again, this is my reasoning after reading different articles that are fully capable of being subjective and wrong.

handclap to obama for getting it over with. OBL is dead, 'murika 1, al-qaeda over 3000 but this is quality over quantity, i suppose.

personal opinion on the situation, i feel as though yes this is a victory, but we should be a little cautious about being happy over this (also for god's sake, i haven't even seen this many people jaded against a black guy in spike lee movies. i know that might not be the specific reason why people have issues against him, but DAMN.)

nobody hate me, i'm just speaking my piece and going from what i see.


----------



## steve1

TreWatson said:


> OBL is dead, 'murika 1, al-qaeda over 3000 but this is quality over quantity, i suppose



I know what you're trying to say here, but i'm going to point out that the wording could be better before anyone jumps on it. The *quality* over quantity bit.


----------



## TreWatson

steve1 said:


> I know what you're trying to say here, but i'm going to point out that the wording could be better before anyone jumps on it. The *quality* over quantity bit.



truth, it's more like, he masterminded all those deaths, so i guess that's just one kill with more value to the victims and blah blah blah...


----------



## Randy

Daemoniac said:


> ^ I know a few people that are of the opinion that he's been dead for years, citing the difference in his facial features and the fact that he suddenly started wearing jewellery despite his religious beliefs as a big pointer towards it (going from early pictures circa 2001 compared to 2007 or so and on.)
> 
> I'm not sure what I think of that one, it seems like a fair stretch, but at the same time the pictures do change



That's actual something like my "tin foil" theory I mentioned earlier. I'm not so self-absorbed that I won't admit I could be wrong in the face of pretty strong evidence, though. 

For now, I'll gladly believe the official story above my own idea. If that turns out to not be the case conclusively, oh well.


----------



## 13point9

The Janitor was right all along...


----------



## TreWatson

13point9 said:


> The Janitor was right all along...




i'm in class.

summary?


----------



## 13point9

In this episode from 2006 The Janitor says 'In my opinion, we should be looking for Bin Laden in Pakistan'


----------



## krypter

Randy said:


> I have a pretty accurate bullshit detector. The "government" and "media" (loaded terms) are pretty tremendous entities made up of a lot of people from various backgrounds and of a diverse level of income brackets. As such... yeah, I could see a career 4-star general keeping his mouth shut about a really limited, tactical campaign somewhere far away that's kept out of the headlines. However, something like this... there were probably hundreds of people who had their hands on this operation before it happened (the base where the helicopters came from and fueled up, the helicopter operators, etc. etc. etc.) who were _*not*_ Sam Fisher types, then you have the people who in the room when they were watching it go down (including the camera man who took the war-room pics, interns, etc.) who aren't exactly sworn to secrecy, nor do they have enough skin in the game to fear repercussion from "coming forward", nor do they make enough money to convince them to keep their mouth shut vs. the kind of money they could get from bring forward the "truth".
> 
> If the government goes super public about something, chances are it's almost entirely true because people are staring up their assholes with a microscope.




Thank you Randy. 

The thing that always gets me about conspiracy theorists is that hardly anything they say has any REAL basis in reality. The stories all rely on fantastical con-games and the basis that the people running the "conspiracys" are smart enough to pull them off, but stupid enough to never think of the pit-falls of being caught. 
Example: The Osama issue.
There seems to be one theory here, 1: He isn't dead and the President made it up to get re-elected. 

My problem with this is...why now? and why make it up when the repercussions of finding out the "truth" would be the biggest slip-up in political history. 
On the "why now" front: With the elections being a year and a half away, why decide to lie about it now?? If it was to get re-elected, why not use that card far FAR closer to the elections when there isn't a year and a half worth of news cycles to wade through and a year and a half worth of "investigations" to find out your "lie" before the election. If i were to pull off something like this, i'd make sure to do it close to the elections for two reasons- 1. to make sure folks remember and 2. so i cant be "found out" before i win the election. 
To do it this far out is....stupid. Yet conspiracy theorists being right means 
he'd have to be super smart to "pull off the hoax". So, is he smart...or stupid?

On the second note, with Obama having no clear opposition to run against him why would he risk giant political suicide for no apparent reason? It gains him almost nothing.

For me, at least, THAT stuff is the reason i tend to not bother with conspiracy theorists because their stories may look great in a comic book (and i loooove me some comic books) but never tend to work out very well in the real world.


----------



## TreWatson

13point9 said:


> In this episode from 2006 The Janitor says 'In my opinion, we should be looking for Bin Laden in Pakistan'



*twilight zone theme*


----------



## Guitarman700

TreWatson said:


> *twilight zone theme*




Honestly though, I wasn't surprised at all he was in Pakistan, or in a mansion.


----------



## TreWatson

Guitarman700 said:


> Honestly though, I wasn't surprised at all he was in Pakistan, or in a mansion.




i agree. for as much as i was hearing, it seemed completely plausible he was hiding in plain sight.


----------



## vampiregenocide

The fact they came out and stated this to the public makes me feel like it's at least mostly true. The U.S government rarely ever admits big shit like this, so this 'honesty' seems genuine as it's somewhat out of character. I do find the fact they're hesitant to release photos somewhat odd, but nothing to ring any alarm bells. 

At the end of the day, he's definitely been caught or captured (may have faked his death to interrogate him and get intel from him to not alert other groups to the possibility of leaked info), or he'll release a video soon saying otherwise. Either way I don't care, he's a dickhead and now he's a dead/captured one.


----------



## -42-

TreWatson said:


> OBL is dead, 'murika 1, al-qaeda over 3000 but this is quality over quantity, i suppose.



List of Taliban fatality reports in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Closer to 'Murika 38,000

Jus' sayin'


----------



## TreWatson

-42- said:


> List of Taliban fatality reports in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Closer to 'Murika 38,000
> 
> Jus' sayin'



i was saying in terms of the fact that we seem to be parading this one death BECAUSE of its relation to 9/11. god knows we've done our share of damage.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, haven't we had at least two different official reports?
> 
> Also, I haven't had got the chance to say this yet, but I think it's complete BS to go ahead and mock/dismiss conspiracy theorists before they've even spoken up. *It's the same as saying, "I 100% trust the media and don't think they'd tell me anything other than the truth", which is just naive and sad. *
> 
> I'm not presenting any theories or anything, but I'm actually really disappointed that this forum is so narrow-minded so as to not even allow discussion that challenges the "official stories" presented in the media. I guess it's really just a matter of the mods defending their beliefs, or something like that.


There's going to be a slew of half truths for a while until everything gets completely sorted out, like with any and every other big news story.

No, no it's not. Unless there's some sort of proof to the contrary, and especially this early in the game, conspiracy theories consist of nothing more than "OH YEAH?!? WELL I THINK THAT...!" which is pointless, and contributes nothing to the conversation.

Actually, it's a matter of how arguing a point works. 

*"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."&#8212; Douglas Adams"*


After some time has past, and there's any sort of evidence to the contrary, then we'll see about what's going on. Strong, immediate, and vocal/loud skepticism with absolutely nothing to back it up adds nothing to this or any other conversation: why is it so hard for everyone to focus on the information as it comes and not throw out "WELL I THINK THAT BLAHBLAHBLAH JUST CUZ!" garbage?


----------



## 1000 Eyes

highlordmugfug said:


> After some time has past, and there's any sort of evidence to the contrary, then we'll see about what's going on. Strong, immediate, and vocal/loud skepticism with absolutely nothing to back it up adds nothing to this or any other conversation: why is it so hard for everyone to focus on the information as it comes and not throw out "WELL I THINK THAT BLAHBLAHBLAH JUST CUZ!" garbage?




Because the people handing out the information are untrustworthy, with a history of lies and deception?

Its human nature not to just "accept" the word of a liar is'nt it?

That's why I struggle to believe the official story anyway.


----------



## highlordmugfug

1000 Eyes said:


> Because the people handing out the information are untrustworthy, with a history of lies and deception?
> 
> Its human nature not to just "accept" the word of a liar is'nt it?
> 
> That's why I struggle to believe the official story anyway.


So just making stuff up yourself is a better alternative?
EDIT BECAUSE I CAN'T RESIST: I'm not asking you to "accept what the government and the media tells you" I'm telling you to base whatever opinions you do hold on fact, not conjecture, not pulling stuff out of your ass, not making it up as you go along.


I'm done trying to explain what huge gaps in logic you guys have, I'll respond to actual evidence only in here from now on.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

highlordmugfug said:


> So just making stuff up yourself is a better alternative?
> 
> 
> I'm done trying to explain what huge gaps in logic you guys have, I'll respond to actual evidence only in here from now on.





We get it, we understand you, you've said it 10 times now.

Unfortunately being as obstinate as you are, you're not really acheiving much other than making yourself look a little childish.

I get what you're saying, believe me I really do, but there are ways of saying things and the way you have consistantly shown so far is that you're unwilling to accept any sort of legitimacy in any other logic than your own. "Logic is a singular thing blah blah blah" yes very nice but not everyone thinks the same now do they?

Some have their reasons, you have yours. Berating others for not sharing or accepting your views or way of looking at things is always a dick move.


----------



## Jogeta




----------



## highlordmugfug

In aftermath of bin Laden raid, new intelligence, shifting accounts - Yahoo! News


----------



## vampiregenocide




----------



## ZEBOV

I'm sure some of y'all have seen the "Osama execution video" on facebook. Don't click on it. It's a virus. I learned that the easy way.


----------



## -42-

ZEBOV said:


> I learned that the easy way.



I'm assuming you could tell by looking at the text which read something like: "OMG Osama BIN LADEN execution VIDEO MUST SEE!!!!1!one!"


----------



## krypter

Scar Symmetry said:


> We get it, we understand you, you've said it 10 times now.
> 
> Unfortunately being as obstinate as you are, you're not really acheiving much other than making yourself look a little childish.
> 
> I get what you're saying, believe me I really do, but there are ways of saying things and the way you have consistantly shown so far is that you're unwilling to accept any sort of legitimacy in any other logic than your own. "Logic is a singular thing blah blah blah" yes very nice but not everyone thinks the same now do they?
> 
> Some have their reasons, you have yours. Berating others for not sharing or accepting your views or way of looking at things is always a dick move.




Not to speak for someone else, but i think the logic he is taking objection to is the 
"I don't trust the media because they make stuff up that they can't prove......i distrust that. So to combat that, i'm going to make stuff up, that i can't prove"


Not saying you are doing that at all. Just...i think thats where the "rub" comes in.


----------



## Daemoniac

Martin Luther King said:


> "I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that." ~ Martin Luther King Jr



That basically sums up my feelings


----------



## Waelstrum




----------



## Chickenhawk

This thread = 

Where's Orb when I need him?


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Daemoniac said:


> That basically sums up my feelings


 
If it hasn't been brought to people's attention here, the first line of that quote was never said by MLK Jr. That of course doesn't mean you can't agree with it, I just figured I'd clear things up.

Here's one of _many_ articles about it: How Osama bin Laden's death sparked a fake Martin Luther King quote - CSMonitor.com


----------



## Scar Symmetry

krypter said:


> Not to speak for someone else, but i think the logic he is taking objection to is the
> "I don't trust the media because they make stuff up that they can't prove......i distrust that. So to combat that, i'm going to make stuff up, that i can't prove"
> 
> 
> Not saying you are doing that at all. Just...i think thats where the "rub" comes in.



I think when people stop putting words in each others mouths then maybe a real discussion can take place. Until then...



Waelstrum said:


>




Interesting. I wouldn't use it as a rule of thumb though.


----------



## Daemoniac

Grand Moff Tim said:


> If it hasn't been brought to people's attention here, the first line of that quote was never said by MLK Jr. That of course doesn't mean you can't agree with it, I just figured I'd clear things up.
> 
> Here's one of _many_ articles about it: How Osama bin Laden's death sparked a fake Martin Luther King quote - CSMonitor.com





[/stupidity]

I feel like a right tool now


----------



## AySay

"Christian Science Monitor" 

OXY
MORON


----------



## Randy

Chickenhawk said:


> This thread =
> 
> Where's Orb when I need him?



To politicize the death of public enemy number one after 10+ years of hunting him? Why? Why is this a partisan thing?


----------



## Randy

Oh, nevermind.

Bush declines Obama invite to Ground Zero event - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency


----------



## highlordmugfug

Grand Moff Tim said:


> If it hasn't been brought to people's attention here, *the first line of that quote was never said by MLK Jr*. That of course doesn't mean you can't agree with it, I just figured I'd clear things up.
> 
> Here's one of _many_ articles about it: How Osama bin Laden's death sparked a fake Martin Luther King quote - CSMonitor.com





Scar Symmetry said:


> *I think when people stop putting words in each others mouths* then maybe a real discussion can take place. Until then...


----------



## Scar Symmetry

highlordmugfug said:


>



That's all I've seen so far, I've not yet actually seen a single conspiracy brought to the table, just idiotic personal attacks.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Scar Symmetry said:


> That's all I've seen so far, I've not yet actually seen a single conspiracy brought to the table, just idiotic personal attacks.


I'm laughing because the false MLK quote was just a few posts above that, dude.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm laughing because the false MLK quote was just a few posts above that dude.



My bad


----------



## Konfyouzd

Mehh... Some ppl seem to see this like those old school sets of Christmas lights or a vampire story... You don't take out the whole set by beheading the leader... Or rather, you can't foul Jordan out of the game and completely neglect Pippen, Rodman, Longley, Kerr, Kukoc and the like... Celebrate once there is a "victory"--if the outcome of this petty ass war could ever be called that.

And I'm not so sure what good "sending a message" does when they've already shown they're more than wiling to send one back... 

If there is another one hopefully our agencies can get their communication together this time...


----------



## Konfyouzd

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm laughing because the false MLK quote was just a few posts above that, dude.




Well played...


----------



## orb451

I was in Antigua when I heard the news. And yes, this thread is chock full of some *interesting* opinions on the matter, none of which am I going to bother responding to.

Suffice it to say I'm quite happy Bin Laden was killed, not captured. Why? Because it saves the whole circus sideshow that his trial would have turned into. Focusing on his rights, the "evidence" at hand, and all the minutia, not to mention the world court's right to put him to death, etc etc etc. Him taking one or two in the face is a nice, quick end to a long hunt, the guy who laid him down must be flying pretty high. My hat's off to him.

And for those who just can't seem to understand *why* this is important, it's real simple: killing him sends a huge message to Al Qaeda. It's a gigantic FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING FUCKS from the U.S. to them. 

Some of his followers thought he was protected from "up on high by the prince of darkness himself" that nothing could ever harm their leader and figurehead. And yet with all his divine protection and supernatural abilities, OBL turned out to be allergic to lead. No one in their right mind believes the war is over, or that Al Qaeda will falter, fumble and go the way of the do-do. Same as no one kills (or attempts to kill) politicians because they think the country or state will implode and abruptly end, the moment it happens.

Al Qaeda will likely regroup, OBL's senior guy will take over, there will be plenty of threats and loud-talking and it will be once again, business as usual. What changed? Their figurehead was killed and that's more than just a "meh" moment for us, and them.

And when and if they're ready, they can try and attack us again. It's not like 9/11 was the *last* time they attacked us, they've tried several times since then and I'm sure they will continue to do so. So long as they keep trying, we're obligated to keep on taking out their guys, their leaders, one by fucking one if need be.


----------



## Randy

to Antigua and  to that message.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Seriously... Think they'd leave us alone if they let us use the A bomb just once more? Or do you think that'd be opening the wrong can of worms?

Pull a Zanghief Kid...


----------



## highlordmugfug

Konfyouzd said:


> Seriously... Think they'd leave us alone if they let us use the A bomb just once more? Or do you think that'd be opening the wrong can of worms?


Pakistan has nuclear weapons for sure, and Al Qaeada claims to have them: I vote don't go there. Besides, there's no real 'terrorist' locations that I know of, so we'd be bombing innocent people as well.


No go, no go! 
EDIT:  at your edit.


----------



## Konfyouzd

highlordmugfug said:


> Pakistan has nuclear weapons for sure, and Al Qaeada claims to have them: I vote don't go there. Besides, there's no real 'terrorist' locations that I know of, so we'd be bombing innocent people as well.
> 
> 
> No go, no go!
> EDIT:  at your edit.



Very true... I guess that's why we chilled out after Japan... Foiled again.


----------



## Guitarman700

At least We only killed Bin Laden Once. We blow up his second in command at least 5 times a week. Must suck to be that guy.


----------



## caparison_x

I kinda glossed over this thread after it derailed some what.

has any one seen a real pic of dead Bin Laden? Apparently the picture the news outlets had used originally was a fake from 2 years ago conveniently used to illustrate a dead asshole.

Conspiracy theorists have a field day over 'fake' photo - Arab News


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, haven't we had at least two different official reports?
> 
> Also, I haven't had got the chance to say this yet, but I think it's complete BS to go ahead and mock/dismiss conspiracy theorists before they've even spoken up. It's the same as saying, "I 100% trust the media and don't think they'd tell me anything other than the truth", which is just naive and sad.
> 
> I'm not presenting any theories or anything, but I'm actually really disappointed that this forum is so narrow-minded so as to not even allow discussion that challenges the "official stories" presented in the media. I guess it's really just a matter of the mods defending their beliefs, or something like that.




I just wanted to direct a comment toward "Totes" in response to the highly intelligent message he left me as a neg rep: the mods haven't made a single offensive comment toward me in this thread, and I haven't even presented any alternative theories. When people start reading things in context, we'll start getting somewhere. I'm just saying that there's no reason to simply believe what the media tells you, just like there's no reason to simply believe what you read on conspiracy websites. What makes the mass media so reliable? Is it the major corporate agenda influence? Or perhaps the partisan political influence?


----------



## K-Roll

conratulations this is probably the third time you've killed OBL or?  
this whole thing stinks like fckin shit I must say.. and I definitely do not like where this is heading to.. and I'll need to express myself cause.. 

i am from europe and I have to admit i do not like the way US displays their politic games in the last decade or so.. 
first afghan where not even russian could beat afgan that's a major loss on your side guys, and i suppose NATO will probably break down once they finally admit this was a faux pas , then iraq (kill that faggot hussein and lets have a muppet gov), now they catch and supposedly kill OBL who lived in a small village nearby a paki training ground (stinks like next colonialism explosion is about to happen)

first of all- suddenly after 10 years of silence here we go- OBL is hidden in pakistan, a couple of ubertrained steroid guys on choppers land, kick the door in villa and shoot him in the head, not knocking him out to undergo a fair trial, not showing this guy on TV alive at all.. still a mystery.. some guy in black robes with beard.. whoa.. Call of Duty my ass.. 

second- if OBL was not a made up (and I think it was but thats just my opinion) fairy tale and if 911 really happened they way your governement showed you, then you've just put your cocks in a beehive guys.. cause if someone thinks you've won a fuckin medal in a redneck shooting range then here you go.. and suddenly they find his testament where he does not want his children to join al quida  come oooooon guuuuys... thats such a fairy tale - he is evil , we are good, we killed the bad guy, finally the bad guy turned to a slightly better invisible guy, god will surely welcome him cause he sent out a message that he does not want his family to be involved in such maddness he was in.. WTF  

third- people marching down the streets in joy that someone has been killed.. ok I know, 911, thousand of dead.. you have no idea about chechnya right? russia? tadzikistan? belarusia, serbia thousands of political deaths  i am not sure, but have I ever seen a nation go into streets to show joy when someone gets assasinated instead of being brought to trial? not at all 

fourth- you guys, US, are a very young nation, I think what you now do is what every second state has already gone through.. you're in your puberty, you're on your colonialistic crusade where you think you will teach everyone else how to behave, for a nice price - new land and resources and political influence, you pretty much rule the trade, if you decided to lock all oceans, the chinks would go bankrupt in 2 months  

fifth - i am speaking in general and not meaning nay of you in person.. 

sixth - you're probably the only nation which has never ever been attacked by another nation on your own land.. (omitting faggy civil wars which occur on regular basis of course every now and then everywhere in the world) -which is of course good for you but bad for us all cause we're still concerned, you were never in touch with war at all, vietnam and korea - you were the agressor sending out your troops, ww2, you were supplying everyone who'd pay enough until PH (which was nothing less then a naval base, a military base on extended civil ground) got fcked up by japs so you decided to smash all.. 

so my question is when is this bullshit from your side going to stop guys? i'm sorry but if another nation occupied my homeland, if they would set up a remotely controled governement here, then of course I'd be a partisan.. it all started with bush senior.. and for them, you - US as a nation are the agressor..its not your coca cola, its not your GMC.. its just like WW2 when you'd have nazis crawling all over this place and there would be guerillas hiding in cottages fighting for their 'good'


and seventh - how can a nation such young, with such terrible educational system in most states teach other nations what to do, when to do and how to do? jesus christ your country hasnt even given a shit until Obama about health insurance.. I am originaly from a goddam postsoviet state where we might dispose of lets say half of your living standard but we are covered.. 

end from my side.. i hope i have not touched anyone's republican feelings just needed to let it out


----------



## ZEBOV

-42- said:


> I'm assuming you could tell by looking at the text which read something like: "OMG Osama BIN LADEN execution VIDEO MUST SEE!!!!1!one!"


Actually, I read a disclaimer at the bottom of the page saying that it will be posted on all friends' walls.


----------



## Konfyouzd

chinks? really?

aside from that i partially agree with kroll


----------



## Mordacain

K-Roll said:


> conratulations this is probably the third time you've killed OBL or?
> this whole thing stinks like fckin shit I must say.. and I definitely do not like where this is heading to.. and I'll need to express myself cause..
> 
> i am from europe and I have to admit i do not like the way US displays their politic games in the last decade or so..
> first afghan where not even russian could beat afgan that's a major loss on your side guys, and i suppose NATO will probably break down once they finally admit this was a faux pas , then iraq (kill that faggot hussein and lets have a muppet gov), now they catch and supposedly kill OBL who lived in a small village nearby a paki training ground (stinks like next colonialism explosion is about to happen)
> 
> first of all- suddenly after 10 years of silence here we go- OBL is hidden in pakistan, a couple of ubertrained steroid guys on choppers land, kick the door in villa and shoot him in the head, not knocking him out to undergo a fair trial, not showing this guy on TV alive at all.. still a mystery.. some guy in black robes with beard.. whoa.. Call of Duty my ass..
> 
> second- if OBL was not a made up (and I think it was but thats just my opinion) fairy tale and if 911 really happened they way your governement showed you, then you've just put your cocks in a beehive guys.. cause if someone thinks you've won a fuckin medal in a redneck shooting range then here you go.. and suddenly they find his testament where he does not want his children to join al quida  come oooooon guuuuys... thats such a fairy tale - he is evil , we are good, we killed the bad guy, finally the bad guy turned to a slightly better invisible guy, god will surely welcome him cause he sent out a message that he does not want his family to be involved in such maddness he was in.. WTF
> 
> third- people marching down the streets in joy that someone has been killed.. ok I know, 911, thousand of dead.. you have no idea about chechnya right? russia? tadzikistan? belarusia, serbia thousands of political deaths  i am not sure, but have I ever seen a nation go into streets to show joy when someone gets assasinated instead of being brought to trial? not at all
> 
> fourth- you guys, US, are a very young nation, I think what you now do is what every second state has already gone through.. you're in your puberty, you're on your colonialistic crusade where you think you will teach everyone else how to behave, for a nice price - new land and resources and political influence, you pretty much rule the trade, if you decided to lock all oceans, the chinks would go bankrupt in 2 months
> 
> fifth - i am speaking in general and not meaning nay of you in person..
> 
> sixth - you're probably the only nation which has never ever been attacked by another nation on your own land.. (omitting faggy civil wars which occur on regular basis of course every now and then everywhere in the world) -which is of course good for you but bad for us all cause we're still concerned, you were never in touch with war at all, vietnam and korea - you were the agressor sending out your troops, ww2, you were supplying everyone who'd pay enough until PH (which was nothing less then a naval base, a military base on extended civil ground) got fcked up by japs so you decided to smash all..
> 
> so my question is when is this bullshit from your side going to stop guys? i'm sorry but if another nation occupied my homeland, if they would set up a remotely controled governement here, then of course I'd be a partisan.. it all started with bush senior.. and for them, you - US as a nation are the agressor..its not your coca cola, its not your GMC.. its just like WW2 when you'd have nazis crawling all over this place and there would be guerillas hiding in cottages fighting for their 'good'
> 
> 
> and seventh - how can a nation such young, with such terrible educational system in most states teach other nations what to do, when to do and how to do? jesus christ your country hasnt even given a shit until Obama about health insurance.. I am originaly from a goddam postsoviet state where we might dispose of lets say half of your living standard but we are covered..
> 
> end from my side.. i hope i have not touched anyone's republican feelings just needed to let it out



Way to be racist, homophobic & xenophobic all in one post.  Its the trifecta!


----------



## K-Roll

Konfyouzd said:


> chinks? really?
> 
> aside from that i partially agree with kroll




yeap, the fact is that no nation will ever dare to challenge the US, maybe mexico once again, but who knows  if the world will ever be on an edge of a new modern war crisis, lets say, N Korea and Chinese would join together to face US, you'd just lock down all oceans cause you've got the huuughest navy in the world, you'd put an embargo on all goods imported from china to US and chinese would pretty much die due to that..nothing would be shipped out, and today 99% of the stuff is made in china, the only thing which keeps them alive is your dollar bills, cause they and NK need to buy food from all surrounding nations cause they do not produce enough for themsleves and they have nothing else to trade with on the EU-Asian level, no minerals, no gas nothing.. just fckin rice  but thats just my two cents


----------



## SD83

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> I wonder if some of you might like to see how Al Jahzeera and Russia Today (news channels available on TV and both have youtube channels) report this. I'm sure they offer an interesting viewpoint.


I'm not sure about Al Jahzeera and I only heard it on the radio, but apparently some news stations in Russia compare the importance of the death of OBL to the Americans with the importance of the death of Hitler to the Russians...
Seriously, I've been thinking a bit about the stuff going on lately, and while some things are (imo) clearly going in the wrong directions (goverment maybe knowing more about me than I would want them to know, google knowing even more and if I was to use an iphone/ipad/iwhatever, apple would know even more than that, just giving an example), in other areas I finally see some steps in the right direction. Osama's down, Mubarak and ben Ali gone, Gadaffi & Assad struggeling, Gbagbo also out of the game... while we can't be sure what will be the outcome of all that, it is at least potentially good news


----------



## K-Roll

Mordacain said:


> Way to be racist, homophobic & xenophobic all in one post.  Its the trifecta!



i hope not..


----------



## Mordacain

K-Roll said:


> i hope not..



I was just referring to the racial & sexual slurs in context with the geopolitical commentary. I was _mostly_ joking.


----------



## K-Roll

ah ok i really dont mean to object anyone.. 

it's pretty much always the same even here where i live, the nation votes for the lesser evil and once in a while you have to pick amongst dumbest men in your country who's going to lead you in the next term.. making decisions in your name and so on.. I wish the US only good, I wish they will expand to an intelligent society, which would breed inteligent young people who'd take care of your country instead of bankers, war lords and other dollar related interests.. 
but whatever, the topic is clear and therefore i'll stick with it and just post this   cause its related heh


----------



## Mordacain

K-Roll said:


> I wish the US only good, I wish they will expand to an intelligent society, which would breed inteligent young people who'd take care of your country instead of bankers, war lords and other dollar related interests..



Sorry man, its still offensive. Intelligent people are the people that tend to govern. They just tend to be intelligent people that are largely sociopathic, egomaniacal and desire power above all else. There are plenty of intelligent people here that are not sociopaths that by their nature do not desire power and to a large extent, money.

Its the same the world over, and equating an entire countries' population to its loudest (and most manipulative) inhabitants smacks of ignorance. The US certainly doesn't have the market cornered on stupidity, nationalist pride or for that matter, violence. We don't have to dig too far into the history books to reveal Europe's legacy of colonization, exploitation of indigenous peoples or slave-trading. I mention that not to attack Europeans, merely to illustrate the point that the US is not the only nation that has done bad things in its time.


----------



## K-Roll

I completely agree


----------



## Adam Of Angels

So does anybody know why they changed the official story? If they're so careful, don't they realize that a virtual short storm is caused by changing the official story? Remember Roswell?


----------



## Mordacain

Adam Of Angels said:


> So does anybody know why they changed the official story? If they're so careful, don't they realize that a virtual short storm is caused by changing the official story? Remember Roswell?



The changes are exceptionally minimal and are entirely consistent of what changes when you go from radio chatter reports (which is what the white house was essentially listening to) versus reading an official report. The major difference in my mind was the human shield which was not mentioned in any of the original reports I read and filtered down as a rumor. Whether or not OBL was armed himself is irrelevant to me, there was a firefight and people tend to get shot in firefights.

This article highlights the observed differences:
The killing of Osama bin Laden: how the White House changed its story | World news | The Guardian

And just my $.02: Even if the soldiers executed OBL, I think that course of action was justified given the danger the man represented (even if only as a figurehead) should he possibly escape. Its much better the man to have died ignominously, cowering in a compound behind one of his wives. It makes him far less a martyr, and offers a clearer message to his followers.


----------



## vampiregenocide

The fact of the matter is it's somewhat unfair to judge the quick actions of the men who took part in that operation. Any number of 'what if' variables had to have been considered in a short amount of time. What if he had a concealed weapon or a bomb? What if there was someone hiding ready for an ambush? They dealt with the situation based on what they knew and what was possible in that moment of time. None of us were there and few of us have the military training necessary to make an educated judgement in what to do in that situation. No friendlies were lost that I know of, so clearly they did well in that respect.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

K-Roll said:


> first of all- suddenly after 10 years of silence here we go- OBL is hidden in pakistan, a couple of ubertrained steroid guys on choppers land, kick the door in villa and shoot him in the head


 
I doubt SEALs are very common out there in Bratislava, but if you ever run across any I strongly recommend having a conversation with them about whether or not they're on steroids.


----------



## nikt

K-Roll said:


> conratulations this is probably the third time you've killed OBL or?
> this whole thing stinks like fckin shit I must say.. and I definitely do not like where this is heading to.. and I'll need to express myself cause..
> 
> i am from europe and I have to admit i do not like the way US displays their politic games in the last decade or so..
> first afghan where not even russian could beat afgan that's a major loss on your side guys, and i suppose NATO will probably break down once they finally admit this was a faux pas , then iraq (kill that faggot hussein and lets have a muppet gov), now they catch and supposedly kill OBL who lived in a small village nearby a paki training ground (stinks like next colonialism explosion is about to happen)
> 
> first of all- suddenly after 10 years of silence here we go- OBL is hidden in pakistan, a couple of ubertrained steroid guys on choppers land, kick the door in villa and shoot him in the head, not knocking him out to undergo a fair trial, not showing this guy on TV alive at all.. still a mystery.. some guy in black robes with beard.. whoa.. Call of Duty my ass..
> 
> second- if OBL was not a made up (and I think it was but thats just my opinion) fairy tale and if 911 really happened they way your governement showed you, then you've just put your cocks in a beehive guys.. cause if someone thinks you've won a fuckin medal in a redneck shooting range then here you go.. and suddenly they find his testament where he does not want his children to join al quida  come oooooon guuuuys... thats such a fairy tale - he is evil , we are good, we killed the bad guy, finally the bad guy turned to a slightly better invisible guy, god will surely welcome him cause he sent out a message that he does not want his family to be involved in such maddness he was in.. WTF
> 
> third- people marching down the streets in joy that someone has been killed.. ok I know, 911, thousand of dead.. you have no idea about chechnya right? russia? tadzikistan? belarusia, serbia thousands of political deaths  i am not sure, but have I ever seen a nation go into streets to show joy when someone gets assasinated instead of being brought to trial? not at all
> 
> fourth- you guys, US, are a very young nation, I think what you now do is what every second state has already gone through.. you're in your puberty, you're on your colonialistic crusade where you think you will teach everyone else how to behave, for a nice price - new land and resources and political influence, you pretty much rule the trade, if you decided to lock all oceans, the chinks would go bankrupt in 2 months
> 
> fifth - i am speaking in general and not meaning nay of you in person..
> 
> sixth - you're probably the only nation which has never ever been attacked by another nation on your own land.. (omitting faggy civil wars which occur on regular basis of course every now and then everywhere in the world) -which is of course good for you but bad for us all cause we're still concerned, you were never in touch with war at all, vietnam and korea - you were the agressor sending out your troops, ww2, you were supplying everyone who'd pay enough until PH (which was nothing less then a naval base, a military base on extended civil ground) got fcked up by japs so you decided to smash all..
> 
> so my question is when is this bullshit from your side going to stop guys? i'm sorry but if another nation occupied my homeland, if they would set up a remotely controled governement here, then of course I'd be a partisan.. it all started with bush senior.. and for them, you - US as a nation are the agressor..its not your coca cola, its not your GMC.. its just like WW2 when you'd have nazis crawling all over this place and there would be guerillas hiding in cottages fighting for their 'good'
> 
> 
> and seventh - how can a nation such young, with such terrible educational system in most states teach other nations what to do, when to do and how to do? jesus christ your country hasnt even given a shit until Obama about health insurance.. I am originaly from a goddam postsoviet state where we might dispose of lets say half of your living standard but we are covered..
> 
> end from my side.. i hope i have not touched anyone's republican feelings just needed to let it out



great post with lot of my own thoughts 

Even god damn nazis had right for trial.


----------



## vampiregenocide

K-Roll has a very stereotypical view of America as ruthless cowboys, and that for some reason all American's must be as uneducated and ignorant as their politicians. Using the words 'faggot' and 'chink' in a debate does not imply much intelligence in itself, so you may wish to be more thoughtful of how you present your opinion.

I can agree there is no smoke without fire. The US has done some real sick acts of terrorism itself, and has a lot to answer for. But in this world, no one is innocent. The US are just the biggest bullies in the international playground, and that pisses al the other bullies off. 

If you think China and North Korea would willingly join together, you're not looking at things right. China supply a fuck load of products to the Western world, so they are a valuable business asset. America would protect China and China would not want to mess with one of it's biggest customers. North Korea would find themselves very alone should they decide to cause trouble. It would be dealt with quickly. As for 'shutting down the oceans', again America would only suffer as a result. It just wouldn't work. 

You have a somewhat odd view of the world, though I won't say completely wrong. The US do have a way to go before politically and socially they're on the same level as some other MEDCs, but they aren't idiots. The American people that I've met and spoken to are lovely, and I'm glad I have spoken to them because it has stopped me having the view of America that you have. A government's actions do not reflect it's people.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

vampiregenocide said:


> I can agree there is no smoke without fire. The US has done some real sick acts of terrorism itself, and has a lot to answer for. But in this world, no one is innocent. The US are just the biggest bullies in the international playground, and that pisses al the other bullies off.


 

I kinda look at Europe and the US as an adult and a teenager. The adult chastises the teen for doing the same stupid shit he used to do when he was younger, and the teen isn't going to listen because he has to learn those lessons for himself, just like the adult did.

It makes sense in my head .


----------



## wannabguitarist

K-Roll said:


> conratulations this is probably the third time you've killed OBL or?
> this whole thing stinks like fckin shit I must say.. and I definitely do not like where this is heading to.. and I'll need to express myself cause..
> 
> i am from europe and I have to admit i do not like the way US displays their politic games in the last decade or so..
> first afghan where not even russian could beat afgan that's a major loss on your side guys, and i suppose NATO will probably break down once they finally admit this was a faux pas , then iraq (kill that faggot hussein and lets have a muppet gov), now they catch and supposedly kill OBL who lived in a small village nearby a paki training ground (stinks like next colonialism explosion is about to happen)
> 
> first of all- suddenly after 10 years of silence here we go- OBL is hidden in pakistan, a couple of ubertrained steroid guys on choppers land, kick the door in villa and shoot him in the head, not knocking him out to undergo a fair trial, not showing this guy on TV alive at all.. still a mystery.. some guy in black robes with beard.. whoa.. Call of Duty my ass..
> 
> second- if OBL was not a made up (and I think it was but thats just my opinion) fairy tale and if 911 really happened they way your governement showed you, then you've just put your cocks in a beehive guys.. cause if someone thinks you've won a fuckin medal in a redneck shooting range then here you go.. and suddenly they find his testament where he does not want his children to join al quida  come oooooon guuuuys... thats such a fairy tale - he is evil , we are good, we killed the bad guy, finally the bad guy turned to a slightly better invisible guy, god will surely welcome him cause he sent out a message that he does not want his family to be involved in such maddness he was in.. WTF
> 
> third- people marching down the streets in joy that someone has been killed.. ok I know, 911, thousand of dead.. you have no idea about chechnya right? russia? tadzikistan? belarusia, serbia thousands of political deaths  i am not sure, but have I ever seen a nation go into streets to show joy when someone gets assasinated instead of being brought to trial? not at all
> 
> fourth- you guys, US, are a very young nation, I think what you now do is what every second state has already gone through.. you're in your puberty, you're on your colonialistic crusade where you think you will teach everyone else how to behave, for a nice price - new land and resources and political influence, you pretty much rule the trade, if you decided to lock all oceans, the chinks would go bankrupt in 2 months
> 
> fifth - i am speaking in general and not meaning nay of you in person..
> 
> sixth - you're probably the only nation which has never ever been attacked by another nation on your own land.. (omitting faggy civil wars which occur on regular basis of course every now and then everywhere in the world) -which is of course good for you but bad for us all cause we're still concerned, you were never in touch with war at all, vietnam and korea - you were the agressor sending out your troops, ww2, you were supplying everyone who'd pay enough until PH (which was nothing less then a naval base, a military base on extended civil ground) got fcked up by japs so you decided to smash all..
> 
> so my question is when is this bullshit from your side going to stop guys? i'm sorry but if another nation occupied my homeland, if they would set up a remotely controled governement here, then of course I'd be a partisan.. it all started with bush senior.. and for them, you - US as a nation are the agressor..its not your coca cola, its not your GMC.. its just like WW2 when you'd have nazis crawling all over this place and there would be guerillas hiding in cottages fighting for their 'good'
> 
> 
> and seventh - how can a nation such young, with such terrible educational system in most states teach other nations what to do, when to do and how to do? jesus christ your country hasnt even given a shit until Obama about health insurance.. I am originaly from a goddam postsoviet state where we might dispose of lets say half of your living standard but we are covered..
> 
> end from my side.. i hope i have not touched anyone's republican feelings just needed to let it out



There is some good stuff in here but most of it is covered up by uneducated, poorly thought-out, closed-minded bullshit. Your post reads like you couldn't make up your mind on whether or not you wanted to make a list or write an essay on shitty things America has done+some stuff about China . Way to go man


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I kinda look at Europe and the US as an adult and a teenager. The adult chastises the teen for doing the same stupid shit he used to do when he was younger, and the teen isn't going to listen because he has to learn those lessons for himself, just like the adult did.
> 
> It makes sense in my head .





Except the teenager is a hideously strong Incredible Hulk.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I kinda look at Europe and the US as an adult and a teenager. The adult chastises the teen for doing the same stupid shit he used to do when he was younger, and the teen isn't going to listen because he has to learn those lessons for himself, just like the adult did.
> 
> It makes sense in my head .



Yeah thats how I see it.


----------



## synrgy

vampiregenocide said:


> Yeah thats how I see it.



Me too, except I think we're forgetting the third 'generation' in the analogy: The Romans. 

So the adult has made mistakes and can't stand watching the teenager make the same mistakes, meanwhile both parties have completely failed to heed the warnings issued by the 'grandparent'.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Scar Symmetry said:


> Except the teenager is a hideously strong Incredible Hulk.


 
Yeah, the potential to fuck up just gets stronger with each generation. When my parents were kids there was beer, weed and syphilis. Our generation gets coke, meth and AIDS.

Europe had boats, cannons and the printing press, America has Bombers, full-autos and the internet.


----------



## steve1

Just wondering, are the mods going to release any kind of warning about using any pictures of the body that may be released, as memes?

Just to clear up the stance mods will take on it when the inevitable happens.


----------



## Guitarman700

I don't wanna see any pictures. That shit is just gross and demeaning.


----------



## Randy

steve1 said:


> Just wondering, are the mods going to release any kind of warning about using any pictures of the body that may be released, as memes?
> 
> Just to clear up the stance mods will take on it when the inevitable happens.



Referencing them or maybe linking with a warning would probably be alright, but no embedding.


----------



## steve1

Randy said:


> Referencing them or maybe linking with a warning would probably be alright, but no embedding.



good stuff


----------



## steve1

Guitarman700 said:


> I don't wanna see any pictures. That shit is just gross and demeaning.



Just to clarify, nor do I.

Just wanted to bring it up so that people knew what to expect.

Personally I'd like to see the banhammer plonked on the noggin of anyone who embeds memes like that. Just for the reputation of this site.

edit: actually, i do want to see the pictures if they are released. just not on this site, and not in meme form.

2nd edit: want is the wrong word, if they are released i will look at them for the purposes of being able to form an opinion and out of morbid curiosity.


----------



## vampiregenocide

This site has never stood for such gruesome memes, and I don't think this would be an exception.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Seems to be an odd mixture of reaction regarding his death and the pictures thereof.

Celebrating a man's death? DISRESPECTFUL!

Publishing pictures of his corpse for the whole world to see? A-O-KAY!


----------



## Randy

I've never quite understood the whole "releasing pictures of the corpse" thing. I mean, I get it from the perspective of confirming for everybody that the person is dead, but it seems so gruesome and graphic. For Christ's sake, they blur out the genitals on Gitmo detainees but they can show a person's bullet ridden body with all the fixins hanging out? That's just puzzling.


----------



## CFB

Everybody has seen the brutal pictures of Abu ghraib. They are very graphic and yet I think the world is a better place because we know just how horrible it was. I say we deserve the pictures so we can see what happened to one of the worst people in the modern world. They will probably be leaked anyway..


----------



## 1000 Eyes

So no photo to be released, because it might stir Al Qaeda or whoever, into committing retaliatory strikes?..Like killing the guy in the first place wasn't enough to do that?

I cant believe how they just trot this dung out and people lap it up. And if you do not lap it up, your are a conspiracy theorist (their words not mine).

I don't understand the argument that the image is too gruesome for release either. In the internet age, where we have seen beheadings and all sorts of crazy stuff, it seems like a weak argument.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

I've just realised that I don't care whatever happened


----------



## orb451

More of the same ol' "being the bigger people" bullshit. Just release the fucking photos, eventually they'll come out anyway. When they capture our guys, it's fine for them to trot them out on YT and cut their fucking heads off, but we kill their kingpin and releasing the photo will send them over the edge? Lame. 

Stop pussy-footing around with these people...


----------



## vampiregenocide

Scar Symmetry said:


> I've just realised that I don't care whatever happened



Same.  He's either dead or captured and being tortured for intel, either way not an issue anymore.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

So...


Dude was said to be dying of kidney failure several years ago.

He defies death to the point where he's healthy enough to resist arrest... Healthy enough to resist Navy Seals........................

.....ok, so he had a gun, and was using a human shield, that's why he was shot - happy now?

Alright, so he didn't have a gun, and didn't use a human shield.. So what? Still makes sense, just stop using your brain so much.

We can't have the proof of his death because they got rid of his body, and we can't see pictures or else the bad guys will get upset.


Ok.

So if I'm really off base for questioning all of this, I don't belong amongst y'all.

Also, they almost immediately said that they had DNA confirmation that they did indeed have Osama.. But, unless I'm mistaken, they didn't have enough time to have had such confirmation. Even if they did, though... The DNA sample came from his body, and then the sample that proved his identity came from where? What were they comparing the body to?


----------



## orb451

Adam I think the rumors about his health were speculation and hearsay. The rest, is, unfortunately sounding a lot like a conspiracy theory. Tell me something, if he's not really dead and we're just going through all these motions, making the announcement, kicking up a fuss, are you assuming that Osama is still alive somewhere? Maybe sipping a cocktail in Southeast Asia or something???

What's to prevent him from releasing a new video on YT or Al Jazeera tomorrow, holding that day's newspaper, flipping us off and telling us they nailed the wrong guy? I mean the only thing we have to go on is what we've been told.

I know you despise actually believing "them" but in this case, I think it's probably more than plausible that they did what they say they did and, because of the circumstances, we're left to believe them. And in this particular instance, what is the harm? If he's not really dead, he'll pop up and it'll be the biggest scandal of the new millenium. If it's true, he's lounging in Davey Jones locker at this point...


----------



## vampiregenocide

I don't think anyone is saying that this isn't suspicious, but why the fuck should you care? 

The way I see it, there are two possible realities to this :

1. Osama was shot. He was either shot 'legitimately' that is to say he posed a threat and was unwilling to cooperate, or he was shot in a situation where he could have been safely apprehended. Either way, he was an evil man who is now dead. Why argue over the legality of the death of a man who commit such atrocious crimes? A threat was neutralized, and instead of going to trial and becoming a political martyr (seeing him stand up heroically in the face of western democracy holds up a lot more weight in the eyes of Al Qaeda) he was simply killed and disposed of.

2. His death was faked and he has been taken into US custody and tortured/interrogated for intel. This would make sense, as he would certainly have a lot of useful intel and by faking his death, Al Qaeda wouldn't expect leaked intelligence and so any operations used from things learned from Bin Laden would have the advantage of surprise. Not to mention, publicly saying that Bin Laden was being help and interrogated would only cause more uproar within Al Qaeda. This is unlikely, as someone like him is unlikely to say anything. They're stubborn fuckers. But then, if he has been caught and is being tortured for info, I don't care because he was/is a bastard and we can use all the intel we can get.


That's the way I see it. Whatever the circumstances of this we win. If they want to cover anything up they can go ahead as long as he is dead or not an issue. He's certainly not alive and free, or we'll see a video soon saying otherwise.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I'm not actually presenting a theory. I just wonder what the motive is if there is indeed some fabrication at play here. I don't trust the media. I don't trust the conspiracy theories that go around either, but I see no reason to just go ahead and believe this particular story. I've suspected that Bin Laden was already dead, maybe years ago. That doesn't matter, though - I'm saying that the story is sketchy at best. For now, that is.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Oh I agree the story is shady, just the end result kinda says enough for me. I thought he might be already dead as well.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't think anyone is saying that this isn't suspicious, but why the fuck should you care?



Well, I care because like I said: if there is more to this story, who knows what the motive is. When they said Al Qeida was behind the 9-11 attacks, we ended up in Iraq. Ive known more than enough people that were sent off to fight there, with no objective to defend. Its not a moot point to ponder.


----------



## Explorer

Regarding any intelligence coups, quite a few news organizations (CNN, Wall Street Journal, etc.) have already reported regarding the computers, hard drives, flash drives and so on seized during the raid. I'm sure that Al Qaeda is aware that a lot of intelligence has been seized by the US intelligence/military community. 

It's interesting to see denigration of the us, and attributing negative US behaviour to the short history of the country. What could excuse the antisemitism in various Europpean countries? Even Slovakia has its issues; I thought it was one of those places which has issues with human trafficking with women and children. And, of course, using the word "chinks" while talking about the problems with a particular country doesn't put the speaker in the best light. *laugh*

With regards to needing to see anyone's death, I have no need. I understand the need to stop those who harm others; the world wouldn't be safe if such people were allowed to run free, whether on the world stage or in one's community. Still, to want to see someone's death is something alien to me, especially if that death was through violence. To paraphrase John Donne:

No person is an island entire of itself; 
every person is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; 
any person's death diminishes me, 
because I am involved in humankind. 
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee. 

Pictures? I'm good, don't need to see them.

Hopefully, no one who decried any celebration of this man's death will want to gawk at pictures of such. or will want to be part of that madding crowd. Wouldn't that just undermine their whole revulsion of such group behaviour?


----------



## orb451

Adam Of Angels said:


> Well, I care because like I said: if there is more to this story, who knows what the motive is. When they said Al Qeida was behind the 9-11 attacks, we ended up in Iraq. Ive known more than enough people that were sent off to fight there, with no objective to defend. Its not a moot point to ponder.



I think in this case there is no "motive". Dead is dead. Simple as that.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I do hope it's as simple as that. I'm not exactly doubting that the official story is possibly the truth, I just have to wonder.


----------



## orb451

Adam Of Angels said:


> I do hope it's as simple as that. I'm not exactly doubting that the official story is possibly the truth, I just have to wonder.



I hear ya  Time will tell if you're correct and this causes some *new* direction in the grand "War on Terror".


----------



## josh pelican

A lot of people say they will never release the photos of bin Laden's corpse... but no one hesitated to post the live video of Hussein's hanging or all of those beheadings.


----------



## Alimination

This video pretty much sums up how I feel. LOL


----------



## highlordmugfug

Officials: SEALs thought bin Laden threatening - Yahoo! News


----------



## josh pelican

The story changes so much. I heard he didn't have any weapons and surrendered with no question. I did hear his son was in the room and was shot as well.

"I've been running for 10 years and you finally found me. Good job! As a reward, you get to murder my son and I."

Something smells fishy and I'm not talking about any corpses in the Arabian Sea.


----------



## CFB

Reuters has pictures of three dead men inside the compund. They are very very bloody. No picture of bin ladin as expected, but you can estimate what he'd look like after a bullet in the head. I would link it but I would probably break all rules of this site. If you want to see for yourself they're on Reuter's front page. Be warned though, very gory stuff.


----------



## malufet

His death was too easy, I would have wanted him eating cock meat sandwiches and raped for life. Or do that thing on the movie hostel.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

malufet said:


> His death was too easy, I would have wanted him eating cock meat sandwiches and raped for life. Or do that thing on the movie hostel.


----------



## Konfyouzd

orb451 said:


> When they capture our guys, it's fine for them to trot them out on YT and cut their fucking heads off, but we kill their kingpin and releasing the photo will send them over the edge? Lame.


 
So let's be just like them... The guys we don't agree with... 

That doesn't really make sense.


----------



## vampiregenocide

I think it's a stretch to compare our actions to theirs. I can see what you mean, but I still don't think it makes us like them.


----------



## orb451

Konfyouzd said:


> So let's be just like them... The guys we don't agree with...
> 
> That doesn't really make sense.



I don't see how releasing his photo (maybe with some pixelation around the bullet entry wound) to confirm his death and lend a little less ammo to the conspiracy nutters (and others) is tantamount to releasing a video or photo of one of our guys with OBL laid out like a deer or posed like Weekend at Bernie's. 

Point being, I don't see the photo's release as grand standing or as a trophy. We're releasing it to further back up what's been stated. If OBL's followers have an issue with that, too fucking bad.


----------



## -42-

If the photo was released, the tin foil hat brigade wouldn't change their minds about any of this, they would simply cry 'photoshop' and we'd be back to square one. I think the Obama administration understands that, so they choose to remain in good taste.


----------



## vampiregenocide

I think the main reason they aren't releasing it is simply because these terrorists will latch onto anything you give them, and use it as proof of the 'wicked ways of the west'. I doubt Obama gives two shits what the conspiracy theorists think. If he did, he would've released his birth certificate earlier.

It's a tricky situation. On one hand I do think the images need to be seen. On the other, it could add fuel to the fire. It might be worth waiting a while and then just letting them leak.


----------



## Konfyouzd

orb451 said:


> I don't see how releasing his photo (maybe with some pixelation around the bullet entry wound) to confirm his death and lend a little less ammo to the conspiracy nutters (and others) is tantamount to releasing a video or photo of one of our guys with OBL laid out like a deer or posed like Weekend at Bernie's.
> 
> Point being, I don't see the photo's release as grand standing or as a trophy. We're releasing it to further back up what's been stated. If OBL's followers have an issue with that, too fucking bad.


 
I wasn't trying to suggest that they would have a problem with it. But in your post you said... "They can walk around cutting our heads off and blah blah blah so let's show America the photo." 

Now while you've clarified what you meant you have to realize how that statement came across the first time you said it. It sounded childish. 

And who gives a rat's ass what conspiracy theorists say? For the purposes of this conversation I thought we'd already ruled out any credibility they might still be trying to hold on to...


----------



## TheGraySlayer

I have seen this photo in a picture of a group of Pakistani men watching the T.V. (The photo was on the T.V.) Not releasing this photo is nonsense, as they will leak very fast (I saw the photo again on a friend's phone, this time in full view). He's dead. Or someone that looks ALOT like him had their eyebrow blown off. That would suck


----------



## Konfyouzd

^If everyone is so sure they'll leak soon then why is it a big deal?


----------



## TheGraySlayer

They can't stand the wait to see a dead man. On the ground. Mouth Open. Eyes rolled back. Blood about.  I'm going to stop now.


----------



## orb451

Well I for one don't really care what the conspiracy nutters think and agree, that even if they release the photo, *most* if not all of them, will dismiss it and say it's a hoax. For the rest of us though, it would serve as more confirmation that they did in fact, do what they said they did. Simple as that. 

My point about them "walking around cutting heads off yadda yadda" was about not releasing the photo because it might offend their delicate sensibilities. That to me is childish and inane. I would think they'd be more offended that he's DEAD and was killed directly by US soldiers than of a photo of him laying there lifeless... but whatever.


----------



## Konfyouzd

I see... And I get what you mean now. I hadn't really paid attention to ppl saying that the photo would piss anyone off. In fact, it seems obvious that someone would have to take a picture to confirm it for the person who gave the orders at the very least, no? 

But whatever... It'll be all over the internet like Britney Spears' muff shot soon enough.


----------



## TheGraySlayer

I would question my leader's credibility after he was killed in a GIANT FUCKING BUILDING that was built using $1 million, shot in the temple by special forces of a country across the ocean. It doesn't seem very smart to be in such a blatantly noticeable position... Or for such a position to be so defenseless.


----------



## Konfyouzd

I thought he believed he was protected by some divine authority...

Even still... When you're the figurehead of ANY organization for some reason ppl like to shoot at you; subtlty is encouraged.


----------



## TheGraySlayer

Or maybe he thought we were really THAT stupid


----------



## orb451

"...on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero..."


----------



## Konfyouzd

Well I was watching the Daily Show yesterday and I don't know how credible this is, but they say we've known where he was for quite some time. And it kind of makes me wonder if he was EVER hiding or if he was just chillin' there waving at us bc he REALLY believed he was being protected. 

Then again, using a human shield shows a complete lack of faith at the moment of truth, so who knows...


----------



## TheGraySlayer

I give the Daily Show more credit than FOX...


----------



## orb451

I thought the latest n' greatest version was that he was holed up in an upstairs bedroom with his ~13 year old daughter (from a 29 year old wife who was "given" to him when she was 15) listening to the firefight downstairs. His wife (the 29 year old) tried to take a bullet for him when they burst in. She failed and they got him anyway. The kid watched her dad die right in front of her and is/was cooperating with the US for intel and info.


----------



## TheGraySlayer

We have a new FUCKED UP story of the day!!!!


----------



## Konfyouzd

The plot thickens... 

It would really make things easier if they just told us what was going on from the get go, but I'm sure that's probably not _always_ the best idea either...


----------



## TheGraySlayer

Yeah.... some idiot would freak and ruin the plans somehow...


----------



## orb451

They should have had Chris Hanson handle this shit:

15y/o: Osama! I'm so glad you came! I'm going to go get changed so we can get in the hot tub!
OBL: Yes yes, you do that. Praise Allah.
ChrisHanson: Hello there!
OBL: What? What is this? Where is girl? 
ChrisHanson: She's not available right now, why don't you have a seat over there...
OBL: You girl's father? I pay you! I have many goats! Many! 
ChrisHanson: No, sorry, not interested in goats... Why are you here today?
OBL: I come to make sure girl safe, to pray to Allah and teach her the Qu'ran
ChrisHanson: Uh huh, well this is a copy of a chat log between you two:
ChrisHanson: It says here that you want to **** in her **** while the two of you watch **** ***** and then **** some **** and **** a little more and then **** all over her **** because you've got the biggest, hairiest **** she's ever seen. Sound about right?
OBL: No! That is not my chat log! That is fabrication! That is American LIES! Infidel!!!!
ChrisHanson: Riiiight, we made it up.
OBL: YES! You did! You imperialist pigs! Now, I am free to go, yes?
ChrisHanson: Yes, you're free to go...

SWAT team tackles OBL on the front lawn, game over, Bob's your uncle.


----------



## Konfyouzd

^ I guess you haven't seen the Boondocks episode starring Mr. Chris Hanson...

"I likes ya and I wants ya... Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way..."


----------



## TheGraySlayer

OBL beat Michael Jackson to the auction apparentlly...


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## TheGraySlayer

Pedophilaia is frowned upon in ss.org


----------



## krypter

I wonder if we can't let a lot of the gritty details out because it would give far too much away in terms of our operational tactics. Same with the pictures.


----------



## Konfyouzd

More than likely... That might be why it takes so long to release them. They have to be "prepared for us."


----------



## vampiregenocide

I think the only lesson Al Qaeda operatives can learn from this is 'don't get shot in the face'.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

So tempted to post some George Carlin videos, but I won't.


----------



## orb451

I just spoke to a buddy at work, he's from PK and thinks the whole thing is a scam. His reasons are:

The military academy being so close is suspect, he's thinking that if there was a helicopter(s) coming that close, they would know about it and do something about it.

Likewise with the firefight, that if it was happening for 20, 30 or 40 minutes, the people at the academy would have heard and acted accordingly.

The lack of photos/video, he's thinking that OBL was dead a while ago, that this was essentially staged and points to video of Saddam being examined by a doctor, tried and hanged as something strange as they have none of it for OBL, or none of it released yet anyway.

So all in all, his take on it is that it's election cycle bullshit from Obama. Mind you, that's *his* opinion, and he's Muslim and he's from Pakistan directly. So don't get your panties in a twist assuming this guy is a Fox News zealot or some Republican because he couldn't be further. He also has an interesting opinion on why the US wants PK in a state of instability but that's a whole other thread.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Interesting stuff... And at least he offered support for his claims. That's more than can be said for a lot of folks here at "home."


----------



## orb451

Konfyouzd said:


> Interesting stuff... And at least he offered support for his claims. That's more than can be said for a lot of folks here at "home."



Yeah it's an interesting take on the whole situation...


----------



## Guitarman700

orb451 said:


> Yeah it's an interesting take on the whole situation...




The Military academy thing was a head scratcher for me too.


----------



## vampiregenocide

orb451 said:


> I just spoke to a buddy at work, he's from PK and thinks the whole thing is a scam. His reasons are:
> 
> The military academy being so close is suspect, he's thinking that if there was a helicopter(s) coming that close, they would know about it and do something about it.
> 
> Likewise with the firefight, that if it was happening for 20, 30 or 40 minutes, the people at the academy would have heard and acted accordingly.
> 
> The lack of photos/video, he's thinking that OBL was dead a while ago, that this was essentially staged and points to video of Saddam being examined by a doctor, tried and hanged as something strange as they have none of it for OBL, or none of it released yet anyway.
> 
> So all in all, his take on it is that it's election cycle bullshit from Obama. Mind you, that's *his* opinion, and he's Muslim and he's from Pakistan directly. So don't get your panties in a twist assuming this guy is a Fox News zealot or some Republican because he couldn't be further. He also has an interesting opinion on why the US wants PK in a state of instability but that's a whole other thread.



Maybe the academy were secretly ordered not to intervene? 

Saddam was different for multiple reasons. Firstly he was captured alive and so any photos or video evidence of him before execution were not as graphic, compared to Bin Laden's. Secondly, once he was handed over he was out of US jurisdiction and so when the footage of his execution was released it was not up to the US. 

I think it's a bit of a crazy theory to say that the US staged this purely so Obama could stay in office. Someone down the line would have a problem with that, and it would get found out eventually. It would be too risky. I just don't buy it.


----------



## daemon barbeque

orb451 said:


> I just spoke to a buddy at work, he's from PK and thinks the whole thing is a scam. His reasons are:
> 
> The military academy being so close is suspect, he's thinking that if there was a helicopter(s) coming that close, they would know about it and do something about it.
> 
> Likewise with the firefight, that if it was happening for 20, 30 or 40 minutes, the people at the academy would have heard and acted accordingly.
> 
> The lack of photos/video, he's thinking that OBL was dead a while ago, that this was essentially staged and points to video of Saddam being examined by a doctor, tried and hanged as something strange as they have none of it for OBL, or none of it released yet anyway.
> 
> So all in all, his take on it is that it's election cycle bullshit from Obama. Mind you, that's *his* opinion, and he's Muslim and he's from Pakistan directly. So don't get your panties in a twist assuming this guy is a Fox News zealot or some Republican because he couldn't be further. He also has an interesting opinion on why the US wants PK in a state of instability but that's a whole other thread.



And exactly when I point out these things, I get neg repped or "fashioned" with a tin hat 

There are other fishy points too.

I think that the Navy seals do not have an Imam on board, which makes it impossible to give OBL an "islamic" burial. He have to be shaved totally, cleaned from every single "shit" that doens't belong to the body, especially some marine bullets, real shit and what not. He have to be cleaned perfectly. and the Imam has to ask his "peers", "familiy members" and others how he was. Well at least the last part makes the ritual pretty impossible 

So much for "islam worthy, respectful burial"


----------



## daemon barbeque

vampiregenocide said:


> Maybe the academy were secretly ordered not to intervene?
> 
> Saddam was different for multiple reasons. Firstly he was captured alive and so any photos or video evidence of him before execution were not as graphic, compared to Bin Laden's. Secondly, once he was handed over he was out of US jurisdiction and so when the footage of his execution was released it was not up to the US.
> 
> I think it's a bit of a crazy theory to say that the US staged this purely so Obama could stay in office. Someone down the line would have a problem with that, and it would get found out eventually. It would be too risky. I just don't buy it.


It might not be an Obama election stunt, but maybe something "worse" is in the pipes, and America needs an "excuse", or a "cheer"...maybe even a "false target" to get people'S and media'S attention to the wrong place. Who knows, all of these things where done before since the Romans or even longer, so nothing would surprise me.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Considering the conflict of reports, I'd say it's hard to assume how exactly he was treated in regards to his burial.



daemon barbeque said:


> It might not be an Obama election stunt, but maybe something "worse" is in the pipes, and America needs an "excuse", or a "cheer"...maybe even a "false target" to get people'S and media'S attention to the wrong place. Who knows, all of these things where done before since the Romans or even longer, so nothing would surprise me.



I dunno man, it just seems like we're making up things now. Sure the information is kinda sketchy, but I really don't think anything big and evil is going on here. I think perhaps they knew where he was hiding, and Obama knew this could get him reelected so he asked Pakistan military not to get involved and to let them deal with it and probably paid them off. I don't think OBL's death was made up though.


----------



## Overtone

I feel like everything we need to know about OBL's true whereabouts will be revealed in the next 2pac release.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Overtone said:


> I feel like everything we need to know about OBL's true whereabouts will be revealed in the next 2pac release.


Him, Osama, Elvis, Hitler, and Biggie all kickin' it old school somewhere in South America.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

orb451 said:


> Yeah it's an interesting take on the whole situation...




It's the sort of things I'm going through in my head as well.


----------



## krypter

My concern is that if people were smart enough to pull of a "conspiracy" then its no big leap to assume they'd be smart enough to make it "air tight". 

The fact that there IS holes in it makes it that much more believable to me. 


On the Military Acadamy bit: there is some reports that the SEALs flew in a completely new or radically modified helo. Also, i think the Miltary Acadamy KNEW OBL was there, and have known for some time. When the shit hit the rotary apparatus they knew it was US forces. Weighed the options, and came down with "YEY WE HELPED!"


----------



## Scar Symmetry

orb451 said:


> I just spoke to a buddy at work, he's from PK and thinks the whole thing is a scam. His reasons are:
> 
> The military academy being so close is suspect, he's thinking that if there was a helicopter(s) coming that close, they would know about it and do something about it.
> 
> Likewise with the firefight, that if it was happening for 20, 30 or 40 minutes, the people at the academy would have heard and acted accordingly.
> 
> The lack of photos/video, he's thinking that OBL was dead a while ago, that this was essentially staged and points to video of Saddam being examined by a doctor, tried and hanged as something strange as they have none of it for OBL, or none of it released yet anyway.
> 
> So all in all, his take on it is that it's election cycle bullshit from Obama. Mind you, that's *his* opinion, and he's Muslim and he's from Pakistan directly. So don't get your panties in a twist assuming this guy is a Fox News zealot or some Republican because he couldn't be further. He also has an interesting opinion on why the US wants PK in a state of instability but that's a whole other thread.



Very interesting. As if the coincidence with Obama's popularity wasn't enough  I still like the guy, but this is shady at best.


----------



## Randy




----------



## -42-

orb451 said:


> I just spoke to a buddy at work, he's from PK and thinks the whole thing is a scam. His reasons are:
> 
> The military academy being so close is suspect, he's thinking that if there was a helicopter(s) coming that close, they would know about it and do something about it.
> 
> Likewise with the firefight, that if it was happening for 20, 30 or 40 minutes, the people at the academy would have heard and acted accordingly.
> 
> The lack of photos/video, he's thinking that OBL was dead a while ago, that this was essentially staged and points to video of Saddam being examined by a doctor, tried and hanged as something strange as they have none of it for OBL, or none of it released yet anyway.
> 
> So all in all, his take on it is that it's election cycle bullshit from Obama. Mind you, that's *his* opinion, and he's Muslim and he's from Pakistan directly. So don't get your panties in a twist assuming this guy is a Fox News zealot or some Republican because he couldn't be further. He also has an interesting opinion on why the US wants PK in a state of instability but that's a whole other thread.



You would be amazed at how little attention people pay to events that are going on around them, especially at night. This is known as the bystander effect and is fairly prevalent in human behavior: Murder of Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm also willing to bet that there were officers/officials who were paid to turn a blind eye to any sort of suspicious activity, and considering that the firefight occurred indoors (inside a compound) and that the US troops were likely using suppressors, the firefight was probably quiet. You would be surprised how little gunfire carries in urban areas, less than half a mile usually, and much less indoors. I also doubt that it was forty minutes of continuous firing (nobody has enough ammunition for such a thing) and much closer to a forty minute standoff punctuated by bursts of gunfire every time someone attempted to take new cover.

As for the lack of photos, Obama is trying to please everyone, and much of his support base would consider such photos to be in bad taste. If he wanted to he could have them faked convincingly in an instant (there are fakes floating around already) so a lack of evidence is hardly is motive.

As for your friend's credibility, I could be very off on this, but he sounds like a Pakistani nationalist who refuses to believe that his nation's airspace could be compromised so easily (even though it has been in the past, repeatedly) that his country's officers in training could not notice something like a Blackhawk, that they were complicit with Osama, or that some of his countries military personnel might have been paid off. The fact that he places _any_ blame on Pakistan's instability on the US is fairly indicative that he seems unwilling to place responsibility for his countries' problems on his country, even though Pakistan has been unstable since they claimed independence seventy years ago. Maybe those remarks were ad hominem, but one should consider whether or not he had an axe to grind.

As for the campaign stunt talk, Obama's approval ratings had been going up during the weeks before the attack, he didn't need another boost, especially considering that the excitement over this will have petered out by the time elections arrive. Obama may have an ego, but he's not dumb and he understands campaigning more than anything else, if it were a publicity stunt he would have timed it _much_ better.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

-42- said:


> You would be amazed at how little attention people pay to events that are going on around them, especially at night. This is known as the bystander effect and is fairly prevalent in human behavior: Murder of Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I'm also willing to bet that there were officers/officials who were paid to turn a blind eye to any sort of suspicious activity, and considering that the firefight occurred indoors (inside a compound) and that the US troops were likely using suppressors, the firefight was probably quiet. You would be surprised how little gunfire carries in urban areas, less than half a mile usually, and much less indoors. I also doubt that it was forty minutes of continuous firing (nobody has enough ammunition for such a thing) and much closer to a forty minute standoff punctuated by bursts of gunfire every time someone attempted to take new cover.
> 
> As for the lack of photos, Obama is trying to please everyone, and much of his support base would consider such photos to be in bad taste. If he wanted to he could have them faked convincingly in an instant (there are fakes floating around already) so a lack of evidence is hardly is motive.
> 
> As for your friend's credibility, I could be very off on this, but he sounds like a Pakistani nationalist who refuses to believe that his nation's airspace could be compromised so easily (even though it has been in the past, repeatedly) that his country's officers in training could not notice something like a Blackhawk, that they were complicit with Osama, or that some of his countries military personnel might have been paid off. The fact that he places _any_ blame on Pakistan's instability on the US is fairly indicative that he seems unwilling to place responsibility for his countries' problems on his country, even though Pakistan has been unstable since they claimed independence seventy years ago. Maybe those remarks were ad hominem, but one should consider whether or not he had an axe to grind.
> 
> As for the campaign stunt talk, Obama's approval ratings had been going up during the weeks before the attack, he didn't need another boost, especially considering that the excitement over this will have petered out by the time elections arrive. Obama may have an ego, but he's not dumb and he understands campaigning more than anything else, if it were a publicity stunt he would have timed it _much_ better.



Great points all round.


----------



## Mexi

» Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag Alex Jones&#039; Infowars: There&#039;s a war on for your mind!

how about the credibility of Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, who has recently come out and said that Osama was killed back in '01 and that 9/11 was a false flag operation?

normally I would question the nutjobs that come up with this stuff but here's his quick bio


> Dr. Pieczenik received the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) fellowship where he was recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management. In that position he created the Office to Combat Terrorism and the Family Liaison Office. He reorganized the medical department within the State Department, and merged and reorganized the Department of Cultural Affairs and US Information Agency into one organization: the International Communications Agency.
> 
> Dr. Pieczenik created first hostage survival courses in the US government and became famous for developing the strategy and tactics for rescuing hostages around the world. Through his hostage negotiation skills he helped save many lives. He developed the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for trans-cultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government.
> 
> Dr. Pieczenik served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and/or Senior Policy Planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker.
> 
> Dr. Pieczenik continues to consult to the Department of Defense



The man is very well-connected in the channels of military intelligence and unless he's completely gone senile within the past few weeks, I'm sure there is at least SOME shred of validity to his claims.


----------



## -42-

MaxOfMetal said:


> *The first member of our illustrious SSO Tin Foil Hat Club to turn this into a "9/11 was an inside job" thread gets perma'd. No joke. *



Also, infowars is notoriously unreliable and has a very clear agenda. As for Dr. Pieczenik, does he have any book deals pending?


----------



## vampiregenocide

You what sells books well? Conspiracy theories.


----------



## Konfyouzd

EDIT: Didn't realize Ross had me covered...


----------



## Explorer

So many slurs against our service personnel. So much craziness in asserting that they are *all* staunch Democrats as well, willing to hide OBL's death until it was convenient to reveal it. I had no idea that any branch of the service was made up of one political party. Can anyone cite actual figures on that, or is that just a tinfoil hat assertion? Because that is so far out there, it goes beyond unlikely to near impossibility.

The nutter from Pakistan... logic fail.

----

I may have mentioned this earlier, but I did read in the Wall Street Journal that the body was offered to Saudi Arabia, but they refused. 

In any case, it's a striking difference, isn't it? Al Qaeda and other radicals beheading people and showing it, and OBL being treated respectfully in death. *That* is a huge difference, and might sink in and disturb some who will then question why the people they are being told are enemies act better than their so-called allies.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

Next person that uses the words "tin foil hat" I swear I'm gonna gonna crazy at


----------



## Konfyouzd

My thoughts exactly... It's come out like a million times rapid fire like the word "peace" at communion time...

Thank you for that one, Dane Cook...


----------



## vampiregenocide

Explorer is pretty much bang on. While the killing and treatment of OBL may have been possibly handled better, the overall situation is far more respectful than Al Qaeda have shown to us.


----------



## Konfyouzd

God forbid


----------



## Explorer

Scar Symmetry said:


> Next person that uses the words "tin foil hat" I swear I'm gonna gonna crazy at



I went there intentionally. *laugh*

However, it *is* extremely irrational to assert, or to believe, that a hugely monolithic block exists that could accomplish what has been proposed. It's like those who insist that 9/11 was an inside job, and that not *one* of the people in all those companies felt any regret or needed to confess, and that *all* of them were so dedicated to the Republican cause that they didn't care about killing a few babies to advance Republican aims. 

So... what convenient label would *you* propose for those who advance such absurd conspiracy theories, Scar? I think the reason people use that particular label is because the thinking is so far on the fringe that "tin foil hat" is convenient shorthand for the perceived break with reality. Like talking to people with certain other such breaks, the one with the break cannot perceive where they've gone off the rails, and therefore cannot perceive why others can't just accept the break with reality as factual or even possible. 

I'll agree that just using the label, without actually stating why it's a break with reality (in this case, the monolithic political party control over one group, with never-realized catastrophic consequences should even one member of the group break ranks) is a weaker strategy than just laying out the faulty thinking. That's why I spelled it out *and* used the shorthand....


----------



## leandroab

*Writing a book about a Bin Laden conspiracy theory*

EDIT: 


vampiregenocide said:


> You what sells books well? Conspiracy theories.



Ninja'd...

hahah


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I'm reading some interesting, so called "insider" info that says that all of this did indeed go down. The catch/undisclosed part is that Osama's whereabouts had been known about for much longer than they claim, but that he had not been killed because of some special interest that has to do with oil. Anyway, supposedly, Obama was one of the only people that did NOT want to blow Bin Laden's hiding place to smithereens. I dont know why everybody else would want to do that, but whatever. He instead wanted to do the mission as it was carried out, and it was done so with very few people knowing. So now, people on the "inside" are actually really shocked by what happened. Who knows, I guess.

So, yeah, the best "alternative" sources are saying that all of this is true. As I said before hand, I'm ok with the official story being true, but it's where they might take this that concerns me. We'll see.


----------



## Explorer

Keeping in mind how powerful Wikileaks is/was, and that was through the action of *one* person releasing information...



Adam Of Angels said:


> ...Osama's whereabouts had been known about for much longer than they claim, but that he had not been killed because of some special interest that has to do with oil.



And so, the CIA and all those who had that knowledge for the "much longer than they claim" were able to keep that knowledge secret because there was a perfect conspiracy paid for by the oil interests, and there was absolutely no one who felt a greater responsibility to the country and who would blow the whistle on such a conspiracy. There was no one who might have been willing to hurt the oil companies in any way, and everyone fell in line with the monolithic block.

WTF?

This doesn't seem likely to me. 

As I've said in a different topic, a hallmark of crazy and unsupportable conspiracy theories is the need to expand them to encompass anyone and everyone who might have opposed it. In this case, not a single Democrat or Libertarian who had political motive for opposing Big Oil had access to the knowledge of OBL's whereabouts, because the conspiracy was able to perfectly screen everyone, and move all such dangerous people away from the knowledge, regardless of work experience or other concerns. 

This also means that all those polygraph tests and deep personal background investigations required for classified work completely failed to uncover the clandestine involvements and financial dealings for a huge range of people. What an amazingly powerful organization, which managed to subvert a process which is designed to uncover just such an action on the part of any group or individual seeking to infiltrate our intelligence services!

Is that *really* what you consider a reasonable assumption?


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I didn't actually say anything about what the "because of some special interest that has to do with oil" means, so you're the one making the assumptions. Lord knows what that means, if it's even true.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Oh, and I also wasn't saying that I buy that particular story either.


----------



## daemon barbeque

It gets better and better 
Osama bin Laden dead: Blackout during raid on bin Laden compound - Telegraph



> By Steven Swinford 10:25PM BST 04 May 2011
> 
> Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off.
> 
> A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.
> 
> In an interview with PBS, Mr Panetta said: "Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn't know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.
> 
> "We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound."
> 
> Mr Panetta also told the network that the US Navy Seals made the final decision to kill bin Laden rather than the president.
> Related Articles
> 
> 
> 
> "To be frank, I don't think he had a lot of time to say anything. It was a firefight going up that compound. And by the time they got to the third floor and found bin Laden, I think it - this was all split-second action on the part of the Seals."
> 
> The President only knew the mission was successful after the Navy Seals commander heard the word &#8220;Geronimo&#8221; on the radio, a code word from commandos reporting that they had killed bin Laden.
> 
> The absence of footage of the raid has led to conflicting reports about what happened in the compound. According to Pakistani authorities one of bin Laden&#8217;s daughter&#8217;s, who was present during the raid, claimed that her father was captured alive before he was killed.
> 
> There was also growing doubt about the US claims that Pakistan&#8217;s intelligence agencies involved in the raid.
> 
> Lieutenant General Asad Durrani, former head of the ISI, Pakistan's intelligence service, said it was "inconceivable" that his government was unaware of the US raid on Osama bin Laden's compound.
> 
> He claimed his country was forced to deny any knowledge of the raid to avoid a domestic backlash. The ISI's official line has been that bin Laden's compound had "slipped off our radar" after it raided the building in 2003 while hunting for another senior al-Qaeda operative.The agency claims it was unaware that bin Laden was hiding there.
> 
> Lieutenant General Durrani, however, said that the denial was a "political" maneuver by the intelligence services to avoid claims that they were working too closely with the US.
> 
> He said: "It is more likely that they did know [about the raid]. It is not conceivable that it was done without the involvement of Pakistani security forces at some stage. They were involved and they were told they were in position.
> 
> "The army chief was in his office, the cordons had been thrown around that particular place. The Pakistani helicopters were also in the air so that indicates that it was involved.
> 
> "[There are] political implications back home. If you say that you are involved there is a large, vocal faction of Pakistani society that will get very upset because we are carrying out repeatedly these operations with the Americans."


----------



## daemon barbeque

Another "funhny smelling" fact,
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06memo.html?ref=world


----------



## Randy

Wow, it doesn't take much deviation for people to start flipping their shit, does it?


----------



## Randy

The Man Who Got bin Laden: The Most Deadly Would-be Journalist in the World - Yahoo! News


----------



## Jontain

Men who cannot tolerate others should not be tolerated. Blunt, yes, but then I have never believed in killing purly because your victims do not follow 'YOUR' god (faith, belief or insanity, call it what you will).

Although I wish I could believe anything in the media 100% as i am afraid we are told what 'they' want us to know over the truth much too often.

Either way I hope the victims of this 'UNT of a man can now find some peace.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Randy said:


> Wow, it doesn't take much deviation for people to start flipping their shit, does it?


You mean that an important international news story, that involved tense situations, and going under cover of night into another country, and gunfire, and raiding a fortified compound, and taking out the figurehead of a multicelled terrorist organization, wasn't explained exactly as it happened with all the facts in order and nothing skipped over or confused or 'lost in translation' right off the bat less than a day after it happened?

They've got to be hiding something. 

EDIT: Reading this link:


daemon barbeque said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06memo.html?ref=world



Someone else has already pointed that out for me 

&#8220;It was the middle of the night, it was a hectic operation in a foreign country, there was gunfire, so people&#8217;s accounts are clarified over time with more interviews,&#8221; Mr. Vietor said. &#8220;What we did was make as much information available to you guys as quickly as we could, and correct mistakes as quickly as we could.&#8221;


----------



## vampiregenocide

These guys are professionals. If the people who keep questioning their judgement had been in that situation, they might understand that being in their profession requires more than knowing how to shoot a gun.


----------



## Randy

Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death - Yahoo! News



> And one notable group won't be counted in the skeptic's camp: al Qaeda. The terrorist group's general command sent a defiant statement to jihadi on-line forums Tuesday--the same day Obama announced his decision not to release the photos--confirming that bin Laden is dead, and calling for its supporters to take revenge.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Randy said:


> Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death - Yahoo! News


'd

EDIT: Here's another link where I just saw this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/osama-bin-laden-dead-al-qaeda_n_858440.html


----------



## Randy

Al Qaeda is conspiring with the US government to tweak out tweens with overactive imaginations and middle aged survivalists with *nix beards.


----------



## vampiregenocide

Thank fuck for that.


----------



## Guitarman700

Randy said:


> Al Qaeda is conspiring with the US government to tweak out tweens with overactive imaginations and middle aged survivalists with *nix beards.



It's fucking working, then.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Guitarman700 said:


> It's fucking working, then.


The terrorists won?


----------



## Guitarman700

highlordmugfug said:


> The terrorists won?



Nobody wins.


----------



## Randy




----------



## vampiregenocide

Randy you just got cooler.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Someone on facebook just posted this:

Death of the birthers, birth of the deathers they just switched conspiracies.



EDIT: It was in response to this article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theti...eliefs-in-decline-following-long-form-release


----------



## daemon barbeque

highlordmugfug said:


> You mean that an important international news story, that involved tense situations, and going under cover of night into another country, and gunfire, and raiding a fortified compound, and taking out the figurehead of a multicelled terrorist organization, wasn't explained exactly as it happened with all the facts in order and nothing skipped over or confused or 'lost in translation' right off the bat less than a day after it happened?
> 
> They've got to be hiding something.
> 
> EDIT: Reading this link:
> 
> 
> Someone else has already pointed that out for me
> 
> It was the middle of the night, it was a hectic operation in a foreign country, there was gunfire, so peoples accounts are clarified over time with more interviews, Mr. Vietor said. What we did was make as much information available to you guys as quickly as we could, and correct mistakes as quickly as we could.



I see it a bit different.
The "official story" changed many many times. Since Obama and his office couldn't watch what was happening. So they made up a story, than revised it many times.
It is not serious enough. I don'T how someone can accept their government bring false information, and it is accepted so lightly. "we had to bring the news faster than the Pakistany secret service" is not a good excuse.
Now it is clear that
1) Bin Laden was not hiding behind a woman
2) There was not a long lasting gunfight
3)Bin Ladin was not armed, yet he was headshot
4)His big house seems to be only 200 000 worth not millions, and in a very bad shape
5)It seems like he had just 500 dollars and a phonecard and nothing else.
6)There where other unnesecary casualties, people we don'T know if they where in any way terrorists.At least they where not armed, or didn't fire.


This changes a lot about the story. The "blackout" for the president and other important "hi-rank" people shows some other problems for me. It was all done, and they couldn't se a thing.
"sorry boss we shot him in the head, he was screaming and not surrendering, he even tryied to kick us, it hurt y'know!" ...


----------



## highlordmugfug

It wasn't false information, it was what they had at the time. They weren't intentionally lying.

And that's all I'm going to address.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

I'm interested to know, if the top dogs weren't watching it all as it folded out after all then where did the pictures of them standing over the meeting table come from?


----------



## vampiregenocide

daemon barbeque said:


> I see it a bit different.
> The "official story" changed many many times. Since Obama and his office couldn't watch what was happening. So they made up a story, than revised it many times.
> It is not serious enough. I don'T how someone can accept their government bring false information, and it is accepted so lightly. "we had to bring the news faster than the Pakistany secret service" is not a good excuse.
> Now it is clear that
> 1) Bin Laden was not hiding behind a woman
> 2) There was not a long lasting gunfight
> 3)Bin Ladin was not armed, yet he was headshot
> 4)His big house seems to be only 200 000 worth not millions, and in a very bad shape
> 5)It seems like he had just 500 dollars and a phonecard and nothing else.
> 6)There where other unnesecary casualties, people we don'T know if they where in any way terrorists.At least they where not armed, or didn't fire.



We were told what they knew at the time, and they have since clarified on the facts as they have become available. It was a combat situation of which they were out of contact with ground troops for the majority of it, and so they could only tell us what they knew at the time. Granted, they should have been more careful about what they said, but of course we're going to find out more things after something has happened. I'll address what points I can.

1. Bin Laden was not hiding behind a woman, though a woman did try to block his attackers and was shot though not killed. This is something that could easily be misinterpreted.

2. We know _now_ that he was unarmed, but at the time it is hard to judge whether someone has a concealed weapon or a bomb on them, and if he didn't submit right away then he would be a threat. It is protocol to shoot to kill any suspected terrorists as if they survive an initial shot then they could have time to set off any bombs they have on them or pull out a weapon. This is why the Brazilian man who was killed (wrongly) over here after being suspected of a terrorist was shot so many times. It is very hard to apprehend these people as their methods are unpredictable and very dangerous.

3. I believe an unarmed woman was killed (not the one who tried to save OBL). This is unfortunate but in a combat situation someone always loses.


----------



## daemon barbeque

highlordmugfug said:


> It wasn't false information, it was what they had at the time. They weren't intentionally lying.
> 
> And that's all I'm going to address.



All available but "wrong" information. So you mean, the info was totally wrong but the only available thing? Tzhey spit out things as facts which they even don't know themselves if right or wrong?

Man, we are talking about the top soldiers making a top class operation, and the top class officials give top class bulshit, and than tell us it was the only "available" thing to say, since they where in hurry?

That smells like a real BS!


----------



## highlordmugfug

daemon barbeque said:


> All available but "wrong" information. So you mean, the info was totally wrong but the only available thing? Tzhey spit out things as facts which they even don't know themselves if right or wrong?
> 
> Man, we are talking about the top soldiers making a top class operation, and the top class officials give top class bulshit, and than tell us it was the only "available" thing to say, since they where in hurry?
> 
> That smells like a real BS!



It was a stressful situation, shit happens. Read vampiregenocide's post.


----------



## Xaios

At this point in the game, all that really matters is that the guy is dead. Even Al Queda says so. The rest is details. Yes, maybe they fucked up the details, but that's just how it is. If there was some kind of grand conspiracy, they would have stuck with the original story or fabricated something a little more convincing. After all, no one forced them to come out and say "the information provided previously was wrong, this is how it really happened." In this case, the fact that they changed the story is the biggest indicator that they're trying to be as honest as they can, not the other way around.


----------



## Guitarman700

Lotta armchair generals in this thread. I love how people know EXACTLY what was going on throughout the whole operation. 

Also, Xaios, exactly! Thank you.


----------



## sell2792

Osama Bin Laden Dead: Was Killing The Al Qaeda Leader Legal?
. 
Regardless of if he was armed, if police are capable of incapacitating an armed man, I think Navy Seals are quite capable too.
This thread is getting beaten to death, and while I seem to have been against the general concencus of what people think, the bottom line is this.

Osama is dead, Pakistan is/was pretty pissed, and the whole situation could have been handled much better.


----------



## The Munk




----------



## Guitarman700

I think it was handled fine. Pakistan could, I dunno, maybe pay more attention to what terrorists are doing in their borders. With friends like them, who needs enemies?


----------



## highlordmugfug

Guitarman700 said:


> I think it was handled fine. Pakistan could, I dunno, maybe pay more attention to what terrorists are doing *40 miles outside of their capitol inside a compound bigger than the other houses/buildings in town, that regularly sent out couriers, that burned it's trash, and that was so close to their military training facilities*. With friends like them, who needs enemies?


Fix'd.
IMO, that's the only thing that actually seems a bit suspicious about this entire thing.


----------



## Guitarman700

highlordmugfug said:


> Fix'd.
> IMO, that's the only thing that actually seems a bit suspicious about this entire thing.



Yeah, that's a real head scratcher. Maybe we should find out what Pakistani officials have made some extra money lately. Perhaps from not paying attention to certain little things...


----------



## vampiregenocide

I wrote a huge paragraph but honestly I can't be fucked. Second guessing these professionals when it is proven we don't know quite what has happened yet is frankly naive. You don't all have the intel or military experience to judge how this situation should've been handled. It's pointless. Move on.


----------



## Guitarman700

vampiregenocide said:


> I wrote a huge paragraph but honestly I can't be fucked. Second guessing these professionals when it is proven we don't know quite what has happened yet is frankly naive. You don't all have the intel or military experience to judge how this situation should've been handled. It's pointless. Move on.



BUT I POST ON THE INTERNET SO I KNOW BETTER THAN SEAL TEAM 6 OPERATORS!


----------



## ghostred7

I don't care what happened, the bastard's dead. Bottom line is that Pakistan should STFU about it.....simply put, they were harboring an international fugitive/terrorist and I seriously doubt they didn't know about it...they're just trying to save face in front of others probably still in the country.

Special forces teams in all branches of the military have their orders and ROE to follow with one complete objective: success. I've been deployed into combat (Bosnia) and can tell you that ROE can and will escalate out of order....that's why they exist in the first place. No, I wasn't SEAL nor Army SF, but still know how ROE functions and have seen them skip the "shout at them then fire warning shot" part and go direct "red & free" on the weapons in an instant (which is scary with Apaches overhead & M1 next to you).

As for the innocent people shot...casualty of war and in small numbers. How many died inside of the WTC? As for him being unarmed, pretty sure no one during 9/11 was armed outside of people carrying his orders. Pakistan shouldn't of harbored him, and the world should stop sniveling about his death.


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## vampiregenocide

I'm pretty sure Pakistan authorities were paid off so America/Obama could get the glory. Thats as far as my conspiracy theory stretches and I think it's a pretty reasonable one.


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## Randy

Oh how people forget:

Pakistan releases Taliban leader, signs peace deal with outlawed Taliban group - The Long War Journal

Pakistan releases Abdul Qadeer Khan, 'father' of nuclear bomb, from house arrest | World news | guardian.co.uk

Zakir: Why Does Pakistan Release Taliban Leaders? - Newsweek

Pakistan: U.S. not hunting bin Laden on its turf - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com

Amid U.S. Policy Disputes, Qaeda Grows in Pakistan - NYTimes.com


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## -42-

daemon barbeque said:


> All available but "wrong" information. So you mean, the info was totally wrong but the only available thing? Tzhey spit out things as facts which they even don't know themselves if right or wrong?
> 
> Man, we are talking about the top soldiers making a top class operation, and the top class officials give top class bulshit, and than tell us it was the only "available" thing to say, since they where in hurry?
> 
> That smells like a real BS!



Eyewitness Testimony and Memory: Human Memory is Unreliable and so is Eyewitness Testimony

Memories are unreliable, doesn't matter if you are a SEAL. SEALs are trained in the art of war, not the art of remembering minutia. You seem to operate under the assumption that those who work in the top tiers of government are infallible, or inhuman, which absolutely not the case.


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## vampiregenocide

Randy said:


> Oh how people forget:
> 
> Pakistan releases Taliban leader, signs peace deal with outlawed Taliban group - The Long War Journal
> 
> Pakistan releases Abdul Qadeer Khan, 'father' of nuclear bomb, from house arrest | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Zakir: Why Does Pakistan Release Taliban Leaders? - Newsweek
> 
> Pakistan: U.S. not hunting bin Laden on its turf - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com
> 
> Amid U.S. Policy Disputes, Qaeda Grows in Pakistan - NYTimes.com



Shit son.


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## Scar Symmetry

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm interested to know, if the top dogs weren't watching it all as it folded out after all then where did the pictures of them standing over the meeting table come from?



Anyone want to take a stab at answering this?


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## -42-

I thought it was fairly obvious for a long time that Pakistan was playing both sides.


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## vampiregenocide

Scar Symmetry said:


> Anyone want to take a stab at answering this?



I think they did watch some of it, but there was a blackout and so they didn't see a lot of what happened for 20-25 minutes. That image doesn't show the screen so they might have been waiting for a visual.


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## daemon barbeque

vampiregenocide said:


> I think they did watch some of it, but there was a blackout and so they didn't see a lot of what happened for 20-25 minutes. That image doesn't show the screen so they might have been waiting for a visual.



Yes!

Sorry people, but as I am an armchair general, you are armchair international experts.
The way it was handled is wrong, and it will stay wrong.
I am not happy for his dead, I would prefer him alive, paying the dues and giving the right info. Now he is in Martyr level, and we can't even know what he did, who he knows, how he handled all this.
It was handled wrong because you just can't go to a foreign land and kill people. not just Osama, but other innocent people. If you think it is legal or at least acceptable, you need some serious education!
This is not how you "bring" democracy to others, nor it is to show what "peace, freedom and justice" is.

Obama made a big mistake, I thought he might be the new sparkle, but I was wrong.


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## vampiregenocide

EDIT - Fuck it.


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## Adam Of Angels

I don't think he's wrong for going in anD killing Bin Laden. You might as well say that a child rapist is wrong for committing his deeds, but that the FBI has no right to storm into his house and take him into custody. Who cares if dude was in another country? That point is weightless.


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## Guitarman700

Scar Symmetry said:


> Anyone want to take a stab at answering this?



They were playing black ops on the 360.


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## krypter

To answer all the questions regarding wrong info given in the week post-incident. 

I have $20 on it that 90% of the problem has been uninformed, or under-informed officials wanting to feel important and "with the 'in' crowd".

During Obama's address to the nation he SPECIFICALLY said only very VERY few people knew what was going down. I'm guessing somewhere on the 4-5 people IN TOTAL. Across the world. Some others knew parts, bits and pieces that they needed to know to do the job. I'm willing to bet even the SEAL team didn't have 100% operational knowledge until it was mission go and they were in the air. Much less multitudes of gov't officials and lackys. 

So what you wind up with is a bunch of people who don't want to look "out of the loop" so they gather what bits and pieces they can and head to the media with it. All the media wants is people watching and to say "you heard it here first!" so you get a TON of news people reporting on any and all news "shotgun style" until someone hits on the right facts. 

Also, i bet we won't get too much info until years and years from now. I don't think we're done, and given the intel held inside that compound i think this type of operation will be occurring frequently over the next few weeks. To keep our guys safe, i'm sure the flurry of wrong info isn't a bad thing really. What ever we can do to keep the tactics and "next moves" off the air is a good thing. You'd be surprised what a bad intentioned terrorist can figure out by watching our news. 

Also, for the guys talking about "police can subdue a guy...." well. You are correct sir. Absolutely. 
But we aren't talking about police, we're talking about SEALs and military special forces. They aren't supposed to use "police" tactics. They are a weapon designed and trained to kill. I'm not saying that's a plus or minus either way, its just reality. A sad reality of war. 


For my money, the only thing i want to know is...."whats the REAL word on that Helo. What was it?"


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## Guitarman700

I guess I'm an "asshole" For not second guessing everything trained, elite soldiers do in the field. Next time, sign your rep.
Anyway, yes, I believe Pakistan are doing their best to play both sides here. They put on a good show, but anyone with half a brain could see through it. Cut their aid money and watch them panic for a while.


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## vampiregenocide

VIDEO: Osama Bin Laden Dead: SEALs' Stealth Helicopter - ABC News


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## krypter

vampiregenocide said:


> VIDEO: Osama Bin Laden Dead: SEALs' Stealth Helicopter - ABC News




_so cool!_


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## Static

Dont know weather this has been posted or not.

US releases photographic evidence that Osama Bin Laden is dead - Imgur


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## krypter

Static said:


> Dont know weather this has been posted or not.
> 
> US releases photographic evidence that Osama Bin Laden is dead - Imgur


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## Scar Symmetry

Honestly, I'm beyond caring again. We can fool ourselves as much as we like, pretending like we know what the fuck went down but I think I said it best in my first post. We are far removed from the situation and thus any judgement we make - whether based on the press or otherwise - is merely speculation.


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## vampiregenocide

Scar Symmetry said:


> Honestly, I'm beyond caring again. We can fool ourselves as much as we like, pretending like we know what the fuck went down but I think I said it best in my first post. We are far removed from the situation and thus any judgement we make - whether based on the press or otherwise - is merely speculation.



This.


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## Guitarman700

Obama: "What? They got Osama? And I gotta do a press conference? But I'm going 23-0 on array! 
Biden: "Yo, ht me up with that shit, I'll mow down those mofo's for you!
Obama: "Yeah!!! (Fist bump)


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## vampiregenocide

Obama : "Fuck. PSN is down. I want to pwn some fucking noobs!"
Biden : "Xbox live is still up sir"
Obama: "...I am not paying for that shit."
Biden: "Very well."
Obama: "Argh! I'm fucking bored man! Isn't there anything presidenty I can do?"
Biden: "...there is one thing..."
Obama: "What?"
Biden: "...we have intel on Osama Bin Laden's whereabouts. We could just go in and-"
Obama: "Shoot that cunt in the face! I like your thinking Biden-boy!"
Biden: "Well actially I meant-"
Obama: "To the Obamamobile!!


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## Grand Moff Tim

daemon barbeque said:


> And exactly when I point out these things, I get neg repped or "fashioned" with a tin hat
> 
> There are other fishy points too.
> 
> I think that the Navy seals do not have an Imam on board, which makes it impossible to give OBL an "islamic" burial. He have to be shaved totally, cleaned from every single "shit" that doens't belong to the body, especially some marine bullets, real shit and what not. He have to be cleaned perfectly. and the Imam has to ask his "peers", "familiy members" and others how he was. Well at least the last part makes the ritual pretty impossible
> 
> So much for "islam worthy, respectful burial"


 
Of course the SEALs didn't have an Imam with them. That's completely unimportant, though, because the SEALs didn't dispose of the body. The body was taken to the USS Carl Vinson, which is a Nimitz-class _supercarrier_. Supercarriers are manned by thousands of people, and are essentially floating cities. The chances are _extremely_ high that among the chaplain corps on board there was a Muslim chaplain, given the size of the crew and the fact that yes, by golly, there _are_ muslims in the US military.


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## vampiregenocide

They planned this for a while anyway so I believe they were prepared in case they couldn't take OBL alive.


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## 1000 Eyes

krypter said:


> Originally Posted by *vampiregenocide*
> 
> 
> _VIDEO: Osama Bin Laden Dead: SEALs' Stealth Helicopter - ABC News_
> 
> _
> so cool!_



Not cool at all man. They are spending 58 cent out of every dollar in tax that you give them, on these implements of death and destruction, rather than spending it on you, the infrastructure, jobs initiatives etc.


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## Alimination




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## Guitarman700

The Munk said:


>



Quoting this for truth.


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## krypter

1000 Eyes said:


> Not cool at all man. They are spending 58 cent out of every dollar in tax that you give them, on these implements of death and destruction, rather than spending it on you, the infrastructure, jobs initiatives etc.




I thought about it, and i decided....


No, that IS pretty bad ass. 

And yea dude, i get the taxes and all that. But lets all be 10 years old again and admit.....a Stealth Blackhawk t_hat nobody heard until it was right on them_ is pretty cool. 

And hey, if you still want to talk about the tax stuff, i voted for Obama and rallied against extra defense spending. But hey, they still spent it so at least they got something cool with my $.58.


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## Whiskey_Funeral

I wonder if Pakistan is going to refund us the $20 billion dollars we've given them in the past seven years or so to help "fight terrorism" (AKA, allow the world's most wanted man to construct a one million dollar 38,000 square foot compound surrounded by 18 ft. tall barbed wired walls 0.8 miles away from the Pakistan Military Academy and 100 miles away from Pakistan's capitol).


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## Grand Moff Tim

I like to imagine that Bin Laden was living a decade or so in the past technology-wise when we found him, because he was trying to stay under the radar. That way I can picture him sitting on a bean bag chair playing Pokemon Red on Gameboy Advance when SEAL team Six kicked down the door and gave him a third eyehole.


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## vampiregenocide

1000 Eyes said:


> Not cool at all man. They are spending 58 cent out of every dollar in tax that you give them, on these implements of death and destruction, rather than spending it on you, the infrastructure, jobs initiatives etc.



In a world full of violence, sometimes it's good to pay for a really big gun.


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## Alimination

vampiregenocide said:


> In a world full of violence, sometimes it's good to pay for a really big gun.



You mean violence that we start.


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## Adam Of Angels

I don't care what the rest of the world is doing, I don't let it's examples decide what is right and wrong for me.


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## Guitarman700

Adam Of Angels said:


> I don't care what the rest of the world is doing, I don't let it's examples decide what is right and wrong for me.



Good man.


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## vampiregenocide

Adam Of Angels said:


> I don't care what the rest of the world is doing, I don't let it's examples decide what is right and wrong for me.



I'm not saying go to war and shit, I'm just saying it's foolish to not be armed in a world full of people. Your personal morals mean nothing to people shooting at you.



Alimination said:


> You mean violence that we start.



There's always been violence in the Middle East. We just fucked it up some more.


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## -42-

1000 Eyes said:


> Not cool at all man. They are spending 58 cent out of every dollar in tax that you give them, on these implements of death and destruction, rather than spending it on you, the infrastructure, jobs initiatives etc.









We use roughly $0.20 out of every $1.00 on defense. We spend almost three times as much on social programs. I don't where you got such an outrageous figure, but it's clear bullshit. 

/drift


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## Randy

This is unreal. PSN down for a ridiculous amount of time, the US kills Bin Laden and bombs Yemen; and yet Hitler hasn't gotten angry and gone on a rant about any of them? Inconceivable.


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## Sephiroth952

Randy said:


> This is unreal. PSN down for a ridiculous amount of time, the US kills Bin Laden and bombs Yemen; and yet Hitler hasn't gotten angry and gone on a rant about any of them? Inconceivable.


nein


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## 1000 Eyes

-42- said:


> We use roughly $0.20 out of every $1.00 on defense. We spend almost three times as much on social programs. I don't where you got such an outrageous figure, but it's clear bullshit.
> 
> /drift



Nice one! What year is that from?

I heard the 0.58cents thing mentioned on Irish TV which I didnt check up at the time..but according to google in 2008 58% of all discretionary spending was on the military, which is almost certainly where the figure came from.


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## -42-

That's the 2010 budget, so it's current. And as you can see, discretionary spending is only 2.97% of the national budget so it's a drop in the bucket.


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## wannabguitarist

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/world/asia/10pakistan.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw

Way to go Pakistan


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## ghostred7

People laugh at me when I'm stockpiling my ammo & defensive mechanisms....heh. I live in the same city w/ the CDC.....if I could have a M1 Abrahms for BradleyFV in my driveway locked & loaded, I would.


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## TheGraySlayer

^Weapons wouldn't be as much of a blessing as LOTS and LOTS of plastic.
Back on topic, Al-Queda released a statement affirming that they will make America weep.  psssh


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## vampiregenocide




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## Guitarman700

vampiregenocide said:


>




I see that, and raise you MERICUH!


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## vampiregenocide

America in a nutshell really.


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## 1000 Eyes




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## sell2792

1000 Eyes said:


> Not cool at all man. They are spending 58 cent out of every dollar in tax that you give them, on these implements of death and destruction, rather than spending it on you, the infrastructure, jobs initiatives etc.


 

Be careful what you say man. Everyone will automatically disagree with you and you'll get a ton negative rep... like it even matters.

I don't know about the $0.58 out of every dollar, but I do know we spend a shit ton on having the most technologically advanced military in the world... So we can blow up third world countries.


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## Mindcrime1204

Dear Westboro Baptist Church:

We have a funeral for you to protest. It's somewhere in the middle of the northern Arabian Sea. We would be more than happy to help you pack, fly you there, and drop you off.
Sincerely,
America


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## JJ Rodriguez

A Navy Seal walks into a bar and orders an OBL. The bartender says "Huh, whats that?"

The Seal says "two shots and a splash of water."


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