# Gibson to resurrect Steinberger, including a new model in collaboration with Ned Steinberger



## Accoun (Jun 16, 2022)

EXCLUSIVE: Gibson and Ned Steinberger are collaborating on an all-new Steinberger guitar design… and yes, it’s headless


Gibson has owned the brand since the late 80s but has now teamed up with the iconic headless instrument’s creator to design an all-new model that promises to be “cutting edge”.




guitar.com







> Now however, for the first time in decades, _Guitar.com_ can exclusively reveal that the Steinberger brand will debut a brand new model designed by Ned Steinberger, in collaboration with the company’s current owners, Gibson Brands.
> 
> 
> While details are still under wraps for now, the new guitar will retain the headless design of the originals and boast a plethora of new, as yet unrevealed, innovations that build upon the iconic classic instruments Ned Steinberger designed over 40 years ago.


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## MFB (Jun 16, 2022)

Biggest question is whether or not they'll be doing graphite necks again, I think that'll be the determining factor for a number of buyers


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## ArtDecade (Jun 16, 2022)

Color me interested.


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## bostjan (Jun 16, 2022)

Ok, you have my attention. This is most likely either going to be awesome or ridiculous.


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## Crungy (Jun 16, 2022)

I'd hope for graphite, otherwise just DIY with a cutting board and call it a day.


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## jaxadam (Jun 16, 2022)

Holy fucking shit I'm buying one no questions asked.


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## BigViolin (Jun 16, 2022)

Cautiously optimistic.

Very cautiously.


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## Emperoff (Jun 16, 2022)

Well... Gibson pioneered the headless guitar concept, so this makes absolute sense.


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## spudmunkey (Jun 16, 2022)

Watch it be some heavy, flamed maple/mahogany LesPaul-looking thing, with a "fake" headstock, just with a new (but still very innovative) headless bridge/nut system.


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## MFB (Jun 16, 2022)

Here's to also hoping they figure out a way for their guitars to not need the double-ball end strings that come in all of like, 2 gauges; I think we can all see the writing on the wall with any proprietary technologies like that on something as dicey as a Steinberger revival.


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## ArtDecade (Jun 16, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Holy fucking shit I'm buying one no questions asked.



When it is a 6500 dollar Spirit, we can revisit this comment.


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## CanserDYI (Jun 16, 2022)

Ah, grampa headless.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 16, 2022)

I hope the recent trend of headless Superstrats means they'll also reissue the M-series.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jun 16, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Well... Gibson pioneered the headless guitar concept, so this makes absolute sense.



This is what I came here for.


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## bigcupholder (Jun 16, 2022)

I'm excited to see what they come up with. I know they likely won't touch Gibson IP, but a headless take on an SG would be pretty cool


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## ShredmasterD (Jun 16, 2022)

i did break down and buy a Gibson Dual Rectifier recently so maybe Gibsberger would be cool.

Steinberger's graphite neck guitars where pretty cool back in the day. always wanted one but was out of my league then. now to probably : / And the bass has that unique tone.


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## AMOS (Jun 16, 2022)

I hope they come out with another M-series, this is me in the early 90's with my M-series with a Trans-trem. They only made 200 and I sold it like an idiot!


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## quad7 (Jun 16, 2022)

Gibson could not resist the *volute*!



> All NS RADIUS Bass Guitars Have:
> 
> 
> Adjustable string action and intonation
> ...


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## ClownShoes (Jun 17, 2022)

It better have a TransTrem.


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## Robslalaina (Jun 17, 2022)

When is the 8 string multiscale SS fret + trem version coming?


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## StevenC (Jun 17, 2022)

I hope they can get Paul Masvidal as an endorser again.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 17, 2022)

About damn time.


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## narad (Jun 17, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> About damn time.



I've had that song in my head for like an hour so it was weird reading your post while the lyrics were still running loud circles in my head.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 17, 2022)

My attention is had and my curiosity cautiously piqued. 

Not only the originals, but that Transcale they did awhile back was pretty neat too. I do truly hope this is well done.


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## Emperoff (Jun 17, 2022)

I really want them to release a headless Les Paul so I can finally go from a 11lbs guitar to a 10lbs one


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## Mathemagician (Jun 17, 2022)

Incoming lawsuits against all headless guitar makers.


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## Emperoff (Jun 17, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Incoming lawsuits against all headless guitar makers.



Well, one thing is certain. They did it first!


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## brector (Jun 17, 2022)

MFB said:


> Here's to also hoping they figure out a way for their guitars to not need the double-ball end strings that come in all of like, 2 gauges; I think we can all see the writing on the wall with any proprietary technologies like that on something as dicey as a Steinberger revival.


I believe the requirement for double ball ended strings ended with the TransTrem 3?


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## MFB (Jun 17, 2022)

brector said:


> I believe the requirement for double ball ended strings ended with the TransTrem 3?



Not sure, I only owned one Steinberger (a GR4) and that model had the R-Trem vs. the TransTrem but still required the double-ball end strings; not sure what was on the Z (or was it ZT?) series used, but maybe they avoided that pitfall.

I'd love to see that model come back too, it was unique for what it was, I think if they smoothed it out it'd be a hit


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## ArtDecade (Jun 17, 2022)

To be fair, I hope they get a trans-trem up and running. Those are amazing!


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## jephjacques (Jun 17, 2022)

Haven't they "resurrected" Steinberger multiple times already? And each time it was just shitty import versions of the original designs?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 17, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Haven't they "resurrected" Steinberger multiple times already? And each time it was just shitty import versions of the original designs?


I don't think they had Ned on board the last few times they've tried it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 17, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Haven't they "resurrected" Steinberger multiple times already? And each time it was just shitty import versions of the original designs?



This seems like the most earnest attempt in a very, very long time. 

Ned doesn't take shit from anyone, and isn't afraid of walking, so it's pretty encouraging it's made it this far with him attached.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jun 17, 2022)

Summer Nights intro at last.


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## ArtDecade (Jun 17, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This seems like the most earnest attempt in a very, very long time.
> 
> Ned doesn't take shit from anyone, and isn't afraid of walking, so it's pretty encouraging it's made it this far with him attached.


Ned is also 75 and is probably thinking about his legacy and finances.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 17, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Ned is also 75 and is probably thinking about his legacy and finances.



Yeah, the same situation as Randall Smith and Mike Soldano.


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## bostjan (Jun 17, 2022)

Maybe if this goes off without a hitch someone can convince Ken Parker to resurrect the brand that bore his surname.

Honestly, I would love a transcale or heck, any sort of real Steinberger with a graphite or composite neck.

But everything like this lately has been a monkey's-paw-wish, in that you get what you asked for, but there's always something included that ruins it. No telling what that'll be this time, but I'm mentally prepared for it this time.


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## Mathemagician (Jun 17, 2022)

It’s gonna be Indonesian with a covered up hipshot headless trem.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 17, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Maybe if this goes off without a hitch someone can convince Ken Parker to resurrect the brand that bore his surname.



This would be fantastic.


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## narad (Jun 17, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, the same situation as Randall Smith and Mike Soldano.



And now we have solid state $250 SLOs.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 17, 2022)

narad said:


> And now we have solid state $250 SLOs.



Can't win 'em all.


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## Vegetta (Jun 17, 2022)

My old Guitar teachers had a steinberger back in the day. Trans trem was neat but the lack of body made it hard to play for me. I couldn't dig into it at all. Sounded pretty awesome through the Galien Kruger amp he used.

I never liked the double ball end strings.


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## bostjan (Jun 17, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> It’s gonna be Indonesian with a covered up hipshot headless trem.



I'm not sure if this is hyperbole, a joke, speculation, or insider information. There might not be any distinction between those four.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 17, 2022)

Vegetta said:


> My old Guitar teachers had a steinberger back in the day. Trans trem was neat but the lack of body made it hard to play for me. I couldn't dig into it at all. Sounded pretty awesome through the Galien Kruger amp he used.
> 
> I never liked the double ball end strings.


Yep, same boat. Tried a Synapse and the body just did not feel right at all. 

On top of the M-series, I hope they eventually revisit this shape. It's pretty underrated.


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## Mathemagician (Jun 17, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I'm not sure if this is hyperbole, a joke, speculation, or insider information. There might not be any distinction between those four.



Yes. 


Jk, I’m mostly here just being a pessimist. I DO hope it actually ends up cool AF, even if it needs to be priced appropriately. I just don’t see Gibson caring about anything that isn’t a LP.


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## technomancer (Jun 17, 2022)

narad said:


> And now we have solid state $250 SLOs.



Which idiots are buying and raving about, so honestly as much as I laugh at them they were a good move. Plus the new SLOs are fantastic.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.

EDIT: I should probably add I'm not saying people are idiots for buying them, but the hype around these that they sound "just like the bigger amps" that has happened around all of the BAD ss heads is laughable.


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## Dayn (Jun 17, 2022)

So this time it's more of a renewal than a resurrection as there'll be new things. I'd like to see what they come out with, even though there's a 0.1% chance of me buying anything. I just thought they were cool and want to see them succeed.

I just wish I had the money 6.5~ years ago when a music store was closing down and I saw a Spirit they were trying to get rid of. Just to have that part of history, at the very least.


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## beerandbeards (Jun 17, 2022)




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## jl-austin (Jun 17, 2022)

does anyone else feel that the Kramer thing isn't really working out for them, so they are going to try to make headless guitars now?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 17, 2022)

jl-austin said:


> does anyone else feel that the Kramer thing isn't really working out for them, so they are going to try to make headless guitars now?


I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually planned as far back as 2019/2020, because IIRC there was talks of reviving Steinberger as far back as then, but I guess they finally ironed out all the kinks for a new model.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 17, 2022)

jl-austin said:


> does anyone else feel that the Kramer thing isn't really working out for them, so they are going to try to make headless guitars now?



From what I've heard, the Kramer imports are doing fairly well at retail. 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually planned as far back as 2019/2020, because IIRC there was talks of reviving Steinberger as far back as then, but I guess they finally ironed out all the kinks for a new model.



They've been at the table off and on for like 30 years now. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it. 

I would recommend tempering expectations, as Ned hasn't exactly been making what this forum would think as a "contemporary headless guitar" in quite some time, so we'll see what happens.


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## Hollowway (Jun 18, 2022)

Is Tosin involved? I'm only interested if this is a collab with Tosin. Bonus points if he's not entirely sure about the design or components.


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## OmegaSlayer (Jun 18, 2022)

Something made with Gibson, so it will be limited and/or overpriced


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## cip 123 (Jun 18, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Maybe if this goes off without a hitch someone can convince Ken Parker to resurrect the brand that bore his surname.
> 
> Honestly, I would love a transcale or heck, any sort of real Steinberger with a graphite or composite neck.
> 
> But everything like this lately has been a monkey's-paw-wish, in that you get what you asked for, but there's always something included that ruins it. No telling what that'll be this time, but I'm mentally prepared for it this time.


The problem with Parker was how convoluted things were which made them overly complex in places and this expensive.

I’m restoring 2 at the moment. The fixed bridge used special screws + inserts to fit. Every other bridge for most companies is basically just screw in. It's those things all across a guitar that make it hard to keep the company financially viable.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 18, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> The problem with Parker was how convoluted things were which made them overly complex in places and this expensive.
> 
> I’m restoring 2 at the moment. The fixed bridge used special screws + inserts to fit. Every other bridge for most companies is basically just screw in. It's those things all across a guitar that make it hard to keep the company financially viable.



The problem is they were a labor of love, and USMusicCorp just didn't have the love.


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## cip 123 (Jun 18, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The problem is they were a labor of love, and USMusicCorp just didn't have the love.


Absolutely, to continue today the way guitar prices have gone and global supply shortages it's hard to think they could come back.




As far as Steinberger goes, it's good they're coming back but there are better more organised companies than Gibson to do it imo. Hope something cool comes out of it though.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Jun 18, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep, same boat. Tried a Synapse and the body just did not feel right at all.
> 
> On top of the M-series, I hope they eventually revisit this shape. It's pretty underrated.



This guitar is one of my favourites ever. Such a lovely instrument to play.


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## bostjan (Jun 18, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> The problem with Parker was how convoluted things were which made them overly complex in places and this expensive.
> 
> I’m restoring 2 at the moment. The fixed bridge used special screws + inserts to fit. Every other bridge for most companies is basically just screw in. It's those things all across a guitar that make it hard to keep the company financially viable.


IDK about "complex," but they reinvented the wheel a lot. The pickups were all special order, because the pick cavities were too shallow because the bodies were too thin. You can't refret them anything like a traditional guitar because the frets are just glued on the surface of the fretboard, because the fretboard was carbon reinforced glass, and if you notched it, it would make it brittle. The bridges were special, the truss rods were special, the electronics cavities were overly cramped, they're impossible to refinish like a traditional guitar, etc. But, to me, everything they did special was done for good reason. 

Think about how everything on a Fender is interchangeable. Well, that's only because Fender's stuff took off and inspired so many other brands. Parker did as well, but they were too far ahead of their time to overlap with the guitars they inspired, so there was no standardization.

Typically, I hate things that don't fit because of nonstandard spec., but sometimes it has to happen to make technological progress. If we hadn't forgiven USB for being a weird connector, we'd have to plug electronics into big old DB9 connectors to charge them.


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## cip 123 (Jun 19, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep, same boat. Tried a Synapse and the body just did not feel right at all.
> 
> On top of the M-series, I hope they eventually revisit this shape. It's pretty underrated.


I forgot how cool that shape was! I'd really like to see that make a return. 





bostjan said:


> IDK about "complex," but they reinvented the wheel a lot. The pickups were all special order, because the pick cavities were too shallow because the bodies were too thin. You can't refret them anything like a traditional guitar because the frets are just glued on the surface of the fretboard, because the fretboard was carbon reinforced glass, and if you notched it, it would make it brittle. The bridges were special, the truss rods were special, the electronics cavities were overly cramped, they're impossible to refinish like a traditional guitar, etc. But, to me, everything they did special was done for good reason.
> 
> Think about how everything on a Fender is interchangeable. Well, that's only because Fender's stuff took off and inspired so many other brands. Parker did as well, but they were too far ahead of their time to overlap with the guitars they inspired, so there was no standardization.
> 
> Typically, I hate things that don't fit because of nonstandard spec., but sometimes it has to happen to make technological progress. If we hadn't forgiven USB for being a weird connector, we'd have to plug electronics into big old DB9 connectors to charge them.


That's exactly why they would fail today though. Like the fretboard. There's still a fretboard under that glass carbon sheet, like an actual radiused bit of wood like every other guitar except they are then adding this glass sheet which needs specially glued with epoxy, and special glue (methacrylate) for the frets and a special jig to glue said frets which inevitably fall off unlike the majority of traditionally fretted instruments. 

The pickup thing, I have one model like that and they use inserts in the pickup cavity which screw in with the screws in the pickup. It can be done with most pickups given that the shape fits without the base plate but it's adding more steps to a process that can still be done traditionally. For example I have a second parker with a traditional pickup cavity with space for the full size baseplate, that's much simpler. The first method is undeniably the Parker look but still complicates things. 

They are absolutely special. The Lamborghini of guitars, but import guitars are 2 sometimes 3 grand these days. Either something would have to compromise to make the production easier and cheaper (which sacrifices what a Parker is) or the price would be make them unattainable for most, import or USA built. None of the stuff they did should be standardised imo. Telecasters go 50 years without frets falling out, Parkers don't. Strat's just need a new spring if you want different trem tension, Parkers need their own special spring. Pickup swaps on any guitar can be done easily, Parkers need the baseplate removed or the ears taken off and the pickup screws combined with an insert in the cavity. 

It can all be done for good reason but they can be over designed too. That devotion to over designed elements is why they weren't financially viable as time went on and wouldn't be today imo. You can reinvent the wheel, but everyone's already got one that works.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 19, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> I forgot how cool that shape was! I'd really like to see that make a return.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Parker was at its best, most interesting, when they were smaller and also less attainable. Nothing wrong with that. 

I rather Parkers be available, but expensive, than dead, or even worse: not really _Parkers. _


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## thraxil (Jun 19, 2022)

None of the Parker criticisms are really *wrong*, but I feel like they're exagerated. I have nine Parkers, five of them more than 20 years old and I've never had a fret fall off of one. There was a notorious bad batch that went out with bad glue after USMC took over that had that problem, but otherwise it's almost always because people try using solvents to clean them. None of the other issues have really bothered me either. Yeah, it would be nice if it were easier to swap different pickups in, but I think it's kind of a special niche of nerds like us in this forum that do that kind of thing very often. And if you're really into that, get a NiteFly, which gets you that nice Parker neck while being as easy to swap pickups in as any Strat or LP.

The only issues I've ever had on any of my Parkers:

* The ribbon connector on one is flakey. That needs to be converted to the newer style point to point wiring. Even Parker eventually recognized that that was a bad idea and switched the electronics in newer models.
* The jack plate on my Mojo Singlecut cracked. It was made of plastic and I'll never understand why they cheaped out on that one part on an otherwise high end instrument. Anyway, it was a standard size though so I just replaced it with a metal one for like $5.
* I often leave them plugged in and come back to find a dead 9V battery. That's a problem with any active pickup guitar though. If I wasn't such a birdbrain it would probably be fine.

And that's it. Otherwise, they pretty much all still look brand new (if you like the natural "relic" look of old guitars, don't get a Parker because they don't do that) and have generally held up far better than other guitars of the same age. They've made it across the ocean spending months in a shipping container and have survived NYC and UK weather, never needed refretting and have survived rough handling that would've broken the headstock off any Les Paul.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 19, 2022)

thraxil said:


> None of the Parker criticisms are really *wrong*, but I feel like they're exagerated. I have nine Parkers, five of them more than 20 years old and I've never had a fret fall off of one. There was a notorious bad batch that went out with bad glue after USMC took over that had that problem, but otherwise it's almost always because people try using solvents to clean them. None of the other issues have really bothered me either. Yeah, it would be nice if it were easier to swap different pickups in, but I think it's kind of a special niche of nerds like us in this forum that do that kind of thing very often. And if you're really into that, get a NiteFly, which gets you that nice Parker neck while being as easy to swap pickups in as any Strat or LP.
> 
> The only issues I've ever had on any of my Parkers:
> 
> ...



Yeah, I know there are some pics and vids out there showing problem Parker frets, and not just on USMC era ones, but I've worked on tons of these things, including some pretty beat early ones, and none had frets falling off. 

I don't think replacing them would be too bad, unless of course they were "knocked" off and the board is damaged.


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## bostjan (Jun 19, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> I forgot how cool that shape was! I'd really like to see that make a return.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no wood in the Fly fretboard.

I don't think the idea of Parker was ever "a guitar in every garage," so I 100% disagree with your assessment. Should Rolex stop making watchrs because not everyone can afford one?!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 19, 2022)

I think the fretboard thing is mostly semantics. The Parker boards were super thin, and glued right to the neck. I've held partially completed Flys, and even fretboards directly from the shop. There is wood under the board, but it's the neck itself. Maybe there are exceptions, but that's how they were built to my knowledge.


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## cip 123 (Jun 19, 2022)

bostjan said:


> There's no wood in the Fly fretboard.
> 
> I don't think the idea of Parker was ever "a guitar in every garage," so I 100% disagree with your assessment. Should Rolex stop making watchrs because not everyone can afford one?!


I have 2 unfinished Parkers from the factory, there is wood. The Composite "board" is as thin as a bit of card. Happy to share pics and stuff, probably in PM's as I don't wanna clog the thread up with another subject.

Rolex aren't reinventing anything. They're still watches, lots of premium parts but they're still watches. My assessment is there are just lots of parts that are over-designed on Parkers which contributes to, as Max pointed out, them being a labour of love. If every piece of a Fly requires specialist equipment, parts, finishing etc it limits how available they can be. If you think how they could be made in an import fashion you'd have to sacrifice what a Parker is somewhere along the line. If you build them in the USA, the price would be high, and we've already seen that show, profits weren't enough. There's a reason they're not built just now.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 19, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> I have 2 Parkers from the factory, there is wood. The Composite "board" is as thin as a bit of card. Happy to share pics and stuff, probably in PM's as I don't wanna clog the thread up with another subject.
> 
> Rolex aren't reinventing anything. They're still watches, lots of premium parts but they're still watches. My assessment is there are just lots of parts that are over-designed on Parkers which contributes to, as Max pointed out, them being a labour of love. If every piece of a Fly requires specialist equipment, parts, finishing etc it limits how available they can be. If you think how they could be made in an import fashion you'd have to sacrifice what a Parker is somewhere along the line. If you build them in the USA, the price would be high, and we've already seen that show, profits weren't enough. There's a reason they're not built just now.



The reason they're not being made now has absolutely nothing to do with the guitars, their sales, etc. 

That's why it's so tragic. They didn't "fail" they were killed off. 

Their parent company's parent company was acquired by an international conglomerate who was only interested in some patents, absolutely nothing to do with musical instruments, and just sort of neglected them to the point of closure.


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## cip 123 (Jun 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The reason they're not being made now has absolutely nothing to do with the guitars, their sales, etc.
> 
> That's why it's so tragic. They didn't "fail" they were killed off.
> 
> Their parent company's parent company was acquired by an international conglomerate who was only interested in some patents, absolutely nothing to do with musical instruments, and just sort of neglected them to the point of closure.


I stand corrected then, I read Ken gave up on profits even before they were sold to US music corp. After USM bought them they expanded with import lines etc and still weren’t making money before they were sold again. 
That was my understanding.


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## tian (Jun 19, 2022)

Wish I hadn't let my Parkers go but at the same I never felt they were good as an "only" guitar and I've never had the budget to keep specialty guitars that expensive hanging around. Never would have guessed they'd triple in price though...


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## josh1 (Jun 20, 2022)

That's cool and all but they never really went away. I bought a new one a few years ago.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 20, 2022)

josh1 said:


> That's cool and all but they never really went away. I bought a new one a few years ago.



What, like a Spirit? 

Steinberger has been sold in mostly name only since like the early 00's and when they killed off the Synapse. 

It would be neat to either see new, original spec'd stuff or even guitars based on more recent examples of Neds work. 

I could see this all being fairly boring reworks of Music Yo era stuff though.


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## GenghisCoyne (Jun 20, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> What, like a Spirit?
> 
> Steinberger has been sold in mostly name only since like the early 00's and when they killed off the Synapse.
> 
> ...


i forgot all about those synapse guitars. ever play one? i cant believe they never come up on this site


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## thraxil (Jun 21, 2022)

GenghisCoyne said:


> i forgot all about those synapse guitars. ever play one? i cant believe they never come up on this site


I have the "Demon" Synapse TransScale model. It's... interesting. Basically a headless baritone Warlock. Really appealing on paper and sounds pretty good if you like the EMG 81/85 sound (there's piezo as well but I never made much use of that). If they'd stuck to just that, I'd *love* it. The weird built-in rolling capo thing is where it gets questionable. I have no use for it and it just kind of gets in the way. Plus it means that there are two sharp edged slots in the side of the neck that are hard to ignore and make the neck just not really feel good to play (otherwise, I think the phenolic board, the decent fret work and the neck profile would be quite nice).

That's pretty much why I've just kept it in storage instead of using it. Someday I might decide to destroy any potential resale value and fill those slots in with something and refinish it. Until them, I'm just kind of sitting on it to see if it ever becomes some kind of valuable collector's item.


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## StevenC (Jun 21, 2022)

I've never understood why Gibson gets such a hard time for their brand management when FMIC is over there doing everything they can to kill Jackson without anyone noticing.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I've never understood why Gibson gets such a hard time for their brand management when FMIC is over there doing everything they can to kill Jackson without anyone noticing.



Jackson? They actually killed SWR. Bastards.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I've never understood why Gibson gets such a hard time for their brand management when FMIC is over there doing everything they can to kill Jackson without anyone noticing.


Or their handling of Hamer.


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## StevenC (Jun 21, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> Or their handling of Hamer.


It's a good thing they only license Gretsch.


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## bostjan (Jun 21, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Jackson? They actually killed SWR. Bastards.


I loved SWR amps and cabs.

But it seems like every brand these days is easily sinkable. Fender and Gibson gobble up any companies who make gear that competes with their stuff and shut them down. I know it's business, and it's just how it goes, but it stinks. But, 20 years ago, it was a different story with the same outcome, where you had all of these little companies pooling together to try to stay afloat, and it only kinda sorta ever worked.

If Gibson released a successful reboot of Steinberger, it'd ultimately just be jockeying around their mainstream production, and that really wouldn't be a good business strategy for them, so I'm 70% sure this is going to end in tears for Steinberger fans, whether it ends up being Gibson's fault or not.

Not sure what the overall strategy is in hyping this up, though...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 21, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I loved SWR amps and cabs.
> 
> But it seems like every brand these days is easily sinkable. Fender and Gibson gobble up any companies who make gear that competes with their stuff and shut them down. I know it's business, and it's just how it goes, but it stinks. But, 20 years ago, it was a different story with the same outcome, where you had all of these little companies pooling together to try to stay afloat, and it only kinda sorta ever worked.
> 
> ...



The big manufacturers don't really gobble up brands as much anymore, holding companies do who then outsource the production with..."mixed" results.

Case in point: USMusicCorp.


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## Loomer (Jun 22, 2022)

MFB said:


> Here's to also hoping they figure out a way for their guitars to not need the double-ball end strings that come in all of like, 2 gauges; I think we can all see the writing on the wall with any proprietary technologies like that on something as dicey as a Steinberger revival.


*laughs in Floyd Rose Speedloader*


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## TheDandy (Dec 9, 2022)

Anyone heard any news about what's happening with this?


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## Andromalia (Dec 9, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Honestly, I would love a transcale or heck, any sort of real Steinberger with a graphite or composite neck.


To be fair, a lot of what made graphite/composite interesting in the 80es has gone away with the evolution of the manufacturing processes. Even my cheapest guitars are stable and pose no real issue. Recent evolutions of the floating trem are pretty decent even at entry level. Sure, a transtrem alows you to use it on chords but that's a pretty narrow use case.
I wouldn't mind a Parker but it's more for the aesthetics than the then-exotic materials.


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## bostjan (Dec 9, 2022)

Andromalia said:


> To be fair, a lot of what made graphite/composite interesting in the 80es has gone away with the evolution of the manufacturing processes. Even my cheapest guitars are stable and pose no real issue. Recent evolutions of the floating trem are pretty decent even at entry level. Sure, a transtrem alows you to use it on chords but that's a pretty narrow use case.
> I wouldn't mind a Parker but it's more for the aesthetics than the then-exotic materials.


 maybe it's the climate in the US vs France, but hard disagree on that first statement.


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## Wiltonauer (Dec 9, 2022)

My friend’s boat-paddle original Transtrem Steinberger is one of the best guitars I’ve ever played. How I wish that were not true. They are ugly as shit and like $5k+ now.


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## Randy (Dec 9, 2022)

Tuning stability definitely still a significant concern. I do think a solid graphite neck is no longer necessary, although I think you still need to go beyond just graphite/titanium under fretboard stabilizers.

The two schools of thought I think are either an endo skeleton (like the ZT3, with a graphite u-channel or Vigier with a carbon fiber laminate between wood splices) or an exoskeleton (like the Parker, with a carbon fiber skin on the back and fretboard on the top encasing a wood form). The solid graphite neck is nice but a level of rigidity beyond what's necessary.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 9, 2022)

I think Vigier is the perfect example of how much composite to use. They're so stable you don't need a truss rod. Just a thin, full thickness strip.


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## cardinal (Dec 9, 2022)

I could never buy a Vigier. The thought of being unable to adjust the truss rod would be a complete no go for me unless the neck was made of something entirely immune to temperature and humidity changes and somehow were molded to account for string tension.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 9, 2022)

cardinal said:


> I could never buy a Vigier. The thought of being unable to adjust the truss rod would be a complete no go for me unless the neck was made of something entirely immune to temperature and humidity changes and somehow were molded to account for string tension.



That's the point, the composite makes the neck immune to changes in temperature and humidity and is engineered to bend just enough to get great relief for 99% of setups.


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## cardinal (Dec 9, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's the point, the composite makes the neck immune to changes in temperature and humidity and is engineered to bend just enough to get great relief for 99% of setups.


I dunno man. Unless they take months to carve the neck to release all the stresses as they shape it down, seems like it would still be too variable. And just moving from 9s to 10s needs a truss rod adjustment IME. Are these necks so stiff they are unaffected by that change in tension?

But I easily could be wrong. I've never seen/played one of these.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 9, 2022)

cardinal said:


> I could never buy a Vigier. The thought of being unable to adjust the truss rod would be a complete no go for me unless the neck was made of something entirely immune to temperature and humidity changes and somehow were molded to account for string tension.


I'm like 99% sure that's the pitch for Vigier's neck. 



> The 90/10™ System​
> Contrary to popular belief, the neck is truly where the tone of your instrument comes from. The 90/10™ system, exclusive to Vigier, consists of a wood neck reinforced with a carbon slab – the ratio between the two is 90% maple and 10% carbon fiber. A normal wood neck is too flexible, resulting in the strings losing energy when played, reducing both the sustain and impact of the note. The 90/10™ system alleviates this problem. Additionally, the carbon prevents the neck from deforming due to climate or a change in string gauge or tuning. Normally, this is why a truss rod is used, but with the 90/10™, there is no need for one.





cardinal said:


> I dunno man. Unless they take months to carve the neck to release all the stresses as they shape it down, seems like it would still be too variable. But I easily could be wrong. I've never seen/played one of these.


I mean Vigier is still around, and never switched back to using truss rods. So uh, I think he's doing something right.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 9, 2022)

cardinal said:


> I dunno man. Unless they take months to carve the neck to release all the stresses as they shape it down, seems like it would still be too variable. And just moving from 9s to 10s needs a truss rod adjustment IME. Are these necks so stiff they are unaffected by that change in tension?
> 
> But I easily could be wrong. I've never seen/played one of these.



It's really an amazing system. I'm cynical as fuck and I can't get over it.

Definitely try it if you can.


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 9, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean Vigier is still around, and never switched back to using truss rods. So uh, I think he's doing something right.


Wait… I thought Patrice retired and they closed up shop?


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 9, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> Wait… I thought Patrice retired and they closed up shop?



They are still operating through to the end of 2023, for now at least. They're closed to custom orders, but are fulfilling all dealer orders made prior to closing. 

I believe the cut-off date was March of this year, but they seem flexible if there's a particular stock model you're looking for.

Obviously this has more to do with Patrice wanting to enjoy retirement than the construction of their necks. 

Patrice has been at this for almost 50 years, some rest is well deserved. Perhaps in the next year an arrangement will be made to continue the brand. We'll see.


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 10, 2022)

^Would be great if they can work out a way to stay in operation and keep Patrice in relaxation.

Reminds me somewhat of when Tom Anderson announced he was scaling back many years ago.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 10, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> ^Would be great if they can work out a way to stay in operation and keep Patrice in relaxation.
> 
> Reminds me somewhat of when Tom Anderson announced he was scaling back many years ago.



It's sort of a meme within the boutique world. A longstanding builder getting up there in age threatens to call it quits and when the orders pour in they start getting cold feet.


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