# Is (new) Rings Of Saturn actually legit?



## Rizzo (Dec 3, 2014)

No flaming \ spamming \ whatever here. I'm serious.
I remember all sorts of head-scratching about ROS playing half speed and-or having guitar pro-like guitars on their albums and stuff like that in the past times.
How did all this thing end up?
I mean, I know how the HAARP Machine story ended up for example, so I'm not willing to give them my attention.

I was searching for new music via the classic "best album of 2014"-type lists, and their latest work was named several times, hence the doubts floating back to my mind.
So, coming back to the opening question: are they legit or just bullshit?
Are they worthy spending time on?


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## Jonathan20022 (Dec 3, 2014)

/Opinions

If you like them more power to you, and if you don't then that's fine too.

I don't know about their recording process but it could very well have been recorded at half speed.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Dec 3, 2014)

Still terrible, and there are places on the new album where I can literally hear Guitar Pro midi patches. Nothing worth listening to.


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## MoshJosh (Dec 3, 2014)

I haven't personally seen them live but a friend went to one of their concerts recently and said they tore it up. So I'm assuming they can play a good deal of the material if not all of it. . . but again I didn't experience this first hand.


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## Rizzo (Dec 3, 2014)

Jonathan20022 said:


> /Opinions
> 
> If you like them more power to you, and if you don't then that's fine too.
> 
> I don't know about their recording process but it could very well have been recorded at half speed.


I'm not stating any opinion, instead I'm just asking for yours.
What I'm saying is that I never atually listened to their works (2 songs at random maybe, you know) and knowing they're still around and going now I'd like to BUT remembering the controversies around them (the only thing i remember well), I'm a little restrained.
That's why I'm asking. I'm just not willing to devote my time to a band that eventually fakes its musicianship.


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## ncfiala (Dec 3, 2014)

Their stuff is so awful it doesn't really even matter.


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## cougarhunter96 (Dec 3, 2014)

Rizzo said:


> I'm not stating any opinion, instead I'm just asking for yours.
> What I'm saying is that I never atually listened to their works (2 songs at random maybe, you know) and knowing they're still around and going now I'd like to BUT remembering the controversies around them (the only thing i remember well), I'm a little restrained.
> That's why I'm asking. I'm just not willing to devote my time to a band that eventually fakes its musicianship.



You can't ''fake'' musicianship, if they wrote this song that no one else wrote then he wrote it, plain as day. If classical founders like Mozart were alive today I'm positive they would use as many tools as they could just like they did back then. Now on the other hand, if they cannot perform the song then yes a lack of respect is understandable, if the people are walking around like royalty after the fact, then yes a loss of respect if fine, but old men that wrote songs over 40 years ago can't perform it the same, there's gonna be performance issues, hell Tosin Abasi one of the prog leaders has several videos of him slopping up his lead parts. people have some unreal expectation of watching robots play, then you bitch when they're staring at their frets more concerned with what you think than having fun, is that fair? Now I went a little off track, my point is, even the Haarp Machine had REALLY cool ideas, and I REFUSE to knock the writer down because he had trouble performing that extremely technical music, that I can't play. What about electronic music? Do you listen to that? There's no way ANY EDM artist can play what they wrote because it's all programmed the way you're accusing HAARP or ROS of programming, that's hypocritical standards of modern musicians.


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## stevexc (Dec 3, 2014)

cougarhunter96 said:


> You can't ''fake'' musicianship, if they wrote this song that no one else wrote then he wrote it, plain as day. If classical founders like Mozart were alive today I'm positive they would use as many tools as they could just like they did back then. Now on the other hand, if they cannot perform the song then yes a lack of respect is understandable, if the people are walking around like royalty after the fact, then yes a loss of respect if fine, but old men that wrote songs over 40 years ago can't perform it the same, there's gonna be performance issues, hell Tosin Abasi one of the prog leaders has several videos of him slopping up his lead parts. people have some unreal expectation of watching robots play, then you bitch when they're staring at their frets more concerned with what you think than having fun, is that fair? Now I went a little off track, my point is, even the Haarp Machine had REALLY cool ideas, and I REFUSE to knock the writer down because he had trouble performing that extremely technical music, that I can't play. What about electronic music? Do you listen to that? There's no way ANY EDM artist can play what they wrote because it's all programmed the way you're accusing HAARP or ROS of programming, that's hypocritical standards of modern musicians.



Great rant, 10/10. It just ignores the fact that the issue wasn't that HAARP couldn't play their own music, but that they PRETENDED that they could. 

You don't see EDM artists pretending that they can "play" their music (as terrible as an analogy as that is - seeing as how they are performing it exactly how they intended to) on guitar when they're really not. There's no misdirection there.

If you write something you can't play, awesome. If you openly use studio magic to record it, that's fine. If you record videos of you playing it at half tempo, increase the speed, and overlay GuitarPro output over it... that's where the issue is.

As far as RoS... I can't say I enjoy them. I can say that, to my ear, their guitar parts sound exactly like GuitarPro tracks. HOWEVER, I haven't seen any strong evidence that it's "fake" and not a stylistic choice, because I've heard other bands from the genre trying for a similar sound (Within The Ruins springs to mind). All I know is that it sounds like midi, and I don't like to listen to guitar that sounds like midi whether it is or not.


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## Eptaceros (Dec 3, 2014)

When I listen to RoS, I don't hear music, I hear hours upon hours of sitting in a studio clicking around with a mouse.


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## Rizzo (Dec 3, 2014)

stevexc said:


> It just ignores the fact that the issue wasn't that HAARP couldn't play their own music, but that they PRETENDED that they could.
> 
> You don't see EDM artists pretending that they can "play" their music (as terrible as an analogy as that is - seeing as how they are performing it exactly how they intended to) on guitar when they're really not. There's no misdirection there.


Pffffft guys I don't want flames here as I'd grow immediatley tired of pointless discussing (as I don't have to prove anything and my thoughts woudn't change things nonetheless), just your opinions.

The point is that, Steve got it. Yes I listen to electronica and that's just the thing. Sure you can't fake composition skills but if you claim you're playing something and then you're not actually doing it when how do you call that?
If you say you're a GUITAR PLAYER then I can't accept you can't play something you wrote (I don't mean "making mistakes" jesus, we're human beings) or that you didn't play it at all. Guitar pro is a double-edged sword for that, as any VST. Just say you're a composer and write electronic music instead, if that's the case.
If you claim to be an awesome drummer and then in reality all you do is programming drums not having ever touched a kit you can't proclaim you're a drummer, just one who's able to think as a drummer and writes stuff. Just admit things and then it's ok to me.

HAARP wasn't actually my cup of tea, but I found the unraveling of things just plain stupid. Just why doing that? Well whatever.

The problem is pretending. And I can't stand pretending in art as in anything else. Hence the request.
Now please let's end this discussion here and just leave your opinion.


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## Rizzo (Dec 3, 2014)

PS
I checked back both ROS and HAARP, I think I'll pass on both


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## Captain Butterscotch (Dec 3, 2014)

This thread again.


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## SandyRavage (Dec 3, 2014)

Having seen them a bunch of times they play every single bit of it live and occasionally .... shit up.

I wouldn't doubt certain parts are recorded half speed and then sped up for clarity and because they are perfectionist but they nail every single riff and lick live.

Some people aren't into it, it's not my first choice but definitely fun to listen to on occasion, and worth the price of admission


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 3, 2014)

Hundreds of modern bands use tons of studio editing, ROS just make it very obvious with the copy/paste every note. Personally I really like how The Haarp Machine record sounds. Its surgically tight an every note rings out clearly. 

The only important thing is you can play it live well enough to put on a good show. And don't lie that your guitar is real and unedited(which most of the bands do and then get really uptight when people call them out on it).


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## xCaptainx (Dec 3, 2014)

I don't care if it's real or not, it's ....ing awful.


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## asher (Dec 3, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The only important thing is you can play it live well enough to put on a good show. And don't lie that your guitar is real and unedited(which most of the bands do and then get really uptight when people call them out on it).



These are the two salient points in this whole debate, I think.


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## InfestedRabite (Dec 3, 2014)

do bands doing this shit play to a backing track of their edited guitars live?


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## The Mirror (Dec 3, 2014)

I read in another thread from some guy who obviously knows some of the modern producing techniques (guess he was a studio guy himself) that there is a way of recording, where every single note is recorded one at a time and then put together in post-production. That way the guitars sound like midi/GP and ROS are actually using that style of production.

I can't confirm that it's true as I just read it, but it sounded legit to me.


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## mikah912 (Dec 3, 2014)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> This thread again.



I know, right?

My intent here is not to come off as a Rings of Saturn fanboy. I'm only mildly familiar with their pre-Lugal Ki En output. That album is pretty cool to me. I made my peace with the heavy post-editing applied to their albums. It's part of their aesthetic just like heavy vocoder usage is part of, say, T-Pain or super-layered reverb-drenched production is part of Devin Townsend's. They all need the assistance of technology in recreating that live.

I'm not concerned with them being able to sound exactly like the record live. That's not the point of live performance. 

I tracked down a recent YouTube drum playthrough by their new drummer of one of the slower, breakdown-y songs off LKE (Natural Selection). Was it a lot sloppier than the (intentionally) unhumanly tight record? Oh yeah. But it was also recognizable from that band, and clearly he was trying to keep up with the backing tracks of his bandmates in his monitors without a click track. I understand they're still working out how to recreate these songs live, so their recent dates have been all older material. But they are out there playing their music live, and that's not "fake".


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## Rizzo (Dec 3, 2014)

Alright guys I see some of you provided both some personal opinions here and some objective info there without flaming.
I know it's "this thread again", but hey sorry for asking for some knowledge. 

Thank you all, I think I got what I was looking for.
The flamers are free to bring the flame now


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## Esp Griffyn (Dec 3, 2014)

Would Lucas Mann fake a guitar performance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKoJ9ywUDu8


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## Lifestalker (Dec 3, 2014)

So obviously photoshopped...


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## Joose (Dec 3, 2014)

My problem with Rings of Saturn is this...

A ....ing awful band took a ....ing awesome name.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 3, 2014)

Lifestalker said:


> So obviously photoshopped...




>a video
>photoshopped
tell me more, mr. videography expert


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## Jonathan20022 (Dec 3, 2014)

Rizzo said:


> I'm not stating any opinion, instead I'm just asking for yours.
> What I'm saying is that I never atually listened to their works (2 songs at random maybe, you know) and knowing they're still around and going now I'd like to BUT remembering the controversies around them (the only thing i remember well), I'm a little restrained.
> That's why I'm asking. I'm just not willing to devote my time to a band that eventually fakes its musicianship.



I didn't mean your opinions 

I meant more like, that's all you're really going to get here. People who dig the band will tell you that they are, and people who hate them or their recording methods will tell you not to waste your time. I saw you already checked them out and it's the same thing with me, just unlistenable for me. If I want to listen to something heavy and hectic I have other outlets.


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## Slunk Dragon (Dec 4, 2014)

Regardless of how heavily edited and manipulated their records might be, when you act like a complete and total c*ck, it just mars whatever playing level you are as a musician.


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## isomorphic (Dec 4, 2014)

Rizzo said:


> *Is (new) Rings Of Saturn actually legit?*



No


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## Joshua (Dec 4, 2014)

This thread was never meant to go anywhere


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## Rizzo (Dec 4, 2014)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I didn't mean your opinions
> 
> I meant more like, that's all you're really going to get here. People who dig the band will tell you that they are, and people who hate them or their recording methods will tell you not to waste your time. I saw you already checked them out and it's the same thing with me, just unlistenable for me. If I want to listen to something heavy and hectic I have other outlets.


Yep sure, just being clear on my request. 
Sorry if I seemed rude or anything.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Dec 4, 2014)

IMO its legit and they can actually play the parts but they HEAVILY edit it(obviously) to give it that un-natural, mechanical and alien feel to it and if they feel that's what they need to do in order to get the sound they are after then more power to them. Music is art and everyone's interpretation of art is different, you wouldn't tell someone not to paint just because its not your preferred medium would you?

I haven't had a chance to catch them live yet but from what iv seen they can definitely play their material. As far as i know they're not playing songs from Lugal Ki En live yet since they haven't had time to practice them together since every member lives in a different state.

That being said i ....ing love RoS and Lugal Ki En is one of my favorite albums of all time. They combine a few of my favorite things, aliens, super heavy riffs, blisteringly fast technical parts and destruction on a galactic scale. There are some parts on the album that do sound like something straight from guitar pro but honestly it doesn't bother me at all but then again i dont really care for the tr00 musicianship attitude that most people seem to have, if its heavy and sounds cool ill listen to it regardless of how its created. RoS threads here always bother me because they usually end up with a bunch of posts saying "lol who cares its garbage anyway"


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## Demiurge (Dec 4, 2014)

The other day, I was listening to satellite radio "metal station" in the car. A song came on that was tech-deathy note salad stuff, and a few minutes in I looked over and saw that it was this band. When early threads about this band came up, there were posts of their music under the advisement, "listen to how _fake_ this sounds!", which would certainly guide the perception; however, in a situation where the band name and reputation weren't immediately provided, the music honestly sounds like half of the over-produced bands that get their knobs polished on a daily basis. A cynical person might suggest that this controversy at-hand is something that sets them apart and is an advantage.

Whether they are "legit" is really only important if you need to have your recorded performances to be as "authentic" and "raw" as possible, but you're probably picking the wrong genre for that anyway. It's kind of like believing that the Transformers movies would have been better if the robots were practical effects and not CGI.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Dec 4, 2014)

I find it odd when people try to justify not liking a band by criticising the way in which they make music. I think this album sounds great, and I like the overall sound (that is clearly a product of extensive production.)

I don't mind that they chose to make their music this way, and they are obviously all good composers (see; drums and solos/gnarly riffs) and accomplished musicians that are capable of writing and performing a very technical album.

 see also numerous live videos

tbh I wouldn't even mind if they couldn't perform their own music, it's still a good album in my opinion.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 4, 2014)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Music is art and everyone's interpretation of art is different, you wouldn't tell someone not to paint just because its not your preferred medium would you?


No, but I would call someone a liar who said they "painted" their PhotoShop collage.


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## Nour Ayasso (Dec 4, 2014)

Music is music. If you don't like their music, then you have nothing to worry about. If you like their music, whether they can play it or not, do yourself a favor and just enjoy it. If something like their snobby attitudes bother you then that's up to you, to purposely _not_ enjoy their music. I don't like anything about Slash, Travis Barker, or anything under the name KISS. I don't like their attitudes, I don't like their musicianship, more importably I don't like their music. But a lot of people seem to love those names. Maybe ignorance really is bliss.


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## Rizzo (Dec 4, 2014)

Ok guys I'm done with the info so I thought I'd just get into the debate as I like having some chats.
As I said already I checked them back (not remembering their stuff but just the debate around it) and I personally don't like their music. Also, seems like ROS guitarist is actually able to play his stuff, but his style wouldn't impress me even if I was 14 again. So if you like it, good for you.
That being said, the subjective\taste\interpretative part is stated for me and I personaly don't care further for the time being. 

As for the debate, in my opinion there are a few incoherent metaphors here and there.

Regarding the performance debate in general, for you who don't care about the legitimacy of someone's performance or the ability to actually execute something, then I personally can't see what art is about for you.
To me art is creation, and if I'm not personally able to create something myself how can I define myself as an artist?
My concern is about "human capital" and skills.

Random examples of my view (not ROS related) other than the ones I gave in one of my first posts here: think of I don't know, Shawn Lane, and take a random guy who claims to be playing at the same levels of speed but it was just a playback on guitar pro, still he admits to be playing that on his guitar even if that's not true.
Would you throw in the garbage all the practice hours, dedication and skills of Shawn by considering both performances at the same level, just because "you don't care if one's actually able" and "technology has to be accepted as a medium"? I certainy would not, I'd draw a line.
Another example, getting the inspiration from the above post; pretend that we had Photoshop back at Michelangelo's time. If someone stated to have painted the Cappella Sistina instead of him, but it was in fact just Photoshopped, would you give him credit?
That's what I'm saying.

Composing is just an abstract skill so you can't have shorcuts for that. But performance is performance...pretending is just stupid and disrespectful.
Aaaand again I'm not talking of electronica here, it doesn't matter at all. Again,I have no problem towards doing things virtually as long as it's admitted, I get upset when someone pretends to be able to do things the can't by using virtualisation as an excuse.


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## hairychris (Dec 4, 2014)

The Mirror said:


> I read in another thread from some guy who obviously knows some of the modern producing techniques (guess he was a studio guy himself) that there is a way of recording, where every single note is recorded one at a time and then put together in post-production. That way the guitars sound like midi/GP and ROS are actually using that style of production.
> 
> I can't confirm that it's true as I just read it, but it sounded legit to me.



Doing this is relatively simple, but *very* time consuming and would sound unnatural as the notes will not have normal decay (unless you finesse each note individually), plus you wouldn't sensibly be able to get legato sounding right as the transitions between notes and the attack for each particular note will be identical.

We pick up on all the minute differences between natural and synthetic things, including sound. The 99% that is right is not the problem, it's the 1% that's different that in this case makes it sound fake. It's similar to computer generated images of faces, etc. The small details really matter...

In a situation where there are less individual components, like a simple rhythm track, it's easier to make the manipulation sound natural as it is simply less time-consuming to do.

Edit: FWIW I don't really give a crap about the "debate" one way or another. However they recorded it I just don't like the music!


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## mikah912 (Dec 4, 2014)

Rizzo said:


> Ok guys I'm done with the info so I thought I'd just get into the debate as I like having some chats.
> As I said already I checked them back (not remembering their stuff but just the debate around it) and I personally don't like their music. Also, seems like ROS guitarist is actually able to play his stuff, but his style wouldn't impress me even if I was 14 again. So if you like it, good for you.
> That being said, the subjective\taste\interpretative part is stated for me and I personaly don't care further for the time being.
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone's saying that Rings of Saturn "aren't able" to perform their music.

It's just a fact that bands that are intricate in the studio either have to adapt live OR perform with a supplementary ensemble r backing tracks to fill in all of the parts.

Take Queen. Queen in the studio often made ridiculously multi-layered music that pushed Freddie Mercury and Brian May to the edge of their abilities. They had to be a completely different beast live. If I recall, the only time they give into using technology as a crutch was having the "middle opera" section of Bohemian Rhapsody play as a recording while they caught their breaths for the end. Otherwise, they often had to handle songs differently. 

Freddie Mercury would let Roger Taylor handle the high notes. Brian May had to condense three and four part harmonies into a single line. Sometimes parts went out the window altogether. Who could argue with the results, tho? They were an amazing live band.

Rings of Saturn will also have to adapt live. They're physically capable of executing those songs, but it won't sound anywhere near as quantized, clean, or otherwordly.


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## spawnofthesith (Dec 4, 2014)

20+ pages of bitching and nerd rage


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## The Omega Cluster (Dec 4, 2014)

I listened to a bunch of Youtube videos to make my mind, but didn't find anything interesting, or at least worth the price of actually buying it. It sounds so uninspired.


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## Rizzo (Dec 4, 2014)

Guys if you want to reply, read first at least 
And the "oh this thread again " replies are so deep and constructive, it's really a pleasure to exchange these argumentations with you guys, you must be really interesting persons in real life.

I don't care of staying here typing on this thread, I just would like to have a little bit of a talk you know. I you don't want to, I'll still manage to sleep tonight


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## Tsunami 3000 (Dec 4, 2014)

They straight put this intro in just for threads like these to spiral out of control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZHIa_b1LJk


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## Blasphemer (Dec 4, 2014)

I think the stance I'm taking is that it sounds very fake. It _obviously_ sounds very fake. But thats also the very sound they were going for. They made their music the way they wanted to make it. I have 0 firsthand experience with their live show and them being able to play their songs and riffs, so I can't comment on that, but as stated, the compositional skills are still there. Granted, it all may be based off the same whole-tone, diminished, and augmented riffs that both they and a million other tech-death bands have done to death, but that doesn't devalue what they've written to the point of the writing being fake. I'd have to see a live show to further make up my mind on how I feel about it. 

All that said, Lucas really seems like a grade A douchenozzle. I'm really just put off of this band by him alone, and his seemingly massive ego and standoffishness.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 4, 2014)

The Mirror said:


> I read in another thread from some guy who obviously knows some of the modern producing techniques (guess he was a studio guy himself) that there is a way of recording, where every single note is recorded one at a time and then put together in post-production. That way the guitars sound like midi/GP and ROS are actually using that style of production.
> 
> I can't confirm that it's true as I just read it, but it sounded legit to me.



Perhaps I am the person you're speaking of? I wrote a quite detailed post about it in the previous thread about Rings of Saturn:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4141534-post141.html



hairychris said:


> Doing this is relatively simple, but *very* time consuming and would sound unnatural as the notes will not have normal decay (unless you finesse each note individually), plus you wouldn't sensibly be able to get legato sounding right as the transitions between notes and the attack for each particular note will be identical.



It is true is that it is _relatively_ simple and _very_ time consuming, but the "would sound unnatural" part is untrue if you do your job right. A guitar track properly recorded with this method will sound unnatural only if you make the notes inhumanly tight, i.e quantize them (the decay problem is nonexistent, fades are really easy to put on and even automatic in most DAWs). Read the post I linked to above. You aren't supposed to record legato note-by-note if you're going that way.


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## Nour Ayasso (Dec 6, 2014)

Rizzo said:


> I personally don't like their music.


Thread's over.

If you really think composing is just "abstract" and that performance is _that_ important, then you're not only misunderstanding music, you're also going to have a difficult time enjoying any music.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Dec 6, 2014)

Every metal musician on a major label is going to be edited to some extent, so I have no problem with the dudes in the band fixing some slop here and there. 

My problem with rings of Saturn was that they outright used guitar pro instead of playing their parts. That's just being lazy and is unacceptable if you are playing in a band. It's insulting.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Dec 6, 2014)

^ and where is your proof of that? everything iv ever seen about that is speculation.


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## edsped (Dec 6, 2014)

I can't wait until not being able to actually play your own recorded and written parts is considered the norm in music.


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## Dayn (Dec 6, 2014)

I like the aesthetic but the band is too note-salad for me. I've listened to a few songs and not a single part has been memorable.

I will say three lines about some attitudes I've seen, however:
> Complains about Rings of Saturn being 'fake'
> Probably uses Superior Drummer 2.0 in own music
> Not realises electronic music predates their birth


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## brutalwizard (Dec 7, 2014)

"Article after article I keep seeing all these "old school metal musicians" bashing the modern scene. They claim all there is to new bands is talk about software, what plug-ins and impulse responses to use for tone, and youtube. They also claim that everything is computerized, impossible to play for most bands, and that we aren't doing enough practicing. I don't care who you are, you can be the pioneers or even the first to invent the genre but I couldn't be more against what you say. Whatever happened to the old mentality of metal? Breaking the rules, seeing where the boundaries are, exploring new territory. If youtube wasn't around many new bands wouldn't exist, many musicians who share the same vision for a project would never meet, information would be harder to access for those aspiring to learn an instrument, become a producer, or learn anything else that would get them involved in the scene. And yes there are bedroom bands that can't play what they record but there's a lot of bands that have the talent to create new exciting music and perform it live. All these old metal bands need to let go of the ways of the past and realize that there's a lot of new kids on the block ready to carry on the torch. There's a ton of respect for those bands that inspired everyone over the years but when they bash what the new generation is trying to achieve and explore then they only sound like the ones before them that talked down their generation. I don't even care if the music I or anyone else create is considered "true metal". If true metal is sticking to a dictated template then .... it, .... metal. 

TL : DR Create what you want, practice the hell out of it and blow people away." -the other gtarist of rings of saturn joel omans


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## Nyx Erebos (Dec 7, 2014)

Dingir was awesome imo :



Love that riff at 0:44.

The last album is just bad though.


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## isomorphic (Dec 7, 2014)

brutalwizard said:


> "Article after article I keep seeing all these "old school metal musicians" bashing the modern scene. They claim all there is to new bands is talk about software, what plug-ins and impulse responses to use for tone, and youtube. They also claim that everything is computerized, impossible to play for most bands, and that we aren't doing enough practicing. I don't care who you are, you can be the pioneers or even the first to invent the genre but I couldn't be more against what you say. Whatever happened to the old mentality of metal? Breaking the rules, seeing where the boundaries are, exploring new territory. If youtube wasn't around many new bands wouldn't exist, many musicians who share the same vision for a project would never meet, information would be harder to access for those aspiring to learn an instrument, become a producer, or learn anything else that would get them involved in the scene. And yes there are bedroom bands that can't play what they record but there's a lot of bands that have the talent to create new exciting music and perform it live. All these old metal bands need to let go of the ways of the past and realize that there's a lot of new kids on the block ready to carry on the torch. There's a ton of respect for those bands that inspired everyone over the years but when they bash what the new generation is trying to achieve and explore then they only sound like the ones before them that talked down their generation.* I don't even care if the music I or anyone else create is considered "true metal". If true metal is sticking to a dictated template then .... it, .... metal. *
> 
> TL : DR Create what you want, practice the hell out of it and blow people away." -the other gtarist of rings of saturn joel omans




Genre: Aliencore/*True Death Metal*

Source: https://www.facebook.com/RingsofSaturnband

More like _Contradictions of Saturn

_edit: I'm fully aware that's probably there to "epic troll LULZ!!!" elitists, but really, trolling them is low hanging fruit.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 7, 2014)

barryenright232 said:


> My problem with rings of Saturn was that they outright used guitar pro instead of playing their parts. That's just being lazy and is unacceptable if you are playing in a band. It's insulting.



You're insulting. You have no idea how wrong you are. Please stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.


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## will_shred (Dec 7, 2014)

I think that Rigs of Saturn really pushes the boundaries of modern metal and I don't really give a shit what anyone else says  Their music is _insane_ and a lot of people find them un-listenable, which is understandable. Though it really bothers be when people try to accuse them of being "Fake" musicians. That shit is unacceptable in my book. They work hard, they've put out 3 solid albums are gathered a pretty sizable fanbase. They are a successful and original band in an extremely oversaturated genre. So can we at least give them that credit?

Plus, I've never actually seen any evidence that their music is anymore heavily edited than most other modern metal. Just killer live performances.


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## redstone (Dec 7, 2014)

Internet kids must learn the guitar before saying this is fake or not.


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## will_shred (Dec 7, 2014)

redstone said:


> Internet kids must learn the guitar before saying this is fake or not.



What do you mean? This is a guitar forum, it's probably safe to say the average poster here is a guitar player.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 7, 2014)

redstone said:


> Internet kids must learn the guitar before saying this is fake or not.


^ I agree with this. This is why I have refrained from commenting on this thread thus far. I feel like everyone is hopping on the hate bandwagon to either: 1.) feel better about themselves as a means of feeding their disorganized attachment mindset, or 2.) feel like they actually "have something to say" that is worthwhile as a means of feeding their anxious attachment mindset.



will_shred said:


> I think that Rings of Saturn really pushes the boundaries of modern metal [...] They work hard, they've put out 3 solid albums are gathered a pretty sizable fanbase. They are a successful and original band in an extremely oversaturated genre. So can we at least give them that credit?


^ I back this. 

Either way, I think this is one thread that is beating a dead horse.

So I am going to take the opportunity to insert a shameless self-plug here. I have a fair Rings of Saturn influence in my playing (at least from what everyone tells me) at times. But at least I can execute my shit perfectly in studio and perfectly live and I don't edit it to hell and back. Of course, my shit isn't as complex. So here is some guitar & drums pre-pro.


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## teamSKDM (Dec 7, 2014)

the thing is about the haarp machine is not every song was recorded at half speed, in their studio video you can see them tracking some very hard guitar parts at full speed, and if you watch thier live videos you can hear their guitars arent faked. while occasionally sloppy like in mumins live solos you can hear by that their performances arent flawless that they dont use fake guitars. I honestly doubt you can find an album that comes out that isnt slightly technical nowadays that doesnt have a few moments that were recorded slowed down. also all that aside, al is a genius composer and ive never heard anyone quite like him. the use of middle eastern instruments is gorgeous.


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## Blasphemer (Dec 8, 2014)

teamSKDM said:


> I honestly doubt you can find an album that comes out that isnt slightly technical nowadays that doesnt have a few moments that were recorded slowed down.



I may be misreading what you're saying, but what I got out of that is that you're saying that all technical albums have some slowed down parts on them. I completely disagree, if thats the case. There are a lot of albums/artists that dont slow down their parts, and just feature ridiculous players kicking ass 












If thats not what you were saying, then nevermind, and everybody enjoy these shreddy videos


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## Rizzo (Dec 8, 2014)

All I see is a bunch of people misunderstanding each other's statements and claiming for consensus.
I personally just wanted to share my views, as we're just human beings on a forum and I think the Internet -if not abused- can be just another way to engage in a long-distance conversation that would be otherwise not feasible.
I'm not going to pretend anything since opinions are opinions! In fact, I just stated that: 1) at the end of the day I don't like ROS music. Nothing much to rant about, just taste. 2) I stated my PERSONAL VIEWS on music and musicianship. Nothing says I won't change them, since minds change. But for the time beings, that's what they are.

Tha being said, peace off guys


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## Darknut (Dec 8, 2014)

2:27


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## Floppystrings (Dec 9, 2014)

I thought about filming my recording process of my tech death album.

It would be mostly for the kick out of proving the drum parts are real. I wouldn't edit drums, I didn't sit there for hours trying to get my foot speed perfect just to copy and past.

I remember seeing Origin and closing my eyes and hearing what came out of the PA system, the song sounded just like the album. (this was years ago with the original lineup).

Rings of Saturn never really seemed to fit to me, its almost like one member is doing everything and doesn't understand musicians mostly listen to this music and can spot fake stuff real quick.


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## guitarfan85 (Dec 9, 2014)

Sorry to sidetrack but can someone tell me what guitar pro is and how is it being used in the case of this band?


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 9, 2014)

Guitar Pro is a tablature/music writing program for guitar. It will export a MIDI file of whatever you program into it with computer-perfect accuracy, that can then be run through a VSTi like Shreddage and several amp sims to achieve an inhumanly accurate performance (with totally fake vibrato). The rumor is that RoS either doesn't bother to record guitar parts by doing the above method, or that they record at a slower tempo and use the computer to speed things up, or that they record each section an individual note at a time and align everything to the computer grid. None of this is confirmed (except by people who use Guitar Pro everyday and can obviously hear the fake vibrato and "down-pick-only" tremolo picked sections).


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 9, 2014)

^ The Guitar Pro rumor is bullshit (I've said why previously), I also use guitar pro very often, but it's very possible to do such vibrato naturally, with a real guitar (or you could record a note and "vibrato it" with a pitch shifter or something like Melodyne). "Individual note at time and align everything to the computer grid" I'd say is the most accurate, you can make "all downpick" tremolo there, too.


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## thrsher (Dec 9, 2014)

well i finally got around to listening to the new record yesterday, and i think it blows. i enjoy the first 2 records but this album just seems pointless and doesn't really feel like a R.O.S. record. the vibe is just completely off compared to earlier material


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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 9, 2014)

cougarhunter96 said:


> You can't ''fake'' musicianship, if they wrote this song that no one else wrote then he wrote it, plain as day. If classical founders like Mozart were alive today I'm positive they would use as many tools as they could just like they did back then. Now on the other hand, if they cannot perform the song then yes a lack of respect is understandable, if the people are walking around like royalty after the fact, then yes a loss of respect if fine, but old men that wrote songs over 40 years ago can't perform it the same, there's gonna be performance issues, hell Tosin Abasi one of the prog leaders has several videos of him slopping up his lead parts. people have some unreal expectation of watching robots play, then you bitch when they're staring at their frets more concerned with what you think than having fun, is that fair? Now I went a little off track, my point is, even the Haarp Machine had REALLY cool ideas, and I REFUSE to knock the writer down because he had trouble performing that extremely technical music, that I can't play. What about electronic music? Do you listen to that? There's no way ANY EDM artist can play what they wrote because it's all programmed the way you're accusing HAARP or ROS of programming, that's hypocritical standards of modern musicians.



I love you.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 9, 2014)

JOEL OMANS HAS JUST STEPPED DOWN FROM THE BAND.


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## BrailleDecibel (Dec 9, 2014)




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## isomorphic (Dec 10, 2014)

Plot twist: He joins The Faceless


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## Darknut (Dec 10, 2014)

isomorphic said:


> Plot twist: He joins The Faceless


 That would be like the opposite of Jeff joining Arch Enemy, lol. Or just like an under-qualified pretty boy Ashton Kutcher joining the cast of the undeservingly popular show 2 and a half men. The death metal scene is turning into a sitcom!


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## guitarfan85 (Dec 10, 2014)

Is it a prerequisite for any tech death metal band to never play in 4/4 time? Like it is universally understand that you must never play in 4/4 time not for one second. I'm not bashing these bands, they are all much more skilled than I am. But sometimes i wish they would have a couple bars here And there in a regular time so I can bang my head for longer than 5 seconds.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 10, 2014)

guitarfan85 said:


> Is it a prerequisite for any tech death metal band to never play in 4/4 time? Like it is universally understand that you must never play in 4/4 time not for one second. I'm not bashing these bands, they are all much more skilled than I am. But sometimes i wish they would have a couple bars here And there in a regular time so I can bang my head for longer than 5 seconds.


>I play in a tech-death band.
>We pretty much only play in 4/4.
>U wot m8?


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## mikah912 (Dec 10, 2014)

guitarfan85 said:


> Is it a prerequisite for any tech death metal band to never play in 4/4 time? Like it is universally understand that you must never play in 4/4 time not for one second. I'm not bashing these bands, they are all much more skilled than I am. But sometimes i wish they would have a couple bars here And there in a regular time so I can bang my head for longer than 5 seconds.



Probably punching waaaaay over my weight here, but isn't a lot of "complex prog-metal" or "tech metal" at least partially in 4/4 or 6/8 (1-2-3 waltz timing) with the drummer keeping that signature with the hi-hats/cymbals/china, but playing a different time signature or syncopation with the kick and the snare?


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## TheHandOfStone (Dec 10, 2014)

Yeah, a lot of tech-death uses 4/4.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Dec 10, 2014)

I always thought some of the melodies were too corny to fake. Like, there are certain riffs on Dingir that are cringe worthy to say the least. It's like mindblowing shred nonsense into some weird metalcore riff. The new album instead takes these melodies and makes them high octave leads. If the vibrato is real (in the example shown above), it sounds extremely lame.

With that said, I stand by the opinion I had about them initially - I have no idea what the hell they're going for, but good god is that vocalist crazy good at his job.

You can't fake those vocals. They are truly, organically, amazing.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 10, 2014)

A lot of it is 4/4, but the note groups are odd and they don't always repeat in even-numbered measure patterns.


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## Darknut (Dec 10, 2014)

GiveUpGuitar said:


> You can't fake those vocals. They are truly, organically, amazing.


Gotta agree with you there. In my time browsing this site I've seen these Rings of Saturn guys pop up every now and then, and I was always very flattered by their low standards of overall musicianship. I normally like to keep thoughts like that to myself, because it reveals a more vindictive side of myself that from time to time can indeed find pleasure from the shortcoming of others.. but in the case of Rings of Saturn..  I really just couldn't help myself! The fact that the "technical standard" of their guitar work has been achieved through an "unnatural" means would ordinarily piss me off, yeah. Especially the fact that the little shit denies up and down that any studio doctoring was used on their old shit, when his previous band mates have come out and said otherwise. But as others in the thread have said before me, the fact that it all sounds like garbage in the end just seems like a funny form of karma to me. And honestly, in a weird and sadistic way, it makes me feel better about myself. 

But back to why I responded, when their new album came out and I saw their little band name pop up on the general music discussion board again, I figured I would check it out to see how they were coming along, expecting a healthy amount of unintentional humor. And yeah, I was totally blown away by the vocals. When I said that their shitty music would make me feel good about myself, the vocalist did not make me feel this way. Actually, it was kinda scary how good he sounded. He is truly great at what he does, even though I don't enjoy his style. I thought to myself "Wow, it seems like these RoS kids up and found a real musician." It is almost enough to enjoy their music, which I still don't, , but I gotta give the vocalist guy credit where his credit is due. Especially in the midst of all the guitar bashing going on.

Now if they just decided to write something other than  I might start to enjoy seeing their name around here!


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## Ataraxia2320 (Dec 11, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> ^ The Guitar Pro rumor is bullshit (I've said why previously), I also use guitar pro very often, but it's very possible to do such vibrato naturally, with a real guitar (or you could record a note and "vibrato it" with a pitch shifter or something like Melodyne). "Individual note at time and align everything to the computer grid" I'd say is the most accurate, you can make "all downpick" tremolo there, too.



Why is this such a touchy subject for you?


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## Housty00 (Dec 11, 2014)

The low notes in this song sound like laser beams. I don't really understand how someone can't think that's awesome. I don't think it's possible to "naturally" get your guitar tone to sound like laser beams, so regardless of their process let em' be. It's their shtick. 

Rings of Saturn.
Laser Beams.
Forever.


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