# 2 Blackmachine B6s available



## Lorcan Ward (Jan 26, 2013)

No children, no bickering

2 B6s available:
blackmachine - Home Page

Swamp Ash Body
Maple Neck
Indian Rosewood Fretboard
Dunlop 6100 jumbo
Bareknuckle Pickups

They will look something like this:











I'd jump on one of these but I already have a guitar with the exact same specs.


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## InfinityAndThree (Jan 26, 2013)

I wonder how much they'll go for.  Didn't they start at £1200? Good on Doug I guess!


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 26, 2013)

These will most likely be a fixed price. Its the higher end ones that are POA.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 26, 2013)

It says POA.


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## kruneh (Jan 26, 2013)

He´s using Hipshot now, or are those just mockups?


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## ikarus (Jan 26, 2013)

InfinityAndThree said:


> I wonder how much they'll go for.  Didn't they start at £1200? Good on Doug I guess!



the last time I asked they were like 2200. I wonder how much they go for now.


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## JPMike (Jan 26, 2013)

I've sent him an email, waiting for his response on the price I guess.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 26, 2013)

The max i would pay for a b6 is 3k. Theyre great but not that great 


That being said, OMG BLACKMACHINE


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## Kurkkuviipale (Jan 26, 2013)

Sent email yesterday, hoping to get answered this time :/


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## Adrian-XI (Jan 26, 2013)

Just asked the missus if she'd be angry if I bought one, she said no. Email sent!


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 26, 2013)

Dammit. I'd email him but I'm sure 20 people that are willing to pay more than me have already.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Jan 26, 2013)

sorry but 20 is nowhere close most likely


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## JPMike (Jan 26, 2013)

Price predictions?


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## Fiction (Jan 26, 2013)

1 trillion dollars!


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## capoeiraesp (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm sure these are great guitars, but honestly, they're pretty bland for my tastes.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Jan 26, 2013)

It's sad since it could be anywhere between 2-5k haha


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## Zado (Jan 26, 2013)

JPMike said:


> Price predictions?


around 7-8k.

And not really dat sexy lookin to me


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## Fiction (Jan 26, 2013)

I think they look magnificent, Swamp ash and a dark fretboard is such a great look.


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## SavM (Jan 26, 2013)

Ahh I'll be waiting for the day a b2 pops up on there!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 26, 2013)

3000 squiggles


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## SkullCrusher (Jan 26, 2013)

£5499


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## capoeiraesp (Jan 26, 2013)

SkullCrusher said:


> £5499



Really?


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 26, 2013)

I hope not. A B7 doesn't cost that much.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 26, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> I hope not. A B7 doesn't cost that much.



Exactly. Plus these arent 100% black people doug doesnt build them by himself.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Jan 26, 2013)

Doug is striving for making more B6s available this year, possibly one or two a month. I hope he will make it!
It would be best, instead of emailing him, to just wait: when they're ready, they are posted on the site and then he hears offers from everyone, that's it 

ps: I think these are Nailbombs, Doug says it's just the perfect B6 pickup, and I agree.


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## ikarus (Jan 26, 2013)

^ do you also know how much they cost?


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Jan 26, 2013)

ikarus said:


> ^ do you also know how much they cost?



nope


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## engage757 (Jan 26, 2013)

these are both spoken for by the way. I got one and another guy got one.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 26, 2013)

^Nice!!


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 26, 2013)

engage757 said:


> these are both spoken for by the way. I got one and another guy got one.



I have a feeling you wouldn't tell but..price? It'd just be nice to know if I should even bother sending an email next time they pop up.


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## TimSE (Jan 26, 2013)




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## drmosh (Jan 26, 2013)

engage757 said:


> these are both spoken for by the way. I got one and another guy got one.



bah, saw the thread too late. Oh well, I'll just get another Vik


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## JPMike (Jan 26, 2013)

What's the deal if those guitars are already spoken for and announce them as "In Progress" at the site? 

Not email him? Why? Cause suddenly he will start making more guitars? And he needs all the time in the world? Well, I read, he isn't making them himself anymore, so I guess he can answer, or even make a template for all these "annoying" people. 

I mean, come on, all the guitars being made are in prio list for some people. I bet about it. Plus, really smart move from Doug to take offers on each guitar he makes, more money for him.

Now that I think about it, I will probably never get a Blackmachine just cause whenever one or two pop in the site, someone has already spoken them for. 

Really, I bet it might be the best guitars in the world, but when there is so much demand of course the prices are gonna get sky rocketed. I would spend that amount if I had the chance for one. 

P.S. No offense to anyone, it's just my opinion.


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## kruneh (Jan 26, 2013)

JPMike said:


> Really, I bet it might be the best guitars in the world, but when there is so much demand of course the prices are gonna get sky rocketed. I would spend that amount if I had the chance for one.



Pretty sure one of them will be for sale in a couple of months...


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## JPMike (Jan 26, 2013)

kruneh said:


> Pretty sure one of them will be for sale in a couple of months...



And by that time, I will have spent my money on something else. Like I did the last month.


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## HRC51 (Jan 26, 2013)

It's good to know Doug is still making guitars. His web site has been slow for a long time.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Jan 26, 2013)

JPMike said:


> What's the deal if those guitars are already spoken for and announce them as "In Progress" at the site?



Not sure if these are the same two guitars, but if they are, they were spoken for engage757 and willdfx since December. I suppose these are others, otherwise it doesn't make much sense to me either.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 26, 2013)

There are several B6s finished and ready for sale this month so just shoot Doug an email about these two in case they haven't been bought.


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## JPMike (Jan 26, 2013)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Not sure if these are the same two guitars, but if they are, they were spoken for engage757 and willdfx since December. I suppose these are others, otherwise it doesn't make much sense to me either.



Oh, Will and Engage are amazing guys, Will is a forum friend of mine and I would be happy for them to get a Blackmachine, but if the ones listed on the website are theirs, then it's just stupid to have them there. Cause, even we can see they are in progress we can't get them.

Well, Doug hasn't replied to me, plus I don't feel like spamming him with emails.

P.S I guess, I'll stick to my pedal collection addiction.


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## SkullCrusher (Jan 26, 2013)

If they're not built by Douglas, they better be built be another black man.

This isn't a Caucasian machine!!!!


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## engage757 (Jan 26, 2013)

Those are the two that are sold. I was sent multiple pics. Two more will be ready soon, but I have one reserved already for a close friend of mine here in FL. Been talking to BM about these for several months now.


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## Adrian-XI (Jan 26, 2013)

It's weird that these are listed on the website as POA; as if anyone who enquires within has a chance of purchasing one, when that is clearly not the case.


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## narad (Jan 26, 2013)

Blackmachine available threads: Never failing to remind you that there's a secret circle and you're not in it.


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## Fiction (Jan 26, 2013)

The illuminati.


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## Watty (Jan 26, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Those are the two that are sold. I was sent multiple pics. Two more will be ready soon, but I have one reserved already for a close friend of mine here in FL. Been talking to BM about these for several months now.



To be completely honest, I don't care if Doug is only going to be building for "the circle" of people he knows and is willing to work with. If you happen to be one, more power to you. It's his business and he can do what he likes with it, to hell with anyone who wants to believe otherwise. 

However, I think he needs to say that up front so that people stop requesting information regarding his instruments. Putting this sort of thing up on his website whilst having "set aside" one for someone already is complete and utter BS. All it would take is a simple statement on the website saying that he's not open to the general public. Period.


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## Hollowway (Jan 26, 2013)

engage757 said:


> these are both spoken for by the way. I got one and another guy got one.



I await the red, black and white bedspread shot!


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## StevenC (Jan 26, 2013)

If there will be B6s available every month, I may have to try and get one at the end of the year.


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## mikernaut (Jan 26, 2013)

Engage757, he proves yet again he is a more serious gear whore then most of us


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## Andromalia (Jan 26, 2013)

Watty said:


> Putting this sort of thing up on his website whilst having "set aside" one for someone already is complete and utter BS.



It's free forum advertising. If he removed his site and stated his guitars aren't available to the general public, his name will be forgotten and he won't be able to pull the prices he's pulling now. A brand needs visibility, especially since with his low output people just won't become aware of his brand by seeing one for real.

This topic is the exact proof his scheme actually works and people are biting on the exclusive thing without having ever touched one.


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## elq (Jan 26, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> I await the red, black and white bedspread shot!






And, I'm sorry, I just had to


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 26, 2013)

lol @ E757 edition


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## engage757 (Jan 27, 2013)

I even laughed my ass off at that! If only life was that easy. 

And yes, I'll get you guys some bedspread shots.  right before I decide wether or not to toss that old bedspread. :/ microfiber are like separating or something, leaving white strength marks. Starting to look fugly. Er.


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## katsumura78 (Jan 27, 2013)

How much will a B6 cost? I want to try and get one but I'd like to know what kind of money is being asked for one. One to two B6's a month I think gives us a decent shot at owning a blackmachine unless these are all spoken for already.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Jan 27, 2013)

engage757 said:


> I even laughed my ass off at that! If only life was that easy.
> 
> And yes, I'll get you guys some bedspread shots.  right before I decide wether or not to toss that old bedspread. :/ microfiber are like separating or something, leaving white strength marks. Starting to look fugly. Er.



That's real velour, baby!


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## Watty (Jan 27, 2013)

engage757 said:


> If only life was that easy.



Some of us know for a fact that it is...


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## Andromalia (Jan 27, 2013)

Watty said:


> Some of us know for a fact that it is...



Please make the dollar lower so my 30% amounts to more in europe, thank you.


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## Watty (Jan 27, 2013)

Uh, what?! Your currency is worth 30% more than ours on a bad day...


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## toiletstand (Jan 27, 2013)

are the future releases going to be the same specs??


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## Andromalia (Jan 27, 2013)

Watty said:


> Uh, what?! Your currency is worth 30% more than ours on a bad day...


Yeah, but I pay my import taxes in euros, so the cheaper the guitars are in euros the more money I can get when (if) I flip them. So please let the dollar crash.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Jan 27, 2013)

toiletstand said:


> are the future releases going to be the same specs??



Yes, but if you noticed there's no more Schaller Hannes, but Hipshot bridges instead.
Afaik this is just due to availability of the Hannes bridge, plus Doug really likes Hipshots with graphtec saddles. I asked him myself if I should replace my B6's bridge with a Hannes, said it's not worth it.


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## Watty (Jan 27, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> Yeah, but I pay my import taxes in euros, so the cheaper the guitars are in euros the more money I can get when (if) I flip them. So please let the dollar crash.



True, but if the dollar crashed, flipping guitars would be the LEAST of your worries.


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## Polythoral (Jan 27, 2013)

Actually would be interested in this if it weren't that there's no way for them not to already be moreorless claimed. xD


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 27, 2013)

Has anyone heard back from Doug? I'm pretty sure these aren't spoken for since he has several B6s near completion.


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## JPMike (Jan 27, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> Has anyone heard back from Doug? I'm pretty sure these aren't spoken for since he has several B6s near completion.



He hasn't responded to my email.


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## alias7 (Jan 27, 2013)

Really guys come on why giving -a god knows- so many thousands of $ for some simple plank-guitar saped swamp ashand not buy a new skervesen or a new mayones?- and they have BKP






s too


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## Polythoral (Jan 27, 2013)

alias7 said:


> Really guys come on why giving -a god knows- so many thousands of $ for some simple plank-guitar saped swamp ashand not buy a new skervesen or a new mayones?- and they have BKP


That's like saying why buy a real Music Man when you can just buy a Sterling and put CL/LF's in it. :x

Sorta, at least.

(let us spend money on what we want to spend money on and gtfo, basically)


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## alias7 (Jan 27, 2013)

skervensens and mayones are exceptionally well made..others can confirm that


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## alias7 (Jan 27, 2013)

the image couldn't  be uploaded...anyway I didn't tell you to gtfo you can buy whatever you want I 'm just saying my opinion


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## WillDfx (Jan 27, 2013)

Mine isn't one if the two listed available on Doug's site. Granted they all look the same, but mine has a pretty neat grain on the ash body. I'm also getting different pickups and wiring mods done, so it's still being worked on.


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## narad (Jan 27, 2013)

Polythoral said:


> That's like saying why buy a real Music Man when you can just buy a Sterling and put CL/LF's in it. :x
> 
> Sorta, at least.



Super bad analogy.  Just really terrible.


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## Polythoral (Jan 27, 2013)

narad said:


> Super bad analogy.  Just really terrible.



The best part is I don't even buy into Blackmachine hype at all, I'm just being a total cock, huehuehue.


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## MythicSquirrel (Jan 27, 2013)

Polythoral said:


> huehuehue.







I have nothing constructive to add to this thread


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## JPMike (Jan 27, 2013)

Some people should learn to construct a sentence so they can actually make sense. Fuck my nationality, really.


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## whosdealin (Jan 27, 2013)

I dont get the hype with these, people paying 5k and up for these guitars lol...what a joke , sorry.  You could get a custom build by someone who would actually answer you emails.


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## Watty (Jan 27, 2013)

In Doug's defense, most other luthiers who'd charge 5k for their work don't get thousands of "can I haz your wurk plz" emails every year.


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## narad (Jan 27, 2013)

whosdealin said:


> I dont get the hype with these, people paying 5k and up for these guitars lol...what a joke , sorry.  You could get a custom build by someone who would actually answer you emails.



Well, from the luthier's side, he's gotta make a living.  When you only output 8 guitars a year, $5-8k per guitar, that is still a very modest income.  Let alone the costs of housing, tools, and materials, etc.  

Why his output is so low for such a simple guitar... that is what I don't understand.  Vik can build a more elaborate guitar in a week.

2 B6s a month is definitely an improvement over 2 B6s a year though.  I only wish he would release a "B6+1".


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## WillDfx (Jan 27, 2013)

narad said:


> I only wish he would release a "B6+1".


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## arkohors (Jan 27, 2013)

Watty said:


> In Doug's defense, most other luthiers who'd charge 5k for their work don't get thousands of "can I haz your wurk plz" emails every year.



Those luthiers can by following a simple formula:

1. Make guitars for a few choice bands/ guitarists that are on the rise 
2. Wait for stellar reviews
3. Let the new quotes requests start rolling.
4. Do some internet research to find the people who are requesting guitars that show histories on forums of buying into hype (i.e. they always buy what the bands referred to above are using) or are complete fan boys...build only guitars for those people
5. Ignore 99.99% of all other quotes.
6. Allow the "exclusive"people to continue the hype til you can charge ridiculous prices
7. Occasionally release the simplest model you offer at exorbitant prices


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 27, 2013)

whosdealin said:


> I dont get the hype with these, people paying 5k and up for these guitars lol...what a joke , sorry.  You could get a custom build by someone who would actually answer you emails.



B6's are not 5k.


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## Miek (Jan 27, 2013)

narad said:


> Well, from the luthier's side, he's gotta make a living.  When you only output 8 guitars a year, $5-8k per guitar, that is still a very modest income.  Let alone the costs of housing, tools, and materials, etc.
> 
> Why his output is so low for such a simple guitar... that is what I don't understand.  Vik can build a more elaborate guitar in a week.
> 
> 2 B6s a month is definitely an improvement over 2 B6s a year though.  I only wish he would release a "B6+1".



I've never talked to Doug, and I've never talked about Blackmachines in detail with anyone who does know him, but I've got the impression that Blackmachine is more of a personal passion that he takes at his own pace than a business endeavor. I don't think he expected them to become as insanely sought after as they are.

For what it's worth, a good ol B2 has been my dream guitar since like 2005/2006, when I first saw them, so take my thoughts on them as you will. I usually don't even post in Blackmachine threads because I feel like such a hipster tool for wanting one before Bulb had any.

I miss 2007 sometimes


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## ikarus (Jan 28, 2013)

So what about the rumors he does not build the b6 models himself? Does he or does he not? If not who builds them?

If he does not build them by himself it would make the whole thing even more ridiciulous.


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## cronux (Jan 28, 2013)

the last time i said something about pricing on a guitar i got banned for 2 weeks... 

so this time I'm just gonna say:

£5499?


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## Polythoral (Jan 28, 2013)

ITT: people who don't understand the pricing of B6s


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## narad (Jan 28, 2013)

cronux said:


> the last time i said something about pricing on a guitar i got banned for 2 weeks...
> 
> so this time I'm just gonna say:
> 
> £5499?



Pssst. You're referencing a number some guy guessed, and then scoffing at it. Quoting fake numbers just obfuscates the already mucky issue of how much Doug's actually asking for these days.


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## drmosh (Jan 28, 2013)

Polythoral said:


> ITT: people who don't understand the pricing of B6s



Nor do they understand supply and demand, or even capitalism.


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## cronux (Jan 28, 2013)

narad said:


> Pssst. You're referencing a number some guy guessed, and then scoffing at it. Quoting fake numbers just obfuscates the already mucky issue of how much Doug's actually asking for these days.



ups, did not know that


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## -Berserker_ (Jan 28, 2013)

For you BlackMachine hoe's out there wondering about the price/value, this might help give you an idea, i assume this is one of the the models built by Doug himself:

B2 BlackMachine in London | Guitars, Guitar Amplifiers for Sale | Gumtree.com

If you're clever with your specs a certain Texan luthier can build you an instrument very similar and more beautiful of the one pictured brand new for a fraction of the price of the second hand instrument in the link. I think people forget that its about the music ultimately and not about the gear you carry.

If i ever come across the opportunity to own out a BlackMachine i will consider it as long as the price is reasonable, as of now, I am not buying the hype sorrounding these guitars. Aesthetically pleasing for sure... but still, far too expensive in my opinion.


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## Polythoral (Jan 28, 2013)

-Berserker_ said:


> For you BlackMachine hoe's out there wondering about the price/value, this might help give you an idea, i assume this is one of the the models built by Doug himself:
> 
> B2 BlackMachine in London | Guitars, Guitar Amplifiers for Sale | Gumtree.com
> 
> ...



so, I know it's contradictory to everything you are saying here, but FUCK I WANT THAT NOW THAT YOU'VE SHOWN ME IT. hnnnnnng...

also note, B6s pricing is typically quite below a B2.


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## ManOnTheEdge (Jan 28, 2013)

ikarus said:


> So what about the rumors he does not build the b6 models himself? Does he or does he not? If not who builds them?
> 
> If he does not build them by himself it would make the whole thing even more ridiciulous.


 
From what i understand, Doug is building the B6's, in order to speed things along Jon from Feline Guitars (who has immense luthiery skills) is giving him a hand.


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## -Berserker_ (Jan 28, 2013)

Polythoral said:


> so, I know it's contradictory to everything you are saying here, but FUCK I WANT THAT NOW THAT YOU'VE SHOWN ME IT. hnnnnnng...
> 
> also note, B6s pricing is typically quite below a B2.


 
hahaha no i understand how you feel, i'd like one too don't get me wrong, but i refuse to pay more than £1000 pounds for an instrument. everything i own i have bought second hand, i paid £70 for a 1976 mk2 50 watt JMP head and cab 6 years ago... i had it valued at £800 a few weeks back, i seem to have a nack at getting things for very cheap. Same thing happened with a JCM900 and a Laney AOR 100w combo...got them both for £250, the Laney alone (which i am keeping) was valued at £700 along with the JCM900 at £375. But anyway, if BlackMachine start to make more instruments regularly at a more accessible price i will probably give in and purchase one, there's no denying they are sexy instruments but i literally cannot find a reason to part with several thousand pounds to buy one when there are many guitars which will do the same things for much less money. That is my only quarrel with BlackMachine which is strange as i am very fussy.


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 28, 2013)

-Berserker_ said:


> If you're clever with your specs a certain Texan luthier can build you an instrument very similar and more beautiful of the one pictured brand new for a fraction of the price of the second hand instrument in the link. I think people forget that its about the music ultimately and not about the gear you carry.



But the thing you're not thinking about is for a lot of people its not just about how similar or beautiful the guitar looks, it's about how it sounds and plays. I love how black machines look but I'm always intrigued by them because of how many talented and experienced players rave on about them even after owning other high end customs. It's a bit more difficult for me to want to spend any amount of money on the Texan company you speak of when I've never played on and only have seen two forum members own them.


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## Maniacal (Jan 28, 2013)

^ Yep

I own a BM and have played many others. They are the best guitars in terms of playability. Worth the price IMO.


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## technomancer (Jan 28, 2013)

JoeyBTL said:


> But the thing you're not thinking about is for a lot of people its not just about how similar or beautiful the guitar looks, it's about how it sounds and plays. I love how black machines look but I'm always intrigued by them because of how many talented and experienced players rave on about them even after owning other high end customs. It's a bit more difficult for me to want to spend any amount of money on the Texan company you speak of when I've never played on and only have seen two forum members own them.



Eh I've talked to people I trust that know high end guitars that have played them that have said they're nice... but no nicer than anything else in the price range they were in before things got insane. I tend to take most of the artists raving about them with a grain of salt as they're the same guys that seem to rave about whatever new guitar they've gotten... then 90% of them vanish never to be seen again 

I do get that they have a pretty unique tonal character due to the construction, but the whole stiff neck thin body bolt on thing is being done by everybody and their brother these days.

I was actually interested back when a nice B2 was between $3 and $4k... now that the B6 has moved into that price range and a B2 is upwards of $5-6k? Fuck that noise 

All IMHO of course, as with most things related to guitar it's all subjective. If somebody picks up a BM and it clicks for them and is worth the price more power to them.


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## narad (Jan 28, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> ^ Yep
> 
> I own a BM and have played many others. They are the best guitars in terms of playability. Worth the price IMO.



^ Owned a BM, A/B'ed it with a Hen-Bev S1 I also owned at the time and the Henman was much better in terms of playability. Tension-free neck design via Dave Bunker. I'm not really critiquing either as an across-the-board, objective assessment, and Blackmachines are still a top pick in terms current want. I just don't like blanket statements. 

The notion that one guy tried 50 top tier guitars and decided blackmachine was his favorite, therefore it would be your favorite if given the same selection, is very flawed.


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## Maniacal (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, it is just my opinion. Unfortunately, I haven't tried every guitar in the world so my point is not valid.


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 28, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Eh I've talked to people I trust that know high end guitars that have played them that have said they're nice... but no nicer than anything else in the price range they were in before things got insane. I tend to take most of the artists raving about them with a grain of salt as they're the same guys that seem to rave about whatever new guitar they've gotten... then 90% of them vanish never to be seen again .



And I also do this as well, on the other side of things. As I said, that's why I stay intrigued. Because really, there aren't many people that have the means to own multiple high end customs so there opinion has some weight. But as I've learned, a lot of people's opinions on the Internet mean jack if they don't know what they are talking about, and mostly doesn't mean jack in the case of guitars because it's mostly subjective. The reason I've never ordered a custom is because they are expensive and I'm picky and I don't have the oppurtunity to play any of them. With a black machine I'd probably only feel comfortable paying $3k for something as simple as a B6 (unrealistic, I know) but that's because it has all the right specs I look for in a guitar and I could easily sell it for the same amount if not more if I didn't click with it.


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## Curt (Jan 28, 2013)

Never really been a fan of the b6's... also, not really a fan of the blackmachine headstock. but I have seen a few B2's that looked nice.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 28, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Well, it is just my opinion. Unfortunately, I haven't tried every guitar in the world so my point is not valid.



Well you've tried and owned some awesome ones like the Vigier in your videos on YouTube so I think your point is pretty valid. To top it off you have some mad chops so if anyone is going to notice how much better X guitar is over Y...its probably the guy that can alt pick FotB at like 240 bpm


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 28, 2013)

narad said:


> I only wish he would release a "B6+1".



Doug said this Schecter CS 7 sounded exactly like a 7 string B6. I'm not sure if he has any plans to make one though. I think that wood combo is perfect for 7 strings.


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2013)

That topic is so 2011.


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## Coop2012 (Jan 28, 2013)

All this hype about Black machines is annoying. I myself would rather have a Skervesen. They're like half the price and you don't have to wait 10 years hoping you'll get one someday. Not to mention Skervesen has awesome build quality IMO!


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2013)

Not to mnntion they look prettier. The guitars on the original post look like they were made from my barn door.


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## SDMFVan (Jan 28, 2013)

5 pages in 2 days...crazy. These Blackmachine threads always fascinate me, because this is still the only forum where I ever see them mentioned. If you google "Blackmachine" SS.org is literally the first hit after their official site and FB page. It would be a pretty remarkable achievement as a businessman if you were able to drive prices the way he did just by marketing to one internet forum.


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## engage757 (Jan 28, 2013)

^It`s all people talking about their opinion of it. 98% have never touched one, which leads to the ALWAYS fun BM price debate, where 300 other unrelated guitars will be compared, mostly by people that have never played either, then 20 guys say they would rather have something else for the money, some else says they could buy 5 guitars of a certain brand and so on and so forth.

It certainly is annoying, but the BM price debate sure does entertain some people.

Aw, hell, it kinda entertains me too in a weird way. Kind of like "Quest for Fire". "why am I wasting my time? aww, fuck, I guess I kinda like it."


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## engage757 (Jan 28, 2013)

Dude, I could buy like a bazillion Squiers and Gios for that price!


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## kruneh (Jan 28, 2013)

engage757 said:


> $8k for an RG with a fucked up Parker headstock? Geez... I would love to put one through it's paces, but $8 grand for what it is seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it?



We´ve all been there, right


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## hairychris (Jan 28, 2013)

B2 player since 2006 here.

I'm in this thread with popcorn.


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## Curt (Jan 28, 2013)

I am sure they are nice guitars, though I haven't ever touched one.

My stance is as such, the aesthetics don't appeal to me. The price, for me, anyway... is not the issue. Nolly's B2 is the exception aesthetically speaking..


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## engage757 (Jan 28, 2013)

kruneh said:


> We´ve all been there, right




Yeah, until you actually hold one and realize that it isn't even close to an RG or a parker headstock.


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## Curt (Jan 28, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Yeah, until you actually hold one and realize that it isn't even close to an RG or a parker headstock.


 My wish is that he would design a 3x3 headstock, as it is the headstock i'm not fond of.
that and make some more B2's.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Jan 28, 2013)

I would love to try one of these guitars if I ever get the chance. I know a guy who builds classical guitars and sells them for around $10,000 a whack. They have a very unique and powerful sound, are made from incredible woods, are constructed with the finest craftsmanship (been to his shop a couple of times - it's like a candy store), etc. When a friend let me play his guitar by this luthier, I just couldn't get along with it. Different strokes, I guess.

Like all gear that has quality, there is a portion of BM craze that is mega-hype. Add to it the sheer number of gear-whoring endorsee-wanna-be folks you see tromping around the forums, and you get lemming behavior for or against it. 

I have no doubt that Doug's Blackmachine guitars are nice instruments that fit the needs of a lot of players. I personally don't care for the aesthetics of them, so I seriously doubt I'd ever sink the money required to buy one. I would rather put my money down on one of those Caparison Angelus, no doubt about it.


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, I own an instrument that is worth between 200K/250K&#8364;. (this is not a typo, hint, it has 4 strings, and is many centuries old, is bigger than a violin and smaller than a cello, and no I don't know how to play it, it's a heirloom). So technically a BM is small fry. 
To an outsider like me who never played one BUT has played a lot of quality guitars, I really don't see what would warrant them being *that* special. They likely have their own tonal proprieties and enough people around here vouch for the workmanship that I believe it is perfect, but... why him ? There are a lot of luthiers doing top notch jobs, and not necessarily cheaper either.
What always repulsed me in BMs is they look unfinished, I visually only like the ebony cap ones.


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## Maniacal (Jan 28, 2013)

250k?! That's a lot of prostitute and cocaine dinners!


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## Sunyata (Jan 28, 2013)

Why couldn't may family have a $250K heirloom?!?!?!?!?! I COULD BUY 3 BLACKMACHINES WITH THAT [email protected]!#@@!!


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## Curt (Jan 28, 2013)

I think the unfinished look is part of the appeal. For me, a dark stain over ash with an oil or matte finish and a dark rosewood board is my favorite look. Just screams "workhorse". same reason I bought my old LP Studio in worn brown.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey, if it weren't a viola it would be around $500 euro. I kid. I kid. Yeah, there was a cello instructor at my school that had a $500,000 USD insurance policy on his bow. It's been handed down from instructor to protege for aeons. Things can get out of control pretty quickly. We also had a Bosendorfer that was crazy expensive. I had a 14' piece recorded on it. Magical.

But yeah, that's the way I kind of see it as well. Why BM Guitars? Because a couple of guys in a couple mostly-unheard-of popular "self-made" bands are really great at making people want to buy shit. Fanboys just start freaking out and buy up all the gear that these guys use. It's like an underground version of a bunch of dudes buying PRS guitars because Santana used them. It's not that it's bad gear, but that it's extremely cool to be in the club.


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## Metaljesus (Jan 28, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> Well, I own an instrument that is worth between 200K/250K. (this is not a typo, hint, it has 4 strings, and is many centuries old, is bigger than a violin and smaller than a cello, and no I don't know how to play it, it's a heirloom). So technically a BM is small fry.
> To an outsider like me who never played one BUT has played a lot of quality guitars, I really don't see what would warrant them being *that* special. They likely have their own tonal proprieties and enough people around here vouch for the workmanship that I believe it is perfect, but... why him ? There are a lot of luthiers doing top notch jobs, and not necessarily cheaper either.
> What always repulsed me in BMs is they look unfinished, I visually only like the ebony cap ones.



This.

There are many luthiers out there, know or unknown who I'm assured can make guitars of the same quality as a blackmachine. They have a lot of hype, but of coarse it's not all hype, he must be doing some thing special, i mean people wouldn't pay this kind of money for a normal guitar. But i just couldn't justify the price for a guitar that i haven't even seen in real life, and I'm sure there is someone out there that can make one of the same caliber, and not have to be invited to the secret club of blackmachine to get one 

And i also only like the ebony capped ones


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 28, 2013)

Speculum Speculorum said:


> Why BM Guitars?



You'll find out one day if you try one. If you don't click with it then I envy you. Unfortunately for me and many others its the perfect guitar and we're prepared to pay insane prices for one. 

I don't get why you need to get so worked up about a luthier's prices. Its his business and he's finally able to churn some profit with the huge demand. I'm not sure if you work and have mortgage/rent/bills to pay but if your boss offered you a choice of 10/hour or 15/hour you can be damn sure you'd take the latter.

There are a ton of other options like Vik, Mayones, Daemoness, Strandberg, Jaden Rose etc that will suit your needs just aswell if not better......or instead you could get this glittery Ibanez for around the same price
Ibanez SV2009SC Electric Guitar | Musician&#39;s Friend


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> You'll find out one day if you try one. If you don't click with it then I envy you. Unfortunately for me and many others its the perfect guitar and we're prepared to pay insane prices for one.



Well, people as it is overly much stated around here don't all like the same guitars. Not saying guitars I don't like aren't good, either, but I dont see a reason why BMs would be for everybody. It has not a floyd rose and is only 25.5 it's not the SSO standard at all to begin with 
To take another popular brand around here and virtually unknown outside fo the internet, Daemoness works seem much more warranting their price for exemple: they look like finished guitars.
I guess it's the barebones factor that has people frowning.

That said, your "glittering Ibanez" derives its value from its finish, it's pretty much a BM antithesis. (And it has Ibanez stock pickups, at 5K ffs )


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## Polythoral (Jan 28, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> Well, people as it is overly much stated around here don't all like the same guitars. Not saying guitars I don't like aren't good, either, but I dont see a reason why BMs would be for everybody. It has not a floyd rose and is only 25.5 it's not the SSO standard at all to begin with
> To take another popular brand around here and virtually unknown outside fo the internet, Daemoness works seem much more warranting their price for exemple: they look like finished guitars.
> I guess it's the barebones factor that has people frowning.
> 
> That said, your "glittering Ibanez" derives its value from its finish, it's pretty much a BM antithesis. (And it has Ibanez stock pickups, at 5K ffs )



But... the cool thing on SSO is to hate floyd roses and demand hardtails. Jeez.

Also, the 'unfinished' aesthetic you speak of >>>>> any quilt top or anything, imo.


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2013)

Yeah, butyou'll burn in Hell while we'll be having private stock PRSes in paradise. Screw the virgins.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh, I'm not hating at all. I believe in free market all the way. Doug can charge whatever he wants. If people buy it, it's their deal and I'm happy for both parties. No butt-hurt here whatsoever. And like I said: I'm sure they're excellent instruments based on what I've heard both aurally and description-wise. I just don't find them aesthetically pleasing, so it's not my immediate thinking to jump on the bandwagon and start screaming like a teenage cheerleader about all the bad things I'd do to greasy men to get one.

A huge portion of gear envy in the forum world is groupthink based on what a few guys who are really popular say. Basically, as another forum member put it, you'd think they "shit gold". I'm not arguing that BM aren't great, but from the way some people talk, you'd think they were binded in the crown of thorns placed on Christ's head and that anybody who ever plays one will immediately be sucked into a Lovecraft-ian abyss of GASing until they have no savings account left. There are people who have in fact played these instruments and didn't find them to be the golden goose of guitar playing. Get over it.

* Oh, and remember that Daemoness guitars could have been the new face of Rihanna's guitars.... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! *


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## StevenC (Jan 28, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> ......or instead you could get this glittery Ibanez for around the same price
> Ibanez SV2009SC Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend



As much as I want a BM, that guitar has been on the list longer, so glittery Ibanez it is!

On a serious note; once you play one you'll understand, and I think talking to Doug about them really makes you appreciate them. 

Of course, there could be some sort of "ZOMGBM!" element to it that puts it that bit above the competition, but quality and playability are definitely there and Doug's B2 was easily the nicest 6 string I've ever played. If I ever find a 6 that plays better I will buy it straight away. I don't plan on buying anymore 6 string electrics.*

*Any statements like this that I make do not include anything that Ola Strandberg builds. Especially Varbergs.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Jan 28, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> You'll find out one day if you try one. If you don't click with it then I envy you. Unfortunately for me and many others its the perfect guitar and we're prepared to pay insane prices for one.


 
Envy me  i think they're great, but I actually prefer a stock Ibanez JEM... 

I've been in the "very nice, but no thanks" club since 2003, when they were a lot cheaper than they are now. The only thing that makes me want one is realistically that I want to "know" what they are like these days, whether the "secret ingredient" was added in 2005 or something. That and I want you guys to think I'm "cool"


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## sakeido (Jan 28, 2013)

see and I thought just the opposite.. when I finally played a blackmachine I thought "damn it's just... a guitar" with nothing special about it whatsoever. It didn't even have that great of a fretjob. It doesn't push the envelope at all but Doug uses a lot of oblique hints and mysterious suggestions that make you think it does. 

Tonally it just sounds like any guitar with bareknuckles in it, except with a very slight amount of extra note definition like the string tension is a bit higher than it actually is or something. Very subtle and not even audible on a lot of setups. 

The only guitars I've ever touched that are noticeably different and better than most other guitars are Parkers, because they actually use newfangled space agey technology with the carbon-glass composite fretboards & stainless steel frets. blackmachines just file in with the rest of the normal wood guitars, right around the upper end of "middle of the pack" and below stuff like Suhrs, Viks, Petruccis...


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## Danukenator (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope Doug releases one or two each month! We need more Blackmachine rage threads. Chris should pass the popcorn.

For even more fun, everyone that is saying X is better than Y because it's cheaper but they have never tried X should take a stroll to the P&CE section. Let's see how long that shit would fly there.


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## JPMike (Jan 28, 2013)

You know what, I will buy one just for the hell of having one and try it. If I don't like it, I simply sell. 

Btw, Andromalia you got a Stradivarius violin,cello? wtf, really?


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## engage757 (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey Tech, can we get an official " Is Blackmachine too expensive thread"?


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## stratjacket (Jan 28, 2013)

This was a good read...haha
They are cool looking guitars and I bet they play like a dream too. I like they are so rare, holds the value well. The blackmachine-ish guitars look cool too. They have everything I look for in a guitar (flat, no archtop, volume knob away from bridge pickup, fixed bridge, ebony boards) and the headstock grew on me too. 

Hype or not, I'd get one if I could. Congrats to those who have em, congrats to the maker. But I bet he has a shitload of pressure holding them to such high standards. Man, a couple bad builds and that whole thing could come crashing down. Probably one reason for building so few.


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## engage757 (Jan 28, 2013)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...kmachine-price-debate-thread.html#post3385052


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 28, 2013)

For some people a Panerai is just as useful as a Timrex, a toyota as useful as a ferrari and a blackmachine is just another guitar.

Different strokes for different folks.


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## Dyingsea (Jan 29, 2013)

My theory on all this is the blackmachine "inner circle" is responsible for Subway sandwiches being 1" too short. Unless you are willing to pull devious deeds such as this, you can't have one.


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## Andromalia (Jan 29, 2013)

JPMike said:


> You know what, I will buy one just for the hell of having one and try it. If I don't like it, I simply sell.
> 
> Btw, Andromalia you got a Stradivarius violin,cello? wtf, really?



It's not a stradivarius, those aren't worth 250K but much more.  
I own a viola by Paolo Antonio Testore, an 18th century luthier from Milan.


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## themike (Jan 29, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> It's not a stradivarius, those aren't worth 250K but much more.
> I own a viola by Paolo Antonio Testore, an 18th century luthier from Milan.


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## HighGain510 (Jan 29, 2013)

th3m1ke said:


>



Straight. Up. Trade.


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## Andromalia (Jan 29, 2013)

th3m1ke said:


>



Make that shares in the Schecter US custom Shop and we can discuss


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## hairychris (Jan 29, 2013)

engage757 said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...kmachine-price-debate-thread.html#post3385052



Locked.

Phail. 

Need to get some troll-boots on.


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## hairychris (Jan 29, 2013)

Speculum Speculorum said:


> A huge portion of gear envy in the forum world is groupthink based on what a few guys who are really popular say. Basically, as another forum member put it, you'd think they "shit gold". I'm not arguing that BM aren't great, but from the way some people talk, you'd think they were binded in the crown of thorns placed on Christ's head and that anybody who ever plays one will immediately be sucked into a Lovecraft-ian abyss of GASing until they have no savings account left. There are people who have in fact played these instruments and didn't find them to be the golden goose of guitar playing. Get over it.



Pretty much. Most of the BS comes from people who've never played one, have no intention of buying one, and who have never been in the market for higher priced guitars. And as people say, a few $k is fuck all compared to any orchestral instrument. Fuck. All.

Is Doug himself actually doing any marketing or pushing the nonsense? Nope. He doesn't advertise anywhere except his site and does the odd music fair with the Diezel folks.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 29, 2013)

hairychris said:


> Pretty much. Most of the BS comes from people who've never played one, have no intention of buying one, and who have never been in the market for higher priced guitars. And as people say, a few $k is fuck all compared to any orchestral instrument. Fuck. All.
> 
> Is Doug himself actually doing any marketing or pushing the nonsense? Nope. He doesn't advertise anywhere except his site and does the odd music fair with the Diezel folks.



I don't really care anymore. My personal opinion on them is that they feel like over glorified RG's, yes I have played them before. And while they are a high end guitar, they're still nothing warranting the price to tag, here's the important part, *to me*.

If you feel like paying and waiting on a Blackmachine, more power to you. But I personally wouldn't, it's not even intentional but sometimes people (not pointing fingers) legitimately make it seem like it's some kind of club that they're a part of when a guitar like this means nothing to 90% of people.

And who gives a shit about those kids who buy anything a famous guitar player buys? Half the people on the Strandberg, Vik, and Daemoness waitlist can't afford and will drop out of the list when their time comes. They're part of the blame, when hype is generated. 

But me as a person, who has played these instruments and many others of comparable and yes I will say, much better quality. I would never justify myself paying that amount on a Blackmachine ever. 

Moving on, this is Doug's passion, it's his territory, and his instruments. Although it didn't click with me, and the fact that I don't share the same passion (nor wallet ) that some of the BM players on this board have. We are in no position to doubt whatever he wants to charge for his guitars.

If he wants to charge 20k for a B2, that's his own problem. And if someone pays this price for it, that's their problem. You can't call either party a fool, because whenever there is a market for something, someone will be willing to pay whatever amount it will be to receive it.

Basically, cut this whole BM Exclusivity club shit, it's pretty underlying and subliminal but it gets on my nerves every time I see it.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 29, 2013)

Kenji20022 said:


> I don't really care anymore. My personal opinion on them is that they feel like over glorified RG's, yes I have played them before.



07-20-2012 - Blackmachines look cool, I've played one and it didn't appeal to me

08-24-2012 - I don't really even know if I'd want to own one, I'm sure they're great instruments but I'd need the opportunity to have one in my hands before making an investment like that. Hopefully one of these days I can head over to NAMM and check one out


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 29, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> 07-20-2012 - Blackmachines look cool, I've played one and it didn't appeal to me
> 
> 08-24-2012 - I don't really even know if I'd want to own one, I'm sure they're great instruments but I'd need the opportunity to have one in my hands before making an investment like that. Hopefully one of these days I can head over to NAMM and check one out



Lol. Just another point when I referenced this feeling of a subliminal "club".

Looking through my history to verify my validity, I played a B6 originally. That second post, I don't believe I was *clear* enough, was about a B2, which I actually haven't played before. 

So yes, I do stand by my latest post being in this thread. Before I really did want to go to NAMM and try a B2 out, and get a general feel for it before investing the amount of money required into one. I'm sure anyone else would. Granted, that's not all I posted, taking a small portion of two posts made by me out of context definitely doesn't seem fair.


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## leonardo7 (Jan 29, 2013)

Just get a fuckin Mayones guys! 

If any of you want a Blackmachine but cant get one then from my experience Id highly recommend Vik, or Jaden Rose for bolt on or KxK for a neck thru Blackmachine type of guitar if you want the next best thing as far as build, feel and playability in ergonomics, weight, thinness of neck, quality, resonance, uniqueness etc. 

One thing that not that many of you seem to know is that Doug does prefer to sell his guitars to the guys whom have been wanting one the longest and whom he feels good about selling them too. I think he feels better about selling them to people whom have actually played one before and whom he feels can actually afford one. He doesn't want to sell to some guy who is going to flip it because he bought it just to try it out and then sell it. He really wants his guitars to be owned by guys who love the guitar and who know this because they have actually played one before.

But dont ever assume that you cant get one. You never know.


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## angus (Jan 29, 2013)

Message deleted because I'm dumb. (Had to do with the viola.)


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## Rook (Jan 29, 2013)

I like a bit of hype, it's fairly cyclical and is good for business if you can read it well.

At the end of the day it's only money. 






...btw my last statement shouldn't imply I'm wealthy, I'm not, I realise I have and have had some pretty nice guitars but it's ALL I've got haha. No drink, no cigarettes, nothing, I invest!


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## JPMike (Jan 29, 2013)

Guitars, Gear, etc> Food, clothes, etc.


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## Tom 1.0 (Jan 29, 2013)

I'll always fondly remember turning down an offer from my parents to get me one back in 05" for just £1200 lol


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## JPMike (Jan 29, 2013)

Tom 1.0 said:


> I'll always fondly remember turning down an offer from my parents to get me one back in 05" for just £1200 lol



I apologize for this but you failed in life, sir.


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## engage757 (Jan 29, 2013)

JPMike said:


> Guitars, Gear, etc> Food, clothes, etc.



I do like clothes though...


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## hairychris (Jan 30, 2013)

engage757 said:


> I do like clothes though...



Um, am currently sitting at my desk at a FTSE 100/NASDAQ listed company in a 10 year old Mastodon shirt and tatty jeans....


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## Tom 1.0 (Jan 30, 2013)

JPMike said:


> I apologize for this but you failed in life, sir.




Not really. 

Played a few and didn't like them. 

I have played them, but well before the hype, hence why I bought a glorified RG a few years later for under half the cost of one. 

Doug is a very cool guy, I just wouldn't pay the going rate for his current guitars.


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## engage757 (Jan 30, 2013)

hairychris said:


> Um, am currently sitting at my desk at a FTSE 100/NASDAQ listed company in a 10 year old Mastodon shirt and tatty jeans....



What does the nameplate at your desk read? 


In all honesty though, I am a clothes whore. I like clothes more than most straight men do. 



Tom 1.0 said:


> Not really.
> 
> Played a few and didn't like them.
> 
> ...




Still would have been a hell of a deal.


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## Tom 1.0 (Jan 30, 2013)

Today yeah, 8 years ago?

Not really. There was hardly any of the hype around them, the only 'famous' player I knew of with one was Pin from Sikth, considering that forums and 'online fame' wasn't a thing back then, BMs weren't worth more than any other very nicely built UK guitar brand. 

I am sure the guitars he is producing are fantastic instruments and offer me one for £1500 and I'd snap your arm off. But that's what they are worth to me, they just aren't my cup of tea. 

I have respect for the guys willing to pay big bucks for them, but they aren't the 59 Bursts of the future.

Also, the old ones aren't selling for big money compared to his new builds. 

The very 'first' Tele he build/sold was up for what? £1800? 

Hopefully not a sign of massive depreciation in say 5-10 years time?


----------



## Oli (Jan 30, 2013)

engage757 said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...kmachine-price-debate-thread.html#post3385052



Haha you never fail to make me laugh.  So does this thread. 

On another note, I'm pretty sure they are amazing guitars. Despite the fact that there's this mega hype around BM and all this crazy non sense price thing, I still want to try one out just for the sake of it. As for the price, I guess a B6 usually runs for 2k £ nowadays (Thanks Francesco for the info). Just let people buy the fuck they want and stop complaining about it, it's not your money, and if they want to spend 100k (which would be utterly stupid) on a guitar, let them f'n do it! It's not your problem, live and let live!

Geez.

. . . 

. . . . . 

. . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . .

Oh no. Look at me. I guess I'm part of this thread now...


----------



## thrsher (Jan 30, 2013)

i will say, having trading a few emails with doug, i can sense his pride, and passion for his work. i emailed him out of curiosity not about current builds for sale though.


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## Watty (Jan 30, 2013)

Here's to wishing that 2k price tag was in USD and not Pounds...


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## engage757 (Jan 30, 2013)

Blackmachine threads. Giving BM owners neg rep by haters for 5 years or so now. 

Pretty much what Oli said though. 

If we bring Hollowbodies/semi-hollowbodies/acoustics or vintage gear into this, every hater would shut up REAL quick. $5-6k is NOTHING for high-end builders in those genres, in fact, it is reasonable when looking at some. And you know what? No one argues, no one gives a shit. Buy what you want, enjoy it. Or don't, it really doesn't matter.

But I have to add this:

And as for the rich boy comment? 365 days a year. if you can manage to save $10 a day, what is that? $3650. You can buy a very nice guitar for that. Take your stupid rich boy comments elsewhere. A guy working in McDonalds can save $10 a day in general I would wager. It isn't about being rich, it's called money management. Get yourself a pickle jar, and put ten bucks a day into it, then buy a nice guitar. You may surprise yourself if you persevere. 

But keep in mind, the more people bitch about it? The more publicity it gives Doug, making the guitars worth more in the long run. So, thanks!


----------



## kamello (Jan 30, 2013)

Tom 1.0 said:


> Not really.
> 
> Played a few and didn't like them.
> 
> ...



hipster


----------



## narad (Jan 31, 2013)

engage757 said:


> If we bring Hollowbodies/semi-hollowbodies/acoustics or vintage gear into this, every hater would shut up REAL quick. $5-6k is NOTHING for high-end builders in those genres, in fact, it is reasonable when looking at some. And you know what? No one argues, no one gives a shit. Buy what you want, enjoy it. Or don't, it really doesn't matter.



To the latter point, true, people take this stuff too seriously.

But to the comparison with hollowbodies/acoustics, clearly that's hardly a fair comparison. There's a lot more work involved in the building of those high-end acoustics than most high-end electrics. I think it's safe to say Doug's work falls in that category, especially the B6, though I'd love to hear that he builds like five guitars for every one that gets sold, and the others just get turned to firewood for not being up to snuff. But it shouldn't surprise anyone that more man-hours => higher cost, and two very different build styles are responsible for producing the blackmachine vs. the somogyi.

As to vintage, that's collector's only. Rare 80s lunchboxes sell for thousands of dollars, but no one's going to argue that it's because they're the best lunchboxes ever (Except for Thundercats, because, c'mon, it probably is). It's a totally tangential market.

Still plenty of solidbody guitars to compare to that sell at $8-12k all day, but I think comparing outside of solidbody electric guitars doesn't lead to any good evidence for suggesting Doug's pricing is reasonable.


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## engage757 (Jan 31, 2013)

narad said:


> To the latter point, true, people take this stuff too seriously.
> 
> But to the comparison with hollowbodies/acoustics, clearly that's hardly a fair comparison. There's a lot more work involved in the building of those high-end acoustics than most high-end electrics. I think it's safe to say Doug's work falls in that category, especially the B6, though I'd love to hear that he builds like five guitars for every one that gets sold, and the others just get turned to firewood for not being up to snuff. But it shouldn't surprise anyone that more man-hours => higher cost, and two very different build styles are responsible for producing the blackmachine vs. the somogyi.
> 
> ...




Doug's guitars are all intricately chambered.  


I just think it is ridiculous to have people constantly argue over what things are and aren't worth. A good hollowbody may not be worth it to most people on this forum, but to others it is. I don't understand why people have to argue about Blackmachine in general on this forum.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jan 31, 2013)

My only logical stance against the high price tag of black machines is, if they're worth the price, why weren't they blown up as the best deal around when they were $2k and much easier to get a hold of?


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## jephjacques (Jan 31, 2013)

Because they didn't have the name recognition they do now.


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## Adam Of Angels (Jan 31, 2013)

jephjacques said:


> Because they didn't have the name recognition they do now.




Name recognition doesn't justify a four-fold price multiplication. If that were true, Fenders would be selling at $3 billion per unit. I think it's an odd instance of Doug taking advantage of some hype at just the right time.


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## JamesM (Jan 31, 2013)

Whoooo careesssss.

Just be happy for the happy new owners.


Congrats Engage.


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## Dommak89 (Jan 31, 2013)

engage757 said:


> But I have to add this:
> 
> And as for the rich boy comment? 365 days a year. if you can manage to save $10 a day, what is that? $3650. You can buy a very nice guitar for that. Take your stupid rich boy comments elsewhere. A guy working in McDonalds can save $10 a day in general I would wager. It isn't about being rich, it's called money management. Get yourself a pickle jar, and put ten bucks a day into it, then buy a nice guitar. You may surprise yourself if you persevere.


While I agree on your opinion "buy whatever the fuck you want" I'll have to admit that this statement and is not really thought through. For people who actually have a real job it might not be a big deal to save $10 a day, although I would rather save that much money (keep in mind it's $300 a month) for apartment stuff or a new car. But I guess there are quite a lot of students on here who couldn't save $10 a day unless they give up food, hot water and rent out their beds. Yes, you could argue, somebody like that shouldn't aim for a Blackmachine. But that wasn't my point anyway. I just wanted to show you that not everybody can save up $10 a day. And I guess for those people (who I still wouldn't consider poor) you might come across as a "rich boy".


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## fellsal88 (Jan 31, 2013)

as the owner of 2 Blackmachine B6's i honestly say they are worth the 3k or even 4k. they are just that good, and reliable guitars. even though they look like a chunk of wood with strings. i dont know what kind of engineering he does to the guitar to make sound soo good, it does sound different from a standard piece of swamp with some BKP's on it.


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## fellsal88 (Jan 31, 2013)

P.S congratulation engage757 welcome to the club.


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## wespaul (Jan 31, 2013)

I didn't even know what a blackmachine was until I came to this forum. I'm confused as to why they're so hyped, even after reading multiple threads and learning the history. Do they really play that much better than a high end ESP or Ibanez?


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## hairychris (Jan 31, 2013)

Dommak89 said:


> While I agree on your opinion "buy whatever the fuck you want" I'll have to admit that this statement and is not really thought through. For people who actually have a real job it might not be a big deal to save $10 a day, although I would rather save that much money (keep in mind it's $300 a month) for apartment stuff or a new car. But I guess there are quite a lot of students on here who couldn't save $10 a day unless they give up food, hot water and rent out their beds. Yes, you could argue, somebody like that shouldn't aim for a Blackmachine. But that wasn't my point anyway. I just wanted to show you that not everybody can save up $10 a day. And I guess for those people (who I still wouldn't consider poor) you might come across as a "rich boy".



Point is, though, that these guitars aren't being built for people who can't save $10 a day. I can't afford a mansion or a Ferrari and so what?

A side note is that I wouldn't pay the going rate for one, but I wouldn't pay that for *any* guitar at the moment - BlackMachine, Thorn, PRS, Artinger, whatever. I've just bought a MIM Telecaster and it kicks ass for a few hundred bucks.


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## hairychris (Jan 31, 2013)

wespaul said:


> I didn't even know what a blackmachine was until I came to this forum. I'm confused as to why they're so hyped, even after reading multiple threads and learning the history. Do they really play that much better than a high end ESP or Ibanez?



If I were you I'd stay well out of this unless you like flame-fests!


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## aawshred (Jan 31, 2013)

I'd really love to get my hands on one of these. Does it really go to whoever sends the first email when they're available?


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## Khoi (Jan 31, 2013)

aawshred said:


> I'd really love to get my hands on one of these. Does it really go to whoever sends the first email when they're available?



No. No one really knows how Doug chooses his customers, but it doesn't seem like the average man can get one simply by e-mailing him and asking for a guitar/build/spot.


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## canuck brian (Jan 31, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Doug's guitars are all intricately chambered.



How do you chamber a guitar without a cap? Drill out the blank horizontally before you actually glue the two pieces together?

I'm guessing you can also tell us the tonal benefits to "intricately" chambering a guitar too as opposed to ..."normal" chambering? Why not just say they're chambered and stop using buzzspeak.


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## Mr Richard (Jan 31, 2013)

I enjoy the headstock shape, but the main deal breaker for me is that every BM I remember seeing is just natural wood, not stain. I mean that's cool and all for a beater guitar, but man if I'm gonna drop that much cash on a guitar I want it to look like the Queen.


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## arcadia fades (Jan 31, 2013)

I always wondered this too^ I get that the point in blackmachines are supposed to be all about the quality of the wood and showing it off and whatever but is there any painted/stained finished ones out there? (just out of curiosity)


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 31, 2013)

Mr Richard said:


> I enjoy the headstock shape, but the main deal breaker for me is that every BM I remember seeing is just natural wood, not stain. I mean that's cool and all for a beater guitar, but man if I'm gonna drop that much cash on a guitar I want it to look like the Queen.



I'm pretty sure how the story goes is that every thing on these guitars and the way they are has been thought out by Doug. Some people say unfinished wood rings differently than finished so I would have to guess theres a reason they are like this.


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## canuck brian (Jan 31, 2013)

Mr Richard said:


> I enjoy the headstock shape, but the main deal breaker for me is that every BM I remember seeing is just natural wood, not stain. I mean that's cool and all for a beater guitar, but man if I'm gonna drop that much cash on a guitar I want it to look like the Queen.



I think Doug oil finishes his guitars - they're definitely not bare wood.

There are definitely arguments on the merits of clear coat finishes against oil finishes and letting the guitar "breathe."

I don't sniff enough cork to really hear the difference.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Jan 31, 2013)

OK, I'll ask because it's taken a while for it to dawn on me, everyone says these things are "overpriced" but just how much are they these days?

Seriously guys, does anyone actually know the "retail" price of a typical B6?


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## Mr Richard (Jan 31, 2013)

canuck brian said:


> I think Doug oil finishes his guitars - they're definitely not bare wood.
> 
> There are definitely arguments on the merits of clear coat finishes against oil finishes and letting the guitar "breathe."
> 
> I don't sniff enough cork to really hear the difference.


 

I didn't say bare wood my man, just natural in apperance, as in wood colored tones. I'm sure it probably is for tone, but honestly I doubt throwing some stain on there and then a light protective finish would mess with the tone in a dramatic fashion, but that's up to the person making em and the person playing em to decide. 

Either way I like the look of them, but not enough to want one.


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## JamesM (Jan 31, 2013)

They still haven't grown old on me, that's amazing.


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## narad (Jan 31, 2013)

Mr Richard said:


> I enjoy the headstock shape, but the main deal breaker for me is that every BM I remember seeing is just natural wood, not stain. I mean that's cool and all for a beater guitar, but man if I'm gonna drop that much cash on a guitar I want it to look like the Queen.



Whatever dued:


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## Jake (Jan 31, 2013)

I love the blackmachine look, I'll probably never get to play one however.

At this time I still prefer this 






to this:






flamesuit on


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## Mr Richard (Jan 31, 2013)

narad said:


> Whatever dued:


 
That is nicer fo sho, I guess I have to be more specfic when I throw the word stain out. I'm talking some more flashy colors, not so much the natural wood like colors. Give me some Aqua or Magenta.


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## Watty (Jan 31, 2013)

717ctsjz said:


> At this time I still prefer this flamesuit on



This man jokes. Jokes HARD.


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## Jake (Jan 31, 2013)

Watty said:


> This man jokes. Jokes HARD.


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## Miek (Jan 31, 2013)

717ctsjz said:


> I love the blackmachine look, I'll probably never get to play one however.
> 
> At this time I still prefer this
> 
> ...



Oh cool I'll send you my 121 and you can send me that b6, thanks


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## engage757 (Jan 31, 2013)

fellsal88 said:


> P.S congratulation engage757 welcome to the club.





canuck brian said:


> How do you chamber a guitar without a cap? Drill out the blank horizontally before you actually glue the two pieces together?
> 
> I'm guessing you can also tell us the tonal benefits to "intricately" chambering a guitar too as opposed to ..."normal" chambering? Why not just say they're chambered and stop using buzzspeak.



All of them except the B6. 

I refuse to justify my vocabulary/terminology to someone that uses the term "buzzspeak" anytime he speaks to me. Any kind of chambering is intricate, unless you just like to cut random holes under the caps of your guitars for no reason.

Do you go after everyone who likes other luthier's guitars, or is it just Blackmachine in general?


I have zero time left for you bro, sorry.


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## Jake (Jan 31, 2013)

don't get me wrong I would love to be able to try one and see what it's all about. Hopefully one day I can.


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## engage757 (Jan 31, 2013)

Dommak89 said:


> While I agree on your opinion "buy whatever the fuck you want" I'll have to admit that this statement and is not really thought through. For people who actually have a real job it might not be a big deal to save $10 a day, although I would rather save that much money (keep in mind it's $300 a month) for apartment stuff or a new car. But I guess there are quite a lot of students on here who couldn't save $10 a day unless they give up food, hot water and rent out their beds. Yes, you could argue, somebody like that shouldn't aim for a Blackmachine. But that wasn't my point anyway. I just wanted to show you that not everybody can save up $10 a day. And I guess for those people (who I still wouldn't consider poor) you might come across as a "rich boy".




I agree, and I do see your point, perhaps I should word it differently. If you think about it though, most people spend money on things that aren't entirely necessary. Maybe like smoking cigarettes, buying a sixer everyday, grabbing a bite to eat out ya know? A couple minor changes can really add up to saving big bucks for major purchases! I definitely should have worded it differently though, you bring up good points. Point well taken!


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## narad (Jan 31, 2013)

717ctsjz said:


> don't get me wrong I would love to be able to try one and see what it's all about. Hopefully one day I can.



If I get my hands on a blackmachine again I'm going to hold shoot-out nights. Stop by, try out my blackmachine, Vik, Strandberg, Daemoness, and Ken Lawrences, figure out what you want, then buy me dinner.


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## engage757 (Jan 31, 2013)

narad said:


> If I get my hands on a blackmachine again I'm going to hold shoot-out nights. Stop by, try out my blackmachine, Vik, Strandberg, Daemoness, and Ken Lawrences, figure out what you want, then buy me dinner.




I did this for awhile, but then everyone got wasted around my babies.


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## JPMike (Jan 31, 2013)

So who will give me his BM??


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