# Books and/or movies where the antagonist wins?



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 21, 2013)

Doesnt have to be the bad guy. And even better, books/movies where antagonist is kind of main focus but remains to be antagonist (Or is this not possible? Too abstract?). Normally protagonist is the main focus and he/she/it wins.
Does this stuff exist? Is it possible?


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## pullingstraws (Feb 21, 2013)

1984 by George Orwell fits your description. It's a pretty good book, you should give it a read. It is really depressing though.


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## JPhoenix19 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ender's Game- kinda.


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## DarkWolfXV (Feb 21, 2013)

pullingstraws said:


> 1984 by George Orwell fits your description. It's a pretty good book, you should give it a read. It is really depressing though.


 
I kinda like depressive stuff. Thanks, ill look into it.


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## Xaios (Feb 22, 2013)

- Se7en
- Memento
- No Country For Old Men

Technically, the main character is always the protagonist, even if they're evil. By that note, the antagonist can be good, but they're the antagonist because they're in conflict with the protagonist.


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## Sunyata (Feb 22, 2013)

Every American war movie that isn't about WWII.


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## alec16 (Feb 22, 2013)

the original I Am Legend, one of my favorites.


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## Rosal76 (Feb 22, 2013)

DarkWolfXV said:


> And even better, books/movies where antagonist is kind of main focus but remains to be antagonist



Psycho. 1960

The Omen. 1976

The Car. 1977


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 23, 2013)

Law Abiding Citizen sorta fits that bill depending on how you look at it.


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## Triple-J (Feb 23, 2013)

I'd suggest The Dark Knight cause even though the Joker goes to jail at the end he achieves his goal of screwing up the lives of just about everyone he comes into contact with and leaves them all in some kind of torment whilst managing to walk away from it all unharmed which makes him the only winner in the film.


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## Rock4ever (Feb 24, 2013)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Doesnt have to be the bad guy. And even better, books/movies where antagonist is kind of main focus but remains to be antagonist (Or is this not possible? Too abstract?). Normally protagonist is the main focus and he/she/it wins.
> Does this stuff exist? Is it possible?



Considering there are no true good guys in it...Payback, especially the bluray version


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## Yo_Wattup (Feb 24, 2013)

Xaios said:


> - Memento.



This. I love this movie.

Not really a movie, but the anime series death note... its unique because neither of the main dudes (opposing each other), are defined as good or evil... its up to the viewer to decide who is right and who is wrong.... also it is not clear who really 'wins' in the end... not if you think a little deeper.


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## The Grief Hole (Feb 24, 2013)

the Talented Mr. Ripley
The Usual Suspects
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - the biggest kick in the teeth.

I like horror films that end on low notes too:
Rosemary's Baby - 'He has his father's eyes'
Evil Dead and most good zombie movies.


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## broj15 (Feb 24, 2013)

The movie A Serious Man (Coen Brothers) kind of fits that. There isn't really an antagonist (unless you consider life constantly shitting on you an antagonist) and the ending is pretty ambiguous, but I still think you might enjoy. I would describe it as being a kid and finally building a sandcastle. You went through a lot to see this sandcastle completed and your happy it's finished, but you still know that high tide is going to come eventually and fuck it all up.


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## troyguitar (Feb 25, 2013)

Empire Strikes Back


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## pink freud (Feb 25, 2013)

A Song of Fire and Ice/Game of Thrones (TV).


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## ElRay (Feb 25, 2013)

Not exactly what you're asking, but I know a number of people that read "Atlas Shrugged" and wonder why Ayn Rand let the "bad guys" win. 

Ray


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## pink freud (Feb 25, 2013)

ElRay said:


> Not exactly what you're asking, but *I know a number of people that read "Atlas Shrugged"* and wonder why Ayn Rand let the "bad guys" win.
> 
> Ray



You should know different people.


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## soliloquy (Feb 25, 2013)

DarkWolfXV said:


> I kinda like depressive stuff. Thanks, ill look into it.



if you do end up reading and watching that movie/book, then you may also enjoy a movie called 'equilibrium'. its a modern take on that story. 1984 was taking place after world war 2. equilibrium is taking place world war 3, and its a similar premise. really well done movie.


X-men: first class fits your bill as well. the good guy becomes the bad guy in the end and wins?


or even Princess mononoke. its my favorite movie of all time, and for good reason too. i love how the movie is talking about good vs evil on a massive scale. however, as you're watching it, you're wondering as to who the good and bad guy is. both sides are equally fucked up, but well plotted as well.


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## Xaios (Feb 25, 2013)

soliloquy said:


> if you do end up reading and watching that movie/book, then you may also enjoy a movie called 'equilibrium'. its a modern take on that story. 1984 was taking place after world war 2. equilibrium is taking place world war 3, and its a similar premise. really well done movie.



I dunno, I enjoyed Equilibrium (action movie fan, guilty as charged), but as far as the conflict between a man versus an all-control regime, it's a pretty black and white story, and doesn't really make you think hard at all. 1984 had far more intellectual muscle.



Spoiler



Besides, Equilibrium ends with the people "casting off the chains," so to speak. Not exactly an ending where the bad guy wins.


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## ilyti (Feb 25, 2013)

Brave New World, The Day of the Triffids.. and depending on your viewpoint on who is the real bad guy, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Feb 26, 2013)

pink freud said:


> A Song of Fire and Ice/Game of Thrones (TV).



I read the first book and part of the second and just got pissed off to the extreme. I quit reading and read the summaries of all of the other books that are currently out and I am happy I didn't finish. There should be a warning at the beginning that reads "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."


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## Xaios (Feb 26, 2013)




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