# What is the weakness(es) of the Mesa Boogie mark V 25?



## TedintheShed (Apr 29, 2016)

I was thinking about trading in my Ironball for one of these and few weeks back, but was kind of talked out of it. Now, I am seeing a ton of these for sale. Not just here, my local Craig's list has a few too. 

I seem to have dodged a bullet, or is it simply GAS taking it's natural cycle after a new piece is introduced? 

Ted


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## TheRileyOBrien (Apr 29, 2016)

The weakness is the 25 part


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## protest (Apr 29, 2016)

Do you mean why are there so many for sale? If so:


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## crg123 (Apr 29, 2016)

^ This.

People upgrading to the JP-2C probably has something to do with it. I've never played the mark V 25 but I've heard nothing but good things about it. I was going to buy it but went with an Axe Fx. No regrets besides my love for switches and knobs that the V 25 would have help satisfy hahaha


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## Alex79 (Apr 29, 2016)

The main weakness is a low lightning resistance.


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## technomancer (Apr 29, 2016)

Main complaints I saw from people:
- Clean and Crunch modes both on channel 1
- No solo boost

That was about it. I had one for a while, killer amps.


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2016)

I think there's some validity in the "25 is the worst part" comment. It took me some time to really bond with the 25, and I think the power section is a part of that. I had gone from a Traynor amp with 6L6s in it, and you can definitely tell the difference. I got really comfortable with my old Traynor amp really quickly when I got it, I can plug into any Recto-style amp and dial something comfortable pretty quick, and my Mark IV was instant mojo from day 1, but the 25 took some time- I dunno if that's the amp or the cab that was at fault though.

When I first got the 25, I had also recently picked up a 4x12 with v30s in it though, and it's what I was playing it through. I got really annoyed because the high end was super fizzy sounding, and I couldn't dial it out. I posted here a few times about it, even bought a 1x12 with a c90 in it to see if the cab was what I didn't like. I had been expecting a "smooth" sound from it, since that's how people describe Marks, but it didn't sound smooth to me. Since then, the 25 has had time to "break in", but so has the cab. I took the 4x12 to a festival-style show and it was shared by a whole bunch of bands- played pretty much constantly, at show volume, for a good 5-6 hours. I suspect that bringing it there may have broken in the speakers, since I don't feel it sounds fizzy any more like it used to. I've heard people say v30s need to be broken in, but I'd never encountered it in person.

It's a good amp though.
The things I don't like about it:
- Clean + crunch on the same channel
- 2c mode is a bit thin sounding to my ears
- Lacks some of the mojo my Mark IV has (power section maybe?)
- Loop is not switchable (is it on the IV)
- Cabclone is not as bad as people say IMO, but it's still not as good as a real mic+cab.

What I DO like about it:
- Mark sounds
- XTREME mode is very usable
- Clean channel is really great 
- It weighs nothing
- It's loud enough for 99.9% of what I've used it for
- Cabclone is convenient for quick idea recording


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## TedintheShed (Apr 29, 2016)

Hmmm...I would think that since the JP-2C is a 60/100 watter, those would not be the reason to the 25 watts are going up for sale, as those two serve different purposes. Been wrong before though...

Good news it seems the used market price is being driven down some what.


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## technomancer (Apr 29, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> Hmmm...I would think that since the JP-2C is a 60/100 watter, those would not be the reason to the 25 watts are going up for sale, as those two serve different purposes. Been wrong before though...
> 
> Good news it seems the used market price is being driven down some what.



Not really, power amp size is mostly irrelevant for low volume playing as long as the amp has a good master volume. 

I've got a 50w and 2 100w heads here and have no issue using any of them at low volume.


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## TedEH (Apr 29, 2016)

^ on a related note, if I might add another negative point for the v25:

The channel volumes can be super touchy, which ironically makes lower volume playing more difficult with the 25 than it is with other amps that have a master volume. Low wattage in this case does not mean quiet. It's plenty loud, just doesn't have the same headroom as a bigger amp once you've cranked it.


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## KailM (Apr 29, 2016)

This is just my experience with low-wattage amps in general:

They can't faithfully reproduce low-end at high volumes. They can get loud, hell yes. But the bottom-end stops increasing after a certain point and you only get more mids and highs (which can start to sound like ass real quick).

Low-end definition requires headroom -- which most often comes in the form of higher wattage. This is why bass amps run at those insane wattages -- low-end takes a lot of "oomph" to reproduce the fundamental tones of the notes.

The same is true of 60-100 watt heads. They can reproduce that low end crisply and cleanly (and will certainly go to volumes far beyond any sort of need). Volume isn't the reason to run a big 100 watt head -- tone is.

I get outstanding tone out of my 60 watt 6505 head at bedroom volumes. And when I want it to "leave no brick upon another", it sounds great doing that too.

--My $.02


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## technomancer (Apr 29, 2016)

TedEH said:


> ^ on a related note, if I might add another negative point for the v25:
> 
> The channel volumes can be super touchy, which ironically makes lower volume playing more difficult with the 25 than it is with other amps that have a master volume. Low wattage in this case does not mean quiet. It's plenty loud, just doesn't have the same headroom as a bigger amp once you've cranked it.



I've seen other people mention that but really had no problem with it on the one I had. It could certainly get loud quickly but I had no problem using the volume controls to set it for reasonable volume.


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## TedintheShed (Apr 30, 2016)

KailM said:


> This is just my experience with low-wattage amps in general:
> 
> They can't faithfully reproduce low-end at high volumes. They can get loud, hell yes. But the bottom-end stops increasing after a certain point and you only get more mids and highs (which can start to sound like ass real quick).
> 
> ...



I know this from experience, as I have 2400 watts on tap for my rig but it is mostly dedicated to headroom- played bass for 30 years (Yes, those 150 watt Rectifier players did not like me when they tried to turn up too much  )

But you forgot one other thing- you have to be able to move air for bass as the wavelength of frequency is much greater than that of most guitars. With that factored in though, it may not be an apt comparison


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## edsped (Apr 30, 2016)

technomancer said:


> I've seen other people mention that but really had no problem with it on the one I had. It could certainly get loud quickly but I had no problem using the volume controls to set it for reasonable volume.



It's REALLY bad on the Crunch setting with the mid boost and gain cranked.


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## protest (Apr 30, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> Hmmm...I would think that since the JP-2C is a 60/100 watter, those would not be the reason to the 25 watts are going up for sale, as those two serve different purposes. Been wrong before though...
> 
> Good news it seems the used market price is being driven down some what.



Definitely makes sense, but the V:25 target market isn't made up of younger guys/kids, like that of the more affordable lunch box heads. For a lot of guys it was another toy, and those kind of guys would go gaga over a IIC+. There's also the V:35 which is better for gigging. Four EL-84's makes a pretty big differences, and it has the solo boost feature.

But to answer your real question the main drawback is definitely the EL84 power section, which is fine for the most part, but once you get up loud the low end likely won't be what you want. Other than that there's not much to say. The clean/crunch being on Ch. 1 is something that could be an issue, and the MV is a little touchy when you run it through a 4x12. But really it's a great little amp.


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## Given To Fly (May 1, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> Good news it seems the used market price is being driven down some what.



Thats not really a good thing at the moment.


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## TedintheShed (May 2, 2016)

I learned a lot from this thread- thanks for the responses all!


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## NinjaRaf (May 2, 2016)

My Mark V 25 is one of the best amps I have ever owned. To me, it had 2, maybe 3, real weaknesses, but its all subjective and dependent on your use.

1. The biggest issue for me was the lack of low end. I fixed this by pairing it with a Fryette Power Station. This really allowed some tweakability, and provided significant depth to the tone that I felt was lacking without the PS.

2. It totally falls apart against a drummer in a metal context. Also remedied by the Power Station, though.

3. No master volume. Again, fixed with the Power Station. Just would be easier to set your volumes and have a master for a practice/live context.

While these are the minor issues that I had with the amp, none are really a huge deal, depending on how you're using the amp. The low end thing was for me, but the PS fixed it completely. This is also the main reason I ended up selling my full size Mark V.

Anyway, wish I still had that MV25 and PS rig. .... was killer.


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## Santuzzo (May 3, 2016)

NinjaRaf said:


> My Mark V 25 is one of the best amps I have ever owned. To me, it had 2, maybe 3, real weaknesses, but its all subjective and dependent on your use.
> 
> 1. The biggest issue for me was the lack of low end. I fixed this by pairing it with a Fryette Power Station. This really allowed some tweakability, and provided significant depth to the tone that I felt was lacking without the PS.
> 
> ...



Very cool info here. 
So you would prefer the Mark V:25 plus PS over the full size Mark V?


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## TedEH (May 3, 2016)

NinjaRaf said:


> 2. It totally falls apart against a drummer in a metal context.



I hear this a lot, but it always worked well for me. I know some bands like to really push their volume during jams, and yeh, it probably won't keep up with a bigger amp if you get into a volume war, but if people are reasonable and you've got good cabs, it can work.


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## Santuzzo (May 3, 2016)

those of you who own/have owned a Mark V:25 : do/did you miss the solo/boost feature that the full-size Mark V has?


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## bnzboy (May 3, 2016)

maybe not a big deal but when I had one the fan was quite loud. Not very loud but loud enough to be noticeable when you are playing alone at night. I found it was ok for me but some might get annoyed.


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## Rock4ever (May 4, 2016)

TedEH said:


> ^ on a related note, if I might add another negative point for the v25:
> 
> The channel volumes can be super touchy, which ironically makes lower volume playing more difficult with the 25 than it is with other amps that have a master volume. Low wattage in this case does not mean quiet. It's plenty loud, just doesn't have the same headroom as a bigger amp once you've cranked it.



This

I didn't own a 25, but this was the issue I had with the MV 35. Without 2 volume controls that had interaction, Channel 2 had 2 settings- off and loud, even with the volume set at 7:30ish and the sound begins to compress very soon after that.

Mesa made a low wattage amp, but I found the original mark v is the better low volume/bedroom amp


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## TedEH (May 4, 2016)

This thread inspired me to take my 25 to jam with the band yesterday. Had no volume problems through the Recto 4x12.  I still like this thing.


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## NinjaRaf (May 5, 2016)

Santuzzo said:


> Very cool info here.
> So you would prefer the Mark V:25 plus PS over the full size Mark V?



Yes, absolutely, 100% preferred the 25&PS rig over the full size Mark V. Easier to dial in and move around, actually had more depth and thump than the 90 watt Mark V power section. Better saturation without having to sacrifice low end.

I liked the full size, but I LOVED the 25&PS...I only traded to the full size because setting up the power station and the amp was sort of a hassle. Regretted that decision after owning and struggling with the full size for 6 months. Ended up selling the 90 watter and going back to 5150s.

As far as the volume...I run a Fender MH cab with Legend V12s in it. But getting that 25 watt el84 power section loud enough to keep up with my drummer (We play metal. He hits hard AF.), the thing would squeal SO much and compress WAY too much at that volume. I'm talking 75% of the way up on the volume knob, and its just falling apart completely...sounding like .... and squealing like a pig. Anyway...volume around 30-40% or so, and adding the power station, and it was seriously nearly perfect. I loved that rig.

I didnt find any issues with it not having the solo feature. But, this was my first Mark V anyway...with the 90 watt, the solo feature was a really nice addition. Plus, that footswitch was incredible, too. Perfect gigging amp for basically any style, I think. Just wish I could get a little more depth out of the low end on it, and maybe a touch more saturation on channel 3.


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## Santuzzo (May 5, 2016)

NinjaRaf said:


> Yes, absolutely, 100% preferred the 25&PS rig over the full size Mark V. Easier to dial in and move around, actually had more depth and thump than the 90 watt Mark V power section. Better saturation without having to sacrifice low end.
> 
> I liked the full size, but I LOVED the 25&PS...I only traded to the full size because setting up the power station and the amp was sort of a hassle. Regretted that decision after owning and struggling with the full size for 6 months. Ended up selling the 90 watter and going back to 5150s.
> 
> ...



thanks for the input! 
Great to hear this.
Probably the 25&PS would still be a better set-up than a MarkV:35 alone....sans the solo boost....


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