# MIDI Loop Sets vs Learning & Triggering



## DickyTripleD (Feb 27, 2019)

So, much younger me had started learning drums before guitar, but I've since stopped entirely, to the point that it would be essentially re-learning if I wanted to start over.

I'm considering either buying MIDI loop packs and hoping something matches what I write riff wise, or buying something alike an Alesis Nitro mesh kit and learning drums to add more versatility to my writing.

My question is; how prohibitive is the second option skill-wise? How long does it take to build up a mild proficiency with edrums, and are loop sets all encompassing enough to be worth it?


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## tedtan (Feb 28, 2019)

The loop kits are cool to jam along with, and if you write something to them that fits the loop, they work well. But, except for "generic" beats like blast bears or skank beats, I wouldn't count on them to fit your songs unless you write tot he loop.

So I say take both approaches for the best of both worlds.

And writing drums to your song isn't all that difficult, you just have to learn to think like a drummer and put in a bit of practice.


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## DickyTripleD (Feb 28, 2019)

tedtan said:


> The loop kits are cool to jam along with, and if you write something to them that fits the loop, they work well. But, except for "generic" beats like blast bears or skank beats, I wouldn't count on them to fit your songs unless you write tot he loop.
> 
> So I say take both approaches for the best of both worlds.
> 
> And writing drums to your song isn't all that difficult, you just have to learn to think like a drummer and put in a bit of practice.



Thanks! I think the "thinking like a drummer" part might be the biggest hurdle. I can always fudge the skill part in editing.


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## sharedEQ (Mar 2, 2019)

DickyTripleD said:


> So, much younger me had started learning drums before guitar, but I've since stopped entirely, to the point that it would be essentially re-learning if I wanted to start over.
> 
> I'm considering either buying MIDI loop packs and hoping something matches what I write riff wise, or buying something alike an Alesis Nitro mesh kit and learning drums to add more versatility to my writing.
> 
> My question is; how prohibitive is the second option skill-wise? How long does it take to build up a mild proficiency with edrums, and are loop sets all encompassing enough to be worth it?



About five years ago I bought a Roland V-drum kit for ~1500 with the intention to learn drumming for my compositions.

Everyone told me it would be too difficult to get going, that if I practiced daily for a couple years I might get the skills to a usable state.

I bought several drum DVDs and practiced religously. On the surface, you can learn the basics really easy, but there is much more to it. I lost interest after about 3 months, gave up an sold the kit in almost new condition.

The reason I gave up is I realized that "jamming with drums" was absolutely not as fun or interesting as guitar, because they weren't making music. While I can play guitar all day, I just got bored with the drums. Its a special person who can stay focused and motivated to keep bashing away on the pads.

That said, I realized that if I have a rhythmic idea, i can just tap it in using the pads on my keyboard, using the principles I learned from basic drumming.

Learning to "finger drum" is probably just as useful a skill as buying a kit. Besides, there are drum recording services that will produce much better results than you ever could.

The V-drum kit sounded great and was alot of fun, but it took up too much space.

IMO, its a bad idea.


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## gnoll (Mar 3, 2019)

tedtan said:


> The loop kits are cool to jam along with, and if you write something to them that fits the loop, they work well. But, except for "generic" beats like blast bears or skank beats, I wouldn't count on them to fit your songs unless you write tot he loop.
> 
> So I say take both approaches for the best of both worlds.
> 
> And writing drums to your song isn't all that difficult, you just have to learn to think like a drummer and put in a bit of practice.



I agree with this!

I would say your two best options are either learn to program drums or learn to play drums. Programming is easier. But if you can play, that will help your programming skills as well, because it'll be easier to think as a drummer. If you find that you like playing drums, going with a kit might not be a bad idea! It's fun to play drums, I think so at least... But like everything, it takes time and practice to be good at it. So if you're just doing it as a means to an end and not really enjoying it, I wouldn't think learning to play the instrument would be worth it.


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## DickyTripleD (Mar 3, 2019)

sharedEQ said:


> About five years ago I bought a Roland V-drum kit for ~1500 with the intention to learn drumming for my compositions.
> 
> Everyone told me it would be too difficult to get going, that if I practiced daily for a couple years I might get the skills to a usable state.
> 
> ...



Did you really want to learn, or was it just for the sake of having it under your belt? It's something I've wanted to learn, but if it's just something that's going to sit there, obviously it's a bad call.



gnoll said:


> I agree with this!
> 
> I would say your two best options are either learn to program drums or learn to play drums. Programming is easier. But if you can play, that will help your programming skills as well, because it'll be easier to think as a drummer. If you find that you like playing drums, going with a kit might not be a bad idea! It's fun to play drums, I think so at least... But like everything, it takes time and practice to be good at it. So if you're just doing it as a means to an end and not really enjoying it, I wouldn't think learning to play the instrument would be worth it.



I've been wanting to for a long time and putting it off for lack of space. Part of me is wondering if there's some value as an outlet of energy I'm not getting from guitar and bass alone.


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## MerlinTKD (Mar 3, 2019)

As a drummer, I'm in favor of everyone learning to play drums  But seriously, if you've got the cash to pick up an e-kit and not kind the potential loss of you decide to sell it, I say go for it! The worst case scenario is you'll discover you don't like *playing* drums, but you'll understand what playing drums is like!

Having said that, I program all the drums for the stuff I write/record  I don't have an e-kit, and it's way faster anyway, so the workflow is smoother. I use midi loops about 75% of the time, as a starting place, then go in and move things around til it's right. It's a huge time-saver. Sometimes, though, I'll just program from scratch... just depends. 

Both options are way better than recording acoustic drums, btw, unless you have access to a pro studio, engineer, and shipping containers of cash; recording acoustic drums is HARD


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## DickyTripleD (Mar 3, 2019)

MerlinTKD said:


> As a drummer, I'm in favor of everyone learning to play drums  But seriously, if you've got the cash to pick up an e-kit and not kind the potential loss of you decide to sell it, I say go for it! The worst case scenario is you'll discover you don't like *playing* drums, but you'll understand what playing drums is like!
> 
> Having said that, I program all the drums for the stuff I write/record  I don't have an e-kit, and it's way faster anyway, so the workflow is smoother. I use midi loops about 75% of the time, as a starting place, then go in and move things around til it's right. It's a huge time-saver. Sometimes, though, I'll just program from scratch... just depends.
> 
> Both options are way better than recording acoustic drums, btw, unless you have access to a pro studio, engineer, and shipping containers of cash; recording acoustic drums is HARD



Yeah, there's no Glenn Fricker apologizing here. Hahah. I agree that it sounds better, but if we're going for a decent effort:reward relationship, it's just not worth it (for most people.)


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## gnoll (Mar 3, 2019)

DickyTripleD said:


> I've been wanting to for a long time and putting it off for lack of space. Part of me is wondering if there's some value as an outlet of energy I'm not getting from guitar and bass alone.



Sounds like you should just go for it!

Personally I find playing drums in a way much more fun than guitar. I think the fun thing about drums is you can kinda play what you want. With guitar, if you're playing a song you'd better play "right" or it's not gonna sound good. With drums, hell, do what you want, go crazy! If you feel like doing a two bar insane fill, do it!! The reason I started playing guitar at all is because I felt a need to write music; if it was just about the playing, I'd probably just have stuck to drums!!


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## DickyTripleD (Mar 3, 2019)

gnoll said:


> Sounds like you should just go for it!
> 
> Personally I find playing drums in a way much more fun than guitar. I think the fun thing about drums is you can kinda play what you want. With guitar, if you're playing a song you'd better play "right" or it's not gonna sound good. With drums, hell, do what you want, go crazy! If you feel like doing a two bar insane fill, do it!! The reason I started playing guitar at all is because I felt a need to write music; if it was just about the playing, I'd probably just have stuck to drums!!



I think the musicality is part of it, but if there's anything I've learned from training, it's that I need an outlet for aggression when I'm injured. I think you may be right!


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## MerlinTKD (Mar 3, 2019)

DickyTripleD said:


> I think the musicality is part of it, but if there's anything I've learned from training, it's that I need an outlet for aggression when I'm injured. I think you may be right!



Yeah... I love playing guitar, and can remember melodic stuff way more reliably, but I just *am* a drummer, I get depressed and irritable if I haven't played drums in a while  I think I enjoy composing more than playing, overall, but if I haven't hit drums for at least 30 minutes in a week, I get grumpy!  Even working out and weightlifting doesn't fill that gap.


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## DickyTripleD (Mar 3, 2019)

MerlinTKD said:


> Yeah... I love playing guitar, and can remember melodic stuff way more reliably, but I just *am* a drummer, I get depressed and irritable if I haven't played drums in a while  I think I enjoy composing more than playing, overall, but if I haven't hit drums for at least 30 minutes in a week, I get grumpy!  Even working out and weightlifting doesn't fill that gap.



Mildly off topic, but have you tried Muay Thai or kickboxing to fill that void?


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## MerlinTKD (Mar 4, 2019)

DickyTripleD said:


> Mildly off topic, but have you tried Muay Thai or kickboxing to fill that void?



 Yeah, I did Tae Kwon Do years ago, which was fun and satisfying, but not music


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## sharedEQ (Mar 5, 2019)

DickyTripleD said:


> Did you really want to learn, or was it just for the sake of having it under your belt? It's something I've wanted to learn, but if it's just something that's going to sit there, obviously it's a bad call.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been wanting to for a long time and putting it off for lack of space. Part of me is wondering if there's some value as an outlet of energy I'm not getting from guitar and bass alone.


I really wanted to learn, always tapping beats...but i couldnt practice for more than abt an hour at a time. Reality was just too boring for me. 

I think the only way to do it is get your skills to where you can play along with most things, then when you are enjoying music you can just be practicing drums. They are incredibly unmusical by themselves.


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