# There is NO substitute for a bass player...



## Scott Fernandez (Oct 2, 2012)

Drawing my line in the sand for my bass brothers and me. There is no substitute for bassist... doesn't matter how low they tune their guitars
d-_-b


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 2, 2012)




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## Bigfan (Oct 2, 2012)

I wouldn't exactly say the point of tuning a guitar low is to emulate a bassist.

An E1 on a guitar is nothing like the E1 on a bass, and vice versa.


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## Hallic (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes there is! The subsitute for a bass player is...



















Another bass player




But that low tuned guitars dont subsitute the bass guitars should be trivial(right?)


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 2, 2012)

What ends up happening with a good portion of, especially younger, low tuned bands is that they disregard the need all together for a bass in the band, due to the depth of their instrument. While it's cool that they can get that low it still just sounds like a really deep guitar, at best. The role of the bassist being to anchor the harmonic ranges, the guitar doesn't do that as well as a bass guitar will.


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## TimSE (Oct 2, 2012)

I enjoy bass tonez as much as I do guitar tonez.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 2, 2012)

TimSE said:


> I enjoy bass tonez as much as I do guitar tonez.



Agreed. It's awesome to have both =)


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## quattro19tdi (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't think anyone really tunes down their guitar because they want it to sound like a bass..


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2012)

quattro19tdi said:


> I don't think anyone really tunes down their guitar because they want it to sound like a bass..


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## quattro19tdi (Oct 2, 2012)

Hmm, there are always exceptions


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## cjbrents (Oct 2, 2012)

If it weren't for the drums and bass, I wouldn't even listen to music or play guitar. You need that drummer there to set the tempo and tell you when to bang your head! You need that bassist to drop them lines so that you understand just how heavy his music really is! You just can't do that with one or two guitars alone.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2012)

quattro19tdi said:


> Hmm, there are always exceptions



I agree with you, though. Who even tries to do that? Trying to make an extended-range guitar sound like a bass would sound like shit. 

But making an ERG sound like... well, a guitar... sounds amazing.


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## Saidincontext (Oct 2, 2012)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




Nail on the head here 
However, Jack White is brilliant Badass guitar player. That's the ONLY thing he used that 7th string for. He also rigged an electric harmonica into his guitar that he could just yank out and start using, off of his guitar electronics through his amp. Yall see that?


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## davisjom (Oct 2, 2012)

quattro19tdi said:


> Hmm, there are always exceptions



Eh, I don't really think so.
Take AAL, even though they don't have a bassist for live music. they still track bass guitar for their recordings. Bassists are needed unless you are a purely solo musicians. But even then bass is still tracked for play back music and albums.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't know how many of you on this thread are guitar players or bass players but I will tell you something for certain... If you do not push back and get guitar players out of our register they will continue to attempt to make us FEEL obsolete. Think about it... even socially the bass player is regarded as JUST the bass player... that was even before they start dropping down into our register =)


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## InfinityCollision (Oct 2, 2012)

Do what that Drum and Bass guy did and work in some lead lines. The tonal differences carry over into higher registers, but it's rare to see bands really take advantage of that.



quattro19tdi said:


> I don't think anyone really tunes down their guitar because they want it to sound like a bass..



And yet the inevitable response to ERGs from non-ERG players is that you should just play bass


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## purpledc (Oct 2, 2012)

and justice for all proved you dont need a bass player period, lol.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 2, 2012)

That's the disconnect... Lower tuning doesn't mean you've done the bass player's job.. just means you played lower. Just like a lot of guitar players are using a lot of the Nashville Slap Bass thing too. It's amazing to see but it's still not a bass no matter how many low strings and slap techniques they use.


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## wrongnote85 (Oct 2, 2012)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




pretty sure that's a regular guitar with a octave pedal.


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## Jzbass25 (Oct 3, 2012)

Tosin does a pretty good bass slap on his 8 I admit, I think it is victor wooten's technique he uses


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## angus (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> I don't know how many of you on this thread are guitar players or bass players but I will tell you something for certain... If you do not push back and get guitar players out of our register they will continue to attempt to make us FEEL obsolete.



So does that also apply to bass players entering into guitar register? Should they try and keep us out of their fundamental frequency domain? Is this setting a double standard?

I say this as a bass player who does not ever play a four string bass (to avoid the obvious counterargument).


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 3, 2012)

angus said:


> So does that also apply to bass players entering into guitar register? Should they try and keep us out of their fundamental frequency domain? Is this setting a double standard?
> 
> I say this as a bass player who does not ever play a four string bass (to avoid the obvious counterargument).



Fuck that. I play with an octave-up pedal to simulate an 8-string and a crapload of overdrive with my band all the time. If there's space and it fits, take it.


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## angus (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm not stating what I think in the question- I'm just asking if it works both ways, especially if we are considering low end to be more sacred ground.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 3, 2012)

For the record, Seven Nation Army was on standard tuning with a Whammy Pedal down one octave. 



TemjinStrife said:


> Fuck that. I play with an octave-up pedal to simulate an 8-string and a crapload of overdrive with my band all the time. If there's space and it fits, take it.


 
 I do this all the time as well. In fact I do it twice in this one track. 

Hell, I step on higher ground for bass all the time putting bass overdubs almost as much as the guitar. In fact my playing style is the reason this band abandoned the idea of having a keyboardist/second guitarist.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

I believe that the encroachment equivocates. My point is as stated that there is no substitute for a bass player. No matter how low you throw down or detune. As for bass players playing higher, same stuff... don't forget the purpose of being a bass player and that is to anchor the harmonic frequencies... If you start shredding or wanking in the song than it will go to shit. It would be like taking bricks out of the foundation of a house... It's going to fall apart or at the very least look like crap =)


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> For the record, Seven Nation Army was on standard tuning with a Whammy Pedal down one octave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What you are talking about is very different. An Octave pedal cannot be a bass player but it can be an addition to the artistic expression. What is happening is more of a shift away from the purpose... Additions to the purpose are always welcome =)


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> I believe that the encroachment equivocates. My point is as stated that there is no substitute for a bass player. No matter how low you throw down or detune. As for bass players playing higher, same stuff... don't forget the purpose of being a bass player and that is to anchor the harmonic frequencies... If you start shredding or wanking in the song than it will go to shit. It would be like taking bricks out of the foundation of a house... It's going to fall apart or at the very least look like crap =)


 
Naturally I enjoy having a solid low end and I agree that it's a very important part of the sonic spectrum. Of course that won't stop many players who aren't content with just staying in that one role. They will push the instrument's boundaries though only a few of them will succeed with cool results. 

Ultimately, at the end of the day, just like everything else, it's all about what the song calls for. I agree that crossing sonic boundaries needs to be done with taste and in the context of the song. Some bass examples:



Cliff takes centre stage here, and he fits the entire song effortlessly without stepping too much on the crushing guitar's sonic space. 



Adam Jones and Justin Chancellor literally swap verse parts here, and doesn't comprimise their repective roles at all. I can go on and on about Tool actually. 



Scott Fernandez said:


> What you are talking about is very different. An Octave pedal cannot be a bass player but it can be an addition to the artistic expression. What is happening is more of a shift away from the purpose... Additions to the purpose are always welcome =)


 
In that example, the low end is still covered, yet I used the bass in a way that's outside it's natural role. The exact opposite of what The White Stripes did with Seven Nation Army. 

Jack White was successful in making a memorable faux bass riff without an actual bass. Technically, no, it's not a bass at all, but he made a well known bass riff by going outside the box. 

Music has come a long way where many instruments are pushing the boundries of their own roles. Guitarists and Bassists have been experimenting with stepping outside their sonic roles now. As long as their ventures serve the music, and the music itself is compelling, then experiment away. 

All that said, I do agree that there is no substitute of having a good bass. 




...but I do like this track though...


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## Necris (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> I believe that the encroachment equivocates. My point is as stated that there is no substitute for a bass player. No matter how low you throw down or detune. As for bass players playing higher, same stuff... don't forget the purpose of being a bass player and that is to anchor the harmonic frequencies... If you start shredding or wanking in the song than it will go to shit. It would be like taking bricks out of the foundation of a house... It's going to fall apart or at the very least look like crap =)


I will always reject any notion of purpose applied to an instrument.
Nothing irritates me more than when a bass player helpfully attempts to help steer me back in the "right" direction by telling me "the bass is there to lock into a groove with a drummer", or some other similar nonsense.

Your job in a band setting is the job you choose to take and will be done how you choose to do it. Good musicians working together should be able to switch between their usual roles now and then without everything falling into oblivion.
I don't see why some players take it as an affront to the art of bass playing when one player decides that a certain part in the song would benefit from an extra melodic line or some other ornament. If these players feel encroached upon by guitarists tuning lower and lower maybe rather than waving their arms around and screaming "tune as low as you want, but you can't replace me!" it's time to make more use of the harmonic space the guitarists are leaving available, they aren't using all of it at once after all.

TL;DR: It's always a good thing to strive to serve the song; but don't buy into this "True purpose of bass playing" bullshit that some players perpetuate.


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## quattro19tdi (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't really get why people even bother to get upset about this, it's music, a form of art, there are no rules, people can do whatever they want. If I want to record music without bass and like it, that should be my business.


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## skeels (Oct 3, 2012)

purpledc said:


> and justice for all proved you dont need a bass player period, lol.



Zing!

Also, +1- for wah bass! Nobody like Clifford!


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## Semichastny (Oct 3, 2012)

This is the bass players fault, If they want to be heard and be a relevant part of ERG/downtuned music they need to get circle K strings and lower the guitarists bass EQ when they aren't looking.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Necris said:


> I will always reject any notion of purpose applied to an instrument.
> Nothing irritates me more than when a bass player helpfully attempts to help steer me back in the "right" direction by telling me "the bass is there to lock into a groove with a drummer", or some other similar nonsense.
> 
> Your job in a band setting is the job you choose to take and will be done how you choose to do it. Good musicians working together should be able to switch between their usual roles now and then without everything falling into oblivion.
> ...




Let me clarify because you seem to have misunderstood.... Bass, not the instrument specifically, is intended and used to anchor the harmonic framework of music. Bass Guitar is a representative of that ideal...


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

quattro19tdi said:


> I don't really get why people even bother to get upset about this, it's music, a form of art, there are no rules, people can do whatever they want. If I want to record music without bass and like it, that should be my business.



It's not a matter of being upset. It's VERY much about practical application. What happens more often than not is that someone who is not a bass player will attempt to disregard a bass player in a band. That is why the title of this is "there is no substitute for a bass player" not "bass get mad and beat up guitar players and then ruin music" or "you can't have art without bass... how dare they".
d-_-b


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Naturally I enjoy having a solid low end and I agree that it's a very important part of the sonic spectrum. Of course that won't stop many players who aren't content with just staying in that one role. They will push the instrument's boundaries though only a few of them will succeed with cool results.
> 
> Ultimately, at the end of the day, just like everything else, it's all about what the song calls for. I agree that crossing sonic boundaries needs to be done with taste and in the context of the song. Some bass examples:
> 
> ...




I understand what it's like to put bass in the role of everything else. I understand this role FIRST HAND. It's not just about single examples. The generality of the statements is that there is no substitute for a bass player. As there are tons of songs without bass players the lack there of does not define the parameters of artistry... In the grand scheme of music, bass itself barely existed as a viable addition until relatively recently (bass guitar within the past 80 years and then Leo Fender makin' his own around the 50s and the Bass Cleff itself only existing in modern history)


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Semichastny said:


> This is the bass players fault, If they want to be heard and be a relevant part of ERG/downtuned music they need to get circle K strings and lower the guitarists bass EQ when they aren't looking.



And that, in turn, is my point of saying that there is NO substitute. If they push into your register than push back or play lower... Versatility is the hallmark of a great bass player. That is why we do what we do
d-_-b

Also, they don't all have to be Circle Ks =) Ocatave4Plus and Conklin SITs both delve into ranges far below anything a guitar can put on =)


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Necris said:


> I will always reject any notion of purpose applied to an instrument.
> Nothing irritates me more than when a bass player helpfully attempts to help steer me back in the "right" direction by telling me "the bass is there to lock into a groove with a drummer", or some other similar nonsense.
> 
> Your job in a band setting is the job you choose to take and will be done how you choose to do it. Good musicians working together should be able to switch between their usual roles now and then without everything falling into oblivion.
> ...



and just so you guys can see a bit of where I am coming from...


Scott Fernandez - YouTube

I'm not some shmuck with a grudge... I'm actually a bass player by trade =)


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah i think you all misunderstood scott. If anyone is creative and goes "out of bounds", its scott.


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## Necris (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> Let me clarify because you seem to have misunderstood.... Bass, not the instrument specifically, is intended and used to anchor the harmonic framework of music. Bass Guitar is a representative of that ideal...



We're just going to have to agree to disagree.  I find the "function of bass" arguments inane, whether in reference to bass as a frequency range or a physical instrument that occupies it, attempt to apply a set function to infrasound and I'll disagree with you there too.  

I'm aware of your stuff though and it's great, I wasn't targeting just you specifically with that comment.


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## InfinityCollision (Oct 3, 2012)

Might want to be a little more "in bounds" as far as making a point then tbh, as I'm kind of confused.

How many bands actually don't use bass?

-Meshuggah (given the pic in the OP)? Nope, they have a bassist.
-AAL? They don't have a bassist, but there's bass on both records and they Protools (or w/e program) their basslines live.

That's about all I can think of that comes close for ERG bands, actually. The non-bass bands I can think of (White Stripes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Explosions in the Sky, The Doors, Black Keys) are all non-ERG bands. The Doors and Yeah Yeah Yeahs use keys instead, White Stripes and Black Keys are vox/guitar + drum duos (though the latter has actually had some bass on recent records iirc), and EITS is an unusual case where I'd actually say incorporating bass would run counter to their sound. There's also 7- and 8-string jazz guitarists, but that's an entirely different beast. I'm sure there's some metal band I'm not thinking of/don't know about, but this whole thread feels very out-of-left-field if the intent was to promote the bass' mere existence in ERG music.

Nothing against you Scott, I love your stuff, I just don't understand this thread.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Necris said:


> We're just going to have to agree to disagree.  I find the "function of bass" arguments inane, whether in reference to bass as a frequency range or a physical instrument that occupies it, attempt to apply a set function to infrasound and I'll disagree with you there too.
> 
> I'm aware of your stuff though and it's great, I wasn't targeting just you specifically with that comment.




My friend, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you just did.. You didn't get hateful or remain negative. Just a simple "agree to disagree" and for that you have my gratitude and respect!!!

As far as the collaborative musical aspect, I am strictly speaking for general and the modern/popularized forms of music. I am definitely aware of peoples who use music with all bass or without any bass at all. The role of bass in music has been and will always be the same BUT that does not define it's limitations.. Just as bass could sing lead in the choir or there is a portion in which the tube defines the melody or the kick drum drives and floor tom defines the rock song. Bass can always be more than it's origins. 

Within the guitars going lower, that involvement in the bass register is fine... Where it becomes an issue is where a guitar player will push a bassist out because the guitar feels like "he's got it"... which is no where NEAR accurate =)


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## Dayn (Oct 3, 2012)

I beg to differ. A synth is a pretty good substitute, actually.

It's also a good substitute for anything, really. All hail our electronic overlords.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

InfinityCollision said:


> Might want to be a little more "in bounds" as far as making a point then tbh, as I'm kind of confused.
> 
> How many bands actually don't use bass?
> 
> ...




Thank you for the clarification and WONDERFULLY informative bit of info =) Seriously, I love the examples. 

The post itself is, as defined, an advocacy for Bass Players and Bassists. There are many local, underground, low level, mid level, and a handful of popular/famous bands that attempt to negate and disregard the bass player. This post comes from a place of encouragement as there is no real substitute for what a bass player can do in a band. 

-Messhuggah - Bass Player. Check. I've seen this first hand where a young band will do without and say that "we tune down low enough that we don't need one. lol." 

-AAL - No Bass Player BUT they do do the bass related frequencies with the tracks. Similar justification used for this next crop of bands

-White Stripes - He does his thing. He's got the dissident hard driving guitars thing and does his mixes in a way that the sound wall isn't missing too much.

-Yeah Yeah Yeahs - no bass player and at times it is unfortunate BUT they derive a lot of that anchorage from the drums and overtones from the effected and delayed/looped guitars. As for the newer stuff they are synth bass-ing the heck out of those tracks..

-Explosions in the SKy - similar mix down as the YYYs and similar approach. They fill the air with more simple layering sounds so that the anchor of the harmonic frequencies comes from those overtones.

-The Doors - I don't dig them so I don't know anything about what they do... Sorry =(

-The Black Keys - After seeing the way they write music, I can understand why they don't... they LITERALLY rip off tunes where there really wasn't a bass in the first place, aside from vocals. It is LITERALLY a rip off... not a kind of sort of thing.. They watch and listen to old and unlicensed and un-owned music and put it on distorted guitars. I just can't accept it and I would be amazed if any other bass players could 


The jazz community rarely disregards the bass. They may encourage it to "stay in it's place" but they rarely do without it. The jazz guitar itself when doing it's walks is an attempt to emulate the bass BUT rarely jazz guitars record without it. I've seen trios and duos without bass, of course, but that may have more to do with not wanting to pay another band member for this low paying gig.




Remember, the purpose of it is that there is no substitute... there are a lot of additions and brother instruments and other things that can help but there is no substitute. 
d-_-b


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Dayn said:


> I beg to differ. A synth is a pretty good substitute, actually.
> 
> It's also a good substitute for anything, really. All hail our electronic overlords.



But bass synth is a lack luster approximation. I don't mind it but it's always obvious when it's done. Most of the time because it's done on a keyboard and thus sounds like it.... and that may be a bit of my bass player ear getting in the way of my musical ear


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

And for the record... THANK ALL OF YOU!!! You guys are proof that while disagreements happen on the internet... they don't have to be all shitty and hate filled and fucking... well... shitty. I am truly grateful to all of you and thoroughly impressed by intelligent you all have been. I wish some of the older people I get into arguments with on the internet were as open minded, receptive, and respectful as all of you... Especially the ones who attempt to convince me that my bass is not a bass =)


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## InfinityCollision (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> The post itself is, as defined, an advocacy for Bass Players and Bassists. There are many local, underground, low level, mid level, and a handful of popular/famous bands that attempt to negate and disregard the bass player. This post comes from a place of encouragement as there is no real substitute for what a bass player can do in a band.


Alright, thanks for clarifying. I think I may be out of the loop here then, or at least it's not something I've really seen around here. I agree with the overall point regardless - bass is a wonderful instrument with its own unique sound


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> But bass synth is a lack luster approximation. I don't mind it but it's always obvious when it's done. Most of the time because it's done on a keyboard and thus sounds like it.... and that may be a bit of my bass player ear getting in the way of my musical ear


 
This is where things become a little hazy. Sure your opinion on it is "lack luster" and that's fine, but for me, if it fits the music well, then it doesn't matter. 

Bass synth will always sound like a synth not so much as a bass guitar. It will still fit the role of the low end, naturally in the context of electronic music in general. 

The Yeah Yeah Yeah's was an interesting example too. The guitarist, I believe, uses a POG/HOG to compromise the lack of bass, thus giving their bass/synth tone that suits their style well. 

I'd also like to bring up other solo based instruments like Organ, Classical guitar and your typical acoustic folk singer. The first 2 cover the role of the bass quite well. In the Classical guitar context, of course it's 'no substitute for a real bass instrument' but it doesn't really matter when the music is arranged in such a way. Organ players play bass pedals to cover low end = John Paul Jones is an example of covering low end so well regardless of what instrument he plays. Kashmir has bass in the studio, but in the live context, he'll be on the organ, and while not the exact same as the original, he can still fill the low end so well that it doesn't matter anymore. 

Scott, I can fully understand where you're coming from and as I said before I do love a good bass or even 2 or more.  But there are some others who can eskew the notion of having a bassist and still write compelling music and that's fine too. I'm cool with guitarists covering the low end every now and then, and vice versa, granted that the music is good of course. The John Spencer example I put earlier is one of my favorite examples of that. And I'm not big on the Black Keys either. 

And just to get this out of the way, I'm aware of your music Scott. In fact, I think what you're doing is fantastic. I admire what you do with only one instrument covering so many sonic space, and I always enjoy players who push the boundaries with their chosen instrument. 

Also just to celebrate the awesomeness of bass, this needs to be posted:


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## Semichastny (Oct 3, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> And that, in turn, is my point of saying that there is NO substitute. If they push into your register than push back or play lower...



Push back? I'd go gorilla on their asses! and I say that as someone who picked up guitar first!


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> This is where things become a little hazy. Sure your opinion on it is "lack luster" and that's fine, but for me, if it fits the music well, then it doesn't matter.
> 
> Bass synth will always sound like a synth not so much as a bass guitar. It will still fit the role of the low end, naturally in the context of electronic music in general.
> 
> ...




In the quoted example is really the only point in time where it was full on subjective. That is the main reason I clarified with a good ol' mention of my bias bass musical bass ear. I don't TRULY mind, in the slightest. If that were the case than I would really have to adjust my views on music on the whole but as for now I truly enjoy all music, so long as I have taken the time to listen and generate an honest opinion of it (ex: I've never really taken the time for the Doors because I've had things that I've enjoyed soo much more and I never remember to listen to them when I actually have time to. Aside from Blood on The Dance Floor I have NEVER in my whole life hated any music that I've heard)

As for writing music without a bass, I mentioned a handful of posts earlier about how I'm aware of BEAUTIFUL compositions that do not involve bass at all, albeit the instrument or otherwise. I also mentioned music where it is nothing but. The beauty of artistic expression is that the form requires no rules. So as to clarify, this post is to uplift the bassist who feel disregarded and discouraged by those who attempt to justify there lack of a "need" for a bass due to the detuning and lowering of their register on their instruments =)


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

InfinityCollision said:


> Alright, thanks for clarifying. I think I may be out of the loop here then, or at least it's not something I've really seen around here. I agree with the overall point regardless - bass is a wonderful instrument with its own unique sound



IMHO (in my handsome opinion) Bass is the BEST instrument and all other instruments are dumb and I hate them because they're stupid. The. End.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

Semichastny said:


> Push back? I'd go gorilla on their asses! and I say that as someone who picked up guitar first!



I got you!!! Let's run this bitch...


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 3, 2012)

hmm, this debate is news to me.

They are different instruments, such that when you play the same note, same octave on a bass, it's going to resonate with more bass and thump more than on a guitar - just a different tone altogether....at least that's been my experience playing both.

So yeah, i won't be showing up to my bass gigs with an 8 string guitar anytime soon.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 3, 2012)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> hmm, this debate is news to me.
> 
> They are different instruments, such that when you play the same note, same octave on a bass, it's going to resonate with more bass and thump more than on a guitar - just a different tone altogether....at least that's been my experience playing both.
> 
> So yeah, i won't be showing up to my bass gigs with an 8 string guitar anytime soon.



Maybe it's just something that I noticed as a trend with these kats... I've done a good amount of touring over the past 6 months and I've heard in a handful of the more musical cities.. It's VERY strange and flat out troublesome...

Also, I appreciate you bringing your bass to your bass gigs =)


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## signalgrey (Oct 3, 2012)

Local H


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 4, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> Maybe it's just something that I noticed as a trend with these kats... I've done a good amount of touring over the past 6 months and I've heard in a handful of the more musical cities.. It's VERY strange and flat out troublesome...
> 
> Also, I appreciate you bringing your bass to your bass gigs =)



Haha. I guess i could see some guys having trouble finding a bassist and saying "screw it, were low enough on guitar anyway" - if it works for them why not right? Sounds like you see much more than me as far as latest trends on the music scene - i just play locally. Maybe that'll be the next thing - bass players no longer needed.


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## Sam MJ (Oct 4, 2012)

Personally I think the people who are saying that a bass can be replaced by an 8 string just don't really understand things properly.

Ignoring the whole a bass player does this argument, have you heard a really heavy track with just the guitars? The guitars sound like shit but when you add the bass they just merge into one almighty behemoth. For me that's pretty much one big reason why bassists aren't going to be replaced any time soon.

I expect bassists are going to be fine in genres like blues and jazz 
though, much more interesting parts and they would be missed if they went .

But I do think bassists are definitely being taken for granted more and more, especially in rock and metal, it's getting harder to hear them in recorded music because alot of people are using cheap ear buds and scince alot of bassists are just playing the root notes it's seen as easier than playing guitar and so they kind of disapear into the background. 

Pity really, maybe bassists should stop playing every now and then (maybe for a verse) and groove more so that when they come back in you get the comparison and are taken for granted less.

I dunno though, i'm only a guitarist tbh but i'd love to start playing bass soon!


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## no_dice (Oct 4, 2012)

I actually had to order thinner strings for my 30" hellraiser, because the ones that came on it made it sound too much like a bass. I'm certainly not trying to impose on the bass' job by tuning so low. Like many others here have said, a low tuned guitar is not a bass, and most people with sense won't try to use it as one.

Playing a bass line on a guitar (tuned low or not) is akin to making a lite-brite rendition of an oil painting. You can see what they're going for, but it is nothing like the original.


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## Athor (Oct 4, 2012)

why people don&#39;t like bass solo - YouTube

The master have spoken.

I rest my case.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Haha. I guess i could see some guys having trouble finding a bassist and saying "screw it, were low enough on guitar anyway" - if it works for them why not right? Sounds like you see much more than me as far as latest trends on the music scene - i just play locally. Maybe that'll be the next thing - bass players no longer needed.




I am just clarifying... I don't want what I said to come off as condescending... I meant it in a very fact based way. I hear this crap to an absurd degree... It's VERY strange to me.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

Sam MJ said:


> Personally I think the people who are saying that a bass can be replaced by an 8 string just don't really understand things properly.
> 
> Ignoring the whole a bass player does this argument, have you heard a really heavy track with just the guitars? The guitars sound like shit but when you add the bass they just merge into one almighty behemoth. For me that's pretty much one big reason why bassists aren't going to be replaced any time soon.
> 
> ...



Well, that might be part of it, for sure, but I remember what it was like for me in highschool and stuff. Most of the bass players I met were either encouraged to do so by their friends so they can form a band (normally the weakest of the guitar players or the person with the most money to go out and buy a bass)

The screw it attitude is all good and great... It's their justification that it makes it a conflict. When they say that it's "the same" or "we don't need one because we play so low". That poses an entirely different set of concerns
d-_-b


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

Athor said:


> why people don't like bass solo - YouTube
> 
> The master have spoken.
> 
> I rest my case.



This video has little to nothing to do what we're mentioning. On the whole, a "bass solo" is a VERY different situation... I play solo bass but I am a HORRID bass soloist.... 

Also, what Vic Wooten is describing pertains to more to the purpose or "role" of a bass player in modern music, as pertaining to "groove" and "feel".


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

no_dice said:


> I actually had to order thinner strings for my 30" hellraiser, because the ones that came on it made it sound too much like a bass. I'm certainly not trying to impose on the bass' job by tuning so low. Like many others here have said, a low tuned guitar is not a bass, and most people with sense won't try to use it as one.
> 
> Playing a bass line on a guitar (tuned low or not) is akin to making a lite-brite rendition of an oil painting. You can see what they're going for, but it is nothing like the original.



What a wonderful and articulate analogy you used with the "lite-bright rendition of an oil painting". That was spot on my opinion
d-_-b


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## Athor (Oct 4, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> This video has little to nothing to do what we're mentioning. On the whole, a "bass solo" is a VERY different situation... I play solo bass but I am a HORRID bass soloist....
> 
> Also, what Vic Wooten is describing pertains to more to the purpose or "role" of a bass player in modern music, as pertaining to "groove" and "feel".



I know. Just had to throw it in anyways.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

Athor said:


> I know. Just had to throw it in anyways.



Dig it! Gotta love Mr. Wooten =)


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## Athor (Oct 4, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> Dig it! Gotta love Mr. Wooten =)



Indeed. The man is amazing!


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 4, 2012)

Athor said:


> Indeed. The man is amazing!



I'm actually doing a cover of one of his tunes in this series of Cover videos I'm doing... It's going to be a fun piece to put out =)


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 5, 2012)

Add Pig Destroyer to the list of bassless (teehee) bands. I think they sound awesome, though admittedly they aren't trying to replace the bass with a guitar or anything, they just... don't have one, and IMO, don't need one.


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## angus (Oct 5, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> I play solo bass but I am a HORRID bass soloist....



I hope you don't put this particular jewel of logic on your gig flyers.


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 5, 2012)

angus said:


> I hope you don't put this particular jewel of logic on your gig flyers.



HA! Nah... I offend in all the other ways I can
d-_-b


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 5, 2012)

And here is more of that same challenge... I am a total jerk about it too  If they can play lower than I am going to steal their solos
d-_-b

Scott Fernandez - Covers "Fade To Black" by Metallica (Opening Guitar Solo) (1984) - YouTube


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## Trespass (Oct 10, 2012)

Whoops, a whole format of music that SUBSTITUTES THE BASS PLAYER!?


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## Scott Fernandez (Oct 10, 2012)

Trespass said:


> Whoops, a whole format of music that SUBSTITUTES THE BASS PLAYER!?




I think substitute might be a little much... Maybe a reasonable approximation. The role is accomplished but is lacking the ingenuity of a bass player. There are tons of bass-less acts out there, as we have already discuss, but there remains no real substitute for a bass player... aside from another bass player.


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## angus (Oct 11, 2012)

What do you mean "the ingenuity of a bass player"? 

Anyway Frank Vignola is a great _musician_.


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## Semichastny (Oct 11, 2012)

angus said:


> What do you mean "the ingenuity of a bass player"?
> 
> Anyway Frank Vignola is a great _musician_.



Compare the bass on a punk or thrash record with the bass on a jazz record.


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## angus (Oct 11, 2012)

That's not ingenuity, though.


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