# Stupidest things you've heard said about bands/artists...



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

Inspired by Hal's story in a different thread about the kid who proclaimed that Allan Holdsworth was ripping off Meshuggah, what're the dumbest things you've heard people say upon hearing new music?

1) Ani DiFranco sounds like Avril Lavigne...
2) John Coltrane plays 'elevator music'...
3) A Terry Syrek tune featuring rhythm guitars tuned to B, various odd time signatures, a tabla part, an eastern-sounding melody, and some insanely fast exotic scales and chromatic runs is 'Just typical 80s stuff'.

Fire away...


----------



## Nick (Feb 21, 2008)

4) Meshuggah's music is very easy to play and simple because its now mostly 1 stringed stuff with no chords


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

5) A highly-respected guitar virtuoso (whose name I'll leave you to guess) claiming that Satriani is boring and barely meets the requirements of a virtuoso, but within the same paragraph claiming that Francesco Fareri is 'a true virtuoso monster'...

*DR despises people who think speed is the sole measure of virtuosity.


----------



## halsinden (Feb 21, 2008)

my *mother*, regarding "you're sort of music..." and its solos, suggesting that:

"he's just running up and down scales, it's not a patch on brian [may]. you should learn his solos, you know."

and about metal in general:

"but it's not actually music, though. it's not like you can hear a tune. at least bands like black sabbath played _tunes_."

---------------------

my aunt delia, commenting whilst i was practicing modes, suggested that her favourite, the aeolian, had less than 8 notes...

*me* - "it has 8."

*delia* - "i'm not sure you're right, hal."

*me* - (handing her a book of scales, open on the right page) "it has 8 notes."

*delia* - (glancing at it) "well... it didn't when i was younger."

---------------------

an *ex film making colleague*, something of a tecno freak

"nah man, all that metal & rock? that's not effort man, that's just slinging notes together and playing them as loud as you can. man, being a DJ, that's fucking hard man, you have to be _good_."

---------------------

another *non-metaller acquaintance*, on death metal vocals:

*them* - "it's using distortion."

*me* - "it's not."

*them* - "it is man, blatantly. listen to it... that's a distortion pedal on his voice."

*me* - "mate, it's not, i do it."

*them* - "i'm sorry man, but listen, you can't actually make that noise without-"

*me* - "(death metal roar)"

*them* - "... that's fucked up."

------------------------

my *tutor from boarding school*, austin E vince (who, it transpires, managed the early stages of, and was partly responsible for the spate of 50s revivalist 'the...' bands in the UK), on bumping into him around 2005 in camden:

*AEV* - "so what have you been up to?"

*me *- "quite a lot, actually. my band just released an album, we're signed now so it's in't shops 'n all, we leave to tour the UK in a few weeks in support of it and the video is out. the single even got played on radio 1!"

*AEV *- "ah, that's great to hear you've got a hobby, what are you doing for a job then?"

H


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

My ex-girlfriend complaining that Jaco Pastorius' rendition of 'Donna Lee' sounded like a bee in a jam jar.

A guy at school enthusiastically telling me how HIM have invented a new type of metal (as you've probably guessed, he'd never heard Anathema or Type O Negative...).

Allan Holdsworth's just noodling and not even playing any scale.


----------



## lucasreis (Feb 21, 2008)

A friend of mine who listens to Blind Guardian claims his favorite type of metal is Industrial 

And my ex-girlfriend´s cousin. He used to tell me how he loved Black Metal bands such as Biohazard, Korn and Soulfly.


----------



## Naren (Feb 21, 2008)

Well, I don't think I can beat any of Hal's, but I always thought it ridiculous when people claimed that some band ripped off another band that sounded completely different. I remember posting on here something like, "I swear. When I get famous, people are going to interview me, asking me if I'm ripping off bands I've never heard of. 'Many people have been hearing a lot of influence of 'Carnal Demonology' on your latest album, some even claiming that you ripped them off entirely. What do you say to that?' 'Cargo what? Was that a band name?' 'Uh, yeah, they... they say you're copying their sound.' 'What language was that anyway?'"

I too have heard the "metal isn't music" argument or the "that stuff isn't music" argument (in reference to hard rock, hardcore punk, etc.) and the people spouting nonsense about instruments when they clearly don't know what the hell they're talking about.


----------



## halsinden (Feb 21, 2008)

should one perhaps include the, doubtless well-meaning but somewhat missing the mark, comment from a young jack osbourne during the late night neighbour complaint episode from the osbournes, about to use a meshuggah track:

get ready for some norwegian fucking death metal

not quite, jack lad. maybe take up kickboxing, next.

H


----------



## ukfswmart (Feb 21, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> 1) Ani DiFranco sounds like Avril Lavigne...



Ani DiFranco just shot right up to the top of my 'music to buy and enjoy' list


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

I once flicked through this retarded 'dummy's guide to Goth' book in Waterstones, and amongst all the tedious cliches and stale jokes, there was a 'music goths like' list that included, amongst others, those well-known staples of gothic music, Korn, Papa Roach, Iron Maiden and Dark Funeral...

*DR also hates people who assume goth and metal are the same thing...



Comparing CD purchases with a guy at school. I'd just brought Meshuggah's 'Nothing' album and he'd brought a Dead Kennedys album. 

FRIEND: 'Do you like the Dead Kennedys?#
ME: 'No, I don't like punk.'
FRIEND: 'What, too heavy for you?'


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> Ani DiFranco just shot right up to the top of my 'music to buy and enjoy' list



Deemed true.


----------



## Stitch (Feb 21, 2008)

halsinden said:


> another *non-metaller acquaintance*, on death metal vocals:
> 
> *them* - "it's using distortion."
> 
> ...



I've had that several times before. 

My favourite was a regular customer came in when my iPod was playing. My iPod gets a lot of scrutiny but a surprising amount of respect. I was playing Necrophagist and this bumbling old washed up git came up and said "whats that? Those drums are programmed! Not a patch on Ringo Starr!"



This was Epitaph, so nothing was programmed. I tried showing him live videos and he wouldnt believe me, he said they were miming. 

I decided not to tell him that The Beatles actually had Ringo Starr's drum parts re-recorded by a professional session musician because he simply wasn't a good enough drummer for some of their releases. I think the idea of a guy with a labret piercings growling along to "Epitaph" knowing more than him about The Beatles might have just been too much for him.

I've also frequently heard the "that band sucks" to Meshuggah's Chaosphere.

"They're all playing out of time!" the punter will exclaim...


----------



## halsinden (Feb 21, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> Ani DiFranco just shot right up to the top of my 'music to buy and enjoy' list



mart, you haven't listened to difranco?

you amaze me, sometimes.

H


----------



## Wolfster (Feb 21, 2008)

"yeah man lets do something crazy and play in 25/78"


I never wanna be harsh to guys that say that because on the surface they think the're being really cool and knowledgeable, but in fact the're just revealing out right their ignorance. funny shit dawg


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 21, 2008)

"They have no sense of rhythm." -My mom, talking about Opeth, listening to the Leper Affinity. I ask her to start counting the beat, she starts going, "1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4". PROTIP: It's in 3/4.


----------



## ElRay (Feb 21, 2008)

Attributed to Carlos Santana's Wife said:


> I don't know why Neil Peart gets all the credit he does, he can't even read music so the other guys in the band have to write his drum parts and he learns them by listening to a drum machine.


When we lived in LA, the Santanas were one of my wife's clients, and there's no way she would say anything like this. But, at least is does have a basis in reality. Since the 90's (we'll ignore Rush's first 20 years), Lee and Lifesong would compose by jamming to a drum machine and from time-to-time, what they came-up with drum-wise worked really well, so Neil did learn a few parts from the drum machine, and didn't have any music credits on those particular songs.

Ray


----------



## Mattayus (Feb 21, 2008)

Years ago when i was at school we had one of those substitute lessons due to exam timings etc, and instead of going to physics we were aloud to have a 'fun' sort of music lesson.

Anyway, my teacher, who was a 54 year old, welsh, cantankerous old twat who looked like a shaven cat, suggested we should show him what we listen to. My mate, who was into punk, shows him some of The Vandals. He proclaimed that the drumming was too fast and was impossible for a human to play... The Vandals... it's pop punk... like bass, snare, bass bass, snare... like... 120bpm... tops...
If only Divine Heresy were out at the time, i think he may just have turned to stone.

Also, i was on a bus on a school trip once, and my walkman (yes, that's how old i am) was blaring out some Pantera. Some cunt in the seat infront of me turns around and goes "what is that crap?". I offered him an ear, he listened, threw it back and goes "yeah, i used to listen to that sorta shite, like nirvana and stuff". I went.. "nirvana? this is Pantera, it couldn't be more different", to which he replied "yeah.. well... it's got guitars hasn't it?"


----------



## oompa (Feb 21, 2008)

Stitch said:


> I've also frequently heard the "that band sucks" to Meshuggah's Chaosphere.
> 
> "They're all playing out of time!" the punter will exclaim...



 yeah what the hell is up with that? 

i've also heard stupid stuff like that about tech metal, usually it goes like this:

they: "but they're just making noise, all of them are just picking random tones and hitting random drums" 

me: "ehm, listen, they're playing stuff together, its just not that predictable like.. listen to how the guitars follow the drums"

they after a while: "whatever, the vocalist sux, he sounds like a lawnmover"

me "sigh.. well, wouldnt it sound worse if alicia keys sang to this song?"

they; "atleast i'd hear the lyrics, why is he singing anyway? he could just go DOOGARRRDOOGARR all the time instead, this music has no depth, (random popartist) sings his/her feelings out you know... being sad or troubled you know.. people relate you know.."

me: "glaargh.. well, maybe this dude is pissed off at something, tried relating to that? 

they: "..they look like satanists. they suck."

me:


----------



## oompa (Feb 21, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> "yeah, i used to listen to that sorta shite, like nirvana and stuff". I went.. "nirvana? this is Pantera, it couldn't be more different", to which he replied "yeah.. well... it's got guitars hasn't it?"



 well he actually has a point and it remembers me of another thing:

you ask a dude what kind of music he/she likes and they reply: i like everything. i listen to everything.

like.. wtf. you haven't heard a fraction of everything, besides that its just a nullifying answer, it would be better to just answer raspberry.

and if you follow that one up with something like "hrrm.. well, thats a bold statement, care to elaborate a little?" and they go "everything.. like.. anything from alanis morissette to guns n roses." and i go like.. ya...................... and then there is like.. downbeat ambient, black metal, ragga, classic composition, acapella music, harpsichord quartets, guys blowing horns for a full album, there is riverdance music, oldschool 50's jazz, emo synth, sludge, beatbox'ing, piano duels, indian techno, videogame music, spanish flamenco, hell, in a musical spectrum of EVERYTHING, alanis morrissette and guns and roses are like.. within the same quarter of a percent in style, and i asure you you are not list..

and they cut me off like "okokokok i listen to pop and rock"


----------



## Naren (Feb 21, 2008)

oompa said:


> well he actually has a point and it remembers me of another thing:
> 
> you ask a dude what kind of music he/she likes and they reply: i like everything. i listen to everything.
> 
> ...



And, if I were the one talking to you, I would have said, "Yeah... everything... except country and all of its incarnations."


----------



## Lozek (Feb 21, 2008)

Be careful presuming that people don't though. My new boss at work (mid 40's middle management type) told me he listened to a broad range of things and asked the standard question: 

'So, what does your band sound like then? Tell me some bands'

so I gave my standard work reply:

'Probably not anything that you would have heard of'

and his response:

'Maybe something like Opeth?'.

Que my jaw hitting the floor. Turns out he DOES listen to a very broad range of things. Very rare example I know, but it can happen every so often.

Another great example of overheard statements though. In a factory I used to work in a few years ago the standard shit-spewing radio station was pumping out hymns of moronity, and we were suddenly rewardeed with 'Under the Bridge' by RHCP.

The machinist behind me comes out with 'Who the hell has ruined this All Saints classic?'


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 21, 2008)

on the topic of meshuggah: 

"the guitarist are just playing some random stuff, it sounds like he's having a epilepsy attack"

"the drummer sucks, he is just hitting the snare all over the place without any sense of rhythm"


----------



## Naren (Feb 21, 2008)

Before I ever started to listen to metal (I guess before I turned 13 or so), I remember people my mom's age always saying negative things about metal and hard rock (more specifically about metal) such as, "It doesn't take any skill to play," "they're just making noise," and so on. They just stressed so much that metal didn't take any skill to play and that the people doing it were talentless that when I actually listened to it for the first time I was like, "Wait. It sounds to me like metal takes more talent than most of the other popular music genres out there."

I don't know how people could think Meshuggah is random. I could see them thinking it's "off," but it's so "off" (from their point of view) that it'd have to be intentional. 

I wonder what my mom would think if she heard the grindcore-brutal death metal type song my band just wrote or some of our darker heavier stuff. I'm sure she can't imagine me doing that kind of stuff. She knows I'm in a band, but, for all she knows, it's just a "rock" band. 



Lozek said:


> Another great example of overheard statements though. In a factory I used to work in a few years ago the standard shit-spewing radio station was pumping out hymns of moronity, and we were suddenly rewardeed with 'Under the Bridge' by RHCP.
> 
> The machinist behind me comes out with 'Who the hell has ruined this All Saints classic?'



 That's like someone thinking that "Dancing Days" was written by Stone Temple Pilots. They'd probably be pretty confused when they heard the original Zeppelin version.


----------



## lucasreis (Feb 21, 2008)

This is one of the most original and fun threads I´ve ever seen in a forum. 

Theres some priceless stuff here.


----------



## TimSE (Feb 21, 2008)

"A7X have the best guitarists in the world actually!" - one of my students.

i then luled in his n00b face and insisted in pwning em hard! with some wanktastic licks of glory.

he doesnt like em anymore  WIN


----------



## ElRay (Feb 21, 2008)

Naren said:


> That's like someone thinking that "Dancing Days" was written by Stone Temple Pilots. They'd probably be pretty confused when they heard the original Zeppelin version.


That's Dejavu all over again. There's Zeppelin stuff that when it was new people didn't (and in some case there's people that still don't) know that the pieces were covers. Ditto for The Rolling Stones.

Ray


----------



## kristallin (Feb 21, 2008)

One of my favorite radio moments harks back to the dark ages, well, 1980s, when Tommy Vance proclaimed, after having played Gary Moore's "Over The Hills And Far Away", and I quote: "If he were playing a violin everyone would be oohing and aahing over how beautiful he can play. But, since he's playing a guitar everyone's screaming 'Oi, turn that racket off!'"


----------



## Groff (Feb 21, 2008)

My Girlfriend: "Judas Priest and Iron Maiden aren't metal!"
Me:  *plays painkiller*
My Girlfriend: "He's singing, REAL metal doesn't have singing! It needs double bass and growls!"
Me: 


...She doesn't understand what metal is, because she doesn't listen to 'metal' at all, she listens to a lot of death and grind, but doesn't like actual heavy metal.



TimSE said:


> "A7X have the best guitarists in the world actually!" - one of my students.
> 
> i then luled in his n00b face and insisted in pwning em hard! with some wanktastic licks of glory.
> 
> he doesnt like em anymore  WIN



I have to give A7X some credit and say that their guitarists don't SUCK and that the new album is actually good... But The best in the world??? Not by a long shot.  It's better than being influence by Britanny spears and N'sync IMO.


----------



## Sebastian (Feb 21, 2008)

In a guitar shop... some guy told that if a guitarist has a guitar with a lot of visible wear, dings scratches.. he makes it for purpose to look cool... He told Iommi has a "destroyed" guitar just like that...

i was like


----------



## Groff (Feb 21, 2008)

I just remembered one. In the guitar magazine that had Zakk Wylde, Alexi Laiho, and Steve Vai on the cover. Alexi made the comment "Some people can play really fast, and they can play super well, but they're also super lame, like Dream Theater" Now, I agreed with him, because while I love DT, Petrucci's constant wankery gets boring after a while. But what kills me is that people misinterpreted it as "Dream Theater Sucks!" which wasn't what he said. The next months issue was filled with hate mail. This one serves as the dumbest:

"Well Alexi ASSO, of Children of BORDOM!! If Dream Theater is so bad then why was Petrucci shredding licks while you were still shitting mustard in your diaper."

I 'd at his stupidity.

Here's another story courtesy of my employment time at guitar center.

Customer: "I want this guitar *holds up a nice looking Mexi strat* and this strap"
Rich, the smelly token hippie: "*grumbles* You can't use that strap maaaaaan, it's got a shoe string on the end, it's for acoustic guitars!"

Here's another, from when I had to cover in guitar accesories:

Customer: "Do you have polish for left handed guitars?"
...Silly left handers.  

And another:
Customer: "I don't like DW drums they're assembled and painted by robots and machines! I like Tama's cause they're handmade!"
Drum regional manager: "pfffttHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!" *the regional manager worked for DW and was personal friends with the owners


----------



## Necky379 (Feb 21, 2008)

my uncle once told me that "all that loud noisy music is going to wear on my soul" 
the next time he was at the house i put the lamb of god killadelphia dvd on and he actually watched it, asked me and my dad questions, and came away with a different attitude. my dad isn't a metal fan but does have high respect for the level of skill required to write and play a lot of it.


----------



## Groff (Feb 21, 2008)

halsinden said:


> another *non-metaller acquaintance*, on death metal vocals:
> 
> *them* - "it's using distortion."
> 
> ...



 That's awesome!


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

Stitch said:


> I've also frequently heard the "that band sucks" to Meshuggah's Chaosphere.
> 
> "They're all playing out of time!" the punter will exclaim...



That's exactly what my mum said about Meshuggah when she first heard them, although to her credit she immediately commented that Frederick Thordendal's solos were pretty impressive...


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 21, 2008)

ukfswmart said:


> Ani DiFranco just shot right up to the top of my 'music to buy and enjoy' list



Just for the hell of it, here's my favourite Ani song...



Best break-up song ever...


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 21, 2008)

i like some strange shit, but ani difranco?


----------



## lucasreis (Feb 21, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> That's exactly what my mum said about Meshuggah when she first heard them, although to her credit she immediately commented that Frederick Thordendal's solos were pretty impressive...



You guys have quite advanced moms.

While my mom is a prog/classic rock admirer (she´s into Pink Floyd, Queen, Rush, Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Kiss, Queensryche, even a little Metallica, Led Zeppellin, etc). I would never show her Meshuggah or some heavier metal stuff cause she doesn´t dig screaming vocals, she says it´s not music. 

I remember some years ago I was listening to Slipknot and other not-so-but-heavy stuff and she said it´s "disturbing stuff that makes you want to kill youself while listening to it". It was funny! 

We do have our differences but she doesn´t complain about my musical taste, because, even if she doesn´t like the heavier stuff, she knows it´s rooted in rock and that´s what counts.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 21, 2008)

its always hilerious when older people listen to metal and proclam that its that type of music that makes you kill people or go crazy.
it shows how out of touch with reality they are, its about the same thing from the 60's and 50's when they made reefer madness and said if you smoked pot you would go insane!


----------



## Psychoface (Feb 21, 2008)

Jamie (the guy that cheated on my ex-girlfriend when me and her were dating) proclaimed that dying fetus was emo... hes a loser


----------



## Groff (Feb 21, 2008)

Psychoface said:


> Jamie (the guy that cheated on my ex-girlfriend when me and her were dating) proclaimed that dying fetus was emo... hes a loser



I'm speechless.


----------



## WarriorOfMetal (Feb 21, 2008)

halsinden said:


> my aunt delia, commenting whilst i was practicing modes, suggested that her favourite, the aeolian, had less than 8 notes...
> 
> *me* - "it has 8."
> 
> ...



technically, they have 7 notes


----------



## harkonnen8 (Feb 21, 2008)

i`ve heard that guitarists are using a special tremolo pedal for tremolo picking


----------



## Tymon (Feb 21, 2008)

My mother on Chuck's lead from Death's "Spirit Crusher": "Sounds like a broken washing machine"


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

Psychoface said:


> Jamie (the guy that cheated on my ex-girlfriend when me and her were dating) proclaimed that dying fetus was emo... hes a loser



Maybe he was talking about an actual dying fetus, and not the band Dying Fetus. I could see how a withered, writhing, unborn child in the fetal position expriring could be concidered "emo".


----------



## Sebastian (Feb 21, 2008)

maybe not stupid... but quite weird...

when i was just practicing guitar my grandmother called... i was playing Angel of death by Slayer... my grandma told that it is very nice... and if i can play somthing else... so i played Cowboys From Hell - PanterA ... and my grandmother said its horrible... and that the first thing was nice ...


----------



## Heavy Ed (Feb 21, 2008)

5 or 6 years ago a co-worker of mine told everyone I work with I'm a liar and I don't really play guitar because theres no such thing as a 7 string guitar. Everyone knows they only have 6!


----------



## ElRay (Feb 21, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> Just for the hell of it, here's my favourite Ani song...


[action=ElRay]continues off-topic just for a bit[/action]
+1. Dilate is a truly, truly great (about this -><- much shy of phenomenal) album. The other one I love is "The Past Didn't Go Anywhere", which is her playing music over all these stories being told by Utah Phillips. None of his music, just the story telling he'd do between his songs.


Ray



harkonnen8 said:


> i`ve heard that guitarists are using a special tremolo pedal for tremolo picking


Along this line, I have been told that it's not called vibrato, it's called tremolo, that's why guitars have tremolo bars and not vibrato bars.

I also remember hearing something about infinite vs. zero radius fingerboards, but I can't remember what that was. 

Ray


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

Heavy Ed said:


> 5 or 6 years ago a co-worker of mine told everyone I work with I'm a liar and I don't really play guitar because theres no such thing as a 7 string guitar. Everyone knows they only have 6!



The real question here is why do people say shit like this? 

I mean, really, the guy doesn't _*obviously*_ doesn't play guitar. WTF is the point of pretending you know about something that you obviously don't... _*especially*_ to the face of someone who obviously does!? 

I really want to know the psychology behind this... I mean I wouldn't pretend I knew all about pancreas surgery in front of a dude with a stethoscope around his neck, so what brings _*so*_ many people who dont know shit about music or playing instruments to making comments like, "This has no rhythm" (to Opeth), or "It takes no talent to play metal" (to Death).


----------



## harkonnen8 (Feb 21, 2008)

ElRay said:


> [action=ElRay]continues off-topic just for a bit[/action]
> +1. Dilate is a truly, truly great (about this -><- much shy of phenomenal) album. The other one I love is "The Past Didn't Go Anywhere", which is her playing music over all these stories being told by Utah Phillips. None of his music, just the story telling he'd do between his songs.
> 
> 
> ...



infinite radius fingerboards


----------



## Jaaaaamie (Feb 21, 2008)

get ready to laugh


----------



## harkonnen8 (Feb 21, 2008)

nice one


----------



## Mr. S (Feb 21, 2008)

erep sir!


----------



## halsinden (Feb 21, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> technically, they have 7 notes



sorry, should've added, she's talking in the region of like 6.

H


----------



## bostjan (Feb 21, 2008)

People who say that bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X make repeatitive music, then say that "Crimson and Clover" was the best song evar.


----------



## Holy Katana (Feb 21, 2008)

My German class last year was musically challenged. For example, last year, our teacher let us play CDs (or plug in our iPods) during class on her boom box. So, I brought in _Surfing with the Alien_. 

Kid in my class: What is this crap? It's like '70s music or something.
Me: It came out in '87, actually.
Kid: Whatever, it's all the same, anyway.
*Joe's solo on "Surfing" comes on*
Other kid: What the hell's he doing, playing video games?
Me: No, he's just playing really fast.
Other kid: Sounds like video games to me.

Another time, I brought in _This Godless Endeavor_. Needless to say, it didn't turn out well.

Me: *puts in CD; "Born" comes on*
Same kid who thought Satch was from the '70s: Dude, turn off the emo, _now_!
Me: Dude, this isn't emo.
Kid: Screamo, then.
Me: It's metal.
Kid: Sounds like emo to me.
Me: Well, your idea of emo is horribly flawed.
Kid: Dude, it's emo.
Me: Let me guess, anything that isn't mainstream hip-hop or techno is emo?
Kid: Yep.
Me: You're a dumbass, Eric.

Good times, good times.


----------



## Heavy Ed (Feb 21, 2008)

I hear so much stupid shit from so many people on so many subjects that I've been racking my brain about the best ones in music. Here are a few...

"If it wasn't for KISS there would be no heavy metal!"

"Slayer is one of my favorite bands, I love their album TO HELL WITH THE DEVIL!" 

" (pre Black album) Metallica sucks! (post black album) Metallica RULES!"

Me- " i'm into deathmetal and grindcore" 
Friend- " What like Limp Biskit?"

"No point in listening to anything but Led Zep because everyone else just copies them!"


----------



## harkonnen8 (Feb 21, 2008)

Heavy Ed said:


> I hear so much stupid shit from so many people on so many subjects that I've been racking my brain about the best ones in music. Here are a few...
> 
> "If it wasn't for KISS there would be no heavy metal!"
> 
> ...



yep, meshuggah are basically playing the same stuff. they sound a little different - because they have those 8string guitars, you know.


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

harkonnen8 said:


> infinite radius fingerboards



Actually, that would be correct nomenclature... a flat line can also be called an infinite radius curve. I have a flexible curve for drafting whose flattest setting (i.e. stright) is labeled as &#8734;. 

A zero radius curve would be a point... which is an imaginary concept really.


----------



## Mastodon (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm one of those "I listen to everything" kind of guys. 

Obviously there isn't enough time in the world for me to literally listen to everything but it's nigh impossible to find something that I would not enjoy. 

I like to a be a highly sarcastic asshole and I really really really do not like answering those kind of questions so when people ask me I respond with "PoopCore"

I feel it's appropriate since everything I listen to sounds like shit.

As for a story, I had to drive my sister to a birthday party a while back, when she got in the car "Sunspots" by Nine Inch Nails was playing. The first thing out of her mouth before I can even put the car in gear is "CAN WE LISTEN TO SOMETHING I LIKE!? THIS MUSIC'S TOO ANGRY!"

One of the rules I follow when anyone is riding with me is that I will generally try to put it on something they like, but if they complain about it I'll put it on whatever I think will irritate them the most. (I have no problem changing it if they ask politely though)

So I put Beneath the Massacre in. We got maybe 3 minutes down the road and she yelled "THIS MUSIC SUCKS IT'S ALL RANDOM AND IT GIVES ME A HEADACHE CHANGE IT NOW! THEY'RE NOT EVEN PLAYING ANYTHING THEY'RE JUST HITTING WHATEVER" 

So I agreed to change it for her and put Dillinger Escape Plan in.

Edit: Ironically, I love the new Hillary Duff album which I first heard on her mp3 player.


----------



## MorbidTravis (Feb 21, 2008)

herman li plays cleanly


----------



## Summers45 (Feb 21, 2008)

MorbidTravis said:


> herman li plays cleanly



In fact, anything positive about Herman Li.

I have an ex who, when I was with her, said Dream Theater's music was shite because the singing took too long to come in.


----------



## NegaTiveXero (Feb 21, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> technically, they have 7 notes



I was gonna say something about that too. I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that.


----------



## WarriorOfMetal (Feb 21, 2008)

NegaTiveXero said:


> I was gonna say something about that too. I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that.



it's also possible to imply modes with pentatonics (which have 5 notes, obviously)


----------



## CatPancakes (Feb 21, 2008)

halsinden said:


> ---------------------
> 
> another *non-metaller acquaintance*, on death metal vocals:
> 
> ...



i get that all teh time, no one else listens to death metal at my school.
One time a Deathcore fan asked me to explain pigsqueals in DeathMetal (he thinks JFAC is detahmetal) and why theyre awesome.
i responded with, theyre isnt that shit in Deathmetal, theyre just poser bands who arent good enough to play deathmetal


----------



## NegaTiveXero (Feb 21, 2008)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> it's also possible to imply modes with pentatonics (which have 5 notes, obviously)



But, of course.


----------



## budda (Feb 21, 2008)

stupidest thing i've heard said about bands/artists? "X band sucks!" when it's a group that sells millions of albums and sells out arenas. if they sucked, they wouldnt be popular. it may not be your taste in music, but there's obvioulsy a million or so folks who think that y group is good.


----------



## Carrion (Feb 21, 2008)

"Punk music is the only genre of music that really needs a decent bassline, you know what I mean?"

*Showed him Atheist*

"Whatever, it just doesn't have that beat"


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 21, 2008)

budda said:


> stupidest thing i've heard said about bands/artists? "X band sucks!" when it's a group that sells millions of albums and sells out arenas. if they sucked, they wouldnt be popular. it may not be your taste in music, but there's obvioulsy a million or so folks who think that y group is good.



We have to remember that popular consensus isn't the best indicator of quality. Look who we elected for president. Twice.


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 21, 2008)

Variant said:


> A zero radius curve would be a point... which is an imaginary concept really.



And a circle with infinite radius is not imaginary?


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 21, 2008)

To be fair, Freddy T does use some vocal distortion on Sol Niger Within. I think.

Anyways, it seems like my mom thinks that anything not in 4/4 (or maybe 2/4) is like, off beat or something.

I showed her a video of Buckethead playing Nottingham Lace, and she goes, OMGWTFBBQ THIS SHIT SUCKS HE'S GOT A BUCKET ON HIS HEAD. A week later I throw in a Buckethead CD, tell her it's John Petrucci (just made up a name, basically -- Petrucci came to mind), she listens to the song twice through, and declares that John Petrucci is the best guitarist ever. I tell her it's Buckethead and she gets mad at me for tricking her.


----------



## budda (Feb 21, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> We have to remember that popular consensus isn't the best indicator of quality. Look who we elected for president. Twice.



I never said the music was necessarily quality, just well-liked by a majority of listeners compared to other music.

i dont think that all the people who like pop music think it's necessarily really great music that's done the absolute best out of all of them, but they like it and they can dance to it. so it sells.

i just chuckle whenever someone slams a big-name band that has gone on tour and possibly sold out stadiums and is at least kind of a house-hold name. evidently, a few other people like 'em.

there's toons of areas where the "does popular mean it's a top product?" thing comes into play, but that's for another thread lol


----------



## D-EJ915 (Feb 21, 2008)

bostjan said:


> People who say that bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X make repeatitive music, then say that "Crimson and Clover" was the best song evar.


I get that from my sister  then show her tabs of songs she likes which only have like 4 chord progessions for the whole song


----------



## Speedy Fingers (Feb 21, 2008)

Variant said:


> The real question here is why do people say shit like this?
> 
> I mean, really, the guy doesn't _*obviously*_ doesn't play guitar. WTF is the point of pretending you know about something that you obviously don't... _*especially*_ to the face of someone who obviously does!?
> 
> I really want to know the psychology behind this... I mean I wouldn't pretend I knew all about pancreas surgery in front of a dude with a stethoscope around his neck, so what brings _*so*_ many people who dont know shit about music or playing instruments to making comments like, "This has no rhythm" (to Opeth), or "It takes no talent to play metal" (to Death).



I think the main reason a lot of people are opinionated about music is because it's commonplace! Not many people will experience pancreas surgery and it's not hugely debateable about the best way to perform, recieve or even observe it.


----------



## DelfinoPie (Feb 21, 2008)

A guy in high school once told me that Tool were shit because all their stuff sounded the same 

Roll on two years later, he adds me on Myspace and under his favourite bands is Tool.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 21, 2008)

I gotta side with budda on this one. 

Anything that sells well and is successful I can usually see _why_ it's so successful and I'd consider that a sign of talent in some aspect. 

Is it necessarily technically difficult to play? No, but then music isn't a sport, it's an art.

Is it necessarily deep and meaningful? No, but then music is also intended to entertain.

Is it necessarily the style of music I'd usually listen to? No, but then music is about individual tastes.

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of times the person getting all the fame for the song is not the one deserving of the credit. I have a very low opinion of Britney Spears as a singer, dancer, and human being, but I have _huge_ respect for her songwriters and producers, as they pump out some catchy stuff that sounds really good.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 21, 2008)

eleven59 said:


> Is it necessarily technically difficult to play? No, but then music isn't a sport, it's an art.
> 
> Is it necessarily deep and meaningful? No, but then music is also intended to entertain.
> 
> Is it necessarily the style of music I'd usually listen to? No, but then music is about individual tastes.



I agree with all of this, however, when it comes to household talents like Spears, Simpson, etc. i'll say that in most cases, they _arent_ talented. Everyone else writes their songs, they lipsync on stage, they use serious studio tricks to even make the singer sound good ,etc. Of course, this isnt a blanket statement for ALL bands that are popular, but many times this is the case.


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

budda said:


> stupidest thing i've heard said about bands/artists? "X band sucks!" when it's a group that sells millions of albums and sells out arenas. if they sucked, they wouldnt be popular. it may not be your taste in music, but there's obvioulsy a million or so folks who think that y group is good.



Well, that all depends on your definition of "suck"... it's quite an ambiguous word as employed in such a way. As I define it, you can absolutely suck and be popular... and that transcends music. Hitler, for instance, was quite popular and filled arenas with his fans on a regular basis and he most certainly sucked.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 21, 2008)

Variant said:


> Well, that all depends on your definition of "suck"... it's quite an ambiguous word as employed in such a way. As I define it, you can absolutely suck and be popular... and that transcends music. Hitler, for instance, was quite popular and filled arenas with his fans on a regular basis and he most certainly sucked.



Thats the thing i was getting at


----------



## OzzyC (Feb 21, 2008)

Me: What kinds of music are you into?

Them: Everything.

M: Like What? Name some bands.

T: ACDC, 'Skynard, GnR, etc...

M: What about Carcass? Dying Fetus? Buddy Rich? Dimelola? Holdsworth? ...

T:
So what do you listen to?

M: Metal and especially prog and death, but I'm a fan of music in general.

T: You mean that crappy *holds hand to mouth and poorly attempts to imitate gutteral vocals* RGRGRRRRRGGGR stuff?

M: No, my music doesn't suck.

T: Alright, so what bands?

M: Opeth, Dream Theater, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Nevermore, Jag Panzer, Allan Holdsworth, Meshuggah... 

T: Is that the name of one band? 

M: Umm... no. 

T: Well I've never heard of them, they probably suck.

M: I kinda figured you wouldn't have.... and they don't. 

T: *To class* Hey, has anyone listened to any Opeth, 'cause I sure haven't... I didn't think-

Goth looking chick: I have. They're pretty good.

T:... Oh.

*Sits down and shuts up*





*A week later...*
T: Hey, um... I listened to some Opeth yesterday... and um... it was pretty good.




That summarizes many of mine into one slightly epic story.


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

Jongpil Yun said:


> And a circle with infinite radius is not imaginary?



Circle... yes... Arc... no.


----------



## Psychoface (Feb 21, 2008)

Variant said:


> Maybe he was talking about an actual dying fetus, and not the band Dying Fetus. I could see how a withered, writhing, unborn child in the fetal position expriring could be concidered "emo".



no i played him Praise The Lord and he said "this is emo crap!"


----------



## DelfinoPie (Feb 21, 2008)

Stitch said:


> I decided not to tell him that The Beatles actually had Ringo Starr's drum parts re-recorded by a professional session musician because he simply wasn't a good enough drummer for some of their releases. I think the idea of a guy with a labret piercings growling along to "Epitaph" knowing more than him about The Beatles might have just been too much for him.



, to quote John Lennon:



John Lennon said:


> (When asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world) He's not even the best drummer in The Beatles.


----------



## Xaios (Feb 21, 2008)

A guy I used to work with said that there were only 3 kinds of metal: heavy, thrash, and death. I told him repeatedly that he was a moron. After a while, I got sick of it, so I challenged him. I put on some Angra, and challenged him to lump it in with those 3, he couldn't.


----------



## Eli14 (Feb 21, 2008)

I was told by another drummer I didn't play drums because I couldn't name the type of paint-job my kit had.

Him: What kind of paint-job you got? (He apparently wasn't asking for color)

Me: Um......black?

Him: You don't have to lie.......you don't really play drums do you?

Me:  (Are you kidding me?)

He turned out to be horrible even though he claimed that he warmed up with Dream Theater's Awake album. He wondered why he got behind when he was counting in 4/4 through the whole of Voices. Him: "I'm pretty sure it changes to 3/4 somewhere in there." Me:"........indeed". Who's lying now?


----------



## that guy (Feb 21, 2008)

on french horn in the passenger seat of friends car :

security guard : hey i know what that is !

friend : really?

security guard : that theres a bassoon !

friend: yes it is *drives off laughing*


on bands that were at all state contest 

guy : you know what i have noticed ?

band director: what?

guy: all the bands that scored high have one of those big wooden thingies sticking up out of them , you should get a couple 

(they were bassooons) 
yes i know i spelled it wrong 

on severstring and eight string guitars 

friend : dude wtf do you need that many string for, its not like you can play all of them at once 

me: dude you need to go die


----------



## Variant (Feb 21, 2008)

that guy said:


> on severstring and eight string guitars
> 
> friend : dude wtf do you need that many string for, its not like you can play all of them at once



Yeah, I've heard that one before... but don't conventional guitars have... um... six strings, and well, you've essentially got four fingers (most non-guitarists don't know what a thumb-over is, and many guitars don't use them often) so... WTF kind of observation is that really?


----------



## Naren (Feb 21, 2008)

Variant said:


> Yeah, I've heard that one before... but don't conventional guitars have... um... six strings, and well, you've essentially got four fingers (most non-guitarists don't know what a thumb-over is, and many guitars don't use them often) so... WTF kind of observation is that really?



I live for those moments. 

"7 strings?! You've only got 5 fingers!!"
"And you're playing a 5-string guitar?" 
(dawning of realization on the person who made the idiotic comment)

And that whole "you can't play all those notes at once" comment about 7s and 8s, I'd say, "Yeah, and you can't play all the notes on a 6-string guitar all at once either - or a 4-string bass for that matter. In fact, even if you only have 1 string, you couldn't play all the notes at once. And, if you could, it'd sound pretty horrible."

Some people make the most inane comments. My response to the "7 strings? I can't even handle 6!" comment is usually "Then maybe you should quit." (or if I'm in a better mood, "Then maybe you should practice more, chump!")


----------



## that guy (Feb 21, 2008)

Naren said:


> I live for those moments.
> 
> "7 strings?! You've only got 5 fingers!!"
> "And you're playing a 5-string guitar?"
> ...




and then they look at you like your just being a smart ass and walk off right?

anyway, non music inclined people are hilarious


----------



## Emperoff (Feb 21, 2008)

OzzyC said:


> That summarizes many of mine into one slightly epic story.


Any story involving Opeth is automatically epic 


I've got one that a friend told me:

_Friend: Today I can't go, I have to pic a pedal I bought for the guitar

Dumb Classmate: wtf? a pedal? how do you play a guitar with pedals?

F: (laughing) Dude, you haven't noticed that when people plays guitar, sometimes sounds clean like an acoustic and sometimes it sounds distorted? They are two separate sounds that are switched by a pedal

D: Are you kidding me? I thought that was made hitting the strings very hard!!!_


The most shocking thing of the story is that his sister and his father are musicians


----------



## OzzyC (Feb 21, 2008)

Emperoff said:


> Any story involving Opeth is automatically epic



Except when it involves not seeing them when it would be totally possible, but just need someone to go with you.


----------



## Emperoff (Feb 22, 2008)

OzzyC said:


> Except when it involves not seeing them when it would be totally possible, but just need someone to go with you.



I feel your pain bro, they visit a fuckload of european countries in their summer tour EXCEPT Spain 



I just remember a pretty good one from a friend's father:

_Friend's Father: The old Marshall I have sounds awesome
Me: You should check out the new amp I've just got
FF: What brand is it?
Me: Peavey
FF: Dunno... It's a tube amp?
Me: Yeah
FF: Tube amps are nice, they sound very clean, but they're so powerful that you can't make them distort without a pedal 
Me: I assure you can
FF: Nah, that's the drawback of tube amps, they're so clean that you can't make them distort without a pedal.
Me: Ok, come later to the rehearsal place and check it out, do you?

---------Later----------

FF: (Drunk) Hey, show me that amp!
Me: Sure! (I hit a drop A chord and let it ring...)
FF: ...
Me: Oh, the gain was just at 2... Let's turn it to... 5 (I play some heavy muted stuff)
FF: ......
(I play some wylde-style solos)
FF: ......... (with a stupid face mix of shocked and amazed) Fuck, what a sound!_


He stopped talking shit concerning tube amps


----------



## OzzyC (Feb 22, 2008)

Emperoff said:


> I feel your pain bro, they visit a fuckload of european countries in their summer tour EXCEPT Spain



Yeah, DT, Opeth, BtBaM, and 3- in May. It's a three hour drive to where it will be, and it would be 2 AM or later before I ever got home from it... I don't think that'd fly too well with my parents seeing as I'm only 16. I tried to get a friend of mine to join me (He'll be 21), but he wasn't up for the trip.


----------



## El Caco (Feb 22, 2008)

Jongpil Yun said:


> To be fair, Freddy T does use some vocal distortion on Sol Niger Within. I think.
> 
> Anyways, it seems like my mom thinks that anything not in 4/4 (or maybe 2/4) is like, off beat or something.
> 
> I showed her a video of Buckethead playing Nottingham Lace, and she goes, OMGWTFBBQ THIS SHIT SUCKS HE'S GOT A BUCKET ON HIS HEAD. A week later I throw in a Buckethead CD, tell her it's John Petrucci (just made up a name, basically -- Petrucci came to mind), she listens to the song twice through, and declares that John Petrucci is the best guitarist ever. I tell her it's Buckethead and she gets mad at me for tricking her.



I did a similar thing to my Dad when I was a young teen. I had a GnR's CD in and he kept complaining about how bad they are and how it is not music so I told him I would put something else on, I put on Patience to which he replied "this is much better, you should listen to this band all the time" 

In his defence he loved my Passion and Warfare CD.


----------



## ElRay (Feb 22, 2008)

Adding another ex-girlfriend comment: Theme albums automatically suck compared to albums that are just a collection of songs because you have to write songs that fit the theme and you can't just pick you best songs.


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 22, 2008)

OzzyC said:


> M: Opeth, Dream Theater, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Nevermore, Jag Panzer, Allan Holdsworth, Meshuggah...
> 
> T: Is that the name of one band?



Opeth Dream Theater Kamelot Iced Earth Nevermore Jag Panzer Allan Holdsworth Meshuggah is the best fucking band ever.  

Fuck, that's not only the best band name ever, that's the best album title and song list ever.



Variant said:


> Circle... yes... Arc... no.


Touche.

On the other hand, when we say a curve has a certain radius, we mean that the circle approximating it around a point has that radius.

PEDANTRY MAN, SORTIE!


----------



## OzzyC (Feb 22, 2008)

Jongpil Yun said:


> Opeth Dream Theater Kamelot Iced Earth Nevermore Jag Panzer Allan Holdsworth Meshuggah is the best fucking band ever.
> 
> Fuck, that's not only the best band name ever, that's the best album title and song list ever.





That's what I'm naming my kid



Voice in my head said:


> What if it's a girl?


Then I'll name it Opeth Dream Theater Kamelot Iced Earth Nevermore Jag Panzer Allen Holdsworth Meshuggina


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 22, 2008)

OzzyC said:


> Then I'll name it Opeth Dream Theater Kamelot Iced Earth Nevermore Jag Panzer Allen Holdsworth Meshuggina





Doesn't quite work with that ending. People will just call her vagina. I know I would.


----------



## Naren (Feb 22, 2008)

And Ozzy hasn't even gotten to the middle name for his child. And, after all that, he's gonna throw his family name on the end.



Jongpil Yun said:


> Doesn't quite work with that ending. People will just call her vagina. I know I would.



 Me too. I'd be like, "Hey, Vagina-uh, I, uh, mean Meshuggina."


----------



## OzzyC (Feb 22, 2008)

We'll just have her use an abbreviation.

ODTKIENJPAHM MOFGTARLN C







(Mother of Friggin' God That's a Really Long Name will, of course, be her middle name.)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 22, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> I agree with all of this, however, when it comes to household talents like Spears, Simpson, etc. i'll say that in most cases, they _arent_ talented. Everyone else writes their songs, they lipsync on stage, they use serious studio tricks to even make the singer sound good ,etc. Of course, this isnt a blanket statement for ALL bands that are popular, but many times this is the case.



Hey! no Simpson bashing, she really is a great singer, it's just that the company wont let her sing as good as she can because "your fans can't sing along to it when you sing like that".


----------



## harkonnen8 (Feb 22, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Hey! no Simpson bashing, she really is a great singer, it's just that the company wont let her sing as good as she can because "your fans can't sing along to it when you sing like that".



 can we just talk about more guitar related stuff ?


----------



## Mattayus (Feb 22, 2008)

Me: Dude can you turn that shit off? it's makin me ill
Gay guy i used to work with: But matt, it's britney! she's so talented!

*many minutes of ranting and arguing later*

Me: Look dude i've said my piece, can we just turn it off? Im runnin the prep room today, so technically i control the stereo
Guy: Fine.........................




















.... but she must be talented, just look how famous she is!!!! Who's ever HEARD of Pantera!?

Me: ... get out.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 22, 2008)

harkonnen8 said:


> can we just talk about more guitar related stuff ?



Read the topic.


----------



## Mr. S (Feb 22, 2008)

i seem to remember a rather irritating experience when waiting in line in a games shop, i pointed out some karaoke game and said to my mate jokingly _'maybe you should get that man, it looks more your kind of thing'_ and i could see the kid infront of me turn ever so slightly as if he wanted to get in on the conversation, of course my big mistake was to say _'how the hell does it work? does it recognise the pitch and give you points from that?'_ to which my mate replied _'yeah its a bit like those dancing games and guitar hero but its all vocals'_ cue my generic guitar hero response, _'man i fucking hate that game, its so stupid why not just play a real guitar its way more fun and satisfying'_ obviously the kid in front cant hold it in any longer and interjects _'ACTUALLY its not stupid even herman li isnt very good at playing his own songs on there so you have to be really good at it'_ to which i retorted _'dude thats probably because heman li dosent spend all his time playing crappy computer games and concentrates on playing guitar, but either way herman li is fucking sloppy as fuck dude'_

yeah im an anti social bastard 

another interesting one was a dude i used to work with any time id be listening to music with shred type solos, Dream Theater, Gilbert and the like he'd always go 'what are they doing? it sounds like they're all having a race!'


----------



## Mattayus (Feb 22, 2008)

man dont get me started on guitar hero. i know it's a bit off topic but i was on my way round a friend's house with another friend. my friend phoned the dude to let him know we were on our way and i could here him saying "oh so how many of u are there? sweet, what u guys up to? guitar hero? AWESOME man i've got Matt with me he's gonna kick ALL your asses!!"
i was like man... i'm a guitarist, but a) i've never played guitar hero, and b) i'm gonna suck at it because i play a real guitar so i'll get confused!!!

sure enough i had a go, and i was terrible.


----------



## Naren (Feb 22, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> man dont get me started on guitar hero. i know it's a bit off topic but i was on my way round a friend's house with another friend. my friend phoned the dude to let him know we were on our way and i could here him saying "oh so how many of u are there? sweet, what u guys up to? guitar hero? AWESOME man i've got Matt with me he's gonna kick ALL your asses!!"
> i was like man... i'm a guitarist, but a) i've never played guitar hero, and b) i'm gonna suck at it because i play a real guitar so i'll get confused!!!
> 
> sure enough i had a go, and i was terrible.



It doesn't annoy me that Guitar Hero is nothing at all like playing guitar. It's not a guitar training program. It's a game. And it's actually kinda fun. Like a guitar version of Dance Dance Revolution or those arcade drum games.

But what does annoy me is the people who are so proud of being able to score well in Guitar Hero and they act like they can play guitar really well because of it. Then, while they're acting like they're musical experts, if you play anything impressive on the guitar, they act just like, "Pffheh! I can do that on Guitar Hero, dude! I can play on Guitar Hero a lot better than that!" and the scary thing is that they're serious. Then, if you try it and you're not good at guitar hero, they assume that that's proof that you suck at guitar. 

It shows a complete ignorance about the nature of music. I'm not bashing Guitar Hero, because I actually enjoyed playing through Guitar Hero II when my brother's friend left it at our house (started a new game on "normal"/"medium" difficulty and beat the game by the time he got back) and my brother's friend didn't have those bizarre ideas about the game about guitars, but I've met a lot of people who do.


----------



## Kotex (Feb 22, 2008)

+1 to that.


----------



## halsinden (Feb 22, 2008)

sitting comfortably?

this last decembers UK tour with leech woman, i was with them as guest guitarist. if you dont know them, theyre pure, grass roots discomfort-addicted industrial noise basically, they influenced a stupid amount of bands from the underground up. 

we went to headline this all-dayer in leeds that had a few acts i recognised on the bill. throughout the course of the day, beyond the load-in, it dawned on me that it was predominantly an electro-goth bill masquerading as industrial punk (theyre a cunning lot, these goths. must be the cloaks). to clarify, this means essentially a lot of fairly tired 30+ year olds playing extremely fatigued chord progressions through DId zoom pedals over casio-tone drums & synth lines, typically with a rather bitter chap at the front croaking about spreading his disease etc. its not that im bitter, its just that its a little too regressive and referential for my liking.

we came on, and shock ensued. a visible step backwards from the throng that had gathered, in some cases there even seemed to be a few offended looks in those watching which obviously couldnt have pleased alex more (not my ethos. i prefer to please people, even if it means i catch something off them).

whilst i was packing away, this waiflike cyber-goth practically ran up to me, almost bouncing with excitement. white skintight cyberdog t-shirt, goggles, the lot


teletubby - hey man, that was intense

me - thanks mate, nice one

teletubby - i really liked it. one thing i have to say though

me - (here we go) - oh right?

teletubby - youre not industrial

me - are we not?

teletubby - no man, not at all. that was thrash metal.

me - im sorry?

teletubby - seriously man, that was thrash metal, i dont know why you were billed as industrial, and believe me, i know my thrash, i have a huge record collection

me - really?

teletubby - oh yeah, i mean, like, anthrax, sacred reich, all that - your music was just pure thrash

me - i hadnt realised

H


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Feb 22, 2008)

i just sold my guitar hero, and the funds put the final payment on my 5150 :epicsatisfactionhump:


----------



## Universalis (Feb 22, 2008)

"I really love Dream Theater too, they are so much into creativity... (...) ...I dig Frank Gambale too, he developed an inspiring guitar picking... (...) ...PERSONALLY I THINK THAT THE BEST COMPOSER EVER BORN ON EARTH IS JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE. OH WHAT A MUSICIAN"

You just can't imagine how did I looked at the guy when I realized he mixed up Dream Theater, Frank Gambale and JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE in the same sentence.


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 22, 2008)

Emperoff said:


> Any story involving Opeth is automatically epic
> 
> 
> I've got one that a friend told me:
> ...


Actually, with the guitar volume and pick control you can on some amps go from clean all the way to distorted by turning up the volume and hitting harder, so it's not too far off the mark!


----------



## lucasreis (Feb 22, 2008)

Naren said:


> It doesn't annoy me that Guitar Hero is nothing at all like playing guitar. It's not a guitar training program. It's a game. And it's actually kinda fun. Like a guitar version of Dance Dance Revolution or those arcade drum games.
> 
> But what does annoy me is the people who are so proud of being able to score well in Guitar Hero and they act like they can play guitar really well because of it. Then, while they're acting like they're musical experts, if you play anything impressive on the guitar, they act just like, "Pffheh! I can do that on Guitar Hero, dude! I can play on Guitar Hero a lot better than that!" and the scary thing is that they're serious. Then, if you try it and you're not good at guitar hero, they assume that that's proof that you suck at guitar.
> 
> It shows a complete ignorance about the nature of music. I'm not bashing Guitar Hero, because I actually enjoyed playing through Guitar Hero II when my brother's friend left it at our house (started a new game on "normal"/"medium" difficulty and beat the game by the time he got back) and my brother's friend didn't have those bizarre ideas about the game about guitars, but I've met a lot of people who do.



You sait it all. Everything I wanted to say about Guitar Hero is said above. Last week when I was working on the Anime Fest I saw some guys playing GH3 ridiculously fast and skilled. While I love the game, and I don´t think it´s a waste of time, even for guitarists (it´s a friggin game, supposed to be FUN, so don´t hate on it because it´s not real guitar playing guys, it´s really fun to play, I can assure you, I even have all of the PS2 versions myself) but I do hate the guys from the "OMFG-MEH-CAN-PLAY-DRAGONFORCE-ON-EXPERT-ME-PWNS-ALL-ME-TEH-SHREDDER" kinda of shit. This is fuckin´ridiculous I must say. I even have some friends who bash me because I don´t play on expert, they are like "dude, hard is soooo easy" and they can´t even play fuckin Smoke on the Water on the guitar. Guitar Hero was a good idea but some of the waste of meat who plays it is really disgusting.


----------



## Stitch (Feb 22, 2008)

Summers45 said:


> I have an ex who, when I was with her, said Dream Theater's music was shite because the singing took too long to come in.



I'd be inclined to agree with her! 

I'd like to quote myself from when I was in the pub and rather drunk when some 80's prog nonsense came on and I exclaimed very loudly "oh hurry up and finish the intro! Then the song will be over faster!"

IN such an alternative pub I'm surprised how many people laughed and didn't try to hurt me. 



CatPancakes said:


> One time a Deathcore fan asked me to explain pigsqueals in DeathMetal (he thinks JFAC is detahmetal) and why theyre awesome.
> i responded with, theyre isnt that shit in Deathmetal, theyre just poser bands who arent good enough to play deathmetal



Whatever dude. If you had half the vocal skill that Jonny Davy has then I would respect you for that opinion, but you quite evidently don't. While I'll admit that their Demo EP did have core-ish elements the newest release Genesis is one of the most well-recorded, well-written and well-executed steps in death metal, and technically impressive.



Naren said:


> Some people make the most inane comments. My response to the "7 strings? I can't even handle 6!" comment is usually "Then maybe you should quit." (or if I'm in a better mood, "Then maybe you should practice more, chump!")





I get sick of hearing that.



Jongpil Yun said:


> Doesn't quite work with that ending. People will just call her vagina. I know I would.





ZING!



Naren said:


> But what does annoy me is the people who are so proud of being able to score well in Guitar Hero and they act like they can play guitar really well because of it. Then, while they're acting like they're musical experts, if you play anything impressive on the guitar, they act just like, "Pffheh! I can do that on Guitar Hero, dude! I can play on Guitar Hero a lot better than that!" and the scary thing is that they're serious. Then, if you try it and you're not good at guitar hero, they assume that that's proof that you suck at guitar.



I get that so much and I hate it. People feel so proud that they can play it on guitar hero using only 5 buttons and one little trigger and somehow think they are better than you. The amount of motor control required for Guitar Hero is large, but its a completely different set of movements from traditional guitar so for anyone to expect the two be similar is completely unreasonable.

And at the end of the day, sure, you can sweep pick on GH. Great. But I can play an acoustic at a party or when camping with friends. And we can all sing along and have a great time.

There aren't too many PS2's and TV screens out in the woods, I think.



Thrashmanzac said:


> i just sold my guitar hero, and the funds put the final payment on my 5150 :epicsatisfactionhump:



Thats the most epic win of this thread! Congrats man!


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 22, 2008)

"you play guitar, why do you suck at guitar hero?"

In fact anything comparing my guitar ability to not doing well at guitar hero for that matter, or people that think guitar hero brilliance means they can play guitar or that it should be easy...


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 22, 2008)

Stitch said:


> I get that so much and I hate it. People feel so proud that they can play it on guitar hero using only 5 buttons and one little trigger and somehow think they are better than you. The amount of motor control required for Guitar Hero is large, but its a completely different set of movements from traditional guitar so for anyone to expect the two be similar is completely unreasonable.
> 
> And at the end of the day, sure, you can sweep pick on GH. Great. But I can play an acoustic at a party or when camping with friends. And we can all sing along and have a great time.
> 
> There aren't too many PS2's and TV screens out in the woods, I think.


Man, as stated I hate this. 5 buttons, no strings, no bends, no tapping, no sweeping, no slides, no phrasing, not even playing all the notes and then think you can ace me at guitar? Get fucked.

I mean, if Igave them a guitar, they suck, within a year they'd still not be terribly good at it, still not be able to write a song and be imprecise, have weak picking etc

This REALLY annoys me as you can tell. Plus, I mean, a plastic toy with some push buttons? Man, it's one step up from the device they were trying to sell a decade ago where you could rock it back and forth and it played a major or a minor chord by fretting the strings for you and all you had to do was press it in.


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 22, 2008)

...and another thing, people looking at fast picking thinking it's easy, well... There's one guy I know who's having to learn it, and he's a good player, really fast at solo's etc, but is struggling with picking at speed (and not just go fast, but syncing with kicks and keeping it tight)

and another dig at guitar hero fuckwits, playing a chord on guitar hero is the equivalent of me fretting two notes on the same string, so go stick that plastic piece of turd up your chocolate love tunnel...


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 22, 2008)

Just remembered another...

A guy at school insisiting that 'dark metal' was heavier than black or death metal, and subsequently failing to name any bands from those genres when asked.


----------



## halsinden (Feb 22, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> Just remembered another...
> 
> A guy at school insisiting that 'dark metal' was heavier than black or death metal, and subsequently failing to name any bands from those genres when asked.



man, dark metal? fuck, that takes me back.

didn't the dude from bethlehem finally top himself or something? _great_ interview with him in terrorizer one time. "it's no comment on my manhood to cry, if you'd been through what i have..." and this was _so_ far before emo.

H


----------



## Mattayus (Feb 22, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> Just remembered another...
> 
> A guy at school insisiting that 'dark metal' was heavier than black or death metal, and subsequently failing to name any bands from those genres when asked.



that reminds me of another similar thing. it was a friend of a friend who once said "you're not a real goth unless you listen to black label society!".

unfortunately i wasn't there to take his throat out with a spoon, i was only told about it by a friend at a later date. thing is, there's ppl like this everywhere, horrible try-hard wannabes who go around calling anyone who's not wearing black eye-liner a "trendy". they're worse than chavs man, i swear, at least chavs are direct with their initiative. they give normal metal heads such a bad name, i get all sorts of shit when talking to people thanks to these little twats. they get it all so very wrong.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 22, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> that reminds me of another similar thing. it was a friend of a friend who once said "you're not a real goth unless you listen to black label society!".
> 
> unfortunately i wasn't there to take his throat out with a spoon, i was only told about it by a friend at a later date. thing is, there's ppl like this everywhere, horrible try-hard wannabes who go around calling anyone who's not wearing black eye-liner a "trendy". they're worse than chavs man, i swear, at least chavs are direct with their initiative. they give normal metal heads such a bad name, i get all sorts of shit when talking to people thanks to these little twats. they get it all so very wrong.



I remember reading the 'personal' section in Metal Hammer about 7 years ago and seeing one ad that went 'goth girl aged 14 into Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit'...


----------



## halsinden (Feb 22, 2008)

living in camden, we do get a shit-load of mini-metallers desperate to soak up some cred in their stripy long gloves, coke bottle spectacles and short mousy hair. i must just say for the record though, that i love these little ankle vampires, as they&#8217;re tomorrow&#8217;s metal fans and i *fucking LOVE THE CHILDREN* _jesus_, they just&#8230;

um&#8230;

but yeah, you do hear some corkers round where i live on the weekends. arguments about which cradle album was first, whether the singer from trivium&#8217;s hair is actually classed as long now, even down to the classic &#8220;oh my god man, seriously, they&#8217;re called napalm death, it was _so_ heavy&#8230;&#8221; i find myself thinking that must be great, with all that ahead of you. i&#8217;d love to be there when the self same kid gets played origin or something and loses control of the left side of his body.

H


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 22, 2008)

halsinden said:


> man, dark metal? fuck, that takes me back.
> 
> didn't the dude from bethlehem finally top himself or something? _great_ interview with him in terrorizer one time. "it's no comment on my manhood to cry, if you'd been through what i have..." and this was _so_ far before emo.
> 
> H



Wasn't there a photo of someone hanging themselves that might have been him, but was never clarified for sure either way?


----------



## halsinden (Feb 22, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> Wasn't there a photo of someone hanging themselves that might have been him, but was never clarified for sure either way?



hahaha, and all his mates are like - "i dunno, i couldn't tell if it was him, i was too busy looking at the floor... staring... into... my own soul..."

H


----------



## awesomeargos (Feb 22, 2008)

She is correct C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 -not "8" it is still c after all if you count it as 8 than D above 2 is 9 that only happens when you are building chords. yes the 12 tone scale is really the 11 tone scale i am nit picking but this is the place for that sort of thing right?

So i heard a good one about some idiot saying he could play anything that Richie Blackmore could. If the fool said that in front of me i would have said "Really? Wow!.."Can you play it first?".


----------



## thedonutman (Feb 22, 2008)

Whenever guys in my year want to take the piss out of my friends and I for our music tastes, they always should "RAWK RAWK RAWK!!!!!!"

Seriously, would you consider Opeth, DT, Nevermore, Meshuggah etc "Rock"?


----------



## Luan (Feb 22, 2008)

My dad still thinks that Vai can play faster than Petrucci 

The brother of my ex said that the acoustic guitar of Staind's Otherside live version weren't out of tune, he was just playing chords I didn't expect.


----------



## MorbidTravis (Feb 22, 2008)

EVH is better than MAB


----------



## Luan (Feb 22, 2008)

MorbidTravis said:


> EVH is better than MAB



As a composer, showman, and other things, IMO yes, he is.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 22, 2008)

awesomeargos said:


> She is correct C D E F G A B C
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 -not "8" it is still c after all if you count it as 8 than D above 2 is 9 that only happens when you are building chords. yes the 12 tone scale is really the 11 tone scale i am nit picking but this is the place for that sort of thing right?
> 
> So i heard a good one about some idiot saying he could play anything that Richie Blackmore could. If the fool said that in front of me i would have said "Really? Wow!.."Can you play it first?".



A Bb B C, Db D Eb E, F Gb G Ab

I count twelve notes.

Or with sharps

A A# B C, C# D D# E, F F# G G#


----------



## T_money419 (Feb 22, 2008)

I went on to stormfront one time out of curiosity and argued with a bunch of skinheads who insisted that black people had no influence on heavy metal music. Chuck Berry? Hendrix? Gotta know your roots...


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 22, 2008)

T_money419 said:


> I went on to stormfront one time out of curiosity and argued with a bunch of skinheads who insisted that black people had no influence on heavy metal music. Chuck Berry? Hendrix? Gotta know your roots...



Chuck Berry? Hendrix?

How about Mike motherfucking Smith and Terrence Hobbs? Mike pretty much pioneered the Blast Beat in metal.


----------



## MorbidTravis (Feb 22, 2008)

people arguing about a scale


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 22, 2008)

Jongpil Yun said:


> Chuck Berry? Hendrix?
> 
> How about Mike motherfucking Smith and Terrence Hobbs?



Plus motherfucking One.


----------



## MorbidTravis (Feb 22, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> Plus motherfucking One.



+2, because the fact that there arent many african americans in death metal bands let alone innovators in death metal


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 22, 2008)

MorbidTravis said:


> +2, because the fact that there arent many african americans in death metal bands let alone innovators in death metal



I can think of a few other bands that have black dudes in them. Coincidentally, they all kick ass.


----------



## Mastodon (Feb 22, 2008)

Before I went to work today my Genghis Tron Board Up the House package had arrived.

I spent 70 dollars at a local mom and pop cd store last week, and have bought a lot of cd packages lately, so when this one came today her response to me was,

"Stop buying this shit, you need to spend your money on better things. Seriously grow up and stop buying this stuff"

I just got into Art Institute of Washington's Audio Engineering program, (which she is now in support of me doing) so...how would it be logical for me to stop buying cd's?


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 22, 2008)

Mastodon said:


> Before I went to work today my Genghis Tron Board Up the House package had arrived.
> 
> I spent 70 dollars at a local mom and pop cd store last week, and have bought a lot of cd packages lately, so when this one came today her response to me was,
> 
> ...



Yeah, never stop buying CDs...unless you switch exclusively to vinyl. Even then, keep listening to CDs for reference as well.


----------



## MetalJordan (Feb 23, 2008)

distressed_romeo said:


> I once flicked through this retarded 'dummy's guide to Goth' book in Waterstones, and amongst all the tedious cliches and stale jokes, there was a 'music goths like' list that included, amongst others, those well-known staples of gothic music, Korn, Papa Roach, Iron Maiden and Dark Funeral...
> 
> *DR also hates people who assume goth and metal are the same thing...
> 
> ...


WTF...Punk? Heavy?...FUCK NO



lucasreis said:


> A friend of mine who listens to Blind Guardian claims his favorite type of metal is Industrial
> 
> And my ex-girlfriend´s cousin. He used to tell me how he loved Black Metal bands such as Biohazard, Korn and Soulfly.


Wow what a dumb ass


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Feb 23, 2008)

a friend while listening to are you dead yet by cob.
"they are so, like, neoclassical".


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

Thrashmanzac said:


> a friend while listening to are you dead yet by cob.
> "they are so, like, neoclassical".



Yeah, they were. On something wild and Hatebreeder.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Feb 23, 2008)

yeah but are you dead yet...
i agree there old stuff is but he was stressing there new stuff is..
but hey, i could be wrong, its happend once before.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

Nah, are you dead yet was about as neo classical as yngwie is nu metal.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Feb 23, 2008)

oh shit, that made me laugh so hard! 
+1


----------



## Naren (Feb 23, 2008)

Mastodon said:


> Before I went to work today my Genghis Tron Board Up the House package had arrived.
> 
> I spent 70 dollars at a local mom and pop cd store last week, and have bought a lot of cd packages lately, so when this one came today her response to me was,
> 
> ...



I've had people say stuff like "Stop wasting your time on video games" or "Stop wasting your time on that racket" (metal) and on and on. My response was, "How is entertainment a waste of time? How is art a waste of time? What would you prefer me to spend my time on?" and many of the times they couldn't respond. When they have responded, it was something like, "Something that betters yourself" and I replied, "Well, then, I'm not wasting my time with this, am I?" One time a guy responded with a bunch of things like math, accounting, science, etc. I said, "Dude, I have absolutely no interest in any of those things. If I was forced to spend my free time after I've already graduated from college studying accounting and math, I'd probably end up killing myself." He didn't have a response for that.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 23, 2008)

Naren said:


> I've had people say stuff like "Stop wasting your time on video games" or "Stop wasting your time on that racket" (metal) and on and on. My response was, "How is entertainment a waste of time? How is art a waste of time? What would you prefer me to spend my time on?" and many of the times they couldn't respond. When they have responded, it was something like, "Something that betters yourself" and I replied, "Well, then, I'm not wasting my time with this, am I?" One time a guy responded with a bunch of things like math, accounting, science, etc. I said, "Dude, I have absolutely no interest in any of those things. If I was forced to spend my free time after I've already graduated from college studying accounting and math, I'd probably end up killing myself." He didn't have a response for that.



The stupidest example of comments like that that I've heard personally was when my brother and I were taking a taxi in the village our parents live in and my brother was dumb enough to mention that we were both students at the time (I avoided making conversation because it was obvious about 20 seconds in that the guy was an in-bred moron) and he launched into a long lecture about how artists and musicians contribute nothing to society but at least with a a degree in English I could be a teacher.
It's especially amusing listening to someone who's been doing the same job, in the same backward village for 40+ years, and who I doubt has ever been to a concert, museum or gallery in his life, offering you career and lifestyle advice like this...


----------



## DelfinoPie (Feb 23, 2008)

"Oh man, have you heard Bob Dylan's cover of RATM's 'Maggie's Farm'?"


----------



## Michael (Feb 23, 2008)

Sitting in Health & Human Development last year and a dude in my class was listening to Job For a Cowboy and a girl was complaining about it or something. Somewhere in the conversation he says, "It's grindcore. It's all on a drum machine. No one can really play that fast."

*sigh*


----------



## Michael (Feb 23, 2008)

He also listened to Dream Evil's The Book of Heavy Metal (song) and the girl that was complaining about JFAC called it crap and just laughed at it as if it's some kind of joke-song/band.

Stupid, close-minded bitch.


----------



## Aberak (Feb 23, 2008)

Me Talking to a friend (who is a girl) about saving up for an ENGL Invader.

Her: So when are you and David (asmegin_slayer) going to start playing shows?

Me: Hopefully later this year, we both have some stuff we have to get first on top of finishing writing everything.

Her: Like what?

Me: Well I am saving up for this really badass amp but it is expensive as hell about $3,000 dollars.

Her: Wow isn't there anything else that you could get for cheaper?

Me: Ya, but this is by far the best in my opinion. It's like when you go shopping, you buy quality stuff you don't get crap do you.

Her: You know I could go out and buy a really expensive brand name purse and spend X amount of dollars or I could get a knock off and spend half that much and no one would know the difference. You should get a cheaper one no one will know the difference, it's just an amp how important is it really.

Me: (Blank stare of disgust)


----------



## stubhead (Feb 23, 2008)

Make sure you get an amp that matches your shoes....


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 23, 2008)

For Christmas I gave my friend Kelley a Dream Theater CD. IT was "Scenes from a Memory". She was like, "Why's there one song with like 30 seconds of static at the end of it? That's so random." I told her that it was the end of a concept album. She didn't understand. I told her that you're supposed to listen to entire ALBUMS, not songs. She just didn't understand. She had a Pink Floyd shirt on, so I asked her if she liked Pink Floyd. She said "yes", to which I replied you've never REALLY listened to them have you?

Now, she's one of the best musicians I know. Pretty much a virtuoso on the trumpet and also very good at piano. She even loves Hiromi Uehara! But it always saddens me when people don't know how to listen to albums, especially when it's progressive or a concept album.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

I agree 100%, to write a song that is loved by millions takes a talent, it may not be the most difficult, but it takes talent.



eleven59 said:


> I gotta side with budda on this one.
> 
> Anything that sells well and is successful I can usually see _why_ it's so successful and I'd consider that a sign of talent in some aspect.
> 
> ...



I so disagree, Yes pop stars will lipsync live, but hey i want to see you get your ass up there, dance like crazy and still be able to sing, most people, including pop stars will be out of breath, makes it hard to sing.

Pop stars, or pop in general is more about putting on a glamorous show, so sometimes you have to do things like lip sync.

Very rarely does any of the Main pop singers use studio tricks, maybe some fly by night one hit wonder, but the real ones stay big dont.



Metal Ken said:


> I agree with all of this, however, when it comes to household talents like Spears, Simpson, etc. i'll say that in most cases, they _arent_ talented. Everyone else writes their songs, they lipsync on stage, they use serious studio tricks to even make the singer sound good ,etc. Of course, this isnt a blanket statement for ALL bands that are popular, but many times this is the case.



Now that is like comparing apples to oranges, first off large majority of people that vote are older non musicans, where mostly youth makes up what makes music popular.

Second when voting for a president you have 2 or 3 choices, mean while there countless number of bands out there to choose from.

Your statment is pointless and said out of desperation trying to justify your narrow minded thoughts.



Metal Ken said:


> We have to remember that popular consensus isn't the best indicator of quality. Look who we elected for president. Twice.


----------



## Mattayus (Feb 23, 2008)

my childhood friend's gran was spanish, didn't really know an awful lot about the modern world tbh haha. we were in his kitchen once and i heard her say to him "why don't you get a spanish guitar? instead of always playing that electrical thing, u'll never learn anything that way" implying that it plays itself, due to the fact that it's 'electric'.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Now that is like comparing apples to oranges, first off large majority of people that vote are older non musicans, where mostly youth makes up what makes music popular.
> 
> Second when voting for a president you have 2 or 3 choices, mean while there countless number of bands out there to choose from.
> 
> Your statment is pointless and said out of desperation trying to justify your narrow minded thoughts.



Narrow minded? What the fuck is your problem? I listen to all kinds of shit. Fuck you. 
And what does presidential candidates have to do with this? Maybe it wasn't the best analogy. Look at popular religion instead. 
Look at Ashlee Simpson on Saturday night live. She got got caught lipsyncing and blamed it on her band for playing the wrong song. Then she made up excuses saying she was sick.


----------



## Holy Katana (Feb 23, 2008)

Aberak said:


> Me Talking to a friend (who is a girl) about saving up for an ENGL Invader.
> 
> Her: So when are you and David (asmegin_slayer) going to start playing shows?
> 
> ...



Of course, her argument fails because an amp is a piece of electronic equipment, not a bag to carry shit in. Plus, counterfeit ENGLs don't exist, to my knowledge. Do counterfeit amps in general even exist?


----------



## Mastodon (Feb 23, 2008)

Lucky Seven said:


> For Christmas I gave my friend Kelley a Dream Theater CD. IT was "Scenes from a Memory". She was like, "Why's there one song with like 30 seconds of static at the end of it? That's so random." I told her that it was the end of a concept album. She didn't understand. I told her that you're supposed to listen to entire ALBUMS, not songs. She just didn't understand. She had a Pink Floyd shirt on, so I asked her if she liked Pink Floyd. She said "yes", to which I replied you've never REALLY listened to them have you?
> 
> Now, she's one of the best musicians I know. Pretty much a virtuoso on the trumpet and also very good at piano. She even loves Hiromi Uehara! But it always saddens me when people don't know how to listen to albums, especially when it's progressive or a concept album.



On a related note to this, a peeve of mine is when you're riding with someone and they can't listen to a full song all the way through.

After a while you're like "What the fuck are you doing? Can we just listen to one song?" 

"Well I only like the intro part"

For some reason, this generally seems to be more prevalent in females.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

Anyone that thinks any music is sub par to there own, or puts down any type of music is narrow minded. A certain style may not be what you like, or even care to listen too, but by no means does it make it any less important.

As to the president thing, you were the one that said. *"We have to remember that popular consensus isn't the best indicator of quality. Look who we elected for president. Twice." *when trying to make a point that the majority of people do not have the best taste or make the wrong choice.

And yes, she was having a throat issue and had to lip sync, but I have also seen her really sing and sound great, not everyone is always perfect or can perform 100%, would have rather had her up there sounding like shit?



Metal Ken said:


> Narrow minded? What the fuck is your problem? I listen to all kinds of shit. Fuck you.
> And what does presidential candidates have to do with this? Maybe it wasn't the best analogy. Look at popular religion instead.
> Look at Ashlee Simpson on Saturday night live. She got got caught lipsyncing and blamed it on her band for playing the wrong song. Then she made up excuses saying she was sick.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Anyone that thinks any music is sub par to there own,



Now that's just ricockulous. That statement totally implies that there is universal quality to all music.

I call bullshit.

There's tons of music that's "sub par." Now, if you're talking ONLY stylistically, then I can _more_ agree with you (although I can't for the life of me find much quality to modern hip hop. Rims? Bitches? What-the-fuck-ever. ). 

Putting down a whole genre simply because one is unfamiliar with it, or doesn't appreciate its nuances, is kinda narrow-minded, I agree. But that doesn't mean all music is equal, or that all artists are equally valid.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Anyone that thinks any music is sub par to there own, or puts down any type of music is narrow minded. A certain style may not be what you like, or even care to listen too, but by no means does it make it any less important.



Aside from a couple of specific examples, When did i put down any genre of music or artists? I realize pop music is not what i like. There's a lot of fucking talented people in it. I'll even name a few:
Kylie Minogue. Alicia Keys. John Mayer. I Dont like their music, but god damned if they're not talented.



siggy14 said:


> As to the president thing, you were the one that said. *"We have to remember that popular consensus isn't the best indicator of quality. Look who we elected for president. Twice." *when trying to make a point that the majority of people do not have the best taste or make the wrong choice.



The point i was trying to get at is just because a bunch of people like it doesnt indicate any inherent quality to it -- it just indicates its popular. Lots of people buy bottom of the barrel products, cause of the price. It doesnt make them GOOD but it makes them popular products. Look at McDonalds. Certainly not quality food. BUT they sell enough to have 2 stores in every square mile of the damn country.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

Your statments alone pretty much show your content for certain artists with out actually knowing the full backround.

Once again, big difference between comparing music to mcdonalds or anything else. Music is a very personal thing, where a quick stop at mcdonalds because you are to lazy too cook is another.

Trust me, you are talking to a guy here that cant stand probaly 90% of the music that most people on this board listens too, however I would never put it down or say it is sub par to what i listen too or play. To each there own, just have enough respect to not stomp over some one else's music.



Metal Ken said:


> Aside from a couple of specific examples, When did i put down any genre of music or artists? I realize pop music is not what i like. There's a lot of fucking talented people in it. I'll even name a few:
> Kylie Minogue. Alicia Keys. John Mayer. I Dont like their music, but god damned if they're not talented.
> 
> 
> ...



By the way, i am one of noodles good friends, he says you are a good guy i shouldnt mess with you to much. Just so you know Dave and I have these debates all the time. Dont take it to personal, I am just the defender of all music, if someone else were to say something negative, I would be on them too.



Metal Ken said:


> Aside from a couple of specific examples, When did i put down any genre of music or artists? I realize pop music is not what i like. There's a lot of fucking talented people in it. I'll even name a few:
> Kylie Minogue. Alicia Keys. John Mayer. I Dont like their music, but god damned if they're not talented.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## noodles (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Now that is like comparing apples to oranges, first off large majority of people that vote are older non musicans, where mostly youth makes up what makes music popular.
> 
> Second when voting for a president you have 2 or 3 choices, mean while there countless number of bands out there to choose from.
> 
> Your statment is pointless and said out of desperation trying to justify your narrow minded thoughts.



Did you just defend Britney Spears and Ashlee Simpson? Come on, man, those are just a bunch of dancing puppets that follow what their management tells them to do.

I have no respect for anyone who lip syncs and doesn't write their own material. They are no different than the backing dancers on stage with them, other than the fact that the backing dancers aren't trying to present themselves as musicians.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Your statments alone pretty much show your content for certain artists with out actually knowing the full backround.



Im not trying to put down a bunch of specific artists or genres. There's something validating about just about all genres, man. Yeah i have contentions with certain artists, and yes i'm more familiar with some than others. If you pay attention here, there's tons of threads about bands i absolutely cant stand, but yet i never go in post disparaging remarks in any of these threads. Ask me my opinion and I'll tell you but for the most part, I'm not about going around and bashing shit. Ask anyone here. 

Like we were talking about with the Simpson thing, I'm going to stand by my statement. If she was sick, or whatever, like she said, call off the show, or go out and give it your best shot anyway, even its not as good. People will respect you more for it. Maybe what you look for in a show is different than me, but i want to see the artist perform their music, not a stage show. If I'm gonna hear the CD version anyway, i can listen to it at home. 

I think what we have here is just you misreading what I'm saying. I'm sorry if that's the case, but you could have been a little nicer about calling me out ;p


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

In your eyes there is music that is sub par, i am sorry, i dont judge music on how many notes you can play per minute or how difficult a part may be. I judge it on many other things



The Dark Wolf said:


> Now that's just ricockulous. That statement totally implies that there is universal quality to all music.
> 
> I call bullshit.
> 
> ...


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> I judge it on many other things



So does bob, there. He has REALLY diverse tastes. He listens to everything from pop(His all time favorite musician is prince, man!), to rap to death metal. literally a bit of everything. Technicality and how many notes or how difficult it is, is not something bob does.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

Its easy to say just cancel the show, but when you are playing something like saturday night live and last minute you get acid reflux, well then it is a little hard to cancel. 



Metal Ken said:


> Im not trying to put down a bunch of specific artists or genres. There's something validating about just about all genres, man. Yeah i have contentions with certain artists, and yes i'm more familiar with some than others. If you pay attention here, there's tons of threads about bands i absolutely cant stand, but yet i never go in post disparaging remarks in any of these threads. Ask me my opinion and I'll tell you but for the most part, I'm not about going around and bashing shit. Ask anyone here.
> 
> Like we were talking about with the Simpson thing, I'm going to stand by my statement. If she was sick, or whatever, like she said, call off the show, or go out and give it your best shot anyway, even its not as good. People will respect you more for it. Maybe what you look for in a show is different than me, but i want to see the artist perform their music, not a stage show. If I'm gonna hear the CD version anyway, i can listen to it at home.
> 
> I think what we have here is just you misreading what I'm saying. I'm sorry if that's the case, but you could have been a little nicer about calling me out ;p


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 23, 2008)

For the record I'm defending Jessica Simpson, not Ashley.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Its easy to say just cancel the show, but when you are playing something like saturday night live and last minute you get acid reflux, well then it is a little hard to cancel.



Yeah. I also said "go out and give it your best shot anyway, even its not as good. People will respect you more for it." If she's as talented as you say she is, i think its an insult to your fans to go out and dance around while the CD is playing in the background.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> For the record I'm defending Jessica Simpson, not Ashley.



The argument got sidetracked to her sister


----------



## Sebastian (Feb 23, 2008)

noodles said:


> I have no respect for anyone who lip syncs and *doesn't write their own material*.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> The argument got sidetracked to her sister



[action=Desecrated]is waiting for someone to make a sexual comment about wanting to 'sidetrack' Ashley...[/action]


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> So does bob, there. He has REALLY diverse tastes. He listens to everything from pop(His all time favorite musician is prince, man!), to rap to death metal. literally a bit of everything. Technicality and how many notes or how difficult it is, is not something bob does.



Thanks, dude.  Exactly.


I love how dude (erroneously) just ASSUMED I was the typical guitar asshat talking about technicality. I could give a SHIT about technicality. I love Johnny Cash, who has about zero technical ability.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

Dave and i were just having this argument over the phone, by the way he sides with you. But anyway what I was trying to get through to him is that when you are 19, under contract and everyone is telling you to do something because you are under contract, well what would you do? 

People tend to forget, at one point in every bands career they usually end with a track running in the back while they are out on stage acting like they are playing. Ozzy has done this, Iron maiden has done this and countless other bands over the past 30 or 40 years that music has been seen on TV. Ashley just got caught, didnt know what to do because she is 19 and embarrased, I probaly wouldnt have hoe downed, but I would have been embarrassed as hell.



Metal Ken said:


> Yeah. I also said "go out and give it your best shot anyway, even its not as good. People will respect you more for it." If she's as talented as you say she is, i think its an insult to your fans to go out and dance around while the CD is playing in the background.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

Bullshit.

Ashlee Simpson, pathetic excuses aside, I'm almost certain ROUTINELY lip synced. She fucking sucks, and her music is the equivalent of a Big mac. You can call a Big Mac valid all you want, but when you're kicking the bucket from a heart attack, and I'm going strong from Momma's Home Cookin', well, then you'll know there's such a thing as "quality."


----------



## speedy1 (Feb 23, 2008)

My favorite incident occured when listening to the local "metal radio station".

They had just played Godsmack, (sorry, I don't know the song name...it's the one that goes, "I'm not the one who's so far away, when I feel the snakebite enter my veins")

THEN, they played Type O Negative, Everything Dies.

Next thing you know, a kid calls up the station, and proceeds to bash Type O Negative, saying that THEY had ripped off Godsmack!! Not only that, but the kid went on to say how you could tell that Peter Steele (of Type O) was clearly using fx on his voice to make it sound so low, whereas the singer for Godsmack was using his real low (huh?!) voice on that song!

Oh, another one--

This teenage girl said she liked the ORIGINAL Guns n' Roses version of Knockin' on Heaven's Door best, it was WAY better than that other band's version who was ripping them off....


AND,

whenever I play some guitars in my local guitar store, everyone says, "You must love Yngwie right?" Uhhh.... just because I like to play fast doesn't mean I love Yngwie! I love Paul Gilbert and David Gilmour, Yngwie not as much.

OOps...maybe a posted in the wrong thread. My mistake. I was kind of jumping from thread to thread.

Anyhow, hope the story was interesting!


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

^ ADHD much?


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> People tend to forget, at one point in every bands career they usually end with a track running in the back while they are out on stage acting like they are playing. Ozzy has done this, Iron maiden has done this and countless other bands over the past 30 or 40 years that music has been seen on TV. Ashley just got caught, didnt know what to do because she is 19 and embarrased, I probaly wouldnt have hoe downed, but I would have been embarrassed as hell.



Yeah, but Iron Maiden and Ozzy's band wrote all their own music, lyrics, etc, performed it all on their records and could do it all on the show. Ozzy also never could remember the lyrics, and now reads from a teleprompter  

I can also think of a bunch of bands who have never done it, Venom and Black Flag for example. 

Here's a question to pose: 
If she knew she was gonna be lip syncing, why was her mic even ON if we werent supposed to hear it? Does she also not know her own songs well enough that even after hearing the whole band play the intro, she starts to sing the wrong song?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> Yeah, but Iron Maiden and Ozzy's band wrote all their own music, lyrics, etc, performed it all on their records and could do it all on the show. Ozzy also never could remember the lyrics, and now reads from a teleprompter
> 
> I can also think of a bunch of bands who have never done it, Venom and Black Flag for example.
> 
> ...



Wait wait wait, hold on, ozzy uses songwriters.


----------



## zimbloth (Feb 23, 2008)

Once I heard someone say Zakk Wylde was a good songwriter. Many laughs were had as the memories of 15-20 years of half-ass rubbish went through my head.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Wait wait wait, hold on, ozzy uses songwriters.



He does now. But back in his heyday, randy and bob daisley wrote all the music and lyrics. Then jake and bob. Then, etc. Till the late 90s. Which is when he about started sucking


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 23, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> He does now. But back in his heyday, randy and bob daisley wrote all the music and lyrics. Then jake and bob. Then, etc. Till the late 90s. Which is when he about started sucking



But if randy and bob wrote the music, they are still his songwriters, right ??


----------



## Makelele (Feb 23, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> Once I heard someone say Zakk Wylde was a good songwriter.



Well, he WAS a good songwriter.

His stuff with Ozzy rules (except the newest albums)

Pride & Glory rules

Stronger Than Death rules

Book of Shadows rules


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 23, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> But if randy and bob wrote the music, they are still his songwriters, right ??



Yeah, but they were IN the band. thats my point


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 23, 2008)

You words "im almost certain", but you are not so how can you blindly make a statement. 

Ashley writes great pop music, may not be your type, but she did co write half her first album, I am not sure about the albums after that as i stopped paying attention.

It is just sad she got caught lip syncing once, which most every band or artist has done once in her life, and yet she is labled a fake. 



The Dark Wolf said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Ashlee Simpson, pathetic excuses aside, I'm almost certain ROUTINELY lip synced. She fucking sucks, and her music is the equivalent of a Big mac. You can call a Big Mac valid all you want, but when you're kicking the bucket from a heart attack, and I'm going strong from Momma's Home Cookin', well, then you'll know there's such a thing as "quality."



Once again Ashley cowrote her album, second she never even started to sing, that was the whole thing, her voice came over the prompters before she even had the mic up to her mouth. 

OK and I should say, any band that has had to play on national TV, of course bands that dont get TV coverage are not gonna lip sync if they are not forced too.



Metal Ken said:


> Yeah, but Iron Maiden and Ozzy's band wrote all their own music, lyrics, etc, performed it all on their records and could do it all on the show. Ozzy also never could remember the lyrics, and now reads from a teleprompter
> 
> I can also think of a bunch of bands who have never done it, Venom and Black Flag for example.
> 
> ...



OK, let me tell you what I tell dave, lets agree not to agree, or we will just argue this all night. Lets get this topic back on track.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 23, 2008)

"Blindly?" She got fucking caught red-handed on national TV, live, and didn't know what the fuck to do. It's called a logical deduction from existing evidence, but even if I were to agree it's a stretch (which I won't), it's no way in hell "blind."  Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out these pop idiots do that shit all the time.


----------



## Jongpil Yun (Feb 23, 2008)

Most pop music is manufactured to, rather than being good, be "non-offensive". Bland and homogenized. Good enough that you don't change the radio dial. Hotelling's Law.


----------



## lucasreis (Feb 23, 2008)

Makelele said:


> Well, he WAS a good songwriter.
> 
> His stuff with Ozzy rules (except the newest albums)
> 
> ...



I agree and I would also add 1919 Eternal to the list, which I think it´s his last great album. After that he just shat the biggest turds he could in a ridiculous amount of time, talk about rushing things up just to have more albums out...

Oh, and about Ashley Simpson, there´s nothing respectable about her. She can´t sing, she even managed to fail at lyp-synching (worst blooper I´ve ever saw) and she is ugly. She wouldn´t be able to save her life if it wasn´t for all the blind and deaf "fans" of her.


----------



## El Caco (Feb 23, 2008)

It's not band/artist related and it's not a stupid thing someone said but it is music related and it was hella funny at the time.

In the 90's we lived on a large property and there was this old bloke who lived in a shack on the other side, he had been there longer than anyone can remember and we were asked to let him continue living there. He was a fighter pilot in WW2 so he had been around but the most recent piece of technology he owned was a GAS powered fridge. He came over our place for a yarn one day when I was listening to my disc man and he kept saying "what was that?", I had no idea what he was going on about but after a while I got curious and asked what he was referring to, he said "where is that music coming from?" so I put the headphones on him and it scared the shit out of him, he looked very distressed as he asked me how did they get them/that into that?" I just


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 23, 2008)

I once got in an argument with a Britney Spears fan at a party. She insisted that "All successful bands are manufactured." She's damn lucky I didn't kill her, and I'm a pretty peaceful guy


----------



## DelfinoPie (Feb 24, 2008)

s7eve said:


> the most recent piece of technology he owned was a GAS powered fridge.



I wish my fridge ran on how many guitars I wanted. It would make my electricity bill so much smaller.

See what I did there? Eh, Eh? 

[action=DelfinoPie]high-fives himself and leaves.[/action]


----------



## El Caco (Feb 24, 2008)




----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

OK this is my last post on the subject, because it is just tiring. 

Here is what a majority of the people know about Ashley Simpson.
1. She is Jessica's sister

2. She sings Pop Punk music

3. She got caught once lip syncing on natinoal TV.

I am sure there might be a few little other tid bits people know about her, but those are the three major things that people judge her on.

Here is reality about Ashley Simpson.
1. Yes she is Jessica Simpson's little sister, did that help, probaly, but Ashley was acting long before she started singing, long before Jessica really blew up because of her TV show. Yes having a famous realitive helps, but do you think any less of Jason Bonham or Dwezil Zappa? I dont really care for either of there music, but I would never put it down. 

And please dont give me that crap how can you compare Ashley to Jason or Dwezil, all three write there own music, just may not be your type music. And yes Ashley co-wrote her first album, dont ask me how much she wrote of her second or third as I am not really a big fan, like maybe a song here or there by her.

2. Yes she does pop punk/rock and she does it well, just because it is not your type of music, does not mean it is not good. I am sorry people are not that stupid, she went platnum X3 on first record, that is a pretty good accomplisment. And once again like i said, she co-wrote that album.

3. The ever dreaded lip syncing, I have said it in this thread and I will say it again. Almost every major act that HAS DONE TV APPEARENCE has had to lip sync at least once in there life, Ashley just got caught. But dont assume just because she got caught once that she always does it in real life. She is not a pop star, meaning she does not dance around alot on stage, she is a singer of a band.

Now the Irony of this whole argument, this whole thread is on how people say stupid things about music or artists they do not know much about, and yet some of you are saying stupid things about pop/pop punk music that you do not know much about. You assume this, you assume that with out really knowing the facts and that is what is disturbing.

Makes me wonder if you are really any better then the people that say metal is for losers, for idiots, metal is not musical, doesnt take talent to do metal etc.... I am starting to wonder who the hypocrytes really are here?





The Dark Wolf said:


> "Blindly?" She got fucking caught red-handed on national TV, live, and didn't know what the fuck to do. It's called a logical deduction from existing evidence, but even if I were to agree it's a stretch (which I won't), it's no way in hell "blind."  Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out these pop idiots do that shit all the time.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Calling people hypocrites for not supporting the Big Macs of the musical world is fucking ridiculous. You're really going over the line.

You argument that all music is equally valid is the most ludicrous crock of shit I've ever read. Might as well compare a custom Bernie Rico Jr. with a Korean Squier and say they're the same.

We have the concept of "quality" for a reason.


----------



## Mastodon (Feb 24, 2008)

s7eve said:


> It's not band/artist related and it's not a stupid thing someone said but it is music related and it was hella funny at the time.
> 
> In the 90's we lived on a large property and there was this old bloke who lived in a shack on the other side, he had been there longer than anyone can remember and we were asked to let him continue living there. He was a fighter pilot in WW2 so he had been around but the most recent piece of technology he owned was a GAS powered fridge. He came over our place for a yarn one day when I was listening to my disc man and he kept saying "what was that?", I had no idea what he was going on about but after a while I got curious and asked what he was referring to, he said "where is that music coming from?" so I put the headphones on him and it scared the shit out of him, he looked very distressed as he asked me how did they get them/that into that?" I just



Aw, that's so sad yet hillarious and awesome.

Edit: PS: You're all a bunch of NurfHerders!


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> 3. The ever dreaded lip syncing, I have said it in this thread and I will say it again. Almost every major act that HAS DONE TV APPEARENCE has had to lip sync at least once in there life, Ashley just got caught. But dont assume just because she got caught once that she always does it in real life. She is not a pop star, meaning she does not dance around alot on stage, she is a singer of a band.



Yeah, that may be true, but not on SNL. Almost all of the performers on that show sing live (other than other pop singers maybe), it's not required to lip sync on SNL. Also, I've heard her sing live on the Much Music Video Awards, it was a train wreck.


(unfortunately this is the only vid I could find and the sound's distorted, but trust me she sounded that out of tune on the broadcast, it has nothing to do with the quality of the rip)

And on shows where people _are_ forced to lip sync the track, real artists have a much better way of dealing with it:



(Nirvana did something similar, but I couldn't find a video of it)


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> OK this is my last post on the subject, because it is just tiring.
> 
> Here is what a majority of the people know about Ashley Simpson.
> 1. She is Jessica's sister
> ...




You need to calm the fuck down and stop addressing my members as though your difference in opinion somehow makes you better than everyone else, k? If you came here to argue and preen like a pompous ass, harmony central is -> that way and there are plenty of tools over there who will happily argue this topic with you until your face turns blue.

If you want to remain a member on my site, respect the fact that people have different opinions on things than you do, and that a difference in opinion doesn't make you right and them wrong.



> You assume this, you assume that with out really knowing the facts and that is what is disturbing.



Just like you assuming that you're the only one here that knows what they're talking about. The only problem I see in this thread is that you're blurring the line between "musician" and "entertainer". They are not the same thing.


----------



## DDDorian (Feb 24, 2008)

You do realise that "co-writing" a song in corporate pop terms amounts to contributing lyrics, most of which are ghost-edited into mechanical dullness (in many cases, a substantial improvement)? Plus, when she was busted lip-syncing her band was playing live, she was the only one miming. Who cares? The only reason songwriters worked with her is because her name would guarantee sales, not because they love those two notes she can hit when she hollers in the direction of a microphone; by the same token, she only pursued a music career because reality TV will only take you so far. I agree with you about the punk thing, though, not since Johnny Rotten has someone so utterly tonedeaf shifted so many units


----------



## Sebastian (Feb 24, 2008)

You talking about this ?


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

See that just shows who you really are, fast to judge without knowing facts. I see you are Mr know it all when it comes to music, yet ashley is making money getting her music out, what are you doing, sitting here typing and complaining about her.

Once again, you are being a hypocryte, you dont like her music so you call it the big mac. Please get over yourself.

You know how you can tell when someone is truly imature and what they say is not valid, when they have to curse alot and make stupid comparisons that really make no sense in order to try to get there point across.



The Dark Wolf said:


> Calling people hypocrites for not supporting the Big Macs of the musical world is fucking ridiculous. You're really going over the line.
> 
> You argument that all music is equally valid is the most ludicrous crock of shit I've ever read. Might as well compare a custom Bernie Rico Jr. with a Korean Squier and say they're the same.
> 
> We have the concept of "quality" for a reason.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

DDDorian said:


> You do realise that "co-writing" a song in corporate pop terms amounts to contributing lyrics, most of which are ghost-edited into mechanical dullness (in many cases, a substantial improvement)? Plus, when she was busted lip-syncing her band was playing live, she was the only one miming. Who cares? The only reason songwriters worked with her is because her name would guarantee sales, not because they love those two notes she can hit when she hollers in the direction of a microphone; by the same token, she only pursued a music career because reality TV will only take you so far. I agree with you about the punk thing, though, not since Johnny Rotten has someone so utterly tonedeaf shifted so many units





Respectable vocalists do not need a petrucci-sized rack of vocal processors and pitch correctors, a multi million dollar studio and an army of producers to make their voice sound decent.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

I have no problems with opinions, but when this is a thread about stupid things people say about artists, and yet they go saying stupid things about artists, dont you see something wrong with that?

People here are making an assumption about Ashley without really knowing who she is.

Now as to how I have handled myself, I have been polite, expressing my opinion, not cursing like other poeple have been doing to me. So why are you getting down on me?



Chris said:


> You need to calm the fuck down and stop addressing my members as though your difference in opinion somehow makes you better than everyone else, k? If you came here to argue and preen like a pompous ass, harmony central is -> that way and there are plenty of tools over there who will happily argue this topic with you until your face turns blue.
> 
> If you want to remain a member on my site, respect the fact that people have different opinions on things than you do, and that a difference in opinion doesn't make you right and them wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> See that just shows who you really are, fast to judge without knowing facts. I see you are Mr know it all when it comes to music, yet ashley is making money getting her music out, what are you doing, sitting here typing and complaining about her.



 Canned response. The amount of albums you sell has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with how good of a musician you are. Neither does the gear you own, the clothes you wear or what you had for breakfast this morning.



> Once again, you are being a hypocryte, you dont like her music so you call it the big mac. Please get over yourself.



Once again, you're taking offense to someone having a different opinion than you. 



> You know how you can tell when someone is truly imature and what they say is not valid, when they have to curse alot and make stupid comparisons that really make no sense in order to try to get there point across.



Actually, the way to tell when someone is truly immature is when they absolutely refuse to believe that any point of view other than their own is acceptable.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm sorry, but comparing Ashlee Simpson to Dream theater is nuts, Mozart, or even Tears for Fears, to use some ready examples is nuts. Nuts!

My anology talking about quality stands. There are DIFFERENT LEVELS of fucking quality. Whether it be guitars, music, billiard Qs, teapots, beers, porn magazines, squeegees, toaster ovens, rubber duckies, you name it!


And I fucking curse because I always fucking curse, goddammit. Your irrational, ridiculous arguments have zero fucking impact on that simple fact. And so much for your "last post" on this topic.

Dude, face it. You can't support your contention that all music is equally valid, Mr. Defender of All Music. There are quality standards FOR A REASON. And Britney or Ashlee do NOT reach that, as has been publicly proven.


----------



## Sebastian (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris just OWNED you ...

now go get a big mac  


* Sebastian respects everyones opinions


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

But are you assuming that she uses vocal processors, pitch correctors? Do you have any proof to back this up?

The one thing you people neglect to notice is I have backed up all my facts, where other people keeping cursing and spewing out comments that have no merit backing those comments up.



Chris said:


> Respectable vocalists do not need a petrucci-sized rack of vocal processors and pitch correctors, a multi million dollar studio and an army of producers to make their voice sound decent.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> I have no problems with opinions, but when this is a thread about stupid things people say about artists, and yet they go saying stupid things about artists, dont you see something wrong with that?



This is a thread full of forum regulars who like one another bullshitting about music. It only went downhill when you came in and decided to tell everyone how wrong they are because you don't agree with them.



> People here are making an assumption about Ashley without really knowing who she is.



You're mamking assumptions about TDW without really knowing who he is. Pot, kettle.



> Now as to how I have handled myself, I have been polite, expressing my opinion, not cursing like other poeple have been doing to me. So why are you getting down on me?



I hardly think that calling my members uneducated hypocrites en masse is "polite", pal.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Yes i forgot, millions of people liking Ashley simpson does not compare to maybe 100 or so people that sit and type on a board. Dont go saying that record says has nothing to do with talent, that is just BS.



Chris said:


> Canned response. The amount of albums you sell has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with how good of a musician you are. Neither does the gear you own, the clothes you wear or what you had for breakfast this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> But are you assuming that she uses vocal processors, pitch correctors? Do you have any proof to back this up?



You're right. I guess I just went on the assumption that I trust my ear, having been a musician for almost 20 years. Funny how that works.



> The one thing you people neglect to notice is I have backed up all my facts, where other people keeping cursing and spewing out comments that have no merit backing those comments up.



Since you're so keen on "proof", how about you go and dig up irrefutable proof that she did NOT use any vocal processors in the studio?


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Wah! "Oh noes, cursing!"

Dude, we always fucking cuss around here. Notice - I called your arguments stupid and ridiculous. Which I feel they are. But no where did I curse at or insult you personally. Grow up. If you argue with the big boys, be prepared for the heat. You're allowed to curse too, you know. Just don't insult the members by calling them "hypocrites", "narrow minded", or anything else like that.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

DDDorian said:


> I agree with you about the punk thing, though, not since Johnny Rotten has someone so utterly tonedeaf shifted so many units



You know, I'd almost have more respect for her if she had done the truly "punk" thing and left off the autotune and never lip synced, and didn't care how bad she sounded 

(before anyone says "She doesn't use autotune", I can hear autotune, and she does, a fact made more solid by seeing her recording her first album on her show and hearing how different the final product is)

Though I remember hearing someone (possibly George Stromboulopoulous) talking about how Ashlee Simpson is so un-punk that she's almost more punk than any of the current "punk" bands


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

Sebastian said:


> You talking about this ?




That's the one! Thanks!


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

And her name, since you seem to be her biggest defender, is ASHLEE. Not "Ashley."

I think you should at least get that part right. 


Goddamit.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

ONce again said members are making statments on assumptions, do you really call that intelligent conversation? I expressed my opinion and I saw your response's.

You can all stick up for each other, but honestly you guys are the most closed minded people I have ever seen that think because it is not there music it is crap. Because it sells millions or records and the mass population likes it then it is crap. That is really sad.


Chris said:


> This is a thread full of forum regulars who like one another bullshitting about music. It only went downhill when you came in and decided to tell everyone how wrong they are because you don't agree with them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> ONce again said members are making statments on assumptions, do you really call that intelligent conversation? I expressed my opinion and I saw your response's.
> 
> You can all stick up for each other, but honestly you guys are the most closed minded people I have ever seen that think because it is not there music it is crap. Because it sells millions or records and the mass population likes it then it is crap. That is really sad.



Jump to conclusions much?



> Because it sells millions or records and the mass population likes it then it is crap.



Show me, exactly, where someone said that in this thread.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

She was busted lip syncing on National TV. For the millionth time. Video was posted showing her singing without the lip sync, and it was awful. It is NOT close-minded, hypocritical, or even a STRETCH to infer that she SUCKS based on these FACTS. You keep saying we know NOTHING about her, and yet we know fucking plenty. P.L.E.N.T.Y.


Her music is musical McDonalds. I can't spell it out any more. You disagree, fine. But quit trying to character assassinate those of us who dis-a-fucking-gree with you.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> But are you assuming that she uses vocal processors, pitch correctors? Do you have any proof to back this up?
> 
> The one thing you people neglect to notice is I have backed up all my facts, where other people keeping cursing and spewing out comments that have no merit backing those comments up.



I see you cleverly ignored my post where I posted _definitive proof_ of her inability to hold pitch.


----------



## El Caco (Feb 24, 2008)

For fucks sake


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> ONce again said members are making statments on assumptions, do you really call that intelligent conversation?



I call it a bunch of friends bullshitting about music together and expressing their opinions, actually.



> I expressed my opinion and I disregarded everyone's response, especially ones I didn't agree with



Fixed that for you.



> You can all stick up for each other, but honestly you guys are the most closed minded people I have ever seen that think because it is not there music it is crap.



If I don't like something and I think it's crap, guess what? I'm completely entitled to say "I think it's crap". Just like you're entitled to say "I do not think it's crap". The prpblem here is that you refuse to let anyone have an opinion that's different from yours.

Again, if you want to find the closed-minded person in this thread, take a peek in the mirror.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> She was busted lip syncing on National TV. For the millionth time. Video was posted showing her singing without the lip sync, and it was awful. It is NOT close-minded, hypocritical, or even a STRETCH to infer that she SUCKS based on these FACTS. You keep saying we know NOTHING about her, and yet we know fucking plenty. P.L.E.N.T.Y.
> 
> 
> Her music is musical McDonalds. I can't spell it out any more. You disagree, fine. But quit trying to character assassinate those of us who dis-a-fucking-gree with you.



Apparently in Siggy's world, sucking on national TV and then sucking in several video examples in this very thread isn't enough "proof" for him. I do work for the government, perhaps I should call the FBI and see if they have a file on her in the Department Of Categorizing Things That Suck. I think it's their busy season.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

OK, because Ashlee, ashley, however she spells it, by the way I said I am not a fan of hers, i just respect her. Anyway because she got caught lip syncing once instantly everyone puts her down. How can you say I am jumping to conclusion, when certain members put her down because it is not there music and they see she got caught lip syncing, something almost every major act on television has had to do. 

So lets put this in perspective, say opeth or any other band that you guys are really into go on TV and for some strange reason they have to lip sync and they get caught. 

All of a sudden you have people saying how they are fakes, have no talent and are mass produced etc.. What is gonna be your first reaction, well they are narrow minded and dont know much about said band and are making assumptions.

As to where in this thread someone has said something, the other dude has been comparing her to the big mac through out the whole thread.



Chris said:


> Jump to conclusions much?
> 
> 
> 
> Show me, exactly, where someone said that in this thread.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

No shit, Chris.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

eleven59 said:


> I see you cleverly ignored my post where I posted _definitive proof_ of her inability to hold pitch.



Convenient, eh? 

His argument in this thread when countered is akin to a kid sticking his fingers in his hears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". People who pick and choose what they debate only do so because they don't have a leg to stand on otherwise.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Yes i forgot, millions of people liking Ashley simpson does not compare to maybe 100 or so people that sit and type on a board. Dont go saying that record says has nothing to do with talent, that is just BS.



Wow, way to ruin an otherwise entertaining thread.:-/


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

So now, if i come on here and start saying bands you like are crap, you wouldnt retaliate?



Chris said:


> I call it a bunch of friends bullshitting about music together and expressing their opinions, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Umm... guess what? Opeth has TONS of awesome live performances to BACK UP their quality.

Ashlee?


How much depth, thought, feeling, or real emotional insight goes into her cookie-cutter music, anyway? Same tired old pop cliche themes (Big Macs ), at least from what I heard on the radio. People might have opinions on those things, like food, but having an opinion doesn't equate that with that opinion as being equally valid, informed, or relevant.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Yes and I have seen many artists have a bad day where they cant sing. I saw ashley live once in person and she was right on all night. It is funny how people always seem to post when someone is having a bad day.



Chris said:


> Convenient, eh?
> 
> His argument in this thread when countered is akin to a kid sticking his fingers in his hears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". People who pick and choose what they debate only do so because they don't have a leg to stand on otherwise.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> OK, because Ashlee, ashley, however she spells it, by the way I said I am not a fan of hers, i just respect her. Anyway because she got caught lip syncing once instantly everyone puts her down. How can you say I am jumping to conclusion, when certain members put her down because it is not there music and they see she got caught lip syncing, something almost every major act on television has had to do.



You're leaving something out. She got caught lip syncing after claiming to be a legitimate rock act, not a pop princess. And then she blamed her band for "playing the wrong song".



> So lets put this in perspective, say opeth or any other band that you guys are really into go on TV and for some strange reason they have to lip sync and they get caught.



In perspective, Opeth is actually a band. Ashlee Simpson is one person with a bunch of studio guys getting paid to play songs that someone else wrote for her.



> All of a sudden you have people saying how they are fakes, have no talent and are mass produced etc.. What is gonna be your first reaction, well they are narrow minded and dont know much about said band and are making assumptions.



Actually, I'd probably just find a live clip of Opeth kicking ass and post it. If you have a live clip of Ashlee kicking ass, fire it up.



> As to where in this thread someone has said something, the other dude has been comparing her to the big mac through out the whole thread.



That's his opinion. Funny how that works, eh?


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Actually, if you knew anything about her, the whole first album is about her personal pain of being in her beautiful very successfull sisters footsteps. 

And have you seen opeth perform tons of times and seen them on spot everytime? Actualy bigger question is have you seen Ashlee perform tons of times and seen her not perform well?



The Dark Wolf said:


> Umm... guess what? Opeth has TONS of awesome live performances to BACK UP their quality.
> 
> Ashlee?
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> So now, if i come on here and start saying bands you like are crap, you wouldnt retaliate?



Dude, know what I'm listening to as I type this? The first Winger album. I don't give a fuck if someone doesn't like what I like, and there are SCORES of people out there who will attest to the fact that this album is crap. I, on the other hand, am enjoying listening to it, and it doesn't make you narrow minded, immature or any of the other lovely adjectives you've thrown out in this thread if you think it's crap.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

For someone "not a fan" of hers, you've A) vigorously defended her throughout this thread, B) fail to see her musical faults, and C) have seen her live.

Wow, I hope I can have "not fans" like you someday.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris said:


> ...is akin to a kid sticking his fingers in his hears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".



Kinda funny that you could also describe this video that way


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

But she does normaly sing, people just fucos in on what they want too. Yes you are right about her being a singer with studio musicans, she is still an artist though.

As to the last thing you asked me to prove where someone said something i did, and that was your defence? Why did you ask me to prove only to go back on what you originaly asked?

Funny thing is you keep saying I starting the trouble, but I have said my peace and done it respectfully, you guys keep coming back at me. 




Chris said:


> You're leaving something out. She got caught lip syncing after claiming to be a legitimate rock act, not a pop princess. And then she blamed her band for "playing the wrong song".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Yes and I have seen many artists have a bad day where they cant sing. I saw ashley live once in person and she was right on all night. It is funny how people always seem to post when someone is having a bad day.



It's funny how you saw her live and defend her as if your feelings have been hurt and yet claim to not be a fan.

No offense dude, I used to be you back in my Jemsite days, that's why my post count there is so high, I wouldn't constantly get into full-blown arguments defending bands I liked that people bashed, until I realized it doesn't matter what other people think, and different opinions are what makes this whole music thing interesting. 

One more thing: she was caught lip syncing, you saw her live and she was spot on all night...you don't see a possible connection there at all? Unless you were front row center, 10 feet away from her, I doubt you'd be able to say definitively that she wasn't lip syncing.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

1. I'm not going to go watch Ashlee perform "tons of times." Y'know, I had Long John Silvers a couple of times in my life, but even that is enough to know it's not on the same level as Red Lobster. Oh, wait! By your logic, I have to go eat there 465, 798 times!

2. Gimmie a break, dude. I've seen and heard Ashlee's music. It's clever formula pop made by the big studios just like all the rest of that stuff. Replaces talent with clever studio tricks, because of image. My OPINION, but the video facts back it up.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> And have you seen opeth perform tons of times and seen them on spot everytime? Actualy bigger question is have you seen Ashlee perform tons of times and seen her not perform well?



In video form, yes.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Actually i like winger too, but to be honest I would never say anything bad about any band, because honestly I respect all music, even if it makes me cringe listening to it.



Chris said:


> Dude, know what I'm listening to as I type this? The first Winger album. I don't give a fuck if someone doesn't like what I like, and there are SCORES of people out there who will attest to the fact that this album is crap. I, on the other hand, am enjoying listening to it, and it doesn't make you narrow minded, immature or any of the other lovely adjectives you've thrown out in this thread if you think it's crap.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

FYI dude, the word "fan" is a short form of "fanatic".

You say you're not a "fan" but I'd say your defense of her music is the _definition_ of fanatical.


----------



## El Caco (Feb 24, 2008)

Oh well threads gone to hell anyway.

IMO Ashley sucked long before the latest TV fuck up and being popular is not an indicator of talent unless you are referring to the talent the media machine has in influencing the way people think.

Milli Vanilli
Kellis


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Man, people like you are why Paris Hilton makes records.

There are honest, sincere, thoughtful, hard working musicians out there... real musicians, who struggle, and have so much to say, yet people with a catchy look and studio backing get heard. And along comes someone like you to defend it all, saying if someone points out the differences between the two, they are "narrow minded" or a "hypocrite."

Not fucking cool, man.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> But she does normaly sing, people just fucos in on what they want too. Yes you are right about her being a singer with studio musicans, she is still an artist though.



And people here are *of the opinion* that her singing sucks. What's so hard abou tthis?



> As to the last thing you asked me to prove where someone said something i did, and that was your defence? Why did you ask me to prove only to go back on what you originaly asked?



I asked you to show me where someone said that every album that's popular and sells millions is crap. You did say that's what people here are saying, so show me where it's said.



> Funny thing is you keep saying I starting the trouble, but I have said my peace and done it respectfully, you guys keep coming back at me.



You are an uninformed, closed minded hypocrite. See? Not so respectful, is it?


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

OK first of all i see many bands i wish i didnt have to see. As to knowing if she was lip syncing, trust me she wasnt, I have been alive long enough to know the difference, played many shows back in the 80's and to honest, yes i was about ten feet away.

I am not so much defending Ashlee, althought that seems to be what it turned into, but more the fact i just cant stand it when people put down music they dont like, or make assumptions on music over a few little things they know about it.

As to seeing opeth on video form, trust me it can be cleaned up.



eleven59 said:


> It's funny how you saw her live and defend her as if your feelings have been hurt and yet claim to not be a fan.
> 
> No offense dude, I used to be you back in my Jemsite days, that's why my post count there is so high, I wouldn't constantly get into full-blown arguments defending bands I liked that people bashed, until I realized it doesn't matter what other people think, and different opinions are what makes this whole music thing interesting.
> 
> One more thing: she was caught lip syncing, you saw her live and she was spot on all night...you don't see a possible connection there at all? Unless you were front row center, 10 feet away from her, I doubt you'd be able to say definitively that she wasn't lip syncing.


----------



## Makelele (Feb 24, 2008)

Iron Maiden caught lip-synching:






It's shocking!!!


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

Sebastian said:


> You talking about this ?




 The faux Sinatra/oldschool country vocal is hilarious. Heroin kills, kiddies. 


[action=Drew]loves Nirvana but knows a good joke when he sees it.[/action]


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Once again, i used Ashlee as an example, but you dont seem to pick the up. My whole big argument is about people putting down music and artists they do not know much about. Which ironicaly is what this whole thread was started for.



eleven59 said:


> FYI dude, the word "fan" is a short form of "fanatic".
> 
> You say you're not a "fan" but I'd say your defense of her music is the _definition_ of fanatical.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Actually i like winger too, but to be honest I would never say anything bad about any band, because honestly I respect all music, even if it makes me cringe listening to it.



And they're not saying anything "bad" about Ashlee. They're saying they've seen videos where she was singing way out of key (and not a single video of her singing in tune where she's not clearly lip syncing, I might point out), they're saying it's manufactured pop music _WHICH IT IS_, and they're saying they don't personally like her music or consider her very talented.

I personally don't have a problem with manufactured pop music as, being an aspiring songwriter/producer/engineer I see the talent lurking behind the scenes, and I love a catchy tune. Hell, I actually _like_ some of Ashlee's songs, even if I don't like her voice or personality.

But, dude, if you consider yourself a musician at all, you can't possibly deny that she is singing out of tune in the video I posted. If you don't hear it, you need to invest in a seriously good tuner for your guitars as you definitely won't be able to do it by ear (a lot of guitarists can't).


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

"Few little things?" 

Ashlee has been in the public spotlight forever, especially because of the substance and "quality" of her music, her music has been played ad nauseum on the radio, and yet you keep asserting we know little to nothing about her.


----------



## eleven59 (Feb 24, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Man, people like you are why Paris Hilton makes records.
> 
> There are honest, sincere, thoughtful, hard working musicians out there... real musicians, who struggle, and have so much to say, yet people with a catchy look and studio backing get heard. And along comes someone like you to defend it all, saying if someone points out the differences between the two, they are "narrow minded" or a "hypocrite."
> 
> Not fucking cool, man.



To be fair, a lot of those honest, sincere, thoughtful, hard working musicians are working behind the scenes writing and playing on those albums


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Do you not see it, this whole thread is about people making judgements about artists and groups they do not know much about. Yet they are making judgements and stupid comments, is that not being a hypocrite?

Yes people have there opinions, but when they are posting in a thread about how people make stupid comments based on there opinions, and yet they are making the same stupid opinions on another artist I have a problem with that.



Chris said:


> And people here are *of the opinion* that her singing sucks. What's so hard abou tthis?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Actually i like winger too, but to be honest I would never say anything bad about any band, because honestly I respect all music, even if it makes me cringe listening to it.



You're talking to a forum full of musicians about a premade pop princess who started out with a multi million dollar budget and had a team of producers pen her an album full of songs that she wrote lyrics to. Lyrics about how much life sucks when you're loaded but your sister is prettier and more famous than you are.

I have more in common with gangsta rappers talking about how hard it is to live in the 'hood than I do with Ashlee Simpson and her "pain", and I'm a white dude who lives in the burbs. At least the rappers are talking about something legitimate.

Then, because her sister and family are famous, that album got fucktons of MTV rotation and airplay. BECAUSE OF THAT, the album sold millions of copies, because the nature of media is that people buy what's popular, unless you think 13 year old girls are out there buying albums because they appreciate the intricate musical compositions.

Given all this, I don't see where your shock and awe comes from when people on here (actual musicians!) say she sucks.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Which only reinforces my point. I can't believe you don't see that, Eleven.

It's like if the world's best chef's could only have jobs at McDonalds, because they control 99% of all restaurants. A situation very analogous to the music industry, at least until very, very recently.


Chris - well said. My point exactly.


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

Makelele said:


> Iron Maiden caught lip-synching:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Ok, and this one's even better. If I'm in an international rock band that ever has to lip-sync a performance, I'm SO doing this. 



My think with Ashley is that she from day one billed herself as an anti-mainstream artist, with the punkier edgeand rebel image and whatnot. Since then, she's gotten caught lip-syncing and had a nosejob, after saying she'dnever have plastic surgery.

In short, she sold out. I don't really care to debate if she has "talent" or not, because I have zero respect for her credibility. 

(To be fair, her father is probably at fault)


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

OK you posted one video of her out of tune, i never said she wasnt, actualy i said everyone has a bad day.

Now once again you say it is manafactured pop music, but yet she is writing on her own personal feelings, is that really manafactured?



eleven59 said:


> And they're not saying anything "bad" about Ashlee. They're saying they've seen videos where she was singing way out of key (and not a single video of her singing in tune where she's not clearly lip syncing, I might point out), they're saying it's manufactured pop music _WHICH IT IS_, and they're saying they don't personally like her music or consider her very talented.
> 
> I personally don't have a problem with manufactured pop music as, being an aspiring songwriter/producer/engineer I see the talent lurking behind the scenes, and I love a catchy tune. Hell, I actually _like_ some of Ashlee's songs, even if I don't like her voice or personality.
> 
> But, dude, if you consider yourself a musician at all, you can't possibly deny that she is singing out of tune in the video I posted. If you don't hear it, you need to invest in a seriously good tuner for your guitars as you definitely won't be able to do it by ear (a lot of guitarists can't).


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Do you not see it, this whole thread is about people making judgements about artists and groups they do not know much about. Yet they are making judgements and stupid comments, is that not being a hypocrite?
> 
> Yes people have there opinions, but when they are posting in a thread about how people make stupid comments based on there opinions, and *yet they are making the same stupid opinions* on another artist I have a problem with that.



This isn't the Wall Street Journal dude, it's a website full of shredders and metalheads. What makes you think that everyone on this thread is completely unfamiliar with her material? If you search "avril lavigne" on here, chances are you'll come up with a few threads from me saying how much her first album kicks ass. Not everyone here takes in a 24/7 diet of Kreator and Deicide (well, Ken does), so it's short-sighted of you to just jump to the conclusion that you're the only one in this thread that's "qualified" to comment on her music.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> OK you posted one video of her out of tune, i never said she wasnt, actualy i said everyone has a bad day.
> 
> Now once again you say it is manafactured pop music, but yet she is writing on her own personal feelings, is that really manafactured?



There is more to being a musician and a songwriter than just being able to jot down how you feel dude. If it was that easy, every kid with a diary would be classified as a world-class artist.

Ashlee Simpson is an *entertainer*. The majority of the fans of that genre don't give a shit about musical merit. What works for her is that she has a lot of talented songwriters *coming up with the material for her*. If someone gave me a copy of And Justice for All with no vocals, and I belted out some shit over it with Andy Sneap producing my vocal tracks, the album would probably still kick ass.

Look at bands like Kelly Clarkson, Chris Daughtry, or any of the American Idols. I have the KC album. I think it's great. Why? Because the songs are very well written and catchy. However I don't consider Kelly Clarkson a world class musician because at the end of the day, she sang over someone else's stuff. 

Pop music is just karaoke with backlines you haven't heard yet.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm going to do my best to save this thread.


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

FIRESOUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

The obligatory Firesoul vid can save ANY thread. 


Aviril Lavigne sucks. Then again, I freely admit to listening to Nirvana, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris said:


> I'm going to do my best to save this thread.




I was just listening to that, Chris. You're the most awesome thing in this thread.


----------



## El Caco (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> i just cant stand it when people put down music they dont like, or make assumptions on music over a few little things they know about it.
> 
> As to seeing opeth on video form, trust me it can be cleaned up.



Your the one making the assumption here. If you go back and read the posts of the people you are arguing with you will find that they have complimented people on their talent even when they don't like the music. I don't see others making assumptions here, I see them offering informed opinions based on overwhelming evidence about something that is common place in the recording industry.

I apologise for being slow.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

Drew said:


> The obligatory Firesoul vid can save ANY thread.
> 
> 
> Aviril Lavigne sucks. Then again, I freely admit to listening to Nirvana, so take that with a grain of salt.



Clearly, your narrow minded, immature, hypocritical views damn your posts before they even spew forth from your keyboard.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

But the only two that really fought me up till you decided to step in was metaken and the dark wolf. And even metalken backed off, not saying he gave up, but either he had something to do, or just decided i had a valid point, or just figured it wasnt worth the fight.

Either way once you stepped in everyone all of a sudden started jumping out of the wood work. You get down on my for expressing my opinion, but mean while everyone else keeps expressing there opinions but it is not a problem.

You are like dr jekel and my hyde, one minute you are saying i should respect the opinions of the board members, but next minute you are not respectiong mine. One minute you are saying i shouldnt be saying anything mean or putting down something, and then the next minute you are saying you dont give a fuck what people say.



Chris said:


> This isn't the Wall Street Journal dude, it's a website full of shredders and metalheads. What makes you think that everyone on this thread is completely unfamiliar with her material? If you search "avril lavigne" on here, chances are you'll come up with a few threads from me saying how much her first album kicks ass. Not everyone here takes in a 24/7 diet of Kreator and Deicide (well, Ken does), so it's short-sighted of you to just jump to the conclusion that you're the only one in this thread that's "qualified" to comment on her music.


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris said:


> Clearly, your narrow minded, immature, hypocritical views damn your posts before they even spew forth from your keyboard.



Oh, my bad, I figured that was coffee. 

Siggy, listen to the Firesoul video. You'll feel better.


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

Ooooh, coffee. I need coffee. I'll be back.


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> But the only two that really fought me up till you decided to step in was metaken and the dark wolf. And even metalken backed off, not saying he gave up, but either he had something to do, or just decided i had a valid point, or just figured it wasnt worth the fight.
> 
> Either way once you stepped in everyone all of a sudden started jumping out of the wood work. You get down on my for expressing my opinion, but mean while everyone else keeps expressing there opinions but it is not a problem.
> 
> You are like dr jekel and my hyde, one minute you are saying i should respect the opinions of the board members, but next minute you are not respectiong mine. One minute you are saying i shouldnt be saying anything mean or putting down something, and then the next minute you are saying you dont give a fuck what people say.



Stop hijacking this thread. You've made your point. People disagree. Get the fuck over yourself.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

But I had this argument with dave yesterday and it went like this. Do you consider bruce dickenson from Iron maiden a musician, Dave said yes, ok then why dont you consider ashley, they both do the same thing, write lyrics. One happens to be in a metal band, one happens to be in a pop punk band.

To be honest with you, i agree though, I have always considered singers entertainers unless they actually help write the music.



Chris said:


> There is more to being a musician and a songwriter than just being able to jot down how you feel dude. If it was that easy, every kid with a diary would be classified as a world-class artist.
> 
> Ashlee Simpson is an *entertainer*. The majority of the fans of that genre don't give a shit about musical merit. What works for her is that she has a lot of talented songwriters *coming up with the material for her*. If someone gave me a copy of And Justice for All with no vocals, and I belted out some shit over it with Andy Sneap producing my vocal tracks, the album would probably still kick ass.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

The Jekyll/Hyde person in this thread is you dude. Read what I am typing before replying, please. I'm debating with you *why it's wrong for you to tell someone that their opinion is wrong*. That's why it's called an opinion. Everything I say is my opinion unless I state it as a fact.

I don't care what you say about the music I like. I don't care what anyone says. I *do* care when someone like you hops on my site and starts calling the members a bunch of hypocritical, narrow-minded, immature know-nothings because their opinion of Ashlee Simpson is different than yours.

I'm not down on you for expressing your opinon. I'm down on you because you are telling everyone else that their opinion is wrong, and you're doing it while grandstanding on a soapbox.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> But I had this argument with dave yesterday and it went like this. Do you consider bruce dickenson from Iron maiden a musician, Dave said yes, ok then why dont you consider ashley, they both do the same thing, write lyrics.



That's like comparing Steve Vai with any kid who walks into a guitar store and plays smoke on the water for the first time. If you own a guitar, congrats, you're a guitarist. Being a musician is something that takes *work*. They are not the same thing. 

If I go out and buy a hammer I don't call myself a carpenter.


----------



## Drew (Feb 24, 2008)

I think the disctinction is I doubt Bruce has ever done any acting and/or modeling on the side, and isn't a regular at Hollywood red carpet events. 

Bob's Luscious Locks, on the other hand... Hmm. Maybe you have a point. 


I still haven't made coffee yet, by the way. :/


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris said:


> That's like comparing Steve Vai with any kid who walks into a guitar store and plays smoke on the water for the first time. If you own a guitar, congrats, you're a guitarist. Being a musician is something that takes *work*. They are not the same thing.
> 
> If I go out and buy a hammer I don't call myself a carpenter.



This is what I've been saying over and over with the Big Mac analogy.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> This is what I've been saying over and over with the Big Mac analogy.



I think part of it is that amongst musicians, the amount of respect someone gets tends to be directly related to how talented they are. (Funny how that is). People who are talented don't need to go around defending themselves like Ashlee does. You'll never see Petrucci say "Seriously, come on guys, I'm good!". It's not just instrument skill either. Listen to Soundgarden, or hell, fuckn' Nirvana. I doubt many people spent hours pining over difficult Soundgarden tabs, as Kim Thayil didn't play the most complex stuff. But he wrote really, really good songs. 

The same applies (well, if you ask Drew) to Nirvana. I'll always be jaded because they were the proverbial nail in the coffin to my beloved 80's metal genre, but Cobain was a good songwriter. I don't like the songs he wrote, but I also don't like the Beatles, Ani DiFranco or hell, Beethoven. Me saying "I don't like it" is not me saying "they aren't talented". I respect their music because I believe that all of them ARE talented, it's just not what I like to listen to.

With pop music, the talent all comes from someone other than the person in the spotlight. Simpson's sold millions of albums. Who's her guitar player? Who's her drummer? Where are their red carpet entrances? When Joe Perry walks down the red carpet, he's Joe fucking Perry. When Ashlee's guitar player goes to an event, nobody gives a shit, even if he's the guy that wrote their favorite song.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Well the way you come off is I am wrong no matter what I say, even though people are being hypocrites. Once again this whole thread is on stop comments people say about artists without knowing all the facts. And yet people are saying stupid comments on artists they dont like without knowing all the facts or just assuming things based on what they believe are facts.

Honestly the one area i agree with Wolf is where he said he use to be like me and would argue whenever someone said something bad about a group he liked. Well I dont usually argue this anymore, I gave up a long time argueing over it on the JCF board as there was always one guy there that would trash groups he didnt like. 

But the reason i felt so compleled to argue in this thread was because the whole thread is about people making stupid comments about artists and then people are making stupid comments.

Honestly if someone would have opened a thread and started bashing Ashlee i would have probaly just been like whatever. I would rather have someone make stupid comments and just be like, OK i know what kind of person that person is. But when you make it in a thread like this, well it is just being a hypocrite.

Second, i find it sad just because i am not a regular here that my opinion is worth any less. I didnt call everyone a hypocrite, just the ones that were actually being one. I am sorry, dont bash other peoples music if you dont want yours bashed. That is being a hypocrite.

Chris you seem like a smart dude, but seems you are more caught up in defending the members here and are not really looking at the big picture. I am sure all these guys have there merits, but if you are gonna be a hypocrite i will call you on it. 

ONCE AGAIN, dont go bashing other peoples music if you dont like it when people bash your music, it just makes you a hypocrite, that was my whole point that got to the point where everyone thinks I am a huge Ashlee fan, I was just using her as an example.

She writes poppy catchy music that millions of people love, yes she had help, but either way the lyrics came from her heart, which is what music is about, feelings and emotions of ones own personal experiences.



Chris said:


> The Jekyll/Hyde person in this thread is you dude. Read what I am typing before replying, please. I'm debating with you *why it's wrong for you to tell someone that their opinion is wrong*. That's why it's called an opinion. Everything I say is my opinion unless I state it as a fact.
> 
> I don't care what you say about the music I like. I don't care what anyone says. I *do* care when someone like you hops on my site and starts calling the members a bunch of hypocritical, narrow-minded, immature know-nothings because their opinion of Ashlee Simpson is different than yours.
> 
> I'm not down on you for expressing your opinon. I'm down on you because you are telling everyone else that their opinion is wrong, and you're doing it while grandstanding on a soapbox.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

Well I can see this getting nowhere, because I keep quoting you until I'm blue in the face but you ignore my points. 

 It's time for a new tactic!


----------



## MF_Kitten (Feb 24, 2008)

i find it generally annoying when people think that fenders are the ultimate guitars ever, and that´s what they hope to own some day... when they play metal...

like, they don´t know what fenders really sound like, they just know that it´s "the best guitars evvar!"


----------



## Naren (Feb 24, 2008)

+100 @Chris

<I'm not going to say anything because, from reading through the past 10 pages, it's become clear that siggy has his fingers in his ears and will not listen to anyone's opinion other than his own, making anything I see meaningless. >

Just to throw this out there, not directed at anyone in particular...
I don't think there is such a thing as an inferior genre of music, but there are levels of music. To think that my music isn't better than the guy who auditioned for us a month ago who sounded like he hadn't practiced in 20 years, was horribly out of tune, was misfretting everywhere, off key, off tempo, and was playing stuff completely different than we were.

There is such a thing as quality in music. When you reach a level of quality, the difference is in opinion, but there is "shit." I will admit to the quality of music that I hate. I will admit to talent. But there is such a thing as "crap."


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> i find it generally annoying when people think that fenders are the ultimate guitars ever, and that´s what they hope to own some day... when they play metal...
> 
> like, they don´t know what fenders really sound like, they just know that it´s "the best guitars evvar!"



Dude.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> ^ +100
> 
> <I'm not going to say anything because, from reading through the past 10 pages, it's become clear that siggy has his fingers in his ears and will not listen to anyone's opinion other than his own, making anything I see meaningless. >



At times like this, nothing is more appropriate than unabashed Tom Brady praise.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Honestly, no new tactic. I am sorry it is being a hypocrite when you make stupid comments about bands/artists and you are posting it in a thread that is on people that make stupid comments on bands/artists. If you cant see that then I dont know what else to say.







Chris said:


> Well I can see this getting nowhere, because I keep quoting you until I'm blue in the face but you ignore my points.
> 
> It's time for a new tactic!


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Honestly, no new tactic. I am sorry it is being a hypocrite when you make stupid comments about bands/artists and you are posting it in a thread that is on people that make stupid comments on bands/artists. If you cant see that then I dont know what else to say.



*THE ONLY PERSON THAT THINKS THE COMMENTS ARE STUPID IS YOU, SIR. YOU ARE ALONE.*


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

People that won't "ACCEPT" defeat.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

I give up, it is like trying to talk to a child..... OK you win, Ashlee sucks, Metal rule..... Hell yeah..



Chris said:


> *THE ONLY PERSON THAT THINKS THE COMMENTS ARE STUPID IS YOU, SIR. YOU ARE ALONE.*


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> I give up, it is like trying to talk to a child..... OK you win, Ashlee sucks, Metal rule..... Hell yeah..



Talking to you certainly is. You're more than welcome to continue being a pompous ass and ignoring everything I've contradicted you on if that makes you feel better about the fact that you're talking out of your ass. I have countered you on every single point you've tried to make and you have nothing for me. 

To summarize:

- You call everyone ignorant. This is you making a false assumption that nobody on here knows anything about Ashlee Simpson.

- You say the comments are "stupid" because you don't agree with them. All attempts to help you differentiate fact and opinion fail.

- Since you can't get past the fact that you aren't the only one who knows anything about music, and that you just might be jumping to a conclusion when you say "everyone's comment is stupid and uninformed", this is a lost cause. However, you wouldn't call everyone hypocrites if you could come to terms with the fact that there are indeed other people on here who also pay attention to Ashlee Simpson. This makes their comments NOT stupid, and at the same time, makes them not hypocrites. You ignore this.

- People post videos of her lipsynching and singing WAY off key. You ignore this as well and still praise her artistic talent.

- You admit that she doesn't write her own music, yet you still consider her a musician. I don't really know what else there is to say here.

- You compare her to Bruce Dickinson, one of the best metal vocalists of all time, and say that they are "doing the same thing" because they write lyrics. This is akin to me hammering a nail into a 2x4 and saying that me and the guy that built my house "do the same thing". True to form, you ignore this too.

- You say I should give you "proof" that she didn't use any vocal correction gear in the studio. I retort by saying that since you're the one making all the accusations, it should be on you to provide proof that she did not. I think that's fair, but once laid out you skimmed over that detail as well.

Did I miss anything? Other than you assuming that everyone here does nothing but listen to Slayer all day with a blindfold on?


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris is good at logic-pwning people.


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Dude you are so pulling crap out of your ass.

First I never said everone is ignorant, you are just assuming that, actually pretty much been debating with Wolf and a little with metalken up until you stepped in. You are the one that keeps saying i think everyone is ignorant, so maybe you are the one that feels that way.

Second I never said I know all, what i am saying is there is more to ashlee and pop music that you like to admit. 


Third you have really not proved anything except that you keep twisiting your own words as well as mine to try to justify yourself. You say i Keep saying the same stuff over, at least I stick to the same thing. I am not the one contradicting myself by saying, go ahead say what you want I dont care, and then getting all mad because I am expressing my opinions.





Chris said:


> Talking to you certainly is. You're more than welcome to continue being a pompous ass and ignoring everything I've contradicted you on if that makes you feel better about the fact that you're talking out of your ass. I have countered you on every single point you've tried to make and you have nothing for me.
> 
> To summarize:
> 
> ...


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Dude you are so pulling crap out of your ass.
> 
> First I never said everone is ignorant, you are just assuming that, actually pretty much been debating with Wolf and a little with metalken up until you stepped in. You are the one that keeps saying i think everyone is ignorant, so maybe you are the one that feels that way.
> 
> ...



Check your rep comments. It's not just Chris you've rubbed the wrong way.:-/


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Dude you are so pulling crap out of your ass.
> 
> First I never said everone is ignorant, you are just assuming that, actually pretty much been debating with Wolf and a little with metalken up until you stepped in. You are the one that keeps saying i think everyone is ignorant, so maybe you are the one that feels that way.
> 
> ...



hmmm, I think I remember you saying something like this:



siggy14 said:


> *I give up*, it is like trying to talk to a child..... *OK you win*, Ashlee sucks, Metal rule..... Hell yeah..



Who's the hypocrite now? Looks like you only said that so you could act like the bigger man while also trying to get in the last word, of course when someone else tries to say something you completely ignore the fact that you just said "I GIVE UP," and "OK YOU WIN."


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 24, 2008)

Troll ?


----------



## Naren (Feb 24, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Troll ?



It would seem that way...


----------



## Heavy Ed (Feb 24, 2008)

(this was a cool thread when it started)


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Yeah i know, appearntly people dont like hearing the truth. Dave was always telling me how this is such a great board, i dont see it at all. The people I have come in contact with seem just as close minded as the people that make fun of metal.

Call me a troll, call me what you want, I know who i am, i stick up for my beliefs.



distressed_romeo said:


> Check your rep comments. It's not just Chris you've rubbed the wrong way.:-/



Do you not see the sarcasim in post?



Lucky Seven said:


> hmmm, I think I remember you saying something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's the hypocrite now? Looks like you only said that so you could act like the bigger man while also trying to get in the last word, of course when someone else tries to say something you completely ignore the fact that you just said "I GIVE UP," and "OK YOU WIN."


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

I've seen people get banned for less than this...*hint hint*


----------



## siggy14 (Feb 24, 2008)

Dont worry, I just text messaged Dave (noodles) and asked him to cancel my account on here.

Say what you want guys about me, have fun as by what I have seen I can only imagine the wondefull comments to come. 

This is my last post, Chris feel free to cancel my account.



Lucky Seven said:


> I've seen people get banned for less than this...*hint hint*


----------



## Lucky Seven (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Do you not see the sarcasim in post?



Generally when you call someone childish and say that it's not worth arguing over sarcasm is not involved.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Dont worry, I just text messaged Dave (noodles) and asked him to cancel my account on here.
> 
> Say what you want guys about me, have fun as by what I have seen I can only imagine the wondefull comments to come.
> 
> This is my last post, Chris feel free to cancel my account.



I'm not going to waste 15 seconds canceling anything. If you don't like it here, just don't come back.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Yeah i know, appearntly people dont like hearing the truth.



Indeed. Let's see if you like it! 

You, to Ken:



> You words "im almost certain", but you are not so how can you blindly make a statement.



You, to Ken. This is you assuming that he doesn't know the full background, btw.



> Your statments alone pretty much show your content for certain artists with out actually knowing the full backround.



You, to Ken again, once again assuming that he doesn't know what he's talking about and coming off like a titanic prick in the process.



> Your statment is pointless and said out of desperation trying to justify your narrow minded thoughts



Here's you flat out making shit up when referring to Ashlee, because she doesn't write the songs.



> I agree 100%, to write a song that is loved by millions takes a talent, it may not be the most difficult, but it takes talent.



Here's you stating your opinion as fact. Even more, nobody, anywhere, said anything about her music being "sub par to their own". You invented this little tidbit to back up your own argument.



> Anyone that thinks any music is sub par to there own, or puts down any type of music is narrow minded



And here's Ken asking you to clarify, which you never do.



> When did i put down any genre of music or artists?



Here again is you assuming that nobody on here knows who she is. I don't think I have to explain why making such a sweeping generalization is poor form.



> People here are making an assumption about Ashley without really knowing who she is.



Here's you saying you backed up all your facts. I don't really see any fact-backing-up going on, just you rambling. Then you go on to dismiss everyone else's opinion as having no merit.



> The one thing you people neglect to notice is I have backed up all my facts, where other people keeping cursing and spewing out comments that have no merit backing those comments up.



Here you again mention statements on assumptions, which is ironic because *that is all you have done in this entire thread*.



> ONce again said members are making statments on assumptions, do you really call that intelligent conversation?



Now you're just getting sour grapes because face it, you're wrong.



> Dave was always telling me how this is such a great board, i dont see it at all. The people I have come in contact with seem just as close minded as the people that make fun of metal.


Here's you calling everyone closed minded after not only assuming that you are the only person who pays attention to pop music, you then ignore everyone else's opinion and again proclaim that only yours is valid. Then you go on to invent another point for your own argument, because nobody ever says "if it's not my music it's crap".



> Honestly you guys are the most closed minded people I have ever seen that think because it is not there music it is crap.



Here again you assume nobody knows about her band. There's irony here because you're taking a shot at us for making assumptions based on your own assumptions.



> well they are narrow minded and dont know much about said band and are making assumptions.



Here's you complaining about me not respecting your opinion after 27 pages of you shitting all over everyone else's.



> You are like dr jekel and my hyde, one minute you are saying i should respect the opinions of the board members, but next minute you are not respectiong mine



Here's you saying that Dickinson and Simpson are the same because they "do the same thing".



> Do you consider bruce dickenson from Iron maiden a musician, Dave said yes, ok then why dont you consider ashley, they both do the same thing, write lyrics.



Here's you, on page 28, saying I'm missing the big picture when all I've been doing is countering you.



> you are more caught up in defending the members here and are not really looking at the big picture.


----------



## Chris (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> Yeah i know, appearntly people dont like hearing the truth. Dave was always telling me how this is such a great board, i dont see it at all. The people I have come in contact with seem just as close minded as the people that make fun of metal.
> 
> Call me a troll, call me what you want, I know who i am, i stick up for my beliefs.



Actually, there's nothing at all that really separates you from all of the other people that come here every so often and presume to "tell us how it is". The mistake you made, like all the others, is that you assume we're just a bunch of dumb headbangers with no appreciation for anything that isn't metal. And just like every other holier-than-though grandstander, you left in a huff with a cheeseball "fuck you guys, I'm outta here" after we proved you wrong over and over again.

I have no hard feelings/malice/whatever towards you. Stick around and talk metal if you like. But if you're going to debate topics like this, if you can't stand people not agreeing with you then this probably isn't the best forum for you.


----------



## Naren (Feb 24, 2008)

Chris, you amaze me every day. 

The most awesome owning evah! Usin' his own words.


----------



## Memq (Feb 24, 2008)

"korn is bad" stupid enough to say that.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Nice job, Chris. Summarized what I said time and again, but this guy is very hard-headed.

As Ken pointed out, I'm a *huge* Prince fan. I don't know how he got it into his head that we're some "metal only" cult. Frankly, I'm personally very offended that he would insinuate I know nothing about popular music, and that he would compare the talent and years of artistic genius of Prince with Ashlee Simpson, and award her equal validity as an artist. I'm offended that he grandstanded as the only authority on this.

"Metal rule..." Where the hell did I claim even ONCE that metal was the only legitimate musical form? This guy operates under all kinds of blinders. I seriously question his ability to operate as a normal human being, and I don't say that to be insulting. I mean, I seriously do.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Feb 24, 2008)

It's also a bit rich of him to claim that we don't like it when people bash bands we like. Most people on these boards like Nevermore for instance, but no-one's offended when someone says they don't like Warrell's voice or Jeff's soloing style.
...And I'm pretty sure Chris mentioned he liked Avril Lavigne and Kelly Clarkson pretty early on in this arguement, so I'm not sure where the 'there's more to pop music than you want to admit' thing came from.

I also hate it when people assume all we like is metal... That would be why we have a dedicated jazz and acoustic section. 

I'm with TDW...I listen to everything from Amy Winehouse to Akercocke, and appreciate quality in most musical genres (hence my dislike of Ashlee).


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Yep. He came in with a ton of preconceptions, and then flagrantly applied them wherever he chose, even if they had ZERO basis in matching the facts.


Chris caught it - by O dude's logic, if I were to eat a $1 McDonald's Double Cheeseburger, and then state it's quality wasn't the same as the $30 Filet Mignon I had at Ahmed's Steakhouse, why... I'm a hypocrite! I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know all the facts about McDonalds.

I've never encountered such ridiculous thinking. And he stuck with his assumptions regardless of whatever was said. Usually, there's some sort of connection to reality in most arguments/debates, even if it's tenuous. But here? Nothing. Not even closely related to reality.




Hmm... that's a clever song title. 'Closely Related to Reality (Not Even)'


----------



## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Feb 24, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> i find it generally annoying when people think that fenders are the ultimate guitars ever, and that´s what they hope to own some day... when they play metal...
> 
> like, they don´t know what fenders really sound like, they just know that it´s "the best guitars evvar!"



Cryptopsy's None So Vile was recorded with a strat!  I get your point though, I feel the same way about les pauls for some reason


----------



## Groff (Feb 24, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> As Ken pointed out, I'm a *huge* Prince fan.



Holy shit... I thought I was the only one on this board who loved Prince!!

People who say prince is just gay and sings like a girl don't understand what prince is all about. I love his music. To not like him is one thing, but to just dismiss his music as 'gay' is just stupid.

I wish I still had my metal version of 'Kiss'... It went bye bye with my old computer's harddrive got fried


----------



## MerlinTKD (Feb 24, 2008)

Ashlee Simpson has great tits. 

Oh, she sings? I hadn't noticed. 


Back on topic... I had a conversation that went something like this (summarized for clarity):

I like all kinds of music.

-Didn't you say you couldn't stand country?

Well yeah, I pretty much hate country... gah, it's just...

-Waitaminute.. don't you have a CASH sticker? And a HANK sticker, too?

Well yeah... but they're _good_, you know, not like...

-And didn't you say you actually kinda liked the Dixie Chicks, and at the very 
least really respected them for taking a stand and not backing down?

Well... yeah... but...

-And you think Roy Clark is a great musician, and most of the local bands you go to see are americana and alt-country.




Sadly, the idiot first speaker... was me.


----------



## pardon miasma (Feb 24, 2008)

My mom did makeup for the Dixie Chicks back around the Home/Fly era, and would listen to their music constantly. Trying times.

Dragging things kicking and screaming back on topic, a friend claimed that Avenged Sevenfold's "Walk" was much better than the original, proceeded to claim that the original was by Slayer, and when corrected, scoffed, because "who has even heard of Pantera". I believe that adds up to three strikes.


----------



## noodles (Feb 24, 2008)




----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 24, 2008)

siggy14 said:


> And even metalken backed off, not saying he gave up, but either he had something to do, or just decided i had a valid point, or just figured it wasnt worth the fight.


I know this thread is closed, but I am totally not letting you get the last word in on that. I said FUCK IT. Your points were anything but valid. But it doesnt even matter now


----------

