# Heaviest sounding key/guitar tuning



## Abaddon9112 (Feb 23, 2013)

So I've always noticed that metal music written in certain keys or utilizing certain guitar tunings actually sounds "heavier" than that using others. This seems to have nothing to do with how low the guitar is tuned, but rather with some characteristic of the pitch itself. For example, I find the keys of Bb, B, Db, D, and F really conducive to brutal sounding music. They just have a dark and evil quality that the other keys don't have, for me. 

Granted, I've heard brutal metal written in every key. But whenever I say "Hmm maybe I'll tune to Drop A today" or the like, I always end up switching back because it's not heavy sounding enough to my ears. 

This may entirely be a product of my own warped mind. Maybe at some point in my past I heard some really fucking brutal music in the above keys and learned to associate it with heaviness itself. But I wanted to see if anybody else has weird key/tuning preferences that don't necessarily have to do with how low it is. Which do you think is the "heaviest"?


----------



## abandonist (Feb 23, 2013)

It's subjective. 

The only thing that's evidence based is minor keys sounding "sad" and majors sounding "happy" - for the most part.

Could also be due to the difference in tension of your dropped tuning that makes you not like the sound.


----------



## simonXsludge (Feb 23, 2013)

Yeah, I guess it is subjective. I find a low F to be one of the heaviest sounding notes ever. G and A# are pretty heavy sounding as well.


----------



## TheBloodstained (Feb 23, 2013)

Personally I think it's more about the production than the tuning when you want the br00tz!
With that said I usually find that B-standard or drop B tunings just sounds heavier to me. If I hear a band which I think got some really heavy riffs, chops, etc. and then looks at some tabs they're often in B for some reason! 
With the exception of Gojira who completely surprised me with their D-standard tuning


----------



## Don Vito (Feb 23, 2013)

I used to think you couldn't write dark melodic music in anything higher than D standard until I found Dissection and Emperor, who play in E standard.

E tuning in general sounds to upbeat and happy for most stuff, but works really well with black metal and thrash metal.

You also have to take into the account of the amp/tone.


I find this heavier than anything in F/G/A for the tone itself.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 23, 2013)

I find it hard to do slammish stuff in E, but anything lower, even Eb, works quite well. Hammer Smashed Face is in Eb and look how heavy it is. Although, my favorite tuning is B standard, sometimes maybe drop A.


----------



## ttiwguitar (Feb 23, 2013)

Don Vito said:


> I used to think you couldn't write dark melodic music in anything higher than D standard until I found Dissection and Emperor, who play in E standard.
> 
> E tuning in general sounds to upbeat and happy for most stuff, but works really well with black metal and thrash metal.
> 
> ...




Perfect example of lower not necessarily being heavier.


----------



## jonajon91 (Feb 23, 2013)

Back in baroque times every key had characteristics that set them apart despite the pitch. I don't remember many specifics, but I think F maj/min was considered cold and harsh, thats also why vivaldi's winter opens in F.


----------



## Ralyks (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm gonna go with the 'it's all relative' idea. Ex: I think the last two Overkill albums have some of the heaviest tone I've heard in some time, and both albums are in E Standard.

Don't forget, your hands have as much to do with tone as anything else.


----------



## kamello (Feb 23, 2013)

IMO, it ranges from A# to E (I specially Like C and B) but of course it depends on context and production

everything below that IMO starts getting waaaaaaaaay into djent-land, and while I dig the tone, I don't think it sounds heavy (maybe because the style of riffing most of the bands in those tunings use)


----------



## Wings of Obsidian (Feb 23, 2013)

Ladies and gentlemen...let us consider...

Opeth: E-standard. Heavy. 
Gojira: D-standard. BRUTAL!
Dissection: E-standard. Heavy.

Dismember, Unleashed, Entombed, the original Nihilist, etc. All the early Swedish Death Metal bands who pioneered the genre played in B-STANDARD. Not E. So whomever posted above...you are wrong. Believe me. I was there through that scene when it was kicking.

Of course, production plays a BIG role. Early Meshuggah was only half-a-step down (on a 7-string of course) and it was BRUTAL AS BALLS. But then, Upon a Burning Body play in either Drop-A or A-standard (on a 6-string) and they have a heavy, bouncy, percussive tone thanks to the production from Will Putney at the Machine Shop. (Listen to "Once Upon a Time in Mexico".)


----------



## Baelzebeard (Feb 23, 2013)

I think the actual pitch is very relative. I think the chord voicings, and note/chord progressions make a more drastic difference in feel/emotion/"heaviness". Early Celtic Frost is super heavy and dark sounding, and afaik it's all e-standard.

A good recording/production doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Basti (Feb 23, 2013)

The tuning has very little to do with how "heavy" a song is. I mean, Little Wing is the same tuning as Hammer Smashed face FFS


----------



## jimwratt (Feb 23, 2013)

Baelzebeard said:


> I think the actual pitch is very relative. I think the chord voicings, and note/chord progressions make a more drastic difference in feel/emotion/"heaviness". Early Celtic Frost is super heavy and dark sounding, and afaik it's all e-standard.
> 
> A good recording/production doesn't hurt either.



This. You don't have to tune differently to play in different keys. Most folks just have a tendency to write based off of open strings which changes things when it comes to transposing. You HAVE to downtune to play some things in a different key. The other thing is that the overtone content can change when you're in a different place on the neck. Playing something simple like Iron Man in second position has a different sound than playing it in 7th position up on the E string. I've even noticed that I get a different sound playing a bar chord on the 7th fret and then downtuning a half step and playing it on the 8th. Same voicing, same key, but at a different position on the fretboard. It gets darker the closer to the bridge you get.


----------



## 7stringDemon (Feb 23, 2013)

A. Fucking. Sharp. 

Drop A# more specifically. A# Standard just doesn't have the same feel for me. 

It combines the thickness if Drop A with the added clarity, harshness and aggression of Drop B.


----------



## Don Vito (Feb 23, 2013)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Ladies and gentlemen...let us consider...
> 
> Opeth: E-standard. Heavy.
> Gojira: D-standard. BRUTAL!
> ...


If you're referring to me, I never implied they played in E. Please point out where I did.

I pointed out that the tone in Swedish Death Metal played a part in the heaviness of the music.


----------



## InfinityCollision (Feb 23, 2013)

jonajon91 said:


> Back in baroque times every key had characteristics that set them apart despite the pitch. I don't remember many specifics, but I think F maj/min was considered cold and harsh, thats also why vivaldi's winter opens in F.



This isn't really applicable for most modern Western music, as it was a product of just intonation tuning. Maybe if you're playing on True Temperament frets.


----------



## abandonist (Feb 23, 2013)

kamello said:


> everything below that IMO starts getting waaaaaaaaay into djent-land



Only if you're playing that way. I tune low as fuck and play sludge. It sounds literally nothing like djent in tone.


----------



## Chuck (Feb 24, 2013)

I don't understand how a certain collection of pitches sounds any heavier than another. For instance the key of D and A are the same minus, just a few things, such as tonic, leading tone, dominants, placement of modes, etc etc.

Maybe uses of some scales could result in "heavier" sounds, but its subjective anyway. 

No one key sounds different from another (in color) because we have equal temperament anyways.


----------



## Chuck (Feb 24, 2013)

7stringDemon said:


> A. Fucking. Sharp.
> 
> Drop A# more specifically. A# Standard just doesn't have the same feel for me.
> 
> It combines the thickness if Drop A with the added clarity, harshness and aggression of Drop B.



I just like drop A


----------



## Abaddon9112 (Feb 24, 2013)

Misery Theory said:


> I don't understand how a certain collection of pitches sounds any heavier than another. For instance the key of D and A are the same minus, just a few things, such as tonic, leading tone, dominants, placement of modes, etc etc.
> 
> Maybe uses of some scales could result in "heavier" sounds, but its subjective anyway.
> 
> No one key sounds different from another (in color) because we have equal temperament anyways.




I dunno, I've always been able to identify pitch classes and keys by ear really well, and they just all sound kinda different to me. 

Most people would agree yeah, major keys sound happy and minor keys sound sad. But because the notes all sound distinct to me, something in E sounds positive and uplifting while something in Db sounds oppressive and "heavy". 

I know the feeling I associate with the particular pitch class is totally subjective, but I just wanted to figure out if I'm alone in my association of pitch with the character or feel of a piece of music. 

Maybe I'm just nuts . I also have a little bit of pitch synesthesia. E's are blue, A's are red, and so forth lol


----------



## Goro923 (Feb 24, 2013)

The palm-muted riff from 0:08 to 0:15 akes my speakers crap out every time. So it's gotta be what, Drop A? Drop G? Drop F?




Eb Standard.


I rest my case.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 24, 2013)

jonajon91 said:


> Back in baroque times every key had characteristics that set them apart despite the pitch. I don't remember many specifics, but I think F maj/min was considered cold and harsh, thats also why vivaldi's winter opens in F.



Considering that there probably wasn't a standard pitch until the 1800's, I would strongly question this assertion. Where just intonation really affected music was the difference between consonance and dissonance: consonances were _really, really_ consonant, and dissonances were _really, really_ dissonant. You can't write equally in all keys using just intonation. However, going out to the farthest tonal reaches (tonicizing a key a tritone or minor second away from the fundamental) and making your way back to the tonic felt really good on those JI instruments because tonic sounded hella tonic and dominant sounded hella dominant.


----------



## Shredderboy1658 (Feb 24, 2013)

2:13


----------



## noUser01 (Feb 25, 2013)

Certain things sounding heavier then others I think has more to do with:

- The parts you write
- How you play them
- Where they are on the guitar
- The relative tension of that part of the guitar

For example, no matter what tuning I'm in, playing a power chord on the first fret of my lowest string sounds BRUUUUTAL to me, more so than the other chords. I think it's more about the way it sits on the instrument and how it affects the guitar itself, the tension perhaps having an affect on it. But either way, this is all subjective and unproven.


----------



## abandonist (Feb 25, 2013)

Shredderboy1658 said:


> 2:13





I just can't get past that neck tattoo.


----------



## hairychris (Feb 25, 2013)

There's also a noticeable difference in where you physically "feel" the music. Stick with me on this one:

My old band used to play in E standard. The punch of a palm-muted E hit around the solar plexus area.

Tuning down makes that punch move downward. Playing in B has a different impact, lower in the stomach. This is with strings that are tensioned similarly (not like Entombed who played low with very loose strings...). 

Weird, maybe, but there is definitely a difference. Admittedly this is at high volume levels.

Otherwise heavy is pretty much what you make of it. My old E-tuned band were pretty nasty, with the heaviness coming across because of how we wrote and played.

Whatever. ;-)


----------



## Jakke (Feb 25, 2013)

Well, I do know that D minor is the saddest of all keys..

But heaviest? I have no idea..


----------



## Orsinium (Feb 25, 2013)

I know its already been said but it doesn't matter what tuning your in it's all about technique and the tone. You can technically play the same riffs in most tunings on something like an 8 or 7 string the different tunings really just affect the timbre of your open notes  Edit: But e standard can definitely be heavy


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 25, 2013)

hairychris said:


> There's also a noticeable difference in where you physically "feel" the music. Stick with me on this one:
> 
> My old band used to play in E standard. The punch of a palm-muted E hit around the solar plexus area.
> 
> ...



This is due to your personal physiology. Resonant frequencies, and all that. For someone larger or smaller, or somebody whose bones and cavities are a different size and density than yours, will have a different experience. There was a bathroom stall in the music building next to the choir room. Anytime the choir hit a G, the stall would resonate.  If you test the bathroom stalls near you, you will likely find that not all of them (if any of them) resonate on a G.


----------



## cGoEcYk (Feb 25, 2013)

Gojira is in Drop D and their stuff is amazingly heavy. I dunno how they do it! The drums are mixed awesome, perhaps. Heaviest Matter of The Universe.

I am happy with drop B myself. I like to keep my 5 string bass in standard for tone/tension.


----------



## gunch (Feb 25, 2013)

C# and G#


----------



## iRaiseTheDead (Feb 25, 2013)

Winds of Plague plays in Drop D/E Standard and the guitars sound nice and thick and br00tz


----------



## Abolyshed (Feb 25, 2013)

Yo emperor does this thing where they makea low chord with the bass and guitar. The bass plays the root note and the guitar plays a 5th and an octave, so for example (standard tuning) bass plays open A and guitar plays open E and A, what this does is make them (bass and guitar together) sound like a 7 string guitar tuned to drop A. The bass is playing the root and guitar is filling in the higher notes, because a 6 string cant play that low A but the bass can. Only thing is theres no Bass drop A note right, like most bands with a 7 string have a 5 string to match octaves. This chord Ive just talked about makes them play 5ths instead of octaves. This makes a 6 string standard tuned guitar sound like a 7 string in drop A, pretty heavy. Lots of bands do it.


----------



## Transmissions (Feb 25, 2013)

Harmonic minor+drop tunings is the easy way to evil sounding stuff.


----------



## sear (Feb 26, 2013)

1. Use the diminished scale.

2. You just made a heavy as shit metal song!


----------



## Shredderboy1658 (Feb 26, 2013)

abandonist said:


> I just can't get past that neck tattoo.


In a good or bad way? lol, personally I love it.


----------



## BenSolace (Feb 26, 2013)

Jakke said:


> *Well, I do know that D minor is the saddest of all keys..*
> But heaviest? I have no idea..



ARGH! I was skim reading all the replies to post that first


----------



## goldsteinat0r (Feb 26, 2013)

The mood of a piece of music is really down to the key, but the "heaviness" has more to do with the mix and the feel of the music. A perfect example to me is Whitechapel's New Era record - its entirely Drop A but it doesn't sound nearly as heavy as say, Pathology's most recent album which is in the same tuning (I think) but has this sub bass meat to it that makes it one of the most crushing sounding records I've ever heard. The WC record is by no means crappy, but the guitars just have a mushiness to them and the whole mix, while balanced, seemed to lack balls.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 26, 2013)

going with the example above, I Declare War, Periphery and Within The Ruins all use the same tuning, drop Ab/G#, and they all sound completely different and are heavy in their own way. it all comes down to how you want to convey the "heaviness"


----------



## leoseanster12 (Feb 27, 2013)

Heavy keys? Well all keys can be made heavy. I'll emphasise arrangement and production like most have said here, and instead of referring to death or contemporary metal, we can go to the 'classics'.

Metallica? Master of puppets can still make anyone's 'top 5 heavy songs' list.
Megadeath? Tornado of Souls and holy wars still sound as heavy to me as meshuggah's bleed.
Randy Rhoads? For its relative simplicity, crazy train's opening riff is still fookin heavy...remember hearing it for the first time?
George lynch? The entire of mr. Scary still sends chills down my spine for being so heavy.
The Beatles?? Yeah, I know, the Beatles right? But I only got 5 words here. Opening of She's so Heavy. Nuff said.

I could go on and on, but I think I've overused the word 'heavy' right about now. Point is, these artists and songs I've just mentioned all used standard tunings. This should be enough proof that heaviness stems mostly from good songwriting, and some decent production and post-mixing. Granted that drop tunings add a different dimension, but just cause its lower doesn't mean it'll sound 'heavier'.


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Feb 27, 2013)

sear said:


> 1. Use the diminished scale.
> 
> 2. You just made a heavy as shit metal song!


 
1. Use the chromatic scale

2. This shit is called slam death


----------



## cichra (Feb 28, 2013)

A good example of a modern band that use E standard tuning and are heavy as hell is Sylosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tocEwt4HHOg

In interviews they've said that with standard tuning you can use more of a scooped-mid tone, which they prefer. When you use lower tunings, you have to add more mids to keep things from getting muddy.

You'll notice in this song and others that to create heavy sounds in standard tuning they'll play a lot of low two-note barre chords on the E and A strings (like Metallica did in the song ...And Justice for All).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXdPoL1yQsA


----------

