# Drop Bb with Ec-1000?



## Breakdown (Oct 6, 2009)

I might buy an ec 1000 vb maybe today (if the guy hasnt sold it yet) but I want to know how stable drop B or Bb tuning would be on it (without some ridiculously thick strings I.E 68's). Ive seen a lot of bands that tune to drop B or lower using the eclipse models (the acacia strain, Parkway drive, Architects (uk) ) but in most cases I also see the other guitarist has an mh-400nt or other 25.5 " scale guitar (which im think might be to make up for the EC's muddiness). I love the way ESP/LTD's sound and I like the ec 1000 but how would it sound in tunings that low and would it intonate well? I know I would need thick strings but I dont want to use anything thicker than a 59 or 60
Or should I just get a 25.5 scale guitar (im also thinking of getting a MH 400nt or h-1001)? 
thanks for reading guys.


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## BlindingLight7 (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm not going to bother to read anything you typed, But Drop Bb is fine on a 24'7 scale. I'd go with 12-60 gauge strings...I tune to Bb on my 7 with a 56, so 60 should be the equal...maybe even a 58.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 6, 2009)

I know that Mark (mrp5150) and I have done it before. In fact, I've tuned almost every single one of my 6 strings this way in the past. A .60 gauge string should be plenty.


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm a former EC1000VB owner and I think my experiences may be of interest to you...

First of all, this guitar is a great value. It plays great, sounds great, very high quality and nice feature set for the price. However... there were issues with it tuning it down to B or lower.

The issue isn't the scale length. The tension was fine, it was able to intonate fine. The main problem I ran into was the nut is not slotted for heavy gauge strings, so when I went from the stock 9s or 10s to a 12-52 set (pretty light by B tuning standards but I find lighter B strings sound better), the strings were sitting on top of the nut causing high action.

So, basically... be prepared to have work done on the nut (or have a new nut made) if you want to enjoy the sweet low action and comfort like it comes stock. Especially if you plan on using something like a .060 gauge.

Great guitar, but this is why guitars with floyd rose nuts are always more friendly to lower tunings on 6-strings, unless the guitar was designed for such a tuning like a baritone model. Fortunately nuts are easy to replace, although I know the ESP uses those special "Earvana" ones so I don't know.


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## g93 (Oct 6, 2009)

I use a .54 for my low B. .56 or .58 should work fine


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## Breakdown (Oct 6, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> I'm a former EC1000VB owner and I think my experiences may be of interest to you...
> 
> First of all, this guitar is a great value. It plays great, sounds great, very high quality and nice feature set for the price. However... there were issues with it tuning it down to B or lower.
> 
> ...


 thanks
i was actually thinking more along the lines of 11 or 12-54. yeah those earvana nuts look kind of funky. I dont mind a bit higher action I kind of prefer it actually it make the guitar feel more sturdy to me.


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2009)

Breakdown said:


> thanks
> i was actually thinking more along the lines of 11 or 12-54. yeah those earvana nuts look kind of funky. I dont mind a bit higher action I kind of prefer it actually it make the guitar feel more sturdy to me.



No dude, you don't want it to be higher action due to the nut not being slotted properly. It causes all kinds of headaches. It's not more sturdy. I did my best to warn you, you can proceed as you wish. All I'll say is if I were you I'd be prepared to have a tech work on that nut. Hardtails will always play and sound better when the nut is made with the string gauge in mind.


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## yamahasoldier (Oct 6, 2009)

I own an ESP Eclipse II, and it buzzes real bad when dropped down just half a step. And were talking buzz that bleads through the amp. Its been set up, and set up , and setup. I think the problem is the XJ frets on it. I wouldnt suggest buying the ec-1000 if you wanna play that low. Id go with a longer scale honestly, even though some 24.75 scales can handle it. Also, i used to post alot on the esp forums, and brought up the eclipse low tuning buzz problems, and i wasnt the only one who has battled this issue. My eclipse is accually hanging on a wall on concinement at my local esp dealer, cause i need more than a one trick tuning pony. I wish you the best of luck though.


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2009)

yamahasoldier said:


> I own an ESP Eclipse II, and it buzzes real bad when dropped down just half a step. And were talking buzz that bleads through the amp. Its been set up, and set up , and setup. I think the problem is the XJ frets on it. I wouldnt suggest buying the ec-1000 if you wanna play that low. Id go with a longer scale honestly, even though some 24.75 scales can handle it. Also, i used to post alot on the esp forums, and brought up the eclipse low tuning buzz problems, and i wasnt the only one who has battled this issue. My eclipse is accually hanging on a wall on concinement at my local esp dealer, cause i need more than a one trick tuning pony. I wish you the best of luck though.



That's a fret and/or nut issue, nothing a longer scale would alleviate.


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## FretWizard88 (Oct 6, 2009)

I tune down even lower than that on my 6 LTD and I have no problems. I use D'addario 13-56 gauge strings.


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2009)

FretWizard88 said:


> I tune down even lower than that on my 6 LTD and I have no problems. I use D'addario 13-56 gauge strings.



Luck of the draw dude. Sometimes the nut will be slotted properly and sometimes it won't. I've tuned down probably 50+ 6'ers to B or lower probably over the years. Sometimes it works like a charm, sometimes the nut needs work. All I can say on the EC1000s I think this might be a common issue.


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## conorreich (Oct 6, 2009)

you could always get the baritone mh -400 if your that worried about the muddiness, but i used to tune my 24.75 inch scale viper down to b standard but when i had the earvana nut on it, it was a problem. just minor buzzing and stuff


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## yamahasoldier (Oct 6, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> That's a fret and/or nut issue, nothing a longer scale would alleviate.



Longer scale = more string tension, less string buzz. I know its a fret problem. Thats why i said i believe its the XJ frets that ESP uses. My edwards lp custom has jumbo frets and it handles lower tunings with no problem.


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## budda (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd just get the nut re-slotted for the thicker strings - shouldn't cost you much.


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## I_infect (Oct 6, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> Luck of the draw dude. Sometimes the nut will be slotted properly and sometimes it won't.




 True. I use 11-52's on LPs, and I've cracked a nut on a _52_. Hit and miss... however most Schecters will take a 52 no prob. I wouldn't even mess with any higher gauge than that on a 6.


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## Breakdown (Oct 6, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> No dude, you don't want it to be higher action due to the nut not being slotted properly. It causes all kinds of headaches. It's not more sturdy. I did my best to warn you, you can proceed as you wish. All I'll say is if I were you I'd be prepared to have a tech work on that nut. Hardtails will always play and sound better when the nut is made with the string gauge in mind.


I know man Im was just saying the string guage I had in mind didnt say I was gonna do it. I was expecting truss rod work maybe to compensate for the extra tension but not a nut job. I know it probably isnt expensive but im thinking that im only going to be able to use heavy strings after the nut job am I wrong?


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## zimbloth (Oct 6, 2009)

yamahasoldier said:


> Longer scale = more string tension, less string buzz. I know its a fret problem. Thats why i said i believe its the XJ frets that ESP uses. My edwards lp custom has jumbo frets and it handles lower tunings with no problem.



Eh, marginally. Buzzing issues that would be audible through an amp would be due to a fret or nut problem, as you know. 

But yeah dude, like I said it just depends. I was simply letting the OP know my experiences with the ESP earvana nuts. A guitar can have a 23 inch scale and Dunlop 6000 frets and be fine if the nut and setup is right. Likewise you can have a baritone with medium frets and be in a world of hurt if the nut isn't properly slotted. 




budda said:


> I'd just get the nut re-slotted for the thicker strings - shouldn't cost you much.





I_infect said:


> True. I use 11-52's on LPs, and I've cracked a nut on a _52_. Hit and miss... however most Schecters will take a 52 no prob. I wouldn't even mess with any higher gauge than that on a 6.







Breakdown said:


> I know man Im was just saying the string guage I had in mind didnt say I was gonna do it. I was expecting truss rod work maybe to compensate for the extra tension but not a nut job. I know it probably isnt expensive but im thinking that im only going to be able to use heavy strings after the nut job am I wrong?



Truss rod really has no bearing on tension whatsoever. A properly setup neck can definitely alleviate some buzzing/action issues, but if the problem persists even with a straight neck, then its most likely the nut. Again dude, these guitars' nuts are slotted for people using 9's or 10's. Often if you put 11s it can be fine, but when you start to go to 12s and 13s issues can potentially arise.

Best of luck man, hopefully it works out. Like Budda said, if it is a nut issue, thats a very cheap fix so no worries.


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## TheMasterplan (Oct 6, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> The issue isn't the scale length. The tension was fine, it was able to intonate fine. The main problem I ran into was the nut is not slotted for heavy gauge strings, so when I went from the stock 9s or 10s to a 12-52 set (pretty light by B tuning standards but I find lighter B strings sound better), the strings were sitting on top of the nut causing high action.
> 
> So, basically... be prepared to have work done on the nut (or have a new nut made) if you want to enjoy the sweet low action and comfort like it comes stock. Especially if you plan on using something like a .060 gauge.



This.

I own an Epiphone Les Paul 7 string which is also a 24.75" scale and this is the same issue I have. Everything sounds fine, but I tune Bb, sometimes with a dropped Ab [D# A# F# C# G# D# G#] and I use a .060 and it sounds excellent. But I needed the nut to get filed out to accommodate the higher gauge. Not a major issue, but it is irreversible i.e. if you want to switch back to lighter strings you may find yourself needing a new nut because with the newly hollowed space and the lack of string it'll buzz/rattle a bit.


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## The Echthros (Oct 7, 2009)

I think you should decide what tuning you want this guitar in and just use this guitar for that tuning. If you fear you may want to go back to C or D standard later or something then don't change the nut/nut slots and keep this guitar for those tunings and use your 7620 for the low stuff.


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 7, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> No dude, you don't want it to be higher action due to the nut not being slotted properly. It causes all kinds of headaches. It's not more sturdy. I did my best to warn you, you can proceed as you wish. All I'll say is if I were you I'd be prepared to have a tech work on that nut. Hardtails will always play and sound better when the nut is made with the string gauge in mind.



 I recommend he practises filing a nut on a beater guitar if he has one. I have no idea where to get filing sets from though


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## budda (Oct 7, 2009)

Stewart-MacDonald: Everything for building and repairing stringed instruments!


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 7, 2009)

budda said:


> Stewart-MacDonald: Everything for building and repairing stringed instruments!


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## helly (Oct 7, 2009)

It can definitely be done with no buzz and no slop. I run drop B flat on my Edwards Les Paul no problem. It takes a pro setup, and probably a fret dress, but it can be done. I prefer bigger strings, generally D'Addario 13-62 light baritones, but when I can't find those, I'll buy the 10-59 7 string set and throw away the 10, leaving 13-59.


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## Sweetbabyjezuz (Oct 7, 2009)

The other guitarist in our band has a red one, we play C Standard or Drop Bb depending on the song.. seems to work out fine no problems for him the past 2 years??? *shrug*


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## Haunted (Oct 7, 2009)

I tune to C standard - drop Bb on my eclipse 2..works fine after a pro setup with EB strings 13-58, a 60 would be better for Bb but i can't find it anywhere
It has that In Flames sound I've been looking for when I bought it
no Djent though, smooth crushing low mid sound
you'll defiantly will need to file the nut... and having a fret job is recommended


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## Breakdown (Oct 8, 2009)

Haunted said:


> I tune to C standard - drop Bb on my eclipse 2..works fine after a pro setup with EB strings 13-58, a 60 would be better for Bb but i can't find it anywhere
> It has that In Flames sound I've been looking for when I bought it
> no Djent though, smooth crushing low mid sound
> you'll defiantly will need to file the nut... and having a fret job is recommended



After hearing all your guys' answers it sounds like if I dont want a flubby B string Ill have to file the nut.

Ill stick with 10-52's or 11-50's in drop c - standard then. leaves more options open 
lol

Im almost certain im going to get the gutiar but the CL seller is out of the country right . Im most likely going to get it Sun or monday (if another guy doesnt buy it earlier).


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## helly (Oct 8, 2009)

For what its worth, I have a couple friends in a band out here who play in drop B with 12-54s, I believe, or maybe even a bit smaller than that. Its worth trying, especially considering that any factory made guitar should get a setup at least, if not fret work, and any decent setup will include filing the nut to fit your strings of choice.


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## chubby-ol-gangster-core (Jan 16, 2012)

yamahasoldier said:


> I own an ESP Eclipse II, and it buzzes real bad when dropped down just half a step. And were talking buzz that bleads through the amp. Its been set up, and set up , and setup. I think the problem is the XJ frets on it. I wouldnt suggest buying the ec-1000 if you wanna play that low. Id go with a longer scale honestly, even though some 24.75 scales can handle it. Also, i used to post alot on the esp forums, and brought up the eclipse low tuning buzz problems, and i wasnt the only one who has battled this issue. My eclipse is accually hanging on a wall on concinement at my local esp dealer, cause i need more than a one trick tuning pony. I wish you the best of luck though.



maybe you just got a bad one out of the batch? My schecter (even with a longer scale, just hear me out) has 24 xj frets and I can play it in g#.. make sure your strings are thick enough and that the bridge and neck are set up right.. some guy at my local shop was setting mine up and did an AWFUL JOB and he did just as bad of a job trying to fix his mistake.. then just asking a different guy who worked there did the trick xD. If you're setting it up yourself though, i don't know what to tell you.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 16, 2012)

chubby-ol-gangster-core said:


> maybe you just got a bad one out of the batch? My schecter (even with a longer scale, just hear me out) has 24 xj frets and I can play it in g#.. make sure your strings are thick enough and that the bridge and neck are set up right.. some guy at my local shop was setting mine up and did an AWFUL JOB and he did just as bad of a job trying to fix his mistake.. then just asking a different guy who worked there did the trick xD. If you're setting it up yourself though, i don't know what to tell you.


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## chubby-ol-gangster-core (Jan 16, 2012)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



god, i must be tired XD


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## kevdes93 (Jan 16, 2012)

i had mine set wit a .58 on the low string and i brought it down to drop A and drop G# no problem, but i like a little give to my strings


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## Andromalia (Jan 16, 2012)

As a side note, my ESP Viper standard tuners wouldn't take heavier than 52 gauge so just check what these are on this model.


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## FireInside (Jan 16, 2012)

Breakdown said:


> After hearing all your guys' answers it sounds like if I dont want a flubby B string Ill have to file the nut.
> 
> Ill stick with 10-52's or 11-50's in drop c - standard then. leaves more options open
> lol



I have my EC-1000 tuned to drop C with 11-54's on it and I have had zero issues. Feel great to me (some might disagree) and sounds amazing. EC-1000 are a great value and (to me at least) are amazing guitars. Do it bro.


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## postalrecon (Jan 17, 2012)

i just got mine set up for Drop A# but im using the d'addario baritone set .014-.068.

Works like a charm


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2012)

Well, since this thread hasn't died yet, I'll add my own say. 

I use D'addario .13's - .56's on my EC-50. I somtimes tune to Bb. It works really well with that tuning, IMO. Its flexible, but not too wobbly. Would be good if you're into playing leads or doing a lot of bends.


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## gunch (Jan 17, 2012)

postalrecon said:


> i just got mine set up for Drop A# but im using the d'addario baritone set .014-.068.
> 
> Works like a charm



A# and Bb are the same thing.


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## subzero (Jan 18, 2012)

postalrecon said:


> i just got mine set up for Drop A# but im using the d'addario baritone set .014-.068.
> 
> Works like a charm


 
ive and old epi lp set up the exacty same way works a treat . but as been mention before the nut will need to filed out and the guitar set up but otherwise there should be no problem at all .


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## postalrecon (Jan 22, 2012)

silverabyss said:


> A# and Bb are the same thing.



I'm aware of this


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