# What are some common things you do to superior drummer velocities?



## thevisi0nary (Jun 10, 2015)

I know there are other threads about the basic things but i am interested in what most people do and personal opinions and tricks.


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## Furyof (Jun 11, 2015)

I try to humanize them with velocities. I try to think of how a human would play. Personally I usually keep the snare high velocity at all times, except again on fills. I also humanize the velocity of the double bass parts. That's me though as a novice musician.


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## QuantumCybin (Jun 11, 2015)

Too lazy to embed it but you can watch Misha Mansoor's drum programming tutorials, he has some useful info if you've never programmed drums before. When it comes to double bass parts for example, I try to think of right foot preference/dominance, making the kick you hit with your right foot slightly harder than your left. Ghost notes on the snare can make things more realistic, as well as using the pedal hat, as that can give a more "live" feel, as drummers typically keep time with the pedal hat when it's convenient.


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## Zei (Jun 11, 2015)

Programming good drums is really tedious but oooooohhhhh so worth it. I'll spend hours editing velocities and quantizing things so they sound more realistic. 

Quick tips:
- Keep your "normal" hits a little lower than 127. I like to think my drummer isn't going 100% all the time and this saves some room for when you want a really loud smack during a fill or important section.
- Randomly quantize - with taste - snare rolls, blast beats, fast double bass, fast cymbal hits (like a 16th note pattern on the high-hat). Misha talks about this in his video. 

Snare: I keep my regular hits around 117. My ghost notes probably lie somewhere around 70 or 80. 

Kick: I like it at 120. That's the spot for my SD kit where if I go up I don't get a tighter tone, it just gets louder (maybe a little more smack, but I like that for heavy fills). Change velocity on fast successive hits. Depending on the time sig, I'll do (120, 110, 117, 109) for a simple sig or (120, 110, 117) for a compound. It helps to humanize quite a lot.

Cymbals: I'll keep these around 100 unless I really need to change them. I mainly go down in velocity for softer hits (like an 1/8 note ride pattern... 100 for the beats and ~70 for the &'s), and up to accent the other instruments. 

Toms: They're .... at 100. I click somewhere up to 120, but no lower than 110. I'm not too picky about an actual number. "My drummer" will just hit those with the only thought being "hit hard enough for a smack". 

And then try to have fun  When starting it can suck, but you learn fast. I started programming in GP5.2 and, other than velocities, it was a good way to visualize everything and learn.


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## Enselmis (Jun 19, 2015)

What the guy above me said but wayyyyyy more extreme. Ghost notes around 70 or 80 is ridiculous, they really only need to be between 30-40. For basic snare hits, between 85-105 seems to have the best samples. Kick drum should sit around the same area as snare drum. 

The main problem people have with superior drummer is that they try to achieve volume and power by using higher velocity samples instead of using compression, limiting and EQ and reverb. When using lower velocities the sound might not reveal itself instantly but once you slam the snare with an 1176 and bring in some room mics, you'll notice pretty darn quickly how much better the overall sound is. Do not be discouraged if they don't sound huge before you start fleshing out the mix. They aren't supposed to. They're natural drums.


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## boobstastegreat (Jun 19, 2015)

Enselmis said:


> What the guy above me said but wayyyyyy more extreme. Ghost notes around 70 or 80 is ridiculous, they really only need to be between 30-40. For basic snare hits, between 85-105 seems to have the best samples. Kick drum should sit around the same area as snare drum.
> 
> The main problem people have with superior drummer is that they try to achieve volume and power by using higher velocity samples instead of using compression, limiting and EQ and reverb. When using lower velocities the sound might not reveal itself instantly but once you slam the snare with an 1176 and bring in some room mics, you'll notice pretty darn quickly how much better the overall sound is. Do not be discouraged if they don't sound huge before you start fleshing out the mix. They aren't supposed to. They're natural drums.



This is all correct. Don't be afraid to use some of the preset mixes in the superior mixer before you start programming the midi. This might help you get a better sense of what the velocities will sound like realistically.


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## Fretless (Jun 19, 2015)

I work very hard with my humanization. Rather than explain what I do, since everyone has it covered, I will show you what lengths I go to and what I think you need to aim for if you really want to make your drums sound realistic.

I'm working on a cover of a Symphony X song, so here are some screenshots from that.

Whole drum midi view on piano roll







Close up of a random part to show velocities






No two notes line up at the same time, nor have the exact velocity. There is always a difference, no matter how small. Nothing is lined up perfectly on the grid either. There is always drift.


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## Vres (Jun 20, 2015)

Kick, snare and hard tom hits are 127 for me. Basic hats are somewhere around 60-70. When you want it to sound like the drums are being hit hard (like I mostly do), do not go hyper with the velocity humanization. The automatic humanization such as alternating the drum samples, takes care of humanization for example in the case of snares when they're max velocity. Of course SD does it anyways regardless of velocities, if the feature is enabled, but you get my point here. This all depends on the samples being used though.


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## jerm (Jun 20, 2015)

Attached is what I do.

I basically humanize between 10-20% using different base velocities for each part of the kit.

I will also eventually put a timing % so that it isn't 100% on time.


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## manana (Jun 21, 2015)

jerm said:


> Attached is what I do.
> 
> I basically humanize between 10-20% using different base velocities for each part of the kit.
> 
> I will also eventually put a timing % so that it isn't 100% on time.



It might help you to use the diamond view in midi editor (alt+7 I think)


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## jerm (Jun 22, 2015)

^I actually prefer that view hah


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## Fretless (Jun 22, 2015)

jerm said:


> ^I actually prefer that view hah



I never liked the diamond view myself. I always felt weird since all other midi related stuff I did was done with bars. So I just grew used to working with midi bars.


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## Vhyle (Jun 22, 2015)

I humanize them with lots of variations in velocities, by a wide margin. I've been drumming for almost 20 years, so I try to mimic my own drumming. 

I also shift notes a touch left and right, or program odd-time/slightly sloppy fills, to add to the human factor. It takes a lot of tedious work to truly humanize programmed drums, and you will eventually fry your brain after doing it for hours, but the end result is always worth it.


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## ikarus (Jun 23, 2015)

wow, what an interesting thread. I will start programming drums for the first time in a couple days, so this really helps me a lot. 

Do you guys also humanize with putting the notes slightly of the beat? If yes do you do it by hand or do you let SD do it for you?

Also is there a website/video etc. where I can learn the basics of metal druming/programming? Like for fills you have to do that or for a verse you can try this pattern, etc... 

thanks


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## Lain (Jun 23, 2015)

> Do you guys also humanize with putting the notes slightly of the beat? If yes do you do it by hand or do you let SD do it for you?


Yes. 
Personally i never use the built in humanize functions/presets and rather make it by hand. Gives better results imo.


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## ikarus (Jun 23, 2015)

Lain said:


> Yes.
> Personally i never use the built in humanize functions/presets and rather make it by hand. Gives better results imo.



ok, can you enlighten me on your process?


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## Lain (Jun 23, 2015)

Well, by hand. Depends on the DAW i suppose. Don't know what to say really.... 
It's pretty much described in this thread? Even with screenshots. Also watch Misha's videos. They are quite good.
I once programmed a little app that would humanize for me but in the end it acted just like the built in humanizing from VSTi's. Because the thing is that you have to think like a drummer instead of just randomizing it. 
Let's say there is a drumroll... what you will find is that a lot of drummers start with a different velocity than they finish. Listen to drummers you like and watch for where and when they hit hard or soft. Listen to the tiniest differences. 
And then i do it by hand. I literally drag notes a bit off the beat and enter the velocities manually. It's boring and tedious but it works....


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## Fretless (Jun 23, 2015)

ikarus said:


> ok, can you enlighten me on your process?



Pretty much look at my screenshots. They show everything you need to know about hand humanization.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Jun 23, 2015)

Fretless said:


> I never liked the diamond view myself. I always felt weird since all other midi related stuff I did was done with bars. So I just grew used to working with midi bars.



I used to do that, but then if you use half notes/quarter notes/16th notes and hit the humanize button, it adjusts them based on their value- so your fast kick/snare hits will get way more messed-with relative to the tempo than your cymbal hits if you just do a straight 10-15% randomization. The solution is obviously to just use the same value for every note, but then you have to reduce everything to the lowest common denominator note value so they don't run into each other.


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## ikarus (Jun 23, 2015)

Fretless said:


> Pretty much look at my screenshots. They show everything you need to know about hand humanization.



ok just to get it right: you take some (or all?) of the notes and put them slightly before/after the beat. right?


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## Lain (Jun 24, 2015)

Some, not all. And only a tiny bit. You don't want it to sound like the drummer is bad.


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## ikarus (Jun 24, 2015)

ok thanks for the answer. 

Is there a way to set the "standard velocity" in cubase? Whenever I add a note it has the value 100. Is there a way to set the stanard for every new note to lets say 110?


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## Lain (Jun 24, 2015)

Yes, the "Logical Editor". It's a bit like scripting. There are several presets where you can see how they work. I believe there is already a preset to set the velocity to a certain value, just change the value.
There is also a way to set them to a random value between, for example, 70 and 110.

In the Midi Editor: Logical Presets -> Standard Set 1 -> Fixed Velocity


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## Fretless (Jun 24, 2015)

ikarus said:


> ok just to get it right: you take some (or all?) of the notes and put them slightly before/after the beat. right?



I do every single note. No drummer is 100% perfect to the beat. There is always deviation as I put in my notes. It can be next to perfect, but never 100% perfect.


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## fps (Dec 20, 2015)

ikarus said:


> ok just to get it right: you take some (or all?) of the notes and put them slightly before/after the beat. right?



I'd use the humanization option, it's good, saves you a lot of time. Doing them by hand, if you have infinite time, sure, but it's arduous.


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## GraemeH (Dec 21, 2015)

So do you guys freely drag them slightly after the beat the same as dragging them before the beat? I read being ahead of the beat was common and gave the music a faster paced feel.

Sure enough when I drum along on my MIDI keyboard and check in Cubase all my hits are ahead of the beat (just from my natural playing). Should I be avoiding that or using it for effect?


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## Laso (Dec 21, 2015)

How much should i drag the beat off the grid? A 16th note maybe?


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## Vres (Dec 22, 2015)

Laso said:


> How much should i drag the beat off the grid? A 16th note maybe?


No. More like 64th to 128th or something. But why would you drag the whole beat? Slightly scattered hits within a beat is better than displacing the whole beat. It's unconvenient for many reasons and might not give you desired results. I doubt that it's a common method.

I just disable snapping to grid when I have to displace e.g. tom hits in fills especially if there's kick drum hits playing simultaneously. I want to do it by hand, be in control of it and know what I'll get, instead of relying on the humanization option. The only dragging I do is just on the drum fills and a couple odd hits here and there.


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