# Kiesel Aries 8



## ferret (Jan 1, 2016)

A8 ARIES BEVEL-TOP BOLT NECK 8-STRING GUITAR | CarvinGuitars.com

Kiesel/Carvin finally has a bolt-on 8 string.

Mods: Feel free to merge... I just think this needs a thread separate from page 30 of the old Aries thread..


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## TechDeathWannabe (Jan 1, 2016)

*waits for multi*
It's coming.. Surely, this is an omen.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2016)

Wow, the RGD 8-string was finally released.


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## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2016)

Remember how I was complaining about the Aries model? Well, now I'm excited, haha. I'm a sucker for 8 strings. 

But year. I ain't buying squat until the multi drops.


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## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wow, the RGD 8-string was finally released.



So are you saying that just because it has pointing horns, a deep bevel, is a bolt on, has the Ibby headstock, is black, and has a rosewood FB, that is looks like an RGD? 

Lol, it is a little embarrassing that they picked the only options combination that Ibanez is famous/infamous for. Why not something unique? Kind of a weird decision, there.


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## exo (Jan 1, 2016)

So, uh.....this is the part where I ask you guys with more experience with high end stuff about the whol "Carvin custom vs Ibby Prestige" thing......I've thought I had settled on nabbing an 852 in a few more months, but it seems I've got a new entrant to the game to consider....


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## vick1000 (Jan 1, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> So are you saying that just because it has pointing horns, a deep bevel, is a bolt on, has the Ibby headstock, is black, and has a rosewood FB, that is looks like an RGD?
> 
> Lol, it is a little embarrassing that they picked the only options combination that Ibanez is famous/infamous for. Why not something unique? Kind of a weird decision, there.



At least they could have got the neck joint right, it looks more like a Dinky than an RG. I don't think it's worth the base price tag anyway.


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## lewis (Jan 1, 2016)

i was excited, until I followed the link and checked everything out.

27inch scale - shame

that neck heel -  

fretboard - Im really tired of light brown/dry looking rosewood.... ruins so many guitar aesthetics. Like Ebony or Maple makes this look 100000% better imo.

Really the only thing it has going for it is the body shape and the Hipshot. I think I will pass.

EDIT: For example.... this looks so much better


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## Mike (Jan 1, 2016)

I wouldn't mind seeing an inline headstock on this.


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## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2016)

Yeah, this falls squarely under the "too little, too late" category. Put an inline rev HS and a floyd? Then we're back in business. But if they wait for everyone else to do that, and then come in a couple of years from now, they'll again be too late. But I agree with you guys - a hard tail 27" 8 string is hardly worth $1000 base price these days. I tried spec'ing out a modestly interesting build, and got up into full custom territory, so I don't think I'm super into it with these specs. Hoping they release a floyd option or fan.

And yeah, what is up with the heel? The company that put neck thrus on the map decides to go the opposite direction when it comes to heels? At lease blend the neck heel into the body heel.


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## cip 123 (Jan 1, 2016)

lewis said:


>



I would just buy this for £300 and save about £1000, and gain a 28" neck, if thats what it looks like.

For a company like Carvin they can't make a better heel joint. 

I don't want to appear like a fanboy but ever since I saw the Aries I've just thought "Thats a schecter Deluxe." I mean hell this year Schecters have flame tops that don't cut off on the bevel.

I really think the Aries needs to be put back in to development to change some of the stuff thats just silly. If Schecter can do things on a £300 guitar that Carvin can't do on Customs, somethings definitely wrong. Also I'm aware it'll be veneers on Schecter but it's not exactly hard to do drop tops for a company like Carvin.


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## ferret (Jan 1, 2016)

lewis said:


> fretboard - Im really tired of light brown/dry looking rosewood.... ruins so many guitar aesthetics. Like Ebony or Maple makes this look 100000% better imo.
> 
> Really the only thing it has going for it is the body shape and the Hipshot. I think I will pass.



Minor note but this is Kiesel/Carvin, so, pick whatever fretboard and inlays you want, in any color you want. This is just the first sample one they've posted


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## Zhysick (Jan 1, 2016)

That's the worst pic they could have chosen: we all agree I see.

Also that diamond inlays reminds me of the very cheap BC Rich Assasin or however they were called... not the best guitars in the market.


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## exo (Jan 1, 2016)

Wow. I was not expecting the amount of negativity I see here. Thought Carvin's rep for quality and the whole "custom specs" thing might carry a little more weight.....


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## lewis (Jan 1, 2016)

cip 123 said:


> I would just buy this for £300 and save about £1000, and gain a 28" neck, if thats what it looks like.
> 
> For a company like Carvin they can't make a better heel joint.
> 
> ...



You know what, that Schecter is awesome and a better modding platform than an RG8 imo. I might grab one of these. Stain the fretboard black, locking tuners (if they dont have em stock), and Im sure that bridge is exactly the same one as the Agile cepheus bridges (or whatever) so i could grab one in black.

Totally stealth the hell out of it.


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## cip 123 (Jan 1, 2016)

lewis said:


> You know what, that Schecter is awesome and a better modding platform than an RG8 imo. I might grab one of these. Stain the fretboard black, locking tuners (if they dont have em stock), and Im sure that bridge is exactly the same one as the Agile cepheus bridges (or whatever) so i could grab one in black.
> 
> Totally stealth the hell out of it.



I've had one, awesome guitars mine had one the best setups I've ever had (and I've played quite a few guitars)

New pups, locking tuners, Hipshot if you want and its easily going to a guitar to keep. Thats why I can't ever see myself with an Aries, if I mod a schecter and end up with a guitar on par with a Carvin why bother getting one?

Again don't want to sound like a fanboy and I know you can get different woods and stuff with Carvin but the Aries seriously needs a rethink IMO.


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## lewis (Jan 1, 2016)

cip 123 said:


> I've had one, awesome guitars mine had one the best setups I've ever had (and I've played quite a few guitars)
> 
> New pups, locking tuners, Hipshot if you want and its easily going to a guitar to keep. Thats why I can't ever see myself with an Aries, if I mod a schecter and end up with a guitar on par with a Carvin why bother getting one?
> 
> Again don't want to sound like a fanboy and I know you can get different woods and stuff with Carvin but the Aries seriously needs a rethink IMO.



Ive never owned or played a Schecter so Im certainly no fan boy and even I see the upside to that approach so I get exactly what you mean.

I might have to try and find one in a shop somewhere and have a jam. Mind you most if not all guitar shops in the UK really have no idea how to setup 7 and 8 string guitars. Probably drop E with a 64 on bottom rendering it unplayable haha.


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## Mangle (Jan 2, 2016)

The builder hit me with a $1,700.00 price tag for a fairly basic model.... Mahogany, Mahog/Maple neck, Ebony fretboard, thinner carve. There was a charge for the headstock in there all of a sudden/new to me. That's without any kind of a fanned fret option. Looks like prices be going up a bit. I like this guitar and all but, you're looking at a pretty penny for a unique/stand alone build. Which, yeah.... is the case with all of the well-made, good-looking bad boys bleargh!


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## Alex Kenivel (Jan 2, 2016)

I'm actually not excited at all..


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 2, 2016)

There's some serious negativity towards Carvin/Kiesel going around, I've played several Aries models and it's no less playable than an Ibanez tilt joint hell or anything with else out there. Considering how nice these guitars are as well, I'd love for people to actually compare the RGD and Schecter and tell me they're on par 

People keep forgetting these are USA made guitars, and considering I've played a dozen of them from the modern Kiesel era alone. I think they're more than fairly priced considering they're on par IMO with EBMM's range of stuff. I'm probably going to pick up a Vader 8 in the future to give 8 strings a shot again.


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## cip 123 (Jan 2, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> There's some serious negativity towards Carvin/Kiesel going around, I've played several Aries models and it's no less playable than an Ibanez tilt joint hell or anything with else out there. Considering how nice these guitars are as well, I'd love for people to actually compare the RGD and Schecter and tell me they're on par
> 
> People keep forgetting these are USA made guitars, and considering I've played a dozen of them from the modern Kiesel era alone. I think they're more than fairly priced considering they're on par IMO with EBMM's range of stuff. I'm probably going to pick up a Vader 8 in the future to give 8 strings a shot again.



Wouldn't say anyones negative towards Carvin most folks know what level they are just this model, it has recieved a fair bit since it came out people just not gel'ing with it.

I know the Square joint will be playable, but when Jeff talks about Comfort and Ergonomics wanting to make sure guitars are balanced properly before putting them out for sale, he puts a Square joint on it? Like really? 

On an 8 I can see how it would put people off, it doesn't bother me too much I have big hands, but I would still rather have something else, plus the neck doesn't care in to the body it's got that flat spot at the end for the square joint I just don't like those.

I know they're USA made but they don't draw me in I really want a Carvin but i'm in the EU so shipping charge will be big. I was just pointing out the similarities in shape between the Schecter and Aries, Keisel seems to have copied (Maybe unintentionally) a few bits of the last year. Yes they're not Identical and no one can stop anyone from putting a bevel in a guitar.

I know the Carvin will trump the Schecter but when they look so similar and the Schecter has a carved heel I just found it amusing is all


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 2, 2016)

I mean in general, there's a lot of negativity towards Carvin/Kiesel and it's for really arbitrary reasons or pulling at straws IMO. I see what you mean on your points though, having played a few I didn't notice it when I was playing up top because it stays out of your way until you're at the 24th fret playing in that range.


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## Hollowway (Jan 2, 2016)

The hate toward Carvin you're seeing isn't about the guitars per se. I mean, we all have guitars we like and do not like. It's the over the top marketing. Like was said, don't say all other multiscales are uncomfortable and not ergonomic, and then out a 1980s square heel in it. You're just opening yourself up to being made fun of. I realize that this has nothing to do with this non-fanned model, but it's just an example of why people are getting tired of all the hyperbolic marketing.


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## cip 123 (Jan 2, 2016)

I haven't noticed any round here?

I'll take your word for it, I've played a lot of square joints and I just notice them more than All access ones, while I can reach the same spots it's usually more present.

But I doubt I'll ever get to try one since I've never even seen a Carvin in Scotland


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 2, 2016)

Who cares if it has a square heel if your hand never touches it? I've played plenty of guitars with square heels that never get touched because my pinky hits the inner bout of the lower horn before its an issue. I haven't played one yet, but its unsurprising to me that people would go on about it. I'll let you guys know if the square heel is in the way or not when my buddies 7 string comes is.

Also, 27" is more than enough for a low E, and likely beyond. (I currently play a 26.5 a whole step down.) Also, its a kiesel. If you think itd be better with ebony, order it with ebony.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 2, 2016)

^^^ Pretty much, and to be honest I'm part of the Wired Guitarist community and people keep talking about the over the top marketing and how they're pushed so hard over there. And I had to look up Jeff saying that his Multiscale was more comfortable than the others he's gotten his hands on. And I'm on the internet quite a bit since my work involves being connected and communicating with people over social media. Just unfollow the page if you don't like their marketing, it's easier than ever to fine tune how you see stuff online and it's not going to appeal to 100% of people.

And seriously, since when is 27" a bad thing on 8 strings?


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## Action (Jan 2, 2016)

27" is not a bad compromise to keep the high end bendy and not chime-y and still deliver playable F# on the bottom. I don't know what length people expect a non-fanned 8 to be these days.

But I can tell you, in great detail, why a few inches longer than 27 on the bass side is "ideal". I can also tell you in great detail why 25" is really nice to have on the treble side. You probably can too. Some of the above posters could write you a book about this, and are who I learned from.

We don't have to (and should not) have the scale length conversation here. Fact remains, some guys want their eights to be 28"+ on the bass side, and they'll chime in when a shorter-scale 8 comes out, and they're not incorrect, just expressing tonal/playing preference in the same was as "bleh floating trem" or "hate this neck shape". Some of us are even specifically after the shorter scale low string sound, just as some of us are decidedly not.

Re: the guitar, I don't have much to say except that's a mighty fine looking Ibanez.


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## sevenstringj (Jan 2, 2016)

My first guitar had a THICK, non-sloped square heel and it was never a problem wailing at the highest frets, which is pretty much all I did back then.   Meantime, the highest frets on my RG2228 are harder to hit despite the sexy contoured heel because the cutout isn't as deep as it could be. The cutout on this A8 looks about 1 fret deeper.  With the generous heel slope I'd wager it actually has better access to the highest frets than the RG2228.

If it's really that big an issue, the neck-thru DC800 is only $50 more (or just 20-35 more if you get the A8 with ebony). That's the only part that made me .



Hollowway said:


> The hate toward Carvin you're seeing isn't about the guitars per se. I mean, we all have guitars we like and do not like. It's the over the top marketing. Like was said, don't say all other multiscales are uncomfortable and not ergonomic, and then out a 1980s square heel in it. You're just opening yourself up to being made fun of. I realize that this has nothing to do with this non-fanned model, but it's just an example of why people are getting tired of all the hyperbolic marketing.


I have 0 idea what you're referring to by "over the top" or "hyperbolic" marketing. I don't subscribe to guitar magazines. I also have adblock on.  Post a pic? The description on their site seems pretty reasonable.


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## Hollowway (Jan 2, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> ^^^ Pretty much, and to be honest I'm part of the Wired Guitarist community and people keep talking about the over the top marketing and how they're pushed so hard over there. And I had to look up Jeff saying that his Multiscale was more comfortable than the others he's gotten his hands on. And I'm on the internet quite a bit since my work involves being connected and communicating with people over social media. Just unfollow the page if you don't like their marketing, it's easier than ever to fine tune how you see stuff online and it's not going to appeal to 100% of people.
> 
> And seriously, since when is 27" a bad thing on 8 strings?



You're not paying very much attention to the threads on here if you missed the part about Jeff talking about having played all the multiscales. I blew up pretty big, and on more than one thread. A number of luthiers on here were also pretty pissed about it, because they've been doing multis for years, and Jeff is acting like he's the first one to do it. 

Anyway, if you don't have a problem with their marketing, that's great. You're probably their target audience. I think it's a little odd that you have an issue with other people wanting a longer than 27" scale length for a guitar, an AANJ, etc. Not everyone HAS to like this. Not liking this model hardly qualifies as hate. I'm super excited about an 8 string multiscale from Carvin, but I don't like that heel, I don't like the bevel, and I would prefer an inline rev HS. So who knows if I'll buy one. And discussion guitars in detail is kind of what we do on here. I think it's weird when someone finds it odd that we're being picky about guitars. Of course we're going to talk for pages and pages about new guitars. 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by being a part of the WG community. I'm on there, too, and it's cool. Not sure that means I need to love everything Kiesel, though.


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## ferret (Jan 2, 2016)

sevenstringj said:


> I have 0 idea what you're referring to by "over the top" or "hyperbolic" marketing. I don't subscribe to guitar magazines. I also have adblock on.  Post a pic? The description on their site seems pretty reasonable.



Most of the hyper-marketing is via Facebook and Instagram. The site itself and their own forums are more or less still "business as usual"

But Facebook, and their videos, are hypes-ville. And I say that as a fan.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 3, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> You're not paying very much attention to the threads on here if you missed the part about Jeff talking about having played all the multiscales. I blew up pretty big, and on more than one thread. A number of luthiers on here were also pretty pissed about it, because they've been doing multis for years, and Jeff is acting like he's the first one to do it.
> 
> Anyway, if you don't have a problem with their marketing, that's great. You're probably their target audience. I think it's a little odd that you have an issue with other people wanting a longer than 27" scale length for a guitar, an AANJ, etc. Not everyone HAS to like this. Not liking this model hardly qualifies as hate. I'm super excited about an 8 string multiscale from Carvin, but I don't like that heel, I don't like the bevel, and I would prefer an inline rev HS. So who knows if I'll buy one. And discussion guitars in detail is kind of what we do on here. I think it's weird when someone finds it odd that we're being picky about guitars. Of course we're going to talk for pages and pages about new guitars.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what you mean by being a part of the WG community. I'm on there, too, and it's cool. Not sure that means I need to love everything Kiesel, though.



I must have missed it then, I come to this site every now and then in comparison to how much time I used to spend on it. I'm also not seeing the issue with the marketing? They just did a countdown of Jeff's builds and showcase their latest stuff. And Jeff makes these frequent videos updating people on sales/runs/and several other things. If you mean the hashtags on their instagram stuff, then that's kind of silly considering hashtags are how instagram links and categorizes photos 

I also never said I take issue with other people's desires  I'm retelling my own experiences and perhaps assuring people that as a person who's had the Aries in my own hands, I personally found it comfortable and non obtrusive. I'm not complaining about the discussion either, just the negativity recently in damn near whatever thread the brand pops up in. 

I also mentioned the WG page because that's what people have been talking about here lately. I personally don't notice anyone pushing their stuff on the main page anymore than anything else they post. I help around in the Music Discussion and the most I see is actual fans and owners promoting Kiesel themselves, what pretty much any happy owner of any guitar will do.

You're missing my point though, not liking the guitars is fine I have several things I would change and am not a fan of myself. Seems kind of backwards to take that from anything I'm saying at all. My main comments were that people were saying they're expensive yet they're not for what they are. You can go out and buy a Japanese RGD for 1700 brand new, or you can order an Aries which is pretty similar in design sans a few things and customize it to your own choices of wood/specs/etc, for less and maybe even just as much unless you want to bling it out completely. No one is denying anyone's desires  not like I have any way of doing that anyways.


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## Hollowway (Jan 3, 2016)

Yeah, I'd actually snap one of these up right now, despite there being things I don't like, except that I'm betting that there will be a fanned model around the corner. And that's what I REALLY want. Now the only question is whether I get a matte orange top, black limba body, zebra FB, and cream pups, or a hot pink, BEM FB, and white pups. Both would kick some serious ass. More ass with a rev inline HS, but I really don't see Jeff doing that. He's CLEARLY a fan of the 4+4 on 8 strings. Ah, well.


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## narad (Jan 3, 2016)

Action said:


> But I can tell you, in great detail, why a few inches longer than 27 on the bass side is "ideal". I can also tell you in great detail why 25" is really nice to have on the treble side. You probably can too. Some of the above posters could write you a book about this, and are who I learned from.



There is no objective ideal. I would not want to go any longer than 27.5 personally, and there's really not any book that could make my hands feel any differently about it.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 3, 2016)

I will say one thing. I love Carvin, and I think their products are top notch as is, but good god are their marketing videos painful to watch. There's a lot of great info in them, but its presented in such a cringeworthy way.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 3, 2016)

ferret said:


> Most of the hyper-marketing is via Facebook and Instagram. The site itself and their own forums are more or less still "business as usual"
> 
> But Facebook, and their videos, are hypes-ville. And I say that as a fan.



The over-the-top hashtagging is supercringe.

EDIT: For the record, I love Carvin, Kiesel, and whatever brand they go by. I wish I could own a Vader, I'm considering getting some Carvin bass and guitar cabs, and I'd kill for a Bolt idea I had...

But Jesus ....ing Christ, ever since the Kiesel thing and they got Engage on their marketing department, their social media has been over the top BAD.


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## ferret (Jan 3, 2016)

#buythis #guitar #becausenow #whynot #whywait #whylater #whoarewe #hype #hashhype #customshop #pride #notthatkindofpride #tone #yestone #everythingelsethishashtaglinkstoislikekitchensuppliesbutwhynot


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 3, 2016)

^The funny part is that you didn't use enough hashtags.


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## Ericjutsu (Jan 5, 2016)

exo said:


> So, uh.....this is the part where I ask you guys with more experience with high end stuff about the whol "Carvin custom vs Ibby Prestige" thing......I've thought I had settled on nabbing an 852 in a few more months, but it seems I've got a new entrant to the game to consider....



Im going to be selling my Ibanez RG852 LW FYI. It has Seymour Duncan Nazgul/Sentient pickups with a push/pull tone knob to split the coils as well. Also is set up properly with more appropriate string gauges instead of the 065 that it comes stock with for the low F.


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## scrub (Jan 5, 2016)

those inlays are atrocious.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 5, 2016)

Fact is, I really don't like it.

But all you guys whining about the square heel... Honestly, I think you're all overreacting. That heel looks crazy thin on that bottom left screw joint to start with, but also, it's not like it's the end of the world - Hell, maybe it was chosen for strength and tone, like on Paul Gilbert's recent Ibanez customs, where he asked for the tilt heel (And Ibanez's tilt heel is way thicker than this), because he liked the way it sounded?


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## Hollowway (Jan 5, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Fact is, I really don't like it.
> 
> But all you guys whining about the square heel... Honestly, I think you're all overreacting. That heel looks crazy thin on that bottom left screw joint to start with, but also, it's not like it's the end of the world - Hell, maybe it was chosen for strength and tone, like on Paul Gilbert's recent Ibanez customs, where he asked for the tilt heel (And Ibanez's tilt heel is way thicker than this), because he liked the way it sounded?



Yeah, I don't care why they did it, I just don't like that heel. I mean, if it's for "tone" then I like it even less, cuz I don't believe rounding that out would cause any tonal difference whatsoever. I mean, I'm not saying the heel IS bad. I'm just saying I don't like the design choice. Oddly enough to, I DO like most of the other features! But - still holding out for the multi!


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 5, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't care why they did it, I just don't like that heel. I mean, if it's for "tone" then I like it even less, cuz I don't believe rounding that out would cause any tonal difference whatsoever. I mean, I'm not saying the heel IS bad. I'm just saying I don't like the design choice. Oddly enough to, I DO like most of the other features! But - still holding out for the multi!



If you don't want one that's fine, I don't want one either because of the scale length - But people are acting like the sky fell because one bolt on heel that looks like it gives perfectly good access was used instead of another heel that gives perfectly good access.

It won't feel like an AANJ, but I'd be willing to bet that most people wouldn't notice and even fewer would care if you handed them to them blindfolded, one AANJ and one with that joint. And if they did care? Congratulations, they've proven themselves to be really picky about that one aspect of guitar construction, and that may or may not be a good or a bad thing in this instance.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 5, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> So are you saying that just because it has pointing horns, a deep bevel, is a bolt on, has the Ibby headstock, is black, and has a rosewood FB, that is looks like an RGD?
> 
> Lol, it is a little embarrassing that they picked the only options combination that Ibanez is famous/infamous for. Why not something unique? Kind of a weird decision, there.



They just saw everyone begging for the RGD 8 and said did it I think. Seems smart and a little lame at the same time. However, that thing does look rather sexy. I didn't really like he Aries, but somehow when you make it a little wider to accommodate the extra stringage I somehow find the overall shape a bit more attractive.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 5, 2016)

+1 27" easily hits E1. Hell I do it on 26.5"...


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## Hollowway (Jan 5, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> If you don't want one that's fine, I don't want one either because of the scale length - But people are acting like the sky fell because one bolt on heel that looks like it gives perfectly good access was used instead of another heel that gives perfectly good access.
> 
> It won't feel like an AANJ, but I'd be willing to bet that most people wouldn't notice and even fewer would care if you handed them to them blindfolded, one AANJ and one with that joint. And if they did care? Congratulations, they've proven themselves to be really picky about that one aspect of guitar construction, and that may or may not be a good or a bad thing in this instance.



Yeah. You seem really focused on people caring about the heel, yet you're concerned about the scale length. I think some people are just going to be more OCD about one aspect over another. I'm personally cool with 27" or 28".


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 5, 2016)

EDIT: *wrong guy*


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## Señor Voorhees (Jan 5, 2016)

Square joints are perfectly fine.

Case in point, this is my thumb with my pinky within the 24th fret on both the high e and low e string. Mind you, my hand was a little cramped since I had to rotate it to get a picture, but my thumb is exactly where it is when I play in the 24th fret.











An aanj, beveled, rounded, whatever carve would have done nothing to make the upper fret access better because my thumb just doesn't go up there.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 5, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah. You seem really focused on people caring about the heel, yet you're concerned about the scale length. I think some people are just going to be more OCD about one aspect over another. I'm personally cool with 27" or 28".



I'm concerned about the scale lengths because I think they compromise the basic function of the instrument if it's wrong. I like to be in tune and I don't want to have to play with a feather touch on my picking hand to achieve that.

I'd say the same about a heel that was the size of a traditional strat heel on a shredder guitar too, it would be fundamentally problematic.

But this heel? I think people are just crying as if it's an inch an a half thick strat heel because it's not rounded, and not taking into account how much thinner it is than that.

I mean, this is a strat heel: http://www.elderly.com/media/catalo...d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/s/fssl11-blk-m_heel.jpg

This is an ibby tilt heel - http://www.elderly.com/media/catalo...d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/s/fssl11-blk-m_heel.jpg

And this is the heel on that Kiesel - http://www.carvinguitars.com/images/a8/a8-closeup-large-4.jpg

Lets be honest, compared to most people's idea of a nightmare square heel, that's tiny. Mountains out of molehills and whatnot.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 5, 2016)

Tell that to Tosin, Javier Reyes, After the Burial... And I don't know how many times I have to say it, but I've hit E1 @ 26.5". So have others here. And I think Explorer does it at standard Fender scale.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 5, 2016)

Sure you can hit those notes, but I prefer the sound of a tighter, lower-gauge string. I played a TAM100 and RG8 and it could hold the drop E, but I didn't really like the tone of it.


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## Hollowway (Jan 5, 2016)

Yeah, I get that a lot of you guys don't mind the square heel. I used to be fine with them, but the first time I got a neck thru I couldn't believe the difference. Maybe it's just the way I hold my hand when I play, but a heel can definitely get in the way for me. Although, in this particular case it's not so much about access (since I haven't played it to know), but more about the choice to make a square one. I just don't like that design choice. I understand that my opinion pisses a lot of people off though!


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 5, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sure you can hit those notes, but I prefer the sound of a tighter, lower-gauge string. I played a TAM100 and RG8 and it could hold the drop E, but I didn't really like the tone of it.



I can dig that. I was saying that more in response to the notion that you've "compromised the instrument's basic function" which is very much untrue. Tone is something I can't decide for anyone else.


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## Hollowway (Jan 5, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> I didn't really like he Aries, but somehow when you make it a little wider to accommodate the extra stringage I somehow find the overall shape a bit more attractive.



Yep, I think the same thing. Some shapes are ruined when you widen the neck (like LPs look weird to me with 8 strings). But this one actually looks BETTER to my eyes as an 8 string.


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## Señor Voorhees (Jan 6, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I get that a lot of you guys don't mind the square heel. I used to be fine with them, but the first time I got a neck thru I couldn't believe the difference. Maybe it's just the way I hold my hand when I play, but a heel can definitely get in the way for me. Although, in this particular case it's not so much about access (since I haven't played it to know), but more about the choice to make a square one. I just don't like that design choice. I understand that my opinion pisses a lot of people off though!



I think it varies. I've played some dreadful square heels before. Schecter's original Omen 8, which we have one here at the house, has an embarrassing heel. Which is a damn shame, since I love the way it plays otherwise. I've also played some truly aweful set and through necks. The IC507 (I think?) Has a nicely shaped heel that the thumb has no issue going around. The problem is that the cutout is too shallow and it starts too early where your thumb is required to go up the sculpt to hit the upper frets. With that guitar in particular, you still can't hit the highest frets easily even with your hand jammed up in the bout.

I understand and respect that its not everyone's cup of tea. Different folks like different things and there's nothing wrong with that. The decision to make a square heel isn't an oversight though, and there's no real reason to question it. Its just how it is, and like all guitars you'll either like it or dislike it. I am curious how it plays though, since I do have a seven on order. I'll be sure to share my thoughts once I get mine in since it really could go one way or the other.


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## jephjacques (Jan 6, 2016)

Square heels have never really bothered me, and I think the BEVEL looks nice on guitars without figured tops. I was considering ordering a DC800 but a barebones Aries 8 is pretty tempting, especially if they do come out with a FF version.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 6, 2016)

Señor Voorhees;4505397 said:


> I think it varies. I've played some dreadful square heels before. Schecter's original Omen 8, which we have one here at the house, has an embarrassing heel. Which is a damn shame, since I love the way it plays otherwise. I've also played some truly aweful set and through necks. The IC507 (I think?) Has a nicely shaped heel that the thumb has no issue going around. The problem is that the cutout is too shallow and it starts too early where your thumb is required to go up the sculpt to hit the upper frets. With that guitar in particular, you still can't hit the highest frets easily even with your hand jammed up in the bout.
> 
> I understand and respect that its not everyone's cup of tea. Different folks like different things and there's nothing wrong with that. The decision to make a square heel isn't an oversight though, and there's no real reason to question it. Its just how it is, and like all guitars you'll either like it or dislike it. I am curious how it plays though, since I do have a seven on order. I'll be sure to share my thoughts once I get mine in since it really could go one way or the other.



Thanks for that. I was GASin' for an IC507. 

GAS relieved.


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## Alex Kenivel (Jan 9, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> GAS relieved.


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## ferret (Jan 12, 2016)

Well, let's get this rolling.

Jeff just dropped this:






He's also working on what appears to be a one-off double neck Aries with fan fret 7 alongside a straight 6.










That upper horn looks a little less "Aries" and a bit more "CT" to me though.

I've also heard that X-Mann was able to get opt-50 offset dots on a non-fanned fret build, so I'm hoping NAMM will reveal that offset will come to all models.


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## ferret (Jan 12, 2016)

AM8 reveal at NAMM. That was quick.

$1349 according to instagram.


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## Dominoes282 (Jan 12, 2016)

Jeff Kiesel posted this to his facebook saying "crooked frets".

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialJe...41829.428543110600861/793804337408068/?type=3

All I can say is, my body is ready


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## ThePIGI King (Jan 12, 2016)

*paging Holloway*

He was right...O Great Holloway, Thou art wonderful in foreseeing this news. What do we do next, ERG-King Holloway?

EDIT: Also, offset dots on the treb side?? Too bad I have that thing called college to pay for...


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## ferret (Jan 12, 2016)

ThePIGI King said:


> EDIT: Also, offset dots on the treb side?? Too bad I have that thing called college to pay for...



Bass side till 12th fret, then switched to treb.


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## oremus91 (Jan 12, 2016)

OH BOY HERE WE GO!

Edit: Love the simplicity of the MOP dots.. why isn't that offered as a normal option on vaders?


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## Hollowway (Jan 12, 2016)

Dang, if buy that right now! Except it's probably a million dollars. But I will definitely be getting one! My poor, poor DC800 is now about to be horribly ignored!


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## cardinal (Jan 12, 2016)

Wow if you guys think that's a square heel please never pick up a Fender or Les Paul. Your head would explode. Could be cool with a multiscale option.


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## exo (Jan 12, 2016)

The more I see the Aries as an 8, the more seriously I consider a Carvin/Keisel.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 13, 2016)

Nice!!! My guess is its 25.5 - 27.25.


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## ikarus (Jan 13, 2016)

the only thing that stops me from ordering is that pickup/bridge angle misalignment. ;(


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## jwade (Jan 13, 2016)

Didn't someone confirm it as being 27.5-25.5? I thought one of the endorsers posted about it a couple days ago.


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## lewis (Jan 13, 2016)

ive been Gasing for A Vader for ages. Anyone know if multiscale is going to become an option for those because I dont think it is currently is it?.

Either way, whilst I dont like the look of the standard ARies 8 we saw in the start of this thread, the multiscale tease pictures interest me greatly. But I really do not like square heels at all.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 13, 2016)

Vaders aren't immediately planned for fanned. Jeff seemed adament about telling people it's a no go for the immediate future. Still, he's been known to say "no" one week and "introducing" the next. I think he said he'd like to and was using the aeries to test the waters on how in demand the feature is. 

Worth saying is that I'm dense. I saw the "crooked frets" post on Facebook and immediately thought "so what? You've been posting constantly about it." Completely glazed over the fact that it's an 8. It was innevitable, but cool none the less. Also seems like buckeye burl is the new bevel for him. He's slapping it on everything. Keeps talking about limited stock and then slaps it on weird niche builds. lol


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 13, 2016)

jwade said:


> Didn't someone confirm it as being 27.5-25.5? I thought one of the endorsers posted about it a couple days ago.



Maybe, I'm just guessing since the pickup angle looked the same as on the 7 but so does the 6 so I could be wrong. 

If its 27.5 then I could see myself getting my first 8 string.


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## Spicypickles (Jan 13, 2016)

That guitar in particular looks absolutely sick. I've never played a carvin, but damn!


Like someone posted before though, I'll bet its upwards of $3500.


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## mphsc (Jan 13, 2016)

for some reason all these new models are making me like the smaller builders more & more.


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## SDMFVan (Jan 13, 2016)

ferret said:


>



That looks fun to tune.


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## schwiz (Jan 14, 2016)

I want the SCB7 in a 27" multi. THAT would be amazing.


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## Wildebeest (Jan 14, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> There's some serious negativity towards Carvin/Kiesel going around, I've played several Aries models and it's no less playable than an Ibanez tilt joint hell or anything with else out there. Considering how nice these guitars are as well, I'd love for people to actually compare the RGD and Schecter and tell me they're on par



I see more people complaining about the design and lack of 28" scale, and frankly I don't blame them. I tune a whole step down, with a dropped low D on top of that, anything less than 28" is immediately written off for me. 

That said, I'm always happy to see more 8 strings.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 18, 2016)

AM8 ARIES MULTISCALE FANNED-FRET BEVEL-TOP BOLT NECK 8-STRING GUITAR | CarvinGuitars.com

26" - 27.5"


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## narad (Jan 18, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> AM8 ARIES MULTISCALE FANNED-FRET BEVEL-TOP BOLT NECK 8-STRING GUITAR | CarvinGuitars.com
> 
> 26" - 27.5"



Bevel doesn't seem as bad to me vs. the AM6/7, but we're back to the bulky, pointy headstock?


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## Nlelith (Jan 18, 2016)

26"-27.5" isn't what I hoped for... but it's certainly not bad!


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 19, 2016)

narad said:


> Bevel doesn't seem as bad to me vs. the AM6/7, but we're back to the bulky, pointy headstock?



Super long inline headstocks give a lot of potential flex behind the nut, and also fit in fewer available cases. It's both a functional and practical upgrade to have a shorter, stronger, more compatible headstock.

And it's really not that bulky, whut.


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## Alex Kenivel (Jan 19, 2016)

Getting there Jeff, but not quite..


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## VigilSerus (Jan 19, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Super long inline headstocks give a lot of potential flex behind the nut, and also fit in fewer available cases. It's both a functional and practical upgrade to have a shorter, stronger, more compatible headstock.
> 
> And it's really not that bulky, whut.




Yeah the 4x4 Carvin headstock is actually smaller than most headstocks (i.e. Schecter), but I think there is a visual dissonance between the regular headstock and this one. I think that, because of the multiscale, the treble side of it was pulled down more, so the top cut of the headstock now looks longer and makes the whole thing look more square.


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## narad (Jan 19, 2016)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Super long inline headstocks give a lot of potential flex behind the nut, and also fit in fewer available cases. It's both a functional and practical upgrade to have a shorter, stronger, more compatible headstock.
> 
> And it's really not that bulky, whut.



Having seen the Misha 8 I no longer want to complain so much about this! Yes, there's obviously some practical and theoretical benefits to avoiding a big inline headstock, but this just doesn't seem to fit the body nearly as well as the 7 with the inline.


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