# Bass first or guitar then bass, how did you start?



## Bo Millward (Jun 25, 2009)

Just out of interest did you start playing guitar then move to bass, or just go straight to bass? And what do you think the advantages / disadvantages are to each path?

I went straight for bass, an personally I feel that most players who follow this path (obviously this doesn't apply to 100% of players), have a better feel and understanding of the role of the bass in the music they play. (Check out the controversial statement, haha )

What do you think?


----------



## phaeded0ut (Jun 25, 2009)

LOL! It all depends. I started out on lute to guitar to electric guitar to synthesizer guitar and MIDI guitar to electric bass guitar to oud and finally to upright bass (my bowing still sucks). As with all things, what's the application? Noise music, rock'n'roll, western popular classical music, orchestral, Persian classical, Arabic classical, Indian classical, Fusion of all of the above, etc, .... You'll have some very different "opinions" as to what the function of the electric bass guitar is supposed to have within any of these types of music. Also, it matters upon the player, too. Do you like the spot-light, are you there to lay down a groove, or is it a matter of being more consistent than your percussionist? Granted, there are quite a number of other qualifiers in there, too.

Even within one specific genre of metal, the roles can be mixed, depending upon the other folks in that particular band. (Was gonna make a joke about Jethro Tull at this point.) 

Starts dodging the in-coming after making this post.


----------



## Ruins (Jun 25, 2009)

i started on clasic guitar actually and then switched to bass because some guys in school wanted to start an band and needed a bassist. with time bass became my main instrument especially after seeing john myung and billy sheehan do their thing i fell in love with it completely . 
my approach to bass though is not necessarily the traditional one i like many things and i try to mix that in my playing for example shredding, soloing, percussive sounds and yet i consider my self more of a bassist then a guitar player.
i think this way sure it did helped me better to understand what bass is and how to approach it and in the same time i discovered the hell with traditional things and norms do what your ear dictates you to.


----------



## synrgy (Jun 25, 2009)

Bo Millward said:


> Just out of interest did you start playing guitar then move to bass, or just go straight to bass? And what do you think the advantages / disadvantages are to each path?
> 
> I when straight for bass, an personally I feel that most players who follow this path (obviously this doesn't apply to 100% of players), have a better feel and understanding of the role of the bass in the music they play. (Check out the controversial statement, haha )
> 
> What do you think?



I certainly agree that when most guitar players pick up a bass it sounds exactly that: like they're trying to play guitar on a bass, except using single notes instead of chords. 

There are really only a tiny hand-full of people on the entire planet who can make a bass guitar REALLY WORK as a lead instrument. It has nothing to do with the presence or lack of technique a player has, and for the most part people don't seem to get that. It has to do with what a tiny portion of the audio spectrum (that the average human ear can detect) bass actually takes up in comparison to mids and highs. That's WHY there's a 'fundamental way' to play bass in a band, which is basically to lock down the rhythm section with the drummer. It's not because people refuse to 'think outside of the box' -- it's because in this particular case, the box actually makes the most sense musically/tonally. Guys like Claypool and Wooten are the exception -- not the rule. Plus, those guys work with musicians who are willing/able to give them the room they need to let their bass talk like they do, and the vast majority of players who aren't already busy working professionally just don't 'get it' well enough to do that.

Anyway, sorry for the mini-rant. 

I played guitar first, but I don't consider myself a bass player so much as a dude who likes to fuck with a bass on occasion to change the pace. Between the string size/spacing difference, the tonal difference, and the scale difference, it's just a completely different instrument altogether.


----------



## Bo Millward (Jun 25, 2009)

Totally agree man, with players like Claypool an Wooten there's still that fundamental tight pocket/groove. They've got substance to their playing, not just icing with on cake if you know what I mean. 
Oh an phaeded0ut nice one for the good perspective. I mean at the end of the day I think anyone who can justify their playing and approach to bass playing to his/her self has justified it to me, my initial post was purposely one sided to kick start the responses.


----------



## troyguitar (Jun 25, 2009)

I am a guitar player who occasionally tries to play bass... I have no idea how to make the damn thing sound good in a song.


----------



## Thin_Ice_77 (Jun 25, 2009)

I play guitar and noodle on bass. I only really have one for the sake of it.


----------



## Origins (Jun 26, 2009)

I started by playing the bass along with classical guitar.
I had a really good bass teacher, and I quickly immersed myself in all kinds of bass techniques (slap, tapping, pull off, harmonics, etc..) which brought me a lot rhythmically speaking. I´ve also never used a pick, so my fingers got a lot of strenght from that. 
When I started the electric guitar, it was really weird for me, ´cause the neck felt so small and easy to play on.
I would definitely advise anyone to start with the bass. It requires much more strength from arms, wristes and fingers and makes the guitar easier to play. You can even use bass techniques on the guitar then, which is quite cool


----------



## Harry (Jun 26, 2009)

Guitar first for me.
I've been fortunate enough to have been in band situations where I was the bass player and that really opens up your mind to play a bass like a bass instead of a guitarist trying to play bass.


----------



## phaeded0ut (Jun 26, 2009)

No Charles Mingus, Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller, Jaco Pastorius, Trey Gunn, Tony Levin, Bootsey Collins or Jack Bruce? ... I'm hurt guys! (Feigns the pain in only a day-time TV star way.) LOL! Steve Bailey, Mark Eagan and Michael Manring shouldn't be forgotten either. There's quite a few bassists out there who have really stepped up as the front men (and I know that I've forgotten quite a number of them out there and do apologize). Though I do agree, they are more of the exception rather than the norm for bass players.

One thing we also forgot to bring up with this topic is if you're doing the solo act thing (you're the only person in the band)? Do you lay down a looped drum track, or drone note followed by bass or melody and then mix things up (or in a different order)? This may or may not make a difference as to how you treat the instrument, too.

Harry's on the money with his comment about a guitar player trying to be a bass player (I was VERY guilty of that for a very long period of time). On this note, it is hard in many instances to not be guilty of this or its reverse when playing a guitar or other instrument. Tried approaching the qin (look for "guqin" if you're interested) as a fretless, table-top bass at first, and it is more similiar to a baritone fretless table-top guitar in all honesty (much more of a focus on harmonics).

Main thing (for me) is to have fun with your tools rather than become overly introspective about them.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jun 26, 2009)

guitar first


----------



## Brendan G (Jun 26, 2009)

I played bass for about four years before I started playing guitar seriously.


----------



## Bo Millward (Jun 26, 2009)

phaeded0ut said:


> One thing we also forgot to bring up with this topic is if you're doing the solo act thing (you're the only person in the band)? Do you lay down a looped drum track, or drone note followed by bass or melody and then mix things up (or in a different order)? This may or may not make a difference as to how you treat the instrument, too.


 
Good call man, personally I'd incorporate a percussive element to the piece and split the main melody and bass line into right hand and left hand led parts. Providing the piece with a full backing. 
I'm not too in to loops, I think you can express a lot more playing every element simultaneously. As opposed to depending on a pedal for playback, with fixed loop. I just fined there's a lot less room from an improvisation point of view. 

Whats your approach?


----------



## phaeded0ut (Jun 26, 2009)

LOL! You're gonna laugh, I've a "supposedly" digital tabla that I've used for a few gigs that actually slides the rhythm around. A friend from Looper's Delight and I had our two beasties going at the same time and well, ... mine had a tendency to play slow, and speed up. Almost reminds me of someone breathing heavily, inhale and slow down, exhale and speed up. MIDI Connection reboots mine when it is sent information. LOL! His tended to speed up, stabilize, and speed up again, but it wasn't as noticable as mine. Think that they need some SMPTE.  LOL! 

Typically, my application isn't too far off from what I described in the earlier approach:
1. Start with a drone note, a groove, melody or a tangent (should never be influenced by Leo Kottke  ).
2. Maybe add a drum track, sound effects (I'm still getting to know my two Kaos Pads) or other drones. (If I added a drone, I save it to a different memory location in order to accomidate chord changes when playing duduk music.)
3. Add some flavour, maybe some "sound effects," some chord changes or a counter rhythm.
4. Add a (first or second) melody or another drone note to give some "boundaries."
5. Re-add/re-enforce a melody if it wasn't added beforehand, do some other fiddling.
6. Repeat a few steps here and there or omit them altogether or do them in reverse order. 
7. Make sure to remember how to get to an end loop from the drum machines or try to use a foot pedal (Ernie Ball Passive Volume Pedal) to end things. Nothing more embarrassing than something making the odd chirp or continue playing and you're not able to stop it without going to the volume pedal or off switch.

In it's simplest, the above is one way of doing things, and I improv all over the place. Walking a bass line is also a great start, too. (Ok, I'm guilty of a more jaunty, skipping bassline, but you get the point.) 

Last gig (world fusion/trance) I played, sadly no bass, was with a Tom Yocky 6-string Lap Dulcimer ("With Wings" if you're interested), L.R. Baggs Para DI, a modified Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro, Heet Sound E-Bow, an (I think it is a Carvin) A-B switch, a Boss ME-50, Boss RC-20XL, two Ernie Ball Passive Volume Pedals, a Peterson Tuner, a $10.00 (USA) electric fan, power conditioner, and a Mesa Boogie Lonestar. One warning in using a Lonestar, they are very loud and project insanely well. Almost got shutdown because the restaurant across the street could hear me without any difficulty. The least amount of equipment, the better. Took two trips to the car. Ick, but liveable.

With a bass, it was: Carvin XB76ap 6-string bass, home-made Funk Fingers, 3 Ernie Ball Passive Volume Pedals, modified Epiphone LP Goth 7-string with Q-Tuners, Heet Sound E-Bow, Carvin A-B Switch, Boss ME-50, Boss RC-50, some Alesis drum machine (pre-programmed by the owner for me), Yamaha UD-Stomp, Peterson Tuner, power conditioner, SWR Californa Blonde. (More Jazz Fusion, much more psychedelia, a little less world music with this one.) Took three trips to the car!

Ohhhh, you'd be amazed what you can do to a loop with a Echoplex (I didn't like them because they were too flaky on the road and even in the home). Boomerangs were another option, though they're a bit noisy for my taste and the reverse sound isn't as decent as the Boss or Line6 equipment (the DL4 is awesome for the very short amount of time it works, but they are horrid with basses or were when I was trying to use them). The RC-20XL and the RC-50 allow for quite a bit of tweaking and fiddling, these also can handle a low B on my bass. This is also quite true of the Kaos Pads (they can handle quite a bit and do much more, but you have to do a bit more delving with them), though I'd highly recommend purchasing some form of keyboard stand and creating tables or crash cart to use with these Korg products.
I abuse the heck of loopers, generally in lots of different ways. One way is to "fake" other instruments, such as a pair of duduk's, uillean/bag pipes (the sound isn't a match, but the effect is definitely there) and sitar/veena (this takes another digital delay and a pitch shifter). It's almost to the point where it easier to take them (the loopers) off of the ground and put them on a table or other raised surface (don't think people want to see me constantly bent over).

On the idea of using a dinky drum machine/synthesizer in conjunction to the solo act stuff, let me recommend taking a peak at the Korg DS for the Nintendo DSi in conjunction with the Korg Kaos Pad Mini (or two) and some other form of looper in order to keep from breaking your back when moving to and from a gig. Something having all your backup instruments in a pair of pockets is VERY appealing, their wall warts weigh more than the individual Kaos Pads.

Sadly, I'll end up going back to being a guitarist, who happens to play bass lines, once I get my Roter 8-string, more than likely. The Stick and Box guitar had a bit too much of a learning curve for my taste and since getting a 6-string bass with 7-string guitar as a doubleneck would be a serious back breaker... Hence the reason I'm very interested in the 8-string guitars.


----------



## All_¥our_Bass (Jun 29, 2009)

Bass first, I found I could actually play a bass, the string spacing made starting with guitar unlikely. I will admit to using bass like a low tuned guitar (even with chords!!) but that's my whole "FUCK TRADITION!! FUCK NORMS!!" line of thought.

One of my old buds I used to play with got frustrated with me cause he wanted more of a "traditional 70's" style, whilst I wanted a "What the fuck!?" prog style.

Also, my bass tone is really good at making heads turn, It's really punchy and clanky, with plenty of zing, but NO BOTTOM. It's basically all mids, with just enough treble to get a bright sound but not be piercing. I also use a pick which makes the sound on the brighter side anyway.
I use 95,75,60,40 stainless steel roundwound set tuned to D standard.

Distortion and/or other weird effects are commonplace, I almost never use a plain clean sound.


----------



## Methilde (Jul 5, 2009)

Initially, I started with bass because my dad bought one and I couldn't help but try to play. Then all laid still for a while until I bought my own guitar. Now I do both


----------



## ghoti (Jul 10, 2009)

Bass. I'm still a lot better with bass than with guitar.

I studied bass before I decided to focus on voice. I always wanted to play guitar too, and just a few years ago started to learn it...it's easier to plunk down chords to sing with than running-note passages (how guys like Geddy and Jack Bruce and Sir Paul can do such things so well is pretty incredible).


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jul 11, 2009)

I played guitar for 5 years before starting to take bass seriously this may. I find that since I already have a good understanding of most theory, bass playing came naturally. The only thing that took months of work, is fingerplucking, but with a pick I can play just as good as I play guitar.

Working on walking right now, and its coming pretty good after just 1-2 months, can make my way thru most medium speed standards, its just the right hand holding me back


----------



## BigMikeBass (Jul 11, 2009)

I agree that the main focus should be having fun with it... now allow me to be overly introspective for a minute...

I started on piano/organ when I was 3 or 4, moved to electric guitar at 14 thinking it would get me laid (to debatable degrees of success). I still play guitar, but I fell in love with the deep powerful tone of the bass at around 17 when teaching my best friend who wanted to start a band with me... went back and forth a bit after that but it's been my main thing now for around 15 years. 

I dabble with drums a bit now too... for me, whatever the instrument, rhythm is where it's at. Want to be a good bassist? IMO, learn about rhythm, glue the drum kit to the rest of the band and keep those anxious mofo's from getting on top all the time.

I think it's important to play as many instruments as you can, even if you never master them. I find during periods where I only play bass, I start to lose the perspective of the other players in my band and tend to drift too far from my role as support, as that glue. 

For me, being a guitar player first has done 2 main things... It's helped to give me chops and the ability to solo and jump out in front and take center-stage... that's fun, but disasterous if you forget what instrument you're playing. The best thing though is that it's also allowed me to better appreciate the perspective of the guitarist (and others) and better understand what they need from the bass... that's a good thing.

Strangely, I don't have a lot of influences... There are a lot of amazing players in history I have a ton of respect for, but I've always just viewed bass as a potion of the greater whole of music and haven't really tried to cop anybody's style or anything with it. There's no right or wrong, respect to those who follow in the footsteps of giants, it's a good thing, but just not the road I went down.

I'm not a huge fan of the 'bass solo'... I am a huge fan of solo bass! I like players like Wooten and Charlie Hunter (yes, he's a bass player too) who view it as a stringed instrument and do amazing things with the tone... although I love Van Halen (I know I know but I grew up on it and still think there's greatness there), and I think Michael Anthony's 8th note backbone runs are really f*kn cool, I'm not a big fan of someone coming out on stage alone, downing half a bottle of Jack and beating the bass around through a flanger (no disrespect). OK, well maybe I am a fan of that in some ways, but I don't like that as a bass solo. Ever notice that bass solos in rock generally rely on other things than music to sell them... blood, fire, booze, playing it with your d*ck or beating your face with it (the bass)... why do you think that is?


----------



## Angrychair (Jul 14, 2009)

i voted guitar first but my first intrument was alto saxaphone since age 11, then guitar at 14. i just recently started playing bass after a hiatus from music since 2003`


----------



## Mwoit (Jul 16, 2009)

Guitar first, then got roped into playing bass for my mates band. 

And it rocks! Although I am quite notey for a bassist (my friends say "Man, you just play your own thing!" but in a nice way), I try to balance between locking down with the drums and doing different stuff.


----------



## Varcolac (Jul 31, 2009)

Violin first? Then piano. Then guitar. Then bass. Then fretless bass. Then fretless five-string bass. Then double bass. Then seven-string guitar. Now, everything. Jack of all trades, master of bugger all (though I do play a mean double bass. Mingus!).


----------



## Shurka Durka (Aug 2, 2009)

Guitar first. Then I wanted to be in a band so I bought a bass. Played bass in a band(s) for like 7 years. Now I hardly play bass except to record. I'm just more of a guitar player I guess.


----------



## Cuda (Sep 11, 2009)

I started off on Bass around 17, everyone I knew was playing guitar, so I wanted to do something slightly different, and felt I had a better chance of finding a band. That and the spacing on a guitar was just too cramped.

I basically played crappy and fast. But that was what they wanted. I quit around 2002 when I went to the Army.

Around 2006 I had been out for a bit, was bored and wanted to pick it up again. I started studying stuff like Bach and Video Game music.Odd combo but yeah. I've always played guitars at people's places, but just as if it were a bass.Could never get use to the spacing.

This last Christmas, I was out of town and couldn't bring my gear. I ended up playing my uncle's strat the whole time, and found I was actually able to adapt to the smaller strings and cramped spacing, and could play a power chord. Since march I've moved on and played guitar mainly, except for playing bass for band practices and shows.

I got a 7 in may and haven't really desired anything else. I was scared to make the switch at first, but I've gotten better than a few people that I know who have played since high school


----------



## auxioluck (Sep 11, 2009)

Started on bass first. I think it really helped me dive my ear right into rhythm playing. It molded over into my guitar playing, and to this day, has still helped my playing stay rhythm-based.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Sep 13, 2009)

Guitar first, then bass a few years later. I don't really practice the bass regularly anymore, but I do enjoy breaking them out occasionally.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Sep 21, 2009)

I started playing bass about 2 years after starting guitar. 

And it was by accident too. Because there were too many guitarists in school, not many of us could or even wanted to play bass. So I started playing bass. 

But it was worth it because not only I learned the importance of the instrument in the overall spectrum, granted that it helped that I played Organ may years prior, but I can now play the bass without worrying about the "guitarist playing bass" stigma. 

That and I loved the fact that the bands where I play bass no longer wanted a keyboard/2nd guitar because of my playing style. That and I can do the Geddy Lee bass/keys multi-tasking too.


----------



## Joelan (Sep 24, 2009)

I think I played guitar for 2 years before picking up a bass, when my school put me down for it in our class music ensemble, assuming as a guitarist I would be able to play it haha.

I finally got my own bass 3 years ago (after 4 years of playing the schools bass in various groups) and have been slapping and popping ever since


----------

