# Why do black metal fans hate Watain?



## BulletBelt (Jan 9, 2014)

I used to listen to almost nothing but black metal, I've been drifting away from it for a while and the only black metal band I listen to now is Watain. I never understood the main reason why they're hated though.


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## død (Jan 9, 2014)

Because some black metal fans hate everything except for the trvest, most vnfamiliar black metal there is.


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## DLG (Jan 9, 2014)

from what I understand, most consider the earlier albums to be great and don't find the crossover attempts of the new album to be compelling. 

kind of like dimmu borgir.


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## Loomer (Jan 9, 2014)

The main critique I hear leveled at them seems to be that they sound like In Flames now, and this is from people who were fans of their old stuff.


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## OmegaSlayer (Jan 9, 2014)

Because hate is the highest form of Trve Black Metal 
(Love Watain, old and contemporary)


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## Dyingsea (Jan 9, 2014)

After Sworn to the Dark they kind of fell off the sound that made them great. I've always been a fan of their earlier works and never noticed any great dislike towards them.


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## mgh (Jan 9, 2014)

never got the hype myself - not as good as Dawn, Sacramentum or Dissection, average melodic Swedish BM. but they have good PR!


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## Necris (Jan 9, 2014)

Because their music is awful and they seem to desire nothing more than to be rock stars, which many people in the "tr00 vndergr0vnd" see as being completely in opposition to the ideals of black metal (whatever those are), also the pseudo-intellectual/philosophical posturing which they surround themselves with is repellant. 

Casus Luciferi is the only album that showed any competence and proved to be an outlier in their discography, were it not for their tie to Dissection through the MLO/Temple of The Black Light I doubt they would have achieved enough recognition through word of mouth to propel them, a mediocre by-the-numbers black metal band, out of the underground and on to a major label.

For me personally, in addition to all of that, their abuse of/killing of animals for use in "rituals" (what are they, 12?) alone is enough to make me hate them.


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## jay moth (Jan 9, 2014)

I kind of like some of their earlier albums, as they're solid, even though not exactly groundbreaking. And then they went overly melodic and such. Comparison to Dimmu Borgir actually sounds plausible.

However, while they're not that far from Dissection with all that sweetness, and as far as I remember Erik even played in Dissection for a while, only Watain gets all that hate.

Reason? My guess is Erik's ego, and all that unfortunate things he is saying during interviews. I mean, "we are satanic black metal band, for God's sake", or "we are making music for the love of our God", sounds just ridiculous.

Also:





There's something that makes me smile all the time when I see that picture, but can't really put my finger on what exactly.


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## FireInside (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm no black metal expert and I certainly don't pay any attention to the elitist shizz. I think Watain is a great band.


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## chopeth (Jan 9, 2014)

Terrible last album, what the hell happened to them?


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## gunshow86de (Jan 9, 2014)

jay moth said:


> There's something that makes me smile all the time when I see that picture, but can't really put my finger on what exactly.



It's the broken (or trve) umbrella.


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## tedtan (Jan 9, 2014)

^ Beat me to it!


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## Greyvy (Jan 9, 2014)

people don't like waitain because their music sucks. everybody assumes when you dont like a black metal bands music you are trying to be "trve" or "kvlt" when in reality they are just a shitty band


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## Lasik124 (Jan 9, 2014)

Hmm... Never heard that one before. I like Watain *Shrugs*

Now bands like that deafheaven band? I can see why people don't like that.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 9, 2014)

Cuz we're serious musicians, Joe. I got 'quipments and a van to put my 'quipments in! Evil and darkness comin' down on yo ass!!


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## liamh (Jan 9, 2014)

død;3873424 said:


> vnfamiliar


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## isthathenry (Jan 9, 2014)

I certainly do not hate them but I don't find them to be anything special. Granted, I have only heard a couple of songs from "Lawless Darkness" but after a couple of listens to "The Wild Hunt" I didn't have anything positive stick in my mind.


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## no_dice (Jan 9, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> Cuz we're serious musicians, Joe. I got 'quipments and a van to put my 'quipments in! Evil and darkness comin' down on yo ass!!



I don't think you'd fit the bill.


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## Edika (Jan 9, 2014)

Skip to 0:40


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## samdaman87 (Jan 9, 2014)

Someone told me that this band is considered girlfriend metal? WTF is that ?? I don't get it? Apparently there is a big list of bands that fall in that category that I dont understand.


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## abandonist (Jan 9, 2014)

I don't really feel anything in particular about Watain. I've heard some of their music and I couldn't tell you much of anything about it. I'm indifferent.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 9, 2014)

no_dice said:


> I don't think you'd fit the bill.



.... you, Joe. Your band sucks. *click*

And with that I'm going to Google this band so that I can constructively contribute to the thread. My apologies... But I can't think of black metal w/o hearing that skit in my head.


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## vilk (Jan 10, 2014)

samdaman87 said:


> Someone told me that this band is considered girlfriend metal? WTF is that ?? I don't get it? Apparently there is a big list of bands that fall in that category that I dont understand.



...because girlfriends only listen to metal for the image. They tend to be a fan of whichever band has the most radical looking t-shirt so they can wear it when they go to a show with you. I'm not trying to come across as chauvinistic, but I think these girlfriends definitely do make up a portion of girls who 'listen to metal', and actually I did have a girlfriend in the past that was like this... and not even joking I sort of have this memory of her telling me that she liked Watain haha


Watain is one of those black metal bands that is so uninteresting that I can't even remember what they sound like. There's a bunch of black metal bands who play this style and are really awesome at it, so bands that aren't up to par go in the bin!


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## Sofos (Jan 10, 2014)

I personally don't get all the hate. Maybe it's like Satyricon: They change, so now they are 'awful'. Personally, I fvcking love Watain. Great live, and Erik WAS kinda a dick, but Alvaro was awesome and he's nice enough to hold regular conversations on Facebook.


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## vilk (Jan 10, 2014)

Yeah, but Satyricon is good because they actually sound discernible from other metal acts. I thought most people still liked Satyricon, if not that they have gotten more popular since they sort of got this kind of original sound going for them. I think _original sound_ would be one of the last descriptors any person would stick on a Watain album.


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## rjnix_0329 (Jan 10, 2014)

If they'd knock it off with the abuse and gimmickry, I could actually support them a bit. I liked Lawless Darkness and Sworn to the Dark. But nothing pisses me off like torturing animals to "look cool".


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## abandonist (Jan 10, 2014)

SoldiersOfFilth said:


> I personally don't get all the hate. Maybe it's like Satyricon: They change, so now they are 'awful'. Personally, I fvcking love Watain. Great live, and Erik WAS kinda a dick, but Alvaro was awesome and he's nice enough to hold regular conversations on Facebook.



To be fair, when Satyricon changed the first time and did Rebel Extravaganza I loved it. What they're doing now is just... uninspired. If I want death rock I'll listen to Babylon Whores.


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## Floppystrings (Jan 10, 2014)

Like someone else said, they just don't make good music.


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## Sofos (Jan 10, 2014)

abandonist said:


> To be fair, when Satyricon changed the first time and did Rebel Extravaganza I loved it. What they're doing now is just... uninspired. If I want death rock I'll listen to Babylon Whores.



Now, Diabolical and The Age of Nero are amazing albums for me. So much groove. I never asked man, what do you think of Blasphemer-era Mayhem?


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## samdaman87 (Jan 10, 2014)

vilk said:


> ...because girlfriends only listen to metal for the image. They tend to be a fan of whichever band has the most radical looking t-shirt so they can wear it when they go to a show with you. I'm not trying to come across as chauvinistic, but I think these girlfriends definitely do make up a portion of girls who 'listen to metal', and actually I did have a girlfriend in the past that was like this... and not even joking I sort of have this memory of her telling me that she liked Watain haha
> 
> 
> Watain is one of those black metal bands that is so uninteresting that I can't even remember what they sounds like. There's a bunch of black metal bands who play this style and are really awesome at it, so bands that aren't up to par go in the bin!


HAHAha I should have known! Most girls only care about those kind of things so I should have known. I have never heard of this band ever and someone said that they sound like old In Flames and if that is not true then I am going to kick that guy in the balls for lying. Going to listen to the earlier stuff and I will let you guys know.


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## abandonist (Jan 10, 2014)

SoldiersOfFilth said:


> Now, Diabolical and The Age of Nero are amazing albums for me. So much groove. I never asked man, what do you think of Blasphemer-era Mayhem?



With Mayhem, the only albums I need are De Mysteris and Ordo ad Chao. I know it's weird, but I just never clicked with anything after Mysteris until Chao came out. Now that's my favorite of theirs by far.


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## Sofos (Jan 10, 2014)

abandonist said:


> With Mayhem, the only albums I need are De Mysteris and Ordo ad Chao. I know it's weird, but I just never clicked with anything after Mysteris until Chao came out. Now that's my favorite of theirs by far.



Grand Declaration of War and Chimera are mine, though probably because I'm a big Maniac fan, as well as Blasphemer. I'm interested to hear how the Charles Hedger-era Mayhem sounds.


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## MemphisHawk (Jan 10, 2014)

Hey, I'm black and I don't hate them.


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## jwade (Jan 10, 2014)

I don't like Watain mainly because the music is boring as shit, but also because of the obnoxious singer sounding like a tool in every single interview.


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## TheDeathOfMusic (Jan 11, 2014)

I saw them live when I was 13 and my god it was amazing. But I can totally understand the issue people have with the animal abuse and shit.
Still, if you don't like something, just don't listen to it.


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## fps (Jan 11, 2014)

vilk said:


> ...because girlfriends only listen to metal for the image. They tend to be a fan of whichever band has the most radical looking t-shirt so they can wear it when they go to a show with you. I'm not trying to come across as chauvinistic,



And yet....


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 11, 2014)

Now that I've listened to them the only real beef I have with them is that you can't hear the bass like pretty much every black metal band. 

They're kinda interesting to me. Some of their riffs almost sound like punk riffs...


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## Ironbird666 (Jan 11, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> Now that I've listened to them the only real beef I have with them is that you can't hear the bass like pretty much every black metal band.
> 
> They're kinda interesting to me. Some of their riffs almost sound like punk riffs...



.... What? Are you sure you're listening to Watain? They have pretty loud, punchy bass on their albums, ESPECIALLY the later albums. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but I'm hearing a pretty gritty, punchy distorted bass tone on the albums I have.


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## Varcolac (Jan 12, 2014)

Because animal abuse is neither big nor clever, but mostly because the music is the essence of "meh." 

Don't hate them - can't muster the effort to hate something so by-the-numbers.


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## Fiction (Jan 12, 2014)

Because Watain clan ain't nuttin' to .... with.. wait, that's not right..


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## Nats (Jan 12, 2014)

Fiction said:


> Because Watain clan ain't nuttin' to .... with.. wait, that's not right..


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## Sofos (Jan 12, 2014)

Why does everyone go on about animal abuse? They don't abuse animal. They get their heads and blood from butchers shops



> Danielsson says the group's production company worked out all the appropriate paperwork to transport the animal parts to the States from Sweden.
> 
> "It's good that they come to use, instead of just laying around, rotting in some ditch somewhere," he exclaims about the remains. "Now they can become part of something very beautiful and sacred.
> 
> Danielsson notes "a lot of people mistake us using animal parts as some kind of animal cruelty issue. We've been having a lot of animal protesters over the past few years, but it's a very ironic thing to me. I'm the last person to advocate animal cruelty. I have quite a harsh view on that. I don't see how people make that connection to us. It's never been about abusing anything. It's about putting something in a more beautiful, sacred context. To me, that's a very honorable thing. As an animal activist, there should be far worse things to waste your energy on rather than us using a few bones."


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## Dethyr (Jan 12, 2014)

It could be because Watain sucks but it's more likely because once a band in the black metal genre gets more than 100 fans, the elitist black metal people start hating it (even though they secretly don't).

But... at the end of the day, Watain just isn't good and they are using material and gimmicks that just aren't coming across kvlt enough for the "purists"


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## Xaios (Jan 12, 2014)

SoldiersOfFilth said:


> Now, Diabolical and The Age of Nero are amazing albums for me. So much groove. I never asked man, what do you think of Blasphemer-era Mayhem?



"Now, Diabolical" was my first exposure to Satyricon. My first reaction = "whaaat the fuuuuuuu...??" More groove than a James Brown album.


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## Necris (Jan 12, 2014)

SoldiersOfFilth said:


> Why does everyone go on about animal abuse? They don't abuse animal. They get their heads and blood from butchers shops



I understand your willingness to believe what he has said, but be aware that only pertains to their live performances. I remember an interview he gave on metal kult where he spoke about how the band would kill pigeons for fun and to collect blood while on tour and bragged about how they tried to buy a drug addicts dog to kill it for it's blood. He has also alluded to abusing animals in other interviews. 

Theres this link, where the video in question is referenced but the link to it is dead. 
Watain On Killing Pigeons for Blood


There's also this: 


"I mean... there are, unfortunately, laws that prevent sacrifices on stage, but you know things happen back stage as well; and we always... we always get what we want in the end".

If he was lying he's a moron; considering their stage show. And if he was telling the truth he's a moron as well as a coward who preys on things smaller and weaker than himself. 

Assuming for a moment that it is true; the band do all of this in the name of what exactly? Some new religion someone came up with in their basement?
Interesting that Watain are given a pass for blind devotion to an idea while a band with Christians in it would be ridiculed for the same thing.


Unfortunately the metal kult video where he is more explicit is down, so I suppose it's my word against against the word of a member of a band you clearly admire. I'm certain I already know who you'll believe.


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## Sofos (Jan 12, 2014)

I don't doubt you, I said before I love the band, but not Erik so much. He's a jackass. i think he was probably just trying to sound evil, though. He does that a lot in interviews. In one he said he talks to Satan for instance. But its all part of the image


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## Dethyr (Jan 13, 2014)

jwade said:


> I don't like Watain mainly because the music is boring as shit,* but also because of the obnoxious singer sounding like a tool in every single interview.*



This is also what turned me off Gorgoroth, that dude is a complete douche. These guys are trying SO HARD 24-7 to be "evil" and "dark". Why not be like Immortal and have some fun with it for frig sakes. Those dudes are awesome in interviews and they get that people find them cheesy and play on it. 

Mayhem is the same way, that band should have dissolved over a decade ago but a couple of them are still trying to hold on to it. In interviews they just get douchier and douchier.


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## SandyRavage (Jan 13, 2014)

I just don't understand fan of a genre hating a particular band. I don't care for certain things, or don't listen to them but don't go out of my way to despise them.

Watain is awesome and one of the most elaborate and fun live shows I've ever been too, don't particularly care for the music but I still think there cool.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 13, 2014)

Ironbird666 said:


> .... What? Are you sure you're listening to Watain? They have pretty loud, punchy bass on their albums, ESPECIALLY the later albums. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but I'm hearing a pretty gritty, punchy distorted bass tone on the albums I have.



I'll listen again on good speakers. I was listening through my cell phone and different mixing techniques seem to come through way differently.


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## død (Jan 14, 2014)

Dethyr said:


> This is also what turned me off Gorgoroth, that dude is a complete douche. These guys are trying SO HARD 24-7 to be "evil" and "dark". Why not be like Immortal and have some fun with it for frig sakes. Those dudes are awesome in interviews and they get that people find them cheesy and play on it.
> 
> Mayhem is the same way, that band should have dissolved over a decade ago but a couple of them are still trying to hold on to it. In interviews they just get douchier and douchier.



Immortal are only fvnny when they play outside of Norway. When they play shows here, they're the vnfvnniest, most kvlt people ever. It's super lame.


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## SeditiousDissent (Jan 14, 2014)

MemphisHawk said:


> Hey, I'm black and I don't hate them.



Surely I'm not the only one who grasped the hilarity of this. It was the best post on the entire thread.

The Black Satans are smiling up at you from the infernal abyss


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## abandonist (Jan 14, 2014)

No, we all got it, it's just a very old joke.


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## 3trv5u (Jan 31, 2014)

vilk said:


> ...because girlfriends only listen to metal for the image. They tend to be a fan of whichever band has the most radical looking t-shirt so they can wear it when they go to a show with you.


This applies to the most of cases; I have met a a couple of REAL metalhead girls though. One of them was a huge fan of Carach Angren. We've talked alot about music and she actually knew her shit. Definately an exception, but those happen.

Back to the Watain topic. It's the metal scene. A band changes its sound and there is massive butthurt. Pretty normal. Solution: don't care and listen to whatever the f.. you want.


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## bobbybuu (Feb 1, 2014)

3trv5u said:


> This applies to the most of cases; I have met a a couple of REAL metalhead girls though. One of them was a huge fan of Carach Angren. We've talked alot about music and she actually knew her shit. Definately an exception, but those happen.
> 
> Back to the Watain topic. It's the metal scene. A band changes its sound and there is massive butthurt. Pretty normal. Solution: don't care and listen to whatever the f.. you want.




I agree if you think something is good, it's good. If you think it sucks, it's sucks. Forget the rest. I liked the last Watain album.


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## TheDeathOfMusic (Feb 1, 2014)

Necris said:


> "I mean... there are, unfortunately, laws that prevent sacrifices on stage, but you know things happen back stage as well; and we always... we always get what we want in the end".



Were you in an accident, or _born_ without a sense of irony?


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## Andromalia (Feb 1, 2014)

Dethyr said:


> This is also what turned me off Gorgoroth, that dude is a complete douche. These guys are trying SO HARD 24-7 to be "evil" and "dark".


You do realise it's roleplay, right, even for the most extreme guys ? (Ok, most of them, Vikernes doesn't count) when Gaahl and Infernus had a disagreement about the band, they didn't go duel with two handed swords in the forest, they hired _lawyers_.


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## GalacticDeath (Feb 1, 2014)

I don't think they even know why they hate Watain. 

People just like to hate on things. Just like they enjoy certain bands, they like to hate on other bands, it makes them feel more united as a community.

It's the bandwagon effect


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## Necris (Feb 1, 2014)

TheDeathOfMusic said:


> Were you in an accident, or _born_ without a sense of irony?



Already explained my issue with the statement and with the band. Try again.


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## TylerEstes (Feb 2, 2014)

GalacticDeath said:


> I don't think they even know why they hate Watain.
> 
> People just like to hate on things. Just like they enjoy certain bands, they like to hate on other bands, it makes them feel more united as a community.
> 
> It's the bandwagon effect




Most of the time the bandwagon effect has nothing to do with it. I like some of their songs but I'm not a fan of their vocals or song layouts but their guitars are pretty good sometimes. But overall I'm not a fan. 

I didn't even know there was a "hate on Watain" bandwagon. 

Having long hair and wearing black all the time is a bandwagon and listening only to metal is a bandwagon. I used to listen to nothing but metal, but then I stopped being a teenager. 

But just because some people dislike a band doesn't make them mindless bandwagoneers. People hating on Miley Cyrus and calling any form of ass-movement "twerking?" HUGE ignorant bandwagon.


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## Chiba666 (Jun 21, 2015)

Can you necro a Black Metal thread, lol.


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## Vhyle (Jun 21, 2015)

As a huge black metal fan, I feel compelled to contribute. Even though this thread was created last Thursday, 100 years ago.

Watain? Eh, they're alright. They don't stand out as far as black metal goes. Their egos (Erik, mostly) are a bit deterring.

There are soooo many more, much better black metal bands out there.


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