# Help: Ear Training Routine / Practice



## Osorio (Dec 21, 2012)

I recently decided to take up the challenge and work on training my ear. 
Thing is, I&#8217;m not entirely sure how.

I began by going to Ricci Adam&#8217;s Music Theory and doing some Interval exercises. Since I KNOW I suck at this, I limited my options to intervals of an octave and a perfect 5th. I got about 79 out of 100 on my first run, but I came to realize that I was more &#8220;guessing&#8221; than actually KNOWING what the interval was.
After searching some posts here, I realized I should have included the 4th. But alas...

So I tweaked my methods a little bit, integrated a keyboard, and came up with this &#8220;workflow&#8221;:

&#8226; Listen to the interval. Try to figure out what it is instantly. I rarely answer here, unless I&#8217;m absolutely sure of what the interval is, but most of the time I'll go to the next step just to be sure.
&#8226; Sing it back. Check if my instinct was correct. If I&#8217;m sure, I answer.
&#8226; If in doubt, I&#8217;ll play what I think the interval is in the piano, in the key of C, and see if it &#8220;feels&#8221; the same as the interval I&#8217;m being presented by the exercise. If I&#8217;m sure, I answer.
&#8226; If still in doubt, I&#8217;ll try to find the exact interval being played on the keyboard.

I resort to that last step more than I would like, but I&#8217;ve realized that if the reference (first) pitch is really low, everything sounds like a 5th, and if it is really high, everything sounds like an octave. 
Some are REALLY obvious; but even with the aid of the keyboard I got some of the lowest and highest ones wrong.

I got a &#8220;score&#8221; of 93 out of 100 by doing the above, but it sort of feels like cheating. Still, I feel like it could work better than just doing guess-work.

But that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that I have no idea of how to practice this. 

Am I on the right track? Is there something I&#8217;m doing wrong? Or is there something I&#8217;m not doing that I should?
Definitely, and desperately, need some input on this one...

Thanks in advance! 


Also: I&#8217;ve also been trying to learn songs by ear. Not working that well, but I&#8217;ve been trying.


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## Solodini (Dec 21, 2012)

If it helps you to learn them correctly then there's nothing wrong with it. Just because there's a test, doesn't mean that's the end goal. The test is a way to quantify your progress. As you progress, the outside methods should become less necessary but remain comparibly accurate, if not improve in accuracy.


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## redstone (Dec 21, 2012)

Forget the octave and focus first on the 4th and 5th .. ask yourself which note attracts you the most, which one you wanna sing first .. sing it .. if it's the lowest one, your interval should be a 5th. If it's the highest, it should be a 4th.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2012)

What's your end goal in all this? Just expanding your musicality? Just curious.


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## Osorio (Dec 21, 2012)

My end goal is to improve my hearing of intervals, so I can understand music better, appreciate it more, and be able to learn it faster.
I'm in route to deepen my knowledge of harmony, form and composition, so after intervals, I plan on studying Harmonic Ear Training and other such things so I can better understand music and have a better shot a creating interesting music.

I realize now I may have overstated the importance of the "score" in my original post.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2012)

Oh ok. I was just wondering. Some of the things you're doing now I think are things I do subconsciously (not necessarily accurately all the time either) and can't put a name to... 

Maybe I should try some formal training as well. I usually hear a chord and think... Well since I know it all resolves to __ key I bet I could play this note here...


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## wespaul (Dec 21, 2012)

Drill singing intervals. Not just what you're quizzing yourself on, but do actual vocal exercises to sing stuff like 1-3-5-3-1 and 1-b3-5-b3-1. You don't have to be a great singer to do this, just find your range and work on singing the major scale, then singing (and feeling) the distance between 1 and 3, then 3 and 5, etc. 

Make a CD of vocal exercises and do them in the car. You'll find yourself hearing and recognizing intervals better in no time.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2012)

This might be almost the same thing, but for fun I also practice attempting to sing harmonies to things I sing along to in the car rather than singing it note for note to see how close I come to hitting the harmonies. It gets better and better over time.


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## Osorio (Dec 21, 2012)

wespaul said:


> Drill singing intervals. Not just what you're quizzing yourself on, but do actual vocal exercises to sing stuff like 1-3-5-3-1 and 1-b3-5-b3-1. You don't have to be a great singer to do this, just find your range and work on singing the major scale, then singing (and feeling) the distance between 1 and 3, then 3 and 5, etc.
> 
> Make a CD of vocal exercises and do them in the car. You'll find yourself hearing and recognizing intervals better in no time.



I was wondering if doing something like that would have been a better bet than going for the keyboard. I used to do this quite often when I was a kid and sung choir, not so much right now (since I don't sing anymore).

The only drawback of that, and what kept me from going back to it inthe first place, is that I don't really have a lot of space, or time, to practice singing anymore. People get annoyed at the repetition and I get self-concious REALLY quickly. The car advice would have been fantastic if I had a car, or new how to drive. Alas... Might have to suck it up....


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2012)

People are probably going to get annoyed at the reptition when you're trying to learn anything audible. Maybe THEY should suck it up.


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## Osorio (Dec 21, 2012)

I don't really care that people get annoyed, I've played guitar for 10 years; I pissed plenty of people off. 
I do care that *I* feel awkward about my singing. I enjoy singing and I'm always singing along to stuff when I'm alone. Drilling voice is an entirely different beast, however, and I feel extremely self-conscious about it. Hearing my own voice that loud (not that I shout, I just live in a very quiet place) is an extremely uncomfortable experience for me...

@wespaul
Also, how would a CD of vocal exercises go? Just a sing a long of exercises? I could use some MIDI to make that up, if that's the case... I would much rather have SOMETHING doing some noise with me then going solo...


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2012)

I can understand 100%. I sing much more confidently when folks aren't around. And as luck would have it, that's when I feel I sound best. I'm afraid to record myself and find out though.


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## wespaul (Dec 21, 2012)

The CD I have is of my teacher playing piano, and I sing along with it. I sing solfege, but you could do numbers. I wouldn't recommend singing solo. The whole point is to learn to hear the intervals, so you need an instrument of some sort to make sure you're on pitch. 

Don't worry about bothering people. The point of the exercise is to be on pitch, not belt as loud as you can. You can easily do these exercises at bedroom volumes without disturbing people. 

Trust me --I'm not a singer. My teacher advised me to do this on my first day of theory class last year and I put it off until a few months ago because I was so insecure with how I sounded, when that wasn't even the point. I had a good ear, and I could have somebody play a chord and I'd get it 80% of the time, but that's because I wasn't listening to intervals, but rather trying to remember where I heard the chord before. If somebody played a major 7 chord, I'd think "hmmmm...that's the first chord in the chestnuts christmas song, and I know that's a major 7 chord because I've played that song a lot."

It was so backwards, but it worked a lot for me. I feel much better being able to find the tonic, then singing the 3rd and figuring if its major or minor, then doing the same with the rest. It's a level of confidence I wouldn't trade for the old way I did it. 

You've sung choir, so you should remember your vocal warmups. Play them on piano, record them, and then sing along with them for 10-15 minutes a day. You'll improve so fast. I'd also recommend practicing writing out familiar melodies. Take the "Oh Christmas Tree" melody, and see about transcribing it on staff paper. When you're done, play it on the piano to see if it sounds right. 

Sorry for the rambling (at least it feels like rambling when you type this much on an ipad)


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## Repner (Dec 21, 2012)

When it comes to stuff like the interval program, best thing to do rather than guess the interval is to turn on the major notes and turn off the minors, and when you hear a tone, try and sing or hum through the major scale notes until you get to the note you're looking for. Gradually you'll get better at this and eventually you'll start to recognise certain intervals automatically (and perhaps make a decent singer out of you ).

Once you get good at this, try it the other way around. Make a list of intervals, play a root note on your instrument, and sing the interval. Then play the interval on the instrument to see if you're anywhere near.


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## Osorio (Dec 21, 2012)

@wespaul:
No rambling, thanks a lot for the advice. I thought about doing song associations, and while that would work for the most common intervals, it is a very limited solution...

I was very young when I had choir, but I remember the basics, and my theory does enough for me that I can sort of figure out how something like this would go. I'll record a major scale as well as several tendency tone pairings... Would that be ok? Kinda like: Do, Re, Do; Do, Si, Do; Do Fa Mi; Do Sol Do, etc...?
I have this vague memory that we had a piece that was extremely intervalic, and sang that as warm up. I would LOVE to remember the name of that piece... But I don't.

@Repner
Thanks for the advice. Singing "middle notes" is something I generally try to avoid, but I can't really understand why I would do that, now that I think about it. I think it was because I generally get lost on the way... But that will improve!

Really wish I could take some singing lessons. It would surely do me wonders. Maybe next year.


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## Repner (Dec 23, 2012)

Ugh. Had to rewrite the second part of my post. How did I mess that up?


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 23, 2012)

venneer said:


> I'll record a major scale as well as several tendency tone pairings... Would that be ok? Kinda like: Do, Re, Do; Do, Si, Do; Do Fa Mi; Do Sol Do, etc...?



This is a very good idea. When I drive, I'm resolving dominant seventh chords. 

You've gotten a lot of good advice here, and I suggest that you apply as much of it as you can. Sing with an instrument, sing solo, record yourself, harmonize above other singers or instruments, sing countermelodies based on your knowledge of harmony, learn songs that have certain intervals at obvious places (Minor sixths are not common intervals in melodies. The prelude of Wagner's 'Tristan und Isolde' begins with a minor sixth, as does ELP's 'The Endless Enigma'. I composed a solo flute piece based on the minor sixth to help me with that one.), identify the interval that two glasses make when they clink together... the possibilities are endless.


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## Osorio (Dec 23, 2012)

Thanks a lot for all the advice! I'm in the process of making my vocal exercises CD.

A lot of what has been suggested in terms of singing with songs, counter melodies, harmonizing and etc I have been doing for an eternity. The real issue is turning this so far sub-conscious effort into a conscious effort. I feel like I have a pretty good "instinctive" relative ear, I just get absolutely lost when I have to pay attention and effectively know what is happening in songs... But know at least I know how to practice getting this stuff down. Having a better understanding of intervals and being able to sing them effectively will surely aid me into making all those previously mentioned activities more consciously.

Thanks a lot for all the help! Time to get cranking!


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