# Marshall JCM800.. Go or no go?



## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

yo.. 

Right now I'm playing on a ENGL Fireball with Hughes&Kettner 412 V30 cabinet along with my Epi LP with EMG 60/81 and Ibanez S7320. 
I've used this amp for nearly 2 years now and it's pretty wicked for extreme, death and black metal. But I think it's got too much gain and very uncomfortable mids/brightnes. 
+ The cab is too big for me to move around.. My father bought a smaller sedan car.. 

Already found a guy who's interested in buying it. 

I've checked around, and here's the list of amps I'm considering:

Marshall JCM800 2205 w/ 2x12 Framus V30 cabinet
Marshall JMP-1 w/ 2x12 cab
Mesa Boogie Rect-O-Verb Single Rectifier combo
Diezel Einstein 50 combo
Orange Rocker 30 combo (very ugly..) 
ENGL Screamer <<< Awesome amp, but isn't it boring to convert from ENGL to another ENGL?? 


The main problem with the sound of my Fireball is that it's a one-trick-pony. I need a amp with clearer distortion sound and a bit more versatile. 
JCM800 2205 and Framus 212V30 cab or a Marshall JVM are my first choices right now. 

*but I wonder how the JCM800, with tubescreamer-like overdrive in front to boost it, sounds for heavy but clear distortion for detuned guitars and 7stringers? *

keywords: I'm only looking for a MAX 50w tubeamp with 212 cab or a combo.. 

Thanks!


btw.. Here's a pic of my recent rig:


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## budda (Jul 30, 2010)

TERRORHORSE (NEW SONGS! BOOK US!) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

one guitarist runs a JCM800, the other a dual rec.


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

Seriosly? Sounds like the left side of the mix is JCM800'ish. 
I don't trust recordings, but they show the potential of how a amp might sound. Awesome! 
What kind of boost/overdrive is the JCM800 using there?


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## signalgrey (Jul 30, 2010)

JCM800's are classics.
sound awesome IMHO. If its a good price go for it.


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks guys. Those are the reasons why I want JCM800 and get rid of my Fireball. 
Because I need something more oldschool/classic but still brutal and clear. + the prices are very comfortable. 
I think I'll go for used JCM800 2205 with a new Framus 212V30 cab. 
And how cool isn't it to own an amp from the 80's, which is older than myself  

Still.. Tips and suggestions would be nice. I've got plenty of time (3 weeks) to decide. 
Any suggestions on the boost/overdrive front for JCM800? I've got a Boss OD-3m which is pretty alright. But I might sell it and invest in a better OD as tubescreamer, Route 66 or something like that. or even SD-1, i've heard people getting awesome sound with Marshall, Laneys, Mesa and SD-1 in front. I need a pedal that doesn't color the good Marshall'ish tube sound, but still tighten it up. i might think that the OD-3 is a bit too compressed for this usage. But i'll give it a try anyways.

I was considering a Peavey 6505 too, but it also seems like a one-trick-pony og 120w is waaaay too overkill for me.

Budda: Where is it possible to download the tracks of the myspace link that you posted? I would love to hear a track without the Myspace compression.


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 30, 2010)

MXR ZW44,made to go infront of jcm 800s


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## Sang-Drax (Jul 30, 2010)

My favorite tones come from jcm800's. I wish I had one =/


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

Sell you POD X3 and you can almost afford an used JCM800 combo


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## metalvince333 (Jul 30, 2010)

So....you sell the engl cause its a one trick pony but you replace it with a jcm 800?

IMO its really good at what it does but out of old school metal/rock overdriven tones I dont see what else you can do with it. Especially cause its a single channel amp. If you only have one sound then go for it but if you need a big distortion, good cleans I say get the Orange or the mesa (the rectoverb being the best mesa I've ever heard)

I dont like to be the party pooper here so let me just say that if you really want a jcm 800, check the kerry king signature, its basicly a jcm800 but you have the option of boosting the gain wich is awesome.

these are all great amps so yeah...good luck dude!


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## metalvince333 (Jul 30, 2010)

metalvince333 said:


> So....you sell the engl cause its a one trick pony but you replace it with a jcm 800?
> 
> IMO its really good at what it does but out of old school metal/rock overdriven tones I dont see what else you can do with it. Especially cause its a single channel amp. If you only have one sound then go for it but if you need a big distortion, good cleans I say get the Orange or the mesa (the rectoverb being the best mesa I've ever heard)
> 
> ...


Just realised its a 100w head but you can always remove half of the powertubes and make it 50w


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## Sang-Drax (Jul 30, 2010)

BabUShka said:


> Sell you POD X3 and you can almost afford an used JCM800 combo



A JCM800 head goes for around US$ 2.5-3k used in this shithole where I live


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## cradleofflames (Jul 30, 2010)

The 2205/2210 is TOTALLY different than the 2203/2204 everyone is familiar with. That model varies depending on when it was built. They were the first Marshall to have a part solid-state preamp. The version prior to 85 had something more like a fuzz circuit built in while the later version has a more typical distortion pedal type circuit. I've never heard the early version but the supposedly sound like crap.

As for the late version it's what Tom Morello has always used; Jeff Young on Megadeth's "So Far, So Good, So What"; and Günter Schulz played one on all of the 90s KMFDM material.

The amp shouldn't need a boost since they have significantly more gain than a typical JCM800.

As for versatility the 2205 is primitive for a channel switching amp. The shared EQ and dull voicing on the clean channel amount to be it being usable but far less than ideal. In my experience the Engl Screamer isn't much better. I say find your cab and then find the amp you want to use with it. Look into the various thiele style 1x12s. They are small, light and their clarity is amazing.

None of the amps you listed are ideal. A combo amp is portable in size but they tend to be really heavy. Regardless they don't work particularly well for metal since they are open back.


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

^ Ah man, that sucks.. I thought Norway was expensive..  



metalvince333 said:


> So....you sell the engl cause its a one trick pony but you replace it with a jcm 800?
> 
> IMO its really good at what it does but out of old school metal/rock overdriven tones I dont see what else you can do with it. Especially cause its a single channel amp. If you only have one sound then go for it but if



Hehe, one channel is not a problem for me and I dont really care that much for a good clean sound. I don't have the need to switch between classic rock to metal sound in a second. As long as it can do several things, it's not a problem for me to tweak it back and forth. My problem is that the ENGL can do extreme metal.. Thats it. It's a great amp, no doubt. But I just want a clearer tone and the possibility to play some oldschool rock too. The Fireball just got tooo much gain for my choise. I run the gain at 3/10. There's no possibility to get a usable crunch sound without turning the gain at 10/10 with fully cranked volum  And it doesnt like overdrive/distortion pedals. 
And i suffer of GAS.. The need to try something new, something different. 
Listen to the new Slayer albums. Brutal, heavy metal riffs! 
But I can see your point. I really like the brown sound of Mesa too. That a huge dilemma, cause those amps are pretty different. 
And thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. I will still visit some music stores and try out JCM800 vs Mesa before I decide 100%. 

Craddleofflames: 

Awesome man.. I didnt know that! I'm lookin for the "good" version with only one channel, 50w. 
So your point is that I should go for 2203 or 2204? Can you please tell me more about this, what I should look for?


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## cradleofflames (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm not saying that the later version 2205 is bad just different. In fact I think I like it better than a 2203/2204. To get metal tones out of a 2203/2204 you have to boost the amp. In essence the 2205 has it built in. Unfortunately it's boost is a fixed value and is always on, I don't know how it would effect trying to get classic sounds out of it, I've never tried.

As 2203/2204 go they vary equally depending on when it was built. The reissues aren't very good and you definitely don't want a 2203/2004 from 85 or later because if anything they're worse. That year they cheaped on components. The obvious switch is going from vertical to horizontal inputs since they could then mount them directly to the circuit board. They also cut the number of filter caps in the power section without redesigning it so it tends to be bright and fizzy. As for distinguishing between an original and the reissue the rocker switches are different. The new design is a curved switch while the original is too straight pieces meeting at an angle.

Richie Blackmore and Steve Morse both use Engls and they manage pretty classic tones. I'm personally not a fan of Engl in general but the Blackmore is designed to have a wider range of tones available than much of their more metal oriented product line.

Extreme metal of any kind isn't my cup of tea for the most part so I can't guarantee any amp I'd recommend would have enough gain for you. I can guarantee for the most part that any amp I recommend will do classic heavy rock-thrash in spades.


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

Aha.. Thanks for the info! I'll need to do more reseach. 
Blackmore is very brutal for metal actually. But it's not that easy to find a used Blackmore. And the private sellers often "overprice" them. My budget is a bit tight. I can only use the money that I get after selling my old rig. 
I'm looking of something ala the new Slayer. The KK signature is also pretty wicked, but then again.. I aint got money for it right now. 

The gain amount is not that important as long as I can boost the signal for more gain. I'm that huge fan of people who uses too much gain, even for the most extreme metal riffage. Less gain = tighter and clearer sound imo,.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 30, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> JCM800's are classics.
> sound awesome IMHO. If its a good price go for it.



Exactly. That amp has been featured on countless albums by damn near everyone. Definitely go for it. Are you able to try it out first or are you ordering online?

Also, remember to crank that thing!


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

I'll just wait and see. I'll buy it second hand, if I'm lucky I'll be able to try it out.. Which I prefer ofc. 

I'm still a bit unsure which version to choose for brutal metal riffage. 
It seems like the 2205 has pretty shitty cleans. For me the clean channel doesnt have to be Fender-like, but it would be nice to have the opportunity to tweak some usable cleans at least! 
My criteria is that it can't be more than 50w and it need a Master volume knob. 
Help =p


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## Andromalia (Jul 30, 2010)

I'd have advised a stiletto (Since the JCMs are 100W) when I saw you were from Norway and suffer the ridiculous mesa prices over here.


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## Sang-Drax (Jul 30, 2010)

If your guitar has separate volume knobs, you can get a nice clean by rolling your neck pickup volume knob off a bit. This is the great thing about an uncompressed amp such as this... you can be very versatile with just one channel.

Or else you could buy a decent, cheapish unit such as a gsp1101 or a pod and use the 4-cable method for decent clean tones.


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## BabUShka (Jul 30, 2010)

yeeah.. Pretty much everything is expensive here, but especially Mesa.. If I had the money, I would go for Axe-Fx, poweramp and a good cab =p 
How about the Mesa boogie Mark III ? 
As I told, i have some weeks to decide what to go for. So I'm still open for suggestions. 
The JVM and Diezel are also tempting right now. At least with the JVM I know what I get. Plug n' play, thick distortion and decent versatile. And I know that I will not regret =p 

Also found a Carvin Legacy not that far away from where I live. Any thoughts? 

As for the JCM800, I don't think I'd dare to gamle on it unless I'm able to try it out and see its condition.

EDIT: Sang-Drax: yeah, i've used the volume-trick a lot of times at gigs. I've also got a POD XT.. =p


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## cradleofflames (Jul 30, 2010)

The 2205's clean channel isn't bad because it lacks headroom. It's bad because it tends to be dull therefore hard to hear in a group unless you dial in the amp bright in general. Shared EQ on any amp is a balancing act unless they're voiced absolutely perfect.

The thousands of albums recorded with JCM800s were largely recorded with 100 watt 2203s and 50 watt 2204s where as the 2210 and 2205 like the source of this topic are looking at is totally different. I would say they almost have more in common with the 2555 like Slash used to record Illusions.

I don't really know what it's like but I hear Diezels are cheap over there. Don't go for a combo amp because most of them are open back so the low end will be really loose, find a good closed back 2x12 and go. Perhaps Diezel would be the best bet again.

The new Marshalls and Carvins aren't built very well nor sound very good IMO.

It sounds like you don't really know what you want. There are two says that I've seen that seem to fit in this situation:
1. Buy once, buy right
- Meaning don't buy anything to get you by because it will cost you more in the long run.

2. When in doubt go with a modeler
- Since you don't seem to not know what you want the modeler well be versatile, reliable, and inexpensive.

You already have a Pod XT after all, loads of big name artists use them. Start building infrastructure around it, ie: solid-state power amp and cabs or powered monitors. Plan to upgrade to a Digitech 1101, Digidesign 11R, or Axe FX eventually.


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## BabUShka (Jul 31, 2010)

Vise words. I'm already planning to buy the Metal pack for POD. 
I will eventually need a good amp because I love playing in band. And you're right, I'm not sure what to buy at all. There are soo mange amp I would like to own, but they all are different. I guess next step would be to visit a local music store and try as many different amps as I can.


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## cow 7 sig (Jul 31, 2010)

if you really have the funds( or can save),instead of a MKIII look into a IV.V will be still expensive.
i never got on with /cant get on with my jcm800 or my 900.


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## The Echthros (Jul 31, 2010)

if youre gonna go with an oldy but goody...why not go with a 6550 loaded jmp


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## BabUShka (Jul 31, 2010)

They're not that easy to find here in Norway =/


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## The Echthros (Jul 31, 2010)

> Also found a Carvin Legacy not that far away from where I live. Any thoughts?



That is a sick amp for sure!


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## BabUShka (Aug 1, 2010)

For metal too? Good thing it has a 50/100 switch. I've heard it's pretty awesome for cleans and rock sound. but Metal? 
The price and condition of this amp is very good. I can save some bucks here.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Aug 1, 2010)

BabUShka said:


> yeeah.. Pretty much everything is expensive here, but especially Mesa.. If I had the money, I would go for Axe-Fx, poweramp and a good cab =p
> How about the Mesa boogie Mark III ?
> As I told, i have some weeks to decide what to go for. So I'm still open for suggestions.
> The JVM and Diezel are also tempting right now. At least with the JVM I know what I get. Plug n' play, thick distortion and decent versatile. And I know that I will not regret =p
> ...



Mark IIIs are my personal favorite amps. Very brutal yet clear and analog sounding. 

You can't go wrong with an 800 either.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 1, 2010)

Hmm... what is the reason you want a 50 w head? 50 watts vs. 100 watts isn't about volume; it's about headroom. If you want 50 watts so you can lower the volume, you aren't gonna achieve much in that direction. I believe the difference in volume from a 50 watt to a 100 watt is 10 decibels or something close. I'd go with what gets you your tone in your budget and forget about the rest [such as requiring that it is 50w].


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## BabUShka (Aug 1, 2010)

heh, thanks. I actually think it's as much as 3db difference between 50 and 100w 
But I thought that 50w breaks a little bit faster at lower volums. 
Anyways.. I'm stuck at Hughes&Kettner TriAmp, Marshall JVM and JCM800 right now =p


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## Sang-Drax (Aug 2, 2010)

Isn't the H&K a lot more expensive than the others?


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## BabUShka (Aug 2, 2010)

Yeah, new price is insane. But it's a guy i know from some other guitar forums, and he made a good offer to me. Would be the same price as the JVM. 
Checked some videos now.. It has an INSANE clean channel. But too modern high gain for me I think.. Sounds like a much better version of the Fireball. I'm kinda up to try something different =/ 
I've got some good offers on different amps, but I can't decide until I try em out when I get out from the army, in two weeks. Still no good offer on the JVM though.. They are like 5-10% cheaper 2nd hand than buying a new one =/


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 2, 2010)

You could clean boost the ENGL?...Get a TS-9 or something along those lines.


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## BabUShka (Aug 2, 2010)

The ENGL is moving out anyway. I have to get rid of the 4x12 cab, and it's easier to sell the whole rig. The ENGL hates all distortion and overdrive pedals. 
Boosting it is almost the same as turning up the gain knob a little bit


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## BabUShka (Aug 3, 2010)

Okey my friends.. 
I've asked around here and at some other forums and got a looot of good advices which helped me. 

I've kinda decided to go for an *Orange Thunder 30* when it's released. 
Seems like the PERFECT amp for me. It's switchable between 7, 15 and 30w which makes it possible to use at bedroom levels and it's more than loud enough for playing in band. 
+ it has the f.x-loop and very versatile. I was gonna give the Orange Rocker 30 a chance, until I found out about the Thunder 30 and did some more research. 
I can only see benefits with this amp.. 

The distortion is wild, clear and tight growling 
Good clean channel
Switchable power output 
Versatile 
Looks cute 
CHEAP. 

 

Now, please don't make me change my mind, haha..


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

Get the Triamp!

It has 3 independent channels with 2 modes each with active eq, you can make it sound like anything. If I wasn't going Axe FX and it was cheaper on this side of the pond I would use one.

My living room amp is a Hughes & Kettner Edition Tube 20th Anniversary combo which has channels 1a and 2b out of the Triamp. I can personally attest it will do the cleanest cleans to metal rhythm without issue. To put that into perspective I practice my rhythm guitar playing along to Rust in Piece and I have the gain at 1 o'clock. The Triamp has 2 other modes in between and another entire channel with even more available saturation. I don't know how you feel about Rush but Alex Lifeson has used a Triamp since about 2000 so any of the recent live dvds will be that amp. I would personally recommend checking out clips of R30.


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## groph (Aug 3, 2010)

Here's a good reason to get a JCM 800


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

BabUShka said:


> I've kinda decided to go for an *Orange Thunder 30* when it's released.
> Seems like the PERFECT amp for me. It's switchable between 7, 15 and 30w which makes it possible to use at bedroom levels and it's more than loud enough for playing in band



A low gain, master volume amp will feel really stiff unless you're playing ungodly loud or are boosting the shit out of it. When using a high gain, master volume amp the wattage doesn't really effect feel and it will only sound better loud to the point of power section clipping. High-gain amps are deriving all their feel from the preamp and usually become undefined once played loud enough to start the power section clipping.

The wattage switching WILL effect the sound more than playing quiet.
1: As wattage decreases as will your bass response

Also the nature of Class A:
1. Class A has far fewer odd order harmonics than Class A/B which might be a detriment to cutting through in a band context.

2. Class A's low end will be loose compared to Class A/B


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

groph said:


> Here's a good reason to get a JCM 800




Once again it's a DIFFERENT FUCKING AMP than what he has found to be available!!!!!


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## Razzy (Aug 3, 2010)

Carvin V3.

Easily the most versatile amp I've ever owned.


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## BabUShka (Aug 3, 2010)

OKai.. First of all.. 


*Partypoopers*








cradleofflames said:


> A low gain, master volume amp will feel really stiff unless you're playing ungodly loud or are boosting the shit out of it. When using a high gain, master volume amp the wattage doesn't really effect feel and it will only sound better loud to the point of power section clipping. High-gain amps are deriving all their feel from the preamp and usually become undefined once played loud enough to start the power section clipping.




Ahh. Sounds clever. I was actually going to try out the Rocker 30 because people claims it to be very alike the JCM800. I know a guy frmo other forums who owns a Rocker 30, JCM800 2204 and 6505 for high gain metal. 
He says that the R30 is like JCM800, only better when boosted with a tubescreamer. 
So I did some research, read a lot of reviews and found out about the Thunder 30 which is supposed to be a "high gain"/hotter version of the Rocker 30. That's why I was willing to give it a try. I've got overdrive pedals to push it. 
But it seems like you've got some knowledge so I'll dont doubt you. 

My English ain't the best.. But as I understood, you don't think the Thunder 30 is an amp for my use? 

I'm really afraid to buy a 100w tube amp right now because my band got split up while I was in the military, so right now I'm on the search for a new band. That's why I'm afraid to buy amps as Marshall JCM800 cause they need to be driven pretty hard to get the sweet tone. 
The TriAmp is a bit expensive and kinda over my budget, But I'm still considering it. And from clips I've heard, it sounds very likely the Fireball and other high gain amps. Even the crunch. This is the reason why I'm looking at Marshall. It's not that "harsj" trebled amp.


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## groph (Aug 3, 2010)

cradleofflames said:


> Once again it's a DIFFERENT FUCKING AMP than what he has found to be available!!!!!


 
GNNNAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 3, 2010)

BabUShka, the harsh treble in clips on the internet could be either how the mic is picking up the sound of the amp, or the speakers. Getting a speaker with a rolled off high end, like a Super V, will make an amp either just right or dull/dark depending on the amp whereas a speaker that isn't rolled off, with more high end/presence, will make the amp sound harsh or just right depending on the voice and tone characteristics of the amp and the pickups you are running into the amp.

In conclusion, my point is, an amp isn't the only thing that dictates the tone, but everything in the chain.


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## BabUShka (Aug 3, 2010)

Yep, I totally see your point. But don't you think it's a chance to take buying an amp that is over your budget without even trying it out? 
I'll do my best to get to try most possible amps before buying a new amp. Especially Carvin. H&K, Orange and the JCM800. gettin out of military in 10 days, Still plenty of time to discus and swap some tips from experienced guys at forums like this. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em8NMQWJJgU


Listen to this. Sounds like Slayer and it's straight amp > guitar. I would love to try this amp with a good overdrive pedal in front. 
That's why I was considering it. Because it seems very brutal, that kinda tone I was looking for, Not tooo modern high gain, but Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth'ish crispy gain. And the possibility for good crunch sound for bluesy soloing and old Judas Priest, Blackmore, Sabbath style.


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

I've never personally cared for Orange in general. Their frequency focus tends to be too low so at best they don't really cut through and at worst are muddy. I will admit the Triamp CAN be harsh if you CHOOSE to dial it in that way because it probably has the most powerful but at the same time easily tweak'able EQ of any amp I've ever used. Most modern amps can be equally harsh if you choose to dial it in that way.

In my experience a JCM800 tends to be a struggle to not be too bright, harsh, and/or thin in general where as the Orange tend to be the opposite; dark and/or muddy.

The primary difference between modern amps like the Triamp and amps with a more vintage lineage like the JCM800 and the Orange is the lack of power in the EQ.


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 3, 2010)

I found the Triamp to be very "stiff" and a bit almost "digital" in sound, similar to how I felt about a few Engls I played.

Oranges on the other hand were really dynamic and punchy, with more mids than you know what to do with and a really great "roar" when driven.


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> I found the Triamp to be very "stiff" and a bit almost "digital" in sound, similar to how I felt about a few Engls I played.
> 
> Oranges on the other hand were really dynamic and punchy, with more mids than you know what to do with and a really great "roar" when driven.



Which version did you try?

I thought the Mk I was like that but it was loaded with old Svetlana (current New Sensor Corp) EL34s which I thought were the culprit. The new Mk II I played was totally different.


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 3, 2010)

No idea which version, honestly. I didn't spend too long with it, but I tweaked it for about fifteen minutes or so before giving up and moving on to the used Mark IV next to it.


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## cradleofflames (Aug 3, 2010)

The easy way to tell which version:

Plain old clear glass or blue LED logo?


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## budda (Aug 3, 2010)

I use a 100W halfstack in a townhouse with roommates at talking volumes.

I also rattle windows on the odd occasion. Food for thought, high wattage half stacks can do low volumes if it's a concern - not all, but some.


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## BabUShka (Aug 4, 2010)

Ahh, just proves the point that I can't buy any expensive amps without trying em.. no matter how good reputation they've got. cause that's what I did to my ENGL. Everyone was bragging bout how great it is, so I gambled. 
And indeed, it WAS great - but just not my cup of tea. 

As for the Orange.. I've listened to plenty of videos. It seems like those amps got the beast in them, but need to be released with some hotter pickups and a good overdrive to give it more bite and awesomeness. But still I'm afraid that no matter how great distortion they've got, they might lack some bottom.


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## cradleofflames (Aug 4, 2010)

Lacking bottom is NEVER an issue with any Orange I've ever played.

If you can give us some specific examples of tone you like it might be easier to recommend what's the best for what you're looking for. From there it would be up to you to track down and try whatever we recommend. If you can link to specific examples it would be even better since we then wouldn't have to track down and deal with any variances in encoding and what not.

I still think you shouldn't invest in a new amp and build infrastructure around modeling starting with the Pod you already have. Modeling is the wave of the future. Best of all the tone of a 1,000 watt pa power is the same on .5 as it is on 10 and would easily be louder than a 100 watt tube amp if you wanted it to.


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## BabUShka (Aug 4, 2010)

Good to know! 
Dude, i will try everything you guys recommend if I'm able to do that! 
I've got a very wide taste of sound. That's why it's so hard to decide what I'm looking for and that is why I'm trying to get as many tips as possible. So far many good advices and tips. Me being unsure doesn't mean I don't trust your advices at all  

I can post some examples of sounds that I like.. 
I'm very into the Nu Metal sounding style, but still not too soapy and modern. 
More something between hard rock, crispy growling sound with bottom. 

I REALLY dig the way the Orange thunder 30 sounds in the middle of this video. And I can only imagine how juicy metal sound you can get from it with a boost in front. But as told, I've never played an Orange amp before.. So I don't really know for sure what they are able to do:

YouTube - NAMM '10 - Orange Amps Rockerverb 50 MKII & Thunder 30 Demos, 4x10 Cab & More

That kinda tone I'm looking for, but with a little bit more bottom. 
I liek the Peavey 5150/6505 for it's tone because it's brutal, but yet not too modern sounding. But it is way to overkill amp for me today. I will eventually get one later when I'm done with my studies or have a jamming room where I can release the beast. + have a 2nd amp for better cleans and crunch.

This sounds pretty good: 
YouTube - Writing on the Walls- Underoath


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 4, 2010)

Never mind, didn't see Bab's last post.


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## BabUShka (Aug 4, 2010)

As for the POD and modeling amps.. I haven't really managed to get the ultimate metal distortion from this thing. I'm buying the Metal shop pack soon. 
And you know, I can still build a infrastructure around it by using the FX-loop of an amp and a guitar cabinet, don't you think so?  
Using it as a preamp into the tube power amp. How could that work? 
I really dig modeling amps, but I don't trust them 100% vs a real tube amp.


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## cradleofflames (Aug 5, 2010)

It would technically work but results would vary heavily due to the impact of running power amp simulations in the modeler in addition to running through a real tube power amp. Also using guitar cabs instead of cab sims somewhat limits the versatility of a modeler. Regardless putting eggs in both baskets is unwise when you have limited funds to spend.

Tubes by their vary nature are less reliable/consistent than digital/solid-state.

Short of:
1. Having an amp for every occasion (Not to mention the army and space to carry them when you might eventually have to go play out and cover a lot of styles)
2. A Place to play them LOUD (not to mention the room to store them)

You are ALWAYS sacrificing something.

When playing out as dependent on the PA as most venues want you to be it is typical to not be able to play loud enough to take advantage of your amp. There is a very good chance that an amp will sound worse than a modeler. With a modeler bad mic placement is negated entirely. Not to mention within the modeler you can set how "loud" you are playing the modeled amp so if anything it should sound better.

If you think modeling is bad look at Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp. Adrian Belew up until switching to the Axe FX used Johnson Millenium and Line 6 Vetta modeling amps. Robert Fripp has used the Roland GP-1000 modeling preamp since the late 80s.


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## BabUShka (Aug 5, 2010)

You're a vise man, thanks for the advice. 
hehe, i dont think modeling is bad. I can't manage to get the good sound with my POD XT yet, thats why I'm giving it more chances by buying the Metal pack. And to be honest, I haven't been able to tweak it enough yet. And the AxeFx is my dream. 
I'll check out the Gp-1000 too. 

I've been calling around, and the local music store has some Orange and Marshall's that I can try out. 
How much does a Axe-Fx cost? My biggest problem is that I'll have to order it from USA and pay 25% taxes. THAT sucks. 

And you know, getting a good modeling amp and some good studio monitors could be the smartest choice for me. But fuck there are many awesome tube amps that is tempting right now.. 
That Carvin Legacy+ V30 cab I've been talking about cost less than a used JCM800 2205 without cab.. But it's too overkill for me. =/ 

And all the time I'm considering different amps and modelers, but still gurgle each time i read about the JVM, JCM800 and Laney amps. Last night I've been listening a lot to Opeth and thinking.. Fuck I should get a good clean distorted amp in the Marshall-Laney ish style.. haha.. =p


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## Bevo (Aug 5, 2010)

I think if your into many different types of sounds then a quality modler is your best choice.
We jam early classic rock, 80's, and modern metal as well as some bass all with my GSP1101 >500 SS amp> 1-12 PA cab. Small rig with two guitars covers everything.

The AXE is much better than the GSP but at a much larger cost. The GSP is also much better than your POD.
Worth a look!

Why don't you trust moddlers?


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## BabUShka (Aug 5, 2010)

Maybe because I've never really tried any great modelers yet. And i try it hard to convert from a live tube amp sound to modeling amps. 
I bought my PODxt because of all the awesome YouTube videos I've heard this thing do, and because my old POD 2.0 was pretty good. I just haven't managed to tweak it to sound that good yet. But hey, i just got that thing..  
As I told, the Axe sounds just 100% perfect. It's just the price.. 

I will check out the GSP. I'm surfing at a 300bit internet right now.. Far away from the sivilisation 

You're welcome to name some more modelers that I should check out


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## Sang-Drax (Aug 5, 2010)

I have both the pod and the GSP. TBH, I haven't used the latter in a band situation yet (mostly because I'm leaving my current one), but it does nail Marshall, Vox,and Soldano tones a lot closer than the pod. Actually, so far I like the GSP better for pretty much everything, but it could be just an extensive honeymoon period.

It could be that the pod handles the br00talz better if you're after a sterile tone. The GSP is a whole lot more organic and responsive to dynamics, which means a great deal to me.


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## BabUShka (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks A LOT for all the help I got in this thread. 
I've had some troubles with finding a JCM800. 
But I found a used JVM205H for a very good price. The seller is shipping it this weekend  
The fireball is gone and I got the Framus 212V cab. Just waiting for the amp now  

Btw.. I tried the JCM800KK, and it's a pretty awesome sounding amp. Very classy, yet brutal metal sound.
Still have to try Orange amps though..


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## Soubi7string (Sep 11, 2010)

Jcm sucks.period.go with something else man


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 11, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Jcm sucks.period.go with something else man


 
Boy, are you stoned?!


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## Splees (Sep 11, 2010)

Weird, I was actually going to suggest the Thunder 30 as I kept reading. it seems like a very versatile amp and fairly inexpensive compared to the rest of their amps. it's definitely on my gas list.


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## LordOVchaoS (Sep 11, 2010)

My suggestion:

1. Sell Fireball
2. Find a Peavey VTM60
3. ..........
4. Profit

They are identical in circuitry to a JCM800 except 60 watts and 6L6 power tubes. There are also a bunch of switches to apply most of the common JCM mods. 

MUCH cheaper and more versatile than a Marshall. VERY well built too!


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## BabUShka (Sep 11, 2010)

The JVM is already on the way..! 
But I'm still GASing on JCM800KK and Thunder30 too, haha!


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## budda (Sep 11, 2010)

then you should have got the JCM800 

I have a friend's DSL50 right now, trying to sell it for him. If you're after a brighter tone, this thing gets the job done. It does metal decently, I'm happily suprised; my last time hearing it wasnt as nice an experience (but i wasnt the one playing it)


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## BabUShka (Sep 11, 2010)

hehe. Some guy tried to sell me a DSL50 for a very low price. But I refused the offer. 
JVM is a killer amp, so Im lookin forward to get better known with it! 
Tried some of those at the local music store. Pretty versatile and brutal


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 11, 2010)

Hope you enjoy your purchase.


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## Splees (Sep 11, 2010)

Ah the JVM is pretty cool too. I keep forgetting about it.


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## Guitarmiester (Sep 11, 2010)

I see the JVM get a lot of shit from people for whatever reason. I was actually very impressed with the JVM. Nice choice and have fun with it when it arrives! 

The Legacy is a great amp, but wouldn't fit your needs. It's not a metal amp in any way. It can do metal with an OD in front, but think 80's metal. I regret getting rid of my Legacy. It had the best cleans I've come across and the smoothest lead channel.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 11, 2010)

I think it gets a bad rap because the controls are a tad flimsy, and some people think the tones are buzzy/thin, but I'd assume that pushing those EL34s would really get things cooking [and get rid of that buzzy/thin tone]. That and youtube vids arent the best representation of an amp, especially when you can still hear the pick hitting the strings.


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## Soubi7string (Sep 12, 2010)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Boy, are you stoned?!



Dude I played a jcm800 and it sounded like fuzzy shit being shoved through a blender.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Dude I played a jcm800 and it sounded like fuzzy shit being shoved through a blender.


 
Sounds like something might've been wrong there, because most 80s metal were playing JCM800s and they didn't sound like fuzzy ass.


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## Soubi7string (Sep 12, 2010)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Sounds like something might've been wrong there, because most 80s metal were playing JCM800s and they didn't sound like fuzzy ass.



Iunno but it did sound like a gorillas bung hole and didn't even push enough gain.I hated the fuckin thing I even tried a 900 it was alright but the 2000 is what I liked but it lacked in the crisp tone I like


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## BabUShka (Sep 12, 2010)

Well. Those JCM800's I've played did NOT have fuzzy tone at all. Very bright and clear tone.


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## cardinal (Sep 12, 2010)

Not my clip, and it's a JMP rather than a JCM (I think they're the same thing except for some cap values and such), but I think it's a good representation of an unboosted and unmolested rockin' Marshall sound:

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/80-JMP%20Riffs.mp3


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 12, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Iunno but it did sound like a gorillas bung hole and didn't even push enough gain.I hated the fuckin thing I even tried a 900 it was alright but the 2000 is what I liked but it lacked in the crisp tone I like



A) you generally need to slam it with pedals to get "metal levels of gain"
B) you need to crank the shit out of it
C) Most metal tones are actually lower-gain tracks layered to get big and heavy
D) Very few things 'cut through' a mix like a well-dialed-in Marshall.
E) the 2000 is probably one of Marshall's worst amps, never mind the fact that a few techs have told me it has a built-in self-destruct system.


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## Soubi7string (Sep 12, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> A) you generally need to slam it with pedals to get "metal levels of gain"
> B) you need to crank the shit out of it
> C) Most metal tones are actually lower-gain tracks layered to get big and heavy
> D) Very few things 'cut through' a mix like a well-dialed-in Marshall.
> E) the 2000 is probably one of Marshall's worst amps, never mind the fact that a few techs have told me it has a built-in self-destruct system.



Well I tried it and it sounded better but overall jcm's are my least favourite amp heads.
They just didn't sound too good to me as I was told it's more of an expensive foot stool


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## Guitarmiester (Sep 13, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Well I tried it and it sounded better but overall jcm's are my least favourite amp heads.
> They just didn't sound too good to me as I was told it's more of an expensive foot stool



What amp(s) do you play that are _so_ amazing?


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## BabUShka (Sep 24, 2010)

Just have to add that I tried my new amp today.
Amazing! the ENGL had more balls, but the JVM suit me much better. Just what I was lookin for! 
Very clear and punchy cleans, smooth lowgain to brutal and classic brown sound. 
Love it! 4 channels and the reverb is very nice. I've never been fan of built-in-reverb in amps. But I actually love the reverb that this amå can deliver. 
+ it has a XLR-direct in. 
I'v post some videoes/clips later.. The amp is a my parents house.. I'm only living there at weekends


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