# Anyone here done an European tour?



## col (Feb 27, 2014)

I'd like to pick your brain a bit. Planning a tour through Sweden-Denmark-Germany-Netherlands-Belgium for two or three bands with small/mid-sized venues.

What's the going rate for a fee for a three band show? How did you bill the venue? (cash, wire transfer, check) Did you demand an advance deposit? (of 30-50%). 

How risky is it to rent a venue and sell the tickets yourself? Meaning how often did you play to empty halls?

Did you hire a PR agency to promote the tour? Did you feel it was worth it?

How did you initially contact the venues, by phone or email?

If you know of good venues in those countries feel free to suggest them. 
The cities we'll be going through will most likely be:
Stockholm
Norrköping
Copenhagen
Bremen
Amsterdam
Antwerpen
Hamburg
Gothenburg

Feel free to share anything else you might deem noterworthy. I'm sure I'll be updating this thread when I think of more questions.


----------



## Hemorrhage (Feb 27, 2014)

I have no input on this since we've only played in Brazil but I'm gonna sit and follow where this takes you.


----------



## Pat_tct (Feb 27, 2014)

Our drummer booked a tour himself for his other band.
be prepared to pay 600-1200&#8364; for a venue in germany.
if there is a sound tech involved or not I can't tell you.

But it is damn hard, and if you don't have bands that fill a venue you will most likely lose some money on the way.

but you will also learn a lot about booking and dealing with clubs and all the business side of the things (contracts, money, management etc).

Make sure you can name definite dates that you want to book the venue. plan at least 6 months ahead. for better known venues at least 9 months.

I could go into more detail if you have specific questions. I try my best to answer them, but I have you know that i only partly involved in this, as our drummer booked it and I only assisted.


----------



## col (Feb 27, 2014)

Pat_tct said:


> I could go into more detail if you have specific questions.



Well they are in the OP: 

The going rate for an unknown metal band in Finland for a pub gig is 150-200 euros, what do the bars in Germany pay? Or is it more in the line of "a case of cheap lager and a few sandwitches"?  (In which case it would be way too expensive for us to organize this).

We'll try to avoid renting a venue, those are a bit too risky, and try to find bars/pubs that would pay _us_. One way to guarantee a crowd would obviously to get a local band to play with us on the gig.

You know of any bars that have metal bands regularly and are always packed? North-west area of Germany preferably (Hamburg, Bremen).


----------



## Svava (Feb 27, 2014)

col said:


> Well they are in the OP:
> 
> The going rate for an unknown metal band in Finland for a pub gig is 150-200 euros, what do the bars in Germany pay? Or is it more in the line of "a case of cheap lager and a few sandwitches"?  (In which case it would be way too expensive for us to organize this).
> 
> ...



Man you European musicians have it good!

In Dallas they pay us to NOT play


----------



## Andromalia (Feb 27, 2014)

I need to move to Dallas.


----------



## Luppin (Feb 27, 2014)

Svava said:


> Man you European musicians have it good!
> 
> In Dallas they pay us to NOT play


 
Haha Houston's the same way, there's maybe 5 bands here that get paid to play, and they're all affiliated with Third String in one way or another


----------



## petereanima (Feb 28, 2014)

I've done my fair share of DIY-touring through the EU, and as your band (obviously) hasn't: the only way this will not automatically (!) end in a complete disaster for you is, when you get in touch with local (in the cities you want to play) bands and/or promoters.

Can you set up some shows where you live / in your area? Because gig-sharing is still a very good option. Get in touch with 2-3 other bands, every band should be able to book 2-3 shows int heir coutnry for the full package. At this point, you can already sort out half of the bands and find new ones, because they won't be able to do so. And it has to be clear: If a band can't set up at least 2 shows in their own country, they aren't ready to go on tour. It's that simple.

Still in? Great. Next one: If you are not a well-known band (and i mean within Europe at least / outside of your hometown), forget all this "what's the going rate / bill the venue / advance deposit" things you asked, because you have to be realistic about some things, and the first one is: You won't get paid. Well, mostly at least. In most cases you get food, water, some/few drinks/beers, and a place to sleep. If you are very lucky and the local promoters are generous, you will get some cash for the gas. Be also prepared to not get anything at all, that the promoter you talked to in advance doesn't even show up at the venue, and the guy who runs the venue does not give a shit about you or your band.

Oh, and with "place to sleep" I mean dirtly old mattrasses in a moist cellar, that kind of "place". O.k., that's really the worst case, but in approximately 25% of the cases I was not willing to sleep at the place that was provided. So, talk about this DETAILLED in advance, and even if you think that everything is set, still, check online available youth hostels in the city you play, make a list with them. You WILL end up needing this list.


----------



## col (Feb 28, 2014)

Yeah the bands we're talking about have been gigging in Finland and Europe already. We have three finnish bands set for this.

And we'll arrange the accomodation ourselves, it's about 20 euros a night in a hostel per head. (Or a hotel room depending on the city).

If we won't find bars/pubs that are willing to sign an advance contract and pay us a deposit fee then we won't go on tour, pure and simple. Just driving thousands and thousands of kilometers for a few beers, not going to happen. We can do that for much cheaper locally. 

Obviously this reguires some leg work:

- Find venues that have a good reputation among locals, obviously going for "any venue that will take us" will be a complete disaster.
- Hire a PR agency for promoting the tour
- Send music and audio ads to european metal podcasts and radio shows before the tour
- Look local metalheads up that might be interested on twitter and facebook and try to engage them in promoting the tour
- Try to get funding from Music Finland (organization that supports touring abroad).

Just to clarify, this won't be a month long huge tour, only 2-3 weeks and 6-8 gigs. I'd think it would be possible to find 6 bars that aren't complete dives in 9 months before the tour?


----------



## JohnIce (Feb 28, 2014)

I think Pete is spot on, the chances of getting paid look slim for you. I still think you should do it though! PR is all fine and good to a small extent but we live in a society where ads and Facebook promotion is filtered out to the best of our abilities. Touring and putting on a great show seems to be the only thing (short of a novelty YouTube hit) that can take you anywhere. And I don't know about Finland, but in Sweden people are easily impressed and more likely to book you if you claim to have been on a european tour. I would lead with that, makes you seem ambitious, exotic and by default better than local bands.

Here are some things to note about Sweden (where I live):
- Swedes are organized, comfortable and scared of strangers. That means if the club owner offers a place to sleep, it's most likely going to be a hotel or similar  The whole sleeping on the bar floor or at the bartender's sofa thing is something I hear about continental europe, but not so much here in Sweden.
- Food, gas money etc. promised by the club owner is usually done right and paid on time. It's not too common to have to chase money from a swedish club owner, especially the small sums we talk about here.
- We have a law that says any place that serves alcohol must also be able to serve hot food. So if their alcohol license is legit, they SHOULD be able to offer you a hot meal cooked in-house.
- The standard amount you get for gas money is 18,50 SEK per mile I think. That's a 10km mile btw, not whatever americans use  If you do get gas money, you can expect that amount.

As for contacting the venue: E-mail, then phone, then wait and phone again regularly until the date is decided. It's always good to lead with an e-mail because it's less intrusive and it says "Here's everything you need to know about what you're booking, look through it when you have time". When you call, you can spare them the details on the phone (no-one likes a phone salesman) and just say "Hey, we're so and so, did you check our e-mail? If not, all the details are there, we'll call you back in a week or so". And then you keep calling until it locks into place, or falls apart and you move on.


----------



## col (Feb 28, 2014)

That's some good info, thanks a lot! You happen to know any noteworthy bars to contact in Stockholm, Norrköping or Göteborg? I already have a few in mind but more would always be better.

How I've always booked gigs in Finland is leave a message in the answering machine (no promoter answers a call from an unknown caller, and no one reads emails) and they usually get back to me in a day or so.


----------



## Mprinsje (Mar 2, 2014)

The payout for bands in the Netherlands is mostly based on the amount of tickets sold.

Depending on how well know you are, ticket prices are mostly between 5-10 euro's. Of that, about 20% is going to the venue, the rest is split between bands. This is how it has been for all times i have performed (mostly in the west of the country though, could be different in other places).


----------



## col (Mar 2, 2014)

Mprinsje said:


> The payout for bands in the Netherlands is mostly based on the amount of tickets sold.
> 
> Depending on how well know you are, ticket prices are mostly between 5-10 euro's. Of that, about 20% is going to the venue, the rest is split between bands. This is how it has been for all times i have performed (mostly in the west of the country though, could be different in other places).



That's good to know, thanks. Ticket prices for unknown bands in Finland are usually between 3-4 euros.


----------



## Mprinsje (Mar 2, 2014)

col said:


> That's good to know, thanks. Ticket prices for unknown bands in Finland are usually between 3-4 euros.



It depends, It's mostly about 5 euro's, but sometimes the prices are a little higher if the bands playing are international and/or more well known.


----------



## marshallH (Mar 2, 2014)

Well, I personally haven't since I'm only 16, but my dad went to Germany twice and to England. Both times in Germany several venues contacted him and offered them a place to stay for the night in return for playing a show. Basically like 8 bars said "hey your style of music is popular here come make us money". Have you been invited anywhere or are you planning on asking first? You don't need to be popular, just put up a poster saying something like "super brutal band from x country on world tour looking to play at YOUR local hot spots!" Some people may laugh, but foreigners always attract attention, and if you're a good band and you're genre is liked in the area, it should be fine. My dad didn't get paid by the way, just got free drinks. If want to get paid you should specify, some places just assume bands don't even want cash.

Basically, talk yourself up! There's nothing wrong with it and most of the time people will come just because you're different and sound like some mystical band that will make them think "why did it take me so long to find these guys?" And even if it doesn't, they still came to the show and since you're not from the area they won't even bother to talk sh*t about you.


----------

