# The neg. rep issue...



## Randy

I noticed a lot of posts popping up about people getting negative reps. While I'm in complete agreement that rep. isn't something to be taken seriously, and definitely not something that needs to be used to derail or bump threads at random, it's getting to the point of trolling. Going into people's profiles and posting shit like "Wolverine is a fagget" and doing it wholesale across the whole board is just about as disruptive as posting it in the body of a thread.

The purpose of starting a thread to bring this up is that every other time this has been brought up, it was admittedly in places where the discussion wasn't appropriate. Well, this seems like the section to bring it up. We have policies against neg rep abuse: 



> As of now any member I find abusing rep will receive an infraction on the first offence and a PERMA BAN on the second offence. This applies to everyone.


http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/announcements.html

...as such, I was hoping we could get some answers as to whether or not this is being addressed. Because I thought it was over after yesterday, but I'm seeing people popping up today saying they got hit too. Again, I could give a shit about having points detracted... doesn't bother me, but leaving totally "drive by trolling" rep in everybody's profile has become a distraction.


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## jymellis

they didnt get me yet lol. i havent been neg repped since i said i thought illegal aliens deserve to be in america as much as the next guy lol.


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## MaxOfMetal

I think the same rule against neg rep abuse should be issued against those who complain about it. 

I'm just tired of people complaining about it publicly. If you get a neg, talk to a mod. Bitching about it in the open is both useless and annoying.


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## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think the same rule against neg rep abuse should be issued against those who complain about it.



There is. If you bump a thread for complaining about neg. rep, you get either a warning or a ban. That's why this is in the support section.

EDIT: And incase anybody missed it, the bulk of the rep. stemmed from this thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...05-a-quote-that-everyone-needs-to-read-3.html

Comments like "Go nuts on my nuts" "*middle finger" "dumbass" "suck my bag" "fuck you" "on the dink" "fuckhead" etc. would be considered trolling anywhere else on this site.


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## Thrashmanzac

^ this.


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## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> There is. If you bump a thread for complaining about neg. rep, you get either a warning or a ban. That's why this is in the support section.



I'm not even talking about bumping a thread, I'm talking about rep complaints all together.


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## Randy

Read my previous comment. That kinda shit talking has no place here.


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## eaeolian

The perp in that thread is enjoying his week off. I agree with most of what you say here, with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.


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## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Read my previous comment. That kinda shit talking has no place here.



The person who gets the hateful comments has every right to talk to a mod to get them taken care of, via deleting the childish/hateful "shit talking", and to warn/ban those who left them. 

Like I said, complaining in the thread, or any thread for that matter, is utterly pointless. If anything it shows that those who left those silly comments via rep have "won" in inciting the person to talk about it.

I've had several reps like that in the past, and the mod team has always been there to help me out. Whether it's by deleting things like you mentioned (the "shit talking"), or simply having a nice little talking to, to the person who left them.


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## Randy

eaeolian said:


> The perp in that thread is enjoying his week off. I agree with most of what you say here, with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.



Much appreeshed for the heads up, Mike. Thanks  

And I agree... we'd probably be a lot better off without it.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

To be honest I think that if people and mods don't care about rep to such an extent then it should be done away with. What's the point of it in the first place if no one really pays it any attention? My impression was that it gave you somewhat of an indication on the forumite and if this can't hold true, assuming it ever really did in a pure sense, then why even have it around? All it does is create drama and issues and isn't that what mods are supposed to lessen?


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## jymellis

why are a bunch of people with lots of little green bars and thousands of posts bitching about this again? lol.i love this place


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## DrakkarTyrannis

jymellis said:


> why are a bunch of people with lots of little green bars and thousands of posts bitching about this again? lol.i love this place



Because it's not the neg rep that's the issue, it's the retard bombing everyone. Personally I don't give two shits but I don't see why morons feel the need to neg-bomb everyone in an attempt to troll. I've never complained about negrep and quite often any negrep I get is because of something I said that I knew would bring about that reaction..don't really care..BUT I earned the neg rep. It wasn't just some moron trying to stir the hornet's nest. Trolling is trolling and that's a form of it and should be taken just as seriously as any other trolling attempt. Neg reps happen, but trolling should be stopped regardless of where it is.


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## jymellis

i was being completely sarcastic maing except for loving this place


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## DrakkarTyrannis

jymellis said:


> i was being completely sarcastic maing except for loving this place



Yeah well..your....face...is...sarcastic...


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## jymellis

that it is bro, that it is lol


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## eaeolian

If you want a week off, be an idiot with the rep system. If you'd like a couple of days off, whine about it in a thread. Considering the amount of rep whining going on, it may be quiet around here for a while with everyone being banned.


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## MaxOfMetal

eaeolian said:


> If you want a week off, be an idiot with the rep system. If you'd like a couple of days off, whine about it in a thread. Considering the amount of rep whining going on, it may be quiet around here for a while with everyone being banned.


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## JJ Rodriguez

I think most of the rep whining is just fishing for people to give you counter rep  I mean, I've commented in a thread about rep left, but it usually had to do with the situation, ie someone leaves a comment, and I address it if it's relevant to the thread.


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## JPhoenix19

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> To be honest I think that if people and mods don't care about rep to such an extent then it should be done away with. What's the point of it in the first place if no one really pays it any attention? My impression was that it gave you somewhat of an indication on the forumite and if this can't hold true, assuming it ever really did in a pure sense, then why even have it around? All it does is create drama and issues and isn't that what mods are supposed to lessen?



Hmm. Seems to me that, despite it being abused, it still serves its purpose.  I think the bigger question is whether or not it's worth the effort it takes to police it. Though it's not a perfect system, I like it.


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## djpharoah

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you get a random neg, talk to a mod. Bitching about it in the open is both useless and annoying.


+1000



eaeolian said:


> The perp in that thread is enjoying his week off. I agree with most of what you say here, with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.


 - extremely annoying with regards to people sending PMs about stupid stuff especially when like 75% of the time they deserved it.



JJ Rodriguez said:


> I think most of the rep whining is just fishing for people to give you counter rep


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## Stealthdjentstic

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I think most of the rep whining is just fishing for people to give you counter rep  I mean, I've commented in a thread about rep left, but it usually had to do with the situation, ie someone leaves a comment, and I address it if it's relevant to the thread.



Quoted for truth.


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## Cheesebuiscut

eaeolian said:


> with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.



+1


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## Chickenhawk

eaeolian said:


> with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.


+100000000

If you ran for president, most on 777 would vote for you just because you said that.


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## Hollowway

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I think most of the rep whining is just fishing for people to give you counter rep


Yeah, mea culpa, that's my bad on that one. I posted something about a neg rep I got just because I thought it was a really weird one, and then someone gave me counter rep (which, tbh, I'd never heard of until I got it), and then I felt like a total loser. (And then Infinitycomplex countered the counter rep, and I thought that was brilliant. I'm going to use that one.) The weird thing about neg rep, to me, is that sometimes I post something critical of someone, and fully expect to get some, and get nothing. Othertimes I get neg rep for God knows what reason. Just a totally inert post. So unfortunately, the rep system works only if the people giving it are sane and logical, and, well.... ($10 says I get a neg on this one, because I'm not sure what the Hell my point is, anyway)


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## SnowfaLL

The retarded part is people who counter-neg rep. If you neg rep someone and they DESERVED IT, ie made a post being a total jackass, then that should be it, yet some people take it so personally they will go hunt you down and neg rep you back, even if you did nothing other than giving them what they deserve.

I had an issue about 2 months ago with it, where some jackass was talking shit about me in some MG.org thread, I wasnt even posting in the thread/topic, he just brought up my name to be a jerk.. so I neg repped him because well clearly if someone is bashing you when you are not even in the topic/thread in the first place, I think thats warranted enough for a neg rep?? Anyways, the guy not only neg repped me on MG, he came here and neg repped me too! What a complete dick. I talked to Leon and he swiftly took care of it though, thankfully. Unfortunately, since the guy is friends with some other mods, No other actions can be taken.. but I think the guy deserves a ban. Hes a fucking douche not only to me, but many people on this forum, but being friends with a mod gives you special privileges obviously.

I also think there should be a rule with mods, how they can not use the rep system either.. because 2-3 years ago I had an issue with a certain mod who was purposely abusing the rep system against me, and removing any neg rep I would leave for him (which he deserved). It was really lame. =/ I think hes gone now, but still very lame, Mods shouldnt be able to do that. If you think about it, if you are a mod, you can have a perfectly spotless rep record as long as you delete it before any other mods see you do it. Thats not right.


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## MFB

NickCormier said:


> I had an issue about 2 months ago with it, where some jackass was talking shit about me in some MG.org thread, I wasnt even posting in the thread/topic, he just brought up my name to be a jerk.. so I neg repped him because well clearly if someone is bashing you when you are not even in the topic/thread in the first place, I think thats warranted enough for a neg rep?? Anyways, the guy not only neg repped me on MG, he came here and neg repped me too! What a complete dick. I talked to Leon and he swiftly took care of it though, thankfully. Unfortunately, since the guy is friends with some other mods, No other actions can be taken.. but I think the guy deserves a ban. Hes a fucking douche not only to me, but many people on this forum, but being friends with a mod gives you special privileges obviously.



It's still JUST rep man, if it gets removed then no one is gonna see it anymore and it should be no big deal. A ban...over ONE neg rep? Be reasonable.


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## eaeolian

Nick, you are *way* too bent over the rep system. None of the mods actually give a shit.


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## JohnIce

I think the rep system serves a purpose for sure, as I can't think of anyone on here who has _more _rep than they deserve. Usually the person with an impressive rep bar is also pretty mature, knowledgeable and generally nice. When I get advice from someone with a lot of rep I assume there's at least some merit behind it, because clearly a lot of people has agreed with and/or thanked this person many times before.

Likewise, if some grasshopper comes in and says something completely balls, it feels like you're doing a favour to the community when giving them a neg, so that other people can see that this dude shouldn't be taken too seriously. I've also seen some people with a red rep bar coming around and start making an effort to be more constructive and well-spoken in their posts, which is a great thing in itself!

I think all this was the original intention for the rep system, and in that case I think it works. But that's just my opinion


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## JJ Rodriguez

I got mine from making dick, fart, and necropedophilia jokes. If you take my advice you're probably even dumber than I am


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## ShadyDavey

I'll hold my hands up and say that I've deserved any that I've received for various reasons....I do indeed say some remarkably stupid things on occassion. 



JohnIce said:


> I think the rep system serves a purpose for sure, as I can't think of anyone on here who has _more _rep than they deserve. Usually the person with an impressive rep bar is also pretty mature, knowledgeable and generally nice. When I get advice from someone with a lot of rep I assume there's at least some merit behind it, because clearly a lot of people has agreed with and/or thanked this person many times before.
> 
> Likewise, if some grasshopper comes in and says something completely balls, it feels like you're doing a favour to the community when giving them a neg, so that other people can see that this dude shouldn't be taken too seriously. I've also seen some people with a red rep bar coming around and start making an effort to be more constructive and well-spoken in their posts, which is a great thing in itself!
> 
> I think all this was the original intention for the rep system, and in that case I think it works. But that's just my opinion



When it's working as intended, I agree. I was about to make the point that many forums do without a reputation system but SS.org is a large place - there are a lot of members passing through every day and in lieu of actually knowing every single person and their foibles it's a passable alternative.

That said, I don't think removing it altogether would be an entirely bad idea if only to avoid the possible shortfalls.


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## M3CHK1LLA

im still kinda new here. i joined to learn more plus buy sell & trade guitars. i got hit by the jerk this thread is about.

i thought that your rep was how others determine weather to trust or trade with you.


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## JJ Rodriguez

No, that's your iTrader rating (which is currently hidden due to a botched "update" by our admin). Rep is basically how useful someone is, or in my case, how many dick/fart/necropedophile jokes you can make.


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## MaxOfMetal

JJ Rodriguez said:


> No, that's your iTrader rating (which is currently hidden due to a botched "update" by our admin). Rep is basically how useful someone is, or in my case, how many dick/fart/necropedophile jokes you can make.



It's not really "hidden" it still can be found under the "Feedback" tab in everyone's profile.


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## JJ Rodriguez

Yeah, but it's really handy when it's right under someone's name in their FS ad. I just meant hidden from plain sight like it used to be.


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## Malacoda

I also am in favor of eliminating the rep system. I'd just like to use as an example the other forum I frequent, Metal-Archives.com. The Archives allow no avatars, no custom titles, no personal information, and no reputation. The only things they have are post-counts and a few custom titles for long-term, well-established users. About 1/5 of all threads are locked on the forum, and the mods are both strict and merciless. I'm not saying we have to go that far. But troublemakers on the Archives meet swift, permanent ends, and everyone knows what is right and what is taboo with that system. Maybe if we adopt just one element - the lack of rep - it will improve the general atmosphere and knowledge of SS.org. Just my thoughts.


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## MaxOfMetal

Honestly, I think everyone takes rep way too seriously. My self included at times.

If it was abolished tomorrow, I doubt there would be any noticeable difference at all in the overall feel and scope of this forum. There will still be endless noobs posting dozens of threads in the wrong section, people getting flamed, epic necro bumps, and waves of trolls. I don't see how getting rid of rep would make the REAL issues that cause trouble on this forum from going away.

The only thing I see resulting immediately would be less of a headache for the mods in dealing with the system.


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## MJS

Why not just disable negative rep? I've been on forums that only had +rep. That way, you can still use the rep system for the right reasons, while getting rid of the -rep drama.

That pretty much kills most of the noise, just like disabling it altogether does. 

Anonymous -rep is basically just for cheap shots. If there's an actual real life problem with a post, that's what the report button is for. 

Seems like a good compromise. Users can still have a rep system, while mods get a break from most of the bullshit that comes with having it enabled. 


Or you could just default all of us to all red like Metal Ken to defeat the evil powers of -rep.


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## Toshiro

There used to be a "Disable Rep" option, dunno when that was 86'd.

Just ignore it, if you don't care about it anyway.


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## HighGain510

Toshiro said:


> There used to be a "Disable Rep" option, dunno when that was 86'd.
> 
> Just ignore it, if you don't care about it anyway.



It was never "86'd", it was always (and is still) available to contributing members.


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## Edroz

HighGain510 said:


> It was never "86'd", it was always (and is still) available to contributing members.



it was "86'd" to non contributing members apparently (since i'm one of them ), since i can't find a way to disable it.

i could give two shits about the rep system personally . if i could turn if off right now, i would .


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## djpharoah

I don't have the option either


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## techjsteele

I have the option to disable it. Most likely an oversight when the forum software was upgraded.


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## CatPancakes

Half the time people make threads bitching about getting negative JUST to get positive rep. Fuck 'em. PM a mod, dont start a pity party.


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## Toshiro

HighGain510 said:


> It was never "86'd", it was always (and is still) available to contributing members.



Well, I'm a contributing member, and I don't have it. I have a "hide" option, which isn't the same as the old "disable".


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## DDDorian

Y'know, I only just noticed that my contributing status was gone. No wonder I couldn't find the toggle when someone asked for it. Mesh, I'm guessing yours is gone too. Weird.

As for rep, I do find it kinda funny that the people who say they don't care about rep are usually the ones whining about it when someone starts throwing it around


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## Randy

I noticed that too, now that you mention it. 

When I first started posting here, I used to frequent a few other boards that didn't necessarily have a reputation system but they relied on "thanks" per thread, and it was just common courtesy to "thank" a thread if you got some use out of it. When I arrived at ss.org, I made a few threads and I had people saying "wow, cool band. thanks a lot" but people weren't using the "thanks" button, so I mentioned asking people to thank the thread if they got anything out of it. I COMPLETELY got dogpiled by two members in particular and the entire thread got derailed because I was accused of farming for rep. because I asked, so I apologized and we moved on. Not even a week later, both member made threads of their own and bitched on several occasions about people not thanking the threads, etc. etc. Hypocritical much?

After digesting it a few days, I think reputation plays a relevant role in the way the forum works. Even the negs really. A lot of times I'll see somebody put up a really trolly post and when I check their profile, they have negs from all over the place because they're a serial offender. That usually helps weed out who to report for trolling, for myself anyway.

As for positive rep, I try to make it a habit of thanking or +repping someone if they post something that's either helpful, took a lot of effort, or is something I personally appreciated. For myself, I take the positive (and negative) reputation that I get as an indicator of things I should or shouldn't be posting. In the same vein, if I see somebody giving me positive rep on a few different things overtime, it usually means we have some paralleled interests so I'll friend request them and we'll talk back and forth some.

It really only becomes an issue when it's abused, ie. being used to anonymously troll people instead of impartially critiquing. Equally disruptive (as has been pointed out) is when people complain about rep in a thread instead of PMing a mod, reporting it or just sucking it up because they had it coming (sometimes).


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## BigPhi84

Randy said:


> After digesting it a few days, I think reputation plays a relevant role in the way the forum works. Even the negs really. A lot of times I'll see somebody put up a really trolly post and when I check their profile, they have negs from all over the place because they're a serial offender. That usually helps weed out who to report for trolling, for myself anyway.




Yeah. Not to single out anyone, but when I first joined this site, Dave ('Scar Symmetry' on this forum) was a complete douche. After all the days-long bans and tons of negative rep, he finally changed his ways, and now he's one of my favorite posters on this site (_along with ShadyDavey.... what's up with British Dave's being so cool?  Why can't American Daves be as cool... I'm looking at you, Renegade!  LOL. j/k, fellow Georgian._) I make it a point to give Dave positive rep any time he creates an awesome thread showcasing a band that I've never heard of. That dude finds some talented but obscure bands!

Sincerely,
Phi


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## darren

eaeolian said:


> I agree with most of what you say here, with the caveat that I'd like to disable the freakin' thing completely.





In my view, the rep system only serves a valuable purpose when you have 1) a user base with at least enough maturity to respect the system and the purpose it serves; and 2) users who have a basic level of respect each other. 

Since we seem to have neither of these (for the most part), i find the rep system to be largely pointless. Add to the fact that signing rep is against the "rules" (i sign mine anyway, since i think anonymous rep is cowardly and pointless) and the whole rep system just leaves me with a big "Why?"

Since few people seem to use it for the purpose it was intended for, i'd be in favour of just shutting it off.


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## MFB

Gee Darren, way to rub your ability to turn off rep in all our faces! JERK!


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## MJS

BigPhi84 said:


> Yeah. Not to single out anyone, but when I first joined this site, Dave ('Scar Symmetry' on this forum) was a complete douche. After all the days-long bans and tons of negative rep, he finally changed his ways, and now he's one of my favorite posters on this site



I just looked at his profile & one of his recent +reps is from me... and also noticed that he's currently banned.


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## BigPhi84

Hmmmm... I wonder why he's banned. I don't recall him being on the "Ban List" thread.


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## CrushingAnvil

I've started embracing the neg rep I receive...

I got some before for pretty much stating a fact that a lot of people have agreed on before.


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## CrushingAnvil

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I got mine from making dick, fart, and necropedophilia jokes. If you take my advice you're probably even dumber than I am



But fart jokes are the BEST!!!


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## DevinShidaker

The rep system needs to be done away with. It stopped being useful years ago. It was supposed to help you how helpful and knowledgeable a person is, but it hasn't served that purpose in a long time. If you're funny or you post a lot of guitar pictures, or just post a lot in general, you'll have a shitload of rep. I mean in four years, I have never received any negative rep, do I care? nope. Just get rid of it, it stopped serving it's purpose a long time ago.


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## Krankguitarist

Eh, it's a vestigal system. Useless.

That said...keep it or sack it, I don't care.


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## JoshuaLogan

Definitely get rid of it. It's completely pointless. All the 16 year old kids on here give neg rep if you say ANYTHING at all that they don't like. No other forums I post on have a rep system...


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## Dan

Wouldn't it just be easier to change the Rep bar to a general 'Post' Bar.

I mean the vast majority of people who post frequently on here (with the exception of JJ ) are level headed individuals who dont act like an ass or an internet tough guy. Not that im saying you are an ass JJ, i love your fart jokes... you just arn't normal thats all 

Its much easier to tell who is going to have a sane conversation with you via their posting habbits i have found. I know that doesnt work for everyone; But those who post often usually post the most interesting topics for discussion.


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## blister7321

i personally think the rep thing should be for mods and contributors only
i dont care if you -rep me i kinda get annoyed seeing rep in my panel 
i think its mesages


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## YellowMustard

Why do you guys give a shit about what some random twat thinks of you or something you say in a post on an internet forum, regardless of how condescending, ignorant, or hateful it might be?? Its just words, remove your tampon and return to having a pair.

Go play your guitars.

By the way, if anyone is bored and doesnt have anyone to hate on...feel free to hate on me and neg rep me! I wont even see it though, i'll be too busy concerning myself with more interesting things, like trying to find more efficient ways of dismembering and hiding the corpses i've collected over the years.


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## Rick

User CP>User Options>Show Your Reputation Level

If the neg rep issue bothers you that much, turn your rep off.


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## Randy

Rick is wise.


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## MFB

Rick said:


> User CP>User Options>Show Your Reputation Level
> 
> If the neg rep issue bothers you that much, turn your rep off.



Rick, there was mentioned a couple posts back that most of us have lost the ability to turn it off unless you were an MVP. I'm pretty sure you guys are the only ones who can turn it off, even mods are SOL


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## Daemoniac

^ I can turn mine off


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## DDDorian

MFB said:


> Rick, there was mentioned a couple posts back that most of us have lost the ability to turn it off unless you were an MVP. I'm pretty sure you guys are the only ones who can turn it off, even mods are SOL



It's tied to contributor status, I think, not MVP status - I don't have contributor status anymore and I'm guessing Mesh doesn't either, which is why we couldn't find the rep toggle when we went looking for it.


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## Rick

MFB said:


> Rick, there was mentioned a couple posts back that most of us have lost the ability to turn it off unless you were an MVP. I'm pretty sure you guys are the only ones who can turn it off, even mods are SOL



Ah, I obviously didn't see that, I apologize. Hope no offense was taken in the context of my post.


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## MFB

Rick said:


> Ah, I obviously didn't see that, I apologize. Hope no offense was taken in the context of my post.



No biggie man, I personally didn't take offense and I hope no one would since it was a minor mistake 



DDDorian said:


> It's tied to contributor status, I think, not MVP status - I don't have contributor status anymore and I'm guessing Mesh doesn't either, which is why we couldn't find the rep toggle when we went looking for it.



Ah, I didn't know you guys had contributor statuses before, I only saw Mod. and thought that was it


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## Rick




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## TreWatson

i have no issues with the rep syste because it means nothing to the forum. :/

but i was wondering, how do you even get contributor status? 

forgive my lkack of knowledge.


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## Customisbetter

^You gotta pay up

But don't do it, Alex doesn't deserve jack shit.


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## GTR0B

Customisbetter said:


> ^You gotta pay up
> 
> But don't do it, Alex doesn't deserve jack shit.



So do all the proceeding's go to Alex? Now I know why I haven't done it.

Tried a year ago, and my PayPal was screwed so it didn't work.

Also, Scar isn't banned...he's posting right now. I didn't know it was general knowledge that Dave got banned alot.....you guys have keen eyes!


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## Scar Symmetry

BigPhi84 said:


> Yeah. Not to single out anyone, but when I first joined this site, Dave ('Scar Symmetry' on this forum) was a complete douche. After all the days-long bans and tons of negative rep, he finally changed his ways, and now he's one of my favorite posters on this site (_along with ShadyDavey.... what's up with British Dave's being so cool?  Why can't American Daves be as cool... I'm looking at you, Renegade!  LOL. j/k, fellow Georgian._) I make it a point to give Dave positive rep any time he creates an awesome thread showcasing a band that I've never heard of. That dude finds some talented but obscure bands!
> 
> Sincerely,
> Phi



It's true man, with hindsight now, even I think I was being a tool


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## drmosh

Scar Symmetry said:


> It's true man, with hindsight now, even I think I was being a tool



you still are, you DICK!!!!111


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## JJ Rodriguez

ESPlayer said:


> So do all the proceeding's go to Alex? Now I know why I haven't done it.
> 
> Tried a year ago, and my PayPal was screwed so it didn't work.
> 
> Also, Scar isn't banned...he's posting right now. I didn't know it was general knowledge that Dave got banned alot.....you guys have keen eyes!



Yeah, I wouldn't contribute these days either, but when Chris was running the show I was happy to dish out the cash.


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## Rick

^


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