# Jackson Warrior vs Ibanez Xiphos vs BC Rich Stealth



## sevenstringj (Jan 7, 2009)

Which came first? And do the other companies have to pay some sort of license to the original designers?

I've only played the Ibanez Xiphos... and hated it. God only knows why companies make neck-diving guitars. (But that's another thread. ) Anyone play all three or at least two? How do they compare? Do they all neck-dive? I imagine if you're a Jackson fan, you'd prefer the Warrior, and if you're an Ibanez fan you'd prefer the Xiphos, etc.


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## ZeroSignal (Jan 7, 2009)

There was a thread about this before. I think the consensus is that Ibanez made an X shaped guitar first called the X-Star or something, then the Jackson warrior, then BC Rich with the Stealth (although it should be noted that only until recently it was a custom shop only), then Ibanez made the Xiphos.

I don't think anyone has to pay royalties on the shape of a guitar. Or else FMIC would be making _even more_ money...


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## sevenstringj (Jan 7, 2009)

I searched warrior xiphos and didn't see such a thread.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't know which one came first between the Stealth and the Warrior. But I feel that its one of the most comfortable shapes out of all the more extreme guitar shapes. Hell, for me its almost as comfortable as a strat shape since I play in classical position a lot.


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## silentrage (Jan 7, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> Which came first? And do the other companies have to pay some sort of license to the original designers?
> 
> I've only played the Ibanez Xiphos... and hated it. God only knows why companies make neck-diving guitars. (But that's another thread. ) Anyone play all three or at least two? How do they compare? Do they all neck-dive? I imagine if you're a Jackson fan, you'd prefer the Warrior, and if you're an Ibanez fan you'd prefer the Xiphos, etc.



I think it's only meant to be played when standing or in a classical position,
it looks almost TOO comfortable in a classical position, the lower horn sits right on your left thigh.


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## C-PIG (Jan 8, 2009)

stealth was first , then warrior , the xiphos


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## DeathShred1 (Jan 8, 2009)

I know thw Warrior came out in the 80's I dont know about the other ones.


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## elrrek (Jan 8, 2009)

I tried a quick search and cannot confirm anything but I expect that the Charvel Star guitar predates the Warrior and the Stealth (designed by Rick Derringer in 1983) and most certainly predates the Xiphos.

As for Ibanez X-Star, again I don't know anything but I expect the Charvel came first.

This is a 1982 Charvel Star:


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## Scali (Jan 8, 2009)

Well, Gibson started it all in 1958, with the Explorer and V models.
That Charvel Star is basically just an Explorer model with an extra V-shaped cut in the back. The other models seem to have gone on from there by adding an extra point at the top.
As far as I know, the Ibanez X-series also dates from around 1982-1983.


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## eaeolian (Jan 8, 2009)

Scali said:


> Well, Gibson started it all in 1958, with the Explorer and V models.
> That Charvel Star is basically just an Explorer model with an extra V-shaped cut in the back. The other models seem to have gone on from there by adding an extra point at the top.
> As far as I know, the Ibanez X-series also dates from around 1982-1983.



The Charvel Star comes directly from this guitar:





I didn't see any X-Series "Star" shapes until at least '83, and I saw plenty of Charvel Stars before that.


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## Elysian (Jan 8, 2009)

ZeroSignal said:


> There was a thread about this before. I think the consensus is that Ibanez made an X shaped guitar first called the X-Star or something, then the Jackson warrior, then BC Rich with the Stealth (although it should be noted that only until recently it was a custom shop only), then Ibanez made the Xiphos.
> 
> I don't think anyone has to pay royalties on the shape of a guitar. Or else FMIC would be making _even more_ money...



the stealth was a production guitar back in the day. stealth came out in 83, and imo is one of the better looking X shapes.


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## elrrek (Jan 8, 2009)

eaeolian said:


> The Charvel Star comes directly from this guitar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that I did not know! That's fantastic.

Kramer also did an X shaped guitar so maybe they beat Charvel to it?


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## Scali (Jan 8, 2009)

It's not a production model. It's an Explorer-clone that Eddie van Halen used a chainsaw on.


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## assfreely (Jan 8, 2009)

The Gibson Moderne

This is patent for the Gibson Moderne, circa 1958. Not as pretty but the idea was there...


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## DrewsifStalin (Jan 8, 2009)

The Ibanez Axstar. the first of the x bodies, then you have the




Bc rich stealth, which really defined how the shape would end up, then the




Jackson warrior which is (in my opinion) a step down from the




Ibanez Xiphos. the most recent and (in my opinion) best looking model.

Hope this helps you guys.


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## eaeolian (Jan 8, 2009)

elrrek said:


> Now that I did not know! That's fantastic.
> 
> Kramer also did an X shaped guitar so maybe they beat Charvel to it?



Nope. The Kramer star-shapes were a direct Charvel ripoff.


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## eaeolian (Jan 8, 2009)

DrewsifStalin said:


> The Ibanez Axstar. the first of the x bodies, then you have the
> Hope this helps you guys.



Uh, yeah, except for the fact that I don't think they appeared until 1985, and the Stealth showed up in 1983...


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## Xaios (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree with DrewsifStalin, I like the Xiphos shape the most, the stealth and warrior just don't have the same visual body balance as the Xiphos.


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## eaeolian (Jan 8, 2009)

Xaios said:


> I agree with DrewsifStalin, I like the Xiphos shape the most, the stealth and warrior just don't have the same visual body balance as the Xiphos.



I actually agree - I think it balances better visually than the "new" Warrior.

However, I liked the "old" one better than them all:






It just ain't right without the slanted pickups and fretboard end.


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## noodles (Jan 8, 2009)

While I wouldn't want the slanted bridge pickup, that shape is 110&#37; more awesome than the "new" Warrior.


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## jacksonplayer (Jan 8, 2009)

Don't forget the Dean ML, which came out in the late '70s, though that's really more of a modified Explorer than a true "X" shape with two upper horns.

Also, the Carvin V-220 was introduced in 1984. That's the first true "X" guitar that I remember, though I guess the Stealth came out slightly before that.


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 8, 2009)

eaeolian said:


> I actually agree - I think it balances better visually than the "new" Warrior.
> 
> However, I liked the "old" one better than them all:
> 
> ...



^^ now that looks pretty slick, ditch the singles for HBs in the bridge though and we're in business, lol.


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## jacksonplayer (Jan 8, 2009)

IIRC, the Warrior was originally a design exercise for the NAMM show or such back around 1990. The idea was to use the iconic Jackson headstock shape on all four of the "wings", which you can see if you look at it closely. Its status as a design study is why they used the impractical pickup setup on the original version--it was done purely for looks. Apparently it got enough buzz that they decided to put it into production, silly pickups and all. The original version also has a 24.75" scale, which is why I'm always a little tempted everytime one shows up on eBay.


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## 7deadlysins666 (Jan 8, 2009)

The stealth was made by Rick Derringer, believe it or not, it was made as an explorer spin off (line it up with an explorer, the lines will match perfectly) and he first offered it to Gibson to make....they of course said no. Not sure if the Stealth or Warrior came first, im really thinking Stealth. Either way Stealth Wins.


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## eaeolian (Jan 8, 2009)

7deadlysins666 said:


> The stealth was made by Rick Derringer, believe it or not, it was made as an explorer spin off (line it up with an explorer, the lines will match perfectly) and he first offered it to Gibson to make....they of course said no. Not sure if the Stealth or Warrior came first, im really thinking Stealth. Either way Stealth Wins.



The Stealth was definitely first. I forgot how early the Carvin V220 showed up - I was thinking '86.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jan 8, 2009)

goddamn I love X shapes XD

My favorite is the stealth, then the old warrior, then the Xiphos, then the new warrior... but they all look great IMO.


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## sevenstringj (Jan 8, 2009)

Wow, you guys are on top of shit! Thanks.


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## Xk6m6m5X (Jan 9, 2009)

i like the stealths that had that pointy strat kinda headstock...and id likethe xiphos more if they angled the headstock up..kinda like the jackson but kept the ibanez shape...idk im weird


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## Esp Griffyn (Jan 9, 2009)

The Xiphos is the best of the lot, and that slanty Warrior is awesome. Not really a fan of the BC Rich Stealth I must say.


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## elrrek (Jan 9, 2009)

Okay, let's get some dates down here then:

Dean ML 1977
Charvel Star 19??
BC Rich Stealth 1983
Carvin V-220 1984
Ibanez Axstar 1985
Jackson Warrior 19??
Ibanez Xiphos 2008


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## ZeroSignal (Jan 9, 2009)

elrrek said:


> Okay, let's get some dates down here then:
> 
> Dean ML 1977
> Charvel Star 19??
> ...



Xiphos was 2007.


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## NemesisTheory (Jan 10, 2009)

I believe the Warrior was first released in 1990. A brief history here: TheShredZone.com - The Birth of the Jackson Warrior -- Welcome To The Next Generation

I currently own USA versions of the Stealth and Warrior, and the import Xiphos. The original Stealths, most of which were circa 1984, are unsurpassed in my opinion. Their balance was perfect. BC Rich knew where to put the strap buttons! With all the electronics and wood options available, you had multitudes of sound possibilities. I've found that Warriors vary a bit more in balance but most hang perfect. The Xiphos had major neck dive with the way they put the strap buttons in the factory. They also seem to have the weakest sound, but they are imports and not handmade. With some mods, they could probably be made to stand next to a USA Select Warrior, and for 1/3 the price. The finishes on them are impressive too. I'm interested in how the new import Chuck Schuldiner Stealths compare to a Xiphos. 

Scott


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## Black_Gnosis (Jan 10, 2009)

Well the stealth came first before the warrior and the xiphos but the xiphs kicks both of their asses! the stealth sucks! and the warrior is good but wayyyyyyy over priced for what you are getting! depends if you want the jsr30 model lol (DO NOT RECOMMEND!) lol


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## ZeroSignal (Jan 10, 2009)

Black_Gnosis said:


> Well the stealth came first before the warrior and the xiphos but the xiphs kicks both of their asses! the stealth sucks! and the warrior is good but wayyyyyyy over priced for what you are getting! depends if you want the jsr30 model lol (DO NOT RECOMMEND!) lol



Harmony Central much? 

Care to tell us why the Stealth sucks?


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## wilkinsi (Feb 16, 2009)

I own two WR1's and they don't suck. The fact I had to work myself into the ground to afford them does


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## Gordan (Jan 20, 2010)

Please tell me how you balance the weight of this guitar when playing standing ? Because those star-shaped guitars tend to pull the head down...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 20, 2010)

Relocate the strap pins. If you google whichever guitar you have, I'm sure you'll find people who have moved them and where they moved them to. I relocated the strap pin on my new KxK and it relieved like 90% of the neck dive issues, enough so I can actually let go of the guitar and not have it dive. You can feel that it still wants to, but there's enough friction to keep it up.


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## Gordan (Jan 20, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Relocate the strap pins. If you google whichever guitar you have, I'm sure you'll find people who have moved them and where they moved them to. I relocated the strap pin on my new KxK and it relieved like 90% of the neck dive issues, enough so I can actually let go of the guitar and not have it dive. You can feel that it still wants to, but there's enough friction to keep it up.


 
I didn`t find any useable informations about avoiding the head diving for those star-shaped guitars on google. Relocating the strap pin on beginning of the neck would solve the problem but it is impossible/anoying because the guitar is neck-through, i need to find other solution...


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## avenger (Jan 20, 2010)

I hate the neck dive on my Xiphos but I prefer its shape over the others. The stealth kind alooks like someone spit on the ground and used the splat as the shape imo. 

But really the neck dive is stupid I mean the guitar almost goes vertical with the neck facing down... Why cant they add weight to one of the back horns or something to blaance it out abit ><


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## Toshiro (Jan 20, 2010)

Gordan said:


> Please tell me how you balance the weight of this guitar when playing standing ? Because those star-shaped guitars tend to pull the head down...



Move the strap pin to the inside of the upper horn.

Pinning the "V" part on your leg is the best option though.





I far prefer shapes like this for standing, vs a strat shape.

And congrats on the year old bump.


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## t3sser4ct (Jan 20, 2010)

I have a Warrior 6-string and a Xiphos 7, and I prefer the feel of the Warrior. (I really wanted a 7-string warrior, but the Xiphos was cheaper than a Jackson custom.) I think the Warrior is the best guitar I've ever tried in terms of playability. I still need to relocate the neck pin on my Xiphos, so maybe that will make a difference, but I still want that custom Warrior 7 eventually.


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## JPMDan (Jan 20, 2010)

There's a way to fix neck diving, move the strap pin locations. I think the upper horn on the inside is one location but forgot the other location. I've heard nothing but great things about the xiphos. Was it the guitar in general or just the neck diving that you didn't like.


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## t3sser4ct (Jan 20, 2010)

JPMDan said:


> There's a way to fix neck diving, move the strap pin locations. I think the upper horn on the inside is one location but forgot the other location. I've heard nothing but great things about the xiphos. Was it the guitar in general or just the neck diving that you didn't like.


You can also put a counterweight in the body, but moving the strap is the easiest way to correct the problem. On the Warrior, the pin is under the upper horn, just like you described, and it's usually lighter, so it's perfect.

I don't really dislike the Xiphos, I just vastly prefer the Warrior. The neck dive is probably the biggest issue, but for some reason, I'm just much more comfortable when I play the Warrior; the neck is so fast, and everything feels right about it. It's also much lighter than the Xiphos (alder instead of mahogany), so that makes a difference with tone as well as feel.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 20, 2010)

The BSG neck dove like crazy, but I put the strap pin on the heel on the back of the neck around fret 21 or so. Problem solved. I had my custom for less than 2 days and I already had drilled a hole in it 

When playing high up, my thumb didn't touch the neck heel the way it's designed so the strap and pin don't get in the way at all.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 20, 2010)

NemesisTheory said:


> I believe the Warrior was first released in 1990. A brief history here: TheShredZone.com - The Birth of the Jackson Warrior -- Welcome To The Next GenerationScott



Really? Caffery's using one in this video, and the album came out in '89:



Granted, it's very possible the video wasn't shot until 1990. It's one of the early Warriors though.

EDIT: Great guitar playing, man I love these guys


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## primerib (Jan 21, 2010)

C-PIG said:


> stealth was first , then warrior , the xiphos



this


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## Edroz (Jan 21, 2010)

don't forget about the B.C. Rich Ironbird. introduced in '83, and my personal favorite X shaped guitar.


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## Duraesu (Jan 21, 2010)

2010 Bc Rich Stealth Pro > Jackson WRMG > Ibanez Xiphos


just my two cents =P but i still want a Warrior...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jan 21, 2010)

Why the WRMG? Why not the WR1, which would shit all over both of those?


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## Arminius (Jan 21, 2010)

Edroz said:


> don't forget about the B.C. Rich Ironbird. introduced in '83, and my personal favorite X shaped guitar.




Someone needs to play Maze of Torment on that beast


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## Duraesu (Jan 22, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Why the WRMG? Why not the WR1, which would shit all over both of those?





Good point =P i should aim higher!! what i really need is to get a job eheh


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## Hollowman (Jan 22, 2010)

Edroz said:


> don't forget about the B.C. Rich Ironbird. introduced in '83, and my personal favorite X shaped guitar.



The Ironhbird and the Stealth are my 2 favorites out of the X shapes


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## Paulfocused (Jan 23, 2010)

I prefer the Xiphos, but that's just me. Though the neck-diving is a pain in the ass...


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## JesseTheMachine (Jan 25, 2010)

I really like the Warrior, I think the body shape has more radial "interest" or dynamic I guess. It's just a little bit off-kilter, and call me crazy but I've always liked the look of one.


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## DEM0N (Nov 4, 2012)

Scali said:


> Well, Gibson started it all in 1958, with the Explorer and V models.
> That Charvel Star is basically just an Explorer model with an extra V-shaped cut in the back. The other models seem to have gone on from there by adding an extra point at the top.
> As far as I know, the Ibanez X-series also dates from around 1982-1983.



Fender had strangely shaped guitars coming out at about that same time, and it was actually the Explorer, the Flying V & the Moderne (which didn't get continued), and in 1963 the Firebird too...


(and I'm really, REALLY sorry for bumping an old thread if that's what I'm doing here)


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