# Cubital Tunnel Syndrom!! wtf does that mean?!



## zukobro (Apr 19, 2011)

I've been playing music for 15 years. For ten of those, I've focused specifically on guitar. I decided a long time ago this is all I want to do with my life, and I stand by that very firmly. That being said...

Today I went to a doctor (orthapedic) and a very good one. I've trusted him for years. Very quickly, he realized my symptoms weren't carpal tunnel, as I had suspected. They were instead Cubital Tunnel. 

He very quickly seemed to be emphasizing that cubital tunnel is far more severe than carpal tunnel for a guitarist, especially one focused on technical metal. (I don't do a lot of shredding or anything, but I put a good workout into what I play)

He explained that I will most likely need surgery, as the muscles in my left hand have already started deteriorating. Further more, he couldn't nail down a specific on how likely it is I would be able to recover from this fully and be back to playing full speed. My fear is that I won't be back to full speed, or worse yet, I won't be back at all. Can someone please give me a bit more information on how likely recovery from a Cubital Tunnel surgery with muscle deterioration already initiated (and for a while) is?


----------



## Winspear (Apr 19, 2011)

Very sorry to hear the bad news 

I'm afraid I don't know anything about this to help you, but similar things have crossed my mind several times and I have thought about what I would do (I started to develop some kind of problem last year but sorted it now).

Is it your fretting hand? I'm not sure, but if it does end up bad, perhaps switching to playing left handed could be an option. Sure it would be hell, but I'm sure you could get there in 5 years provided the CTS wasn't such a problem for the picking hand. Sounds like a long time but with a whole life of music ahead of you, it's not so bad. 

Aside from that, there is a whole world of music to explore that would put less stress on your hands. I know the thought of straying away from technical playing (not just for the sake of it) would be a hard one at first, but I'm sure you will find a way to enjoy your life playing guitar even in the worst case scenario.

Best of luck to you, keep us updated


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 19, 2011)

I'll give you the same advice I give others, having been through similar issues (mine was de quervains, thumb RSIs.) Straighten out your posture and joints, it might relieve what would normally be a chronic disorder permitting you keep it up. 

This book is the best 15$ I ever spent, it has helped me a lot with such issues, and is groups of exercises specifically formulated to straighten out your body. 

Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain: Amazon.ca: Pete Egoscue, Roger Gittines: Books

There are also apparently DVDs now. I really cannot stress how much this has helped me, from restoring the arches on my feet, to being able to play thumb styles and pick comfortably again. And it is probably cheaper than surgery. You can always rebuild muscles and such, the body is good at that type stuff, permitting you give it an environment where it can.


----------



## zukobro (Apr 19, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> I'll give you the same advice I give others, having been through similar issues (mine was de quervains, thumb RSIs.) Straighten out your posture and joints, it might relieve what would normally be a chronic disorder permitting you keep it up.
> 
> This book is the best 15$ I ever spent, it has helped me a lot with such issues, and is groups of exercises specifically formulated to straighten out your body.
> 
> ...



The only problem is there's no actual muscle disorder, but a nerve disorder. Therefore, the muscle won't be able to regrow and redevelop until after the nerve has been restored. Otherwise, the nerve will die, and my hand will not be funtional enough to handle guitar. (If I don't get the surgery, a condition of this magnitude will not get better, and this is sadly from multiple sources.)


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 19, 2011)

I wasn't supposed to be able to get better ever either, nor do I trust doctors as a consequence (too many things I've fixed were things they told me I had to live with), but if it has gone that far, unfortunately there is not much you can do otherwise (this can still help afterward however, as even surgery doesn't fix the root problem, something doctors like to ignore and throw pills at). 

Best of luck dude, guess you are stuck with surgery, hopefully they don't play the rearrange your bones/insides game though. That is pretty much one of the few things that prevents correcting the root problem thereafter.


----------



## zukobro (Apr 19, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> I wasn't supposed to be able to get better ever either, nor do I trust doctors as a consequence (too many things I've fixed were things they told me I had to live with), but if it has gone that far, unfortunately there is not much you can do otherwise (this can still help afterward however, as even surgery doesn't fix the root problem, something doctors like to ignore and throw pills at).
> 
> Best of luck dude, guess you are stuck with surgery, hopefully they don't play the rearrange your bones/insides game though. That is pretty much one of the few things that prevents correcting the root problem thereafter.



haha I hear you. This is a family friend, so he is trusted, I assure you. However, your exercises will be VITAL after surgery, as I researched, so thank you!!! I really just want to keep pushing out complex music to match the complex lyrics. Any other input from someone who may have had this syndrome would be greatly appreciate still, however?


----------



## darren (Apr 19, 2011)

Cubital and Radial Tunnel Syndrome: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment


----------



## zukobro (Apr 19, 2011)

darren said:


> Cubital and Radial Tunnel Syndrome: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment



wow, 85% recovery for my group of patients, that's better than I had expected! I mean, a 12 month recovery time sucks, but still, thank you! 


Open thread, so any more input is always welcome, no such thing as too much info on this topic as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## rug (Apr 20, 2011)

I was recently diagnosed with cubital tunnel as well. What was your nerve speed through the elbow? I assume you got an EMG done? I don't have any muscle loss yet, but I'm very sorry to hear that, dude. 

I guess the cut off for cubital tunnel is 48-50 m/sec...and I'm at 47 m/sec. So, slight, but it's present.

Does the doctor have you doing cubital nerve glides or anything? Do you have a brace for when you're asleep? It could be something as simple as you leaning on your elbows at work...which is what I've done for years. Apparently that has some serious consequences. 

My doctor said that if I had to have surgery it would be 18-24 months...so there's definitely a wide range. I can't remember the specifics, but there are 2 different approaches to surgery, and one is more minimal, and supposedly has better results. I tried not to read too much about the surgery options, because I didn't even want to think about the possibility.


----------



## fredw138 (Apr 20, 2011)

I had symptoms of cubital tunnel in my fretting arm a few months back. My pinky and ring finger were just numb all the time. It comes from pressure on the "funny bone" area. 

I found that one of the problems was when I was driving I was resting my left elbow on the windowsill of my car while holding the steering wheel with my right hand. I was also resting my elbow on my desk at work.

So my solution was to consciously change my driving habits, and prop my left arm up at work on a notebook so that i wasn't resting on my elbow. The only thing that sucks is you can't avoid bending your elbow if you play guitar, so it causes the symptoms to flare up a bit when you are playing.


----------



## Blake1970 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sorry to hear about that Zukobro. I had cubital tunnel syndrome in both arms and had to have surgery. It got to the point where I could not play guitar period. To my surprise my arms are fine today! The recovery went faster than expected, probably because after they healed I started exercising. The surgeries were about a year apart and my right arm which is my picking arm was more severe than my left arm. When I had it done I decided to move the unlar nerve to the front which is called unlar nerve transposition. Anyways I just wanted to let you know that you can be fixed up, just do something about it now before your muscles are destroyed.


----------



## zukobro (Apr 20, 2011)

rug said:


> I was recently diagnosed with cubital tunnel as well. What was your nerve speed through the elbow? I assume you got an EMG done? I don't have any muscle loss yet, but I'm very sorry to hear that, dude.
> 
> I guess the cut off for cubital tunnel is 48-50 m/sec...and I'm at 47 m/sec. So, slight, but it's present.
> 
> ...



Ahhh brutal man. How did it turn out in the end?

I have all my tests scheduled to find out exactly how bad it is, but it took literally like 30 seconds for the doc to get that look on his face like "...shit" lol. He's still highly encouraging surgery, because I guess once you get to muscle loss it's kinda like no going back without it. (The nerve dies if too much roughs it up.) When he mentioned surgery I was trying to stay away from it, no guitar for a year and a half is NOT freakin cool, lol.

I'll know more after my tests, all indications so far are surgery, so with the help of everyone here, I've figured:

-After testing goes down, there are many exercises to help improve the probability of a successful surgery, as well as preventing future Cubitial tunnel.
-18-24 month recovery, 85% recovery rate
-If I'm one of the 15%, left handed it is. 

Did I miss anything?


----------



## zukobro (Apr 20, 2011)

Blake1970 said:


> Sorry to hear about that Zukobro. I had cubital tunnel syndrome in both arms and had to have surgery. It got to the point where I could not play guitar period. To my surprise my arms are fine today! The recovery went faster than expected, probably because after they healed I started exercising. The surgeries were about a year apart and my right arm which is my picking arm was more severe than my left arm. When I had it done I decided to move the unlar nerve to the front which is called unlar nerve transposition. Anyways I just wanted to let you know that you can be fixed up, just do something about it now before your muscles are destroyed.



That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you!!! 

I intend to get this dealt with now. I'm glad to hear you recovered! I really think it's a crime against nature for a musician to lose his ability to play.


----------



## Blake1970 (Apr 20, 2011)

No problems. I know how you feel man. I was depressed and even shoved all my gear into my closet swearing to never play again. I seriously have no problems today and I&#8217;m glad I had the procedure done. I know you don&#8217;t live in Texas, but there is a link below to the Doctor that did my surgery. The crazy thing is that after I had it done on my right arm I could feel a difference immediately. I mean mine was to the point where I could not feel my fingers, almost like paralysis was setting in. So anyway I play my guitars everyday with much enjoyment J

Houston Orthopaedic Surgeon - Carpal Tunnel, Hand Surgery and Sports Medicine


----------



## Blake1970 (Apr 20, 2011)

Here is a good video about cubital tunnel.

Houston Hand Surgeon specializing in Cubital Tunnel Syndrome


----------



## zukobro (Apr 20, 2011)

Blake1970 said:


> Here is a good video about cubital tunnel.
> 
> Houston Hand Surgeon specializing in Cubital Tunnel Syndrome



Would you mind if I kept in contact with ya through this? You're the first person I've met whose even had the syndrome, and the surgery, let alone another guitarist who has had it done. 

OH I forgot the irony of all this, lmao:
Last month I finally bought my dream rig. ENGL Savage and a new seven. 

I would deserve to burn in hell if I let an amplifier of this craftsmanship and a guitar of this beauty go to waste


----------



## Blake1970 (Apr 20, 2011)

Yeah man no problems. I'm on the forum everyday here at work. Just PM me or whatever works best. Badass gear by the way!


----------



## zukobro (Apr 20, 2011)

haha thank you! I still haven't gotten to play the ENGL, the power tubes were fried on arrival. :/ apparently it takes guitar center a month to replace power tubes...jerks...


----------



## Ill-Gotten James (Apr 20, 2011)

I do not know much about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, but it can be reversed through surgery, or even lifestyle changes. I'm not sure if you already know what it is, but cubital tunnel syndrome is compression of your ulner nerve. Your ulner nerve runs through your elbow and when tapped the right way, gives you that annoying tingling feeling. Hence how the term came about, hitting your funny bone. So basically your nerve is being compressed, but the question is, what are you doing that is causing your nerve to become compressed? It could be from playing guitar, but it could also be from other things as well. Some of the common causes are: sleeping with your arm sharply bent, resting your elbows for extended (i mean extended) periods of time on a hard surface, keeping your arm bent while talking on the phone for long periods of time, blunt trauma (car accident, sports injury, fight), kind of weird stuff like that. Surgery could be a potential option, but also look into proper arm postures, accupuncture, massage therapy, and straight up resting that arm. The most important thing you can do for yourself right now is to prevent anymore injury from occurring to your ulner nerve. Try to be really conscious of what you are doing with your arms. I know, kind of sounds a little dumb, but it could help. I hope you have a quick and speedy recovery.


----------



## zukobro (Apr 20, 2011)

Ill-Gotten James said:


> I do not know much about Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, but it can be reversed through surgery, or even lifestyle changes. I'm not sure if you already know what it is, but cubital tunnel syndrome is compression of your ulner nerve. Your ulner nerve runs through your elbow and when tapped the right way, gives you that annoying tingling feeling. Hence how the term came about, hitting your funny bone. So basically your nerve is being compressed, but the question is, what are you doing that is causing your nerve to become compressed? It could be from playing guitar, but it could also be from other things as well. Some of the common causes are: sleeping with your arm sharply bent, resting your elbows for extended (i mean extended) periods of time on a hard surface, keeping your arm bent while talking on the phone for long periods of time, blunt trauma (car accident, sports injury, fight), kind of weird stuff like that. Surgery could be a potential option, but also look into proper arm postures, accupuncture, massage therapy, and straight up resting that arm. The most important thing you can do for yourself right now is to prevent anymore injury from occurring to your ulner nerve. Try to be really conscious of what you are doing with your arms. I know, kind of sounds a little dumb, but it could help. I hope you have a quick and speedy recovery.



I appreciate your comment, however, with this condition, after muscle deterioration has started, the nerve has already been damaged too much to be reversed with a conventional method. My hand already has severe muscle deterioration. The case I'm in is for surgical cases only, as surgery would be the only option. If I don't get surgery on it, my hand will continue to be damaged more and more until it's no longer usable. As for what's causing it, I really have no idea. It could be none or all those things,


----------



## Dead Undead (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that, man. Hope you recover fully.

Stay optimistic, though. Just look at Jason Becker. He can only move his eyes, but he continues to compose fantastic music. He's also making great progress in his recovery, so I have no doubt that you will as well. Don't be disheartened. Keep your spirits up!


----------



## zukobro (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks again to everyone for the input and advice! As it turns out, the surgery is inevitable, probably a couple years off guitar, i'll reassess later, probably with another forum, lol.


----------



## Blake1970 (Apr 27, 2011)

Think positive man and good luck! I imagine you will be back playing before you know it


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 27, 2011)

zukobro said:


> Thanks again to everyone for the input and advice! As it turns out, the surgery is inevitable, probably a couple years off guitar, i'll reassess later, probably with another forum, lol.




Just remember better to need to take a break and be able to come back to it, than to never play again. Forced breaks are hard, no doubt, but you can do it


----------



## Strummer (Aug 31, 2012)

Really glad I found this thread - I'm getting ready to sign up for this surgery. Thanks for the good info.


----------

