# Tell me about Modern Metal Amps



## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

This is pretty open ended, but I haven't been paying attention to these types of amps for a while, so just throw some knowledge at me. 

Stuff I've used:
- 5150: pretty damn cool. Might just stick with this one.
- Rectifiers: I like them a lot; similar to the 5150 but they always seem more polished, less in-your-face than the 5150. They seem to struggle a bit with a low F# string, though.
- Diezel VH4: had a few of these ages ago. Sounded killer. Not sure how it would deal with the low F#
- Fryette Pitbulls and Deliverance: I used a 50CL long ago and loved it. So maybe I'd like the 100cl or Ultralead; I assume those would handle the F# pretty well. I LOVED the D120, but worry maybe it's too fat for the F# stuff.

What else is out there?
- PRS Arcon: I really like the clips I'm hearing. Tight and mean sounding
- Fortin: sounds pretty tight and aggressive. Company seems odd to deal with; not sure if it'll really be different than sticking more wild boost pedals in front of my Marshalls
- Revv Amps? What are those like?
- KSR?
- Hiwatt Super Hi 50?

What else is out there?

Thanks!


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

What exactly are you looking for sound wise? Tight/quite dry like a UL, or more saturated but still quite tight like a Mesa Mark, or something in between?


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## budda (May 14, 2019)

There'a a bunch of low number production, rarely seen in the wild hypebeast high end things.

Me, I would stick with the 5150.


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## odibrom (May 14, 2019)

No Mesa Boogie Mark series love there? I don't play 8 strings much (I seldom pick up my RG8 loaded with DAs) but when I do, I can get pretty much any tone i need (the guitar is also modded as hell). My amp is a Triaxis paired with a 2:fifty and cabs are 2x 112 loaded with Celestions Century Vintage.

The one thing I noticed is that one has to lower the gain and bass settings a little when chugging on the 8th string and power chords chugs are not cool there... other than that I believe any other high gain amp could do the job, being it a matter of taste on the grain and overall tone. I'd be more concerned with the cab/speakers in use, fast attack/response is my preference, then EQ to taste...


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

budda said:


> There'a a bunch of low number production, rarely seen in the wild hypebeast high end things.
> 
> Me, I would stick with the 5150.



Yeah, I hear you. Years ago, I went bonkers and hunted down an old blue face VH4 because I thought it'd be cool. It was... an amp. I don't really want to get stuck in that mind set again.



KnightBrolaire said:


> What exactly are you looking for sound wise? Tight/quite dry like a UL, or more saturated but still quite tight like a Mesa Mark, or something in between?



I dunno really. I think something saturated but with an aggressive/in-your-face quality. Really the 5150; this is stupid. I should just be happy with it.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

odibrom said:


> No Mesa Boogie Mark series love there? I don't play 8 strings much (I seldom pick up my RG8 loaded with DAs) but when I do, I can get pretty much any tone i need (the guitar is also modded as hell). My amp is a Triaxis paired with a 2:fifty and cabs are 2x 112 loaded with Celestions Century Vintage.
> 
> The one thing I noticed is that one has to lower the gain and bass settings a little when chugging on the 8th string and power chords are not cool there... other than that I believe any other high gain amp could do the job, being it a matter of taste on the grain and overall tone. I'd be more concerned with the cab/speakers in use, fast attack/response is my preference, then EQ to taste...



I like the sounds of Mark amps when other people use them. For whatever reason as soon as I plug into one, I can't make it sound right. I should try one again.


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## Sumsar (May 14, 2019)

Seems that the evh version of the 5150 is kinda the go to for most metal applications. A fairly new thing is that they both come in 6l6 and EL34 versions, with the EL34 version being more aggressive but less tight it seems.


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## Strobe (May 14, 2019)

A 5150 (with a boost if you are tuning low / demand more tightness) is a good, classic sound. The way I have heard another forum member put it best, was that you really have no business having a worse tone than a 5150. From there is is a matter of your personal tastes.

My personal favorites and a really brief blurb about them.
Marshall JVM, Bogner Uberschall, JP2C, Peavey XXX, and 5150. I have usually gravitated towards British sounds, and the JVM is the best Marshall ever made in my opinion. It really does have all the gain you would need, just the right level of compression to my ears, and can sound very tight. It's also good at almost any gain level from clean to crunch to very saturated. The Uberschall has this magical low end to it that sounds very heavy without getting mushy - I have never found an amp that did what this thing does. Great option if you like a lot of low end. Mesa has the best liquidy lead tones in my mind, and I love the two graphic EQ's on the front panel. I usually want more of a V-curve for rhythm and the opposite (more mids) for leads. This lets you do that. More Mesa amps need this. If you like a really dry sounding gain, the Peavey XXX is both very affordable and great sounding to my ears. It has always been a favorite. The 5150 is probably what half the metal recordings in the last 20 years have used, and it's just good, so if you like it maybe stick with it.


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## mogar (May 14, 2019)

For the money, it's just so damn hard to beat a boosted 5150.


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## Sumsar (May 14, 2019)

I too have been on the lookout some time for my next metal amp, so @Strobe could you go a bit more into detail on the Marshall JVM? What do you use it for? and how do you think it would fare for black metal and more oldschool death metal? Using 7 strings in standard tuning, 25.5" necks? I assume we are talking the JVM 410H? is any of the other models worth something?


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## Strobe (May 14, 2019)

Sumsar said:


> I too have been on the lookout some time for my next metal amp, so @Strobe could you go a bit more into detail on the Marshall JVM? What do you use it for? and how do you think it would fare for black metal and more oldschool death metal? Using 7 strings in standard tuning, 25.5" necks? I assume we are talking the JVM 410H? is any of the other models worth something?



Both guitars on my old band's Cytokine storm's album are amped through a Marshall JVM (recording guitar was an Ibanez with EMG's). We were in drop C for this. I have also used it and had it sound great in drop G# on a 7 string - I have not tried it lower than that. If you want to hear it in a mix, I have a couple tracks below. This band broke up years ago, so I am seriously not trying to pimp my band here, just trying to give you an idea what a JVM can sound like 

We were kind of proggy - it's a saturated more classic sound rather than a djent or tech death sound. I know my JCM2000 can do the death metal sound with a boost. I think I would want something a bit grainier for black metal personally, but the JVM can do darn near anything besides maybe a really dry distortion sound.





The other JVM models sound about the same, it's just features (i.e. how many channels). The Satriani model adds a really nice noise gate to it, which is handy and saves a spot on your pedal board - that's my personal favorite version of the amp because of that added feature - but it's usually pricier and more rare.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I dunno really. I think something saturated but with an aggressive/in-your-face quality. Really the 5150; this is stupid. I should just be happy with it.


That sounds like a Mark or a Revv or my Peters FSM to me. All of them have a shit ton of aggression, gain and saturation on tap if need be, plus they're all quite tonally versatile/can easily handle 8 string tones. 

I know it sounds stupid, but have you tried cutting a ton of bass and depth out of your 5150's eq?
I usually have to dial back the bass a fair amount on my f100 and FSM when I use my 8 strings compared to my 6 string baritones.


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## StevenC (May 14, 2019)

I've played some of the amps mentioned in this thread and I have to recommend a Diezel. 

VH4 is my go to at the minute and it sounds amazing for F# and E. Can't recommend a VH4 or Herbert enough. Haven't tried A Hagen, but I imagine it'll work as well. Herbert is their 7 and 8 string amp though.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> That sounds like a Mark or a Revv or my Peters FSM to me. All of them have a shit ton of aggression, gain and saturation on tap if need be, plus they're all quite tonally versatile/can easily handle 8 string tones.
> 
> I know it sounds stupid, but have you tried cutting a ton of bass and depth out of your 5150's eq?
> I usually have to dial back the bass a fair amount on my f100 and FSM when I use my 8 strings compared to my 6 string baritones.



I'm pretty happy with the 5150. I think last time I used it, I had the gain at 2.5, bass at 4, mids and treble at 6, depth around 4, and presence around 6. Sounded pretty cool to me. Maybe I should pick up a Mark III to see if I can get along with it. Or just be happy with the 5150.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

StevenC said:


> I've played some of the amps mentioned in this thread and I have to recommend a Diezel.
> 
> VH4 is my go to at the minute and it sounds amazing for F# and E. Can't recommend a VH4 or Herbert enough. Haven't tried A Hagen, but I imagine it'll work as well. Herbert is their 7 and 8 string amp though.



Cool. I loved the VH4 that I had years ago. That would be a nice home coming to have one again.


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## Deadpool_25 (May 14, 2019)

The 5150 is a beast. Easy to dial in good tones and is the archetypal metal amp. What does it not do that you want it to?


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## StevenC (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Cool. I loved the VH4 that I had years ago. That would be a nice home coming to have one again.


A blueface VH4S is on my bucket list, but there are like 5 of them so we'll see.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I'm pretty happy with the 5150. I think last time I used it, I had the gain at 2.5, bass at 4, mids and treble at 6, depth around 4, and presence around 6. Sounded pretty cool to me. Maybe I should pick up a Mark III to see if I can get along with it. Or just be happy with the 5150.


yeah, just try chopping out even more bass/depth with the 5150 first. 10 band eqs are a good cheap way to experiment with tones as well.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

Anyone try the Victory Super Kraken?



StevenC said:


> A blueface VH4S is on my bucket list, but there are like 5 of them so we'll see.



I had a '98 Bluefaced VH4S. It was very cool. If I'm honest with myself, I preferred the 2007+ versions of the VH4. The later versions were tighter and more aggressive sounding.


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## StevenC (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Anyone try the Victory Super Kraken?
> 
> 
> 
> I had a '98 Bluefaced VH4S. It was very cool. If I'm honest with myself, I preferred the 2007+ versions of the VH4. The later versions were tighter and more aggressive sounding.


Oh man that's amazing!

I've no strong feelings as to which is better between older and newer VH4s, I just want a blue VH4S because it's so cool.

(And even then I'd sit and complain that channel 1 is a bit crap.)


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## Deadpool_25 (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Anyone try the Victory Super Kraken?



Yes. 

Tempted to leave it at that but I will say this...I think my Invective and my TC-100 are going to be collecting dust.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

StevenC said:


> Oh man that's amazing!
> 
> I've no strong feelings as to which is better between older and newer VH4s, I just want a blue VH4S because it's so cool.
> 
> (And even then I'd sit and complain that channel 1 is a bit crap.)



Blueface Channel 1 was great. There’s an extra preamp tube on that channel, and it would do a wonderful edge of break up tone that was just beautiful. 

The rest of the amp just wasn’t as angry sounding as the newer versions. Which some folks might prefer.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Tempted to leave it at that but I will say this...I think my Invective and my TC-100 are going to be collecting dust.



Is the lead channel really like a 5150?

Have you taken a look at the pcb/wiring? If so, how does all of that look? Seems like the Victory stuff is made well.


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## Deadpool_25 (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Is the lead channel really like a 5150?
> 
> Have you taken a look at the pcb/wiring? If so, how does all of that look? Seems like the Victory stuff is made well.



It’s definitely in that realm. I haven’t had a chance to compare the SK and the Invective yet but now that the Invective is reassembled (just a cosmetic change) I want to actually A/B them. FWIW, I did A/B the Invective with my 5150 and ended up selling the 5150 because I couldn’t hear a difference in the crunch and lead channels (highly dependent on the Invective’s settings).

Oh and I haven’t looked inside the SK yet but I will do that in the next day or two and post a pic.


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## Bearitone (May 14, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I usually have to dial back the bass a fair amount on my f100 and FSM when I use my 8 strings compared to my 6 string baritones.



That’s interesting. Does the bari-6 have a longer scale length?


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> That’s interesting. Does the bari-6 have a longer scale length?


It's more to do with pickup choices and inherent timbres of the guitar. some of my baritones have fatter sounding pickups (hellfires, fishman modern v2) than what I run in my 8 strings, but the low strings on the 8 strings need some extra help to stay tight sounding. Scale lengths are relatively comparable with all of my bari-6s being over 27" scale, and all of my 8 strings are 27" or 28".


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## MASS DEFECT (May 14, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Tempted to leave it at that but I will say this...I think my Invective and my TC-100 are going to be collecting dust.



SK must be really good to exceed the Invective and TC100. I just don't like the shared eq but it ticks all the features I like in my book.

What's wrong with the Triple Crown? I thought it can do Boogie Marshall hybrid tones already. Funny is that I have been wanting a TC100 to pair up with my JP2C but couldn't demo anything out here loud enough to know if it offers anything new that the JP2C cant do. You know, since it is also basically a Mark platform amp.

To the OP:

Try simpler Marks out there if you can. I too was in the same boat that I liked Mark sounds but couldnt really make them sound good in my own hands. Trying a Mark V and a Mark IV soured my expectations and just stuck to my trusty 5150II.

Then I tried a Mark III and Mark IIC+ locally and I was floored. They were simpler to operate than the Mark V and once you get the concept of how those B/M/T controls work, you could actually make it sound like anyway you want. It can be super tight and super loose. It is heavy but clear and it doesn't have the 5150 low mids congestion but has that snarl and aggression in the high mids and treble that my past 5150s can't really do without sounding overly fizzy.

So I got a JP2C, the simplest high gain Mark amp out there. But the 5150II still stays since that thing kills small animals live.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> SK must be really good to exceed the Invective and TC100. I just don't like the shared eq but it ticks all the features I like in my book.
> 
> What's wrong with the Triple Crown? I thought it can do Boogie Marshall hybrid tones already. Funny is that I have been wanting a TC100 to pair up with my JP2C but couldn't demo anything out here loud enough to know if it offers anything new that the JP2C cant do. You know, since it is also basically a Mark platform amp.
> 
> ...


yeah, I sold my mk4 almost immediately after gettting my mk3. It's easier to use, and it's even more raw/aggressive sounding comparatively. The only way I'd ditch my mk3 is for a JP2C and I'm feeling like that might just be an expensive sidegrade.


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## JD27 (May 14, 2019)

TC50 was one of my favorite amps I’ve owned, so much that I sold my a Mark V, Modded Single Rec, and .50 Caliber +. Very versatile amp too.


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## MASS DEFECT (May 14, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah, I sold my mk4 almost immediately after gettting my mk3. It's easier to use, and it's even more raw/aggressive sounding comparatively. The only way I'd ditch my mk3 is for a JP2C and I'm feeling like that might just be an expensive sidegrade.


 

The mark III is the more raw and aggressive sounding amp for sure. But the JP2C is the better gigging amp with all its features. I can get Mark III levels of aggression if I run the presence (pulled) a bit higher and back down the gain a bit and ride the bass. JP2C feels louder too. 

and that Push Presence on the JP2C is another tone altogether that the Mark III doesnt have. It's quite modern and tighter.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 14, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> The mark III is the more raw and aggressive sounding amp for sure. But the JP2C is the better gigging amp with all its features. I can get Mark III levels of aggression if I run the presence (pulled) a bit higher and back down the gain a bit and ride the bass. JP2C feels louder too.
> 
> and that Push Presence on the JP2C is another tone altogether that the Mark III doesnt have. It's quite modern and tighter.


cool, thanks for the info. I guess I can scratch that one off my hit list, since the only way I'd ditch the mk3 is for something even more aggressive voicing wise.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

This is surely idiotic, but I'm strongly considering having someone make me a turret-board clone of the 5150 lead channel. Just a straight ahead, high-quality metal machine.


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## Bearitone (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> This is surely idiotic, but I'm strongly considering having someone make me a turret-board clone of the 5150 lead channel. Just a straight ahead, high-quality metal machine.



Uhhh why? You can grab American made 6505’s for real cheap and their just as reliable as any turret board version.

Unless for some reason you want it to just have one channel? That would a lot of money to spend on an amp that sounds just like a 5150 red channel with no flexibility (only one channel)


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## mnemonic (May 14, 2019)

Since you are into Marshall sounds but also want high gain, why not look into some modded 2203 style amps? Ceriatone make a few that are sort of Cameron/fortin flavour, with the yeti, chupacabra, King Kong, and now the gargoyle. All turret board with panel mounted everything.


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## Deadpool_25 (May 14, 2019)

cardinal said:


> This is surely idiotic, but I'm strongly considering having someone make me a turret-board clone of the 5150 lead channel. Just a straight ahead, high-quality metal machine.



So basically you just want to go shopping? Don’t get me wrong—I’m not judging. I do it all the time lol. 



MASS DEFECT said:


> SK must be really good to exceed the Invective and TC100. I just don't like the shared eq but it ticks all the features I like in my book.
> 
> What's wrong with the Triple Crown? I thought it can do Boogie Marshall hybrid tones already. Funny is that I have been wanting a TC100 to pair up with my JP2C but couldn't demo anything out here loud enough to know if it offers anything new that the JP2C cant do. You know, since it is also basically a Mark platform amp.



Nothing wrong with the TC-100. Great amp. It’s definitely got its own thing going on, and that thing is really good. But I’ve been looking for the Fender/Marshall/5150 amp for quite a while. The TC is a bit unique for that. I’m not sure saying it’s a Mark platform is accurate. Again, it does all of its tones quite well, just not quite what I was looking for.

Much the same for the Invective. It’s close. The clean is great but a bit more warm and compressed and doesn’t quite hit that Fender sparkle. The crunch doesn’t open up at low enough gain to be in Marshall territory. It’s basically the 5150 crunch channel which is quite good in its own right. The lead nails it for me though. 

The SK seems to hit all the marks for me. Realize, I’m not saying it’s objectively better. Just that it hits my targets the best of the three. At least as far as I can tell so far. Subject to change of course lol.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Since you are into Marshall sounds but also want high gain, why not look into some modded 2203 style amps? Ceriatone make a few that are sort of Cameron/fortin flavour, with the yeti, chupacabra, King Kong, and now the gargoyle. All turret board with panel mounted everything.



Yeah, the Gargoyle kinda looks interesting.

The Hiwatt Super-Hi 50 also has my attention.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> So basically you just want to go shopping? Don’t get me wrong—I’m not judging. I do it all the time lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Glad to hear good vibes on the Super Kraken. 

I'm just frustrated right now. I have a few Rectos at the house and just cannot get them to work for me, though I really like them with 7-strings. I just need to spend some more time with the 5150. That amp really does put a smile on my face. 

DudeManBrother's Archon clip was bad ass, though. That's probably the way to go.


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## mnemonic (May 14, 2019)

You mentioned KSR in your first post also, I believe they are generally SLO-based, and I read people say they have kind of an SLO/Mesa kind of character. I would love to get my hands on an Ares. They’re supposed to be very tight sounding. 

Gut pics also look nice on them, they seem well laid out, but they are PCB with board mounted tube sockets. But that is pretty standard fare with most stuff.


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## cardinal (May 14, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> You mentioned KSR in your first post also, I believe they are generally SLO-based, and I read people say they have kind of an SLO/Mesa kind of character. I would love to get my hands on an Ares. They’re supposed to be very tight sounding.
> 
> Gut pics also look nice on them, they seem well laid out, but they are PCB with board mounted tube sockets. But that is pretty standard fare with most stuff.



I’ve had an SLO. Magnificent amp but definitely not what I’m looking for right now.


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## sakeido (May 14, 2019)

Of all the tube amps I played I liked the Diezel VH4 most for ultra low tunings. the crisp, clean German character made it great for 8 stringing... but really boring for everything else. Didn't dig it. It was like if someone built a tube amp with an Axe FX tone as a blueprint, which I know isn't the case, but it's the closest comparison that comes to mind



cardinal said:


> This is surely idiotic, but I'm strongly considering having someone make me a turret-board clone of the 5150 lead channel. Just a straight ahead, high-quality metal machine.



that's pretty much a Soldano Hot Rod 100 isn't it? always heard the 5150 is very, very close to the SLO... the Hot Rod is the SLO gain channel minus the mega-buck transformers and lifetime warranty. Good luck finding one, but big things are supposedly coming for Soldano so hopefully their stuff gets out there again in good numbers and at more attainable price points than before


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## Spinedriver (May 14, 2019)

If you don't mind tracking down used amps, I used to have a Randall T2 and it's an absolute METAL machine.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 14, 2019)

Since the OP already likes the 5150 and uses a lot of treble/mids and cuts bass and depth, I feel like there are already a handful of easy options just based on that. 5150II/6505+, EVH 5153, Mesa Mark III/IV/V, Peavey Invective, etc.

The 5150II was basically just a slight mod to the original circuit to make it a bit tighter on the red channel and the Invective is a Block Letter with a clean channel and built-in boost/gate. So yeah, familiar, but different enough to warrant a new amp, you know? It may even be as easy as trying a different boost to get a different flavor of chug out of the amp.


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## Deadpool_25 (May 15, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Is the lead channel really like a 5150?
> 
> Have you taken a look at the pcb/wiring? If so, how does all of that look? Seems like the Victory stuff is made well.



Super Kraken gut shots. 

















Looks beautiful and very well made.


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## cardinal (May 15, 2019)

Ah ha! I’ve been fighting with a Recto and just figured out it was my pickups.

Put a Fishman Modern Ceramic back into my other PT8 and it is CRUSHING and TIGHT into the Reborn Triple. Man that is a great sound.

The pickup was way to thin and a bit shrill into my Marshalls so I pulled it out and forgot about it. Now my #1 is a Schecter PT8 with Dimarzios that does really well with Marshalls for that hot rod/hard rock type tone. I don’t use the low B or F# strings that often, but I think the Dimarzio/Marshall combo works well enough for the occasional foray into that zone.

So I think for I just end up dedicating a specific guitar (with the Modern Ceramic) and the Recto to the modern metal stuff that uses the low strings more often.

And it seems like the Triple Recto is going to work for me. Had just a few minutes with it before I had to leave for work (work is such a downer), but man that was a fun couple of minutes.


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## mnemonic (May 15, 2019)

Good to hear. 

If you still have the 2 channel dual, you’ll have to tell us how it compares to the multi watt triple.


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## narad (May 15, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Super Kraken gut shots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How many gigahertz is that amp?


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## cardinal (May 15, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> If you still have the 2 channel dual, you’ll have to tell us how it compares to the multi watt triple.



Yeah, I'll try to shoot them all out tonight. Rev G Dual, Reborn Triple, and the 5150. Presumably they'll all sound "better" with the PT8/Modern Ceramic guitar than what I was getting with the PT8/Dimarzio guitar.


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## cardinal (May 15, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Super Kraken gut shots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A lot going on there, but everything looks nicely labeled, full sized components, and more or less accessible without have to pull the whole board. Definitely a tight fit!


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## cardinal (May 15, 2019)

And thanks again to Deadpool for the gut shots. For comparison sake, here is (someone else's) gut shot of a Reborn Dual Rectifier, so you can see the construction methods are similar to Mesa's methods, which are very highly regarded:






If I'm looking at it right, the tube sockets that you can see are the preamp tubes. The power tube sockets I think are chassis-mounted under their own board. The rectifier tubes are board-mounted off to the right. Board mounted jacks seem standard these days. The mesa has chassis-mounted pots with flying leads (just out of the picture along the bottom; you can see the flying leads coming off from the pots).

The Mesa board isn't so nicely labeled as the Victory that @Deadpool_25 posted and if for whatever reason you needed to access the power tube sockets, I think you'll have to pull at least one board, maybe several. I think Mesa left cutouts to get to the screen resistors, but in the Victory, you can see the screen resistors right there.


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## LCW (May 15, 2019)

ENGL Savage, Powerball, Fireball


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## MASS DEFECT (May 15, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Ah ha! I’ve been fighting with a Recto and just figured out it was my pickups.
> 
> Put a Fishman Modern Ceramic back into my other PT8 and it is CRUSHING and TIGHT into the Reborn Triple. Man that is a great sound.
> 
> ...



I was thinking that now the Fortin 33 pedal is available again, you can try in with your Recto. They are perfect for rectos and 8 string guitars. Chug chugs that are tiiiiight


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## cardinal (May 16, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> If you still have the 2 channel dual, you’ll have to tell us how it compares to the multi watt triple.



I didn’t make any A/B clips but I did compare them. The Reborn Triple is much more immediate, aggressive/bright, and in-your-face. In comparison, the Rev G Recto just felt slow and like a blanket was over the cab. It did seem to have a cool “depth” to the low end that the tighter Triple maybe didn’t have, so it could work if you’re not tuned down this low and/or are playing a slower/looser style.


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## Nicki (May 16, 2019)

Try the 5150III EL34.

The Uberschall is one of my favorite amps ever and if I could ever afford one, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. The Revv Generator is also a beast.


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## DudeManBrother (May 16, 2019)

I’m going to tune my 7 back down to f# again and play thru my Uberschall tonight. I’m curious how it will sound. Maybe second only to my Ultra Lead; the Uber has massive amounts of low end, but it’s so beautifully voiced; it’s never flubby. Very punchy and menacing.


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## cardinal (May 16, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> If you still have the 2 channel dual, you’ll have to tell us how it compares to the multi watt triple.



I'm such an idiot. A Rev E two-channel Dual Recto popped up for sale, and I couldn't help myself. I was too curious to see how it sounds. I'll try to hold onto the Rev G for long enough to compare them side by side. I've read that the Rev F and G used a different circuit board from the C, D, and E revs, so I'm really interested it opening them up to have a look.

Hopefully the Rev E really is brighter than the G.


----------



## mnemonic (May 16, 2019)

You’ll become a Recto expert on all the revisions in under two weeks 

From what I remember from reading the forums, the F and later is more the Recto sound we’re familiar with, and the older pre-500 are brighter and tighter. I’d love to try a few revisions back to back but I barely even see 2 channel rev G’s for sale in the U.K.


----------



## prlgmnr (May 17, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> You’ll become a Recto expert on all the revisions in under two weeks
> 
> From what I remember from reading the forums, the F and later is more the Recto sound we’re familiar with, and the older pre-500 are brighter and tighter. I’d love to try a few revisions back to back but I barely even see 2 channel rev G’s for sale in the U.K.


There's a 2 channel triple on ebay at the moment, not sure what revision.


----------



## cardinal (May 20, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I didn’t make any A/B clips but I did compare them. The Reborn Triple is much more immediate, aggressive/bright, and in-your-face. In comparison, the Rev G Recto just felt slow and like a blanket was over the cab. It did seem to have a cool “depth” to the low end that the tighter Triple maybe didn’t have, so it could work if you’re not tuned down this low and/or are playing a slower/looser style.



So I’ve gone back and forth with them and will try to get some better clips (I had some going but got interrupted in the middle of one...). 

I’ve got them to the point to where I prefer the Dual Rec in the room but prefer the recordings of the Triple. 

In the room, the Dual is thicker and meaner sounding, but it is darker/more congested. The Triple is deeper and more present with more “clarity” and note separation but just isn’t quite the growling wall of sound of the Dual. 

Frustrating because listening in the room, those things make me prefer the Dual, but in a recording the Triple sounds better to me 

(Good news is that I could be happy with either I guess. I’ve learned I’m happiest with them set to a heavy crunch, a la JCM 800 and then using an OD808 for high gain and an SD-1 for thrashy metal, just like how I use a JCM 800).


----------



## budda (May 20, 2019)

Were you running the dual and triple at the same volume? The triple should be burying the other to an extent.


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## op1e (May 20, 2019)

Get an MTS Randall or a Synergy rig and have all the amps.


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## cardinal (May 21, 2019)

budda said:


> Were you running the dual and triple at the same volume? The triple should be burying the other to an extent.



Yeah, same volume. The Triple certainly can get very loud, but it doesn’t have to be loud.


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## odibrom (May 21, 2019)

op1e said:


> Get an MTS Randall or a Synergy rig and have all the amps.



If I didn't have a Triaxis already, that's the path I'd take


----------



## viifox (May 23, 2019)

If you like rectos, you'll love the Archon.


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## cardinal (May 31, 2019)

Well that Rev E Dual Recto finally made its way to me from LA. Noticeably different than the Rev G. Much more present and in-your-face sounding. Just turning up the presence and treble on the Rev G can't seem to get the same thing. Really pretty happy with the Rev E, though I kinda hate using stuff that is hard to replace.

It still struggles a bit tracking the low F#, but I caved and ordered a Fortin 33 that hopefully will address that issue. At a minimum I'm hoping that I can at least click it on for low F# riffing and then click it off for normal tuned stuff. Same concept as just stepping on a wah pedal for only certain solos or riffs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Well that Rev E Dual Recto finally made its way to me from LA. Noticeably different than the Rev G. Much more present and in-your-face sounding. Just turning up the presence and treble on the Rev G can't seem to get the same thing. Really pretty happy with the Rev E, though I kinda hate using stuff that is hard to replace.
> 
> It still struggles a bit tracking the low F#, but I caved and ordered a Fortin 33 that hopefully will address that issue. At a minimum I'm hoping that I can at least click it on for low F# riffing and then click it off for normal tuned stuff. Same concept as just stepping on a wah pedal for only certain solos or riffs.


lol you should just try a Mark series at this point


----------



## cardinal (May 31, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> lol you should just try a Mark series at this point



Yeah, I know. 

I still want to try an Archon too, which sounds awesome in all of the clips. I really like the mid-gain Recto tones, and it does seem like the Archon really struggles there. The 5150 definitely does. The Recto in Vintage mode with the gain around 10:00 sounds really very nice for just straight up rock and I like that a lot. Not quite as much character as an old school Marshall (a bit "generic" sounding), but a really nice, thick crunchy sound. Not sure the Mark is going to have that.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Yeah, I know.
> 
> I still want to try an Archon too, which sounds awesome in all of the clips. I really like the mid-gain Recto tones, and it does seem like the Archon really struggles there. The 5150 definitely does. The Recto in Vintage mode with the gain around 10:00 sounds really very nice for just straight up rock and I like that a lot. Not quite as much character as an old school Marshall (a bit "generic" sounding), but a really nice, thick crunchy sound. Not sure the Mark is going to have that.


The mk3 excels at 80s hair metal/70s rock tones along with modern tones imo. The newer marks work for old school tones as well, but the mk3 in particular just has that extra tinge of "marshall" flavor. The upper mids make it feel very hot rodded jcm800 esque at times. Whitesnake used them for Slip of the Tongue and their 87 album, and Night Ranger used em forever as well. The mk3 can get recto thick on the lead channel depending on how you dial in the bass/mids. The newer marks are better at aping that vibe though imo.


----------



## cardinal (May 31, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> The mk3 excels at 80s hair metal/70s rock tones along with modern tones imo. The newer marks work for old school tones as well, but the mk3 in particular just has that extra tinge of "marshall" flavor. The upper mids make it feel very hot rodded jcm800 esque at times. Whitesnake used them for Slip of the Tongue and their 87 album, and Night Ranger used em forever as well. The mk3 can get recto thick on the lead channel depending on how you dial in the bass/mids. The newer marks are better at aping that vibe though imo.



I'm thinking more like Billy Duffy's tone on The Cult's Electric album. The Rectos I've used are surprisingly good at that type of tone. I assume it's because of the amps looks like nu metal machines, but I am blown away at how good the amp sounds doing that type of thing (and a low volumes if you want) yet you don't hear people talk about that. If the amp were covered in tweed and the gain knob stopped at 11:00 or so, I would think that it'd be all the rage with the classic rock crowd on The Gear Page, but since it has a diamond plate grill and instead has a ton of gain available, I guess it gets overlooked for just how well it can flat out rawk.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I'm thinking more like Billy Duffy's tone on The Cult's Electric album. The Rectos I've used are surprisingly good at that type of tone. I assume it's because of the amps looks like nu metal machines, but I am blown away at how good the amp sounds doing that type of thing (and a low volumes if you want) yet you don't hear people talk about that. If the amp were covered in tweed and the gain knob stopped at 11:00 or so, I would think that it'd be all the rage with the classic rock crowd on The Gear Page, but since it has a diamond plate grill and instead has a ton of gain available, I guess it gets overlooked for just how well it can flat out rawk.


the r2 and clean channel on the mark amps can do those kind of jangly/snarly midgain marshally tones no problem. Just ask @Drew -iirc he uses those kinds of tones with his mk5.


----------



## cardinal (May 31, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> the r2 and clean channel on the mark amps can do those kind of jangly/snarly midgain marshally tones no problem. Just ask @Drew -iirc he uses those kinds of tones with his mk5.



Cool, I should try to track on of those down. I guess I'm somewhat leary of the MKV's channel two because I haven't had any luck with the recent Recto's Brit/Edge/Whatever settings, which seem like what maybe Mesa was going for with the MKV's second channel. I looked into the JP2C, and it looks like that second channel was for high gain rhythms, like they skipped a mid gain channel.


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## icipher (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Well that Rev E Dual Recto finally made its way to me from LA. Noticeably different than the Rev G. Much more present and in-your-face sounding. Just turning up the presence and treble on the Rev G can't seem to get the same thing. Really pretty happy with the Rev E, though I kinda hate using stuff that is hard to replace.
> 
> It still struggles a bit tracking the low F#, but I caved and ordered a Fortin 33 that hopefully will address that issue. At a minimum I'm hoping that I can at least click it on for low F# riffing and then click it off for normal tuned stuff. Same concept as just stepping on a wah pedal for only certain solos or riffs.



The 33 sounds amazing. Why wouldn't you leave it on for all your rhythm playing, especially considering how low tuned you are.


----------



## Drew (May 31, 2019)

Chiming in here, Ch2 Edge was a surprise favorite of mine in the Mark V, which I bought mostly for its third channel. As a Roadster owner, I actually rather liked Brit on that, but felt like it had either a narrow sweet spot, or a narrow range of usefulness (or both). Edge with a Strat, though, flat out rules for annything from a gritty and rude clean to SRV-style lead sounds. With a LP style guitar maybe it could get into decent AC/DC territory, honestly I haven't tried though my initial impression is that it really likes singlecoils and isn't as fun with humbuckers.... but with a Strat, it's a fuckin' amazing glassy, gritty, searing cleanish-to-mid-gain sound.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Cool, I should try to track on of those down. I guess I'm somewhat leary of the MKV's channel two because I haven't had any luck with the recent Recto's Brit/Edge/Whatever settings, which seem like what maybe Mesa was going for with the MKV's second channel. I looked into the JP2C, and it looks like that second channel was for high gain rhythms, like they skipped a mid gain channel.


Any of the marks should suffice for low-midgain tones. The bigger difference is the voicing options for the high gain tones. 
For context here's some impromptu low/midgain/high gain clips I just made with my knightro 8 string through the mk3's R2:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/42mw12xxqfif3qs/Ktele8Mk3lowmidgain.zip/file


----------



## cardinal (May 31, 2019)

icipher said:


> The 33 sounds amazing. Why wouldn't you leave it on for all your rhythm playing, especially considering how low tuned you are.



I hope I can! I've not used one yet but read all kinds of gripes about how it's only good for certain things and cuts too much lows blah blah. So if it sounds too thin for the higher strings, it should be easy enough to turn off when playing passages that mostly use those strings and back on when playing passages that mostly use the lowest strings.


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## MASS DEFECT (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Cool, I should try to track on of those down. I guess I'm somewhat leary of the MKV's channel two because I haven't had any luck with the recent Recto's Brit/Edge/Whatever settings, which seem like what maybe Mesa was going for with the MKV's second channel. I looked into the JP2C, and it looks like that second channel was for high gain rhythms, like they skipped a mid gain channel.



Yeah, skip the JP2c if you want mid gain modded Marshall-esque tones. It can do Whitesnake fine but I think the MKIII, IV or even crunch on V can do it better. The JP2C has that snarly high mids too but the gain and saturation on the JP2C can be over the top even on CH2. Also CH3 is fatter than CH2.


----------



## FourT6and2 (May 31, 2019)

KSR is nice. Everything good about the Recto, 5150, SLO, Framus Cobra combined, with none of the bad. The Ares is a bit meaner than the other KSR offerings.

Diezel VH4 is an icon at this point. But you either love the Diezel compression or you don't.

Hiwatt Super-Hi 50 is awesome. It does have some quirks though. Bad grounding. Bad FX loop design. Bad switching design. But the amp sounds fantastic. My fave high-gain tone to date. Just gotta be ok living with the noise. Also it's next to impossible to buy one. Took about two months to purchase one. That was already built and in stock, ready to ship. So much back and forth with the company. They're a hot mess. I wouldn't count on their warranty either. That said, the amp is a keeper in my book.


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## StevenC (May 31, 2019)

FourT6and2 said:


> Hiwatt Super-Hi 50 is awesome. It does have some quirks though. Bad grounding. Bad FX loop design. Bad switching design. But the amp sounds fantastic. My fave high-gain tone to date. Just gotta be ok living with the noise. Also it's next to impossible to buy one. Took about two months to purchase one. That was already built and in stock, ready to ship. So much back and forth with the company. They're a hot mess. I wouldn't count on their warranty either. That said, the amp is a keeper in my book.


This is very concerning...


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## wakjob (May 31, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Yeah, I hear you. Years ago, I went bonkers and hunted down an old blue face VH4 because I thought it'd be cool. It was... an amp. I don't really want to get stuck in that mind set again.



I was at that place a few years ago.
Looked around my apartment at all the amps/cabs I had.
ALL redundant...I just dialed in my sound on all of it.

BUT, if you still need to scratch that itch...
try an original EVH 100 watter.


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## FourT6and2 (May 31, 2019)

StevenC said:


> This is very concerning...



It was a pain in the ass to buy it. I bet I'm one of only like 3 people in the USA who has one. But it does sound awesome. Just really susceptible to noise if you use the FX loop.


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## StevenC (May 31, 2019)

FourT6and2 said:


> It was a pain in the ass to buy it. I bet I'm one of only like 3 people in the USA who has one. But it does sound awesome. Just really susceptible to noise if you use the FX loop.


Yeah, I sent them an email once and then kept getting emails for a while asking if I was going to buy one. I feel like at that price, I'd just call them and say I'll come over to try one if they one in stock and buy it if I like it. It's one of very few amps I'm really interested in anymore, so I'd like to have a go on one at some point, just do not trust them until I have good reason to.


----------



## Talmaci (Jun 2, 2019)

Bogner Uberschall
VHT Ultralead (or Deliverance)
Splawn Quickrod (fantastic amps)

Couldn't find something more interesting.

Rectifiers - will always be saying that are overrated awful amps, the one and only great Mesa amp is Mark. But cabs are good. Very good.
5150s - Too tritely. Two from three modern metal albums where recorded with 5150.
Diezels - No charisma, just qualitative amps.
VHTs - Unique sound, can't find analog.
Bogner Uberschall - Crushing low end, the most aggressive amp I have ever heard. Especially Rev 2. It's crazy. IMO for super-low turnings Rev. Blue is better.
Splawn Quickrod - Deserves much more attention.


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## budda (Jun 2, 2019)




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## gunch (Jun 2, 2019)

Spinedriver said:


> If you don't mind tracking down used amps, I used to have a Randall T2 and it's an absolute METAL machine.



I want one but it seems like every other person who I see gets one has a dud. I thought the whole draw to SS/Hybrid amps was that they were pretty hardy creatures


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## op1e (Jun 2, 2019)

^ A lotta people are dummies and don't put the right tube in the power buffer or think it's a SS amp and they never would have pre tubes go bad.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 2, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> Bogner Uberschall
> VHT Ultralead (or Deliverance)
> Splawn Quickrod (fantastic amps)
> 
> ...





-100

I couldn't disagree more. Especially with the 5150/6505 and Mesa Rectifiers. These 2 amps are the definition of the modern metal sound. I love Mesa Marks too, but the Rectifier is one of the quintessential amps that are the very foundation of the modern metal sound. Go try a new Multi-Watt Triple Rectifier if you haven't. It might change your opinion. Or maybe not.


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## Talmaci (Jun 2, 2019)

lul, if they where used by a lot of shitty bands all around the world doesn't mean they are good amps.
Rectifier became popular just because of endorsement and advertising campaign. Kids love rectifiers because they "idols" play rectifiers.
If so, then foundation of modern metal sound is SLO100. No? It's not modern?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 2, 2019)




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## budda (Jun 2, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> lul, if they where used by a lot of shitty bands all around the world doesn't mean they are good amps.
> Rectifier became popular just because of endorsement and advertising campaign. Kids love rectifiers because they "idols" play rectifiers.
> If so, then foundation of modern metal sound is SLO100. No? It's not modern?



No, rectos became popular also because they do a certain thing very well.

Clearly the recto hurt you in some way.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jun 2, 2019)

Rectum hurt via recto?


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## narad (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> If so, then foundation of modern metal sound is SLO100. No? It's not modern?



In the same way the Fender Bassman is the foundation of modern metal...


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

To understand Recto is gardage you should:
1. Play boutique amps NOT in small local store, but a couple of days at home/with band.
2. Grow up.

Rectifier is perfect to put it under Uberschall, to make it easier to turn its knobs.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

narad said:


> In the same way the Fender Bassman is the foundation of modern metal...



Of course


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

budda said:


> No, rectos became popular also because they do a certain thing very well.
> 
> Clearly the recto hurt you in some way.



They became popular because were popularized by a lot of bands, who were endorsed by Mesa. I don't know bands that were endorsed by Peavey (5150) but it would kill Mesa.
Krank also endorsed a lot of artists and became very popular in a couple of years. Right after Krank died everyone started to say about how shitty Kranks are. And they are really shitty amps. Kids were dreaming about Rectifiers because saw their idols playing them and because they DIDN'T know that there are little known qualitative boutique amps with greater sound. They just didn't understand what sound means, they just wanted to see chrome faceplace. Will repeat - Mark and Rectifier cabs are awesome.


----------



## narad (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> They became popular because were popularized by a lot of bands, who were endorsed by Mesa. I don't know bands that were endorsed by Peavey (5150) but it would kill Mesa.



I don't know where you get your facts, but mesa didn't endorse the thousands of artists that use(d) rectifiers. It's okay if you don't like them, but calling them bad amps makes you sound pretty ignorant.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

narad said:


> I don't know where you get your facts, but mesa didn't endorse the thousands of artists that use(d) rectifiers. It's okay if you don't like them, but calling them bad amps makes you sound pretty ignorant.



First, all the famous alternative metal bands.
Recommend me modern metal bands to listen that are using Rectifiers. It is really interesting.


----------



## budda (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> First, all the famous alternative metal bands.
> Recommend me modern metal bands to listen that are using Rectifiers. It is really interesting.



You seem to believe it's easy to get a mesa deal


----------



## prlgmnr (Jun 3, 2019)

Come on, Mesa are well known for making signature amps for every single John Petrucci that has ever asked for one


----------



## StevenC (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> there are little known qualitative boutique amps with greater sound.





Talmaci said:


> Diezels - No charisma, just qualitative amps.


What does this even mean?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR (Jun 3, 2019)

StevenC said:


> What does this even mean?



I look forward to it being explained. lol


----------



## lurè (Jun 3, 2019)

*Dead Heart in a Dead World guitar tone has entered the room*


----------



## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> Recommend me modern metal bands to listen that are using Rectifiers. It is really interesting.


----------



## gunch (Jun 3, 2019)

lurè said:


> *Dead Heart in a Dead World guitar tone has entered the room*


*Feeding the Abscess guitar tone has entered the room*


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 3, 2019)

Suicide Silence IIRC
Plus I can bet several modern metal bands are using Recto or 5150 patches in their modelers.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

The first person who gave real answer?


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## mnemonic (Jun 3, 2019)

John Browne of Monuments has a few videos on YouTube of his Recto, dunno if he has recorded any albums with them though.


----------



## gunch (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> The first person who gave real answer?



Car Bomb is the most CRUSH AND KILL band in existence and Greg has been using boosted rectos or modeled rectos his whole career


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jun 3, 2019)

I gotta give this dude credit for a fairly effective troll session.


----------



## budda (Jun 3, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I gotta give this dude credit for a fairly effective troll session.



Its given me something to do.


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## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

gunch said:


> Car Bomb is the most CRUSH AND KILL band in existence and Greg has been using boosted rectos or modeled rectos his whole career



Car Bomb is UNREAL. So heavy. And you can't say their tone isn't tight or modern. That stop/start shit they're on is bonkers.

I use a Multiwatt Triple and a Rivera Knucklehead. The Knucklehead provides the focus and 'tight' while the Recto, while not exactly set loose, provides the size. I'd had a couple people complement my tone that are prone to rig cork-sniffery.


----------



## LeftOurEyes (Jun 3, 2019)

internet experts


----------



## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

@LeftOurEyes how did you hack my webcam?!


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jun 3, 2019)

Best use of a Recto for heavy death metal riffage= JUNGLE ROT. 
Fck, even Krisiun live with a Recto straight up and just a wah pedal, they sound absolutely massive but clear.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jun 3, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Best use of a Recto for heavy death metal riffage= JUNGLE ROT.
> Fck, even Krisiun live with a Recto straight up and just a wah pedal, they sound absolutely massive but clear.


hell yeah, Jungle Rot doesn't get enough love. Good pummeling midwestern DM


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> To understand Recto is gardage you should:
> 1. Play boutique amps NOT in small local store, but a couple of days at home/with band.
> 2. Grow up.
> 
> Rectifier is perfect to put it under Uberschall, to make it easier to turn its knobs.





Disagree.

Here's some of the amps that I own and what I base my opinion on:

















A good Mesa Rectifier will stand side by side with any version of a Bogner Uberschall. And in many cases surpass it. I prefer a Rev C Dual, Rev F Triple, or a MW Triple Recto over any Uberschall version. I own these amps... not just tried them once or twice in a store... or read about them somewhere online and then regurgitate played out mis-information.

How about you? Let's see what you are basing your opinion on? Post up. Or... I think you know the rest.


----------



## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

There are a few amps that I love. Most are some form of hotrod Marshall. Like pre-peavey Budda (owned an SD45). Or Suhr PT100 or Hedgehog. I own a Multiwatt Recto and a Rivera Knucklehead. I have a shop near me that carries Carol-Ann, Friedman, Fuchs, Two-Rock and nearly every other boutique amp brand. They let me mix and match anything in the room and pin the amps. They're as curious as I am, and their clients are just as interested. I OWN the above two amps. And while the others I mentioned are great amps and have their sonic footprints, they suit the heavy thing better than the other boutique stuff I've played, save for the PT100. Its an absolute ravenous beast. I've been playing guitar for over 25 years. It isn't like I'm some beginner sans experience. I can make any amp work for my situation. But the ones I love and or own are the ones I find inspiring. Different animals altogether.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> First, all the famous alternative metal bands.
> Recommend me modern metal bands to listen that are using Rectifiers. It is really interesting.




In addition to all the bands mentioned so far...

Killswitch Engage: As Daylight Dies
Nightwish: Once
Sabaton: Carolus Rex


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

gunch said:


> Car Bomb


My neighbor's band with 6k subscribers on YouTube also uses Rectifiers and plays modern metal. Can they be mentioned here as a great example of a band using Rectifier? Don't think so. 

Jungle Rot, Nightwish, Sabaton - modern metal? 
Killswitch Engage used it mixed with SLO in studio. It was 2006 year. And they quickly switched to other manufacturers.


----------



## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Disagree.


I mentioned two factors. If so pay attention to the second one.

My opinion based on Bogner Uberschall Rev.2, Bogner Uberschall Rev.Blue; Splawn QR; VHT Deliverance; VHT Ultralead; 5150; 6505; 6505+; Krank Krankenstein; Krank Revolution; Mesa Rectifier 3ch. Mesa Rectifier Rev.F; Mesa Rectifier Rev.G; Mesa MarkV; Egnaters. Marshalls and Mid-gain amps don't mention; Diezel Herbert.
And all rectifiers were the most disappointing amps.



Wizard of Ozz said:


> A good Mesa Rectifier will stand side by side with any version of a Bogner Uberschall


lul, the second factor 100%
Try Rev.2.


----------



## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

The question isn't whether or not 6k subs on youtube makes you a reliable source. Its whether or not the amp works for a modern metal tone. That my friend is up to the person using the amp. I also don't consider KsE a great example considering nearly every album and tour has had a different setup. They're also Metalcore. A genre that has since generally fallen out of favor save for a few acts. They being one of them. When we're talking about current 'modern' bands, we're talking about the bands currently defining the sounds. AAL, Periphery, Monuments, Opeth, Devin Townsend (who STILL uses Rectos and has UNREAL tone). Artists are going to switch around to what inspires them currently. That doesn't make one thing bad and another good. Just different. What most of us here are saying, is that a Recto has been a mainstay in modern metal since it became publicly available in what was it, 93? It was on albums even before that as Hetfield, Thayil, and several others had prototypes made available to them in the studio.


----------



## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> I mentioned two factors. If so pay attention to the second one.
> 
> My opinion based on Bogner Uberschall Rev.2, Bogner Uberschall Rev.Blue; Splawn QR; VHT Deliverance; VHT Ultralead; 5150; 6505; 6505+; Krank Krankenstein; Krank Revolution; Mesa Rectifier 3ch. Mesa Rectifier Rev.F; Mesa Rectifier Rev.G; Mesa MarkV; Egnaters. Marshalls and Mid-gain amps don't mention; Diezel Herbert.
> And all rectifiers were the most disappointing amps.
> ...



I've played a Bogner Uber Rev. 2. I'll take my Recto over it any day. An Orange Rockerverb is the only thing I'd consider coming off of my Recto for. And that's because its a different sound. The question is, is it MY sound. The Recto mixed with the Knucklehead gets me there every time.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> My neighbor's band with 6k subscribers on YouTube also uses Rectifiers and plays modern metal. Can they be mentioned here as a great example of a band using Rectifier? Don't think so.
> 
> Jungle Rot, Nightwish, Sabaton - modern metal?
> Killswitch Engage used it mixed with SLO in studio. It was 2006 year. And they quickly switched to other manufacturers.




Cannibal Corpse
Nevermore
Behemoth
Delain
Suicide Silence
Fit For An Autopsy
Devin Townsend
...

and I forgot another big one: Richard Z. K. Rammstein. But I'm sure you'll say they are more folk-blues than metal.

Admit you are wrong, misinformed and move along now.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

That's what I was waiting for. Awesome list of MODERN metal bands.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> \
> My opinion based on Bogner Uberschall Rev.2, Bogner Uberschall Rev.Blue; Splawn QR; VHT Deliverance; VHT Ultralead; 5150; 6505; 6505+; Krank Krankenstein; Krank Revolution; Mesa Rectifier 3ch. Mesa Rectifier Rev.F; Mesa Rectifier Rev.G; Mesa MarkV; Egnaters. Marshalls and Mid-gain amps don't mention; Diezel Herbert.
> And all rectifiers were the most disappointing amps.





... still waiting on those rig pics? I have a feeling we'll be waiting forever. LOL.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> I'll take my Recto over it any day.



That's not a surprised, because I heard A LOT of negative opinions about Knuckleheads and Rockerverbs. That means that we just consider absolutely different sounds as perfect.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> ... still waiting on those rig pics? I have a feeling we'll be waiting forever. LOL.



Special for you my friend.
Amps that I have for the moment and that I didn't sell and will never sell.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> Special for you my friend.
> Amps that I have for the moment and that I didn't sell and will never sell.




You mentioned a lot of other stuff too? Sold it? Yeah... 

Anywho... you need to re-evaluate the capabilities of good properly dialed in Recto. I've had 3 Fryette Ultra-Leads that did nothing for me. So if you consider that a "great metal tone"... it is a non-starter, and we will agree to disagree.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

VHTs sound as they should only with VHT Cabs.


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## Talmaci (Jun 3, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> 've had 3 Fryette Ultra-Leads that did nothing for me. So if you consider that a "great metal tone"... it is a non-starter, and we will agree to disagree.



Second factor, you know what I mean.
That's not a surprise. VHTs are hard to play in comparison to COMPRESSED Rectifiers.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Talmaci said:


> VHTs sound as they should only with VHT Cabs.




Right... you mean like this:






Been there... done that. Still take a Recto over it.


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## B.M.F. (Jun 3, 2019)

Disgorge (from San Diego CA), Suffocation and Broken Hope (before Jeremy went all digital) are some bands which I have seen use Dual/Triple Rectifiers live before. It’s a very common metal back line amp. Terrence from Suffo stated that while it’s not his favorite for the thing they do; it’s still a nice amp. Different strokes.


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## protest (Jun 3, 2019)

How do we decide what modern metal is? Is there like a band start date cutoff?


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## mnemonic (Jun 3, 2019)

protest said:


> How do we decide what modern metal is? Is there like a band start date cutoff?



I think if they’re using a Recto, then it’s not modern metal.


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## cardinal (Jun 3, 2019)

protest said:


> How do we decide what modern metal is? Is there like a band start date cutoff?



I guess people use the term differently, but when I think of it, it's basically metal that comes after the Mick Mars/80's Slayer/Appetite for Destruction-type stuff. I think those tones are fairly characterized as "metal" but they are not really the same thing as something like what started churning out in the early '90s. I remember hearing Machine Head's Burn My Eyes and my mind was blown. I could not turn it up loud enough.

I know to a lot of you folks that's not "modern" but I guess I'm an old man who doesn't get out much.

Has there been a big seismic shift since then in terms of metal tone? Going from Appetite for Destruction to Burn My Eyes ('87 to '94 or so?) is a huge change. 

I'd be interested to hear examples of what someone might consider a big shift since the advent of the boosted 5150/Recto.


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## Smoked Porter (Jun 3, 2019)

It also gets weird if you're just talking about guitar sound, like any of the last several Testament and Exodus albums. Classic bands, modern production. The Gathering still holds up as one of the best for metal guitar tone and production. Actually the best, imo anyway.

Edit- also worth noting, that album was a recto.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jun 3, 2019)

I think Post Meshuggah metal bands was a big shift. Triplets into dry sounding amps that are (too) tight. I would consider that a new sound. 

But yeah, Modern Metal is metal past that 80s sound.


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## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

Soldanos were the 80's thing. Rectos and 5150s are where most amp manufacturers would say that Modern Metal tone started. Modern tone stacks in amp modelers tend to have a dip in the mids like a Recto. There were other people doing things. Like Jose modding marshalls. Randall's solid state stuff. But a lot of those were used for that hair metal sound. Rectos were on the album that broke metal into the mainstream though. 

Rectos are super saturated. I wouldn't call my Rivera saturated or compressed at all comparatively speaking. Its way more focused. However, I've learned the power of speakers and cabs. A good speaker/cab/amp combination can completely change the whole set up of an amp. Rectos sound good on a 412. The sound UNREAL on a good 112. Listened to some demos of the Uberschall Rev. 2 in comparison to a Recto just to remind myself of how they sound. They really just sound to me like a Recto with the mids in a slightly different place. If we're debating the Recto vs the SLO or 5150, its literally the difference in where something is located in the power section and the values of a couple resistors. The basic design is literally a copy of the SLO for both of them. Rivera was actually the FIRST high gain dude if we're keeping score though.


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## Thaeon (Jun 3, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I think Post Meshuggah metal bands was a big shift. Triplets into dry sounding amps that are (too) tight. I would consider that a new sound.
> 
> But yeah, Modern Metal is metal past that 80s sound.



Its worth noting that Meshuggah have used Rectos in the studio as well... So...

That post Meshuggah tone is TOO dry for me. I also don't play that sort of Metal either. Love Meshuggah. But I'd be more in the Cult of Luna, Pelican, High on Fire column...


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Soldanos were the 80's thing. Rectos and 5150s are where most amp manufacturers would say that Modern Metal tone started. Modern tone stacks in amp modelers tend to have a dip in the mids like a Recto. There were other people doing things. Like Jose modding marshalls. Randall's solid state stuff. But a lot of those were used for that hair metal sound. Rectos were on the album that broke metal into the mainstream though.
> 
> Rectos are super saturated. I wouldn't call my Rivera saturated or compressed at all comparatively speaking. Its way more focused. However, I've learned the power of speakers and cabs. A good speaker/cab/amp combination can completely change the whole set up of an amp. Rectos sound good on a 412. The sound UNREAL on a good 112. Listened to some demos of the Uberschall Rev. 2 in comparison to a Recto just to remind myself of how they sound. They really just sound to me like a Recto with the mids in a slightly different place. If we're debating the Recto vs the SLO or 5150, its literally the difference in where something is located in the power section and the values of a couple resistors. The basic design is literally a copy of the SLO for both of them. Rivera was actually the FIRST high gain dude if we're keeping score though.




The problem with the SLO is that is sucks dead donkey d!ck for metal. Even boosted. Too loose, dark, flabby... until you turn it up to ear-bleed volume... then it thins out too much in the wrong places and the mids are not in the right spot either. The "depth mod" they offer is useless too. It should be called the "Mud Mod"... more or less mud.

There is a lot of history showing that people "borrowed" a lot of the design for the Recto and 5150 preamp circuit from the Soldano SLO... but both of these amps sound nothing like the SLO. Not even close at all. So I think too many people read in to that part of amp building history too much.

The SLO is not an amp that excels at modern metal. '80s classic rock or hair-metal... yep.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 3, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Its worth noting that Meshuggah have used Rectos in the studio as well... So...
> 
> That post Meshuggah tone is TOO dry for me. I also don't play that sort of Metal either. Love Meshuggah. But I'd be more in the Cult of Luna, Pelican, High on Fire column...




Good point here. Meshuggah are about as modern as it gets. And they are long time Recto abusers.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 3, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Good point here. Meshuggah are about as modern as it gets. And they are long time Recto abusers.


When the used Axe FXs, they used the Recto models, and had a special model in the Axe II based on the original Axe I Recto model. Kinda like when Metallica asked to bring back the pre-Quantum Mark IIC+ onto the Axe FX II as the Mark IIC++ (seriously misleading as fuck with that model name).

Even when they had the POD X3/Vetta, I THINK they used the Big Bottom, which is preeetty much a Triple Recto.

EDIT: Actually found an old interview where they specifically said they tweaked their Vettas to sound like a Dual Recto.


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## Meeotch (Jun 3, 2019)

You know...this thread has me gassing for a Recto. Can anyone compare one of the new Multiwatt Rectos to a Herbert?


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## gunch (Jun 3, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Rectos sound good on a 412. The sound UNREAL on a good 112.



I would like to know more about this and just cabs in general


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## mnemonic (Jun 4, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When the used Axe FXs, they used the Recto models, and had a special model in the Axe II based on the original Axe I Recto model. Kinda like when Metallica asked to bring back the pre-Quantum Mark IIC+ onto the Axe FX II as the Mark IIC++ (seriously misleading as fuck with that model name).
> 
> Even when they had the POD X3/Vetta, I THINK they used the Big Bottom, which is preeetty much a Triple Recto.
> 
> EDIT: Actually found an old interview where they specifically said they tweaked their Vettas to sound like a Dual Recto.



They used rectos or Recto-sounding models for so long that I was pretty surprised when the fortin meshuggah turned out to just be a Jose mod Marshall. Maybe frederick’s tastes changed.


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## viifox (Jun 4, 2019)

Not modern metal, but how can you not love this tone? #rectos4ever!


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## Shask (Jun 4, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> They used rectos or Recto-sounding models for so long that I was pretty surprised when the fortin meshuggah turned out to just be a Jose mod Marshall. Maybe frederick’s tastes changed.


I was surprised at that Meshuggah amp also. At first I thought it would be some sort of single channel Recto/JCM800 hybrid design.


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## protest (Jun 4, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I guess people use the term differently, but when I think of it, it's basically metal that comes after the Mick Mars/80's Slayer/Appetite for Destruction-type stuff. I think those tones are fairly characterized as "metal" but they are not really the same thing as something like what started churning out in the early '90s. I remember hearing Machine Head's Burn My Eyes and my mind was blown. I could not turn it up loud enough.
> 
> I know to a lot of you folks that's not "modern" but I guess I'm an old man who doesn't get out much.
> 
> ...



I was referring to the other dude, but it's good to get back to the actual point of the thread 

Judging from what you've posted here and on RT I would say look into:

VHT Sig-X
Mesa Marks
Bogner XTC
KSR Juno

Any of those will work for what you're doing, it just depends on your taste and what tone you're most picky about. Are you most picky about your crunch tone or are you more critical of the high gain sound? 

Sig-X fits the bill nicely and is around $1,000 used so not insane. It's dry and tight for the low tunings and has a great crunch channel. Clean is ok, some people love it but I don't. 
*Pro*: Does everything you want. *Con*: Not for everyone

Mark V will probably give you the best crunch out of the Mark series but the lead will be lacking compared to the others. Mark IV would work if you boost R2 but it'll be something you'll have to mess around with more than the V.
*Pro*: Can do everything you want. *Con*: It could be a struggle to get it there

Bogner XTC...if you like Bogner then I don't need to say anything about the Blue channel. The Red I would run the Boost off and then use a boost pedal for the lower tuning. 
*Pro*: Clean and Crunch will be great *Con*: Shared EQ on the gain channels might make it a struggle for the low tuning but there's ways around it

KSR Juno is going to be the most expensive because they're new. You can run the Clip mode or Crunch mode and get your crunch tone, but it's not really a Marshall type of crunch. The regular Lead is going to be like a modded Recto where you chop off the highs and lows so you don't get the hairy/fizzy top end or extreme bottom end. Smoother, tighter, less raw, more refined. Would probably still need a boost for the low tuning but just a standard boost not like a Fortin Grind or something extreme.
*Pro*: Could be perfect since you like Rectos *Con*: Expensive, might not be your kind of crunch


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## Deadpool_25 (Jun 4, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I guess people use the term differently, but when I think of it, it's basically metal that comes after the Mick Mars/80's Slayer/Appetite for Destruction-type stuff. I think those tones are fairly characterized as "metal" but they are not really the same thing as something like what started churning out in the early '90s. I remember hearing Machine Head's Burn My Eyes and my mind was blown. I could not turn it up loud enough.
> 
> I know to a lot of you folks that's not "modern" but I guess I'm an old man who doesn't get out much.
> 
> ...



Yeah I personally don’t think of “modern metal tone” as so much of an inception date thing, but as more of a tonal characteristic thing. From that perspective, I basically think of modern metal tone as heavily-palm-muted and downtuned (sometimes drastically) guitars with a boosted high gain amp like 5150, recto, etc.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jun 4, 2019)

Man, I wish the recto had a tight knob.


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## budda (Jun 4, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man, I wish the recto had a tight knob.



You mean the gain, bass and rectifier controls?


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## Wizard of Ozz (Jun 4, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man, I wish the recto had a tight knob.




... stick a Maxon OD808 upfront. Instant tight knob.


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## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2019)

Too bad I just moved from NOVA because I have most of the amps you mentioned and you could have A/B’d them lol. That’s the best way to figure out. You can’t really figure out tone from internet opinions. Plus I can EQ an amp one way and you’ll hate it and then tweak some knobs and make you fall in love. In my opinion, many of the internet opinions you’ll get are either someone restating someone else’s opinion (because they’ve never played said amp), or because they’ve heard it sound like XYZ, or or they didn’t like it. Well, do you have the same exact tone appreciation they do? And do they know how to properly dial in an amp? And did they? Or did they try one guitar with one set of pickups (and maybe pedals?) and with the settings they thought should sound good... and it didn’t? 

Anywho, just my thoughts. I hated active pickups and had hated MIK guitars due to Peavey ones being crap back in the day. Also heard terrible things about Engl amps especially the Fireball. Then I bought a MIK Schecter Loomis with active pickups and a Engl FB100. And it is a 10/10 for me. I have a Mayones Regina 7 Custom and a Herbert Mk2 (maybe 4x the price?) and everyone that ever came over and A/B’d them agreed the Schecter/Fireball was better.

So try and find a place like Axe Palace, DCGL, Sam Ash, or a good GC and experiment. I played a Budda SD80 and after 10 seconds I would have sold almost every amp I own to have it.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Jun 4, 2019)

budda said:


> You mean the gain, bass and rectifier controls?


Need a pre-gain bass knob


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 4, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Too bad I just moved from NOVA because I have most of the amps you mentioned and you could have A/B’d them lol. That’s the best way to figure out. You can’t really figure out tone from internet opinions. Plus I can EQ an amp one way and you’ll hate it and then tweak some knobs and make you fall in love. In my opinion, many of the internet opinions you’ll get are either someone restating someone else’s opinion (because they’ve never played said amp), or because they’ve heard it sound like XYZ, or or they didn’t like it. Well, do you have the same exact tone appreciation they do? And do they know how to properly dial in an amp? And did they? Or did they try one guitar with one set of pickups (and maybe pedals?) and with the settings they thought should sound good... and it didn’t?
> 
> Anywho, just my thoughts. I hated active pickups and had hated MIK guitars due to Peavey ones being crap back in the day. Also heard terrible things about Engl amps especially the Fireball. Then I bought a MIK Schecter Loomis with active pickups and a Engl FB100. And it is a 10/10 for me. I have a Mayones Regina 7 Custom and a Herbert Mk2 (maybe 4x the price?) and everyone that ever came over and A/B’d them agreed the Schecter/Fireball was better.
> 
> So try and find a place like Axe Palace, DCGL, Sam Ash, or a good GC and experiment. I played a Budda SD80 and after 10 seconds I would have sold almost every amp I own to have it.


the budda sd80 haunts me. I keep telling myself that I don't need a hot rodded marshall esque amp, but then I listen to clips of that, the ceriatone chupacabra or the lil fokker and start looking for one again


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## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> the budda sd80 haunts me. I keep telling myself that I don't need a hot rodded marshall esque amp, but then I listen to clips of that, the ceriatone chupacabra or the lil fokker and start looking for one again



Sorry to tell you... but...

The Budda is SO MUCH MORE than a modded Marshall. It is it’s own unique beast. 

I’m gonna say it. It is honestly in the same category as a Dumble. There. I said it. There’s a reason why Bonamassa rocked it. I don’t care if you like his music or not. Dude knows gear and has good taste. The amp is so good if John Mayer played it, he’d leave with it on his airplane seat. Now excuse me I have some corks to sniff. Lol

Seriously though. I rocked one chord through a $150 used 1990 Peavey Tracer and I chased away everyone at GC that tried to scoop it before I could. It’s perfect at rock and dirty country, yet throw a boost in front and it chuggs with thunderous volume that not even a 5150 can touch.


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## cardinal (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks @USMarine75 ! The Budda Superdrive does seem cool. As I understand it, it's the same preamp used in the Friedman Naked and Naylor Superdrive. The three amps use different power sections though, I've read. The Friedman and the Naylor get rave reviews.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 4, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Sorry to tell you... but...
> 
> The Budda is SO MUCH MORE than a modded Marshall. It is it’s own unique beast.
> 
> ...


I barely dabble in rock/country/blues so I don't really care about its capabilities in that regard. Bonamassa and Mayer are chasing VERRRRRRRY different tones than I am lol. 
Does it need a boost or eq to turn it into a metal monster?


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## Thaeon (Jun 4, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> the budda sd80 haunts me. I keep telling myself that I don't need a hot rodded marshall esque amp, but then I listen to clips of that, the ceriatone chupacabra or the lil fokker and start looking for one again



Used to own a Budda SD45. That amp was ferocious. Calling it a hotrodded Marshall is doing it a disservice.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 4, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Used to own a Budda SD45. That amp was ferocious. Calling it a hotrodded Marshall is doing it a disservice.


Then what would you describe the budda superdrive as being most similar to?


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## cardinal (Jun 4, 2019)

I believe a Friedman Naked was the main amp on A Perfect Circle's Mer de Noms, so the SuperDrive might sound something along those lines.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 4, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I believe a Friedman Naked was the main amp on A Perfect Circle's Mer de Noms, so the SuperDrive might sound something along those lines.


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## gunch (Jun 4, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


>




Actually the first clip sounds pretty rad


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## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks @KnightBrolaire you saved me the trouble of posting. 

+1


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## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I barely dabble in rock/country/blues so I don't really care about its capabilities in that regard. Bonamassa and Mayer are chasing VERRRRRRRY different tones than I am lol.
> Does it need a boost or eq to turn it into a metal monster?



If you engage the modern setting it will do up to As I Lay Dying - Confined type tones perfectly (IMO). But it takes a boost well. 

Btw I’ve been struggling to compare it. But maybe a SLO type tone but maybe more open sounding? Definitely as loud or louder. It dominates all other amps in the room even my Herbert and Soldano. 

I also have the matching cab with the Budda Phat speakers which are voiced darker than v30s. I haven’t tried it with any of my other cabs yet. 

Also, keep in mind they are all voiced differently. The 18, 30, 45, and 80 all have different voicings. It’s not just wattage.

Most importantly: I’m a Peavey guy. But. Buy pre-Peavey. Look for the Budda guy on the faceplate. They changed the circuit (fact) and a lot of people that A/B’d both say the Peavey version sounds good too but it’s tubby sounding. Rounded low end. Not good for metal.


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## prlgmnr (Jun 5, 2019)

Good news, there's a pre-Peavey Superdrive 80 on Ebay right now for just over £1000, bad news, it's in Russia.


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## Thaeon (Jun 5, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Then what would you describe the budda superdrive as being most similar to?



The clean channel is more AC30 than anything else. Its got hot rodded Marshall in it. But I'd say its more generally British in character than Marshall specifically. There's some Orange in its voicing as well since the mids are shifted lower. The overdrive does have some of that Marshall rasp, but its smoother. I've played it next to a BE100. The Friedman has that Marshall rasp and a bit of the SLO thing happening. The Budda doesn't have that. I'd put it closer to the Dumble/Trainwreck thing than just a hot rodded Marshall. You can get JCM like sounds from it, sure. But, it still has more focus to it. It literally DOES. NOT. SAG. The 45 somehow appears louder than the 80. I had it in a band with a dude that had two 100 watt heads (XXX and a Verellen Loucks) on two v30 loaded 412 cabs. He could barely keep up with my single Budda 412. Tiny bit looser with a tube rectifier. Barely noticeable though. Boosted like in the video above, its a modern metal monster.


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## BigViolin (Jun 5, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> the budda sd80 haunts me. I keep telling myself that I don't need a hot rodded marshall esque amp, but then I listen to clips of that, the ceriatone chupacabra or the lil fokker and start looking for one again



Have you had a Splawn in the house? I’d be really curious to your thoughts on a QR.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 5, 2019)

BigViolin said:


> Have you had a Splawn in the house? I’d be really curious to your thoughts on a QR.


nah not yet. splawns intrigue me but i was told the quick rod or nitro(i forgot which) has a similar dry vibe to the UL, which I really don't like.


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## budda (Jun 5, 2019)

I only tried one budda (40? 18?) and it didn't wow me but at the time I was mostly about 5150 tones.

If I ever seen an 80 in store, I'll plug in.


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