# Guitar Cabs - Why does the 4x12 I use sound sh*tty at practice?



## Imbrium998 (Oct 18, 2012)

Here is a question to those more experienced with live sound. Here is my scenario...

I bought a Diezel VH4 earlier this year. I have just become really head over heels happy with my sound in a "bedroom" practice setting. Using a Mesa 2x12 closed back cab, Vintage 30 loaded. I bought the cab new and broke the cab in and have been the original owner of both.
Now...I practice at a "rental space" where there is communal gear. Over the past few months, I have been given various cabs to plug into (I just bring my head and guitars with me to cut down on the amount of stuff I need to bring along)
I have played on a Marshall M series 4x12 and a Peavey 4x12 lately, and I find that as I turn up the head to match the others in the band to come to band practice levels, I loose the richness and fundamental sound that I have come to expect. All the qualities that I truly love to hear between the Diezel and the Aftermath loaded guitar seem to get watered down at higher volumes. I am a high gain player, but I feel like I lose all the benefit of tight roar that I really want.

I start off by saying that I seriously doubt any of the cabs I use are loaded with V30s....could that be what is going on?

I know that there is a big element that I cannot put my thumb down on with not knowing what these cab specs are, but


----------



## bob123 (Oct 18, 2012)

Shit speakers = shit sound. I can speak from direct experience that that marshall cab is a collosal turd.


----------



## Larrikin666 (Oct 18, 2012)

The biggest thing is the speakers in the cabs and their rating. In your bedroom, you probably aren't pushing a crazy about of power to your cab, so you don't get any speaker breakup. Some people like the sound when speakers break up, but most metal players don't.


----------



## theo (Oct 18, 2012)

I find my 4x12 to be extremely directional, if I'm right I front of it the sound at practice is great. Move to the side or further away and it becomes muddy and undefined. I don't stress really. It's always got a mic on it at gigs.


----------



## MrPowers (Oct 18, 2012)

In short Marshall M series cabs and Peavey cabs are going to be noticeably lower quality in build and components (speakers and wiring) than your Mesa. If you put Vintage 30's in them it would help, but they are still always going to be a lower quality cab and more than likely will never give you the sound you are looking for. There are a lot more factors that go into this too such as size (M series cabs are smaller than normal 4x12's), whether or not the cab is a slant or straight cab, etc... Sometimes it's the little things that make the difference.

So if you want to retain your sound, take your Mesa. Playing through a good 2x12 is better than playing through a mediocre 4x12. Your Mesa will be more than loud enough. The issue then becomes placing it or angling it to where you can hear it... but I'm sure you can come up with something.


----------



## Loomer (Oct 21, 2012)

MrPowers said:


> In short Marshall M series cabs and Peavey cabs are going to be noticeably lower quality in build and components (speakers and wiring) than your Mesa. If you put Vintage 30's in them it would help, but they are still always going to be a lower quality cab and more than likely will never give you the sound you are looking for. There are a lot more factors that go into this too such as size (M series cabs are smaller than normal 4x12's), whether or not the cab is a slant or straight cab, etc... Sometimes it's the little things that make the difference.
> 
> So if you want to retain your sound, take your Mesa. Playing through a good 2x12 is better than playing through a mediocre 4x12. Your Mesa will be more than loud enough. The issue then becomes placing it or angling it to where you can hear it... but I'm sure you can come up with something.



Duct tape the Mesa onto the ceiling. Death from above mofos...


----------



## MrPowers (Oct 21, 2012)

True story! Duct tape fixes all!


----------



## feraledge (Oct 21, 2012)

Those cabs you're playing through are simply not going to compare to the Mesa/V30s. Even V30s in a poorly constructed cab will still sound like garbage. 
A practice space that I used to use had communal shit cabs and I'd carry my Marshall 1960BV up two tiny flights of stairs every time just so I didn't have to use them. If my amp sounds like shit, I'm going to play like shit.


----------



## purpledc (Oct 21, 2012)

I have a mesa cab and evh 5153. I hear a lot about guys saying that their amps sound better the more you crank them up. I dont feel that way about any amp ive played. For me there is ALWAYS a line in the sand where after a certain point you just start to lose all the magic and sparkle. I think older vintage amps benefit more from being cranked because they need to be to achieve a certain sound. But for me modern high gain heads dont need to go there. I would much rather have my amplifier at a moderate level and mic it up and run through a PA if I need more volume than crank my amp. I think you have more control over your tone that way.


----------



## feraledge (Oct 21, 2012)

I think the sweet spot is 50% volume. If you fave pre- and post- volumes, you can pump the power amp while pulling back on the pre-amp to get that effect, but if you don't prefer the sound of pushed tubes then that's just your preference. 
I personally wish that my playing and tone around hour three of full volume practice could be permanent.


----------



## WarriorOfMetal (Oct 21, 2012)

You're running a $4500 amp through cheapshit cabs, what do you expect? A lot of people underestimate the effect a cab has on the overall sound.


----------



## EOT (Oct 21, 2012)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> You're running a $4500 amp through cheapshit cabs, what do you expect? A lot of people underestimate the effect a cab has on the overall sound.



^ Yep.


----------



## WarriorOfMetal (Oct 21, 2012)

Just re-read the OP - my suggestion would be to take your 2x12 to the rehearsal studios...maybe get an amp stand to set the cab on. Alternatively, buy a Mesa 4x12 and take that to practice, and you should get the same basic tone as with your 2x12.


----------



## xCaptainx (Oct 24, 2012)

shitty cabs are shitty cabs. Your mesa 2x12 will be just as loud and sound even better than those 4x12. 

Also no one has really touched on the fact that you need different settings for different volumes. A 'scooped' tone sounds good at home, as you don't have an entire band to worry about, mix wise. 

At practise you have
- other instruments to sit in a mix with
- speaker breakup from loud volume
- poweramp breakup and compression from pushing them at loud volumes 

Generally you can dial out your lows and push your mids more, that'll really get you cutting through and sounding better at loud volumes. 

But yeah, take your 2x12. It'll be just as loud and sound much better.


----------



## petereanima (Oct 24, 2012)

The cab is as important as the amp.

Even more when you play a Diezel - my Herbert is a BITCH when it comes to low quality cabs. Also, your ears get used very fast to the extreme awesomeness of an amazing setup - everything "less" will sound annoying to you.


----------



## Adeamus (Oct 24, 2012)

petereanima said:


> The cab is as important as the amp.



I would even argue the cab is more important then the amp. If you plug a marshall MG head into a Mesa 4x12 and you can, with enough tweeking, get an acceptable sound.

Flipside, taking a Deizel and running it into a pignose. Probably not gonna work.


----------



## EOT (Oct 24, 2012)

petereanima said:


> The cab is as important as the amp.
> 
> Even more when you play a Diezel - my Herbert is a BITCH when it comes to low quality cabs. Also, your ears get used very fast to the extreme awesomeness of an amazing setup - everything "less" will sound annoying to you.



Amen to that. It took me awhile to get my Herbert the cab it needed to sound great. Ironically, the worst cab was a Mesa OS 4x12.


----------



## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Oct 24, 2012)

I always try to pick rehearsal studios based on the guitar and bass cabs, as bringing your own takes the fun out. Less heavy lifting the better.

The single best improvement to a bands sound is bass cabinetry and speakers. I bought a Mesa walkabout rig to a bass gig, that setup made more of a difference than my Recto setup.

Most studios have better guitar gear than bass gear, so it could well be that which is letting the side down.

It's important to set up the equipment in rehearsal rooms in a sensible way before you start, otherwise they can be poor sounding and depressing places to be, as often they are poorly lit subterranean hell holes.

Once you've tidied up, made space, aligned your cabinets and setup all your gear, play quietly, have the drummer smash around a bit and set the vocals in the PA to balance. Have the bass player join in and then work on the guitar volumes (clean, rythmn and lead). The better the overall balance the better it will sound.

Setting up amps just as you would at a gig and facing it will sound better, too.

Laptops can be really helpful, too, when inserted into the PA, for mixing, lyrics and what have you.

Make sure your bandmates co-operate with the programme while you are working on developing the sounds of amps etc. Can be a pain when people won't shut up making noise or blasting amps/drums while your head is by the cab. 

Also, rehearsals don't need to be apocalyptically loud!


----------



## Kryss (Nov 1, 2012)

do not ever skimp on a good cab. atm i only have a genz benz gflex 2x12. i used a mesa recto 2x12 on stage for years with a line 6 >> bbe >> peavey 50/50 power amp in most clubs/venues. got a great tone for the most part and just had the sound guy mic it once i found a good blend of power/post distortion. i only had a car for a long time and it fit in the car with my 3-4 guitars i brought every show. as far as guitar cabs go the only good ones i'd trust would be mesa 4x12, genz benz gflex, or some peavey sheffield built cabs. peavey used to have some nice sounding clear sounding sheffields back in the day. i've never actually used line6 cabs before so i can't comment on them. if you have the coin though i'd recommend genz benz or mesa recto cabs.


----------



## Iamatlas (Nov 28, 2012)

bob123 said:


> Shit speakers = shit sound. I can speak from direct experience that that marshall cab is a collosal turd.


 
Lol - Made my day. Being the owner of one - I can whole-heartedly agree!!


----------



## ShadowAMD (Nov 28, 2012)

I bought a mesa and engl 4X12 and a Harley Benton 2X12 for gigs.. I ended up using the HB quite a lot on recording, sounds fucking A in my humble opinion..  Best £160.00 I spent, but didn't like being pushed too hard.. Ended up using the 4X12 Engl for live gigs and downsized to a roadster 2X12 for the studio, but use either that or the HB.. Sounds good.


----------



## nothingleft09 (Dec 3, 2012)

I personally use an Avatar 212 with Celestion Classic Lead 80's. I prefer my 212 over 412's honestly. Try taking your cab and like everyone else has said get it on a stand so you can hear it. Will make a world of difference.


----------

