# Remember Jackson Custom Selects? Well you can Get A Soloist 7 Now...



## Church2224 (Jan 24, 2014)

Jackson Custom Select, the semi-custom line up for the Jackson Custom Shop that allows you to get a custom Jackson for cheaper, now has a 7 string Soloist


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## SkullCrusher (Jan 24, 2014)

Delicious!


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## possumkiller (Jan 24, 2014)

Well it's about fvcking time isn't it


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh ..... How much? Just one, or both of my legs? I'll need to keep my arms to play the damn thing.


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## cardinal (Jan 24, 2014)

Alright, this has me interested. How does it work? Is there an option sheet? A deadline for submitting the order?


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## Steve-Om (Jan 24, 2014)

definitely interested in hearing how it works...a 7 string Soloist in white? oh yes...


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## Church2224 (Jan 24, 2014)

cardinal said:


> Alright, this has me interested. How does it work? Is there an option sheet? A deadline for submitting the order?



Custom selects are Semi Custom Jacksons and you can get an order sheet through any USA Jackson dealers. This particular is a run of ten they did, they do special runs every year.

If they did a run of Custom select 7s, I am sure there will be options like maple boards, finishes, hardware color, ect. that you can order to personalize it.


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## cardinal (Jan 24, 2014)

^ oh, so the run is already done and they all look like that one in the picture? That's cool, but not enough to get my wallet out.


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## Church2224 (Jan 24, 2014)

cardinal said:


> ^ oh, so the run is already done and they all look like that one in the picture? That's cool, but not enough to get my wallet out.



That is just this particular run. If you want one made to your specs, talk to a Jackson dealer and you can pick options like Finish, fretboard wood, fret wire, pickups, ect. Custom selects are Semi Customs, they just do certain runs each year to show off that they can do.


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## djpharoah (Jan 24, 2014)

Just got back from NAMM and that's what picked my interest. Def getting one of these because it had a perfectly sized headstock and full size sharkies


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## Black Mamba (Jan 24, 2014)

Church2224 said:


> That is just this particular run. If you want one made to your specs, talk to a Jackson dealer and you can pick options like Finish, fretboard wood, fret wire, pickups, ect. Custom selects are Semi Customs, they just do certain runs each year to show off that they can do.



I have the new Custom Select options menu, and the 7 string option is under the masterbuilt only options.


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## Church2224 (Jan 24, 2014)

Black Mamba said:


> I have the new Custom Select options menu, and the 7 string option is under the masterbuilt only options.



Wait really? Well disregard what I said. I was hoping this would be something more legitimate than that.


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## wannabguitarist (Jan 24, 2014)

Black Mamba said:


> I have the new Custom Select options menu, and the 7 string option is under the *masterbuilt* only options.



Any estimate on how much that would run?


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## Blasphemer (Jan 24, 2014)

Holy crap I want that.


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## DavidLopezJr (Jan 24, 2014)

wannabguitarist said:


> Any estimate on how much that would run?


This. Anyone know if they would do a SL1-7?

EDIT: I'm either extremely happen or extremely disappointed based on this masterbuilt stuff


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## possumkiller (Jan 24, 2014)

Black Mamba said:


> I have the new Custom Select options menu, and the 7 string option is under the masterbuilt only options.


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## djpharoah (Jan 24, 2014)

It's looking like price wise it might still be close to what most CS7s were... however if the wait is the3-4mo that most USA Select customs are taking to make it might be worth it.


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## jahosy (Jan 24, 2014)

djpharoah said:


> Just got back from NAMM and that's what picked my interest. Def getting one of these because it had a perfectly sized headstock and full size sharkies



Awesome news if they can get their in-line 7 string headstock to proportion


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## JoeyBTL (Jan 24, 2014)

Did they add any other new options?


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## rg401 (Jan 25, 2014)

Why only soloist 7? what's with the kelly shape guys


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## Black Mamba (Jan 27, 2014)

Good news everyone! I heard back from a dealer today, and you can get a Custom Select 7 string SL2H! (3-4 month ETA)


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## DavidLopezJr (Jan 27, 2014)

Black Mamba said:


> Good news everyone! I heard back from a dealer today, and you can get a Custom Select 7 string SL2H! (3-4 month ETA)


Can you post details on prices and options?


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## Black Mamba (Jan 27, 2014)

DavidLopezJr said:


> Can you post details on prices and options?



New Custom Select options include:

- SL2H-7
- RR24
- Hardtail Option (not available on a Dinky)
- New pickup configurations (1 Hum, H-S, H-S-S)
- Mahogany body wood and neck wood options
- AT1 headstock and Reverse AT1 headstock (like the Broderick)
- Flame Maple or Birdseye Maple fretboard options
- Reverse Sharkfins
- Black binding
- Locking tuners
- Straplocks
- Direct mount pickups
- Graphite Reinforced necks

As for price, the dealer said at the moment he doesn't have the new price list, but was told it went up a little from last year.


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## Overtone (Jan 27, 2014)

Wow! A lot of sweet new options... I am really psyched about the fretboard woods!


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## Letuchy (Jan 28, 2014)

OMG!!! what is the price? 2000? 3000? dollars?


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## Samark (Jan 28, 2014)

Jackson select 7 for $3500-4000?? Where do I send the money?


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## Pikka Bird (Jan 28, 2014)

Is there an option for a Floyd rout that I can't stick my entire head into? 


...


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## sly (Jan 31, 2014)

The list of options have been updated for custom select on Jackson website, and I didn't see SL2H7. It's listed as a masterbuild only option.


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## Church2224 (Jan 31, 2014)

sly said:


> The list of options have been updated for custom select on Jackson website, and I didn't see SL2H7. It's listed as a masterbuild only option.



It has been verified that while it is not on the option sheet it is/ will be a Custom Select Option. Black Mamba Confirmed it as he said earleir in the thread. 

The Jackson Website is always lacking too.


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## infernalservice (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah the order form is listing it as a master built option. I think the msrp on the up charge alone was $1700 or 1800. I saw the form last week though so don't hold me to those numbers.


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## feraledge (Feb 6, 2014)

Music Zoo has a used Masterbuilt SL2H-7 for sale right now, pics are relevant.


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## 7slinger (Feb 6, 2014)

feraledge said:


> Music Zoo has a used Masterbuilt SL2H-7 for sale right now



$2399, listed as 27" scale


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## djpharoah (Feb 6, 2014)

^ That SL2H-7 is from the run I started a few years back. It's 25.5" and is a great price for the guitar. It's been used but now the value is a lot lower.

Curious to see the price for one of these Select Soloist 7s - time to talk to a dealer.


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## wannabguitarist (Feb 8, 2014)

I really want to buy that black SL2H but I need a ....ing car


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## WestOfSeven (Apr 28, 2014)

Is this actually a thing? 

I called a dealer and got told I'd have to get a full custom. I'd rather not wait two years.


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## groverj3 (Apr 29, 2014)

WestOfSeven said:


> Is this actually a thing?
> 
> I called a dealer and got told I'd have to get a full custom. I'd rather not wait two years.



Which dealer? In my experience not all dealers are really "in the know." I've heard about reversed sharkfins (also not on the order sheet) and a few other things. The dealer I have my custom select ordered through told me "no" on that, but there was a guy on JCFonline.com that definitely ordered a custom select with them.

I would talk to Matt at Matt's Music. They seem to be the go-to store to get custom Jackson/Charvel stuff through.


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## Black Mamba (Apr 29, 2014)

It looks like it really depends on which dealer you talk to. I was told by a dealer that you could get a Custom Select SL2H-7, as well as reverse sharkfins. Here's a Custom Select Dinky at Andertons Music with reverse sharkfins: *Link to the guitar with more pictures*


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## groverj3 (Apr 29, 2014)

I've definitely heard that they will do a few things that aren't on the sheet, but my dealer was adamant about them not doing reversed inlays, etc. I just stuck with that dealer because they were local and the Jackson guy there and I have a good rapport.

If someone wants to contact Matt, I'm sure they could get to the bottom of this easily. Matt's Music is the go-to shop for lots of Jackson custom shop questions.


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## wannabguitarist (Apr 29, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> I've definitely heard that they will do a few things that aren't on the sheet, but my dealer was adamant about them not doing reversed inlays, etc. I just stuck with that dealer because they were local and the Jackson guy there and I have a good rapport.
> 
> If someone wants to contact Matt, I'm sure they could get to the bottom of this easily. Matt's Music is the go-to shop for lots of Jackson custom shop questions.



24.75 scale? I would love a "modern" fusion


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## cardinal (Apr 29, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> I've definitely heard that they will do a few things that aren't on the sheet, but my dealer was adamant about them not doing reversed inlays, etc. I just stuck with that dealer because they were local and the Jackson guy there and I have a good rapport.
> 
> If someone wants to contact Matt, I'm sure they could get to the bottom of this easily. Matt's Music is the go-to shop for lots of Jackson custom shop questions.



Another +1 for Matt at Matt's Music. I custom ordered a guitar from him a few years ago. I'm a real pain in the ass, and they put up with me without any complaints or issues. I have the impression that he'll go the extra mile to really figure out what Jackson will or won't do, unlike some dealers that just don't want to be bothered with it.


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## Edika (Apr 30, 2014)

When I saw Black Mamba's list I initially thought that they were offering two models as 7 string custom selects, the SL2H and RR24. Then I reread the list more carefully .

Anyway I assume that we will see more NGD's with tasty USA 7 string soloist!


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## LolloBlaskhyrt (Apr 30, 2014)

Amazing!!


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## groverj3 (Apr 30, 2014)

Black Mamba said:


> New Custom Select options include:
> 
> - SL2H-7
> - RR24
> ...



As of now 7 strings are still only listed under the "masterbuilt" options. This bumps it up to either full custom shop, or close, pricing. Some of these other options have shown up on the price list. I'm probably not going to be in the market for another ~$3k instrument anytime soon, but I might email Matt soonish to get to the bottom of this for you guys. I just figure it might be in poor taste to bombard him with more questions after telling him I was going through a different dealer for the order I did place


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## WestOfSeven (Apr 30, 2014)

It's still masterbuilt only 

My dealer called today to verify.

Idk Wtf Jackson is thinking. I just want a inline headstock 7 string soloist in 25.5-27 scale without waiting two years for a full custom. They really seem to be falling behind.. 

I've been waiting years... Might just get a eII horizon fr7 already.


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## groverj3 (Apr 30, 2014)

^ If that's true, I don't know why on earth they would release a limited run of Custom SELECT SL2H-7s??? Since when does Jackson make sense though


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## Guamskyy (Apr 30, 2014)

Cool! So now only 28 more years till I can get it left-handed?


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## Samark (May 28, 2014)

Did anyone see the update on Jackson's facebook? Are they available now?


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## groverj3 (May 28, 2014)

^ Those are a limited run. The same one that was mentioned earlier by me as being listed as Custom Select, even though a normal human can't commission one themselves for Custom Select pricing. It's full-blown masterbuilt custom shop pricing.


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> ^ Those are a limited run. The same one that was mentioned earlier by me as being listed as Custom Select, even though a normal human can't commission one themselves for Custom Select pricing. It's full-blown masterbuilt custom shop pricing.



Yeah, that price is completely insane.


Fortunately, since I'd buy one otherwise.


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## Thorerges (Jun 6, 2014)

Is it just me or has is Jackson been on a decline for several years? They seem to run out of ideas.


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## WestOfSeven (Jun 8, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Is it just me or has is Jackson been on a decline for several years? They seem to run out of ideas.



Yes they have. And with fender owning them I doubt it will ever get better.


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## Thorerges (Jun 8, 2014)

I thought so too. My question is why though? They had a very successful reputation and I thought it was very naive of them to let Ibanez suck up a lot of the American market. Not half as many artists use Jackson as they used too. 

I also thought it was puzzling they didn't release a Misha Mansoor model the way Mayones did. That would have been a big catch for them.


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## tscoolberth (Jun 8, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I also thought it was puzzling they didn't release a Misha Mansoor model the way Mayones did. That would have been a big catch for them.



Especially since MIsha hapily whips out his Jackson on his pedal and amp demo videos on a regular basis .. I was like "Wait a second .. Misha plays Jackons and they don't have him plastered all over their website ?? No signature model ?? There should be factory reps banging down his door daily with trailer loads of free guitars."


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## eaeolian (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Is it just me or has is Jackson been on a decline for several years? They seem to run out of ideas.





You mean, other than a complete re-vamp of the imports over the last two years?

The USAs haven't changed much as much, but they're introduced the Broderick, the B7/B8 and the KV7 in the last couple of years. What are they going to do, become Dean and offer a new half-assed sig guitar every year, just because?

The market for $3K guitars just doesn't change that much, and even then, they added the semi-custom options we've been talking about in this thread.



I think it's just you.


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## TemjinStrife (Jun 9, 2014)

Hopefully, if you order one with seven strings, you'll receive one with seven strings (given how they've been doing with custom orders recently).


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## Thorerges (Jun 9, 2014)

eaeolian said:


> You mean, other than a complete re-vamp of the imports over the last two years?
> 
> The USAs haven't changed much as much, but they're introduced the Broderick, the B7/B8 and the KV7 in the last couple of years. What are they going to do, become Dean and offer a new half-assed sig guitar every year, just because?
> 
> ...



Nope. Thats not what I meant, I appreciate you being supportive of your endorser - I just bought a Jackson Custom Shop Soloist which I am extremely happy to have, best playing guitar I own. 

However, they haven't had the grip that Ibanez have had on the metal community in general, not to mention as a poster mentioned above - if a top player like Misha plays your guitars, you should give him a $3k sig right away even if he does not sign with you exclusively. Jacksons latest designs (besides the Broderick) look pretty boring and sterile to me. Just imagine if some cheaper version of this (Without the crazy top) was released into the market -







They would sell like hotcakes.


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## stevexc (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Nope. Thats not what I meant, I appreciate you being supportive of your endorser - I just bought a Jackson Custom Shop Soloist which I am extremely happy to have, best playing guitar I own.
> 
> However, they haven't had the grip that Ibanez have had on the metal community in general, not to mention as a poster mentioned above - if a top player like Misha plays your guitars, you should give him a $3k sig right away even if he does not sign with you exclusively. Jacksons latest designs (besides the Broderick) look pretty boring and sterile to me. Just imagine if some cheaper version of this (Without the crazy top) was released into the market -
> 
> ...



I think you're overestimating Misha's "mainstream" appeal - he's from a very niche subgenre. While I can't explain why Chris Beattie has a sig Jackson, the rest of their signature artists are much more prolific. Anthrax, Megadeth, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Lamb of God, Trivium and Machinehead are much bigger names than periphery is at this point. I can't see them making nearly as much money as you'd expect them to off of a Misha sig. I mean, he's a really cool guy, but he's not a "top player". Plus he very clearly likes to not stick with only one manufacturer - with the variety he enjoys, I can't see an endorsement deal working for him.


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## Thorerges (Jun 9, 2014)

stevexc said:


> I think you're overestimating Misha's "mainstream" appeal - he's from a very niche subgenre. While I can't explain why Chris Beattie has a sig Jackson, the rest of their signature artists are much more prolific. Anthrax, Megadeth, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Lamb of God, Trivium and Machinehead are much bigger names than periphery is at this point. I can't see them making nearly as much money as you'd expect them to off of a Misha sig. I mean, he's a really cool guy, but he's not a "top player". Plus he very clearly likes to not stick with only one manufacturer - with the variety he enjoys, I can't see an endorsement deal working for him.



Periphery are about 2 albums old, signing a signature for him within the next couple of years will pay off dividends in the future. Thats what I meant, also - I am not a huge fan of Periphery, but making it to the cover of Guitar World is definitely saying something if you're still in the earlier stages of your music career. 

That being said, variety or not - it hasn't stopped Mayones from doing everything they can to promote him as a brand for them.


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## eaeolian (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> They would sell like hotcakes.



It's an RGA with a Jackson headstock, so it's fresh? 

Seriously? 

I understand what you're saying, but obviously Jackson doesn't feel they'll sell, though they used some of the ideas from his first two customs in the X Series guitars. They also decided to pick Broderick and the Trivium dude as the 7 string "guys" (which I don't agree with, but whatever), probably because from a bean-counter's perspective, they put the brand in front of more people. Established bands, yadda yadda. Jackson these days is a long way from the company that made their name by endorsing the hair metal guys no one had heard of and then having them blow up.

I'm not defending my endorser, BTW - pretty much everyone around here knows better than that, including my rep.  They made a bunch of changes to their line to better address the marketplace, some of which I agreed with (Affordable 7 strings that didn't suck? Awesome!) and some of which I didn't (only endorser guitars as USA production 7s? Not awesome.)

It's better than them sitting on their hands, but they could do a lot more. Then again, they're not any more boring than what Schecter or ESP or Ibanez do, at least for the US market.


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## noodles (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> However, they haven't had the grip that Ibanez have had on the metal community in general, not to mention as a poster mentioned above - if a top player like Misha plays your guitars, you should give him a $3k sig right away even if he does not sign with you exclusively. Jacksons latest designs (besides the Broderick) look pretty boring and sterile to me. Just imagine if some cheaper version of this (Without the crazy top) was released into the market -
> 
> They would sell like hotcakes.



So, you, and two or three other people would buy them, since the lion's share of Misha's fans can't afford it. Furthermore, I look at page 1 of Jackson's site...

Guitars | Jackson® Guitars

...and count ten offerings that are pretty much clones of the Ibanez guitars that you're describing.

What I _don't_ see, which all of the old school Jackson guys have been asking for for over a decade, is a 7-string version of a USA Soloist. You know, the people that make up the lion's share of their customers. I'm glad you like djent, but it's only a small segment of the market, so how many djent axes do we need? Misha and I happen to go for completely different sorts of guitars, which is why we've both gone through piles of them looking for what works. I was offered a Jackson endorsement almost ten years ago, and went with KxK because I could get what I wanted without paying over three grand.

I can unequivocally say that if I were an artist rep for Jackson, Misha playing my guitars wouldn't mean all that much to me. I don't mean that as a slight, and I know he's popular around these parts, but take a look at record sales, concert attendance numbers, and the average income of those buyers. Now you know why Scott Ian and Phil Collen get the high profile sigs in the USA line: they're a proven commodity that attract a significant number of middle class, middle aged fans who can afford a $2000+ guitar. You're trying to apply your passion as a player and listener to a business model, which is why you're wrong.


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## noodles (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Periphery are about 2 albums old, signing a signature for him within the next couple of years will pay off dividends in the future. Thats what I meant, also - I am not a huge fan of Periphery, but making it to the cover of Guitar World is definitely saying something if you're still in the earlier stages of your music career.
> 
> That being said, variety or not - it hasn't stopped Mayones from doing everything they can to promote him as a brand for them.



FMIC - very large, slow moving company, based upon conservative business decisions. How many guitars do you think Misha will sell for them compared to Eric Clapton, John Mayer, or Jeff Beck?

Mayones - small company, aggressively pursuing a market niche to make a name for themselves in.

The other thing to keep in mind is that none of us have a single damn clue about the details of Misha's relationship with any of these companies. For all you know, he paid full price for a new instrument, and is currently negotiating a relationship. We also don't know the nature of his relationship with FMIC. Really, you're just making proclamations about what a $11.5 billion dollar company should with their product line, completely based upon someone who has never touch the Billboard 200. You realize their are plenty of bigger bands than Periphery that don't warrant a USA sig, right? I'm curious how much of an increase a USA Misha sig would create for their bottom line.


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## Thorerges (Jun 9, 2014)

noodles said:


> So, you, and two or three other people would buy them, since the lion's share of Misha's fans can't afford it. Furthermore, I look at page 1 of Jackson's site...
> 
> Guitars | Jackson® Guitars
> 
> ...and count ten offerings that are pretty much clones of the Ibanez guitars that you're describing.



Ibanez was first to the market, definitely for 7 strings. They got there and made a killing off this small niche of players. Thats what I meant. 



noodles said:


> What I _don't_ see, which all of the old school Jackson guys have been asking for for over a decade, is a 7-string version of a USA Soloist. You know, the people that make up the lion's share of their customers.



I agree, I would definitely be interested in a 7 string soloist.



noodles said:


> I'm glad you like djent



I don't. 



noodles said:


> but it's only a small segment of the market, so how many djent axes do we need? Misha and I happen to go for completely different sorts of guitars, which is why we've both gone through piles of them looking for what works.



I don't know what a djent axe is - a 7 string with BKP pickups? Obscura use 7 strings, they're anything but djent players. Petrucci popularized the 7 string, and same can be said of him. However, I understand where you are coming from, I'm a pure metal/death metal type player - no leaning towards djent whatsoever - but I'd be very interested in what you refer to as a djent axe, and I am certain the same applies to many other players. 

The idea is to have an eye for the future, this new generation of guitarists are being groomed to lead in a few years. Petrucci wasn't extremely popular when he started, and in fact this style of music had serious detractors at the time - but now, his guitar series are the standard for progressive leaning players.




noodles said:


> I was offered a Jackson endorsement almost ten years ago, and went with KxK because I could get what I wanted without paying over three grand.



I agree, with Jackson you are paying a lot for that brand name. 



noodles said:


> I can unequivocally say that if I were an artist rep for Jackson, Misha playing my guitars wouldn't mean all that much to me. I don't mean that as a slight, and I know he's popular around these parts, but take a look at record sales, concert attendance numbers, and the average income of those buyers. Now you know why Scott Ian and Phil Collen get the high profile sigs in the USA line: they're a proven commodity that attract a significant number of middle class, middle aged fans who can afford a $2000+ guitar. You're trying to apply your passion as a player and listener to a business model, which is why you're wrong.



Nope, I disagree. Think in just a few short years how this genre of music will culminate in a few select bands that will have some (relatively) serious record sales. I am not saying its a risk free investment, but to me, it's certainly one that is worth making.


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## stevexc (Jun 9, 2014)

noodles said:


> The other thing to keep in mind is that none of us have a single damn clue about the details of Misha's relationship with any of these companies.



This needs to be recognized - the whole argument is moot (or moot-er I suppose) if Misha was approached and turned it down.


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## noodles (Jun 9, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Ibanez was first to the market, definitely for 7 strings. They got there and made a killing off this small niche of players. Thats what I meant.



...and? I bet the annual 7-string market is less than the number of Mexican Strats that Fender sells in a week. So, what you're talking about is a niche of a niche.



> I don't.



Then why do you think Misha is that big of a deal? Really, endorsement is a numbers game, and a signature model is the highest level you can attain. Show me a large production manufacturer that gives sig models to people at Misha's level.



> I don't know what a djent axe is - a 7 string with BKP pickups?



That was a flippant response, since djent is so polarizing. Not too many people have a take it or leave it opinion of the genre, and while Misha has guys that completely try to duplicate his setup (which is just idiotic), there are probably just as many that avoid anything he uses because he uses it (which is equally idiotic).

Having said that, the flatmount bridge is thew key feature, and it has slowly been displacing the tune-o-matic on newer models. I think it is a disproportionate representation of what players want, since that bridge is a deal breaker for lots of guys (me included).



> The idea is to have an eye for the future, this new generation of guitarists are being groomed to lead in a few years. Petrucci wasn't extremely popular when he started, and in fact this style of music had serious detractors at the time - but now, his guitar series are the standard for progressive leaning players.



You've got a very ambitious view of the music world, don't you? There will never be another band as big as Metallica, and bands will be hard pressed to even get as big as Dream Theater. Bands don't make money anymore, since fans don't actually by albums anymore. Concert attendance is way down. Social media (Facebook, Twitter, Reddit) have become the voice of descent for the next generation, and music is slowly moving into the background. I think you're speaking to a roll that will no longer exist, since no one will be commanding the big crowds anymore. Now, add to that the diversity in the market place these days--really, was there ever a better time to be a 7-string player?--and the need for sig models is just not there anymore.



> I agree, with Jackson you are paying a lot for that brand name.



Yes, and with that brand name comes a guarantee of delivery. How many small builders have we seen fold up, screwing their customers in the process? Thankfully, KxK has never pocketed cash and refused to deliver, but all these assholes that followed sure have screwed things up for the little guy. Thank Rico Jr, Vik, and the like.



> Nope, I disagree. Think in just a few short years how this genre of music will culminate in a few select bands that will have some (relatively) serious record sales. I am not saying its a risk free investment, but to me, it's certainly one that is worth making.



Then we'll agree to disagree, because the evidence is around us every day. Metallica and U2 are the last of the arena bands. There will probably never be another.


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## Rev2010 (Jun 9, 2014)

noodles said:


> Then we'll agree to disagree, because the evidence is around us every day. Metallica and U2 are the last of the arena bands. There will probably never be another.



Noodles, thanks for saying what I wanted to say in regards to the Misha sig model comment, couldn't agree more.  Just wanted to ask about this last line. Are you referring to a specific genre(s) of music such as rock & metal? I ask because even to this day there's dozens of musicians/bands that sell out entire stadiums. Even <gasp> Miley Cyrus does it and she's relatively new compared to old dogs like U2 and Metallica. Heck, Kevin Hart, a comedian, was able to sell out Madison Square Garden for a *stand-up* act.

Just curious to see why you feel there will likely never be another arena band when current evidence seems to be to the contrary. I do get your points though on how things are declining on many fronts.


Rev.


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## noodles (Jun 9, 2014)

Rev2010 said:


> Noodles, thanks for saying what I wanted to say in regards to the Misha sig model comment, couldn't agree more.  Just wanted to ask about this last line. Are you referring to a specific genre(s) of music such as rock & metal? I ask because even to this day there's dozens of musicians/bands that sell out entire stadiums. Even <gasp> Miley Cyrus does it and she's relatively new compared to old dogs like U2 and Metallica. Heck, Kevin Hart, a comedian, was able to sell out Madison Square Garden for a *stand-up* act.
> 
> Just curious to see why you feel there will likely never be another arena band when current evidence seems to be to the contrary. I do get your points though on how things are declining on many fronts.



I'm saying Metallica and U2 are it for the arena rock bands; I'm talking about the bands with longevity, that can continue to operate at a very high level (15k+ seat venues all over the country). Not riding the success of one single for a tour one-hit wonders, but bands that keep churning out platinum albums and huge tours. We're seeing the end of that.

Miley Cyrus isn't a musician, she's Facebook live. She'll bottom out and disappear like all the other teen starlet turned burnout eventually. These days, the pop world is like changing lightbulbs; when one burns out, you replace it with a new one and turn the light back on.

Point me out the rock bands on this: The Hot 100 : Page 1 | Billboard

Rock music as a world-moving force is dead. The music industry is simply a Xerox copier. The 90s was pretty much the beginning of the end, since I bet you can't name one band that broke in that period that is as big as Metallica or U2. Before that, I can go on all day--Rolling Stones, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Styx, Foreigner, Journey--I can just rattle them off without thinking. We can all sit around and argue what happened and what's causing it, but it doesn't change the fact that rock music is a niche market in the future.

You can also say this about rap, hip-hop, country, and R&B. The _real_ stuff, and not the radio, which is all the exact same song with various genre trappings. Here is your Mutt Lange-approved tune. What genre are you? Rock? OK, you gotta hit high notes outta key, dress metro, and sing about high school. Not for you? Sure, let's try country. Get a cowboy hat, have someone play guitar solos on a violin, add nasal twang to everything, and sing about pickup trucks and freedom. Ah, not for you, you wanna do R&B? Fine, put on a suit with no tie, some shades, toss in a keyboard loop, shove unnecessary high notes that you miss and get pitch corrected into the bridge and ride out, and sing about women in a club.

None of these require a guitar hero. None of these require anything but Fruity Loops and some session musicians. Don't worry, we'll fly everything in on the tour, so just get some guys to wear guitars that match your look. It doesn't even matter anymore.

THAT is why a Misha sig is a bad idea for FMIC. Invest in the future? What are you smoking, they don't need to do that, since no one is paying attention to the guitarist anymore. They just have to keep churning out Strats for the pop guys, Teles for the country guys, and some cheap metal guitars for the teenage kids who haven't gone off to college and had their square edges shaved off to fit in round holes. USA Jacksons at $2k plus? That's for the few guys who have boatloads of cash but don't want a PRS. All the real Jackson guys just look for it used on E-bay these days. Seriously, Fender isn't missing any sort of opportunity by not rolling out the red carpet for every influential guitarist you know, because guitarists don't influence many people these days. The transformation of music to image that started in the 80s is now complete. Grunge tried their best to fight against it, but they simply made rock so bloody boring and overly serious that all the hot chicks started listening to Garth Brooks instead.


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## Rev2010 (Jun 9, 2014)

Thanks Noodles for explaining. And I totally agree. Just wanted to know in what context you were referring. 


Rev.


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## eaeolian (Jun 9, 2014)

I think this may be the most Dave has posted here in five years. 

He's right, though. My position isn't as vehement, but I still think he's right. Country will be the last "arena-level" type of music where people care what the musicians are playing, brand-wise - and of course, Fender, Gibson and PRS have that market locked up, with G&L and the boutique builders fighting for what's left.


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## GXPO (Jun 10, 2014)

eaeolian said:


> I think this may be the most Dave has posted here in five years.
> 
> He's right, though. My position isn't as vehement, but I still think he's right. Country will be the last "arena-level" type of music where people care what the musicians are playing, brand-wise - and of course, Fender, Gibson and PRS have that market locked up, with G&L and the boutique builders fighting for what's left.



I agree with most of what he said, but the fact that the arena tour is dead only qualifies the idea that it's not a butts in seats game any more. The idea that a guitarist can have their own youtube channel to showcase gear to only the percentage of your fan base who are actually interested, plus every fan on Facebook, twitter etc is an absolutely game changer and should (and has moderately) change the nature of endorsement. Never before have guitarists' been able to digest so much information regarding their favourite bands and their gear. Tour or not, more eyes will see guys like Misha's gear daily than Metallica would have got with the same number of fans after Ride the Lightning. 

10 years ago I thought Metallica exclusively loved and played their ESP guitars, now I know what brand of tampon Misha's girlfriend uses, times have changed and endorsements need to as well. You're definitely right in saying that the Jackson MMover9000 shouldn't necessarily be their flagship offering, it's not the next Jem.. But if that guitar came out right now 500,000 would know by the end of the week, they'd all read the word Jackson and it would be however more relevant on my GAS radar than it was before.


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## BouhZik (Jun 10, 2014)

It would be interresting to know if the schecter KM7 is selling well. Because if K.Merrow sells guitars well, then Bulb should sell well too. Isn't schecter and jackson both owned by fender?


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## GXPO (Jun 10, 2014)

BouhZik said:


> It would be interresting to know if the schecter KM7 is selling well. Because if K.Merrow sells guitars well, then Bulb should sell well too. Isn't schecter and jackson both owned by fender?



Schecter is owned by the gents who own ESP. Not sure the models are directly comparable due to the fact that the price points would likely be very different.


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## Isaac (Jun 10, 2014)

noodles said:


> Then why do you think Misha is that big of a deal? Really, endorsement is a numbers game, and a signature model is the highest level you can attain. Show me a large production manufacturer that gives sig models to people at Misha's level.



em ... Ibanez? Jake Bowen? In fact, arguably less well know than Misha.


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## Andromalia (Jun 10, 2014)

noodles said:


> ...and? I bet the annual 7-string market is less than the number of Mexican Strats that Fender sells in a week. So, what you're talking about is a niche of a niche.



Fender should do 7 string mexican strats. Problem solved. 



> The 90s was pretty much the beginning of the end, since I bet you can't name one band that broke in that period that is as big as Metallica or U2.


Metallica actually gained their "worldwide stadium guys" status in the 90es.
That said I agree with most of your argument, but I think it leaves some of the equation out, mainly that metal is less mainstream today than it was 15 years ago, composition wise.


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## narad (Jun 10, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Just imagine if some cheaper version of this (Without the crazy top) was released into the market -
> 
> They would sell like hotcakes.



It was called the RGA. They didn't sell like hotcakes.


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## narad (Jun 10, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> Just imagine if some cheaper version of this (Without the crazy top) was released into the market -
> 
> They would sell like hotcakes.



It was called the RGA. They didn't sell like hotcakes.

EDIT: Ah drats, eaeolian with the same point.


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## Edika (Jun 10, 2014)

When I read Eeolian's comment about the KV7 I thought he meant there was a production KV7. My main complaint with that model are the shark fin inlays. They do seem small even for the six string fretboard so maybe it was Corey's choice. If not then it's an odd choice for such an expensive instrument as it is really off aesthetically.

Getting back to the original post, Jackson could include a 7 string soloist in their custom select series. I think most Jackson fans would prefer it over the B7 (even though I like the B7) and it would fit the current Jackson model. $2-3K may not be cheap but it's not $5K for a custom model plus 2 years wait minimum.


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## s4tch (Jun 10, 2014)

BouhZik said:


> It would be interresting to know if the schecter KM7 is selling well. Because if K.Merrow sells guitars well, then Bulb should sell well too. Isn't schecter and jackson both owned by fender?



I think it's not Keith Merrow's name what sells those guitars, but the specs and the price. With all respect to Keith, he spec'd out that guitar so well that this model would have been a hit* even with his dogs' name on it. 

*by Schecters standards

At the end of the day, most people just want LPs, Strats, Telecasters and RGs, I guess.


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## Forkface (Jun 10, 2014)

I dont get it, you guys didn't like the B7? why such fixation on a soloist 7?

legit asking, not trying to troll. Ive never had that attraction to jackson guitars so im not really in the loop as to what they do, but the B7 looks nice (i think?)


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## s4tch (Jun 10, 2014)

^Soloist is The Classic Jackson superstrat shape, that's all I guess. It's like if Ibanez would have introduced a 7-string RGD instead of an RG. I find the B7 pretty cool, but still, a Soloist 7 would be even more appealing.


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## Thorerges (Jun 10, 2014)

noodles said:


> THAT is why a Misha sig is a bad idea for FMIC. Invest in the future? What are you smoking, they don't need to do that, since no one is paying attention to the guitarist anymore. They just have to keep churning out Strats for the pop guys, Teles for the country guys, and some cheap metal guitars for the teenage kids who haven't gone off to college and had their square edges shaved off to fit in round holes.



I honestly don't know what you are talking about. No one pays attention to the guitarist anymore? I don't know if this is from your own skewed personal experience, but in case you haven't noticed - Ibanez took the plunge with Jake Bowen from Periphery:

Electric Guitars JBM - JBM100 Jake Bowen | Ibanez guitars

I do not, by any means, see why the same cannot be done for Misha. 

Again, let me re-emphasize, I am not a huge Misha worshipper (although I am a fan), just marketing wise - I think it makes a lot of sense.


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## eaeolian (Jun 10, 2014)

Forkface said:


> I dont get it, you guys didn't like the B7? why such fixation on a soloist 7?



Simple, in my case: I'm a 25.5" scale guy. If I was looking for a 27" scale guitar, I'd have bought a B7.

There's literally zero reason Jackson couldn't sell an SL-2H-7 for $200 more than those. They'd have sold a bunch if they'd done it seven years ago when I started bugging them about it. Now, probably fewer as there are more choices.


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## stevexc (Jun 10, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I honestly don't know what you are talking about. No one pays attention to the guitarist anymore? I don't know if this is from your own skewed personal experience, but in case you haven't noticed - Ibanez took the plunge with Jake Bowen from Periphery:
> 
> Electric Guitars JBM - JBM100 Jake Bowen | Ibanez guitars
> 
> ...



Ibanez is not FMIC - Fender in general tends to play it much, much safer, at least in recent years.


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## eaeolian (Jun 10, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I do not, by any means, see why the same cannot be done for Misha.



Ibanez has a history of giving RG variation custom models to smaller-time players (Kiko from Angra immediately comes to mind as a recent one). Trying to sell that to FMIC would probably be a disaster, given the corporate mindset.


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## wannabguitarist (Jun 10, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I honestly don't know what you are talking about. No one pays attention to the guitarist anymore? I don't know if this is from your own skewed personal experience, but in case you haven't noticed - Ibanez took the plunge with Jake Bowen from Periphery:
> 
> Electric Guitars JBM - JBM100 Jake Bowen | Ibanez guitars
> 
> ...



I always wonder how many people actually buy those stupid expensive Ibanez sigs (other than the Vai and Satch models). I mean, this site is really the target market and how many have popped up? 

I would love to see a Misha sig though. After they release and SL2-H-7 and bring the fusion back


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## Thorerges (Jun 10, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Ibanez is not FMIC - Fender in general tends to play it much, much safer, at least in recent years.



Ahh I see. Thanks for the clarification.


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## noodles (Jun 10, 2014)

GXPO said:


> The idea that a guitarist can have their own youtube channel to showcase gear to only the percentage of your fan base who are actually interested, plus every fan on Facebook, twitter etc is an absolutely game changer and should (and has moderately) change the nature of endorsement. Never before have guitarists' been able to digest so much information regarding their favourite bands and their gear. Tour or not, more eyes will see guys like Misha's gear daily than Metallica would have got with the same number of fans after Ride the Lightning.



Exposure of this sort does NOT translate into sales. If you think that Misha has _x_ number of fans, and _y_% of them are guitarists, then only _z_% of those guitarists are going to buy a piece of gear that he uses simply because he uses it. The higher the cost of that piece of gear, the smaller the number _z_ is.

So, the smaller ticket item game is where it is really at. I bet his OD pedal was a low cost of investment for that company, and they are enjoying a moderate return on investment out of it. That's just not going to happen with a high risk/low reward item like a $3000+ signature model. ESP really uses those Metallica sigs as exposure for the entire brand; the way any new car sales manager will tell you a muscle car in the showroom brings the guy in the front door, where he and his wife buy a family car. I guarantee you hardly anyone buys an ESP Iron Cross, but Hetfield helps move LTD Eclipses.

Look at the import (non MIJ or USA) lines of Jackson, ESP, Fender, Gibson, Schecter, or PRS. Look who has sig models. Now ask yourself if Periphery is as big as any of those bands. Nope. That's why Misha doesn't already have a Jackson sig model, let alone a USA Jackson sig.

I'd argue that he did more for Fractal than anyone else. High dollar signature model amps or processors are exceedingly rare, though, but that doesn't preclude the sort of artist relationship that equates to big discounts off equipment. After all, AxeFX is really like a broad tone creation tool, so his presets are really where it's at. This is no different than three decades of buying effects units filled with artist presets.

If anything, this is just another sign of the times. Misha's current level would make him a nobody by the 70s standards. The industry may be collapsing up top, but the Internet has allowed us access to a broad range of smaller artists who influence people in sub-sub-genres. That's the part of the equation that is a good thing.


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## noodles (Jun 10, 2014)

eaeolian said:


> Ibanez has a history of giving RG variation custom models to smaller-time players (Kiko from Angra immediately comes to mind as a recent one). Trying to sell that to FMIC would probably be a disaster, given the corporate mindset.



Yep. If Misha wanted an Ibanez sig, I'm pretty positive he'd have one. Of course, their endorsers are constantly turning over because the company treats them like shit.


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## GXPO (Jun 11, 2014)

noodles said:


> Exposure of this sort does NOT translate into sales. If you think that Misha has _x_ number of fans, and _y_% of them are guitarists, then only _z_% of those guitarists are going to buy a piece of gear that he uses simply because he uses it. The higher the cost of that piece of gear, the smaller the number _z_ is.



I couldn't agree with you more; I would argue that all Jackson (FMIC) need to do is not make a loss on the sig to increase exposure within this particular scene. 

When I look at Jackson's current line there is practically nothing I would buy. It looks nice and there are certainly a couple that almost grab me, but their current offering can basically never tempt me away from my mainstays and I think that's the same with a lot of people. 

With so many playing Ibanez, EBMM and ESP/Schecter (to an extent) they are imprinted on our collective as the tools of this sub division of our trade. If Jackon pick up the right endorsements I honestly believe weak minded fools like myself will start to think of hopping on board. Guitar is a hobby for me, I want to be part of the gang, I want people to like my threads. 

The fact that the below guitars exist for me, means that Misha could probably have a sig, but it would need to be the plain blue one and come in closer to B8 price than anything else.

AJ-1
KM-7
JBM

With all that being said, I think they probably are already developing a MM sig. Will be interesting to see what they decide is best.


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## eaeolian (Jun 13, 2014)

There are no sig models without becoming a Jackson exclusive endorser a la Broderick or Ian. I know Misha's said several times that he will not be exclusive to anyone, so I find one unlikely from that angle, as well.


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## Thorerges (Jun 15, 2014)

What explains the drop in Jacksons popularity then? They used to be huge.


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## eaeolian (Jun 17, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> What explains the drop in Jacksons popularity then? They used to be huge.



The 1990's.


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## Thorerges (Jun 17, 2014)

I just browsed through their custom select options. 

No BKP humbuckers, which is weird because those are becoming really popular. No 7 string options either.

The popularity of both of those things is not just sevenstring.org either.


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## stevexc (Jun 17, 2014)

7-string is an option, scroll down to Masterbuilt Options.


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## eaeolian (Jun 17, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I just browsed through their custom select options.
> 
> No BKP humbuckers, which is weird because those are becoming really popular. No 7 string options either.
> 
> The popularity of both of those things is not just sevenstring.org either.



The no BKP thing doesn't surprise me, but if you're really dying for them, I suspect they still will do the "send your own in" option. 7 string is in the Masterbuilt options, which is why I won't be ordering another USA 7 anytime soon.


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## TemjinStrife (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't understand why people expect Bareknuckles to come stock in everything 

There are plenty of top-flight pickup companies that aren't the flavor of the week.


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## Thorerges (Jun 17, 2014)

eaeolian said:


> The no BKP thing doesn't surprise me, but if you're really dying for them, I suspect they still will do the "send your own in" option. 7 string is in the Masterbuilt options, which is why I won't be ordering another USA 7 anytime soon.



I don't get why it's only a masterbuilt option. Sounds like something perfectly reasonable to have in limited quantities from the USA shop.


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## Thorerges (Jun 17, 2014)

TemjinStrife said:


> I don't understand why people expect Bareknuckles to come stock in everything
> 
> There are plenty of top-flight pickup companies that aren't the flavor of the week.



I was saying that with a Custom Select option, you would expect them to be available. 

And BKP's will be around for a ....ing long time (barring business collapse), whether djent remains or not (and it most likely won't).


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## eaeolian (Jun 18, 2014)

Thorerges said:


> I don't get why it's only a masterbuilt option. Sounds like something perfectly reasonable to have in limited quantities from the USA shop.



I completely agree with you, actually.


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## MetalDaze (Jun 18, 2014)

There was a recent run of white SL2H-7's. They aren't cheap, though.


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## eaeolian (Jun 18, 2014)

MetalDaze said:


> There was a recent run of white SL2H-7's. They aren't cheap, though.



This was discussed earlier in this thread.


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## rectifryer (Jun 18, 2014)

While rock and metal seem to be dead in the US, in the UK and nordic regions it seems to be pretty damn active sales wise. Bands like Dimmu Borgir sell consistently and well. You could say they aren't doing as well as Metallica at their prime, but they don't have the same amount of people over there, either (UK). 

I don't believe rock died because all the hot girls (I assume you are asserting shallow) started listening to Garth Brooks. Shallow people (in terms of music taste) never really listen to decent or niche music anyways. 


Additionally, slipknot, korn, tool, and quite a few nu-metal bands have been very successful with great show attendance and they were starting as soon as internet piracy came onto the scene. 

As much as I enjoy the metaphors, I can't say I agree that metal or rock is trending downward overall. If anything, there are more total sales in EVERY category. They're just spread over MORE BANDS. In that sense, I can see how it is logical to say there will never be a band that plays arenas for 20 years again since metallica, but that is already false. Niches are getting larger while the common genres are shrinking. It's that simple. People are looking for exactly what they want versus forcing themselves into something.

Just the opinion of a refrigerator.


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## Thorerges (Jun 19, 2014)

rectifryer said:


> While rock and metal seem to be dead in the US, in the UK and nordic regions it seems to be pretty damn active sales wise. Bands like Dimmu Borgir sell consistently and well. You could say they aren't doing as well as Metallica at their prime, but they don't have the same amount of people over there, either (UK).[/quotes]
> 
> I don't know about metal being dead, Mastodon sells a ton of records. It's no Metallica but the times are different. The landscape has changed for sure, everyone now downloads music illegally and you can look up a live show of your favorite project online without have to pay to go to a show, many people prefer that. I myself am guilty of not going to live shows because I have a ton of work and YouTube.com to help me out.
> 
> Thats what the music industry faces now, it's getting a lot easier to put your name out there via social media, recording is also a lot cheaper - but to actually make a living - yea, it's going to be very hard to stand out.


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