# Musicians Institute



## Dehumanized (Jul 24, 2012)

Has anyone been to Musicians Institute in Hollywood? If so, is it worth it? Or is the knowledge you recieve there something you easily can gather in a much economically friendly way? 

I was thinking of applying there for next year but I am however uncertain of it's worth. I either choose to move 100 kilometers to another town and start a 3 year music production class, where I learn music theory, audio engineering and marketing; all in my mothertongue Swedish. 

I could also be tempted by my dream to go to the USA and apply to MI but I've heard a lot of negative stories about the school and about the teachers. I was thinking about applying for, what I believe is called an "AA Education" or what not. The guitar program anyways and simultaneously the "independent artist" program or the audio engineering program. 

I'd rather not be $100.000 dollars in debt if or when I return to Sweden. That means I will die with a loan, which is horrible. 

All responses are welcome!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2012)

I would not bother, from what Ive heard, people care more about how good your mixes are than what school you went to. Also racking up huge amounts of debt and getting into music isnt a great idea, its not exactly profitable.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 24, 2012)

Honestly... that sounds like the wrong kind of debt to be taking on. Get a degree in a field where you can actually generate an income and a career. Play guitar because you love it. There's a chance that your music will one day become your career, but its a slim chance indeed.


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## jrg828 (Jul 24, 2012)

i went to the summer shot program this summer, and it was very lack luster. very unorganized and uniformitive tbh


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## Dehumanized (Jul 24, 2012)

It might not be the sharpest idea. L.A is very, very tempting and it sounds like it would be a great experience and a chance to get some connections abroad. Some say L.A is the land of the dreamers and some say it's the land of the broken dreams. Which one is true I do not know. But I guess a lot of people go to Hollywood with high expectations of succeeding in whatever artform they choose to pursue. 

A friend of my friend is there right now and he states that it's, and I quote "the best thing I ever did in my life". Read some reviews and I heard that M.I are cashcows, that they "recruit" most of their students by the fact that the school is in the heart of L.A. And as previously stated, it is very tempting.

I currently work as a "forklift driver" or more generally as a "warehouse worker". You can probably already guess that bending over all day and lifting heavy boxes and occationally sitting my sorry behind down in a comfortable seat isn't something that I want to do til' I retire. 

I want to do music and being a studioengineer allows me to take control of my future in the comfort of my own home. That way, I can focus all my time and energy into being a better guitar player and better at mixing/mastering, composing and everything in between. Work leaves less and less time to practise, an education gives me time and something to fall back on.

Thoughts?


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## ArrowHead (Jul 24, 2012)

Dehumanized said:


> I want to do music and being a studioengineer allows me to take control of my future in the comfort of my own home. That way, I can focus all my time and energy into being a better guitar player and better at mixing/mastering, composing and everything in between. Work leaves less and less time to practise, an education gives me time and something to fall back on.
> 
> Thoughts?



These days, education does not guarantee a career. ESPECIALLY music and arts.

Talk to some engineers. Get a good feel for the amount of work that's actually out there. I know a lot more broke guys with educations and really nice studios than I do successful engineers. And where I live is just as much a musical hub as LA. I see kids graduate Berklee to live with their parents for the next 10 years. I see even the most successful guys like Kurt Ballou go through periods of having almost NO work. I see guys like Ken Susi, Adam from Killswitch, etc... keep their irons in many different fires to keep afloat. It's a really tough field to make steady income in right now.

I don't discourage you getting an education. I regret not finishing my own many years ago. But the reality is that you're likely to graduate to little work and a lifetime of student debt over your head. No one wants to work 30 years at Burger Farm to pay off their music school.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 24, 2012)

Yeah man get a normal job and do music on the side a la Fred Brum. He has the greatest setup.


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## Lrrrr (Jul 24, 2012)

I wouldn't go headfirst like that into a music career. I know there are a lot of stories about how the best of the best sacrificied normal schooling, work, and socialization so they could dedicate themselves to their craft 10-12 hours a day or more. For every one that made a decent living going that route, there are hundreds that have failed. Depending on what you want to do (since you're on SSO, I'd imagine that your ultimate goal would be extreme performance rather than some jazz ensemble or teaching ). Theory and technique, the things that a school can teach you, go a long way no doubt, but creativity and dedication are what separate those musicians that can make a living and those that can't and for the most part, those can't be taught, they're experienced. Besides, most of the knowledge you can get through places like MI are available through cheap and free resources all over the interwebz and in the real world if you can figure out where to look. Pick peoples brains and develop habits that facilitate learning (keeping a notepad and tape recorder with you, practice mentally as well as physically, ect.)

My suggestion is to pursue another area, unless you really are hell bent on music to the point where another career path would be a severe hinderance. I'm not sure of your situation, but for me, I choose engineering. I've graduated and am now working, and as a single young guy out on my own, I have more free time than I know what to do with. If I wanted to, I could afford myself 6-10 hours of practice time a day with weekends to spare. 

Also, for me, LA lost its charm right about the time that I got into town  San Diego on the other hand...Almost every university has an exchange program also, you would have plenty of opportunities to study all over the world regardless of the route you pursue, don't let some facility ran by some greedy fat cats half way across the world be the deciding factor.


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## ArrowHead (Jul 24, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah man get a beard and do music on the side a la Fred Brum. He has the greatest facial hair.



Fixed that for you.


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## Dehumanized (Jul 24, 2012)

Freaking fantastic answers! Feels great to see so many down to earth and intelligent guys, all in one forum. A thousand thanks for the comments! Your judgement of what's best for you can easily be clouded by greed and narrow mindedness; at least for me.


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## 2ManyShoes (Jul 24, 2012)

I went to GIT for both a summer session (1988) and a full-year session (1988-89). That was a long time ago, so my information might be out of date and this is strictly FWIW.

For me, the experience was worth the money. Even more than most things, you get out of MI what you put in. You could (correctly) argue that some of my classes were less than top-notch, and that there were organizational problems. But, damn, my jazz improv teachers were Joe Pass, Scott Henderson, and Frank Gambale. My rock/blues teacher was Keith Wyatt. I got to jam with Paul Gilbert on a regular basis, work on two-hand tapping with Jennifer Batten, and have lunch in the cafeteria with Tommy Tedesco all the time, listening to his stories about crazy sessions. The list goes on. The tuition will get you in the room with people like that for an extended period of time (for me, over a year). You can blow that opportunity, or you can run with it.

Part of the education they're selling is immersion in the musical community, which means more than going to class and saying "Make me good." Assuming you're already studying and practicing your ass off, it means finding mentors, finding good people to play with, and jamming with everybody, all the time. Part of what you are paying for is the resource of this incredible concentration of good musicians who have a lot of free time and have their ears open. I can't count how many awesome conversations and lick-trading sessions I had with fellow students; how many great shows I saw that never would have happened anywhere else; etc., etc., etc.

That doesn't excuse poor organization and rampant profiteering by the owners of the school. I'm just saying that, despite some obvious downsides, I'm sure as hell glad I went.


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## Dehumanized (Jul 24, 2012)

2ManyShoes said:


> I went to GIT for both a summer session (1988) and a full-year session (1988-89). That was a long time ago, so my information might be out of date and this is strictly FWIW.
> 
> For me, the experience was worth the money. Even more than most things, you get out of MI what you put in. You could (correctly) argue that some of my classes were less than top-notch, and that there were organizational problems. But, damn, my jazz improv teachers were Joe Pass, Scott Henderson, and Frank Gambale. My rock/blues teacher was Keith Wyatt. I got to jam with Paul Gilbert on a regular basis, work on two-hand tapping with Jennifer Batten, and have lunch in the cafeteria with Tommy Tedesco all the time, listening to his stories about crazy sessions. The list goes on. The tuition will get you in the room with people like that for an extended period of time (for me, over a year). You can blow that opportunity, or you can run with it.
> 
> ...



That is... an epic story.. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm stuck in a small town where everyone knows everyone and the only inspiration I can find is on the internet.

I can't function and be the musician that I want to be by living in this s-hole of a "town". I need people like myself, who want the same things as me, who can share their vision and interpretation of music. And I don't mean share by text on a webpage, I need face to face, I need sessions to get inspired to play more, to learn, to get my head spinning from discovering new ways to do things. 

Yes, you can be all Zen about it and say something like "you really do not need anything, you have to find yourself etc." or whatnot. It's like saying that you should save your money and not invest in a homestudio because "it is enough to record using a taperecorder and sending it to hundreds of companies, hoping that one will sign you".

I wish not, to embark upon a spiritual journey in order to find things that can inspire me to write better music. I want and I believe that I need real people, real environments and pure focus on my dreams. I don't ask for one thing just to have people to say that I don't need it.

I don't ask for scales and theory to have someone tell me that it's unnecessary. I don't ask "Wow, what happened, theoretically, in this song to make it sound like this?" to have someone tell me "Why do you want to make a song that sounds like this one?" What I need is open minded people who are willing to share and not shut me down.

Thanks for the story and excuse my immense response


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## Augminished (Jul 24, 2012)

I have done a couple of summer shot programs out there. I did one in recording which was pretty good if you don't know the basics. I also did one in Independent artist which sucked ass. 

I am right now in college getting my degree in Music Industry studies which is like music business and recording. It is at a university and it is a four year program. Even though it is related to music, I walk out with an engineering degree. I want a bachelors degree though so, your "plan" may differ. If all else fails and I can't make any money I still have a bachelors in science.

As most of us know there is not much money is music realm anymore. The only two titles I see people making money are producers and publishers. Publishers still make great money because it is not solely music but involves movies, plays, etc... My advice, if you do pursue some sort of degree/certificate make sure you have a back up plan.


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## Lasik124 (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm likely not the best person to respond. I'm in the AA program with about 6 weeks left. Basically I'm burnt out.

Moving on from that, I'll try and keep it simple.

I loved MI, and the knowledge I learned has improved my playing and my idea of music to exactly what I dreamt of. I plan to take the knowledge I've learned and continue to play it and dive deeper into topics, as well as run over old curriculum after school to teach.

Now that being said everything seems great. But lets talk about living in Hollywood. God damn it.

First let it be said, I'm anti-social as all hell. This is my fault, I'm aware.

The first couple quarters here were the best time of my life, moving to a city which seemed exciting. Meeting so many new great friends. Studying hours on end. I've seen some people get some great gigs, make great friends. Hang out every weekend jamming and partying. However due to my terrible social skills I partake in close to none of this at this point.

I guess to put it simply be weary of hollywood. Its really cool to live in the heart of it for the first 6-8 months. I can't tell you how much I miss the feeling of excitement. Its a big whats your personality like kind of thing. I've met quite a few of my friends who really dislike the location too.

Anyway, whether you care or not I'll move back to the school real quick.

Honestly, the school is great. Its a huge "You get what you put in" And man, if you put it in your everything, you'll get everything. All the teachers have Open counseling's an hour on multiple days. So if you enjoy a teacher(Theres about 20 I enjoy) Go stop by and see them to study even further from your classes. Really anything you want to do is here and for every style. Just to clarify the teachers here are no joke. Some of these cats are better then the big famous names, and easily better then anyone I've met in my local music scene. In fact, some are the best players I've ever seen. Period. 

As far as students go they seem to be very mixed, but they're are a lot of rocker/metalhead cats here who honestly do nothing. Don't let them get to you though. To my knowledge this could be at every music school, hell if I know.

All in all. I'm not a people person, and I think thats what messed up my MI experience the most. I loved what I learn, and the social aspect won't matter in a year.

I plan on moving back home once I'm done to the east coast Philly/NY area to work and pursue music there. The L.A Music scene is flakey to me.

Jeez I friggen rambled... If you have any questions feel free to ask away. I know a couple other people at the school currently post here as well, or at least browse.


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## -JeKo- (Jul 24, 2012)

Does Paul Gilbert still teach there occasionally? What about Justin Derrico? I guess they both have some MI background.


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## bhakan (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't have any personal experience, but I would think one of the key questions to ask some of the people here who have gone is how did their career turn out afterwards. A number of people said that it really improved their playing, but in this case, what really matters is whether that improvement in playing helped them to get a job and make a living in the music industry. It seems like it is pretty hard to make a living in the music industry, so to the the people who went, are you guys able to make a living off of music, and has going to MI helped you achieve that?


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## G-Ray (Jul 24, 2012)

Just go. That's it. Warehouse job....or MI? Obvious answer. Skip the what ifs because your going to be happy playing and learning. IF you do go learn and most importantly BE SOCIAL AND GET CONTACTS. Contacts are important.


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## flint757 (Jul 24, 2012)

Doesn't it cost like 20K though? That's a lot of bang if it only improves your playing and not much else.


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## Lasik124 (Jul 24, 2012)

-JeKo- said:


> Does Paul Gilbert still teach there occasionally? What about Justin Derrico? I guess they both have some MI background.



I'm not familiar with Justin so its very possible. Paul does swing by occasionally though. I've had the pleasure of having a private lesson with him. I've had a 2nd chance but passed to give to students who did not





flint757 said:


> Doesn't it cost like 20K though? That's a lot of bang if it only improves your playing and not much else.



It improves more then just your playing in my opinion. The teacher's can provide great career advice. They all really have some wonderful backgrounds and played with some big cats. Most are studio musicians who have played on many movies, shows etc. as well.

You also learn to become a good working musician as in reading contemporary charts and studio skills for working. Unless you lump those things into playing. Thats one thing that I feel is quite unique to MI compared to jazz heavy schools. It really prepares you for work


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## jsl2h90 (Jul 24, 2012)

Dont be afraid to look into other schools. Its all about what you want out of the curriculum regardless of the "exclusives" that each school may offer or the location/reputation. Theres always AIM, Berklee, and god knows what else. Me personally, im going to try AIM just because the curriculum is a year long and the cost is only about 25k. Find out what suits you best financially, and what suits you as far as how long you want to be in school. Of course also research which one you think wil make you the best musician you can be when you graduate.


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## JStraitiff (Jul 24, 2012)

Fuck it dude. I say you do whatever it is you want to do. Its not my place or anyone else's on here to suggest you get a normal job instead of just doing what you want full time. You'll never succeed if you dont put 100% into it.

Relevant to the actual subject, ive heard two opinions on MI. The first is that they have really interesting and specific programs and courses. For instance they have a shredding class and such. They also have a lot of guest teachers who are very successful musicians that come in and teach classes. In that regard it sounds like a pretty rich experience. Another opinion i have heard is that they are really unorganized and not really very structured. People have claimed they just want your money and nothing else and dont offer enough to charge what they do.

I looked into going there as well. I personally dont have the urge to go to music school much at all anymore but my personal opinion is that if you're looking for the experience with the guest teachers and cool environment then go for it. If you're just looking for a standard education in your instrument or music business, you can probably find a similar program at schools much closer to you. For instance there is a school in albany that i would go to called the college of st. rose. Its not MI or berklee but musicians are everywhere and theres not much one school can teach you that another cannot.


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## ArrowHead (Jul 24, 2012)

Dehumanized said:


> I can't function and be the musician that I want to be by living in this s-hole of a "town". I need people like myself, who want the same things as me, who can share their vision and interpretation of music. And I don't mean share by text on a webpage, I need face to face, I need sessions to get inspired to play more, to learn, to get my head spinning from discovering new ways to do things.



Technically you'd get all these things and spend less money simply moving to a city with a happening scene for a year. If it's the interaction with other musicians and hands on experience you seek, try living in a city like NY, Boston, or LA, and try to get your foot in the door interning at a local studio.


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## Holicx (Jul 25, 2012)

Trial and error are the best teachers you'll ever find bro. Start a career on something else and have music as a hobbie, chances are one day it could become your main source of income. I myself am studying medicine, and hope one day become well known musician


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## The Reverend (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm currently going to school for music, after a very long and involved internal debate.

I think it's the best thing I've done with my life. I'm studying under a very well-respected, Ivy-League educated classical guitarist, I'm around other musicians who play in styles I've never even considered playing in, and I'll be armed to pursue a life on my own terms. For me, Hell is knowing that I'll be like my mom, working at Compaq/HP for 23 years, only to be laid off before I can claim retirement. Or being like my dad, working his way up in the oil industry only to be sent to Mexico to work 10 months out of the year.

With a degree, I'll be able to teach, both privately and in colleges, and I'll be able to compose soundtracks, write songs through commissions, and do studio work. I'm becoming extremely versatile, and I'll be able to assault the music industry in more than just one way. It may not be as easy or thoughtless, but it's what I determined to be right for me. I will be successful based on how hard I try, not the whims of a corporate board. It's risky, but I'd rather fail at chasing my dreams then wake up at 45 having realized nothing and failed at everything.


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## Dehumanized (Jul 25, 2012)

You have my dying appreciation for your responses! Really, thanks! I think I will take the 3 year plan in Sweden and try to use my practise during the third year to get some connections in the U.S.

The reason why I chose studio technichian or studio engineer is so that I can produce, mix and master my own songs as well as having the possibility of getting away from the warehouse gig. There is a possibility that I won't get a job but there are other options such as working with sound within a radiostation, TV or other media related shizzle. This is what the school said:

"The purpose of The Music Production program is to train students in music production
so that they can operate within the extensive music industry that today is one of
Sweden's key export industries. The training is centered in the arts
area, but also courses in business administration, marketing, music law, and
musicology included.
Education is intended to educate music producers with knowledge of artistic
processes, qualities and goals, which can also start a business, promote their
products and protect their rights.
Music Producers are needed in the media business, education, advertising
and public administration."

Sounds pretty general right? 

My input on study is that people give up when they try to be something that they don't want to be. I only want to do music, I don't want to get a Ph.D or become the worlds best brainsurgeon; No matter how much money I'll get, no matter how much "status" that gives me.

If a PhD interests you, then sure. But I just don't know anything I'd rather do than music. If I choose to study to become someone of greater importance or someone who makes a lot of money I'd probably just drop out, I would get burnt out so quickly I wouldn't have time to even notice it. So yes, there might be a lack of jobs in the engineering area but I really don't know a smoother idea. I'd love to have a better plan, I really do. I'll be 21 years old in December and it kind of feels like time is just slipping away and I've accomplished nothing.


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## nickgray (Jul 25, 2012)

Dehumanized said:


> The reason why I chose studio technichian or studio engineer is so that I can produce, mix and master my own songs



You can easily learn that on your own and spend the money on gear instead of wasting it on school.



> but I really don't know a smoother idea


Again, instead of wasting your money on bullshit, get a bunch of gear, a few books, and then save some cash for music lessons. If you're really serious about it, this is a far, far better course of action.

Oh, and do be aware that in the end it might not turn out all that well for you. Far too many people want to do this sort of shit and with technology becoming more powerful and less expensive by the minute, professional studios are becoming less and less relevant.


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## flint757 (Jul 25, 2012)

^^^tis true. I longed to own a studio until I realized the only ones making money were already well known and used by the big wigs.


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## Rap Hat (Jul 25, 2012)

I went to MI for a little bit, under their recording program. At this point in my life I'd already spent some time at Berklee (it was a bit much, and you had to do a bunch of schooling before you could get into their recording program and $$ became an issue) and had been running a studio with a partner for a few years.

I still don't know what I was expecting, but after doing it for a little bit I was completely turned off to the school. The program was very much aimed at people with none-to-little amounts of recording experience. It was seriously easier to network outside of the school, instead of paying 20-30k to learn nothing at all and chat with people I saw outside of class anyway. I also hated Hollywood, but I did live on Hawthorn right across from the Roosevelt and within sight of the Grauman theater.

The funny thing is my studio partner and his buddies had all done the RIT program there back when they were starting and they liked it. It gave them a decent foundation as long as they put a lot into it, and it gave them networking abilities they wouldn't have otherwise based on their skill level.

Living in a place like that gave me some perspectives that NYC and Boston didn't, for that I'm thankful. But the program itself just wasn't for me, and I should've stayed where I was.

E: This was almost a decade ago (and even longer for my partner and his friends). At that point home recording was not as much "everyone and their PC" as "some dudes and a VS880". I haven't done any paid engineering in a while, and I can only imagine how much harder it is now.


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## Dehumanized (Jul 26, 2012)

Rap Hat said:


> I went to MI for a little bit, under their recording program. At this point in my life I'd already spent some time at Berklee (it was a bit much, and you had to do a bunch of schooling before you could get into their recording program and $$ became an issue) and had been running a studio with a partner for a few years.
> 
> I still don't know what I was expecting, but after doing it for a little bit I was completely turned off to the school. The program was very much aimed at people with none-to-little amounts of recording experience. It was seriously easier to network outside of the school, instead of paying 20-30k to learn nothing at all and chat with people I saw outside of class anyway. I also hated Hollywood, but I did live on Hawthorn right across from the Roosevelt and within sight of the Grauman theater.
> 
> ...



I try to be logical about studying. I think that if I study, I will have the time I need to be a freaking awesome musician; not only better at playing in general but also a better composer/producer. Is it worth 3 years? Maybe not. 1 year, definately! Is the process of getting taught the basics, if not even more in depth in mixing, mastering, business administration, marketing, music law, and musicology/theory worth the money? I think so yes.

I have yet to understand anything about mixing and mastering. "Vocals sound good at this and that hz" what do I do then? I have a four band EQ, which one of those 4 bands is supposed to be at this and that hz? Do I cut it off or do I add dB?

I need something more pedagogical. I need someone in person to explain what everything means and how the processes work to make every aspect of a mix work together. I might not get a job afterwards and that's the only thing that kind of makes me not want to go. If I study to be something I don't want to be I might not be motivated and I probably won't have time to practise and learn about the techical stuff in a studio that I need. God I'm stubborn.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 26, 2012)

You're going to study music marketing and business administration when they cant even figure out what to do about the whole....you know....



People not buying music anymore? Thats like going to school to become a switchboard operator or a news paper type setter.


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## nickgray (Jul 26, 2012)

Dehumanized said:


> I have yet to understand anything about mixing and mastering.



First of all you should buy a pair of really good monitors (as well as upgrading your room acoustics) and actually listen music on them. Or at least get some nice high end neutral headphones. You cannot make good mixes if you don't know how a good recording _actually_ sounds.



> "Vocals sound good at this and that hz" what do I do then?


Here's a good example of what EQing is all about:


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jul 26, 2012)

If you have a good business sense, and aren't a slave to industry known "vices", you can land good connections, studio gigs & session work, and more. Those are the real benefits in addition to the actual education.


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## Dehumanized (Jul 26, 2012)

You all have kind of convinced me. I will buy my homestudio and if I'm totally fu*ked in my head and really can't figure anything out, I will get an education. That is if I find that I can learn everything and get mixes that sound just as nice as bulbs on my own. Aside from that, I just need to find time to practise on guitar and learn about mixing and mastering  are there any dvds or good books you can recommend?


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