# Olson Guitarworks (Jared Dines 17 string) - IS A SCAMMER



## oracles (Oct 19, 2017)

So by now, most, if not all of us would have seen this thing doing the rounds as having been built for youtuber Jared Dines.


olson dines gw by
HOWEVER, Olson is simply purchasing and reselling instruments he's ordering off of AliExpress and claiming them as his own, as evidenced here https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-brand-15string-electric-guitar-with-maple-neck/1837209_32831861314.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.281498064IFSyY 



Ali 3 by


Ali 2 by


Ali 1 by


DO NOT give this guy your money.


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## Hollowway (Oct 19, 2017)

I PM'd oracles about this just now, but thought I should probably just post it here, as it may save someone some potential heartache and stress. Last year this guy posted a picture of a Siggery he was letting go for $900, so I jumped on it. I got the thing in the mail, and there were these huge, crappy routes around where the pickups went, and the pickups were in there, but not screwed in to anything, so they were just hanging out. He tried to make a pickguard to hold it in, but he glued the pickguard on, and part of it fell off. There were pencil lines all over the pick guard and guitar, as if he were planning more "mods." I had to do a paypal dispute to get the money back. He claims that he listed all of the issues in the ad, but I submitted screenshots of his had, and none of that was the case. I was super lucky I did the PP thing (as I've been burned a lot in the past). I wish the guy well, but I'd like to see him get honest, and own up to everything. This profession has enough shady characters. Literally the trait that has the best correlation with future success at this point is honesty. I'd take an honest, average luthier over a shady one of any ability.


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## downburst82 (Oct 19, 2017)

Yup as soon as I saw that black 15 string posted on erg nerds (was that you hollowway?) I knew something seemed fishy.

The acoustic he claimed to have built was even more obvious..












Looks like he has now deleted his buisness and personal accounts.


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## Hollowway (Oct 20, 2017)

Yeah, I hadn’t seen those posts. But come on - acoustics are not easy to throw together. So, one minute you’re making a few solid bodies, and then BOOM, out of nowhere you’ve got an acoustic with rosette, binding, inlays, etc, and absolutely no progress pictures. How did he figure someone isn’t going to get suspicious? 
Not that overseas OEM situations are all bad. But lying about it is just weird, and bound to backfire.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 20, 2017)

Looks like he either deleted or hid his FB page.


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## Zalbu (Oct 20, 2017)

The question is if Jared knows if the dude's a scammer or not


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## gunch (Oct 20, 2017)

What a chud


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## Dredg (Oct 20, 2017)

I didn't want to say anything about this on other SM, but he doesn't have the look of a luthier... doesn't look seasoned at all.


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## Hollowway (Oct 21, 2017)

Dredg said:


> I didn't want to say anything about this on other SM, but he doesn't have the look of a luthier... doesn't look seasoned at all.


Oh, he’s WELL seasoned. Seasoned with herb, if you know what I mean.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 21, 2017)

Maybe he can redeem himself and launch a new guitar line with Vertex.


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## iamaom (Oct 21, 2017)

I'm just impressed that we live in a day and age where you can get a 15 string guitar off a chinese internet store for $500. I suspect my first child will probably be ordered off aliexpress and come tattooed with a serial number on its chest.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 21, 2017)

iamaom said:


> I'm just impressed that we live in a day and age where you can get a 15 string guitar off a chinese internet store for $500. I suspect my first child will probably be ordered off aliexpress and come tattooed with a serial number on its chest.


these things are pretty much 100 percent cnc.


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## lewis (Oct 21, 2017)

i found that 17 string on Ali express 2 days ago and thought the same.


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## pondman (Oct 21, 2017)

He's messaged me many times on my facebook page asking if I would like to trade certain guitars he had for one of my customs, they all looked custom made but weren't very attractive ( to put it nicely ) .
I thought he'd had these custom built by someone else. When i saw him post that monster this week saying he built it himself and that he was a builder I couldn't understand why he just didn't copy whichever builds of mine he fancied , now I know why.


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## Hollowway (Oct 21, 2017)

Looks like he turned his FB page back on. He’s not saying anything about this, so apparently he’s hoping everyone forgets.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 21, 2017)

the internet never forgets. he's going to be deleting posts from now until the end of days.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 21, 2017)

It dawned on me last night that I knew this guy years ago from My Space, he would upload pictures of crowds and Alexi Laiho's rigs claiming they were from his headline tours. So its no real surprise he's still trying to pretend. 

He used to upload some really out of key guitar videos but after a ton of criticism he got his act together and really put the time into playing and bettering himself, quite a shame to see him resort to scamming people now.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 21, 2017)

I doubt Jared cares. I am sure he is writing all of this crap off as "business" expenses for his youtube career.

EDIT: Well, I was certainly wrong!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 21, 2017)

He knows.


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## Frostbite (Oct 21, 2017)

ArtDecade said:


> I doubt Jared cares. I am sure he is writing all of this crap off as "business" expenses for his youtube career.


 

Nah he's pretty pissed


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## Siggevaio (Oct 21, 2017)

The dude posts a picture of him holding the guitar next to a freaking pink tricycle. Let's order a guitar from that dude.


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## cip 123 (Oct 21, 2017)

This same dude came up here a while ago when he made some abomination of guitar, then I think he ducked for cover after some hate. 

Can't wait to see what he has next time he appears!


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## cmtd (Oct 21, 2017)

Guitar world even ran a news story on this clown

http://www.guitarworld.com/gear-new...rks-pulls-back-curtain-17-string-guitar/31936


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## couverdure (Oct 21, 2017)

cmtd said:


> Guitar world even ran a news story on this clown
> 
> http://www.guitarworld.com/gear-new...rks-pulls-back-curtain-17-string-guitar/31936


This guy's career is fucked now that he got exposed by the person who wanted to give him attention.


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## Dredg (Oct 21, 2017)

From the Guitar World article comments: Apparently someone contacted the AliExpress maker and was able to extract THEIR final product pics: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2UHaP2aGjuHLXhaMlpBbXl4d2M

Not even surprised that they're better quality pics than Olsen's reveal photo.


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## Hollowway (Oct 22, 2017)

Plus, he goes on and on about how life dealt him lemons, and people should give him a chance, etc, but he spends all his time smoking pot, and purposely lies about everything he does. He digs his own grave time after time.


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## Dredg (Oct 22, 2017)

I'm just surprised someone was dumb enough to use AliExpress as their ghostbuilder.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 22, 2017)

Wow, this is fucking pure stupidity all the way around. I would not put anything past a YouTuber for some dramattention. I hope Jared isn't involved in some shitty fucking scheme like this, but I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past a YouTuber. 

As for life dealing that dude lemons, go piss up a rope while laying on your back. No one cares, and life has dealt everyone lemons. Whomever exposed this godawful tub of shit for the lying dirtbag he is deserves a medal, because he did the internet guitar community a huge service. Everyone else who has exposed the rest of what this guy does as a fraudulent forgery also deserve a round of applause. 

And I understand; it sucks wanting to aspire to be great in some way, shape, or form on the guitar/in the guitar community, or music in general for that matter. However, the best way to get drummed out of town for being a giant piece of human garbage is to lie, cheat, steal, con, and basically manipulate people into thinking you're someone else than what you really are. If you're a cool dude and the people can see you are trying, they'll rally behind you and cheer on your rise whether it's as a guitar player getting better, or a guitarist on YouTube getting bigger, or whatever.

In closing, fuck this guy, and if he was going to go the custom Chinese route, fine, but he should've presented that narrative to the customers _honestly. _


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## marcwormjim (Oct 22, 2017)

Dredg said:


> I'm just surprised someone was dumb enough to use AliExpress as their ghostbuilder.



Even if the moron didn’t know his ghostbuilder had a google-indexed storefront, it only raises the question of how he found them in the first place. Like, Mason Marangella at least had the foresight to hide his product under goop until someone bothered to look under the goop - Whereas this brainiac just emailed a PNG of his logo to DongFactory2259 and thought his tracks were covered.


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## Edika (Oct 22, 2017)

So many trussrods! A really small part of me is kinda intrigued by this plank of wood, the ridiculousness of it calls out to me!


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## Demiurge (Oct 22, 2017)

So let's get this straight: a guitarist of the internet-metal persuasion, driven by obtaining something attention-getting over pragmatic, contracts with an unproven builder in a deal that is too good to be true and finds himself bamboozled? I wouldn't believe it.


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## Hollowway (Oct 22, 2017)

He best part of this is after he was found out to be lying about having hand built it, he said that he had actually hired a US based luthier to build it for him, and THAT luthier was the bad one who was lying. Exactly how far is this guy going to go with these lies? It’s more ludicrous every time.


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## lewis (Oct 22, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> He best part of this is after he was found out to be lying about having hand built it, he said that he had actually hired a US based luthier to build it for him, and THAT luthier was the bad one who was lying. Exactly how far is this guy going to go with these lies? It’s more ludicrous every time.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 22, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> He best part of this is after he was found out to be lying about having hand built it, he said that he had actually hired a US based luthier to build it for him, and THAT luthier was the bad one who was lying. Exactly how far is this guy going to go with these lies? It’s more ludicrous every time.



fully expect other ghost builder to pop up magically and claim to have in fact hired another ghost builder


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## BenjaminW (Oct 22, 2017)

Can I ask what the point of a fucking 17 string guitar is?


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## Demiurge (Oct 22, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> Can I ask what the point of a fucking 17 string guitar is?



Being able to say that you own a 17-string guitar, I guess. The buyer here could just take a cue from the seller, though, and realize that it's much easier to lie about having/doing something on the internet than it is to actually have/do it.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 22, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> Can I ask what the point of a fucking 17 string guitar is?


THIS. I think even 10 strings is pushing it, but that thread on here with the 10 string guitar was very cool, and for that user, seemed to produce great results.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 22, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> Can I ask what the point of a fucking 17 string guitar is?



Since it was for Jared Dines, I can guess it's meant to be a novelty instrument for the sake of one obnoxious monetised youtube "parody" video.


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## Dayn (Oct 22, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> fully expect other ghost builder to pop up magically and claim to have in fact hired another ghost builder


It's ghost builders all the way down. No-one actually built this instrument. It's an anomaly.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 22, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Since it was for Jared Dines, I can guess it's meant to be a novelty instrument for the sake of one _*obnoxious *_monetised youtube "parody" video.


The word you're looking for is "cringey." "Cancerous" could also work, as well.


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## BenjaminW (Oct 22, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Since it was for Jared Dines, I can guess it's meant to be a novelty instrument for the sake of one obnoxious monetised youtube "parody" video.


There was a video I saw of Davie504 playing on a 15 string bass and I thought it was just ridiculous.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 22, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> There was a video I saw of Davie504 playing on a 15 string bass and I thought it was just ridiculous.




I saw that video.

Absurdity aside, that bass sounds fuckin' dope. Has a piano like growl to it.


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## Necris (Oct 22, 2017)

This is the most I've been entertained by anything related to Jared Dines.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Oct 22, 2017)

Fuck this guy!! As a community of musicians and people who truly love guitars and all music equipment, this is ridiculous. Why would you want to rip people off like this blows my mind. I have to work extremely hard to get every single piece off gear I get. If this was to happen to me it would set me back for a long time and to think some poor excuse for a person would do this to anyone is disheartening and really makes me worry a little. I even told my girl that’s why I love this forum and the community that’s on here when this happened, at least the most of us actually help each other out and look out for each other.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2017)

This is comical on both sides.


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## Hollowway (Oct 22, 2017)

Dawn of the Shred said:


> Fuck this guy!! As a community of musicians and people who truly love guitars and all music equipment, this is ridiculous. Why would you want to rip people off like this blows my mind. I have to work extremely hard to get every single piece off gear I get. If this was to happen to me it would set me back for a long time and to think some poor excuse for a person would do this to anyone is disheartening and really makes me worry a little. I even told my girl that’s why I love this forum and the community that’s on here when this happened, at least the most of us actually help each other out and look out for each other.



Yeah, and the sad thing is this happens ALL THE TIME. I've personally been burned a number of times. This was one I got lucky on, because I could paypal dispute it. (Well, not this exact build, but the the fucked up Siggery I bought from him). My guess is that this guy thinks that "business" is all about screwing over the other person. And, of course, he doesn't have a job, and is a raging pothead.


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## BenjaminW (Oct 22, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I saw that video.
> 
> Absurdity aside, that bass sounds fuckin' dope. Has a piano like growl to it.


I agree


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 22, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> I agree


Holy shit, that's the fucked-up 15-string bass that made the rounds online awhile back.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TENNESSEE...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## marcwormjim (Oct 23, 2017)

Anyone trying to justify the existence of the 17 string guitar should first justify the existence of Jared Dines. I can’t be the only one hoping he had Olson working on an ass cancer cure, too.


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## jmeezle (Oct 23, 2017)

Both parties in this deserve what they had coming to them.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 23, 2017)

wow seems like jared went to a lot of people's houses and forced them to watch his videos. scary.


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## Eden (Oct 23, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Since it was for Jared Dines, I can guess it's meant to be a novelty instrument for the sake of one obnoxious monetised youtube "parody" video.



Dude's entire career is based off of djent jokes and cheap humor. I'm honestly surprised he cares as much as he does with as much endorsements and premium guitars he gets sent his way.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 23, 2017)

Eden said:


> Dude's entire career is based off of djent jokes and cheap humor. I'm honestly surprised he cares as much as he does with as much endorsements and premium guitars he gets sent his way.



Maybe he doesn't actually get to keep the gear that is sent his way


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## TheTrooper (Oct 23, 2017)

Oh Wow, Keyboard Warriors on SS.org.
Nobody saw that coming.


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## Eden (Oct 23, 2017)

cwhitey2 said:


> Maybe he doesn't actually get to keep the gear that is sent his way


probably not, I used to be a fan so every now and then I'll watch one of his vids still, it looks like he's been holding onto a good number of the guitars, although I'm not sure how many he probably bought


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## ArtDecade (Oct 23, 2017)

Jared has made me chuckle a few times, but I'm not his intended audience. He found a way to make cash and play some music, which is more than most people around here can say.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 23, 2017)

The point of the 17 string guitar was to wind people up which it is doing a great job of and he hasn't even done a video yet. The problem with triggering people like that is it comes with a tidal wave of hate. There's only so long he can brush that off. 



cwhitey2 said:


> Maybe he doesn't actually get to keep the gear that is sent his way



He certainly does. I know guys with a fraction of his reach who get flooded with free instruments and gear. A friend changed endorsements recently, sold all his old free guitars and got 5 new ones.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 23, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> He certainly does. I know guys with a fraction of his reach who get flooded with free instruments and gear. A friend changed endorsements recently, sold all his old free guitars and got 5 new ones.




That's crazy, but I understand why someone would do that


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## bostjan (Oct 23, 2017)

BenjaminW said:


> There was a video I saw of Davie504 playing on a 15 string bass and I thought it was just ridiculous.



I think I've commented on that video before. I'm not sure which string he hit on the last note, but aside from that, he doesn't ever touch the lowest five or six strings. Pretty sure that lowest string isn't even remotely playable, since it's visibly sagging horrendously under it's own weight and lack of tension.

Yay for 15 string basses, though.

I've seen a dozen of them on the internet, yet I think maybe one that was an actual playable instrument across all of its strings.

Maybe we should first figure out how to perfect the damn eight string basses. There are some nice ones out there, but I think there is still R&D that needs to be done at that level, before we go full throttle past 10 and 11 and 12 strings into 13, 14, 15, 16, or 17 string basses. Maybe strings made of denser material or less flexible material or multiscale combined with some other tricks and really great electronics and whatnot.

Personally, I'd love to play a subcontrabass (octave below E) no matter if it was 4 string or even 3 strings, as long as it was designed to properly play as a sub-contrabass instrument.

As for the OT discussion - fuck this guy. There has to be some criminal law that was broken here, although I doubt it's be more than some sort of low-level fraud or some sort of tampering maybe. At any rate, fuck this guy. I do wonder what the quality of these basses would be like, though.


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## BenjaminW (Oct 23, 2017)

Eden said:


> Dude's entire career is based off of djent jokes and cheap humor. I'm honestly surprised he cares as much as he does with as much endorsements and premium guitars he gets sent his way.


But does it djent? That’s the question we need answered.


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## Shoeless_jose (Oct 23, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The word you're looking for is "cringey." "Cancerous" could also work, as well.



Cringe is key, makes me want to pull a Tobias from Arrested Devlopment and go with the DOUUUUCHE CHILL


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 24, 2017)

I thought Jared's early (like first couple of months early) content was really good. After that, it wasn't my taste anymore and thus I stopped watching it.
I'm not sure how that should effect how I feel about him getting scammed by some sleazeball though...? Pretty sure no matter what I think of what he does with his YouTube channel that's a pretty awful thing to have happen to you. 

He _is_ being a bit of a drama queen about the idea of not being able to do the video, though; since it sounds like he's still going to at least get the guitar. Even if that thing is practically a plank, you can still make a 5 minute gimmick video with it. Can't be worse than what he used for the 2016 video.


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## dr_game0ver (Oct 24, 2017)

But that's the whole point of is "djent" videos, playing something stupid and impractical.


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## thraxil (Oct 24, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Since it was for Jared Dines, I can guess it's meant to be a novelty instrument for the sake of one obnoxious monetised youtube "parody" video.



Yeah. In this case, having something to do with it being "2017".


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## bostjan (Oct 24, 2017)

Better order that 18 string guitar from China now - only a couple of months before it's time to shoot a New Year's video.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 24, 2017)

i still feel he should get his money back from olsen and then just buy the aliexpress guitar fro the video. they can probably do it in just 4 weeks.


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## Eden (Oct 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Maybe we should first figure out how to perfect the damn eight string basses. There are some nice ones out there, but I think there is still R&D that needs to be done at that level, before we go full throttle past 10 and 11 and 12 strings into 13, 14, 15, 16, or 17 string basses. Maybe strings made of denser material or less flexible material or multiscale combined with some other tricks and really great electronics and whatnot.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to play a subcontrabass (octave below E) no matter if it was 4 string or even 3 strings, as long as it was designed to properly play as a sub-contrabass instrument.



I wonder if there is a material similar to the rubbery one they use for those uke-bases. they seem to keep the standard bass tuning well enough on a mini-scale, I wonder if they'd be useful for those bewilderingly low tunings


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## bostjan (Oct 25, 2017)

You ever played a bass uke? 

Don't get me wrong, an instrument with an ~18" scale length doing a low E is impressive as hell, but honestly, the tone isn't that different from a rubber band, and playing them feels like rubbing slippery erasers on your fingers. I *hate* the feeling when the strings roll under my fingers. There is no brightness at all in the tone. Also, it's really weird, but the strings get thinner as you tighten them.

In theory, though, if you used those silicone/polyethylene bass uke string materials to make 40" strings for upright bass, you should be able to play subcontra on upright no problem. I'd love to give it a shot, but the manufacturers of these strings don't seem interested in offering anything longer than ~32".


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## BenjaminW (Oct 30, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Better order that 18 string guitar from China now - only a couple of months before it's time to shoot a New Year's video.


But does it djent?


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## bostjan (Oct 31, 2017)

Ha ha, first ask "does it even play?"


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## ixlramp (Nov 24, 2017)

Dayn said:


> It's ghost builders all the way down


LOL.


bostjan said:


> I think I've commented on that video before. I'm not sure which string he hit on the last note, but aside from that, he doesn't ever touch the lowest five or six strings. Pretty sure that lowest string isn't even remotely playable, since it's visibly sagging horrendously under it's own weight and lack of tension.


The lowest 3 seems to be similar gauge to the one above, and therefore undertensioned.

Very difficult to string a 15 in all-fourths. I used to think it was impossible, but i saw on FB that Octave 4 Plus have made a set going down to F000, using a (very loose) .400. This F is of the sequence F A# D# G# C# F# B E A D G so is 3 strings below the G#00 we see in use on Kalium Quakes and various 12/13 string ERBs.
So a 15 ERB in all-fourths is actually 'possible': F A# D# G# C# F# B E A D G C F Bb Eb.
But of course the lowest 3 would only be of use for some kind of extreme experimental sound art. To my ears i find the C#0 the lowest musically meaningful pitch.


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## MickD7 (Nov 25, 2017)

Screw the “luither” in this case for sure. I hate people that scam musicians and artists, I’ve seen it happen a lot. 

But I’m finding it hard to believe that Dines won’t whip up some cringe filled videos for the next 12months. Both parties involved have zero sympathy from me what so ever and if you even bought into the fact that a luthier would make such an instrument for that price from the get go you are an idiot. As harsh as that sounds and as many negative likes or whatever I may cop from this post.

Next up 

Top 5 things all (insert instrument and it’s player cringe inducing video) get scammed by from buying a guitar sight unseen from a non reputiable builder 
Top 5 beginner riffs for upcoming (insert instrument and it’s player cringe inducing video)
Top 5 in audible screeching by Steve T and Dines having a fidget spinner shred war

Shit pretty much writes itself.


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## couverdure (Nov 26, 2017)

MickD7 said:


> Screw the “luither” in this case for sure. I hate people that scam musicians and artists, I’ve seen it happen a lot.
> 
> But I’m finding it hard to believe that Dines won’t whip up some cringe filled videos for the next 12months. Both parties involved have zero sympathy from me what so ever and if you even bought into the fact that a luthier would make such an instrument for that price from the get go you are an idiot. As harsh as that sounds and as many negative likes or whatever I may cop from this post.
> 
> ...


At least his target audience gets what he makes, unlike the "luthier" who "builds" "guitars" for guitarists like Dines.


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## Kwert (Nov 26, 2017)

In Jared’s video about the issue, he mentions that people vouched for the scammer. I’d like to know who those people are...


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## bostjan (Nov 27, 2017)

ixlramp said:


> LOL.
> 
> The lowest 3 seems to be similar gauge to the one above, and therefore undertensioned.
> 
> ...



This is my biggest problem with ERB. I think anything above Bb or below F# is pretty much extra special range territory. So, if you make a nine string bass tuned F# B E A D G C F Bb, you are, IMO, already pushing the limits. I have yet to play a nine string bass that feels like a real instrument (granted I've only ever touched a couple of real ERB's), but a low-budget nine string bass is already setting my eyebrow to raise up pretty high...


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## iamaom (Nov 27, 2017)

bostjan said:


> but a low-budget nine string bass is already setting my eyebrow to raise up pretty high...


Well he's not actually going to use it as an instrument, he's going to make a 2 minute long video where he makes funny faces with the thing in his hands. The advert revenue from 14 year olds who discovered djent a year ago will more than pay for the cost of the bass.


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## bostjan (Nov 27, 2017)

True. Dines is good at entertaining whatever demographic he targets. I guess that could be taken as a compliment or as an insult, depending on your outlook on things. 

My youtube videos sometimes get no views at all, so I'm pretty horrible at even finding a demographic to target at all, but I love making songs and animations and whatever surrealistic poorly edited nonsense I can come up with.

I'm sure Dines would make better use of a 15 string bass than I would. I'd love to have a six or maybe seven string bass with a really good low F#. Not really a novel idea, though. I would suggest though, that there are no longer any worthwhile novel ideas for instruments out there to which anyone would pay any attention, anyway.


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## ixlramp (Nov 27, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I think anything above Bb or below F# is pretty much extra special range territory


I somewhat agree. Low C# is extreme and difficult to get a good tone from such a thick stiff string.
Top Eb4 is difficult to acheive on 34/35", you need a high strength .007 or .008 that is thin and/or fragile.


bostjan said:


> I have yet to play a nine string bass that feels like a real instrument


Not sure what this means, personal taste maybe. My 6 when tuned in fifths .145 to .013p was a good instrument to play.


bostjan said:


> I would suggest though, that there are no longer any worthwhile novel ideas for instruments out there to which anyone would pay any attention, anyway.


Ha, so untrue, maybe it seems that way because we can't forsee the next innovation, but innovation will always happen.


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## bostjan (Nov 27, 2017)

I guess we'll see. 

Guitar and bass innovations are definitely slowing down the past 20 years or so, and the past few really revolutionary ideas affecting guitar and bass design and playability have been widely met with apathy from the masses. It really not what I want to see, but it seems obvious to me that the number of people appreciating stuff like ultralight guitars, sustainers, new hardware alloys, new pickup principles, etc., is dwindling.


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## marcwormjim (Nov 28, 2017)

iamaom said:


> Well he's not actually going to use it as an instrument, he's going to make a 2 minute long video where he makes funny faces with the thing in his hands. The advert revenue from 14 year olds who discovered djent a year ago will more than pay for the cost of the bass.



+1


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## couverdure (Nov 28, 2017)

Sure is bitter old men in here.


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## prlgmnr (Nov 28, 2017)

couverdure said:


> Sure is bitter old men in here.


Yep, the only true way to be is just to like everything equally because all things are exactly the same.


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## bostjan (Nov 28, 2017)

IKR. I mean, I think I can see both sides of it. Because of youtube's targetted advertisements for their content, metalheads are being bombarded with ad's for Dines and the like, so, it follows logically that some people will be irritated by this over-exposure. On the other hand, a peer (in that Dines is a metalhead and sort of a guitarist - moreso for others mentioned in this thread) is finding success doing something closely related to music, so we should be supportive of that. You see it, and you might think "gee, I could do better at that," but then, really, none of us are, for whatever reason. Just like everything else, whether you like Dines's success or not is a complex thing.


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## Ebony (Nov 28, 2017)

I see all this "54-string all-in-one unplayable monster"-spectacle as a symptom of something far more sinister and depressing.

The 12 Equal Temperament has, for the most part, run its course.

Sure, there are a_ few_ select artists mostly working within highly dissonant and/or rhythmical extremes that still innovates, but 99% of everything "new" released today is just recycled combinations of notes we've all heard a million times before.


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## bostjan (Nov 28, 2017)

Ebony said:


> I see all this "54-string all-in-one unplayable monster"-spectacle as a symptom of something far more sinister and depressing.
> 
> The 12 Equal Temperament has, for the most part, run its course.
> 
> Sure, there are a_ few_ select artists mostly working within highly dissonant and/or rhythmical extremes that still innovates, but 99% of everything "new" released today is just recycled combinations of notes we've all heard a million times before.



Haha, funny you should mention 12-ET. My last 5 releases have all been in either 19-ET or 24-ET, yet I've had people say that they were expecting it to be more unconventional than it is. You have guys out there like Chris Vaisvil releasing something in a completely different tuning system every couple of weeks and no one seems to bat an eye. It's all about people's expectations - they expect music to sound a certain way, based upon labels, and when it doesn't sound the way they expect, they tend not to like it. For example, write two songs - a country song with four chords and lyrics about a girl and a truck and throw in just a little twang, then write a conventional death metal song with 9/8 kick and with 4/4 snare and backbeat, using a ten note scale tuned to drop G with your typical pig squeals. Now insert the death metal song into the third verse of the country song and see if anyone likes it. Spoiler alert - I will probably love it if only for the irony, but you are not going to fetch a lot of positive attention for that.

On the other hand, write a four chord box-pattern pop song (z.B. G - D - A - C) in 4/4 on a straight eighth-note rhythm, with lyrics along the lines of "Girl, you are a ho, when you drop that ass down low" and if you can keep from being sued, and hook up with the right producer and publicist, you will have a #1 single (bonus points if you get a quasi-relevent rap artist featured in the third verse). 

It's not about what has been done or what can be done or what has the vague potential to be done or not, it's about people's expectations and what they find entertaining. Within the general public, few people have the patience, or, dare I say, the attention span, to really work their way out of the "box" these days. Top selling songs have four chords and feature artists that the media tells you are "hip." Top selling movies follow the typical mad-libs style of plot and star actors that the media tells you are "hip." Top selling games are now mobile games where you swipe something over and over or tap on something monotonously and are rewarded with, well, IDK... It's not that there are no more new ideas, it's that people are getting, generally, more and more uncomfortable with new ideas, so it's all about rehashing old ideas that make people feel unchallenged.


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## ixlramp (Nov 28, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I would suggest though, that there are no longer any worthwhile novel ideas for instruments out there to which anyone would pay any attention, anyway.


I took this the wrong way, innovation will continue, but your point is more about the attention it gets.
I agree that mainstream guitar culture is very conservative, still stuck in the 60s. I include superstrats in this as they are essentially strats pretending to be modern.


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## bostjan (Nov 29, 2017)

ixlramp said:


> I took this the wrong way, innovation will continue, but your point is more about the attention it gets.
> I agree that mainstream guitar culture is very conservative, still stuck in the 60s. I include superstrats in this as they are essentially strats pretending to be modern.



I think there are a few of us on this forum, in particular, against that general grain.

I got super excited about seven strings in the 1990's. When I finally got one, so many other guitarists assumed I got it to either play Steve Vai songs or Korn songs, not to play my own songs, which, at the time, puzzled me, but now I see it. It's just so much easier for people to categorize things visually. I see a seven string guitar, therefore, Nümetal / I see an eight string guitar, therefore Djent / I see a little sillhoutto of a man, therefore Scaramoush will do the Fandango / I see a thunderbolt or lightning, therefore... Sometimes it's necessary, though - see a tiger, therefore dangerous animal, see a skull and crossbones on a bottle of liquid, therefore don't drink it, etc. But I think what's going on with music is that the age of pushing limits (the modern age) is over, and we're on to the postmodern age in full stride now. Doing something to try to break through the limits of metal or rock or even jazz is *so 20th century*, and now listeners are either curating the classics or enjoying standard formula pop music.


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## Splenetic (Nov 29, 2017)

bostjan said:


> "Girl, you are a ho, when you drop that ass down low"



Son, that's a good bit of lyricin right there, where can i buy this on cassette?


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