# Mac vs other notebooks



## Polyrhythmic (Feb 23, 2012)

It seems like most band use a macbook to implement clicktracks, backingtracks, patch changes etc.. in a live situation nowadays. I'd like to have some insight on why exactly a mac gives the best performance in such a situation, since neither me nor my bandmates own one right now. What are the major downsides of using other systems? Somebody told me that for example you'd need something like an external sound card while a mac doesn't need that. To what extent is this true? Please help me with your thoughts and experience!


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## Winspear (Feb 23, 2012)

That's not true at all. With most setups you will need an external interface with Mac or Pc. Stability is the reason people use Macs.

However, these days I'm reading a fair amount of posts to suggests that the whole stability war isn't really an issue anymore.

I'd run a good 50 hours testing before gigging on either.


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## xeonblade (Feb 23, 2012)

Id +1 on Win 7 builds.
I've never crashed my pc and it's been a lot under full CPU and RAM usage. And it doesn't even have latest updates.


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## Polyrhythmic (Feb 23, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> That's not true at all. With most setups you will need an external interface with Mac or Pc.



What kind of interface are you referring to?


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## Razzy (Feb 23, 2012)

xeonblade said:


> And it doesn't even have latest updates.



That's probably why.


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## Winspear (Feb 23, 2012)

Interface=External Soundcard. Something like a Focusrite Saffire 6 USB (there's a shit ton of brands and models but they all serve the same purpose).

Firstly, it provides the seperated connections to send out the clicktrack and backing track seperately as needed. (Possible with a normal output and a stereo cable, though).
Secondly would give MIDI connections for patch changes. 

They use ASIO drivers which provide lower latency and better stabiltiy for audio. Important, if you are running software with tracks in it and patch changes and the like. Especially important if you are using said software for amp sims. 

You CAN get ASIO4ALL drivers to provide this on the built in soundcard, though. 

Depending on your needs, that may be just fine. I don't know how you'd go about the MIDI, though. Can probably get some USB midi output box or something.


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## Max_SMW (Feb 26, 2012)

I think all the criticism about Windows reaches back to the Vista era, I`ve had my self-build Win 7 PC for about 1 1/2 years now running 8 hours a day and it didn`t crash one single time, whereas the brand new Macbook Pro of my bandmate crashes very often when running Logic 9 (legal copy).

Just don`t download shitloads of crap on to your PC and there`s nothing to worry about. PCs are like cars, if you smash them with a hammer every day they will eventually break... and no matter if Mac or Windows 

You can get direct sound out of either using the internal soundcard, but that will leave you very limited when it comes to different routing options, so some kind of external interface would be necessary for both.


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## velvetkevorkian (Feb 26, 2012)

The "Mac is better for creative stuff" argument is a legacy from way before the Vista era, but is pretty much irrelevant now IMO unless you want to run something that is OS specific.

One thing that the MacBooks do have in their favour is uniformly excellent build quality. I recently upgraded from mid/high end Dell (which was roughly the same price and spec as a MacBook Pro of the same age) to a MacBook pro, and the difference is pretty astonishing. It's pretty difficult to find a Windows laptop with good build quality for a comparable price, especially if you want a screen other than 15.4"/1366x768. 

I suspect the reason that they're so common is because a lot of creative types have them anyway and so naturally bring them into band stuff by default.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 26, 2012)

velvetkevorkian said:


> One thing that the MacBooks do have in their favour is uniformly excellent build quality. I recently upgraded from mid/high end Dell (which was roughly the same price and spec as a MacBook Pro of the same age) to a MacBook pro, and the difference is pretty astonishing. It's pretty difficult to find a Windows laptop with good build quality for a comparable price, especially if you want a screen other than 15.4"/1366x768.



That's a little skewed as Dell's prices have been climbing, but quality dropping for quite some time now. Just look at what they did/are doing to Alienware. 

Lenovo, MSi, Sager, and some Samsung laptops offer quality that is, in my opinion, significantly greater than that of the Mac products at similar and same price points. 

As far as hardware is concerned, the only thing that Mac really has is the looks, which isn't for long as most major laptop makers are starting to copy and expand on.


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## KingAenarion (Feb 27, 2012)

I think the one thing that Mac's DO have going for them is strict hardware to software control... which means strict driver control as well, because drivers only have to be written for a very specific set of hardware


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## Hollowway (Feb 27, 2012)

Yeah I'm super happy with Win7. I've been using it on my work computer and on my home lappy (Sager) and it's suuuuper stable. I also have a mac laptop, and the only thing I will say about the Mac OS is that after months/years of using macs they don't slow down. PCs do. I'm not sure what it has to do with, but I'm quite sure that if you limit program installations and other stuff like that it will help. For instance, my work computer and laptop are built to order, not a crappy Dell with a bunch of crapware already installed. If you get a Sager or something like that it will come with literally NOTHING but the bare essentials on it. And if you never install stuff on it it will keep on trucking, would be my guess. 

That being said, I use my mac for recording. I've used a PC back in the XP days, and while it worked fine, I just like that if you stay within the mac realm it's sooo easy to plug and play. I use Logic (express) with an Apogee Duet. I've had to do very little homework on getting it up to speed, as compared to the PC.

But as Max said, you'll pay more. My Sager laptop has way better specs than my mac (mainly due to the GPU) but cost far far less.


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## iamdunker (Feb 27, 2012)

I have been using win7 for my daw with no problems at all.


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## klinic (Mar 1, 2012)

I've built many desktops (Windows XP, Vista and Win 7 and Ubuntu/Kubutu) and until last year was very much a Windows person. I know there is very, very little difference between a Mac and PC on a hardware level. I was, until I stopped gaming and started doing more animation very anti Apple.

I ended up buying a MacBook Pro for Uni seeing as I didn't really see any other laptops with the resolution, power, battery life and build quality that I wanted and have since then become a Mac person. I just find the whole OS a lot more fluid to use. I prefer the little things about the OS which most people seem to find annoying. I love the lack of fullscreen (until Lion) and preferred it's way of maximising and use of spaces. Everything could also be done in Windows of course but I personally find it a bit more clunky. I also think OS X has much better audio drivers and makes better use of my RAM and CPU cores.

Still, it's really personal opinion and budget in the end I think. Both are very functional operating systems. I just favour OS X.


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## Soubi7string (Mar 2, 2012)

I own a mac for a few reasons:
Stability
I don't trust Windows after Xp Pro
I like how it runs
ease of access


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## AnarchyDivine88 (Mar 6, 2012)

My friend is offering me his 2009 Macbook pro for $800. it has 4 GB SDRAM, 2.8 GHz Intel core 2 duo processor, 15.4" LED screen, 500 GB harddrive. For less money or around the same price I could buy a brand new Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, Sony, etc. with 6 or even 8 GB RAM, i5 or i7 processor, and 750 GB harddrive.

I need to compose, record, and edit music. I'll be using sibelius, guitar pro, trilian, omnisphere, Massive, Superior drummer, and whichever recording program I end up settling on. Plus I'll be using an interface, MIDI controller, and sometimes a headphone amp/DAC.

What do you all think I should do? Do I really need any more than 4 GB SDRAM? And wouldn't a 2.8 GHz dual core processor be good enough? Or would I be better off with the higher specs of one of the windows options? People always say that Macs are smoother and more reliable, but I've also heard that if you run Linux on a PC it's even better than a Mac.

I would have posted my own thread, but the topic is almost identical, so I figured it would be better to post this here. Could anyone give me some advice on this?


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## darren (Mar 6, 2012)

MacBooks are also pretty solid for road use. They're machined out of solid billets of aluminum, whereas a lot of Windows laptops are still a mix of metal and plastic.


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## Vinchester (Mar 6, 2012)

AnarchyDivine88 said:


> 4 GB SDRAM



I thought the world stopped using SDRAM, like, five years ago? 
Definitely get a new laptop instead of that 2 year old Mac.

My friend who is an avid Mac user told me that its stability is the work of Mac OS X which does a better job at managing cpu/ram than Windows does. Which makes me facepalm at everyone who spent $$$ on a fancy Macbook and then runs Windows on it 

Personally I'm not going to use a Mac anytime soon. I know how to build and maintain a PC so I'll try to learn and make it works for recording too. Also can't justify that extra $ for a product from the Holy Church of Apple.
Btw, my MSI laptop with i5 2.2ghz and 4GB ram runs very very fast. When I'm away from my main rig I plug in a pod and record stuff and it never had any issue


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## Hollowway (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah, I'd avoid that old Mac as well.

And I'm one of the people that runs Windows on a Mac. I have Parallels running Windows 7 alongside OS X. It might seem weird, but running stuff in a virtual environment is Awesome. And I can run all my "windows only" software right there, seamlessly, with my Mac stuff. If Macs had better GPUs I'd be all over them.

And while it's true that Macs cost more than some notebooks, I don't think it's fair to single out Mac as the expensive brand. Sounds like no one's ever shopped for a Sony. There are plenty of expensive and plenty of cheap computers. And generally, you get what you pay for. You can't really compare a MacBook Pro with a cheaper Dell or something. That being said, I am a HUGE fan of Sager and MSI notebooks for the specs and value. IMO definitely the best deal out there.


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## asmegin_slayer (Mar 8, 2012)

AnarchyDivine88 said:


> My friend is offering me his 2009 Macbook pro for $800. it has 4 GB SDRAM, 2.8 GHz Intel core 2 duo processor, 15.4" LED screen, 500 GB harddrive. For less money or around the same price I could buy a brand new Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, Sony, etc. with 6 or even 8 GB RAM, i5 or i7 processor, and 750 GB harddrive.
> 
> I need to compose, record, and edit music. I'll be using sibelius, guitar pro, trilian, omnisphere, Massive, Superior drummer, and whichever recording program I end up settling on. Plus I'll be using an interface, MIDI controller, and sometimes a headphone amp/DAC.
> 
> ...



I'm using a 2008 imac core 2 duo 2.4 ghz machine that I just updated it with 4 gigs of ram. I can run logic 9 with a lot of plugins like guitar rig 5/superior 2 and 30 tracks of drums/bass/vocals with no issues. OSX does a great job handling the hardware just fine.

Does that macbook pro have the multitouch track pad? If so, you'll love the SHIT out of that thing! Silly thing to say but after you use that track pad, you'll start doing the hand the same hand gestures on a pc and think WTF!!!??


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## greglecompte (May 31, 2012)

well the big thing now is solid state hard drive as vibrations can screw up a normal hard drive and make the comp crash this is not a problem for solid state drives as they have no spinning disk or moving parts


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## axxessdenied (Jun 7, 2012)

Windows 7 is definitely more stable than OS X from my personal experience. I had gotten an iMac to play with logic pro. I hated the damn thing. I had to restart it on a regular basis because of degrading performance. Had to repeatedly fix file permissions to fix issues with the mac hanging during shutdown. It was definitely not a smooth experience for me. I much prefer to be on Linux over OS X. 

Windows 7 just sat there laughing at me. 
Sold the iMac after 10.6.3 came out and broke the computer pretty much. The software update caused the video card to overheat and freeze. fantastic upgrade, tested by going back and forth from 10.6.2... no crashing at all. 10.6.3 within an hour it would be frozen. Waited on two patches but the problem just got worse. Got rid of it. Haven't looked back since. Plus, reaper.fm is fantastic. I use a presonus firestudio project interface.


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## JamesM (Jun 7, 2012)

I have no problems at all on my Macbook Pro, pretty much ever. 

I did, but my logic board went out and they replaced it for free. Gravy now.


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## troyguitar (Jun 7, 2012)

The answer is to buy a business-class notebook, not the consumer-grade crap you see in retail stores. Better build qualities because they are made to be used every day in work environments, usually better warranties too.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 7, 2012)

I have a pretty high end mac setup at the moment and honestly, its not that much more reelable than my old PC with Windows 7. I actually find things kind of freeze up more often and its super annoying finding certain programs too... 

That being said I never do anything crazy with my computers besides standard recording/games/etc...


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## Adeamus (Jun 7, 2012)

Soubi7string said:


> I own a mac for a few reasons:
> 
> I don't trust Windows after Xp Pro



This. I just got done recording my new record on a Windows 7 box and it was a 15 month nightmare of technical difficulties. For backtracks my band used to use Ableton on a super old dell laptop with XP and 1gig of ram. That setup actually ended up being wildly more stable live then when we flipped over to using an HP set up.

Microsoft royally fucked over firewire with Windows 7, and thats one of the major reason I'm typing this reply on a Macbook Pro.


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## guy in latvia (Jun 8, 2012)

The way I see it, if you're IT competant, and can perform regular maintenance, willing to mess around with driver, and most importantly, actually want to tweak and mod your setup, go windows 7. If you want everything to be dumbed down and super simple to use go mac.

I have always been a real hardcore mac hater, simply because they don't let you do anything. You cant modify anything beyond what the OS lets you. Altho, with stability, lack of a registry, desire not to fucked everything every few years on a kernel level does make it quite attractive. I'm considering eventually getting myself one of those macbook airs, just because they actually seem like something I would want to carry around, but I'm holding out to see what happens around new years with all the big tech releases.

Also, I have owned two HP laptops, that have survived a lot of punishment, far more durable than any of the macs my friends owned (notice the past tense). Just try not to spill drinks into them...


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## klinic (Jun 9, 2012)

guy in latvia said:


> The way I see it, if you're IT competant, and can perform regular maintenance, willing to mess around with driver, and most importantly, actually want to tweak and mod your setup, go windows 7. If you want everything to be dumbed down and super simple to use go mac.
> 
> I have always been a real hardcore mac hater, simply because they don't let you do anything. You cant modify anything beyond what the OS lets you. Altho, with stability, lack of a registry, desire not to fucked everything every few years on a kernel level does make it quite attractive. I'm considering eventually getting myself one of those macbook airs, just because they actually seem like something I would want to carry around, but I'm holding out to see what happens around new years with all the big tech releases.
> 
> Also, I have owned two HP laptops, that have survived a lot of punishment, far more durable than any of the macs my friends owned (notice the past tense). Just try not to spill drinks into them...



Have you used a Mac? Or a Linux machine? They're a lot MORE flexible then Windows really. I stopped using Windows for the same reason you hate Macs. It LET me do everything... but wrong. It would SAY one thing but really mean something a bit different... everything was a workaround. Now I just use terminal and everything does EXACTLY what I want, they way I want it to be done. I'd still be using Linux though if it ran all the programs I wanted... I just like the polished eco-system of Macs.


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## guy in latvia (Jun 12, 2012)

^I have never owned a Mac, but I have some experience using them. I honestly did not manage to make things work out. The most horrifying experience I ever had was trying to get a Mac and a PC to share over a network.

When it comes to Linux, yes it has by far the best flexibility, because its open source and you can do anything you want with it. But its not usable for audio, unless you want to write your own drivers and plugins...


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## klinic (Jun 12, 2012)

guy in latvia said:


> ^I have never owned a Mac, but I have some experience using them. I honestly did not manage to make things work out. The most horrifying experience I ever had was trying to get a Mac and a PC to share over a network.
> 
> When it comes to Linux, yes it has by far the best flexibility, because its open source and you can do anything you want with it. But its not usable for audio, unless you want to write your own drivers and plugins...



I'm terribly glad you weren't offended by my comment, I actually spent a while worrying that it might have come across as offensive.

I've worked with PCs since I was quite young, the first PC I built was a Windows 95 machine. I've since built, maintained and repaired dozens of machines and I've owned 3 Macs in the last two years and have actually upgraded a few of those, although not built from scratch for obvious reasons.

Point in mentioning this is to give myself a bit of credibility, I have experience in them, although I will go ahead and say that I know FAR more about hardware then software, but I have NEVER had ANY network problems with a Mac that were caused by the Mac itself. I connect to at least 5 different networks everyday and have to maintain links across computers over those separate networks and, let me tell you, it was a _nightmare_ back when I was doing this with Windows. Windows is ridiculously stupid when it comes to networks. 

There are a few things I prefer on Windows and I'm even contemplating switching back to Windows now because of the lacklustre workstation options on the Mac side (have you _seen_ the latest Pro update?) but networks are one of the main things I will dread should I have to return. I actually swapped over to Macs a few years ago (not a cheap move I tell you...) mostly _because_ of the pain in the ass that was networking over Windows.

When my girlfriend comes over we instantly have things syncing and working properly over my network, all Apple.

When I head over to my fathers and have to deal with the problems with his Windows machines.... Ugh. :/ I honestly have to say I think the fault is Windows here.

Still, I'm holding out for Windows 8. I haven't tried it yet, or even followed it's progress much. But I'm thinking of installing the Release Preview tonight or tomorrow to see how it goes. Maybe they'll have finally fixed all the minor nuisances that just made my days hell and I can return to a reasonable workstation.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jun 12, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> The answer is to buy a business-class notebook, not the consumer-grade crap you see in retail stores. Better build qualities because they are made to be used every day in work environments, usually better warranties too.



What are some brands you would recommend in this instance?

I'm going to be buying my first real laptop next month; I've been on an old dinosaur of a computer for the last 8 years of my life. I'm not a huge fan of spending money on this stuff so I'd like something that can last me atleast the next 5-6 years easily. It's primary purpose will be music production.


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## guy in latvia (Jun 12, 2012)

klinic said:


> I'm terribly glad you weren't offended by my comment, I actually spent a while worrying that it might have come across as offensive.
> 
> I've worked with PCs since I was quite young, the first PC I built was a Windows 95 machine. I've since built, maintained and repaired dozens of machines and I've owned 3 Macs in the last two years and have actually upgraded a few of those, although not built from scratch for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...



I understand what you mean with network nightmares. Windows 95 and 98 were far from ideal in those terms, and XP was terrible until the second service pack. But the reason I'm recommending a win 7 machine is because, I personally feel that they've ironed out most of the issues I ever had with Windows. I currently have no opinion on 8, but AFAIK its a tablet based system with very little differences to 7. So I'm not sure if the upgrade is a necessity for any win7 users. But I would very much like to hear your opinions on it when you get to have a look.

I have a really tough time justifying Macs because the price to hardware ratio is maddening. This is the reason I buy all my hardware separate and wish it was possible to buy laptops with absolutely nothing preinstalled (face it, they all come overloaded with garbage).



Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> What are some brands you would recommend in this instance?
> 
> I'm going to be buying my first real laptop next month; I've been on an old dinosaur of a computer for the last 8 years of my life. I'm not a huge fan of spending money on this stuff so I'd like something that can last me atleast the next 5-6 years easily. It's primary purpose will be music production.



Definitely go with business class, I personally have quite good experience with HP, not so much with IBM/Lenovo. But I have some bad news for you, if you want something that lasts 5-6 years for recording purposes you can forget about it right away. Most desktop systems become slow and lagging after 4 years, after 6 they are completely obsolete with new software. For laptops, this life cycle tends to be about half...


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