# 8 String Amps



## Philligan (Jan 21, 2010)

Hey guys.

I'm in the market for an 8 string (if all goes well, I'll hopefully be ordering soon). But I'm not sure what to do for an amp.
I'm gonna be on a budget (I'm a student paying my own way through school) so it's definitely gotta be under a grand, and I'd prefer something closer to 500 bucks. I want to go tube, but wattage isn't a huge concern of mine. I need something that can do high gain (and something that can handle a low F# haha), but I also want a good clean tone, so I'm not stuck playing only metal on it.

I'm thinking a Krank Krankenstein Jr. I know I like the Rev Jr., and the Krankenstein's supposed to have a little more gain on tap and a more sparkly clean tone, which sounds pretty much perfect. And it's in my budget.

Anyone tried the Krankenstein Jr., or any of the Jr. series with 8 strings? Anyone know of anything better that'll work with an 8?


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## warped (Jan 21, 2010)

How about a used 5150 II?


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## AeonSolus (Jan 21, 2010)

Almost any modern high gain amp with a tube screamer on front will handle 8 strings pretty well


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## groph (Jan 21, 2010)

LOL THERE ARENT TOO MANY AMPS WITH 8 STRINGS LOL













But to be useful, solid state stuff would be great, they seem to be inherently tighter. It'd be easier finding a nice solid state amp for your price then it would a nice tube, but look around. I've had good experiences with the Randall RH150 G2


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## AeonSolus (Jan 21, 2010)

is the Randall RH150 G2 in the same family as the RG70 G2? i tried one last week and it sounded so fizzy and sterile that i wanted to set the thing on fire and go home to clean my ears


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## swayman (Jan 21, 2010)

Philligan said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I'm in the market for an 8 string (if all goes well, I'll hopefully be ordering soon). But I'm not sure what to do for an amp.
> I'm gonna be on a budget (I'm a student paying my own way through school) so it's definitely gotta be under a grand, and I'd prefer something closer to 500 bucks. I want to go tube, but wattage isn't a huge concern of mine. I need something that can do high gain (and something that can handle a low F# haha), but I also want a good clean tone, so I'm not stuck playing only metal on it.
> ...



Line 6 Bogner?


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## Alexdeliverance (Jan 21, 2010)

Bugera 333 , versatile from rectifier tones to 5150 id say. based on the peavey jsx. you can get a 120 watt head for like 500 bucks or less. i have one and it sounds awesome. I use a tube screamer and a noise reducer to tighten things up but without it its also very decent. BUGERA: 333

 not the best example but pretty good tone anywayz

and the 6260 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydOKuc1_KUQ&feature=related which is more 5150 esque. i prefer the 333 though


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## Philligan (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome, thanks.
I've been keeping a look out for used 5150s, but I've heard some people say they have bad cleans? I haven't been able to find much for or against that argument online, though.
I thought about the Bugera, too, but I wasn't sure how tight they'd be. What kind of pickups are you/anyone else running through it? I definitely need to look into that, though. 
I've currently got a Crate VTX200S combo, and I'm expecting it to do the trick. I might have a buyer interested in it, though, and I'm a big tube amp fan, so I wouldn't complain if I sold it. 
Not that this should really matter, and of course I should be searching for my own tone (there's a bit of sarcasm there haha), but last I knew of, the guys in After the Burial were playing 5150s/6505s, and of all the metal-based 8 string tones I've heard recently, theirs are some of the better ones, IMHO.
Anyone familiar with 5150s/6505s? What about the new 6505 1x12 combo? It's like 700 bucks.

Also, just to give everyone a better idea of what I'm going to be playing, I'm currently planning on getting the Schecter Damien 8. I'd prefer the ATX 8, but I'm all kinds of broke haha. Also, I've got some insanely stubby fingers, so I'm thinking with the bolt-on Damien 8, if the neck's too thick I could get it shaved down a bit without completely killing the resale value (not that I'm planning on selling it, but stripping an ATX neck is pretty ballsy). It should be alright, though. My 7's a Blackjack C-7, and I can get around on that neck. And, depending on when I can afford it, I want to switch the EMGs out for Blackouts. But I think that's a pretty common theme now that Duncan's on the 8 string market


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## groph (Jan 22, 2010)

Philligan said:


> Awesome, thanks.
> I've been keeping a look out for used 5150s, but I've heard some people say they have bad cleans? I haven't been able to find much for or against that argument online, though.
> I thought about the Bugera, too, but I wasn't sure how tight they'd be. What kind of pickups are you/anyone else running through it? I definitely need to look into that, though.
> I've currently got a Crate VTX200S combo, and I'm expecting it to do the trick. I might have a buyer interested in it, though, and I'm a big tube amp fan, so I wouldn't complain if I sold it.
> ...


 

Forgot about Bugera. That might be a good route for you if you REALLY want a tube amp. I heard a clip once where someone compared the 6260 I think, to a Peavey 5150 which is the amp it's apparently a "clone" of. They sounded nearly identical. I wish I could dig the clip up. I can't say the Peavey sounded better or worse, they sounded almost the same, but both sounded equally good. Apparently the Bugera has a good clean channel. I can attest to 5150's having bad cleans, I got a full on metal tone using the clean channel on a 6505+ They don't seem to stay clean at all. Maybe with a lot of tweaking and some pedals or some gear combination would provide you with a good clean but I wouldn't ever go to a 6505/5150 if I wasn't playing anything but metal.

I definitely agree with you about After the Burial's tone. It's fucking godlike.


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## Philligan (Jan 22, 2010)

Good call.
I forgot about the 6260, that sounds right up my alley haha. I don't know why it took me this long, but I just stumbled across this. And I think I'm a fan.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvCdo1qOPCY&feature=related

If all goes well, I'm seeing After the Burial on Sunday. I'll have to get up close and see what they're playing. It'd be great to talk to them about string gauges, too.

And here's that 6260/5150 comparison video. I've seen it before, but it's been a while. I'm watching it right now.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CCeS3Ibbd4&feature=related


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## GorillaSalsa (Jan 22, 2010)

edit: nevermind.


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## loktide (Jan 22, 2010)

in general, i'd look at an amp that more high-mid focused. too much low-mids might make things muddy. therefore, a 5150 or a recto may not have the best clarity if you're tuning that low. 
i thought i'd never say this, but i would even try out a powerball... the herbert is probably also a very good option since it's pretty versatile when it comes to shaping its mids. not very budget-friendly, though

i think getting a heavily tweakable amp or preamp would be a good option, too. if you're on a budget, i'd get a vetta I. meshuggah also uses these in the studio and live, and they work pretty good with 8s. otherwise, the axe-fx is definitely the best modeller out there and can be tweaked to pretty much everything you want to.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 22, 2010)

Philligan said:


> If all goes well, I'm seeing After the Burial on Sunday. I'll have to get up close and see what they're playing. It'd be great to talk to them about string gauges, too.
> 
> And here's that 6260/5150 comparison video. I've seen it before, but it's been a while. I'm watching it right now.
> http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CCeS3Ibbd4&feature=related



I believe ATB use Orange cabs with ENGL heads, not sure what models though.


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## Racerdeth (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe an ENGL might be worth a pop - I've found they have that similar ts9-esque low cut on the input stage that can really tighten things up. I've not played many 8s though so I might be way off the mark!


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## Winspear (Jan 22, 2010)

groph said:


> I can attest to 5150's having bad cleans, I got a full on metal tone using the clean channel on a 6505+ They don't seem to stay clean at all. Maybe with a lot of tweaking and some pedals or some gear combination would provide you with a good clean but I wouldn't ever go to a 6505/5150 if I wasn't playing anything but metal.



I don't know..while I wouldn't say it's a nice clean tone I can still get it perfectly clean even when strumming chords very hard. It's definately clean but so sterile. It does the job for a standard metal clean section or something...but anything else sucks. It's ok with some fx on it I guess.


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## TMM (Jan 22, 2010)

You could always get an Engl E530 pre. That would get you great, clear OD that has been proven to work well with low tunings, great cleans (better than Fender IMHO), and it can power any size cab for college room volumes with it's 1.5w power amp (it really is plenty of volume for practicing). Plus, it's right in your price range ($400-$500). If you need more volume, you could always pick up a decent solid state power amp later.


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## Alexdeliverance (Jan 22, 2010)

basically the bugera 333 has a way better clean than the 6260 and the 5150 having owned the 3. my old guitarist had the 6260 he was more rythm. and i had the 333. they complimented very well. we played in played in drop a. so basically its was pretty close too 8 string tuning not yet but still pretty low. we played em live countless times and i never had any problems with em.( probably 45 shows and they still sound brand new)


i mean best thing to do is go in a guitar shop and plug whatever seven string that you dropped the (B string) and play in whtaver amp. i tried lost of amps and i prefered the 333 to most of em. though if you have the money go for engl !


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## Philligan (Jan 22, 2010)

Unfortunately, I live in a kind of small town, and there's not much to choose from in the way of guitar stores. 
From what I've been able to find, I've got it narrowed down to either a Krank Rev Jr. Pro or a Bugera (the model of which has yet to be determined haha). I'm leaning towards the Krank, because from what I've heard, it has a bit more depth. Also, you're getting a bit "less" amp for your money, and I'm a big fan of bare bones setups. 
If I had the money, I'd go either Powerball or Rivera Knucklehead Tre, but they're both a little out of my price range haha.

The Engl preamp looks pretty sweet, too. I was set on that until I heard someone bash it. If it's anything like the Fireball/Powerball, it's gotta sound gorgeous. Anyone play one before?


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## Rick (Jan 22, 2010)

Philligan said:


> If all goes well, I'm seeing After the Burial on Sunday. I'll have to get up close and see what they're playing. It'd be great to talk to them about string gauges, too.



If I remember correctly, Justin uses a Triple Rectifier and Trent uses an ENGL. I think it's the Invader. Both use Orange Cabs.


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## TMM (Jan 22, 2010)

Philligan said:


> The Engl preamp looks pretty sweet, too. I was set on that until I heard someone bash it. If it's anything like the Fireball/Powerball, it's gotta sound gorgeous. Anyone play one before?



I've owned 3 of them, and all 3 sounded great! I actually liked the tone of the E530 + a separate poweramp better than the Fireball 60 (not the 100, though) or Powerball.


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## Fionn (Jan 22, 2010)

yeah i'll 2nd the e530, i had my 7 tuned to drop g for ages and it sounded awesome, direct was nice, paired with a rocktron vel 100 and an engl 1x12 its the shit! can get a tad fizzy, so i roll off 20kHz 2.5db/oct -12db and the fizzy vanishes! perfec-tone!


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## Philligan (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome.
If I could do anything, I'd probably do a Powerball, so the Engl should be right up my alley.
Since it's got a 1.5 watt power amp, that'd cover practicing at home, but, since I can't afford a separate power amp just yet, couldn't I run the 530 through any amp's clean channel for band situations?
I've got a tube head at the moment, but it doesn't do high gain, but, if that's the case, I should be able to hit the front end like a stomp box, eh? Or could I keep on my head's clean channel and run the 530 through the effects loop, so it only hits the power amp?

Also, how do I thank people? Haha sorry guys, I'm new to the forum, and forums in general.


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## cradleofflames (Jan 22, 2010)

I can't recommend an Axe Fx more.

Versatile like nothing else on earth and tone on par with all the tube amps. It won't emulate the tone and response on a non-master volume amp quite authentically but they are as good as any master volume amp. Everybody says to buy the Ultra but the vast majority of people only need the Standard.

$1,500 for the standard
or
$2,000 for the Ultra

+$700 for a quality powered monitor - cost of the amp/cab you have already
or
+$500 for a solid-state power amp to use with the cab you have already.

You can record and practice silently if you wish. You can play any venue with complete consistency since there is no mic placement to vary and due to how powered monitors are designed the sound won't be effected by how they couple to the surface they're placed on.

I can't impress the importance of "buy once, buy right" on you enough. I've been through a ridiculous amount of gear because I hoped half measures would give me something I was happy with. Lucky for me I've made a profit on the vast majority of what I've tried but most people aren't so lucky.


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## Ernesto (Jan 22, 2010)

I struggled with this for a long time and here's my 2 cents. I've listened to tons of eight string guitar videos and either EVERYONE that's recording live shows has a terrible mic, every venue has horrible sound, or very few 8 string players are getting a decent clean, loud, live tone. I absolutely love AAL and Scale the Summit but it really seems like their amps can't handle the lower notes with much authority. I can't wait to see them live to find out for sure! 

Anyway, coming from a speaker building(car audio) background, I know that cabinets designed for a regular guitar are voiced for the frequency range that 6 string guitars put out. When you get lower, the cabinets aren't big enough, and the speakers don't have enough excursion to make tight, clean, punchy bass tones. I've experienced this even with my seven string in standard tuning. If you only run bass cabs, the highs usually suffer even if the cabs are loaded with horn drivers(horns stink for guitar).

As far as amps go, they are also usually voiced for a standard guitar's range. If you don't believe me, try to find an amp's frequency response curve and look at the low end. They usually aren't designed to play very low notes. Also, clean, loud, lows take power. That's why it's typical to see a bass player with a 1,000 watt bass rig to balance with the guitarists 100 watt stack.

Setups I've tried:

Musicman 65HD with 2 Fender Rhodes 2X15" cabs- cool but muddy as hell

RedBear MK120 with custom over sized 4-12" Celestion 75watt- also cool but very little low end definition

Newer Epiphone 100 watt tube stack- same as above

Line 6 150watt 2-12- a little tighter highs than above but blah low b

A few different high end/high powered bass rigs- muddy, soft highs, airy lows

too many guitar amps to remember- all the same- not tuned for low freq.

My solution? Use both. Please don't laugh too much at my cheap equipment because it sounds better that anything else I've tried. I'm using a Peavey Bandit 100 watt 1-12" combo, and a Crate BX-100 combo. I run my signal to a Zoom G1 or a GSP2101, then out into a Tapco 12CH mixer, then out of the control room outs to the amps. I have the amps set clean and use the EQ's to act as crossovers. The bass amp gets the lows turned up and highs down, the guitar amp gets the opposite. Clean, or dirty, this setup stays tight and clean and loud enough for any gig I can imagine. The components are cheap and reliable as rocks. With the mixer, I can keep my guitars, bass, keys, organ, drum machine, computer, and mics, plugged in and just turn the channel up when I switch to a different instrument. I also run a line-6 dl-4 looper with the aux send from the mixer and run it's output back into a mixer channel. This way I can use the aux send faders to loop any instruments that are plugged in to the mixer. Also, If we ever get around to playing shows, I'll just be able to give the house a stereo signal and go. It really simplifies the whole setup/sound check process. There are just two of us and we frequently switch instruments so it's pretty easy to get everything dialed in.

Price:
Zoom G1 $150 new
Tapco $100 new
Peavey Bandit $100 used
Crate BX-100 $85 used

Grand total: $435

I'm in the market for an 8 string and will post some music with the setup once I write some.



Hope that helps.


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## TMM (Jan 22, 2010)

Philligan said:


> I've got a tube head at the moment, but it doesn't do high gain, but, if that's the case, I should be able to hit the front end like a stomp box, eh? Or could I keep on my head's clean channel and run the 530 through the effects loop, so it only hits the power amp?



I'd recommend sending the E530's output to the effects return on your tube head. That way, the Engl is taking care of your preamp tone, and you're just using the poweramp of your tube head. Though the channel your head is on shouldn't make a difference, I'd probably just leave it on clean, in case it's a head that creates a lot of noise on the OD channel even when the pre is not being used.


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## technomancer (Jan 23, 2010)

The Ampeg VH-140C sounded absolutely BRUTAL with the 8 string I had. It also has a really nice clean channel on it and is in your price range.


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## Philligan (Jan 23, 2010)

I was actually just talking about that earlier tonight (in reference to TMM's post about running an e530 through my amp's effects return). That's my plan right now, as it's affordable, and it'll definitely do the job until I have some money for a rackmount power amp (more for the portability, as one two-part rack would be way easier to lug around then a head and a preamp haha). However, I'm definitely gonna look into the Ampeg VH140c, more outta curiosity. For 200-300 bucks, that'd be a great amp to have kicking around, and it sounds like it'd be more reliable and better sounding than my current Crate combo.
I definitely want a head, though, so I can run it through a Randall RS125CX - it's a 2x12/1x15 cab, which should be perfect for handling the low F#.


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## bachandroll (Jan 23, 2010)

Line 6 - POD X3 Live - Guitar Multi Effects Pedal

Find one used, plus this:

TAPCO - Audio Gear with Vibe

Mackie owns them. Compare the panels and the specs. EXACTLY the same, but not nearly the same price.

These two pieces should put you at your budget mark, with a ton of versatility at your fingertips. Good luck!


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 26, 2010)

Check out the band The Empire Shall Fall and their album Awaken to hear what the Ibanez RG2228 8 string sounds like through a Maxon OD-820 into a 5150 into a Mesa oversized 4x12. awesome guitar tone, much better than After The Burial's tone on their albums (although I like their music much more, but The Empire Shall Fall is pretty cool in a different way)

Pretty awesome guitar tone, doesn't really take care of the cleans though...


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## Internection (Jan 27, 2010)

if your nto worried about size, they have 6505+ 1x12 combo's out now. i would definitely go for one of those


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## marday (Jan 27, 2010)

buy a rocktron prophesy 2 on ebay für 500-600$ and buy a poweramp like the art sla 2 (300$) or a tube poweramp like engl 840/50 (700$). i have both and it sounds great with my rg 2228 !!! super tube feeling with the rocktron prophesy 2.
you can create tones like all shall perish, Shred-Stuff or after the burial, meshuggah...8 string djent stuff or ambient cleansounds with amazing effects...
the prophesy 2 is better than my pod x3 and cheaper than the Axe FX Standart/Ultra.


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## Metalus (Jan 27, 2010)

another opton would be the digidesign eleven rack. Its more expensive than the prophesy,but less than the axe fx.

Digidesign Eleven Rack | Sweetwater.com

Heres an example on how it sounds. Whitechapel uses it in the beginning of this video to lay down scratch tracks for the drummer. These r some of the best sounding scratch tracks ive ever heard


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## glassmoon0fo (Feb 3, 2010)

hey man, i dont know if youre still in the market for a great amp, but ive got two Carvin sx 200s, and i only need one =). It's a solid state 100w 2x12 with a tube emulation feature. I got my first 8 string in today and it sounds great through the carvin, the low string is tight and pretty defined considering how floppy the string is (its a 70 tuned to E), and on top of that these things are LOUD when you need them to be. also have the footswitch that came with them, i dont use em anymore tho.

Id sell it off for 200 and shipping. if youre interested, PM me and ill get pics your way .


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## glassmoon0fo (Feb 4, 2010)

k. didnt mean to "hawk my shit on other peoples' threads". forget i fucking asked.


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## mgcasella (Feb 5, 2010)

If I could throw down some cash right now, I would totally get an E 530 preamp and put it through a nice power amp. I'm using a Crate Shockwave with my Intrepid and it sounds pretty brutal, though 

However, honestly, I think a lot of what you should be focusing on is your speaker cab since most (imo) guitar cabs can't handle the low-B and low-F#. I got a really awesome deal on an ISP cab (Buy ISP Technologies Vector 1100W 2x12 and 1x15 Active Powered Guitar Extension Cabinet | Amp Cabinets | Musician's Friend) on ebay ($600 and that included shipping!) and I can hear the low-B and low-F# nice and clear. Also, it really adds dimension to the other strings, as well.

I can't stress getting this cab enough! The only thing that sucks is transporting it since it weighs a lot and is BIG. If you can find a deal similar to the one I got do whatever you can to secure it - you'll thank me later, I promise!


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## LLink2411 (Feb 5, 2010)

You could look into Bass amps as well.

A Markbass Little mark is one hell of an amp for a very low price.


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## Philligan (Feb 5, 2010)

Awesome, thanks. I've actually been thinking about this more lately haha (although my guitar's shipping's been delayed, which is a huge bummer).
Here's what I've been thinking lately:
(I'm still thinking about what I can do for around a grand; if I do decide to wait and get something more expensive, it'll almost definitely be a Fireball E635, because I think those things are awesome haha).
-Getting an E530 and running through my current amp's effects return until I can afford a power amp

-Getting a 5150/6505 (my current amp has a great clean channel, and, let's be real, I'm not doing any pro gigging, so putting up with a slightly sub-par clean tone live is no big deal)

-The last one's a Line 6 Spider Valve (the Mark II head, of course) - For practicing I've got a Spider III 15, and I find that I have an easier time dialing in a good high gain tone on that than I do my Crate VTX200S, and the Spider III's a Spider III So, I'm thinking, Line 6's range with gain + Bogner's tube system (sorta haha) would be another good bet

Thanks for everyone's input, though. I don't have too much access to many good music store's where I'm from (smallish town) so YouTube and word of mouth is more or less all that I've got. 

The E530/6505 debacle isn't a big one, if it comes down to those to, it'll just be a case of my listening to each one and going from there ('cause they're both straightforward amps, I'd know what I'd be getting into, and, truth be told, I'd be happy with either one). My big concern is the Spider Valve. I feel like it would either be quite a bit better than the Engl/Peavey (for me, at least) or quite a bit worse. On paper, it seems too good to be true, you know? But Meshuggah plays the Vetta II's exclusively, and I saw Phil X playing a Spider Valve on YouTube, and apparently the guys in Lacuna Coil only play Spider Valves.

Anyone used one before, or heard one played that wasn't on YouTube?

Also, I forgot.
I was looking into the 2x12/1x15 cab (Randall makes one for five or six hundred bucks). My concern is, will the 15" tighten the lows, or just expand them? What I'm thinking about doing is getting an oversized (the biggest possible haha) 4x12 cab made out of the thickest wood I can reasonably find (like a Randall, or Orange-style but cheaper haha) and just making sure I've got really powerful speakers that can handle the lows.


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 11, 2010)

@Philligan:

i'm also considering a spidervalve head, but im not sure now. i really like the rhythm tones after the burial uses, and (of course) bulb's tones, tesseract, etc. but im obviously not in the market for expensive axeFX's and ENGL heads (right now).

my thoughts (seeing as i have NOTHING right now until my Agile 8 gets here) is to get a $100 roland cube. things sound great, loud, and tight for their size. that can tide me over till i can get the $1000 or so for a Peavey Valveking 100 head and an Orange 2x12 cab. NOW i will be able to jam with my drummer buddy and a few other guys in a practice space for a while.

from there i want to upgrade to a 4x12 Orange cab, and either a Spidervalve head or (depending on if the Peavey sounds good enough or not) sell them all for an ENGL Invader 100.

it's a balancing act between having something decent/loud enough to jam with a band and not sound like ass, and inching my way toward my dream setup. *does anyone see anything terribly wrong with going to Valveking + 2x12 Orange with the tones im trying to achieve with an 8 string?* i'm quite the newb.


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## Setnakt (Feb 11, 2010)

Every time I've tried a Spider or Spider Valve, I thought the tone sounded horribly fizzy, even compared to other modelling amps. I got the impression that the tone would be especially indistinct for baritone or lower tuned guitars.


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 11, 2010)

Setnakt said:


> Every time I've tried a Spider or Spider Valve, I thought the tone sounded horribly fizzy, even compared to other modelling amps. I got the impression that the tone would be especially indistinct for baritone or lower tuned guitars.



i've noticed a huge difference between the spiders and spidervalve. ESPECIALLY the newer spiders, like the III or the HD whatever. the spidervalve seemed smoother and warmer. sure, it still had a digital-esque distortion on the hi-gain channels/presets but i was able to dial them out a little. besides, meshuggah are obviously able to dial out a lot of the digital feel out of their tone, so i figured it's not impossible on a spidervalve either.

the more i read about the valveking and listen to it on youtube videos the more im thinking it's not what im looking for at all.


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## Philligan (Feb 11, 2010)

Yeah, I'm undecided about the Spider Valve. It sounds good on paper, but I'm worried about how it'll handle the low end (hearing "tubes" and "warmer" in the same sentence isn't exactly what I'm going for haha).
Right now I'm thinking either 5150/6505 or a cheap (haha, yeah right) used Mesa Dual/Triple Rec or a Mark IV if I'm ever lucky enough to hunt one of those down.
My budget's around a grand, so I'm thinking 5150/6505. I've seen pictures of them in After the Burial's presence, so I'm hoping that means it has their blessing haha.
For a cab, an Orange would be great, but pricey. I'm thinking a Randall 4x12 (XL, if possible), a used Mesa cab, or I found a guy on eBay who makes copies of Orange cabs.


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## Nosedevil (Feb 11, 2010)

I've got a Spider Valve HD 100. Works like a charm for the F# and even Drop E... Bareknuckle and EMG, respectively.


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## Philligan (Feb 11, 2010)

Hmm....
You might be on to something haha. I know the SV's cleans sound great, and I have an easier time getting a good 8 string tone out of my Spider III 15 than I do my 200 watt Crate combo.
Outta curiosity, man, could you describe your tone? What kind of cab have you got?


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## Nosedevil (Feb 12, 2010)

I've got the matching cab. It has Celestion Vintage 30's. 

Rhythm-wise, my main setting is based the metal amber. Punchy, tight, un-compressed, and I do use a fair amount of mids. Then I've got other settings like the crunch blue cranked up which is looser on the lower end. It still has definition.

For leads, I find the metal blue to be my favorite. It has a lot of character and headroom. With a turn on the mids, this channel changes it's tone drastically.

As for the clean settings... Line 6 meets Bogner. Enough said.

The main concern in this amp (and any other) is to take your time with EQ. Be careful with the gain. If I am using the past the metal channel, I go light with the gain, usually, not exceeding 12 o'clock. And remember, mids are gooood.


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## Philligan (Feb 12, 2010)

Haha I do love me some mids.
Thanks, man, I'm hopefully gonna take my 8 into the local guitar store and check one out if they've got it. The big thing that draws me to the Spider Valve (other than the fact that it's Line 6 meets Bogner, like you said haha) is the fact that it can do more or less every kind of gain.
A 6505 would be good, but a lot of what I heard has a gritty kind of thing going, which sounds good, but I'd like a way to dial that out. Especially with the 8, I'm going for more of a metallic kind of feel.


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## Nosedevil (Feb 12, 2010)

Well, I do like the 6505 sound. Not tried it with an 8 yet, but sounds killer for low tunings. As for Peavey, I've got myself a JSX. It sounds awesome, but requires some compression for a tight attack... and yes, the ultra channel is usable, just go easy on the gain.


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## Harry (Feb 13, 2010)

I played a Schecter C-8 Hellraiser through a Spider Valve a while ago for a few hours.
It held up surprisingly well on the low F# string


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## Philligan (Feb 14, 2010)

Hmm. Right now I'm torn between a 6505/used Dual or Triple Rec, or taking a gamble and ordering a Spider Valve or Bugera 333XL. I really wish I could crank all of them up and really compare haha.


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## Evil7 (Feb 14, 2010)

i own a 6505+ with the matching 4/12 cab... It sounds really good in drop G on a seven string... good speaker tightness/ punch when properly eg'd with a noise gate... I cant say enough good things about the amp..... it has miles of gain.. more than you'll ever need.
Im guessing it would handle 8 strings just fine... just try not to go overboard on the gain... it can get fizzy like frying eggs....


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## Philligan (Feb 14, 2010)

Hmm.. That's what I'm thinking, because it's cheaper/easier to acquire (from where I am haha) than a Boogie. Have you tried the Bugera stuff at all?


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## viesczy (Feb 15, 2010)

You know I run through an HD147 or a Pod X3 alot with my guitars (no 8 strings yet, just 6s & 7s) and for hard hitting bottom end the Big Bottom preset & the Smash give some great high gain tones, a little fizzy/sterile sounding as compared to my XXX/El Diablo/VH 100, but still quite passable. I've not had any complaints about sounding bad/thin. I know a lot of the fizz is lost in the mixwith the cymbals crashing and such. The fizz we hear by ourselvs, @ full volume with a band doesn't seem to be there... at least not what I could hear @ 20'-25' away. 

Another amp that might work, which is surprisingly good (especially for what I paid for it) is the Vox XL line. I scored the 100 XL from American Musical for $250 and I kid you not, @ all volumes I would put it against any of my amps for quality tones. Honestly, I like my 100 XL so much I am seriously considernig getting a VT50 or VT100! 

As for the XXX, if the Bugera 333, or 333xl, is 1/2 the amp as the XXX, that is a great buy!

Derek


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## Philligan (Feb 15, 2010)

Nice, thanks for the info.
Isn't the 3120 basically the new XXX? That could have some definite potential, too. I'm just thinking that (purely based on what I've heard on YouTube and such) that a 6505 has a slightly grittier sound, whereas I think I'm looking for something a little more metallic. Nothing too crazy, and I could totally be making up the whole gritty thing, but that's what I think I've been hearing haha.
I'm just a little paranoid, because I'm most likely gonna be ordering an amp out of theory and hoping for something I like haha. I'm sure I'd be happy with any one of these, but it'll kill you to know you coulda got something better, eh?


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## viesczy (Feb 16, 2010)

You're correct about the latest version of the XXX being the 3120. 

I love my XXX, I love all my amps and wouldn't be w/o any, and be warned on the active EQ, just be sure to EQ with your ears and not your eyes. The old boost/cut/boost that many use on passive EQs won't work. It took a little more time to dial in my XXX, my El Diablo and my Tech 21 TM300 because of the active EQ. Less motion often equals more with the active EQ. 

I actually have the 2x12 version of the XXX--I use the amp as a monitor and run out to my cabs, and through cabs or the stock speakers the XXX gives some great, heavy, blistering tones. The only complaint I have is that the stock speakers give better articulation from the edge of the speaker cone than directly in front of the speaker cone. 

Everything I saw of the Bugeras, the 6260, 6262, 333 and 333XL from Bugera on Youtube have sounded pretty impressive as well. Many a time I had to resist scoring the 333xl!

Derek


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## Philligan (Feb 16, 2010)

Hmm..
I heard it said that the 3120 was even tighter than the 6505... I'm thinking that for an extra 300 bucks or so, the 3120 would be worth it over the Bugera. Now I just need some money


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 17, 2010)

uuuugghhh i hate this. my mind is soon-to-explode over the whole amp decision making process. i can't stop changing my mind.

*ENGL vader 100?* i'll probably never have $2800
*Orange cab?* not important right now, i just want something to practice and jam on with a drummer... before the end of the year.
*SpiderValve?* i don't have $900 right now, and definitely won't by the end of the year.

looks like i might settle for a Spider IV head + cab from GC ($650), a noise gate pedal, and eventually switch the head to a SV, and then the cab to an Orange.

I JUST WANT TO PLAAAAAAAAAYYY!!!!


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## Philligan (Feb 17, 2010)

Yeah man, I'd suggest the Spider head. I've got the Spider III 15, and, within reason, it's not terrible at all. If I had to spend under 500 on a head, I'd do a Spider IV. As far as cabs, if you search "cab" on eBay, there's a guy who makes basically copies of Orange cabs. They look insanely thick. You can get a 2x12 cab (with a choice of a couple difference speakers) for like 400 bucks I think.
Just a guess (I can't check because I'm at work right now) but I think they're called Sunset Cabs or something to that effect.

I forgot to mention, the Spider IV will almost definitely have a built-in gate (my III 15 does). You can assign it to each channel. It's kinda tough to find, I didn't know about it 'til I read the manual. On mine, you hold down the tap tempo and turn the delay knob from 0 to 10. It's a decent delay, too.


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## Galius (Feb 17, 2010)

The Orange clones are Sonsetbeach


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## Philligan (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks 
Have you heard 'em at all, or even any feedback?


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## Galius (Feb 17, 2010)

I havent heard them, but it looks like theyre about half the price of orange cabs.


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## Philligan (Feb 17, 2010)

Yeah man, I've got my eye on one of those bastards.

With a 3120 on top, I'm thinking.


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## scottro202 (Feb 17, 2010)

You could get an Avatar Contemporary 2x12 cab for a little over $400


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 18, 2010)

Philligan said:


> Yeah man, I'd suggest the Spider head. I've got the Spider III 15, and, within reason, it's not terrible at all. If I had to spend under 500 on a head, I'd do a Spider IV. As far as cabs, if you search "cab" on eBay, there's a guy who makes basically copies of Orange cabs. They look insanely thick. You can get a 2x12 cab (with a choice of a couple difference speakers) for like 400 bucks I think.
> Just a guess (I can't check because I'm at work right now) but I think they're called Sunset Cabs or something to that effect.
> 
> I forgot to mention, the Spider IV will almost definitely have a built-in gate (my III 15 does). You can assign it to each channel. It's kinda tough to find, I didn't know about it 'til I read the manual. On mine, you hold down the tap tempo and turn the delay knob from 0 to 10. It's a decent delay, too.



thanks for the info!

i just checked the line6 website for more info on the IV series, and the HD150 shows "adjustable gate" on the specs list. looks like i would need one of their MkII footswitches if i want to use the PC software that let's you store/tweak presets.

i'll go play on one of the combo's at GC soon and if it's decent i'll get GC to special order the stack. anyone know what kind of speakers are in the 4x12 it comes with?


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## Philligan (Feb 18, 2010)

They've got "custom designed" Celestions haha. Honestly, though, man, for 300 bucks, I think I'd check eBay for something. You can probably find some dude selling a Randall or even a 5150/6505 cab for that price, and those would probably sound tighter. For low end definition, I think the cab plays just as big a role as the head. Or check out Sonset Beach on eBay. I'm planning on one of those. Then you can get it in orange and look like a bad ass with an Orange cab


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 18, 2010)

i just found out that the 412VS cab that comes with the Spider IV HD150 head is 4 Celestion Vintage 30's @ 320 watts. for $650 (for the whole half stack) i think it's worth the money to use for a while until a real orange 412 is in my price range. i hear bad things about off brand speakers that say they're similar to V30's.

randall cabs, from what i can tell, mostly use greenbacks and that sort of thing- which i don't hear good things about unless you're playing a lot of metal that doesn't require a smooth tone. ie: the pantera's, crowbar, slipknot kind of gritty distortion sounds. not what im looking for.

don't get me wrong, im not passing up the sonsets SIMPLY because orange cabs have V30's, but moreso because they seem to pass up a few details along the way when making them. (for example, they have rubber feet instead of casters or the rails like orange's for when you're playing live) they look nice though. i may end up getting a 2x12 sonset later down the line for my bedroom, and leaving my 412 in the practice space we get.


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## Philligan (Feb 18, 2010)

Yeah, for sure.

I actually didn't realize that the Line 6 had real V30s and that the Sonset's had V30 copies (shame on me ). I'm gonna hafta check out the Line 6 cabs, I think they've got one or two at my local guitar store.

I've been eyeing up a Randall T2 lately. That thing looks awesome.


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## capo_fez (Feb 20, 2010)

I gotta agree with groph on the solid state comment, as for tightness. I run my 8-string direct through a Line 6 Pod xt. And for home practice, I run the Pod through the power amp in on my Fender FM 212. I tried the main input on the amp, and it came out like MUD! As I played with the power amp in input, I noticed that it bypassed the eq section on the front, making it like a 212 with a power amp, instead of amp tone w/ a Pod. I was using a Crate Blue Voodoo head with a 5150 cab before making the switch. The key to the Line 6 stuff is taking the time to set a good tone. Each one originally took me a couple of hours, but now, it only takes a few minutes to an hour, all depending on whether or not I can find make it do what I am hearing in my head, right away. I have had some of the best luck with that setup with my 8-string. I use mine for metal, country, jazz, blues, classical, and classic rock. It holds up to every thing I need. I also recommend that you at least check out the tones online from the Line 6 website. I found many of them helpful as a starting point for my tone bank.


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## Strictly 7 (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi!

I met this gentleman at NAMM this past January, he let me use his amp and cab to demo my 8's for people/players. His design is specifically made for the lower frequencies of the 7 and 8 string guitars, he uses a 15" guitar speaker to help accent/clean up the low F# frequency, amazing!

I'd encourage you to contact him, watch the videoes he offers and ask him questions. Hi name is Darryl and he is a really nice guy, straight shooter!

Welcome to WattGrinder Engineering, Inc.

Best of luck!

Peace,
Jim
Strictly 7 Guitars


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 21, 2010)

capo_fez said:


> I gotta agree with groph on the solid state comment, as for tightness. I run my 8-string direct through a Line 6 Pod xt. And for home practice, I run the Pod through the power amp in on my Fender FM 212. I tried the main input on the amp, and it came out like MUD! As I played with the power amp in input, I noticed that it bypassed the eq section on the front, making it like a 212 with a power amp, instead of amp tone w/ a Pod.



i already have a PODxt (none of the expansion packs though) so this sounds like a really cool setup, but i've never heard of combo's allowing input bypassing the eq. is it common and i'm just overlooking the feature? it would be great to have at home for practice so the stack can stay in the practice space.

anyone know of any other combos that allow this?


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## Galius (Feb 21, 2010)

Strictly 7 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I met this gentleman at NAMM this past January, he let me use his amp and cab to demo my 8's for people/players. His design is specifically made for the lower frequencies of the 7 and 8 string guitars, he uses a 15" guitar speaker to help accent/clean up the low F# frequency, amazing!
> 
> ...


 
Wow, those tonegrinders sound interesting. I wonder how much they are.


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## 13point9 (Feb 21, 2010)

Strictly 7 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I met this gentleman at NAMM this past January, he let me use his amp and cab to demo my 8's for people/players. His design is specifically made for the lower frequencies of the 7 and 8 string guitars, he uses a 15" guitar speaker to help accent/clean up the low F# frequency, amazing!
> 
> ...



If they catch on and can get the production costs down, he is going to be a VERY rich man


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## Philligan (Feb 21, 2010)

That's pretty crazy.


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## RG7620BK (Feb 21, 2010)

When i had my Diezel Herbert before some fuck took it, it sounded marvelous through a friend of mines 8 string. But, as you may know, Diezel prices are outrageous. But if you can swing it, just about anything sounds great through a Herbert.


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## Philligan (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah haha, I'd give both my legs (just not my arms ) for a Herbert.


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## Galius (Feb 22, 2010)

Lately ive been having trouble dialing in a tone that I was satisfied with on my 6505+ with my 8s. So tonight I took my Septor 8 into Guitar Center and gave in and tried out the Line 6 Spider Valve MK2 HD, and im pretty positive now that im going to go pick one up this week.

By no means was it the _*perfect*_ amp, but I was able to dial in a very nice handful of different sounds that all sounded beefy and clear with pretty minimal muddiness. Yes there were some of settings that sounded like dookie for what I would need, but I was pleasantly surprised how much better this head sounded than the rest of the Live 6 products ive played. It was nowhere near as digital sounding as I thought it would be. Im sure that there are way better amps for 8s out there all being $3000+, but of all the heads ive played around the $1000 price range this one seemed the easiest to get a good solid sound out of. It was funny because I sat down tweaking it for about and hour and a few of the employees walked by and commented that they never spent anough time dialing it in to give it a chance and said that now theyre thinking twice about it. I also have to add that this thing is LOUD and it still sounded good turned up. Agian, I dont think it the perfect 8 string amp but it sure sounds solid as hell and plus you can find more than one tone unlike trying to work with one brand of tube amp. I know there are people on here that cant stand them, but it seems hit or miss depending on the person so I would say try one for yourself. I even had an employee play it while i walked around to see how it sounded from different places. It seems to project its sound extremely well and is VERY present sounding.


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## Philligan (Feb 23, 2010)

That's awesome.
I keep looking around, and I keep coming back to it. I mean, sure, it'll be a little digital sounding, but for most of the 8 string metal out there, that's not really a bad thing. And if it means a tighter, more defined low end, I'll take it.
The clean sounds I've heard have been pretty awesome, and it's nice having a couple effects (like delay and whatnot) around in case you need them. It'll save on buying a $150+ delay pedal for casual use.


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## paintkilz (Feb 23, 2010)

there is a mod for the spidervalve that turns changes it so itll run the preamp through a tube buffer...lot of people thinks it helps the tone..might want to check that.


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## Galius (Feb 23, 2010)

paintkilz said:


> there is a mod for the spidervalve that turns changes it so itll run the preamp through a tube buffer...lot of people thinks it helps the tone..might want to check that.


 
Yeah I seen that as well. Looks like its worth the extra $150 but you need to know how to work with electronics. I heard it makes the spider valves ALOT better.


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## Rick (Feb 23, 2010)

I was really interested in the Spidervalves but I want more stuff to use/tweak which is why I'm going with the X3 Pro.


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## AVH (Feb 23, 2010)

Galius said:


> Yeah I seen that as well. Looks like its worth the extra $150 but you need to know how to work with electronics. I heard it makes the spider valves ALOT better.



That's the Strymon SVpre mod, which I installed into my HD100. It really does what it says it does, and gives you 4 different stages of "push" into the front end.
And because I just obtained a nice Vetta II head, coincidentally, I now have the HD100 up for sale:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/msg/1611232613.html


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## Galius (Feb 23, 2010)

Dendroaspis said:


> That's the Strymon SVpre mod, which I installed into my HD100. It really does what it says it does, and gives you 4 different stages of "push" into the front end.
> And because I just obtained a nice Vetta II head, coincidentally, I now have the HD100 up for sale:
> Line 6 Spidervalve HD100 Head w/ Strymon SVpre Mod!


 

Aparently the MK2 clears up alot of problems people had with the first SV and were using the SVpre to fix. I did some searching and I guess the SVpre isnt compatible withthe MK2 but strymon is working on a version for it to make the MK2 even better.


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## swayman (Feb 23, 2010)

Alexdeliverance said:


> Bugera 333 , versatile from rectifier tones to 5150 id say. based on the peavey jsx. you can get a 120 watt head for like 500 bucks or less. i have one and it sounds awesome. I use a tube screamer and a noise reducer to tighten things up but without it its also very decent. BUGERA: 333
> 
> not the best example but pretty good tone anywayz
> 
> and the 6260  which is more 5150 esque. i prefer the 333 though




Ok, reasons for Bugera stuff being so cheap?


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 23, 2010)

what i want to know is what is so different about the spidervalve CABINET and the regular 412VS that comes with the spider IV head (stack). the 412VS is 320w and has 4 V30's in it. if the wattage isn't different, line 6 could say it was 'tuned' or 'built' for the SV head, but for all we know that's mostly bs, and it could be very slight differences- only cosmetic.


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## Harry (Feb 23, 2010)

swayman said:


> Ok, reasons for Bugera stuff being so cheap?



Well, they aren't exactly made in the US like the Peaveys are


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## Philligan (Feb 24, 2010)

Harry said:


> Well, they aren't exactly made in the US like the Peaveys are


 
I've heard some scary stuff about their quality control, too. I'm a little undecided at the moment about them, they almost seem too good to be true.


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 25, 2010)

Philligan said:


> I've heard some scary stuff about their quality control, too. I'm a little undecided at the moment about them, they almost seem too good to be true.



i hear they are owned by behringer? or vice versa? i had a scarily cheap 412 cab from behringer that was 400w and it was terrible. i wouldn't trust buying anything from them. who knows though, maybe i just had bad luck.


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## BigBaldIan (Feb 25, 2010)

I have a 6262 and had a jewel light replaced by a local amp tech of some repute. In his opinion the quality of construction was no better or worse than the Chinese made Voxes or Peaveys.

I'm also trying to track down actual, verified "Omg my Bugera caught fire!" stories. So far they seem to be remarkably thin on the ground i.e. the wonderful "My mate's brother's band opened for an act who used one and it blew up killing half the front row!" sort of shaggy dog stories.

Bugera V55HD 55W Tube Guitar Amp Head

There's an official reply from Behringer.

As for tones the 6262 is very much in the 5150 ballpark but with the added advantage that you can bias your own tubes. Whack an EQ in the loop for some added thump and you're laughing.


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## yetti (Feb 25, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I believe ATB use Orange cabs with ENGL heads, not sure what models though.



As of the current tour with Emmure, Trent uses an Invader 150 and Justin uses a Carvin MTS 3200. Both were running into an Orange 4x12.


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 25, 2010)

yetti said:


> As of the current tour with Emmure, Trent uses an Invader 150 and Justin uses a Carvin MTS 3200. Both were running into an Orange 4x12.



i want to hear their new stuff (in non-youtube form) asap. they were using triple rectifiers for the last album, and if THAT sounded fantastic, then i can only imagine what the tone will be like. one guy is rhythm-only and the other one does leads right? that may explain the different amps.

so okay- 8 string amps:
-i'm going to try a spider IV amp ASAP
-i won't try a spidervalve unless the store has a working stack hooked up and ready for a demo
-i'll look up how to alter the gate on both so i can see how they fair with djent and palm mutes (really important to me)

it saddens me that most amp demos i find on youtube are either super beginner players, or aren't anywhere near my style of music at all. if any of you own spider IV's or SV's and you're into ATB/Bulb/AAL kind of stuff- SHOW US WATCHA GOT!


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## Meshugger (Feb 25, 2010)

goherpsNderp said:


> i want to hear their new stuff (in non-youtube form) asap. they were using triple rectifiers for the last album, and if THAT sounded fantastic, then i can only imagine what the tone will be like. one guy is rhythm-only and the other one does leads right? that may explain the different amps.
> 
> so okay- 8 string amps:
> -i'm going to try a spider IV amp ASAP
> ...



If you try one, please do come back with a review!


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 25, 2010)

Meshugger said:


> If you try one, please do come back with a review!



if i can get a hold of a flip video cam by then i will definitely post a video. i'll be sure and show what my eq is set to and what not as well. i keep forgetting that most video reviews of amps set everything to 12 o'clock. (flat)

im just worried about being able to use a working unit. most of the SV's and even the IV's that GC had either weren't hooked up, were used/refurb units they didn't want anyone playing on, or "dude someone's buying that, sorry". i saw a NEW SV head sitting on a used amp of a different brand, and didn't even bother. guess i'll phone first.


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## yetti (Feb 25, 2010)

goherpsNderp said:


> one guy is rhythm-only and the other one does leads right? that may explain the different amps.



For the most part yes, but there is a little back and forth between them. The different amps may have to do with where they want to sit in the mix. I don't really know enough about either head to really comment, though. Maybe someone else does.


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## Philligan (Feb 25, 2010)

yetti said:


> For the most part yes, but there is a little back and forth between them. The different amps may have to do with where they want to sit in the mix. I don't really know enough about either head to really comment, though. Maybe someone else does.


 
I would guess since Trent seems to handle more of the leads, and Justin handles more of the riffing, Justin using a Mesa/Carvin would make more sense, because I've heard it said that ENGLs tend to get lost in the mix a little more easily, so that would give Justin a little more edge for riffs.

I don't know how true that is, though, and, from what I've heard so far, if I could have any amp out there, it'd be an ENGL.

I really wanna try a Spider Valve, ASAP, because I feel like that would get closest for djent stuff as well as decent other tones on a budget.


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## PnKnG (Feb 28, 2010)

technomancer said:


> The Ampeg VH-140C sounded absolutely BRUTAL with the 8 string I had. It also has a really nice clean channel on it and is in your price range.



Sorry for the  but I need to ask this question.
How close is the Ampeg VH-150 to the VH-140?
Is it as good as the 150?
Only asking since I came across a VH-150 on a Swedish gear selling side.


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