# Chris & Bob's Dorky Fantasy Book Bar & Grille (Adults need not apply)



## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

Since we really need a thread for it. 

I can't really make a favorite list until I finish Malazan, and I _think_ I'm probably going to really dig the Eragon series as well.

TDT will always reign supreme as far as I'm concerned, though it's not exactly dragons and sorcery, it's still a fantasy series, sort of. 

Favorite Chars from some:

TDT: Roland, obviously. He's my favorite character in ANY series.
WoT: Moiraine
SoIaF: Tyrion
Malazan: Rallick so far, though Rake is pretty damn badass too.

I honestly wish I never watched the LoTR movies because I can't even relate to the series anymore without seeing the characters from the movie.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> That's another one of my favs. Apples and Oranges, I suppose. Put it this way...
> 
> 
> ASOIAF
> ...




The worst part is the damn thing STILL isn't fucking done. I just finished re-reading it all a few months back because when I finally got around to book 11, I had no fucking clue what the hell was going on. 

WoT is a lot better the second time around, imo, because honestly the first time I read it I spent most of books 6-9 saying "When the fuck is something going to actually HAPPEN?". He opens the series up with so much asskicking combat and then gets super political.

I was really able to soak it all up this time though and get into the political circles and whatnot that he draws and it was a LOT more enjoyable. Plus 10 was good, and 11 totally kicked ass. If he puts out another freaking prequel before it's done, I'm going to kick puppies.


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## settite (Apr 15, 2007)

Dragonlance Chronicles > all

Weis and Hickman > all


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

What can I say? I agree with all of it.

Hmm. I enjoyed the LotR movies, but yeah. I didn't get into them nearly as much as my love for the series would have indicated. I still vastly prefer the books to the movies, and would rather re-read them again then watch the movies. 

Another terrific fantasy series, well... let's say, 2 series, one pure fantasy, and the other sort of Bladerunner-meets-Alice in Wonderland type fantasy/sci fi/, both my a fantastic author named Tad Williams. (You'd dig these, Chris., Alot. Especially the second I'll list, since it's all high tech n' shit.)

1. Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. Typical high-fantasy fare, but William's writing is brilliant, and his plotting is always top notch. No boredom.
2. The Otherland Series. This is GREAT, Chris. Alot like TDT, but set in a virtual-reality superworld, full of crazy shit, just like TDT. Set in the future slightly, the Net is then totally VR, and these rich bastards cook up a way to live there forever. It's my second fav series after ASoIaF.


Characters? I like Chris' choices. Add some o' my own, I guess.

TDT: Roland is mine, too. He reminds me much of myself. But I really, really like wise-ass Eddie, too, and probably why I get along with Noodles so well. My best friend is a real wise-ass character just like that. Ka-tet.

WoT: Perrin.  Duh. The wolf guy. I've liked him from the get go. I also really dig Lan (who is sort of like Roland meets Aragorn). Thom Merrilin is sweet, and Egwene is showing much promise. Those characters are almost like real people to me now, after all these years. Mat Cauthon is maybe my second favorite, since his.. abilities? Are so unique and cool, plus he's a womanizing pimp with a love for gambling, jokes, and fun times, but with a heart of gold. 

ASoIaF: Tyrion for me, too. What an interesting, complex character. I enjoy his brother, Jaime Lannister, as well. Especially now, with the latest developments in his life. Probably my second fav is Jon Snow, but again, he's a wolf guy, and alot like me, personality-wise. Arya the wolf-girl, his sister, is a very interesting character.

Malazan: Hmm. This one is tough. Maybe Kalam, or Whiskeyjack. Possibly Icarium, but they need to showcase him more. But Chris, wait till you encounter Karsa Orlong, descendant of an ancient, uber-mighty kickass race, that is like 10-12 feet tall and almost indestructable. This dude brings badassity to a whole new level. And he's a total fuckin' wildcard, which rules. Wait till you see. 


Thanks, and great thread idea! I tried to keep any plot details to a minimum, so to avoid spoiler tags.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> The worst part is the damn thing STILL isn't fucking done. I just finished re-reading it all a few months back because when I finally got around to book 11, I had no fucking clue what the hell was going on.
> 
> WoT is a lot better the second time around, imo, because honestly the first time I read it I spent most of books 6-9 saying "When the fuck is something going to actually HAPPEN?". He opens the series up with so much asskicking combat and then gets super political.
> 
> I was really able to soak it all up this time though and get into the political circles and whatnot that he draws and it was a LOT more enjoyable. Plus 10 was good, and 11 totally kicked ass. If he puts out another freaking prequel before it's done, I'm going to kick puppies.


Yeah, 6-9 drag, and really need context, like a thorough re-reading to get it all. Still, I liked them much less than 1-4/5.

I also thought the latest was really good, and back on track. Shit actually happened! 



settite said:


> Dragonlance Chronicles > all
> 
> Weis and Hickman > all


I wouldn't go that far, but I agree, it's a terrific series. I've read the first 6 books maybe... 5 times each? Give or take. Must re-read that one again, soon. Great stuff.

For pure cheese hack n' slash fantasy but with SUCH A FUCKING COOL CHARACTER, read the Dark Elf shit, by Bob Salvatore.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

I read Otherland man. 

WE ARE LIKE THE SAME PERSON


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

> WoT: Perrin. Duh. The wolf guy. I've liked him from the get go. I also really dig Lan (who is sort of like Roland meets Aragorn). Thom Merrilin is sweet, and Egwene is showing much promise. Those characters are almost like real people to me now, after all these years. Mat Cauthon is maybe my second favorite, since his.. abilities? Are so unique and cool, plus he's a womanizing pimp with a love for gambling, jokes, and fun times, but with a heart of gold.



The thing is (spoilers!) by the end of book 11 I am so sick of Perrin being Faile's bitch, I just want him to slap her and go back to kicking ass. 



> Malazan: Hmm. This one is tough. Maybe Kalam, or Whiskeyjack. Possibly Icarium, but they need to showcase him more. But Chris, wait till you encounter Karsa Orlong, descendant of an ancient, uber-mighty kickass race, that is like 10-12 feet tall and almost indestructable. This dude brings badassity to a whole new level. And he's a total fuckin' wildcard, which rules. Wait till you see.



I'm hoping for some glorious goodness out of Caladan Brood too. I don't know why I like Whiskeyjack so much since he really doesn't do much (so far) but the dude is just cool as nails.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Well, I can't fault your literary and musical tastes (immaculate and perfect), unlike our boy Mr. Lit-Himself, Drew.

Whom we both also really like. What the fuck? 


So, that's right, you did read Otherland. You liked that shit, aye?


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

> I also thought the latest was really good, and back on track. Shit actually happened!



The thing is, Jordan has cancer and Martin is like morbidly obese. Unlike WOT/Malazan, GRRM has the entire ASOIAF series in his head. I think honestly both will die before actually finishing the series, especially Jordan, and WoT at the very least will be finished by a ghostwriter.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Well, I can't fault your literary and musical tastes (immaculate and perfect), unlike our boy Mr. Lit-Himself, Drew.
> 
> Whom we both also really like. What the fuck?
> 
> ...



Yeah I dug it. Not as much as the Malazan/WoT/etc genre, but it was a pretty cool departure and really well written.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

This thread would be incomplete btw without mention that Kruppe just owns all.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> The thing is (spoilers!) by the end of book 11 I am so sick of Perrin being Faile's bitch, I just want him to slap her and go back to kicking ass.


Couldn't agree more. Fuck! Pussy ain't that big a deal, dude. Especially when you's a golden-eyed, be-bearded, wolf-loving PIMP! (Not that I'd know anything about that. )




Chris said:


> I'm hoping for some glorious goodness out of Caladan Brood too. I don't know why I like Whiskeyjack so much since he really doesn't do much (so far) but the dude is just cool as nails.


Yeah. Doh! Y'know, you made me remember. My fav Malazan chacter, EASILY, is fucking Anomander Rake. How pimp is that guy, with his evil fucking sword? He's like Elric of Melniboné (dude, you'd love this series I bet), mixed with Drizz't Do'Urden.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> The thing is, Jordan has cancer and Martin is like morbidly obese. Unlike WOT/Malazan, GRRM has the entire ASOIAF series in his head. I think honestly both will die before actually finishing the series, especially Jordan, and WoT at the very least will be finished by a ghostwriter.



Can't argue this. I hope it doesn't happen, but...

Jordan did say 12 (or is it 13?) would be the final book. There's hope. But GRRM? Fuck, I doubt it, and I think you're probably dead-right (no pun intended).

I actually read a story awhile back about a guy and his dad who were reading WoT together. But his dad gave up around book 5 or 6, because he said, "Son, he'll never finish this series while I'm alive." Sure enough, the dad dies about 2 years later, I think it was. 


Kruppe, I love that fucker.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Yeah. Doh! Y'know, you made me remember. My fav Malazan chacter, EASILY, is fucking Anomander Rake. How pimp is that guy, with his evil fucking sword? He's like Elric of Melniboné (dude, you'd love this series I bet), mixed with Drizz't Do'Urden.



Yeah, probably Rake for me too. The fight with him and Tayschrenn's dragon in GOTM is fucking badass, and the sword is probably the coolest "thing" in any series like this, ever. I like him because he's sort-of-evil, but with a human side to him and a conscience. He's against the empire, but really only fighting for his people.

..And he has a giant two handed sword across his back with black smoking chains coming out of it, that makes crazy death-cart and screaming sounds. 

Best scene with him in book 1 is where he has to walk to "clear the streets" because of the festival, and he says something like "I'll manage" and just whips the fuckin' thing out and sends everyone away screaming. 

I also really like the hounds, oddly enough. I also would liked to have seen:



Spoiler



Adjucent Lorn not die off so quick. She was becoming more Lorn the woman and less Lorn the Empress's Servant right up to the time she died.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Couldn't agree more. Fuck! Pussy ain't that big a deal, dude. Especially when you's a golden-eyed, be-bearded, wolf-loving PIMP! (Not that I'd know anything about that. )



 That whole thing just drags out way too long. The fight is cool and all, and the planning and all that jive, but honestly with all the rest of the shit going on, I just want More Rand Kicking Ass and less Perrin's Wife In Trouble.

Edit: He did it with Lan, too. Lan OWNED in the first few, then he fucking kills off Moiraine  (sorta) and Nynaeve turns him into a pussy as well.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

on, surprise surprise, all counts. 

Rake's sword turns out to be even cooler, dude. I won't ruin it for you, but it has some serious implications, as to the whole plot structure, based on its creation and what it actually does.


Read Elric and Drizzt, and you'll be hard-pressed not to see the precedents for Rake as a character. But that's cool, since Elric and Drizzt are two fantasy classics. They just transcend, and sort of remind me of Wolverine. The bad-yet-good, totally ass kickers. Love those types.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

I know it has a warren and all that jive. I can't fucking want to finish this, but it'll be yet another damn fantasy series that I've read that's unfinished.


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## Chris (Apr 15, 2007)

On that note, I'm going off to read.  It's a friggin' noreaster up here, and if I lose power I don't want to plow through 250+ pages by candlelight. Sexy as that is, it's just a pain in the ass.


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## Naren (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> What can I say? I agree with all of it.
> 
> Hmm. I enjoyed the LotR movies, but yeah. I didn't get into them nearly as much as my love for the series would have indicated. I still vastly prefer the books to the movies, and would rather re-read them again then watch the movies.



Before the LotR movies came out, I had read each of the novels 9 times (except "Fellowship" which I'd read 10 times) and I really really expected the movie to suck because every single other movie adaptation of the books had sucked (that horrible Bashki adaptation from the 70's and those mediocre kiddy animations of "The Hobbit" and "Return Of The King" from the 80's), but when I actually saw the movie, I thought it was excellent. Sure, some parts from the novels that I really really liked were missing and some parts were changed, but I thought that was fine and actually worked well for the film (I wrote a 15-page essay in college comparing the chapters on Moria in the book and the scenes in the movie and how they were different, what was different, why, and how it effected everything)

I own the special editions of all the movies on DVD and have seen them several times, but whenever I read the novels, I don't think of the characters from the movie (although the actors in the movies _do_ look pretty close to my imagination of how they look with a few exceptions, most notably being Frodo and Treebeard). I guess the reason for that might be because I had read the series 9-10 times before seeing the movies and that had engrained images of the characters into my mind.

Pretty much, LotR has always been my favorite fantasy series. The Dark Tower comes second, although it's more of a "fantasy-meets-western-meets-sci-fi-meets-horror-meets-weird" type series (and is why I got so addicted).

I've read a few more, but I have no idea what most of you guys' abbreviations stand for.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

ASoIaF = A Song of Ice and Fire. George R. R. Martin.

WoT = The Wheel of Time. Robert Jordan.

MBotF = Malazan Book of the Fallen. Steven Erikson.


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## Naren (Apr 15, 2007)

The only one of those I know is The Wheel of Time.


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## noodles (Apr 15, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> :TDT: Roland is mine, too. He reminds me much of myself. But I really, really like wise-ass Eddie, too, and probably why I get along with Noodles so well. My best friend is a real wise-ass character just like that. Ka-tet.



...and I like Eddie because I pretty much am Eddie. I take those "Which TDT character are you?" quizes and come out Eddie every time. By a lot.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

*The Must-Read Fantasy Series List!*


The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien.
A Song of Ice and Fire, by George R. R. Martin
The Dark Tower, by Stephen King
The Wheel of Time, by Robert Jordan
Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, by Tad Williams
The Otherland Series, by Tad Williams
Malazan Book of the Fallen, by Steven Erikson
The Legend of Drizzt, by R.A. Salvatore
The Elric Saga, by Michael Moorcock
The Dragonlance Chronicles, and Legends, by Margeret Weis and Tracy Hickman
The Death Gate Cycle, by Weis and Hickman
The Riftwar Saga, by Raymond E. Feist
The Belgariad and The Mallorean, by David Eddings (Also 'Belgarath the Sorcerer' and 'Polgara the Sorceress', as stand-alone novels in the series)
The Books of the Swords, AKA, the Swords of Power, by Fred Saberhagen
The Sword of Truth, by Terry Goodkind (NOTE - I did not enjoy this series as much as the aforementioned, as I feel the writing, while interesting, can be somewhat cliched and amateurish.)

These are pretty much the main ones, and generally the best, in this genre. With the exception of the last series I mentioned (which is admittedly OK, just not my personal favorite), everything is fairly well written and enjoyable.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 15, 2007)

noodles said:


> ...and I like Eddie because I pretty much am Eddie. I take those "Which TDT character are you?" quizes and come out Eddie every time. By a lot.



Exactly. 

Ka-tet, you say true, I say thankya.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 16, 2007)

-ity


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## noodles (Apr 16, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Ka-tet, you say true, I say thankya.



SWEET WEEPING, CREEPING CHRIST!


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## scott from _actual time_ (Apr 17, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> These are pretty much the main ones, and generally the best, in this genre.


y'all need to read R Scott Bakker's _Prince of Nothing_trilogy, that i recommended in another Malazan thread. it's like Dune desert politics plus Malazan combat, and he's a really good writer.

and when you're ready for the ultimate fantasy-saga mind-fuck, pick up Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun tetrology. it's epic fantasy that's so brilliant it's also literature.


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## Drew (Apr 17, 2007)

I refuse to pick the Wheel of Time back up before Jordan finishes it.  (IF he does :/)

So, are The Dark Tower and Malazan finished? If so, which should I read next? I was a fantasy dork as a kid, and I enjoyed getting back into it when Bob sort of made me read A Song of Ice and Fire.


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## Chris (Apr 17, 2007)

DT: Yes
Mala: No

You read all of GRRM's stuff?


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## Drew (Apr 17, 2007)

Unless he finished a new one since like December, yes.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 17, 2007)

Yay!  for Drew.


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## Chris (Apr 17, 2007)

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm almost liking Malazan as much as DT lately. Either or is win-win as far as what you should pick up.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 17, 2007)

It is a fantastic series. I couldn't put it down, and now I'm jonesing for book 5. 

It's hard to get into anything else. (Although Tad Williams' new series is helping. )


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## Chris (Apr 18, 2007)

I struggled through Otherland, to be honest. I liked the first couple, but it got a little stale/boring after awhile.

!Xabbu totally owns though.


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## Drew (Apr 18, 2007)

I read a few Tad Williams novels as a kid, though I can't remember which ones. I wasn't overly overwhelmed.


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## Vegetta (Apr 18, 2007)

Here is my must read list 

China Mieville
*Perdido Street Station
The Scar
Iron Council *

Stop whatever you are doing, go out to a bookstore and pick these up - they are that good. His characters, plots and prose are all amazing


> Amazon.com's Best of 2001
> When Mae West said, "Too much of a good thing can be wonderful," she could have been talking about China Miéville's Perdido Street Station. The novel's publication met with a burst of extravagant praise from Big Name Authors and was almost instantly a multiaward finalist. You expect hyperbole in blurbs; and sometimes unworthy books win awards, so nominations don't necessarily mean much. But Perdido Street Station deserves the acclaim. It's ambitious and brilliant and--rarity of rarities--sui generis. Its clearest influences are Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy and M. John Harrison's Viriconium books, but it isn't much like them. It's Dickensian in scope, but fast-paced and modern. It's a love song for cities, and it packs a world into its strange, sprawling, steam-punky city of New Crobuzon. It can be read with equal validity as fantasy, science fiction, horror, or slipstream. It's got love, loss, crime, sex, riots, mad scientists, drugs, art, corruption, demons, dreams, obsession, magic, aliens, subversion, torture, dirigibles, romantic outlaws, artificial intelligence, and dangerous cults.
> 
> Generous, gaudy, grand, grotesque, gigantic, grim, grimy, and glorious, Perdito Street Station is a bloody fascinating book. It's also so massive that you may begin to feel you're getting too much of a good thing; just slow down and enjoy.
> ...



L.E. Modesitt
Recluse books (Magic of Recluse and The Magic Engineer are probably my favs out of the bunch)

Julian May
Saga of Pliocene Exile 

*The Many Colored Land
The Golden Torc
Nonborn king
The Adversary*

While this is a series set in the Galactic Mileu (meaning sci fi roots) 
basically the premise is a man invents a one-way time portal to the pliocene.
A lot of square peg/misfit types decide to leave everything and go there...
They are suprised to find 2 lo-tech alien races living there when they get there. 

Great Characters, Great plot , very good prose 

William King
Slayer Series (warhammer Fantasy novels) good stuff

Dan Abnet
*Riders of the Dead*
Another book set in the warhammer world - really good stuff

Charles De lint
Trader
a modern time + magic book
A luthier named Max Trader has had his body switched with someone else and is trying to get his old body back - really good book 


> From Publishers Weekly
> A master of urban fantasy returns with one of his finest works. One morning, a quiet, responsible luthier (guitar-maker), Leonard Trader, wakes up in the body of charming ne'er-do-well Johnny Devlin. At the same time, Devlin takes over Trader's body. Devlin starts cutting a swathe through the money, women and liquor in Trader's circle, while Trader has to struggle for survival on the mean streets while trying to figure out what happened to him and what he can do about it. This quest takes him (as such quests have taken many of de Lint's characters) into what is in, in effect, a marvelously wrought land of Faerie. De Lint (Memory and Dream, etc.) builds his story from a succession of well-chosen and well-expressed details. He eschews herding his lead characters into some grand, eternal arena; nothing is at stake here except their personal fates. Devlin and Trader are made so sympathetic in de Lint's seasoned hands, however, that the lack of a cosmic stage for their drama doesn't detract one bit from their wholly engaging adventures.


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## Chris (Apr 28, 2007)

Malazan, again:

How many times can you re-read 500+ pages of a book you finished a month ago and still get goosebumps?

Deadhouse Gates is probably the best fantasy (if you can call it that) book I've ever read. Abso-fucking-lutely AMAZING.


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## Chris (May 16, 2007)

Well, less than a month later and I can say that MoI, the third Malazan book, is just as good. 

 I fucking forgot to pick up book 4 at lunch today though.


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## Chris (May 18, 2007)

Yo boober, have you seen/read these?

Amazon.com: Blood Follows: A Tale of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach: Books: Steven Erikson,Mike Dringenberg

Malazan spinoffs.


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## The Dark Wolf (May 18, 2007)

Heard of 'em. haven't read them (yet).


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## Chris (May 22, 2007)

Holy fuck, I'm about ~300 pages into House of Chains and just plowing right through it. Karsa Orlong is one badass motherfucker.


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## The Dark Wolf (May 22, 2007)

Chris said:


> Holy fuck, I'm about ~300 pages into House of Chains and just plowing right through it. Karsa Orlong is one badass motherfucker.



I figured you'd like that guy.


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## Chris (May 22, 2007)

Spoiler



So Karsa = Toblakai from Deadhouse Gates?



[action=Chris]is still reading this damn book at 2 in the morning, and has to get up in 4 hours. [/action]

Edit: I figured it out.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2008)




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## The Dark Wolf (Feb 6, 2008)

I picked up the latest Malazan book, 'The Bonehunters', but I'm in the middle of Colleen McCullough's latest first. I read a bit, though, and it seems great!


The Scott Lynch books about Locke Lamora are also incredible. As Metal Ken will likely attest.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2008)

You're going to love BH. It's all Kalam kicking ass, through and through.


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## The Dark Wolf (Feb 6, 2008)

You'd love the Locke Lamora shit.


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## Abhorred (Feb 6, 2008)

Just wanted to add that I  ASoIaF. Martin better get the rest of the books out post-haste.

Just... no more chapters of Brienne walking around Westeros in real time, please. Please?


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## sakeido (Feb 6, 2008)

Chris said:


> You're going to love BH. It's all Kalam kicking ass, through and through.



I quite liked BH but I thought Bottle was cooler than the rest. Some pretty shocking shit happens. I thought it petered out towards the end though... and then there are some characters who just do nothing.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2008)

sakeido said:


> I quite liked BH but I thought Bottle was cooler than the rest. Some pretty shocking shit happens. I thought it petered out towards the end though... and then there are some characters who just do nothing.



As a whole, the first "saga" with Caladan Brood and the original Bridgeburners was better than the second age, but I'm so enamored with this series I can't find anything bad to say about either.

I could seriously read 5,000 pages about Kalam though.


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## sakeido (Feb 6, 2008)

I haven't read the first ones. I've got House of Chains, Deadhouse Gates and the Bonehunters, still need to pick up the new one. I am still waiting for a showdown betwee Karsa and Icarium. That will be fucking epic.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Feb 7, 2008)

Forgotten Realms books are pretty sweet. The Drizzt series owns face, as does the first few Elminster books.


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## Vegetta (Feb 14, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Forgotten Realms books are pretty sweet. The Drizzt series owns face, as does the first few Elminster books.



I like the Elminster books  Ed Greenwood is a good author


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## Thomas (Feb 16, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Forgotten Realms books are pretty sweet. The Drizzt series owns face



That reminds me that a new book was released recently, some time last year, and I have yet to pick it up. I will have to re-read that several last ones to get a recap and details of the story, as it's been a while since I have read Drizzt.

My personal favorites are Homeland and Sojourn from the Dark Elf Trilogy. The Spine of the World from the Paths of Darkness series is excellent as well. The most graphic and brutal of them all, from what I remember.


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## chaztrip (May 16, 2008)

So I just got back in the game and at Chriss prodding started on the Book of the Fallen I plowed through Gardens in about 5 days and was blown away by it!!!  I am a huge GRRM fan and love ASOIF, but the Magery and Sorcery in Malazan is blowing my mind. I am just now going to start on Dead house.. SO I think for some reason I am falling for Tattersail or Quick Ben. I hope to see more of them!!

ASOIF I have to go with Tyrion and Arya 

I am pumped about Malazan. I hope he gets the thing wrapped up!!!!!


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## cev (May 16, 2008)

Well, unlike most 'epic fantasy' authors, Steven Erikson actually writes books at a reasonable rate, which is yet another plus to the series. I feel like I've been waiting forever for the next George RR Martin book to come out. 

Can't wait for Reaper's Gale to come out in paperback


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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)




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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)

cev said:


> Well, unlike most 'epic fantasy' authors, Steven Erikson actually writes books at a reasonable rate, which is yet another plus to the series. I feel like I've been waiting forever for the next George RR Martin book to come out.
> 
> Can't wait for Reaper's Gale to come out in paperback



RG is excellent. Silchas Ruin, ftmfw. I got the trade paperback on eBay for ~$20 or so.

Edit: Kalam > *


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## chaztrip (Jun 21, 2008)

Ok so I am almost done with Memories Of Ice..... there were times where I was like what is going on here!!!! but then 100 or so pages later he brings it together. Some times I get the feeling the world is too big, I mean with all the Gods and Undead and what not........... but!!!! It is Great!!!!!


I want to get a Hammer like Brood!!!


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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)

Malazan rules because it's like gritty soldier war-fantasy, not pussy wizards with wands like LOTRO. I love the concept of mages being just like any other soldier, just a grunt with a weapon. 

Great series, imo better than both WOT and SOIAF. Plus, the author won't die before it's finished like WOT and like SOIAF is destined to be.


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## chaztrip (Jun 21, 2008)

Chris said:


> Malazan rules because it's like gritty soldier war-fantasy, not pussy wizards with wands like LOTRO. I love the concept of mages being just like any other soldier, just a grunt with a weapon.
> 
> Great series, imo better than both WOT and SOIAF. Plus, the author won't die before it's finished like WOT and like SOIAF is destined to be.




Dude if Martin dies I will be


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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)

He's doomed, dude. I'll sum it up for you in spoilers:



Spoiler



Jon Snow owns face on everyone. Marries Daenerys. Owns more face. Bran Stark turns into Robocop, starts death metal band called Bio-Leg. Eddard comes back from the dead, is pronounced tr00 kvlt by all, plays bass in Bran's band while sporting natural corpse paint. Tyrion takes over the Playboy Mansion.



That's how it ends.


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## cev (Jun 21, 2008)

IMO, there's a good chance Martin won't make it at the rate he's going. I remember predicting that Robert Jordan would die before finishing back when I was in ninth grade which was... 2001?

But yeah, Malazan is the best of those three series, definitely. Every book has at least one moment where you're just like: "Holy shit! I can't believe something so incredibly badass just happened!"


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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)

cev said:


> IMO, there's a good chance Martin won't make it at the rate he's going. I remember predicting the Robert Jordan would die before finishing back when I was in ninth grade which was... 2001?
> 
> But yeah, Malazan is the best of those three series, definitely. Every book has at least one moment where you're just like: "Holy shit! I can't believe something so incredibly badass just happened!"



What sucks is that I got that feeling in books 1-5 of WOT constantly. I liked 11 too, but the whole five books inbetween of pure shit really makes me sour about the whole series. :\ It's like 6,000 pages of sniffing Aes Sedai when the whole time I'm thinking "God, please, let the next chapter actually have Rand in it."  



Spoiler



Like in book ~4 when Rand burts out of the box he's held captive in and stills like 9 sedai around him. How fucking badass was that whole scene?



That's the shit I missed, and I suffered through books 6-10 just waiting for something like that to happen again, and all I got was:



Spoiler



The bullshit Perrin-Saves-His-Wife plotline, which after 3 books full, I really didn't give a fuck about anymore, combined with Lan being turned into a pussy after being so fucking badass in the first two books.


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## cev (Jun 21, 2008)

Honestly, I stopped reading WOT somewhere around book 9. I was like, fuck it, I'm not reading any more until he finishes this damn series. I don't want to have to re-read the whole series every time a new book comes out.

The last few I read all seemed like 900 pages of nothing happening, in which all 1000 major characters advanced their own subplots by about a day's worth of stuff, followed by one really badass last chapter. When things _happen_, the books are great, but he introduced so many subplots that nothing ever happened.

Damn it, now I really want to read Reaper's Gale. Must... wait... for... paperback...


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## Chris (Jun 21, 2008)

cev said:


> Honestly, I stopped reading WOT somewhere around book 9. I was like, fuck it, I'm not reading any more until he finishes this damn series. I don't want to have to re-read the whole series every time a new book comes out.
> 
> The last few I read all seemed like 900 pages of nothing happening, in which all 1000 major characters advanced their own subplots by about a day's worth of stuff, followed by one really badass last chapter. When things _happen_, the books are great, but he introduced so many subplots that nothing ever happened.



 Spot on, sadly. 11 is really good though. Things happen the entire book. I had to read 1-9 again though before book 10, just because after ~200 pages into it I realized that I had no idea what the fuck was happening for reasons above.



> Damn it, now I really want to read Reaper's Gale. Must... wait... for... paperback...








Not much of a spoiler really but:


Spoiler



Icarium. Karsa. Rhulad. Read it.


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## Naren (Jun 21, 2008)

I've been wanting to read Malazan since so many people recommended it to me. I tried the 3 biggest bookstores in Tokyo. The biggest of the 3 (a 10-story bookstore) didn't have any Steven Erikson books, the smallest of the 3 also didn't have any of his books, and the middle-sized one (about 7 stories) had book 3 and 4 of Malazan, but didn't have the first 2 books. 

Very sad... Might try to special order it...


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## technomancer (Jun 21, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Forgotten Realms books are pretty sweet. The Drizzt series owns face, as does the first few Elminster books.



I've recently grabbed all of these in the collectors edition hardbacks and am rereading them (well, everything but the new trilogy that's still in progress). I'm on book two of the Icewind Dale trilogy now 

I'll probably grab the Malazan series after that as the massive disparity in reviews on amazon has me intrigued


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## chaztrip (Jun 21, 2008)

technomancer said:


> I've recently grabbed all of these in the collectors edition hardbacks and am rereading them (well, everything but the new trilogy that's still in progress). I'm on book two of the Icewind Dale trilogy now
> 
> I'll probably grab the Malazan series after that as the massive disparity in reviews on amazon has me intrigued




Thats what I thought too about Malazan I looked at the reviews and people either hated it or loved it.... then Chris Guilted me into reading it

I have no regrets!!!!


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## technomancer (Jun 22, 2008)

I do have to say I have zero intention of ever reading WoT. Something about a series where people bitch about nothing happening for five books or so just doesn't peak my interest


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 3, 2008)

So, I have the latest installment of the Malazan series, 'Reaper's Gale', and boy, I'm loving it so far.



Spoiler



I'm at the point where (this isn't crucial plot stuff yet) Icarium and Karsa Orlong have just disembarked at Letheras, to in all likelihood fight the near invincible Tiste Edur Emperor Rhulad Sengar. Talk about anticipation!

When Icarium steps off the boat, and his feet touch the soil, there is an _earthquake_. And Karsa is being his typical badass self, fighting and throwing people around.  I don't know how the heck it's going to turn out, and who is ultimately badder - Icarium, Karsa, or even Rhulad, but I can't wait to find out! Feels like when Hulk Hogan was about to face Andre the Giant in Wrestlemania 3, or Ali was about to face Frazier in the Thilla in Manila.



Note: threw Spoilers in, because some people die and stuff, and if they're alive in book 7, you know they don't die.  - C


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## chaztrip (Jul 3, 2008)

I have to get my butt in gear!! I went through the First 2 in like a week it seemed, then Mem of Ice I have taken my time with and other things came up..... but now I am in the last couple hundred of pages and I am crusing along again!!! Quick Ben is just so cool!!!  I have the next 2 books waiting for me.....!!

You know I dont know why I am rushing to get through this becasue I will have to reread it again when Steve releases the next books...


But I know that I have a problem as my wife asked me to do the dishes and I told her I couldnt becasue my warren was poisioned.....


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 3, 2008)

FTR, I still like A Song of Ice and Fire better. It's, bar none, the _greatest fantasy series ever_.


Martin's plot and character development are second to none. Everyone sounds like they're reciting the Gettysburg address in Malazan. Interesting, and some deep political/philosophical shit (very interesting, in fact), but Martin's characters are more believable and realistic.


Anyone read any of Tad Williams' first two series? The first, Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn is straight up fantasy, but his take on an elf-like race is just terrific, and so original.

The next series is sort-of techno-fantasy-sci-fi, called Otherland, about this awesome, realer-than-real virtual world. On par with ASoIaF, easily.


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## cev (Jul 3, 2008)

I really enjoyed Memory, Sorrow and Thorn right until the end, where (IMO) it all went to shit and sort of ruined my enjoyment.



Spoiler



I mean, okay, so it turns out that by collecting those fancy magical swords they were actually playing into the bad guys hands all along. Great plot twist, right? So what do the good guys do? How do they react to this stunning blow? Why, they shoot the bad guy with an arrow and kill him, of course.

Excuse me? If they could have just done that all along, what the fuck was the point of the last three novels? It basically invalidated everything they did during the whole series 

And then, just when I thought the series had avoided Fantasy Cliche #1, it's like, 'oh by the way Main Character, your mysterious dead parents were descended from the ancient line of kings and now you're the king. Congratulations!' Just once, can't an orphan be a regular person who _isn't_ the heir of some awesome legacy?


But up until that point, it was a pretty good series. Never read Otherland, it seemed way too 'out there' for me. But if you're saying it's as good as ASoIaF, maybe I should check it out.


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## chaztrip (Jul 3, 2008)

Bob, I have to agree with you ASOIaF is my favorite.... there are parts of Malazan that are real good and other times not so well..... Part of me wishes that Steve would leave out a lot of the God's and some of that.... plus some of the people being around for 1000's of years is kind of strange.... I like the Sorecery and the battles....

But I did see a Dragnipur sword on ebay that I might have to bid on... doesnt come with the souls though....


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## Chris (Jul 3, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> FTR, I still like A Song of Ice and Fire better. It's, bar none, the _greatest fantasy series ever_.
> 
> 
> Martin's plot and character development are second to none. Everyone sounds like they're reciting the Gettysburg address in Malazan. Interesting, and some deep political/philosophical shit (very interesting, in fact), but Martin's characters are more believable and realistic.



This is where we differ. I like SOIAF but it's basically Song-Of-Nothing-Good-Ever-Happens-To-Anyone-You-Like. I got tired of the damsel in distress daughter plot by book 3, and seeing:



Spoiler



Renley's army get wtfpwned in two chapters after an entire book of buildup was just gay.



I like his characters, especially Tyrion and Jon Snow, but Arya/Sansa get boring, I don't like Catherine, I hate everyone at King's landing aside from maybe Bron, and imo WOT is still a better read if you disregard the plotfest that books 6-9 are.

I still love the series but Malazan smokes it in my opinion.


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## Chris (Jul 3, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> The next series is sort-of techno-fantasy-sci-fi, called Otherland, about this awesome, realer-than-real virtual world. On par with ASoIaF, easily.



I got two books into Otherland and lost interest. :\ I was at the part where they were stuck in the night-club-other-realm-thing while the chick and her father were in the bunker, and it became a chore to read. I should pick it up again someday because I hear great things about the rest of it but I'd probably have to start over.


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## Chris (Jul 3, 2008)

btw, bob, how fucking win is Silchas Ruin?


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## Chris (Jul 3, 2008)

And while I'm on the topic, SOIAF just doesn't have any absolutely awesome moments like Malazan or even WOT does.

Malazan (excluding RG since Bob's reading it)



Spoiler



The entire Chain of Dogs and the Coltaine plotline. I cried when he died, fucking brilliantly written.

The "end" of the T'lan Imass where they all bow and whatshisface (sorry, read it like a year ago) gives up his life.


The bloodbath in the city where the HGH becomes the new Destriant, grows tiger tats on his arms and fucking rips it up.

The end of Whiskeyjack. 

Anomander Rake's gambit with Moon Spawn, and the Bridgeburners being entombed in there afterwards.

Just about every scene with Kalam vs. an entire city full of Claw. Fuck all, most badass character ever.



WOT:



Spoiler



Rand breaking out of the box and stilling like 5 Sedai around him.

The first "real" fight of the Asha'Men where they do the rolling waves of fire and it's so much carnage that it makes Rand sick. Then later on with the death-gates, damn that's badass.

The first siege on the stone of Tear.

All the early scenes with Lan before he became a pussy.



SOIAF:



Spoiler



Hrm. :\


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 3, 2008)

Silchas is awesome! I kinda wanna see him and Anomander (my favorite Malazan character... well, maybe Fiddler, too) go toe-to-toe. I tell you what, no one writes epic characters like Erikson. In fact, as soon as I started reading about Silchas, I thought "I gotta talk to Chris about how great this guy is." 


Speaking of GRR Martin, IMO, there are some great literary scenes. Here's a terrific ASoIaF moment -



Spoiler



Ned dies. WTF!?


That was one of the most shocking and surprising things I've ever read. HATED IT... but then I realized I loved it. Martin had me like Tom Cruise had Renee Zellweger after that point.

Really, I could personally name a bunch more, to be honest.


As for WoT, I still love it, _but_ I have to be honest, I'm really, really jaded about it. I've been reading that series since the first month that Book #1, Eye of the World, was published. Over half my life. And while I appreciate long, epic fantasy stories, two issues really jump out, and make it hard for me to find the same inspiration in this series as I did after the first few books -

1) Such huuuuge waits in-between publishing times. I've waited years for many of these books. Martin's shit is going the same way, unfortunately. A new Malazan book pops up constantly, but those two guys? Shit.
2) The drag-on nature of the second half of the WoT books (excepting the newest, which was pretty darn good.) It felt almost insulting... like, these were published just to wring more dollars out of the loyal fans, like me. It's not that they're terrible books. They're not. But they do NOTHING to really advance the story. 1 or 2 books of that, well... perhaps excusable. But 5 or 6?

So, it's harder for me to get excited about WoT.  So many better things out there now.


The thing about TMBotF is the epic scale of the series. One of my earlier complaints, how it sounds like every discussion is a speech, or the friggin' Continental Congress , is also one of its strengths. Yes, the dialogue usually doesn't sound like real people talking wavey: Hiya, GRR Martin) but it's such a metaphorical discourse on life, politics, the nature of the world, humanity, morality... it's like sitting at the feet of Socrates. Nothing out there like that. So, Malazan wins not because of its realism, but because of its metaphorical power.

I will admit, however, that this series has not impacted me the same way it has you, Chris. I love it, don't get me wrong, but different strokes. Still, it's telling, since we seem to really be drawn to the same things -

Dark Tower
WoT
ASoIaF
Malazan

And that's not even mentioning movies (Tombstone), other books (Kerouac), and shit like that. Just differing degrees of overall similar appreciation. In fact, the whole reason I am reading the Malazan series is because you brought it to my attention.


As for Otherland, you stopped just before the good stuff.  Yeah, the early stuff, while good IMO, can be a bit slower, AFTER that is where they enter the VR world. ('Nuff said.) Let's just say it gets real interesting after that. Almost like the most badass Alice in Wonderland ever.


Wow. I've turned into Drew.


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## chaztrip (Jul 4, 2008)

Bob or Chris, have either of you read the The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb?


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## Chris (Jul 4, 2008)

I own the first book actually, I plan to read it along with Thomas Covenant when I take off for the next month, and pick one to keep on with.


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## chaztrip (Jul 4, 2008)

I bought all 3 as a lot for 5 bucks.... as soon as I get through Reapers Gale that is my next batch.... many friends of mine at work really liked it.. so we shall see.


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## Chris (Jul 4, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Silchas is awesome! I kinda wanna see him and Anomander (my favorite Malazan character... well, maybe Fiddler, too) go toe-to-toe. I tell you what, no one writes epic characters like Erikson. In fact, as soon as I started reading about Silchas, I thought "I gotta talk to Chris about how great this guy is."



 I said the same thing like 100 pages in. "I can't wait until Bob reads about this fuckin' guy". 



> Speaking of GRR Martin, IMO, there are some great literary scenes. Here's a terrific ASoIaF moment -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hated it, still hate it. :\ It does show that:



Spoiler



Martin isn't afraid to kill off any of his "main" characters at any time, which makes them all more human, which I dig. I mean, you KNOW Rand's not going to die unless he gets offed in book 12.






> As for WoT,2) The drag-on nature of the second half of the WoT books (excepting the newest, which was pretty darn good.) It felt almost insulting... like, these were published just to wring more dollars out of the loyal fans, like me. It's not that they're terrible books. They're not. But they do NOTHING to really advance the story. 1 or 2 books of that, well... perhaps excusable. But 5 or 6?



Yep. Agree 100%. The second time through WoT I enjoyed book 6-10 a lot more though, because I wasn't basically waiting for asskicking the whole time. Once I resigned myself to a snorefest I was able to get into the plot a little more. The downside of that is the more I got into it and saw storylines that went nowhere for 300 pages it was even more evident that he was just sucking up cash. They're well-written and enjoyable storylines, but they don't belong in the series.



> The thing about TMBotF is the epic scale of the series. One of my earlier complaints, how it sounds like every discussion is a speech, or the friggin' Continental Congress , is also one of its strengths. Yes, the dialogue usually doesn't sound like real people talking wavey: Hiya, GRR Martin) but it's such a metaphorical discourse on life, politics, the nature of the world, humanity, morality... it's like sitting at the feet of Socrates. Nothing out there like that. So, Malazan wins not because of its realism, but because of its metaphorical power.



Spot-on. Erikson can write some really fucking great speeches and churn out gorgeous metaphors. He does tend to lay it on thick but there are just so many fucking awesome quotes from the books that I can't get enough of. 



> I will admit, however, that this series has not impacted me the same way it has you, Chris. I love it, don't get me wrong, but different strokes. Still, it's telling, since we seem to really be drawn to the same things -



Absolutely. 



> As for Otherland, you stopped just before the good stuff.  Yeah, the early stuff, while good IMO, can be a bit slower, AFTER that is where they enter the VR world. ('Nuff said.) Let's just say it gets real interesting after that. Almost like the most badass Alice in Wonderland ever.



I'll definitely pick it back up, because I loved the first book but once they started floating down rivers on giant leaves and fighting imaginary VR bugs on the way to (iirc?) a city or something in a treestump, I got a little suspicious. 



> Wow. I've turned into Drew.



Naw. That fag hasn't read DT.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 4, 2008)

^ Awesome. You've turned into Drew too, dude. 

Charlie - Yep, I've read everything from Hobb. Here's my take -

1. Her plots are... eh, not the best. Workmanlike and serviceable.
2. Her characters are BAR NONE the best I've ever read.



Spoiler



In her series about Fitz, when Nighteyes died, I was ab-sol-fucking-lutely devastated. Serious cried. I had just lost my cat, who was liek my best friend, only the week or so before. Man, that was tough to read. Fitz saying, "Wait!" as Nighteyes passed. Woo! Tearing up thinking about it.



I love Robin Hobb. I just finished with her 'Soldier Son' trilogy a few weeks back. Great read. She sucks you into her world better than almost anyone this side of Stephen King.


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## Drew (Jul 8, 2008)

You assholes.  

Any word on a new SOIAF novel? Or, for that matter, if there will be a final WOT? I'd heard rumors of a posthumous competion, but...

In only vaguely related news, I just finished Phillip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy, from which "The Golden Compass" was pulled. Really, it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in this thread, so I'll keep this brief. It's poorly written, predictable, derivative, heavy handed, and for all the buildup about the church being the bad guys for once, it's just pretty lame. all the characters are two dimensional - the only time you ever find yourself emotionally invested in any of them even a tiny bit is when someone dies, which IMO if you have to kill someone off to get a rise, you're cheating. 

I mean, it's basically a kid's book... But Harry Potter at least had believable characters making believable choices, while this had 2D characters switching sides on you for very primitive, simple reasons that no one really would follow. 

[action=Drew]just wanted to feel like part of the group. [/action]


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## Naren (Jul 8, 2008)

Then read The Dark Tower series.


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## NewArmyGuitar (Jul 8, 2008)

Drew said:


> Any word on a new SOIAF novel? Or, for that matter, if there will be a final WOT? I'd heard rumors of a posthumous competion, but...



I don't know about SOIAF, but there will be a final WOT.

`Dragonmount` | A Memory of Light


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## sakeido (Jul 8, 2008)

Drew said:


> You assholes.
> 
> Any word on a new SOIAF novel? Or, for that matter, if there will be a final WOT? I'd heard rumors of a posthumous competion, but...
> 
> ...



I feel exactly the opposite. Harry Potter had no believable characters, set in an otherwise very interesting world, and the story really sucked. JK Rowling is also a total hack writer. His Dark Materials, on the other hand, was extremely well written, more complex, enchanting, and imaginative. JK Rowling practically beat you to death with descriptions, feelings, and speeches; Pullman's delivery is much more subtle and nuanced.


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## chaztrip (Jul 9, 2008)

Ok just about done with Memories of Ice and ............... 



Spoiler



WhiskeyJack freaking dies!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????


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## Drew (Jul 9, 2008)

sakeido said:


> I feel exactly the opposite. Harry Potter had no believable characters, set in an otherwise very interesting world, and the story really sucked. JK Rowling is also a total hack writer. His Dark Materials, on the other hand, was extremely well written, more complex, enchanting, and imaginative. JK Rowling practically beat you to death with descriptions, feelings, and speeches; Pullman's delivery is much more subtle and nuanced.



Really? Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I had the exact opposite impression. Off the top of my head, the scene where one of the gyptians (sp?) flat out said an interpretation of events in conversation to Lyra when whats-his-name almost got poisoned at the opening of the books, that was more effective left implicit. That's about as un-subtle and un-nuanced as you get. 

Rowling was a hack in that she borrowed pretty freely from others, sure, but she was an adept child's author. Her problem now is that she's not likely to ever be anything but.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 9, 2008)

This Reaper's Gale rules, rules, rules!

And you know what I love about it? It almost feels like A GRR Martin book. 

Erikson's writing is just improving. This book has the pacing and feel, especially with the deeper character development and improved dialogue, of a Martin book. But it still has Erikson's awesome philosophical bent, and the terrific Malazan un-formulaic and incredibly intricate world.


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## chaztrip (Jul 9, 2008)

Well I am done with Memories...... man that was EPIC!!!!

The whole battle at Coral I just was like 



now on to House of Chains...


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## progmetaldan (Jul 9, 2008)

Oooh, epic fantasy thread, can't believe I didn't find this earlier... 

I love Wheel of time and Song of Ice and Fire, can't wait for the next installments... Shame Jordan died though, hopefully the final book will be a fitting end to an epic series...

Anyone else here into David Eddings? I've just started reading The Tamuli trilogy, and The Elenium trilogy I absolutely loved...

Can't go past LotR for epic fantasy I guess either, that will always be a favourite.

Favourite characters?

I've always been drawn to the heroic, but withdrawn characters who end up in a position of nobility etc.

WoT- Probably Perrin Goldeneyes
SoIaF- It'd be easier if GRRM didn't constantly kill off his main characters... Probably Jon Snow at the moment I reckon...
The Elenium/The Tamuli- Definately Sparhawk, for some reason I can relate, and he makes me wish I was a knight... haha
Lord Of The Rings- Similarly I always had a lot of respect for Aragorn, he's always been my favourite.

hmmm, what other series do I like?


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 10, 2008)

I've read everything Eddings has written, times beyond counting.

I've probably read the first Belgariad (5 books) and the follow-up The Mallorean (5 books) 15 times, at least. Great stuff.

As for favorite characters... yeesh. Who knows? I like them all. Your list is real close to mine, I guess, if I had to choose. Probably exactly mine. But it's hard to narrow it down.


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## progmetaldan (Jul 10, 2008)

yeah, its tough, there's cool stuff about all of them...


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## chaztrip (Jul 24, 2008)

If Karsa Orlong had a wallet... it would be the one that says "Bad Mother F****er" on it.


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## chaztrip (Jul 25, 2008)

Chris said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




WOW...... this is getting crazy good!!!!

OK now I think I push this series over ASOIAF


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## Trespass (Jul 26, 2008)

I read this thread intently as WoT was mentioned. I've been reading that for ages as well, have the companion guide and the Prequel 

Yeah, sadly 2 months after you guys were talking about it pages back, he did die. (Robert Jordan) as you well know.



Thoughts?


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 26, 2008)

Sucks.


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