# Chapman Guitars going back to having sevens...



## zarg (Jan 25, 2018)

Rob just showed off a few guitars from NAMM, including some sevenstringed action. Pretty cool new color "Unicorn Burst".

What is your opinion about the guitars in general and the new ones?


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## Curt (Jan 25, 2018)

That white Norseman is absolutely gorgeous, as is the purple Ghost Fret. I find myself enjoying some of the things I see from Chapman, but very hesitant to pull the trigger on it above anything else. But the Norseman is really giving my Balaguer Semi-custom idea a run for its money.


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## BlueTrident (Jan 25, 2018)

The new Bea model looks really classy and tasteful


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## cip 123 (Jan 25, 2018)

Like the looks of the 7, but their pro line is sadly just doesn't seem competitive when you look at other brands at the same price. All chapman branded hardware and pickups for just shy of £1100? I'll just buy a Schecter with Hipshot and duncans/Schecter custom shop pups.

It's nice you get a hardcase, and there are hipshot locking tuners on em. But they really are fighting with some crazy spec'd guitars these days.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 25, 2018)

The ML1 Norseman looks great. The black one looks a little inspired by Pete Thorn's Suhr Sig...


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## MegaTones (Jan 25, 2018)

Never seen the appeal of Chapman guitars, unless you buy your guitars to support Rob himself.

Generic shapes, MIK at best, generic pickups, generic hardware, etc


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## zarg (Jan 25, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Like the looks of the 7, but their pro line is sadly just doesn't seem competitive when you look at other brands at the same price. All chapman branded hardware and pickups for just shy of £1100? I'll just buy a Schecter with Hipshot and duncans/Schecter custom shop pups.
> 
> It's nice you get a hardcase, and there are hipshot locking tuners on em. But they really are fighting with some crazy spec'd guitars these days.



at least they have stainless frets


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## lurè (Jan 25, 2018)

Sorry I can't stand Chapman's headstocks.


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## cip 123 (Jan 25, 2018)

zarg said:


> at least they have stainless frets


Ibanez and Schecter do as well at that price point.


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## Curt (Jan 25, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Ibanez and Schecter do as well at that price point.


Do they? I haven't seen an Ibanez with stainless frets below prestige level, and even then I don't think most of them have been to this point.


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## cip 123 (Jan 25, 2018)

Curt said:


> Do they? I haven't seen an Ibanez with stainless frets below prestige level, and even then I don't think most of them have been to this point.



The premiums have them now on select models. And the cheapest prestige with them is £1199...£100 more than these Chapmans.


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## TedEH (Jan 25, 2018)

MegaTones said:


> Generic shapes, MIK at best, generic pickups, generic hardware, etc


I dunno, it kind of appeals to me, and I imaging to others for similar reasons. I like the plain shapes/finishes. The MIK build of any one that I tried was no worse than stuff I've owned from "more expensive" places. The Chapman-branded pickups in my ML7-S actually sound pretty good (whereas I was immediately disappointed with the pickups in most 7s I owned until I swapped them). The hardware (on mine at least) is all name-brand standard stuff (hipshot/gotoh/etc). My only complaint is that the volume knob got scratchy pretty quickly, but that's all of $2 and 10 minutes to fix when I stop being lazy- and is the kind of maintenance I've had to do on any instrument I've owned under $1000 CAD. YMMV I guess.


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## manu80 (Jan 25, 2018)

looks good. 
Still what's the fuss about that blue/purple fade? seems like the color of 2018 everywhere...ESP, Jackson, ibanez...DBZ/dimaond did that 2 years ago I guess....


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## Frostbite (Jan 25, 2018)

Curt said:


> That white Norseman is absolutely gorgeous, as is the purple Ghost Fret. I find myself enjoying some of the things I see from Chapman, but very hesitant to pull the trigger on it above anything else. But the Norseman is really giving my Balaguer Semi-custom idea a run for its money.


Yeah the Norseman is the closest I'll get to having Bea's ML1 relic so I think i may need to buy it


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## cip 123 (Jan 25, 2018)

TedEH said:


> I dunno, it kind of appeals to me, and I imaging to others for similar reasons. I like the plain shapes/finishes. The MIK build of any one that I tried was no worse than stuff I've owned from "more expensive" places. The Chapman-branded pickups in my ML7-S actually sound pretty good (whereas I was immediately disappointed with the pickups in most 7s I owned until I swapped them). The hardware (on mine at least) is all name-brand standard stuff (hipshot/gotoh/etc). My only complaint is that the volume knob got scratchy pretty quickly, but that's all of $2 and 10 minutes to fix when I stop being lazy- and is the kind of maintenance I've had to do on any instrument I've owned under $1000 CAD. YMMV I guess.



You have an old one. It's been entirely redesigned since then. No more name brand hardware. It's not the same guitar, it's more expensive for comparatively less (depending on how you look at). The new models are much more expensive compared to the old ones.


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## Frostbite (Jan 25, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> You have an old one. It's been entirely redesigned since then. No more name brand hardware. It's not the same guitar, it's more expensive for comparatively less (depending on how you look at). The new models are much more expensive compared to the old ones.


TBF, while it may not have name brand stuff outside the tuners, it doesn't mean it's bad. I think people get too caught up in the where it's made and what's on it and don't just judge it on if it's good or not. I definitely understand wanting to have something you know for a fact will be good and not have to worry about it and know that's it's gonna have longevity, but on the flip side it could still be good. We just don't know ATM. I am extremely biased though as Rob's vids from way back in the day convinced me to buy a guitar so take what i say with a grain of salt


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## cip 123 (Jan 25, 2018)

Frostbite said:


> TBF, while it may not have name brand stuff outside the tuners, it doesn't mean it's bad. I think people get too caught up in the where it's made and what's on it and don't just judge it on if it's good or not. I definitely understand wanting to have something you know for a fact will be good and not have to worry about it and know that's it's gonna have longevity, but on the flip side it could still be good. We just don't know ATM. I am extremely biased though as Rob's vids from way back in the day convinced me to buy a guitar so take what i say with a grain of salt



I get that no-name stuff can be good. But the market Rob has put himself in is against him. His Pro series sort of relies on (imo) "real tops" and neck thru etc. Stuff that makes it look very pretty and nice, but that market is also filled with guitars that not only look very good, they have name brand stuff on there.

The best example off the top of my head is a Schecter Banshee Elite. Comparatively looks as pretty as the Chapman, but is loaded with more features and it's only £100 more. Also if I have a Grand to spare I'm probably gonna see whats on the horizon of my budget, someone with a £1000 can get themselves a good deal on the higher end stuff, Prestige Ibanez, PRS S2, Fender American.

Again these look really nice, and I actually like Rob but with my own money? Not a chance. They used to be in a good space in the market but they've really got themselves fighting an uphill battle in their current price range.

EDIT: the Schecter KM MK1 is even closer in price range and boasts more than the chapman for less than £10 more.


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## Frostbite (Jan 25, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> I get that no-name stuff can be good. But the market Rob has put himself in is against him. His Pro series sort of relies on (imo) "real tops" and neck thru etc. Stuff that makes it look very pretty and nice, but that market is also filled with guitars that not only look very good, they have name brand stuff on there.
> 
> The best example off the top of my head is a Schecter Banshee Elite. Comparatively looks as pretty as the Chapman, but is loaded with more features and it's only £100 more. Also if I have a Grand to spare I'm probably gonna see whats on the horizon of my budget, someone with a £1000 can get themselves a good deal on the higher end stuff, Prestige Ibanez, PRS S2, Fender American.
> 
> Again these look really nice, and I actually like Rob but with my own money? Not a chance. They used to be in a good space in the market but they've really got themselves fighting an uphill battle in their current price range.


Yeah I can agree with that. I'd like to see what people thought of the Pro line when it came out but no one on here really bought one so it's hard to tell if it's actually any good. Only one of the line I'd buy is the Norseman and that's because, like I said, is the closest to the ML1 Bea Relic and I just love the look of that guitar. At the same time I really can't fault anyone for going with something else


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## Nlelith (Jan 25, 2018)

I really like Norseman specs (mahogany, floyd, SS frets, etc.), and dark grey version looks pretty good. But that trans white is as hideous as all trans white guitars are.


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## Anquished (Jan 26, 2018)

I am intrigued by the new 7's although the price for them seems pretty steep. As pointed out already, there are other brands with more for the money.


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## SDMFVan (Jan 26, 2018)

I just saw a video on FB of Chapman announcing a line of (I believe) UK made guitars in the $3500 range. Uhhh...what?


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## scrub (Jan 26, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> I just saw a video on FB of Chapman announcing a line of (I believe) UK made guitars in the $3500 range. Uhhh...what?


LOL


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## zarg (Jan 26, 2018)

wow, that's very unexpected. wonder how well those will sell considering there are many very reputable high end "boutique" guitar builders out there - so far I don't see what sets them apart from others


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## Zado (Jan 26, 2018)

Fugly headstocks into a new level


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## lurè (Jan 26, 2018)

pls


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## Zado (Jan 26, 2018)

I give em 1 year


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## cip 123 (Jan 26, 2018)

So another overpriced line?


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## CapinCripes (Jan 26, 2018)

Yeah, no. Im not paying 3500 for a chapman. Also, can we talk about the finish on those for a second.... Mirrored gradient fade is one of the worst finish ideas ive ever seen.


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## Zado (Jan 26, 2018)

Yeah they look SO mid priced MIK stuff.


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## cip 123 (Jan 26, 2018)

The guitars shown in the "British" line look like the guitars that should be fighting it out in the £1000-£1500 bracket they have the pro line in right now.


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## zarg (Jan 26, 2018)

plus if they're really that pricey as I think they could have gone all out with the british theme and get some BKPs in there.... not sure about the chapman own branded pickups in a "high end" guitar. we'll see I guess


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## CapinCripes (Jan 26, 2018)

zarg said:


> plus if they're really that pricey as I think they could have gone all out with the british theme and get some BKPs in there.... not sure about the chapman own branded pickups in a "high end" guitar. we'll see I guess


You would think at that price point name brand pickups are a given. I mean its super easy to change them but, why should you have to in a 3K+ guitar. makes me wonder if all the hardware is the same as the base chapmans. now wouldn't that be a mess.


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## zarg (Jan 26, 2018)

CapinCripes said:


> You would think at that price point name brand pickups are a given. I mean its super easy to change them but, why should you have to in a 3K+ guitar. makes me wonder if all the hardware is the same as the base chapmans. now wouldn't that be a mess.



the hardtail-bridge looks like a genuine hipshot to me


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## cip 123 (Jan 26, 2018)

zarg said:


> plus if they're really that pricey as I think they could have gone all out with the british theme and get some BKPs in there.... not sure about the chapman own branded pickups in a "high end" guitar. we'll see I guess



The pickups I'm guessing actually are British (He's off his head if he puts Korean ones in it) But they'll be wound to Rob's specs and called something like "Primordial Unicorn Farts" or something. Description will read some bullsh*t about how "sonorous and epic" they sound, "crafted in Britain-shire"


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## zarg (Jan 26, 2018)




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## HeadofaHessian (Jan 26, 2018)

I cant stand the infinity inlay on the chapmans.....


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## possumkiller (Jan 26, 2018)

Don't know why all the hate. They look fine to me like any other boutique clone builder. They have nice specs. I think 3500 is fair for what it is.


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## possumkiller (Jan 26, 2018)

HeadofaHessian said:


> I cant stand the infinity inlay on the chapmans.....


Is that what it is? I always thought they simply put the 8th fret marker in the wrong place.


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## HeadofaHessian (Jan 26, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> Is that what it is? I always thought they simply put the 8th fret marker in the wrong place.


hahah, I like a lot of their guitars specs but I cant get over that inlay it just ruins it for me!


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## musicman61554 (Jan 26, 2018)

Wow.......$3500.......well I guess we shall see how it goes.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 26, 2018)

lmao chapman has lost his damn mind. Their low end stuff is great bang for the buck, but the pro series specs aren't very good for the price point. these british standard guitars are even more off base as far as pricing. 3K will basically get you a custom guitar from any number of reputable builders.


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## feraledge (Jan 26, 2018)

Unless he's hired Pondman I'm not sure what to say. 

It's a strange move though, granted Chappers has given himself a sig on his own sig line, which isn't necessarily insane, but to promote yourself from guitar designer to boutique builder.... I mean, I'm sure they've got someone legit doing their work (haven't watched the videos), but you've got Daemoness and Waghorn there (among many others). Them's the big leagues. 
Hope it goes well for them. Rob and the Captain have handled their fair share of very expensive guitars, I'd hope they know what they're looking for. Convincing other people that they do is a whole other thing though.


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## Hollowway (Jan 27, 2018)

feraledge said:


> Unless he's hired Pondman ...



Don't tease me like that.


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## Zado (Jan 27, 2018)

I just love some of the comments in the Chapman forum. Guess at least a couple of these UK models will be purchased


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## Arkon (Jan 27, 2018)

I was very excited when I first saw the 7 strings, but when I saw the price my excitement was almost stifled.
The 7 strings cost like a Keith Merrow 7 mkI.


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## possumkiller (Jan 27, 2018)

So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?


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## zarg (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?



I think the price seems alright, I just think its a market with not a lot of demand in the first place and there's a lot of established builders already


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?


which is why people are skeptical and seeing who he partners with and who is going to make the guitar.

wmi has pedigree and so does prs. 

Actually, now that I think about it a 4k guitar coming out of nowhere is right in this forums pedigree. lol


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## Zado (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?


 Not insane for a guitar that plays and sounds great, which is something we dont know for sure atm. But for me a 4kguitar must also look damn cool to have me spend that kind of money, and the only thing I know for sure about those is that they are so WMI looking I wouldnt distinguish one from a random MIK if both were hangin on the wall (as far as pics are talkin of course).

Imho they lack the "precious touch" look wise, and I m not even talkin about the arguable unpleasant shapes the Chapman guitars have in my book.


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## Frostbite (Jan 27, 2018)

Zado said:


> Not insane for a guitar that plays and sounds great, which is something we dont know for sure atm. But for me a 4kguitar must also look damn cool to have me spend that kind of money, and the only thing I know for sure about those is that they are so WMI looking I wouldnt distinguish one from a random MIK if both were hangin on the wall (as far as pics are talkin of course).
> 
> Imho they lack the "precious touch" look wise, and I m not even talkin about the arguable unpleasant shapes the Chapman guitars have in my book.


What unpleasant shapes are we talking about here. They're generic and don't really do anything different out side of maybe the headstock design


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## SDMFVan (Jan 27, 2018)

Watching that again it sounds like he actually says £3500. So $5000?


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## blacai (Jan 27, 2018)

To me all chapman guitars' finishes look like "cheap stickers". It might be just my mind, but just like with kiesel, it doesn't matter at which one I am looking, they just look cheap and "chinese".


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## Arkon (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?



You've got a point.
Indeed the 7 strings have very good specs. The pickups may not be branded, but that doesn't mean they can't sound almost as good as branded ones. And we're still talking about launch price, vs guitars that were released several years ago.


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## Zado (Jan 27, 2018)

Frostbite said:


> What unpleasant shapes are we talking about here. They're generic and don't really do anything different out side of maybe the headstock design


Mmm right, generic is proly more appropriate, thanks. The headstock is fugly tho.


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## jephjacques (Jan 27, 2018)

Zado said:


> I give em 1 year



First, there were fade finishes.

Now, there are double-fade finishes.

Soon, there will be triple-fade finishes, and the guitars will be entirely black


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## Andromalia (Jan 27, 2018)

I actually like those finishes. Not buying any, but still, I like them. ^^


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## possumkiller (Jan 27, 2018)

Someone should photoshop a pic of misha mansour holding one. Suddenly everyone would be shitting their pants over how amazing and groundbreaking these are lol.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 27, 2018)

It's more the fact that it's all unproven. Like, putting your own brand of pickups in something so expensive is a ballsy move. 

I have zero interest in everything except maybe a 7 string ghost fret, though. Even then, the headstocks are meh at best so you'd have to really tempt me with finishes or other features. I wish him the best, but with the market the way it is, I doubt these high priced fellas will be around for too too long. Get one quick if you want one and show the demand is there. 

On the plus side, if they're making so few of them, if this series flops, it likely won't be the death of the company.


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## Kwert (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?




Thank you. This is exactly what I was thinking.

Chapman wouldn’t be the first high-end brand to use their own pickups (PRS, Gibson, Suhr, probably more...), so I don’t know why this is such a negative point to everyone? We don’t even know what these are going to sound like, but his repeated emphasis on “hand-wound” makes it sound like they’ll be custom-made the for the brand. The guitars are also supposed to be entirely hand-built in a workshop of 3-4 luthiers. 

Consider a Gibson LP Standard is around $3000 (if not more, depending on location) with Gibson branded pickups and hardware, and those aren’t made by two or three people who (I’d hope) would be paying incredibly close attention to the quality of the instruments they’re making.

I'm aware that Chapman doesn't yet have the pedigree that the above mentioned brands do, but does that mean they should undercut themselves on price based on quality? I don't think so.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?


I don't know what crack you've been smoking but no, 1500$ for an indo ibanez is highway robbery. I can buy a really nice MIJ ibby or a WMI schecter for that price and have some cash left over. The fact that they didn't announce the british builders working on the standard series is what gives me serious pause. For all I know they've contracted out with fucking sabre guitars or something.


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## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> So let me get this straight, $900 for an Indo Jackson with zero remarkable features or name brand hardware is fine. $1500 for an Indo Ibanez with name brand pickups and ss frets is fine. $4000 for a factory made PRS is fine. $3500 for a handmade UK guitar is insane?




Alright I'm gonna do this in British pounds as it's where I live and easy for me to Highlight how off their prices are.

£1000 will buy you pretty much any Jackson/Schecter/PRS SE/PRS S2, and most Ibanez here, which will come with name brand hardware or proprietary hardware which has been proven for I.E. Edge trems, stainless frets, neck thrus, in some cases hand wound custom shop pickups(Schecter). If I have £1000 I'm going to be looking in the 1-2K range honestly if I've saved up that much I can wait if theres something a little pricier. He's sat his range in the 1-1.5K range. There is just too much competition to be a smart choice for your money. His guitars don't have incredible neck profiles that are worth the price similar to how a Musicman can lock you to their brand.

For Chapman it gets you a Neck thru 7 with "a real flamed maple top", a no name bridge, Chapman pickups (Which however good let's face it you'll probably swap out for something you already know) that are made in Korea. Stainless frets and hipshot tuners. Not bad, but comparatively for £10 more (change I can find laying around in my house) You can have a KM7 MK1 which comes with all that, plus Hipshot bridge, Duncan pups, Carbon rods down the neck (if that makes a difference to you). Chapman imo puts too much in to the "tonewood" instead of bang for buck which honestly is the game nowadays, like it or not. I do not want to waste my money, higher quality parts for £10 more? I'll take it. I don't really care if Rob puts a "real top" on his guitars, a KM7 MK1 looks just as good (if not better depending on your opinion) and packs more in.

Also imo the indo premium Ibanez are total ripoffs, you can by a Prestige for the same price, less features but any Ibanez I've tried below Prestige has been garbage. And although I talked a lot about specs in the last paragraph I'd rather have an Ibanez with prestige playability than a Premium or lower, less features but not wasting money imo.

$3500 is roughly £2500 give or take the way it fluctuates. He's just entered an entirely new market with very scary competitors. Jackson, Fender, Musicman, Ibanez, PRS, Schecter, Mayones not to mention you're in custom guitar territory you can go for one of the countless builders who will make whatever you want. Again if I've saved up 2.5K I'm not wasting it, your options are literally worldwide at this point as I'd be okay with anything from 2.5 to 3K. You can get pretty much anything aside from a Masterworks from "insert brand".

I'm sure he has some stellar builders given his contacts, but what drags you from anyone else? The pickups will be described in classic Chappers fashion probably I.E. some bull about sonorous unicorns and Viking screams, if they're not what you want you'll have to add extra pups. I'd rather pay another builder that won't put a stupid reverse tele headstock on my guitar.

Maybe other people can justify his lines, but logically I can't make sense of them.

(Also as this is the internet and tone is pretty much impossible to judge I'm not angry or anything just calm discussion on prices )


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 27, 2018)

Here in the US, the pricing for the Pro series stuff is very ugh. 

$1200 for a 7-string Chapman GF7 with cheap Korean hardware/components, or $800 - $900 for a 7-string PRS SE SVN with the same components. 

That, or $1200 for a fully-loaded ESP/LTD, Schecter, Jackson, PRS SE (or even a USA S2) etc etc. 

I dug the guitars when they were $500 - $600 bare-bones Korean-made guitars. Killer guitars you can upgrade to your own specs.


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## iamaom (Jan 27, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> I do not want to waste my money, higher quality parts for £10 more?


But for just £10 less you can tell all your friends you got a guitar from the guy on the computer.


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## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I dug the guitars when they were $500 - $600 bare-bones Korean-made guitars. Killer guitars you can upgrade to your own specs.



They were Competition killers then. They had Hipshot bridges, Hipshot tuners, Set necks, in fact aside from fancy tops and neck thru they were better spec'd then for almost half the price!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 27, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> They were Competition killers then. They had Hipshot bridges, Hipshot tuners, Set necks, in fact aside from fancy tops and neck thru they were better spec'd then for almost half the price!



I was actually talking about the even CHEAPER guitars.  The ML1 and ML2. They had cheap Koren hardware, but were priced accordingly. I think the ML1 was $499 and the ML2 was $650. But the ML2 did have the set neck and fancy tops.


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## Kwert (Jan 27, 2018)

iamaom said:


> But for just £10 less you can tell all your friends you got a guitar from the guy on the computer.



Last I remember, Keith Merrow is also a guy on the computer, and that's also how he got well known...


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## possumkiller (Jan 27, 2018)

No I'm just wondering why people here seem quite happy to overpay for an Indo guitar but say a fair handmade price for a handmade UK guitar is insane. Shapes and colors are subjective (plenty of other successful builders out there selling hideous monstrosities for more and less) but paying for labor in UK isn't going to be cheap. I can also hang a KH2 custom shop and a KH202 made in who knows where on a wall side by side and only knowledgeable guitar people would know the difference so I don't really get that argument either. How much would a Daemoness or Blackmachine cost with those specs? Unless the build quality is as shoddy hit and miss as Kiesel, Gibson, BRJ I don't really see the big deal. Just another builder making generic copies and charging around the going rate.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 27, 2018)

FWIW I think the prices for the premium Ibbys are outrageous as well.  Paying $1500 for a Indo Premium when you can buy a $900- $1000 prestige...


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## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> No I'm just wondering why people here seem quite happy to overpay for an Indo guitar but say a fair handmade price for a handmade UK guitar is insane. Shapes and colors are subjective (plenty of other successful builders out there selling hideous monstrosities for more and less) but paying for labor in UK isn't going to be cheap. I can also hang a KH2 custom shop and a KH202 made in who knows where on a wall side by side and only knowledgeable guitar people would know the difference so I don't really get that argument either. How much would a Daemoness or Blackmachine cost with those specs? Unless the build quality is as shoddy hit and miss as Kiesel, Gibson, BRJ I don't really see the big deal. Just another builder making generic copies and charging around the going rate.



The indo guitar isn't comparable to the UK one though. If I had the money and my options were UK chapman over indo Ibanez I'd take the Chapman. 

The point here is it's UK Chapman vs literally anyone you want. 2.5-3K you could get a Daemoness, you'll wait a long time, but you'll get one.


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## possumkiller (Jan 27, 2018)

Idk I got quite a lot of flak for saying the RGAIX7FM was shit and just a standard Indo Ibanez with a couple name brand parts and a huge ass price hike. I'm not comparing the Indo and UK guitars to each other just the logic behind the hate. I honestly don't see myself getting excited about his guitars but my first reaction was "Good for him" as opposed to "He's out of his mind" which it apparently was supposed to be lol.


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## Andromalia (Jan 28, 2018)

He stated in hi srelease video that they plan to make 30ish a year, it's not like they're funneling all their money to got at it with Jackson.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 28, 2018)

Not sure why folks are hating on the switch to higher end guitars. Is it a money thing?


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 28, 2018)

I think it's just the fact that he started off, and gained his following, doing super budget friendly stuff. That was the gimmick that made his guitars worth it over others. Going high end, while not exactly a bad thing, is a potentially dangerous thing if you're not offering something unique. 

I'm sure the guitars will be of great quality, but why would somebody buy one over another brand? Of course, it's low volume so it's not like there's a ton of commitment, but the market is already over saturated with high end strats and teles. 

I hope for the best, but expect the worst. I also hope I'm wrong because I genuinely like Rob and want nothing but good things for him. His designs don't really do it for me however, so who really cares what I personally have to say since I was never a chapman customer anyway?


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## mpexus (Jan 28, 2018)

He is taking a gamble thats for sure and people seem to be pissed about it... Pretty sure 10 years ago someone was also pissed when he started this whole "Internet" collaboration guitars, look where he is now. All companies start slow and then keep evolving

It seems some are hating the fact its going to be hand made on his country... They dont want Indo or Korean Guitars but then complain that UK made is expensive and there is already lots of Custom Builders out there...(to whom I would probably never give my money and wait 16 months for)

Also a Custom Build looses a lot value on a resale... heck I wouldn't pay 2K for a used Custom Made with the original price of 3.5K. Its wasnt made for me or to my Specs, even if some were identical.


...and No... i wont be buying one, totally out of what Im willing to spend on ANY Guitar.


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## BigBossAF (Jan 28, 2018)

I think it's a good thing to wait and see what they come up with. They've been steadily growing for the past few years, and their line up is actually pretty interesting. Last years pro models only had the Chapman pickups that bothered me (as I don't have any way to test them before hand and there's not to many info on them) and they were quite pricey against something like a PRS SE.

Anyways, things like the Rabea signs are very very interesting and the Standard series might just be the way for them to get more ideas for features to put in the production models, and unless Chap or Lee are crazy out of their minds, they surely will have found a couple of very handful people for building this series, so I'll just wait for NGD's to see how they are coming.


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## Sogradde (Jan 28, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> No I'm just wondering why people here seem quite happy to overpay for an Indo guitar but say a fair handmade price for a handmade UK guitar is insane.


Nobody thinks Ibanez' Premium line are well priced or even good guitars. Except for people who have literally no clue.


possumkiller said:


> Idk I got quite a lot of flak for saying the RGAIX7FM was shit and just a standard Indo Ibanez with a couple name brand parts and a huge ass price hike.


Although that guitar is not a premium, it is exactly what you described and no sane person would debate you on that.

I don't know, maybe this is me becoming one of those "old guys" who remembers the glorious past with rose tinted glasses but I bought a couple of cheapish korean guitars (Ibanez, Schecter..) in my teens and those were amazing for the price I paid. Fast forward last year, I tried a couple Premiums at a local store and they were "meh" at best + some of them had really nasty QC issues. I wonder if this price hike is going to continue indefinitely or if the bubble is going to burst some day. I feel Ibanez is on the right way with the Genesis series, they just need to ditch Premiums and use Iron Label designs in the Prestige series for that sweet Dj0nt fanboy money.


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## possumkiller (Jan 28, 2018)

Honestly for me these days the looks only matter online. I've owned one guitar and played maybe two or three others that had that top notch quality that made it near impossible to put down. Like attention to fret and fretboard detail so clean and precise that the guitar will almost play itself. The kind of guitar that you wake up in the middle of the night to noodle a bit on and daydream about at work (I kept it in the trunk of the car so I could play it on break). It was a custom shop ESP KH4 but the amazing quality had zero to do with the shape or color or wood or pickups or hardware. I can get on with most any neck profile that isn't a baseball bat or a veneer on the back of the fretboard. My attraction to this guitar was based solely on the pure perfection of the fretwork and fretboard. I stupidly sold this guitar thinking I could always get something better. That was 11 years ago and I've been buying and selling guitars ever since then trying to find that kind of perfect playability. I've spent up to $4400 on a guitar and have went through a few custom shop guitars that cost a lot more than the KH4 and were far more fancy and appealing to the eye. Not a single one has been able to match the attention to detail in the fretwork. I've had a far easier time finding "the one" woman and getting remarried and starting a family again than I have trying to find another "the one" guitar. 

I'll probably never be able to play one but if a handmade Chapman ever gave me that same feeling I'd have no problem dropping 3.5k on it. This applies to any brand really. If I played an aborted fetus vomit colored Kiesel with half the body beveled off and it gave me that same feeling I'd have no problem dropping 3.5k on it either.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 28, 2018)

I don't recognise the workshop so its not Daemoness, Carillion, HJ Williams, Feline or Waghorn. People had speculated it was Jaden Rose but he just posted a status update yesterday to clear things up basically saying he sold his workshop but was getting back into building again this year. Pushing out 15+ handmade builds a month would require a lot of staff. 

Its unclear from videos and posts on the actual price but I'm seeing £3500 thrown around, which is a lot and a good bit more than the top UK guys are charging for decked out builds! That said there are some incredible luthiers in the UK so these guitars have serious potential. On the other hand there are also some awful luthiers in the UK so it could go the other way.


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## possumkiller (Jan 28, 2018)

Maybe if the fade was to a darker shade of the same colour (how I thought it was at first) instead of black it would look better. It's a shame to use a nice top like that just to paint 2/3 of it black. 

I also think they need to do some clarification. 15 a month is a lot for a small shop and honestly doesn't seem as limited and exclusive as he's making out. Maybe he means 15 a year? I'd also like to know exactly who is partnered up building these.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 28, 2018)

Those guitar would be 1000% better without the fade. It ruins the top so much.


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## Hollowway (Jan 28, 2018)




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## lewis (Jan 28, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Those guitar would be 1000% better without the fade. It ruins the top so much.


so true ffs.

Looks tacky with the fade on it. Would have looked beautiful without. What a waste.


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## Hollowway (Jan 28, 2018)

Rondo could nail that fade easily. We could all be rocking Agile look-a-likes next year.


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## lewis (Jan 28, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Rondo could nail that fade easily. We could all be rocking Agile look-a-likes next year.


which considering the new Chapman direction of suddenly leaning more towards ££££££$$$$$ guitars, that does NOT look good haha


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## cip 123 (Jan 28, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure why folks are hating on the switch to higher end guitars. Is it a money thing?





Chokey Chicken said:


> I think it's just the fact that he started off, and gained his following, doing super budget friendly stuff. That was the gimmick that made his guitars worth it over others. Going high end, while not exactly a bad thing, is a potentially dangerous thing if you're not offering something unique.



It's a money thing for me, not in the sense that I'm pissed, just not understanding why choosing to go high end when there seems to be a clear problem with his pricing/specs on his current lines. He doesn't offer anything really unique as stated and against his competition all he really has against them is "real tops" and an online following.

I get that he wants to make higher end stuff, but lets compare his Pro series (£1000+) to say, Ola's new line (£700+) They're not the exact same in specs but they're similar. "Hipshot" style bridge, pickups designed for that model, name brand tuners (granted chapman has locking). For pretty much the same price as Chapman you can get Ola's with an Evertune (A unique feature as it's only really ESP offering it as well). In my eyes he's strayed totally from his original Chapman ethos which would be fine but to me it feels like you're paying a lot and not getting much more if anything than if you take your money to someone else, no? 

He used to say with his £4-500 models "We've packed a lot of good construction in to this and it's something you guys can build on with your own pickups/bridges etc"...Why should I do it now at the £1000 line he's flogging?

Feel free to debate me on this, as @possumkiller has also stated it's a feel thing, who knows maybe I could try one of his lines no matter the price and be blown away, but as yet I don't hear anyone going "These are the best guitars you can buy ever!"



Lorcan Ward said:


> I don't recognise the workshop so its not Daemoness, Carillion, HJ Williams, Feline or Waghorn.
> I'm sure the guitars will be of great quality, but why would somebody buy one over another brand?



He's been really good friends with Patrick James Eggle for a good while, perhaps?


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## cardinal (Jan 28, 2018)

1) a guitar is more than specs. I’m not real familiar with these guitars, but things like more attention to the fretwork, neck carve, and better selections of wood (for weight, grain, and matching) can be worth more to me than name-brand pickups or hardware. 

Not sure if that’s the case here. 

2) The custom shop idea isn’t so weird. Not many really have experience with things like actual Schecters or ESPs, so example. People see the Diamond Series and LTDs, but the custom shops exist and can draw people in. Even if they don’t sell many, they can make show pieces to just generate interest in the imports.


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## cip 123 (Jan 28, 2018)

I get that woods and fretwork are import however, his guitars are built in the same factories as other reputable brands. The WMI Korea and Indo factories. Same companies he's in competition with. His ethos used to be "Good woods, good quality, that you can build on with your own pickups etc" now you're paying a lot more for good woods etc, but you still might have to do your own stuff to it.

Also I know Andertons setup most guitars they get, I buy from there, and most good shops should setup guitars imo. So lets say both Chapman and the competition are setup well and play well (which isn't too hard to believe if you buy from a good shop)...What have they got? I've seen PRS SE's that looked like custom shops till I saw the headstock (Can't remember which user here has a stunning one)

Gonna have to take a trip to Andertons sometime to try these out I guess...


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## possumkiller (Jan 28, 2018)

Where is Andertons located?


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## GnarlyVomit (Jan 28, 2018)

Here's the thing. People have been constantly asking Chapman to make guitars in Britain. I see it all the time on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. There's definitely a section of his audience that is interested in this. 

While $3500 dollars is a lot of money, compared to the shitty quality that is Gibson who are charging even more for a mass produced LP standard, with their own pickups, their own crappy robot tuners, not even a locking TOM bridge. So if Chapman can do guitars made in the UK for $3500 with a team of 3-4 people, to Gibson's hundreds of employees for the same price. I think they're probably in a good spot.


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## cip 123 (Jan 28, 2018)

possumkiller said:


> Where is Andertons located?



Guildford, just outside London, UK.


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## possumkiller (Jan 28, 2018)

Nice I will have to visit next time I come back to the UK. I used to live in Weston Super Mare just a few miles down the road from Dylan's Daemoness shop and never knew it. I was also straight across the (Bristol) channel from Cranes and never got to visit. There are so many badass guitar brands I could've tried out back then if I'd only known they existed lol. I spent two months in my wife's hometown of Gdansk Poland and never visited Mayones or Skervesen either. Hopefully this summer I'll have the chance again.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 28, 2018)

GnarlyVomit said:


> Here's the thing. People have been constantly asking Chapman to make guitars in Britain. I see it all the time on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. There's definitely a section of his audience that is interested in this.
> 
> While $3500 dollars is a lot of money, compared to the shitty quality that is Gibson who are charging even more for a mass produced LP standard, with their own pickups, their own crappy robot tuners, not even a locking TOM bridge. So if Chapman can do guitars made in the UK for $3500 with a team of 3-4 people, to Gibson's hundreds of employees for the same price. I think they're probably in a good spot.




You're forgetting the fact that Gibson is circling the drain hardcore, so they're not in the greatest of places. And they have decades worth of fanboys. Not the best company to compare them to. 

I do think them working with such small numbers will work in their favor. Fewer hands, fewer cracks to slip through. I just hope they don't take on too much work too quickly and burn out/fall apart.


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## Hollowway (Jan 29, 2018)

Largely, the reason people have a difficult time with this is that brands don't easily debut a higher end model. They typically have to start a completely different company to do it. But, the opposite is not the case. In other words, if you're Nordstrom, you're high end. And you can make a Nordstrom Rack, and have the cache of the name, but make it affordable for the lower end market. But, Target, who has a low end value brand, could not come out with a high end line of $150 jeans. Auto companies that made their start with a low end value brand, like Honda or Toyota, don't suddenly come out with more expensive cars. They rebrand completely as something else. (Acura and Lexus, for instance.) So, when you have an expensive boutique company, like Ormsby, you can come out with a lower end line, and everyone cheers. But if you're a lower end line, and try going the opposite direction, it generally doesn't work. So note that people get pissed if Chapman sells his WMI made guitars for $1500. But people think they're getting a deal if they buy an WMI made Ormsby. There may be different factors, in terms of QC, design, etc. But a lot of it is just the psychology. (And, of course, that ugly-ass fade.)


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## Seybsnilksz (Mar 25, 2018)

Hold on, didn't all Chapman guitars use to have the truss rod at the body? What happened?


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 25, 2018)

Rob Chapman must be smoking crack with this venture - I'm sure there will be a few fanbois who will buy a couple of these £3500 guitars but I don't see this top line lasting. I'm in the UK so I'd get a comparatively good deal with not having to pay import taxes that will hit buyers outside the UK and EU and no exchange rate to add additional cost.

Looking at the potential price of these, I can't help but wonder why you wouldn't commission a custom, sure you'll wait longer but for the costs involved you'd be mad not to. Sadly these designs look like mid-level Asian stuff, just generic designs with no standout features, no real unique selling point or reason to buy them. I'm sure whoever builds them will do a good job on the fretwork and set them up well, but so will anyone else offering guitars at half the price.

The finishes look horrible too. I know Chapman bangs on about quality woods, and to be fair I've seen some shockers on expensive guitars (some of the paper-thin tops I've seen on Mayones priced above £3000 have been laughably bad) but that he's blacked out half of the top there with thick black finish, like cheaper brands do with burst finishes when they have a crappy piece of wood, put the nice bit in the middle and paint the edges out to hide it. A proper custom in that price range would get you a thick slab of some really nicely figured wood. These Chapmans have the look of a £1000 LTD, so the extra £2500 doesn't seem to get you anything other than the warm feeling of knowing the fretwork is decent.

I used to really support the idea of the Chapman brand. When they started it off, it was to make cheap guitars with good woods and you could upgrade the parts yourself, and for what they cost at the time they were good value and a fairly unique concept. That didn't seem to last all that long as soon as someone at WMI started offering fancy finishes and they got carried away with the aesthetics and the prices just started to climb and climb, but from the models I've played the build quality doesn't seem to have improved over when they started out and cost 1/3 of what they do now. I've never understood the "Captain" signature model too. The guy is a music shop owner that refers to himself as "The Captain", which is a bit of egomania in itself, but to make yourself a signature in your own brand when you've created virtually no musical output other than playing a few pentatonic scales in guitar review videos seems a bit weird.

Rob seems like a decent guy (although his "shredding" ruins any Andertons review he gets into, I'd much rather hear Rabea demo the products), I'd like to see a British brand do well but I'm not sure what the long-term strategy is here. Maybe cheap workhorses didn't make enough money to be worth carrying on with.


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## Andromalia (Mar 26, 2018)

3500£ is Amfisound territory. They'd better be *good*.


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## feraledge (Apr 3, 2018)

GC just sent out a email saying that they are carrying Chapman now. Increases the chances slightly that I might get to try one in person. If GC sticks around at all that is.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 3, 2018)

feraledge said:


> GC just sent out a email saying that they are carrying Chapman now. Increases the chances slightly that I might get to try one in person. If GC sticks around at all that is.


their low end stuff is pretty good for the price, comparable to pretty much anything coming out of WMI that sells at similar price points.


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## ZombieLloyd (Apr 3, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> their low end stuff is pretty good for the price, comparable to pretty much anything coming out of WMI that sells at similar price points.



I have to agree about the lower end model. I bought one of the honey ML-3s for my brother for christmas, it's a good guitar, barring a tiny part of the last fret being unpolished. I almost got one for myself, but my Washburn Solar was too good of a deal for me to pass up.


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## spudmunkey (Apr 3, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> But, Target, who has a low end value brand, could not come out with a high end line of $150 jeans. Auto companies that made their start with a low end value brand, like Honda or Toyota, don't suddenly come out with more expensive cars. They rebrand completely as something else. (Acura and Lexus, for instance.)



Unless you're someone like VW who comes out with the most delusional automotive product in a generation, the Pheaton. A base MSRP of $94,600 for the version with the W12 engine...for something that shared a badge with this:





Hyundai seemed to learn real quick that if they expected to sell anything higher end than the Genesis, that it couldn't be seen as a Hyundai; hence the Genesis brand. That said, i'm not sure how well that's going for them anyway....and then they had the cajones to launch the K900, a $50,000+ Kia. Yeah, I don't see that ending well...


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 3, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Unless you're someone like VW who comes out with the most delusional automotive product in a generation, the Pheaton. A base MSRP of $94,600 for the version with the W12 engine...for something that shared a badge with this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I just don't know why they thought people would blow 40-60k on a hyundai in america, they don't have that kind of cultural cache here.


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