# How do you tap on scalloped neck or big frets?



## silentrage (Dec 1, 2008)

So I played my friend's guitar with the top 4 frets scalloped the other day and it was pretty nice. I'm thinking of getting either that or one with really big frets like on the RC7. But then it occurred to me, how do you tap on a guitar like that? 
Do you have to push the string down onto the fretboard or tap onto the fret wire or what?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 1, 2008)

No idea, but you raised a good question. I want to find out as well, so BUMP!


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## Curt-Platt (Dec 1, 2008)

when you tap the string is only producing the note from the fret that its pressed against not the actual fret board so this shouldnt be a problem should it?


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## Brendan G (Dec 1, 2008)

Curt-Platt said:


> when you tap the string is only producing the note from the fret that its pressed against not the actual fret board so this shouldnt be a problem should it?


I couldn't imagine it being a problem, however it will be extraordinarily difficult to tap in tune.


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## Stitch (Dec 1, 2008)

Jesus, how hard are you guys pressing strings to the fretboard?

The whole point between scalloped board (i believe) was almost as a training tool. Becase you can't press the string all the way to the wood you stop trying to and it teaches you to gauge on whether a note is fretted properly in a different way, wasting less energy on pressing down on the string and you are able to play faster with less fatigue.

I've never actually played a scalloped board but I'd love to.


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## Demeyes (Dec 1, 2008)

I can't see it as being an issue. It's just fretting using your other hand. My next guitar is going to have a cusom neck thats going to be scalloped from 19 up to 24.


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## Brendan G (Dec 1, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Jesus, how hard are you guys pressing strings to the fretboard?


I played bass first, so when I started playing the guhly man guitar I pressed the strings against the fretboard rather hard.


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## TonalArchitect (Dec 1, 2008)

I thought that tyhe purpose of a scallopedf fretboard was for better control of vibrato. At least that's what the Yng says.

Anyway, look at this way. You don't tap straight down, but slightly to the side, right? I mean even if it's _really _slightly.

Also, tapping is, more or less, just legato with your picking hand, so if hammer-ons and pull-offs are possible, so should tapping be.


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## silentrage (Dec 1, 2008)

TonalArchitect said:


> I thought that tyhe purpose of a scallopedf fretboard was for better control of vibrato. At least that's what the Yng says.
> 
> Anyway, look at this way. You don't tap straight down, but slightly to the side, right? I mean even if it's _really _slightly.
> 
> Also, tapping is, more or less, just legato with your picking hand, so if hammer-ons and pull-offs are possible, so should tapping be.



Oh right I forgot about legato.

So when you legato/tap on a scalloped neck you just hit it hard enough to produce a note from the string hitting the fret wire? That will likely make the note sharp wouldn't it?

If you tap on the fret wire I'm pretty sure you get an artificial harmonic.

Can we get some more response from people who play on necks like that?


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## Harry (Dec 1, 2008)

It just feels the same to me when I tap on a scalloped fretboard.
The frets on a Rusty Cooley model are Dunlop 6000s if I'm not mistaken.
The size below that is 6100s, and most guitars that come with "jumbo frets" use a size only marginally smaller than that for their 'jumbo' size.
Honestly, you'll just get used to it eventually, and you'll just develop a lighter touch and it will become a normal way for you to play.


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## ILdÐÆMcº³ (Dec 2, 2008)

I when I tap I release slightly to the side, there is a slight pitch shift but not much. The problem is if you miss and your finger goes in between the strings lol... but once you get used to it that shouldn't be a problem.


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## Elysian (Dec 2, 2008)

on my scalloped guitar, i just tap lightly, in the same place i would tap on a non-scalloped guitar...


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## silentrage (Dec 2, 2008)

Elysian said:


> on my scalloped guitar, i just tap lightly, in the same place i would tap on a non-scalloped guitar...



That's what I wanted to hear. 

Thanks to all who contributed!


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## TonalArchitect (Dec 2, 2008)

silentrage said:


> Oh right I forgot about legato.
> 
> So when you legato/tap on a scalloped neck you just hit it hard enough to produce a note from the string hitting the fret wire? That will likely make the note sharp wouldn't it?
> 
> ...




Grab your guitar. Hold it in the playing position. Look down at the strings so that you see the gap between unfretted strings and the fretboard. (This stuff is hard to convey in words, but it shouldn't require any repositioning except maybe a slight tilt of the head.) 

Fret a note.

Keep it fretted and look at it. There should still be a gap. Then press down with all fury. The note will go sharp. 

You are fretting against the fret wire, not the actual board itself, so a scalloped fretboard shouldn't change that. 

The difference, I assume, is that with the back and forth vibrato technique (as opposed to side-to-side 'classical' vibrato), you finger might rub against the fretboard or something. Yngwie talks about getting a better "grip" on the string. But still, I don't think that the string should go right on the wood. I checked this first on my Taylor, which has medium or small frets and then my ESP, whose frets are larger, and this is true in both cases. 

I'm not sure, but I don't think I've been fretting the guitar incorrectly for the last four-and-some-change years. (At least I hope so.)

Anyway, I suppose that the lighter touch thing that everyone but Yngwie talks about is because you have much farther to push down, since on a non-scalloped guitar the wood will get in the way sooner. 

I'm just thinking here

Also, tapping at the fret wire, assuming it's a harmonic node- which varies depending on whether the string is fretted or not- will indeed produce a harmonic, although a slight adjustment of technique is required. 

But for standard tapping, tap _near _the fret wire, as near as possible, just as during standard playing. You fret near the wire, but not on it. 



Hope this helps.


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## stubhead (Dec 5, 2008)

My main six is a scalloped-neck Warmoth I've played for 8 years, and you just use a light touch. It's not even a issue, to me. If you're already playing out of tune on a regular guitar because you press too hard, a scalloped neck is going to be impossible for you, but it won't matter because if you're pressing that hard you can't play fast, play _well_ or get a decent fundamental clean tone anyway. Perhaps a scalloped neck could be a "training tool" - if you forced yourself to use it exclusively, if you played against a recorded drone for a few years etc. - but it'd be best to address the issue of why you're pressing so hard before you buy any more guitars. Pressing hard is a tonal _option_, as is vibrato, but as a default setting it must be exhausting.... probably why NO punk rock guitarists go scalloped?


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## Elysian (Dec 5, 2008)

stubhead said:


> My main six is a scalloped-neck Warmoth I've played for 8 years, and you just use a light touch. It's not even a issue, to me. If you're already playing out of tune on a regular guitar because you press too hard, a scalloped neck is going to be impossible for you, but it won't matter because if you're pressing that hard you can't play fast, play _well_ or get a decent fundamental clean tone anyway. Perhaps a scalloped neck could be a "training tool" - if you forced yourself to use it exclusively, if you played against a recorded drone for a few years etc. - but it'd be best to address the issue of why you're pressing so hard before you buy any more guitars. Pressing hard is a tonal _option_, as is vibrato, but as a default setting it must be exhausting.... probably why NO punk rock guitarists go scalloped?



thats why i was so turned off by scalloped guitars at first, i scalloped one, and i pressed way too hard, always sounded out of tune. i do still prefer a half scallop, because when i'm riffing i'm pressing hard, but i have the upper 12 frets on my V scalloped, and its great.


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## atimoc (Dec 5, 2008)

"Very carefully" - and this time it's no joke  I don't find the technique itself different, you just have to tap lighter or all your notes will be slightly sharp.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Dec 5, 2008)

I played a YJM Strat at a music store and I love scalloped frets, unfortunately it's an expensive option on most guitars so I don't bother. I know I'm going to get a guitar with them some day, but that day is not now


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 6, 2008)

Get thicker strings if you're pressing down too hard.

Every scalloped neck I've played has felt the same as any other, but the sustain on the twenty-third and twenty-fourth frets is greatly improved. I've played a JEM with the four highest frets scalloped, the Yngwie strat, and have scalloped two frets on a Squier as an experiment.


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## Trespass (Dec 7, 2008)

If you think tapping on a scalloped neck is hard, try tapping on a fretless...


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 10, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Jesus, how hard are you guys pressing strings to the fretboard?
> 
> The whole point between scalloped board (i believe) was almost as a training tool. Becase you can't press the string all the way to the wood you stop trying to and it teaches you to gauge on whether a note is fretted properly in a different way, wasting less energy on pressing down on the string and you are able to play faster with less fatigue.
> 
> I've never actually played a scalloped board but I'd love to.



Stitch is onto it. Thats the whole point of scalloped frets...It teaches your hands to dance over the fretboard instead of trudging and stomping.

just pretend the frets aren't scalloped...I dont understand what would stop you from tapping...the string shouldn't collapse into the fret 'cavity'.


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## labornvain (Nov 26, 2014)

This thread is old, but for the record, I thought I'd answer the original question which, if I'm not mistaken, was, "...how do you tap on a guitar [with a scalloped neck] like that?"

The answer is, you don't. Tapping is the process of *slamming* the string into the fret board which sends a shock wave down the string. This shock wave begins the oscillation of the string that plays the note. 

Without a fretboard to slam into, you are just slamming into the fret, which will also create an initial shock wave, but it will be severely weak.

Having a nice, dense, solid fret board to slam the string into, will give you the best shock wave and this the best, or at least the biggest, loudest tone.

The best necks for tapping are the ones that have frets just at the right height so that the two shock waves (one from the string hitting the board and the other from the string hitting the fret) occur simultaneously. 

If the fret is too high above the sound board, when you tap, the string will strike the fret first, and then the fretboard second. This delay will kill the waveform due to phase cancellation. This delay is inevitable, of course, so the game is to minimize it by getting the frets as low as possible before buzzing out.

Also, a nice, hard wood for the fret board helps to get a good "shock wave". Maple is usually pretty good. But, again, it's mostly to do with the fret height. When it's just right, you should get a sort of whipo cracking effect which, in terms of the physics, is a similar process.

As for the size of the fret wire, I've heard people claim that bigger frets are better for tapping. I have not found that to be the case at all. But the kind of tapping I do is of piano on a guitar variety. Not the hammer on variety. Maybe there's a difference in hammering for that. I've never thought about it.

I hope this information will be useful to someone.

Peace
LnV







.


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 26, 2014)

You definitely do not have to be smashing the string against the wood itself to get an amazingly strong tapping sound.
Plenty of great tapping shredders play with large jumbo frets and play and tap so relaxed that they only apply enough force to make the string sound strongly when hitting the fret's crown. 
You can of course tap at different angles and utilize an ever-so-slight circular motion as well.


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## Pablo (Nov 26, 2014)

labornvain said:


> This thread is old, but for the record, I thought I'd answer the original question which, if I'm not mistaken, was, "...how do you tap on a guitar [with a scalloped neck] like that?"
> 
> The answer is, you don't. Tapping is the process of *slamming* the string into the fret board which sends a shock wave down the string. This shock wave begins the oscillation of the string that plays the note.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, your information sounds an awful lot like _personal preference_ to me.

Proper guitar technique involves strings touching frets, not strings (or fingers) touching fretboards - unless we are talking fretless instruments, obviously. 

Not to discredit your observation, but the Chapman Stick (built exclusively for tapping) has possitively HUGE frets. Moreover, guys like Stanley Jordan, Chris Broderick, Brad Gillis, T.J. Helmerich and Steve Vai don't seem to have massive trouble tapping on their guitars with jumbo frets...

My own personal experience, having played scalloped guitars almost exclusively for about 15 years, tells me that I tap on a scalloped neck _exactly_ like I tap on a non-scalloped guitar: I hammer on with my picking hand - no hocus pocus or witchcraft, just the age-old tale of fingers, strings and frets.

Cheers

Eske


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## redstone (Nov 26, 2014)

labornvain said:


> This shock wave begins the oscillation of the string



to end miserably against the fret.


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## labornvain (Nov 26, 2014)

Pablo said:


> Hmmm, your information sounds an awful lot like _personal preference_ to me.
> 
> Proper guitar technique involves strings touching frets, not strings (or fingers) touching fretboards - unless we are talking fretless instruments, obviously.
> 
> Eske




Ah, yes. Shredders. lol. I should have clarified I was referring to tapping without massive amounts of compression.

Yes, using electronic processing, namely massive amounts of distortion and compressing the signal to death, you can tap on a spongecake. But I was referring to physical properties that will allow one to tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic.

I found this thread from Google. I figured I would share my knowledge on the physics of tapping for those wanting to set up their guitar for it. 

I didn't realize this was a "shredder" board. I don't really consider hammer-ons, EVH style, to be tapping. But whatever. That's just semantics.

Yes, for that you can tap on a douche bottle. It doesn't matter. But isn't that pretty boring by now? What happened to originality. I'm 45 and that was the sh.. people were into when I was in high school. lol. Of course, I've never been a fan of pyrotechnics in music. I mean, if you wnat to play a sport, get a friggin jock strap. This is art. And while technique is valuable and necessary, it should only be the means to an end. Not the end itself. 

Which leads me to the real reason I was compelled to respond here. *There's no such thing as "proper" guitar technique*. What a frightening thing to say about an art form.

I once saw Adrian Belew making some pretty great music with the Talking Heads by playing his guitar with a knife and fork.

I can get a groovy sound duct taping an ebow to the guitar and sliding a matchbook cover under the Ebow and then tapping. It sounds like a metalic squeeze drum.

I'm not wild about the word "proper" in general. I mean, what a pompous word. This is not a ladies' tea. But applied to an art form, it is death. It kills originality. 

Innovation is the driver of art. Without it, we would stagnate. And I can assure you, much of the techniques, including tapping, that we take for granted now, were not "proper" when they were pioneered.

Art is rebellion. And when it's not, it's lame.


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## stevexc (Nov 26, 2014)

all of my wat



labornvain said:


> Ah, yes. Shredders. lol. I should have clarified I was referring to tapping without massive amounts of compression.
> 
> Yes, using electronic processing, namely massive amounts of distortion and compressing the signal to death, you can tap on a spongecake. But I was referring to physical properties that will allow one to tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic.



Cool story bro, so why is it I'm able to "tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic" without touching the fretboard? Or why literally every single person who plays Chapman Stick or Warr Guitar, both equipped with jumbo frets, is able to "tap, piano style"?



> I found this thread from Google. I figured I would share my knowledge on the physics of tapping for those wanting to set up their guitar for it.
> 
> I didn't realize this was a "shredder" board. I don't really consider hammer-ons, EVH style, to be tapping. But whatever. That's just semantics.



Again, that's cool, but they ARE examples of tapping. As in they perfectly fit the definition of tapping. So what you're saying is your extremely narrow view of what tapping is can't be done on anything you can't touch the fretboard?



> Yes, for that you can tap on a douche bottle. It doesn't matter. But isn't that pretty boring by now? What happened to originality. I'm 45 and that was the sh.. people were into when I was in high school. lol. Of course, I've never been a fan of pyrotechnics in music. I mean, if you wnat to play a sport, get a friggin jock strap. This is art. And while technique is valuable and necessary, it should only be the means to an end. Not the end itself.
> 
> Which leads me to the real reason I was compelled to respond here. *There's no such thing as "proper" guitar technique*. What a frightening thing to say about an art form.



Wait, WHAT? Let me repeat that for psoterity:



> *There's no such thing as "proper" guitar technique*



How can you say that AND start a post with this:



> The answer is, you don't. [specific directions on how to allegedly tap here]



It's one or the other. You can't eat your cake and keep it, too. Either there IS or there ISN'T a proper way to do things.



> I once saw Adrian Belew making some pretty great music with the Talking Heads by playing his guitar with a knife and fork.
> 
> I can get a groovy sound duct taping an ebow to the guitar and sliding a matchbook cover under the Ebow and then tapping. It sounds like a metalic squeeze drum.
> 
> ...



In that case, I'll rebel against what you're saying so as not to be lame.


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## redstone (Nov 26, 2014)

labornvain said:


> And while technique is valuable and necessary, it should only be the means to an end. Not the end itself.
> 
> Which leads me to the real reason I was compelled to respond here. *There's no such thing as "proper" guitar technique*. What a frightening thing to say about an art form.



You're contradicting yourself. 

There's no proper technique until an objective is determined. You said it, if guitar techniques are the means to an art, then it is not the art itself. Once you determine your art, you can determine the proper means.

For example, the more you increase the phrasing speed the more you limitate the proper combinations of movements due to physical limitations in gesture frequencies and amplitude. Let's be more specific, sweep picking allows faster consecutive string changing than alternate picking, alt pick being limited to gesture cycle*2, but 50% slower consecutive string skipping (gest cycle*1 vs gest cycle*2).

There's no "there's no better technique".


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## labornvain (Nov 27, 2014)

stevexc said:


> all of my wat
> 
> 
> 
> Cool story bro, so why is it I'm able to "tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic" without touching the fretboard?



lol. Yeah man. Sure you can. The resident troll. Every board has one.


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## Hollowway (Nov 27, 2014)

labornvain said:


> Ah, yes. Shredders. lol. I should have clarified I was referring to tapping without massive amounts of compression.
> 
> Yes, using electronic processing, namely massive amounts of distortion and compressing the signal to death, you can tap on a spongecake. But I was referring to physical properties that will allow one to tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic.
> 
> ...



So wait, you're saying there is no "proper" technique, and that this is an art form, etc., but at the same time saying that everyone is doing it wrong and that we should be bored with it by now, etc., etc? You sound pretty pompous. Sounds like you're the troll. If you don't like compression, fine, but it's hardly boring and outdated. If anything is outdated it's being condescending to others who have the exact same hobby as you. You seem to be the troll on here. You want to impress us? Put a video or link showing your music.


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## yingmin (Nov 27, 2014)

labornvain has a bright future on these boards.



labornvain said:


> lol. Yeah man. Sure you can. The resident troll. Every board has one.



Also, just so I'm clear, you bump a 6-year-old thread to tell us we're all wrong based on your questionable understanding of...as far as I can tell, everything...and you're calling him the troll?


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## Pablo (Nov 27, 2014)

labornvain said:


> Ah, yes. Shredders. lol. I should have clarified I was referring to tapping without massive amounts of compression.
> 
> Yes, using electronic processing, namely massive amounts of distortion and compressing the signal to death, you can tap on a spongecake. But I was referring to physical properties that will allow one to tap, piano style, on any guitar, even an acoustic.
> 
> ...


You are quite the arrogant prick, aren't you? If you are purely interested in making noises, you are absolutely right, there is no such thing as proper technique, and even your guitar becomes an optional extra. However, this thread is about _playing music on the guitar using tapping_, hence, using knives and forks or beating your guitar with a hammer, is hardly relevant. Moreover, when you introduce nonesense such as _"slamming your string into the fretboard to generate oscilation"_, correcting your technique sounds pretty much like a logical adjustment to avoid stress related injuries whilst facilitating the creation of music and possibly even art... but then again, I'm only 38, so what do I know.

When mentioning Belew and his fun and games with David Byrne, you might also be aware of two of his playmates from the Double Trio incarnation of King Crimson. Are Trey Gunn and Tony Levin not performing art on their Warr and Stick, respectively, or are they (like Stanley Jordan, apparently) just shredders performing pyrotechnical EVH-style hammer-ons?

Keep in mind that stupidity _isn't_ rebellion, it's just stupid...

Cheers

Eske


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## Winspear (Nov 27, 2014)

Yeah, excessive force is certainly not needed for solid tapping. At least, the force ideally should stop as soon as the string hits the fret, in my mind. I find bigger frets thus no fretboard contact consistently better for tapping.


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