# What's your favourite scale/tonalities?



## vontetzianos (May 4, 2009)

Which scales do you find yourself particularly partial to? Do you prefer lots of dissonance like augmented scales, or do you use more consanant tones. Pentatonics, modal tonalities etc.? Or do you prefer more uncommon scales or a mixture of many?

When I improvise, I always love the Indian pentatonic minor; basically and pentatonic minor with a major third.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 4, 2009)

I prefer symmetric scales to acheive augmented and diminished sonorities, but I find that chords are more flexible. I try to think of things intervallically when I write: if I want something joyous, I'll suggest a major arpeggio, or minor for something sad, or diminished for something tense. It's all about what you're trying to communicate.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 4, 2009)

I use a lot of phrygian, locrian, diminished and whole tone, along with atonal chromatics.


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## Cadavuh (May 4, 2009)

major 7th, add 9, suspended chords/arps, dorian, lydian. i make up a lot of chords that are along the lines of the ones i mentioned as well. ill just stack intervals on top of eachother. i write solos and improv using just the standard modes but ill throw in crazy, less atonal holdsworth/fuison-esque things that are really fluid and seamless so it makes it sound pretty cool


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## Scar Symmetry (May 4, 2009)

All_¥our_Bass;1491992 said:


> I use a lot of phrygian, locrian, diminished and whole tone, along with atonal chromatics.



^^this.

also, lydian, hungarian gypsy, minor gypsy, spanish gypsy, augmented, harmonic minor.


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## vontetzianos (May 4, 2009)

I also love phrygian domninant and lydian dominant.


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## ShadyDavey (May 4, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> I prefer symmetric scales to acheive augmented and diminished sonorities, but I find that chords are more flexible. I try to think of things intervallically when I write: if I want something joyous, I'll suggest a major arpeggio, or minor for something sad, or diminished for something tense. It's all about what you're trying to communicate.



This - they have specific tonalities so I just pick whatever combination of scale/arpeggio that I happen to need for the job. What I like is to try to think about the intervals and actual notes I'm playing as related to the chord I'm playing over rather than specifically use a certain scale and play more modally.

I think the best way to get locked into a rut is to have specific scales you fall back on - try experimenting and using your ears rather than your fingers


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## liquidcow (May 4, 2009)

I use Phrygian Dominant a fair amount, and the diminished scale quite a bit also, although I often write a riff then sort out which key it's in rather than the other way around.

What I generally like to hear is something that sounds a bit different though, so in that respect I don't have a favourite key or anything, it's going to change regularly.


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## telecaster90 (May 4, 2009)

Honestly, I just kinda tool around arpeggios  I use pentatonics too but most of my playing is arpeggios with added and altered 9's, 11's, and 13's


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## Ckackley (May 4, 2009)

Minor pentatonic here . At least as a rough framework, then as ShadyDavey said let your ears do the rest. Know the rules enough to be able to break 'em. When approaching a lead line in particular I'll try the all encompassing mode approach but usually get better results by breaking it down by chord and shifting my positions with each chord change. It forces you to move around the fretboard rather than sit in a "box". Not to rag on highly technical players but modes, to me anyway, were always a way to make you explain what you're doing and sound intellectual. Take any selection of notes and you'll find a mode that explains them. Hell, there's a middle eastern mode based on half steps that sounds completely horrible to western ears, but it's as valid a mode as any. In the end , whatever works . 
Take this all with a grain of salt coming from me though. I'm just a blues based metal guy in the Hammett, Wylde vein. I'd rather strangle, bend, and make a note scream than play an arpeggio.


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## ShadyDavey (May 4, 2009)

Thing is, I absolutley love the versatility of pentatonics and their ability to be used in nearly any situation (especially when you look at the Chinese/Japanese scales, penatonic dominant etc) so I do like them as a rough framework - playing outside of them to really bring out tonalities is quite fun


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## vontetzianos (May 4, 2009)

^That's what guys like Eric Johnson do but like on another level that I can't comprehend. I get really bored with regular pentatonic minor, so adding additional tonalities to it is a necessity for me.


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## Ckackley (May 4, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Thing is, I absolutley love the versatility of pentatonics and their ability to be used on nearly any situation (especially when you look at the Chinese/Japanese scales, penatonic dominant etc) so I do like them as a rough framework - playing outside of them to really bring out tonalities is quite fun



Zakk Wylde said in a Guitar World interview once- "I spent a large part of my life learning every scale and mode out there. I always go back to the pentatonic. It just works." 

And, as you said, pulling in notes that aren't standard to the scale is fun. It draws attention and makes people kind of perk up an ear and listen closer.


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## ShadyDavey (May 4, 2009)

Well, in any key you can build 3 minor pentatonics straight off the bat (In C, thats D, E, and A which is clearly all the minor modes) before even looking at other uses over the other 6 chord categories that players like Scott Henderson or Frank Gambale use (Minor pentatonic up a 5th over a min7 chord, or up a m3 over a dominant 7 chord) ....and all the cool ways of playing them that Derryl and Rusty use.....thats a lot of mileage from essentially one scale type.


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## Bound (May 4, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> ^^this.
> 
> also, lydian, hungarian gypsy, minor gypsy, spanish gypsy, augmented, harmonic minor.



spanish gypsy is sexy...

I like that, mixo, aeolian, enigmatic minor, harmonic min, sometimes neopolitan and hirijoshi. I noodle in pentatonics of course.


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## Harry (May 5, 2009)

I love Lydian and harmonic minor, but ultimately I always come back to Aeolian and Ionian for a lot of things.


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## Cadavuh (May 5, 2009)

Making your own scales is pretty cool too!


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## ShadyDavey (May 5, 2009)

Spanish Gypsy = 5th mode of the harmonic minor - Phrygian Dominant (1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, b7) 
Minor Gypsy = 1, 2, b3, #4, 5, 6, 7 (Aeolian with a #4) 
Hungarian Gypsy 1,2, b3, #4, 5, b6, 7 (Harmonic minor with a #4) 

If folks were wondering - some nice interesting sounds in there


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## SevenDeadly (May 5, 2009)

Cadavuh said:


> Making your own scales is pretty cool too!



brief but poignant. I make my own mode combis, usually focusing structure on an ascending scale like japanese whole tone scales then using 3rds and 5ths to move on to minor and diminished arpeggios.


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## ShadyDavey (May 5, 2009)

SevenDeadly said:


> japanese whole tone scales



I know the whole tone, and I'm familiar with the Japanese pentatonics so please, enlighten me as to these variations!


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (May 5, 2009)

```
|----------------
|----------------
|--------------4-5-
|------2-3-5-6-----
|-3-4------------
|----------------
```

no idea wtv it's called, I just use it.

Whole tone is fun too! Harmonic Minor modes are yummy also


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 5, 2009)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> ```
> |----------------
> |----------------
> |--------------4-5-
> ...



Phrygian dominant #7 (phrygian major 7?). Here's a movable shape for ya:

e-5-6-9
b-5-6-9
G-6-7
D-6-7-8
A-5-7-8
E-5-6-9

Edit: just realized this is a mode of Hungarian gypsy minor (harmonic minor #4).


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## Alex-D33 (May 5, 2009)

Melodic Major / Minor .... Maybe a bit of whole tone and Diminished.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 5, 2009)

What's melodic major?


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 5, 2009)

I'm not sure what I like


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## Alex-D33 (May 5, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> What's melodic major?



There you go 

The melodic minor scale 
The melodic minor scale is represented numerically (relative to the major scale):

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Notes 

i ii III+ IV V vi0 vii0 Chords 

So if the tonic is c, the notes and chords of this scale are:

c d e f g a b Hear these notes 

c d E+ F G a0 b0 Hear these chords 

There are semitones (minor seconds) between the 2nd and 3rd degrees and between the 7th and 8th degrees, and wholetones (major seconds) between all the other adjacent degrees. Using this formula the melodic minor scale can be built on any note.

The scale is most frequently encountered as a temporary substitution for the harmonic minor scale in order to smooth the melodic line from the sixth to the seventh degree without disturbing the tonic function on i.

In common practice classical it is rarely used in isolation for any extended period of time. This is largely because its tonic is not so effective as that of the harmonic minor scale. Repeated use of ii or IV in a minor mode tend to make the tonic sound like a slightly artificial alteration of a major tonic.

The melodic major scale 
The melodic major scale is spelled (relative to the major scale):

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Notes 

I ii0 iii0 iv v VI+ VII Chords 

If c is our tonic then the notes and chords in this scale are:

c d e f g a b Hear these notes 

C d0 e0 f g A+ B Hear these chords 

It is so named because it is a mirror of the (ascending) melodic minor scale. In the melodic minor scale the 6th and 7th degrees of the diatonic aeolian mode are sharpened, in the melodic major scale the 6th and 7th degrees of the diatonic major scale are flattened.

What a strange, wonderful and under-used scale this is ! It has a very usable (if a little unstable) tonic function on I. To me it evokes Eastern European folk melodies, with its yearning flattened sixth and its mellow and relaxed flattened seventh degree, but it has been mostly ignored by classical composers.

Perhaps this is a reflection of the incorrect theoretical belief that the dominant (V) chord has to be major, for the I (i) to have any tonic function. But the melodic major scale proves this to be nothing more than dogma. In this scale the leading tone is not the 7 (which resolves to 1), but the 6 which resolves to fifth of the tonic triad. This leading tone is found in the subdominant (iv), so here the subdominant takes on the role that is usually taken on by the dominant in the major and minor scales. Certainly, alternating between v and I will displace the tonicity of the latter triad, but providing that iv is interposed between them, the minor dominant is fairly safe.

The piece of music below is set entirely within the scale of g melodic major.

It's chord progression is: 

I x 9 | VII | iv | I |
I x 9 | VII | ii0 | v | iv | I | - |
I | - | ii0 | - | I | - | VII | - |
I | - | iv | v | VII | v | I | - |
I x 9 | VII | iv | I | - | ii0 (over 1) | - | I | - |

G x 9 | F | c | G |
G x 9 | F | a0 | d | c | G | - |
G | - | a0 | - | G | - | F | - |
G | - | c | d | F | d | G | - |
G x 9 | F | c | G | - | a0 (over g)| - | G | -


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## I_infect (May 5, 2009)

Ckackley said:


> Know the rules enough to be able to break 'em.
> 
> Take this all with a grain of salt coming from me though. I'm just a blues based metal guy in the Hammett, Wylde vein. I'd rather strangle, bend, and make a note scream than play an arpeggio.



Best advice I've heard anyone give.

I'm partial to harmonic minor and pentatonics myself, and pretty much come from the same school as you- Bluesy with a wild vibrato.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 5, 2009)

I frequently use flatted sixth and seventh degrees in major tonalities, but didn't know that there was a name or record of consistent usage for it. The sonority is very pleasing. I find that the iiº, iv, and VII chords are best derived from your 'melodic major', but I hadn't explored the possibilities of functions around the v chord. Thanks a bunch, Alex.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 5, 2009)

I don't really think about what kind of tonality I'm using while I'm playing, but I tend towards the dark, the dissonant, and the bizarre.


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## ShadyDavey (May 6, 2009)

Awesome, I didn't know there was a Melodic Major either - thanks for that


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## vontetzianos (May 6, 2009)

Harmonic Major is also wonderful to work with.


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## ShadyDavey (May 6, 2009)

vontetzianos said:


> Harmonic Major is also wonderful to work with.


 

I understand that Berklee have added that to their required learning list recently - its sadly one of the scales I never played around with back in the day but its on the list to recieve a cursory glance if I start again.


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## Maniacal (May 6, 2009)

I am all about the melodic minor.


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## vontetzianos (May 6, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> I understand that Berklee have added that to their required learning list recently - its sadly one of the scales I never played around with back in the day but its on the list to recieve a cursory glance if I start again.


 
There's a pretty cool lesson on harmonic major in guitar techniques by Shaun Baxter I could post if anyone would like.


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## ShadyDavey (May 6, 2009)

That would be cool - Shaun knows his stuff for sure (the grumpy welsh git )!


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## vontetzianos (May 6, 2009)

Here's the lesson. I really dig the jam Baxter uses on the last page. Those first two bars are TASTY


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## ShadyDavey (May 6, 2009)

Yay, thanks man 

As an aside - Shaun is a monster player who's sadly underated. I hope he gets some critical recongnition very soon.


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## vontetzianos (May 6, 2009)

His column is pretty much the only reason I read Guitar Techniques. He's a really awesome player and packs some seriously cool stuff in his lessons.


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## ShadyDavey (May 6, 2009)

Yeah, he really is. At some point he should release all his columns and articles as a book - even the earlier articles had mind-blowing chops and musical ideas in.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 9, 2009)

Mixolydian with a flat 6 is really fun to play with.


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## HammerAndSickle (May 9, 2009)

Haha, the same scale has been mentioned four or so times by different names here 

We all seem to love our melodic major. For some that's what it's called, others call it mixolydian b6, others call it Aeolian Dominant, Spanish Phrygian #2... it all boils down to 1 2 3 4 5 b6 b7, right?

I tend to solo mostly in phrygian, phrygian dominant, minor, harmonic minor, and locrian/diminished 7ths. Sometimes it's a mix of those. My more composed solos actually tend to have more chromaticism, so a run that starts out phrygian dominant might end up harmonic minor, making some scale that's technically double harmonic. But that's only really due to what I play: mostly melodic metal. So outside of these contexts I haven't had much of a chance to explore tonalities.

I love lydian, though. I spend so much time just playing around with moving pedal tones and creating lydian/ lydian dominant relationships over top of them. I've tried so hard to make it work in a metal context but I can't XD


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## Excalibur (May 9, 2009)

The one that fits.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 10, 2009)

When I'm going for a bright and happy, but still kind of strange sound, I'll use lydian augmented (aka lydian with a sharpened fifth).


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## oompa (May 12, 2009)

im very interrested in breaking all these kinds of half a millennia old rules, trying to make unusual methods sound good. 

it usually turns into strange stuff like trying to make locrian work over strange chords or weird melodies over fourths or something lol


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