# NGD:BLACKMCAPSLOCK



## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 13, 2014)

Well as many of you know I have wanted a blackmachine for a while . I have had the money multiple times and have been very skeptical of spending so much on something so simple . So I always end up buying something else ..... Well this time I didn't lol . My brother and myself both got b6's ..... I got dez from the safety fire's old one and he got a newer feline one ....My brother and myself have collectively played literally every guitar brand out there and these just slaughter them .... I didn't think I would ever find something that outplays vik but I was wrong this topped it .... I was expecting flaws in it as well but blackmachine quality is better than vik .......
Well here's some pictures ..... The only way this guitar leaves is for a b2 ... Which may be soon .


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## coffeeflush (Feb 13, 2014)

HGND man. 
Not to sound skeptical, more of curious. 

But lot of people tell me these guitars are special. 
And I know I cannot know without playing them. 

But what makes them so special ? If it can be explained.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Feb 13, 2014)

Awesome! Even cooler that yours has a story, being owned by Dez. HNGD!


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## VBCheeseGrater (Feb 13, 2014)

You're right it does look quite simple. Which is really what i prefer. Still really nice though, i'm sure it's a joy to play - congrats!


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## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 13, 2014)

Congrats man!


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## canuck brian (Feb 13, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I was expecting flaws in it as well but blackmachine quality is better than vik .......



Nice lookin fiddle, but take a peek at your tuner alignment.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 13, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> Nice lookin fiddle, but take a peek at your tuner alignment.



Yeah still better than vik .....


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Feb 13, 2014)

Damn that's a lucky pair. Congrats!


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## lewstherin006 (Feb 13, 2014)

Congrats bro! Pretty cool that you own Dez's old guitar!


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## Cloudy (Feb 13, 2014)

Man..this isnt helping my b6 gas.


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## stevexc (Feb 13, 2014)

coffeeflush said:


> HGND man.
> Not to sound skeptical, more of curious.
> 
> But lot of people tell me these guitars are special.
> ...



I'm wondering the same, personally. Not that I doubt that they're great instruments.

But all in all, it's a slick looking stripped-down metal machine. HNGD!


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## tmfrank (Feb 13, 2014)

stevexc said:


> I'm wondering the same, personally. Not that I doubt that they're great instruments.
> 
> But all in all, it's a slick looking stripped-down metal machine. HNGD!



I hope he doesn't mind, but Francesco Filigoi (who is a member here) wrote a fantastic explanation on this topic!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5864881/blackmachine.pdf#_=_

Every time I want to buy a guitar and skip the Blackmachine wait, I always revisit this page.


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## SDMFVan (Feb 13, 2014)

Congrats, happy NGD!

I've got to admit though, that tuner alignment would drive me insane at the price point these things are at.


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## Possessed (Feb 13, 2014)

The beauty of the wood, huge congrats


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## capoeiraesp (Feb 13, 2014)

HNGD!
Not to be a dick but comparing a bare bones blackmachine to a Vik isn't exactly a fair playing field, such as when comparing something that has lots of different wood binding compared to none at all. Just sayin'. 

Enjoy!


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## ItWillDo (Feb 13, 2014)

coffeeflush said:


> HGND man.
> Not to sound skeptical, more of curious.
> 
> But lot of people tell me these guitars are special.
> ...


Hype and good build quality. 

I honestly do believe they're good guitars and all that, but I could never justify a +10K price tag for a guitar. Aside from that, HNGD!


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 13, 2014)

I didnt pay anywhere near 10k lol its a killer guitar even though it was still alot


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## Chuck (Feb 13, 2014)

Awesome guitar!

But for the love of The Flying Spaghetti Monster will you please stop with the "....."


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## MetalDaze (Feb 13, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> Nice lookin fiddle, but take a peek at your tuner alignment.


 
I've noticed this on a few. I wonder what the official BM response to this would be?


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## mike0 (Feb 13, 2014)

Chuck said:


> Awesome guitar!
> 
> But for the love of The Flying Spaghetti Monster will you please stop with the "....."



someone requires me love?

on topic though, those are fantastic guitars! congrats! i managed to play one a while back, and though it was only for a short time, i enjoyed every second of it thoroughly.


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## jahosy (Feb 13, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I didnt pay anywhere near 10k lol its a killer guitar even though it was still alot



Anywhere near the price of a Vik? Just curious since you were comparing both 

HNGD!


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## molsoncanadian (Feb 13, 2014)

ItWillDo said:


> Hype and good build quality.
> 
> I honestly do believe they're good guitars and all that, but I could never justify a +10K price tag for a guitar. Aside from that, HNGD!


Yup! I have played a blackmachine before, and I couldnt say there was anything special about it. I have played many guitars I would take over a BM personally. I would have to agree with that they are way over hyped imo, and im convinced 90% of the people doing the hyping are people echoing the popular opinions of others, and have never even seen/played one.


But not to detract from OP, "special" guitar or not, that is a nice axe dude!


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 13, 2014)

Oh you fancy, huh?


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## Chasethebreather (Feb 13, 2014)

Jack placement is pretty cool. Still never have gotten to play one of these. Definitely would like to in the near future.


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## TylerEstes (Feb 13, 2014)

Nice Squier, bruh.

I kid, I kid.


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## C-PIG (Feb 13, 2014)

nothing special about B6s , and yes i have played one. nice guitars but over hyped . happy ngd though


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## Metal-Box (Feb 13, 2014)

HNGD and I have no doubt that these are fantastic guitars. I have never played one but I do believe that most of the hype is being generated by a handful of people trying to capitalize on the apparent wait list and limited availability of the guitars in general by hyping the mystique surrounding these guitars. They are trying to turn over there guitars for ridiculous amounts of money. Then, the hype is being echoed by tons of people who have never even seen one, let alone played one.


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## Daf57 (Feb 14, 2014)

Beautiful guitar, man! Big congrats and enjoy that bad boy!!


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## JP Universe (Feb 14, 2014)

.My brother and myself have collectively played literally every guitar brand out there and these just slaughter them .... I didn't think I would ever find something that outplays vik but I was wrong [/QUOTE]

(Writing off phone so a bit scrappy) I'm sorry but I just can't have it.... That message builds up hype and it's bullshit... You really think it would "slaughter" my thorn, kxk, ONI, suhr, prs???? It doesn't and don't even try and build on that hype. Hell my fender ej keeps up with all of the guitars I mentioned but in a different way..... With that outta the way..... massive congrats on the guitar, she's a beaut  !! I'm sure it kills!!! (Serious)


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## constepatdyak (Feb 14, 2014)

Beautiful looking guitar, but I'd have to agree with the others that it's definitely way overhyped. Definitely not worth the legendary status it has become IMO, (no offence meant)


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## Zado (Feb 14, 2014)

Congrats on the purchase,though I honestly have no soft spots for that kind of guitars - they tend to remind me of a parquet with pickups and strings- I bet it plays and sounds ridiculously good!


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## narad (Feb 14, 2014)

JP Universe said:


> (Writing off phone so a bit scrappy) I'm sorry but I just can't have it.... That message builds up hype and it's bullshit... You really think it would "slaughter" my thorn, kxk, ONI, suhr, prs???? It doesn't and don't even try and build on that hype.



You got that far? I had to give up at the phrase "played *literally every guitar brand* out there".


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 14, 2014)

If anyone has trouble playing a BM, Vik or any other hi-end guitar they might want to question their own playing ability first.


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## TemjinStrife (Feb 14, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> Nice lookin fiddle, but take a peek at your tuner alignment.



But, dude, it's HANDMADE. You can't buy that kind of inaccuracy from a CNC. 

/sarcasm


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 14, 2014)

You guys can think what you want .... But I have had multiple private stock prs , a bunch of mayones , played multiple strandberg, played multiple daemoness , owned a vik, owned a oni, played a bunch of suhrs... I have played anything I have interest in for what I like . If your a hard rock player then yeah a Gibson might suit you better . For what I play this is perfect ... So you think think hype whatever you want lol . Half of the people on here haven't even touched a vik or daemoness and praise the .... out of them which is highly annoying .


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## molsoncanadian (Feb 14, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> You guys can think what you want .... But I have had multiple private stock prs , a bunch of mayones , played multiple strandberg, played multiple daemoness , owned a vik, owned a oni, played a bunch of suhrs... I have played anything I have interest in for what I like . If your a hard rock player then yeah a Gibson might suit you better . For what I play this is perfect ... So you think think hype whatever you want lol . Half of the people on here haven't even touched a vik or daemoness and praise the .... out of them which is highly annoying .


 
Don't worry buddy. If you like your guitar all the power to you! I think everyone agrees this is a nice axe. I just don't think you can come in here and say what you did and not expect some backlash.

You have an opinion, however stating that "OMG 900 times better than everything ever, I have played every guitar in the world and this is some alien space craft" certainly opens the flood gates.

End of the day, nice guitar. Happy for you


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## Steinmetzify (Feb 14, 2014)

Never played one, but it's coming. I can feel it. Always wanted to try one, and the hype makes it even more so. I dig the simplicity of these guitars. HNGD man, always nice when you finally get something you've wanted for awhile!


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## Eclipse (Feb 14, 2014)

So cool that you got Dez's old B6! I actually got to see that guitar on tour dude! So it's funny how you own it and I've seen it before in person too! It's like I know you....


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## Zado (Feb 14, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> You guys can think what you want .... But I have had multiple private stock prs , a bunch of mayones , played multiple strandberg, played multiple daemoness , owned a vik, owned a oni, played a bunch of suhrs... I have played anything I have interest in for what I like . If your a hard rock player then yeah a Gibson might suit you better . For what I play this is perfect ... *So you think think hype whatever you want lol . *Half of the people on here haven't even touched a vik or daemoness and praise the .... out of them which is highly annoying .


But there IS a prominent hype around BM,you just can't deny that.Like said there are many guitar players/afecionados talking bout how great Doug works are without having even seen one IRL,and that generates even more hype.This of course does not necessary mean you guitar isn't great or wont work fine for you; as long as you are pleased by playing it,nothing else should matter


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## narad (Feb 14, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> You guys can think what you want .... But I have had multiple private stock prs , a bunch of mayones , played multiple strandberg, played multiple daemoness , owned a vik, owned a oni, played a bunch of suhrs... I have played anything I have interest in for what I like . If your a hard rock player then yeah a Gibson might suit you better . For what I play this is perfect ... So you think think hype whatever you want lol .



Then I'm glad you found the perfect guitar for what you play, and we definitely won't be seeing this guitar listed in the classifieds or on ebay next month for $5k+, right?


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## jahosy (Feb 14, 2014)

narad said:


> we definitely won't be seeing this guitar listed in the classifieds or on ebay next month for $5k+, right?



As already stated at the start of the post. .. If only a B2 becomes available 

As long as it fits the style you're playing that's all good.


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## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 14, 2014)

JP Universe said:


> .My brother and myself have collectively played literally every guitar brand out there and these just slaughter them .... I didn't think I would ever find something that outplays vik but I was wrong



(Writing off phone so a bit scrappy) I'm sorry but I just can't have it.... That message builds up hype and it's bullshit... You really think it would "slaughter" my thorn, kxk, ONI, suhr, prs???? It doesn't and don't even try and build on that hype. Hell my fender ej keeps up with all of the guitars I mentioned but in a different way..... With that outta the way..... massive congrats on the guitar, she's a beaut  !! I'm sure it kills!!! (Serious)[/QUOTE]

Oh man because "personal opinion is so debatable and your guitar sucks compared to mine"

The dude's happy with his guitar and thinks it's better than any of the other guitars he's played (which is a lot), why the need for that? You're perfectly welcome to disagree, but you can't say his opinion is bullshit. THAT'S bullshit.

Grats Jordan.  Upload some soundclips of like, Tennessee bluegrass to piss off people


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 14, 2014)

narad said:


> Then I'm glad you found the perfect guitar for what you play, and we definitely won't be seeing this guitar listed in the classifieds or on ebay next month for $5k+, right?



If I find a blackmachine b2 next month thats not 14k then you sir would be correct.


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## WaffleTheEpic (Feb 14, 2014)

I appreciate the unsigned neg-rep, you guys! Good to know you have the balls to say something over the internet. 

And no, afaik Jordan isn't flipping it - he's keeping it unless a B2 shows up as he's stated MANY times in the post!


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## technomancer (Feb 14, 2014)

WaffleTheEpic said:


> I appreciate the unsigned neg-rep, you guys! Good to know you have the balls to say something over the internet.
> 
> And no, afaik Jordan isn't flipping it - he's keeping it unless a B2 shows up as he's stated MANY times in the post!



1) neg rep isn't supposed to be signed
2) bitching about rep will get you a ban


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## Metal-Box (Feb 14, 2014)




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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 14, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


>


I couldn't agree with you more ....... I am just sharing my thoughts . If you can afford it try it .. If not buy a mayones simple as that ......


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## Hollowway (Feb 14, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I couldn't agree with you more ....... I am just sharing my thoughts . If you can afford it try it .. If not buy a mayones simple as that ......



Neither is in my budget.


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## Necris (Feb 14, 2014)

Congrats on the new guitar, I do wish the mods edited the title to "CAPSMACHINE" instead of Blackmcapslock though.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Feb 14, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Neither is in my budget.



Hahaha, yeah. "Can't afford a Ferrari? No problem man, just buy a Maserati!"


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 14, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Neither is in my budget.


Whats your budget ?? Haha


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## Hollowway (Feb 14, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Whats your budget ?? Haha



Good question. Unfortunately I have an history which shows an inverse relationship between what I spend on a guitar and how good it turns out.  I can also singlehandedly destroy a luthier's business by requesting he build me an instrument.  
But in all seriousness, there are plenty of Mayones in my price range. Though, the 8 strings tend to get quite pricey.

Back on topic, I find it interesting that so few people are interested in BM 8 strings.


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Feb 14, 2014)

Necris said:


> Congrats on the new guitar, I do wish the mods edited the title to "CAPSMACHINE" instead of Blackmcapslock though.


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## tmfrank (Feb 14, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Back on topic, I find it interesting that so few people are interested in BM 8 strings.



I think that's only because there have been very few BM 8's to hit the market. Or at least, based on my quick search, I come up with little to no actual NGD's or videos with them. With that said, I think it'd be cool to see more of them too!


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 15, 2014)

Yeah I only know of 2 b8 and 2 f8's ... I am sure there are more but those are just people I know .


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## DevinShidaker (Feb 15, 2014)

for a guitar in that price range, if it showed up at my house with the tuners thrown on that haphazardly I would lose my god damn mind.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 15, 2014)

DevinShidaker said:


> for a guitar in that price range, if it showed up at my house with the tuners thrown on that haphazardly I would lose my god damn mind.



I bet you would lose you mind then if you spent the same amount on a different brand and could put a quarter in the neck pocket ... This guitar is sick a misaligned tuner will not convince me otherwise considering what I have seen in the past on several brands lol .


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## narad (Feb 15, 2014)

tmfrank said:


> I think that's only because there have been very few BM 8's to hit the market. Or at least, based on my quick search, I come up with little to no actual NGD's or videos with them. With that said, I think it'd be cool to see more of them too!



The last B8 I saw hit the market went for $2800 on ebay. Fo' reeelz. But this is pre-hype / post-hype.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 15, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Yeah I only know of 2 b8 and 2 f8's ... I am sure there are more but those are just people I know .



There are about 4-5 FF8s and 2 B8s that I can think of
10-15 B7s according to Doug
Maybe 40+ B2s but thats just a guess since the majority are unaccounted for nowadays


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 15, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> There are about 4-5 FF8s and 2 B8s that I can think of
> 10-15 B7s according to Doug
> Maybe 40+ B2s but thats just a guess since the majority are unaccounted for nowadays



I believe it . I was just saying i know people who have those . I can't believe there is that many b2's lol I wanna see some of them .


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 15, 2014)

To be honest thats a very rough guess. Doug built a lot of B2s for friends and musicians all around England so it could be less or more. Good luck getting one for a sane price nowadays.


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## asfeir (Feb 15, 2014)

Cool! 
I think my b6 Will be ready this summer! Cant wait im so curious and expecting something different from what i already know. High hopes and stuff lol.


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## Ed the sock (Feb 15, 2014)

To the OP: Cool guitars and really glad you are enjoying them.
Interesting to have one of the old and one of the newer ones too.

Remember seeing Doug/Blackmachine at the London Guitar Shows years ago and he sometimes had Sikth on his stand which was cool.
Feline used to be there too - sharing a stand with Bare Knuckle if I recall.
Funny when you realise that it's a small community and all these guys know each other.

Sadly haven't been any Guitar shows near London for a few years - difficult climate for them. Sad really.

Think it was all B2s at the time - maybe a B7 (can't recall) - didn't see any B6s though - they came along later.

Should have snapped one up when I could


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 15, 2014)

Ed the sock said:


> To the OP: Cool guitars and really glad you are enjoying them.
> Interesting to have one of the old and one of the newer ones too.
> 
> Remember seeing Doug/Blackmachine at the London Guitar Shows years ago and he sometimes had Sikth on his stand which was cool.
> ...


After not being able to put my b6 down I think its safe to say i'd give my left nut for a b2.


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## Ed the sock (Feb 15, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> After not being able to put my b6 down I think its safe to say i'd give my left nut for a b2.



But it's good that you are enjoying your purchase (irrespective of brand) - if it rocks your world and makes you want to play then it can only be a good thing.


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## Erockomania (Feb 15, 2014)

Really cool guitars. I'm hoping I see one at NAMM next year so I can play one to see what the hype is about.

I am genuinely curious, as other are, as to why these "slay". Seriously. I'm not being facetious. They are swamp ash, maple and rosewood and some BKPs. Are they some magical selections of wood that have ridiculously awesome acoustic qualities or something? Is the action insanely low with no buzz? I imagine they sound relatively similar to any other guitar with the same woods and BKPs. I imagine they play like any other well set up guitar with decent attention paid to the frets. Lastly, these aren't even built by Doug, right?

As I said, probably great guitars, but the specs are so common that I just don't know where the magic comes from especially when the magician is not building them, but subbing them out to Feline (who is a fine company, no doubt). 

And to compare a common spec'd guitar(very well built, no doubt) to a Vik which was very likely super exotic with a dozen more details and then say it slays it is a little disingenuous, no?


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## narad (Feb 15, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> And to compare a common spec'd guitar(very well built, no doubt) to a Vik which was very likely super exotic with a dozen more details and then say it slays it is a little disingenuous, no?



Well since we're all in the Olympic spirit of things - do you prefer the guy that attempts the really difficult routine and falls on his ass a few times, or the guy that perfectly executes a very bland one?

Of course, those are just aesthetic details. Whether it "slays" shouldn't be mixed up with how exotic the woods are or how crazy the binding is.


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## Metal-Box (Feb 15, 2014)

narad said:


> Of course, those are just aesthetic details. Whether it "slays" shouldn't be mixed up with how exotic the woods are or how crazy the binding is.




I think the appearance of a guitar contributes to it's "slay" factor. I know when I am very happy with a guitar, it is also a guitar I cannot stop looking at. Also, sometimes the aesthetics, looks, form, and balance of a guitar contribute to it's playability.


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## Erockomania (Feb 15, 2014)

narad said:


> Well since we're all in the Olympic spirit of things - do you prefer the guy that attempts the really difficult routine and falls on his ass a few times, or the guy that perfectly executes a very bland one?
> 
> Of course, those are just aesthetic details. Whether it "slays" shouldn't be mixed up with how exotic the woods are or how crazy the binding is.



Oh I'd prefer exotic and super well built... best of both worlds  

You can pretty much guarantee the vik was damn near flawless, gorgeous and played amazingly well. Compare that to a feline BM.


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## narad (Feb 15, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


> I think the appearance of a guitar contributes to it's "slay" factor. I know when I am very happy with a guitar, it is also a guitar I cannot stop looking at. Also, sometimes the aesthetics, looks, form, and balance of a guitar contribute to it's playability.



Eh, I think I have to stop you right there. Slay factor, if that's what we've really sunk to calling it, shouldn't change if I blindfold you and hand you a random guitar. Certainly I'm happier when I like the guitar's aesthetic, but entirely separate from its playability.

Balance... that's not an aesthetic consideration IMO.



Erockomania said:


> You can pretty much guarantee the vik was damn near flawless, gorgeous and played amazingly well. Compare that to a feline BM.



I don't know why. Particularly after NAMM there were some pretty negative opinions regarding build flaws. Everyone who played the NAMM guitars seem to agree that they played great, but criticized the quality of construction. I've heard bad things about the quality of inlays in pre-NAMM guitars, so it's not entirely due to a possible NAMM rush either.


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## Ed the sock (Feb 15, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> As I said, probably great guitars, but the specs are so common that I just don't know where the magic comes from especially when the magician is not building them, but subbing them out to Feline (who is a fine company, no doubt).



The UK is a bit like Hogwarts - there are quite a few magicians. 
Feline have a good rep here in the UK for repairs and fretwork and their customs builds are also well liked from what I see on other forums .

But the materials are as you say traditional, and the hardware is good but not anything unusual. But they seem well put together and it's a design that people seem to like, and the playability is what gets raved about. The new ones seem as well regarded for that as the old judging by recent comments from owners.
I dunno, but as long as the guys buying them are happy ....gotta be better to read about than another Invictus saga.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 15, 2014)

Viks are killer playing guitars but the one I had was not built well whatsoever and all the ones I have seen pictures of have huge gaps in places and side dots way off etc . The only thing I have noticed is the tuners are a little off on my b6 .


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Viks are killer playing guitars but the one I had was not built well whatsoever and all the ones I have seen pictures of have huge gaps in places and side dots way off etc . The only thing I have noticed is the tuners are a little off on my b6 .



I'm by no means a vik fanboy but I have never seen an issue or heard of one on one of his guitars. 

Still, the b6 is basic. If the cnc machine is working correctly, they are relatively hard to screw up for a seasoned luthier.


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## constepatdyak (Feb 16, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Viks are killer playing guitars but the one I had was not built well whatsoever and all the ones I have seen pictures of have huge gaps in places and side dots way off etc . The only thing I have noticed is the *tuners are a little off* on my b6 .



Which should not happen for a guitar surrounded by so much hype and glorified so much it's become stuff of legend. If I was paying ungodly amounts of money for a blackmachine, I would expect damn perfection. Despite all this, I am not taking away the fact that it seems lik a great guitar.


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## canuck brian (Feb 16, 2014)

DevinShidaker said:


> for a guitar in that price range, if it showed up at my house with the tuners thrown on that haphazardly I would lose my god damn mind.



Ok. I'm going to step in here. Drilling holes for tuners could be one of the most tricky and brutal things to get 100% dead on. Unless you're using a CNC to cut the holes in the headstock, there's a solid chance that, even when using a template, that drill bit is going to wander ever so slightly off center. Those are hardly "haphazardly" installed. 

Unless these guys suddenly get their hands on 4 axis cnc machines (you're going to eat a 5 digit pricetag on that btw), please expect that any step done by hand just might have a slight imperfection. I'm guilty of the exact same thing. 

I still have yet to play a Blackmachine and I'm pretty certain that they're damn good guitars. I'd love to have a couple of hours with one to go over it and see what the deal is with them.


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> Ok. I'm going to step in here. Drilling holes for tuners could be one of the most tricky and brutal things to get 100% dead on. Unless you're using a CNC to cut the holes in the headstock, there's a solid chance that, even when using a template, that drill bit is going to wander ever so slightly off center. Those are hardly "haphazardly" installed.
> 
> Unless these guys suddenly get their hands on 4 axis cnc machines (you're going to eat a 5 digit pricetag on that btw), please expect that any step done by hand just might have a slight imperfection. I'm guilty of the exact same thing.
> 
> I still have yet to play a Blackmachine and I'm pretty certain that they're damn good guitars. I'd love to have a couple of hours with one to go over it and see what the deal is with them.



clamps and a drill press? custom jig?


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## canuck brian (Feb 16, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> clamps and a drill press? custom jig?



Of which I have all 3.


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> Of which I have all 3.



please forgive me... I'm not a luthier, but wouldn't this make it bullet proof?

STEWMAC.COM : Tuner Drill Jigs


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## Speculum Speculorum (Feb 16, 2014)

Thou shalt not question Doug's tuner hole drilling choices.

Don't you know he drills one hole every three months when the lunar cycle is at it's peak? As his relative position to the Sirius Star changes, he has to make adjustments to the position of the tuning pegs so that it... uh... vibrates to the correct... uh... universal alignment... and uh... also something something Enochian texts... yeaaaah... thaaaat's it.... 

And that pickup alignment... Boson Higgs field adjustments... ahem... yes... yes...

No WAIT! The slight imperfections are _*HOW YOU KNOW*_ it's hand made... where else did I hear that before?

* Cough Cough Bernie Rico F*CKWIT JR. Cough Cough *


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## technomancer (Feb 16, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Viks are killer playing guitars but the one I had was not built well whatsoever and all the ones I have seen pictures of have huge gaps in places and side dots way off etc . The only thing I have noticed is the tuners are a little off on my b6 .



Funny as that's the exact opposite of what you said in your NGD for the Vik.



Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> So I Got this baby today and all I can say is its the best playing, *best built guitar I have ever played/owned* . I have owned/played many private stock prs mayones masterbuilt , mayones artist guitars , suhr artist guitars , fender custom shop , fender masterbuilt etc and this just kills them all . You can tell the neck was all hand craft and the body etc its so unique and refined anyway heres some fap worthy photos .


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 16, 2014)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Hahaha, yeah. "Can't afford a Ferrari? No problem man, just buy a Maserati!"



... then let them eat cake...

 @ Techno...


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

technomancer said:


> Funny as that's the exact opposite of what you said in your NGD for the Vik.



I notice a trend.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 16, 2014)

The vik was ..... the handcarved neck was the best feeling neck I had ever felt and everything about it was solid as hell I am about to buy it back .... I didn't say it was flawless quality however but you can tell the time and effort put into the build was amazing that guitar is #2 to me still regardless of its flaws .....


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## Speculum Speculorum (Feb 16, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> I notice a trend.



Everything is the best build ever! SS.org standard.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 16, 2014)

Theres a difference between best quality and best built ....... just like anything else ... a brieitling watch is one of the best built but not the best quality like a Patel phillipe tourbillion movement .


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## technomancer (Feb 16, 2014)

Speculum Speculorum said:


> Everything is the best build ever! SS.org Flipper standard.



Fixed that for you


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## canuck brian (Feb 16, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> please forgive me... I'm not a luthier, but wouldn't this make it bullet proof?
> 
> STEWMAC.COM : Tuner Drill Jigs



If I was drilling that spacing, it would be 95% dead on. You still need to account for the chatter of your bit, wear in the hole of the template or the template slipping. I've got custom drilling templates and it can still cause things to wander. I'm getting stainless steel 1/2 inch drilling templates made right now for my headstocks and each one is coming in at $75 a pop. 

Anytime any process is done by hand, something has a very extreme chance of moving it out of that 100% mark unfortunately. Thats the downside of handbuilt and its the reason that I do all my bodies and fretboards on CNC. 

I have zero doubt that Doug makes a kick ass guitar. He's still a human though and can make a mistake, no matter how small. Unfortunately a small mistake is the difference between having something dead on perfect and a guitar that is 99% awesome with that 1% being that stupid tiny mistake that drives you nuts.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Feb 16, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> I have zero doubt that Doug makes a kick ass guitar. He's still a human though and can make a mistake, no matter how small. Unfortunately a small mistake is the difference between having something dead on perfect and a guitar that is 99% awesome with that 1% being that stupid tiny mistake that drives you nuts.



I just find it funny that with many other builders, people would be shitting molten steel about similar issues (see BRJ, Skerveson, Black Water Guitars, many other threads). But when it's one of a few special dudes who make guitars that so many ss.org-ers want to make the babies with, they're suddenly immune to scrutiny.

And besides, the OP said the guitar is flawless, in fact... MORE flawless than his Vik guitar... something is rotten in Denmark, methinks...


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 16, 2014)

Nevermind cleared things up


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## technomancer (Feb 16, 2014)

BTW since I got caught up in the usual BS for Blackmachine threads, congrats on the NGD and glad you're liking it. At the end of the day the important thing is that the guitar works for the player


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

so, what is the difference then? playability isn't it, as you stated the vik is right there with it, aesthetics isn't it as it's just a basic build(albeit understated is perfectly fine), perfection isn't it as it has some minor imperfections... 

SO it slays everything else, but how?

Serious question. I'm trying to cut through the hype and get the real answer. 

I fear once we really get down to it, the B6 is amazing only because of the metal badge on the back. Doug-built BMs are probably a different story.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 16, 2014)

It is louder than the vik, any mayones acoustically ... It's louder than a hollow body prs ja-15 we compared them today in guitar center . The attack is like nothing I have ever played . The pure ease of playing just doesnt make any sense . It sounds so huge through everything .All the employees at guitar center ageed and so did the others . There is just nothing like it


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## Erockomania (Feb 16, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> It is louder than the vik, any mayones acoustically ... It's louder than a hollow body prs ja-15 we compared them today in guitar center . The attack is like nothing I have ever played . The pure ease of playing just doesnt make any sense . It sounds so huge through everything .All the employees at guitar center ageed and so did the others . There is just nothing like it



interesting. thanks for the clarification.

so, essentially, great setup, amazing wood selections, a tight neck pocket and neck/body join? because, let's face it, ash/maple/rosewood is probably the most common super strat combination. it never fails to impress either. winning combo. throw in the BKPs and it is going to be a great sounding guitar, no doubt.

have you tried the same pickups in the other guitars or do they have different pickups? because, undoubtedly, that will make the biggest difference in a guitar. 

I find my aftermaths equipped Skerv sounds quite a bit bigger than all my other guitars. BKPs are great pickups, for sure.


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## MetalDaze (Feb 16, 2014)

Lots of people wonder about the hype of blackmachine and often credit Doug as a marketing genius. I always liked this quote from his website:



> Uniquely blending beautiful sound in an understated, original and ergonomic package, the B2 divided opinion as much in 2001 as it does today.
> 
> It couldn't have had a bigger endorsement than being rejected by the mainstream - and adopted by a number of technically brilliant new generation guitar players.


 We are the ones creating the hype, not Doug. All of this back and forth about what makes them so great (or not great) is exactly what keeps people interested in them.


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## Alberto7 (Feb 16, 2014)

"Whoso carveth out this guitar from this tree, is Rightwise Shredder-King Born of all Guitardom."

In reality, Doug is the famed wizard Merlin, who, after over a millennium spent in Avalon, came back to live among us mortals again with the sole purpose of making the most legendary guitars mankind has ever seen. The frets and hardware on his guitars are molded out of the everlasting and immortal metal of Excalibur's blade and sheath, the wood is cut from sacred trees in Camlann, and the oil finish is made with holy water that he once stole from the Lady of the Lake. That's why his guitars are the best ever created and have received such merit, guys. Get your facts right.

...

Leaving my boredom and desire for trolling aside, I'm glad that the OP likes his guitar. I'm not one to fall for the hype that Blackmachines get, but I do like their looks (specially the more exotic B2s), and they must at least play nicely. That's a really cool guitar you got there (trying my best to look past the crooked tuners... but I tell ya', it's no easy task).


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## GSingleton (Feb 16, 2014)

it is just a piece of ash


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## Metal-Box (Feb 16, 2014)

narad said:


> Eh, I think I have to stop you right there. Slay factor, if that's what we've really sunk to calling it, shouldn't change if I blindfold you and hand you a random guitar. Certainly I'm happier when I like the guitar's aesthetic, but entirely separate from its playability.
> 
> Balance... that's not an aesthetic consideration IMO.



Blindfold me and stick a flying V in in my hands and I will definitely not like it even if it is a gorgeous guitar. Playability is completely tied to it's shape in my opinion. Aesthetics (the appearance) has a lot to do with playability. If the shape, for instance, is not comfortable, I don't care how beautiful the guitar looks, it's "slay factor" goes down a lot. If the guitar has a really beautiful binding, but it slows down my hands, then it's losing points.


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## asher (Feb 16, 2014)

Alberto7 said:


> "Whoso carveth out this guitar from this tree, is Rightwise Shredder-King Born of all Guitardom."
> 
> In reality, Doug is the famed wizard Merlin, who, after over a millennium spent in Avalon, came back to live among us mortals again with the sole purpose of making the most legendary guitars mankind has ever seen. The frets and hardware on his guitars are molded out of the everlasting and immortal metal of Excalibur's blade and sheath, the wood is cut from sacred trees in Camlann, and the oil finish is made with holy water that he once stole from the Lady of the Lake. That's why his guitars are the best ever created and have received such merit, guys. Get your facts right.



Pretty sure that'd be a much better fit for Dylan from Daemoness 

OT: HNGD! I'm not even close to enough of a player to warrant any of these super nice instruments, but I'd still love to check one out to see what's up.


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## narad (Feb 16, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


> Blindfold me and stick a flying V in in my hands and I will definitely not like it even if it is a gorgeous guitar. Playability is completely tied to it's shape in my opinion. Aesthetics (the appearance) has a lot to do with playability. If the shape, for instance, is not comfortable, I don't care how beautiful the guitar looks, it's "slay factor" goes down a lot. If the guitar has a really beautiful binding, but it slows down my hands, then it's losing points.



C'mon man. Whether something is comfortable or not is not an aesthetic concern, and it's definitely not relevant in contrasting a B2 or Vik with a B6.


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## Metal-Box (Feb 17, 2014)

narad said:


> C'mon man. Whether something is comfortable or not is not an aesthetic concern, and it's definitely not relevant in contrasting a B2 or Vik with a B6.




Form is definitely an aesthetic concern that affects playability. Look outside of the world of guitars for a second. Tons of things are designed around blending aesthetics into a comfortable product.

Apple Computers basically have made their billions off of this concept.


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## Erockomania (Feb 17, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


> Form is definitely an aesthetic concern that affects playability. Look outside of the world of guitars for a second. Tons of things are designed around blending aesthetics into a comfortable product.
> 
> Apple Computers basically have made their billions off of this concept.



unless he is simply talking about visual aesthetic.


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## traditional (Feb 17, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


> Apple Computers basically have made their billions off of this concept.



Tell that to the millions of audio engineers, editors, graphic designers and so on that all see the Mac as a superior machine for that purpose. The same applies here - a particular demographic of players see this as perfect for what they do. 
Give BB King or Eric Johnson a Blackmachine and I'm sure they (especially the latter) could write you a short story on what was wrong with that instrument and why it didn't work for them.

On topic, happy NGD dude. Any noticeable differences between your and your mates' B2?


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## asher (Feb 17, 2014)

Metal-Box said:


> Apple Computers basically have made their billions off of this concept.



Also a large part their marketing.


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## GSingleton (Feb 17, 2014)

I guess I will have to come over and play it now jordan....


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## Metal-Box (Feb 17, 2014)

traditional said:


> Tell that to the millions of audio engineers, editors, graphic designers and so on that all see the Mac as a superior machine for that purpose. The same applies here - a particular demographic of players see this as perfect for what they do.
> Give BB King or Eric Johnson a Blackmachine and I'm sure they (especially the latter) could write you a short story on what was wrong with that instrument and why it didn't work for them.
> 
> On topic, happy NGD dude. Any noticeable differences between your and your mates' B2?


 
I wasn't saying anything to the contrary. Reread what I wrote. I said that form can (and does) have a lot to do with function. Apple knows how to do that.


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## Metal-Box (Feb 17, 2014)

asher said:


> Also a large part their marketing.


 
Well, that goes without saying.


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## GSingleton (Feb 17, 2014)

Wait....is this a schecter custom?


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## Metal-Box (Feb 17, 2014)

GSingleton said:


> Wait....is this a schecter custom?


 
LOL


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## Ed the sock (Feb 18, 2014)

Saw this label on one of the new Klon pedals...in Premier Guitar







Maybe Doug & Feline needs to put this label on the guitars now.


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 18, 2014)

Right?


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## hairychris (Feb 18, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> so, what is the difference then? playability isn't it, as you stated the vik is right there with it, aesthetics isn't it as it's just a basic build(albeit understated is perfectly fine), perfection isn't it as it has some minor imperfections...



The tuners being like that is weird. Never seen a BM like that... are they replacements? Otherwise it's a bit , yeah.



Erockomania said:


> SO it slays everything else, but how?
> 
> Serious question. I'm trying to cut through the hype and get the real answer.



These are very resonant and play fast. They also aren't for everyone. If it suits the OP's requirements for a guitar, then it obviously talks to him the right way.

I can't say whether they're better than any other good guitar, it's far too subjective. 



Erockomania said:


> I fear once we really get down to it, the B6 is amazing only because of the metal badge on the back. Doug-built BMs are probably a different story.



As for B6s, having tried Doug built and Feline built ones, they are identical.

The customs are a different matter as are constructed differently (top, chambered bodies, bound, filleted or solid necks as opposed to laminate with custom carves). Again, they won't suit everyone and aren't necessarily better than other guitars in that bracket - but a lot of that is down to what the player wants from a guitar.

The hype is hilarious. Historically the only place that Doug advertised was on his own website (and there's still a MySpace profile), plus at certain trade shows. The only change recently is the B6 side of things. The whole "carved from god's toenail clippings" BS is the Internet - looking at you ss.org! - doing what it does best. 



asher said:


> OT: HNGD! I'm not even close to enough of a player to warrant any of these super nice instruments, but I'd still love to check one out to see what's up.



Erm, you don't want to know how bad I am. There's no "talent test" for ownership, hahahahahaha!


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## Ed the sock (Feb 18, 2014)

The tuners on Dez's old B6 look like Schaller back locking ones like you find on Fender strat plus guitars - same kind as Doug's own B6 had (in copper colour) - so maybe original.

I quite like them as a tuner - my mate's strat had them and always worked well.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 18, 2014)

I can't say for sure because everything is so secretive lol but this guitar is old so maybe it was one of Doug's first b6's .. It was made in like 06 I think .


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 18, 2014)

Kind of looks like my coffee table.

If I were a luthier, I'd create a company called "guitars that look like coffee tables (GLCT)", and I'd make guitars that look like coffee tables and sell them for a crapton of money. People love guitars that look like coffee tables. 

Congrats on the guitar though, I'm sure it's incredible despite the hate. I think when you bluntly say "this one's better than ALL OF THEM" to a bunch of seasoned high end guitar owners you're bound to stir up some hate, though.


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## Ed the sock (Feb 18, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> I can't say for sure because everything is so secretive lol but this guitar is old so maybe it was one of Doug's first b6's .. It was made in like 06 I think .



Does it say anything on the inside of the plate? 
I've seen pics where he used to sign them or engrave them.


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## pylyo (Feb 18, 2014)

First of all, happy NGD dude, nice guitar.

For the rest I will write here, mods, please don't kill me, but since this thread turned in to a general BM talk, here is the interesting quote I got in a mail from a guy who sold his BM (linked below) week ago and which the flippers we all know were selling just right away for more than double:

"I payed 1500 for it years ago from Doug. Im more than happy for the money i got for it. I bought two lovely PRS modern eagle guitars, which in my opinion are far superior instruments. All the best." 

http://i.imgur.com/WPTiFt5.png


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## Erockomania (Feb 18, 2014)

pylyo said:


> First of all, happy NGD dude, nice guitar.
> 
> For the rest I will write here, mods, please don't kill me, but since this thread turned in to a general BM talk, here is the interesting quote I got in a mail from a guy who sold his BM (linked below) week ago and which the flippers we all know were selling just right away for more than double:
> 
> ...



We all know exactly who a few flippers are that drove up the price and mystique of BMs. I'm almost cynical enough to believe they did it just for the cash. Hype it like crazy, acquire, flip it. This is why I think the "piling on" is disingenuous.


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## GSingleton (Feb 18, 2014)

who are you?


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## Erockomania (Feb 18, 2014)

GSingleton said:


> who are you?



Nobody special.


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## Erockomania (Feb 18, 2014)

hairychris said:


> The tuners being like that is weird. Never seen a BM like that... are they replacements? Otherwise it's a bit , yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time! I'm sure they are great playing guitars and many of them are drop dead gorgeous.


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## SDMFVan (Feb 18, 2014)

pylyo said:


> First of all, happy NGD dude, nice guitar.
> 
> For the rest I will write here, mods, please don't kill me, but since this thread turned in to a general BM talk, here is the interesting quote I got in a mail from a guy who sold his BM (linked below) week ago and which the flippers we all know were selling just right away for more than double:
> 
> ...



I feel bad for the people who are paying $10k+ for these right now because the same two or three people are exploiting the rarity and current hype train. I knew something was out of whack when Feline started tagging these guys in their BM photos on Facebook.


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## narad (Feb 18, 2014)

pylyo said:


> "I payed 1500 for it years ago from Doug. Im more than happy for the money i got for it. I bought two lovely PRS modern eagle guitars, which in my opinion are far superior instruments. All the best."
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/WPTiFt5.png



Jeez, Modern Eagles are one of the few serious guitars I _wouldn't_ take over a blackmachine, dollar for dollar. But yea, it's funny going through old youtube videos of guys who had blackmachines circa 2008, mentioning the guitars costing roughly 1800 (GBP), touting them as good alternatives to Caparison, or a good option if you can't get a Suhr (for the UK guys where the importation price is hefty). My how perspective has changed!

But you can't entirely blame the flippers - a couple bands generated the hype, flippers are mostly just taking advantage of it.


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## Ed the sock (Feb 18, 2014)

I think Feline was being either naiive over the intentions of the people in question , or was simply riding their coattails to get exposure to all the people they have on their network.

I went and had a look at "that other place" and found he was posting about the flipping thing there and didn't seem very pleased about it.
Not surprising when the flippers seem to make 3x the money he does out of it, without having the cost & effort of building the damn thing
He was taking a bit of a pasting from some guy as well...


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 18, 2014)

Who are the people you are talking about ?


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## GSingleton (Feb 18, 2014)

CLEARLY THEY MEAN TECHROMANCER.....IDIOT....


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## technomancer (Feb 19, 2014)

GSingleton said:


> CLEARLY THEY MEAN TECHROMANCER.....IDIOT....



Yes I am a mega-flipper selling blackmachines for $15,000


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## kruneh (Feb 19, 2014)

Gilbertsgotbrootz said:


> Who are the people you are talking about ?



Oh, come on Jordan 

I think it´s a pity that what is a great guitar have been the target for so much shit lately.


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## hairychris (Feb 19, 2014)

SDMFVan said:


> I feel bad for the people who are paying $10k+ for these right now because the same two or three people are exploiting the rarity and current hype train. I knew something was out of whack when Feline started tagging these guys in their BM photos on Facebook.



I don't *think* that B6s are being flipped for that amount cash but the full customs... If, however, it is B6s then whoever buys one for that money is a complete retard with more money than sense, especially as you can get on the list.


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## SDMFVan (Feb 19, 2014)

hairychris said:


> I don't *think* that B6s are being flipped for that amount cash but the full customs... If, however, it is B6s then whoever buys one for that money is a complete retard with more money than sense, especially as you can get on the list.



I meant the B2's. Most of them originally retailed for $2k (or less), and are more than likely destined to return to that price point once the hype dies down.

The Feline made B6's retailing for $4k is a whole other story.


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## hairychris (Feb 19, 2014)

SDMFVan said:


> I meant the B2's. Most of them originally retailed for $2k (or less), and are more than likely destined to return to that price point once the hype dies down.
> 
> The Feline made B6's retailing for $4k is a whole other story.



Um, not exactly. B2s started life at around 1500-1750 GBP 10 years ago, at USD/GBP rate of 2 to 1. The mad spec B2 that I own cost the original owner 2250 GBP at "mate's rates" in 2006.

2010 going rate for a B2 was 2300ish GBP base, or more if you wanted exotics. Base B7s were 2500 GBP. The first B6s were 1700 GBP or so at the same time - I played the 1st one while I was round at Doug's finalising last tweaks for my B7 early 2010.

B2s have *NEVER* been on sale for 2000 USD. 

Edit: But these prices are very reasonable for a guitar in the UK. You should see how much US imported guitars cost... Even with the current price hikes it's not too bad a price for a fully handbuilt instrument.

Edit 2: London Guitar Show 2007 or 2008 he was showing a spalt topped B2 with zebra fretboard. That was listed at 2250 GBP. I was soooo close to jumping on that one!


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## SDMFVan (Feb 19, 2014)

So $4000 then, it doesn't change my point that these are only selling for $15k because of market manipulation.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I read elsewhere recently that the last B2 order Doug took (last year I guess?), went to a high bidder of around $15k. It's his prerogative to let his services go to the highest bidder, but to say that this market manipulation has nothing to do with anything Doug has done is ludicrous. Is wanting to build 1 guitar for $15k as opposed to building 3 for $5k "artistic", or just good economics?


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## hairychris (Feb 19, 2014)

As far as I am aware Doug didn't sell slots, but did sell his own B2 for a bunch of cash (best offer around a price, not an auction as such).

For the market manipulation - Seriously, it isn't coming from him... He put his prices up over the past couple of years because he was not making any money on his builds. He also only opened a small set of slots last year because he ended up with stupid waiting lists and it all got a bit crazy - 2 1/2 years for my B7, for example. 

And for the B6s, they're a set price. Just get on the waiting list, there's no auctioning going on. All of the stupid flipping that's going on - I know for certain that it's pissing Feline off, but I haven't spoken to Doug in ages so can't comment there.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 19, 2014)

Edit: Ninja's by Chris

They are selling for $15k because of supply and demand. You can't get a new BM now, not even if you throw a bag of money towards one. A few people are on a waitlist if/when Doug starts building again. Your only option is to buy second hand and with the recent explosion of popularity the second hand price has tripled over the last year. In the future there might be one or two for sale, these will most likely go to someone on the wait list or again be up for sale on the site. 

That B2 wasn't an order guitar. It was Doug's personal B2 that he had to sell and deeply regret having to do it. Just like you an everybody else he has bills to pay and a life to enjoy so it went to someone who offered a lot and was sure to give it a good home. You wouldn't believe some of the offers he's turned down for his guitars.



GSingleton said:


> Wait....is this a schecter custom?



 I'm not getting the joke here. My Schecter CS is one of the few guitars I'd put near the level of BM.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Feb 19, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> They are selling for $15k because of supply and demand. You can't get a new BM now, not even if you throw a bag of money towards one. A few people are on a waitlist if/when Doug starts building again. Your only option is to buy second hand and with the recent explosion of popularity the second hand price has tripled over the last year.
> 
> That B2 wasn't an order guitar. It was Doug's personal B2 that he had to sell and deeply regret having to do it. Just like you an everybody else he has bills to pay and a life to enjoy so it went to someone who offered a lot and was sure to give it a good home. You wouldn't believe some of the offers he's turned down for his guitars.







For the record, I don't blame Doug one bit. If I could do what he is doing, I'd be all over it. Hype is created by people who hype the guitars. Doug is just making them. I say more power to him.


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## Lewk (Feb 19, 2014)

I've played a few BlackMachines. Both by Doug and Feline. I actually preffered the Feline whatever that's worth. They're great guitars that do have something unique about them.

There's alot of talk about worth and value going on by people that don't own them and quite possibly haven't played them. And the exchange rate rarely seems to get discussed. I don't think anyone could say £2300 is alot for a masterbuilt guitar.

It's a shame that the man who could shed alot of light on facts and figures has been banned :-(

And you're kind of asking for a drama thread comparing it to a Vik in the way that you did. 

But happy guitar day! Enjoy!


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## steve_k (Feb 19, 2014)

Fortunately, the market for Blackmachines doesn't revolve around a few forum trolls. Whatever your brand of choice is, enjoy it and play it in good health. If you are fortunate enough to have one or two of them, then its a safe bet that your investment will not lose half its value yearly like most brands.


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## axxessdenied (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't get why people get upset about the fact that B2's are being sold for $15k??? How come guys like Misha won't let their Blackmachines go for ridiculous sums of cash? 

It's not like Doug or Feline guitars did any hyping themselves or benefit from the hype at all...

It's a used market. Supply is super low. And, people that DO own them are reluctant to let them go. Got to pay to play. Simple as that. No point getting mad. We all have our personal preferences. 

Another thing. Guitar players in general are really ....ING cheap compared to other musicians. $15k isn't really that large of a sum when compared to some other instruments...


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