# Jackson Pro Series Now Made In China?



## RLG167 (Apr 25, 2021)

Hey guys,
I was thinking about picking up the new Jackson Pro Series MF1 with the cracked mirror, but it looks like the Pros are made in China now? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they made in Indonesia before? I'm an ESP player usually so I'm not all too familiar with Jackson, but I'm not sure I want to drop $1,200 on a Chinese quality guitar. I used to work for a Gibson dealer and all the Epiphones we got in were made in China and they played like absolute garbage. Even the "nicer" ones like the customs and the Prophecies. Has anyone played one of the new Pros?
Thanks!


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## Randy (Apr 25, 2021)

The Strandberg Classics are MIC, IIRC.


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## diagrammatiks (Apr 25, 2021)

Randy said:


> The Strandberg Classics are MIC, IIRC.



no the new ones are indo. there aren't any Chinese strand bergs anymore.


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## Edika (Apr 25, 2021)

To my understanding the crackle and mirror pro Jacksons are made in China and the rest are Indo made. The Brandon Ellis though seems to be made in Indonesia, even though it has a crackle finish.


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## RLG167 (Apr 25, 2021)

Has anyone tried the Chinese ones though? They look slick but I'm curious especially about the fretwork. Every Chinese guitar, even up to the $800 range has had some of the worst fretwork I've seen, scratchy frets that felt like playing on sandpaper


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Apr 25, 2021)

The country of origin from where the guitar is made doesn't actually matter. Jackson decides at what level of quality control their guitars are built to. Not the factory they're made in.


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## Ivars V (Apr 25, 2021)

Imo, country of origin doesn't matter that much these days - price point does. Of course, every factory, every brand is different. Overall, I wasn't impressed with Indonesian Jacksons. Chinese made Jacksons do look better fit & finish wise.


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## skullfxr (Apr 25, 2021)

I would not spend that much a Chinese guitar. Not that they can't be good but I wouldn't do it. Indo were better than a lot of MIC I have played.

I understand the economics of trade and manufacturing but I just could not drop that much cash on one.

USA gets expensive, then MIJ and was affordable, then MIJ got expensive then MIK was reasonable, then MIK is no longer cheap, that leaves China, Indo, India and Thai etc. It's a natural progression and I understand that, but it doesn't mean that I like it or would agree.

I am almost all USA and MIJ in my collection and that is where I l like to be.


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## trem licking (Apr 25, 2021)

You can pay for certain QC all ya want, but im willing to bet factory and country of origin matters. MIJ is most consistent/best overall


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## skullfxr (Apr 25, 2021)

trem licking said:


> You can pay for certain QC all ya want, but im willing to bet factory and country of origin matters. MIJ is most consistent/best overall



I have yet to get a dud MIJ Jackson (I bought two new back before the tsunami screwed things up) I have gone through another 10-15 MIJ Jacksons, all very nice instruments. My MIJ Ibanez Prestiges habe always been flawless. Same with the two MIJ ESP's I have had. That is not considering other MIJ guitars.

I have yet to see another country be so consistent in a broad price range over a 20 year period.


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## trem licking (Apr 25, 2021)

skullfxr said:


> I have yet to get a dud MIJ Jackson (I bought two new back before the tsunami screwed things up) I have gone through another 10-15 MIJ Jacksons, all very nice instruments. My MIJ Ibanez Prestiges habe always been flawless. Same with the two MIJ ESP's I have had. That is not considering other MIJ guitars.
> 
> I have yet to see another country be so consistent in a broad price range over a 20 year period.



Same here! I've never personally come across a bad MIJ guitar, but i have had LOTS from "as good as Japan now" MIK factories (I'm looking at YOU, WMI!). I'm not talking about finish flaws or little tiny mess ups, I'm talking functional issues... truss rod too deep/small to be able to adjust, floyd route in the wrong spot (even weirder than that, only part of the route was done wrong), etc etc. Indo and Chinese guitars have always had horrible fit and finish comparatively, but seem to not have glaring issues in my experience so far. If im buying from a big retailer or somewhere with a good no hassle return policy and the guitar has the specs that i want, i dont really care where its built... but I'm always crossing my fingers because i have returned a lot


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## 73647k (Apr 25, 2021)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> The country of origin from where the guitar is made doesn't actually matter.



It sure does when you purchase new and then decide somewhere down the road that you want to sell it. It is what it is


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## skullfxr (Apr 25, 2021)

trem licking said:


> Same here! I've never personally come across a bad MIJ guitar, but i have had LOTS from "as good as Japan now" MIK factories (I'm looking at YOU, WMI!). I'm not talking about finish flaws or little tiny mess ups, I'm talking functional issues... truss rod too deep/small to be able to adjust, floyd route in the wrong spot (even weirder than that, only part of the route was done wrong), etc etc. Indo and Chinese guitars have always had horrible fit and finish comparatively, but seem to not have glaring issues in my experience so far. If im buying from a big retailer or somewhere with a good no hassle return policy and the guitar has the specs that i want, i dont really care where its built... but I'm always crossing my fingers because i have returned a lot



I agree that there are *some* even *many* MIK that are 'as good as a" MIJ, I have a few and had a few. But never a bad MIJ, but many many mediocre MIK, even though they have come a long way.

If I had to gamble or bet on any country to make a consistent guitar and I could only have one, MIJ all the way.


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## RLG167 (Apr 25, 2021)

Yeah see I'm an ESP guy all the way, I currently own 6 (one standard, four EII and one custom shop) and they're all consistently amazing. The same gibson retailer I worked for also sold Ibanez and not a single MIJ one came in with an issue, and most of the Indo ones had some kind of problem (and don't even get me started on the Indo basses!) But I am a big Marty fan and I LOVE the purple cracked mirror. I'm just hesitant because the $900 epiphones we used to sell that were MIC and supposed to be "high quality" always turned out to have the absolute worst fretwork I've ever seen. Idk if maybe that's more a gibson brand issue, as the new Kramers run up towards the $1,300 mark and have just as God awful fretwork, but I'm hesitant to spend $1,100 on a Chinese guitar if it's gonna have that same feel. If someone told me they have played one of the new MIC Pros and the fretwork was good and didn't feel like playing on sandpaper, then I'd have no problem getting it


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 25, 2021)

I dig me some MIJ guitars and all, but Fujigen (Ibanez) has been dodgy as shit for years, and Caparison is even worse. The whole Japanese craftsmanship thing is something of a myth these days. They're not any better than stuff from Korea or USA or Czech or wherever anymore. 

Maybe 20 or 30 years ago when they really hit thier stride, and some manufacturers have always set the bar high (namely ESP), but not now. 

Country doesn't matter. 

My MIC Eastman is better than any, and I do mean any, non-JC Ibanez I've ever played or owned.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 25, 2021)

I played a mirror kelly and it was ok, nothing great. That's pretty much how I feel about most indo and chinese x series I've tried the last few years. A bunch had sharp frets and shitty initial setups, some minor finish issues (mostly tool marks and some swirling from polishing). Nothing that can't be fixed but I also see far less of it from comparable LTDs or Schecters.


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## Bodes (Apr 25, 2021)

If the look and feel are great apart from the electronics and frets, you gotta debate whether to buy any guitar, from any country, and spend the money fixing those up vs buying a higher spec (read: more expensive) guitar, from another country. No guarantees the more expensive guitars will be "perfect", either.

Considering 99.9% of people on this forum change the stock electronics straight away, the only real question is about the fret work costs and maybe about the warranty if doing said fret work voids it.


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## RLG167 (Apr 25, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I played a mirror kelly and it was ok, nothing great. That's pretty much how I feel about most indo and chinese x series I've tried the last few years. A bunch had sharp frets and shitty initial setups, some minor finish issues (mostly tool marks and some swirling from polishing). Nothing that can't be fixed but I also see far less of it from comparable LTDs or Schecters.


I agree I don't like the X series either, but this is about the Pro Series, it's supposed to be the higher end import they make. Just wondering if the quality suffers from them moving from Indonesia to China


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## RLG167 (Apr 25, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I dig me some MIJ guitars and all, but Fujigen (Ibanez) has been dodgy as shit for years, and Caparison is even worse. The whole Japanese craftsmanship thing is something of a myth these days. They're not any better than stuff from Korea or USA or Czech or wherever anymore.
> 
> Maybe 20 or 30 years ago when they really hit thier stride, and some manufacturers have always set the bar high (namely ESP), but not now.
> 
> ...


+1 on the Eastman, the shop I worked for sold those too and nobody could believe they were made in China. They're a great example of how a company with great QC and building techniques can thrive as an import. When it's all done right, that is


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 25, 2021)

RLG167 said:


> I agree I don't like the X series either, but this is about the Pro Series, it's supposed to be the higher end import they make. Just wondering if the quality suffers from them moving from Indonesia to China


somehow I seriously doubt the pro series is any better than the upper end of the x series (like the mirror kelly I played).


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## 73647k (Apr 25, 2021)

RLG167 said:


> +1 on the Eastman, the shop I worked for sold those too and nobody could believe they were made in China. They're a great example of how a company with great QC and building techniques can thrive as an import. When it's all done right, that is



This is it, plain and simple really. If the guitar plays well enough and I feel like there was an effort at quality I really don't care where it came from


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## sakeido (Apr 25, 2021)

I'd never buy one of their imports without playing it first, doesn't matter where it was made. Jackson's import line has been wildly inconsistent for years now. I've yet to play one I actually liked since the old Japanese factory closed... 10+ years ago?


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## Estilo (Apr 26, 2021)

sakeido said:


> I'd never buy one of their imports without playing it first, doesn't matter where it was made. Jackson's import line has been wildly inconsistent for years now. I've yet to play one I actually liked since the old Japanese factory closed... 10+ years ago?



Their custom shop is immortalized for having produced a 23-fret guitar. Why would the imports be consistent?


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Apr 26, 2021)

73647k said:


> It sure does when you purchase new and then decide somewhere down the road that you want to sell it. It is what it is


I was referring to build quality, not resale value.

And if you're worried about resale value in the future, you should ALWAYS buy used anyway. Never new.


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## Emperoff (Apr 26, 2021)

Estilo said:


> Their custom shop is immortalized for having produced a 23-fret guitar. Why would the imports be consistent?



Not only that, they also made another one with 25 frets. No kidding! Most of those were Pablo Santana's fuckups, IIRC. They eventually fired him, and Joe Williams took his place.

With that being said I have three USA Jackson CS 7s and each of them is insanely amazing (even the one made by Pablo ). It's funny how you get immortalized by a few fuckups through a 40 year history, but that's how the internet works anyway.

I also have a MIJ Jackson SLAT3-7 that trumps anything MIK, MII or MIC I've ever played. The newer imports? Not so much. Honestly I wouldn't put money on these and rather save for an used USA model. The Deluxe B7s can be found used around 1400-1600$ and they're fantastic guitars.

BTW For those who don't know, Jackson is bringing back the MIJ line. I'm very curious about these since Jackson is very adamant about not releasing USA 7-strings, but a MIJ 7-string line would be very tempting at used prices.


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## Matt08642 (Apr 26, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I dig me some MIJ guitars and all, but Fujigen (Ibanez) has been dodgy as shit for years



Even Rich at IbanezRules will attest to sending a bunch of guitars he gets back to Ibanez because he refuses to sell them due to random issues that shouldn't exist on new MIJ instruments. Shame, since I'm still an Ibanez fan through and through.


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## soliloquy (Apr 26, 2021)

though i've had tremendous experience with japanese guitars, though its very limited experience, on the ESP facebook page, of late, a lot of people have been experiencing issues with japanese ESPs. Finish flaws, frets undone, or some other random variations that weren't there before. This could be related to COVID, or something else. 

though, again, the japanese Ibanez, shecter, dean, etc that i've played have all been great. my edwards is great. thats all the experience i have with them.

I haven't played a chinese made guitar in well over 8 years, so i'm not sure how things have changed in this period.


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## xeno99 (Apr 26, 2021)

I like my 2017 MII X-Series Scott Ian Signature.

But from what I heard QC from indonesian factories is pretty hit or miss.
Kevin Frasard made a good YT-vid on Jackson Pro Series quality last year.


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## RLG167 (Apr 26, 2021)

My question is why move to china? I'm sure it has something to do with cost, but at this point the Pro Series are really just X series guitars with an ebony fretboard. I've had a couple pro series Jacksons before and they were amazing guitars, one that really stood out was that older 3 bolt dinky they did. That guitar killed, but I'm wondering if these new ones even hold up. I recently played a Pro Series Loomis Kelly at the Axe Palace and while it had a good enough feel, it had a few dead frets and I've heard their import line is turning to shit


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## Emperoff (Apr 26, 2021)

RLG167 said:


> I've had a couple pro series Jacksons before and they were amazing guitars, one that really stood out was that older 3 bolt dinky they did. That guitar killed, but I'm wondering if these new ones even hold up.



That's because those bolt-on pros were actually made in México (at the same factory Mexican Fenders are made), which are usually well regarded.


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## xeno99 (Apr 26, 2021)

RLG167 said:


> I've heard their import line is turning to shit


I think people are overexaggerating a litte. (The same old: used to be good, now it's bad)
Yes, the older MIJ Jacksons were better. But japanese guitars are more expansive now.

But, I wouldn't buy them at MSRP. I see them get discouted fairly fast.
And don't hesitate to send 'em back.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2021)

RLG167 said:


> My question is why move to china?



Cost, simplicity of supply chain, resource availability, larger, more diverse OEM options, etc. 

If you stick to Indonesia, you're pretty much at Cortek's whim. You go to Korea and your stuck with smaller OEMs that charge more.


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## Strobe (Apr 26, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> Even Rich at IbanezRules will attest to sending a bunch of guitars he gets back to Ibanez because he refuses to sell them due to random issues that shouldn't exist on new MIJ instruments. Shame, since I'm still an Ibanez fan through and through.



This is sad to hear. I just have the one RG but it's fantastic. I may need to stop recommending people to just buy a used prestige - seems they are not what they once were.


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## JimF (Apr 26, 2021)

I'm eyeing up the Brandon Ellis Kelly and I was worried it would be standard Chinese Jackson fare, but with the price increase being caused by the "signature model" tag, and the exclusive spec (pickup, bridge, reverse headstock etc) and not based on quality.


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## RLG167 (Apr 26, 2021)

JimF said:


> I'm eyeing up the Brandon Ellis Kelly and I was worried it would be standard Chinese Jackson fare, but with the price increase being caused by the "signature model" tag, and the exclusive spec (pickup, bridge, reverse headstock etc) and not based on quality.


I played a Loomis Kelly a few months ago that I liked but it had some dead frets. And I believe that was an Indo model. No telling how the Chinese ones are gonna be until some people start getting them


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## trem licking (Apr 26, 2021)

Pretty sure Fujigen fixed the issues that passed through Rich. I may have not have had as many guitars through my hands as Max and others, but my small amount i have bought and seen in stores tells me enough. If im buying blind, my bets are still on japanese/US guitars


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## groverj3 (Apr 26, 2021)

Isn't just Jackson. Most brands are sourcing from multiple factories in the same series or "level."

I've only played a couple of the Chacksons, and those didn't have any issues. They seemed to be a bit better than the early Indo stuff they had. However, I have not spent a lot of time scrutinizing more recent MII and MIC Jacksons, or guitars in general.


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## Crumbling (Apr 26, 2021)

FMIC has a factory set out (only Jackson so far, time will tell) for these premium finishes, presumably to keep the labour cost lower, since obviously crackles/mirrors/etc... would take more time and money than a standard solid colour finish. The regular stuffs are still made in Indonesia, mostly Samick, though some painted neck models are Cortek. They've been making guitars there for over a year now, ever since the crackle/swirls started coming out last NAMM. The only Pro Series from that line was the Rainbow Crackle Soloist though

For what its worth, the small numbers of China Jackson I've played has been better made than the Indo one. I was really tempted to walk out the door with a shattered Kelly.



RLG167 said:


> I played a Loomis Kelly a few months ago that I liked but it had some dead frets. And I believe that was an Indo model. No telling how the Chinese ones are gonna be until some people start getting them



Loomis Kelly is Korea, WMI. Same with the Ashes Dinky Modern with the weird glowy Green/Blue/Red/etc... finish.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2021)

trem licking said:


> Pretty sure Fujigen fixed the issues that passed through Rich. I may have not have had as many guitars through my hands as Max and others, but my small amount i have bought and seen in stores tells me enough. If im buying blind, my bets are still on japanese/US guitars



Nah, maple boarded stuff is still a toss up as far as fretwork, and the Genesis line still suffers from NJFCs regularly. 

The JSs are finally the right shape again though.


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## ramses (Apr 26, 2021)

Estilo said:


> Their custom shop is immortalized for having produced a 23-fret guitar. Why would the imports be consistent?




The Abacus will prevent this from happening from now on?


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## Dooky (Apr 26, 2021)

There are a couple of videos on YouTube at the moment showing off the new Jackson RR24 crackle guitars (made in China).
All the videos have shown nil QC or finish issues thus far and reports have been very positive.


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## trem licking (Apr 27, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nah, maple boarded stuff is still a toss up as far as fretwork, and the Genesis line still suffers from NJFCs regularly.
> 
> The JSs are finally the right shape again though.


The maple board fretwork thing is weird, for sure, but i wouldn't say neck joint cracks is a quality thing, that's inherent in the design itself. Lotta block joints get those eventually... Another reason why the block joint blows haha. What was up with the JS? don't know about those. But these issues are still a walk in the park compared to the crap I've seen ha


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 27, 2021)

trem licking said:


> The maple board fretwork thing is weird, for sure, but i wouldn't say neck joint cracks is a quality thing, that's inherent in the design itself. Lotta block joints get those eventually... Another reason why the block joint blows haha. What was up with the JS? don't know about those. But these issues are still a walk in the park compared to the crap I've seen ha



They crack because they're rushed through the door, at least on brand new guitars. Older stuff will crack sometimes after years of wood moving and the finish naturally becoming more brittle. Out of the box is different.


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## trem licking (Apr 27, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They crack because they're rushed through the door, at least on brand new guitars. Older stuff will crack sometimes after years of wood moving and the finish naturally becoming more brittle. Out of the box is different.


Lot of the times, those "finish cracks" are actually wood cracks. Theres too much flex in the design. Lower profile bolt ons don't have as much of this issue, such as sculpted AANJ type joints


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 27, 2021)

trem licking said:


> Lot of the times, those "finish cracks" are actually wood cracks. Theres too much flex in the design. Lower profile bolt ons don't have as much of this issue, such as sculpted AANJ type joints



I've probably worked on thousands of instruments at this point, and NJFCs are very, very seldom in the wood. Practically never.

Speaking about new guitars of course.

Almost all neck joints will have cracks in the finish form eventually, Ibanez specifically, the tilt joints were the best as far as down the road, and AANJ still get them plenty. More material means less flex, not more. The AANJ looks cool and sleek, but functionally, it's no better a join. 

If you buy a new guitar with legit cracks in the neck pocket, send it back.


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## trem licking (Apr 27, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've probably worked on thousands of instruments at this point, and NJFCs are very, very seldom in the wood. Practically never.
> 
> Speaking about new guitars of course.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity, have you actually stripped down the paint to see that the cracks are just finish deep? Genuine curiosity. But either way, the cracks aren't a huge deal functionally and of course I'd send back a new guitar with them haha


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 27, 2021)

trem licking said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you actually stripped down the paint to see that the cracks are just finish deep? Genuine curiosity. But either way, the cracks aren't a huge deal functionally and of course I'd send back a new guitar with them haha



Stripped not as much, but I've done it at the customer's request. Usually just pulling the neck and cleaning up some of the overspray in there. 

It's still a quality defect on a new guitar. Not sure why that was ever in question.


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## Bordcla (Apr 27, 2021)

Yet more proof that buying is more of an emotional process than a rational process.

Many believe that country of origin, like brand, makes something inherently better than something else. If your brain is wired that way, you won't be satisfied even by a better guitar made in a less prestigious location, because you'll always wonder, always regret.

Psychology is a bitch like that, because the rational thing to do is evaluate a guitar on its own merit.


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## trem licking (Apr 27, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Stripped not as much, but I've done it at the customer's request. Usually just pulling the neck and cleaning up some of the overspray in there.
> 
> It's still a quality defect on a new guitar. Not sure why that was ever in question.


Agree, finish cracks deserve a sendback, but in the grand scheme of things it's a very minor quality issue as opposed to say oh fucked up trem post holes/truss rod issues/things routed in the wrong spot haha... These are things i would return new or used, where as neck pocket cracks i could excuse on a used item if they aren't extreme. All this to say, i have more confidence in a factory that spits out duds with minor issues than factories that let hugely wonky instruments out the door


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## JimF (Apr 27, 2021)

On a used instrument I could stomach neck pocket cracks. But on something brand new I would be worrying what would go wrong down the line, however unlikely that may be.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 27, 2021)

trem licking said:


> Agree, finish cracks deserve a sendback, but in the grand scheme of things it's a very minor quality issue as opposed to say oh fucked up trem post holes/truss rod issues/things routed in the wrong spot haha... These are things i would return new or used, where as neck pocket cracks i could excuse on a used item if they aren't extreme. All this to say, i have more confidence in a factory that spits out duds with minor issues than factories that let hugely wonky instruments out the door



If they can't even get the finish right, what else did they rush? 

I've also seen plenty of wonky trem bushings.


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## RLG167 (Apr 27, 2021)

Bordcla said:


> Yet more proof that buying is more of an emotional process than a rational process.
> 
> Many believe that country of origin, like brand, makes something inherently better than something else. If your brain is wired that way, you won't be satisfied even by a better guitar made in a less prestigious location, because you'll always wonder, always regret.
> 
> Psychology is a bitch like that, because the rational thing to do is evaluate a guitar on its own merit.


I will say, going back to the Eastmans, being a tech in a music store and seeing just about any type of guitar come across my bench, there's definitely a difference between a "higher end" import model like a Korean schecter or Indo Ibanez and a truly well built machine like the Eastman stuff. So while I think some is psychological, yes, I also believe if it's a truly quality instrument you can tell. We had people coming in buying an Eastman over a Gibson a couple times a week, they're THAT good and 100% made in China, but my ACTUAL luthiers


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## soliloquy (Apr 27, 2021)

Dooky said:


> There are a couple of videos on YouTube at the moment showing off the new Jackson RR24 crackle guitars (made in China).
> All the videos have shown nil QC or finish issues thus far and reports have been very positive.



I dont fully trust those youtube reviews. Even when they say that these reviews have no bias, the issue i have with them is that companies would send their fancy guitars to the youtube personalities to review and send back. But when third party customers, such as us, buy these guitars, all we come across are QC issues. A good example being 10S guitars. I want to really give them a shot as youtube personalities LOVE their guitars. 

yet, if you read the comments, you'll quickly realize that customers who bought them didn't have the same experience. 

now, it could be that the youtube personalities may very well show no bias, and they happen to get a great piece of gear, or perhaps their opinions were bought out, or they just have low expectations and they will be equally happy with a $50 guitar as they would with a $5,000 guitar? 

either way...take those reviews with a grain of salt.


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## trem licking (Apr 27, 2021)

soliloquy said:


> I dont fully trust those youtube reviews. Even when they say that these reviews have no bias, the issue i have with them is that companies would send their fancy guitars to the youtube personalities to review and send back. But when third party customers, such as us, buy these guitars, all we come across are QC issues. A good example being 10S guitars. I want to really give them a shot as youtube personalities LOVE their guitars.
> 
> yet, if you read the comments, you'll quickly realize that customers who bought them didn't have the same experience.
> 
> ...


And on top of this, a lot of people dont know where to look when they receive a guitar to know if it's "good" or not. I mean, some issues may not actually appear initially (cracks in trem routes, stripped screws, etc) but may present a problem later in. I do a near complete teardown of the guitar hunting for big *hidden* issues, a lot of people dont do that


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## soliloquy (Apr 27, 2021)

trem licking said:


> And on top of this, a lot of people dont know where to look when they receive a guitar to know if it's "good" or not. I mean, some issues may not actually appear initially (cracks in trem routes, stripped screws, etc) but may present a problem later in. I do a near complete teardown of the guitar hunting for big *hidden* issues, a lot of people dont do that



also to note, things like Andertons are not showing reviews. They are showing demos. Most youtubers, technically speaking, show demos. 
I mean, if a company like Andertons shows an actual review, and says 'dont by guitar X because its piece of crap', and they sell those through their inventory...who exactly will buy them? As such, they will always say 'this is nice, but that is nicer' not 'this is crap, and that is amazing'. 

But yes, i fully agree with you on this. Not enough emphasis is given on certain things, that, to me, are super important. For example, whenever i pick up a guitar, if it is not resonanting/vibrating a certain way in my hands, i will, almost immediately put it back. youtubers aren't sensitive to that. 'ITS A PRETTY TOP!' is often times what they care fore. 

or certain features may not appeal to one player, and it would to another. I, for example, am VERY picky about maple necks. I would almost always prefer mahogany over maple 99% of the time. Some wont care. Some dont even care to mention if they can feel something about the neck that 'shouldn't' feel that way.


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## Nag (Apr 28, 2021)

Dunno if it's been mentioned already cause I'm a lazy reader but... on the Jackson website, you can click the pic of a guitar and scroll through some more pics, including the back of the headstock. Usually, on the back of the headstock, they mention the country of manufacture, but on some pics that said "made in China" that's actually been photoshopped out. Shady...


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## xeno99 (Apr 28, 2021)




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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 28, 2021)

Nag said:


> Dunno if it's been mentioned already cause I'm a lazy reader but... on the Jackson website, you can click the pic of a guitar and scroll through some more pics, including the back of the headstock. Usually, on the back of the headstock, they mention the country of manufacture, but on some pics that said "made in China" that's actually been photoshopped out. Shady...



Reverb ads are usually pretty good for checking country of origin, too.


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## MSS (Apr 28, 2021)

I have 2 of these - both Indos. The fit, finish and playability is pretty good on these. I did have them plek’d on purchase at Sweetwater though. One of the 5 way switches died. The electronics are typical quality in this price point IMO.


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## xeno99 (Apr 28, 2021)

Electronic on my Indo-Jackson looked just careless with big solder balls. Never had any problem though.

My Solar and LTD(both also Indo) look way more professional electronic-wise.


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## soliloquy (Apr 28, 2021)

Nag said:


> Dunno if it's been mentioned already cause I'm a lazy reader but... on the Jackson website, you can click the pic of a guitar and scroll through some more pics, including the back of the headstock. Usually, on the back of the headstock, they mention the country of manufacture, but on some pics that said "made in China" that's actually been photoshopped out. Shady...



not always accurate. Not sure about Jackson, but ESP's website has certain guitars made in Origin Y, but when the guitars are found in stores, they are made in Origin X instead. As in, picture shows Korea, but the guitars at stores are from Indonesia, or Vietnam, or China


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## Nag (Apr 28, 2021)

My guess is they don't have certain models built exclusively in China and other models built exclusively in Indonesia, and rather : certain models are built in both countries. In which case, I'd still look for an Indo built one. The Pro series is guitars worth around 1 grand, MIC guitars don't have that good of a reputation yet IMO that I'll dare to drop that kind of cash on one.


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## mastapimp (Apr 28, 2021)

xeno99 said:


>



Since it's a bolt-on, the origin is stamped into the heel plate. You can see it's crafted in China in the other pictures.


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## Crumbling (Apr 28, 2021)

Nag said:


> Dunno if it's been mentioned already cause I'm a lazy reader but... on the Jackson website, you can click the pic of a guitar and scroll through some more pics, including the back of the headstock. Usually, on the back of the headstock, they mention the country of manufacture, but on some pics that said "made in China" that's actually been photoshopped out. Shady...



They've been photoshopping out those for most new models, nothing new. People didn't know the Dinky Modern and Jeff Loomis Kelly were WMI/Korea until they came out in the store. The Wildcards as well, until they forgot to photoshop it out of one of the picture.



Nag said:


> My guess is they don't have certain models built exclusively in China and other models built exclusively in Indonesia, and rather : certain models are built in both countries. In which case, I'd still look for an Indo built one. The Pro series is guitars worth around 1 grand, MIC guitars don't have that good of a reputation yet IMO that I'll dare to drop that kind of cash on one.



No, that's exactly what they're doing. All graphic finishes are made in China, regular finishes are still Indonesia.



Edika said:


> To my understanding the crackle and mirror pro Jacksons are made in China and the rest are Indo made. The Brandon Ellis though seems to be made in Indonesia, even though it has a crackle finish.



Has anyone gotten one yet to check? No physical store around me, or in Australia as a whole, seems to have them in yet (and most of the new stuffs are trickling in), and Reverb listings are still all stock photos


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## JimF (Apr 29, 2021)

Regarding getting your hands on an Ellis, I was searching around online and the most common due date that was coming up online was July. Unless one site just put an arbitrary number of weeks on their due date, and the other websites copied.


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## mogar (Apr 30, 2021)

I don't know if I just got lucky or what, but I bought a JS Rhoads back in January for a project and the thing plays really frickin good. Like "I wanna buy 3 more" good.

So if this guitar is any indication of what their chinese factory can do, I'd have zero issues ordering a pro series from them.


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## JimF (Apr 30, 2021)

I realised I could find out by emailing Jackson directly!
Had it confirmed:


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## DiezelMonster (Apr 30, 2021)

I just got a blue crackle PRO RR in at the store I work at and it's pretty freakin flawless.

We had a Loomis Kelly and it was unreal, sold it in an hour. Would love to get another for the store.

*I work at a retail store in Canada by the way


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## jahosy (Apr 30, 2021)

DiezelMonster said:


> I just got a blue crackle PRO RR in at the store I work at and it's pretty freakin flawless.
> 
> We had a Loomis Kelly and it was unreal, sold it in an hour. Would love to get another for the store.
> 
> *I work at a retail store in Canada by the way


Good to know. Am interested in one of those crackles Pro as well might try them out in store. I guess now the big question is their consistency in QC. 

The JL Kellys (along with the recent wildcards series) are made in Korea. That's a stellar looking guitar as well! Am hoping they'll consider releasing the JL soloist 7 (the one he teased months ago) in pro series hhaha


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## Crumbling (Apr 30, 2021)

jahosy said:


> Good to know. Am interested in one of those crackles Pro as well might try them out in store. I guess now the big question is their consistency in QC.
> 
> The JL Kellys (along with the recent wildcards series) are made in Korea. That's a stellar looking guitar as well! Am hoping they'll consider releasing the JL soloist 7 (the one he teased months ago) in pro series hhaha


The ones at my local store here in Brissy felt pretty good, but 2800/3k AUD is too much, you can get a crackle Ormsby for 2k shipped with hard case, and the USA graphics hovers around there used. There's a Lightning Sky Rhoads that popped up on Gumtree today for 2400, 10/10 times I'd buy that no matter how well the Crackles plays, purely since I can resell it for at least that much. The Bolted Steel KE-2 in Perth last year took like 8 months to sell as well, was listed at 2500.


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## jahosy (Apr 30, 2021)

Crumbling said:


> The ones at my local store here in Brissy felt pretty good, but 2800/3k AUD is too much, you can get a crackle Ormsby for 2k shipped with hard case, and the USA graphics hovers around there used. There's a Lightning Sky Rhoads that popped up on Gumtree today for 2400, 10/10 times I'd buy that no matter how well the Crackles plays, purely since I can resell it for at least that much. The Bolted Steel KE-2 in Perth last year took like 8 months to sell as well, was listed at 2500.


wow didn't know they cost this much for those crackles. paid around that price for the wildcard sl27 but that's with a custom shop spec, and made in Korea. thought the pros would be below aud$2k. 

Definitely a used (cheaper) USA Jackson there.


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## Crumbling (May 1, 2021)

jahosy said:


> wow didn't know they cost this much for those crackles. paid around that price for the wildcard sl27 but that's with a custom shop spec, and made in Korea. thought the pros would be below aud$2k.
> 
> Definitely a used (cheaper) USA Jackson there.


The crackles are like 1400 USD street, RRP is 3100 and store listing is 2800. The standard Pro Series at 1700-1800 are 1k USD street.


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## S920e (Jun 26, 2021)

Well, it's official. Fender has, like they and Gibson always do, ruined another legendary brand by being cheap twats. I have now become an Ibanez only guy all because of the the fall of quality after we stopped getting MIJ Pro Jacksons. The person that compared the Jackson X Series to the Pro Series is not far off now, as the Chacksons are absolute shit. I was stoked for the rainbow crackle and ordered one after a decade of not buying a Jackson Pro after they stopped using Alder in any Pro series without a maple fingerboard. I took a shot on China vs Indonesia and Just no. I went through 3 before I got my moolah back and bought an RG1070PBZ Premium. They are turds, My plywood Kamen GTX Model 33 (black to hot pink crackle) played better and it's a piece of shit with a cool paint job that makes nice glam wall art. I'll will go over the first one I received. The finish on the Chackson was absolute garbage with overspray on the raw part of the neck. The fret ends looked and felt like shit, with half of them extending past the fingerboard on bass side so my thumb would snag on them, I even ripped it open one day and that was where I was officially done with that one. The tone was mediocre at best, I am a huge fan of the old School MIJ Jacksons that had decent pots, capacitors, and jacks. These are garbage pots, caps, and jacks. Good ol' ROHS shit that cant make it any where our UL listing quality. I had to use so much gate to quiet it that it chopped higher notes and harmonics completely out of the equation when I wanted get the JB growling like lynch. I opened it up and sure enough, barely any shielding in the control cavity and a poorly attached ground point. The psuedo-floyd would knock my E out of tune after every yank or dive leaving me to leave the nut unlocked on the E and A strings. I gave it some love in it's orifices with some shielding, a brass block and noiseless springs then the volume pot decided it had had enough of smooth operation and began to crackle like hell. I was over it. It went back. The second one was not so bad as far as noise, but the finish and frets were pretty much the same BS. Number three was right back to the noise with an added twist.....literally. I kept getting a buzz on the high e at the 8th fret up to the 12th. I tried adjusting my neck relief, I checked the seating of the saddles and the groove in the nut nd nothing would take it out. Finally I took it to a friend who is a pretty decent luthier and he said to toss the thing out. There was enough twist in the neck that attempting to take it out would have probably broke the scarf joint. Which, as it turns out, was where the problem was. That was the end for number three. Do yourselves a solid, Spend a couple hundred extra dollars and go Ibanez Premium. I'm not advertising, I'm not endorsed. I pay for all of my gear. I have a prototype of the S920e, an RGS1070PBZ, an S1070PBZ, and an Axion S671ALB (the aurora burst is a KILLER finish). Not a single of these guitars has fallen short on their playability or quality. They have EMG, Seymour Duncan, Bare Knuckle, and DiMarzio Pups, 24 frets on wizard necks and all but the axion have hemisperical fret end treatment FROM THE FACTORY, also The S920 and axion have crygenically treated frets while the PLB models have stainless. Switchcraft pots and jacks were standard on all of them. I paid between a thousand and fourteen hundred bcks each and I will never get rid of any of them. If Fender wises up and goes back to mexican or korean manufacturing facilities, I will buy a pro jackson again. But the chinese and their garbage product, which may be intentional to ruin the reputation of American brands, can get fucked. What I don't get is that I have never had any bad Yamaha gear over the years but if it has an American name, they take a great big shit on QC standards and that pisses me off. You want to spend some coin on a good guitar, go straight to the custom shop and NOT THROUGH A BROKER like GC or Sam Ash. They mark them way the fuck up. I have a USA custom Soloist that I had built as a neck through version of my 2008 MIJ Crimson Swirl Dinky with a JB in the bridge, a cool rails in the middle, and a li'l screamin demon in the neck, plus a reverse headstock, locking tuners, abalone sharkfin inlays(another thing now missing from pro series guitars) and the 'super soloist' neck profile, like a USA Mick Thompson. I paid from Factory, to my door 3,400 bucks whereas when I got an estimate through Guitar Center, they wanted almost 6,000 dollars.....If people want good gear anymore, it's back to the days of having to pay out the nose or deal with a Japanese Company ESP, Ibanez, Etc. Hell, My Comparison TAT wasn't even that high and it's exquisite piece of gear....Just heed my warning. The days of gear from the mid 90's and into the late 2000's, where a lot of off the shelf guitars were a steal, are gone. Our American companies have stopped giving a fuck about budget consumers and their QC in foreign manufacturing facilities. All they care about is selling their 'Custom Shop' Models that are STILL pattern built shitboxes. The only way to go if you want Jackson, Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, etc... is to actually commision a custom build....Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but that is how it is now. Like I said, the days of nice gear for all budgets are over. Schecter is doing pretty well for axes in the 1000+ range, Washburn has the Parellaxes which are killer, and Gibson is (for once) going the right way wwith Kramer....There are options, but they're getting further and fewer or they're just not the brands that we we used to being the dominators for metal guitarists. Sorry for the rant, I am baked and I LOVE sativa. lol


----------



## Zhysick (Jun 26, 2021)

Dude... paragraphs... I'm not reading that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jun 26, 2021)

tl;dr


----------



## guitaardvark (Jun 26, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> tl;dr



TL;DR:



S920e said:


> Sorry for the rant, I am baked and I LOVE sativa. lol


----------



## narad (Jun 26, 2021)

S920e said:


> The days of gear from the mid 90's and into the late 2000's, where a lot of off the shelf guitars were a steal, are gone.



That's not what I remember about the budget lines of the 90s and 2000s... And maybe looking back at some nice Jackson custom shop in the 90s for $2-2.5k seems like a steal, but that's like $4-5K adjusted for inflation to now.


----------



## mbardu (Jun 27, 2021)

S920e said:


> Well, it's official. Fender has, like they and Gibson always do, ruined another legendary brand by being cheap twats. I have now become an Ibanez only guy all because of the the fall of quality after we stopped getting MIJ Pro Jacksons. The person that compared the Jackson X Series to the Pro Series is not far off now, as the Chacksons are absolute shit. I was stoked for the rainbow crackle and ordered one after a decade of not buying a Jackson Pro after they stopped using Alder in any Pro series without a maple fingerboard. I took a shot on China vs Indonesia and Just no. I went through 3 before I got my moolah back and bought an RG1070PBZ Premium. They are turds, My plywood Kamen GTX Model 33 (black to hot pink crackle) played better and it's a piece of shit with a cool paint job that makes nice glam wall art. I'll will go over the first one I received. The finish on the Chackson was absolute garbage with overspray on the raw part of the neck. The fret ends looked and felt like shit, with half of them extending past the fingerboard on bass side so my thumb would snag on them, I even ripped it open one day and that was where I was officially done with that one. The tone was mediocre at best, I am a huge fan of the old School MIJ Jacksons that had decent pots, capacitors, and jacks. These are garbage pots, caps, and jacks. Good ol' ROHS shit that cant make it any where our UL listing quality. I had to use so much gate to quiet it that it chopped higher notes and harmonics completely out of the equation when I wanted get the JB growling like lynch. I opened it up and sure enough, barely any shielding in the control cavity and a poorly attached ground point. The psuedo-floyd would knock my E out of tune after every yank or dive leaving me to leave the nut unlocked on the E and A strings. I gave it some love in it's orifices with some shielding, a brass block and noiseless springs then the volume pot decided it had had enough of smooth operation and began to crackle like hell. I was over it. It went back. The second one was not so bad as far as noise, but the finish and frets were pretty much the same BS. Number three was right back to the noise with an added twist.....literally. I kept getting a buzz on the high e at the 8th fret up to the 12th. I tried adjusting my neck relief, I checked the seating of the saddles and the groove in the nut nd nothing would take it out. Finally I took it to a friend who is a pretty decent luthier and he said to toss the thing out. There was enough twist in the neck that attempting to take it out would have probably broke the scarf joint. Which, as it turns out, was where the problem was. That was the end for number three. Do yourselves a solid, Spend a couple hundred extra dollars and go Ibanez Premium. I'm not advertising, I'm not endorsed. I pay for all of my gear. I have a prototype of the S920e, an RGS1070PBZ, an S1070PBZ, and an Axion S671ALB (the aurora burst is a KILLER finish). Not a single of these guitars has fallen short on their playability or quality. They have EMG, Seymour Duncan, Bare Knuckle, and DiMarzio Pups, 24 frets on wizard necks and all but the axion have hemisperical fret end treatment FROM THE FACTORY, also The S920 and axion have crygenically treated frets while the PLB models have stainless. Switchcraft pots and jacks were standard on all of them. I paid between a thousand and fourteen hundred bcks each and I will never get rid of any of them. If Fender wises up and goes back to mexican or korean manufacturing facilities, I will buy a pro jackson again. But the chinese and their garbage product, which may be intentional to ruin the reputation of American brands, can get fucked. What I don't get is that I have never had any bad Yamaha gear over the years but if it has an American name, they take a great big shit on QC standards and that pisses me off. You want to spend some coin on a good guitar, go straight to the custom shop and NOT THROUGH A BROKER like GC or Sam Ash. They mark them way the fuck up. I have a USA custom Soloist that I had built as a neck through version of my 2008 MIJ Crimson Swirl Dinky with a JB in the bridge, a cool rails in the middle, and a li'l screamin demon in the neck, plus a reverse headstock, locking tuners, abalone sharkfin inlays(another thing now missing from pro series guitars) and the 'super soloist' neck profile, like a USA Mick Thompson. I paid from Factory, to my door 3,400 bucks whereas when I got an estimate through Guitar Center, they wanted almost 6,000 dollars.....If people want good gear anymore, it's back to the days of having to pay out the nose or deal with a Japanese Company ESP, Ibanez, Etc. Hell, My Comparison TAT wasn't even that high and it's exquisite piece of gear....Just heed my warning. The days of gear from the mid 90's and into the late 2000's, where a lot of off the shelf guitars were a steal, are gone. Our American companies have stopped giving a fuck about budget consumers and their QC in foreign manufacturing facilities. All they care about is selling their 'Custom Shop' Models that are STILL pattern built shitboxes. The only way to go if you want Jackson, Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, etc... is to actually commision a custom build....Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but that is how it is now. Like I said, the days of nice gear for all budgets are over. Schecter is doing pretty well for axes in the 1000+ range, Washburn has the Parellaxes which are killer, and Gibson is (for once) going the right way wwith Kramer....There are options, but they're getting further and fewer or they're just not the brands that we we used to being the dominators for metal guitarists. Sorry for the rant, I am baked and I LOVE sativa. lol



Jesus Christ....even *for me* that wall of text was tough 

That said, you are making a pretty big mountain of one bad experience from one model from China. 
It's very possible that that specific series of model/finish is particularly bad, and it wouldn't be a first for some Jackson import series.
But it's a pretty big generalization to throw all of Jackson and FMIC (and the rest of the industry...) based on that experience. 
Btw FMIC does have a lot of excellent Korean and Mexican and Indonesian models (even back with some Japanese ones now too).

Add to that your positive thoughts about Ibanez Premium (I concurr, especially the stainless steel fretted ones), Schecter etc etc and I don't get your last point.
You can get a ton of great import instruments today from most brands, FMIC included. Way better than you would have had 20 years ago.
Sure they're more expensive in _absolute _prices....but that's just what happens with inflation on pretty much everything.
What used to be the rule (entry and mid-level instruments were often bad with only few exceptions) has been flipped. 
Now it's the exception to find truly bad guitars, even for fairly modest prices. 
The fact you did find the exception on that crackle - I do thank you for that though. 
I was curious about trying them despite the China origin, but now I won't bother


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## Marked Man (Jun 27, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> tl;dr



Would consider reading if teh paragraphs.


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## Marked Man (Jun 27, 2021)

I'm not even convinced that Indonesia has their act together enough for the world of $1000+ guitars. So I'm sure as hell not in line to pay the same cost for a model made in China (not even considering China's aggressive stance on the world stage and undoubted plans to knock the U.S. down a few notches.  ).

Korea has proven themselves fully for their market segment, although not the top yet.


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## Zhysick (Jun 27, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> I'm not even convinced that Indonesia has their act together enough for the world of $1000+ guitars. So I'm sure as hell not in line to pay the same cost for a model made in China (not even considering China's aggressive stance on the world stage and undoubted plans to knock the U.S. down a few notches.  ).
> 
> Korea has proven themselves fully for their market segment, although not the top yet.



Indonesia is totally up there, I mean, Yamaha Indo made guitars are amazing and has been out there for several years, sure, Yamaha 600 series are not that expensive, but a Solar made in Indonesia for 1000$ with evertune and SS frets is very difficult to beat in specs and price without considering the country where it's made and if it is well done where's the issue? Mine is perfectly done, just a small blemish on the finish, like 1mm size... I have seen Gibson's and MIA Fenders much worse in the finish department and the fit also worse, not to say about Ibanez Prestige not being really prestigious unless you go up to the 2000$ mark...


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## Marked Man (Jun 27, 2021)

Zhysick said:


> Indonesia is totally up there, I mean, Yamaha Indo made guitars are amazing and has been out there for several years, sure, Yamaha 600 series are not that expensive, but a Solar made in Indonesia for 1000$ with evertune and SS frets is very difficult to beat in specs and price without considering the country where it's made and if it is well done where's the issue? Mine is perfectly done, just a small blemish on the finish, like 1mm size... I have seen Gibson's and MIA Fenders much worse in the finish department and the fit also worse, not to say about Ibanez Prestige not being really prestigious unless you go up to the 2000$ mark...



I base my view on a recent MII Jackson Soloist Pro I bought. Or rather, two of them bought in the last 2 years. One with a natural poplar burl top and zero issues. The second one is theoretically the same same other than having a flamed maple emerald top, although I had to have the sharp fret edges filed. They were quite VICIOUS from the factory! Also doesn't have near the same level of mojo as the first, and the neck profile seems slimmer (a bit too slim compared to a traditional Soloist) although it is still quite fun to play. But the consistency isn't there yet...


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## nickgray (Jun 27, 2021)

Zhysick said:


> but a Solar made in Indonesia for 1000$ with evertune and SS frets is very difficult to beat in specs and price



Aren't they priced in Euros? They're between 1000-1300 EUR, only a handful of models go for 1000 EUR. They also come with plastic nuts, small scratchy pots (I even remember some Ola's video where he was playing a Solar that had scratchy af pots), OEM tuners, and mostly with OEM pickups. Price wise they're pretty similar to LTDs with Evertunes, and LTDs will have SS frets soon as well, if SS is a deal breaker.

I just don't see how they're difficult to beat in price. They're okay guitars for an okay price. They do have a lot of Evertune options, I'll give them that.


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## cip 123 (Jun 27, 2021)

There are bad Chinese factories and there are good Chinese factories. Same goes for bad American factories and good American factories. 

It is ultimately up to the brand how they let their guitars arrive at the stores, the factories will generally do what they are paid for. 

Jackson pro series has been bad far longer than it's been in China imo. I've tried plenty of unplayable Indo Jacksons, and plenty of nice playing Chinese guitars. 

If your argument is that Chinese factories "make American brands bad to tarnish their reputation" I'm gonna assume you have more problems than just getting a bad guitar.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Jun 27, 2021)

cip 123 said:


> If your argument is that Chinese factories "make American brands bad to tarnish their reputation" I'm gonna assume you have more problems than just getting a bad guitar.


 Exactly.

No doubt that one or more posts on this thread are mere projections of conservative political views than merited criticism of the product itself.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Aren't they priced in Euros? They're between 1000-1300 EUR, only a handful of models go for 1000 EUR. They also come with plastic nuts, small scratchy pots (I even remember some Ola's video where he was playing a Solar that had scratchy af pots), OEM tuners, and mostly with OEM pickups. Price wise they're pretty similar to LTDs with Evertunes, and LTDs will have SS frets soon as well, if SS is a deal breaker.
> 
> I just don't see how they're difficult to beat in price. They're okay guitars for an okay price. They do have a lot of Evertune options, I'll give them that.


To be fair, the nuts Solar use are made from graphite, not plastic.

Scratchy pots can easily happen from just being a bit dirty, which can happen with literally any potentiometer regardless of price. And the size of the potentiometer has absolutely zero bearing on quality whatsoever either. At the end of the day as long as the taper is decent and the measured value is fairly close to their rating, they're fine. I also have no problem with Solar's OEM tuners either. The set that's on my S1.7 do the job just as well as any Gotoh locking tuner I've ever bought.


----------



## Zhysick (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Aren't they priced in Euros? They're between 1000-1300 EUR, only a handful of models go for 1000 EUR. They also come with plastic nuts, small scratchy pots (I even remember some Ola's video where he was playing a Solar that had scratchy af pots), OEM tuners, and mostly with OEM pickups. Price wise they're pretty similar to LTDs with Evertunes, and LTDs will have SS frets soon as well, if SS is a deal breaker.
> 
> I just don't see how they're difficult to beat in price. They're okay guitars for an okay price. They do have a lot of Evertune options, I'll give them that.




Well, yes, they are priced in euros so you are right about the price bracket. On the other hand, LTD's with SS frets are about 200€ more than "older" LTDs without SS frets and those are on the "expensive" side of the Solar guitars, I mean, you can get a Solar with Evertune and SS for 1000€ while an LTD with SS and ET is about 1450€ so there is a big gap... at least here in EU.

Scratchy pots... well, none that I have known of came with scratchy pots new, like none of my guitars, but with time all of them can get scratchy like a Gibson Les Paul Standard I had for a while (ok, that guitar was from 1998 but you know, that's what happens with corrosion).

OEM tuners? Yes, and locking, lke LTDs, OEM pickups? Yes, that's absolutely true even if they sound good those are OEM korean made pickups. LTDs come also stock with OEM tuners, none locking in a lot of cases (like those guitars with ET bridges, if there is a ET bridge the tuners are normal, not locking...) and lots of new LTDs are made at Indonesia (yes, 1000 series and Black Metal series, not all of them tho) so, considering the same country... I thing 450€ of difference with "the same specs" is pretty difficult to beat


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## Zhysick (Jun 27, 2021)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> To be fair, the nuts Solar use are made from graphite, not plastic.
> 
> Scratchy pots can easily happen from just being a bit dirty, which can happen with literally any potentiometer regardless of price. And the size of the potentiometer has absolutely zero bearing on quality whatsoever either. At the end of the day as long as the taper is decent and the measured value is fairly close to their rating, they're fine. I also have no problem with Solar's OEM tuners either. The set that's on my S1.7 do the job just as well as any Gotoh locking tuner I've ever bought.



Yep! Also, you can get "aftermarket" pickups on the Vinter line, for example, which are Fishman Fluence Moderns and those guitars are still cheaper than LTDs


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## nickgray (Jun 27, 2021)

Zhysick said:


> LTDs come also stock with OEM tuners



Afaik, 1000 always comes either with regular Grovers or with OEM Locking. Their Evertunes seem to have Grovers on them.



Zhysick said:


> I thing 450€ of difference



But you're comparing cheapest Solars vs more expensive LTDs. I just checked on Thomann's German site, they have LTDs starting from 1200 EUR currently. Most Solars on Thomann Germany go for 1100-1200 EUR. Sure, if you go specifically for the cheapest Solar and there aren't any sales on LTDs - you have a point. But in general it doesn't seem that LTDs are significantly expensive.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> At the end of the day as long as the taper is decent



I'm not complaining just to be an ass, honestly  It's just that my Solar has a useless volume taper (maybe a treble bleed mod will help, not too sure, but my LTDs seem fine volume taper wise, and their pots suck too as far as quality goes), and the tone is linear and super useless as well.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> The set that's on my S1.7 do the job just as well as any Gotoh locking tuner I've ever bought



Both Solar's tuners and LTD's locking tuners on my guitars have play in them on some knobs, and they're just not as nice and smooth as the Gotohs.

My problem with OEM stuff is that it has very little resale value, and buying a new set of pickups or tuners (especially both) for a new guitar will be considerably more expensive than trying to get one (assuming it's available) with the specs you actually want. So you either man up and pay, or you're stuck with parts on your guitar that are slightly annoying.


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## Zhysick (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Afaik, 1000 always comes either with regular Grovers or with OEM Locking. Their Evertunes seem to have Grovers on them.



Yes, you are right on that and I would clearly prefer some Gotoh as I put just a few months ago in my LTD (which is 20 years old and love it to bits, best neck ever)



nickgray said:


> But you're comparing cheapest Solars vs more expensive LTDs. I just checked on Thomann's German site, they have LTDs starting from 1200 EUR currently. Most Solars on Thomann Germany go for 1100-1200 EUR. Sure, if you go specifically for the cheapest Solar and there aren't any sales on LTDs - you have a point. But in general it doesn't seem that LTDs are significantly expensive.



No, I am comparing similarly spec'd guitars. The "previous year" MH1000ET is 1250€ and it comes with Evertune and EMG pickups, doesn't have SS frets. Cheapest Solar with ET (and with SS frets because all 1.X Solar guitars comes with SS frets) is about 1000€. None of them comes with case. Solar comes with OEM locking tuners, LTD with Grover (which are none any better than nice OEM tuners in my experience, Gotoh will be a different thing). If you check the cheapest LTD with SS frets AND ET bridge then we are talking about 1450€ which is the TE1000, still better pickups (at least aftermarket) but then we are talking about 450€ difference... you can get ANY pickups you want and even swap the tuners for some amazing Gotoh and it will still be cheaper than the LTD so if you are just checking for specs the Solar will still have a better price. Or you can check some of the "artist line" guitars or the Vinter line with aftermarket pickups (some Fishman Fluence Modern, some EMGs...) and will still be cheaper than the cheapest LTD with SS and ET.

But I have to admit one thing... I still prefer the neck carve of LTD. Funny tho the other guitarist in my band decided to buy two new guitars and as he liked the ET bridge in my solar he bought the "older" MH1000ET (the one with nickel frets) and... holy shit, the neck is insane but I am glad I ended up with the Solar (I tried to get the LTD but was out of stock at the moment) because of the shape of the body (flat top vs arched top) and because the Solar with the stock OEM korean made Duncan designed (sorry, Duncan Solar, ehem) pickups just sound better (thru my rig, of course) than the LTD with the EMGs... and I love EMGs.

OK, enough talking about LTDs and Solars I think...

Because none of them are made in China  but I was just trying to make the point that Indo guitars are as great as korean made guitars nowadays.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> I'm not complaining just to be an ass, honestly  It's just that my Solar has a useless volume taper (maybe a treble bleed mod will help, not too sure, but my LTDs seem fine volume taper wise, and their pots suck too as far as quality goes), and the tone is linear and super useless as well.


The taper of the pots on my Solar have been absolutely fine to be honest. Not sure what else to tell you. I usually consider swapping pots out on most guitars I own but I decided against it as fundamentally it was totally redundant.


> Both Solar's tuners and LTD's locking tuners on my guitars have play in them on some knobs, and they're just not as nice and smooth as the Gotohs.


Sorry you've had that experience but it's not been mine at all when comparing both the Solars and the Gotohs back to back. Again, not sure what else to tell you.


> My problem with OEM stuff is that it has very little resale value, and buying a new set of pickups or tuners (especially both) for a new guitar will be considerably more expensive than trying to get one (assuming it's available) with the specs you actually want. So you either man up and pay, or you're stuck with parts on your guitar that are slightly annoying.


 I don't think the Duncan Solar pickups are bad at all to be honest. They're extremely similar to Custom 5's and that's not a bad thing in my book whatsoever. Even if the pickups were actual Duncans, SSO would still find an excuse to complain about them because SSO goes brrrrrr

I guess it's technically true that OEM parts lack resale value. But what are you going to do? Kindly ask Solar Guitars to put non-OEM tuners on their guitars so you can make more money when you resell them used? The bigger question is how such a move would suit their business interests.


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## nickgray (Jun 27, 2021)

Zhysick said:


> But I have to admit one thing... I still prefer the neck carve of LTD



Same. Though I have a 7 string Solar vs a 6 string LTD. But I also massively prefer my 7 Ibanez over the Solar too. Solar gives me thumb pain for some reason, I tried looking at how I put my thumb at those necks, and I think I put it in such a way on Solar that there's too much force going into the thumb's joint area. LTDs and Ibby have shoulders, but the Solar is definitely a C shape, less grippy. But yeah, LTDs are comfy, I've been thinking of getting an E-II lately.



Zhysick said:


> Because none of them are made in China



I think Ibanez has (or had, last time I looked it up it was a while ago) their hollows and semi-hollows built in China, and they're fairly highly regarded apparently.

It's pointless at the end of the day, what matters is the QC. Gibson got a lot of flak in recent years, and yet they're US made. Built quality wise my Solar is actually better than the LTDs (and they're Korean). Made in China sticker is just plain infamous for a billion of different reasons, the quality of the item doesn't even matter, having that Made in China logo is like an automatic 20% (or whatever, I don't know, 50%? 80%?) reduction in quality.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> They're extremely similar to Custom 5's and that's not a bad thing in my book whatsoever



They are. And I've been thinking about replacing the Custom 5 in my other guitar too  It seems to fit the D standard tuning and that particular guitar way more though, Custom 5 has a gnarly low end on that one, but Duncan Solars are just... anemic sounding, I've no other way to describe them. They don't stand out in absolutely any way. I'm thinking of trying a Pegasus bridge on my Ibby 7, and then the Solar will inherit the Ibby's D-Activator.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Kindly ask Solar Guitars to put non-OEM tuners on their guitars



They should. They should also put smaller buttons because the spacing on that reverse headstock is tight af.



T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Even if the pickups were actual Duncans, SSO would still find an excuse to complain about them because SSO goes brrrrrr



What's even the point of a forum if you can't complain?


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> They are. And I've been thinking about replacing the Custom 5 in my other guitar too  It seems to fit the D standard tuning and that particular guitar way more though, Custom 5 has a gnarly low end on that one, but Duncan Solars are just... anemic sounding, I've no other way to describe them. They don't stand out in absolutely any way. I'm thinking of trying a Pegasus bridge on my Ibby 7, and then the Solar will inherit the Ibby's D-Activator.


'Anaemic' is the last word I'd just to describe how they sound through my 5153. Even next to my 57/66 loaded Jensen and Black Winter-loaded FGN. But you do you.


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## Zhysick (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Same. Though I have a 7 string Solar vs a 6 string LTD. But I also massively prefer my 7 Ibanez over the Solar too. Solar gives me thumb pain for some reason, I tried looking at how I put my thumb at those necks, and I think I put it in such a way on Solar that there's too much force going into the thumb's joint area. LTDs and Ibby have shoulders, but the Solar is definitely a C shape, less grippy. But yeah, LTDs are comfy, I've been thinking of getting an E-II lately.



Well, I like how C shaped is the solar neck, what I don't like is that is wider... I prefer narrow necks that's why I love LTDs and hate with passion Ibanez wizard necks. But the Solar neck despite being 43mm like an Ibanez is very comfortable but not as narrow as the LTD, but what can I do...



nickgray said:


> I think Ibanez has (or had, last time I looked it up it was a while ago) their hollows and semi-hollows built in China, and they're fairly highly regarded apparently.



Yes, I had an AS103 and it was an AMAZING guitar, made in china, best finish I have ever had in a guitar probably. The frets were INSANE, ball ends and all, great, great, great guitar with tons of wood binding and details like that. Great guitar, greatly made, sounded amazing...




nickgray said:


> They are. And I've been thinking about replacing the Custom 5 in my other guitar too  It seems to fit the D standard tuning and that particular guitar way more though, Custom 5 has a gnarly low end on that one, but Duncan Solars are just... anemic sounding, I've no other way to describe them. They don't stand out in absolutely any way. I'm thinking of trying a Pegasus bridge on my Ibby 7, and then the Solar will inherit the Ibby's D-Activator.



Well, I am not swapping them despite loving EMGs precisely because they sound BIG and THICK yet tight for fast stacatto rhythms. Can't sey they are anemic sounding... but I had a Custom5 in my Yamaha PAC611 and it was just wrong... even thou both guitars had the same neck and body woods (well, yamaha was rosewood FB while Solar is ebony) and the biggest difference being construction (neck-thru vs bolt-on) and the bridge, of course, but... I prefer by a large margin how the Duncan Solar sounds... yet I am thinking in trying an Invader for even more thickness.



nickgray said:


> They should. They should also put smaller buttons because the spacing on that reverse headstock is tight af.



Absolutely! The headstock looks amazing and compact for being an inline desing and all that but it is fucking difficult to turn the machineheads... glad with the ET you just set it up and forget


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## nickgray (Jun 27, 2021)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> 'Anaemic' is the last word I'd just to describe how they sound through my 5153. Even next to my 57/66 loaded Jensen and Black Winter-loaded FGN. But you do you.



Here's a quick test, it's Solar and then Ibby with D-Activators. Sorry, it's B-flat and B, I honestly couldn't be bothered to retune  But I promise the sound signature won't change, I tried the Solar in B, B-flat and A.

https://vocaroo.com/17lLm6xjQ8wD

D-Activators are just clearer and they have that evil treble thing going on, it's especially noticeable on palm mutes. Duncan Solars are okay, but you can hear they're just a tad muddy and they don't have any kind of cool sizzle in the high mids or bright treble or anything interesting going on for them.



Zhysick said:


> what I don't like is that is wider



You what's weird? I've measured the Solar's neck just a couple of days ago. All this time I swore that Solar was wider than the Ibanez, especially at the bridge (both are sevens). Turns out the nut width is the same, and the Solar is actually narrower. It's that damn C profile, the unreasonable chunkiness of the neck past the 12th fret, and the gigantic joint (though not as gigantic as that dude's with the Chinese Jackon... trying to keep the thread on point here ).


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## josh1 (Jun 27, 2021)

People be like "Chinese made products are terrible, I'll never own one." 
typed on an iPhone.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Jun 27, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Here's a quick test, it's Solar and then Ibby with D-Activators. Sorry, it's B-flat and B, I honestly couldn't be bothered to retune  But I promise the sound signature won't change, I tried the Solar in B, B-flat and A.
> 
> https://vocaroo.com/17lLm6xjQ8wD
> 
> D-Activators are just clearer and they have that evil treble thing going on, it's especially noticeable on palm mutes. Duncan Solars are okay, but you can hear they're just a tad muddy and they don't have any kind of cool sizzle in the high mids or bright treble or anything interesting going on for them.


Given they're so fundamentally different and are designed to fulfil different tonal niches, I'm not sure what this comparison is trying to prove conclusively. A bit of re-EQing here and there to better suit the the Solar pickups voicing and it'll sound way better than the d-activator.

That's one of the fundamental problems with comparisons like these. The best-sounding pickup is always the one that conveniently suits the EQ of the particular rig you're using. Put it in a different rig and suddenly the Solar sounds better.


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## S920e (Jun 27, 2021)

Man I opened a can, lol. Again sorry for the rant and apparently not indenting lol. It's not FMIC that I don't like, for the most part....It's that they, of all companies went to the absolute worst country on the planet for QC to make what used-to-be professional quality instruments at an intermediate price. The Pro series guitars I own that are Indonesian and Korean built have had no complaints from me because they lived up to level of build I would expect on a 1,000 dollar instrument. 
I had gone through three of the Chinese Rainbow Crackle Soloists in a row, not just one. I even invested into trying to make a comfortable axe out of one, but after it was all said and done, I had put 1,800 dollars into a guitar that was no more impressive than one of the 600 dollar X-Series guitars (if it's an EMG equipped model, no 'Duncan Designed' crap on my wall hangers). It was not worth it. 
I bought my Japanese DK2 in 2009 and has been on stage nearly every weekend since I bought it. Now it's a go-to for Glamour of the Kill, early Falling in Reverse, and Get Scared style tones. The only thing I have ever had go wrong with it in 12 years was the selector switch and when I changed it, I coil tapped the JB (mini toggle), replaced the capacitor with an orange drop, and I put a real Floyd in it. My Indonesian Mick Thompson plays like butter and is silent even on the red channel of my 5153. 
It's not FMIC, it's crappy manufacturers that get the contract to make the gear before they actually make the gear. The first ones off the line look great until the Americans are satisfied with what's coming off the line, and come back stateside after they see enough come off the line at the level of quality they EXPECT. Then they go straight to hell. Remember when the X-Series came out? Remember when the JS Line came out? They were budget gems. Now, it's truly hit or miss on whether you'll get a good one from either series.
Yes, It's true that I have a wide-on for Ibanez Premium gear. That is because it is the level of quality I expect for the price I paid. Actually, they usually surpass all expectations and I'd probably spend more on one if they raised their prices because they are truly exceptional instruments.
This ties to the last part, but I am every bit in love with my Schecters. I bought the Apocalypse when it first came out. Thin U, Extra Jumbo Stainless on Ebony, Stainless Upgraded Floyd Rose; What's not to love? The Apocalypse pups....probably great for Djent, not my cup of Redbull. I dropped a Nazgul in the bridge with a Sentient in the neck and holy shit batman. Plays and sounds phenomenal. I bought the SLS Elite FR-S when it came out. Its basically the same guitar but the neck is a Super Thin U. Already loaded with Fluence Moderns and feels exactly like my ESP-II MIINT. Both of those are guitars that I got what I paid for when I bought them. 
As Far as FMIC goes. I have two late model Charvels; a Green Tiger Satchel Signature and Snakeskin Warren DeMartini. Both are Mexican made and they are great instruments though I'm not really a fan of non-recessed tremolos. I have a Player's Strat (sunburst, maple fretboard)that I play more than my American Sambora Strat. I have no qualms with the company, nor am I really too savvy about the name on my axe, but I will call out the cutting costs bullshit when I see it and that is exactly what FMIC is doing having a pro series built in China. ESP LTD Deluxe models, Schecter, Ibanez, Kramer, hell, even Washburn (parellaxe line necks are wicked fast), are all offering super spec'd guitars under 1,500 bucks. Jackson Pro's only bragging rights are premium pickups currently.
All of that being said, I stand by my opinion and reasoning. When I start seeing something more than poorly executed fancy finishes and hot pickups on a guitar that was legit 20 years ago, I may give them another shot. I can go to a half dozen other manufacturers and can get something that actually went through solid QC with a genuine floyd or Evertune bridge, premium Pickups, some Gotoh, Schaller, or Grover tuners, Switchcraft and/or DiMarzio pots and jacks, and all kinds of killer finishes and spend the same money as I would on an outdated guitar that I can't even get with an Alder body anymore. I have some very expensive gear and some very cheap gear but everything I buy has a certain feel. I have two guitars that I go to to write with. The first brand new electric I ever bought, a Caution Yellow 2006 B.C. Rich Platinum (non FR) that cost me 349.99 brand new. It is still bone stock and nothing comes close to it for Type O Negative tones, My other is a Viking Red 2008 S5470FM Prestige, also bone stock and it was the second guitar I bought brand new, (that was before I met 'Monte' Money and I learned that he was a complete douchebag to a younger aspiring guitarist. They say never meet your heroes and they were right.) They are miles apart in price but comfortable in my hands. I have yet to have anything but a Yamaha come out of China and have a good feel and don't even get me started on the no-name Gibson, PRS, and Fender knock-offs that come from there. 
There, it's paragraphs this time. . . .


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## soliloquy (Jun 28, 2021)

slightly off topic here, but coming back to reiterate about a 'chinese' made guitar.
I hadn't touched a chinese made guitar in quiet some time. Well over 10 years. That changed over the weekend when i tried the new Epiphone custom les paul. 
cons: the binding was ever so slightly sloppy near the neck joint, and the frets were ever so slightly gritty.
pro: built really well, great ebony used on it. fret edges were smooth, and the nut was cut properly, but the string slots and the edges too. night weight. great playing and feeling. felt super solid. Strange neck by comparison to the 50's and 60's neck profile, as it seemed to have taller shoulders? but still a solid guitar. and the frets can be polished, so its not that big a concern. 

and if that is saying anything, i'm sure that the jackson MIC guitars would be absolutely stellar.


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## S920e (Jun 28, 2021)

soliloquy said:


> slightly off topic here, but coming back to reiterate about a 'chinese' made guitar.
> I hadn't touched a chinese made guitar in quiet some time. Well over 10 years. That changed over the weekend when i tried the new Epiphone custom les paul.
> cons: the binding was ever so slightly sloppy near the neck joint, and the frets were ever so slightly gritty.
> pro: built really well, great ebony used on it. fret edges were smooth, and the nut was cut properly, but the string slots and the edges too. night weight. great playing and feeling. felt super solid. Strange neck by comparison to the 50's and 60's neck profile, as it seemed to have taller shoulders? but still a solid guitar. and the frets can be polished, so its not that big a concern.
> ...


They're not. lol, Grab a JS or an X series as of late. At least they play like what you paid for them. Every once in a while a good one slips by. lol


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## cip 123 (Jun 28, 2021)

S920e said:


> Man I opened a can, lol. Again sorry for the rant and apparently not indenting lol. It's not FMIC that I don't like, for the most part....It's that they, of all companies went to the absolute worst country on the planet for QC to make what used-to-be professional quality instruments at an intermediate price. The Pro series guitars I own that are Indonesian and Korean built have had no complaints from me because they lived up to level of build I would expect on a 1,000 dollar instrument.
> I had gone through three of the Chinese Rainbow Crackle Soloists in a row, not just one. I even invested into trying to make a comfortable axe out of one, but after it was all said and done, I had put 1,800 dollars into a guitar that was no more impressive than one of the 600 dollar X-Series guitars (if it's an EMG equipped model, no 'Duncan Designed' crap on my wall hangers). It was not worth it.
> I bought my Japanese DK2 in 2009 and has been on stage nearly every weekend since I bought it. Now it's a go-to for Glamour of the Kill, early Falling in Reverse, and Get Scared style tones. The only thing I have ever had go wrong with it in 12 years was the selector switch and when I changed it, I coil tapped the JB (mini toggle), replaced the capacitor with an orange drop, and I put a real Floyd in it. My Indonesian Mick Thompson plays like butter and is silent even on the red channel of my 5153.
> It's not FMIC, it's crappy manufacturers that get the contract to make the gear before they actually make the gear. The first ones off the line look great until the Americans are satisfied with what's coming off the line, and come back stateside after they see enough come off the line at the level of quality they EXPECT. Then they go straight to hell. Remember when the X-Series came out? Remember when the JS Line came out? They were budget gems. Now, it's truly hit or miss on whether you'll get a good one from either series.
> ...


Dude, for as much as you want to call China the Worst country, and hate China. It's literally FMIC that choose to sell you guitars with poor QC.

It's not some conspiracy that China does the first batch really well then tanks. FMIC have the final say on how their guitars are released if they don't want to enforce stringent QC checks, that's on them. The manufacturers will build the guitars if they do not deliver then in most contracts they can send things back. You have this weird boner to blame China, when Jackson's QC has been in the toilet long before they went there, yet you'll also admit it's FMIC cutting costs. Which is it China or FMIC???

I can tell you about all the crappy guitars I've had from Indo and all the decent guitars I have from China. There are good factories and bad factories, there are also good ways for companies to handle QC and bad ways.

I'd get things sorted in your head, cause the way China are actually building some guitars you're going to see a lot more from them in the next 10 years.


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## groverj3 (Jun 28, 2021)

These threads, man. Maybe I'm an "apologist," and hell, I do own a bunch of Jacksons (but nothing non-US made from post 2010)

People forget, when similar stuff was made in Japan there were also a bunch of less-than-perfect guitars. These aren't still kicking around though, they've ended up in landfills by now.

But I bet the number one complaint people still have is "sharp fret ends." Just as it has always been, since time immemorial, and so shall it always be. SS.org gonna SS.org.

They'll be making guitars in a purely automated fashion on the 4th Moon of Zygryllex IV and you'll pine for the days when they were made by-hand by the mole men on Xandar III.


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## Wucan (Jun 29, 2021)

All that matters is the end product, not the origin. There's a ton of legit luthier experience in China right now, and newfound wealth that demands quality yet local guitars. OEMs can use experienced builders in the established cities and invest in QC to ensure they give their best, or they can hire a factory in a town exploding with cheap workers migrating from the countryside and beat everyone else in price. 

I have two MIC Squiers in my lineup right now... and they shit on MIM Fenders in fit and finish. If the hardware was the aftermarket good stuff they could fuck with MIAs. But for less than $400 they're guitars that won't fail - because they went through actual QC from an experienced factory, rather than an every-corner-cut Alibaba operation.


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## jl-austin (Jun 29, 2021)

I have a MIC Jackson that my brother gave me. It is some sort of Musicans friend special model or something, I don't really know. Any way, it is a very nice playing guitar. He said he gave it a good setup though. 

I would say that all manufacture's entry level guitars are pretty good these days. I wouldn't recommend them for 8 hour use everyday, but for a bedroom rocker that 99 percent of us are, they are more than good enough.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2021)

Y'all wouldn't have made it back in the day. 

Yeah, guitars are more expensive now in absolute terms, but relative to everything else, they've never been better and more accessible. 

If you think I'm wrong, go find an old Ibanez EX170. Hold it in your hands. Inspect the hardware. Now, picture paying the equivalent of $700 for it and thinking you got a great deal.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 29, 2021)

cip 123 said:


> Dude, for as much as you want to call China the Worst country, and hate China. It's literally FMIC that choose to sell you guitars with poor QC.
> 
> It's not some conspiracy that China does the first batch really well then tanks. FMIC have the final say on how their guitars are released if they don't want to enforce stringent QC checks, that's on them. The manufacturers will build the guitars if they do not deliver then in most contracts they can send things back. You have this weird boner to blame China, when Jackson's QC has been in the toilet long before they went there, yet you'll also admit it's FMIC cutting costs. Which is it China or FMIC???
> 
> ...



there's actually some grain of truth to this. I tell my friends that have contracts over here that they absolutely have to come and do re-inspection of everything on site every 6 months. 

specs and tolerances will drift. you need someone doing oversight like how Gibson runs their epiphany plant.


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## cip 123 (Jun 29, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> there's actually some grain of truth to this. I tell my friends that have contracts over here that they absolutely have to come and do re-inspection of everything on site every 6 months.
> 
> specs and tolerances will drift. you need someone doing oversight like how Gibson runs their epiphany plant.


Yea but it doesn't need to be worded as "When the Americans are happy"  just sounds loopy.

Of course companies should check how their products are being built. But if they're also letting things ship from factory to store without any QC in the middle you're asking for problems.


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## Merrekof (Jun 29, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I dig me some MIJ guitars and all, but Fujigen (Ibanez) has been dodgy as shit for years, and Caparison is even worse. The whole Japanese craftsmanship thing is something of a myth these days. They're not any better than stuff from Korea or USA or Czech or wherever anymore.
> 
> Maybe 20 or 30 years ago when they really hit thier stride, and some manufacturers have always set the bar high (namely ESP), but not now.
> 
> ...


And don't get me started on Chinese Dingwalls, they are among the finest instruments I ever had in my hands.


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## Darkscience (Jun 29, 2021)

My Jackson experience:

When I lived in Louisiana there was a mom and pop store that I would go to and they had a Jackson V with like a lightning graphic black and blue color thing going. Ugly as hell but I tried it out one day cause it was the only V and I really wanted to try a V and holy crap that guitar played amazing! I was so close to buying but never did because it was way to ugly.

Around that same time I bought a MIC Jackson guitar from guitar center remembering how that V played, I think it is a dinky, for $99 to keep at my mom's house so I can have something to play around when I visited her. I did not even test it out in the store just kind of grabbed it cause it looked nice to me. It ended being my favorite guitar for a very long time above all my ESP Standards, and my Ibanez RG560 from 89. It was just so good feeling to play, string action was what I wanted, radius, everything! Even the fit and finish was about perfect, I honestly could not figure out why it was so cheap. 

And today, my favorite guitar is the Arctic White LTD Arrow!

I am a recent convert from MIJ and USA only to I don't give a dang anymore. I even stopped having GAS for expensive instruments. Luckily I am over that phase of my life and spend most of my time now just practicing the 1 guitar I own, (I sold all the others), my Arctic White LTD! 

I have decided there is 1 or 2 nice MIJ/USA models I want to collect and one day they will pop up and I will buy them. But just for playing...ah just reminded myself of my black Squire strat a freind gave me that came with an AMP and Distortion pedal in a kit box from GC that was $99 new. Yup you guessed it, that Squire is insanely awesome! I love cheap instruments because if you can play, you can play anything period.


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## mbardu (Jun 29, 2021)

Darkscience said:


> I love cheap instruments because *if you can play*, you can play anything period.



Whelp, I'm out  ...


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## jl-austin (Jun 30, 2021)

and if you can't play (like me), an American whatever isn't gonna make me any better!


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## NCASO96 (Jun 30, 2021)

My Jackson Pro Gus G. MIC is light out. the frets, overall build of the guitar is great.
i love this guitar.

I just bought a Christian Andreu RR ... really looking forward to it!


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## Hoss632 (Jul 1, 2021)

Some of the pro series stuff is vastly over priced as well. 


Wucan said:


> All that matters is the end product, not the origin. There's a ton of legit luthier experience in China right now, and newfound wealth that demands quality yet local guitars. OEMs can use experienced builders in the established cities and invest in QC to ensure they give their best, or they can hire a factory in a town exploding with cheap workers migrating from the countryside and beat everyone else in price.
> 
> I have two MIC Squiers in my lineup right now... and they shit on MIM Fenders in fit and finish. If the hardware was the aftermarket good stuff they could fuck with MIAs. But for less than $400 they're guitars that won't fail - because they went through actual QC from an experienced factory, rather than an every-corner-cut Alibaba operation.


It's funny that you mention Squier. My cousin and I were talking the other night. He was gifted a 190 dollar squier HSS last year. He's flat said it's one of the best guitars he has. He also has a squier J5 tele which he loves as well. It's making me take a long hard look at a contemporary strat HH for myself. I love the fender neck's. and swapping in locking tuners and pick ups wouldn't be a big deal to me.


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## Emperoff (Jul 1, 2021)

Jackson non-USA lineup (since USA ones are also imports to me, lol) has been hit or miss since they stopped their japanese production around 2012. I don't expect the MIC to be any better since that would mean raising their QC standards, and I have little faith on that based on their track record...

With that being said, a friend of mine just bought a brand new japanese ESP and an korean Ltd-1001 for 1500€ and 650€ at MusicStore. There are definetely much better places to spend your guitar money than on a MIC Jackson.



S920e said:


> There, it's paragraphs this time. . . .


Where?


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## Wucan (Jul 1, 2021)

Hoss632 said:


> It's funny that you mention Squier. My cousin and I were talking the other night. He was gifted a 190 dollar squier HSS last year. He's flat said it's one of the best guitars he has. He also has a squier J5 tele which he loves as well. It's making me take a long hard look at a contemporary strat HH for myself. I love the fender neck's. and swapping in locking tuners and pick ups wouldn't be a big deal to me.



I love the look/feel of the contemporary strats but I can't justify keeping one when I already have my shredder line up. If they did one in Racing Green though I might change my mind.

In general Squier has knocked it out of the park over the course of the last decade. Some of their older Vintage Modified and Classic Vibe models go for more than their retail price second-hand. And of course there's the VM Baritone Jazzmaster which can sell for over a thousand dollars


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## Hoss632 (Jul 2, 2021)

Wucan said:


> I love the look/feel of the contemporary strats but I can't justify keeping one when I already have my shredder line up. If they did one in Racing Green though I might change my mind.
> 
> In general Squier has knocked it out of the park over the course of the last decade. Some of their older Vintage Modified and Classic Vibe models go for more than their retail price second-hand. And of course there's the VM Baritone Jazzmaster which can sell for over a thousand dollars


Yeah I'm very much considering trading my C-1 platinum and getting the metallic red contemporary strat. I'm with you in I love how the fender neck's feel. The VM baritone jazzmaster is a guitar I wish I had taken more seriously when they were new. They do some really good, especially in drop F.


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## Wucan (Jul 2, 2021)

Hoss632 said:


> Yeah I'm very much considering trading my C-1 platinum and getting the metallic red contemporary strat. I'm with you in I love how the fender neck's feel. The VM baritone jazzmaster is a guitar I wish I had taken more seriously when they were new. They do some really good, especially in drop F.



One of my local stores has had the red contemporary Squier on sale forever, if you're in Canada you're in luck!


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## drgordonfreeman (Jul 6, 2021)

cip 123 said:


> Yea but it doesn't need to be worded as "When the Americans are happy"



This is the tl;dr of every reply you've had to @S920e. Sounds like you may have your own problems there.


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## cip 123 (Jul 6, 2021)

drgordonfreeman said:


> This is the tl;dr of every reply you've had to @S920e. Sounds like you may have your own problems there.


We can TL;DR a lot of things in here to make people sound like they’ve got problems


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## Dooky (Jul 7, 2021)

Well, I own a USA Soloist from 2001 - i.e: pre-Fender takeover (So, according to some, superior to the post-Fender takeover - but I don't buy that). A MIJ Kelly from 1997 and a MIJ Dinky from 1993 (also have a MIJ Charvel So-Cal, various MIJ Ibanez' and a Gibson Les Paul Custom). But the point is, I like to think I have a bit of experience with Jacksons. I have Brandon Ellis Kelly (made in China) on the way that should hopefully be arriving this month. I will be interested to see if it is total rubbish like so many of the guitar snobs are assuming. Time will tell!


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## xeno99 (Oct 11, 2021)

To make confusion complete there is now a korean Series for one UK dealer: https://www.peachguitars.com/jackson-concept-series/


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 11, 2021)

xeno99 said:


> To make confusion complete there is now a korean Series for one UK dealer: https://www.peachguitars.com/jackson-concept-series/



MF has them too:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/jackson-concept-series-guitars?icid=220819


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## xeno99 (Oct 11, 2021)

Maybe FMIC got the memo that people don't want chinese Pro Series models.

The King V looks similar to the current BC Rich JVR (Luckily without the tacky abalone binding everywhere).
Pricewise I think a MIK Ltd (~1300) is better, they have no more symmetrical Vs.


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## Xaeldaren (Oct 11, 2021)

The Modern Dinky like is made in Korea too - anything with the crazy ash finishes, Evertune (except the Misha sigs), or multiscale.


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