# Snowflakery...



## BlackSG91 (Mar 22, 2019)

Do you consider yourself a snowflake? Do you find that you are sensitive to other's opinions? Here's another term made up by an ideology that promotes the alpha male in all of us. Thoughts?




;>)/


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## TedEH (Mar 22, 2019)

Well, that's enough internet for me today.


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## sezna (Mar 22, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Well, that's enough internet for me today.


enough fox news*?


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## TedEH (Mar 22, 2019)

It's dumb internet things leaking into Fox News, and recaptured and delivered once again via the internet. Whatever it is, this is more than enough of it.


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## Ralyks (Mar 22, 2019)

Snowflakes are snow. You get enough snow, you make snow balls. That snowball turns into a huge pile. That pile becomes an avalanche that crushes the people calling people "snowflakes" after you piss them off enough.

I guess I'm trying to say I've always found flinging around "snowflake" as an insult is pretty stupid.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 22, 2019)

Ralyks said:


> Snowflakes are snow. You get enough snow, you make snow balls. That snowball turns into a huge pile. That pile becomes an avalanche that crushes the people calling people "snowflakes" after you piss them off enough.
> 
> I guess I'm trying to say I've always found flinging around "snowflake" as an insult is pretty stupid.



It was apt at first, but it's one of those phrases that's just about lost it's meaning; not unlike 'nazi' or 'racist'. 
Now it seems to be used as an insult toward anyone that tends to lean more towards politically correct territory, but that isn't really accurate 9.5 times out of 10. Someone who should be called a 'special snowflake' is the type of person that thinks that they're oh-so-unique and special, like the saying that every individual flake of snow is structurally unique. For a huge majority of those accused of being such a person, this is just totally incorrect. Most of them aren't anything special and don't believe themselves to be; they just hold some of the same politics as those that do. 

God, you know, I am one toxic asshole, but even I detest how obsessed our culture is currently with insulting each other. For fuck's sake, at least do it right.


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## odibrom (Mar 22, 2019)

Ralyks said:


> Snowflakes are snow. You get enough snow, you make snow balls. That snowball turns into a huge pile. That pile becomes an avalanche that crushes the people calling people "snowflakes" after you piss them off enough.
> 
> I guess I'm trying to say I've always found flinging around "snowflake" as an insult is pretty stupid.




... don't eat the yellow snow... ??


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## Ralyks (Mar 22, 2019)

odibrom said:


> ... don't eat the yellow snow... ??



They should probably stop pissing on it then.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 22, 2019)

Another one that really should have gone in the politics thread. More trash spilling out of the dumpster fire.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 22, 2019)

Fuck that shit... The internet can turn any term into some kind of movement...


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## narad (Mar 22, 2019)

Snowflake is defined by her as “the inability to engage in productive intellectual dialogue"?? Does that sound accurate to anyone?  "Stop being a snowflake, we're trying to have a productive intelligent dialogue here!"

But man, I haven't had cable TV in a long time -- I almost thought this was satire when that giant board of "things to watch out for" popped up. Crazy it's gotten this bad. 

Citing professors handing out coloring books like this is part of the curriculum is particularly annoying to me -- professors don't hand out coloring books, some university counseling and welfare services hand out coloring books as a way to relieve stress. It's not part of a curriculum, it's part of counseling. Stress ball = not a snowflake. Coloring book = snowflake.


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## eggy in a bready (Mar 23, 2019)

i'm not going to watch that video and forever fuck up my youtube algorithm, but the woman in the thumbnail looks like pure evil. is there a bigger bummer than a young conservative?


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## Humbuck (Mar 23, 2019)

Nope. Wanna see how dumb Allie Beth Stuckey is? Watch this...


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## dr_game0ver (Mar 23, 2019)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47657650
Just posting that here.


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## BlackSG91 (Mar 23, 2019)

Here's an entrepreneur who has implemented the "snowflake" test at a job interview. Apparently he wants to weed out any Liberal Snowflakes who are all self-entitled that apply for a job and are NOT proud of their country.




;>)/


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## spudmunkey (Mar 23, 2019)

"How do you feel about guns?" Is a snowflake-filtering question? So if you're not comfortable around guns, that means "snowflake"? That's hilarious, because I come from an extended family of many gun owners, with a lot of snowflakes in that tree.  you can spot them on Facebook where every other post is a shared T-shirt that says something like, "the devil told me a storm was coming, and I stood up and said, 'this WELDER is a FEBRUARY guy who listens to THE ROLLING STONES, and I am the storm'".


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## Demiurge (Mar 23, 2019)

I don't want to trigger that marketing fella, but talking politics at the office is unproductive and a sign of having nothing better to do. Seeking to hire people who want to play that stupid game will just ensure you have an office full of assholes. How does that look to a serious candidate- a professional- if that shit gets brought up during the interview?


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## xzacx (Mar 23, 2019)

I guess I live in somewhat of a liberal bubble based on the demographics of the specific area I live in, the industry I work in, and the people I associate with (thankfully), so this isn’t a term I’m super familiar with or really ever encounter in real life. That said, I feel like every time I see it used online it’s by someone complaining that they were called out for acting like a dick. Being upset about something like that and using a term criticizing someone for being overly sensitive feels incredibly ironic.


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## BlackSG91 (Mar 23, 2019)

Just for the record I think the term "snowflake" is just another name calling ploy by right-wing pundits. It's a term used to describe so-called liberals as soft & lazy. The right-leaning have at this point thrown out any political correctness in order to get their point across. They are sinking to low levels in order to pander to the inner Cro-mag in all of us. We all know how Trump likes to name call and even having a feud with a dead person...go figure.


;>)/


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## Demiurge (Mar 23, 2019)

^It's just one of those strategies where you lob the accusation at the other side before it can just as easily be used against your side.


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## PunkBillCarson (Mar 24, 2019)

Snowflakes are on the liberal side AND the conservative side. Neither side can really talk about anyone being a snowflake since they both have their fair share of them. What's funny to me is how Conservatives are the ones who coin that term the most, but God fucking forbid a guy peacefully protests on a football field by kneeling. He's not burning a flag, he's not looting stores, but fuck him for getting down on one knee. "NO MAWR EN-EFF-ELL!"


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 26, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> It was apt at first, but it's one of those phrases that's just about lost it's meaning; not unlike 'nazi' or 'racist'.
> Now it seems to be used as an insult toward anyone that tends to lean more towards politically correct territory, but that isn't really accurate 9.5 times out of 10. Someone who should be called a 'special snowflake' is the type of person that thinks that they're oh-so-unique and special, like the saying that every individual flake of snow is structurally unique. For a huge majority of those accused of being such a person, this is just totally incorrect. Most of them aren't anything special and don't believe themselves to be; they just hold some of the same politics as those that do.
> 
> God, you know, I am one toxic asshole, but even I detest how obsessed our culture is currently with insulting each other. For fuck's sake, at least do it right.



The first time I heard the term, it was referring to exactly what you describe - people who (usually mistakenly) think they're special. 

That said, the alternative use is quite funny because I do observe that people are much more easily offended nowadays. I think the Internet has exacerbated that.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 26, 2019)

that video was utter dogshit, just like most stuff that fox or cnn talks about anymore. 
The way I heard snowflake used over the last few years was basically a way to insult millenial liberals, because they grew up in a timeframe where everyone is a winner, everyone is special, and they tend to come off as entitled, and naive/overly optimistic (like all the kids that voted for bernie because they don't understand that FREE COLLEGE would never actually be "free" in an economic sense). 
The military does have therapy dogs for vets and combat arms soldiers, because it does help them de-stress and helps with anxiety. Same with the combat stress rooms, which are basically just rooms full of stuff like video games, tvs, etc where they send soldiers that have to take a break from patrols. The army in particular is very aware of the effects of stress on soldiers, which is why they've recently been trying so hard to minimize it. It's a similar thing in schools, throw kids into an unfamiliar situation, put them under pressure (whether self inflicted or otherwise), and see what happens. I knew some kids from high school that were honors students all through school and they lost their shit once they got into college. The same thing basically happened to me, and I ended up dropping out of college for a few years. 
I don't get why Fox is trying to act like stoicism is somehow a better idea than people acknowledging and dealing with their stress in healthy ways.


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## Ralyks (Mar 26, 2019)

I blame participation trophies.


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## Strobe (Mar 26, 2019)

There is a common (although not universal tendency) towards ascribing one's own though patterns to other people. It is generally referred to as projection. 

I think that perhaps that the folks who need their own news media sphere, their own safe social spaces/communities/universities/clubs, and even their own facts doth protest too much. Maybe the same people who are riding on a centuries long cultural and economic dominance are in fact persecuted, or maybe they are ironically the snowflakiest of special little snowflakes.

The whole terminology is people getting bad feelings at the negative social consequences of being an @$$hole, and then through the coping mechanism of projection (and without a hint of irony), lashing out at all who they think caused the bad feelings as snowflakes.


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## Demiurge (Mar 26, 2019)

Ralyks said:


> I blame participation trophies.



This is my favorite. I remember playing youth soccer and that every player on the non-champion team got the perfunctory 8" tall shit at the season-end dinner while the winners got the huge fuckers that probably had to be seatbelted-in for the ride home. 

There were no illusions as to what was going on. Kids are better at understanding things better than they get credit for. The lesson wasn't, "Yay- everybody gets something!", it was "If you want the good shit, you have to win, asshole." It was almost more motivation.


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## vilk (Mar 26, 2019)

Also, when have you ever seen someone display a participation trophy? I know that I got plenty in the parks department soccer (though ours were just ribbons. Only actual winners got trophies), but even kids would never be excited to show that off. It could only possibly matter to a child so young that they don't even fully understand the concept of competition. So like, what, four year olds?


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 26, 2019)

vilk said:


> Also, when have you ever seen someone display a participation trophy? I know that I got plenty in the parks department soccer (though ours were just ribbons. Only actual winners got trophies), but even kids would never be excited to show that off. It could only possibly matter to a child so young that they don't even fully understand the concept of competition. So like, what, four year olds?



Nah, I did swim team when I was like 6. I remember any 'participation' ribbons that got handed out just got chucked in a box somewhere.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 26, 2019)

vilk said:


> Also, when have you ever seen someone display a participation trophy?


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## spudmunkey (Mar 26, 2019)




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## Ralyks (Mar 26, 2019)




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## PunkBillCarson (Mar 27, 2019)

Holy shit... @MaxOfMetal just stole the fucking thread....


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## dr_game0ver (Mar 27, 2019)

HAHA! That 'll be funny if i knew who these peoples where... #French


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## TedEH (Mar 27, 2019)

vilk said:


> Also, when have you ever seen someone display a participation trophy?


Given that the implication was that we're talking about kids - most kids I know will take some amount of pride in just about any reward you give them that they can put on display. If it can be put on a shelf, they'll want it there, whether it means they came in 1st, or were just recognized for participating. That small amount of recognition is impactful to a child, IMO, for better or worse.


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## thraxil (Mar 27, 2019)

dr_game0ver said:


> HAHA! That 'll be funny if i knew who these peoples where... #French



Confederate war statues.


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## Drew (Mar 27, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> that video was utter dogshit, just like most stuff that fox or cnn talks about anymore.
> The way I heard snowflake used over the last few years was basically a way to insult millenial liberals, because they grew up in a timeframe where everyone is a winner, everyone is special, and they tend to come off as entitled, and naive/overly optimistic (like all the kids that voted for bernie because they don't understand that FREE COLLEGE would never actually be "free" in an economic sense).
> The military does have therapy dogs for vets and combat arms soldiers, because it does help them de-stress and helps with anxiety. Same with the combat stress rooms, which are basically just rooms full of stuff like video games, tvs, etc where they send soldiers that have to take a break from patrols. The army in particular is very aware of the effects of stress on soldiers, which is why they've recently been trying so hard to minimize it. It's a similar thing in schools, throw kids into an unfamiliar situation, put them under pressure (whether self inflicted or otherwise), and see what happens. I knew some kids from high school that were honors students all through school and they lost their shit once they got into college. The same thing basically happened to me, and I ended up dropping out of college for a few years.
> I don't get why Fox is trying to act like stoicism is somehow a better idea than people acknowledging and dealing with their stress in healthy ways.


Excellent, excellent post.


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## Thaeon (Apr 12, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> that video was utter dogshit, just like most stuff that fox or cnn talks about anymore.
> The way I heard snowflake used over the last few years was basically a way to insult millenial liberals, because they grew up in a timeframe where everyone is a winner, everyone is special, and they tend to come off as entitled, and naive/overly optimistic (like all the kids that voted for bernie because they don't understand that FREE COLLEGE would never actually be "free" in an economic sense).
> The military does have therapy dogs for vets and combat arms soldiers, because it does help them de-stress and helps with anxiety. Same with the combat stress rooms, which are basically just rooms full of stuff like video games, tvs, etc where they send soldiers that have to take a break from patrols. The army in particular is very aware of the effects of stress on soldiers, which is why they've recently been trying so hard to minimize it. It's a similar thing in schools, throw kids into an unfamiliar situation, put them under pressure (whether self inflicted or otherwise), and see what happens. I knew some kids from high school that were honors students all through school and they lost their shit once they got into college. The same thing basically happened to me, and I ended up dropping out of college for a few years.
> I don't get why Fox is trying to act like stoicism is somehow a better idea than people acknowledging and dealing with their stress in healthy ways.



Gotta perpetuate cultural toxicity or deal with actually seeing what is wrong with the perspective. Easier to lead people by telling them their shitty behavior is completely fine and those other people are assholes. This happens on both sides. But the most glaringly obvious and in my opinion toxic examples happen on the Right.



MaxOfMetal said:


>



I have not seen a more apropos and genuinely funny response in a LONG time. Thank you.



TedEH said:


> Given that the implication was that we're talking about kids - most kids I know will take some amount of pride in just about any reward you give them that they can put on display. If it can be put on a shelf, they'll want it there, whether it means they came in 1st, or were just recognized for participating. That small amount of recognition is impactful to a child, IMO, for better or worse.



You're right. Being a parent and knowing a little bit about how child develops and how the reward center in the brain works, people and especially children will respond and learn better from positive reinforcement of behavior than they will respond to feeling defeated. In other words, failure is a useful tool. But the lesson will often get overlooked if you can't put a positive spin on the situation highlighting what a person/child did right.


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## MetalHex (Apr 12, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> "NO MAWR EN-EFF-ELL!"



Well you just proved your own point. By mocking/stereotyping a conservative by using a "redneck spelling", that i know what your intention is by the spelling......that if you were to say it outloud, your mock voice would have a southern accent.

So you claimed that both sides are snowflakes, but chose only to make an example out of the conservative side.. Headscratcher emoji

I've no dog in this fight so to speak, I'm just making an observation


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## Xaios (Apr 12, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Well you just proved your own point. By mocking/stereotyping a conservative by using a "redneck spelling", that i know what your intention is by the spelling......that if you were to say it outloud, your mock voice would have a southern accent.
> 
> So you claimed that both sides are snowflakes, but chose only to make an example out of the conservative side.. Headscratcher emoji
> 
> I've no dog in this fight so to speak, I'm just making an observation


I think you missed the plot, because his point wasn't solely that people are guilty on both sides, but also that people on the right tend to be _more_ guilty of the snowflake-esque behavior that they so frequently deride than the people they're constantly lobbing accusations at, which is emblematic of the fact that many people on the right are perfectly fine with being massive hypocrites (e.g. puritanical evangelicals supporting a president who is an unrepentant and morally bankrupt letch) whenever it suits their agenda.



MaxOfMetal said:


>


Man, I know I'm late to the party on this one, but fucking hell.


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## MetalHex (Apr 12, 2019)

Maybe idk. I will wait until he answers though.


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 12, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Maybe idk. I will wait until he answers though.




Dude, I've lobbed many insults towards liberals on this forum. My last banning was because I called the mods "liberal fucking Nazi's." If you don't believe me, ask the mods. My insult was mainly towards the Conservatives on this side though, because they seem to be the ones telling all the bleeding hearts to saddle up and pull up their panties, but then watch a bunch of them act like they got slapped in the face when some guy kneels on a field for the great 'Murican sport "football." You'll see me say this a million goddamn times. Liberals AND Conservatives are both full of shit, both of them have shit that offends them which amuses me, it's just that for the side that's always talking about being offended, some guy kneeling triggers them like no other.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 12, 2019)

Yeah, for real.


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## c7spheres (Apr 12, 2019)

So they're basically trying to program "bullies" to call people "snowflakes" instead of "pussies" it sounds like. The problem isn't all this attempted re-programming of people. The problem is that there is some success in doing it.


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## MetalHex (Apr 13, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Dude, I've lobbed many insults towards liberals on this forum. My last banning was because I called the mods "liberal fucking Nazi's." If you don't believe me, ask the mods. My insult was mainly towards the Conservatives on this side though, because they seem to be the ones telling all the bleeding hearts to saddle up and pull up their panties, but then watch a bunch of them act like they got slapped in the face when some guy kneels on a field for the great 'Murican sport "football." You'll see me say this a million goddamn times. Liberals AND Conservatives are both full of shit, both of them have shit that offends them which amuses me, it's just that for the side that's always talking about being offended, some guy kneeling triggers them like no other.



You are right, it does work both ways. But I would say it's much more justified to feel offended and disrespected by people who kneel at the anthem/flag when it is very easy to equate them to people who literally stomp and burn the flag. For one, I dont like how the U.S. is always policing the world and involved in every other country, etc etc....and I don't support the cause necessarily, because those wars my be based on deception, but I do support the troops who may not realize or don't feel like they are being deceived and duped into fighting unnecessary wars, (they don't have to believe the same things I do), but they are fighting for our freedom (or so they may think), and they are 100% heroes for having that spirit and putting their lives on the line.

So if an American loving American (if I may put it so) sees someone kneeling at the flag, that is where their rage is coming from.

As opposed to people such as neo-feminists, the most self-hating self-loathing kind of people (perhaps, they don't even have a "self", but thats something to unpack in perhaps a psychology thread), You see so many of these types of liberals who want to shut down public speakers when they come to speak at a university for example, they dont even want to have a debate about anything. They just want to shut down anyone that they dont agree with.

Take this self-less person in this person in this video with the shaved head. This girl is the epitome of toxic femininity. I dont know exactly what happened before this video started filming, but judging by the calm manner of the man she is screaming at, I would bet $100 that she got up in their face first, spitting venom. After she spits the venom then she tries to flip a switch and act all calm and polite and lady-like, but it's phony as fuck.

She goes on to say two things that stick out to me. One being that a political discourse doesn't need to be 50/50 from both sides, but basically that it needs to be all woman, 100%. No room here for a trump supporting male. Then she throws a crying tantrum about how his trump hat makes her scared, etc..

My point is that this is the typical childish behavior that I see from the left, and its completely un-justified and irrational. So yeah, the term snowflake is much more fitting for a leftist.

Sorry, here is the video


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 13, 2019)

Here's the thing though, they're not fighting for freedom. We've got freedom in spades and so do a lot of other countries. Other countries have the same freedoms we have. The point of Kaepernick kneeling was to show that America needs to be better and he's not wrong. I'm not even a football fan, but you can't change anything unless you speak out and you're not going to get anyone's attention unless you do something about it. This man didn't burn a flag, he didn't say "fuck America." There's nothing wrong with loving your country. What's wrong is people who say there's nothing wrong with this country. Are we the worst country on Earth? No, far from it, but we're also far from the best and that needs to change. A TRUE patriot would want to see true change for their country. Have our taxes go towards what matters which is education and healthcare instead of lining the pockets of some greedy CEO. I'll grant you, the woman in that video has gone a little nuts, but you can't honestly say that liberals have the only snowflakes there are. You try and bring up issues with lesser uneducated people, they either turn their noses up or they say "leave." No, that's not good enough for me, I'm sorry and even if the left had ALL the snowflakes, at least they're fighting for something rather than nothing.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe people act the way they do because they are fed up or maybe something happened in their lives to spark the behavior? That doesn't make what they're doing right, but in a country that demonizes mental health issues and makes you feel like shit for being weak, even if it's not on a physical level, of course you're going to have shit like this happen! Another problem with that is people tend to believe you had to have done something big in your life or to have something big happen to you for you to experience mental illness. You don't have to be a war torn vet to have depression or anything like that. Anytime someone has a problem, half this fucking country tells them to saddle up and you know what? Yeah, I get it. Sometimes you just want the drama queens to stop self-diagnosing. I hate that shit. People acting like they have 26 different mental illnesses just because they're nervous about starting a new job or something, I can't stand it. But there are people out there with actual issues and you don't have to hand them a rifle and tell them to fight for oil AHEM- I mean FREEDOM, for them to have issues.

So yes, when a whiny fucking conservative who probably didn't even serve tries to tell me or someone else that everyone else is a snowflake because they want change but then starts screaming and hollerin' GAWD BLESS DAYLE FUCKIN' EARNHARDT, you bet your ass they're just as much as snowflake as the people they're talking about and the difference is? They CHOOSE to be ignorant instead of recognizing what needs to be fixed. "But, my guns! My money! My free speech!" No one's taking those away, but they're not giving anything to anyone else that doesn't fall in line with them.


And if you need a source for my complaints of all this idiocy, check my location. Born and raised in this uber-conservative bullshit and the ONLY reason I haven't left is because I found the first job that paid great, took it, and stayed. But when I get outside, I can smell that good ol' Southern hospitality. It's not all bad, but just like this country, it needs work. All these things I've said are things I've heard from my environment for the last thirty years and anecdotal evidence may not be evidence, but anyone who's been down here knows exactly what I'm talking about. Why don't you ask the people down here why they whisper when they say that 6 letter N word they love so much?


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## narad (Apr 13, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> You are right, it does work both ways. But I would say it's much more justified to feel offended and disrespected by people who kneel at the anthem/flag when it is very easy to equate them to people who literally stomp and burn the flag. For one, I dont like how the U.S. is always policing the world and involved in every other country, etc etc....and I don't support the cause necessarily, because those wars my be based on deception, but I do support the troops who may not realize or don't feel like they are being deceived and duped into fighting unnecessary wars, (they don't have to believe the same things I do), but they are fighting for our freedom (or so they may think), and they are 100% heroes for having that spirit and putting their lives on the line.
> 
> So if an American loving American (if I may put it so) sees someone kneeling at the flag, that is where their rage is coming from.
> 
> ...




Isn't it dumb to cherry pick this one person acting dumb in one video, and use it to characterize literally ten (if not hundreds) of millions of people? I don't get this logic, but I see it on the right (on the internet) a lot. "Look at this person being ridiculous on a college campus. 'The left' surely is getting out of hand." There's enough stupid people in the world that if you walk around with a camera enough, that by this logic, you're going to be able to discredit basically every large group of people. Which is precisely why it doesn't really provide anything useful to any discussion.

Same with your characterization of feminists.

Why don't you talk about an idea that you think is bad, instead of a group of people you think is bad, when you know of and interact with only 0.000001% of said group?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 13, 2019)

> neo-feminists
> liberals
> toxic femininity
> snowflake
> leftist



I am like one fucking square away from a BINGO. Anyone have more markers?


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## narad (Apr 13, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I am like one fucking square away from a BINGO. Anyone have more markers?



Center square is a "safe space". You win!! Also the other players win too!


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## MetalHex (Apr 13, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Here's the thing though, they're not fighting for freedom. We've got freedom in spades and so do a lot of other countries. Other countries have the same freedoms we have. The point of Kaepernick kneeling was to show that America needs to be better and he's not wrong. I'm not even a football fan, but you can't change anything unless you speak out and you're not going to get anyone's attention unless you do something about it. This man didn't burn a flag, he didn't say "fuck America." There's nothing wrong with loving your country. What's wrong is people who say there's nothing wrong with this country. Are we the worst country on Earth? No, far from it, but we're also far from the best and that needs to change. A TRUE patriot would want to see true change for their country. Have our taxes go towards what matters which is education and healthcare instead of lining the pockets of some greedy CEO. I'll grant you, the woman in that video has gone a little nuts, but you can't honestly say that liberals have the only snowflakes there are. You try and bring up issues with lesser uneducated people, they either turn their noses up or they say "leave." No, that's not good enough for me, I'm sorry and even if the left had ALL the snowflakes, at least they're fighting for something rather than nothing.
> 
> Did you ever stop to think that maybe people act the way they do because they are fed up or maybe something happened in their lives to spark the behavior? That doesn't make what they're doing right, but in a country that demonizes mental health issues and makes you feel like shit for being weak, even if it's not on a physical level, of course you're going to have shit like this happen! Another problem with that is people tend to believe you had to have done something big in your life or to have something big happen to you for you to experience mental illness. You don't have to be a war torn vet to have depression or anything like that. Anytime someone has a problem, half this fucking country tells them to saddle up and you know what? Yeah, I get it. Sometimes you just want the drama queens to stop self-diagnosing. I hate that shit. People acting like they have 26 different mental illnesses just because they're nervous about starting a new job or something, I can't stand it. But there are people out there with actual issues and you don't have to hand them a rifle and tell them to fight for oil AHEM- I mean FREEDOM, for them to have issues.
> 
> ...



Kaepernick? for a better America? The same man who is proudly endorsed by Nike? The same Nike that uses child labor and pays peanuts per hour to make his cleats? If he was truly against oppression he would start with his sponsors. Yeah so that's very unclear then as to WHAT kind of change he actually wants...

On your second paragraph: Problems in this country are never going to get fixed until people do some "shadow work" on themselves, and figure out why they themselves have these problems. People keep looking externally for change, they turn to medications, they sign up for stupid clubs and cults and join gangs, they turn to all the outlet traps that this hyper-extroverted society provides for them. This country doesn't demonize mental health issues, it makes excuses for them.

"GAWD BLESS DAYLE FUCKIN' EARNHARDT": This is the second phrase you used that equated southern red-neck speech with conservatives.

"But, my guns! My money! My free speech!" No one's taking those away: No? What percentage of democrats and liberals do you actually think want to take peoples guns away completely? What percentage of college kids today (roughly 80%) are pro-socialism anti-capitalism/ would be fine with taking peoples money away (especially from "greedy CEO's like you said) and "spreading the wealth around a little bit"? (that's an obama easter egg) What percentage of liberals want to take free speech away? To me, it seems like a lot from videos i've seen. they are the ones who coined the term "hate-speech", they are the ones who shut down and prevent political figures from visting and speaking at different places across the country/world. We know I am right that people on the left would be hella-inclined to take those things away before anyone on the right would. The scale has been tipped over already.

Not sure what the N word has to do with anything. It's funny I was watching Esacpe from Alcatrazz on TV the other day and the censored one word when they should have either censored two, or not censored anything. The scene when Clint Eastwood goes into the recess area outside and approaches the area where the black guys were sitting. A black said to Clint, "where you goin cracker"? and you heard cracker loud and clear. I was like, lol oh ok. Then the black guy asks Clint why he wouldn't sit at the top bench, he said "are you scared or you just hated "_______" (obviously he said niggers). Clint said, no i just hate "______". My jaw almost hit the floor that they would block one racial slur and not the other.


----------



## MetalHex (Apr 13, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I am like one fucking square away from a BINGO. Anyone have more markers?


theres only 5 squares in bingo....


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Apr 13, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> theres only 5 squares in bingo....



There are actually 25.







These are the important things.


----------



## PunkBillCarson (Apr 13, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Kaepernick? for a better America? The same man who is proudly endorsed by Nike? The same Nike that uses child labor and pays peanuts per hour to make his cleats? If he was truly against oppression he would start with his sponsors. Yeah so that's very unclear then as to WHAT kind of change he actually wants...
> 
> On your second paragraph: Problems in this country are never going to get fixed until people do some "shadow work" on themselves, and figure out why they themselves have these problems. People keep looking externally for change, they turn to medications, they sign up for stupid clubs and cults and join gangs, they turn to all the outlet traps that this hyper-extroverted society provides for them. This country doesn't demonize mental health issues, it makes excuses for them.
> 
> ...




Yeah but here you are citing EXTREME examples of the crowd you're trying to demonize and I get it. You're generalizing a little bit, as have I, BUT I'm not talking about extreme examples. I'm talking about your average Conservative here, you know... the kind that listen to the guy that says women can shut down a rape baby by refusing to orgasm? There is literally no one coming after guns full stop. There are people who believe that certain people should not have guns or that it should be harder to get guns, yes. There are also people who belong in the minority that would take guns away, but those aren't your threats to your freedom. There are some who shrivel when you say slurs, but then there are those who believe you can say whatever you want as long as you're willing to deal with someone confronting you about it. 

Also, regarding Kaepernick, he wasn't fighting against child labor, he's fighting against police brutality and lack of equality, so... what you said isn't here nor there. If you have a problem with me saying "GAWD BLESS DAYLE FUCKIN' EARNHARDT" and occasionally poking fun at ignorance... well that's your problem, but you can't pretend it's not an actual thing, because it is. Also in regards to the racial slurs, I agree with you on that. Neither should have been allowed to clear hearing them. Now I think of it, how that movie is PG is fucking BEYOND me.

Here's something you need to understand though: You're not talking about average progressives. You're taking the extreme of them and trying to use that as your point when they're the exception and not the rule. Sorry, that doesn't work. 

OH and before I forget? This country DOES have a stigma attached to mental health. If it was that easy to talk about issues without feeling alone and felt like someone was actually helping or reaching out, the suicide rate wouldn't be what it is. This is NOT a hyper-extroverted society. The ironic part is that for as much as we've developed social media, we've used it as a way to actually detach ourselves from each other, so... wrong again.


----------



## MetalHex (Apr 13, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Yeah but here you are citing EXTREME examples of the crowd you're trying to demonize and I get it. You're generalizing a little bit, as have I, BUT I'm not talking about extreme examples. I'm talking about your average Conservative here, you know... the kind that listen to the guy that says women can shut down a rape baby by refusing to orgasm? There is literally no one coming after guns full stop. There are people who believe that certain people should not have guns or that it should be harder to get guns, yes. There are also people who belong in the minority that would take guns away, but those aren't your threats to your freedom. There are some who shrivel when you say slurs, but then there are those who believe you can say whatever you want as long as you're willing to deal with someone confronting you about it.
> 
> Also, regarding Kaepernick, he wasn't fighting against child labor, he's fighting against police brutality and lack of equality, so... what you said isn't here nor there. If you have a problem with me saying "GAWD BLESS DAYLE FUCKIN' EARNHARDT" and occasionally poking fun at ignorance... well that's your problem, but you can't pretend it's not an actual thing, because it is. Also in regards to the racial slurs, I agree with you on that. Neither should have been allowed to clear hearing them. Now I think of it, how that movie is PG is fucking BEYOND me.
> 
> ...


You called me out on using extreme liberals to make my point and said I'm wrong, but you keep using the extreme conservative rhetoric "insert redneck punchline here", and dont see how that is hypocritical.

There are other things I couldnt respond to as to where I think you're wrong. We disagree with alot of things, but it's cool.


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## MetalHex (Apr 13, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There are actually 25.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I meant you only need 5 squares to win bingo. You had 5 words and said you needed one more.


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 13, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There are actually 25.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





MetalHex said:


> You called me out on using extreme liberals to make my point and said I'm wrong, but you keep using the extreme conservative rhetoric "insert redneck punchline here", and dont see how that is hypocritical.
> 
> There are other things I couldnt respond to as to where I think you're wrong. We disagree with alot of things, but it's cool.




I believe that I'd already said that I was guilty of doing that.


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## narad (Apr 13, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Kaepernick? for a better America? The same man who is proudly endorsed by Nike? The same Nike that uses child labor and pays peanuts per hour to make his cleats? If he was truly against oppression he would start with his sponsors. Yeah so that's very unclear then as to WHAT kind of change he actually wants...



Not really anything more American than exploiting cheap or free labor by any means necessary.

But yea, also funny that the first people who rage on liberals for supposedly trying to take away free speech / coining the term "hate speech" are often the same people who get outraged by Kaepernick kneeling (which is just a statement that offends them).


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## jaxadam (Apr 13, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Liberals AND Conservatives are both full of shit, both of them have shit that offends them which amuses me, it's just that for the side that's always talking about being offended, some guy kneeling triggers them like no other.



See, that's the beauty of not being liberal or conservative... nothing bothers you!


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 13, 2019)

jaxadam said:


> See, that's the beauty of not being liberal or conservative... nothing bothers you!




On the contrary...

There are quite a few things that bother me. How we treat our citizens, our homeless, our vets are among those. This country could be so much better in terms of health, education, and who we choose to incarcerate, but... money.


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## Xaios (Apr 14, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Kaepernick? for a better America? The same man who is proudly endorsed by Nike? The same Nike that uses child labor and pays peanuts per hour to make his cleats? If he was truly against oppression he would start with his sponsors. Yeah so that's very unclear then as to WHAT kind of change he actually wants...


It's practically guaranteed that whatever device you typed this on contains minerals that were extracted from the earth by forced labor, be it de facto slavery or actual slavery. If you want to play the game of "no one can champion a cause or point out the hypocrisy in others unless they're an innocent lamb whose entire existence is predicated on ensuring that every molecule they encounter has never been touched by sin," you'll have to fall so far down the technological ladder that the only people who will ever hear you speak will be those in your immediate vicinity, and then you'll die of exposure when winter comes and you're without food, clothing and shelter.

Naturally, you aren't going to do that, because that would be stupid. The thing is, though, that trying to rebuke someone like Kaepernick simply because the platform that he's using to fight for positive change also has blood on its hands is nothing more than a deflection meant to pull focus away from the real issues at hand. It's the same tactic that conservatives have been using for years. Whenever they want to stifle debate, they'll say something like "all lives matter", "not all men," "what about Hillary's emails," or "it's not gun owners, it's the mentally ill who need treatment" (and that last one is especially rich considering how little of a shit the right cares about treating the mentally ill), statements and questions that, while inherently legitimate, are only thrown out with the utterly dishonest intent of derailing any real discussion.


----------



## USMarine75 (Apr 14, 2019)

As a centrist who leans left on a lot of things... imagine hiring the majority of these whackadoodles.

Please remember, this is not the professor who replied-all to the email, he is merely out there as an administrator to help diffuse the situation and talk with "you people". 

Fast-forward to 6:20. Looks like the only person that needs a safe space is the professor. 

These people, with their "safe space" and "trigger warning" culture, is 90% of why people like Trump get elected and will probably be re-elected. - Signed, a liberal. 


(@2:55 for the rant)


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## MetalHex (Apr 14, 2019)

Xaios said:


> It's practically guaranteed that whatever device you typed this on contains minerals that were extracted from the earth by forced labor, be it de facto slavery or actual slavery. If you want to play the game of "no one can champion a cause or point out the hypocrisy in others unless they're an innocent lamb whose entire existence is predicated on ensuring that every molecule they encounter has never been touched by sin," you'll have to fall so far down the technological ladder that the only people who will ever hear you speak will be those in your immediate vicinity, and then you'll die of exposure when winter comes and you're without food, clothing and shelter.
> 
> Naturally, you aren't going to do that, because that would be stupid. The thing is, though, that trying to rebuke someone like Kaepernick simply because the platform that he's using to fight for positive change also has blood on its hands is nothing more than a deflection meant tohomeil focus away from the real issues at hand. It's the same tactic that conservatives have been using for years. Whenever they want to stifle debate, they'll say something like "all lives matter", "not all men," "what about Hillary's emails," or "it's not gun owners, it's the mentally ill who need treatment" (and that last one is especially rich considering how little of a shit the right cares about treating the mentally ill), statements and questions that, while inherently legitimate, are only thrown out with the utterly dishonest intent of derailing any real discussion.


Uh. No. All I was meaning was that maybe he shouldn't be taking a knee then. Actually, I really don't care about the whole knee thing. I never cared or was offended. I was just responding to punkbillcarson about it since he brought it up, and that I could see where people could be offended. (Not that kneeling is a good way to bring about positive change. On the contrary though, it did bring about more division)......but thats besides the point.

I think that you just used my light-hearted post as an opportunity to vent out some your discontent about right-wingers considering that you lumped me together with people who give a fuck about hilarys emails....which, surprisingly, I don't.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 14, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> On the other hand, you could mean that he is "my" president in the sense that he represents everything that I stand for. You would be wrong to assume that. You would also be wrong to assume that I voted for him.





MetalHex said:


> I think that you just used my light-hearted post as an opportunity to vent out some your discontent about right-wingers considering that you lumped me together with people who give a fuck about hilarys emails....which, surprisingly, I don't.



The lad doth protest too much, methinks


----------



## MetalHex (Apr 14, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> As a centrist who leans left on a lot of things... imagine hiring the majority of these whackadoodles.
> 
> Please remember, this is not the professor who replied-all to the email, he is merely out there as an administrator to help diffuse the situation and talk with "you people".
> 
> ...



well clearly everyone out there is looking for some drama.....that's why they are out there to begin with (most likely) because they know damn well that its a terrible way to have political discourse with other people......its almost gauranteed to be a shit show. Or else they would just stay home.


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## narad (Apr 15, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> (Not that kneeling is a good way to bring about positive change. On the contrary though, it did bring about more division)......but thats besides the point.



What is a good way to bring about positive change? Write your representatives, Colin!

The dude did a phenomenal job bringing attention to the cause, and being someone in the limelight that everyday victims can rally behind.


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## MetalHex (Apr 15, 2019)

narad said:


> What is a good way to bring about positive change? Write your representatives, Colin!
> 
> The dude did a phenomenal job bringing attention to the cause, and being someone in the limelight that everyday victims can rally behind.



Since you just can't let it die and you must keep pressing on....

Again, he needs to be clear on what he wants to change, and address that directly to the ones whom he is addressing; instead of taking a knee during the national anthem during a football game. Police brutality is somewhat of a general blanket problem, to justify taking a knee during a private company owned nfl game full of contractual obligations. That's like being against illegal dog fighting, and then taking a knee at a football game during the national anthem because you are against dog fighting. Thats like being against companies cutting pension plans to their employees, and taking a knee during the national anthem at a national televised football game because you are upset about employees losing their pensions. See how silly that is? They have nothing to do with each other.

What he should do is wait until after the game and after his shower when he does his press interview with ESPN and all the other broadcasting networks, he should address his grief THEN....while he has the not only the cameras on him but 100 microphones and a podium so he can SAY what his problem is.

He brought about more divide rather than a good change, because of, well, look at the backlash he haa gotten for it on the 50% or people who are against it. The gung ho idiots who are FOR what he sid, vs the gung ho idiots who are against what he did, are forever at a civil war because of it, and it all could have been easily avoided. He brought the nfl involved when they have nothing to do with police brutality. On one side you have the "pro" kneeling people shouting in everyones face saying things like "GOOD! GOOD! FUCK you white supremist racist ass pigs nazi kkk facist usa!!" On the other hand you have people lighting their nfl jerseys and other nfl memorabilia on fire saying "they took err jerb!!" because they are so upset. He stirred the fuck out of the pot by doing it the way he did. If he addressed the issue at another place and time, it would have brought upon a more widespread positive effect.

But on another note, why isnt he kneeling and protesting against all of his nfl buddies who are arrested every other day for domestic violence beating their wives time and time again? At least those two factors are both related since, he is against brutality, and IT IS members of the same club he belongs to getting charged for those crimes. That would make alot more sense because the national anthem doesnt = police brutality.


----------



## narad (Apr 15, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Police brutality is somewhat of a general blanket problem, to justify taking a knee during a private company owned nfl game full of contractual obligations. That's like being against illegal dog fighting, and then taking a knee at a football game during the national anthem because you are against dog fighting.



If in this scenario the public at large generally wrongly believes that there's no widespread dog fighting problem in America. People saw him kneeling and had to ask "why?", which involves actually educating oneself, and in the process beginning to examine how prevalent this type of problem is.

I don't know, I think of it kind of like looking at Gandhi in 1930 and thinking, jeez, sitting around and going for walks? What's this have to do with British rule? Surely you could write a letter or get your voice heard in some other channel? All this is doing is sewing division between the Indian people!


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## possumkiller (Apr 15, 2019)

narad said:


> If in this scenario the public at large generally wrongly believes that there's no widespread dog fighting problem in America. People saw him kneeling and had to ask "why?", which involves actually educating oneself, and in the process beginning to examine how prevalent this type of problem is.
> 
> I don't know, I think of it kind of like looking at Gandhi in 1930 and thinking, jeez, sitting around and going for walks? What's this have to do with British rule? Surely you could write a letter or get your voice heard in some other channel? All this is doing is sewing division between the Indian people!


No shit. Or setting yourself on fire? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Standing in front of tanks? People do some weird shit for weird reasons.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Apr 15, 2019)

narad said:


> Isn't it dumb to cherry pick this one person acting dumb in one video, and use it to characterize literally ten (if not hundreds) of millions of people? I don't get this logic, but I see it on the right (on the internet) a lot. "Look at this person being ridiculous on a college campus. 'The left' surely is getting out of hand." There's enough stupid people in the world that if you walk around with a camera enough, that by this logic, you're going to be able to discredit basically every large group of people. Which is precisely why it doesn't really provide anything useful to any discussion.
> 
> Same with your characterization of feminists.
> 
> Why don't you talk about an idea that you think is bad, instead of a group of people you think is bad, when you know of and interact with only 0.000001% of said group?





PunkBillCarson said:


> Here's something you need to understand though: You're not talking about average progressives. You're taking the extreme of them and trying to use that as your point when they're the exception and not the rule. Sorry, that doesn't work.



The point is that the extreme is growing, and shit like this only feeds it and enables it to keep growing. This strange person doing strange things bit is more common than it should be. I'm pretty sure I've posted a short novel on this in the US politics thread, lol.
"Look at this person being ridiculous on a college campus" works, because there are TONS of people out there that have actually seen that happen. This type of behavior is spiraling out of control and is starting to become way, way more prevalent.

The radical left is feeding the radical right who is feeding the radical left, and so long as everyone is going to sit on their half of the line, play the whataboutism game, and continue to enable these people, these types of people WILL have more in common with the typical member of X group before too long. The reason why people like myself rag on the left about this more than the right is because it seems like the right mostly acknowledges that there's a problem. The alt-right is condemned all the time, to the point where I almost don't even hear it anymore when people say it. I don't see the same type of condemnation from the left toward their brand of insane activists.

And no, before anybody takes it personally, I am generalizing. I am fully 100% aware that most [if not all] of you are reasonable people who know this stuff and all of that text up there doesn't apply to you or even probably to most actual leftists. It's the media personalities, the legislators, the public faces that exhibit this behavior.



MaxOfMetal said:


> I am like one fucking square away from a BINGO. Anyone have more markers?



You forgot about DESTROYING people with FACTS and LOGIC 
I love that you actually saved that bingo sheet.


----------



## spudmunkey (Apr 15, 2019)

almost on sequitor: saw a title of a post somewhere that made me giggle: "Ben Shapiro DESTROYS basket of mozzeralla sticks at Applebee's with FACTS and LOGIC."


----------



## Thaeon (Apr 15, 2019)

MetalHex said:


> Since you just can't let it die and you must keep pressing on....
> 
> Again, he needs to be clear on what he wants to change, and address that directly to the ones whom he is addressing; instead of taking a knee during the national anthem during a football game. Police brutality is somewhat of a general blanket problem, to justify taking a knee during a private company owned nfl game full of contractual obligations. That's like being against illegal dog fighting, and then taking a knee at a football game during the national anthem because you are against dog fighting. Thats like being against companies cutting pension plans to their employees, and taking a knee during the national anthem at a national televised football game because you are upset about employees losing their pensions. See how silly that is? They have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> ...



"That's like being against illegal dog fighting, and then taking a knee at a football game during the national anthem because you are against dog fighting. Thats like being against companies cutting pension plans to their employees, and taking a knee during the national anthem at a national televised football game because you are upset about employees losing their pensions."

False equivalence. Its not like for like. People aren't DYING because of dog fighting or losing a pension. Police brutality has been leading to a rash of deaths disproportionately affecting the black community. This is why he was taking a knee.

You are also speaking from the perspective that controversy is a negative thing. Change doesn't happen without social pressure. You don't get that without making a scene. We're also talking about a community that is terrified of the current situation. Fear leads to emotional reactions to problems that could be solved otherwise. Colin's choice was actually quite rational and I applaud him for it. It cost him his livelihood. How many of us would be willing to take such a stand?


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 15, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> The point is that the extreme is growing, and shit like this only feeds it and enables it to keep growing. This strange person doing strange things bit is more common than it should be. I'm pretty sure I've posted a short novel on this in the US politics thread, lol.
> "Look at this person being ridiculous on a college campus" works, because there are TONS of people out there that have actually seen that happen. This type of behavior is spiraling out of control and is starting to become way, way more prevalent.
> 
> The radical left is feeding the radical right who is feeding the radical left, and so long as everyone is going to sit on their half of the line, play the whataboutism game, and continue to enable these people, these types of people WILL have more in common with the typical member of X group before too long. The reason why people like myself rag on the left about this more than the right is because it seems like the right mostly acknowledges that there's a problem. The alt-right is condemned all the time, to the point where I almost don't even hear it anymore when people say it. I don't see the same type of condemnation from the left toward their brand of insane activists.
> ...




Okay so what about the radical right? The people who turn their noses up whenever someone so much as even says the words "gun registry?"


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## Ordacleaphobia (Apr 15, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Okay so what about the radical right? The people who turn their noses up whenever someone so much as even says the words "gun registry?"



I wouldn't classify that as 'radical,' but _*in the post you quoted*_ I state that they're a problem.
In fact, this entire comment in and of itself is almost the topic of that whole post 



> The radical left is feeding the radical right who is feeding the radical left, and so long as everyone is going to sit on their half of the line, play the whataboutism game, and continue to enable these people, these types of people WILL have more in common with the typical member of X group before too long.



Every time the alt right does some stupid clowny shit, they create more radical leftists. Every time the radical lefists do some clowny stupid shit, they push more people toward the alt right. These people don't realize that they are literally creating the people they're so vocally against.


----------



## PunkBillCarson (Apr 15, 2019)

I would say ignoring a clear issue is pretty fucked up. Just because they're not out looting stores, they're ignoring and even denying the problems the create the disparity, so to me, yes that's pretty fucking radical.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Apr 15, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> I would say ignoring a clear issue is pretty fucked up. Just because they're not out looting stores, they're ignoring and even denying the problems the create the disparity, so to me, yes that's pretty fucking radical.



But do you see what's happening though? This is exactly what I was talking about.
"What about the right?" and then when met with a "Yeah, there's problems," we wind up deflected toward a singular issue. No acknowledgement that there may be a problem on the left.

How is a registry a clear issue? I don't want the government to have a list of every armed civilian. That sounds dystopian as fuck and they probably already know anyway. It's an annoyance but not really a huge issue, and doesn't solve the mass shooting problem, if that's what you're getting at. PM your thoughts on this one by all means if you want to discuss it.

And who is "they"? What disparity?


----------



## PunkBillCarson (Apr 15, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> But do you see what's happening though? This is exactly what I was talking about.
> "What about the right?" and then when met with a "Yeah, there's problems," we wind up deflected toward a singular issue. No acknowledgement that there may be a problem on the left.
> 
> How is a registry a clear issue? I don't want the government to have a list of every armed civilian. That sounds dystopian as fuck and they probably already know anyway. It's an annoyance but not really a huge issue, and doesn't solve the mass shooting problem, if that's what you're getting at. PM your thoughts on this one by all means if you want to discuss it.
> ...




Yeah but see you yourself have done the exact same thing. By merely bringing up any issues the other side has, that can be construed as this "whataboutism" thing. The problem is, you're going to have to bring those issues up if you truly expect to make any gains regarding this country. You identify an issue and then work on it. As far as disparity goes, I'm of course referring to how people are treated in general. There is still a disparity in this country regarding people of different backgrounds.


----------



## Thaeon (Apr 15, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Every time the alt right does some stupid clowny shit, they create more radical leftists. Every time the radical lefists do some clowny stupid shit, they push more people toward the alt right. These people don't realize that they are literally creating the people they're so vocally against.



So every time any person does something, they are directly responsible for how the people who disagree with what they did acts in response to their actions? Where are agency and personal responsibility? People, whether they wan't to believe it or not are directly responsible for their own actions. You can't just point back and forth. I understand what you're saying. Both sides need to take a pill and settle down. Agreed. But you can't blame one side for the actions of the other. They made a choice to do as they did. No one created anyone else. They chose to react irrationally or to reveal who they were all along. The Alt-Right is the Alt-Right because that's how they see things. It isn't because AntiFa did some dumb shit like punching Richard Spencer or because BLM blocked a street. AntiFa didn't become radical because of the Alt-Right. They were always radical and got bold because they discovered they weren't alone. Most of this can be attributed to the internet and its ability to bring crazy assholes together from disparate parts of this enormous spinning projectile. The media has a special super power that they like to use to fan the flames of literally EVERY dumpster fire happening on said spinning projectile. Mostly because they know what will make us watch in large enough numbers to draw ad revenue. Humans aren't civil. They're wild animals clever enough to convince themselves that they are civil. Convincing yourself that some else is to blame for the dumb shit one group does is the same as blaming the girl who broke your heart for dumb shit you're doing to make yourself feel better about the situation. She didn't make you do any of it. You just want an excuse to not be responsible for your own stupidity. The result of all of this though, is that everyone eventually realizes on some level how stupid they were being, and if they aren't too proud, they extend an olive branch.  That's where the change actually starts happening. We need the conflict to get better. We don't have to struggle against our environments anymore. Nature has submitted to us. Except that nature that resides within us that needs something to struggle against so that we can progress. Those two groups of idiots are defining the middle ground right now. Eventually most of us will end up there and be what determines how we move forward.


----------



## MFB (Apr 15, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> almost on sequitor: saw a title of a post somewhere that made me giggle: "Ben Shapiro DESTROYS basket of mozzeralla sticks at Applebee's with FACTS and LOGIC."



I too crush mozzarella stick appetizers using facts and logic*

*Facts and logic of course being my left and right hands


----------



## jaxadam (Apr 15, 2019)

MFB said:


> I too crush mozzarella stick appetizers using facts and logic*
> 
> *Facts and logic of course being my left and right hands



See, I don't eat fried foods, so I'll just sit back and crush a bag of Polly-O string cheese like it ain't no thang.


----------



## MFB (Apr 15, 2019)

jaxadam said:


> See, I don't eat fried foods, so I'll just sit back and crush a bag of Polly-O string cheese like it ain't no thang.



Isn't that the title of a Snoop song, "Ain't Nuthin' but a Polly-O Thang" I believe?


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## jaxadam (Apr 15, 2019)

MFB said:


> Isn't that the title of a Snoop song, "Ain't Nuthin' but a Polly-O Thang" I believe?



Close.

Ain’t nothing but a cheese thing babay
Two fondue pots going crazay
Kraft mac n cheese is the label that pays may
Unmeltable so please don’t try to melt this


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## spudmunkey (Apr 15, 2019)

MFB said:


> I too crush mozzarella stick appetizers using facts and logic*
> 
> *Facts and logic of course being my left and right hands



"My killed hands tattooed 'FACTS' & 'LOGIC'
across it's brother's fist
That filthy five,
They did nothing to challenge or resist"


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## Ordacleaphobia (Apr 15, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Yeah but see you yourself have done the exact same thing. By merely bringing up any issues the other side has, that can be construed as this "whataboutism" thing. The problem is, you're going to have to bring those issues up if you truly expect to make any gains regarding this country. You identify an issue and then work on it. As far as disparity goes, I'm of course referring to how people are treated in general. There is still a disparity in this country regarding people of different backgrounds.



I absolutely have not.
Whataboutism is a response, not an initiating action. Me saying "The left doesn't do X" isn't whataboutism. That would be if someone accused me of doing something and my response is simply "what about you? You do it too." It's avoiding the issue, shifting attention from an uncomfortable topic onto someone else. There's no harm in identifying a problem and I'll be the first to admit that the right currently has many, many problems.

And yes, if you want to invoke change you need to do something at some point. This sounds like you're still on the Kaepernick thing and I've gone down that rabbit hole before. I'm not touching it because that wasn't what I was talking about.



Thaeon said:


> So every time any person does something, they are directly responsible for how the people who disagree with what they did acts in response to their actions? Where are agency and personal responsibility? People, whether they wan't to believe it or not are directly responsible for their own actions. *You can't just point back and forth. I understand what you're saying. Both sides need to take a pill and settle down. Agreed.* But you can't blame one side for the actions of the other. They made a choice to do as they did. No one created anyone else. They chose to react irrationally or to reveal who they were all along. The Alt-Right is the Alt-Right because that's how they see things. It isn't because AntiFa did some dumb shit like punching Richard Spencer or because BLM blocked a street. AntiFa didn't become radical because of the Alt-Right. They were always radical and got bold because they discovered they weren't alone. Most of this can be attributed to the internet and its ability to bring crazy assholes together from disparate parts of this enormous spinning projectile. The media has a special super power that they like to use to fan the flames of literally EVERY dumpster fire happening on said spinning projectile. Mostly because they know what will make us watch in large enough numbers to draw ad revenue. Humans aren't civil. They're wild animals clever enough to convince themselves that they are civil. Convincing yourself that some else is to blame for the dumb shit one group does is the same as blaming the girl who broke your heart for dumb shit you're doing to make yourself feel better about the situation. She didn't make you do any of it. You just want an excuse to not be responsible for your own stupidity. The result of all of this though, is that everyone eventually realizes on some level how stupid they were being, and if they aren't too proud, they extend an olive branch. That's where the change actually starts happening. We need the conflict to get better. We don't have to struggle against our environments anymore. Nature has submitted to us. Except that nature that resides within us that needs something to struggle against so that we can progress. Those two groups of idiots are defining the middle ground right now. Eventually most of us will end up there and be what determines how we move forward.



Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think that you thought about what I said _*at all*_.
At no point was there ever an indication made that when someone does something it's someone else's fault, that's insanity. To insinuate that the incessant media coverage of these fringe extremes isn't pushing people further to the left/right is also...to be blunt, complete fantasy.

You can't constantly tell the populace "oh yeah, our country is filled with racists and fascists," and expect people to not start to think "Oh shit, our country is actually filled with racists and fascists, we need to do something about this before things get out of control." Granted sure, you have to pre-disposed to that notion to some extent, but if you tell people something often enough eventually they'll start to believe it, and showing up at a demonstration with the intent of causing someone actual physical harm isn't that far of a stretch if you honestly think this person and their fans think Hitler was a great guy.

You're not wrong on a lot of this- this IS all compacted by the internet, media availability, echo-chambers and outrage culture. But the key connecting factor is......people that really piss people off. These tend to be extremists. Do you honestly think that the Antifa movement would be as strong as it is if the alt-right just didn't exist?
Do you think there would even BE an alt-right the way we know it today if there weren't left-wing extremists? No, it'd be a fringe group of a dozen whackjobs stuck in the 1800s that would be a complete joke to an entire nation.


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## Thaeon (Apr 16, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think that you thought about what I said _*at all*_.
> At no point was there ever an indication made that when someone does something it's someone else's fault, that's insanity. To insinuate that the incessant media coverage of these fringe extremes isn't pushing people further to the left/right is also...to be blunt, complete fantasy.
> 
> You can't constantly tell the populace "oh yeah, our country is filled with racists and fascists," and expect people to not start to think "Oh shit, our country is actually filled with racists and fascists, we need to do something about this before things get out of control." Granted sure, you have to pre-disposed to that notion to some extent, but if you tell people something often enough eventually they'll start to believe it, and showing up at a demonstration with the intent of causing someone actual physical harm isn't that far of a stretch if you honestly think this person and their fans think Hitler was a great guy.
> ...



"Every time the alt right does some stupid clowny shit, they create more radical leftists. Every time the radical lefists do some clowny stupid shit, they push more people toward the alt right. These people don't realize that they are literally creating the people they're so vocally against." 

This statement patently lays the blame at the feet of opposing groups and leaves no room for personal culpability. However, I'm using a bit of hyperbole to make my point because I don't believe you actually think that. 

You're right that these groups couldn't exist without each other. They feed off of each other's activity. My point is that the "whackjobs" discover each other and organize because of the web, and are given reason to make bold moves because the media eye will linger on those who are like them, not those who piss them off. People rarely do bold things that are contrary to social norms unless they have a large enough group to make them feel like they aren't alone or on dangerous ground. We are inherently social, and don't do things unless we see some ground to gain in a social hierarchy. The radical things done by one group may inspire action from a specific group that has chosen to organize themselves around a set of ideas. But those ideas were in the heads of the individuals before they identified with that group. They may have been fleeting thoughts and just needed something to help them take root. They were already there and that person was willing to entertain them. The proof is in the fact that these ideas have existed as far back as we have written history. The fact that these groups need each other to exist doesn't mean that if one didn't exist, literally all the people that would have been in said groups suddenly stop thinking the bonkers shit that they think. They just wouldn't be making a bunch of noise about what they think because there wouldn't be a social climate they felt safe making that noise in. There are a few motivating factors in humans. Most based in need. You aren't going to risk one need for another unless the perceived threat to another need exceeds the need for access to a more basic one.


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## @zwen (Oct 17, 2019)

I’m finding now that being a mainstream conservative harping on “snowflakes” and “social studies warriors” inspires equal derision from both the Left and the Far Right.


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