# Playing guitar in an apartment (noise level/angry neighbor woes)



## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

I have been living in apartments for 4 years and I have never gotten complaints about the level of my playing until this past few months. I moved into an old apartment with weaker floors (sound-wise) than is usual now-a-days. I play my guitar plugged in and my french horn periodically throughout the week (never for long at a time and not all 7 days). My downstairs neighbor is a bit of a shut in and I can hear his TV on at most times of the day and the night. He has recently been complaining about the noise of my guitar in the middle of the day to the apartment management, and when I confronted him peaceably he was very rude and told me to go practice somewhere else or move out .

I play at what my girlfriend and I perceive to be very reasonable levels and never past 8 at night and never before 11 AM. I also put heavy carpeting down under my amp to dilute some of the noise. The apartment people seem to be siding with me and say that no action will be taken but I still want to get some feedback

What do you all consider to be appropriate levels/times of day for guitar/musical instrument practice? Thoughts or opinions on this topic are welcome. This is my first experience with this and im assuming many of you have had experiences like this as well. Thanks a lot.


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## Baelzebeard (Mar 5, 2013)

Bang on the floor and complain when you can hear his tv. Just never act angry/threatening, that won't help.


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## InfinityCollision (Mar 5, 2013)

Baelzebeard said:


> Bang on the floor and complain when you can hear his tv. Just never act angry/threatening, that won't help.



Bad advice, looks bad to management. Let the other guy be the asshole.

You seem to have taken the appropriate steps and you're not practicing at odd hours, I wouldn't worry about it. Some people are just cranky.


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## skeels (Mar 5, 2013)

Headphones. Loud in your brain and can't hear anything else.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

I get the headphones suggestion a lot but my amp does not have a headphone jack. Also I am not in a band and don't have much opportunity to go anywhere else to practice so the only way to hear the actual sound of my guitar and amp is to play at home. I suppose if I had weekly band practice and played shows I wouldn't care as much about hearing quality sound while I practice, but my apartment practicing is the extent of my guitar playing. Also I can't change the volume on my french horn and I never play my guitar any louder than the horn. Idk I'm just raging right now and im not really going to change my practice routine. I just thought it would be nice to get some feedback from other guitar players.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Mar 5, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> Bad advice, looks bad to management. Let the other guy be the asshole.
> 
> You seem to have taken the appropriate steps and you're not practicing at odd hours, I wouldn't worry about it. Some people are just cranky.



+1

Some people just like to bitch. You're being considerate (the carpets and the hours you play) and you've done all the right things concerning the management. If you still feel like you are too loud, consider getting a POD HD or some other sort of simulator and some nice headphones. You're going about this way better than I would


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

I think the chief problem atm is that my downstairs neighbor is essentially house ridden and really old. Plus the apartments were made in like the 20s and the sound insulation is not as great as any of the other places Ive lived. That being said, everyone living here has to get on with their life anyway and I'm well within my legal rights so theres no need to buy expensive equipment imo just to play guitar. It would be interesting to see what the sound quality was like with headphones but alas my amp has no jack for headphones. I think this is a learning experience about apartment hunting. Sound insulation matters. Is there essentially only a 2X4 seperating you and your neighbor? Then you guys are going to hear essentially everything that goes on in each others apartments. I would say the circumstance should warrant more leeway and understanding between neighbors about noise (like I have given to him about his TV and some of my other neighbors about loud parties occasionally) but apparently he is not willing to offer me the same courtesy.


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## Masc0t (Mar 5, 2013)

Similar suggestion to Captain Butterscotch with the Pod HD, but you could also try it with 2 5 inch studio monitors like the KRK Rokits and then at least your playing is off the ground and more directional. Giving your neighbor the benefit of the doubt, it could be the fact that your sound is still getting trapped in the floor.

Edit:

Of course regardless its ridiculous you would have to get rid of your current playing rig just because of an old grump.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

> Bad advice, looks bad to management. Let the other guy be the asshole.
> 
> You seem to have taken the appropriate steps and you're not practicing at odd hours, I wouldn't worry about it. Some people are just cranky.



Ya I never wanted to sink down to his level. The apartment people encouraged me to call them if I hear his TV at inappropriate times or levels but I don't want to go even further in the direction of confrontation with this guy. I don't want to aggravate him and cause more issues.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

> you could also try it with 2 5 inch studio monitors like the KRK Rokits and then at least your playing is off the ground and more directional.



I think it is important to muffle the reverberations because that is probably where most of the sound comes from but like I said I'm not really that loud. Also this suggestion falls under the expensive equipment category that I'm not willing to delve into just to satisfy an uncompromising grouchy old man.


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## shadowlife (Mar 5, 2013)

If you have some extra $$$ (are you getting a tax refund?), one of those Yamaha THR amps would be ideal. Sit it up on a table or chair, get great tones at whisper volumes if need be, and do all the practicing you want.


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## Leuchty (Mar 5, 2013)

like I said in another thread: Impregnate your girlfriend. That'll give him something to complain about. We'll see who moves out first!

Seriously...

Ask him to discuss it with you.

Tell him you need to practice and that he should suggest a reasonable time you can make a bit of noise. 

Tell him you know the floors are thin because "I can hear your TV at times which doesn't bother me" and that you would like to come to some sort of agreement/arrangement.

Remember "love thy neighbour" 

You could also seek advice from managment and ask them what they think would be a reasonable compromise. Therefore when he complains to them they will say: "sir, we do NOT see a problem" "we would appreciate if you were a little more tolerant of others in the building."

Good luck mate.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Mar 5, 2013)

If all of these suggestions fail: arsenic.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 5, 2013)

> Ask him to discuss it with you.
> 
> Tell him you need to practice and that he should suggest a reasonable time you can make a bit of noise.
> 
> ...


Thanks man! I actually said all these things to him. The first thing he said to me was he told me to Move Out! I tried to reason with him by talking about his TV and how we could compromise. I also told him that I had no where else to go and that I should feel comfortable playing at reasonable times and levels in my own home and that I am applying to the MSU music school and I cant just not play. I told him I'd move my amp to whatever room was farthest from his TV room but he wasnt even looking at me and had his door barely cracked open. He even had the nerve to shut his door on me. I suppose I should also mention that his late night TV viewing involves some rather adult content and that needed bringing up as well. So I suppose I will meet with the people at the office tomorrow and try to let them understand whats happening so I don't get in trouble with anyone.


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## Metal_Webb (Mar 5, 2013)

From the sounds of it he's just a grumpy old man and nothing you can do will change the situation. Keep playing by the rules and shouldn't have any problems with management in the long run.


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## crg123 (Mar 5, 2013)

Haha "late night tv ... adult content" and a shut in, sounds like a stand up guy haha. You can't get in trouble if you're not playing after 8. Just stick to your guns and inform your landlords of the situation. I wouldn't sweat it, some people just hate the world.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> Haha "late night tv ... adult content" and a shut in, sounds like a stand up guy haha. You can't get in trouble if you're not playing after 8. Just stick to your guns and inform your landlords of the situation. I wouldn't sweat it, some people just hate the world.


Well to be fair hes handicapped and old so he cant do much about his situation which I should have mentioned. And I sympathize with him. It must be hard to live his life. There are other options for care in his scenario but apparently he is very stubborn about keeping that apartment. All the power to him to make his own choices I guess. This changes nothing about his un-neighborly behavior and all around rudeness though. Thanks for all your support, everyone.


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## idithere (Mar 6, 2013)

*Quick fix: Buy Headphones and only you will hear it. *


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## jwade (Mar 6, 2013)

idithere said:


> *Quick fix: Buy Headphones and only you will hear it. *



Killer suggestion by the new guy that doesn't read through threads before posting.


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## Hollowway (Mar 6, 2013)

Wouldn't do anything different. Having lived in apartments for 10 years I would say that you're well above average in terms of being a reasonable neighbor. Whatever you do, don't let this guy change you or your life, or your gear, or your etc. If you want to want to make changes in your like listen to Ghandi, MLK, Mother Theresa, Steve Jobs, your mom, etc. Not some lunatic downstairs. Us nice guys spend too much of our lives bending to selfish people and not enough time sticking up for ourselves.


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## Leuchty (Mar 6, 2013)

Change his "hand lotion" with "extra hot sauce".

Shit dude, that situation really sucks. 

Just go on with your life and abide by the Landlords rules. Maybe mention the "Loud late night adult content that may have psychological affect on you."


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## Overtone (Mar 6, 2013)

Those Yamaha amps mentioned really are the most decent small queit thing I've played on so far. I also vouch for the GRAMMA/Great Gramma... they help a little, but probably not enough in this case. The thing is that nobody can discriminate about the source of a noise if it is the same volume as other noises. People have this idea that just because it's music coming out of an instrument, it's a problem, even if it's no louder than a TV or a barking dog or a conversation. 

I know the feeling though... it's not only frustrating but it gets in your head while you are playing. Just hang in there and hopefully this jerk will get bored of complaining about it. 

I'm actually kinda concerned because I'm moving into an apt. soon. My GF did all the apt hunting and she thought it was really well insulated when she checked it out. Now she is the first one living there and she says she hears the neighbors talking, the dog down the hall, etc... All I know is I'm going to try and keep everybody happy but there is nothing that will stop me from spending as much time as I want to practicing/writing/mixing. I do plan to get a rehearsal studio because it's useful for recording demo stuff and for really being able to go at it without having to constrain myself, and also to get a band started. Is that an option for you? I looked at the apt. hunt as something where it would be ideal to find a place where noise was not an issue, but I knew that could never be guaranteed so I budgeted a rehearsal studio.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> Us nice guys spend too much of our lives bending to selfish people and not enough time sticking up for ourselves.


I was just telling my gf this. I try to be too nice sometimes and let people walk all over me. I'm glad I confronted him like an adult this time even though it turned out not that pleasant. I am not going to change my life, it is just intrusive to be getting knocks on my door from him and calls on my phone from the office being like "sooo were required to tell you that you got a noise complaint. blah blah". Thanks for getting me through this rant everyone. I feel more at peace now.  I really do love this forum.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> Maybe mention the "Loud late night adult content that may have psychological affect on you."


The most disturbing part is that the room that you can hear the porn in was previously the room of a toddler... 



> I do plan to get a rehearsal studio because it's useful for recording demo stuff and for really being able to go at it without having to constrain myself, and also to get a band started. Is that an option for you?



Sadly no. Not until I get a job and then I will probably just barely being able to pay my bills. I'm still in college and I don't want to work more than part time so anything that requires money is usually a no go (except when I get GAS of course.) And the ease of use of my place is ideal for practicing since I have two instruments to practice and the urge to practice either of them usually just comes as a whim that comes and goes on its own lol.


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## AliceLG (Mar 6, 2013)

I had this situation with a grumpy neighbour. After one and a half years in my appartment and no complains about volume a grumpy guy moved in and started complaining to me. I asked the landlord and he told me that the volume didn't bother him or anyone else for that matter, just this guy. I stuck to my guns for a while and then he started complaining directly to the landlord. So I switched to headphones for a while, and it sucked but at least this asshole wouldn't complain so much. One day I decided I had enough and played through my amp at my normal volume, and he came upstairs and told me that I was disturbing him. I told him that he was interrupting my practice time, that I'm a working musician (an overstatement but what the hell) and that the more he interrupts me the longer I'll have to practice, and that he was the only one bitching about it, so the problem might be rooted elsewhere.

He moved out 2 weeks after. I haven't used my headphones for practice since.

That might not be your case, as your problem neighbour doesn't seem relocatable at all. But sometimes these kind of problems sort themselves out.


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## devolutionary (Mar 6, 2013)

OK, I'm going out on a limb here, but I assume it is on the floor sitting with the base level? If so, raise it up and angle it more in the direction your ears are in when you're playing. It removes a lot of the vibrational elements and also means you get the sound straight on, which can improve the volume you are receiving.


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## sleightest (Mar 6, 2013)

I like to play with my HD with headphones to dial in my tone and if I play at night but from like 10-10 I can be pretty fucking loud. My apartment is on the end of the complex so I have an alley on one side, cool neighbors that are at school or just gone most of the day and I live above the laundry room 
Still I doubt people can hear me in the alley unless they go right up to my window, I crank it enough so Im getting a "full" sound from the tubes (100 watt head) and Im playing a 2x12 well below a earplug/drums level but loud enough that it would probably irritate someone at 2 am


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> If I was in an apartment and had a horn player next to me I'd be pissed as hell.



Hes below me and im not blasting away at all hours. Also this is the attitude that I hate to hear. Selfish and uncompromising. I need to feel comfortable enough to play in my own home at reasonable hours. I play for 30-45 min/day at most and not every day. I've had neighbors who were in orchestras or bands and it should be understood that they need to practice. If they need to practice for many hours on end or with an ensemble then thats something that can be done in a practice room but for short practices I don't think I should give in to this kind of attitude. It's not at all unreasonable to want to practice a musical instrument during the day in my home.



> OK, I'm going out on a limb here, but I assume it is on the floor sitting with the base level? If so, raise it up and angle it more in the direction your ears are in when you're playing. It removes a lot of the vibrational elements and also means you get the sound straight on, which can improve the volume you are receiving.



Good Idea, maybe Ill do that. Just prop it up a bit.


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## elrrek (Mar 6, 2013)

What wattage is your amp and how loud are you playing?

To be honest though, if you can hear the guys TV when you are not playing and he is not doing anything about that, then he has no grounds to complain.


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## cronux (Mar 6, 2013)

isn't there something like a "domestic law" in affect if you are living in an apartment? (domestic law - pardon my english, don't really know how to translate it from my language, the law that governs most activities of people living in apartment buildings)

by law you are permitted to play at normal, even higher levels (or watch tv etc.) every day between let's say 12:00 - 20:00. the only way your neighbor can go "around" that is by calling the proper authorities that dabble in measuring noise levels of clubs in apartment neighbourhoods. if he calls them, they would come to his apartment and measure the noise level, if it exceeds the level stated by law you won't be able to play guitar any more in that apartment (at least not at that level)

but i just think that you have a bitchy neighbor


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

I have a 75 watt combo amp and I have my overdrive and clean level around 2 and my master around 2. I can have a conversation easily while playing and my gf agrees that it is a reasonable volume. I think that most of the sound comes from reverberations honestly. I like the idea of propping my amp up to decrease that. My french horn is a bit louder but I don't blast it and it is not connected to the floor like my amp is so i assume it creates a similar amount of noise.

Ya he said that he turns his TV up to drown out my guitar but im like "dude I can hear your TV always, and I only play electric guitar like a few times a week for less than an hour usually".


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> . the only way your neighbor can go "around" that is by calling the proper authorities that dabble in measuring noise levels of clubs in apartment neighbourhoods. if he calls them, they would come to his apartment and measure the noise level, if it exceeds the level stated by law you won't be able to play guitar any more in that apartment (at least not at that level)


This is what im hoping doesnt happen. I'm definitely not breaking any laws so theres nothing to worry about there. My lease only says not to have excessive noise or odors and that tenets have to work these things out between themselves and the management is not responsible. Like I said, I'm going to talk to them tomorrow and get some details on what we can do if the complaining continues. Its beginning to invade my head when I go to practice which dissuades me from practicing. I try to avoid conflict


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## Senensis (Mar 6, 2013)

Keep with your reasonable hours so you don't attract too much attention. Also, I found out that having the speaker sit on this http://www.foampackaging.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pu-foam-packaging-6.jpg attenuates a lot of vibrations, and make the percieved volume through walls much less.

And for the horn, I assume you use some kind of dampener like http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/pic-007707016s/denis-wick-dw-5530-uebungsdaempfer-mute-brass.jpg ?


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

That foam packing idea is great. Cheap too. I am not using anything to control the volume of my horn though. Its really not as loud as you'd think. It doesnt shake the earth like a tuba and Im not screaming my heart out with it. I play the dynamics that are required for the piece but I just dont get blasty. If I were in an orchestra setting or just anywhere where I could really let loose than ya Id hit those fortisimo passages with more oomph but I dont want to use something to mute my instrument because I need to do some hand muting parts in pieces.


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## abandonist (Mar 6, 2013)

Egg crate foam does wonders for dampening.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Mar 6, 2013)

shredguitar7690 said:


> I suppose I should also mention that his late night TV viewing involves some rather adult content and that needed bringing up as well.


 
"Turn down the porn or I'll blow my horn" lol.

Grumpy old men can be hard to deal with, I guess it's a matter of finding the right approach.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> When I did live in an apartment I was in a constant fight with my neighbor about his screaming infant. I have no sympathy that you decided to have a child. Won't stop crying? Take it out to your fucking car and sit with it in there. I'm trying to sleep.



Ya not sure if your trolling or not, but if you aren't I'm sure you and my neighbor would get along. I guess there really are two kinds of people in the world.  The dog would get annoying though, Ill give you that.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> "Turn down the porn or I'll blow my horn" lol.
> 
> Grumpy old men can be hard to deal with, I guess it's a matter of finding the right approach.



Ya he was very briefly sorry about the porn but clearly he didn't value the comparison between his loud porn at 1 AM and my guitar at 1 PM. Let's see, whos in the wrong here? lol


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## guitarfishbay (Mar 6, 2013)

shredguitar7690 said:


> I think that most of the sound comes from reverberations honestly. I like the idea of propping my amp up to decrease that. My french horn is a bit louder but I don't blast it and it is not connected to the floor like my amp is so i assume it creates a similar amount of noise.



Raising your amp off the floor completely will make a big difference to what he hears. Don't just angle it, get a combo stand or put it on a stool or chair and get all corners of the amp off the floor. That should help a lot.

I can sympathise with this on several levels, as I bet can most people.

I'll leave you with the story of my samba percussion band...

A year ago we had to change rehearsal space due to a massive rent increase on the studio time, so we moved in to a Church. We practice there only once per week.

The Church is about 20-25 meters away from the nearest block of flats and in between the Church and flats is a main road.

We only rehearse between 7pm and 9:30pm on Wednesday night, and all locals were informed that this would be the case.

Yet we still got a complaint from someone, and subsequently had a noise inspection... We passed, as the walls/windows and distance contain enough sound to be ok by the local council. 

However we were then told by the Church Vicar that he could guess who was complaining - as there is a local guy who regularly complains about the Church bells.... I mean seriously? If you live next to a Church with bells, what do you expect happens?

Some people just don't like noise they don't create themselves.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

Ya I equate living in an apartment to living in a house with someone who isnt allowed on your floor. You are going to hear things and you both just have to be respectful. You are essentially sharing a space with someone. Apartments have their advantages and disadvantages. The fact that you share an area with a bunch of strangers is a disadvantage. If he thinks he can get total peace and quiet at all times of the day then thats just not the case. A way to circumvent that is to get your own property but then you have to take care of it yourself and its often more expensive so there you go. Live with other peoples lives going on just upstairs and through the wall from you and deal with it or get another living situation. Its all about compromise when your that close to other peoples lives.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

On top of my bed! Brilliant. And yes abandonist you are really painting yourself in a bad light here. Your coming off as inconsiderate and self centered. Maybe thats why you have so much neg rep. I hope you have a baby some day and realize how your being right now.


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## mcd (Mar 6, 2013)

one thing i notice with having the amp on my bed/elevated, is I hear it better at lower volumes. I feel i get to know the ins and outs of my gear better this way. (Im also hard of hearing on low tones and need it angled at my face.)


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

I may put it on my bed or I may tilt it up until i can find a support for it to get off the ground. My bedroom is really small thats all. and my amp is rather big and a bit dirty probably from being on the floor all the time. I could get a towel and put it underneath it to play on my bed though. Idk but ya Id like avoid confrontation cause right now the situation seems like its a stalemate and Im just going to keep taking flak from this guy whenever he thinks im being loud.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

> I am inconsiderate and self centered in my personal life.


Well ok as long as we agree


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## hairychris (Mar 6, 2013)

shredguitar7690 said:


> I may put it on my bed or I may tilt it up until i can find a support for it to get off the ground. My bedroom is really small thats all. and my amp is rather big and a bit dirty probably from being on the floor all the time. I could get a towel and put it underneath it to play on my bed though. Idk but ya Id like avoid confrontation cause right now the situation seems like its a stalemate and Im just going to keep taking flak from this guy whenever he thinks im being loud.



Hit an electronics store and see if they have any left over polystyrene packaging, and improvise a stand with some duct tape!

Having spent much of my life in apartments the noise from above is much more intrusive then noise from below... although 1am screaming pr0nz sessions maybe aren't. 

Still, it sounds like your neighbour's taking his shit life out on other people. Don't hesitate to get management involved further if necessary (on late night antics as above).


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## thedonal (Mar 6, 2013)

My amp is 45W and still bloody loud. I'm considering a POD HD for late practice with amp sound (rather than just unplugged exercises) and portability (ie I don't have a car and the amp is effing heavy!).

I'm lucky in that I have fairly tolerant neighbours and have made a point of being approachable if noise is a problem, but some people just want it their way...I am also quite conscious of how loud the amp is.

POD solution aside, I would speak directly to the landlord and make sure that you are square with them- they are the first point for deciding if you stay or go. 30 minutes daytime is completely acceptable in my humble, within reasonable volume limits...


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## thedonal (Mar 6, 2013)

Incidentally, egg boxes do pretty much fark all for the frequencies that will be travelling downstairs- you'd need a thicker absorber like rockwool and as your amp will be resting on the floor somehow, low frequencies will still transfer..


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## BaptizedBurning (Mar 6, 2013)

I have one of these in my apartment. As far as I know, it works great so far. The downstairs neighbors haven't complained anyway.

Amazon.com: Auralex GRAMMA: Amp and Monitor Isolation Riser, Charcoal, Single: Musical Instruments

Hello Music recently had them for $30, but maybe they'll get a batch again soon.


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## Leuchty (Mar 6, 2013)

abandonist said:


> Oh, you're very wrong there. I'm kind of famous - just not for music.



You're Prince aren't you...


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## troyguitar (Mar 6, 2013)

Noise is noise. You don't get a free pass to make noise if you have a kid or a dog or a TV or a tuba. If you're going to make a lot of noise for any reason then you should live somewhere that is better insulated.

For a guitar amp the best way to lower the volume is to pick it up off the ground and play with the speaker at ear level.


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## DarkWolfXV (Mar 6, 2013)

CYBERSYN said:


> You're Prince aren't you...


 
So Prince hates djent and kickstarter?


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## groverj3 (Mar 6, 2013)

Hello fellow (future) Spartan!

I can sympathize with you. I had never gotten a noise complaint before this winter at my apartment complex here in Kzoo. I had lived in the dorms at MSU and several complexes in EL before moving here following graduation. Never had a problem. I don't play my guitar louder than normal TV-watching volume either.

My upstairs neighbor here must have been having a bad day or something. She was banging on my ceiling for what must have been 20 minutes straight while I was playing one day. However, I stopped playing and it continued, so I assumed it had nothing to do with my playing. I figured she must've either been moving furniture or taking a vigorous banging (it WAS pretty rhythmic!). The next day at work I get a voicemail from the apartment complex stating that she issued a noise complaint . She even went as far as to lie and say that she knocked on my door to ask me to stop.

Issue was resolved when I went to the apartment office and explained that I never play later than 10pm without headphones and the volume is not excessive, hence, why nobody else has ever complained in the complex. I left a note explaining to her that, yes, I do play and I will continue to do so... however, if the volume is too loud please knock on my door instead of banging on my ceiling for 20 minutes. Haven't had an issue since.

This goes along with living in an apartment. Unfortunately, some people have unrealistic expectations.


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## Overtone (Mar 6, 2013)

Seriously not a bad idea to make your own gramma if you can't afford one. Might even be more effective if you are creative about it.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 6, 2013)

I like all these suggestions about dampening my noise. Unfortunately that wont change for my horn but he seems to have most of his problem with my guitar even though my horn is louder. This furthers my thinking that I should find some cheap type of dampening. So ill look into all these suggestions but at the same time my other goal is not to run from this problem. Im going to talk to management because I know that I am well within my rights (extreme dampening precautions aside).


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## 8last (Mar 7, 2013)

If the old man is rude and the apartment hasn't contacted you to stop I would let the issue drop. Making a thing out of it isn't going to help you.


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## shredguitar7690 (Mar 7, 2013)

I talked to the people at the office and they seem to be on my side but if he calls again they said they can come over and see for themselves how loud it is. And its not that loud so then it would be problem solved. I plan to not escalate things though.


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## ArrowHead (Mar 7, 2013)

shredguitar7690 said:


> And its not that loud so then it would be problem solved.



Are you sure it's not that loud?

I've lived (and played) in a condo for 14 years. I've been on both ends of these types of noise complaints, and every time it boils down to not realizing how much louder things were in the other guy's apartment.

Most apartments and condos are built like crap, with no insulation between floors. Certain sounds (like conversation) filter out, but others will go through and AMPLIFY into other apartments. So they won't hear any of the talking on your television, for example, but every low end crash and bang is louder in their apartment than it is in yours. If this guy is complaining about the guitar, and not the horn, there's a good chance this is the case.

I use headphones a lot. I gave up on amps. I dismantled my e-drums. I keep the sub off and the bass low on my television/stereo setup. 

I really understood how bad it can be from the other guy's perspective when I went to complain about a neighbor whose music was so loud, it was drowning out my television. I went to speak to them, and from in their own apartment it was not even loud. Lower than conversation level. But somehow the sound was greatly amplified by the time it made it into my apartment above them.

So don't judge how loud something is by how loud it is to you in your own apartment. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and offer to come over his apartment to see how loud it is and if there's anything that can be done. Remember, you have to live together. And while you may have the association on your side this time, eventually you'll want to bend a rule that he can nail you on. A pet, a party, etc... - it's best to get him on your side. Vice verse - invite him over to hear how quiet it is on your end.

Decouple the amp too, get it off the floor. Seems like the likely source of your problem. Amps, even small ones, tend to be a bit louder than "t.v. volume" as well. I can't even use a 15 watt solid state peavey blazer without it being too loud.


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## Matt_D_ (Mar 7, 2013)

you run your amp on 2 and its at an "ok" level? wow, i think you might be going deaf 

in my flat I run a pod HD 500 into a marshal 410H and an orange 2x12 cab. I run the pod through green clean channel, and the master volume is on about 0.1, and i use the pod's master to attenuate further when i want to, and its still loud enough for me to switch to headphones at night. basically, its about the same level as my television. on 2, id have most of the unit complex beating on my door ready to kill me. all amps are different, but for a 75watt combo, thats going to be pretty loud, hell, i've got my brothers AC30 in my flat at the moment, and its too loud to run *period*. 

anyway, try and match the level of your guitar to that of your tv. crank it once in a while, but if your amp is louder than your tv in your flat. you're probably annoying your neighbors even if you dont think its that loud in your flat, bass travels a long way too, as was suggested, get the cab off the floor, and some foam/basstraps would work well. 

If you want a cheap headphone option, the pocket pod is a great little device for silent practice.

good luck, some neighbors are just assholes and you're doing totally the right thing by letting him be "that guy". 

if all else fails, try moving to somewhere made out of concrete  gl!


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## HaloHat (Mar 8, 2013)

Three things...

1. See if he would be interested in playing bass or drums.
2 & 3 - There are laws. You local city laws and the contract you signed when you rented the place, which is the legal document that should cover issues like you are having [but probably does not. Most landlords are too cheap to pay a professional for a good contract or to manage the place for them until them get sued and lose a bunch of cash or have a professional dead beat take them for several months free rent. Then they see the light. Usually.]

Being in real estate for a long time, it would not surprise me if your landlord has anywhere from a really good contract to absolutely nothing at all but a verbal agreement [pay the rent you stay, don't your gone] with you.

So, first look at your rental agreement [it is a contract] and see if it mentions hours related to noise specifically. Then see if it addresses tenant complaint resolution. If yes, follow the contract stipulations and document everything you do [date, time, persons etc]

Jump on-line to your city/county codes, landlord tenant laws etc. That is pretty much black and white.

Secret weapon aka #4 - Is your girl friend cute? Have her bake the old fart some cookies and deliver them to him with a big smile and have her mention how it would suck if you had to move so you could practice your guitar. 5 minutes kindness from your girlfriend prob get you hours of practice time. And no, I don't mean she acts slutty, you guys thinking that shame! Girl next store [literally?] apple pie and pigtails. Nice girl.

Super last resort emergency aka #5 - Find out of the killer gray downstairs "likes" anything in this world still. Game of checkers or chess, buy him a book, take him down some home cooked dinner once in a while. Basically do something nice for the ol' guy and see if that works. Kill him with kindness and see if he'll give you a break [not that you owe him one, you don't].


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## will_shred (Mar 8, 2013)

if you have the $$ you could always buy one of those load boxes with cab sims and a headphone jack  I suppose it depends on if you would prefer that over a POD HD

I can't remember the brand name, I know Keith demmo'd one a while back

I don't really have anything else to add


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## ilyti (Mar 8, 2013)

I have to agree with all the people suggesting a POD HD. I bought one a couple of years ago, and it's one of the most useful pieces of gear I've owned. One of the biggest reasons why is that I can experiment with sounds and effects with headphones, and the volume being high or low does not affect the quality of the sound. What you hear is what you get, and is what will be recorded directly into your computer. And they are the most practical thing for living in apartments.

I have an OK apartment living situation right now, but it wasn't always like that. I have neighbours who are young enough not to care if I turn it up once in awhile, but having the POD means I can work at any and all hours. It just makes sense. 

I sympathize deeply that your neighbour is a grumpy old bastard. I've dealt with that before, and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do to make this guy less of a bastard. No matter what sound dampening efforts you make, this guy has made up his mind about you and that's not going to change. With any luck, his kids will insist he moves into an old folks home soon. 

A similar thing happened in my building - this grumpy old couple lived there for 20 years, but eventually they left because several neighbours complained (more than once) about the smoke smell they caused. And the guy in the apartment above them was noisy and arrogant, that eventually they figured it wasn't worth it anymore, and they moved to an old folks home, which is where they should have been for some time anyway. 









_*tl;dr *If you are going to live in apartments for the forseeable future, get a POD. It eliminates the worry about "Oh is this building soundproofed enough?" forever. Old bastard neighbours stay old bastards, there's no reasoning with them, so don't even try. Eventually they die or move out._


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## goherpsNderp (Mar 8, 2013)

shredguitar7690 said:


> I like all these suggestions about dampening my noise. Unfortunately that wont change for my horn but *he seems to have most of his problem with my guitar even though my horn is louder.* This furthers my thinking that I should find some cheap type of dampening. So ill look into all these suggestions but at the same time my other goal is not to run from this problem. Im going to talk to management because I know that I am well within my rights (extreme dampening precautions aside).



sounds like he has an axe to grind and doesn't like guitar playing or the culture he has somehow associated with it inside his mind.

did you mention to management that your horn is louder but he only complains about the guitar?


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## ArrowHead (Mar 9, 2013)

goherpsNderp said:


> sounds like he has an axe to grind and doesn't like guitar playing or the culture he has somehow associated with it inside his mind.
> 
> did you mention to management that your horn is louder but he only complains about the guitar?



As I already explained, louder in the room doesn't mean louder in the next apartment. Low frequencies travel further. It's never safe to assume something like that - go visit the neighbor and see how loud it is for yourself.


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## DrZoidberg (Mar 9, 2013)

I used to have the same problem. I lived in an apartment and my upstairs neighbor would throw a tantrum and stomp on the floor every time I turned my amp on. (On the lowest volume possible.) I wouldn't mind so much, if I hadn't heard EVERY step the fatass took. I knew what he was watching on TV all the time because I could hear it, but oh lord if I should try and practice (which being a music student I do a lot of) he'd act like an angry 12 year old kid. After I got tired of this and hearing sex noises (from him, not her) I decided to show him just how bad it could be if I was an asshole. (Which I am.) 

So we had ourselves a little noise war. Needless to say, my half stack easily beat out his shitty rap music. It sucks when you try to be nice and respectable, and a grown man has to resort to acting like a child. My landlord threatened me, and the other musicians I knew that lived in the building. I even informed him that I was a music student and he said that it'd be no problem, but less than a month after I moved into the place the war with my neighbor began. My advice to move out (I know that's not reasonable, but I felt so much better after I did.) or get some comfy headphones.


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## Joose (Mar 9, 2013)

My amp is useless in my apartment. It and my pedals are all setup for high volumes. Damn 400 watt Hybrid, lol. Whatever, I still love it.

I do have a Line 6 Spider III 2x10 in here too though. I just have it held up by 2 stools. As long as it isn't on the floor or touching a wall, people don't seem to complain.


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