# Oh my dear...xbox 720?!?!



## kerska (Jan 25, 2012)

In another year and a half we'll all probably have to dish out like $600 for these. 

More Power! Microsoft's New Xbox 720 Will Be 6x More Powerful [REPORT] - Yahoo! News


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## Guitarman700 (Jan 25, 2012)

6x more powerful....but still not even close to a high end gaming PC.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 25, 2012)

The more powerful and complicated the console, the more effort it will take to develope games for it. The more effort it takes to develope games, the more they will cost to be made. The more money they cost to be made, the less risk investors and publishers are going to be willing to take. Be prepared for even _more_ samey games that are the gaming equivalent of "summer blockbusters," like we've already been seeing hints of with the current console generation. More sequels, more remakes, more safe bets, less creativity, fewer exciting new IPs.

Sometimes I wish we'd just put a freeze on hardware developement, and instead of cranking out a new one just as developers are finally starting to really sink their teeth into the current generation consoles' abilities, we'd actually give them a few years to crank out some high quality games for a few years while they're all at the top of their game. That's not going to happen, though, and there are going to be some great current-gen developed games that are going to be rushed ports over to the new consoles that are buggy as shit and not as good as they'd have been on older tech.


Grumble grumble grumble.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm ready for a new Xbox. The 360 is starting to look its age.


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## Mordacain (Jan 25, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> 6x more powerful....but still not even close to a high end gaming PC.



In raw power perhaps. The reason you can see amazing results on consoles that can sometimes rival high-end PCs with actual games is having a static set of hardware to develop on. Reducing the number of variables in the components allows developers to push what they've got a lot farther in a far more efficient way.

I'm not saying that to lead to a PC vs console debate, those have been done to death (and I was an avid performance system builder for years); I merely mean that there have been several games from this generation that I've played multi-platform and have preferred playing on the console (Skyrim, Dragon Age 2 among the top). There have also been some games developed on console that I've not seen the equal of on a PC (God of War 3, Uncharted 3). 

Personally, I feel new hardware is required to ultimately keep gaming evolving and to keep from having nothing but sequel after sequel. Some of the greatest new IPs have been launch titles (or very early) on their respective platforms (Halo, Uncharted, Gears of War).

My


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## nojyeloot (Jan 25, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I'm ready for a new Xbox. The 360 is starting to look its age.



^ 
You must play *A LOT* of games.

OP: Thanks for posting this. Cool update in the gaming world.


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## Guitarman700 (Jan 25, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> In raw power perhaps. The reason you can see amazing results on consoles that can sometimes rival high-end PCs with actual games is having a static set of hardware to develop on. Reducing the number of variables in the components allows developers to push what they've got a lot farther in a far more efficient way.
> 
> I'm not saying that to lead to a PC vs console debate, those have been done to death (and I was an avid performance system builder for years); I merely mean that there have been several games from this generation that I've played multi-platform and have preferred playing on the console (Skyrim, Dragon Age 2 among the top). There have also been some games developed on console that I've not seen the equal of on a PC (God of War 3, Uncharted 3).
> 
> ...



I agree on most points, admittedly. But the 360, for example, lacks Blu Ray, has a shortage of RAM, among other things. It seems it IS time for a new Xbox...


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## Cheap Poison (Jan 25, 2012)

Damned!
Again i missed the last 719 other xboxses...

I was about time, never took so long for them to jump to the next generation before.


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## kerska (Jan 25, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> The more powerful and complicated the console, the more effort it will take to develope games for it. The more effort it takes to develope games, the more they will cost to be made. The more money they cost to be made, the less risk investors and publishers are going to be willing to take. Be prepared for even _more_ samey games that are the gaming equivalent of "summer blockbusters," like we've already been seeing hints of with the current console generation. More sequels, more remakes, more safe bets, less creativity, fewer exciting new IPs.



I agree, but disagree at the same time. I mean it's going to cost more out the door regardless. But as with any type of new launch, you hold out a few months and the prices drop drastically. Games probably won't get phenomenal right off the bat as I'm sure a lot of games will come out in an attempt to just show off the new possibilities, but Epic and a couple other game studios have already gone public about working on new IPs for the next gen of consoles. I don't think publishers and investors are going to look at this and go, "Oh, new console? Too risky." I'm willing to bet they jump on it. Think about it...A new Call of Duty comes out every year around the same time as they are planning on launching this. Looking at a publisher/investor point of view, they will probably do something like package the console with the new CoD game. That would sell regardless just because it was CoD. It will probably come with blu-ray and all that jazz since PS3 did that. I'm sure they will probably throw some new stuff in there too to try to one-up competition.

As far as new IPs and less creativity...There are always going to be the crossovers like Halo and CoD and all the other heavy hitters, but there will always be cool exclusive IPs and studios that will take risks and start something new. Maybe not right away, but they'll get there.


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## Xaios (Jan 25, 2012)

Someone needs to photoshop Steve Ballmer's face over a picture of Palpatine yelling "UNLIMITED POWAAH!!" as he's zapping Mace Windu with force lightning, although replace Samuel L Jackson with some prominent Nintendo/Sony exec.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 25, 2012)

kerska said:


> I don't think publishers and investors are going to look at this and go, "Oh, new console? Too risky."


 
I don't think they will, either. I think they'll be less likely to jump on new IPs that aren't as likely to get them their money back. That's already happening with the _current_ console generation, and more expensive development is only going to exacerbate it. If anything, they'll invest despite _expecting _to lose money on the hardware (face it, that's pretty much a given) and recoup it on software sales. That'll double their desire to ensure their software investments are safe bets.


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## SpaceDock (Jan 25, 2012)

I am so ready for this.


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## Marv Attaxx (Jan 25, 2012)

I wanna see what sony's coming up with.
Another "as much power as possible but fucking expensive" machine or something that's about the same power as the 720.
I hope for the first lol


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## beneharris (Jan 25, 2012)

so the rumored release isn't even for another year and a half. that means more than likely they are going to try to get it out before christmas, and if they miss that, i would think they would wait to release it until another major holiday, or sales won't be high enough. 

2005-2013ish isn't a bad run. thats double the run of the original xbox.


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## Mexi (Jan 26, 2012)

in fact, Microsoft has said in the past that they wanted an 8 year life cycle for the 360, so the current timeline sounds about right. In all likelihood, Sony will announce their console within 6-8 months of Microsoft because they too have said that they don't want to release their console too far behind the Xbox again, like the PS3


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## Michael T (Jan 26, 2012)

I agree it needs more RAM & faster processor Buuuut, I would be happy if they finally created a console that you could do Software updates on for $50-100 bucks instead of fishing out a few hundred for a whole new system. 
I for one love my 360 & am very content with its performance. Update my software, don't make me buy a new system Damn it !!!
Oh well I'll still buy it, Damn I'm a tool, lol


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## Kwirk (Jan 26, 2012)

Michael T said:


> I agree it needs more RAM & faster processor Buuuut, I would be happy if they finally created a console that you could do Software updates on for $50-100 bucks instead of fishing out a few hundred for a whole new system.
> I for one love my 360 & am very content with its performance. Update my software, don't make me buy a new system Damn it !!!
> Oh well I'll still buy it, Damn I'm a tool, lol


Hardware?


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## ZXIIIT (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm very happy with my Xbox 360 (aside from the RRoD...) I'm not a huge gamer anymore but I'm at the point where I don't care about how powerful a console is if the games for it suck, not to mention really expensive.

I think the 360 will be my last console, I still keep thinking about going back to N64...


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## leandroab (Jan 26, 2012)

Still not worth it


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## guitarister7321 (Jan 26, 2012)

AMD 6000 series


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## Isan (Jan 26, 2012)

An amd 6670 is quite high end ... not top of the line but it is great


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## Mordacain (Jan 26, 2012)

Michael T said:


> I agree it needs more RAM & faster processor Buuuut, I would be happy if they finally created a console that you could do Software updates on for $50-100 bucks instead of fishing out a few hundred for a whole new system.
> I for one love my 360 & am very content with its performance. Update my software, don't make me buy a new system Damn it !!!
> Oh well I'll still buy it, Damn I'm a tool, lol



Software can't really increase performance beyond a certain point. Once the developers discover how to use 100% of the hardware and every coding trick they can use to maximize performance the only way to go from there is with new hardware that has greater computational capabilities.

Also, something to keep in mind, the XBox360 GPU (Xenos) was based largely off of the Radeon R500 series of chips and they kept up quite well with PCs with GPUs 3 generations newer (personally I feel the Xenos only started looking worse for wear around the R800 series. This is because having a set hardware structure allows a developer to really push a piece of hardware; for one, they know its capabilities inside and out and for another, they don't have to code for compatibility across multiple different platform configurations.


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## ZEBOV (Jan 26, 2012)

I wonder what constant problems this Xbox will have that Microsoft will never fix


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## GazPots (Jan 26, 2012)

What problems did the old one have that they didn't fix?


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

The Radeon HD6670 is a good videocard by current standards, but not great. Good bang for the buck. It's roughly as powerful hardware-wise as an Nvidia GeForce 9800GT, which was released in March 2008, although it supports DirectX 11 which wasn't available when the 9800GT came out.


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## HighGain510 (Jan 26, 2012)

Michael T said:


> I agree it needs more RAM & faster processor Buuuut, I would be happy if they finally created a console that you could do Software updates on for $50-100 bucks instead of fishing out a few hundred for a whole new system.
> I for one love my 360 & am very content with its performance. Update my software, don't make me buy a new system Damn it !!!
> Oh well I'll still buy it, Damn I'm a tool, lol



I think you're confused as to how hardware works man.  You can upgrade software (which they have done, prime example would be the latest version of the console dashboard) to fix certain issues but typically there's the benchmark for a certain set of hardware and no amount of software tweaks is going to magically give you a next-gen system via an update.  That would require hardware upgrades, and since they're not doing that very frequently as is you're really not losing out on much unless you JUST bought a new 360 in the past few months.

I, on the other hand, am going to be pissed as shit if the 720 comes out with a Blu-ray player because I finally broke down and bought a PS3 just so I would have a Blu-ray player in the house.


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> I, on the other hand, am going to be pissed as shit if the 720 comes out with a Blu-ray player because I finally broke down and bought a PS3 just so I would have a Blu-ray player in the house.



Why didn't you, you know... just buy a Blu-Ray player?


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> 6x more powerful....but still not even close to a high end gaming PC.


 
Meh... Diff'rent strokes...


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> The more powerful and complicated the console, the more effort it will take to develope games for it. The more effort it takes to develope games, the more they will cost to be made. The more money they cost to be made, the less risk investors and publishers are going to be willing to take. Be prepared for even _more_ samey games that are the gaming equivalent of "summer blockbusters," like we've already been seeing hints of with the current console generation. More sequels, more remakes, more safe bets, less creativity, fewer exciting new IPs.


 
This is the only thing I'm worried about. It seems like the game consoles keep getting better but the games themselves seem to almost all the be same. That said, it completely explains why some people only buy Call of Duty games or <INSERT-SOME-OTHER-TITLE>. If everything is going to be more or less the same anyway why not just play what you know and wait between releases so you're not spending $60 every 3 weeks for another permutation of what is more or less the same game.

Funny thing is... With all the sequels and remakes, they still haven't remade a bunch of games that I actually WOULD like to see redone.


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## Mordacain (Jan 26, 2012)

GazPots said:


> What problems did the old one have that they didn't fix?



I'd wager he's referring to the RROD (Red Ring of Death) issues which were caused by the GPU having an efficient heat-sink that allowed the solder joints to overheat and liquefy, causing the GPU to lose connection with the mainboard. It actually has been fixed and Microsoft instituted a 3 year warranty extension for all of the xbox versions affected (the first 3 with 130nm GPU fab). 

The later versions utilizing newer manufacturing and a more efficient heat-sink don't have the same problems. They can still RROD but that actually is a general failure code which can be caused by any number of issues.

When I worked At EB years ago (PSX era) I saw lots of systems come in for warranty work and 95% of them failed from user abuse (most common were the ones clogged with dust & coated in nicotine residue) though we had a few that were infested with roach nests. I seriously doubt those kind of users stopped abusing their systems. That being said, both of my friends had Xbox's RROD but they both smoke and my original Xbox is still running strong 6 years on.


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> When I worked At EB years ago (PSX era) I saw lots of systems come in for warranty work and 95% of them failed from user abuse (most common were the ones clogged with dust & coated in nicotine residue) *though we had a few that were infested with roach nests*. I seriously doubt those kind of users stopped abusing their systems. That being said, both of my friends had Xbox's RROD but they both smoke and my original Xbox is still running strong 6 years on.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

^ The customer is always right. No such thing as user error... Right? 

Admittedly there's a lot of dust on my 360s... Yea I said it... 360s... I have 2. I already have a 720 bitches... 

... But I should probably dust them...


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## Mordacain (Jan 26, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> When I worked At EB years ago (PSX era) I saw lots of systems come in for warranty work and 95% of them failed from user abuse (most common were the ones clogged with dust & coated in nicotine residue) though we had a few that were infested with roach nests.





Xaios said:


>



Yea, only found out about that when we put heat to the shrink wrap and saw the roaches spilling out of the vents, was major league nasty. 



Konfyouzd said:


> ^ The customer is always right. No such thing as user error... Right?



No. Stupid customers are still stupid no matter how much they might bitch.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> Yea, only found out about that when we put heat to the shrink wrap and saw the roaches spilling out of the vents, was major league nasty.


 That makes my fuckin' skin crawl. I remember one time I went into GameStop and there was a roach crawling on their counter. I never went back to that GameStop. I know it may have come from the boxes when they were unloading shit, but eff that. What's the likelihood I buy something from them that roach has laid eggs in?  



> No. Stupid customers are still stupid no matter how much they might bitch.


 


I know this all too well, my friend.


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## jeremyb (Jan 26, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> 6x more powerful....but still not even close to a high end gaming PC.



Yeah but you don't have to upgrade your console every time the latest game comes out....


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

jeremyb said:


> Yeah but you don't have to upgrade your console every time the latest game comes out....


 
Yea you just have to pay for Xbox Live Gold subscriptions so you can download the update.


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## kerska (Jan 26, 2012)

You know...

Regardless of all the tech specs and the pricing and all the other things that come into play...I can assure you that once this console drops I will probably already have had it on pre-order for a month or so and will be enjoying the living shit out of my Xbox720 when it comes out. 

Once a gamer, always a gamer, forever a gamer. I'll accept any new consoles and costs that are associated with it if it means I can enjoy a few hours of feeling like a complete bad ass a few times a week.


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## Guitarman700 (Jan 26, 2012)

jeremyb said:


> Yeah but you don't have to upgrade your console every time the latest game comes out....



That's hyperbole. A good pc will last several console generations.
Mine plays the latest games on the highest settings without breaking a sweat, plays multiplayer without a fee, records my music, plays and burns blu ray discs and hooks directly to a home entertainment system. The notion that you have to dole out tons of cash for a good of computer is a myth.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> The notion that you have to dole out tons of cash for a good of computer is a myth.


 
If you know what you're doing. A lot of folks don't and have no desire to. Consoles are easier than having to actually know something. That's not a jab at anyone, it's just how I feel. 

With the PC game if the game won't play or won't play correctly there's troubleshooting involved.

With an Xbox if the shit doesn't play right you take it to someone else and make it their problem.


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## Mordacain (Jan 26, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> The notion that you have to dole out tons of cash for a good of computer is a myth.



True to an extent, but even if you are awesome at building a performance PC, you'll still spend more money than you would if you were strictly a console gamer. (5 year console lifecycle vs every couple of years for a modest gaming PC).

My computer is a couple generations old CPU-wise and 1 generation back GPU and its definitely feeling it when it comes to playing current generation games at 1080P with a 60 FPS frame-rate. When saying a computer offers better performance for gaming over a console, that's really a loaded statement and it depends entirely on when you last updated that computer and what games you are playing; its certainly not a universal truth.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

^ True. But as we've all probably had these debates before... You can probably build a more powerful machine for the money. I think that's what most of them are getting at and as a former avid PC gamer you probably already know that.

Reallistically I feel like console vs PC is about as moot as Schecter vs Ibanez. Both exist... Both work... It's all about what matters to you. Either way you more or less have access to the same games (except with consoles you're sometimes limited by a title being exclusive to a particular platform).


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> That's hyperbole. A good pc will last several console generations.
> Mine plays the latest games on the highest settings without breaking a sweat, plays multiplayer without a fee, records my music, plays and burns blu ray discs and hooks directly to a home entertainment system. The notion that you have to dole out tons of cash for a good of computer is a myth.



I'm primarily a PC gamer, and I have to point out that this is simply not true. It might have been once, but not anymore. In about September 2004, I built a gaming PC with what were literally the best components available at the time. I spent about $3000 on this thing. The Xbox 360 came out about a year later, and it was a more capable gaming machine than my computer for $600. PC's are great for their versatility which obviously goes far beyond that of consoles, but in shear terms of pushing frames per second, consoles will do it much cheaper in the long run.

One thing I will grant is that, relative to the specs that today's software needs to perform, things have gotten a lot cheaper in the past few years. I just redid my entire gaming setup a month ago. The new computer I built cost about $1300 and performs better in Battlefield 3 than my $3000 gaming computer performed in Half-Life 2 back in 2004.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

So is it possible that a PC needs the extra power for the amount of versatility they provide? Bc if that's the case we seem to be comparing apples to oranges. A console is a dedicated gaming PC more or less whereas a PC handles SO many other things... Or could be asked to do so... Then again, the Xbox does a lot of stuff beyond gaming as well like video streaming and what not, but I'm still not sure whether that's more demanding than what you could potentially ask of a PC. At same time I know lag can be HORRENDOUS on the Xbox... I don't have enough experience with PCs to have a basis for comparison.


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

Indeed. I on the other hand don't even bother with streaming content such as Netflix. One of the downsides of living in the far north is having a 70GB per month bandwidth cap and a surcharge of $7.50 per gig that I go over it. Netflix tends to eat bandwidth pretty fast, so yeah. In the words of Layne Staley... I stay away.


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## Zonk Knuckle (Jan 26, 2012)

When this is released, if companies continue to release games without anti-aliasing, I will be quite annoyed.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Anti-aliasing?


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## Xaios (Jan 26, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Anti-aliasing?



Anti-aliasing reduces the jagged edges found at the visible edges of polygons.

EDIT: Let's try again.


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## Bobo (Jan 26, 2012)

Video car question from a nub. I saw a vid that I think was implying that this 720 graphics card could possibly perform better on the Xbox than on a PC. I may have totally understood it wrong, but figured I'd ask this random question. 

I guess a lot of it depends on the programmer and their software (again, simple nub understanding) seeing as how Gears of War 3 looks way better than Modern Warfare 3 on the 360.



Zonk Knuckle said:


> When this is released, if companies continue to release games without anti-aliasing, I will be quite annoyed.



True dat. Side question. Is your avatar a painting by The Lefthanded Monkey?


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## Tomo009 (Jan 26, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> The more powerful and complicated the console, the more effort it will take to develope games for it. The more effort it takes to develope games, the more they will cost to be made. The more money they cost to be made, the less risk investors and publishers are going to be willing to take. Be prepared for even _more_ samey games that are the gaming equivalent of "summer blockbusters," like we've already been seeing hints of with the current console generation. More sequels, more remakes, more safe bets, less creativity, fewer exciting new IPs.
> 
> Sometimes I wish we'd just put a freeze on hardware developement, and instead of cranking out a new one just as developers are finally starting to really sink their teeth into the current generation consoles' abilities, we'd actually give them a few years to crank out some high quality games for a few years while they're all at the top of their game. That's not going to happen, though, and there are going to be some great current-gen developed games that are going to be rushed ports over to the new consoles that are buggy as shit and not as good as they'd have been on older tech.
> 
> ...


Pretty much this.

A new generation of consoles that are only improved in hardware will do absolutely nothing for games.

Games are already the most expensive media and with a few exceptions tend to not be as profitable as the likes of movies etc. Get ready for even more sequels than end up being almost exactly the same as the game before, down to the art assets.


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## Qweklain (Jan 27, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Sometimes I wish we'd just put a freeze on hardware developement, and instead of cranking out a new one just as developers are finally starting to really sink their teeth into the current generation consoles' abilities, we'd actually give them a few years to crank out some high quality games for a few years while they're all at the top of their game. That's not going to happen, though, and there are going to be some great current-gen developed games that are going to be rushed ports over to the new consoles that are buggy as shit and not as good as they'd have been on older tech.
> 
> Grumble grumble grumble.


I am in 100% agreeance with what you say. I do not have nearly as much enjoyment playing as I do PS1 and 2 games. PS2 was the end of an era in games where quality games were still taken pride in and were not piles of glitches and bugs.

Nowadays it is just roll out a game, maybe it will be a cash-cow we can rehash over and over for years for infinite dollars *cough* Call of Duty and <insert sports game here> *cough* and move on to the next shitty generic game. Honestly, there is almost no more innovation or creativity in games anymore and it makes me sad. Even JRPGs have been pretty shitty lately and they are usually always pretty tasty for RPG fans.


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## Zonk Knuckle (Jan 27, 2012)

Bobo said:


> True dat. Side question. Is your avatar a painting by The Lefthanded Monkey?



I don't know what that is. I made my avatar, starting with a picture of Cody from SSF4. I used Gimp.


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## Spinedriver (Jan 27, 2012)

If this turns out to be true, it's going to put a serious hurt on the console.

Xbox 720 Won't Play Used Games; Wii U Better Than X360

Rumor has it that used games may be unplayable... Sooooo, Brand new console and the only games you can play are either $60 good games or discounted crap games (unless you want to wait a year for the price to drop).


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 27, 2012)

Spinedriver said:


> If this turns out to be true, it's going to put a serious hurt on the console.
> 
> Xbox 720 Won't Play Used Games; Wii U Better Than X360
> 
> Rumor has it that used games may be unplayable... Sooooo, Brand new console and the only games you can play are either $60 good games or discounted crap games (unless you want to wait a year for the price to drop).



That's fucking stupid. My brother lent me his copy of Battlefield 3 and I couldn't play it on multiplayer without paying 800 MSP. Fuck that. This sort of thing would literally kill gaming.

There's greed, then there's greed to the point where the guy at the bottom of the food chain doesn't pay your salary because he knows it's gone too far.

Sony will definitely be smarter in the next gen console war. While the PS3 was damn smart, it was also surprisingly miscalculated by such a great company as Sony. I expect next time round they will bring out something that will switch allegiance of many hardcore 360 fans.


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## HighGain510 (Jan 27, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Why didn't you, you know... just buy a Blu-Ray player?



Haha because I've seen countless Blu-Ray players stop receiving updates to their firmware and then decide to stop working because it can't read the latest discs. Figured I'd avoid all that by getting one I knew would get regular updates from Sony.


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## HighGain510 (Jan 27, 2012)

Scar Symmetry said:


> That's fucking stupid. My brother lent me his copy of Battlefield 3 and I couldn't play it on multiplayer without paying 800 MSP. Fuck that. This sort of thing would literally kill gaming.
> 
> There's greed, then there's greed to the point where the guy at the bottom of the food chain doesn't pay your salary because he knows it's gone too far.
> 
> Sony will definitely be smarter in the next gen console war. While the PS3 was damn smart, it was also surprisingly miscalculated by such a great company as Sony. I expect next time round they will bring out something that will switch allegiance of many hardcore 360 fans.



I don't buy my games used, but I can definitely see this affecting the portion of the market that ONLY buys used games. I've never seen the numbers to compare but if MS doesn't realize that this move would be shooting themselves in the foot, they are idiots.  The crap with EA and their "season pass" bullshit is ridiculous too, don't bother buying a used copy of any EA game that you want to play multiplayer on because they lock their shit down with serial keys and tie it to a SINGLE EA account.  

I didn't buy NHL 12 strictly because of that, my tenant let me borrow his copy of NHL 11 to see if I liked it and when I went to play online against my little brother it told me I had to pay for the season pass (their online ticket) and I eventually bought my own copy just so we could play online together but that is seriously greedy on their part.  Other than BF3, I've been doing my best to avoid buying ANY EA titles and I highly suggest others to do the same, this kind of garbage has no place in the video game industry IMO. I could see if they wanted to tie a license key to a gamertag, but at the very least make it so that if they sell the game you can remove the license and transfer it to the new user.


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## TomAwesome (Jan 27, 2012)

So Misrosoft is finally putting out something to compete with the PS3. Sweet!

I kid, I kid. They need a new scheme for naming their consoles, though. With names like 360 and 720, the implication is that Microsoft is running in circles to no apparent end.


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## HighGain510 (Jan 27, 2012)

TomAwesome said:


> So Misrosoft is finally putting out something to compete with the PS3. Sweet!
> 
> I kid, I kid. They need a new scheme for naming their consoles, though. With names like 360 and 720, the implication is that Microsoft is running in circles to no apparent end.



ZBOX 1080?!?!


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## kerska (Jan 27, 2012)

Scar Symmetry said:


> That's fucking stupid. My brother lent me his copy of Battlefield 3 and I couldn't play it on multiplayer without paying 800 MSP. Fuck that. This sort of thing would literally kill gaming..


 
Although I also find it frustrating when publishers want to charge extra fees to play online, you have to look at it from their perspective: Game Stop and the used game community are also hurting their sales. They charge to try to pad the money they are losing from people just buying used.



Scar Symmetry said:


> While the PS3 was damn smart, it was also surprisingly miscalculated by such a great company as Sony. I expect next time round they will bring out something that will switch allegiance of many hardcore 360 fans.


 
Well...I simply prefer the Xbox because of the controller lol. So you can label me as one of "those guys". The controller just feels too small. When I get pissed and want to throw a controller, I want to throw a controller that will do some damage, thus maximizing my anger output. 

But really, the PS3 is a rad console too. I've never been one for the whole "console war" bullshit. Let's be real guys...as far as graphics and what not they are the same. Both of them have their benefits and their flubs. I don't mind paying for Xbox Live as we get a lot of stuff before it comes out to PSN, and Live has never been hacked or gone down like PSN did that one time. The only thing I would change about the current Xbox setup is adding a browser like the PS3 has. But like I said before I'm sure Microsoft is going to look at what Sony has done and say, "Okay we can match that. But how do we do it better?"


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 27, 2012)

kerska said:


> Although I also find it frustrating when publishers want to charge extra fees to play online, you have to look at it from their perspective: Game Stop and the used game community are also hurting their sales. They charge to try to pad the money they are losing from people just buying used.


 
Yea but they charge $60 up front for the game. Then every 2 or 3 weeks they're releasing $5 DLC. Even if you DIDN'T have to pay for the online pass a lot of the time you STILL have to buy the maps bc everyone else has them.  

You have no idea how many time I've been in a Halo lobby with my XBL party wanting to play the same old maps and Xbox tells me I have to go buy "New Halo Map Pack #49283" because someone in my party has it whether we're playing maps from that pack or not.



> Well...I simply prefer the Xbox because of the controller lol.


 


I was a PS guy in the beginning. I hated the original Xbox controller. The 360 controller is more comfortable now and as I started playing FPS's more I grew to prefer the triggers on the 360 over those floating buttons on the PS3.


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## Valennic (Jan 27, 2012)

I just bought a 250 GB slim on Black Friday. Unless the 720 is made of fucking rainbows and runs on kitten farts, I will be waiting another 4 or so years to get it.


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## Mordacain (Jan 27, 2012)

kerska said:


> Although I also find it frustrating when publishers want to charge extra fees to play online, you have to look at it from their perspective: Game Stop and the used game community are also hurting their sales. They charge to try to pad the money they are losing from people just buying used.



This is very true. Personally, I would love to see the used game market crumble. It would ultimately cause the whole pricing scheme to shake up a bit. There would be fewer sales as a result initially, causing the retail price on new games to drop to a level that's sustainable by the market. Ultimately, the developers and publishers will earn more, thus be able to make better quality product, while delivering at a lower price point for the end consumer.

It would also be the another step in moving away from brick and mortar stores and going to pure digital distribution. After 20 odd years of buying physical media, I must profess I'm tired of making space on my shelves for titles I usually wind up downloading. Steam's delivery model really has me spoiled I guess...


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## Mordacain (Jan 27, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I was a PS guy in the beginning. I hated the original Xbox controller. The 360 controller is more comfortable now and as I started playing FPS's more I grew to prefer the triggers on the 360 over those floating buttons on the PS3.



Ditto. I really wanted to love Resistance, but I just couldn't get in tune with the controller. I've gotten to the point that I actually prefer playing most FPSs on the 360 versus PC (though admittedly this is due to not having a ergonomic gaming PC arrangement currently).


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 27, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> Ditto. I really wanted to love Resistance, but I just couldn't get in tune with the controller. I've gotten to the point that I actually prefer playing most FPSs on the 360 versus PC (though admittedly this is due to not having a ergonomic gaming PC arrangement currently).


 
Wired 360 controller ftw...


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## HighGain510 (Jan 27, 2012)

kerska said:


> Well...I simply prefer the Xbox because of the controller lol. So you can label me as one of "those guys". The controller just feels too small. When I get pissed and want to throw a controller, I want to throw a controller that will do some damage, thus maximizing my anger output.



I forget the brand but there is a company that sells a PS3 controller that is shaped just like the 360 controller.


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## kerska (Jan 27, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> Ditto. I really wanted to love Resistance, but I just couldn't get in tune with the controller. I've gotten to the point that I actually prefer playing most FPSs on the 360 versus PC (though admittedly this is due to not having a ergonomic gaming PC arrangement currently).


 
Yeah I've played shooters on the PS3, and it's not the same. Also I have to use those Turtle Beach surround sound headphones otherwise I feel like I can't hear anything in the game even with the surround sound cranked.


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## Mordacain (Jan 27, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> I forget the brand but there is a company that sells a PS3 controller that is shaped just like the 360 controller.



I've got it, its not responsive enough; sadly I find that true of virtually all 3rd party controllers. There have been only two 3rd party companies whose controllers I could ever get one with: Ascii (now defunct I believe) and Logitech.


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## Marv Attaxx (Jan 27, 2012)

I love the dual shock design


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 27, 2012)

Seems to me the Xbox 360 controller is the PS2 dual shock controller with the Xbox original triggers/aesthetics.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 27, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> This is very true. Personally, I would love to see the used game market crumble. It would ultimately cause the whole pricing scheme to shake up a bit. There would be fewer sales as a result initially, causing the retail price on new games to drop to a level that's sustainable by the market. Ultimately, the developers and publishers will earn more, thus be able to make better quality product, while delivering at a lower price point for the end consumer.
> 
> It would also be the another step in moving away from brick and mortar stores and going to pure digital distribution. After 20 odd years of buying physical media, I must profess I'm tired of making space on my shelves for titles I usually wind up downloading. Steam's delivery model really has me spoiled I guess...


 

I'm 100% fine with moving towards content distribution being at least _mostly_ digital, with one caveat: The prices should reflect the changes in production costs. If the company isn't paying to produce booklets, cases and discs for physical distribution, there's no fucking reason we should still be paying $60 for a new game. Sadly, I'm going to go on record as saying that's exactly what's going to happen. Prices won't change a bit. Hell, new games on Steam still cost the same as they do on disc, though they make up for it by being able to have crazy deals a few times a year that are pure digital evil because they're so awesome that I end up spending more buying five discount games than I would've on one new game and holy god I sure am rambling, aren't I?


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 27, 2012)

kerska said:


> Although I also find it frustrating when publishers want to charge extra fees to play online, you have to look at it from their perspective: Game Stop and the used game community are also hurting their sales. They charge to try to pad the money they are losing from people just buying used.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not money lost though, they've already sold the game! Games are expensive in a time where people can't afford a lot. If a game is truly worth the £40/$50 price tag, it will sell and won't be traded in. That should be an incentive to make better games.

I'm glad I chose 360, it just suits me better in every aspect. Blu-Ray would be cool but I already have a huge DVD collection and I'm not looking to spend £20 per disc every time I want to watch a film!


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## Xaios (Jan 27, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Seems to me the Xbox 360 controller is the PS2 dual shock controller with the Xbox original triggers/aesthetics.



Seems to me that the PS2 conroller is just an SNES controller with analog sticks, 2 extra side buttons and handles. 

Truly though, the 360 controller is leagues better than the original Xbox controller.


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## GazPots (Jan 27, 2012)

I remember those HUGE original controllers.  


No idea why they made them so huge in the first place.


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## Handbanana (Jan 27, 2012)

I have a 2x 560 ti's in Sli and its more powerful than the rumored specs of the next 360. Problem solved.


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## groph (Jan 27, 2012)

Mordacain said:


> In raw power perhaps. The reason you can see amazing results on consoles that can sometimes rival high-end PCs with actual games is having a static set of hardware to develop on. Reducing the number of variables in the components allows developers to push what they've got a lot farther in a far more efficient way.
> 
> I'm not saying that to lead to a PC vs console debate, those have been done to death (and I was an avid performance system builder for years); I merely mean that there have been several games from this generation that I've played multi-platform and have preferred playing on the console (Skyrim, Dragon Age 2 among the top). There have also been some games developed on console that I've not seen the equal of on a PC (God of War 3, Uncharted 3).
> 
> ...



New hardware is definitely needed. I guess the console market is great for keeping the ability to play games in the hands of the most people, but I've always liked the PC more. I never understood how a game like Battlefield 3, which actually requires I'd bet a computer that costs upwards of $1100, can run on a console with 7 or 8 year old hardware that you can buy for $200 now. Then I looked into it a bit, and yeah it's basically what you said. Also, consoles only play games, they aren't used for much else.

Don't consoles have FPS caps and no anti-aliasing? I know most PC games that are available on platforms always look much better on the PC, GTA4 sure does.

I just don't want to see the PC gaming market go completely under, the mouse+keyboard just make more sense to me than a couple of thumbsticks, especially in shooter games.

And are they REALLY calling it the Xbox 720?

This is a really ADD post.


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## Xaios (Jan 27, 2012)

Handbanana said:


> I have a 2x 560 ti's in Sli and its more powerful than the rumored specs of the next 360. Problem solved.



Oh yes, on a spec sheet a computer will almost always look better. However, because console hardware is homogenous, software can be made to run extremely lean and take full advantage of the hardware, unlike PC software which must account for many variables that simply don't exist on consoles. When the Xbox 360 came out, my computer was quite superior on paper, but the Xbox 360 schooled it in the real world.


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## Xaios (Jan 27, 2012)

groph said:


> Don't consoles have FPS caps and no anti-aliasing? I know most PC games that are available on platforms always look much better on the PC, GTA4 sure does.
> 
> I just don't want to see the PC gaming market go completely under, the mouse+keyboard just make more sense to me than a couple of thumbsticks, especially in shooter games.
> 
> ...



It's not entirely true that consoles don't have AA. On newer games they sometimes have to sacrifice the ability to run it so that they can maintain a high frame rate. I also don't know if consoles cap on FPS, but they likely run Vertical Sync, which will lock the FPS to be either a factor or a multiplier of the television's refresh rate. This eliminates tearing when there's a lot of movement on the screen.

Game developers have been sounding the death bell for PC as a gaming platform ever since it became such. It hasn't happened yet, and it likely never will.

They're probably simply refering to it as the Xbox 720 simply to follow the precedence of the Xbox 360. Before they revealed the name of the Xbox 360, they didn't really know what to call it because the series only had one model in it until then. They called it the Xbox 2, Xbox Next, Nextbox, etcetera. The name "Xbox 360" blindsided pretty much everyone.


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## Joose (Jan 27, 2012)

Man I cannot wait for the new Xbox and the next Forza!


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## TomAwesome (Jan 27, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Seems to me that the PS2 conroller is just an SNES controller with analog sticks, 2 extra side buttons and handles.



Well, Sony's controllers still pretty much look like the original PSX controllers, and when you take into consideration that the PlayStation was originally designed to be a SNES peripheral, it makes sense that the controller layout came out bearing a striking resemblance to the SNES controller.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 27, 2012)

This makes me a bit sad, because whilst there are some games that are always fun to play, and I'm trawling the shit out of Skyrim at the moment, I think I've reached the point where I've bought my last console. I'm not even at the age of consent yet


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## Spinedriver (Jan 28, 2012)

I usually catch on near the end of the cycle.

I got a PS1 just a few years before the PS2 showed up. Snagged a PS2 in 2003, 2-3 years before the PS3. Now, I bought a PS3 just last year and a new one should be popping up in a year or 2. Looks like I have plenty of time to save up.


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## Bekanor (Jan 28, 2012)

I personally loved the giant original xbox controller.


I had 2 of them and I used them exclusively until they both eventually broke, rather I eventually broke both of them, rather some very cheap gaming moments broke both of them.

One took too many hurls. The second one I twisted after a really cheap Ninja Gaiden death and snapped the PCB and some of the chassis. I've had to find other ways to express game rage, wireless controllers are too expensive and there's no way they could take 1/3rd the amount of abuse those giant xbox controllers did.


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## Holy Katana (Jan 28, 2012)

Zonk Knuckle said:


> When this is released, if companies continue to release games without anti-aliasing, I will be quite annoyed.



This. I actually prefer PC gaming, if only for the lack of jaggies. My new laptop is oddly rather good for games (obviously not the newest ones, but still). And I got it for practically nothing (it was already fairly cheap by laptop standards, but it was also a display model, on sale, and I had a gift card as well). The AMD Fusion series is really quite a good architecture for budget laptops.

I'm planning on building a gaming PC later this year, though, because SKYRIM.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 28, 2012)

TomAwesome said:


> Well, Sony's controllers still pretty much look like the original PSX controllers, and when you take into consideration that the PlayStation was originally designed to be a SNES peripheral, it makes sense that the controller layout came out bearing a striking resemblance to the SNES controller.



SNES controller ftw


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## beneharris (Jan 28, 2012)

Spinedriver said:


> I usually catch on near the end of the cycle.
> 
> I got a PS1 just a few years before the PS2 showed up. Snagged a PS2 in 2003, 2-3 years before the PS3. Now, I bought a PS3 just last year and a new one should be popping up in a year or 2. Looks like I have plenty of time to save up.




that isn't such a bad way to do it. you really picked it up during its heyday. if you grab it at the beginning you have to slog through all the crap that comes out upon launch, to find the 1 or 2 games that are good for the first month or so.

pick it up after the developers have had time to learn how to program things, and you get games like dark souls, or riddick (although that was originally xbox and pc, but you get my point).


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## GazPots (Jan 29, 2012)

^^^

Not to mention you get later hardware revisions which solve some problems that arrise in the launch models lifetime.


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## Black_Sheep (Jan 29, 2012)

Microsoft fails yet again im afraid. 

I'll go with playstation. Like i always have. One of the biggest reasons is the controller, the PS one is way better imo.


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## Mwoit (Jan 29, 2012)

Bobo said:


> Video car question from a nub. I saw a vid that I think was implying that this 720 graphics card could possibly perform better on the Xbox than on a PC. I may have totally understood it wrong, but figured I'd ask this random question.
> 
> I guess a lot of it depends on the programmer and their software (again, simple nub understanding) seeing as how Gears of War 3 looks way better than Modern Warfare 3 on the 360.



Gears of War 3 is built specifically for the Xbox 360 as opposed to Modern Warfare 3 which is multi platform. So I guess they can use 360 hardware specifc tricks and compilers to really squeeze the most out of it and not worry how to reproduce the same graphics in a PS3 or PC setting.

As with most new technology, I'll wait for the first wave of Xbox 720's (or whatever) to come out to watch the usual tech fails (bugs, hardware failures, shitty launch titles) before snagging one for cheap. I like to think the Xbox will be the popular console on the Western market meaning that I could probably snag one for cheap.


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## McKay (Feb 1, 2012)

What are people talking '1080p' for with PC's? Don't you mean resolution?

Console games look 'great' because they're rendered at shit resolutions and stretched to fit TV screens.


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## McKay (Feb 1, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Oh yes, on a spec sheet a computer will almost always look better. However, because console hardware is homogenous, software can be made to run extremely lean and take full advantage of the hardware, unlike PC software which must account for many variables that simply don't exist on consoles. When the Xbox 360 came out, my computer was quite superior on paper, but the Xbox 360 schooled it in the real world.



BF3 is completely neutered for consoles, the homogenised hardware doesn't make up as much difference as people would like to believe.


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## Xaios (Feb 2, 2012)

McKay said:


> BF3 is completely neutered for consoles, the homogenised hardware doesn't make up as much difference as people would like to believe.



It's true that it doesn't make such a difference now, after PCs have had another 5 years to develop over consoles, but when they first came out, they had a huge advantage running the same software, considering the difference in price between them.

Let me put it this way. If, in November 2005, I went out and spent $650 (the approximate cost of an Xbox 360 when it was first released) on a PC, it's highly unlikely that this PC would be able to run Battlefield 3 *at all* at this point in time, even on the lowest possible settings.

Also, 1080P has become a fairly ubiquitous term even among PC gamers since most monitors sold these days (at least to the gaming community) do in fact have 1080P resolution.


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