# New 2 Channel Rectifier? - Badlander



## protest (Nov 14, 2020)

Not sure if this is an accidental leak, or what. If you Google Mesa Badlander you can see they filed for a trademark for it in 2006.

https://imgur.com/a/20td7Jv


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 14, 2020)

They filed for a trademark of the name in 2006, not a patent, and that trademark has subsequently gone dead from disuse.

https://uspto.report/TM/77060579


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## protest (Nov 14, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They filed for a trademark of the name in 2006, not a patent, and that trademark has subsequently gone dead from disuse.
> 
> https://uspto.report/TM/77060579



That's what I meant


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## Wizard of Ozz (Nov 14, 2020)

I believe there was a blurry old pic of this amp sometime ago as the rumored Hetfield Sig amp that never materialized. Now we get to see what it really was...


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## narad (Nov 14, 2020)




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## sakeido (Nov 15, 2020)

ooooh I am very curious. First new Recto in 10 years.... must be totally re-voiced because it says clean/crunch/crush?

official announcement tomorrow apparently

Interesting post from TGP


> comes loaded with el34, no tube rectifiers, serial loop only, simple 1 button foot switch, channels are identical and cloned, super wide eq range, tight like a mk4, built i cab clones with option i load your own IR. 100 watt goes down to 25 watts, sounds awesome.



the fuuuuuck. color me interested. smaller head shell like the TCs


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 15, 2020)

reza said it's el34 based. there's a thread about it on tgp


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## protest (Nov 15, 2020)

sakeido said:


> ooooh I am very curious. First new Recto in 10 years.... must be totally re-voiced because it says clean/crunch/crush?
> 
> official announcement tomorrow apparently
> 
> ...



Shit. Well, I'm going to be $2,000 poorer soon.


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## narad (Nov 15, 2020)

sakeido said:


> ooooh I am very curious. First new Recto in 10 years.... must be totally re-voiced because it says clean/crunch/crush?
> 
> official announcement tomorrow apparently
> 
> ...



No tube rectifiers definitely makes me think it's heading in the right direction! I was a bit turned off when it looked small to me and I guessed it'd be too small for 100W, but this is looking really interesting.

Still, wish they would reissue chrome chassis black-faceplate rectos. That was one of their best looking amps.


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## DeathByButterslax (Nov 15, 2020)

Not to sound too picky, but anyone else put off by the size of the Mesa logo? Haha, hopefully it’s a good amp I liked the TC100, got a lot of flack for being boring but it had a lot of usable gain and the cleans were great


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## narad (Nov 15, 2020)

DeathByButterslax said:


> Not to sound too picky, but anyone else put off by the size of the Mesa logo? Haha, hopefully it’s a good amp I liked the TC100, got a lot of flack for being boring but it had a lot of usable gain and the cleans were great



Probably the same size as the TC, but just with a lot of "pop" from that contrasting grill bit. I bet if you order the grill in all-black it gets a lot more subtle. But I thought that particular aesthetic was a bit of a weird choice. Then again, I'm hearing the name "badlander" and thinking this is supposed to be badass, geared towards heavier tight tones, and maybe it's not at all.


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## DeathByButterslax (Nov 15, 2020)

narad said:


> Probably the same size as the TC, but just with a lot of "pop" from that contrasting grill bit. I bet if you order the grill in all-black it gets a lot more subtle. But I thought that particular aesthetic was a bit of a weird choice. Then again, I'm hearing the name "badlander" and thinking this is supposed to be badass, geared towards heavier tight tones, and maybe it's not at all.



a tighter less fizzy dual rectifier? Sign me up, I might have to snag one and compare it to my Hermansson modded rectifier when I receive it (getting its mods this week, so hopefully have it back before Xmas)


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## BadSeed (Nov 16, 2020)

This sounds like the Rectifier I've always wanted


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)




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## Drunkbag (Nov 16, 2020)

Well, there it is:


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## budda (Nov 16, 2020)

Way better knob choice


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## Werecow (Nov 16, 2020)

Drunkbag said:


> Well, there it is:




I just thought "wtf, the dude in the Mesa video's hair is suddenly long" then realised it was an Ola video . They look quite alike.

I've never been a Mesa person, but from that video this is the closest i've been to wanting one.


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## DeathByButterslax (Nov 16, 2020)

it sounds to me like the Rev C videos, which IMO are the best sounding rectifier clips. Not a fan of the Ola clip with actives, sounds muddy. But the passives sounded great


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## 0rimus (Nov 16, 2020)

I know this literally just announced, but if anybody gets wind of the head dimensions post em here please.

If its not too wide to fit on top of my Mojo Imperial slant 212 (24")...

Might have to try and find some way to get one.

Also props for getting a few of the stock IR's to not sound like complete garbage. Could actually see myself recording with some of em.


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## sakeido (Nov 16, 2020)

LOL the "Crunch" mode ... standards for Crunch have apparently changed, a lot

Sounds like they finally nailed the Boosted Recto sound without boosts. Like the rhythm tone... really did not like that lead tone



0rimus said:


> I know this literally just announced, but if anybody gets wind of the head dimensions post em here please.
> 
> If its not too wide to fit on top of my Mojo Imperial slant 212 (24")...
> 
> ...



9 5/8" H x 22 3/4" W x 10 3/8" D


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)

0rimus said:


> I know this literally just announced, but if anybody gets wind of the head dimensions post em here please.
> 
> If its not too wide to fit on top of my Mojo Imperial slant 212 (24")...
> 
> ...



Pretty sure it's the same dimensions as the TC, which is 22.75"


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## 0rimus (Nov 16, 2020)

Ooooooooooo buddy


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## Choop (Nov 16, 2020)

Sounds awesome in general, do want. Was hoping it would have the footswitchable solo feature like the other rectos -- that's the only thing I really miss going from a 3 channel to an older rev G. Not a huge deal though.


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## cardinal (Nov 16, 2020)

Damn I might be down for the rackmount


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## sakeido (Nov 16, 2020)

I was hoping for a bit more tbh.

Price is supposedly the same as the three channel Dual Rec Multi-Watt.

So either you get 3 channels and no cabclone, or 2 channels with the built in loadbox & cabclone. I dunno. Power not being assignable per channel kinda sucks, it'd be sweet to have one set to the triode mode for a vintage rhythm sound then toggle to a 50 or 100 watt mode for the more modern sound. Even my Stiletto has per-channel power and it's old af. That's a totally bizarre omission, imo, Mesa has that on almost all their amps now.

If I was just putting together a setup and I had no loadbox or boost pedals already, I'd go Badlander ever time... but I have a loadbox and pedals, so... ehh

Still gonna try one at the first opportunity. Maybe it's got some magic or a really nice feel the demos aren't getting across

edit: from the Mesa page for the Badlander 50

*



Yet the Middleweight contender in the Badlander Family has its own story to tell when it comes to defiant attitude and a rebellious nature

Click to expand...

*
middleweight contender eh? Badlander 25 confirmed?


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## teamSKDM (Nov 16, 2020)

I cant wait for the VS videos to show up. these need to go head to head with an original racktifier and a triple multiwatt ASAP !! Also I went on the Mesa website and there is a rackmount version as well , so a brand new racktifier in what 25 years or so? sign me up . hopefully less materials translates to cheaper price.


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## Drunkbag (Nov 16, 2020)

sakeido said:


> I was hoping for a bit more tbh.
> 
> Price is supposedly the same as the three channel Dual Rec Multi-Watt.
> 
> ...



Good point regarding the lack of options, especially at the same price of the older dual rectifier.
From the demos it sounds real tight and modern though, and the smaller size is is a big plus for me, so this is something I might consider over the PRS Archon 100 (which on paper has less features than the new Badlander, though sounds different)


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 16, 2020)

They finally created the barebones Rectifier I always wanted. Yay! Need to score brownie points with the wife until next year.


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## eaeolian (Nov 16, 2020)

I like it. I would miss the solo boost, but it gets some of the Mark "whack" in the midrange with the Recto "size", if that makes any sense. I'm assuming it also has the TC100 transformers to run the EL34s hot.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 16, 2020)

Yeah I don't need any of those multiwatt settings, I just end up putting it on the highest setting. This thing sounds awesome. I was pretty excited about the Tremoverb I just got but now I've got GAS for this thing, especially since it's the smaller size head. They also finally changed the knobs to something you can read in a dim setting! Damn you, Mesa.


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## technomancer (Nov 16, 2020)

protest said:


> Shit. Well, I'm going to be $2,000 poorer soon.



Yeah damn it I already have a JP2C and Multi-watt Dual here and now I want this and the TC


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## lurè (Nov 16, 2020)

i like it more than the older versions. I'm surprised they didn't implement any midi switching like in the TC.


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 16, 2020)

First the Revv comes out with new sruff, now this 

My poor wallet


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## Vince (Nov 16, 2020)

lurè said:


> i like it more than the older versions. I'm surprised they didn't implement any midi switching like in the TC.


It doesn't really need it though with only one footswitch. You can run a quarter inch cable from almost any multi effect and set channel changes perfectly in your effects device preset. I played a Mark V25 live before and it was exactly the same switching. That was actually why I chose the 25 over the 35.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Nov 16, 2020)

Sounds killer to me!! I wants...


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)

MatrixClaw said:


> Yeah I don't need any of those multiwatt settings, I just end up putting it on the highest setting. This thing sounds awesome. I was pretty excited about the Tremoverb I just got but now I've got GAS for this thing, especially since it's the smaller size head. They also finally changed the knobs to something you can read in a dim setting! Damn you, Mesa.



Yea. I always put my clean on say 50w and then the crunch on 50w and the high gain on 100w when I first get a Mesa. Then a month later it's all at 100w and never changes haha. I mean maybe if I'm playing super quiet but even then I usually use the variac and master volume instead of the lower wattage.


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 16, 2020)

Makes me wonder if you can send in your TC100 or JP2C to Mesa Boogie so it can get updated with the new Cabclone IR.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 16, 2020)

protest said:


> Yea. I always put my clean on say 50w and then the crunch on 50w and the high gain on 100w when I first get a Mesa. Then a month later it's all at 100w and never changes haha. I mean maybe if I'm playing super quiet but even then I usually use the variac and master volume instead of the lower wattage.


Yeah, I mean 10w is still stupidly loud. I could see in a live setting maybe using it, but unless you're using it as a 2-channel crunch/high gain, I don't see much point in going lower than the highest power setting. Generally you want more headroom for cleans so they stay, well... - clean, and high gain so it doesn't get loose. I'm sure there's people out there that use these amps for things other than heavy music though, so I could see them maybe using the power switches more, but I think they have a very limited use unless it can go down to 1w for bedroom playing.


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## Jon Pearson (Nov 16, 2020)

Dude, I haven't been really excited about aany new releases in years from any amp company other than the JP2C, and honestly even that didn't really move me in a big way. This actually seems badass, and just the thing to get in place of my Roadster.


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## Spinedriver (Nov 16, 2020)

Any idea what the street price might be ?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 16, 2020)

Really wanna hear how these compare to the early rev Rectos, especially the Rev c.


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)

I think each channel having its own IR is a pretty nice touch. I didn't notice that before.


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## sakeido (Nov 16, 2020)

Spinedriver said:


> Any idea what the street price might be ?



axe palace has the pre-order for $2299 for 100 watt, $1999 for 50


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## TheBolivianSniper (Nov 16, 2020)

Fuck that's the perfect sound. I just listened to Ola's demo and I cannot stand the Duncan Solar set. It's just so 

GOOOD

Like total boosted Recto with an even more modern flavor while still sounding huge. Cutting but also thick, heavy without being flubby, damn.


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## metaljohn (Nov 16, 2020)

Damn, I'm actually interested in a Recto again.


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## narad (Nov 16, 2020)

The tightness is there for sure but actually I found this to have a slightly "hollow" sound, for lack of a better word. It had a nice roar to it, but I didn't feel the heft / wall of sound I associate with rectos. That's why I like the rev C youtube vids -- it's super tight but still has a full sound behind it. Maybe if this was boosted would be there.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 16, 2020)

I'm gonna wait for more demos before I make a full judgement. I have noticed a lot of Ola's demos these days have that kinda hollow sound you're talking about.


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## cmpxchg (Nov 16, 2020)

I did a thing I never do and preordered one, Sweetwater said they thought the amps would arrive by the end of the month. Didn't think I'd ever be excited about a Recto...


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## teamSKDM (Nov 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm gonna wait for more demos before I make a full judgement. I have noticed a lot of Ola's demos these days have that kinda hollow sound you're talking about.


 im wondering if maybe its just the impulses he uses or maybe even made by himself.


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm gonna wait for more demos before I make a full judgement. I have noticed a lot of Ola's demos these days have that kinda hollow sound you're talking about.



I think it's the mics he has now, BUT I have no knowledge of mics so that's a complete guess. 

My buddy pre-order one from Sweetwater, so hopefully I'll be checking it out soon.


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## protest (Nov 16, 2020)




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## cwhitey2 (Nov 16, 2020)

protest said:


>



Tonally, that was the most uninspiring thing i have ever listened to


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## Shask (Nov 16, 2020)

narad said:


> The tightness is there for sure but actually I found this to have a slightly "hollow" sound, for lack of a better word. It had a nice roar to it, but I didn't feel the heft / wall of sound I associate with rectos. That's why I like the rev C youtube vids -- it's super tight but still has a full sound behind it. Maybe if this was boosted would be there.


I would like to hear it with 6L6s.


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## Deadpool_25 (Nov 16, 2020)

cwhitey2 said:


> Tonally, that was the most uninspiring thing i have ever listened to



Oh you must not have heard the Cream City demo. Ugh. I am waiting for some demos of this that actually sound good. So far, I’m feeling a whole lot of meh about this. I’m a Mesa fan in general and they often put out some pretty good demos. So far...no so much. 

Come on Mesa. Make me want it!


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## Thaeon (Nov 16, 2020)

protest said:


>




I live about 10 minutes from Lark Guitars. I love that shop. That dude is the store manager and is a really cool guy. He’s a Mesa for life person, and has access to nearly everything boutique because of where he works. He used to work at Guitar Sanctuary. That’s where I first met him. However, I’ve never seen him demo anything and play heavy before. Tones remind me of the first Scale the Summit record. Not what I would call awesome either. I may go play on it. The guys up there like me. Maybe if I bring the Oni they’ll let me play on it before it’s officially out.


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## SpaceDock (Nov 16, 2020)

Just not feeling it....


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## Muzz (Nov 17, 2020)

Call me old fashioned or whatever but the cab clone thing with whatever IR sounded like whenever I load the recto sim on my boss GT8. I'm keeping my Triple Rec, sorry neighbours


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## gnoll (Nov 17, 2020)

narad said:


> The tightness is there for sure but actually I found this to have a slightly "hollow" sound, for lack of a better word. It had a nice roar to it, but I didn't feel the heft / wall of sound I associate with rectos. That's why I like the rev C youtube vids -- it's super tight but still has a full sound behind it. Maybe if this was boosted would be there.



My philosophy has become that amps are either tight or big. If you tighten them up too much you will not get huge sounding power chords, but they will sound djenty instead, ugh, because the frequency spectrum that is getting distorted is not as big and meaty when you cut too much bass. On the other hand if you're more restrained with how much you tighten an amp and use your picking hand to squeeze more tightness from palm mutes you can retain a bigger sound.

I've pretty much done a 180 on tight amps. I prefer amps that are NOT so tight because 1) I'm tired of that sound and 2) if I DO want that sound I can just use a pedal/eq.


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## narad (Nov 17, 2020)

gnoll said:


> My philosophy has become that amps are either tight or big. If you tighten them up too much you will not get huge sounding power chords, but they will sound djenty instead, ugh, because the frequency spectrum that is getting distorted is not as big and meaty when you cut too much bass. On the other hand if you're more restrained with how much you tighten an amp and use your picking hand to squeeze more tightness from palm mutes you can retain a bigger sound.
> 
> I've pretty much done a 180 on tight amps. I prefer amps that are NOT so tight because 1) I'm tired of that sound and 2) if I DO want that sound I can just use a pedal/eq.



I agree on the point (2), I do the same.

I'm sure there's some trade-off there in general, but take the Rev C for instance. It's pretty tight, maybe not as tight as this, but it still hits with a heavy sound. Maybe just didn't stop very close on the trade-off spectrum to my tastes. Something about the way they cut freqs in the badlander seems to give it almost a hint of Marshall-ness at times, and that's the last thing I want from a recto. Great cleans and mid-gain though (but again, not what I look for from a recto). Anyway, hardly any demos and I always root for Mesa so fingers crossed.


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## protest (Nov 17, 2020)

gnoll said:


> My philosophy has become that amps are either tight or big. If you tighten them up too much you will not get huge sounding power chords, but they will sound djenty instead, ugh, because the frequency spectrum that is getting distorted is not as big and meaty when you cut too much bass. On the other hand if you're more restrained with how much you tighten an amp and use your picking hand to squeeze more tightness from palm mutes you can retain a bigger sound.
> 
> I've pretty much done a 180 on tight amps. I prefer amps that are NOT so tight because 1) I'm tired of that sound and 2) if I DO want that sound I can just use a pedal/eq.



I think of it like a 4 Quadrant chart. Tight, Bright, Fat, Smooth. Everyone has a sweet spot that they like. I don't listen to demos for amazing tones. I listen to them to see where an amp falls in that spectrum, and then I'll know if I want to try it for myself or not. 

I prefer smooth and a moderate tighteness. Tighter than recto but not as tight as an Engl or VHT because after awhile I get tired of that feel. Like you, if I want that I can boost an amp or mess with the EQ and get close to that sound.


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## teamSKDM (Nov 17, 2020)

For me the meat and potatoes is when an amp is head to head up against another amp. Stand alone demos do nothing for me and generally are inconsistent anyways from demo to demo


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## trem licking (Nov 17, 2020)

Finally a useable distortion, eh? No flabby mess? No boring ass boost taking up valuable pedalboard space and messing up the clean channel? Bout time. Amps should be made with, at least, selectable tightness coming into the amp, if not adjustable. Such an important feature these days for a high gain amp


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## Thaeon (Nov 17, 2020)

gnoll said:


> My philosophy has become that amps are either tight or big. If you tighten them up too much you will not get huge sounding power chords, but they will sound djenty instead, ugh, because the frequency spectrum that is getting distorted is not as big and meaty when you cut too much bass. On the other hand if you're more restrained with how much you tighten an amp and use your picking hand to squeeze more tightness from palm mutes you can retain a bigger sound.
> 
> I've pretty much done a 180 on tight amps. I prefer amps that are NOT so tight because 1) I'm tired of that sound and 2) if I DO want that sound I can just use a pedal/eq.



You ever play a Herbert or a VH4? Both of these fit into what I would call the Tight/Big sound. A lot because of where the treble rolls off and what frequencies the Presence control adjusts (high mids rather that highs).

This amp is a contender for a third amp for me. Live, I mostly like a 3 channel with MIDI.


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## gnoll (Nov 17, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> You ever play a Herbert or a VH4? Both of these fit into what I would call the Tight/Big sound. A lot because of where the treble rolls off and what frequencies the Presence control adjusts (high mids rather that highs).
> 
> This amp is a contender for a third amp for me. Live, I mostly like a 3 channel with MIDI.



Nope! From what I've heard in clips they don't sound super tight to me, maybe kinda middle of the road. But they seem to have their own thing going on tone wise...


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## Shask (Nov 17, 2020)

gnoll said:


> My philosophy has become that amps are either tight or big. If you tighten them up too much you will not get huge sounding power chords, but they will sound djenty instead, ugh, because the frequency spectrum that is getting distorted is not as big and meaty when you cut too much bass. On the other hand if you're more restrained with how much you tighten an amp and use your picking hand to squeeze more tightness from palm mutes you can retain a bigger sound.
> 
> I've pretty much done a 180 on tight amps. I prefer amps that are NOT so tight because 1) I'm tired of that sound and 2) if I DO want that sound I can just use a pedal/eq.


Yep! I found this several years ago also. I prefer a looser amp like a 5150 or Recto with an OD boost instead of an ultra-tight amp. You can dial in your level of tightness, and get better chugs in general.

Ultra tight amps tend to sound like more of a thwack. Like hitting a cardboard box with a stick, instead of a nice bassy chug.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Nov 17, 2020)

All these replies about not liking tight amps and I love my Recto but I love the VHT/Fryette sound. I think they're pretty great. Dry but solid, not all tightness.


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## sakeido (Nov 17, 2020)

Shask said:


> Yep! I found this several years ago also. I prefer a looser amp like a 5150 or Recto with an OD boost instead of an ultra-tight amp. You can dial in your level of tightness, and get better chugs in general.
> 
> Ultra tight amps tend to sound like more of a thwack. Like hitting a cardboard box with a stick, instead of a nice bassy chug.


Yeah imo making a loose amp that tightens with a boost makes a lot more sense than making an amp that can only play tight. I've never been able to push a tight amp to sound big and bloomy, they tend to just start farting out if you push too much bass into them.

But there's lots of people who don't want to use OD pedals for reasons, sooo makes sense they put out an amp for that market. I still don't quite understand why more amps don't go the Invective root with a switchable boost built into the amp.. make it MIDI controllable and you basically double the number of channels you have in the amp


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## Thaeon (Nov 17, 2020)

gnoll said:


> Nope! From what I've heard in clips they don't sound super tight to me, maybe kinda middle of the road. But they seem to have their own thing going on tone wise...



They're definitely what I would call tight amps. As in the low end is punchy and not flabby. There's a lot of low end, but its totally under control. The amps track really fast. Transients are sharp. The Herbert is the looser of the two but loose is not what I would call it based on the amps I've played/owned. The VH4 is often put in the same category as the Pittbull UL from what I've read. The Pittbull is one of a few amps I've not played but would like to try at some point.


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## Eyelessfiend (Nov 17, 2020)

This at first seemed perfect for what I need but it sounds too tight for my tastes. Until I play the Mesa, the 50 watt Stealth seems to be my next amp


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## BadSeed (Nov 17, 2020)

Just put my 50 Watt on Preorder with Sweetwater. I'll be sure to post a couple demo videos when she arrives!


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## gunch (Nov 17, 2020)

My initial reaction was "oh dope" but now it's like


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 17, 2020)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> All these replies about not liking tight amps and I love my Recto but I love the VHT/Fryette sound. I think they're pretty great. Dry but solid, not all tightness.


Same here. My live rig is a tuner>boost>cl100.

There's not really anything out there like an unboosted Pittbull. I can see why Aaron Turner used/uses them.

Also, cabs play a big role in whether amps sounds huge or not.


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## cGoEcYk (Nov 17, 2020)

I wasnt sold on the Ola demo and usually I like his, he knows how to dial things. Seems fun though may sound better/cut nicely in the chaos of a live mix. I like classic Recto though... boomy lows, chainsaw mids, razor highs. Big and evil sounding. The new one seems a little... snottier.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 17, 2020)

Ola also owns a Tremoverb (based on an early-gen Recto) so I'm hoping he does a comparison between that and the Badlander.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 17, 2020)

>people complain about rectos being loose for years and end up boosting them 
>mesa makes em tighter sounding
>people complain they're too tight now

go watch Hermannson's triple rec and other modded recto vids. That's what a truly tight recto sounds like lol


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## Mr. Chainsaw (Nov 17, 2020)

Went with the 100w head. Should've kept the MW DR, Mark V, and TC100 I had for comparisons but oh well, it'll go up against my Mark IV.


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## pyrrhus (Nov 17, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Ola also owns a Tremoverb (based on an early-gen Recto) so I'm hoping he does a comparison between that and the Badlander.


I'm pretty sure he has a Roadster with El34 to. Unless he got rid of it. I do hope he does comparisons.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 17, 2020)

pyrrhus said:


> I'm pretty sure he has a Roadster with El34 to. Unless he got rid of it. I do hope he does comparisons.


I think that's a friend's, but I still would love to hear it.


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## viifox (Nov 17, 2020)

Drunkbag said:


> Well, there it is:



Holy fack!


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## AK66 (Nov 17, 2020)

protest said:


> Not sure if this is an accidental leak, or what. If you Google Mesa Badlander you can see they filed for a trademark for it in 2006.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/20td7Jv



Excellent choice


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## narad (Nov 17, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> They're definitely what I would call tight amps. As in the low end is punchy and not flabby. There's a lot of low end, but its totally under control. The amps track really fast. Transients are sharp. The Herbert is the looser of the two but loose is not what I would call it based on the amps I've played/owned. The VH4 is often put in the same category as the Pittbull UL from what I've read. The Pittbull is one of a few amps I've not played but would like to try at some point.



From my pov, I don't know why the VH4 is ever compared to the Pittbull. I mean, maybe with boosts or things, but I always found the Pittbull to be inherently the tighter of the two. Maybe tighter is not the word...it might not be responding faster/cutting faster, but because it's a drier sound I think it would be perceived that way.


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## viifox (Nov 17, 2020)

One thing i hate about the amp are the knobs. They should have left the original recto knobs on there, cuz these things are fugly as hell!

Hopefully the thread is the same size so i can just swap them out.


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## Thaeon (Nov 18, 2020)

narad said:


> From my pov, I don't know why the VH4 is ever compared to the Pittbull. I mean, maybe with boosts or things, but I always found the Pittbull to be inherently the tighter of the two. Maybe tighter is not the word...it might not be responding faster/cutting faster, but because it's a drier sound I think it would be perceived that way.



They definitely don’t sound similar at all. Just on most of the lists I’ve seen people making about the tightest amps, the VH4 and Pittbull have been the top two mentions. You are correct though. They don’t sound remotely similar.


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 18, 2020)

Mr. Chainsaw said:


> Went with the 100w head. Should've kept the MW DR, Mark V, and TC100 I had for comparisons but oh well, it'll go up against my Mark IV.


Yeah, I want to hear it up against a Mark IV. I love the Mark tone, but this has some pretty cool options that would be neat, too. 

Let me ask you guys a question, though. I’m assuming that the power options of 100, 50, 20 watts are just using 4, 2, 1 of the EL34s. The volume decrease is going to be negligible, and the rest of the signal chain is going to be the same (same transformers), so what is the purpose of it? To try to get power amp distortion and compression? It’s not a feature specific to this amp, but I’ve never understood the rationale for it, and most people talk about it being for playing quieter, but we know that makes little sense.


----------



## narad (Nov 18, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I want to hear it up against a Mark IV. I love the Mark tone, but this has some pretty cool options that would be neat, too.
> 
> Let me ask you guys a question, though. I’m assuming that the power options of 100, 50, 20 watts are just using 4, 2, 1 of the EL34s. The volume decrease is going to be negligible, and the rest of the signal chain is going to be the same (same transformers), so what is the purpose of it? To try to get power amp distortion and compression? It’s not a feature specific to this amp, but I’ve never understood the rationale for it, and most people talk about it being for playing quieter, but we know that makes little sense.



Could the 20W just be a switching from like pentode to triode or something along those lines? I don't know why, but I just rarely see amps running on one tube -- are these amps push-pull designs?


----------



## diagrammatiks (Nov 18, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I want to hear it up against a Mark IV. I love the Mark tone, but this has some pretty cool options that would be neat, too.
> 
> Let me ask you guys a question, though. I’m assuming that the power options of 100, 50, 20 watts are just using 4, 2, 1 of the EL34s. The volume decrease is going to be negligible, and the rest of the signal chain is going to be the same (same transformers), so what is the purpose of it? To try to get power amp distortion and compression? It’s not a feature specific to this amp, but I’ve never understood the rationale for it, and most people talk about it being for playing quieter, but we know that makes little sense.



some combination of variable voltage and cutting the number of tubes or triode pentode.


so 4/2 pentode/triode. 

Keep in mind that there isn't a legal requirement or industry standard for how these claims have to play out.

The only thing is that the output wattage needs to be decked to about the maximum claimed. This could easily be done by just cutting the input volume at the pi. which some amps actually do.


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 18, 2020)

narad said:


> Could the 20W just be a switching from like pentode to triode or something along those lines? I don't know why, but I just rarely see amps running on one tube -- are these amps push-pull designs?


Yeah, you’re probably right. It’s probably running in Class A or something for the 20 watt setting.


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## laxu (Nov 18, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Let me ask you guys a question, though. I’m assuming that the power options of 100, 50, 20 watts are just using 4, 2, 1 of the EL34s. The volume decrease is going to be negligible, and the rest of the signal chain is going to be the same (same transformers), so what is the purpose of it? To try to get power amp distortion and compression? It’s not a feature specific to this amp, but I’ve never understood the rationale for it, and most people talk about it being for playing quieter, but we know that makes little sense.



That's not how modern power scaling works. I would assume 100 to 50W is just turning off a pair of EL34s but the 20W mode reduces voltages in the amp instead while still running 2xEL34. Variac switch probably does the same thing but in a different way.

The switches' effect on the volume will be 100 -> 50W = 3 dB volume drop, 50 -> 20 will probably be around 3-4 dB as well. That's not a whole lot. The bigger difference will be in how the amp feels to play. It will be a bit less tight and aggressive at 50W and even more so at 20W. It's a shame they did not go for per channel power scaling here like many of their other amps as that would let you get a bit "spongier" response for the lower power settings which might be enjoyable for cleans and bluesier tones. I doubt most buy the amp for those though!


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## MESA Boogie (Nov 18, 2020)

viifox said:


> One thing i hate about the amp are the knobs. They should have left the original recto knobs on there, cuz these things are fugly as hell!
> 
> Hopefully the thread is the same size so i can just swap them out.


You can order the amp with the option of the knurled knobs! All custom options are available on ALL of our amps and cabs. Thanks!


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## MESA Boogie (Nov 18, 2020)

narad said:


> Could the 20W just be a switching from like pentode to triode or something along those lines? I don't know why, but I just rarely see amps running on one tube -- are these amps push-pull designs?


Correct! 100w = 4 x EL34 pentode. 50w = 2 x EL34 pentode. 20w = 2 x EL34 triode.


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## viifox (Nov 18, 2020)

MESA Boogie said:


> You can order the amp with the option of the knurled knobs! All custom options are available on ALL of our amps and cabs. Thanks!


Oh, sweet! Thanks!!!


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## DiezelMonster (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm so stoked for this amp! It will go nicely with my Racktifier!


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## Vince (Nov 18, 2020)

viifox said:


> One thing i hate about the amp are the knobs. They should have left the original recto knobs on there, cuz these things are fugly as hell!
> 
> Hopefully the thread is the same size so i can just swap them out.


I've gotta disagree chief. These are the same knobs, I think, that are on the Iridium preamp pedal, and they're great. You can see them from across a room or stage. Try to see recto knob positions from across a room, especially with the silver knobs or with eyes older than 40


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## Thaeon (Nov 18, 2020)

Vince said:


> I've gotta disagree chief. These are the same knobs, I think, that are on the Iridium preamp pedal, and they're great. You can see them from across a room or stage. Try to see recto knob positions from across a room, especially with the silver knobs or with eyes older than 40



I like the look of vintage amps. This one actually looks pretty classy. I wish it had MIDI. Also, I'm over 40, and seeing the knobs is a big deal to me.


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## Deadpool_25 (Nov 18, 2020)

Haha. I do like the knobs.


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## viifox (Nov 18, 2020)

Vince said:


> I've gotta disagree chief. These are the same knobs, I think, that are on the Iridium preamp pedal, and they're great. You can see them from across a room or stage. Try to see recto knob positions from across a room, especially with the silver knobs or with eyes older than 40


I dunno. The original recto knobs just pair a lot better with the diamond faceplate, imo.


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## sakeido (Nov 18, 2020)

I like the original knobs because then people can't judge me for treble 10 mid 0 bass 10. I can't even judge me cuz I'm sitting five feet from the amp and cannot tell wtf settings I have dialed in.

I've shocked myself a couple times by turning it on at home without realizing it was still set to gig volume


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## Emperoff (Nov 18, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> >people complain about rectos being loose for years and end up boosting them
> >mesa makes em tighter sounding
> >people complain they're too tight now



ss.org gonna ss.org


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 18, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> I like the look of vintage amps. This one actually looks pretty classy. I wish it had MIDI. Also, I'm over 40, and seeing the knobs is a big deal to me.



It's a simple 2-channel amp so all you need is a MIDI relay switcher like the one Suhr offers. 

Also  yeah @KnightBrolaire is spot on. People are shocked that an amp thats supposed to sound like a boosted recto... sounds like a boosted Recto.


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## StevenC (Nov 18, 2020)

Worse than no MIDI is that the gosh darn footswitch jack is on the front like some cheap lunchbox.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 18, 2020)

StevenC said:


> Worse than no MIDI is that the gosh darn footswitch jack is on the front like some cheap lunchbox.



This ain't wrong. Hate it when Mesa does this.


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## Thaeon (Nov 18, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's a simple 2-channel amp so all you need is a MIDI relay switcher like the one Suhr offers.
> 
> Also  yeah @KnightBrolaire is spot on. People are shocked that an amp thats supposed to sound like a boosted recto... sounds like a boosted Recto.



I have one. I just hate programming relays. <waaah>


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## narad (Nov 18, 2020)

StevenC said:


> Worse than no MIDI is that the gosh darn footswitch jack is on the front like some cheap lunchbox.



That's just the usual 2-channel recto thing:


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## StevenC (Nov 18, 2020)

narad said:


> That's just the usual 2-channel recto thing:


MW>3ch>2ch


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## Vince (Nov 18, 2020)

StevenC said:


> MW>3ch>2ch


I can't get onboard that at all. The Rev C-F Rectos from the 90s are on a pedestal to most recto guys. The MW Rectos just nail everything right and IMO are the best ones made up to now. The 3 channel ones from the 2000s are great amps, but unless you buy a triple rec, the clean sound is lifeless and boxy.


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## Vince (Nov 18, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> I have one. I just hate programming relays. <waaah>



Most mult-effect pedals do it now. HX Stomp, HX Effects, Boss MS3, Fractal FM3, they can all do this.


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## gunch (Nov 18, 2020)

Someone tell me about how/why the single and tripple rectos came to be if the duals were always kind of just there?


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 18, 2020)

gunch said:


> Someone tell me about how/why the single and tripple rectos came to be if the duals were always kind of just there?


Dual Rectifier is named because it has the option of tube or diode rectification. They are 100 watt heads. The single rectifier is diode rectified and 50 watts. The triple is a bit of a misnomer because it’s only got 2 options for rectification like the dual; but it is 150 watts and calling it triple helps to easily differentiate from the line.


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## sakeido (Nov 18, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> Dual Rectifier is named because it has the option of tube or diode rectification. They are 100 watt heads. The single rectifier is diode rectified and 50 watts. The triple is a bit of a misnomer because it’s only got 2 options for rectification like the dual; but it is 150 watts and calling it triple helps to easily differentiate from the line.



I think Dual and Triple refer to the rectifier tubes... the big ones in the back next to the power tubes. Dual has 2, Triple has 3. 5U4GBs or something like that. The single Recto must be called that because it only has a single rectifier option. Sneaky.


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 18, 2020)

laxu said:


> It will be a bit less tight and aggressive at 50W



Right, but my question is why would I want to do that? It’s not for volume, as you said. If I’m turning off two power tubes, but everything else is the same, the amp should sound the same, right? I mean, until I push it far enough into power amp distortion territory. My understanding of a 50W vs 100W amp is that the 50 watter has a smaller transformer and other component differences that will make it sound different from the 100 watt version. But in a head that can do either, I’m just not sure what to expect. I would think I’d have to get the volume up pretty high to hear a difference in the power amp. But maybe I’m underestimating that.


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## protest (Nov 18, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> Dual Rectifier is named because it has the option of tube or diode rectification. They are 100 watt heads. The single rectifier is diode rectified and 50 watts. The triple is a bit of a misnomer because it’s only got 2 options for rectification like the dual; but it is 150 watts and calling it triple helps to easily differentiate from the line.



This is the correct answer. It was just a way of distinguishing between wattage, but the Single had only one form of rectification (diode no tube) and the Dual has both forms. The Dual was the first version, and was named because you could choose between the two types of rectification.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 18, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Right, but my question is why would I want to do that? It’s not for volume, as you said. If I’m turning off two power tubes, but everything else is the same, the amp should sound the same, right? I mean, until I push it far enough into power amp distortion territory. My understanding of a 50W vs 100W amp is that the 50 watter has a smaller transformer and other component differences that will make it sound different from the 100 watt version. But in a head that can do either, I’m just not sure what to expect. I would think I’d have to get the volume up pretty high to hear a difference in the power amp. But maybe I’m underestimating that.



There's no set point that you get more power section coloration, it's ever present, even at lower volume.

Obviously if it's set whisper quiet it won't be as apparent, but at real volume there will always be a difference.


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## Shask (Nov 18, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Right, but my question is why would I want to do that? It’s not for volume, as you said. If I’m turning off two power tubes, but everything else is the same, the amp should sound the same, right? I mean, until I push it far enough into power amp distortion territory. My understanding of a 50W vs 100W amp is that the 50 watter has a smaller transformer and other component differences that will make it sound different from the 100 watt version. But in a head that can do either, I’m just not sure what to expect. I would think I’d have to get the volume up pretty high to hear a difference in the power amp. But maybe I’m underestimating that.


My JCA100HDM has a 50w / 100w switch. When you flip it to 50w it is like all the depth disappears. Like turning off the loudness button on a stereo. It is pretty noticeable even at low volumes. Flip it back to 100w, and it kicks back in with depth and fullness.


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## narad (Nov 18, 2020)

So now I understand the single vs. dual vs. triple, but I'm still lost about badlander. Is it a bad lander, or a badland-er?


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## Thaeon (Nov 19, 2020)

Vince said:


> Most mult-effect pedals do it now. HX Stomp, HX Effects, Boss MS3, Fractal FM3, they can all do this.



I don’t use an MFX processor. I don’t like them. That said, I have a Rivera Headmaster. It has a couple relay ports. Again, I just don’t like programming them. If I got this amp, it wouldn’t be for live anyway. I’m primarily a Diezel guy.


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## Boris_VTR (Nov 19, 2020)

Shask said:


> My JCA100HDM has a 50w / 100w switch. When you flip it to 50w it is like all the depth disappears. Like turning off the loudness button on a stereo. It is pretty noticeable even at low volumes. Flip it back to 100w, and it kicks back in with depth and fullness.


On my ENGL Savage SE when I flip triode/pentode mode there is nice volume difference (not huge!). Just enough that it works perfect in combination with master volume to have great whisper quiet tone. And for live volume it does make tonal difference so this could be also looked as some additional tone option. Why not.


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## narad (Nov 19, 2020)

More vids out. 





Actually, damn, just watched the Fluff vid and it sounded awful. Exactly how I wanted to see it -- 6L6s and boosted, but...dammn.


----------



## 4Eyes (Nov 19, 2020)

I haven't seen demos yet, but I already have kind of mixed feelings about it. What's the point? Should it be more modern, tighter version of good ol' Recto...with EL34s? with funny name? that looks like Recto for grandpas - vintage knobs, diamond plate on marshall like head shell? meh... just do it the right way - 2ch Recto, with channel cloning and modern features like built in reactive load and IR loader, serial FX loop and midi.


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## protest (Nov 19, 2020)

narad said:


> So now I understand the single vs. dual vs. triple, but I'm still lost about badlander. Is it a bad lander, or a badland-er?



Ba-dlander


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 19, 2020)

The new Lark guitars video is better, but it still didn't really produce any tones that I would use. Maybe it's the cab they are using


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## Thaeon (Nov 19, 2020)

That last Lark video DOES sound better. Honestly that one is the best one done yet. My only complaint would be that there isn’t enough treble dialed in. Even sans the treble the bottom held together and stayed pretty tight. I definitely need to check this amp out.


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## narad (Nov 19, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> That last Lark video DOES sound better. Honestly that one is the best one done yet. My only complaint would be that there isn’t enough treble dialed in. Even sans the treble the bottom held together and stayed pretty tight. I definitely need to check this amp out.



Yea, I like the tones he pulls out around 8:00+. That's the closest yet for doing it for me, and maybe that + a boost would be great. And there's still some hope for 6L6s making a difference.

Man, I really wish they had set it up for KT88s as well. I just feel like a KT88 recto would be crushing.


----------



## StevenC (Nov 19, 2020)

Vince said:


> I can't get onboard that at all. The Rev C-F Rectos from the 90s are on a pedestal to most recto guys. The MW Rectos just nail everything right and IMO are the best ones made up to now. The 3 channel ones from the 2000s are great amps, but unless you buy a triple rec, the clean sound is lifeless and boxy.


Footswitch jack on the front disqualifies it completely from contention


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Nov 19, 2020)

Wow, the Ryan Bruce demo sounds terrrrible. But most of his videos sound awful so that's not surprising.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 19, 2020)

DeathByButterslax said:


> Wow, the Ryan Bruce demo sounds terrrrible. But most of his videos sound awful so that's not surprising.


Yeah he hasn't made a decent sounding demo in years imo


----------



## efiltsohg (Nov 19, 2020)

"looser amp like a 5150" now that's gotta be a phrase you can only find on this website


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## efiltsohg (Nov 19, 2020)

Ola's demo sounds good in the mix at the start, but I don't like the rest of it. Might be the mics he uses now.

edit: has a single person posting about "rev C" rectos in this thread actually played one, or just watched a youtube video? lol


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## narad (Nov 19, 2020)

efiltsohg said:


> Ola's demo sounds good in the mix at the start, but I don't like the rest of it. Might be the mics he uses now.
> 
> edit: has a single person posting about "rev C" rectos in this thread actually played one, or just watched a youtube video? lol



Of course we just watch youtube. We're literally basing our entire opinion of the badlander on a whole other set of youtube video. If anything that we're on more equal footing for basing impressions of the rev C on it as well.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Nov 19, 2020)

I wonder if Wizard has his order in yet.


----------



## Drunkbag (Nov 20, 2020)

Another Ola video:

Sounds pretty good in this one tbh


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## narad (Nov 20, 2020)

Drunkbag said:


> Another Ola video:
> 
> Sounds pretty good in this one tbh




Yea, much better here. I liked it boosted too (as with everything).


----------



## Genome (Nov 20, 2020)

Prefer the 6L6's there.


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 20, 2020)

Drunkbag said:


> Another Ola video:
> 
> Sounds pretty good in this one tbh



I have come to the conclusion I just don't like Ola's impulse's. Too boomy for me. 

I want to see some videos with Eminence speaker, I don't really care for most Celestion speakers.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 20, 2020)

Ola be like : yo dawg I heard y'all like boosted rectos so I added another boost on top of the already "boosted" sound.


----------



## lurè (Nov 20, 2020)

Nice video, it gives a good idea of the different tubes and i liked 6L6's the most.

The boosted sound is really cool but I think the settings are a bit too extreme on the gain.


----------



## SkullCrusher (Nov 20, 2020)

As a British fella, the EL34's for me.


----------



## Spicypickles (Nov 20, 2020)

I liked the boosted 6l6, not on the crush mode, though. Too much


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## Thaeon (Nov 20, 2020)

cwhitey2 said:


> I have come to the conclusion I just don't like Ola's impulse's. Too boomy for me.
> 
> I want to see some videos with Eminence speaker, I don't really care for most Celestion speakers.



I couldn't agree with this more. I do not agree with Celestions.


----------



## Shask (Nov 20, 2020)

Genome said:


> Prefer the 6L6's there.


Yeah, I prefer the 6L6s also. Sounds more "Recto" to me. The EL34 adds a funkiness in the mids.


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## BigViolin (Nov 20, 2020)

Simul Class rules. 

Cool amp, but I haven't heard anything yet that would steer me away from their other current offerings.


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## viifox (Nov 20, 2020)

DeathByButterslax said:


> Wow, the Ryan Bruce demo sounds terrrrible.



Just got done watching it. Yeah, it doesn't sound good at all. It's like scooped fizz.

That's not a knock against Fluff or anything, but i do hope the video isn't a good representation of what the amp actually sounds like.

I thought the tones he got from his TC-50 video were light years better.


----------



## lord of chads (Nov 21, 2020)

On paper this is exactly what I want, but all the demos are only OK so far. I don't think it sounds bad though. After only owning a Carvin Legacy for years, the badlander sounds more tight a less muddy. But anything sounds tight and clear compared to a Legacy.

I still really want to try it though, the low gain stuff sounds pretty good, even though I play high gain 95% of the time.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 21, 2020)

Still waiting for the comparison demos, comparing it to earlier Rectos.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Nov 21, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Still waiting for the comparison demos, comparing it to earlier Rectos.


Agreed. It’s only been a few days, I’m sure somethings coming


----------



## Vince (Nov 21, 2020)

Spicypickles said:


> I liked the boosted 6l6, not on the crush mode, though. Too much


I agree. I think Crush mode sounds quite a bit like Shred mode on the JP2C, a tubescreamer-type of overdrive tuned to make the amp sound better. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that's how it appears to me.


----------



## rexbinary (Nov 21, 2020)

Is there any reason other than saving $300 to get the 50w instead of the 100w?


----------



## Emperoff (Nov 21, 2020)

Shask said:


> Yeah, I prefer the 6L6s also. Sounds more "Recto" to me.


This.



rexbinary said:


> Is there any reason other than saving $300 to get the 50w instead of the 100w?


Weight perhaps? Other than that I guess not.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 21, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> Is there any reason other than saving $300 to get the 50w instead of the 100w?



You like the sound of it better.


----------



## rexbinary (Nov 21, 2020)

So the 100w set to 50w will sound different than the 50w set to 50w? Why is this?


----------



## cmpxchg (Nov 21, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> So the 100w set to 50w will sound different than the 50w set to 50w? Why is this?


guessing, but different output transformer, maybe? probably won't make a big difference considering Rectos aren't focused on power amp distortion. that said 100W will definitely have more clean headroom.


----------



## Emperoff (Nov 22, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> guessing, but different output transformer, maybe? probably won't make a big difference considering Rectos aren't focused on power amp distortion. that said 100W will definitely have more clean headroom.


Actually, the "recto sound" comes from its poweramp. The preamp is basically a SLO circuit.


----------



## narad (Nov 22, 2020)

Still the Axe Palace comparison of the dual and triple multiwatt helped clarify some noticeable differences between the two.


----------



## Jon Pearson (Nov 22, 2020)

It kinda sounds to me like they took the more recent Recto circuit and started from there (just based on the clips so far), tweaking it to be a bit tighter, while maybe people were hoping they would go back to the old revision circuit and mess about from there. Not surprising, just something that I was thinking about. 

It almost sounds like they did some trimming after the distortion, which isn't necessarily bad, but was never my concern and not really what happened when people boosted the originals.

A Recto is an amp that, in my opinion, almost never demos well anyways, so I'll be curious to hear one in person. I think that's the only way we will get a real idea of how tight the front end is. As someone who has owned a ton of Rectifiers at this point, I have a real love/hate thing with them, but I'm hoping this one might be able to tilt that firmly into love.


----------



## Vince (Nov 22, 2020)

Jon Pearson said:


> A Recto is an amp that, in my opinion, almost never demos well anyways, so I'll be curious to hear one in person. I think that's the only way we will get a real idea of how tight the front end is. As someone who has owned a ton of Rectifiers at this point, I have a real love/hate thing with them, but I'm hoping this one might be able to tilt that firmly into love.



I agree, and I think it's because it's an amp that has simple controls, yet is difficult to get it just right. I played a triple rec in a band for years, owned all kinds of rectifiers over the years, and I currently own a MW Dual rec, and I have to say once you get your sound dialed in, it's an amazing sounding amplifier. It also blends really well with other amps for rhythm guitar. Blending a rectifier sound with a Mesa Mark amp, Peavey 5150 or EVH can just sound amazing. Listen to the tone of the guy in Dyscarnate as an example, simply awesome sound:


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 22, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> So the 100w set to 50w will sound different than the 50w set to 50w? Why is this?





Emperoff said:


> Actually, the "recto sound" comes from its poweramp. The preamp is basically a SLO circuit.



Pretty sure they don't use the SLO clone preamp anymore (doesn't seem they have since the '90s), but yeah, a lot of the Recto sauce is the power amps. There's some pretty decent differences between the Single, Dual, and Triple Recto. FWIW I actually liked the Single Recto I owned briefly over the Triple I had. It actually seemed to be brighter, slightly tighter, and had a more gnarly midrange.


----------



## Emperoff (Nov 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty sure they don't use the SLO clone preamp anymore (doesn't seem they have since the '90s), but yeah, a lot of the Recto sauce is the power amps. There's some pretty decent differences between the Single, Dual, and Triple Recto. FWIW I actually liked the Single Recto I owned briefly over the Triple I had. It actually seemed to be brighter, slightly tighter, and had a more gnarly midrange.



Yeah, of course. And this one will probably sound the most different of them all. Just pointing out the huge misconception of disregarding the poweramp on the Recto sound.


----------



## viifox (Nov 22, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Yeah, of course. And this one will probably sound the most different of them all. Just pointing out the huge misconception of disregarding the poweramp on the Recto sound.


Is the misconception pretty common? I mean, it seems like most recto owners know that the real magic doesn't manifest until you've got some serious volume engaged, then that recto roar kicks in and you get sledgehammered in the gut!


----------



## cmpxchg (Nov 22, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Yeah, of course. And this one will probably sound the most different of them all. Just pointing out the huge misconception of disregarding the poweramp on the Recto sound.


This got me wondering--how similar are the MW Dual/Triples to one another if they're both running at 50W? I haven't been able to find any comparisons of that.


----------



## Shoeless_jose (Nov 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty sure they don't use the SLO clone preamp anymore (doesn't seem they have since the '90s), but yeah, a lot of the Recto sauce is the power amps. There's some pretty decent differences between the Single, Dual, and Triple Recto. FWIW I actually liked the Single Recto I owned briefly over the Triple I had. It actually seemed to be brighter, slightly tighter, and had a more gnarly midrange.



Yeah I had a single Rec it kicked like a mule. Miss it so much haha


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## Shask (Nov 23, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Yeah, of course. And this one will probably sound the most different of them all. Just pointing out the huge misconception of disregarding the poweramp on the Recto sound.


A good example of this is just look at how popular the Recto amps are, and how unpopular the Recto Rack preamp is.

Just don't have the sound without the matching poweramp.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 23, 2020)

Shask said:


> A good example of this is just look at how popular the Recto amps are, and how unpopular the Recto Rack preamp is.
> 
> Just don't have the sound without the matching poweramp.



I'm not sure about that. 

The RRP is really just meant to sit in a studio rack (as the name implies), it doesn't really have the I/O or switching schemes that would make it useful for a live rig baked in. 

A lot of the really nifty Recto features come from the switching and modes between the pre and power section aren't available on the RRP. 

Not to mention it's always been more expensive, being a more limited piece, and full Rectos have pretty much always been really cheap. 

Why buy an RRP to mate up to a 2:100, when a Dual is half the price, two thirds the weight, and won't need hundreds of dollars in outboard gear? 

If you need a rack mount solution, Racktos come up often enough and cheap enough.


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## 4Eyes (Nov 23, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> So the 100w set to 50w will sound different than the 50w set to 50w? Why is this?


Different OT


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## Thaeon (Nov 23, 2020)

4Eyes said:


> Different OT



This can’t be understated. You OT had a HUGE effect on how an amp sounds/responds.


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## 4Eyes (Nov 23, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> This can’t be understated. You OT had a HUGE effect on how an amp sounds/responds.


Exactly, simple explanation is that OT is wound specifically for set amount of tubes in power amp section where it will be used. When you switch off two tubes out of four, they'll have different load on output transformer and that will result in different sound and feel, than 50W amp with OT wound specifically for two power tubes. It's safe "mismatch" - it's not ideal, but it'll work with no harm to the amp...and people want it to have


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## sakeido (Nov 23, 2020)

I don't buy into the output transformer juju quite as much as some others... but Mesa does say straight up in the instruction manual that the 50 watt mode will sound different once you match the volume. 20 watt even more so. 

I would assume the 50 watt running full power sounds a bit more like the 100 watt running full power, but quieter, and would be a little tighter tracking and more modern sounding than the 100 watt running in 50 watt mode


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## Jeff (Nov 23, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Actually, the "recto sound" comes from its poweramp. The preamp is basically a SLO circuit.



No, it isn’t. While that may have been true almost thirty years ago, they’re completely different now.


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## Emperoff (Nov 23, 2020)

Jeff said:


> No, it isn’t. While that may have been true almost thirty years ago, they’re completely different now.



Aham, so something that has been accurate for 30 years suddendly isn't?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 24, 2020)

Sounds fucking mean here.


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## Jeff (Nov 24, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Aham, so something that has been accurate for 30 years suddendly isn't?



You know the design has changed multiple times over the years, right?


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## Emperoff (Nov 24, 2020)

Jeff said:


> You know the design has changed multiple times over the years, right?



Yeah, same as Marshalls with their JVM line. yet still anyhting you plug into their poweramp sounds like a Marshall. Poweramp has always been a huge part of the recto sound. 

Anyway, looks like we agree to disagree.


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## narad (Nov 24, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds fucking mean here.




Best vid so far for my tastes.


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 24, 2020)

That Crunch channel is better than EVH Blue. Very nice.


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## narad (Nov 24, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> That Crunch channel is better than EVH Blue. Very nice.



Yea, honestly I'm hearing it more like a competitor for the 5150 than for a recto.


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## narad (Nov 25, 2020)

::sigh::



I blame Stevie T.


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## Thaeon (Nov 25, 2020)

There's definitely some Marshall DNA in the tone. Not in a bad way. It still sounds like a Recto too. Doug has really good ears BTW. I be he helped with setting the tones in that video.


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## narad (Nov 27, 2020)




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## Jon Pearson (Nov 27, 2020)

I can't tell what it is but Reza has a way of making everything grind super hard, and I dig it. Not sure if its hands, pickups, speakers or what but his demos all sound great to me. 

After listening to all the current demos, I honestly don't think this is for me. It sounds awesome, but I think I like the more "normal" Recto sound.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 27, 2020)

narad said:


>




Eeeeeeh, other amps he's had on the channel have sounded better IMO. Seems like he needs to dial back the presence knob.

The MI Megalith he had sounded much better IMO


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## Werecow (Nov 27, 2020)

narad said:


>




Are you sure that guy hasn't got a Metal Zone off camera to record that


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## Werecow (Nov 27, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Eeeeeeh, other amps he's had on the channel have sounded better IMO. Seems like he needs to dial back the presence knob.
> 
> The MI Megalith he had sounded much better IMO




That sounds tons better.
His Recto vid sounds incredibly harsh in the highs, and has this weird pattern of noise where the mids should be (that's the only way i can describe it). It doesn't really seem to have any normal mids to my ear.
Eh, maybe Rectos really aren't for me after all.


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## narad (Nov 27, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Eeeeeeh, other amps he's had on the channel have sounded better IMO. Seems like he needs to dial back the presence knob.
> 
> The MI Megalith he had sounded much better IMO




Eh, I liked this demo. Overall there was a lot of treble in the sound that maybe could be dialed back on the presence, but the core tone seemed promising in a way that I really didn't hear much at all in the previous demos. I could list many of his demos that I thought sounded better (mark IIC++, uberschall, friedman cs50), but this doesn't seem bad for a new amp he's not even played around with. Plus his speakers are a bit different, and this sounds like it might work better with a darker speaker/cab. From the sound of things, it's not going to have any trouble cutting through!

Really interesting to see any "rectifier" with the bass on 5 and sounding tight. I'd probably maybe even run that at 6-7 by the looks of things. But I think it's best just not to compare to a rectifier -- I pulled out my Rev F the other night and was in awe again. This doesn't come close to that signature rectifier stuff, but I do see it sounding a lot like some other amps -- I mean, really seems to cut into TC territory a lot more.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 27, 2020)

Werecow said:


> That sounds tons better.
> His Recto vid sounds incredibly harsh in the highs, and has this weird pattern of noise where the mids should be (that's the only way i can describe it). It doesn't really seem to have any normal mids to my ear.
> Eh, maybe Rectos really aren't for me after all.



The palm mutes sound REALLY weird. Like, they got a ton of attack and a bit of tightness, yet the low mids have weird "wub" sound going on. Like it doesn't know if it wants to be tight or muddy.


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## Jon Pearson (Nov 27, 2020)

narad said:


> Eh, I liked this demo. Overall there was a lot of treble in the sound that maybe could be dialed back on the presence, but the core tone seemed promising in a way that I really didn't hear much at all in the previous demos. I could list many of his demos that I thought sounded better (mark IIC++, uberschall, friedman cs50), but this doesn't seem bad for a new amp he's not even played around with. Plus his speakers are a bit different, and this sounds like it might work better with a darker speaker/cab. From the sound of things, it's not going to have any trouble cutting through!
> 
> Really interesting to see any "rectifier" with the bass on 5 and sounding tight. I'd probably maybe even run that at 6-7 by the looks of things. But I think it's best just not to compare to a rectifier -- I pulled out my Rev F the other night and was in awe again. This doesn't come close to that signature rectifier stuff, but I do see it sounding a lot like some other amps -- I mean, really seems to cut into TC territory a lot more.



Glad you mentioned the TC thing, I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if they borrowed some from that circuit?


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## Werecow (Nov 27, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The palm mutes sound REALLY weird. Like, they got a ton of attack and a bit of tightness, yet the low mids have weird "wub" sound going on.



Yeh. The whole tone sounds weird to my ears now. Like there's an artificial pattern of white noise played over the top of the tone. And now like you said, palm mutes that are both tight and flubby at the same time.


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## Thaeon (Nov 28, 2020)

After comparing to Reza’s VH4 video I’m definitely not sidetracked by this one. I guess I’m a Diezel guy for sure. That MI Audio sounds killer though.


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## Thaeon (Nov 28, 2020)

Looks like this Mesa produced demo is alright too. This dude gets some early Metallica tones from the amp. Like AJFA, and self titled era stuff. Which makes me reconsider. I need to play this thing.


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## Emperoff (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm really enjoying all the vids posted. To me it sounds great in all of them. It's SO refreshing to not hear cocked wah metal tones for a change.

I guess I'm a Mesa guy at heart.


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## Elric (Nov 28, 2020)

Vince said:


> Most mult-effect pedals do it now. HX Stomp, HX Effects, Boss MS3, Fractal FM3, they can all do this.


Neither the HX Stomp nor the FM3 have relays. In fact, shockingly few MFX seem to do it, considering how useful it is. IMHO.


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## Vince (Nov 28, 2020)

Elric said:


> Neither the HX Stomp nor the FM3 have relays. In fact, shockingly few MFX seem to do it, considering how useful it is. IMHO.


You know what, you're right, and I stand corrected. I've used the MS3 and HX Effects in the past for this, and they worked great for channel switching. I assumed the FS 4/5 on the Stomp could be an output like on the HX Effects, but I stand corrected. You'll need a MIDI box like the new MIDI Matrix or RJM Amp Gizmo to do this with those devices.


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## Elric (Nov 28, 2020)

Jon Pearson said:


> I can't tell what it is but Reza has a way of making everything grind super hard, and I dig it. Not sure if its hands, pickups, speakers or what but his demos all sound great to me.


His speakers are bright as f*ck, I think. Nothing he demos sounds to me like any other demo, so I would not rely on them as I’d have to assume he is the outlier in that case. He mostly uses like Alnicos, I think.


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## Jon Pearson (Nov 28, 2020)

Elric said:


> His speakers are bright as f*ck, I think. Nothing he demos sounds to me like any other demo, so I would not rely on them as I’d have to assume he is the outlier in that case.



Oh I mean I don't rely on any one demo anyways, or really demos in general. I like watching them, but they aren't really indicative of how amps sound in the room or how I'll sound going through them. His are cool though because of how aggressive they sound.


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## Emperoff (Nov 28, 2020)

Only Multi-FX units that still support relay switching are Boss models, I'm afraid.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 28, 2020)

Elric said:


> His speakers are bright as f*ck, I think. Nothing he demos sounds to me like any other demo, so I would not rely on them as I’d have to assume he is the outlier in that case. He mostly uses like Alnicos, I think.


Creambacks are definitely not bright lol
They're mellower than a v30 or greenback on the high end.


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## LCW (Nov 28, 2020)

H


Elric said:


> His speakers are bright as f*ck, I think. Nothing he demos sounds to me like any other demo, so I would not rely on them as I’d have to assume he is the outlier in that case. He mostly uses like Alnicos, I think.


He says it at the beginning of every vid... Celestion Alnico Cream


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## Elric (Nov 28, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Creambacks are definitely not bright lol
> They're mellower than a v30 or greenback on the high end.


They aren’t cream backs, they’re Alnico creams as per the post above, I s’pose. All his clips are super bright. Just listen to his other clips, so it is either the speakers, the miccing or some other factors (guitars, pups, whatever), or some combination thereof. Point being, they are atypical. 

I am not seeing many metal guys playing with Alnico speakers. They are primarily guys into vintage tones. So I guess I always figured that’s the cause but maybe its something else.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 28, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> Looks like this Mesa produced demo is alright too. This dude gets some early Metallica tones from the amp. Like AJFA, and self titled era stuff. Which makes me reconsider. I need to play this thing.




Yep that does sound better than the Reza video.  Reza seems to dial in his amps REALLY bright, and the last thing you want to do with a Recto is crank the presence and treble.


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## Musiscience (Nov 28, 2020)

To my ears this sounds like an amp that has some of the mid range and tightness of the Mark series crossed with some of the bottom end of a recto (albeit really tamed v.s. previous versions). The fizzyness I always disliked in rectos also seems to be mostly gone. The clean sounds really nice too from the demos. Every time I played through a recto I found the clean to be very unremarkable and without character.

I'll reserve my judgement for when I get to play it, but it sounds like the amp I always wished Mesa made.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 28, 2020)

Musiscience said:


> To my ears this sounds like an amp that has some of the mid range and tightness of the Mark series crossed with some of the bottom end of a recto (albeit really tamed v.s. previous versions). The fizzyness I always disliked in rectos also seems to be mostly gone. The clean sounds really nice too from the demos. Every time I played through a recto I found the clean to be very unremarkable and without character.
> 
> I'll reserve my judgement for when I get to play it, but it sounds like the amp I always wished Mesa made.


Did you listen to that last Mesa demo vid? There were some great tones in there but nothing really similar to a Mark series imo. The Metallica esque tones in particular around 8:00 and 14:00 were meh. Still too squishy of low end to be compared to a Mark imo. It definitely sounds like a big improvement over the low end of most rectos, but that's not hard to do. Shit my F100 gets significantly tighter than rectos while still giving that recto growl.


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## Musiscience (Nov 28, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Did you listen to that last Mesa demo vid? There were some great tones in there but nothing like a Mark series imo. The Metallica esque tones in particular around 8:00 were horrible. Way too squishy of low end to be compared to a Mark. Still sounds like a big improvement over the low end of most rectos, but that's not hard to do. Shit my F100 gets significantly tighter than rectos while still giving that recto growl.



I'm not saying it's a Mark, because it definitely is it's own thing. Marks are possibly my favorite amp series ever and I owned/giged a few in the past. On the other hand, I usually really dislike rectifiers and never cared to own one for that reason. To my ears at least, this has SOME of that tight characteristic Mark palm mute soud, but mixed with some recto flavor and sprinkled with an EL34esque something. Never played an F100, so can't comment on that.

Like I said, I know better than judging an amp over YouTube clips. Once I track one down at some point and put it through it's paces, I'll form an opinion of it. I like what I hear though.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 28, 2020)

Someone on Facebook is already trying to trade his for a Savage and I guess Reza already sold his


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## DeathByButterslax (Nov 28, 2020)

MatrixClaw said:


> Someone on Facebook is already trying to trade his for a Savage and I guess Reza already sold his


Reza selling an amp is meaningless in regards to how anyone should perceive an amp though.... 

Still would like to try one. His clips of it were definitely not great, thin yet tubby and harsh


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 28, 2020)

Reza like his amps middy and wide sounding. He dials them like how he dials his Bogners and Diezels. Even his Mesa Mark demos are not what I would call optimal settings for a Mark.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 28, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Reza like his amps middy and wide sounding. He dials them like how he dials his Bogners and Diezels. Even his Mesa Mark demos are not what I would call optimal settings for a Mark.


Yeah, I don't think I've listened to any of his videos and thought they sounded anywhere close to how I'd dial the amp.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 28, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Reza like his amps middy and wide sounding. He dials them like how he dials his Bogners and Diezels. Even his Mesa Mark demos are not what I would call optimal settings for a Mark.



Yyyyyeah he's the last dude I'd want to see demo a Mesa. His JP2C demo was pretty bad.


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## technomancer (Nov 28, 2020)

MatrixClaw said:


> Someone on Facebook is already trying to trade his for a Savage and I guess Reza already sold his



Reza literally buys, demos, and flips every new amp so hardly shocking


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 28, 2020)

I saw the listing of the guy that's selling his (not Reza), and he didn't like it. He said the cleans and crunch were better, but preferred the regular Multiwatt Recto boosted for the heavy sounds.


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 28, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yyyyyeah he's the last dude I'd want to see demo a Mesa. His JP2C demo was pretty bad.



Man. That was the worst JP2C demo. Almost convinced me to not buy one. Ola is getting his JP soon and Im pretty stoked to how he will dial it in for heavier non DT sounds. 

Reza is also fond of mismatching cabinets.


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## narad (Nov 29, 2020)

~10:10. I know my speakers are failing but that sounds crushing.


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## MFB (Nov 29, 2020)

It'd be nice if someone could play a riff we can recognize and say, "how does this compare to the original tone it was recorded with" instead of just random riffs for these demos

That said, this thing does sound fantastic, and if I had any justification to own a full amp it'd be on the very short list to be the #1


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 29, 2020)

MFB said:


> It'd be nice if someone could play a riff we can recognize and say, "how does this compare to the original tone it was recorded with" instead of just random riffs for these demos
> 
> That said, this thing does sound fantastic, and if I had any justification to own a full amp it'd be on the very short list to be the #1



The Jamie Humphries demo on the previous page did some Pantera and Metallica riffs. Albeit, tweaked to avoid any copyright issues.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 29, 2020)

narad said:


> ~10:10. I know my speakers are failing but that sounds crushing.




Nah, that sounded legit how a boosted recto should sound. 
Looking at the EQ, he actually dimed the treble and bass. Something that isn't recommended with a real Recto.


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## soul_lip_mike (Nov 29, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> Looks like this Mesa produced demo is alright too. This dude gets some early Metallica tones from the amp. Like AJFA, and self titled era stuff. Which makes me reconsider. I need to play this thing.




I'm Broken Pantera vibes from that first song.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 29, 2020)

narad said:


>




FWIW I just noticed Reza said this was pretty much just taken out the box when he recorded it. So he didn't seem to have time to get a feel for the amp, nor did he have time to pair it with the right speakers/cab.


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## laxu (Nov 30, 2020)

narad said:


> ~10:10. I know my speakers are failing but that sounds crushing.




A lot of the tones in this video sound really good to me. I think the amp still could have used some pseudo 3rd channel for leads. Making the modes footswitchable would have been a great addition as now you will have to make some compromises on what you want each channel to do.


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## narad (Nov 30, 2020)

laxu said:


> A lot of the tones in this video sound really good to me. I think the amp still could have used some pseudo 3rd channel for leads. Making the modes footswitchable would have been a great addition as now you will have to make some compromises on what you want each channel to do.



You can always accomplish the pseudo third channel stuff with a pedal. Probably makes sense to just leave it off the amp. Personally I'm getting tired of amps with a million things on there. I'm selling almost all my 3 channel amps, so I really appreciate how straight-up simple this one is.


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## Emperoff (Nov 30, 2020)

laxu said:


> A lot of the tones in this video sound really good to me. I think the amp still could have used some pseudo 3rd channel for leads. Making the modes footswitchable would have been a great addition as now you will have to make some compromises on what you want each channel to do.



To be honest why did they incluide 3 modes per channel without MIDI in 2020 is beyond me 

Even with volume differences, that can be easily solved with patch volumes on a multi-Fx.


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## protest (Nov 30, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> To be honest why did they incluide 3 modes per channel without MIDI in 2020 is beyond me
> 
> Even with volume differences, that can be easily solved with patch volumes on a multi-Fx.



Obviously I can't confirm for this amp, but the majority of shared modes on Mesa amps can't be used with the same settings. Well I mean they can, but the EQ settings for one mode aren't what you want for the other.


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## Emperoff (Nov 30, 2020)

protest said:


> Obviously I can't confirm for this amp, but the majority of shared modes on Mesa amps can't be used with the same settings. Well I mean they can, but the EQ settings for one mode aren't what you want for the other.



Which can (again) be easily solved per patch. My main amp has four channels with only two EQs, so I know it's better to compromise if needed than not being able to use half of the amp modes.


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## protest (Nov 30, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Which can (again) be easily solved per patch. My main amp has four channels with only two EQs, so I know it's better to compromise if needed than not being able to use half of the amp modes.



Have you ever easily solved it on a Mesa?


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## Musiscience (Nov 30, 2020)

narad said:


> You can always accomplish the pseudo third channel stuff with a pedal. Probably makes sense to just leave it off the amp. Personally I'm getting tired of amps with a million things on there. I'm selling almost all my 3 channel amps, so I really appreciate how straight-up simple this one is.



I agree with this. To my ears, an overdrive on top of the rythm channel with reverb/delay almost always sounds better than a dedicated lead channel anyway. With the badlander, I would probably use two OD's. One for high gain leads with the gain knob all the way down and one to taste for "clean" leads on balads, probably an OCD. 

What tubes practically always does better than a pedal is high gain rythm tones.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Nov 30, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Reza like his amps middy and wide sounding. He dials them like how he dials his Bogners and Diezels. Even his Mesa Mark demos are not what I would call optimal settings for a Mark.



Boost the mids... and cover in his sweaty stank bare hairy Hobbit foot funk. That's how he rolls.



MatrixClaw said:


> Yeah, I don't think I've listened to any of his videos and thought they sounded anywhere close to how I'd dial the amp.



Agreed.



technomancer said:


> Reza literally buys, demos, and flips every new amp so hardly shocking



He is searching for his soul mate.


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## viifox (Dec 1, 2020)

Would love to play/hear the Badlander next to a MW triple in person.


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## technomancer (Dec 2, 2020)

So just saw the first gutshots of one of these. Interestingly enough the "Cabclone IR" is literally a TwoNotes board...

Photo stolen from msi on another forum
View media item 3587


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## Mr. Chainsaw (Dec 2, 2020)

technomancer said:


> So just saw the first gutshots of one of these. Interestingly enough the "Cabclone IR" is literally a TwoNotes board...
> 
> Photo stolen from msi on another forum
> View media item 3587



Yea Glenn made a video about it earlier this year (skip to end of video to see):



In the comments there's a pinned comment quoted from the Two Notes CEO:

"...Alright, let's put some facts in there. Mesa Boogie created a design around our Torpedo Embedded Board, the same board used by our friends from Revv in their D20 and G20. They decided to provide a simple IR loader so it's not the TN software you know in our digital units. They are an awesome brand and team to work with, I'll see what we can do to help them fix the weird IEM noise..."


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## MASS DEFECT (Dec 2, 2020)

Does this have more gain than the latest Multiwatts?


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## SkullCrusher (Dec 2, 2020)

A question to you all, are you interested in the badlander for the ir and load box capability or just the amp itself? I personally would rather it didn't... but hey I'm really oldschool.

Is it just me or does Glenn Fricker remind you of a Simpson's character? I do enjoy his videos though.


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## cmpxchg (Dec 2, 2020)

No interest in the load box in the amp for me because I already have a Suhr Reactive Load, but I suspect it's going to become table stakes for higher end amps to include those soon (see also Revv and Diezel).

Have to admit, almost cancelled my preorder a few times now (the Reza vid was not encouraging at all), but there have been enough good sounds in some of the demos that I think I'll give it a shot.


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## Thaeon (Dec 2, 2020)

SkullCrusher said:


> A question to you all, are you interested in the badlander for the ir and load box capability or just the amp itself? I personally would rather it didn't... but hey I'm really oldschool.
> 
> Is it just me or does Glenn Fricker remind you of a Simpson's character? I do enjoy his videos though.



I'm more interested in MIDI than the Load Box.


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## rexbinary (Dec 2, 2020)

SkullCrusher said:


> A question to you all, are you interested in the badlander for the ir and load box capability or just the amp itself? I personally would rather it didn't... but hey I'm really oldschool.



After picking up a Captor X to use with my 5153 50w I'll probably never use physical mics again. So with this amp having a Two-Notes unit built into it makes it more attractive to me. I believe this will be the trend going forward for most tube amps.


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## Thaeon (Dec 2, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> After picking up a Captor X to use with my 5153 50w I'll probably never use physical mics again. So with this amp having a Two-Notes unit built into it makes it more attractive to me. I believe this will be the trend going forward for most tube amps.



I definitely agree there.


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## laxu (Dec 3, 2020)

SkullCrusher said:


> A question to you all, are you interested in the badlander for the ir and load box capability or just the amp itself? I personally would rather it didn't... but hey I'm really oldschool.
> 
> Is it just me or does Glenn Fricker remind you of a Simpson's character? I do enjoy his videos though.



I really, really hate Glenn's delivery. That "angry at everything" thing is just annoying. I don't know if he's that abrasive in person or not. You can see a lot of other youtubers who use this sort of persona like that Unbox Therapy guy that reviews smartphones.

To me the IR capability is more of a nice to have thing, I like how the amp sounds. The problem is that it's priced the same as the multiwatt Rectos at least in Europe and I think I'd rather have one of those than the Badlander. Waiting for someone to put the two head to head and see how different they really sound and whether the MW can be set up to sound close to the Badlander and vice versa.

For me IR capability built in is unnecessary. I would prefer a good reactive load and line out without any kind of cab sim as a standard feature on modern tube amps so that you can easily play it silently or run it without micing live. Bringing a Mooer Radar or Two Notes CAB M isn't much extra gear to carry and you can upgrade the IR portion as better devices come to market. I'm sure the Two Notes stuff adds a decent chunk of extra cost to have it built in amps as well as the development cost of integrating it and choosing stock IRs etc.


----------



## rexbinary (Dec 3, 2020)

laxu said:


> For me IR capability built in is unnecessary. I would prefer a good reactive load and line out without any kind of cab sim as a standard feature on modern tube amps so that you can easily play it silently or run it without micing live. Bringing a Mooer Radar or Two Notes CAB M isn't much extra gear to carry and you can upgrade the IR portion as better devices come to market. I'm sure the Two Notes stuff adds a decent chunk of extra cost to have it built in amps as well as the development cost of integrating it and choosing stock IRs etc.



Sounds fair. Although, you can still use any load you want with it of course. As far as the extra cost for integrating the two notes unit I think no one buys Mesa Boogie to save money, or at least they shouldn't.


----------



## laxu (Dec 4, 2020)

rexbinary said:


> Sounds fair. Although, you can still use any load you want with it of course. As far as the extra cost for integrating the two notes unit I think no one buys Mesa Boogie to save money, or at least they shouldn't.



Oh I agree but it's in a price range where there is a whole lot of competition, whether from Mesa themselves or other brands. As far as two channel high gain amps go, a Diezel VH2 over here is almost 1000 euros cheaper and the REVV Generator MK3 is only a few hundred euros more. Now these might be flipped in the US as Mesas are generally considerably cheaper there.

If the 100W Badlander was somewhere in the 2300-2400 euro range I would have no complaints but at 2700 € it's a hard sell when you have the more versatile Mesa Triple Crown, Multiwatt Dual Recto, Mark V etc pretty close.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 4, 2020)

Sounds pretty damn good here imo


----------



## Frostbite (Dec 4, 2020)

laxu said:


> I really, really hate Glenn's delivery. That "angry at everything" thing is just annoying. I don't know if he's that abrasive in person or not. You can see a lot of other youtubers who use this sort of persona like that Unbox Therapy guy that reviews smartphones.
> .


Glenn's a fucking shill. This dude shits on anyone who uses programmed drums because they lack "character" and then keeps recommending Bias and their shit ass dick products


----------



## Meeotch (Dec 5, 2020)

Frostbite said:


> their shit ass dick products


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 5, 2020)

Frostbite said:


> Glenn's a fucking shill. This dude shits on anyone who uses programmed drums because they lack "character" and then keeps recommending Bias and their shit ass dick products


all of the bigger gear channels are shills


----------



## laxu (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> all of the bigger gear channels are shills



Pretty much. You can see it when so many channels post reviews of the same new devices around the same time. You rarely see any legit criticism of new products and the value of those videos is just seeing and hearing it in action. I am not going to lie, I would do the same if I had a YT channel and got sent gear to try.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> all of the bigger gear channels are shills


Honestly, what's a good channel that's pretty straight forward and reliable with things? I've got a few I like personally but I've never really taken their opinions for anything due to a lot of the bigger channels.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 5, 2020)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Honestly, what's a good channel that's pretty straight forward and reliable with things? I've got a few I like personally but I've never really taken their opinions for anything due to a lot of the bigger channels.


There are a few that I think are worth checking out. Arnoldplaysguitar . plaguescythe studios. Leon todd. metalhead productions. tonewars. Brett Kingman. Kohlekeller studios.

Avoid Fluff, Ola, Rabea, John Browne, Spectre, Eytschpi42, Keith Merrow, Agufish. Ola, Rabea, John Browne and Keith are only good for demos, but even then I don't trust their demos (except in comparison to other demos of the product), as they tend to make everything sound very polished, which can be very misleading. I remember the Bias/Headrush demos floating around from them and some people were pretty angry they couldn't get that polished of tones to start with (headrush is actually solid though imo).


Honestly I tend to like looking for videos from guys with barely any subs as they have zero reason to sugar coat issues and usually give a better idea of how stuff will sound when the average user gets hold of it.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> There are a few that I think are worth checking out. Arnoldplaysguitar . plaguescythe studios. Leon todd. metalhead productions. tonewars. Brett Kingman. Kohlekeller studios.
> 
> Avoid Fluff, Ola, Rabea, John Browne, Spectre, Eytschpi42, Keith Merrow, Agufish. Ola, Rabea, John Browne and Keith are only good for demos, but even then I don't trust their demos (except in comparison to other demos of the product), as they tend to make everything sound very polished, which can be very misleading. I remember the Bias/Headrush demos floating around from them and some people were pretty angry they couldn't get that polished of tones to start with (headrush is actually solid though imo).
> 
> ...



I just found the tone wars guy yesterday and he seems pretty legit so far. Thanks for all the recommendations!


----------



## laxu (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I don't trust their demos (except in comparison to other demos of the product), as they tend to make everything sound very polished, which can be very misleading. I remember the Bias/Headrush demos floating around from them and some people were pretty angry they couldn't get that polished of tones to start with (headrush is actually solid though imo).



There's a difference between knowing how to use something vs tons of post-processing done on it after recording. 

A lot of people probably buy some plugins after hearing good demos and then don't understand input/output gain staging and getting proper levels out of these compared to listening to a YouTube demo where the levels are often very close to clipping whereas plugins tend to default to lower output levels so they can be used in a mix properly. Then these same people will listen to them at far lower volume levels than that YouTube demo had and wonder why it doesn't sound as good.

With real gear the difference is how they are miced vs how your hear a cab on the floor in a dinky little room with no acoustic treatment. There's a lot of people who spend all their money on an amp and then buy the shittiest cab and wonder why it does not sound like the world class rig used to demo it.

I agree that if a whole bunch of post processing is done on something then it definitely can be misleading as it's shaped to fit into a mix rather than the mix built around the tone you got from the gear.


----------



## LCW (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> There are a few that I think are worth checking out. Arnoldplaysguitar . plaguescythe studios. Leon todd. metalhead productions. tonewars. Brett Kingman. Kohlekeller studios.
> 
> Avoid Fluff, Ola, Rabea, John Browne, Spectre, Eytschpi42, Keith Merrow, Agufish. Ola, Rabea, John Browne and Keith are only good for demos, but even then I don't trust their demos (except in comparison to other demos of the product), as they tend to make everything sound very polished, which can be very misleading. I remember the Bias/Headrush demos floating around from them and some people were pretty angry they couldn't get that polished of tones to start with (headrush is actually solid though imo).
> 
> ...



Sonic Drive Studios is decent as well.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 5, 2020)

LCW said:


> Sonic Drive Studios is decent as well.



He IS great, but he kinda goes in the very-latter section of making-everything-sound-too-fucking-good.  Also I love Jon but I've yet to see him dislike anything.

Also yeah I stopped watching Agufish once companies started to send him free stuff, especially Harley Benton. His stuff was great when he was just borrowing stuff from his local Samash. Arnoldplaysguitar is basically the same deal, but he goes into even more detail and is legitimately unbiased.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> There are a few that I think are worth checking out. Arnoldplaysguitar . plaguescythe studios. Leon todd. metalhead productions. tonewars. Brett Kingman. Kohlekeller studios.
> 
> Avoid Fluff, Ola, Rabea, John Browne, Spectre, Eytschpi42, Keith Merrow, Agufish. Ola, Rabea, John Browne and Keith are only good for demos, but even then I don't trust their demos (except in comparison to other demos of the product), as they tend to make everything sound very polished, which can be very misleading. I remember the Bias/Headrush demos floating around from them and some people were pretty angry they couldn't get that polished of tones to start with (headrush is actually solid though imo).
> 
> ...



I think most of the quality demos I've seen come from regular SSO people. YT is Sturgeon's Law (if that isn't just a trope/meme but true).


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 5, 2020)

The Jamie Humphries video sounded good. So did the Sweetwater video; I like how they show its versatility a little. The amp also sounds good in the Tone Wars video imo (though I’m just in the beginning).


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Dec 5, 2020)

Tone Wars just sometime drowns his amps with too much gain. I think he uses a Precision Drive and it makes some amps sound samey.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Dec 5, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Tone Wars just sometime drowns his amps with too much gain. I think he uses a Precision Drive and it makes some amps sound samey.


Agreed, way too hairy for me. I can’t stand his sound


----------



## protest (Dec 5, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Tone Wars just sometime drowns his amps with too much gain. I think he uses a Precision Drive and it makes some amps sound samey.



Yea he uses way too much gain for me haha. I think he uses the Precision Drive in a way similar to how I boost stuff though, which is more or less unity gain and just using it for the EQ effect rather than your typical pedal volume on 10, super boosted tone.


----------



## Frostbite (Dec 5, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> all of the bigger gear channels are shills


Yeah the only bigger channels I watch are Rabea because he's a pretty big inspiration for me, Fluff cause he gets cool things like the Rev D he did a video on recently every once and a while and Agufish, even though his "IT NOT SINGLE CUT ME NO LIKE" thing is always a bit annoying, he does still do legit quality reviews where he points out flaws on stuff that gets sent to him. One that comes to mind is the Sterling Majesty review.

Plague Sycthe is great. I appreciate his more in depth videos really. Stuff like the EQ curves of the Fortin 33/Grind and how it compared to the TC, the precision drive and a few other boosts/overdrives.


----------



## Thaeon (Dec 6, 2020)

Frostbite said:


> Yeah the only bigger channels I watch are Rabea because he's a pretty big inspiration for me, Fluff cause he gets cool things like the Rev D he did a video on recently every once and a while and Agufish, even though his "IT NOT SINGLE CUT ME NO LIKE" thing is always a bit annoying, he does still do legit quality reviews where he points out flaws on stuff that gets sent to him. One that comes to mind is the Sterling Majesty review.
> 
> Plague Sycthe is great. I appreciate his more in depth videos really. Stuff like the EQ curves of the Fortin 33/Grind and how it compared to the TC, the precision drive and a few other boosts/overdrives.



I actually trust Pete Thorn. He won’t demo something he thinks is trash. The reason you don’t see shitty sounding stuff on his channel is because he doesn’t want to have to demo it. We’re also talking about a dude who doesn’t have to do the Demo thing if he doesn’t want to.


----------



## StevenC (Dec 6, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> I actually trust Pete Thorn. He won’t demo something he thinks is trash. The reason you don’t see shitty sounding stuff on his channel is because he doesn’t want to have to demo it. We’re also talking about a dude who doesn’t have to do the Demo thing if he doesn’t want to.


Same with Tim Pierce. But you also have to remember this is SSO and, as much as we claim the extra low strings are for complex chord voicings, people here only care about t3h brutes.


----------



## protest (Dec 7, 2020)

Here's a demo from a random dude. In the comments he mentions that it's brighter, tighter, and has more gain than his Rev F.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 7, 2020)

I’m starting to warm up to this amp.


----------



## Jon Pearson (Dec 7, 2020)

Just as a fun little experiement I put some E34Ls into my Roadster to see if I got any closer to the Badlander. Conclusion? Nope.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 7, 2020)

In case you're wondering how it does boosted.



Jon Pearson said:


> Just as a fun little experiement I put some E34Ls into my Roadster to see if I got any closer to the Badlander. Conclusion? Nope.



Was getting a laugh out of the people saying "My boosted Recto sounds the same" or "My EL34-loaded 2-channel Recto can do it" and they like... were going by pretty bad sounding demos.


----------



## Jon Pearson (Dec 7, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> In case you're wondering how it does boosted.
> 
> 
> 
> Was getting a laugh out of the people saying "My boosted Recto sounds the same" or "My EL34-loaded 2-channel Recto can do it" and they like... were going by pretty bad sounding demos.




Even if you were going off some of the better demos, I think this one sounds pretty different to the regular Recs. This one really does remind me of the TC a bit.

Those drums could use a little level cut in that video but that sounds pretty good.


----------



## LCW (Dec 7, 2020)

protest said:


> Here's a demo from a random dude. In the comments he mentions that it's brighter, tighter, and has more gain than his Rev F.




His Rev F must be defective then.


----------



## narad (Dec 7, 2020)

LCW said:


> His Rev F must be defective then.



I mean, I think it's pretty established that these are brighter and tighter than a Rev F. Sounds that way compared to mine.


----------



## protest (Dec 8, 2020)

LCW said:


> His Rev F must be defective then.



Do you own both amps?


----------



## BadSeed (Dec 8, 2020)

I canceled my pre order with Sweetwater since they Backordered for another 2 weeks and just ordered one directly from Mesa. It'll be here Monday, I'll compare it with my 3 ch and Multiwatt rectifiers


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 8, 2020)

Sigh...


----------



## Jon Pearson (Dec 8, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Sigh...




Can we expect a review from you soon?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 8, 2020)

Jon Pearson said:


> Can we expect a review from you soon?


 
Oh shut it, you. I hate this place.


----------



## narad (Dec 8, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Oh shut it, you. I hate this place.



6L6s, please.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 9, 2020)

narad said:


> 6L6s, please.




Yeah, yeah.


(Grumble)


----------



## Bearitone (Dec 9, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Ola be like : yo dawg I heard y'all like boosted rectos so I added another boost on top of the already "boosted" sound.


I mean, it did sound better with a boost.


----------



## LCW (Dec 9, 2020)

narad said:


> I mean, I think it's pretty established that these are brighter and tighter than a Rev F. Sounds that way compared to mine.



Not arguing that part. No way a Badlander had more gain though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 11, 2020)

Phone cam recording. But the dude is making it sound like if you hated Rectos before, you need to try this amp.


----------



## Jeff (Dec 11, 2020)

Jon Pearson said:


> Even if you were going off some of the better demos, I think this one sounds pretty different to the regular Recs. This one really does remind me of the TC a bit.
> 
> Those drums could use a little level cut in that video but that sounds pretty good.



it’s not as British-ey as a TC, but yeah to me it’s like a hotrodded Marshall knocked up a recto, and this is the result. It’s tighter, brighter, and the EQ makes way more sense. I greatly prefer it to a Recto Reborn.


----------



## viifox (Dec 11, 2020)

Damn, this amp just seems to sound better and better. Would love to be able to play one before pulling the trigger.


----------



## viifox (Dec 11, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Phone cam recording. But the dude is making it sound like if you hated Rectos before, you need to try this amp.



The dude gets bonus points for the X-Men shirt.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 11, 2020)

viifox said:


> The dude gets bonus points for the X-Men shirt.



This is the way.


----------



## viifox (Dec 11, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> This is the way.


Haha! Bonus points for you!!!


----------



## cmpxchg (Dec 12, 2020)

Preorder shipped from Sweetwater on Tuesday and was supposed to arrive yesterday, but Fedex has screwed me and they now say I won't get it until this Tuesday. we'll see...


----------



## protest (Dec 12, 2020)

My buddy has one, said it's pretty sweet once you turn it up a little. I might borrow it for a few days to check out.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 12, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> Preorder shipped from Sweetwater on Tuesday and was supposed to arrive yesterday, but Fedex has screwed me and they now say I won't get it until this Tuesday. we'll see...



I have horrible luck with FedEx.


----------



## viifox (Dec 12, 2020)

protest said:


> it's pretty sweet once you turn it up a little.



Typical recto


----------



## protest (Dec 13, 2020)

Ok so, just got it literally 30 minutes ago.

1) It sounds good at low volume unlike any recto I've tried before

2) It is insanely tight


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 13, 2020)

protest said:


> Ok so, just got it literally 30 minutes ago.
> 
> 1) It sounds good at low volume unlike any recto I've tried before
> 
> 2) It is insanely tight


are we talking Mark levels of tight, or Pittbull?


----------



## protest (Dec 13, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> are we talking Mark levels of tight, or Pittbull?



I need to turn it up more to see how much low end kicks in as the volume goes up. I'm in a townhouse with a 9:00 noise ordinance, so that's a tomorrow after work thing. I'll A/B it with my Mark V.


----------



## cmpxchg (Dec 13, 2020)

protest said:


> Ok so, just got it literally 30 minutes ago.
> 
> 1) It sounds good at low volume unlike any recto I've tried before
> 
> 2) It is insanely tight


Got mine, haven't had too much time with it but this sounds about right. It doesn't remind me of the TC-100 nearly as much as I was worried it would--I'll A/B those sometime. Turned the bass up to 3 o'clock on the high-gain channel, and it's darker but not boomy/flubby/farty. I need to spend a lot more time with it (6L6s! other guitars!) but so far I'm a fan. also goddamn it takes boosts so well


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Dec 14, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> Got mine, haven't had too much time with it but this sounds about right. It doesn't remind me of the TC-100 nearly as much as I was worried it would--I'll A/B those sometime. Turned the bass up to 3 o'clock on the high-gain channel, and it's darker but not boomy/flubby/farty. I need to spend a lot more time with it (6L6s! other guitars!) but so far I'm a fan. also goddamn it takes boosts so well



Im on the fence with the TC100 and the Badlander. I have a good memory of a TC50 I have used. Which is more saturated, the TC or the Badlander?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 14, 2020)

The TC-50 was very good. The TC-100 was better to me because of the slightly increased bottom end and the fact that I could use 6V6s without losing too much headroom. Those are good amps—if I hadn’t been obsessed with the 5150 tone I’d probably have kept it. I don’t think @viifox liked the TC-100 very much though?


----------



## viifox (Dec 14, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> The TC-50 was very good. The TC-100 was better to me because of the slightly increased bottom end and the fact that I could use 6V6s without losing too much headroom. Those are good amps—if I hadn’t been obsessed with the 5150 tone I’d probably have kept it. I don’t think @viifox liked the TC-100 very much though?


I think i was just really sensitive to the fan inside of the TC100. It wouldn't have been noticeable at louder volumes though.

I definitely liked the tone of the amp overall. Excellent cleans and crazy smooth gain structure.

The TC100 definitely has more "oomph" than the TC50, which almost has no bottom end compared to something like a recto or 5150.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Dec 14, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> The TC-50 was very good. The TC-100 was better to me because of the slightly increased bottom end and the fact that I could use 6V6s without losing too much headroom. Those are good amps—if I hadn’t been obsessed with the 5150 tone I’d probably have kept it. I don’t think @viifox liked the TC-100 very much though?


Agreed, I played one next to a JP2C and as much as I tried to not, I much preferred the TC100. Only thing I did not like was that its lead tones were a little "sterile(?)" something felt olf when holding long sustained notes. 

I also preferred it to the Royal Atlantic that everyone seemed to love at one point


----------



## Jon Pearson (Dec 14, 2020)

Mesa really knows how to ignite my GAS, i'll give them that. I honestly tempted to buy this thing just to satisfy my curiosity, but I know if I get it I likely won't get rid of it.


----------



## protest (Dec 14, 2020)

Spent some more time with it today.

The volume ramps up pretty quick, similar to other Mesa's without a master volume. At around 9:00 the low-end really kicks in.

Overall the character of the distortion is still a Recto, especially in Crush mode. If you set the mids around 9:00 and push the presence and bass above noon you can get more of the traditional Recto tone.

The presence is definitely nicer on this than other rectifiers, and there's no fizz unless you want to add it in with a high presence setting.

It's tight.

Crush mode hangs with a Mark V in Extreme mode for tightness, but has an overall stiffer feel. Less cut on the 750 slider on the Mark would get the feel closer. 

Crunch mode has a similar tightness and feel to a VHT Pittbull CL, but with less overall gain then if you run a Pittbull with all the gain boosts. It is not the Vintage mode from a 2 Channel. 

The transition from Crunch to Crush isn't anywhere near as drastic as most other Mesa mode changes. This actually sounds like the same amp when you change modes.

Leads are way better on this than any other Recto I've played, but the feel is stiffer than what I would want.


----------



## viifox (Dec 14, 2020)

protest said:


> Spent some more time with it today.
> 
> The volume ramps up pretty quick, similar to other Mesa's without a master volume. At around 9:00 the low-end really kicks in.
> 
> ...



How are the cleans? Lonestar?


----------



## protest (Dec 14, 2020)

viifox said:


> How are the cleans? Lonestar?



Very nice, but not as round and warm as a Lonestar.


----------



## viifox (Dec 14, 2020)

protest said:


> Very nice, but not as round and warm as a Lonestar.


Does it still have that classic "punch you in the gut" recto roar?


----------



## viifox (Dec 14, 2020)

Looks like my local dealer has one in stock.

Fu$! me...


----------



## narad (Dec 14, 2020)

Saw on insta they sent one out to Misha too, and he had good things to say about it (which I guess is obvious since it's like a promo)


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Dec 15, 2020)

This sounds more Meshuggah than the Fortin Meshuggah. lol


----------



## cmpxchg (Dec 15, 2020)

haven't had too much more time to play with it thanks to work, but some thoughts after playing for a few hours last night (still in honeymoon phase, so take with a grain of salt):

- cleans: TC-100 is definitely more "sparkly" cleans, but in some ways I find the Badlander much easier to dial in, especially for a pushed clean. I never had an easy time making the TC sound good with the pushed clean toggle active. Badlander with gain at 11 and EQ roughly noonish is a little bit pushed and sounds pretty good with zero fuss. (Badlander cleans also seem more compressed than TC, which probably contributes to less sparkle but easier to dial)
- master volume is absurdly sensitive. I run my amps into a Suhr loadbox, and with the way I have that set up I had plenty of headroom with the TC at noonish on the channel masters and 11 on the master output. Badlander is at the same volume at 9:30 and seems to get way louder if I so much as breathe on the knob. It's a little more relaxed with the amp in variac mode vs bold, but it's a little annoying.
- I was never a huge fan of channel 3 in the TC--it's got so much gain in a way I don't really want or need, but I'm also not much of a lead player. Channel 2 with gain at 3ish and tight switch on is the sound I kept going to on that amp. That said, I felt like the EQ on channel 2 wasn't really set up for that much gain and I always wanted to tweak it just a little bit differently than what was easily available ("EQ in the loop," I know, I'm lazy and never did it). Badlander crunch feels like a similar character but with more gain and more usable EQ. I might decide that's total nonsense if I get around to reamping something for a blind A/B, but that's my impression thus far (again, honeymoon). Crush is the same basic character at similar EQ settings, just more of it. But if you scoop the mids (9? 10?) and turn up the bass, it sounds much closer to what I think of as a Recto sound. Even then, it doesn't really need a boost, so it may not be that Recto-like (never owned a Recto).
- I haven't owned any "stiff" amps and I was pretty tired when playing yesterday, but wow this amp seems unforgiving to play. Somehow it feels like I can't hide flubs with it the way I can with a 5150 or TC.

Still haven't tried 6L6s, but that might be a few days.


----------



## protest (Dec 15, 2020)

viifox said:


> Does it still have that classic "punch you in the gut" recto roar?



Yes and no. It still throws out a ton of low end, but it's not as deep and "3D" sounding. It's more immediate. My initial impression is that it felt more like playing a Pittbull than a Recto. 

I definitely think there are going to be people that prefer a 2 Channel or Multiwatt with a boost to this amp for that reason. 

I was able to get it more of the classic recto tone from scoping the mids out and bumping the presence and bass. I'll try some more tomorrow. I have a feeling I'll be able to get it close-ish with the variac to soften up the attack.


----------



## viifox (Dec 15, 2020)

I gotta ask, does the Badlander exhibit the same notorious enigma that all rectos have? Ya know, the one where you find your ideal settings, and then the very next day it sounds like a completely different amp?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 15, 2020)

lawd

Guy who did this video said the only pedal used was a noise gate. No boosts or anything.


----------



## metaljohn (Dec 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> lawd
> 
> Guy who did this video said the only pedal used was a noise gate. No boosts or anything.




It definitely sounds good, but it also definitely sounds unboosted.


----------



## protest (Dec 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> lawd
> 
> Guy who did this video said the only pedal used was a noise gate. No boosts or anything.




And those settings have the bass at 3:00, gain maxed, and mids at 10:30.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 16, 2020)

metaljohn said:


> It definitely sounds good, but it also definitely sounds unboosted.


 Yeah but it's still a trip to hear a Recto sound that bright and tight unboosted.


----------



## viifox (Dec 16, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> lawd
> 
> Guy who did this video said the only pedal used was a noise gate. No boosts or anything.



Royal Atlantic my ass!


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Dec 16, 2020)

w


viifox said:


> Royal Atlantic my ass!


am I missing something here? When did anyone compare it to a Royal Atlantic?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 16, 2020)

DeathByButterslax said:


> w
> 
> am I missing something here? When did anyone compare it to a Royal Atlantic?



Some people think it's just a previous amp that Mesa rebadged.


----------



## viifox (Dec 16, 2020)

Alright, that was the most uncomfortable guitar shop experience ever.

So I go in to try out the Badlander, and they only have 1 floor model. I ask if i can demo it, and they literally ask "Are you gonna buy it?". I tell them that I can't answer that question without actually playing the amp.

I then ask if they would be willing to knock off a few bucks (if i decide to buy) since it's a floor model. Solid NO answer.

I tell the guy that's a dealbreaker, so he basically wouldn't even let me play the damn thing.

And mom/pop shops wonder why they can't compete. Good fucking hell.


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## sakeido (Dec 16, 2020)

DeathByButterslax said:


> w
> 
> am I missing something here? When did anyone compare it to a Royal Atlantic?


I did. Lots of those early Badlander clips made it sound like it belonged more in that line of British-but-American amps Mesa's been making. 

That last clip is the first one I've heard that actually makes it sound like a Recto, but that's mostly cuz the double tracks aren't tight at all so it adds a ton of flub. If you solo one channel I hear only the faintest hint of Recto. Mesa throws that flavor of lots of amps and am stickin to my opinion, it's barely a Recto... must be why they called it Badlander and offer it alongside the multi-watts



viifox said:


> Alright, that was the most uncomfortable guitar shop experience ever.
> 
> So I go in to try out the Badlander, and they only have 1 floor model. I ask if i can demo it, and they literally ask "Are you gonna buy it?". I tell them that I can't answer that question without actually playing the amp.
> 
> ...


Meanwhile shop up here is ordering one in for me. Even after I said I already have a few amps, cabclone, all the rest and expect there's a <10% chance I'd keep it. "No problem" all the way, unless they find out I used it for a YouTube channel, in which case they'll freeze my account and I'll owe steep rental fees for every day it was away and I'm pretty sure he was joking about that


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## viifox (Dec 16, 2020)

sakeido said:


> I did. Lots of those early Badlander clips made it sound like it belonged more in that line of British-but-American amps Mesa's been making.
> 
> That last clip is the first one I've heard that actually makes it sound like a Recto, but that's mostly cuz the double tracks aren't tight at all so it adds a ton of flub. If you solo one channel I hear only the faintest hint of Recto. Mesa throws that flavor of lots of amps and am stickin to my opinion, it's barely a Recto... must be why they called it Badlander and offer it alongside the multi-watts
> 
> ...


At least there's still local shops who are cool enough to do that.

These guys were acting like Gollum, and the Badlander was thier "Precious!!!".


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## Mathemagician (Dec 16, 2020)

Instagram threw up a picture of the 50 watt rackmount in case it hasn’t been confirmed yet. (I haven’t read the whole thread)


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## cwhitey2 (Dec 16, 2020)

Mathemagician said:


> Instagram threw up a picture of the 50 watt rackmount in case it hasn’t been confirmed yet. (I haven’t read the whole thread)


Mesa confirmed the rackmount!


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## Deadpool_25 (Dec 17, 2020)

viifox said:


> Alright, that was the most uncomfortable guitar shop experience ever.
> 
> So I go in to try out the Badlander, and they only have 1 floor model. I ask if i can demo it, and they literally ask "Are you gonna buy it?". I tell them that I can't answer that question without actually playing the amp.
> 
> ...



This still blows me away. They sound like assholes. If someone comes in, let them play it so they can see if they like it. Just seems so obvious.

I kinda agree with them on the price though. It’s too new to need discounted. If it was my shop I wouldn’t have questioned you about intent. “Yeah man plug in!” But when done if you wanted it I’d sell at the “standard” price or offer to order you one.

Overall just seems so ridiculous to not let you play the damn thing!


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## viifox (Dec 17, 2020)

Deadpool_25 said:


> This still blows me away. They sound like assholes. If someone comes in, let them play it so they can see if they like it. Just seems so obvious.
> 
> I kinda agree with them on the price though. It’s too new to need discounted. If it was my shop I wouldn’t have questioned you about intent. “Yeah man plug in!” But when done if you wanted it I’d sell at the “standard” price or offer to order you one.
> 
> Overall just seems so ridiculous to not let you play the damn thing!


Pretty much my thoughts as well. I showed up with my own guitar, so that should have told the guy that i was serious about buying.

And to an extent, I can understand if the guy didn't want to discount it for being a floor model, but he should probably also understand that I have zero incentive to buy a floor model at full price. Maybe if it was the only one in existance? And he really should have offered to order another one. What a missed opportunity.

But yeah, not letting me play it because I wasn't committed to buying is incredibly uninviting, and i won't be stepping foot into his store again.

To be 100% fair though, i emailed him explaining how i felt about the experience, and he did apologize, and felt like they could have handled it differently. But as a customer, I'm one of those guys that won't give you the time of day again if i feel like i was treated poorly. There's others stores that would appreciate me and my dollar a lot more.


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## KnightBrolaire (Dec 19, 2020)

another good demo of the badlander. Sounds tiiiiight


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## Spicypickles (Dec 20, 2020)

Hmmmmm. Tight indeed but there was zero body to the sound. Also, that dude has a weak ass right hand. Looked/sounded like he was barely picking.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 21, 2020)

I'm starting to notice these going up used frequently. A least one or two a day.


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## MASS DEFECT (Dec 21, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm starting to notice these going up used frequently. A least one or two a day.


There's one 100w in my local Craigslist right now. He lists it at 2k with free 6l6 tubes. Kinda tempting. 

But I would guess, the JP can get close to that sound.


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## Jeff (Dec 21, 2020)

sakeido said:


> I did. Lots of those early Badlander clips made it sound like it belonged more in that line of British-but-American amps Mesa's been making.
> 
> That last clip is the first one I've heard that actually makes it sound like a Recto, but that's mostly cuz the double tracks aren't tight at all so it adds a ton of flub. If you solo one channel I hear only the faintest hint of Recto. Mesa throws that flavor of lots of amps and am stickin to my opinion, it's barely a Recto... must be why they called it Badlander and offer it alongside the multi-watts
> 
> ...



It doesn’t sound like a Royal Atlantic. It sounds like a modern, tighter Rectifier. I’ve actually played one, and am not basing my opinions off of YouTube clips. I ordered one too, and will be keeping it, not just abusing shop return policies.


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## bulb (Dec 22, 2020)

brighter and tighter than my rev g, but something is kinda missing in the low mid
still a way cool amp


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## sakeido (Dec 22, 2020)

Jeff said:


> It doesn’t sound like a Royal Atlantic. It sounds like a modern, tighter Rectifier. I’ve actually played one, and am not basing my opinions off of YouTube clips. I ordered one too, and will be keeping it, not just abusing shop return policies.


good for you!


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## DeathByButterslax (Dec 22, 2020)

bulb said:


> brighter and tighter than my rev g, but something is kinda missing in the low mid
> still a way cool amp


Hey Misha, how does it stack up to the Granophyre?


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## Deadpool_25 (Dec 22, 2020)

Couple more vids are up. I really like the crunch and crush (annoying name) modes here. Sounds super thick and meaty without being flubby. 



And he did another one kinda comparing it to his Mark IV. The Mark is a lot brighter though, mostly due to settings as far as I can tell. The Badlander can obviously get brighter than that and the IV can get darker.


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## MASS DEFECT (Dec 22, 2020)

Kinda hollow in the mids in that demo. The Mark had a more "complete" sound. 

I appreciate he used PAFs. Crush in full gain may be sufficient unboosted with an active pup.


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## btbg (Dec 22, 2020)

Only a tone deaf moron would think the BL sounds anything like a Royal Atlantic.

Only a complete dick would buy one, use it, and then return just for the sake of "trying one"


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## btbg (Dec 22, 2020)

bulb said:


> brighter and tighter than my rev g, but something is kinda missing in the low mid
> still a way cool amp



At least its actually available to buy. Where's that invective MH, BTW?


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## sakeido (Dec 22, 2020)

btbg said:


> Only a tone deaf moron would think the BL sounds anything like a Royal Atlantic.
> 
> Only a complete dick would buy one, use it, and then return just for the sake of "trying one"



Good thing I've spent tens of thousands of dollars with them over the years and made it very clear what my plan was. Helps making friends with the guys and working with them on some stuff too  Treat your sales guys like people and all kinds of awesome things can happen. 

In fact, why not give it a try right now? Go out to a Peavey dealer, chat a guy up, and see if he can track down an Invective MH for you. They're the only guys who can help you anyway!


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## cmpxchg (Dec 22, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I appreciate he used PAFs. Crush in full gain may be sufficient unboosted with an active pup.


funny you mention that--I've been pretty meh on voice 1 on my Fluence Moderns since I got them and have been thinking about the low gain jumper, but voice 1 unboosted into crush sounds really good and is the first time I've preferred it to voice 2. it's the first time for me on any amp that voice 1 has felt like more than a minor volume bump and an EQ shift, the amp feels different when it's being pushed.


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## Jeff (Dec 22, 2020)

sakeido said:


> Good thing I've spent tens of thousands of dollars with them over the years and made it very clear what my plan was. Helps making friends with the guys and working with them on some stuff too  Treat your sales guys like people and all kinds of awesome things can happen.
> 
> In fact, why not give it a try right now? Go out to a Peavey dealer, chat a guy up, and see if he can track down an Invective MH for you. They're the only guys who can help you anyway!


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## MASS DEFECT (Dec 22, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> funny you mention that--I've been pretty meh on voice 1 on my Fluence Moderns since I got them and have been thinking about the low gain jumper, but voice 1 unboosted into crush sounds really good and is the first time I've preferred it to voice 2. it's the first time for me on any amp that voice 1 has felt like more than a minor volume bump and an EQ shift, the amp feels different when it's being pushed.



I would imagine that V1 on the Moderns is acting like a Tubescreamer with that gain and eq curve. If you are using V1 on Crush, try boosting the bass more and scooping off some mids. The Badlander mids are more upfront and I would think it might be too much with V1 accentuating more mids.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 22, 2020)

Protip: Mesa amps love EMGs and EMG clones.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Protip: Mesa amps love EMGs and EMG clones.



Can confirm. 2 channel Triple rec and fishmans tore major asshole. Wish I could do it again.


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## viifox (Dec 22, 2020)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Can confirm. 2 channel Triple rec and fishmans tore major asshole. Wish I could do it again.


Too bright?


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## Jeff (Dec 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Protip: Mesa amps love EMGs and EMG clones.



Disagree. EMG’s sound like shit. Through everything.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 22, 2020)

viifox said:


> Too bright?


Honestly I didn't think so, I had the mids cranked and a little less presence and treble, and as much as you wouldn't want to on a recto I had the bass decently high. Channel gain up decently as well but the amp was naturally thick and dark without nearly as much gain as you'd expect. The guitar I was running sounded like ass through most amps since it was all mids and bite but it was perfect to tame the recto woof.


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## Shask (Dec 22, 2020)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Can confirm. 2 channel Triple rec and fishmans tore major asshole. Wish I could do it again.


I have a 2-Channel Triple Recto and a PRS CU24 SE Floyd with Fishman Moderns tuned in C#. Major chunkage with that combo.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 22, 2020)

Jeff said:


> Disagree. EMG’s sound like shit. Through everything.


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## MASS DEFECT (Dec 22, 2020)

I'm just happy with the tone Hetfield has in that Guitar Center video where he chugs on a Rectifier while getting interviewed. No pedals, just Hetset and a strong picking hand.


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## Jeff (Dec 22, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Nah, they’re fine. I just prefer Fishmans these days.


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## Bearitone (Dec 25, 2020)

btbg said:


> At least its actually available to buy. Where's that invective MH, BTW?


Why try to instigate some shit on an amp discussion?


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## Deadpool_25 (Dec 25, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> Why try to instigate some shit on an amp discussion?


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## bulb (Dec 28, 2020)

btbg said:


> At least its actually available to buy. Where's that invective MH, BTW?


should have started shipping? everything is slow and somewhat unpredictable now, but at least the amps finally exist and are starting to go out!


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## bulb (Dec 28, 2020)

reamping with it https://www.instagram.com/p/CJKg0fCnlgw/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


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## cmpxchg (Dec 28, 2020)

more thoughts after more time with the 100:

- crunch channel is superb
- crush channel likes a boost (or super high output pickups, eg Fluence Modern V1) but sounds great with pretty much any boost that I've tried (with minor differences depending on the boost EQ)
- EQ knobs have wider usable ranges than on the TC-100, which seemed to like being near noon
- too busy playing it to try 6L6s, whoops

is it a 1:1 replacement for a Dual Rec? no, there's clearly shared lineage, but Badlander is its own thing. is it a minorly tweaked Triple Crown? no, it does not sound that similar to the Triple Crown to my ears, and I've got them sitting next to each other. would I take the Badlander over a Dual Rec? well, I did that, but I've never had a great Dual Rec experience either. for the sounds I like, yeah, I think the Badlander is probably the better choice for me.

what I don't like about the Badlander: the control setup. I like the TC's per-channel EQ and power approach better than the Badlander's two user-configurable channels. for recording, Badlander's fine and maybe better than the TC because I can A/B settings, leave one channel where I like it and tweak the other, but sometimes I miss switching between clean + crunch + crush via footswitch alone. I feel like Badlander would be a pain to use live if you wanted all three sounds. then again, maybe this is a reflection of where things are going (or have gone): use amps in the studio, use modelers live.


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## BadSeed (Dec 28, 2020)

I shot a video doing a brief comparison of the stock EL34 to the 6L6.

TLDR: 6L6 has the same impact you'd expect. More lows/low mids. Less upper mids. More highs. Not as Tight.

I feel the amp shines with the EL34. I'm going to try KT77 and EL34B in the amp in the near future.


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## bulb (Dec 28, 2020)

Oh shit I should try some 6L6 in this, wonder if that might address the low mid thing.
No need for a bias right?


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## BadSeed (Dec 28, 2020)

bulb said:


> Oh shit I should try some 6L6 in this, wonder if that might address the low mid thing.
> No need for a bias right?


No sir. Just toss those bad boys in.


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## cmpxchg (Dec 28, 2020)

BadSeed said:


> No sir. Just toss those bad boys in.


well, that and hit the switch on the back to 6L6. I'm a bit curious about JJ E34Ls in the Badlander; I ended up with those in my TC because they were slightly more aggressive than the Mesa EL34s and I wanted a bit more bass without going 6L6. Definitely want to hear what you get with KT77s, though.


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## Deadpool_25 (Dec 28, 2020)

Still no word on my Badlander 100 ST. But I have a quad of 6L6s just waiting...


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> well, that and hit the switch on the back to 6L6. I'm a bit curious about JJ E34Ls in the Badlander; I ended up with those in my TC because they were slightly more aggressive than the Mesa EL34s and I wanted a bit more bass without going 6L6. Definitely want to hear what you get with KT77s, though.



Yeah, I’d be curious about KT77’s as well.


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## BadSeed (Dec 28, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> well, that and hit the switch on the back to 6L6. I'm a bit curious about JJ E34Ls in the Badlander; I ended up with those in my TC because they were slightly more aggressive than the Mesa EL34s and I wanted a bit more bass without going 6L6. Definitely want to hear what you get with KT77s, though.



I'll be sure to report my findings here. I'm a fucking idiot and forgot to hit record in my DAW while filming so my recorded video on the tube comparison is scrapped for now. I may re record tomorrow.


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## sakeido (Dec 29, 2020)

cmpxchg said:


> more thoughts after more time with the 100:
> 
> - crunch channel is superb
> - crush channel likes a boost (or super high output pickups, eg Fluence Modern V1) but sounds great with pretty much any boost that I've tried (with minor differences depending on the boost EQ)
> ...



Yup crunch tone as sick. Crush tone was a huge letdown. I went from "hey prolly gonna buy this" to "nah fuck it" just with the flip of that switch. Too much money for only one good tone. If it had channel assignable power, I'd happily run two crunches, one at 20w one at 100, but it doesn't for some mysterious reason. No idea why they left that out. Tube recto woulda been really nice to have too.

Crunch is about 90% the same as a Stiletto with a little less saturation and a lot less presence. I was hoping the Crush tone would get down somewhere between Recto Modern and Stiletto Fluid Drive but it's pretty boring. I went back and listened to it through Cabclone, absolutely cranked and liked it better but I was using Beyerdynamic DT880s which are super hyped in the treble. I think you're onto something, it's a really sick studio tone - the rackmount version makes a ton of sense. In the room tho... nah. especially compared to 3 channel stuff Mesa sells for the same amount of cash.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jan 9, 2021)

Intro song sounded pretty good imo


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 9, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Intro song sounded pretty good imo




I like that it doesn't have too much gain.


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## bulb (Jan 10, 2021)

This is Badlander with Precision Drive in front, Suhr loadbox and GGD Zilla on Swedish technique preset with added k100 speaker.


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## c7spheres (Jan 10, 2021)

bulb said:


> This is Badlander with Precision Drive in front, Suhr loadbox and GGD Zilla on Swedish technique preset with added k100 speaker.



There's nothing there/ No link.


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## Jon Pearson (Jan 10, 2021)

bulb said:


> This is Badlander with Precision Drive in front, Suhr loadbox and GGD Zilla on Swedish technique preset with added k100 speaker.




Neato. Sounds pretty dope dude.


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## Jeff (Jan 10, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Intro song sounded pretty good imo




well that rules.


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## narad (Jan 11, 2021)

BadSeed said:


> I'll be sure to report my findings here. I'm a fucking idiot and forgot to hit record in my DAW while filming so my recorded video on the tube comparison is scrapped for now. I may re record tomorrow.



The old angry youtuber with the long hair already proved "scientifically" that tubes don't matter though.


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## BadSeed (Jan 11, 2021)

narad said:


> The old angry youtuber with the long hair already proved "scientifically" that tubes don't matter though.



And then walked it back a bit when another youtuber said they DID notice a difference. Lol


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## blkroseimmortal (Apr 10, 2021)

I have a question from those who bought the 50w version of the badlander. Do you regret not getting the 100W version? Does the 50W have enough low end grunt? Just recently ordered the 50W version but debating whether or not to return it and wait to find the 100W version. Thanks.


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## metaljohn (May 6, 2021)

Didn't want to start a new thread but does anyone know what value is used for the gain pots on these? I do like the tone on mine, but the gain just isn't enough even with a boost for me(maybe I've become too accustomed to my Mark IV haha)

I've seen a video where a guy changed the gain pot to a 1meg from the stock 250k on a Multiwatt Recto and it made a world of difference. I'm just wondering if this would solve my one grievance with the amp before I try selling it or trading for something else


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