# Good Death and Melodeath albums



## mindsmoothieoby (Aug 21, 2009)

The title says it all. I'm sick of hearing of Children of Bodom, I want something new. Just some suggestions ^_^.

I mean uh....

So bands like Carcass, old In Flames, stuff like that. I really like Carcass, but I don't know many other bands in that vein. I also really like Wintersun, and don't know many other bands in that vein. Hence this thread.

Yeah. Peace.


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## Triple7 (Aug 21, 2009)

Nightrage- Decent Into Chaos
The Haunted- All their records, the most melodeath IMO would be One Kill Wonder
The Black Dahlia Murder- self proclaimed Carcass and At The Gates fans
At The Gates- Terminal Spirit Disease and Slaughter Of The Soul
Scar Symmetry- Pitch Black Progress
Dark Tranquility- All their records

Their is a few off the top of my head if I can think of more I will repost!

The Wretched- new band on victory in the vein of The Black Dahlia Murder
Fear My Thoughts- Vulcanus and anything before that
The Absence- From Your Grave and Riders Of The Plague


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## mattofvengeance (Aug 21, 2009)

Obscura- Cosmogenesis
After the Burial- Rareform (not exactly what you're looking for, but the awesomeness of this record transcends genres)
All Shall Perish- Awaken the Dreamers (see Rareform)
Carnal Forge- Testify for my Victims
Control Denied- The Fragile Art of Existence (basically Death with Tim Aymar on vox)
The Faceless- Planetary Duality
Impaled Nazarene- Nihil (Alexi Laiho plays guitar on this record)
Zonaria- Infamy and the Breed


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 21, 2009)

I think if you are going to reccomend Impaled Nazarene, "Absence of war does not mean peace" and "All that you fear" are perhaps better suggestions, as they are imo their strongest albums by far.


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## Arteriorrhexis (Aug 21, 2009)

I second Dark Tranquillity.


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## fretninjadave (Aug 21, 2009)

old Soilwork, older Darkane, Ebony Tears, you might like Kalmah if you're into celtic style ,Into Eternity, the Haunted although their kinda thrashy,maybe Hammerfall,Im not saying you'll like them but I thought they were worth a mention.I hope this helps.


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 21, 2009)




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## groph (Aug 21, 2009)

Dismember - Like An Everflowing Stream


Equilibrium are a really unique folk metal sort of band, check them out if you don't already know them.

Also try out Mirror of Dead Faces, they kind of sound a lot like The Black Dahlia Murder, at least the album "Lamentation" does.

EDIT: The most recent Decrepit Birth album is also pretty melodic, doesn't sound much like their older stuff which I strongly prefer, but it is still melodic.

I could recommend death metal albums all day and the post will be dozens of pages long.

Maybe try The Crown


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## lnname (Aug 21, 2009)

i'm going to check out equilibrium- that sounds cool

on the folk metal front _early_ opeth- particularly the still life album is a must, its a concept album, and it works best as a whole but i'll youtube my favourite song off it


Gojira are not that melodic but they can never be mentioned enough- they've done a good variety of death metal genres, and have some really innovative riffs, here is the song that first got me into them, its literally unbelievable 

if i go on i'lll probably dilute the message of early opeth/gojira. Whilst there are a few other bands that really innovated the death metal genre, there are no other bands, not even death, morbid angel or suffocation that i would compare them with


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## poopyalligator (Aug 21, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> Nightrage- Decent Into Chaos
> The Haunted- All their records, the most melodeath IMO would be One Kill Wonder
> The Black Dahlia Murder- self proclaimed Carcass and At The Gates fans
> At The Gates- Terminal Spirit Disease and Slaughter Of The Soul
> ...



This list right here. Also try some mercenary


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## katierose (Aug 21, 2009)

Grab every single Death CD for starters.

Also:

Arsis 
Amon Amarth 
Bloodbath
God Dethroned
Hate Eternal 
Decapitated

And a personal favorite melodic death metal album of mine, Unmoored - Indefinite Soul Extension.

If you want to try some more brutal stuff.. just for kicks.. 

Vomit The Soul - Apostles of Inxepression
Devourment - Unleash The Carnivore


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## lnname (Aug 21, 2009)

actually after hearing equilibrium i' d like to clarify, that i used the word folk to describe Simon n Garfunkel/ Joni Mitchell rather than elf party music. Somehow when anyone talks about folk metal these days I imagine they mean music that combines metal with folk tonality rather than major scales with VST instruments.....(rant over)


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## yingmin (Aug 21, 2009)

Mors Principium Est - The Unborn
Amoral - Wound Creations, Decrowning
God Dethroned - The Grand Grimoire, Ravenous
Soilwork - The Chainheart Machine, Steelbath Suicide
Arch Enemy - Stigmata
Unmoored - Indefinite Soul Extension (featuring Christian Alvestam of Scar Symmetry on vocals)
Sinister - Cross the Styx, Diabolical Summoning


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## phantaz (Aug 21, 2009)

Man Must Die-No Tolerance for Imperfection. Fantastic album


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## TheMasterplan (Aug 21, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> Nightrage- Decent Into Chaos
> At The Gates- Slaughter Of The Soul
> Scar Symmetry- Pitch Black Progress
> *Dark Tranquility- All their records*



This.


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## EliNoPants (Aug 21, 2009)

katierose said:


> Grab every single Death CD for starters.



marry me




also, though it's more proggy and less death metal, Chuck Schuldiner's other band Control Denied was fucking amazing, might go as far as to say i like it more than Death


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## Harry (Aug 22, 2009)

EliNoPants said:


> marry me




Don't scare her away


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## PostOrganic (Aug 22, 2009)

Hypocrisy - Virus, Abducted, The Arrival, The Final Chapter
Dissection - Reinkaos (All their stuff is good but the last album is way more melodeath sounding than anything they've done)

Closest thing to Wintersun would be Ensiferum if you're not already aware. Their albums 'Ensiferum' and 'Iron' both had Jari on them... new album (From Afar) from what I've heard seems pretty similar to Wintersun's album in a lot of ways to.


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## Cadavuh (Aug 22, 2009)

Dude if your really into CoB and Wintersun you HAVE to listen to Kalmahs "The Black Waltz". Your jaw will drop


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## Metal Ken (Aug 22, 2009)

Not "Melodeath", but it is good death metal-- 

Akercocke's "Words that Go Unspoken...". 
Check it out. You'll thank me later. Its like what opeth would sound like with balls the size of tangerines.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 22, 2009)

katierose said:


> God Dethroned



If i had to pick ONE straight up melodic Death metal album out of ALL of them, it'd be Bloody Blasphemy. serpent king is so fucking amazing. "...Do you believe in jesus?"


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## EliNoPants (Aug 22, 2009)

Harry said:


> Don't scare her away



hahahaha...but, but, but...but Chuck Schuldiner is only beaten out by David Gilmour for my favorite guitarist spot


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## metal_head666 (Aug 22, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> At The Gates- Terminal Spirit Disease and Slaughter Of The Soul


 FAIL. First two albums are superior.


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## mattofvengeance (Aug 22, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> FAIL. First two albums are superior.



No, sir, you fail. Slaughter of the Soul is their best record.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

lnname said:


> actually after hearing equilibrium i' d like to clarify, that i used the word folk to describe Simon n Garfunkel/ Joni Mitchell rather than elf party music. Somehow when anyone talks about folk metal these days I imagine they mean music that combines metal with folk tonality rather than major scales with VST instruments.....(rant over)


 
Maybe nobody ever told you that those goofs didn't create "folk" music, and that folk music is actually older than America itself. You're wrong.

The band in question, however, is a really cool band.



mattofvengeance said:


> No, sir, you fail. Slaughter of the Soul is their best record.


 
This, plus some. The nonbeliever needs to leave.


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## lnname (Aug 22, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Maybe nobody ever told you that those goofs didn't create "folk" music, and that folk music is actually older than America itself. You're wrong.
> The band in question, however, is a really cool band.
> This, plus some. The nonbeliever needs to leave.



as someone who pays in folk bands at folk festivals in europe i think i might know a little about what i'm talking about 

The music that band are playing is just major scales on the instruments that would normally be played at a keighley (if you don't know this word google it, it will explain a lot). Folk music isn't older than America, America is a pair of continents (north and south), and its older than the human race. 

Folk, however is a word used to describe traditional music from a vast array of different cultures across history. I just find it demeaning that a band that has so little to do with these cultures is called folk.

Would it piss you off if someone suddenly started playing really un-metal riffs through distortion to back some rapping and called it "rap-metal"? it certainly made most metalheads pretty mad back in the times of limp bizkit

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy this particular band, or that you should try and find out more about folk music. I'm just saying that i hate the process of pigeon-holing of a vast musical history to little more than an arrangement of modern music.

If you want to argue this further, start a new thread, so we don't dissrupt this one. Honestly i probably wont post on it.

p.s. *hypocrisy* are certainly worth a listen, specifically their song *eraser*, really mellow, really death


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

Well, this continent hasn't been called or claimed as America forever, and the band in question DOES have scandinavian folk music as a very apparent influence - I've heard much of their material, and trust me, its there. That said, what they call folk is older than America. 

In any case, I hear you on the pigeon-holing - its stupid, but I also don't care. I don't take offense to labeling, as its just a result of small minded folk trying to categorize things to feel more secure about their selves and the world around them.

Good suggestion with Hypocrisy - what an awesome band. Their latest record happens to be their heaviest, and Peter is a genius, in my opinion.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Aug 22, 2009)

fretninjadave said:


> you might like Kalmah if you're into celtic style



Kalmah, Celtic?


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

Agreed, they're not Celtic, but they're metal as fuck.


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## metal_head666 (Aug 22, 2009)

mattofvengeance said:


> No, sir, you fail. Slaughter of the Soul is their best record.


I see you don't know metal. Slaughter of the Soul is their sell out album. It sound sthin and sterle. The songs are boring and emotionless. "The Red in the Sky..." is a musican masterpiece. "With Fear I Kiss..." is probably one of the greatest melodic death metal albums of all time. By melodic death metal, I mean melodic death metal, not Swedish metalcore called melodeath.


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## groph (Aug 22, 2009)

ITT: A female who likes brutal death metal???!



HOW DO I TALK TO IT?


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## fretninjadave (Aug 22, 2009)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> Kalmah, Celtic?


 
What woud u call it .


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> I see you don't know metal. Slaughter of the Soul is their sell out album. It sound sthin and sterle. The songs are boring and emotionless. "The Red in the Sky..." is a musican masterpiece. "With Fear I Kiss..." is probably one of the greatest melodic death metal albums of all time. By melodic death metal, I mean melodic death metal, not Swedish metalcore called melodeath.


 
Although I agree that their other albums kick ass, I can see that YOU don't realize that metalcore is a bland ripoff of the stuff that At The Gates came out with. Also, this ripoff occurred a long time after 'Slaughter of the Soul', and it was called metalcore.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 22, 2009)

best of the best death metal



lykathea Aflame - elvenefris (tech/prog deathgrind)
death - symbolic (death)
death - the sound of perseverance (death)
gorod - neurotripsicks (tech death)
kronos - colossal titan strife (brutal death)
atheist - unquestionable presence (tech/prog death)
dismember - the god that never was (death)
opeth - still life (prog death)
cynic - focus (tech/prog death)
augury - concealed (tech/prog death)
cryptopsy - none so vile (tech death)
decapitated - nihilism (tech death)
gorguts - obscura (tech death)
cephalic carnage - anomalies (technical grind)
quo vadis - defiant imagination (tech melodic death)
intestine baalism - banquet in the darkness (melodic death)
gorod - process of a new decline (tech/prog death)



fretninjadave said:


> What woud u call it .



kalmah are extreme power metal or melodic death 

also, CoB aren't death metal.


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## fretninjadave (Aug 22, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> best of the best death metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Whatever you wanna call it I still think its great.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 22, 2009)

Kalmah, At the Gates, Arsis, etc..


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## WarriorOfMetal (Aug 22, 2009)

fretninjadave said:


> What woud u call it .



I'd say it's fairly typical Finnish melodic death metal/"extreme power metal"


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## darbdavys (Aug 22, 2009)

lnname said:


> on the folk metal front _early_ opeth- particularly the still life album is a must, its a concept album, and it works best as a whole but i'll youtube my favourite song off it


excuse me, but what has Opeth got to do with folk metal?

also, didn't bother to go through the entire thread, but:
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Bloodbath - Nightmares Made Flesh and/or The Fathomless Mastery
Spawn Of Possession - Noctambulant (Tech Death, but nice)


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## katierose (Aug 22, 2009)

groph said:


> ITT: A female who likes brutal death metal???!
> 
> 
> 
> HOW DO I TALK TO IT?


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## Metal Ken (Aug 22, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> I see you don't know metal. Slaughter of the Soul is their sell out album. It sound sthin and sterle. The songs are boring and emotionless. "The Red in the Sky..." is a musican masterpiece. "With Fear I Kiss..." is probably one of the greatest melodic death metal albums of all time. By melodic death metal, I mean melodic death metal, not Swedish metalcore called melodeath.



Slaughter of the Soul was the only one i got into. All the other ones before that didn't do it for it me. Then again, i was never really into at the gates that much anyway.


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## Triple7 (Aug 22, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> I see you don't know metal. Slaughter of the Soul is their sell out album. It sound sthin and sterle. The songs are boring and emotionless. "The Red in the Sky..." is a musican masterpiece. "With Fear I Kiss..." is probably one of the greatest melodic death metal albums of all time. By melodic death metal, I mean melodic death metal, not Swedish metalcore called melodeath.



The fact is that this is all our opinions, none of which are fact. It is your opinion that they sold out with "Slaughter Of The Soul", just as it is my opinion that "Slaughter Of The Soul" and "Terminal Spirit Disease" are good "melodeath" albums. I personally like all of their albums for different reasons, but the reason I recommended those two were because of the examples that he listed. With that being said we should just agree on the fact that At The Gates are awesome.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

Agreed, 10 points for Brian.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 22, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> The fact is that this is all our opinions, none of which are fact. It is your opinion that they sold out with "Slaughter Of The Soul", just as it is my opinion that "Slaughter Of The Soul" and "Terminal Spirit Disease" are good "melodeath" albums. I personally like all of their albums for different reasons, but the reason I recommended those two were because of the examples that he listed. With that being said we should just agree on the fact that At The Gates are awesome.





I'll agree that "Slaughter of the Soul" Is the sell out album. Problem is, unlike metallica, who's sellout album sucked, At The Gates had a pretty solid disc for a sellout album.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2009)

Let's stay away from the words "sell out," please, as they have absolutely no place when considering death metal of any kind. Even all of these metalcore bands that the kiddies like, although following a trend, aren't sell outs because they're still dirt poor.


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## yingmin (Aug 22, 2009)

The idea of a band like At the Gates "selling out" is pretty hilarious. Even after the supposed sell-out, they continued to be pretty underground. If they'd continued recording and touring after Slaughter (also the only album of theirs I've been able to get into), they MIGHT have achieved some modicum of mainstream success, but even the most well-known Gothenburg bands aren't exactly rolling on 20s.


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## metal_head666 (Aug 23, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Although I agree that their other albums kick ass, I can see that YOU don't realize that metalcore is a bland ripoff of the stuff that At The Gates came out with. Also, this ripoff occurred a long time after 'Slaughter of the Soul', and it was called metalcore.


 It's still pretty bland music. No soul, no passion.


Metal Ken said:


> Slaughter of the Soul was the only one i got into. All the other ones before that didn't do it for it me. Then again, i was never really into at the gates that much anyway.


 Give them another listen. If you like Slaughter, then you'll either love the first two, or you just have horrible taste. 


yingmin said:


> The idea of a band like At the Gates &quot;selling out&quot; is pretty hilarious. Even after the supposed sell-out, they continued to be pretty underground. If they'd continued recording and touring after Slaughter (also the only album of theirs I've been able to get into), they MIGHT have achieved some modicum of mainstream success, but even the most well-known Gothenburg bands aren't exactly rolling on 20s.


Selling out doesn't always mean commercial success. It is a concept. ATG dumbed their sound down to appeal to more people. Just like what Soilwork (although never were really true) and In Flames have done.


Triple7 said:


> The fact is that this is all our opinions, none of which are fact. It is your opinion that they sold out with "Slaughter Of The Soul", just as it is my opinion that "Slaughter Of The Soul" and "Terminal Spirit Disease" are good "melodeath" albums. I personally like all of their albums for different reasons, but the reason I recommended those two were because of the examples that he listed. With that being said we should just agree on the fact that At The Gates are awesome.


 What is the point of this post? Seems like a feel good post to avoid conflict, or conflicting views that could poke holes in your image of reality. Protip: Stick by your opinions until someone shows you that you were wrong. Don't apologize.


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## yingmin (Aug 23, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> What is the point of this post?


 Lost on you, obviously.


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## Triple7 (Aug 23, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> It's still pretty bland music. No soul, no passion. Give them another listen. If you like Slaughter, then you'll either love the first two, or you just have horrible taste.  Selling out doesn't always mean commercial success. It is a concept. ATG dumbed their sound down to appeal to more people. Just like what Soilwork (although never were really true) and In Flames have done. What is the point of this post? Seems like a feel good post to avoid conflict, or conflicting views that could poke holes in your image of reality. Protip: Stick by your opinions until someone shows you that you were wrong. Don't apologize.



I wouldn't consider what I said an apology, and I'm not really clear on what conflict you are referring to, but the point of the post was pretty clear. Protip: Maybe if you didn't come off as such an elitist, you wouldn't get so much negative rep. Haha.. distort my image of Reality that's a good one.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 23, 2009)

some of my favourites:

Bloodbath - The Fathomless Mastery
Decapitated - Nihility
At The Gates - Slaughter of the Soul
Insomnium - Since The Day It All Came Down
Hour of Penance - The Vile Conception

check 'em out.


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 23, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> Just like what Soilwork (although never were really_ *true*_) and In Flames have done.





Get a load of this guy


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## Harry (Aug 23, 2009)

I feel like I'm one of the few people that thinks that fairly recent Soilwork is not bad stuff. I don't particularly mind it was more commercial sounding.


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## Tyrant (Aug 23, 2009)

Harry said:


> I feel like I'm one of the few people that thinks that fairly recent Soilwork is not bad stuff. I don't particularly mind it was more commercial sounding.



Well heres another one of those few people


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> some of my favourites:
> 
> Bloodbath - The Fathomless Mastery
> Decapitated - Nihility
> ...




really? above the weeping world is far better imo, one of the best melodic death albums ever

have you heard their new one?


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## mattofvengeance (Aug 23, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Get a load of this guy



Man, I was just about to comment on that, but ya beat me to it. That musical snob jargon makes me giggle every time I see it.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 23, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> really? above the weeping world is far better imo, one of the best melodic death albums ever
> 
> have you heard their new one?



yeah really. heard a few tracks off ATWW, wasn't fussed on them. I really rate STDIACD, probably my favourite melodeath album... not hard considering I don't like melodeath in general.

don't like the new one either.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> yeah really. heard a few tracks off ATWW, wasn't fussed on them. I really rate STDIACD, probably my favourite melodeath album... not hard considering I don't like melodeath in general.
> 
> don't like the new one either.



ahh wel i'm not a fan of the genre either, but i always loved ATTW. tbh i thought you were a big fan of the genre (from your username ) 

my favorite melodic death band is intestine baalism. its melodic death witha brutal death voacalist (which is probably why i prefer it)


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

Harry said:


> I feel like I'm one of the few people that thinks that fairly recent Soilwork is not bad stuff. I don't particularly mind it was more commercial sounding.


 
I think that every single one of their albums is genius - even the new one that lacks Peter Wichers. I only recently found out that Speed has some chops on guitar.



-TheWickerMan- said:


> really? above the weeping world is far better imo, one of the best melodic death albums ever
> 
> have you heard their new one?


 
All of Insomnium's stuff is fantastic - they're one of my favorite bands. 'Above the Weeping World' is just breathtakingly awesome. To anybody who wasn't too impressed by this album, give it a few more listens - it WILL grow on you.

The new one, 'Across the Dark' is growing on me in a strong way. So far I love it - the melodic structures are far more mature and dramatic than anything they've written thus far. This one needs some time too, though.

The dark, doomy atmospheres they blend with their very mature melodeath is so cool.



metal_head666 said:


> What is the point of this post? Seems like a feel good post to avoid conflict, or conflicting views that could poke holes in your image of reality. Protip: Stick by your opinions until someone shows you that you were wrong. Don't apologize.


 
Are you retarded? I don't mean to be harsh, but what is wrong with being even the slightest bit pacific? If you're suggesting that he shouldn't try to be friendly and pacific, you shouldn't be on this board at all.



Scar Symmetry said:


> some of my favourites:
> 
> Bloodbath - The Fathomless Mastery
> Decapitated - Nihility
> ...


 
I must say, man, you and I have very similar taste.


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## metal_head666 (Aug 23, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> I wouldn't consider what I said an apology, and I'm not really clear on what conflict you are referring to, but the point of the post was pretty clear. Protip: Maybe if you didn't come off as such an elitist, you wouldn't get so much negative rep. Haha.. distort my image of Reality that's a good one.


 I'm not an elitist to metal heads, but I'm an elietist to people who don't know anything about metal. Go on the Metal Archives and you will see. Negative rep? Why would I care? Most of this board likes Meshuggah and nu metal. Their opinion means nothing.


Adam Of Angels said:


> Are you retarded? I don't mean to be harsh, but what is wrong with being even the slightest bit pacific? If you're suggesting that he shouldn't try to be friendly and pacific, you shouldn't be on this board at all.


 I'm suggesting that if you have an opinion you stick to it, not half taking it back to avoid recourse. Just found the comment section, saw this little jem:


> people have different tastes, and slaughter of the sould is better


 Typically people who have this opinion are younger kids who just found metal, and think somehow that their taste trumps that of the general metal community. These are typically the kids that would rock out to the Jonas Brothers if someone told them that they were cool.


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## HammerAndSickle (Aug 23, 2009)

You've just got a very inflammatory tone, dude. There's no way to read your posts without this sarcastic, holier-than-thou (or is it _un_holier?) attitude to them that pisses people off. 

News flash! Metal is simply a collection of standards by which music is created. It is a genre. It is not your life's goal, the most important thing in the universe, what is "true", a standard by which values are judged, a podium to insult and decry from, or some elite country-club of those that are "true". It does not give you free reign to judge, impose, and insult. Who's the sellout here, the band that "commercializes" their music, or the fan who drives others away to further his image?

At it's core metal is about acceptance. Acceptance of different styles, tones, tonalities, and approaches to songwriting. Acceptance of the "underground", if you will; it does NOT stand for rejection of the mainstream and oppression of anyone. But you've got this attitude that "metal" is about being as tough and dogmatic as you can get. And, to be quite frank, I think I'm in the majority in saying that if you're going to act arrogant and elitist you should just get the fuck out.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> Typically people who have this opinion are younger kids who just found metal, and think somehow that their taste trumps that of the general metal community. These are typically the kids that would rock out to the Jonas Brothers if someone told them that they were cool.


 
Typically, metalheads who claim elitism on the basis of not understanding the difference between an opinion and a fact are a laughing stalk amongst people who don't share the same problem.

You have an opinion, not "the truth", when talking about what is good metal and what isn't. Its music, man - chill out. So what if some young kids just got into metal and think that At The Gates is awesome because they heard 'Slaughter of the Soul.' Who the fuck cares? If it matters to you, you need to either get help or pick up a hobby. I've been listening to metal for a long time and 'Slaughter of the Soul' is one of my favorite albums. I dare you to call me a "noob" or whatever else it is you'd use to belittle somebody with your false sense of superiority.

Although music means a lot to me, its a personal thing, not fucking politics.


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## groph (Aug 23, 2009)

katierose said:


>


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## mindsmoothieoby (Aug 23, 2009)

lnname said:


> i'm going to check out equilibrium- that sounds cool
> 
> on the folk metal front _early_ opeth- particularly the still life album is a must, its a concept album, and it works best as a whole but i'll youtube my favourite song off it
> 
> ...




Opeth is not folk metal I don't think, or melodeath. But they're pretty damn awesome! They're my favorite band I think.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

They have some folk-sounding stuff, they have melodies, and they have death metal... so I mean, in a vague way, you could call them those things, but it wouldn't be accurate. Calling Opeth anything but Opeth is wrong, in my opinion, haha


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## JeffFromMtl (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm surprised nobody mentioned these guys. I don't listen to melodic death too much anymore, but I'll always dig a good Scarve album, they do it better than most


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

^Yeah, they rule, and they have an awesome groove element to them - Dirk is a badass drummer. I know he's with Soilwork now, though, so I don't know if he's still with that band.


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## darbdavys (Aug 23, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> They have some folk-sounding stuff, they have melodies, and they have death metal... so I mean, in a vague way, you could call them those things, but it wouldn't be accurate. Calling Opeth anything but Opeth is wrong, in my opinion, haha


Opeth is progressive metal. Calling them like that isn't wrong


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> They have some folk-sounding stuff, they have melodies, and they have death metal... so I mean, in a vague way, you could call them those things, but it wouldn't be accurate. Calling Opeth anything but Opeth is wrong, in my opinion, haha



opeth are progressive death metal or extreme progressive metal. 

they fuse non metal genres with death metal, mainly blues and acoustic for them.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

No, they are Opeth.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

its not like opeth done anything incredibly new or special (and i'm a huge fan). theres was loads of prog metal before them. they just got more attention.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2009)

Name bands that sound like Opeth. They're incredibly unique in what they do and how they do it.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

first band that comes to mind are alley, they're extremely similar 




and theres a lot more. 
prog metal existed long before opeth, and prog death did too. i LOVE opeth but they aren't exactly pioneering a new genre


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## Metal Ken (Aug 23, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> No, they are Opeth.



I like to think of them as "Akercocke without massive balls"



metal_head666 said:


> A bunch of dumb ass shit



Now i remember why you got banned on some other sites. Here, why don't we just give you a couple of manowar discs, and you can go die for metal with Joey DeMaio.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> I like to think of them as "Akercocke without massive balls"



 thats definitely one way of looking at it 

akercoke are brilliant prog death as well


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## mindsmoothieoby (Aug 23, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> I like to think of them as "Akercocke without massive balls"
> 
> 
> 
> Now i remember why you got banned on some other sites. Here, why don't we just give you a couple of manowar discs, and you can go die for metal with Joey DeMaio.



Akercoke without massive balls but with a much bigger brain, better chops, and more versatility. Opeth is art, they could be fucking eunuchs and still be amazing.

If you're so perplexed and awed by massive balls, that's kind of weird. Sorry, but we get it. Akerwhatever is heavier and more ballzy. We know. But that doesn't mean their better, or even comparable. The last thing fans of great music should do is argue about bands, and I'd expect a lot more from a forum moderator. >:O

So please chill.



Adam Of Angels said:


> Name bands that sound like Opeth. They're incredibly unique in what they do and how they do it.



But yeah. I can't find too many other bands that have a sound like Opeth and weren't influenced by them first, and I really want to!

Thanks to everyone for this thread and all these great suggestions, I really appreciate it. How many of these artists play seven string guitar? I should be getting mine soon. I know a lot of melodeath is Drop C or D standard though. I'm also looking for power metal bands with cooler riffs than the normal powerchord and lead stuff. Like Symphony X; Mike Romeo has some killer riffs, a lot of them are really hard to play. :/

EDIT: Alley is actually decent. But not as good as Opeth ^_^.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 23, 2009)

mindsmoothieoby said:


> Akercoke without massive balls but with a much bigger brain, better chops, and more versatility. Opeth is art, they could be fucking eunuchs and still be amazing.
> 
> If you're so perplexed and awed by massive balls, that's kind of weird. Sorry, but we get it. Akerwhatever is heavier and more ballzy. We know. But that doesn't mean their better, or even comparable. The last thing fans of great music should do is argue about bands, and I'd expect a lot more from a forum moderator. >:O
> 
> So please chill.



first, all music that had thought put into it is is art, not just opeth
second, akercocke are smart and heavy, and they have soft moments too
third, weather their better or not is opinion
fourth, they're very compareable, both are part of the same sub sub genre.
fifth, saying Akerwhatever shows that you dont know them, making what you say irrelivant 




mindsmoothieoby said:


> I'm also looking for power metal bands with cooler riffs than the normal powerchord and lead stuff. Like Symphony X; Mike Romeo has some killer riffs, a lot of them are really hard to play. :/
> 
> EDIT: Alley is actually decent. But not as good as Opeth ^_^.



for the power metal try control denied, its chuck from deaths old side project



also try blind guardian





alley are great, i didn't say they were better, but they sound VERY similar


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## mindsmoothieoby (Aug 23, 2009)

Your post made me laugh out loud. It was like:

bashbashtakeapartpoststopbeinganidiot, and by the way, take all these sick metal suggestions! Lol.


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## yingmin (Aug 23, 2009)

Okay, recommend some good Akercocke. From the few songs I've heard, I don't even think they deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Opeth.


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## White Cluster (Aug 23, 2009)

*Devastation* - "Idolatry" Death/Thrash
*Morningside* - "The Wind,The Trees and The Shadows Of The Past" Good Melodeath
*Turisas* - "The Varangian Way" Symphonic Viking Metal
*Katatonia* - "Brave Murder Day" Gothic/Death
*Pestilence* - "Consuming Impulse" Just awesome


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## metal_head666 (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Typically, metalheads who claim elitism on the basis of not understanding the difference between an opinion and a fact are a laughing stalk amongst people who don't share the same problem. You have an opinion, not &quot;the truth&quot;, when talking about what is good metal and what isn't. Its music, man - chill out. So what if some young kids just got into metal and think that At The Gates is awesome because they heard 'Slaughter of the Soul.' Who the fuck cares? If it matters to you, you need to either get help or pick up a hobby. I've been listening to metal for a long time and 'Slaughter of the Soul' is one of my favorite albums. I dare you to call me a &quot;noob&quot; or whatever else it is you'd use to belittle somebody with your false sense of superiority. Although music means a lot to me, its a personal thing, not fucking politics.


 "Only strong personalities can endure history, the weak ones are extinguished by it." You're not true. Why bother complain than just come to terms that you are no better than those listening to Britney Spears or whatever you kids are into these days. If everything is just merely an opinion, than everything is metal. By making it everything, it is also nothing, for it lacks attributes. Your logic is flawed.


Metal Ken said:


> Now i remember why you got banned on some other sites. Here, why don't we just give you a couple of manowar discs, and you can go die for metal with Joey DeMaio.


Heh, banned from the metal forum that thinks nu metal and metalcore is metal, yet despises the real metal, and those that shed light on the truth. Very representative of our society as a whole. We gladly exclude such people.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> "Only strong personalities can endure history, the weak ones are extinguished by it." You're not true. Why bother complain than just come to terms that you are no better than those listening to Britney Spears or whatever you kids are into these days. If everything is just merely an opinion, than everything is metal. By making it everything, it is also nothing, for it lacks attributes. Your logic is flawed. Heh, banned from the metal forum that thinks nu metal and metalcore is metal, yet despises the real metal, and those that shed light on the truth. Very representative of our society as a whole. We gladly exclude such people.



fuck off dude, people like you are not welcome here.


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## willyman101 (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> "Only strong personalities can endure history, the weak ones are extinguished by it." You're not true. Why bother complain than just come to terms that you are no better than those listening to Britney Spears or whatever you kids are into these days. If everything is just merely an opinion, than everything is metal. By making it everything, it is also nothing, for it lacks attributes. Your logic is flawed. Heh, banned from the metal forum that thinks nu metal and metalcore is metal, yet despises the real metal, and those that shed light on the truth. Very representative of our society as a whole. We gladly exclude such people.



You're an absolute tit, can you not see you're acting like a bellend?


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## DDDorian (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666, I agree with everything you said - right up until that "shedding light on the truth" bullshit. What the hell is that? Do you honestly think you can denigrate (insert band here) in the service of (insert other band here) and claim some sort of objectivity? What a load of bullshit. I mean, you were arguing the merits of old At The Gates over slightly-less-old At The Gates, for fuck's sake, so you hardly have champagne tastes as it is. Having entry-level tastes is one thing, but someone who acts so patronising towards the "kids" here should have realised a long time ago that it's all terrible and defending your tastes so vehemently even as you enter the hallowed inner circle of the metal bourgeois is far, far worse.

Anyway, you've been warned about this shit before. Nap time.


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## Marv Attaxx (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> Heh, banned from the metal forum that thinks nu metal and metalcore is metal, yet despises the real metal, and those that shed light on the truth. Very representative of our society as a whole. We gladly exclude such people.



What the fuck is this?
Slightly off-topic but this made my day


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> from the metal forum that thinks nu metal and metalcore is metal.



to quote this again, I know he can't reply but I think it's an interesting point of discussion.

both nu-metal and metalcore typically down-tuned, heavy guitars, screamed vocals, double bass pedal etc... if they are not metal then what are they?

I hate 95% of nu-metal and metalcore bands equally, but I couldn't say with a straight face that they didn't have the characteristics of metal.


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## Tyrant (Aug 24, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> to quote this again, I know he can't reply but I think it's an interesting point of discussion.
> 
> both nu-metal and metalcore typically down-tuned, heavy guitars, screamed vocals, double bass pedal etc... if they are not metal then what are they?
> 
> I hate 95% of nu-metal and metalcore bands equally, but I couldn't say with a straight face that they didn't have the characteristics of metal.



I agree with you there, its still metal. Its just metal that has evolved from what some call "real metal".


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> "Only strong personalities can endure history, the weak ones are extinguished by it." You're not true. Why bother complain than just come to terms that you are no better than those listening to Britney Spears or whatever you kids are into these days. If everything is just merely an opinion, than everything is metal. By making it everything, it is also nothing, for it lacks attributes. Your logic is flawed.


 
You're a joke, man. Get out of here.


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## Triple7 (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Typically, metalheads who claim elitism on the basis of not understanding the difference between an opinion and a fact are a laughing stalk amongst people who don't share the same problem.
> 
> You have an opinion, not "the truth", when talking about what is good metal and what isn't. Its music, man - chill out. So what if some young kids just got into metal and think that At The Gates is awesome because they heard 'Slaughter of the Soul.' Who the fuck cares? If it matters to you, you need to either get help or pick up a hobby. I've been listening to metal for a long time and 'Slaughter of the Soul' is one of my favorite albums. I dare you to call me a "noob" or whatever else it is you'd use to belittle somebody with your false sense of superiority.
> 
> Although music means a lot to me, its a personal thing, not fucking politics.




 we are definitely on the same page brother.


I really don't understand why people like that would even bother to join a forum. clearly the only opinion they care about are their own. 

He clearly must not read too many of the threads on this forum saying that most of us like only like Meshuggah and Nu-Metal. I like both Meshuggah and Nu-Metal, as well as many other bands/sub-genres, and one of the reasons that I love this forum is because there are plenty of other people on it who listen to a wide variety of metal/music.


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## petereanima (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> You're a joke, man. Get out of here.



he is already banned.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 24, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> to quote this again, I know he can't reply but I think it's an interesting point of discussion.
> 
> both nu-metal and metalcore typically down-tuned, heavy guitars, screamed vocals, double bass pedal etc... if they are not metal then what are they?
> 
> I hate 95% of nu-metal and metalcore bands equally, but I couldn't say with a straight face that they didn't have the characteristics of metal.



this is where i disagree, i do think that the guy was being an ass but i don't think any nu "metal" can be considered metal. its typically hard rock down-tuned, song structures,styles, everything. just some harder vocals and slightly down-tuned guitars don't change what it is IMO

Metalcore is different, there are some metalcore bands that would call metal. but the vast majority are far more hardcore than they are metal, its hardcore with metal influences
band like between the buried and me and converge are definitely metal though cause they have all the metal characteristics but with some hardcore thrown in.

most of the typical metalcore bands only appear metal cause a lot rip off melodeath riffs 


that is just my 2 cents


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## distressed_romeo (Aug 24, 2009)

Honestly, a lot of this comes down to semantics. The same thing happenned in jazz when fusion appeared and the purists devoted a lot of their time to explaining why it wasn't proper jazz (including quite a few pompous, pretentious morons like Metalhead666 who acted like they had some sort of pseudo-intellectual justification for it). It's inevitable whenever there's cross-pollination between genres, as some bands will err slightly more to one side of the spectrum (continuing with the fusion parellel, John McLaughlin's a jazzer who's into rock, whereas Brett Garsed's a rock guitarist who likes his jazz).
It's the price we pay for having the freedom to blend genres; for all it can lead to some pretty horriffic results, at least it occasionally produces something genuinely decent.


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## mattofvengeance (Aug 24, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> Honestly, a lot of this comes down to semantics. The same thing happenned in jazz when fusion appeared and the purists devoted a lot of their time to explaining why it wasn't proper jazz (*including quite a few pompous, pretentious morons* like Metalhead666 who acted like they had some sort of pseudo-intellectual justification for it). It's inevitable whenever there's cross-pollination between genres, as some bands will err slightly more to one side of the spectrum (continuing with the fusion parellel, John McLaughlin's a jazzer who's into rock, whereas Brett Garsed's a rock guitarist who likes his jazz).
> It's the price we pay for having the freedom to blend genres; for all it can lead to some pretty horriffic results, at least it occasionally produces something genuinely decent.



Aren't those all jazz musicians?


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## Black Light (Aug 24, 2009)

DDDorian said:


> metal_head666, I agree with everything you said - right up until that &quot;shedding light on the truth&quot; bullshit. What the hell is that? Do you honestly think you can denigrate (insert band here) in the service of (insert other band here) and claim some sort of objectivity? What a load of bullshit. I mean, you were arguing the merits of old At The Gates over slightly-less-old At The Gates, for fuck's sake, so you hardly have champagne tastes as it is. Having entry-level tastes is one thing, but someone who acts so patronising towards the &quot;kids&quot; here should have realised a long time ago that it's all terrible and defending your tastes so vehemently even as you enter the hallowed inner circle of the metal bourgeois is far, far worse. Anyway, you've been warned about this shit before. Nap time.


 I see you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Old ATG is considered true, so whatever opinion you have of "champagne tastes" is irrelevant. Furthermore, early ATG is considered groundbreaking for inventing the Göteborg sound, which unfortunately later became an abortion. I'm afraid your part about it being all terrible does not make any sense. If one does not defend his own opinion, what is the sense in him having an opinion in the first place? TheWickerMan is correct on nu metal and metalcore.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

I think we've all been wrong - elitism is another form of retardation. Some people simply can't fathom that no description of any form of music is objective... not that I'm an advocate of such behavior, but this attitude is why people kill other people.


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## yingmin (Aug 24, 2009)

Black Light said:


> I see you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Old ATG is considered true, so whatever opinion you have of "champagne tastes" is irrelevant. Furthermore, early ATG is considered groundbreaking for inventing the Göteborg sound, which unfortunately later became an abortion. I'm afraid your part about it being all terrible does not make any sense. If one does not defend his own opinion, what is the sense in him having an opinion in the first place? TheWickerMan is correct on nu metal and metalcore.


Because you're not "defending your own opinions"; you're claiming them as fact. You won't be swayed by what any of us have to say because you disregard opinions different from your own as having no merit, so there's no incentive for us to argue with you. For the rest of us, metal is a form of music, and whatever significance it might have to our lives, it's basically just a form of entertainment. To you, it's an identity. Your conception of yourself revolves around what you define as "true" metal. You don't simply enjoy metal, it defines who you are. With that being the case, we could never say anything that could change your "opinions", because they aren't really "opinions" - they are the fundamental assumptions on which you base your life.

And on the off-chance that, despite all appearances, you aren't just an alternate account for metal_head666 (by the way, nice circa 1997 AOL screen name), then you're welcome to defend yourself, but I don't suspect I'd be wrong about you, either.


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## mindsmoothieoby (Aug 24, 2009)

I really like Brett Garsed. This thread also got pretty far off topic.


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## Triple7 (Aug 24, 2009)

yingmin said:


> And on the off-chance that, despite all appearances, you aren't just an alternate account for metal_head666 (by the way, nice circa 1997 AOL screen name), then you're welcome to defend yourself, but I don't suspect I'd be wrong about you, either.




I was thinking the same thing



mindsmoothieoby said:


> I really like Brett Garsed. This thread also got pretty far off topic.




Sorry about that dude, I hope you got some helpful suggestions


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## Black Light (Aug 24, 2009)

yingmin said:


> Because you're not &quot;defending your own opinions&quot;; you're claiming them as fact. You won't be swayed by what any of us have to say because you disregard opinions different from your own as having no merit, so there's no incentive for us to argue with you. For the rest of us, metal is a form of music, and whatever significance it might have to our lives, it's basically just a form of entertainment. To you, it's an identity. Your conception of yourself revolves around what you define as &quot;true&quot; metal. You don't simply enjoy metal, it defines who you are. With that being the case, we could never say anything that could change your &quot;opinions&quot;, because they aren't really &quot;opinions&quot; - they are the fundamental assumptions on which you base your life.


If you would spend time learning what true metal is, you would understand. As for one basing their life on metal, it seems ridiculous, although some do. However, the music one listens to for some time in essence becomes who they are. This is why there is a backlash from those "fagging" up metal".


yingmin said:


> And on the off-chance that, despite all appearances, you aren't just an alternate account for metal_head666 (by the way, nice circa 1997 AOL screen name), then you're welcome to defend yourself, but I don't suspect I'd be wrong about you, either.


He was a troll, hence the username. This site is a source of humor for the greater metal community, hence why I am here posting.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

Are you serious? True metal? Get the fuck out of here, that's nonsense. If you don't understand what MUSIC is, then you may say something as absurd as what you said regarding "true metal", but for those of us that appreciate MUSIC as well as the MUSICAL GENRE CALLED METAL, metal can be discussed subjectively and openly. Now do us all a favor and leave.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I think we've all been wrong - elitism is another form of retardation. Some people simply can't fathom that no description of any form of music is objective... not that I'm an advocate of such behavior, but this attitude is why people kill other people.



absolutely nothing wrong with metal elitism, i get called one all the time, i take it as a compliment. after all, elitists are the people that really know a lot about the genre they love. 
yes, some jackasses take it too far and mindlessly insult people that don't like what they like but a lot aren't like that.

i'm not an elitist though as i listen to far too many genres.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

And elitist is somebody who knows more than the general population about a given topic, but a person who preaches their opinion as fact is not an elitist. I know a lot about the genre as well, but me saying that In Flames is the best metal band in the world without question is not an example of me knowing something about the genre, its an opinion stated as a fact.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> And elitist is somebody who knows more than the general population about a given topic, but a person who preaches their opinion as fact is not an elitist. I know a lot about the genre as well, but me saying that In Flames is the best metal band in the world without question is not an example of me knowing something about the genre, its an opinion stated as a fact.



i agree

and thats why i dont mind being called an elitist, it just shows that i take a lot of interest in the music i love.


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## Black Light (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Are you serious? True metal? Get the fuck out of here, that's nonsense. If you don't understand what MUSIC is, then you may say something as absurd as what you said regarding &quot;true metal&quot;, but for those of us that appreciate MUSIC as well as the MUSICAL GENRE CALLED METAL, metal can be discussed subjectively and openly. Now do us all a favor and leave.


Yes, metal is a genre. Learn what the genre is. Nu metal and metalcore/deathcore are not a part of this. True metal is real metal, not what morons consider metal.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

Nu metal and metalcore/deathcore would not exist without a selection of metal bands that came before their existence.. this is to say that they are branches of metal. I don't know about nu metal, as its mostly just heavy alternative rock, but metalcore and deathcore are metal regardless of whether or not you consider them "worthy" of that "status". I don't like that stuff either, but its still metal. There's no definitive form of metal that can be called "true metal". I love Black Metal, but 99% of it is complete trash, in my opinion. The same can be said for every genre and sub-genre of music in my opinion.


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## ATThegates (Aug 24, 2009)

metal_head666 said:


> I see you don't know metal. Slaughter of the Soul is their sell out album. It sound sthin and sterle. The songs are boring and emotionless. "The Red in the Sky..." is a musican masterpiece. "With Fear I Kiss..." is probably one of the greatest melodic death metal albums of all time. By melodic death metal, I mean melodic death metal, not Swedish metalcore called melodeath.


 

FAIL. I cant be fucked to "debate" with you. Your WRONG

Psycroptic, Centaurus- A, The Faceless...


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## Black Light (Aug 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Nu metal and metalcore/deathcore would not exist without a selection of metal bands that came before their existence.. this is to say that they are branches of metal. I don't know about nu metal, as its mostly just heavy alternative rock, but metalcore and deathcore are metal regardless of whether or not you consider them &quot;worthy&quot; of that &quot;status&quot;. I don't like that stuff either, but its still metal. There's no definitive form of metal that can be called &quot;true metal&quot;. I love Black Metal, but 99% of it is complete trash, in my opinion. The same can be said for every genre and sub-genre of music in my opinion.


 While I agree most music in any genre is garbage (newer metal in particular), you completely failed on the metal subject. Just become something is influenced by a genre, does not make it that genre. Rock and Roll for example was a mix of country and blues. Is it blues? No. Is it country? No.


ATThegates said:


> FAIL. I cant be fucked to &quot;debate&quot; with you. Your WRONG


 "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!"


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## DDDorian (Aug 24, 2009)

Black Light said:


> I see you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Old ATG is considered true, so whatever opinion you have of "champagne tastes" is irrelevant. Furthermore, early ATG is considered groundbreaking for inventing the Göteborg sound, which unfortunately later became an abortion. I'm afraid your part about it being all terrible does not make any sense. If one does not defend his own opinion, what is the sense in him having an opinion in the first place? TheWickerMan is correct on nu metal and metalcore.



Considered true by who? If you wanna go by popular consensus then _Slaughter Of The Soul_ wins by a mile, and anyone else that's trying to argue the merits of earlier At The Gates over older At The Gates like it makes any goddamn difference is a complete moron and not at all true to begin with. The differences are minimal and if you were nearly as true as you think you are you wouldn't have even made the point. You might as well be arguing the merits of _Kill 'Em All_ over _Master Of Puppets_ or Coke over fucking Pepsi - maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but if you wanna go on about what is and isn't true then you might wanna at least namecheck a band with some actual pedigree. Goodbye.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2009)

Black Light said:


> While I agree most music in any genre is garbage (newer metal in particular), you completely failed on the metal subject. Just become something is influenced by a genre, does not make it that genre. Rock and Roll for example was a mix of country and blues. Is it blues? No. Is it country? No. "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!"


 
Your example is correct, but your comments about my example are not - in this case, metalcore and deathcore are indeed metal. They fall under no other category.

Alright... fuck this, I'm done with this argument - its going nowhere, and its worthless to begin with. I'll stop before becoming a hypocrite.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 24, 2009)

This thread turned from a decent recommendation thread to a fucking hilarious Manotroll thread


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## EliNoPants (Aug 24, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Manotroll



we should have a word of the month just like we do GOTM

i nominate Manotroll obviously


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## petereanima (Aug 25, 2009)

DDDorian said:


> Goodbye.



can we then permaban him? not because of his behaviour, but i think i'm not the only one who will not tolerate any Nazi-assholes here.

google "black sun" or "wewelsburg sun wheel":



>


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 25, 2009)

yingmin said:


> And on the off-chance that, despite all appearances, you aren't just an alternate account for metal_head666 (by the way, nice circa 1997 AOL screen name), then you're welcome to defend yourself, but I don't suspect I'd be wrong about you, either.



I know right? did he think we were stupid or what?



-TheWickerMan- said:


> absolutely nothing wrong with metal elitism, i get called one all the time, i take it as a compliment. after all, elitists are the people that really know a lot about the genre they love.
> yes, some jackasses take it too far and mindlessly insult people that don't like what they like but a lot aren't like that.
> 
> i'm not an elitist though as i listen to far too many genres.



I agree and I disagree. I know a lot about music and a lot about metal. sometimes I get frustrated that I can't talk to people about music on a level that I want to, but that's my own fault for researching it so much in the first place. knowing a lot about something is fine, but when you externalise it and make it other people's problem (which is ok when you're dealing with idiots with disregard for other people's opinions) then it becomes selfish and you deserve any flak you get for it.



DDDorian said:


> Considered true by who? If you wanna go by popular consensus then _Slaughter Of The Soul_ wins by a mile, and anyone else that's trying to argue the merits of earlier At The Gates over older At The Gates like it makes any goddamn difference is a complete moron and not at all true to begin with. The differences are minimal and if you were nearly as true as you think you are you wouldn't have even made the point. You might as well be arguing the merits of _Kill 'Em All_ over _Master Of Puppets_ or Coke over fucking Pepsi - maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but if you wanna go on about what is and isn't true then you might wanna at least namecheck a band with some actual pedigree. Goodbye.



owned!


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 25, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Your example is correct, but your comments about my example are not - in this case, metalcore and deathcore are indeed metal. They fall under no other category.



they fall under hardcore, and since most of them have far more characteristics of their music in common with hardcore bands i would call them hardcore subgenres not metal subgenres



Scar Symmetry said:


> I agree and I disagree. I know a lot about music and a lot about metal. sometimes I get frustrated that I can't talk to people about music on a level that I want to, but that's my own fault for researching it so much in the first place. knowing a lot about something is fine, but when you externalise it and make it other people's problem (which is ok when you're dealing with idiots with disregard for other people's opinions) then it becomes selfish and you deserve any flak you get for it.



i get what you're saying but not everyone who get deep in a genre becomes an asshole and disregards everyones opinions. they most likely already were assholes


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 25, 2009)

I think you misread my post there chap, give it a glance over again


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 25, 2009)

For super badass rugged death metal:

Kataklysm - 'Sorcery & the Mystical Gate of Reincarnation' 

Sylvain Houde faded into obscurity but this album is proof of his powerful and primal vocal abilities.

Cryptopsy - 'Blasphemy Made Flesh'

Lord Worm in the nineties. 'Nuff said.

Epicly heavy fucking slammers:

Morbid Angel - 'Gateways To Annihilation'

Song after song, you've got Erik Rutan and Trey Azagthoth delivering 7 string storytelling with Steve Tucker as the badass-fuckin'-narrator.

Hate Eternal - 'Conquering The Throne'

Jared Anderson on Vocals, Erik Rutan on guitars and Derek Roddy on drums? Hell fucking yes.

Do it. buy it.



DDDorian said:


> Considered true by who? If you wanna go by popular consensus then _Slaughter Of The Soul_ wins by a mile, and anyone else that's trying to argue the merits of earlier At The Gates over older At The Gates like it makes any goddamn difference is a complete moron and not at all true to begin with. The differences are minimal and if you were nearly as true as you think you are you wouldn't have even made the point. You might as well be arguing the merits of _Kill 'Em All_ over _Master Of Puppets_ or Coke over fucking Pepsi - maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but if you wanna go on about what is and isn't true then you might wanna at least namecheck a band with some actual pedigree. Goodbye.



Slaughter Of The Soul for the mother fucking win.


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## petereanima (Aug 25, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> they fall under hardcore, and since most of them have far more characteristics of their music in common with hardcore bands i would call them hardcore subgenres not metal subgenres



i have to respectfully disagree here. against the common view on things (as dictated by Kerrang and their likes) - these genres have NOTHING in common with hardcore. many of them may dress like nowadays hardcore-scenesters, but we dont file the music by the dresscode of their players, do we?

the music, and lets face it, is mostly pure death metal, paired with breakdowns - or when talking about metalcore: a mixture of swedish death metal paired with thrash metal and breakdowns.

and "breakdowns" are not a characteristica of hardcore.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 25, 2009)

petereanima said:


> i have to respectfully disagree here. against the common view on things (as dictated by Kerrang and their likes) - these genres have NOTHING in common with hardcore. many of them may dress like nowadays hardcore-scenesters, but we dont file the music by the dresscode of their players, do we?
> 
> the music, and lets face it, is mostly pure death metal, paired with breakdowns - or when talking about metalcore: a mixture of swedish death metal paired with thrash metal and breakdowns.
> 
> and "breakdowns" are not a characteristica of hardcore.




typical hardcore screams. check
layered vocals. check
endless amounts of breakdowns. check
slow chuggah riffs. check
bass always following guitar. check
clean singing interludes. check

sorry but the only thing remotely death metal about deathcore is the drumms,a nd even then its weak

metalcore has the breakdowns and all the other characteristics, they just rip off loads of melodeath riffs


death metal:


death metal:


death metal:


NOT death metal



sorry but you need to listen to more death metal


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## petereanima (Aug 25, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> typical hardcore screams. check
> layered vocals. check
> endless amounts of breakdowns. check
> slow chuggah riffs. check
> ...



i dont know to which kind of "hardcore" you refer - but nothing of this list is characteristic for hardcore.

let me show you some different styles:

hardcore:


hardcore:


hardcore:


hardcore:


hardcore:


hardcore:




NOT hardcore: (and also not death metal, i agree)







> sorry but you need to listen to more death metal


i highly doubt it is possible to listen to MORE death metal than i already do. 


i would recommend you to do a research about "hardcore".


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 25, 2009)

petereanima said:


> can we then permaban him? not because of his behaviour, but i think i'm not the only one who will not tolerate any Nazi-assholes here.
> 
> google "black sun" or "wewelsburg sun wheel":



I set my location as "Black Sun Dimension" in reference to the fact that I am currently playing through Wolfenstein on the 360, a focking mint game 

I reccomend everyone with a 360 play this game, and then listen to "Slaughter of the Soul" afterwards.

Gorod's new album is also some awesome melodeath, leaning closer to death then melo though.


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## HamBungler (Aug 25, 2009)

petereanima said:


> i dont know to which kind of "hardcore" you refer - but nothing of this list is characteristic for hardcore.
> 
> let me show you some different styles:
> 
> ...




^ This


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 25, 2009)

^ That, again.

Also, going back to the Opeth comments - yes there has been a lot of progressive/prog metal/prog death, but nobody really SOUNDS like Opeth. If you hear an Opeth song, you know precisely who it is. What you're saying is like saying that Steve Vai doesn't sound unique because there's been many insane shredders.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 25, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> ^ That, again.
> 
> Also, going back to the Opeth comments - yes there has been a lot of progressive/prog metal/prog death, but nobody really SOUNDS like Opeth. If you hear an Opeth song, you know precisely who it is. What you're saying is like saying that Steve Vai doesn't sound unique because there's been many insane shredders.



alley sound like opeth, and theres lots of opeth clones

and vai isn't that unique tbh. i'm a big fan but none of his stuff is that different 



Esp Griffyn said:


> Gorod's new album is also some awesome melodeath, leaning closer to death then melo though.



did you just call gorod melodic death? WTF

they're technical death metal, theres not a bit of melodic death in them, some melodic riffs in a few songs =/= melodeath



petereanima said:


> i dont know to which kind of "hardcore" you refer - but nothing of this list is characteristic for hardcore.
> 
> let me show you some different styles:
> 
> ...




a lot of mainstream and modern hardcore bands share those characteristics, attack attack and harebreed for example. 
and i dont want to research any more into the genre, its piss poor imo (besides some post-hardcore like refused)

regardless BMTH aren't metal and certainly not death metal


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 25, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> alley sound like opeth, and theres lots of opeth clones
> 
> and vai isn't that unique tbh. i'm a big fan but none of his stuff is that different



This would mean that Opeth is quite original and that people copy them.

...and as for the bit about Vai, I think that your ears must not work correctly... no offense, man, but Vai has a crazy unique style. Sure, he's influenced lots of plays over the years at this point, but he has an pretty unmistakable sound.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 25, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> This would mean that Opeth is quite original and that people copy them.
> 
> ...and as for the bit about Vai, I think that your ears must not work correctly... no offense, man, but Vai has a crazy unique style. Sure, he's influenced lots of plays over the years at this point, but he has an pretty unmistakable sound.



opeth are original, but not extremely original and not ground breaking as most people that haven't heard any other prog death would like to think. and nothing they did was exactly new either. blues and acoustic had been implemented to death metal before them just not as well, and keys have been used in death for a long time. 

i haven't heard much vai, 2 albums, so this opinion isn't cemented but he's not extremely different to others


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## yingmin (Aug 25, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> a lot of mainstream and modern hardcore bands share those characteristics, attack attack and harebreed for example.


 Using Attack Attack as an example of hardcore is like using Slipknot as an example of technical death metal.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 25, 2009)

My point is, though, that Opeth SOUND original. The elements they use are by no means original, and even the most creative artist would have a hard time using never before used elements in music. Mikael Akerfelt just has a certain style when he writes and he makes it sound very unique when its all put together. 

I'm more so referring to Vai's phrasing than his compositional skills - he writes some strange stuff, but his chops are what make him so out there... sometimes its difficult to listen to him for more than a few minutes because of this, actually.


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## -TheWickerMan- (Aug 25, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> My point is, though, that Opeth SOUND original. The elements they use are by no means original, and even the most creative artist would have a hard time using never before used elements in music. Mikael Akerfelt just has a certain style when he writes and he makes it sound very unique when its all put together.



ok i would agree with that, opeth are original, i just gett annoyed when people say they're one of the most original bands in metal, they're the most famous band that are original 

btw i do LOVE opeth, easily in my top 10 bands, i'm not trying to say they're bad in any way just in case you're saying that.



Adam Of Angels said:


> I'm more so referring to Vai's phrasing than his compositional skills - he writes some strange stuff, but his chops are what make him so out there... sometimes its difficult to listen to him for more than a few minutes because of this, actually.



ahh i see, well i'd agree there too


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 25, 2009)

See, I figured we were on the same page. You just seem tired of undereducated, self-proclaimed metal heads. I can tolerate that


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## Google Protip (Aug 26, 2009)

petereanima said:


> can we then permaban him? not because of his behaviour, but i think i'm not the only one who will not tolerate any Nazi-assholes here.
> 
> google &quot;black sun&quot; or &quot;wewelsburg sun wheel&quot;:


 PROTIP: The Wewelsburg sun was around before Nazism. Also, I believe if Fascist symbols are to be banned, communist ones should too. Both sand for repressive governments, both hate Jews, etc. Fascists at least have culture. Also:


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## yingmin (Aug 26, 2009)

Google Protip said:


> PROTIP: The Wewelsburg sun was around before Nazism. Also, I believe if Fascist symbols are to be banned, communist ones should too. Both sand for repressive governments, both hate Jews, etc. Fascists at least have culture. Also:



PROTIP: putting "protip" in your post not only doesn't make you look smarter, it actually makes you look like a pretentious, condescending wafflecunt. 

Also, swastikas predated Nazism by several thousand years, but that doesn't mean that someone who uses one should not be viewed with some suspicion.


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## petereanima (Aug 26, 2009)

Google Protip said:


> PROTIP: The Wewelsburg sun was around before Nazism. Also, I believe if Fascist symbols are to be banned, communist ones should too. Both sand for repressive governments, both hate Jews, etc. Fascists at least have culture. Also:



i know youre banned now, but i know you still read that, therefor: 

PROTIP: the pic in your avatar was the BLACK SUN which was BASED on the Wewlsburg Sunwheel, and the Black Sun was designed by Nazis (with the sunwheel beeing kinda of a "model" for it) and first and only used as a Nazi symbol, EVER.

but i'm sure you know that, so fuck off fellow wannabe nazi - because in the real third reich, lowlifes as you would be the first to go. 



-TheWickerMan- said:


> a lot of mainstream and modern hardcore bands share those characteristics, attack attack and harebreed for example.
> and i dont want to research any more into the genre, its piss poor imo (besides some post-hardcore like refused)



attack attack is not a hardcore band, hatebreed is already a hybrid of metal and hardcore. and thats what i meant - the common metalcore band refers to "hatebreed" and their likes as the hardcore-reference, but the only thing they have in common is the breakdown, which is one of the METAL-aspects of hatebreed...and they pair that with melodic death metal (dont matter if "poorly" written/copied/played - if a band is good or not does not affect the genre). so "metal + death metal = hardcore"? does not compute. fact is: 99,99% of metalcore (and deathcore) bands have nothing, absolutely NOTHING in common with hardcore. these ARE subgenres of metal, if you (or I) like that or not.

and well, you dont have to research into hardcore, but then - and i dont want to sound like a dick - dont talk like you know it all.



> regardless BMTH aren't metal and certainly not death metal



BMTH is propably one of the worst examples possible, you know that. is it absolute scene-shit? yes it is, no doubt. but if you like it or not, their music is based on metal, and partly based on death metal. me, being a death metal fan for over 15 years now, absolutely HATE that, but that doesnt change anything.


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## arktan (Aug 26, 2009)

petereanima said:


> i know youre banned now, but i know you still read that, therefor:
> 
> PROTIP: the pic in your avatar was the BLACK SUN which was BASED on the Wewlsburg Sunwheel, and the Black Sun was designed by Nazis (with the sunwheel beeing kinda of a "model" for it) and first and only used as a Nazi symbol, EVER.
> 
> but i'm sure you know that, so fuck off fellow wannabe nazi - because in the real third reich, lowlifes as you would be the first to go.




He even thought that you're a communist because of your avatar!!! 
M-M-MMMM-MMMMMMM-MEEEEEGAAAAAFAIIIIIILLL! 
Stupid Nazi-pricks. Brave behind 7 proxies but pissing in the pants when confronted on the street. 

But back to topic
I would also like to recommend Anata 


They are somehow in between tech-death and melodeath from my point ov view


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 26, 2009)

arktan said:


>




 (to both you and Anata )

one of the best tech death albums ever IMO, blows Epitaph out of the water.


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## petereanima (Aug 26, 2009)

kabbalistic said:


> An Occult symbol, that happened to gain the interest of Nazis. The Nazis invented the jet engine, assault rifle, modern rocket, and a whole host of other things. So I take it we shouldn't use those either? Now, what did the commies ever produce? Nothing. Everything they ever invented was stolen from either Germany or the USA. I do not endorse the Nazis. My point (which went well over your head it seems) is that they are both the same, and it is an obvious hypocrisy for a communist to call out fascism. Protip: A bit of studying or paying attention in class and you would learn that the Nazis killed communists when they first conquered a city/village.



again a new account?

dude, you seriously must be the dumbest piece of shit i've ever met. i mean, i met a big bunch of total retarted right wings in my life, but you sir, are the cherry on the faltulencia-icecream-cup.

if you just are too dumb to understand that the black sun is NOT an "occult" symbol, but just a Nazi symbol without any other background, than just admit it. and even symbols as the swastika, or the Odal-rune, etc. which really HAD a totally different meaning before: use it on your own risk, and dont wonder that you get offended for it. how dumb must one be? "ooooh, i'm such a poor boy, nobody likes me bcause i have a swastika tattooed on my forehead and i hate jwes, boohooo".

your supercool "point" about communism didnt not went over my head - it just does not make sense, as i'm not a ocmmunist nor have i anything to do with communism. i just look like fidel castro, that is all. 

but please, keep on educating me about Nazis - this topic is way to unknown in my country, thanks!


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 26, 2009)

-TheWickerMan- said:


> alley sound like opeth, and theres lots of opeth clones
> 
> and vai isn't that unique tbh. i'm a big fan but none of his stuff is that different
> 
> ...



metal_head666 strikes again!


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## petereanima (Aug 26, 2009)

representing yourself with the black sun can only be seen as a representation of your mentality, therefor - if you dont sympathize with the nazi-mentality - the fail is on your side, because why would someone choose this as his avatar if not because this person thinks he is "oh so superclever because---tihihihi...noone will notice that it is only a 12- wheeled-swastika hihi".

and why shouldnt i attack you personal? i cant tolerate nazi-scum and will clearly show "NOT WELCOME".

and if you havent noticed yet: i'm not a native speaker of the english language, so please excuse my typos or grammatically unperfect sentences. if you want we can discuss further in _my_ mother-language- german. good old german, as you all-time-history-allstars used to speak. interested?


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## petereanima (Aug 26, 2009)

so please tell me what exactly is communism-related at my avatar. its a picture of me.

by the way: Austria =|= Germany.


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 26, 2009)

kabbalistic said:


> It looks like Fidel Castro. The styling is communist. If you speak German, and live in Germanic-Austria, you're German.



Jesus christ, just stop posting you facist moron!


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## petereanima (Aug 26, 2009)

kabbalistic said:


> It looks like Fidel Castro. The styling is communist. If you speak German, and live in Germanic-Austria, you're German.




there is no such thing as "Germanic-Austria". There are 2 countries, pretty close together i admit, one is Austria, the other one is Germany. I was born in Austria, therefor I am Austrian. Like Apfelstrudel. Like Wiener Schnitzel. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like Adolf Hitler.

Not like Kangaroos. Thats Australia.

i guess you meant the "Ostmark", but that does not exist anymore. for almost 65 years now. 

So because i have a beard and like cigars i am a communist? Interesting. totally retarded, but interesting.


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 26, 2009)

Just forget it, I live in England, bordering Wales and Scotland, so that must make me Englishwelshscottish right?


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 26, 2009)

kabbalistic said:


> Ah personal attacks at the start. You have no argument so you resort to name calling, how childish of you. When you grow up, and take a few history classes in high school, you will understand the error of your ways. When did I ever say anything about being a nazi? You fabricated that. Also: communists hate Jews too. Go read up on USSR history from 1947-1956. Also, please sign up for some typing classes.


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## Triple7 (Aug 26, 2009)

I also have a beard and like cigars, I must be a communist as well



Also for some good melodic death metal, can't believe I forgot to add Through The Eyes Of The Dead's "Bloodlust".


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## DDDorian (Aug 26, 2009)

> My point (which went well over your head it seems) is that they are both the same, and it is an obvious hypocrisy for a communist to call out fascism.



Kinda like a fan of old At The Gates calling out a fan of slightly-less-old At The Gates, right?


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## groph (Aug 26, 2009)

Nah, it's okay guys, we can still use jet engines. The Nazi's didn't invent those. Also, modern rockets were invented by Robert Goddard who was American.


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## arktan (Aug 26, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> (to both you and Anata )
> 
> one of the best tech death albums ever IMO, blows Epitaph out of the water.



Thank you sir.
In another thread you mentioned them before i did but this time i was faster 

It really is one of the more creative techdeath albums and i listen to at least one song of it on a daily basis (yeah, i'm a freak). 

They should just start touring, dammit! They've only been to your country until now :jealously_mad: ->


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 26, 2009)

Oh yeah, I can't believe I didn't bring them up - ANATA! What an amazing band. Both 'Under a Stone With No Inscription' and 'The Conductor's Departure' just blow me away - I need to see this band live


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## Arteriorrhexis (Aug 26, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Oh yeah, I can't believe I didn't bring them up - ANATA! What an amazing band. Both 'Under a Stone With No Inscription' and 'The Conductor's Departure' just blow me away - I need to see this band live


This one isn't like that stuff but definitely one of their best songs


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## danenachtrieb (Aug 27, 2009)

not sure if this has been said but Neuraxis' "The Thin Line Between"


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes, that Anata song is great. I take it its off of an older album? I love that style.


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