# Daemoness Cimmerian 7 String Build!



## bulb (Aug 5, 2011)

So Dylan is currently working on a Cimmerian Build for me!
I fell in love with Nolly's 7 when i first played it, so i am not straying far from his specs so that this one will feel and sound similar to his.

So it has a Korina body and a Quilted Maple top, it will have a hipshot bridge and hipshot locking tuners, and instead of the Rebel Yell/VHII set, it will have a set of Aftermaths probably in Tyger finish (since i have been getting along quite well with that set as of late!)

Im a big fan of blue, so it will be a blue burst of sorts, starting out light in the center and gradually going darker and more intense towards the edges.

As far as the neck goes, since i plan to tour with this, Dylan and I both agreed that going for exotic woods would be out of the question, so its just regular hard rock maple for stability. 
For the fretboard, i believe we are doing ebony but it really depends on what will suit the inlay design better, which is a shattered light bulb design that Dylan will be designing for me!

At any rate, im super excited to get my hands on this! Here are pics!


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## orakle (Aug 5, 2011)

cant wait to see Dylan does super amazing work !!


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## technomancer (Aug 5, 2011)

That's going to be sweet


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## noizfx (Aug 5, 2011)

Can't wait to see the finished build!


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## wlfers (Aug 5, 2011)

The quilt looks great!


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## ShreddyESP (Aug 5, 2011)

Can't wait to see the finished product. This is the beginning of something EPIC!


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## Opion (Aug 5, 2011)

Fuck yeah! I cannot wait to see that inlay. Also Korina is a very interesting tonewood...it is no comparison of course, but every time I pick up one of those PRS SE Korina models it has such an open sound to it, every other one sounds dead. So this should be an interesting guitar no doubt!


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## Vinchester (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm waiting to see the inlay!


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## Watty (Aug 5, 2011)

Vinchester said:


> I'm waiting to see the inlay!


 
Seconded, with the inlay skills we've seen thus far from D, I can't wait to see what he comes up with.


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## sk3ks1s (Aug 5, 2011)

So your goal is to own one of everything?


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## Vicissitude27 (Aug 5, 2011)

Now we play the waiting game.


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## scherzo1928 (Aug 5, 2011)

I had been wondering when we would see some more daemoness builds. Prayers have been answered... and then some.


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## 3amsleep (Aug 5, 2011)

bulb said:


> As far as the neck goes, since i plan to tour with this, Dylan and I both agreed that going for exotic woods would be out of the question, so its just regular hard rock maple for stability.



Maybe it's kinda too late for it, but I have heard many people say that walnut necks are amazing for weather changes / stress / multiple string changes an so on. Apparently walnut necks won't warp/bend/shift no matter what shit you hit them with.

I think Doug Cartwright had a .090 on his 8 string that has a walnut neck; according to him, the neck haven't moved/bowed/shifted since he got the guitar, even after replacing the .070 to .090.


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## Xaios (Aug 5, 2011)

The Life Of Bulb, aka an orgy of faptastic boutique custom guitars.


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## bulb (Aug 5, 2011)

3amsleep said:


> Maybe it's kinda too late for it, but I have heard many people say that walnut necks are amazing for weather changes / stress / multiple string changes an so on. Apparently walnut necks won't warp/bend/shift no matter what shit you hit them with.
> 
> I think Doug Cartwright had a .090 on his 8 string that has a walnut neck; according to him, the neck haven't moved/bowed/shifted since he got the guitar, even after replacing the .070 to .090.


Honestly having never tried a guitar with a walnut neck, and not knowing exactly how it would affect the sound, i definitely wouldnt want to experiment with it on this guitar.
And the ONLY guitar i have ever owned/played/toured with that had a neck that TRULY never moved was a Vigier. I wish every guitar had the 10/90 system.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 5, 2011)

Raw shit?


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## 3amsleep (Aug 5, 2011)

bulb said:


> Honestly having never tried a guitar with a walnut neck, and not knowing exactly how it would affect the sound, i definitely wouldnt want to experiment with it on this guitar.
> And the ONLY guitar i have ever owned/played/toured with that had a neck that TRULY never moved was a Vigier. I wish every guitar had the 10/90 system.



yep, thats why I assumed it was too late LOL.

I have worked with carbon before (I'm an industrial designer) and it's a hell of a material. It's light, ultra strong and relatively easy to work with, but I'm not sure how and how much will it affect the sound/feel of a guitar. 

Also I'm a sucker for ebony fillets on my necks, I think it's a great way to make sure the neck wont bow/warp (if it's built correctly) while making the sound of any neck brighter at the cost of a little resonance.... now if only I could get my hand on some old Brazilian rosewood ...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 5, 2011)

3amsleep said:


> yep, thats why I assumed it was too late LOL.
> 
> I have worked with carbon before (I'm an industrial designer) and it's a hell of a material. It's light, ultra strong and relatively easy to work with, but I'm not sure how and how much will it affect the sound/feel of a guitar.
> 
> Also I'm a sucker for ebony fillets on my necks, I think it's a great way to make sure the neck wont bow/warp (if it's built correctly) while making the sound of any neck brighter at the cost of a little resonance.... now if only I could get my hand on some old Brazilian rosewood ...



IIRC Rob from KxK actually uses carbon rods in his necks for reinforcement and super awesomeness.


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## WishIwasfinnish (Aug 5, 2011)

Dude! I am getting a very, very similar guitar made by Dylan at the exact time right now, it will be quilted maple top with a mahogany body, and aftermaths, with a blueburst style finish. Except I am getting a Mjolnir (hammer of thor) inlay . I want pics of mine now!


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## simonXsludge (Aug 5, 2011)

i like the idea of the blue burst finish.


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## bulb (Aug 5, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> IIRC Rob from KxK actually uses carbon rods in his necks for reinforcement and super awesomeness.



i think a few companies do that, but vigier's system is different. there is absolutely no truss rod in the neck. The neck is set perfectly with the slightest concave bow, and it stays like that forever. Simply perfect!


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## Justin Bailey (Aug 5, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> IIRC Rob from KxK actually uses carbon rods in his necks for reinforcement and super awesomeness.



A lot of builders do. IIRC Carvin does as well.


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## elq (Aug 5, 2011)

bulb said:


> i think a few companies do that, but vigier's system is different. there is absolutely no truss rod in the neck. The neck is set perfectly with the slightest concave bow, and it stays like that forever. Simply perfect!



The Vigier neck system impressive -







That carbon fiber strip is a hell of a lot bigger than these



Justin Bailey said:


> A lot of builders do. IIRC Carvin does as well.



Carvin stopped doing that a few years ago. The folks who talk about guitar "mojo" didn't like the idea.


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## Nonservium (Aug 6, 2011)

Did I just see a British guy in a Cowboys jersey?


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## scherzo1928 (Aug 6, 2011)

Nonservium said:


> Did I just see a British guy in a Cowboys jersey?


 
Im pretty sure he had a raiders jersey on some other pic.


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## JamesM (Aug 6, 2011)

RAW SHIT


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## Djdnxgdj3983jrjd8udb3bcns (Aug 9, 2011)

Not satisfied with just the one Daemoness huh? :L That pink number with the birdseye maple neck was hawt. The inlay work on it was sweet also. 

I saw that for the first time at Soni UK and was thoroughly impressed. Shame that green Setius shat out on you though :L What was the matter with that in the end?


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## Skyblue (Aug 9, 2011)

b1gm3 said:


> Not satisfied with just the one Daemoness huh? :L That pink number with the birdseye maple neck was hawt. The inlay work on it was sweet also.
> 
> I saw that for the first time at Soni UK and was thoroughly impressed. Shame that green Setius shat out on you though :L What was the matter with that in the end?


I think you're confusing Bulb here with Nolly, who owns the pink (extremely hot) Daemoness  

Anyway, can't wait to see more! Dylan's work is absolutely amazing. 
Have you decided on an inlay yet? You can't order a Daemoness and have a blank fretboard, I think it violates some universe rules or something


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## daemon barbeque (Aug 9, 2011)

I am mostly interested in the Finish on this project. Dylan is definetly one of the best Luthiers around, and his Pink Finish on Nolly's guitar was awesome.


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## Djdnxgdj3983jrjd8udb3bcns (Aug 10, 2011)

I may have done just that :L "Pink 6" was listed on the setlist I got my grubby mitts on, hence that assumption.

In fairness, my mind was being blown by Periphery's live show, so keeping an eye on gear got awful difficult *champion ass kisser kisses ass* :L 
Seriously though, watching Periphery set up on stage was a showcase of things I want, all being just slightly out of reach. 

And on the subject of Daemoness guitars, I'm going to agree with pretty much everyone ever and say that I have spent almost too long drooling over pictures of Dylan's inlay work. That man is genuinely gifted, and deserves some serious recognition for his work.


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## JPMike (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks for the GASing.


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## leandroab (Aug 13, 2011)

The Armada said:


> RAW SHIT


RAW SHIT
RAW SHIT
RAW SHIT
RAW SHIT


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 15, 2011)

i had forgotten that you had ordered one of these, but it was only a matter of time 

this is gunna be good!


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## bulb (Aug 23, 2011)

Here are some updates!!

So its coming together!
The top is on and is looking amazing! Also i wanted white binding around the fretboard as well as luminlay dots, so Dylan suggested putting black blocks on the binding so the dots would stick out, and i have to say it came out awesome. We are also toying with the idea with putting them on the topside of the blocks cuz it could look cool!


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## ShreddyESP (Aug 23, 2011)

That looks fantastic! Can't wait to see it done.. I've got something similar in order. I love the inlay idea, it looks great!


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## Valennic (Aug 23, 2011)

Dayum! That's looking insanely awesome.

I don't think it'll be done in time for the Frak the Gods tour then eh? I'd love to see that beast on stage.


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## JaeSwift (Aug 23, 2011)

I wonder how Dylan joins those blocks of black binding with the white binding; they look so seamless.


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## bulb (Aug 23, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> I wonder how Dylan joins those blocks of black binding with the white binding; they look so seamless.



Compared to how intricate his inlay work is, im willing to bet that was a piece of cake for him haha


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## Xifter (Aug 23, 2011)

bulb said:


> Compared to how intricate his inlay work is, im willing to bet that was a piece of cake for him haha


This ^


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## Rook (Aug 23, 2011)

Am i seriously the first person to ask what finish was going on this?

Daemoness has been on the cards for me for ages, just can't face a year long wait yet!


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## Valennic (Aug 23, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Am i seriously the first person to ask what finish was going on this?
> 
> Daemoness has been on the cards for me for ages, just can't face a year long wait yet!



I believe he says some sort of blue in the OP.


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## orakle (Aug 24, 2011)

damn i just cant wait to see the final product


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## JaeSwift (Aug 24, 2011)

bulb said:


> Compared to how intricate his inlay work is, im willing to bet that was a piece of cake for him haha



No doubt, his inlay work is top of the line bar none IMO. It still intruiges me though, usually you see scarf jointed lines or something when binding is done like that but this just looks like it was made of one piece 

Misha, if I can suggest something for the finish with blue; go from a dark blue over to light blue, near the center have the stain almost sanded out. Would look sick with a gloss clearcoat!


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## White Cluster (Aug 24, 2011)

Here's a visual suggestion..


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## iamrichlol (Aug 30, 2011)

White Cluster said:


> Here's a visual suggestion..



jesus christ, what the fuck is that? I seriously must get that


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## elq (Aug 30, 2011)

That guitar was built by Ron Thorn, it's one of his SoCal S/S guitars.


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## bulb (Sep 16, 2011)

Here are some more progress pics! 












Dylan ABSOLUTELY NAILED the finish i had in mind. I mean just look at that, i wouldnt change a thing about it!!
Dylan says he is going to start working on the "Shattering Lightbulb" inlay now!
So excited to get my hands on this!


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## MFB (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh Gawd, my testicles are all a-fluttah at these new pics we have he-uh


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## technomancer (Sep 16, 2011)

Looking good


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## motomoto (Sep 16, 2011)

dat colour


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## Kamin (Sep 16, 2011)

Fuck me sideways that is glorious.


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## tank (Sep 16, 2011)

crazy top, btw awsome guitar!


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## orakle (Sep 17, 2011)

wow

wow

wow


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## TheBloodstained (Sep 17, 2011)

yo Misha, is your favorite color blue? 
You had that sweet denim blue one made (was it a Mayones?) and now this! 

Looking epic! ^^


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## Xaios (Sep 17, 2011)

Oh God, yes!


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## munizfire (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm totally jelly!


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## bulb (Oct 12, 2011)

The "Shattering Lightbulb" inlay is done! I gave Dylan complete artistic freedom, as we all know he is an artistic genius, so this is the first that i have seen of the design!
Absolutely insane!





















CANT WAIT FOR THIS GUITAR!!


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## 7slinger (Oct 12, 2011)

fuck me sideways

and killer inlay too


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## Valennic (Oct 12, 2011)

Misha I gotta know, when do you find time to play all of your fuckin customs man? 

You've gotta have at LEAST 12 by now, counting ones I'm sure we're not aware of. You should make a thread with all of your guitars in it, that'd be an interesting thread for sure.


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## orakle (Oct 12, 2011)

did I just actually see this

this is SO AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BlackMastodon (Oct 12, 2011)

Wow that looks amazing!


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 12, 2011)




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## WishIwasfinnish (Oct 12, 2011)

Holy SHIT, that looks great, I saw little of it before, but the shattered lightbulb looks so detailed


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 13, 2011)

Tough call, but I think this might be my favorite inlay from him.


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## jaretthale78 (Oct 13, 2011)

beautiful


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## wayward (Oct 13, 2011)

Love the inlay, amazing work by Dylan.

Mmmmmmm, who's triple stain red Cimmerian is in the background?....In love.


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## joaocunha (Oct 13, 2011)

Holy indian cow! Now that looks superb.

Me demands pictures of the inlaying proccess.


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 13, 2011)

I love Dyl's inlay work. He pretty much always manages to make something amazing and striking, with a real sense of depth and shape!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 13, 2011)

Fuck yes that's fantastic! I've always wondered though, how does having tons of inlay feel?


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 13, 2011)

i imagine it wouldn't feel any different from a blank fretboard, since you dont really touch the fretboard. (at least i dont, i try to aim for the strings)


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## Lewk (Oct 13, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> Fuck yes that's fantastic! I've always wondered though, how does having tons of inlay feel?



I don't notice it


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Oct 13, 2011)

Wow...that inlay is stunning...

I must say Mr. Bulb you do have damn fine taste in guitars...


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## guy in latvia (Oct 13, 2011)

that inlay slays! amazing work!


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## exordium (Oct 13, 2011)

Fuck.


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## Rommel (Oct 13, 2011)

Great work as always.


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## JPMike (Oct 13, 2011)

WHY WHY WHY!!!

I STILL GOT 8 MONTHS TO GO FOR MINE!!

This looks amazingly nice!!!!


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## kruneh (Oct 13, 2011)

Looks awesome!
(sorry for the lame bulb-smiley  )


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## JamesM (Oct 13, 2011)

This inlay rivals the shattered pocket watch and Nautilus inlays.


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## Xifter (Oct 13, 2011)

You followed Rule #1 of Daemoness guitar building..."Always trust in Dylan."

That looks epic Misha. You are getting me stirred up to see mine now! Hopefully, I get some pics this week.

Congrats!!


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## Atomshipped (Oct 13, 2011)

That looks so awesome man.


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## IkarusOnFire (Oct 14, 2011)

...guitar. You've had your hand on quite a few customs by now - by different builders, with different woods etc. I wonder, if you've any insight to offer on the "tone wood" debate - how do you feel the wood affects your tone? It might be difficult to form an truism about it, but when reading forum posts, I find usually two constants:

1) Wood doesn't matter. It's how the luthier makes them and the hardware that makes up the sound of an electric guitar.
2) Wood makes up the balanced (or unbalanced) sound of a guitar. As in: "need a bright guitar, go for what people will call _bright_ woods"

Misha, all those customs must have led to some opinion on this matter - hope you'll share it - maybe give us your idea of what woods make up a great guitar for your style of music and playing =)

Best Regards,

Marcus


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## Valennic (Oct 14, 2011)

IkarusOnFire said:


> ...guitar. You've had your hand on quite a few customs by now - by different builders, with different woods etc. I wonder, if you've any insight to offer on the "tone wood" debate - how do you feel the wood affects your tone? It might be difficult to form an truism about it, but when reading forum posts, I find usually two constants:
> 
> 1) Wood doesn't matter. It's how the luthier makes them and the hardware that makes up the sound of an electric guitar.
> 2) Wood makes up the balanced (or unbalanced) sound of a guitar. As in: "need a bright guitar, go for what people will call _bright_ woods"
> ...



Er...wood doesn't matter?  Scuse me?


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## AwakenNoMore (Oct 14, 2011)

LOVE this guitar build. That inlay is epic.


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## Xaios (Oct 14, 2011)

Valennic said:


> Er...wood doesn't matter?  Scuse me?



Indeed. I don't think this guy is reading the same forum as the rest of us, because I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that the choice of wood affects tone *a lot*. 

That inlay is absolutely freaking awesome, by the way. I didn't think anything could ever top the water droplet inlay on Roo's guitar, but this definitely equals it. Dylan is definitely the real deal.


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## s_k_mullins (Oct 14, 2011)

So much win in this guitar! Inlay and finish are fucking awesome!


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## JaeSwift (Oct 14, 2011)

Valennic said:


> Er...wood doesn't matter?  Scuse me?



You're misreading his post, he's putting it forth as a statement, he's not implying he agrees with it.

And yes, there are lots of people that believe wood doesn't matter. Huf was one of them.


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## narad (Oct 14, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> And yes, there are lots of people that believe wood doesn't matter. Huf was one of them.



But he's also over at TGP saying that it makes no sense to talk about the tonal properties of claro walnut because there are so many subspecies that get classified under that header. If he believed wood didn't matter, it wouldn't make sense to say that. (we're talking ........., right?)


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## espman (Oct 14, 2011)

narad said:


> But he's also over at TGP saying that it makes no sense to talk about the tonal properties of claro walnut because there are so many subspecies that get classified under that header. If he believed wood didn't matter, it wouldn't make sense to say that. (we're talking ........., right?)


We also know that Huf is pretty much insane right? Good guy, but a little crazy


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## TimmaethBoy (Oct 14, 2011)

Absolutely killer inlay work.


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## technomancer (Oct 14, 2011)

That is looking massively kick ass


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 14, 2011)

That argument about wood not mattering isn't so much that but that:

A good slice of X wood with sound better than a lower quality of X wood. 


I've never heard of anyone saying wood doesn't matter.


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## bulb (Oct 15, 2011)

i have played a lot of guitars, both custom and production models, and i have played a lot of different guitars
and here is my take on wood

for what IM personally into, lightweight and low density woods seem to do the trick for me.
believe it or not i think that basswood is one of the best tonewoods for a guitar, and i think its hilarious that people bash it.
yes its ugly, and yes you have to put a veneer on it because it sucks with paint, but damn if my basswood guitars dont absolutely own, especially when it comes to lower tunings.
when i get ash and mahogany on a guitar, i always specify lightweight/low density wood for that same reason
and i have thus far gotten the same good results.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 15, 2011)

The maho on your Decibal is light? Did you have it chambered?


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## Invader (Oct 15, 2011)

bulb said:


> believe it or not i think that basswood is one of the best tonewoods for a guitar, and i think its hilarious that people bash it.



Well, John Suhr agrees with you at least, so you're not alone.

Suhr Guitars Information on Wood - Expanding the Experience of Tone!



> Basswood Back / Quilt or Flame Maple Top  Okay, this may be the Holy Grail of tone. The Basswood response is extended by a 3/16" Maple top adding more clarity and grind to the fatness of the Basswood, this combination is our favorite!


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## scherzo1928 (Oct 15, 2011)

bulb said:


> for what IM personally into, lightweight and low density woods seem to do the trick for me.


 
Oh you would love sinker redwood. Freakishly light, and IMO very VERY good sounding.


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## 0 Xero 0 (Oct 16, 2011)

Did you come up with the idea for the shattered bulb inlay or did Dylan suggest it to you? Either way, Dylan is doing a smashing job with that git-fiddle!


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## Gitte (Oct 16, 2011)

them inlays.... holy christ this is not from his planet!


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## GSingleton (Oct 16, 2011)

....raw......shit.....


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## teleofseven (Oct 16, 2011)

Invader said:


> Well, John Suhr agrees with you at least, so you're not alone.



and doesn't the new EVH Wolfgang have a basswood body? 

so even eddie thinks it's good.


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## HaMMerHeD (Oct 16, 2011)

Invader said:


> Well, John Suhr agrees with you at least, so you're not alone.
> 
> Suhr Guitars Information on Wood - Expanding the Experience of Tone!



The Heretic's Guide to Alternative Lutherie Woods


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> The Heretic's Guide to Alternative Lutherie Woods



Just so we're clear, the guy who wrote this article was talking particularly of acoustic guitars, not solidbody electrics.


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## HaMMerHeD (Oct 17, 2011)

Xaios said:


> Just so we're clear, the guy who wrote this article was talking particularly of acoustic guitars, not solidbody electrics.



Yeah, but I think it applies doubly for electrics, since the amplified sound comes from electromagnetic interference imparted by the strings into the magnetic fields of the pickups. Wood isn't even a part of that equation, except perhaps fingerboard wood on a fretless instrument.

In an acoustic instrument, sound is produced by the cooperative vibration of strings and wood. If wood is going to affect the tone, an acoustic would bear that out much more profoundly. And since there is no empirical actual evidence of that happening with an acoustic, and certainly none with an electric, I think it is pretty clear. I've seen non-scientific experiments produce results that are consistent with what I believe, and that op-ed says. The only so-called evidence I've ever seen that tonewood is anything but a myth is anecdotal, from people who claim to have built zillions of guitars over several decades, and who claim to be able to hear what spectrum analyzers could not identify.


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## bulb (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> Yeah, but I think it applies doubly for electrics, since the amplified sound comes from electromagnetic interference imparted by the strings into the magnetic fields of the pickups. Wood isn't even a part of that equation, except perhaps fingerboard wood on a fretless instrument.



You are so wrong it hurts. The pickups are in the body which is vibrating as well. How much the body resonates and vibrates with the strings affects a lot.
As i said, i think wood densities affect the sound more than x or y wood. But out of experience and trying similar guitars with different body and neck woods, i have found that woods make a HUGE difference on an electric instrument. For example, i recorded clips rosewood necked BFR vs a regular BFR so i could a/b the difference, and there was a very clear audible difference in the timbre of the rosewood necked one, one that was very consistent with the 2 rosewood necked bfrs i ended up getting.
This isnt anecdotal evidence at all.


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## orakle (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> In an acoustic instrument, sound is produced by the cooperative vibration of strings and wood. If wood is going to affect the tone, an acoustic would bear that out much more profoundly. And since there is no empirical actual evidence of that happening with an acoustic, and certainly none with an electric, I think it is pretty clear.


 
Forum guy vs. Laws of Physics


WHO WINS ???????????????????


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## teleofseven (Oct 17, 2011)

orakle said:


> Forum guy vs. Laws of Physics
> 
> 
> WHO WINS ???????????????????



gotta be the pope...


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## HaMMerHeD (Oct 17, 2011)

bulb said:


> You are so wrong it hurts. The pickups are in the body which is vibrating as well. How much the body resonates and vibrates with the strings affects a lot.
> As i said, i think wood densities affect the sound more than x or y wood. But out of experience and trying similar guitars with different body and neck woods, i have found that woods make a HUGE difference on an electric instrument. For example, i recorded clips rosewood necked BFR vs a regular BFR so i could a/b the difference, and there was a very clear audible difference in the timbre of the rosewood necked one, one that was very consistent with the 2 rosewood necked bfrs i ended up getting.
> This isnt anecdotal evidence at all.



No, you are wrong. And what you are describing is definitely anecdotal evidence. Present those guitars for examination and the recordings, and you have non-anecdotal evidence. Until then, you are describing your experience, which is what anecdotal evidence is.

Yes, the pickups are mounted in the wood, but unless you have very poorly made pickups, they will not convert vibration from the wood into an electric current. The wood does not interact with the magnetic field of those pickups. The strings do. If you want to change tone, start with strings, then pickups and other electronics, then things that actually touch the strings (fingers, picks, bridge, nut, fretwire). Wood is the least important part of tone.

Tonewood is a myth, plain and simple.



orakle said:


> Forum guy vs. Laws of Physics
> 
> 
> WHO WINS ???????????????????



That's why I'm on the side of physics.


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## JamesM (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> No, you are wrong. And what you are describing is definitely anecdotal evidence. Present those guitars for examination and the recordings, and you have non-anecdotal evidence. Until then, you are describing your experience, which is what anecdotal evidence is.
> 
> Yes, the pickups are mounted in the wood, but unless you have very poorly made pickups, they will not convert vibration from the wood into an electric current. The wood does not interact with the magnetic field of those pickups. The strings do. If you want to change tone, start with strings, then pickups and other electronics, then things that actually touch the strings (fingers, picks, bridge, nut, fretwire). Wood is the least important part of tone.
> 
> ...



Just give it up dude. You're wrong, deal with it.

People with your viewpoint are like the "George Bush Bombed the World Trade Centers" enthusiasts of the music world. All flair and evocative verbiage but no support.


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## narad (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> No, you are wrong. And what you are describing is definitely anecdotal evidence. Present those guitars for examination and the recordings, and you have non-anecdotal evidence. Until then, you are describing your experience, which is what anecdotal evidence is.



On the contrary, the true criticisms of anecdotal evidence stem from small sample sizes, not from having objective measures. What you're suggesting would still be just as meaningless since it essentially has a sample size of one and there would be no confidence that the results would generalize. You could have pointed out that the necks should have been swapped to remove potentially confounding variables of body wood and nuances in the pickups windings and electronics. If you're going to criticize, criticize properly.


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## Lilarcor (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> Yes, the pickups are mounted in the wood, but unless you have very poorly made pickups, they will not convert vibration from the wood into an electric current. The wood does not interact with the magnetic field of those pickups.



This statement by itself is right.



HaMMerHeD said:


> The strings do.



This is also right.

But what you're forgetting one thing. The vibration of the wood affects the vibration of the strings thus influencing what the pickup picks up. So tonewood is definitely an important part of the equation, both physically and in my own experience.

One example: Why doesn't an Epiphone Les Paul sound like a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul even if you change all the hardware to be exactly the same? Because of the quality of woods used. And to go even further: why doesn't one Custom Shop Paula sounds like another? Because even in this case you can hear the subtle differences between the timbers as you can't clone trees.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2011)

Where's the, "someone is wrong on the internet", smiley when you need it


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## IkarusOnFire (Oct 17, 2011)

First of all, thanks for answering Misha  
I'm gad to have a handful of answers concerning _tonewoods_. Whatever the almighty truth may be, I have to stick to what people have experienced and heard/felt. Music, in it's form, is something we as unique individuals perceive, making oppinions on sounds likely to be rather different from person to person. 

Just to clarify on my earlier post - I have read various statements on the tonewood debate, and wanted a particular oppinion. If I am to voice my own oppinion, I'd go for: "wood matters". 

Cheers!


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## Lilarcor (Oct 17, 2011)




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## HaMMerHeD (Oct 17, 2011)

The Armada said:


> Just give it up dude. You're wrong, deal with it.
> 
> People with your viewpoint are like the "George Bush Bombed the World Trade Centers" enthusiasts of the music world. All flair and evocative verbiage but no support.



Wow, you even managed to work 9/11 into it. Well done. But if you want to be a proper troll, you should have jumped straight to Hitler.

But that's cool. If you want to eschew reason for doctrine, there are plenty of others who are happy to accept the lies of the previous generation. Some of us, however, like to think for ourselves.



Lilarcor said:


> But what you're forgetting one thing. The vibration of the wood affects the vibration of the strings thus influencing what the pickup picks up. So tonewood is definitely an important part of the equation, both physically and in my own experience.
> 
> One example: Why doesn't an Epiphone Les Paul sound like a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul even if you change all the hardware to be exactly the same? Because of the quality of woods used. And to go even further: why doesn't one Custom Shop Paula sounds like another? Because even in this case you can hear the subtle differences between the timbers as you can't clone trees.



I disagree that the wood affects the vibration of the strings in an electric guitar. Hardwood is not resonant at frequencies at which guitar strings vibrate. It's also not consistently resonant. In order for the wood to modify the string's vibrations, it would have to have some resonant relationship. And it doesn't.

Also, cheap Epiphone Les Pauls are vastly different from real Les Pauls in more ways than just the wood used. If you took a higher-end epi LP (set neck, same construction techniques) and swapped the hardware, I am confident that the only people would could tell the difference would be people who wanted to tell the difference. It's a part of psychoacoustics. You want there to be a difference, so you hear one. Perception is absolutely colored by expectations. 



At any rate...this thread has been effectively derailed, and I apologize to the OP, and I will exit this conversation. I truly didn't mean to sully your thread with pointless "debate".

OP, your guitar is beautiful and I'm sure it is going to sound awesome when you get it.


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## IB-studjent- (Oct 17, 2011)

Resonance occurs when the frequency of the force applied is equal to the frequency of the object. As different woods have different densities thus having different frequencies. Different frequencies are needed to resonate the object.
Being wrong doesn't hurt. hope this helps the case.


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## teleofseven (Oct 17, 2011)

can someone just ban this guy, i hate it when people are so wrong and that they don't even realize it themselves.

why do guitars with different woods sound different, EVEN WITHOUT PICKUPS?
(both guitars being built with the same shape and parts)

it's because of the tonal qualities of wood. misha has played alot of different guitars with different woods. i have made and played several guitars with different woods. none of them sound the same acousticly nor electricly.

misha, if anyone, knows what hes talking about! 

you obviously haven't played enough meny guitars to be able to tell it yourself.

i had a squier showmaster as my fist guitar. it was made out of some really cheap woods and had a insanely thick layer of paint on it. it sounded like SHIT acousticly and electricly. then i made my first guitar. which was made out of mahogany and maple. it sounded great, acousticly and electricly. not because i made it (it wasn't really too good to play) but because it had good tonewoods on it! parts were cheap but it had good pickups on it.

it was a telecaster.

the next guitar i made was a les paul custom. it had a mahogany body and neck and a maple top. it had the same pickups and it still sounded alot different than my tele!

you are either tone deaf, or you just don't know shit about guitars.


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## orakle (Oct 17, 2011)

Actually he's partly right, but he ignores a lot about frequency generating, stabilizing ...

lets just stop that here


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## Kamin (Oct 17, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> I disagree that the wood affects the vibration of the strings in an electric guitar. Hardwood is not resonant at frequencies at which guitar strings vibrate. It's also not consistently resonant. In order for the wood to modify the string's vibrations, it would have to have some resonant relationship. And it doesn't.



Have you ever put your ear to the back of your guitar? The hardwood is most definitely resonant. If the wood is vibrating, the pickups, which are coupled to the wood are also vibrating and since the vibration of the wood is a function of density and other things, the wood choice effects the vibration properties of the guitar. It's not as simple as you are making it.


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## Enselmis (Oct 17, 2011)

teleupyerass said:


> you are either tone deaf, or you just don't know shit about guitars.



Tone deaf means something very different than what you seem to think it does. Look it up. It is a term that is misused entirely too often.

On topic: The inlay on that thing blows my mind so hard.


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## WishIwasfinnish (Oct 18, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> I don't know what I'm talking about and apologize profusely to everyone here for wasting their time




Wow, thank you so much for the humble apology, I believe I speak for all of us when I say that I accept.


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## AwakenNoMore (Oct 18, 2011)

Strange, I thought this thread was a about Misha's newest epic guitar being built. All I'm reading is jibber jabber from people that need to change their tampons.


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## Fiction (Oct 18, 2011)

Kamin said:


> *Have you ever put your ear to the back of your guitar?* _la la la la_... _la._



I had to try that, was good fun.. Mum walked in as I held my guitar up to the head playing a few riffs, Got the "What the fuck are you doing, Son" Look.

_Also_, *DAT INLAY + DAT OCEANBURST + DEM SIDE INLAYS.

*... I'm done


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## sk3ks1s (Oct 18, 2011)

Does it un-djent?


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## IB-studjent- (Oct 18, 2011)

I talked to my physics teacher today and he said that Hammered's statements are correct, but although wood might impact the sound the resonance occurs between the strings and the picks. But I think that different woods do some what add to the tone. But again this is a really deep study and lets just keep this thread friendly and stop pissing each other off.


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## orakle (Oct 18, 2011)

Wood doesnt add to the tone, it acts as an EQ, it stabilizes/attenuates some frenquencies





bottom line : buy active pickups, no more debate about wood


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## IB-studjent- (Oct 18, 2011)

orakle said:


> Wood doesnt add to the tone, it acts as an EQ, it stabilizes/attenuates some frenquencies
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 you win


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 18, 2011)

awesome guitar misha!


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## JaeSwift (Oct 18, 2011)

narad said:


> But he's also over at TGP saying that it makes no sense to talk about the tonal properties of claro walnut because there are so many subspecies that get classified under that header. If he believed wood didn't matter, it wouldn't make sense to say that. (we're talking ........., right?)



The dude is pretty much a walking contradiction, I shouldn't have brought him up as an example ;<_<

Regardless, there's lots of debate on that topic. I for one believe that wood makes a huge difference, but there's probably 10 others that don't. As long as my ears still hear the difference, that's all that matters to me.


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## Speculum Speculorum (Oct 19, 2011)

For all that is pure... this thread is about Misha's guitar, which kicks total ass.

And as everyone who isn't living in the dark ages knows: wood choices, body shapes, neck construction, pickups (active or passives), strings, cables, picks and picking styles, finger tone, amplifiers/axe-fx's, satin or poly finishes - none of those contribute a single thing to a player's tone.

If you really want to sound good, you need a purple-burst guitar and long, wispy, blonde hair being blown back by a stage fan set on medium-high.


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## AwakenNoMore (Oct 19, 2011)

^ also penguins


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## bulb (Oct 19, 2011)

if what that dude said was true, then all guitars with the same pickups and strings would sound exactly the same
and yet they just dont
you can record them and hear it for yourself.
hell even EMGs which are active and sound very consistent still sound different in different guitars.
everything affects the sound to some degree, and body wood (especially in a bolt on or set neck) affects it greatly.
anyone who argues differently has no evidence other than regurgitated misunderstood "physics" and no experience to back it up.
i believe the burden of proof is on the side of those denying tonewood's importance, and id like to see some non anecdotal evidence from experiements that prove that tonewoods dont affect sound.


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## bulb (Oct 19, 2011)

orakle said:


> Wood doesnt add to the tone, it acts as an EQ, it stabilizes/attenuates some frenquencies
> 
> 
> 
> ...



anything that acts as an EQ by definition is adding to the "tone" of an instrument, and as i said in the last post, from experience i can tell you that active pickups even sound slightly different in different guitars with different woods.

what im curious to hear is why guitars sound different if its not for the tonewoods? is it hardware? strings? pickups? what one aspect does he believe changes the sound of the guitars? this will be good!


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## Jontain (Oct 19, 2011)

lol at people arguing with someone who has far more experience in diverse guitars than they ever could (that i know of disclaimer). As an example my seven is exactly the same as my friends seven bar the body/neck wood and neck fitting (bolt-on / set), other than that they have the same pickups, same tuning, same strings, same scale length and yet put through the same amp they sound obviously different, how is that possible if the wood makes no difference? (this even with EMG actives in!)

Axe looks epic man, inlay is sick as per dylan's standard.


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## teleofseven (Oct 19, 2011)

this thread has 69 likes lawlawlawl


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## Speculum Speculorum (Oct 19, 2011)

Perhaps, Misha, my super dry humor and sarcasm does not transfer well via text. I will continue to work upon my written wit until I can coax Twain-like jest from my sentences.

Really - everything - and I mean every single part of the equation, dictates the tone that is generated out of an instrument. It's simply that some people have absolutely no ear. Not that they couldn't train their ear. Yet they are too lazy, conceited, or completely oblivious to reality to do anything about making it better. 

We should probably round up all of these musicians, dose them with about 3.5-5 grams of psilocybe mushrooms, and have them listen to varied music at a healthy volume in a dimly-lit room. Clean the cochlear nerve right up.


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## JaeSwift (Oct 19, 2011)

bulb said:


> if what that dude said was true, then all guitars with the same pickups and strings would sound exactly the same
> and yet they just dont
> you can record them and hear it for yourself.
> hell even EMGs which are active and sound very consistent still sound different in different guitars.
> ...



Actually, Aristides guitars pretty much proved that tonewood and materials affect sound greatly. He invented his own material, ''Arium'', of which he makes guitars. It resonates on cellular level to sonic frequencies similair to superior tonewoods, though I wouldn't know which ones specifically. It's sort of like a flaxwood on crack.


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 20, 2011)

a huge part of how a guitar will sound is in the qualities of the wood: mass and hardness. Then a large part of it will be in construction. The tonewoods part is mostly about the overall mass VS hardness. The difference between woods and the difference between two pieces of the same wood are both big, but you can usually get a piece of wood A that sounds like wood B, and you can get pieces of wood that completely ignore everything about what people say that wood sounds like.

tonewoods are a complicated matter once you start talking about specific physics, so i just stick to light and resonant woods in general, and then go to the pretty ones 

that inlay is so fucking awesome


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## WishIwasfinnish (Oct 20, 2011)

I'd love to see a sound comparison between a regular guitar with active pickups and a guitar made of metal or stone or something ridiculous like that and see what the difference is. 

But once again yes, I would love to make sex on that inlay.


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## JPMike (Oct 20, 2011)

I stopped logging in the forum these days, for this particular thread... Can't stand it!!


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## Rook (Oct 20, 2011)

bulb said:


> anything that acts as an EQ by definition is adding to the "tone" of an instrument, and as i said in the last post, from experience i can tell you that active pickups even sound slightly different in different guitars with different woods.
> 
> what im curious to hear is why guitars sound different if its not for the tonewoods? is it hardware? strings? pickups? what one aspect does he believe changes the sound of the guitars? this will be good!



I agree, indeed. I do think the reason why a lot of people (myself included for a long time) think EMG's don't sound any different in different guitars is because they are _so_ under-wound that the response going into the preamp of the pickup is near enough flat, then the preamp applies its changes to that, but near enough flat isn;t flat, and in something like that nothing can be perfectly flat as the wood and construction has a direct impact on the harmonics present on the string itself which the pickup has no impact on. So they do change in different guitars, but that's why people tend to find that it isn't by such a noticeable amount.

I actually think that if you have two guitars that are supposedly built the same - basswood body, bolt on maple neck, ebony board, say, both have the same floating trem and both weight roughly the same (piece by piece I mean) there's a lot that can change electronically as these are where the highest tolerance percentages lie.

Most CTS pots come with a tolerance of 20% for example, so a 500k pot could be anywhere from 400-600k. Putting that to extremes, you could end up with a guitar with a volume and tone control both 400k in comparison to a guitar with two 600k pots, the latter will be much brighter and a bit thinner. Then there's the tolerance of the tone pots capacitor, some techs believe the length of wire left from the pickup makes a difference (I'm not convinced personally) but even the quality of solder joint can have an impact. The more solder there is between the actual conductor and the terminal, the more parasitic capacitances you get.

Every time you change the medium in which the current from the pickups is being carried, there will be a subtle effect on the signal. I think if an entire wiring harness can be transferred from one guitar to an identical one much less difference ill be found, but people tend to just compare 1 guitar with a particular pickup to another with the same.

I don't know if you were asking a serious question or not, but there's my view 

Obviously, if there are notable differences in mass between parts of a guitar, that'll have some subtle impact but we weren't discussing that .


Yet another cool guitar BTW, I've been umming and arring about Daemoness for months, haven't quite been so taken by one to actually put my money where my mouth is yet.

Getting pretty close though...


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## TheKhann (Oct 20, 2011)

^
Here is a somewhat incomplete study on the matter:

http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

What has puzzled me here is the huge difference in the acoustic spectrum vs. the pickup output spectrum. I don&#8217;t think that the author analyzes the data as thoroughly as he should ( there are some audible differences in the spectrum between the two bodies, which I think the ear will be able to hear), but the results clearly show that the pickups do diminish the acoustic differences between different types of woods. 

p.s. sorry for the derailment, move to a new topic if need be.


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## just_kosteg (Oct 22, 2011)

bulb said:


> For example, i recorded clips rosewood necked BFR vs a regular BFR so i could a/b the difference, and there was a very clear audible difference in the timbre of the rosewood necked one, one that was very consistent with the 2 rosewood necked bfrs i ended up getting.



Can you describe the difference between rosewood-necked and simple one BFR? 

Your axe turned out amazing! My Daemoness build gonna start next month, so I want to double-check everything in specs


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## technomancer (Oct 22, 2011)

*The next moron that continues this tonewood thread derail is getting a month off and the bans will go up in length from there *


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## bulb (Oct 22, 2011)

just_kosteg said:


> Can you describe the difference between rosewood-necked and simple one BFR?
> 
> Your axe turned out amazing! My Daemoness build gonna start next month, so I want to double-check everything in specs



Honestly the difference was very interesting, i think because the neck material is actually very different in turgidity and density from the wood in my blackmachine (which is VERY stiff and dense) it ended up having a drastically different effect despite the fact that it is technically rosewood in both cases.

In the BFR instead of adding attack and bite (like it does on a blackmachine) it made the guitar ever so slightly darker, but the most audible change was the timbre of the instrument. The timbre was lowered substantially to where it sounds like you are tuned lower than you actually are, it has that 8 string sort of character for lack of a better description. Very cool!


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## daemonessaxes (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm going to whip a fret out and put the filament in. Couldn't think of a way to do it but when I read the earlier comments I thought; it should be visable. So I thought about a way to cut the aluminium that fine, and it worked.


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## Khaine88 (Oct 25, 2011)

daemonessaxes said:


> I'm going to whip a fret out and put the filament in. Couldn't think of a way to do it but when I read the earlier comments I thought; it should be visable. So I thought about a way to cut the aluminium that fine, and it worked.



If anyone can do that it's you Dyl, cant wait to see how that comes out!


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## just_kosteg (Oct 26, 2011)

bulb said:


> Honestly the difference was very interesting, i think because the neck material is actually very different in turgidity and density from the wood in my blackmachine (which is VERY stiff and dense) it ended up having a drastically different effect despite the fact that it is technically rosewood in both cases.
> 
> In the BFR instead of adding attack and bite (like it does on a blackmachine) it made the guitar ever so slightly darker, but the most audible change was the timbre of the instrument. The timbre was lowered substantially to where it sounds like you are tuned lower than you actually are, it has that 8 string sort of character for lack of a better description. Very cool!



Yep, I have noticed it as well - wood characteristics really matters, not just type of wood.
BTW I have noticed that you are using mostly maple necks instead of rosewood nowadays. Why? I know that they're normally more stable, but is there something in the sound of maple neck that is better for you?

I heard not too much guitars with a rosewood necks, but the necks of best-timbred guitars that I ever heard were made of one piece of maple


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