# WWE



## Michael (Apr 25, 2007)

Anyone else here like wrestling? I happen to love it.  I watch RAW and Smackdown whenever it's on.


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## Shannon (Apr 25, 2007)

I lost interest when it became "WWE." WWF FTW!


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## Donnie (Apr 25, 2007)

I wont say that I love it but I always end up watching it for some reason.  It's entertaining.


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## Scott (Apr 25, 2007)

I used to watch it in my early teens. After hearing the camera pick up the ref telling one guy what move to do next though, it kind of took the fun out of it for me.


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## DelfinoPie (Apr 25, 2007)

Shannon said:


> I lost interest when it became "WWE." WWF FTW!



Same here, I used to watch it back in the day when they had "The Oddities" and The Ministry of Darkness. Those were some awesome times.

Then for some completely rubbish reason they split the wrestlers into Raw and Smackdown...I'd stopped watching years before but when my friends told me I was like "I don't see that being anything but a bad thing."


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

Another pro wrestling fan here. Hardcore.

I like anything that has to do with fighting, real or scripted. MMA (UFC and Pride), boxing, amateur wrestling (freestyle and Greco-Roman), submission wrestling (like the Abu Dhabi Combat Club, jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, san shou, you name it.

As for pro wrestling, I've been a fan for most of my life. To this day, I'm not a huge TV watcher, but I'll generally watch all the pro wrestling that's on - Raw, Smackdown, ECW, and especially TNA Impact. I've seen WWE live many times, ECW (back in the day when it was the real ECW), and just recently, I saw TNA's Bound For Glory PPV in Detroit, back in October.

I looooove wrestling. And I generally root for the heels.  But really, whomever is the most entertaining and proficient is generally my favorite, like Kurt Angle or King Booker. The fan favorites, like John Cena, I usually shit on.


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## Michael (Apr 25, 2007)

Kurt Angle was awesome.  What ever happened to him anyway?

My fav's are RVD and The Undertaker.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

Mawdyson said:


> Kurt Angle was awesome.  What ever happened to him anyway?



He's in TNA now.


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## Pauly (Apr 25, 2007)

I liked it up to about 2000 then I lost interest.


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## the.godfather (Apr 25, 2007)

Another big wrestling fan here too. I must admit I haven't watched any in the last year, zip, nothing. But I never missed a thing for about 15 years before that. Anything from WWF, WCW, ECW, TNA. Anything really.

ECW was always my thing though. But as Bobby (TDW) said, only when it was the "real" ECW. Not the toned-down crap it is nowdays. I liked it back when it was all Terry Funk, Sabu, Jerry Lynn, Justin Credible, Mike Awesome, Cactus Jack, Rob Van Damm. 

I just haven't really got time for it anymore. The only one I try to catch now and again is TNA, just because their roster gets better and better by the week.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

TNA is my favorite too.

Although lately, since hiring ex-WWF/WCW (and the man who killed WCW, in large part) writer Vince Russo, their product hasn't been nearly as good. In all honesty, the past 4, 5 months or so, Smackdown has generally been the best wrestling show on TV.


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## noodles (Apr 25, 2007)

I used to watch it...right up to the point that every match became a run in from the back, jump the guy with chairs, no disqualifications free for all. I'm also grew tired of everyone forming their own factions and interfering in everything else. Ditto for all the bra and panties cat fights: if you're going to do that, then make it nudity and jello, because those are the only female matches I wanna see. And fuck Vince getting involved with everything, I liked it better when wrestlers didn't get into fights with the management.

It was far more entertaining when cheating meant you had to get one by the ref. Often times the wrestler was caught doing it, was dq'ed, which caused a free for all, complete with twenty guys running in from the back. That was the only way a free for all was fun. Wrestling was the most fun in the eighties, when it was more like cartoons and less like Maxim.


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## garcia3441 (Apr 25, 2007)

the.godfather said:


> Mike Awesome,



I read somewhere that he committed suicide in February.


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## Rick (Apr 25, 2007)

I still watch it from time to time. I was a huge WCW fan, I would go back and forth between WCW and WWF during the Monday Night wars but for the most part, I'd watch WCW. I watch TNA sometimes as well. My favorite wrestler has always been Sting.


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

Wrestling ain't what it used to be back when the WWF/WWE had Austin, The Rock, Mankind, Chris Jericho all at the top the card they owned the universe. Now they're all gone and it's just not the same. 

The WWE version of ECW is lame compared to the original. The old school ECW was the best shit ever. It was great matches and crazy funny gimmicks. It was perfect. 

TNA is ok. But they need to stop trying to push no talent assholes like Scott Steiner who haven't been worth a shit in ten years and let the TNA guys like AJ Styles rule the promotion.


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## the.godfather (Apr 25, 2007)

garcia3441 said:


> I read somewhere that he committed suicide in February.



Really?!?
m
Wow, didn't hear that. That would be a huge shame if he did. I always thought he was quite under-rated during his wrestling career. He had a very, very short stint in WWE when Vince bought out WCW, and then just dissapeared. But he was at his absolute best when he was in Japan and with ECW. 

I just read this on Wikipedia:-

_"Awesome was found dead at around 10:30 p.m. on February 17, 2007 [14] in the Tampa area. He was 42 years old. A group of friends who were coming to his home to pick him up and go out found him hanged in his home. It is believed he committed suicide.[14] He is survived by his wife, Delisa Bowers, and their children Casey and Carissa."_

Such a shame, R.I.P Mike.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> Wrestling ain't what it used to be back when the WWF/WWE had Austin, The Rock, Mankind, Chris Jericho all at the top the card they owned the universe. Now they're all gone and it's just not the same.
> 
> The WWE version of ECW is lame compared to the original. The old school ECW was the best shit ever. It was great matches and crazy funny gimmicks. It was perfect.
> 
> TNA is ok. But they need to stop trying to push no talent assholes like Scott Steiner who haven't been worth a shit in ten years and let the TNA guys like *AJ Styles* rule the promotion.*


Holy fuck.

Marry me now. 


We'll throw Allison Mack in there and be a happy menage a' three. 





* Thank Vince Russo.


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## Jason (Apr 25, 2007)

noodles said:


> I used to watch it...right up to the point that every match became a run in from the back, jump the guy with chairs, no disqualifications free for all. I'm also grew tired of everyone forming their own factions and interfering in everything else. Ditto for all the bra and panties cat fights: if you're going to do that, then make it nudity and jello, because those are the only female matches I wanna see. And fuck Vince getting involved with everything, I liked it better when wrestlers didn't get into fights with the management.
> 
> It was far more entertaining when cheating meant you had to get one by the ref. Often times the wrestler was caught doing it, was dq'ed, which caused a free for all, complete with twenty guys running in from the back. That was the only way a free for all was fun. Wrestling was the most fun in the eighties, when it was more like cartoons and less like Maxim.




Pretty much my thoughts..


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

I tell you what Bob I'll knock the bottom out of Allison and we'll watch wrestling together. 

TNA would be sweet if the let Cornette run it or even better bring in Paul Heyman and really focus on the X divison. Also unloading Steiner, Tomko and Nash wouldn't hurt my feelings.


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## the.godfather (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> or even better bring in Paul Heyman



Now your talking.

He was awesome with ECW. 
WWE tried using him, but imo failed to utilise him properly. They let him commentate for a while, and let him manage a few guys now and then (Brock Lesnar for example) but not much apart from that


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

Heyman actually ran Smackdown has the head writerfor a while. It was Smackdown's greatest period ever. If Heyman took over TNA is would own.

This is from Wikipedia



> During Heyman's tenure on SmackDown!, he served as the head writer, and is credited with being the creative force behind the successful so-called "Smackdown Six" (Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero). He placed them in a "triple threat tag team feud" (Angle & Benoit, Edge & Mysterio, Los Guerreros) over the WWE Tag Team Championship.
> 
> At the 2003 No Way Out PPV it was reported that Heyman was removed from the SmackDown! writing team, mainly because of backstage political issues between him, Creative Director Stephanie McMahon and RAW writer Brian Gewirtz.


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## tylershelburne (Apr 25, 2007)

I love it. I like it even more now that the Hardy Boyz are together again. I hate what John Cena has done to the wwe title though


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> I tell you what Bob I'll knock the bottom out of Allison and we'll watch wrestling together.
> 
> TNA would be sweet if the let Cornette run it or even better bring in Paul Heyman and really focus on the X divison. Also unloading Steiner, Tomko and Nash wouldn't hurt my feelings.



Sloppy seconds! 

Corny could do a good job. But he's still part owner of OVW (WWE's farm league), so... JJ and Dixie Carter might understandably be a little leery of that proposition.

Plus, Corny and Heyman LOATHE each other. 

BTW, Paul E. is still under contract to Vince. But I expect him to jump ship at his earliest convenience. RVD might bail to TNA as well. His contract is up in a little over a month. Talk about a fit! (RVD vs. AJ? And RVD and Kurt have have had some of the best matches of either's career. Or to REALLY get crazy... rekindle the old RVD/Jerry Lynn feud from ECW!!!)


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

Cornette could do a great job. I just always cringe when I watch TNA and it's lets pretend Steiner and Tomko are scary. 

RVD would be a good fit for TNA. There was talk a while back the Jericho would go to TNA. Jericho in TNA would be totally sweet.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> Cornette could do a great job. I just always cringe when I watch TNA and it's lets pretend Steiner and Tomko are scary.
> 
> RVD would be a good fit for TNA. There was talk a while back the Jericho would go to TNA. Jericho in TNA would be totally sweet.



Have you seen how they redid Jay Lethal as The Black Machismo? (Black Macho Man). Holy fuck, Jay can do Macho Man so good, it's scary. 

It's a terrific gimmick.


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

Jay Lethal was pretty cool without the gimmick.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> Jay Lethal was pretty cool without the gimmick.


Yeah, but rather bland outside of the wrestling. Have you seen it? He is really talented and very funny, homes. I mean, he nails it. Makes me laugh my ass off every time.


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

I'll be even more impressed when he gets his own version of Miss Elizabeth.


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## noodles (Apr 25, 2007)

As long as people are bad mouthing vince Russo, go ahead and add that cocknozzle Eric Bishoff to the list.


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

Eric Bischoff had every advantage and lost. How sad is that?


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 25, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> Eric Bischoff had every advantage and lost. How sad is that?



Bischoff's an odd fellow.

I actually blame Hogan at least as much as Bisch for the demise of WCW. Holy shit, the backstage politics of that place.

I kinda like Bisch, I dunno. He sure kicked the shit out of Vince for awhile.


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## zimbloth (Apr 25, 2007)

I liked what Vince Russo was doing for WCW for a while before he got the rug pulled out from under him by the old guard.


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## noodles (Apr 25, 2007)

Hogan, Flair, Steiner...all those old bastards need to quit. Seriously. They're ruining the show.


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## Michael (Apr 25, 2007)

Totally. No disrespect, but Flair has really lost his touch. I know it's all fake, but Flair makes it look so obvious when he's in the ring.


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## noodles (Apr 25, 2007)

I hate to see it, too, because Flair was *THE MAN* back in the day. No one could touch him for the total package. Dude is like 60 now, though!


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## jaymz_wylde (Apr 25, 2007)

When I was into wrestling these were my favorites
the ultimate warrior and legion of Doom


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## ohio_eric (Apr 25, 2007)

noodles said:


> I hate to see it, too, because Flair was *THE MAN* back in the day. No one could touch him for the total package. Dude is like 60 now, though!



 

The happiest words in wrestling are Flair vs Steamboat. Sigh, those were some kickass matches.


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## playstopause (Apr 25, 2007)

jaymz_wylde said:


> the ultimate warrior



Ultimate warrior FTW!!!

And how about this guy?


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## jaymz_wylde (Apr 25, 2007)

playstopause said:


> Ultimate warrior FTW!!!
> 
> And how about this guy?



He was a legend,and still is,but I liked the craziness of the warrior and LOD


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## Rick (Apr 25, 2007)

Man, I miss WCW. Oh well. RVD would be awesome in TNA.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 26, 2007)

Flair lost his touch?

I respectfully disagree. Hogan? Yes. The other old guys, generally? Yes.

But Naitch? No way. I probably watch more wrestling than anyone on this board, and within the last three years, some of the best matches I've seen have involved Flair.

It's not that his athletic prowess is top notch anymore (although that was never his strong suit). It's that he still knows how to tell a story in the ring. The skills Flair has always been superior at are making his opponents look good (selling moves), making his matches dramatic, his in-ring psychology and his interviews, and his conditioning. To be honest, his conditioning is _still_ good, and those other skills are ones that don't dramatically diminish with age, until you get so old it doesn't matter. Hell, in many ways, they only improve. Even Lou Thesz was wrestling good matches up until his later years.

Flair can make anyone look better, and if you put him with a quality opponent, like Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels, the match stands a great chance of being terrific.


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## zimbloth (Apr 26, 2007)

All I have to say is: Hollywood Hogan 4 life


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 26, 2007)

Even Hogan, as shitty, beat down, and as limited as he is, is still a total _master_ at manipulating an audience. Whether on the mic or in the ring, he gets people eating out of the palm of his hand. It's why he's the biggest name ever in professional wrestling.

And I generally hate Hogan.


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## zimbloth (Apr 26, 2007)

I only really liked heels, always have. Theyre more entertaining. Hollywood Hogan was just the king of getting thousands of people in the audience to hate him. When he'd beat down some loser like Sting or Luger, people would be throwing shit, getting upset, it was very amusing. I loved it. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were mint too. Another one of my all-time favorites was Curt Hennig (Mr Perfect). It's a shame he (and Rick Rude, another one of my favs) died.


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## the.godfather (Apr 26, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> I loved it. Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were mint too.



Yeah, "The Wolfpack". That for me was when WCW was at its best. During the Goldberg years. Back when they had an awesome roster. Sting, Luger, Giant, DDP, Savage, Flair, Raven, Booker T and Stevie Ray (Harlem Heat). 

God that was a great roster for a few years. Some of the shows they put on were awesome.


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## Volsung (Apr 26, 2007)

I LOVE WRESTLING!!! I will continue to love it and I'll watch it till the day I die. I've been watching as far back as I can remember (literally). Everything from old school red & yellow Hulk Hogan, to Bret "The Hitman" Hart, to The Undertaker, Ultimate Warrior, etc. (I could go on forever...). 

As far as these days, it doesn't have that old school feeling it used to have. For example, the new ECW is lame when compared to the old ECW (apparently Vince even finds gets irrataded by it). Who came up with "Extreme Exposse anyway? Dancing and ECW do not mix, I don't care how much T & A there is. Plus, John Cena's push on RAW as of late needs to stop. 

TNA is cool, but they need another hour (which I think they'll get one here pretty soon). I'm happy to see Jeff Jarrett (partial owner of TNA), Rhyno, Sting, Kurt Angle, Team 3D (the Dudleys), Jackie Moore, & all of the other veterans still wrestling. Plus, the TNA origionals (AJ Styles, Abyss, etc.) are proving themselves as fantastic wrestlers. 

The only thing I hope happens in future WWE is for Cena to loose his title. I don't care to who, I just want it to happen.

I can talk wrestling ALL DAY, but I'll stop here before I write a sevenstring.org published book about wrestling.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 26, 2007)

Volsung said:


> I can talk wrestling ALL DAY, but I'll stop here before I write a sevenstring.org published book about wrestling.


You and me both. MMA and Wrestling, my 2 loves outside of politics and metal.


I wouldn't mind seeing Cena lose the strap. Ha. Shit, I'd love it. I mean, Cena the guy is cool - he's come along way in his wrestling, he busts his ass, he's charismatic as hell and great on the stick (potentially).

But fuck, they really need to de-push him, and quit trying to make him into the next "Rock Cold" Hulk Cena. The whole "super Cena, get my ass whipped for 20 minutes and yet win in 3 moves" bullshit has to stop.


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## noodles (Apr 26, 2007)

Volsung said:


> The only thing I hope happens in future WWE is for Cena to loose his title. I don't care to who, I just want it to happen.



Agreed. It is never good for a face to carry the belt for so long. Some of the best ratings WWE ever got is when HHH was carrying the title. No matter what happened, someone cheated, and The Rock lost everytime. It used to make my friends and I so fucking mad, but we'd keep tuning in to see what happened next. HHH was such a fucking dick, I wanted to punch him in the nuts.

Then Rock finally won, and ratings dropped. What was the point in watching after the good guy won? HHH was at his height in those days, and absolutely made you hate him. He had the girl, the belt, was in with the boss. He was the perfect representation of injustice. And he is soooo good at being a cocky asshole dick bastard. I can just tell he worshiped at the temple of Flair. 

I think The Rock did so well because he was the heal that everyone grew to love. He never stopped being a cocky asshole. He never stopped playing dirty. I still think he was better on the mic than anyone ever, because he had a bazillion catch phrases, knew how to work the crowd, and taylored everything to what was happening right then and there. He had the gift of improv that few have, and he is the only one that really took off where masters like Hogan and Flair left off. John Cena wants to be The Rock so bad that he can taste it, but to me he comes off as a bad carbon copy.


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## noodles (Apr 26, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Even Hogan, as shitty, beat down, and as limited as he is, is still a total _master_ at manipulating an audience. Whether on the mic or in the ring, he gets people eating out of the palm of his hand. It's why he's the biggest name ever in professional wrestling.





The Dark Wolf said:


> It's not that his athletic prowess is top notch anymore (although that was never his strong suit). It's that he still knows how to tell a story in the ring. The skills Flair has always been superior at are making his opponents look good (selling moves), making his matches dramatic, his in-ring psychology and his interviews, and his conditioning. To be honest, his conditioning is _still_ good, and those other skills are ones that don't dramatically diminish with age, until you get so old it doesn't matter. Hell, in many ways, they only improve. Even Lou Thesz was wrestling good matches up until his later years.



To me, both of these guys are in the way of progress. New talent will never develop if the old guys are still blocking the way up. Honestly, I don't care how dynamic they are behind the mic, they just don't have the look anymore. I don't want to see a bunch of senior citizens limping around the ring. I want to see young dudes flying off the top turnbuckle, knocking people through tables. The matches are far more entertaining this way. What the old guys should be doing is teaching the young ones how to sell it like they do. Keep them around the show in the kind of role that Vince and Shane have: the guy in the suit, pulling the fast ones on people, interfering, working the crowd, and *occasionally* taking off the coat and shirt to kick someone's ass.


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## garcia3441 (Apr 26, 2007)

4 names:
Ric Flair
Arn Anderson
Ole Anderson
Tully Blanchard


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 26, 2007)

noodles said:


> To me, both of these guys are in the way of progress. New talent will never develop if the old guys are still blocking the way up.



Dave... in Flair's case, there basically _one_ old guy left. 

Who do you think helps the young guys learn the ropes? It's an illusion of scarcity you're proposing, like there's no room for Flair, and that he's taking up a valuable spot. 

You're right the old guys should help, but 1) Flair is still a draw, and 2) he helps the younger talent in the ring. 

WWE's roster is _mostly_ young guys, with a few middle aged, and very few older dudes like Flair. And it's not like Flair is in contention for the title anyway. He's used to help younger guys and get them over. And have you seen the younger guys lately? Gah. There's not a ton of depth or talent there.

Look, in the old days, guys had to work the territories, and really learn their craft. Guys like Flair, HHH, Bret Hart, even Chris Benoit. Nowadays, they go sign up for some classes, and because WWE gobbled up all the territories, there's only one place to go - the big leagues. No time to really learn the art and become great.

Today's wrestlers are in many ways, at least the smaller, indy circuit guys (and some TNA guys), more agile and do some crazy shit in the ring. But it's a spot fest (Do you know "spot"? It's when a wrestler hits a big offensive move). Jump on the ropes, do a flip, crowd goes "WHOA!", other guy sells for 20 seconds, then he does the same. That's fine, but really telling a story is sort of a vanishing art, so guys who know the ins and outs are even more valuable. So, hence, why Flair is still around.




noodles said:


> I want to see young dudes


 I bet you do.


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## the.godfather (Apr 26, 2007)

Hell yeah, 'The Four Horsemen'.


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## ohio_eric (Apr 26, 2007)

There was a rumor that Ricky Steamboat wanted to come out of retirement to wrestle Ric Flair at Wrestlemania 22.McMahin said no. He was probably right as old school matches like Steamboat vs Flair seem to go over people's heads anymore. Flair was the best at what he did. But now as hard as he tries people want crazy fools jumping off of ladders through burning tables covered in barbed wire.


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## garcia3441 (Apr 26, 2007)

the.godfather said:


> Hell yeah, 'The Four Horsemen'.



Or the Fabulous Freebirds.


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## The Dark Wolf (Apr 26, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


> But now as hard as he tries people want crazy fools jumping off of ladders through burning tables covered in barbed wire.



Mmm. I wouldn't go quite that far.

There's some truth to it, in that it's trendy to wrestle like that now, but there's still a significant market for name wrestlers AND classic mat-style wrestling. In fact, I'd say moreso, since that type of aerial, nutty wrestling is by-and-large seen more on the indy circuit/ROH. But even then, some of ROH's biggest stars to emerge from there haven't been hardcore and/or aerial specialists - Samoa Joe and CM Punk, for example.

Proof - Kurt Angle.


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## Volsung (Apr 27, 2007)

Yup, Samoa Joe is definately a fine wrestler. One would think that he isn't as agile as he is at first glance. Him and the bigger men from the Anoa'i Wrestling family (Umaga, Rikishi, Jamal, etc.) are much more athletic then they look. And (getting to the high-flying subject) they don't do alot of top rope moves. Maybe one or two, but that's it. 

And let's not forget Benoit. He does his signature falling head-butt, but he's all technical wrestling when it comes down to it. 

Good ol' wrestling never fails, but that high-flying shit is still cool as Hell. 


On another note (just a bit of a digretion)...Randy Orton recently got himself into big trouble (again). He trashed his hotel room in Europe, they didn't say why. The costs come to about $50,000. His punishment isn't really clear, but it'll probly be a hefty fine. So...I think it's safe to say that Orton won't be taking the gold home after Backlash. I guess we'll see what happens.


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