# Engl e530 or 5150 for death metal??



## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 29, 2008)

i have kind of narrowed it down to a couple amps. i have the mesa right now, but its a sagging type distortion, i'm wanting a tighter, dryer type distortion.

now, i know a bit about the 5150, i know it can do death metal quite well.
what i dont know much about is the engl. i'v heard a few clips and the e530 sounds quite dry, quite like necrophagist or something of that sort. It sounded like what i wanted, but once again, thats web clips.

iv read lots of threads on the engl, and lots of people say its a one trick death metal pony, or that the best you could get out of is modern rock, i'm assuming like a radio rock type distortion from the sounds of it. 

To be honost, i dont really give a shit if its a one trick death metal pony as long as it can nail it.

Another thing i noticed, there arnt many 5150's out there and what ones i'm finding are like 700 bucks, hell before the economy went in the crapper you could find them for 500 ish, now they went up, who know?

reguardless, price isnt such a concern here, a 5150 is 600ish, while a used 
e530 is around 450 ish and a peavey 50/50 for around 250ish. 

so what do you guys think? 

(ps. i dont really care if its 5150 or 6505, but is there really much of a difference?)


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## Randy (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm going to vote for the e530, just because it's a little more "sterile" in the way I think of death metal tone. Like you said, Necrophagist.

The 5150, etc. does all high gain applications well, but it's more of a 'core style gain IMO.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 29, 2008)

does anyone know what the distortion channel on the e530 is related to in their other amps? like is it similar to a fire/powerball's channel, or an invader, ect...

i just got done reading a thread where practically everyone agreed the 5150 was better because it sounded more organic and didnt get swallowed up in a band setting next to a fireball or powerball



Randy said:


> I'm going to vote for the e530, just because it's a little more "sterile" in the way I think of death metal tone. Like you said, Necrophagist.
> 
> The 5150, etc. does all high gain applications well, but it's more of a 'core style gain IMO.




i was thinking that the engl's steril sound might be better, but after reading that other thread, i'm not so sure


i'm also starting to lean toward the 5150 because i LOVED carcass on heartwork and i know that was 5150's


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## Sepultorture (Oct 29, 2008)

fuck when will this damn Invader 100 show up so i can AB this fucker with some other amps

I ALSO WANTS ENGLS


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 29, 2008)

try em out if you can mate.
i own a 5150 and play mainly syl, log, kse and pretty much metal in general.
it can handle most styles of metal every well, but imo it doesnt do death metal too well. im of the opinion that it is indeed a bit "organic" for it.that being said, possibly the best "sterile" tone i have heard is a randall cyclone. its soldid state, but fuck man. HUGE. and the eq is very versatile


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 29, 2008)

Thrashmanzac said:


> that being said, possibly the best "sterile" tone i have heard is a randall cyclone. its soldid state, but fuck man. HUGE. and the eq is very versatile



funny you mention that, i knew a guy i played with that had a cyclone with a vader into it and it sounded unbelievable for metal.


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 29, 2008)

yeah its got fucking unbeleiveable tone, but i think you can hear the sort of, well sterile is probly not the word, but less organic and a tube amp sound. imo its not a bad thing tyhough, i agree it sounds unbeleiveable


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 29, 2008)

it was crisp, almost like it was gated all the time, but it wasnt and it didnt cut the sustain. my only beef is that i dont see many around and they are usually overpriced


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## warlock7strEMG (Oct 30, 2008)

id go with the 5150. i find they do death metal beautifully. tons of gain and while not Engl tight, they are plenty tight enough and much tighter than a recto. thei 5150's very dry, raw distortion cuts through the mix very well


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## zimbloth (Oct 30, 2008)

5150.


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## Brord (Oct 30, 2008)

5150, IMO Engl is not dry sounding at all


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## Thrashmanzac (Oct 30, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> it was crisp, almost like it was gated all the time, but it wasnt and it didnt cut the sustain. my only beef is that i dont see many around and they are usually overpriced



yeah at my local they retail for 1999, but priced at 1399 or 1299 i think.
aussie amp prices suck.


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## TimSE (Oct 30, 2008)

hmm if u use cleans EVER even if its not in ur band or in any situation cus the 5150 basically doesnt have a clean channel.

It does but its so gainy i would never call it clean. 

My mate has a 6505+ which is basicaly the 5150 but with a "better" clean channel ... if the clean channel on that thing was horrific, id hate to think wat the 5150 is like!

As for the engl i got a E530 yesterday and i love it! 
get the E530! tis by far the more usable amp. the clean is crisp and clear as crystal and the gain channel is pure tone! so much u can do with it.
even tho the E530 is pretty much the entry level ENGL amp it will still get them BRUTAL tones (necrophagist etc)

Get the engl hands down mate!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 30, 2008)

5150


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## Randy (Oct 30, 2008)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gear-for-sale-trade-wanted/70546-fs-ft-rack-rig.html#post1259647

It's a sign.


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## budda (Oct 30, 2008)

5150.

but what about a retube, run the gain LOW on your mesa, diode rectification, and boost it.

that should get pretty tight, no?


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## S-O (Oct 30, 2008)

Bloodbath used a 5150 :O and that tone is pretty tight, or "sterile" as you have called it.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 30, 2008)

budda said:


> 5150.
> 
> but what about a retube, run the gain LOW on your mesa, diode rectification, and boost it.
> 
> that should get pretty tight, no?



new tubes, gain is at about 1 oclock, anyless and it doesnt have enough for my taste, and rectoverbs dont have the diode rectification option, and it is boosted.

its like bulb said in his clip with his new rectoverb, dejenty as hell, but not ideal for death metal, a bit too much sag on the distortion



i think the 5150 is the way to go here, now if i can just find one for a reasonable price


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## Meldville (Oct 30, 2008)

A month ago I would've sold you a block letter 5150 for 600  Just keep an eye out, at least around here there are always several for cheap on craigslist and in shops.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 30, 2008)

is there any differance between the 5150 and the 5150II?


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## budda (Oct 30, 2008)

yup. seperate EQ's and the crunch mode on clean channel is footswitachable on the 5150II.

you can mod a 5150 to have the FS'able crunch mode too though.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 30, 2008)

^but thats it?


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## Meldville (Oct 30, 2008)

Also, the EQ on the 5150II is active.

IMO the II is a bit brighter than the original, but also cuts a little harder. It's also slightly higher gain, and has one more preamp tube than the original.


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## sepherus (Oct 30, 2008)

The 5150ii/6505+ is actually a little less gain than the original. Gain at 5 on the original is about 7 on the ii/+. 

EQ is NOT active. the 5150 series in general use an EQ that is more powerful than most passive EQs. I think it is cathode based, instead of plate based by what i remember hearing about it. The ii/+ is a bit brighter though, I personally prefer it. The original has more growl though. It's not THAT big of a difference. both can be modded easily to sound like the other.

The extra tube is actualy linked to the power circuit. I forget what the actual function is though. Most tube amps have at least 1 preamp tube linked in the power circuit though.

The original has a fixed bias that is set really really really cold and causes some crosover distortion in the power section. It completely kills any chance of having a "clean sound" and takes out some of the deffinition while adding some fizz on the distorted sound. can be fixed with a cheap mod. usually about $80 for a tech to do.

The ii/+ version has an adjustable bias, but it still runs in the cold range. Hoeever not nearly as bad. If you are running 6l6s you can pretty much leave it cranked to full and have nothing to worry about. There is a mod to make it fully adjustable, runs about the same as the original.
FJA Mods He specializes in 5150 mods. Awesome dude also. 

It does death metal quite well also. Just keep the resonance down, and run a boost. It likes tube screamers alot, and i personally really like the HM-2 with it if i want a bit more old school swedish tone. 

What do you have for a cab? For straight DM i would personally reccomend some thing with k100s, or even t75s. the added sizzle in the highs and the slight scoop really make it sound mean and brutal.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 30, 2008)

thanks for the info jason! as for my cab, i'm running a 4x12 full of swamp thangs, the are very bass heavy so i'm thinking that it might tame a bit of the shrillness of the 5150.
my next endevour is to get a new cabinet, so at that point i can buy to suit


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## sepherus (Oct 30, 2008)

I run mine through a recto 412, also very bassy. I am going to be ordering an avatar k100 cab soon. Next month or so.

I wouldn't call the 5150 shrill at all. Its actually a bit on the darker side unless you crank the treble and presence. On its own, it's kinda raunchy. With the right boost though, it would probably be exactly what you want, even with the swampthangs.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 30, 2008)

hows that deliverance by the way, i saw a few around but have never actually heard one


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## budda (Oct 30, 2008)

why buy a new cab when you just need to buy new speakers?


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## 7slinger (Oct 31, 2008)

I had an e530, now playin a 5150...the e530 is definitely the more versatile choice, and boosted well with a TS. It's going to give you the dryer, less bass-heavy sound of the 2. 5150 is not an overly bright amp at all, it's got some big low end, kind of like a dual recto, which I had before the e530...round and round we go


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 31, 2008)

because, although i have a solid, well built old peavey cab, some asshole cut a hole about 4inx4in in the bottom. it was used when i got it and didnt notice it for a long time. i dont often look at the bottom of my cabs 

anyway, i screwed a peice of board and put weather stripping round the perimeter to make sure there is no air flow, but while the cab sounds pretty killer, its a bit ghetto. On top of that, i'v never owend a nice cab, only nice guitars and amps.


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## budda (Oct 31, 2008)

if a cab is solidly built and sounds good, then i consider it good to go .

my slant gets more ghetto every time it leaves the house  - but i gave it a metal upgrade, it has an ss.org sticker on it now.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 31, 2008)

well, you know the only thing that gives you more tone than blinky lights is a ss.org sticker


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## sepherus (Oct 31, 2008)

the deliverance rules. Its really versatile. The 2 casading gain controls are possibly the BEST thing on an amp ever! I wish it had a touch more gain in the second control at some times when i want to run the first one really low for a crisper tone w/o a boost, but i live. It does thick modern tones and snappier older type sounds, get really saturated but retains every hint of clarity it does when you dial it in as a clean sound. The cleans and OD are also second to none. Next amp is probably a Sig: X for me, as it is this times 3 with a loop.

I just got my mic and stand back so i should be able to post some clips in a week or 2 when i have some free time.


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## Ketzer (Nov 1, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> well, you know the only thing that gives you more tone than blinky lights is a ss.org sticker



Hm. My 5150II has no blinky lights, I may have to invest in one of these stickers. Where would one be found?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 1, 2008)

Ketzer said:


> Hm. My 5150II has no blinky lights, I may have to invest in one of these stickers. Where would one be found?



you sure you can handle that boost in tone?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 1, 2008)

sepherus said:


> I just got my mic and stand back so i should be able to post some clips in a week or 2 when i have some free time.



that would be awesome, i just always hear such good things about VHT, and that sig X looks frickin killer


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## budda (Nov 1, 2008)

I've played the D60, damn fine amp.

odd part is, the way i have my JSX set up and dialed in that D60, i could barely tell them apart. the VHT had more clarity by an audible fraction, but other then that - pretty damn close.

the D60 is a good time though. built like a tank, too! tons of gain, very tight and focused. but if you want a more raw, aggressive tone? look elsewhere.


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## sepherus (Nov 1, 2008)

budda said:


> I've played the D60, damn fine amp.
> 
> odd part is, the way i have my JSX set up and dialed in that D60, i could barely tell them apart. the VHT had more clarity by an audible fraction, but other then that - pretty damn close.
> 
> the D60 is a good time though. built like a tank, too! tons of gain, very tight and focused. but if you want a more raw, aggressive tone? look elsewhere.



I can believe every word of that. It really easy to get a good useable sound out of, but its a tweakers amp. Just an easy tweakers amp. I've nailed so many different sound, and have made it sound like a more articulate version of my 6505+. The 6505 is still raunchier, and more raw by nature though. How ever the deliverance would serve better with technical work.

I really love the power circuit on it too. 2 kt88s that sing even at low volumes. It really makes me want to do a dual bias (1 pair of kt88 and 1 pair of 6l6 or el34) on the 6505 and get an Engl savage.


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## budda (Nov 1, 2008)

yup, the D60 would be pwn for tech work.

for raw chug riffage, i'd definitely be looking elsewhere. VHT's are very tight, rather dry amps - rawness is not what made the Pittbull famous .

so:
5150: raw, growly, huge.
D60: tight, focused, piledriver.

i think that about sums it up in veeery general terms.


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## winterlover (Nov 1, 2008)

Engl


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## Camer138 (Nov 2, 2008)

someone just posted a heavy clip on harmony central forums you can check out with the e530, sounds pretty damn good

here actually. Clip! ESP, ENGL, Marshall, Superior 2.0 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums


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## renzoip (Dec 1, 2008)

Hey Dude!

I used to have a Peavey 5150 II and I sold it to get a rack system consisting mainly of an Engl E530 Preamp into a Mesa 2:100 Power Amp. The only reason I did this was that I needed that aggressive high gain sounds but with a nice clean and a Solo boost for my bands purposes.

If you are not concerned about cleans of solo boost then go with the 5150. It's an awesome amp. Very raw, dry and aggressive; much easier to use than a rack system. You can nail many other different tones with it if set up and dialed in right.

As for the Engl E530, the distortion is awesome, lot of more usable gain than a 5150 and much more clarity. This pre is definitely not forgiving and it will highlight all your mistakes but will also show off your good playing. I know Necrophagist used to have these in their live racks a while ago. Having an aggressive power amp is crucial to achieve a great metal tone out of this for it will make up for the lack of aggressive bottom end that is sacrificed in favor of clarity. That is why I chose my Mesa 2:100, now I have both aggressiveness and clarity. 

Having owned both I can honestly say that either choice will be great but of course I will take the Engl E530 any time. Hope this help. Good Luck! 

PS: By the way I was told by Derek form Rock Solid Amps that E530 sounds closest to the preamp section of the Engl Savage. I haven't tried a Savage but I take his word for it. That guys does know Engls very well.


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## Alekke (Dec 2, 2008)

I agree with renzoip.

If you want tight, sharp, djenty gain for lot of palm muting go E530,
6505 will give you huge crispy and aggressive sound.

I my self prefer E530 which I have. You can hear it at 
MySpace.com - E.N.D. - Zadar, Dalmatia - Metal / Thrash / Hardcore - www.myspace.com/endzadar
Album teaser. Setup is under photos/recording


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## Sepultorture (Dec 2, 2008)

tight and dry also bring VHT to mind lol


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 2, 2008)

Sepultorture said:


> tight and dry also bring VHT to mind lol



It also brings this girl I knew to mind....


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## Sepultorture (Dec 2, 2008)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It also brings this girl I knew to mind....


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## Fasol (Dec 2, 2008)

This is my Fireball with Engl 2x12 pro (v30) Recorded on my rehersal. Only 4 sec... but you can hear character of the amp.

RapidShare: Easy Filehosting


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## Harry (Dec 2, 2008)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It also brings this girl I knew to mind....


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## renzoip (Dec 5, 2008)

Alekke said:


> I agree with renzoip.
> 
> If you want tight, sharp, djenty gain for lot of palm muting go E530,
> 6505 will give you huge crispy and aggressive sound.
> ...




Hey Alekeke!

Good stuff you got on the myspace. I like the sound you get of of the E530. I've seen your youtube videos. Pretty good as well. Good luck with you band, you guys sound tight!


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## aBagel (Jan 12, 2020)

I think Obscura used the E530 on Cosmogenesis and Omnivium. To me it sounds awesome for technical death metal.


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## sleewell (Jan 12, 2020)

11 year necro bump.... impressive!


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## aBagel (Jan 12, 2020)

sleewell said:


> 11 year necro bump.... impressive!


hell yeah


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