# Death Magnetic - Wave Form Analysis



## Trespass (Sep 11, 2008)

First Leak waveform:







Retail wafeform:


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## ZeroSignal (Sep 11, 2008)

Seriously? 

SERIOUSLY?!


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## Esp Griffyn (Sep 11, 2008)

Cyanide just kicked Nero WaveEditors ass!


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## Trespass (Sep 11, 2008)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Cyanide just kicked Nero WaveEditors ass!



... Its not a good thing...

Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ZeroSignal (Sep 11, 2008)

Trespass said:


> ... Its not a good thing...
> 
> Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That's just what I was thinking. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of and I start losing respect for artists that allow that shit to happen.


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## DDDorian (Sep 11, 2008)

You have to realise that Metallica grew up as an 80s thrash band, so when it comes to modern digital recording they're probably hearing all the benefits and none of the drawbacks. Just because they lucked out on the black album doesn't mean they actually _know_ what a good, modern production should sound like.


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## Esp Griffyn (Sep 11, 2008)

Trespass said:


> ... Its not a good thing...
> 
> Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yeah I know all about the loudness war, but in reality this doesnt sound too bad. That shit spoiled Rush's "Vapour trails" album though, the songs were still top notch I must admit.


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## stuh84 (Sep 11, 2008)

Dynamics FTL


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## TomAwesome (Sep 11, 2008)

Wow. People always joke about solid bars, but hot damn... Did they just throw the compressors out the window and replace them with limiters set to brickwall at 0dB or what?


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## Vision (Sep 11, 2008)

I have no clue what you guys are talking about, and its making me feel really really dumb.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 11, 2008)

Holy shit that is crazy


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## TomAwesome (Sep 11, 2008)

Vision said:


> I have no clue what you guys are talking about, and its making me feel really really dumb.



There are no dynamics. Music is supposed to flow and vary in volume and dynamics. The second picture shows a waveform that is boosted and compressed so heavily that the volume is kept almost entirely consistent at max volume. Even that first waveform is ridiculously loud and compressed, but the "solid bar" waveform is something that is often joked about but rarely actually seen.


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## The Dark Wolf (Sep 12, 2008)

This is what I've been going on about for the longest time, since I first heard this stuff!

I have a really good listening environment at my house, both in terms of monitors and 'phones. And this album was both A) the LOUDEST, and B) the most uber-distortion-compressed album I've ever heard. Easily. Lars' snare just goes BZZZZZTWACKZZZT! Again and again.

It's god-awful. You're saying retail is _worse_?


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## Zepp88 (Sep 12, 2008)

They need to hook up with Flemming Rasmussen again, his production was awesome.


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## The Dark Wolf (Sep 12, 2008)

^


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## ChaNce (Sep 12, 2008)

I have a feeling that we will look back at this album as the high water mark of the Loudness Wars. I don't think anyone ever thought they would see a solid bar. 

Ever.


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## The Dark Wolf (Sep 12, 2008)

This album is almost twice as loud (relatively) as 'Sacrament', from LoG. Itself a new, very compressed album. But it sounds like friggin' the London Philharmonic in comparison! At least from what I've heard.

And I even heard a high quality rip. (320kbps)


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## Scootman1911 (Sep 12, 2008)

Holy mother of god. Please tell me that this isn't true.


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## Variant (Sep 12, 2008)

You guys needed to open this thing up in a waveform editor to figure out it was compressed out to shit? First time I heard the song, it was obvious, even through the fact that radio stations max/flat-line broadcast stuff. The instruments (drums, in particular) have that "held at the ceiling" sound all over it.


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## darren (Sep 12, 2008)

God, that's just awful.


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## MerlinTKD (Sep 12, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> I have a feeling that we will look back at this album as the high water mark of the Loudness Wars.



Makes me want to go listen to "When the Levee Breaks" for all sorts of reasons.


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## Thomas (Sep 12, 2008)

This is just unbelievable. 

One of the most successful and influential bands ever, and they release an album with broken production. This is inexcusable.


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## Harry (Sep 12, 2008)

I already didn't plan to buy this album... this really put the nail in the coffin.
I have literally never seen a solid bar wave form in my life.... it's almost sickening really


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## thesimo (Sep 12, 2008)

that waveform is completely ridiculous. Pretty much makes buying a high end audio system pointless when its already like that.
Not that I was going to buy it anyway but that's just obscene!


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## Metal Ken (Sep 12, 2008)

Thomas said:


> and they release an lbum with broken production



...again.


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## Mr. S (Sep 12, 2008)

wow, thats fucking mad


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## Deschain (Sep 12, 2008)

*runs off in tears*


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## Thomas (Sep 12, 2008)

Re-Mix or Remaster Death Magnetic! - Online Petition


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## Pauly (Sep 12, 2008)

That's hilarious, and not in a positive way.


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## Ror3h (Sep 12, 2008)

I'm not really interested in Metallica's music, let alone all the hype around the "new album" (which to me just sounds like the same old shit they've been doing for years).

But after seeing this thread and people saying that the mix is awful, I had to download it and see for myself.

My God! This is the worst recorded, mixed, and just god damn awful mastering on almost any album I've ever heard. The only stuff I've heard that's worse is stuff from kids who are learning how to mix etc (which of course is perfectly fine for someone like that), but from a professional band, using pro studios, and (supposedly) engineers who know what they're doing? It's just stupid. Even if this were from an unknown band I'd still think this was awful, but from a band as big as Metallica? Well, it just makes me laugh. Anyone in their right mind could record, mix and master something for a tiny budget, and it would still sound far better than this.
/endrant


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## HeavyMetal4Ever (Sep 12, 2008)

New Metallica = ear pain.

My question is, was everyone involved in the production of Death Magnetic completely deaf? 

I just can't believe that ANYONE thinks that it sounds good, but then again, i'm not Rick Rubin. 

I think i'll administer some Carcass to soothe my damaged eardrums. 

Rock on!


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## TimSE (Sep 12, 2008)

what...!?


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## Emperoff (Sep 12, 2008)

Pauly said:


> That's hilarious, and not in a positive way.



Just what I thought, specially about the second pic


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## MerlinTKD (Sep 12, 2008)

Blows me away that Rick Rubin did this, the same guy that did incredible jobs through his career, especially Johnny Cash's American Songs albums. Hard to believe.

Of course, I recognize now that he must have come very close to this on Linkin Park's Minutes to Midnight, as well... I don't think it pushes the envelope quite as badly, but it definitely has that same flat sound and lack of audible dynamics.

And here I thought he was purposefully going for a retro, mono vibe.


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## garthfluff (Sep 12, 2008)

Whats the point in owning audiophile gear when people are starting to put out crap like this?


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## astrocreep (Sep 12, 2008)

How long before we have an underground market in leaked non mastered albums because they actually sound better?!?


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## Tiger (Sep 12, 2008)

As long as Metallica keeps making records people will keep finding linchpins to complain about.


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## Groff (Sep 12, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> This is what I've been going on about for the longest time, since I first heard this stuff!
> 
> I have a really good listening environment at my house, both in terms of monitors and 'phones. And this album was both A) the LOUDEST, and B) the most uber-distortion-compressed album I've ever heard. Easily. Lars' snare just goes BZZZZZTWACKZZZT! Again and again.
> 
> It's god-awful. You're saying retail is _worse_?



It's terrible! I actually enjoyed a lot of songs on the album, but I cringe everytime they hit bit palm mutes, or lars does accents on his snare... Fucking bullshit.



Tiger said:


> As long as Metallica keeps making records people will keep finding linchpins to complain about.



No, you see... I actually like this CD, but the fact that it clips into a muddy distorted mess is absolutely inexcusable.


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## rob_l (Sep 12, 2008)

Too many plug ins and too much time on their hands. Waves MaxxVolume FTL!! Ugghh.

Lars' bass drums have sounded like a wet pillow being smacked with mashed potatoes ever since Justice. Straight downhill on the express train ever since. Power-flush toilet to ShitsBurg.....


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## Tiger (Sep 12, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> No, you see... I actually like this CD, but the fact that it clips into a muddy distorted mess is absolutely inexcusable.



Yea I know, its like being married to an ungrateful wife who complains about the wrong colored Porsche you bought her.

EDIT: actually in Metallica's case its more like the Geo Tracker you bought her, but still.


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## HorseCalledWar (Sep 12, 2008)

I just went out and bought the album - and damn, is it LOUD! I threw on some Annihilator afterwards, and it was about half the volume. It sounds compressed as hell, but the actual songs are really good (IMO), at least.


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## Lee (Sep 12, 2008)

What ever happened to having an album sound good as opposed to being just bloody loud?


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## oompa (Sep 12, 2008)

omg! first album to beat Strapping Young Lad's levels then 

pic of random newer syl song:







and loudness wars suck. for those who dont know, here is what an older recording looks like, this case a track known by everyone, Paranoid by Black Sabbath from 1970:





what you see here is a healthy waveform, one that leaves room for dynamics in volume, you can for example see how after the guitar intro that is kinda low volume, it gets louder as the rest of the band kicks in. the two different pictures the song produces are the two channels (top left, bottom right). as you might know, the guitar intro is only played on the left channel, wich you can see here, the lower graph (right channel) is "quiet".


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## Cancer (Sep 12, 2008)

My bandmate got a leaked copy of this, and I heard it in his car, and while I liked the riffs I remember thinking "this sounds....funny", and I really only listened to it for like ....30 seconds, so I didn't think much of it. Especially considering that it was a leaked copy

Now I get it.

It's on sale for Hot Topic for 5$, but as far as I'm concerned it can stay there. The brief glimmer of hope I had for this album has all been squashed (pun intended). 5 years, millions of dollars in production, god knows how many committee meetings ...for this.

No.


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## The Dark Wolf (Sep 12, 2008)

I knew this was the finished product. I just knew it.

Decent album, but the production. God.


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## D-EJ915 (Sep 12, 2008)

holy shit  that's almost solid


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## the.godfather (Sep 12, 2008)

I'm listening to the album now and I've had to turn down my master volume. And I haven't that in years. It's fucking rediculous. 

The mixing/production in general (volume aside) is plain fucking awful. It's all just one big fuzzy mess in places.


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## lucasreis (Sep 12, 2008)

I also think it´s stupid to make a record that loud...

Now I know why something isn´t right about the sound of this album. The production sucks and my ears get tired when I listen to it. Yeah, they do, even with way heavier and non-accessible stuff I don´t get tired listening to it, but Death Magnetic gets me tired quickly. I could never listen to more than 4 tracks in a row. 

The producers nowadays are stupid.

There is a reason why the VOLUME button exists. We can make the music loud without losing the dynamics just by raising the volume on our stereos and systems. 

Bring FLEMMING RASMUSSEN back Metallica! And use your older distortion.


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## cow 7 sig (Sep 12, 2008)

ok so its not my stereo settings then
on a small positive i like the songs


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 12, 2008)

How is that Metallica can't seem to make a moderately good-sounding album while all those bands on labels like Nuclear Blast can make great-sounding metal albums on budgets that probably wouldn't have covered Metallica's catering bill? Are they all deaf or something?


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## MerlinTKD (Sep 12, 2008)

Ear fatigue is my thought. They probably don't spend a lot of time _really_ listening to other bands' production, and then spend months in-studio hearing the same tracks over and over with only tiny, subtle changes. You get used to hearing it a certain way, it sounds fine.

That's the producer's job, to see the big picture and keep it from getting ridiculous. I seriously fault Rick Rubin for this. 


Re: that SYL waveform... now I understand why I could never get into them. Love those live YouTube videos, but the actual recordings...


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## MF_Kitten (Sep 12, 2008)

i´m all for albums being loud, but removing dynamics in order to achieve loudness? no thanks! 

i like it when it´s loud because the production is great, and the compressor only keeps it from clipping, and nothing else. i always hated it when you listened to an intro obviously hinting at something heavy as fuck, and then the song kicks in, and it´s the same colume as the intro... that totally ruins the point! 

like when i was listening to Korn´s Here To Stay off the Untouchables album on my dad´s stereo... grim-sounding intro, and then there´s the little stop to allow some silence before it all KICKS in. the problem is, it doesen´t KICK in, it just... starts 

i was disappointed when i noticed that. and ever since, i´ve been annoyed by quiet intros leaving to parts that should have been loud and hard-hitting, only to be ruined by being the same damned level!


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## yellowv (Sep 12, 2008)

Not to try and defend Metallica on this issue at all, but perhaps they did this intentionally trying to make it sound amaturish? You would think Rick Rubin would know how to properly produce and mix an album. Especially with a budget like this.


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## oompa (Sep 12, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> i like it when it´s loud because the production is great, and the compressor only keeps it from clipping, and nothing else. i always hated it when you listened to an intro obviously hinting at something heavy as fuck, and then the song kicks in, and it´s the same colume as the intro... that totally ruins the point!


^ 

a perfect example from the same album i took the Syl wavegraph from: if you own the Strapping Young Lad album The New Black, check out track #9, "almost again". the first minute or so its basically clean vocals and average drums and guitars. then at about 1:07 when the push comes, Devin sounds off and Gene starts beating skins, it sounds like someone lowers the volume 

but it could be reverse as well. a perfect example of that is Mr. Bungle's "Chemical Marriage", Track #2 on Disco Volante. this is a track that is on very, very low volume, even compared to the rest of the album. its alot of sneaky melodies while Mike whispers and plays around, then towards the end, at about 2:48 a big fill comes with organ and shit, and the wavegraph on this track is very very tight up until that push, where it peaks to the level of distortion. this makes this song impossible to have on a mixtape cus you barely hear it on normal volume (except for that 3-4 second thing towards the end), but if you edit the file to crank the volume it will distort your ears beyond reparation at the end instead. not even RG fixes the problem :/


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## TomAwesome (Sep 12, 2008)

SYL and Mr. Bungle rock.


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## ChaNce (Sep 12, 2008)

From About the Mastering from metallicabb.com



> RE: Death Magnetic mastering job
> mailed-by sterling-sound.com
> 
> hide details 10:34 AM (44 minutes ago)
> ...



Wasn't crushed in mastering, came to Sterling like that.


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## Vision (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok, I am listening to The Day That Never Comes and I can hear what you guys are talking about, especially towards the end of the song. It is like my stereo is on full volume, but it is only a quarter of the way up. 

Wow, the last 30 seconds are baaaaadddd. I apologize for any comments in any other threads that I made about this album. Still kicks ass, but in an "80's boom box turned all the way up" kinda way.


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 12, 2008)

Also, check out anytime there's heavy palm muting going on. You get this horrible flubbing sound on the low end as it clips. Really annoying. My first attempts at mastering metal tracks loudly turned out like this, and I'm just some guy. No excuse for a major-label release to sound this way. I'm almost done with my first listen, and I like the album quite a bit. Too bad about the sound quality.

The only comparison I can find is Rush's album "Vapor Trails". It was their strongest music in years, but it had the same atrocious over-compression that rendered it almost unlistenable.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 12, 2008)

MerlinTKD said:


> Re: that SYL waveform... now I understand why I could never get into them. Love those live YouTube videos, but the actual recordings...



This is why I can't stand listening to SYL and find Devin Townsends production highly over rated.

It's rediculous how home recordings can sound fuller and more natural than these modern studio productions, we're recording our album in a fucking basement with a PC, Cubase, and cheap mics etc. A full blown modern studio should be able to produce gold, why they feel the need to ruin it by compressing everything ten fold I'll never know.


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## playstopause (Sep 12, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> From About the Mastering from metallicabb.com



Interesting read.


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## ChaNce (Sep 12, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> ...why they feel the need to ruin it by compressing everything ten fold I'll never know.



So that it sounds the best on the radio. Louder = more exciting to the average listener, who will never listen to the album start to end. 

The bad thing is (well, the next bad thing) that radio stations add their own compression so that everything is the same volume song to song to song (in order to deal with variance across albums (ironically).


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 12, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> The bad thing is (well, the next bad thing) that radio stations add their own compression so that everything is the same volume song to song to song (in order to deal with variance across albums (ironically).



That's one sad thing about this. Metallica doesn't need to yell louder to get attention. The entire world of heavy music listeners knows about them and will give any song of theirs full attention when it comes on the radio.

Double the amount of compression is simply going to make it sound worse on the radio.

I'd like to think that the amount of negative attention this is getting will change industry practices, but that's probably optimistic.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Sep 13, 2008)

Ugh... I hate, *HATE* this!!
I'd rather have something sound good and be mixed well while being slightly quieter.
In fact dynamics used to be a big part of music. The Rite Of Spring goes from ppp(play very very quiet) to fff(play as loud as possible). I don't expect most metal to do this, but dynamics make a track breathe. I can hardly listen to Slayer's 'Christ Illusion' cause it's soo compressed, granted it's not THIS bad but it tires my ears out really fast.


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## damigu (Sep 13, 2008)

what do you expect when rick rubin is involved?
the guy isn't even qualified to use the light switch in a studio, let alone anything sound related. he should have been a promoter and not a producer (seriously, all of the accomplishments he's hailed for are A&R/promotional things).
if not for him, slayer's guitar tone would probably be good instead of that sloppy midrange crap (i'm a huge fan of slayer's music, but their overall recorded sound is just terrible and ear numbing).


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## abyssalservant (Sep 13, 2008)

Ohhh . . . ewww . . . I don't even mix fucking NOISE like that.
Eww.
Ewww.
Good-sounding Suffocation (from Despise the Sun) and bad-sounding Suffocation (from the Reincremation demo) below. The bad sound is lack of funding, I know, but look how it shows up without even the loudness wars issue: less dynamics. And when you take the dynamics out of something it makes it sound bad even if you had quality recordings to start with! It makes it sound like that lacking-in-dynamics shitty recording in spirit if not in actual tone.






Edit: I'm doing really well today! I accidentally posted this as AYB (he'd been on SS with this computer last) and then I accidentally doubleposted it when I reposted it! Wow.


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## stuh84 (Sep 13, 2008)

I wish everyone would stop blaming Rubin. Rubin does nothing except sit there and say "make this better" or "change this".

The producers role is to make music more commercially viable, or filter out the crap that bands throw in sometimes for self serving interests. Its the sound/mix engineers who are to blame here.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 13, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> I wish everyone would stop blaming Rubin. Rubin does nothing except sit there and say "make this better" or "change this".
> 
> The producers role is to make music more commercially viable, or filter out the crap that bands throw in sometimes for self serving interests. Its the sound/mix engineers who are to blame here.


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## damigu (Sep 13, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> I wish everyone would stop blaming Rubin. Rubin does nothing except sit there and say "make this better" or "change this".
> 
> The producers role is to make music more commercially viable, or filter out the crap that bands throw in sometimes for self serving interests. Its the sound/mix engineers who are to blame here.



oh, there's no doubt that other people (the mix as well as mastering engineers) are also responsible for this travesty.

but i get the impression that rick rubin must be a hands-on producer, because i can't explain why SO MUCH with his name on it sounds badly recorded. it's an awfully huge coincidence if it's not directly attributable to him.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 13, 2008)

Rick Rubin is actually notoriously hands off, it's probably the people he surrounds himself with. I do think that he should have stepped in and said "Yo, wtf you guys doin?"


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## forelander (Sep 13, 2008)

I just looked at a bunch of songs from many bands and many years in Adobe, they pretty much all looked like that.


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## stuh84 (Sep 13, 2008)

damigu said:


> oh, there's no doubt that other people (the mix as well as mastering engineers) are also responsible for this travesty.
> 
> but i get the impression that rick rubin must be a hands-on producer, because i can't explain why SO MUCH with his name on it sounds badly recorded. it's an awfully huge coincidence if it's not directly attributable to him.



BLABBERMOUTH.NET - KIRK HAMMETT: The Great Thing About Working With Producer RICK RUBIN Is He's Never Around

Also, as mentioned in this thread, it was already brickwalled before it reached the mastering engineers, so they can't be blamed in this case either.

Someone obviously just went MOAR when it came to adding a limiter to every single track by the sounds of it.


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## abyssalservant (Sep 13, 2008)

Remembering James' glee in his triple-tracked guitars on Metallica, I can't IMAGINE who I might point at . . .
*ahem*
And I've been looking at all sorts of stuff for the waveforms since I first looked at the thread and NOTHING that sounds good looks like that. This is not a difficult concept.


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## damigu (Sep 13, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Rick Rubin is actually notoriously hands off, it's probably the people he surrounds himself with. I do think that he should have stepped in and said "Yo, wtf you guys doin?"



well, then i still blame him for the terrible (and for slayer's terrible guitar tone). 

maybe if he'd show up then he could say "it sounds like ass! fix it!"

as i said, he should have been an A&R guy or promoter. that's what he does best.


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## Harry (Sep 13, 2008)

On some other forums I go on, some dude mentioned he encoded his copy of Death Magnetic to 192kbps mp3, and he said that even at moderate volumes it was clipping to the point where he couldn't bear to listen to it.


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## Uber Mega (Sep 13, 2008)

HughesJB4 said:


> On some other forums I go on, some dude mentioned he encoded his copy of Death Magnetic to 192kbps mp3, and he said that even at moderate volumes it was clipping to the point where he couldn't bear to listen to it.



Yeah, it doesn't really mater about the volume level, even at a barely audible volume level you'll hear it because the clipping is actually present in the stereo mastered file. It's beyond belief really.


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## damigu (Sep 13, 2008)

clipping is a problem with the recording itself, not of the stereo it is played back on.
recordings only have so much headroom. once that is exceeded (which happens all too often in rock and metal recordings these days), the samples get clipped (a very harsh hard limit--which doesn't go beyond the max headroom--results in what is essentially clipping, too). it doesn't matter whether you play it back on a $10,000 audiophile stereo or a $50 boombox, it'll sound loud and the clipping will be apparent even at low volume.
and that's exactly the problem with engineering music to be "loud"--which is what all of the record company execs and radio stations want and expect.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 13, 2008)

I got the CD yesterday, some good songs on it, but god damn it hurts to listen to 

And I'd like to add a comment about the bass tracks, they're definetely there, up in the mix, but they have no breathing room what-so-ever and just get swallowed up in everything else.

Greg Fiddelman =


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## MerlinTKD (Sep 13, 2008)

Kirk Hammett said:


> Of course, Rick was there for part of that process &#8212; when we recorded drums and vocals &#8212; but the fact that we were isolated in our studio, working on the songs ourselves, made a big difference, because it kept our sound pure.



Hmmm... maybe it was right to blame the band, after all. Especially since I'd be damned if I'd hire _anyone_, at _any_ price, and be okay with them 'never being there'.  But it sounds like it was just them and the engineers for all of the guitar recording. And Lars' snare is as obnoxious as ever - that's too consistent to possibly be anyone's fault but his own.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 13, 2008)

That's how Rubin _works_ though, I'd really be interested in seeing video of the recording of this album because he's been behind some great stuff, and most bands seem to like him.


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## Harry (Sep 14, 2008)

Well, a dude I know that bought Death Magnetic recently used the audio gain feature on Winamp, and found the album gain was -13.20, but he said he had some albums that even exceeded -14.... I can only imagine how scary -14 must be.


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## Trespass (Sep 14, 2008)

This is why I listen to classical music, flac ripped.

I got Scriabin performed by some no-name guy, and it was so joltingly compressed compared to everything else. But even then, that compression was about what a modern rock song has in its compression.


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## forelander (Sep 14, 2008)

HughesJB4 said:


> Well, a dude I know that bought Death Magnetic recently used the audio gain feature on Winamp, and found the album gain was -13.20, but he said he had some albums that even exceeded -14.... I can only imagine how scary -14 must be.



A gain of -14 is less than a gain of -13.2, assuming a dB scale. Something with a gain of -14 should be less scary than something with -13.2, numbers closer to 0 should be louder.


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## Harry (Sep 14, 2008)

forelander said:


> A gain of -14 is less than a gain of -13.2, assuming a dB scale. Something with a gain of -14 should be less scary than something with -13.2, numbers closer to 0 should be louder.


 
I asked him about it, and he said with whatever he was using, it was the reverse. Closer to 0 was less compressed, and futher away from 0, more compressed.


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## forelander (Sep 14, 2008)

:raiseoneeyebrowemoticon: How odd.


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## Harry (Sep 14, 2008)

^Yeah I know.
My biggest shock was finding out it wasn't the most compressed album ever, considering the solid bar wave form and all


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## forelander (Sep 14, 2008)

Load the songs for anything from the last few years, they almost all look like that. I don't think Metallica's the first band to do it, they're copping more shit for it though.


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## atimoc (Sep 14, 2008)

Straying offtopic here, but this picture cracked me up


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 14, 2008)

I really like the album, so I guess I shouldn't be laughing...


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## Emperoff (Sep 14, 2008)

atimoc said:


> Straying offtopic here, but this picture cracked me up



AAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


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## Espaul (Sep 14, 2008)

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time. 

We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.

In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.


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## Groff (Sep 14, 2008)

Espaul said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.
> 
> We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.
> 
> In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.



Opeth use a lot of dynamics and ambience.


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## The Dark Wolf (Sep 14, 2008)

^ Yep.


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## damigu (Sep 14, 2008)

Espaul said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.
> 
> We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.
> 
> In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.



if all you're talking about are the guitar tracks, then you're sort of right (though every prog metal band i listen to does incorporate various volume levels, like opeth and theatre of tragedy).

but there's more to an album than just guitar tracks. when you mix bass, guitar, drums and vocals, each has different volume levels that are time dependent so the final mix should *NOT* have a shape with a near-constant peak level.
for example, when looking at a song's waveform, you should be able to see transients where the kick and snare drums are. they should be immediately apparent. if the volume level of the mix is the same between drum hits as during drum hits, then something is very wrong.

that aside, there's also the peak-to-RMS ratio to consider. the lower that ratio is, the more squashed the sound becomes (this is the basis of compression, after-all). t's an effect that can be used well for an individual instrument/vocal track here or there, but a final mix with a low peak-ro-RMS ratio just has an ear-dulling sound.


----------



## abyssalservant (Sep 14, 2008)

At the very least there should be little peaks when you hit the drums, if not when you hit a muted chord - it's not a question of different volume levels in different parts of the song as much as the difference between instruments having rhythmic impact and being softened into a blur. Metal demands that kind of dynamic.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, what the fuck is "Death Magnetic" supposed to mean anyway? It sounds fucking stupid.


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## dtrax (Sep 14, 2008)

MerlinTKD said:


> That's the producer's job, to see the big picture and keep it from getting ridiculous. I seriously fault Rick Rubin for this.



Don't be so quick to point the finger. I used to be a full time engineer, and most times the producers/engineers are pressured from labels (or the artist, depending how much creative control they have) to make records that are louder than the competition. The guys making the recordings know better, but it's the execs that think louder means better.


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## TonalArchitect (Sep 14, 2008)

Espaul said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.
> 
> We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.
> 
> In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.




To an extent I agree. Metal will rarely have jumps in dynamics like a Stravinsky piece. But then again, when only one guitar is playing a riff and then the rest of the band joins, there should be a pretty big increase in volume. If there's not, it won't be effective.


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## petereanima (Sep 15, 2008)

holy shit, thats ridiculous!!

i had the album in the player the whole weekend and gve it several shots, i really like it songwise, but the production just kills it.


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## Toshiro (Sep 15, 2008)

Trespass said:


> First Leak waveform:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Vs "I Walk Alone" from the new IE:





Metal needs dynamics!


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## yellowv (Sep 15, 2008)

Every waveform I see is Cyanide. On the album the 3 pre released tracks sound the worst and have the most clipping IMO. Has anyone seen waveforms for any other songs?


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## budda (Sep 15, 2008)

dtrax said:


> Don't be so quick to point the finger. I used to be a full time engineer, and most times the producers/engineers are pressured from labels (or the artist, depending how much creative control they have) to make records that are louder than the competition. The guys making the recordings know better, but it's the execs that think louder means better.



I think Dtrax is the only guy to point this out so far, which is a damn shame - you guys should be aware of this, being musicans who record int he basement and read articles on home recording lol.

i forget where i read the article, but it was about rush's "vapor trails" and the terrible compression and all the rest... and the music was awesome.

so what can you do? listen to the smaller bands who get it done right, maybe? i honestly dont know.

a solid bar? damn. and i also hate when you hear a build-up, but things dont get louder at the breakdown/riff. if someone goes from singing to screaming, you'd think it'd get louder - it sure as hell does in the real world 

all that said, i have no intentions of buying this CD.


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## damigu (Sep 15, 2008)

budda said:


> i forget where i read the article, but it was about rush's "vapor trails" and the terrible compression and all the rest... and the music was awesome.



probably rip rowan's article on the loudness wars from a few years ago. he used various rush albums as examples of both good (the earlier albums) and bad (vapor trails) production.

his own album "rhythm/pleasure" (chill/downtempo electronic) is very well engineered, not surprisingly. for the most part it's good music, too, except in a few places it borders a little close to easy listening for my taste.
but it's exactly what record companies wouldn't like, because it's "too quiet"--the levels are comparable to albums from the 80's. probably the only album of primarily electronic instruments i have with levels like that!


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## oompa (Sep 15, 2008)

HughesJB4 said:


> I asked him about it, and he said with whatever he was using, it was the reverse. Closer to 0 was less compressed, and futher away from 0, more compressed.



yep this is right. it doesnt actually show you the dB level of the song, but here's how it works:

a sorta "mutually agreed" level of volume was set years back (dont remember when.. maybe the 80s or so) by a very proffessional bunch of selected musicians and producers etc. gathered to decide what volume sounded best. they agreed on 89dB i think, and after that everyone recorded their album around that level. 

after a while pop albums started pushing the limit because for a good while radiostations didnt bother to change the volume much, so in order to be louder than the previous dude they slowly started to increase the volume. now various features like the gain addition you mentioned checks the dB of the track and then adds/removes volume to make every song sound at equal volume. 

what your program does is to show you how much it needs to add/subtract. i assume the winamp level is set to 89dB, so if the track shows as -13dB, it means it is recorded at 102dB and the program will subtract 13dB when playing it  most albums today (i'd say 99%) is recorded, on average, above 89dB.

Meshuggah's Destroy Erase Improve has a good example of the opposite tho, if analyzed per-track. most of the tracks shows an even need for about -8dB adjustment, (Future Breed Machine lies 8,37dB above 89dB). all but the slow track, #6 - Acrid Placidity, wich is much lower than the rest of the album, would actuallly need +1,37dB. (meaning its recorded with 87,63dB).


----------



## oompa (Sep 15, 2008)

yellowv said:


> Every waveform I see is Cyanide. On the album the 3 pre released tracks sound the worst and have the most clipping IMO. Has anyone seen waveforms for any other songs?



i just checked all of them for you, and sad to say every single track looks more or less exactly like cyanide except for "The Unforgiven III", wich, by any standard is a true clipping overcompressed laughable disaster, but on this album qualifies as having "dynamics" (it has curves here and there, while ~40% of the song in two blocks are fully overcompressed).

i even found a song that was worse by a slight (the only possible) margin: 

i present to you:

the Judas Kiss


----------



## playstopause (Sep 15, 2008)

So... Any of you guys signed the online petitions for the re-mastering of DM?


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## Groff (Sep 15, 2008)

playstopause said:


> So... Any of you guys signed the online petitions for the re-mastering of DM?



I would, because it would certainly make the album much better.

...But want to know how many people actually care about online pettitions? Noone... So I doubt it'll work.


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## Mattayus (Sep 15, 2008)

playstopause said:


> So... Any of you guys signed the online petitions for the re-mastering of DM?



No, and I think the petition is a fuckin ridiculous idea. It's like releasing something, and then getting everyone petitioning saying "no, i don't like that riff, RE-WRITE THAT FUCKIN SONG, JUST FOR ME!". It's the sound of the album, it's not like they did it by accident, they obviously WANTED it to sound like this for whatever reason. Therefore, leave it, they won't change it no matter how many petitions are thrown at their Gucci clad feet.


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## Ror3h (Sep 15, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> No, and I think the petition is a fuckin ridiculous idea. It's like releasing something, and then getting everyone petitioning saying "no, i don't like that riff, RE-WRITE THAT FUCKIN SONG, JUST FOR ME!". It's the sound of the album, it's not like they did it by accident, they obviously WANTED it to sound like this for whatever reason. Therefore, leave it, they won't change it no matter how many petitions are thrown at their Gucci clad feet.



Plus, as an aside, re-mastering it would make no difference, as someone posted above, it was brickwalled like this in the mixing stage, so if anything it needs to be remixed completely. Personally I'd go all the way and re-record it though, as it sounds like it's been done by a 15 year old in their bedroom with a cracked copy of cubase or something.


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## Scootman1911 (Sep 15, 2008)

So I listened to Death Magnetic and the songs are pretty good but the compression just sounds terrible! It clips so much and makes it annoying to listen to.


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## Daemoniac (Sep 15, 2008)

the only band ive ever heard who is excused from that brick wall of clipped, compressed badness is Terrorfakt... Because they make noise... distorted noise.. and thats why i love them0. 

Metallica on teh other hand, do not make noise. They make music. At least they did... 

I wish i could kick them for that.



oompa said:


> i just checked all of them for you, and sad to say every single track looks more or less exactly like cyanide except for "The Unforgiven III", wich, by any standard is a true clipping overcompressed laughable disaster, but on this album qualifies as having "dynamics" (it has curves here and there, while ~40% of the song in two blocks are fully overcompressed).
> 
> i even found a song that was worse by a slight (the only possible) margin:
> 
> ...


----------



## damigu (Sep 15, 2008)

playstopause said:


> So... Any of you guys signed the online petitions for the re-mastering of DM?



if the music were good, i might care to do that.
unfortunately, it just sounds like a collection of riffs and not cohesive songs.
so the fact that it's poorly engineered only makes it worse still to my ears. 

and what is up with the overuse of pitch correction on james' voice? every sustained note of his sounds like it should be part of a cher dance hit.


----------



## Vision (Sep 15, 2008)

I was working out this morning and listening to DM again, then I got tired of it and cranked up some AJFA... wouldnt you know it... same distorted clipping sound. Production is WAY worse on AJFA too... drums are horrible, no bass, sudden solo jolting in, and max volume on James' guitar. Doesn't change the fact that its still a great album, even after all these years. 

Wonder where we will be in 20 years with DM...


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## Scootman1911 (Sep 16, 2008)

I actually realized that too. I noticed it a while ago but didn't know what the clipping was from. It's so hard to play along to One because first of all, it's slightly out of tune and near the end it clips so much I just have to turn it off. But it's still an amazing song.


----------



## Shawn (Sep 16, 2008)

My drummer picked this up a few days ago and we listened to it a couple times. I didn't like it at first but after listening to it the second time, some of it is actually not all that bad.


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## Jeff (Sep 16, 2008)

Kinda OT, but I've listened to DM 3 times straight through now, and I love it. Really, it's an awesome CD, and a return to form for the guys, IMO. To me it's like a mix of AJFA-era with the Load era. Very cool.


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## Pauly (Sep 16, 2008)

Cos it was mentioned:

Modern Music is Losing Something by Darren Monson

also



I'm going to order the CD on Amazon later, along with some other bits and bobs.


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## Vairocarnal (Sep 16, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Rick Rubin is actually notoriously hands off, it's probably the people he surrounds himself with. I do think that he should have stepped in and said "Yo, wtf you guys doin?"



From what I heard (from the Chili peps vocalist) he spends more time on the couch "absorbing" the music than tweaking/perfecting it...in other words sleeping.


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## stux (Sep 16, 2008)

dtrax said:


> Don't be so quick to point the finger. I used to be a full time engineer, and most times the producers/engineers are pressured from labels (or the artist, depending how much creative control they have) to make records that are louder than the competition. The guys making the recordings know better, but it's the execs that think louder means better.



Going to second this. But even then, if the mix engineer DOES fuck it up, its still the producers fault at the end if he hasn't made him fix it. The producer is in charge of the whole product and is the guy who should be stopping exactly this kind of thing from happening.


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## 7thwave (Sep 16, 2008)

Thought you guys might like to know that there is an alternate version of the album that is ripped from the new guitar hero, its a different mix and isn't harshly compressed sounds much much better.

It can be found in a bay where pirates hang out.


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## thadood (Sep 16, 2008)

Yup.


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## MerlinTKD (Sep 16, 2008)

thadood said:


> Yup.




WHOA!


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## Thomas (Sep 17, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> No, and I think the petition is a fuckin ridiculous idea. It's like releasing something, and then getting everyone petitioning saying "no, i don't like that riff, RE-WRITE THAT FUCKIN SONG, JUST FOR ME!". It's the sound of the album, it's not like they did it by accident, they obviously WANTED it to sound like this for whatever reason. Therefore, leave it, they won't change it no matter how many petitions are thrown at their Gucci clad feet.


You are completely missing the point. This has NOTHING to do with music and EVERYTHING to do with the production, which the band isn't significantly involved in. Also, the Guitar Hero edition of the album (whatever that means) doesn't suffer from the same problem. This supports my theory that the mastering process is where everything went wrong. I doubt they would remix the entire album just for a video game.

Clipping on an album, one that you pay money for, is UNACCEPTABLE. Everyone who bought it deserves a full refund.

For anyone interested in the petition, it can be found here: Re-Mix or Remaster Death Magnetic!.-.Online Petition


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## DDDorian (Sep 17, 2008)

I can't be arsed going through all twelve pages of this thread, but has anyone considered that maybe the excessive clipping has more to do with the quality of the leak than anything else? I mean, if the clipping in the Guitar Hero version is so noticably reduced then maybe the album version will be as well. Odds are the high-bitrate leak is just 128kb mp3s that have been upcoded or something. Then again, what do I know.


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## petereanima (Sep 17, 2008)

DDDorian said:


> I can't be arsed going through all twelve pages of this thread, but has anyone considered that maybe the excessive clipping has more to do with the quality of the leak than anything else? I mean, if the clipping in the Guitar Hero version is so noticably reduced then maybe the album version will be as well. Odds are the high-bitrate leak is just 128kb mp3s that have been upcoded or something. Then again, what do I know.



i have the original album and it clips like a mofo. really.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 17, 2008)

petereanima said:


> i have the original album and it clips like a mofo. really.



Yep, all over the place, even the vocals clip.


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## DDDorian (Sep 17, 2008)

petereanima said:


> i have the original album and it clips like a mofo. really.



Hmm, well in that case I'll echo what I (probably) said before - the result of a bunch of guys who grew up as 80s thrashers that hear all the improvements of such hot digital recordings and don't notice the drawbacks. That or they're just old and don't really care anymore, but I'm probably in the minority on that one.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 17, 2008)

The good news is, there are solid songs on the album, so I won't complain too much.


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## petereanima (Sep 17, 2008)

true, meanwhile i REALLY like the record songwise. the only thing i complain is the clipping, because it kills the joy of listening, in moments when i try to "drift" away while listening, i immediately get slapped in the face by some FZZZFZZZZZZZZ...


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## Deschain (Sep 17, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> No, and I think the petition is a fuckin ridiculous idea. It's like releasing something, and then getting everyone petitioning saying "no, i don't like that riff, RE-WRITE THAT FUCKIN SONG, JUST FOR ME!". It's the sound of the album, it's not like they did it by accident, they obviously WANTED it to sound like this for whatever reason. Therefore, leave it, they won't change it no matter how many petitions are thrown at their Gucci clad feet.


----------



## Zepp88 (Sep 17, 2008)

petereanima said:


> true, meanwhile i REALLY like the record songwise. the only thing i complain is the clipping, because it kills the joy of listening, in moments when i try to "drift" away while listening, i immediately get slapped in the face by some FZZZFZZZZZZZZ...



I noticed that too, the immense noise is so intense, you can't ignore the album 

I wouldn't recommend listening to it before mixing.


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## RedSkull (Sep 17, 2008)

there is a GH3 version out there, I took it and made it better

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Enjoy the SOUNDS IMPROVEMENTS

- Channels Swap Back in Place
- Added some Treble EQ
- Raised the db a little
- Applied Filter to dimish just a little the drum presence
- A little touch of compression to ajust the bass presence
- Track Volume Normalizing
- NO FREAKING CLIPPING (even if TDTNC is a very ''hot'' track at some place)

you can also check for 
Board Message


----------



## Vision (Sep 17, 2008)

Thomas said:


> You are completely missing the point. This has NOTHING to do with music and EVERYTHING to do with the production, which the band isn't significantly involved in. Also, the Guitar Hero edition of the album (whatever that means) doesn't suffer from the same problem. This supports my theory that the mastering process is where everything went wrong. I doubt they would remix the entire album just for a video game.
> 
> Clipping on an album, one that you pay money for, is UNACCEPTABLE. Everyone who bought it deserves a full refund.
> 
> For anyone interested in the petition, it can be found here: Re-Mix or Remaster Death Magnetic!.-.Online Petition



Proof that no one reads online petitions: Mothers Against Maddox (MAM)


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## WanTeD (Sep 17, 2008)

There 2 torrent rips from Guitar Hero 3.

One is an mp3 rip, and the other is a flac rip. I suggest you get the flac rip since it is a losseless compression.

I got it and it SOUNDS GREAT!


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## RedSkull (Sep 17, 2008)

WanTeD said:


> There 2 torrent rips from Guitar Hero 3.
> 
> One is an mp3 rip, and the other is a flac rip. I suggest you get the flac rip since it is a losseless compression.
> 
> I got it and it SOUNDS GREAT!




get mine with sound improved, it's even better

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service


----------



## Groff (Sep 17, 2008)

WanTeD said:


> There 2 torrent rips from Guitar Hero 3.
> 
> One is an mp3 rip, and the other is a flac rip. I suggest you get the flac rip since it is a losseless compression.
> 
> I got it and it SOUNDS GREAT!



 Wow... That's a shit ton better! It's still a litty hairy in some spots (Like at the end of The Day that Never Comes). But other than that... Awesome!



RedSkull said:


> get mine with sound improved, it's even better
> 
> MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service



You might want to delete that link... Like... Right now.... Links to leaked material is looked down upon.


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## MrJoe815 (Sep 26, 2008)

ok....


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## Pauly (Sep 26, 2008)

Wahey. Great job but yeah take it off and save if for PM's.


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## Moloch (Sep 27, 2008)

I just got the album just because I read how bad the production was.. wow..., listening to the first track right now, tons of audible clipping!!!1111
This has the worst production I've never heard as far as clipping/dynamics go.
Sure Devin Townsend compresses his stuff to hell, but atleast it doesnt clip. The drums are horrible sounding because of the clipping and whenever there is palm muting it sounds laughable bad.
I might actually keep this album as a reminder how NOT to mix an album.


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## ZeroSignal (Sep 27, 2008)

Moloch said:


> I just got the album just because I read how bad the production was.. wow..., listening to the first track right now, tons of audible clipping!!!1111
> This has the worst production I've never heard as far as clipping/dynamics go.
> Sure Devin Townsend compresses his stuff to hell, but atleast it doesnt clip. The drums are horrible sounding because of the clipping and whenever there is palm muting it sounds laughable bad.
> I might actually keep this album as a reminder how NOT to mix an album.



Funny, because I thought Townsend's albums outside of the SYL sphere have great dynamics.


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## thesimo (Sep 27, 2008)

just got the album, my god this is atrocious, I mean really...its unlistenable


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## playstopause (Sep 27, 2008)

thesimo said:


> just got the album, my god this is atrocious, I mean really...its unlistenable



That's SO exagerated IMO.


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## Naren (Sep 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> That's SO exagerated IMO.





I heard the album at Tower Records today, at a club 2 weeks ago, at a small CD shop a week ago, and several places since then, and, while it is really really loud, it's FAR from "unlistenable." I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Sure, what a lot of people are saying is correct, but it's exaggerated to the extreme.


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## thesimo (Sep 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> That's SO exagerated IMO.



Its not, in my headphones it is beyond irritating


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## Moloch (Sep 27, 2008)

ZeroSignal said:


> Funny, because I thought Townsend's albums outside of the SYL sphere have great dynamics.



Listen to the last few records...


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## ZeroSignal (Sep 27, 2008)

Moloch said:


> Listen to the last few records...



I know, I was specifically thinking about ZTO, stuff like Solar Winds and whatnot.


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## ChaNce (Sep 27, 2008)

Isn't the a riff from "The End of the Line" the same riff for the most part as "Vicarious?" from 10K days?


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## Dr. Von Goosewing (Sep 28, 2008)

thesimo said:


> Its not, in my headphones it is beyond irritating



 It's ok on a home stereo, but check it out on some headphones and it's quite obviously distorted.


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## playstopause (Sep 28, 2008)

Dr. Von Goosewing said:


> It's ok on a home stereo, but check it out on some headphones and it's quite obviously distorted.



We all know it's distorted. "Unlistenable", I mean come on.



thesimo said:


> Its not, in my headphones it is beyond irritating



Then just don't listen to it with headphones.


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## damigu (Sep 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> We all know it's distorted. "Unlistenable", I mean come on.



i found it unlistenable, too. because i just couldn't hear the music--all i kept hearing was how terrible it sounded and that made the music sound ten times worse to me.

i listened to the guitar hero rip and it is significantly better (still bad production, but not offensively bad like the official release). i didn't find myself completely distracted by the god-awful production. unfortunately, i came to the conclusion that still didn't like the music itself.


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## playstopause (Sep 28, 2008)

Whatever. 

Bad choice of words IMHO.


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## garthfluff (Sep 29, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Whatever.
> 
> Bad choice of words IMHO.



I'd go as far to say it's unlistenable through my speaker or headphone set ups. Audio chain is 

Laptop running FuBar with FLAC > Benchmark DAC1 Pre > Sennheiser HD650 for head phones and Bowers and Wilkins 685s for speakers. It sounds terrible in this reasonably high resolution set up.


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## Decipher (Oct 1, 2008)

I bought this album the week it came out and noticed the clipping right away. Great album otherwise, but it's really hard to listen to in my truck's CD player. I notice it the most in there.

I saw this today and can't help but post. I LOL'd.


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## Moloch (Oct 1, 2008)

Indeed, unless you have shitty speakers (i.e most pc speakers) the clipping is quite noticeable, especially on a decent pair of headphones, like my grados.
The first track on the album I was wondering of the erm.. rip I got was bad, when james palm mutes it's even worse. amazing. Btw anyone else think the first track seems to be the worst when it comes to clipping?


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## Mattayus (Oct 1, 2008)

fucking hell, this thread was on like page 3 last time i looked.

I haven't listened to the album yet, is the clipping really that bad? It's weird, I find it hard to believe that a band that huge, with a producer that well known and that revered would produce an album that clipped by accident. It must be an intentional statement, a 'fuck you' to the loudness war perhaps? Or maybe they're trying to start a new trend - "this band's so heavy you can't record them without it clipping!" 

i dont know, but this whole thing doesn't really wash with me. I think it's intentional and is probably supposed to go with the feel of the album


----------



## F1Filter (Oct 1, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> I haven't listened to the album yet, is the clipping really that bad?



Yes, it's fucking horrible. I don't know about anyone else. But I have the CD solely to justify downloading the "remastered" versions online. Because it really is that flipping lousy.



> i dont know, but this whole thing doesn't really wash with me. I think it's intentional and is probably supposed to go with the feel of the album



If this hasn't been posted yet. METALLICA's LARS ULRICH Breaks Silence On 'Death Magnetic' Sound Quality Controversy - Sep. 29, 2008

Although Lars, IMHO, has no business commenting on sound quality when it's been know for quite sometime that he's got a very bad case of tinnitus. Of course he can't hear all the clipping. He's got no more hearing left in that frequency range!


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## playstopause (Oct 1, 2008)

^

So there you go.
Like Darren expressed, it's an "artistic direction" they chose to take.


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## TomAwesome (Oct 1, 2008)

Okay, I finally gave the album a listen. I'm on the last track now. The limiting sucks, and the clipping is a lot more audible than I expected, but I don't think it's really as bad overall as everyone keeps saying it is. The limiting/clipping seems to be a lot worse in some parts than others. On the last track I'm listening to right now, for instance, it's pretty bad. The first track was pretty bad, too. A lot of this album gives me some ear fatigue and a little bit of a headache, but I've honestly heard other albums that sound a lot worse. There have been several albums that I couldn't even force myself to listen through because the compression/limiting was messing with my head that badly. However, the really obvious clipping is new to me.

Having put that into relative perspective, though, I still have to say that this album is very poorly mixed. It's sad that such a big budget band can't get a proper recording.


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## damigu (Oct 2, 2008)

F1Filter said:


> If this hasn't been posted yet. METALLICA's LARS ULRICH Breaks Silence On 'Death Magnetic' Sound Quality Controversy - Sep. 29, 2008



i like how everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else.

ted jensen is saying "it wasn't my mastering, the final mix i got was already that way."

and at the end of this article, lars is saying, "rubin wanted it loud and lively and we tried it his way."

no one is willing to accept responsibility for this abysmal production!
i'd be denying responsibility for it, too.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 2, 2008)

damigu said:


> i like how everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else.
> 
> ted jensen is saying "it wasn't my mastering, the final mix i got was already that way."
> 
> ...



Cant blame them, especially rubin, admitting crap producing would be suicide.


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## Korbain (Oct 2, 2008)

the band, the mixer, the producer, the whole team should be shot for that! lol that is sooooooo bad! Common fucking sense lol. what were they thinking "ok up everything 109db"


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## Moloch (Oct 2, 2008)

I hear they actually wanted it to be closer 140Db- i.e a jet plane, but the mixer told him that wasnt technically possible on a cd so he did the next best thing- compressed it to hell and even let it clip.. massivly.
Btw for those of you that has metallica's whole catalog on their computer- listen to a track from black album(or any album really) and then any track from this one.. amazing how much louder (and shitter sounding) it is. Btw I was somewhat surprised that the black album is actually quieter than AJFA given it's slick production- I looked at Foobar's replay gain values for the two albums, opened it up in nero wave editior to confirm, kind of funny I think that the slick production (in comparison) is actually quieter than their older albums, i expected it to be a bit louder and compressed, i think the (triggered?) snare sound is one reason I figured it was more compressed then it seemed to be.


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## Mattayus (Oct 2, 2008)

I think the Black Album was quiet because it was a very dynamic album. It has 10 x more layers than the previous albums, so to even compress and raise the volume a little bit would sound crazy.


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## oompa (Oct 2, 2008)

relating to topic, the black album is production-history within metal, in many people's (and my) opinion, probably the best production ever within the genre


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## damigu (Oct 2, 2008)

oompa said:


> relating to topic, the black album is production-history within metal, in many people's (and my) opinion, probably the best production ever within the genre



possibly the best production within metal at the time, yes. it seems to be among of the first time that they took the clarity, openness, and definition of pop production and applied it to metal.
though i would hesitate to say "ever"--i think that many metal albums today have even better production that is fuller and richer sounding, better utilizing surround channels, etc. but metallica's self titled was definitely a big step forward in metal sound engineering.


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## Moloch (Oct 2, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> I think the Black Album was quiet because it was a very dynamic album. It has 10 x more layers than the previous albums, so to even compress and raise the volume a little bit would sound crazy.


Well the snare makes it seem not dynamic at all (same sound everytime...).
Btw devin townsend uses a shitload of layers in his SYL and DTB albums yet he compresses teh living shit of his stuff.


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## Mattayus (Oct 2, 2008)

Yeah but he's working with equipment that's nearly 20 years more advanced than the Black Album days don't forget. Production capability has come a long way since then


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## Moloch (Oct 2, 2008)

Compression is still compression


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## Lucky Seven (Oct 2, 2008)

Last thing I listened to before getting this album was that J-Metal band, Loudness. \m/


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## Harry (Oct 4, 2008)

F1Filter said:


> Yes, it's fucking horrible. I don't know about anyone else. But I have the CD solely to justify downloading the "remastered" versions online. Because it really is that flipping lousy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's sad, but true (if you excuse the pun).

I wanted to shit bricks when I saw the comment by that guy RudeBill


"also, 12,000 signatures of complaint out of nearly a million cd's sold in the US alone, that's an extreme minority. Shut up already."'


I don't understand how anyone can say the opinions of 12 000 people that actually understand the concepts of mixing and mastering is less meaningful than 988 000 people who haven't complained because they are too ignorant in the first place to know there is something wrong with the mix and mastering of what they are listening too.
The more this "it's cool to be the ignorant majority" mentality abounds, the worse we can expect the future of music to be and even the whole of society to be.

Let's hope something good can come out of all of this eventually.


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## garthfluff (Oct 4, 2008)

I want what ever set up Lars is running in his car (the best listening environment...) that doesn't make this CD sound like ass.


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## TomAwesome (Oct 4, 2008)

garthfluff said:


> I want what ever set up Lars is running in his car (the best listening environment...) that doesn't make this CD sound like ass.



It's called severe hearing loss.


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## damigu (Oct 4, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> Yeah but he's working with equipment that's nearly 20 years more advanced than the Black Album days don't forget. Production capability has come a long way since then



that's just an excuse, and not a good one.
i have *RECORDS* from the 70's that have better production than most metal from before the mid-90's. 20 years before metallica's self titled, the equipment was already capable of doing better than what was on that album. so it was just a matter of getting the right staff in the tracking/mixing/mastering room.

it isn't about the equipment (to a point, anyway)--it's about the ears and musical understanding of the tracking/mixing/mastering engineers, and the producer's "vision" and how much he may or may not force it on the engineers.


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## TonalArchitect (Oct 10, 2008)

YOU'VE BEEN BRICKWALLED!

YouTube - Rick Roll

Were no strangers to recording
You know the rules and so do I 
Total compressions what Im thinking of
You wouldnt want dynamics running too wild 

I just want to ride the zeros
Gotta make the record bland

Never have to turn it up
Gonna have to turn it down
It clips and limits and it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Nuance is gonna die 
It wont hurt you

Youve heard dynamics for so long 
Come on theyre boring Are you too weak to say it? 
Besides we both know whats gonna go on
You bought this disk and youre gonna play it

And if you ask me if its clipping
Dont tell me you cant hear. 

Never have to turn it up
Its way too loud
It clips and limits and it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Nuance is gonna die 
It wont hurt you

Never have to turn it up
Gonna have to turn it down
It clips and limits and it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Nuance is gonna die 
It wont hurt you

Ohhh squash that wave
Ohhh squash that wave
Never gonna let
Never gonna let 
Let it breath 
Ohhh squash that wave
Ohhh squash that wave
Never gonna let
Never gonna let 
Let it breath 

Limiters been going for so long
It sounds like broken Glass but well never say it
Besides we both know whats gonna go on
You bought this disk and youre gonna play it
I just want to ride the zeros
Gotta make the record bland

Never have to turn it up
Brickwalled at the mix down
So much distortion that it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Dynamics are gonna die 
It wont hurt you

Never have to turn it up
Its way too loud
It clips and limits and it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Nuance is gonna die 
It wont hurt you


Never have to turn it up
Gonna have to turn it down
It clips and limits and it hurts you
Itll make you cry 
Make you just ask why? 
Nuance is gonna die 
It wont hurt you


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## Ror3h (Oct 11, 2008)

TonalArchitect said:


> YOU'VE BEEN BRICKWALLED!



HOLY LOL


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## steveljohn8 (Nov 27, 2009)

yes i like the music,but you know there is some discrepancy in it so anyway but thank you for your sharing this topic here.


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## drmosh (Nov 27, 2009)

steveljohn8 said:


> yes i like the music,but you know there is some discrepancy in it so anyway but thank you for your sharing this topic here.



so you resurrect this thread to say essentially nothing?


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## steveljohn8 (Nov 27, 2009)

it good music i like it very much i really enjoy it whenever i listen it.


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## Fred the Shred (Nov 27, 2009)

Thing is this thread was dead and buried for more than a year, and you just posted in it for no apparent reason, that's all. 

Anyway, make sure to check thread dates - since you're new here, you'll get a lot of very old threads in the "new thread" category.


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## Setnakt (Nov 27, 2009)

^spambot.


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## Koshchei (Nov 27, 2009)

I cannot stand Metallica. In my opinion, boring, banal, and musically retarded characterizes everything they've ever released.


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