# So im going back to school to pursue mu bachelors in music



## Metalus (Aug 11, 2011)

Im having a dilemma. I really wanna go for a Bachelors in Performance but im afraid it wont land me much work after I graduate. Another option im considering is getting a bachelors in music education and pursuing a masters in performance but that also worries me because I hear music teachers dont have a lot of work opportunities nowadays and I dont wanna be struggling finding work when I get out of school. 

What are the perks of a bachelors or masters in performance? I know id be able to get session gigs which is something i would definitely enjoy, but what else is there? Also, im considering going to Florida International University, but ive heard alot of bad things about their music program. Anyone here go there?

Any tips or suggestions at all will be greatly appreciated. I'm really worried because i dont wanna study for 4-6 years and not be able to find work when I'm done


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## bandinaboy (Aug 11, 2011)

Im a Junior in college now. And I was a Music/Audio engineering major for a year and then I switched to Music education and I lost almost no time. Its ok to switch if your not feeling it. 

The thing is, I hate Music education now (now that I am done with almost all of my music classes, I have to take teaching classes) and I miss Audio. But my dad who is a starving musician said I really should stick with Music ed. So I am. And i think Ill hate school until I am done, but in 10 years I won't regret it at all. Just until then school sucks haha.


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## SirMyghin (Aug 11, 2011)

If you are worried about actually having a job when you finish, music may not be the right choice if you plan to return to school.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 11, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> If you are worried about actually having a job when you finish, music may not be the right choice if you plan to return to school.



Straight up, it's a difficult thing to find money in


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Aug 12, 2011)

I'll echo what's been said. It's very difficult to find work in any field of music. I myself am studying composition so that I can eventually teach theory/comp (big surprise, huh? ). Do I think it'll ever make a career? Maaaaaybe. But, you know, music is an art: you don't go into it for money. Unlike business and accounting, it's a labor of love. Performance, especially. If you'd rather make good, reliable money, there are much shorter education paths. But, hey, there are worse ways to go; so many people go through college without enriching their self. Ever spoken to a communications major? Then you know what is meant by "dismal existence". The arts are, by far, the most awesome studies, but the tradeoff is that you'll be poor forever.


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## Metalus (Aug 12, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> I'll echo what's been said. It's very difficult to find work in any field of music. I myself am studying composition so that I can eventually teach theory/comp (big surprise, huh? ). Do I think it'll ever make a career? Maaaaaybe. But, you know, music is an art: you don't go into it for money. Unlike business and accounting, it's a labor of love. Performance, especially. If you'd rather make good, reliable money, there are much shorter education paths. But, hey, there are worse ways to go; so many people go through college without enriching their self. Ever spoken to a communications major? Then you know what is meant by "dismal existence". The arts are, by far, the most awesome studies, but the tradeoff is that you'll be poor forever.



Well im not going into it because i wanna make money. I just want to be able to make enough money to live on my own and take care of myself. I know theres no wealthy lifestyle involved, i just wanna be able to provide for myself and make a living off of it.

What are the other shorter education paths you mentioned?


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## Sephael (Aug 12, 2011)

With a degree in music education you should be able to teach almost any class in elementary or middle school since you have to take general teaching classes, and if not a few extra credits should get you there, giving you more opportunities for employment if you can't find a job as a band teacher or what ever.


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## Metalus (Aug 12, 2011)

Would i be able to get a bachelors in performance and still be able to teach? Or is a music education bachelors necessary?


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## Sephael (Aug 12, 2011)

Depends on the state, some states because of shortages require a bachelors in any field, though these are generally aimed towards in demand fields like science and math. And after you start to teach you have to be working towards the rest of the courses required for the teaching degree.


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## BigPhi84 (Aug 12, 2011)

Metalus said:


> Would i be able to get a bachelors in performance and still be able to teach? Or is a music education bachelors necessary?




Some states (such as Georgia) allow you to get a teaching certificate if you have a BA in Performance degree. Keep in mind that you will not be paid as much as if you had a Music Ed degree.


Ok, here's where I rant a little. I've never understood the point of a Performance degree (I got my degree in Music Composition, BTW.) To me, all it really is is a 'BA in General Studies' with 4 years of private lessons tacked on. Is 4 years of lessons really worth all that tuition cost? 

There's really not much available after graduation for Guitar Performance. Most of the Performance Majors I've seen graduate go on to teach a small studio at a music store.

If you want to be a session musician, there are a few schools that I find are more applicable, such as the Atlanta Institute of Music (where Tosin Abasi and Josh Martin attended) and Musician's Institute (although, there are some murky feelings about the school on this board.) 


Here's my rant on Music Education. Would you be willing to teach high school choir, with all the teenage drama? Would you be willing to teach elementary school band, with all the squeaking? Would you be willing to teach drill for Marching Band in the middle of a 100+ degree summer? Would you be willing to teach a General Music class to kindergarteners with Orff instruments? Would you stay after school for hours, mentoring that one musically gifted student that has a broken homelife? Would you be willing to fight PTA's and school boards if funding got cut for music? Would you be able to deal with know-it-all parents and Band Booster clubs? Would you be able to stand up to the School Principal if policy was enacted that hurt your students? Would you be able to tell someone that they weren't cut out for music? Would you be willing to work with a student that really wanted to learn how to sing, but could only sing two notes in tune?


It you said, "No", to any of the above questions, then please do the music world a favor and abandon your thoughts of pursuing a Music Ed degree. It takes a special person to do Music Ed justice. Being a music teacher at a school is one of the hardest teaching gigs there is. You can't just be a teacher. You have to be a mentor, a friend, a mediator, a counselor, a life coach, etc. and that's just for the students! Lets not mention all the duties you'd have to the parents, school, etc.

Have you ever had a crappy math or english teacher in your life? I'd assume, "yes, we've all had that crappy math/english teacher. Whether it was the teacher that fully understood the Universe but couldn't find the layman words to get his students to understand, or the teacher who knew less about the subject than the students, or the teacher that just didn't care about the students (who usually played Solitaire on the computer while all the students took a pop quiz), we've all had a bad math/english teacher. 

Here's the thing though... the school system in America forces you to take atleast 10 years of both subjects. How many years of music does it force?!?! Exactly... none. What does that mean? Well, all it takes is one bad music teacher for someone to write music completely out of their lives.

I've seen so many people graduate with a Music Ed degree, ill-equipped to handle the world. It's something I've thought about a lot, and the reason why I didn't pursue Music Ed. Not to get too long winded, but I believe that you are born with certain spiritual gifts. I have many musical gifts, but I don't have have that "big presence" that's needed to command a large room of snotty-nosed kids. My fraternity teaches "advancing Music in America" and I don't think I could do that as a Classroom teacher.


Sorry for the length, I'm just very passionate about this topic. To your other question, I have a ton of Brothers that go to FIU for Music (I'm in the National Music Fraternity, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia) and while I don't know much about the music program there, all the bruhs I've met from FIU are legit musicians. I can give them your contact info if you wanted to chat about the possibility of going to school there.


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## JP Universe (Aug 12, 2011)

You know what, I thought the exact same when I was 18/19 years old and I wanted to teach guitar as a living.... I mean I wanted the Bachelor of Music (4 years) and i didn't get in for 2 years while on my 2nd year attempt a guy (must have smashed me in music reading) got in... I played Vai Tender Surrender.... he played The Darkness???)

The thing is (multiple years later) i'm earning big money in a call centre browsing forums and looking at Ebay listings (gas) and teaching 8 students on the side.... My point is..... just go with your gut, and the rest will work itself out!


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## JP Universe (Aug 12, 2011)

"Liked coz of JP whore"


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## Metalus (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think im gonna go ahead and aim for the bachelors of music education degree for job security purposes


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Aug 13, 2011)

Metalus said:


> What are the other shorter education paths you mentioned?



Anything.  Except for pre-Soviet-era Russian history, that is. As I understand it, the History channel only thinks about the Cold War when "Russia" is mentioned.


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 13, 2011)

I can only offer you this.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Aug 13, 2011)

^ 0:00 - My community college is right next to that high school.


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## Metalus (Aug 15, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> Anything.  Except for pre-Soviet-era Russian history, that is. As I understand it, the History channel only thinks about the Cold War when "Russia" is mentioned.



My biggest issue with this has been I just havent been able to find anything else that I think I could enjoy. I wanted to try physical therapy but the program filled up and I would hafta wait a year before i got another chance at it.

Is there anything I would learn while getting a performance degree that I wouldn't learn getting a music education degree?


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## StratoJazz (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, if you decide to go on the BAM route, try to network with lots of people, make lots of friends, and minimize the amount of enemies you have. That way, if a friend has a gig and needs a guitar player, he is more likely to call you than the other guy. Also if it's a style of music you're not acquainted with, you should still go to the gig, especially if a friend called you to do it.

Don't turn down gigs because you feel like you aren't good enough. Alot of music schools are kind of like scenes with their own respective hierarchies. Turning down the gig could ruin you chance to move up or even get into the scene. I know the concept is bullshit but:

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Also realize that the majority of your success as a musician is about how you market as well as present yourself. If you market yourself as having perfect pitch, and are a jazz virtuoso, people are going to take that into account as you play for them. You play well, you're a virtuoso, play bad, your a dumbass  . If you present your self as wimpy ass guitar player, people don't want to play with you at all. If you present yourself as a confident, hardworking individual, people will be more accepting of you. Make some friends with marketing students as well. They could give you some ideas on marketing you and your music to others.

As others have said up to this point, it's hard to make rent as a musician. If rent is $300, utilities are $50-70, internet is $17.50, that doesn't even include food. This also accounts that you have a roommate, and is my current living situation.

You can do it, but you have to make friends and burn only a few bridges. Or you can always marry a rich chick .


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 15, 2011)

bandinaboy said:


> Im a Junior in college now. And I was a Music/Audio engineering major for a year and then I switched to Music education and I lost almost no time. Its ok to switch if your not feeling it.
> 
> The thing is, I hate Music education now (now that I am done with almost all of my music classes, I have to take teaching classes) and I miss Audio. But my dad who is a starving musician said I really should stick with Music ed. So I am. And i think Ill hate school until I am done, but in 10 years I won't regret it at all. Just until then school sucks haha.


 
You're supposed to hate school to an extent. Builds character.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 15, 2011)

Metalus said:


> My biggest issue with this has been I just havent been able to find anything else that I think I could enjoy. I wanted to try physical therapy but the program filled up and I would hafta wait a year before i got another chance at it.
> 
> Is there anything I would learn while getting a performance degree that I wouldn't learn getting a music education degree?


 
Find something that will FEED YOU. Worry about enjoying yourself in your free time. A good job affords you plenty of that.


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## Metalus (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys


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## Overtone (Aug 19, 2011)

Just another idea for you... You could focus on either composition or production/engineering and take courses from the other, and use it to get into making soundtracks, game music, doing audio for stuff that isnt necessarily music, that kind of thing. The basic idea is to be able to have a good enough setup at home, be professional, meet deadlines, and do stuff that is appropriate for the project involved. Every commercial, movie, educational video, etc has someone behind the sound. The hard part beyond being able to do it is that you have to be a good entrepeneur and treat it like your own business, as opposed to collecting paychecks for teaching or doing your bi monthly cocktail gig.


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## theclap (Aug 19, 2011)

Music Ed is not something I can shed light on, but I have pursued a degree in performance. I can also give a few examples of what can come out of a performance degree which said ideas will also transpire into the area of music ed. I have a feeling this is going to be as long as phi's post.

First off, you want to plan ahead. KNOW WHAT YOU ULTIMATELY WANT TO DO, albeit be a famous rockstar or teach elementary band. Find and apply to the right schools for you. Music is a fairly new degree program so know the difference between schools and their programs and what they teach because a lot of schools have some wacky and cool classes to offer aside from the norm. Know if you want to do Classical guitar, jazz guitar, or composition, or all of them because you have that option too. If you are not sure which area of music you want look into community colleges. Some, like mine, have AMAZING teachers and better programs than universities in the area. Know what you want to do when you are out of school, this is important to at least know what you want to do personally; it could be a gamble but that is the part of a music degree that you have to just go for and is the biggest and only catch next to being broke for the rest of your life. Lastly, be prepared. if you're going into a jazz degree with no understanding of jazz and its history and the real book, take the next 1-2 years to learn everything there is to learn about jazz because you will have a large upper hand when you get to school. This is a very big deal breaker to your instrument and small group teachers because most people come into a program like berklee's knowing nothing but autumn leaves and watermelon man(but they know the whole repitoire of JP solos and thats all that matters in life right?). If you come in with all of the easy stuff you can learn on your own at home(or with $20/hr lessons from the old dude down the street), you will be optimizing your private lesson and performance abilities at school. Teacher's look for maturity to technicality and you will outshine the full ride virtuoso's by looking more professional and modest. 

Also one very big part of this area of study is networking. networking is how you get gigs and make money. keep in touch with teachers, students, any body you every play with. Somehow be able to contact them if you need to and make sure they can do the same. this is important especially in jazz, everybody knows everybody so it is very easy to get big time gigs if you stay sociable and communicative with your piers. 

When you get accepted and finally start school, you'll find that a few people will suck and a few people will be prodigies with full rides, but you will mostly find that everybody is at the same level. People have this psychological tendency to think that every one is either better than them or terrible. Get that out of your head. Everyone has their own sound and by the time you get to a junior in college you will come to a technical maturity where you understand that it doesnt matter how fast you play or what ever it all depends on your own developed sound, melodic abillity, performance/improvisation/sight reading ability, and your communication skills.

Composition is real cool to get into if you want money like stated above by Overtone. My buddy graduated with a composition degree and writes commercial jingles and gets royalty checks in the mail. His best friend is the mail man. 

I would like to conclude before getting to my last part which is my experience in the performance field by saying that I beleive that going to school for music is a waste of time. Tbh, i think almost all college is a load of horse shit but let's keep it some where in the tangible realm of a music degree for sake of sake.

it's basically 2 years of theory courses that could be summed up into 1 year, some history of music classes, gen ed, and ear training. Phi is right, The lessons were the cheapest part of my tuition, and the only part that really mattered. 

I went to a CC for 2 years and got my associates in music. I studied classical, jazz, and composition, and A/E because i knew what i wanted and how to take full potential of my given situation. At the time there was no way in hell i was going to start at least a 4 year commitment that would cost 60+ k a year, which my transfer school happened to be. 

I tried to stress this earlier because what lead me to be able to do all of that at CC in 2 years was that i was prepared. I knew how to sight read ok, knew minimal piano, took AP theory in school, was in jazz band for 3 years prior, knew the real book decently, listened to jazz, had basic understanding of improvisation and modes, and basic understanding of chordmelodies. Some people leave college with that kind of experience and THAT is where you are destined to failure. I ended up being way too prepared for theory and ear training for 3 of 4 semesters due to AP theory and my minimal background in jazz put me in a very comfortable situation for lessons and ensembles. Your private lesson teachers in college are not looking to teach you scales and how to tremolo pick. They want to help you develop your own personal sound unconsciously through their teachings because that is where you want to be when you are all graduated with your piece of paper with a big ol' B.A. on it and your on your own in the real world. 


Here's the bombshell...
I ended up transferring to the New School for Jazz and Contemporary music. After placing very decently in all placement tests, which covered all 4 years and all classes, they put me back into all level 2 classes, freshmen 2nd semester level classes. During my first semester everything just started to fall apart. I started to realize im paying 60k/yr for a whole schedule of shit ive already learned. The lessons again were the cheapest part of my tuition but if it wasnt for my private lessons, which the new school has a SERIOUS list of big names for private teachers, I would have got up and left after the first month. 
yadda yadda yadda...
I bagged it and now i go to school for computer science. The only thing my whole music degree experience was worth was the Gen Ed credits that it covered for my new degree.


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## Metalus (Aug 20, 2011)

Overtone said:


> Just another idea for you... You could focus on either composition or production/engineering and take courses from the other, and use it to get into making soundtracks, game music, doing audio for stuff that isnt necessarily music, that kind of thing. The basic idea is to be able to have a good enough setup at home, be professional, meet deadlines, and do stuff that is appropriate for the project involved. Every commercial, movie, educational video, etc has someone behind the sound. The hard part beyond being able to do it is that you have to be a good entrepeneur and treat it like your own business, as opposed to collecting paychecks for teaching or doing your bi monthly cocktail gig.





theclap said:


> Music Ed is not something I can shed light on, but I have pursued a degree in performance. I can also give a few examples of what can come out of a performance degree which said ideas will also transpire into the area of music ed. I have a feeling this is going to be as long as phi's post.
> 
> First off, you want to plan ahead. KNOW WHAT YOU ULTIMATELY WANT TO DO, albeit be a famous rockstar or teach elementary band. Find and apply to the right schools for you. Music is a fairly new degree program so know the difference between schools and their programs and what they teach because a lot of schools have some wacky and cool classes to offer aside from the norm. Know if you want to do Classical guitar, jazz guitar, or composition, or all of them because you have that option too. If you are not sure which area of music you want look into community colleges. Some, like mine, have AMAZING teachers and better programs than universities in the area. Know what you want to do when you are out of school, this is important to at least know what you want to do personally; it could be a gamble but that is the part of a music degree that you have to just go for and is the biggest and only catch next to being broke for the rest of your life. Lastly, be prepared. if you're going into a jazz degree with no understanding of jazz and its history and the real book, take the next 1-2 years to learn everything there is to learn about jazz because you will have a large upper hand when you get to school. This is a very big deal breaker to your instrument and small group teachers because most people come into a program like berklee's knowing nothing but autumn leaves and watermelon man(but they know the whole repitoire of JP solos and thats all that matters in life right?). If you come in with all of the easy stuff you can learn on your own at home(or with $20/hr lessons from the old dude down the street), you will be optimizing your private lesson and performance abilities at school. Teacher's look for maturity to technicality and you will outshine the full ride virtuoso's by looking more professional and modest.
> 
> ...



Damn thanks a bunch dudes. I really appreciate all the replies. At the moment I've decided to go back to MDCC to "refresh" on all things theory, jazz, and my playing in general. I havent done much in the last few years in terms of getting better as a player because ive made some poor life decisions. Im gonna go back now, get better, and then hopefully audition for a university before fall of next year. I figured im not ready to take that step just yet so i might as well go back to MDCC and take some classes to prepare me for this new journey.


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## LamaSabachthani (Aug 20, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> I'll echo what's been said. It's very difficult to find work in any field of music. I myself am studying composition so that I can eventually teach theory/comp (big surprise, huh? ). Do I think it'll ever make a career? Maaaaaybe. But, you know, music is an art: you don't go into it for money. Unlike business and accounting, it's a labor of love. Performance, especially. If you'd rather make good, reliable money, there are much shorter education paths. But, hey, there are worse ways to go; so many people go through college without enriching their self. Ever spoken to a communications major? Then you know what is meant by "dismal existence". The arts are, by far, the most awesome studies, but the tradeoff is that you'll be poor forever.



I would like to buy you a drink for that hilarious comment about 'Communications' majors haha


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Aug 21, 2011)

LamaSabachthani said:


> I would like to buy you a drink for that hilarious comment about 'Communications' majors haha



Can I send you on a quest for Pliny The Elder?


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## stryker1800 (Aug 22, 2011)

I would love to get a guitar performance degree, but I think i would end up hating guitar if I got the degree and tried depending on it for my living wages, instead ill major in something like accounting and master the guitar in my free time.


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