# Neural DSP vs. ...?



## nyxzz (Feb 29, 2020)

hey guys,

living situation and finances are forcing me to sell all of my pedals and my head/cab. to prepare for this, im trying to find the best amp emulation that isn't kemper or axe fx levels of expensive. I already have some yamaha monitors (whatever the white cones are that are super popular, name escapes me) and a recent scarlet 2i2 interface. I bought bias fx a few years ago and saw fx 2 came out recently. it was 60 bucks since i owned the first one so i gave it a shot...was not impressed. just felt weird and super synthetic, as did fx 1. I remembered neural dsp existing and saw they had standalone programs. downloaded the plini and nolly sets and im blown away, it destroys bias fx. my question to you all is - is there something better than neural dsp sets in a similar price range? id appreciate anyones opinion


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## Merrekof (Feb 29, 2020)

Sorry to hear, had a financial downfall last year so I had to let go of some gear too..

As far as software fx goes, I tried the Peavey Revalver software when it first came out, many years ago. It sounded like garbage! Haven't tried anything software related other than some free trial plugins but there was nothing that I thought was worth it.

What's your budget? Have you thought about small preamp modellers? Like Zoom, Digitech, Mooer, Joyo,.. they've come a long way the last few years in terms of sound quality and can be hooked up directly to your monitors. (Depends on the model and the outputs it has ofcourse)

A little more expensive but a Boss multi-fx unit or Katana amp, Line6 Pod,..?

Ofcourse you can't compare it to the real deal but small money will get you a decent enough tone these days imo..


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## nickgray (Feb 29, 2020)

This should be in the recording forum.

Bias is pretty crap in general, at least imo. They're good at marketing, but that's all about they're good at. Neural is great, but it uses iLok (even without the dongle it's still a very draconian DRM), and it's pricey too. For something really cheap, try Mercuriall SS-11X. it's really good. It's a just a preamp emulation, but it's still awesome, the tone and the feel are definitely up there as far as plugins go. You can use the free Ignite power amp sim if you want to. TSE X50 is also pretty great, definitely check it out.


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## sleewell (Feb 29, 2020)

love my helix lt. i would buy another for sure.


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## Boofchuck (Feb 29, 2020)

I don't think you're going to find anything more enjoyable, quick and easy to use, good feeling, or good sounding as the Neural stuff in that price range. Especially with how versatile the Nolly and Plini plugin's are for covering different sounds and genres. I have Archetype Nolly and it's kept me very satisfied since I bought it. Enough so that I haven't felt compelled to buy any of the other Neural plugins, other than Parallax for bass. And the only hardware you need is what you already have.

I downloaded the Helix Native trial a few days ago and the high gain sounds don't even come close to the Neural stuff in my opinion, but the effects are a blast. And ilok may be draconian but in my experience it's unobtrusive and your plugins will still work without an internet connection. 

Just my two cents as an amateur of course.


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## Jeff (Feb 29, 2020)

nickgray said:


> This should be in the recording forum.
> 
> Bias is pretty crap in general, at least imo. They're good at marketing, but that's all about they're good at. Neural is great, but it uses iLok (even without the dongle it's still a very draconian DRM), and it's pricey too. For something really cheap, try Mercuriall SS-11X. it's really good. It's a just a preamp emulation, but it's still awesome, the tone and the feel are definitely up there as far as plugins go. You can use the free Ignite power amp sim if you want to. TSE X50 is also pretty great, definitely check it out.



Ah shit, they use friggin’ iLok? I hate that shit. That’s a real turn off.


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## nickgray (Feb 29, 2020)

Jeff said:


> Ah shit, they use friggin’ iLok? I hate that shit. That’s a real turn off.



Yep. It's 3 activations, and iLok is also finicky with hardware changes, afaik. Considering the price, it's completely absurd. They did really damn good with their marketing though.


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## Jeff (Feb 29, 2020)

nickgray said:


> Yep. It's 3 activations, and iLok is also finicky with hardware changes, afaik. Considering the price, it's completely absurd. They did really damn good with their marketing though.



Ugh. Forget that. I have Helix Native, I’ll just stick with that.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Mar 1, 2020)

For the money if using for recording only, I really dig what I've been getting out of the STL Tonality Will Putney bundle, but for live, I'm still using my HD500X, but would love to get either a Helix, or as soon as it is ready the Neural DSP Quad Cortex.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 1, 2020)

The iLok activation for neural plug-ins is done through software and takes 60 seconds max to do. If you can download, install and use a plug-in within your DAW then you shouldn't have any trouble activating it.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 1, 2020)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The iLok activation for neural plug-ins is done through software and takes 60 seconds max to do. If you can download, install and use a plug-in within your DAW then you shouldn't have any trouble activating it.


^this. It's stupid easy to use.


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## Winspear (Mar 1, 2020)

Yep, iLok being a pain is a many years outdated viewpoint


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## bracky (Mar 1, 2020)

It’s worth the effort to activate.


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## nickgray (Mar 1, 2020)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The iLok activation for neural plug-ins is done through software and takes 60 seconds max to do.



The problem is not the activation, it's the reactivation. You get 3 activations, so 2 extra ones basically, and after then it's down to customer support. I've seen mentions that iLok craps out even after something dumb like repartitioning a hard drive or copying the files to a different drive. So basically, chances are, you get a new ssd or a new video card - and you're down an activation, leaving you with just one spare one. If you use a desktop computer and a laptop - you'll have zero. Not to mention that you're installing some weird ass unsigned drivers, who knows what potential vulnerabilities they might have.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 1, 2020)

I'm confident Neural would just send you a bunch more activations if you emailed them nicely and explained. I don't think I've ever seen anyone having trouble like that on the Fb group.


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## newamerikangospel (Mar 1, 2020)

Just want to say rhat I updated my C:/ drive, and just cloned the original one onto a large SSD, and had no issues at all. My ilok cloud worked perfectly. 

The stigma of the old ilok is well deserved, but seem to be no longer relevant.


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## Kaura (Mar 1, 2020)

NDSP using iLok is far less of a crime than GGD using Kontakt. 

Let alone, Cubase forcing the physical dongle thing. 

Also, I understand why people feel so hostile towards all these services like iLok (or why Cubase forces the dongle) but that's only because the companies are forced to because how big of a problem software piracy still is today.


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## Grindspine (Mar 1, 2020)

I like the Neural DSP DarkGlass plugins a lot, although I hate having to load iLok along side it. I have switched over to using Helix Native since it capture a very similar sound (Obsidian 7000 distortion preset) with more flexibility over cabinet IRs.

That being said, I also have a DarkGlass B7k Ultra, but use that in front of amps, so have not used the cab IR out of it much yet.


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## InHiding (Mar 1, 2020)

I would at least try Ignite Amps Emissary since it's free and some people like it. I think the new version 2 has been developed from the ground up. Every component modeled just like in Neural plugins I think. I haven't really tried the new version.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

InHiding said:


> I would at least try Ignite Amps Emissary since it's free and some people like it. I think the new version 2 has been developed from the ground up. Every component modeled just like in Neural plugins I think. I haven't really tried the new version.



Emissary is as good or better than most of the paid amp sims on the market. I like to boost it with the free Mercuriall "Greed Smasher" or "TSC" boosts. Use NadIR (also free) with some good impulses & it slays!


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

nickgray said:


> The problem is not the activation, it's the reactivation. You get 3 activations, so 2 extra ones basically, and after then it's down to customer support. I've seen mentions that iLok craps out even after something dumb like repartitioning a hard drive or copying the files to a different drive. So basically, chances are, you get a new ssd or a new video card - and you're down an activation, leaving you with just one spare one. If you use a desktop computer and a laptop - you'll have zero. Not to mention that you're installing some weird ass unsigned drivers, who knows what potential vulnerabilities they might have.





Lorcan Ward said:


> I'm confident Neural would just send you a bunch more activations if you emailed them nicely and explained. I don't think I've ever seen anyone having trouble like that on the Fb group.



I had some PC problems & had to reformat. I emailed Neural & they deactivated my old licenses with no questions asked. Great people to deal with!


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## trem licking (Mar 1, 2020)

I still say TH-U is the best all in one amp sim out there. varying packages/prices and everything is top quality... even has its own kemper profile-ish rigs. demo it!


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## Backsnack (Mar 1, 2020)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The iLok activation for neural plug-ins is done through software and takes 60 seconds max to do. If you can download, install and use a plug-in within your DAW then you shouldn't have any trouble activating it.


The only caveat is to make sure to deauthorize any licenses from your computer before you make any major hardware changes like motherboard, cpu, etc.

The only thing I hate most of all about iLok are the transfer fees if I want to resell a plug-in to someone.


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## Backsnack (Mar 1, 2020)

I’ll put my hat in the ring for Blue Cat Axiom as an alternative choice to Neural. The ability to load external plugins stably is really cool. You could theoretically load Neural plugins into Axiom if you wanted to. They also recently released some new presets that sound almost identical to the Plini amps.

Axiom is less plug and play IMO than Neural, but if you consider yourself more of a tweaker and like to experiment, you’ll enjoy it a lot. Oh and the inclusion of their Late Replies is probably one of the best delay plugins out there.


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## Rev2010 (Mar 1, 2020)

IMO, get yourself either a Helix stomp or HX Effects and the Helix Native plugin which will then cost you $99 as an owner of HX hardware. One and done solution. Those that say it doesn't sound good or doesn't hold a candle to so and so competitors just likely don't have much tweaking experience. You can make Helix sound as good as anything else. And yeah I have Neural's Nameless, it's great but I never use it. With Helix Native you'll also get all the effects you could possibly want. Just my 2 cents.


Rev.


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## Masoo2 (Mar 1, 2020)

Overloud TH-U or Neural Plini/Nolly, take your pick

I personally lean TH-U. Dual signal chains, built in looper/exporter, TONS of options, able to load your own IRs, I think TH-U has a tonematching feature


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## axxessdenied (Mar 2, 2020)

Neural DSP is basically easy mode for good tones.


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## Deadpool_25 (Mar 2, 2020)

Yamaha HS(x) monitors are solid (I have the HS7s).

Hard to go wrong with NDSP and also hard to do much better even at some higher price points.


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## Metropolis (Mar 2, 2020)

Emissary is good for what it is, but lacks in feel and poweramp presence & depth. Neural DSP plugins don't lack in those areas, I still feel like using 3rd party ir's with them, even with Archetype: Nolly which has four different cabs and mics.


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## youngthrasher9 (Mar 2, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> Emissary is good for what it is, but lacks in feel and poweramp presence & depth. Neural DSP plugins don't lack in those areas, I still feel like using 3rd party ir's with them, even with Archetype: Nolly which has four different cabs and mics.



This is exactly what I was going to say.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 2, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> Emissary is good for what it is, but lacks in feel and poweramp presence & depth. Neural DSP plugins don't lack in those areas, I still feel like using 3rd party ir's with them, even with Archetype: Nolly which has four different cabs and mics.



Have you ever put Ignite's TPA-1 between Emissary & your cab? Go to TPA-1's back panel & adjust the resonance. I think it sounds great.


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## makesexnotwar (Mar 2, 2020)

Neural stuff is great! Haven't played through Kemper for a while after I bought Nolly's plugin


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## Metropolis (Mar 2, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> Have you ever put Ignite's TPA-1 between Emissary & your cab? Go to TPA-1's back panel & adjust the resonance. I think it sounds great.



Not with Emissary but with few other amp sims, LePou LeGion for example is pretty good paired with TPA-1. I got to try that, thanks. Quickly fiddled around with it, affected more to tone than feel, but definetly an improvement.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 2, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> Not with Emissary but with few other amp sims, LePou LeGion for example is pretty good paired with TPA-1. I got to try that, thanks. Quickly fiddled around with it, affected more to tone than feel, but definetly an improvement.



Do you plug straight into your interface or use a DI Box or what? Have you ever tried plugging into a buffer & then into your interface? I think it helps the way the amp sim feels.


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## Metropolis (Mar 2, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> Do you plug straight into your interface or use a DI Box or what? Have you ever tried plugging into a buffer & then into your interface? I think it helps the way the amp sim feels.



Cable straight to Audient iD4 di-input, impedance of 500k ohms which is pretty much in the same range as real amps have, 1 mega ohm is pretty common. What kind of benefit it would have if input levels are where they should be and there is no long cable runs? Would be cool to try out different di-boxes, overdrives in front and all that.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 2, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> Cable straight to Audient iD4 di-input, impedance of 500k ohms which is pretty much in the same range as real amps have, 1 mega ohm is pretty common. What kind of benefit it would have if input levels are where they should be and there is no long cable runs? Would be cool to try out different di-boxes, overdrives in front and all that.



Most buffers have a 1M Ω input impedance with a lower output impedance. My Countryman Type 85 has an input impedance of 10M Ω. I'm no expert, but from what I've read higher input impedance reduces the load on your pickups. I read a post online somewhere about using a buffer before the interface & I tried it & I just liked the way it made the amp sim feel, so I've been doing it ever since. Also, I like to run multiple preamp pedals & boosts into my interface & it helps drive the signal.

Check out this thread. It has some good information: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...lume-etc-questions-on-tone-impedance.1198927/


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