# Bare Knuckle Juggernaut 7 too fat/muddy in my opinion. Anyone agree?



## Chrisesp (Aug 22, 2018)

I have an Ibanez 7620 and I'm not having much luck with pickup swaps.

When I initially bought this guitar, it came with a set of Seymour Duncan Distortion 7's that were just ok. I didn't really care for the voicing in this particular guitar and I had read on here that Seymour Duncans don't generally gel too well with Ibanez basswood guitars.I sold these on and then without doing too much research, I found a good deal on a set of BKP Juggernauts and picked them up.

After having the Juggernauts for a few months, I find the bottom end really fat and muddy on the low B string. On my axe fx ii patches I really have to back the bass down and increase the treble/presence to get any real bite/tightness out of them. The seem to be quite a dark pickup which is the opposite of what i want.

I've now started thinking maybe it's the guitar that sounds bad, but it's so resonant and loud unplugged I find this hard to believe. I think I've just been unlucky with my pickup choices.

I'm prepared to give it one more shot at a pickup change before I move it on, which leads me to pickups. I'm thinking of playing it safe and grabbing the dactivator 7. From my research on this forum, the dactivator 7 seems to a killer choice for a basswood Ibanez. 

What's people's thoughts?


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## FitRocker33 (Aug 22, 2018)

I agree with the assessment of the juggs. I’m in the process of deciding on a replacement. 

FWIW, Nick @ Axe Palace (zimbloth on here) recommended a C-Pig


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 22, 2018)

FitRocker33 said:


> I agree with the assessment of the juggs. I’m in the process of deciding on a replacement.
> 
> FWIW, Nick @ Axe Palace (zimbloth on here) recommended a C-Pig


if the juggs are bloated for you, a c-pig will probably be worse. It has even more low end than the juggernaut.
granted it's not as low-mid heavy as the juggs, but it has a loooooot of low end and a lot of high end.


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## FitRocker33 (Aug 22, 2018)

That’s definitely not what I want. 

Looks like I may try a set of KSE Fishmans in that guitar then.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Aug 23, 2018)

My 7620 has been refinished with paint on top of the original, so it ends up being fairly dark or neutral at best. Definitely not as lively/resonant as another 7620 I had before, but I can still get good sounds from it with brighter pickups. Right now it's sporting an Ionizer set, but I've also had good results with the Evo 7


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## Chrisesp (Aug 23, 2018)

FitRocker33 said:


> I agree with the assessment of the juggs. I’m in the process of deciding on a replacement.
> 
> FWIW, Nick @ Axe Palace (zimbloth on here) recommended a C-Pig



Glad i'm not the only one. I can deal with the Juggernauts to an extent, but they are still too fat and have this big open mid voicing to them that isn't ideal for the music I play. I want something more sharp and crisper in the low end. I've heard good things about the Miracle Man and Cold Sweat in basswood.



TheWarAgainstTime said:


> My 7620 has been refinished with paint on top of the original, so it ends up being fairly dark or neutral at best. Definitely not as lively/resonant as another 7620 I had before, but I can still get good sounds from it with brighter pickups. Right now it's sporting an Ionizer set, but I've also had good results with the Evo 7



My friend has a 7421 with an evo 7 in. I think I'll try grab it off him for a bit to see how it sounds. Do you have any experience with any other pickups in a 7620? The Dactivator and Evo seem to be recommended a lot for basswood, as do the Miracleman and coldsweat from BKP.


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## TommyG (Aug 23, 2018)

Ceramic Nailbomb is usually the choice for Basswood.
I also am liking the dimarzio fusion edge pickups...


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## teqnick (Aug 23, 2018)

i have hated the Jugg in everything , thought I was crazy.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Aug 23, 2018)

Chrisesp said:


> My friend has a 7421 with an evo 7 in. I think I'll try grab it off him for a bit to see how it sounds. Do you have any experience with any other pickups in a 7620? The Dactivator and Evo seem to be recommended a lot for basswood, as do the Miracleman and coldsweat from BKP.



I've been through a ton of pickups in my 7620s, though they sounded very different from each other as I've already mentioned, plus I've had a bunch of amps through the years and haven't been able to compare all of the pickups directly 

The refinished one had a Lundgren M7 set installed when I bought it from the last owner. Honestly should have kept them because they sounded absolutely crushing and clear despite the darker nature of the guitar, but I felt like tweaking and sold them to find some other pickup sets.

Next I had a Duncan Distortion/59 pair. Wasn't crazy about the Distortion, but the '59 was nice. I eventually tried a Custom SH5 in the bridge, which had a cool voicing, but had too much low end for that guitar. Would have been great in a brighter guitar.

When I bought the other 7620, I put a BKP C-Pig and Liquifire in it, which was probably the best fit for that guitar. Just as brutal as the M7, but with a different voicing. I tried that pair out in the refinished 7620, but it was a little overwhelming in the low end. I traded the second 7620 away with the C-Pig/LF set still in it.

I had a Rebel Yell and Air Norton at one point in the refinished one, which was great. Again, I sold those to keep trying new stuff like an absolute idiot. I also had an Alnico Nailbomb and Cold Sweat pair, but they were both hotter and warmer than I wanted for that guitar. Again, would have been cool in a brighter guitar. The RY is essentially a tighter and underwound A-Bomb from what I've read.

Like I said, I have an Ionizer set in there now, which I really like so far. Right before that was a Blaze Custom bridge and PAF 7 neck, which is a killer pairing. I finally learned from my mistakes with the M7/Rebel Yell setups and kept them around as spares for the next time I feel like tinkering with pickups  the Blaze Custom is similar to the Evo, but with the midrange focus shifted a little lower.

As for the D-Activator, it worked well in both 7620s, but was a little bland IMO. High output for high output's sake, fairly neutral eq/voice, and hard to dial back the aggression. It's a safe choice for metal in an Ibanez, but there are more flexible and "cool" pickups that do metal out there.


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## skmanga (Aug 24, 2018)

I swapped out the stock bridge pickup in my mij7421 and threw in a kiesel lithium.
Works good for me.

EDIT:
Have ya checked out the Nazgul by SD?
It came stock in my Schecter MK7mk2 and hated it right away!
It was cutting but a bit harsh on the highs, maybe it works better in basswood.


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## skmanga (Aug 24, 2018)

My mistake, accidental double post.


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## lurè (Aug 24, 2018)

Weird, I've a set of juggs in an RGD 2127 and i don't have the muddiness you mention, and I play in drop G.

+1 for the Nazgul: works really well in mahogany and dark guitars in general.
Other cool SD option is the Omega


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## bostjan (Aug 24, 2018)

I've tried a few BKP over the years. None of them have been "muddy," but some of their pickups have a peculiar mid range bump that I don't particularly like, but others don't have that characteristic.


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## teqnick (Aug 24, 2018)

lurè said:


> Weird, I've a set of juggs in an RGD 2127 and i don't have the muddiness you mention, and I play in drop G.
> 
> +1 for the Nazgul: works really well in mahogany and dark guitars in general.
> Other cool SD option is the Omega




From what I remember, basswood is the ideal tonewood pairing for Juggernauts. They're actually pretty okay in the Misha sig.

Nazgul is really good in mahogany, but there's a little fizz that I couldn't tame. 

My current favorites for mahogany from BKP are the blackhawk and ragnarok.


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## lurè (Aug 24, 2018)

Yes, they have been developed to work best with basswood since it should be neutral sounding.
Not sure if Misha's sig are basswood or alder, anyway it wouldn't change much.

Ragnarok is more upper mid focused than the juggernaut and should be an overall improvement on a dark sounding guitar, assuming that you like the increased output.


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## Chrisesp (Aug 25, 2018)

lurè said:


> Weird, I've a set of juggs in an RGD 2127 and i don't have the muddiness you mention, and I play in drop G.
> 
> +1 for the Nazgul: works really well in mahogany and dark guitars in general.
> Other cool SD option is the Omega



Muddy is perhaps the wrong word. I think they are just very 'big' sounding in the low end. I do have to back the bass back and up the treble to get the desired sound I want. Funnily enough, I think half the problem may have been my axe fx II. I've just sold it and since gotten Schuffam s-gear and I've got a way better tone going on now. 



bostjan said:


> I've tried a few BKP over the years. None of them have been "muddy," but some of their pickups have a peculiar mid range bump that I don't particularly like, but others don't have that characteristic.



Like i said to the guy above, muddy is the wrong word. More 'big' sounding I guess. I'm making them work now I've got Schuffam S-gear. They are pretty tight actually once you dial them in right.


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## Frey (Aug 25, 2018)

I *hate* them in the Swamp Ash/Maple top Halo that I have. Briefly owned a baritone Halo Merus that also had them and disliked them just as much.

For basswood my recommendation would be a Pegasus/Sentient set from SD. I have them in my Ibanez RG1527 and love it.


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 25, 2018)

FitRocker33 said:


> That’s definitely not what I want.
> 
> Looks like I may try a set of KSE Fishmans in that guitar then.



KSE Fishmans are crazy tight, and the low end is cut down quite a lot in voice 1

Voice 2 brings back that low end thickness, so you have it there if you want it (leads/cleans)


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 25, 2018)

I've tried a ton of pickups, but I'll try to limit my recommendations to ones that I've used in my basswood guitars. 
*titan set:* great set if you want a modern sound, though my only real complaint about the bridge pickup is that it's very dry sounding, and takes a gob ton of gain to get a saturated sound. Well, that and it's a ridiculously tight sounding pickup. Probably the tightest bass response I've had from a pickup besides the bkp aftermath or the lundgren m6. The titan bridge is pretty much a tweaked d-activator neck iirc. It's got a very tight bass response, with a full midrange and a warmer high end for the bridge. The neck is great for cleans and soloing and is my favorite neck pickup from dimarzio besides the liquifire (it reminds me of the LF, but a bit sweeter sounding).
*d-activator set:* It had more bass response and more high end than the titan, yet somehow it wasn't quite as clear sounding (likely because it's a hotter pickup with more low end available). Honestly I didn't really like the bridge pickup at all. The sound just wasn't a good fit for my amp. ymmv


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## Chrisesp (Aug 26, 2018)

I'm actually starting to dig these Juggernauts. Here's a real quick clip (excuse this shitty riff) using Overloud TH3.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6hnlalop6x4u1o/7 string test (2).wav?dl=0


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## LeviathanKiller (Aug 27, 2018)

I liked my Juggernaut set (in mahogany) for a while, but really they excel at genres that aren't metal. Pretty laid-back and neutral pickup with medium output with good clarity except for in the lower end. Like KnightBrolaire has stated, they're kind of tubby there. Comparing them with some of my other favorite pickups like the Fishman KM set, Schecter Apocalypse VII set, or Guitarmory Atlas set, they don't have enough bite in the low end that you expect to have when doing any palm muting or chords that need that low-end definition as you hit. I don't have a problem with their midrange voicing like some do, just the low end only. The neck pickup is really nice but after A/Bing it against other sets it lost. The Schecter Apocalypse VII neck is probably my favorite neck pickup right now. I don't know what I'm going to replace mine with yet since I need soapbar pickups but the Juggernauts are definitely coming out.


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