# New carvin 7 string model



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 30, 2011)

I just got the carvin catalog today, and they have a new 7 string model. I looked on carvin.com and it doesnt look to be there yet. And the DC727 and 747(the new one is the 700) arnt in the catalog. I'm assuming they are discontinuing them? Oh, and the 700 has a new headstock on it.


----------



## JPMike (Aug 30, 2011)

We need pictures!! We have to see this, don't we??


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 30, 2011)

There arnt any online.





I took one, but the camera on the ipad sucks.

maple neck through alder. 20'' radis, sperzels, active pups(passive size though)


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 30, 2011)

I hope to God, Zeus, and Thor that they don't discontinue the 7x7 series. Holy cow they are too awesome to get rid of :-/


----------



## Miek (Aug 30, 2011)

I would've preferred them just adding more options to the 7x7s but whatever, as long as they don't discontinue them. Believe it or not, Carvin, not every 7 string player needs a pointy headstock.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 30, 2011)

ALL the other models are in the catalog, and the 727/747 arnt in there. So i'm pretty sure they are gone


----------



## ZXIIIT (Aug 30, 2011)

That headstock looks nice.


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 30, 2011)

Just called Carvin CS. The 727/747 are NOT discontinued.


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

I like that new headstock.
now how about some OFR trems , a neck binding option and something other than a 14" radius????


----------



## thrsher (Aug 30, 2011)

so essentially the dc700 is a new headstock?


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> I like that new headstock.
> now how about some OFR trems , a neck binding option and something other than a 14" radius????



It comes with a 20''


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> It comes with a 20''


only on a fixed bridge


----------



## JPMike (Aug 30, 2011)

ZOMB13 said:


> That headstock looks nice.



+1 I like it very much!!


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 30, 2011)

thrsher said:


> so essentially the dc700 is a new headstock?



It's a bit more than that...

Basically the rep told me that it was to the 7x7 series what the ST300 is to the DC1** series. Some of the features were things that customers ask for consistently as option 50's, and some things were pulled from things they won't do option 50's on, but are asked a lot about anyway (the headstock, for instance).

Specifically, he said it's a touch lighter, has more relief cut on the back and a slightly different overall shape, offers a TOM bridge, new headstock, and the pickups are a bit different. I don't know if that means different electronically, or if it's the same pickups with a differently shaped hole that's more friendly to aftermarkets.


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> only on a fixed bridge



An OFR would require some crazy shimming and a custom nut to really work on a 20" radius board.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> only on a fixed bridge



It doesnt mention it in the catalog. But I have no clue


----------



## ibanezRG1527 (Aug 30, 2011)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

I posted this question up on the Carvin forum and I got a link to the new page
Carvin.com - Custom Shop :: DC700


----------



## Mordacain (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh wow, need to raid my mailbox when I get home and see if Carvin was kind enough to send me a new catalog. 

I like these specs. Personally, I think I will prefer a TOM bridge for 7 string work. I've now owned a 7 with every type of Ibanez bridge (save for the newer Gibraltar bridges) and I just don't really get along with any of them. I'd really like to try the 20" radius as well.


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> An OFR would require some crazy shimming and a custom nut to really work on a 20" radius board.


 not really my BRJ has a 20" radius and it has a floyd. I don't know what Bernie does but he does it right it feels great.


----------



## AvantGuardian (Aug 30, 2011)

Looks like the new headstock and the standard 7 string headstock are available on this one in both regular and reverse configuration. I was going to get a DC727 hardtail but now I've got to decide if I'd rather have the TOM. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> not really my BRJ has a 20" radius and it has a floyd. I don't know what Bernie does but he does it right it feels great.



Weird, as far as I know OFR nuts are all made for a 10" radius.

Bonus, looks like the DC700 has EMG-sized pickups!


----------



## Mordacain (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> I posted this question up on the Carvin forum and I got a link to the new page
> Carvin.com - Custom Shop :: DC700



Hmm, and free case and $100 off in options and the standard $100 off the topic. Man, I wish I had a $1000 to burn.


----------



## Hybrid138 (Aug 30, 2011)

still no larger scale... but I do like the new headstock


----------



## espman (Aug 30, 2011)

20" radius! Awesome new headstock! Holy shit I'm getting one of these


----------



## mikemueller2112 (Aug 30, 2011)

I dig the new headstock. A little aggressive, but not excessive. Really matches the guitar.


----------



## Valennic (Aug 30, 2011)

What they reeeaally should've done was offer the option of a couple new scales. I'd rather see a 26.5 or 27 inch scale option in place of the new guitar.


----------



## espman (Aug 30, 2011)

mikemueller2112 said:


> I dig the new headstock. A little aggressive, but not excessive. Really matches the guitar.


 Agreed, reminds me a lot of the headstock on slsmg's


----------



## SirMyghin (Aug 30, 2011)

So Carvin finally makes industry sized routes, and they are BS oversized EMG routes. Still doesn't have a long scale either, or an OFR, just a small aesthetic change and some huge ass pickups on a 727/747. Pair that with a crappy potmetal ToM. 

Man this thing is a joke.


----------



## Mordacain (Aug 30, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> So Carvin finally makes industry sized routes, and they are BS oversized EMG routes. Still doesn't have a long scale either, or an OFR, just a small aesthetic change and some huge ass pickups on a 727/747. Pair that with a crappy potmetal ToM.
> 
> Man this thing is a joke.



The online builder does have a Floyd option. I'm guessing from your post that means Carvin doesn't use OFRs usually? 

They don't use stainless steel for their bridges either? That does kinda kill the quality argument I've always heard lodged for Carvin. Oh well, thanks for killing my GAS


----------



## SirMyghin (Aug 30, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> The online builder does have a Floyd option. I'm guessing from your post that means Carvin doesn't use OFRs usually?
> 
> They don't use stainless steel for their bridges either? That does kinda kill the quality argument I've always heard lodged for Carvin. Oh well, thanks for killing my GAS



Their ToMs are korea stamped crap, not even Gotohs. Dinky toy bridges. Just like their new bass bridge for the SBs, zinc / pot metal. 

And yes, Carvin 7s have LFRs not OFRs. 6 strings have the real deal though.


----------



## Mordacain (Aug 30, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Their ToMs are korea stamped crap, not even Gotohs. Dinky toy bridges. Just like their new bass bridge for the SBs, zinc / pot metal.
> 
> And yes, Carvin 7s have LFRs not OFRs. 6 strings have the real deal though.



That's lame. Does anyone know offhand if Gotoh or another reputable 3rd party makes a 7 string TOM with a 20" radius? My quick and dirty googling says no...


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

according to the webmaster over on the Carvin forum the pickups are standard sized like the blackout phase II's??
I also asked about the 20" rdius with a floyd an dif we are ever going to see OFR trems on the 7's.
Nice headstock and I like the flatter radius but probably still not enough for me to go down this road again.


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 30, 2011)

^ Blackout phase II is the same size as the EMG 707 and 35-series.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Aug 30, 2011)

Phase II is EMG sized...


----------



## kmanick (Aug 30, 2011)

then I guess I meant phase I ??


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 30, 2011)

Looking at the photos on Carvin's site it seems very clear to me that they're EMG/PhaseII shaped. There are no mounting tabs, just a big rectangular casing with the mounting screws going through the pickup itself rather than a tab outside of it.


----------



## mikemueller2112 (Aug 30, 2011)

kmanick said:


> then I guess I meant phase I ??



Yeah phase I are the ones that fit in guitars routed for passives:

Blackouts 7-string AHB-1 7-str. - Seymour Duncan High Output


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 30, 2011)

had to steal the image to embed it


----------



## Kel668 (Aug 30, 2011)

GAS. Oh the GAS hurts...


----------



## littledoc (Aug 30, 2011)

I do like the headstock, the shape and the option of active pups. And it's definitely nice that they can be swapped out (though I've always like Carvin's pups). But I'm definitely not feeling like I missed out with my new 727.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 30, 2011)

Huh. I'm a big fan of ToMs, as I've gotten quite used to the one on my DR7. Shame about the pickup routes on this, because otherwise it'd be a nice option for getting a suped-up version of the DR7 without breaking the bank.


----------



## Miek (Aug 30, 2011)

I... 
Carvin, why?  At least they didn't discontinue the 7x7 series.


----------



## thrsher (Aug 30, 2011)

i prob will order one in the future, they recess the bridge on the TOM, i like the few changes now looking future into it....although diffrent scale lengths would have been better


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Aug 30, 2011)

would like it better in a 27"


----------



## Homebrew1709 (Aug 30, 2011)

AvantGuardian said:


> Looks like the new headstock and the standard 7 string headstock are available on this one in both regular and reverse configuration. I was going to get a DC727 hardtail but now I've got to decide if I'd rather have the TOM. Decisions, decisions.



My first Carvin 6er had the hardtail and my most recent one has the TOM...I regret getting the TOM on the new one - the hardtail is 100x more comfortable IMO and making adjustments is soooo much easier on the hardtail than the TOM.


----------



## krovx (Aug 30, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Their ToMs are korea stamped crap, not even Gotohs. Dinky toy bridges. Just like their new bass bridge for the SBs, zinc / pot metal.
> 
> And yes, Carvin 7s have LFRs not OFRs. 6 strings have the real deal though.



Not sure if you are only speaking about the 7 string TOM bridges...which they never had before so I don't think so, but all my Carvin TOMs have been Gotoh Japan.


----------



## Dayn (Aug 31, 2011)

Not bad at all. Now if they just didn't bilk overseas customers, I'd consider one.


----------



## MikeH (Aug 31, 2011)

Sherman-ish headstock? I like.


----------



## littledoc (Aug 31, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Their ToMs are korea stamped crap, not even Gotohs. Dinky toy bridges. Just like their new bass bridge for the SBs, zinc / pot metal.
> 
> And yes, Carvin 7s have LFRs not OFRs. 6 strings have the real deal though.




Virtually all ToMs are made of zinc alloy, including Gotohs, because of the complexity of the shape. There are a handful of aluminum ToMs out there and they are exorbitantly expensive (like, $200) &#8211; far too expensive to be used on any production guitar. 

Carvin's LFR is made of hardened steel, just like a regular OFR. The reason Carvin doesn't use an OFR7 is because OFR7s did not exist when they started making 7-strings, and they don't want to re-design their neck to accommodate an OFR when their LFR is already of comparable quality. 

Personally though, I think that if one is jonesing for a guitar with a trem, the Ibanez ZR and Edge Zero absolutely slay an OFR in every respect.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Aug 31, 2011)

littledoc said:


> Virtually all ToMs are made of zinc alloy, including Gotohs, because of the complexity of the shape. There are a handful of aluminum ToMs out there and they are exorbitantly expensive (like, $200)  far too expensive to be used on any production guitar.
> 
> Carvin's LFR is made of hardened steel, just like a regular OFR. The reason Carvin doesn't use an OFR7 is because OFR7s did not exist when they started making 7-strings, and they don't want to re-design their neck to accommodate an OFR when their LFR is already of comparable quality.
> 
> Personally though, I think that if one is jonesing for a guitar with a trem, the Ibanez ZR and Edge Zero absolutely slay an OFR in every respect.



Carvin's LFR is not near OFR quality; I'm pretty sure it's actually a TRS unit


----------



## Ishan (Aug 31, 2011)

Carvin are funny, the very community they are targeting with this just spit on every decision they've made. Irony


----------



## littledoc (Aug 31, 2011)

wannabguitarist said:


> Carvin's LFR is not near OFR quality; I'm pretty sure it's actually a TRS unit



I have no idea who manufactures their LFR, but not only are the materials the same, but having owned another guitar with an OFR that I could compare side to side to the Carvin, there is no discernible difference in either materials or functionality.


----------



## Toxin (Aug 31, 2011)

Ibz_rg said:


> Sherman-ish headstock? I like.



More like conclin-ish to me 8)


----------



## JaeSwift (Aug 31, 2011)

I recall someone saying Carvin's 7 string LFR is actually made by Schaller, the same people that afaik made the OFR's as well. 

Also, bloody Carvin (and the Dutch distributor) have blocked acces to the US carvin website from Dutch I.P's. Can't check out the new model and all it's customisable specs


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 31, 2011)

wannabguitarist said:


> Carvin's LFR is not near OFR quality; I'm pretty sure it's actually a TRS unit



I beg to differ...I've used both, as well as various Ibanez versions, and the difference isn't much. It's only a hair stiffer, but I'm still able to do all the usual tricks with no problem.

The Ibanez Edge Pro II on the other hand...


----------



## davefoxtattoos (Aug 31, 2011)

I dig the new DC700 and will probably be ordering it. I have a 727 and the body sculpt is uncomfortable, I was thinking about getting one with rounded edges but I don't like how that looks and I think the 700 solves that issue. I also like m bridges better than the fixed bridge on the 727. Most Carvin bridges are Gotoh, which is among the good quality TOM bridges. Pot metal or not, unless you're buying a guitar for $3G or more, chances are that's the best you'll get. (I thought I read somewhere that the LFR is a Gotoh as well, and is supposed to be made of the same materials as the OFR, but I can't stand Floyds anyway.) I'm into the new pointy headstock (and the old HS is available in reverse now too which is cool). I tune standard, so 25.5" is perfect for me. The 20" radius should be sweet, and where else can I get $3500 worth of guitar for $1500?
I give Carvin a big thumbs up on this one


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 31, 2011)

davefoxtattoos said:


> I dig the new DC700 and will probably be ordering it. I have a 727 and the body sculpt is uncomfortable, I was thinking about getting one with rounded edges but I don't like how that looks and I think the 700 solves that issue. I also like m bridges better than the fixed bridge on the 727. Most Carvin bridges are Gotoh, which is among the good quality TOM bridges. Pot metal or not, unless you're buying a guitar for $3G or more, chances are that's the best you'll get. (I thought I read somewhere that the LFR is a Gotoh as well, and is supposed to be made of the same materials as the OFR, but I can't stand Floyds anyway.) I'm into the new pointy headstock (and the old HS is available in reverse now too which is cool). I tune standard, so 25.5" is perfect for me. The 20" radius should be sweet, and where else can I get $3500 worth of guitar for $1500?
> I give Carvin a big thumbs up on this one



The Carvin LFR is a Takeuchi. Been that way since 93-94, I think.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 31, 2011)

*yawn*


----------



## HighGain510 (Aug 31, 2011)

Hybrid138 said:


> still no larger scale... but I do like the new headstock



Yeah honestly Carvin confuses the fuck out of me sometimes... "options our customers keep asking for as option 50"? Huh... last I checked when they said "fix your pickup routes so we can throw passive pickups in there, they were NOT asking for EMG-shaped routes.   Swing and a miss there. Headstock is okay, I'd need to see higher quality pictures before I could say I love or hate it, but as someone else said it really looks like a Conklin headstock. Other than that I don't see why they chose to focus on making a 7-string ST300 instead of keeping the DC model as-is and making the option for an extended scale version.  Ah well, guess no more Carvin 7's for me, they seem to cater to a very ODD section of their "audience", not sure how many guys have been begging for a 7-string ST300 but I could bet it's probably less than those asking for an ERG version of the DC7 series.


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Aug 31, 2011)

Also, good news: Carvin just updated their website, and the new headstock is an option on the 727/747 as well.


----------



## Ishan (Aug 31, 2011)

We should have a poll and throw the result to Carvin on what option should have been available instead of that mess.
I guess SS.org is not representative of the 7 strings community enough, because most "metal" 7 strings I see these days have EMG routes...


----------



## SirMyghin (Aug 31, 2011)

krovx said:


> Not sure if you are only speaking about the 7 string TOM bridges...which they never had before so I don't think so, but all my Carvin TOMs have been Gotoh Japan.



We had some coming up recently that were not Japan, they were Korea. Last 2-3 years or so. I am speaking about the 6 string ones too, assuming they use the same supplier (would make sense).



HighGain510 said:


> Yeah honestly Carvin confuses the fuck out of me sometimes... "options our customers keep asking for as option 50"? Huh... last I checked when they said "fix your pickup routes so we can throw passive pickups in there, they were NOT asking for EMG-shaped routes.   Swing and a miss there. Headstock is okay, I'd need to see higher quality pictures before I could say I love or hate it, but as someone else said it really looks like a Conklin headstock. Other than that I don't see why they chose to focus on making a 7-string ST300 instead of keeping the DC model as-is and making the option for an extended scale version.  Ah well, guess no more Carvin 7's for me, they seem to cater to a very ODD section of their "audience", not sure how many guys have been begging for a 7-string ST300 but I could bet it's probably less than those asking for an ERG version of the DC7 series.



Said it before and I'll say it again, they are concerned with doing minimum work to release new models/options, hence most everything is an aesthetic change, not something real change. People asked for a bolt on tele, they got a strat with a filled in upper horn. Ooooh look, pearl tuning buttons, new inlays, or something of that variety. To make a 24 fret Carved top they moved the bridge and made the neck longer (which makes it look disproportionate). And then they go on to wonder why they don't get the sales projected on them, and are weary to do other projects.


----------



## Speculum Speculorum (Aug 31, 2011)

Well, it's a bit different than the 7x7 series. But in my tiny little humble opinion, it looks like a Schecter or ESP with a fat ass. There. I said it.

As for the pickup routes - oh well. The guitar as a whole honestly doesn't do it for me. Although the price is right (about $1,500 with bells and whistles), I just can't get over the fact that it reminds me of a Schecter Damien that this kid I used to teach played. And I hated that guitar. Felt like cardboard. Weird how the mind works, huh?


----------



## kmanick (Aug 31, 2011)

shanejohnson02 said:


> The Carvin LFR is a Takeuchi. Been that way since 93-94, I think.


The metal on the one I had was so soft it was a joke. stayed in tune just fine, but when I dropped in an OFR my guitar suddenly sounded a lot better. 
CARVIN!!!!! pay attention!!!!!


----------



## Born4metal85 (Aug 31, 2011)

it's a pity...I have 2100 now for a new 7string...my odering is in process...I asked for a 727...last time I was asked 3055 for a simple Koa...it's a pity...If I'd live in the US I could buy two out of 2100 USD...EU I hate you...


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Aug 31, 2011)

I like the new headstock. I am, however, dissappointed (though not suprised) that they went with the TOM bridge. I guess it wouldn't be an issue at all with me if they allowed the original fixed bridge as an option.  Anyway, I don't mean to complain. Hooray for Carvin releasing something new. Maybe down the road if/when I get a second Carvin I can get a DC727/747 with the pointy headstock.


----------



## Xaios (Aug 31, 2011)

I also really dig the new headstock, very aesthetically pleasing. However, like pretty much everyone else, the EMG routes coupled with Carvin's prolonged refusal to start using OFR7 trems, even on instruments approaching $2,000 in value, is discouraging. I know Carvin are generally high quality, but the TRS trem really drags it down for me. I've only played a few, but the experience has been markedly negative on the ones I've tried. The Edge Pro 7 on my RG1527 stays in tune far better, and that's without the locking stud mod.


----------



## GiantBaba (Aug 31, 2011)

This is a nice new option, but I am VERY glad the didn't discontinue the 7x7's.


----------



## Cancer (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm ordering one, f*ck it. MoLdy needs a twin, and I need a guitar without a Floyd.


----------



## JaeSwift (Aug 31, 2011)

Cancer said:


> I'm ordering one, f*ck it. MoLdy needs a twin, and I need a guitar without a Floyd.



Moldy?


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 31, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> Moldy?



Its a pretty badass(its green, hence the name)


----------



## Cancer (Aug 31, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> Moldy?



Pics of Moldy


----------



## HighGain510 (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm going to go ahead and help Carvin out on this one... here's what you guys need to do if you would like to increase your sales of 7-strings TREMENDOUSLY:

1) Add option for 27" scale necks
2) Make a 7-string version of the CT series... want to tap the market PRS is completely missing? Do that and I'm positive you'd sell a bundle (including one to me, if #1 is added as well)
3) Please.... for fuck's sake... USE A STANDARD PASSIVE ROUTE ALREADY!   

Follow those three steps... you know, the ones your customers have ACTUALLY been asking for... and you'll sell a boatload of 7's. 

P.S. While my statement above might almost seem like one of those "Well ______ should add ____, ____ and ______ and then I'd TOTALLY buy one!" and then not buy one posts, if they did the above, I'd buy a CT-shaped 7-string with 27" scale in the radiation green in a heartbeat.  I've bought more than enough Carvins new in the past to prove I will put my money where my mouth is if they will deliver. Not to mention it's true, what are the three things everyone always bitches about Carvin not doing? The three above.


----------



## Mendez (Aug 31, 2011)

^I vote for this! 

Also HighGain should be SSO's spokesperson


----------



## troyguitar (Aug 31, 2011)

OFR >> 27" scale


----------



## Miek (Aug 31, 2011)

I'd be happy if they just used normal pickup routes, but I wouldn't complain about those other things either.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Aug 31, 2011)

Now that I think about it, what they've done is made a $1k LTD 7.


----------



## SirMyghin (Aug 31, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> I'm going to go ahead and help Carvin out on this one... here's what you guys need to do if you would like to increase your sales of 7-strings TREMENDOUSLY:
> 
> 1) Add option for 27" scale necks
> 2) Make a 7-string version of the CT series... want to tap the market PRS is completely missing? Do that and I'm positive you'd sell a bundle (including one to me, if #1 is added as well)
> ...



If it came out tonight, I would actually buy that tomorrow (minus the CT shape, I would prefer it a bolt on ), even with my current distrust of them, I too could back it, having bought 3 in the past. All from the factory to order. The problem is ofcourse us, not them though. We need a slightly more cost effective, quality, american long scale 7 with options. There is nothing under 3k I would buy.


----------



## Hybrid138 (Sep 1, 2011)

What *HighGain510 said minus the Radiation Green 

*


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Sep 1, 2011)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Now that I think about it, what they've done is made a $1k LTD 7.



Except a carvin would outplay a ltd anyday.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Sep 1, 2011)

God damn it - why introduce all these cool features now and saddle us poor Euro-slobs with the Dealers. If I get the cash together, I may entice an amenable forumite into acting as a go-between - 20" radius + that new headstock pretty much made me happy in the pants  There's also a picture here of a fitted LFR - no idea how they're proceeding with nut/bridge radius...


----------



## davefoxtattoos (Sep 1, 2011)

I've had a CT6 before and the edge was annoying. I think the 700 forearm cut will be much more comfortable.


----------



## XEN (Sep 1, 2011)

meh

*This* is what the customers have been asking for: baritone scales, single cut 7s, bolt-on 7s, 7 string V or X series, 7 string C series, piezo option on 7s, active pickup (rout) _option_, 8 strings, etc....


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Sep 1, 2011)

urklvt said:


> meh
> 
> *This* is what _SS.org has_ been asking for: baritone scales, single cut 7s, bolt-on 7s, 7 string V or X series, 7 string C series, piezo option on 7s, active pickup (rout) _option_, 8 strings, etc....


 
Fixed.


----------



## XEN (Sep 1, 2011)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Fixed.


I've hung out on the Carvin forums long enough to know it's not just us asking for some new shizz.


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh, I hear ya. Don't mind me, I'm just joshing around.

As stated before, it seems like 'we listened to our customers' translates to 'we looked at what Schecter and LTD sells and made a new model'.  Crazy Carvin, bein' all behind the times and junk.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 1, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> I'm going to go ahead and help Carvin out on this one... here's what you guys need to do if you would like to increase your sales of 7-strings TREMENDOUSLY:
> 
> 1) Add option for 27" scale necks
> 2) Make a 7-string version of the CT series... want to tap the market PRS is completely missing? Do that and I'm positive you'd sell a bundle (including one to me, if #1 is added as well)
> ...


 
Here's an even better idea:

Make all current 6-string models available in a 7-string. 

Carvin move enough inventory to invest in some slight programming. Even if it costs them $100,000 they'd easily recoup that in less than a decade, likely only a few years, time from all of the 7-string "PRS" and "Teles" that PRS and Fender are missing out on respectively. 

Lets say, on average, most 7x7s wind up coming out at $1500. Lets say half is profit, so only $750. They would need to move less than 140 7-strings to recoup the costs. 

In the three years I've been on the forum, I've seen dozens of Carvin 7s. So it certainly seems really possible to move that many in a relatively short period of time. Not to mention all the folks willing to shell out $$$$ for a PRS-style 7.


----------



## Born4metal85 (Sep 1, 2011)

JaeSwift said:


> I recall someone saying Carvin's 7 string LFR is actually made by Schaller, the same people that afaik made the OFR's as well.
> 
> Also, bloody Carvin (and the Dutch distributor) have blocked acces to the US carvin website from Dutch I.P's. Can't check out the new model and all it's customisable specs


http://www.carvinguitars.com/cart/buildGuitar.php?model=dc700


----------



## XEN (Sep 1, 2011)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Oh, I hear ya. Don't mind me, I'm just joshing around.
> 
> As stated before, it seems like 'we listened to our customers' translates to 'we looked at what Schecter and LTD sells and made a new model'.  Crazy Carvin, bein' all behind the times and junk.


lol true!
Now if one country music guitar player wanted a Carvin 8.....


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Sep 1, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Except a carvin would outplay a ltd anyday.


 
Which would be what makes it a *$1k* LTD 7.


----------



## JaeSwift (Sep 1, 2011)

Born4metal85 said:


> http://www.carvinguitars.com/cart/buildGuitar.php?model=dc700



Thanks a lot mate

And yea, the euro Carvin dealer situation is still too ridiculous for me to order one. When the time comes that I have the cash and decide I want one instead of build one I'll hit up one of you yanks 

The only viable ERG option outside of Carvin is Strictly 7, unfortunatly import costs are still quite high for us Europeans but it seems like their way more of an alternative now. Really hope Carvin takes note some day.

EDIT: Could someone link me the builder of an NT7 (Neck thru 7 neck) ?


----------



## Shannon (Sep 1, 2011)

A DC700 was unnecessary. They should've added these "options" to the list of options for the existing DC7x7 series & concentrated on making 7-string options for their range of instruments. 

And WTH is it so difficult for them to offer a 7-inline headstock & standard passive pickup routes?  

Oh, I would snag a CT 7-string in a heartbeat.


----------



## Koshchei (Sep 1, 2011)

wannabguitarist said:


> Carvin's LFR is not near OFR quality; I'm pretty sure it's actually a TRS unit



I don't know who makes it (like you, I suspect that it's a Japanese-made TRS), but it actually is comparable. I've had both on my 747, and the difference is negligible. I switched back to the LFR a few years ago because I preferred the tighter string spacing. 

The only thing that the LFR fails on is fluttering. It can't get those wide oscillations going because there's not enough weight around the fine tuners. The gold plating is also quite thin compared to an OFR7.

edit: My take on the 700 is that it's a refinement of the 7x7 series. It looks a little more modern, has improved ergonomics, improved aesthetics, a flatter standard FB (big win imo), and a ToM (also big win). I don't care about the active pickups, or the pickup routing size, as I really like the 7x7's C26s. It's a beautiful guitar, and if it plays anything like a 7x7, it's a winner.

With respect to the tears and disappointment on this forum because they didn't hear your cries for a longer scale from far outfield, I suspect that Carvin is being cautious about the instruments it releases because of its cachet as a very high quality guitar maker in conjunction with the horrendous economic situation. They produce about 2500 instruments a year, most of which are bought by older people who are sick of dropping $6k every year on a piece-of-shit Relic that's closer to but still not quite exactly a 1959 LP. After having being abused by Gibson for years, to these people, seeing a CS6 is like discovering the holy grail in your dishwasher. To Carvin, as a target demographic goes, they're low hanging fruit, buy a ton of tricked out product, and don't ask for much, other than a really high quality instrument. Read the forum: They spend weeks obsessing about whether or not to include stainless frets with their order; something that you or I wouldn't think twice about getting.

I can't pretend to know Carvin's stance, but I suspect that the 125 or so 7 strings that they produce a year just isn't a good enough reason to produce a 25-27" compound scale 8 string Flying V in radiation green with non-Carvin pickup routes, an AANJ bolt design, with a ball-bearing floating bridge made of cold-forged stainless steel. I'd love to see a tastefully done ergonomic 8 string with a compound scale, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## lurgar (Sep 1, 2011)

Well, I at least liked the options and changes that they made. If I wasn't saving up for a new amp, I'd be gunning for one of these.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Sep 2, 2011)

> edit: My take on the 700 is that it's a refinement of the 7x7 series. It looks a little more modern, has improved ergonomics, improved aesthetics, a flatter standard FB (big win imo), and a ToM (also big win). I don't care about the active pickups, or the pickup routing size, as I really like the 7x7's C26s. It's a beautiful guitar, and if it plays anything like a 7x7, it's a winner.




I love the 20" radius, I like the new headstock, improved ergonomics also sound great and I also like the C26's with some tweaking so really, this is a great guitar in my book. I'd still like to be sure they are actually installing 20" nuts and matching the LFR bridge to the radius but I'd get one.

Except for the obvious 

Whilst I consider it - would it be a popular option to have a non-locking tremolo installed? The demographic seems to be firmly TOM/LFR but surely there must be some love for Wilkinson/Gotoh?


----------



## syndrone (Sep 2, 2011)

needs longer scale!
never understood the hype about carvin guitars though...


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Sep 2, 2011)

Shannon said:


> A DC700 was unnecessary. They should've added these "options" to the list of options for the existing DC7x7 series & concentrated on making 7-string options for their range of instruments.



Nah, that would make too much sense.

_"So we're meeting today to discuss what our customers want from our 7-string line."

"Our customers are asking for extended scale lengths, standard pick-up routes, and 7-string versions of our other popular models."__

"Bull****! Our customers would complain if we hung them with new rope. 7-strings with EMG's and TOM bridges sell- let's slap those on our DC7 line and give it a new headstock. Waa-laa! We have a new model! Money money money!"

_


> never understood the hype about carvin guitars though...



Neither did I- until I got one.


----------



## renzoip (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't care much for longer scales, just a better quality trem would make me happy. Doesn't have to be an OFR, just a trem with a solid feel like the OFR that can keep the narrower string spacing like the current carvin LFR does.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 2, 2011)

Koshchei said:


> I can't pretend to know Carvin's stance, but I suspect that the 125 or so 7 strings that they produce a year just isn't a good enough reason to produce a 25-27" compound scale 8 string Flying V in radiation green with non-Carvin pickup routes, an AANJ bolt design, with a ball-bearing floating bridge made of cold-forged stainless steel. I'd love to see a tastefully done ergonomic 8 string with a compound scale, but I'm not holding my breath.


 
I'm sorry, I know you're a hardcore Carvinite, we've had numerous conversations as such, but please don't patronize us. 

We're asking for a few basic things, and have been asking for the better part of six years for a few minor spec tweaks. Of course some people on the fringe ask for some crazy stuff, but come on. 

We're (and I mean this community as a whole) asking for a single added scale. One which is becoming quite popular, and numerous companies have employed. That's the 27" scale. 

We're asking for industry standard pickup routes. To my knowledge Carvin is the only mainstream guitar maker whose passive equipped 7-string guitars use a route than neither Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, or Bareknuckle pickups fit into without modification. 

We're asking for body designs they already make. If they were able to add a string to the DC400, then they sure can add a string to the CT, Bolt, ST, etc. 

They already have the facilities, all they really need is the programming. Heck, they even the have the greater majority of the hardware. 

I don't mean this post as an offense to you, but please, realize the three things primarily being asked for are not out of the question. If they can take the time to program an all new, not asked for, headstock and body contours, they can sure program some new industry standard pickup routes.


----------



## guitarister7321 (Sep 2, 2011)

Shit's boss. Definitely GASing really hard.

And now I remember taking a shit yesterday while reading an old Carvin catalog and was like "I wish they made a 7 with string-through tune-o-matic."

Wish granted.


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Sep 2, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> ...If they were able to add a string to the DC400, then they sure can add a string to the CT, Bolt, ST, etc.
> 
> They already have the facilities, all they really need is the programming. Heck, they even the have the greater majority of the hardware.



Do you think they might be taking it slow, then- releasing one new 7-string model at a time? Maybe it's a encouraging thing to see them release a 7-string version of another model. I mean, I can see them wanting to test the waters and see how the DC700 sells before making a decision on adding strings to other models.

Of course, on our side we know we'd buy X or Y model Carvin if it had 7 strings, but they don't want to take our word for it.


----------



## Born4metal85 (Sep 2, 2011)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Do you think they might be taking it slow, then- releasing one new 7-string model at a time? Maybe it's a encouraging thing to see them release a 7-string version of another model. I mean, I can see them wanting to test the waters and see how the DC700 sells before making a decision on adding strings to other models.
> 
> Of course, on our side we know we'd buy X or Y model Carvin if it had 7 strings, but they don't want to take our word for it.



I was feeling the same way. Sorry dudes I don't support dc700  Yestarday I ordered a dc 727 with regular head 

I think they will release an 8 string version of both plus baritone and other neck options in the future....yeah this is now a "test"


----------



## Hybrid138 (Sep 2, 2011)

I have to agree with you JPhoenix19. This is probably their way checking to see if an investment in further diversifying their 7-string line is valuable to them. IMO I don't like that they chose to do the DC700 first, I think a CT would have kicked major ass, but apparently people are interested. 

Like someone else said, sorry to lazy to go back and find it, they made something similar to what Schecter and LTD/ESP are selling. Those companies sell a good amount of 7s so they want their piece of the cake and I hope they take off so they can start making the 7s that "we" are looking for.


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Sep 2, 2011)

Hybrid138 said:


> I have to agree with you JPhoenix19. This is probably their way checking to see if an investment in further diversifying their 7-string line is valuable to them. IMO I don't like that they chose to do the DC700 first, I think a CT would have kicked major ass, but apparently people are interested.
> 
> Like someone else said, sorry to lazy to go back and find it, they made something similar to what Schecter and LTD/ESP are selling. Those companies sell a good amount of 7s so they want their piece of the cake and I hope they take off so they can start making the 7s that "we" are looking for.



maybe we'll all have to run out and buy a DC700 so they'll be encouraged to produce other 7-string models. We can always sell our DC700's later, right?  All the internet feedback in the world can't talk as loud as profits.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Sep 2, 2011)

JPhoenix19 said:


> All the internet feedback in the world can't talk as loud as profits.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 2, 2011)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Do you think they might be taking it slow, then- releasing one new 7-string model at a time? Maybe it's a encouraging thing to see them release a 7-string version of another model. I mean, I can see them wanting to test the waters and see how the DC700 sells before making a decision on adding strings to other models.
> 
> Of course, on our side we know we'd buy X or Y model Carvin if it had 7 strings, but they don't want to take our word for it.


 
I'd _love_ to think that this is the beginning of some giant Carvin 7-string roll out extravaganza, but given the token 7-string options in the past I just don't see it. 

I really _want_ to be wrong. Trust me. 

According to Carvin, the DC700 is the DC7x7, just with some minor tweaks. Why bring out a whole new model, with absolutely nothing I've seen asked for here or elsewhere on the net including the BBS, just to test the waters. They already have a 7-string (I say "a" because no way is that two different models, the DC727 and DC747.) in the lineup to test the waters with.


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 2, 2011)

> According to Carvin, the DC700 is the DC7x7, just with some minor tweaks. Why bring out a whole new model, with absolutely nothing I've seen asked for here or elsewhere on the net including the BBS, just to test the waters. They already have a 7-string (I say "a" because no way is that two different models, the DC727 and DC747.) in the lineup to test the waters with.



Because it is an excuse not to expand the line further. They have done it with other models, introduced something half assed, then complained it didn't sell well, and 'all the people who said they would buy it didn't'. Meanwhile they didn't actually deliver what was asked for, and are still shocked it didn't sell. I don't understand it in the least, but that tends to be the thoughts. 

I also agree , there is 1 seven string there. A change in a bridge or a headstock in their case, adding a pickup, does not define the model. Then again look at the DC (neckthrough line) same crap 







syndrone said:


> needs longer scale!
> never understood the hype about carvin guitars though...



They are a bit over hyped, not to mention having a severe fanboy following. They are a good guitar, for a good price, but not much beyond that.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Sep 2, 2011)

> I don't mean this post as an offense to you, but please, realize the three things primarily being asked for are not out of the question. If they can take the time to program an all new, not asked for, headstock and body contours, they can sure program some new industry standard pickup routes.



If they can release a model with those features after listening to their customer base, then conveniently ignore the standardized pickup routes and scale length requests you do have to wonder what the hell they're thinking  

Actually skip that, they're thinking about the options they already offer which were popular or options they could include with minimal re-programing/re-tooling........actually providing other features that would prove popular but didn't exist (scale length, pickup routes, alternate models) based on whatever amount of units per year they shift is apparently either not cost-effective or simply too forward-thinking. 

Then again, I'm fairly certain that if they listened to the customers and did some research and implemented some new ideas they would increase their share of the market......


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 2, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Here's an even better idea:
> 
> Make all current 6-string models available in a 7-string.
> 
> ...




While I certainly agree it would be awesome to see their other models put out as 7's, I have also learned over time that I cannot:

a) Tell a company "you'll easily recoup that $100,000...." as they'll tell you to fuck right off since it's their huge investment, not yours 

and

b) If they did that I get the feeling the tooling cost COULD be more expensive than that and if they start doing that for all the models and 3/4 of them don't sell more than a couple units they wouldn't end up getting that investment back. 

Sad but true, however the other stuff is only asking for options that are way more manageable to program for the CNC stuff so it's not asking the world of them, and they'd probably get back more from investing in making their passive routes a standard size or allowing OFR-7's instead of LFR-7s as that's more of what the market is demanding IMO.

That said, I wouldn't kick a Holdsworth FB2-7 out of bed....


----------



## Church2224 (Sep 2, 2011)

Not digging it really the headstock looks good, but why not just an inline 7, or new pickups routes or the OFR like everyone asks for? 

Only thing they have released in the past few years that actually got my attention was the ST300.. 

All they do is cosmetic stuff too, finishes, hardware and knob options, ect. Nothing in the means of new neck carves, new radius, (they had compound radius boards for a bit then dropped them....why?) nothing along the lines of new pickups, ect. They need some substance. 

Suhr, G&L, Tom Anderson, Mcnaught, Stinett, Stricktly 7 they all have options like that, Hell Suhr is all CNC like Carvin and look at all their options. 

I first thought I understood the hype about Carvins, then I got two, now I do not understand the hype they get and their beyond extreme cult following. I mean they are GOOD guitars, but not GREAT.


----------



## Cancer (Sep 2, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I first thought I understood the hype about Carvins, then I got two, now I do not understand the hype they get and their beyond extreme cult following. I mean they are GOOD guitars, but not GREAT.




Sometimes good is enough, especially when you build up a comfort level with their guitars, then you tack on the fact that it doesn't take forever to get one.

ps... I'm ordering one next week.


----------



## Koshchei (Sep 2, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm sorry, I know you're a hardcore Carvinite, we've had numerous conversations as such, but please don't patronize us.



Who is "us", and what are the perks? Just asking, because apparently I'm not a member. What was the shibboleth that gave me away? 

I do like Carvin guitars, and I spend more time on the Carvin forums than I do here, for various reasons. The biggest of these is to bug them to make an affordable 8 string that isn't hit or miss, like Rondo or Ibanez. 

I also really like GKG Turbulence guitars. My F-1 is one of the fastest nicest playing guitars I've ever used. I'm a little scared to play out with it though, as GKG isn't making 36 fretters anymore. The reason that I'm not bugging Leo for an 8 string is that he simply doesn't have the economy of scale to make them built-to-order and affordable. It would be a waste of his time and mine to ask him to make a $1500 8 string with hundreds of options available and Suhr attention to detail. Remember the Roter fiasco? It's simply not realistically achievable.



> We're asking for a few basic things, and have been asking for the better part of six years for a few minor spec tweaks. Of course some people on the fringe ask for some crazy stuff, but come on.
> 
> We're (and I mean this community as a whole) asking for a single added scale. One which is becoming quite popular, and numerous companies have employed. That's the 27" scale.



They have a product suggestion section that they absolutely do pay attention to, and if you want to see this option, go and make noise there. Last time I looked, the number of ERG advocates there could be counted on one hand, with me being the loudest.



> We're asking for industry standard pickup routes. To my knowledge Carvin is the only mainstream guitar maker whose passive equipped 7-string guitars use a route than neither Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, or Bareknuckle pickups fit into without modification.



Carvin's official stance on this issue is pretty crystal clear, and I know you know it. That they released a standard size active shows a real thaw going on internally.



> We're asking for body designs they already make. If they were able to add a string to the DC400, then they sure can add a string to the CT, Bolt, ST, etc.
> 
> They already have the facilities, all they really need is the programming. Heck, they even the have the greater majority of the hardware.



Remember Darren's post a few years ago about the br00talz realities of guitar making, and how programming a new design is a little more involved than a guy with a basic understanding of XML and Notepad adding another string during his coffee-break on his Macbook?

Make a business case for it by showing Carvin that there's a market, and then don't puss out by faking a major appliance failure when they do it.



> I don't mean this post as an offense to you, but please, realize the three things primarily being asked for are not out of the question. If they can take the time to program an all new, not asked for, headstock and body contours, they can sure program some new industry standard pickup routes.



Pretty sure they were asked for... from what I've read, they incorporated the most commonly ORDERED option 50 and regular features into the new design.

No offense taken.


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 2, 2011)

Koshchei said:


> Pretty sure they were asked for... from what I've read, they incorporated the most commonly ORDERED option 50 and regular features into the new design.



Well sure, STANDARD passive pickup routes (you know, the ones the REST of the industry uses? ) couldn't possibly be the most commonly ordered option since they refuse to do it, even as an option 50. See the flaw in your logic there?


----------



## Koshchei (Sep 3, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> Well sure, STANDARD passive pickup routes (you know, the ones the REST of the industry uses? ) couldn't possibly be the most commonly ordered option since they refuse to do it, even as an option 50. See the flaw in your logic there?



I don't see a flaw in anything, since I addressed it specifically two paragraphs above your quotation. 

9 out of 10 Doctors agree: Pulling things out of context just so you can be right makes you look like a douche. 

You know? I miss the days where ss.org was progressive and radical, where every single thread didn't read like Craig's List's Missed Connections Section. I've had my fill of "New (Used) RG7321 super customized with white automotive pin striping, Elmer's glue and macaroni" and "My comprehensive list of the guitars I wish I owned today", so see you in a year or two.


----------



## Speculum Speculorum (Sep 3, 2011)

Whoa there fellas. Let's not get all animals-on-the-internet up in here. A couple of points on how they go about making guitars at a semi-custom production level.

They aren't a full-on custom shop. They've got to mash things into a mold and punch those puppies out in order to compete with the electric market that is Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, Schecter, ESP/LTD, Jackson, etc. 

When you back up and look at it, Carvin makes good money. But they cannot come close to competing with the brand recognition of even the first two companies I mentioned. If you ask a non-musician about Fender/Gibson, they likely know they make guitars. And even those companies don't stray too far from a successful model they've been using for years and years.

All of the changes on the new Carvin are pretty superflous and cosmetic. They can still use the same wood blocks for their necks and bodies as before.

The pickups thing I don't get. My best guess is that they are sticking with a size model that they either had on hand or could get for the cheapest investment for their return. But I'm sure it basically came down to cold, hard economics.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Sep 3, 2011)

Koshchei said:


> 9 out of 10 Doctors agree: Pulling things out of context just so you can be right makes you look like a douche.



Pot callin the kettle dude. Very unneeded.

As for the cnc programming. I used to run and program cnc machines in metal shops. It is a bit expensive to take time to program, but it's not nearly as expensive as some are suggesting, and once you program in the info you never have to do it again.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 3, 2011)

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but is it really that hard to reprogram something for expanded pickup routes?


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 3, 2011)

Koshchei said:


> I don't see a flaw in anything, since I addressed it specifically two paragraphs above your quotation.
> 
> 9 out of 10 Doctors agree: Pulling things out of context just so you can be right makes you look like a douche.
> 
> You know? I miss the days where ss.org was progressive and radical, where every single thread didn't read like Craig's List's Missed Connections Section. I've had my fill of "New (Used) RG7321 super customized with white automotive pin striping, Elmer's glue and macaroni" and "My comprehensive list of the guitars I wish I owned today", so see you in a year or two.



You made a statement. I quoted exactly what you said, nothing was taken out of context. Then you attempt to call me a douche. Follow it up with a "goodby cruel world!!!" post? Really? Good riddance chief, head back to Harmony Central, that crap isn't needed here.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2011)

Koshchei said:


> Who is "us", and what are the perks? Just asking, because apparently I'm not a member. What was the shibboleth that gave me away?


 
_


Koshchei said:



I can't pretend to know Carvin's stance, but I suspect that the 125 or so 7 strings that they produce a year just isn't a good enough reason to produce a 25-27" compound scale 8 string Flying V in radiation green with non-Carvin pickup routes, an AANJ bolt design, with a ball-bearing floating bridge made of cold-forged stainless steel. I'd love to see a tastefully done ergonomic 8 string with a compound scale, but I'm not holding my breath.

Click to expand...

_ 

So who was that aimed at? The folks asking more from Carvin, more things as crazy as standard pickup routes? Please. 



> I do like Carvin guitars, and I spend more time on the Carvin forums than I do here, for various reasons. The biggest of these is to bug them to make an affordafble 8 string that isn't hit or miss, like Rondo or Ibanez.
> 
> I also really like GKG Turbulence guitars. My F-1 is one of the fastest nicest playing guitars I've ever used. I'm a little scared to play out with it though, as GKG isn't making 36 fretters anymore. The reason that I'm not bugging Leo for an 8 string is that he simply doesn't have the economy of scale to make them built-to-order and affordable. It would be a waste of his time and mine to ask him to make a $1500 8 string with hundreds of options available and Suhr attention to detail. Remember the Roter fiasco? It's simply not realistically achievable.


 
GKG was just recently able to make the new R-729s. They took in input and then made a badass guitrar with tons of requested specs. I can only assume Carvin has more resources than GKG. Thanks for bringing them up. I love GKG. 




> They have a product suggestion section that they absolutely do pay attention to


 
Really? Is that why it took so long to get OFRs, a "Tele" (but not really), and a J-Bass? I sawe people asking for that stuff for decades. 



> Carvin's official stance on this issue is pretty crystal clear, and I know you know it. That they released a standard size active shows a real thaw going on internally.


 
Yeah, I know. Though I still think it's silly. 




> Remember Darren's post a few years ago about the br00talz realities of guitar making, and how programming a new design is a little more involved than a guy with a basic understanding of XML and Notepad adding another string during his coffee-break on his Macbook?


 
There you go, patronizing again. You think I don't know that? Though, it's not like reinventing the wheel. It takes skill and time, but it's obviously something they can do as the 6-string guitars get all kinds of new CNC plotting. 



> Make a business case for it by showing Carvin that there's a market, and then don't puss out by faking a major appliance failure when they do it.


 
I'm not doing Carvin's work for them. It's not my job.



> Pretty sure they were asked for... from what I've read, they incorporated the most commonly ORDERED option 50 and regular features into the new design.


 
Oh yeah, there's no way they embellished a little.  Also, since the Option 50 thing is so inane at times it seems like they picked from an odd bag of options that occationally go through, not just things that were requested.



> I don't see a flaw in anything, since I addressed it specifically two paragraphs above your quotation.


 
Then you're in your own private Idaho. 

(No offense to our Idahoian forumites, I LOVE potatoes.)



> 9 out of 10 Doctors agree: Pulling things out of context just so you can be right makes you look like a douche.


 
And 10 out of 10 Doctors agree that this little bit here makes you look like an asshole and a child. It takes any legitimacy of what you've said and puts it on it's head. Congrats.



> You know? I miss the days where ss.org was progressive and radical


 
Like when we ask for more out of our favorite builders? 



> where every single thread didn't read like Craig's List's Missed Connections Section. I've had my fill of "New (Used) RG7321 super customized with white automotive pin striping, Elmer's glue and macaroni" and "My comprehensive list of the guitars I wish I owned today",


 
Yep, keep insulting our user base by making huge generalizations. 



> so see you in a year or two.


 
How about never?


----------



## davefoxtattoos (Sep 3, 2011)

There's 5 pages of comments here, 75% are complaining about what Carvin didn't include on the new 7 string.

The most I've ever seen on the Carvin forum under PRODUCT SUGGESTIONS for 7-strings is a page or two. If they got 4 pages of input for a 27" scale 7 string with OFR and carved top on THEIR forum, they might actually listen. They have in the past.

All I'm saying, is if you want something, go there and put in your two cents, that's where you'll be heard. Talking trash behind people's back generally just makes you more angry and gets nothing accomplished.


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 4, 2011)

davefoxtattoos said:


> There's 5 pages of comments here, 75% are complaining about what Carvin didn't include on the new 7 string.
> 
> The most I've ever seen on the Carvin forum under PRODUCT SUGGESTIONS for 7-strings is a page or two. If they got 4 pages of input for a 27" scale 7 string with OFR and carved top on THEIR forum, they might actually listen. They have in the past.
> 
> All I'm saying, is if you want something, go there and put in your two cents, that's where you'll be heard. Talking trash behind people's back generally just makes you more angry and gets nothing accomplished.



I started a thread on the old Carvin forum and all the requests fell on deaf ears.  I have submitted info alongside my 7-string orders in the past as well via email hoping they would see the requests were coming from a paying customer and not just some tirekicker on the web but again, never saw any results. There is a constant trend with Carvin where they seem to reintroduce something they did previously (i.e. The ST model in a 7 like they are doing currently) and claim it was based on user demand. They've responded to most emails with "we'll pass this along at the next meeting!" and I've never seen a single one of those items included. I guess a lot of us are tired of what seems like a futile attempt to be heard by them.


----------



## Alberto7 (Sep 4, 2011)

I don't know, I like this new model! It's good to have more options. I still like the DC7x7 series better, however. The only thing I'd add on the DC7x7 are the comfier waist and elbow cutaways that the DC700 has.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 5, 2011)

davefoxtattoos said:


> There's 5 pages of comments here, 75% are complaining about what Carvin didn't include on the new 7 string.
> 
> The most I've ever seen on the Carvin forum under PRODUCT SUGGESTIONS for 7-strings is a page or two. If they got 4 pages of input for a 27" scale 7 string with OFR and carved top on THEIR forum, they might actually listen. They have in the past.
> 
> All I'm saying, is if you want something, go there and put in your two cents, that's where you'll be heard. Talking trash behind people's back generally just makes you more angry and gets nothing accomplished.



I've purchased two guitars (both 7-strings), two basses, three amps, and numerous pieces of pro audio gear from Carvin. Not to mention all the times I've had to order parts for guitars I was working on. 

Every time I placed an order I'd tell them about what I wanted to see from Carvin in the future. I wasn't hostile, and I didn't make demands. I was a paying customer, one who has spent the better part of $10,000 with them, giving them feedback. 

I've posted on the BBS in the past and every time I was met with the same lukewarm response that HighGain510 received. 

I still* really *like Carvin, don't get me wrong, I've just given up on expecting what _I_ want to see from them. Like I said above, it's not my job to do their market research. If all they do is listen to their own forum, and not what customers are asking for elsewhere, and via phone and e-mail, then that's fine. Their are plenty of other companies out their offering features I like, so I'm not too heartbroken.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Sep 5, 2011)

Ok.. Im pretty much one of the biggest Carvin fanboys on this forum (after Rob_L obviously) - even though I sold off my DC727 and actually only really plan on keeping my Carvin Basses.. but this is how I feel.

Carvin guitars are great, their quality is amazing for the price (not to mention their looks).. but some of their spec options are not for us. But I understand. They make their specs to cater to their BIGGEST target demographic, which happens to be different from us (in this forums case, the 27" scale or 8-string chugga-chugga-brutalz meshuggah people) - Carvin wants to sell guitars to the vintage rock crowd and fusion-jazz crowd who want something more than a standard Fender or Gibson.. 

I mean look at their endorsed list.. Joe Walsh and Eagles bassist, Neil Zaza, Bon Jovi's bassist, Steve Fister, all these classic rock / 80s hair bands. Then you look at their fusion crowd with Holdsworth, Bunny Brunel, Brian Bromberg, Frank Gambale.. 

So what does this mean? Outside of Shane Gibson, there isnt much target for 8 string shredding/riffing metal stuff. Therefor, when it comes to their options for 7 strings, they are taking a HUGE risk by adding extra long scale lengths or 8 strings. Outside of afew people on these forums (which most are the "Oh id buy one for sure!" but when the time comes, dont commit) theres practically no market for Carvin in the ERG/8 string field which hasnt been covered by the low priced Schecter or Ibanez extended range 7s/8s. Carvin's aren't going to cover that $400 range, they are at minimum $1200 and people dont buy ERGs in that range (its usually the cheap $600 Agiles or a complete custom at $2500+, im betting the "middle-ground" market for ERGs is very unappealing to a company)

Like I said, I don't play Carvin guitars much anymore solely due to not having the options I need, and it sucks but I understand it would not be worth it for them to make a guitar that will barely sell 100 of them, just to satisfy the 15 people on THIS forum who says they would buy it. I still love Carvin and recommend them to anyone who is happy with their specs, but for anyone wanting something ER, Carvin just isnt the company for you. All the petitions in the world won't make their profit margins magically work.

Be happy that they even have a 7 string at all, even if the options are not too diverse, to get a guitar with that quality for that price, its outstanding. If you want a carvin THAT badly, start understanding how 25.5" DOES work for 7 strings just fine, and buy one. It wasnt a problem for Bulb in his earlier Periphery days, and you can't get much more "djenty" than Periphery.

Crying about it will not magically make them change, especially when its less than 1% of their customer base.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 5, 2011)

NickCormier said:


> Ok.. Im pretty much one of the biggest Carvin fanboys on this forum (after Rob_L obviously) - even though I sold off my DC727 and actually only really plan on keeping my Carvin Basses.. but this is how I feel.
> 
> Carvin guitars are great, their quality is amazing for the price (not to mention their looks).. but some of their spec options are not for us. But I understand. They make their specs to cater to their BIGGEST target demographic, which happens to be different from us (in this forums case, the 27" scale or 8-string chugga-chugga-brutalz meshuggah people) - Carvin wants to sell guitars to the vintage rock crowd and fusion-jazz crowd who want something more than a standard Fender or Gibson..
> 
> ...



I still don't see how this pertains to giving the DC7 series industry standard pickup routes. Last time I checked their base demographic used SD and DiMarzio pickups.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Sep 5, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I still don't see how this pertains to giving the DC7 series industry standard pickup routes. Last time I checked their base demographic used SD and DiMarzio pickups.



Er I guess I understand.. but if thats the ONLY complaint people have and the difference between them ordering one or not; its not that hard to fix. Afew runs of the sandpaper and it fits them. Is it stupid? sure, but lots of companies do much worse.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 5, 2011)

NickCormier said:


> Er I guess I understand.. but if thats the ONLY complaint people have and the difference between them ordering one or not; its not that hard to fix. Afew runs of the sandpaper and it fits them. Is it stupid? sure, but lots of companies do much worse.



I wouldn't say that's the only thing, though it is one of my personal gripes, and I'm someone who knows their way around sanding and routing.....and cutting pickup tabs. 

I try to keep as much "stupid" out of my $2000+ purchases as possible.


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 5, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've purchased two guitars (both 7-strings), two basses, three amps, and numerous pieces of pro audio gear from Carvin. Not to mention all the times I've had to order parts for guitars I was working on.
> 
> Every time I placed an order I'd tell them about what I wanted to see from Carvin in the future. I wasn't hostile, and I didn't make demands. I was a paying customer, one who has spent the better part of $10,000 with them, giving them feedback.
> 
> ...




Yeah I haven't dropped 10K with Carvin but I've bought a half dozen customs from them since I've started playing and would think that would at least put me into the "maybe we should listen to what he has to say...?" column but after all this time I've pretty much given up. If Carvin does someday make some of those changes (honestly if they did standard routes on all their guitars, I'd be happy! ) I'd gladly buy another new Carvin but until then, I'm pretty meh about them as far as new instruments go these days because as you said there are a bunch of other folks offering what I need/want so my money is going to go to them instead. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> I wouldn't say that's the only thing, though it is one of my personal gripes, and I'm someone who knows their way around sanding and routing.....and cutting pickup tabs.
> 
> I try to keep as much "stupid" out of my $2000+ purchases as possible.



Exactly!  It's not that I can't do it (I did on one of my early DC727s), it's just that it's a major pain in the ass when I could absolutely bypass the situation completely if they used what 99% of the industry considers the universal standard for "passive" routes.


----------



## littledoc (Sep 6, 2011)

Not really getting the hate here. Many of these options have been long sought after by people ordering from Carvin. Sevens are a still a niche market, and Carvin's not about to dive headfirst given the highly custom nature of their operation. I concur with others: if anything, this slight diversification of the 7-string lineup may be a bridge toward more models and options down the line. In the meantime, if you must have a 27" scale, just shop elsewhere. Somehow I doubt Carvin is losing any sleep. Sevenstring.org is not their business-defining demographic, shocking though it apparently is to some. 

Designing new pickup routes may not be a big deal. Designing new _pickups_ is a big deal. Carvin's not going to bother making the investment unless they feel that the lack of standard routes is hurting their bottom line, and obviously they don't... yet.


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 6, 2011)

littledoc said:


> Designing new pickup routes may not be a big deal. Designing new _pickups_ is a big deal. Carvin's not going to bother making the investment unless they feel that the lack of standard routes is hurting their bottom line, and obviously they don't... yet.



That's part of the problem, Carvin seems hung up on HAVING to use their own in-house pickups. Not sure if it's financially less expensive or something but there are plenty of aftermarket 7-string options so as far as "investments" go, they'd only have to seek out an OEM deal with DiMarzio or Duncan which 90%+ of the rest of guitar manufacturers do currently, so I highly doubt it's impossible and overly expensive.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Sep 6, 2011)

HighGain510 said:


> That's part of the problem, Carvin seems hung up on HAVING to use their own in-house pickups. Not sure if it's financially less expensive or something but there are plenty of aftermarket 7-string options so as far as "investments" go, they'd only have to seek out an OEM deal with DiMarzio or Duncan which 90%+ of the rest of guitar manufacturers do currently, so I highly doubt it's impossible and overly expensive.





Given how often you see the comment "I didn't like the stock Carvin pups" then you would imagine if the R&D guys DO listen to public comment (and I do mean in general, rather than SS.org as a stable demographic) then they would at least raise the issue of standardization - both in terms of their own pickup sizes and with a view to aftermarket replacements.

HOW could it hurt to standardize when the upside to the strategy could potentially be shifting more units? The small cost of re-programming their CNC machines to a slightly different pattern? 

Seems to be a case of sheer stubbornness/bloody-mindedness from the same ass-hats that bought the dealers into the equation and yeah, I will keep bangin' the drum on that particular master-stroke


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Sep 6, 2011)

The issue with Carvin using or not using their own pickups is a moot point, since changing the routes to fit standard pickups means widening the routs by about 1mm on both sides (neck and bridge). The stock pickups would still fit, no problem. It would literally take a few minutes in AutoCAD to redesign.

Will it keep me from buying one in the future? Not by a longshot. The stocks aren't *that* bad (in contrast, Ibanez stocks are typically much worse), and sanding 1mm from each side of the pickup route is a small price to pay for a sub-$1600 semi custom.

The sad thing is, on the 700, they finally gave us standard routes....standard EMG routes. We just can't win.


----------



## HighGain510 (Sep 6, 2011)

shanejohnson02 said:


> The issue with Carvin using or not using their own pickups is a moot point, since changing the routes to fit standard pickups means widening the routs by about 1mm on both sides (neck and bridge). The stock pickups would still fit, no problem. It would literally take a few minutes in AutoCAD to redesign.
> 
> Will it keep me from buying one in the future? Not by a longshot. The stocks aren't *that* bad (in contrast, Ibanez stocks are typically much worse), and sanding 1mm from each side of the pickup route is a small price to pay for a sub-$1600 semi custom.
> 
> The sad thing is, on the 700, they finally gave us standard routes....standard EMG routes. We just can't win.




Agreed, I wouldn't care if they continued to supply it with their house-brand stock pickups, but if they fixed the routes so they were standard-sized (say Duncan, since those routes could fit both Duncan-shaped [i.e. normal BKP tabs] pickups and triangular-tabbed pickups like DiMarzio) that would absolutely help remedy the issue. While they're at it, why not also change the baseplate they use so it's not that awkward 2x1 mounting scheme which is currently forcing the odd routes? Not a bad suggestion as far as I can see, they could still issue them with their pickups but it would make it much easier for folks like myself who know 100% that they will be changing the pickups out upon arrival.


----------



## davefoxtattoos (Sep 6, 2011)

My only problem with the DC700 is the Active Pickups. I'm a die-hard passive guy, and I like how the Carvin 7-string pickups sound in my DC727. But I'm willing to try their actives and see how it goes. If they offered a passive option, I'd definitely take that instead.

Does anybody know if a passive Dimarzio will fit in an active 7 route? They say EMG 7's will fit in the DC700.


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 6, 2011)

If an EMG 7 fits, 2 passives could fit in 1 route


----------



## SnowfaLL (Sep 6, 2011)

davefoxtattoos said:


> My only problem with the DC700 is the Active Pickups. I'm a die-hard passive guy, and I like how the Carvin 7-string pickups sound in my DC727. But I'm willing to try their actives and see how it goes. If they offered a passive option, I'd definitely take that instead.
> 
> Does anybody know if a passive Dimarzio will fit in an active 7 route? They say EMG 7's will fit in the DC700.



Im pretty positive you can order a DC727 with the new headstock now.. other than that and the EMGs, Isnt that the only change? Unless that bodyshape style if new (although I thought non-rounded edges was already an option) oh and maybe the 20" radius fretboard..


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 6, 2011)

davefoxtattoos said:


> Does anybody know if a passive Dimarzio will fit in an active 7 route? They say EMG 7's will fit in the DC700.


 
Yes and no. The pickup itself will fit, with tons of room to spare. Though the pickup tabs are going to be wider than the EMG route, so you'll either have to permanently alter the pickups, possibly making them impossible to install in another guitar in the future, or route the sides of the pickup routes a little to fit the tabs without cutting/shaping them.


----------



## davefoxtattoos (Sep 6, 2011)

NickCormier said:


> Im pretty positive you can order a DC727 with the new headstock now.. other than that and the EMGs, Isnt that the only change? Unless that bodyshape style if new (although I thought non-rounded edges was already an option) oh and maybe the 20" radius fretboard..



The arm bevel on the DC700 looks WAY more comfortable than the DC727 (which I think is uncomfortable as hell). I was on the verge of ordering a rounded edge dc727 when they released the 700. I think the rounded edges look goofy, though, plus the big arm bevel is probably more comfy.

As far as the actives go, I guess I'll decide whether I can live with them before ordering


----------



## HaloHat (Sep 6, 2011)

Hey, after over 10 years Carvin did SOMETHING to a 7 string. 
Perhaps 7 string DC7X7's actually account for over 1% of sales [I would bet yes]

Carvin is a family run business. In going through every page [public] of their various web pages, it seems the lone CN programmer is one of the Kiesel brothers per their website. I believe it said he has other duties at Carvin as well. Is he skilled enough to program extended scale necks, passive routes etc.? Of course he is. 

I also bet the reason anything at all happened with a seven string guitar at Carvin is because they do sell better than many other Carvin models. May the wake up call be way less than the 10 years we waited for Carvin to do anything at all with their 7 strings...

[not a Carvin hater, owned a sweet DC127 that I got rid of because the crap Wilkinson trem, everything else about the guitar was excellent.] 

Did post on the Carvin forum, my new Strictly 7 27.5" scale guitar as proof that I will put my cash where my posts are.


----------

