# Baked, Cooked, Roasted, Caramelized Maple



## Mr Wright (Apr 18, 2013)

A few different companies have started marketing this stuff for guitar necks. Everyone uses a different name for the process, but from what I understand it is essentially cooking instead of kiln drying I think. It supposedly improves resistance to temperature and humidity change and has other benefits as well.


Has anyone actually used it? Does it make any difference?

Assuming the piece will fit, can I do this in my oven without burning down my house?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 18, 2013)

Unless somebody comes along with some indisputable evidence, I think we've just arrived at a way to get wood from the tree to the customer quicker, while inflating the price. Call me a skeptic, but I smell a rat, not baked maple.


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## celticelk (Apr 18, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Unless somebody comes along with some indisputable evidence, I think we've just arrived at a way to get wood from the tree to the customer quicker, while inflating the price. Call me a skeptic, but I smell a rat, not baked maple.



It's also much darker than standard maple fretboards, which might make it an attractive choice for those who want a domestic alternative to rosewood, ebony, and similar exotics.


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Apr 18, 2013)

Here's what I know: "roasting" maple involves baking it in a vacuum, like an autoclave. No, your oven won't work, unless you can suck all the oxygen out first...

Supposedly it makes it almost impervious to moisture, very hard, and damn sexy. 


I've never used it, so every bit of that (save the sexiness part) could be horseshit.


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## Mr Wright (Apr 18, 2013)

Well crap. 

There goes my idea of getting fresh cut WV maple from a sawmill and baking it at the house.


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Apr 18, 2013)

^ I know that feel.


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## canuck brian (Apr 18, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Unless somebody comes along with some indisputable evidence, I think we've just arrived at a way to get wood from the tree to the customer quicker, while inflating the price. Call me a skeptic, but I smell a rat, not baked maple.



It costs 1 dollar more per board foot and is perfect for flooring. I've talked to the guys at the supplier i deal with and there have been zero reports of any of their flooring binding, twisting or lifting whatsoever and they've sold hundreds of thousands of board feet of the stuff. Since flooring usually goes thru a little more abuse than your guitar necks, I'm pretty confident that it's stable stuff with this information.

I've had quartersawn maple that I stupidly left out (not under pressure) generate a slight cupping while the roasted figured maple i also left out remained dead straight.

I've used it on almost every guitar that I've built since building for a customer base and I find it to be the most stable neck wood to date. It also looks amazing.


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Apr 18, 2013)

Brian has spoken. The end. Everyone go home now.


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## Mr_Bene (Apr 18, 2013)

It will be roasted/baked/whatever after kiln drying. As already mentioned before the process takes place in some kind of autoclave under a controlled atmosphere.
Depending on the specific process the stability will increase by about 50% more or less. However, the mechanical properties will get worse in general (Bending strength, E-modulus, ...). Not too much though from what I read in several scientific articles.

Actually I don't know why it is not more common in guitar building. The processes are not really new and the price isn't outrageous as well.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 18, 2013)

Well there it is  Brian I had no idea you were using it.. I guess being in Canada you've probably got it readily accessible.

Personally I still love the hell out of reeeeeally white maple in a laminated neck.


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## pondman (Apr 19, 2013)

I got some "smoked" Tulip Wood recently and wondered if its the same kind of thing ?
Its really nice looking but smells of Kippers


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## canuck brian (Apr 19, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Well there it is  Brian I had no idea you were using it.. I guess being in Canada you've probably got it readily accessible.
> 
> Personally I still love the hell out of reeeeeally white maple in a laminated neck.



Pretty much everything! I think only 3 out of 12 guitars built last year didn't have it. 

I'm not sure if it's a Canadian thing or not, but I've heard guys in the states having issues procuring it. at www.exotic-woods.com in Burlington Ontario, it comes in perfectly surfaced 1 inch thick, 3 inch wide and 10 feet long boards. There's regular roasted, figured and birdseye roasted maple. Pretty cool stuff.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 19, 2013)

For those who speak french:
http://www.cherubin-luthier.fr/Bazar/docbois.pdf

Roasting maple is used to remove even more humidity from the inside of fibers, which is the hardest humidity to remove, and which causes most damages on guitars (and every other applications). Roasting is like kiln dry, but even stronger (thus faster and "drier"). That's why you have to use a special designed oven: you need to be able to remove humidity from the atmosphere of your oven, other way it's pretty useless...

So, in the end, like Brian said, it's much more stable as the humidity level is fairly low, compared to the level of humidity contained in the wood used for luthiery (where we accept those as being dried enough).

About the cost, I can't help on that, but there's in one hand the advantage of going pretty fast (always compare it to standard drying times of several years), so it costs less. But in another hand, it needs special machinery, costs energy, maintenance, etc. So I don't know where the balance is, but it seems it still cost a bit more than standard drying.

PS: this is all personnal knowledge, so I'm not 100% sure of that.


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## OfArtAndArsenal (Apr 19, 2013)

Brian, where on that site is the maple you are talking about?
I found the roasted maple, but it doesn't give much information about sizing...


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## canuck brian (Apr 19, 2013)

OfArtAndArsenal said:


> Brian, where on that site is the maple you are talking about?
> I found the roasted maple, but it doesn't give much information about sizing...



Give em a call - I always go there in person.


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 20, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Unless somebody comes along with some indisputable evidence, I think we've just arrived at a way to get wood from the tree to the customer quicker, while inflating the price. Call me a skeptic, but I smell a rat, not baked maple.


Out of curiosity, how much experience do you have in woodwork?

I've used baked pine before and it's awesome - still super light and easy to work but extremely stable. I figure like Brian said, maple will react the same to baking. The only (non tropical) wood I've used that was more stable is accoya, which is pine/softwood treated with some acidic chemical process.


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## bluediamond (Apr 20, 2013)

Does it only works for maple? How about baked mahogany, alder, etc.
I imagine it would create an extremely resonant guitar.


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## axxessdenied (Apr 21, 2013)

canuck brian said:


> Pretty much everything! I think only 3 out of 12 guitars built last year didn't have it.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a Canadian thing or not, but I've heard guys in the states having issues procuring it. at www.exotic-woods.com in Burlington Ontario, it comes in perfectly surfaced 1 inch thick, 3 inch wide and 10 feet long boards. There's regular roasted, figured and birdseye roasted maple. Pretty cool stuff.



Thanks for posting that link. I think I might have to take a drive out to burlington one of these days


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## onetake-jam (Apr 21, 2013)

I think it's good with a cup of coffee. Nice blend, for sure.

For the wood qualities, I have a HUGE doubt.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 21, 2013)

If you have to types of wood that shrink and expand at different rates, like maple and mahogany, and both are roasted or whatever, would that stop them from said shrinking and expanding?


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## Lorcan Ward (Apr 21, 2013)

The thread title made me hungry.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 22, 2013)

bluediamond said:


> Does it only works for maple? How about baked mahogany, alder, etc.
> I imagine it would create an extremely resonant guitar.


Yep, because a dry wood is more resonant than a wet one. For proof: have you ever tried to play guitar in a pool?





> If you have to types of wood that shrink and expand at different rates, like maple and mahogany, and both are roasted or whatever, would that stop them from said shrinking and expanding?


In fact, that's the point. Roasting maple is made to dry a lot the piece of wood. So, with no humidity, there's more stability, i.e. less shrinking and all. That's all the point of the thread.


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## canuck brian (Apr 22, 2013)

onetake-jam said:


> I think it's good with a cup of coffee. Nice blend, for sure.
> 
> For the wood qualities, I have a HUGE doubt.



That's your call.  I'm going to say with the 9 guitars i've used it in so far that's it's incredibly stable and very beautiful.


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## Mr_Bene (Apr 22, 2013)

onetake-jam said:


> I think it's good with a cup of coffee. Nice blend, for sure.
> 
> For the wood qualities, I have a HUGE doubt.



I don't know where the sceptism is coming from but the effects of heat treating wood is scientifically proven. I mean, it is not some voodoo stuff, not even remotely 
With some research, plenty of scientific articles on the topic can be found on the web. 

For example: http://www.ncsu.edu/bioresources/Bi...Esteves_P_Wood_Mod_Heat_Treatment_Rev_367.pdf


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Apr 22, 2013)

> Baked, Cooked, Roasted, Caramelized Maple



Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew?


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