# Drop E bass amp suggestions



## areyna21 (Feb 4, 2016)

So in my band we have started to write in drop e on 8 strings. We use a Spector 35" scale 6 string bass with a .200 as the low e. These string are from Kalium and are good quality strings. The bass rig right now is a mark bass 410 and a little mark ii bass head. When we hit the low e open or even the first few frets it just bottoms out. From what I've read you need at least 1000 watts of headroom to help with being able to reproduce a note that low. Im looking at different possible ways of doing that. One is power amp, crossover, Aguilar tone hammer preamp pedal, 4x10 and 1x18. The second is gallien Kruger 2001rb and Mesa powerhouse 4x10 1x15 combo cab. Any other suggestions are welcome.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 4, 2016)

You're only really mostly going to get overtones anyway, audibly, might as well make it easier and play at the same octave. It tends to sound better both live and recorded 9/10 times.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 4, 2016)

So your saying tune the bass an octave up instead?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 4, 2016)

areyna21 said:


> So your saying tune the bass an octave up instead?



Relative to where it is now, yes. So the same low E as your guitars. 

Remember, the primary tonal difference between guitar and bass is the ratio of fundamental tone and overtones, with the bass having more fundamental and guitar the opposite. So even when played at the same octave the bass will still sound more "bass like" and support the guitars.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 4, 2016)

Okay this has given me a new avenue to explore. Thanks for the input I'll have to explore this a lot further. So eadgbe is the tuning that we are talking about? What kind of strings would even support that kind of tension?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 4, 2016)

areyna21 said:


> Okay this has given me a new avenue to explore. Thanks for the input I'll have to explore this a lot further. So eadgbe is the tuning that we are talking about? What kind of strings would even support that kind of tension?



Regular bass strings. Are you sure you get what I'm saying? 

So you tune your 8-string guitar down to EBEADGBE, correct? 

That lowest E is E1 or one octave lower than the second lowest E[2] that you find on a traditional 6-string guitar. 

A standard 4-string bass' low E is also E1. That's the E I'm talking about when it comes to tuning your bass, not the E0 you're using a giant string for.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 4, 2016)

Yeah I got it just wrapping my head around it. The tension is going to be higher when using that tuning so I'll need way thinner gauge strings. Because I'm trying to accomplish this on a six string. Honestly would probably be easer just to use a 4 string bass in its standard tuning.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 4, 2016)

areyna21 said:


> Yeah I got it just wrapping my head around it. The tension is going to be higher when using that tuning so I'll need way thinner gauge strings. Because I'm trying to accomplish this on a six string. Honestly would probably be easer just to use a 4 string bass in its standard tuning.



The tension is only going to be slightly higher on the first two strings compared to standard 6 string bass tuning. It's really not nearly as complicated as I think you think it is. Really.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 4, 2016)

Alright man thanks for helping me out I'll give it a try.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 4, 2016)

IMO its still worth having the option for that super low E since it can sound ridiculously low live and on record. Maybe consider tuning your bass E(0)E(1)ADGC

I agree that you may need more power, but more importantly more speakers. Try a sealed 8x10. You wont get as much sub bass but you'll get better clarity and more air moving. A solid state head like the GK you mentioned is probably also good.


----------



## chaneisa (Feb 4, 2016)

areyna21 said:


> Alright man thanks for helping me out I'll give it a try.



Jus tune regularly. Tune BEADGC, and when the guitars do stuff on their B string, go down to your B string, but match their low E with your E in the same octave.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 4, 2016)

chaneisa said:


> Jus tune regularly. Tune BEADGC, and when the guitars do stuff on their B string, go down to your B string, but match their low E with your E in the same octave.



Depends on the situation but often that change means the feeling of bass totally drops out. Guitar players are often riffing a little higher and then they want the big powerful part to come in and they drop way down to that 8th string. If the bass player goes from playing an octave below the guitars to playing in the same octave as them it can feel and sound like the bass disappeared or stopped playing. Of course this depends on the parts, feel, mix, etc... but its something to consider.


----------



## Alex Kenivel (Feb 4, 2016)

I think kalium made/is working on a sub bass amp/cab. I read about it last year but nothing since. 

Also, I'm a fan of bass at same octave (E1)


----------



## Winspear (Feb 4, 2016)

fEARful / fEARless cabs buddy. Thank me later Get yourself 2000 watts into that and you're laughing.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 4, 2016)

EtherealEntity said:


> fEARful / fEARless cabs buddy. Thank me later Get yourself 2000 watts into that and you're laughing.



$1000 for a 1x10 later...


----------



## Winspear (Feb 4, 2016)

Don't know about that, I paid $1000 for each of my 112s (fearful 12/6/1) equivalent to be built for me. As far as I remember you can DIY for about 60% of builders prices. They aren't cheap, no, but worth their reputation!


----------



## Smoked Porter (Feb 4, 2016)

These work pretty well for that kind of thing. They even come in different colors!








Ok ok I'm leaving please don't hurt me.


----------



## Veldar (Feb 5, 2016)

Hmm have access to a highpass filter? maybe cut all the low lows with the highppass, boost low mids & use a comp should all help out.


----------



## Cobra (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm sick and tired of hearing "just tune it like a normal 4 string, E1" - if the guy wants tips for and amp for E0 tuning, then give him tips on amps for E0 tuning and shut up about the E1 ok? I'm getting into E0 myself, and every thread I read about E0 turns into being about E1. stop it. I get it, "but it's going to be hard to get the E0 to sound good, E1 is much easier to deal with" - yeah, I get it,but stop it. if it's hard to get E0 to sound good then it's about *how* to make it sound good, not giving up.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 5, 2016)

Cobra said:


> I'm sick and tired of hearing "just tune it like a normal 4 string, E1" - if the guy wants tips for and amp for E0 tuning, then give him tips on amps for E0 tuning and shut up about the E1 ok? I'm getting into E0 myself, and every thread I read about E0 turns into being about E1. stop it. I get it, "but it's going to be hard to get the E0 to sound good, E1 is much easier to deal with" - yeah, I get it,but stop it. if it's hard to get E0 to sound good then it's about *how* to make it sound good, not giving up.



Well, telling someone what tends to sound better in a lot of people's opinion is a tip.  

I've seen so many bands try to do E0 live and it just sounds terrible. 

I don't see you giving any advice one way or the other. Be the change bro.


----------



## Action (Feb 5, 2016)

Is the bass's active circuitry putting out too hot of a signal for the amp to handle? You can sort of check it, relative to other instruments, using an interface. Depending on the preamp circuit, there may be a small potentiometer inside the control cavity you can adjust with a screwdriver to lower the output gain.

Are your pickups overloading the input on the low string? If the pickups are physically quite close to the strings, you could try backing them off a bit.

Distortion and overdrive naturally cut low end. You could try a bit of that in front of the amp. 

If it persists after this, since the problem notes are below 30hz, we could try to find an equalizer with a notch or high-pass configurable at/near 20hz, and cut it some.

Failing that, you should really take the bass to a music shop, plug it into a few amps, and see which ones have trouble. If you've got no equalizer, there's another thing you can test while you're at the shop.

I have an E0 bass, and a 1000w rig, ashamed to say I haven't used them together yet at volume. At any live setting of any formidable size, your rig is only going to serve as your stage monitor anyway... something to think about... part of getting a good sound might involve using that equalizer or overdrive in front, whether or not you replace your rig with another that can handle it 'straight up', so that you can send the sound guy a signal with all the sub-mud rolled substantially lower than the juice of the signal. This rig might be a blessing in disguise because sticking with it forces you to start with a more appropriate signal in front


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 5, 2016)

I thought I had my options narrowed down lol. Now I have even more things to go through and figure out what works for me. Thank you guys for helping me out.


----------



## olejason (Feb 6, 2016)

Your cab is just going to be a glorified stage monitor (if that) unless you're playing basement shows and whatnot. 

What kind of tone are you using with that tuning? Personally I've never heard a band do E0 live and sound like anything other than mud. It is tough.


----------



## Winspear (Feb 7, 2016)

I would focus on producing clearly as low as possible, rather than cutting the extreme lows for clarity.
As long as you've got a tight enough string (200 is good) and a rig with enough headroom, the main problem becomes the volume drop, due to the fundamental being so low. Any volume you can get out of the fundamental will help, but the main goal needs to be reproduction of the first harmonic (40hz) with no volume loss. So you are looking at rigs that aim for full reproduction of standard bass, or preferably 5 string. The greenboy cabs I suggested is just one of several popular options. Beyond that you can choose to boost a tight fundamental band if you wish, but it can be tricky to find an EQ that boosts that area specifically without boosting the 2nd string too much.


----------



## chaneisa (Feb 7, 2016)

You'll need a compressor for note to note consistency.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 7, 2016)

Yeah I was thinking about trying a eq pedal, compressor, or limiter. I'm basically cutting the lows and low mids while having the treble and high mids up. Everytime we hit that string it's still muddy though. Probably going to take my bass to a shop and try it out through some different rigs. I like the idea of tuning up to E1 though because I like the sound of it. The E0 if it can come out clean will sound massive though.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 8, 2016)

You can also consider tuning to E1 and using an EHX Pitch Fork to drop it an octave. Then you have the clarity, playability, and control (its really hard to quickly mute a super heavy string) of the standard bass with the pitch of the E0 bass. You just need to compress and EQ that octave down signal to make it work. 

I do something similar with a baritone guitar that has a low G1 as the bottom string. An octave pedal drops that to G0 and feeds it to a bass amp. Sounds huge with my dual amp rig.


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 8, 2016)

That's is exactly what I was just thinking of doing. I tuned a cheap bass I had up to E1 and I really like the sound. I can turn the mark bass amp up pretty high without clipping. Going to check out some pedals soon and see what works for me.


----------



## BenSolace (Feb 19, 2016)

areyna21 said:


> I like the idea of tuning up to E1 though because I like the sound of it.


My band has just started using 8 strings tuned DGDGCFAd (low D1) with a 5 string bass tuned to GDGCF - I wouldn't like to think how much hard work it would be to get a D0 to work - G1 is hard enough and our bassist plays a Dingwall!

To clarify, you don't have to tune up to match the low string of the 8, in our case he plays his second string when we play the lowest, and he plays his low G when we play our second string. Sounds great and very clear on the low D1 - the bass and guitar in unison works as the bass provides most of the fundamental and the guitar the overtones and distortion.

Other than that, I have no advice for tuning to low E0, other than doing the above and kicking in an octave/pitch shifter pedal when the low E0 just can't be replaced!


----------



## areyna21 (Feb 21, 2016)

Yeah we ended up buying a Warwick 5 string corvette and are in the process of setting it up. Just going to basically tune the way messhugah does and call it a day. Carrying around a huge bass rig just wasn't an option afterall.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 25, 2016)

BenHughesDS said:


> My band has just started using 8 strings tuned DGDGCFAd (low D1) with a 5 string bass tuned to GDGCF - I wouldn't like to think how much hard work it would be to get a D0 to work - G1 is hard enough and our bassist plays a Dingwall!
> 
> To clarify, you don't have to tune up to match the low string of the 8, in our case he plays his second string when we play the lowest, and he plays his low G when we play our second string. Sounds great and very clear on the low D1 - the bass and guitar in unison works as the bass provides most of the fundamental and the guitar the overtones and distortion.
> 
> Other than that, I have no advice for tuning to low E0, other than doing the above and kicking in an octave/pitch shifter pedal when the low E0 just can't be replaced!



Just FYI the G you are tuning to is G0. G1 is the 3rd fret on the 4th string of a standard tuned bass.


----------



## ixlramp (Feb 25, 2016)

Tuning the bass EBEAD(G) allows you to play root-octave dyads on the E0 and E1 strings, that might sound better, for example like how church organs often use the very low notes to double-up standard bass notes. You could tune EBEBE to have both options, unision and octave-down, and allow root-octave dyads on the B strings. The dyads would add tonal clarity and volume and allow the lowest strings to add subtle rumble.
I do find that over-use of ultra low strings gets very boring, for example always being an octave below a low riffing guitar.
It may still be possible to tastefully use the E0 without a specialist amp.
Kalium sound has released their sealed 1x15 sub now Sound &#8211; Kalium Strings


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 25, 2016)

How does a $1200 1x15 not fall under the category "specialist amp?"


----------



## MechyKola (Mar 23, 2016)

If the notes at ~ 15-25hz sound quiet boost that on an eq, after some hard compression. The get an overdrive/distortion and max (high gain at least) drive and use blend to taste/to get the best clarity. Add 100-200hz or 200-400hz for punch/weight and 2-4khz or 4-8khz for attack.

the different frequencies are for the different tone or texture they produce. Check out nolly's rig rundown, there he displays how he gets the F# to ring nice and clear. Also as said before, the cab is the stage monitor and maybe for the first couple rows - beyond that is the PA's responsibility, so get to know basic PA stuff and work with the PA to get a good sound for the actual crowd. (they also generally have more power than your amp)


----------



## bostjan (Mar 23, 2016)

I love this kind of discussion. 

You, my friend, are stepping into the frontier.

Yes, many bands have tried to tune bass down to F#0, E0, or beyond, and yes, many have failed to obtain a clear sound, but, no, not all of them have failed. There is hope.

I love tuning my bass down. I got a Dingwall just to tune down. B0 was never low enough for me. Ten years ago, I thought G0 was as low as I could go (live) without turning tone getting compromised too much. The Dingwall, whilst sounding better on its own, didn't do too great with F#0 without serious amp tweaking. I think I got to the point where F#0 sounded good, and where my F0 is livable, without using any fancy boutique fEARful equipment (although that is probably your best option, TBH). You have to abandon the idea that cranking the lows for a low tuning will help. Odds are, your amps "low" knob will not even touch the fundamental frequency of an E0 (~20.6 Hz). Graphic EQ can help. Start with everything flat and then try notching each frequency out whilst playing. Note which frequency bands cut out any mud. Don't be afraid to cut those frequencies. You'll also need a lot of power to push enough air. I recommend an 18" cab of some sort if you can't afford the fEARful. Peavey D118s can be obtained used for not a bad price. Yes, it's a PA speaker, but yes, it will still function. I've got a Pyle PASW18 for that purpose. The single 18" thumps harder than a single 15". But, my goal is F0, if yours is E0, you might need a little more.

So, my recommendation, FWIW:

1. A powerful power amp. Lots of impulse watts. I would not even consider anything less than 2kW. (2000 W) It might be a simple one, for a PA, though.
2. A graphic EQ. Make sure it has some frequency bands that cover the low end.
3. A single 18" cab. Or, do better and get the fEARful cab.

If you still want some regular bass tone, you can add a crossover and a 2x10" or 4x10" to get some snap into the highs.


----------



## iron blast (Apr 9, 2016)

Try getting a phil jones 12b neo cab they are rated to 25Hz and sound epic they are abit pricey at $1300 USD but they sound really clear for low tunings


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Apr 10, 2016)

You could just do 6 string standard.


----------



## GenghisCoyne (Apr 11, 2016)

ITT: people suggesting a stranger spend thousands of dollars they dont have


----------

