# Wonder Woman movie



## wankerness

OK, this actually looks really good, unlike the rather haphazard and often ugly Justice League footage which visually looks identical to BvS.



I'm trying to keep expectations low after MoS had one of the best trailers I've ever seen, but c'mon. Actual bright colors! The aesthetic resembles Captain America 1 as much as the Snyderverse! And...







HYPED!!!!!

This should hopefully undo all the damage done by the previous two films. And as bad as it is (it's not really a trailer, so it has an excuse), the Justice League footage has actual jokes in it, so that's a big step up from BvS already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gglkYMGRYlE


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## beneharris

This was a good trailer. I especially liked how they featured her plane in all of the shots.


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## Quiet Coil

beneharris said:


> This was a good trailer. I especially liked how they featured her plane in all of the shots.



Waka waka waka!

My response has more to do with being jaded with superheroes in general, but it looks like a feminized Captain America directed by the Wachowskis. That is to say, not half bad, just not doing anything for me.

Same with the "Whedonized" Justice League. I get it, they overshot the mark with BvS, but this just feels like it's all being diluted a bit much.

Chances are if I watch them I'll enjoy them, and nothing but love for those who are stoked. If you don't like my opinion feel free to dismiss me as "one of those guys who thinks Nolan's trilogy was the pinnacle".


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## wankerness

Justice League has splintered those weird comic label fanboys into two factions - "NOW DC SUCKS AS BAD AS MARVEL" and "DC'S JOKES ARE FUNNIER THAN MARVEL'S. THEY'RE MORE NATURAL." I will never understand people who try to turn comic book movies into sports teams.


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## Quiet Coil

wankerness said:


> Justice League has splintered those weird comic label fanboys into two factions - "NOW DC SUCKS AS BAD AS MARVEL" and "DC'S JOKES ARE FUNNIER THAN MARVEL'S. THEY'RE MORE NATURAL." I will never understand people who try to turn comic book movies into sports teams.



True that. I think I actually preferred DC overall until the Favreau/Downey Iron Man came along (and of course it's been a mixed bag since), we'll see what DC & Warner can pull off.

EDIT: And really, it's about the studios. DC has a darker tone than Marvel in general, always has as far as I'm concerned. I don't think the studio was totally wrong with their approach with Man of Steel and BvS, they just didn't stand a chance in the environment Marvel/Disney has set up.


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## Demiurge

wankerness said:


> I will never understand people who try to turn comic book movies into sports teams.



It's unproductive, too. Fanboys are going to fanboy but there's been a little too much of a "rooting against" attitude and schadenfreude going around. Obviously, comic book movies are a bull market, but I think eventually it will be noticeable that for every tent-pole movie that bombs the chances of a smaller or riskier project being made will be diminished. Heck, I'm sure by now many a pitch has been already been felled by a "gee, if having Batman and Superman in a movie together couldn't make money..."


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## wankerness

I dunno, it might have been the opposite, with "Hey, Deadpool made more money than BvS and cost 1/5 as much, maybe we should do more of those!"


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## dr_game0ver

Am i the only one who remember the animated movie released a couple of years ago?


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## Rawkmann

dr_game0ver said:


> Am i the only one who remember the animated movie released a couple of years ago?



Nope, I own it and it's better than any live action version will probably ever be. Those DC cartoons are always so good I always wonder why they don't get the folks behind those to adapt their live action stuff. I'll trade Snyder and Nolan for Bruce Timm and Paul Dini any day!


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## A-Branger

Rawkmann said:


> Those DC cartoons are always so good I always wonder why they don't get the folks behind those to adapt their live action stuff. I'll trade Snyder and Nolan for Bruce Timm and Paul Dini any day!



I always think that every time I watch them.

Just use the comic movie as your storyboard. Give me exactly the same but with people and Im happy


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## Ibanezsam4

wankerness said:


> I dunno, it might have been the opposite, with "Hey, Deadpool made more money than BvS and cost 1/5 as much, maybe we should do more of those!"



hopefully studio execs don't start confusing humor with character. The Flash is supposed to be funny, but i don't think forcing a character into throwing out one liners will help with bad scripting


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## MFB

Ibanezsam4 said:


> hopefully studio execs don't start confusing humor with character. The Flash is supposed to be funny, but i don't think forcing a character into throwing out one liners will help with bad scripting



Wally West/Bart Allen Flash is, yes. Barry Allen/Jay Garrick Flash? Not so much.


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## Xaios

I'm completely ambivalent on both Wonder Woman and any DC movies that aren't either Superman 1 or 2 or the Nolan Batman movies. However, I will admit that the Wonder Woman trailer has something that DC movies really seem to have forgotten about lately:

COLOUR.


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## wankerness

Xaios said:


> I'm completely ambivalent on both Wonder Woman and any DC movies that aren't either Superman 1 or 2 or the Nolan Batman movies. However, I will admit that the Wonder Woman trailer has something that DC movies really seem to have forgotten about lately:
> 
> COLOUR.



Yeah, it's pretty. BvS is weird in how incredibly ugly it is for the vast majority, but then the climax does have a lot of super-bright colors and craziness. Possibly not coincidentally, it's the only part I really enjoyed, besides the opening with Bruce Wayne experiencing the destruction from MoS at ground level. I just don't get why they have to suck all the life out of the majority of the movie. Does anyone LIKE that color-drained look? It's terrible. My guess is most people just aren't bothered by it, but almost no one actually WANTS it. I can't imagine if the film had been released with regular colors that anyone would have complained.

Justice League looks like more of the same, visually. Flash looked cool at least.


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## awake69

Personally, I think the DC animated movies have been excellent overall. This new Wonder Woman film looks good, but the animated feature was excellent. Now, with "Justice League Dark" coming in the fall, I'm more convinced that DC has a better home in animation than in feature film.

Marvel, on the other hand, is only NOW getting to the stuff I've waited my whole life to see. Doctor Strange I've wanted to see since I was ten. Same goes for the more cosmic stuff like Guardians. Now, give me Namor and Silver Surfer (a GOOD one) and I'll die happy.


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## A-Branger

this is going to sound not that much weird but way too overthinking but....

it surprise me that the Feminist legions of the world havent jump into it yet

Wonder Woman, the all "girl power" superhero, basically the only girl out there in that universe, defending everything that its great about women!!!!!...... cue trailer for her movie...... first scene.... guy on the beach with her helping.... "Are you a man????     !!!!!!!!! omg omg omg!!!! " (which happens to be her lover in the movie and the reason she goes away from the island) 

LOL


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## Xaios

Well well...

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wonder_woman_2017

Currently sitting at 97% positive reviews. I am intrigued.


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## wankerness

I always thought it had a good chance to be vastly better than the last DC movies, but it sounds like it's really good, like much better than I could have hoped. I'm frequently seeing comparisons to the 78 Superman movie in terms of being earnest, optimistic, and having a heroine who's not all MORALLY CONFLICTED and DARK and GRAY like the last iteration of Superman so unfortunately was (as well as...practically every superhero out there!!!). I'm REALLY looking forward to it, as the really corny scenes in the Captain America movies are what make him my favorite of those Marvel guys. Like, that grenade scene in the first one? THAT'S the kind of thing that gets me going!! A lot of reviews say the big centerpiece WWI battle scene is really emotionally overwhelming (largely due to the heroism on display, I guess???), and I'm sure it will work like gangbusters on me.

Most reviews talk about how charismatic and likable Gal Gadot is, too, which was my primary concern since she's just kind of an empty model-as-actress in the F&F movies. After seeing that Conan training skit last week I decided that I love her and that she has the perfect look/temperament to be a really inspiring character, and good to hear she apparently pulled it off.

SO YEAH, WONDER WOMAN F YEAH



(I LOVE how weird the cello part of this theme is and kind of hope it's used in this one, even though the ridiculous Hans Zimmer sections make it too Snydery and try-hard tough)

It's too bad this is probably all going to get shat on by Justice League, but hey. I've heard this is one of the super rare superhero flicks that tells a complete story with a real ending. Maybe they'll let Patty Jenkins do a #2 that again ignores the GRIMDARK universe.

My greatest hope is that this actually kills at the box office and is allowed to appeal to all audiences instead of getting co-opted by idiots trying to make a political statement and getting killed, like Ghostbusters (though that one was not good). If this manages to make more money than the total garbage that was Suicide Squad I will be overjoyed.


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## KnightBrolaire

Am I the only one that actually likes grimdark anti-heroes? Lobo or Red Hood needs a bloody movie already. We already know that DC has more balls than marvel when comes to making an r-rated superhero movie (constantine came out like 10 years ago ffs). I'd love it if they could bring Constantine back to the big screen.. I also actually liked Affleck's dark knight returns esque batman (that's one of my favorite batman comics).
I really do hope that Wonder Woman is good, the trailer was excellent, and based off my past experiences, if they can put a good trailer together then the film is generally pretty good.
But yeah that theme sounds doooope. Reminds me of 300 in the beginning.


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## PunkBillCarson

I personally don't understand being a fan of just one (DC/Marvel). I mean I get that there's some competitiveness between the two, and maybe it's because I've enjoyed all the movies each has put out in the last few years (with the exception of Iron Man 3 and Thor 2) but since these two have been releasing movies, I've been having the time of my life. Yes I enjoyed Suicide Squad, BvS, pretty sure I'll enjoy WW and JL.


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## Bloody_Inferno

So all the positive feedback from advanced reviews are giving me hope. I really want to like the DCEU, but so far the output begs to differ. Wonder Woman is such an important movie on so many aspects, so I really want this to be the DCEU movie to win me over, and it's on the right track. I'll be watching this on Friday.



KnightBrolaire said:


> Am I the only one that actually likes grimdark anti-heroes? Lobo or Red Hood needs a bloody movie already. We already know that DC has more balls than marvel when comes to making an r-rated superhero movie (constantine came out like 10 years ago ffs). I'd love it if they could bring Constantine back to the big screen.. I also actually liked Affleck's dark knight returns esque batman (that's one of my favorite batman comics).



That really depends on the character and source material. Deadpool and Wolverine demanded an R Rated movie (Logan made better sense as one when you compare it to the bloodless killing on previous movies). Lobo and Red Hood definitely should be R Rated if an adaptation comes along. In contrast, not everybody works all grim and dark. It's my biggest problem with Superman's current DCEU incarnation.


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## Bloody_Inferno

Noisy Humbucker said:


> And really, it's about the studios. DC has a darker tone than Marvel in general, always has as far as I'm concerned. I don't think the studio was totally wrong with their approach with Man of Steel and BvS, they just didn't stand a chance in the environment Marvel/Disney has set up.



Warner Bros have been insisting in making darker toned superhero movies since Tim Burton's Batman. It made a ton of money, and it pretty much set the standard and tone for every other subsequent superhero movie, and even their animated series ever made (Batman The Animated series, raising such a high standard, owes so much to Burton's Batman).

In turn, WB also insist that the 90s gritty comic era that started with Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns is where they want to base their movies. Again a ton of money was made with the aforementioned comic, and The Death And Return Of Superman. WB has planned a shared universe as far back as Batman Returns, and even wanted the Nicholas Cage Superman move based on his death. Hell, the 4 people who saw Green Lantern can tell you that hinted a shared universe too.

I don't blame WB for trying to capitalize on that era of comic culture. But so far, aside from Burton, and Nolan's Batman, it's been disastrous. It wasn't all grim and dark before, Richard Donner's Superman was all bright, and is still the best Superman movie ever made.

I agree that DCEU started running the race far too late to catch up to MCU. Marvel had a few movies under their belt before doing the team-up film, and one of DC's biggest missteps is trying to do all of that within a short time.

Marvel's problem on the other hand, is they're under the Disney umbrella so the have to do family friendly movies that aim to please everyone.


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## OmegaSlayer

My mom wants to go see it...which...doesn't bode well for the movie quality


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## bostjan

I'm intrigued by all of the personal opinions that seem to differ so much from my own observations that I sometimes think I saw a different movie than everyone else.

For me, a film is about characters, plot, dialogue, editing, and cinematography. I think plot inconsistencies are par for the course, but if the movie has a good foundation in characters and whatnot, then people don't notice the little goofs as much. Any film based off of a book, comic, another movie, etc., faces additional problems in capturing the spirit of the source material correctly. This is where I think Nolan hit the ball out of the park. Batman is a conflicted character with a lot of textures, and there were periods where the comics got quite dark. Nolan's films captured the spirit of the source material, offered an interesting plot, and represented characters in a way that really did the source material justice. He also did some quite notable cinematography in all three of his films. People who hate his take on Batman just puzzle me, but there are quite a few.

I felt that Marvel has had its ups and downs. Iron Man seemed to really capture the character well, and had good dialogue and a decent plot, but did forsake a few things from the source material. I thought it was forgivable. Iron Man 2, to me, was kind of a no surprises film, but Iron Man 3, for me, committed several source-material-based sins and just did not make up for it with improved characters, plot, or dialogue... Avengers put blockbuster stars together on screen in a calculated way, and I thought it paid off quite well. The characters really grabbed me, the dialogue was mostly great, the plot worked well for me, and the cinematography was improved.

Then there is DC. How can you not compare Marvel and DC? BvS and Suicide Squad, to me, felt off. They could have done more with the characters, they could have been more subtle with the cinematography, they could have had better plot - it's not that these films were flat out bad, but they just were average Hollywood films that happened to have comic characters in them.

But this is a totally different movie. I hope people will look at it that way instead of thinking of it as part of BvS or as part of the Justice League.


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## wankerness

KnightBrolaire said:


> Am I the only one that actually likes grimdark anti-heroes? Lobo or Red Hood needs a bloody movie already. We already know that DC has more balls than marvel when comes to making an r-rated superhero movie (constantine came out like 10 years ago ffs). I'd love it if they could bring Constantine back to the big screen.. I also actually liked Affleck's dark knight returns esque batman (that's one of my favorite batman comics).
> I really do hope that Wonder Woman is good, the trailer was excellent, and based off my past experiences, if they can put a good trailer together then the film is generally pretty good.
> But yeah that theme sounds doooope. Reminds me of 300 in the beginning.



I have no problem with grimdark anti-heroes as long as it isn't forced and awful and against the character. I loved Logan, for example. MoS/BvS felt way too try-hard with getting Superman to be as tortured as Batman and I was not a fan of that version of the character. And it's like....if they make SUPERMAN a dark character, I figured they'd make EVERYONE a dark character, since Superman is historically as non-dark as it gets. With what they did, I figured we'd be stuck with Marvel if we wanted any lightness. Again, Captain America was the only current "Superman" type going. I love what they did with him, and the last two "solo" movies showed how you could make a somewhat dark movie while still having that character be fighting for "truth, justice, and the American way."



Bloody_Inferno said:


> So all the positive feedback from advanced reviews are giving me hope. I really want to like the DCEU, but so far the output begs to differ. Wonder Woman is such an important movie on so many aspects, so I really want this to be the DCEU movie to win me over, and it's on the right track. I'll be watching this on Friday.
> 
> That really depends on the character and source material. Deadpool and Wolverine demanded an R Rated movie (Logan made better sense as one when you compare it to the bloodless killing on previous movies). Lobo and Red Hood definitely should be R Rated if an adaptation comes along. In contrast, not everybody works all grim and dark. It's my biggest problem with Superman's current DCEU incarnation.



Agreed with all of this. I dunno if I'll get in to see it on Friday or not, but it's definitely moved to the top of my hyped list for summer now (War for the Planet of the Apes is second).



OmegaSlayer said:


> My mom wants to go see it...which...doesn't bode well for the movie quality



I, too, judge a movie that isn't out's quality based on who wants to see it. 



bostjan said:


> I'm intrigued by all of the personal opinions that seem to differ so much from my own observations that *I sometimes think I saw a different movie than everyone else.*
> 
> Then there is DC. How can you not compare Marvel and DC? BvS and Suicide Squad, to me, felt off. They could have done more with the characters, they could have been more subtle with the cinematography, they could have had better plot - it's not that these films were flat out bad, but they just were average Hollywood films that happened to have comic characters in them.
> 
> *But this is a totally different movie. I hope people will look at it that way instead of thinking of it as part of BvS or as part of the Justice League.*



Uh...so did you see Wonder Woman already? If so, what did you think of it apart from "I hope people don't judge it based on the sins of the other DC movies?"

I kind of liked MoS, and I really didn't mind BvS apart from how long it was and the unbelievably annoying Jesse Eisenberg, but I truly did hate Suicide Squad. Almost every part of it grated, such as the incredibly try-hard opening in which we got approximately 15 seconds of 25 different very popular songs while EXTREME fonts flashed across the screen introducing all the characters, the nearly non-existent character development through the middle, Harley Quinn's completely un-superpowered character being the leader of the group just because she's good at hitting people with bats, the worst Joker ever, the villains who were like expensive renditions of Putties, the completely pointless character with the sword that completely pointlessly EATS SOULS, the idiotically gyrating empty suit with eyebrows that was Enchantress, and yet another pointless SKY PORTAL climax with tons of boring CGI. I could keep going on for pages, it was really a structural disaster with the most annoying tone this side of a Vanilla Ice video. Poochy to the EXTREME!!!


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## bostjan

wankerness said:


> Uh...so did you see Wonder Woman already? If so, what did you think of it apart from "I hope people don't judge it based on the sins of the other DC movies?"



No. Sorry if that was somehow misleading. 



wankerness said:


> I kind of liked MoS, and I really didn't mind BvS apart from how long it was and the unbelievably annoying Jesse Eisenberg, but I truly did hate Suicide Squad. Almost every part of it grated, such as the incredibly try-hard opening in which we got approximately 15 seconds of 25 different very popular songs while EXTREME fonts flashed across the screen introducing all the characters, the nearly non-existent character development through the middle, Harley Quinn's completely un-superpowered character being the leader of the group just because she's good at hitting people with bats, the worst Joker ever, the villains who were like expensive renditions of Putties, the completely pointless character with the sword that completely pointlessly EATS SOULS, the idiotically gyrating empty suit with eyebrows that was Enchantress, and yet another pointless SKY PORTAL climax with tons of boring CGI. I could keep going on for pages, it was really a structural disaster with the most annoying tone this side of a Vanilla Ice video. Poochy to the EXTREME!!!



I generally disliked MoS. The plot was a mess, and the characters were a mess. The visual effects and pacing were a little funky, and there was nothing that stood out about the scripting nor the performances. At least Suicide Squad had some quirks that were half annoying and half endearing. Man of Steel was just kind of blandly annoying until the end. I audibly gasped when


Spoiler



Superman snapped Zod's neck


It seemed out of character on multiple levels, and also not entirely feasible from what I understand of Kryptonian physics. But, oh well. It's just my personal opinion of the movie. Public opinion of the film is higher than SS or BvS.


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## wankerness

bostjan said:


> No. Sorry if that was somehow misleading.
> 
> 
> 
> I generally disliked MoS. The plot was a mess, and the characters were a mess. The visual effects and pacing were a little funky, and there was nothing that stood out about the scripting nor the performances. At least Suicide Squad had some quirks that were half annoying and half endearing. Man of Steel was just kind of blandly annoying until the end. I audibly gasped when
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Superman snapped Zod's neck
> 
> 
> It seemed out of character on multiple levels, and also not entirely feasible from what I understand of Kryptonian physics. But, oh well. It's just my personal opinion of the movie. Public opinion of the film is higher than SS or BvS.



To be honest, I think a big part of why I liked MoS was it was one of the first things I watched on my new surround system, and it is an EXTREMELY aggressive movie in terms of sound  I have little desire to rewatch it to find out if it was any good on a non-technical level. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, and I'd dislike it.


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## Bloody_Inferno

bostjan said:


> I generally disliked MoS. The plot was a mess, and the characters were a mess. The visual effects and pacing were a little funky, and there was nothing that stood out about the scripting nor the performances. At least Suicide Squad had some quirks that were half annoying and half endearing. Man of Steel was just kind of blandly annoying until the end. I audibly gasped when
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Superman snapped Zod's neck
> 
> 
> It seemed out of character on multiple levels, and also not entirely feasible from what I understand of Kryptonian physics. But, oh well. It's just my personal opinion of the movie. Public opinion of the film is higher than SS or BvS.



These are pretty much the reasons why Man Of Steel disappointed me so much. They sucked the fun out of Superman and turned him into a mopey objectivist prick. I still think it's better than BvS and Suicide Squad, the former making Superman even less likeable.

Now I'm contemplating whether I should wait for tomorrow or drop everything to see a late screening of Wonder Woman tonight...


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## OmegaSlayer

@wankerness my mom is 71 years old ^_^
She had never seen science fiction/superhero/fantasy movies LOL


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## wankerness

Wonder Woman isn't showing at my local ONE SCREEN theater, unfortunately. We get week two of Pirates of the Caribbean (barf). I'll probably have to make the drive to see it on Sunday or something when I don't have to make reservations ahead of time! After another ton of reviews hit the net, the percentage on RT went down, but only slightly. This clearly isn't a Mad Max FR level masterpiece or anything, but it sounds damn good and like just the kind of thing I want to see.


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## bostjan

wankerness said:


> Wonder Woman isn't showing at my local ONE SCREEN theater, unfortunately. We get week two of Pirates of the Caribbean (barf). I'll probably have to make the drive to see it on Sunday or something when I don't have to make reservations ahead of time! After another ton of reviews hit the net, the percentage on RT went down, but only slightly. This clearly isn't a Mad Max FR level masterpiece or anything, but it sounds damn good and like just the kind of thing I want to see.



I can almost feel your pain. We have a 3-screen theater in town, and any time there is a 3D movie, it takes up two screens, sometimes all three, but, other than that, the cinema is pretty good about offering the three most popular films. We also have a smaller cinema inside of our local art gallery that shows more artsy, less commercially popular films. Sometimes there is a movie I want to go see, and the cinema doesn't have it, so I look online and find out that I'd have to drive 90-120 minutes to see it. So I write down the name of the film on a list in my notebook and wait for it to show up on DVD or Netflix. Anyway, our little cinema is showing WW, currently. Reviews so far have been stellar, but it looks like we will have a busy weekend with homeowner-type stuff, so I guess I'll pass, at least for this weekend, and instead be a boring adult.


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## Lorcan Ward

After BvS and Suicide Squad I won't be seeing anymore DC films in the cinema although the reviews for this are a welcome change to the usual. 



wankerness said:


> This clearly isn't a Mad Max FR level masterpiece or anything, but it sounds damn good and like just the kind of thing I want to see.



Some trivia but before FR George Miller was set to direct a Justice League film back in 2008 and Wonder Woman was going to be played by Megan Gale(one of the Vuvalini).


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## Bloody_Inferno

Just came back from the cinema...

As some of these threads on superhero movies, or movies in general have documented, I've been rather, to put it nicely, 'indignant' on the DCEU movies. Man Of Steel was a huge dry joyless disappointment, and I despised Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad. It made me sound like a one sided snot nosed Marvel fanboy, despite being otherwise (seriously I mean that). So coming back from Wonder Woman... I felt refreshed. DCEU finally got it right. 

To compare it to previous DCEU movies is unfairly easy. But by doing so the reasons are crystal clear:

- The plot, structure and screenplay is recognisable and coherent, I can tell and follow what the hell is going on.
- Dialogue is believable, and sound like humans talking
- Cinematography doesn't look like you rubbed crap into your eyes. 
- There's actual love for the source material shown on this movie. 

If anything, Wonder Woman has a similar vibe to some of Marvel Phase 1 origin movies (namely Cap First Avenger and a bit of the first Thor movie)... yeah ok it's another origin movie. Take that as a flaw if you will. The only other flaw I can say without spoilers is the slight loss of 'Wonder' actually. Wonder Woman already took the attention from that walrus cankers she first debuted in so it somewhat loses the impact, a minor quibble though.

Still, being the first female led superhero movie of the new generation, Wonder Woman was important and needed to be at least good. And I'm certainly glad it was indeed a good movie.

TL/DR: Anyone down on DCEU, Wonder Woman is the remedy we've been waiting for.


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## wankerness

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Just came back from the cinema...
> 
> 
> - Cinematography doesn't look like you rubbed crap into your eyes.



From what I've heard/seen in the trailers, the last act's cinematography does turn into garbage gray/blue joyless Snyder trash with tons of pointless slow motion, which I'm sure was mandated to force it to fit into the "canon." Is that accurate?


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## TedEH

Bloody_Inferno said:


> - The plot, structure and screenplay is recognisable and coherent, I can tell and follow what the hell is going on.
> - Dialogue is believable, and sound like humans talking
> - Cinematography doesn't look like you rubbed crap into your eyes.



It hurts my brain a little bit that a gigantic budget film is considered a "good" one based on this kind of criteria. As in, at this level, given that we should be able to assume the film is being made by professionals, this should be the very base level of what's acceptable at all, not so much a measure of a "good" movie.


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## wankerness

TedEH said:


> It hurts my brain a little bit that a gigantic budget film is considered a "good" one based on this kind of criteria. As in, at this level, given that we should be able to assume the film is being made by professionals, this should be the very base level of what's acceptable at all, not so much a measure of a "good" movie.



He was clearly phrasing those in such a way that he was more criticizing the related movies to this (ex, Suicide Squad) rather than saying they made this stand out by "regular movie" standards. But, either way, that's been the case with huge budgets since about the time Transformers and Pirates of the Caribbean came out


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## Triple-J

Saw this today really enjoyed it because it's not like previous DC films but it's nothing like the Marvel films either infact the first half was a fantasy film while the second felt like a war movie and although there's shades of Batman Begins and Superman'78 in there it's very much it's own thing.

Full marks to Gal Gadot as I've only ever seen her in bit parts but she leads this movie incredibly well Chris Pine was a shock too as he's come across as a bland slab of handsomeness in everything I've ever seen him in but I really felt for the guy here and loved watching him and Gal Gadot together as their chemistry was great and their characters were true to the comics.

The WW1 scenes with the Blackhawks were great and I liked how there seemed to be a subtle point being made about how awful the reality of war is and how loss affects people it's a theme which kept popping up throughout the film and I felt it was handled well as it never came over as preachy and felt like it was from the heart.

Technically speaking the movie is shot/lit beautifully with solid colour & shadow there are a few shots where the cgi is obvious but not in the same dreary artificial manner as BvS and after a while I found myself wishing BvS had been filmed in a similar style.
Speaking of BvS some reviews have said the final third gets a bit Zack Snyderish so I was half expecting a Snyder/Bayformers type thing but (and I say this as someone who can't stomach cgi) I don't think it looked that bad it's just that one particular scene plays out like a God of War/Castlevania boss fight come to life which may actually be a good thing in some peoples eyes.

Overall it's not perfect (pacing is a bit iffy in spots) but it's pretty damn close and this has me geared up for Justice League in a way that I wasn't before.


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## wankerness

After seeing the trailer for Justice League before it, it has me a lot LESS geared up for Justice League. It's such an absolutely hideous gray, blue and yellow barf of a movie and there were 2 or 3 upskirt shots of wonder woman in the trailer alone (there are ZERO in this entire movie). Plus, sarcastic quips right and left. Just...ugh. F Zach Snyder's filming style.

This, on the other hand, was quite good. I was not a big fan of anything before Chris Pine showed up, but from there it all worked. The big climax could also probably have been dialed back as it was a LOT of CGI explosions, but meh. The obvious comparison is Captain America 1. It did a lot of things better than that movie - it felt sort of like the part in CA:TFA that was very unfortunately relegated to a montage. Here we actually get to meet her squad and see their adventures. The romance was also comparable, though I think that was done better in Captain America. They are the only two superhero movies in the last ten years where the romance scenes are actually good and actually add anything to the movie!!

That big central battle sequence starting with when she's being walked towards the front and starts seeing suffering left and right and keeps trying to help all the way through when she takes out the sniper is STUNNING and is the best scene of that sort since I don't even know when. It might not be as visually impressive, but that's exactly the kind of thing I think of when I think "superhero" and it is barely on display in most of these sorts of things. The way she eventually just can't take it anymore and runs out into no-man's land is like, chills-worthy!! She's a really great character.

I liked this quote from the director. I heard she's signed on for the sequel - thank GOD.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Watched it yesterday with my wife and we loved it.


----------



## setsuna7

Just saw it today, Chris Pine was amazing!!! Pine brought so much depth in the dynamics between Trevor and Prince. The ending was a little sloppy, my only gripe was that it felt like the First Cap A movie, not that it's a bad thing, probably because of similar themes maybe ...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

It was good, not amazing. I think it's a one time watch, not something I would revisit ever. Really dug the fight scenes/choreography (for the most part) but some of the line delivery in the beginning was very hammy. Gadot was hit or miss with her delivery at times. Pine was great. Ewen Bremner did a great job as an alcoholic ptsd ridden sniper. Elena Anaya did a good job as Dr. Poison.


Spoiler



The music definitely didn't help make the opening fight scenes seem epic, just corny. Basically the whole part on Themeskyra was corny, though colorful. I felt like they didn't really dig into the horrors of war, it was all too sanitized for the pg-13 rating imo. WWI was one of the most grueling horrific wars ever. The constant artillery barrages, gas attacks, nighttime trench raids and brutal medieval esque hand to hand combat were not given their dues imo. Yes it wasn't as grimdark as BVS, but with subject matter like WWI you kind of need to do grimdark (at least for those parts of the film).


----------



## A-Branger

I liked it. Wasnt THE movie, but pretty good. Good like Cap America 1, great movie but not amazing.

I for one I actually liked Mas of Steel. I though it was great to see a more "realistic" version of superman and I enjoy it as a more of the self-discovery journey, I didnt mind the color tone of the movie either. Problem for me was that due to now every superhero movie for some reason "needs" to have that bigger than life villan, the movie evolved to that fight/ending, but due to the long back history part of the movie they didnt really give time for him to be "superman" first, they trow him into the battle right away

either way, back to WW. movie was great, I love that they didnt overuse her music "theme". Something I really really hated in BvS, people "oh I love her score"... bullcrap, her music score stood up like a sore thumb in that movie. Its like they used orchestra score for the whole thing and for that one scene they put barney the dinosaur tv theme. It didnt fit, and it made it way too stupid obvious. like "hey kids, this is a superhero.. get it?...good.. her name is wonder woman....can you repeat that?...good.." So for once was good that in her movie they didnt overuse her score and when it was played it felt more blended with the rest of it.

Gal was "ok". I think its more of the character itself factor and because shes hot. But actress?....meh really, she did her part, wasnt amazing, wasnt bad, maybe its jsut the script/direction/whatever?. Shes hot to look at and keep me watching lol. But I agree with some other internet comments on she should have been more ripped if she supposed to be THE warrior whos been training since she was a kid. Gal just looked "normal", fit. But not athletic fit. I think this was a missed opportunity to show the world that a woman its more beautiful when has an athletic body rather than just another "thin" actress. And maybe Im cherry picking here, but the need to put heels on her costume?, tha F that purpose does for "battle", apart from the "shes a girl, so she must have some sort of heel on her shoes/boots/costume, because girl" hollywod cliché. Again another missed opportunity for hollywood to dial down on the women stereotype in movies.

speaking on her costume I loved they ditched the american flag out of it. And this is something I really liked about the movie too. For once the movie wasnt a " 'murica..u..s...a...u..s..a..u..s..a..." fest. Not even one mention of it, which I found awesome.

my only complain was about the very last scene


Spoiler



why she goes into the roof and randomly jumps into, pretty much nothing?..... I get it, its the cheesy superhero ending movie cliche thing, but apart from "shes being a superhero", was was the reason?, seem no sign of danger, and where she was jump into? the boat? WTF?



either way, great movie, glad to see it at the cinema, and happy to see it again when I can dowloaded


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

wankerness said:


> He was clearly phrasing those in such a way that he was more criticizing the related movies to this (ex, Suicide Squad) rather than saying they made this stand out by "regular movie" standards. But, either way, that's been the case with huge budgets since about the time Transformers and Pirates of the Caribbean came out



Perhaps I was too subtle? 

Now since most of us has seen Wonder Woman, for me to continue ragging on the DCEU movies before it would be stubborn, churlish and counter productive: So let's keep doing it!



TedEH said:


> It hurts my brain a little bit that a gigantic budget film is considered a "good" one based on this kind of criteria. As in, at this level, given that we should be able to assume the film is being made by professionals, this should be the very base level of what's acceptable at all, not so much a measure of a "good" movie.



Correct to a degree. Hell, I'd list movies like Pulp Fiction, Memento and Cloud Atlas as great movies (IMO) that completely break my said criteria. But again as already stated, MOS, BVS and SS screenplay and structural flaws stick out like a sore itch now that WW is out. The first 2 movies often are so incoherent in flow that it feels like an over enthusiastic child telling a story to his friends during recess, going for as much exposition as possible. You don't need to be a film graduate to see that they're both over bloated and messily put together (Lois Lane, and obviously Lex Luther). Plot focal points and certain character actions make no damn sense and everyone knows that Superman's BVS arc is completely undermined with the existence of Justice League... ok I'll let that one pass for the non comic book fans, but at the same time...

Suicide Squad has the same problems but done more obviously. The post production interference hurt this movie a lot yes, but the whole movie is contrived as all hell, going around with a forced sense of fun. Both this and BVS got extended cuts, but if we as an audience are expected to continually play the song and dance to wait for the uncut home editions because the theatrical cut just didn't, well, 'cut' it, then there's trouble in the ranks in these group of professionals (BVS costed half a billion to make dammit). Fine, Apocalypse Now, fine Kingdom Of Heaven, but in a shared universe twice in a row? No.

I'm not even going to comment on other franchises like Transformers or Pirates Of The Caribbean.



A-Branger said:


> I love that they didnt overuse her music "theme". Something I really really hated in BvS, people "oh I love her score"... bullcrap, her music score stood up like a sore thumb in that movie. Its like they used orchestra score for the whole thing and for that one scene they put barney the dinosaur tv theme. It didnt fit, and it made it way too stupid obvious. like "hey kids, this is a superhero.. get it?...good.. her name is wonder woman....can you repeat that?...good.." So for once was good that in her movie they didnt overuse her score and when it was played it felt more blended with the rest of it.



More BVS pettiness.  The theme song itself is fine. But agreed with the above, when completely misused on that once scene, you know, the unsubtle overlong overbloated preview for the subsequent solo movies.



Ok that's enough bile and venom. Wonder Woman...

I will say that the Amazon part of the first act was a little under utilized. Diana's origin takes a leaf from the New 52 canon, though I wished they incorporated more of the classic origin, the whimsical and weird side of things. Still, I'm glad they didn't give WW the look with the awkward pants. And the Amazons themselves could be more developed.

I also wished that they developed more on Diana's moral dilemma rather than to squeeze as much as they did all in the third act. Possibly to balance the rather forgettable villain that most MCU origin movies are cursed with. There's the obligatory Snyder slo mo stuff, but they're tolerable here. I did giggle at one shot where WW flexed in rage. 

And hey, a movie (that's not Rise Of The Guardians) where Chris Pine is actually good.


----------



## russmuller

I saw it earlier today. I really liked it. The themes, the story, the visuals; thoroughly good. The fact that Gal Gadot is painfully gorgeous doesn't make it any worse to watch.

It wasn't flawless. There were a few lazy tropes in there, but I thought that overall it was done well enough to forgive those bits. I was happy to suspend disbelief.

As someone who has spent a fair chunk of time studying WWI, I thought it was the perfect stage for this story. It was amusing to see them take an interesting figure like Ludendorff and make him into a comic villain.


----------



## asfeir

Good movie, I enjoyed everything except the fight in the end which I thought was a bit too much (visual effects etc). Hoping to see more of her.


----------



## TedEH

A-Branger said:


> Again another missed opportunity for hollywood to dial down on the women stereotype in movies.


Honestly, I think this comment makes me more enthusiastic to see the film than not. Not because I have some sort of weird desire to support stereotyping of anyone, but because I don't think that just because the word "woman" is in the title that the film needs to be a tool for activism. I wanted to like the Supergirl TV show, but it spends sooooo much time beating you over the head with feminism, while still doing all the kinds of things that, in my mind, sort of miss the point in terms of trying to improve the portrayal of women.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TedEH said:


> Honestly, I think this comment makes me more enthusiastic to see the film than not. Not because I have some sort of weird desire to support stereotyping of anyone, but because I don't think that just because the word "woman" is in the title that the film needs to be a tool for activism. I wanted to like the Supergirl TV show, but it spends sooooo much time beating you over the head with feminism, while still doing all the kinds of things that, in my mind, sort of miss the point in terms of trying to improve the portrayal of women.


i will never understand the appeal of that show. I tried watching the first 2 episodes and couldn't stand it.


----------



## TedEH

^ And yet, official critical reception is that it was basically the perfect TV show. It could do no wrong.


----------



## A-Branger

TedEH said:


> Honestly, I think this comment makes me more enthusiastic to see the film than not. Not because I have some sort of weird desire to support stereotyping of anyone, but because I don't think that just because the word "woman" is in the title that the film needs to be a tool for activism. I wanted to like the Supergirl TV show, but it spends sooooo much time beating you over the head with feminism, while still doing all the kinds of things that, in my mind, sort of miss the point in terms of trying to improve the portrayal of women.


I wasnt talking about "feminism" f that, Im with you that Im sick of the curretn trend to make everything a PC activist parade. And no, this movie doesnt touch the subject at all, which you would be happy to hear, and which I though it was great as it could have been so easy to do so, yet they didnt do it. I was jsut cherry picking stupid details like putting heels on her costume. Not because Im trying to "defend womens", but more because I think its stupid, and theres no reason on why to do so. It doesnt serves a purpose, it doesnt fit with her character, it doesnt makes sense for her character, and it wouldnt had made any difference, since I bet lot of people didnt notice. But I do bet you was un-comfortable for her. But it was there because "shes a girl". Like I want them to drop down the stereotypes, but thats it, I dont want them to go in the opposite direction and scream it to the whole world to see, just drop it and move on, no talk, no parade, just be normal.. That for me its always been IMO the best solution for topics like that of "equality" or whatever, the more you talk about it and the more you point at it, the more separation you create, the only way to "fix it", its for you to do your part and shut up about it. Just like this movie "here, amazing superhero girl movie" and done, nothing is being said in the movie about it, its just is. And althouhg they ofcourse might have promote it bit here and there, it wasnt really much, not like the gosthbusters one, where was a "look at UUSSSSS, we have a vaginaaaaaaaa" kinda marketing about it



KnightBrolaire said:


> i will never understand the appeal of that show. I tried watching the first 2 episodes and couldn't stand it.


same with you, I watched prob 1 season?, not sure if I reach the second one. Mostly because I dont own a TV so everything I watch is online, so there wasnt anythiing to watch. But I got tired of it reaaaally quick. Bad bad bad scrit, storylines, huge plot holes. Things that makes no sense. "ho look its the personal assistant to the most bossiest boss ever in history!!.." yet shes able to disapear from her work for hours, come back and her boss doesnt notice?, in every episode?... yeah I know "its a TV show"... but they exagerate that and stuff like that all the time and I couldnt stand it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TedEH said:


> ^ And yet, official critical reception is that it was basically the perfect TV show. It could do no wrong.


popular opinion vs critics, it doesn't hold up nearly as well. From what I've read/the little bit I've watched it's just another mediocre CW superhero show, just more female centric.
http://www.metacritic.com/tv/supergirl-2015 
There's a lot of outliers on the user scores (for both ends of the spectrum) but I think that there's more than enough data points there to mitigate those outliers. The user score should offer a more representative aggregate score/public opinion on the show.


----------



## wankerness

TedEH said:


> Honestly, I think this comment makes me more enthusiastic to see the film than not. Not because I have some sort of weird desire to support stereotyping of anyone, but because I don't think that just because the word "woman" is in the title that the film needs to be a tool for activism. I wanted to like the Supergirl TV show, but it spends sooooo much time beating you over the head with feminism, while still doing all the kinds of things that, in my mind, sort of miss the point in terms of trying to improve the portrayal of women.



A-Branger posted a ton on this, and I don't agree with all of it, but I pretty much agree with the general thrust of his statements that the marketing could have gone very wrong and they've done all the right things here. The film is being co-opted by fans and random clickbait writers everywhere as a tool for activism, but unlike Ghostbusters, the entire studio and the maker of the movie aren't being d-bags trying to constantly talk about how you're sexist if you don't like it and OMG THIS IS SO PROGRESSIVE and all that crap. It makes its point all the stronger by not screeching it. I've seen tons of reactions from women that it's incredibly empowering, but the movie itself is never doing so in a way that could ever offend any but the most staunch sexists out there.

I watched it with one of my mega-conservative friends and his reaction was basically "I liked that they never did anything in your face, like I was expecting her to have some idiotic line like 'I AM NO MAN' when they were talking about no-man's land and she decided to cross it. Also, I liked that they actually included things that women do better than men, such as be more empathetic and nurturing, as opposed to just trying to be like 'WOMEN CAN DO ANYTHING A MAN CAN DO THEY ARE EQUAL!!!'" He and I have very different thoughts on "gender roles," and I was pleasantly surprised to find this movie didn't offend even someone like him.

Regarding the costume, I get that it looks sexist in a vacuum, but at least they went to a lot of length to contextualize it. Like, they make it a logical extension from what the Amazons were wearing. And...check out what the ancient Greek MEN wore into battle:










It's really not that bad. Certainly a lot less bad than the comic/70s show outfits. The high heels thing is slightly valid, but they make it look like actual armor all the way down. It's not stilettos or jutting heels anything like that (ex, BLACK WIDOW in the Marvel universe, or practically any action lady).

HOWEVER, as I mentioned before, the frickin Justice League trailer has MULTIPLE shots where the camera is looking directly up her skirt as she does sweep kicks, cause Zach Snyder is only a bit better than Michael Bay, who has to film every woman as pornily as possible.

Oh, and for your daily dose of brain failure, check out this article from the outrage-o-sphere:



> This movie wasn’t made with all women in mind, it’s for the women who can ignore certain atrocities which don’t directly affect them.
> 
> Dear White Feminists, FINALLY, a superhero movie for YOU! How marvelous that you finally have a kickass, badass, cisgender, abled bodied, thin, white woman hero to worship on screen. You’ve waited so long, and Warner Brothers has finally given you what you wanted to see.
> 
> Now I know, I’m a salty person and I should be happy that the world FINALLY has Wonder Woman as a film, because when white women succeed, everybody succeeds, amirite? Yeah, no.
> 
> Listen, how was I supposed to suspend my feminisms for a whole two hours and twenty one minutes? I couldn’t. Every single time Diana Prince (aka- Wonder Woman), shed tears on screen over the children dying at the hands of merciless German soldiers during her trip to the end of World War One, I kept whispering, “but Gal, what about the children in Gaza?”
> 
> Yeah, that’s right, y’all think I was just going to let that go unmentioned? I think the fuck not. Your new sexy fave, Gal Gadot is a former Israeli soldier and during Israel’s assault on Gaza in 2014, she posted a picture on Facebook of her and her daughter praying and wrote the following statement:
> 
> “I am sending my love and prayers to my fellow Israeli citizens, especially to all the boys and girls who are risking their lives protecting my country against the horrific acts conducted by Hamas, who are hiding like cowards behind women and children…We shall overcome!!! #weareright



https://wearyourvoicemag.com/more/entertainment/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-white-feminist-hero

God, I hate the outrage-o-sphere.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

wankerness said:


> A-Branger posted a ton on this, and I don't agree with all of it, but I pretty much agree with the general thrust of his statements that the marketing could have gone very wrong and they've done all the right things here. The film is being co-opted by fans and random clickbait writers everywhere as a tool for activism, but unlike Ghostbusters, the entire studio and the maker of the movie aren't being d-bags trying to constantly talk about how you're sexist if you don't like it and OMG THIS IS SO PROGRESSIVE and all that crap. It makes its point all the stronger by not screeching it. I've seen tons of reactions from women that it's incredibly empowering, but the movie itself is never doing so in a way that could ever offend any but the most staunch sexists out there.
> 
> I watched it with one of my mega-conservative friends and his reaction was basically "I liked that they never did anything in your face, like I was expecting her to have some idiotic line like 'I AM NO MAN' when they were talking about no-man's land and she decided to cross it. Also, I liked that they actually included things that women do better than men, such as be more empathetic and nurturing, as opposed to just trying to be like 'WOMEN CAN DO ANYTHING A MAN CAN DO THEY ARE EQUAL!!!'" He and I have very different thoughts on "gender roles," and I was pleasantly surprised to find this movie didn't offend even someone like him.
> 
> Regarding the costume, I get that it looks sexist in a vacuum, but at least they went to a lot of length to contextualize it. Like, they make it a logical extension from what the Amazons were wearing. And...check out what the ancient Greek MEN wore into battle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's really not that bad. Certainly a lot less bad than the comic/70s show outfits. The high heels thing is slightly valid, but they make it look like actual armor all the way down. It's not stilettos or jutting heels anything like that (ex, BLACK WIDOW in the Marvel universe, or practically any action lady).
> 
> HOWEVER, as I mentioned before, the frickin Justice League trailer has MULTIPLE shots where the camera is looking directly up her skirt as she does sweep kicks, cause Zach Snyder is only a bit better than Michael Bay, who has to film every woman as pornily as possible.
> 
> Oh, and for your daily dose of brain failure, check out this article from the outrage-o-sphere:
> 
> 
> 
> https://wearyourvoicemag.com/more/entertainment/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-white-feminist-hero
> 
> God, I hate the outrage-o-sphere.


Ehh some of the amason's outfits were a bit impractical,but I came to watch a superhero movie, not an ancient greek period piece. I did like how they emulated the hoplite armor/helmets on some of the amazons though, that was a nice touch. I think people are forgetting the fact that there's at least one slow mo shot in the film of an amazon doing a flip or something, showing off her panties underneath the battle skirt. 
The crap about gaza is ridiculous. I'm sure there's other libtards out there that boycotted the film because hurr not having melissa mccarthy play wonder woman is discrimination against fat women or some other equally ridiculous idea.


----------



## TedEH

wankerness said:


> The film is being co-opted by fans and random clickbait writers everywhere as a tool for activism, but unlike Ghostbusters, the entire studio and the maker of the movie aren't being d-bags trying to constantly talk about how you're sexist if you don't like it and OMG THIS IS SO PROGRESSIVE and all that crap. It makes its point all the stronger by not screeching it. I've seen tons of reactions from women that it's incredibly empowering, but the movie itself is never doing so in a way that could ever offend any but the most staunch sexists out there.
> 
> I watched it with one of my mega-conservative friends and his reaction was basically "I liked that they never did anything in your face, like I was expecting her to have some idiotic line like 'I AM NO MAN' when they were talking about no-man's land and she decided to cross it. Also, I liked that they actually included things that women do better than men, such as be more empathetic and nurturing, as opposed to just trying to be like 'WOMEN CAN DO ANYTHING A MAN CAN DO THEY ARE EQUAL!!!'" He and I have very different thoughts on "gender roles," and I was pleasantly surprised to find this movie didn't offend even someone like him.



Yeah, I think we're all three on the same page, roughly. While I've got some less-than-popular opinions about gender and roles and feminism and all that stuff, I'm far from opposed to empowered portrayals of women. When I watched the Supergirl show, there were several scenes that existed purely for the activism, and it ruined the show for me. I vaguely remember a scene where the main character and her boss have a discussion about what it means to "be a good feminist", and scenes like that made it very clear that they were trying to send a very specific political message at the expense of good storytelling. I was worried, given all the co-opting of the film for activism, that this was going to go the same way.

IMO, I think there's something to be said of the film being an opportunity to do right by women- but without it being sort of "politicized". I want to watch a movie about an empowered woman fighting bad guys. I don't want to watch a movie about an activist fighting the patriarchy, disguised as a movie about an empowered woman fighting bad guys.


----------



## Triple-J

wankerness said:


> Oh, and for your daily dose of brain failure, check out this article from the outrage-o-sphere:
> https://wearyourvoicemag.com/more/entertainment/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-white-feminist-hero
> God, I hate the outrage-o-sphere.



It's an outrage that seems to swing in both directions as there's a minority of online WW articles that masquerade as reviews but are actually cynical tabloid rage pieces about how Gadot's support for the Israeli military means she's pure evil and therefore isn't fit to play the character or how this movie is some kind of politically correct liberal propaganda.


----------



## A-Branger

Iw as going to mention that but you beat me to it. That shes from Israel, which I thoguh it was awesome that they didnt trow another american actor. And about her with the army thing I dont know the full story, but I do know from my group of Israeli friends that everyone in the country needs to serve in the army for a period of time (forgot how long, if its 1-2 years minimum)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A-Branger said:


> Iw as going to mention that but you beat me to it. That shes from Israel, which I thoguh it was awesome that they didnt trow another american actor. And about her with the army thing I dont know the full story, but I do know from my group of Israeli friends that everyone in the country needs to serve in the army for a period of time (forgot how long, if its 1-2 years minimum)


it's 2 years minimum. same as germany, sweden, south korea and some other countries iirc.


----------



## bostjan

KnightBrolaire said:


> it's 2 years minimum. same as germany, sweden, south korea and some other countries iirc.


None of the countries you listed have compulsory conscription for both sexes like Israel does.

Germany: Voluntary
Sweden: Was compulsory. Someone claimed it was sexist that men had to serve, but women did not, so it's now voluntary.
South Korea: 21-36 months compulsory, depending on branch and function. Men only.

Israel: 2 years for women, 32 months for men.

Apples and oranges, if you ask me.


----------



## wankerness

I didn't realize Sweden had that. I think Switzerland was the only one I had heard of apart from Israel. For them, it looks like for women it's voluntary and for men it's mandatory. So, Israel may be the most hardcore as far as the 1st world is concerned?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bostjan said:


> None of the countries you listed have compulsory conscription for both sexes like Israel does.
> 
> Germany: Voluntary
> Sweden: Was compulsory. Someone claimed it was sexist that men had to serve, but women did not, so it's now voluntary.
> South Korea: 21-36 months compulsory, depending on branch and function. Men only.
> 
> Israel: 2 years for women, 32 months for men.
> 
> Apples and oranges, if you ask me.


huh, it's been a while since I looked at stuff like that, guess I forgot. my bad.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

If it's gotten so petty as to criticize a few seconds worth of music, I have to ask if some people aren't going into the movie determined to dislike it.


----------



## budda

I'm a casual movie-goer, and I really enjoyed it.

Also, this exists.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I absolutely loved it. She was PERFECT for the role. And I 100% agree about that central battle scene, where she walks into no-man's land. This movie brought me closer to tears than any other superhero movie. Which is what is SUPPOSED to happen when we see someone fighting for truth, justice, and peace. Frankly, I'm surprised DC had it in them, given how I am used to DC movies sucking (with the exception of Dark Knight). I also totally dug her accent in the film, because I like the idea that every superhero doesn't necessarily come from the US. I thought that totally worked. 

And agreed that Justice League looks like it's going to suck. Maybe if I find myself at a 12 year old's birthday party where no one is paying close attention to a movie, I'll rent it. But it looks like meaningless fluff.

And if I may go on a get-off-my-lawn rant here, can we stop making new Spiderman movies? Please? In the past 15 years we've had Spiderman show up in 6 movies, and has been played my 3 different actors. It's getting to be as much of a joke as Batman. As evidenced by Wonder Woman, there are LOADS of viable superheroes to make films about. And this is coming from one of the world's biggest Spiderman fans. (Not big enough to put the hyphen in his name, but that's more because I don't want to think of it as Spidey's mom divorcing his dad, and marrying Mr. Man, and therefore having to hyphenate Spidey's name for ever more.)


----------



## TedEH

budda said:


> Also, this exists.


Not gonna lie, I have no idea what's significant about the gif.


----------



## MFB

TedEH said:


> Not gonna lie, I have no idea what's significant about the gif.



Probably the lady-boner that she's having in the first half of the gif, what with the eyes and lip biting cues, then controlling herself



Hollowway said:


> And if I may go on a get-off-my-lawn rant here, can we stop making new Spiderman movies? Please? In the past 15 years we've had Spiderman show up in 6 movies, and has been played my 3 different actors. It's getting to be as much of a joke as Batman. As evidenced by Wonder Woman, there are LOADS of viable superheroes to make films about. And this is coming from one of the world's biggest Spiderman fans. (Not big enough to put the hyphen in his name, but that's more because I don't want to think of it as Spidey's mom divorcing his dad, and marrying Mr. Man, and therefore having to hyphenate Spidey's name for ever more.)



Tom Holland is the best Spidey we've gotten to date, and I hope they continue to use him well. Maguire sucked and didn't even have the physique of Spiderman in any sense, and I don't get the massive hard-on everyone has for the Raimi films. Garfield's portrayal was closer, but the films themselves were luke-warm at best and did nothing for the franchise but really keep it active. Now Holland comes in not too far out of high school kid (like Peter), crushes it as Spiderman in Civil War and in his own solo film (because we all know it's going to do well) and can't seem to catch a break for it because of events that were in motion years before he could do anything. Hopefully it'll all shut up once these ones prove themselves to be THE Spidey films.


----------



## TedEH

MFB said:


> Probably the lady-boner that she's having


I mean, I understand that's what's happening in the gif.... but why anyone cares that's a thing goes over my head.  I mean, if you're on the receiving end of that look in person- whole other story. But none of us here are that guy, so....

I get that she's attractive and all, but I guess I just don't really care about when celebrities make googly eyes at eachother, or understand why other people care. I can't be the only person mildly weirded out by how people idolize attractive strangers over the internet.


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## MFB

Well, I loved it

They used her theme once, and I really love that theme in general, but it made its on use so much more powerful; it was the cue that "hey, Wonder Woman is here and shits gonna get fucked up by her, and she feels zero guilt about it."


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## wankerness

They definitely used it more than once in parts where she beat people up! I think it was just two extended uses of her beating people up, but it might have been three.

I LOVE that theme, it's so damn ridiculous. Plus, it's in 7/8, and I'm such a nerd I get a kick out of virtually anything in an irregular meter.  They did go to some pains to foreshadow it, with some strains of it showing up in strings in the music on the island and that kind of thing, but yeah. It still is definitely at odds with virtually everything else on the very traditional soundtrack, but it still is AWESOME.

Another, more serious note about it is that it's nice to have an actual recurring theme for a character across superhero movies. Marvel does a ton of stuff right, but their soundtracks are almost universally garbage (Captain America 1 and Doctor Strange are the exceptions) and they haven't bothered doing any memorable themes for anyone, or even carrying a theme across movies apart from the crummy "Avengers assemble" theme that I think is just in the two movies. I mean, this theme is absolutely not John Williams' Superman theme, but it still is nice seeing some attempt to have musical cohesion.


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## Explorer

Well, we saw Wonder Woman, and it was great.

I'm really not sure I watched the same movie some other folks did, because most of the soldiers had higher heels than Wonder Woman. I normally notice that kind of thing in action scenes.











MFB said:


> Tom Holland is the best Spidey we've gotten to date, and I hope they continue to use him well. Maguire sucked and didn't even have the physique of Spiderman in any sense, and I don't get the massive hard-on everyone has for the Raimi films.



Many female friends loved the Raimi movies, and it had to do with *story*. The films weren't just exposition filling in the time between fight scenes. That made the Raimi Spider-Man films the first to appeal equally to both make and female audience members.

----

It was interesting, after watching the film, to finally read through the rejected Joss Whedon script.it was *terrible*, and it both makes me happy that he didn't bring that sensibility to Wonder Woman, and sad that it will be applied to Batgirl.


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## sezna

There are so many photos and interviews where people are convinced she is into whatever guy she is with cause of that look - I think it is just how she looks. People were saying that about _Conan _when she was on. I'm pretty sure she didn't have it for Conan.

As for the movie, better than a normal superhero movie but still fell victim to excessive cheesiness. I could not get over the wonder woman outfit - it is just so ridiculous, and having it contrasted with WWII soldiers...kinda weird.


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## Lorcan Ward

wankerness said:


> Marvel does a ton of stuff right, but their soundtracks are almost universally garbage (Captain America 1 and Doctor Strange are the exceptions) and they haven't bothered doing any memorable themes for anyone, or even carrying a theme across movies apart from the crummy "Avengers assemble" theme that I think is just in the two movies.





Marvel's scores are terrible. Its baffling that they completely dropped the ball there. If you ask someone to hum a piece of music from one of their films and they won't be able to.

I got to see Hans Zimmer live last week and the Wonder Woman theme was incredible.


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## wankerness

sezna said:


> There are so many photos and interviews where people are convinced she is into whatever guy she is with cause of that look - I think it is just how she looks. People were saying that about _Conan _when she was on. I'm pretty sure she didn't have it for Conan.



Seriously. Must be the same kinds of people that think any girl at the checkout line that smiles at them is into them. It's their job to look genuinely friendly!!


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## Explorer

sezna said:


> There are so many photos and interviews where people are convinced she is into whatever guy she is with cause of that look - I think it is just how she looks. People were saying that about _Conan _when she was on. *I'm pretty sure she didn't have it for Conan.*


This was so matter of fact, I laughed.


sezna said:


> I could not get over the wonder woman outfit - it is just so ridiculous, and having it contrasted with WWII soldiers...kinda weird.


After the Batnipples and molded muscles, it'a pretty difficult to claim a superheroine costume is ridiculous. Wankerness had this topic covered pretty well already.


wankerness said:


> Regarding the costume, I get that it looks sexist in a vacuum, but at least they went to a lot of length to contextualize it. Like, they make it a logical extension from what the Amazons were wearing. And...check out what the ancient Greek MEN wore into battle:













wankerness said:


> It's really not that bad. Certainly a lot less bad than the comic/70s show outfits. The high heels thing is slightly valid, but they make it look like actual armor all the way down. It's not stilettos or jutting heels anything like that (ex, BLACK WIDOW in the Marvel universe, or practically any action lady).


And again, looking at the action shots. I posted earlier, even the Soldier has higher heels than Diana.


wankerness said:


> Seriously. Must be the same kinds of people that think any girl at the checkout line that smiles at them is into them. It's their job to look genuinely friendly!!


Yeah... some guys definitely make that unwarranted assumption.


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## sezna

Explorer said:


> After the Batnipples and molded muscles, it'a pretty difficult to claim a superheroine costume is ridiculous. Wankerness had this topic covered pretty well already.



Hey man, I'm not excusing their costumes either. I think they're all cheesy. They just lack the WWII scenery to add that extra level of ridiculousness.


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## MFB

sezna said:


> Hey man, I'm not excusing their costumes either. I think they're all cheesy. They just lack the WWII scenery to add that extra level of ridiculousness.



Lucky for them, this was WWI


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## sezna

MFB said:


> Lucky for them, this was WWI


whoops..thought it was ww2 because of the original wonder woman.


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## A-Branger

Explorer said:


> After the Batnipples and molded muscles, it'a pretty difficult to claim a superheroine costume is ridiculous. Wankerness had this topic covered pretty well already.



well they did gave her bigger boobs than what she has. Which Im not really complaining, but its funny to think its just air inside that part of the costume lol...... I think?..... I though that was the case from seeing pictures of her, but I tried to search a photo of her, and in some she looks almost like the costume, in others with less.... dunno really, boobs and how they look with clothes on vs reality, is one of those mysteries that we men are never going to solve..... And then they ask why we stare? 



Explorer said:


> And again, looking at the action shots. I posted earlier, even the Soldier has higher heels than Diana.



yes, those action shots look more decent and more like a normal shoe/boot or what it really should be. But my initial comment was because there are different shots with her using a different pair, these might be a more stunt/action set? maybe?

check the props








not that it is massive, but theres def something, enouhg for me to notice it during the movie and think "why?" but in reality.... meh!


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## wankerness

A-Branger said:


> well they did gave her bigger boobs than what she has. Which Im not really complaining, but its funny to think its just air inside that part of the costume lol...... I think?..... I though that was the case from seeing pictures of her, but I tried to search a photo of her, and in some she looks almost like the costume, in others with less.... dunno really, boobs and how they look with clothes on vs reality, is one of those mysteries that we men are never going to solve..... And then they ask why we stare?
> 
> 
> 
> yes, those action shots look more decent and more like a normal shoe/boot or what it really should be. But my initial comment was because there are different shots with her using a different pair, these might be a more stunt/action set? maybe?
> 
> check the props
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not that it is massive, but theres def something, enouhg for me to notice it during the movie and think "why?" but in reality.... meh!



Are you sure that isn't a redo for Justice League to make the costume more Snydery so they could put more upskirt shots in the trailer? The second picture obviously is from that movie.

Maybe it's the same in both, but if so, looks like maybe that's a "compressible" heel or something since it clearly as at lower angles in those pictures posted above. Who knows. Point is, at least the effect in the WW movie isn't at all that it's stripper heels.


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## Explorer

A-Branger said:


> well they did gave her bigger boobs than what she has. Which Im not really complaining, but its funny to think its just air inside that part of the costume lol...... I think?..... I though that was the case from seeing pictures of her, but I tried to search a photo of her, and in some she looks almost like the costume, in others with less.... dunno really, boobs and how they look with clothes on vs reality, is one of those mysteries that we men are never going to solve..... And then they ask why we stare?


Given that the film didn't seem to be focused on satisfying any sort of "male gaze," I'm puzzled by the idea that WW was trying to garner that kind of stare.

Are you sure you're not mistakenly talking about stuff like the upskirt shot in BvS? Or even the costume design from anything with the character Black Widow? Or even any film where Wanda/Scarlet Witch was on the side of good, and therefore had to sudenly start showing cleavage (yeah, that was a sign of her suddenly being the right kind of powerful woman)? If so, why are you attributing it to a different movie?

I'm going to bet that this nit you're attempting to pick hasn't really been mentioned here on SS.org regarding the Black Widow character. I also like that you ignored the obvious enhancement of the Flash's physique in that photo you posted from another film production, while leveling that critique at an entirely different film production of which the photo isn't representative.



A-Branger said:


> yes, those action shots look more decent and more like a normal shoe/boot or what it really should be. But my initial comment was because there are different shots with her using a different pair, these might be a more stunt/action set? maybe?
> 
> check the props










A quick image search reveals the first picture to be of props from BvS, and clearly the second is from Justice League.



A-Branger said:


> not that it is massive, but theres def something, enouhg for me to notice it during the movie and think "why?" but in reality.... meh!


I did ask a friend, who actually works in costumes, to keep an eye open for this when rewatching the film. and no such heels were noticed. This makes me wonder... is this is just an internet complaint which originated from someone looking for something to complain about without actually seeing the movie? Is this a matter of people repeating the claim without it being reflective of the reality of the film? If so, why would they do that?

Does anyone else think it's strange that so many here on SS.org might be repeating something which might not have any evidence?

This might, however, turn out to be a great illustration of the difference between male- and female-directed movies. I'll be interested to see if a lot of boy's club members on the internet leveled the same complaints against BvS, where the complaints are obviously true (with that first photo being proof), or if they will do so about the upcoming Justice League film. If they didn't and don't, that's pretty hilarious, and a great piece of evidence regarding motivations to make unfounded complaints where they don't actually apply, right?


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## A-Branger

I havent read anything on the internet, or relating anything to black widow? or the upskirt shoot? I didnt even notice (or remember) that one to be honest, donno where you got that from?. You mention costume enhancements for something (prob a different topic), which made me remember an observation about hers I didnt mention. And I did because of of training costume mostly





which couldnt get more tight fit than that. Which by default makes her chest looks "bigger" or better said more "sculpted" or more noticeable. When in shots or interviews I ahve seen her it didnt look quite that, but after searching for a picture of her in bikini, I found out she might be able to pull it off (or come close enough). Either way at least the WW costume is not that much exaggerated (or doesnt looks like), maybe its jsut the color/texture of this one


and for her boots/heels, I posted those pictures knowing they are one for BvS and the other from JL only because showing they kept her costume fairly the same accross the movies, aslo because I couldnt found a still image of full body from her WW movie (maybe its still too recent?)

But I did found these






image used for a movie poster







[youtubevid]5lGoQhFb4NM[/youtubevid]


watch at 2:10 mark for close up shot


My point didnt came from SJW forums/internet. Came from me notice that in trailers and specially on the film.

It looks like they have a couple of different boots. One for practical movement for action shots, and another for style still shots and close-ups. Which is fairly common practice in Hollywood (like a stun double). In fact I saw a snip of the behind the scenes of her running part in no-mans land scene where she was wearing normal shoes/boots under the leg armour as in that shot in particular didnt fully showed her feet.

I know its all for the screen and what not. But my point came from the "reality" point of view the DC films seems to be coming from, rather than a "comic" look. Hence why Superman suit looks like that as they tried to make it look like it was some sort of alien clothes, rather than a guy in spandex with outside underwear just beacause



puttign that topic behind, since I didnt want to go into arguing about her shoes of a metal guitar forum lol.... What ever happened to her sword?, Its there for BvS, but it gets destroyed in this film.....?


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