# Undecided between Yamaha HS7 and HS8



## the_ripper

Hello,

After a few days of investigating and searching, I nailed my monitor picking to 2 options:

-Yamaha HS7 or Yamaha HS8. 

My budget is suitable for these mostly because I don't want to spend more on these from the start(I think HS8 550 for a pair newly bought is enough), yet I want to start from the best I can. As a audio interface I use Presonus Audiobox 22VSL. I used presonus headsets monitors until now, and sounded pretty good, but yet I wanna make that upgrade. 

My room size is 5,22m x 3,36m x 2,61m in an apartment where I pay rent(so there is always the chance of unexpected changing of location ) that is and I can't decide on the dimensions of the speaker(6,5 inch or 8 inch)? I don't really intend to use a subwoofer in the future. I want to use my monitors mainly for mixing metal(mostly 7 strings, in the future 8 strings, and when my friends come at my home to record, 6 strings, drums, bass guitar, vocals, etc.). I guess since you've read "7 strings" you guessed that the music genre is heavy, and I don't intend to mix other things(shitstep, etc.).

I am also taking into consideration some minimum acoustic treatment of the room, but that comes after I get dat mada....a gear.

What do you guys say ??

PS: I'm going to the local Music Store today to listen to the both of them, but I am sure that is nothing compared to my room. The HS8 might sound better in a bigger hall(like that in the music store) than the HS7, but there is a change where HS7 will be enough for a room size like mine. I don't know.. what do you guys say? Worth spending like 160euros in advance for the HS8? (if you ask me, the difference is quite big for a 1.5 inch difference, but does it worth it?)


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## pushpull7

This is a really hard question to answer. A quick google showed a HUGE price difference between the two. 

However, YEARS ago there was pepsi "challenge" when they used to be the "80's" and the 80's reigned supreme over anything in the 1000 buck> range. By far. I'm guessing that the "8's" are similar if not better. The thing about that range of Yami's is that you'll NEVER need anything else unless you go with HS10's (the most sought after monitors in history......there is a reason they are in almost EVER studio)(if you can mix on them, you can mix on anything  ) look that up  

What I remember is that they were accurate, and unlike the HS10's, they were not "fatiguing" though they represented the 6 CD's I used with joy. (I used jeff becks "goodbye pork pie hat", Jeff Buckley "last goodbye", "Army of Anyone" (great for pumped rock), Coltrane (a love supreme), Steely Dan "Aja" (maybe a candidate for best mixed album EVER) and RATM "Battle for LA"


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## the_ripper

Hello again, I went to the store yesterday and the HS8 obviously has too much bass and less mids(I listened to them in a well-treated/isolated room). I found HS7 more equivalent on all ranges.Even in more open spaces, HS7 is more balanced than HS8, that "fattens" the sound... But there are some new candidates on the list and I'm speaking about JBL LSR 305 or LSR 308. The guy working for the local store also has experience with mixing and told me to try the JBLs as he found them more natural to the signal than the HS7s (i haven't tried the JBLs tho). I'll go in the next days to the local store again to check out the JBLs versus HS7.

I'll keep an update 



pushpull7 said:


> A quick google showed a HUGE price difference between the two



That's the idea, the difference between those two is huge and is not legitimate. For me, the HS7 should be more expensive than HS8s as they sound more balanced.


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## Drew

the_ripper said:


> Hello again, I went to the store yesterday and the HS8 obviously has too much bass and less mids(I listened to them in a well-treated/isolated room). I found HS7 more equivalent on all ranges.Even in more open spaces, HS7 is more balanced than HS8, that "fattens" the sound... But there are some new candidates on the list and I'm speaking about JBL LSR 305 or LSR 308. The guy working for the local store also has experience with mixing and told me to try the JBLs as he found them more natural to the signal than the HS7s (i haven't tried the JBLs tho). I'll go in the next days to the local store again to check out the JBLs versus HS7.
> 
> I'll keep an update
> 
> 
> 
> That's the idea, the difference between those two is huge and is not legitimate. For me, the HS7 should be more expensive than HS8s as they sound more balanced.



That surprises me. Did you adjust any of the backpanel settings?


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## TheKindred

^
this.

I use HS8's and the difference in response can be huge by tweaking the backpanel for the room it's in.


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## jerm

^would you suggest the HS8's over the HS7's

I'm going to be in the market for studio monitors also


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## Andromalia

From what I gathered, those Yams aren't actually used to mix but for control and second listening. Most studios indeed have them, but in addition to _something else_. I'm not sure they are the ideal candidates for use as standalone speakers if they are to be your only reference.


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## 7stg

The new hs series is quite different from the Ns-10 of yesterday. The Ns-10 was a hifi speaker that was rebranded as a studio monitor.

I would check the settings on the back of the monitors, they often get changed in the store. 

The Adam f7's are also worth a look.

In an apartment having the hs7's with the sub can be advantageous because when it gets late you can turn off the sub to cut the bass response and not disturb the neighbors and can use the sub when appropriate. The hs7's are better than the 5's when pairing with a sub as their low end extension allows the crossover to be set a bit lower preserving the stereo image. 8's with a sub don't benefit as much, the 7's already go low enough for the crossover. 7's often have better mids than 8's too. Also, having the sub extends lower than the 8's. 

If you don't want a sub the 8's are the best option.

Look up DIY bass traps with Owens Corning 703 4" panels.


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## Drew

Andromalia said:


> From what I gathered, those Yams aren't actually used to mix but for control and second listening. Most studios indeed have them, but in addition to _something else_. I'm not sure they are the ideal candidates for use as standalone speakers if they are to be your only reference.



Yeah, that's the NS10s you're thinking of. The HS80M's have a mid boost switch in the back that gets pretty close to that voicing, but are capable of being much flatter. 

I also didn't find them particularly bass-heavy, at ALL. I compared them to a bunch of speakers in roughly the same price range before I bought them, listening to mixes I liked and a few of my own mixes, and if anything I thought the low end was less punchy than a number of their peers (the KRK Rockit 8s were the most pronounced - very thick, tight bass, but the high end sounded flat by comparison). You can add in a low end boost if you need more low end, however, and I'm guessing the shop had the low boost engaged, figuring the "loudness curve" would help sell them vs the H7s.


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## the_ripper

Hy, I went to the store this saturday and did the great sound debate:

HS7 vs JBL LSR 305/308.

The 305 was out of discussion because of that weak bass response. In the final round HS7 vs JBL 308, I preferred the HS7, as I noticed the difference in instruments better, is more flat than the 308. You can actually hear the mistakes and be able to improve them. 

So HS7 is a yes for small-medium apartment rooms  and rich in response.



jerm said:


> ^would you suggest the HS8's over the HS7's
> 
> I'm going to be in the market for studio monitors also



I suggest you go into a music store and test. For me, HS8 was with too much bass even if the room was treated(my music store has an acoustic treated studio inside designed for these tests) even if I lowered the bass on the back panel.



TheKindred said:


> ^
> I use HS8's and the difference in response can be huge by tweaking the backpanel for the room it's in.


I agree. There is less bass. Yet, the mids and highs aren't that rich and pronunciated.



Andromalia said:


> From what I gathered, those Yams aren't actually used to mix but for control and second listening. Most studios indeed have them, but in addition to _something else_. I'm not sure they are the ideal candidates for use as standalone speakers if they are to be your only reference.



Most studios use thousand of dollars monitors as their primary mix monitors. The fact that the HSs are used as a second opinion give them somewhat weight when it comes to home-mixing.



Drew said:


> You can add in a low end boost if you need more low end, however, and I'm guessing the shop had the low boost engaged, figuring the "loudness curve" would help sell them vs the H7s.



I tested them with backpanel switches at default(void everywhere) then i tried to try different positions on bass especially on HS8. I mix metal only for pleasure purpose, and on HS8 the bass was really deep, you are not hearing it, more like "feeling" to the injury of mids(I saw the bass fattens the sound but that doesn't make it flat)

I mix in a 3x5x3 living room on a low volume level, so I found the HS7 be my best choice for my current situation.

My 2 cents,
Thank you


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## Given To Fly

Congratulations! You figured out which monitors to buy the right way. Nothing to argue about there!


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## 4Eyes

I was going to suggest to go with smaller speakers for not well treated, small room, but you found out right way on your own, good job!


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## 7stg

4Eyes said:


> I was going to suggest to go with smaller speakers for not well treated, small room


I know this sentiment is common, but at the same time it must be understood that people starting out are on a budget and get set up one thing at a time. 

So, to me, it's best to buy good monitors first and then DIY room treatment with Owens Corning 703 4" panels second. 

As opposed to, as some suggest any monitor with even the slightest bass response is gonna sound god awful terrible in an untreated room. So, never buy monitors larger than 5" till the room is treated. Once the room is treated, because the initial monitors are insufficient, it's time to sell those 5's at a substantial loss and upgrade to something that should have been purchased in the first place. Has a stereo been used in the room, and could what was being played be made out, is it good enough to get started.

That's not to say room treatment isn't important, it is. Without room treatment it's practically impossible to get a flat response throughout the room and there will be peaks and nulls in the room. If the room has a lot of hard surfaces the room will have an echo, just clap once in the room and see how the sound bounces around. With nice monitors, that niceness can only be brought out by a well treated room.

Also, there are monitors that are to big for a room. Mains in a bedroom are certainly overkill, it's like having a full stack as a bedroom practice amp. My experience is that 7's or 8's will work fine. When considering the common use of musicians who play erg, erb, and some keyboard in a bedroom I would get 7" monitors first, then room treatment, then add a sub. This will give the best quality per dollar and cover the needed range.


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## 4Eyes

I understand and totally agree with you, but I was considering this important fact also:


the_ripper said:


> My room size is 5,22m x 3,36m x 2,61m in an apartment where I pay rent(so there is always the chance of unexpected changing of location )



I would say that going with smaller speakers, and saving some money for some decent headphones which can be used for more accurate monitoring of the low end is (in his situation) smarter than going with bigger speakers - especially when that place is rented and we don't know if he can install some treatment or if he will move to some other place in the future..but that's just my opinion

he can also add sub to his setup instead of selling speakers with some loss and buying bigger speakers. there are lot of options, each has it's pros and cons. in the end it's still result that counts, knowing the setup, it's weaknesses and learning to live and work with them.


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## Drew

4Eyes said:


> I was going to suggest to go with smaller speakers for not well treated, small room, but you found out right way on your own, good job!



That's actually not something I would recommend. 

The problem with small rooms is that you tend to get a lot more phase cancellation from early reflections. The argument that you should use a smaller driver to produce less low end for a smaller, untreated room is presumably so that you don't have phase cancellation in the low end... But, simply not producing the low end in the first place doesn't help either. You go from "potentially-inaccurate-low-end" to "no low end at all," which is actually a further step back.

At the end of the day, buy whatever set of monitors you prefer, but suggesting that smaller speakers give better acoustic response in smaller untreated rooms simply isn't consistent with the physics.


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## 7stg

4Eyes said:


> I understand and totally agree with you, but I was considering this important fact also:
> 
> 
> I would say that going with smaller speakers, and saving some money for some decent headphones which can be used for more accurate monitoring of the low end is (in his situation) smarter than going with bigger speakers - especially when that place is rented and we don't know if he can install some treatment or if he will move to some other place in the future..but that's just my opinion
> 
> he can also add sub to his setup instead of selling speakers with some loss and buying bigger speakers. there are lot of options, each has it's pros and cons. in the end it's still result that counts, knowing the setup, it's weaknesses and learning to live and work with them.



I was not responding at you personally, but that general idea. There are some places on the net that will go so far as even if a person wants to do EDM/ dubStep, because they haven't got their room treated yet they suggest 5" monitors, which will not be sufficient for their needs. I see erg/erb/keyboard use as approaching EDM/ dubStep needs.


7 String Guitar - B1 - 61.735Hz
8 String Guitar - F#1 - 46.249Hz
4 String Bass - E1 - 41.203Hz
5 String Bass - B0 - 30.868Hz
Kick Drum - Produces a broad span of frequencies with very high energy between 30 and 80Hz.
Keyboard 88 key - A0 - 27.500Hz
Bass tuned to pair with an 8 string guitar - F#0 - 23.125Hz



Drew said:


> The problem with small rooms is that you tend to get a lot more phase cancellation from early reflections. The argument that you should use a smaller driver to produce less low end for a smaller, untreated room is presumably so that you don't have phase cancellation in the low end... But, simply not producing the low end in the first place doesn't help either. You go from "potentially-inaccurate-low-end" to "no low end at all," which is actually a further step back.


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## 4Eyes

guys, I agree again. but that's why I suggested to compensate the issue of not producing enough low end by smaller speakers with:



4Eyes said:


> saving some money for some decent headphones which can be used for more accurate monitoring of the low end



or 



4Eyes said:


> he can also add sub to his setup



maybe it wasn't clear enough that I wasn't speaking generally, but referring to this specific case. on the other hand - I don't think that H7s are that small that they cannot produce enough low end


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## the_ripper

4Eyes said:


> I was going to suggest to go with smaller speakers for not well treated, small room, but you found out right way on your own, good job!





7stg said:


> I know this sentiment is common, but at the same time it must be understood that people starting out are on a budget and get set up one thing at a time.
> So, to me, it's best to buy good monitors first and then DIY room treatment with Owens Corning 703 4" panels second.



The best option I found suitable from the start is to buy the monitors first then treat the room later(there's a month-two difference between these buys, so no big deal). As you know, there is a common say in Romania: buy the horse first, the cart later 

I also have to underline that I currently have some decent Presonus headphone monitors but I intend to buy some open-back AKGs K701 or Beyerdynamics DT 880.

@7stg, I took a look at those isolation panels and seems a really good offer, thanks 



7stg said:


> Also, there are monitors that are to big for a room. Mains in a bedroom are certainly overkill, it's like having a full stack as a bedroom practice amp.


That's right, sometimes too much is just not good. I like to mix mostly at low-volume because I make the difference better. The HS7s seemed to have good bass response for low-volume and high-volume also.



4Eyes said:


> I don't think that H7s are that small that they cannot produce enough low end


They do  And I found them nicely balanced.


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