# Ormsby Rc-One... any out there?



## Joan Maal (May 12, 2021)

Delivery dateswere scheduled for the end of 2020. Logically, bucause of the COVID thing, deliveries are delayed, but still can't find any information. No reviews, no pics, no NGD, no unboxing ... nothing 


I have just found a dealer who claims to have it in stock, but I think i shouldn't trust him too much.

I guess they are still to come


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## diagrammatiks (May 12, 2021)

I wonder what excuse Perry will have to use next year?


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## Xykhron (May 12, 2021)

Joan Maal said:


> Delivery dateswere scheduled for the end of 2020. Logically, bucause of the COVID thing, deliveries are delayed, but still can't find any information. No reviews, no pics, no NGD, no unboxing ... nothing
> 
> 
> I have just found a dealer who claims to have it in stock, but I think i shouldn't trust him too much.
> ...



Elant Music, maybe?


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## Joan Maal (May 12, 2021)

Xykhron said:


> Elant Music, maybe?



Efectivamente


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## Scordare (May 12, 2021)

There aren’t any out there yet..except for maybe some prototypes. The production guitars are done and currently on the way from WMI to Ormsby. Final payment forms were sent out a few weeks ago. You should start seeing these finally in the next month or two.. Can’t wait to get mine!


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## Dayn (May 12, 2021)

From the updates I've read, I think they're either done, or close to it. They were waiting on EMG to supply pickups. Then they need to get them shipped out of the factory, and securing shipping containers these days during a pandemic is a nightmare.


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## A-Branger (May 12, 2021)

guitars already finish production at Korea, same as the next run. They are currently sitting at the WMI waiting for a container (global shortage of them). There is couple of models (same with the Dino) who just got shipped directly by air so we start taking photos/promo and send it to Rusty for videos ect. But the run itself its about to get onto a ship pretty soon.

First sample photos sent from Korea were sent and posted in the FB group fi you want to see the guitars IRL


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## Joan Maal (Jun 1, 2021)

Joan Maal said:


> Efectivamente



Anyway, I shouldn't have mentioned the distributor. I have confirmed that he is a serious seller.


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## Xykhron (Jun 3, 2021)

Indeed he is. I purchased this custom Ormsby from him and everything was fine:

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-ormsby-hypemachine-7-vase.346235/


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 3, 2021)

I just got my RC One last week. The thing plays great, but it has it's issues. Was very dissapointed that Perry changed the specs on the guitar without telling anybody. When I asked he just claimed nothing changed. The original listing said 17mm neck, they changed it to 19mm and when confronted he just offered me a refund. Also the guitar is so neck heavy it is basically unplayable standing up. I want to like the guitar but the shady practices and lying left a sour taste. The ormsby facebook group is just the worst, all the ass kissing going on there is just disgusting.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 3, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I just got my RC One last week. The thing plays great, but it has it's issues. Was very dissapointed that Perry changed the specs on the guitar without telling anybody. When I asked he just claimed nothing changed. The original listing said 17mm neck, they changed it to 19mm and when confronted he just offered me a refund. Also the guitar is so neck heavy it is basically unplayable standing up. I want to like the guitar but the shady practices and lying left a sour taste. The ormsby facebook group is just the worst, all the ass kissing going on there is just disgusting.



oh classic Perry.


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## Slaeyer (Aug 3, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> oh classic Perry.


Indeed. Such a shame this hasn't changed...


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## Randy (Aug 3, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I just got my RC One last week. The thing plays great, but it has it's issues. Was very dissapointed that Perry changed the specs on the guitar without telling anybody. When I asked he just claimed nothing changed. The original listing said 17mm neck, they changed it to 19mm and when confronted he just offered me a refund. Also the guitar is so neck heavy it is basically unplayable standing up. I want to like the guitar but the shady practices and lying left a sour taste. The ormsby facebook group is just the worst, all the ass kissing going on there is just disgusting.



"Just" offered you a refund?


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## Krauthammer (Aug 3, 2021)

Thats enough to hear that I won't spend money at Ormsby. Too bad cause Ill usually get 2 guitars at once. I hope your refund goes smooth. Fuck people like that, shady customer support, changing specs on a custom. That company can just eat ass.


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## RiksRiks (Aug 3, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I just got my RC One last week. The thing plays great, but it has it's issues. Was very dissapointed that Perry changed the specs on the guitar without telling anybody. When I asked he just claimed nothing changed. The original listing said 17mm neck, they changed it to 19mm and when confronted he just offered me a refund. Also the guitar is so neck heavy it is basically unplayable standing up. I want to like the guitar but the shady practices and lying left a sour taste. The ormsby facebook group is just the worst, all the ass kissing going on there is just disgusting.



By any chance do you have a screenshot or something of the original spec? Just curious!


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## TrevorT (Aug 4, 2021)

RiksRiks said:


> By any chance do you have a screenshot or something of the original spec? Just curious!


It still says 17mm on one of the original Instagram posts: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLIJdC7BDPa/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 4, 2021)

the first run of goliaths looked nothing like the mock-ups they had in the store for months


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Aug 4, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I just got my RC One last week. The thing plays great, but it has it's issues. Was very dissapointed that Perry changed the specs on the guitar without telling anybody. When I asked he just claimed nothing changed. The original listing said 17mm neck, they changed it to 19mm and when confronted he just offered me a refund. Also the guitar is so neck heavy it is basically unplayable standing up. I want to like the guitar but the shady practices and lying left a sour taste. The ormsby facebook group is just the worst, all the ass kissing going on there is just disgusting.


Dude that sucks. I’m sorry to hear it. To me that’s counter intuitive to what I understood the purpose of it to be. Playability and ergonomics, neck dive is really uncomfortable. I sold a early 90’s Kelly Pro with sharkies and neck thru because I felt like I was always trying to just hold it up instead of being able to play relaxed. Perry’s a turd, spread the word!


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 4, 2021)

Randy said:


> "Just" offered you a refund?



Let me clarify a bit. A little back story:

The biggest selling point for me for this guitar was the 17mm neck. I remember way back many, many years ago reading a Dino Cazares interview where he said that his Ibanez LACS guitars all have a extra thin 17mm neck trough out because of his small hands or something. Well, ever since reading this I was fascinated because to my understanding, there is no production model guitar with a neck this thin ANYWHERE.

Well, when Ormsby came out with the RC One initially and I read it had the 17mm neck, I just had to pull the trigger. I even commented on a Rusty Cooley youtube vid that I once wrote on his forum has he ever tried a 17mm trough out neck (because he plays thin necks, never answer that forum question) and now you have a model coming out with a full 17mm neck I am so exited I ordered one! He commented and said thanks and you will be impressed basically. Never said actually this guitar doesnt have this thin neck its only on my full custom model.

Initially the guitar was given a 6-9 month wait if I remember correctly. Well, it turned out to be a 2 year wait. Then when the updates started coming that its finished and the container from china is coming with the guitar, I for some reason went to ormsbys own web page to check the listing again. Then I noticed the neck spec had been changed to 19mm neck.

I immediately commented on the facebook group wtf happened. No answer. Commented a little more after somebody else noticed this also and no reply from ormsby. Then I sent a facebook message directly to Ormsby and Perry answered. He said nothing has changed (tried a little jedi mindtrick here). I said no, it has changed look at the original listing and linked a few retailers pages where they sell it and it says 17mm.

Then Perry said oh its a misunderstanding, THE IMPORT has a 19mm neck, THE FULL CUSTOM has a 17mm neck and blamed it on the european retailers. Then I linked their own reverb listing where it says 17mm ( and says still, they are too lazy to correct this even though I pointed this out to him). THEN Perry said we can cancel the order and give you a refund. I said Im not cancelling the order, just want to know what happened. The only reply I got to that is that what can I say, the neck is 19mm...

You can check their own listing, it still says 17mm. Check their web page, it says 19mm. There is even a youtube video where rusty goes through the specs and doesnt point out the differences so I assume even he doesnt know they changed this.

https://reverb.com/item/30802969-ormsby-pre-order-rc-one-gtr-7-string-2020-orange-marblizer

They did the same to the Dino Cazares models --> originally listed as a 17mm neck, changed to 18,5mm. Ask Ormsby, they will tell you nothing changed...



Krauthammer said:


> Thats enough to hear that I won't spend money at Ormsby. Too bad cause Ill usually get 2 guitars at once. I hope your refund goes smooth. Fuck people like that, shady customer support, changing specs on a custom. That company can just eat ass.



Wasnt a full custom, was part of a Run they do 



RiksRiks said:


> By any chance do you have a screenshot or something of the original spec? Just curious!



Just google Ormsby RC ONE buy, all the listings read 17mm. Check Ormsbys own web page it read 19mm (they changed it).

The neck is good and plays well, very fast and the fan is subtle and very easy to get a hold of. Was very dissapointed that no explanation was ever given what happened. My speculation is that the factory couldnt pull of the extra thin neck and they made a compromise. Still funny how the Dino model has a 18,5 and not a 19mm neck.

Might seem trivial being so upset about a few millimeters on a guitar neck, but I think this shows a lot about how the company operates. If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 4, 2021)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Dude that sucks. I’m sorry to hear it. To me that’s counter intuitive to what I understood the purpose of it to be. Playability and ergonomics, neck dive is really uncomfortable. I sold a early 90’s Kelly Pro with sharkies and neck thru because I felt like I was always trying to just hold it up instead of being able to play relaxed. Perry’s a turd, spread the word!



Yeah it is beyond absurd, Rusty would NEVER play a neck heavy guitar, especially live. They did fuck up here. There are comments on their facebook group, no answer from Perry. Somebody comments that their new Ormsby is the next best thing since sliced bread and the aesthetics rival those of a Mona Lisa, Perry insta replies within the nanosecond


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## Dayn (Aug 4, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> Might seem trivial being so upset about a few millimeters on a guitar neck, but I think this shows a lot about how the company operates. If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?


I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.

If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?


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## Vyn (Aug 4, 2021)

Dayn said:


> I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.
> 
> If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?



This is where I'm at with this to be honest. Builder incorrectly lists specs, builder offers refund as a result. That's literally the best case scenario anyone can ask for.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 4, 2021)

I mean basically it's someone giving you a refund while being like 

hey you fucking idiot you want a refund you can have one you little bitch.


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 4, 2021)

Dayn said:


> I don't mean to diminish your disappointment and your right to expect what was advertised, but you were offered a complete refund for the exact reason that it wasn't as specified.
> 
> If it's 19mm and not 17mm as advertised then that's certainly a reason to give you a full refund. But if you refuse the refund, what else could you possibly expect to be done about it? What more could possibly be offered to you?





Vyn said:


> This is where I'm at with this to be honest. Builder incorrectly lists specs, builder offers refund as a result. That's literally the best case scenario anyone can ask for.



So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:

1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.

I noticed this 1 month the guitar was being sent after a almost 2 year wait. Nobody else didnt even notice this before I did. I didnt need/want a refund, just wanted to know what happened. Would have shown some character to admit they fkd up, now it just shows how massive the egos are here (and with every other luthier 4 that matter). These things leave a sour taste.

Again, the neck plays and feels great! Sitting down...

2: The biggest point is the guitar is EXTREMELY neck heavy. I wanted the thing regardless because I didnt have a fanned fret guitar before with a floyd and felt like this wouldnt be a super expensive custom to take out on a gig. Thats out the window now because it's basically playable only sitting down. There are a 100 and 1 workarounds for neck dive but c'mon, this shouldn't be an issue here. Less than idea. Already battled this once with an Ibanez Xiphos and decided it wasnt worth it. The straps should have been better located or the body heavier to have a balanced instrument.


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## Dayn (Aug 4, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:
> 
> 1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.
> 
> ...


Both issues could've been solved by accepting the refund. If you still want the guitar, that's on you. Turning a mistake over 2mm into some conspiracy and raising prospects of shady business practices when you were offered *a full refund over 2mm* is really not a hill to die on. I have a hard time imagining a man in Perth rubbing his hands together and scheming at all the savings he'll make by instructing a South Korean factory to make necks that use 2mm more material and concocting some grand scheme to lie to everyone. Especially in Australia where, if you don't get exactly what was advertised, you are entitled by law to a full refund - which you were offered. It's likely purely a mistake or a compromise, and if you want public vindication by way of someone falling on their sword, you're not going to get it. But you did have the option of walking away with all your money back.

You may not get a production run to the exact millimetre, and that's a fair criticism. You'll also be offered a full refund if it's not exactly what's ordered. The disappointment is real and it's raw - but consider what you were offered because of 2mm, and look at some of the absolute clusterfucks posted on here about people losing thousands to builders who have stolen their money. There are so many reasons why guitar builders can be shonky. Offering a full refund over 2mm isn't one of them.


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 4, 2021)

Dayn said:


> Both issues could've been solved by accepting the refund. If you still want the guitar, that's on you. Turning a mistake over 2mm into some conspiracy and raising prospects of shady business practices when you were offered *a full refund over 2mm* is really not a hill to die on. I have a hard time imagining a man in Perth rubbing his hands together and scheming at all the savings he'll make by instructing a South Korean factory to make necks that use 2mm more material and concocting some grand scheme to lie to everyone. Especially in Australia where, if you don't get exactly what was advertised, you are entitled by law to a full refund - which you were offered. It's likely purely a mistake or a compromise, and if you want public vindication by way of someone falling on their sword, you're not going to get it. But you did have the option of walking away with all your money back.
> 
> You may not get a production run to the exact millimetre, and that's a fair criticism. You'll also be offered a full refund if it's not exactly what's ordered. The disappointment is real and it's raw - but consider what you were offered because of 2mm, and look at some of the absolute clusterfucks posted on here about people losing thousands to builders who have stolen their money. There are so many reasons why guitar builders can be shonky. Offering a full refund over 2mm isn't one of them.



Just pointing out facts, no conspiracy theories here. The neck dive would have been solved by accepting a refund, please tell me how? Did the listing say it has massive neck dive? This is not a hill to die on, the thing plays great, thats it. Just dont expect to buy a shred machine ready for touring/gigs. Not complaining on the playability or craftmaship otherwise, so again, you are missing the point here. The fact that you speculate that Perry is saving money on making thicker necks is so far out there no sane person would come to that conclusion.

Just dont be suprised when stuff like this happens. The guitar plays fantastic, just pointing out that there are issues with it. Dont be suprised if you are getting one that it might not be as advertised.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 4, 2021)

don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 4, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.



yeah, the amount of blind followers this company is unbelievable. Check the facebook group, its truly special. They have endorsed artists that imo can hardly even play guitar. Again, smooth neck, no other build quality flaws (minor finishing imperfections on the back of the guitar and neck joint, very miniscule) but stuff like this needs to be called out


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## Randy (Aug 4, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> I mean basically it's someone giving you a refund while being like
> 
> hey you fucking idiot you want a refund you can have one you little bitch.



Perry Ormsby in a nutshell, yeah. I still think the pertinent item is being able to get your refund and cut ties with him.


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## TheInvisibleHand (Aug 4, 2021)

Im confused.... you ordered the guitar. You noticed it was 2mm different than originally expected. You were offered a refund and declined it. You make it a point several times that you still (apart from the neck dive) really enjoy the guitar...

So what's the problem here? You got a guitar you enjoy, but you want to warn people that they too might.....

get a guitar they enjoy?


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## Randy (Aug 4, 2021)

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Im confused.... you ordered the guitar. You noticed it was 2mm different than originally expected. You were offered a refund and declined it. You make it a point several times that you still (apart from the neck dive) really enjoy the guitar...
> 
> So what's the problem here? You got a guitar you enjoy, but you want to warn people that they too might.....
> 
> get a guitar they enjoy?



I think lost in the shuffle here somewhere is the fact Perry was dodgey about his explanations of what happened and a dickhead (as he's famously known to be), and the Ormsby fanbois were full pitchforks and torches ASIDE from the refund thing.

There's some lesson there as far as the way you can expect to be treated by Ormsby et al if your order doesn't go as expected, but yeah, at the end of the day a full refund is pretty much the gold standard for offers on a subpar purchase. Anything above and beyond that is just kinda, idk, filler?


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## Vyn (Aug 4, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> So you both missed the point I was trying to make so I will try to simplify the situation:
> 
> 1: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site, which I did out of pure intuition, this wouldnt have been noticed at all. What he could have offered was some other explanation than blame the eu retailer when their own listing said the same and still does on reverb. ALL I WANTED WAS AN EXPLANATION, WHAT HAPPENED? Instead he made me feel like an idiot and gave no explanation. Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics. Again, most people probably wont give a shit about it, but just interesting to point out. If you are not careful, they might do this to your guitar so a heads up warning.
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to have a go at you. I'm genuinely sad that you find the guitar neck heavy and that your experience dealing with Ormsby by the sounds of it was shit. However, the perspective that I was trying to add was as far as shitty situations go, being offered a full refund for a guitar and customer service that you are unhappy with is the best case scenario. More of a glass half full way of looking at it.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 4, 2021)

This is why you can’t just start cutting and modifying superstrats. If you take away parts of the body to give more fret access you can’t have a fanned fret reverse headstock without extending the rest of the body to compensate. 

Strange it wasn’t address with a prototype.


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## Zhysick (Aug 4, 2021)

Well... how could it NOT BE neck heavy? I mean, check the pics... It's OBVIOUS it's gonna neck-dive worse than an baritone ESP Viper... COME ON!

Looks sick as fck, sure, pretty cool and all that but is fking obvious is gonna be neck heavy...

I mean, I have an LTD EX and I fixed the issue but it's also pretty clear that in this Ormsby it is just impossible to fix it.


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## Dayn (Aug 4, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> Just pointing out facts, no conspiracy theories here. The neck dive would have been solved by accepting a refund, please tell me how? Did the listing say it has massive neck dive? This is not a hill to die on, the thing plays great, thats it. Just dont expect to buy a shred machine ready for touring/gigs. Not complaining on the playability or craftmaship otherwise, so again, you are missing the point here. The fact that you speculate that Perry is saving money on making thicker necks is so far out there no sane person would come to that conclusion.
> 
> Just dont be suprised when stuff like this happens. The guitar plays fantastic, just pointing out that there are issues with it. Dont be suprised if you are getting one that it might not be as advertised.


"If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?"
"Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics."

I'm just saying to keep things in perspective. You were given a refund that you were entitled to under the Australian Consumer Law over what some might say was a very minor issue, particularly on a pre-order guitar that had yet to be actually produced and was still being tweaked in development. Yet you were still offered it unconditionally, and you still enjoy the guitar.

I'd been considering the RCOne but I'm going to give it a miss, partly because of the EMG pickups, but mostly because it's an unknown quantity. Reviews of neck dive are enough to put me off of it. I'm getting a Shark in the next few weeks, though, but the preview photos are looking good.


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## Sermo Lupi (Aug 4, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This is why you can’t just start cutting and modifying superstrats. If you take away parts of the body to give more fret access you can’t have a fanned fret reverse headstock without extending the rest of the body to compensate. Strange it wasn’t address with a prototype.



I wouldn't even say it is the deeper-cut horns that caused the problem. Look how short the body is and how the lower bout has been tapered off to create a reverse offset shape that is essentially the opposite of the usual configuration (as seen on the Jackson Broderick, for example). Removing that much mass from the far end of the guitar is going to shift the balance point.

Rusty may not have noticed the neck-heaviness if the guitar balances okay standing, seeing as he only plays classical-style when seated. That, or the problem may not have been there in the prototypes and custom models.


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## jco5055 (Aug 4, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> don't fucking bother arguing with the ormsby stans.



I feel like I've heard some hot and cold stuff about Ormsby...I'll hear he's a dick (and seen the evidence here and on facebook etc), other "trustworthy" youtubers/facebook group guys seem to think Perry's cool as hell (Levi Clay being one of them), then some say that Ormsby Custom Shop/Australian stuff is absolutely top tier, while a friend of mine who goes to NAMM every year and has even worked for multiple SSO-approved companies says the Australian stuff is complete trash and the Korean models are better.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 5, 2021)

jco5055 said:


> I feel like I've heard some hot and cold stuff about Ormsby...I'll hear he's a dick (and seen the evidence here and on facebook etc), other "trustworthy" youtubers/facebook group guys seem to think Perry's cool as hell (Levi Clay being one of them), then some say that Ormsby Custom Shop/Australian stuff is absolutely top tier, while a friend of mine who goes to NAMM every year and has even worked for multiple SSO-approved companies says the Australian stuff is complete trash and the Korean models are better.



It's almost like Perry has none of the personal responsibility or consistency necessary to good businessman or a decent human being.

He builds good shit quickly for people he likes and wanks everything else all the while hiding behind the well at least you get a refund. 

Ola England built an entire guitar company in the time it took Perry to find the next excuse for why his runs are delayed.


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## Vyn (Aug 5, 2021)

In defence of Ormsby (and I'm probably going to get thrown into the Ormsby fanboi bucket if I haven't been already) - All of the runs, even the infamous Run 6 RA's have actually been built and are on the way to those who pre-ordered guys. QC issues/inconsistencies have been met with replacements or refunds, heck there's an argument to be made that the ability to get one's money back is easier than ordering something through Kiesel (there's people on this board who will happily trash Ormsby and then sing praises about Kiesel in the same sentence when both have had documented rocky customer service issues). 

So while people may find Perry abrasive/rude, if that is one's bar as to whether or not to order/deal business with the company then that's perfectly fine. Anecdotally Perry hasn't been an arsehole to me, he's been great to deal with, all 7 Ormsby GTRs I've had so far have been fantastic, the Australian built customs I've played (Both of Joe Haley's customs) have been phenomenal and based on that I'm still going to do business with Ormsby.


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 5, 2021)

You know it's super annoying when you basically have a contrary opinion you then turn into a "Stan" or a fanboy unreasonably because you disagree. *Spoiler Alert! *All Brand-Centric Groups and communities have a super high chance of being cringey and unreasonable collectives of people worshiping the company they want to feed their money to.

I see the same shit with Skervesen and other brands that are regularly delivering guitars to satisfied customers, this is coming from a guy who gave Skervesen a fair amount of shit when they had their weaker season several years back.

Objectively something was changed in the process of the build, and the buyer was offered the option to completely back out of the build. These are production instruments, he's not going to strip the neck down and sand it down to 17mm for him, much less the other guitars. He could have been a little nicer about it, but what did any of you expect/want from him over the mistake? An admission that the spec was mistyped and fell through the cracks probably would have been received well, but does it change the outcome of the situation?

It basically comes down to rhetoric being the problem when interfacing with customers and a blunt back and forth style conversation. But the dude posts container tracking information for everyone to see where in the ocean the entire run of guitars is, he's not trying to fuck anyone over and will often fix people's issues or provide whatever solution fits the situation without any major friction.


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 5, 2021)

Ok so this is getting ridiculous. I'll try to simplify this so that even the fanboys understand:

1: ORMSBY NEVER TOLD ANYBODY THEY CHANGED THE SPECS! The Dino model same thing! The only way I noticed this was pure coinsidence browsing their own webpage. Perry said they didnt change anything, lie. You check EVERY website that lists this guitar, it reads 17mm. Again, I am the only person who noticed this! Ormsby didnt feel like telling anyone.

The lesson is, buy a guitar from them, this can happen to you. No explanation provided.

2: The refund. WTF would I do with a refund??? Remember, 2 year wait, 1 month before arrival just by accident I notice this change. Nobody informed me hey, we made some changes. So, take a refund and go buy a fanned fret 7 string with 27 frets, partial scallops and a floyd from my nearest guitar store? Guess what, nobody makes them as far as production models go. So, commission another custom to be built and wait for X amount of years for it to arrive and cross my fingers this luthier will keep his word/deliver a guitar? No thanks.

They didn't change the specs to baseball bat territory. If that would have been the case, of course, immediately I would have taken the refund. 19mm is a thin neck AND IT PLAYS VERY WELL. Especially the satin finish on the back is extra smooth unlike any other guitars I played (even smoother than the USA DEAN RC7 models that I have 2 different ones). I wanted this guitar and for the most part it plays extremely well. The main issue is the neck dive, which will never be addressed by anyone at Ormsby, guaranteed. Money wasnt the issue here and I wanted the guitar. The neck dive was a total suprise to me...




Lorcan Ward said:


> This is why you can’t just start cutting and modifying superstrats. If you take away parts of the body to give more fret access you can’t have a fanned fret reverse headstock without extending the rest of the body to compensate.
> 
> Strange it wasn’t address with a prototype.



For sure it was addressed when they made the custom because I cant imagine Cooley being ok with a neck heavy guitar. The guitar weighs EXCACTLY the same amount as his Dean USA custom. The difference is in the body, its ultra light on the ormsby. The thin horns, chunk of wood taken from the back for the guitar cable, the control cavity is huge... Im guessing the full custom they make for him has a weightier tone wood and a lighter neck. 



Zhysick said:


> Well... how could it NOT BE neck heavy? I mean, check the pics... It's OBVIOUS it's gonna neck-dive worse than an baritone ESP Viper... COME ON!
> 
> Looks sick as fck, sure, pretty cool and all that but is fking obvious is gonna be neck heavy...
> 
> I mean, I have an LTD EX and I fixed the issue but it's also pretty clear that in this Ormsby it is just impossible to fix it.



Yes you are correct based on the picture alone you can determine that my god, how is that thing balanced. BUT considering that this is the artist model for the man who has been sayin all the time that quote " I spent my whole life trying to get the guitar out of my way" so that the playing is as easy and seamless as possible, is it crazy to assume there wouldnt be a neck dive? It isnt even a subtle one.



Dayn said:


> "If Perry is willing to lie about something this trivial, what else is he lying about?"
> "Again, lying about miniscule stuff like this tells a lot about somebodys morals and ethics."
> 
> I'm just saying to keep things in perspective. You were given a refund that you were entitled to under the Australian Consumer Law over what some might say was a very minor issue, particularly on a pre-order guitar that had yet to be actually produced and was still being tweaked in development. Yet you were still offered it unconditionally, and you still enjoy the guitar.
> ...



The EMG's sound great on this and the tone is actually really good! No complaint there.



Sermo Lupi said:


> I wouldn't even say it is the deeper-cut horns that caused the problem. Look how short the body is and how the lower bout has been tapered off to create a reverse offset shape that is essentially the opposite of the usual configuration (as seen on the Jackson Broderick, for example). Removing that much mass from the far end of the guitar is going to shift the balance point.
> 
> Rusty may not have noticed the neck-heaviness if the guitar balances okay standing, seeing as he only plays classical-style when seated. That, or the problem may not have been there in the prototypes and custom models.



The issue is that standing up the neck dive makes it absolutely pain to play standing up. And remember, Rusty holds his guitar standing up higher than the guys in the Beatles did so thats basically the same as sitting down and playing in the classical position (not exactly but close). He has a full custom so of course it is balanced. 



Vyn said:


> In defence of Ormsby (and I'm probably going to get thrown into the Ormsby fanboi bucket if I haven't been already) - All of the runs, even the infamous Run 6 RA's have actually been built and are on the way to those who pre-ordered guys. QC issues/inconsistencies have been met with replacements or refunds, heck there's an argument to be made that the ability to get one's money back is easier than ordering something through Kiesel (there's people on this board who will happily trash Ormsby and then sing praises about Kiesel in the same sentence when both have had documented rocky customer service issues).
> 
> So while people may find Perry abrasive/rude, if that is one's bar as to whether or not to order/deal business with the company then that's perfectly fine. Anecdotally Perry hasn't been an arsehole to me, he's been great to deal with, all 7 Ormsby GTRs I've had so far have been fantastic, the Australian built customs I've played (Both of Joe Haley's customs) have been phenomenal and based on that I'm still going to do business with Ormsby.



I love your argument here that Ormsby may be bad but they arent Kiesel bad. Like somehow that makes it ok. Joe Haley's custom guitar plays phenomenaly, big shock! Lets see how the production run comes out...



Jonathan20022 said:


> You know it's super annoying when you basically have a contrary opinion you then turn into a "Stan" or a fanboy unreasonably because you disagree. *Spoiler Alert! *All Brand-Centric Groups and communities have a super high chance of being cringey and unreasonable collectives of people worshiping the company they want to feed their money to.
> 
> I see the same shit with Skervesen and other brands that are regularly delivering guitars to satisfied customers, this is coming from a guy who gave Skervesen a fair amount of shit when they had their weaker season several years back.
> 
> ...



Yeah, you are a prime example of the fanboys Ormsby has. Thanks for proving my point.


----------



## TrevorT (Aug 5, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Objectively something was changed in the process of the build, and the buyer was offered the option to completely back out of the build. These are production instruments, he's not going to strip the neck down and sand it down to 17mm for him, much less the other guitars. He could have been a little nicer about it, but what did any of you expect/want from him over the mistake? An admission that the spec was mistyped and fell through the cracks probably would have been received well, but does it change the outcome of the situation?


The buyer in the case would not have been informed about the spec change had he not found out for himself. That in itself is a huge issue. Ormsby should have made some sort of announcement, or at least contacted those with pre-orders, that the specs had changed. Instead, they silently changed the specs on the product webpage without telling anyone after advertising the original spec for months. That announcement may not have changed the final outcome of the situation (i.e. being offered a full refund), but it certainly would have affected the customer experience, which is incredibly important when we're talking about waiting >1 year for a guitar.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 5, 2021)

^ This!

@SVMMONYR Not sure if I'll get `fanboi` tattooed on my forehead for saying this, but I only have 1 used Goliath 8-string and it's a great instrument, just did a magnet swap on the bridge pickup from A8 to C8, sounds 10 times better now, it's easily one of my top 8-stringers in my collection.

I understand it sux what happened, but at the end of the day u have a choice to make, u could accept the refund straight up, if not for the spec change, then it's for the neck dive, OR, take it to ur local luthier, maybe he/she can figure something out and minimize the neck dive without jeopardizing your chances of returning it.
In my experience, and I had this same issue in a few basses I have/had, the solutions that worked, also consider a combination, are:
1. Relocate (or install a second one) the back strap button/screw and move it higher. Costs next to nothing, and quite effective, but eliminates chances of u returning it for a refund.

2. Wheel weights in the cavity, still cheap, removable, but effectiveness varies, here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085KVL5QX/?tag=sevenstringorg-20

3. Lighter tuning machines, take one out, weigh it & compare it to, say, the Hipshot open gear non-locking (31g w/ mounting hw), here: https://hipshotproducts.com/collect.../products/classic-open-guitar-tuning-machines


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 5, 2021)

TrevorT said:


> The buyer in the case would not have been informed about the spec change had he not found out for himself. That in itself is a huge issue. Ormsby should have made some sort of announcement, or at least contacted those with pre-orders, that the specs had changed. Instead, they silently changed the specs on the product webpage without telling anyone after advertising the original spec for months. That announcement may not have changed the final outcome of the situation (i.e. being offered a full refund), but it certainly would have affected the customer experience, which is incredibly important when we're talking about waiting >1 year for a guitar.



Right, I never said it was acceptable to make changes and not inform the crowd.

I'm just saying it seems like this guy wants something more than a full refund on his build, when I guess to me that seems like a perfectly fine response to a manufacturer's mistake. I'm curious what else he wants on top of his refund, compounded interest for his total wait time? A partial refund + being allowed to keep the guitar?

A refund seems like the only apt solution considering buddy's statements are



SVMMONYR said:


> *The biggest selling point for me for this guitar was the 17mm neck.* ... *Well, when Ormsby came out with the RC One initially and I read it had the 17mm neck, I just had to pull the trigger.*



So the neck profile is extremely important, totally valid we all have preferences.



SVMMONYR said:


> 1: *THE NECK FEELS GREAT*! I have no issues with it (other than the major issue being the neck dive, my next point below), *BUT if I hadnt checked the ormsby own site*, which I did out of pure intuition, *this wouldnt have been noticed at all.*



And it's such an insignificant change in spec that *unless pointed out *he would have never even brought it up. But he's totally entitled to a refund on the basis of the spec change, and the severe neck dive in combination or just in regards to one of the problems alone.

Here's why this whole thing is problematic, and me trying to be objective about the situation and getting called a "fanboy" over it. *All of the following can apply and be true at the same time*, without all the performative hate boner tacked on top of it.

*A)* An uninformed spec change is unacceptable in any circumstance
*B)* The above can be considered an oversight and not some malicious intentional change
* -* He gave you reasoning behind it, and this being glossed over pretty hard (Custom vs Production neck spec)
*C)* Perry's blunt response isn't great at all, and certain customers can be put off by it
*D)* Deflecting blame when pointed out is again, not a great response
*E) *Being offered a full refund because of the situation is the correct outcome

If acknowledging the above makes me a fanboy, then you need a reality check homie. If you just want some kind of coping group to nod with you because you're convinced a mistake is actually a conspiracy then we definitely won't be agreeing on anything 

@Stuck_in_a_dream I actually own a Metal X that I got on reverb used, shit points straight to 8pm on a clock when sitting on a strap. It's pretty much a sitting guitar only, with how severe the neck dive is, I tried mediating it with every solution you mentioned besides relocating the strap button. You can't fit enough weights into the body cavities to make a difference in the the dive or even an offset with the lighter tuners you mentioned. It's a shame because I love the design, and it's super comfortable when sitting.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 5, 2021)

@Jonathan20022 IME, the strap button relocation is very effective, it's the only thing that worked on my old Schecter Stiletto bass, Schecter later did exactly that to fix this issue!


----------



## Scordare (Aug 5, 2021)

My RC-One 7 is scheduled to be delivered on Monday.. So I will be able to give a second opinion on this guitar. I am no Ormsbro.. this is my first one.. but I am a fan of Rusty’s incredible technique and his vision of the ultimate shred machine. I also have a Dean USA RC7G, that is absolutely badass! So I am ready to compare them.

I confirmed your neck spec change on FB, OP.. while it was kinda disappointing.. It also didn’t shock me because it seemed impossible.. like a misprint.. especially on an extra long neck 7 like this. Yeah it should’ve been properly addressed by Ormsby.. But it’s not that big of a deal to me.. I suspect that the insane 17mm spec can’t be done by WMI..only the custom shop. Probably better to deal with a spec change than 200 twisted necks in 6 months. 

My issue is..how the funk did you get your guitar a week ago and mine is coming like 2 weeks later?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 5, 2021)

Scordare said:


> ...
> My issue is..how the funk did you get your guitar a week ago and mine is coming like 2 weeks later?



Re this, when I emailed them to ask about availability of extra guitars (as I didn't order anything from run 14), they said it'll take them some time to QA test the shipments & ship to customers who already ordered. So, my guess is that QA testing takes time/man-hours, and they only ship the guitars that pass the QA testing, so it can take a week or 2.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Aug 6, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> I wouldn't even say it is the deeper-cut horns that caused the problem. Look how short the body is and how the lower bout has been tapered off to create a reverse offset shape that is essentially the opposite of the usual configuration (as seen on the Jackson Broderick, for example). Removing that much mass from the far end of the guitar is going to shift the balance point.
> 
> Rusty may not have noticed the neck-heaviness if the guitar balances okay standing, seeing as he only plays classical-style when seated. That, or the problem may not have been there in the prototypes and custom models.



I can see from the pictures now. There's so much taken away and that is a big headstock. Headless would be the only route to stop neck dive.


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## Scordare (Aug 6, 2021)

This guy doesn’t seem to be struggling with neck dive..


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## Vyn (Aug 7, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I love your argument here that Ormsby may be bad but they arent Kiesel bad. Like somehow that makes it ok. Joe Haley's custom guitar plays phenomenaly, big shock! Lets see how the production run comes out...



The point I was attempting to make which I think @Jonathan20022 made more eloquently than I did was that there are multiple brands on this board that have been shat on for xyz instances of QC/customer service issues at some point during their lifespan, some worse than others. Historically despite at times abrasive customer service, Ormsby has offered refunds 99% of the time off the bat, which as far as ordering from niche builders go, is a level of protection/safety that can't be said about other builders.



SVMMONYR said:


> 2: The refund. WTF would I do with a refund??? Remember, 2 year wait, 1 month before arrival just by accident I notice this change. Nobody informed me hey, we made some changes. So, take a refund and go buy a fanned fret 7 string with 27 frets, partial scallops and a floyd from my nearest guitar store? Guess what, nobody makes them as far as production models go. So, commission another custom to be built and wait for X amount of years for it to arrive and cross my fingers this luthier will keep his word/deliver a guitar? No thanks.



This is a shit situation, however it's 100% on you at this point. Ormsby met their obligations by offering a refund (they may have been rude/blunt about it however you were offered one, again see my previous point), you declined.


----------



## Hoss632 (Aug 7, 2021)

Scordare said:


> This guy doesn’t seem to be struggling with neck dive..



I will say this. Pics make these guitars look terrible. but seeing it IRL in this video it's actually not that bad looking.


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## Hollowway (Aug 7, 2021)

You guys are crazy.  You can’t excuse Ormsby for bad customer service just because other brands have bad customer service. 

I can tell some of you haven’t been in this situation before. It’s hard to imagine, I suspect, waiting for 2 years to get a guitar that has different specs than you were looking for. I’ve seen the same thing when people receive a guitar in the wrong color and others pile on that person for being mad or disappointed, saying, “so what, just send it back.” The fact is when your excitement has been built up to receive something, and you don’t get it, there’s a disappointment. First world problem, of course, but let’s not kid ourselves: we are buying guitars not entirely because they’re tools - it makes us feel good and we enjoy getting them and having them.

I had a similar incident years ago with a Gary Kramer R729. They had a list of specs that were cool, and I was particularly interested in a large radius on the fretboard. So I (pre)ordered it. When I got it (and it was also a WMI production run) the FB radius was 12”, which was NOT what it was supposed to be. I was particularly keyed in to that, and it was a significant reason for the build. So I asked Leo (Scala) who was the luthier in charge, and he tried to gaslight me, too. I had to show him that I still had the original specs, and this was different. But he was just dodgy about it. There were other fuckups on the guitar, so I sold it at a substantial loss. 

Anyway, I think if OP ordered a guitar specifically looking forward to the particularly unique feature of a 17mm neck, and received something different after a 2 year wait, he’s entitled to be disappointed and mad that there was no transparency from the Ormsby crew. Of course the refund being offered was good. But it still sucks that it happened.


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## Thrashman (Aug 7, 2021)

I hate being that guy but anyone and his mom can tell that guitar is going to be neck heavy like a mofo


Also how is Perry an ass if he offers you a refund for a guitar you don't enjoy playing? That's just common decency and allows you to try another example to see if it is rid of the problems you had bar the neck thickness.


Also you later wrote that the neck "FEELS GREAT!", so clearly this is a non issue for you bar an actual semantic issue over a misprint of 2mm when you also know that's an impossible neck thickness - and once again you love the neck. So what is the issue?


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 7, 2021)

Scordare said:


> This guy doesn’t seem to be struggling with neck dive..




He's using, I think, a 4-inch strap, which is more common for bass players. I even looked closer and I don't think he was using his left hand to do any lifting, so, a wide, textured non-slippery strap maybe is all what u need here. In such case, I'd guess a strap button relocation, maybe not even by much could solve this problem as well.



Hollowway said:


> ...
> Anyway, I think if OP ordered a guitar specifically looking forward to the particularly unique feature of a 17mm neck, and received something different after a 2 year wait, he’s entitled to be disappointed and mad that there was no transparency from the Ormsby crew. Of course the refund being offered was good. But it still sucks that it happened.



Under normal circumstances, I totally agree with u, but in this case the 2 yr wait was due to Covid-19, no? So it's not really Ormsby's fault, I'd only fault Ormsby for the spec change + neck dive, to which a full refund was offered, so?


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Aug 7, 2021)

So I asked the man who posted the video of himself playing the guitar on YouTube if it neck dives. Here’s his reply he says it does have noticeable neck dive, but he said he uses the widest strap possible to help the issue.


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 7, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> You guys are crazy.  You can’t excuse Ormsby for bad customer service just because other brands have bad customer service.
> 
> I can tell some of you haven’t been in this situation before. It’s hard to imagine, I suspect, waiting for 2 years to get a guitar that has different specs than you were looking for. I’ve seen the same thing when people receive a guitar in the wrong color and others pile on that person for being mad or disappointed, saying, “so what, just send it back.” The fact is when your excitement has been built up to receive something, and you don’t get it, there’s a disappointment. First world problem, of course, but let’s not kid ourselves: we are buying guitars not entirely because they’re tools - it makes us feel good and we enjoy getting them and having them.
> 
> ...



That's not the point..

I don't find gatekeeping based on wether or not you've entered the "at least this long and this excited" club as a good basis to dismiss people here. I've been waiting over 4 years for a Daemoness and even longer on a BWG that is probably never going to come to fruition. So what expectation do you have other than a refund for all cost invested towards a build? Like I said, do you want compounding interest on your total wait time?

People pile on for personal thresholds and reasons, and in that respect you're right. Joe-schmo replying to your thread about a disappointment didn't wait X amount of time for the guitar, so how could he ever know how you feel? But that's true of anything you tell anyone else, if you vent about a breakup to your buddies they can't relate to YOUR breakup, but they probably understand some feeling similar to it.

And yet again, it's not an *excuse*. Perry's rhetoric needs work, or potentially a middleman so your reply is padded with the "Thanks for being a Prime member!"-esque formalities. But AFAIK, *BAD *customer service is usually tied to non-satisfactory or non-existent outcomes IE: Never receiving a product, or being ghosted when you complain about something or seek a refund.

Good Customer Service will provide you a solution to the best of their abilities (Wrong color? Sorry about that, we have extras and can ship you a replacement in the correct finish), (The final product didn't meet your expectations? Here's a shipping label, we'll refund you once we receive it back). And they'll do it with a smile on their face and an extremely apologetic outcome.

Neutral Customer Service is where Perry falls under, he applies the above solutions but doesn't really pad your fall with his wording. He makes you whole by the end of the situation, but leaves a sour taste in your mouth if you're expecting a bubbly overly apologetic attitude.

Bad Customer Service, BRJ/ViK/Strictly 7/etc is considered bad customer service for reasons you already know. They didn't deliver, and you're in limbo, OR you got told off and you have no recourse and it's been years.

Even brands like Legator would *IMO* fall in the neutral category, because while they have a pretty high rate of failure, I don't think I've seen a single customer get denied a replacement or refund. Neutral only because of the high rate of failure, if their guitars had less defects or problems on the average they'd actually fall under Good CS.

Back to OP, he's entitled to what he expected and he has every right to be disappointed. But what solution would make him happy beyond a refund or seemingly a neck strip/sand/refinish?



Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I asked the man who posted the video of himself playing the guitar on YouTube if it neck dives. Here’s his reply he says it does have noticeable neck dive, but he said he uses the widest strap possible to help the issue.



I actually think that's a bullshit solution, the wide/leather straps don't help the situation at all. They just shift all of the force that would be driving the guitar downwards right onto your shoulder, and if you have back/shoulder pain that isn't going to feel that great. They should have made Metal X/V's and these Rusty guitars with a heavier body wood or a different design to offset the mass in the neck.


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 7, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> That's not the point..
> 
> I don't find gatekeeping based on wether or not you've entered the "at least this long and this excited" club as a good basis to dismiss people here. I've been waiting over 4 years for a Daemoness and even longer on a BWG that is probably never going to come to fruition. So what expectation do you have other than a refund for all cost invested towards a build? Like I said, do you want compounding interest on your total wait time?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I agree with all you've said. The refund is a the best possible outcome for the customer, here. My point was that we can't tell the guy he shouldn't be disappointed. I sure as hell would be disappointed, even thought I got offered a refund, because it I didn't get what I hoped for.

Another example of mine: I bought a Dell XPS 15" laptop. I had to wait 2 months for it to be delivered, due to the chip shortage. I got it, and there was something wrong with Windows, and the track pad, so it wouldn't work. I had to return it, and am now waiting for a replacement to be shipped to me. It's the best possible outcome, in that I'm getting replacement. But I'm still super bummed, and pissed that Dell STILL has track pad issues with these. And I had to wait a (relatively) long time, and then totally let down. It's just an emotional thing, not an objective measure of how my life is going, or Dell, or anything like that. My point is just that if OP was offered a reward, that doesn't mean he can't be bummed. And if he's keeping the guitar anyway, that doesn't mean he can't be bummed. And, like you say, this was a neutral customer service issue, where a "good" customer service response would have been so easy.


----------



## SVMMONYR (Aug 9, 2021)

Scordare said:


> My RC-One 7 is scheduled to be delivered on Monday.. So I will be able to give a second opinion on this guitar. I am no Ormsbro.. this is my first one.. but I am a fan of Rusty’s incredible technique and his vision of the ultimate shred machine. I also have a Dean USA RC7G, that is absolutely badass! So I am ready to compare them.
> 
> I confirmed your neck spec change on FB, OP.. while it was kinda disappointing.. It also didn’t shock me because it seemed impossible.. like a misprint.. especially on an extra long neck 7 like this. Yeah it should’ve been properly addressed by Ormsby.. But it’s not that big of a deal to me.. I suspect that the insane 17mm spec can’t be done by WMI..only the custom shop. Probably better to deal with a spec change than 200 twisted necks in 6 months.
> 
> My issue is..how the funk did you get your guitar a week ago and mine is coming like 2 weeks later?



I think I ordered the Ormsby the same day the pre-order went live and paid the full deposit. Maybe the complaints I sent them via e-mail also had an effect, dont know for sure. I have 2 Dean RC7 Usa models and had the import model Dean also at one point. I dont feel like comparing the two because they are so different built and feel wise and of course the balance thing.



Scordare said:


> This guy doesn’t seem to be struggling with neck dive..




Wow! Just by looking at a video of somebody playing you can see if somebody is struggling with neck dive? Cool story bro, guess what, the neck dive is massive and nobody at this point is denying this. One guy already sold his guitar away because of this.



Vyn said:


> The point I was attempting to make which I think @Jonathan20022 made more eloquently than I did was that there are multiple brands on this board that have been shat on for xyz instances of QC/customer service issues at some point during their lifespan, some worse than others. Historically despite at times abrasive customer service, Ormsby has offered refunds 99% of the time off the bat, which as far as ordering from niche builders go, is a level of protection/safety that can't be said about other builders.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a shit situation, however it's 100% on you at this point. Ormsby met their obligations by offering a refund (they may have been rude/blunt about it however you were offered one, again see my previous point), you declined.



Ok Ormsby is 99% better than all other luthiers because they offer refunds, GREAT! Again, didnt want a refund, the thing plays amazing apart from the neck dive. Money is no issue here, I am not crying about losing money. Jesus people just dont get it.




Hollowway said:


> You guys are crazy.  You can’t excuse Ormsby for bad customer service just because other brands have bad customer service.
> 
> I can tell some of you haven’t been in this situation before. It’s hard to imagine, I suspect, waiting for 2 years to get a guitar that has different specs than you were looking for. I’ve seen the same thing when people receive a guitar in the wrong color and others pile on that person for being mad or disappointed, saying, “so what, just send it back.” The fact is when your excitement has been built up to receive something, and you don’t get it, there’s a disappointment. First world problem, of course, but let’s not kid ourselves: we are buying guitars not entirely because they’re tools - it makes us feel good and we enjoy getting them and having them.
> 
> ...



HALLELUJAH!



Thrashman said:


> I hate being that guy but anyone and his mom can tell that guitar is going to be neck heavy like a mofo
> 
> 
> Also how is Perry an ass if he offers you a refund for a guitar you don't enjoy playing? That's just common decency and allows you to try another example to see if it is rid of the problems you had bar the neck thickness.
> ...



This is just getting insane, how hard it is to understand???

1: RC ONE and the Dino Cazares models --> specs where changed, nobody was told. When confronted, Perry said nothing changed. Am I alone in thinking this is not good customer service?

2: The thing plays and SOUNDS great APART from the neck dive, which IS NOT what was advertised AND is so bad it is UNPLAYABLE out the box standing up. Granted, if you play green day covers or some simple shit like that, it's not really a issue. For what it was intended to be built, it is unacceptable. 

The neck dive might not be an issue for everybody! Just know that this was not what was to be expected about the advertisement of the guitar.



Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I asked the man who posted the video of himself playing the guitar on YouTube if it neck dives. Here’s his reply he says it does have noticeable neck dive, but he said he uses the widest strap possible to help the issue.



There are 3 possible explanations for this

1:He is lying
2: He is a ormsby stan
3: All of the above



Jonathan20022 said:


> That's not the point..
> 
> I don't find gatekeeping based on wether or not you've entered the "at least this long and this excited" club as a good basis to dismiss people here. I've been waiting over 4 years for a Daemoness and even longer on a BWG that is probably never going to come to fruition. So what expectation do you have other than a refund for all cost invested towards a build? Like I said, do you want compounding interest on your total wait time?
> 
> ...



Good luck with your Daemoness. Waited 4 years for mine also and it had WAY WORSE issues than this Ormsby RC-One.


----------



## SVMMONYR (Aug 9, 2021)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ This!
> 
> @SVMMONYR Not sure if I'll get `fanboi` tattooed on my forehead for saying this, but I only have 1 used Goliath 8-string and it's a great instrument, just did a magnet swap on the bridge pickup from A8 to C8, sounds 10 times better now, it's easily one of my top 8-stringers in my collection.
> 
> ...



All less than ideal solutions, why couldn't they just built it as advertised? 

And Perry would NEVER admit that the neck dive is an issue. How could you get a refund for that? Try the guitar, pay a couple of hundred dollars for the DHL couriering the thing and paid import tax on it already when I got it. So end up losing something like 500 euros TO GET A REFUND??? 

I had the Ibanez Xiphos many years ago and did the whole relocating the strap pin drilling shit and it wasnt worth it. Tried the wider straps, they suck. You are seriously suggesting somebody who got a new guitar after a 2 year wait to immediately start drilling holes on the back of it and buying new tuning machines and HOPING all this works? C'mon man, you cant be serious. This is some next level trolling. There are people saying the wheel weights work, one guy said it didnt and sold his RC ONE already after 1-2 weeks of having it.

The main issue is the NECK itself weighs A LOT more than the ULTRA-LIGHT body. Even if you had bird feathers as tuning machines this would not change anything. Im guessing the neck is like 3/4 of the whole weight of the guitar, the body is that light.


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## Slaeyer (Aug 9, 2021)

I guess everyone should calm down a bit.

I made the experience that offering something and then sticking to it are two very different things. I had to had the pickups of my hype 7 GtR wax potted (right after buying the guitarl, as they were feedbacking quiet a bit. Ormsby offered to pay for it... But that was it. He started ignoring me and I never got the money for that...


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## Dayn (Aug 9, 2021)

A lot of this thread is why they're often blunt to begin with. You get offered a full refund because you're not satisfied with a pre-order guitar that had never been built before and you ordered it sight-unseen from the opposite side of the world, but you refuse the refund and continue to complain asking for things you will never get. We get it, you're disappointed, but anything after refusing the refund is entirely on you. Your expectations are, to be quite blunt, insane and unreasonable.


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 9, 2021)

Dayn said:


> A lot of this thread is why they're often blunt to begin with. You get offered a full refund because you're not satisfied with a pre-order guitar that had never been built before and you ordered it sight-unseen from the opposite side of the world, but you refuse the refund and continue to complain asking for things you will never get. We get it, you're disappointed, but anything after refusing the refund is entirely on you. Your expectations are, to be quite blunt, insane and unreasonable.



Is Perry your brother? You sound like a complete tool. We get it, Ormsby can do no wrong in your opinion. You are not alone in thinking that. As I am not alone in being critical about stuff like this. Nobody isn't going to buy/not buy this because of anything I say, just to putting this out there. Am I completely irate about the situation? Hell no, I am just laughing how comical the whole situation is and how ridiculous people are defending this shit. My expectations for this guitar to be what was advertised are insane and unreasonable??? You work for ormsby or are you endorsed by them? It sounds like you are the insane one here or you are bff with Perry.

So to sum this up, it is OK in your opinion for a luthier to lie as long as they offer a refund if they get caught lying? Granted, these are not BRJ/Kiesel level lies, but lies non the less. If I asked what happened and the answer was nothing happened that makes me insane and unreasonable? C'mon mate, like you guys say down under...

Again, wtf with the refund, nobody asked for a refund. THE GUITAR PLAYS GREAT! Am I ever going to play it standing up? No. Is it a big enough deal 4 me to get a refund? Not for me, but for somebody it might be especially if you are playing live shows and shredding a million notes per second and are thinking about buying this exact guitar with playing live in mind. One guy already sold it away. I asked Perry what happened, I didnt ask for a refund. Remember, next to nobody even knows this happened nor will they ever care for that matter and Ormsby will maybe lose 1 or 2 customers over this so basically why would they give af. In the grand scheme of things this wont stop people buying the instrument. People will tie tracktor tires to the strap to weigh the body down and drill 5 holes on the back just to experiment where the pins should be in order to eliminate the neck dive.

So for example, in my case, it was pure accident I noticed the spec change. Lets just say I noticed this after I got the guitar and wanted a refund, what would that entail? Me losing hundreds of Euros and being even more pissed off.

To sum this shit up 4 the last time, here is my review of the instrument condensed to these few points:

1: GUITAR PLAYS GREAT SITTING DOWN! Standing up, not the case. If you play simple music this may not be an issue for you.
2: THE NECK FEELS GREAT! It isnt as thin as advertised but thin and fast non the less. The satin finish on the back of it is very slick and fast, faster satin finished necks I've tried.
3: SOUNDS GREAT! The tone of the guitar is good and the EMG's sound great.
4: THE SETUP! The 100 bucks extra for the setup was a good investment, the action is low and every string every note rings perfectly. Even the highest frets are easy to play and ring out nicely. The fretwork was great, apart from a small gap within the fretboard on the 26th fret on the high E side but it isnt bad like the string gets stuck there. At least not yet.
5: BODY FINISH: the guitar looks great and the finish is good. Only a few minor imperfections on the back and on the neck joint. Very miniscule, no a really an issue.

The not so great stuff:

1: The neck dive
2: The specs changed, Ormsby told nobody and lied when confronted.

I am not crying about refunds or losing money. It's not a bad guitar. The experience left a bad taste. Was it what was advertised? Mostly yes, but the 2 things were that wasnt. Plays great and feels great, just dont be suprised about the dive. And again, Perry will NEVER admit there is neck dive on the guitar, guaranteed!


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## Hollowway (Aug 9, 2021)

Dayn said:


> A lot of this thread is why they're often blunt to begin with. You get offered a full refund because you're not satisfied with a pre-order guitar that had never been built before and you ordered it sight-unseen from the opposite side of the world, but you refuse the refund and continue to complain asking for things you will never get. We get it, you're disappointed, but anything after refusing the refund is entirely on you. Your expectations are, to be quite blunt, insane and unreasonable.


WTF, dude, he got a guitar with different specs than he ordered. That's unreasonable? I get that he didn't accept the refund, but it's a little rich to say that expecting to receive what you ordered is "insane and unreasonable." I can tell you've never had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a deal like this. FWIW, I like Ormsby, and have 3 of them, but I'd be bummed out, too. AND I would have kept the guitar, also. I know exactly what he's feeling.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 9, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> ...
> 
> I had the Ibanez Xiphos many years ago and did the whole relocating the strap pin drilling shit and it wasnt worth it. Tried the wider straps, they suck. You are seriously suggesting somebody who got a new guitar after a 2 year wait to immediately start drilling holes on the back of it and buying new tuning machines and HOPING all this works? C'mon man, you cant be serious. This is some next level trolling. There are people saying the wheel weights work, one guy said it didnt and sold his RC ONE already after 1-2 weeks of having it.
> 
> The main issue is the NECK itself weighs A LOT more than the ULTRA-LIGHT body. Even if you had bird feathers as tuning machines this would not change anything. Im guessing the neck is like 3/4 of the whole weight of the guitar, the body is that light.



I'm dead serious!  The neck dive issue is WAY more common in the bass world. Heck, some classic designs, P-bass anyone, are prone to it and it still sells like cake. I have a Sire P-bass 5-string, awesome sound, but neck-dives like a champ, so? I decided to keep it, others might disagree. 

Re typical causes of neck dive issue, well, maple necks are always gonna be heavy, the smaller body in case of RC-one could have contributed, but it may not be just the weight, could be the design as well. In the bass world, it's usually the smaller size (or complete lack) of the upper horn that is the most influential factor, so maybe in the RC-One case, they needed to exaggerate the upper horn even more given the additional carving done on the lower horn for the 27-fret access. 

Overall though, this is an example of expectation vs price-point/mass-production kind of situation imho. I'm not saying what happened was good, far from it, but it's not a horror story either, my 2 cents at least.


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## Dayn (Aug 9, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> WTF, dude, he got a guitar with different specs than he ordered. That's unreasonable? I get that he didn't accept the refund, but it's a little rich to say that expecting to receive what you ordered is "insane and unreasonable." I can tell you've never had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of a deal like this. FWIW, I like Ormsby, and have 3 of them, but I'd be bummed out, too. AND I would have kept the guitar, also. I know exactly what he's feeling.


Have a look at every other reply I've posted. In no way do I diminish his disappointment and right to expect exactly what he ordered. I've preordered things that I've been unhappy with and have refunded and have eaten the shipping cost. I _have_ been on that end. But he was *unconditionally *offered a full refund because it wasn't as exactly what was expected. If he wasn't offered what he was entitled to under our consumer law, then I'd be jumping down their throat too - but he was offered it. It's disappointing, it's frustrating, but he was offered the remedy he was entitled to and chose to keep it and continue to complain loudly about not being happy with it (but says he is happy as well?).



SVMMONYR said:


> Is Perry your brother? You sound like a complete tool. We get it, Ormsby can do no wrong in your opinion. You are not alone in thinking that. As I am not alone in being critical about stuff like this. Nobody isn't going to buy/not buy this because of anything I say, just to putting this out there. Am I completely irate about the situation? Hell no, I am just laughing how comical the whole situation is and how ridiculous people are defending this shit. My expectations for this guitar to be what was advertised are insane and unreasonable??? You work for ormsby or are you endorsed by them? It sounds like you are the insane one here or you are bff with Perry.


I don't even have one, mate. I'm still waiting for my Run 14 and I only preordered after following the group for *years* and seeing how everything panned out before risking preordering a guitar sight unseen. If you paid attention to my earlier replies, you'll note I explicitly said you are entitled to expect what was advertised, so I don't know how you missed those details. If he did any less than comply strictly with our consumer law, you can bet I'd be joining you by jumping down his throat - but you _were_ offered a full refund, exactly as you were entitled to because you didn't get what you expected. What more can be done?


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## Hollowway (Aug 9, 2021)

Dayn said:


> Have a look at every other reply I've posted. In no way do I diminish his disappointment and right to expect exactly what he ordered. I've preordered things that I've been unhappy with and have refunded and have eaten the shipping cost. I _have_ been on that end. But he was *unconditionally *offered a full refund because it wasn't as exactly what was expected. If he wasn't offered what he was entitled to under our consumer law, then I'd be jumping down their throat too - but he was offered it. It's disappointing, it's frustrating, but he was offered the remedy he was entitled to and chose to keep it and continue to complain loudly about not being happy with it (but says he is happy as well?).


Ok, yeah, I understand your point now. And, agreed - there really is no better solution at this point. 

I’m curious if anyone else has one of these. I really wanted one, but now I’m scared off by the neck dive.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 10, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> I’m curious if anyone else has one of these. I really wanted one, but now I’m scared off by the neck dive.



Like any major flaw in a guitar there are people who have neck dive on theirs and there are people who don’t know they have neck dive on theirs.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 10, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Ok, yeah, I understand your point now. And, agreed - there really is no better solution at this point.
> 
> I’m curious if anyone else has one of these. I really wanted one, *but now I’m scared off by the neck dive*.



Fear not, neck dive is commonplace in the bass world. Many renowned bass players, e.g. Hadrien Feraud, or John Patitucci, play neck-heavy basses all the time as they play heavy 5, 6 string basses. If u don't wanna mod your guitar by relocating the back strap button, u could try some elaborate & highly effective solutions like:
*
Slinger hip strap*


*Duo strap*


Still, if u don't wanna buy any new straps, check this guy out, inspired by similar idea, but much simpler, u just need 1 strap + 1 belt .


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## SVMMONYR (Aug 10, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Ok, yeah, I understand your point now. And, agreed - there really is no better solution at this point.
> 
> I’m curious if anyone else has one of these. I really wanted one, but now I’m scared off by the neck dive.



I will just say that the guitar plays great. We all know there are many work arounds to combat the neck dive. Me personally, it isn't worth the hassle and all the solutions are less than ideal but that's just my opinion. Dream guy here likes drilling holes and relocating strap placements or go shopping for the widest strap on your local guitar center. Me, not so much. 

But don't take my word, I'm insane and unreasonable.


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## Scordare (Aug 10, 2021)

I received my RC-One on Monday and have been playing the hell out of it. It DOES have neck dive due to the upper button placement..which is around the 18th fret. I am no stranger to neck dive though due to some of the ERB’s I have.. Right off the bat, you can’t use a poly strap or the Ormsby seatbelt strap I ordered with it because they slide too easily. First I tried a 2” cotton strap which helped a lot but was digging into my shoulder too much. Then switched to a 3” cotton strap and that did the trick! It holds in the right position and very comfortable. I’m not sure what is so difficult about buying a strap to make the guitar work better.. It is a killer guitar with very unique features that shreds likes no other!


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## RiksRiks (Aug 10, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> You know it's super annoying when you basically have a contrary opinion you then turn into a "Stan" or a fanboy unreasonably because you disagree. *Spoiler Alert! *All Brand-Centric Groups and communities have a super high chance of being cringey and unreasonable collectives of people worshiping the company they want to feed their money to.



Kinda off topic but Strandberg FB group is a lot like this, cringe and unreasonable to the extreme.

Also, kinda on topic, FWIW if I remember correctly they changed also the specs of the RA run, originally listed as a maple neck and now they are bubinga and Wenge (just checked the website and it even still says that)


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 11, 2021)

RiksRiks said:


> Kinda off topic but Strandberg FB group is a lot like this, cringe and unreasonable to the extreme.
> 
> Also, kinda on topic, FWIW if I remember correctly they changed also the specs of the RA run, originally listed as a maple neck and now they are bubinga and Wenge (just checked the website and it even still says that)



I believe it 

I just prefer not to be in groups I don't have any involvement in, and my online footprint pretty much consolidates down to dms with some contacts I've made over the years in the communities and SSO for general convos. I always found it weird that guitar brands attract sports tier tribalism, but you get it even in general groups where people will parrot whatever admins preach verbatim.

And yeah I'd like to see some improvement on that, they're already transparent so if it's just another talking point offering anyone who ordered a refund it'd be fine IMO.


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## Hollowway (Aug 11, 2021)

Scordare said:


> I’m not sure what is so difficult about buying a strap to make the guitar work better.. It is a killer guitar with very unique features that shreds likes no other!



It's more about buying a strap that compensates for a guitar that doesn't work correctly, IMO. For me, it's more like I bought a nice suit, had it tailored, and the pants are too big and fall down. So the salesman's solution is to sell me a tighter belt. I know I'm being a bit pissy about this, but I think basic balance should be a part of the engineering of the guitar. I get that some designs don't work, but I think it should be a conscious decision that it either does or doesn't balance.


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 11, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> It's more about buying a strap that compensates for a guitar that doesn't work correctly, IMO. For me, it's more like I bought a nice suit, had it tailored, and the pants are too big and fall down. So the salesman's solution is to sell me a tighter belt. I know I'm being a bit pissy about this, but I think basic balance should be a part of the engineering of the guitar. I get that some designs don't work, but I think it should be a conscious decision that it either does or doesn't balance.



Yeah agreed, offsetting weight and pressure onto your shoulders just to hold up a guitar is really not a good idea. I'm not familiar with manufacturing to this extent in guitars, but maybe sourcing heavier body woods would have helped my Metal X feels like it weighs 6lbs which in any other situation would probably be something impressive to talk about. A northern ash or dense mahogany could have easily helped completely eliminate this issue.


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## Hollowway (Aug 11, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yeah agreed, offsetting weight and pressure onto your shoulders just to hold up a guitar is really not a good idea. I'm not familiar with manufacturing to this extent in guitars, but maybe sourcing heavier body woods would have helped my Metal X feels like it weighs 6lbs which in any other situation would probably be something impressive to talk about. A northern ash or dense mahogany could have easily helped completely eliminate this issue.


Yeah, and I am huge on the cosmetics and visual design aspects of guitars, so it's not like I'm super pragmatic about them. But, in other fields, like sports cars, a LOT of effort goes into weight distribution, and they STILL can design badass looking cars. So I'm sure there are ways to get rid of neck dive, even without adding weight. Like you say, a super lightweight guitar would be fine to add some weight to, but then you have the Kiesel method of just adding a literal weight to the guitar to compensate, and that really seems like the tail wagging the dog. I get that Ormsby and Kiesel are the "fast fashion" of guitars, but it would still be nice to have a little more time spent in the design and engineering phase.


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## Cockandballs (Aug 28, 2021)

Just came across this site. My first time posting because this company just sucks. Worst transaction ever. Waited over two years for the RC One from this garbage company. What a joke. It was the most unbalanced top end heavy piece of garbage with severe neck dive which was so unexpected because I tried Rusty’s guitar at NAMM, the green one, and it had zero neck dive. It was great! I was impressed. Not sure what corner they cut. After receiving it, I tried returning it and they would not let me so I dumped it on Reverb. 

Also, as an FYI, the communication for these preorders are a disaster. You will have to chase them. God forbid you follow up with them, they treat you like crap. They never ever communicate. When they do communicate they use every excuse in the book too - low on staff (probably because he’s a nightmare to work for), COVID (which has been non existent in Western Australia by the way), Suez Canal, Donald Trump, Beto has blue balls, Perry has period cramps - you name it. They use it. Total sham company. I’d stay away from them with a 10 foot pool. Also, my friend ordered a custom three years ago! Three years ago and still no guitar. Working on whatever they do which sounds like they pound sand all day. I think the last excuse used was another run for another music store or something. Perry should rebrand Ormsby as Decibel guitars (think the name is for sale) and have Darren do his communication for preorders. Could not possibly be any lamer guitar company. Thanks for listening.


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## Cockandballs (Aug 28, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> And again, Perry will NEVER admit there is neck dive on the guitar, guaranteed!


He will not. I can tell you first hand. When I called him out he hung up on me. God forbid you bring it up on their ormsbro/incel group. You get kicked off.


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## Cockandballs (Aug 28, 2021)

Dayn said:


> A lot of this thread is why they're often blunt to begin with. You get offered a full refund because you're not satisfied with a pre-order guitar that had never been built before and you ordered it sight-unseen from the opposite side of the world, but you refuse the refund and continue to complain asking for things you will never get. We get it, you're disappointed, but anything after refusing the refund is entirely on you. Your expectations are, to be quite blunt, insane and unreasonable.


Not true. I tried to get a refund.


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## AxeHappy (Aug 29, 2021)

Also perhaps worth mentioning that a "full refund" from Perry isn't actually a full refund of the cost of the guitar paid. 

He still owes me 4-5 hundred dollars or something like that that I fully expect to never see after he cancelled my order because I asked for an update, after 9 weeks of radio silence when the guitars in the run were supposed to ship in a week or two.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 29, 2021)

AxeHappy said:


> Also perhaps worth mentioning that a "full refund" from Perry isn't actually a full refund of the cost of the guitar paid.
> 
> He still owes me 4-5 hundred dollars or something like that that I fully expect to never see after he cancelled my order because I asked for an update, after 9 weeks of radio silence when the guitars in the run were supposed to ship in a week or two.



I think that loose interpretations of "full refund" should be illegal, so I'm not defending any of this crap. I just wanted to mention, as someone who had 0 direct interactions w/ anyone from Ormsby, that they seem quite verbose on that FB group communicating delays and reasons behind them etc. For example, earlier on Sat., they posted explaining run 14, 15 delays from WMI. It seems Covid is up in S. Korea, so WMI facilities have been closed for 2 weeks, and will open w/ reduced personnel. There is also some shipping delays thru E. Australia for same reasons. Not sure if that could have explained the delays u had as well, but seems reasonable given the state of the pandemic worldwide.


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## Cockandballs (Aug 29, 2021)

AxeHappy said:


> Also perhaps worth mentioning that a "full refund" from Perry isn't actually a full refund of the cost of the guitar paid.
> 
> He still owes me 4-5 hundred dollars or something like that that I fully expect to never see after he cancelled my order because I asked for an update, after 9 weeks of radio silence when the guitars in the run were supposed to ship in a week or two.


You should report to the WA government. They don’t put up with that stuff here. Very pro consumer on this stuff. He’s a con artist. I’m convinced he does zero building and he has his “employees do it”. Never see any of these “backlog of customs”. It’s the same preorder nonsense. Still livid I waited got that RC One.


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## Cockandballs (Aug 29, 2021)

Yeah. That incel ormsbro group - christ it’s terrible. Go back and read every excuse on the delays. They’re endless and try calling them, emailing directly about anything. Then when you actually get the guitar you need to set it up anyway. Not to mention they just change the specs like they did on the RC1. That was not the same guitar I played at NAMM. I’d pay a small fortune for that green RC1 that was probably built by an intern or something. It’s amateur hour over there. Try writing any constructive feedback on that group, they take it down immediately. Anyway I just ordered an Aristides a few weeks back - stellar service! Great communication! And they are excited to work with with you. Plus they actually build their guitars. These guys are just chucking out bad Jackson and Standberg copies from South Korea.


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## Slaeyer (Aug 29, 2021)

I also had issues with Perry offering me to pay for the wax potting of the pickups on my hype gtr 7 (don't know the run, but was one of the first...). Guess who started to ignore me as soon as I started asking for the money (just about 40 €)...

Besides that my guitar had several cosmetic flaws but was really playing great...

I guess if I were to buy an Ormsby again, I'd get it from one of his distributors instead of having to deal with Perry...


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## CanserDYI (Aug 29, 2021)

Man, I just look at an ormsby and get turned off. Good thing they don't do anything for me because Perry sounds like an absolute nightmare.


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## AxeHappy (Aug 29, 2021)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I just wanted to mention, as someone who had 0 direct interactions w/ anyone from Ormsby, that they seem quite verbose on that FB group communicating delays and reasons behind them etc.



This was around 5-6 years ago, when Perry just happened to offer a bunch of runs around the same time he was going to be starting the GTR line. Gotta raise that capital somehow. Pretty sure all the guitars from the various runs that started around then still haven't been delivered. Very Vikish.


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## Slaeyer (Aug 29, 2021)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> . I just wanted to mention, as someone who had 0 direct interactions w/ anyone from Ormsby, that they seem quite verbose on that FB group com



If I remember correctly the guitars from the first batch of the goliath run should have been delivered in December 2016. They weren't instead there were delays with hardware and then later with cites (that stared to take effect in Jan 2017 so one month after the first batch should have been delivered to customers) I've watched that for some years and Ormsby usually blames it on others (hardware manufacturers, WMI, Cites regulations, etc.). 
So I guess I won't preorder an Ormsby...


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## Cockandballs (Aug 29, 2021)

Does Perry ever look at this forum and respond to post or does he stay in that Facebook forum in his echo chamber?


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## Hollowway (Aug 29, 2021)

Cockandballs said:


> Does Perry ever look at this forum and respond to post or does he stay in that Facebook forum in his echo chamber?


I don't recall him posting on here any time recently. He used to, but hasn't in years (unless I've missed it).

Also, does someone want to explain the refund policy? Is he not refunding initial deposits, only the balance? The only Ormsby I bought directly from him was from NAMM for the first GTR run (I've been staying away because the delivery estimates are continually off by years).


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## thrsher (Aug 29, 2021)

AxeHappy said:


> This was around 5-6 years ago, when Perry just happened to offer a bunch of runs around the same time he was going to be starting the GTR line. Gotta raise that capital somehow. Pretty sure all the guitars from the various runs that started around then still haven't been delivered. Very Vikish.



yup, i was in the 2014 and 2015 run and shit was already going down hill in the 2015 run. people were already paid up with the payment plans and no work had even begun based on the timelines established if i recall correctly. i was vocal about it here and my order was cancelled.


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## thrsher (Aug 29, 2021)

yup, i was in the 2014 and 2015run and shit was already going down hill in the 2015 run. people were already paid up with the payment plans and no work had even begun based on the timelines established if i recall correctly. i was vocal about it here and my order was cancelled. perry proceeded to talk shit about me as well is some private group, someone sent me screenshots

edit* sorry for double post, thought i was editing prior


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## Cockandballs (Aug 29, 2021)

Ormsby Guitars is literally Decibel Guitars 2.0. Ormsbros are literally the incels of the guitar world, proceed with caution


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## MrWulf (Aug 30, 2021)

Just wanna say, as someone who plays in classical position, i never ever figure out if any of my guitars have neck dive, lol


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## asopala (Aug 30, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Just wanna say, as someone who plays in classical position, i never ever figure out if any of my guitars have neck dive, lol



I play classical position as well. You gotta try standing up with it. THAT'S where you see it.


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## asopala (Aug 30, 2021)

Cockandballs said:


> Ormsby Guitars is literally Decibel Guitars 2.0. Ormsbros are literally the incels of the guitar world, proceed with caution


Man, that sucks too, cause I kinda wanted to get one of the 29 fret SX guitars... Nobody else really does that, and all the specs they listed (neck shape, stainless steel frets, etc.) all meet my preferences.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 30, 2021)

There's an RC-One on reverb right now if anyone wants to pick it up, OP.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 30, 2021)

^ There are a few, but none from US sellers though.


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## SVMMONYR (Sep 1, 2021)

Cockandballs said:


> Not true. I tried to get a refund.



Did you specifically asked for a refund based on the neck dive? For the changed specs they sure were quick to offer a full refund, which some cucks here believe is totally what fixes situations like this


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## SVMMONYR (Sep 1, 2021)

Cockandballs said:


> Yeah. That incel ormsbro group - christ it’s terrible. Go back and read every excuse on the delays. They’re endless and try calling them, emailing directly about anything. Then when you actually get the guitar you need to set it up anyway. Not to mention they just change the specs like they did on the RC1. That was not the same guitar I played at NAMM. I’d pay a small fortune for that green RC1 that was probably built by an intern or something. It’s amateur hour over there. Try writing any constructive feedback on that group, they take it down immediately. Anyway I just ordered an Aristides a few weeks back - stellar service! Great communication! And they are excited to work with with you. Plus they actually build their guitars. These guys are just chucking out bad Jackson and Standberg copies from South Korea.





Cockandballs said:


> Ormsby Guitars is literally Decibel Guitars 2.0. Ormsbros are literally the incels of the guitar world, proceed with caution



I found the whole group very weird, like when you read most of the comments there they sound like people who never even played a guitar before. Questions like can I change my strings to a 10 set will the guitar break after that. One guy wrote he couldn't justify himself to play drop A because he isnt good enough and the stupid shit goes on and on. 

Where did they find Ormsby? Did they see the episode in shark tank and got on the bandwagon? Its weird how many noobs they have on their facebook group, like how the hell did they discover the brand. The ass kissing and everything is just beyond disgusting. Ormsby has legit great players in their artist roster, I aint saying that. But then there are people who are just pure cringe.

Funny how Rusty himself isn't interested in any of this. Perry I get, he doesnt give a shit as long as the hype is strong and the pre-orders come flooding in. I found it weird also that as soon as the model came out they had other people endorsing the model, a artist model. Could you imagine say John Petrucci advertising an Ibanez Steve Vai Jem? Good on the people getting endorsed, dont get me wrong, but feels weird that the guy whose name is on the headstock isn't around to promote it but others sure are.



MrWulf said:


> Just wanna say, as someone who plays in classical position, i never ever figure out if any of my guitars have neck dive, lol



For me the guitar is still enjoyable because I personally play 99,9% of the time sitting down and in the classical position and the neck dive isn't an issue there. HOWEVER I was hoping that this would have been something to go take and play live also but that is definitely out of the question.


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## Cockandballs (Sep 1, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> Did you specifically asked for a refund based on the neck dive? For the changed specs they sure were quick to offer a full refund, which some cucks here believe is totally what fixes situations like this


I received the guitar and it was not what I expected. I was one of the few that played the prototypes at NAMM. Prototype was bangin - the green one. I know things like the nut changed (maybe that added the weight), wood combo (maybe effected the balance), etc. and it just was nothing remotely what I played or signed up for. Aside from the terrible setup, I had to redo the entire thing because it would not stay in tune and the tremolo was just not set up with the right tension. So that was a good hour for nothing. Then the scalloping was a bit rough and the frets had sharp edges. It was like playing a Dean at Guiyar Center. The “refund” policy is the privilege to pay a 20% restocking fee within 7 days plus shipping - kind of a joke. So it’s simply buyer beware. If they were that confident in their product they would have an unconditional guarantee. Smaller brands do. And thus is a production guitar with no options. So it’s not like you are returning a custom finish, left handed model or weird mod. The best part of the guitar was actually the heel design and accessibility. But if you play live it’s unplayable. I guarantee Rusty would have never signed this off. He’s pretty particular about everything and no way he’d play this live. If Perry has any balls he’d address it, explain the difference, anything. But it’s another scenario of a guy that has no clue how to play cranking out guitars


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## Cockandballs (Sep 1, 2021)

It is weird to have a signature guitar by other artist. I’ve seen that on Instagram. They don’t even give the artist a different finish. Weird. 

Yes the Facebook group is odd. I’m all for all levels of guitar players chatting. Not to sound like a hippie but music is for everyone. More people should play. Having said that the Ormsby group is just weird And the term “Ormsbro” makes me cringe. After I ordered the guitar, I wish I did not find out about that term. It’s cringe worthy. It’s like megadeth. I loved megadeth. I would listen to Dystopia and think - wow! Megadeth cane back hard! This new record will be epic! One of my friends sent the infamous David Ellefson clip (like hearing the word Ormsbro but with a visual) and I can’t listen to Megadeth ever again. Unless they redeem themselves in such a big way that I forget David Ellefson is such a jerkoff. So Ormsby needs to make a dope new Megadeth album to get me back.


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## CanserDYI (Sep 1, 2021)

God...I just watched that episode of Shark Tank with Perry on it and my god he dresses like a twat doesnt he?


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## Cockandballs (Sep 1, 2021)

yes. Yes he does. A big hairy bushy twat. Notice the sharks opted not to invest because they sensed he’d be a headache.


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## thrsher (Sep 1, 2021)

I can't find the video, someone link me.


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## Cockandballs (Sep 1, 2021)

Just search on YouTube. Shark Tank Australia Ormsby guitars. You can see the whole pitch


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Sep 1, 2021)

Cockandballs said:


> ....
> 
> It’s like megadeth. I loved megadeth. I would listen to Dystopia and think - wow! Megadeth cane back hard! This new record will be epic! One of my friends sent the infamous David Ellefson clip (like hearing the word Ormsbro but with a visual) and I can’t listen to Megadeth ever again. Unless they redeem themselves in such a big way that I forget David Ellefson is such a jerkoff. So Ormsby needs to make a dope new Megadeth album to get me back.



Not to derail, but they kicked him out of the band right there and then and last I heard Dave Mustaine said he'll never be allowed back again, so did I miss anything, what more do u think they should have done?


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## Cockandballs (Sep 2, 2021)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Not to derail, but they kicked him out of the band right there and then and last I heard Dave Mustaine said he'll never be allowed back again, so did I miss anything, what more do u think they should have done?



you clearly misses the point of the analogy. It has nothing to do with the firing, it has to do with seeing or hearing something cringeworthy in that it's so cringeworthy you can't mentally see past the issue on something. Wirth Ormsby when I hear "ormsbro welcome to the club" it's filled with such deuchbaggedness that it put me off to the brand before my guitar arrived. I thought the brand was a lot cooler before I went on that forum. I could not go on stage with an Ormsby hearing someone go "it's an Ormsbo." With Megadeth, I loved that band but once I saw the Ellefson clip, it was so humiliating and creepy, I can't listen to Megadeth without that image in my head. To rectify either station, Ormsby better make the finest and most bad ass, well balanced, polished frets, flawless book matched wood guitar that tickles my tits so much I forget my horrible experience or, in the case of Megadeth, that the new album is so phenomenal to my ears that I forget he was in the band because the bass player was shredding furious licks. That's the point.


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## Vyn (Sep 2, 2021)

AxeHappy said:


> This was around 5-6 years ago, when Perry just happened to offer a bunch of runs around the same time he was going to be starting the GTR line. Gotta raise that capital somehow. Pretty sure all the guitars from the various runs that started around then still haven't been delivered. Very Vikish.



All of those early runs did actually deliver an actual guitar to the buyer in the end. Early runs did have issues with wax-potting on the pickups.



Cockandballs said:


> Ormsby Guitars is literally Decibel Guitars 2.0. Ormsbros are literally the incels of the guitar world, proceed with caution



That's a stretch. Ormsby has at least delivered guitars, Decibel was a completely different shit show.


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## SVMMONYR (Sep 2, 2021)

I've had the guitar for a month now and have to comment about the tuning issues as well

The Perry invented locking nut system, there is definetely something wrong with it. The single screw pressing the strings doesnt exactly work like a traditional locking nut. The string goes hella sharp when you tighten the screw OR it can go flat also depending on the string, there is no consistency. For example, for Drop A I had to tune the string down to G in order for it to go to A because it makes the tuning go up a whole step on the bottom string and cant got that far with the fine tuners. On the D string nothing happens when I tighten it, and on the high B the note goes flat. Its all over the place. Also on the higher strings if you tighten it too much the string will instantly break. I have to show it to a luthier friend of mine to get his oppinion as well but for me I found out that using the Perry patent propably pending system is just broken. Thank god it has locking tuners that hold up the tuning pretty well but also with that it isnt a 100% stable tuning. 

With traditional floyd+locking nut guitars yes, the strings go sharp when you tighten the locking screws but not like this. Also can't recall ever a string going flat when tightening a locking nut. The concept is broken and basically unusable with this guitar, its just a novelty that could have been left out. Anyone had any better luck with it?


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## AxeHappy (Sep 2, 2021)

Vyn said:


> All of those early runs did actually deliver an actual guitar to the buyer in the end. Early runs did have issues with wax-potting on the pickups.



I'm referring not to the GTR runs, but rather the abundant amount of "Semi-Custom" runs that Perry did before announcing the GTR line.


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## Vyn (Sep 2, 2021)

AxeHappy said:


> I'm referring not to the GTR runs, but rather the abundant amount of "Semi-Custom" runs that Perry did before announcing the GTR line.



The semi-custom runs did get finished and delivered, at least the ones I've seen in Australia.


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## Cockandballs (Sep 2, 2021)

Vyn said:


> All of those early runs did actually deliver an actual guitar to the buyer in the end. Early runs did have issues with wax-potting on the pickups.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


eventually delivered. But delivered a pile of garbage. It’s like a sequel of bad. Hence Decibel 2.0


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## Cockandballs (Sep 2, 2021)

SVMMONYR said:


> I've had the guitar for a month now and have to comment about the tuning issues as well
> 
> The Perry invented locking nut system, there is definetely something wrong with it. The single screw pressing the strings doesnt exactly work like a traditional locking nut. The string goes hella sharp when you tighten the screw OR it can go flat also depending on the string, there is no consistency. For example, for Drop A I had to tune the string down to G in order for it to go to A because it makes the tuning go up a whole step on the bottom string and cant got that far with the fine tuners. On the D string nothing happens when I tighten it, and on the high B the note goes flat. Its all over the place. Also on the higher strings if you tighten it too much the string will instantly break. I have to show it to a luthier friend of mine to get his oppinion as well but for me I found out that using the Perry patent propably pending system is just broken. Thank god it has locking tuners that hold up the tuning pretty well but also with that it isnt a 100% stable tuning.
> 
> With traditional floyd+locking nut guitars yes, the strings go sharp when you tighten the locking screws but not like this. Also can't recall ever a string going flat when tightening a locking nut. The concept is broken and basically unusable with this guitar, its just a novelty that could have been left out. Anyone had any better luck with it?



I eventually got it to work. But it took a while to set it up. It’s horrible. Not sure what he was thinking. I used the Misha strings when I restrung because I really wanted it to work. But after I tuned it, I could not play it standing up so that’s when I called. I did not give the whammy a true test because I wanted to return it. I was worried it would break. Best part is the cutaway. That’s solid.


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## xzacx (Sep 2, 2021)

It's too bad that these are Ormsbys, and Ormsbys are what they are, because I'd be ready to throw money at a set-neck 7 with a Floyd and partially scalloped board in almost all other situations.


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## Cockandballs (Sep 2, 2021)

xzacx said:


> It's too bad that these are Ormsbys, and Ormsbys are what they are, because I'd be ready to throw money at a set-neck 7 with a Floyd and partially scalloped board in almost all other situations.


Agreed! It was supposed to be the Ibanez Universe strung out on cocaine and speed as a total shred monster. Instead, it's just a junk junkie of a crackhead guitar. No offence to crackheads.


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## nsimonsen (Oct 19, 2021)

Hate to bump this one, but didn't really wanna start a new thread.
Have seen that the new Dino models are finally turning up in retailers.

Has anyone purchased or even just tried one...?


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## JimF (Oct 29, 2021)

No, but I was seriously disappointed when the real life pictures surfaced and the shittyness of the trans finishes was revealed.


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## Giest (Nov 21, 2021)

I hate to say it but affordable and custom or semi custom more often than not don't mix well and leaves the customer with something to be desired one way or another. It's an expensive lesson all the same and I've learned myself, more than once. Seems that if you can make an instrument look good enough there will be ten thousand flies proclaiming they are top quality, and with social media these things have become status symbols more and more often than musical tools. Spec tolerances and craftsmanship are on the back burner in most of those circumstances. There are brands and models I won't buy because they aren't my style and there are brands I won't buy because they are lesser quality. Between the two I'd rather have something a millimeter or two out of my unicorn zone that sounds like a million bucks with some slight custom work on my end instead. Except Mayones, I cannot stand their specs even though the construction is in my opinion some of the best in the world.


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## Hollowway (Nov 21, 2021)

JimF said:


> No, but I was seriously disappointed when the real life pictures surfaced and the shittyness of the trans finishes was revealed.


What was going on with the finishes? I haven’t seen any irl.


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## JimF (Nov 22, 2021)

Nothing major, but I was totally in love with the purple trans finish, and when it surfaced it was way off. I know you can never match a digital render, but it seemed totally different when real 3rd party pics arrived.


Render (and the pic they sold the guitars with):








Real pics that have surfaced:












Its a total minor thing, but I was fancying one of these, and was totally disappointed when the real pics came out - imagine if I'd preordered one!


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## xzacx (Nov 22, 2021)

In fairness both of those pics are pretty shoddy—one looks really overexposed and one under. I bet it looks better IRL than either of those imply.


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## JimF (Nov 22, 2021)

Fair point. I remember seeing one on Reverb and that didn't look good either. Perhaps they look better in real life? Its a nice spec of guitar otherwise!


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## LordCashew (Nov 23, 2021)

JimF said:


> Nothing major, but I was totally in love with the purple trans finish, and when it surfaced it was way off. I know you can never match a digital render, but it seemed totally different when real 3rd party pics arrived.
> 
> 
> Render (and the pic they sold the guitars with):
> ...



NGL the “real” pics look like an Agile.


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## Hollowway (Nov 23, 2021)

That’s one of the reasons I like the Balaguer “mock-up vs reality” posts. It gives you something to hang your hat on, in terms of them making an attempt to keep the mock-ups realistic. Based on the changes to the RC-1 during production, it seems Perry means for the mock-up and initial specs to give the basic idea, but nothing really concrete. Which definitely makes preordering a bit of a gamble.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 23, 2021)

xzacx said:


> In fairness both of those pics are pretty shoddy—one looks really overexposed and one under. I bet it looks better IRL than either of those imply.



This is the case in this instance, there's a softbox probably 15 - 20ft away pointed at almost at the guitar in the 1st irl picture. Then it looks like they turned the softbox around so the light bounced off the wall away from the guitar making the 2nd shot infinitely more dim.

If you own a lamp at home just experiment with one of your guitars, you probably can't get it to look like manufacturer "photo shoot" images in any way shape or form. Ormsby's mockup has the saturation knocked up quite a bit, but that guitar looks similar enough to the mockup without a doubt. It's going to absorb some light when it's a satin finish and look flatter to a degree, but that's satin.

My photo/videography experience helps me know better when I look at pictures of gear, but people should spend some time educating themselves. Sometimes people label something like the above a malicious attempt at deceiving people, but in reality it's their own inexperience talking and not being able to recognize what is a touched up photo and what isn't.

I will say though, Ormsby's "Purr-Pull" finish improved quite a bit from the first iteration, because the first time it was put out it was a borderline pink instead. 






vs 






That would honestly probably peeve me off if I expected the shade in the first photo and received the end product. This is more of a result of the factory under-delivering on expectations, but I saw little complaint about the end result from the community. It was updated for later runs to more closely match the desired color (More of a cold violet vs a warm lavender)


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## Hollowway (Nov 23, 2021)

Off topic, but when someone on Reverb posts a picture of a guitar with an obvious filter on it, I lose my shit. It's not a selfie to make yourself look good. You're trying to accurately show what you're selling, so leave the damn filters OFF. /rant


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 23, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Off topic, but when someone on Reverb posts a picture of a guitar with an obvious filter on it, I lose my shit. It's not a selfie to make yourself look good. You're trying to accurately show what you're selling, so leave the damn filters OFF. /rant



Yeah that always grates at me, I just skip the listing more often than not. 

People bump contrast and saturation to make figured woods look better than they are.


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## Hollowway (Nov 23, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> People bump contrast and saturation to make figured woods look better than they are.


_Jeff Kiesel has entered the chat._


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## JimF (Nov 24, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> _Loads of useful info _



Very good points actually! I always try and have my realist hat on, knowing that the photographers will have picked the best possible example to photograph. Also on something with natural variation (such as figured wood), you're never going to get an identical example to the catalogue, and that's fine. 
Also, I imagine satin finishes are particularly difficult to photograph, so I get that too.




Jonathan20022 said:


> Sometimes people label something like the above a malicious attempt at deceiving people, but in reality it's their own inexperience talking and not being able to recognize what is a touched up photo and what isn't.



I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I always lean more in the direction of incompetence/lack of care rather than intentional misleading/conspiracy. Having worked in an industry that does a similar thing (i.e. digital mock ups to sell a product, then when it lands its slightly different), I get it. 
(We also had a product photographer that had zero knowledge of the products or their use. So they would photograph items upside down, or assembled incorrectly  )

If a guitar was rendered looking pale red, and hit the shelves looking burnt orange, that's an oversight. Someone f*cked up.

My issue was mainly, yes - make the guitar look as good as possible in the renders, but as long as it represents the actual colour. If it was a real photo, and it looked super edited and saturated, that's fine. They're making an actual photograph of a real object look the most appealing. But they could literally make the render any colour they wanted, and I find it hard to believe they hadn't received a colour sample for this production run to approve before creating the render that they could have referred to. 

An extreme example would be advertising a car with sped up footage of it driving through the mountains, and then when customers point out it isn't actually as fast, the manufacturer stating "well its still kinda fast".

Then again, this is all conjecture on my behalf and conversation for conversation's sake.


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## Jonathan20022 (Nov 24, 2021)

JimF said:


> Very good points actually! I always try and have my realist hat on, knowing that the photographers will have picked the best possible example to photograph. Also on something with natural variation (such as figured wood), you're never going to get an identical example to the catalogue, and that's fine.
> Also, I imagine satin finishes are particularly difficult to photograph, so I get that too.
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah materially different and functionally lacking products are real problems to address with the fault entirely on the manufacturer/seller. And it definitely wasn't aimed at anyone, just kind of a general point since I talk to a lot of people that have certain misconceptions about finishes.

That purr pull finish on the first run is materially different IMO, I would have probably returned it if I had gotten the pink blackburst guitar for sure.

You know what, I think the wildest example of accurate photography has to be Padalka. He creates digital mockups if you need it but the photos in the gallery almost always seem like renders. But they're actual pictures of the final guitar, I recenetly got one used and when looking at the gallery it surprised me how honest his photography was. Even his guitars that have incredibly saturated colors, they're represented incredibly well on his adverts and gallery.


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## A-Branger (Nov 24, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I will say though, Ormsby's "Purr-Pull" finish improved quite a bit from the first iteration, because the first time it was put out it was a borderline pink instead



yes, run6 hypes was made in a more stained finish. I was also pretty surprised on the "dullness" of the color. Future runs where made with a more of a candy color coat over. Much similar to the mockups

also, you guys need to remember, this is Korea making the painting, not us. Funny enough Goliaths in run9, futuras in run10, RCs in run11, all having the same "purrpull" finish. Yet the shade of purple is sliiighty different between them all. Even when the color requested to Korea was the same. You wont be able to notice until you put the guitars next to each others. As much as you try to control the product, at the end of the day Korea is gonna do what Korea wants to do, too many factors, from brands of paint to ratio of paint color mixing, thickness of the color transparent layer while spraying, layer of the clear coat, ect ect. And before you say "they should have send a sample", yes, they send a photo, but as discussed in this topic, its a photo. Usually they take a crapy phone pic potato lighting, then add the computer monitor, whatever white balance their phone though it was on the day. Meaning, you would never be able to notice the fact that the newest run "purrpull" has a tiiiiiny bit of "blue-ish" tint compared to the old run.



JimF said:


> I imagine satin finishes are particularly difficult to photograph, so I get that too


actually satin finishes are far eassier to take photos off. No defined reflections, and no matter what you do photos always look great  problem is, yes, satin finish kinda dulls the overall color (its like if you take bit of contrast out), but yes, taking photos of the guitars with satin finish is much eassier... But at the end of the day is to know where to position the lights to the overall effect you want to accomplish. A wrong guitar angle in relation to the camera/lights would make the whole top look washed out for satin, or make a big white square on a gloss guitar (working as a mirror so you only see the softbox). So although satin (for me) its eassier, a "bad angle" can make the light reflecting washout a way bigger area making a big "washed out" area, rather than having a small white rectangle in the corner while the rest of the guitar is fine.



JimF said:


> But they could literally make the render any colour they wanted, and I find it hard to believe they hadn't received a colour sample for this production run to approve before creating the render that they could have referred to.



no, we do not get samples sent by Korea before I make the mockups. Thats not how WMI works. They might have some samples of finishes they might do (like crackles, or sandblasted swamp ash with color grain fill.....yes, that europe only PRS SE finish, Ive seen photos of those finishes from when PErry visited the factory many years ago, but PRS marketing was like "unique finish borrowed from our private stock" or something liek that), or new stuff they can do. or new exotic veneers or other ideas, but they are not going to ship you paint samples of your ideas. THey can make whatever you want. We try to come up with cool ideas, stuff that we know they can do, then Korea does their best to match our mockups/descriptions/photo samples. At the end of the day Korea is going to do waht Korea is going to do, and thats influenced by types and brands of paints, ratio of mixing, wood (natural color of it and how ti reacts), the type/amount of application, ect ect. Even somthing as simple as the computer monitor they might be using it might not be 100% perfect color calibrated monitor for color correction film quality, then its them matching a real life thing with a digital photo. And before you say taht we can tell them the paint ratio to use. Again, a simple differnt brand of paint can make that final color be different, the amount of pearl particles used, the layers of candy paint used, the thicnkess of the clear coat, all taht have an efect on the hue/saturation of the final color. They got far more experience painting stuff, so you have to trust they do their best as much as they can

to give you an example, for the Dino blood camo. I took a photo of the original custom shop one. I draw the camo pattern and we gave them the design in a PDF vector so it can be scaled to size and not loose quality. I picked the right colors based on the photo of the custom. We even gave them the RGB code for each color...... final result is amazing, buuuuuuuut .....a tiiiiiiiiny bit off from the original RGB colors I choose. Not the end of the world, not worth a recall and rebuild, no-one is really going to noticed, prob only me because I did it and I put the two next to each others. The difference is very very very minor. But again, Korea is gonna do what Korea does. And I have seen this happen with other brands, and if you follow other brands that use same factory, you would also notice same colors, same finishes used accross the brands. A "ruby red sparkle" finish endup being a more "dark red sparkle", which then was used also for X brand too... compare the Kirk Hammet sparkle red/purple of LTD vs ESP I bet you ESP gave them exact directions on what to do, but Korea is gonna do waht Korea is gonna do, they got their limitations somewhere. 



now, as for the purple Dino









yes, the final color is a bit dull compared to the mockup, but again, im not a god with future vision. I try to make my mockups as realistic as possible, but at the end of the day they are a digital mockup, and majority of the time made with no real world sample to compare to (like in this transpurple swamp ash satin finish), but I would say to Korea that they nail the color as much as they could. And yes, that studio photo is as close to the real color as I can make it. meaning I held the guitar in my hand in front of the monitor so at least the shade of purple is on the right hue, as no matter how "perfect" I settup the white balance on the camera, you still need to "fake" the color in post, and this is more true for colors like blue/aqua/purples

also its a case of swampash + satin.... as if you see the RC models trasnpurple with flame maple + gloss the color is actually more vibrant 





but then you got stuff like the Goliath sharks with the fade finishes, I personally recon Korea fully nailed the mockup.

as for the RCBlue marbilizer, I made the mockup to reflect the custom one. so I did had a real world sample to use, if not the "top" on my mockup is straight up a copy/paste from the customRC photo, I didnt even photoshoped the marbilizer, I jsut cut/paste the photo. But final Korea result was a bit darker in hue. Again, too many factors could ahve come trough for this, shades of blue are really hard, a simple differnce in their computer monitor would mean they saw the color different, also wahtever is their process to paint and paint used, and paint color ratios ect


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## JimF (Nov 24, 2021)

That's a great insight, thank you! Also super cool of you to reply


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