# Jam Space: 2x12 or 4x12?



## Oreo_Death (Sep 14, 2014)

So I plan on getting some dudes together to play some metal. Thing is, Im still working on acquiring gear. I run a POD HD Pro right now, and I planned on picking up a cab that I could use for jamming out loud (though Ideally id like to go POD -> FoH when I do start gigging) but I dont know what I should go for. I know I've heard people tell me 2x12 suffice for live use, but 4x12s are better? If I could get away with getting a 2x12 for both practice space jamming and live play, that'd be awesome as I live in an apartment and dont have the space (yet) for a 4x12 or the ability to use it. Any thoughts/suggestions? Thanks


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## 7stg (Sep 14, 2014)

Oreo_Death said:


> (though Ideally id like to go POD -> FoH when I do start gigging)



frfr cab, 3-way bass cab, or pa so your patches sound roughly the same through your gear or the FoH.


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## Oreo_Death (Sep 14, 2014)

7stg said:


> frfr cab, 3-way bass cab, or pa so your patches sound roughly the same through your gear or the FoH.



Im still a gear noob, can someone elaborate on what each of those are? (except PA of course )


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## 7stg (Sep 14, 2014)

A FRFR (full range flat response) cab is designed to reproduce a broad frequency range fairly evenly across the range. This is a good versatile option that will support guitar and bass. They often produce a clearer, crisper, tighter sound. They will have crossovers built in that route the frequencies to the appropriate speaker. I like 3+ way designs as they usually have better mids which is critical for guitar. Getting good treble is important, some can be harsh and others are good. Some options are not really a very flat response, they have some frequencies boosted or cut which is good or bad depending on how you like it. One example is the Genz Benz 1288t-uq. They are often used with an effects box like line6. Axefx, or kemper. Settings that work with a guitar cab will need to be tweaked a bit to compensate for the broader frequency response. 

A 3-way bass cab is basically a type of FRFR cab. They are commonly used by extended range bass players that need a bass cab that can handle their upper range well. Accugroove is a high end example, and they have now tweaked/rebranded (I'm not sure how they differ, specs look the same) their bass line and come out with high end guitar FRFR cabs. AccuGroove, bass cabs, FRFR cabs, bass cabinets, guitar cabs

kneelie.com - Amplifying Extended Range Guitars


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## noUser01 (Sep 14, 2014)

A 2x12 is more than enough for jamming and live. Maybe it's just me, but I find that 4x12's are extremely inconvenient due to their size, cost, and weight. I find the negatives greatly outweigh the benefits they provide (which to me is just being able to hear yourself a bit better because the speakers are a bit higher).

Just my opinion though, obviously.


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## eyeswide (Sep 16, 2014)

A 2x12 is going to be enough in most scenarios. HOWEVER, don't make the mistake of pointing it at your knee-caps. Your ears aren't there. Either angle it up, or elevate the speaker closer to your ear when jamming with a band. This is how you avoid volume wars.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Sep 16, 2014)

I normally use a 2x12 sitting on its side for practice. Similar projection to a 4x12 and a great sound, just a bit less thump than a 4x12 that I can live without in that situation. 

I like using a 4x12 live, but a 2x12 would be more than enough for most situations.


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## coldandhomeless (Oct 5, 2014)

I used to use a 2x12, and to address the height issues... i had a roadcase the cab went in, and to play live, i would put the cab on top of the roadcase. Imho nothing beats a halfstack but its changing with the frfr axefx ect craze. If ur planning on using modeling forever, get the frfr. If not, get an amp head and cab with the open/closed back options so u can experiment. Closed back is VERY directional and tight, whereas openback is loose but the sound surrounds the space alot better. So many options its tough to make a reccomendation lol


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## McKay (Oct 13, 2014)

If you can get an angled 4x12 do that. Straight cabs mean you need to put your ear to the speaker's level to dial in tones reliably.

IMO don't get a monitor or a flat response anything. Get a proper guitar cab with good speakers. Similarly, don't rely on PA sound, it's wildly inconsistent depending on the engineer. Get a power amp, a good cab and enjoy having badass guitar tone regardless of the PA/engineer. If you have your own sound guy then go direct, otherwise don't gamble when you can get great tone from the start.


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## AliceLG (Oct 13, 2014)

I've actually considered getting a 2x12 to stack over my 4x12  The thing with the 4x12s is that they are a pain in the a$$ to move around, even inside the rehearsal room, and even though they are higher than a 2x12 they are still pointing not to your ears. That's why I've been thinking about the 2x12 on top.

Now a full stack would be crazy.


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## Grindspine (Oct 13, 2014)

You could always do a VERTICAL 2x12.







MESA Engineering 2x12 Rectifier Vertical Slant Guitar Cabinet


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## McKay (Oct 13, 2014)

Worth noting that the larger the cab, the further down the frequency spectrum the resonance will be pushed. This is a good thing.


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## Thanatopsis (Oct 14, 2014)

A decent quality 2x12 should be enough for most anything IMO. It may not sound 100% identical to the same model 4x12, but it's more than adequate. This past Friday I went to practice with this new band that I might play with and the other guitarist was running a 50w Mesa Single Rectifier into a Marshall 1936(not sure if speakers were stock or not). It sounded great and was plenty loud enough.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Nov 14, 2014)

McKay said:


> Worth noting that the larger the cab, the further down the frequency spectrum the resonance will be pushed. This is a good thing.


 
And the greater the chance of the flub no?


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 14, 2014)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> And the greater the chance of the flub no?



And probably a great chance of using a TS or OD?

...which some people are against.


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## McKay (Nov 14, 2014)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> And the greater the chance of the flub no?



Not really to be honest! Personally I love a little movement in the low end in guitar tones but by no means will an oversized cab be immediate flub.


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## ghostred7 (Nov 14, 2014)

Grindspine said:


> You could always do a VERTICAL 2x12.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This one works fine...I use it steadily and it packs plenty of power.





EDIT: Just realized that I didn't mention the speaker upgrades. I went from 300W 4x12 (Marshall 1960A) to this, which has aftermarket speakers running 400W 2x12 EVM12L-Classic


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## ben_hurt (Nov 15, 2014)

Practice spaces tend to be a chaotic with reflection and I've found a wild variety in terms of what venues want to do. I run my guitar through a bass head and bass 4x12 cab, but it can project so much bass that I turn that part of the EQ down a ton. I like the tight bass response on it, but mostly I love the gigantic head room in a tube amp. If you want to hear the bass player clearly and presently you really don't need much bass in the guitar mix, even if you're downtuned to L. I could probably do just fine with a smaller cab. 

Also, I totally agree with the others about angling - you really want the speakers up or aimed at your head. Otherwise you'll be adding to the chaos.


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## sage (Nov 15, 2014)

Personally, I use an HD500 into a Mesa 50/50 into a Mesa 4x12. I've used 2x12s, the best of which had to be the Z-Best cab. It's ported and designed to be used upright. It definitely did a decent job and I could hear myself fairly easily, but when I had the option to go back to a 4x12, I jumped on it. I play in a band with another dude with a 100 watt head and 4x12, a bassist with an Ampeg head and 4x10 cab, and a really loud drummer. I tried to get everyone to turn down, but if you can't beat 'em... 

As for the FRFR suggestion, that could definitely work for you. Especially if you're not already used to rocking a standard rig. You can also use your FRFR cab as a stage monitor. I'd never trust the venue to have proper monitoring for full on direct-to-FOH situations. I'm an odd duck in that I'd rather have the venue mic up my cab that go FOH, but I'm really happy with how much the HD500's pre-amps sound through the Mesa power and speaker combo I have going on and I don't get that same feel out of the HD500 on its own through a PA.


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## ben_hurt (Nov 17, 2014)

Vey good point by Sage, here. The drummers often dictate the volume levels. My current drummer wails on very loud cymbals, and you can't often force someone to change how they play...


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## VBCheeseGrater (Nov 17, 2014)

as others have said a good 2x12 should be good. Make sure you get a decent power amp to power it. If you have a good cab and a decent power amp, the Pod can sound very much like the real deal.

I normally use 2 1x12's for gigging and I always have tons of headroom. I recently started using a cheap ass b52 LG 4x12 cab at practice so i can leave it there and save wear and tear on my better gear (and back) - it actually sounds OK surprisingly, not nearly the drop off i expected like other low end cabs i've used. Still wouldn't recommend it though, get something you know won't let your tone down.


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