# Alternative to ESP



## wilsonho94 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey guys, im very keen of the ESP eclipse II but the price of the guitar is rather high for me and im avoiding low end guitars so whT alternate can you recommend to me ? I heard Edwards make very good copies


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## Duraesu (Jan 23, 2012)

if you are looking for a good Les Paul japanese replica, yes, Edwards and Tokai are good choices... Greco/Burny/Orville are also good replica brands, but a bit harder to find.

btw, i dont consider this a low end guitar but i recently bought a schecter solo 6 custom (NGD pending -.-) and i'm very happy with it, its not exactly a les paul shape but a cool twist on it...


cheers


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 23, 2012)

wilsonho94 said:


> Hey guys, im very keen of the ESP eclipse II but the price of the guitar is rather high for me and im avoiding low end guitars so whT alternate can you recommend to me ? I heard Edwards make very good copies



There are some good LTDS out there, if I remember correctly there is a LTD Eclipse lineup too.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jan 23, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> There are some good LTDS out there, if I remember correctly there is a LTD Eclipse lineup too.



Go for the high end LTD (deluxe) series. It's close enough to be an ESP without blowing your budget. Edwards to get even closer if you're willing to spend more. 

Tokai's are also very good.

EDIT: Also you have the PRS SE singlecuts to consider too.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 23, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Go for the high end LTD (deluxe) series. It's close enough to be an ESP without blowing your budget. Edwards to get even closer if you're willing to spend more.
> 
> Tokai's are also very good.



I 2nd the Tokais.


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## themike (Jan 23, 2012)

I would never second-guess the quality of mid-to-high range LTD's. Try one before you write it off, I dont think you'll be dissapointed


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## newmountain (Jan 23, 2012)

This is the ARZ700


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## newmountain (Jan 23, 2012)

Maybe an Ibanez ARZ700 or ARZ800?
EMG60/ 81
24 frets


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## Jake (Jan 23, 2012)

.


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## Jake (Jan 23, 2012)

ive owned 2 LTD ec-1000's now and they have both played better than my actual ESP eclipse, of course the build quality was alot better on the esp but in feel and tone wise the ltds are superior in my opinion. Also you can find them for pretty cheap on ebay or just around here


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## Mysticlamp (Jan 23, 2012)

how about an LTD?


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## Takemyevil (Jan 23, 2012)

Internet connection caused double post. Sorry


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## Takemyevil (Jan 23, 2012)

Defo look into LTDs, i own a high end LTD and its the most comfortable guitar i've ever played (that includes a JP in a shop).


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 23, 2012)

I tried one of the high-end LTD ECs and it was epic. Well worth looking into. Don't think the LTDs are automatically bad because they're not proper ESPs, they're still very good quality guitars.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 23, 2012)

I tried one of the high-end LTD ECs and it was epic. Well worth looking into. Don't think the LTDs are automatically bad because they're not proper ESPs, they're still very good quality guitars.


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## Takemyevil (Jan 23, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I tried one of the high-end LTD ECs and it was epic. Well worth looking into. Don't think the LTDs are automatically bad because they're not proper ESPs, they're still very good quality guitars.


+1


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## Tanoma (Jan 23, 2012)

Schecter makes quite a few nice guitars that look similar to the ESP Eclipse II


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## wilsonho94 (Jan 23, 2012)

But is it true that all Edwards are Made in China and final inspections are done in Japan? And are they rather higher end Ibanez ARts?


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## Djent (Jan 23, 2012)

wilsonho94 said:


> But is it true that all Edwards are Made in China and final inspections are done in Japan? And are they rather higher end Ibanez ARts?



No, they're 100% made in Japan.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 23, 2012)

Alternative to ESP?

Death.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 24, 2012)

wilsonho94 said:


> But is it true that all Edwards are Made in China and final inspections are done in Japan? And are they rather higher end Ibanez ARts?


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## guy in latvia (Jan 24, 2012)

80s and early 90s Burny Les Pauls are the way to go! You should be able to grab one sub $1000. I've heard people say they're on par with Gibson quality (especially the 80s models).


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## Dan (Jan 24, 2012)

All of the above. Go for a high end LTD, for price and feel you cant really go wrong. I'd give PRS a look at well though, ever since i got my custom 22 ive never looked back!


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## ridner (Jan 25, 2012)

nothing wrong w/ LTD. the higher end ones are pretty comparable to ESP. I just pulled the trigger on an EC-401FM in Reindeer Blue


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## Vinchester (Jan 25, 2012)

I'd recommend you check out one of the top-end Tokai Love Rocks.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 25, 2012)

I concur with LTD recommendations... I bought one of these for $600 and I have yet to have someone explain to me how the ESP version for $2k is better. A couple knowlegable friends of mine that are "guitar snobs" and not ESP fans anyways have tried to find flaws (frets, finish, etc) and were impressed with the quality and parts of a Korean made guitar. Honestly, I admit I originally bought it as a "Rambo" wall decoration for my guitar room, but fell in love with it once I played it.







And I'm a big fan of these for $800, especially if you don't want the GI JOE version above...


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## USMarine75 (Jan 25, 2012)

Poste doble...


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## engage757 (Jan 25, 2012)

wilsonho94 said:


> Hey guys, im very keen of the ESP eclipse II but the price of the guitar is rather high for me and im avoiding low end guitars so whT alternate can you recommend to me ? I heard Edwards make very good copies


 

just buy a used eclipse, but to be honest, the Ltd. EC-1000 is no slouch as a guitar. I have loved all two I have had so far, and will eventually have another I am sure. I have had three ESP eclipses, one Custom SHop Eclipse, and Two EC-1000s. Just a disclaimer.


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## bradthelegend (Jan 26, 2012)

I own 4 LTDs and I've yet to be disappointed. Three of them are around 10 years old or more, and they still play wonderfully. Personally, I don't see the need to spend more money to get the "high-end" versions when you can get something almost identical from LTD.


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## gn011625 (Apr 4, 2012)

Djent said:


> No, they're 100% made in Japan.



Actually, sorry to tell you...
Esp Standard series and Edwards are made in China and ship to Japan for final work, like soldiering and stuff...
It is true and you can find information online 
Only ESP original series, navigator and custom are 100% made in Japan


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## VBCheeseGrater (Apr 4, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> EDIT: Also you have the PRS SE singlecuts to consider too.



Agreed there - As far as overall quality for the price on mainstream guitars, the PRS SEs are about the best i've played.


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## Church2224 (Apr 4, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> Actually, sorry to tell you...
> Esp Standard series and Edwards are made in China and ship to Japan for final work, like soldiering and stuff...
> It is true and you can find information online
> Only ESP original series, navigator and custom are 100% made in Japan



Only the Edwards are made in China and shipped to Japan for the final work

The Standard Series are Made in Japan. And that is from the Forum Members are Guitars at bmusic, the ESP forum, people who have visited the factory, and is pretty much general knowledge. They are made along side the CS models, which is why they are of similar quality to one another (this is coming from a guy who owns both Original and Standard series models) I got absolutely NO idea where you thought the Standard Series were MIC...

Wikipedia

"The Standard Series ESPs are made in the ESP factory in Japan."

Also, from the ESP website...

"ESP guitars are built in our main factory and custom-shop located in Japan. These are completely built and assembled by highly skilled craftsmen using the best parts & wood selection. LTD guitars are produced in our factories outside of Japan (currently Korea, Indonesia, and China), and are manufactured in larger quantities using an assembly-line production method."

Also, here is info on the Edwards Factory 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more.html


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## Church2224 (Apr 4, 2012)

Djent said:


> No, they're 100% made in Japan.



Yeah the Edwards models are mostly MIC and are assembled and have the final inspection in Japan. There is a very informative thread at Mylespaul.com that shows it. It actually looks like an awesome facility for an MIC guitar. Not an actual ESP but still a damn good guitar. 

All ESP Standard, CS and Original Series and the Navigator line is made in the Japanese facilities they have.


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## engage757 (Apr 4, 2012)

LtD EC1000 Deluxe. Nuff said.


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## Zado (Apr 4, 2012)

Schecter SOLO,LTD EC deluxe,Edwards,mihchael kelly patriot,charvel desolation,dean throughbred deluxe and deceiver (beware medium fretz) and soltero,DBZ bolero...there are tons out there


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## pero (Apr 4, 2012)

How about FGN guitars
They are Fujigen factory in Japan own brand, and from what I saw they are cheaper than ESP.

some cool models on their site

FGN Guitars


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## engage757 (Apr 4, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> Actually, sorry to tell you...
> Esp Standard series and Edwards are made in China and ship to Japan for final work, like soldiering and stuff...
> It is true and you can find information online
> Only ESP original series, navigator and custom are 100% made in Japan




This is simply not even close to accurate.


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## engage757 (Apr 4, 2012)

pero said:


> How about FGN guitars
> They are Fujigen factory in Japan own brand, and from what I saw they are cheaper than ESP.
> 
> some cool models on their site
> ...




I can dig this!


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## Church2224 (Apr 4, 2012)

engage757 said:


> This is simply not even close to accurate.


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## gn011625 (Apr 5, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> Only the Edwards are made in China and shipped to Japan for the final work
> 
> The Standard Series are Made in Japan. And that is from the Forum Members are Guitars at bmusic, the ESP forum, people who have visited the factory, and is pretty much general knowledge. They are made along side the CS models, which is why they are of similar quality to one another (this is coming from a guy who owns both Original and Standard series models) I got absolutely NO idea where you thought the Standard Series were MIC...
> 
> ...



First at all. I own 2 standard series and 1 original series, i think there are obvious differences.

I'm not trying to argue if you are right or wrong, but I also read these information from some Chinese and Japanese forums, not only one person said standard series with SS serial number have wood cutting and paint work in China and ship to Japan for assemble the rest.
That's also why Standard series have sticker says made in Japan but original series doesn't.
Also one of my Japanese friend who owns many ESP say the same thing.
He said due to the quantity demand of standard series has inceased, ESP Japan factory can't handle it, so they have to pass it to the china factory which makes Edwards. (maybe that's why ppl think Edwards quality is similar to standard ESP?)
One more thing, the cost of guitar builders and technician's salary is one of the factors they passed the work to the other factory.

Anyway, those might be the rumors and I could be wrong.


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## Andromalia (Apr 5, 2012)

Will talk abotu it here since it seems appropriate, about talking China/Japan etc. It seems some models are indeed different between the US and europe, not counting the slight shape changes due to copyright issues etc.
For exemple, the ESP Viper standard sold in the US has a rosewood fretboard while the EU vertions has ebony. (and a case lol). Only the ESP EX and KH2 bolt on have a rosewood fretboard in europe.
They're likely still all made in Japan for all I know, but there are differences other than a cut here and there to appease Gibson and Jackson lawyers.


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## Church2224 (Apr 5, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> First at all. I own 2 standard series and 1 original series, i think there are obvious differences.
> 
> I'm not trying to argue if you are right or wrong, but I also read these information from some Chinese and Japanese forums, not only one person said standard series with SS serial number have wood cutting and paint work in China and ship to Japan for assemble the rest.
> That's also why Standard series have sticker says made in Japan but original series doesn't.
> ...



Chances are they are rumors you have heard, as many people have said that the Standard Series are MIJ, and they seem to correspond with common MIJ pricing....

Can anyone else verify this?


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## Razzy (Apr 5, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> Can anyone else verify this?



No, because it's not true.


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## Razzy (Apr 5, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> Esp Standard series and Edwards are made in China





gn011625 said:


> That's also why Standard series have sticker says made in Japan


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## Church2224 (Apr 5, 2012)

Razzy said:


> No, because it's not true.



Just checking, I am trying to verify if the Standard Series are MIJ, which I am pretty damn sure they are...


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## gn011625 (Apr 5, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> Chances are they are rumors you have heard, as many people have said that the Standard Series are MIJ, and they seem to correspond with common MIJ pricing....
> 
> Can anyone else verify this?


Like what I said, I own 2 Standard series.
I wanna believe they are 100% made in Japan actually.
But the rumors made me doubt


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## gn011625 (Apr 5, 2012)

Razzy said:


>


I guess what I've said might confused you.
From what I've heard is, Standard series ESP has some part made in China (wood cutting and paint, like Edwards) 
And they are not allowed to print "Made in Japan" on the head
Because if they do, they can't ship it back to Japan for assemble.
When they export to US they want people believe it's made in Japan so they put on a sticker.
That explains why Standard series has sticker but Original series doesn't, and why Standard series are not available in Japan.

The other series, like custom or original (serial number starts with K, CH, or T..etc...) are truely made in Japan, so they don't even bother to have the sticker.

This is what I've heard from not only one people say that, it might be wrong and I hope it's not true since I do have 2 Standard ESP.


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## Church2224 (Apr 5, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> I guess what I've said might confused you.
> From what I've heard is, Standard series ESP has some part made in China (wood cutting and paint, like Edwards)
> And they are not allowed to print "Made in Japan" on the head
> Because if they do, they can't ship it back to Japan for assemble.
> ...




I called Zimbloth (an ESP dealer here) about an order today, and I asked him in order to confirm it. He confirmed that anything that has "ESP" on the headstock is truly Made in Japan and that the Standard Series are in fact made along side the MIJ Custom Shop guitars. He actually kind of 'd at the idea that the Standard Series were not MIJ. Also because ESP advertises that the Standard Series is Made in Japan do their Dealers and Customers, they would be violated a lot of local, national, and international trade laws by doing so. So why would a company put themselves through that kind of trouble and still advertise them as MIJ? 

Also seeing how the Rasmus line by Suhr are made in an almost identical way that the Standard Series would be made IF they were MIC, They prices would be similar, if not less. So the Standard series would be around 1 grand, instead of the 1,500-2,500 USD they go for now, if they were MIC. 

So yeah, they are wrong. And you can enjoy two awesome MIJ ESP guitars 

Also I am going to me local dealer tomorrow and I will be talking to them about it. 

Also Max of Metal confirmed it, so you know it is true. 

If that is not enough to convince you, then I have nothing else to tell you.


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## gn011625 (Apr 5, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> I called Zimbloth (an ESP dealer here) about an order today, and I asked him in order to confirm it. He confirmed that anything that has "ESP" on the headstock is truly Made in Japan and that the Standard Series are in fact made along side the MIJ Custom Shop guitars. He actually kind of 'd at the idea that the Standard Series were not MIJ. Also because ESP advertises that the Standard Series is Made in Japan do their Dealers and Customers, they would be violated a lot of local, national, and international trade laws by doing so. So why would a company put themselves through that kind of trouble and still advertise them as MIJ?
> 
> Also seeing how the Rasmus line by Suhr are made in an almost identical way that the Standard Series would be made IF they were MIC, They prices would be similar, if not less. So the Standard series would be around 1 grand, instead of the 1,500-2,500 USD they go for now, if they were MIC.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, I've said that I'm not trying to argue with you to prove you are wrong or what, just because the rumors made me worry and people who i talked to and trust made me believe that rumor.

Anyway, glad to know my ESP guitars are made in Japan, because some how I'm kinda against to China made guitar...lol


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## Church2224 (Apr 5, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> Don't worry, I've said that I'm not trying to argue with you to prove you are wrong or what, just because the rumors made me worry and people who i talked to and trust made me believe that rumor.
> 
> Anyway, glad to know my ESP guitars are made in Japan, because some how I'm kinda against to China made guitar...lol



Yeah that is the problem with the internet, any one can say anything despite what it is. Don;t believe the rumors, some of these bad rumors start out with no logic behind them at all. 

Always question the source. I am not a fan of most MIC Guitars either. Enjoy the your Japanese Made ESPs


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## gn011625 (Apr 5, 2012)

Church2224 said:


> Yeah that is the problem with the internet, any one can say anything despite what it is. Don;t believe the rumors, some of these bad rumors start out with no logic behind them at all.
> 
> Always question the source. I am not a fan of most MIC Guitars either. Enjoy the your Japanese Made ESPs


Maybe I should find some time to take some pictures and post it on the ESP Owner Club thread later


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## Church2224 (Apr 5, 2012)

gn011625 said:


> Maybe I should find some time to take some pictures and post it on the ESP Owner Club thread later



That would be awesome!


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## chipsta21 (Apr 6, 2012)

ibanez arz's are awesome!!!


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## fassaction (Apr 9, 2012)

717ctsjz said:


> ive owned 2 LTD ec-1000's now and they have both played better than my actual ESP eclipse, of course the build quality was alot better on the esp but in feel and tone wise the ltds are superior in my opinion. Also you can find them for pretty cheap on ebay or just around here



My EC-1000 is probably the best playing guitar I have ever owned....I love that guitar. I like the balance, the feel, the neck, and I am glad i picked up the model with the Duncans instead of the EMGs. the jb/59 combo is a nice change from active pickups.


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## Xiphos68 (Apr 9, 2012)

If this man plays them and the way he makes this LTD sound, it's well worth checking out.

Personally, I think they are some great LTD Les Paul copies, my Dad has one and it's even a lower model than this one, and it shreds!


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## Subversion (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi. I am from Istanbul. I bought an esp (standart series) horizon fr ii with emg pick ups from New York. It has a "made in Japan" sticker on it. I talked to my local dealer here in Istanbul and he said that my guitar is usa made. I am surprised. As far as i know the guitar is totaly made in Japan. So i am confused. Is there two different horizon fr ii with usa and japan made? Are any of esp standart series made in Usa?I searched the web see that ,my guitar is an export model that is sold all around World except Japan and is not specially designed for or in usa,right? I am a little bit worried because he said japan made esps are beter than usa made.


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## Metlupass2 (Nov 17, 2013)

There aren't any ESP guitars currently made in the US since they shut down their Hollywood shop years ago. They are however opening up a US facility next year though. 

He might have meant US model because we don't get all the cool ESPs here in the states as the rest of the world unfortunately.


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## Sicarius (Nov 17, 2013)

Subversion said:


> Hi. I am from Istanbul. I bought an esp (standart series) horizon fr ii with emg pick ups from New York. It has a "made in Japan" sticker on it. I talked to my local dealer here in Istanbul and he said that my guitar is usa made. I am surprised. As far as i know the guitar is totaly made in Japan. So i am confused. Is there two different horizon fr ii with usa and japan made? Are any of esp standart series made in Usa?I searched the web see that ,my guitar is an export model that is sold all around World except Japan and is not specially designed for or in usa,right? I am a little bit worried because he said japan made esps are beter than usa made.



It's MIJ, man. You just have the US model instead of the Export model that you would have received had you bought it there in Turkey. 

Specs are probably slightly different, but it's still a MIJ.


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## Samark (Nov 18, 2013)

Keep your eye out for a second hand ESP, they blow any LTD out of the water!

Don't settle for a guitar that you will sell in a year and lose money on


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## Subversion (Nov 19, 2013)

He might have meant US model because we don't get all the cool ESPs here in the states as the rest of the world unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about the models in the espguitars.co.jp site?


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## Subversion (Nov 19, 2013)

Sicarius said:


> It's MIJ, man. You just have the US model instead of the Export model that you would have received had you bought it there in Turkey.
> 
> Specs are probably slightly different, but it's still a MIJ.


 
As far as i understand the export model is in this site: espguitars.co.jp/oversea

and mine is here : espguitars.com

Is the export model somehow better than mine (has better specifications) or has the same quality?

Because the official Esp dealer in Turkey claimed that the ones they sell (export models probably) is better than us version.


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## Adam Of Angels (Nov 19, 2013)

LTD's are excellent, so long as you get the higher end models, but Edwards is usually just about on par with ESP.


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## Mega-Mads (Nov 20, 2013)

used ltd/esp eclipse =)

The EC-256 series are damn good for its pricetag too!


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## indrangelion (Nov 21, 2013)

I had a Korean Tokai Love Rock that I bought for $200, and it was the most versatile LP shaped guitar I ever had for that price.

I've played the Chinese model once, and I wasn't too happy about the fretwork.

Look into the Edwards model as well. The one that's based on the LP Custom model. The playability on those things are just superb!

EDIT: Ooh Zombie thread!


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## jephjacques (Nov 21, 2013)

LTDs are the best "lower end" guitars you can currently buy, IMO. I've been impressed with every single one I've handled.


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## Subversion (Nov 22, 2013)

Could anyone answer my question?


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## wakjob (Nov 22, 2013)

I wouldn't give up my lowly ec-256 for the nothing. Great guitar.


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## purpledc (Nov 27, 2013)

Subversion said:


> Could anyone answer my question?



That dealer is feeding you a load of shit. If its a standard series ESP the quality level will be the same no matter if its an export or US version. He is probably just upset you didnt buy your guitar through him and is trying to convince you to get his "better" guitar. Dont worry about it and I would avoid that dealer as he is obviously either completely full of shit, or empty on brain cells.


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## craigny (Nov 27, 2013)

another vote for the LTD EC-1000


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## Buddha92 (Nov 28, 2013)

can never go wrong with an EC1000, weather its an 05 or a 2011 model theyre all pretty nice. new they're almost too high priced for some, and used they're right around 400-600. each has their pros and cons. some would rather a cheaper epiphone lp. 
if you want something with emg's or duncans esp/ltd is the way to go. last time i checked(i could be wrong) epiphone lp's dont come stock with those kind of pickups like LTD's do. ive owned quite a few LTD's and still do. I highly recommend Korean made(better quality) over the cheaper Chinese made. Legit ESP's are hit and miss on price and quality as any other maker is. You CAN find USA ESP's but they're gonna be a nice and shiny penny. Japanese on the other hand depending on color and such. ive seen as low as $850 and as high as around 1.4k


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## craigny (Nov 28, 2013)

To me there is no comparison between an Epi and 1000 series LTD...unless its an elite or top o the line epi


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## Subversion (Nov 29, 2013)

purpledc said:


> That dealer is feeding you a load of shit. If its a standard series ESP the quality level will be the same no matter if its an export or US version. He is probably just upset you didnt buy your guitar through him and is trying to convince you to get his "better" guitar. Dont worry about it and I would avoid that dealer as he is obviously either completely full of shit, or empty on brain cells.



Thank you for your answer. I think so... Unfortunatelly he is the offical dealer of esp here. Likely, the most important market for esp is us ,so why esp sell versions in us worse than export models. &#305;ts a stupid idea.


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