# Why do people use low output pickups ?



## coffeeflush

Firstly, I have never used low output pickups. Period. 
I come from a metal background, currently using Dimarzio Evo 2 and breed, both are decently high output. 

I have seen lot of people who say they prefer low output pickups. 

Why ? 
What is the advantage ? 

I am not looking for a fight, just honestly curious .


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## steelyad

Subtlety.

If you have hot output pickups, they'll scream and chug with a fairly consistent response even when you're not fully paying attention (read: running around a stage) which is great for heavy rock and metal, especially with the gain on 11.

Low(er) output pickups mean that for the same amount of string vibration, there's less level being thrown at the amp, and therefore the wood tone can come through more, the pick sounds can be more detailed, there's generally just more "life" to the sound.

It's really a double-edged sword though, and is horses for courses. I find that blues works really well with low-output humbuckers, because I can back my picking off and you can feel the difference on each note, but if I stick a heavy boost pedal or TS808 on I get the "beef" back.

IMO, if you want a screaming tone with less emphasis on wood tone and dynamics, high output is good because of less background noise and more sonic consistency. If you want detail and character (especially on less-driven or clean tones) then low output should be the choice in that case.

My fave example of using both is that I have a Les Paul with BKP Juggernauts. The bridge pickup is high output (14k) and is a beast, but the neck pickup is only about 8k which isn't much hotter than an original PAF - I can go from detailed cleans and solos to screaming leads in one switch. WIN!

I'd like to hear other opinions on this as well.


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## Steinmetzify

For me it's more control. 

I have McCarty pickups in both my PRS and my LP, and just enjoy being able to kick the volume down a tad and have great cleans, but still have the aggressive nature when I want to. I like adding gain at the amp. EMGs are fun once in a while, but they bug me to record with because of the preamp and how much extra noise it adds. 

Like said above, I can back off on how hard I pick and that's usually enough to sound a bit more mellow, and then hit it harder and there's the chunk. 

For the record, I do have a Nailbomb in one guitar and a Warpig in another, and they're like 15k and 21k respectively; for most recordings I use my McCarty or LP though.


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## stuglue

Frequency response.
More winds means more volume (higher output) but at the expense of top end, that's why single coils are generally felt to a have a more cutting sharper top end. Lower output humbuckers do the same, they retain more top end and don't swamp the bottom end with bass.
I used to be a high output guy until i realised i couldn't get the X2N to clean up well. Also i noticed on a frequency analyser that there was a lot more way down at 20hz but it rolled off heavily at 8-10khz range. It showed in the sound too, quite dull.
Personally one of my favourite pickups is the D Activator neck pickup in the bridge area, less output, less bass so in a mix it cut through without being swamped by the bass and kick.


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## Demiurge

coffeeflush said:


> Why ?
> *What is the advantage ? *
> 
> I am not looking for a fight, just honestly curious .



I suppose this question could be turned-around on high output pickups- with the pedals & amps available these days, there's more than enough gain available, thus lessening the importance of a pickup's output level. You can really chose pickups based on how they're made to sound instead of output level.


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## russmuller

It's contextual. There are lots of situations where you might not want to drive the input of something as hard. I personally prefer mid-output pickups; hot enough to be able to push a clean channel the edge of breakup if I play hard, but mild enough that I still have lots of dynamics on the distortion channel.

There's also a school of thought which reasons that the pickups are one of the most influential factors on tone, so by using pickups that don't add as much harmonic distortion up front you can hear the subtler influences on the tone more clearly. I don't know how objectively true that is, but it seems like an intuitive enough viewpoint.


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## Aymara

coffeeflush said:


> Why ?



It's matter of taste 



> What is the advantage ?



Much more dynamics and overtones, which is especially an advantage for clean tones and low overdrive crunch sounds.

Let's listen to one of my favourites ... a Gretsch with Filtertron pickups:



And now imagine the same riffs with EMGs ... no, thanks, not for such Rock stuff.

PS: I forgot ... I can play this guitar clean in the overdrive channel by lowering the overdrive or the guitar volume, which is impossible with active pickups. In my opinion a huge advantage.


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## marcwormjim

As others have stated, it's largely a matter of preference. Another thing to consider is covering a song or style in which you try to replicate a player's signal path (of which the pickups are often a crucial component): 

For the same reason you wouldn't necessarily expect a Marshall sound out of a low-watt Fender amp with an overdrive pedal in front of it, it seems unwise to plug a BC Rich with a Hetfield EMG set into a Hot Rod Deluxe and expect to immediately have an SRV tone at your fingertips - You can tweak any rig to sound "better"/more appropriate for what you're striving to achieve, but it's a matter of substitution, versus trying to replicate a signal path faithfully. I've heard a player achieve an amazing approximation of Eric Johnson's tone with an Epiphone Les Paul into a Line 6 Spider 3, and I've heard the same achieved by fans who've invested thousands into duplicating his rig - It's a matter of working with what you have, but also knowing what tools you prefer to work with.

I used to prefer only low-output Alinco V bridge pickups. Dimarzio's Greg Howe GH5 pickup showed me that you can wind this kind of pickup much hotter, while managing to preserve the low-output tone; given that the person winding it EQ it to compensate. However, the fact that it was nonetheless a hot pickup overdrove the input of my clean amp signal path. If I had to settle for working with it, I could have just turned the preamp gain down, or perhaps ran it through a compressor or EQ pedal that output a signal below unity gain. But, being as I was merely auditioning the pickup, I instead replaced it with a more appropriate, lower-output pickup for what I was trying to achieve.

Having rambled through all of that, I remind myself and everyone else that, at the end of the day, the best-sounding guitar is one played under capable fingers: Greg Howe sounds better playing through that pickup than I ever could.

The best tool I can recommend for anyone wanting to get a sense of how pickup output affects the rest of the signal path and, consequently, inspires one's playing, is to go into a store and play around with a Line 6 Variax guitar. Alternatively, play a humbucker-equipped guitar with a coil-split option.


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## coffeeflush

Hey everyone, thanks for all the answers. 

Lot of you mentioned the eq curve is different to compensate for low output, namely the high end mostly. 

Are there any single coils or low output pickups with flat frequency response ?


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## EmaDaCuz

As others have already said, it is all a matter of clarity, dynamics, "spankyness", vibration, and so on. However, it also depends on the genre you are playing.
I am probably crazy, and I use mid-output single coils for extreme metal because I love the tonal variation I can get. However, to get crunchy, beefy tones, for blues, or classic rock I go with high output humbuckers and just a little distortion from the amp.


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## marcwormjim

coffeeflush said:


> Are there any single coils or low output pickups with flat frequency response ?



Lace Alumitones come to mind as sounding flat to many, but are my current favorite pickups.


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## coffeeflush

marcwormjim said:


> Lace Alumitones come to mind as sounding flat to many, but are my current favorite pickups.



Aren't they supposed to be high output ? 
Ive used them and while I couldn't do an A/B comparison with my dimarzios , they did feel quiet hot to me. 

I am actually planning to have them in my next guitar.


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## coffeeflush

Aymara said:


> It's matter of taste
> 
> 
> 
> Much more dynamics and overtones, which is especially an advantage for clean tones and low overdrive crunch sounds.
> 
> Let's listen to one of my favourites ... a Gretsch with Filtertron pickups:
> 
> 
> 
> And now imagine the same riffs with EMGs ... no, thanks, not for such Rock stuff.
> .




The cleans on that guitar are insane ! Dynamics with such clarity


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## marcwormjim

Was it the single or humbucker-sized Alumitones you found hot? Also, their distance from the strings makes a huge difference.


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## Winspear

stuglue said:


> Frequency response.
> More winds means more volume (higher output) but at the expense of top end, that's why single coils are generally felt to a have a more cutting sharper top end. Lower output humbuckers do the same, they retain more top end and don't swamp the bottom end with bass.
> I used to be a high output guy until i realised i couldn't get the X2N to clean up well. Also i noticed on a frequency analyser that there was a lot more way down at 20hz but it rolled off heavily at 8-10khz range. It showed in the sound too, quite dull.
> Personally one of my favourite pickups is the D Activator neck pickup in the bridge area, less output, less bass so in a mix it cut through without being swamped by the bass and kick.





Something important to add to this though, is the difference with active pickups. Actives are nice because they allow a low output pickup to have a preamp attached to boost its level. This means you can get a high output pickup without the characteristics discussed here. Just thought that should be pointed out because its easy to lump actives into the high output category, but it's not correct to make the tonal assumptions indicated here towards active pickups.


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## GraemeH

The idea that you necessarily want high output pickups for high gain music is a fallacy. You want clarity and responsiveness in certain critical frequency ranges (which frequencies depend on the rest of your rig, the style of music, your ear) so the sound doesn't turn to mush after your gain stages.

If you start out with muddy .... coming out your guitar, you'll end up with muddy .... squared after your gain stages.

See for information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtT07Fdeq4


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## Casper777

As it has been said, lower output means more dynamics, less compression and better note definition (not always but still)...

In a world where amps now have so much gain on tap, super high output pickups are less needed in my view.

It's always easier to push the gain on the amp with lower output pickups than being stuck with super hot pickups.

But again it's a matter of tastes, needs and music style. Hopefully we have now a HUGE choice of pickups to choose from


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## Nag

If what you want is a high gain metal sound, it just boils down to gain staging.

You can get "a" high gain sound out of a vintage output humbucker played through a Deluxe Reverb, with 7 overdrive pedals chained up in front. It works. It makes "a" high gain sound. But is it the sound that you're after ? Depends.

High output pickups make it easier to have a tighter sound. Modern high gain amps make it easier to have a well-defined clear metal sound. It's a great combo for modern metal (all-in power, next to zero dynamics). Lower output pickups aren't as tight but they allow more dynamics. Same goes for reducing the amp gain and send an overdrive pedal through a crunch channel instead of going dry into a high gain channel. It's all about gain staging and at which point in the signal path you add what amount of gain.

If you listen to stuff like old WASP albums, the rhythm guitars sound quite a bit looser than what you'd hear today. Maybe what you want is a super fizzy thin sounding distortion (like if you cover black metal from 1992), in which case the Fender amp with 7 overdrives might not even be that bad of a choice.

In your signal chain, the pickups are kinda like the fine tuning. Quick example.

I like having moderate output pickups. I have a Full Shred set in my ESP. They're on the hotter side of moderate output, I'd say. The bridge pickup pushes less than something like a JB, a Custom or a Distortion, so it's a much more controlled sound but it doesn't have the "oomph wall of sound" effect you'd get from the others. It does shred, and for stuff like power metal, neoclassical etc it's great, but for death metal ? You'd want that brootz pickup instead. The neck pickup, on the other hand, isn't low enough output for clean cleans (for my personal tastes, I need to swap it, probably for a Jazz or a 59). On full volume it will always clip noticeably on the clean channel. What this means though is that, for metal leads, you can have a bit less gain on the amp, and the pickup itself pushes the signal enough. So you don't have to crush the signal with tons of gain, allowing for more dynamics while soloing.

It gets problematic if you want a super versatile setup. I prefer having several one-trick ponies, but if you want one guitar and one amp to do blues and metal, you're in for some compromise


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## bostjan

I can't really say that I agree with people's reasoning here, from a logical standpoint, but the general idea is correct: it's a matter of taste. If a little is good, more is not necessarily better.

So I guess the answer to "Why do people use low output pickups?" is "Why not?"

I don't really see an advantage of one over the other, unless you supply context.


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## Aymara

coffeeflush said:


> The cleans on that guitar are insane ! Dynamics with such clarity



Thanks, yes for cleans, this Gretsch Panther is hard to beat. But it can also create this early "The Cult" sound, which Billy Duffy used a Falcon for back in the days.

And I think this guitar is a good example, that there are huge differences between different passive pickups ... some have better clarity and dynamics than others, e.g. compare this Gretsch with a LesPaul, which is a totally different beast, no matter which passive pickups are installed. No LP has such a clear high end and no Gretsch has the low end of a LP.

Btw ... regarding special EQ for passive pickups, which you asked above: From my experience every guitar needs it's own EQ, because body design, wood, pickups AND the string choice too all create it's individual sound profile. The above Gretsch / LP comparison is a good example for this fact.

In my opinion the hugest advantage of active pickups is, that they are usually totally noise free and make them a good choice for recording, especially in suboptimal environments like home recording.


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## coffeeflush

marcwormjim said:


> Was it the single or humbucker-sized Alumitones you found hot? Also, their distance from the strings makes a huge difference.


Used the humbuckers. They were quiet close to strings though. 
Their single coil sound is suposed to have no drop in output which is a win win factor for me.


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## coffeeflush

Aymara said:


> Btw ... regarding special EQ for passive pickups, which you asked above: From my experience every guitar needs it's own EQ, because body design, wood, pickups AND the string choice too all create it's individual sound profile. The above Gretsch / LP comparison is a good example for this fact.
> 
> In my opinion the hugest advantage of active pickups is, that they are usually totally noise free and make them a good choice for recording, especially in suboptimal environments like home recording.



My problem is I am using a fretless guitar with flatwound strings and metal fingerboard ! (meme equivalent of a german vegan engineer who does crossfit and vapes)
I have no default from where to begin for eq. 

But what others have mentioned about dynamics is a problem I have faced a lot, which is what I asked this question.


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## coffeeflush

Once again thanks to everyone for answering. 
I know I provided little context and a fairly basic question but thanks guys.


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## wakjob

So much conjecture and misinformation here. It's a different means to the same end.

You can lower a high output pu away from the strings and have the same sound and feel of a lower output pu. 
I do this a lot.

And anyone who says you can't get dynamics from an active pu is nuts. 
Or, hasn't played an '83 BC Rich with cream-bottom EMG 81's.

Responds as well, if not better to rolling back the volume knob to clean up the sound as any passive.

Also, looking a DC resistance (or magnet type for that matter) when judging a pu is only getting a small part of the puzzle. There's way more involved in the outcome of a pu.


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## Rachmaninoff

Aymara said:


> Much more dynamics and overtones, which is especially an advantage for clean tones and low overdrive crunch sounds.
> 
> Let's listen to one of my favourites ... a Gretsch with Filtertron pickups:
> 
> 
> 
> And now imagine the same riffs with EMGs ... no, thanks, not for such Rock stuff.




OMG that's some *tasty* tone !!!


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## 7 Strings of Hate

wakjob said:


> So much conjecture and misinformation here. It's a different means to the same end.
> 
> You can lower a high output pu away from the strings and have the same sound and feel of a lower output pu.



I don't get the same flavor and tone from my hot pups lowered away from the strings. I get the same voicing and heat, just quieter. There is just something that lower output pups do that give a tone with such flavor and soul. 

I just rely on a monster hand when I want to get aggressive sounds and let my amp do the distortion. I spent thousands on a rig, might as well let it do most of the talking.


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## mongey

I have what I'll medium hot in my main axes . nailbombs ,waprig, cold sweat and duncan alt8 . I have actually been backing them away from the strings quite a bit more than usual lately.I think they sustain better and feel better to play and with a boost it doesn't really matter anyway in terms of hitting the amp


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## bostjan

tl;dr this thread: YMMV


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