# Diezel Herbert VS Bogner Uberschall VS Engl Invader :The modern metal amp head battle



## Guitarholic (Mar 25, 2008)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, there are other amps than just these three, yada yada yada. But these are the three amps that I would count into the category of modern metal amp (and yes, they can do more than just metal) and I just wanted to see which one would win here?

Diezel: 



Bogner: 



Engl:




Even though I´m a Herbie owner...I´d tend to say Invader, hahaha. 
Got huge gas for that amp.


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## zimbloth (Mar 25, 2008)

For what it's worth I think the Diezel by FAR sounds the best of the 3 based on these clips. The Invader sounds like a fizzy scooped solid-state, and the Bogner isn't dialed in well at all. The Diezel in the first video sounds excellent.

Though I like this idea in theory, a collection of amateur youtube videos with shitty sound is not going to be a fair basis of judging high-end tube amps. Watching things like these are fun, but I hope no one actually makes a decision based on stuff like this


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## Crucified (Mar 25, 2008)

my vote goes to the herbert. it could easily pull of those invader tones.


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## PeteyG (Mar 25, 2008)

Guitarholic said:


>




That's me, and to be fair, I'd only had the thing a matter of days and I'm still not done trying to get it perfect with tone and micing it up (also it was mic'ed up through an MG cab, which lets face it, sounds like crap).

But yeah, I'm definitely saying ENGL, it seems far more versatile than either of the other amps mentioned from what I can tell so far.


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## El Caco (Mar 25, 2008)

Based on those clips alone I would say the Diezel.

I have to agree with Nick, there are too many variables, mic, mic position, cab, speakers, room.


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## Crucified (Mar 25, 2008)

i own both the herbert and ubershall. never tried the invader but honestly if the herbert was my last amp i'd be happy.


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## bulb (Mar 25, 2008)

having played all 3 amps extensively i would have to say the invader is by far my favorite, the ubeschall second, and im just plain not a fan of the herbert...


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## LordOVchaoS (Mar 25, 2008)

bulb said:


> having played all 3 amps extensively i would have to say the invader is by far my favorite, the ubeschall second, and im just plain not a fan of the herbert...



I totally concur but I don't have extensive experience with the Herbie. I played one for about 15 minutes and left disappointed. I was tired of tweaking and just couldn't get the note clarity and aggression that I want from an amp. I found it squishy and TOO harmonic rich which kind of made things muddy. The Uber is a great amp but again it's not tight enough for what I do most of the time and it lacked features. The Invader = VERY versatile, tight when you need it/squishy when you need it, the cheapest of the three. Basically what I'm saying is the Invader can do what the other two amps do and them some but you can't get an Invader tone out of either of those.


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## zimbloth (Mar 26, 2008)

If you couldnt get the Herbert to sound tight and not muddy, then definitely 15 minutes wasn't nearly enough. Those amps are super tight and super articulate, there's so many variables in play. The cabinet (front loaded vs. back-loaded), the speakers, the tubes/bias, pickups, etc.

I don't have a lot of experience with the Invader, but the Bogner and Diezel are definitely incredible amps, with quality that's second to none. I personally prefer the growl and overall tone of the Diezel more.


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## petereanima (Mar 26, 2008)

unfortuneately, not even one of the youtube videos comes near to what the herbert really sounds (and i think this will also be for the other amps) - there is sooooo much more tone in reality...

i never could try an uberschall unfortuneately..but i had invader and the herbert in A/B - went with herbi, never regretted.


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## turmoil (Mar 26, 2008)

yeah, judging amps based off of you tube videos isn't really the best way to go about comparing these amps.

my personal favorite is the Herbert. i play/own a Powerball and it's an amazing amp and i'm sure the Invader sounds a bit better than that, but seriously, the herbert is in a league of its own. just my .02


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## trig (Mar 26, 2008)

something for your GAS (or if someone is browsing through this in search of an amp review...a bit offtopic nonetheless  ): http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gear-equipment/51020-invader-vs-uberschall-amp-deciding.html


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## Nightcrawler (Mar 26, 2008)

All those clips sound like shit. Does cost have any say in this decision? From what I've seen its Invader<Uber<Herbert. Also, shouldnt the VHT Pitbull be in this discussion? I got major GAS for that amp...that or the Invader, just so I can trade my Powerball in. The other two are definately out of my range, even used. Well, maybe not the Uber. 
I'd say if you can afford it, get the Diezel. Money does buy quality in some cases. If not, the Invader,seems way more versatile than the Uber. However, if all you need is a rad high gain channel, go with the used Bogner, as used Invaders won't be around for a little while.

Bottom line, Kevin needs to get an Invader and let me move in for a few days.


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## Crucified (Mar 27, 2008)

Nightcrawler said:


> Bottom line, Kevin needs to get an Invader and let me move in for a few days.



hey man, i keep telling you to get out here!


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## Guitarholic (Mar 27, 2008)

So far it is

5 Votes for the Diezel
4 Votes for the Engl
0 Votes for the Bogner

Very interesting indeed!


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## John_Strychnine (Mar 27, 2008)

Herbert then invader then uberschall.

Herbert is hands down the best tone i have ever heard.

FWIW we just recorded our album with the Invader 100. Will be showing you some audio samples of that soon!
Sounds amazing.


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## bulb (Mar 27, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> If you couldnt get the Herbert to sound tight and not muddy, then definitely 15 minutes wasn't nearly enough. Those amps are super tight and super articulate, there's so many variables in play. The cabinet (front loaded vs. back-loaded), the speakers, the tubes/bias, pickups, etc.



in my local store the herbert, vh4, se and invader are all in a little corner so i have spent a lot of time with all of them a/bing and trying them all through the diezel cab thats there (really nice) and the engl v30 cab (not so nice at all...)

the herbert is loose and muddy and undefined compared to the invader the gain is oversaturated and it just has too much unusable gain on it i have tried it soft and loud and in between, with a tubescreamer and without, and i just cant get it to sound nearly as good as the other 3 amps...hell compared to the other 3 amps, regardless of which cabinet its going thru, and the diezel cab is a flattering cab too.
the vh4 on the other hand is very articulate, out of the 4 amps i would place it in second place behind the invader, if anything just because it costs almost 2000 dollars more than the invader, and its definitely not worth that...


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## petereanima (Mar 27, 2008)

bulb said:


> the herbert is loose and muddy and undefined compared to the invader



 strange world - when i a/b-ed them it was the complete opposite...

EDIT: not that the invader IS loose and muddy, not at all - but the diezel was even tighter than the engl.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Mar 27, 2008)

Man, this makes my desire for a VH4 even worse... One day I'll find one, play it, and then see how much damage I can do to my finances...


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## Crucified (Mar 27, 2008)

i'm surprised. Were you trying to use the 3rd chan on the herbert? i had to bump back to number two and i have the gain at about half, the i use the mid scoop feature and turn the knob all the way down so its just a clean boost, and i have the pres pretty high and the res at about half. it's tight as balls for what i'm wanting to do.
the herbie has a lot of features and even something as little as using the mid bump on it drastically changes the sound. even with the mid contour completely off. to each their own though and i still haven't tried an invader yet.



bulb said:


> in my local store the herbert, vh4, se and invader are all in a little corner so i have spent a lot of time with all of them a/bing and trying them all through the diezel cab thats there (really nice) and the engl v30 cab (not so nice at all...)
> 
> the herbert is loose and muddy and undefined compared to the invader the gain is oversaturated and it just has too much unusable gain on it i have tried it soft and loud and in between, with a tubescreamer and without, and i just cant get it to sound nearly as good as the other 3 amps...hell compared to the other 3 amps, regardless of which cabinet its going thru, and the diezel cab is a flattering cab too.
> the vh4 on the other hand is very articulate, out of the 4 amps i would place it in second place behind the invader, if anything just because it costs almost 2000 dollars more than the invader, and its definitely not worth that...


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## HighGain510 (Mar 27, 2008)

I wouldn't judge the amps by the videos alone since that's obviously the noob thing to do but I wasn't impressed by the tone of the Bogner Uberschall in that video at all.  Out of those three, I'd have to take the Engl just because I've played them in person a few times and I don't think there are too many other amps (other than a Brunetti obviously! ) that really do it for me anymore. The Diezel sounds okay but I know a ton of metal guys who have bought the Herbert and within a few weeks wanted to get rid of it (they are gigging musicians too so they've had the chance to play them at volume in a band setting! ) and they have pretty good ears for tone IMHO too so I trust their opinions.


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## neroceasar (Mar 27, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> For what it's worth I think the Diezel by FAR sounds the best of the 3 based on these clips. The Invader sounds like a fizzy scooped solid-state, and the Bogner isn't dialed in well at all. The Diezel in the first video sounds excellent.
> 
> Though I like this idea in theory, a collection of amateur youtube videos with shitty sound is not going to be a fair basis of judging high-end tube amps. Watching things like these are fun, but I hope no one actually makes a decision based on stuff like this



I agree with everything you've said. And to add I've herd the bogner sound just like the fist clip of the herbert but, I bet the herbert can sound better but is has a very hefty price tag.


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## Karl Hungus (Mar 27, 2008)

None of the clips are particularly good, to be honest. The Invader clips sound rather poor, and I wouldn't be able to tell in a blind test that those 2 clips were of the amp I actually owned.


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