# The Fishman Fluence Thread



## patdavidmusic

Morning gents,
If this is too much of a ballsy maneuver just let me know and we can delete the thread.

I feel there are many thread asking about Fishman pickups, i thought one place would help a lot of people have their questions answered / clear up any misconceptions. I'm not being paid nor am I affiliated, I was just on the fence for so very long and it would have really helped me to have all of this information in one place. Not just for myself to answer but other owners as well, I see so many threads I thought one place might be better.

Although I just have one set, I am so blown away I'll be purchasing a different set later this month to compare (probably the Keith Merrow set)

I just had the Fishman Devin Townsend set installed, holy cow it is better than i imagined
Below is a video with clean demos, different voices and single coil mode


They'll be a similar to the above just with gain, next week.

If you just want the audio
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18d6yK7W8yJ1QPxRd2_Thyv9ltjO0GhQG/view


In another thread a lot of people asked if I could add DI, tracks and use real amps, I'll be using real amps in the next couple of days but DI tracks will take longer as I work out how to re-amp with the eleven rack / fractal ax8.

If there's any questions or queries, things you want to see or hear please let me know


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Devy set is the only one I'm apprehensive to try. They make it sound like it's a smoother, bassier EMG 81. Now I feel like in some guitars, the EMG 81 actually lacks some presence and high end, so that's the opposite of what I'd want from them. 

Now I have a set of Moderns and I love them to death. They have the tightness of the EMG 81, but more clarity and more high end presence in voice 1, and voice 2 reminds me of the B&B L500XL with the scooped mids, thick lows, and VERY twangy high end. I also have the Classics and these are probably my favorite passive (sounding) pickups. Voice 1 is bright and chimey and works well under clean and slight crunch. Voice 2 has a thick and tight tone and a VERY bitey high end/high mid attack. I have them in 2 guitars and love them. And voice 1 of the neck is the perfect clean sound. Not too fond of voice 2, but god I love voice 1 to death. 

Just ordered a KsE set as well. Gonna see how those work out.


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## patdavidmusic

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Devy set is the only one I'm apprehensive to try. They make it sound like it's a smoother, bassier EMG 81. Now I feel like in some guitars, the EMG 81 actually lacks some presence and high end, so that's the opposite of what I'd want from them.
> 
> Now I have a set of Moderns and I love them to death. They have the tightness of the EMG 81, but more clarity and more high end presence in voice 1, and voice 2 reminds me of the B&B L500XL with the scooped mids, thick lows, and VERY twangy high end. I also have the Classics and these are probably my favorite passive (sounding) pickups. Voice 1 is bright and chimey and works well under clean and slight crunch. Voice 2 has a thick and tight tone and a VERY bitey high end/high mid attack. I have them in 2 guitars and love them. And voice 1 of the neck is the perfect clean sound. Not too fond of voice 2, but god I love voice 1 to death.
> 
> Just ordered a KsE set as well. Gonna see how those work out.



Champion, these types of comments really help others, personally I'm not finding the Devins to bass heavy, but I'll post up my gain clips this week for others to see, the single coil mode is just stunning it has this pull and bass rounded tone of an actual single coil, obviously not exactly the same but certainly the feel is so much closer than just normally spitting a humbucker


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## Ziricote

When will we see actual bands using them for recording? How are they in a mix? Are they pleasing to the ears? I like a warm passive sound


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## patdavidmusic

Ziricote said:


> When will we see actual bands using them for recording? How are they in a mix? Are they pleasing to the ears? I like a warm passive sound



Sounds pretty good to me


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## TheShade0110

Ziricote said:


> When will we see actual bands using them for recording? How are they in a mix? Are they pleasing to the ears? I like a warm passive sound



 

I've heard plenty of Fishman owners comment on how mix-friendly/easy to mix Fishman pickups are(aside from the Stephen Carpenter set).

On another note I'm looking to grab a set of KSE sigs for my baritone 6 at some point soon-ish. They're supposedly the tightest, most articulate set in V1 so I'm excited to hear them in some ridiculous tuning like drop G, even though I'll likely *just* be using them in C or B standard and may end up favoring the passive voice anyways.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Well like i said i goy a set on the way. Ill be comparing them directly to an EMG 81/60 set.


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## Shask

I like this thread. I am thinking I am gonna get a set because I am curious. I think I have settled on the Modern set, since it seems to be the original one that all the others are based on. I have 2 PRS SEs that need new pickups. I have used passive Duncans the last several years, but was a big EMG user before that.

I was gonna order some, but it seems like they are currently out of stock at many places.


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## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well like i said i goy a set on the way. Ill be comparing them directly to an EMG 81/60 set.


Can I also request in said comparison, trying to EQ the 81 so it sounds as close to a modern as possible aswell?

Im curious about this and convinced the difference between their core sounds, could be the difference of just adding one of the active EQ knob options EMG offer to the existing 81 to add more high end twang or what not (if you already own the 81 obviously)


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## cip 123

Ziricote said:


> When will we see actual bands using them for recording? How are they in a mix? Are they pleasing to the ears? I like a warm passive sound




They're excellent for recording. You've probably already heard them you won't be able to tell in a final mix but if you're an engineer sitting down you will.

In my personal experience switching from Dimarzio to Modern 7's they cut out a lot of low end warbling frequencies i.e. static noise frequencies that weren't really helping with the sound of the note more just a low quiet but noticeable warble.

I tracked my bands entire EP again when we realised we were getting a clearer signal.

Mind you this wasn't a very scientific test, the mic wasn't 100% in the same place but after sending just one track with the fishmans to my engineer we re-did the other 3 tracks.

Also they seem to get away from the lifeless sterile tone I usually get with ceramic pickups and the active/passive mode really helps. I have songs where I'll switch to passive mode and some for active.


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## patdavidmusic

cip 123 said:


> They're excellent for recording. You've probably already heard them you won't be able to tell in a final mix but if you're an engineer sitting down you will.
> 
> In my personal experience switching from Dimarzio to Modern 7's they cut out a lot of low end warbling frequencies i.e. static noise frequencies that weren't really helping with the sound of the note more just a low quiet but noticeable warble.
> 
> I tracked my bands entire EP again when we realised we were getting a clearer signal.
> 
> Mind you this wasn't a very scientific test, the mic wasn't 100% in the same place but after sending just one track with the fishmans to my engineer we re-did the other 3 tracks.
> 
> Also they seem to get away from the lifeless sterile tone I usually get with ceramic pickups and the active/passive mode really helps. I have songs where I'll switch to passive mode and some for active.



I feel the same way, I'm literally putting the final touches on an EP and I just got the pickups, I'm almost tempted to re-record it would just kill me


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## cip 123

patdavidmusic said:


> I feel the same way, I'm literally putting the final touches on an EP and I just got the pickups, I'm almost tempted to re-record it would just kill me




It was for ease of mixing with my band. The Dimarzios didn't sound bad by any means but with the fishmans cutting out some troubling frequencies it just made mixing easier. 

If you're already there with the EP there isn't much point. We were pretty early on in the mixing stages. Like I said earlier at the final outcome no one is going to know what pickups/amp/guitar you used. The Fishmans just helped my engineer at the time. If you've already dealt with the mix on other pickups stick with that mix rather than create more work!


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## Strobe

I own:

Strat set
Tele Set
Classic humbuckers
Modern Humbuckers
Tosin Abasi set

I am not adept at uploading music to the interweb, but might be able to if we need it. In general I have found other better players more skilled with their interweb-fu than I to share.

Happy to answer any questions on the ones I have. I have. They're all good. The classics are my favorite of the bunch - the tones seem to have the most variety to me, and it's all really good. In the same way that PAF pickups can work for almost any style, these can too - while also working better down-tuned than most PAF pickups do. I also prefer the Tosins to the moderns slightly.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay so I actually got them in today. 

I just plugged the KsE bridge directly into the EMG wiring. 

From what I can tell, the KsE Moderns are definitely lower output. Not extreme, but it's noticable. They also have less bass and low. More in the mid/upper mids and treble region. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-367099678/emg-81-vs-fishman-killswitch-engage-fluence


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## TedEH

I've been debating getting a set of classics to throw in one guitar to replace some Blackouts that I don't always get along with. I get the impression that the moderns would be something I'd go for if I was more a fan of traditional actives (81, etc) but I tend to be more a fan of passives and clean sounds and rolling back volume to smooth stuff out, and playing with dynamics and mid-gain sounds, etc. I've got 81s already so that territory is covered.

I found that any time I've picked up a guitar with any kind of actives you can sort of feel the active-ness of it immediately, and it's not something I'm a fan of. For those who have tried these so far, do these "feel" like actives? Or is it more something in between, or totally different?


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## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay so I actually got them in today.
> 
> I just plugged the KsE bridge directly into the EMG wiring.
> 
> From what I can tell, the KsE Moderns are definitely lower output. Not extreme, but it's noticable. They also have less bass and low. More in the mid/upper mids and treble region.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/user-367099678/emg-81-vs-fishman-killswitch-engage-fluence


holy shit so they DO work with EMG wiring/solderless?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> holy shit so they DO work with EMG wiring/solderless?


They do. But like i said you're stuck with one voicing unless you wire in a separate mini toggle or something. And that requires soldering.


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## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They do. But like i said you're stuck with one voicing unless you wire in a separate mini toggle or something. And that requires soldering.


what about the push/pull? have we worked out if that works? haha


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## TedEH

If a toggle would work I don't see why push/pull woudln't. A switch is a switch.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

TedEH said:


> If a toggle would work I don't see why push/pull woudln't. A switch is a switch.



Because I don't know if EMG's solderless push-pulls work.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay, so these pickups didn't "wow" me as much as the Moderns and Classics did. With the bridge, I feel they're actually a bit too thin in voice 1. I like the midrange voicing, could use a bit more in the lower frequences. Like, very low frequencies, not low-mids. That, and I feel Voice 2 is too dark. It's weird, because cleans are nice and chimey in voice 2, yet have this thick darkness. But under distortion, the bridge is very dark. Needs more high end.

I dig the neck, though. Voice 1 reminds me of a mix between the EMG 81 and 85. Voice 2 is amazing. Like the bridge, it's got a lot of low end and is kinda dark, but has this pristine high end that just sounds beautiful. I love it a LOT.

If I ever get the chance, I need to compare the Moderns to the KsE set in the same guitar. To see how much of a difference there is. I'm just too lazy because a pickup change with my flying V is too much of a goddamn hassle.  And I feel like it wouldn't be a fair comparison just comparing the two guitars with each other. I feel like the guitar the KsE set is in is more dark than my V, which seems to be a very bright guitar. Which is odd, because they're both all-mahogany with rosewood fretboards.


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## Shask

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay, so these pickups didn't "wow" me as much as the Moderns and Classics did. With the bridge, I feel they're actually a bit too thin in voice 1. I like the midrange voicing, could use a bit more in the lower frequences. Like, very low frequencies, not low-mids. That, and I feel Voice 2 is too dark. It's weird, because cleans are nice and chimey in voice 2, yet have this thick darkness. But under distortion, the bridge is very dark. Needs more high end.
> 
> I dig the neck, though. Voice 1 reminds me of a mix between the EMG 81 and 85. Voice 2 is amazing. Like the bridge, it's got a lot of low end and is kinda dark, but has this pristine high end that just sounds beautiful. I love it a LOT.
> 
> If I ever get the chance, I need to compare the Moderns to the KsE set in the same guitar. To see how much of a difference there is. I'm just too lazy because a pickup change with my flying V is too much of a goddamn hassle.  And I feel like it wouldn't be a fair comparison just comparing the two guitars with each other. I feel like the guitar the KsE set is in is more dark than my V, which seems to be a very bright guitar. Which is odd, because they're both all-mahogany with rosewood fretboards.


That doesn't sound like something I would like, because I am hoping the Modern has a fuller, chuggier bass low end than the EMG 81.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Shask said:


> That doesn't sound like something I would like, because I am hoping the Modern has a fuller, chuggier bass low end than the EMG 81.



Sounds like you might want the regular Moderns or the Devy set. The KsE set isn't for you.


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## Fractal

Strobe said:


> I own:
> 
> Strat set
> Tele Set
> Classic humbuckers
> Modern Humbuckers
> Tosin Abasi set
> 
> I am not adept at uploading music to the interweb, but might be able to if we need it. In general I have found other better players more skilled with their interweb-fu than I to share.
> 
> Happy to answer any questions on the ones I have. I have. They're all good. The classics are my favorite of the bunch - the tones seem to have the most variety to me, and it's all really good. In the same way that PAF pickups can work for almost any style, these can too - while also working better down-tuned than most PAF pickups do. I also prefer the Tosins to the moderns slightly.



Is there any additional option like coil tap for two push-pull knobs and 5-way switch configuration on abasi set? 
Why do you prefer them over moderns?


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## Strobe

Fractal said:


> Is there any additional option like coil tap for two push-pull knobs and 5-way switch configuration on abasi set?
> Why do you prefer them over moderns?



Regarding the switching - essentially all of the voicings are activated by sending a lead to the ground. On the Abasi set, there is a prong that you attach a quick connect to on the pick for the single coil voicing. On the moderns, it's not a prong, it's just a soldering pad. In both cases, you have to solder to the tone/volume caps. in the Modern you also need to solder to the pad for the voicings. You could wire either of them to a 5 way switch and have the 2/4 positions activate single coil voicings. The Moderns would require just two more soldering actions - not a big deal.

I prefer the Tosin Abasi set because (1) it has a better split sound - a really good split sound that is very stratty and (2) I think the mid character sounds better for leads at the expensive of a slightly less percussive attack. The moderns bridge kind of has that EMG81 upper mid spike that makes staccato riffs sound really present - unlike the EMG81's they have a more sparkly high end - whereas EMG81's have kind of a smooth rounded high end to my ears. The Tosins feel a little more even across the frequency spectrum and seem to make the leads feel thicker and with more body. Both are still very clear. I feel like the Tosin set has a little more versatility to it, whereas the moderns have a narrower range of types of sounds they do.


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## Shask

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds like you might want the regular Moderns or the Devy set. The KsE set isn't for you.


I did pick up a Modern set today! However, when I got home I noticed it came with 2 Ceramics.... sigh, guess I will have to exchange it. Not sure the Ceramic would sound good in the neck.


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## Carcaridon

Shask said:


> I did pick up a Modern set today! However, when I got home I noticed it came with 2 Ceramics.... sigh, guess I will have to exchange it. Not sure the Ceramic would sound good in the neck.



I have the Alnico in the bridge of one of my guitars and it sounds massive. When you get a corrected set, definitely try this out. To me the tone is fuller and beefier, but still tight, with the Alnico in the bridge.


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## Shask

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Devy set is the only one I'm apprehensive to try. They make it sound like it's a smoother, bassier EMG 81. Now I feel like in some guitars, the EMG 81 actually lacks some presence and high end, so that's the opposite of what I'd want from them.
> 
> Now I have a set of Moderns and I love them to death. They have the tightness of the EMG 81, but more clarity and more high end presence in voice 1, and voice 2 reminds me of the B&B L500XL with the scooped mids, thick lows, and VERY twangy high end. I also have the Classics and these are probably my favorite passive (sounding) pickups. Voice 1 is bright and chimey and works well under clean and slight crunch. Voice 2 has a thick and tight tone and a VERY bitey high end/high mid attack. I have them in 2 guitars and love them. And voice 1 of the neck is the perfect clean sound. Not too fond of voice 2, but god I love voice 1 to death.
> 
> Just ordered a KsE set as well. Gonna see how those work out.


How would you compare the Classics to the Duncan Custom SH-5? It sounds like they are both suppose to be PAF based.

I got a new proper set of Moderns. I am not sure when I am going to have time to install them, but looking forward to it.


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## Strobe

Shask said:


> How would you compare the Classics to the Duncan Custom SH-5? It sounds like they are both suppose to be PAF based.
> 
> I got a new proper set of Moderns. I am not sure when I am going to have time to install them, but looking forward to it.



The classics in voice 1 sound a lot more like the SH-14 (custom 5) in voice one. They are a little bit scooped like a PAF is. The top end of the Fishmans is simultaneously a little more sparkly than the SH-14 and a little smoother. Voice two on the neck is also very PAF like, but on the brighter side with a smoothness in the very top end that makes it never get harsh - super fun for leads. They sound more open than the custom, which sounds a little compressed to me. The custom does have a better grind and grit to it under gain than voice one, which brings me to voice 2.

Voice two is a lot closer to the custom sound, although I think a JB is the better comparison. It's got the clarity under gain you get from the custom (well, and then some in my opinion, these are really really clear), but it has more of that JB upper mid hump. It chugs pretty darn well. Voice 2 on the neck feels closest to a Jazz to me, but a Jazz has a tendency to get a little plinky on single notes - this has a fuller base response while retaining plenty of high end. It's also really good for leads and cleans. It's kind of like a single coil with the low end of a hot humbucker. It's super weird, but in a good way.


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## patdavidmusic

I'm so happy people are using this thread, I thought it would be so much easier than millions of thread asking pretty similar things

Here's a video with just the four different tones you can get out of the bridge pickup in a low gain (JTM 45) setting. I don't touch the amp settings just the pickup settings so hopefully you can get a good idea of the variations that are possible just by changing the voices or splitting.


On the first page of the thread there is the neck humbucker with clean tones,

Here's the WAV download for the low gain clips
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pqbbcbuOjTKJD4RdSTvgrY-PvaxRUzmg


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Shask said:


> How would you compare the Classics to the Duncan Custom SH-5? It sounds like they are both suppose to be PAF based.
> 
> I got a new proper set of Moderns. I am not sure when I am going to have time to install them, but looking forward to it.



Voice 1 is on-par with the Sh-5, although brighter and tighter. 
Voice 2 is both brighter, tighter, and has more output and midrange. As said above, it's closer to a JB with more output and a tighter low end.


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## AirForbes1

I've been thinking of getting an Edwards E-LP for ages for when I don't want that active attack/compression of the EMG 57/66 (though, these really do the in-between active/passive thing well) set that's in my ESP Eclipse. But now, I'm leaning towards swapping them out for a Fluence Classic set. I originally thought modern, but HHTJH has convinced me that classic is the way to go.

Can anyone compare voice 2 of the Abasi set to either of the voices on the Classic?


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## LeviathanKiller

*Comparison between the SD Nazgul and Fishman Keith Merrow bridge pickup*

Cable -> Axe-Fx II XL+ -> Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Used a T808 OD boost block, Das Metall amp, and cab block IR is "ML Angle SM57-M160 01". Bass/Mids/Treble/Pres is 5/5/6/4. No settings changed between clips.

*Dirty*
Seymourd Duncan Nazgul: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ud6q2zp8c82ksa2/20180503_122253_nazgul.mp3
Fishman Fluence Keith Merrow (voice 1) : http://www.mediafire.com/file/khaiova1a12b1up/20180503_122521_fishman_km_voice1.mp3

*Comparison between the Seymour Duncan Sentient and Fishman Keith Merrow neck pickup*

Cable -> Axe-Fx II XL+ -> Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Compressor -> Band-Commander amp -> cab IR is "ML Angle SM57-M160 01".
Bass/Mids/Treble/Pres is 3.5/4/6/2.5. No settings changed between clips.

*Clean Clip 1*
Fishman KM Voice 1: http://www.mediafire.com/file/pd794550jl2hdj5/20180503_134734_fishman_km_clean_neck_voice1.mp3
Fishman KM Voice 2: http://www.mediafire.com/file/v2p2pevfkso9n06/20180503_134734_fishman_km_clean_neck_voice2.mp3
SD Sentient: http://www.mediafire.com/file/oxvxhtmh4l03obj/20180503_134734_sentient_clean_neck.mp3

*Clean Clip 2*
Fishman KM Voice 1: http://www.mediafire.com/file/9jnebsgzc4jyase/20180503_135436_fishman_km_clean_neck_voice1.mp3
Fishman KM Voice 2: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2k7ir8cw76id07p/20180503_135436_fishman_km_clean_neck_voice2.mp3
SD Sentient: http://www.mediafire.com/file/r0b33691fzfe7yk/20180503_135436_sentient_clean_neck.mp3
SD Sentient (split): http://www.mediafire.com/file/6a3znsfo4f0czmn/20180503_135436_sentient_clean_neck_split.mp3

These pickup sets are DRASTICALLY different imo. I will save my comments until after some people have listened to the clips and form their own opinions


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## LeviathanKiller

*Comparison between the Seymour Duncan Nazgul and Fishman Keith Merrow bridge pickup*

Last comparison group unless anyone asks for more (something different)
This time with then Kemper profiler

Cable -> Axe-Fx II XL+ -> Kemper -> Axe-Fx return -> Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
T808 OD boost from Axe-Fx -> Kemper with Josh Middleton profile "JTM USA 5909MKII 4" no setting change except +0.5 on gain

Fishman KM Voice 1: http://www.mediafire.com/file/alnzxedc51qvc8m/20180503_143053_fishman_km_dirty_bridge_voice1.mp3
Fishman KM Voice 2: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ho6ly8s607c1sb2/20180503_143053_fishman_km_dirty_bridge_voice2.mp3
SD Nazgul: http://www.mediafire.com/file/7tawa12bdphvkav/20180503_143053_nazgul_dirty.mp3


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## MASS DEFECT

^oh man. it's not even in the same ballpark. the fluence has a lot of "detail"


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## LeviathanKiller

I'm really torn between feeling like "these are too much and don't go with anything else I have" and "these are better than everything else I have"


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sounds like me when I first got me Classics. They were so over the top in the high end. After awhile, I felt like they're perfect for what I want.

Like I said, not helping my GAS.  I was considering the Moderns for an upcoming guitar, but now I might need to get the Merrows.

EDIT: IF the high-end becomes too much, you can solder the HFT pad on the pickups to roll off some of the high end.


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## LeviathanKiller

Disclaimer: I have no clue what I'm doing really so take these with more than one grain of salt. If someone knows what settings and test input I could use that would be more accurate, please let me know.

I ran direct into Reaper and used a frequency analyzer. I did two tests. The first one I strummed all strings open and all strings barred at the 12th fret. The second test was all strings open and barred through frets 1 to 12. I'm not sure which is more accurate. I used a MAX function and a block size of 2048. 4096 seemed to granular in detail but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these screenshots give a good show of the differences or maybe they look too similar. If anyone experienced in audio analysis has any suggestions, please let me know.

Here's a comparison of the Fishman Fluence Keith Merrow, Seymour Duncan Nazgul, Bare Knuckle Juggernaut, and Bare Knuckle Aftermath. All are bridge pickups of course.


FF KM is in Schecter KM7-MKII made of swamp ash with ebony fretboard, 26.5" scale
SD Nazgul is in Schecter KM7-MKII made of swamp ash with ebony fretboard, 26.5" scale
BKP Juggernaut is in Agile Septor Pro 727 made of mahogany with ebony fretboard, 27" scale
BKP Aftermath is in Agile Intrepid Pro 728 made of mahogany with ebony fretboard, 28.625" scale


*Test 1 (playing all strings open and then all strings barred at 12th)
*
FF KM voice 1






FF KM voice 2





SD Nazgul





BKP Juggernaut





BKP Aftermath






*Test 2 (playing all strings open + barred from fret 1 through 12)
*
FF KM voice 1





FF KM voice 2





SD Nazgul





BKP Juggernaut





BKP Aftermath


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## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds like me when I first got me Classics. They were so over the top in the high end. After awhile, I felt like they're perfect for what I want.
> 
> Like I said, not helping my GAS.  I was considering the Moderns for an upcoming guitar, but now I might need to get the Merrows.
> 
> EDIT: IF the high-end becomes too much, you can solder the HFT pad on the pickups to roll off some of the high end.



I might do that. I'm going to test out some EQ filtering in my Axe-Fx first.


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## patdavidmusic

LeviathanKiller said:


> I might do that. I'm going to test out some EQ filtering in my Axe-Fx first.


Holy cow dude, amazing work!
I really appreciate all the effort you put in, I'm certainly keen to try the merrows next up for sure


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## lewis

how does the Modern set compare to the high end Bareknuckle sets?

Like Moderns vs Blackhawks?
Or Modernvs vs Impulse etc etc?

Thinking changing everything over to Bareknuckles but the Fishmans still peak my curiosity and it could be cool to have them in at least 1 guitar. Just wondered if it would be worth it? Or if just getting everything Bareknuckle would still make more sense?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> how does the Modern set compare to the high end Bareknuckle sets?
> 
> Like Moderns vs Blackhawks?
> Or Modernvs vs Impulse etc etc?
> 
> Thinking changing everything over to Bareknuckles but the Fishmans still peak my curiosity and it could be cool to have them in at least 1 guitar. Just wondered if it would be worth it? Or if just getting everything Bareknuckle would still make more sense?



Never tried BKPs, so take my word with a huge grain of salt.  Going by how people describe BKPs. 

Voice 1: Blackhawks or Aftermath
Voice 2: C-pig

V1 of the Moderns is more of an EMG flavor than BKP flavor. And the V2 of the Moderns is lots of low end and treble, which most likely would be a ceramic Warpig. Another pickup I'd compare it with I'd HAVE tried is the Bill Lawrence (Bill & Becky/Wilde to be specific) L500XL.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

lewis said:


> how does the Modern set compare to the high end Bareknuckle sets?
> 
> Like Moderns vs Blackhawks?
> Or Modernvs vs Impulse etc etc?
> 
> Thinking changing everything over to Bareknuckles but the Fishmans still peak my curiosity and it could be cool to have them in at least 1 guitar. Just wondered if it would be worth it? Or if just getting everything Bareknuckle would still make more sense?



Getting these pickups hasn't changed my plans on getting a BKP Impulse set for my Intrepid Pro 728 and I don't regret just making the choice to purchase a set of Guitarmory Red Stone pickups yet either. These Fishman KMs are just different.

I don't feel like they play the same way my Bare Knuckle, Seymour Duncan, or any of my other brands of pickups do. If it were possible to reach a place where you have too much clarity, I'd say these pickups are maybe a step in that direction.  These feel and sound a bit dryer than other pickups I have. The pronounced upper mids are partly why I'm sure and they seem wah-like at times (moreso than the BKP Juggernauts imo). No matter what voicing, these still feel like active pickups to me because the compression and dynamics are not the same as any of the passive pickups I own. I'd say the dynamics/compression are even a bit better on the Seymour Duncan Blackouts but the Fishman's clarity is miles beyond those. I don't like low gain stuff that much with these to be honest. I know without a doubt that they're better than the EMG 81/85 set I've owned in the past though. Voice 2 on the neck pickup is similar to the SD Sentient but the Sentient has more dynamic range and a nice compression when picking hard. The FF KM doesn't have the same amount of range or compression. That's the trait they have that makes them great at string-to-string volume/response. All of these observations are made just on the Keith Merrow set though.

EDIT: I should mention I'm not really surprised these have a lot of upper mids given the voicing that the Nazgul had which was basically Keith's signature pickup. I'm just surprised he went with something that kept _that much_ upper mids (if not more) when he switched to Fishman.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I'd really like to try either the Modern, or Classic sets. Does anyone have experience with both that can describe the differences? I'd really like a set with less upper mids or more lower mids.


----------



## cip 123

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Never tried BKPs, so take my word with a huge grain of salt.  Going by how people describe BKPs.
> 
> Voice 1: Blackhawks or Aftermath
> Voice 2: C-pig
> 
> V1 of the Moderns is more of an EMG flavor than BKP flavor. And the V2 of the Moderns is lots of low end and treble, which most likely would be a ceramic Warpig. Another pickup I'd compare it with I'd HAVE tried is the Bill Lawrence (Bill & Becky/Wilde to be specific) L500XL.



Absolutely not the case.

Fluence are way more low mid focused than the aftermath, it doesn't have the shrill ear piercing tone of the aftermath. Don't know how it compares to the blackhawks.

Again C-Pig no, voice two is not as high gain as them. I don't really know how to describe voice 2 it's a nice sound. Not so much lower output but it reacts differently than voice 1.

IMO I wouldn't compare them to BKP, and they sound different than active EMG's. Best way to tell is to try them out yourself. I just had to state that I don't think they sound anything like those BKP pups.


----------



## Strobe

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'd really like to try either the Modern, or Classic sets. Does anyone have experience with both that can describe the differences? I'd really like a set with less upper mids or more lower mids.



You are definitely looking for the modern. They have a lot more lower mids and lows. Classics have a lot of mids to upper mids and are quite bright. I own both.


----------



## TheShade0110

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'd really like to try either the Modern, or Classic sets. Does anyone have experience with both that can describe the differences? I'd really like a set with less upper mids or more lower mids.



The Tosin set also has more low end than the moderns and are also quite a bit more versatile(which imo is usually the reason you want Fishmans).


----------



## patdavidmusic

I find it really hard to compare them to anything else,
for me the speed and clarity of the pickups is something I have never personally experienced before

I couldn't find anyone local in oz that had them so I had to order without trying them out but I am so glad I did, 

If you can find a store even if it takes an afternoon to drive out to test them definitely do, they are so unique to play, eq sheets will only give you a tiny snapshot of the experience


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Strobe said:


> You are definitely looking for the modern. They have a lot more lower mids and lows. Classics have a lot of mids to upper mids and are quite bright. I own both.





TheShade0110 said:


> The Tosin set also has more low end than the moderns and are also quite a bit more versatile(which imo is usually the reason you want Fishmans).



I will shy away from the classics then and look at getting the Modern set or Tosin set in the future. I like that the Tosin has the single-coil voicing I just wasn't sure if it was a bright set.



patdavidmusic said:


> I find it really hard to compare them to anything else,
> for me the *speed *and clarity of the pickups is something I have never personally experienced before
> 
> I couldn't find anyone local in oz that had them so I had to order without trying them out but I am so glad I did,
> 
> If you can find a store even if it takes an afternoon to drive out to test them definitely do, they are so unique to play, eq sheets will only give you a tiny snapshot of the experience



Dude, I almost mentioned this in each one of my posts about them so far but I thought "_Speed? That's crazy. People don't mention speed when talking about pickups._" 
But yeah, I can't describe that feeling any other way! There's no sluggish-ness when playing them. It's really hard to describe but it's amazing.
And yes, clips and EQ sheets and everything are nice to let you know the sound of these but the way they play truly is a different experience that you won't understand until you play them.


----------



## patdavidmusic

LeviathanKiller said:


> I will shy away from the classics then and look at getting the Modern set or Tosin set in the future. I like that the Tosin has the single-coil voicing I just wasn't sure if it was a bright set.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I almost mentioned this in each one of my posts about them so far but I thought "_Speed? That's crazy. People don't mention speed when talking about pickups._"
> But yeah, I can't describe that feeling any other way! There's no sluggish-ness when playing them. It's really hard to describe but it's amazing.
> And yes, clips and EQ sheets and everything are nice to let you know the sound of these but the way they play truly is a different experience that you won't understand until you play them.



That's the best word I could think of to describe them the attack is the fastest I have every felt, 

I should mention if anyone is in Melbourne, Australia you can certainly check out the guitar if you like


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

I extend the same invitation from Antarctic Outpost 61.


----------



## Albake21

So I've been wanting to do a quick write up as I just received my Modern 7s and installed them into my new Mayo Duvell 7 a couple days ago. I've been searching for a certain pickup for a long time now, and I can honestly say, I believe that journey has come to a close. These pickups are just absolutely incredible feeling and sounding. They absolutely live up to the hype! By far their strongest point is the clarity. This is something that is super important to me when it comes to playing 7 string. As someone who uses all 7 strings to create huge chords, I can't ask for a better set up pickups. Now the problem with most pickups I've used are the trade offs. Every pickup that had good clarity, lacked bass and the growl/balls. Voice 1 of the moderns have such amazing growl to them while not losing any clarity. I also bought a 4 pack of rechargeable 9V batteries so I don't have to worry about that anymore (was always a pain with my EMGs). If anyone has any questions for me, let me know.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> So I've been wanting to do a quick write up as I just received my Modern 7s and installed them into my new Mayo Duvell 7 a couple days ago. I've been searching for a certain pickup for a long time now, and I can honestly say, I believe that journey has come to a close. These pickups are just absolutely incredible feeling and sounding. They absolutely live up to the hype! By far their strongest point is the clarity. This is something that is super important to me when it comes to playing 7 string. As someone who uses all 7 strings to create huge chords, I can't ask for a better set up pickups. Now the problem with most pickups I've used are the trade offs. Every pickup that had good clarity, lacked bass and the growl/balls. Voice 1 of the moderns have such amazing growl to them while not losing any clarity. I also bought a 4 pack of rechargeable 9V batteries so I don't have to worry about that anymore (was always a pain with my EMGs). If anyone has any questions for me, let me know.



Would you care to record and drop a link for a DI track for us (me)?


----------



## Albake21

LeviathanKiller said:


> Would you care to record and drop a link for a DI track for us (me)?


Sure thing!


----------



## Albake21

Here you go. To be honest, I have never recorded a DI before so I just recorded a dry signal from me Axe FX through my interface. Sorry for my horrible playing, I just quickly recorded some riffs from a new song I'm writing. I only have access to Voices 1 and for now but I'm going to install a mini toggle eventually to enable Voice 3.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/521rwbuaoidxgx6/Fishman Modern 7.rar

For those curious, this is my Mayones Duvell 7 (NGD in my sig) tuned to Drop G#


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> Here you go. To be honest, I have never recorded a DI before so I just recorded a dry signal from me Axe FX through my interface. Sorry for my horrible playing, I just quickly recorded some riffs from a new song I'm writing. I only have access to Voices 1 and for now but I'm going to install a mini toggle eventually to enable Voice 3.
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/521rwbuaoidxgx6/Fishman Modern 7.rar
> 
> For those curious, this is my Mayones Duvell 7 (NGD in my sig) tuned to Drop G#



Thanks man!
Yeah, it seems the Moderns are more balanced than my KM set. Not as harsh in the high end and they have more/better bottom end.

I made DIs kinda similar to yours. I used the same tuning on my top 3 strings for the bridge DIs.
I took the liberty of renaming your files the same way I named mine so people can load them up in a player side-by-side and know which is which. I also re-uploaded them to MediaFire along with mine because I try to never delete anything there that I share on SS.org. I put a read me in your zip and mine as well giving credit and indicating the guitars, their specs, tuning, and recording method as well.

Fishman Fluence Keith Merrow 7 set DI tracks
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vheq39yc8w3rh2n/Fishman_Keith_Merrow_7_DI_tracks.zip

Fishman Fluence Modern 7 set DI tracks (courtesy of Albake21)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4ms1qs0h1yxi6mp/Fishman_Modern_7_DI_tracks.zip

Note: For anyone find themselves here via search, if these links don't work, feel free to message me and I can get them to you.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Are you saying the KM set neck is harsher in the high end?? I was considering trying them, but if thats the case, I dont think I would. My issue with the Modern set is mainly with the neck pickup, just being kinda "average" - and maybe its because I'm used to such rounded-glassy neck pickups (my fav is Liquifire and Air Norton) - the Modern is like most BKP's for me, in that I dont really dig it. I was considering trying the Classic once the open core 7s come out, but I still doubt it will solve that area for me to get a Liquifire-like sound.

Sounds like the Tosin's special voice 3 might have been the trick, but EMG sized housing for 7 strings kinda kills that for me.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

SnowfaLL said:


> Are you saying the KM set neck is harsher in the high end?? I was considering trying them, but if thats the case, I dont think I would. My issue with the Modern set is mainly with the neck pickup, just being kinda "average" - and maybe its because I'm used to such rounded-glassy neck pickups (my fav is Liquifire and Air Norton) - the Modern is like most BKP's for me, in that I dont really dig it. I was considering trying the Classic once the open core 7s come out, but I still doubt it will solve that area for me to get a Liquifire-like sound.
> 
> Sounds like the Tosin's special voice 3 might have been the trick, but EMG sized housing for 7 strings kinda kills that for me.



This is news to me as well but if you examine the product description on Musician's Friend or this release article it implies that only the bridge pickup is actually "Keith customized" and it is customized off of the Classic bridge. Meanwhile, the neck is just a stock Open Core Classic. 

_"When combined with the *Classic Open Core neck pickup*, Keith’s custom bridge pickup delivers an incredibly versatile range of tones for the modern guitarist."_

Keith Merrow (KM) neck / Open Core Classic (OCC) neck - voice 1 is fairly dark imo. I greatly prefer voice 2 which was described in the product information as "A Fluence-exclusive neck tone, with unreal highs, vocal midrange, and tight lows.". So nothing special in contrast to the other sets there. When I talk about this pickup set without specifying bridge or neck, it's _usually_ the bridge I'm talking about.

The Seymour Duncan Sentient neck is brighter than voice 1, but the KM/OCC set neck voice 2 may be ever so slightly brighter than the Sentient.
voice 1 < Sentient <= voice2 in terms of brightness

And to think I almost purchased a set of Classics. That would've been a mistake since the neck pickups are the same and the bridges are close too.


----------



## Strobe

@SnowfaLL Honestly, the Keith Merrow set sounds fairly close the the classic set to me. The classics are very bright, but I wouldn't call them harsh, they stop short of that. Based on the audio files that @LeviathanKiller linked earlier, it sounds the same. To my ears, it's just very bright. I have usually gravitated towards bright pickups - I find you can almost always dial it out at the amp, whereas it's harder to make a dark pickup much brighter.

Based on what you said about wanting a smooth neck pickup, I think the Tosin set might actually be better for you. It feels smoother to me on the neck compared to the moderns (I own both - actually, I own like 5 different sets of these, which is why I comment a lot on these threads). In my opinion, the moderns have a little bit of an edge for staccato rifffing (a little more grind), bu the Tosins feel more even to me, and I like them better for leads - they feel thicker. Both are heavy on the low mids. Just the Tosin set has a little more lower mids, and a little bit less of an upper mid spike. Both still have a lot of highs.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Strobe said:


> @SnowfaLL Honestly, the Keith Merrow set sounds fairly close the the classic set to me. The classics are very bright, but I wouldn't call them harsh, they stop short of that. Based on the audio files that @LeviathanKiller linked earlier, it sounds the same. To my ears, it's just very bright. I have usually gravitated towards bright pickups - I find you can almost always dial it out at the amp, whereas it's harder to make a dark pickup much brighter.
> 
> Based on what you said about wanting a smooth neck pickup, I think the Tosin set might actually be better for you. It feels smoother to me on the neck compared to the moderns (I own both - actually, I own like 5 different sets of these, which is why I comment a lot on these threads). In my opinion, the moderns have a little bit of an edge for staccato rifffing (a little more grind), bu the Tosins feel more even to me, and I like them better for leads - they feel thicker. Both are heavy on the low mids. Just the Tosin set has a little more lower mids, and a little bit less of an upper mid spike. Both still have a lot of highs.



I just edited my post to include info about the set which apparently says that half of it actually is the same as the Classic set and the bridge is only slightly modified anyway.
So it's no surprise they're so similar!

I'm probably going to get the new Schecter SLS C-7 that comes with Moderns installed. I'll swap them out for the Tosin set if those aren't to my liking. If I decide the Merrow set is still worth keeping in conjunction with whatever ends up staying in the SLS C-7, then good deal, otherwise I'll either take them and the electronics out and just put some kind of passive set in that guitar or I'll just return the guitar and buy the old Nazgul/Sentient equipped one for $450 less and do a swap from there.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Strobe said:


> @SnowfaLL Honestly, the Keith Merrow set sounds fairly close the the classic set to me. The classics are very bright, but I wouldn't call them harsh, they stop short of that. Based on the audio files that @LeviathanKiller linked earlier, it sounds the same. To my ears, it's just very bright. I have usually gravitated towards bright pickups - I find you can almost always dial it out at the amp, whereas it's harder to make a dark pickup much brighter.
> 
> Based on what you said about wanting a smooth neck pickup, I think the Tosin set might actually be better for you. It feels smoother to me on the neck compared to the moderns (I own both - actually, I own like 5 different sets of these, which is why I comment a lot on these threads). In my opinion, the moderns have a little bit of an edge for staccato rifffing (a little more grind), bu the Tosins feel more even to me, and I like them better for leads - they feel thicker. Both are heavy on the low mids. Just the Tosin set has a little more lower mids, and a little bit less of an upper mid spike. Both still have a lot of highs.



Unfortunately the Tosin 7 set doesnt come in passive housing size for my Aristides... think I'm boned on that one. I might give the classics a try again (or maybe the HSS set for my strat, which right now has EMG 85/S/S that i'm iffy on) but hmm.. Maybe in time more sets with different EQ curves will come out.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

SnowfaLL said:


> Unfortunately the Tosin 7 set doesnt come in passive housing size for my Aristides... think I'm boned on that one. I might give the classics a try again (or maybe the HSS set for my strat, which right now has EMG 85/S/S that i'm iffy on) but hmm.. Maybe in time more sets with different EQ curves will come out.



Yeah, they really need to go and make the previous sets available in the open coil formats.
That's why I'm going to have to buy another guitar to try the Moderns instead of just purchasing a set and swapping.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I also wonder about the single coils, anyone try them?? If I could get an EMG SA or SSL-5 type sound from the neck single, I'd probably give it another try (the modern bridge worked well enough for me.. it was the neck that really let me down, and I play mostly on my neck for every non-metal)


----------



## Strobe

SnowfaLL said:


> I also wonder about the single coils, anyone try them?? If I could get an EMG SA or SSL-5 type sound from the neck single, I'd probably give it another try (the modern bridge worked well enough for me.. it was the neck that really let me down, and I play mostly on my neck for every non-metal)



I own both sets. Strat set does not really sound like actives. Voice 1 is kind of like fat 50's set that used to come on Fender American standard. Voice 2 is a dead ringer for Texas specials. Both have a little bit more sparkly top end than most strat pickups. Very good overall. Most videos do not do them justice. Tele set I am less impressed with but still quite good. Voice 1 and 2 could be more different in my opinion. The videos on YouTube are actually a pretty good representation for the tell set, unlike the strat set.


----------



## Albake21

LeviathanKiller said:


> Thanks man!
> Yeah, it seems the Moderns are more balanced than my KM set. Not as harsh in the high end and they have more/better bottom end.
> 
> I made DIs kinda similar to yours. I used the same tuning on my top 3 strings for the bridge DIs.
> I took the liberty of renaming your files the same way I named mine so people can load them up in a player side-by-side and know which is which. I also re-uploaded them to MediaFire along with mine because I try to never delete anything there that I share on SS.org. I put a read me in your zip and mine as well giving credit and indicating the guitars, their specs, tuning, and recording method as well.
> 
> Fishman Fluence Keith Merrow 7 set DI tracks
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/vheq39yc8w3rh2n/Fishman_Keith_Merrow_7_DI_tracks.zip
> 
> Fishman Fluence Modern 7 set DI tracks (courtesy of Albake21)
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/4ms1qs0h1yxi6mp/Fishman_Modern_7_DI_tracks.zip
> 
> Note: For anyone find themselves here via search, if these links don't work, feel free to message me and I can get them to you.


No problem at all, glad to help!


----------



## patdavidmusic

Any users of the new open core classics or the keith merrow set,
Just a quick question,

Does either set when in single coil mode use in outside coils?
-i know you can set it to either, but just wondering if the offical voiced single coil is the inner or outer on the set-

Thanks lads \m/


----------



## LeviathanKiller

patdavidmusic said:


> Any users of the new open core classics or the keith merrow set,
> Just a quick question,
> 
> Does either set when in single coil mode use in outside coils?
> -i know you can set it to either, but just wondering if the offical voiced single coil is the inner or outer on the set-
> 
> Thanks lads \m/



I think I'm one of the few people that have the KM set right now. Unfortunately, I don't know because I don't have a toggle switch for voicing 3 yet.
I would send a message directly to Fishman if I were you though regardless of what anyone says on here.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Anyone here using the Fluence Moderns (the regular moderns) with the coil splits? I'm debating on adding them to my Modern-loaded V.


----------



## Albake21

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Anyone here using the Fluence Moderns (the regular moderns) with the coil splits? I'm debating on adding them to my Modern-loaded V.


Not yet, but I do plan on adding a three way mini toggle eventually to switch between all three voices.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Albake21 said:


> Not yet, but I do plan on adding a three way mini toggle eventually to switch between all three voices.



Exactly what I plan on doing.  just bought a set of 3-way mini toggles to try it out. I'd imagine they're not as true single-coil sounding as the Abasi, KsE, or Open Core pickups, but I'm betting they'll sound good.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Does the soapbar Modern 7 set have the coil-split options?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

LeviathanKiller said:


> Does the soapbar Modern 7 set have the coil-split options?



Holy crap they don't seem to. What's the point of that?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Holy crap they don't seem to. What's the point of that?


That's what I thought. I bought the guitar that came with them knowing that so no disappointment there but yeah, why don't they?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

LeviathanKiller said:


> That's what I thought. I bought the guitar that came with them knowing that so no disappointment there but yeah, why don't they?



I did some snooping and none of the ERG ones have them. That's pretty shitty. 

I mean it's not much of a problem since I got the 6 string set, but I possibly planned on getting the 7-string set, so it's a bummer.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I did some snooping and none of the ERG ones have them. That's pretty shitty.
> 
> I mean it's not much of a problem since I got the 6 string set, but I possibly planned on getting the 7-string set, so it's a bummer.



Guess that's what the Tosin, Keith Merrow, and Open Core Classic sets are for haha


----------



## Emperoff

They said that they WILL update the older models to accomodate the coil split feature as well. Give them some time 

Meanwhile, I just want to put passives in all my guitars


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Emperoff said:


> They said that they WILL update the older models to accomodate the coil split feature as well. Give them some time
> 
> Meanwhile, I just want to put passives in all my guitars



Doesn't matter unless they call me up and say they want to update the sets in my guitars for me.


----------



## Emperoff

Well, that's kinda what you get with company that sells guitar pickups that get upgraded regularly like a videogame. It's cool they care to improve, but it sucks for previous owners


----------



## Albake21

Wow I never noticed the 7 string Moderns didn't have a Voice 3! Well I'm glad I never drilled into my new Mayones with a mini toggle only to not be able to use it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

That sucks. I was looking to buy a soapbar Modern 7 for my COW 7, hoping i can get nice single coil clean tones out of my one trick axe. Oh well.


----------



## Albake21

MASS DEFECT said:


> That sucks. I was looking to buy a soapbar Modern 7 for my COW 7, hoping i can get nice single coil clean tones out of my one trick axe. Oh well.


Well actually I kind of take it back. There isn't a voice 3, but there is a wire still for a "coil tap"


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> Well actually I kind of take it back. There isn't a voice 3, but there is a wire still for a "coil tap"



O RLY?
* breathing intensifies *


----------



## Quiet Coil

LeviathanKiller said:


> O RLY?
> * breathing intensifies *


If all else fails there’s always the EMG 707TWX-R (or the “regular” 707TW-R version). I’ve got the X in my single pickup DCM100 and I’m pretty happy with it, love the single coil tones from EMG (plus I already have Moderns in my 2228 and I’m OCD about having the same brand of pickups in any two guitars).

I can confirm that the Fishman Moderns have a solid split coil tone. I’m actually hesitant to try any of the signature Fishman pickups because I prefer the HF tilt to be engaged (most of the sig pups don’t have this feature).


----------



## Albake21

Noisy Humbucker said:


> If all else fails there’s always the EMG 707TWX-R (or the “regular” 707TW-R version). I’ve got the X in my single pickup DCM100 and I’m pretty happy with it, love the single coil tones from EMG (plus I already have Moderns in my 2228 and I’m OCD about having the same brand of pickups in any two guitars).
> 
> I can confirm that the Fishman Moderns have a solid split coil tone. I’m actually hesitant to try any of the signature Fishman pickups because I prefer the HF tilt to be engaged (most of the sig pups don’t have this feature).


I'm debating on adding the HF tilt, it just makes it darker, correct?


----------



## Quiet Coil

Albake21 said:


> I'm debating on adding the HF tilt, it just makes it darker, correct?


I never really looked at it that way, but yeah. To me it just makes them sound more like normal pickups, the crisp high-end sparkle is somewhat unpleasant to my already damaged ears.

EDIT: That’s just me though, pretty sure that characteristic is what draws most people to them.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> I'm debating on adding the HF tilt, it just makes it darker, correct?



Pretty much. I have seen it mentioned that you can actually wire that up to a knob therefore giving you a HF blend.


----------



## frank falbo

Yeah it’s basically the equivalent of cable loss on a passive pickup. So some people think their wireless or a buffer first thing on their board restores the true sound of their passives and makes them “brighter”, and that’s a good thing for them. For those people they usually won’t prefer the HF Tilt on. Those that like longer cables and rounder highs will like it on. 

You’re correct that on some signature pickups, the tone is dialed in to exactly what the artist wanted. Someone like Keith Merrow does like that passive warmer top end, and so that’s part of the overall sound, which is arrived at by a combination of the magnetic field manipulation and the voicing circuitry working together. 

But take the PAF Voice on the Classics for example, the stock setting is the ideal sound, with a short (or no) cable. The HF Tilt would be for people who like PAF’s into 15-20’ of cable.


----------



## Masoo2

I haven't been keeping up with Fishman as much as I probably should be, is there any sort of ETA on the commercial release for the Keith Merrow pickups?

I'm stuck right now trying to figure out which 8 string set works for me and I'm wanting to push off my decision until some people get around to purchasing the 8 string Merrows and give their comparative reviews on them.

I guess for right now, does anyone here have experience with both the Moderns and Abasis on 8 strings? I'm looking for a very versatile set (single coil/coil splitting) but with the ability to have that overly compressed and brickwalled sound of deathcore/beatdown in one of the voices. My gut is telling me the Moderns will be closer to what I'm looking for with regards to the compressed deathcore sound, but this video () seems to prove that the Abasis can do it just fine. (timestamp: 1:13)

Should I just go Abasi so I can get access to voice 3? That's _the_ clean tone I'm looking for and I'm sure it would pair outstanding with lower gain tones as well. How do you guys feel the Merrow set would fall into my needs?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Keith Merrows are still slated for the 16th, which is today. I guess it should be soon, hopefully.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Masoo2 said:


> I haven't been keeping up with Fishman as much as I probably should be, is there any sort of ETA on the commercial release for the Keith Merrow pickups?
> 
> I'm stuck right now trying to figure out which 8 string set works for me and I'm wanting to push off my decision until some people get around to purchasing the 8 string Merrows and give their comparative reviews on them.
> 
> I guess for right now, does anyone here have experience with both the Moderns and Abasis on 8 strings? I'm looking for a very versatile set (single coil/coil splitting) but with the ability to have that overly compressed and brickwalled sound of deathcore/beatdown in one of the voices. My gut is telling me the Moderns will be closer to what I'm looking for with regards to the compressed deathcore sound, but this video () seems to prove that the Abasis can do it just fine. (timestamp: 1:13)
> 
> Should I just go Abasi so I can get access to voice 3? That's _the_ clean tone I'm looking for and I'm sure it would pair outstanding with lower gain tones as well. How do you guys feel the Merrow set would fall into my needs?




I have a good feeling that the Tosin Abasi set is more versatile. There's very little difference in voice 1 and 2 on the bridge for the Keith Merrow set


----------



## SnowfaLL

I gave the Moderns a 2nd install in my Aristides and this time, so far I'm liking it much more.. I installed the HF Tilt on both this time, and the Low gain on the neck - seems to have solved a bit of the ice-pickiness with the neck pickup I've had before. My wiring is a mess though, fuck I hate soldering. The metal tones are pretty good though, just very metallic (81 like) but the neck rhythm and leads especially now are amazingly smooth. Think I like the neck pickup for rhythm more than the bridge! Jury is still out on the cleans, gotta do a few more hours of testing but I do think its above average, maybe in my top 5 now (Air norton, Liquifire, Duncan jazz, EMG SA) - I think the Fluences will live in the Aristides from now on.

I am still very curious on the new open core Classics... that voice 3 singlecoil tone mmm might really fix this Aristides for me. Although I might try it on my Carvin ST300 first, if I can find a set. I hate buying new pickups though, and the value you lose when you go to sell them =[


----------



## Flappydoodle

Masoo2 said:


> I haven't been keeping up with Fishman as much as I probably should be, is there any sort of ETA on the commercial release for the Keith Merrow pickups?
> 
> I'm stuck right now trying to figure out which 8 string set works for me and I'm wanting to push off my decision until some people get around to purchasing the 8 string Merrows and give their comparative reviews on them.
> 
> I guess for right now, does anyone here have experience with both the Moderns and Abasis on 8 strings? I'm looking for a very versatile set (single coil/coil splitting) but with the ability to have that overly compressed and brickwalled sound of deathcore/beatdown in one of the voices. My gut is telling me the Moderns will be closer to what I'm looking for with regards to the compressed deathcore sound, but this video () seems to prove that the Abasis can do it just fine. (timestamp: 1:13)
> 
> Should I just go Abasi so I can get access to voice 3? That's _the_ clean tone I'm looking for and I'm sure it would pair outstanding with lower gain tones as well. How do you guys feel the Merrow set would fall into my needs?




In my opinion, they can ALL do it. The differences between each set are fairly subtle.

The modern ceramic voice 1 is essentially an EMG81. Alnico is a bit chunkier and warmer, but it's like turning the resonance/depth knob on your amp up a tiny bit and the presence down a tiny bit - not a huge deal.

If you want THAT clean tone, then just get the Abasi set.

The Merrow set is newer, but that doesn't mean it's better.


----------



## Albake21

Flappydoodle said:


> In my opinion, they can ALL do it. The differences between each set are fairly subtle.
> 
> The modern ceramic voice 1 is essentially an EMG81. Alnico is a bit chunkier and warmer, but it's like turning the resonance/depth knob on your amp up a tiny bit and the presence down a tiny bit - not a huge deal.
> 
> If you want THAT clean tone, then just get the Abasi set.
> 
> The Merrow set is newer, but that doesn't mean it's better.


Have you owned both a Modern and EMG 81? I played an 81 for a couple of years and just recently installed Moderns trying both a ceramic and alnico version and they are absolutely nothing like any EMG. Both feel and tone is night and day compared to an EMG 81. The Fishmans have way more note clarity and overall less muddy tone compared to EMGs.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Albake21 said:


> Have you owned both a Modern and EMG 81? I played an 81 for a couple of years and just recently installed Moderns trying both a ceramic and alnico version and they are absolutely nothing like any EMG. Both feel and tone is night and day compared to an EMG 81. The Fishmans have way more note clarity and overall less muddy tone compared to EMGs.



Yes I have, but in different guitars. Can't say I've ever found the EMG81 to be muddy though (at least not the 6 string version). Bridge position in a Les Paul and it's like razor sharp, shitloads of attack and super tight bass - no mud whatsoever.

I'm sure I've even seen the Fishman reps on Youtube saying things like "your traditional active pickup tone", which obviously refers to EMG81.

That said, the guy I replied to is asking about the 8 string set, which I've never used (neither EMG nor any Fishmans). I should have mentioned that. Maybe an EMG is muddy down that low - I'm not sure.


----------



## Albake21

Flappydoodle said:


> Yes I have, but in different guitars. Can't say I've ever found the EMG81 to be muddy though (at least not the 6 string version). Bridge position in a Les Paul and it's like razor sharp, shitloads of attack and super tight bass - no mud whatsoever.
> 
> I'm sure I've even seen the Fishman reps on Youtube saying things like "your traditional active pickup tone", which obviously refers to EMG81.
> 
> That said, the guy I replied to is asking about the 8 string set, which I've never used (neither EMG nor any Fishmans). I should have mentioned that. Maybe an EMG is muddy down that low - I'm not sure.


Well I will say that the higher the tuning, the better the 81 sounded. It sounded fantastic for standard/Drop D and even a half step down. Once I lowered more than that, it just sounded too muddy to my ears. I'd be curious to giving EMG another shot in the future though as they are pretty cheap and super easy to install.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Albake21 said:


> Well I will say that the higher the tuning, the better the 81 sounded. It sounded fantastic for standard/Drop D and even a half step down. Once I lowered more than that, it just sounded too muddy to my ears. I'd be curious to giving EMG another shot in the future though as they are pretty cheap and super easy to install.



I know we're all excited by Fishman being this new, exciting technology (and they are awesome) - but it's not like the EMG81 doesn't have a super long history of being used in all sorts of tunings, for many of the greatest metal recordings in history. In Flames play down to drop A, Machine Head, drop B, Trivium drop Ab. And I just realised - they all play Gibson, shorter scale length, tune-o-matic bridges along with the EMG81... maybe we're onto something!


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

I’m learning!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Flappydoodle said:


> I know we're all excited by Fishman being this new, exciting technology (and they are awesome) - but it's not like the EMG81 doesn't have a super long history of being used in all sorts of tunings, for many of the greatest metal recordings in history. In Flames play down to drop A, Machine Head, drop B, Trivium drop Ab. And I just realised - they all play Gibson, shorter scale length, tune-o-matic bridges along with the EMG81... maybe we're onto something!



Machine head actually uses either 25.5'' or 27'' guitars.


----------



## lewis

I mean im more of the opinion that if you want a super huge, consistent live tone then EMGs are still great for low tuned metal. 

its when you are talking about recordings and albums now where people start to get really particular about tones and needs.

For me, an EMG equipped live guitar (unless you want super dynamic tones) but other guitars with high end passives for studio, would be the best of both worlds. (WITHOUT upgrading to Fishman - otherwise their approach now would be the best approach)


----------



## zilla

I finally had some time last week to install a set of Moderns that have been sitting on my desk since February.

I used a super switch to allow me to get: Bridge, Bridge + neck split, Bridge + neck, bridge split + neck, and Neck.

I haven't had time to play much. they were replacing a set of EMG 81/85s. my biggest complaint about EMGS was the lack of ability to split the coils. I'm sure that these will sound amazing once I get a chance to play them.

One thing I'm still trying to figure out is how to drill the hole to run a wire the ground the bridge. I don't have a bit long enough at the moment and the routes are kind of awkward for me to get my drill in at the right angle.


----------



## setsuna7

MASS DEFECT said:


> That sucks. I was looking to buy a soapbar Modern 7 for my COW 7, hoping i can get nice single coil clean tones out of my one trick axe. Oh well.


Dude, you can spilt them coils. might wanna drill an xtra hole for a mini toggle to the split for your COW.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Well I was actually checking out pictures of the Fluences, and yes, even the soapbar Modern 7's CAN be coil-tapped. Y


----------



## Kyle Jordan

frank falbo said:


> You’re correct that on some signature pickups, the tone is dialed in to exactly what the artist wanted. Someone like Keith Merrow does like that passive warmer top end, and so that’s part of the overall sound, which is arrived at by a combination of the magnetic field manipulation and the voicing circuitry working together.
> 
> But take the PAF Voice on the Classics for example, the stock setting is the ideal sound, with a short (or no) cable. The HF Tilt would be for people who like PAF’s into 15-20’ of cable.



Hmm. That gives me slight pause on the Merrow set. Does the warmer top end carry over to the Voice 3/Single Coil tone on the Merrow set?

One of the things I fell in love with on the 6 string Classics is the "immediacy" the highs had. I usually boost some highs slightly with an EQ pedal before the amp when using passive buckers.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Kyle Jordan said:


> Hmm. That gives me slight pause on the Merrow set. Does the warmer top end carry over to the Voice 3/Single Coil tone on the Merrow set?
> 
> One of the things I fell in love with on the 6 string Classics is the "immediacy" the highs had. I usually boost some highs slightly with an EQ pedal before the amp when using passive buckers.



As an owner of the KM set, I feel that they have _plenty _of highs
I wish I could tell you for certain that this carries over to the single coil but I don't have access to that voicing yet. I have a good feeling though that the high end doesn't roll off.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Hey lads,
A quick new test showing the single coil tones from the Devin Fishman set,
Here's the video


Or here's the wav
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cuQ8L5acBVTYMOZyGze5wciO8-43ceDQ

The three guitars in the shoot out is a MusicMan Cutlass, Schecter Keith Merrow MK2 and Sterling Valentine with the Devin set, can you pick which is which?


----------



## Cheap

Threw a new set of strings on and dialed in such a great clean sound I had to put together a little video for the Devin Townsend set. This set, to me, is the totally underrated dark horse of the Fluence line


----------



## Humanoid

The Modern set was clearly not for me. I'm used to DiMarzio Evolution kind of sound, and it has a sparkling upper mids but the sound is still chunky. With Modern set the highs were too crunchy, like there's always a tiny distortion there. I couldn't get it off. Passive mode helped a bit of course but then the output was too low. It would be nice to know if some other model is somewhere between the passive mode and active mode without the distortion in the higher frequencies.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I ordered a Classic Open Core 7 string set (at L&M for any Canadians - they are taking orders now) and hoping it'll work for me. I do like the Modern set in my Aristides 070 but I think the classic set may be more for me, especially the new Open Cores with the singlecoil 3rd voicing. Figured I'll give it a shot in my new Kiesel HH7 when it arrives this month, or in a custom doublecut I should have by the end of the year. 

I plan on picking up another set for my Carvin ST300 I think too. Just hate buying new pickups; why is it so hard to find used Classic sets (even the old ones) anywhere online?


----------



## congalocke

Love my Devin Townsend pickups!!! Gonna put in an order for a custom 7 string as soon as the DT 7's show. ;-)


----------



## Steinmetzify

Fan of the Moderns.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Humanoid said:


> The Modern set was clearly not for me. I'm used to DiMarzio Evolution kind of sound, and it has a sparkling upper mids but the sound is still chunky. With Modern set the highs were too crunchy, like there's always a tiny distortion there. I couldn't get it off. Passive mode helped a bit of course but then the output was too low. It would be nice to know if some other model is somewhere between the passive mode and active mode without the distortion in the higher frequencies.



The Moderns seem really sensitive to the guitar you put them in.

I put them in an Aria Pro II Flying V I have and they sound perfect. Tight and like an EMG set but better. 

I put them in a PRS SE SVN as well, and it didn't sound right. Too dull, not enough high end, etc etc. 

By comparison, the Classics I've tried aren't too picky about the guitar. They sound great no matter what guitar they're in.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I'm looking to finally install the set of moderns that I've had sitting around for 6 months, but I'm not sure what some of these wires are. I'm guessing the single wires attached to the quick connectors are jumpers, but the circled wires have no quick connectors... I don't see anything similar in the wiring diagrams either. I have no idea what the circled wires do.


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm looking to finally install the set of moderns that I've had sitting around for 6 months, but I'm not sure what some of these wires are. I'm guessing the single wires attached to the quick connectors are jumpers, but the circled wires have no quick connectors... I don't see anything similar in the wiring diagrams either. I have no idea what the circled wires do.


Could you take a closer picture of them? They look like they must be the voicing wires since that's all that is left for them to be. The weird part though is they are normally color coded with blue, green, orange, and yellow.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> Could you take a closer picture of them? They look like they must be the voicing wires since that's all that is left for them to be. The weird part though is they are normally color coded with blue, green, orange, and yellow.


they're not color coded, they're all black and white, which is why i was confused


----------



## Shask

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm looking to finally install the set of moderns that I've had sitting around for 6 months, but I'm not sure what some of these wires are. I'm guessing the single wires attached to the quick connectors are jumpers, but the circled wires have no quick connectors... I don't see anything similar in the wiring diagrams either. I have no idea what the circled wires do.



Weird. The set I installed recently didn't have any wires that looked like that. If they dont have connectors, are they just shielded cable? I know I had to provide my own shielded cable to install mine. I needed it to run in between the switch and volume knob, the volume and tone knobs, and the volume knob to the output jack.


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> they're not color coded, they're all black and white, which is why i was confused


Well then they would have to be the Voice 2 wire and HF Tilt wire. It doesn't really matter which color you choose. If you aren't using the HF Tilt, then it really doesn't matter. You must have bought these second hand, correct?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> Well then they would have to be the Voice 2 wire and HF Tilt wire. It doesn't really matter which color you choose. If you aren't using the HF Tilt, then it really doesn't matter. You must have bought these second hand, correct?


yep, got these used.


Shask said:


> Weird. The set I installed recently didn't have any wires that looked like that. If they dont have connectors, are they just shielded cable? I know I had to provide my own shielded cable to install mine. I needed it to run in between the switch and volume knob, the volume and tone knobs, and the volume knob to the output jack.


I'm not sure what purpose they serve, since they lack the quick connectors.


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> yep, got these used.
> 
> I'm not sure what purpose they serve, since they lack the quick connectors.


Well it looks like the quick connectors are already on the Fishmans, right? Take those off and solder the wires to those quick connectors.


----------



## Strobe

Only the pickup side is quick connect. The other side has to be soldered. If you have a multimeter, you can use it to figure out which lead is which. The three pins on the left are just like an EMG, the power it and carry the signal. The ones on the right are for activating the HF tilt and voice switching. The diagrams they give are pretty decent, but I can sum it up by saying you just send the appropriate HF tilt / voice to the ground to activate it.

If you are replacing with a quick connect EMG, you can literally just swap the quick connect. The pickup will work, but you will not have any of the voice switch / HF tilt options available - that requires rewiring with the push / pulls.


----------



## Quiet Coil

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm not sure what purpose they serve, since they lack the quick connectors.



PM’d (or should I say “started a conversation”).


----------



## KnightBrolaire

alright so @Noisy Humbucker cleared up what the wires were (they were for going between pots or a bus) and that I don't need them. Guess I should get to installing the moderns then


----------



## KnightBrolaire

got the moderns installed. The hf tilt seems like a waste of time in my baritone, so I'm probably going to a coil tap instead. So far I really don't like how spanky the bridge pickup sounds and find myself using the neck more.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> got the moderns installed. The hf tilt seems like a waste of time in my baritone, so I'm probably going to a coil tap instead. So far I really don't like how spanky the bridge pickup sounds and find myself using the neck more.



Spanky?
Did you go with ceramic or alnico in the bridge?
Mine doesn't seem spanky at all I don't believe (7-string ceramic set)


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> got the moderns installed. The hf tilt seems like a waste of time in my baritone, so I'm probably going to a coil tap instead. So far I really don't like how spanky the bridge pickup sounds and find myself using the neck more.


I didn't like the spanky sound the bridge provided either which is why I ended flipping the pickups so the alnico was in the bridge and the ceramic in the neck. If I could, I would just do a two alnico set. The alnico bridge sounded so much better while the HF Tilt did nothing for what I was looking for.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> Spanky?
> Did you go with ceramic or alnico in the bridge?
> Mine doesn't seem spanky at all I don't believe (7-string ceramic set)





Albake21 said:


> I didn't like the spanky sound the bridge provided either which is why I ended flipping the pickups so the alnico was in the bridge and the ceramic in the neck. If I could, I would just do a two alnico set. The alnico bridge sounded so much better while the HF Tilt did nothing for what I was looking for.


It's not that spanky now that I've tweaked my amp a tiny bit and rolled off my tone knob. I guess I should have tweaked my settings before running my mouth


----------



## bnzboy

Last week I tried the moderns (Strandberg 7 Prog) and they are amazing. Sizzly, tight and most importantly palm-mutable unlike EMGs I have tried which I ended up never able to dial in the tone I like. I would love to try some Tosin set if possible.


----------



## Quiet Coil

KnightBrolaire said:


> It's not that spanky now that I've tweaked my amp a tiny bit and rolled off my tone knob. I guess I should have tweaked my settings before running my mouth



I might be the only one who prefers it this way, but I popped the jumper on to make the the HF Tilt permanent and never looked back (still have a set in my 8). That crazy high-end whatever-you-call-it just doesn’t do it for me.


----------



## Glades

Does anybody know what is the difference between the Core Classic 7 (Bridge) vs the Core Merrow 7 (Bridge)? Is the classic suited for Metal?

Also, what are the dimensions of these pickups? Will they fit in the shallow cavity of an Ibanez 752?


----------



## Dayn

I finally got the Tosin Abasi 8-string signature set installed in my RG2228, with a 5-way superswitch and coil tap. I hope to get a few quick DI clean recordings together to post in the next day or so.

A lot of the marketing buzz mentions them being responsive, articulate, and clear. I was sceptical. But as soon as I started playing... I was feeling tingles. I got goosebumps at how good it sounded. Not only how good it sounded, but how good they _felt_. Coming from my EMG 808Xs, it's almost like I was playing with latency this whole time. I can't believe how instantly they responded. Unfortunately that's not something that can be heard, only noticed when playing. But goddamn. I... I didn't know that was a thing. I never thought I had 'lag' in my signal when playing, but apparently, I do. Or, I did. Until now.

The single coil tone is insane: no wonder he says he prefers to play in that position. I'm not entirely blown away by the passive tone, though I don't really play the type of music that uses it too often. I need to adjust my tone to take advantage of it, I think. It's good, but not as good as the single coil and active humbucker voicings.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

You _may have_ had an orgasm.


----------



## Avedas

When I tried the Abasi 8 string Fluences in an Abasi brand 8 string guitar I didn't feel any of that "quickness". Actually I still have no idea what feeling a pickup means. Is it because I've been playing with passive pups exclusively?


----------



## Dayn

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> You _may have_ had an orgasm.


What do you mean "may"? When I tried them out in store, he did explicitly say he'd close the door for privacy...



Avedas said:


> When I tried the Abasi 8 string Fluences in an Abasi brand 8 string guitar I didn't feel any of that "quickness". Actually I still have no idea what feeling a pickup means. Is it because I've been playing with passive pups exclusively?


I honestly don't know how to describe it, other than it's like... like I was playing with latency with my old pickups. Like I was running through an interface into a DAW and hearing it 1ms later. Except I never thought that was a thing until trying these. Maybe it's because I come from active pickups. These are active pickups too, but they shit all over my 808Xs - and my 808Xs are still pretty good.

I've never experienced this before, but 'feeling' it seems to be more like removing layers between your fingers and your ears. Like when you play something, it instantly makes a noise, like an acoustic would. Like you have direct control over the sound. It sounds crazy, given we're dealing with electricity here, but I'm shocked at the difference.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

You _may have _been electrocuted.


----------



## Dayn

I did a direct line-in test, no mixing, no volume, no effects, just a pure test... except the last track at the end: https://soundcloud.com/cyberneticsea/fishman-fluence-tosin-abasi-signature-sound-test

Following tracks are played 8 times, except the last one:

Beginning of Opeth's 'Hours of Wealth'.
High blues lick + ... umm, B-F-A#, whatever that chord is.
Simple descent and ascent from high to low E.
Intro to Animals As Leaders' 'Point to Point'.
It does djent.
Only the last track has distortion, which I used for my EMG808Xs and haven't tweaked yet.

Each track goes:

Bridge active humbucker
Bridge passive humbucker
Bridge + neck inner coils
Bridge + neck active humbucker
Bridge + neck passive humbucker
Neck outer coil
Neck active humbucker
Neck passive humbucker
Strings are at least a year old, without rust. Figured it'd be nice to have some easily-comparable clean signals without any effects whatsoever muddying the tone. Hopefully this is of some interest.


----------



## gienek

@Dayn this is in my interest  This DI is so quiet  i dig it, especially inner coils and neck on active. But im still wont do the DAMAGE to my passive route in 2228A :0


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Avedas said:


> When I tried the Abasi 8 string Fluences in an Abasi brand 8 string guitar I didn't feel any of that "quickness". Actually I still have no idea what feeling a pickup means. Is it because I've been playing with passive pups exclusively?


yeah I don't get the whole "clarity/quick response" thing. The 6 string moderns aren't any clearer/quicker than most of the passives I've tested.  I still dig em, but I don't think they're better than passives.


----------



## lurè

Judging just from the videos I've seen (pretty debatable ), I think the "clarity" advertised is present mainly on clean stuff.
On high gain territory I can't hear any difference from a regular passive.


----------



## Albake21

I know exactly what you mean @Dayn I felt the same way. Maybe not so much on the lag part as I've always thought my pickups were fast responding (and the fishmans are just as great), but the clarity just blew me away. I'm 100% a believer of these pickups now and will always recommend them to anyone. Unlike EMGs, they truly live up to the hype.


----------



## Strobe

Albake21 said:


> I know exactly what you mean @Dayn I felt the same way. Maybe not so much on the lag part as I've always thought my pickups were fast responding (and the fishmans are just as great), but the clarity just blew me away. I'm 100% a believer of these pickups now and will always recommend them to anyone. Unlike EMGs, they truly live up to the hype.



I feel the lag thing. That part is super subtle though. A normal passive pickup does not have that much lag. If you are used to playing things into digital audio workstations, you kind of get a sense of what lag feels like. After you get used to picking it up when it's obvious, you can start picking it up when it's more subtle. Maybe I am imagining it, but I feel the immediacy of the fluence pickups. It's not a big deal though.

The clarity thing though - I don't how you could be in the room and not hear it. It sounds obvious to me. This is the thing that I don't think any other pickups on the market are beating - but it's not a need to have. A good passive pickup for you application is probably clear enough. An EMG81 is generally clearer still. How much clarity do you need?

I like them because they have these things and they also happen to be really good sounding pickups. That's not about the feel, and it's not the clarity that makes them good sounding (blackouts are very clear but I dislike them in a lot of guitars). All of the ones I have played just have a pleasing EQ curve to me.


----------



## Dayn

Oh thank goodness, I'm not delusional. Or if I am, we're all experiencing the same globe-spanning hallucination together.

If you're coming from a passive pickup, then I can't say, I have no experience. But I can say that coming from EMG 808Xs, which are honestly really good pickups, the clarity on distortion is incredible. If I play a simple triad high up on the neck, it's less like a combination of sounds with distortion, but more like each individual string has distortion and is then layered on top of each other with a _little_ bit of blending. The separation between individual notes is really apparent compared to my 808Xs, which are muddy in comparison.

I'll have to fiddle with my patches, because they're still set up for 808Xs and aren't optimised yet, but it still sounds amazing. The only problem is that I thought I was done with my tone settings. Now I have to start again...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah I don't get the whole "clarity/quick response" thing. The 6 string moderns aren't any clearer/quicker than most of the passives I've tested.  I still dig em, but I don't think they're better than passives.



I have one guitar with Moderns, and it's legit the tightest and "fastest" guitar I got. 

On the other hand, I put the Moderns in another guitar, and it was mud city. 

They just seem really fucking picky about the guitar.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I have one guitar with Moderns, and it's legit the tightest and "fastest" guitar I got.
> 
> On the other hand, I put the Moderns in another guitar, and it was mud city.
> 
> They just seem really fucking picky about the guitar.


the moderns aren't any faster/clearer than the m6 or elysians ime. i guess for people used to muddier pickups they're super clear.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

demo of the merrow set by keith


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ ninj'd


----------



## Smoked Porter

The pickups sound pretty nice, but what I'm really interested in is that chorus/vibrato effect he's using for the cleans. It sounds so deep and wet. Teehee.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Here's a short clip from Keith, demoing the KM Fluence "Brown" sound tone.
https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagra...130_228782907713178_2807420057523585024_n.mp4


----------



## lewis

Am i the only one who much preferred 6 year ago Merrow? He has gotten seriously mature with his writing his production and recording skills are top notch now.

But i just preffered his older style. Way groovier/bouncier and more memorable. Alot of this new stuff is like too slow/eerie for my tastes. Iike i say. Grown up music.


----------



## Albake21

lewis said:


> Am i the only one who much preferred 6 year ago Merrow? He has gotten seriously mature with his writing his production and recording skills are top notch now.
> 
> But i just preffered his older style. Way groovier/bouncier and more memorable. Alot of this new stuff is like too slow/eerie for my tastes. Iike i say. Grown up music.


To be brutally honest, I never really liked his music or style. I like him, I like his guitars, and I really like his tone, but I just never got into his music.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Question for you knowledgable guys.. if I have a modern set, and I try to use the same wiring and put the new Open Cores in (just to test, before I install in another guitar later) - will that work?

The open Core's have the Single coil / ground where the Modern has HF Tilt and ground in the same places... wonder if that'll make a diff? Wonder if I should hmm.


----------



## Albake21

SnowfaLL said:


> Question for you knowledgable guys.. if I have a modern set, and I try to use the same wiring and put the new Open Cores in (just to test, before I install in another guitar later) - will that work?
> 
> The open Core's have the Single coil / ground where the Modern has HF Tilt and ground in the same places... wonder if that'll make a diff? Wonder if I should hmm.


I'm pretty positive this would work just fine as long as it's setup as a push pull config.


----------



## SnowfaLL

curious, is the universal battery pack bigger than a 9V?? I'm considering getting one for my Kiesel HH7 potentially (if I keep these pickups in there) but the 9V doesnt really fit, esp with the 2 push-pull setup of the open cores.. Wonder if the universal battery would fit but I am doubting it, based on pictures (not the connector jack, but the battery itself)

no dimensions on the site.


----------



## Defmelonn

I got the steff set for both 7 and 6 strings. Amazing sounding pick ups.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

lewis said:


> Am i the only one who much preferred 6 year ago Merrow? He has gotten seriously mature with his writing his production and recording skills are top notch now.
> 
> But i just preffered his older style. Way groovier/bouncier and more memorable. Alot of this new stuff is like too slow/eerie for my tastes. Iike i say. Grown up music.



He's grown tremendously and he deserves the success he's attained, but I'm with you, his older stuff was more memorable.


----------



## Strobe

SnowfaLL said:


> curious, is the universal battery pack bigger than a 9V?? I'm considering getting one for my Kiesel HH7 potentially (if I keep these pickups in there) but the 9V doesnt really fit, esp with the 2 push-pull setup of the open cores.. Wonder if the universal battery would fit but I am doubting it, based on pictures (not the connector jack, but the battery itself)
> 
> no dimensions on the site.



Yes. It's basically a phone batter + another thing that is about 2 phone batteries thickness. It's not as thick as a 9V battery, but it takes up more space overall. It's not really space saving - but it's super nice to have a low battery warning and the ability to recharge it so easily. Normally if I play live I change out my 9V's just to be safe. This saves out on a lot of batteries - just not space :-/


----------



## Iceblade

Quick question...

For the Abasi 7's (non-soapbar), which I believe are the nickel and black nickel versions (Black Nickel - PRF-MS7-TB2 Nickel - PRF-MS7-TN2), does anyone know if I would need to route our the pickup cavity to stick them into my Ibanez RG7321? I know that it will likely require drilling at least one small hole for a toggle switch and I'll likely use a shop to do the work vs. doing it myself, but I just wanted to double check.

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Iceblade said:


> Quick question...
> 
> For the Abasi 7's (non-soapbar), which I believe are the nickel and black nickel versions (Black Nickel - PRF-MS7-TB2 Nickel - PRF-MS7-TN2), does anyone know if I would need to route our the pickup cavity to stick them into my Ibanez RG7321? I know that it will likely require drilling at least one small hole for a toggle switch and I'll likely use a shop to do the work vs. doing it myself, but I just wanted to double check.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeff



Yup. Need to route the corners to be more square. Maybe even widen it a bit.
Hell, I had to do it with my PRS SVN, and that was supposed to fit covered pickups.


----------



## Iceblade

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. Need to route the corners to be more square. Maybe even widen it a bit.
> Hell, I had to do it with my PRS SVN, and that was supposed to fit covered pickups.



Thanks, man! 

Regs,
Jeff in Houston


----------



## patdavidmusic

I really wish, Fishman would offer the input jack usb charger that comes in the koche set and with the schecter km guitars,
Come on fishman!


----------



## SnowfaLL

damn.. so I tried the Open Core 7 set in my new Kiesel Holdsworth 7 for a few weeks, with the intentions of sending the set to a guitar im having built, but it was so awesome.. Just couldnt fit much in the cavity (battery barely fit, could only do one pushpull) - then I put my fav, Dimarzio Liquifire in the guitar.. and it sounded like shit. I dunno if maybe the wood choices (walnut neck/alder body) or I wired it wrong.. but the Fluence's sounded much better... so I decided to spend the money, gonna order a Keith Merrow set for my custom build, and keep the Open Cores in the HH7. That will make three sets of 7s, with my Aristides having the moderns (happy with them too). Just too amazing for humbuckers. 

I wonder how the single coil set is? Can it get take in enough gain to play metal? thats my concern on those. I might try it later on. damn I'm hooked.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ FYI, this agrees with my own experience as well, when comparing Fishmans to other pickups. I have EMGs, and a few passive sets (Titan 7, SD APII/Custom custom, and the SD Pegasus/Sentient 7). With the exception of the Pegasus/Sentient set, all others sound like poop when compared with any of the Fishmans I have .


----------



## Strobe

SnowfaLL said:


> damn.. so I tried the Open Core 7 set in my new Kiesel Holdsworth 7 for a few weeks, with the intentions of sending the set to a guitar im having built, but it was so awesome.. Just couldnt fit much in the cavity (battery barely fit, could only do one pushpull) - then I put my fav, Dimarzio Liquifire in the guitar.. and it sounded like shit. I dunno if maybe the wood choices (walnut neck/alder body) or I wired it wrong.. but the Fluence's sounded much better... so I decided to spend the money, gonna order a Keith Merrow set for my custom build, and keep the Open Cores in the HH7. That will make three sets of 7s, with my Aristides having the moderns (happy with them too). Just too amazing for humbuckers.
> 
> I wonder how the single coil set is? Can it get take in enough gain to play metal? thats my concern on those. I might try it later on. damn I'm hooked.



I own both the strat and tele single coil sets. They can handle high gain. I don't think it's ideally suited for chugging because I don't think single coils are ideal for that. That said, they are very quiet. The tele has a little more girth on the bridge, so I would say it's a little better if you want to do the high gain stuff. If you went with the strat set, I would wire the bridge to the tone control if you want to do rhythm. It's quite bright.


----------



## Bastian93

Hey Fishman users,

I want to join your club. After trying out the Tosin set in a friends guitar I completely fell in love with the sound and especially the versatility of them.
Looking at the wiring diagrams at the Fishman website, I was wondering if I could use a Fender style 5 way switch (PIC) + 1 Vol+ 1 Tone Poti (could use push/pull potis that are included in the set)? Or is it necessary to get an Oak Grigsby Super Switch or the Otax model shown in the diagrams?
It's important to me that I can access all 3 Voicings.

Only time I switched PUs it was a simple passiv pu to passive pu switch, so im not really experienced in that field.

Hope you can help me out here, so I can join your club as fast as possible


----------



## Dayn

Bastian93 said:


> Hey Fishman users,
> 
> I want to join your club. After trying out the Tosin set in a friends guitar I completely fell in love with the sound and especially the versatility of them.
> Looking at the wiring diagrams at the Fishman website, I was wondering if I could use a Fender style 5 way switch (PIC) + 1 Vol+ 1 Tone Poti (could use push/pull potis that are included in the set)? Or is it necessary to get an Oak Grigsby Super Switch or the Otax model shown in the diagrams?
> It's important to me that I can access all 3 Voicings.
> 
> Only time I switched PUs it was a simple passiv pu to passive pu switch, so im not really experienced in that field.
> 
> Hope you can help me out here, so I can join your club as fast as possible


From my experience, not at all. Look at the wiring diagram. Needs to be a 4-pole 5-way switch if you want that exact setup. It's what I have myself, the Tosin Abasi set with the 5-way and push/pull tone knob. Though for what it's worth, the tech that I had install it wasn't a fan of the Oak Grigsby switch as it was a little rickety, but it works, so. Unless it craps out on me at some point, it's all fine.

The pickups come with all wiring and pots necessary for the wiring diagrams they show (including push/pull). You'll have leftovers. As I said, I had a tech install it because there's no way I wanted to stuff it up myself...


----------



## Jonathan20022

Just wondering for a future build, it'll be coming with Tosin Fishmans. Wired to a 5 Way so 1/3/5 are the Humbucking Bridge/Middle/Neck sounds, and 2/4 are the split tones. 

If I bought the Townsend set, I'm assuming these are connected in a similar fashion to EMGs via their quick connect system. Could I simply plug the Townsend Set there and have all the tones available or would I need to change the wiring for the Townsend set?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Jonathan20022 said:


> Just wondering for a future build, it'll be coming with Tosin Fishmans. Wired to a 5 Way so 1/3/5 are the Humbucking Bridge/Middle/Neck sounds, and 2/4 are the split tones.
> 
> If I bought the Townsend set, I'm assuming these are connected in a similar fashion to EMGs via their quick connect system. Could I simply plug the Townsend Set there and have all the tones available or would I need to change the wiring for the Townsend set?


the coil splits would have to be soldered onto the townsend set, but otherwise it should work fine


----------



## luckymethod

I also want to change the three positions switch in my Strandberg and move to a 5 positions but I wanted to get a slight different setup compared to the Tosin diagram. Fishman doesn't really seem to consider 5 positions in their diagrams and I wonder why.


----------



## Strobe

luckymethod said:


> I also want to change the three positions switch in my Strandberg and move to a 5 positions but I wanted to get a slight different setup compared to the Tosin diagram. Fishman doesn't really seem to consider 5 positions in their diagrams and I wonder why.



The way they work is:
Want to activate ____? Send the pin/pad to the ground. In terms of priority, if V3 and V2 are grounded, it goes to V3 instead of V2. Practially, this means you can put your multimeter to what you want to solder to. If it is electrically connected to ground, then soldering to that will engage that pickup selection in that switch position.

For me, that explains all I need to know. You might not be as comfortable with electrical stuff. If so, call Fishman. Likely they will just tell you to take it to a tech. Possibly they will have a diagram. If not, take it to a tech.


----------



## AC.Lin

Hey guys !

I don't know if this has been posted before, sorry if that's the case, but the guys at Fishman have created a library with isolated sound clips from every pickups they make.
You can download them all at the following link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/579zckh7d35x9kj/AAD2xZM8PbXSxTVz6hRoAOR8a?dl=0
*(Sound Clips are all in WAV format, the entire library is 577MB compressed, 605MB unzip)
*
In this library you get:
- Classic humbuckers
- Modern humbuckers
- Devid Towsen Signature Series
- Keith Merrow Signature Series
- Killswitch Engage Signature Series
- Stephen Carpenter Signature Series
- Tosin Abasi Signature Series
- Will Adler Signature Series

- samples from all the voicing availables for each pickups
- samples on clean presets
- samples on dirty presets

This is really a great move from them to allow us to make good comparisons. Put the WAV samples in your DAW and have fun !


----------



## Kyle Jordan

^This, is awesome. 

I hope they do it for the 7 and 8 string pickups too.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

I recently had a chance to try out the Fluence Carpenters and to me they have the most passive like transient response and dynamics and a really nice thick tone. Needless to say these will go into my next 7 string.


----------



## Albake21

BearOnGuitar said:


> I recently had a chance to try out the Fluence Carpenters and to me they have the most passive like transient response and dynamics and a really nice thick tone. Needless to say these will go into my next 7 string.


Interesting... I might have to give them a try at some point.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

This comparison makes me wanna try the Willie's.

But goddammit why are they only available in that ugly worn gold finish? Could look killer in black. 

And the Steph's sound good, but no more 6-string set.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Yeah, I don't get why they would limit the 6 string Steph set to only 50 units. I played the 6 string set as well and it sounded great in the Lag guitar that they were installed in.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

really digging the aggressive snarl of the classics and the adlers. the devy set sounds great too.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> really digging the aggressive snarl of the classics and the adlers. the devy set sounds great too.



How are the Classics compared to the Merrows?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> How are the Classics compared to the Merrows?


 classics voice1 is brighter overall and sharper in the highs/high mids. v2 has a bit more grunt in the low mids compared to v1 from what I can hear. 
classic V1 reminds me of the guitar tone from you've got another thing coming.
merrow bridge voice 1 seems to have a bit more low end than the classic v1. It doesn't have that same high mid sharpness either. voice 2 sounds pretty comparable to the classic v2 just with a bigger low end.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

I'll add that I'm liking the Classics more every time I hear them. They were my favorite Fluences that I played and I'm stoked that not only did they bring them out in 7 and 8 string versions with the Open Cores, but that they seemed to have combined them with the Classic Single Width pickups too with the 4rd voicing. 

I have to wait to actually try them until I get my Jackson and S8 sold, but I cannot wait to get them in to the LTD I'm buying.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I was thinking about getting an EMG 81/60 set for my just-recently acquired LTD EXP-200. Cuz, you know... ESP Explorers need EMGs. 

But I found this video of someone comparing the EMG 81/85 set to the Fluence Classics... and god the EMGs sound fucking terrible here. Flat, muddy, lifeless. The Fishmans sound SO much better.



Might have to change my mind.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Kyle Jordan said:


> I'll add that I'm liking the Classics more every time I hear them. They were my favorite Fluences that I played and I'm stoked that not only did they bring them out in 7 and 8 string versions with the Open Cores, but that they seemed to have combined them with the Classic Single Width pickups too with the 4rd voicing.
> 
> I have to wait to actually try them until I get my Jackson and S8 sold, but I cannot wait to get them in to the LTD I'm buying.


yeah if I don't like the tosin set in my next build then I'm going to grab some classics. the moderns are cool but the classics just have that old school snarl that i like


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah if I don't like the tosin set in my next build then I'm going to grab some classics. the moderns are cool but the classics just have that old school snarl that i like



In your opinion, are the classics suitable for tunings of C or B standard?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> In your opinion, are the classics suitable for tunings of C or B standard?


I don't have any classics currently. I'd assume they work fine for it since the moderns can go to drop g with no problem


----------



## Flappydoodle

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I was thinking about getting an EMG 81/60 set for my just-recently acquired LTD EXP-200. Cuz, you know... ESP Explorers need EMGs.
> 
> But I found this video of someone comparing the EMG 81/85 set to the Fluence Classics... and god the EMGs sound fucking terrible here. Flat, muddy, lifeless. The Fishmans sound SO much better.
> 
> 
> 
> Might have to change my mind.




That sounds to me like the tone knob on the EMGs was all the way down (or installed wrong). And brand new strings with the Fishman set - they even look shinier in the video.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I played a guitar with the EMG 57/66 today and it suuuuucked compared to my Modern and Keith Merrow set.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

got bored so I made some fishman modern clips with my mk3. 
cleans:
https://app.box.com/s/0awsex2r7o4cphry27w459yf66bic0iz
br00tz:
https://app.box.com/s/zxq12oavxxge3qtnkslxptaje4hv4aa2


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> got bored so I made some fishman modern clips with my mk3.
> cleans:
> https://app.box.com/s/0awsex2r7o4cphry27w459yf66bic0iz
> br00tz:
> https://app.box.com/s/zxq12oavxxge3qtnkslxptaje4hv4aa2



For a second, I was surprised you bought a KM-7 MK-III then I realized. 

-----

My pick for favorite set has switched to the Keith Merrow set. There's a fizz/peak that the Moderns have that I can't work with. The Merrow set has it's own peak elsewhere in the spectrum but it's more manageable for me. I'm curious about the Classic bridge but I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to try them side-by-side so I'll probably just stick with these.

The Modern set may come out actually sometime, although not soon. I still want to try the Tosin and Carpenter sets.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> For a second, I was surprised you bought a KM-7 MK-III then I realized.
> 
> -----
> 
> My pick for favorite set has switched to the Keith Merrow set. There's a fizz/peak that the Moderns have that I can't work with. The Merrow set has it's own peak elsewhere in the spectrum but it's more manageable for me. I'm curious about the Classic bridge but I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to try them side-by-side so I'll probably just stick with these.
> 
> The Modern set may come out actually sometime, although not soon. I still want to try the Tosin and Carpenter sets.


yeah i'm going to swap the devy set in next. i didn't want to put classics in this particular guitar since the moderns were already kind of harsh on the high end, plus jazzhands said the classics are brighter than the moderns.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah i'm going to swap the devy set in next. i didn't want to put classics in this particular guitar since the moderns were already kind of harsh on the high end, plus jazzhands said the classics are brighter than the moderns.



Yes and no
They're darker overall, but have a higher more present fizzy peak in them. The Merrow set just sounds much cleaner and articulate to me. That personal experience is making me reconsider the Classics.


----------



## Quiet Coil

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah i'm going to swap the devy set in next. i didn't want to put classics in this particular guitar since the moderns were already kind of harsh on the high end, plus jazzhands said the classics are brighter than the moderns.





LeviathanKiller said:


> Yes and no
> They're darker overall, but have a higher more present fizzy peak in them. The Merrow set just sounds much cleaner and articulate to me. That personal experience is making me reconsider the Classics.



Did you guys try the HF Tilt? It rolls that (what is to me) weird high end fuzz off and nothing else. It’s the way to go for me, otherwise it feels like the presence is dialed to 11.

EDIT: On the flip side that high end “sparkle” is no doubt one of their main selling points for most people.


----------



## Strobe

The Tosins are a little closer to the Devin Townsend set if you want less top end. Devin's have a ton of low mids and a very smooth top end. Tosin set has a smoother top end than the modern, and along with the classics are my favorites for leads.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Did you guys try the HF Tilt? It rolls that (what is to me) weird high end fuzz off and nothing else. It’s the way to go for me, otherwise it feels like the presence is dialed to 11.
> 
> EDIT: On the flip side that high end “sparkle” is no doubt one of their main selling points for most people.



I should try that before I ditch them I suppose.



Strobe said:


> The Tosins are a little closer to the Devin Townsend set if you want less top end. Devin's have a ton of low mids and a very smooth top end. Tosin set has a smoother top end than the modern, and along with the classics are my favorites for leads.



Devy set isn't available in 7-string sets sadly


----------



## Flappydoodle

AC.Lin said:


> Hey guys !
> 
> I don't know if this has been posted before, sorry if that's the case, but the guys at Fishman have created a library with isolated sound clips from every pickups they make.
> You can download them all at the following link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/579zckh7d35x9kj/AAD2xZM8PbXSxTVz6hRoAOR8a?dl=0
> *(Sound Clips are all in WAV format, the entire library is 577MB compressed, 605MB unzip)
> *
> In this library you get:
> - Classic humbuckers
> - Modern humbuckers
> - Devid Towsen Signature Series
> - Keith Merrow Signature Series
> - Killswitch Engage Signature Series
> - Stephen Carpenter Signature Series
> - Tosin Abasi Signature Series
> - Will Adler Signature Series
> 
> - samples from all the voicing availables for each pickups
> - samples on clean presets
> - samples on dirty presets
> 
> This is really a great move from them to allow us to make good comparisons. Put the WAV samples in your DAW and have fun !



I did some blinded testing last night with my wife randomly playing the clips and me sorting them by order of preference. I did one experiment for Voice 1, then another for voice 2.

A very enlightening experience which I highly recommend. It’s surprisingly hard to be consistent. Number one factor is whatever you just heard previously. If it’s something tight like the KSE, then the Classic sounds flubby by comparison. But then going back to the KSE makes it sound brittle. It’s incredibly subjective. However, over time, a couple of favourites eventually stand out. I went in with an idea of what I might like, and I was only partly right. The blind test is the ultimate test. 

The one which emerged the highest for both voice 1 and 2 would be the one I buy.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Yeah normalization to a given sound really confuses the whole selection process. The way I've been selecting keepers of pickup sets or even presets or other things is by asking myself what can I consistently pickup in a session and be happy with before playing an extended period of time. By the end of a session, I could convince myself anything is really bad or is really good. It's the first part of the session that reveals the truth really.


----------



## Don Tonberry

I've got a set of Moderns I really like but find the split coil sounds a little bit lacking. I want to get another set of Fishmans for another guitar I have. Leaning towards either the Classics/Open core or Tosins. I guess if I want that nice split coil sound I should go for the Tosins? Couldn't find too much on the split coil on the Classics


----------



## narad

LeviathanKiller said:


> I played a guitar with the EMG 57/66 today and it suuuuucked compared to my Modern and Keith Merrow set.



However good anyone thinks the fishmans are, the 57/66s are great pickups. I read this statement like, "I tried a burrito today and it suuuuucked compared to my ice cream and candy bars."


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> However good anyone thinks the fishmans are, the 57/66s are great pickups. I read this statement like, "I tried a burrito today and it suuuuucked compared to my ice cream and candy bars."


they really are the best set emg makes for overall versatility imo.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

narad said:


> However good anyone thinks the fishmans are, the 57/66s are great pickups. I read this statement like, "I tried a burrito today and it suuuuucked compared to my ice cream and candy bars."



Tonal preferences are my own of course but...
They're all pickups. It's a fair justified comparison, even more so with them both being active sets. They're very fizzy and harsh, kinda grating actually, compared to pickup sets I own. The Fishman Moderns I have come somewhat close since they're also kinda fizzy/harsh on voice 1, but they sound better because that grating high end isn't as pronounced over the other frequencies. The cleans are very flat too. Definitely not as dynamic as the Fishmans. I feel like I actually prefer cleans on the Fishman sets compared to my passive sets but I haven't sat down and extensively compared them with clean settings, just high gain settings. I used to own an 81/85 set and what I didn't like about them has remained in the new 57/66 set.


----------



## EZMETAL

Sorry - I'm a little late here. I'm thinking of ordering a pair of Fishman moderns for my 7-string ESP Horizon FR-7. Currently, it was Blackhawks and too be honest, it's a little too icey and bright for me despite the clarity. My other FR-7 has 81's in it which I really like. I suspect if I like the EMG's, the Fishman's may work better for me. Thoughts?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

EZMETAL said:


> Sorry - I'm a little late here. I'm thinking of ordering a pair of Fishman moderns for my 7-string ESP Horizon FR-7. Currently, it was Blackhawks and too be honest, it's a little too icey and bright for me despite the clarity. My other FR-7 has 81's in it which I really like. I suspect if I like the EMG's, the Fishman's may work better for me. Thoughts?


if the blackhawks are bright, the moderns will be likely be worse for that guitar.


----------



## EZMETAL

KnightBrolaire said:


> if the blackhawks are bright, the moderns will be likely be worse for that guitar.



Gotcha - I thought they were supposed to be closer to EMG's?


----------



## Quiet Coil

H.F.Tilt.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

EZMETAL said:


> Sorry - I'm a little late here. I'm thinking of ordering a pair of Fishman moderns for my 7-string ESP Horizon FR-7. Currently, it was Blackhawks and too be honest, it's a little too icey and bright for me despite the clarity. My other FR-7 has 81's in it which I really like. I suspect if I like the EMG's, the Fishman's may work better for me. Thoughts?



Get the Stephen set, which in my opinion is an improved Modern set, and be sure to wire the High Frequency tilt option to a push pull knob.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

BearOnGuitar said:


> Get the Stephen set, which in my opinion is an improved Modern set, and be sure to wire the High Frequency tilt option to a push pull knob.



What makes them more improved, in your opinion?


----------



## BearOnGuitar

The low end was increased and the midrange tweaked which makes for a thick and in my opinion fairly balanced sound, where as the moderns sound a bit trebly and thin. Then I remember reading that the transient response and dynamics wwere improved on the Steph set by increasing the voltage/headroom, which I can easily hear with this set, since the clipped off transients or lack of dynamics is my single biggest issue with any active or powered pickups.

Usually actives always sound flat in comparison to passive pickups, lacking the front to back movement in volume, due to the dynamics being somewhat restricted. I know Ken Susi said the Fluence pickups are not compressed but I can still hear it, even with the Steph set, however the Steph set has the least amount of compression of any Fluence pickups I played, to the point where I don't have any issue with it anymore. I know that this compression I talk about is also partially caused by the blade/rail magnets used in most of the Fluence line, which will make any pickup sound more compressed, but it seems the headroom also plays a big role in it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Tried the Stef Fluence on an ESP, and I think they are the least tight of all the Fluence pickups. But yeah, I can hear that it is more open. I imagine it can sound dark in some guitars like how the Devin set is.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> Tried the Stef Fluence on an ESP, and I think they are the least tight of all the Fluence pickups. But yeah, I can hear that it is more open. I imagine it can sound dark in some guitars like how the Devin set is.



Thats why I was afraid of the Stef and Devy set. Sound like they're either heavy in the bass or lacking in the high end. It's why I dig the classics. Plenty of bright high end.

Speaking of that...




Black nickel looks killer.


----------



## EZMETAL

Sweet axe!

I'm guessing as a thrash / death metal guy with a lot of tremolo picking I probably will like the standard ones better (not as flubby bass). It'll be an FR Horizon E2 FR-7. I guess I'll find out soon. I pulled the trigger and will have these installed within a week and see how they compare to the Blackhawks.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

That classic set is perfect for that explorer! My moderns are in black nickels too. Looks badass. Im thinking of getting a classic set for my SG, but i love the sound of the stock 498T. No way I can compare both since I sold my classic set from another guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I have the Moderns in another guitar. Might try to compare them one day. It's just the Moderns are in a Flying V, which is a pain in the ass to re-setup.


----------



## cip 123

Trying to Snag some 8 string sets but nowhere sells them in the UK!!!

Wanted the Tosins but nope none here, I have the moderns in my 7 and want something different, I've heard the Stephs are just a bit flubby 

I really want classic 8's or Keith 8's but I don't think i've seen any made yet


----------



## Dust_to_Dust

Just had the Will Adler Fishman's put into my Duvell, and I freaking love them!







I've also got a set of Devin's in my PRS Custom 24, these things are amazing too.


----------



## EZMETAL

I just swapped out my BK Blackhawk's out of my ESP Horizon for the Fishman Fluence. The Fishman for my style sounds way better and more even. If anything, it sounds somewhat like a hybrid between my EMG and BK (probably more on the EMG side but with much more clarity and attack). I'm not sorry to say I am quite happy about this. Probably put up my BK's on Reverb.


----------



## Korneo

I really LOVE the clarity and attack of the Modern. But the EMG 57 on my other guitar have some fat low end and note separation when tuned down that I prefer. It's really hard to choose between the two...
But I admit that the guitars are different. Both tune in B and neck thru, but a floyd rose (brass big block and titanium saddles) for the Fishman one (Jackson CS) and Ibanez fixed bridge for the other (Ibanez VBT).

I really love the 57 for the big fatty rythm sound and the Fishman for all the other metal things.
I really hate the "slow" attack of the 57 on the low B. The EMG 81 and Fishman Modern are lightning fast in comparison.

If Fishman made a mix between both, it can be the perfect match for me.
Maybe the Devin set is like these, but it cost a tons in Europe and if it's not what I want, I really be pissed...


----------



## juka

As you mentioned the EMG57/66 set, I think a lot of people would like to see a Fishman Fluence version of those, because I, too, have guitars where the Fluence Modern set is really perfect and others where the 57/66 just fits better sound wise.
Likes the Devin set, too, but was always reaching for the tone pot as they sounded as tone was slightly turned down all of the time.


----------



## Majoggy

Bought a Strandberg OS secondhand with a set of Fishman Moderns in it. Was totally prepared to love them, but I'm disappointed. Compared to my Nazgul/Sentient guitar, there is a distinct muddiness - like someone has turned up the resonance and I can't dial it out. So palm muting sounds a little flubby rather than the bright immediate attack or the nazgul. My description of the Moderns doesn't really sound like any I've read online. They also feel like they simultaneously lack output but also seem fairly compressed.

One thing to note is, the bridge seems quite far away from the pickups. I can't get it any higher, but I've seen that actives benefit from being as close to the string as possuble. However wouldn't this make the low end even muddier?


----------



## Korneo

Majoggy said:


> Compared to my Nazgul/Sentient guitar, there is a distinct muddiness - like someone has turned up the resonance and I can't dial it out. So palm muting sounds a little flubby rather than the bright immediate attack or the nazgul. My description of the Moderns doesn't really sound like any I've read online. They also feel like they simultaneously lack output but also seem fairly compressed.



I think the exact opposite ^^. I have a 7 strings guitar with a Nazgul and Sentient set and hate it for this exact reasons.




juka said:


> As you mentioned the EMG57/66 set, I think a lot of people would like to see a Fishman Fluence version of those, because I, too, have guitars where the Fluence Modern set is really perfect and others where the 57/66 just fits better sound wise.
> Likes the Devin set, too, but was always reaching for the tone pot as they sounded as tone was slightly turned down all of the time.


Exactly ! I've played the Blackout set for years and years. So the lacks of fat lows is really annoying for me.
You said the Devin seems to have the tone turn down all the time. This is because of a "lack" of highs ? Do you have a bright or dark sounding guitar ?


----------



## Korneo

I even think to buy a SD Jeff Loomis set to have the same sound of the EMG 57 but with the signature mids of every SD and more clarity...


----------



## juka

Korneo said:


> I think the exact opposite ^^. I have a 7 strings guitar with a Nazgul and Sentient set and hate it for this exact reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly ! I've played the Blackout set for years and years. So the lacks of fat lows is really annoying for me.
> You said the Devin seems to have the tone turn down all the time. This is because of a "lack" of highs ? Do you have a bright or dark sounding guitar ?


The guitar I had them in is not dark sounding at all, but Devin's signature Framus guitar is said to be extremely bright.
I even asked Frank Albo if they had HF tilt enabled by default, but he told me there is no HF tilt in the Devins. So maybe they just rolled off the high end to compensate for the overly bright signature guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It's weird. I have the Moderns in an all-mahogany flying V, and it's tight, bright, chunky... Perfect sounding.

Put them in a PRS SE SVN... Complete opposite. Dull, muddy, no attack. Sounded like ass.

I will admit I fucked up and didn't check if I put the Alnico in the bridge on accident. I had tons of hassle trying to install the pickup properly, so I might have fucked up in that regard.

It's weird because, for the most part, the Classics have been consistent in every guitar I've put them in.


----------



## Dust_to_Dust

juka said:


> The guitar I had them in is not dark sounding at all, but Devin's signature Framus guitar is said to be extremely bright.
> I even asked Frank Albo if they had HF tilt enabled by default, but he told me there is no HF tilt in the Devins. So maybe they just rolled off the high end to compensate for the overly bright signature guitar.


I don't my Devins to be dark or lacking highs either


----------



## Strobe

Regarding the Devins, I do not own them but my bandmate bought some a few weeks ago and I played his guitar for a bit. These are the most EMG sounding of the pickups. As others said, they are a little bit darker, but I would not call them dark. Think of an EMG 81. It's got a lot of upper mids, but the highs kind of have a smooth character to them. They will bite, but they will not grate your ears. The devins have that quality - but with a bit less of an upper mid spike and definitely some more of the lows/mids. They still have good clarity (as all the Fishmans I have played do - I am kind of surprised when someone has a different experience with them), and exceptional string separation.


----------



## Strobe

juka said:


> As you mentioned the EMG57/66 set, I think a lot of people would like to see a Fishman Fluence version of those, because I, too, have guitars where the Fluence Modern set is really perfect and others where the 57/66 just fits better sound wise.
> Likes the Devin set, too, but was always reaching for the tone pot as they sounded as tone was slightly turned down all of the time.



I have the classics in a Les Paul - and they are definitely in the vein of the EMG57/66 set in voice 1. The classics are my favorite of the Fluence Line - I tend to like a brighter tone. I took out the 57/66 set in a 7 string for the moderns. It is a great set, but I had some noise issues with mine, which is weird for active pickups - they otherwise sounded fine. No complaints about the classics though - they sound awesome for just about everything to my ears - really my favorite pickups.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah, don't let the name of the Classics fool you. They're plenty fucking aggressive. Just in a different way compared to the Moderns. Especially on voice 2.


----------



## Korneo

I'd love to see a video of a comparison between the modern and classic in a metal way.
It seems interesting. And I crazy love the sound of Satchel with the Fluence Classic set.

I have to admit that, I never been a fan of the EMG 81 sound. So maybe the modern bridge pickup is just not my type of pickup.
I used to be a die hard of the blackout from 2010 to 2016. Then swapping to the 57, like it but want more output and quicker attack.
Then buy a Fluence Modern and still think this pickup is meh... 
Maybe this pickup is just not my type of pickup.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I need to do it eventually. It'll just be a pain in the ass since the Moderns are in a V... And that guitar is a bitch to take apart.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

once i get motivated i'll.make a comparison clip between the moderns/devy/classics


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'll probably do it tomorrow. Been needing to change the battery in my V anyway.


----------



## juka

Had the chance to test-drive the Charvel Satchel model lately. The strange thing is that the bridge pickup didn't look like a Fluence classic while the neck PU did. Meaning the neck PU had black chrome cover with black chrome pole pieces while the bridge PU looked exactly like a Devin, i.e. shiny black cover with (silver)chrome pole pieces!?!
But whatever Fluence PUs they use for the Satchel model now (the guitar came directly from Mexico unopened), they sounded great, had high output, but didn't sound like the EMG57/66 set in my other guitar at all.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Did the bridge pickup sound bright or smoother? If it had lots of midrange with a smooth too end, it's the Dev. If it's super bright, tons of attack, it's the classic.


----------



## juka

Yeah, you hit a point there. Although with it's full maple neck, alder body and Floyd it should have been on the very trebly site, but through the bridge PU it wasn't.
I hope you can see on the pic what I meant about different looks: Neck pickup shows the typical Fluence Classic in black chrome look, bridge PU looks quite different and more like a Dev


----------



## Strobe

This guy does some good videos with the moderns and classics back to back:





But if you want the best sounding demos on youtube, Josh Middleton is always awesome. I may have posted one of these before, my apologies if I did.

Here the classic.


And here is Josh with the modern


Side note regarding the Satchel signature. It's supposed to be the classics in there. Not sure which voice you are in, but both classic voices are pretty bright, V1 much more so. V2 chugs way more. You can find out what the pickup is easily from the bottom of it, but you would not have access to that in a store. The classics, moderns, and devin set can all have that black nickel finish, so it's one of those 3.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> View attachment 63859
> 
> 
> Yeah, you hit a point there. Although with it's full maple neck, alder body and Floyd it should have been on the very trebly site, but through the bridge PU it wasn't.
> I hope you can see on the pic what I meant about different looks: Neck pickup shows the typical Fluence Classic in black chrome look, bridge PU looks quite different and more like a Dev



If voice 1 had a tighter sound and more gain than voice 2, then it was a Devin bridge. If voice 1 was super bright and kinda scooped while voice 2 had more mids, more output, and a tighter sound, then it was a classic bridge.



Strobe said:


> The classics, moderns, and devin set can all have that black nickel finish, so it's one of those 3.



The Moderns have no polepieces. The black Classics are fully black, cover and polepieces. The Devys are black covers with nickel polepieces. 

I was assuming there was a fuckup at the fsctory where they accidentally put the nickel pole pieces on a black covered Classic, but it sounds like they might have actually put a Devy bridge in there.


----------



## patdavidmusic

Morning lads,
Just a very quick test with the fishman Devin set and the music man valentine pickups with a built in silent circuit, can you tell the difference? -both are pretty pleasing sounds-


----------



## Andromalia

Devin's have more bass and are more pleasing to the ear standalone. I might pick the other ones for black metal though if I had to choose.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Musician's Friend has the 8-string version of Keith Merrow's set now


----------



## MASS DEFECT

To the guys who have Modern sets, does your alnico neck hum or there is a bit of noise compared to the ultra quiet ceramic bridge? Mine does that. The alnico neck has a bit of noise compared to the ceramic bridge. Both of my sets have them and I think I did a proper install.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

MASS DEFECT said:


> To the guys who have Modern sets, does your alnico neck hum or there is a bit of noise compared to the ultra quiet ceramic bridge? Mine does that. The alnico neck has a bit of noise compared to the ceramic bridge. Both of my sets have them and I think I did a proper install.



I'll check later on when I get home but I don't recall having that issue.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'll check later on when I get home but I don't recall having that issue.



It's just minimal hum. It's still quiet relative to what yo expect from Fluence pups. But when I switch from bridge to neck, it becomes very apparent that the neck pickup is NOT AS QUIET as the bridge. The ceramic bridge is dead silent.


----------



## Frey

I've been really trying to love the Moderns in my LTD SH7 but there is just something missing. Mainly they're just lacking "girth and bite" that is most noticeable with chugs or anything low and palm muted. The longer I play in a given sitting, the more my ears start to notice it and dislike them. I quite like them for cleans and lead playing but if my 0s and 1s don't sound right why even have a guitar? 

I've noticed a few folks share my opinion but I'm definitely in the minority here. Based on that and some sound clips I've heard, it makes me feel like I'm somehow doing something wrong.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm very close to throwing a Black Winter set.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Frey said:


> I've been really trying to love the Moderns in my LTD SH7 but there is just something missing. Mainly they're just lacking "girth and bite" that is most noticeable with chugs or anything low and palm muted. The longer I play in a given sitting, the more my ears start to notice it and dislike them. I quite like them for cleans and lead playing but if my 0s and 1s don't sound right why even have a guitar?
> 
> I've noticed a few folks share my opinion but I'm definitely in the minority here. Based on that and some sound clips I've heard, it makes me feel like I'm somehow doing something wrong.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions? I'm very close to throwing a Black Winter set.


1. what amp are you using?
2. what are your settings?
3. you're probably doing something wrong, the moderns chug with ease through everything I've tested them with. voice 2 in particular has an excellent chug.


----------



## Frey

I run through either my 6505+ and a Marshall 4x12 with V30s or my AX8. TS808 and pretty standard settings I imagine. I keep the gain around 5 and presnce around 8. Also pretty bass heavy with that around 8. TS set as expected.

I almost exclusively use the Engl models on the AX8 but dabble with some of the recto stuff. Basic metal signal chains. I've tried tweaking the gain, bass, depth, and presence mainly to get what I'm "missing".

I also almost always have them set in their Passive voicing although I've tried voice 1 plenty of times.

I am getting an almost "static-y" type of sound briefly after first plug the 1/4" into the input jack in case that means anything.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Frey said:


> I run through either my 6505+ and a Marshall 4x12 with V30s or my AX8. TS808 and pretty standard settings I imagine. I keep the gain around 5 and presnce around 8. Also pretty bass heavy with that around 8. TS set as expected.
> 
> I almost exclusively use the Engl models on the AX8 but dabble with some of the recto stuff. Basic metal signal chains. I've tried tweaking the gain, bass, depth, and presence mainly to get what I'm "missing".
> 
> I also almost always have them set in their Passive voicing although I've tried voice 1 plenty of times.
> 
> I am getting an almost "static-y" type of sound briefly after first plug the 1/4" into the input jack in case that means anything.



I do notice the 7-string Moderns I tried are missing the attack I love from my Modern-loaded 6-string flying V. 

Also I think the static noise is common. It's probably just the pickups powering up. When you disconnect the jack, it cuts off the power.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Frey said:


> I run through either my 6505+ and a Marshall 4x12 with V30s or my AX8. TS808 and pretty standard settings I imagine. I keep the gain around 5 and presnce around 8. Also pretty bass heavy with that around 8. TS set as expected.
> 
> I almost exclusively use the Engl models on the AX8 but dabble with some of the recto stuff. Basic metal signal chains. I've tried tweaking the gain, bass, depth, and presence mainly to get what I'm "missing".
> 
> I also almost always have them set in their Passive voicing although I've tried voice 1 plenty of times.
> 
> I am getting an almost "static-y" type of sound briefly after first plug the 1/4" into the input jack in case that means anything.


what are your bass/mid/treble settings on the 6505? telling us that you have "standard settings" isn't going to allow anyone to actually help you.
here's a quick clip I did with a 6505 profile and my modern loaded guitar. chugs with ease.
https://app.box.com/s/s6m4jm7p0rqt6sawc6tj4epu96lml1he


----------



## Frey

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I do notice the 7-string Moderns I tried are missing the attack I love from my Modern-loaded 6-string flying V.
> 
> Also I think the static noise is common. It's probably just the pickups powering up. When you disconnect the jack, it cuts off the power.



Well I'm at least happy to hear the static is most likely not an issue. I have fairly little experience with actives since I've never liked them too much. It wouldn't be the first case for me of a 7 string pup not sounding as good (or at least the same) either. I quite liked the DiMarzio Evolution and my old 6 string USA Soloist but never liked the 7 string model at all.



KnightBrolaire said:


> what are your bass/mid/treble settings on the 6505? telling us that you have "standard settings" isn't going to allow anyone to actually help you.
> here's a quick clip I did with a 6505 profile and my modern loaded guitar. chugs with ease.
> https://app.box.com/s/s6m4jm7p0rqt6sawc6tj4epu96lml1he



Apologies but I didn't suppose the EQ I left out would help too much here. Anyways, my settings for the SH7 are:

Pre - 5
Bass - 8
Mid - 4.5
Treble - 5.5
Resonance - 9
Presence - 8

TS808:

OD - 0
Tone - Maxed
Level - Maxed

Your demo definitely displays some more bite than I've been able to coax out of these  Were they Modern 7s?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Frey said:


> Well I'm at least happy to hear the static is most likely not an issue. I have fairly little experience with actives since I've never liked them too much. It wouldn't be the first case for me of a 7 string pup not sounding as good (or at least the same) either. I quite liked the DiMarzio Evolution and my old 6 string USA Soloist but never liked the 7 string model at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies but I didn't suppose the EQ I left out would help too much here. Anyways, my settings for the SH7 are:
> 
> Pre - 5
> Bass - 8
> Mid - 4.5
> Treble - 5.5
> Resonance - 9
> Presence - 8
> 
> TS808:
> 
> OD - 0
> Tone - Maxed
> Level - Maxed
> 
> Your demo definitely displays some more bite than I've been able to coax out of these  Were they Modern 7s?



Mine are Modern 7s
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dc3z2...65351_fishman_modern_7_voice_1_and_2.wav/file


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Frey said:


> Well I'm at least happy to hear the static is most likely not an issue. I have fairly little experience with actives since I've never liked them too much. It wouldn't be the first case for me of a 7 string pup not sounding as good (or at least the same) either. I quite liked the DiMarzio Evolution and my old 6 string USA Soloist but never liked the 7 string model at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies but I didn't suppose the EQ I left out would help too much here. Anyways, my settings for the SH7 are:
> 
> Pre - 5
> Bass - 8
> Mid - 4.5
> Treble - 5.5
> Resonance - 9
> Presence - 8
> 
> TS808:
> 
> OD - 0
> Tone - Maxed
> Level - Maxed
> 
> Your demo definitely displays some more bite than I've been able to coax out of these  Were they Modern 7s?


i was using a 6 string baritone.
those look like very bass heavy settings for a 6505, let alone for one that you're running a 7 string into. i've found with ergs that you want less bass coming from the amp since they already have more inherently than a 6 string does. i'd say try dialing in more mids/highs and dialing back the low end a fair amount. try and get a good sound without the ts8 first.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

I'm planning to buy a Ltd mh1000 evertune (the sweet one with flame maple top) and I'm wondering about swapping the emg set for Fishmans

Which set would you recommend me ? I play drop C/B metalcore and proggy stuff


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheUnknownOne said:


> I'm planning to buy a Ltd mh1000 evertune (the sweet one with flame maple top) and I'm wondering about swapping the emg set for Fishmans
> 
> Which set would you recommend me ? I play drop C/B metalcore and proggy stuff


moderns, unless you want the upper mid accentuation of the classics


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> moderns, unless you want the upper mid accentuation of the classics


Classics are still passive sized only though, right?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> Classics are still passive sized only though, right?


yeah but the mh1000 is a 6 string so that doesn't matter..


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Definitely the Devin set, it sounds great and is quite versatile. PS: Check out this video here, especially at 4m50s, for a cool comparison between the Modern and the DT set.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

KnightBrolaire said:


> moderns, unless you want the upper mid accentuation of the classics



Thanks ! I just hope that the fishman neck pickup is more polyvalent than the 85
Will I be able to wire them easily to try them out using emg quick connect, or do I have something to solder ?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheUnknownOne said:


> Thanks ! I just hope that the fishman neck pickup is more polyvalent than the 85
> Will I be able to wire them easily to try them out using emg quick connect, or do I have something to solder ?


you can wire them with the quick connect wiring, but you'll only get the one voicing iirc. It's easier to just install the electronics that come with the fishmans so you can have access to the multiple voicings/coil split.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

When are they going to offer the 7-string set of the Keith Merrow in soapbar?

Right now, buying them for a guitar would mean you're placing the current passive sized version in a soapbar route or jamming your battery into the control compartment. Not nicest options.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Just installed the KSE set into a guitar. I feel like they are overlooked, for some reason. Most posts here are about the Devin or Stef sets (and the normal classic/modern sets obviously).

I bought them for a few reasons:
1. I tried the set in Adam D's signature guitar, and loved the sound of it
2. In addition to being a good guitarist, Adam D is a great producer, who has worked on lots of metal albums. He knows good recorded metal guitar tone
3. KSE themselves have great guitar sounds, and both guys use these pickups

The KSE voice 1 is SUPER tight. It's a little brighter than the modern, and with less low end and slightly more mids. Voice 2 is really passive feeling, with a chunky low end and a bit less tightness. So to me, that's the best of both worlds. Voice 1 for really tight rhythm playing without too much bass mud, but has voice 2 for single note stuff, leads etc when you want thickness. Both voices have tons of articulation.

There's a general high end sizzle/sheen to the sound, which definitely helps them stand out in a mix.

The output is REALLY high. All my patches needed less gain.

My only criticism is that the single coil sounds are very very bland. They work, but it won't excite you.


----------



## Sanrek

Interesting that you mention the single coil voicing of the KSE, since I was currently debating if I should modify my existing wiring in my Horus M3 installation (KSE bridge/Strat neck) to find a way to get access to it (currently the single volume pot p/p is obviously used for voice switching).

I guess I won't bother and will just live without the option if the results are nothing to get excited about to begin with.


----------



## Matt08642

Flappydoodle said:


> 3. KSE themselves have great guitar sounds, and both guys use these pickups



Haven't they recorded all their albums with EMG 81/85 sets and only recently (after recording the last one) switched to Fishmans?


----------



## Albake21

Matt08642 said:


> Haven't they recorded all their albums with EMG 81/85 sets and only recently (after recording the last one) switched to Fishmans?


Correct. Although the album they are currently recording should have the new pickups. But honestly, their Fishman set are just clearer EMGs. I doubt their album will sound any different with them.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Sanrek said:


> Interesting that you mention the single coil voicing of the KSE, since I was currently debating if I should modify my existing wiring in my Horus M3 installation (KSE bridge/Strat neck) to find a way to get access to it (currently the single volume pot p/p is obviously used for voice switching).
> 
> I guess I won't bother and will just live without the option if the results are nothing to get excited about to begin with.



Ha, I actually installed these in a Caparison too - the Brocken 27 inch baritone 6 string

Don't get me wrong - it still sounds like a single coil, so could definitely be used. I just mean it isn't any super special in terms of sound. The passive Caparison humbuckers were better when coil split. But the heavy rhythm sound, the Fishmans win hands down, by a mile.



Matt08642 said:


> Haven't they recorded all their albums with EMG 81/85 sets and only recently (after recording the last one) switched to Fishmans?



Yep! But live they've been playing Fishman for about 2 years now.

And I meant more of a general point, that I like Adam D/KSE tone and production, so I would trust him to make a signature set of pickups.

A counter example to that might be he Devin set, where I really do like Devin but I've never thought their albums are particularly well produced. And his tone is more of a wall of sound, layered with delays and reverbs, where I don't think the pickup matters all that much. (I'm not in any way saying that they aren't good pickups).



Albake21 said:


> Correct. Although the album they are currently recording should have the new pickups. But honestly, their Fishman set are just clearer EMGs. I doubt their album will sound any different with them.



This KSE set does sound quite different to an EMG81/85 though. Very different in the mid range - it's much more pronounced in the Fishman set. I'm very confident I'd be able to tell them apart in a blind test. The Fishman modern set, not so much.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Can confirm the KsE thing. The sound and feel is different than an 81/85 set. The KsE has more attack and brightness. Much stiffer sounding and feeling pickup. LOTS of midrange. The 81/85 has more low end, so there's more chunk and sag in the feel.


----------



## Gmork

Which fishmans will fit into a multiscale 8?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Gmork said:


> Which fishmans will fit into a multiscale 8?


----------



## TheUnknownOne

So my mh1000 should be delivered next week and I'm still a bit hesitating on which set I should try first. The moderns seem to sound great but I'm afraid they might have a bit too much output ?

For reference, my favourite "go to bridge pups" are the duncan SH5 and TB6 depending on the context


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheUnknownOne said:


> So my mh1000 should be delivered next week and I'm still a bit hesitating on which set I should try first. The moderns seem to sound great but I'm afraid they might have a bit too much output ?
> 
> For reference, my favourite "go to bridge pups" are the duncan SH5 and TB6 depending on the context


IIRC the Moderns were on par with the SH-6. You should be fine.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

got bored, made some random noodling clips with my FSM and my modern loaded baritone. I think they pair even better with this amp than they do with my mk3 since the fsm has some low mid grind to fill in the sound, though I need to turn down the high end on my amp since it's a bit ear-rapey right now. download for best quality.
bridge V1: https://app.box.com/s/hsxbw0lpx48a0u9khz2x8lifmcbg1hrb
bridge V2: https://app.box.com/s/4fpl4fjndfjujdfmeu7mz0w2j38vxw1s
dirty/rolled off cleans neck V1 and V2: https://app.box.com/s/ykn1lmdz7ldxxzmmij958dlt737cdhte


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Finally got to try a Killswitch Engage signature Fluence.







I'm not so sure I like it over the Modern but it sure sounds a bit different. At the get go, the KSE set seems drier and less compressed in V1. Think of an EMG 85 in the bridge but take out all the bass. It is VERY VERY tight and clear. The sizzle seemed dialed down, or maybe it is just the guitar. I'm missing the sag of my modern, but the KSE set seems at home with fat sounding amps. They sound snappy and quick. Sounds pretty awesome doing Slayer runs. 

V2 sound huge. Too much bass. I don't like it. 

Single coil sound is a bit darker than the Tosins I have. The Tosins have the position 3 strat sound while this one is a bit like neck single coils in Japanese Jackson Dinkies with HSS config.


----------



## juka

Although you can find quite some info on how the bridge PUs compare to each other, I would like to know more about the neck PUs.
Which one would be best suited for those Petrucci high gain neck PU leads?
As much as I like my Modern 7 set, that's where to me the neck PU is lacking a bit.
Would the TA neck be better suited for this?


----------



## setsuna7

IMO the Tosin neck,split V2, sounds like a Tele, crystal glass sounding tone. thru distortion, instant Tom Morello sounds.


----------



## Flappydoodle

MASS DEFECT said:


> Finally got to try a Killswitch Engage signature Fluence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure I like it over the Modern but it sure sounds a bit different. At the get go, the KSE set seems drier and less compressed in V1. Think of an EMG 85 in the bridge but take out all the bass. It is VERY VERY tight and clear. The sizzle seemed dialed down, or maybe it is just the guitar. I'm missing the sag of my modern, but the KSE set seems at home with fat sounding amps. They sound snappy and quick. Sounds pretty awesome doing Slayer runs.
> 
> V2 sound huge. Too much bass. I don't like it.
> 
> Single coil sound is a bit darker than the Tosins I have. The Tosins have the position 3 strat sound while this one is a bit like neck single coils in Japanese Jackson Dinkies with HSS config.



You're right that V2 adds a shitload of low end. I've found that V2 is really good for leads, single note stuff, and cleans where voice 1 can be a bit pokey. 

Played my KSE-equipped guitar though a dual recto recently. V1 was amazing for tightening up the sound, while still sounding huge. V2 was just out of control with the low end for riffs, as you'd imagine.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I kinda liked V2 for some dirty stuff, actually. Sounds great for huge power chords ala late '90s/early 2000s nu metal and shit like that.  Of course it wasn't really designed for dirt sounds. Was more for their clean sounds. I dig it a lot for single note and lead stuff too, as someone before said. 

I will admit, I wanna give the Moderns one more shot. I have my LTD H3 with a Black Winter/Jazz set, which is already perfect for the guitar... But fuck, sometimes you gotta experiment.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I have a guitar with an EMG 81/60 set coming next week hopefully. Will probably finally give me an excuse to do a comparison between the 81, Modern bridge, and Classic bridge.


----------



## Albake21

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I have a guitar with an EMG 81/60 set coming next week hopefully. Will probably finally give me an excuse to do a comparison between the 81, Modern bridge, and Classic bridge.


I would love to hear this!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I'm still not getting along with the Moderns and I feel like it's just the character of them in general (something the HF solder pad wouldn't fix probably)

Whenever I can alot the money to that guitar, I'm going to go for the Tosin set I believe.

EDIT: So, can you swap the bridge and neck without a noticeable volume difference? I may put the alnico 5 in the bridge and ceramic in the neck...


----------



## Quiet Coil

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'm still not getting along with the Moderns and I feel like it's just the character of them in general (something the HF solder pad wouldn't fix probably)



On the HF Tilt - you won’t know until you try, and it’s easy to undo.

With it off (aka they way they’re intended to be used) they sound like a weird hifi emulation to me, sort of like a bad amp sim/frfr setup that just doesn’t feel right.

With HF Tilt engaged they start behaving like versatile, proper pickups. The difference isn’t quite as dramatic on the Classics to me, but with Moderns I turned the Tilt on and left it.


----------



## Albake21

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'm still not getting along with the Moderns and I feel like it's just the character of them in general (something the HF solder pad wouldn't fix probably)
> 
> Whenever I can alot the money to that guitar, I'm going to go for the Tosin set I believe.
> 
> EDIT: So, can you swap the bridge and neck without a noticeable volume difference? I may put the alnico 5 in the bridge and ceramic in the neck...


I did this with two sets. While it did help, it still have that same tone in the moderns that I just don't get along with. It was definitely darker though which was nice.


----------



## juka

Sounds like you guys should really try out the Devin Townsend Signatures instead.
As they were designed with Devin's extremely bright signature guitar in mind, they always had this rolled down tone pot feel to me


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> they always had this rolled down tone pot feel to me



Ew. 

Yeah I'm hoping experimenting with the Moderns will tell me if I either got a fucked up set for my PRS 7-string, or I accidentally put the neck pickup in the bridge position. My guitar is coming in next Monday, but given I have so much work going on Monday and possible dental surgery sometime next week, I'm not sure when I'll be able to record comparison clips.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

juka said:


> Sounds like you guys should really try out the Devin Townsend Signatures instead.
> As they were designed with Devin's extremely bright signature guitar in mind, they always had this rolled down tone pot feel to me



That description does not sound desirable. lol
Nevertheless, I play 7 and the DT set doesn't come in 7-string size.


----------



## Quiet Coil

If they ever make Tosin’s 7 string set in a regular humbucker size I’ll be all over that, seems like the Modern set but with an actual “personality”.

Until then it’s the Classic 7’s for me, which are great overall save for the split tone (disappointing on anything but clean).


----------



## Albake21

Noisy Humbucker said:


> If they ever make Tosin’s 7 string set in a regular humbucker size I’ll be all over that, seems like the Modern set but with an actual “personality”.
> 
> Until then it’s the Classic 7’s for me, which are great overall save for the split tone (disappointing on anything but clean).


Actually on Fishman's site it look like they are selling them, at least maybe in the future.

https://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/tosin-abasi-signature-pickup-set/


----------



## Quiet Coil

Albake21 said:


> Actually on Fishman's site it look like they are selling them, at least maybe in the future.
> 
> https://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/tosin-abasi-signature-pickup-set/



Those are still essentially “covered” pickups and wouldn’t fit in a direct mount cavity routed tightly around an open coil pickup (should be fine with pickup rings).

In my case it’s the KM-7 MkII and the rout is cut right up to the curvature of the pickup.

EDIT: Yeah I forgot to specify uncovered.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Those are still essentially “covered” pickups and wouldn’t fit in a direct mount cavity routed tightly around an open coil pickup (should be fine with pickup rings).
> 
> In my case it’s the KM-7 MkII and the rout is cut right up to the curvature of the pickup.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah I forgot to specify uncovered.



SamAsh has them available soon. Already listed


----------



## Flappydoodle

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I have a guitar with an EMG 81/60 set coming next week hopefully. Will probably finally give me an excuse to do a comparison between the 81, Modern bridge, and Classic bridge.



Yes please. And please post up DIs, same guitar with different pickups.

Fishman did give comparison clips, but they're all double tracked and processed through amp sims

Would be awesome to be able to run a DI through our own gear


----------



## MASS DEFECT

and for giggles, include your black winter. i have always been curious how close voice 2 modern is to the bridge black winter.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MASS DEFECT said:


> and for giggles, include your black winter. i have always been curious how close voice 2 modern is to the bridge black winter.


not very close.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Ya know, I really like voice 2 of the modern bridge and of the modern neck but voice 1 is what I really don't like from them. I'm just having trouble justifying keeping them given I only like half of them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> not very close.



Can agree. The Black Winters is a midrange sledgehammer. Modern V2 is more scooped and bright with a low mid growl. It's still tight, but not surgically tight. Sounds like a Duncan Distortion meets L500XL.



LeviathanKiller said:


> Ya know, I really like voice 2 of the modern bridge and of the modern neck but voice 1 is what I really don't like from them. I'm just having trouble justifying keeping them given I only like half of them.



What don't you like about them? The lack of low end and compression? You may like the Classic set or the Stef set.


----------



## narad

LeviathanKiller said:


> Ya know, I really like voice 2 of the modern bridge and of the modern neck but voice 1 is what I really don't like from them. I'm just having trouble justifying keeping them given I only like half of them.



Half of them is just what you get with a traditional pickup


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Can agree. The Black Winters is a midrange sledgehammer. Modern V2 is more scooped and bright with a low mid growl. It's still tight, but not surgically tight. Sounds like a Duncan Distortion meets L500XL.
> 
> 
> 
> What don't you like about them? The lack of low end and compression? You may like the Classic set or the Stef set.



Yeah, I think so. It seems the compression causes the high end to be more noticeable for one but it also changes the midrange character too and that part is what I hate. Everything sorta shifts upwards in the frequency spectrum. Voice 2 is much fuller but still sounds like an active which is fine with me. I wish voice 1 wasn't AS compressed as it is. It makes single note bits way too thin.

I don't know what the Tosin set will sound like compared to that though. I could be going even farther away from what I'm looking for by doing that. * sigh *

Classics aren't in soapbar format sadly. I do have the Keith Merrow set which is Classic neck and tweaked Classic bridge. I dig those but they have a particular sound to them which isn't suited for everything though. Voice 2 of the Modern bridge just slays for tightness and aggression. KM bridge is less gain but more focus on clarity and accentuated upper mids.

Steph Carp set is a tweaked Modern bridge voice 1 and custom voice 2. I don't know what the neck is though, I have a feeling it's like some of the other sets where it's just an exact pull from one of the non-sig sets. I need to look at these more since these are an option in addition to the Tosin set.



narad said:


> Half of them is just what you get with a traditional pickup


Exactly 
That's why I want to try something else in the Fluence line before switching the guitar to passives and paying a pretty(er) penny for soapbar format pickups.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

^You would like the Tosin V1. Like I said before it has the highs of the moders with some bass and low mids and it is much less compressed than the moderns.


----------



## Korneo

Damned, you made me want to try the Voice 2 of the Modern ^^.
I have the voice 1 without any switch or push pull and never try voice 2. I don't really like the Modern, I prefer the EMG 57 for exemple, so if the Voice have more lows and more scoop, maybe it's a win win for me.
I'll try that soon


----------



## Shask

Korneo said:


> Damned, you made me want to try the Voice 2 of the Modern ^^.
> I have the voice 1 without any switch or push pull and never try voice 2. I don't really like the Modern, I prefer the EMG 57 for exemple, so if the Voice have more lows and more scoop, maybe it's a win win for me.
> I'll try that soon


Yes, Voice 2 of the modern has a little less output, a little more scooped, and more low end. I like both voices, and switch between them. I just wish Voice 2 didn't have lower output. You wouldn't notice if that is all you used, but it is noticeable when you switch back and forth.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Shask said:


> I just wish Voice 2 didn't have lower output.



Have you tried the V1 gain option? Cuts the “active” tone down by 6db evening it out more with V2.


----------



## Shask

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Have you tried the V1 gain option? Cuts the “active” tone down by 6db evening it out more with V2.


No, I haven't thought of that, but that sounds like a good idea. I thought about messing with some of the other options next time I open up that guitar. I keep thinking about trying the hi-tilt also.


----------



## budda

How... do they not do tele pickups?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

budda said:


> How... do they not do tele pickups?


they do... the greg koch sigs.
https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=greg koch


----------



## budda

KnightBrolaire said:


> they do... the greg koch sigs.
> https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=greg koch



I had pitched fluence pickups as an alternative to hot rails for tele, then I went to the site for the first time and


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Have you tried the V1 gain option? Cuts the “active” tone down by 6db evening it out more with V2.


Thaaaat's what that option does. That's pretty cool!


----------



## Seabeast2000

budda said:


> I had pitched fluence pickups as an alternative to hot rails for tele, then I went to the site for the first time and


For the price of 5 hotrails.


----------



## budda

The906 said:


> For the price of 5 hotrails.



They're $500 for a pickup?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

350 usd for the greg koch sigs is ridiculous. no idea why they're so much more than regular fluences


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> 350 usd for the greg koch sigs is ridiculous. no idea why they're so much more than regular fluences



Because target demographic for Greg Koch is 40-60 yr old people watching Wildwood demo videos.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> 350 usd for the greg koch sigs is ridiculous. no idea why they're so much more than regular fluences



His comes with the battery pack + charging port, as well as the custom-made control plate.


----------



## Strobe

KnightBrolaire said:


> 350 usd for the greg koch sigs is ridiculous. no idea why they're so much more than regular fluences



The tele sets comes with a new control plate with the rechargeable battery pack built in. It also comes with a new jack with the charging port. You are basically buying the pickup set and battery pack all in one. That is why it is more than any of the other pickups. I own it. They are very good, but blew me away less than the classics or strat set did.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> His comes with the battery pack + charging port, as well as the custom-made control plate.





Strobe said:


> The tele sets comes with a new control plate with the rechargeable battery pack built in. It also comes with a new jack with the charging port. You are basically buying the pickup set and battery pack all in one. That is why it is more than any of the other pickups. I own it. They are very good, but blew me away less than the classics or strat set did.


ah, I didn't look very closely, just saw the price and then posted. my bad


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Hey guys, fairly new to this forum (in case that wasn't obvious already) and I could really use your input.

I've been using Fishmans in my PRS Torero for a couple years now, and I'm pretty happy with them. I've tried an older revision of the Moderns (in profile pic), the SC ltd 6 string set, and now I have the TA set installed. However, my 7 string Schecter Blackjack Sls C-7 with Blackouts doesn't seem to be cutting it for me tonally, so I'm looking to either throw in some Fishmans, or upgrade to one of the new Schecter 7s with Moderns factory installed. I can make it work, but I have to do significantly more to get it to the sound I want (quacky Periphery/Monuments style tone), since it's a particularly dark guitar, compared to my other guitars at least. I went to a local GC to compare it to a multiscale Ibanez with Moderns (not as similar a guitar spec-wise, but that's all I had to work with), and I preferred that sound in both clean and distortion tones.

What I want to know is, out of either the Moderns, TA set, or Moderns in the Schecter Sls C-7 elite, which would get me closer to the sounds I want? Asides from the aforementioned distortion tones, I've also been on an Animals as Leaders kick, so I'd also want it to do some nice split-coil clean/crunch sounds.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

Strange question but serious nonetheless : does anyone knows where I could find videoclips showcasing the various fishman pickups finishes under different lights ? I'm not sure if I will go for the chrome, nickel or black nickel ones.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Yeah, definitely ditching the Modern set. I never compared them to each other before but I happened to switch guitars in the right order and ended up comparing these by chance...

My MojoTone Black Magic set has all of the dynamics and things I like about the Fishman Fluence Modern set but without the harshness in the treble and high mids that I don't like. To me, the clarity is the same too. The Black Magic set actually sounds a lot like an active set of pickups.

Gonna wait and see if I can snag a deal on the Tosin set around Black Friday and I'll pop them in to see how I dig those. If I don't like them, I'm probably going to get another set of pickups from The Guitarmory to put in there.

Anyone know which online retailer (for the USA) has the cheapest return/restocking fee(s)? Probably better off returning than taking a huge loss on reselling.



TheUnknownOne said:


> Strange question but serious nonetheless : does anyone knows where I could find videoclips showcasing the various fishman pickups finishes under different lights ? I'm not sure if I will go for the chrome, nickel or black nickel ones.


I looked for you but I was unable to find anything. Videos with the black plastic covers were all I found pretty much.


----------



## TheShade0110

Seems like Matt Heafy is getting a sig set


----------



## LeviathanKiller

TheShade0110 said:


> Seems like Matt Heafy is getting a sig set




That or he's just going to be using the Moderns maybe


----------



## lewis

TheShade0110 said:


> Seems like Matt Heafy is getting a sig set



such a great listen. I have had this exact mindset for my own live setup and its refreshing to hear it from seasoned pro's. Means Im thinking the right way for my own band.

Im going to go Fishman now. There is too many people raving about them and using them for this to just be hype at this stage. All my current favourite modern metal records have been recorded using them too.

I love the attack of actives but how everything squises together is the issue. Fishman resolving that is huge. And as Matt says, USB charging is a godsend.

I cant wait.


----------



## Tisca

If I purchase a single FF Modern pickup, does it come with anything else? The push-pull pot would be nice at least.


----------



## juka

LeviathanKiller said:


> That or he's just going to be using the Moderns maybe



Exactly my thoughts, because on the one hand side all other Fishman signature artist started with the modern set, too, when they were first announced as Fishman endorsees (even though there signature sets were already in the works) and I already asked myself which new signature set(s?) they will release at next NAMM.

On the other hand I'm not sure what new flavor Matt could bring to the modern formula that would justify a new signature model as to me he seems such a typical EMG81 guy and should be more than happy with just the regular modern set.

Pretty sure Fishman will present a revised modern set (with a real third voicing as with the classics when they introduced the open coils) at NAMM and maybe let Matt promote it, but there are really other guys to choose for a new signature set. Maybe Andy James? Pretty popular at the moment and a Fishman version of the 57/66 would be a great addition to their range of pickups.


----------



## juka

Tisca said:


> If I purchase a single FF Modern pickup, does it come with anything else? The push-pull pot would be nice at least.


Yes


----------



## lewis

juka said:


> Exactly my thoughts, because on the one hand side all other Fishman signature artist started with the modern set, too, when they were first announced as Fishman endorsees (even though there signature sets were already in the works) and I already asked myself which new signature set(s?) they will release at next NAMM.
> 
> On the other hand I'm not sure what new flavor Matt could bring to the modern formula that would justify a new signature model as to me he seems such a typical EMG81 guy and should be more than happy with just the regular modern set.
> 
> Pretty sure Fishman will present a revised modern set (with a real third voicing as with the classics when they introduced the open coils) at NAMM and maybe let Matt promote it, but there are really other guys to choose for a new signature set. Maybe Andy James? Pretty popular at the moment and a Fishman version of the 57/66 would be a great addition to their range of pickups.




damn it would be tough to convince Andy to ditch EMG. He has gone on record so many times sort of lambasting people who dis them (EMGs) and jump on the next big thing instead etc (in a roundabout way)

would be a huge coup if they did convince him to ditch EMG. Just cant see that happening.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> damn it would be tough to convince Andy to ditch EMG. He has gone on record so many times sort of lambasting people who dis them (EMGs) and jump on the next big thing instead etc (in a roundabout way)
> 
> would be a huge coup if they did convince him to ditch EMG. Just cant see that happening.


i mean steph from deftones used emgs for like 15 years and switched, same with devin townsend and most of the fishman guys. the fishman are noticeably more versatile and clearer than the majority of emgs ime.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Speaking of Stef, I got an SC-607B. The pre-Fishman one. Thinking about picking up a 2nd hand Modern soapbar to compare the 81-7 to.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

Fluence is the next big thing. EMG's used to be the next big thing also. Then it was BKP's. Wonder what the next big thing will be after Fishmans.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> Fluence is the next big thing. EMG's used to be the next big thing also. Then it was BKP's. Wonder what the next big thing will be after Fishmans.


you're acting like they haven't been the big thing for a couple years now. The hype is very well deserved, same with BKP (they make great pickups ime). I was an avowed active pickup hater for years but these are the first actives that legit hold up to good passives ime.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

KnightBrolaire said:


> you're acting like they haven't been the big thing for a couple years now. The hype is very well deserved, same with BKP (they make great pickups ime). I was an avowed active pickup hater for years but these are the first actives that legit hold up to good passives ime.




I don't know, I haven't really ventured too much considering... you know... Black Winters... they give me what I need.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> I don't know, I haven't really ventured too much considering... you know... Black Winters... they give me what I need.


black winters are great for what they do, but i get just as good of br00tz/chuggz out of the moderns, and they clean up better. you do you booboo.


----------



## PunkBillCarson

I play blackened doom metal, just how much cleaning up do you think I need? I'm using an amp that's known for terrible cleans!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

PunkBillCarson said:


> I play blackened doom metal, just how much cleaning up do you think I need? I'm using an amp that's known for terrible cleans!


play through a gorilla amp, that'd be more kvlt


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> play through a gorilla amp, that'd be more kvlt



He's right, you know...


----------



## PunkBillCarson

I can make a 6505+ sound like shit. Gain, treble, presence all at 10.


----------



## lewis

anyone got any clips or videos that happen to show moderns being played at a tuning around Drop Ab/G ? want to get an idea of what to expect when I upgrade my fender with them in the next few months.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> anyone got any clips or videos that happen to show moderns being played at a tuning around Drop Ab/G ? want to get an idea of what to expect when I upgrade my fender with them in the next few months.


I have a bunch of clips from earlier in the the thread where I was in drop a/agcfad.
I can also record some more stuff later today.


----------



## op1e

How controllable are they in a high gain, close proximity situation? I have the ns2 in my loop switcher going in front, my gsp1101 gate set to 80 threshold, and G Major gate in the loop set up tight and have trouble "reeling in the squeel" with my current bridge pickups. I know I need to be farther away from my amp if possible, but still you all know about tight stages...


----------



## LeviathanKiller

op1e said:


> How controllable are they in a high gain, close proximity situation? I have the ns2 in my loop switcher going in front, my gsp1101 gate set to 80 threshold, and G Major gate in the loop set up tight and have trouble "reeling in the squeel" with my current bridge pickups. I know I need to be farther away from my amp if possible, but still you all know about tight stages...



They are my quietest pickups due to whatever technology they use


----------



## op1e

Alright. Now it's just a matter of which guitar. I'm thinking of just doing everything (drop C, A standard) on my RGD. I really like the punch of the classics and am an avid JB user. JB, for 6's, D Activator for 7's normally. But this X2N7 has to go!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Okay, so I want to swap out my Moderns for Tosins and I want all 3 voicings. The guitar has two push-pull knobs. Each knob changes the voicing for one pickup. If I use each knob for a voicing for BOTH pickups, could I be running into an issue if I were to pull both knobs up? It would be trying to activate voicing 2 and 3 at the same time. Like, would it fry anything or something? Using knob 1 for voicing 2 and knob 2 for voicing 3 is the only way I could get all voicings without modding the guitar to have a 3-way toggle switch.


----------



## Steinmetzify

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so I want to swap out my Moderns for Tosins and I want all 3 voicings. The guitar has two push-pull knobs. Each knob changes the voicing for one pickup. If I use each knob for a voicing for BOTH pickups, could I be running into an issue if I were to pull both knobs up? It would be trying to activate voicing 2 and 3 at the same time. Like, would it fry anything or something? Using knob 1 for voicing 2 and knob 2 for voicing 3 is the only way I could get all voicings without modding the guitar to have a 3-way toggle switch.



I honestly have no idea but if it blows up we'll miss you.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

steinmetzify said:


> I honestly have no idea but if it blows up we'll miss you.



I'll miss my $270


----------



## KnightBrolaire

@lewis 
some more drop A clips. 
bridge v1 with fsm: https://app.box.com/s/ut9dnvsgmzfg82c9m2hm3mxw7jts92vk
bridge v2 with fsm: https://app.box.com/s/094ui7mx5ejhb1kbst70yv8853qkrj2b
bridge v1 with my mk3: https://app.box.com/s/p14yeywl48dpdcql9olq61t26nfwcxwv


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so I want to swap out my Moderns for Tosins and I want all 3 voicings. The guitar has two push-pull knobs. Each knob changes the voicing for one pickup. If I use each knob for a voicing for BOTH pickups, could I be running into an issue if I were to pull both knobs up? It would be trying to activate voicing 2 and 3 at the same time. Like, would it fry anything or something? Using knob 1 for voicing 2 and knob 2 for voicing 3 is the only way I could get all voicings without modding the guitar to have a 3-way toggle switch.



Everything I've read suggests that the single coil voicing overrides the active/passive voicing.

I've now re-read your post. So, your guitar doesn't have a pickup selector?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

AirForbes1 said:


> Everything I've read suggests that the single coil voicing overrides the active/passive voicing.
> 
> I've now re-read your post. So, your guitar doesn't have a pickup selector?



It does
It's a Schecter C-7 SLS Elite


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> It does
> It's a Schecter C-7 SLS Elite



I think that's the best set-up for the Abasi's then (blade selector). That's what I want, you'll only need the 1 push pull pot for voice 1/2. Swap out the 3 way for a 5 way super switch. Positions 2 and 4 activate the single coil modes: inner and outer coils. 

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...sin-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-1xT-5-way-Super-Switch.pdf

Either way, all of the Abasi wiring diagrams say that voice 3 over rides voice 1/2.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

AirForbes1 said:


> I think that's the best set-up for the Abasi's then (blade selector). That's what I want, you'll only need the 1 push pull pot for voice 1/2. Swap out the 3 way for a 5 way super switch. Positions 2 and 4 activate the single coil modes: inner and outer coils.
> 
> https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...sin-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-1xT-5-way-Super-Switch.pdf
> 
> Either way, all of the Abasi wiring diagrams say that voice 3 over rides voice 1/2.



It's a circular switch, not a blade switch

A 5-way doesn't let you have neck + bridge in voice 3 either


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> It's a circular switch, not a blade switch
> 
> A 5-way doesn't let you have neck + bridge in voice 3 either



Sorry. All of the images I've seen of that guitar all seem to have a blade. If it's like a PRS circular, then maybe you could set it up like that all the same.

But, either way, you could get all 3 voicings with 2 push pull knobs and the single coil will over ride voice 2/3 anyway.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

AirForbes1 said:


> Sorry. All of the images I've seen of that guitar all seem to have a blade. If it's like a PRS circular, then maybe you could set it up like that all the same.
> 
> But, either way, you could get all 3 voicings with 2 push pull knobs and the single coil will over ride voice 2/3 anyway.



Oh shoot, what was I thinking? xD
You're right. hahaha
It's a blade switch. That'll be an easy swap.

I must have been thinking of my Keith Merrow control layout


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> A 5-way doesn't let you have neck + bridge in voice 3 either



It does let you have neck and bridge in V3. Position 2 is N+B inner coils. Position 4 is N+B outer coils. Have a look at the switch positions.

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...sin-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-1xT-5-way-Super-Switch.pdf

That diagram doesn't give you anything for just a neck or a bridge in V3. I'd imagine that you could set position 2 to be the outer coil bridge V3, and position 4 to be N+B inner coils.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

AirForbes1 said:


> It does let you have neck and bridge in V3. Position 2 is N+B inner coils. Position 4 is N+B outer coils. Have a look at the switch positions.
> 
> https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...sin-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-1xT-5-way-Super-Switch.pdf
> 
> That diagram doesn't give you anything for just a neck or a bridge in V3. I'd imagine that you could set position 2 to be the outer coil bridge V3, and position 4 to be N+B inner coils.



Late night idiocy on my part. My bad lol


----------



## Flappydoodle

lewis said:


> such a great listen. I have had this exact mindset for my own live setup and its refreshing to hear it from seasoned pro's. Means Im thinking the right way for my own band.
> 
> Im going to go Fishman now. There is too many people raving about them and using them for this to just be hype at this stage. All my current favourite modern metal records have been recorded using them too.
> 
> I love the attack of actives but how everything squises together is the issue. Fishman resolving that is huge. And as Matt says, USB charging is a godsend.
> 
> I cant wait.



It sounds like nonsense marketing to me.

Matt talks about a delay and feeling out of time with his EMGs, but the Fishman's solve it. What is that supposed to mean? The delay of signal through the guitar is what? Less than a millisecond? No human being can feel or hear that.

Every single album they've ever done and every live show they've ever played was recorded with an EMG81. And now he's saying he can't play in time with them. Wha?

His point about battery charging is also nonsense. One 9V battery lasts for 3,000 hours in a guitar with EMGs. Change battery at the start of the tour and forget about it. Take a box of spare batteries with you. The Fishman pickups eat a 9V battery in less than 200 hours. That's why they had to invent the rechargeable battery pack - because people would be changing 9V batteries ever few shows.

It takes 3 hours to charge the pack by USB, and (to my knowledge) there's no simple way to connect a 9V to a guitar with the battery pack. If you forget to charge your guitar(s), lose the cable, don't have an adapter for whatever country you're in = you're fucked. 

His story about his battery dying just before the show is FAR more likely with Fishman than it was with EMG. And he was at a festival - couldn't find a single 9V battery? Another guitar? Another guitar tech? A pedal? Bullshit. The story even sounds implausible because EMG-equipped guitar sound "off" for several hours before the battery dies completely. No way he didn't notice until minutes before the show.

I have Fishman pickups in two guitars now. They sound good. But the hype is ridiculous. I think Matt has extra mouths to feed now, so he's out promoting the hell out of every product he can find, including essential oils lol.


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> Late night idiocy on my part. My bad lol



Hahaha. We've all been there.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Flappydoodle said:


> It sounds like nonsense marketing to me.
> 
> Matt talks about a delay and feeling out of time with his EMGs, but the Fishman's solve it. What is that supposed to mean? The delay of signal through the guitar is what? Less than a millisecond? No human being can feel or hear that.
> 
> Every single album they've ever done and every live show they've ever played was recorded with an EMG81. And now he's saying he can't play in time with them. Wha?
> 
> His point about battery charging is also nonsense. One 9V battery lasts for 3,000 hours in a guitar with EMGs. Change battery at the start of the tour and forget about it. Take a box of spare batteries with you. The Fishman pickups eat a 9V battery in less than 200 hours. That's why they had to invent the rechargeable battery pack - because people would be changing 9V batteries ever few shows.
> 
> It takes 3 hours to charge the pack by USB, and (to my knowledge) there's no simple way to connect a 9V to a guitar with the battery pack. If you forget to charge your guitar(s), lose the cable, don't have an adapter for whatever country you're in = you're fucked.
> 
> His story about his battery dying just before the show is FAR more likely with Fishman than it was with EMG. And he was at a festival - couldn't find a single 9V battery? Another guitar? Another guitar tech? A pedal? Bullshit. The story even sounds implausible because EMG-equipped guitar sound "off" for several hours before the battery dies completely. No way he didn't notice until minutes before the show.
> 
> I have Fishman pickups in two guitars now. They sound good. But the hype is ridiculous. I think Matt has extra mouths to feed now, so he's out promoting the hell out of every product he can find, including essential oils lol.



I agree with all this. I mean I agree with some of the Fishman hype as well. The multiple voicings and unreal clarity are definitely there, but the latency and battery thing is pure bullshit. Plus I'm almost positive you can use the Fishman battery pack with EMGs as well. It's something iIdebated on doing with some of my guitars.


----------



## AirForbes1

From what I've read, Fishman's are 9V killers, so it's definitely BS.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> It sounds like nonsense marketing to me.
> 
> Matt talks about a delay and feeling out of time with his EMGs, but the Fishman's solve it. What is that supposed to mean? The delay of signal through the guitar is what? Less than a millisecond? No human being can feel or hear that.
> 
> Every single album they've ever done and every live show they've ever played was recorded with an EMG81. And now he's saying he can't play in time with them. Wha?





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I agree with all this. I mean I agree with some of the Fishman hype as well. The multiple voicings and unreal clarity are definitely there, but the latency and battery thing is pure bullshit. Plus I'm almost positive you can use the Fishman battery pack with EMGs as well. It's something iIdebated on doing with some of my guitars.



Actually, I do notice a latency/speed thing. I think it's more about how they track with your playing. They respond faster somehow. I said this when I first got Fishman pickups before seeing any hype about such a thing and well before this video. Even though I don't like the tone as much as some of my other sets of pickups and I only use one voicing on bridge and neck, that and the clarity are the reasons why I keep them anyway. To each his own, I suppose.


----------



## Iceblade

I'm definitely thinking of getting the TA 7-string set for my Ibanez S7320. If I understand correctly it's the PRF-MS7-TB2 (non-soapbar) version that would best fit within this guitar, right? 

On the subject of the neck pickup, given the myriad of choices we now have in the Fluence line, would those that have the TA 7-string verion say that they are particularly "sweet and warm" ala Petrucci-esque, or are they a brighter and tighter? The stock Ibby pickups are not great, but that's mostly about the bridge pickup, which is far too dark in my opinion... but the stock neck is nicely warm and round for sweeps and singing leads. 

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## lewis

I remember frank confirmed to me on here that their battery pack will work with ANY active guitar product. Be it EMGs, active EQ or even the light up 9v killswitches if you wanted to go completely over board haha

also, ive read alot of people saying about the tracking/attack feeling more alive and more responsive. I.e faster than other pickups. I mean, I dont think it is BS but as soon as I have the moderns in my Fender i will update my opinion.

Everyone hyped Lace Xbar/Deathbar pickups massively and when I got around to trying them out I thought the Deathbar was absolutely garbage and the X-bar was just "solid".
Nothing that warranted the hype they got at that time so until i try these, this COULD be another example but as I said earlier, it seems TOO many pros now are using them for all applications for it to just be hype at this stage. Plus new albums I love have them on.

The lace hype had died well before now IIRC yet Fishman are still smashing it and attracting yet more artists to them.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I can confirm that the Fluence does eat batteries. My active gigging guitar lasts maybe 2 to maybe 3 weeks before you hear some very apparent loss in dynamics and gain. 

Sent it to a tech and he has installed the battery pack. But I also retained the battery box functionality since it came in stock with EMGs. I just have a fresh 9v with me but I also recharge. With the battery pack even if it is low power you don't get that loss in feel and dynamics since its putting out 9v everytime. 

I tested draining a battery out for giggles and hear what it sounded like. It sounds like a P90 phased out with the tone rolled all the way back. Sounds nothing like an EMG 81 with a battery dead.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

MASS DEFECT said:


> I can confirm that the Fluence does eat batteries. My active gigging guitar lasts maybe 2 to maybe 3 weeks before you hear some very apparent loss in dynamics and gain.
> 
> Sent it to a tech and he has installed the battery pack. But I also retained the battery box functionality since it came in stock with EMGs. I just have a fresh 9v with me but I also recharge. With the battery pack even if it is low power you don't get that loss in feel and dynamics since its putting out 9v everytime.
> 
> I tested draining a battery out for giggles and hear what it sounded like. It sounds like a P90 phased out with the tone rolled all the way back. Sounds nothing like an EMG 81 with a battery dead.



I need to see if I hear a difference swapping mine out then because I've had each of my Fluence-equipped guitars for 6 months and have yet to change the battery. I play them maybe only 6-10 hours a week though.


----------



## Albake21

Just buy rechargeable 9v. When I had guitars with Fishmans, I just bought a 4 pack + charger off Amazon for only $20.


----------



## Steinmetzify

lewis said:


> I remember frank confirmed to me on here that their battery pack will work with ANY active guitar product. Be it EMGs, active EQ or even the light up 9v killswitches if you wanted to go completely over board haha
> 
> also, ive read alot of people saying about the tracking/attack feeling more alive and more responsive. I.e faster than other pickups. I mean, I dont think it is BS but as soon as I have the moderns in my Fender i will update my opinion.
> 
> Everyone hyped Lace Xbar/Deathbar pickups massively and when I got around to trying them out I thought the Deathbar was absolutely garbage and the X-bar was just "solid".
> Nothing that warranted the hype they got at that time so until i try these, this COULD be another example but as I said earlier, it seems TOO many pros now are using them for all applications for it to just be hype at this stage. Plus new albums I love have them on.
> 
> The lace hype had died well before now IIRC yet Fishman are still smashing it and attracting yet more artists to them.



It’s not hype. I did a shootout with the Modern and the 81 and the Modern felt faster, more responsive, and tighter. 

Dig em, it’s my favorite pickup for thrashy metal right now, followed closely by the Black Winter. 

They’re not for everybody tho; recommended them to a good friend that plays doom and he sent em right back. They were too hifi for him, and I could see that for what he’s playing. 

Think you’ll dig em. To me it’s a tighter, thicker faster 81 and I love all hose things about it.


----------



## lewis

steinmetzify said:


> It’s not hype. I did a shootout with the Modern and the 81 and the Modern felt faster, more responsive, and tighter.
> 
> Dig em, it’s my favorite pickup for thrashy metal right now, followed closely by the Black Winter.
> 
> They’re not for everybody tho; recommended them to a good friend that plays doom and he sent em right back. They were too hifi for him, and I could see that for what he’s playing.
> 
> Think you’ll dig em. To me it’s a tighter, thicker faster 81 and I love all hose things about it.


sounds exactly what I want haha. Cheers dude.

Im juggling this Fender mod project in between family life so Im having to buy bits for it here and there.
With Xmas on the horizon money will be tied up on that, but new year Im going to make more an effort to get this project finished.

Looking forward to just getting them now. So sick of relying on the stock Ibanez INF pickups


----------



## BearOnGuitar

When I got my first Fluence set in 2015 I described the response as liquid at first, noticing the instantaneous response right away which caused me to play more consistent and felt like my playing was translating better through the Fluence set.


----------



## lewis

BearOnGuitar said:


> When I got my first Fluence set in 2015 I described the response as liquid at first, noticing the instantaneous response right away which caused me to play more consistent and felt like my playing was translating better through the Fluence set.


which is literally what Matt Heafy is describing.

Guess its clearly not all BS marketing hype at all.


----------



## Flappydoodle

LeviathanKiller said:


> Actually, I do notice a latency/speed thing. I think it's more about how they track with your playing. They respond faster somehow. I said this when I first got Fishman pickups before seeing any hype about such a thing and well before this video. Even though I don't like the tone as much as some of my other sets of pickups and I only use one voicing on bridge and neck, that and the clarity are the reasons why I keep them anyway. To each his own, I suppose.



Placebo effect. Or just the EQ of the pick attack region.

Clarity is one thing. But there is no logical explanation for how a pickup can be "faster" than another.



LeviathanKiller said:


> I need to see if I hear a difference swapping mine out then because I've had each of my Fluence-equipped guitars for 6 months and have yet to change the battery. I play them maybe only 6-10 hours a week though.



6-10 hours a week for 6 months is 150-260 hours. Good chance they're already dying, given that a 9V battery lasts "up to" 200 hours.



steinmetzify said:


> It’s not hype. I did a shootout with the Modern and the 81 and the Modern felt faster, more responsive, and tighter.



Tighter sure. But what does "faster" mean?

Guitars don't have latency. At least nothing remotely perceivable by humans.



lewis said:


> which is literally what Matt Heafy is describing.
> 
> Guess its clearly not all BS marketing hype at all.



It is absolutely BS marketing hype. Apply some basic critical thinking skills, and value those over peoples' opinions.

Matt was saying how he couldn't play in time with EMGs. Couldn't get locked in with the drummer because of some sort of latency from the pickups. That is utter nonsense.

A pickup is a physical device made from of wire wrapped around magnets. Or in Fishman's case, they use a magnet and PCBs. The vibrating string generates an electrical signal which travels through a few inches of wire and out of the guitar. There is no latency.

Use your common sense for a moment. We're talking about a drummer who is several meters away, and presumably Matt getting Alex in his in-ears, which has traveled through a microphone, several meters of cable, through a mixing desk, through a transmitter, through the air, then into Matt's receiver, then up more wire, into the earpiece and finally into his ears. If any of those things had latency, live music would be virtually impossible. Luckily, electrical signals travel around a million times faster than sound.

Heafy is waffling about "maybe it's a nanosecond or something". It's nonsense. No human can detect that. If you stand 4 meters away from your drummer, you have 12ms of latency just hearing him. Yet you're not going to feel any sort of difficulty playing in time. An increased latency of 3 ms would be caused by standing 1 meter further away from your speaker cabinet. Shit, there's a 1ms delay between your two ears. 

All Fishman gives you is an EQ bump around the pick attack region which makes it feel lively and responsible. People are hyping this to a ridiculous level.

Unless somebody can provide a rational explanation for how a pickup can be "faster", I put this all down to placebo induced by EQ.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

Well fishman's have for sure a really fast attack, but chances that Matt just can't play to a click are higher haha


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> Placebo effect. Or just the EQ of the pick attack region.
> 
> Clarity is one thing. But there is no logical explanation for how a pickup can be "faster" than another.
> 
> 
> 
> 6-10 hours a week for 6 months is 150-260 hours. Good chance they're already dying, given that a 9V battery lasts "up to" 200 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> Tighter sure. But what does "faster" mean?
> 
> Guitars don't have latency. At least nothing remotely perceivable by humans.
> 
> 
> 
> It is absolutely BS marketing hype. Apply some basic critical thinking skills, and value those over peoples' opinions.
> 
> Matt was saying how he couldn't play in time with EMGs. Couldn't get locked in with the drummer because of some sort of latency from the pickups. That is utter nonsense.
> 
> A pickup is a physical device made from of wire wrapped around magnets. Or in Fishman's case, they use a magnet and PCBs. The vibrating string generates an electrical signal which travels through a few inches of wire and out of the guitar. There is no latency.
> 
> Use your common sense for a moment. We're talking about a drummer who is several meters away, and presumably Matt getting Alex in his in-ears, which has traveled through a microphone, several meters of cable, through a mixing desk, through a transmitter, through the air, then into Matt's receiver, then up more wire, into the earpiece and finally into his ears. If any of those things had latency, live music would be virtually impossible. Luckily, electrical signals travel around a million times faster than sound.
> 
> Heafy is waffling about "maybe it's a nanosecond or something". It's nonsense. No human can detect that. If you stand 4 meters away from your drummer, you have 12ms of latency just hearing him. Yet you're not going to feel any sort of difficulty playing in time. An increased latency of 3 ms would be caused by standing 1 meter further away from your speaker cabinet. Shit, there's a 1ms delay between your two ears.
> 
> All Fishman gives you is an EQ bump around the pick attack region which makes it feel lively and responsible. People are hyping this to a ridiculous level.
> 
> Unless somebody can provide a rational explanation for how a pickup can be "faster", I put this all down to placebo induced by EQ.



Seems odd that they're all EQed to have a bump in the "pick attack region". Especially considering how many different types of picks I use without that response changing thus resulting in quite a wide span of "pick attack regions". 

LIKE I SAID, I'm pretty sure it's just how they track. Not some sort of "speed engineering" or bs.

When I'm playing these, string changes (moving to a different string) are quite apparent and palm mutes feel like I'm playing with a super tight gate. I'd say that can just be summed up by saying they have great clarity, honestly. It's just that it feels like more than the clarity most are used to with passive pickups.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

He's not wrong about the pick attack thing. The Classics in several guitars I tried are EXTREMELY bright. And my Modern-loaded V also has tons of attack. Like an EMG 81 on steroids. The KsE set I had as well had less low end and a more broad midrange than the 81 that was previously in the guitar, so it felt like it had more bite. Fluences are just voiced very brightly, except for the Devy set. By comparison, EMGs can sound a bit too smooth in the wrong guitar, which was the case with the guitar I threw KsEs into.


----------



## Flappydoodle

LeviathanKiller said:


> LIKE I SAID, I'm pretty sure it's just how they track. Not some sort of "speed engineering" or bs.



Totally agree re: clarity. They sound great.

But what does "how they track" mean?


----------



## lewis

i dont ever use tone knobs and normally prefer the sound with them removed from the circuit. Whats the situation with Fishmans and tone knobs then?
Presume I need it in for all voicing's? ( i have a 5 way blade switch too in this guitar)


----------



## Tisca

steinmetzify said:


> It’s not hype. I did a shootout with the Modern and the 81 and the Modern felt faster, more responsive, and tighter.
> 
> Dig em, it’s my favorite pickup for thrashy metal right now, followed closely by the Black Winter.
> 
> They’re not for everybody tho; recommended them to a good friend that plays doom and he sent em right back. They were too hifi for him, and I could see that for what he’s playing.
> 
> Think you’ll dig em. To me it’s a tighter, thicker faster 81 and I love all hose things about it.



That's exactly what I hoped the Modern to be so I'll finally order one. Bridge is enough. Now I just need to figure out what guitar to put it in.


----------



## mnemonic

Sounds like some people are getting tied up in terminology, using words to define sounds can get pretty murky and is always tainted by our preferences.

Maybe I’m also wrong but I’ve always thought that something that ‘tracks fast’ or ‘feels fast’ (as opposed to slow) is more to do with the response. Kinda like an ENGL amp tracks very fast and has little sag, whereas a Recto tracks slower, has more sag, etc, due to tube rectifiers or sagging power transformer. The bottom end just ‘moves slower’.

Obviously an active pickup doesn’t have a rectifier or transformer, but the preamp may be specifically designed for a very fast attack with little or no sag. Maybe the amplifier used in the pickup has a really fast slew rate or something.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Thats another thing I noticed with the KsE set. There was literally no sag in the low end. Made the EMG 81 seem like a Duncan Imvader.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> Totally agree re: clarity. They sound great.
> 
> But what does "how they track" mean?



Some pickups still "bloom" after you stop a palm mute and things like that. Like I said, it feels like you're playing with a tight gate.

EDIT: Just saw the posts after yours. What they're saying is what I'm also saying.


----------



## Tisca

So the battery pack is sold separately and I can run on a 9V battery but it won't last as long?
Has anyone tried 18V (Modern)? I like my EMG81 @ 18V.


----------



## Tisca

LeviathanKiller said:


> Some pickups still "bloom" after you stop a palm mute and things like that. Like I said, it feels like you're playing with a tight gate.



So do the Fishmans "bloom" after PMs or don't they?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Tisca said:


> So do the Fishmans "bloom" after PMs or don't they?


I know they don't on the Keith Merrow set using voice 1. When I hard stop them, THEY STOP. I can have them do the normal resonating bloom kinda thing if I use a lighter touch but I rarely do that. It's nice being able to so accurately control it though. Other pickups can get pretty bogged down here. You'd have to get something with a ceramic magnet at minimum to get that sort of tightness, in my experience, and it still might not be as tight as these. I have only one set of passive pickups that can do the same as these.



Tisca said:


> So the battery pack is sold separately and I can run on a 9V battery but it won't last as long?
> Has anyone tried 18V (Modern)? I like my EMG81 @ 18V.





> "I had a chat with the Fishman Support which told me running them higher than 18v, for example 24v would permanently damage some of the electronics. I was told 18v would be safe though. Thomann is able to order 7 string pickups now which means I'll get a pair soon."





> "From what the Fishman support told me their preamps are far superior to the preamps in EMGs or other pickups. Running the Fishmans at 9v should be equivalent to running EMGs on 18v or higher. Unfortunately, this is purely evaluating from only Ola's DIs, the Fishmans still sound quite compressed, not reaching the levels of dynamics that passive pickups have. I'm very interested in how these would sound using 18v. Would be great if their power supply could be switched between 9v and 18v."



SOURCE​


----------



## mnemonic

For those interested in the battery pack, that usb charging seems to be the main selling point. Bare in mind that you can get similar results (maybe better or worse, I havent conducted a study) using rechargeable lithium 9v batteries for a much lower cost.

I can’t find the current capacity for the battery listed on Fishman’s website, just: “Featuring a current capacity similar to a premium 9-volt alkaline battery”.

A quick google shows a Duracell 9v alkaline battery has a current capacity of 310 mAh (milliamp-hours). So we can probably assume it’s around that or maybe more.

The Energiser Ultimate Lithium 9v is stated to have around 750mAh to 1000mAh capacity and they clock in at around £10 each here in the UK.

the claim of performance not being affected by battery drain, unlike an alkaline battery where performance will suffer as the voltage drops over time, is more a function of how the battery works. lithium ion batteries tend to put out close to maximum voltage throughout the whole charge where alkaline and similar batteries, the voltage will drop the further it is discharged.

For example at 50% capacity, a 9v lithium battery should still provide close to 9v, where at 50% capacity, a 9v alkaline battery may be providing closer to 8 volts or something.

I assume not all lithium batteries are created equal so the Fishman may be some super-premium battery that is even better than a rechargeable lithium battery. Just something to keep in mind though, if you want improved performance over a normal alkaline throw-away battery, but don’t want to shell out for that Fishman battery pack.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

mnemonic said:


> For those interested in the battery pack, that usb charging seems to be the main selling point. Bare in mind that you can get similar results (maybe better or worse, I havent conducted a study) using rechargeable lithium 9v batteries for a much lower cost.
> 
> I can’t find the current capacity for the battery listed on Fishman’s website, just: “Featuring a current capacity similar to a premium 9-volt alkaline battery”.
> 
> A quick google shows a Duracell 9v alkaline battery has a current capacity of 310 mAh (milliamp-hours). So we can probably assume it’s around that or maybe more.
> 
> The Energiser Ultimate Lithium 9v is stated to have around 750mAh to 1000mAh capacity and they clock in at around £10 each here in the UK.
> 
> the claim of performance not being affected by battery drain, unlike an alkaline battery where performance will suffer as the voltage drops over time, is more a function of how the battery works. lithium ion batteries tend to put out close to maximum voltage throughout the whole charge where alkaline and similar batteries, the voltage will drop the further it is discharged.
> 
> For example at 50% capacity, a 9v lithium battery should still provide close to 9v, where at 50% capacity, a 9v alkaline battery may be providing closer to 8 volts or something.
> 
> I assume not all lithium batteries are created equal so the Fishman may be some super-premium battery that is even better than a rechargeable lithium battery. Just something to keep in mind though, if you want improved performance over a normal alkaline throw-away battery, but don’t want to shell out for that Fishman battery pack.



Lucky 8-string users can get the battery pack free when they buy a set. I wish the 7-string sets got it.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Flappydoodle said:


> Tighter sure. But what does "faster" mean?
> 
> Guitars don't have latency. At least nothing remotely perceivable by humans.



I know that; wasn't trying to spread misinformation, that why I said 'felt'....I think to me it has to do with the less exaggerated bass response that the 81s seem to have in comparison.

Tighter + less bass response = faster tracking especially on the low end, at least to me. Doesn't seem to be an isolated phenomenon in this thread though....


----------



## Meeotch

lewis said:


> Whats the situation with Fishmans and tone knobs then? Presume I need it in for all voicing's? ( i have a 5 way blade switch too in this guitar)



Nope, I just installed moderns without a tone pot and it works great. If you look at the Modern Humbucker Vol/Tone Wiring Diagram on their website, all you would do is remove the yellow wire going from the volume pot to tone pot, and remove the capacitor from the tone pot. Then you will have no tone adjustment in your signal, but can still use the push/pull switch for other functions if you like.


----------



## lewis

Meeotch said:


> Nope, I just installed moderns without a tone pot and it works great. If you look at the Modern Humbucker Vol/Tone Wiring Diagram on their website, all you would do is remove the yellow wire going from the volume pot to tone pot, and remove the capacitor from the tone pot. Then you will have no tone adjustment in your signal, but can still use the push/pull switch for other functions if you like.


ah thanks for this!
Huge help!

I already had plans to plug the Volume knob hole and relocate it to the Tone position, on my project guitar and didnt want to disrupt that.


----------



## Meeotch

Sure thing, and I did the same damn thing on my proj axe. It's an LTD and just like all ESP's, I always smack the volume knob when I'm getting after it. So I ripped everything out, EMG's and all, put in the moderns, and swapped the volume/tone positions. So now volume is nice and out of the way, pull for voice 2. Tone knob now gets smacked sometimes, but no matter because the knob itself is just for show. I wired tone pull for HF tilt but seriously couldn't hear a difference on or off, so I'm thinking I'll do tone pull for coil split now. 

Anyone else unable to hear the HF tilt when it's engaged? The saga continues...


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Back when I just wired my guitar for 2 push/pulls in anticipation for the TA set, I had the HF tilt on the moderns. It's very subtle, but as the name implies, it sounds like if you rolled off the very top end frequencies a bit. IIRC it's supposed to simulate the effect of using passives with a 30' cable. To me, HF tilt more like a set-and-forget option, since it really doesn't do much to your overall tone.


----------



## lewis

ok so based on the Fishman wiring diagrams I wont be able to do what I was planning?

Fishman moderns
5 way normal blade switch
Volume knob (no tone knob...literally just 1 knob on the guitar)
Strat recharge battery pack


I wanted Active and passive voicing's and even coil split using the 5 way if its possible?


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

lewis said:


> ok so based on the Fishman wiring diagrams I wont be able to do what I was planning?
> 
> Fishman moderns
> 5 way normal blade switch
> Volume knob (no tone knob...literally just 1 knob on the guitar)
> Strat recharge battery pack
> 
> 
> I wanted Active and passive voicing's and even coil split using the 5 way if its possible?


Sure you can, Tosin Abasi uses a very similar wiring for his set.

Push/pull volume for voice 1/2 switching
Positions 2 and 4 for coil splitting, but you'll need to use the solder pads on the pickups for accessing that. Some of the other models use the connector pins, but they haven't done that with the moderns.

You can do it how you want to, just don't expect it to have its own specific diagram - you'll most likely have to look at a couple to wire certain things like the modern coil split or the battery pack.


----------



## lewis

Indigo Shinigami said:


> Sure you can, Tosin Abasi uses a very similar wiring for his set.
> 
> Push/pull volume for voice 1/2 switching
> Positions 2 and 4 for coil splitting, but you'll need to use the solder pads on the pickups for accessing that. Some of the other models use the connector pins, but they haven't done that with the moderns.
> 
> You can do it how you want to, just don't expect it to have its own specific diagram - you'll most likely have to look at a couple to wire certain things like the modern coil split or the battery pack.


oh thanks for that. At least i know it CAN be done. If I pull up a few like you say, I can work it out I imagine.
Can I control what the split is too?
because I just want the bridge split to be furthest away coil and neck split to be closest to the fretboard coil


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> oh thanks for that. At least i know it CAN be done. If I pull up a few like you say, I can work it out I imagine.
> Can I control what the split is too?
> because I just want the bridge split to be furthest away coil and neck split to be closest to the fretboard coil


you can control the split, just wire the specific connector from the bridge split to position 2 , neck to position 4, etc.


----------



## op1e

LeviathanKiller said:


> Lucky 8-string users can get the battery pack free when they buy a set. I wish the 7-string sets got it.



They do. I been looking at this set on Zzounds for a week debating on pulling the trigger. $260 with free battery. I might wait. Think I wanna throw this Titan neck pickup in the bridge and get a Paf for the neck.


----------



## AirForbes1

lewis said:


> ok so based on the Fishman wiring diagrams I wont be able to do what I was planning?
> 
> Fishman moderns
> 5 way normal blade switch
> Volume knob (no tone knob...literally just 1 knob on the guitar)
> Strat recharge battery pack
> 
> 
> I wanted Active and passive voicing's and even coil split using the 5 way if its possible?



I don't know the difference between a normal 5 way, and a 5 way super switch. The 5 way super switch gets you what you want. Is it not possible to install one? I have no idea how much they cost, but they feel like they should be an inexpensive part.


----------



## Gmork

My tosin 8 set didnt come with the pack


----------



## op1e

Maybe I should jump on this now. Otherwise it costs me $99 later.
https://www.zzounds.com/item--FSMMH7S?siid=250916


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kinda wondering; anyone have any of the voicing wire harnesses they aren't using? I bought a set 2nd-hand that didn't even come with all the wiring, so I was forced to use one of the ones I had lying around. So the only thing I can do is change the voicing of the bridge pickup. Just wondering if anyone had an extra one lying around so I can also connect the neck pickup.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Gmork said:


> My tosin 8 set didnt come with the pack



You mean the battery pack? I don't think it comes standard with any pickup set (at least in my experience with moderns, classics, Tosin, KSE, KM). It's sold as a separate item.



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kinda wondering; anyone have any of the voicing wire harnesses they aren't using? I bought a set 2nd-hand that didn't even come with all the wiring, so I was forced to use one of the ones I had lying around. So the only thing I can do is change the voicing of the bridge pickup. Just wondering if anyone had an extra one lying around so I can also connect the neck pickup.



Have pics of what it looks like? I typically let my tech keep the leftovers, still, I may have some lying around, but I have no clue what to look for .


----------



## LeviathanKiller

op1e said:


> They do. I been looking at this set on Zzounds for a week debating on pulling the trigger. $260 with free battery. I might wait. Think I wanna throw this Titan neck pickup in the bridge and get a Paf for the neck.





Gmork said:


> My tosin 8 set didnt come with the pack





Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> You mean the battery pack? I don't think it comes standard with any pickup set (at least in my experience with moderns, classics, Tosin, KSE, KM). It's sold as a separate item.
> 
> 
> 
> Have pics of what it looks like? I typically let my tech keep the leftovers, still, I may have some lying around, but I have no clue what to look for .



The Tosin 8-string set is available at many sites with a free battery pack. The 7-string set does not.

The Moderns come with free battery packs for 6, 7, and 8 sets.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

I've also seen the Keith 7 set w/ free battery pack, and possibly the 6. I've only been able to find those deals from American Music Supply, but I haven't gone through google with a fine-tooth comb either.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Have pics of what it looks like? I typically let my tech keep the leftovers, still, I may have some lying around, but I have no clue what to look for .



Ithe 4 pin header connector with either a blue and green or orange and yellow wire. Theres also a 2 pin single wire connector but I cant remember the color.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

LeviathanKiller said:


> The Tosin 8-string set is available at many sites with a free battery pack. The 7-string set does not.
> 
> The Moderns come with free battery packs for 6, 7, and 8 sets.



Is that recent? None of my Fluence pickups (bought from MF or ebay in last year) ever came with a battery pack. Last one I got is the KM 6 set probably 3 months ago or so.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Indigo Shinigami said:


> I've also seen the Keith 7 set w/ free battery pack, and possibly the 6. I've only been able to find those deals from American Music Supply, but I haven't gone through google with a fine-tooth comb either.





Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Is that recent? None of my Fluence pickups (bought from MF or ebay in last year) ever came with a battery pack. Last one I got is the KM 6 set probably 3 months ago or so.



I only started shopping for the Tosin set about a month or so ago and have noticed since then. Appears to be zZounds and American Musical. Don't see the combo deal on Musician's Friend or Sweetwater.

They specifically state it as a separate item, just that you're getting it free.


----------



## lewis

its getting to the point where apart from my Ibanez which is getting the Dimebucker treatment (yes yes - Its a nostalgic nod and abit of fun) everything else of mine will probably be Fishman.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Yeah, I'm definitely getting there. I really want one of the new Schecter 7s with Fishmans in them, either a C-7 Elite, or a KM-7 MK-II/III with Keith's set. Leaning towards the latter, despite the QC issues people have had with them. Seems the most like what I'd want in a 7 string.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Indigo Shinigami said:


> Yeah, I'm definitely getting there. I really want one of the new Schecter 7s with Fishmans in them, either a C-7 Elite, or a KM-7 MK-II/III with Keith's set. Leaning towards the latter, despite the QC issues people have had with them. Seems the most like what I'd want in a 7 string.



Just get the MK-II with them
Stay WAYYYY clear of the MK-III though unless you get to inspect it in person before buying. Schecter themselves will send you a crappy one. (Source: they sent one to me after I had already gotten 2 turds from zZounds)


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Ithe 4 pin header connector with either a blue and green or orange and yellow wire. Theres also a 2 pin single wire connector but I cant remember the color.
> 
> View attachment 65364



Hey...just checked, and I have the blue/green one, pls pm me your mailing address, I'll do my best to mail it tomorrow.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

LeviathanKiller said:


> Just get the MK-II with them
> Stay WAYYYY clear of the MK-III though unless you get to inspect it in person before buying. Schecter themselves will send you a crappy one. (Source: they sent one to me after I had already gotten 2 turds from zZounds)


Yeah, that whole debacle was exactly what I was referring to. It's a shame that they kept having those issues, but thankfully, I like the MK-II flame maple tops more anyway. I'm thinking of getting the natural and finding someone to do a fade finish on it, since I really liked how they look on the SLS Elite models. That and adding a little toggle switch for voice switching like the MK-III has. 

(Section that's probably for the wrong thread so apologies in advance)
I was also tempted on getting that used MK-III on GC sent to my local store to check out/return, but that's still a good chunk of cash and hassle just to see what at least the body would be like. Definitely want to find out more about the MK-II, especially compared to the original KM models, which were the only ones I managed to find in the wild before


----------



## Shask

I never got a battery pack with my Modern set.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Shask said:


> I never got a battery pack with my Modern set.


It's a newer deal that some sites are doing, not a normal thing that Fishman does (except for the Greg Koch tele set). They just throw in the battery packs that are normally separate for free with specific Fishman pickups.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Shask said:


> I never got a battery pack with my Modern set.



Oh dear. Is the rest of this thread is going to be filled with comments in the vein of "_I never got a battery pack with my <insert Fishman pickup set>_" ?

It's a _recent _offering on only _some_ of the sets and only at _specific_ retailers.

Read my previous posts and just chill. You weren't singled out to not be given a free battery pack


----------



## Shask

LeviathanKiller said:


> Oh dear. Is the rest of this thread is going to be filled with comments in the vein of "_I never got a battery pack with my <insert Fishman pickup set>_" ?


Yup..... We all demand our battery packs!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Shask said:


> Yup..... We all demand our battery packs!


I always do feel bitter when I buy something and it shortly after goes on sale or becomes a combo deal etc. :s


----------



## gunch

Wait what's wrong with the KM mk. III?


----------



## Albake21

silverabyss said:


> Wait what's wrong with the KM mk. III?


Major QC problems. You can go take a look over at the KM7 thread.


----------



## gunch

With the splitting and voicing options a fluence has could you get by with just a single bridge pickup and 1 volume?



Albake21 said:


> Major QC problems. You can go take a look over at the KM7 thread.



Dang alright


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

I mean, if you want 2-3 different bridge pickups in one, then sure it will. They still haven't found a way to make a bridge voicing sound like a neck pickup... yet.


----------



## gunch

Indigo Shinigami said:


> I mean, if you want 2-3 different bridge pickups in one, then sure it will. They still haven't found a way to make a bridge voicing sound like a neck pickup... yet.



Truth be told I'm not even after neck pickup solo tones, just decent cleans and brutal riffing/chug


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

silverabyss said:


> Truth be told I'm not even after neck pickup solo tones, just decent cleans and brutal riffing/chug


Then yes, most Fishman pickups will do that for you, although all the sigs come in sets, so unless you want the modern or classic bridges, they're not the most cost effective.


----------



## Tisca

Battery pack; are you supposed to drill a hole in the back cover so that the charging port part fits through?


----------



## lewis

Tisca said:


> Battery pack; are you supposed to drill a hole in the back cover so that the charging port part fits through?


Yes thats exactly how it works.

It comes with adhesive pads I believe too to mount it to the back of the surface you drill the hole out from.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I'm gonna wait until we have wireless charging guitar racks...


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'm gonna wait until we have wireless charging guitar racks...



...and they become included with purchase.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Heck, I'd be cool if they made a guitar rack version of a pedalboard power supply, essentially. 

Step 1: Give each slot its own usb charging cord.
Step 2: Plug it into the wall.
Step 3: ??????
Step 4: Profit


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Indigo Shinigami said:


> Heck, I'd be cool if they made a guitar rack version of a pedalboard power supply, essentially.
> 
> Step 1: Give each slot its own usb charging cord.
> Step 2: Plug it into the wall.
> Step 3: ??????
> Step 4: Profit


I actually run a USB charging cable out of my rack box lol


----------



## op1e

I've been denying myself joy as a matter of adulting. But I just had a big effit moment and pulled the trigger at a quarter till 5 so they'd be here Friday. Will get my tech hopefully to do them that night, woo! Brushed stainless with free battery pack. I have a flat black RGD for them.


----------



## op1e

Someone defaced it with a giant killswitch the size of a silver dollar. Gonna have my tech take it out and put the volume back where it's supposed to be. Will have to use something to cover the hole. Or maybe put the toggle switches there. I hear there's a -6db that can be toggled too? Hows the single coil sounds, I'm looking forward to usable cleans again.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

op1e said:


> I've been denying myself joy as a matter of adulting. But I just had a big effit moment and pulled the trigger at a quarter till 5 so they'd be here Friday. Will get my tech hopefully to do them that night, woo! Brushed stainless with free battery pack. I have a flat black RGD for them.





op1e said:


> Someone defaced it with a giant killswitch the size of a silver dollar. Gonna have my tech take it out and put the volume back where it's supposed to be. Will have to use something to cover the hole. Or maybe put the toggle switches there. I hear there's a -6db that can be toggled too? Hows the single coil sounds, I'm looking forward to usable cleans again.


I get the feeling the brushed steel pickups will look pretty sick in that guitar. There's an option to tone down the gain of Voice 1, and from what I've tried/heard, they aren't the most split coil sounding, but I also got some good cleans out of the voice 2 humbucker in the modern set (into a Helix), so split in v2 should work just fine. But I also have a TA set in my 6 string which has some of my favorite single coil tones with voice 3, so I'm a little biased to that as it is.


----------



## op1e

Cool, thanks. I just always fight feedback and overdriven cleans with this rm100. I'm already running into the active input of my Patchmate but it's not enough. Almost thought about getting an XLR to 1/4 adapter and trying my DI box on top of that lol. Maybe just need an EQ to bump some more level down.


----------



## op1e

I would think Voice 2 and split would be the way, fatter sounding.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

op1e said:


> Cool, thanks. I just always fight feedback and overdriven cleans with this rm100. I'm already running into the active input of my Patchmate but it's not enough. Almost thought about getting an XLR to 1/4 adapter and trying my DI box on top of that lol. Maybe just need an EQ to bump some more level down.





op1e said:


> I would think Voice 2 and split would be the way, fatter sounding.


It'll be both fatter, and less likely to cause amp breakup/overdrive, at least that was the case for me. Voice 1 still does that though, if you ever decide you want that sound again.


----------



## op1e

So... I'm having that big ugly killswitch removed. Put the bridge volume back there. Hole will have to be plugged up a little. New volume pot towards the back can be neck pickup volume (cause I dont use tone knobs). So voice 1/2 on the first volume pot and single coil on the other? Or I could stick with one volume and just add another 3 way toggle back there.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

op1e said:


> So... I'm having that big ugly killswitch removed. Put the bridge volume back there. Hole will have to be plugged up a little. New volume pot towards the back can be neck pickup volume (cause I dont use tone knobs). So voice 1/2 on the first volume pot and single coil on the other? Or I could stick with one volume and just add another 3 way toggle back there.


The two volume pots for voice switching and single coil should work fine. Don't know what you'd have as the third setting for a 3 way toggle, considering the single coil mode isn't tied to a specific voice, meaning you could use it with voice 1 if you so chose.


----------



## juka

Does one of the new battery pack owners know how many mAh these have?
I didn't find it on their website but maybe it can be found on the battery itself.

Regular 9V rechargeable lithium batteries can be found with everything between 200 and 600 mAh, so it would be interesting if the battery back was in this range or delivered more.


----------



## Gmork

juka said:


> Does one of the new battery pack owners know how many mAh these have?
> I didn't find it on their website but maybe it can be found on the battery itself.
> 
> Regular 9V rechargeable lithium batteries can be found with everything between 200 and 600 mAh, so it would be interesting if the battery back was in this range or delivered more.


What should us 9v battery users look for in a rechargeable for the fishman? The most mAh? Orrr?


----------



## mnemonic

Gmork said:


> What should us 9v battery users look for in a rechargeable for the fishman? The most mAh? Orrr?



The higher the better (as long as it’s 9 volts) 

Lithium ion is the best bet, iirc it’s voltage drops the least (compared to other types of battery) as the charge is depleted.


----------



## Strobe

juka said:


> Does one of the new battery pack owners know how many mAh these have?
> I didn't find it on their website but maybe it can be found on the battery itself.
> 
> Regular 9V rechargeable lithium batteries can be found with everything between 200 and 600 mAh, so it would be interesting if the battery back was in this range or delivered more.



The battery packs are supposed to last up to about 300 hours, and most of the battery sets drain about 5 mA, so the rechargeable pack has got to be in the 1500 mAh range. I have 3 guitars with battery packs and 2 with regular 9V (non-rechargeable). The battery pack lasts a little bit longer in my experience; and I think a non-rechargeable 9V has a longer life than the rechargeable.


----------



## juka

Sounds plausible, just found out that a really high-end 9V lithium battery (non-rechargeable) offers 1200 mAh.

Just did a price check: You can get like 20 of these high-end 9V lithium batteries (non-rechargeable) for the price of one Fishman universal battery pack.


----------



## Flappydoodle

juka said:


> Sounds plausible, just found out that a really high-end 9V lithium battery (non-rechargeable) offers 1200 mAh.
> 
> Just did a price check: You can get like 20 of these high-end 9V lithium batteries (non-rechargeable) for the price of one Fishman universal battery pack.



You get "up to" 200 hours from a 9V battery, which isn't very much at all.

If you're a heavy user, I can see the 9V battery pack making sense. However, the 3hr recharge time is a bummer. That's not as convenient as a quick 9V battery swap.


----------



## Iceblade

Does anyone know WHERE I can order the non-soapbar version of the Abasi 7-string set (PRF-MS7-TB2)? I can't find it being sold at any online or local retailer here in the Houston area. Fishman support was less than helpful and basically said, "We don't know what dealer will sell you these, but good luck!"

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Iceblade said:


> Does anyone know WHERE I can order the non-soapbar version of the Abasi 7-string set (PRF-MS7-TB2)? I can't find it being sold at any online or local retailer here in the Houston area. Fishman support was less than helpful and basically said, "We don't know what dealer will sell you these, but good luck!"
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeff



Never purchased from them before jsyk
https://www.spectrumaudio.com/fishm...tosin-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel/


----------



## Iceblade

LeviathanKiller said:


> Never purchased from them before jsyk
> https://www.spectrumaudio.com/fishm...tosin-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel/



Thanks, man! And they have an office here in Houston, to boot! I'll hit them up and see what's what. Thanks again!

Regards,
Jeff


----------



## lewis

Ordered the FIshman FLuence Modern set today in Brushed Steel.
welp!. Expensive but I cant wait!


----------



## op1e

I got the same ones Friday (brushed passive size). Got the guitar to my tech yesterday and compounding problems. Install has gone up from $50 to $130. There's no room in the control cavity of the RGD for the depth of a push pull and the battery pack/usb port thingy. He would have to route and use a mini toggle for Voice 1/2 and then the push/pull towards the back for single coil. I should just dump the battery I guess if its gonna cost this much extra. Save it for another project.


----------



## goose_78

If it’s been answered before, I apologize. How would one go about wiring a modern set with a three way blade and one knob? I’d like to keep the push pull, but if I had to I could go without.


----------



## AirForbes1

op1e said:


> I got the same ones Friday (brushed passive size). Got the guitar to my tech yesterday and compounding problems. Install has gone up from $50 to $130. There's no room in the control cavity of the RGD for the depth of a push pull and the battery pack/usb port thingy. He would have to route and use a mini toggle for Voice 1/2 and then the push/pull towards the back for single coil. I should just dump the battery I guess if its gonna cost this much extra. Save it for another project.



I have to assume this is a fixed bridge guitar. In case it's not, I've been told that the strat battery pack fits (trem cover). Just in case......


----------



## Reet

LeviathanKiller said:


> Never purchased from them before jsyk
> https://www.spectrumaudio.com/fishm...tosin-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel/



I special ordered mine through Sweetwater. I just called Fishman and they told me basically any dealer can order them.


----------



## op1e

AirForbes1 said:


> I have to assume this is a fixed bridge guitar. In case it's not, I've been told that the strat battery pack fits (trem cover). Just in case......


Ya its an RGD7421.


----------



## op1e

goose_78 said:


> If it’s been answered before, I apologize. How would one go about wiring a modern set with a three way blade and one knob? I’d like to keep the push pull, but if I had to I could go without.


You need a mini switch to coil tap then. Could use a 2 way just for single coil, or a 3 way for that and HF Tilt and lower gain.


----------



## lewis

op1e said:


> You need a mini switch to coil tap then. Could use a 2 way just for single coil, or a 3 way for that and HF Tilt and lower gain.


following that up can a 5 way instead include the single coil sounds?


----------



## op1e

I would imagine. They're 4 way connectors like EMG TW.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

lewis said:


> following that up can a 5 way instead include the single coil sounds?


That's how Tosin Abasi wires his set. He has the inner coils in position 2, and neck outer on position 4.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

A friend of mine wants to upgrade his Ibanez RGIT20FE with Fishman's. What would we recommend him for modern metal tones ? My guess would be the DT set because it's a pretty bright guitar (maple neck thru with ash wings), and I'm feeling like the Moderns might be a tad too bright ?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheUnknownOne said:


> A friend of mine wants to upgrade his Ibanez RGIT20FE with Fishman's. What would we recommend him for modern metal tones ? My guess would be the DT set because it's a pretty bright guitar (maple neck thru with ash wings), and I'm feeling like the Moderns might be a tad too bright ?



Sounds about right. The DT set seems to be a set of Moderns, just with a rolled off high end and the midrange peak shifted lower.


----------



## op1e

I just got my RGD back from the good sir Curran Murphy (Nevermore, Shatter Messiah, Sunless Sky). He did a great job wiring up and fixing my horror story with some ugly home depot killswitch that was installed by a previous owner. Wow does the split coil rule. Voice 2 is so punchy, so much JB there. Voice 1 though, argh. Really bright 81. I'm gonna have to run a post eq and scoop some mids. Maybe I'll go back and have him jumper the the low gain and HF tilt later too. I dunno, I gotta really reset my whole rig. Everything is great but I'm fighting feedback with multiple gates.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/CustomA...album&album_id=2184527188311221&__tn__=-UCH-R


----------



## lewis

My Fishman Modern set in brushed stainless steel came in. Boy they look beautiful.

I cant wait to get them installed!


----------



## TheUnknownOne

lewis said:


> My Fishman Modern set in brushed stainless steel came in. Boy they look beautiful.
> 
> I cant wait to get them installed!



Pics or it didn't happen !


----------



## lewis

TheUnknownOne said:


> Pics or it didn't happen !


haha good point


----------



## lewis

TheUnknownOne said:


> Pics or it didn't happen !


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds about right. The DT set seems to be a set of Moderns, just with a rolled off high end and the midrange peak shifted lower.


That's my experience of the Devins, too.
At least for V1, the Tele-like SC voice (V2?) is pretty unique though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SO, this is a little curious...

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...er_of_rammstein_he_fights_with_the_least.html



> But I recently changed my pickups – I went from EMG to Fishman [Richard was a longtime user of EMG 81’s]. I created my own pickups with Fishman which has a little more of a mid-range.



Rammstein Fishman pickups in the future?


----------



## FenderBluesAAA

How do these pickups work? It's probably been answered but I can't find it. I heard they don't have a preamp like other actives and that the battery powers the technology. But what is the technology that is being powered? I hear about passive voice and active voice. Does the passive voice not use the battery or something? Or is this like a digital pickup? What's happening?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

FenderBluesAAA said:


> How do these pickups work? It's probably been answered but I can't find it. I heard they don't have a preamp like other actives and that the battery powers the technology. But what is the technology that is being powered? I hear about passive voice and active voice. Does the passive voice not use the battery or something? Or is this like a digital pickup? What's happening?



They're definitely active. There's a preamp on-board that helps shape the tone. 

The voicings are just that; voicings. They're still active, but retain a voice. Like, an active voice is meant to compress like an active, and the passive voice is meant to be more open like a passive.


----------



## CloudsUr

What would you guys put on a 7 string aristides? I'm planning a build for early 2019 and i'm pretty thorn between Modern or Classic set.

My main band at the moment is a slightly proggy, slightly metalcore-ish band, but i home record quite a bit on my own so versatility is a big selling point for me.
I guess the real question is whether the classics work better with high gain then the moderns do with more rolled back tones or viceversa.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

CloudsUr said:


> What would you guys put on a 7 string aristides? I'm planning a build for early 2019 and i'm pretty thorn between Modern or Classic set.
> 
> My main band at the moment is a slightly proggy, slightly metalcore-ish band, but i home record quite a bit on my own so versatility is a big selling point for me.
> I guess the real question is whether the classics work better with high gain then the moderns do with more rolled back tones or viceversa.



With the Classics being pretty similar to the Keith Merrow set, I'd say Classics from my experience with the KM set


----------



## AirForbes1

If you're looking for versatility, wouldn't the Abasi set be the choice? I have no first hand experience with any of the sets. Just what I've read here and watched online.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

AirForbes1 said:


> If you're looking for versatility, wouldn't the Abasi set be the choice? I have no first hand experience with any of the sets. Just what I've read here and watched online.



I just got the Abasi set and don't feel like it's better for lower gain versatility


----------



## juka

LeviathanKiller said:


> I just got the Abasi set and don't feel like it's better for lower gain versatility


Hmm, good to know. You probably saved me from a big disappointment and losing money, because I was G.A.S.ing for them in the hope of increased versatility vs. the Moderns.


----------



## AirForbes1

LeviathanKiller said:


> I just got the Abasi set and don't feel like it's better for lower gain versatility



That's good to know. Thanks.


----------



## CloudsUr

LeviathanKiller said:


> I just got the Abasi set and don't feel like it's better for lower gain versatility


 As much as i like Tosin's playing i have never really been a fan of his tone.
Way too hi-fi for me; i'm a sucker for clarity under gain but he almost sounds like playing through a clean channel even with heavily distorted tones if that makes sense.
Not really my cup of tea.


----------



## Strobe

AirForbes1 said:


> If you're looking for versatility, wouldn't the Abasi set be the choice? I have no first hand experience with any of the sets. Just what I've read here and watched online.



For versatility, I would get the classics. The difference between voice 1 and voice 2 is more distinct. These have what I would consider the best humbucker sound versatility. The PAF voice is good for anything a PAF is good for (which is most things), and the voice 2 is a much more aggressive chug in the bridge with a great solo tone in the neck.

The Tosin set has a much subtler difference between voice 1 and voice 2, so I feel they cover less range. Both are a modern sounding humbucker. A little bit thicker sounding than the moderns. Voice 3 on the Tosins is a really good single coil sound; truly stellar, and very stratty.

So if the versatility you want is a variety of humbucker tones, go with the classics. They are the best all arounders in my opinion. If clean single coil tones is the kind of variety you want added, the Tosins are that set.


----------



## AirForbes1

Strobe said:


> For versatility, I would get the classics. The difference between voice 1 and voice 2 is more distinct. These have what I would consider the best humbucker sound versatility. The PAF voice is good for anything a PAF is good for (which is most things), and the voice 2 is a much more aggressive chug in the bridge with a great solo tone in the neck.
> 
> The Tosin set has a much subtler difference between voice 1 and voice 2, so I feel they cover less range. Both are a modern sounding humbucker. A little bit thicker sounding than the moderns. Voice 3 on the Tosins is a really good single coil sound; truly stellar, and very stratty.
> 
> So if the versatility you want is a variety of humbucker tones, go with the classics. They are the best all arounders in my opinion. If clean single coil tones is the kind of variety you want added, the Tosins are that set.



Cheers. Thanks very much. I had (mistakenly) come to the conclusion that the Tosins kind of had a Voice 1 modern, voice 2 classic, + single coil type of thing going on. On paper, they seemed like the most broad ranging set. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## op1e

I had practice Saturday and dialed stuff in better under extreme volume. Single coil in the moderns is good too. I would forget I still had the knob pulled up. With compression could pull off staccato riffing pretty well. Voice 2 was a bit much for low A or G, but was totally the ticket for fattening drop C up. I used post eq to take some edge off the mids and highs. I was fighting feedback until I lowered the pickup a good bit and then it was very controllable.


----------



## mnemonic

Oops, accidental mobile post, ignore me


----------



## CloudsUr

Strobe said:


> For versatility, I would get the classics. The difference between voice 1 and voice 2 is more distinct. These have what I would consider the best humbucker sound versatility. The PAF voice is good for anything a PAF is good for (which is most things), and the voice 2 is a much more aggressive chug in the bridge with a great solo tone in the neck.
> 
> The Tosin set has a much subtler difference between voice 1 and voice 2, so I feel they cover less range. Both are a modern sounding humbucker. A little bit thicker sounding than the moderns. Voice 3 on the Tosins is a really good single coil sound; truly stellar, and very stratty.
> 
> So if the versatility you want is a variety of humbucker tones, go with the classics. They are the best all arounders in my opinion. If clean single coil tones is the kind of variety you want added, the Tosins are that set.


Yeah, i'm mainly after humbucker tones.
Single coils are something that is nice to have and that i usually find a way to use IF i have it, but not something i go after directly.
That said doesn't the latest revision of the classic set also have a single coil voice 3?


----------



## TheUnknownOne

Have you seen Josh Middleton's new Esp custom ? Features a Modern bridge with a Classic neck, sounds like a sweet configuration !

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrgITxihkvK/


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheUnknownOne said:


> Have you seen Josh Middleton's new Esp custom ? Features a Modern bridge with a Classic neck, sounds like a sweet configuration !
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BrgITxihkvK/



That would be one of my ideal configs. The Classic neck is fucking killer. I'm not too fond of the Modern neck. I wish they modeled the Modern neck more after the 81 than the 85.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That would be one of my ideal configs. The Classic neck is fucking killer. I'm not too fond of the Modern neck. I wish they modeled the Modern neck more after the 81 than the 85.


I might buy another set for another guitar but make that set the classic and just swap the neck pups around so I have Modern/classic in 1 guitar and classic/modern in the other


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ...I wish they modeled the Modern neck more after the 81 than the 85.


So why not use a Modern Ceramic in the neck? Maybe that's what the -6db switch is for ;-)


----------



## setsuna7

Can we buy them separately? All I can see at online stores(mainly ebay and amazon) comes in pairs, I know that the sigs are not sold separately.


----------



## Strobe

setsuna7 said:


> Can we buy them separately? All I can see at online stores(mainly ebay and amazon) comes in pairs, I know that the sigs are not sold separately.



Yep. I bought a Modern Alnico for my Jackson RR24M (single pickup guitar). I only needed the one, and I specifically wanted the one that usually goes in the neck for this guitar.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hey i have a question for you guys who are a bit more knowledgeable about wiring fishmans.

I just got the devin townsend set last night and I need a bit of help of how I am going to wire this since fishman sucks for diagrams. I am having to look at 2-3 separate diagrams from different sets just to try to get an idea of what I might I have to do, but it is all speculation for me.

I plan on having the setup as follows:

Volume 1: just a regular volume pot for the bridge

Volume 2: Volume for the neck, but also I plan on having it in a push/pull to activate the voice setting humbucker (passive)

Tone: I plan on having this be the master tone and having it be a push pull to activate the single coil sounds.

Any help with this to help me understand how to wire this or give me some clarification would be great! I tried asking fishman tech support like 2 months ago asking if they could make me a diagram for that setup and they said that they couldn't do it. I called them last week to ask about wiring 2 push pull pots to activate one voice per each and they gave me clarification for that, but other than that I am still pretty much in the dark on how to wire this properly and I do not feel like ending up fucking it to the point where I get frustrated with my new purchase that I have been anticipating for 3 months now.

I would really appreciate your guy's help with this.


----------



## CapinCripes

Im honestly thinking about trying a modern set for My Rhoads. I am not getting along at all with the 81x/60x that is in there currently. I was considering the classic set but im worried that would sound more burstbucker than 80's hot rod.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> So why not use a Modern Ceramic in the neck? Maybe that's what the -6db switch is for ;-)



Because i feel the Fluence Bridge is closer to the 81, and IMO there's more to the EMG 60 (my favorite active neck pickup) than being a lower output ceramic pickup.


----------



## Strobe

CapinCripes said:


> Im honestly thinking about trying a modern set for My Rhoads. I am not getting along at all with the 81x/60x that is in there currently. I was considering the classic set but im worried that would sound more burstbucker than 80's hot rod.



I would not be worried. Voice 1 is more burstbucker. Voice 2 is much more 80's hot rod. Voice 2 bridge is in the vicinity of a JB. Voice 2 neck feels a lot like a jazz with more low end and a less plinky high end. This is not to say the JB/Jazz are bad, but I prefer the classics.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hey i have a question for you guys who are a bit more knowledgeable about wiring fishmans.
> 
> I just got the devin townsend set last night and I need a bit of help of how I am going to wire this since fishman sucks for diagrams. I am having to look at 2-3 separate diagrams from different sets just to try to get an idea of what I might I have to do, but it is all speculation for me.
> 
> I plan on having the setup as follows:
> 
> Volume 1: just a regular volume pot for the bridge
> 
> Volume 2: Volume for the neck, but also I plan on having it in a push/pull to activate the voice setting humbucker (passive)
> 
> Tone: I plan on having this be the master tone and having it be a push pull to activate the single coil sounds.
> 
> Any help with this to help me understand how to wire this or give me some clarification would be great! I tried asking fishman tech support like 2 months ago asking if they could make me a diagram for that setup and they said that they couldn't do it. I called them last week to ask about wiring 2 push pull pots to activate one voice per each and they gave me clarification for that, but other than that I am still pretty much in the dark on how to wire this properly and I do not feel like ending up fucking it to the point where I get frustrated with my new purchase that I have been anticipating for 3 months now.
> 
> I would really appreciate your guy's help with this.


Assuming you only need help with the voice wiring:

Volume 2 - connect the green and orange wires to the push/pull for voice 2

Master Tone - connect the blue and yellow wires for coil split

Other than that, everything else should be fairly straight-forward from there.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Okay, so far having the Modern set and the Tosin Abasi set both in Schecter C-7 SLS Elite guitars (one is hardtail, one is Floyd Rose), my thoughts are:

The Modern set in voice 1 is warmer than the Tosin Abasi set in voice 1 and even voice 2
The Modern bridge feels a bit tighter than the Tosin Abasi set imo
The Tosin Abasi set bridge seems kinda scooped actually in comparison to the Modern bridge
The Tosin Abasi set appears to be higher output than the Modern set surprisingly
The difference between voice 1 and 2 on the neck of the Tosin Abasi set is hardly noticeable imo when compared to that of the Modern set's voices

Exactly like what happened when I got the Modern set thinking I would like it better than the Keith Merrow set, I got the Tosin set thinking I would like it better than the Modern set...and I was wrong. The TA set seems harsher which is something I was wanting to get away from. I'm sure voice 3 really opens up things to being versatile but overall I feel like it's not as versatile as the other sets. Low gain with the TA set is so harsh compared to the Modern set. 

For me so far:
Keith Merrow > Modern > Tosin Abasi

I think this closes out my experimentation with Fishman Fluence pickups honestly. Seems like the Keith Merrow set is gonna be the one I like most and that's that


----------



## TheUnknownOne

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so far having the Modern set and the Tosin Abasi set both in Schecter C-7 SLS Elite guitars (one is hardtail, one is Floyd Rose), my thoughts are:
> 
> The Modern set in voice 1 is warmer than the Tosin Abasi set in voice 1 and even voice 2
> The Modern bridge feels a bit tighter than the Tosin Abasi set imo
> The Tosin Abasi set bridge seems kinda scooped actually in comparison to the Modern bridge
> The Tosin Abasi set appears to be higher output than the Modern set surprisingly
> The difference between voice 1 and 2 on the neck of the Tosin Abasi set is hardly noticeable imo when compared to that of the Modern set's voices
> 
> Exactly like what happened when I got the Modern set thinking I would like it better than the Keith Merrow set, I got the Tosin set thinking I would like it better than the Modern set...and I was wrong. The TA set seems harsher which is something I was wanting to get away from. I'm sure voice 3 really opens up things to being versatile but overall I feel like it's not as versatile as the other sets. Low gain with the TA set is so harsh compared to the Modern set.
> 
> For me so far:
> Keith Merrow > Modern > Tosin Abasi
> 
> I think this closes out my experimentation with Fishman Fluence pickups honestly. Seems like the Keith Merrow set is gonna be the one I like most and that's that



Interesting... And did you try the Classics in that guitar ?


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so far having the Modern set and the Tosin Abasi set both in Schecter C-7 SLS Elite guitars (one is hardtail, one is Floyd Rose), my thoughts are:
> 
> The Modern set in voice 1 is warmer than the Tosin Abasi set in voice 1 and even voice 2
> The Modern bridge feels a bit tighter than the Tosin Abasi set imo
> The Tosin Abasi set bridge seems kinda scooped actually in comparison to the Modern bridge
> The Tosin Abasi set appears to be higher output than the Modern set surprisingly
> The difference between voice 1 and 2 on the neck of the Tosin Abasi set is hardly noticeable imo when compared to that of the Modern set's voices
> 
> Exactly like what happened when I got the Modern set thinking I would like it better than the Keith Merrow set, I got the Tosin set thinking I would like it better than the Modern set...and I was wrong. The TA set seems harsher which is something I was wanting to get away from. I'm sure voice 3 really opens up things to being versatile but overall I feel like it's not as versatile as the other sets. Low gain with the TA set is so harsh compared to the Modern set.
> 
> For me so far:
> Keith Merrow > Modern > Tosin Abasi
> 
> I think this closes out my experimentation with Fishman Fluence pickups honestly. Seems like the Keith Merrow set is gonna be the one I like most and that's that


Surprising results. I may have to try the KM set for my 6 when I'm not focusing on other guitars. I wonder how the TA and KM/Classic single coil voices compare to each other, since having that is one of their main draws to me.


----------



## TheUnknownOne

A bit off-topic but I'm planning to buy my first guitar with Fishman's ! At first I wanted to buy an LTD Evertune and fit pups next, but after months of waiting I managed to try one and ... the beast weighted something like 11lbs ! Big turn off for me since I've got a bunch of gigs planned next year.

So right now I'm hesitating between a Shecter C1 SLS Elite in Black fade or an LTD MH1001NT with a set of Fishman Moderns. Both are exactly the same price pickups included, and I'm loving the look of both equally. TOM vs Hipshot is not even a concern for me. What could be a concern is the neck profile, and the fretwork. Sometimes I feel like the big fat XJumbo frets on LTDs get on my way when playing past 14th fret. 

Maybe someone owning both an LTD Deluxe and a Shecter C1 SLS Elite could give me a wise advice ?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hey would you mind breaking down what you like about the km set? If you could really go into detail about them go right ahead, there isnt too much info on them. Interested in trying them in my usa



Indigo Shinigami said:


> Surprising results. I may have to try the KM set for my 6 when I'm not focusing on other guitars. I wonder how the TA and KM/Classic single coil voices compare to each other, since having that is one of their main draws to me.


----------



## AirForbes1

Thanks for the info on the Abasi set. I was convinced they were going to be the set for me. It seems like the most versatile set is the set Josh Middleton put together with a modern bridge and classic neck.


----------



## Gmork

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so far having the Modern set and the Tosin Abasi set both in Schecter C-7 SLS Elite guitars (one is hardtail, one is Floyd Rose), my thoughts are:
> 
> The Modern set in voice 1 is warmer than the Tosin Abasi set in voice 1 and even voice 2
> The Modern bridge feels a bit tighter than the Tosin Abasi set imo
> The Tosin Abasi set bridge seems kinda scooped actually in comparison to the Modern bridge
> The Tosin Abasi set appears to be higher output than the Modern set surprisingly
> The difference between voice 1 and 2 on the neck of the Tosin Abasi set is hardly noticeable imo when compared to that of the Modern set's voices
> 
> Exactly like what happened when I got the Modern set thinking I would like it better than the Keith Merrow set, I got the Tosin set thinking I would like it better than the Modern set...and I was wrong. The TA set seems harsher which is something I was wanting to get away from. I'm sure voice 3 really opens up things to being versatile but overall I feel like it's not as versatile as the other sets. Low gain with the TA set is so harsh compared to the Modern set.
> 
> For me so far:
> Keith Merrow > Modern > Tosin Abasi
> 
> I think this closes out my experimentation with Fishman Fluence pickups honestly. Seems like the Keith Merrow set is gonna be the one I like most and that's that


Tosin harsh in what way!? Hope i end up liking mine


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hey would you mind breaking down what you like about the km set? If you could really go into detail about them go right ahead, there isnt too much info on them. Interested in trying them in my usa


LeviathanKiller would be the main one to ask about that, since he's had a chance to sit down with them and play them through his rig. I mainly enjoy both Keith's and Tosin's work, and while I do have the latter's set, I've only tried the KM set in a store, which will hopefully change in a month or 2. Not sure how it sounds in a modern metal setup, since I just plugged it straight into an amp with no tube screamer in front of it, but from what I could gather in the clean tones, the KM set definitely has 3 completely separate voices (unlike the TA's voice 1, voice 1 with more of everything to make the eq more balanced as the second voice, and voice 3). Voice 1 on the KM set had a good amount of gain and breakup clean (not what you'd use it for, of course), Voice 2 had very usable humbucking clean tones (as one would expect from being a P.A.F. style voicing and all), and voice 3 was more strat-like in tone, but didn't blow me away as much as the TA Voice 3. Again, not as ideal of a playing situation as I'd have liked, but that's all I've got in terms of in-person experience at the moment.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

@LeviathanKiller 

Hey what was your experience with the km fishmans??


----------



## LeviathanKiller

TheUnknownOne said:


> Interesting... And did you try the Classics in that guitar ?



I have not tried the Classic bridge. The Keith Merrow set is a modified Classic bridge and an unaltered Classic neck. That set is in my Keith Merrow KM-7 MK-II which is pretty similar to the construction of the SLS Elites (enough to compare the pickups without thinking my guitar is changing the tone substantially).



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> @LeviathanKiller
> Hey what was your experience with the km fishmans??





JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hey would you mind breaking down what you like about the km set? If you could really go into detail about them go right ahead, there isnt too much info on them. Interested in trying them in my usa



I've said a lot in prior posts in this thread I believe. I even gave some EQ charts comparing them to the Nazgul/Sentient set. I'd check those as my feelings haven't changed much since then, if at all.

The KM set isn't as harsh in the high-end as the Modern or Tosin Abasi sets. I know there's -6dB connections on the two latter sets and I feel like those should be connected to since the output seems so high on those sets. I don't know if the KM set has that -6dB option, but it doesn't need it regardless. The voices are very balanced.

I don't like voice 1 on the neck of the KM set because it was too warm for me (remember this is the Classic neck actually). Voice 2 is the best neck sound of all the Fishman sets I've tried (just the 3 sets we're already talking about here). It's a slightly stratty type sound with some pop that I like neck pickups to have without being too thin.

The bridge is very clear and articulate. It's soooo clean feeling. I don't hear a bunch of unwanted frequencies when playing. Hard to explain.
They sound much more like a passive pickup than the other two sets do by far. Voice 2 of the bridge is slightly lower gain with a different feel. I don't use it that much but that's probably just because I like voice 1 so much.

Overall, the KM set voice 1 and voice 2 on both the neck and bridge seem more apparent than the difference the Tosin Abasi set and the Modern set had between their voice 1s and 2s. I haven't tried voice 3 on the Tosin Abasi set though and I probably won't modify the guitar to do so. Probably just end up pulling them out and replacing them with a passive set.



Gmork said:


> Tosin harsh in what way!? Hope i end up liking mine



If I'm right about the Tosin set being somewhat scooped in the mids (especially upper mids) then the treble is more accentuated as a result. The Modern set has the same treble thing going on that I just don't like that much but at least it's more bearable in the Modern set because the upper mids are there to balance it. The EMG 57/66 set I had for a bit had it way worse and those got pulled out immediately as a result.

If they could combine the Tosin Abasi and Modern sets together so that the upper mids from the Modern set were there together with lower mids and extra low end from the Tosin Abasi set and then lowered the output some by default, I'd be pretty happy. The KM set sounds near perfect to me though so maybe that is essentially what I'm asking for.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I should've recorded these in WAV but here are some clips

High gain
Fishman Tosin Abasi (bridge)
Fishman Modern (bridge)

Lower gain (removed the boost and lowered the gain)
Fishman Tosin Abasi (bridge)
Fishman Modern (bridge)


----------



## AirForbes1

Actually, I think that Abasi set sound quite good. I like it a little more than the moderns. It's just beefier (to my ears through my laptop speakers). Though, I liked the 57/66 set that you weren't keen on.

I was thinking of putting them in my Ibanez RG 652 (swamp ash body/maple neck), but if the PAF tones don't deliver as advertised, I'll probably go classics or just put a set of passives in (it's a new guitar and I'm giving the tone zone a chance, but it's a bit lacklustre).

Thanks a lot for the clips. You're very helpful.


----------



## Strobe

LeviathanKiller said:


> Okay, so far having the Modern set and the Tosin Abasi set both in Schecter C-7 SLS Elite guitars (one is hardtail, one is Floyd Rose), my thoughts are:
> 
> The Modern set in voice 1 is warmer than the Tosin Abasi set in voice 1 and even voice 2
> The Modern bridge feels a bit tighter than the Tosin Abasi set imo
> The Tosin Abasi set bridge seems kinda scooped actually in comparison to the Modern bridge
> The Tosin Abasi set appears to be higher output than the Modern set surprisingly
> The difference between voice 1 and 2 on the neck of the Tosin Abasi set is hardly noticeable imo when compared to that of the Modern set's voices
> 
> Exactly like what happened when I got the Modern set thinking I would like it better than the Keith Merrow set, I got the Tosin set thinking I would like it better than the Modern set...and I was wrong. The TA set seems harsher which is something I was wanting to get away from. I'm sure voice 3 really opens up things to being versatile but overall I feel like it's not as versatile as the other sets. Low gain with the TA set is so harsh compared to the Modern set.
> 
> For me so far:
> Keith Merrow > Modern > Tosin Abasi
> 
> I think this closes out my experimentation with Fishman Fluence pickups honestly. Seems like the Keith Merrow set is gonna be the one I like most and that's that



Weird. I thought the Tosins felt warmer and thicker in the low end than the moderns. The Tosin set felt like it had Tone Zone like thickness for solos to me. The Merrow set is one of the only ones I have not played (I own a set of most of them), although I probably would love them as the classics are my favorites, and those are in that vicinity I hear.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Strobe said:


> Weird. I thought the Tosins felt warmer and thicker in the low end than the moderns. The Tosin set felt like it had Tone Zone like thickness for solos to me. The Merrow set is one of the only ones I have not played (I own a set of most of them), although I probably would love them as the classics are my favorites, and those are in that vicinity I hear.



They do have more low end and are thicker, but they also have a lot of highs


----------



## AirForbes1

Strobe said:


> Weird. I thought the Tosins felt warmer and thicker in the low end than the moderns. The Tosin set felt like it had Tone Zone like thickness for solos to me. The Merrow set is one of the only ones I have not played (I own a set of most of them), although I probably would love them as the classics are my favorites, and those are in that vicinity I hear.



From looking at the wiring diagrams and the preferred layout of the Tosin set, plus the EQ graph posted in this video (They get to the EQ graphs at about 16 min):



I got the impression that the Abasi set was really geared towards Ibanez guitars (or taken a lot of inspiration from), specifically the basswood/ash style (like his sig was). The 5 way selector in positions 2 and 4 activating the single coil sounds. The extra low end, compared to the moderns, would suggest and EQ that's similar to the stock Tone Zone.

I'm a little disappointed that the PAF tones of the Abasi aren't all that. Beefier modern + classic PAF + single coil would have been exactly what I wanted (though I would have asked for open core).


----------



## juka

Oh man, reading this thread is like a rollercoaster tour, so much valuable info but you also have to read between the lines und put statements/evaluations into perspective.
I think I will wait until next NAMM show and see what news Fishman will have and then spent the money and try the TA set for myself.
Maybe it's a bit of a shrewd logic but if someone who couldn't stand the 57/66 at all, doesn't like the TA set either, they might be right up my alley and worth trying.
As said before I would really like to see Fishman's go on the 57/66 (and no they are nothing like the classics), but if the Tosins are Moderns with a little 57/66 flavor added I might like them, too.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

juka said:


> Oh man, reading this thread is like a rollercoaster tour, so much valuable info but you also have to read between the lines und put statements/evaluations into perspective.
> I think I will wait until next NAMM show and see what news Fishman will have and then spent the money and try the TA set for myself.
> Maybe it's a bit of a shrewd logic but if someone who couldn't stand the 57/66 at all, doesn't like the TA set either, they might be right up my alley and worth trying.
> As said before I would really like to see Fishman's go on the 57/66 (and no they are nothing like the classics), but if the Tosins are Moderns with a little 57/66 flavor added I might like them, too.



Tosin set definitely has less mids than 57/66 set though. What the they all have in common is what I consider a harsh high end. I find the KM set much more in line with all of the passive sets I own that are geared towards metal.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Anyone tried the Modern 7s?

Pretty much hated every 7 string version of every 6 string pickup I’ve liked, wondering if that’s gonna be the case here.

Got an idea for a one pup RGD...


----------



## juka

steinmetzify said:


> Anyone tried the Modern 7s?
> 
> Pretty much hated every 7 string version of every 6 string pickup I’ve liked, wondering if that’s gonna be the case here.
> 
> Got an idea for a one pup RGD...


Have Modern sets in 6 and 7 string, no difference at all.


----------



## elkoki

Where can I find a diagram for adding coil split to a guitar with a H/H,1v 1t, 3 way switch configuration?

currently it's wired in with 2 push pull pots for double voices. but I want to add coil splitting into it some how


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

elkoki said:


> Where can I find a diagram for adding coil split to a guitar with a H/H,1v 1t, 3 way switch configuration?
> 
> currently it's wired in with 2 push pull pots for double voices. but I want to add coil splitting into it some how


I don't think you'll find a diagram that does ALL of that, but you can probably look at different ones to do each of the thing you want to do it with. 

Depending on your pickup set, you can either set the voice switching to one pot (if you have it to switch voices on each individual pickup separately, which is what I think you're saying) so you can use the other for coil split, or add a 5 way switch (if you have a blade switch) to do splits in positions 2 and 4 (i.e. Tosin Abasi's set). Otherwise, you may need to look into adding a mini toggle or two, depending on how you want the splits/voices to work.


----------



## elkoki

Indigo Shinigami said:


> I don't think you'll find a diagram that does ALL of that, but you can probably look at different ones to do each of the thing you want to do it with.
> 
> Depending on your pickup set, you can either set the voice switching to one pot (if you have it to switch voices on each individual pickup separately, which is what I think you're saying) so you can use the other for coil split, or add a 5 way switch (if you have a blade switch) to do splits in positions 2 and 4 (i.e. Tosin Abasi's set). Otherwise, you may need to look into adding a mini toggle or two, depending on how you want the splits/voices to work.



I'm ok with having a voice switch on one pot, and single coil option for another pot. Would this diagram work with moderns?

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...ssic_Open_Core_1xVol_1xT_Toggle_Switch_9V.pdf


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

elkoki said:


> I'm ok with having a voice switch on one pot, and single coil option for another pot. Would this diagram work with moderns?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...ssic_Open_Core_1xVol_1xT_Toggle_Switch_9V.pdf


For the most part, yes. However, the moderns don't use the blue/yellow wires for coil split, so you need to use the solder pads on the back for it. Everything else would be the same, though.


----------



## op1e

I'm starting to get some ear fatigue with the highs in voice 1 of my Modern 7's. I'm wondering if I should go back and have the HF Tilt and low gain done on these in my RGD7421.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

Soooo much too read! 
So in short... what’s the set for me? 
Carpenter?
Abasi?
KsE?
Modern?

8 string, .010-.074, 28.625” scale, Drop F/F# standard tunings
Nice and crisp and bright
Not a lot of low/bass


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Acaciastrain360 said:


> Soooo much too read!
> So in short... what’s the set for me?
> Carpenter?
> Abasi?
> KsE?
> Modern?
> 
> 8 string, .010-.074, 28.625” scale, Drop F/F# standard tunings
> Nice and crisp and bright
> Not a lot of low/bass



KsE or Modern. KsE has more mids and less lows. Moderns are brighter I think.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> KsE or Modern. KsE has more mids and less lows. Moderns are brighter I think.


kse isn't available for 8 strings


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> kse isn't available for 8 strings


Whoops didn't read that.
Modern it is.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> KsE or Modern. KsE has more mids and less lows. Moderns are brighter I think.


Thanks man, going by what @KnightBrolaire said... Moderns it is!  are there any variations of the Modern, or is it just one style? As I’ve heard people talking of ceramic and alnico??


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Acaciastrain360 said:


> Thanks man, going by what @KnightBrolaire said... Moderns it is!  are there any variations of the Modern, or is it just one style? As I’ve heard people talking of ceramic and alnico??



If you get a set you get both. The Ceramic is supposed to be the bridge and the alnico is
Neck, but it doesn't matter. In your case though, ceramic bridge and alnico neck. The alnico has more lows and rolled off highs.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If you get a set you get both. The Ceramic is supposed to be the bridge and the alnico is
> Neck, but it doesn't matter. In your case though, ceramic bridge and alnico neck. The alnico has more lows and rolled off highs.


Okay sweet, I’ll start with a ceramic for the bridge then 
When it comes to fitting, I’ll be replacing my active blackouts, is it a case of soldering?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Acaciastrain360 said:


> Okay sweet, I’ll start with a ceramic for the bridge then
> When it comes to fitting, I’ll be replacing my active blackouts, is it a case of soldering?



Hell yes.  

You need a push pull pot or a mini toggle for the voicing switching. I mean you can just drop the Fluences in right away, but you don't have access to the 2nd voice.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Hell yes.
> 
> You need a push pull pot or a mini toggle for the voicing switching. I mean you can just drop the Fluences in right away, but you don't have access to the 2nd voice.


Ah okay dokey  little bit of shopping


----------



## CloudsUr

Probably a stupid question but i literally know nothing about wiring.
Is it possible to wire a classic set so that voice 2 is with the knob pushed in?
If i go with classics the hot rod voice would probably be the one i end up using the most, and i'd prefer to have it so i can't accidentally switch to PAF while operating the knobs


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

CloudsUr said:


> Probably a stupid question but i literally know nothing about wiring.
> Is it possible to wire a classic set so that voice 2 is with the knob pushed in?
> If i go with classics the hot rod voice would probably be the one i end up using the most, and i'd prefer to have it so i can't accidentally switch to PAF while operating the knobs


I ended up learning this by complete accident, but yes, you can have V2 when the knob is down by swapping where you solder the orange/green (or whatever color it is for Voice 2) wires on the push-pull. If you have it on the 2 "prongs" closest to the pot's shaft (of the 6 on the push-pull section), then move it to the furthest 2 prongs (which would be closest to the control cover). 

I don't remember which ones they're normally soldered to, but just soldering the wires to the prongs on the opposite side would produce the desired effect.


----------



## Velokki

Ok, how the hell do you choose between the different Fluences? So many signature sets around =D

What kind of process have you've gone through to determine which is best for you? Any helpful tools or write-ups?


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Will the Classics do Dream Theater/Petrucci style sounds?


----------



## Strobe

HairyNutsack69 said:


> Will the Classics do DT style sounds?



There is a Devin Townsend set. Those are the most DT sounding.  

That said, yes, I think so. They can get very aggressive sounding - the classics are the most versatile set to my ears - and I own 5 different sets of the fluence line.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Woops, meant to say Dream Theater/petrucci


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Is it possible to wire the HF tilt to the tone control potmeter (not the pushpull function) instead of the normal "tone control" circuit.
I never use my tone pot anyways so I figured playing with HF tilt a bit will give me more options.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

HairyNutsack69 said:


> Is it possible to wire the HF tilt to the tone control potmeter (not the pushpull function) instead of the normal "tone control" circuit.
> I never use my tone pot anyways so I figured playing with HF tilt a bit will give me more options.


Not exactly, since HF tilt is an on/off type of thing vs the normal tone pot ranges. 
Alternatively, you could turn the tone pot into another volume, or if anyone makes 2 way toggles that can replace pots, just get one of those and wire it there.


----------



## Velokki

I don't quite get the pricing for the Fishmans. The moderns are like 299€ everywhere. That's quite darn expensive, aight? And all the artist signature sets for the Fluence line are cheaper than normal moderns! It feels very counterintuitive.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Velokki said:


> I don't quite get the pricing for the Fishmans. The moderns are like 299€ everywhere. That's quite darn expensive, aight? And all the artist signature sets for the Fluence line are cheaper than normal moderns! It feels very counterintuitive.


that might just be a EU problem, over here the moderns and classics are cheaper than that, and the sig sets tend to cost more.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah, here in the US the standard Fishmans run between $230 - $250. The sig ones run $260+.


----------



## Velokki

Yeah, that'd be logical! That's why it was weird. And 299€ is 340 USD. Ain't that salty or what?


----------



## Gmork

Velokki said:


> Yeah, that'd be logical! That's why it was weird. And 299€ is 340 USD. Ain't that salty or what?


Thats nothing! $340 US is $454 CAN!!!!!!


----------



## Velokki

Gmork said:


> Thats nothing! $340 US is $454 CAN!!!!!!



I have no relativity at all regarding the Canadian dollar, so it's lost on me! 450 dollars of course sounds ridiculous 

Anyone with views regarding The Modern set vs KSE vs Keith Merrow?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Velokki said:


> I have no relativity at all regarding the Canadian dollar, so it's lost on me! 450 dollars of course sounds ridiculous
> 
> Anyone with views regarding The Modern set vs KSE vs Keith Merrow?



No clue about the KM, but I had the Classic which is based on it.

Modern = EMG-esque. Less low mids, slightly more treble. Don't go in expecting a true 81 sound, but kinda close. Voice 2 reminds me of the Duncan Black Winters and the Bill Lawrence L500XL had a baby.
KSE = Take the moderns, take away a LOT of the low end/low mids, add more mids, lower the gain. Voice 2 is lower gain, LOTS of added low end, scooped low end, relaxed high end. Snappy top end when played clean.
Classic = Voice 1 (KM Voice 1) is very bright, relaxed midrange, full low end. If you wanna jam on AC/DC all day or classic Van Halen, here's your ticket. Or have some very sparkly cleans. Neck and cleans are voiced very similarly. Voice 2 (KM Voice 2) rolls off some of the snappy high end, adds more mids, and tightens the low end. More output as well. Once again the neck feels about the same. The Keith Merrow bridge is supposed to be a bit more aggressive in the low end... whatever that means.


----------



## Velokki

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> No clue about the KM, but I had the Classic which is based on it.
> 
> Modern = EMG-esque. Less low mids, slightly more treble. Don't go in expecting a true 81 sound, but kinda close. Voice 2 reminds me of the Duncan Black Winters and the Bill Lawrence L500XL had a baby.
> KSE = Take the moderns, take away a LOT of the low end/low mids, add more mids, lower the gain. Voice 2 is lower gain, LOTS of added low end, scooped low end, relaxed high end. Snappy top end when played clean.
> Classic = Voice 1 (KM Voice 1) is very bright, relaxed midrange, full low end. If you wanna jam on AC/DC all day or classic Van Halen, here's your ticket. Or have some very sparkly cleans. Neck and cleans are voiced very similarly. Voice 2 (KM Voice 2) rolls off some of the snappy high end, adds more mids, and tightens the low end. More output as well. Once again the neck feels about the same. The Keith Merrow bridge is supposed to be a bit more aggressive in the low end... whatever that means.



Right - what would you say regarding clarity between the KSE and Modern? Like huge open chords, being able to hear every note?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Velokki said:


> Right - what would you say regarding clarity between the KSE and Modern? Like huge open chords, being able to hear every note?



Definitely do that. Slight edge to the KsE's due to the tighter low end and lower gain.


----------



## Gmork

So what options does one have with the tosin set other than just the original install? What i mean is that ive heard of an option for -6db, and something else that lowers the treble a bit. 
Are these simple mods and are there any other options?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Gmork said:


> So what options does one have with the tosin set other than just the original install? What i mean is that ive heard of an option for -6db, and something else that lowers the treble a bit.
> Are these simple mods and are there any other options?



Those are the Moderns only. The Tosin set only has the voicing and split.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

I was wondering if it's possible to wire a set of classics with a 5 way rotary switch instead of a tone pot in combination with a 5 way blade and a volume push pull to get this scenario:

Volume push-pull: HF tilt on/off

5 way rotary:
1. Voice 1

Bridge
Bridge + neck voice 3
Bridge + neck
Neck + Bridge voice 3
Neck
2. Voice 2

Bridge
Bridge + neck voice 3
Bridge + neck
Neck + Bridge voice 3
Neck
3. B voice 2 N voice 1

Bridge
Bridge + neck voice 3
Bridge + neck
Neck + Bridge voice 3
Neck
4. B voice 1 N voice 2

Bridge
Bridge + neck voice 3
Bridge + neck
Neck + Bridge voice 3
Neck
5. Voice 3

Bridge
Bridge + neck series
Bridge + neck
Bridge + neck out of phase
Neck


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

HairyNutsack69 said:


> I was wondering if it's possible to wire a set of classics with a 5 way rotary switch instead of a tone pot in combination with a 5 way blade and a volume push pull to get this scenario:
> 
> Volume push-pull: HF tilt on/off
> 
> 5 way rotary:
> 1. Voice 1
> 
> Bridge
> Bridge + neck voice 3
> Bridge + neck
> Neck + Bridge voice 3
> Neck
> 2. Voice 2
> 
> Bridge
> Bridge + neck voice 3
> Bridge + neck
> Neck + Bridge voice 3
> Neck
> 3. B voice 2 N voice 1
> 
> Bridge
> Bridge + neck voice 3
> Bridge + neck
> Neck + Bridge voice 3
> Neck
> 4. B voice 1 N voice 2
> 
> Bridge
> Bridge + neck voice 3
> Bridge + neck
> Neck + Bridge voice 3
> Neck
> 5. Voice 3
> 
> Bridge
> Bridge + neck series
> Bridge + neck
> Bridge + neck out of phase
> Neck


...Probably...? 

Since voice 3 does override voices 1 and 2, you can most likely get away with the first 4 positions you want. Position 5 is questionable since you can pick which coils are active in voice 3, but I haven't seen anyone wiring voice 3 in series, and the wiring will almost certainly be hilariously convoluted if not impossible (granted I have no idea how wiring that rotary switch works in general, so several grains of salt are advised).


----------



## mrdm53

Opinions on Fishman Fluence Open Core Classics for 8 strings?

I'm torn between this and Instrumental SFTY3. Currently i'm using Duncan Solar 8 for my custom 8 strings (which i loved btw), but for bridge pickup i need more aggression and tightness.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

mrdm53 said:


> Opinions on Fishman Fluence Open Core Classics for 8 strings?
> 
> I'm torn between this and Instrumental SFTY3. Currently i'm using Duncan Solar 8 for my custom 8 strings (which i loved btw), but for bridge pickup i need more aggression and tightness.



The Instrumental SFTY3 is not that tight imo
I own a 7-string set and don't like them because of that


----------



## FenderBluesAAA

This is a silly question but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. What type of battery should I use with these pickups? Lithium-ion or Alkaline?


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

FenderBluesAAA said:


> This is a silly question but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. What type of battery should I use with these pickups? Lithium-ion or Alkaline?


Whatever fits in your guitar, or whatever you used for other active pickups. Some people use the recharge pack, others use rechargeable 9V batteries, and I get by just fine with regular duracells. I haven't heard of the pickups causing battery issues, asides from maybe being more power hungry. The only issues I've heard of with batteries normally stemmed from the batteries being too large for the guitar.


----------



## soldierkahn

Has anyone started posting clips or reviews of the Fluences in Basswood bodies? I remember Zim saying that the Modern 7 in the Mahogany DCM100 was one of the best 7 tones hes ever heard. Just wondering if anyones tried them in Basswood 6s or 7s? Id love to try the Will Adler sig Fluence in my 970XL, but dont know how well that will work out when the pickup was designed for an all mahogany, short-scale LP style guitar. Now, I dont know how well that argument will stand considering im currently using duncan EMTY blackouts (best sounding pups ive tried in a basswood 6) and they were designed for a Maple neckthru with Mahogany wings so you never know.


----------



## Iceblade

Hey gang,

So my awesome wife got me the Tosin Abasi non-soapbar 7-string pickups to put in my THIN-bodied Ibanez S7320 and the Fishman recommended superswitch from Stew-Mac (I'm sure you see where this is going). Of course, when my guitar tech went to install everything, the damn switch won't fit. In fact, it appears that NO aftermarket switch will really fit due to the way that the black plastic cover goes over the blade portion of the switch that sticks through the top of the guitar body. That being said, if I want to have the stock 5-way switch wired up and have the tonal choices that Tosin has, do you know which wiring diagram I can follow? When I called Fishman, they said that I could use the Classic or Modern diagrams with the push pull pots to handle the coil tapping and such, but I didn't see anything that resembled a 5-way switch config that let me do that on their website pages. 

Do you think that the wiring diagram shown here:
https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Tosin_Abasi_Install_Guide_Fluence_WEB.pdf
Page 5, specifically, will work for the stock switch in this Ibanez? Or is there something else I can point my tech to in order to accomplish this:

Switch Positions: 
1. Bridge Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable) 
2. Bridge & Neck Inner Coils (Bridge Voice-3) 
3. Bridge & Neck Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable) 
4. Neck Outer Coil (Voice-3) 
5. Neck Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable)

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Regards,
Jeff


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Iceblade said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So my awesome wife got me the Tosin Abasi non-soapbar 7-string pickups to put in my THIN-bodied Ibanez S7320 and the Fishman recommended superswitch from Stew-Mac (I'm sure you see where this is going). Of course, when my guitar tech went to install everything, the damn switch won't fit. In fact, it appears that NO aftermarket switch will really fit due to the way that the black plastic cover goes over the blade portion of the switch that sticks through the top of the guitar body. That being said, if I want to have the stock 5-way switch wired up and have the tonal choices that Tosin has, do you know which wiring diagram I can follow? When I called Fishman, they said that I could use the Classic or Modern diagrams with the push pull pots to handle the coil tapping and such, but I didn't see anything that resembled a 5-way switch config that let me do that on their website pages.
> 
> Do you think that the wiring diagram shown here:
> https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Tosin_Abasi_Install_Guide_Fluence_WEB.pdf
> Page 5, specifically, will work for the stock switch in this Ibanez? Or is there something else I can point my tech to in order to accomplish this:
> 
> Switch Positions:
> 1. Bridge Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable)
> 2. Bridge & Neck Inner Coils (Bridge Voice-3)
> 3. Bridge & Neck Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable)
> 4. Neck Outer Coil (Voice-3)
> 5. Neck Humbucker (Voice-1 or 2 selectable)
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide!
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff


Like with most cases I've seen on here recently, there's no one diagram that'll tell you everything for your particular setup. You'd need to look at the TA set 5-way wiring for the pickups/wires themselves, the Ibanez HH 5-way wiring for the switch, and a dimarzio pickup diagram to see which wires did what. Then you match up the wires on the Fishmans to the Dimarzios and go from there. 

Thankfully Tosin's 5-way wiring is based off the Ibanez's wiring, for obvious reasons.


----------



## Curt

I have a schecter c7 sls elite on the way and I really don't like the fishman modern neck pickup, but they don't make the fishman classic in a soapbar format, and i'm big sad about it. anyone tried a modern ceramic/abasi neck combo? looking like my only real option.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Curt said:


> I have a schecter c7 sls elite on the way and I really don't like the fishman modern neck pickup, but they don't make the fishman classic in a soapbar format, and i'm big sad about it. anyone tried a modern ceramic/abasi neck combo? looking like my only real option.


You could try reversing the neck and bridge pickup so that the ceramic is in the neck and the alnico in the bridge.


----------



## juka

Indigo Shinigami said:


> Like with most cases I've seen on here recently, there's no one diagram that'll tell you everything for your particular setup. You'd need to look at the TA set 5-way wiring for the pickups/wires themselves, the Ibanez HH 5-way wiring for the switch, and a dimarzio pickup diagram to see which wires did what. Then you match up the wires on the Fishmans to the Dimarzios and go from there.
> 
> Thankfully Tosin's 5-way wiring is based off the Ibanez's wiring, for obvious reasons.



That or check for smaller alternatives to the Superswitch like a Schaller Megaswitch, which has a much smaller footprint and a version with even more ways to wire/switch PUs


----------



## Iceblade

juka said:


> That or check for smaller alternatives to the Superswitch like a Schaller Megaswitch, which has a much smaller footprint and a version with even more ways to wire/switch PUs



Thanks, but I can't tell if this switch really solves the issue without actually buying it and having my tech dry fit it. I've already wasted money on one switch. I'm waiting to hear back from my tech to see if they had any better luck talking to Fishman than I did, because what they said to me on the phone didn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

Jeff


----------



## Iceblade

Indigo Shinigami said:


> Like with most cases I've seen on here recently, there's no one diagram that'll tell you everything for your particular setup. You'd need to look at the TA set 5-way wiring for the pickups/wires themselves, the Ibanez HH 5-way wiring for the switch, and a dimarzio pickup diagram to see which wires did what. Then you match up the wires on the Fishmans to the Dimarzios and go from there.
> 
> Thankfully Tosin's 5-way wiring is based off the Ibanez's wiring, for obvious reasons.



Indigo,

Unfortunately, the switch used in his Ibanez's, the OTAX VLX91, is a super switch and does not fit in the very thin Ibanez S7320 body. And it SEEMS like you can't get the appropriate coils to engage for each pickup using the stock 5-way switch, though I may be wrong. Hoping my tech has luck talking to Fishman, directly.

Jeff


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Iceblade said:


> Indigo,
> 
> Unfortunately, the switch used in his Ibanez's, the OTAX VLX91, is a super switch and does not fit in the very thin Ibanez S7320 body. And it SEEMS like you can't get the appropriate coils to engage for each pickup using the stock 5-way switch, though I may be wrong. Hoping my tech has luck talking to Fishman, directly.
> 
> Jeff


I used to have an Ibanez S Prestige with a 5 way switch. I had a tech put bkp juggernauts in it and he was able to wire up the individual coils to positions 2 and 4. I don't remember what they actually did, but I'm sure it's possible, you just need to look at a diagram for your stock switch so you know where to wire everything.


----------



## Iceblade

Indigo Shinigami said:


> I used to have an Ibanez S Prestige with a 5 way switch. I had a tech put bkp juggernauts in it and he was able to wire up the individual coils to positions 2 and 4. I don't remember what they actually did, but I'm sure it's possible, you just need to look at a diagram for your stock switch so you know where to wire everything.



I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Prestige models had the more complex Otax VLX91 super switch, as well. I know the RG3120 did, for sure.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Iceblade said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Prestige models had the more complex Otax VLX91 super switch, as well. I know the RG3120 did, for sure.


I don't remember which one my model had, but I'm almost certain it had 8 prongs on the bottom, so if yours has that many, you should be able to use your stock switch just fine.


----------



## SlamLiguez

Not sure if i should have made my own thread but I'll ask here; how would the Moderns compare to any of the blackouts? Loomis or Thomson? I'm deciding which set to pop in my Falchion.
Thanks in advance


----------



## LeviathanKiller

SlamLiguez said:


> Not sure if i should have made my own thread but I'll ask here; how would the Moderns compare to any of the blackouts? Loomis or Thomson? I'm deciding which set to pop in my Falchion.
> Thanks in advance



I actually like the bridge Blackout I currently have better than my Modern bridge. It's a toss up between the necks.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SlamLiguez said:


> Not sure if i should have made my own thread but I'll ask here; how would the Moderns compare to any of the blackouts? Loomis or Thomson? I'm deciding which set to pop in my Falchion.
> Thanks in advance



Blackouts: Fluences have less output and more mids. Blackouts are more scooped, brighter highs, and flubbier lows. Voice 2 and the BOs shared some similarities.
Mick Thomsons: Thought the Micks were very flat all around. The Fluences sounded much better to me. Tighter, brighter, clearer.


----------



## SlamLiguez

LeviathanKiller said:


> I actually like the bridge Blackout I currently have better than my Modern bridge. It's a toss up between the necks.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Blackouts: Fluences have less output and more mids. Blackouts are more scooped, brighter highs, and flubbier lows. Voice 2 and the BOs shared some similarities.
> Mick Thomsons: Thought the Micks were very flat all around. The Fluences sounded much better to me. Tighter, brighter, clearer.



Thanks for the input guys


----------



## Curt

HairyNutsack69 said:


> You could try reversing the neck and bridge pickup so that the ceramic is in the neck and the alnico in the bridge.


I could, but I worry about the roundness of the Alnico model. I really adore the tightness of the ceramic model in the bridge. I could always try to snag another ceramic model and just go double ceramic, but at the end of the day, I still don't know that it will give me what I want. But we have another option, im pretty limited.


----------



## juka

Curt said:


> I could, but I worry about the roundness of the Alnico model. I really adore the tightness of the ceramic model in the bridge. I could always try to snag another ceramic model and just go double ceramic, but at the end of the day, I still don't know that it will give me what I want. But we have another option, im pretty limited.



Why not simply try it out next time you change strings?

Swapping bridge and neck PU is really easy with Fishman and you will have the answer to all your questions within minutes.


----------



## Curt

I


juka said:


> Why not simply try it out next time you change strings?
> 
> Swapping bridge and neck PU is really easy with Fishman and you will have the answer to all your questions within minutes.


 The guitar hasn't arrived yet. I had the moderns in one of my 6 strings until I swapped them with the Devy set, so I know that I definitely don't like the alnico modern in the neck that much. 

I will probably give it a go when the guitar arrives


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Can confirm that that blackout bridge sounds a bit similar in terms of eq to the modern ceramic voice 2. The fluence is just drier sounding and a bit tighter down low despite the bigger bass boost. 

The blackout however has that emg-ish sag while having a looser bottom.


----------



## elkoki

Out of curiosity, anyone use the Fluence Modern alnico in the bridge? If you do,how does it sound like ? and what do you use in the neck?


----------



## juka

elkoki said:


> Out of curiosity, anyone use the Fluence Modern alnico in the bridge? If you do,how does it sound like ? and what do you use in the neck?



Still have it on my ToDo list, but I actually like the ceramic at the bridge, which is pretty astonishing as this might be the first ceramic bridge PU I actually like.

As far as I remember there is at least one member here who uses the Alnico as bridge PU and Fluff for example uses it that way after recommendation by Ken Susi


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Pretty sure Andy Sneap does that, too.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

I think the alnico in the bridge will give a bit more bottom end, don't think it loses that much "thighness".


----------



## Iceblade

Iceblade said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the Prestige models had the more complex Otax VLX91 super switch, as well. I know the RG3120 did, for sure.



Just FYI should anyone care, the Tosin Abasi's will absolutely not fit within an Ibanez S7320 body unless you don't use the push-pull pots and only wire it with the stock switch... which sort of defeats the purpose of getting them. I am now having them put into my RG7621 and moving the Blackouts currently in that over to the 7320. Hope that may help someone prior to going through the pain and expense, themselves.

Jeff


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I'm curious to see if I really did a dumbass move awhile back and installed the Fluence Moderns backwards in the 7-string awhile back.  Ordered a Fluence Modern 7 set for my SC-607B.


----------



## Chad

A couple random thoughts/questions:

1. I have a set of Moderns in my ESP Eclipse and really like them. I have 3 knobs available and am using one regular pot and two push-pulls. I've tried all of the options with the push-pull switches: Voice selection, HF Tilt, gain reduction, and split coil. 

I think I've settled on Voice selection and split coil as my two options. Only mod I might make is to set it up to where the bridge pickup splits to the inner coil while the neck pickup splits to the neck side coil. That's how I typically like my split coils. I've never heard of anybody doing this with the Fluence pickups, but it looks doable from the wiring diagrams.

One interesting note: I technically have 4 voices because you can select split coil mode in both Voice 1 and Voice 2 and it seems they are a bit different.


2. I'm thinking about getting a Classic set for another guitar. Does anybody know the most current revision version? It's odd how the original versions had split coil as a separate thing, then they converted it to being an official 3rd voicing. I wonder if the old versions allowed 4 voices like my Moderns do?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

They probably could, since you have to solder onto the pickup itself for the coil split, like the moderns. 

Also found that a mini toggle conveniently fits into my Stef's tone control hole. So I can test the different options without rewiring the entire guitar. Just chunk the pickups in there and solder the voicing wires to the mini toggle.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Just ordered an Aristides 060RL (the first one) with fluence open cores. Excited to try them out when its done


----------



## CloudsUr

HairyNutsack69 said:


> Just ordered an Aristides 060RL (the first one) with fluence open cores. Excited to try them out when its done


Ordered a 070R myself last week and i'm excited as hell.
I ended up choosing the moderns in the end, after subjecting myself and my bandmates to various blind test.
Both the classic and the moderns sounded really good to our ears so the (admittedly silly) main reason i went with the moderns was because i wanted covered PUs for aesthetic reasons and the classic 7 are only available as open cores


----------



## HairyNutsack69

CloudsUr said:


> Ordered a 070R myself last week and i'm excited as hell.
> I ended up choosing the moderns in the end, after subjecting myself and my bandmates to various blind test.
> Both the classic and the moderns sounded really good to our ears so the (admittedly silly) main reason i went with the moderns was because i wanted covered PUs for aesthetic reasons and the classic 7 are only available as open cores


I went with all black hardware so for me the open cores went really well with the theme. What colour did you decide on? I went with the royal red.


----------



## CloudsUr

Anthracite grey with black hardware and black nickel PUs.
My second choise (and hopefully next build) was actually Royal red with gold hardware


----------



## HairyNutsack69

CloudsUr said:


> Anthracite grey with black hardware and black nickel PUs.
> My second choise (and hopefully next build) was actually Royal red with gold hardware


I thought about the anthracite too but upon seeing the red in person I decided to go with that one.
I have really sweaty hands so i can only use black hardware or it'll look like shit after a year. Black nickel was my second choice but nickel again wears insanely fast for me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I just got the Moderns... I don't like them. 

Compared to the EMG 81-7, the Modern Ceramic sounds weaker and thinner with a twangy sound I don't really like. Kinda like a single coil sound to it. The Modern Alnico sounded a bit better, but wasn't as tight as the 81. Keeping the 81 in as is.

EDIT: Anyone else found the Modern Ceramic lacking in output compared to the EMG 81? I wanna make sure I don't have a defective pickup.

EDIT2: Fuck it, I'm messaging for a refund anyway.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah, just got in contact with the seller and they're going back. This pickup sounded nothing like the Modern in my Aria V OR in the PRS SE SVN I had months ago.

This actually makes me wanna try the Stef set, since they're supposed to be like the Moderns with more chunk.


----------



## lyonk55

Recently picked up a set of Abasi 7 strings: this guitar has been a pain getting pickups for, but these finally seem to have done the trick. I'll need to give them a bit longer to be sure, but loving them so far. Just might have saved it from being sold. Now to clear out some of the failed passive sets and maybe fund some 6 string Fishmans.

BUT, I feel I should point out if anyone's not already aware: the passive-sized 7 string pickups are about 1 mm longer than covered passives (in this case Bareknuckle Juggernauts). If your routing is snug, you might need to widen them. I ended up taking sandpaper to the guitar to install them. Ended up going fine and being barely noticeable, but it was nerve wracking.


----------



## Chad

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> EDIT: Anyone else found the Modern Ceramic lacking in output compared to the EMG 81? I wanna make sure I don't have a defective pickup.



Not at all. I have several guitars with an 81 in the bridge. I actually messaged Fishman to inquire if they knew how much higher output the Modern ceramic was compared to an 81 because it seemed like a lot. Enough that I ran with the low gain -6db setting for awhile. I have since gone back to the normal gain setting. 

TLDR; my experience was as far opposite as possible from yours. To the point that I wonder if something is defective with your pickup.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chad said:


> Not at all. I have several guitars with an 81 in the bridge. I actually messaged Fishman to inquire if they knew how much higher output the Modern ceramic was compared to an 81 because it seemed like a lot. Enough that I ran with the low gain -6db setting for awhile. I have since gone back to the normal gain setting.
> 
> TLDR; my experience was as far opposite as possible from yours. To the point that I wonder if something is defective with your pickup.



Righh, then I made the right call. It's going back.


----------



## Xaeldaren

I'm considering getting the open core classics for my Ibanez 652AHMFX, but I'm worried they may not be aggressive or modern enogh sounding for modern metal. I'm going for the classics due to aesthetics and tri-tabs, but I'd like to know that they can do what I'm looking for in a pickup! Currently I find the Tone Zone in the bridge a little unsatisfactory and muddy, and I want something tight and clear.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Xaeldaren said:


> I'm considering getting the open core classics for my Ibanez 652AHMFX, but I'm worried they may not be aggressive or modern enogh sounding for modern metal. I'm going for the classics due to aesthetics and tri-tabs, but I'd like to know that they can do what I'm looking for in a pickup! Currently I find the Tone Zone in the bridge a little unsatisfactory and muddy, and I want something tight and clear.


You could consider the merrows, they are similar to the classics.

This track was recorded with the regular classics:


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Tosin Abasi 7 set is going back now
Definitely preferred the Modern set a a bit over them and still prefer the Keith Merrow set over both by farrrrrrr


----------



## StevenC

Tosin and Javier are both playing at the Fishman booth for Fluence at NAMM. Hopefully this means we'll get open coil or regular humbucker sized 8 sets for Javier, or better yet 8 string single coils!


----------



## narad

HairyNutsack69 said:


> You could consider the merrows, they are similar to the classics.
> 
> This track was recorded with the regular classics:




Fuck yea, Carillion  Is that you? Track and tone was awesome.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

narad said:


> Fuck yea, Carillion  Is that you? Track and tone was awesome.


No I wish!
He's probably the best metal oriented dutch guitarist out there so I follow his work quite a bit. Really neoclassical in his solo stuff and plays for the death metal (?) band Aborted that I dont really care for. But he used the classics with that project aswell, switched to merrows now.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HairyNutsack69 said:


> No I wish!
> He's probably the best metal oriented dutch guitarist out there so I follow his work quite a bit. Really neoclassical in his solo stuff and plays for the death metal (?) band Aborted that I dont really care for. But he used the classics with that project aswell, switched to merrows now.



He's part of (or at least a collaborator with) Double Impact Productions who sells stuff like Kemper profiles. His Kemper profile packs are great imo


----------



## lyonk55

So after a bit longer with the Abasi 7s, I'm considering some more Fishman...s(?) for some of my 6 strings. Thinking about the KSE, Merrow, Modern or Classic sets for a darker, warmer Ibanez SZ that could use some more oomf and tightness. Anyone have recommendations? Or at least an output comparison between those sets?


----------



## lewis

anyone got a wiring diagram for a Fishman Modern set with 1 volume push/pull pot doing the voicings and a 3 way pickup selector switch going to a normal 9volt battery clip?

The website seems a joke tbh


----------



## LeviathanKiller

lyonk55 said:


> So after a bit longer with the Abasi 7s, I'm considering some more Fishman...s(?) for some of my 6 strings. Thinking about the KSE, Merrow, Modern or Classic sets for a darker, warmer Ibanez SZ that could use some more oomf and tightness. Anyone have recommendations? Or at least an output comparison between those sets?



The Keith Merrow set is darker than the Modern and Abasi sets I have/had in swamp ash guitars jsyk
The latter two were too bright for me actually so it's not that the KM set is dark, but fairly balanced imo


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Anything new from NAMM?


----------



## Chad

lewis said:


> anyone got a wiring diagram for a Fishman Modern set with 1 volume push/pull pot doing the voicings and a 3 way pickup selector switch going to a normal 9volt battery clip?
> 
> The website seems a joke tbh



I've seen peeps get frustrated with their instructions/site, but these pickups really aren't any different to install than other pickups. They have more options, sure, but the concepts are still the same. The battery gets wired up like any other active set. Wire the volume part of the push-pull pot like any single volume guitar. Wire the switch part of the push-pull like the Fishman site shows.


----------



## lewis

Chad said:


> I've seen peeps get frustrated with their instructions/site, but these pickups really aren't any different to install than other pickups. They have more options, sure, but the concepts are still the same. The battery gets wired up like any other active set. Wire the volume part of the push-pull pot like any single volume guitar. Wire the switch part of the push-pull like the Fishman site shows.


would be fine usually, except other than quick connect EMGs, this will be my very first Pickup/soldering install


----------



## Xaeldaren

HairyNutsack69 said:


> You could consider the merrows, they are similar to the classics.
> 
> This track was recorded with the regular classics:



Thanks for this! That video was so cool, and he's a monster player. I'm thinking of the classics because of the zebra look, which is mandatory for the guitar they're going in, which might be silly, I know. After doing some reading, it seems like they have all the clarity and tightness I'm looking for. 

Do you think they may be too bright in an ash Ibanez? I'm considering wiring the HF tilt to a push-pull pot if necessary.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Xaeldaren said:


> Thanks for this! That video was so cool, and he's a monster player. I'm thinking of the classics because of the zebra look, which is mandatory for the guitar they're going in, which might be silly, I know. After doing some reading, it seems like they have all the clarity and tightness I'm looking for.
> 
> Do you think they may be too bright in an ash Ibanez? I'm considering wiring the HF tilt to a push-pull pot if necessary.


You could also hardwire the HF tilt so it's always on so you dont need to waste a push pull, if you have 2 pots then you're going to need the both of them to use all 3 voices.
I've only played the classics in either mahogany bodies or in aristides' so I dont know how if they would be too bright in an ash guitar, might be. Is it bolt on or neck through?


----------



## Xaeldaren

HairyNutsack69 said:


> You could also hardwire the HF tilt so it's always on so you dont need to waste a push pull, if you have 2 pots then you're going to need the both of them to use all 3 voices.
> I've only played the classics in either mahogany bodies or in aristides' so I dont know how if they would be too bright in an ash guitar, might be. Is it bolt on or neck through?



It's a bolt on with ash body/top, maple and walnut neck with a maple fretboard. I was thinking of going for the Abasi wiring with the single coil voice on the 2 and 4 positions, since that's what I'm used to with the Ibanez switching, then use the tone knob to change voices and the volume knob to engage/disengage HF tilt, just for added versatility.


----------



## HairyNutsack69

Xaeldaren said:


> It's a bolt on with ash body/top, maple and walnut neck with a maple fretboard. I was thinking of going for the Abasi wiring with the single coil voice on the 2 and 4 positions, since that's what I'm used to with the Ibanez switching, then use the tone knob to change voices and the volume knob to engage/disengage HF tilt, just for added versatility.


I think without a maple cap you'll be fine. Maybe you'll need to use the HF tilt though.


----------



## Xaeldaren

HairyNutsack69 said:


> I think without a maple cap you'll be fine. Maybe you'll need to use the HF tilt though.


Thank you! You've been really helpful.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

....2nd day of NAMM and nothing from Fishman . Nothing yet re the bass pickups (other than from Schecter) or any new guitar models for that matter. I'd love to hear any rumors at this point .


----------



## Miek

I keep hearing that people feel like putting fishmans on their guitar was like taking a blanket off their amp or whatever, is there anyone here that felt that way but still preferred their traditional passives?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Miek said:


> I keep hearing that people feel like putting fishmans on their guitar was like taking a blanket off their amp or whatever, is there anyone here that felt that way but still preferred their traditional passives?


they're the best active option out there clarity wise and versatility wise, but they don't sound groundbreaking if you're used to good passives already. I definitely still prefer passives but the modern's v2 is pretty awesome, it's thicker on the low end and for some reason it just works better for my tastes.


----------



## Albake21

Yeah my experience is like KnightBrolaire's. They are fantastic for clarity, but they felt very dull to me. I tried them in multiple guitars and it was the same every time.


----------



## Strobe

Albake21 said:


> Yeah my experience is like KnightBrolaire's. They are fantastic for clarity, but they felt very dull to me. I tried them in multiple guitars and it was the same every time.



I would not say they were dull personally, but they do have less variety than passives. There are a lot of great passives out there. You can more likely find your ideal sound in passives. Agreed that the clarity is next level.

They just have a lot of advantages. Good cleans despite being able to bring the brutal. Pretty versatile in terms of sounding good for both rhythm and lead. They almost never sound harsh. That said I have heard passive sounds that are better in a particular application. I am a fan boy though at this point... I own about 6 sets of Fluence pickups.


----------



## Albake21

Strobe said:


> I would not say they were dull personally, but they do have less variety than passives. There are a lot of great passives out there. You can more likely find your ideal sound in passives. Agreed that the clarity is next level.
> 
> They just have a lot of advantages. Good cleans despite being able to bring the brutal. Pretty versatile in terms of sounding good for both rhythm and lead. They almost never sound harsh. That said I have heard passive sounds that are better in a particular application. I am a fan boy though at this point... I own about 6 sets of Fluence pickups.


I ran into a problem with the tone. The moderns were too bright without chunk, almost ice picky. I then put the alnico in the bridge hoping it would help, but in reality it just gave more lower mids was all. They just didn't feel aggressive at all. For comparison, I much prefer the blackouts in my RG3250MZ over the Fishmans because while the clarity is not the same, they have a much better feel and lower end to them.


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ....2nd day of NAMM and nothing from Fishman . Nothing yet re the bass pickups (other than from Schecter) or any new guitar models for that matter. I'd love to hear any rumors at this point .



Green bobbins on Open Coils in Satchel's new signature Charvel (but he sort of spilled the beans several weeks before).

Maybe they announce their news at the weekend, otherwise they will loose a lot of momentum


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ....2nd day of NAMM and nothing from Fishman . Nothing yet re the bass pickups (other than from Schecter) or any new guitar models for that matter. I'd love to hear any rumors at this point .



The bass pickups are on the website. 3 voicings plus a coil split.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

The Fluence pickups are the best active or powered pickups around, I like their tone and the improvements such as the improved clarity, the instant response and the noise free operation, I don't however like that they're still compressed or boxed-in sounding compared to passives.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The bass pickups are on the website. 3 voicings plus a coil split.



Thanks! Also, In the live show Tosin & Javier gave yesterday at the Fishman booth, Tosin said that they both now use Fishman Fluence pickups, but nothing more, Javier didn't even speak at all .

EDIT: here


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Javier's probably just using either the Classics or the Merrows. Wouldn't be surprised if he eventually gets a set as well.


----------



## Albake21

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Javier's probably just using either the Classics or the Merrows. Wouldn't be surprised if he eventually gets a set as well.


Didn't Tosin say at the start they were both using signature sets?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Albake21 said:


> Didn't Tosin say at the start they were both using signature sets?



Didn't watch it.  Just peeked at what Javier was using and saw they were open-coil.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Albake21 said:


> Didn't Tosin say at the start they were both using signature sets?


In the interview with Ken Susi and Javier, Ken hinted that there would be something new from Javier, so he's most likely getting a sig set too.


----------



## juka

Indigo Shinigami said:


> In the interview with Ken Susi and Javier, Ken hinted that there would be something new from Javier, so he's most likely getting a sig set too.




That's what I understood too from the interview, but it didn't sound as this might happen quite soon, because the description of what his signature set should sound was still extremely vague. Maybe something in the Classic/Merrow range



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Didn't watch it.  Just peeked at what Javier was using and saw they were open-coil.



There were several close-ups of his guitar throughout the performance and his pups were def NOT Fishmans yet (as long as they do not use plain, generic/non-Fluence bobbins for their early prototypes).


----------



## StevenC

Come on 8 string single coils Javier!


----------



## lewis

so with the Fishman modern set (6 string set), can i just use 1 of the push/pull knobs as a master volume too and thats it?

I just want 1 knob and a 3 way switch. But want both voicings.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> so with the Fishman modern set (6 string set), can i just use 1 of the push/pull knobs as a master volume too and thats it?
> 
> I just want 1 knob and a 3 way switch. But want both voicings.



Yup. Just run a single volume like you normally would. Output of the 3 way switch to the input of the volume.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. Just run a single volume like you normally would. Output of the 3 way switch to the input of the volume.


thank you

Im going to photoshop their wiring diagram to this /\ so I can better follow it. Cheers dude


----------



## Sofasoldier

So I’m looking for some help here guys. Thinking of ordering another Aristides Thing is ... don’t know which of these pickups would best suit what I’m looking for KM Fishman set or BareKnuckle Ragnarok? Looking for a thick meaty low end for heavy playing in drop C but also want great cleans. Let me know your thoughts currently using Fishman moderns and also have the single coil set. I don’t have much experience with passive pick ups which is the reason for my question.


----------



## Albake21

Sofasoldier said:


> So I’m looking for some help here guys. Thinking of ordering another Aristides Thing is ... don’t know which of these pickups would best suit what I’m looking for KM Fishman set or BareKnuckle Ragnarok? Looking for a thick meaty low end for heavy playing in drop C but also want great cleans. Let me know your thoughts currently using Fishman moderns and also have the single coil set. I don’t have much experience with passive pick ups which is the reason for my question.


I never found any Fishmans to have any "thick meaty low end" but I'm sure others can chime in with better experience.


----------



## Sofasoldier

I actually find the second voice thing on the model and to be quite thick but with this new guitar I’m wanting something with a different flavour. The guitar with muffins I have tuned to drop a


Albake21 said:


> I never found any Fishmans to have any "thick meaty low end" but I'm sure others can chime in with better experience.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sofasoldier said:


> I actually find the second voice thing on the model and to be quite thick but with this new guitar I’m wanting something with a different flavour. The guitar with muffins I have tuned to drop a



Yeah, for most of the pickups, the 2nd voicing tends to be more thick. But the Fluences don't tend to aim for thickness, mostly for clarity. 

Although by all reports, the Stef sig seems to have quite a bit of low end. And I find V2 of the Classics to be super beefy.


----------



## Lozek

Can anyone tell me what size mounting screws six string moderns need? Standard passive mount or the larger size used by EMG?


----------



## Strobe

Sofasoldier said:


> So I’m looking for some help here guys. Thinking of ordering another Aristides Thing is ... don’t know which of these pickups would best suit what I’m looking for KM Fishman set or BareKnuckle Ragnarok? Looking for a thick meaty low end for heavy playing in drop C but also want great cleans. Let me know your thoughts currently using Fishman moderns and also have the single coil set. I don’t have much experience with passive pick ups which is the reason for my question.



There are thicker sounding passive options; for example BKP Warpigs. That said, the Tosin set is actually a thicker sounding (and slightly looser) modern. The bridge reminds me of the Tone Zone a bit in that it can produce really warm, thick leads. The cleans go from good in voice 1/2 (humbucker) to freakin' amazing in the voice 3 single coil mode (which is super stratty sounding). If you want to go the active route and think the Fishmans may be your thing, check out the Tosin set. They are my favorites in the modern family having not yet tried the Adler set.


----------



## Sofasoldier

Strobe said:


> There are thicker sounding passive options; for example BKP Warpigs. That said, the Tosin set is actually a thicker sounding (and slightly looser) modern. The bridge reminds me of the Tone Zone a bit in that it can produce really warm, thick leads. The cleans go from good in voice 1/2 (humbucker) to freakin' amazing in the voice 3 single coil mode (which is super stratty sounding). If you want to go the active route and think the Fishmans may be your thing, check out the Tosin set. They are my favorites in the modern family having not yet tried the Adler set.





Strobe said:


> There are thicker sounding passive options; for example BKP Warpigs. That said, the Tosin set is actually a thicker sounding (and slightly looser) modern. The bridge reminds me of the Tone Zone a bit in that it can produce really warm, thick leads. The cleans go from good in voice 1/2 (humbucker) to freakin' amazing in the voice 3 single coil mode (which is super stratty sounding). If you want to go the active route and think the Fishmans may be your thing, check out the Tosin set. They are my favorites in the modern family having not yet tried the Adler set.





Strobe said:


> There are thicker sounding passive options; for example BKP Warpigs. That said, the Tosin set is actually a thicker sounding (and slightly looser) modern. The bridge reminds me of the Tone Zone a bit in that it can produce really warm, thick leads. The cleans go from good in voice 1/2 (humbucker) to freakin' amazing in the voice 3 single coil mode (which is super stratty sounding). If you want to go the active route and think the Fishmans may be your thing, check out the Tosin set. They are my favorites in the modern family having not yet tried the Adler set.


 could you describe the differences between the war pigs and the Ragnaroks please? I’m really into the Fishman side of stuff but was thinking passives maybe a different flavour. So you’re saying the KM set are not very thick when compared to the TA set? To be honest I don’t think I’d grab a set that is too similar to my moderns. If I was to do that I just simply replace them with the TA set although I’m not sure how my rechargeable battery will handle it since I already have it hooked up to 8 Piezo as well.


----------



## Strobe

Sofasoldier said:


> could you describe the differences between the war pigs and the Ragnaroks please? I’m really into the Fishman side of stuff but was thinking passives maybe a different flavour. So you’re saying the KM set are not very thick when compared to the TA set? To be honest I don’t think I’d grab a set that is too similar to my moderns. If I was to do that I just simply replace them with the TA set although I’m not sure how my rechargeable battery will handle it since I already have it hooked up to 8 Piezo as well.



I have actually never played the Ragnaroks. I have only heard clips. Same with the KM set (although I own the classics, which are close). The Tosins are a variation on the moderns. I also do not know how much current your piezo draws. I wish I had tried all of these options so I could compare them; I have mostly been chiming in here because I own most of the different sets of Fishmans (and I have liked them all and loved some of them).

What I am saying is that the Tosins are the thickest sounding of the sets based on moderns that I have played. They reminded me a little of the feel of a tone zone when playing lead.


----------



## Sofasoldier

Strobe said:


> I have actually never played the Ragnaroks. I have only heard clips. Same with the KM set (although I own the classics, which are close). The Tosins are a variation on the moderns. I also do not know how much current your piezo draws. I wish I had tried all of these options so I could compare them; I have mostly been chiming in here because I own most of the different sets of Fishmans (and I have liked them all and loved some of them).
> 
> What I am saying is that the Tosins are the thickest sounding of the sets based on moderns that I have played. They reminded me a little of the feel of a tone zone when playing lead.



Could you give me your opinion on the differences between the sounds of both voicings on the moderns and the TA set? Also a description of the cleans on the third voicing would be great. I may replace my moderns with them in my 060 For the added versatility with cleans.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Sofasoldier said:


> could you describe the differences between the war pigs and the Ragnaroks please? I’m really into the Fishman side of stuff but was thinking passives maybe a different flavour. So you’re saying the KM set are not very thick when compared to the TA set? To be honest I don’t think I’d grab a set that is too similar to my moderns. If I was to do that I just simply replace them with the TA set although I’m not sure how my rechargeable battery will handle it since I already have it hooked up to 8 Piezo as well.


warpigs are very bass and treble heavy and more compressed. They're kind of weird because they're very aggressive and great for metal, but they also clean up decently. I wouldn't put them in a warmer guitar because they can flub out on the low end (which is fine if you want a doomy/sludgy sound, but not if you're chasing tighter tones). They do best in brighter sounding guitars ime. 
ragnaroks are lower output comparatively, with less bass or treble so they have a warmer sound. There's more leeway with putting them in brighter or darker guitars since they don't have as big of a low end. They also can get aggressive but you really need to pick hard and use a ton of gain to get them to saturate ime. The warpigs are much more forgiving if you don't have a super heavy right hand. The ragnaroks also have a hint of the juggernaut midrange (ie that kind of vocal quality but it's nowhere near as front and center as it was with the juggs). They also have better cleans than the warpigs.


----------



## Sofasoldier

KnightBrolaire said:


> warpigs are very bass and treble heavy and more compressed. They're kind of weird because they're very aggressive and great for metal, but they also clean up decently. I wouldn't put them in a warmer guitar because they can flub out on the low end (which is fine if you want a doomy/sludgy sound, but not if you're chasing tighter tones). They do best in brighter sounding guitars ime.
> ragnaroks are lower output comparatively, with less bass or treble so they have a warmer sound. There's more leeway with putting them in brighter or darker guitars since they don't have as big of a low end. They also can get aggressive but you really need to pick hard and use a ton of gain to get them to saturate ime. The warpigs are much more forgiving if you don't have a super heavy right hand. The ragnaroks also have a hint of the juggernaut midrange (ie that kind of vocal quality but it's nowhere near as front and center as it was with the juggs). They also have better cleans than the warpigs.



Thanks so much for your reply dude. I’ve got to be honest ... I really hate the juggernauts !! I could just never really get a great sound out of them although the cleans weren’t too bad. War pigs sound a little too fat for what I’m looking for as well. I like your description of the Rags they seem pretty versatile I would just like to know how great all the cleans exactly?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Sofasoldier said:


> Thanks so much for your reply dude. I’ve got to be honest ... I really hate the juggernauts !! I could just never really get a great sound out of them although the cleans weren’t too bad. War pigs sound a little too fat for what I’m looking for as well. I like your description of the Rags they seem pretty versatile I would just like to know how great all the cleans exactly?


ehh the cleans are worse than the juggs but they're still serviceable, especially if you use split coil modes. I hated the juggernauts and felt the ragnarok was a definite improvement over them in terms of high gain sounds.


----------



## Strobe

Sofasoldier said:


> Could you give me your opinion on the differences between the sounds of both voicings on the moderns and the TA set? Also a description of the cleans on the third voicing would be great. I may replace my moderns with them in my 060 For the added versatility with cleans.



Here is a good video showing off the Tosins in a 7


Here is a good 6 string demo showing off the different positions



My opinions on both:
Modern Bridge V1 - like an EMG 81 but with less upper mid hump, more lower mids, and more sparkly highs. Slightly less compressed. Slightly less attack.
Tosin Bridge V1 - Similar to modern, but with more lower mids, slightly more bass, slightly less sparkly top end. More of a Dimarzio styled "awww" sound to it.

Modern Bridge V2 - More attack vs. V1, more low end, slightly less compressed, slightly less mids. More passive feeling.
Tosin Bridge V2 - Harder to distinguish from modern than V1 is; but mostly just has a little more low mids, and perhaps a bit less compressed compared to the moderns.

V3 Tosin vs. Modern split cleans - Tosin set is fuller sounding. It really sounds like a hot strat bridge single coil and a medium output strat neck tone. The moderns are a little thinner sounding split. Essentially, the Tosin set feels like a lot of effort was put into voicing the clean, and with the modern set, it feels more like splitting any humbucker; a little thin and kind of an afterthought.

The necks I have not played with as much back to back. The differences feel more subtle than the bridge to me.


----------



## Sofasoldier

Strobe said:


> Here is a good video showing off the Tosins in a 7
> 
> 
> Here is a good 6 string demo showing off the different positions
> 
> 
> 
> My opinions on both:
> Modern Bridge V1 - like an EMG 81 but with less upper mid hump, more lower mids, and more sparkly highs. Slightly less compressed. Slightly less attack.
> Tosin Bridge V1 - Similar to modern, but with more lower mids, slightly more bass, slightly less sparkly top end. More of a Dimarzio styled "awww" sound to it.
> 
> Modern Bridge V2 - More attack vs. V1, more low end, slightly less compressed, slightly less mids. More passive feeling.
> Tosin Bridge V2 - Harder to distinguish from modern than V1 is; but mostly just has a little more low mids, and perhaps a bit less compressed compared to the moderns.
> 
> V3 Tosin vs. Modern split cleans - Tosin set is fuller sounding. It really sounds like a hot strat bridge single coil and a medium output strat neck tone. The moderns are a little thinner sounding split. Essentially, the Tosin set feels like a lot of effort was put into voicing the clean, and with the modern set, it feels more like splitting any humbucker; a little thin and kind of an afterthought.
> 
> The necks I have not played with as much back to back. The differences feel more subtle than the bridge to me.




Thanks for the reply dude there’s not enough differences between the modern and the TA to justify a pick up swap going by those videos and your descriptions. The third voice does sound interesting but I already have another guitar with a classic in the bridge and two of the single width pick ups in the middle and neck which I can use to cover clean tones. Also with the guitar that currently has the moderns installed the Piezo makes for some really cool Clinton’s especially when mixed with the neck pick up. I would like to try the classic neck pick up at some point but for now it looks like my next Aristides is going to be passive for a different terminal variety. Cheers for the reply dude and enjoy the rest of your week.


----------



## lewis

can i use one of the spare jumper leads as a ground when wiring up these moderns?

I have no other cables here and I need extra than the box provides for grounds in places etc


----------



## XMetalcheFX

Random question but anyone know wether or not the "strat battery pack" will fit on most conventional tremolo cutouts? Such as a floyd rose backplate etc.

I am getting a buz 7 SWWB and want the rechargeable battery pack when I get my fishmans and just want to see if I can use that backplate battery cover instead of drilling into the guitar for the universal adapter.

Thanks all!


----------



## lewis

could anyone tell me if this quick and terrible photoshop I have done of a single push/pull knob diagram, is correct?


----------



## mnemonic

lewis said:


> could anyone tell me if this quick and terrible photoshop I have done of a single push/pull knob diagram, is correct?



Don’t connect that green and orange to the same pole on that switch. Move one of them up to the other pole. 

Also don’t connect that ground from the pot casing to the jack ring. Just the one to the sleeve is fine 

The way you have it, it will be powered all the time, rather than unpowered when you pull the cable.


----------



## lewis

mnemonic said:


> Don’t connect that green and orange to the same pole on that switch. Move one of them up to the other pole.
> 
> Also don’t connect that ground from the pot casing to the jack ring. Just the one to the sleeve is fine
> 
> The way you have it, it will be powered all the time, rather than unpowered when you pull the cable.


ah thank you.

So to confirm, - 






sorry for being a noob. This is my first ever soldering/pickup installation so.


----------



## mnemonic

lewis said:


> ah thank you.
> 
> So to confirm, -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry for being a noob. This is my first ever soldering/pickup installation so.



Looks good to me


----------



## lewis

mnemonic said:


> Looks good to me


and will any wire do for grounds? I dont have any additional wiring here and was going to use the "jumper" cables that come in the box as "ground" wires.
Will that work?


----------



## Albake21

lewis said:


> and will any wire do for grounds? I dont have any additional wiring here and was going to use the "jumper" cables that come in the box as "ground" wires.
> Will that work?


I've done that before. It will work fine.


----------



## mnemonic

Yeah any wire is fine. The signal level isn’t high enough for wire gauge to matter.


----------



## AirForbes1

XMetalcheFX said:


> Random question but anyone know wether or not the "strat battery pack" will fit on most conventional tremolo cutouts? Such as a floyd rose backplate etc.
> 
> I am getting a buz 7 SWWB and want the rechargeable battery pack when I get my fishmans and just want to see if I can use that backplate battery cover instead of drilling into the guitar for the universal adapter.
> 
> Thanks all!



I don't have personal experience. But, I saw a video from Ben Eller where he was demoing the moderns and I asked him if he was using a battery pack. He said that he was using the "strat battery pack". This was on one of his Ibanez RGs (with an Edge, obviously).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

XMetalcheFX said:


> Random question but anyone know wether or not the "strat battery pack" will fit on most conventional tremolo cutouts? Such as a floyd rose backplate etc.
> 
> I am getting a buz 7 SWWB and want the rechargeable battery pack when I get my fishmans and just want to see if I can use that backplate battery cover instead of drilling into the guitar for the universal adapter.
> 
> Thanks all!



Do they have the dimensions of the battery pack online? Could probably check. 

In my experience, not every back plate is made equal.


----------



## XMetalcheFX

AirForbes1 said:


> I don't have personal experience. But, I saw a video from Ben Eller where he was demoing the moderns and I asked him if he was using a battery pack. He said that he was using the "strat battery pack". This was on one of his Ibanez RGs (with an Edge, obviously).





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Do they have the dimensions of the battery pack online? Could probably check.
> 
> In my experience, not every back plate is made equal.



MANY THANKS!!

Ben Eller is the man, and I will certainly measure. I figured this was a quicker route before I emailed for dimensions.

Thanks as always.


----------



## AirForbes1

XMetalcheFX said:


> MANY THANKS!!
> 
> Ben Eller is the man, and I will certainly measure. I figured this was a quicker route before I emailed for dimensions.
> 
> Thanks as always.








I have a photo from my guitar tech regarding the universal battery install. He sent me a photo of one he was working on. I can send that to you if you'd like to see how much room it takes up.

Screw it. I'll just post it in case anyone is curious. Should have done it sooner seeing as how helpful everyone on this thread has been. I should chip in.




The PCB and the blue thing are for the sustaniac that's installed.


----------



## Lozek

Lozek said:


> Can anyone tell me what size mounting screws six string moderns need? Standard passive mount or the larger size used by EMG?



Anybody know?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Lozek said:


> Anybody know?


standard screws.


----------



## Lozek

KnightBrolaire said:


> standard screws.


Excellent, thanks mate. I direct mount my passives with extra baseplates screwed to the body, was hoping I wouldn't have to change them to swap pickups.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Sofasoldier said:


> So I’m looking for some help here guys. Thinking of ordering another Aristides Thing is ... don’t know which of these pickups would best suit what I’m looking for KM Fishman set or BareKnuckle Ragnarok? Looking for a thick meaty low end for heavy playing in drop C but also want great cleans. Let me know your thoughts currently using Fishman moderns and also have the single coil set. I don’t have much experience with passive pick ups which is the reason for my question.



Fishman Killswitch Engage signature set. They play drop C. They do nice clean sounds. 

Voice 1 is your EMG81 with some extra kids and less low end. 

Voice 2 is the more passive sound which has a LOT of chunk in the low end. ‘Thick and meaty’ requirement is absolutely met. 

And the split coils do sound good also.


----------



## lewis

Can the EMG Solderless kit with the additional 3 way solderless pickup - selector, and a long shaft push/pull solderless volume pot, work with the Fishman fluence moderns?


----------



## mrdm53

Quick question:

Is there any specific model for neck or bridge pickup for Moderns, like Duncan Blackout neck and bridge? or can i swap between bridge and neck (ex: EMG 81-85, with 85 in bridge and 81 in neck)?


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

mrdm53 said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Is there any specific model for neck or bridge pickup for Moderns, like Duncan Blackout neck and bridge? or can i swap between bridge and neck (ex: EMG 81-85, with 85 in bridge and 81 in neck)?


They're perfectly interchangeable, and some would argue that doing so is better than the "intended" position. Fishman themselves encourage giving it a shot too, so have at it.


----------



## lewis

so got the fishmans installed on the EMG solderless set and the solderless 3 way switch however im only getting signal on Neck pickup, nothing on middle or bridge?

what have I done wrong?


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> so got the fishmans installed on the EMG solderless set and the solderless 3 way switch however im only getting signal on Neck pickup, nothing on middle or bridge?
> 
> what have I done wrong?



Step one, verify that you are matching your wiring diagram. Unfortunately it is not just one thing you could have done to produce this result. If yes, it is usually a cold solder joint. Watch a video on soldering technique and reheat / reattach the connections that go to the bridge.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> Step one, verify that you are matching your wiring diagram. Unfortunately it is not just one thing you could have done to produce this result. If yes, it is usually a cold solder joint. Watch a video on soldering technique and reheat / reattach the connections that go to the bridge.


the only place Ive had to solder is a ground wire to ring on the output from under the bridge to ground these Fishmans and again to extend the ground wire that goes from output to 3 way switch

Everything else is plugged in solderlessly using the EMG quick Connect?

Its getting so damn ridiculous now.
Im getting to the stage where Im guna sell these Fishmans, and only ever go single EMG bridge pickup in all my guitars. Screw neck pickups.


----------



## lewis

update, I had installed/soldered fine but had both pickup cables around the wrong way on the 3 way switch haha

swapped them around and voilla. 
These sound really good!


----------



## cip 123

Love the Fishmans, but really starting to despise the active part again. And with Fishman not looking like they'll be releasing any better charging options for them I'm honestly looking at switching back to passives.

Anyone else?


----------



## IsaacEsquireIV

Hi all,
quick question
I've been using Fluences for about a year now and I'm absolutely loving them. I had a tech install them for me but he's since moved away.
I have them wired (as per diagram) so the positions on the 3 way switch are Neck-Both-Bridge
I was wondering if anybody could show me how to alter that so the middle position is the 2 inner coils split, rather than both pickups using both coils?
As I said, my tech is gone so I'm gonna try do it myself, if its simple enough
thanks heaps


----------



## lewis

cip 123 said:


> Love the Fishmans, but really starting to despise the active part again. And with Fishman not looking like they'll be releasing any better charging options for them I'm honestly looking at switching back to passives.
> 
> Anyone else?


its funny because Im the opposite.
For some reason that pre gig restring/guitar clean and maintenance thing feels way more real and special for me when it includes changing the battery to the pickups hahaha

dont ask me why. Its completely illogical but just feels a bigger deal and I have more of a "moment" after its all finished and the guitar looks good as new again waiting to be slayed live.

dumb asf but hey/ Our minds are weird haha


----------



## cip 123

lewis said:


> its funny because Im the opposite.
> For some reason that pre gig restring/guitar clean and maintenance thing feels way more real and special for me when it includes changing the battery to the pickups hahaha
> 
> dont ask me why. Its completely illogical but just feels a bigger deal and I have more of a "moment" after its all finished and the guitar looks good as new again waiting to be slayed live.
> 
> dumb asf but hey/ Our minds are weird haha


9V are expensive I can't be bothered running out before a gig to spend £5 for 1 9V battery that isn't even gonna last as long as an EMG considering how thirsty these pups are. And I for damn sure am not taking a router to my Custom shop just to fit the universal charger in. 

When these came out I begged them for the Greg Kock output jack charger but no luck sadly.


----------



## lewis

cip 123 said:


> 9V are expensive I can't be bothered running out before a gig to spend £5 for 1 9V battery that isn't even gonna last as long as an EMG considering how thirsty these pups are. And I for damn sure am not taking a router to my Custom shop just to fit the universal charger in.
> 
> When these came out I begged them for the *Greg Kock output jack charger *but no luck sadly.


yeah why isnt this available for purchase??!?!

I mean considering how "innovative" Fishman are apparently, and how "stuck in the past" EMG are, its funny that EMG use Quick connect which shits on all this other wiring stuff, and Fishman dont make things like that available? haha


----------



## cip 123

lewis said:


> yeah why isnt this available for purchase??!?!
> 
> I mean considering how "innovative" Fishman are apparently, and how "stuck in the past" EMG are, its funny that EMG use Quick connect which shits on all this other wiring stuff, and Fishman dont make things like that available? haha


Yup, Unless you're Keith Merrow, no way to get it aside from the Koch set.

And yes I don't understand this half solder half quick connect business, Surely it could've just ben done all quick connect?


All this aside, I am still looking at a modern 7 for my Jericho  but it's cheap used and the Jericho has a much bigger control cavity.


----------



## StevenC

Javier posted his new signature set on Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Btlpe1HDRDb/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=dozmths1nfjy


----------



## Albake21

StevenC said:


> Javier posted his new signature set on Instagram.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Btlpe1HDRDb/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=dozmths1nfjy


Well that sure was quicker than I thought. Super happy to see them open coil instead of soap bar.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> yeah why isnt this available for purchase??!?!
> 
> I mean considering how "innovative" Fishman are apparently, and how "stuck in the past" EMG are, its funny that EMG use Quick connect which shits on all this other wiring stuff, and Fishman dont make things like that available? haha



The output jack charger is just where you plug it in. There is still a battery - it happens to be installed in the tele control plate that also comes with the set. The Les Paul and strat backplates are super hassle free and easy to install. The universal battery requires a small amount of drilling plastic and will not fit every guitar depending on how much space you have available - it is less hassle free.

Regarding the quick connect stuff - it all works with Fishman - it's just that the options on the Fishman pickups include a lot more switching and tone tweaking. If you prefer just one option like the EMG's, you can use jumpers to turn on something like voice 2 and leave it on. It would be hard to make a quick connect setup for how complicated the switching options can get when you have as many options as these have. The downside is that it is necessarily a more complicated wiring scheme - but only if you want the options.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> The output jack charger is just where you plug it in. There is still a battery - it happens to be installed in the tele control plate that also comes with the set. The Les Paul and strat backplates are super hassle free and easy to install. The universal battery requires a small amount of drilling plastic and will not fit every guitar depending on how much space you have available - it is less hassle free.
> 
> Regarding the quick connect stuff - it all works with Fishman - it's just that the options on the Fishman pickups include a lot more switching and tone tweaking. If you prefer just one option like the EMG's, you can use jumpers to turn on something like voice 2 and leave it on. It would be hard to make a quick connect setup for how complicated the switching options can get when you have as many options as these have. The downside is that it is necessarily a more complicated wiring scheme - but only if you want the options.


you say that but EMG make a solderless push/pull switch and a solderless DPDT switch, so wouldnt one or both, still cover all options the Fishman pups provide?

because if not, how is that different from a push/pull pot being soldering that changes the voicings?


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> you say that but EMG make a solderless push/pull switch and a solderless DPDT switch, so wouldnt one or both, still cover all options the Fishman pups provide?
> 
> because if not, how is that different from a push/pull pot being soldering that changes the voicings?



They do have a solderless push pull. The set, unfortunately, only has one push pull pot in it; it sells for about $59 (for example https://www.ebay.com/p/EMG-1-2-Pick...s-PPP-W-Push-Pull/1600706067?iid=291869592898). The pot itself sells for about $29. That makes it easier if you dislike soldering. Using all of the voice switches on a Fishman modern would be something like 5 push pulls (voice, gain, hf tilt, outer coil, inner coil). If you have 2 holes for pots, pick 2.

The same kind of quick connects on EMGs are the same kind of quick connects are the same kind on the Fishmans. My point was more that it's not that Fishman is backwards just because wiring for options is by necessity more complicated. You can just plug and play if you just want one voice always engaged, like you would for an EMG81 where that is the only option.


----------



## NoodleFace

learning to solder should not be a gate to happiness.

It's an incredibly easy skill to pick up


----------



## KnightBrolaire

NoodleFace said:


> learning to solder should not be a gate to happiness.
> 
> It's an incredibly easy skill to pick up


exactly. it's a useful skill that every guitarist should know, since even if the pickups are quick connect, chances are the output jacks or other parts aren't. plus it translates to working on pedals, cables, amps,etc


----------



## NoodleFace

I have yet to work on an amp (I'm a wuss), but I've done all the above and soldered stuff onto a broken laptop. Saved several thousands of dollars at this point.


----------



## lewis

NoodleFace said:


> learning to solder should not be a gate to happiness.
> 
> It's an incredibly easy skill to pick up


i have learnt. There was still soldering involved in my solderless EMG install. Soldering the bridge ground to the ring on output jack, and one quick connect cable that goes from output to 3 way switch, wasnt long enough to reach the 3 way, so I had to cut it in the middle and solder in an extension piece of cable that I then used heat shrinking over the top of both joins.

Point is I dont like soldering and want to avoid it going forward. The fact Im learning I have a preference for the feel and tone of EMG pickups is an added bonus given they are the ones that use quick connect.

so dont get me complaining about soldering twisted. Its still a very very dated thing to do in 2019, and given technological advancements in guitar'ing specifically, completely outdated unless you are one of these "tube amp are the best" type snobs when it comes to soldering pickups the old fashioned way.


----------



## mnemonic

To be fair, modelers are also full of soldered connections. 

I don’t really think it’s dated, you’ll get the best electrical connection with solder, compared to any kind of clip or plug. Solder (done right) also won’t vibrate loose over time. 

For passive pickups I don’t think I would want a solderless system, but for actives like EMG’s which have a low impedence output, there’s no real problems. 

Once you get really good at soldering it takes probably the same amount of time as clipping a solderless system together. I thought I was good at soldering from just doing pickup changes, but after making a bunch of pedals and working with tagboard and PCB’s, I’m much better and much cleaner with my work. 

Plus, soldered components will always be cheaper.


----------



## lewis

mnemonic said:


> To be fair, modelers are also full of soldered connections.
> 
> I don’t really think it’s dated, you’ll get the best electrical connection with solder, compared to any kind of clip or plug. Solder (done right) also won’t vibrate loose over time.
> 
> For passive pickups I don’t think I would want a solderless system, but for actives like EMG’s which have a low impedence output, there’s no real problems.
> 
> Once you get really good at soldering it takes probably the same amount of time as clipping a solderless system together. I thought I was good at soldering from just doing pickup changes, but after making a bunch of pedals and working with tagboard and PCB’s, I’m much better and much cleaner with my work.
> 
> Plus, soldered components will always be cheaper.


I should have specified I wasnt talking about mother boards or like internals of computers and such.

I am specifically talking about only guitar.

I do get what you mean though. I can see both sides of it. I just would prefer not too if i can avoid it. Im still going to keep my soldering iron/solder


----------



## NoodleFace

Btw, I wasn't specifically targeting you. Just a lot of people are either scared or otherwise despise soldering. I understand that. I just think it'd a great skill to have. 

I can wire up pickups in a couple minutes once they're in the guitar. I also trust solder more than a bunch of harnesses and clips


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mnemonic said:


> To be fair, modelers are also full of soldered connections.
> 
> I don’t really think it’s dated, you’ll get the best electrical connection with solder, compared to any kind of clip or plug. Solder (done right) also won’t vibrate loose over time.
> 
> For passive pickups I don’t think I would want a solderless system, but for actives like EMG’s which have a low impedence output, there’s no real problems.
> 
> Once you get really good at soldering it takes probably the same amount of time as clipping a solderless system together. I thought I was good at soldering from just doing pickup changes, but after making a bunch of pedals and working with tagboard and PCB’s, I’m much better and much cleaner with my work.
> 
> Plus, soldered components will always be cheaper.


screw in connectors like the duncan liberator are the way forward imo. I can change a pickup in like a minute on my overload 8 string because of the screw in connectors, versus it takes me like 30 seconds more if I solder, which adds up to a lot of saved time in my case


----------



## lewis

NoodleFace said:


> Btw, I wasn't specifically targeting you. Just a lot of people are either scared or otherwise despise soldering. I understand that. I just think it'd a great skill to have.
> 
> 
> I can wire up pickups in a couple minutes once they're in the guitar. I also trust solder more than a bunch of harnesses and clips



Ah thats fair.


----------



## op1e

The Modern bridge pickup is really starting to grow off me. Hopefully theres more passive sized brushed stainless 7 pickups soon. Voice 1 is so shrill and too hot. I think was a huge mistake to not have a tone pot. But I had 2 holes for pots and wanted a neck volume. Voice 2 way better but a bit to tubby and too much loss of output. Something in the middle would be great. I'm gonna throw the Alnico in the bridge and hope I'm happy. Otherwise for the first time I'm gonna crank my 100hz knob on my overdrive or run my Sonic Stomp out front.


----------



## Strobe

op1e said:


> The Modern bridge pickup is really starting to grow off me. Hopefully theres more passive sized brushed stainless 7 pickups soon. Voice 1 is so shrill and too hot. I think was a huge mistake to not have a tone pot. But I had 2 holes for pots and wanted a neck volume. Voice 2 way better but a bit to tubby and too much loss of output. Something in the middle would be great. I'm gonna throw the Alnico in the bridge and hope I'm happy. Otherwise for the first time I'm gonna crank my 100hz knob on my overdrive or run my Sonic Stomp out front.



The shrill part really depends on the guitar; but it approaches that on my mahogany / maple cap 7 that has it. In an alder bodied guitar I have, it does not do that; but I always thought alder was good at tempering some undesirable high frequencies. That said, the too hot on voice 1 thing is absolutely fixable. It probably came with these little black plastic jumpers put that on the V1 gain pins on the back of it. Voice 1 will immediately be 6db lower in output, and it will probably solve part of the problem for you with very little work. You could also technically wire it to a switch.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Also use a jumper on the HF Tilt pins if you feel the pickups are too sharp and shrill.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> The shrill part really depends on the guitar; but it approaches that on my mahogany / maple cap 7 that has it. In an alder bodied guitar I have, it does not do that; but I always thought alder was good at tempering some undesirable high frequencies. That said, the too hot on voice 1 thing is absolutely fixable. It probably came with these little black plastic jumpers put that on the V1 gain pins on the back of it. Voice 1 will immediately be 6db lower in output, and it will probably solve part of the problem for you with very little work. You could also technically wire it to a switch.



Feels abit cocked wah'ish in my Ibanez too. (Basswood/rosewood/maple) in active voice. But suits my bands style and tuning so im not overly fussed.


----------



## op1e

Alright I'm gonna pull them up and see about doing that. My damn tech kept all the parts gotta get them back.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

For me, I wish the Moderns didn't have the HF tilt. I with they had the -6db gain for both voicings. 2 separate jumpers. I love having voice 1 on full tilt, and I feel like Voice 2 with the db drop would be nice to have something that sounded more like a hot-rodded PAF for more versatility.


----------



## op1e

I see what you're saying. Something that could drop you right into that low blues gain like the break in Wicked Sensation or the intro to Monkey Business lol. Without being a weak sauce single coil.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

op1e said:


> I see what you're saying. Something that could drop you right into that low blues gain like the break in Wicked Sensation or the intro to Monkey Business lol. Without being a weak sauce single coil.



Yup exactly. Something similar to voice 1 of the Classics, but more modern-ness. 

I find V1 of the classics and V2 of the Moderns have some similarities. It's just V2 of the moderns have more growl, tightness, and output. Otherwise both are scooped, plenty of low end, and a very bright upper midrange/high end.


----------



## op1e

I've been dialing my patches in for what module I'm running on the Randall, or what other amps I'm running. But really I need to dial in my patches for my pickups. Separate bank for 7 string stuff vs passive drop C. Pre EQ low boost for voice 1, mid boost for voice 2. Another fine use for the gsp1101.


----------



## XMetalcheFX

AirForbes1 said:


> View attachment 66617
> 
> 
> I have a photo from my guitar tech regarding the universal battery install. He sent me a photo of one he was working on. I can send that to you if you'd like to see how much room it takes up.
> 
> Screw it. I'll just post it in case anyone is curious. Should have done it sooner seeing as how helpful everyone on this thread has been. I should chip in.
> 
> View attachment 66618
> 
> 
> The PCB and the blue thing are for the sustaniac that's installed.
> 
> View attachment 66619





Hey man thank you very much for the effort in the response! I appreciate it. The tremolo cavity cover will in fact fit so I am crunchwrap supreme (good to go)!


----------



## Techdeath

I recently got a strandberg boden with the 2 voicing fluence modern set in it. I love the full sounds they produce and the split clean sounds, but I was wondering what you would recommend I replace the modern neck with in order to get a strattier sounding split coil sound for overdriven lead work, say akin to yngwie malmsteen?


----------



## Strobe

Techdeath said:


> I recently got a strandberg boden with the 2 voicing fluence modern set in it. I love the full sounds they produce and the split clean sounds, but I was wondering what you would recommend I replace the modern neck with in order to get a strattier sounding split coil sound for overdriven lead work, say akin to yngwie malmsteen?



So the split voicing or voice 2 on the modern neck did not get you there? In the fluence line, the Tosin set has a single coil voice 3 that is *super* stratty. This may not be a great option for you as it only sells new as a set.


----------



## NoodleFace

The KM set has a single coil mode but I'm not sure that's what you really want or not.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

Techdeath said:


> I recently got a strandberg boden with the 2 voicing fluence modern set in it. I love the full sounds they produce and the split clean sounds, but I was wondering what you would recommend I replace the modern neck with in order to get a strattier sounding split coil sound for overdriven lead work, say akin to yngwie malmsteen?


Really, your only option for soapbar fishmans is the TA set. But, if you somehow don't mind the look of an open coil neck pickup with the soapbar bridge, the classic 8 neck (which is essentially the KM neck) would get you there without buying a whole set. 

But on the bright side of buying the TA set, you'll have the option of 3 different bridge pickups to choose from (both of your stock pickups can be a neck or bridge pickup, and of course the TA bridge pickup)


----------



## NoodleFace

I do kind of wish the KM set was a soapbar set, that's for sure.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hey guys if I like the EMG 57/66 set that is in my schecter hellraiser hybrid, but I wanted something that still has the same character of the EMGs (PAF sounding to a degree) but was just a tad bit gainier, had better cleans and was a bit tighter bass, what would be a good fluence set for me? I Can think of a few that might be possible ones to try out with and see if they come close for me. But I know some of you guys here are smarter in this shit than me so I would appreciate your guys' opinions.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hey guys if I like the EMG 57/66 set that is in my schecter hellraiser hybrid, but I wanted something that still has the same character of the EMGs (PAF sounding to a degree) but was just a tad bit gainier, had better cleans and was a bit tighter bass, what would be a good fluence set for me? I Can think of a few that might be possible ones to try out with and see if they come close for me. But I know some of you guys here are smarter in this shit than me so I would appreciate your guys' opinions.


prob the classics or the merrows.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

KnightBrolaire said:


> prob the classics or the merrows.



Would that still apply in guitars with different woods? My schecter is mahog body, maple neck, quilt maple top and ebony board or are the fishmans sound completely the same regardless of the wood? I know this is a can of worms I am sparking, but I just love the sound of them so much in my Schecter and want something that is just more fine tweaked to what I like.


----------



## Strobe

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Would that still apply in guitars with different woods? My schecter is mahog body, maple neck, quilt maple top and ebony board or are the fishmans sound completely the same regardless of the wood? I know this is a can of worms I am sparking, but I just love the sound of them so much in my Schecter and want something that is just more fine tweaked to what I like.



The EMG81 is very compressed and focused. This tends to minimize the differences between how different levels of pick dynamics and guitar construction sound.

The Fishman pickups are a little less compressed in the case of the moderns, and a lot less compressed in the case of the classics. Please let's not derail this with tonewood. Suffice it to say, if you think different construction materials sound different with passives, you will think they will with the Fluence pickups as well, and with the classics in particular.


----------



## NoodleFace

I'm glad you said "if you think" , ok not derailing any further


----------



## Steinmetzify

Am I right in thinking I could chuck a Modern in my one pup Charvel with no soldering?

It's an EZ fix harness, like the EMG harness so there's no switch, just a volume knob and the output jack, right?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

steinmetzify said:


> Am I right in thinking I could chuck a Modern in my one pup Charvel with no soldering?
> 
> It's an EZ fix harness, like the EMG harness so there's no switch, just a volume knob and the output jack, right?



Is the guitar passive or active. If it's passive, no. Active, yes. Also you're stuck with only 1 voicing. Voice 1 without the jumper, voice 2 with.


----------



## Steinmetzify

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Is the guitar passive or active. If it's passive, no. Active, yes. Also you're stuck with only 1 voicing. Voice 1 without the jumper, voice 2 with.



Fuck. It’s got a Black Winter in it right now. 

Don’t understand what I’m missing; the 1 voice thing isn’t an issue, don’t get why I’d have to solder anything.


----------



## Strobe

steinmetzify said:


> Fuck. It’s got a Black Winter in it right now.
> 
> Don’t understand what I’m missing; the 1 voice thing isn’t an issue, don’t get why I’d have to solder anything.



Passive pickups use different resistance values in the potentiometers (aka pots). Most humbuckers use 500 kilo-ohm resistors in the pots. Active pickups use 25 kilo-ohm resistors. The reason for this difference has to do with the different ways a high impedance (i.e. passive) circuit responds as compared to a low impedance (i.e. active) to both resistors and capacitors. Speaking of capacitors, those would be different too on the tone pots.

This is the reason why you can direct swap a Fishman Fluence set for EMG's (or other active pickups) and not for a passive pickup. It will not sound right.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Strobe said:


> Passive pickups use different resistance values in the potentiometers (aka pots). Most humbuckers use 500 kilo-ohm resistors in the pots. Active pickups use 25 kilo-ohm resistors. The reason for this difference has to do with the different ways a high impedance (i.e. passive) circuit responds as compared to a low impedance (i.e. active) to both resistors and capacitors. Speaking of capacitors, those would be different too on the tone pots.
> 
> This is the reason why you can direct swap a Fishman Fluence set for EMG's (or other active pickups) and not for a passive pickup. It will not sound right.



No I get all that....I'm not just trying to swap one pickup for another......I want to rip all the guts out and just use what comes in the Fishman pack...pot, jack, wiring and pickup.

I don't have to solder anything that way, correct? Should just be tabs or those click connectors for the harness to the pickup and to the jack, right?


----------



## Gmork

Strobe said:


> Passive pickups use different resistance values in the potentiometers (aka pots). Most humbuckers use 500 kilo-ohm resistors in the pots. Active pickups use 25 kilo-ohm resistors. The reason for this difference has to do with the different ways a high impedance (i.e. passive) circuit responds as compared to a low impedance (i.e. active) to both resistors and capacitors. Speaking of capacitors, those would be different too on the tone pots.
> 
> This is the reason why you can direct swap a Fishman Fluence set for EMG's (or other active pickups) and not for a passive pickup. It will not sound right.


So theres zero soldering if for instants i wanted to swap the emg808 in my ironlabel 8 with a tosin?


----------



## Strobe

steinmetzify said:


> No I get all that....I'm not just trying to swap one pickup for another......I want to rip all the guts out and just use what comes in the Fishman pack...pot, jack, wiring and pickup.
> 
> I don't have to solder anything that way, correct? Should just be tabs or those click connectors for the harness to the pickup and to the jack, right?



Sorry, I misunderstood. The stock Fishman stuff has quick connects on the pickup side. It does not have quick connects on the pot side. So you plug into the pickup, but then you have to solder the switching side.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

steinmetzify said:


> No I get all that....I'm not just trying to swap one pickup for another......I want to rip all the guts out and just use what comes in the Fishman pack...pot, jack, wiring and pickup.
> 
> I don't have to solder anything that way, correct? Should just be tabs or those click connectors for the harness to the pickup and to the jack, right?



No, Fishman guts/wiring require soldering. They're not a solderless system like EMG.

BUT, you CAN use the EMG solderless system with the Fluences.



Gmork said:


> So theres zero soldering if for instants i wanted to swap the emg808 in my ironlabel 8 with a tosin?



Correct. Just as I said before... You're stuck with one vocicing.


----------



## Strobe

Gmork said:


> So theres zero soldering if for instants i wanted to swap the emg808 in my ironlabel 8 with a tosin?



If all you want is one voice on the Fishmans, yes. You pull the quick connect out of the EMG, you plug it into the Fishman. It will have none of the switching features, because you have not installed switches. I actually have a guitar with it like that on the moderns, because I mostly just use v1. On the Tosins though, the third single coil voicing is excellent. I would personally not want to miss it.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Strobe said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood. The stock Fishman stuff has quick connects on the pickup side. It does not have quick connects on the pot side. So you plug into the pickup, but then you have to solder the switching side.



Crap. Ok, thanks guys.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kinda curious to see if anyone's tried the Merrow or Classic Open Coil 8-string set. How well does it handle the low F#? I kinda feel like they'd be in the same camp as the Lundgrens.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kinda curious to see if anyone's tried the Merrow or Classic Open Coil 8-string set. How well does it handle the low F#? I kinda feel like they'd be in the same camp as the Lundgrens.



I honestly don't think I'd like the 8-string KMs. The low end on my 7s is just a bit hard to push through at times. Still a great pickup, but that's a con with it for me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

LeviathanKiller said:


> I honestly don't think I'd like the 8-string KMs. The low end on my 7s is just a bit hard to push through at times. Still a great pickup, but that's a con with it for me.



Kinda curious about what you mean by that?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kinda curious about what you mean by that?


String separation is great until you get to the lowest string and it tries to separate from your power chords. It wobbles out from the rest of the strings a tad (although I have a heavy picking my other pickups don't suffer from this).

Could be the settings I use, my style, the strings, etc. but that's just my personal prediction for that set in an 8-string.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Sorry, total noob question

If I have a guitar with the KSE set, and another guitar with the Modern set, can the two be simply swapped using the quick connectors, and all voices/coil splits will work in the other guitar?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Flappydoodle said:


> Sorry, total noob question
> 
> If I have a guitar with the KSE set, and another guitar with the Modern set, can the two be simply swapped using the quick connectors, and all voices/coil splits will work in the other guitar?



If they have the exact same wiring in each guitar then yes. If for example you have a DT set and you have two push pulls and one does voice 2 and one does the split and you try to swap the set for another set you might have some limitations.

But again if they wired up the same way in each guitar you shouldn't have any issues in doing so. Only time with quick connects that you cant activate all the voicings is when you are swapping them using the EMG quick connect since they don't have a way to toggle between the voices, at least not yet


----------



## Flappydoodle

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> If they have the exact same wiring in each guitar then yes. If for example you have a DT set and you have two push pulls and one does voice 2 and one does the split and you try to swap the set for another set you might have some limitations.
> 
> But again if they wired up the same way in each guitar you shouldn't have any issues in doing so. Only time with quick connects that you cant activate all the voicings is when you are swapping them using the EMG quick connect since they don't have a way to toggle between the voices, at least not yet



Sounds good, thanks.

Both guitars have one volume knob and a 5-way switch. But the actual config of the 5-way is different (coil splits at various positions etc). I assume that would be compatible.


----------



## cardinal

Just thought I’d throw this out there. I have one guitar with the Moderns and like them well enough with the JCM 800 I’ve used for years, and was thinking of getting an 8-string set for another guitar that I’ve been unhappy with it’s pickups. 

But damn I’ve started using an old Marshall Super Lead lately, and the Moderns in either mode sound absolutely terrible with that amp (various Duncans sound great). The Moderns are just super “crispy” for some reason. I had considered them fairly smooth with the JCM 800. Really surprised by how different they react to different amps.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Just changed the 9V battery in my KSE set-equipped guitar. 

HOLY. SHIT. What a huge difference.

The thing is, the sound before the change was not even close to dead. I only changed because I think it's been about 6 months since I installed these.

With EMGs, the battery works until it stops. When the battery is dead, you get almost no sound. But it's pretty consistent throughout the lifespan of the battery.

But these Fishman pickups - now I’m wondering how often to change 9V batteries. Because waiting until they’re dead isn’t a good idea apparently, since they’ll gradually degrade in sound quality before that. Is it a voltage supply thing?

My other guitar has the Fishman battery pack, which I keep topped up every week or so - presumably that is delivering a more consistent voltage.

Has anybody else found this phenomenon with the battery?


----------



## Strobe

Flappydoodle said:


> Just changed the 9V battery in my KSE set-equipped guitar.
> 
> HOLY. SHIT. What a huge difference.
> 
> The thing is, the sound before the change was not even close to dead. I only changed because I think it's been about 6 months since I installed these.
> 
> With EMGs, the battery works until it stops. When the battery is dead, you get almost no sound. But it's pretty consistent throughout the lifespan of the battery.
> 
> But these Fishman pickups - now I’m wondering how often to change 9V batteries. Because waiting until they’re dead isn’t a good idea apparently, since they’ll gradually degrade in sound quality before that. Is it a voltage supply thing?
> 
> My other guitar has the Fishman battery pack, which I keep topped up every week or so - presumably that is delivering a more consistent voltage.
> 
> Has anybody else found this phenomenon with the battery?



Yeah, but for me the "this sounds different" to "it's dead, Jim" period was not very long. Maybe a day from when it was noticeable to when it was dead.

Different batteries have different voltage outputs as they die. A nice thing about lithium (phone type) batteries is that the voltage stays a lot more consistent at the end of life. Different types of alkaline batteries behave differently, but they tend to drop off in voltage quite a bit towards the end.

That's a good reason to opt for the battery pack, but if your guitar already has a battery compartment it's tough to justify the $100 and soldering work - especially when you have 7 guitars with fluence pickups and only 3 of them have the battery pack. That would be $400 bucks, and it does not fit in everything.


----------



## NoodleFace

It's because 9V batteries have multiple cells and they don't all drain at the same rate. That means as the 9V battery ages and depletes you could be getting a much lower charge towards end of life. 

My guess is the fishman circuits are much less forgiving to low voltage than emg.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Strobe said:


> Yeah, but for me the "this sounds different" to "it's dead, Jim" period was not very long. Maybe a day from when it was noticeable to when it was dead.
> 
> Different batteries have different voltage outputs as they die. A nice thing about lithium (phone type) batteries is that the voltage stays a lot more consistent at the end of life. Different types of alkaline batteries behave differently, but they tend to drop off in voltage quite a bit towards the end.
> 
> That's a good reason to opt for the battery pack, but if your guitar already has a battery compartment it's tough to justify the $100 and soldering work - especially when you have 7 guitars with fluence pickups and only 3 of them have the battery pack. That would be $400 bucks, and it does not fit in everything.



Oh interesting. So perhaps I was just lucky changing the battery now. I'll keep a closer eye on it this time.

Agree though - the battery packs are expensive, though plugging my guitar into the wall is quite novel haha


----------



## Velokki

I changed the EMG 81/85 set from my MH-1000ET to the Fluence Killswitch Engage set.

Been playing them for a couple of weeks. Not really gonna write a proper review, but the Fluence set whips the EMGs ass on every front possible. The clean tones particularly are something I could never get with the 81/85 set. It has 3 voices, unlike other Fluence sets. The single coil sounds really cool too.

The only thing EMGs are useful for after these, is if you're trying to replicate famous tones from, let's say, 2005-2010 that used the 81/85 set. They have that certain sound. Fishmans are more sterile in a sense, and super accurate to transmit every ringing string. But man, I would personally never go back there anymore! 

The biggest returns I see from recording - everything sounds clearer and better, and they're super versatile, too. If anyone's coming from the EMG world and is still hesitating, I would encourage to go for it.


----------



## Rich5150

I have a ESP Donais that i put a Modern set in, Picked up the rechargeable pack and dropped it in the battery cavity made my own cover plate to house the usb plug and no more 9v's.

I had to dremel a little bit off the inside because I'm a dumbass and didn't line up the usb correctly


----------



## wakjob

Flappydoodle said:


> Just changed the 9V battery in my KSE set-equipped guitar.
> 
> HOLY. SHIT. What a huge difference.
> 
> The thing is, the sound before the change was not even close to dead. I only changed because I think it's been about 6 months since I installed these.
> 
> With EMGs, the battery works until it stops. When the battery is dead, you get almost no sound. But it's pretty consistent throughout the lifespan of the battery.
> 
> But these Fishman pickups - now I’m wondering how often to change 9V batteries. Because waiting until they’re dead isn’t a good idea apparently, since they’ll gradually degrade in sound quality before that. Is it a voltage supply thing?
> 
> My other guitar has the Fishman battery pack, which I keep topped up every week or so - presumably that is delivering a more consistent voltage.
> 
> Has anybody else found this phenomenon with the battery?



There's a dude on YT, channel called "Project Farm" that does pretty good testing of batteries.

If I remember right, the Lithium batteries will hold their peak charge the longest before puking out all most suddenly.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Flappydoodle said:


> Just changed the 9V battery in my KSE set-equipped guitar.
> 
> HOLY. SHIT. What a huge difference.
> 
> The thing is, the sound before the change was not even close to dead. I only changed because I think it's been about 6 months since I installed these.
> 
> With EMGs, the battery works until it stops. When the battery is dead, you get almost no sound. But it's pretty consistent throughout the lifespan of the battery.
> 
> But these Fishman pickups - now I’m wondering how often to change 9V batteries. Because waiting until they’re dead isn’t a good idea apparently, since they’ll gradually degrade in sound quality before that. Is it a voltage supply thing?
> 
> My other guitar has the Fishman battery pack, which I keep topped up every week or so - presumably that is delivering a more consistent voltage.
> 
> Has anybody else found this phenomenon with the battery?



I play live pretty much actively. Around 1 hour sets 3-4 times a week plus rehearsals and home practice. I change batteries every month when i didn't have the fluence rechargeable pack. With batteries they dont consistently put out 9v so you hear some degrading maybe 3 weeks into using them. Like some people say here, if you are not keen on using the fluence battery pack, rechargeable batteries are just as good. 

I kinda know when my moders run out of juice. You here a very noticeable loss in treble and the bass gets squishy. Usually the bass is super fast and tight.


----------



## diagrammatiks

You can get rechargeable lithium ion batteries in an 9v size package now. 

That’s pretty much all I use for my piezo guitars. 

Just installed the Tosin set in my Strandberg 7. 

They are interesting. I don’t know if they blow all my other pickups away but they are definitely different. Very clear and articulate to the point of almost being ice picky clean. 

Super fast and mean under gain. 

Much much better then the laces


----------



## cardinal

cardinal said:


> Just thought I’d throw this out there. I have one guitar with the Moderns and like them well enough with the JCM 800 I’ve used for years, and was thinking of getting an 8-string set for another guitar that I’ve been unhappy with it’s pickups.
> 
> But damn I’ve started using an old Marshall Super Lead lately, and the Moderns in either mode sound absolutely terrible with that amp (various Duncans sound great). The Moderns are just super “crispy” for some reason. I had considered them fairly smooth with the JCM 800. Really surprised by how different they react to different amps.



Well, just to follow up on this: I plugged the Fluence guitar in this morning and it sounded great with the Super Lead. Had the thick, smooth-ish sound that I would have expected. Not sure what wasn’t working before; I did a few circuit tweaks and readjusted the SL’s controls. But now I’m back to wanting an 8-string set since the 7-string set seems to work pretty well.


----------



## cardinal

Ok Fluence guys: is there a Fluence similar to the vintage mode on the Modern but with a bit more high end? Wondering is maybe that’s the Abasi or even the Open Core or Merrow? The actual modern mode is a bit more aggressive that I really want. But I like the big, full sound of the vintage mode. It’s just a bit “flat” or dull.


----------



## Strobe

cardinal said:


> Ok Fluence guys: is there a Fluence similar to the vintage mode on the Modern but with a bit more high end? Wondering is maybe that’s the Abasi or even the Open Core or Merrow? The actual modern mode is a bit more aggressive that I really want. But I like the big, full sound of the vintage mode. It’s just a bit “flat” or dull.



Not sure what you mean - the two modern voicings are the active voicing and the passive voicing. Both are pretty modern sounding, although the resonant peak is a little higher on the passive with a little more low end (that is ever so slightly looser). As I hear it, the passive voice has more pick attack. The active voice has more midrange girth while being a little smoother.

I am not super familiar with the Merrow set, I do not own them and have only heard clips. I own most of the other sets. If you can find a guitar with the classics, give it a try. They are still my favorites of the bunch particularly in voice 2. I prefer a brighter tone than most. The Merrow neck is the same as the classic, the Merrow bridge is probably closer to your ideal if you want more low end than the classics (based on clips).

I would stay away from Tosin set if you want brighter. It's very similar with a different low-mid character.


----------



## cardinal

Strobe said:


> Not sure what you mean - the two modern voicings are the active voicing and the passive voicing. Both are pretty modern sounding, although the resonant peak is a little higher on the passive with a little more low end (that is ever so slightly looser). As I hear it, the passive voice has more pick attack. The active voice has more midrange girth while being a little smoother.
> 
> I am not super familiar with the Merrow set, I do not own them and have only heard clips. I own most of the other sets. If you can find a guitar with the classics, give it a try. They are still my favorites of the bunch particularly in voice 2. I prefer a brighter tone than most. The Merrow neck is the same as the classic, the Merrow bridge is probably closer to your ideal if you want more low end than the classics (based on clips).
> 
> I would stay away from Tosin set if you want brighter. It's very similar with a different low-mid character.



Sorry, I guess I mean that I’m looking for something like the “passive” mode of the Modern pickup, but with a bit more cut. The “active” mode is a bit too scooped or aggressive or something for my taste.


----------



## lewis

Considering how many are reporting how quickly Fishmans drain batteries, Im going to by habbit just put a new battery in every say 2/3 months


----------



## Flappydoodle

cardinal said:


> Ok Fluence guys: is there a Fluence similar to the vintage mode on the Modern but with a bit more high end? Wondering is maybe that’s the Abasi or even the Open Core or Merrow? The actual modern mode is a bit more aggressive that I really want. But I like the big, full sound of the vintage mode. It’s just a bit “flat” or dull.



KSE set?

Voice 2 (passive voice) is like the modern, but with a much larger low end, less gain, but still lots of attack. 

And the KSE pickup in both voicing is brighter than the modern.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Considering how many are reporting how quickly Fishmans drain batteries, Im going to by habbit just put a new battery in every say 2/3 months



They last 300hrs on one battery, vs the 1800 w/ blackouts and 3000 w/ emgs. So uh, yeah, they're a fucking hog.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

cardinal said:


> Sorry, I guess I mean that I’m looking for something like the “passive” mode of the Modern pickup, but with a bit more cut.


 
That would be the Will Adler set. Its Voice 1 is exactly what you describe.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Also my experience with the Moderns is the complete opposite of how you're describing.

V1 is EXTREMELY midrangey, not a lot of bass, and a rolled off high end with some string attack
V2 Is super scooped, lots of low end/low mid growl, and a very present high mid/high end pick attack

In my experience, the V2 of the Classics remind me of V2 of the Moderns, just with more mids and growl and less extreme low end.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also my experience with the Moderns is the complete opposite of how you're describing.
> 
> V1 is EXTREMELY midrangey, not a lot of bass, and a rolled off high end with some string attack
> V2 Is super scooped, lots of low end/low mid growl, and a very present high mid/high end pick attack
> 
> In my experience, the V2 of the Classics remind me of V2 of the Moderns, just with more mids and growl and less extreme low end.


your description pretty much mirrors my thoughts on V1/V2 of the moderns. 
V2 of the moderns is hands down my favorite, V1 is just too clanky and thin sounding for a lot of my riffs.


----------



## lewis

Is there a way to access V2 permanently using EMG quick connect stuff?
I have everything setup atm stuck in V1 on the moderns. (No push/pull because i went full emg solderless)

Is it as simple as plug in something different on the back of the pickups or something?


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They last 300hrs on one battery, vs the 1800 w/ blackouts and 3000 w/ emgs. So uh, yeah, they're a fucking hog.


Jesus christ thats nasty haha


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> Is there a way to access V2 permanently using EMG quick connect stuff?
> I have everything setup atm stuck in V1 on the moderns. (No push/pull because i went full emg solderless)
> 
> Is it as simple as plug in something different on the back of the pickups or something?



Use the jumper. Little black thing that came with wiring.


----------



## cardinal

Thanks guys!



Flappydoodle said:


> KSE set?
> 
> Voice 2 (passive voice) is like the modern, but with a much larger low end, less gain, but still lots of attack.
> 
> And the KSE pickup in both voicing is brighter than the modern.





MASS DEFECT said:


> That would be the Will Adler set. Its Voice 1 is exactly what you describe.



Sorry, I need an 8-string set. 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also my experience with the Moderns is the complete opposite of how you're describing.
> 
> V1 is EXTREMELY midrangey, not a lot of bass, and a rolled off high end with some string attack
> V2 Is super scooped, lots of low end/low mid growl, and a very present high mid/high end pick attack
> 
> In my experience, the V2 of the Classics remind me of V2 of the Moderns, just with more mids and growl and less extreme low end.





KnightBrolaire said:


> your description pretty much mirrors my thoughts on V1/V2 of the moderns.
> V2 of the moderns is hands down my favorite, V1 is just too clanky and thin sounding for a lot of my riffs.



Maybe I’ve got them backwards? They came with the guitar. With the knob pulled up, the voicing is thick and smooth; with the knob down is edgier and I guess clanky. Ideally one of the other sets offers something in the middle?


----------



## diagrammatiks

The Moreno I play the Tosins the more I like them. I usually hate super bright pickups but these are so clear and good. 

I want to get another set more my other Strandberg. I kind of want to go with the classics.

I’m looking over this thread and the Fishman site. Did the original covered classics not have a single coil mode? The classic information they have posted now says that the current covered classics have a single coil mode. 

Is it the same voicing as the open core classics or is it different. Can’t make heads or tails of the Fishman website information.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> Use the jumper. Little black thing that came with wiring.


? so how does that work and where do I plug it?


----------



## NoodleFace

On the underside of the pickup there's a bunch of pins. You can jump two together for voice2/single coil/etc. Use this as reference

https://goo.gl/images/2hRGF3

Look at J2 and you can see two pins with a lane that shows what you should jump for each. 

*NOt sure which pickup you have or if the back looks the same.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> ? so how does that work and where do I plug it?



Basically, you put the jumper over the 2 pins you want always on. For example, on one of my guitars with moderns, I decided I wanted the V1 gain reduction always on. I put the jumper on those two pins for V1 gain in the back. In connected them both (sending it to ground), and became the same as a switch being flipped always on for V1 gain reduction. I don't have a picture handy, or I would send that.

EDIT: See above, beat me to it.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Has anyone seen a classic bridge with these connections? 

Fishman scrubs old revision documents from their website. 

I’m wondering if these can be tapped and if they sound differently then the newer ones.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Never mind figured it out. It’s the same revision as the modern wiring.


----------



## lewis

So jumper cable plugged in to voice 2 and other end solder to ground?
Seems easy if so.
Nice


----------



## diagrammatiks

To anyone holding out for the open core classics for the voice 3. Fishman replies to my email and says that the voice 3 of the open coil is the same as the split from the old covered classics. 

Think the km has a different voicing tho.


----------



## NoodleFace

lewis said:


> So jumper cable plugged in to voice 2 and other end solder to ground?
> Seems easy if so.
> Nice


What do you mean by 'other end'?

You wouldn't do any additional soldering. The jumper is just completing a circuit


----------



## bmth4111

Does any one experience a sitarish sound from these pickups on the unwound high strings?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

bmth4111 said:


> Does any one experience a sitarish sound from these pickups on the unwound high strings?



Not me and I have 3 guitars with Fishman sets


----------



## Avedas

Are the Tosin set only soapbar sized? Or can they be used to replace passives as well (on a 7 string straight scale)?


----------



## Avedas

I found the tabbed size ones that should drop in but nobody is selling them, so I guess that plan is dead.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Avedas said:


> I found the tabbed size ones that should drop in but nobody is selling them, so I guess that plan is dead.



Yeah, pretty much but there's a few places. I have not found one that ships to me in the US yet but you could always use a trustworthy proxy.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/fishman_fluence_tosin_abasi_set_7_bn.htm


----------



## Avedas

LeviathanKiller said:


> Yeah, pretty much but there's a few places. I have not found one that ships to me in the US yet but you could always use a trustworthy proxy.
> 
> https://www.thomannmusic.com/fishman_fluence_tosin_abasi_set_7_bn.htm


I saw the ones on Thomann but I don't think I could ever justify 50 EUR shipping to Japan for a set of pickups


----------



## lewis

No matter how i change EQ, live going direct, these moderns always translate as sounding kind of thin.

Last night i had mids nearly cranked, bass full and depth just over noon (ax8 - depth is like resonance) and it still sounded scooped/thin lacking body.

Anyone else have this issue? They seen like a good recording pickup but live they dont punch you in the face like other pups do.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> No matter how i change EQ, live going direct, these moderns always translate as sounding kind of thin.
> 
> Last night i had mids nearly cranked, bass full and depth just over noon (ax8 - depth is like resonance) and it still sounded scooped/thin lacking body.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue? They seen like a good recording pickup but live they dont punch you in the face like other pups do.


nope, i find v2 to be nice and chunky, even through a tighter amp like my mk3 or revv


----------



## LeviathanKiller

lewis said:


> No matter how i change EQ, live going direct, these moderns always translate as sounding kind of thin.
> 
> Last night i had mids nearly cranked, bass full and depth just over noon (ax8 - depth is like resonance) and it still sounded scooped/thin lacking body.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue? They seen like a good recording pickup but live they dont punch you in the face like other pups do.



You have the Modern set, right?

Yes, I have the same issue with the Moderns (and did with the Tosin set too). Sounds good layered up/in-a-mix but pretty thin on its own. That's why I'm switching mine out.

Keith Merrow set is completely different imo. Much more passive like.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> nope, i find v2 to be nice and chunky, even through a tighter amp like my mk3 or revv



yeah but Im stuck using V1 because no way could I get so much soldering done on a single pot install. Is ridiculous so went EMG solderless set and for the time being, dont have the solderless push/pull pot they do to activate voice 2 so



LeviathanKiller said:


> You have the Modern set, right?
> 
> Yes, I have the same issue with the Moderns (and did with the Tosin set too). Sounds good layered up/in-a-mix but pretty thin on its own. That's why I'm switching mine out.
> 
> Keith Merrow set is completely different imo. Much more passive like.



its abit crazy really. I feel like the moderns would only work and balance out really well in a guitar tuned really low. Like in 8 strings tuned Drop E and lower, they probably shine but in higher tunings (like our drop Ab) its not low enough for them and they just seem really thin live.

Im going to keep them in that guitar for the studio shit we spoke about, but Im going to finish up several other guitars including my Xiphos project, and not go Fishman in those for live. I need a different animal and Im going to stick to what I know cuts and sounds powerful/ballsy live - which is the offerings from EMG ive used in the past.


----------



## lewis

the modern V1 ALMOST has a slight Wah thing going on with it imo. Its abit odd. Cool pickups but I dont think worthy of all this major hype they are getting/


----------



## KnightBrolaire

>doesn't use any of the features that make fishmans good/unique compared to other actives
>notworththehype.jpg
lmaoooooo


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> >doesn't use any of the features that make fishmans good/unique compared to other actives
> >notworththehype.jpg
> lmaoooooo


what? im talking strictly comparing the active voice against the other pickups everyone slates religiously, and in a like for like comparison, no I dont get the hype.

whats wrong with that statement?
I mean if the hype is "well they do more than one sound" so? we all have more than 1 guitar which all sound different anyway so whats the point?
EDIT:
And "doesnt use any of the features" would include not even using V1....you think I dont know how to plug a cable in and hear them or something?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

lewis said:


> yeah but Im stuck using V1 because no way could I get so much soldering done on a single pot install. Is ridiculous so went EMG solderless set and for the time being, dont have the solderless push/pull pot they do to activate voice 2 so
> 
> its abit crazy really. I feel like the moderns would only work and balance out really well in a guitar tuned really low. Like in 8 strings tuned Drop E and lower, they probably shine but in higher tunings (like our drop Ab) its not low enough for them and they just seem really thin live.
> 
> Im going to keep them in that guitar for the studio shit we spoke about, but Im going to finish up several other guitars including my Xiphos project, and not go Fishman in those for live. I need a different animal and Im going to stick to what I know cuts and sounds powerful/ballsy live - which is the offerings from EMG ive used in the past.



For me, Voice 2 was both better and worse at the same time. It was more passive sounding and ballsy but it was also scooped a bit. On top of that, it wasn't too far from a set of passives but those passives are less scooped so I may as well just replace them with that passive set.

To be fair though, I thought the EMG 57/66 set I had was horrible. I would definitely take the Fishman Modern set over that set or the 81/60.



lewis said:


> the modern V1 ALMOST has a slight Wah thing going on with it imo. Its abit odd. Cool pickups but I dont think worthy of all this major hype they are getting/



Agreed on the wah thing.

They do have aspects about them that deserve the hype. The technology, clarity, and ability to have multiple voicings is really remarkable. But it's not something that makes what's already out there inferior. I still prefer my passive sets most of the time.



KnightBrolaire said:


> >doesn't use any of the features that make fishmans good/unique compared to other actives
> >notworththehype.jpg
> lmaoooooo



_Any _of the features? He's using voice 1 which is 50% of what it offers. It's not like he HAS to use voice 2 in order to say he doesn't like it or isn't impressed. There's no point in owning a 2-voice pickup if you hate one of the voices UNLESS the one voice you do like is just end-all-be-all.


----------



## lewis

@LeviathanKiller exactly! well said.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> For me, Voice 2 was both better and worse at the same time. It was more passive sounding and ballsy but it was also scooped a bit. On top of that, it wasn't too far from a set of passives but those passives are less scooped so I may as well just replace them with that passive set.
> 
> To be fair though, I thought the EMG 57/66 set I had was horrible. I would definitely take the Fishman Modern set over that set or the 81/60.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed on the wah thing.
> 
> They do have aspects about them that deserve the hype. The technology, clarity, and ability to have multiple voicings is really remarkable. But it's not something that makes what's already out there inferior. I still prefer my passive sets most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> _Any _of the features? He's using voice 1 which is 50% of what it offers. It's not like he HAS to use voice 2 in order to say he doesn't like it or isn't impressed. There's no point in owning a 2-voice pickup if you hate one of the voices UNLESS the one voice you do like is just end-all-be-all.


He's not using the coil splits or V2, so it's more like he's only getting 25% of what the pickup is capable of (or less if you want to include the middle positions).
I find it stupid to try and offer opinions on a pickup if you haven't at least utilized all it can offer, which is what I'm getting at. He hasn't even used the other options and he's already made up his mind.


lewis said:


> what? im talking strictly comparing the active voice against the other pickups everyone slates religiously, and in a like for like comparison, no I dont get the hype.
> 
> whats wrong with that statement?
> I mean if the hype is "well they do more than one sound" so? we all have more than 1 guitar which all sound different anyway so whats the point?
> EDIT:
> And "doesnt use any of the features" would include not even using V1....you think I dont know how to plug a cable in and hear them or something?


If that's the case then specify that. Speaking as someone that was completely lukewarm (at best) on actives for years, the fishmans are the only ones that do a pretty good job of approximating the options that passives can do.
For guys that actually like actives (like steph carpenter, etc) the option to have more versatility than emgs could offer was obviously a pretty big factor (among others). Look at the mass exodus of longtime emg players ffs


----------



## Strobe

LeviathanKiller said:


> You have the Modern set, right?
> 
> Yes, I have the same issue with the Moderns (and did with the Tosin set too). Sounds good layered up/in-a-mix but pretty thin on its own. That's why I'm switching mine out.
> 
> Keith Merrow set is completely different imo. Much more passive like.



Weird. I like the moderns specifically because they are thicker sounding than EMG's to me - especially in the low mids. I actually thought of the 81 being a bit tighter, but also thinner. I figure everyone's ears probably work a bit differently and emphasize different frequencies, so I believe we are both hearing what we are hearing.

The cocked wah thing you and Lewis bring up - I do hear that in V1 for sure. That's often a good thing for leads, but I do not always want it, which is why it's nice to have V2 available. It does seem to go away a bit with down-tuning, and with the V1 gain jumper on (i.e. cutting 6dB).

The Tosin set is almost Tone Zone thick in my SG - real surprised to hear that sounds thin in V1 especially.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> He's not using the coil splits or V2, so it's more like he's only getting 25% of what the pickup is capable of (or less if you want to include the middle positions).
> I find it stupid to try and offer opinions on a pickup if you haven't at least utilized all it can offer, which is what I'm getting at. He hasn't even used the other options and he's already made up his mind.
> 
> If that's the case then specify that. Speaking as someone that was completely lukewarm (at best) on actives for years, the fishmans are the only ones that do a pretty good job of approximating the options that passives can do.
> For guys that actually like actives (like steph carpenter, etc) the option to have more versatility than emgs could offer was obviously a pretty big factor (among others). Look at the mass exodus of longtime emg players ffs



ok mate. Its just discussion and opinions. No need to get quite angry about it haha
after all its my guitar and tone not yours? haha


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> ok mate. Its just discussion and opinions. No need to get quite angry about it haha
> after all its my guitar and tone not yours? haha


angry? I'm not angry, merely stating the fact that a lot of longtime emg players left specifically because the fishmans had more options/better clarity/whatever else they claimed. You're basically doing the guitar equivalent of sawing off your leg and then complaining about how you can't walk now. It's not like it's difficult to swap the jumper over to v2, or like it's difficult to even solder but you deliberately chose to make things harder for yourself by trying to jury rig the fishmans with emg parts.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> angry? I'm not angry, merely stating the fact that a lot of longtime emg players left specifically because the fishmans had more options/better clarity/whatever else they claimed. You're basically doing the guitar equivalent of sawing off your leg and then complaining about how you can't walk now. It's not like it's difficult to swap the jumper over to v2, or like it's difficult to even solder but you deliberately *chose to make things harder for yourself by trying to jury rig the fishmans with emg parts*.


yes because plugging in parts is way harder than soldering?...oh wait?

and you are speaking like it was some sort of bodge job using them? they work perfect with the Fishmans so


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> He's not using the coil splits or V2, so it's more like he's only getting 25% of what the pickup is capable of (or less if you want to include the middle positions).
> I find it stupid to try and offer opinions on a pickup if you haven't at least utilized all it can offer, which is what I'm getting at. He hasn't even used the other options and he's already made up his mind.
> 
> If that's the case then specify that. Speaking as someone that was completely lukewarm (at best) on actives for years, the fishmans are the only ones that do a pretty good job of approximating the options that passives can do.
> For guys that actually like actives (like steph carpenter, etc) the option to have more versatility than emgs could offer was obviously a pretty big factor (among others). Look at the mass exodus of longtime emg players ffs



Yeah kinda, but a huge majority of people never coil split their pickups period. I don't think it's stupid to make a call after testing the main thing you would use. For some people, that is just the active voicing. For even more people, that is just voice 1 and 2 without ever using coil split options.

Like I somewhat stated though, Fishman actives are by far more desirable to me than any of the EMGs I've played and they edge out past the Blackouts I had too.

I agree with @KnightBrolaire that voice 2 needs to be tested if it's really that easy to swap over to it. I think you, @lewis, will find that voice thicker and better for rhythm probably.


----------



## lewis

LeviathanKiller said:


> Yeah kinda, but a huge majority of people never coil split their pickups period. I don't think it's stupid to make a call after testing the main thing you would use. For some people, that is just the active voicing. For even more people, that is just voice 1 and 2 without ever using coil split options.
> 
> Like I somewhat stated though, Fishman actives are by far more desirable to me than any of the EMGs I've played and they edge out past the Blackouts I had too.
> 
> I agree with @KnightBrolaire that voice 2 needs to be tested if it's really that easy to swap over to it. I think you, @lewis, will find that voice thicker and better for rhythm probably.


yeah I will try it.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Lots of mixed opinions on the moderns. Glad I grabbed a classic set as my other set. 

I also kind of agree with knightbro. Any single voicing on the fluences might not be perfect for you. But the biggest selling point is the versatility. 5 way with a push pull or three way with 2 push pulls is the way to go on these things.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> Yeah kinda, but a huge majority of people never coil split their pickups period. I don't think it's stupid to make a call after testing the main thing you would use. For some people, that is just the active voicing. For even more people, that is just voice 1 and 2 without ever using coil split options.
> 
> Like I somewhat stated though, Fishman actives are by far more desirable to me than any of the EMGs I've played and they edge out past the Blackouts I had too.
> 
> I agree with @KnightBrolaire that voice 2 needs to be tested if it's really that easy to swap over to it. I think you, @lewis, will find that voice thicker and better for rhythm probably.


It might just be me since I like to be very thorough when testing gear, since initial impressions aren't always strong and gear often takes time to dial in. I absolutely hated my mesa F100 until I spent a lot of time dialing in a sound that I liked and figuring out exactly where the sweet spots of the knobs were. The same thing happened to me with V1 of the moderns, I didn't like it at first as it felt too harsh and djenty for my tastes, but then I began to like it for certain tunings/riffs as I spent more and more time with it. Point being, everybody should just shut the hell up until they actually give gear a more than fair shake, myself included.

the easiest option is to try v2 as it definitely rectifies that issue ime.


lewis said:


> yes because plugging in parts is way harder than soldering?...oh wait?
> 
> and you are speaking like it was some sort of bodge job using them? they work perfect with the Fishmans so


That's not what I was getting at, by using the emg parts you lose access to the multiple voicings you can access with the push pull or the coil split options. If all you wanted was v1 then bully for you, but it's just stupid to not at least give v2 and the coil splits a chance at some point. It's one thing if the inherent voicing of V1 isn't your thing (it's not my preference by a long shot) but it's another to complain about gear without thoroughly exhausting all the sounds/options it has to offer.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> It might just be me since I like to be very thorough when testing gear, since initial impressions aren't always strong and gear often takes time to dial in. I absolutely hated my mesa F100 until I spent a lot of time dialing in a sound that I liked and figuring out exactly where the sweet spots of the knobs were. The same thing happened to me with V1 of the moderns, I didn't like it at first as it felt too harsh and djenty for my tastes, but then I began to like it for certain tunings/riffs as I spent more and more time with it. Point being, everybody should just shut the hell up until they actually give gear a more than fair shake, myself included.
> 
> the easiest option is to try v2 as it definitely rectifies that issue ime.
> 
> That's not what I was getting at, by using the emg parts you lose access to the multiple voicings you can access with the push pull or the coil split options. If all you wanted was v1 then bully for you, but it's just stupid to not at least give v2 and the coil splits a chance at some point. It's one thing if the inherent voicing of V1 isn't your thing (it's not my preference by a long shot) but it's another to complain about gear without thoroughly exhausting all the sounds/options it has to offer.



Yeah thats fair enough. Also, EMG do a solderless push/pull that I was going to add to this. Having both options was always the plan and i never told myself I had written off V2 without trying it or anything if thats what you thought I was getting at. What happened was I had a show about 3 days away from when I tried soldering a single volume pot setup with these Fishmans, and in the struggle, abandoned trying to solder and use the Solderless stuff just to get them in the guitar super quick. It was my first attempt at soldering then and it just was too many solder points for 1 pot for my in experience. I legit had no other guitar options at that stage either due to basically all my Arsenal being unfinished projects and in bits - so needed something to give me sound for the show as quick as humanly possible.

in comes the EMG solderless stuff.
And i havent said I hate the Fishmans, or im going to ditch them, or anything like that. I like them alot as I said before - but more for studio situations on high gain tones than live because of that thinness that was discussed. And in that comparison i feel like EMGs cut better live. Thats just my opinion using my own ears so.

I feel like something like an 81X for live for my style is the go-to, but the modern is the clear winner in a recording situation - is my take on the situation.

I will try V2 if its a simple switching of a plug or something on quick connect stuff?


----------



## Gmork

NOT IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN! now you two just stop it. Make up now or no video games and chips for either or you!

Now lets just get along and talk about how thick and meaty the tosins are ok?......... OK!?!???? lol


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Gmork said:


> NOT IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN! now you two just stop it. Make up now or no video games and chips for either or you!
> 
> Now lets just get along and talk about how thick and meaty the tosins are ok?......... OK!?!???? lol



Thick and meaty? My experience was opposite actually. lol

HERE WE GO...


----------



## drummerboy7816

So I just picked up a PRS SVN used on guitar center that came with Fishman Moderns with the rechargeable battery! I'm loving the tone I'm getting on Voice 2. Voice 1 is great too for that extra added aggression and attack BUT, I have this crazy hum/buzz upon switching to in on both the neck and bridge pickups (middle position is goes away, but not sure if middle position the push/pull changes anything). I have to crank my noise gate to a unplayable level to make it stop while I'm not even playing. Any advise appreciated!!

Couple more notes:
- When I angle the guitar perfectly 90 degrees to the floor sometimes the buzz stops.. then when I tilt it again the buzz comes back in..
- Tried it on my axe fx 2 as well as a mini practice amp in separate room to rule out ground hum issue, but nothing changed.


----------



## diagrammatiks

drummerboy7816 said:


> So I just picked up a PRS SVN used on guitar center that came with Fishman Moderns with the rechargeable battery! I'm loving the tone I'm getting on Voice 2. Voice 1 is great too for that extra added aggression and attack BUT, I have this crazy hum/buzz upon switching to in on both the neck and bridge pickups (middle position is goes away, but not sure if middle position the push/pull changes anything). I have to crank my noise gate to a unplayable level to make it stop while I'm not even playing. Any advise appreciated!!
> 
> Couple more notes:
> - When I angle the guitar perfectly 90 degrees to the floor sometimes the buzz stops.. then when I tilt it again the buzz comes back in..
> - Tried it on my axe fx 2 as well as a mini practice amp in separate room to rule out ground hum issue, but nothing changed.



Sounds like something is not grounded correctly in the switching. It shouldn’t do that. You should only have hum when you coil split them.


----------



## Quiet Coil

drummerboy7816 said:


> I have this crazy hum/buzz upon switching to in on both the neck and bridge pickups (middle position is goes away, but not sure if middle position the push/pull changes anything)...
> 
> When I angle the guitar perfectly 90 degrees to the floor sometimes the buzz stops.. then when I tilt it again the buzz comes back in..



Does “Voice 1” sound kinda single coil-ish? Because everything you’re describing makes me thing coil split is engaged. That and it doesn’t make sense to me that you’d have a grounding issue on one voice but not with the other (though I suppose this is possible).


----------



## drummerboy7816

Yes! That’s how would describe it. “Voice 1”, now I’m questioning what it really is, does sound like single coil.. thinner, brighter with more “twang” and attack. 

Where in the wiring process would I change this so that push-pull would engage full humbucker voice 1 and 2? I don’t mind soldering and all that, but am not familiar with all the wire routing for this.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

drummerboy7816 said:


> Yes! That’s how would describe it. “Voice 1”, now I’m questioning what it really is, does sound like single coil.. thinner, brighter with more “twang” and attack.
> 
> Where in the wiring process would I change this so that push-pull would engage full humbucker voice 1 and 2? I don’t mind soldering and all that, but am not familiar with all the wire routing for this.


The voicing is (normally) connected through the green/orange wires on the quick connect harness on the pickup side. Splitting on the moderns involves having wires soldered to pads on the back of the pickups.

All you'd need to do is solder the green/orange wires to the push pull, granted if they're still there and aren't actually attached to another switch or something. (I assume they aren't, but always safe to check anyway, since that guitar normally has 2 pots)


----------



## drummerboy7816

Man you guys are good! Pulled out the pickups and indeed there were 2 wires soldered to the coil into the push pull. 

The green & orange wires are currently soldered to the other non push-pull pot, what would that do exactly? I assume I would just have to disconnect them from that pot, disconnect the coil split wires from the the p/p pot, the reconnect the green/orange wires to the p/p pot?


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

drummerboy7816 said:


> Man you guys are good! Pulled out the pickups and indeed there were 2 wires soldered to the coil into the push pull.
> 
> The green & orange wires are currently soldered to the other non push-pull pot, what would that do exactly? I assume I would just have to disconnect them from that pot, disconnect the coil split wires from the the p/p pot, the reconnect the green/orange wires to the p/p pot?


Right now, I'm pretty sure they are wired to only have voice 2 on all the time. But swapping the wires on the p/p would let you use both voices, yes. You'd just need another p/p for if you wanted to use splits too.


----------



## lewis

Right got some time tomorrow.

Can someone tell me exactly what i need to do to change my permanent voice 1 moderns using emg solderless stuff, to being permanent voice 2 instead?

Is it as simple as moving the solderless plugs around on the back of each pickup or something?


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> Right got some time tomorrow.
> 
> Can someone tell me exactly what i need to do to change my permanent voice 1 moderns using emg solderless stuff, to being permanent voice 2 instead?
> 
> Is it as simple as moving the solderless plugs around on the back of each pickup or something?



Take Jumper. Put jumper on two pins that engage voice two. It's essentially connecting the two pins electrically. That's it.


----------



## NoodleFace

Strobe said:


> Take Jumper. Put jumper on two pins that engage voice two. It's essentially connecting the two pins electrically. That's it.


Yep, like the pic I posted you just put a jumper to connect the two pins that have the voice you want.


----------



## cardinal

An eBay 15% coupon kicked me into getting a set of Modern 8s. Compared to the BKP Mules that I had, I think this is what I was after. Much less “jangle” on the high strings but a bit thicker in the middle and still clear bass. 

And then there’s the other mode that is thinner, more aggressive, and more saturated sounding which seems to work well for thrash’s stuff. 

I somewhat accidentally ordered a set of EMG 57-8/66-8 too. Will these just plug and play with the Fishman wiring? (The push pull wouldn’t do anything, of course).


----------



## cardinal

Anyone tried the Alnico Modern at the bridge position? I realize this will take about 10 minutes tops to swap and hear for myself, but just curious how it compares to the ceramic Modern


----------



## Strobe

cardinal said:


> Anyone tried the Alnico Modern at the bridge position? I realize this will take about 10 minutes tops to swap and hear for myself, but just curious how it compares to the ceramic Modern



Yeah. I have it in my single pickup Jackson RR24M. It's not a huge difference. Mostly the mid character changes a little bit in voice 1. A little more low mids a little less cocked wah upper mid to the voice. It's not drastically different. I think I like the ceramic better in the bridge, but this felt like a better fit for the characteristics of this guitar. It's quite bright and I wanted the slightly darker more low mid tone in it.

I also like the cleans better on V2 of the alnico more, which is part of why I put it in this guitar. Worth mentioning, this guitar is permanently set up in drop C, so all my experience with this in the bridge is only in that tuning and this guitar. I have two others with the modern (a 6 and a 7) and both have the ceramic in the bridge and the alnico in the neck.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

cardinal said:


> Anyone tried the Alnico Modern at the bridge position? I realize this will take about 10 minutes tops to swap and hear for myself, but just curious how it compares to the ceramic Modern



I still need to do this before I get rid of my sets! dang, I keep forgetting
I might today or tomorrow if I have the time and I will let you know how they compare since I have another guitar with them in the normal configuration.


----------



## lewis

ok so Ive looked everywhere and cant find any of the extra stuff that came with the Fishmans so christ knows what Ive done with the pots and more importantly the jumper cable

what did it look like and can I find something the same on ebay or something?


----------



## diagrammatiks

You could learn how to solder. 
Or just wrap a piece of bare wire around the two posts.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> ok so Ive looked everywhere and cant find any of the extra stuff that came with the Fishmans so christ knows what Ive done with the pots and more importantly the jumper cable
> 
> what did it look like and can I find something the same on ebay or something?



They are little square black pieces of plastic about the size of a tic tac. If you look inside, there is a piece of metal that connects the two pins as you push it over the jumpers. It's like a short small version of the 2 pin quick connect ends you put over the pins.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> They are little square black pieces of plastic about the size of a tic tac. If you look inside, there is a piece of metal that connects the two pins as you push it over the jumpers. It's like a short small version of the 2 pin quick connect ends you put over the pins.


shit. No idea if I still have that.

Can they be acquired from anywhere? Are they like normal parts found by people who make like PCBs and do soldering, or is this a unique thing to Fishman?


----------



## diagrammatiks

lewis said:


> shit. No idea if I still have that.
> 
> Can they be acquired from anywhere? Are they like normal parts found by people who make like PCBs and do soldering, or is this a unique thing to Fishman?



It’s just a jumper. Any jumper will do. Fishman will probably sell you some as well. 

It’s electronics man. You can turn a Chinese knockoff guitar into a blinged out Chinese knock off guitar filled with USA parts. You can figure out how to bridge with contacts with a piece of wire and electrical tape.

Just remember if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> shit. No idea if I still have that.
> 
> Can they be acquired from anywhere? Are they like normal parts found by people who make like PCBs and do soldering, or is this a unique thing to Fishman?



They look like this. They are cheap cheap cheap. $0.30 a piece here in the US.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0127QLN9G/?tag=sevenstringorg-20

I would contact Fishman to make sure you get the correct ones. They will sell them. They may send them for free.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> They look like this. They are cheap cheap cheap. $0.30 a piece here in the US.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0127QLN9G/?tag=sevenstringorg-20
> 
> I would contact Fishman to make sure you get the correct ones. They will sell them. They may send them for free.


Thank you!

ive contacted them. Lets see what they say


----------



## NoodleFace

You might even have some in shitty old electronics sitting around like remote controls or on old motherboards


----------



## cardinal

For what it’s worth I didn’t have the chance to swap the Alnico Modern to the bridge, but I did try swapping the Ceramic Modern for an EMG 57-8. 

The Fishman plug worked just fine. 

The 57-8 seemed similar to the Ceramic Modern Voice 2, but the EMG was a bit thinner and a bit more hairy or wooly. The Ceramic Modern was a bit thicker and smoother. 

I stuck the Fishman back in there, as I was much happier with it. 

Still need to see if I’d like the Alnico at the bridge. That just requires unplugging two things...


----------



## cardinal

Alright, tried the Modern Alnico 8 at the bridge position.

It’s definitely lower output. It’s not driving the amp as hard. “Passive” mode sounds single-coil like with a snappy and twangy, somewhat hollow midrange “cluck,” which is very cool IMHO and explains why I liked it so much in the neck.

“Active” mode is pretty mild. It’s comparable to the Ceramic’s passive mode in voicing and output IMHO. Compared to that, the Alnico is brighter in some ways but also a bit more “full”. Basically, it’s what I wanted the Ceramic “Passive” mode to sound like. Not as clinically smooth on top and not as surgically tight in the mids and lows.

The catch is that if you liked the really hot and cutting “Active” Ceramic mode, the Alnico gets you nowhere close IMHO.

That’s fine for me, but leaves me having now to buy another Alnico pickup  I put an EMG 66-8 in there for now as a place holder, and that thing is nowhere near as sweet or dynamic as either Fluence mode.


----------



## cardinal

OK, another question for you Fishman experts:

Do any of the 8-string open-core options (neck, bridge, Merrow) sound like the Modern Alnico?

I've come to REALLY like the Alnico Modern 8 at both positions of my current 8-string. I have two more 8-strings that supposedly will be completed within the coming month or two, and both use passive-sized pickups. So the Modern 8 is a no-go, since I am definitely not routing these guitars for that pickup.

So the only options would be one of the Open Core if I try to stick with Fishmans. From the specs of the frequency peaks, none of them are similar to the Modern Alnico, which is disappointing...


----------



## Strobe

cardinal said:


> OK, another question for you Fishman experts:
> 
> Do any of the 8-string open-core options (neck, bridge, Merrow) sound like the Modern Alnico?
> 
> I've come to REALLY like the Alnico Modern 8 at both positions of my current 8-string. I have two more 8-strings that supposedly will be completed within the coming month or two, and both use passive-sized pickups. So the Modern 8 is a no-go, since I am definitely not routing these guitars for that pickup.
> 
> So the only options would be one of the Open Core if I try to stick with Fishmans. From the specs of the frequency peaks, none of them are similar to the Modern Alnico, which is disappointing...



The only ones with the open core aesthetic as of this writing are the classics and the Merrows. Both of them sound more similar to each other than they do to the modern. The closest is V1 of the Merrows having some similarities to V2 of the Modern Ceramic... but only a little.

Most of their pickups are variations on the modern set. The Merrow is a variation on the classic set.


----------



## cardinal

Strobe said:


> The only ones with the open core aesthetic as of this writing are the classics and the Merrows. Both of them sound more similar to each other than they do to the modern. The closest is V1 of the Merrows having some similarities to V2 of the Modern Ceramic... but only a little.
> 
> Most of their pickups are variations on the modern set. The Merrow is a variation on the classic set.



Thanks. The good news is that the descriptions of the Open Cores are generally what I would like (essentially beefy PAF types). But there’s obviously some variables there. The EMG 57 supposedly is a beefed up PAF type thing and doesn’t sound nearly as good to me as the Modern Alnico. But the Duncan Custom (totally different, I know) also is billed as a beefy PAF and I love that one. 

Guess I’ll just have to try them all. Ugh. These new guitars are coming with either a set of Dimarzio PAF 8 or Duncan Sentient 8s (which I know are typically used at the neck, but I thought I’d try them at the bridge too). 

Hopefully they’ll work out fine, but I’m expecting to want more oomph out of them at this point. (Problem when guitars take this long to build. My amp changes and now all my pickups need to change).


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I really dig the alnico Modern in the bridge so far. It's the best I've heard the Modern set sound out of all of the possible voicings and such. I think I put my clip on wrong though (although it was intentional technically) so now the push/pull just toggles the gain it seems. haha


----------



## cardinal

LeviathanKiller said:


> I really dig the alnico Modern in the bridge so far. It's the best I've heard the Modern set sound out of all of the possible voicings and such. I think I put my clip on wrong though (although it was intentional technically) so now the push/pull just toggles the gain it seems. haha



I absolutely love it. The active mode is exactly what I wanted from a humbucker: thick mid range, clear bass, and nice treble bite without extending too far high or low. 

And the passive mode sounds IMHO like a badass Tele tone, which was a pleasant surprise


----------



## op1e

I'm gonna switch my Alnico into the bridge of my Rgd 7421. Bridge is just too hot and too thin. And I love 81's. So I pull up and it's too fat and low output. If Emg made a passive size 81-7tw I'd buy it and kiss it's biscuits.


----------



## DropTheSun

Here is a quick high gain comparison between Fishman Fluence Modern 7 and Fishman Fluence Tosin Abasi 8 pickups.

https://soundcloud.com/dead-queens/fishman-fluence-modern-vs-fishman-fluence-tosin-abasi


----------



## Tisca

This is share worthy:
Fishys and EMGs


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The EMG 81, Classics, and 57s sounded the best to me.


----------



## Tisca

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The EMG 81, Classics, and 57s sounded the best to me.


Jari's own conclusion at 15:09 is winners were 57 and 81.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jesus he dialed in all the treble. every pickup sounds super clanky and djenty. I did like the low end thump of the 57 and classics though.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

KnightBrolaire said:


> jesus he dialed in all the treble. every pickup sounds super clanky and djenty.



So much this...i couldn't even make it through the whole video. Overall tone was painful.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> jesus he dialed in all the treble. every pickup sounds super clanky and djenty. I did like the low end thump of the 57 and classics though.





TheShreddinHand said:


> So much this...i couldn't even make it through the whole video. Overall tone was painful.



This also isn't wrong.  I was using laptop speakers at first and thought it sounded thin and harsh. I went grab my proper headphones and it made it sound even MORE thin and harsh. 

But yeah, I wouldn't use the Fluence Classics if your tone is already trebly like this. It's probably one of the brightest pickups I've ever used. I had to take it out of a bolt-on maple-necked guitar because it was getting too harsh and clanky.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Ugggh he even managed to make the 57 sound thin. He said he doesn't like the "cardboard box" mids on the Modern. I think that's what makes the Modern sound a little less compressed than the 81. But yeah, the Modern could use some the 81's lows. Because it can sound all mids when you dont tune your amp to it. 

I wonder how the Modern V2 sounds compared to the 57. I only have the Hetfields to compare with and so far Modern V2 has all the bottom but manages to sound tighter. The Hets have a LOT of low mids.


----------



## crankyrayhanky

I just joined the family. Scored a Caparison with KSE pickups. Reeeeealy digging it. It's a metal machine....so the first tune I write with is not metal, lol. This is a clip with pickups in the middle position "classic" KSE setting. The amp is a cleaner Kemper amp with a Kemper Fuzz dialed in, so it's not the greatest tone test, but it inspired so here it is:

https://soundcloud.com/smile-over-dark/the-end-of-the-ride-4-13-19#t=2:20







I want to try some more of these. Does anyone ever put these Fluences in Wolfgangs/HPs? Might look goofy but sound great. I have an EVH import Stealth I'm looking at, also a newer HP2.
Also have an Epi LP7 Goth that is a contender for a swap. Might consider a Classic set or modern (?) I dig the KSE but want to mix it up on other guitars. 
The hype is real!


----------



## Tisca

Jari's detailed review on fb.
https://www.facebook.com/wintersun/posts/10157186433167402?__tn__=K-R

Too long to quote here.


----------



## angl2k

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> But yeah, I wouldn't use the Fluence Classics if your tone is already trebly like this. It's probably one of the brightest pickups I've ever used. I had to take it out of a bolt-on maple-necked guitar because it was getting too harsh and clanky.



I second that, the classics are really bright, even with the HF tilt option engaged. Not a pickup you can just throw in every guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

angl2k said:


> I second that, the classics are really bright, even with the HF tilt option engaged. Not a pickup you can just throw in every guitar.



Not at all.  You need a dark guitar. 

Jari's making me finally wanna get the 57/66 set..


----------



## lewis

ok so Fishman came through for me and a new pack of Fluence Jumpers arrived (lost my originals)

so now I can finally use Voice 2 on my moderns. These are just the clips NO cables coming out of them. Is it as simple as take one of these & plug it onto the "voice 2" prongs on each pickup?


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> ok so Fishman came through for me and a new pack of Fluence Jumpers arrived (lost my originals)
> 
> so now I can finally use Voice 2 on my moderns. These are just the clips NO cables coming out of them. Is it as simple as take one of these & plug it onto the "voice 2" prongs on each pickup?



Yup. That simple.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> Yup. That simple.


Woah thats so easy haha.
Will do that next restring 

Thanks dude


----------



## Flappydoodle

Anybody else feeling a bit annoyed by the mid frequencies in the Modern Ceramic?

Has that "wah" sound with some mid range characteristic which can't be easily dialled out

I do like how they feel to play, but the EMG81 didn't have that annoying prominent sound


----------



## Metropolis

KnightBrolaire said:


> jesus he dialed in all the treble. every pickup sounds super clanky and djenty. I did like the low end thump of the 57 and classics though.



Jari's tone preference is to get everything sound like a scooped Mesa Boogie TriAxis or Mark IV/V with bumped up highs around 2200 and 6600hz


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Metropolis said:


> Jari's tone preference is to get everything sound like a scooped Mesa Boogie TriAxis or Mark IV/V with bumped up highs around 2200 and 6600hz


man when i run my modern set into my mk3 it's not that trebly, and i tend to run the treble near max. then again i cut a lot of the 6000hz range since it adds fizz


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Flappydoodle said:


> Anybody else feeling a bit annoyed by the mid frequencies in the Modern Ceramic?
> 
> Has that "wah" sound with some mid range characteristic which can't be easily dialled out
> 
> I do like how they feel to play, but the EMG81 didn't have that annoying prominent sound


Jari was pretty accurate with the midrange space of the Moderns. They can be super boxy at times.

I remember when I had my Epi Explorer loaded with EMGs. The The KsEs definitely had a super broad, boxy midrange space that DID make things sound tighter, but also kinda nasally at times. Vs the 81 which had most of it's focus in the center-high mids and more lows so palm mutes had a very satisfying chunk.


----------



## Strobe

Flappydoodle said:


> Anybody else feeling a bit annoyed by the mid frequencies in the Modern Ceramic?
> 
> Has that "wah" sound with some mid range characteristic which can't be easily dialled out
> 
> I do like how they feel to play, but the EMG81 didn't have that annoying prominent sound



Yes and no. A lot of classic pickups have that. The JB has it. Juggernauts have it. It's great for leads and cuts well. It's maybe a little weird in isolation. I think it generally works well in a mix.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Flappydoodle said:


> Anybody else feeling a bit annoyed by the mid frequencies in the Modern Ceramic?
> 
> Has that "wah" sound with some mid range characteristic which can't be easily dialled out
> 
> I do like how they feel to play, but the EMG81 didn't have that annoying prominent sound



Yeah, in some amps like a Recto or a 5150Mk1. I just scoop the mids a bit and it cleans up around that boxy region. With my 5150II it doesn't have that problem.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I can't decide if I like the Keith Merrow set better in my Schecter KM-7 MK-II or MK-III and on top of that I can't decide if I should choose neither and move on OR neither, but put them in my Aristides that has the Modern set currently. So many possible options...

They're bassier but cleaner in the MK-II
They're grittier and a bit meaner in the MK-III
The Aristides has the rechargeable battery pack


----------



## LeviathanKiller

LeviathanKiller said:


> I can't decide if I like the Keith Merrow set better in my Schecter KM-7 MK-II or MK-III and on top of that I can't decide if I should choose neither and move on OR neither, but put them in my Aristides that has the Modern set currently. So many possible options...
> 
> They're bassier but cleaner in the MK-II
> They're grittier and a bit meaner in the MK-III
> The Aristides has the rechargeable battery pack



Update:
I decided that they just aren't that special in the MK-II so I pulled the bridge out and put it in the Aristides.
The Keith Merrow bridge sucks in the Aristides. Seems like that guitar is brighter/midsy-er than the MK-III so the KM set in the Aristides had absolutely no balls really when compared to the MK-III.
The Keith Merrow set is staying in the MK-III only (if I decide to keep it at all after getting my incoming pickup order). I think I'd rather have the single coil voice switch over the battery pack anyway.


----------



## MistaSnowman

Just got a MK-II with the Fishman's and I'm liking them a lot. Now, I have my eyes set on a MK-I but looking to replace the Duncans with another Merrow set. Anybody know if the Merrow set is a drop-in replacement for the covered Duncan set?


----------



## lewis

anyone know if Fishman might finally start selling their rechargeable input jacks?
Because they come across like a bunch of Kochs for not doing so up to this point.....


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> anyone know if Fishman might finally start selling their rechargeable input jacks?
> Because they come across like a bunch of Kochs for not doing so up to this point.....



On the Greg Koch set, the input jack has the spot for the charger to plug into built in. The battery is actually built into the tele control plate. It's not in the jack. It hangs down in an enclosure that also has the 3 way switching and push push button electronics in it.

This works because Teles are super common and have a rout that fits this. Guitars in general have different kinds of input jacks (screw in plugs on many, barrel plugs on Ibanez). They could probably make several types of jacks with the charge port built in, by you would still need to have the battery go some place near the jack. The universal charger they make is definitely more universal - but requires one to drill a hole in the plastic cavity cover - it's more labor intensive, but not hard. The biggest barrier to putting these chargers in a lot of guitars is finding a place to fit the battery pack.


----------



## lewis

Strobe said:


> On the Greg Koch set, the input jack has the spot for the charger to plug into built in. The battery is actually built into the tele control plate. It's not in the jack. It hangs down in an enclosure that also has the 3 way switching and push push button electronics in it.
> 
> This works because Teles are super common and have a rout that fits this. Guitars in general have different kinds of input jacks (screw in plugs on many, barrel plugs on Ibanez). They could probably make several types of jacks with the charge port built in, by you would still need to have the battery go some place near the jack. The universal charger they make is definitely more universal - but requires one to drill a hole in the plastic cavity cover - it's more labor intensive, but not hard. The biggest barrier to putting these chargers in a lot of guitars is finding a place to fit the battery pack.



How did they make it possible on the Keith Merrow signature Shecter's?


----------



## Triple-J

So I bought the Schecter SLS Elite last weekend and I really like the Fishman's haven't gelled 100% with the tones of the bridge yet but the neck was love at first riff as it's great distorted and clean especially in the second mode.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> How did they make it possible on the Keith Merrow signature Shecter's?



I have not opened one up, but I am sure it has a space for the battery pack under the hood. It's almost certainly not a part of the jack. I know about the Koch set because I own it.


----------



## icipher

I had the new Schecter KM7 MK III with his sig fluences and man, really did NOT like that sound. They were so stiff and scratchy, they did not breathe at all. I have bareknuckle Juggernatus in my Kiesel and they are so dynamic and alive sounding with a lot of breath and color in the distortion.

Are all fishman's like this? I ask because the merrow set did not seem like an upgrade over an EMG 81 which makes me ask, what's the point?


----------



## crankyrayhanky

icipher said:


> I had the new Schecter KM7 MK III with his sig fluences and man, really did NOT like that sound. They were so stiff and scratchy, they did not breathe at all. I have bareknuckle Juggernatus in my Kiesel and they are so dynamic and alive sounding with a lot of breath and color in the distortion.
> 
> Are all fishman's like this? I ask because the merrow set did not seem like an upgrade over an EMG 81 which makes me ask, what's the point?


I guess it is wood dependent?
I have Juggs in 2 guitars and LOVE them. One is a basswood body maple neck Peavey HP, one is an all mahogany Guteirrez. What wood is your Kiesel? I may order another one, my current AM7 has Lithiums- I like them but on the next build may try something else. 

I recently got a Caparsion (maple neck, mahog body) with Fishman KSE and reallly dig it. 

I'm all over the map here, trying to find the right combinations!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

icipher said:


> I had the new Schecter KM7 MK III with his sig fluences and man, really did NOT like that sound. They were so stiff and scratchy, they did not breathe at all. I have bareknuckle Juggernatus in my Kiesel and they are so dynamic and alive sounding with a lot of breath and color in the distortion.
> 
> Are all fishman's like this? I ask because the merrow set did not seem like an upgrade over an EMG 81 which makes me ask, what's the point?



I actually really like how they sound in the MK-3. They sound better in it than they do in my MK-2. Meanwhile, I don't like the Juggernauts because of how twangy they are in general and how undefined they are in the lower end.


----------



## icipher

crankyrayhanky said:


> I guess it is wood dependent?
> I have Juggs in 2 guitars and LOVE them. One is a basswood body maple neck Peavey HP, one is an all mahogany Guteirrez. What wood is your Kiesel? I may order another one, my current AM7 has Lithiums- I like them but on the next build may try something else.
> 
> I recently got a Caparsion (maple neck, mahog body) with Fishman KSE and reallly dig it.
> 
> I'm all over the map here, trying to find the right combinations!



My DC7X is Alder and 27inch scale. I run it through a Revv 100P and KSR Orthos. No issues with tightness. 



LeviathanKiller said:


> I actually really like how they sound in the MK-3. They sound better in it than they do in my MK-2. Meanwhile, I don't like the Juggernauts because of how twangy they are in general and how undefined they are in the lower end.



What amp are you using?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

icipher said:


> My DC7X is Alder and 27inch scale. I run it through a Revv 100P and KSR Orthos. No issues with tightness.
> What amp are you using?



I use an Axe-Fx III, Kemper, and Mooer Preamp Live so it varies. I stick to a Diezel or Engl type of sound though usually. I've been using the Das Metal model from the Axe-Fx III most of all for about a year now.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Noob question: I'm about to bring my guitar to a luthier to swap my H-H pickups for Fluence humbuckers. Do these pickups have special requirements in terms of 3-way pickup selector or will any 3-way selector do? (Yeah, I know nothing about guitar electronics... or electronics in general).


----------



## Dayn

Out of curiosity, has anyone picked up the new bass pickups? They don't come in 6-string format unfortunately, but I'm considering them in future for a different bass for super low tunings.



HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Noob question: I'm about to bring my guitar to a luthier to swap my H-H pickups for Fluence humbuckers. Do these pickups have special requirements in terms of 3-way pickup selector or will any 3-way selector do? (Yeah, I know nothing about guitar electronics... or electronics in general).


Have a look on the website and look at the wiring diagrams. If you look for the setup you want, it'll tell you what you need and how to do it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Noob question: I'm about to bring my guitar to a luthier to swap my H-H pickups for Fluence humbuckers. Do these pickups have special requirements in terms of 3-way pickup selector or will any 3-way selector do? (Yeah, I know nothing about guitar electronics... or electronics in general).


either a LP style toggle or fender style 3 way blade switch works with them, doesn't matter.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

KnightBrolaire said:


> either a LP style toggle or fender style 3 way blade switch works with them, doesn't matter.



Thanks, exactly the info I was looking for. Cheers !



Dayn said:


> Have a look on the website and look at the wiring diagrams. If you look for the setup you want, it'll tell you what you need and how to do it.



Unfortunately the PDFs just give the example of a Gibson 3-way switch but don't give any general specs requirements for such a switch (or maybe I didn't look at the good documents).


----------



## cardinal

Anyone compare the Fluence Modern Alnico to the EMG 85?

I'm looking for a passive-sized 8-string pickup, so the Modern Alnico is not an option. The Open Core appear to sound vastly different. Wondering if the EMG 85 is in the ballpark.


----------



## georg_f

Does anybody have/tried a Modern and a Tosin Abasi set?
How does the Split Coil of the Moderns compare to Voice 3 (single coil mode) of the TAs?

Does the TA Ceramic bridge pickup have less of a cocked wah sound than the Modern Ceramic?

thank you


----------



## Strobe

georg_f said:


> Does anybody have/tried a Modern and a Tosin Abasi set?
> How does the Split Coil of the Moderns compare to Voice 3 (single coil mode) of the TAs?
> 
> Does the TA Ceramic bridge pickup have less of a cocked wah sound than the Modern Ceramic?
> 
> thank you



I own both. The split coil of the moderns is definitely less good than the TA set. The Tosin set has a very good stratty sound. It's as good of a voice as voice 1 and voice 2 and feels like they put a lot of work into it. The moderns sound similar to splitting most humbuckers - it's not quite like a real single coil, and it's a little on the thin side. It's not bad, it's just not great. It's OK.

There are a little less upper mids and a little more lower mids on the Tosin set. It reminds me of a Tone Zone in that regard. It feels thicker and perhaps more even.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

georg_f said:


> Does anybody have/tried a Modern and a Tosin Abasi set?
> How does the Split Coil of the Moderns compare to Voice 3 (single coil mode) of the TAs?
> 
> Does the TA Ceramic bridge pickup have less of a cocked wah sound than the Modern Ceramic?
> 
> thank you



I never tried voice 3 of the TA set but the TA set definitely had less of a cocked wah sound, in my opinion. Unfortunately, they were brighter overall (tested in the same guitar) and I couldn't live with that so I sent them back. The guitar I tried them in was a Schecter C-7 SLS Elite. That's a swamp ash body, ebony fingerboard, maple veneer/top guitar.


----------



## georg_f

Strobe said:


> I own both. The split coil of the moderns is definitely less good than the TA set. The Tosin set has a very good stratty sound. It's as good of a voice as voice 1 and voice 2 and feels like they put a lot of work into it. The moderns sound similar to splitting most humbuckers - it's not quite like a real single coil, and it's a little on the thin side. It's not bad, it's just not great. It's OK.
> 
> There are a little less upper mids and a little more lower mids on the Tosin set. It reminds me of a Tone Zone in that regard. It feels thicker and perhaps more even.



awesome, thanks a lot
I think I'll need to get the TA set then. This sounds very promising.



LeviathanKiller said:


> I never tried voice 3 of the TA set but the TA set definitely had less of a cocked wah sound, in my opinion. Unfortunately, they were brighter overall (tested in the same guitar) and I couldn't live with that so I sent them back. The guitar I tried them in was a Schecter C-7 SLS Elite. That's a swamp ash body, ebony fingerboard, maple veneer/top guitar.



I see. Tosin's demos also sound rather clear and like a fully produced clean tone.

However, here's an uncommon thought among metal guitar players: We are used to having the tone knob always on 10. But if a guitar is too bright, we might as well leave the tone e.g. at 7 and consider that the "normal" setting. Or maybe have a fixed trim pot that always cut some treble in the electronics cavity.

E.g. some telecaster players have their tone knob at 5 for their "normal" sound, and turn up the treble only when necessary.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Strobe said:


> I own both. The split coil of the moderns is definitely less good than the TA set. The Tosin set has a very good stratty sound. It's as good of a voice as voice 1 and voice 2 and feels like they put a lot of work into it. The moderns sound similar to splitting most humbuckers - it's not quite like a real single coil, and it's a little on the thin side. It's not bad, it's just not great. It's OK.
> 
> There are a little less upper mids and a little more lower mids on the Tosin set. It reminds me of a Tone Zone in that regard. It feels thicker and perhaps more even.



Are the moderns different enough in voice 1 and 2 from the ta that I would want them in 2 guitars?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

georg_f said:


> awesome, thanks a lot
> I think I'll need to get the TA set then. This sounds very promising.
> 
> 
> 
> I see. Tosin's demos also sound rather clear and like a fully produced clean tone.
> 
> However, here's an uncommon thought among metal guitar players: We are used to having the tone knob always on 10. But if a guitar is too bright, we might as well leave the tone e.g. at 7 and consider that the "normal" setting. Or maybe have a fixed trim pot that always cut some treble in the electronics cavity.
> 
> E.g. some telecaster players have their tone knob at 5 for their "normal" sound, and turn up the treble only when necessary.



I get different dynamics from the pickup when I start lowering the knob like that and I don't like it. I can usually just EQ it however I want in the amp settings or whatever but some pickups are just too extreme to bother tailoring your entire sound to fit just that one pickup set.



diagrammatiks said:


> Are the moderns different enough in voice 1 and 2 from the ta that I would want them in 2 guitars?


I personally think that if you had both, you'd end up choosing a favorite. For me, they were fairly similar. I sided with the Moderns though due to them being a bit less harsh. I love voice 2.


----------



## Strobe

LeviathanKiller said:


> I personally think that if you had both, you'd end up choosing a favorite. For me, they were fairly similar. I sided with the Moderns though due to them being a bit less harsh. I love voice 2.



It's weird that we had the opposite experience with the TA vs. Modern set. I thought the Tosins were less bright and more even. I thought the moderns were a little more in your face with the treble (also, slightly tighter). Neither seemed harsh to me though.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Strobe said:


> It's weird that we had the opposite experience with the TA vs. Modern set. I thought the Tosins were less bright and more even. I thought the moderns were a little more in your face with the treble (also, slightly tighter). Neither seemed harsh to me though.



I agree that the TA set was looser | Modern set tighter

I think both sets are pretty aggressive in the highs personally which is ironic consider the aggressive passive set I normally use
TA set just seemed brighter in the wrong areas to me (maybe some upper mids being part of the that but I usually like a lot of upper mids, it's just that this seemed really grating to the ears)

Yeah, you're not the only one with a different experience. I'm not sure what the deal is. I installed the correct ones in the correct places.

Btw, I mentioned it earlier in this thread but, I recently switched the alnico and ceramic pickups (neck and bridge respectively) and I dig that configuration way more.


----------



## Chad

Have been running a Modern set in my ESP silver sparkle Eclipse for a few months. Finally fully committed last night and installed the Universal Battery pack. Images attached. It was a tight fit, but worked out okay. Had to fit the battery differently than what they suggest.

I've tried most of the setup options on the pickups and here is my final setup:
-Master Volume
-Push-pull neck tone (down is Voice 1 & up is Voice 2 on both pickups)
-Push-pull bridge tone (down is humbucking & up is single coil mode on both pickups)

I use bridge Voice 1 humbucking most of the time. This guitar is tuned to C standard and it sounds great.


----------



## lewis

Voice 2 sounds loads better than voice 1 of the moderns when tuned drop G or higher.
F and lower, voice 1 is better because of the improved tightness and top end balancing out the tuning.

At least thats what im finding on my 6 string


----------



## USMarine75

Probably the wrong forum... but I just installed a Fluence SSS set in my Samick "Valley Arts" Strat and wow. The stock pickups were actually pretty good (not sure since there's no labeling), but the tone from these is just magnificent. Clarity, punch, chime... yet stratty and quacky when I want.

There's a noticable volume boost when you engage the 60s mode instead of 50s, but I don't mind since it just sounds like you're engaging a boost like with the Clapton circuit/boost.

Definitely the best I've personally owned and heard with about 20 minutes of jamming at 3 AM, when I finished installing them lol.


----------



## Seabeast2000

USMarine75 said:


> Probably the wrong forum... but I just installed a Fluence SSS set in my Samick "Valley Arts" Strat and wow. The stock pickups were actually pretty good (not sure since there's no labeling), but the tone from these is just magnificent. Clarity, punch, chime... yet stratty and quacky when I want.
> 
> There's a noticable volume boost when you engage the 60s mode instead of 50s, but I don't mind since it just sounds like you're engaging a boost like with the Clapton circuit/boost.
> 
> Definitely the best I've personally owned and heard with about 20 minutes of jamming at 3 AM, when I finished installing them lol.



Great info, thanks. I was very curious about these.


----------



## USMarine75

The906 said:


> Great info, thanks. I was very curious about these.



I'm going to do a quick vid review at some point because these tones must be heard lol. I wish I had recorded the before tones though for comparison.


----------



## kisielk

I have a pair of the Tosin Abasis on order, just planning on running them off a 9V for starters, but I'd like to use one of the rechargeable battery packs eventually. Has anyone installed one in an RG, specifically and RG2228? Would the generic one fit in the control compartment or would I need to do some routing?


----------



## Tisca

@kisielk Can't help you but plz report back when you have them installed. Wondering what go get for my 2228.


----------



## kisielk

Will do. They just shipped today by regular mail so I should have them a week from now or so. Also waiting on a superswitch from StewMac.


----------



## pablometal

quick question, can i put a 12v cable from my pc power supply (or 5v usb) to my fishman pickups? i know they sell rechargeable batteries but i still want to know if it's possible to do this


----------



## diagrammatiks

pablometal said:


> quick question, can i put a 12v cable from my pc power supply (or 5v usb) to my fishman pickups? i know they sell rechargeable batteries but i still want to know if it's possible to do this



It needs to be exactly nine volts. But there’s not reason it won’t work. The amperage is controlled by the load.


----------



## pablometal

diagrammatiks said:


> It needs to be exactly nine volts. But there’s not reason it won’t work. The amperage is controlled by the load.


awesome, i was thinking about installing a usb port in my guitar just for the 12v(route a 12v cable instead of 5v), from what i know they work with 9 and 18v so i think it could be possible and also would sound a bit different. I really like my 85 in the bridge with 2 batteries!

Im just a bit scared but i really wanna do it


----------



## K-nizm

Have anyone compared KSE or TA with Emg 81TW and 89r in a Schecter Hellraiser c1?is it worth replacing?


----------



## cardinal

OK so I need some passive-sized 8-string pickups that sound like the Fluence Modern Ceramic Voice 1 (which I've asked: Fishman has no plans to release a passive-sized version).

What is closest? Neither the Fishman Open Core Classic nor the Merrow seem like they would be very similar. 

EMG? I have an EMG 57-8, and it's sorta in the same ball park. But not as tight or angry sounding. Is it going to be the EMG 81-8? 81-8X?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

cardinal said:


> OK so I need some passive-sized 8-string pickups that sound like the Fluence Modern Ceramic Voice 1 (which I've asked: Fishman has no plans to release a passive-sized version).
> 
> What is closest? Neither the Fishman Open Core Classic nor the Merrow seem like they would be very similar.
> 
> EMG? I have an EMG 57-8, and it's sorta in the same ball park. But not as tight or angry sounding. Is it going to be the EMG 81-8? 81-8X?


One of the 81 options sounds like your best bet. You are also right that the Open Core Classic and Merrow sets are not close at all.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Installed classics in my berg. Took my some getting used too. They are bright af. The neck pickup sounds like another bridge.


----------



## Jason B

diagrammatiks said:


> Installed classics in my berg. Took my some getting used too. They are bright af. The neck pickup sounds like another bridge.



Using HF tilt? Then again, every ‘Berg I’ve played has required compensating pickups to get the tone back into my comfort zone.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jason B said:


> Using HF tilt? Then again, every ‘Berg I’ve played has required compensating pickups to get the tone back into my comfort zone.



Ya I might try to perma ground the tilt. Still testing it out. It’s interesting having one guitar with a super bright neck. 

Abasi don’t have the same issue. But the pups are slanted a bit more as well.


----------



## Xaeldaren

I'm about to order an Aristides 070R, and I'm not which set is for me bbetween t moderns and the classics. I don't want too high of an output, but I'm wondering if the classics aren't tight enough for what I want compared to the moderns. If I want tightness and clarity but also lovely split tones which should I go for? I'm also not sure if the moderns with the -6db option might not be exactly what I'm looking for.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Xaeldaren said:


> I'm about to order an Aristides 070R, and I'm not which set is for me bbetween t moderns and the classics. I don't want too high of an output, but I'm wondering if the classics aren't tight enough for what I want compared to the moderns. If I want tightness and clarity but also lovely split tones which should I go for? I'm also not sure if the moderns with the -6db option might not be exactly what I'm looking for.



If you want it all. I’d recommend the abasi’s for a seven string. 

Not gonna get to try moderns for a little bit but the splits on the covered classics are just alright. Really just sound like lower output version of the pickups.


----------



## Xaeldaren

Yeah, the abasi set is really intriguing. I know the split-coil tones are meant to be amazing, but I'd be worried they'd be a bit too thick and high output for what I want. I want punchiness and clarity, but nothing that's too compressed or high output. I've seen them compared to the tone zone in this thread, and I didn't get on with that pickup - having said that I know it didn't have the clarity the Fishman's are famous for.


----------



## setsuna7

Xaeldaren said:


> Yeah, the abasi set is really intriguing. I know the split-coil tones are meant to be amazing, but I'd be worried they'd be a bit too thick and high output for what I want. I want punchiness and clarity, but nothing that's too compressed or high output. I've seen them compared to the tone zone in this thread, and I didn't get on with that pickup - having said that I know it didn't have the clarity the Fishman's are famous for.


I have the Tosins in my NT7, wired with no tone knob, two volumes, bridge pot: pull for splits; split is default voice 2(Passive) neck pot, voice 1/2. due the control(3 way toggle,instead of a blade switch) layout on my ESP, I can't do the Tosin's wiring. But tone wise, they feel and sounds like passives, even i voice 1, which is surprising to me. Comparing it to the EMG 817X in my Schecter, the Tosin's kinda like an SD Distortion and D'Activator. While the EMG sounds like EMGs. Worth noting that that the ESP is a neck thru, while the Schecter is a Bolt-On.


----------



## Tisca

setsuna7 said:


> But tone wise, they feel and sounds like passives, even i voice 1, which is surprising to me.



I have a hard time believing this if you by feel mean dynamics.


----------



## setsuna7

Tisca said:


> I have a hard time believing this if you by feel mean dynamics.



Feel & Dynamics. You need try these in real time to see/hear it for yourself, I'm just mincing words, for the lack of better term.


----------



## Tisca

setsuna7 said:


> Feel & Dynamics. You need try these in real time to see/hear it for yourself, I'm just mincing words, for the lack of better term.


You're talking about the Tosin set specifically? I've tried some moderns (at least) and they were lacking in dynamics.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

setsuna7 said:


> But tone wise, they feel and sounds like passives, even i voice 1, which is surprising to me. Comparing it to the EMG 817X in my Schecter, the Tosin's kinda like an SD Distortion and *D'Activator*.



You're partly comparing them to a passive pickup that's voiced to sound like an active pickup. My stance is that they do not sound like passives. They have more dynamics than the EMG 81/85 set I tried and also the EMG 57/66 set too, in my opinion, but still not on the same level as passives.



setsuna7 said:


> But tone wise, they feel and sounds like passives, even i voice 1, which is surprising to me.





Tisca said:


> I have a hard time believing this if you by feel mean dynamics.





setsuna7 said:


> Feel & Dynamics. You need try these in real time to see/hear it for yourself, I'm just mincing words, for the lack of better term.





Tisca said:


> You're talking about the Tosin set specifically? I've tried some moderns (at least) and they were lacking in dynamics.



I've tried the Modern set (still have 3 sets of them actually), I have two of the Keith Merrow sets, and I've tried and returned the Tosin Abasi set. The Modern set and Tosin set were fairly similar and both lacked the dynamics of passive pickups (I have over 30 different passive sets currently) and the tone was quite different as well (mostly in the treble / high mids region). The closest to passive between the Tosin Abasi and Modern sets was Voice 2 of the Modern set. The Keith Merrow set though is VERY VERY close to a passive sound in both Voice 1 and 2. I notice almost no difference in tone between my go-to passive sets and the Keith Merrow set and the difference in dynamics is the smallest difference I have ever experienced between active and passive pickups.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

LeviathanKiller said:


> I've tried the Modern set (still have 3 sets of them actually), I have two of the Keith Merrow sets, and I've tried and returned the Tosin Abasi set. The Modern set and Tosin set were fairly similar and both lacked the dynamics of passive pickups (I have over 30 different passive sets currently) and the tone was quite different as well (mostly in the treble / high mids region). The closest to passive between the Tosin Abasi and Modern sets was Voice 2 of the Modern set. The Keith Merrow set though is VERY VERY close to a passive sound in both Voice 1 and 2. I notice almost no difference in tone between my go-to passive sets and the Keith Merrow set and the difference in dynamics is the smallest difference I have ever experienced between active and passive pickups.



Do the Merrow's have the bite of the Moderns? I know they are voiced low-mid-ish but I would like to know if they can be a crisp on the treble and high mids since I like my tones fairly brighter. im looking to get a fluence that is voiced a bit like passives but still can get crisp if need be. I have Tosins, Moderns, and had a Classic set (that was too bright).

Moderns on V2 just have too much bass for me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> Do the Merrow's have the bite of the Moderns? I know they are voiced low-mid-ish but I would like to know if they can be a crisp on the treble and high mids since I like my tones fairly brighter. im looking to get a fluence that is voiced a bit like passives but still can get crisp if need be. I have Tosins, Moderns, and had a Classic set (that was too bright).
> 
> Moderns on V2 just have too much bass for me.



I feel the Classics (which the Merrows are based on) are crazy bright. MUCH brighter than the moderns.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I feel the Classics (which the Merrows are based on) are crazy bright. MUCH brighter than the moderns.



I made the mistake of installing it in my SG. Played both voices, I thought the guitar was just naturally bright. Then I put em in my mahogany Soloist which sounds huge and round and benefited from the tightness and EQ of the moderns. 

But holy hell. Upon playing it, V1 was grating and it could sound thin. V2 I can get used to but I needed to adjust all the live settings in my AX8 drastically.


----------



## setsuna7

Tisca said:


> You're talking about the Tosin set specifically? I've tried some moderns (at least) and they were lacking in dynamics.


the Tosins.


----------



## Tisca

setsuna7 said:


> the Tosins.


Have you compared other Fishmans to the Tosins?


----------



## setsuna7

Tisca said:


> Have you compared other Fishmans to the Tosins?


Yep. I had an MH 1000 NT with the moderns set with HF Tilt. Sold it to fund my dream guitar, the NT7.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

MASS DEFECT said:


> Do the Merrow's have the bite of the Moderns? I know they are voiced low-mid-ish but I would like to know if they can be a crisp on the treble and high mids since I like my tones fairly brighter. im looking to get a fluence that is voiced a bit like passives but still can get crisp if need be. I have Tosins, Moderns, and had a Classic set (that was too bright).
> 
> Moderns on V2 just have too much bass for me.



They sound different even in similar guitars. They sound better to me in my KM-7 MK-3 than they did in my KM-7 MK-2. I tend to prefer pickup sets that are more higher-focused so I can play more intricate technical things without a lack of clarity. The Keith Merrow set does it well without being grating/fatiguing like the Moderns and Tosins were for me.



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I feel the Classics (which the Merrows are based on) are crazy bright. MUCH brighter than the moderns.


Brighter overall but not as fatiguingly fizzy imo. I think the Classic bridge may be brighter than the KM bridge???
The Classic neck is the _same _pickup as the KM neck. Keith tweaked the Classic bridge but left the neck model alone. FYI to everyone who didn't know.


----------



## Tisca

Do Fishmans like certain types of guitars more than others, *bright vs dark* etc? I'm looking at a 2nd hand *Classic se*t I'm tempted to buy but none of my guitars "need" a pickup swap. Wondering if I'd end up buying yet another guitar just to fit the pickups in.


----------



## Jason B

Alternatively, spend that money making a new memory with someone you love.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tisca said:


> Do Fishmans like certain types of guitars more than others, *bright vs dark* etc? I'm looking at a 2nd hand *Classic se*t I'm tempted to buy but none of my guitars "need" a pickup swap. Wondering if I'd end up buying yet another guitar just to fit the pickups in.


most of the fishmans are better suited to darker sounding guitars from what I've been told/experienced. Moderns can be pretty bright at times and the classics/merrows are supposedly even brighter.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> most of the fishmans are better suited to darker sounding guitars from what I've been told/experienced. Moderns can be pretty bright at times and the classics/merrows are supposedly even brighter.


Moderns were too bright for swamp ash imo
Love my Merrows in swamp ash though
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## KnightBrolaire

LeviathanKiller said:


> Moderns were too bright for swamp ash imo
> Love my Merrows in swamp ash though
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


did you try both in the same guitar?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> did you try both in the same guitar?


Moderns in two Schecter C-7 SLS Elites and an Aristides 070R. Merrows in a Schecter KM-7 MK-2, a MK-3, and the same Aristides 070R.

Always brighter imo


----------



## diagrammatiks

I’m loving the classics in my Strandberg currently. They are bright af. But they aren’t ice picky at all. Amp needs a bit if eq change. But I can finally bring my bass up from zero.

Waiting on a pair of moderns now


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It was brought up in another thread, but it looks like Richard Kruspe or Rammstein may have a signature set in the future, after using EMGs for like.... 20 years. He talked in interviews about using Fishmans and having a custom set made.


----------



## juka

Great to hear that Fishman R&D is still alive and working on extending the Fluence line in the background. The complete absence of news at last NAMM really made me wonder.

As much as I love Rammstein I'm not sure what they could add to the Fluence line?

Ok, red pup covers obviously,

but keep in mind Satchel's green bobbins remained OEM, too.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

man I just wish they'd make the Adler set in something other than that distressed gold.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> Great to hear that Fishman R&D is still alive and working on extending the Fluence line in the background. The complete absence of news at last NAMM really made me wonder.
> 
> As much as I love Rammstein I'm not sure what they could add to the Fluence line?
> 
> Ok, red pup covers obviously,
> 
> but keep in mind Satchel's green bobbins remained OEM, too.



I was thinking Rich might actually get a sig set because he talked about getting a custom voiced set. He might have been exaggerating, but we'll see.



KnightBrolaire said:


> man I just wish they'd make the Adler set in something other than that distressed gold.



One thing I fear if Rich gets a sig set. They'll only be available in red.  

And yeah I agree. The Adler set looks intriguing, but... why just gold? Why not a flat black version? Do like the other sig sets do and have a colored stripe on it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I forgot if it was mentioned earlier in this thread or not, but the fluence bass pickups are 180 USD or 280$ for a set, according to sweetwater.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> I forgot if it was mentioned earlier in this thread or not, but the fluence bass pickups are 180 USD or 280$ for a set, according to sweetwater.



Jesus.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> I forgot if it was mentioned earlier in this thread or not, but the fluence bass pickups are 180 USD or *280$ for a set*, according to sweetwater.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1091--Bass_Pickups?params=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJCcmFuZCI6WyJGaXNobWFuIl19fQ


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I've had a week's time jamming on the Willie Adler signature Fluence. I installed them in my Jackson soloist which had a six string Tosin signature. And I don't know if it's the guitar or the rig, but V1 Tosin and V1 Adler sound pretty pretty close. V1 Adler just has less gain maybe because of the poles vs blade. V2 Adler is just Modern V1 with less compression and gain. 

The Tosin went back in since I love V2 on the Tosin for those clean and mid gain chords and thick leads. And of course, single coil voice is a nice bonus.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Longshot, but worth a try. Who wants to trade their 6 string Tosin Abasi set to my brandnew Modern Black Nickel set?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Alright planning out a set of pickups for my neck build.

Anyone play the tosins and the bkp impulses? tuned down to around A/B


----------



## LeviathanKiller

diagrammatiks said:


> Alright planning out a set of pickups for my neck build.
> 
> Anyone play the tosins and the bkp impulses? tuned down to around A/B



I have. Greatly prefer the BKP Impulse set over the Fishman Tosin set. They're not all that close to each sonically imo. The Impulse set is super flat and dry but lets you shape it quite well and it's very responsive. I have don't really have anything good to say about the Tosin set. It was quite shrill and compressed imo. Even though I don't like the Modern set a whole lot (just voice 2 of the bridge really) I'd take the Moderns over the Tosin set.

All of the sets I mentioned I use/used in swamp ash.


----------



## Acme

As much as I hated the Merrows in my Mayones Regius Core 7 at first, they totally grew on me in the last couple of weeks, to the degree that now I'm at a stage when I cannot imagine going back using normal passives again. I know this feeling will pass, but I got so used to the sound of the Fishmans that I feel all my passives are lacking in clarity and definition, especially in mid to high gain settings.


----------



## elkoki

Anyone experience hiss on their fluences? My neck pickup has a constant hiss but the bridge does not.. not sure what the problem is


----------



## juka

elkoki said:


> Anyone experience hiss on their fluences? My neck pickup has a constant hiss but the bridge does not.. not sure what the problem is



Noticed that the neck pup is always a tiny little bit noisier than the bridge pup on all my Fishman equipped guitars, but wouldn't describe it as a hiss, so I'm probably no help with your problem.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

elkoki said:


> Anyone experience hiss on their fluences? My neck pickup has a constant hiss but the bridge does not.. not sure what the problem is





juka said:


> Noticed that the neck pup is always a tiny little bit noisier than the bridge pup on all my Fishman equipped guitars, but wouldn't describe it as a hiss, so I'm probably no help with your problem.



same for me. the neck has a bit of noise and the bridge is dead quiet. but these are just for my modern sets. my tosin is not like that. i even checked and had another tech check if it was wired wrong. but everything was done correctly. 

weird.


----------



## juka

MASS DEFECT said:


> same for me. the neck has a bit of noise and the bridge is dead quiet. but these are just for my modern sets. my tosin is not like that. i even checked and had another tech check if it was wired wrong. but everything was done correctly.
> 
> weird.



Haven't tried the Tosins yet, but that seems to be another reason for me liking them. Was mostly referring to Moderns, but if I remember correctly the Classics and the Devins I tested had this too to a certain extend.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

I would absolutely go nuts to try the Stephen carpenter model
I really liked the sound profile that I heard him demo
it sounds a lot like an 81 but with some extra bite in the high mids rather than a compressed top

anyone own a Stephen carpenter set,? or a bridge ? I would buy one but I only saw them for over $200 and I really would rather maybe buy a used one. 

Can you return pickups to guitar center? lets say I ordered it, threw it in and didn't like it, could I just box it and bring it back?


----------



## elkoki

juka said:


> Noticed that the neck pup is always a tiny little bit noisier than the bridge pup on all my Fishman equipped guitars, but wouldn't describe it as a hiss, so I'm probably no help with your problem.


Well that's good to know. I would've messaged fluence about it. But I have a feeling I would've never got a response... Its not that loud but its definitely noticable when you go from the bridge to neck. The bridge has zero noise, then the neck has like a white noise sort of sound ?


----------



## USMarine75

diagrammatiks said:


> Alright planning out a set of pickups for my neck build.
> 
> Anyone play the tosins and the bkp impulses? tuned down to around A/B



I haven'y played the Tosins (I detest his tone) so I can't compare, but the BKP Impulses are glorious with low tunings. I consider them FRFR pickups... very clear and don't color your sound to my ears (opposite of Juggs for example). They work really well with my KPA (Regius 7 in drop-A) and are extremely articulate.

I'm a Fluence convert (I have Moderns and SSS), but there's nothing I don't like about the BKP Impulses and I have no reason to ever change them. I can't say how they would be in a guitar close to standard tunings for anyone that cares though (every Periphery pickup is horrific IMO).


----------



## elkoki

I got a bunch of these with my fluence pickups. I assume they are for the pins behind the pickup, but do they have any purpose ?


----------



## lewis

elkoki said:


> I got a bunch of these with my fluence pickups. I assume they are for the pins behind the pickup, but do they have any purpose ?
> View attachment 71052


yeah they are to hardwire the voices if you dont have a push/pull knob or whatever and just want one choice at all times

I use these in my Ibanez - I have one permantly on the neck pickup (so it stays in voice 2 at all times) and Ive kept it off the bridge pickup so that stays in voice 1 at all times.
Didnt bother with a push/pull or anything


----------



## Obsidian Soul

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I would absolutely go nuts to try the Stephen carpenter model
> I really liked the sound profile that I heard him demo
> it sounds a lot like an 81 but with some extra bite in the high mids rather than a compressed top
> 
> anyone own a Stephen carpenter set,? or a bridge ? I would buy one but I only saw them for over $200 and I really would rather maybe buy a used one.
> 
> Can you return pickups to guitar center? lets say I ordered it, threw it in and didn't like it, could I just box it and bring it back?


I have the new SCT607-B that comes stock with them.

I would say the guitar sounds a lot brighter than I was expecting. The bridge is very clear yet not too bright and harsh.The middle pickup is nothing special to write home about,but there's one setting that has a lot of everything,which is not mix friendly.


----------



## elkoki

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I would absolutely go nuts to try the Stephen carpenter model
> I really liked the sound profile that I heard him demo
> it sounds a lot like an 81 but with some extra bite in the high mids rather than a compressed top
> 
> anyone own a Stephen carpenter set,? or a bridge ? I would buy one but I only saw them for over $200 and I really would rather maybe buy a used one.
> 
> Can you return pickups to guitar center? lets say I ordered it, threw it in and didn't like it, could I just box it and bring it back?



Are you looking for 7 string versions of the Carpenter's?


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Yes

YOURE THE MAN dude- well ya made me go and do it didnt ya! I bought the stephen carpenter set! so THERe


----------



## Obsidian Soul

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Yes
> 
> YOURE THE MAN dude- well ya made me go and do it didnt ya! I bought the stephen carpenter set! so THERe


What are you tuning to?


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Either Drop D *on a 6 string* or I guess it would be Drop C? Or B standard....I dont go too low
That’s why i have the trusty 2228

CAn someone correct me, on a 7 string its drop C right?

And also, am I wrong in understanding the carpenter set is a mix of a modern and a tweaked modern basically, and what is this deal about voice 2? It sounds like voice 1 lol o lol i just hope its awesome as it sounds on paper and on my speakers (cant hot swap EMG which is why i said forget the8 set for the SC because i dont want to do any thing to my 2228, BUT i do need new pickups in my 7 strin)

And are there any techs on here that will install the pickups for me? Like does anyone have reasonable rates here in NYC/NJ area? Please let me know, because I need to route the guitar apparently


----------



## Obsidian Soul

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Either Drop D *on a 6 string* or I guess it would be Drop C? Or B standard....I dont go too low
> That’s why i have the trusty 2228
> 
> CAn someone correct me, on a 7 string its drop C right?
> 
> And also, am I wrong in understanding the carpenter set is a mix of a modern and a tweaked modern basically, and what is this deal about voice 2? It sounds like voice 1 lol o lol i just hope its awesome as it sounds on paper and on my speakers (cant hot swap EMG which is why i said forget the8 set for the SC because i dont want to do any thing to my 2228, BUT i do need new pickups in my 7 strin)


B standard on 7 strings or Drop A if you're emulating drop D.I tune to Drop G,but I think they'll sound even better in a higher tuning.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Ok then stick with B standard then
I can’t wait to try them
I know it’ll be a few months at least to get them installed unless someone on here can do it for some money ? Or I’ll let you keep the pickups(Evo 7 neck and hum) and I’ll buy you lunch!!! Anyone in NYC????


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

I bought an RPC to throw in there!! Now Ill have my own voicing lol


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Changed my mind
Keeping it all Fishman. 

I asked them about the tonal options and Carpenter has 3: tilt, split single, voicings

So I bought a third push pull pot 

It’s gonna be cool 

Now I don’t really understand the technology but they sound great on the recording 

I hope it’s as great as it sounds


----------



## cantplayguitar

So I need some input. I have an RG 7321 (7 string, basswood, bolt-on maple/walnut neck with a rosewood finger board) that needs new pickups. I'm very interested in Fishmans due to them having multiple voices and I want versatility. I'm wanting something that play metal but also get good clean sounds. I tend to gravitate towards old At the Gates, old In Flames, August Burns Red, Kill Switch Engage, Intervals, and Dream Theater tone-wise. 

If the KSE pickups were available in 7 string, those would probably be the one's to get but they're not. The Moderns seem the next logical choice, but do they really clean up all that well? Clips I've heard aren't so impressive on that end. Plus I'm not that interested in two different distorted tones. 

So what sayest ye merry gentlemen? Merrows, Abasis, Classics, or just get the Moderns? Or wait and see if any 7 string versions show up?


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

No I say the carpenters are the next logical choice, as i was in your position and ended up JUST purchasing them last night


----------



## MASS DEFECT

cantplayguitar said:


> So I need some input. I have an RG 7321 (7 string, basswood, bolt-on maple/walnut neck with a rosewood finger board) that needs new pickups. I'm very interested in Fishmans due to them having multiple voices and I want versatility. I'm wanting something that play metal but also get good clean sounds. I tend to gravitate towards old At the Gates, old In Flames, August Burns Red, Kill Switch Engage, Intervals, and Dream Theater tone-wise.
> 
> If the KSE pickups were available in 7 string, those would probably be the one's to get but they're not. The Moderns seem the next logical choice, but do they really clean up all that well? Clips I've heard aren't so impressive on that end. Plus I'm not that interested in two different distorted tones.
> 
> So what sayest ye merry gentlemen? Merrows, Abasis, Classics, or just get the Moderns? Or wait and see if any 7 string versions show up?



The moderns do clean up nicely especially on Voice 2 of either bridge and neck pups. Even on Voice 1 you can get workable cleans. If you are after darker tones, The Merrows and the Carpenter are your choices. For brighter tones, Classics and Moderns. Classics being the brighter set of the two. The Abasi is also on the bright side like the moderns but it has more lows and low mids to balance it out.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Well then i fucked up lol


----------



## diagrammatiks

They are all super bright if you are used to passives. 

The abasi have the best clean tones and are the most versatile.


----------



## possumkiller

So do these actually get a convincing single coil sound? If I load a set of these into my flying v and use the single coil setting, could I get a passable Hendrix/Gilmour style tones?


----------



## Acme

possumkiller said:


> So do these actually get a convincing single coil sound? If I load a set of these into my flying v and use the single coil setting, could I get a passable Hendrix/Gilmour style tones?



They will sound a tiny bit lifeless compared to a passive single coil, that typical twang will not be there, but this is less noticeable in mid to high gain scenarios.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Apparently thats what they say....and thast why i had to ask for a “custom” diagram for the 3 options for high filter tilt, split coil and of course the famous voicing,..otherwise with carpenter diagram they only gave me 2 out of 3 options...their reasoning? They didnt want to include a third $2 pull push pot,, so i had to buy it from them for $20.....at least i have THREE fishman fluence features instead of just the 2

Turns out i was right, carpenter 7 string set IS the right one that i wanted


----------



## Acme

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Apparently thats what they say....and thast why i had to ask for a “custom” diagram for the 3 options for high filter tilt, split coil and of course the famous voicing,..otherwise with carpenter diagram they only gave me 2 out of 3 options...their reasoning? They didnt want to include a third $2 pull push pot,, so i had to buy it from them for $20.....at least i have THREE fishman fluence features instead of just the 2
> 
> Turns out i was right, carpenter 7 string set IS the right one that i wanted



I think you're moving way too fast. Is there a guitar shop nearby where you could try some of the Fishmans before pulling the trigger on any of them?


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

I am moving too fast. You’re right. I don’t have any fishman’s that I can play at my local shops (guitar centers here dont usually have guitars like that). But its all good. I made a mistake and I spoke to Mike at Fishman

So: The reason I contacted them was I wanted the full tonal palette. After researching and watching vids on YouTube, i found out, Carpenter has THREE , not two, tonal options on the palette.

Pot 1: The voicing, 1 and 2 and however that goes
Pot 2: the split/single coil option, either outer two, inner two, or double hum split
Pot 3: the HF tilt Which is the one I’m after most of all

However, i wanted all 3....now i thought the EMG RPC would be a good addition, but that would be overkill because that would be a double boost with the HF Tilt

So I’m good: the question is whether to pay to install them or not?? I am not really comfy doing this type of work, but I also think the video on you tube is easy to follow....my problem is theres no wiring diagram for the 3 options because I’ve only seen one other person do what I’m trying to do with these pickups

Otherwise, there will soon be a Stephen Carpenter 7 string set up for sale lol


[It was between the Fishman SC set i bought or Lace DB7/Hum 7, and because i got a SICK deal on the Fishman set, i took it, but i definitely want them....its about the install at this point, i gotta throw it in my RG 7620)


----------



## LeviathanKiller

possumkiller said:


> So do these actually get a convincing single coil sound? If I load a set of these into my flying v and use the single coil setting, could I get a passable Hendrix/Gilmour style tones?


Neither the Moderns nor Keith Merrow set do a convincing single coil tone imo
They actually sound a bit too thin and bright imo. I get much better results from just coil splitting the right passive humbucker set.

I did not wire the Tosin set up to demo the single coil tone before I returned them



WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I am moving too fast. You’re right. I don’t have any fishman’s that I can play at my local shops (guitar centers here dont usually have guitars like that). But its all good. I made a mistake and I spoke to Mike at Fishman
> 
> So: The reason I contacted them was I wanted the full tonal palette. After researching and watching vids on YouTube, i found out, Carpenter has THREE , not two, tonal options on the palette.
> 
> Pot 1: The voicing, 1 and 2 and however that goes
> Pot 2: the split/single coil option, either outer two, inner two, or double hum split
> Pot 3: the HF tilt Which is the one I’m after most of all
> 
> However, i wanted all 3....now i thought the EMG RPC would be a good addition, but that would be overkill because that would be a double boost with the HF Tilt
> 
> So I’m good: the question is whether to pay to install them or not?? I am not really comfy doing this type of work, but I also think the video on you tube is easy to follow....my problem is theres no wiring diagram for the 3 options because I’ve only seen one other person do what I’m trying to do with these pickups
> 
> Otherwise, there will soon be a Stephen Carpenter 7 string set up for sale lol
> 
> 
> [It was between the Fishman SC set i bought or Lace DB7/Hum 7, and because i got a SICK deal on the Fishman set, i took it, but i definitely want them....its about the install at this point, i gotta throw it in my RG 7620)



What you're doing is complex but definitely doable as far as I know. Just combine diagrams to get what you want.

Pot 1 is a normal diagram part
Pot 2 is also a normal diagram part
Pot 3 is just a wire from the HF tilt solder pad

Should be pretty easy.

The difficult part is the fact that you only have two knobs on that guitar by default. I don't think you should be using pots for all of these. It would be done easiest by swapping the blade switch to a 5-way switch if it isn't one already.

n - ns - nsbs | nb - bs - b

n being neck
ns being neck split
nsbs being both split
nb being both (not split)
bs being bridge split
b being bridge

Then have a pot for the voicing and a pot for the HF tilt


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I am moving too fast. You’re right. I don’t have any fishman’s that I can play at my local shops (guitar centers here dont usually have guitars like that). But its all good. I made a mistake and I spoke to Mike at Fishman
> 
> So: The reason I contacted them was I wanted the full tonal palette. After researching and watching vids on YouTube, i found out, Carpenter has THREE , not two, tonal options on the palette.
> 
> Pot 1: The voicing, 1 and 2 and however that goes
> Pot 2: the split/single coil option, either outer two, inner two, or double hum split
> Pot 3: the HF tilt Which is the one I’m after most of all
> 
> However, i wanted all 3....now i thought the EMG RPC would be a good addition, but that would be overkill because that would be a double boost with the HF Tilt
> 
> So I’m good: the question is whether to pay to install them or not?? I am not really comfy doing this type of work, but I also think the video on you tube is easy to follow....my problem is theres no wiring diagram for the 3 options because I’ve only seen one other person do what I’m trying to do with these pickups
> 
> Otherwise, there will soon be a Stephen Carpenter 7 string set up for sale lol
> 
> 
> [It was between the Fishman SC set i bought or Lace DB7/Hum 7, and because i got a SICK deal on the Fishman set, i took it, but i definitely want them....its about the install at this point, i gotta throw it in my RG 7620)



Is that possible? To forgo the third push pull?
I ordered it and Mike from Fishman said i would need to drill a small hole for the third knob

THanks for such detail, really. I appreciate when people take time to read and respond apropo. 

PS it IS a five way switch, but the coil tapping is active, so it must be on or off


----------



## cantplayguitar

MASS DEFECT said:


> The moderns do clean up nicely especially on Voice 2 of either bridge and neck pups. Even on Voice 1 you can get workable cleans. If you are after darker tones, The Merrows and the Carpenter are your choices. For brighter tones, Classics and Moderns. Classics being the brighter set of the two. The Abasi is also on the bright side like the moderns but it has more lows and low mids to balance it out.


Darker isn't really what I'm going for per se, so that's helpful. For the Moderns, is it a kind of clean that you need to add a little chorus and reverb to make it more convincing as a clean tone?


----------



## cantplayguitar

diagrammatiks said:


> They are all super bright if you are used to passives.
> 
> The abasi have the best clean tones and are the most versatile.


I am, so I guess there's that. I'm adverse to Carpenter set since it seems it's just all flame thrower and more flame thrower. Since this is my only guitar right now and for the foreseeable future, I need some level of versatility since I'm not always playing some genre of metal. How close can the abasi set get to say old In Flames or Killswitch? Of course amp and cab and od's play a role in that (going to be using full modeling with either Helix of Fm3).


----------



## cantplayguitar

@LeviathanKiller what kind of range of tones do you play with the Merrow set?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

cantplayguitar said:


> Darker isn't really what I'm going for per se, so that's helpful. For the Moderns, is it a kind of clean that you need to add a little chorus and reverb to make it more convincing as a clean tone?



They can be made that way. But it's not the best. The classics have a better clean profile. With the moderns like any high gain active pickups, it can get spiky with a strong attack if you don't pick carefully and your amp's clean channel breaks up easily. 

The best clean from the ceramic fluence offerings is the tosin. Voice 3 single coil tones are tele-like and it does have some twang. And it's voice 2 clean from the neck and bridge are kinds similar to my SG clean to mid gain.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

cantplayguitar said:


> @LeviathanKiller what kind of range of tones do you play with the Merrow set?



Just about everything. I prefer most of my passive sets over them though. I'm actually considering taking them out of the KM-7 MK-3 that my last set of them came in. I've already removed them from my KM-7 MK-2.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Leviathan do you think anything good of the SC set?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Leviathan do you think anything good of the SC set?


Haven't tried the Stephen Carpenter set.


----------



## cantplayguitar

LeviathanKiller said:


> Just about everything. I prefer most of my passive sets over them though. I'm actually considering taking them out of the KM-7 MK-3 that my last set of them came in. I've already removed them from my KM-7 MK-2.


Interesting. What's replacing them? And what tones can't you coax out of the Merrows?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

cantplayguitar said:


> Interesting. What's replacing them? And what tones can't you coax out of the Merrows?


It's a bit more about dynamics when it comes to the Merrows lacking something. The tone is just a tad harsh for them to be as versatile as I want too.
I've replaced nearly all of my pickups with Guitarmory sets. I have like 17 sets so far. I've got maybe 4 sets that aren't Guitarmory that are installed in a guitar.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

My set comes Thursday. The tech said to come in Saturday so maybe this weekend ill have it dropped off most likely. As long as the third pot comes in before Saturday which it should then the Stephen carpenter set will be put in fairly quickly. He owes me BIG TIME


----------



## elkoki

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> My set comes Thursday. The tech said to come in Saturday so maybe this weekend ill have it dropped off most likely. As long as the third pot comes in before Saturday which it should then the Stephen carpenter set will be put in fairly quickly. He owes me BIG TIME



What do you mean by third pot? The SC only comes with 2 pots? My Fluence set came with 4


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

I ordered the third for the three tonal Options at Mikes instructions and diagrams

I outlined above ^^^


WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I am moving too fast. You’re right. I don’t have any fishman’s that I can play at my local shops (guitar centers here dont usually have guitars like that). But its all good. I made a mistake and I spoke to Mike at Fishman
> 
> So: The reason I contacted them was I wanted the full tonal palette. After researching and watching vids on YouTube, i found out, Carpenter has THREE , not two, tonal options on the palette.
> 
> Pot 1: The voicing, 1 and 2 and however that goes
> Pot 2: the split/single coil option, either outer two, inner two, or double hum split
> Pot 3: the HF tilt Which is the one I’m after most of all
> 
> However, i wanted all 3....now i thought the EMG RPC would be a good addition, but that would be overkill because that would be a double boost with the HF Tilt
> 
> So I’m good: the question is whether to pay to install them or not?? I am not really comfy doing this type of work, but I also think the video on you tube is easy to follow....my problem is theres no wiring diagram for the 3 options because I’ve only seen one other person do what I’m trying to do with these pickups
> 
> Otherwise, there will soon be a Stephen Carpenter 7 string set up for sale lol
> 
> 
> [It was between the Fishman SC set i bought or Lace DB7/Hum 7, and because i got a SICK deal on the Fishman set, i took it, but i definitely want them....its about the install at this point, i gotta throw it in my RG 7620)


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Elkoki 
My carpenters are here today!!! Yay, so if that pot comes in by Friday, I’m having this installed this weekend and ill probably be posting pics and clips next weekend


----------



## lewis

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Elkoki
> My carpenters are here today!!! Yay, so if that pot comes in by Friday, I’m having this installed this weekend and ill probably be posting pics and *clips next weekend*



Might be an excellent time to do these and the 81 + RPC clips all at the same time as an interesting comparison between the sets


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

EDIT - they fixed It

I expressed my utter and extreme dissatisfaction and then told them my installer was a fishman dealer, and they said theyd UPS it right over to them instead

so they are alright


diagrams on the other hand ;p lol


----------



## diagrammatiks

Fishman service is like hilarious

don't ever ever ever ask them for a wiring diagram

That being said why did you order a pot from them
it's just a 25k p/p or normal pot. small diameter.


----------



## lewis

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I’m extremely annnoyed with Fishman. Their CS is for shit. I ordered another pot, and it got confiscated by USPS. I showed them tracking, and that I wasn’t getting the pot sent to my home because of whatever they found, i guess the metal???
> 
> Anyway, their solution: just buy another pot and if the other one shows up i can return it! Rude on top of it
> 
> Lol what customer service!


WOAH

Thats fucking terrible.... Wow a real low from them if thats true


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

lewis said:


> WOAH
> 
> Thats fucking terrible.... Wow a real low from them if thats true


I’m actually considering ditching the set now and just keep my Evos

I’m very annoyed

And you’re right diagram!!


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Ok they reshipped directly to my installer who Happened to be a Fishman authorized dealer 

So they are worth it ! I think lol


----------



## cantplayguitar

LeviathanKiller said:


> It's a bit more about dynamics when it comes to the Merrows lacking something. The tone is just a tad harsh for them to be as versatile as I want too.
> I've replaced nearly all of my pickups with Guitarmory sets. I have like 17 sets so far. I've got maybe 4 sets that aren't Guitarmory that are installed in a guitar.


That's commitment. And to a good cause.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I’m actually considering ditching the set now and just keep my Evos
> 
> I’m very annoyed
> 
> And you’re right diagram!!





WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Ok they reshipped directly to my installer who Happened to be a Fishman authorized dealer
> 
> So they are worth it ! I think lol


wow such a roller coaster, do keep us appraised of every minute detail surrounding this situation.


----------



## MistaSnowman

diagrammatiks said:


> Fishman service is like hilarious
> 
> don't ever ever ever ask them for a wiring diagram



I asked Fishman for a wiring diagram for my KM7 MKI yesterday and 'Mike' got it to me in less than 20 minutes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MistaSnowman said:


> I asked Fishman for a wiring diagram for my KM7 MKI yesterday and 'Mike' got it to me in less than 20 minutes.


I guess they heard our complaints.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

KnightBrolaire said:


> wow such a roller coaster, do keep us appraised of every minute detail surrounding this situation.


You got it boss


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I guess they heard our complaints.


that was my point and I think that’s exactly why they did what they did, despite it being a “rollercoaster” 

Don’t forget your Dramamine or marijuana , whichever works for you


----------



## possumkiller

So if they can make a humbucker with "true" single coil voice, can they make a single coil with a humbucker voice?


----------



## diagrammatiks

possumkiller said:


> So if they can make a humbucker with "true" single coil voice, can they make a single coil with a humbucker voice?



I mean it's arguable whether or not its a true single coil voice. 

But the other way doesn't really work...since you need two single coils in a certain size package. They can definitely make noise less singles or a hum bucker in a single coil size. but it's not gonna be the same.


----------



## possumkiller

diagrammatiks said:


> I mean it's arguable whether or not its a true single coil voice.
> 
> But the other way doesn't really work...since you need two single coils in a certain size package. They can definitely make noise less singles or a hum bucker in a single coil size. but it's not gonna be the same.


Idk they talk about not doing traditional wound coil technology and using some digital kind of stuff.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

possumkiller said:


> Idk they talk about not doing traditional wound coil technology and using some digital kind of stuff.


I wish I had a better understand if it myself
I beleive it’s not winding at all, I think it’s two circuit boards in between the magnetic poles and a processor
Is producing the sound
Honestly the way it sound to me is it’s almost like a modeling pickup
Idk 
If someone knows please explain the tech cuz EMG is ez, it’s An active preamp


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Processor? No. The circuit board layers replace the windings for consistency. I believe Fluence pickups come with Fishman active preamps, just like EMGs. From Keith's account a few months back, it seems that Fishman do have a modeller pickup that they use during the design phase, using computer software, they tweak certain parameters until desired tone achieved, but then these parameters are used to produce the real pickup which has no processors or digital emulation whatsoever.


----------



## diagrammatiks

possumkiller said:


> Idk they talk about not doing traditional wound coil technology and using some digital kind of stuff.



There's nothing digital about the pickups. They are just printed circuit board instead of windings and they have an integrated preamp in each casing.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Who here has used the Modern Ceramic bridge pickup? Seems like it’d be pretty gnarly but I’ve yet to talk to someone who has used one.


----------



## lewis

youngthrasher9 said:


> Who here has used the Modern Ceramic bridge pickup? Seems like it’d be pretty gnarly but I’ve yet to talk to someone who has used one.


Yeah i have modern ceramic in my main gigging guitar. Voice one is insanely tight and thin. Needs a lower tuning to compliment it or an amp that has massive but controlled bass on tap. Its tone is almoat cocked wah like. High mid focus.
voice 2 i didnt really like for my tuning and style. It was boomy


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

lewis said:


> Yeah i have modern ceramic in my main gigging guitar. Voice one is insanely tight and thin. Needs a lower tuning to compliment it or an amp that has massive but controlled bass on tap. Its tone is almoat cocked wah like. High mid focus.
> voice 2 i didnt really like for my tuning and style. It was boomy


That’s what I’m concerned about, too much low mids , from what I’ve been “reading about the SC” but so few people have them or have reported so i dont know

Im BANKING hard on the H/F Tilt! If that doesn’t work, I guess Ill know what to do with that extra RPC I got laying around looking for a quick connect home to go to lol


----------



## Obsidian Soul

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> That’s what I’m concerned about, too much low mids , from what I’ve been “reading about the SC” but so few people have them or have reported so i dont know
> 
> Im BANKING hard on the H/F Tilt! If that doesn’t work, I guess Ill know what to do with that extra RPC I got laying around looking for a quick connect home to go to lol


If you're going to play a higher tuning than me(drop G),you shouldn't have any problems.Again,the only thing I don't like is the big difference in volume between the two voices for the neck/middle pickup and the louder of the two also being boomy(the big round hump that Arnold talked about in his review video).


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Obsidian Soul said:


> If you're going to play a higher tuning than me(drop G),you shouldn't have any problems.Again,the only thing I don't like is the big difference in volume between the two voices for the neck/middle pickup and the louder of the two also being boomy(the big round hump that Arnold talked about in his review video).


No, I dont tune that low. I use B standard...i rarely ever downtune my 7 string.
Only my 8string stays low. I prefer 27-29.5” scale for anything under B standard on a 7 (meaning F# or lower has to be on my 8 string)

Thanks for the feedback, i think ill be alright
I’m on my way to the shop in an hour so ::Fingers crossed he finishes today::


----------



## LeviathanKiller

youngthrasher9 said:


> Who here has used the Modern Ceramic bridge pickup? Seems like it’d be pretty gnarly but I’ve yet to talk to someone who has used one.




Basically the quote below, but I didn't mind voice 2 actually (preferred it over voice 1) but I have other sets that were fairly similar but edged out with me liking more, so I'm just going to use those. lol
Swapping the two pickups in the Modern set so that you have the alnico in the bridge and the ceramic in the neck was much better imo. It still wasn't really my thing but it sounded much fuller and was more enjoyable to play as a result.



lewis said:


> Yeah i have modern ceramic in my main gigging guitar. Voice one is insanely tight and thin. Needs a lower tuning to compliment it or an amp that has massive but controlled bass on tap. Its tone is almoat cocked wah like. High mid focus.
> voice 2 i didnt really like for my tuning and style. It was boomy


----------



## Seabeast2000

Just thinkint out loud....So those Fishman Fluence Singles look very interesting, but I think that circuit board baseplate flange might not fit in direct mount with symmetrical routes. 






vs.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

So Peekamoose has her
2 weeks till I get her back

Even Paul Schwartz who is a arguably the best tech on earth was even like”these look so cool, especially with the boost, but i still have yet to personally try it”

So I told him feel free to take her for a test drive after you install 

We are doin the voicing , hf tilt, and I got an extra diagram for split coil middle mode!!!! Can’t wait dude

Fuck EMG LOL jk


----------



## lewis

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> So Peekamoose has her
> 2 weeks till I get her back
> 
> Even Paul Schwartz who is a arguably the best tech on earth was even like”these look so cool, especially with the boost, but i still have yet to personally try it”
> 
> So I told him feel free to take her for a test drive after you install
> 
> We are doin the voicing , hf tilt, and I got an extra diagram for split coil middle mode!!!! Can’t wait dude
> 
> *Fuck EMG LOL jk*



haha! you can enjoy and use both like me.  We dont need "vs" talk anymore.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> So Peekamoose has her
> 2 weeks till I get her back
> 
> Even Paul Schwartz who is a arguably the best tech on earth was even like”these look so cool, especially with the boost, but i still have yet to personally try it”
> 
> So I told him feel free to take her for a test drive after you install
> 
> We are doin the voicing , hf tilt, and I got an extra diagram for split coil middle mode!!!! Can’t wait dude
> 
> Fuck EMG LOL jk


Let us know how the split sounds.My guitar didn't have the split or HF tilt functions.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

Absoltuely obsidian , I plan on making some clips for Lewis anyway, he keeps nagging the shit out of me so ill do it all at once in a couple of weeks like he requested....geez the things i do for my friends lol lol

And Lewis you are right bro...no more versus, especially cuz i have like 4 EMG equipped guitars worth over 2k each, so I cant hate, not all the way anyway

Plus i still have yet to hear this shit but my god, after Paul’s reaction on the TRIPLE threat i had diagrammed, he said its simple enough, just a little routing, a long sleeve output jack and ill be in business.....the rg7620 really is the most basic amazing 7 string. There’s no room in there for the battery at all, so we’re taking a chunk out


----------



## elkoki

youngthrasher9 said:


> Who here has used the Modern Ceramic bridge pickup? Seems like it’d be pretty gnarly but I’ve yet to talk to someone who has used one.



I've had/have the Modern in 3 guitars. In my Schecter C-7 Hellraiser it sounded the best, it's naturally a dark sounding guitar because of it's huge mahogany neck and body. The brightness of the pickup mixed with the dark tone of the guitar balanced each other really well...

In the other 2 Schecters, S-1 & C7 SLS , which are both swamp ash, they sound pretty bright, kind of thin & lots of mids.. In standard tuning they sound good, but they sound excellent in drop tunings. I haven't tried the HF tilt thing though.

To be 100% honest, in the SLS I can hardly make out the difference between voice 1 & 2. In my S-1 the difference is waaay more noticeable. Voice 2 sounds a little looser & bassier. Which I actually kind of like because it's such a bright guitar.


----------



## elkoki

Anyone know if I can use any capacitor for Fluence pickups? Or there specific ones you need to use for active pickups? I don't know much about this stuff.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

I have to be honest. When Paul looked at the kit, he said, hmmm ok they have everything, but they are using 50k pots and what not so he said its FAR different than EMG, in fact, except for the active component, i think from my understanding, they share barely anything in common but thats my uneducated guess based off my reading and my tech


----------



## lewis

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> Absoltuely obsidian , I plan on making some clips for Lewis anyway, *he keeps nagging the shit out of me so ill do it all at once in a couple of weeks like he requested*....geez the things i do for my friends lol lol
> 
> And Lewis you are right bro...no more versus, especially cuz i have like 4 EMG equipped guitars worth over 2k each, so I cant hate, not all the way anyway
> 
> Plus i still have yet to hear this shit but my god, after Paul’s reaction on the TRIPLE threat i had diagrammed, he said its simple enough, just a little routing, a long sleeve output jack and ill be in business.....the rg7620 really is the most basic amazing 7 string. There’s no room in there for the battery at all, so we’re taking a chunk out




Whilst i would be grateful for a clip, i did only ask you once and if you didnt mind 

Wouldnt say thats nagging but hey ho.


----------



## WhiteLightOfDeath

It was a joke dude


----------



## Masoo2

6 string baritone, Drop F/E, want to nail that Vildhjarta/Humanity's Last Breath/thall tone

Buster recently switched over to Fishmans but just wanted to ask here to see what you guys say

Moderns vs Open Core Classics vs Others

Compressed low end to nail those deathcore-esque chugs and djenty note separation, super glassy highs for cleans (open core classics have the single coil voice 3 now), and a bit of mid twang when needed

Voice 1 of the Moderns seems like my ideal compressed tone, but moving past towards glassy highs and twangy mids makes me wonder if something like the Classics would work better, though Voice 2 of the Moderns also seem to bring forth that mid twang in a slight less-gainy way which is interesting.

I would consider Lundgren M8s or BKP Aftermaths/Impulses, but the guitar is already wired for EMGs with a battery box so I might as well give Fluences a shot


----------



## juka

WhiteLightOfDeath said:


> I have to be honest. When Paul looked at the kit, he said, hmmm ok they have everything, but they are using 50k pots and what not so he said its FAR different than EMG, in fact, except for the active component, i think from my understanding, they share barely anything in common but thats my uneducated guess based off my reading and my tech


No, pots have the same value. So if you have a guitar with EMGs installed you can just plug in Fishmans (just V1) or vice versa.


----------



## Taikatatti

Masoo2 said:


> 6 string baritone, Drop F/E, want to nail that Vildhjarta/Humanity's Last Breath/thall tone
> 
> Buster recently switched over to Fishmans but just wanted to ask here to see what you guys say
> 
> Moderns vs Open Core Classics vs Others
> 
> Compressed low end to nail those deathcore-esque chugs and djenty note separation, super glassy highs for cleans (open core classics have the single coil voice 3 now), and a bit of mid twang when needed
> 
> Voice 1 of the Moderns seems like my ideal compressed tone, but moving past towards glassy highs and twangy mids makes me wonder if something like the Classics would work better, though Voice 2 of the Moderns also seem to bring forth that mid twang in a slight less-gainy way which is interesting.
> 
> I would consider Lundgren M8s or BKP Aftermaths/Impulses, but the guitar is already wired for EMGs with a battery box so I might as well give Fluences a shot




I would go for modern ceramic. Big part of Busters tone is his playing style and the string gauges he uses. His Kameckis have evertunes so he can get away with using really light strings, which kinda brings that twang.


----------



## Masoo2

Taikatatti said:


> I would go for modern ceramic. Big part of Busters tone is his playing style and the string gauges he uses. His Kameckis have evertunes so he can get away with using really light strings, which kinda brings that twang.


For sure about his string gauges. I'm already a big proponent of lighter-than-heavier, so I'm going to have no problem at all opting for a similar string set (_really_ want to try out his tuning style of Drop _ for the lowest four and then two high strings a semitone apart). Whether I opt for a 72 and 56 on the lower strings or 70 and 54 I'm not certain yet, but nevertheless it's not like I'd be going for 80s and up

The Modern Ceramic was the first Fluence to grab my attention so it's the one I've been leaning towards the most. Something about the high end that I've heard from the Classics just seems excellent though, but I'm sure the Moderns would still deliver on that front far more than any pickup I've used before (mostly stock OEM stuff).

I'm not immediately dissing the EMGs though, still going to give them a fair shot and see how they fair down to F/E/D/C


----------



## diagrammatiks

Dropped moderns into my Strandberg.

Easy change. The clips plugged right in. Depending on your revision the only difference is that the standard modern connector is a 6 because of high fi tilt.

Need to spend more time with them but my first impression is that I like the classics better.

Bridge: compressed. Other voice even more compressed. Definitely a shit ton of output. More then the classics at the same pickup heigh. But I feel like v2 of the classics can achieve around the same thing by being placed a little bit higher.

Split coils: this is actual good. Usable split coils. The classics lose a lot of output when split.

Neck: this neck is a mistake. It’s been a long time since I plugged a pickup in and thought what the eff. This made me go what. Cocked wah all day. Free wah. You didn’t have a wah before? Now you got a wah. Wah wah wah. Every note wah wah wah.

Wah wah wah.

Classics going back in neck string change.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I noticed the same thing with the Modern neck. It's less EMG 60 and more EMG 85. Which I don't like. At all. Voice 2 is just... there. 

The Classic neck is leaps and bounds better. Voice 1 is amazing for cleans. Like a single coil meets a humbucker. Voice 2 is amazing for dirt due to the fluid midrange it has. 

And yeah, I agree V2 of the Classics are better than the Modern's V2. Less output, less low end, growlier midrange.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And yeah, I agree V2 of the Classics are better than the Modern's V2. Less output, less low end, growlier midrange.



Would you say very to close to EMG 57?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> Would you say very to close to EMG 57?



Going by memory, I liked the Fluences more. The 57 was smoother and more polite while the Fluence fucked shit up with the more aggressive voicing.

I didn't keep the 57/66's long. Ended up settling on an 81/60 set in the guitar.


----------



## angl2k

youngthrasher9 said:


> Who here has used the Modern Ceramic bridge pickup? Seems like it’d be pretty gnarly but I’ve yet to talk to someone who has used one.



I have tried the 6 string version in a maple/mahogany ESP Horizon into an Engl Savage. Drop C.

Bridge voice 1 is tight and percussive. I think it sounds similar to an 81 but with a bit more low end and a bit more high mids. Voice 2 has definitely more low end, it's more useful in standard tuning or mid gain tones. Can't remember my exact gain settings but I think the 81 has more output of the 2. I prefer the 81 for standard tuning and the modern ceramic v1 for D standard and drop C tuning.

I also have the 7 string version in a maple/alder ESP Horizon into the same amp (drop A). It's chunky but not muddy on the 7th string (light gauges also help). I did notice that the low E sounds a bit softer than the low A and the mid A. Might be a string gauge thing since I use a regular 6 string set with a separate single for the 7th string.

Didn't like the modern neck at all, EMG 60A is the best neck active pup with my style and rig.


----------



## Quiet Coil

I’m going to be putting up a pair of Modern Ceramic 8’s up in the gear for sale thread later, feel free to PM me if interested. They came out of my RGD71ALMS and as such have the brushed steel cap (which doesn’t appear to be an available option elsewhere).


----------



## nateispro

Noisy Humbucker said:


> I’m going to be putting up a pair of Modern Ceramic 8’s up in the gear for sale thread later, feel free to PM me if interested. They came out of my RGD71ALMS and as such have the brushed steel cap (which doesn’t appear to be an available option elsewhere).



Messaged you!


----------



## Electric Wizard

Question for all the fluence experts;
For the sets that have it, is voice 3 different than coil splitting? Trying to figure out the wiring for a Tosin set I have coming and they seem to refer to both terms in some places but only mention splitting on the diagrams.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Electric Wizard said:


> Question for all the fluence experts;
> For the sets that have it, is voice 3 different than coil splitting? Trying to figure out the wiring for a Tosin set I have coming and they seem to refer to both terms in some places but only mention splitting on the diagrams.




No. The single coil voicing is a split that has its own voice profile on the abasis. 

On the modern and og classics the split would just split the bucker. The p/p voicing for 1/2 would still effect the single coil sound.


----------



## teof

Guys, need some guidance. I have a HSH guitar with as normal 5 way switch. Single vol and tone. I have a set of open core fishman humbuckers. Is it possible to install the fishmans? I wasn't able to find a wiring diagram on fisman site other than one that is using a 5-Position 4P5T “Super Switch”. My 5 way looks like this https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...3kAhVFILcAHeYcBI4QMwjAAShFMEU&iact=mrc&uact=8.

Will be grateful if anyone of you could provide me with some guidance or direct me to a wiring diagram. Many thanks guys.


----------



## Indigo Shinigami

teof said:


> Guys, need some guidance. I have a HSH guitar with as normal 5 way switch. Single vol and tone. I have a set of open core fishman humbuckers. Is it possible to install the fishmans? I wasn't able to find a wiring diagram on fisman site other than one that is using a 5-Position 4P5T “Super Switch”. My 5 way looks like this https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://img.cesdeals.com/products/1/1/9/119288/119288-4_wmk.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.cesdeals.com/product/5-way-selector-electric-guitar-pickup-switches-toggle-lever-switch-black-musical-stringed-instruments-guitar-parts--accessories-119288&docid=Zk_m25jRewFiRM&tbnid=MkBVezhW9JWq-M:&vet=10ahUKEwjfrY3Rs73kAhVFILcAHeYcBI4QMwjAAShFMEU..i&w=1001&h=1001&bih=657&biw=1366&q=5 way pickup switch&ved=0ahUKEwjfrY3Rs73kAhVFILcAHeYcBI4QMwjAAShFMEU&iact=mrc&uact=8.
> 
> Will be grateful if anyone of you could provide me with some guidance or direct me to a wiring diagram. Many thanks guys.


Fishman only have the basic wiring diagrams for common control layouts and such, so you'll have to improvise by using other diagrams in conjunction with it. In theory, if you find a wiring diagram that matches your guitar's, then you can look at that for your specific 5-way switch wiring, and the Fishman "Super Switch" diagram for the pickups.


----------



## oversteve

teof said:


> Guys, need some guidance. I have a HSH guitar with as normal 5 way switch. Single vol and tone. I have a set of open core fishman humbuckers. Is it possible to install the fishmans? I wasn't able to find a wiring diagram on fisman site other than one that is using a 5-Position 4P5T “Super Switch”. My 5 way looks like this https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://img.cesdeals.com/products/1/1/9/119288/119288-4_wmk.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.cesdeals.com/product/5-way-selector-electric-guitar-pickup-switches-toggle-lever-switch-black-musical-stringed-instruments-guitar-parts--accessories-119288&docid=Zk_m25jRewFiRM&tbnid=MkBVezhW9JWq-M:&vet=10ahUKEwjfrY3Rs73kAhVFILcAHeYcBI4QMwjAAShFMEU..i&w=1001&h=1001&bih=657&biw=1366&q=5 way pickup switch&ved=0ahUKEwjfrY3Rs73kAhVFILcAHeYcBI4QMwjAAShFMEU&iact=mrc&uact=8.
> 
> Will be grateful if anyone of you could provide me with some guidance or direct me to a wiring diagram. Many thanks guys.



you can wire it in exactly the same way as 3 way switch, but the switch positions 2-3-4 will all work as the middle position on 3-way switch with both pups enabled


----------



## klnol

Greetings Fishman fans! Wondering if anyone has experienced the following (read through this entire thread yesterday and didn't see anything similar). Got a sweet deal on a set of Modern 7s. Dropped them into my ESP NT7B, replacing the EMGs that came stock. Stoked on my 1st successful solder/wire job (finally brought the proper tools which made all the difference!). It's a 1 Vol, 1 Tone, 3-way switch set up - I have the voice toggle on the Tone push pull. Everything seems to be working, pickups give a consistent reading on a multimeter, all switching works, and they're nice and quiet. Problem is, the neck pickup seems to have a fuller, possibly louder output than the neck. I've played with pickup height, but it seems beyond that. It is way more noticeable on the clean channel of my Mesa mk5 25. On hi-gain channel 2 it seems more balanced. Is this just eq/tone perception i'm hearing, or do you think there's a mistake in my wiring that could be causing this? I've been over and over the wiring, and it seems correct. Any info would be appreciated!


----------



## diagrammatiks

the neck has to be way low. it's much baser then the bridge.
but that's not saying there could be a wiring problem.
is there any hum on the bridge? tap both coils are they both on?


----------



## klnol

diagrammatiks said:


> the neck has to be way low. it's much baser then the bridge.
> but that's not saying there could be a wiring problem.
> is there any hum on the bridge? tap both coils are they both on?


I'll crank that neck p/u way down later tonight - I suspect it's just that. No crazy hum anywhere, which is awesome. Pardon my ignorance with all things electronics, how do I tap the coils? I'm pretty certain I have the p/u's plugged in standard configuration - I do not have coil taps/HF Tilt/or the low gain setting activated for now. I'll probably try setting the low gain mode on the neck to see how that balances. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Quiet Coil

klnol said:


> how do I tap the coils?



In this case literally tap both sides (neck/bridge) of the pickup with something metal. I usually use the round side of a wrench (don’t want to accidentally gouge the cover with a screwdriver).

This is a good quick functional test after doing anything with the electronics before restringing.

P.S. I’d do it on a clean channel. 

P.P.S. The whole “Modern neck pickup too bassy” thing has been a common complaint in various threads as of late. Hasn’t really been a problem for me, but it sounds like you’re hearing the same thing as others.

P.P.P.S. The “coil tap” function on the pickups is actually a coil split (tap vs split is a whole different can of worms) that let’s you pick just one of the two coils in the pickup. This feature alone has me using Fishman over EMG in my ERG at the moment.


----------



## klnol

Noisy Humbucker said:


> In this case literally tap both sides (neck/bridge) of the pickup with something metal. I usually use the round side of a wrench (don’t want to accidentally gouge the cover with a screwdriver).
> 
> This is a good quick functional test after doing anything with the electronics before restringing.
> 
> P.S. I’d do it on a clean channel.
> 
> P.P.S. The whole “Modern neck pickup too bassy” thing has been a common complaint in various threads as of late. Hasn’t really been a problem for me, but it sounds like you’re hearing the same thing as others.
> 
> P.P.P.S. The “coil tap” function on the pickups is actually a coil split (tap vs split is a whole different can of worms) that let’s you pick just one of the two coils in the pickup. This feature alone has me using Fishman over EMG in my ERG at the moment.



Gotcha, thank you! That's what I thought "tapping" meant, but thinking these fishmans are active(ish?!), didn't think of that. I love rich, full, bassy neck p/u tones, so not a problem, but currently on the clean channel, it is an apparent, abrupt boost when switching from the bridge. I may coil split in the future, but since this guitar is primarily my hi-gain monster I may keep it simple. Always been surprised how great this guitar is over-all however - nice clear, punchy cleans. I had replaced the stock 81/707 with a 57/60 set shortly after getting it - nice pickups as well!


----------



## alekosh

Recently I installed my first 6 string modern set to my ltd401. I always have the neck pickup a bit lower. Noticed a slightly fuller/louder neck, but I attributed it to the gainy bridge and fuller sting vibration difference on neck position. All in all I was much more satisfied with their performance than my 81/60 especially in the clarity aspect therefore did not pay attention. I then installed a moderns 7 soapbar set to my schecter blackjack that had blackouts. It was during that installation that I noticed that schecter's factory setup of the blackouts had the neck mounted much more lower than the bridge soapbar (that was 5-6mm from the strings/blackouts bridge soapbar is much more thicker also). I installed the moderns with the schecter's factory mount screws on exactly the same heights as stock. My moderns are way more balanced that way.


----------



## jco5055

Ok guys, maybe dumb question so forgive me.

Out of all the models (mainly thinking Modern vs Classic, but feel free to chime in with the others), which has the best clean sound? And/or do any do clean so well, that as a piezo user and lover you'd have the thought of "don't bother getting a piezo equipped guitar in the future if you're going to install X pickup"?


----------



## diagrammatiks

jco5055 said:


> Ok guys, maybe dumb question so forgive me.
> 
> Out of all the models (mainly thinking Modern vs Classic, but feel free to chime in with the others), which has the best clean sound? And/or do any do clean so well, that as a piezo user and lover you'd have the thought of "don't bother getting a piezo equipped guitar in the future if you're going to install X pickup"?



abasi. 

But you don’t really use a piezo first an electric clean sound. They don’t sound anything alike. 

I have 4 piezo guitars. It’s not really similar at all


----------



## jco5055

diagrammatiks said:


> abasi.
> 
> But you don’t really use a piezo first an electric clean sound. They don’t sound anything alike.
> 
> I have 4 piezo guitars. It’s not really similar at all



I have a piezo also, it was me being ignorant if somehow Fishmans can get that piezo like clean tone lol


----------



## juka

With Fishman having so much experience in piezo systems, mic'ing and simulating acoustics in live environments I still wonder when they will add a 4th voice mimicking a piezo / acoustic like sound to their Fluence pups.

My Fluence experience so far:

Moderns:
although I never liked ceramic pups before, the modern set instantly became my go to set for every guitar I got. Still missing the 3rd single coil voice most other Fluence have by now.

Townsends:
which I on the one hand liked even better than the moderns due to there more brutal distorted sounds and the addition of a clean single coil 3rd voice, but on the other hand had to throw out of my guitar soon again because I always kept reaching for the tone knob as they always felt like it was accidentally turned halfway down. I still hope that one day they bring out a 7 string version with a switch to turn off the treble compensation for his overly bright Framus signature guitar so that you can use it on more balanced sounding guitars too ;-)

Keith Merrows:
Being a huge fan of EMG57/66 I always hoped for Fishman to issue their take on these pups. After installing a KM7 set recently in a mahogany/maple top guitar I'm more than happy to report that they absolutely achieved that goal and more. Great set of pups!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

juka said:


> With Fishman having so much experience in piezo systems, mic'ing and simulating acoustics in live environments I still wonder when they will add a 4th voice mimicking a piezo / acoustic like sound to their Fluence pups.
> 
> My Fluence experience so far:
> 
> Moderns:
> although I never liked ceramic pups before, the modern set instantly became my go to set for every guitar I got. Still missing the 3rd single coil voice most other Fluence have by now.
> 
> Townsends:
> which I on the one hand liked even better than the moderns due to there more brutal distorted sounds and the addition of a clean single coil 3rd voice, but on the other hand had to throw out of my guitar soon again because I always kept reaching for the tone knob as they always felt like it was accidentally turned halfway down. I still hope that one day they bring out a 7 string version with a switch to turn off the treble compensation for his overly bright Framus signature guitar so that you can use it on more balanced sounding guitars too ;-)
> 
> Keith Merrows:
> Being a huge fan of EMG57/66 I always hoped for Fishman to issue their take on these pups. After installing a KM7 set recently in a mahogany/maple top guitar I'm more than happy to report that they absolutely achieved that goal and more. Great set of pups!



Yeah the Townsend Fluence is a miss for me. Feels like you are playing on old strings. Too bad, since it has a really nice low end. Aren't the Merrows supposed to be a darker Classic V2?


----------



## juka

Only had the chance to try out the classics for a few minutes quite some time ago even before there were the open cores, so I can't really say how they compare to the Merrows.
But since having the Merrows I actually wonder how a pair of Open Core Classics 7 would sound in direct comparison, especially since they offer the classics with different bobbin colors. I mean this matt grey, almost sandblasted, industrial look of the Merrows looks cool, but not on every guitar and as most matt finishes doesn't seem very durable.


----------



## lewis

new Andertons video where Chappers using a blindfold tries to work out where an assortment of guitars are made just by their feel.

got to the Koch signature with his Fishmans and he thought it sounded and played terrible - claiming the pickups sounded "Cheap" 

pretty much what Ive been maintaining. If you take away their hype and go purely on ears, the Fishmans are overrated. (they are great but no better than hundreds of other options)

thought it was interesting


----------



## diagrammatiks

lewis said:


> new Andertons video where Chappers using a blindfold tries to work out where an assortment of guitars are made just by their feel.
> 
> got to the Koch signature with his Fishmans and he thought it sounded and played terrible - claiming the pickups sounded "Cheap"
> 
> pretty much what Ive been maintaining. If you take away their hype and go purely on ears, the Fishmans are overrated. (they are great but no better than hundreds of other options)
> 
> thought it was interesting



hmm chappers. that's who we should trust.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Then Koch plays em and sounds conpletely marvelous.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

IF that video doesnt prove that Fishman are the best pickups, I’d have to think one may be in denial about these revolutionary actives....there’s nothing even close, literally. It may be dependent on which set you get, for example, metal players may want the KSE or SRC set or the modern ceramics, jazz players may want the warmer classic sets, but there IS a set for EVERYONE. It is an expensive endeavor however, so the question really remains, not are fishman the best, because that is obvious, but are they WORTH their price? 

Anyway thats my 2 cents FWIW


----------



## KnightBrolaire

diagrammatiks said:


> hmm chappers. that's who we should trust.


Exactly, never trust white peope who had dreadlocks in their 30s.


----------



## dhgrind

KnightBrolaire said:


> Exactly, never trust white peope who had dreadlocks in their 30s.



or just white people with dreadlocks...


----------



## SlamLiguez

dhgrind said:


> or just white people with dreadlocks...


Hey man, Randy Blythes grinch-fingers get a pass alright lol


----------



## KnightBrolaire

dhgrind said:


> or just white people with dreadlocks...


I mean I can give a pass if you do it when you're younger like say under mid 20s, but come on, by your 30s you should know that's going to look fucking dumb.


SlamLiguez said:


> Hey man, Randy Blythes grinch-fingers get a pass alright lol


no one gets a pass if they're past their 20s lol


----------



## lewis

diagrammatiks said:


> hmm chappers. that's who we should trust.





KnightBrolaire said:


> Exactly, never trust white peope who had dreadlocks in their 30s.





dhgrind said:


> or just white people with dreadlocks...



Funny. I dont see you guys with a hugely successful guitar brand, being pretty well known youtube celebrity with a good partnership with a huge music store, and being in a decent rock band.

To just disregard his opinion because it contradicts your hype for a brand comes across way worse than the look of someone with dreadlocks (that he doesnt have anymore and hasnt for years - and who cares what his hair style is ffs?)

I said i found it interesting. I also said fishmans are great but really no better than any great 3rd party pickup brand to my ears and a respectable professional agrees based purely on ears (the most important thing)

I swear some of the shit on this forum. Why make it personal about the dudes looks?


----------



## mpexus

lewis said:


> Why make it personal about the dudes looks?



Probably made by people fully Tattoed with the most awfull and obnoxious crap like Bands Names or Guitar Brands or the word Family... People are just like that.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> Funny. I dont see you guys with a hugely successful guitar brand, being pretty well known youtube celebrity with a good partnership with a huge music store, and being in a decent rock band.
> 
> To just disregard his opinion because it contradicts your hype for a brand comes across way worse than the look of someone with dreadlocks (that he doesnt have anymore and hasnt for years - and who cares what his hair style is ffs?)
> 
> I said i found it interesting. I also said fishmans are great but really no better than any great 3rd party pickup brand to my ears and a respectable professional agrees based purely on ears (the most important thing)
> 
> I swear some of the shit on this forum. Why make it personal about the dudes looks?


perhaps you've heard of the logical fallacy known as appeal to authority? because that's exactly what you're doing by trying to act like chapper's opinion is more valuable than ours simply because he's in the music biz. Why the fuck would I trust someone who's primary job is to sell gear over people like USMarine that actually dropped money on the pickups? Plus as diagrammatiks mentioned, Greg Koch gets great tones out of the pickups, so it's not the pickups, it's the end user, like any gear.
Tone is subjective.
Most people on sso know that I love passives and detest actives but even I have said the fishmans deserved the hype. They do something very different from any other active on the market.


----------



## dhgrind

lewis said:


> Funny. I dont see you guys with a hugely successful guitar brand, being pretty well known youtube celebrity with a good partnership with a huge music store, and being in a decent rock band.
> 
> To just disregard his opinion because it contradicts your hype for a brand comes across way worse than the look of someone with dreadlocks (that he doesnt have anymore and hasnt for years - and who cares what his hair style is ffs?)
> 
> I said i found it interesting. I also said fishmans are great but really no better than any great 3rd party pickup brand to my ears and a respectable professional agrees based purely on ears (the most important thing)
> 
> I swear some of the shit on this forum. Why make it personal about the dudes looks?



Someone’s salty.


----------



## diagrammatiks

lewis said:


> Funny. I dont see you guys with a hugely successful guitar brand, being pretty well known youtube celebrity with a good partnership with a huge music store, and being in a decent rock band.
> 
> To just disregard his opinion because it contradicts your hype for a brand comes across way worse than the look of someone with dreadlocks (that he doesnt have anymore and hasnt for years - and who cares what his hair style is ffs?)
> 
> I said i found it interesting. I also said fishmans are great but really no better than any great 3rd party pickup brand to my ears and a respectable professional agrees based purely on ears (the most important thing)
> 
> I swear some of the shit on this forum. Why make it personal about the dudes looks?




Actually given your post history. It’s more an issue of if you believe it. It’s probably wrong. Chappers is just icing on the cake.


----------



## lewis

Way to sidestep the fact you guys mocked a dudes appearance because he thought fishmans sounded cheap


----------



## lewis

diagrammatiks said:


> Actually given your post history. It’s more an issue of if you believe it. It’s probably wrong. Chappers is just icing on the cake.


Now i remember why i have you on ignore


----------



## lewis

dhgrind said:


> Someone’s salty.


?
Not really. Just defending a dude from getting his appearance bashed for absolutely no reason whatsoever


----------



## diagrammatiks

lewis said:


> Now i remember why i have you on ignore



poor bby


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

So, the Townsend set is a no-go? I'm getting my PRS employee guitar pretty soon and was looking forward to doing a swap, but if they're crap then I'm not going to invest in 'em.


----------



## Strobe

lewis said:


> new Andertons video where Chappers using a blindfold tries to work out where an assortment of guitars are made just by their feel.
> 
> got to the Koch signature with his Fishmans and he thought it sounded and played terrible - claiming the pickups sounded "Cheap"
> 
> pretty much what Ive been maintaining. If you take away their hype and go purely on ears, the Fishmans are overrated. (they are great but no better than hundreds of other options)
> 
> thought it was interesting



The Koch set is way different than the rest of the lineup. I own the Koch set - along with moderns, classics, Abasi, strat. They sound good to my ears, but the least good of all the models. I think the whole line is superb - although it doesn't capture as wide of a range of tones as you can get from other manufacturers, so there is a good chance your absolute favorite is going to be something else.


----------



## Strobe

Captain Butterscotch said:


> So, the Townsend set is a no-go? I'm getting my PRS employee guitar pretty soon and was looking forward to doing a swap, but if they're crap then I'm not going to invest in 'em.



It's good, it's just darker than the moderns. If you prefer a smoother high end, they are sublime. If you like a lot of hair in your high end, it's a bad choice. My bandmate plays them - they sound great. I just like a lot of highs. More than these offer.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Strobe said:


> It's good, it's just darker than the moderns. If you prefer a smoother high end, they are sublime. If you like a lot of hair in your high end, it's a bad choice. My bandmate plays them - they sound great. I just like a lot of highs. More than these offer.


They need to make all of the 6-string exclusive sets NOT 6-string exclusive. I only play 7s anymore really. The KSE set is especially one that needs to be ported over.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Captain Butterscotch said:


> So, the Townsend set is a no-go? I'm getting my PRS employee guitar pretty soon and was looking forward to doing a swap, but if they're crap then I'm not going to invest in 'em.



These sets are all derived some a core set of sounds..but they sound different enough that you'll probably have to try a few to see if you like them. 

I don't really like the moderns at all. But I love the abasi and the classics.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Ok. I think I have tried most of the Ceramic (on bridge) 6 string sets. And I think, while they are based from the modern, they have big differences. Listing them from least liked to most liked.

Kiilswitch Engage set- It's just too tight on V1. There's barely any bass in there and you get a big midrange hump like an EMG 85. But unlike the 85, this one has highs and some bite. V2 is huge sounding but it's too fat. I don't like it for distorted sounds, it's much better for clean. Single coil sound is one of the best ones like the Tosin. 

Devin Townsend set- This one just lasted a month in my guitar. I really like the sag V1 has in the lows. But the highs are really rolled of. This would be great for really bright guitars, but it just didnt jive with my mahogany guitar. The single coil sound is a bit duller too. But again, this could work depending on your guitar.

Adlers- If these came in black, I would be all over them. Con is that you have two high gain voices that are not that much different from each other. V1 has a lot of low mid bark with a looser low end. V2 is just like V1's EQ but more compressed.

Moderns- The basic one. V1 is you like it or you dont. It's tight for sure, but it has a lot of mids and crunch in the treble. bass is tight but doesnt have the sub lows that an emg 81 would have. And I think that's why some people are disappointed by it. They read it sounds just like an 81 then they look for that bass that isn't there. The Moderns barely clip too so you dont get that "clak clak clak" in the lows when you are chugging on an EMG. I love it since it works for my kind of death metal. Those mids just push the amp and they have a lot of cut and bass doesn't get flabby no matter what tuning you use. Only gripe is I dont like that HUGE bass on V2. 

Tosin Abasi set- Now this is my favorite. It has a more relaxed or flatter midrange compared to the moderns but retains the highs and cut. What I like about it is that it has bass and low mids that the Moderns lack. It's still tight but it has more give and room to breathe. I may even think it is a bit brighter than the moderns since it has some sizzle around the 1K range and I have to tame down my treble a notch when using the Abasi. V2 is lower in gain but the eq is sweet and balanced and it doesnt have the overbearing bass the V2s in the modern and killswitch has. It's totaaly useable since it sounds like a comparable dimarzio or bareknuckle that Tosin would use. It's awesome clean and overdriven with just the right eq. And the crowning jewel is the single coil tones that other's have already mentioned. Installing the abasi set is just multiplying your guitar's versatility ten fold. 

Now, I want to try the Carpenter 6 string set since the demos sound different than the 7 and 8 string demos.


----------



## Endnote

Has anyone tried the Modern Ceramic in the neck? Would like to know how it compares to the modern alnico. I'm looking at doing it for one of my guitars.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Endnote said:


> Has anyone tried the Modern Ceramic in the neck? Would like to know how it compares to the modern alnico. I'm looking at doing it for one of my guitars.


I didn't notice that much of a difference really but the slight difference was one I liked. It cut better and wasn't overly warm like the alnico was. The big difference was having the alnico in the bridge. I MUCH preferred the alnico in the bridge than the ceramic. It was way less harsh sounding.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Thanks to everybody for the helpful input! Might skip over them for now until I can try them first.


----------



## mpexus

This guy has recently been making comparision videos. From what I hear on them I prefer the EMGs on all videos, but they dont seem all that diferent to be honest.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Hmmm the classic V2 sounds a bit closer to the JH.


----------



## Lozek

Really intersting comparisons, I just wish he would have volume matched them as the V1 voice is way louder than V2/EMG (apart from the last video). Interesting to see how close some of them get, you can kind of see where Fishman are aiming their offerings to compete but with extra voicings. I'm still hearing more pick chirp on the EMG's, which was my own personal reason for stepping away from them about 10 years ago.


----------



## Albake21

The big problem with comparison videos is that under high gain, many pickup recordings either sound the same or can be EQ'd to sound the same. What really makes a difference it how it sounds live/jamming through YOUR setup and YOUR guitars. Sadly there is no real way to do this without just trying a bunch of pickups yourself.


----------



## Choop

I like how much more open the Fishman pickups sound in V1, but there is also a good amount of high end present--at least with the classics.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

The classics are the brightest fluence pups around. I havent seen or heard youtube demos of people chugging riffs on V1 except for the demos above. Most people prefer V2. From these demos, I like V1 more.


----------



## lewis

Albake21 said:


> The big problem with comparison videos is that under high gain, many pickup recordings either sound the same or can be EQ'd to sound the same. What really makes a difference it how it sounds live/jamming through YOUR setup and YOUR guitars. Sadly there is no real way to do this without just trying a bunch of pickups yourself.


Absolutely this!

Ive said this before but its why whenever i do risk posting an opinion on this forum, i always add "for my playing and my needs, its not what i want" etc
And why i get rattled at the people who are blindly bigging up Fishman through thick and thin and legit trying to claim if you dont think they are amazing - you are wrong.

Funny way of viewing opinions but there we go haha.

Ive kept my Moderns for album tracking only. But the in the room/live mix context with my rig and play styles - EMGs just work better. At least i can easily swap the pups in and out with quick connect


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

That’s a great point about “demo” videos - you have to take into account the recording, the player, their rig, their interface etc...... so its not like a “true” demo done by a professional company in a closed environment with set controls and known variables...

HOWEVER, with that in mind, that Fishman video with Tosin and Reyes was very revealing, and the Carpenter set is extremely impressive, especially for metal. Although the video doesn’t show the SRC obviously its for Tosin and Reyes, the SRC set sounded amazing to me, beyond comparison. I would imagine however, with the versatility I’ve seen, and all of the options available (voicings, gain, H/F tilts, split coiling) is beyond comparison.

Now, if you like THAT, or if thats what you want, is another story...just like the rig youre playing through. So maybe Fishman did make the biggest leap in pickups since Les Paul....that doesnt mean its for you.

So just play what you love, and let others do the same...live and let live, or let die....however it goes lol


----------



## Tisca

Tosin set + RG2228?
I'd have two pots in use only. Vol vol most likely.

"Push-pull Voice Selector pot for use in Volume or Tone position"
Are both vol and tone pots log pots in this set or actives in general?

Dealer site says "two vol + two p/p pots" included.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Both vol and tone pots were push pull in my set. Vol to go for v1 and v2. Tone for single coil v3.


----------



## dpm

I'm too lazy to search, what's the battery life like with the Fluences? I seem to recall someone, somewhere mentioning it wasn't great?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

150 hours. Significantly less hours than emg or blackouts.


----------



## dpm

Thanks!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yup. Especially sucks when you're sure one of your guitars has a short because i had to constantly replace batteries.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

dpm said:


> I'm too lazy to search, what's the battery life like with the Fluences? I seem to recall someone, somewhere mentioning it wasn't great?


TBH the ONLY drawback/negative to add to the con list of Fluence are they EAT 9v batteries like a kid eats candy, yet with that said, Fishman was clever and thought of the solution by offering two options for a rechargable/USB Li-ion alternative power source, which you can also play while charging plugged in.....so IF you have the rechargeable Fluence battery, its actually another pro now that I think about it relatively to that...


----------



## diagrammatiks

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. Especially sucks when you're sure one of your guitars has a short because i had to constantly replace batteries.



I just use a nine volt usb rechargeable lipo. They last forever.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

diagrammatiks said:


> I just use a nine volt usb rechargeable lipo. They last forever.



I mean i had a guitar that seemed to have fucked up wiring, so the battery drained constantly. I had to change batteries like once every two weeks. I couldn't figure it out.


----------



## pablometal

dpm said:


> I'm too lazy to search, what's the battery life like with the Fluences? I seem to recall someone, somewhere mentioning it wasn't great?


i use rechargeable batteries and they only last 1 day, just like EMG's. I always record stuff so my pc is always on and my guitar plugged to my interface.. i'm pretty sure if i unplug it it will last longer. IDK how much it would last just connected to an amplifier.


----------



## diagrammatiks

pablometal said:


> i use rechargeable batteries and they only last 1 day, just like EMG's. I always record stuff so my pc is always on and my guitar plugged to my interface.. i'm pretty sure if i unplug it it will last longer. IDK how much it would last just connected to an amplifier.



If you are going to leave your guitar plugged in it’s gonna drain. The best thing to do is get a kill switch stereo cable that you can lift the ground on. Or wire a switch. 
Although honestly if I were you I’d just use a rechargeable and leave the usb charger plugged in.


----------



## cip 123

Anyone used EMG and Fluence in the same guitar?

Got one of those Schecter Super Shredder 7's coming in and wanna chuck a fluence in the bridge


----------



## diagrammatiks

cip 123 said:


> Anyone used EMG and Fluence in the same guitar?
> 
> Got one of those Schecter Super Shredder 7's coming in and wanna chuck a fluence in the bridge



won’t really work. Or at least you can’t really cross the streams without some creative wiring. Actually you can’t combine them at all. Fluences need a bridge ground and emgs don’t use one.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

diagrammatiks said:


> I just use a nine volt usb rechargeable lipo. They last forever.


Can you link me to what you are using? I’m going through a 9v a week....and I tried a rechargeable 9v but it didnt work....amazon or something please?


----------



## dpm

diagrammatiks said:


> won’t really work. Or at least you can’t really cross the streams without some creative wiring. Actually you can’t combine them at all. Fluences need a bridge ground and emgs don’t use one.



You can have a bridge ground with EMG, they just work fine without


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Yeah you can mix an emg and fluence in one guitar. It's a pain to wire if you just want to change voices with the fluence on a 1 vol, 1 tone guitar. 

With the power concerns, yeah they do eat batteries a bit but not so bad. You hear the sound degrade when the battery is pumping lower than 7.8 volts. It is very obvious since you lose a lot of low end and it gets trebly. 

The fluence recheargeable battery is going for cheap now and it is easy to wire. I suggest doing that. Since even though the warning light is on the red, you still get a uniform output of 8.5 volts or something. And they last a bit better vs duracels.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yeah you can mix an emg and fluence in one guitar. It's a pain to wire if you just want to change voices with the fluence on a 1 vol, 1 tone guitar.
> 
> With the power concerns, yeah they do eat batteries a bit but not so bad. You hear the sound degrade when the battery is pumping lower than 7.8 volts. It is very obvious since you lose a lot of low end and it gets trebly.
> 
> The fluence recheargeable battery is going for cheap now and it is easy to wire. I suggest doing that. Since even though the warning light is on the red, you still get a uniform output of 8.5 volts or something. And they last a bit better vs duracels.


The strat backplate one doesnt fit on the ibanez RG space, its too big.....do you think light routing is worth installing it over just getting a rechargeable 9 volt? Because my tone pot is occupying the other cavity....so i dont know where i would put the other fishman usb battery?


----------



## mrdm53

Has anyone tried Fishman Classics in 8 string? I'm kinda torn between this and Merrow's set for 8 to replace my Duncan Solar Pickups. Anyway my guitar has Ash body for reference


Note: I'm looking for passive sized pickups, so neither Tosins, moderns, or SRC set is not acceptable.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

mrdm53 said:


> Has anyone tried Fishman Classics in 8 string? I'm kinda torn between this and Merrow's set for 8 to replace my Duncan Solar Pickups. Anyway my guitar has Ash body for reference
> 
> 
> Note: I'm looking for passive sized pickups, so neither Tosins, moderns, or SRC set is not acceptable.



Well the neck is exactly the same on both sets so take that out of the equation. It's all bridge. Even then, the Merrow is just a tweaked Classic according to official statements. I find the Merrow set to be a tad too fizzy for me but I haven't tried the Classics so I don't know if it's worse. Might sit well in an 8-string actually. My KM sets have all been in 7-strings.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Not to be a pain, but can someone link me to what rechargeable 9v batteries are you using? I bought one and its not even powering the pickups, so should I get like Duracell or energizer?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Not to be a pain, but can someone link me to what rechargeable 9v batteries are you using? I bought one and its not even powering the pickups, so should I get like Duracell or energizer?



LP 9V Rechargeable Battery Pack, 2-Pack 9V 600mAh Li-ion USB Battery for Alarms, Wireless Microphones, Smoke Detectors, Toys, Flashlights & More https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SWJNBW5/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


----------



## hensh!n

I threw a set of classics into my Edwards Horizon a couple years back. Very clear and articulate pickups, I could hear every note in a chord. However, I didn’t care for any of the alternate voicings. The Hot Rodded PAF sounded too muddy for me, and the Clear Airy Neck tone was unusable for me due to the mid scoop. Also, I found the pickups to be noisier than the passive pickups I was using before them (JBE Two/Tones). 

Was thinking about trying a set of Moderns though, especially with the low-gain option. Does anyone have any experience with using the low-gain option on the Moderns? Would like to hear about your experience.


----------



## pablometal

diagrammatiks said:


> If you are going to leave your guitar plugged in it’s gonna drain. The best thing to do is get a kill switch stereo cable that you can lift the ground on. Or wire a switch.
> Although honestly if I were you I’d just use a rechargeable and leave the usb charger plugged in.



i'm just always charging one battery lol


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

hensh!n said:


> I threw a set of classics into my Edwards Horizon a couple years back. Very clear and articulate pickups, I could hear every note in a chord. However, I didn’t care for any of the alternate voicings. The Hot Rodded PAF sounded too muddy for me, and the Clear Airy Neck tone was unusable for me due to the mid scoop. Also, I found the pickups to be noisier than the passive pickups I was using before them (JBE Two/Tones).
> 
> Was thinking about trying a set of Moderns though, especially with the low-gain option. Does anyone have any experience with using the low-gain option on the Moderns? Would like to hear about your experience.


I dont have the moderns, I have the Carpenter set. However, since they are based on the moderns (with slight more output and attack) AND I installed the modern(6db gain+treble boost)/classic gain (no boost) switch, I can say this: its only a 6db gain, but I hear a huge difference when I have either voicing (passive or active), especially with Clean tones, it makes the pick attack almost extremely noticeable brittle if you have the treble too high.....the thing with fluence you gotta watch IS the treble, because it has such a clear spectrum, the high end doesnt lose any sustain or response. So if you want to drop to classic(low gain/-6db/no boost) gain then you will notice it immediately. It’s a little less noticeable with super hi gain, but then again, I’m using SRC and super hi gain Mesa rigs, but even then, there is a slight difference in a good way...theres a lot more clarity with the boost on

If youre wondering whether to install it or not, I would recommend it if you want to get everything out of the Fluence, which I do....


----------



## brandon7s

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Not to be a pain, but can someone link me to what rechargeable 9v batteries are you using? I bought one and its not even powering the pickups, so should I get like Duracell or energizer?



I've been using these with my Tosin Abasi pickups. They work great; last a LOT longer than traditional alkaline batteries. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078JMHHF8/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


----------



## MASS DEFECT

^that's amazing! 800mah for a rechargeable 9v!!!


----------



## lewis

brandon7s said:


> I've been using these with my Tosin Abasi pickups. They work great; last a LOT longer than traditional alkaline batteries.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078JMHHF8/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


Holy shit.

If i used these for my EMGs i wouldnt need to change for years haha.
Need to find them in the UK


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

You know, there was two rated at 850mah....would those be even more powerful, they are saying they are equivalent to an average of 8.4V alkaline...so do you think go with 800 or 850mah???

9 Volt Battery with Charger, Kratax 4-Packs 850mAh Li-ion Rechargeable Batteries and 2Slot Charger, for Smoke Alarms,Cameras,Walkie Talkies,Toy Remotes,Microphones and Other Devices https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TYMB39W/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


----------



## diagrammatiks

Either is fine. Those ma numbers are pretty much made up anyway. They’ll all give more capacity then a regular 9 volt.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

They may be offering more capacity but these rechargable batteries will not operate at 9v but somewhere between 6-8.4v which could affect the performance of the pickups. I just ordered myself one of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FV0U5WG/?tag=sevenstringorg-20 , they don't get the best reviews consistently but I don't mind trying them out as so far these are the only ones I found which should actually operate at close to 9v or above.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

BearOnGuitar said:


> They may be offering more capacity but these rechargable batteries will not operate at 9v but somewhere between 6-8.4v which could affect the performance of the pickups. I just ordered myself one of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FV0U5WG/?tag=sevenstringorg-20 , they don't get the best reviews consistently but I don't mind trying them out as so far these are the only ones I found which should actually operate at close to 9v or above.


Wow thats impressive....please , if you dont mind, how did you find these? Because i went through so many searches on amazon but these look amazing


----------



## diagrammatiks

BearOnGuitar said:


> They may be offering more capacity but these rechargable batteries will not operate at 9v but somewhere between 6-8.4v which could affect the performance of the pickups. I just ordered myself one of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FV0U5WG/?tag=sevenstringorg-20 , they don't get the best reviews consistently but I don't mind trying them out as so far these are the only ones I found which should actually operate at close to 9v or above.



here’s the thing. The Fishman powerpack isn’t a 9v cell. It’s 4.2v lipo run through a voltage doubler. 
So if you like the sound of your pups at 9v or above that’s cool. But Fishman designed these things to run between 8-8.4


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

diagrammatiks said:


> here’s the thing. The Fishman powerpack isn’t a 9v cell. It’s 4.2v lipo run through a voltage doubler.
> So if you like the sound of your pups at 9v or above that’s cool. But Fishman designed these things to run between 8-8.4


I was about to ask that very question
So then go with the 800/850 mah one linked earlier right?


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Wow thats impressive....please , if you dont mind, how did you find these? Because i went through so many searches on amazon but these look amazing



I was just searching really hard for the best possible options and I came across these. I'll be sure to report back on how it works out.



diagrammatiks said:


> here’s the thing. The Fishman powerpack isn’t a 9v cell. It’s 4.2v lipo run through a voltage doubler.
> So if you like the sound of your pups at 9v or above that’s cool. But Fishman designed these things to run between 8-8.4



That's good to know, I wasn't able to find any info on the voltage of the Fishman battery. I met Ken Susi some years ago and he ensured me the pickups would not sound any different even at 18v because their preamp design is entirely different and can't be compared to the preamps of active pickups. Still their pickups can be safely operated up to 18v so eventually I want to try it out and record a comparison myself.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I was about to ask that very question
> So then go with the 800/850 mah one linked earlier right?



Higher mah will provide a longer lasing charge, the product I linked earlier has a much smaller charge but slightly higher voltage output. Maybe I will order one of the 8.4v ones as well and compare them against each other.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

swapped out my moderns for classics. So far I'm not a fan but maybe once I spend some more time playing with them I'll like em more.


----------



## Lozek

KnightBrolaire said:


> swapped out my moderns for classics. So far I'm not a fan but maybe once I spend some more time playing with them I'll like em more.



I just did the same in my main player and the change totally suits my tastes, still got Moderns in my stage back-up though.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

KnightBrolaire said:


> swapped out my moderns for classics. So far I'm not a fan but maybe once I spend some more time playing with them I'll like em more.



What are you not liking with the classics? Voice 2 sounds like a JB.


----------



## Rev2010

The new Schecter I picked up (SLS C7 Elite FR) has the Modern's installed. I swapped the neck into the bridge since I'm not a fan of the ceramic sound, and it definitely had that sound, and they're pretty good, very emg like but a a bit brighter. Only thing I found that I'm not liking is palm mutes don't djent as much - and I'll add I hate how that term now means something totally different. Anyhow palm mutes don't seem to have as much low end push. I'm thinking this would be good for recording but for live playing I feel it can be a little weaker than desired. Of course I guess I could always crank up the bass on the amp but wanted to ask here if anyone else has tried the alnico Modern in the bridge and found the same.


Rev.


----------



## Velokki

Rev2010 said:


> The new Schecter I picked up (SLS C7 Elite FR) has the Modern's installed. I swapped the neck into the bridge since I'm not a fan of the ceramic sound, and it definitely had that sound, and they're pretty good, very emg like but a a bit brighter. Only thing I found that I'm not liking is palm mutes don't djent as much - and I'll add I hate how that term now means something totally different. Anyhow palm mutes don't seem to have as much low end push. I'm thinking this would be good for recording but for live playing I feel it can be a little weaker than desired. Of course I guess I could always crank up the bass on the amp but wanted to ask here if anyone else has tried the alnico Modern in the bridge and found the same.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Totally get what you mean! Like you can't "choke out" the pickups under the pressure of your palm and throttle them. The EMGs you can choke down and get 'em really chugging, but Fishmans are more like "Oh, so you're pressing the strings against us? Fine, surely we can compensate for that".


----------



## cardinal

Rev2010 said:


> The new Schecter I picked up (SLS C7 Elite FR) has the Modern's installed. I swapped the neck into the bridge since I'm not a fan of the ceramic sound, and it definitely had that sound, and they're pretty good, very emg like but a a bit brighter. Only thing I found that I'm not liking is palm mutes don't djent as much - and I'll add I hate how that term now means something totally different. Anyhow palm mutes don't seem to have as much low end push. I'm thinking this would be good for recording but for live playing I feel it can be a little weaker than desired. Of course I guess I could always crank up the bass on the amp but wanted to ask here if anyone else has tried the alnico Modern in the bridge and found the same.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Maybe the low-end cut is why I liked the Alnico Modern so much in the bridge position? I mostly use 8-strings and a Fortin 33 boosting an old Marshall, so my ears have adjusted to a pretty substantial low cut (which is necessary to keep the low F# tight and bright sounding). 

Probably not helpful, but maybe just give it some time for your ears to adjust to what it's doing? I hated the 33 the first few times I used it because it seemed really thin sounding, especially if I really pressed hard for a palm mute. But I gave it some more time and now I love it and really don't like having a lot of low end in my tone any more.


----------



## Rev2010

cardinal said:


> But I gave it some more time and now I love it and really don't like having a lot of low end in my tone any more.



Oh no.... I like my palm mutes to have that kickass push!  Well if anything I could always take out the pickups, wiring, and pots and install EMG 707's which are my main pickup. For my 8-string it's EMG 808's. Everyone hates them but I love 'em. We'll see, will definitely at least wait till I pass the return period on the guitar. Not planning to return it as I love it, but if it pops up on Stupid Deal and I can get even more off or if B.C Rich does release a 7-string Floyd Rose 26.5" scale Mockingbird, Virgin, or Warlock then yeah I'll be grabbing one lol. Thanks to you and Velokki for responding!


Rev.


----------



## diagrammatiks

KnightBrolaire said:


> swapped out my moderns for classics. So far I'm not a fan but maybe once I spend some more time playing with them I'll like em more.



my initial reaction was like this is weird. and then a week later. this is awesome.


----------



## Rev2010

So last night I did a test where I recorded a looped riff with my custom 7-string Jackson Kelly with EMG 707's and also with the new Schecter SLS C7 Elite with the alnico Fluence Modern in the bridge position. Being the Modern's are a bit brighter than the EMG's I disabled the _very_ slight high end EQ boost in my Helix Native patch for the Modern's tracks. I also raised the bass on each of the two amps in my patch by 1db each for the Modern tracks. I matched the volume, gave it a listen, thought I slightly preferred the EMG's. But, then I intentionally walked away while it was looping and came back without looking at the screens so I could blindly listen and see if I could determine what was what. To my surprise the section I had now thought was the EMG and sounded slightly better turned out to be the Fishman! I walked away and did it again and came back and I'll say they sound nearly identical!! I did find the Fishman to have just a tad more of the "chainsaw" growl which I love. With the bass kicked up a decibel on the amps for the Fishman's I actually found palm mutes/fast muted picking to also actually have a little more oomph. This surprised me as I originally felt the Modern's lacking a little in the palm mute air push department.

So, I'm definitely keeping these pickups. They are so incredibly close to EMG 707's with just a teeny tiny bit of EQ'ing. I find it funny how so many EMG haters are lauding these pickups. I know there are other subtle differences but many people commenting on comparison videos also say they sound so close. As an EMG fan that makes me very happy.


Rev.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

They are close man, I agree with your disbelief lol


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Yep. With my moderns, I eq my amp to have more bass like a notch and a half. It's fun since you can put gobs of bass in there and it wont flub out and the midrange growl stays the same.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yep. With my moderns, I eq my amp to have more bass like a notch and a half. It's fun since you can put gobs of bass in there and it wont flub out and the midrange growl stays the same.


I love em man
I mean mine are SLIGHTLY different obviously but same thing , no flub and no fidelity loss


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I love em man
> I mean mine are SLIGHTLY different obviously but same thing , no flub and no fidelity loss



As for me, I like a tiny bit of flub. You know, the good looseness you hear from good passives. That's why I currently prefer the Tosins since they have a good amount of bass and low mids. 

Moderns are good too. Second fave. i just dial my amp to have more sag when the moderns are in play.


----------



## hensh!n

I’ve read a few reviews that talk about how the Modern Alnico’s are noisy compared to the Ceramics (which are apparently silent comparatively). Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Rev2010

hensh!n said:


> I’ve read a few reviews that talk about how the Modern Alnico’s are noisy compared to the Ceramics (which are apparently silent comparatively). Has anyone else experienced this?



I haven't noticed any noise, at least nothing that would stand out compared to EMG or Jackson passives. I'll turn off the noise gate and do a comparison next time I plug it in - most likely tonight, latest tomorrow night.


Rev.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

hensh!n said:


> I’ve read a few reviews that talk about how the Modern Alnico’s are noisy compared to the Ceramics (which are apparently silent comparatively). Has anyone else experienced this?



Yep. My Alnico Modern neck is noisier than the Ceramic bridge which is dead silent. I've got two guitars that exhibit the same behavior. While my Tosins are both silent on all positions, except in single coil mode. 

i think however, it is because of my wiring. I don't know. I have to check it out. The Tosins are easier to wire than the Moderns with all the splits I did.


----------



## Rev2010

hensh!n said:


> I’ve read a few reviews that talk about how the Modern Alnico’s are noisy compared to the Ceramics



Just tested this tonight. Yes the alnico has a hum that is about 50-60% louder than my guitar with EMG 707's and my production Jackson Kelly 6-string with Jackson passive pickups. Still not bad at all and easily silenced by my noise gate, and the Modern sounds a bit louder than the others, probably not much louder but perceived since it's a bit brighter. The ceramic Modern that I moved into the neck position has zero hum. None whatsoever.


Rev.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Lozek said:


> I just did the same in my main player and the change totally suits my tastes, still got Moderns in my stage back-up though.





MASS DEFECT said:


> What are you not liking with the classics? Voice 2 sounds like a JB.


Voice 1 seems honkier, more like what I remember the JB being like tbh. I quite like V2 since it's chunkier sounding and doesn't seem to have the honk. It's perfect for nailing that 90s Carcass tone or Nile's BSOV tones imo
TLDR: V2 on the moderns and classics are where it's at.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

KnightBrolaire said:


> Voice 1 seems honkier, more like what I remember the JB being like tbh. I quite like V2 since it's chunkier sounding and doesn't seem to have the honk. It's perfect for nailing that 90s Carcass tone or Nile's BSOV tones imo
> TLDR: V2 on the moderns and classics are where it's at.



Nice. I might just get a classic bridge and just use V2 for my Jackson COW6. If you like V2 on the classic and moderns, you will definitely love the v2 on the Tosins. They just have that perfect balance in eq!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MASS DEFECT said:


> Nice. I might just get a classic bridge and just use V2 for my Jackson COW6. If you like V2 on the classic and moderns, you will definitely love the v2 on the Tosins. They just have that perfect balance in eq!


yeah tosins are definitely on the list after I test the devy set. maybe I'll try the adler set as well.


----------



## ManWithDaPlan

Been a while since I been here, but I just recently ordered the pair of fluence Tosin signature 8 pickups. Gonna be replacing the stock pickups in an Agile 8 string. I have never had active pickups cause most of the stuff I play is clean and my limited experience with EMGs had led me to believe that active cleans sound like dogshit, but people have sworn by these and ive heard good clips so here I am.

Anyways, I have a three way selector. from what ive been led to believe from the install guide, with a 3 way it will be passive mode by default selecting the same way. pos1 = bridge humbucker, pos2=bridge+neck and pos3= neck. if I pull the knob for voice 1, those all become active instead of passive, and the knob for voice 3 is same thing but coil tapped. Are the pickups in voice 2(the default one) truly passive? thought it was one way or the other. and if so, does being in voice 2 drain the battery? If my battery is drained, does voice 2 still work?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

ManWithDaPlan said:


> Been a while since I been here, but I just recently ordered the pair of fluence Tosin signature 8 pickups. Gonna be replacing the stock pickups in an Agile 8 string. I have never had active pickups cause most of the stuff I play is clean and my limited experience with EMGs had led me to believe that active cleans sound like dogshit, but people have sworn by these and ive heard good clips so here I am.
> 
> Anyways, I have a three way selector. from what ive been led to believe from the install guide, with a 3 way it will be passive mode by default selecting the same way. pos1 = bridge humbucker, pos2=bridge+neck and pos3= neck. if I pull the knob for voice 1, those all become active instead of passive, and the knob for voice 3 is same thing but coil tapped. Are the pickups in voice 2(the default one) truly passive? thought it was one way or the other. and if so, does being in voice 2 drain the battery? If my battery is drained, does voice 2 still work?



No. They are still active but they will have passive-like voicing and feel. So if you are in passive v2 mode, it will still use up battery juice. If your battery is drained v1 and v2 will BOTH sound very anemic and weak.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Made a clip of the classic bridge V2 with fortin nameless. I'm reallllly liking v2 for big sludgy/chuggy riffs.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0dwisw4h8otivfc/fishmanclassics_nameless1.caf/file


----------



## BearOnGuitar

I received the Powerex rechargable 9.6v battery. It's the same size the regular Duracell 9v, it comes precharged and works just perfectly. No issues on my side, and since the actual voltage with a full charge can go as high as 11v these might sound slightly better. Hard to say with new strings but it sounds good. I like it and I don't need to worry about installing the Fluence charger kit anymore.


----------



## juka

Tried different 9v lipo rechargeables so far having quite mixed results with my KM7 set:


*ZNTER 400mh* work really well in my guitar, but you can read about massive noise problems due to the built-in "voltage doubling circuitry" (providing 9._v)
*Okcell 650mh*: they provide "only" 8.4v (which is quite normal for 9v lipo rechargeables), but are noisy as hell! Can't use them in my guitar
YMMV


----------



## diagrammatiks

juka said:


> Tried different 9v lipo rechargeables so far having quite mixed results with my KM7 set:
> 
> 
> *ZNTER 400mh* work really well in my guitar, but you can read about massive noise problems due to the built-in "voltage doubling circuitry" (providing 9._v)
> *Okcell 650mh*: they provide "only" 8.4v (which is quite normal for 9v lipo rechargeables), but are noisy as hell! Can't use them in my guitar
> YMMV




Weird. Are you sure your wiring is ok? I use the okcells in all my guitars. 
The voltage doubler is exactly what the Fishman powerpack uses as well. Very few noise complaints.


----------



## lewis

BearOnGuitar said:


> I received the Powerex rechargable 9.6v battery. It's the same size the regular Duracell 9v, it comes precharged and works just perfectly. No issues on my side, and since the actual voltage with a full charge can go as high as 11v these might sound slightly better. Hard to say with new strings but it sounds good. I like it and I don't need to worry about installing the Fluence charger kit anymore.



These sound great. However from what ive seen in the UK, this and the steath charfer are really expensive? (Charger seemed like it was £60 alone)


----------



## BearOnGuitar

lewis said:


> These sound great. However from what ive seen in the UK, this and the steath charfer are really expensive? (Charger seemed like it was £60 alone)



Yeah, they might be expensive but I don't care as long as they are working correctly and I don't have to deal with any issues.


----------



## juka

diagrammatiks said:


> Weird. Are you sure your wiring is ok? I use the okcells in all my guitars.
> The voltage doubler is exactly what the Fishman powerpack uses as well. Very few noise complaints.



Yes, pretty sure about the wiring, because all the other batteries I've used so far with this guitar worked fine:
"normal" batteries (mostly alkaline and one or two lithiums) and 2 ZNTER lipos work fine, only my two Okcells make a hell of a noise!? Maybe just a bad batch? I don't know, but reading the comments on Amazon for example might lead to the conclusion that most of these lipos offered either on eBay or Amazon are extremely inconsistent.


----------



## couverdure

I don't have any experience with the Fluences but I'm just gonna drop off a question here so I don't have to make a thread.

Has anyone used them without the voice switching? Like a Modern bridge permanently wired to voice 1 and a Classic neck wired to voice 2? There's so many different ways to wire the Fluences and I don't see anyone who never use the switches, so I want to know if anyone uses them with simple 3/5-way pickup selector setup.


----------



## diagrammatiks

couverdure said:


> I don't have any experience with the Fluences but I'm just gonna drop off a question here so I don't have to make a thread.
> 
> Has anyone used them without the voice switching? Like a Modern bridge permanently wired to voice 1 and a Classic neck wired to voice 2? There's so many different ways to wire the Fluences and I don't see anyone who never use the switches, so I want to know if anyone uses them with simple 3/5-way pickup selector setup.




But y


----------



## juka

couverdure said:


> I don't have any experience with the Fluences but I'm just gonna drop off a question here so I don't have to make a thread.
> 
> Has anyone used them without the voice switching? Like a Modern bridge permanently wired to voice 1 and a Classic neck wired to voice 2? There's so many different ways to wire the Fluences and I don't see anyone who never use the switches, so I want to know if anyone uses them with simple 3/5-way pickup selector setup.



Fluence includes not only pots, cables,... to their pup sets but also 2 jumpers so that you can permanently set voices (or other options)...

...but why take away all the fun???

Meanwhile they have published a lot of wiring options, find the one that suits you best and let your creativity run free!


----------



## couverdure

juka said:


> Fluence includes not only pots, cables,... to their pup sets but also 2 jumpers so that you can permanently set voices (or other options)...
> 
> ...but why take away all the fun???
> 
> Meanwhile they have published a lot of wiring options, find the one that suits you best and let your creativity run free!


I wasn't aware that they come with their own push-pull pots, I was always under the assumption that they came separately. Although it does seem to take more time with more parts and wires being installed, especially replacing the regular 25k pots that most active pickups use since the Fluences use push-pull pots to switch voices.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Wiring takes like 15 minutes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

couverdure said:


> I wasn't aware that they come with their own push-pull pots, I was always under the assumption that they came separately. Although it does seem to take more time with more parts and wires being installed, especially replacing the regular 25k pots that most active pickups use since the Fluences use push-pull pots to switch voices.



Yeah, replacing Fluences take longer for me than most other guitars. Gotta not only remove the old electronics and replace the new ones, but also either gotta wire in push-pulls and/or mini toggles.

And yes, they do come with everything you need. 2 Push/pulls, 2 standard pots, mini jumpers (to activate either the voicing switch, high cut, or coil tap permanently), quick-connect wires, battery clip, etc. They spoil you just like EMG does.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

diagrammatiks said:


> Wiring takes like 15 minutes.


yeah if you're following a standard wiring diagram for just voice1/voice 2 options. Once you start adding in all the extra shit like hf tilt/coil tap and which coil you're choosing they can be a fuckin ball ache to install.


----------



## stockwell

I just finished putting Fishman Classic Open Core 8s in my 27-30" Agile 7-string. I currently have it in E or F, all fourths. I'd never bought or installed pickups before. I only have a couple guitars with EMGs to compare them to (that and the stock passives). 

I opted for the wiring with 1 push/pull volume (voice 1/2), a 3-way switch, and a tone (coil split...or tap, I always forget the distinction). I also bought the rechargeable battery pack. The cavity was a tight fit. Really had to squeeze everything in there. I also had to drill a new hole for the output jack, since it had a long-thread jack previously. I took my time but soldering turned out not to be as bad as I'd thought. 

I think they're great. I was worried it'd be a waste of money and I'd prefer the stocks. Maybe I'm just rationalizing the cost, but I think they sound great. All the different voices and options do actually sound different and useful. Nothing sounds like unusable garbage. Having 3 voice 1, 3 voice 2, and 3 coil tap options is really cool. They sound great with both cleans and heavy stuff. They're not as magical as the marketing would have you believe, but they're worth it IMO.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Well, I did the thing and bought the Townsend set. Turned my 2 way toggles into three way toggles for voice control and then added a push-pull tone knob for splits. Will finish wiring it up tomorrow.


----------



## Masoo2

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Well, I did the thing and bought the Townsend set. Turned my 2 way toggles into three way toggles for voice control and then added a push-pull tone knob for splits. Will finish wiring it up tomorrow



geez what a guitar


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Hah, thanks! Portrait Mode on my new phone didn't agree with it, as is evident by the smudges and the missing strap buttons


----------



## juka

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Well, I did the thing and bought the Townsend set. Turned my 2 way toggles into three way toggles for voice control and then added a push-pull tone knob for splits. Will finish wiring it up tomorrow.
> View attachment 74620



Although some cork sniffers call it a sacrilege, PRS and Fishman are always a great combo:


Let us know how you like the Devins in your guitar! Tried the Devins, too, and although they sounded great in there I was constantly checking the tone pot because they always had that sound like you had accidentally rolled down the tone


----------



## cardinal

OMG the PRS guitars in here. Wow so nice.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

The Townsend set is pretty damn great, guys. I like 'em just fine and here are my thoughts after a few days of playing. My setup is a EL34 5151 III with the matching cab and a bunch of effects that live on my board.

The bridge pickup is gnarly. Very thick and chunky with a bunch of clarity. Voice 2 is fine, but I don't see myself really using it a whole bunch. The split tones on V1 are cool for overdriving a clean channel or using with a Klon type of pedal. V2 in split mode is so-so; I don't see myself really using it for anything which continues my apathy towards that voicing in general on this pickup.

The neck pickup in particular is absolutely killer for leads. My favorite pickup set of all time is the CrunchLab/Liquifire and, while I wouldn't say that it's a Liquifire clone or anything, it has similar characteristics to that pickup that I really like such as having a "swooshy" or "squishy" pick attack (horrible descriptors, I know) when doing sweeping or alternate picking. Both V1 and V2 and their split options sound killer on cleans.

Many players are warning others against this pickup set all over the internets because they are said to sound like the tone control is rolled off a little bit. Yeah, the pickups are a little dark but in my experience I didn't find anything that really couldn't be fixed with a turn of the treble setting on my amp. One more thing is that Dev said the 3rd voice, which is really just a split, sounds like a Telecaster. Nah. It's really good and single coily but a Tele it is not.

Overall: 8/10, very thicc and the splits are fantastic for ambient and clean stuff but adding a little more MSG could bring out the natural umami flavor.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Thanks for the review
It’s just as I suspected from your description 

that’s why I really love the Fluence...no matter if the overdrive isn’t your taste (for instance your sounds like it’s very mid heavy , as Devin did say he likes that thickness, and Fishman videos show it in that way) your gonna love the cleans

and did you notice how silent they are??

can you describe your wiring a bit more, did you throw in gain toggle Or was it already there? Did you have split options on top of the gain toggle ? How many voices in total (?? If you are able to tell?) meaning out of possibilities , did you wire EVERYTHING or just a couple things

for example, I’m a huge fan of the Carpenter set. I think they are the closest to the EMG 81 Fluence has out, and I installed it in TOTAL contradiction to SRC. He wired his WEIRD. Like he limits his options so much, but I guess he wants it wired to how he plays

I (tried) to wire mine like the modern but the SRC circuit board are tweaked and don’t allow for split coil(no biggie ) but I installed the gain and the boost is subtle but significant 

like it gives my four voicings etc a lot to change up, especially if split hum(middle 3 way )

My point is there are a lot of options, Like if you don’t like the modern or Carpenter because they do sound like EMG scooped 81, there ARE sets with warm or thick vibes

great post dude


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

The beauty of Fishmans, from what I've seen so far, is the amount of tonal options that you're given to play with.

The guitar it's in is a PRS Custom 24-08 so I had a mini-toggle for each pickup that would split the sound. I originally intended on putting two three-way mini-toggles in it. I was going off of the 3 Voices thing but it turns out that there are just 2 voices and you can split them afterwards so I just kept the two-way switches in there and ended up putting a push-pull tone in.

So the wiring is as follows:

3-way Pickup Selector: Bridge-Bridge/Neck-Neck
Bridge Mini-Toggle: (Down) Voice 1-(Up) Voice 2
Neck Mini-Toggle: (Down) Voice 1-(Up) Voice 2
Push/Pull Tone Pot: Split Coil on all pickups
The way it's wired gives me a stupid amount of combinations since I can toggle V1 and V2 independently for each pickup. With each pickup isolated I have 4 different voicing options.

(V1)
(V1) Split
(V2)
(V2) Split
So the potential for mixing and matching is a lot.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Captain Butterscotch said:


> The beauty of Fishmans, from what I've seen so far, is the amount of tonal options that you're given to play with.
> 
> The guitar it's in is a PRS Custom 24-08 so I had a mini-toggle for each pickup that would split the sound. I originally intended on putting two three-way mini-toggles in it. I was going off of the 3 Voices thing but it turns out that there are just 2 voices and you can split them afterwards so I just kept the two-way switches in there and ended up putting a push-pull tone in.
> 
> So the wiring is as follows:
> 
> 3-way Pickup Selector: Bridge-Bridge/Neck-Neck
> Bridge Mini-Toggle: (Down) Voice 1-(Up) Voice 2
> Neck Mini-Toggle: (Down) Voice 1-(Up) Voice 2
> Push/Pull Tone Pot: Split Coil on all pickups
> The way it's wired gives me a stupid amount of combinations since I can toggle V1 and V2 independently for each pickup. With each pickup isolated I have 4 different voicing options.
> 
> (V1)
> (V1) Split
> (V2)
> (V2) Split
> So the potential for mixing and matching is a lot.


Ok, so you DID wire it specifically to YOUR tastes and needs

That’s awesome; so far you are the only other person I know that went all out on a sig set (For instance, I COULD have added H/F tilt, but I chose not to, i didnt want to roll back any highs AT ALL, so i instead installed just one switch as opposed to an additional knob for the tilt.)..as i said, only difference i would have made was to add the split coil option, but that wasnt on option on the SRC circuit board, which I was slightly disappointed, and found odd....because they are basically a Fluence Modern Ceramic Bridge on steroids, but at the cost of split coil

Its all good, between the four set voicings, the switch, and messing around with tone knobs, you literally can’t find something great

VERY VERY awesome post, Thanks for such detail man
‘
EDIT - My bad, I just realized the blue PRS is YOURS lol its GORGEOUS DUDE


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Hey thanks! 

This set doesn't have an H/F tilt or a gain boost, just a bunch of different voicings that range from Super Angry to Pretty Mellow.


----------



## juka

Any news on the Javier Reyes Signature Set?
Weren't they supposed to released on Black Friday?


----------



## Tisca

Fishman Universal Battery pack - do I want one or not?
I read 9V battery lasts only 110h. Do people buy rechargable 9V batteries, use the Fishman pack or just buy new batteries because they last long enough?
Not going to read through 56 pages =)


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Fishman Fluence EAT batteries, especially if you play a lot daily.....

I say get the battery pack, especially if it fits your cavity


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Tisca said:


> Fishman Universal Battery pack - do I want one or not?
> I read 9V battery lasts only 110h. Do people buy rechargable 9V batteries, use the Fishman pack or just buy new batteries because they last long enough?
> Not going to read through 56 pages =)



When I was regularly gigging 4 nights a week, 1, 1/2 hr sets (plus daily hourly practice or noodling), a Duracel lasts me a month. 

My EMG Hetset equipped guitar lasts me 3 months doing the same rounds.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

MASS DEFECT said:


> When I was regularly gigging 4 nights a week, 1, 1/2 hr sets (plus daily hourly practice or noodling), a Duracel lasts me a month.
> 
> My EMG Hetset equipped guitar lasts me 3 months doing the same rounds.


Really? Thats really not bad for Fishman...did you have your boost off? No extra stuff running? Active or passive mode mostly?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Really? Thats really not bad for Fishman...did you have your boost off? No extra stuff running? Active or passive mode mostly?


Passive active or splits dont really affect power consumption. I dont run boost pedals too. Most of the time, it's just my guitar through the ax8 and an ss power amp.


----------



## Tisca

I made an offer for package deal, Devin set + Battery Pack. Might be fine without the battery but I'm having 2nd thoughts about the Devin set. I keep reading they are too dark for dark guitars. I have this Tokai LPC style that is going to be without pickups soon and wanted to try something new. Anyone not having problems with Townsend set in darker guitar? Very few sound demos found online.

Tosin set intrigues me more but there are no 2nd hand for sale and I might out a set in my 8 stringer if it doesn't sell with the stock pups.


----------



## EarlWellington

I've borrowed a mate's guitar with fishman fluences in it and have noticed that when I roll the volume off half way I lose all the signal, but with the volume fully rolled off the signal returns to about 75% strength. Anyone experienced this? 

I also don't really notice a change in the voicings when using the tone knob to select. Is this a low battery issue or likely a dodgy volume pot? I'll be swapping the battery out tomorrow to try that out but thought I'd check to see if there were any other ideas?


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

EarlWellington said:


> I've borrowed a mate's guitar with fishman fluences in it and have noticed that when I roll the volume off half way I lose all the signal, but with the volume fully rolled off the signal returns to about 75% strength. Anyone experienced this?
> 
> I also don't really notice a change in the voicings when using the tone knob to select. Is this a low battery issue or likely a dodgy volume pot? I'll be swapping the battery out tomorrow to try that out but thought I'd check to see if there were any other ideas?


I cant say the same exactly, but I know what you mean. Also, if you get a chance, please try to unplug and plug it back in at high volume and see what happens....I’ve been getting like a volume 10, drop to 0 and quick crescendo to the knob degree.....I DO think its battery related, because this happens more when the battery is dying....

If i notice anything else, Ill let you know .... 

(Did you try a new battery btw)


----------



## Tisca

Is the Abasi 8 string set in white an existing product? It's listed on their site but can't find a listing anywhere in the world.


----------



## Adieu

Finally tried a guitar with a set... some mediocre-tier $550 Indo-Jackson at my local GC


Well holy shit.... I think I get the hype now


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Adieu said:


> Finally tried a guitar with a set... some mediocre-tier $550 Indo-Jackson at my local GC
> 
> 
> Well holy shit.... I think I get the hype now


Is that the new archtop dinky with a reverse headstock?


----------



## Adieu

MASS DEFECT said:


> Is that the new archtop dinky with a reverse headstock?



I....think so? Maybe?

It was kinda like a white LTD Horizon FR. Nothing fancy, but kicked like a mule and drove tube amps really well


----------



## Tisca

Black vs Black Nickel? Does the plain black have plastic covers like old EMGs or why is there a 37€ price difference on a 6s set?
Anyone happen to have side by side photo?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tisca said:


> Black vs Black Nickel? Does the plain black have plastic covers like old EMGs or why is there a 37€ price difference on a 6s set?
> Anyone happen to have side by side photo?


black is very matte plastic like EMGs. Black Nickel is a metal cover and looks more glossy


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Tisca said:


> Black vs Black Nickel? Does the plain black have plastic covers like old EMGs or why is there a 37€ price difference on a 6s set?
> Anyone happen to have side by side photo?



The plastic covers look good on matte black guitars. Otherwise, the black nickels look better for me.


----------



## Tisca

MASS DEFECT said:


> The plastic covers look good on matte black guitars. Otherwise, the black nickels look better for me.



That's a good point! Nickel it is then. 
Tosin set in a black gloss Tokai "LPC" with partly gold hardware.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Tisca said:


> That's a good point! Nickel it is then.
> Tosin set in a black gloss Tokai "LPC" with partly gold hardware.


Good choice, both of those guitars have Tosins too.


----------



## Tisca

MASS DEFECT said:


> Good choice, both of those guitars have Tosins too.



I assume you're running one vol one tone, both with push/pull for voice 2 and 3. Do you miss a 2nd volume or more? Using a 9V battery only?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Tisca said:


> I assume you're running one vol one tone, both with push/pull for voice 2 and 3. Do you miss a 2nd volume or more? Using a 9V battery only?



Yes. Pull volume for V2. Pull tone for V3, which overrides the first and second voices. I don't think I need a 2nd vol or another. I wish I had a super 5 way switch though so I can copy Tosin's switching. The tele sounding split sound is just nuts and I currently cant access it. I use a 9v battery. The other one has the Fluence battery pack.


----------



## Tisca

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yes. Pull volume for V2. Pull tone for V3, which overrides the first and second voices. I don't think I need a 2nd vol or another. I wish I had a super 5 way switch though so I can copy Tosin's switching. The tele sounding split sound is just nuts and I currently cant access it. I use a 9v battery. The other one has the Fluence battery pack.



Wait, you need a 5 way switch for the single coil sound? I assumed voice 3 was that.
I do have 4 holes for pots and a 5th for 3 way switch. Know of anyone who has maybe installed a 2nd switch for that split sound? I know this can be done but I'd have to have schematics to pull it off.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Tisca said:


> Wait, you need a 5 way switch for the single coil sound? I assumed voice 3 was that.
> I do have 4 holes for pots and a 5th for 3 way switch. Know of anyone who has maybe installed a 2nd switch for that split sound? I know this can be done but I'd have to have schematics to pull it off.



The tosin neck pickup can be split two ways. The way the super 5 is done is that the 4th position splits to the rail. Normally with a p/p it would split both pups to the poles. Although you can wire it to split to the rail. It's a bit complicated on the tosins though.


----------



## Tisca

I got it now. 
Voice 1: 750 Hz
Voice 2: 1.4 kHz
Voice 3: (Single Coil) 7.8kHz

This can be done with Vol, Tone + 3way or Vol, Vol, Tone + 3 way.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Tisca said:


> I got it now.
> Voice 1: 750 Hz
> Voice 2: 1.4 kHz
> Voice 3: (Single Coil) 7.8kHz
> 
> This can be done with Vol, Tone + 3way or Vol, Vol, Tone + 3 way.



Not quite. 

With the abase's the neck pickup can be split two ways and each way has it's own voicing. 

so with the super five way it goes.
1 - bridge
2 - bridge + neck pole parallel
3 - bridge + neck
4 - Neck rail
5 - neck

so the tosin specific wiring splits the auto splits the neck pickup two different ways. 

So with a 3way + v+t you can do voice1/2 select and voice 3 select but you can't select which coil you're splitting to on the neck.


----------



## Tisca

diagrammatiks said:


> With the abase's the neck pickup can be split two ways and each way has it's own voicing.



Got it. So the question is then, which split sounds better. I'm sure I'll be satisfied with only one of the options.


----------



## jmill00

I recently bought a set of the Will Adler fluence pickups. They came with the wrong wires/connector for voice 2 on the bridge. I contacted Fishman through email and they had the correct wire mailed out to me within a day. It was fantastic customer support. 

I have never played any of the other sets in the Fluence line, but this Will Adler set sounds amazing!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Thanks for the review
> ... for example, I’m a huge fan of the Carpenter set. I think they are the closest to the EMG 81 Fluence has out, and I installed it in TOTAL contradiction to SRC. He wired his WEIRD. Like he limits his options so much, but I guess he wants it wired to how he plays
> 
> I (tried) to wire mine like the modern but the SRC circuit board are tweaked and _*don’t allow for split coil *_(no biggie ) but I installed the gain and the boost is subtle but significant
> ...



I have a new SRC 7-string set that will go into my Schecter Hellraiser, and your comment here kind of alarmed me a bit that I looked at both the Fishman's PDF installation guides and at the actual pickups I have and they both have the coil split tabs (H, CT), so is that a new thing that earlier versions lacked? Or are they dummy tabs and don't split the coils like in the Moderns?


----------



## toner

I love the moderns and KSE sets. Just always wondered why the battery life is extremely LESS than EMG or Duncans.......


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

toner said:


> I love the moderns and KSE sets. Just always wondered why the battery life is extremely LESS than EMG or Duncans.......



Probably a lot more shit going on under the hood.


----------



## Flappydoodle

toner said:


> I love the moderns and KSE sets. Just always wondered why the battery life is extremely LESS than EMG or Duncans.......



Yeah, that’s the major drawback. The battery pack is the best option I think. I find that 9Vs stop sounding so good after a while. You change battery and it suddenly sounds way better. But the battery pack is like consistent until it fails.


----------



## mrdm53

allheavymusic said:


> I just finished putting Fishman Classic Open Core 8s in my 27-30" Agile 7-string. I currently have it in E or F, all fourths. I'd never bought or installed pickups before. I only have a couple guitars with EMGs to compare them to (that and the stock passives).
> 
> I opted for the wiring with 1 push/pull volume (voice 1/2), a 3-way switch, and a tone (coil split...or tap, I always forget the distinction). I also bought the rechargeable battery pack. The cavity was a tight fit. Really had to squeeze everything in there. I also had to drill a new hole for the output jack, since it had a long-thread jack previously. I took my time but soldering turned out not to be as bad as I'd thought.
> 
> I think they're great. I was worried it'd be a waste of money and I'd prefer the stocks. Maybe I'm just rationalizing the cost, but I think they sound great. All the different voices and options do actually sound different and useful. Nothing sounds like unusable garbage. Having 3 voice 1, 3 voice 2, and 3 coil tap options is really cool. They sound great with both cleans and heavy stuff. They're not as magical as the marketing would have you believe, but they're worth it IMO.



Interesting. Any clips to share?

I love Fishman Fluence Modern tone on my custom 7 string, that i decided to upgrade my 8 to another Fluence.

Problem is, i am using passive routing, so my choice is kinda limited with:

Fluence Open Core Classics
Or 
Fluence Keith Merrow signature 

Anyone has experience with both of them?


----------



## juka

Neck pup is exactly the same in both sets, Bridge pups differ in only 1 voicing: where the classic has the "hot rod" voicing, the KM has Keith's signature voicing (the other two are the same).

Javier Reeves will have his open core signature set released at NAMM, but i have no clue, how it will be voiced.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Anything new for Fluence for NAMM? How about that sig from the Rammstein dude?


----------



## Purelojik

I wonder if they'd ever just release a Fluence with a variable peak frequency option. Fiscally it makes more sense for them to release new models with various voices for different artists, but I feel that with the existing technology they could just as easily have a set of wires where you could basically parametrically sweep to a 'voice' that suits the individual player. 

Then again I might be totally off with my understanding of how these pickups work but from what I've seen and played so far I feel like they'd sell more collectively if this was an option.


----------



## Tisca

Purelojik said:


> I feel like they'd sell more collectively if this was an option.



I think they're afraid to cannibalize their own sales if one pickup could do all the sounds. I'm sure the technology is there.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Purelojik said:


> I wonder if they'd ever just release a Fluence with a variable peak frequency option. Fiscally it makes more sense for them to release new models with various voices for different artists, but I feel that with the existing technology they could just as easily have a set of wires where you could basically parametrically sweep to a 'voice' that suits the individual player.
> 
> Then again I might be totally off with my understanding of how these pickups work but from what I've seen and played so far I feel like they'd sell more collectively if this was an option.



I dont think that's how that works. Those Fluence stacked boards still need to be reconfigured to get your desired eq and gain like how you would need to wind wire and choose magnets accordingly dependent on your desired outcome/tone. Plus there's the issue of your preamp. i think it's all analogue in that respect.

However, playing around with the peak frequency is probably possible by installing something like that EMG active tone pot. But that just changes the eq. 

Now, if the technology was digital, it would be easier to just upload a tone signature and tweak in real-time like a pickup modeler.


----------



## Albake21

This is probably a stupid question, but I was looking into buying a Tosin set used. The seller does not have the wires and pots, which is fine since I have plenty of wire and pots from previous guitars. Instead of using the quick connectors, can I just solder the wires straight to the pins on the pickup or do I have to use the quick connectors?


----------



## Strobe

Albake21 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I was looking into buying a Tosin set used. The seller does not have the wires and pots, which is fine since I have plenty of wire and pots from previous guitars. Instead of using the quick connectors, can I just solder the wires straight to the pins on the pickup or do I have to use the quick connectors?



Short answer is yes. 

Long answer is that it is going to be tough to do that without causing a short. The pins are close. Better to solder to wires hooked into a quick connector. It would only cost a few bucks.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Albake21 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I was looking into buying a Tosin set used. The seller does not have the wires and pots, which is fine since I have plenty of wire and pots from previous guitars. Instead of using the quick connectors, can I just solder the wires straight to the pins on the pickup or do I have to use the quick connectors?


 Would advise against that. It would also knock off some value when you resell it in case you dont like it.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Fyi


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Fyi




Interesting. Those two bridge voices sound like two "active" voices. Instead of the usual active/passive voice.


----------



## Albake21

Man I'd love to see some comparisons of Javier's set to either the moderns or Tosin's. These seriously sound amazing, especially the clean tones he's getting. Oh man what to get, these or Tosin's.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Albake21 said:


> Man I'd love to see some comparisons of Javier's set to either the moderns or Tosin's. These seriously sound amazing, especially the clean tones he's getting. Oh man what to get, these or Tosin's.



From what I can hear from his demo, the Moderns would sound small in comparison. lol This seems to have huge low end without being overbearing like the carpenters.

The Tosins have more low end to compared to the moderns and there's some low mids too, but the Tosin sounds sharper and more trebly in V1. The Javier seems to have a trimmed and clean high end.


----------



## Tisca

Javier sure makes those sound great but then again he has talent.
I've been waiting for the Tosin 8 set in white which they finally announced. If the Reyes set comes out before I might be tempted to go with those instead for my 8 and Tosins in a 6. Or why not the other way around. Choices.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So it sounds like they're gonna be pretty scooped, twangy pickups. Almost single coil-like.


----------



## Purelojik

god that man is such a fantastic musician. i do like the sound hes getting from those. I'll have to get a set and give it a shot.


----------



## Ralyks

Is there any indication when the Reyes model is coming out? And also, did I imagine things, or were they suppose to eventually make more “Open Core” models of their existing pickups? I only ask because, well, I don’t fell like having to get routing done...


----------



## Albake21

Ralyks said:


> Is there any indication when the Reyes model is coming out? And also, did I imagine things, or were they suppose to eventually make more “Open Core” models of their existing pickups? I only ask because, well, I don’t fell like having to get routing done...


Unless they announce something at NAMM, I don't believe they have any plans for any more open core models. Although I really wish they would do more since the covered pickups are very limiting for many. I'd also like to know when Javier's set it coming out. From the demos, I feel like I prefer them more than Tosin's set. They sound a bit warmer compared to the Tosin set.


----------



## Chad

Anybody know what the most current revision numbers are for the Classic and Modern sets?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I made a quick halfassed demo of the fishman classics:


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

They released a new sig P-bass pickup, Mike Inez from AIC, here:


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I uh.
Didn't se that coming. 

But yeah, a bass tweaked to sound like a high end NS2 or Warwick Streamer would be killer.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

My only concern is that he was playing with treble all the way up, with a pick, and the tone was not bright one bit, how would it sound with fingerstyle? I guess adding the std. Fishman bass bridge pickup (which has 3 voicings) and blending could sound really good.


----------



## Gmork

When i heard of the tosins in white i imagined them in my white ironlabel... Then i thought of the javiers in my goc 8...
Then i thought about financing at long and mcquade lolol.

I really shouldnt........
Right?
Lolololol


----------



## daryl f ambrous

Hello , I had same problem when I went to install my leith merrow set in my schecter apocolyps cr fs1. U cannot use half moon shape switch , it's wat to tall , dimarzio has one that is like a box on switch and it's much more shallow and will fix your dilemma, sorry I cannot post link because I haven't fulfilled requirements to do so. I hope this helps thougj


----------



## ESPImperium

Im back in the market for a new 6 string that can do Drop B and C Standard. Came across the new Charvel PRO-MOD SO-CAL STYLE 2 24 HH 2PT CM ASH (Link below) would be a good mix for doing Dream Theatre, Arch Enemy, Slipknot, Stone Sour and Machine Head tones. However, i need to know more on these new to me Open Core thingerybob pickups are like. Could they do the vast cleans of Dream Theatre and also do the other assorted filth?

https://www.charvel.com/gear/shape/so-cal/style-2/pro-mod-so-cal-style-2-24-hh-2pt-cm-ash/2966511503

Its either a guitar that's sorted like this from stock, or a Modded PRS SE or a Fender Jim Root, then rip out the EMGs for a Seymour Duncan Nazgul or Pegasus/Sentient.

Ive been out of the active pickup game for over a decade now and am wondering what is new out there, or if EMGs are exactly what i need, a one trick pony for the assorted filth and just forget the expansive tones?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Voice 1 gets plenty damn clean and Voice 2 gets plenty damn filthy. Though be aware that Voice 2 is VERY midrangey and raw.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I know I've asked this before in the other Fluence thread. But I just installed the EMG Hetfields back to my Modern equipped guitar. And I don't know if I'm imagining things, but the Hets seem darker now but in my other guitars it's not. The Hets were in this guitar too before I did the Fluence swap and I don't remember them sounding like this.

Is it because of the different value capacitor (0.22 uF) that Fluence uses in the tone pot? What does the different value "exactly" do?


----------



## ryanougrad

This may have been asked, but is there any difference between the 25k volume and 25k push/pull tone pot that comes with the Fluence set? I'm wondering if I can use one of the "tone" pots as a volume in a vol/vol/tone setup? Not sure if the taper is different between their volume and tone pots?


----------



## diagrammatiks

ryanougrad said:


> This may have been asked, but is there any difference between the 25k volume and 25k push/pull tone pot that comes with the Fluence set? I'm wondering if I can use one of the "tone" pots as a volume in a vol/vol/tone setup? Not sure if the taper is different between their volume and tone pots?



I think they are the same.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

ryanougrad said:


> This may have been asked, but is there any difference between the 25k volume and 25k push/pull tone pot that comes with the Fluence set? I'm wondering if I can use one of the "tone" pots as a volume in a vol/vol/tone setup? Not sure if the taper is different between their volume and tone pots?



I used it as a volume without issues.

Unlike EMG, they don't hard wire caps onto the pot so it could be used as a volume. It doesn't become a tone pot until you wire a cap onto it.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Has anyone tried or better yet owned the Fishman bass pickups? If so, how'd they far against other stuff like EMG and Bartolini bass pickups?




Albake21 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I was looking into buying a Tosin set used. The seller does not have the wires and pots, which is fine since I have plenty of wire and pots from previous guitars. Instead of using the quick connectors, can I just solder the wires straight to the pins on the pickup or do I have to use the quick connectors?



I think it's weird that they don't have the hardware and connectors. I would pass on it.


----------



## ryanougrad

Can the Fluence be powered by the EMG ES-918 external 18 Volt power supply for EMG Pickup (it can also run 9v)? Don't think I can cram a battery or battery pack into my Explorer. Also seems like a great option if running more than one guitar with actives.


----------



## Strobe

ryanougrad said:


> Can the Fluence be powered by the EMG ES-918 external 18 Volt power supply for EMG Pickup (it can also run 9v)? Don't think I can cram a battery or battery pack into my Explorer. Also seems like a great option if running more than one guitar with actives.



I have talked to customer service on this before. 18V can damage them. They need to run on 9V. There is no benefit to running them 18V, it's just bad for them.


----------



## ryanougrad

Strobe said:


> I have talked to customer service on this before. 18V can damage them. They need to run on 9V. There is no benefit to running them 18V, it's just bad for them.


 The 918 can be switched b/t 9 and 18 volt. Just wondering if it can be used to power Fluence.


----------



## cardinal

MASS DEFECT said:


> I know I've asked this before in the other Fluence thread. But I just installed the EMG Hetfields back to my Modern equipped guitar. And I don't know if I'm imagining things, but the Hets seem darker now but in my other guitars it's not. The Hets were in this guitar too before I did the Fluence swap and I don't remember them sounding like this.
> 
> Is it because of the different value capacitor (0.22 uF) that Fluence uses in the tone pot? What does the different value "exactly" do?



The cap on a tone pot is out of the circuit when the tone pot is all the way up, and at el least with typical passive values, some interesting scope measurements have shown that the pot has to be turned more than half-way down before the cap value even starts to impact things; the first half of the sweep is just dependent on the value of the pot itself.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

cardinal said:


> The cap on a tone pot is out of the circuit when the tone pot is all the way up, and at el least with typical passive values, some interesting scope measurements have shown that the pot has to be turned more than half-way down before the cap value even starts to impact things; the first half of the sweep is just dependent on the value of the pot itself.



Thanks for clearing that up. I figured the pickups are a dud. Seems very neutered even in the other guitar with EMG wiring. I thought for a moment that the pot even all the way up affected the treble in active pickups.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. I figured the pickups are a dud. Seems very neutered even in the other guitar with EMG wiring. I thought for a moment that the pot even all the way up affected the treble in active pickups.


Just a reminder: People who say EMGs always sound the same are idiots and never fucking tried them.  EMGs can be just as picky as passives.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just a reminder: People who say EMGs always sound the same are idiots and never fucking tried them.  EMGs can be just as picky as passives.



Truth. 

And to wit, the Fluences are much more picky. The moderns and classic I had sound vastly different in my guitars when I swap them out against each other. The relative eq is there, but the interaction with the wood is more apparent than say putting EMG 81s in different guitars. 

The Moderns sound small in my Mahogany 7, but much bigger in my alder 7. Both had 707s and 81-7s before and sounded close to each other.


----------



## cardinal

MASS DEFECT said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. I figured the pickups are a dud. Seems very neutered even in the other guitar with EMG wiring. I thought for a moment that the pot even all the way up affected the treble in active pickups.



The pot value always matters. Just the tone cap value matters only once the pot starts getting turned down.


----------



## Flappydoodle

I’m surprised that there were no major announcements at NAMM. Couple years ago and there were loads of new models and seemingly every artist was switching over to Fishman. 

This year, one set of bass pickups, and a signature set for a guy I never heard of. Guess they’re not the hotness any more.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Flappydoodle said:


> a signature set for a guy I never heard of. Guess they’re not the hotness any more.



I wouldn't call Mike Inez unknown.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> I’m surprised that there were no major announcements at NAMM. Couple years ago and there were loads of new models and seemingly every artist was switching over to Fishman.
> 
> This year, one set of bass pickups, and a signature set for a guy I never heard of. Guess they’re not the hotness any more.



I think it comes down more to people being happy with the existing models really (including the endorsed artists). Most of them are using sets of Moderns and are perfectly happy with just those. There's no need in creating new sets if there's not a demand for it. Honestly, they'd be better off working on offering their existing sets in more configurations (open-core, 7-string, 8-string, and so forth). The line-up is so oddly divided all over the place at this point. One set comes in white, another doesn't, this one comes in bobbins, this one only soapbar. It's annoying.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The guy from Rammstein has a custom set ATM. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a sig set.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Flappydoodle said:


> I’m surprised that there were no major announcements at NAMM. Couple years ago and there were loads of new models and seemingly every artist was switching over to Fishman.
> 
> This year, one set of bass pickups, and a signature set for a guy I never heard of. Guess they’re not the hotness any more.



A Jackson line at 799 with fishmans, 4 different charvel models. Which means they signed a big deal with Fender.
6 or 7 new Schecters with stock fishmans

You don't need to put out new stuff when the stuff you're doing is selling.
Selling shit is the goal.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Flappydoodle said:


> I’m surprised that there were no major announcements at NAMM. Couple years ago and there were loads of new models and seemingly every artist was switching over to Fishman.
> 
> This year, one set of bass pickups, and a signature set for a guy I never heard of. Guess they’re not the hotness any more.



They also announced Javier Reyes signature set, is this the guy you never heard of before, really?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> They also announced Javier Reyes signature set, is this the guy you never heard of before, really?



Bro you gotta release 5 signature sets each year from high-profile A-list guitarist otherwise your brand is DEAD.


*DEAD.*


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

One thing I noticed on the Fluence JR set, there are 2 versions, and one of them is "angled". I'm surprised there is no other mention of this except the link's text, here: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...es_Signature_7-String_Angled_Paired__9084.jpg






So is this a first? Can Fishmans now be installed in multi-scale guitars?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Oooh, he got Alnico V And two passive tones. Was banking on a Ceramic. I guess I'll stay with my Tosins. Seems very similar in voicing.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> One thing I noticed on the Fluence JR set, there are 2 versions, and one of them is "angled". I'm surprised there is no other mention of this except the link's text, here: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...es_Signature_7-String_Angled_Paired__9084.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is this a first? Can Fishmans now be installed in multi-scale guitars?



well they could always be installed in multi scales. 

The tosins have one pole and one blade magnet in the neck so you want to keep the fan reasonable. 

The moderns have blades on all the coils so as long as the strings aren't outside the pickups they always work.

This should be the first set of straight poles that should work tho


----------



## narad

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> One thing I noticed on the Fluence JR set, there are 2 versions, and one of them is "angled". I'm surprised there is no other mention of this except the link's text, here: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...es_Signature_7-String_Angled_Paired__9084.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is this a first? Can Fishmans now be installed in multi-scale guitars?



Having checked out the page, I think "angled" is just the filename for the angled camera shot.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ I thought about that, but then that's I think the first time they'd done that. Previous models, e.g. Abasi, Keith have one image per option/color.


----------



## Bobo

Anyone tried swapping positions for the Modern set? I haven't seen that, although I'm sure it's been tried like the seemingly popular 81/85 swap.

I love the 85 in the bridge, thick and very powerful...wonder how the alnico 5 Modern would do in that role.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Bobo said:


> Anyone tried swapping positions for the Modern set? I haven't seen that, although I'm sure it's been tried like the seemingly popular 81/85 swap.
> 
> I love the 85 in the bridge, thick and very powerful...wonder how the alnico 5 Modern would do in that role.


I did and mentioned here how much I preferred it over the normal config.


----------



## Albake21

So I've now tried a fourth set of Fishman Moderns in a fourth guitar, I just don't get it to be honest. Their clarity is fantastic, but every Bare Knuckle I've tried has the same amount of clarity and note definition as Fishmans. I swear Fishmans (at least the moderns) are way more "Active" sounding than EMGs or SD Blackouts. Plus the lack of coil splitting on the 7 string set is just a no go for me. Guess I'm sticking with passives, because I just can't get into the Fishman Modern sound. They are so ice picky and fake sounding. I really wish I could try out another set like Tosin's, but I can't spend that much after my experience with the Moderns.

I guess my point of this post is to get some insight. Does every set have the same "feel" and just different sounds? I just can't get past the feel of the Moderns, no matter if it's Voice 1 or 2.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Albake21 said:


> So I've now tried a fourth set of Fishman Moderns in a fourth guitar, I just don't get it to be honest. Their clarity is fantastic, but every Bare Knuckle I've tried has the same amount of clarity and note definition as Fishmans. I swear Fishmans (at least the moderns) are way more "Active" sounding than EMGs or SD Blackouts. Plus the lack of coil splitting on the 7 string set is just a no go for me. Guess I'm sticking with passives, because I just can't get into the Fishman Modern sound. They are so ice picky and fake sounding. I really wish I could try out another set like Tosin's, but I can't spend that much after my experience with the Moderns.
> 
> I guess my point of this post is to get some insight. Does every set have the same "feel" and just different sounds? I just can't get past the feel of the Moderns, no matter if it's Voice 1 or 2.



What amp are you using it on? Signal chain?


----------



## Albake21

MASS DEFECT said:


> What amp are you using it on? Signal chain?


I'm an Axe FX user, specifically an AX8. That into a Scarlett 2i4 -> JBL 305 monitors.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> So I've now tried a fourth set of Fishman Moderns in a fourth guitar, I just don't get it to be honest. Their clarity is fantastic, but every Bare Knuckle I've tried has the same amount of clarity and note definition as Fishmans. I swear Fishmans (at least the moderns) are way more "Active" sounding than EMGs or SD Blackouts. Plus the lack of coil splitting on the 7 string set is just a no go for me. Guess I'm sticking with passives, because I just can't get into the Fishman Modern sound. They are so ice picky and fake sounding. I really wish I could try out another set like Tosin's, but I can't spend that much after my experience with the Moderns.
> 
> I guess my point of this post is to get some insight. Does every set have the same "feel" and just different sounds? I just can't get past the feel of the Moderns, no matter if it's Voice 1 or 2.



no the abasi and the classics feel much different then the moderns. 

And the coil splits on the moderns don’t do that much either.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Albake21 said:


> I'm an Axe FX user, specifically an AX8. That into a Scarlett 2i4 -> JBL 305 monitors.



I believe Lewis also has had a bad experience with Moderns through his AX8. I'm an AX8 user too, but I use it through a power amp and a cab and I don't hear much difference between my EMG 81 in terms of overall output and response. They sound relatively close despite their difference in eq. Although, I had an issue with it sounding squishy and overly compressed, but I fixed it by adjusting the input gain (pad) in the AX8. 

Sounds ok, but I vastly prefer the Tosins now since they sound bigger and closer to my EMG Hetset loaded guitars. I still have the Moderns in case I play through amps with big and loose low end.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> So I've now tried a fourth set of Fishman Moderns in a fourth guitar, I just don't get it to be honest. Their clarity is fantastic, but every Bare Knuckle I've tried has the same amount of clarity and note definition as Fishmans. I swear Fishmans (at least the moderns) are way more "Active" sounding than EMGs or SD Blackouts. Plus the lack of coil splitting on the 7 string set is just a no go for me. Guess I'm sticking with passives, because I just can't get into the Fishman Modern sound. They are so ice picky and fake sounding. I really wish I could try out another set like Tosin's, but I can't spend that much after my experience with the Moderns.
> 
> I guess my point of this post is to get some insight. Does every set have the same "feel" and just different sounds? I just can't get past the feel of the Moderns, no matter if it's Voice 1 or 2.



It's likely not because we're using FAS products but yeah, same experience for me. The feel is the same among them in my opinion (Modern, Tosin, Merrow) but the tones are different. It's hard to separate tone from feel though since you don't ever technically have pickups changing physical feelings. Also, the clarity isn't unparalleled imo either. The Bare Knuckle and Guitarmory sets I have just the same levels (if not better actually) clarity than any of my Fishman sets. There's a top end fizz most of my passives don't have that make them sound better than them as well. All that said, the KM set is awesome imo. It's just that I've found stuff I like a bit better.


----------



## Albake21

Guess I'll just wait for a crazy deal on a used Tosin set and give one more fair shot. If those still have the same feeling I don't get along with, then I guess I just understand why so many people prefer passive to active. Thanks for the input guys!


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Albake21 said:


> Guess I'll just wait for a crazy deal on a used Tosin set and give one more fair shot. If those still have the same feeling I don't get along with, then I guess I just understand why so many people prefer passive to active. Thanks for the input guys!


The Tosin set was too close to the Modern set for me to warrant their purchase. I returned them.
The KM set was different enough though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

To me, the Moderns sound like what EMG haters think EMGs sound like. Boring, lifeless, just really meh. Nothing special. I much prefer the Classics.


----------



## Albake21

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To me, the Moderns sound like what EMG haters think EMGs sound like. Boring, lifeless, just really meh. Nothing special.


This is so damn accurate, it hurts.


----------



## AndiKravljaca

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To me, the Moderns sound like what EMG haters think EMGs sound like. Boring, lifeless, just really meh. Nothing special. I much prefer the Classics.



It was a pickup I was desperate to like. I like technology, and I like the idea behind it, but I tried it and it managed to overcome my enthusiasm with its blandness. Which was a real disappointment, because I really wanted to like it.


----------



## Strobe

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To me, the Moderns sound like what EMG haters think EMGs sound like. Boring, lifeless, just really meh. Nothing special. I much prefer the Classics.





AndiKravljaca said:


> It was a pickup I was desperate to like. I like technology, and I like the idea behind it, but I tried it and it managed to overcome my enthusiasm with its blandness. Which was a real disappointment, because I really wanted to like it.



Huh. I prefer the Classic and Tosin set, but I like the modern. It's compressed but less than an EMG. To my ears, it has a little better clarity, more pleasant cleans, and a bit more low end as compared to say an EMG81. I still like the 81, I just prefer both the modern ceramic and alnico. Either in the neck sounds way better than an 85, which is problematic in terms of darkness and output to my ears.

The one thing I will say, the ceramic definitely has a little bit of the cocked wah sound to it. Some like this. The JB has that and it's a super popular pick up. BKP Juggernauts have that. That said, if you hate that, then you probably won't love the ceramic. The alnico has less of that.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The problem I had with the Moderns is that they didn't have the aggressive midrange like the 81, nor did the neck sound as clean and sparkly like the 60. Both the Modern and KsE didn't have the oomph or bite of the 81. It was just pure clarity. 

Only thing I liked about the Moderns/KsE is the Voice 2 of the moderns sounded cool for old school metal sounds, and Voice 2 and 3 of the KsEs were REALLY great for cleans.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

The KSE bridge has zero bass compared to the Modern which already has a lean bass. Totally hated the KSE when I tried it with a Caparison. As for the moderns not being as big sounding as an 81, I agree. But in my case, I put the moderns in a dark and bassy sounding guitar, and it definitely balanced the overall character. 

As for everything, I prefer the Tosins and they feel different than the Moderns since they have a more natural feel and a conventional eq that would be more in line with bareknuckles and Dimarzios that Tosin have used in the past.


----------



## c7spheres

Im just curious to all Fishamn owners out there that also are familliar with EMG's. How would you compare the noise floor to EMG's? Less, same, equal? I use 707 in bridge curently.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

c7spheres said:


> Im just curious to all Fishamn owners out there that also are familliar with EMG's. How would you compare the noise floor to EMG's? Less, same, equal? I use 707 in bridge curently.



The Fluece sets I have are much quieter that my 81/60s. i dont even use a noise gate on mine. The hetset is quieter than my 81s, but the moderns and Tosins I have are also quieter than the Het. 

Although, the alnico modern is proving to be equal in terms of noise floor compared to my EMGs. So at full gain, the modern ceramic bridge is quiet but when you switch to the neck alnico, you get some hum.Even if I switch their positions, it's the same. 

I have had a 707 in my COW7, now it has a Modern ceramic, and the difference in their noise floor is really noticeable.


----------



## Thrashman

I keep coming back to the Classics, personally. Can get really dry or saturated at will with the two voicing options. 

Also loving the battery pack, I haven't charged my guitar in like 9 months and it's still going strong.


----------



## diagrammatiks

The classics are so good.


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## Apex1rg7x

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The problem I had with the Moderns is that they didn't have the aggressive midrange like the 81, nor did the neck sound as clean and sparkly like the 60. Both the Modern and KsE didn't have the oomph or bite of the 81. It was just pure clarity.
> 
> Only thing I liked about the Moderns/KsE is the Voice 2 of the moderns sounded cool for old school metal sounds, and Voice 2 and 3 of the KsEs were REALLY great for cleans.


That's kinda where the Stef Carpenter set is voiced. Like the Modern bit a bit more aggressive midrange. I personally love the 6 string Stef set but have not tried Moderns.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

I've yet to try the Stefs. It's weird because people either really love them or hate them. They claim they're the meanest, brightest, and most aggressive Moderns, but then others claim they're muddy and bassy as shit


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## Apex1rg7x

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've yet to try the Stefs. It's weird because people either really love them or hate them. They claim they're the meanest, brightest, and most aggressive Moderns, but then others claim they're muddy and bassy as shit


I've seen dudes call them muddy and I'm kinda baffled by that. My 6 string set is in a LTD SC-20 with an Alder body and is tight as hell. Super clear when riffing and just has the qualities I've always wanted in an active pickup tbh. 

When I first got them, I put them in my Jim Root Tele just by using the quick connectors because I wanted to hear them quick and man did they do wonders in that guitar over the EMG 81/60 combo. It was amazing the difference in clarity over the 81, which imo seemed somewhat dark in that guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hope you aren't wrong.  When I tried the KsEs, they didn't really seem like an improvement over the 81/60 set I had in the guitar. Just made the guitar sound wimpy and thin.


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## Apex1rg7x

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Hope you aren't wrong.  When I tried the KsEs, they didn't really seem like an improvement over the 81/60 set I had in the guitar. Just made the guitar sound wimpy and thin.


Order a set and if you don't like them I'll buy them from you at a discounted price


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## MASS DEFECT

i hope they released those stef 6's as a regular model. im curious too, but they are hard to find.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> i hope they released those stef 6's as a regular model. im curious too, but they are hard to find.



I seriously think it was a stupid as hell move to not release 6-string versions as a full production version.


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## MASS DEFECT

^Yep, Carpenter has more history playing six strings than Tosin and Javier.


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## c7spheres

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> .......others claim they're muddy and bassy as shit



Seeing the video of Steph at Namm Fishman booth/demo, even Steph said in front of the crowd if he was given the chance again he'd change them. It sounds like he's not even really happy with them. I remember seeing it and was thinking uh oh, that's not a good endorcement there : )


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## Apex1rg7x

MASS DEFECT said:


> i hope they released those stef 6's as a regular model. im curious too, but they are hard to find.


ZZounds has 6 strong sets in stock.


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## hensh!n

I am now a part of the Fishman Fluence family.


----------



## Adieu

hensh!n said:


> I am now a part of the Fishman Fluence family.
> View attachment 77653
> View attachment 77654
> View attachment 77655
> View attachment 77656



Ooh mapley...what is that?


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## hensh!n

Adieu said:


> Ooh mapley...what is that?


G-Life! Japanese guitar brand from Daita (of SIAM Shade fame).


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## Tisca

Rarely have I been this indecisive, going back and forth with do I order Tosin 8's for my RG2228. I'll probably sell the guitar soon so the question is more do I want to test something else than 808s as long as I have the guitar and does the swap raise the value of the guitar enough.
When I go look for passives instead I always come to the conclusion that a new set of Fishmans is cheaper than or equal to 2nd hand quality passives.


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## diagrammatiks

Ya fishmans are super cheap used.

The tech should be a lot more scalable then traditional technology as well so maybe they'll get even cheaper.


----------



## Ralyks

My Strandberg Fusion NT is arriving today, and has a HSH setup. I'm really contemplating doing some combination of an Open Core, Reyes, and/or Merrow setup.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I’m thinking of swapping the moderns in my Singularity for Classics or Tosins. Is it a simple swap or do I need to rewire to whole thing?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

c7spheres said:


> Seeing the video of Steph at Namm Fishman booth/demo, even Steph said in front of the crowd if he was given the chance again he'd change them. It sounds like he's not even really happy with them. I remember seeing it and was thinking uh oh, that's not a good endorcement there : )



Yep, found it! Forward to 6:25.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Makes me wonder if they’ll make a “2.0” version...

They certainly looked sweet in my guitar, but that bridge was a bit of a one trick pony for my taste.

If he had the opportunity to voice something between a JB and an 81, I’d be aaalllllll over it! Not likely, but one can dream.


----------



## Strobe

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Makes me wonder if they’ll make a “2.0” version...
> 
> They certainly looked sweet in my guitar, but that bridge was a bit of a one trick pony for my taste.
> 
> If he had the opportunity to voice something between a JB and an 81, I’d be aaalllllll over it! Not likely, but one can dream.



Between a JB and an 81 is kind of how I hear the normal modern set.

I kind of heard the SC set as a modern with way more lows and a slightly different midrange. For my personal preferences that's not necessarily bad, but it's bad for extended range, which oddly is his thing.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Strobe said:


> Between a JB and an 81 is kind of how I hear the normal modern set.
> 
> I kind of heard the SC set as a modern with way more lows and a slightly different midrange. For my personal preferences that's not necessarily bad, but it's bad for extended range, which oddly is his thing.



I didn’t find them “bad” for ER, the bridge just sounded and felt like a “all metal, all the time” tone to me. I guess what I’d really like to see is a tweaked version of the Modern with an alnico in the bridge (voiced accordingly - I didn’t care for the Modern neck in the bridge).

I’d just use the Classic set but I’ve got an Ibanez multi-scale that uses 8 string pups in a 7-string guitar.


----------



## hensh!n

After spending some time with the Moderns, I’m now considering swapping the Rear PU with the Front PU (the Ceramic has a bit of that “cocked wah” thing going on). However I’m a bit apprehensive considering I’m not a huge fan of the EMG Super 77 in the Neck (which are similar and also uses Ceramic Magnets).

I may opt to go with a Alnico/Alnico configuration, or possibly try out the Tosin’s. I’m not a fan of his tone, but I do like the options. I’m really anticipating the Reyes set, which may be just right for me. But I want a Fishman PU that has the soap bar shape in order to keep the current aesthetic. Any feedback or recommendations? Also to note, I’m using V1 Gain on both pickups. I may go back to the original setting on the Front PU since I really only use it for high gain anyways. Additionally I don’t really use V2 for either pickup (yet), although that may change over time. 

I do want to note that I’ve tried the Classics on a 6 string, and wasn’t a huge fan. They were nosier than the EMG 57/66 set and only one voice from each PU was usable for me. The brightness and clarity were great on V1, but V2 sounded incredibly “choked” for lack of a better word. The 57/66-7 is too compressed for me, I much preferred them in a 6 string. I love V1 on the Moderns, but just want it to be a bit sweeter and buttery with more usable options for my tastes.


----------



## Tisca

@hensh!n 
Sounds to me like you're overthinking it. Have you considered passives? =)


----------



## Strobe

hensh!n said:


> After spending some time with the Moderns, I’m now considering swapping the Rear PU with the Front PU (the Ceramic has a bit of that “cocked wah” thing going on). However I’m a bit apprehensive considering I’m not a huge fan of the EMG Super 77 in the Neck (which are similar and also uses Ceramic Magnets).
> 
> I may opt to go with a Alnico/Alnico configuration, or possibly try out the Tosin’s. I’m not a fan of his tone, but I do like the options. I’m really anticipating the Reyes set, which may be just right for me. But I want a Fishman PU that has the soap bar shape in order to keep the current aesthetic. Any feedback or recommendations? Also to note, I’m using V1 Gain on both pickups. I may go back to the original setting on the Front PU since I really only use it for high gain anyways. Additionally I don’t really use V2 for either pickup (yet), although that may change over time.
> 
> I do want to note that I’ve tried the Classics on a 6 string, and wasn’t a huge fan. They were nosier than the EMG 57/66 set and only one voice from each PU was usable for me. The brightness and clarity were great on V1, but V2 sounded incredibly “choked” for lack of a better word. The 57/66-7 is too compressed for me, I much preferred them in a 6 string. I love V1 on the Moderns, but just want it to be a bit sweeter and buttery with more usable options for my tastes.



I have a 7 string guitar with moderns (ceramic bridge) and a 6 string with an alnico in the bridge (single pickup). The alnico is not a vastly different sound than the ceramic, but it *is* less cocked wah sounding. Voice 2 is also less cocked wah sounding on both pickups. That said, the cocked wah thing kind of works in the mix in my experience. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing.



Tisca said:


> @hensh!n
> Sounds to me like you're overthinking it. Have you considered passives? =)



Not to be contrary, but I am not sure switching to passives is going to inoculate anyone from the dangers of overthinking pickups


----------



## MASS DEFECT

The cocked wah sound is easily remedied by boosting the bass and scooping the mids a little on your amp. The less cocked wah sounding Fluence Ceramic is the Tosin and the Adler. But I guess if you are going for a seven soapbar, the choices dwindle between the Modern, Stephen and the Tosin.


----------



## hensh!n

Tisca said:


> @hensh!n
> Sounds to me like you're overthinking it. Have you considered passives? =)


I’ve only been using Actives for about 4 years, spending the other 15 using Passives. I liked the SD Jazz in the Neck, and used the JBE Two Tones for 2+ years. Other than that, nothing has been remarkable or stood out to me. Looking back, most of them were pretty weak sounding and noisy. But I didn’t get into swapping stock PU’s until 2013. I recently tried a set of BKP Aftermaths, which sounded pretty clean for Ceramic PU’s, but not worth the ridiculous asking price.


----------



## hensh!n

MASS DEFECT said:


> The cocked wah sound is easily remedied by boosting the bass and scooping the mids a little on your amp. The less cocked wah sounding Fluence Ceramic is the Tosin and the Adler. But I guess if you are going for a seven soapbar, the choices dwindle between the Modern, Stephen and the Tosin.



Perhaps the Tosin are where it’s at.


----------



## ZombieLloyd

Hey guys, sorry if this question is really dumb, but would a Fishman Fluence humbucker work with the Dual Mode cable from the EMGs with coil split?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

hensh!n said:


> Perhaps the Tosin are where it’s at.



It is where it's at. I always advocate for the Tosins since they sound much better than the Moderns and you get a V2 that sounds close to his dimarzio. And the single coil sound is just as good.

You can hear the different modes here:


----------



## Apex1rg7x

MASS DEFECT said:


> It is where it's at. I always advocate for the Tosins since they sound much better than the Moderns and you get a V2 that sounds close to his dimarzio. And the single coil sound is just as good.
> 
> You can hear the different modes here:



The Tosins sound so damn good in this guys demo. I was set on ordering another set of Stef's or even Moderns but these are it. I'm gonna give them a shot I think.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Ok before I buy the Tosins, I would like a bit of feedback. I plan to put them in my LTD SC-20 which is maple neck-thru, Alder wings. I've read a bit of chatter that these can be pretty bright, so I'm just checking to see if anyone has experience with these in alder or think this would be a bad pairing.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Apex1rg7x said:


> Ok before I buy the Tosins, I would like a bit of feedback. I plan to put them in my LTD SC-20 which is maple neck-thru, Alder wings. I've read a bit of chatter that these can be pretty bright, so I'm just checking to see if anyone has experience with these in alder or think this would be a bad pairing.



tosin's aren't that bright. it shouldn't matter.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Apex1rg7x said:


> Ok before I buy the Tosins, I would like a bit of feedback. I plan to put them in my LTD SC-20 which is maple neck-thru, Alder wings. I've read a bit of chatter that these can be pretty bright, so I'm just checking to see if anyone has experience with these in alder or think this would be a bad pairing.



I have one in an alder and maple neck thru, and there is a little bit of brightness vs my moderns, but I just back down the treble half a step on my amp. But the brightness is not the hairy upper highs kind. The spike is on a more pleasant spot in the overall eq.


----------



## LeoLmX

Will they ever release the charging port on the output jack? I can't wait to put an Abasi or Ravier set but I don't want to make a hole on my precious guitar for the charging port


----------



## Apex1rg7x

MASS DEFECT said:


> I have one in an alder and maple neck thru, and there is a little bit of brightness vs my moderns, but I just back down the treble half a step on my amp. But the brightness is not the hairy upper highs kind. The spike is on a more pleasant spot in the overall eq.


You have experience with the Devin set by chance? I think its down to those 2 at this point.


----------



## Strobe

Apex1rg7x said:


> You have experience with the Devin set by chance? I think its down to those 2 at this point.



The Devin set is significantly less bright. If you have a super bright guitar, it might tame it. It sounds kind of like a modern but with the tone down halfway. It's still clear, but it's also darker than I typically prefer.

I own the Tosin set, and I slightly prefer them to the moderns. They are to my ears fuller and a little more even. For context, I do not own the Devin set, but my band mate has a guitar with them.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Apex1rg7x said:


> You have experience with the Devin set by chance? I think its down to those 2 at this point.



Same experience I have with others. The Devins sound too dark for me.


----------



## mrdm53

Decided to pull the trigger to bought Fluence KM-8 set to replace Duncan Solar on my Stranough custom 8 strings (Yes it's inspired by old Ibanez DCM with neck pickups added, for more versatility).




First impression:
Pretty impressive pickups IMO. It has different kind of aggression from Moderns, i i had to adjust EQ in my amp (EVH 5150 50w 6L6 version) for my style thought.

About voicings:

Voice 1: good low mid bite, really cool for chugging. Not as tight as Moderns. Clean tone is warm but not muddy for chords

Voice 2: Brown sound with emphasis in mid range tone. Again, is not as tight as Moderns. However, contrary to manual says, i felt that Voice 2 has bigger output than Voice 1.

Voice 3: This is surprising. It has nice twang sound like single coil pickup. Good for slap.

Overall: Thank you Keith for creating this amazing pickups!


----------



## Ralyks

Are the Javiers even out yet? I'm really considering them for my Strandberg Fusion NT, as it seems like it would cover my Prog Metal needs as well as a jazzy sound for cleans, but only examples I've heard are from Javiers videos. I like to play a lot of standard tuned Thrash and some Drop D stuff so kind of want to know if it will work.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ Seen them in stock at Sweetwater.com a couple of weeks ago. I'm building a custom guitar, details when complete, and I chose these pickups for the new build, hopefully a couple more months or so.


----------



## Jake Haskell

LeoLmX said:


> Will they ever release the charging port on the output jack? I can't wait to put an Abasi or Ravier set but I don't want to make a hole on my precious guitar for the charging port


You only need to drill a hole in the control cavity cover. I'm sure you could get a spare one in case


----------



## lewis

Anyone know of any solderless quick connect cables that work with the recharge pack?
That way i can use the full emg solderless kit and not have to solder a thing.

Ive found the normal quick connect cables but they have different ends to the recharge kit it looks like


----------



## Rossness

I used to really hate active pickups. When I say that, I’m referring to the EMG 81/85/60/S/SA and all their variants. I found them not to be focused, lifeless and always hated the “liquid fluidity” sound of the neck pickup. Blackouts were better, but still uninspiring. I was the guy who liked passive pups. Favourite pickups were the SD Screamin Demon & Custom Custom, Dean Baker Act, Dimarzio Fred and EBMM Axis pickups.

On a whim, I decided to build a parts guitar with active pickups and used an EMG 57/66 set. I’ve had the parts guitar for over a year now and still really dig the 57 (the 66 still leaves something to be desired). The 57 sounds like the perfect Les Paul PAF. I was playing Judas Priest and Dokken and Van Halen riffs, and it sounds great!

Next, I put the Fluence Killswitch Engage set into my PRS S2. I swear that they’re the best pickups I’ve ever used! The KSE guys have great ears!!!! We even like similar amps too (Laney/ Splawn/ Framus). Anyhow... Voice 1 is JB-esque with nice upper mids. Voice 2 is darker, lower output and reminds me of a Dimarzio Super 3- but one with more clarity. I don’t have mine wired for split coil sounds.

For my next guitar, I’m thinking of doing Fluence pickups again but maybe switching things up to get some tonal variety. I don’t like the classics. I hear the peak frequency and fow whatever reason, it sounds artificial to me. I’ve thought about maybe the Tosin or modern pickups. How do they compare to the KSE fluence pickups? Worst case scenario is that I’ll just get another KSE set. I play mostly 80’s metal/ hard rock.

1 last question- with active pickups like the KSE fluence, does body wood mater or affect the tone the way it does with passive pickups?


----------



## lewis

lewis said:


> Anyone know of any solderless quick connect cables that work with the recharge pack?
> That way i can use the full emg solderless kit and not have to solder a thing.
> 
> Ive found the normal quick connect cables but they have different ends to the recharge kit it looks like


Bumping this again


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Rossness said:


> 1 last question- with active pickups like the KSE fluence, does body wood mater or affect the tone the way it does with passive pickups?


they're the same as any other pickups. What guitar you put them in matters, and the construction method/woods used matters to an extent as well. I had a set of classics in a baritone and hated them. Conversely I loved the moderns I had in them before I swapped. The classics were unbearably bright in that guitar, and they felt honky in it as well. The moderns didn't have as much of that honky quality and I loved v2 on them. 
I've tried a couple of other guitars that came preloaded with moderns and they all sound different. The ibanez I tried was super bright and had like no bass response even on v2, the jackson I tried was much thicker/warmer sounding overall.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

lewis said:


> Bumping this again


Hey @lewis , what set were you attempting to use the EMG solderless kit with [or if you’ve already done so, how did it work out?]?

Do you know if you can Coil Tap on the Modern/Carpenter set with the EMG kit?

Thank you


----------



## lewis

Fluence of Shred said:


> Hey @lewis , what set were you attempting to use the EMG solderless kit with [or if you’ve already done so, how did it work out?]?
> 
> Do you know if you can Coil Tap on the Modern/Carpenter set with the EMG kit?
> 
> Thank you



I basically want to get the strat pack recharge back plate, then find a solderless cable that fits the plug coming off it with the other end normal emg sized.

That way i dont need to solder anything at all right!?
can ground the thing at the EMG Bus thing?

Im hoping with the right cables sourced i can literally plug the recharge battery in seamlessly.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

Theoretically, sure that makes sense. I also dont solder [well] so I dont want to ruin these pickups, because then i wont be able to have anyone fix it during these times....I wonder why Fishman is so vague with technical information and wiring diagrams, something you would think [they know] is essential

The X factor here is the Fluence core, it makes a huge difference, and it looks to me from reading here and online that people have to try crazy things to see if it works, while fishman doesnt really care to help

IDK, all i know is I think the Fluence are the most amazing pickups Ive ever heard, and I mean that completely sincerely.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Fluence of Shred said:


> Theoretically, sure that makes sense. I also dont solder [well] so I dont want to ruin these pickups, because then i wont be able to have anyone fix it during these times....I wonder why Fishman is so vague with technical information and wiring diagrams, something you would think [they know] is essential
> 
> The X factor here is the Fluence core, it makes a huge difference, and it looks to me from reading here and online that people have to try crazy things to see if it works, while fishman doesnt really care to help
> 
> IDK, all i know is I think the Fluence are the most amazing pickups Ive ever heard, and I mean that completely sincerely.



It's actually really simple if you take the time to think about how they are setup. The fishman's are actually much much easier to wire then regular pickups. Everything is either an on-off switch or an override. Very simple.


----------



## Vegetta

According to Ken on the live stream Interview with Keith Merrow. Colored Merrow sets are going to be released. Not sure on colors beside white. He joked about Lambo Colors but said more options will be available. 

Not sure if this will include other sets as they were not mentioned (I would assume so)


----------



## lewis

About time this happened. Bareknuckle has been putting everyone to shame for years.
2020 and EMG for example still cant offer anything colour wise except white and red?!

Dumb asf


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Watching the Matt Heafy interview right now, he has a Custom Fishman Fluence (with gold accent) to be released soon (I think). Epiphone will be re-releasing his sigs in 6,7, and with/without Evertune, 8 models overall.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

diagrammatiks said:


> It's actually really simple if you take the time to think about how they are setup. The fishman's are actually much much easier to wire then regular pickups. Everything is either an on-off switch or an override. Very simple.


Hey man I’m not worried, more concerned if it’s worth doing with out a preset voicing in the core. Ive read poor results but it’s worth trying.
Anyone tried soldering their Modern/SRC set to Coil tap, with a double pull double throw switch ? 

or maybe use a tutorial ?


----------



## Fluence of Shred

diagrammatiks said:


> It's actually really simple if you take the time to think about how they are setup. The fishman's are actually much much easier to wire then regular pickups. Everything is either an on-off switch or an override. Very simple.


I’m trying to figure how how and where to put the DPDT Switch near the 3 way selector and then the soldering to the fickups little coil tap tab looks like you need some skill

what do you suggest as guides?


----------



## Tisca

I noticed the Tosin 8 set disappeared from some etailers selection. As in sold out/ not carrying said item anymore. Anyone know anything about this?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Fluence of Shred said:


> I’m trying to figure how how and where to put the DPDT Switch near the 3 way selector and then the soldering to the fickups little coil tap tab looks like you need some skill
> 
> what do you suggest as guides?



just look at some soldering guides. the pads are way easy to solder to.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Tisca said:


> I noticed the Tosin 8 set disappeared from some etailers selection. As in sold out/ not carrying said item anymore. Anyone know anything about this?



They are in-stock at MF, and AmericanMusical.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

Also, Fishman has them in stock, I just ordered a white tosin 8 set.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

What....you can order from Fishman?!! I didn't know you could do that, online or by phone?


----------



## Tisca

Fluence of Shred said:


> Also, Fishman has them in stock, I just ordered a white tosin 8 set.



Can't find purchase option on their site. How did you order?
Also, what guitar are you putting the whites in?


----------



## Stephenar19

Hey guys,
Wasn’t sure if this is new thread worthy or not, but I just picked up a used 752 with fishmans. The thing is, I’m not sure which model they are and there doesn’t seem to be a battery anywhere. Tone-wise they sound great but I get an annoying amount of feedback from them when I’m not playing. From what I can see the wiring seems to check out but I haven’t traced it all out against a diagram.

Is it possible for these to be wired without a battery and that’s why they’re giving feedback? Or am I missing something?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Stephenar19 said:


> Hey guys,
> Wasn’t sure if this is new thread worthy or not, but I just picked up a used 752 with fishmans. The thing is, I’m not sure which model they are and there doesn’t seem to be a battery anywhere. Tone-wise they sound great but I get an annoying amount of feedback from them when I’m not playing. From what I can see the wiring seems to check out but I haven’t traced it all out against a diagram.
> 
> Is it possible for these to be wired without a battery and that’s why they’re giving feedback? Or am I missing something?


make sure they're properly grounded and the electronics cavities are decently shielded.


----------



## Stephenar19

Ok will do. I asked a tech and he said adding a battery would just make it run hotter. Is this true?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Stephenar19 said:


> Ok will do. I asked a tech and he said adding a battery would just make it run hotter. Is this true?



you check the cavity and everything? you can't run them without batteries.


----------



## Stephenar19

Well I feel stupid... I opened it back up and in fact there is a battery, it was just in an odd spot. 

Thanks, I'll look into making sure there's some proper shielding on these bad boys. Is there any way to know what model they are without completely pulling them out?


----------



## Fluence of Shred

Tisca said:


> Can't find purchase option on their site. How did you order?
> Also, what guitar are you putting the whites in?


I did it over the phone after an order part and exchange

I’m putting white soap bars in an RG


----------



## diagrammatiks

Stephenar19 said:


> Well I feel stupid... I opened it back up and in fact there is a battery, it was just in an odd spot.
> 
> Thanks, I'll look into making sure there's some proper shielding on these bad boys. Is there any way to know what model they are without completely pulling them out?



also get a new tech.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

diagrammatiks said:


> also get a new tech.


Really man.....

I literally had to tear a new hole in my last one - he did the same thing: 
He didnt know the PIEZO had a battery or the compartment labeled “piezo controls” with a battery diagram/icon


----------



## Stephenar19

Oof. Yeah, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt and guess they just never work with actives/piezos. I don't know, in my case this was just the on staff tech at GC, I don't really have one guy I go to regularly


----------



## Robooze

Hi y'all! I was looking for a future set of pickups for my new PRS SE Zach Myers sig. guitar.
Even though I'd say the stock ones are pretty decent, I really wanted something very versatile that could cover low-gain type of music and very heavy stuff as well, and the Fishman Fluence naturally got my attention.

Point is, my guitar is in Open C tuning, 24.5 in length, and also semi-hollow and would like to record with it. Do you think all the Fluence options are good at preventing bad low-end frequencies and create clarity with distortion, or should I orient myself towards a particular set? I would still like to retain the acoustic nature of the guitar for the clean tones if that makes sense

I know Devin Townsend has some semi-hollows on which he plays heavy stuff as well, but I've heard his sig. set is pretty bassy. Is it really though?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm not sure if I'd call the DT set bassy. Just very smooth. It takes the modern set and rolls of the high end. 

You may want the Classics or Keith Merrows. Both sets are meant to have a low-gain classic rock voicing, and a more hot-rodded, modern voicing.


----------



## Robooze

Thank you very much! I'd just want to avoid muddiness in the low end as much as possibile, mainly for tight heavy rhythms, while retaining warmth on higher parts of scale for more mellow music. But at this point it seems that all the sets could actually be viable options for me, just with different shades and nuances?

Anyways, how would you compare the clean tones between the Classic and Modern if you got the chance to try them both?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Robooze said:


> Thank you very much! I'd just want to avoid muddiness in the low end as much as possibile, mainly for tight heavy rhythms, while retaining warmth on higher parts of scale for more mellow music. But at this point it seems that all the sets could actually be viable options for me, just with different shades and nuances?
> 
> Anyways, how would you compare the clean tones between the Classic and Modern if you got the chance to try them both?



Been awhile since I had the moderns. The modern cleans were just... clean.  If you want a Modern seat tweaked for cleans, you want the KsE. The KsE is slightly lower output and has less bass, so it's pretty much ALL mids on voice 1, with a more scooped, bassier voice 2 which sounds surprisingly sparkly clean. Basically take the active clean sound and give it more body and top. It sounded really, really nice. And Voice 3 (split) sounds fucking amazing. I didn't gel with these because, like I said, voice 1 was ALL mids.  And Voice 2 wasn't tight enough for metal rhythms.

I prefer the Classics all around. Voice 1 is divine for cleans. Sounds like a PAF with a bit of single coil flair. Voice 2 is pretty damn good for cleans as well. Bit more midrange and body.


----------



## Robooze

So, I found online a comprehensive pack of samples and stems for each Fluence set, with all the positions and available voices for each and wow... I wouldn't have thought this but I am totally amazed by the Tosin's!

I went through all the tones for each set and these are my overall ear impressions:

The KsE has very lovely and sparkly cleans. Its high-gain heavy type of sound is indeed very tight but to me lacks in the low-end, like there's no much life and body to the tone.
I dig the Classics. Unfortunately (but quite reasonably) some of their tones didn't sound modern enough for me.
I loved so much how full and deep the Tosin Abasi and Devin Townsend heavy sound was! Their cleans are veeery good, I especially think the Tosin Abasi has the best ones out of all the sets. Its voice 3 cleans are just superb. They sound so clear, percussive and acoustic-like! 
Between the Devin and Tosin Abasi, I think I'll go for the latter! I've found it has slightly more tightness and chord definition in high-gain settings, whilst the devin sound is a bit more smooth and fat. Just a subtle difference though.


----------



## Albake21

Robooze said:


> So, I found online a comprehensive pack of samples and stems for each Fluence set, with all the positions and available voices for each and wow... I wouldn't have thought this but I am totally amazed by the Tosin's!
> 
> I went through all the tones for each set and these are my overall ear impressions:
> 
> The KsE has very lovely and sparkly cleans. Its high-gain heavy type of sound is indeed very tight but to me lacks in the low-end, like there's no much life and body to the tone.
> I dig the Classics. Unfortunately (but quite reasonably) some of their tones didn't sound modern enough for me.
> I loved so much how full and deep the Tosin Abasi and Devin Townsend heavy sound was! Their cleans are veeery good, I especially think the Tosin Abasi has the best ones out of all the sets. Its voice 3 cleans are just superb. They sound so clear, percussive and acoustic-like!
> Between the Devin and Tosin Abasi, I think I'll go for the latter! I've found it has slightly more tightness and chord definition in high-gain settings, whilst the devin sound is a bit more smooth and fat. Just a subtle difference though.


Where did you get these stems from? I'd love to give them a try myself.


----------



## Robooze

See if this works: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/579zckh7d35x9kj/AAD2xZM8PbXSxTVz6hRoAOR8a?dl=0

It's the link they provide under the fluence signature videos they put on YouTube. Honestly I don't know how they managed to isolate all the sound clips but to me they all sound very different.


----------



## Albake21

Robooze said:


> See if this works: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/579zckh7d35x9kj/AAD2xZM8PbXSxTVz6hRoAOR8a?dl=0
> 
> It's the link they provide under the fluence signature videos they put on YouTube. Honestly I don't know how they managed to isolate all the sound clips but to me they all sound very different.


That worked, thank you! I've always wanted to try out the Tosin set since I've never gotten along with the moderns on 3 different occasions.


----------



## Robooze

I'd love to know your take on the sets. I'm by no means a sound expert so my impressions could be a lot subjective. Thanks!


----------



## Ralyks

I'm super tempted to put Tosins in my Strandberg Fusion at this point, but man, I really don't want to have any routing done. Kinda been going between the Open Cores and the Javiers. Whatever can do Prog and Thrash and a little Jazz.

My Boden Original 7 that already has Moderns in there, yeah, that is getting Tosins.


----------



## Albake21

So I took a listen to these stem files, it's very interesting to finally have a fair comparison. I used the Nueral DSP Nolly plugin to listen to these. Honesty, for the most part there are pretty subtle differences under high gain. I noticed there's a bigger difference when using Alnico vs Ceramic. 

The two that really drew my attention were the Tosin Abasi and Keith Merrow bridge. The Killswitch set sounded really good, but like many others have said, it really lacks low end. Keith's bridge really surprised me. Under high gain, on voice 1, it sounds very similar to the Tosin bridge except it has this snappy sound in the high end that I really like. No other models seem to have this. I also really love the smoothness of Devin's bridge. Honestly I'd be happy with any of these three.

As for cleans, I really think they all sound fantastic. Tosin's Voice 3 sounds like a classic strat, which personally isn't my thing, but I know a lot of people would love it. Honestly, I think I have to go with Devin or Keith again on this. I know Keith's neck is just a classic but it sounds really nice for cleans. Devin's Voice 3 just sounds like a perfect well rounded single coil while others are bit too thin for me.

This test absolutely confirmed my hate for the moderns. They are way too compressed and lifeless.


----------



## Goldenfinger

Hello Everyone,
I need help for my LP project. I recently got KM set and extra p/p pots.
I want to have the volumes p/p for V1&2 for each pickup and Tones p/p for V3 for each pickup. I have contacted Fishman CS for a diagram but they seems busy. Can anyone help suggest me for the diagram to wire this?


----------



## diagrammatiks

everything just goes to ground. the k/m set should have a pin labeled v3. it overrides the pin for v2. so just have it switch to ground and the v2 pin switch to ground. You'll never get a wiring diagram from fishman.


----------



## Two Panthers

They wont give it to you because they dont want to/lazy, and also others do it better and for example strandberg gets “proporiety’ wiring other companies don’t get the offer on respective guitars with the Fluence pickups .....

Use the wiring from the right set, not all sets use the same wiring even if the blocks and female/male fit.....and also there is no pre amp for the split coil on the modern and SRC which is why you cant get them to “sounds “ properly , so maybe skip it

They are awesome in 3 way middle position anyway


----------



## Goldenfinger

Thank you so much.
I have been reading this thread from the first page before decided to go with the FISHMAN.
As it happened to me once, it is so true that they won’t help with the wiring diagram. I now really want to kick myself a 1,000 time for I have recently just bought many of the Fluence models and can’t get help with the wiring scheme I like them to be.


----------



## diagrammatiks

hey man it's not that hard. what are you trying to do?

unless you are trying to do some fancy hss or hsh wiring. it's pretty easy.

if it's fancy they can't help you because they don't know. i've gotten replies from them that have directly contradicted their diagrams.


----------



## Two Panthers

Goldenfinger said:


> Thank you so much.
> I have been reading this thread from the first page before decided to go with the FISHMAN.
> As it happened to me once, it is so true that they won’t help with the wiring diagram. I now really want to kick myself a 1,000 time for I have recently just bought many of the Fluence models and can’t get help with the wiring scheme I like them to be.


NO problem man
Glad i could be of service my good man


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Oh man, just got my Strandberg Boden Metal 7 and it's amazing, but by god do the Fishmans hum like a motherfucker. They shouldn't do that. What could cause hum in Fluences?


----------



## Two Panthers

Robooze said:


> Thank you very much! I'd just want to avoid muddiness in the low end as much as possibile, mainly for tight heavy rhythms, while retaining warmth on higher parts of scale for more mellow music. But at this point it seems that all the sets could actually be viable options for me, just with different shades and nuances?
> 
> Anyways, how would you compare the clean tones between the Classic and Modern if you got the chance to try them both?


Please correct me if i am wrong, if you are lookin for super super bright scooped the SRC set is by far the most Scooped and clearest IMO


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

I'm considering putting an HSS set of Fluences into an Ibanez AZ2206, but I'd really like to duplicate the switching configuration it comes with stock.







It seems like if I use a Classic in the bridge, I'd be able to use the "SCO Out" for 2nd position in both modes, and then if the single coil mode is set to "bridge" the coil tap would work for fourth position in tap mode. So I think all the variants are achievable, it's just wiring the switching that's going to be questionable. I don't have the AZ yet so I don't know what the switches look like, just trying to make sure my plan's going to work when I have it.

Ideally in tap mode first position would be voice two of the humbucker, too. This is going to get crazy, isn't it?


----------



## diagrammatiks

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> I'm considering putting an HSS set of Fluences into an Ibanez AZ2206, but I'd really like to duplicate the switching configuration it comes with stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like if I use a Classic in the bridge, I'd be able to use the "SCO Out" for 2nd position in both modes, and then if the single coil mode is set to "bridge" the coil tap would work for fourth position in tap mode. So I think all the variants are achievable, it's just wiring the switching that's going to be questionable. I don't have the AZ yet so I don't know what the switches look like, just trying to make sure my plan's going to work when I have it.
> 
> Ideally in tap mode first position would be voice two of the humbucker, too. This is going to get crazy, isn't it?



good fucking luck.

seriously. I'm praying for you.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

Ha, yeah, it's going to be nasty. Found the stock DynaMix9 diagram, at least, and it's just a super switch and a 3PDT. Doesn't look _that_ wacky.

Is the SCO output on the Classic impacted by the voicing switch?


----------



## diagrammatiks

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Ha, yeah, it's going to be nasty. Found the stock DynaMix9 diagram, at least, and it's just a super switch and a 3PDT. Doesn't look _that_ wacky.
> 
> Is the SCO output on the Classic impacted by the voicing switch?



who the fuck knows. fishman sure doesn't. 

I will tell you that you will not be able to do that switching with just a 3 way switch and a 5 way for the fishmans because several of those options need different hot leads or preamp outputs.


----------



## Ralyks

Out of curiosity, I talked before about doing different combos of Fishmans in my Strandberg, but I should probably ask, has anyone mixed and match? Unless I decide to do the routing for Tosins, I'm still debating between Open Core Classics, Merrows, and Javiers for my Fusion Neck Thru.


----------



## Quiet Coil

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Is the SCO output on the Classic impacted by the voicing switch?



On the “open core” or whatever they’re called, no it does not. On the original covered Classics, yes it does (or did previously if they’ve since changed it).

All of the newer models treat splitting as “Voice 3” whereas the original Modern, Classic, and SRC set (possibly more) have a more typical split that’s then altered by switching between Voice 1 and 2.

EDIT: I know all of this because I’ve got a Modern set in my current 7 wherein the selected voice affects the split mode.

On the other hand the open core Classic set I threw into my KM-7 MkII was wired to select voice via Freeway 6-position toggle, and split via push-pull volume. Splitting overrode whichever voice was selected.


----------



## Corporial Bodies

Hi guys I have a question about wiring up these pup, I have the moderns btw.
Unsure if this has been asked before so sorry if it has, I have a schecter c7 hellraiser that has a 3 pots and a 3 way switch not 2 or 4 like the diagrams, what would be the best way to wire this configuration up?


----------



## Abrahadabra

Hello guys ! I have a question for you. I'm about to buy 2 Fishman Fluence Modern humbuckers and a single width in order to realize a HSH configuration for my strat-like guitar. On this config, i want to wire 3 push-pulls (vol/tone 1/tone 2) and a 5-way switch to have 4 modes : voice 1 (default), voice 2, inner coil tapping and HF Tilt.
I've tried to figure out how to wire those elements and i did a wiring diagram by combinating the Javier Reyes one , the HSH one and the coil tapping one.

This is my wiring diagram below. I'm a noob in wiring and electronics, and i wanted someone to check this and tell me if it's good or not. 


Here's a little legend of the wires for you to make my diagram more readable:

Neck pickup:
- Turquoise wire is Inner coil tap
- Grey is ground
- Green is voice 2
- Rose is voice 1
- Marine Blue is HF Tilt
- Red goes to the battery

Middle pickup:
- Orange is voice 1
- Purple is HF Tilt
- Flashy Green is voice 2
- Grey is ground
- Red goes to the battery

Bridge pickup:
- Grey is ground
- Rose is voice 1
- Yellow is HF Tilt
- Orange is voice 2
- Red goes to the battery

There're also two red capacitors on the tone P/P pots as most of the diagrams i saw include them.

Thanks for the attention you'd pay to it,

Abrahadabra.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Abrahadabra said:


> Hello guys ! I have a question for you. I'm about to buy 2 Fishman Fluence Modern humbuckers and a single width in order to realize a HSH configuration for my strat-like guitar. On this config, i want to wire 3 push-pulls (vol/tone 1/tone 2) and a 5-way switch to have 4 modes : voice 1 (default), voice 2, inner coil tapping and HF Tilt.
> I've tried to figure out how to wire those elements and i did a wiring diagram by combinating the Javier Reyes one , the HSH one and the coil tapping one.
> 
> This is my wiring diagram below. I'm a noob in wiring and electronics, and i wanted someone to check this and tell me if it's good or not.
> View attachment 80445
> 
> Here's a little legend of the wires for you to make my diagram more readable:
> 
> Neck pickup:
> - Turquoise wire is Inner coil tap
> - Grey is ground
> - Green is voice 2
> - Rose is voice 1
> - Marine Blue is HF Tilt
> - Red goes to the battery
> 
> Middle pickup:
> - Orange is voice 1
> - Purple is HF Tilt
> - Flashy Green is voice 2
> - Grey is ground
> - Red goes to the battery
> 
> Bridge pickup:
> - Grey is ground
> - Rose is voice 1
> - Yellow is HF Tilt
> - Orange is voice 2
> - Red goes to the battery
> 
> There're also two red capacitors on the tone P/P pots as most of the diagrams i saw include them.
> 
> Thanks for the attention you'd pay to it,
> 
> Abrahadabra.



Where's the preamp in and preamp out wire on the single width?

Are you going to hardwire it so that only the single width uses the single width pre?

Actually thinking about it..if you are using a 5 way and not auto-tapping in position 2/4 then that diagram should work.


----------



## Abrahadabra

Hi diagrammatiks, thanks a lot for your help! 

On the single width, the preamp out is the orange wire and the preamp in would be soldered to the coil out (they're not represented on my diagram because apparently according to Fishman diagrams i don't need them) as in the HSH diagram provided by Fishman. And i don't know if it is necessary to add the single width preamp to the humbuckers that are already very powerful...Is it worth it to wire the preamp to the humbuckers? 
By the way (and because i'm a total noob at electronics), what is auto-tapping?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Abrahadabra said:


> Hi diagrammatiks, thanks a lot for your help!
> 
> On the single width, the preamp out is the orange wire and the preamp in would be soldered to the coil out (they're not represented on my diagram because apparently according to Fishman diagrams i don't need them) as in the HSH diagram provided by Fishman. And i don't know if it is necessary to add the single width preamp to the humbuckers that are already very powerful...Is it worth it to wire the preamp to the humbuckers?
> By the way (and because i'm a total noob at electronics), what is auto-tapping?



no you don't need it for moderns since they don't have the SCO tab.

You can hardwire the Single Width to it's own preamp and use the preamp out as your hot lead for that pickup.

auto-tapping is when the buckers are tapped in positions 2 and 4 to match the middle pickup. It's kind of complicated to do on the fluence but you aren't doing it so it's fine.


----------



## Abrahadabra

Ok right, thanks for your help and your explanations, i hope my diagram will work when i'll be soldering all the elements and that i'll be able to use the 3 modes with the push/pulls . 
I had just a last question: is it possible to activate the 3 modes together by pulling the pots (voice 2 + HF Tilt + single coil) and doing combinations with the push-pulls (voice 1 + HF Tilt + humbuckers or voice 1 + single coil only...)?


----------



## Ralyks

So I went ahead and ordered a Tosin set for my Strandberg Original 7, and a Javier set and a SS Single for my Boden Fusion NT. Now if a place was actually open right now near me for installation, but at least I already have them coming and ready to go.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Ralyks said:


> So I went ahead and ordered a Tosin set for my Strandberg Original 7, and a Javier set and a SS Single for my Boden Fusion NT. Now if a place was actually open right now near me for installation, but at least I already have them coming and ready to go.



Nice choices. Please compare the Javiers against the Tosins if you got the time. I really like the Tosins in V1 but I am also curious with how the Javier set stacks up with its relatively scooped eq.


----------



## elkoki

Corporial Bodies said:


> Hi guys I have a question about wiring up these pup, I have the moderns btw.
> Unsure if this has been asked before so sorry if it has, I have a schecter c7 hellraiser that has a 3 pots and a 3 way switch not 2 or 4 like the diagrams, what would be the best way to wire this configuration up?




You can wire it in with 2 pots and leave one pot without any use. I had the same setup as you (C7 + Moderns) and I followed the 2 pot diagram and added a mini switch for coil tap. If you feel you can manage that, that's not a bad way to wire it up.


----------



## Corporial Bodies

Cheers for your reply, I got in touch with fishman and they gave me a diagram, they replied back to me within 20mins as well which was a shocker. Think I might have an issue though, for some reason the volume pot for the bridge doesnt seem to turn the volume down all the way where as the neck volume does.


----------



## elkoki

Corporial Bodies said:


> Cheers for your reply, I got in touch with fishman and they gave me a diagram, they replied back to me within 20mins as well which was a shocker. Think I might have an issue though, for some reason the volume pot for the bridge doesnt seem to turn the volume down all the way where as the neck volume does.



Is the volume pot properly grounded? If the pot has an actual problem maybe you can swap it out? Fluence sets usually come with 4 pots right?

Which diagram did you use? Can I see it?


----------



## Ralyks

I just dropped off my Boden Fusion to get a Javier Reyes set and a SSA installed, so I’ll check back with that hopefully by the end of the week.

I also ordered a Tosin set for my Boden Original 7, but they sent me soap bars when I needed the model with tabs. Otherwise a bunch of routing that I did not want to see, would have been pricey, and was pretty unnecessary. But Zzounds would take them back because the plastic (that was barely on there to begin with) was taken off. I normally do a lot of business with Zzounds so that was a bummer. So the local shop is ordering me the model with the tabs, and I managed to sell the soap bar pickups (unfortunately at a bit of a loss, but it is what it is). Hopefully those are in this week.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Has anyone installed passive sized moderns in an Ibanez RG (6 and/or 7)? Did you have to route the body wood at all on the bottom or sides?


----------



## elkoki

TheShreddinHand said:


> Has anyone installed passive sized moderns in an Ibanez RG (6 and/or 7)? Did you have to route the body wood at all on the bottom or sides?



If the Ibanez has pickup rings more than likely it won't need any mods. But if it's got the pickups direct mounted you will almost definitely have to make the pickup slots bigger for Fluences or any pickup with covers on it. Pretty much any standard humbucker without a cover will fit an Ibanez with little to no mods. Usually it's the cover on the pickups that add more bulk and force people to widen the slots.

Fluence does have the "open core" classic pickups that look and are shaped like standard pickups, those may fit without any mods, but I don't have the dimensions on them.

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/fluence_electric_guitar_pickup_dimensions.pdf


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Yeah it’s direct mount and I realized quickly after posting that all the corners are rounded so the guitar would need routing for sure. Thanks!


----------



## Tisca

@Ralyks 

Cool. plz let us know how you like them


----------



## Ralyks

So I dropped my Fusion off Tuesday to get the Javier set and SSA (plus a tremol-no) installed. Guy said it should be done end of week. Cool. Calls yesterday. He was about done, but turns out the neck pickup was bad. Like, visible damage to the circuit board. So he’s contacting Fishman to see if they will send a replacement, which he seemed certain they will, having worked with them in past and it was a faulty product. But man, between getting the wrong Tosin set (which I’ve since received the correct set) and this, I'm just having the best luck


----------



## elkoki

Ralyks said:


> So I dropped my Fusion off Tuesday to get the Javier set and SSA (plus a tremol-no) installed. Guy said it should be done end of week. Cool. Calls yesterday. He was about done, but turns out the neck pickup was bad. Like, visible damage to the circuit board. So he’s contacting Fishman to see if they will send a replacement, which he seemed certain they will, having worked with them in past and it was a faulty product. But man, between getting the wrong Tosin set (which I’ve since received the correct set) and this, I'm just having the best luck


As long as he didnt fry the circuit board and blamed it on fluence then cool. Sometimes these techs man... they really do some dumb sh*t . I know from experience..


----------



## Ralyks

elkoki said:


> As long as he didnt fry the circuit board and blamed it on fluence then cool. Sometimes these techs man... they really do some dumb sh*t . I know from experience..



Not sure what happened, but he said it was working split but not in full humbucker mode.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I like the tone of my J Larada (basswood body + wenge neck + ebony fingerboard) and I’m wondering if putting the Abasi set in another guitar with basswood body + maple neck + rosewood fingerboard would give similar results.

My main fear is to end up with a super bright tone with way too much hair.

Can’t find any detailed pickup EQ info for the Abasi set on Fishman’s website (except peak frequency info).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I like the tone of my J Larada (basswood body + wenge neck + ebony fingerboard) and I’m wondering if putting the Abasi set in another guitar with basswood body + maple neck + rosewood fingerboard would give similar results.
> 
> My main fear is to end up with a super bright tone with way too much hair.
> 
> Can’t find any detailed pickup EQ info for the Abasi set on Fishman’s website (except peak frequency info).



They're like EMG in which they don't show the EQ, just the peak freq. You have to go by word of mouth with how they sound.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

That kinda sucks when you wanna match pickups with tone wood.

I’ve played the Abasi set in my Larada, but it’s pretty hard (for me) to infer from there how these pickups would sound with a different neck-fingerboard wood.


----------



## diagrammatiks

nope not tone wooding today.

they'll probably sound fine.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

diagrammatiks said:


> nope not tone wooding today.
> 
> they'll probably sound fine.



Yeah. Honestly given all the guitars I've played through; it's less about tone wood and just the tonal quality of the guitar itself. I've played alder and swamp ash guitars that sound dull and Basswood and mahogany guitars that sound bright and snappy


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Sure, bridge/neck type, chambered/non-chambered, scale length and assembly are important.

@diagrammatiks I didn’t want to morph this into a tone wood discussion (which I hate), I was just wondering if anybody had tried the Abasi set in a guitar with the specs I listed above. I guess not.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

double post


----------



## WYLD STALLYNS

diagrammatiks said:


> nope not tone wooding today.
> 
> they'll probably sound fine.


 +1



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah. Honestly given all the guitars I've played through; it's less about tone wood and just the tonal quality of the guitar itself. I've played alder and swamp ash guitars that sound dull and Basswood and mahogany guitars that sound bright and snappy


+2 

And +3, it won’t be much different, if at all. Your post and questions are legit and I would wonder them myself with passives, but with Fluence, somewhat like EMG, I think the only thing that makes any “slight” difference is the body/wood, meaning the size/shape of the body and the type of wood [both the tone/tree and whether its a chambered or solid body] as the question does ask.....

But you know, at this point, it would be minimal, just a guess myself, but after years of trial and error, most of these Veteran (like Jazzhands and diagramatakis) tend to have a lot of good info about these products, so besides agreeing with their posts, I tend to agree with them as well for whatever that’s worth


----------



## elkoki

Ralyks said:


> Not sure what happened, but he said it was working split but not in full humbucker mode.


I hope this isnt a common problem with Fluences. I have an unused extra set that I'm trying to sell, wouldn't want a buyer to get a broken pickup.


----------



## Ralyks

elkoki said:


> I hope this isnt a common problem with Fluences. I have an unused extra set that I'm trying to sell, wouldn't want a buyer to get a broken pickup.



Nah, I've had a couple sets now and this is the first time anything like that had happened. Otherwise I'd be concerned too because I plan on selling the Moderns I'm taking out my 7 to put Tosins into.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Sure, bridge/neck type, chambered/non-chambered, scale length and assembly are important.
> 
> @diagrammatiks I didn’t want to morph this into a tone wood discussion (which I hate), I was just wondering if anybody had tried the Abasi set in a guitar with the specs I listed above. I guess not.



I have the Abasi set on one of my basswood DXMG. Basswood, Maple neck, Rosewood board. The Abasis are bright but not too bright in there. It was brighter in my Alder Soloist. The treble on the Abasis is on the sweeter side vs the agressive highs on a Modern.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

MASS DEFECT said:


> I have the Abasi set on one of my basswood DXMG. Basswood, Maple neck, Rosewood board. The Abasis are bright but not too bright in there. It was brighter in my Alder Soloist. The treble on the Abasis is on the sweeter side vs the agressive highs on a Modern.



Thanks a lot for the info. I had an apprehension of the highs, having tested moderns on this guitar and not having liked all the “hair” they add.


----------



## Ralyks

Update: Fishman is sending the guitar tech a replacement Javier neck pickup, so that solves that. In the meantime, since they need to wait on that, I dropped my Strandberg 7 off to have the Tosins installed and do a set up, and that should hopefully be done by the end of the week.


----------



## hensh!n

Ralyks said:


> Update: Fishman is sending the guitar tech a replacement Javier neck pickup, so that solves that. In the meantime, since they need to wait on that, I dropped my Strandberg 7 off to have the Tosins installed and do a set up, and that should hopefully be done by the end of the week.



Did Fishman send you a dud?


----------



## Ralyks

hensh!n said:


> Did Fishman send you a dud?



I ordered the set from Zzounds and yeah, the board on the neck pickup turned out to be bent up and only working in like one position.


----------



## Spicypickles

There seems to be quite a few buggy fishmans out there. Are the electronics in them really temperamental or something? Perhaps getting screwed up in shipping?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Spicypickles said:


> There seems to be quite a few buggy fishmans out there. Are the electronics in them really temperamental or something? Perhaps getting screwed up in shipping?


 
When I did have any issues it was because of some bad solder joints (which were totally my fault)

The 4 sets I've gotten my hands on have worked fine.


----------



## binz

I want to buy a solar a2.7 with maple neck (neck-thru) / fretboard and mahagony body and put Fishmans in.

After reading here and watching a lot of reviews and demos in YouTube I would go for the Tosin Abasi set. The low strings just sound ridiculous with these, never saw something similar. Also they seem super clear where you can hear every string when playing chords in distortion. I also like the possibility of having a single coil sound. Don't know about the passive humbucker option tbh. 

Can somebody tell me roughly the differences to moderns and anything else I should have in mind before buying them? 

The guitar is white matte with black hardware. I think I'm still gonna go with the black or back nickel finish because I don't like when 'colored' finishes don't match 100% (the white body paint and white pickups).


----------



## elkoki

KnightBrolaire said:


> When I did have any issues it was because of some bad solder joints (which were totally my fault)
> 
> The 4 sets I've gotten my hands on have worked fine.



There's probably a few bad ones out there. If I remember correctly Agufish on YT had a problem with a dead pickup too. I think it was on his Hello Kitty project guitar video


----------



## Corporial Bodies

Holy shit, ok so I was giving up on my moderns, just sounded to shrill and couldn't get a good clean tone, but I thought I'd try the low gain option, did the jumper thing and wow, cant believe how much of a difference it has made, so much better, the cleans are so much better now and the treble is alot more controllable, lovely and chime like. Dirty sound now sound amazing to, loads more clarity and more chunk, seems like there working just how I want them to now, feel like a fool for not trying it earlier.


----------



## elkoki

Corporial Bodies said:


> Holy shit, ok so I was giving up on my moderns, just sounded to shrill and couldn't get a good clean tone, but I thought I'd try the low gain option, did the jumper thing and wow, cant believe how much of a difference it has made, so much better, the cleans are so much better now and the treble is alot more controllable, lovely and chime like. Dirty sound now sound amazing to, loads more clarity and more chunk, seems like there working just how I want them to now, feel like a fool for not trying it earlier.



What guitar do you have them in? I was thinking of getting another set of moderns and trying either the HF tilt or low gain option. I had Moderns before but I don't know why I never bothered to try those other wiring options.


----------



## Corporial Bodies

I have them in a schector c7 hellraiser. I wouldn't bother with the hf tilt personally I'd just put the jumpers on the back and enjoy, they are so much more usable now imho, seems like they have more of a wider tone now if that makes sense, at least in my setup.


----------



## Guamskyy

Corporial Bodies said:


> I have them in a schector c7 hellraiser. I wouldn't bother with the hf tilt personally I'd just put the jumpers on the back and enjoy, they are so much more usable now imho, seems like they have more of a wider tone now if that makes sense, at least in my setup.



So what exactly is the jumper mod? I bought a schecter c7 sls elite that came with moderns and they were okay in high gain but terrible for cleans IMO and instantly switched them out for the Tosin set- a HUGE difference all across the board (pun intended) and the single coil voicing is easily the best "single coil" sound I've ever gotten from humbucking pickups, which includes coil tapping pickups from varieties of Seymour Duncan, Dimarzio, & Bare Knuckle.


----------



## Corporial Bodies

So when you buy the pickups, they come with a jumper that you can use for the low gain mod which just evolves sliding it on to the back of the pickup basically.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Can anyone verify what value of capacitor they're using on their tone pot? I just added a tone to my RGD multi-scale and while the schematics all say 0.22uF I've tried two and get only a very, _very_ slight change in tone. Or is that perhaps by design? It's been long enough since I've had a set in a guitar with a tone that I can't recall.


----------



## elkoki

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Can anyone verify what value of capacitor they're using on their tone pot? I just added a tone to my RGD multi-scale and while the schematics all say 0.22uF I've tried two and get only a very, _very_ slight change in tone. Or is that perhaps by design? It's been long enough since I've had a set in a guitar with a tone that I can't recall.



They say 224k and 250 under neath, not sure what that translates to I don't know shit about electronics.


----------



## Quiet Coil

elkoki said:


> They say 224k and 250 under neath, not sure what that translates to I don't know shit about electronics.



Thanks. Ended up going with a 0.47 I had in my parts drawer, no doubt from a set of Blackouts from years ago.

Gives a really broad sweep, but with the amount of presence the Fluence pickups push, still totally useable in all positions. Really digging the variety of sounds I can achieve now, especially when playing clean.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Something weird happened today, need your input here. I bought a 7-string open-core set from Amazon, received it earlier today, all good except when I looked at the bottom of the pickups, see pics! I really don't know what to make of this?










Sorry for the shaky phone pics, but here's my dilemma. The slugs/screws are installed correctly for both neck & bridge pickups...BUT....they're both Classic Bridge pickups?!!!!! Don't they have different tonalities/voicings? U guys have an idea what's going on here? Did Fishman change something, or should I simply exchange this set?


----------



## elkoki

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Something weird happened today, need your input here. I bought a 7-string open-core set from Amazon, received it earlier today, all good except when I looked at the bottom of the pickups, see pics! I really don't know what to make of this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the shaky phone pics, but here's my dilemma. The slugs/screws are installed correctly for both neck & bridge pickups...BUT....they're both Classic Bridge pickups?!!!!! Don't they have different tonalities/voicings? U guys have an idea what's going on here? Did Fishman change something, or should I simply exchange this set?



Interesting that the slugs are correct but both say bridge . You should contact Fishman and see what they say . Could be that it is a neck pickup just mislabeled


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I sent them an email and will update here when I hear back.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Pics are dead for me.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pics are dead for me.



Can't edit the post, here they are again, different hosting option.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay now I see what you mean. Hopefully it's just some print error. Should def get in contact with Fishman or Amazon.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I did both, will exchange for another from Amazon, and wait for Fishman's support to shed some light. I decided to return after I compared it to the neck pickup of a Merrow set I have. The Classic open-core neck pickup should be Rev4.1 (not 5.1), and it should have Classic neck printed on the back.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Fishman rep responded and said I should exchange it, that was not right, neck pickup has to be marked clearly as such.


----------



## Tiger1016

Whew I made it all of the way through this marathon thread, and had something that is worthy of my first post here at Sevenstring. I just sent this same message to Fishman directly, but since they still have not respond to a different question that I sent them 2 weeks ago and are notorious for bad customer service, I don’t have much hope they will be responsive and helpful here. So maybe someone else here will be able to help.

Something seems incorrect in the Javier Reyes Fluence wiring diagram for the “Artist Preferred Wiring” method (diagram attached below).

This is regarding the Single Coil Mode Select on the Neck pickup, where the wiring diagram states to “Remove Solder Bridge” and wire the signal path from the Solder Bridge to the Superswitch in order to be able to choose between the inner and outer coils in selector Positions 2 & 4. 

The diagram makes sense for Position #4 (Neck Voice 3 outer coil) given that the Outer/Neck coil portion of the Solder Bridge connects with the middle portion of the Solder Bridge. However, there is nothing in this wiring diagram that connects the Inner/Bridge coil portion of the Solder Bridge to the middle portion of the Solder Bridge for Position #2, which is supposed to be the Inner/Bridge coil on the Neck pickup.

Is there an omission in the wiring diagram, and does there also need to be a separate wire running from the Bridge coil portion of the Solder Bridge to the Superswitch in order for Position #2 to function as stated? Or does the Neck pickup actually default to the Inner/Bridge single coil even if the Solder Bridge is removed and no functioning connection is made to one side or the other (and does this mean that the Bridge pickup defaults to the Inner/Neck single coil if no selection is made either)? 

I am needing to figure out the specifics because I am planning out my wiring diagram for the Keith Merrow set, which has the same wiring options as the Reyes. I am wanting my wiring diagram to function with Position #2 to be the Inner coils from both pickups combined, while Position #4 is the Outer coils from both pickups combined, and then in Positions 1 3 and 5 I can select the Neck side coils from either pickup if I toggle to Voice 3. This plan involves two 3 way on-on-on mini switches for independent voicing switches for each pickup, and, if I am not mistaken, I would be able to wire this up in a way where I can 1) toggle to Voice 3 from these voicing switches and 2) also wire the Voice 3 pin signal path to passthrough from the mini toggle, if Voice 1 or 2 is selected, to the Superswitch so that I can arrange for Positions 2 & 4 to ‘auto tap’/select Voice 3 in those positions. 

There is one last question that could complicate my plan some depending on the answers above. Do the Single Coil Select options on the Solder Bridge carry signal like the HF Tilt pad (so that they cannot share a switch contact) or do they not carry a signal like the voice select pins (so that they can share a switch contact)?


----------



## feilong29

Spicypickles said:


> There seems to be quite a few buggy fishmans out there. Are the electronics in them really temperamental or something? Perhaps getting screwed up in shipping?



The Reyes set I bought recently, the bridge pickup didn't work. I thought I did the wiring wrong when I hooked them up to my Freeway 6-way toggle switch because the bridge would not work in positions 1, 3, and 5, but the neck worked for positions 2, 4, 6. Swapped the pickups around and the neck worked in positions 1, 3, 5. Also, the soldering point for the single-coil mode selection came off when desoldering the connection. Sweetwater sent me a new set, so hopefully a new pup fixes the issue. Such a bummer cause I'm in Japan it takes a year and a day to get stuff haha.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Tiger1016 said:


> Whew I made it all of the way through this marathon thread, and had something that is worthy of my first post here at Sevenstring. I just sent this same message to Fishman directly, but since they still have not respond to a different question that I sent them 2 weeks ago and are notorious for bad customer service, I don’t have much hope they will be responsive and helpful here. So maybe someone else here will be able to help.
> 
> Something seems incorrect in the Javier Reyes Fluence wiring diagram for the “Artist Preferred Wiring” method (diagram attached below).
> 
> This is regarding the Single Coil Mode Select on the Neck pickup, where the wiring diagram states to “Remove Solder Bridge” and wire the signal path from the Solder Bridge to the Superswitch in order to be able to choose between the inner and outer coils in selector Positions 2 & 4.
> 
> The diagram makes sense for Position #4 (Neck Voice 3 outer coil) given that the Outer/Neck coil portion of the Solder Bridge connects with the middle portion of the Solder Bridge. However, there is nothing in this wiring diagram that connects the Inner/Bridge coil portion of the Solder Bridge to the middle portion of the Solder Bridge for Position #2, which is supposed to be the Inner/Bridge coil on the Neck pickup.
> 
> Is there an omission in the wiring diagram, and does there also need to be a separate wire running from the Bridge coil portion of the Solder Bridge to the Superswitch in order for Position #2 to function as stated? Or does the Neck pickup actually default to the Inner/Bridge single coil even if the Solder Bridge is removed and no functioning connection is made to one side or the other (and does this mean that the Bridge pickup defaults to the Inner/Neck single coil if no selection is made either)?
> 
> I am needing to figure out the specifics because I am planning out my wiring diagram for the Keith Merrow set, which has the same wiring options as the Reyes. I am wanting my wiring diagram to function with Position #2 to be the Inner coils from both pickups combined, while Position #4 is the Outer coils from both pickups combined, and then in Positions 1 3 and 5 I can select the Neck side coils from either pickup if I toggle to Voice 3. This plan involves two 3 way on-on-on mini switches for independent voicing switches for each pickup, and, if I am not mistaken, I would be able to wire this up in a way where I can 1) toggle to Voice 3 from these voicing switches and 2) also wire the Voice 3 pin signal path to passthrough from the mini toggle, if Voice 1 or 2 is selected, to the Superswitch so that I can arrange for Positions 2 & 4 to ‘auto tap’/select Voice 3 in those positions.
> 
> There is one last question that could complicate my plan some depending on the answers above. Do the Single Coil Select options on the Solder Bridge carry signal like the HF Tilt pad (so that they cannot share a switch contact) or do they not carry a signal like the voice select pins (so that they can share a switch contact)?
> 
> View attachment 83576



man I lot of this stuff you're going to have to figure out by experimentation.

honestly, if you've thought about it this hard...you already know more then any of the techs that are answering emails right now. They are not helpful and say things that directly contradict the diagrams.

It looks to me like with the solder bridge disconnected the pickup will default to the bridge coil on voice 3.


----------



## Tiger1016

diagrammatiks said:


> It looks to me like with the solder bridge disconnected the pickup will default to the bridge coil on voice 3.



That would be ideal if this turned out to be the case since it would make multiple single coil wiring options possible and a lot easier. Hoping to hear that someone has already done some experimentation and can confirm or deny.

I just recently learned how to wrap my mind around wiring schemes, but the execution part is the problem for me. I have only done 1 pick up swap myself so far, so I am way out of my league with trying to pull off the soldering olympics coming up for my plan which involves a superswitch, 2 on-on-on toggles, 3 push pulls, 1 volume 2 tone and 1 blender pot. So my plan was to mastermind the plan and bring it in to a tech to actually implement, which restricts my ability to experiment.


----------



## elkoki

Tiger1016 said:


> That would be ideal if this turned out to be the case since it would make multiple single coil wiring options possible and a lot easier. Hoping to hear that someone has already done some experimentation and can confirm or deny.
> 
> I just recently learned how to wrap my mind around wiring schemes, but the execution part is the problem for me. I have only done 1 pick up swap myself so far, so I am way out of my league with trying to pull off the soldering olympics coming up for my plan which involves a superswitch, 2 on-on-on toggles, 3 push pulls, 1 volume 2 tone and 1 blender pot. So my plan was to mastermind the plan and bring it in to a tech to actually implement, which restricts my ability to experiment.



Good luck with the wiring. Sometimes even techs need help, they are not always masters of all things guitar.


----------



## Tiger1016

elkoki said:


> Good luck with the wiring. Sometimes even techs need help, they are not always masters of all things guitar.



I know this all too well and have had too many bad experiences with a number of different shops in Houston and Minneapolis, but I found a great option in Houston through a discussion over on the gearpage with Mike Nedd in Houston. 

But I have already started looking around the house for something to rig up a wiring harness for bench testing before doing the actual drop in and install, which will also involve drilling 4 more holes in the (flat top) guitar, which is also the other barrier to entry that scares the shit out of me. Gotta do another pickup swap for an upcoming sell, so I'll see how good I feel about diving in after that.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Tiger1016 said:


> That would be ideal if this turned out to be the case since it would make multiple single coil wiring options possible and a lot easier. Hoping to hear that someone has already done some experimentation and can confirm or deny.
> 
> I just recently learned how to wrap my mind around wiring schemes, but the execution part is the problem for me. I have only done 1 pick up swap myself so far, so I am way out of my league with trying to pull off the soldering olympics coming up for my plan which involves a superswitch, 2 on-on-on toggles, 3 push pulls, 1 volume 2 tone and 1 blender pot. So my plan was to mastermind the plan and bring it in to a tech to actually implement, which restricts my ability to experiment.



definitely test it. 

I'll be testing a abasi + single coil set here soon.

Fluences don't really work like regular pickups.

take a look at the abasi tosin wiring for some crazy shit.


----------



## Tiger1016

diagrammatiks said:


> definitely test it.
> 
> I'll be testing a abasi + single coil set here soon.
> 
> Fluences don't really work like regular pickups.
> 
> take a look at the abasi tosin wiring for some crazy shit.



I know. It is really interesting how some of the Fluences can feed a single coil output into another pickup's preamp input. I was originally planning to go with a HSH setup using the Single Width middle single coil, then switched over to planning out the Abasi set, but settled on the Merrow HH set as the option that seemed to be the best fit for me to try out first. I wound up getting some really helpful input from at Alasdair over at Free-Way Switch who helped me understand this unique routing for the Single Width and Abasi sets better than any information out there for general consumption.

The unique stuff that is possible with some of the Fluence models has me dreaming up a theoretical 6 terminal, 6 position blade switch to take full advantage of all of the possible options in a HSH setup (independent terminal rows for bridge hot, neck hot, Voice 3 grounding, bridge inner/outer coil selection, neck inner/outer coil selection, and SCO routing into the Single Width). It appears that there are some rotary switches that can do all of this (of they would even fit), but anyone with experience with those from older PRS rotary switches knows to avoid these at all costs.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Tiger1016 said:


> Whew I made it all of the way through this marathon thread, and had something that is worthy of my first post here at Sevenstring. I just sent this same message to Fishman directly, but since they still have not respond to a different question that I sent them 2 weeks ago and are notorious for bad customer service, ...
> 
> View attachment 83576



Well, I can attest to that going thru my last order/ordeal, I'm now expecting the 3rd 7-string Classic open-core pickup set from amazon, due Tue. Previous 2 sets had the same issue, correct screw/slug placement but both pickups are bridge pickups (on 1st set), or both are necks (on the 2nd)!!!!! I emailed Fishman and asked if I could return directly to them (so that they can diagnose/fix this issue) in exchange for a brand new set with no such issues, no response.

Re wiring of the JR set, the one I have in my recent Aristides 070R were installed & wired by Aristides, I went for typical independent vol-vol wiring, kept default single coil soldering as-is.


----------



## MarvinMu

Hi, I'm new to this Forum and would like your opinion. I want to switch my Pickups in my 8 string guitar and was thinking about the abasi 8 set. Now I've seen that Reyes also got his his signature model, but i couldnt find much information about it like comparison Videos or any Threads covering that topic. Can anyone explain the reyes a bit compared to other pickups? I'd be especially interested how passive abasi and reyes sound and if they are compressed or not. Thanks for your help!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

MarvinMu said:


> Hi, I'm new to this Forum and would like your opinion. I want to switch my Pickups in my 8 string guitar and was thinking about the abasi 8 set. Now I've seen that Reyes also got his his signature model, but i couldnt find much information about it like comparison Videos or any Threads covering that topic. Can anyone explain the reyes a bit compared to other pickups? I'd be especially interested how passive abasi and reyes sound and if they are compressed or not. Thanks for your help!



I haven't tried the Reyes set yet, but the product page says that the Reyes set has no active voiced option. Both V1 and V2 are passive voiced on the Reyes while the Abasi has an edgier and much more compressed V1 active voice. I only have experience with the Tosins, and V2 passive is a bit more open and sounds at par with his past DiMarzio, but you will still hear some compression in there due to its active design. 

And it sounds like the Reyes on V1 is much more scooped compared to most of the Fluence sig lines, which have an abundance of mids.


----------



## Tiger1016

So I'll be going all out on my install in the spirit of absolute and probably unnecessary optionality and versatility. 

I am going to use four 2 way slide switches (like what is used on Jazzmasters) to be able to individually toggle between inner and outer single coil for Voice 3 as well as HF Tilt on/off for each pickup (using Keith Merrows). Will be installing these switches on the back of the guitar by treating the control cavity cover as a pickguard for the slide switch install. I dont need to mess with this stuff on the fly, and I will figure out a way to recess the switches some so I can't accidentally move them with my shirt.

It seems like I should have enough space in the large control cavity that I have to work with (Kiesel Aries A6E) to get 1V, 2T, blender pot (in place of 2 volumes), super switch, 2 mini switches, kill switch, and then these 4 slide switches on the back plate. But I doubt there will be enough room left to also fit the universal battery pack or even a 9V. So I am looking at the strat battery pack and using double sided tape to slap it on the back of the back plate for the Evertune cover since the strat battery is relatively smaller.

Everything is on order and will be ready for install in a week or so. I will be attempting this install myself despite my amateur soldering abilities at this point. I'll plan to report back on how everything turns out.


----------



## IronSean

Robooze said:


> See if this works: removed due to post count
> 
> It's the link they provide under the fluence signature videos they put on YouTube. Honestly I don't know how they managed to isolate all the sound clips but to me they all sound very different.



Unfortunately sometime over the last four months they killed the link. It’s still in their YouTube video descriptions but the link is dead. Any chance someone has shared a copy?


----------



## IronSean

Has anyone tried the Open core classics in an 8 string? I’ve got a Regius 8 with passive routes, I’m thinking about a Fluence set, but there’s very limited info on their passive formats in 8s that I can find. I wish I would find some good comparisons between the Classics, the Merrows, and the new Javier Reyes models. Does anyone have any experience with any of these in 8s?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

How hot are moderns compared to something like an EMG 57? That's my baseline for actives and if I'm doing any pickup swaps I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about their output. I've heard they aren't as hot as an 81 but I've also heard they have a ridiculous amount of drive, so I'm kind of confused.


----------



## IronSean

TheBolivianSniper said:


> How hot are moderns compared to something like an EMG 57? That's my baseline for actives and if I'm doing any pickup swaps I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about their output. I've heard they aren't as hot as an 81 but I've also heard they have a ridiculous amount of drive, so I'm kind of confused.



They also have a gain reduction you can enable, for -6dB. So that gives you another dimension. And people online might forget to mention that they do or don't have the reduction enabled. I feel like Personally I'd put it on a push-pull so I can pop a gain boost if needed by disabling the reduction.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

TheBolivianSniper said:


> How hot are moderns compared to something like an EMG 57? That's my baseline for actives and if I'm doing any pickup swaps I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about their output. I've heard they aren't as hot as an 81 but I've also heard they have a ridiculous amount of drive, so I'm kind of confused.



You're in luck .


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Huh. I love the 57, I think it's one of the best pickups out there and it sounds great for pretty much any tuning. It does sound a little more "vintage" to me if it makes sense which is why I was hesitant to try it tuned down at first but I really thought it shined in mid-lower tunings like drop c. However I seriously like both voices and the more "modern" (duh) EQ of the fishmans, and the 57 can get a little much with string attack. 

Still have no clue which is better. I prefer both over the 81 but I think the 81x is pretty close to both of the others.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

...The Fishmans are in a league of their own IMHO. When you also consider the other sets available, Tosin Abasi's, Merrow's, Reyes', it becomes a no-brainer, again IMHO, ymmv.

*EDIT:* you can also add the Classics, I love them!


----------



## Apex1rg7x

I have an ESP Stef-TB7 and it obviously has the Stef Fishman's in as of now. I've seen a few people switch the Stef set out for Moderns with favorable results. I'm thinking about ordering a Modern bridge PU and checking out for myself. 

Those that have experience with both, will it be a substantial difference or maybe not even worth the time and money? This will be tuned to G# Standard and will use my Drop pedal to go down to F# as well.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Apex1rg7x said:


> I have an ESP Stef-TB7 and it obviously has the Stef Fishman's in as of now. I've seen a few people switch the Stef set out for Moderns with favorable results. I'm thinking about ordering a Modern bridge PU and checking out for myself.
> 
> Those that have experience with both, will it be a substantial difference or maybe not even worth the time and money? This will be tuned to G# Standard and will use my Drop pedal to go down to F# as well.



The Steph set is my current favorite out of all 7 and 8 string sets, followed by the Abasi set. I personally dislike the Moderns, I find them to be slightly shy on bass and a bit flat and boring sounding but I can't deny that they still sound absolutely great in some guitars. Maybe it's also that I have been playing moderns just a few months after they first became available and I find every other model more interesting and appealing. I know that there have been some revisions and I played some very recent ones as well and still feel the same way about the moderns though.

The Stef set basically has a bigger low end, a more interesting mid frequency character and slightly better and more open dynamics. The Tosin set is fairly similar to the Stef set, but sounding slightly tighter where as the Stef set is slightly more fat, thick and loose sounding, in terms of less compressed to my ears.

I still feel that the biggest con of the Fluence line is that they don't quite achieve the dynamics of a great passive pickup, but when I use the Stef set in the passive voicing I get close enough to it that I mostly don't care about it, especially considering how great they sound and how much clarity they offer.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

BearOnGuitar said:


> The Steph set is my current favorite out of all 7 and 8 string sets, followed by the Abasi set. I personally dislike the Moderns, I find them to be slightly shy on bass and a bit flat and boring sounding but I can't deny that they still sound absolutely great in some guitars. Maybe it's also that I have been playing moderns just a few months after they first became available and I find every other model more interesting and appealing. I know that there have been some revisions and I played some very recent ones as well and still feel the same way about the moderns though.
> 
> The Stef set basically has a bigger low end, a more interesting mid frequency character and slightly better and more open dynamics. The Tosin set is fairly similar to the Stef set, but sounding slightly tighter where as the Stef set is slightly more fat, thick and loose sounding, in terms of less compressed to my ears.
> 
> I still feel that the biggest con of the Fluence line is that they don't quite achieve the dynamics of a great passive pickup, but when I use the Stef set in the passive voicing I get close enough to it that I mostly don't care about it, especially considering how great they sound and how much clarity they offer.


Thanks for the response. Since posting this I got a ESP NT7b with Fluence Moderns and was finally able to check them out. I pretty much agree with everything you said about the difference between the 2 pickups. The Stef set really works for Deftones(obviously) type stuff where its not focused on super tight and articulate riffing. The moderns worked better for me IMO for the drop G Whitechapel type stuff so now that I have both sets in separate guitars, I'm all set haha.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread feels like the best place to ask this.
So I have the Fishman Fluence Modern set installed in my Kiesel Zeus 8, which sound amazing on both voicings, but I've encountered a few things that have left me scratching my head.

First off, they seem to be a bit too hot and aggressive, especially on voicing 1. This isn't a big deal as the solution is to roll off the gain a little. But what bothers me more is the split coil voicing, which I have in the form of a push-pull pot on the tone knob. The split coil tones seem a bit lackluster and missing the kind of attack the pickups do on a non-splitcoil voicing, which was upsetting considering I play primarily in split-coil tones (almost muddy-sounding, even). The feedback on splitcoil mode was a bit much, too.

After doing some research, I came across the Tosin Abasi signature set (I'm a huge AAL fan) and have seen it described as similar to the regular Moderns, but smoother and a bit less aggressive. But what really caught my eye was the description of the split-coil voicing: glossy, glassy, hi-fi. Which is what I was hoping to achieve with the regular Moderns but seemed to have fallen short. (Not to mention seeing some of you saying similar things throughout this thread).

Do you think the Abasi set lives up to this particular hype? Would it be beneficial for me to make the switch to the Abasis or should I experiment with the Moderns some more? My goal here is to try and recreate the split-coil tone / feel that I achieve with the Suhr SSH+ / SSV pickups in my Strandberg Original 6, so perhaps a passive set with good high-output tone for metal and split-coil clarity I've found the Moderns lack (i.e. DiMarzios, Seymour Duncan, etc?)

I play primarily prog rock / metal so good attack and clarity is super important.


----------



## diagrammatiks

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread feels like the best place to ask this.
> So I have the Fishman Fluence Modern set installed in my Kiesel Zeus 8, which sound amazing on both voicings, but I've encountered a few things that have left me scratching my head.
> 
> First off, they seem to be a bit too hot and aggressive, especially on voicing 1. This isn't a big deal as the solution is to roll off the gain a little. But what bothers me more is the split coil voicing, which I have in the form of a push-pull pot on the tone knob. The split coil tones seem a bit lackluster and missing the kind of attack the pickups do on a non-splitcoil voicing, which was upsetting considering I play primarily in split-coil tones (almost muddy-sounding, even). The feedback on splitcoil mode was a bit much, too.
> 
> After doing some research, I came across the Tosin Abasi signature set (I'm a huge AAL fan) and have seen it described as similar to the regular Moderns, but smoother and a bit less aggressive. But what really caught my eye was the description of the split-coil voicing: glossy, glassy, hi-fi. Which is what I was hoping to achieve with the regular Moderns but seemed to have fallen short. (Not to mention seeing some of you saying similar things throughout this thread).
> 
> Do you think the Abasi set lives up to this particular hype? Would it be beneficial for me to make the switch to the Abasis or should I experiment with the Moderns some more? My goal here is to try and recreate the split-coil tone / feel that I achieve with the Suhr SSH+ / SSV pickups in my Strandberg Original 6, so perhaps a passive set with good high-output tone for metal and split-coil clarity I've found the Moderns lack (i.e. DiMarzios, Seymour Duncan, etc?)
> 
> I play primarily prog rock / metal so good attack and clarity is super important.



the current moderns don't have a split coil preamp. So they are basically just half the coil. 
It doesn't sound or really usable at all to my ears. 

The new classics and the abasis have a separate preamp for the split and they sound much much better.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

diagrammatiks said:


> the current moderns don't have a split coil preamp. So they are basically just half the coil.
> It doesn't sound or really usable at all to my ears.
> 
> The new classics and the abasis have a separate preamp for the split and they sound much much better.



That would make sense. But if the Moderns don't have that preamp for splitcoil then why even bother making it a feature until it's done properly?

Looks like I'll go the Tosin route. Unfortunately everywhere I look it's on back-order so it seems I'll be waiting at least a month. *sigh*


----------



## MASS DEFECT

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread feels like the best place to ask this.
> So I have the Fishman Fluence Modern set installed in my Kiesel Zeus 8, which sound amazing on both voicings, but I've encountered a few things that have left me scratching my head.
> 
> First off, they seem to be a bit too hot and aggressive, especially on voicing 1. This isn't a big deal as the solution is to roll off the gain a little. But what bothers me more is the split coil voicing, which I have in the form of a push-pull pot on the tone knob. The split coil tones seem a bit lackluster and missing the kind of attack the pickups do on a non-splitcoil voicing, which was upsetting considering I play primarily in split-coil tones (almost muddy-sounding, even). The feedback on splitcoil mode was a bit much, too.
> 
> After doing some research, I came across the Tosin Abasi signature set (I'm a huge AAL fan) and have seen it described as similar to the regular Moderns, but smoother and a bit less aggressive. But what really caught my eye was the description of the split-coil voicing: glossy, glassy, hi-fi. Which is what I was hoping to achieve with the regular Moderns but seemed to have fallen short. (Not to mention seeing some of you saying similar things throughout this thread).
> 
> Do you think the Abasi set lives up to this particular hype? Would it be beneficial for me to make the switch to the Abasis or should I experiment with the Moderns some more? My goal here is to try and recreate the split-coil tone / feel that I achieve with the Suhr SSH+ / SSV pickups in my Strandberg Original 6, so perhaps a passive set with good high-output tone for metal and split-coil clarity I've found the Moderns lack (i.e. DiMarzios, Seymour Duncan, etc?)
> 
> I play primarily prog rock / metal so good attack and clarity is super important.



The split tones are better on the Tosins but not by far. The single coil tone however on voice 3 is where it's at. The moderns split tones are anemic in comparison. They don't have that high end attack and shimmer.

The Tosin set is more aggressive than the Moderns at least for me. They have more bass, growl, but retains the Modern's sizzle.


----------



## diagrammatiks

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> That would make sense. But if the Moderns don't have that preamp for splitcoil then why even bother making it a feature until it's done properly?
> 
> Looks like I'll go the Tosin route. Unfortunately everywhere I look it's on back-order so it seems I'll be waiting at least a month. *sigh*



eh most pickups don't sound very good split.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

MASS DEFECT said:


> I don't know how you guys tame
> 
> 
> The split tones are better on the Tosins but not by far. The single coil tone however on voice 3 is where it's at. The moderns split tones are anemic in comparison. They don't have that high end attack and shimmer.
> 
> The Tosin set is more aggressive than the Moderns at least for me. They have more bass, growl, but retains the Modern's sizzle.



That's what I'm trying to accomplish with the Moderns - but sounds like voice 3 / single coil is what I'm after. But that makes sense - I was super underwhelmed with how the "split" coils sounded with the Moderns.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

I suppose another follow-up question would be how well the Tosins work with a 3-way switch with a push-pull volume pot for voicings 1/2 and a push-pull tone pot for voicing 3 (single coil), if that configuration would even work. Would a 5-way super switch be necessary?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> I suppose another follow-up question would be how well the Tosins work with a 3-way switch with a push-pull volume pot for voicings 1/2 and a push-pull tone pot for voicing 3 (single coil), if that configuration would even work. Would a 5-way super switch be necessary?



That's how I wire mine. Volume knob changes between V1 and V2. Tone knob pull engages V3 Single Coil and overrides V1 and V2. # way switch just the regular bride, neck, bridge + neck. The superswitch just affords you some cool combinations of splits I think. If you are good with the single coil tone and V1 and V2, there's no need for a super switch.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

Ooooh I like that. I looked at the wiring diagram and that seems like the five-way switching is similar to how my Strandberg selects the coils - and it spanks. Thankfully super switches are relatively inexpensive.


----------



## diagrammatiks

robotwithhumanhair22 said:


> I suppose another follow-up question would be how well the Tosins work with a 3-way switch with a push-pull volume pot for voicings 1/2 and a push-pull tone pot for voicing 3 (single coil), if that configuration would even work. Would a 5-way super switch be necessary?



You just can't do tosins super cool special wiring using 2 push pulls. 

But, you can select all the voicings no problem.


----------



## juka

Still wondering what their reasons might have been to NOT update the moderns when they added the 3rd voice to the classics.


----------



## robotwithhumanhair22

juka said:


> Still wondering what their reasons might have been to NOT update the moderns when they added the 3rd voice to the classics.



My thoughts exactly. They missed a golden opportunity because the Moderns sound immaculate otherwise.


----------



## hensh!n

I'd like to see Fishman do something like a "Modern Classic", a best of both worlds scenario where they have V1 of the Classics, V2 of the Moderns, and some sort of single-coil V3. I loved the clarity and brightness from the Classics, but neither Voice 2 in the Bridge or Neck were of use for me. Even though I don't use V1 on the Moderns all that much, they are useful in certain recording situations (though I prefer V2 on the whole). Never tried the Open Core Classics though. While a single-coil voice is tempting, I'm worried it'll be another completely useless voicing like V2 on the Classics.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Call me a dork, but I like being able to switch voices on my Modern set when coil split, especially when playing clean. That said, I don’t have any real experience with Voice 3 on something like the Abasi set, so I can’t really say I prefer one over the other.


----------



## IronSean

hensh!n said:


> I'd like to see Fishman do something like a "Modern Classic", a best of both worlds scenario where they have V1 of the Classics, V2 of the Moderns, and some sort of single-coil V3. I loved the clarity and brightness from the Classics, but neither Voice 2 in the Bridge or Neck were of use for me. Even though I don't use V1 on the Moderns all that much, they are useful in certain recording situations (though I prefer V2 on the whole). Never tried the Open Core Classics though. While a single-coil voice is tempting, I'm worried it'll be another completely useless voicing like V2 on the Classics.



Aren't the moderns Ceramic magnets with blades and the classics AlNiCo magnets with pole pieces? It's not really possible to mix and match those two things unfortunately. And wht did you dislike about V2 on the Classics? It's supposed to be a bit of a hotter PAF like a JB compared to the classic PAF sound of V1 right? Did you just not have a use for that hotter sound?


----------



## hensh!n

IronSean said:


> Aren't the moderns Ceramic magnets with blades and the classics AlNiCo magnets with pole pieces? It's not really possible to mix and match those two things unfortunately. And wht did you dislike about V2 on the Classics? It's supposed to be a bit of a hotter PAF like a JB compared to the classic PAF sound of V1 right? Did you just not have a use for that hotter sound?



The Moderns do have an Alnico model, while normally used in the Neck it isn't uncommon in the Bridge position either. Considering what Fishman has apparently been able to achieve with the Abasi, Reyes, and Towsend sets, I'm sure they create something that doesn't have two very similar voices in them. 

Regarding the Classics 2nd Bridge Pickup Voice, I found it very "choked" , "throaty", and far too "honkey". Probably a spike in the high-mids that really grated my ears. I was coming from the EMG 57/66 Set at the time, so V2 didn't even come close for me. Though it isn't entirely unlike V1 on the Modern set, just with much less gain making it sound like a high-gain Active Voicing without enough output. Voice 1 was extremely clean and clear, even under high-gain settings which made Voice 2 completely useless for my applications. If I want more gain for V1 I'd adjust the amp or engage a boost. And Voice 2 on the Neck Pickup was too scooped to track and sit in a mix well. I spent way too much time trying to dial in a usable tone before I gave up on it entirely.


----------



## IronSean

hensh!n said:


> The Moderns do have an Alnico model, while normally used in the Neck it isn't uncommon in the Bridge position either. Considering what Fishman has apparently been able to achieve with the Abasi, Reyes, and Towsend sets, I'm sure they create something that doesn't have two very similar voices in them.
> 
> Regarding the Classics 2nd Bridge Pickup Voice, I found it very "choked" , "throaty", and far too "honkey". Probably a spike in the high-mids that really grated my ears. I was coming from the EMG 57/66 Set at the time, so V2 didn't even come close for me. Though it isn't entirely unlike V1 on the Modern set, just with much less gain making it sound like a high-gain Active Voicing without enough output. Voice 1 was extremely clean and clear, even under high-gain settings which made Voice 2 completely useless for my applications. If I want more gain for V1 I'd adjust the amp or engage a boost. And Voice 2 on the Neck Pickup was too scooped to track and sit in a mix well. I spent way too much time trying to dial in a usable tone before I gave up on it entirely.



They may be able to make a pickup that combines two difference voices in a way that gets closer to an active pickup plus a PAF. That would definitely be cool. I'm not convinced it's actually that easy (otherwise they should have done it from the start), but it would probably help people cover a lot of ground with one pickup set.

I just meant they can't literally put V2 from the Modern Bridge and V1 from the Classic Bridge into the same pickup because despite all their marketing, their pickups are still wire wraps and magnets, and those two are very different materials and construction. The Modern neck being an Alnico doesn't help you put Modern Bridge V2 into an AlNiCo pickup. And most of their pickup voicings are usually two shades of the same thing, rather than a completely different voice. I assuming they're adding or removing wraps from winding to add or subtract from the sound of one voice to get the other.


----------



## hensh!n

IronSean said:


> They may be able to make a pickup that combines two difference voices in a way that gets closer to an active pickup plus a PAF. That would definitely be cool. I'm not convinced it's actually that easy (otherwise they should have done it from the start), but it would probably help people cover a lot of ground with one pickup set.
> 
> I just meant they can't literally put V2 from the Modern Bridge and V1 from the Classic Bridge into the same pickup because despite all their marketing, their pickups are still wire wraps and magnets, and those two are very different materials and construction. The Modern neck being an Alnico doesn't help you put Modern Bridge V2 into an AlNiCo pickup. And most of their pickup voicings are usually two shades of the same thing, rather than a completely different voice. I assuming they're adding or removing wraps from winding to add or subtract from the sound of one voice to get the other.



Right, and they don't necessarily have to. I'd just like to see something with more variety and depth that isn't a Signature pickup. I've heard from their artists that the process to designing a pickup is literally going to the artists house, having them play, then adjusting the frequency response to their taste. With that amount of flexibility I'm sure they do something to accommodate players who enjoy features from both Classic and Modern sets, but aren't necessarily in love with what every voice offer in their spectrum. But with NAMM just around the corner, maybe they'll reveal something new. I have tried Tosins set (albeit briefly at a guitar shop) and was pleasantly surprised, though it wasn't with my guitar (or on a setup I was familiar with) therefore it would be difficult to compare them to my experiences on the Classic/Modern set.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I don't really think they have an incentive to make a pickup that does it all.

I don't really think the abasi sounds like the moderns at all. 

but they can probably put more preamps in the all the bar pickups if they wanted too. and more preamps in all the pole piece magnets if they wanted too..

but they aren't going to be able to turn a bar pickup into a pole pickup.

The abasi neck is a hybrid design by the way. It's got one bar coil and one pole coil


----------



## Hoss632

Has anyone in here tried the new Fluence Javier reyes 6 string set?


----------



## Masoo2

This may have been brought up earlier and the thread but I just haven't seen it discussed yet:

Given how hi-fi these Fishmans appear to be (especially voice 3 on the Tosins), has anyone went back and compared them to Lace Alumitones/X-Bars/Deathbars? I remember reading tons of complaints on this forum that the Lace stuff was too hi-fi and pristine, yet that seems to be one of the main draws to the Fishman stuff.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Masoo2 said:


> This may have been brought up earlier and the thread but I just haven't seen it discussed yet:
> 
> Given how hi-fi these Fishmans appear to be (especially voice 3 on the Tosins), has anyone went back and compared them to Lace Alumitones/X-Bars/Deathbars? I remember reading tons of complaints on this forum that the Lace stuff was too hi-fi and pristine, yet that seems to be one of the main draws to the Fishman stuff.


the xbars are way more hi-fi and wide band in terms of frequency ime. The super wide frequency range was more the issue for a lot of metal guys. I know that's why I got rid of them.


----------



## Masoo2

KnightBrolaire said:


> the xbars are way more hi-fi and wide band in terms of frequency ime. The super wide frequency range was more the issue for a lot of metal guys. I know that's why I got rid of them.


It's that wide frequency range that has me really conflicted. I know the cleans will be beautifully clear, to my understanding they perform extremely well with low tunings (ie: low C#), but they (or maybe more so the deathbar specifically) have an inherent fizziness to them which becomes apparent under high gain.

I've always been interested in these ultra clean and hi-fi options (Cycfi, Lace, Fishman) but the entry cost to getting a set of Laces is a whole lot less than an Abasi or Cycfi set. I recall reading a post (maybe it was one of yours) claiming it to be like a Fender Wide Range pickup which is definitely interesting, and I'd likely already have a Lace Aluma90 if they came in 8 string form as that just seems like such an interesting concept.

Choices choices choices...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Masoo2 said:


> It's that wide frequency range that has me really conflicted. I know the cleans will be beautifully clear, to my understanding they perform extremely well with low tunings (ie: low C#), but they (or maybe more so the deathbar specifically) have an inherent fizziness to them which becomes apparent under high gain.
> 
> I've always been interested in these ultra clean and hi-fi options (Cycfi, Lace, Fishman) but the entry cost to getting a set of Laces is a whole lot less than an Abasi or Cycfi set. I recall reading a post (maybe it was one of yours) claiming it to be like a Fender Wide Range pickup which is definitely interesting, and I'd likely already have a Lace Aluma90 if they came in 8 string form as that just seems like such an interesting concept.
> 
> Choices choices choices...


The deathbars have the fizz and a huge mid spike. You'd be better off with the xbar if you're considering Lace. Deathbars are horrible.


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> The deathbars have the fizz and a huge mid spike. You'd be better off with the xbar if you're considering Lace. Deathbars are horrible.


never a truer word spoken!

absolutely bang on


----------



## hensh!n

Masoo2 said:


> It's that wide frequency range that has me really conflicted. I know the cleans will be beautifully clear, to my understanding they perform extremely well with low tunings (ie: low C#), but they (or maybe more so the deathbar specifically) have an inherent fizziness to them which becomes apparent under high gain.



I tried what was either a Lace X-Bar or Deathbar (in a Skervesen I believe) at a boutique guitar shop in Japan. I tested it on an Axe FX III, with a Fryette LX II through a traditional cab (I forget the brand). At first I hated the tone, it was kind of noisy and the feedback seemed to be uncontrollable. I decided to give it another go, but this time through a clean preset. It sounded extremely clear and pristine, almost single coil like. Under another high-gain preset it even retained some of that single coil bite, almost as if it was split. However the drawback was that the EQ itself appeared to be relatively flat despite being Hi-Fi sounding. The feel of the pickups (response) was also stiff. Probably not unlike Fishman's or JBE's (another Hi-Fi type pickup). For what they are, I think they're quite good. They're really sensitive and dynamic if you're a really expressive player. But the flat EQ curve and higher noise floor seems to be the trade-off. You have to know what you're getting into with them.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

The modern ceramic has literally no low end, sounds fucking terrible in standard. Lower than that and I love it, just is a little harder to get my sound out of it. 

For comparison, my current favorite tone is a shit ton of low mids, some sub bass, and high end fizz. 

Of course they're much different and I honestly love the cocked wah sound on single note leads and tuned down they're insanely tight, plus best cleans out of anything. Very hot but dynamic. Very nice, just nothing but mids and that's not really my thing. Ofc I have it dialed in now but at first it was ????


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> The modern ceramic has literally no low end, sounds fucking terrible in standard. Lower than that and I love it, just is a little harder to get my sound out of it.
> 
> For comparison, my current favorite tone is a shit ton of low mids, some sub bass, and high end fizz.
> 
> Of course they're much different and I honestly love the cocked wah sound on single note leads and tuned down they're insanely tight, plus best cleans out of anything. Very hot but dynamic. Very nice, just nothing but mids and that's not really my thing. Ofc I have it dialed in now but at first it was ????


The moderns are way better if you tune like d standard or lower. They have low end even in standard but it's not a lot on v1. V2 is much better for thicker tones


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Have a Falbo 8 string ergo arriving Monday, with the Abasi set. It’s my first set of Fluences, pretty excited to try them after 25 years of tons of SD, EMG, and DiMarzio.


----------



## JoneHoftun

Greetings. Had a few sets of Fishmans before (DT set in a Washburn Ola englund V, and moderns in a Solar 7 string) But just decided on a set of moderns (alnico V bridge) for my Jackson Kelly, and wondering if anyone has tried the in-fluence solderless kit from Mad Hatter products? I can do very simple soldering, but i`m to shaky to rely on soldering the mess that is fishmans


----------



## Miek

I have an RGD71ALMS and it comes stock with what I'm assuming are 7 string versions of the moderns. I haven't had a chance to look under the pickups yet, but I'm assuming the OEM versions should still come with the access to the HF tilt pad and coil split poles, right?

That being the case, the stock switch should be fine for accessing both pickups split on the middle position? it appears to be a dpdt switch like a petrucci style set up would have.


----------



## Humanoid

Just installed a Devin Townsend set to my Solar few days ago. Gotta say I like the hi-gain sound much more than in Moderns. Moderns tend to have a slight distortion or "grit" when palm muting, but DT set sounds a little cleaner. The downside is that Voice 2 and coil splitting is not as good compared to the Moderns. In DT set the differences between voices and coil split are not so massive. But then, I really like the sound when both pickups are used splitted.

And btw, I only installed one push-pull pot because Solar has a 5-way switch which handles the coil-splitting.

I also agree with the comments above: the Moderns sound much better when downtuned to D and lower.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Miek said:


> I have an RGD71ALMS and it comes stock with what I'm assuming are 7 string versions of the moderns. I haven't had a chance to look under the pickups yet, but I'm assuming the OEM versions should still come with the access to the HF tilt pad and coil split poles, right?
> 
> That being the case, the stock switch should be fine for accessing both pickups split on the middle position? it appears to be a dpdt switch like a petrucci style set up would have.



They are indeed (8-string) Moderns with all the standard options, however they’re both Ceramic (vs Ceramice Bridge & Alnico Neck) pickups. I have the same guitar and had it wired up in this very fashion for a short time.

If you want any amount of hum canceling with both pickups selected while split, you’ll need to wire the neck pickup for “outer coil” (both pads). Otherwise you’ll have the same coil selected on two identical pickups (no hum canceling).


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Update, the E1 with moderns is in drop C and is plugged into a Triple Rec. Sounds fucking HUGE. The massive output of the pickups boosts the amp and adds a ton of midrange, balancing out the scooped voicing, and the amp's sub bass thing fills out the moderns' thinner tone. I know an unboosted recto is supposed to be flubby and not saturated tight goodness but the fishmans make it an instant metal machine.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Update, the E1 with moderns is in drop C and is plugged into a Triple Rec. Sounds fucking HUGE. The massive output of the pickups boosts the amp and adds a ton of midrange, balancing out the scooped voicing, and the amp's sub bass thing fills out the moderns' thinner tone. I know an unboosted recto is supposed to be flubby and not saturated tight goodness but the fishmans make it an instant metal machine.



Yep. The moderns sound fantastic with big bottom amps! You wont be needing a boost on that Recto.


----------



## cip 123

Masoo2 said:


> This may have been brought up earlier and the thread but I just haven't seen it discussed yet:
> 
> Given how hi-fi these Fishmans appear to be (especially voice 3 on the Tosins), has anyone went back and compared them to Lace Alumitones/X-Bars/Deathbars? I remember reading tons of complaints on this forum that the Lace stuff was too hi-fi and pristine, yet that seems to be one of the main draws to the Fishman stuff.


I never actually felt the Alumitones had that hi-fi sound at all. I had a HSS set installed in a semi hollow mahogany tele, maybe the hi-fi was offset by the guitar construction but they were pretty thick and never harsh.

Had a Dethbucker in a superstrat and I ended up swapping it since it had no low end. But it would Djent all day. 

Now with fluences I don't think I would really compare them, the Fishmans are closer to other actives imo.


----------



## MarvinMu

Anyone tried to put fluence classics/reyes into a multiscale guitar? Im tempted to do it but Im a bit afraid to sink a shit tone of money


----------



## Chris Bowsman

MarvinMu said:


> Anyone tried to put fluence classics/reyes into a multiscale guitar? Im tempted to do it but Im a bit afraid to sink a shit tone of money



I was talking to Frank Falbo about this. He says as long as the pickup is angled correctly, so the poles are flanking the string, it’s cool. This would be easy in a new build, but could be problematic in an existing route.


----------



## Albake21

So I just installed an Abasi set into my Charvel DK24. The cleans are surprisingly very nice, but holy hell under high gain there is so much noise and feedback. Everything is wired correctly, but for some reason the noise is as loud as a single coil under high gain. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.


----------



## nistley

Albake21 said:


> So I just installed an Abasi set into my Charvel DK24. The cleans are surprisingly very nice, but holy hell under high gain there is so much noise and feedback. Everything is wired correctly, but for some reason the noise is as loud as a single coil under high gain. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.


Thats how it is for me. I think they sound like singles because they are... it's not an EQ curve. Also look at Olas review of Larada 7, insane noise.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

I have the Abasi set in my 8 string. They're wired to a push/pull volume to switch between the 2 voicings, and a 5 way switch. 1,3,5 are the humbuckers alone and combined, which are not noisy in the least. 2 & 4 are single coil combos, which have a bit of noise under heavy gain, but nothing crazy.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

JoneHoftun said:


> ... and wondering if anyone has tried the in-fluence solderless kit from Mad Hatter products? ...



I checked'em out, they look legit, but $100 for a wiring kit? Soldering is not my strongest suit, but for a $100 I don't mind it at all .


----------



## lewis

this is why I dont understand how people are giving Fishman the edge.
Ive used multiple EMG single coils in the past, and all sound amazing and totally noiseless.

Fishman release a set everyone bums because of their incredible options - but if plenty of the said options are insanely noisy options, rendering them useless, whats the point?

Ive seen loads of reviews now about the Abasi set being stupidly noisy. I thought it could have been user installation error - then Ola just reviewed one of the Abasi guitars direct from their Factory. Comes with the Abasi Fishmans installed and its exactly the same in his review too.
Terrible over the top noise.

My modern set get stupid at live volumes too in terms of feedback and noise.
Yet my EMGs always cut better live, and never give me the same feedback/noise options.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Just watched Ola's video. I hear noise on the 2 single coil settings under loads of gain.


----------



## lewis

Chris Bowsman said:


> Just watched Ola's video. I hear noise on the 2 single coil settings under loads of gain.


something EMG single coils dont do - under loads of gain


----------



## Chris Bowsman

lewis said:


> something EMG single coils dont do - under loads of gain



That’s cool, but 2 out of 8 voicings having noise isn’t that big of a deal to me. Especially when they’re tones I wouldn’t use with loads of gain. 

I’ve only tried the Abasis, but voice 2 on the bridge is like the sound I’ve always been trying to get from an 81. All the cut, but with the chunk of an 85.


----------



## hensh!n

lewis said:


> this is why I dont understand how people are giving Fishman the edge.
> Ive used multiple EMG single coils in the past, and all sound amazing and totally noiseless.
> 
> Fishman release a set everyone bums because of their incredible options - but if plenty of the said options are insanely noisy options, rendering them useless, whats the point?
> 
> Ive seen loads of reviews now about the Abasi set being stupidly noisy. I thought it could have been user installation error - then Ola just reviewed one of the Abasi guitars direct from their Factory. Comes with the Abasi Fishmans installed and its exactly the same in his review too.
> Terrible over the top noise.
> 
> My modern set get stupid at live volumes too in terms of feedback and noise.
> Yet my EMGs always cut better live, and never give me the same feedback/noise options.



I think it's people preferring the amount of tonal options/less preamp compression vs the noise. The Classic Set I tried had way more noise compared to the 57/66, but the Classic Set has much better cleans and more tonal options overall (even if I only truly loved 1 or 2 or the sounds). I agree though that the noise issue isn't discussed enough. Fishman state that their pickups are "very low noise", but to me this isn't exactly true in the case of the Classic Set or the Abasi Set (Single Coil Mode).

However my Modern Set doesn't get much noise, and has less preamp compression which creates a more dynamic pick attack (I mostly use the Passive Mode).

One thing I don't love about the traditional Active EMG's is that you lose a lot of transients that are normally felt with traditional passives. And another problem with the preamp compression is Clean tones tend to sound thin and plastic-y (though the Modern set doesn't offer much in terms of Clean tones either). This is why I eventually switched to the RetroActive EMG's, which were a step in the right direction. Although the Fat 55-7 is too muddy and noisy to be usable in the Bridge, and the Super 77-7's were a bit honky in the Bridge and too hot in the Neck. I know they offer the Hot 70 Set, but EMG burned me by refusing to answer my support email regarding a DOA Neck pickup from the Super 77 Set (6-String - since I bought two sets). 

I also have an 81TWX/89TWX set that gets pretty noisy and weak in single coil mode. I read an interview with Richard Kruspe of Rammstein saying he switched over to Fishman pickups for some guitars because they're more consistent, and some of the EMG's pickups he get sound bad (likely a noise issue).

I will say one glassy tone I have been unable to replicate came from the 707TWX/707TWX-R Set I had installed in an ESP FR-7 a few years back. But that was about it. I have been curious about trying the JR Set, but have been hesitant regarding how they still refuse to reply to my DOA Super 77 Neck Pickup email.

It's 2020 and in my estimation, no pickup manufacturer can offer it all in a single pickup (at least for my taste and preferences). And don't even get me started on BKP's...they sound fine enough but are way too expensive for what they are. If I'm paying $300+ for a pickup it better have more than one voice, a wide array of applications, and have little to no noise or volume drop when changing modes.


----------



## lewis

hensh!n said:


> I think it's people preferring the amount of tonal options/less preamp compression vs the noise. The Classic Set I tried had way more noise compared to the 57/66, but the Classic Set has much better cleans and more tonal options overall (even if I only truly loved 1 or 2 or the sounds). I agree though that the noise issue isn't discussed enough. Fishman state that their pickups are "very low noise", but to me this isn't exactly true in the case of the Classic Set or the Abasi Set (Single Coil Mode).
> 
> However my Modern Set doesn't get much noise, and has less preamp compression which creates a more dynamic pick attack (I mostly use the Passive Mode).
> 
> One thing I don't love about the traditional Active EMG's is that you lose a lot of transients that are normally felt with traditional passives. And another problem with the preamp compression is Clean tones tend to sound thin and plastic-y (though the Modern set doesn't offer much in terms of Clean tones either). This is why I eventually switched to the RetroActive EMG's, which were a step in the right direction. Although the Fat 55-7 is too muddy and noisy to be usable in the Bridge, and the Super 77-7's were a bit honky in the Bridge and too hot in the Neck. I know they offer the Hot 70 Set, but EMG burned me by refusing to answer my support email regarding a DOA Neck pickup from the Super 77 Set (6-String - since I bought two sets).
> 
> I also have an 81TWX/89TWX set that gets pretty noisy and weak in single coil mode. I read an interview with Richard Kruspe of Rammstein saying he switched over to Fishman pickups for some guitars because they're more consistent, and some of the EMG's pickups he get sound bad (likely a noise issue).
> 
> I will say one glassy tone I have been unable to replicate came from the 707TWX/707TWX-R Set I had installed in an ESP FR-7 a few years back. But that was about it. I have been curious about trying the JR Set, but have been hesitant regarding how they still refuse to reply to my DOA Super 77 Neck Pickup email.
> 
> It's 2020 and in my estimation, no pickup manufacturer can offer it all in a single pickup (at least for my taste and preferences). And don't even get me started on BKP's...they sound fine enough but are way too expensive for what they are. If I'm paying $300+ for a pickup it better have more than one voice, a wide array of applications, and have little to no noise or volume drop when changing modes.



Such an excellent post!
well written.


----------



## boltzthrower

hensh!n said:


> I...but EMG burned me by refusing to answer my support email regarding a DOA Neck pickup from the Super 77 Set (6-String - since I bought two sets)...



Lame. Kind of off topic here but its interesting to see I'm not the only one who has received duds from EMG. I received a bad 81-7H from EMG back in February. Customer support was good in that they exchanged it for another one, but, the second one was messed up too. First one was very low output, second one was as well but not quite as low as the first. I confirmed their bunkness by swapping them out with a good 81-7H I have. When I sent in the first one they tested it and told me it was slightly lower output than normal which is ridiculous 'cause with amp settings for high gain death metal with my good 81-7H, this dud sounded like AC/DC at best. I decided to keep the second one for recording clean tones. I need a good working replacement but I'm wary of getting burned with a third dud.


----------



## The Thing Upstairs

Has anyone else experienced absolutely awful quality with Fishman products?

I’ve been really keen to try these, first set (Merrow) arrived with a thread missing - it hadn’t been cut. Second set arrived (Modern) with bent casing and a bad thread.

Note all threads were checked by hand before attempting to install. No point with these two sets even trying to install.

I should have cut my losses at this point but didn’t.....

Third set, at last, they managed the physical manufacturing of the pickup OK but the push pull pots were hosed. No pull up!

Just wondered if this is common? I’ve either been blisteringly unlucky or fishman have recently been on a drive to improve margin by cutting some corners that impact quality.


----------



## hensh!n

The Thing Upstairs said:


> Has anyone else experienced absolutely awful quality with Fishman products?
> 
> I’ve been really keen to try these, first set (Merrow) arrived with a thread missing - it hadn’t been cut. Second set arrived (Modern) with bent casing and a bad thread.
> 
> Note all threads were checked by hand before attempting to install. No point with these two sets even trying to install.
> 
> I should have cut my losses at this point but didn’t.....
> 
> Third set, at last, they managed the physical manufacturing of the pickup OK but the push pull pots were hosed. No pull up!
> 
> Just wondered if this is common? I’ve either been blisteringly unlucky or fishman have recently been on a drive to improve margin by cutting some corners that impact quality.



I feel like I've noticed similar comments regarding new Fishman sets within the past year. Hopefully it isn't indicative of a larger quality control issue.


----------



## Chromatizm

So guys, is it a common thing for Fishman Abasi to have a lot of noise in a single-coil mode?

I'm thinking of replacing my MFD pickups in G&L S-500 with Abasi set.
I want to do this because I love the power and flexibility/how versatile MFD's are (and what you can get with all possible pickup combinations, including all three together), BUT the amount of noise and feedback is killing me, especially live. I don't use A LOT of gain, but I play via three boosters (RC, EP and BB+ with both channels engaged), plus I prefer a slightly distorted channels over the clean ones, so the noise is over the roof sometimes. And it is not because I use a lot of gain, no - think Ben Eunson sound - it's because of the pickups and boosters.

And reading the last messages in the thread make me question my choice. I will use a single-coil mode A LOT - I'm totally a Strat-sound kind of guy, but I think I need the rest of the Abasi set voices for many things I play, including straight-ahead jazz and a lot of legato lines.

So I'm not really ready to shell out almost $300 and get the same noise, or maybe even worse. because I was so expecting the single-coil sound without any of the issues connected with it :/

Please advise, is transferring to Abase set worth it?..


----------



## Jonathan20022

I have Abasi's factory installed in my 060, and I barely get any noise in the split positions. I have an Abasi Legion coming in at the end of the week, I'd be super curious if there's any difference in the wiring that's causing that.

Weird that so many people are running into that issue.


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> I have Abasi's factory installed in my 060, and I barely get any noise in the split positions. I have an Abasi Legion coming in at the end of the week, I'd be super curious if there's any difference in the wiring that's causing that.
> 
> Weird that so many people are running into that issue.



Didn't know you grabbed a legion. Congrats


----------



## budda

Chromatizm said:


> So guys, is it a common thing for Fishman Abasi to have a lot of noise in a single-coil mode?
> 
> I'm thinking of replacing my MFD pickups in G&L S-500 with Abasi set.
> I want to do this because I love the power and flexibility/how versatile MFD's are (and what you can get with all possible pickup combinations, including all three together), BUT the amount of noise and feedback is killing me, especially live. I don't use A LOT of gain, but I play via three boosters (RC, EP and BB+ with both channels engaged), plus I prefer a slightly distorted channels over the clean ones, so the noise is over the roof sometimes. And it is not because I use a lot of gain, no - think Ben Eunson sound - it's because of the pickups and boosters.
> 
> And reading the last messages in the thread make me question my choice. I will use a single-coil mode A LOT - I'm totally a Strat-sound kind of guy, but I think I need the rest of the Abasi set voices for many things I play, including straight-ahead jazz and a lot of legato lines.
> 
> So I'm not really ready to shell out almost $300 and get the same noise, or maybe even worse. because I was so expecting the single-coil sound without any of the issues connected with it :/
> 
> Please advise, is transferring to Abase set worth it?..



Lindy Fralin noiseless may suit you better.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

My Abasis are very quiet. I have two different guitars who have em. Even on single coil mode, it is quieter than my Strat pickups. But I dont have my gain way up. And on single coil V3 I just do edge of breakup tones. Of course, you will get some hum when you pile on the gain. It's still a single coil. lol

The Fluence single coil pickups are a bit quieter.


----------



## Jonathan20022

narad said:


> Didn't know you grabbed a legion. Congrats



Yeah man! I initially glossed over them when I saw the Legion reveal, but talked myself into one. Still love the design, and the bolt on neck looks comfortable enough.

Quick Fishman question, might be redundant since I may have already asked this.

But my setup is a 5 way, 1 volume (p/p Voicing), and 1 tone (p/p Splitting). What sets are compatible with this wiring setup without changes? Could I get away with an install of the Devins/Keiths without modifying the wiring at all internally but also getting all of the options those pickups offer?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yeah man! I initially glossed over them when I saw the Legion reveal, but talked myself into one. Still love the design, and the bolt on neck looks comfortable enough.
> 
> Quick Fishman question, might be redundant since I may have already asked this.
> 
> But my setup is a 5 way, 1 volume (p/p Voicing), and 1 tone (p/p Splitting). What sets are compatible with this wiring setup without changes? Could I get away with an install of the Devins/Keiths without modifying the wiring at all internally but also getting all of the options those pickups offer?



Keiths and Classics are what I have tried so far that doesn't require modifying the Abasi wiring.


----------



## hensh!n

MASS DEFECT said:


> My Abasis are very quiet. I have two different guitars who have em. Even on single coil mode, it is quieter than my Strat pickups. But I dont have my gain way up. And on single coil V3 I just do edge of breakup tones. Of course, you will get some hum when you pile on the gain. It's still a single coil. lol
> 
> The Fluence single coil pickups are a bit quieter.



I tried an Abasi set in an Abasi guitar, pickups sounded great (at least on the active voice). Don't remember experiencing any noise with it. However I didn't play it for very long. Just long enough to know that I liked it and want a set.


----------



## Chromatizm

Thanks a lot guys!
Hope it will not hum on me


----------



## Chromatizm

budda said:


> Lindy Fralin noiseless may suit you better.



Thank you, never heard of them. Tried a couple of demos on Youtube (yeah, I know), and I think when talking about passive noiseless I like G&Ls Z Coil better. To my ears they are clearer, punchier and more strat-sounding.


----------



## hensh!n

I decided to purchase an Abasi set, as they now have versions that will match my guitars aesthetic. They should arrive next week.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I ran into a set of Keith Merrows and Devins for a solid price so I grabbed them. 

I know someone mentioned the Keiths would be a retrofit with my current wiring. But does anyone have any experience swapping Abasi -> Devin?

Setup is 5 Way, Vol (P/P Voicing), Tone (P/P Split).


----------



## Jonathan20022

I swapped the Devins in, and they seem to work just fine in the Tosin wiring for my 060.

My tone knob P/P seems to not work for anything, and the Volume P/P seems to split the coils now. 

They sound really good honestly, far less bright and by default they have a lot of bottom end on the lower strings for riffing. However, and I don't know if this is the case for everyone else but my Volume P/P seems to add a lot more upper mid oomph and low end to tones (1/3/5) on the 5 way. Would this be a voicing option? If it is, then I'd really prefer voice 1 to be the default option, with the passive being the pulled pot tone.


----------



## MarvinMu

Hey, 

I have 1 quick question. I want to buy the Abasis for my 8 string and use the Abasi wiring (outer coil splits), but i only have a 3 way switch 1 Tone and 1 Volume Poti. Can i get the abasi wiring with this setup or do i need to get a 5way switch? (In the manual there is no wiring diagram for the abasi wiring with my setup)


----------



## Strobe

MarvinMu said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have 1 quick question. I want to buy the Abasis for my 8 string and use the Abasi wiring (outer coil splits), but i only have a 3 way switch 1 Tone and 1 Volume Poti. Can i get the abasi wiring with this setup or do i need to get a 5way switch? (In the manual there is no wiring diagram for the abasi wiring with my setup)



I have a six string set. You can get all the voices with a 3 way and 2 push-pull switches as I have. I would prefer a 5 way switch, but it works the other way.


----------



## MarvinMu

Strobe said:


> I have a six string set. You can get all the voices with a 3 way and 2 push-pull switches as I have. I would prefer a 5 way switch, but it works the other way.


Thank you for your answer, but i knew that already. What i wanna know is, if it is possible, that i get the outer coil split.

This is from the official Fluence manual wiring for my Setup.







If I compare it to this wiring of the Abasi preferred wiring:





you can see that the NCO And SCO pads are used while they arent in the first diagram everything else seems similar.
I'm not sure, but doesnt this mean that between these wirings there are different coils used?


----------



## juka

When revisiting the Fishman website after some time I just saw that the design of the Keith Merrow Signature seems to have changed from screws and slugs to all slugs. Any known changes to the sound or is it just cosmetics?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

What? The pics on Schecter site for all the KM 2020 models are slugs & screws, so it must be for 2021. All slugs would make them look like some of the other Schecter pickups lol.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MarvinMu said:


> Thank you for your answer, but i knew that already. What i wanna know is, if it is possible, that i get the outer coil split.
> 
> This is from the official Fluence manual wiring for my Setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I compare it to this wiring of the Abasi preferred wiring:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can see that the NCO And SCO pads are used while they arent in the first diagram everything else seems similar.
> I'm not sure, but doesnt this mean that between these wirings there are different coils used?



yes. tosins 5 way wiring with the super 5 way switch has one coil of the bridge pickup going through the preamp of the neck pickup in single coil mode. (or vice versa) and the coil split on the coil selects a different coil from the coil that is used in position 2 

the three way switch with push pull wiring only uses the preamps of each pickup and the hardwired split coil selection.

tldr: Position Both Bridge and Neck (coil split) with the 3 way will use different preamps and coils from position 2 (tosin super 5 switch wiring)


----------



## MarvinMu

diagrammatiks said:


> yes. tosins 5 way wiring with the super 5 way switch has one coil of the bridge pickup going through the preamp of the neck pickup in single coil mode. (or vice versa) and the coil split on the coil selects a different coil from the coil that is used in position 2
> 
> the three way switch with push pull wiring only uses the preamps of each pickup and the hardwired split coil selection.
> 
> tldr: Position Both Bridge and Neck (coil split) with the 3 way will use different preamps and coils from position 2 (tosin super 5 switch wiring)



So if I understand correctly I have to get a 5 way switch to use the sounds as the abasi favoured wiring.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MarvinMu said:


> So if I understand correctly I have to get a 5 way switch to use the sounds as the abasi favoured wiring.



yes


----------



## MarvinMu

diagrammatiks said:


> yes


Thank you very much for your effort sir! I have one last question. Is the situation for the Reyes Fluences the same? Or is it different there?


----------



## Albake21

So I wanted to update my experience with the Abasi set. Originally when I installed them I complained about how noisy the bridge was. I replaced the switch for a new one and it's been working great now. So as someone who has hated 4 sets of Moderns in the past, I can honestly say that I love this Abasi set. I still greatly prefer the feel of passives, but man these sound so damn good for those who like that low mid, tight, modern high gain tone. The bridge voice 1 has a huge peak in the low mids and allows to get that chunky tone while hitting the strings very lightly. THIS is what makes this set so magical for me and the soul reason why I'm keeping these pickups for one of my guitars. I have my DK24 setup in Drop A# with a setup of 11-56 and it sounds huge as if I was playing on a 27" scaled guitar. The low mids are just incredible. Then voice 2 on the bridge sounds a bit sweeter so it's great for huge chords that just really ring out clearly. The neck is nothing special to be honest so not much to talk about there, but the single coil modes... wow! They absolutely don't feel or even sound like true single coils, but they sound absolutely perfect for clean tones or for tracking single coil strat-like sounds. I guess this is where these pickups excel. They are just so incredibly clear and punchy for recording. So for those that hated the moderns like me, definitely give another set a try, you might be surprised. Now I really want to give either the Keith Merrow or Devin Townsend set a try since those both have an alnico bridge.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Glad you were able to fix the issue. They are supposed to be really quiet. The low mids on the Tosin is where it's at. None of the boxy middle of the moderns. The only Fluence pups that can dethrone my favorite EMG Hetset.


----------



## hensh!n

Albake21 said:


> So I wanted to update my experience with the Abasi set. Originally when I installed them I complained about how noisy the bridge was. I replaced the switch for a new one and it's been working great now. So as someone who has hated 4 sets of Moderns in the past, I can honestly say that I love this Abasi set. I still greatly prefer the feel of passives, but man these sound so damn good for those who like that low mid, tight, modern high gain tone. The bridge voice 1 has a huge peak in the low mids and allows to get that chunky tone while hitting the strings very lightly. THIS is what makes this set so magical for me and the soul reason why I'm keeping these pickups for one of my guitars. I have my DK24 setup in Drop A# with a setup of 11-56 and it sounds huge as if I was playing on a 27" scaled guitar. The low mids are just incredible. Then voice 2 on the bridge sounds a bit sweeter so it's great for huge chords that just really ring out clearly. The neck is nothing special to be honest so not much to talk about there, but the single coil modes... wow! They absolutely don't feel or even sound like true single coils, but they sound absolutely perfect for clean tones or for tracking single coil strat-like sounds. I guess this is where these pickups excel. They are just so incredibly clear and punchy for recording. So for those that hated the moderns like me, definitely give another set a try, you might be surprised. Now I really want to give either the Keith Merrow or Devin Townsend set a try since those both have an alnico bridge.



The Moderns are more of a one-trick pony. I've learned to develop presets to accommodate their voicings and have gotten favorable results with that in mind. However, they don't track as well as I'd like them to (when compared to my favorite passives) which is why I'm switching them out for the Abasi set. I should be able to compare the two in the next few days.

The Moderns aren't terrible per se, but personally I would've preferred more dynamics out of V1 and more mids out of V2.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Does anyone know how good the KSE set is? I know they have like no low end but the voicings sound like they'd be what I want, I just need it to be hot enough to drive and match well with my Recto.


----------



## Jeries

The SRC are like the 81 8 or the Lace X Bar - scooped with a strong jump in the curve after 500k fq and let me say this, there was an option for the shop to wire it as ESPs preferred method : turned out they had to put the High frequency pass or hf tilt - the pickups were so powerful, but so bright. The result was to roll back the highs so when SRC said he would have done them over differently, I think he meant the actually that he altered the scoop (in passive mode) with a stronger than desirable high mid and was forced to adjust.

You can see it on the fishman site, it’s in his PDF download or wiring chart. With that said, I still found them to be the most versatile and powerful 8 pup. I’d recommend doing what I did, which was go to the Fishman site, buy a push pull knob and set the tone to regular and had to pull so you can disengage or control otherwise the (very wise) pre amp chip takes over and modulates it I would imagine.

anyone else into them?


----------



## hensh!n

I spent a couple hours with the Abasi set last night, here are some points of note:

Abasi set may be the most versatile Fishman set thus far. V1 Bridge is tight, bright, and aggressive but it isn't overly compressed like the Modern set. V2 Bridge is mid heaven, very warm and clear, even sounds great clean. V3 (Single Coil) sounds like a single coil, very bright and "chimey". Unfortunately the single coil is pretty noisy if you use it with any sort of higher gain application. That is the biggest drawback. It is useable clean, especially in the Middle and Neck positions. V1/V2 on the Neck is similar to the bridge. Good for cleans, fluid for leads. You can even switch the North/South Coils to get various blends and tones on the Neck/Middle position.

My favorite part of the set though is if you have multiple toggle switches, you can route the North Coil and South Coil to them giving you "blends" in different positions (Middle and Neck mostly - Bridge is either "on" or "off"). So even if the single coil isn't useable with high gain amps, I can switch one of the coils (I'm not sure which due to my setup) that gives the Bridge V2 more of a tele-like twang. It isn't a true single coil, but for me I think this is one of the biggest selling points of the set. It's the halfway point between a single coil and humbucker, all the features you'd likely want from both without any of the drawbacks (noise, shrill highs, etc.).


----------



## hensh!n

For anyone who's curious, here's a test a did between the Fluence Modern and the Abasi Set. Track is a demo I worked on.

https://soundcloud.com/vincent_vibrato/2027-pickup-test/s-5EznXdoIh07

Settings are not identical, but they're similar. The preset is a PRS Archon (Bright) with two ML Sound Lab Engl Cabs. The second preset is also a PRS Archon with 4 Volt Cabs by ML Sound Lab. Both tracks are double tracked (panned Hard L/R). Modern (V2) set goes first, and Abasi Set (V1) goes second in every instance. First clean, then dirty, then dirty with bass/drums and so forth. 

Note: This isn't an identical comparison since different cabs were used, but still you can hear the difference in the mids and output from the Abasi set.


----------



## Albake21

hensh!n said:


> For anyone who's curious, here's a test a did between the Fluence Modern and the Abasi Set. Track is a demo I worked on.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/vincent_vibrato/2027-pickup-test/s-5EznXdoIh07
> 
> Settings are not identical, but they're similar. The preset is a PRS Archon (Bright) with two ML Sound Lab Engl Cabs. The second preset is also a PRS Archon with 4 Volt Cabs by ML Sound Lab. Both tracks are double tracked (panned Hard L/R). Modern (V2) set goes first, and Abasi Set (V1) goes second in every instance. First clean, then dirty, then dirty with bass/drums and so forth.
> 
> Note: This isn't an identical comparison since different cabs were used, but still you can hear the difference in the mids and output from the Abasi set.


Funny enough I actually prefer the moderns in this comparison and with your tone.


----------



## hensh!n

Albake21 said:


> Funny enough I actually prefer the moderns in this comparison and with your tone.



I figured some would. In hindsight I should've tested using the exact same settings and IR's, V1 vs V1 and V2 vs V2 etc. Maybe at some point I'll try to figure out which IR I used for the Modern Set to make it a closer comparison. There's also a noticeable feel difference between the two, with the Abasi set being more direct, warm, and versatile while the Modern set is just direct and cold. Ultimately it's best to find the right feel for you in a pickup, as many tonal qualities can be compensated for with the right amp/cab/eq (especially if you have an Axe Fx).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10159325293999009



P90s are coming.


----------



## Blink182Bouncer

Also a Matt Heafy signature set is coming next year according to a recent livestream. I couldn't find any info about the vocings though.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I was pretty meh about the moderns and classics when I tried them in my agile baritone, but man the moderns sound great in my Balsac E1. Even the very prominent midrange on v1 doesn't annoy me the way it did in the agile. I actually like it a lot for thrash and hair metal stuff. 


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10159325293999009
> 
> 
> 
> P90s are coming.


oh god i hope there's a hp90 version at some point. That'd be sick


----------



## diagrammatiks

multi-voice p90s. yes please.

also a tele set that isn't part of the sig? because I don't need to be paying 100 dollars for a control plate i can't use.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Hi everybody I'm new to this forum, but I'll join in on this conversation. I'm using a modern set in a EC1000 and I pretty much like it. But I have two more guitars which are awaiting a set of fishmans. Still on the fence about which one I should get. As of now probably the Abasi set, but I was wondering in a seven string with a basswood body with a low mid spike, isn't there a possibility of everything getting a little flubby down under? Just wondering.


----------



## juka

Blink182Bouncer said:


> Also a Matt Heafy signature set is coming next year according to a recent livestream. I couldn't find any info about the vocings though.


From what I understood from watching the livestream it should just be cosmetics: ordinary set of Moderns with a golden stripe.

Really don't understand what keeps them from finally adding voice 3 to the Moderns. If you think about how many "Singlecoil" voices based on the modern design they already have in their drawer (Townsend, Abasi, Adler) they could actually offer a 4th voice (or SC V1+2) when they finally redesign the Moderns.


----------



## diagrammatiks

juka said:


> From what I understood from watching the livestream it should just be cosmetics: ordinary set of Moderns with a golden stripe.
> 
> Really don't understand what keeps them from finally adding voice 3 to the Moderns. If you think about how many "Singlecoil" voices based on the modern design they already have in their drawer (Townsend, Abasi, Adler) they could actually offer a 4th voice (or SC V1+2) when they finally redesign the Moderns.



the Abasi neck isn't a modern though. 

but ya, there's no reason why they can't add another preamp. they did it for the classics. all new classic revisions have the single coil pre.


----------



## Albake21

juka said:


> From what I understood from watching the livestream it should just be cosmetics: ordinary set of Moderns with a golden stripe.
> 
> Really don't understand what keeps them from finally adding voice 3 to the Moderns. If you think about how many "Singlecoil" voices based on the modern design they already have in their drawer (Townsend, Abasi, Adler) they could actually offer a 4th voice (or SC V1+2) when they finally redesign the Moderns.


The 6 string version of the moderns have the single coil option. Sadly the 7 and 8 strings do not, which I never understood their logic with that one.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> The 6 string version of the moderns have the single coil option. Sadly the 7 and 8 strings do not, which I never understood their logic with that one.



they only have a tap tho. not the separate preamp.


----------



## Albake21

diagrammatiks said:


> they only have a tap tho. not the separate preamp.


Ahh didn't realize there was difference. That's actually good to know for future reference.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

1st real demo & comparison between Reyes & Abasi models.


----------



## Hoss632

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> 1st real demo & comparison between Reyes & Abasi models.



Decent video. I got with Fishman about the Reyes set as I am considering them for my 6 string. They said the Reyes set is based off of the Fishman Classics and voicings adjusted to Javier's preferences.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I have them in my Aristedes 007 and I do not like them distorted tbh. For cleans, specially the jazz box voice 2 on neck, they are amazing imho. When distorted, I feel they are dull/lifeless, and I think you could hear this in the video. To my ears, they feel like you put a blanket on the Abasi set. Also, the single coil voice on the Reyes is just one of the hum voicings but with 1/2 gain or so vs a completely convincing tele single voice on the Abasi. The last one is no biggy, but it translates in my head to less versatility when compared w/ the Abasi set. My 2 cents.


----------



## Hoss632

For me I find the more I listen to fishman stuff I only really like the classics, merrow and adler. All the others are eh for me.


----------



## juka

Hoss632 said:


> For me I find the more I listen to fishman stuff I only really like the classics, merrow and adler. All the others are eh for me.



+1 on Classics and Merrows
although I still didn't have a chance to check out the Abasis


----------



## Hoss632

juka said:


> +1 on Classics and Merrows
> although I still didn't have a chance to check out the Abasis


The Javier Reyes set also seems promising. But the Classics and the Merrow set would be the direction I would go when the time comes. Learning more towards the Keith Merrow set as they seem to sound great regardless of standard tuning are really low tunings. And I can't say that for any other fishman set.


----------



## desch

Hey guys, i am new to this forum and forums in general. I ended up here because I have some questions regarding the installation of the Fishman Fluence Abasi with only 1 Volume Knob but I am unable to create a thread yet, can somebody help me out ps ?


----------



## diagrammatiks

desch said:


> Hey guys, i am new to this forum and forums in general. I ended up here because I have some questions regarding the installation of the Fishman Fluence Abasi with only 1 Volume Knob but I am unable to create a thread yet, can somebody help me out ps ?



what’s your question? If you want all three voices and only have one knob you have to use the super five way switch wiring method.


----------



## desch

diagrammatiks said:


> what’s your question? If you want all three voices and only have one knob you have to use the super five way switch wiring method.


Hey, actually just the coil split would be enough


----------



## diagrammatiks

desch said:


> Hey, actually just the coil split would be enough



then ya you can decide which voice you want and hardwire it and then leave one push-pull for the v3 single coil sound.


----------



## desch

diagrammatiks said:


> then ya you can decide which voice you want and hardwire it and then leave one push-pull for the v3 single coil sound.


So basically leave out the tone knob from the circuit and just connect the coil split to the volume knob. Sadly I cannot post a link of the installation guide but I am refering to the drawing on page 7 of the installation guide for the fishman fluence tosin abasi pickups.


----------



## diagrammatiks

desch said:


> So basically leave out the tone knob from the circuit and just connect the coil split to the volume knob. Sadly I cannot post a link of the installation guide but I am refering to the drawing on page 7 of the installation guide for the fishman fluence tosin abasi pickups.



well if you know which voice you want of the fish mans then yeah. you take the tone pot push pull wiring and wire it on your volume. 

you won't be able to change between v1/2 you can only switch to v3. 

keeping the volume pot wiring will only let you switch between v1/2


----------



## desch

diagrammatiks said:


> well if you know which voice you want of the fish mans then yeah. you take the tone pot push pull wiring and wire it on your volume.
> 
> you won't be able to change between v1/2 you can only switch to v3.
> 
> keeping the volume pot wiring will only let you switch between v1/2



Nice ! But what happens with the condensator on the tone knob ? Is it important for the coil split ? 

And on page 7 of the installation guide, you can see thin grey/black lines which are connected to the pots casing. What are those cables ? I could not finde such small cables on pictures of the whole package content of the pickups.


----------



## FitRocker33

I have KnightBrolaires old set of classics in a drop C tuned Ibanez Rg5121 and they replaced the factory moderns that came with it. The classics are clearer sounding, not as compressed and chug better to me than the moderns did.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Once I snag a good LP for B standard I think I'm gonna use some Fishmans for that. I like the EMG gadgets too much but when I don't have the space for weird stuff I think doing full push pulls for a fluence set will be fun


----------



## Hoss632

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Once I snag a good LP for B standard I think I'm gonna use some Fishmans for that. I like the EMG gadgets too much but when I don't have the space for weird stuff I think doing full push pulls for a fluence set will be fun


Could always get an ESP EC1000 fluence. That way it already has the moderns in it. Little less work to do.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Blink182Bouncer said:


> Also a Matt Heafy signature set is coming next year according to a recent livestream. I couldn't find any info about the vocings though.



I’m pretty ‘meh’ about that. Their tone has, IMO, been getting worse. And the EMG-81 was apparently good enough for the last 9(?) studio albums and decade of touring. It’s another artist where I can’t see that a signature set is really adding anything (other than marketing for Fishman).


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Hoss632 said:


> Could always get an ESP EC1000 fluence. That way it already has the moderns in it. Little less work to do.



I could but I don't really like the passive voice 2 on the moderns and I want to try a different wiring scheme. Unless those come stock with coil taps wired in? I haven't researched them.


----------



## lewis

Flappydoodle said:


> I’m pretty ‘meh’ about that. Their tone has, IMO, been getting worse. And the EMG-81 was apparently good enough for the last 9(?) studio albums and decade of touring. It’s another artist where I can’t see that a signature set is really adding anything (other than marketing for Fishman).


not to mention his (Matt) flat out marketing lies of claiming he could always notice a latency when playing live with emgs - until he tried the fantastical new Fishmans and now there is no delay. Apparently now he plays tighter and more in time with their drummer than he ever could before with EMGs

oh boy

hahaha

EDIT: to add, i dont care what anyone says, but their tones on the Ascendancy, Crusade and Shogun are the best that band has ever sounded - no Fishmans in sight


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Their sound started going downhill after switching to Kempers around the time of Vengeance Falls (iirc that was actually mix of a real 5150 and a Kemper 5150 profile, but you can tell that's when the sound started to suck  )


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Their sound started going downhill after switching to Kempers around the time of Vengeance Falls (iirc that was actually mix of a real 5150 and a Kemper 5150 profile, but you can tell that's when the sound started to suck  )


whats weird is the brand new album was recorded with peavey XXX's like they used on Ascendancy - and yet the tones still dont sound as good as the old albums imo.


----------



## Hoss632

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I could but I don't really like the passive voice 2 on the moderns and I want to try a different wiring scheme. Unless those come stock with coil taps wired in? I haven't researched them.


100% understand that. I don't think the moderns have a coiltap/single coil 3rd voicing.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hoss632 said:


> 100% understand that. I don't think the moderns have a coiltap/single coil 3rd voicing.


They can be coil split. coil tap is a totally different thing and almost no company offers that.


----------



## diagrammatiks

KnightBrolaire said:


> They can be coil split. coil tap is a totally different thing and almost no company offers that.



actually it is a tap since the coils on the fluence are one continuous printed coil. but it matters not at all really.


----------



## goherpsNderp

Yeah the moderns have the little spots on the back of them to tap, and the Support page for them have a coil tapping PDF guide.

I just got the Schecter PT SLS Elite with moderns and I'm thinking about having a tech rewire it so that I can use the tap. The only problem though is that I would need to make one knob's push/pull switch BOTH pickups' voices so that the other knob could just be for toggling the tap. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask the tech.

Ideally I'd like it so that:

Both knobs in: Voice 1/Voice 1 no tapping
Volume knob out tone knob in: Voice 2/Voice 2 no tapping
Volume knob in tone knob out: Voice 1/Voice 1 coil tap
Volume knob out tone knob out: Voice 2/Voice 2 coil tap


----------



## diagrammatiks

goherpsNderp said:


> Yeah the moderns have the little spots on the back of them to tap, and the Support page for them have a coil tapping PDF guide.
> 
> I just got the Schecter PT SLS Elite with moderns and I'm thinking about having a tech rewire it so that I can use the tap. The only problem though is that I would need to make one knob's push/pull switch BOTH pickups' voices so that the other knob could just be for toggling the tap. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask the tech.
> 
> Ideally I'd like it so that:
> 
> Both knobs in: Voice 1/Voice 1 no tapping
> Volume knob out tone knob in: Voice 2/Voice 2 no tapping
> Volume knob in tone knob out: Voice 1/Voice 1 coil tap
> Volume knob out tone knob out: Voice 2/Voice 2 coil tap



you can do this. 

voice switching can be wired tighter and to one switch. tapping can be wired to the other switch.


----------



## goherpsNderp

diagrammatiks said:


> you can do this.
> 
> voice switching can be wired tighter and to one switch. tapping can be wired to the other switch.



Awesome! Thanks for the response. I'll talk to him about it in spring when I'm less busy. Hopefully he's worked with them before but if not I'll just send him the PDF's and wish him luck lol.


----------



## slavboi_delight

lewis said:


> whats weird is the brand new album was recorded with peavey XXX's like they used on Ascendancy - and yet the tones still dont sound as good as the old albums imo.


Yeah i saw that video too..
Probably the most ludicrous claim about pickups i've ever heard
I get that you try to be involved with a brand as much as you can and try do advocate them in a positive way but those kind of claims really screw up the industry which is already overfed.
I use the moderns and devins, they are great and i wanted them because with only a pull of a pot I'm able to change the vibe of my playing.
But they did no reinvent the wheel here

EDIT: I replied to the wrong comment but i think the Heafy claim comment was feom you as well


----------



## lewis

slavboi_delight said:


> Yeah i saw that video too..
> Probably the most ludicrous claim about pickups i've ever heard
> I get that you try to be involved with a brand as much as you can and try do advocate them in a positive way but those kind of claims really screw up the industry which is already overfed.
> I use the moderns and devins, they are great and i wanted them because with only a pull of a pot I'm able to change the vibe of my playing.
> But they did no reinvent the wheel here
> 
> EDIT: I replied to the wrong comment but i think the Heafy claim comment was feom you as well


Yeah it was me  haha

well said. Bang on!

And whats abit weird, is when I have directly A/Bd my EMG and then fishman guitars, the EMG notes feel like they pop quicker than the Fishmans because of the compression. Notes with EMGs somehow feel livelier or more energetic?
Im not saying they physically are quicker because I believe Heafy's talk either way is dumb and not true.
But for me, EMGs certainly give the illusion of tracking quicker compared to Fishmans so Matts talk seemed even more stupid to me.


----------



## slavboi_delight

lewis said:


> Yeah it was me  haha
> 
> well said. Bang on!
> 
> And whats abit weird, is when I have directly A/Bd my EMG and then fishman guitars, the EMG notes feel like they pop quicker than the Fishmans because of the compression. Notes with EMGs somehow feel livelier or more energetic?
> Im not saying they physically are quicker because I believe Heafy's talk either way is dumb and not true.
> But for me, EMGs certainly give the illusion of tracking quicker compared to Fishmans so Matts talk seemed even more stupid to me.



That's a hard take. In my opinion the fishmans just give me the variety of a few more tonal options and that's it really. I don't think they are better than EMG nor vice versa. But on the other hand, I've caught myself tweaking my tone a little bit more since the moderns especially have a fairly aggressive high mid range bite. That bugs me a little. EMG has the big advantage of having an almost flat EQ curve. Atleast in my expirience. They are pretty easy to work with in live AND studio situations. With that said, it depends on personal preference honestly. 
But going all Matt Heafy about it really bugs me.


----------



## Bender.folder

. Big trivium fan but the tone is indeed dry and harsh plus he boosts with those tc electronic preamp pedals that seem to accentuate this dry hi-fi sound.
As for fishmans i have yet to be impressed.
Moderns 7 string did me nothing. Especially the neck that was dull. But some 6 strings set like abasis and devins demos picked interest.
Also next time i take the battery pack cause the 7 string ones emptied 9v batteries like crazy


----------



## Romain Jeuniaux

Hey everyone! Considering installing some Fishmans into my upcoming Aristides 7 string order.

I'm playing mostly progressive metal, not unlike Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Gojira and Ihsahn. I'm looking for something very dynamic and responsive, that can obviously handle high gain shit, but with great clean and single-coil sounds. I'm thinking about the Abasis, but am afraid they would sound too "djenty". The Keith Merrows seem interesting as well, but I'm not sure about their clean and lower gain sounds, plus I've heard they're super bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know).

Could anyone give me their two cents on this?  Thank you so much!!


----------



## Albake21

Romain Jeuniaux said:


> Hey everyone! Considering installing some Fishmans into my upcoming Aristides 7 string order.
> 
> I'm playing mostly progressive metal, not unlike Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Gojira and Ihsahn. I'm looking for something very dynamic and responsive, that can obviously handle high gain shit, but with great clean and single-coil sounds. I'm thinking about the Abasis, but am afraid they would sound too "djenty". The Keith Merrows seem interesting as well, but I'm not sure about their clean and lower gain sounds, plus I've heard they're super bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know).
> 
> Could anyone give me their two cents on this?  Thank you so much!!


Just throwing it out there, I'd maybe take a look at the Devin Townsend set. Has great cleans, on the warmer side, and I believe it's an alnico magnet too. The Abasi set is definitely low mid focused, in other words.... djenty.


----------



## Hoss632

Romain Jeuniaux said:


> Hey everyone! Considering installing some Fishmans into my upcoming Aristides 7 string order.
> 
> I'm playing mostly progressive metal, not unlike Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Gojira and Ihsahn. I'm looking for something very dynamic and responsive, that can obviously handle high gain shit, but with great clean and single-coil sounds. I'm thinking about the Abasis, but am afraid they would sound too "djenty". The Keith Merrows seem interesting as well, but I'm not sure about their clean and lower gain sounds, plus I've heard they're super bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know).
> 
> Could anyone give me their two cents on this?  Thank you so much!!


The Merrow set is really not that bright. The Abasi set sound brighter honestly. Both sound great under high gain. The abasi set I would say would be better for cleans as Tosin tried to design the pick ups from a clean tone first instead of high gain. You definitely cannot go wrong with either one of the sets. If you do want more low end in your tone and still good cleans the Javier Reyes set was just released as well.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

From a few pages back, check it out:


I have the 3 sets, the Abasi is the definitely brightest & loudest. KM, JR, TA all have great cleans, the differences between them are very particular imho. The KM is about low-mids (bridge V1), while bridge V2 is more EVH brown sound, the KM neck is same as the Classics, really nice (V1 PAF, V2 more like a modern neck pickup sound, like SD 59/Jazz iirc). 

TA set is very versatile, Tosin has a few videos (demo + clinics) showing them off & comparing against other pickups he used. It has an awesome uncanny 3rd single coil voicing.

JR is my most recent acquisition, ymmv on this one, it has great cleans, but I'm finding a bit challenging to make the sounds I want. It has more bass/low mids, healthy supply , not a whole lot versatile overall, specially when it comes to the single coil voicing. V2 on the neck is awesome though, it's a warm, woody, Jazz box voicing.


----------



## hztirf

Hi, I'm swapping my pickups on my Ibanez RGA8 (8 string) with the Abasi set. As this will be my first tryout of a Fluence set and I'd like to get an initial value for later fine-tuning: What's the typical distance from pickup to strings? Is it similar to passive pickups?


----------



## Flappydoodle

Romain Jeuniaux said:


> Hey everyone! Considering installing some Fishmans into my upcoming Aristides 7 string order.
> 
> I'm playing mostly progressive metal, not unlike Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Gojira and Ihsahn. I'm looking for something very dynamic and responsive, that can obviously handle high gain shit, but with great clean and single-coil sounds. I'm thinking about the Abasis, but am afraid they would sound too "djenty". The Keith Merrows seem interesting as well, but I'm not sure about their clean and lower gain sounds, plus I've heard they're super bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know).
> 
> Could anyone give me their two cents on this?  Thank you so much!!



I definitely would NOT go for Fishmans in this case.

You cited three bands which all use passive pickups. Gojira especially - his signature pickup is a low output, vintage PAF-style alnico. Mikael uses PRS pickups, to the best of my knowledge. And Dusty uses those Mojotone passive pickups - again, with alnico magnets.

I have the modern set in my Aristides, and it sounds and feel like an active pickup guitar, even on the "passive" voicing. I've owned 4 different Fishman sets at this point, and they all share some sort of character, despite their differences. I honestly can't see the sense in you buying high output active pickups if you want passive sounds.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Romain Jeuniaux said:


> Hey everyone! Considering installing some Fishmans into my upcoming Aristides 7 string order.
> 
> I'm playing mostly progressive metal, not unlike Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Gojira and Ihsahn. I'm looking for something very dynamic and responsive, that can obviously handle high gain shit, but with great clean and single-coil sounds. I'm thinking about the Abasis, but am afraid they would sound too "djenty". The Keith Merrows seem interesting as well, but I'm not sure about their clean and lower gain sounds, plus I've heard they're super bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd like to know).
> 
> Could anyone give me their two cents on this?  Thank you so much!!



I definitely would NOT go for Fishmans in this case.

You cited three bands which all use passive pickups. Gojira especially - his signature pickup is a low output, vintage PAF-style alnico. Mikael uses PRS pickups, to the best of my knowledge. And Dusty uses those Mojotone passive pickups - again, with alnico magnets.

I have the modern set in my Aristides, and it sounds and feel like an active pickup guitar, even on the "passive" voicing. I've owned 4 different Fishman sets at this point, and they all share some sort of character, despite their differences. I honestly can't see the sense in you buying high output active pickups if you want passive sounds.


----------



## Strobe

Flappydoodle said:


> I definitely would NOT go for Fishmans in this case.
> 
> You cited three bands which all use passive pickups. Gojira especially - his signature pickup is a low output, vintage PAF-style alnico. Mikael uses PRS pickups, to the best of my knowledge. And Dusty uses those Mojotone passive pickups - again, with alnico magnets.
> 
> I have the modern set in my Aristides, and it sounds and feel like an active pickup guitar, even on the "passive" voicing. I've owned 4 different Fishman sets at this point, and they all share some sort of character, despite their differences. I honestly can't see the sense in you buying high output active pickups if you want passive sounds.



I would say the classics, Keith Merrow, and Will Adler sets do not have the active feel in their voicings (except V2 Adler). Bright and not overly mid forward is what he is going to want if he wants to avoid being too "djenty"


----------



## Flappydoodle

Strobe said:


> I would say the classics, Keith Merrow, and Will Adler sets do not have the active feel in their voicings (except V2 Adler). Bright and not overly mid forward is what he is going to want if he wants to avoid being too "djenty"



I haven't played the KM or WA sets. But the classics? They sound and feel nothing like vintage PAF-style pickups.


----------



## Strobe

Flappydoodle said:


> I haven't played the KM or WA sets. But the classics? They sound and feel nothing like vintage PAF-style pickups.



Agree to disagree on this one. They definitely do not feel active to me. They do feel PAF-ish in V1 to me. I also own PAF style pickups. YMMV


----------



## juka

Who else saw McRocklin unveiling his upcoming Fluence Signature set on his recent live twitch?
"Classic humbuckers with the most modern split sounds"
Sounded very promising. Looking very much forward to more info being released.

The single coils sounded a lot brighter and chimier than everything I heard from him using the Abasis.
The PUPs will be based on the Open Core Classics for sure, but he didn't say for which humbucker voicing he went for V1 and 2. But so far his favorite humbucker voicings seem to have been V2 on Abasis and Classics each.
As I still didn't have a change to test the Abasis I don't know how much those two voicings differ from each other.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Stupid question: 

In a vague sense I would be able to switch between the Fishman pickups like the EMG solderless style right? 
The pins are somewhat the same right? 
Or am I absolutely wrong here?


----------



## lewis

slavboi_delight said:


> Stupid question:
> 
> In a vague sense I would be able to switch between the Fishman pickups like the EMG solderless style right?
> The pins are somewhat the same right?
> Or am I absolutely wrong here?


Completely correct.
Its how ive used my Fishmans.
And EMG sell solderless push/pull pots separately too so you can even get the voice changing going like you would normally.


----------



## elkoki

slavboi_delight said:


> Stupid question:
> 
> In a vague sense I would be able to switch between the Fishman pickups like the EMG solderless style right?
> The pins are somewhat the same right?
> Or am I absolutely wrong here?



Most EMG's only have 1 quick connect cable, Fishmans have 2 cables per pickup . So if you're using Fishman Fluence with EMG quick connect pots you may have to do some figuring out as to which wires go where , it sounds doable, just can't say for sure since i've never done that


----------



## slavboi_delight

lewis said:


> Completely correct.
> Its how ive used my Fishmans.
> And EMG sell solderless push/pull pots separately too so you can even get the voice changing going like you would normally.





elkoki said:


> Most EMG's only have 1 quick connect cable, Fishmans have 2 cables per pickup . So if you're using Fishman Fluence with EMG quick connect pots you may have to do some figuring out as to which wires go where , it sounds doable, just can't say for sure since i've never done that



Probably need to elaborate different. 
I meant in the actual Fishman realm. 
Like Fishman Townsend swap with a Classic or whatever without actually changing the whole electronics. 

I'm really bad with soldering. 

Thanks for anwsering though!


----------



## elkoki

slavboi_delight said:


> Probably need to elaborate different.
> I meant in the actual Fishman realm.
> Like Fishman Townsend swap with a Classic or whatever without actually changing the whole electronics.
> 
> I'm really bad with soldering.
> 
> Thanks for anwsering though!



Oh yeah more than likely Fluences are interchangeable with each other. When I swapped my Classics for Will Adlers I just swapped the pickups. The only thing that was "off" was that the bridge from the Alder set has a 2 pin connector instead of the normal 4 pin (it's 4 right?) I used the same connector and it worked even though it first looked like it wouldn't


----------



## slavboi_delight

elkoki said:


> Oh yeah more than likely Fluences are interchangeable with each other. When I swapped my Classics for Will Adlers I just swapped the pickups. The only thing that was "off" was that the bridge from the Alder set has a 2 pin connector instead of the normal 4 pin (it's 4 right?) I used the same connector and it worked even though it first looked like it wouldn't



Ah that's great news! 
I wasn't quite sure about it, but from a logical standpoint they should be. 

I own a modern set and a Townsend set and I'm still not quite sure if I like them or not. 
So I'm really tempted to check out the Merrow and/or Classic set. 

The Moderns would be more problematic right? Because they have the solder patches for the actual coil split, while the Merrows or other sets have and actual third voice for the single coil mode.


----------



## elkoki

slavboi_delight said:


> Ah that's great news!
> I wasn't quite sure about it, but from a logical standpoint they should be.
> 
> I own a modern set and a Townsend set and I'm still not quite sure if I like them or not.
> So I'm really tempted to check out the Merrow and/or Classic set.
> 
> The Moderns would be more problematic right? Because they have the solder patches for the actual coil split, while the Merrows or other sets have and actual third voice for the single coil mode.




Yeah. I think the Classics needs 2 push pull pots, one for the second voice and another for the third coil split voice.


----------



## JDThaddeus

I installed Devin Thomsons and I love them. With the coil tap ON in passive mode I get a very soft vintage sound, then the passive mode is perfect sounding clean with effects, then the active mode is beasty. I get a HUGE range of tones from vintage blues to prog metal. Love it love it love it! 

But there's a caveat: when I first installed them I was very unhappy with the tone knob and lack of different voices. My brother who is an EE soldered a second capacitor on the tone knob to double the capacitance and WHAT A HUGE DIFFERENCE! My tone knob really works now and I get a HUGE variety of voices.


----------



## jco5055

I'm actually surprised Fishman hasn't come out with a "Modern V2" or anything, since it seems almost considered a truth at this point that the Moderns are lacking compared to the Classics and the other sets of theirs.


----------



## slavboi_delight

jco5055 said:


> I'm actually surprised Fishman hasn't come out with a "Modern V2" or anything, since it seems almost considered a truth at this point that the Moderns are lacking compared to the Classics and the other sets of theirs.



What are they "lacking" exactly?


----------



## jco5055

slavboi_delight said:


> What are they "lacking" exactly?



well a lot of people (by a lot I just mean go to any forum/facebook group/reviews etc) that they are a little too high-gain/lacking diversity/cleans are sub par...I'm not saying they are known to be bad, but whenever i see anyone ask about multiple Fishmans the moderns are always regarded as "worse" than the classics, Tosins, and really every other model besides maybe the Carpenters


----------



## slavboi_delight

jco5055 said:


> well a lot of people (by a lot I just mean go to any forum/facebook group/reviews etc) that they are a little too high-gain/lacking diversity/cleans are sub par...I'm not saying they are known to be bad, but whenever i see anyone ask about multiple Fishmans the moderns are always regarded as "worse" than the classics, Tosins, and really every other model besides maybe the Carpenters



Yeah that makes sense. I'm pretty comfortable with them now and can achieve alot of tones even though the townsends are wayyyyy more versatile. It's all fair game I guess, buddy of mine pretty much jazzes with an EMG 81 and 81 only.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

jco5055 said:


> I'm actually surprised Fishman hasn't come out with a "Modern V2" or anything, since it seems almost considered a truth at this point that the Moderns are lacking compared to the Classics and the other sets of theirs.



The current Moderns are actually revision 3.5 already. The very first ones sound warmer.


----------



## diagrammatiks

slavboi_delight said:


> What are they "lacking" exactly?



a single coil v3


----------



## jco5055

MASS DEFECT said:


> The current Moderns are actually revision 3.5 already. The very first ones sound warmer.




when did 3.5 come out?


----------



## TheShyGuitarist

I've always had a simple Epiphone les paul with probuckers, but I can get most of the tones I need from em (classic rock, thrash, alternative, progressive, djent, etc.). I'm thinking of buying a headless guitar with the modern fluence pickups. Anyone could recommend if it'd be the right pickup for me? I'm planning to use it mostly for djent, and I think the improved clarity would be awesome.
Also, since some are criticizing the modern fluence, any other set I should check out for a 6 string? The Abasi feels a bit too single-coily for my taste IMO.
And, if I don't get the battery pack installed, is it easy enough to swap 9V batteries on/off and get good performance?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

jco5055 said:


> when did 3.5 come out?



Roughly 3 years ago.


----------



## slavboi_delight

diagrammatiks said:


> a single coil v3



I second that.


----------



## Jeries

Actually, the modern circuit board has a "classic/v1" gain and then you can also add a 6db boost on the modern....on top of that you can split coil even if its not pre wired for it - so the versatility on tones is probably why they haven't.....theres just so much in each set..2 cents


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jeries said:


> Actually, the modern circuit board has a "classic/v1" gain and then you can also add a 6db boost on the modern....on top of that you can split coil even if its not pre wired for it - so the versatility on tones is probably why they haven't.....theres just so much in each set..2 cents



there's still no third preamp. the classics were updated to all have a third preamp in the newest revision.


----------



## Jeries

that is true, I agree, the pre amp should be added for split coil at the very least


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Anything for NAMM this year? U guys heard anything? There was supposed to be a Matt Heafy sig, and another one I can't recall, but it's Monday, NAMM officially starts today, no?


----------



## Hoss632

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Anything for NAMM this year? U guys heard anything? There was supposed to be a Matt Heafy sig, and another one I can't recall, but it's Monday, NAMM officially starts today, no?


the MKH pick ups will be in matt's new epiphone sig that he just unveiled on twitch this past week. Also there's going to be a Ryan "Fluff" Bruce bridge pick up coming at some point as well


----------



## kisielk

So I found out today from Fishman support that the Javier Reyes pickups are only available in their open core configuration and as such can't be a drop-in replacement for the moderns on my Zeus  disappointing to say the least


----------



## slavboi_delight

Hoss632 said:


> the MKH pick ups will be in matt's new epiphone sig that he just unveiled on twitch this past week. Also there's going to be a Ryan "Fluff" Bruce bridge pick up coming at some point as well



I will never understand why insignificant youtubers get signature gear.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Hoss632 said:


> the MKH pick ups will be in matt's new epiphone sig that he just unveiled on twitch this past week. Also there's going to be a Ryan "Fluff" Bruce bridge pick up coming at some point as well



Thanks, I'll check it out, there was also talk about P90 pickups, any idea when any of these will be announced? During NAMM, or after?


----------



## Hoss632

kisielk said:


> So I found out today from Fishman support that the Javier Reyes pickups are only available in their open core configuration and as such can't be a drop-in replacement for the moderns on my Zeus  disappointing to say the least


What's the difference between them that they can't be dropped straight in?


----------



## Hoss632

slavboi_delight said:


> I will never understand why insignificant youtubers get signature gear.


Fluff is more than just youtube though. He's been in a couple of successful bands that have toured world wide including Dragged Under whom had a very successful 2020 despite the pandemic. So that is 100's of thousands of people that he has an audience with and that's more exposure. Makes perfect sense just like Jared Dines getting a signature guitar with Music Man.


----------



## Hoss632

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Thanks, I'll check it out, there was also talk about P90 pickups, any idea when any of these will be announced? During NAMM, or after?


This is the first I've heard about them doing p90's. That would be pretty badass though


----------



## Flappydoodle

Hoss632 said:


> the MKH pick ups will be in matt's new epiphone sig that he just unveiled on twitch this past week. Also there's going to be a Ryan "Fluff" Bruce bridge pick up coming at some point as well



Both guys who do not have good tone, hmm...

New Trivium albums have been sounding worse. All their best stuff (Shogun) was just an EMG81. And Matt's tone when he does streams and demos is horrible. I'm also a bit put off by his weird selling of Fishman in the past, when he was saying they had less latency than EMGs and helped him play in time with his drummer better.. wtf

And Fluff, well it's a bit of a meme that he always has shitty tones in his demos



slavboi_delight said:


> I will never understand why insignificant youtubers get signature gear.



Because it's a business relationship and not an award based on recognising talent. He has a lot of subscribers, and many are impressionable enough to buy his signature gear. He does also put out albums and tour with a band, so he's "legit" in that aspect I guess.


----------



## kisielk

Hoss632 said:


> What's the difference between them that they can't be dropped straight in?


The physical dimensions are different, the moderns are soapbar style.. the Javier Reyes are not..


----------



## Hoss632

Flappydoodle said:


> Both guys who do not have good tone, hmm...
> 
> New Trivium albums have been sounding worse. All their best stuff (Shogun) was just an EMG81. And Matt's tone when he does streams and demos is horrible. I'm also a bit put off by his weird selling of Fishman in the past, when he was saying they had less latency than EMGs and helped him play in time with his drummer better.. wtf
> 
> And Fluff, well it's a bit of a meme that he always has shitty tones in his demos
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a business relationship and not an award based on recognising talent. He has a lot of subscribers, and many are impressionable enough to buy his signature gear. He does also put out albums and tour with a band, so he's "legit" in that aspect I guess.


You are just giving your opinion though. I think metallica's tone has sucked on every subsequent album after the black album. Load and reload weren't bad but after that, i can't even listen to them. As far as heafy, he sounds fine to me regardless of which pick up he's using. With Fluff his tone the past couple of years since starting Dragged Under I've honestly enjoyed quite a bit. It all comes down to what our ears like is all.


----------



## Hoss632

kisielk said:


> The physical dimensions are different, the moderns are soapbar style.. the Javier Reyes are not..


Ah I didn't know that about them. Definitely will make a note of it for odwn the road.


----------



## boltzthrower

So I finally got a hold of a ceramic Modern 7 and here's my impression (coming from a long time 81-7 addicted death metal guy). Compared to 81-7:

Voice 1 - Looser. Has some of that passive-esque crunch goin' on (compared to an 81-7, anyway). A bit warmer. Palm muted chugs are not as quick/tight/resonant (not as brutal). Highs sound rolled off somewhere around 6k-8k. Better cleans. Overall relatively similar EQ besides the aforementioned differences.

Voice 2 - No comment on high gain, this voicing just isn't for me. Cleans better than voice 1, impressive for an active pickup (not as good as SD Ritributions, though).

Overall a good pickup, they won't be replacing my 81-7's but if randomly had to play a gig or somethin' with these I would mind at all, they sound good. The way they sound more passive-like than my 81-7's is pretty cool but I would never give up the tightness I get from the 81-7's for these. If only I could flip a switch and get this good of a clean on my EMG's.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Hoss632 said:


> You are just giving your opinion though. I think metallica's tone has sucked on every subsequent album after the black album. Load and reload weren't bad but after that, i can't even listen to them. As far as heafy, he sounds fine to me regardless of which pick up he's using. With Fluff his tone the past couple of years since starting Dragged Under I've honestly enjoyed quite a bit. It all comes down to what our ears like is all.



I have to add that I never got into the whole youtube guitar scene. Your Metallica statement i agree with. MKH sounds like he always sounds and i kind of dig that. But as it comes to Ryan Bruce, which i have seen some videos from (especially when i was looking for pickups back in the day), i just can't get myself to like him. You're right it comes down to ears, but his tone, his way of playing and overly pretentious character trait really struck a nerve with me. But then again that's my opinion so to each their own.


----------



## Hoss632

slavboi_delight said:


> I have to add that I never got into the whole youtube guitar scene. Your Metallica statement i agree with. MKH sounds like he always sounds and i kind of dig that. But as it comes to Ryan Bruce, which i have seen some videos from (especially when i was looking for pickups back in the day), i just can't get myself to like him. You're right it comes down to ears, but his tone, his way of playing and overly pretentious character trait really struck a nerve with me. But then again that's my opinion so to each their own.


Great points all around my friend.


----------



## Nickerz

Have a set of moderns that are great for Rhythm work but suck for leads. Which one of their sets has that nice lower mid bump that EMGs have. I also find that the moderns just don't accentuate pinch harmonics nearly as nice.


----------



## NoodleFace

might have been asked before, apologies if so. Does anyone know if the 7 string moderns are the same size as EMG81-7X pickups?


----------



## kisielk

NoodleFace said:


> might have been asked before, apologies if so. Does anyone know if the 7 string moderns are the same size as EMG81-7X pickups?


I found this on their website, which is very helpful:

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...ce_electric_guitar_pickup_dimensions_2020.pdf

You just need to compare to the equivalent from EMG, or measure your pickups yourself.


----------



## Jeries

boltzthrower said:


> So I finally got a hold of a ceramic Modern 7 and here's my impression (coming from a long time 81-7 addicted death metal guy). Compared to 81-7:
> 
> Voice 1 - Looser. Has some of that passive-esque crunch goin' on (compared to an 81-7, anyway). A bit warmer. Palm muted chugs are not as quick/tight/resonant (not as brutal). Highs sound rolled off somewhere around 6k-8k. Better cleans. Overall relatively similar EQ besides the aforementioned differences.
> 
> Voice 2 - No comment on high gain, this voicing just isn't for me. Cleans better than voice 1, impressive for an active pickup (not as good as SD Ritributions, though).
> 
> Overall a good pickup, they won't be replacing my 81-7's but if randomly had to play a gig or somethin' with these I would mind at all, they sound good. The way they sound more passive-like than my 81-7's is pretty cool but I would never give up the tightness I get from the 81-7's for these. If only I could flip a switch and get this good of a clean on my EMG's.


That is a good review, but I can't say I heard the same things. Albeit, I ordered the modified version of the Moderns (the Stephen carpenters) but not only do they surpass my 81-x (x being 6.7 and 8 string EMG 81s), but they do so quite markedly.

In my honest opinion, after reading this fishman thread for over a year, and after one members review about the carpenters, I was sure, they would be the little edge I was looking for over the moderns, which were great when the 6db engaged, but the carpenters really packed a punch, sort of like scoop with a high mid spike, which I have found a few reviewers and literature from fishman saying so - the closest thing to an 81 is the carpenter set.... so maybe give those a try next time - they are literally just a modified version so its a direct fit/swap

hope that helps if you wanted some 2 cents lol


----------



## boltzthrower

High mid spike you say? GAS initiated. I guess I'll hold on to the Moderns so I can A/B 'em with the Carpenters.


----------



## lewis

Flappydoodle said:


> Both guys who do not have good tone, hmm...
> 
> *New Trivium albums have been sounding worse. All their best stuff (Shogun) was just an EMG81. And Matt's tone when he does streams and demos is horrible. I'm also a bit put off by his weird selling of Fishman in the past, when he was saying they had less latency than EMGs and helped him play in time with his drummer better.. wtf*
> 
> And Fluff, well it's a bit of a meme that he always has shitty tones in his demos
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a business relationship and not an award based on recognising talent. He has a lot of subscribers, and many are impressionable enough to buy his signature gear. He does also put out albums and tour with a band, so he's "legit" in that aspect I guess.



THIS x100


----------



## lewis

boltzthrower said:


> So I finally got a hold of a ceramic Modern 7 and here's my impression (coming from a long time 81-7 addicted death metal guy). Compared to 81-7:
> 
> Voice 1 - Looser. Has some of that passive-esque crunch goin' on (compared to an 81-7, anyway). A bit warmer. Palm muted chugs are not as quick/tight/resonant (not as brutal). Highs sound rolled off somewhere around 6k-8k. Better cleans. Overall relatively similar EQ besides the aforementioned differences.
> 
> Voice 2 - No comment on high gain, this voicing just isn't for me. Cleans better than voice 1, impressive for an active pickup (not as good as SD Ritributions, though).
> 
> Overall a good pickup, they won't be replacing my 81-7's but if randomly had to play a gig or somethin' with these I would mind at all, they sound good. The way they sound more passive-like than my 81-7's is pretty cool but I would never give up the tightness I get from the 81-7's for these. *If only I could flip a switch and get this good of a clean on my EMG's*.



get an emg rpc knob. Gives single coil cleans out of an 81

bang on review too. Exactly my findings too.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Jeries said:


> That is a good review, but I can't say I heard the same things. Albeit, I ordered the modified version of the Moderns (the Stephen carpenters) but not only do they surpass my 81-x (x being 6.7 and 8 string EMG 81s), but they do so quite markedly.
> 
> In my honest opinion, after reading this fishman thread for over a year, and after one members review about the carpenters, I was sure, they would be the little edge I was looking for over the moderns, which were great when the 6db engaged, but the carpenters really packed a punch, sort of like scoop with a high mid spike, which I have found a few reviewers and literature from fishman saying so - the closest thing to an 81 is the carpenter set.... so maybe give those a try next time - they are literally just a modified version so its a direct fit/swap
> 
> hope that helps if you wanted some 2 cents lol


I agree 100%. I have both the Moderns and Carpenters in 7 string guitars, somewhat similar specs and the Carpenter's just have a bit "more" to them. I also have a 6 string Stef set and those flat out kick ass as well.


----------



## Jeries

Apex1rg7x said:


> I agree 100%. I have both the Moderns and Carpenters in 7 string guitars, somewhat similar specs and the Carpenter's just have a bit "more" to them. I also have a 6 string Stef set and those flat out kick ass as well.


You found the 6 string versions with the certificates signed by SC??? Wow, you are lucky. I think they made, what? 150 of them??? SO cool

What did you put them in?


----------



## Apex1rg7x

I've had them for awhile but I haven't seen a set for sale for a long time now. I put them in his LTD SC-20 sig model.


----------



## Jeries

Hey btw, did you or anyone you know hardwire solder the split coiling??? On the carpenters I mean specially


----------



## Marv Attaxx

I've installed the 8 string Abasi Set in my RG852 and I love it but for some reason the dimensions seem off.
Originally I was using EMG808s (and Xs afterwards) and those were a tight fit, the Abasis tho have about 1-1.5mm gaps inside the routing. It doesn't affect performance or tone, of course, but I can push a pick in there 
The weird thing is: according to the official dimensions the Fluence pickups are supposed to be slightly bigger than the EMGs (I'll just trust EMG with this one).
I know I'm being picky af but under certain lighting conditions I can see the bottom of the routing and the cables and it's annoying me more than it should but here we are


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I remember having to enlarge the pickup routings slightly to install the Abasis in my RG8. The Fluence Abasi is wider than 808 by a hair, 0.009 inches, so I'd consider that the same within production tolerances. If u have a caliper lying around, u could measure and compare with original specs.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I remember having to enlarge the pickup routings slightly to install the Abasis in my RG8. The Fluence Abasi is wider than 808 by a hair, 0.009 inches, so I'd consider that the same within production tolerances. If u have a caliper lying around, u could measure and compare with original specs.


That's what made me wonder, too haha.
Sadly I don't have a caliper. I measured the pickups with a tape measure (not very precise, I know) and according to that the pickup is indeed smaller than it should be (less than 4 inches and less than 10cm in total). If the measurement is more or less correct it seems that the production tolerances are rather high.
I mean it's only cosmetic and the pickups sound great, but I had hoped for a perfect fit.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Voice 2 of the Carpenter set has an UNHOLY amount of low end 

I can analyse EQ later but it feels like +6dB at 80-100hz or something. Kinda ridiculous. I’d never use it for rhythm, but it’s actually really nice for thickening up lead tones.


----------



## rawrxd

how are the 8 string Fluence Moderns for technical death / deathcore? mostly for crushing tight low end rhythm playing? Drop E ofc.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Marv Attaxx said:


> That's what made me wonder, too haha.
> Sadly I don't have a caliper. I measured the pickups with a tape measure (not very precise, I know) and according to that the pickup is indeed smaller than it should be (less than 4 inches and less than 10cm in total). If the measurement is more or less correct it seems that the production tolerances are rather high.
> I mean it's only cosmetic and the pickups sound great, but I had hoped for a perfect fit.



How long was it? If it was 3.5", which is about 8.9 cm, then you got the 7-string version not the 8-string.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> How long was it? If it was 3.5", which is about 8.9 cm, then you got the 7-string version not the 8-string.


No, they're definitely the 8 string versions and marked as such. They're just slightly off 

I'll stick to metric now, original dimensions: 
- length: 101.82mm (on the top)
- width: 37.61mm (also on the top)

What I got:
- length: about 99mm
- width: about 35mm

Looks a bit weird under direct light but I'll live with it (also I had to wait 3 months to get them haha) 
Tonewise they're absolutely amazing


----------



## Anil

Hi guys! I have two Schecters, C-1 SLS Elite and KM-6. So, you know, C-1 has the Moderns and KM-6 has FF Keith Merrow set. I want to tune one of them down (to Drop A or B) and I don't know which one responses better for lower tunings. Which one should I choose for it?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Anil said:


> Hi guys! I have two Schecters, C-1 SLS Elite and KM-6. So, you know, C-1 has the Moderns and KM-6 has FF Keith Merrow set. I want to tune one of them down (to Drop A or B) and I don't know which one responses better for lower tunings. Which one should I choose for it?


moderns


----------



## Jeries

Flappydoodle said:


> Voice 2 of the Carpenter set has an UNHOLY amount of low end
> 
> I can analyse EQ later but it feels like +6dB at 80-100hz or something. Kinda ridiculous. I’d never use it for rhythm, but it’s actually really nice for thickening up lead tones.


That’s so odd, I have the complete opposite effect - voice 2 on my carpenter sounds like a Lace - very flat and like an active pickup

it’s voice 1 that’s very fat to me, I don’t know what to say, but I’m confused lol

for me i got fluence for the bi-active selection and I end up using the non active voice 1 voicing mostly

are you confusing voice 1 and 2???maybe? Sorry to ask but it’s boggling my mind you have low end when I use a high cut filter it’s so bright lol


----------



## Hoss632

Anil said:


> Hi guys! I have two Schecters, C-1 SLS Elite and KM-6. So, you know, C-1 has the Moderns and KM-6 has FF Keith Merrow set. I want to tune one of them down (to Drop A or B) and I don't know which one responses better for lower tunings. Which one should I choose for it?


Either guitar will be fine. Considering Keith plays in Drop A and Drop G all the time his pups sound fine down there. That said I'd probably go with the moderns. I think the way they are voiced will cut better in a mix.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Jeries said:


> That’s so odd, I have the complete opposite effect - voice 2 on my carpenter sounds like a Lace - very flat and like an active pickup
> 
> it’s voice 1 that’s very fat to me, I don’t know what to say, but I’m confused lol
> 
> for me i got fluence for the bi-active selection and I end up using the non active voice 1 voicing mostly
> 
> are you confusing voice 1 and 2???maybe? Sorry to ask but it’s boggling my mind you have low end when I use a high cut filter it’s so bright lol




Hmm, maybe voice 1 and 2 are wired different on my guitar. Knob down is super tight and bright. Knob pulled up has a shitload of low end. 

I have the 6 string version of the pickup in an ESP M-I. TOM bridge. Alder body. Maple neck through. So a fairly dark sounding guitar, which may be why the pickup isn’t super shrill or bright. 

The Fishman website says:

Voice 1: “Like the original Modern Fluence sound that I love, but tweaked a bit in the midrange.”

Voice 2: “This is my custom voicing with some tone and gain tweaks to give it that extra heat and edge.”


----------



## InfernalVortex

My C-7 SLS elite has the Fluence Moderns... try as I might I can’t get the weird cocked wah sound out. Do you guys have any suggestions?


----------



## Tisca

Decided on Tosins for my RG2228. Now that there's a white version also, which color do I choose? I like your input for resale value's sake. If I go with white I might also change knobs to white or other bright color. Paint them purple or something.
Here's some photos I found:


----------



## Flappydoodle

Jeries said:


> That’s so odd, I have the complete opposite effect - voice 2 on my carpenter sounds like a Lace - very flat and like an active pickup
> 
> it’s voice 1 that’s very fat to me, I don’t know what to say, but I’m confused lol
> 
> for me i got fluence for the bi-active selection and I end up using the non active voice 1 voicing mostly
> 
> are you confusing voice 1 and 2???maybe? Sorry to ask but it’s boggling my mind you have low end when I use a high cut filter it’s so bright lol



Just to follow up, I strummed a couple of simple chords with "voice 1" and "voice 2"

Then used FabFilter ProQ2 to EQ match and see the changes in the DI signal

View media item 3688
Voice 2 adds an unholy amount of low end, haha. +9-12dB at <100hz, which creates a serious rumble. And also that spike at 1-2.5k and then a big high end sizzle cut.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Alright since i'm quarantined for the 4th time this year (bloody hell), and i'm desperately trying to beat some time, I've decided to do a little pickup shootout for myself. 
I have tested a few actives through my DAW and if somebody wants the audiofile and/or DI i can provide them and of course tell you which ones i used. General question: Anybody interested in a blind shootout?


----------



## Hoss632

slavboi_delight said:


> Alright since i'm quarantined for the 4th time this year (bloody hell), and i'm desperately trying to beat some time, I've decided to do a little pickup shootout for myself.
> I have tested a few actives through my DAW and if somebody wants the audiofile and/or DI i can provide them and of course tell you which ones i used. General question: Anybody interested in a blind shootout?


Should make a video of it and share. That would be cool


----------



## slavboi_delight

Hoss632 said:


> Should make a video of it and share. That would be cool


Was my first intention...but my pc has pretty much exceeded it's life expectancy and is not able to render a 2 minute video + audio file without crashing approximately 42 times.


----------



## Flappydoodle

slavboi_delight said:


> Alright since i'm quarantined for the 4th time this year (bloody hell), and i'm desperately trying to beat some time, I've decided to do a little pickup shootout for myself.
> I have tested a few actives through my DAW and if somebody wants the audiofile and/or DI i can provide them and of course tell you which ones i used. General question: Anybody interested in a blind shootout?



Sure. Why not make a new thread with the files?


----------



## slavboi_delight

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/active-pickup-shootout.346255/
If somebody wants to join in


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Ken just confirmed P90 Fluences coming soon.


----------



## Jeries

Flappydoodle said:


> Just to follow up, I strummed a couple of simple chords with "voice 1" and "voice 2"
> 
> Then used FabFilter ProQ2 to EQ match and see the changes in the DI signal
> 
> View media item 3688
> Voice 2 adds an unholy amount of low end, haha. +9-12dB at <100hz, which creates a serious rumble. And also that spike at 1-2.5k and then a big high end sizzle cut.


thanks for follow up - I was unclear maybe, I meant are you sure you have voice 1 and not voice 2 engaged (meaning a possible wiring mixup: maybe push is active and pull is voice 2(passive?) - because there are many many wiring schemes for these....im not implying you don't know what you're doing, but im just really surprised to not see the same results (mine was also wired by ESP custom shop itself, so I don't know if they really altered the configuration to the ESP preferred, which would tonally change the profile quite noticeably I would think.

there was a post on the ESP forum about this, and the question remained unanswered to this day if you find the cached version - and the question was: if the ESP custom shop wired this thing,[ according to the site, it has totally different wiring, and two different options engaged (including H/F),] it would be totally changed from the standard - and; pick up position is quite different than most other guitars with a double hum bucker in the middle and bridge, rather than neck and bridge - so maybe the ESP custom shop's B8 is not the "same" as a standard swap at as well.

two possibile things that crossed my mind as I read the reply - thanks for your time

How accurate do you believe in that filter/EQ VST tool? I mean do you trust them with home recording or is that a paid plug in? Ive seen it used before, but I don't know what program uses it.

and @Stuck_in_a_dream IDK if you care at all man, but the Duncan JB (and sh4) or something is the basis for the carpenter pickups in passive mode


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

@Jeries I thought the SD JB was the basis for tone 2 on the classics bridge pickup. I have never heard this before about the SCs, seeing that SC mostly (or only) plays 7 & 8-strings, I find it hard to believe, but nothing is impossible w/ SC , he's more intuitive than methodical imho.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Jeries said:


> thanks for follow up - I was unclear maybe, I meant are you sure you have voice 1 and not voice 2 engaged (meaning a possible wiring mixup: maybe push is active and pull is voice 2(passive?) - because there are many many wiring schemes for these....im not implying you don't know what you're doing, but im just really surprised to not see the same results (mine was also wired by ESP custom shop itself, so I don't know if they really altered the configuration to the ESP preferred, which would tonally change the profile quite noticeably I would think.
> 
> there was a post on the ESP forum about this, and the question remained unanswered to this day if you find the cached version - and the question was: if the ESP custom shop wired this thing,[ according to the site, it has totally different wiring, and two different options engaged (including H/F),] it would be totally changed from the standard - and; pick up position is quite different than most other guitars with a double hum bucker in the middle and bridge, rather than neck and bridge - so maybe the ESP custom shop's B8 is not the "same" as a standard swap at as well.
> 
> two possibile things that crossed my mind as I read the reply - thanks for your time
> 
> How accurate do you believe in that filter/EQ VST tool? I mean do you trust them with home recording or is that a paid plug in? Ive seen it used before, but I don't know what program uses it.
> 
> and @Stuck_in_a_dream IDK if you care at all man, but the Duncan JB (and sh4) or something is the basis for the carpenter pickups in passive mode



Hey, no worries. Actually, I don't know what I'm doing, so it's quite possible that voice 1 and 2 are backwards haha. That said, I am happy with my current setup on this guitar because the low end of "voice 2" is too much for normal riffing IMO.

I think the EQ plugin is pretty good. It's from FabFilter who do make good stuff. FWIW, the stock plugin in Logic shows very similar results. It also totally corresponds to what I hear. I definitely don't have the best ears in the game either, but you really can't miss more than +6dB of low end haha

Are you using the 8 string version of the pickup? Maybe it's voiced differently to the 6 string. 

Do you want me to measure the bridge to pickup distance and see whether the placement is different?


----------



## Jeries

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> @Jeries I thought the SD JB was the basis for tone 2 on the classics bridge pickup. I have never heard this before about the SCs, seeing that SC mostly (or only) plays 7 & 8-strings, I find it hard to believe, but nothing is impossible w/ SC , he's more intuitive than methodical imho.


Fellas I might be the one who is wrong - I am basing this from the wiring scheme manual from Fishman and the posts online, so who knows? His wiring scheme is the strangest, he doesn't use half of the tones in his signature profile (literally, I think he uses only voice 1 and 2 for the bridge selection and that is selected by his pickup selector instead of a push/pull pot - if I read it right. That is very strange to me.)

@Flappydoodle = yes, I am using the 8 string. Sorry - that makes a difference now doesn't it. On top of the wiring. So forget the comparison altogether, don't trouble yourself. Plus, are we accounting for (alder body, maple neck, ebony fretboard, neck thru construction, double carbon graphite plates PLUS the wiring scheme is the "ESP preferred"according to the manual) differences as you said? Not till now lol So its all good, sounds like Stuck_in_A_Dream knows much more than I do actually, so please take that in mind


----------



## Flappydoodle

Jeries said:


> Fellas I might be the one who is wrong - I am basing this from the wiring scheme manual from Fishman and the posts online, so who knows? His wiring scheme is the strangest, he doesn't use half of the tones in his signature profile (literally, I think he uses only voice 1 and 2 for the bridge selection and that is selected by his pickup selector instead of a push/pull pot - if I read it right. That is very strange to me.)
> 
> @Flappydoodle = yes, I am using the 8 string. Sorry - that makes a difference now doesn't it. On top of the wiring. So forget the comparison altogether, don't trouble yourself. Plus, are we accounting for (alder body, maple neck, ebony fretboard, neck thru construction, double carbon graphite plates PLUS the wiring scheme is the "ESP preferred"according to the manual) differences as you said? Not till now lol So its all good, sounds like Stuck_in_A_Dream knows much more than I do actually, so please take that in mind



Sure thing. Actually my guitar is an ESP M-I (6 string) with alder body, maple neck through, ebony fretboard. So it's fairly close. I suspect there's a difference simply in the wiring, and I would imagine the 8 string version would be tweaked. What I'm calling "voice 2" would be totally unusable on an 8. It's already so much low end on a 6 haha


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ ...which brings a question that always intrigued me, why Fishman only mentions the peak freq for the 6-string version? Is it the same for all versions? Could that work?


----------



## Jeries

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ ...which brings a question that always intrigued me, why Fishman only mentions the peak freq for the 6-string version? Is it the same for all versions? Could that work?


I do know the Carpenter has a higher peak, I think about 150hz (750 total) vs the modern which is 600khz......does that help your question at all?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Kinda, but I thought that other pickup manufacturers like DiMarzio & SD change their 7 & 8-string pickups' peak frequencies, otherwise they'll respond & sound like poop on the low strings. In my understanding that's why they might sound a bit different than their original 6-string versions. I'm not seeing that communicated by Fishman though, all their support docs show the same exact peak freq. regardless of the pickup version, am I correct in assuming there's something off here?


----------



## TyT

@Dayn
Thanks for sharing.
I have an RG2228 and the Tosin Fluence pickups just arrived.
Any advice on which switch is best for the upgrade. The instructions mention a 5 way super switch and the otax 5 way switch. Is one switch easier to install than the other on a 2228?
Also the coil tap. Did you get that to work with the supplied push pull pot that comes with the pickups? I think two are included with the pickup set (I haven’t checked yet)
I think they just replace your existing pots.
Any advice you could offer would be awesome.
Thanks


----------



## slavboi_delight

TyT said:


> @Dayn
> Thanks for sharing.
> I have an RG2228 and the Tosin Fluence pickups just arrived.
> Any advice on which switch is best for the upgrade. The instructions mention a 5 way super switch and the otax 5 way switch. Is one switch easier to install than the other on a 2228?
> Also the coil tap. Did you get that to work with the supplied push pull pot that comes with the pickups? I think two are included with the pickup set (I haven’t checked yet)
> I think they just replace your existing pots.
> Any advice you could offer would be awesome.
> Thanks


If you have the 5 way switch you can wire them to be split in position 2 and 4. Plus a push/pull to switch the voicings overall. Or have 1 P/P determine the voicing and the other one being the splitting option if you have a 3 way switch. I think the 3 way is stock on the 2228 right?


----------



## Jeries

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Kinda, but I thought that other pickup manufacturers like DiMarzio & SD change their 7 & 8-string pickups' peak frequencies, otherwise they'll respond & sound like poop on the low strings. In my understanding that's why they might sound a bit different than their original 6-string versions. I'm not seeing that communicated by Fishman though, all their support docs show the same exact peak freq. regardless of the pickup version, am I correct in assuming there's something off here?


Yes. You can find it in the literature. I am 100% positively certain the 8 string peaks at 750 whereas the regular modern ceramics are 600.

While I type this, I realize my memory may be a bit blurry on the EXACT accuracy of said respective numbers, but the profile [tonal] and frequency are not the same as the moderns at all - to put it quite simply there is a non-"V" formation in the scoop of the SRC, but it is scooped more like the EMG 81, as said by Fishman themselves, confirmed via call support. Pickup manufacturers don't like to liken themselves to similar companies, and EMG being the only active competitor on the market, Fishman is always hesitant to admit the sonic similitude to EMG, but Michael [I hope you don't mind me giving your first name, Mike, but why lie when people are looking for honest answers, and I omitted his last name, but anyone who knows Fishman staff knows who he is] confirmed the closes thing to an EMG 81 bridge profile would be (voice 2 if I remember but THAT is not certain, one thing out of all this info) of the SRC.

I was meandering through these posts and there was a very rudimentary diagram of what the profile was described to me as, and I hesitate to reproduce it based on the laughter at my last pictogram, but I will do it for your edification, since I am not withholding and people seem to truly be interested in knowing, not only you dude, but for instance, lewis has a great comparison thread almost going to which I can understand why people do go back to the original 81, which everything else seems to try to copy. Anyway, here is the graph and to me, it does match the 81 but it leaves more headroom and optional tone choices via the Fluence circuitboard, however you choose. Hope this helps, and please don't make fun of the "graph"  I have no clue how to make proper visual art


----------



## Dayn

TyT said:


> @Dayn
> Thanks for sharing.
> I have an RG2228 and the Tosin Fluence pickups just arrived.
> Any advice on which switch is best for the upgrade. The instructions mention a 5 way super switch and the otax 5 way switch. Is one switch easier to install than the other on a 2228?
> Also the coil tap. Did you get that to work with the supplied push pull pot that comes with the pickups? I think two are included with the pickup set (I haven’t checked yet)
> I think they just replace your existing pots.
> Any advice you could offer would be awesome.
> Thanks


My tech set it up with Tosin's preferred 5-way wiring and using one of the pots for the voice switch. I'm certainly not a tech guy, but I looked at what the manual said was needed for the 5-way superswitch, then found one on Stewmac that looked the part. I think my tech said it was an awkward fit, but he got it going.


----------



## TyT

slavboi_delight said:


> If you have the 5 way switch you can wire them to be split in position 2 and 4. Plus a push/pull to switch the voicings overall. Or have 1 P/P determine the voicing and the other one being the splitting option if you have a 3 way switch. I think the 3 way is stock on the 2228 right?



Hello
Awesome.
Yeah the three way is standard on the 2228.
I get the impression the 5 way switch gives more options with all the various voicings. I got the impression you couldn’t obtain all the voicings without the 5way.
@Dayne said he has the 5 way switch in his 2228 so wondered if one of the two mentioned 5 way switches was an easy trade for the existing 3 way switch.
Thanks for the idea. I can investigate that as well.


----------



## Justaguitarist

What´s the Fishman Fluence pickup that has the best coil-split in your opinion?


----------



## juka

Justaguitarist said:


> What´s the Fishman Fluence pickup that has the best coil-split in your opinion?


I think all Fluence with a dedicated Voice3 have great "single coil" sounds. Depends on which flavor you prefer: Tosins should have the most modern, Open Coil Classics the most classic and Devins offer a Tele flavor.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Abasi. Followed by open classic/km


----------



## TyT

Hello @Dayne
Awesome thanks.
Definitely want to set it up as Tosin does with all the options if possible.
Sounds like your tech may have used the 5 way super switch not the otax super switch? They are quite a different shape looking in the manual.
I am not any form of tech either just hoping I can source the switch that fits better and give it to the tech.
Do you know if yours was a standard 5way super switch or the otax.
Thanks for all your help. I was hoping you would read my query. Legend thanks.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Otax and the Schaller are wired the same.


----------



## Justaguitarist

diagrammatiks said:


> Abasi. Followed by open classic/km



Is it possible to use the abasis with a fishman fluence single coil in the middle position? Like an hsh setup.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Justaguitarist said:


> Is it possible to use the abasis with a fishman fluence single coil in the middle position? Like an hsh setup.



yup. You can’t really use tosins position 2 with out complex wiring. But you can definitely use hsh


----------



## slavboi_delight

Justaguitarist said:


> What´s the Fishman Fluence pickup that has the best coil-split in your opinion?


yup the townsends really have a nice tele vibe. Haven't played any of the others except for the moderns and those "only" have a split function and not a 3rd voice


----------



## slavboi_delight

I want to change the JB/Jazz in my M2 to the fluence classics but it only has the 1 vol pot and the 3 way toggle. Any solutions on how i can get to not only voice 2 but voice 3 as well?


----------



## Jeries

slavboi_delight said:


> I want to change the JB/Jazz in my M2 to the fluence classics but it only has the 1 vol pot and the 3 way toggle. Any solutions on how i can get to not only voice 2 but voice 3 as well?


https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/switches/mini-toggle-switches.html


----------



## slavboi_delight

Jeries said:


> https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/switches/mini-toggle-switches.html


 thanks but i should have added that i don't want to drill another hole 
are 6way siwtches still a thing?


----------



## Mike

Hey all, noob wiring question here. I'm going to throw a set of fishman moderns into a guitar setup already with the EMG solderless system (right now don't care about v2). From what I gather, the Fishman's do need grounded unlike the EMG's. So here's where I'm a little fuzzy. The guitar is properly shielded (shielding grounded to bridge).

Would/should I need to add a ground wire to the output jack sleeve, or is the pots contacting the grounded shielding a sufficient ground for the fishman's?


----------



## Quiet Coil

slavboi_delight said:


> thanks but i should have added that i don't want to drill another hole
> are 6way siwtches still a thing?



https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/switches/free-way-pickup-switch.html


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Justaguitarist said:


> What´s the Fishman Fluence pickup that has the best coil-split in your opinion?


For dedicated single-coil tones, see below, but if u're actually wondering about actual coil-splitting tones, I tend to like those tones as well. They are not single-coil-y though, say in case of the Moderns, u get a similar tone to V1/V2 humbucker but with much lower output, a bit of brightness, and noise, not an issue for clean tones, but for anything with gain, be forewarned! 



diagrammatiks said:


> Abasi. Followed by open classic/km


Let's not forget the KSE single coil V3, I'd put it up there with the Tosin imho.


----------



## Tisca

TyT said:


> @Dayn
> Thanks for sharing.
> I have an RG2228 and the Tosin Fluence pickups just arrived.
> Any advice on which switch is best for the upgrade. The instructions mention a 5 way super switch and the otax 5 way switch. Is one switch easier to install than the other on a 2228?
> Also the coil tap. Did you get that to work with the supplied push pull pot that comes with the pickups? I think two are included with the pickup set (I haven’t checked yet)
> I think they just replace your existing pots.
> Any advice you could offer would be awesome.
> Thanks


I have Tosins on order for my RG2228 and I'm going one vol with OTAX. Just remember those 2 switches you mentioned are different from a normal 5 way. Pots that are included are good to go.


----------



## LostTheTone

How valuable do you folks generally find switching voices on your various Fishmans? Do you use it a lot, or do you tend to just stick to one that you prefer?

A modern set is in my near future and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to wire it up. I only have 1V, 1T and a 3 way to work with, and (I think) you can wire it to have tone pot be a normal tone for both pickups and also switch the voice of one, but simpler set-up to have 1 push-pull switch both voices I think might be more intuitive to use when playing.

What would you go for?


----------



## diagrammatiks

LostTheTone said:


> How valuable do you folks generally find switching voices on your various Fishmans? Do you use it a lot, or do you tend to just stick to one that you prefer?
> 
> A modern set is in my near future and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to wire it up. I only have 1V, 1T and a 3 way to work with, and (I think) you can wire it to have tone pot be a normal tone for both pickups and also switch the voice of one, but simpler set-up to have 1 push-pull switch both voices I think might be more intuitive to use when playing.
> 
> What would you go for?



1 pp to change voice the other to split the coils


----------



## juka

LostTheTone said:


> How valuable do you folks generally find switching voices on your various Fishmans? Do you use it a lot, or do you tend to just stick to one that you prefer?
> 
> A modern set is in my near future and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to wire it up. I only have 1V, 1T and a 3 way to work with, and (I think) you can wire it to have tone pot be a normal tone for both pickups and also switch the voice of one, but simpler set-up to have 1 push-pull switch both voices I think might be more intuitive to use when playing.
> 
> What would you go for?



When I still had the Moderns I used V1 nearly all the time, since I've changed to the Merrows I use all 3 voices all of the time YMMV


----------



## elkoki

LostTheTone said:


> How valuable do you folks generally find switching voices on your various Fishmans? Do you use it a lot, or do you tend to just stick to one that you prefer?
> 
> A modern set is in my near future and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to wire it up. I only have 1V, 1T and a 3 way to work with, and (I think) you can wire it to have tone pot be a normal tone for both pickups and also switch the voice of one, but simpler set-up to have 1 push-pull switch both voices I think might be more intuitive to use when playing.
> 
> What would you go for?



I mostly only use voice 1 on my Will Adlers which is the "passive" voice. It sounds thicker and more natural if that makes sense than voice 2. 

All Fluence pickups arrive with 2 regular pots and 2 push pull . Doesnt really matter if you use 1 push pull for voice switching or 2 .. 1 worka totally fine


----------



## Julian D.

diagrammatiks said:


> 1 pp to change voice the other to split the coils


To be honest I cannot hear any major differences between both voices at least on the modern ceramic set. Splitting or coil tapping imo gives more value to the sound as the voice option. But I have to say that the Fluence pickups are the best active pickups on the market. I tried them some weeks ago:


----------



## LostTheTone

Julian D. said:


> To be honest I cannot hear any major differences between both voices at least on the modern ceramic set. Splitting or coil tapping imo gives more value to the sound as the voice option. But I have to say that the Fluence pickups are the best active pickups on the market. I tried them some weeks ago:



Ty for the demo - And I do have to agree that I can't hear all that much difference, but also that it kinda doesn't matter all that much.

That's one reason why I wanted to ask because I am somewhat tempted to not even wire up the voice switching to an external control. I'm a big fan of keeping the controls that are accessible to me while playing to a minimum. I will grudgingly put functional pots in the holes that already exist but I don't like to complicate it. 

Where there is a big shift in sound, at least it's obvious if it's been changed without me noticing, but if the shift is small enough that I could tweak two knobs on the amp and get to that sound, then I am suspicious. I don't know how much I would use splitting either, but that does seem more usable. 

Of course, Fluence's do seem to sound just flat out great. The voice switching for me is not what I'm buying them for at all, it's just because they do seem to just sound great. Even if I just wired them up with no extra features I'm sure I'd be happy with them. I guess I'm just trying to get a sense of whether I would really miss not having voices immediately available. 

For the benefit of those of us who are new to Fishman - When you are wiring the coil tap, do you have to just short between the two coil tap solder pads, or do you take two wires from their pads and then wire it like a traditional 4-cable coil tap?


----------



## Marv Attaxx

I have the Tosin Set and while I love to use the single coil tones (the main reason why I bought those pickups), I don't really switch a lot between voice 1 and 2. Isolated you can hear a difference, but once it's in a mix I doubt anyone could differentiate anything. I'm mostly using voice 1 and while it's nice to have something to choose from, I guess for me at least a more minmal setup would've worked, too.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Ken susi confirmed in the last stream that there will be a modern version with single coil as a voice 3 option. Will be released this year.


----------



## elkoki

LostTheTone said:


> How valuable do you folks generally find switching voices on your various Fishmans? Do you use it a lot, or do you tend to just stick to one that you prefer?
> 
> A modern set is in my near future and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to wire it up. I only have 1V, 1T and a 3 way to work with, and (I think) you can wire it to have tone pot be a normal tone for both pickups and also switch the voice of one, but simpler set-up to have 1 push-pull switch both voices I think might be more intuitive to use when playing.
> 
> What would you go for?



Adding to my last reply.. I used the Classics and I find the split coil option (actually all the voices) to be pretty usable. They are some of the best all around pickups i've ever used, they can do pretty much any style you throw at them. So in talking about the Classics, the voices are all good . In my Will Adlers, it's another story.. I think the bridge voice 1 option sounds great distorted, it's a total metal machine... voice 2 sounds good and is completely usable but it's a bit more compressed and saturated that I don't really bother with it. The cleans are not as good and if you wire them in with a split coil option, they don't split as nicely


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I really like voice 2, it's not a huge shift but there's a definite change in the focus. It's not chunky like they say but it adds a fair bit of low mids and takes some of that laser high mid sound off of it. It's like going from a D Activator to a Duncan Distortion. This is all first impressions of course but I'm a huge fan. 57 is still great but I prefer the modern to the 81 so far.


----------



## diagrammatiks

The Epiphone prophecy come with fluence now. But they don't say which fluence they are.

It's three voices like a classic but they never call them classics in the press release. the back of the pickup is actually labeled Epiphone prophecy.

I wonder how those are voiced and what they are based on.


----------



## Strobe

diagrammatiks said:


> The Epiphone prophecy come with fluence now. But they don't say which fluence they are.
> 
> It's three voices like a classic but they never call them classics in the press release. the back of the pickup is actually labeled Epiphone prophecy.
> 
> I wonder how those are voiced and what they are based on.



They are unique to the prophecy. They have 3 voices. One is PAFish (burstbucker as Gibson would say). Another is a modern active sound. Another is a single coil sound - sounded kind of P90ish to me, which would make sense for a Gibson. I have not played one in person (damn you, pandemic) but they sounded nice in videos to my ears.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Strobe said:


> They are unique to the prophecy. They have 3 voices. One is PAFish (burstbucker as Gibson would say). Another is a modern active sound. Another is a single coil sound - sounded kind of P90ish to me, which would make sense for a Gibson. I have not played one in person (damn you, pandemic) but they sounded nice in videos to my ears.


I second that. 
I saw a video from thomann were the guys were talking about a proprietary voice 1 for epiphone and the rest as stated by strobe.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Now that I've read way too much about cocked wah sounds, everytime i chugg away on my moderns, all i hear is wahchuggchuggwahchuggchuggwah. Great.


----------



## diagrammatiks

slavboi_delight said:


> Now that I've read way too much about cocked wah sounds, everytime i chugg away on my moderns, all i hear is wahchuggchuggwahchuggchuggwah. Great.



downtune 5 steps. problem solved


----------



## slavboi_delight

diagrammatiks said:


> downtune 5 steps. problem solved


105 string gauge


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

slavboi_delight said:


> Now that I've read way too much about cocked wah sounds, everytime i chugg away on my moderns, all i hear is wahchuggchuggwahchuggchuggwah. Great.



lowkey I really like the wah sound, a lot less fatiguing to the ears than the grind noise a lot of metal pickups have.


----------



## slavboi_delight

TheBolivianSniper said:


> lowkey I really like the wah sound, a lot less fatiguing to the ears than the grind noise a lot of metal pickups have.


It's weird to be honest. Very love and hate like. Sometimes i like it and as soon as i overthink stuff like pickups, i absolutely despise it.


----------



## diagrammatiks

slavboi_delight said:


> It's weird to be honest. Very love and hate like. Sometimes i like it and as soon as i overthink stuff like pickups, i absolutely despise it.



people say that about the bkp juggernauts. but I love them.


----------



## slavboi_delight

I 


diagrammatiks said:


> people say that about the bkp juggernauts. but I love them.


Always come back to the moderns though. 

Never had a chance to try the juggernauts


----------



## RevDrucifer

Strobe said:


> They are unique to the prophecy. They have 3 voices. One is PAFish (burstbucker as Gibson would say). Another is a modern active sound. Another is a single coil sound - sounded kind of P90ish to me, which would make sense for a Gibson. I have not played one in person (damn you, pandemic) but they sounded nice in videos to my ears.



I wonder how those compare to the Devin Townsend set, as that sounds exactly like it. Actually, when I first got mine and switched it to the Classic setting, the first thing it reminded me of was a Dimarzio PAF I used to have in my 90’s JEMs.

And fairly dead on with the single coil setting as it doesn’t give that Strat/Tele single coil (even though Dev always say “for when I want to get that Tele single coil sound), it’s much warmer than that and reminds me more of a P90.


----------



## Thrashman

So the main thing that stops me from putting the Classics in everything I own is that the voice 3 isn't hum cancelling... 


.. But I just had a thought, since you can select what coil is active on the backside of the pcb by soldering the connection to either south or north... What if I connected both at the same time? Would that put both coils on in parallel in voice 3? In my head it makes perfect sense that it would?


----------



## darkinners

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I really like voice 2, it's not a huge shift but there's a definite change in the focus. It's not chunky like they say but it adds a fair bit of low mids and takes some of that laser high mid sound off of it. It's like going from a D Activator to a Duncan Distortion. This is all first impressions of course but I'm a huge fan. 57 is still great but I prefer the modern to the 81 so far.



For the Fluence Modern I like voice 2 better in my Aristides H/0, the voice 1 sounds a bit too "fat" to my taste and the resonance peak shift on voice 2 makes it sound more aggressive. 
However it's quite strange, on my friend's Strandberg Prog 7, which have the same pickup, even when we plug it in the same amp, same cab same setting, it has an opposite effect, voice 2 sound teeny tiny in his Strandberg compare to my H/0 but voice 1 sound much tighter than on my H/0.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

darkinners said:


> For the Fluence Modern I like voice 2 better in my Aristides H/0, the voice 1 sounds a bit too "fat" to my taste and the resonance peak shift on voice 2 makes it sound more aggressive.
> However it's quite strange, on my friend's Strandberg Prog 7, which have the same pickup, even when we plug it in the same amp, same cab same setting, it has an opposite effect, voice 2 sound teeny tiny in his Strandberg compare to my H/0 but voice 1 sound much tighter than on my H/0.



Yeah it's so weird, I find voice 2 to be tighter and more clear for fast riffing but voice one to have huge chord clarity and cut better. Voice 2 is the quintessential death metal tone though, with the right amp I can do anything from the Symbolic tone to Bolt Thrower to Entombed/In Flames. Love it but voice 1 really is one of my favorite tones too.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Yeah it's so weird, I find voice 2 to be tighter and more clear for fast riffing but voice one to have huge chord clarity and cut better. Voice 2 is the quintessential death metal tone though, with the right amp I can do anything from the Symbolic tone to Bolt Thrower to Entombed/In Flames. Love it but voice 1 really is one of my favorite tones too.


It really depends on the guitar imo. I had moderns in 2 different guitars and in the baritone 6 I had them in, V1 was way too middy/cocked wah djenty flavored for what I like, while v2 was perfect for sludgier 90s DM tones. In my E1 I actually prefer v1 since that midrange doesn't feel so cocked in standard, though there's not enough low end for my tastes. V2 is a bit too fat in the E1 for standard tuning imo.


----------



## slavboi_delight

question for somebody who has an idea of frequencies: 

Do the Fishmans do something weird in the 4k region? I feel like with all the pickups I own, (every) Fishman really spikes somewhere between 2.5k and 4k. Or is my hearing completely off? Could be my headphones as well since I'm bound to use them.


----------



## Quiet Coil

slavboi_delight said:


> question for somebody who has an idea of frequencies:
> 
> Do the Fishmans do something weird in the 4k region? I feel like with all the pickups I own, (every) Fishman really spikes somewhere between 2.5k and 4k. Or is my hearing completely off? Could be my headphones as well since I'm bound to use them.



Ah yes - the “fizz”. Annoyed the crap out of me at first, but I’m used to it now. As far as I’m concerned - whether they realize it or not that’s what really draws some people to them. It’s bringing out things that just aren’t there with most pickups (whether for better or worse is totally subjective).

Not trying to talk smack here - got a set of Moderns in my multi-scale, just sayin’.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Quiet Coil said:


> Ah yes - the “fizz”. Annoyed the crap out of me at first, but I’m used to it now. As far as I’m concerned - whether they realize it or not that’s what really draws some people to them. It’s bringing out things that just aren’t there with most pickups (whether for better or worse is totally subjective).
> 
> Not trying to talk smack here - got a set of Moderns in my multi-scale, just sayin’.



Yep those fizzy highs.
Not talkin smack either, but ever since i slammed the emg hetfields in my guitar, it is getting really obvious, because they have WAY more low mids and a rounder high end. Nothing you can't dial in or out though. But using the same sound on both, it is pretty clear to hear.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Kinda expensive but Mad Hatter is doing a solderless system for Fluence pickups. 

https://madhatterguitarproducts.com/collections/in-fluence

If you are a noob at soldering and figuring out how to wire the other voices, this might be your ticket.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ for a $100!!!! A bit too steep imho. Soldering is not that hard, take it from me, not too long ago I couldn't solder anything to save my life. Get a good soldering iron, and practice with some scrap wires first. Watch Youtube vids if u need, there's tons of step-by-step ones.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ for a $100!!!! A bit too steep imho. Soldering is not that hard, take it from me, not too long ago I couldn't solder anything to save my life. Get a good soldering iron, and practice with some scrap wires first. Watch Youtube vids if u need, there's tons of step-by-step ones.


 
Yeah true. I like soldering and all that stuff. But I realize people also pay almost 200 up for Fluence installations here in my city.

There is certainly a market for it and I hope Fishman takes notice that solderless systems exist for their products. They have the means to produce this.


----------



## Strobe

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ for a $100!!!! A bit too steep imho. Soldering is not that hard, take it from me, not too long ago I couldn't solder anything to save my life. Get a good soldering iron, and practice with some scrap wires first. Watch Youtube vids if u need, there's tons of step-by-step ones.



I agree, but there is a dozen+ page thread dedicated to one guy not knowing how to solder (or go to a tech) and looking for validation that his pickups he does not have to solder are better than the ones he would have to solder.

I will mention that even though I can just figure out how to hook up pickups without a diagram, the Fluence setup with its multiple voice switching is certainly more complicated than most pickups. I have to spend time thinking about it and draw it out for myself, whereas I could do non-tapped, regular pickups in my sleep.


----------



## diagrammatiks

it's just hard the first time. and made a bit harder by the fact they're their cs is a fucking nitwit. 

but once you do it once and figure out what is what it's super easy.


----------



## Mura

Pleased to meet you. 

I recently joined this forum and wrote for the first time. I'm not good at English, so it may be a strange sentence. 

I think the mechanical design of fluence modern is cool, but I don't think it fits into the design of some guitars.

So I pasted 0.5mm Hawaiian Koa material myself and finished it with oil wax. 


Does this look cool?


----------



## Albake21

Mura said:


> Pleased to meet you.
> 
> I recently joined this forum and wrote for the first time. I'm not good at English, so it may be a strange sentence.
> 
> I think the mechanical design of fluence modern is cool, but I don't think it fits into the design of some guitars.
> 
> So I pasted 0.5mm Hawaiian Koa material myself and finished it with oil wax.
> 
> View attachment 92070
> Does this look cool?


That looks really cool! I think it's much better looking than the normal plastic cover


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Mura said:


> Pleased to meet you.
> 
> I recently joined this forum and wrote for the first time. I'm not good at English, so it may be a strange sentence.
> 
> I think the mechanical design of fluence modern is cool, but I don't think it fits into the design of some guitars.
> 
> So I pasted 0.5mm Hawaiian Koa material myself and finished it with oil wax.
> 
> View attachment 92070
> Does this look cool?



Looks awesome man!


----------



## The Monster With .

Mura said:


> Pleased to meet you.
> 
> I recently joined this forum and wrote for the first time. I'm not good at English, so it may be a strange sentence.
> 
> I think the mechanical design of fluence modern is cool, but I don't think it fits into the design of some guitars.
> 
> So I pasted 0.5mm Hawaiian Koa material myself and finished it with oil wax.
> 
> View attachment 92070
> Does this look cool?



I love the look of those, nice job man!


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Without sifting through the 80+ pages of this thread what is the general consensus on the Will Adler set? Been really interested in trying them lately and currently have the 6 string Stef set and Moderns as well as the Devin set coming in soon in a ESP Horizon. Thanks ahead of time.


----------



## lewis

Mura said:


> Pleased to meet you.
> 
> I recently joined this forum and wrote for the first time. I'm not good at English, so it may be a strange sentence.
> 
> I think the mechanical design of fluence modern is cool, but I don't think it fits into the design of some guitars.
> 
> So I pasted 0.5mm Hawaiian Koa material myself and finished it with oil wax.
> 
> View attachment 92070
> Does this look cool?



Wow dude!
an incredible job!

is a thread documenting that process possible at all?
Would be super interested in seeing what goes into doing that.


----------



## lewis

MASS DEFECT said:


> Kinda expensive but Mad Hatter is doing a solderless system for Fluence pickups.
> 
> https://madhatterguitarproducts.com/collections/in-fluence
> 
> If you are a noob at soldering and figuring out how to wire the other voices, this might be your ticket.


The EMG solderless stuff with added push/pull solderless EMG knobs they sell can all be purchased and used


----------



## elkoki

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ for a $100!!!! A bit too steep imho. Soldering is not that hard, take it from me, not too long ago I couldn't solder anything to save my life. Get a good soldering iron, and practice with some scrap wires first. Watch Youtube vids if u need, there's tons of step-by-step ones.



Not only that, you still have to figure out which wires go where if you have a very specific wiring setup. Fluence does not have lots of wiring diagrams and emailing them will not always help either


----------



## elkoki

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yeah true. I like soldering and all that stuff. But I realize people also pay almost 200 up for Fluence installations here in my city.
> 
> There is certainly a market for it and I hope Fishman takes notice that solderless systems exist for their products. They have the means to produce this.



Honestly if you're paying $200 for a pickup installation, you're a total sucker. Good soldering irons can be bought for as little as $25 and learning how to solder is free and a whole lot easier than people think especially YouTube. It's a valuable skill to learn if you're constantly tinkering around with your guitar anyway. Most guitarist dont stick to one set of pickups or have multiple guitars, so it pays off to spend $25 and an hour watching a video / practicing. We all had / have a little extra time because of covid so anything else is just an excuse really. At the end of the day guitar tech / luthiers don't know everything there is to know about guitars and they still screw up. We've all heard the stories and it's happened to me as well where a tech ruined my guitar ..


----------



## elkoki

Apex1rg7x said:


> Without sifting through the 80+ pages of this thread what is the general consensus on the Will Adler set? Been really interested in trying them lately and currently have the 6 string Stef set and Moderns as well as the Devin set coming in soon in a ESP Horizon. Thanks ahead of time.



I have a set, not too sure how many other people on here have them. Overall i'm very happy with them, the bridge has a great modern / high gain tone (OFC). Overall the bridge is a little on the darker side tone wise ( could also be the guitar they're in). The first voice is a little thicker, but still tight, it's my main voice when I pickup that guitar. The second voice has more compression and more gain, think something like a Seymour Duncan Blackout. The neck is (if i'm not mistaken) a Fluence classic neck pickup just in Will Adler's faded gold color. I'm sure you know what that sounds like already if you have other Fluence's. I think the set sounds good overall, but it doesn't have a third voice which is a downside for me. I've been thinking of swapping them out for the Killswitch Engage set, but literally only because those do . The lack of a third voice makes them a little less versatile. Still great pickups though, they breathe life into my guitar.


----------



## slavboi_delight

elkoki said:


> Honestly if you're paying $200 for a pickup installation, you're a total sucker. Good soldering irons can be bought for as little as $25 and learning how to solder is free and a whole lot easier than people think especially YouTube. It's a valuable skill to learn if you're constantly tinkering around with your guitar anyway. Most guitarist dont stick to one set of pickups or have multiple guitars, so it pays off to spend $25 and an hour watching a video / practicing. We all had / have a little extra time because of covid so anything else is just an excuse really. At the end of the day guitar tech / luthiers don't know everything there is to know about guitars and they still screw up. We've all heard the stories and it's happened to me as well where a tech ruined my guitar ..


Totally agree. It took me about 2 to 3 hours of learning time and a few tries to wire passives with 2 split coils and a phase shift and 1 day plus to figure our how to wire the fluence pickups. Once you figure out how pickups work and how they are soldered without push/pulls, then it's not that hard. It really is an investment in yourself since changing pickups cost me about 60 euros at my tech's store. You might want to start with an easy diagram so you won't get disencouraged in the beginning.


----------



## BenSolace

+1 on learning to solder. Hell, I learned that years ago and now I'm looking into doing my own refrets and fret dressing as well as other assorted luthier work. I'll be building my own guitars before long haha.

Also had a Fishman Fluence classic open core in the bridge of my PRS SE Cu24 for a few weeks now and I'm liking it. I typically prefer humbuckers that have an asymmetric wind as it adds more top end articulation and single coilishness (at the expense of some hum cancellation) and this pickup gives that with the benefit of also being quiet. As I put it in an EMG equipped guitar I didn't know you needed to install a bridge ground wire so at first I thought they were a bit noisy


----------



## Mura

lewis said:


> Wow dude!
> an incredible job!
> 
> is a thread documenting that process possible at all?
> Would be super interested in seeing what goes into doing that.



Thank you!

There were a few photos left on my mobile phone that I was making, so I will explain them by pasting some.

I bought a veneer for a guitar head for the original purpose.
The thickness is 0.5 mm.
This is not as easy as paper, but it is a thickness that is easy to cut with a utility knife.
(Ebony or rosewood may have a hard time even if the thickness is the same)




At first, I thought about covering the entire upper part with a piece of veneer without putting a line and making it look like a wooden EMG. However, since it is a fishman fluence, I thought that this cool line should be left.

I put a translucent masking tape on the top of the fishman fluence body and copied the rough size and line position.
Peel off the masking tape so that it does not lose its shape, and attach it to the veneer.
Then cut the veneer so that it is slightly larger than that line.
(I didn't take an image of this work)

Paste the cut out veneer on the PU.
I glued them together with an adhesive called Cemedine X2 from Japan.
I used to love the Dimarzio X2N, so I thought this glue must be powerful and tight.




After that, just rub it with sandpaper to match the outer circumference of the PU and the center line to match the size.
Use a utility knife to peel off the part where the adhesive has squeezed out.

After adjusting the shape of the outer circumference and center line, adjust the surface of the upper surface with fine sandpaper and apply "KEN SMITH CLASSIC WAX POLISH" to complete.

"KEN SMITH CLASSIC WAX POLISH" is something I usually use to care for my fingerboard.
In the future, I think it will be necessary to apply oil to this fishman PU once in a while to keep it clean.




Did that help clarify things?


----------



## Crundles

Fishman thread, I need some advice.

The Fishman FAQ states that the Moderns (as well as Abasi, Carpenter and KSE signature sets) are compatible with fanfret guitars.

Does this mean I can just pick up a set of normal everyday 7-string Fishmans from Thomann and directly slap them into my 25.5-27 fanfret GOC? Or are there any shenanigans I need to be aware of?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Crundles said:


> Fishman thread, I need some advice.
> 
> The Fishman FAQ states that the Moderns (as well as Abasi, Carpenter and KSE signature sets) are compatible with fanfret guitars.
> 
> Does this mean I can just pick up a set of normal everyday 7-string Fishmans from Thomann and directly slap them into my 25.5-27 fanfret GOC? Or are there any shenanigans I need to be aware of?


Depends on how the goc are routed. 
Quick google search tells me they won’t work. Goc uses angled base plates pickups.


----------



## Crundles

diagrammatiks said:


> Depends on how the goc are routed.
> Quick google search tells me they won’t work. Goc uses angled base plates pickups.


I don't have it with me currently, but I did find this pic I took from way back, and it doesn't seem to be the case with mine - should this be ok?


----------



## Mura

Crundles said:


> I don't have it with me currently, but I did find this pic I took from way back, and it doesn't seem to be the case with mine - should this be ok?



As far as I can see the image, it looks fine, but I can't say for sure. 

There may also be a PU height issue. 
I put the TA6 on the starling maj100, but at that time I had to dig down about 3mm of the PU mounting holes on the body.

It's best to check the size with your guitar vendor or the owner of the same guitar.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Crundles said:


> I don't have it with me currently, but I did find this pic I took from way back, and it doesn't seem to be the case with mine - should this be ok?



there’s no problem there from a pure mounting angle.


----------



## Mura

Does anyone use any fishman fluence with Treble Bleed attached?

I have a 0.001μf Treble Bleed on my passive PU guitar and I like how it feels when I turn down the volume on that guitar.
(Of course, full vol sound too.)
I want the same feeling with a guitar with fishman fluence.

Considering that the Tone capacitor resistance value attached to fishman fluence is 0.22 μf, I think that attaching a 0.01 μf capacitor to the Vol pot will give a similar feeling, but if anyone has already tried it, I would like to hear your impressions.


----------



## Mura

I have tried it, so I will report it.

I attached 0.01μf capacitor to vol pot on a guitar with fishman abasis.

It's very similar to a passive PU guitar with a 0.001μf capacitor as a tone bleed and a vol change.

This is a very satisfying result for me, but some people may find the sound of Vol5-7 to be too bright.


----------



## KyleDoesGuitar

Sorry if this has been answered already...
Can Fluence pups be wired in parallel?
Just got the new Keith Merrow mkiii Hybrid. I’m not crazy about the pups. They’re his new single voice ones. Super dark, like Les Paul on steroids dark... Maybe good for really bright amps or dirt pedals. Not articulate at any gain, at stock height. Had to lower both dramatically to get clarity, just w DI -nevermind when you start adding fx...


----------



## RevDrucifer

elkoki said:


> Not only that, you still have to figure out which wires go where if you have a very specific wiring setup. Fluence does not have lots of wiring diagrams and emailing them will not always help either



Mad Hatter would help with that, if they don’t already have the diagram on their site. I bought the EVO Terminator harness for my JEM because it was time to replace the 24-year old pots, had it installed in 15 minutes. Super helpful company, I thought I had an issue with the wire running to the output jack, they sent me a new one immediately, no questions asked. Then when I opened it up, I saw the wire came out of the connector. 

I also tried an Obsidian pre-wired deal in my Strat, it took me 3.5 fucking hours to get the wires into the little connector and then when I got the guitar back together, the middle pot didn’t work at all and if I screwed the pickguard all the way down, it lost output entirely. There’s washers between the pots/pickguard to stop that, but it still happens. Totally fucking useless and a nightmare to install. Mad Hatter has their shit down tight and I’ll be putting their stuff in every guitar I own.

I’m not even terrible with soldering, I’ve made my own momentary switches, wired a ton of pickups, fixed shit around the house, do it at work all the time, etc, but the fact that I can do a pickup change in 5 minutes or less is too good to pass up, especially with me getting ready to do a pickup swap on almost all my guitars. I know I won’t find ones I love right away, so this will make it that much easier.


----------



## Strobe

KyleDoesGuitar said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already...
> Can Fluence pups be wired in parallel?
> Just got the new Keith Merrow mkiii Hybrid. I’m not crazy about the pups. They’re his new single voice ones. Super dark, like Les Paul on steroids dark... Maybe good for really bright amps or dirt pedals. Not articulate at any gain, at stock height. Had to lower both dramatically to get clarity, just w DI -nevermind when you start adding fx...



If you mean inner and outer coil on a single pickup in parallel, there is not a series / parallel switching option on any of the models. Furthermore, series / parallel distinctions can get murky with active pickups where the outputs can get summed in a pre-amp. That said, if you want bright - try the classics. I have never had an issue with clarity on any of the Fishman sets, but if you like bright pickups (I tend to), these are good ones.


----------



## KyleDoesGuitar

Strobe said:


> If you mean inner and outer coil on a single pickup in parallel, there is not a series / parallel switching option on any of the models. Furthermore, series / parallel distinctions can get murky with active pickups where the outputs can get summed in a pre-amp. That said, if you want bright - try the classics. I have never had an issue with clarity on any of the Fishman sets, but if you like bright pickups (I tend to), these are good ones.


Thanks for the reply! -I’m looking to do neck pup in parallel on position 3 and singles from each in parallel on position 2 (Full/Series Bridge position 1)
It sounds like I’m pretty much stuck w what I’ve got. Will look into Abasi’s as they advertise single/split sounds, a bit pricey though. I’m used to Bill Lawrence L-500XLs. Nuno uses an X2N-7, since Bill never made a 7....


----------



## diagrammatiks

KyleDoesGuitar said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already...
> Can Fluence pups be wired in parallel?
> Just got the new Keith Merrow mkiii Hybrid. I’m not crazy about the pups. They’re his new single voice ones. Super dark, like Les Paul on steroids dark... Maybe good for really bright amps or dirt pedals. Not articulate at any gain, at stock height. Had to lower both dramatically to get clarity, just w DI -nevermind when you start adding fx...



technically no since the outputs come from the preamp-out

now there is a way to wire them so that the pre-preamp signal of one coil goes into the signal in of the another pickup. but since the km7's have the same single coil voicing preamp in both pickup it won't make that much of a difference.

I would go over the wiring though. the km7s are a bit darker then the classic on the bridge. but these aren't dark pickups. they should be very very bright.


----------



## elkoki

Crundles said:


> I don't have it with me currently, but I did find this pic I took from way back, and it doesn't seem to be the case with mine - should this be ok?



The uncovered Fluence pickups might fit in that guitar, but the covered ones IDK. the covers make them wider and usually don't fit in direct mounts like yours. but it's worth a try. Just to be clear i'm talking about the non- soap bar ones. The soap bar ones would definitely for sure not fit in there without some routing


----------



## Mura

KyleDoesGuitar said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already...
> Can Fluence pups be wired in parallel?
> Just got the new Keith Merrow mkiii Hybrid. I’m not crazy about the pups. They’re his new single voice ones. Super dark, like Les Paul on steroids dark... Maybe good for really bright amps or dirt pedals. Not articulate at any gain, at stock height. Had to lower both dramatically to get clarity, just w DI -nevermind when you start adding fx...



I found it very unusual for fishmans to sound dark.
Perhaps, isn't HFtilt always on for wiring?


----------



## elkoki

KyleDoesGuitar said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already...
> Can Fluence pups be wired in parallel?
> Just got the new Keith Merrow mkiii Hybrid. I’m not crazy about the pups. They’re his new single voice ones. Super dark, like Les Paul on steroids dark... Maybe good for really bright amps or dirt pedals. Not articulate at any gain, at stock height. Had to lower both dramatically to get clarity, just w DI -nevermind when you start adding fx...



Weird that they sound dark in your guitar. Keith Merrow's set is based off the Classics and those are for certain very bright pickups. Could it be possible that it's your amp or possibly just the guitar..


----------



## KyleDoesGuitar

elkoki said:


> Weird that they sound dark in your guitar. Keith Merrow's set is based off the Classics and those are for certain very bright pickups. Could it be possible that it's your amp or possibly just the guitar..


I’ll be doing a review video -All will be made clear


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Is it just the bridge pickup thst sounds muddy? What about the neck pickup? If that's the case then either you got a bum pickup or the HF tilt on the bridge might have accidentally been replaced IF it has that. 

Also FWIW I remember Ola doing a comparison between the KM3, stock Solar, and an EMG loaded Solar and the KM3 sounded really unclear and muddy compared to the Solars.


----------



## elkoki

KyleDoesGuitar said:


> I’ll be doing a review video -All will be made clear


Link it when available


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Question for you Fluencers (ha!):

I keep seeing demos of people that are using what they’re calling “Voice 2” on the single coil Voice 3. It does not seem to be the HF Tilt either. 

So for any of you that have wired these up, the Open Core Classics to be specific; can you wire up the third voice to have some type of secondary option as well? Or are these people misstating what is going on and it’s another thing like using the other coil of the pickup and not the one dedicated for Voice 3?


----------



## The Monster With .

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluencers (ha!):
> 
> I keep seeing demos of people that are using what they’re calling “Voice 2” on the single coil Voice 3. It does not seem to be the HF Tilt either.
> 
> So for any of you that have wired these up, the Open Core Classics to be specific; can you wire up the third voice to have some type of secondary option as well? Or are these people misstating what is going on and it’s another thing like using the other coil of the pickup and not the one dedicated for Voice 3?



I have the 6 string open core classics and a far as I can tell the single coil "third voice" overrides the other voices, so when I pull up the push pull pot for voice three it goes to the single coil voice, regardless of whether the other push pull pot is on voice 1 or 2. So with the basic wiring from Fishmans with the Open Core Classics there is no secondary single coil voice.


----------



## Jeries

Fluence, including the carpenter and moderns, can do single coil tapping. it just doesn’t have the quick pin connect or pre amp voicing , like Tosin, but you can still do split coil if you solder 

I’m really happy to learn that now because I have two 7 and 8 string equipped Stef Carpenter pickups and one thing I was disappointed that they put single coil for Tosins but not Stefs, especially considering his B8 config

so now I’ll have to solder but at least It’s possible


----------



## Strobe

The Monster With . said:


> I have the 6 string open core classics and a far as I can tell the single coil "third voice" overrides the other voices, so when I pull up the push pull pot for voice three it goes to the single coil voice, regardless of whether the other push pull pot is on voice 1 or 2. So with the basic wiring from Fishmans with the Open Core Classics there is no secondary single coil voice.



That is precisely how the Tosin set works. That said, they don't have a HF Tilt on the Tosin set (or if they do I don't have it wired).


----------



## diagrammatiks

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluencers (ha!):
> 
> I keep seeing demos of people that are using what they’re calling “Voice 2” on the single coil Voice 3. It does not seem to be the HF Tilt either.
> 
> So for any of you that have wired these up, the Open Core Classics to be specific; can you wire up the third voice to have some type of secondary option as well? Or are these people misstating what is going on and it’s another thing like using the other coil of the pickup and not the one dedicated for Voice 3?



it depends on the pickups.

Voice 3 isn’t really a tap or split by itself. 
It takes some combination of wiring and routes it through the voice 3 preamp. 

that voice 3 preamp overrides voice 1 and voice 2. 

some pickups don’t have the voice 3 preamp. For example the original classics and the moderns. 

for this pickups you can tap one of the coils using north/south coil out or the using the coil tap selectors. 

this is using around the winding and sending it through the voice/voice 2 preamp. 

imo this sounds ok and different enough from the non tapped v1/v2. But it definitely doesn’t sound as good as the pickups with the dedicated v3.


----------



## Jeries

Strobe said:


> That is precisely how the Tosin set works. That said, they don't have a HF Tilt on the Tosin set (or if they do I don't have it wired).


Are you sure man? I was told it is on there, but as you indicated, it is rarely wired. From what I understand, and I can be wrong, Fishman put that more or less for the moderns, particularly SRC model because they can be harshly bright, some who enjoy warmer alnico tones would call it shrill and abrasive I would think....but I think Tosin's bottom portion of the pickup would show it, would it not? Can you see it on yours?


----------



## Strobe

Jeries said:


> Are you sure man? I was told it is on there, but as you indicated, it is rarely wired. From what I understand, and I can be wrong, Fishman put that more or less for the moderns, particularly SRC model because they can be harshly bright, some who enjoy warmer alnico tones would call it shrill and abrasive I would think....but I think Tosin's bottom portion of the pickup would show it, would it not? Can you see it on yours?



I went back to the picture I took several years ago when I put the Tosin set in my SG. Not seeing a HF tilt - definitely no pins for it, and not seeing a solder pad either.


----------



## Jeries

Strobe said:


> I went back to the picture I took several years ago when I put the Tosin set in my SG. Not seeing a HF tilt - definitely no pins for it, and not seeing a solder pad either.


Yea, you are indeed correct. However, for what it’s worth I don’t think you need it. Tosin has warmer pickups than the modern (by extension the carpenters as well since they are moderns with a different tonal profile and dynamic response) so the h/f tilt is more for high output ceramic bright tone down, Tosins don’t “need” it

I will say this, I bought some Fluence Carpenter pickups, and I installed them without the h/f tilt, and after installing them , the first thing I thought was “f**** these are bright!”

In fact I’m quite sure SRC were meant for 27” baritone guitars and not standard 25.5” because of how bright and hot they are.

Instead of connecting the h/f tilt, I adjusted my axe presets to compensate for the eq change from my 7 and 8 string carpenters as they work much more suitably in the 8 string

Thanks for confirming



diagrammatiks said:


> it depends on the pickups.
> 
> Voice 3 isn’t really a tap or split by itself.
> It takes some combination of wiring and routes it through the voice 3 preamp.
> 
> that voice 3 preamp overrides voice 1 and voice 2.
> 
> some pickups don’t have the voice 3 preamp. For example the original classics and the moderns.
> 
> for this pickups you can tap one of the coils using north/south coil out or the using the coil tap selectors.
> 
> this is using around the winding and sending it through the voice/voice 2 preamp.
> 
> imo this sounds ok and different enough from the non tapped v1/v2. But it definitely doesn’t sound as good as the pickups with the dedicated v3.


Hey man, are you saying that when you use the soldering coil tap pads (not the pins) method on the modern/carpenter they use the voice 2 preamp?

How do you know which one it’ll “use” or is there a simple bypass so there isn’t a voice , but it’s a coil tapping the pickup poles?

I’m not tech savvy enough to appropriately phrase the question ... sorry


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jeries said:


> Yea, you are indeed correct. However, for what it’s worth I don’t think you need it. Tosin has warmer pickups than the modern (by extension the carpenters as well since they are moderns with a different tonal profile and dynamic response) so the h/f tilt is more for high output ceramic bright tone down, Tosins don’t “need” it
> 
> I will say this, I bought some Fluence Carpenter pickups, and I installed them without the h/f tilt, and after installing them , the first thing I thought was “f**** these are bright!”
> 
> In fact I’m quite sure SRC were meant for 27” baritone guitars and not standard 25.5” because of how bright and hot they are.
> 
> Instead of connecting the h/f tilt, I adjusted my axe presets to compensate for the eq change from my 7 and 8 string carpenters as they work much more suitably in the 8 string
> 
> Thanks for confirming
> 
> 
> Hey man, are you saying that when you use the soldering coil tap pads (not the pins) method on the modern/carpenter they use the voice 2 preamp?
> 
> How do you know which one it’ll “use” or is there a simple bypass so there isn’t a voice , but it’s a coil tapping the pickup poles?
> 
> I’m not tech savvy enough to appropriately phrase the question ... sorry



the moderns don’t have a v3 preamp currently. So when you tap it will use whatever preamp it’s set too.


----------



## Tisca

Waited for these 8s for months. Got pushed back so many times.


----------



## elkoki

Maybe I should've posted here first... Who owns the KSE set? What are you general thoughts on them?


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Tisca said:


> Waited for these 8s for months. Got pushed back so many times.



Please toss up a review once you have them in a guitar. I’m constantly back and forth between the Open Core 8s and the Abasi set.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I know we're still under pandemic and all, but music instrument sales have been thru the roof. Why hasn't Fishman released any new Fluence pickups? They have been teasing us for more than a year now about the P90s, the Matt Heafy sig., Moderns w/ V3, etc., what's up?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I know we're still under pandemic and all, but music instrument sales have been thru the roof. Why hasn't Fishman released any new Fluence pickups? They have been teasing us for more than a year now about the P90s, the Matt Heafy sig., Moderns w/ V3, etc., what's up?



because there's like 10 people actually working right now and one of them is ken susi.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I know we're still under pandemic and all, but music instrument sales have been thru the roof. Why hasn't Fishman released any new Fluence pickups? They have been teasing us for more than a year now about the P90s, the Matt Heafy sig., Moderns w/ V3, etc., what's up?



I'm REEEALLY hoping they make humcap/humbucker sized covered 8 string models soon. IE: Abasis, Moderns, Carpenters. 

I am not holding my breath though and doubt they'll ever make them at this point.


----------



## Giorgi

I am really excited to try them out one day


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

diagrammatiks said:


> because there's like 10 people actually working right now and one of them is ken susi.



U mean due to pandemic? But they are not the only company under these circumstances, and they are not a small company. I have made several orders from HipShot (based in NY) in the last year, I couldn't tell there's anything different, they put a limited inventory warning for a while there, but all good now. I would tend to think Fishman is comparable to a company like HipShot. Warmoth is another example.

Well, my 2nd vaccination is in early May, so I hope we'll get to a more normal situation soon.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> U mean due to pandemic? But they are not the only company under these circumstances, and they are not a small company. I have made several orders from HipShot (based in NY) in the last year, I couldn't tell there's anything different, they put a limited inventory warning for a while there, but all good now. I would tend to think Fishman is comparable to a company like HipShot. Warmoth is another example.
> 
> Well, my 2nd vaccination is in early May, so I hope we'll get to a more normal situation soon.



I think putting out a new pickup requires more then just production capacity. 
The rocklins were announced and I’ve heard an updated modern is in the works.


----------



## Tisca

Done installing Tosins in my RG2228.
5-way OTAX with single push-pull vol pot.


----------



## juka

diagrammatiks said:


> I think putting out a new pickup requires more then just production capacity.
> The rocklins were announced and I’ve heard an updated modern is in the works.



...and they put out the exclusive to Epiphone Prophecy Fluences including a modern, a classic and a single coil voice, which I find quite an appealing choice of voicings in one pup, especially as they claim the single coil voice to be "hum-free" which is not necessarily the case with their other offerings.
...so they seem to be working on a lot of things, but releases to the public indeed are very low at the moment.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Looking for some suggestions/help on an issue I'm having...

So I got my ESP USA Horizon with mahogany body, set thru neck and ebony board with Fishman Modern's installed. I'm used to Alder Horizons in the past so I'm having a hard time gelling with this combo so far...I have the Moderns in a all Mahogany body Jim Root Strat and they work great in that guitar. In the Horizon they just seem dull and lifeless. There's no attack and it just somewhat muddy overall. I want to yank them out and try a different Fluence pickup before I yank it all out for some passives. Which Fluence would be a better option, tuned to drop C btw.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Apex1rg7x said:


> Looking for some suggestions/help on an issue I'm having...
> 
> So I got my ESP USA Horizon with mahogany body, set thru neck and ebony board with Fishman Modern's installed. I'm used to Alder Horizons in the past so I'm having a hard time gelling with this combo so far...I have the Moderns in a all Mahogany body Jim Root Strat and they work great in that guitar. In the Horizon they just seem dull and lifeless. There's no attack and it just somewhat muddy overall. I want to yank them out and try a different Fluence pickup before I yank it all out for some passives. Which Fluence would be a better option, tuned to drop C btw.



Do you have a DAW or amp sim or a way to run DIs through your rig?

If you do, check these two videos:





He has DIs of both the Moderns and Classics in a Les Paul. I’ve found his DIs to be some of the better ones for screwing around with to check the pickups. 

The Classics may give you the brightness and clarity you’re missing.


----------



## elkoki

Apex1rg7x said:


> Looking for some suggestions/help on an issue I'm having...
> 
> So I got my ESP USA Horizon with mahogany body, set thru neck and ebony board with Fishman Modern's installed. I'm used to Alder Horizons in the past so I'm having a hard time gelling with this combo so far...I have the Moderns in a all Mahogany body Jim Root Strat and they work great in that guitar. In the Horizon they just seem dull and lifeless. There's no attack and it just somewhat muddy overall. I want to yank them out and try a different Fluence pickup before I yank it all out for some passives. Which Fluence would be a better option, tuned to drop C btw.



It's probably your guitar that's the problem


----------



## Apex1rg7x

elkoki said:


> It's probably your guitar that's the problem


The guitar? Do you care to elaborate at all?


----------



## elkoki

Apex1rg7x said:


> The guitar? Do you care to elaborate at all?



It's possible the guitar doesnt have the sound you're looking for. I think at times we give pickups too much credit for the overall sound . I know theres lots of things at play when it comes to tone but a big part of it is also the guitar you're using, some guitars just don't gel with us...in your case it could be the pickups, but I've had guitars in the past that never quite sounded right to me so I'd swap the pickups over and over ... then I just realized maybe this guitar isn't for me.. each guitar has its own characteristics , resonance etc and regardless of the pickups those characteristics are still always there, if theres nothing you like about a tone of a particular guitar a pickup swap likely wont change that.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

elkoki said:


> It's possible the guitar doesnt have the sound you're looking for. I think at times we give pickups too much credit for the overall sound . I know theres lots of things at play when it comes to tone but a big part of it is also the guitar you're using, some guitars just don't gel with us...in your case it could be the pickups, but I've had guitars in the past that never quite sounded right to me so I'd swap the pickups over and over ... then I just realized maybe this guitar isn't for me.. each guitar has its own characteristics , resonance etc and regardless of the pickups those characteristics are still always there, if theres nothing you like about a tone of a particular guitar a pickup swap likely wont change that.


I mean I pretty much knew what you were thinking but I had to ask to be sure, haha. Yeah it would be a shame if that's the case since the guitar is so damn nice. I'll try a set that's a bit brighter and see what does before I do anything too crazy.


----------



## elkoki

Apex1rg7x said:


> I mean I pretty much knew what you were thinking but I had to ask to be sure, haha. Yeah it would be a shame if that's the case since the guitar is so damn nice. I'll try a set that's a bit brighter and see what does before I do anything too crazy.


Hm... well what's brighter than Fishman Fluence Moderns ?


----------



## diagrammatiks

elkoki said:


> Hm... well what's brighter than Fishman Fluence Moderns ?



classics. townsends


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

elkoki said:


> It's possible the guitar doesnt have the sound you're looking for. I think at times we give pickups too much credit for the overall sound . I know theres lots of things at play when it comes to tone but a big part of it is also the guitar you're using, some guitars just don't gel with us...in your case it could be the pickups, but I've had guitars in the past that never quite sounded right to me so I'd swap the pickups over and over ... then I just realized maybe this guitar isn't for me.. each guitar has its own characteristics , resonance etc and regardless of the pickups those characteristics are still always there, if theres nothing you like about a tone of a particular guitar a pickup swap likely wont change that.





Yeah I'm dealing with that one right now. I can't believe I'm saying this but if I wanna tune my SV lower than D it's looking like I need something brighter than EMGs which is ridiculous. There's literally none of the metallic clangy thing they're known for and it's all low mids and chunk with a really jagged top end. 

I don't wanna go with moderns since they are so so damn tight. Anyone know of a set that keeps the tightness and cut of moderns without losing some chunk? Like both of my guitars are really thick and aggressive and it's nice but idk I have a feeling it's gonna get too much quick.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

diagrammatiks said:


> classics. townsends


I have both of these sets at the top of the list.


----------



## elkoki

diagrammatiks said:


> classics. townsends


The classics are bright pickups but they're not as tight as any ceramic pickups which could end up making the overall sound even muddier. Normally moderns or classics aren't muddy but in his guitar it's another story . Some of the darkest sounding guitars I've played were usually all mahogany body and neck guitars


----------



## juka

diagrammatiks said:


> classics. townsends



Interesting that you mentioned the Townsends as being bright.
Maybe my set was defective then, because I always kept reaching for the tone pot to check it's fully open. Mine always sounded like the HF tilt was enabled (which Fishman support assured me that the Townsends didn't have that feature at all) or the tone halfway down... Without that they would have easily become my favorite Fishman set...


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Fluence 90s y'all.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Kyle Jordan said:


> Fluence 90s y'all.




love this and the tele set. 

also awesome that they can do out of phase now.

only thing I want...and I know I'm probably the only person that wants this is a super hot mode.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

diagrammatiks said:


> only thing I want...and I know I'm probably the only person that wants this is a super hot mode.




If I ever were to be able to develop a set of signature Fluences, it'd be an 8 string single set with Voice 1 being a combo of Voice 1 from the regular single widths and the Gristletones, and Voice 2 a very hot Fluenced EMG SX with less mids. So, I'm with you on wanting hot singles.


----------



## thorgan

Does anyone happen to know if open core type fluences can have a pickup cover added? Just ordered the reyes set and am just debating the aesthetics of the guitar Im dropping them into and wondering if its an option


----------



## elkoki

thorgan said:


> Does anyone happen to know if open core type fluences can have a pickup cover added? Just ordered the reyes set and am just debating the aesthetics of the guitar Im dropping them into and wondering if its an option



You need to solder pickup covers to the bottom of the pickup, you can't do that to uncovered Fluence's because the bottom of the pickup is a printed circuit board. You could try messaging Fishman though. Usually you need to solder the cover on because it needs to be grounded..


----------



## thorgan

elkoki said:


> You need to solder pickup covers to the bottom of the pickup, you can't do that to uncovered Fluence's because the bottom of the pickup is a printed circuit board. You could try messaging Fishman though. Usually you need to solder the cover on because it needs to be grounded..


Ahh that makes sense, appreciate the reply


----------



## Kyle Jordan

thorgan said:


> Does anyone happen to know if open core type fluences can have a pickup cover added? Just ordered the reyes set and am just debating the aesthetics of the guitar Im dropping them into and wondering if its an option



I’ve been toying with the idea of vinyl wraps if I go with Fluences or EMGs. Some of the materials may be a bit too thick though. Not that they would interfere with the tone directly, but height concerns.


----------



## juka

The classics are available as "covered" and open-coils, but even at that point Fluence are nothing like conventional pups as they not just put a metal cover over the coils, it's a quite different construction underneath.

Really wish they would offer more color options on their various models. Had to use Jockomo Pickup stickers to turn my Merrows into Zebra (with questionable results).


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

juka said:


> The classics are available as "covered" and open-coils, but even at that point Fluence are nothing like conventional pups as they not just put a metal cover over the coils, it's a quite different construction underneath.
> 
> Really wish they would offer more color options on their various models. Had to use Jockomo Pickup stickers to turn my Merrows into Zebra (with questionable results).



They have been so stagnant imho, all pickups should be available for 6, 7, 8 strings, in both humbucker and bar formats. How about a custom shop option (e.g. custom voices) as well, that'd be dope.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> They have been so stagnant imho, all pickups should be available for 6, 7, 8 strings, in both humbucker and bar formats. How about a custom shop option (e.g. custom voices) as well, that'd be dope.


still super bummed about the carpenters not being available in 6 string anymore.


----------



## slavboi_delight

elkoki said:


> It's possible the guitar doesnt have the sound you're looking for. I think at times we give pickups too much credit for the overall sound . I know theres lots of things at play when it comes to tone but a big part of it is also the guitar you're using, some guitars just don't gel with us...in your case it could be the pickups, but I've had guitars in the past that never quite sounded right to me so I'd swap the pickups over and over ... then I just realized maybe this guitar isn't for me.. each guitar has its own characteristics , resonance etc and regardless of the pickups those characteristics are still always there, if theres nothing you like about a tone of a particular guitar a pickup swap likely wont change that.



Never believed in tonewood until i changed pu's in my M2 
The JB had a super snarly and high mid spike which i thought was the JB only 
Put an 81/89 combination in and still, that snarl is still present just a tad less aggressive.


----------



## elkoki

slavboi_delight said:


> Never believed in tonewood until i changed pu's in my M2
> The JB had a super snarly and high mid spike which i thought was the JB only
> Put an 81/89 combination in and still, that snarl is still present just a tad less aggressive.



It's not necessarily all tone wood either.. Lots of things come into play too, hardware, scale length, bolt on or not etc.. Each guitar has it's own natural resonance and you can sorta mask it with certain pickups but a guitar will always sorta sound like itself no matter what's in it. It's like adding Gibson Les Paul pickups in a Fender Strat hoping it'll sound like a Gibson or the other way around.. Pickups are just a small part of the overall chain.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

slavboi_delight said:


> still super bummed about the carpenters not being available in 6 string anymore.



For me, I'm really bummed they don't offer 7, or 8 string versions of KSE, I think it'll sound phenomenal.


----------



## slavboi_delight

elkoki said:


> It's not necessarily all tone wood either.. Lots of things come into play too, hardware, scale length, bolt on or not etc.. Each guitar has it's own natural resonance and you can sorta mask it with certain pickups but a guitar will always sorta sound like itself no matter what's in it. It's like adding Gibson Les Paul pickups in a Fender Strat hoping it'll sound like a Gibson or the other way around.. Pickups are just a small part of the overall chain.


I just put it all under the "umbrella" of tone wood
Yeah absolutely
But I always thought why should the quality of the wood, neck construction and so on, play any role when it comes to sound


----------



## thorgan

Alright so I'm putting the Javier Reyes set in my guitar, everything is wired up as the diagram, just troubleshooting now.

Basically only the bridge and voice three work properly across all three voices.

When the bridge and neck is selected, bridge is still strong across all voices, and neck is weak in all voices except voice three when it is even to the bridge.

With the neck selected it is weak and the bridge is active and weak as well in all voices except voice three.

Any help is appreciated, so far I've regrounded the pickup wire, reattached it to the switch, checked the connections under the pickup, regrounded the voice 2 push pull middle row, and checked the connections of the green and orange wires on the voice two push pull. The fact that the neck is working in voice three is making me think the volume, switch, battery, and output are all fine.

Anyone have any ideas or experience?


----------



## diagrammatiks

thorgan said:


> Alright so I'm putting the Javier Reyes set in my guitar, everything is wired up as the diagram, just troubleshooting now.
> 
> Basically only the bridge and voice three work properly across all three voices.
> 
> When the bridge and neck is selected, bridge is still strong across all voices, and neck is weak in all voices except voice three when it is even to the bridge.
> 
> With the neck selected it is weak and the bridge is active and weak as well in all voices except voice three.
> 
> Any help is appreciated, so far I've regrounded the pickup wire, reattached it to the switch, checked the connections under the pickup, regrounded the voice 2 push pull middle row, and checked the connections of the green and orange wires on the voice two push pull. The fact that the neck is working in voice three is making me think the volume, switch, battery, and output are all fine.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas or experience?




Disconnect the bridge and all the voicing jumpers on the neck. Test the output wire on the neck by itself.


----------



## elkoki

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> For me, I'm really bummed they don't offer 7, or 8 string versions of KSE, I think it'll sound phenomenal.



At first I thought the KSE set sounded decent... but like 2 days in I found they are too bright and I just generally don't like the bridge voices  .. I'm not a big fan of these pickups but i'm a huge KSE fan


----------



## thorgan

diagrammatiks said:


> Disconnect the bridge and all the voicing jumpers on the neck. Test the output wire on the neck by itself.


Did this, got weak signal still in all three voices on the neck pickup, I want to say it's a ground or connection issue with the neck, but it works perfectly in voice three? (with the jumpers attached) so im not sure if it's something wrong related to a connection on the volume pot when not pulled?


----------



## bzhang9

question for fishman pros. one of my push pull pots broke, can I replace with any 25k push pull or do they need to be proper fishman pots to sound right?


----------



## elkoki

bzhang9 said:


> question for fishman pros. one of my push pull pots broke, can I replace with any 25k push pull or do they need to be proper fishman pots to sound right?



You can use any 25k push pull as far as I can tell


----------



## diagrammatiks

thorgan said:


> Did this, got weak signal still in all three voices on the neck pickup, I want to say it's a ground or connection issue with the neck, but it works perfectly in voice three? (with the jumpers attached) so im not sure if it's something wrong related to a connection on the volume pot when not pulled?



if you're testing it fully isolated then it sounds like there’s a problem with the pickup.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

elkoki said:


> At first I thought the KSE set sounded decent... but like 2 days in I found they are too bright and I just generally don't like the bridge voices  .. I'm not a big fan of these pickups but i'm a huge KSE fan



I have them in a basswood guitar, sound awesome.


----------



## slavboi_delight

After 1 year of testing various fishman models i pretty much came to the conclusion, they are just not my cup of tea.
Not that i absolutely dislike them, they are, for whatever reason, just not pleasurable to my ears.


----------



## Travis5151

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also use a jumper on the HF Tilt pins if you feel the pickups are too sharp and shrill.


Hi! Where do you find those pins? My ceramic doesn’t seem to have it, just a v1 low gain.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Travis5151 said:


> Hi! Where do you find those pins? My ceramic doesn’t seem to have it, just a v1 low gain.


Do you have a picture of the pickups? They changed the placement over the years


----------



## Albake21

slavboi_delight said:


> After 1 year of testing various fishman models i pretty much came to the conclusion, they are just not my cup of tea.
> Not that i absolutely dislike them, they are, for whatever reason, just not pleasurable to my ears.


I arrived at the same conclusion. I tried many different sets in many different guitars. I love their clarity and versatility, but that's it. They still sound and feel like active pickups, and every time I had them installed in a guitar, I just missed a regular wounded pickup.


----------



## Travis5151

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Do you have a picture of the pickups? They changed the placement over the years


I don’t have a picture but the pickups match this picture.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Albake21 said:


> I arrived at the same conclusion. I tried many different sets in many different guitars. I love their clarity and versatility, but that's it. They still sound and feel like active pickups, and every time I had them installed in a guitar, I just missed a regular wounded pickup.



yeah i second that. Clarity and everything is great and i like the idea of having "more than one pickup" in one pickup. But they just don't feel right for me.


----------



## elkoki

Albake21 said:


> I arrived at the same conclusion. I tried many different sets in many different guitars. I love their clarity and versatility, but that's it. They still sound and feel like active pickups, and every time I had them installed in a guitar, I just missed a regular wounded pickup.



IKR. Those are my thoughts too. Fluence pickups are by no means bad, they have a unique sound quality unlike any other pickup i've tried before.. But sometimes you just miss a normal passive tone and feel. Fluence's are definitely closer to passives than say something like an EMG 81/85 set but they still have an unnatural quality that can be a turn off to people.


----------



## thorgan

diagrammatiks said:


> if you're testing it fully isolated then it sounds like there’s a problem with the pickup.


Unfortunately I gotta agree with you, neck pickup is dead brand new out of the box, I reversed the positions on my wiring and the bridge worked and neck still didn't so I know the wiring is not the issue. Pretty disappointing for things to be broken from the factory on such an expensive piece of kit.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Travis5151 said:


> I don’t have a picture but the pickups match this picture.



It says on the schematic that the HF tilt is the orange and yellow wires. It's inbetween the voicing pins and the gain switch pins.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

thorgan said:


> Unfortunately I gotta agree with you, neck pickup is dead brand new out of the box, I reversed the positions on my wiring and the bridge worked and neck still didn't so I know the wiring is not the issue. Pretty disappointing for things to be broken from the factory on such an expensive piece of kit.



I've had to deal with a dead pickup as well. Ive heard a couple of times of reliability issues with the Fluence line.


----------



## thorgan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've had to deal with a dead pickup as well. Ive heard a couple of times of reliability issues with the Fluence line.


Did you have any issues with getting a replacement? I'd prefer to get a replacement than a refund since these are the ones I want for this guitar, but definitely makes me unlikely to go for them in future cases


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

thorgan said:


> Did you have any issues with getting a replacement? I'd prefer to get a replacement than a refund since these are the ones I want for this guitar, but definitely makes me unlikely to go for them in future cases


Nah, went with a refund from the store I bought them from (Music Zoo). I'm hard-headed; when I get a defective product, I go full refund and get something else.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

thorgan said:


> Did you have any issues with getting a replacement? I'd prefer to get a replacement than a refund since these are the ones I want for this guitar, but definitely makes me unlikely to go for them in future cases



In my case, I only had issues with a classic set, happened late last summer, had to exchange it twice (from Amazon) until success.


----------



## Hoss632

Anyone excited and/or curious to hear the new fishman p90's once they are released?


----------



## cardinal

I need a passive-sized 8-string pickup. 

Are any of the Fluence offerings high output? Like a Duncan Distortion or Dimarzio Super Distortion. Not looking for PAF-ish output. 

Thanks!


----------



## juka

Javier Reyes signature should be the highest output in open coil format


----------



## diagrammatiks

cardinal said:


> I need a passive-sized 8-string pickup.
> 
> Are any of the Fluence offerings high output? Like a Duncan Distortion or Dimarzio Super Distortion. Not looking for PAF-ish output.
> 
> Thanks!


 
all of them are high output except the tele pickups.


----------



## juka

Yes, you're right,
all Fishman Humbuckers do not lack in output at all,
nevertheless they have this strange logic of low, medium and high output within their humbucker line when you look at the descriptions on their website, which probably is more linked to sound characteristics than to actual output rates.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

juka said:


> Javier Reyes signature should be the highest output in open coil format



Hmmm...that was not my experience with the JR set at all. I'd say it's as hot as the Moderns. Among the ones I have (all but DT, WA) the Tosins are the hottest by far.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I want to know why they won’t make a 7 string pickup in gold.


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Hmmm...that was not my experience with the JR set at all. I'd say it's as hot as the Moderns. Among the ones I have (all but DT, WA) the Tosins are the hottest by far.


The original poster was asking about opencoil format specifically, a form factor neither the Tosins nor the moderns are available in.


----------



## diagrammatiks

juka said:


> The original poster was asking about opencoil format specifically, a form factor neither the Tosins nor the moderns are available in.



He was asking about passive sized. Not the same as open coil

but doesn’t look like they are available passive sized


----------



## cardinal

Yeah, I've asked them for a passive-sized Modern 8, and they said it's not going to happen. 

I just ended up ordering a Dimarzio. Meh.


----------



## Hoss632

cardinal said:


> Yeah, I've asked them for a passive-sized Modern 8, and they said it's not going to happen.
> 
> I just ended up ordering a Dimarzio. Meh.


Only active I can think of that's the same size as passives are the kiesel polarity set. And they sound good in an 8 string.


----------



## Guamskyy

Anyone see the new Greg Koch fluence p90s?



I know someone here was told it’s not possible to mix a fluence humbucker and single coil, but man I’d love to mix a tosin bridge with a p90 neck if I could!


----------



## diagrammatiks

Guamskyy said:


> Anyone see the new Greg Koch fluence p90s?
> 
> 
> 
> I know someone here was told it’s not possible to mix a fluence humbucker and single coil, but man I’d love to mix a tosin bridge with a p90 neck if I could!




sure you can.


----------



## Hoss632

Guamskyy said:


> Anyone see the new Greg Koch fluence p90s?
> 
> 
> 
> I know someone here was told it’s not possible to mix a fluence humbucker and single coil, but man I’d love to mix a tosin bridge with a p90 neck if I could!



I saw a demo on them. They sound fantastic. Especially voice 2 which is the hot rodded version. Really gets the 2000's punk vibe going.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Am I crazy, Greg Koch's playing/style just ruins it for me. He can play for sure, but I don't want anything to do with what he plays, sorry. The closest I get to this style of playing is when I listen to Richie Kotzen, and he's a fierce shredder at heart. Can they have someone else, pleeeeease! How about someone w/ some real Jazz chops.


----------



## Matt08642

Guamskyy said:


> Anyone see the new Greg Koch fluence p90s?




I don't know much about P90s so I don't know if this is good tone for that style of pickup, but it sounds great in the video to me


----------



## trickae

How do the moderns compare to the Tosin set?


----------



## diagrammatiks

trickae said:


> How do the moderns compare to the Tosin set?



kinda terribly. 
The moderns are a bit heavier. but the Tosin has them beat on versatility and split coil tones.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

diagrammatiks said:


> kinda terribly.
> The moderns are a bit heavier. but the Tosin has them beat on versatility and split coil tones.



Can't agree more. Also, IME, the Tosins are much more sensitive to distance from strings. For me, there's a particular sweet spot for the Tosin neck pickup in my Aristides 070R where it just sings, one of my favorite neck lead tones ever. I'm always surprised when I hear Tosin saying that these pickups were optimized for cleans, I'm like "What's he talking about?"


----------



## ElRay

Which of the Fluences available in 7-string are the least compressed? Unfortunately, the descriptions are "imprecise". 

A lot of the descriptions of the Moderns say they're "less compressed" than EMGs. That still implies they're compressed
The Merrow's are supposed to be very passive-like and are supposed to have "up-front dynamics", but I've seen reviews that say they're compressed and don't have the dynamics you'd expect
Classics don't have any info other than V1 on the neck has "the dynamics and output level you want."
V2 on the Tosin's are described as having "Passive pickup perfection", but I've seen reviews that say they're too compressed, which I would expect, if they're intended to have a mode optimized for tapping.
I haven't been able to find anything regarding dynamics/compressiveness of the Javier Reyes set.


----------



## elkoki

ElRay said:


> Which of the Fluences available in 7-string are the least compressed? Unfortunately, the descriptions are "imprecise".
> 
> A lot of the descriptions of the Moderns say they're "less compressed" than EMGs. That still implies they're compressed
> The Merrow's are supposed to be very passive-like and are supposed to have "up-front dynamics", but I've seen reviews that say they're compressed and don't have the dynamics you'd expect
> Classics don't have any info other than V1 on the neck has "the dynamics and output level you want."
> V2 on the Tosin's are described as having "Passive pickup perfection", but I've seen reviews that say they're too compressed, which I would expect, if they're intended to have a mode optimized for tapping.
> I haven't been able to find anything regarding dynamics/compressiveness of the Javier Reyes set.



Listen to many online demos of each and go with what sounds better to you. The classics should be less compressed (I think?) than all the others. In the end go by what you like, not what someone else thinks...


----------



## ElRay

elkoki said:


> Listen to many online demos of each and go with what sounds better to you. The classics should be less compressed (I think?) than all the others. In the end go by what you like, not what someone else thinks...


Thanks. Tone-wise I know which ones I like, but online demos are not going to be able to show compression/lack-of-dynamics, unless the demo makes a point of playing softly and loudly w/o additional compression in the signal chain.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Look up a guy on YouTube named Gerry Trevino. He has a couple of demos of the Classics vs other pickups and he includes DI files to download. They are the 6 string OG versions with no voice 3, but they’re some of the better DIs I’ve found. They are what turned me on to the Classics and made me track some down to try. They’re my favorite Fluences still and supposedly, the 7 and 8 string Open Cores sound just like them. I recently tried out 7 string Merrows as those are adjacent supposedly to Classics and was underwhelmed. That said, I have my suspicions that the pickups in the guitar I played may have had some type of issue.


----------



## juka

Kyle Jordan said:


> Look up a guy on YouTube named Gerry Trevino. He has a couple of demos of the Classics vs other pickups and he includes DI files to download. They are the 6 string OG versions with no voice 3, but they’re some of the better DIs I’ve found. They are what turned me on to the Classics and made me track some down to try. They’re my favorite Fluences still and supposedly, the 7 and 8 string Open Cores sound just like them. I recently tried out 7 string Merrows as those are adjacent supposedly to Classics and was underwhelmed. That said, I have my suspicions that the pickups in the guitar I played may have had some type of issue.



When you heard a difference in the neck position(s) then there def was an issue as they are exactly the same.
Regarding the bridge pups: I never had a chance to really play them side by side, but I remember liking the classic when I tried it some years ago and there is a reason why the Merrow bridge pup is my No. 1 since I first put it in one of my guitars in 2019.


----------



## Hoss632

ElRay said:


> Which of the Fluences available in 7-string are the least compressed? Unfortunately, the descriptions are "imprecise".
> 
> A lot of the descriptions of the Moderns say they're "less compressed" than EMGs. That still implies they're compressed
> The Merrow's are supposed to be very passive-like and are supposed to have "up-front dynamics", but I've seen reviews that say they're compressed and don't have the dynamics you'd expect
> Classics don't have any info other than V1 on the neck has "the dynamics and output level you want."
> V2 on the Tosin's are described as having "Passive pickup perfection", but I've seen reviews that say they're too compressed, which I would expect, if they're intended to have a mode optimized for tapping.
> I haven't been able to find anything regarding dynamics/compressiveness of the Javier Reyes set.


The classics, keith merrow, and javier reyes sets would be the least compressed of the fishman stuff that I've heard.


----------



## Orfonso

ElRay said:


> Which of the Fluences available in 7-string are the least compressed? Unfortunately, the descriptions are "imprecise".
> 
> A lot of the descriptions of the Moderns say they're "less compressed" than EMGs. That still implies they're compressed
> The Merrow's are supposed to be very passive-like and are supposed to have "up-front dynamics", but I've seen reviews that say they're compressed and don't have the dynamics you'd expect
> Classics don't have any info other than V1 on the neck has "the dynamics and output level you want."
> V2 on the Tosin's are described as having "Passive pickup perfection", but I've seen reviews that say they're too compressed, which I would expect, if they're intended to have a mode optimized for tapping.
> I haven't been able to find anything regarding dynamics/compressiveness of the Javier Reyes set.



So I was looking for the same from Fishman's and I'm not sure it's the right brand tbh. My Strandberg came with moderns which are definitely the best sounding active I've heard, but super compressed. I recently got the Javier Reyes set installed and while It's definitely better, I still find myself hearing too much compression.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I don't know how they managed to get EMG 707s to sound so much like trash but wow those things are ASS. 81s are damn good and hold their weight but these 707s suck donkey balls. Fizzy, scooped, kinda boomy, very little clarity especially on a low A. Very compressed and they have a kind of twang on the top end that sounds so scratchy I can't take it and you can't dial it out easily. The fact that they're lower output than my X2N in my bird and still aren't as tight, clear, or dynamic is just a shame. 

ew


----------



## Hoss632

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I don't know how they managed to get EMG 707s to sound so much like trash but wow those things are ASS. 81s are damn good and hold their weight but these 707s suck donkey balls. Fizzy, scooped, kinda boomy, very little clarity especially on a low A. Very compressed and they have a kind of twang on the top end that sounds so scratchy I can't take it and you can't dial it out easily. The fact that they're lower output than my X2N in my bird and still aren't as tight, clear, or dynamic is just a shame.
> 
> ew


100% agreed. For 7 string stuff from EMG I personally find the Super 77-7 set to sound amazing.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Hoss632 said:


> 100% agreed. For 7 string stuff from EMG I personally find the Super 77-7 set to sound amazing.




lol I didn't realize this was the wrong thread, I thought this was the emg thread whoooops

I'm not gonna swap pickups since I'm not keeping it long but I really wanna try the retro actives, if they would split I would've tried a pair but sadly they do not


----------



## Hoss632

TheBolivianSniper said:


> lol I didn't realize this was the wrong thread, I thought this was the emg thread whoooops
> 
> I'm not gonna swap pickups since I'm not keeping it long but I really wanna try the retro actives, if they would split I would've tried a pair but sadly they do not


I agree I wish they had a coil split as well. But for a nice simple humbucker set emg's retroactives are the best thing they have going IMO.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I don't know how they managed to get EMG 707s to sound so much like trash but wow those things are ASS. 81s are damn good and hold their weight but these 707s suck donkey balls. Fizzy, scooped, kinda boomy, very little clarity especially on a low A. Very compressed and they have a kind of twang on the top end that sounds so scratchy I can't take it and you can't dial it out easily. The fact that they're lower output than my X2N in my bird and still aren't as tight, clear, or dynamic is just a shame.
> 
> ew



Nah. I love the 707 in my Wolbers 7 string. I swapped em out with Blackouts (too much gain) , 81-7 (too thin), Modern Ceramic (no bass) and I still went with my 707. It just gives me 90s Nevermore and Fear Factory tones instantly.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Just slapped the Townsends back into one of my guitars. Absolutely forgot how great they are. Probably one of my fav split tones because it's fairly raw. 
This has been asked a few times probably, but I wasn't to keen on the moderns, would the abasi set be a smarter choice? I'm trying to avoid that odd cocked sound the moderns tend to have (in some guitars more, in others less). I know they probably yank em in every regard of versatility, but i never heard them in absolute high gain situations. Anybody any experience?


----------



## Partario

ElRay said:


> Which of the Fluences available in 7-string are the least compressed? Unfortunately, the descriptions are "imprecise".
> 
> A lot of the descriptions of the Moderns say they're "less compressed" than EMGs. That still implies they're compressed
> The Merrow's are supposed to be very passive-like and are supposed to have "up-front dynamics", but I've seen reviews that say they're compressed and don't have the dynamics you'd expect
> Classics don't have any info other than V1 on the neck has "the dynamics and output level you want."
> V2 on the Tosin's are described as having "Passive pickup perfection", but I've seen reviews that say they're too compressed, which I would expect, if they're intended to have a mode optimized for tapping.
> I haven't been able to find anything regarding dynamics/compressiveness of the Javier Reyes set.



I have the Kieth Merrow set that came in my KM7 mkiii. They aren’t dynamic at all. It feels like no matter how I play, where I palm mute, and how hard I pick, they always sound the same. They are very “flat” sounding and not lively at all. I just pulled them out today and put in some dimarzio edges I had laying around, and holy shit they sound and feel so much better. I’ve played EMGs that I’ve liked, so it’s not an active vs passive thing. If I had to say something good about them, they play great through amp sims and don’t really need EQ’d. Sounds great in the mix. They sound and feel pretty awful out of my 6505+ though.


----------



## ElRay

Orfonso said:


> ... moderns which are definitely the best sounding active I've heard, but super compressed. I recently got the Javier Reyes set installed and while It's definitely better, I still find myself hearing too much compression.





Patrick R Hearn said:


> I have the Kieth Merrow set that came in my KM7 mkiii. They aren’t dynamic at all. It feels like no matter how I play, where I palm mute, and how hard I pick, they always sound the same...


Thanks guys! That's what I was afraid of. My assumption is that the Abasi's are just as compressed, if not more, because they're supposed to be great for tapping. 

Anybody got a set of Classics they can test? Can you play very quiet, increase volume to that "edge of break-up" point and then play harder to push it over the edge? Without messing with the volume control, of course.


----------



## Partario

ElRay said:


> Thanks guys! That's what I was afraid of. My assumption is that the Abasi's are just as compressed, if not more, because they're supposed to be great for tapping.
> 
> Anybody got a set of Classics they can test? Can you play very quiet, increase volume to that "edge of break-up" point and then play harder to push it over the edge? Without messing with the volume control, of course.



Not sure how well known this is, but the KM set has a Classic neck. Only the bridge is different. 

In my experience the neck pickup felt and sounded just like the KM bridge but with less treble. It didn’t have that “tubular” wide open sound that my other passive necks have. I know people like them, but this is just my 2 cents as someone who plays passives and wanted to try actives. Good luck on your search!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Hoss632 said:


> The classics, keith merrow, and javier reyes sets would be the least compressed of the fishman stuff that I've heard.



^ This! IME, the JR set was the least compressed, if it was a tad brighter, it would have been perfect. Tone-wise, it was kind of the opposite of the Classics lol.



Patrick R Hearn said:


> Not sure how well known this is, but the KM set has a Classic neck. Only the bridge is different.
> 
> In my experience the neck pickup felt and sounded just like the KM bridge but with less treble. It didn’t have that “tubular” wide open sound that my other passive necks have. I know people like them, but this is just my 2 cents as someone who plays passives and wanted to try actives. Good luck on your search!



IMHO, I don't think I can ever confuse a Fishman Fluence w/ a passive if I'm playing. Sound-wise, if I'm just listening, specially with distortion or reverb/fx, they are very close, very hard to distinguish.

My favorite neck tone is whatever comes out of a passive Alnico 2 , followed by Tosin's neck voice 2 (iirc, the warmer one). The Juggernaught neck I recently got in the Aristides H/08 is not too shabby either.


----------



## c7spheres

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I don't know how they managed to get EMG 707s to sound so much like trash but wow those things are ASS. 81s are damn good and hold their weight but these 707s suck donkey balls. Fizzy, scooped, kinda boomy, very little clarity especially on a low A. Very compressed and they have a kind of twang on the top end that sounds so scratchy I can't take it and you can't dial it out easily. The fact that they're lower output than my X2N in my bird and still aren't as tight, clear, or dynamic is just a shame.
> 
> ew


 You sure something's not wrong with your 707's? I love my 707's. I just lower them really low and they balance out well. Maybe they don't agree your gear or guitar or something.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

c7spheres said:


> You sure something's not wrong with your 707's? I love my 707's. I just lower them really low and they balance out well. Maybe they don't agree your gear or guitar or something.



I mean that guitar is gone, it just didn't like my setup. It was comfy but my dream guitar popped up and away the 7 went. I got them dialed in eventually and it did take some time since the plugins I use are pretty bassy and kinda fizzy (Herbert, VH4) since my guitars are full of mids and need some treble bite. EQing out the boom was a little hard and that ugly twang never went away but I ended up getting some better clarity and less scoop after working with them. Still would've been ditched had I kept the guitar.


----------



## Bender.folder

Any ideas for a gibson explorer ? All mahogany rosewood fingerboard drop c# tremonti trivium played on it mostly.

Had moderns 7 on a full mahogany schecter was not blown away. Was not this clear sounding and lacked low end .


----------



## elkoki

Bender.folder said:


> Any ideas for a gibson explorer ? All mahogany rosewood fingerboard drop c# tremonti trivium played on it mostly.
> 
> Had moderns 7 on a full mahogany schecter was not blown away. Was not this clear sounding and lacked low end .



Will Adler set. They're thicker sounding than the moderns and do well with low and higher tunings.


----------



## cmpxchg

I want to try the -6db setting on my Moderns (I think I'd like the V1 vs V2 differences more that way), but the guitar I got them in didn't include the jumper. Anyone know a way to get one? Not sure if this is a standard size part or what. I'm not too keen on soldering a wire to the pickup when I might hate it and want to take it out immediately.


----------



## diagrammatiks

cmpxchg said:


> I want to try the -6db setting on my Moderns (I think I'd like the V1 vs V2 differences more that way), but the guitar I got them in didn't include the jumper. Anyone know a way to get one? Not sure if this is a standard size part or what. I'm not too keen on soldering a wire to the pickup when I might hate it and want to take it out immediately.



just wrap some wire.


----------



## lewis

cmpxchg said:


> I want to try the -6db setting on my Moderns (I think I'd like the V1 vs V2 differences more that way), but the guitar I got them in didn't include the jumper. Anyone know a way to get one? Not sure if this is a standard size part or what. I'm not too keen on soldering a wire to the pickup when I might hate it and want to take it out immediately.


Contact fishman. They sent me a bag of jumper clips for free.


----------



## LCW

I’ve disliked Fishman Moderns in another guitar (alder body/maple neck Soloist) but I played this LTD EC1000 today with the Moderns and holy hell! Liked the guitar so much (not just for the pickup tone) had to take it home with me . Just gotta remember not to leave my guitar cable plugged into it haha.


----------



## thorgan

Finally got the Javier Reyes 7 string set installed in my KXK, overall they sound awesome so it really is a shame that fishman kinda let me down in terms of quality control and customer support. Took me from May 13th to July 26th, almost 11 weeks, to get working pickups. Considering I bought these brand new and after taxes was in for over 400 CAD, It's pretty disappointing to get a faulty neck pickup from the factory and then have to wait 8 weeks for a replacement. Again the pickups sound great, and I had hopes of trying other fishman products (abasi set, koch tele and p90 set) in some of my other guitars, but for spending that kind of money I just can't abide the run around that this gave me, these were going into my main guitar so at every new development I was swapping and rewiring electronics as well as restringing in order to have it ready for the gigs I needed it on in the meantime. If you're going to order I'd urge you to at least order from a retailer that has multiples in stock and a good replacement policy. 

The pickups themselves sound great, I play a real variety of jazz, metal, and fingerstyle and I'm able to cover a ton of useable tones, they don't remind me at all of actives I've had in the past so I would say if you're looking for a set that resembles a traditional passive pickup but with that extra clarity and versatility look into these, the sound demos on youtube are quite accurate to what they sound like installed. Single coil tones are awesome and the voice 2 neck pickup is super valuable to me. I will say that I find the more gain I add the less difference I can hear between voice 1 and 2, especially on the bridge. I may need to sit with them a little more, but on clean sounds there is definitely a difference, just haven't found how to maximize it under heavy gain yet, not sure if other fluences are like that.


----------



## juka

thorgan said:


> Finally got the Javier Reyes 7 string set installed in my KXK, overall they sound awesome so it really is a shame that fishman kinda let me down in terms of quality control and customer support. Took me from May 13th to July 26th, almost 11 weeks, to get working pickups. Considering I bought these brand new and after taxes was in for over 400 CAD, It's pretty disappointing to get a faulty neck pickup from the factory and then have to wait 8 weeks for a replacement. Again the pickups sound great, and I had hopes of trying other fishman products (abasi set, koch tele and p90 set) in some of my other guitars, but for spending that kind of money I just can't abide the run around that this gave me, these were going into my main guitar so at every new development I was swapping and rewiring electronics as well as restringing in order to have it ready for the gigs I needed it on in the meantime. If you're going to order I'd urge you to at least order from a retailer that has multiples in stock and a good replacement policy.
> 
> The pickups themselves sound great, I play a real variety of jazz, metal, and fingerstyle and I'm able to cover a ton of useable tones, they don't remind me at all of actives I've had in the past so I would say if you're looking for a set that resembles a traditional passive pickup but with that extra clarity and versatility look into these, the sound demos on youtube are quite accurate to what they sound like installed. Single coil tones are awesome and the voice 2 neck pickup is super valuable to me. I will say that I find the more gain I add the less difference I can hear between voice 1 and 2, especially on the bridge. I may need to sit with them a little more, but on clean sounds there is definitely a difference, just haven't found how to maximize it under heavy gain yet, not sure if other fluences are like that.



Great to hear that you like the JR set as there are still not many reviews of these to be found online.

@Kensusiunearth: Really don't know what the problem with Fishman is all about. I mean they are a well established company and the Fluence pickups themselves are top notch, but quality control, support and supply are NOT!
- Bought my first Abasi set recently (my 6th Fluence set in total) and the blue-green-gray cable was missing the gray (thats' where all the magic of the Abasi set is happening),
- asked support for a 5way super switch wiring scheme for classics, but gary never came back to me,
- tried to buy a Zebra set for nearly a year, but distributor says Fishman doesn't deliver,
-...


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

In addition to the above, I feel that the development is anemic when compared to their popularity. Hardly any new sig models in the last 2 years, where is the new revision of the moderns with single coil voice, what about slanted pickups, what about more bass pickups in different formats, J, P/J, etc.? I'm really surprised not too many here commenting on Keith Merrow discontinuing his Fluence model, anyone knows what happened?


----------



## slavboi_delight

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> In addition to the above, I feel that the development is anemic when compared to their popularity. Hardly any new sig models in the last 2 years, where is the new revision of the moderns with single coil voice, what about slanted pickups, what about more bass pickups in different formats, J, P/J, etc.? I'm really surprised not too many here commenting on Keith Merrow discontinuing his Fluence model, anyone knows what happened?



Did Merrow jump ship back to Duncan? I ditched Fishman a few months ago because they did not want to replace one of my classic models which came already shot when i ordered it. Tried to blame me for it or inaccurate operating as they called it.


----------



## IwantTacos

juka said:


> Great to hear that you like the JR set as there are still not many reviews of these to be found online.
> 
> @Kensusiunearth: Really don't know what the problem with Fishman is all about. I mean they are a well established company and the Fluence pickups themselves are top notch, but quality control, support and supply are NOT!
> - Bought my first Abasi set recently (my 6th Fluence set in total) and the blue-green-gray cable was missing the gray (thats' where all the magic of the Abasi set is happening),
> - asked support for a 5way super switch wiring scheme for classics, but gary never came back to me,
> - tried to buy a Zebra set for nearly a year, but distributor says Fishman doesn't deliver,
> -...



you have ken calling users idiots in this very thread. their cs engineers do not know or are not willing to actually disclose how any of their product's connection work in e-mails. 

tells you all you need to know about this company.



diagrammatiks. account hacked. don't use the same password and e-mail for literally everything. temporary sig until I can set a sig.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

@slavboi_delight He posted it on Instagram responding to Fluff's post about his new Fluence sig. Someone here mentioned it in another thread, here's a screenshot.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> @slavboi_delight He posted it on Instagram responding to Fluff's post about his new Fluence sig. Someone here mentioned it in another thread, here's a screenshot.
> View attachment 96856


Oh wow. That's way more loosely said than i anticipated. 
Plus: I can't wrap my head around it how Bruce get's a sig pickup. No hate or whatever but what the hell?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Keith also recently posted a picture w/ one of his KM-iii sigs w/ Duncans, what does that mean, ur guess is as good as mine.

*EDIT:* Apparently, Fishman also updated the Fluence site (whoopi-do), mainly cosmetic, KM model still there (so no clue what KM is saying?). Only substantial change is that they added wiring diagrams, nothing like SD, but not bad, here: https://www.fishman.com/support-technical-docs/#wiring


----------



## thorgan

slavboi_delight said:


> Did Merrow jump ship back to Duncan? I ditched Fishman a few months ago because they did not want to replace one of my classic models which came already shot when i ordered it. Tried to blame me for it or inaccurate operating as they called it.



Honestly had I not gone through a local shop with an owner I trust to represent me I'm worried this would have been even more of an ordeal like you had to deal with. I'm not trying to put anyone specifically from the company on blast here, I understand this is a big operation and stuff happens. But dead from the factory is pretty embarrassing for a company of Fishmans size, and then seemingly no urgency to replace a paid for faulty product starts to test the limits of my goodwill.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Keith also recently posted a picture w/ one of his KM-iii sigs w/ Duncans, what does that mean, ur guess is as good as mine.


Yeah i remember that post
It wouldn't surprise me though


----------



## slavboi_delight

thorgan said:


> Honestly had I not gone through a local shop with an owner I trust to represent me I'm worried this would have been even more of an ordeal like you had to deal with. I'm not trying to put anyone specifically from the company on blast here, I understand this is a big operation and stuff happens. But dead from the factory is pretty embarrassing for a company of Fishmans size, and then seemingly no urgency to replace a paid for faulty product starts to test the limits of my goodwill.


100%
As i read on here many people had that same problem
Even my guitar tech who wanted to distribute for fishman had pretty bitter things to report about them unfortunately


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> @slavboi_delight He posted it on Instagram responding to Fluff's post about his new Fluence sig. Someone here mentioned it in another thread, here's a screenshot.
> View attachment 96856



That was me, troublemaker that I am ;-)

Keith and Ken both refused to comment so far, it still is on Fishman's and Schecter's webpage, but sometimes it is more about what people do NOT say. Was pretty obvious in Ken's last "Fishman live" when in an answer to a user's request he did NOT mention the KM set in a situation where he had recommended the KM set a thousand times before.


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> In addition to the above, I feel that the development is anemic when compared to their popularity. Hardly any new sig models in the last 2 years, where is the new revision of the moderns with single coil voice, what about slanted pickups, what about more bass pickups in different formats, J, P/J, etc.? I'm really surprised not too many here commenting on Keith Merrow discontinuing his Fluence model, anyone knows what happened?



Well they "sort of" have a revision to the Moderns, it's called Prophesy and exclusive to Epiphone. Which reinforces my point in a way. Fishman is in the business for too long to not knowing that preferring OEMs over aftermarket customers won't work on the long run. Ask EMG ;-)

They really seem to have a way in frustrating their sig artists. If you follow Thomas McRocklin you probably know how super enthusiastic he was with his purple sig prototype set in the beginning and meanwhile you better NOT ask him about the release date anymore.

Don't get me wrong I still love my Fluence sets and they still are the best pups I have found in over 30 years of guitar playing. It really hurts to see them having such a great technology in their hands and not getting their shit together :-(


----------



## Marv Attaxx

juka said:


> Great to hear that you like the JR set as there are still not many reviews of these to be found online.
> 
> @Kensusiunearth: Really don't know what the problem with Fishman is all about. I mean they are a well established company and the Fluence pickups themselves are top notch, but quality control, support and supply are NOT!
> - Bought my first Abasi set recently (my 6th Fluence set in total) and the blue-green-gray cable was missing the gray (thats' where all the magic of the Abasi set is happening),
> - asked support for a 5way super switch wiring scheme for classics, but gary never came back to me,
> - tried to buy a Zebra set for nearly a year, but distributor says Fishman doesn't deliver,
> -...


I also inquired about support for a wiring scheme, nothing. In the meanwhile you contact Dimarzio and chances are that Steve or even Larry himself sends you specific wiring diagrams for your usecase 
In the end my tech figuered out how to wire my Abasis correctly so all good.


----------



## LCW

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> In addition to the above, I feel that the development is anemic when compared to their popularity. Hardly any new sig models in the last 2 years, where is the new revision of the moderns with single coil voice, what about slanted pickups, what about more bass pickups in different formats, J, P/J, etc.? I'm really surprised not too many here commenting on Keith Merrow discontinuing his Fluence model, anyone knows what happened?



Think Keith is going back to Seymour Duncan?


----------



## LCW

juka said:


> That was me, troublemaker that I am ;-)
> 
> Keith and Ken both refused to comment so far, it still is on Fishman's and Schecter's webpage, but sometimes it is more about what people do NOT say. Was pretty obvious in Ken's last "Fishman live" when in an answer to a user's request he did NOT mention the KM set in a situation where he had recommended the KM set a thousand times before.



OK - so what would you go with for actives if moving away from Fishman Moderns? EMG 81? SD Blackouts? SD Livewires? Etc. ?


----------



## LCW

juka said:


> Well they "sort of" have a revision to the Moderns, it's called Prophesy and exclusive to Epiphone. Which reinforces my point in a way. Fishman is in the business for too long to not knowing that preferring OEMs over aftermarket customers won't work on the long run. Ask EMG ;-)
> 
> They really seem to have a way in frustrating their sig artists. If you follow Thomas McRocklin you probably know how super enthusiastic he was with his purple sig prototype set in the beginning and meanwhile you better NOT ask him about the release date anymore.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I still love my Fluence sets and they still are the best pups I have found in over 30 years of guitar playing. It really hurts to see them having such a great technology in their hands and not getting their shit together :-(



Wasn't Matt Heafy going to get a signature set of Fishmans? No sign of them on their site. He did talk about them at some point on his Youtube channel. Wonder if that also fell apart.


----------



## bwh0005

LCW said:


> Wasn't Matt Heafy going to get a signature set of Fishmans? No sign of them on their site. He did talk about them at some point on his Youtube channel. Wonder if that also fell apart.


 I think Matt said they wouldn’t come out till 2022, when his new epiphones come out.


----------



## LCW

bwh0005 said:


> I think Matt said they wouldn’t come out till 2022, when his new epiphones come out.



Ah ok - didn't think those were that far out. But not surprised with all the supply chain issues.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Pretty sure the Merrow set is gonna be pulled down around NAMM time when they update the site with new models. They've had like... 4 or 5 sig models down the pipeline apparently that have been in the works.  Hell Richard Kruspe had that sig set he's been talking about since 2018?


----------



## LCW

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty sure the Merrow set is gonna be pulled down around NAMM time when they update the site with new models. They've had like... 4 or 5 sig models down the pipeline apparently that have been in the works.  Hell Richard Kruspe had that sig set he's been talking about since 2018?



Vaporware


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty sure the Merrow set is gonna be pulled down around NAMM time when they update the site with new models. They've had like... 4 or 5 sig models down the pipeline apparently that have been in the works.  Hell Richard Kruspe had that sig set he's been talking about since 2018?



I hope u're right, but the site just got updated, they added wiring schemes, but KM set still there.


----------



## LCW

Haven’t watched yet but ironically this streamed and posted a couple hours ago…


----------



## juka

LCW said:


> OK - so what would you go with for actives if moving away from Fishman Moderns? EMG 81? SD Blackouts? SD Livewires? Etc. ?



Before I completely moved to over to Fishman I really liked the EMG 57/66 line, but they were inconsistent as hell. Had like 5-6 sets in total and each one sounded different.


----------



## juka

LCW said:


> Wasn't Matt Heafy going to get a signature set of Fishmans? No sign of them on their site. He did talk about them at some point on his Youtube channel. Wonder if that also fell apart.



Matt Heavy's "signature set" will be a limited edition modern set with a golden "swoosh" or whatever they call this line on their pickup housing. Just different looks, same sound. Matt and Ken both confirmed this several times on their "lives"


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Pretty sure the Merrow set is gonna be pulled down around NAMM time when they update the site with new models. They've had like... 4 or 5 sig models down the pipeline apparently that have been in the works.  Hell Richard Kruspe had that sig set he's been talking about since 2018?


Similar to the Matt Heavy set they will be just Moderns with a different look:
MH black with golden stripe,
RK red plastic covers.

Damn, I've def watched too many of Ken's "lives" ;-)


----------



## juka

LCW said:


> Haven’t watched yet but ironically this streamed and posted a couple hours ago…




Does it on a weekly basis for quite sometime already. Has one or two bits of new info every time besides lots of repetitive stuff.
Have def watched too many of them recently ;-)


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

juka said:


> Well they "sort of" have a revision to the Moderns, it's called Prophesy and exclusive to Epiphone. Which reinforces my point in a way. Fishman is in the business for too long to not knowing that preferring OEMs over aftermarket customers won't work on the long run. Ask EMG ;-)
> 
> They really seem to have a way in frustrating their sig artists. If you follow Thomas McRocklin you probably know how super enthusiastic he was with his purple sig prototype set in the beginning and meanwhile you better NOT ask him about the release date anymore.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I still love my Fluence sets and they still are the best pups I have found in over 30 years of guitar playing. It really hurts to see them having such a great technology in their hands and not getting their shit together :-(



I remember McRocklin mentioning it a while back, I hope they don't screw this one up. There was a hilarious video from last NAMM (before pandemic) where Stephen Carpenter was insisting he would very much like to revise the voicing of his sig, only to be shut down almost immediately by Ken next to him.

I still do love all the fluences I have and I hate to extrapolate on such little info, but could this behavior (lack of further innovation) be explained by the fact they merely bought the technology and had nothing to do with its development? So, we might be witnessing what I like to refer to as "grocery shop" financial culture at play here? By that I mean an extremely conservative, risk-averse, revenue/profit-oriented mindset where innovation is sprinkled every once in a blue moon to keep things afloat if needed.

We know, mainly from what Keith Merrow described here (maybe even on this same thread), that the Fishman Fluence team has a pickup simulation tool/technology. During the past few years, they could have invested in taking it online, opening up a custom line where a user like myself could upload a DI from one of my guitars with say a Fishman Modern in it, use the online tool to tweak the voicings, and I could then export the final voicings to a pickup that gets printed on-demand. I know, I'll keep dreaming.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I still do love all the fluences I have and I hate to extrapolate on such little info, but could this behavior (lack of further innovation) be explained by the fact they merely bought the technology and had nothing to do with its development? So, we might be witnessing what I like to refer to as "grocery shop" financial culture at play here? By that I mean an extremely conservative, risk-averse, revenue/profit-oriented mindset where innovation is sprinkled every once in a blue moon to keep things afloat if needed.



Unless he left within the passed year, the guy who developed them (Frank Falbo) works with them. I know he's focused on his own guitar company atm though


----------



## LCW

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Unless he left within the passed year, the guy who developed them (Frank Falbo) works with them. I know he's focused on his own guitar company atm though



Isn't Frank Falbo an ex-Seymour Duncan employee? Maybe even manager or director?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

LCW said:


> Isn't Frank Falbo an ex-Seymour Duncan employee? Maybe even manager or director?



VP of production development at SD between '07 - '12. He joined Fishman in '15 - '16?

https://www.premierguitar.com/u/frank_falbo


----------



## hensh!n

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I still do love all the fluences I have and I hate to extrapolate on such little info, but could this behavior (lack of further innovation) be explained by the fact they merely bought the technology and had nothing to do with its development? So, we might be witnessing what I like to refer to as "grocery shop" financial culture at play here? By that I mean an extremely conservative, risk-averse, revenue/profit-oriented mindset where innovation is sprinkled every once in a blue moon to keep things afloat if needed.
> 
> We know, mainly from what Keith Merrow described here (maybe even on this same thread), that the Fishman Fluence team has a pickup simulation tool/technology. During the past few years, they could have invested in taking it online, opening up a custom line where a user like myself could upload a DI from one of my guitars with say a Fishman Modern in it, use the online tool to tweak the voicings, and I could then export the final voicings to a pickup that gets printed on-demand. I know, I'll keep dreaming.



This is my biggest problem with the brand. Their focus appears to be going after established names in the business and sell sets based off of the name and brand recognition alone. Instead, they could be using their incredibly innovative technology to innovate further in the market by developing pickup sets that truly could not exist even a decade before. I realize some of these features exist in signature sets, but I've gone down that road and ended up back where I started with a good passive set.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I would shell out for a fluence custom set since I demand so much versatility from my guitars and my personal taste in tone is a lot different than most things out there. The 2 voicings alongside a single coil is just what I want but moderns have to be manually split and I'm not sure the classics are what I want. 

I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the high end. Voice 3 would be a nice snappy tele sort of single coil. 

No one does anything that solves my want for a punchy, chunky sound and a cutting mix ready tone all at once, you just can't do it. The closest I get is the EMG 57 but that's still smooth on the high end. The X2N is fizzy and super high powered but not quite punchy enough. I'm hoping the Super 3 gets brutal while still being controlled enough and isn't too too smooth. Still would have to solve the problem of that split tone too. 

I think if fishman would charge enough for the service like the Duncan custom shop they'd be really winning.


----------



## juka

TheBolivianSniper said:


> ...
> I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the high end. Voice 3 would be a nice snappy tele sort of single coil.
> ...



Somebody might describe their Fluence Prophesy line exactly like this, but they are made exclusively for Epiphone.

As said before focusing mainly on OEM and neglecting after market sales has proven to be disastrous for other pickup manufacturer already. Don't know why Fishman think they have to make the same mistake and not learn from others


----------



## Asphyxia

Question for you guys. I have a Schecter with Moderns in it. Push Pull volume is the voice one and two. Push pull tone is single coil or tap, not sure. 
Would the fishman classic directly swap out wired the same?


----------



## slavboi_delight

Asphyxia said:


> Question for you guys. I have a Schecter with Moderns in it. Push Pull volume is the voice one and two. Push pull tone is single coil or tap, not sure.
> Would the fishman classic directly swap out wired the same?


Probably not 
Moderns have solder pads and are literally a split coil
The classics, if the 3.5v i think, have a single coil voicing acquired through the solderless connection


----------



## hensh!n

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I would shell out for a fluence custom set since I demand so much versatility from my guitars and my personal taste in tone is a lot different than most things out there. The 2 voicings alongside a single coil is just what I want but moderns have to be manually split and I'm not sure the classics are what I want.
> 
> I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the high end. Voice 3 would be a nice snappy tele sort of single coil.
> 
> I think if fishman would charge enough for the service like the Duncan custom shop they'd be really winning.



I've been saying this for a while now. Give me V2 of the Modern (or Abasi) and V1 of the Classics with hot noiseless single, and I'd be as happy as a clam.


----------



## lewis

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I would shell out for a fluence custom set since I demand so much versatility from my guitars and my personal taste in tone is a lot different than most things out there. The 2 voicings alongside a single coil is just what I want but moderns have to be manually split and I'm not sure the classics are what I want.
> 
> I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the high end. Voice 3 would be a nice snappy tele sort of single coil.
> 
> No one does anything that solves my want for a punchy, chunky sound and a cutting mix ready tone all at once, you just can't do it. The closest I get is the EMG 57 but that's still smooth on the high end. The X2N is fizzy and super high powered but not quite punchy enough. I'm hoping the Super 3 gets brutal while still being controlled enough and isn't too too smooth. Still would have to solve the problem of that split tone too.
> 
> I think if fishman would charge enough for the service like the Duncan custom shop they'd be really winning.



Add an EMG RPC knob to that 57 and you will get way closer to your target sound.


----------



## juka

hensh!n said:


> I've been saying this for a while now. Give me V2 of the Modern (or Abasi) and V1 of the Classics with hot noiseless single, and I'd be as happy as a clam.



As people obviously don't understand what the hell I'm blabbering about the whole time:
https://www.epiphone.com/Guitars/Collection/Prophecy
_"...With custom-voiced Fishman® Fluence™ pickups that deliver three distinct tones - a warm "Patent Applied For" vintage humbucker, hot modern humbucker, and a shimmering hum-free single-coil..."_

I'm strictly a 7string guy and have no affiliation with any company, I just keep mentioning these because they seem to be the perfect combination for me, too, and I don't understand why this much requested evolution of the Moderns is kept to OEM exclusively.


----------



## LCW

Maybe try emailing them or Ken Susi with your suggestion.


----------



## bjjman

Having installed these a few weeks ago, I figured I'd share my experience with the Fishman strat single width pickups as there's not too much info online.

I'm quite happy with the Open Core Classics that came in my EC-1000, so I decided to switch things up with my strat. It had very nice tone already but I wanted to go noiseless and the two voicings appealed seeing as I only have two single coil guitars.

I bought these as a prewired pickguard, figuring it would make everything easier. Boy was I proven wrong. 

All the additional wiring for the voices, etc and the way things had been wired point to point with no consideration for having to fit in strat style routes meant that it didn't fit in the pickup/electronics cavity of my Warmoth body. I don't know for sure but I'm almost certain the same issues would exist for Fender strats which are obviously the main target for these kits. In order to get them to fit, I had to route a wider pathway between the bridge PU and electronics cavities. It's probable that if I rewired a lot of it with longer wires for the connections that it would have fit but I wasn't certain. I've not seen anyone raising this issue online for the strats (someone had similar complaints about the tele set) so maybe on the day they made mine they were running out of wiring and just said not to use a single mm more than necessary to connect bits and ^%&# whoever's going to have to install them.

I also installed the rechargeable battery pack. The lead lengths on these are also short but nowhere near as ridiculous as the pick guard. As long as you can route it fairly directly it should be fine.

While installing, I removed the shielding from the cavity as I needed every millimetre of room I could get. This was a bit of a gamble but these pickups are dead quiet, even with an unshielded cavity.

On to the sounds and where things get better. The vintage voicing is very much what you'd hope for. The strat quack is certainly on tap. Sweet clean tones are easy to obtain and it works with vintage style crunch nicely. 

Switching to the hot Texas voicing yields a bump in output, along with the shift in freq response. The quack so present in the vintage pretty much disappears here. Neck pickup is great for bluesy soloing. The bridge does some great vintage rhythm tones. I even like it for some higher gain traditional metal rhythms, something I usually hate with singles. Iron Maiden, Yngwie and Stevie are all viable here.

Despite being actives, these pickups aren't overly compressed on either voicing. I would say they maybe lack a tiny bit of dynamics compared with the best traditional singles but this is splitting hairs. You can certainly be quite expressive with pick attack on these.

With hindsight I would still chose these pickups for my Strat. I would definitely not go for the prewired pickguard though. Given all the hassles it created, I would have been best just to do the wiring myself.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

How do the voices of the Single Widths compare to the Voice 3 single on the Open Core Classics in your opinion?


----------



## bjjman

Kyle Jordan said:


> How do the voices of the Single Widths compare to the Voice 3 single on the Open Core Classics in your opinion?


I've never really run them back to back with the same amp models, etc. That said, the V3 on the Classics doesn't sound very Strat-like to me in this guitar. It's probably more a function of the guitar, rather than the pickups though. 

I do like the V3 tone in the Eclipse, it is a lot woodier than a normal strat tone. All three (bridge, neck, both) options are quite usable and make for some tonal options I don't have present in other guitars. Neck is great for, but not limited to, jazz and blues tones. Bridge sounds really nice through vintage style combo amps for overdriven rhythm. 

It sounds like I imagine a strat pickup in a Les Paul would. I guess that means they'd be close to the strat sound in a guitar that matches - 25.5 scale, bolt on, etc but I don't know for sure.


----------



## wDeniedPyro

Hello guys,
so I've tried to install the Fushman Fluence Tosin Abasi signature on a schecter damien elite 8 with a 3 way circular switch and 1 push pull volume for voice 1,2 and 1 push pull tone for split coil (voice 3).
In the diagrams made by fishman fluence, the NCO and SCO are not used, but they are really important for me because if i activate voice 3 on the middle position, I activate the outer coils instead of the inner ones. Is there a way to wire the NCO and SCO so that when I activate the voice 3 mode on the middle position, I get the inner coils of the bridge and the neck pickup? If so, how please!
My guitar wiring is the exact same one as the 3 way rev2 tosin abasi signature diagram provided by Fishman.


----------



## Mura

wDeniedPyro said:


> Hello guys,
> so I've tried to install the Fushman Fluence Tosin Abasi signature on a schecter damien elite 8 with a 3 way circular switch and 1 push pull volume for voice 1,2 and 1 push pull tone for split coil (voice 3).
> In the diagrams made by fishman fluence, the NCO and SCO are not used, but they are really important for me because if i activate voice 3 on the middle position, I activate the outer coils instead of the inner ones. Is there a way to wire the NCO and SCO so that when I activate the voice 3 mode on the middle position, I get the inner coils of the bridge and the neck pickup? If so, how please!
> My guitar wiring is the exact same one as the 3 way rev2 tosin abasi signature diagram provided by Fishman.



It is possible if you can replace the toggle switch. (Although it may be a little different from your wishes.)

https://www.freewayswitch.com/schematics-toggle/

Switch between voice1 or 2 and voice3 with the 6-way circular switch (FREE-WAY switch3X3-05 Model).

Switch between voice1 and voice2 with push pull volume.

By connecting NCO and SCO with push pull tone, it is possible to switch between Bridge Outer Coil and Bridge & Neck Inner Coils when voice3-Bridge is selected.

This is the wiring method for my guitar, but of course the fishman site doesn't describe the wiring method for the 6-way switch, so I think it will be a very difficult task.
I consulted with a local technician and proceeded.


----------



## IwantTacos

wDeniedPyro said:


> Hello guys,
> so I've tried to install the Fushman Fluence Tosin Abasi signature on a schecter damien elite 8 with a 3 way circular switch and 1 push pull volume for voice 1,2 and 1 push pull tone for split coil (voice 3).
> In the diagrams made by fishman fluence, the NCO and SCO are not used, but they are really important for me because if i activate voice 3 on the middle position, I activate the outer coils instead of the inner ones. Is there a way to wire the NCO and SCO so that when I activate the voice 3 mode on the middle position, I get the inner coils of the bridge and the neck pickup? If so, how please!
> My guitar wiring is the exact same one as the 3 way rev2 tosin abasi signature diagram provided by Fishman.



NCO and SCO are really hard to do with a single push-pull because you need to switch hot wires and input wires as well. you will need a 4dpt mini switch to try and do it.


----------



## thorgan

So weird that that's the system on the abasis, on the reyes set it's just a solder bridge to ground that determines which coil is the single, can change it permanently easily or set it up to a switch no problem, seems like a better way I'm not sure why they wouldnt do it on all of them


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## Bender.folder

Installed a set of KSE's in my esp horizon nt2.

After having modern 7 that were not really my taste must say those KSE are other animals.
Each voicing is usable, distinct tone between both pickups and single coil on neck for clean with effect is convincing.
My horizon is pretty dark and thick sounding being mahogany body on those ones so the kse brings clarity and cut to the overall tone. Would not mount them in an ash or alder bodied or bright guitar though.

Curious about other combos and new sigs set. Got a solar Explorer instead my gibson looking to replace the passives; will see if I jump for another set.


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## elkoki

Bender.folder said:


> Installed a set of KSE's in my esp horizon nt2.
> 
> After having modern 7 that were not really my taste must say those KSE are other animals.
> Each voicing is usable, distinct tone between both pickups and single coil on neck for clean with effect is convincing.
> My horizon is pretty dark and thick sounding being mahogany body on those ones so the kse brings clarity and cut to the overall tone. Would not mount them in an ash or alder bodied or bright guitar though.
> 
> Curious about other combos and new sigs set. Got a solar Explorer instead my gibson looking to replace the passives; will see if I jump for another set.



The Will Adlers are my favorite metal pickup of the 4 Fluences I've tried.. the 4 being Moderns, Classics , KSE and Will Adler of course. 

Will's are tight but they're a little fatter and darker sounding without being muddy. They work well in almost all tunings.. The neck pickup is a classic neck which sounds smooth for leads. Only thing they really lack are a solid clean tone..


My experience with KSE pickups is they're tight as fuck....but I would only use them for down tuning. They're super bright with very little bass. I tried using them in standard tuning and they were so harsh sounding.. anything from drop C or lower works. These are literally perfect for the crazy drop #G , F , drop A whatever the fuck tunings people do. They're probably the tightess pickups I've ever played. Cleans are a nice option to have on them but the Classic cleans sound a bit better to me .. overall decent set but I kind of want to replace them


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## wDeniedPyro

IwantTacos said:


> NCO and SCO are really hard to do with a single push-pull because you need to switch hot wires and input wires as well. you will need a 4dpt mini switch to try and do it.


So basically its impossible to do it without drilling the guitar?


----------



## Bender.folder

Kse are Indeed bright and tight.
My horizon is really dark might be the darkest guitar I had. The stock jb in it was quite fat sounding.
Kse evened it quite well.

I might give the Adler a go. But the Solar is quite meaty and fat and wiring with evertune cavity might need some work. Hate wiring fishman pickups.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

The KsE bridge somehow makes the EMG 81 like it has plenty of low end.


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## elkoki

Bender.folder said:


> Kse are Indeed bright and tight.
> My horizon is really dark might be the darkest guitar I had. The stock jb in it was quite fat sounding.
> Kse evened it quite well.
> 
> I might give the Adler a go. But the Solar is quite meaty and fat and wiring with evertune cavity might need some work. Hate wiring fishman pickups.



Well I shouldn't really say they're fat sounding , they're tight pickups too, they are after all for Lamb of God and their sound is tight and fast. I really meant it more as they're slightly "fatter" sounding than the KSE set and moderns . They have a bit more low end and sound a bit darker, I assume they were voiced this way since LOG tune to drop D which is essentially standard tuning with 1 string tuned down. .. they're in no way fat like a Tone Zone or something like that. Just fuller sounding than some of the other Fluences


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## TheBolivianSniper

elkoki said:


> Well I shouldn't really say they're fat sounding , they're tight pickups too, they are after all for Lamb of God and their sound is tight and fast. I really meant it more as they're slightly "fatter" sounding than the KSE set and moderns . They have a bit more low end and sound a bit darker, I assume they were voiced this way since LOG tune to drop D which is essentially standard tuning with 1 string tuned down. .. they're in no way fat like a Tone Zone or something like that. Just fuller sounding than some of the other Fluences



I always heard they sound like sort of a cross between a JB and a distortion on one of the voices, kinda really hot and thick, I've been wanting to test them out so anything that really sticks out that they're good for or sound like for comparisons?


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## elkoki

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I always heard they sound like sort of a cross between a JB and a distortion on one of the voices, kinda really hot and thick, I've been wanting to test them out so anything that really sticks out that they're good for or sound like for comparisons?



I did this demo of the bridge pickup some time ago . They'd be good for thrash, metal core etc, they sound pretty good down tuned, farthest I ever went was C standard though . Not sure about djent styles since I don't tune that low.


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## sell2792

elkoki said:


> I did this demo of the bridge pickup some time ago . They'd be good for thrash, metal core etc, they sound pretty good down tuned, farthest I ever went was C standard though . Not sure about djent styles since I don't tune that low.




How do you think these or the KSE set would fare in a 25.5 JP-style guitar? I know the Moderns are the safe bet, but I'd like to experiment with something different.


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## elkoki

sell2792 said:


> How do you think these or the KSE set would fare in a 25.5 JP-style guitar? I know the Moderns are the safe bet, but I'd like to experiment with something different.



What style of music do you play? I've never owned a JP guitar, but from the looks of it you might have to widen your pickup slots for them to fit. Check the dimensions first. IMO the KSE set is better suited if you like to play heavy down tuned metal, from drop C and below. Killswitch Engage plays exclusively in drop C so they were voiced with that in mind, playing in standard tuning can sound a little harsh & bright. Adlers are a little more thrashy sounding, similar to the Duncan Distortion , they're good in just about any tuning. Don't know if i'd use them for classic rock though, for of a more classic sound i'd go with the Classic set

This guy gives a more thorough demo of the Adlers


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## sell2792

elkoki said:


> What style of music do you play? I've never owned a JP guitar, but from the looks of it you might have to widen your pickup slots for them to fit. Check the dimensions first. IMO the KSE set is better suited if you like to play heavy down tuned metal, from drop C and below. Killswitch Engage plays exclusively in drop C so they were voiced with that in mind, playing in standard tuning can sound a little harsh & bright. Adlers are a little more thrashy sounding, similar to the Duncan Distortion , they're good in just about any tuning. Don't know if i'd use them for classic rock though, for of a more classic sound i'd go with the Classic set



If I had to classify it, most my playing falls under deathcore-style. Almost exclusively rhythm playing. My JP15 is tuned to drop-C, and if I get this JPX-7 I've been eyeballing, it'll either be in drop-A or G.. So far I actually really like the Illuminators, especially over the CL/LF set. The X has Alpha/Omegas, so I'm super interested in playing with those first.

I've seen a handful of JPs with Fishmans, but no idea what the install process is like. That's something I'm going to have to reach out to get more information on.


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## elkoki

sell2792 said:


> If I had to classify it, most my playing falls under deathcore-style. Almost exclusively rhythm playing. My JP15 is tuned to drop-C, and if I get this JPX-7 I've been eyeballing, it'll either be in drop-A or G.. So far I actually really like the Illuminators, especially over the CL/LF set. The X has Alpha/Omegas, so I'm super interested in playing with those first.
> 
> I've seen a handful of JPs with Fishmans, but no idea what the install process is like. That's something I'm going to have to reach out to get more information on.



From what i've seen most guitars that come with direct mounted uncovered pickups won't fit most Fluences, EMGs or any other pickup with covers without modifying the routes. Shit if your routes are anything like the routes in Ibanez guitar then you can't just drop any pickup unless it's of the same brand.. you run into problems like the baseplates being too big, or the tabs shape being different etc..

Honestly KSE or Adlers would work well for the style you play. KSE's are tighter and cutting with less bass, Adler's are still tight but a little darker and with no third voice. Really depends on what you prefer


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## Hoss632

elkoki said:


> From what i've seen most guitars that come with direct mounted uncovered pickups won't fit most Fluences, EMGs or any other pickup with covers without modifying the routes. Shit if your routes are anything like the routes in Ibanez guitar then you can't just drop any pickup unless it's of the same brand.. you run into problems like the baseplates being too big, or the tabs shape being different etc..
> 
> Honestly KSE or Adlers would work well for the style you play. KSE's are tighter and cutting with less bass, Adler's are still tight but a little darker and with no third voice. Really depends on what you prefer


Agreed with your thoughts on the tones, though for me the Adlers blow the KSE set out of the water. Probably my 2nd fav set behind the classics.


----------



## Audiowonderland

I am learning the ropes of the Fluence moderns that came in my Schecter C1 Elite. Ceramic bridge / Alnico Neck. Not a metal player but the clarity fits my playing very well. I thought the push/pull volume knob switched between voices on the neck pickup and the tone did the same on the bridge pickup. I am seeing various opinions on this. It looks like the Moderns can do a split, and its been suggested that the C1 Elite does this but that is not what I am hearing. Can anyone confirm how these are wired in that guitar?


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## elkoki

Hoss632 said:


> Agreed with your thoughts on the tones, though for me the Adlers blow the KSE set out of the water. Probably my 2nd fav set behind the classics.


Yea classics and Adlers are my top 2 so far. The Kse bridge pickup is voiced a little crazy, so much treble and little bass


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## Hoss632

elkoki said:


> Yea classics and Adlers are my top 2 so far. The Kse bridge pickup is voiced a little crazy, so much treble and little bass


I agree. I didn't realize how much low end they took out until I heard them compared side by side with all the other fluence sets. I'm still curious to hear a 6 string set of the Javier Reyes pick ups. So far all the videos I've found are on 7 or 8 string guitars.


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## elkoki

Audiowonderland said:


> I am learning the ropes of the Fluence moderns that came in my Schecter C1 Elite. Ceramic bridge / Alnico Neck. Not a metal player but the clarity fits my playing very well. I thought the push/pull volume knob switched between voices on the neck pickup and the tone did the same on the bridge pickup. I am seeing various opinions on this. It looks like the Moderns can do a split, and its been suggested that the C1 Elite does this but that is not what I am hearing. Can anyone confirm how these are wired in that guitar?



I had the 7 string version of that guitar, the C7 SLS elite. The guitar came wired with no coil splitting. All the pots did was access the second voice. Each pickup was assigned to a pot, so if the tone pot was for the bridge , pulling it up accessed the second voice only for the bridge. Moderns CAN be wired to coil split but to do that you have to solder wires to the pads on the back of the pickup. They're not like the Classics or KSE sets that come standard with 3 voices. Moderns technically only have 2 voices with the option to split coils.


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## ringmaster555

I have both the Schecter SLS Elite 7 multiscale and the KM-7 III with Fluence moderns and Keith Merrow pickups respectively, and the midrange resonances in the ~500-700KHz range are way too overpowering in both guitars, at least for my tastes; it’s practically all I hear. At first, I thought it was primarily due to the guitars’ bodies (they’re swamp ash with maple necks), but I’m thinking the pickups are playing a bigger role.

Example (just the Fortin Nameless amp with no pedals):

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/483757276231106581/874817956402585670/23547245.wav

Tried different amp sims, cabs, and EQing DI to no avail.

I’m going to swap them with SD Black Winters. From videos I’ve heard, the winters don’t have such honky mids. Hopefully I won’t experience the same issue.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Is it possible to wire a set of Abasi 7s to use a single push/ pull to default to the active voice and then seitch voice 3 when the pot is pulled? Just got a new 7 with only a volume knob and also don't care for the passive voice on the fluences, but would love access to the spanky single coil tone on the abasis.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Is it possible to wire a set of Abasi 7s to use a single push/ pull to default to the active voice and then seitch voice 3 when the pot is pulled? Just got a new 7 with only a volume knob and also don't care for the passive voice on the fluences, but would love access to the spanky single coil tone on the abasis.



Aren't they active by default? If so, don't even connect the Voice 2 wire. Connect the Single Coil wire where you'd install the voicing switch on the push-pull pot.


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## elkoki

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Is it possible to wire a set of Abasi 7s to use a single push/ pull to default to the active voice and then seitch voice 3 when the pot is pulled? Just got a new 7 with only a volume knob and also don't care for the passive voice on the fluences, but would love access to the spanky single coil tone on the abasis.



How you liking the Abasi's? I want to replace my KSE set with them


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## Chris Bowsman

elkoki said:


> How you liking the Abasi's? I want to replace my KSE set with them



I have the Tosin pickups in my 8 string. Every different pickup setting (8 total as it's wired) is great, but I'm not 100% happy with the bridge for the thrash/death metal based rhythm tone I like. The upper mids are a little too pronounced.

I'm in the middle of putting a Javier set in my Ibanez RG 7 string mutt. Waiting on a switch to arrive, so I put the bridge pickup in with a volume control. I think I like it better than the Tosin for that chunky metal tone, but I'll say more once I get the switch. My plan is a 4 way Tele switch, so it goes:

Bridge
Bridge/neck parallel
Neck
Bridge/neck series

Pulling the volume knob gives voice 2, pulling the tone voice 3. I'm using the 4 way specifically to get both pickups split in series. My Tele and my PRS CE24 both have this sound, and it's awesome. On the Tele with single coils, it's a massive, Les Paul sound, and on the PRS is sounds like a virtual 3rd humbucker.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Fluence question:

How's the Fishman Modern 8 bridge vs the Abasi bridge? The *only* sound I'm not thrilled with in my Tosin-loaded 8 is the metal rhythm tone. I'm not anti-djent at all, but the tone I want is more based on the classic thrash/death metal EMG 81 sound. Does the Modern have less of that wah-filter squawk than the Abasi? 

What I'm finding with the Tosins is if I get the low F# sounding good, everything in the "normal" guitar range is honk-city. I didn't wire the guitar, so I'm not positive which is voice 1 or 2, but I can almost get the tone I want with the bassier voice (I think passive), but then the other sounds like I have a mid boost and a wah turned on. Probably awesome for djent, but not for thrash/death.


----------



## IwantTacos

Chris Bowsman said:


> Fluence question:
> 
> How's the Fishman Modern 8 bridge vs the Abasi bridge? The *only* sound I'm not thrilled with in my Tosin-loaded 8 is the metal rhythm tone. I'm not anti-djent at all, but the tone I want is more based on the classic thrash/death metal EMG 81 sound. Does the Modern have less of that wah-filter squawk than the Abasi?
> 
> What I'm finding with the Tosins is if I get the low F# sounding good, everything in the "normal" guitar range is honk-city. I didn't wire the guitar, so I'm not positive which is voice 1 or 2, but I can almost get the tone I want with the bassier voice (I think passive), but then the other sounds like I have a mid boost and a wah turned on. Probably awesome for djent, but not for thrash/death.



the moderns are even worse in their active voice.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

IwantTacos said:


> the moderns are even worse in their active voice.



Well shit, that’s not what I wanted to hear. Guess I’m gonna get crafty with the 31 band EQ and hope for the best. Or get an EMG 81.


----------



## wildchild

I want to install Fishman Fluence Modern 7 pickups in my Ibanez RG752. 
I couldn't see open cover versions on their website. Do the soap bar style ones fit?
Thanks


----------



## Chris Bowsman

wildchild said:


> I want to install Fishman Fluence Modern 7 pickups in my Ibanez RG752.
> I couldn't see open cover versions on their website. Do the soap bar style ones fit?
> Thanks



Probably not without routing.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chris Bowsman said:


> Probably not without routing.



Correct. The pickups are a bit wider and the corners are a lot more squared. 
Hell they weren't even a direct drop in replacement in my guitars with pickup rings. 
Don't get the "passive" sized Modern 7 strings thinking they're a drop in replacement for passive guitars


----------



## Chris Bowsman

I think I’m gonna try the Abasi neck in the bridge and see if that’s closer to what I want. If so, maybe the Modern Alnico would work.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Chris Bowsman said:


> I think I’m gonna try the Abasi neck in the bridge and see if that’s closer to what I want. If so, maybe the Modern Alnico would work.



Initial impression: strings 1-7 sound pretty good with the neck in the bridge spot. The low F# feels really underpowered. The bridge pickup in the neck isn't bad, and the split coils in both positions sound a little less hifi. But, it's an 8 string, so a wimpy F# is kind of a deal breaker all around. Guess I'm switching them back and getting to work with the EQ.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Chris Bowsman said:


> Well shit, that’s not what I wanted to hear. Guess I’m gonna get crafty with the 31 band EQ and hope for the best. Or get an EMG 81.



wait didn't see it was an 8 nvm


----------



## Chris Bowsman

TheBolivianSniper said:


> wait didn't see it was an 8 nvm



Right now, I have a PRS with a Norton, JP6 with a Crunch Lab, Legator with a GFS Rails, EART with an Air Zone, and Ibanez with the Javier. They’re all 6s in various tunings down to B, and the Ibanez is a 7. I can get the tone I’m after almost effortlessly with any of them. 

When I plug in the 8 with the Abasi, that wah pedal tone comes on and won’t go away. I’ve raised and lowered the pickup, and tried cutting it with an EQ. It’s in the 4-7k range, cutting helped, but makes the neck pickup sound awful. 

Is there a soapbar Fluence that doesn’t have that wah tone? Everybody says the Modern bridge has even more of that (online clips sound almost indistinguishable from the Abasi), so maybe the Alnico?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Chris Bowsman said:


> Right now, I have a PRS with a Norton, JP6 with a Crunch Lab, Legator with a GFS Rails, EART with an Air Zone, and Ibanez with the Javier. They’re all 6s in various tunings down to B, and the Ibanez is a 7. I can get the tone I’m after almost effortlessly with any of them.
> 
> When I plug in the 8 with the Abasi, that wah pedal tone comes on and won’t go away. I’ve raised and lowered the pickup, and tried cutting it with an EQ. It’s in the 4-7k range, cutting helped, but makes the neck pickup sound awful.
> 
> Is there a soapbar Fluence that doesn’t have that wah tone? Everybody says the Modern bridge has even more of that (online clips sound almost indistinguishable from the Abasi), so maybe the Alnico?


Modern voice 2 isn't like v1 at all. It's much thicker and less middy.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Chris Bowsman said:


> Right now, I have a PRS with a Norton, JP6 with a Crunch Lab, Legator with a GFS Rails, EART with an Air Zone, and Ibanez with the Javier. They’re all 6s in various tunings down to B, and the Ibanez is a 7. I can get the tone I’m after almost effortlessly with any of them.
> 
> When I plug in the 8 with the Abasi, that wah pedal tone comes on and won’t go away. I’ve raised and lowered the pickup, and tried cutting it with an EQ. It’s in the 4-7k range, cutting helped, but makes the neck pickup sound awful.
> 
> Is there a soapbar Fluence that doesn’t have that wah tone? Everybody says the Modern bridge has even more of that (online clips sound almost indistinguishable from the Abasi), so maybe the Alnico?



Am I the only one who likes the cocked wah? I've had 2 guitars with moderns and I thought v1 sounded incredibly good. If you EQ it right you can get rid of the twangy pick attack every modern metal tone has any more and it's all squawky honky cocked wah goodness. I haven't tried them in ERGs though but for drop C and D standard they sounded great. I was gonna say I've got an inbound 81-7 set I'd give you for the Abasis if they're somehow more middy than the moderns but they're an 8 so


sadness

if the moderns had more of a chainsaw type high end like the X2N and a heavier gut punch in the low mids like the 57 or that crazy sub bass thjng the Warpig does, they would be perfect. They're a little smooth and refined on V1 but if I could get a more pissed off death metal sort of feel on V1 and either more scoop or less twang on V2 I'd have them on all my guitars. 


That's a lie bc I never have more than 1 of the same pickup in the house but if some active like either of those descriptions existed I would say fishman has beaten EMG. So far the 57 is the best active ever made, at least for 6 strings.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Am I the only one who likes the cocked wah? I've had 2 guitars with moderns and I thought v1 sounded incredibly good. If you EQ it right you can get rid of the twangy pick attack every modern metal tone has any more and it's all squawky honky cocked wah goodness. I haven't tried them in ERGs though but for drop C and D standard they sounded great. I was gonna say I've got an inbound 81-7 set I'd give you for the Abasis if they're somehow more middy than the moderns but they're an 8 so
> 
> 
> sadness


modern v1 is good in the right context and rig. I like the moderns in my balsac e1 (which i. keep in e standard).


----------



## Chris Bowsman

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Am I the only one who likes the cocked wah?



Can’t speak for anyone else, but I hate it. Makes everything sound like a dude with a stuffed up nose humming into a cardboard box. 

I get a tone that works well with all my other guitars, then plug this in and the active voice is awful. The thicker voice is better, until I plug one of the other guitars back in. The 8 was the only guitar I played for a long time, so I didn’t really notice it.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

TheBolivianSniper said:


> If you EQ it right...





KnightBrolaire said:


> modern v1 is good in the right context and rig.



Can I ask what you guys are using and maybe some ballpark EQ settings you dig? Considering the sheer volume of people who have switched over to the Modern, I feel like I have to be missing something obvious.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Chris Bowsman said:


> Can I ask what you guys are using and maybe some ballpark EQ settings you dig? Considering the sheer volume of people who have switched over to the Modern, I feel like I have to be missing something obvious.


uhh I'm not using any external eqs for my setup.
I run a variety of amps (see my profile info for all the amps I own) and IRs so unless you're running something pretty comparable it wouldn't do you much good to base your rig eq off mine. 

Main thing is to cut a bit of mids on the amp and let the modern's natural midrange poke through ime. 

If the upper mids are a problem though, then
peel back some 2-4khz. 4-6khz is more high end
Everything higher than that is basically super high end and less important imo (most people can't hear shit above 12-15khz).


Here's some demos I did with the moderns a while back (no post production of any sort)


----------



## hensh!n

Chris Bowsman said:


> Fluence question:
> 
> How's the Fishman Modern 8 bridge vs the Abasi bridge? The *only* sound I'm not thrilled with in my Tosin-loaded 8 is the metal rhythm tone. I'm not anti-djent at all, but the tone I want is more based on the classic thrash/death metal EMG 81 sound. Does the Modern have less of that wah-filter squawk than the Abasi?
> 
> What I'm finding with the Tosins is if I get the low F# sounding good, everything in the "normal" guitar range is honk-city. I didn't wire the guitar, so I'm not positive which is voice 1 or 2, but I can almost get the tone I want with the bassier voice (I think passive), but then the other sounds like I have a mid boost and a wah turned on. Probably awesome for djent, but not for thrash/death.



I had the Modern 7's and the Abasi 7's in my guitar for some time. You can alleviate some of the squawk by wiring in the HFQ, but it is quite subtle. The Abasi's don't really squawk unless you're in single coil mode. You can differentiate V1 from V2 by the difference in level and brightness. The Active voicing is much hotter and brighter, it crunches on clean. The passive voice is much more natural sounding clean, but it isn't as bright or hot making it more dynamic overall.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

hensh!n said:


> I had the Modern 7's and the Abasi 7's in my guitar for some time. You can alleviate some of the squawk by wiring in the HFQ, but it is quite subtle. The Abasi's don't really squawk unless you're in single coil mode. You can differentiate V1 from V2 by the difference in level and brightness. The Active voicing is much hotter and brighter, it crunches on clean. The passive voice is much more natural sounding clean, but it isn't as bright or hot making it more dynamic overall.



In my 8, the active Abasi voice sounds like a wah pedal is engaged. The passive voice still has that, but to a much lesser degree.


----------



## elkoki

Chris Bowsman said:


> Can’t speak for anyone else, but I hate it. Makes everything sound like a dude with a stuffed up nose humming into a cardboard box.
> 
> I get a tone that works well with all my other guitars, then plug this in and the active voice is awful. The thicker voice is better, until I plug one of the other guitars back in. The 8 was the only guitar I played for a long time, so I didn’t really notice it.



Aren't just about all Dimarzios known for having a bit of cocked wah sound too? This is why so many lead players use them, they like that vocal/ wah tone for leads. If I read right you like Dimarzios? 

I've tried the Abasi's and I actually like them, they have a nice thick tone to them , at least in the guitar I tried them in. I didnt notice too much of a wah tone, could it be the guitar you used them in is just naturally too bright or twangy sounding ?


----------



## Chris Bowsman

elkoki said:


> Aren't just about all Dimarzios known for having a bit of cocked wah sound too? This is why so many lead players use them, they like that vocal/ wah tone for leads. If I read right you like Dimarzios?



I have an Air Zone in one guitar, and it does have a bit of the wah sound. It sounds more like a general mid boost, with a much wider frequency range, though. With the Tosin bridge, I can get the 7th and 8th strings sounding good, but as soon as I’m trying to riff on the 6th or above, the wah tone becomes extremely pronounced. 

With my ceramic Norton and Crunch Lab, the wah sound really isn’t there. 



> I've tried the Abasi's and I actually like them, they have a nice thick tone to them , at least in the guitar I tried them in. I didnt notice too much of a wah tone, could it be the guitar you used them in is just naturally too bright or twangy sounding ?



I think a big part of the problem is I’ve been migrating back to heavier strings. I have that bizarre D’Addario 10-74 set with the relatively stupid heavy wound 4th-7th strings. Tried moving them all over one spot, so the A,E,B, and F# are all really thin, and the sound is much less accentuated.


----------



## elkoki

Chris Bowsman said:


> I have an Air Zone in one guitar, and it does have a bit of the wah sound. It sounds more like a general mid boost, with a much wider frequency range, though. With the Tosin bridge, I can get the 7th and 8th strings sounding good, but as soon as I’m trying to riff on the 6th or above, the wah tone becomes extremely pronounced.
> 
> With my ceramic Norton and Crunch Lab, the wah sound really isn’t there.
> 
> 
> 
> I think a big part of the problem is I’ve been migrating back to heavier strings. I have that bizarre D’Addario 10-74 set with the relatively stupid heavy wound 4th-7th strings. Tried moving them all over one spot, so the A,E,B, and F# are all really thin, and the sound is much less accentuated.



The Abasis I tried were on a 6 string, I wouldn't doubt if they were voiced a lot differently compared to the 8 string versions you have. I didnt get a lot of play time with them but they sounded quite thick to me, especially after using the KSE set for a while which has little to no bass.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

elkoki said:


> The Abasis I tried were on a 6 string, I wouldn't doubt if they were voiced a lot differently compared to the 8 string versions you have. I didnt get a lot of play time with them but they sounded quite thick to me, especially after using the KSE set for a while which has little to no bass.



According to Frank, one of the benefits of the Fluence tech is the 6,7, and 8 versions will be voiced the same. 

Your post have me the idea to try setting my EQ around the normal range strings, rather than focusing on the F# and B. So, thanks


----------



## elkoki

Chris Bowsman said:


> According to Frank, one of the benefits of the Fluence tech is the 6,7, and 8 versions will be voiced the same.
> 
> Your post have me the idea to try setting my EQ around the normal range strings, rather than focusing on the F# and B. So, thanks



Question, is there a bit of a volume drop when going from the bridge to the neck?


----------



## Chris Bowsman

elkoki said:


> Question, is there a bit of a volume drop when going from the bridge to the neck?



No, extremely well balanced.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Did some things that helped a lot yesterday evening. 

The biggest was adding the mic bundle on AmpliTube. Having a second mic and placement options is a game changer. Apologies for the “no shit, Sherlock” revelation, but I’m new to the iPad amp game. 

I’m also trying out a bunch of different amps and cabs from my usual. I think the Powerball accentuated the wah tone, as the 5150 with a Mesa cab is much better.


----------



## elkoki

Chris Bowsman said:


> Did some things that helped a lot yesterday evening.
> 
> The biggest was adding the mic bundle on AmpliTube. Having a second mic and placement options is a game changer. Apologies for the “no shit, Sherlock” revelation, but I’m new to the iPad amp game.
> 
> I’m also trying out a bunch of different amps and cabs from my usual. I think the Powerball accentuated the wah tone, as the 5150 with a Mesa cab is much better.



I bought the Tosin set on Amazon and thanks to Prime I got them in 2 days and installed them as soon as I got them. I LOVE the bridge pickup on this set. After using the KSE set for a few months I gotta say I like the Tosin's way more. The KSE bridge had SO little bass, lots of output and treble that it sounded a bit harsh and thin to me.. Tosin's bridge sounds a bit fatter, bit less aggressive and sounds "richer" I dont like using those kinds of words but it's the only way to describe it. It's easily my favorite Fluence bridge so far, I'm way happier with it than I was for the KSE set. The cleans are much nicer too imo. Only thing is the neck pickup sounds a little low output to me ? The bridge sounds more saturated and brighter in comparison, switching from the neck over to the bridge the difftence in high end and saturation is obvious.. the pickup heights are about equal. Don't know if this is how it's supposed to be, or if my neck pickup has a defect, it still sounds good though .. just makes me wonder .... none of the other Fluences I tried were like this


----------



## Chromatizm

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Aren't they active by default? If so, don't even connect the Voice 2 wire. Connect the Single Coil wire where you'd install the voicing switch on the push-pull pot.



Thank you for the idea!
(Un)Fortunately, they are Voice 2 by default. You have to pull potentiometer to get Voice 1.
What do I do if I want to have both voices on the neck pickup plus Voice 3 "tele neck" option, but replace the rest of them with the custom wiring? I've asked Frank on the Fishman TA thread here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/tosin-abasi-fluence-sig-set.318417/page-12#post-5326873, but if you have any suggestion, please chime in!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chromatizm said:


> Thank you for the idea!
> (Un)Fortunately, they are Voice 2 by default. You have to pull potentiometer to get Voice 1.
> What do I do if I want to have both voices on the neck pickup plus Voice 3 "tele neck" option, but replace the rest of them with the custom wiring? I've asked Frank on the Fishman TA thread here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/tosin-abasi-fluence-sig-set.318417/page-12#post-5326873, but if you have any suggestion, please chime in!



The Fluences should have came with little black jumper clips. Insert that on the Voice and GND pins under the pickup and that will change the voicing without needing the pot. If you don't have the jumper clips, just any way to bridge the Voice and GND pins together will do the job

Not sure about custom wiring. That's way out of my league.


----------



## IwantTacos

Chromatizm said:


> Thank you for the idea!
> (Un)Fortunately, they are Voice 2 by default. You have to pull potentiometer to get Voice 1.
> What do I do if I want to have both voices on the neck pickup plus Voice 3 "tele neck" option, but replace the rest of them with the custom wiring? I've asked Frank on the Fishman TA thread here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/tosin-abasi-fluence-sig-set.318417/page-12#post-5326873, but if you have any suggestion, please chime in!



if you ground the v3 jumper the pickup will automatically be in v3 all the time. switching to different coils on the Abasi bridge is bit complicated and I'm not actually sure if I've figured it out yet.


----------



## Chromatizm

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Fluences should have came with little black jumper clips. Insert that on the Voice and GND pins under the pickup and that will change the voicing without needing the pot.



Do I understand you correctly: just switch "Output" and "Voice 2" switches to have the "Voice 1" as the default voice (push-pull in lower position)? Correct? https://img.kytary.com/eshop_co_uk/...in-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel.jpg



IwantTacos said:


> f you ground the v3 jumper the pickup will automatically be in v3 all the time.



If I'm reading Fishman manual correctly, V3 always takes over other two voices. So in this case will I have only V3 and not being able to use V1/V2? I'm afraid this is not what I'm looking for, I think I need to keep that sweet but biting Voice 1 neck+bridge humbucking option!
This is how it is wired currently in my guitar: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...in-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-5-way-Otax-Super-Switch.pdf

I'm actually OK with dropping Voice 2 completely (not really a classic rock guy) if I could get different single-coil options instead (those not used/available by using this particular wiring)


----------



## Strobe

Chromatizm said:


> Do I understand you correctly: just switch "Output" and "Voice 2" switches to have the "Voice 1" as the default voice (push-pull in lower position)? Correct? https://img.kytary.com/eshop_co_uk/...in-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm reading Fishman manual correctly, V3 always takes over other two voices. So in this case will I have only V3 and not being able to use V1/V2? I'm afraid this is not what I'm looking for, I think I need to keep that sweet but biting Voice 1 neck+bridge humbucking option!
> This is how it is wired currently in my guitar: https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/...in-Abasi-Rev2-1xV-5-way-Otax-Super-Switch.pdf
> 
> I'm actually OK with dropping Voice 2 completely (not really a classic rock guy) if I could get different single-coil options instead (those not used/available by using this particular wiring)



If you put the jumper on Voice 2, voice 2 will always be engaged instead of Voice 1. The jumper is essentially a little piece that makes something be always switched on. If you had zero switching on your guitar, you would always have voice 1 on. If you had the jumper on voice 2 or 3, you would always have voice 2 or 3 on. It is true that voice 3 overrides 1 or 2, so if you had a jumper on voice 3, it would always be on regardless of whether 1 or 2 was switched on with a jumper or not.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay I'm confused, not sure how to jumper THOSE abasis. I was looking at these.







And yeah, I'm not sure which is true with the Abasis; I'm going to assume whoever wired your Abasis made it to where Voice 2 is pushed in, but by default (with no pot or jumper) is voice 1, so jumping the tabs on the Abasi should give you Voice too.


----------



## Chromatizm

Strobe said:


> If you put the jumper on Voice 2,



The second revision of TAs does not have jumpers, please see https://img.kytary.com/eshop_co_uk/...in-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel.jpg


----------



## IwantTacos

Chromatizm said:


> The second revision of TAs does not have jumpers, please see https://img.kytary.com/eshop_co_uk/...in-abasi-7-string-pickup-set-black-nickel.jpg



I'm looking at jumpers.


----------



## Chromatizm

IwantTacos said:


> I'm looking at jumpers.



Rev. 1 or Rev. 2? Can you please show me those in Rev. 2 image, maybe I'm missing something. Thanks!


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?


Using the Abasi set: with my setup it is dead silent, even under heavy gain.


----------



## Mura

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?


I have a TA 8s. I had 6s in the past. 
I feel that both Vo3s are clearly more noisy than Vo1 and Vo2.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?



Been a looooooong time since I had my KsE set but I don't recall Voice 3 being super noisy.


----------



## elkoki

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?


Single coil option is definitely nosier than full humbucking mode.


----------



## elkoki

Marv Attaxx said:


> Using the Abasi set: with my setup it is dead silent, even under heavy gain.


Are you using a noise gate? because single coil mode for me is definitely noisier than full humbucking


----------



## Strobe

Kyle Jordan said:


> Question for you Fluence owners with pickups that have the Voice 3 single coil option: How noisy under gain is Voice 3?



My classics do not have the voice 3, but my Abasi set does. There is a very small increase in noise on the single coil setting, but it is not a lot - nothing like a true single coil. Even with gain, it is barely there.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

elkoki said:


> Are you using a noise gate? because single coil mode for me is definitely noisier than full humbucking


Now that you mention it, I don't even know 
I've dialed in my tone a while ago and didn't change it ever since. What I can say tho is that I don't treat the single coil voice differently than the humbucking voice and I can easily use my high-gain-setup pretty much noiseless when using the single coil mode. I'm using the 5-way-switch setup which either activates both inner (I think at least) single coils or the neck as single coil alone and both work fine.


----------



## Strobe

Marv Attaxx said:


> Now that you mention it, I don't even know
> I've dialed in my tone a while ago and didn't change it ever since. What I can say tho is that I don't treat the single coil voice differently than the humbucking voice and I can easily use my high-gain-setup pretty much noiseless when using the single coil mode. I'm using the 5-way-switch setup which either activates both inner (I think at least) single coils or the neck as single coil alone and both work fine.



I turned off all my noise gates. Single coil mode on my Abasi set is as I mentioned definitely noisier with high gain - but it is probably 1/4 of what I get with an actual single coil. It is not quiet, but for whatever reason it is not that bad.


----------



## Legion

So I hope I'm not necrobumping this thread.
I'd like to tap into this forum's collective experience with Fishmans. I'm toying with the idea of trying out a set. This is for a naturally very tight and upper-middy guitar (which already has found its holy grail pickup set in a pair of Elysian Hybrids, but I'm curious about Fishmans).
The guitar unfortunately routed for passives so I am probably locked to a Javier Reyes set or an Open Core classics set since I have no interest in carving up this guitar.
The Reyes set seems a bit too specialized, so I'm looking favourably at the Classic set.

1) I remember reading somewhere that the classics sound awfully shrill in an already bright guitar, but I have also read that the HF tilt solves that problem. Thoughts?

2) What are the differences in feel between Voice 1 and Voice 2 for the bridge pickup? Is Voice 2 significantly thicker than Voice 1? The description seems to suggest so.

3) _*Just how thick are they anyway,*_ compared to, say, a Tone Zone (as a benchmark pickup that most people have played)?


Curiosity is really getting the better of me, and I have some disposable income to indulge it. Worst case if I hate the Fishmans I'll just jump back to the Elysians and be perfectly happy.

Thanks and cheers!

EDIT: Paging @KnightBrolaire because I will bet my right nut he's tried every pickup under the fucking sun. 


EDIT 2: Turns out the Keith Merrow stuff is also open core-sized, so those get thrown into the mix too I guess. Opinions on those?


----------



## juka

Haven't played the Javier Reyes yet, strange thing is compared to all the others you won't find (m)any reviews on them.
Otherwise I have played and owned all 7string Fishman available. KM7 and Open Core Classic 7 turned out to be my all time favs. Both sets are great and extremely versatile (well actually the neck pu is the same on both), so some days I like the KMs better and the next day I prefer the classics.
Solely based on the description the JRs might be suited a little bit better for overly bright guitars and maybe that's what's keeping me from trying them out.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Legion said:


> So I hope I'm not necrobumping this thread.
> I'd like to tap into this forum's collective experience with Fishmans. I'm toying with the idea of trying out a set. This is for a naturally very tight and upper-middy guitar (which already has found its holy grail pickup set in a pair of Elysian Hybrids, but I'm curious about Fishmans).
> The guitar unfortunately routed for passives so I am probably locked to a Javier Reyes set or an Open Core classics set since I have no interest in carving up this guitar.
> The Reyes set seems a bit too specialized, so I'm looking favourably at the Classic set.
> 
> 1) I remember reading somewhere that the classics sound awfully shrill in an already bright guitar, but I have also read that the HF tilt solves that problem. Thoughts?
> 
> 2) What are the differences in feel between Voice 1 and Voice 2 for the bridge pickup? Is Voice 2 significantly thicker than Voice 1? The description seems to suggest so.
> 
> 3) _*Just how thick are they anyway,*_ compared to, say, a Tone Zone (as a benchmark pickup that most people have played)?
> 
> 
> Curiosity is really getting the better of me, and I have some disposable income to indulge it. Worst case if I hate the Fishmans I'll just jump back to the Elysians and be perfectly happy.
> 
> Thanks and cheers!
> 
> EDIT: Paging @KnightBrolaire because I will bet my right nut he's tried every pickup under the fucking sun.
> 
> 
> EDIT 2: Turns out the Keith Merrow stuff is also open core-sized, so those get thrown into the mix too I guess. Opinions on those?


If you like the elysians then do not waste your time with the classics. Swapping a known quantity for an unknown usually ends poorly.
Redoing the wiring for all the controls with fluences is a pain in the ass, and the customer service has been less than optimal ime.
The classics are horribly bright in bright guitars already ime, they're better suited for a thicker/darker sounding guitar. HF tilt only helps a tad imo. V2 is thicker but not tone zone level imo.
The KM set is meh for me as well. The neck is literally a classic neck, and the bridge is slightly tweaked. I don't recommend it either tbh. 




I can't help with the javier set since I haven't bothered trying it yet. General consensus seems to be that the tosin/javier sets are some of the best options from their lineup in terms of versatility.


----------



## Legion

KnightBrolaire said:


> If you like the elysians then do not waste your time with the classics. Swapping a known quantity for an unknown usually ends poorly.
> Redoing the wiring for all the controls with fluences is a pain in the ass, and the customer service has been less than optimal ime.
> The classics are horribly bright in bright guitars already ime, they're better suited for a thicker/darker sounding guitar. HF tilt only helps a tad imo. V2 is thicker but not tone zone level imo.
> The KM set is meh for me as well. The neck is literally a classic neck, and the bridge is slightly tweaked. I don't recommend it either tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help with the javier set since I haven't bothered trying it yet. General consensus seems to be that the tosin/javier sets are some of the best options from their lineup in terms of versatility.




Fair enough. I hadn't considered the work involved in swapping out everything, cuz I'm an idiot. You've convinced me to stay put. Hahah.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

IME and as I mentioned before, the JR is like the opposite of the classics. I had them in my Aristides 070R, tried everything under the sun, sounded too thick/under-a-blanket to my ears. Replaced them w/ a Tosin Abasi's set and is like night & day difference. In a bright guitar, the JRs might sound great.

Re the KM, the neck is a classic, while the bridge's V1 is very tight, low-mid focused, not bright. V2 is a little looser, more bass, EVH kinda brown tone.

*EDIT:* ...and for some weird reason KM mentioned on his Instagram that KM model is no more!? But they're still there on Fishman's web site, so no idea what KM was talking about.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> IME and as I mentioned before, the JR is like the opposite of the classics. I had them in my Aristides 070R, tried everything under the sun, sounded too thick/under-a-blanket to my ears. Replaced them w/ a Tosin Abasi's set and is like night & day difference. In a bright guitar, the JRs might sound great.
> 
> Re the KM, the neck is a classic, while the bridge's V1 is very tight, low-mid focused, not bright. V2 is a little looser, more bass, EVH kinda brown tone.
> 
> *EDIT:* ...and for some weird reason KM mentioned on his Instagram that KM model is no more!? But they're still there on Fishman's web site, so no idea what KM was talking about.



It's weird because I expected the Javiers to sound bright to the point of almost being harsh, due to the kinda stuff he plays. 

Also they're probably selling the stock they got left, or waiting for NAMM to update the website. It looks like he went back to Duncan and is even trying Lundgren pickups.


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ...and for some weird reason KM mentioned on his Instagram that KM model is no more!? But they're still there on Fishman's web site, so no idea what KM was talking about.



"Drugs are no fun, kids!" 

As Ken Susi pointed out in one of his Fishman live broadcasts following Keith's strange Instagram post all contracts between Keith, Schecter, Fishman regarding his set of pickups are still running and none of them has been cancelled prematurely. So maybe just some kind of strange joke nobody got?!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's weird because I expected the Javiers to sound bright to the point of almost being harsh, due to the kinda stuff he plays.
> 
> ...



His ESP sig is kind of bright, swamp ash, maple top, ebony fb, Walnut/maple neck thru, so yeah. I don't know man, I wanted to like them, maybe it's just the Arium + JR didn't go well, still weird given how great the Tosins sound in the Aristides.


----------



## Xaeldaren

How well doe the Moderns do for Pantera-esque tones? I'm looking ahead to getting a trem-equipped guitar later this year, purely to stick in 429hz and play pinch harmonics and squeals. Ibanez have a few trem models with the Moderns in, and I've always wanted to try them.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Xaeldaren said:


> How well doe the Moderns do for Pantera-esque tones? I'm looking ahead to getting a trem-equipped guitar later this year, purely to stick in 429hz and play pinch harmonics and squeals. Ibanez have a few trem models with the Moderns in, and I've always wanted to try them.


Pretty well ime.


----------



## Xaeldaren

Sick.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Someone talk me into or out of doing the ridiculously complicated wiring for the Javier set in my ST7. That fucker needs new pickups like crazy since I play the hell out of it and it's not bad for distorted tones but it's being carried by the fact that I'm on a 6505 kick and once I get Pro Tools back and running it sounds like shit into my preferred setup. 

Current ideas are the JRs, Dimarzio Imperiums, and BKP Ragnaroks. It's a super bright snappy guitar and I want to thicken it up especially due to the sounds I like. Jazzy cleans, good coil splits, super liquid leads, a lot of clarity, and massive wall of sound chunk on the high gain. I do happen to need some clarity since I'm getting to more prog sorta stuff and of course for 7 voice chords (this is my jazz electric) but all 3 of these sets sound like they're thicker, heavier, and chunky with the same clarity and good cleans. 

I do have a good deal of money and upcoming job prospects so I'll snag some eventually, I just want to get one set and done. I know a lot of people say the JRs don't get mean enough, the Imperiums are kind of a one trick pony, and the Rags need too much from the right hand, but honestly which one really would work? I only post here since the JRs are the current frontrunner due to the nature of Javier's music, the voicings, and all the options.


----------



## Xaeldaren

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Someone talk me into or out of doing the ridiculously complicated wiring for the Javier set in my ST7. That fucker needs new pickups like crazy since I play the hell out of it and it's not bad for distorted tones but it's being carried by the fact that I'm on a 6505 kick and once I get Pro Tools back and running it sounds like shit into my preferred setup.
> 
> Current ideas are the JRs, Dimarzio Imperiums, and BKP Ragnaroks. It's a super bright snappy guitar and I want to thicken it up especially due to the sounds I like. Jazzy cleans, good coil splits, super liquid leads, a lot of clarity, and massive wall of sound chunk on the high gain. I do happen to need some clarity since I'm getting to more prog sorta stuff and of course for 7 voice chords (this is my jazz electric) but all 3 of these sets sound like they're thicker, heavier, and chunky with the same clarity and good cleans.
> 
> I do have a good deal of money and upcoming job prospects so I'll snag some eventually, I just want to get one set and done. I know a lot of people say the JRs don't get mean enough, the Imperiums are kind of a one trick pony, and the Rags need too much from the right hand, but honestly which one really would work? I only post here since the JRs are the current frontrunner due to the nature of Javier's music, the voicings, and all the options.



I can tell you I fucking love the Ragnaroks, but I do pick hard. Here they are in my Ibanez: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV-b_XBA_xJ/. I think they'd do what you want. They're very, very clear, chunky, and the cleans are nice too: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV-bvIDgrLn/.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Xaeldaren said:


> I can tell you I fucking love the Ragnaroks, but I do pick hard. Here they are in my Ibanez: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV-b_XBA_xJ/. I think they'd do what you want. They're very, very clear, chunky, and the cleans are nice too: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV-bvIDgrLn/.



Yeah I'm just a little worried since I pick a little lighter and my main amps (sims lol) are kinda dry already. I've heard they don't saturate super heavy which would suck in such a thin, bright guitar. Your demo sounds pretty sick tho.

Isn't Periphery 4 Rags too? That's an insane sound.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Someone talk me into or out of doing the ridiculously complicated wiring for the Javier set in my ST7. That fucker needs new pickups like crazy since I play the hell out of it and it's not bad for distorted tones but it's being carried by the fact that I'm on a 6505 kick and once I get Pro Tools back and running it sounds like shit into my preferred setup.
> 
> Current ideas are the JRs, Dimarzio Imperiums, and BKP Ragnaroks. It's a super bright snappy guitar and I want to thicken it up especially due to the sounds I like. Jazzy cleans, good coil splits, super liquid leads, a lot of clarity, and massive wall of sound chunk on the high gain. I do happen to need some clarity since I'm getting to more prog sorta stuff and of course for 7 voice chords (this is my jazz electric) but all 3 of these sets sound like they're thicker, heavier, and chunky with the same clarity and good cleans.
> 
> I do have a good deal of money and upcoming job prospects so I'll snag some eventually, I just want to get one set and done. I know a lot of people say the JRs don't get mean enough, the Imperiums are kind of a one trick pony, and the Rags need too much from the right hand, but honestly which one really would work? I only post here since the JRs are the current frontrunner due to the nature of Javier's music, the voicings, and all the options.


imperiums. They do everything you want, especially with a coil split option.


----------



## Xaeldaren

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Yeah I'm just a little worried since I pick a little lighter and my main amps (sims lol) are kinda dry already. I've heard they don't saturate super heavy which would suck in such a thin, bright guitar. Your demo sounds pretty sick tho.
> 
> Isn't Periphery 4 Rags too? That's an insane sound.



Misha's parts for P4 would be for sure. I have to do some errands, but I'll record a video showing you a more saturated tone when I get home. The tone in that video is my super tight, lower-gain practice tone.


----------



## thorgan

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Someone talk me into or out of doing the ridiculously complicated wiring for the Javier set in my ST7. That fucker needs new pickups like crazy since I play the hell out of it and it's not bad for distorted tones but it's being carried by the fact that I'm on a 6505 kick and once I get Pro Tools back and running it sounds like shit into my preferred setup.
> 
> Current ideas are the JRs, Dimarzio Imperiums, and BKP Ragnaroks. It's a super bright snappy guitar and I want to thicken it up especially due to the sounds I like. Jazzy cleans, good coil splits, super liquid leads, a lot of clarity, and massive wall of sound chunk on the high gain. I do happen to need some clarity since I'm getting to more prog sorta stuff and of course for 7 voice chords (this is my jazz electric) but all 3 of these sets sound like they're thicker, heavier, and chunky with the same clarity and good cleans.
> 
> I do have a good deal of money and upcoming job prospects so I'll snag some eventually, I just want to get one set and done. I know a lot of people say the JRs don't get mean enough, the Imperiums are kind of a one trick pony, and the Rags need too much from the right hand, but honestly which one really would work? I only post here since the JRs are the current frontrunner due to the nature of Javier's music, the voicings, and all the options.



I love the JR set in my kxk 7, I think it fits the bill for exactly what you described. It is definitely a "thicker" more traditional type of distortion, not the super mid spiked voicings alot of modern pickups have, but it is still very clear, it also has stellar clean tones both split and together, if it gives you any confidence installing these was my first time ever soldering anything and it wasn't that difficult. I've been meaning to put some sound demos together and if I get to it this weekend I'll drop it here.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

KnightBrolaire said:


> imperiums. They do everything you want, especially with a coil split option.





Xaeldaren said:


> Misha's parts for P4 would be for sure. I have to do some errands, but I'll record a video showing you a more saturated tone when I get home. The tone in that video is my super tight, lower-gain practice tone.





thorgan said:


> I love the JR set in my kxk 7, I think it fits the bill for exactly what you described. It is definitely a "thicker" more traditional type of distortion, not the super mid spiked voicings alot of modern pickups have, but it is still very clear, it also has stellar clean tones both split and together, if it gives you any confidence installing these was my first time ever soldering anything and it wasn't that difficult. I've been meaning to put some sound demos together and if I get to it this weekend I'll drop it here.




Lmao thanks for the outpouring of support, there's a set of imperiums super cheap locally and if they look to be in good shape I'm gonna try them. The ease of installation for passives in this guitar is great since it's 4 knobs and 3 mini switches so that's the only reason I didn't wanna fuck with fishmans and have to replace all the pots/solder 5 switches. 

Out of all 3 the dimarzios are the easiest, cheapest, and probably the closest to the sound I want but the other 2 options are a little fancier and more exotic. Thanks for the help guys, I've made a lot of sales recently and have work coming up so pickup swapping is back on the menu.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Lmao thanks for the outpouring of support, there's a set of imperiums super cheap locally and if they look to be in good shape I'm gonna try them. The ease of installation for passives in this guitar is great since it's 4 knobs and 3 mini switches so that's the only reason I didn't wanna fuck with fishmans and have to replace all the pots/solder 5 switches.
> 
> Out of all 3 the dimarzios are the easiest, cheapest, and probably the closest to the sound I want but the other 2 options are a little fancier and more exotic. Thanks for the help guys, I've made a lot of sales recently and have work coming up so pickup swapping is back on the menu.


It is 100% not going to be worth trying to rip out all your wiring to slap a set of actives in. I've been down that road and it sucks ass with fishmans.
Definitely grab the imperiums, I think you'll be plenty happy with them. 
I have a bunch of clips of the imperiums if you're interested.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

KnightBrolaire said:


> It is 100% not going to be worth trying to rip out all your wiring to slap a set of actives in. I've been down that road and it sucks ass with fishmans.
> Definitely grab the imperiums, I think you'll be plenty happy with them.
> I have a bunch of clips of the imperiums if you're interested.



I've been going off your paragraphs upon paragraphs of writing on them since I keep getting 404s with the clips. That would be great if you could pm me a few just since the YouTube demos are a little bad.


----------



## Xaeldaren

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Lmao thanks for the outpouring of support, there's a set of imperiums super cheap locally and if they look to be in good shape I'm gonna try them. The ease of installation for passives in this guitar is great since it's 4 knobs and 3 mini switches so that's the only reason I didn't wanna fuck with fishmans and have to replace all the pots/solder 5 switches.
> Out of all 3 the dimarzios are the easiest, cheapest, and probably the closest to the sound I want but the other 2 options are a little fancier and more exotic. Thanks for the help guys, I've made a lot of sales recently and have work coming up so pickup swapping is back on the menu.


I threw some videos of the Ragnaroks together for you. I hope they're helpful:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWWNzMyggAl/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWWOV9cg4Dl/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWWOn58AqMF/
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWWP3jpg5zi/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## Xaeldaren

It's just occurred to me that I may be a crazy person to go into such detail on the picking dynamics of one set of humbuckers in a thread for a completely separate brand of pickups, but I'm just trying to be helpful.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Thanks for all the demos, I actually had to pick up some software for school right after I messaged about the Imperiums so the pickup search is on hold for now. I really appreciate all the advice and videos, they did in fact help quite a bit. 

I haven't decided specifically what I want to do with both guitars (electronics, refins, fresh hardware) so it's nice having all this info available here.


----------



## Xaeldaren

You're welcome, man! It was a fun excuse to get really nerdy about them. If you have any other questions or anything that you think I can help with, just give me a shout.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

So I’ve only ever played fishmans in strandberg guitars and I was a bit underwhelmed. Part of that could be due to the light weight, chambered strandberg guitar I realize so I’m wondering if I should give fishmans another shot in a regular guitar (Ibanez RG). Will they sound that much different than what I’ve experienced?


----------



## Hoss632

TheShreddinHand said:


> So I’ve only ever played fishmans in strandberg guitars and I was a bit underwhelmed. Part of that could be due to the light weight, chambered strandberg guitar I realize so I’m wondering if I should give fishmans another shot in a regular guitar (Ibanez RG). Will they sound that much different than what I’ve experienced?


You might be onto something there. For me Strandberg's are some of the worst sounding guitars I've heard, regardless of what pick up is in them. Literally every strandberg to me sounds thin and tinny. I think Plini is about the only person whom I've heard even live that makes a Strandberg sound good. I'd say if you can find the Prestige Ibanez with the fishman's give it a shot and see if you still feel the same about them.


----------



## slavboi_delight

My experience with most of the fluence stuff is that they are lacking bass. Seriously lacking bass. That what makes them so clear probably. Even though I never had a pickup which was muddy to the point where they were unuseable for me.


----------



## Mountainman

I just installed a set of moderns in a Les Paul and am really enjoying them. I'm shocked I was able to wire everything together to work right on the first try. The clarity I am getting out of these is insane. I do wish the two voices were a little more different than they are. The tilt push pull doesnt really do anything I can hear. Maybe I wired it wrong, or my ears just suck? I am highly considering switching that push pull pot to a coil tap instead.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Mountainman said:


> I just installed a set of moderns in a Les Paul and am really enjoying them. I'm shocked I was able to wire everything together to work right on the first try. The clarity I am getting out of these is insane. I do wish the two voices were a little more different than they are. The tilt push pull doesnt really do anything I can hear. Maybe I wired it wrong, or my ears just suck? I am highly considering switching that push pull pot to a coil tap instead.


on a les paul with 4 knobs you could do a voice switch, 2 coil splits (inner and outer) and a hf tilt


----------



## Alberto7

I've gotten some pretty ridiculous tones out of the Fluence Moderns in my Strandberg 8, but I always have to dial them up a bit differently. I'll often add significantly more bass and slightly reduce the high mids.

I play with amp sims, so it's kinda annoying to have to crank up the input gain on my interface every time I want to play my Strandberg after my guitars with passive pickups, and viceversa.


----------



## Mountainman

slavboi_delight said:


> on a les paul with 4 knobs you could do a voice switch, 2 coil splits (inner and outer) and a hf tilt



For now I dont really want to add more push pull pots. Does the difference between splitting the inner and outer coils make that much of a difference?


----------



## Strobe

Alberto7 said:


> I've gotten some pretty ridiculous tones out of the Fluence Moderns in my Strandberg 8, but I always have to dial them up a bit differently. I'll often add significantly more bass and slightly reduce the high mids.
> 
> I play with amp sims, so it's kinda annoying to have to crank up the input gain on my interface every time I want to play my Strandberg after my guitars with passive pickups, and viceversa.



Surprised by this! The moderns are hotter than the passives I own (unless I activate the 6dB gain reduction feature on them). I do not have a lot of super high output passives, but the moderns are definitely hotter than the Duncan Custom 5, or various Dimarzio Petrucci sets I own. I do agree with the high mids on the modern being a little extreme and I do the same thing to tame them for rhythm playing.


----------



## Alberto7

Strobe said:


> Surprised by this! The moderns are hotter than the passives I own (unless I activate the 6dB gain reduction feature on them). I do not have a lot of super high output passives, but the moderns are definitely hotter than the Duncan Custom 5, or various Dimarzio Petrucci sets I own. I do agree with the high mids on the modern being a little extreme and I do the same thing to tame them for rhythm playing.



Yeah I looked into this a little, cause I keep reading that they are super hot pickups, but I'm not sure why they are so low output for me. I attributed it to the pickups being active, but I read somewhere that they are "full strength" pickups. Granted, I haven't yet tried messing with pickup height, but they don't look abnormally far from the strings anyway. My other guitars all have either BKP Holy Divers or DiMarzio D Sonic 7, and they all require much lower gain from the interface.

Not sure if it is a wiring issue with the Fishmans, but I haven't touched them since I bought the guitar brand new a couple months ago.

Not a huge problem for me though, they still sound great in their own Fluence way, once I get the input levels right.


----------



## slavboi_delight

Mountainman said:


> For now I dont really want to add more push pull pots. Does the difference between splitting the inner and outer coils make that much of a difference?


It's been half a year, but if i can remember correctly i was not very significant. Rather a "good to have thing" than anything else.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Alberto7 said:


> Yeah I looked into this a little, cause I keep reading that they are super hot pickups, but I'm not sure why they are so low output for me. I attributed it to the pickups being active, but I read somewhere that they are "full strength" pickups. Granted, I haven't yet tried messing with pickup height, but they don't look abnormally far from the strings anyway. My other guitars all have either BKP Holy Divers or DiMarzio D Sonic 7, and they all require much lower gain from the interface.
> 
> Not sure if it is a wiring issue with the Fishmans, but I haven't touched them since I bought the guitar brand new a couple months ago.
> 
> Not a huge problem for me though, they still sound great in their own Fluence way, once I get the input levels right.



The lack of bass probably makes them seem low output. That's how EMGs are for me.


----------



## slavboi_delight

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The lack of bass probably makes them seem low output. That's how EMGs are for me.


could it be the mid push, making them so focused? Thus they feel like they have less output? 
i had the same thing going when i was switching back and forth with a jb and the moderns
I had to turn back about 3 or 4 db in input with the jb.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Alberto7 said:


> Yeah I looked into this a little, cause I keep reading that they are super hot pickups, but I'm not sure why they are so low output for me. I attributed it to the pickups being active, but I read somewhere that they are "full strength" pickups. Granted, I haven't yet tried messing with pickup height, but they don't look abnormally far from the strings anyway. My other guitars all have either BKP Holy Divers or DiMarzio D Sonic 7, and they all require much lower gain from the interface.
> 
> Not sure if it is a wiring issue with the Fishmans, but I haven't touched them since I bought the guitar brand new a couple months ago.
> 
> Not a huge problem for me though, they still sound great in their own Fluence way, once I get the input levels right.


Have you changed your battery at all?. Moderns are definitely not low output and tend to become lower output as the batteries start to die.


----------



## Alberto7

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The lack of bass probably makes them seem low output. That's how EMGs are for me.



I don't think so. Even the DI track's waveform shows a much smaller amplitude than one from a guitar with passives.

In fact, I quickly recorded the exact same riff on Ableton with two different guitars, below is the screencap. For the the track on top I used my Ibanez AZ with a BKP Holy Diver in the bridge and the interface's input gain calibrated for it. The bottom track is the exact same riff on my Strandberg with Modern Fluences, and the interface is using the exact same input gain I used for the Ibanez.
The difference is very noticeable, where the BKP sounds full and rich across all frequencies, and the Fishman sounds teeny and malnourished.



Doing it the other way around, however, with the input gain set up for the Fishmans, the Fishmans sound great (although I think I still had the input gain a little low in the image below; I did this quick and dirty), whereas the BKP clips like a mofo:





slavboi_delight said:


> could it be the mid push, making them so focused? Thus they feel like they have less output?
> i had the same thing going when i was switching back and forth with a jb and the moderns
> I had to turn back about 3 or 4 db in input with the jb.



Actually, 3-4 dB is what I have to roll back the input gain to play my other guitars after playing the with the Fishmans.



KnightBrolaire said:


> Have you changed your battery at all?. Moderns are definitely not low output and tend to become lower output as the batteries start to die.



Yeah, at some point recently (3-4 weeks) I changed out the battery the guitar came with for a regular 9V Energizer battery, and it sounded just as before. Unless I got a dud battery, but that's kinda unlikely.


----------



## juka

Alberto7 said:


> Actually, 3-4 dB is what I have to roll back the input gain to play my other guitars after playing the with the Fishmans.



Not sure how Strandberg does the wiring, but have you checked that the -6db option of the Moderns isn't on?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> Not sure how Strandberg does the wiring, but have you checked that the -6db option of the Moderns isn't on?



That's a good idea, because yeah uh thats not right at all.


----------



## Alberto7

juka said:


> Not sure how Strandberg does the wiring, but have you checked that the -6db option of the Moderns isn't on?



Hhmm yeah, until yesterday (when I read your post) I didn't even know that was an option.

I never really cared to read up much on the Fluences before I got my Strandberg (just got the guitar cause I liked it, the pickups just happened to be in it), so I didn't quite realize just how many wiring options they have, and I've been getting a bit dizzy reading about them online.  But I think I've got the gist of them by now.

But yeah, I just found the wiring diagrams for the gain reduction setting. It seems it only applies to Voice 1 though (the "Active" voice), and I mostly play on Voice 2, which itself appears to be slightly lower output than V1, so I'm not sure that's the issue? In any case, I'll have to remove the pickups at some point during a string change to see exactly how things are wired down there. I found the diagrams on the Strandberg website, but there's been so many versions of the Boden that I just don't trust anything anymore; gotta see it for myself.


----------



## onix45

Hello,

There is not nearly enough information on the fluence modern wiring diagrams, so i would like to ask if anyone knows, if i can wire the moderns coil taps as in the picture i provided?
I.E.: the CT terminals are always connected together, and the H terminals are always connected together, and then a P/P switch pulls both CT terminals to ground, or connects both CT and both H terminals into a single contact point.

If this is allowed, i can use two push/pull pots, in combination with a 6 way Freeway switch to get a total of 9 possible positions (3 regular humbucker positions, 3 inner coil positions, and 3 outer coil), all of which would be selectable for voice 1 or 2.


----------



## IwantTacos

onix45 said:


> Hello,
> 
> There is not nearly enough information on the fluence modern wiring diagrams, so i would like to ask if anyone knows, if i can wire the moderns coil taps as in the picture i provided?
> I.E.: the CT terminals are always connected together, and the H terminals are always connected together, and then a P/P switch pulls both CT terminals to ground, or connects both CT and both H terminals into a single contact point.
> 
> If this is allowed, i can use two push/pull pots, in combination with a 6 way Freeway switch to get a total of 9 possible positions (3 regular humbucker positions, 3 inner coil positions, and 3 outer coil), all of which would be selectable for voice 1 or 2.




You cannot wire them that way. They are not switchable grounds. The h and ct are actual outputs.


----------



## onix45

IwantTacos said:


> You cannot wire them that way. They are not switchable grounds. The h and ct are actual outputs.


I don't understand, how are they outputs, if in order to access the outer coil Fishman says to connect the CT terminal to the H terminal?
I am attaching the diagram from Fishmans page.
The only thing i changed in my diagram is that i connected the separate CT and H terminal together.

This diagram tells me that the output is always coming from the Output pin of the pickup, and these two terminals are just control terminals. Am i wrong?


----------



## IwantTacos

onix45 said:


> I don't understand, how are they outputs, if in order to access the outer coil Fishman says to connect the CT terminal to the H terminal?
> I am attaching the diagram from Fishmans page.
> The only thing i changed in my diagram is that i connected the separate CT and H terminal together.
> 
> This diagram tells me that the output is always coming from the Output pin of the pickup, and these two terminals are just control terminals. Am i wrong?



there are two circuits for each fluence pickup. One is the circuit for the coils and the other one is the output from the fluence preamp. 


The h and ct are part of the coil side circuit. 

The entire circuit is wired like this. 


Ground - - ct - - h - - preamp in - - preamp - output. 

V1/v2 and high fi tilt happen on the preamp side of the circuit. (Although not exactly. There’s some trickery with v3 equipped pickups). Those are all toggles. 

ct and h are on the coil side of the circuit. 

when you ground ct you are making a circuit that is 

G(ct) - - h. That’s one coil

when you connect ct and h you make

g - - ct(h). That’s the other coil

when you connect the ct or h of 2 pickups together you have connected both pickups together permanently. 

I remember talking to you about this on Facebook or here. To do what you want to do you need a switch that has 4 independent circuit paths connected by a switch.


----------



## onix45

IwantTacos said:


> there are two circuits for each fluence pickup. One is the circuit for the coils and the other one is the output from the fluence preamp.
> 
> 
> The h and ct are part of the coil side circuit.
> 
> The entire circuit is wired like this.
> 
> 
> Ground - - ct - - h - - preamp in - - preamp - output.
> 
> V1/v2 and high fi tilt happen on the preamp side of the circuit. (Although not exactly. There’s some trickery with v3 equipped pickups). Those are all toggles.
> 
> ct and h are on the coil side of the circuit.
> 
> when you ground ct you are making a circuit that is
> 
> G(ct) - - h. That’s one coil
> 
> when you connect ct and h you make
> 
> g - - ct(h). That’s the other coil
> 
> when you connect the ct or h of 2 pickups together you have connected both pickups together permanently.
> 
> I remember talking to you about this on Facebook or here. To do what you want to do you need a switch that has 4 independent circuit paths connected by a switch.



Thank you for the information. As a side note - now i see why the Tosin Abasi 5-way pickup wiring works the way it does also.
So it seems that i need a minimum of 3 independent poles for the wiring i'm planning to work.
In regards to talking to me about this earlier - i do believe i have never asked this question anywhere before.


----------



## IwantTacos

onix45 said:


> Thank you for the information. As a side note - now i see why the Tosin Abasi 5-way pickup wiring works the way it does also.
> So it seems that i need a minimum of 3 independent poles for the wiring i'm planning to work.
> In regards to talking to me about this earlier - i do believe i have never asked this question anywhere before.




My bad. Someone else online had a question about using the 6 way freeway. Now if they would release a freeway that was actually a 6 way 4 pole switch that would be awesome. 

unfortunately they don’t really do that.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

literally just moderns with a single coil voice 


why in the fuck can't they just update the moderns


----------



## Alberto7

Because where's the money in that?


----------



## slavboi_delight

TheBolivianSniper said:


> literally just moderns with a single coil voice
> 
> 
> why in the fuck can't they just update the moderns



any info on retail prices?


----------



## FitRocker33

Disappointing. Hard pass from me but that’s just my opinion.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

After a period of experimenting, I'm back in love with the Abasis in my 8 string. I tried an 808X set, and a Nazgul/Sentient. I didn't dislike either of those, but the Fluences are sounding pretty great right now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TheBolivianSniper said:


> literally just moderns with a single coil voice
> 
> 
> why in the fuck can't they just update the moderns




It took like 4 years to come up with that huh?


----------



## slavboi_delight

I still have to giggle at the lag/latency argument from both of them.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

meanwhile still no Adler set in black...


----------



## Chris Bowsman

slavboi_delight said:


> I still have to giggle at the lag/latency argument from both of them.



I’ll buy that he feels more connected to the guitar with them. There’s all sorts of x-factor juju that makes us feel better with whatever gear, but referring to pickup latency sounds like pure horseshit.


----------



## IwantTacos

Chris Bowsman said:


> I’ll buy that he feels more connected to the guitar with them. There’s all sorts of x-factor juju that makes us feel better with whatever gear, but referring to pickup latency sounds like pure horseshit.



I mean it's not entirely juju. inductor systems have slew rates


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Had a cousin who is staying in the city with other family for the holidays come over this weekend and he has a 1527 with the open Classics. He brought it specifically to play through my Axe FX.

Having heard him and playing the guitar myself a lot, it really does confirm for me that the Classics are fantastic.

I think that I’m going to wait until my Aristides arrives first, but I’m going to pick up a set of the 8 string versions. I can at least plug and play and get Voice 1 without changing anything and then go back to the EMGs to compare in the same guitar.


----------



## ExplorerMike

Just got my set of the Matt Heafy Moderns today. Really curious to get them installed. Like mentioned above it doesn’t seem like he changed a bunch on them. My Schecter E-1 Balsac signature has Moderns in the same configuration (Alnico/Ceramic) installed and that one is wired for a Voice 1/Voice 2/Coil Split set up from the factory. 

Honestly if these end up being the 7 string version of those Balsac pickups I’d be pumped. Those sound great and the coil split is killer. Not sure when I’ll get around to installing them but should be in the next couple weeks hopefully. I’ll report back when I do!


----------



## IwantTacos

ExplorerMike said:


> Just got my set of the Matt Heafy Moderns today. Really curious to get them installed. Like mentioned above it doesn’t seem like he changed a bunch on them. My Schecter E-1 Balsac signature has Moderns in the same configuration (Alnico/Ceramic) installed and that one is wired for a Voice 1/Voice 2/Coil Split set up from the factory.
> 
> Honestly if these end up being the 7 string version of those Balsac pickups I’d be pumped. Those sound great and the coil split is killer. Not sure when I’ll get around to installing them but should be in the next couple weeks hopefully. I’ll report back when I do!
> View attachment 101018



the v3 split will be much much better.


----------



## ExplorerMike

IwantTacos said:


> the v3 split will be much much better.



Cool! The Schecter sounds good so if this is better then I’m sure I’ll be happy with it.


----------



## hayfever

is there any 6 string set that can't be wired HSH? it seems like from looking at the diagrams the individual *coil outputs are in different places on different pickups so it's kind of hard to tell


----------



## IwantTacos

hayfever said:


> is there any 6 string set that can't be wired HSH? it seems like from looking at the diagrams the individual *coil outputs are in different places on different pickups so it's kind of hard to tell



depends on if you want autosplititng or not. Abasi are very annoying. I don’t think the stef carpenters can be split. The rest should work.


----------



## MrWulf

Ok this is a little bit off topic but have anyone tried to switch out pickups from a Fishman Open Core-ish route? I have a guitar that I may want to switch out the pickup but it is routed really tightly to the open core shape (KM7 mk3) so I'm not sure if it is feasible to switch it out for something else


----------



## hayfever

IwantTacos said:


> depends on if you want autosplititng or not. Abasi are very annoying. I don’t think the stef carpenters can be split. The rest should work.



ok thanks, can you explain about the abasi being annoying? from what I can see they have independent outputs for nco/sco


----------



## praffensperger

hayfever said:


> ok thanks, can you explain about the abasi being annoying? from what I can see they have independent outputs for nco/sco


The SSA pickup is has a 'north' magnet. So you can do a split with the SCO (= south coil out) just like on other sets (Classic, KSE, etc.) but the NCO + the SSA pickup would add up the hum rather than subtract it.


----------



## IwantTacos

praffensperger said:


> The SSA pickup is has a 'north' magnet. So you can do a split with the SCO (= south coil out) just like on other sets (Classic, KSE, etc.) but the NCO + the SSA pickup would add up the hum rather than subtract it.



yup and they need multiple connections to other pickups and voice switching alto work properly. It’s not really designed to work with normally available passive pickup switches. It’s a mess if you want to get it perfect.


----------



## hayfever

makes sense, thanks


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Anybody using a Modern Alnico 8 in the bridge?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

IwantTacos said:


> depends on if you want autosplititng or not. Abasi are very annoying. I don’t think the stef carpenters can be split. The rest should work.



Stef Fluence pickups do split, u can even choose inner/outer coils iirc, that's how I wired them with splits (using a 3-way dpdt switch) in the guitar in my avatar. They sound great while split, but w/ hum if not in middle position.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Saw the Fluff/Ryan Bruce demo of the Matt Heafy pickups

Bleh. Has that squawky mid-range "cocked wah pedal" sound. Since Matt was a long-time EMG81 user, I'd hoped for something along those lines. But no, it's another ultra-tight, mid-boosted pickup like the KSE set. Shame.

Sadly Trivium's sound seems to get worse, and the latest album guitar tone is super obnoxious with all mids and not much else. They sounded best in the Shogun era IMO.


----------



## Desanusor

Hi,
I just acquired a set of Fishman Classic and I want to put them on my Dullahan and being able to use the 3 voicings.
So I got space for 1 volume (pp voice 3) 1 tone (pp voice 2) and a 3 or 5 way blade switch
Problem is the diagrams offered via official site only use 3 way toggle switch and I want a 3 way blade or even better a 5 way blade with possibility to use the single coils if possible...
If a 5 way is impossible in that instance someone please help me find out how to solder this diagram just changing the 3 way toggle (LP style) to a 3 way blade.
Sorry for grammar im not English !

(YEP its the Open Core diagram but my manual contains the same diagram for the Classic)


----------



## Seabeast2000

So i have a Merrow Fluence in the bridge of a KM7 I got recently. Its not my cup of tea. Is there ANYTHING I can do to make it more interesting? I'm coming from a recent few years of BW's and EMG for the most part. I'm sure its wired for just the one voice but the other 2 voices would probably be more vinty/lower output....? I don't know. 
Wasn't there a secret treble boost or something on these that you could jumper?


----------



## Northfall

Seabeast2000 said:


> So i have a Merrow Fluence in the bridge of a KM7 I got recently. Its not my cup of tea. Is there ANYTHING I can do to make it more interesting? I'm coming from a recent few years of BW's and EMG for the most part. I'm sure its wired for just the one voice but the other 2 voices would probably be more vinty/lower output....? I don't know.
> Wasn't there a secret treble boost or something on these that you could jumper?


I can say that Fluence Moderns are significantly more workable than the Merrow pickup. I too had a KM7 for a brief stint and was completely underwhelmed by the Merrow voicings after having already been exposed to the superior Modern tones. Will be getting some Abasis today, so I'll let you know how they stack up soonish.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Seabeast2000 said:


> So i have a Merrow Fluence in the bridge of a KM7 I got recently. Its not my cup of tea. Is there ANYTHING I can do to make it more interesting? I'm coming from a recent few years of BW's and EMG for the most part. I'm sure its wired for just the one voice but the other 2 voices would probably be more vinty/lower output....? I don't know.
> Wasn't there a secret treble boost or something on these that you could jumper?



I'm assuming you got the KM Hybrid. I don't think you can change the voicing of those pickups. They only use the high-output voice.

What exactly don't you like about them though?


----------



## Northfall

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm assuming you got the KM Hybrid. I don't think you can change the voicing of those pickups. They only use the high-output voice.
> 
> What exactly don't you like about them though?



Edit: big dumb


----------



## Seabeast2000

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm assuming you got the KM Hybrid. I don't think you can change the voicing of those pickups. They only use the high-output voice.
> 
> What exactly don't you like about them though?



Thanks. 
Inexactly, its just non-descript, uninspiring I guess. No mojo or character. Not trying to bag on the brand or the model by any means. Boosted, non-boosted, I can't find my way with it. Maybe my ears are hardened for HO pups now.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Seabeast2000 said:


> Maybe my ears are hardened for HO pups now.



Lots of folks seem to think a PAF is great for heavy stuff. It works really well for some, like Joe from Gojira. There’s no arguing with his tone. 

However, like you, I’m way happier with a hot bridge pickup, and there’s a reason the vast majority of heavy tones we’re all chasing have a high output pickup involved.


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm assuming you got the KM Hybrid. I don't think you can change the voicing of those pickups. They only use the high-output voice.
> 
> What exactly don't you like about them though?



Never understood the story behind this single voice OEM Version of his signature set, neither did I have the chance to compare those to the three voiced originals, but at least the set Fishman sells as aftermarket is my absolute favorite within the whole Fluence range. Very versatile and I use all 3 voices all the time.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Seabeast2000 said:


> Thanks.
> Inexactly, its just non-descript, uninspiring I guess. No mojo or character. Not trying to bag on the brand or the model by any means. Boosted, non-boosted, I can't find my way with it. Maybe my ears are hardened for HO pups now.





Chris Bowsman said:


> Lots of folks seem to think a PAF is great for heavy stuff. It works really well for some, like Joe from Gojira. There’s no arguing with his tone.
> 
> However, like you, I’m way happier with a hot bridge pickup, and there’s a reason the vast majority of heavy tones we’re all chasing have a high output pickup involved.



Yeah for awhile I tried using lower-medium output PAF style (or hot-rodded PAF) pickups, but I always felt at home with high output, brighter passives or active pickups in general. Might be the same thing with you. 



juka said:


> Never understood the story behind this single voice OEM Version of his signature set, neither did I have the chance to compare those to the three voiced originals, but at least the set Fishman sells as aftermarket is my absolute favorite within the whole Fluence range. Very versatile and I use all 3 voices all the time.



The KM Hybrid was meant to be an even more budget friendly version of the Korean guitar. The Hybrid's like $1200 while the full-spec KM7 is $1700 - $1800. Using a single-voice pickup seemed to help reduce the costs.


----------



## IwantTacos

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah for awhile I tried using lower-medium output PAF style (or hot-rodded PAF) pickups, but I always felt at home with high output, brighter passives or active pickups in general. Might be the same thing with you.
> 
> 
> 
> The KM Hybrid was meant to be an even more budget friendly version of the Korean guitar. The Hybrid's like $1200 while the full-spec KM7 is $1700 - $1800. Using a single-voice pickup seemed to help reduce the costs.



are you sure that's what happened. I was under the impression they just didn't wire the other voices. I don't think I've heard any source say that there were two versions of the km fluence pickups.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

IwantTacos said:


> are you sure that's what happened. I was under the impression they just didn't wire the other voices. I don't think I've heard any source say that there were two versions of the km fluence pickups.



According to Keith, they're SUPPOSED to be a special-made single-voice pickup that they tweaked to fit the specs of the Hybrid (mahogany vs Swamp Ash) that were made only for the KM Hybrid. Same deal as the Fishman Fluence Epiphone Prophesy Moderns that were made only for that guitar. Made for OEM, but not available to the public.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah for awhile I tried using lower-medium output PAF style (or hot-rodded PAF) pickups, but I always felt at home with high output, brighter passives or active pickups in general. Might be the same thing with you.



I have a real 1962 Gibson Les Paul/SG (not reissue) with the original PAFs. It's easier to get a good heavy tone out of literally any other guitar of mine, all of which have hotter bridge pickups. DiMarzio Norton, Fluence Abasi, EMG 81, Duncan JB, Dimarzio Crunchlab... even the Telecaster Plus with Lace Tele pickups. Any of them are more satisfying for aggressive riffing.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Chris Bowsman said:


> I have a real 1962 Gibson Les Paul/SG (not reissue) with the original PAFs. It's easier to get a good heavy tone out of literally any other guitar of mine, all of which have hotter bridge pickups. DiMarzio Norton, Fluence Abasi, EMG 81, Duncan JB, Dimarzio Crunchlab... even the Telecaster Plus with Lace Tele pickups. Any of them are more satisfying for aggressive riffing.



All a taste thing. I recently went back and tried some PAF-style pickups and gravitated back towards my standard EMGs and blackouts.


----------



## jco5055

Any opinion on the best 6 string set if I wanted the most “organic” tone, and/or the fishman equivalent to the 57/66 set? A friend of mine who’s like “the active pickup guy” says abasis, devins, or adlers….thoughts?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jco5055 said:


> Any opinion on the best 6 string set if I wanted the most “organic” tone, and/or the fishman equivalent to the 57/66 set? A friend of mine who’s like “the active pickup guy” says abasis, devins, or adlers….thoughts?



Never tried the Adlers but I wouldn't be surprised if they're close. Classics for sure as well. 
...
Why not get a 57/66 set?


----------



## jco5055

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Never tried the Adlers but I wouldn't be surprised if they're close. Classics for sure as well.
> ...
> Why not get a 57/66 set?


I’m still considering it, just wanted to know my fishman to compare to


----------



## jco5055

Honestly I feel like fishman needs some kind of “pickup picker” option on their website like how DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan have one


----------



## elkoki

jco5055 said:


> Honestly I feel like fishman needs some kind of “pickup picker” option on their website like how DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan have one



They have lots of variety though so it makes sense for them to have one. Fishman doesn't really have that many humbucker pickups


----------



## elkoki

jco5055 said:


> Any opinion on the best 6 string set if I wanted the most “organic” tone, and/or the fishman equivalent to the 57/66 set? A friend of mine who’s like “the active pickup guy” says abasis, devins, or adlers….thoughts?



I would say the Classics are the closest to the 57/66. They're both PAF style pickups and both have alnico 5 magnets. The Abasi's are a lot more aggressive but are still very versatile. I just wouldn't use them in standard tuning.


----------



## jco5055

elkoki said:


> They have lots of variety though so it makes sense for them to have one. Fishman doesn't really have that many humbucker pickups



i think I only thought that because even with not that many options there’s so many differing opinions on the pros/cons of each pickup


----------



## jco5055

Actually, I’m sorry to post AGAIN but I should have done this first, aka actually play and compare my two guitars (a steinberger spirit with some kind of passive pickups, and a Jackson soloist 7 with I think EMG 81-7 and 60-7s)

so after comparing them, I think in a vacuum I still prefer passive, just because of the feel. What I mean is, is that the sound isn’t an issue for me, if anything I like at least the objective pros of active sounds (more clarity and the like), but when playing around as dynamically as I can, picking fast/slow/heavy/light and being as expressive as I can, it just feels like the actives are sliigghtly off compared to the 100% organic feel of the passives. Kinda like how drum purists don’t like electronic kits, at least for beginners, because even if it’s slight a person could hit riiight outside the sweet spot and they’ll hear a sweet spot hit etc

Now I ask: are there any sets you guys feel matches the feel of passives, and/or which set comes closest? I guess in my mind I imagine if playing amplified but on a completely clean setting, like when plugging direct into Logic Pro in my case, I would not be able to tell if I was playing a passive or active pickup, and with no amp
Character id not recognize what I’m playing on tone only.


----------



## Stephan

Flappydoodle said:


> Saw the Fluff/Ryan Bruce demo of the Matt Heafy pickups
> 
> Bleh. Has that squawky mid-range "cocked wah pedal" sound. Since Matt was a long-time EMG81 user, I'd hoped for something along those lines. But no, it's another ultra-tight, mid-boosted pickup like the KSE set. Shame.
> 
> Sadly Trivium's sound seems to get worse, and the latest album guitar tone is super obnoxious with all mids and not much else. They sounded best in the Shogun era IMO.


Completely agree on all points.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Unfortunately they said he didn't want to change anything about the Modern set, just wanted to make the split sound a 3rd voice.


----------



## Flappydoodle

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Unfortunately they said he didn't want to change anything about the Modern set, just wanted to make the split sound a 3rd voice.



Yeah. The modern already has quite a bit of mids. Then he's running it into a TS pedal (boost mids), 5150 amp (mid-heavy), into a cab with V30s (mid-heavy) and mic'd with a 57 (mid-heavy). No wonder it sounds the way it does haha

The clarity and feel of Fishmans is great, especially when you first play them. But I find myself getting pretty tired of the sound now.


----------



## Inguilles

Sería posible no poder instalar un fishman en una ibanez rg 652 debido a sus patas cortas??


----------



## Alberto7

Inguilles said:


> Sería posible no poder instalar un fishman en una ibanez rg 652 debido a sus patas cortas??



No conozco los detalles, pero es posible. En ese caso sólo tendrías que taladrar un par de huecos para los tornillos de los Fishman, lo cual no es una modificación muy difícil.

Por cierto, tendrás más suerte con las respuestas si posteas en inglés. La mayoría de la gente en este foro habla inglés solamente. Suerte amigo!


----------



## Inguilles

Gracias, me la jugo la tradición auténtica de la página


----------



## Inguilles

It would be possible not to be able to install a fishman on an ibanez rg 652 due to its short legs


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I got bored a while ago and made a demo of the moderns in my schecter E1 balsac with my Peters FSM.





Inguilles said:


> It would be possible not to be able to install a fishman on an ibanez rg 652 due to its short legs


measure the pickup cavity depth and the old pickup's dimensions. Then compare it to the moderns' dimensions, which should be on fishman's website. They're usually a drop in replacement for standard routes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Soooo it's finally confirmed, Keith Merrow's sig set is discontinued and he's no longer with Fishman. They finally updated the site and the page to his sig pickup is 404'd and he's not on the artist roster.

https://www.fishman.com/?post_type=portfolio&p=31589


----------



## slavboi_delight

Simon Hawemann (the actual nightmarer guy) posted something about a seymour duncan sludge and mentioned keith merrow in that post. I was intrigued.

Far fetched, i know, but kind of fits.
And he posted one of his guitars where he installed lundgrens.


----------



## praffensperger

The discontinuation of the Keith Merrow set seems a little strange to me, but I guess it's all part of the rough and tumble of product line changes, also modulated by fickle artist sponsorship. 

I feel like Fishman should include some raw DI audio demos. Graphic indications of the frequency responses would also be great, and other pickup manufacturers seem to do this. If much of the tonal character is due to the preamp shaping, then why not give us customers specifics on the frequency response? In an ideal world, Fishman could release a web app custom shop that would let you design your own pickup set and sculpt the response for each pickup on your own. And then sell you a pair for $200.  I can dream...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

slavboi_delight said:


> Simon Hawemann (the actual nightmarer guy) posted something about a seymour duncan sludge and mentioned keith merrow in that post. I was intrigued.
> 
> Far fetched, i know, but kind of fits.
> And he posted one of his guitars where he installed lundgrens.



I know he has a Duncan Zephyr in one of his Mk3s but it seems like he currently has a shit-ton of Lundgren pickups he's testing out and claims he's using them "all over" his new solo album. 



praffensperger said:


> The discontinuation of the Keith Merrow set seems a little strange to me, but I guess it's all part of the rough and tumble of product line changes, also modulated by fickle artist sponsorship.



Sounds like this was his decision to discontinue them and leave Fishman.


----------



## praffensperger

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds like this was his decision to discontinue them and leave Fishman.


Yes, so it seems in this case. To me, the Fluence range seems to use the artist-sponsored product concept more than other brands. Is this what the impression other people get, too? Hence, there's more risk of churn of the product line as a whole due to changing sponsoring artist preferences. I'm overanalyzing this for sure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Nah that 100% is the case. They have 2 base models and the rest of their lineup is based on artist's tweaks to those models.


----------



## slavboi_delight

It's probably way easier for them. There is barely any r&d. Just checking which pu they lean towards and change a few eq curves.

Keith did not work with then for long right? 4-5 years max if i recall.

Maybe revenue he got from sale numbers was not enough?
He pretty much hung up his youtube boots, which was pretty popular when he was testing and demoing with wes hauch.

This one is odd to me.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

So KM back to working for SD again?


slavboi_delight said:


> It's probably way easier for them. There is barely any r&d. Just checking which pu they lean towards and change a few eq curves.
> 
> Keith did not work with then for long right? 4-5 years max if i recall.
> 
> Maybe revenue he got from sale numbers was not enough?
> He pretty much hung up his youtube boots, which was pretty popular when he was testing and demoing with wes hauch.
> 
> This one is odd to me.



Same here, but unless KM or Fishman gives us any more details, ur guess is as good as mine. On such note, total 100% speculation on my side here, seeing how resistant Fishman was to the idea of a re-issue/updated version for the SC model (I posted the NAMM video a couple of times), and given how KM is trying the M7 now, it could be that KM requested a similar thing to his model and left after Fishman refused to do it.

Re the KM pickup shootout vids., notice they were done while he was working for SD. He stopped making them after he left. These days, he does a weekly (or so) gaming night on Discord, and posts regularly on Instagram, but u're abs. right, I really miss his videos, bummer!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Never really noticed any indication he went back to Duncan besides him putting one of his old SD's back into one of his main KM7s. He seems to be all about Lundgren rn.


----------



## juka

Not sure to what degree Keith "owns" the sonic footprint of his pups (as Fishman made quite some fuzz about his huge input in developing these in the past), but I would really hope that Fishman re-released them after a name change (may be to *K*ontemporary *M*idgain ) because they are my all time favorite Fluence.


----------



## bjjman

praffensperger said:


> I feel like Fishman should include some raw DI audio demos.



There are Fishman DIs available but they make them super hard to find. They're linked from Youtube videos on Fishman's channel, done by Ken Susi. I don't have the links, so you'd have to search them out. I found them quite helpful.


----------



## Techdeath

I'm planning to put an open core classic neck in my strandberg, keeping the modern in the bridge. Anyone know if I could achieve an abasi like switch configuration with a 5 way using these?


----------



## praffensperger

bjjman said:


> There are Fishman DIs available but they make them super hard to find. They're linked from Youtube videos on Fishman's channel, done by Ken Susi. I don't have the links, so you'd have to search them out. I found them quite helpful.


You're right, and I think I've even listened to some of these. I seem to remember not every pickup set was included or something like that?


----------



## bjjman

praffensperger said:


> You're right, and I think I've even listened to some of these. I seem to remember not every pickup set was included or something like that?


If I remember correctly (and quite possibly I don't) there were individual videos for each set and there were then links to the DIs for that set in the video.


----------



## juka

Techdeath said:


> I'm planning to put an open core classic neck in my strandberg, keeping the modern in the bridge. Anyone know if I could achieve an abasi like switch configuration with a 5 way using these?


No, as the moderns still lack the V3/SC Voice


----------



## praffensperger

juka said:


> No, as the moderns still lack the V3/SC Voice


While the moderns lack a single coil voice, it might be possible to use the coil tap & hot pins on the modern to achieve something similar. 

I'm thinking aloud here, so please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this:
- We've got a classic open coil neck & a modern bridge
- With enough relatively ordinary switching you can already get bridge HB, neck HB, bridge HB + neck HB, and neck single outer coil already. That covers 4 of 5 of the Abasi switching options. 
- You still need to get both inner coils single coil voice, though.
- The modern has no V3/SC voice as juka correctly points out.
- The classic does have a V3/SC voice, maybe we can use that.
- If we wire the bridge north coil to the neck south coil and then select the neck single coil output (and take the output of the neck pickup preamp), then probably this will be a sound similar to the Abasi dual inner coils -- but! That would be both outer coils instead of both inner coils. 
- In the end juka is correct, although a slight variation may be possible.

If having the outer coils together is ok, then you can get there by setting the neck pickup single coil mode select to "neck" with the solder pad, then ground the "CT" solder pad on the bridge pickup and connect the "SCO" pad of the neck pickup to the "hot" pad on the bridge pickup. All this is pretty complicated and it would take some crazy routing with a super switch to achieve all this -- in the best case. You might need some extra switches. I haven't puzzled that part out yet.

I haven't tried this, so please don't confuse this idea with anything similar to 'advice.' It's a wild idea, so please critique, or let us all know if you try it and it works. (If you fry your pickups in the process, then please don't blame me!)

For those of you experimenting and considering different Fluence pickups, I wrote some about my experience here https://factionrock.blogspot.com/2021/03/getting-most-out-of-your-fishman.html I hope this is of use to some. I've since done even more experimenting that didn't make it into the write up.


----------



## praffensperger

Oh and I should mention that much of the weird wiring can be avoided if you use a Matt Heafy pickup instead of a Modern. The Heafy ones have a single coil voice and selectable inner or outer coils via solder pads, like the classic open core ones, so you can get both inner coils that way.

I should also say that I'm not sure how much hum bucking you'd get when you mix and match models and use both inner or both outer coils.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

@praffensperger Yes u can, and I have done it b4 both for the moderns and the SC model. This is not going to be comparable to what u get w/ a dedicated voice, e.g. V3 on the Tosins, basically boils down to this:
- The split coils (inner/outer) will have the same preamp setting as whichever voice u're on, but with less power, slightly more brightness, and with single coil hum if it's just 1 pickup being split (so u'll prob. need a noise gate).
- The V3, say on the Tosins or KSE, is a totally different preamp setting. It sounds uncannily similar to a single-coil, much brighter, very similar to tele's single coil tones.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, not at all, I love the coil splits on the SC model, just adjust your expectations accordingly .


----------



## mfarrah3045

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the modern set- 1 volume, 1 tone, 9 volt battery, and 3 way toggle? Fishman’s website has it for a 3 way blade and the rechargeable battery pack, and it seems pretty different to what I have. The diagram for the Gibson style uses a toggle and 9 volt, but that’s for 2 volume and 2 tone knobs.


----------



## CanserDYI

Does buying a single pup from fishman include electronics like the sets do? Only need one.

Also, the 8 string open core classics, are they any decent for pushing front end of an amp? I like tight bass response, hifi sounding high end, nice and bright, any input on if these will fit that bill?


----------



## omglolnub

A noob question to ask:

how close to the sound of an actual single coil does position 3 of the fluence sets sound like? It’s difficult to get a hand on guitars with them equipped in stores and a/b them versus a strat, in all the 5 pickup selections of a single coil Strat 

I know this sounds like sacrilege, but I’m considering equipping an H-S-H guitar with a set of fluences to thin my guitar herd a bunch. I’m not really a strat or tele guy and if I can get those sounds on a guitar I enjoy playing more and find more comfortable…I just might do it


----------



## IwantTacos

omglolnub said:


> A noob question to ask:
> 
> how close to the sound of an actual single coil does position 3 of the fluence sets sound like? It’s difficult to get a hand on guitars with them equipped in stores and a/b them versus a strat, in all the 5 pickup selections of a single coil Strat
> 
> I know this sounds like sacrilege, but I’m considering equipping an H-S-H guitar with a set of fluences to thin my guitar herd a bunch. I’m not really a strat or tele guy and if I can get those sounds on a guitar I enjoy playing more and find more comfortable…I just might do it



depending on the set...it's very close.


----------



## omglolnub

IwantTacos said:


> depending on the set...it's very close.



interesting! I was looking at the classics (probably with the covers) and then not sure if I should get the active or passive single coil in the middle. Unless there’s a different set you had in mind


----------



## IwantTacos

omglolnub said:


> interesting! I was looking at the classics (probably with the covers) and then not sure if I should get the active or passive single coil in the middle. Unless there’s a different set you had in mind




if you want to do hsh you have to use an active single in the middle unless you want to do some really weird wiring. 

make sure you get the revised classics with the v3 preamp.


----------



## omglolnub

IwantTacos said:


> if you want to do hsh you have to use an active single in the middle unless you want to do some really weird wiring.
> 
> make sure you get the revised classics with the v3 preamp.



Ah, ok - active single coil in the middle it is! And sounds good on getting the revised classics, I think that set will be fine. Thanks so much for your info!

Just gotta decide if I really wanna do this. I have a 1995 American Standard Strat and a 2012 AVRI ‘58 Tele just sitting in cases and don’t really play them, but keep them around as tone options for recording things. But if I can get an H-S-H guitar that I really like and it can do those position 2 and 4 Strat clean tones, the snarly tele bridge tone with overdrive/distortion, and the warm neck only single coil clean tone…then yeah I think I might do it


----------



## praffensperger

CanserDYI said:


> Does buying a single pup from fishman include electronics like the sets do? Only need one.


If you're buying new, then I think the answer is yes. Years ago when I bought a single SSA pickup, it came with wiring and at least one pot (probably two). If you order from Sweetwater (for example purposes only), then you can look at the pictures to see what's included (usually). Other online stores are probably similar. You should check.


----------



## juka

Had to focus on other areas of my life lately, so please excuse me if I missed something,
but has there been any recent(!) statement from Fishman/Ken Susi/Frank Albo or anybody else close to the Fluence line regarding the discontinuation of the Keith Merrow set or about the possibility that those pups might reemerge without his name again some time in the future?
Without being a huge fan of Keith Merrow, his music or the pickup designs he formerly was associated with, I really liked his Fluence set. Having tested almost the whole Fluence range, they turned out to be my all time favorites among the line and I would be really sorry to seem them disappear completely.


----------



## IwantTacos

juka said:


> Had to focus on other areas of my life lately, so please excuse me if I missed something,
> but has there been any recent(!) statement from Fishman/Ken Susi/Frank Albo or anybody else close to the Fluence line regarding the discontinuation of the Keith Merrow set or about the possibility that those pups might reemerge without his name again some time in the future?
> Without being a huge fan of Keith Merrow, his music or the pickup designs he formerly was associated with, I really liked his Fluence set. Having tested almost the whole Fluence range, they turned out to be my all time favorites among the line and I would be really sorry to seem them disappear completely.



they aren’t going to say shit and there’s a 95 percent chance ken calls you a fucking idiot. Fuck that guy.


----------



## juka

IwantTacos said:


> they aren’t going to say shit and there’s a 95 percent chance ken calls you a fucking idiot. Fuck that guy.



Is that you, Keith?


----------



## juka

Any opinions/hands-on experience with the Javier Reyes Signatures?
These are among the very few Fluence I haven't had a chance to check out and reviews of them are really hard to find.
Could get a used set for a very reasonable price, but not so low that I would buy unseen (or unheard in this case).


----------



## thorgan

juka said:


> Any opinions/hands-on experience with the Javier Reyes Signatures?
> These are among the very few Fluence I haven't had a chance to check out and reviews of them are really hard to find.
> Could get a used set for a very reasonable price, but not so low that I would buy unseen (or unheard in this case).


I really like mine (7 string set) about 8 months into having them, no second thoughts about switching back to other pickups in the guitar I have them in, they are the only fluence set I've had experience with so I can't compare to others, but definitely do not have the crazy mid/high spike I've found other "modern style" pickups to have (alpha/omega looking at you), I'd say they're a very "full" and "warm" sounding pickup, at least in terms of "metal" pickups. They sound good with lots of settings, definitely not a pickup that needs to be tweaked exactly for it to do it's one thing, if you like versatile passives you'd probably like them. Split and clean tones are great, and can definitely get heavy; but if you're looking for a super tight surgical djenty pickup I'd say there are better options, it's version of heavy is more a classic, palm mute chug, brute force kind of sound. The most impressive thing about this set is it's ability to stay very clear even with a warm tone, if you play with your fingers they can really reward you, I've been meaning to put together some sounds for them and I'll try to get to that this week. All in all if you listen to Javier's playing, especially in Mestis, these are very tailored to that type of sound, so if you like that sound this is a huge step towards it, and they seem to be a sharp left turn from the other fluences I've heard, in all the right ways in my opinion. I'd probably grab them if they were used just because they are pretty uncommon, and it's better than buying new since you'd probably get to forgo dealing with fishmans customer service.


----------



## ExplorerMike

Finally had time to install the Matt Heafy Custom Modern 7 string set in my Jackson. First time having to do some light routing of the pickup cavities, didn’t come out perfect but I’m not concerned. That guitar is for all my learning projects. Overall I’m very happy with the Heafy set. My first exposure to Fishmans was the Moderns in my Schecter Balsac and I really liked them a lot, and the cleans blew me away. I was hoping these Heafys were essentially the 7 string version of that and I’m happy to report they are. Cleans are killer with some nice variety with the coil split/V3 Matt added.

I completely gutted the Jackson except for the 3 way blade switch and wired in the Fishmans for all three voices. It gets pretty busy with all the wires but overall it really wasn’t that hard, as long as you keep it all straight.

The wiring right before buttoning it up. 



All done and back together.


----------



## Axiom451

What do you prefer:
Fishman Fluence Modern 
Or
Fishman Keith Merrow Set

And why?


----------



## elkoki

ExplorerMike said:


> Finally had time to install the Matt Heafy Custom Modern 7 string set in my Jackson. First time having to do some light routing of the pickup cavities, didn’t come out perfect but I’m not concerned. That guitar is for all my learning projects. Overall I’m very happy with the Heafy set. My first exposure to Fishmans was the Moderns in my Schecter Balsac and I really liked them a lot, and the cleans blew me away. I was hoping these Heafys were essentially the 7 string version of that and I’m happy to report they are. Cleans are killer with some nice variety with the coil split/V3 Matt added.
> 
> I completely gutted the Jackson except for the 3 way blade switch and wired in the Fishmans for all three voices. It gets pretty busy with all the wires but overall it really wasn’t that hard, as long as you keep it all straight.
> 
> The wiring right before buttoning it up.
> View attachment 103847
> 
> 
> All done and back together.
> View attachment 103848


Jackson actually makes a JS22-7 with soapbar cavities, so just to anyone out there, if you're looking to buy and mod this guitar, look into which model you buy , it'll make upgrading the pickups easier.


----------



## juka

AxiomXIII said:


> What do you prefer:
> Fishman Fluence Modern
> Or
> Fishman Keith Merrow Set
> 
> And why?


Keith Merrow set by far, because with them I actually use all 3 voices all of the time.

It's the most versatile Fluence set I had so far (Moderns, Townsends, Merrows, Abasis, Classics).
Really sorry that they are no longer built ;-(


----------



## Axiom451

juka said:


> Keith Merrow set by far, because with them I actually use all 3 voices all of the time.
> 
> It's the most versatile Fluence set I had so far (Moderns, Townsends, Merrows, Abasis, Classics).
> Really sorry that they are no longer built ;-(


There's an old Km7 MkII with Fishman Keith Merrows that can I get for relatively cheap brand new.
So you would recommend them?


----------



## juka

AxiomXIII said:


> There's an old Km7 MkII with Fishman Keith Merrows that can I get for relatively cheap brand new.
> So you would recommend them?


I can highly recommend the pups (although it's always a matter of personal taste), but I can't comment on the guitar, because I haven't played one yet.
If you're a fan of Ola Englund, he did a review of a Schecter KM guitar some time ago and the pups were what impressed him most if I remember correctly.


----------



## ExplorerMike

elkoki said:


> Jackson actually makes a JS22-7 with soapbar cavities, so just to anyone out there, if you're looking to buy and mod this guitar, look into which model you buy , it'll make upgrading the pickups easier.


100% agreed. These would have dropped right in to the other version of the JS22-7, but I wanted the maple board when I bought this one. Good point!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Anyone tried the new Mcrocklin set? Is it available for purchase or only thru Kiesel when u buy the Mcrocklin sig.?


----------



## juka

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Anyone tried the new Mcrocklin set? Is it available for purchase or only thru Kiesel when u buy the Mcrocklin sig.?


Atm only by buying his Kiesel sig.

My gut feeling after following the story around his pups since the very beginning is that they will not become available separately because for Fishman they are just "regular" Open Core Classics (with an ever so slightly modified (=brighter) Voice 3) in a very odd color (although I like it).

Think of it like this: The "oddly colored" Open Core Classics they built for the Charvel Satchel model (and that's where they probably have the purple bobbins from) never been available separately either.


----------



## mikelikesmetal

elkoki said:


> Jackson actually makes a JS22-7 with soapbar cavities, so just to anyone out there, if you're looking to buy and mod this guitar, look into which model you buy , it'll make upgrading the pickups easier.


i bought a js227 about a year ago and i’m looking to upgrade the pickups. torn between a set of dave davidson’s signature dimarzios or a set of fishmans. my only concern is the actual swap itself. how do i know if i have the one that makes swapping to fishmans easier??


----------



## elkoki

mikelikesmetak said:


> i bought a js227 about a year ago and i’m looking to upgrade the pickups. torn between a set of dave davidson’s signature dimarzios or a set of fishmans. my only concern is the actual swap itself. how do i know if i have the one that makes swapping to fishmans easier??


Just gotta look at your current pickups. Are they soapbar style or traditional? Soapbar pickups look like this. Most Fluence pickups come in soapbar and in the traditional look , so you'll be ok with most of their stuff just choose the correct one. But some Fluence's don't (at the time of writing this) like the Stephen Carpenter 7 string pickups and the Matt Heafy ones only come in a soapbar. So if you guitar isn't routed for it you will have to widen the pickup slots(like the guy above did). Personally I would make my pickup choice based around what could fit in it and avoid modifying the body. I don't think Dimarzio makes any 7 string soapbars so if you have that type of pickup Dimarzio will be out of the question. Seymour Duncan does have all sizings though, just throwing it out there


----------



## mikelikesmetal

elkoki said:


> Just gotta look at your current pickups. Are they soapbar style or traditional? Soapbar pickups look like this. Most Fluence pickups come in soapbar and in the traditional look , so you'll be ok with most of their stuff just choose the correct one. But some Fluence's don't (at the time of writing this) like the Stephen Carpenter 7 string pickups and the Matt Heafy ones only come in a soapbar. So if you guitar isn't routed for it you will have to widen the pickup slots(like the guy above did). Personally I would make my pickup choice based around what could fit in it and avoid modifying the body. I don't think Dimarzio makes any 7 string soapbars so if you have that type of pickup Dimarzio will be out of the question. Seymour Duncan does have all sizings though, just throwing it out there





elkoki said:


> Just gotta look at your current pickups. Are they soapbar style or traditional? Soapbar pickups look like this. Most Fluence pickups come in soapbar and in the traditional look , so you'll be ok with most of their stuff just choose the correct one. But some Fluence's don't (at the time of writing this) like the Stephen Carpenter 7 string pickups and the Matt Heafy ones only come in a soapbar. So if you guitar isn't routed for it you will have to widen the pickup slots(like the guy above did). Personally I would make my pickup choice based around what could fit in it and avoid modifying the body. I don't think Dimarzio makes any 7 string soapbars so if you have that type of pickup Dimarzio will be out of the question. Seymour Duncan does have all sizings though, just throwing it out there


my guitar looks like this one. i’m not 100% sure but you seem like you know what you’re talking about. are these soap box’s or no?


----------



## elkoki

mikelikesmetal said:


> my guitar looks like this one. i’m not 100% sure but you seem like you know what you’re talking about. are these soap box’s or no?


Yeah those are soap bar pickups . As far as I know Dimarzio doesnt have any 7 string soapbar pickups .


----------



## elkoki

mikelikesmetal said:


> my guitar looks like this one. i’m not 100% sure but you seem like you know what you’re talking about. are these soap box’s or no?


to simplify it, this is the soapbar one https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackso...ar-Black-1500000240740.gc?rNtt=js22-7&index=3

and this is the one with the traditional style pickups https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackson/Dinky-JS22-7-DKA-HT-Arch-Top-Satin-7-String-Electric-Guitar.gc

Notice how the traditional style pickups have pickup rings and the soapbar ones are direct mounted into the body and are also wider. A problem people will make is buy the wrong type of pickup for the routes on their guitar. Just make sure you buy the right type and you'll be fine, you'll save time and won't have to deal with any hassles. I personally would not want to widen the routes or modify my guitar in any major way over pickups the way the guy above did. No offense to him


----------



## mikelikesmetal

elkoki said:


> to simplify it, this is the soapbar one https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackso...ar-Black-1500000240740.gc?rNtt=js22-7&index=3
> 
> and this is the one with the traditional style pickups https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackson/Dinky-JS22-7-DKA-HT-Arch-Top-Satin-7-String-Electric-Guitar.gc
> 
> Notice how the traditional style pickups have pickup rings and the soapbar ones are direct mounted into the body and are also wider. A problem people will make is buy the wrong type of pickup for the routes on their guitar. Just make sure you buy the right type and you'll be fine, you'll save time and won't have to deal with any hassles. I personally would not want to widen the routes or modify my guitar in any major way over pickups the way the guy above did. No offense to him


are these soapbars? i always just thought that it was a pickup cover on my guitar.


----------



## ExplorerMike

elkoki said:


> to simplify it, this is the soapbar one https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackso...ar-Black-1500000240740.gc?rNtt=js22-7&index=3
> 
> and this is the one with the traditional style pickups https://www.guitarcenter.com/Jackson/Dinky-JS22-7-DKA-HT-Arch-Top-Satin-7-String-Electric-Guitar.gc
> 
> Notice how the traditional style pickups have pickup rings and the soapbar ones are direct mounted into the body and are also wider. A problem people will make is buy the wrong type of pickup for the routes on their guitar. Just make sure you buy the right type and you'll be fine, you'll save time and won't have to deal with any hassles. I personally would not want to widen the routes or modify my guitar in any major way over pickups the way the guy above did. No offense to him



No offense taken, it was the hard way to go for sure haha. I think the same way you do normally but had bought that Jackson to mess around with and modify so I didn’t worry about it too much. Other than that guitar I’ll probably never do that again.


----------



## elkoki

mikelikesmetal said:


> are these soapbars? i always just thought that it was a pickup cover on my guitar.


No that's just a pickup with a cover. Soap bars have mounting holes basically on the body of the pickup. They're also called active mounts. https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/78-string-soapbar-size-now-available


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mikelikesmetal said:


> are these soapbars? i always just thought that it was a pickup cover on my guitar.


 Soapbars are EMG 707-sized pickups. Basically those pickups that make installing proper passive-sized pickups an ordeal.







The one in your picture is just a covered pickup. 

If you can't see tabs, they're soapbars.


----------



## mikelikesmetal

elkoki said:


> No that's just a pickup with a cover. Soap bars have mounting holes basically on the body of the pickup. They're also called active mounts. https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/78-string-soapbar-size-now-available





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Soapbars are EMG 707-sized pickups. Basically those pickups that make installing proper passive-sized pickups an ordeal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one in your picture is just a covered pickup.
> 
> If you can't see tabs, they're soapbars.


thanks for your help guys, saved me from buying the wrong size pickups!


----------



## mikelikesmetal

also can anybody tell me how the wiring works on pickups? do i have to buy a pickup that is specifically for being wired to a 1 vol 1 tone 3 way switch setup it will any pickup wire to any configuration? specifically for fishmans, that’s the pickup i’m probably going to go with, they seem very versatile and all the demos i’ve heard sound amazing!


----------



## elkoki

mikelikesmetal said:


> also can anybody tell me how the wiring works on pickups? do i have to buy a pickup that is specifically for being wired to a 1 vol 1 tone 3 way switch setup it will any pickup wire to any configuration? specifically for fishmans, that’s the pickup i’m probably going to go with, they seem very versatile and all the demos i’ve heard sound amazing!


All pickups can be pretty much be wired into any guitar . Most pickup companies have diagrams on their sites, Fishman included.


----------



## mikelikesmetal

elkoki said:


> All pickups can be pretty much be wired into any guitar . Most pickup companies have diagrams on their sites, Fishman included.


thanks a bunch, man, i appreciate the help


----------



## SCJR

Stupid question but has anyone ever covered any of their open cores? Was thinking about changing out the old Moderns for a JR set but I'd want to at least approximate how it looks now.

Would you have to solder the covers for these as you would on any passive pickup?


----------



## elkoki

SCJR said:


> Stupid question but has anyone ever covered any of their open cores? Was thinking about changing out the old Moderns for a JR set but I'd want to at least approximate how it looks now.
> 
> Would you have to solder the covers for these as you would on any passive pickup?


I may be wrong but I think that's not possible.. normally you ground the pickup cover onto the baseplate of the pickup, Fluence pickups have a pcb underneath them. Best ask Fishmans customer support .


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SCJR said:


> Stupid question but has anyone ever covered any of their open cores? Was thinking about changing out the old Moderns for a JR set but I'd want to at least approximate how it looks now.
> 
> Would you have to solder the covers for these as you would on any passive pickup?





elkoki said:


> I may be wrong but I think that's not possible.. normally you ground the pickup cover onto the baseplate of the pickup, Fluence pickups have a pcb underneath them. Best ask Fishmans customer support .


Don't forget you'd need something to prevent the cover from vibrating and causing feedback. Double stick tape is reversable at least.

Also as for the ground issue, this would probably be janky and I don't even know if this'll work * PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG!!!!*, but you can PROBABLY tap off the ground prong on the 3-pin connector prong. Solder a small wire from the ground prong onto the pickup cover edge.


----------



## PK317

Does anyone here have Tosin Abasi set? I put it recently on one of my guitars and it has some weird "shhhhhh" noise. Not a ground noise, it sounds differently, more like a hiss. Also Voice 3 (coil split) seems to receive all the radio frequencies from around , I have a Tele with passive single coils with no shielding whatsoever, and it literally much quieter than Fishman. I will go over the wiring once again soon, just to check it, though I followed the diagram, checked all the ground continuity etc.
I don't have a lot of experience with active pickups, but I thought that it should eliminate all the ground noise and be pretty much silent. I could be wrong here, of course


----------



## elkoki

PK317 said:


> Does anyone here have Tosin Abasi set? I put it recently on one of my guitars and it has some weird "shhhhhh" noise. Not a ground noise, it sounds differently, more like a hiss. Also Voice 3 (coil split) seems to receive all the radio frequencies from around , I have a Tele with passive single coils with no shielding whatsoever, and it literally much quieter than Fishman. I will go over the wiring once again soon, just to check it, though I followed the diagram, checked all the ground continuity etc.
> I don't have a lot of experience with active pickups, but I thought that it should eliminate all the ground noise and be pretty much silent. I could be wrong here, of course


I have them, they're silent on humbucking mode. Maybe you're having a wiring problem


----------



## ExplorerMike

PK317 said:


> Does anyone here have Tosin Abasi set? I put it recently on one of my guitars and it has some weird "shhhhhh" noise. Not a ground noise, it sounds differently, more like a hiss. Also Voice 3 (coil split) seems to receive all the radio frequencies from around , I have a Tele with passive single coils with no shielding whatsoever, and it literally much quieter than Fishman. I will go over the wiring once again soon, just to check it, though I followed the diagram, checked all the ground continuity etc.
> I don't have a lot of experience with active pickups, but I thought that it should eliminate all the ground noise and be pretty much silent. I could be wrong here, of course


Double check your wiring, you may have missed a jumper somewhere. When I installed the MKH set a little while ago I installed everything according to the wiring diagram and it was very noisy/buzzy when I first plugged it in. Kinda like a high gain amp with no noise gate sort of noise. I went back over the diagram and realized I missed a jumper wire between the volume and tone pots. It was on the diagram in a spot where it was easy to miss it due to a bunch of other wires in the same spot. I soldered that last wire in and they are dead quiet now. Could be something like that.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

PK317 said:


> Does anyone here have Tosin Abasi set? I put it recently on one of my guitars and it has some weird "shhhhhh" noise. Not a ground noise, it sounds differently, more like a hiss. Also Voice 3 (coil split) seems to receive all the radio frequencies from around , I have a Tele with passive single coils with no shielding whatsoever, and it literally much quieter than Fishman. I will go over the wiring once again soon, just to check it, though I followed the diagram, checked all the ground continuity etc.
> I don't have a lot of experience with active pickups, but I thought that it should eliminate all the ground noise and be pretty much silent. I could be wrong here, of course


Unlike other actives, Fishman seems to recommend grounding the bridge. Make sure you did that.


----------



## PK317

elkoki said:


> I have them, they're silent on humbucking mode. Maybe you're having a wiring problem


What about Single coil voice? Silent as well?


ExplorerMike said:


> Double check your wiring, you may have missed a jumper somewhere. When I installed the MKH set a little while ago I installed everything according to the wiring diagram and it was very noisy/buzzy when I first plugged it in. Kinda like a high gain amp with no noise gate sort of noise. I went back over the diagram and realized I missed a jumper wire between the volume and tone pots. It was on the diagram in a spot where it was easy to miss it due to a bunch of other wires in the same spot. I soldered that last wire in and they are dead quiet now. Could be something like that.


Will go over the wiring once again soon. They have different wiring instructions for this set, like "Fishman preferred wiring" and then "Abasi preferred wiring" and then some other wiring. Kind of confusing.


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Unlike other actives, Fishman seems to recommend grounding the bridge. Make sure you did that.


Yeah, the bridge is grounded


----------



## elkoki

PK317 said:


> What about Single coil voice? Silent as well?
> 
> Will go over the wiring once again soon. They have different wiring instructions for this set, like "Fishman preferred wiring" and then "Abasi preferred wiring" and then some other wiring. Kind of confusing.
> 
> Yeah, the bridge is grounded


No , the single coil is a bit noisy for me, humbucking is pretty much silent. Except I have noticed that the neck on most Fluence pickups I've tried have a very very slight hiss on humbucker mode , I've heard of other people having the same thing though so I guess it's normal.


----------



## cmpxchg

Finally did the low gain thing on my Moderns. I like it! It's different, not as "yep that's a boosted pickup," but I can still boost if I want ludicrous output and it works much better for lower gain tones.


----------



## elkoki

Does the tone of Fluece's change / suffer as the battery loses power? Would buying a battery pack keep the tone more consistent ?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

elkoki said:


> Does the tone of Fluece's change / suffer as the battery loses power? Would buying a battery pack keep the tone more consistent ?


only when the battery is really close to dying. Rechargeable batteries are an easy option. I use the tenergy rechargeable ones and they work great tbh


----------



## mrvomit

Hi! need a bit of help with a wiring with fluence modern .
Ordered and in the way a set of moderns to try in my Dean at the place of the 707 though i did read mixed reviews about
( a reverb deal ).

If i dig them , do any of you happen to have the wiring for : 1 Switch 5-way + 1 Volume push/pull ? No tone pot.
in Their site i found a similar wiring only for classics that includes voice 3 , no other for 1v + 1 switch.
I would like to use use vol pot /pull just for voice changing , and the switch for something i am familiar like :
Br series , split outers , split inner coils , parallel neck ,series neck .
Series / parallels being the most important but at least a split .Still have to look for a suitable switch ( will be a sort of superswitch i suppose) 

Modern bridge ceramic expecially has mixed reviews i see , perhaps debated with if hf tilt or -6db brought some peace of mind.
wil try also the Alnico one before to rewire.
ps: Also ( as info) i cannot find a correct labeled output /db for any ( not for emgs either btw)


----------



## IwantTacos

mrvomit said:


> Hi! need a bit of help with a wiring with fluence modern .
> Ordered and in the way a set of moderns to try in my Dean at the place of the 707 though i did read mixed reviews about
> ( a reverb deal ).
> 
> If i dig them , do any of you happen to have the wiring for : 1 Switch 5-way + 1 Volume push/pull ? No tone pot.
> in Their site i found a similar wiring only for classics that includes voice 3 , no other for 1v + 1 switch.
> I would like to use use vol pot /pull just for voice changing , and the switch for something i am familiar like :
> Br series , split outers , split inner coils , parallel neck ,series neck .
> Series / parallels being the most important but at least a split .Still have to look for a suitable switch ( will be a sort of superswitch i suppose)
> 
> Modern bridge ceramic expecially has mixed reviews i see , perhaps debated with if hf tilt or -6db brought some peace of mind.
> wil try also the Alnico one before to rewire.
> ps: Also ( as info) i cannot find a correct labeled output /db for any ( not for emgs either btw)


You need a 5 way super switch. Then you can do one pot for the voicing. Can’t do it in a normal switch.


----------



## mrvomit

IwantTacos said:


> You need a 5 way super switch. Then you can do one pot for the voicing. Can’t do it in a normal switch.


thank you i' m quite sure i need a superswitch or similar , it's the wiring that i dont find : for 1 vol +1 pot push pull .
Found only wiring for "classics " which involves voice 3 with that configuration , and moderns with an "Oak gisby superswitch 5-way " + very different config. though Someone who knows could figure out from those perhaps? .
Parallel not possible , split yes , i dont care much about both" full on" , just not digging hum noise .Here the closest i found :



https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Classic-Open-Core-HH-Custom-2-1xV-5-way-Super-Switch-9V.pdf





https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Modern-Humbucker-Pair-Powerbridge-5-way-Super-Switch.pdf


----------



## hensh!n

elkoki said:


> No , the single coil is a bit noisy for me, humbucking is pretty much silent. Except I have noticed that the neck on most Fluence pickups I've tried have a very very slight hiss on humbucker mode , I've heard of other people having the same thing though so I guess it's normal.



I can confirm this as well. In addition, the split coil sounds have tons of hiss/noise. Even more than some of the traditional single coils I have. From my experience the Fishman pickups aren't "noiseless", or even "very low noise". I have a Steinberger Spirit with OEM Steinberger (EMG) Pickups with a lower noise floor. While they are "less compressed" than EMG's they are also quite a bit hotter, perhaps similar to the SD Blackouts, which sound like an active pickup with a built-in overdrive.


----------



## mrvomit

Looks i found something , posting here in case someone need it later on
( Fluence 1 vol push pull for voices , 1 x 5-way super switch Dimarzio with split supposedly hum canceling for people bothering about noise like me )








Fluence_moderns_wiring_1pot_1switch


Fishman Fluence modern : 5 way super switch dimarzio 4 pole for pickup switching adding split coils pairs , 1 push pull pot vol 25k for voice changing .




ibb.co





Actually to do that easier ( i THINK , not sure ) : you have to look at left bottom Pad connector-wires as normal 2 wires ( + ground picked from another spot left up ) before to look elsewhere , doing wiring thinking like that ,then proceeding as you would do with every other pickup set with those wires in mind.
And then , separately , later on, look at the right upper section connections considering them just like "switches" ( 2 connection for every option) to be added where you need .
Well dunno , at least i found that one so shared it .
____


----------



## PK317

hensh!n said:


> I can confirm this as well. In addition, the split coil sounds have tons of hiss/noise. Even more than some of the traditional single coils I have. From my experience the Fishman pickups aren't "noiseless", or even "very low noise". I have a Steinberger Spirit with OEM Steinberger (EMG) Pickups with a lower noise floor. While they are "less compressed" than EMG's they are also quite a bit hotter, perhaps similar to the SD Blackouts, which sound like an active pickup with a built-in overdrive.


Right, I redid my wiring, so most of the noise is gone, but there is still this hiss in humbucking mode, that sounds like a preamp noise, I guess. It's barely noticeable, though. 
Single coils are noisy, not as noisy as my passive telecaster, but a bit noisier than DiMarzio DP422 BK Injector that I recently installed in other guitar. And they are super bright! Anyway, I like the sound of Fishmans and I consider getting myself another set in near future.


----------



## elkoki

mrvomit said:


> Looks i found something , posting here in case someone need it later on
> ( Fluence 1 vol push pull for voices , 1 x 5-way super switch Dimarzio with split supposedly hum canceling for people bothering about noise like me )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fluence_moderns_wiring_1pot_1switch
> 
> 
> Fishman Fluence modern : 5 way super switch dimarzio 4 pole for pickup switching adding split coils pairs , 1 push pull pot vol 25k for voice changing .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibb.co
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually to do that easier ( i THINK , not sure ) : you have to look at left bottom Pad connector-wires as normal 2 wires ( + ground picked from another spot left up ) before to look elsewhere , doing wiring thinking like that ,then proceeding as you would do with every other pickup set with those wires in mind.
> And then , separately , later on, look at the right upper section connections considering them just like "switches" ( 2 connection for every option) to be added where you need .
> Well dunno , at least i found that one so shared it .
> ____



I wasn't complaining about noise, was just saying the single coil mode DOES hum but the humbucking mode is pretty much silent to me.


----------



## elkoki

KnightBrolaire said:


> only when the battery is really close to dying. Rechargeable batteries are an easy option. I use the tenergy rechargeable ones and they work great tbh


I was able to get an open box deal on a Fluence battery pack for $40 shipped . Normally it’s $100. I already have a guitar with a battery compartment , so does it seem pointless to add it on ? I guess I can hold onto it and use it for another guitar in the future . Didn’t want to pass up on the deal though


----------



## mrvomit

elkoki said:


> I wasn't complaining about noise, was just saying the single coil mode DOES hum but the humbucking mode is pretty much silent to me.


Good! i was not answering to you though . I just found a wiring i did not find here nor official which i was looking for ( and did ask about the message before ) and posted it here so everyone else could have if in need someday ;cheers
___________________
_________
ps:did not read abut but s coils matter here ..but unless you did not investigate for dummy coils and similar stuff presen in your pickup , 
s -Coils Must hum ,shielded or not. it's s like that if not counterphased( but in that case are not true s-coils). Also about "more or less hum ", difficult to state for everybody else : since hum takes noise from OUTSIDE sources( for his 50/60hz cycles) there's a lot of differece from the room / rehearsal rooms you are in . Not even mentioning difference between " plugins or in a rehersal chair" versus "rehearse room full of turned on gear". Have a nice day!


----------



## lewstherin006

Did a video putting the 7 string Tosins and Merrows against each other! Both are very different pickups!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ben's teasing a new "top secret" set of Fishman pickups. 



Also sweet guitar with a ***proper*** bevel.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

^Saw that too. He later denied they’re the Fluff ones. 

Based on the Open Cores. Satchel sigs maybe?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kyle Jordan said:


> ^Saw that too. He later denied they’re the Fluff ones.
> 
> Based on the Open Cores. Satchel sigs maybe?


I think the Fluff ones are gonna be Modern-housed so yeah not surprised. 


Some other things he said are this is "Standard" series (not Custom series and MAYBE not Signature series?), something "completely different" (FWIW he was responding to someone asking if these were the Fluff pickups or something else, so I'm not sure if that's "completely different" than the Fluffs or in general), and they AREN'T high output pickups.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Hmm. Considering the Classics/Open Core Classics cover vintage and hot rod pups, I’m at a bit of a loss. 

Maybe OCCs with ceramic magnets but still lower output? Kind of like a Duncan Custom or BKP Cold Sweat?


----------



## juka

Kyle Jordan said:


> Hmm. Considering the Classics/Open Core Classics cover vintage and hot rod pups, I’m at a bit of a loss.
> 
> Maybe OCCs with ceramic magnets but still lower output? Kind of like a Duncan Custom or BKP Cold Sweat?


Don't forget they have already covered the higher output open core design with the Javier Reyes sigs, although they don't appear to have been a big hit so far. The Keith Merrow pups on the other hand were quite a success, so maybe they are not willing to throw that design away just because they have parted ways with him.
So my best goes would be rebranded Merrows and my second best guess would be McRocklins in standard color, because there have been voices telling that if those ever would be made available to the masses than not in purple but in a more mass friendly color (which I would regret very much, because we really need more color options on Fishman!!!).


----------



## Kyle Jordan

^Yeah I had thought of the possibility of them being Merrows just not by name and perhaps with a tweaked neck that isn't just a Classic. Maybe call them "Contemperary" or something since they already use Modern with their covered, blade pole pickups.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

i hope they're willie adlers in a color other than gold. Seriously, how the fuck have they never released the adlers in black.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm under the assumption with everything that was said, that these will be another low-output PAF variant. Would be cool if it's a Classic but with a PAF voice and a P90 voice.


----------



## juka

Kyle Jordan said:


> ^Yeah I had thought of the possibility of them being Merrows just not by name and perhaps with a tweaked neck that isn't just a Classic. Maybe call them "Contemperary" or something since they already use Modern with their covered, blade pole pickups.


Yes, "K"ontemporary "M"odel would be a great name for a rebrand LOL

Do you see a need for tweaking the Classic neck? I think they really hit the nail with that pup and there is a reason why some signature artists put in in there sets completely unchanged.


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm under the assumption with everything that was said, that these will be another low-output PAF variant. Would be cool if it's a Classic but with a PAF voice and a P90 voice.


As their bass pups seem to have 4 voices, why not P90 as V4 for the Classics?

But as we are already dreaming about new voices: As Fishamn has so much experience with acoustic pups; wouldn't it be great if they added an acoustic voice to the Fluences?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Kyle Jordan

juka said:


> Yes, "K"ontemporary "M"odel would be a great name for a rebrand LOL
> 
> Do you see a need for tweaking the Classic neck? I think they really hit the nail with that pup and there is a reason why some signature artists put in in there sets completely unchanged.



No I actually think the Classics are the best Fluence pickups. I was just thinking that if these were essentially a rerelease of the Merrows but just not in name, they may want to tweak the partner neck pickup since Merrow's neck was just a regular Classic IIRC. 

Honestly, the more I hear and play the Fluences, the less I like the Modern based ones. The Classics of all types, the Single Widths, and the Koch pickups are really killer. The Modern based one sans the Abasis don't really do it for me.


----------



## PK317

After playing it for a while I'm really impressed with Tosin Abasi set. So now I want to try other sets from Fishman.
I was thinking about single coils strat set and pair of medium output humbuckers.

Whoever had the experience with single coils strat set, what did you think of it? Any hum/ground noise compared to regular passive single coils?

And what would be your suggestions for pair of humbuckers other than Modern or Abasi? I'm leaning toward Javier Reyes Set, but haven't decided yet.


----------



## bjjman

PK317 said:


> After playing it for a while I'm really impressed with Tosin Abasi set. So now I want to try other sets from Fishman.
> I was thinking about single coils strat set and pair of medium output humbuckers.
> 
> Whoever had the experience with single coils strat set, what did you think of it? Any hum/ground noise compared to regular passive single coils?
> 
> And what would be your suggestions for pair of humbuckers other than Modern or Abasi? I'm leaning toward Javier Reyes Set, but haven't decided yet.


I have a set of the singles in my Warmoth partscaster and like them. Here's a pretty detailed run down on my thoughts






The Fishman Fluence Thread


... I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the...




www.sevenstring.org





As for the medium output humbuckers, the Classic Open Coils are a great option. Lot of versatility on tap with them. I've never tried the Javier Reyes Set to compare though.


----------



## mrvomit

Trying moderns in reverse ( alnico and ceramic swapped ) ; interesting , when both have the -6db in ( better choice , clean sound had to much output in aLnico too)
Found a way to test them ( relatively ) more quickly ( voices and tilt /AND OR -6DB) without to use soldering, on pre-existing EmG wireness , so posting here if someone will need it ( instead than wiring switches / removing pickups to put jumpers etc) =
" Jumper wires " : are available for Arduino, Raspberry Pi and similar project , about 10 or more in 20cm lenght , you detach them as many as you want .
Then You wire them on pickups , and let them pass to cavity ( it was difficult for me just for the 3th/4th wire due to tightness of wire-holes) .
Finally, letting them of the back scatchplate ( partially closing scratchplate in my case to dont mess up existing wireness by moving guitar unwillingly ) .
After is done , you simply put the jumper on them instead than the pickups . You can also solder switches to them if you find is a needed tone , without to use the original ones . It did hurt a bit to spend on simple jumpers some euros to get them fast from a*azon , dirty cheap anywhere else.
Only thing you can not do is the split sound , as there is no jumper for that , only solder pads .
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81yjq1pkiGL._AC_SL1500_.jpg ( + jumpers )


----------



## 0ffline

PK317 said:


> After playing it for a while I'm really impressed with Tosin Abasi set. So now I want to try other sets from Fishman.
> I was thinking about single coils strat set and pair of medium output humbuckers.
> 
> Whoever had the experience with single coils strat set, what did you think of it? Any hum/ground noise compared to regular passive single coils?
> 
> And what would be your suggestions for pair of humbuckers other than Modern or Abasi? I'm leaning toward Javier Reyes Set, but haven't decided yet.


I just finished installing my abasi 7 string set last night, I went with the 5-way super switch and fishmans recommended wiring only I made voice 2 the default. So far I really like them, preferring voice 1 more. 

Which wiring did you use (1 vol or 1 vol+1 tone, 3-way/5-way/super, etc) and do you prefer voice 1 or 2?


----------



## PK317

bjjman said:


> I have a set of the singles in my Warmoth partscaster and like them. Here's a pretty detailed run down on my thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fishman Fluence Thread
> 
> 
> ... I would say voice 1 would be super high gain active sound with a bouncy low end and some real low mid chunk, with a little bit less on the high mid and a crazy treble fizz and bite. Voice 2 would be a little lower gain, tighten up the bass, thicken up the mids and get really cutting in the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sevenstring.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the medium output humbuckers, the Classic Open Coils are a great option. Lot of versatility on tap with them. I've never tried the Javier Reyes Set to compare though.


Thanks, man, I red carefully your opinion about single coils. Can't wait to get them now


----------



## PK317

0ffline said:


> I just finished installing my abasi 7 string set last night, I went with the 5-way super switch and fishmans recommended wiring only I made voice 2 the default. So far I really like them, preferring voice 1 more.
> 
> Which wiring did you use (1 vol or 1 vol+1 tone, 3-way/5-way/super, etc) and do you prefer voice 1 or 2?


I went with 3-way switch and two push-pulls for Voice 2 and 3. So far for clean I like Voice 3, for high gain Voice 1. Voice 2 has a bit of vintage vibe, as I hear it.


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



According to Ken Susi (on his latest Fishman takeover) they have a new pickup set in development. Ben Eller and Russ Parish/Satchel currently have a set of those prototypes for testing, which might already suggest a certain direction where those pups might be geared at ;-)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> According to Ken Susi (on his latest Fishman takeover) they have a new pickup set in development. Ben Eller and Russ Parish/Satchel currently have a set of those prototypes for testing, which might already suggest a certain direction where those pups might be geared at ;-)


So less true vintage and more hot-rodded but not modern? I'm guessing it'll be based on the Classic Voice 2 but with a different voicing to pair with it based on another hot-rodded pickup.


----------



## IwantTacos

juka said:


> As their bass pups seem to have 4 voices, why not P90 as V4 for the Classics?
> 
> But as we are already dreaming about new voices: As Fishamn has so much experience with acoustic pups; wouldn't it be great if they added an acoustic voice to the Fluences?


guitarists can't even figure out how to wire 3 voices.


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So less true vintage and more hot-rodded but not modern? I'm guessing it'll be based on the Classic Voice 2 but with a different voicing to pair with it based on another hot-rodded pickup.


Yes, that's what I assume, too.
Maybe instead of Frank Albo's "holy grail" JB (as on Classic Voice 2) somebody else's "archetype" JB and then either a Wolfgang or an Axis pup for the other Voice


----------



## Kyle Jordan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So less true vintage and more hot-rodded but not modern? I'm guessing it'll be based on the Classic Voice 2 but with a different voicing to pair with it based on another hot-rodded pickup.



My immediate thought now that this info is out is Classics with ceramic magnets. Targeting pups like the Duncan Custom and/or Duncan Distortion on Voice 1, and maybe something more modern like Lundgren M on voice 2. Or vice versa.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kyle Jordan said:


> My immediate thought now that this info is out is Classics with ceramic magnets. Targeting pups like the Duncan Custom and/or Duncan Distortion on Voice 1, and maybe something more modern like Lundgren M on voice 2. Or vice versa.


I was kinda thinking the same thing. But idk, Ben hinted this isn't much of a metal/modern pickup. IMO if they're using a different magnet, they're more likely to use an Alnico 2.


----------



## juka

The fact that Satchel is currently on tour with Steel Panther road-testing those prototypes pretty much gives away the direction, doesn't it? ;-)


----------



## blkroseimmortal

KnightBrolaire said:


> only when the battery is really close to dying. Rechargeable batteries are an easy option. I use the tenergy rechargeable ones and they work great tbh


Which tenergy 9V batteries are you using? The 600mah ones? Do you find they last as long as a traditional 9V or do you need to recharge them more often? Most of my guitars have active pickups (EMG and Fishman) and have been thinking about switching to some kind of rechargeable battery. I was just worried that since the rechargeable 9V batteries aren't 9V when fully charged like the regular alkaline batteries that it may have an effect on the tone.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

blkroseimmortal said:


> Which tenergy 9V batteries are you using? The 600mah ones? Do you find they last as long as a traditional 9V or do you need to recharge them more often? Most of my guitars have active pickups (EMG and Fishman) and have been thinking about switching to some kind of rechargeable battery. I was just worried that since the rechargeable 9V batteries aren't 9V when fully charged like the regular alkaline batteries that it may have an effect on the tone.


The 200mAh ones. I have zero issues with them tbh. They last longer than 9v and I don't really need to recharge them often. They come with a couple of batteries and one battery tends to last me multiple months before I have to charge it. Granted I'm not constantly playing the guitar either, so ymmv


----------



## blkroseimmortal

KnightBrolaire said:


> The 200mAh ones. I have zero issues with them tbh. They last longer than 9v and I don't really need to recharge them often. They come with a couple of batteries and one battery tends to last me multiple months before I have to charge it. Granted I'm not constantly playing the guitar either, so ymmv


Thanks. Just to be sure, you are talking about these ones:



They are NiMH and are slow discharge, which would seem to work well in guitars and other electronics like wireless microphones and stuff.


----------



## Alberto7

I recently switched to using rechargeable 9V batteries in my Boden 8. 600 mAh, just plug em directly to a USB port and they begin to charge. I think their real voltage is somewhere between 8.5 and 8.7, I forget exactly. The guitar sounds exactly the same, and I don't worry about having to change batteries as much because I always have another charged battery around. (Came in a pack of 6.)

Haven't had to change batteries yet.


----------



## karnivorus

So finally decided to join the fluence club. I got a modern ceramic in brushed stainless for the bridge.

Been mainly using the 81 for the past 20 years and the first thing I've noticed is the insane clarity the fluence have. Also the picking response is very immidiate. So far I'm really enjoying them even in standard E tuning.

They do require to change the way I usually eq my amps but I guess its to be expected after using the same pickups for so long. 

All in all the I think the clarity and picking response provide a better starting foundation for my tone than the EMGs.


----------



## PK317

karnivorus said:


> So finally decided to join the fluence club. I got a modern ceramic in brushed stainless for the bridge.
> 
> Been mainly using the 81 for the past 20 years and the first thing I've noticed is the insane clarity the fluence have. Also the picking response is very immidiate. So far I'm really enjoying them even in standard E tuning.
> 
> They do require to change the way I usually eq my amps but I guess its to be expected after using the same pickups for so long.
> 
> All in all the I think the clarity and picking response provide a better starting foundation for my tone than the EMGs.


Congrats, man!

I had EMG 85/81 in the past, and then went to passives, and then back to actives again. Never ending story  Honestly, I find modern better sounding than EMG, but that's my least favorite Fishman. They have other models that are better to my ears.

What do you have in the neck? Do you plan getting other Fishman models a shot?


----------



## karnivorus

PK317 said:


> Congrats, man!
> 
> I had EMG 85/81 in the past, and then went to passives, and then back to actives again. Never ending story  Honestly, I find modern better sounding than EMG, but that's my least favorite Fishman. They have other models that are better to my ears.
> 
> What do you have in the neck? Do you plan getting other Fishman models a shot?


Yes sure I might try other models in the future. Wich one would you recommend?


----------



## PK317

karnivorus said:


> Yes sure I might try other models in the future. Wich one would you recommend?


Right now my main guitar has Abasi set, and that sounds amazing. Close to modern, but cleans are nicer, and a bit less compressed. This weekend I've installed single coils set on strat, didn't have much time to play with it yet, but first impression is very positive - classic strat "quack" without noise. Next purchase is going to be classic set and after that Killswitch Engaged set (the tightest from all the models) for downtuning.


----------



## STRHelvete

I have to say, I'm actually interested in the Classics. Not enough to buy a set but they sound good. The guitar I have on back order I believe has Classics so I'm looking forward to hearing them in person..and I'm hoping the guitar doesn't come with Moderns. Here's hoping.


----------



## Strobe

STRHelvete said:


> I have to say, I'm actually interested in the Classics. Not enough to buy a set but they sound good. The guitar I have on back order I believe has Classics so I'm looking forward to hearing them in person..and I'm hoping the guitar doesn't come with Moderns. Here's hoping.



They're great. I am a pretty big Fishman fan and own the modern, TA, SAttach filestrat, and Tele sets. I own two of the classics - they are my favorite of the bunch and I mostly play heavy music. They're fairly bright - and I favor voice 2.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

A Classic with a little less harsh highs and tamer, tighter lows would be my ideal Fishman IMO. Someone brought up a Fluence based on the Duncan SH-5 Classic would be absolutely killer.


----------



## STRHelvete

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> A Classic with a little less harsh highs and tamer, tighter lows would be my ideal Fishman IMO. Someone brought up a Fluence based on the Duncan SH-5 Classic would be absolutely killer.


The SD Custom is my go-to pickup. I have it on all of my guitars. It'd be interesting to hear how the Classic compares


----------



## Koldunya

I just finished installing the 4-string bass modern soapbars in my SRC6. It's a lot of fun, and for funsies it even does "the brutals metals" heavy chugging thing like a champ.

Sounds really good in a lot of different settings. The only thing I would have done differently is put a 5-string set in my Stiletto Studio 5 that also has EMG HZs XD

I might also play with the single coil settings. it's a solder jumper to determine if it's the inner or outer coil you get on the split but right now I like it pretty well as-is (inners) though it feels like outers, or a combination, would be closer to a "J Bass spacing."


----------



## lewstherin006

A long time ago, Fishman put out their isolated sound bank. I was able to download it. For some reason it disappeared from the internet and I couldnt find it from searching. I put everything from the sound bank into one video. Its organized by pickup and voice.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

f


lewstherin006 said:


> A long time ago, Fishman put out their isolated sound bank. I was able to download it. For some reason it disappeared from the internet and I couldnt find it from searching. I put everything from the sound bank into one video. Its organized by pickup and voice.



fucking invaluable dude thanks so much


----------



## soldierkahn

karnivorus said:


> So finally decided to join the fluence club. I got a modern ceramic in brushed stainless for the bridge.
> 
> Been mainly using the 81 for the past 20 years and the first thing I've noticed is the insane clarity the fluence have. Also the picking response is very immidiate. So far I'm really enjoying them even in standard E tuning.
> 
> They do require to change the way I usually eq my amps but I guess its to be expected after using the same pickups for so long.
> 
> All in all the I think the clarity and picking response provide a better starting foundation for my tone than the EMGs.



this is precisely the reason that I switched to Fishmans. I started with an EMG 81 for years. Then I ended up switching to the Seymour Duncan Blackout EMTY pickups as I liked their EQ spread a little better and they had a little less noise. But once I tried my first set of Fluence Moderns in the Ibanez DCM100, I was sold through and through. Now every guitar i have is Fluence equipped:

-KXK Sii-7 baritone 7 with Moderns in modified Drop A (ADADGBE)
-Ibanez RGDR4327 with Moderns in B standard (BEADGBE)
-Ibanez JCRGA8420 with Moderns in Drop D (DADGBE)
-Ibanez RG970XL with Moderns in Drop A# (A# F A# D# G C)
-Ibanez RGIB6 with Moderns in "Staind" Drop Ab (Ab Db Ab Db Gb Bb)
-Ibanez MBM (aka RGA121H) with Moderns in Drop-C (CGCFAD)

While they dont sound exactly the same, having the same pickups in them all helps give them all a great set of "bones" to work with. Kinda like giving me the same awesome quality cake underneath, with different frosting types. I know some folks hate them for that quality, but its what i like most. That and the clarity level, and low to non-existent noise when compared to other pups, keeps me sold on Fishmans for now


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

oh since I'm in this thread this is a PSA you want the Javier set 

does it djent? no
does it do 80s? no 
does it to old school death metal? no
does it do the clicky polyphia thing? no

does it make a super low tuned guitar sound like an instrument and not a 1kh spike of scratchy death? hell yeah

more notes on this to come


----------



## soldierkahn

TheBolivianSniper said:


> oh since I'm in this thread this is a PSA you want the Javier set
> 
> does it djent? no
> does it do 80s? no
> does it to old school death metal? no
> does it do the clicky polyphia thing? no
> 
> does it make a super low tuned guitar sound like an instrument and not a 1kh spike of scratchy death? hell yeah
> 
> more notes on this to come



weren't Javier's and Tosin's engineered with focus on good clean tones rather than high gain tones?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

soldierkahn said:


> weren't Javier's and Tosin's engineered with focus on good clean tones rather than high gain tones?



I'm not completely sure, the demos on the fishman channel show a lot of high gain stuff but it's not really chuggy type shit that everyone uses fluences for. 

I'm hopefully gonna do a big writeup when I've got a moment with some clips but it's not like they're engineered solely for cleans, they sound batshit insane with gain and boosts piled on top of them. They just aren't voiced like a typical high gain pickup. I think the reason most metal players don't like them is because they're pretty smooth and kind of ridiculously dynamic. 

It's pretty much the opposite of an EMG 81, which has this razor sharp cutting high end and great compression that means they're about the most punchy thing in existence. Voice 1 definitely feels a little woofy and relaxed in comparison but even compared to the Bare Knuckle Nailbomb I have in my other guitar it's super clear, very tight still, and sits very well in a mix. 

Voice 2 kinda adds some more compression and high mids but really not a lot, it's more of a feel change than a total EQ shift and it's a little bit subtle but definitely good to have. I will say these things kill for lead lines and multi string chords. Not flubby at all, just not the mega tight icepicky high output thing the moderns do in the wrong guitar. 

Sorry that ended up being long but like they get heavy as shit and are 100% meant for high gain, just not what's trending right now.


----------



## PK317

soldierkahn said:


> weren't Javier's and Tosin's engineered with focus on good clean tones rather than high gain tones?


I don't know about Javier's, but I have Tosin's and they are killing in high gain territory. And the clean is very interesting as well. That's my favorite set by now (I also have Classic, Killswitch Engage and strat SC set)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

soldierkahn said:


> weren't Javier's and Tosin's engineered with focus on good clean tones rather than high gain tones?



Javier's set gives me that impression, while Tosin's seems perfectly fine for metal rhythm.
EDIT: not to say the Javier's cant, but Voice 1 of the Tosins definitely sound like they were meant for tight chuggachugga rhythm while Javier's set seems overall lower output and less compressed, even darker sounding in some settings.


----------



## metaljohn

lewstherin006 said:


> A long time ago, Fishman put out their isolated sound bank. I was able to download it. For some reason it disappeared from the internet and I couldnt find it from searching. I put everything from the sound bank into one video. Its organized by pickup and voice.



Sounds like the Townsends and the Adlers are the best to me out of the lineup. Already have the Townsends in one guitar, just need to find the right one(aesthetically) to throw the Adler set into


----------



## soldierkahn

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I'm not completely sure, the demos on the fishman channel show a lot of high gain stuff but it's not really chuggy type shit that everyone uses fluences for.
> 
> I'm hopefully gonna do a big writeup when I've got a moment with some clips but it's not like they're engineered solely for cleans, they sound batshit insane with gain and boosts piled on top of them. They just aren't voiced like a typical high gain pickup. I think the reason most metal players don't like them is because they're pretty smooth and kind of ridiculously dynamic.
> 
> It's pretty much the opposite of an EMG 81, which has this razor sharp cutting high end and great compression that means they're about the most punchy thing in existence. Voice 1 definitely feels a little woofy and relaxed in comparison but even compared to the Bare Knuckle Nailbomb I have in my other guitar it's super clear, very tight still, and sits very well in a mix.
> 
> Voice 2 kinda adds some more compression and high mids but really not a lot, it's more of a feel change than a total EQ shift and it's a little bit subtle but definitely good to have. I will say these things kill for lead lines and multi string chords. Not flubby at all, just not the mega tight icepicky high output thing the moderns do in the wrong guitar.
> 
> Sorry that ended up being long but like they get heavy as shit and are 100% meant for high gain, just not what's trending right now.



no dont be sorry, i was hoping to get a lot of deep information and every little bit helps! Also helps me make sure that Im not misunderstanding what the pickups excel in


----------



## soldierkahn

metaljohn said:


> Sounds like the Townsends and the Adlers are the best to me out of the lineup. Already have the Townsends in one guitar, just need to find the right one(aesthetically) to throw the Adler set into



theyd look good in a JBM100


----------



## metaljohn

soldierkahn said:


> theyd look good in a JBM100


Yeah nah I was thinking something like an Edwards or Greco LPC in black or tobacco sunburst


----------



## Tree

Annoying question incoming:

I have a Schecter KM7 MkIII Artist with the Merrow set, and I’m finding that while the bridge pickup is cool, I’m not too into it for the long haul. It’s overall just too “Fishman-y” for me. 

So I want to replace it, but the problem is that I LOVE the neck pickup. I’ve never gotten lead and split coil clean tones as nice as I have with this bad boy. 

For you Fishman experts; *is there a bridge pickup in their 7 string lineup that is similar to the Duncan Distortion or Black Winter in terms of output and EQ voicing?* I would think the classics, but I’ve never used them and don’t want the tone to be similar to the PAF setting on the Merrow. 

Obviously the easier option would be to just slap the pickup I know I want in there, but then I’d have to replace the neck pickup, which leads me to question two:

*What passive neck pickup is closest to the Merrow neck?* My understanding is that it’s a slightly tweaked classic. It’s been forever since I’ve used anything aside from a D Activator, BW, Sentient (not a big fan) or stock neck pickup so I’m out of touch.

*TLDR stuff is in bold. *


----------



## Ralyks

So it's become my understanding now that you don't need to do any routing for the non-open core Fishmans (Tosins, Moderns, Townsend, etc.) Is that true? I just got a Keith Merrow set for my new Strandberg but I'm almost debating switching the Jaivers out of my main Strandberg and putting Tosins in instead if I don't have to do any routing.


----------



## juka

Tree said:


> Annoying question incoming:
> 
> I have a Schecter KM7 MkIII Artist with the Merrow set, and I’m finding that while the bridge pickup is cool, I’m not too into it for the long haul. It’s overall just too “Fishman-y” for me.
> 
> So I want to replace it, but the problem is that I LOVE the neck pickup. I’ve never gotten lead and split coil clean tones as nice as I have with this bad boy.
> 
> For you Fishman experts; *is there a bridge pickup in their 7 string lineup that is similar to the Duncan Distortion or Black Winter in terms of output and EQ voicing?* I would think the classics, but I’ve never used them and don’t want the tone to be similar to the PAF setting on the Merrow.
> 
> Obviously the easier option would be to just slap the pickup I know I want in there, but then I’d have to replace the neck pickup, which leads me to question two:
> 
> *What passive neck pickup is closest to the Merrow neck?* My understanding is that it’s a slightly tweaked classic. It’s been forever since I’ve used anything aside from a D Activator, BW, Sentient (not a big fan) or stock neck pickup so I’m out of touch.
> 
> *TLDR stuff is in bold. *


KM neck PU is just an ordinary Open Core Classic neck PU. Fishman always insisted on that, the neck PU of my early KM7 has a label on it that says so and although my late KM7 set has all slugs (instead of the classic screw/slug combo) I do NOT hear any difference between my early and late set.
KM bridge PU is described as V1 being Keith signature and V2 "brown"(?) sound whereas Classic bridge is V1=PAF and V2=JB(ish). But you should be aware that theses sound descriptions are referring to the sound characteristics and not to the output. Even their classics have output for days, so maybe Classic V2 could be in your ballpark.
Currently I have 2 KM7 sets and 2 Open Core Classic 7 sets and although the KM7 are my favs most of the time I can pretty well live with my Classic7, too.


----------



## Tree

juka said:


> KM neck PU is just an ordinary Open Core Classic neck PU. Fishman always insisted on that, the neck PU of my early KM7 has a label on it that says so and although my late KM7 set has all slugs (instead of the classic screw/slug combo) I do NOT hear any difference between my early and late set.
> KM bridge PU is described as V1 being Keith signature and V2 "brown"(?) sound whereas Classic bridge is V1=PAF and V2=JB(ish). But you should be aware that theses sound descriptions are referring to the sound characteristics and not to the output. Even their classics have output for days, so maybe Classic V2 could be in your ballpark.
> Currently I have 2 KM7 sets and 2 Open Core Classic 7 sets and although the KM7 are my favs most of the time I can pretty well live with my Classic7, too.


Thank you! This is exactly the input I was looking for. 

I’m kind of at an impasse with this. The KM bridge sounds fantastic in a mix, but it’s not exactly my favorite just for playing by myself. I figure most Fishman pickups will still have a similar vibe because of how peaky their frequency spectrum is. Maybe I just need to sit with it some more and see if I can’t come up with some separate patches for playing/writing as opposed to the ones I use for recording.


----------



## juka

For those actually attending the 2022 NAMM show:
Are there any (good) news about the Fluence line???

The bad news seems to be that with Tosin Abasi the next big signature artist after Keith Merrow ended his endorsement in a pretty awkward and abrupt way.

This time by dropping the news right at NAMM about his new signature with EBMM (without Fluence pups!!!):
https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ebmm-abasi-kaizen.353532/

Seems like really nobody saw this coming.

Not sure what's going on behind the scenes, but if you follow McRocklin and see how he gets more and more frustrated when it comes to Fishman not releasing his signature set to the public for how many months now?


----------



## Kyle Jordan

I doubt Tosin is leaving Fishman. And I also think that the Kaizen is more of a soft brand extension for him rather than his new main or signature. EBMM seem ardent on using their in-house pickups and electronics. 

Still, Fishman has had some strangeness going on with the Fluence line since before the pandemic. Kind of seems like they had lost direction with the line, and then covid came through and wrought havoc. 

Could certainly be wrong and this signals Tosin leaving. That would be a fairly big blow too.


----------



## cmpxchg

I don't get what's happening with Fluence. There's a PCB and then wire printed on top of the PCB, but somehow they're not using the same PCB for every humbucker. Logistically, this strikes me as a little crazy. It seems like they are entirely focused on sig sets vs letting people mix and match different models like every other pickup maker. I don't see what the point is unless there is something intrinsic to the manufacturing process that prevents mix/match covers/bobbins and requires very large runs of pickups to be produced (see also "why are there so many different PCBs"). Compare to the versatility you get with any other pickup maker, and the lack of sonic customizability from Fishman seems odd. 

That said, it looks like there's about to be a rev to the Moderns; the Heafy wiring diagram references both the Heafy sig and the Modern 6/7/8/9 string, and AFAICT they don't have a 9-string Modern currently available. The Heafy sig also seems to have a different voicing than what's listed on the current Modern page (630Hz peak freq for ceramic voice 1 vs 720Hz).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> For those actually attending the 2022 NAMM show:
> Are there any (good) news about the Fluence line???
> 
> The bad news seems to be that with Tosin Abasi the next big signature artist after Keith Merrow ended his endorsement in a pretty awkward and abrupt way.
> 
> This time by dropping the news right at NAMM about his new signature with EBMM (without Fluence pups!!!):
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ebmm-abasi-kaizen.353532/
> 
> Seems like really nobody saw this coming.
> 
> Not sure what's going on behind the scenes, but if you follow McRocklin and see how he gets more and more frustrated when it comes to Fishman not releasing his signature set to the public for how many months now?


Seems less likely that Tosin stopped using Fishman and that EBMM wanted to use their shiny, brand new pickups on their new guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^Also to add to that, they just introduced a new model and...







...you guessed it. Fluence pickups.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^Also to add to that, they just introduced a new model and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...you guessed it. Fluence pickups.


I heard this in Norm Macdonald’s voice.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kyle Jordan said:


> I heard this in Norm Macdonald’s voice.


----------



## juka

Ok, good to know. Still haven't decided on if that's an extremely clever move or just outright dump if you own your own aspiring guitar company and your own signature pups to have a signature guitar with another company, but at least that's not so bad news that the Fluence Abasi set seems to stay.

Back to my original question: Any (really) good news for Fluence at NAMM?
Any McRocklin sig, Fluff sig, this ominous new OpenCore set Ben Eller and Satchel were (road)testing? Anything at all?


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Stolen from the Abasi thread: Looks like Fluence singles in 7 and 8 strings are just about confirmed.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

juka said:


> or just outright dump if you own your own aspiring guitar company and your own signature pups to have a signature guitar with another company


I don't get why people think that.  It's *extremely* fucking clever. Dude owns his own company which means he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Dude knows how to make bank playing his niche genre of music.



Kyle Jordan said:


> Stolen from the Abasi thread: Looks like Fluence singles in 7 and 8 strings are just about confirmed.



Yeah, this on top of the Javier 8-string Strat... finally getting those ERG singlecoils.


----------



## NoodleFace

Tree said:


> Thank you! This is exactly the input I was looking for.
> 
> I’m kind of at an impasse with this. The KM bridge sounds fantastic in a mix, but it’s not exactly my favorite just for playing by myself. I figure most Fishman pickups will still have a similar vibe because of how peaky their frequency spectrum is. Maybe I just need to sit with it some more and see if I can’t come up with some separate patches for playing/writing as opposed to the ones I use for recording.


IIRC those pickups have 3 voicings, do you dislike all 3?

I found the merrow ones my favorites. I have some fluence moderns now that I only like in short bursts.


----------



## thorgan

Guitarworld write up mentioned that those 8 string singles are "spec'd" by Javier and that Tosin "hinted at voicing his own singles down the line". The Javier Fluence set sounds amazing ( I concur with boliviansniper) so pretty exciting that he's getting singlecoils, wonder if there'll be three voices like the hums or not.


----------



## Tree

NoodleFace said:


> IIRC those pickups have 3 voicings, do you dislike all 3?
> 
> I found the merrow ones my favorites. I have some fluence moderns now that I only like in short bursts.


Yeah, it’s the set with 3 voicings. I wouldn’t say that I necessarily dislike them. I’m just someone that for the most part likes more traditional guitar tones, and I’m so used to passives. And at least while playing they don’t give me the same kind of tones I’m used to hearing while actively playing guitar. 

I’m the same way with EMGs. I love working with guitar tracks that were done with EMGs in a mixing setting, but I don’t like playing them. Though with EMG you don’t get the weird spiky tones that Fishman have. 

I’m going to give the KM7 a good setup and everything either this weekend or next, so when I do I’m going to really dig in to see if I can find some settings I like. I’m in no rush to replace them, so I figure I may just need to experiment more. These are my favorite Fishman set I’ve used thus far as well. Particularly for clean and leads tones. It’s just the rhythms that I don’t gel with.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Does anyone know how to remove the little nuts on the pickup ears on Open Core Fluences for direct mounting? I know I could drill through but it looks like they might be able to come off without needing to drill


----------



## juka

Don Tonberry said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the little nuts on the pickup ears on Open Core Fluences for direct mounting? I know I could drill through but it looks like they might be able to come off without needing to drill


I can tell how I did it with all 4 sets of Open Cores I own, but be aware that I can't be made responsible if for any that doesn't work for you. If my description isn't 100% clear to you and mind I'm no native speaker, DON'T DO IT!

Take one of the direct mount screws from your guitar (assuming that it usually is a wood screw with a slightly bigger diameter as the one provided by Fishman) and screw it into one of the "ears" of your open core pups from above. It will get stuck after a few turns due to its bigger diameter and when you continue to turn your screwdriver it will cleanly shear off the metal sleeve from the PCB pup baseplate.
On Moderns (that have a completely different construction at that spot!) drilling out the metal sleeve is the better option (although it really is a pain in the ass).

As maybe 99% of 7+string guitars are direct mount I don't get why Fishman doesn't offer a more user friendly solution.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Don Tonberry said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the little nuts on the pickup ears on Open Core Fluences for direct mounting? I know I could drill through but it looks like they might be able to come off without needing to drill



I'm gonna be real I just ripped the fuckers off with pliers but everything about my fluence install was jank as hell


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

soldierkahn said:


> no dont be sorry, i was hoping to get a lot of deep information and every little bit helps! Also helps me make sure that Im not misunderstanding what the pickups excel in


yo got a demo posted for yall finally, low quality playing but hopefully it shows it off a little


----------



## chugzilla

im new.... and im not reading through 108 pages...incase this was already covered or talked about lol.....i got my first guitar with fishman fluence modern pickups ...its a dean satin ml...all my other guitars for the last 20 years have all been emg 81 or 81x....i run all my guitars through the emg es-918 battery box the fishmans also...all sound close....i cant really tell much difference but i do prefer the emg 81-x over them all....spech with the battery box set at 18 volts for the extra headroom...the switching capabilities of the fishman fluence in my guitar dont even offer an advantage i can hear through headphones but the guitar came with um so ill leave um be...and if anyone ever wondered or thought about getting the emg es-918 box DO IT but just ask for extra battery clips for all your guitars and possibly extra dummy batteries depending on how many have a cavity where the clips wont work....tc and enjoy life and jam on


----------



## mrvomit

just a word of warning about a brand of rechargables= Took 4 "Okcell " batteries reading they were ok in some forums ( 900mah in my case ) . It's a waste : Strong sibilance sound ,on full chord you hear regular sound ..but touching strings , being close to equipments or ending of the chords/notes they start to do that high pitch sibilance noise , unusable. 26 bucks in the bin or to be used elsewhere who knows when . Tried to wrap something (like a string package with sort of metal inside) to see if sort of shielding could mitigate that noise , no luck.
Also those batteries ere bit taller and did not fit battery compartment well .


----------



## IwantTacos

weird。i have 10 or so ok cells and the work fine.


----------



## aWoodenShip

Just from looking into it after not for a while, it seems like eneloop is still among the best in the game?

Edit: nvm. It's looking like they don't have a 9v.


----------



## mrvomit

IwantTacos said:


> weird。i have 10 or so ok cells and the work fine.


took them cause i was adviced about , anyway noticed after a search for "QCELL" in THAT THREAD someone told they were noisy and unusable too for guitar , i missed that message cause i did not think to look for "qcell" .. Meaning is hit or miss and thous and not recommendable ( all 4 of them are noisy and charged ,not mentioning the bit larger size .Pity!) *
I was intrigued by the usb connection to charge them as very convenient ..but well did waste some bucks at the end . *** Unless those i have are fake that i can't know ***
Guess *ZNTER are a better bet ? 
*


----------



## juka

mrvomit said:


> took them cause i was adviced about , anyway noticed after a search for "QCELL" in THAT THREAD someone told they were noisy and unusable too for guitar , i missed that message cause i did not think to look for "qcell" .. Meaning is hit or miss and thous and not recommendable ( all 4 of them are noisy and charged ,not mentioning the bit larger size .Pity!) *
> I was intrigued by the usb connection to charge them as very convenient ..but well did waste some bucks at the end . *** Unless those i have are fake that i can't know ***
> Guess *ZNTER are a better bet ? *


Yes, at least for me ZNTER work noiseless while OK Cells were noisy as hell.
Still wish I found something rechargeable with real 9V output, like those Tensai 9.6v that pop up on the internet from time to time but never seem to be actually available


----------



## mrvomit

juka said:


> Yes, at least for me ZNTER work noiseless while OK Cells were noisy as hell.
> Still wish I found something rechargeable with real 9V output, like those Tensai 9.6v that pop up on the internet from time to time but never seem to be actually available


where did you get yours? i'm tempted trying aliexpress for it 600/700mah znter official store,though cost the double as ok cell ( so fearing a bit the again throw away experience)


----------



## juka

mrvomit said:


> where did you get yours? i'm tempted trying aliexpress for it 600/700mah znter official store,though cost the double as ok cell ( so fearing a bit the again throw away experience)


Bought them on Amazon over 4 years ago. Mine are 400mAh ones, don't know if the current 600mAh version are as good, but still available on Amazon:



Links are just for reference not meant to advertise or sell something.


----------



## mrvomit

well i have a coupon on a-e i will try a 10 bucks in it , will let you know


juka said:


> Bought them on Amazon over 4 years ago. Mine are 400mAh ones, don't know if the current 600mAh version are as good, but still available on Amazon:


----------



## CanserDYI

New fluff bridge pup coming out?


----------



## juka

CanserDYI said:


> New fluff bridge pup coming out?


Yes, videos popping up on Fishmans website and Fluff's own channel Riffs, Beards & Gear.

Great to see that at least the first of several long rumored/leaked prototypes starts to finally come out.
Let's hope the other ones follow soon.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Judging from Fluff's and SMR's videos, the Fluff bridge sounds muffled. I don't know if it's a matter of how they dial tones on their amps nowadays. Interesting that he used V1 of the Adler pup for his V2.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So it sounds like he took Voice 1 of the Dev bridge and made it both darker and mid-heavy. 

Listening to both his and SMR's video... Fuuuuuuuck me I hate it. Cocked wah city. Voice 2 sounded so much better.
I'm still waiting to hear what Ben Eller's mystery pickup is. His videos sounded much better.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So it sounds like he took Voice 1 of the Dev bridge and made it both darker and mid-heavy.
> *
> Listening to both his and SMR's video... Fuuuuuuuck me I hate it. Cocked wah city. *Voice 2 sounded so much better.
> I'm still waiting to hear what Ben Eller's mystery pickup is. His videos sounded much better.



To my ears, this describes every single Fishman pickup they've released.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> To my ears, this describes every single Fishman pickup they've released.


I know but these are probably the worst in that regard so far. The last thing the Fluences need, especially the Devin bridge, is more mids and less treble.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Yep. The Devins already sound ok. They are the least Fluence Modern sounding of all the Ceramic bridge models.


----------



## juka

Yeah, same with me. When Fluff described it as a Devin with rolled down highs I was pretty shocked because the one thing that made me ditch the Devins was that although I sort of liked their sound under high gain I was constantly checking the tone pot if it really was still wide open and not accidentally rolled down. The last thing the Devin set needs is another cutoff in the highs.
But if you look at the specs you might realize that even Fluff's description doesn't really fit the specs because although he claims V1 is more or less a Devin and V2 is Adler, both of these are ceramic and are variations of the Modern Ceramic while his sig is clearly based on the Modern Alnico he played most of the time as a bridge pup before he had his sig made.
So maybe a better description would be that Fishman took the Modern Alnico and gave it the Devin and Adler "treatment" (and Abasi because that's probably where V3 comes from).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The spec sheet says it's still a ceramic. But describes it as alnico. I'm so confused.


----------



## Strobe

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So it sounds like he took Voice 1 of the Dev bridge and made it both darker and mid-heavy.
> 
> Listening to both his and SMR's video... Fuuuuuuuck me I hate it. Cocked wah city. Voice 2 sounded so much better.
> I'm still waiting to hear what Ben Eller's mystery pickup is. His videos sounded much better.



Agree with it sounds a lot like the Devon set, and while I don't hate it, it's not my favorite. That said, I have heard the Devon set sound awesome with different amps. I did not love it with the JP2C here (which is weird as that is my favorite amp), but it tames some of the fizziness on a 5150 (which I like except for the fizziness).

The voice 1 from the Willie Adler set, however, is just one of the best of all the Fishman voices. Just having that as an option makes this a much stronger pickup, combined with the single coil sound. Honestly, I would probably prefer this pickup if it just had voice 2 and 3.

While this one is a mixed bag - having more options is a good thing. There is a lot of marketing hype out there for sure, but the clarity thing on these pickups is real. It's not hype. I own 5 different sets, and it's just there on all of them. I would love to see Fishman cover a little more territory with their offerings.


----------



## Legion

Fluff has a signature pickup now...


----------



## TheSomberlain

Strobe said:


> Agree with it sounds a lot like the Devon set, and while I don't hate it, it's not my favorite. That said, I have heard the Devon set sound awesome with different amps. I did not love it with the JP2C here (which is weird as that is my favorite amp), but it tames some of the fizziness on a 5150 (which I like except for the fizziness).
> 
> The voice 1 from the Willie Adler set, however, is just one of the best of all the Fishman voices. Just having that as an option makes this a much stronger pickup, combined with the single coil sound. Honestly, I would probably prefer this pickup if it just had voice 2 and 3.
> 
> While this one is a mixed bag - having more options is a good thing. There is a lot of marketing hype out there for sure, but the clarity thing on these pickups is real. It's not hype. I own 5 different sets, and it's just there on all of them. I would love to see Fishman cover a little more territory with their offerings.


The Dev Set is awesome with my Diezels and Orange Dual Dark. I find that to be the case with any gear though. Cabs, speakers, pickups, etc. just need to be matched appropriately.


----------



## jwade

Legion said:


> Fluff has a signature pickup now...



*First part of what I typed disappeared! I didn't hate the Ray guys sound, I thought it sounded ok, so I watched Fluffs video and HIS was what I was commenting about here:

Did not like his "clean' sound at all, and the distorted sound was terrible. I don't get it, was it just ultra shitty YouTube quality making it seem really really bad sounding?


----------



## Legion

jwade said:


> Did not like his "clean' sound at all, and the distorted sound was terrible. I don't get it, was it just ultra shitty YouTube quality making it seem really really bad sounding?


I'm not a fan of Ray's tone generally, so I agree there (Ray's a great guy though). 

My comment was about fluff getting another signature after his first signature set which he called Beard Combers (which he clearly didn't care about)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jwade said:


> *First part of what I typed disappeared! I didn't hate the Ray guys sound, I thought it sounded ok, so I watched Fluffs video and HIS was what I was commenting about here:
> 
> Did not like his "clean' sound at all, and the distorted sound was terrible. I don't get it, was it just ultra shitty YouTube quality making it seem really really bad sounding?


Fluff's video sounded similar. The pickup's high end is way rolled off and there's too much midrange.



Legion said:


> I'm not a fan of Ray's tone generally, so I agree there (Ray's a great guy though).
> 
> My comment was about fluff getting another signature after his first signature set which he called Beard Combers (which he clearly didn't care about)



I almost bought one of those...They still sell them, too.


----------



## Hoss632

I personally don't think the new Fluff pick up sounds all that bad. But I will say voice 2 which is straight up Will Adler's voice 1 from his signature set sounds A LOT better than voice 1. Main reason I would consider fluff's pick up is souly so I can have the Will Adler voice with a black pick up since Will's set comes only in a worn gold type finish.


----------



## Hoss632

Strobe said:


> Agree with it sounds a lot like the Devon set, and while I don't hate it, it's not my favorite. That said, I have heard the Devon set sound awesome with different amps. I did not love it with the JP2C here (which is weird as that is my favorite amp), but it tames some of the fizziness on a 5150 (which I like except for the fizziness).
> 
> The voice 1 from the Willie Adler set, however, is just one of the best of all the Fishman voices. Just having that as an option makes this a much stronger pickup, combined with the single coil sound. Honestly, I would probably prefer this pickup if it just had voice 2 and 3.
> 
> While this one is a mixed bag - having more options is a good thing. There is a lot of marketing hype out there for sure, but the clarity thing on these pickups is real. It's not hype. I own 5 different sets, and it's just there on all of them. I would love to see Fishman cover a little more territory with their offerings.


I'm with you. I think the Will Adler voice 1 is the best voice of any of the fishman stuff. 2nd favorite being voice 2 on the classics which is a hot rodded PAF. I'm still waiting for someone to finally demo a 6 string set of the Javier Reyes pups. I've heard them in 7 and 8 string and don't like em. Just curious how they sound in 6 string.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Voice 2 of the Classics would be my favorite Fishman sound if the lows were slightly rolled off.


----------



## juka

Hoss632 said:


> I'm with you. I think the Will Adler voice 1 is the best voice of any of the fishman stuff. 2nd favorite being voice 2 on the classics which is a hot rodded PAF. I'm still waiting for someone to finally demo a 6 string set of the Javier Reyes pups. I've heard them in 7 and 8 string and don't like em. Just curious how they sound in 6 string.


Although you might consider most humbuckers that came after the original PAF as "hotrodded PAFs" in one way or the other, V2 of the classic bridge is actually voiced after an old (vintage?) JB owned by Frank Albo.
"Hotrodded" in Fishman's marketing context is the reminiscence to SD selling JB and Jazz as a set called "Hot Rodded Humbucker Set"








Hot Rodded Humbucker Set | Seymour Duncan


The ultimate Hot Rodded humbucker pickups, the JB (SH-4) and Jazz Models (SH-2) make for a versatile combination that will breathe life into any guitar.




www.seymourduncan.com


----------



## Hoss632

juka said:


> Although you might consider most humbuckers that came after the original PAF as "hotrodded PAFs" in one way or the other, V2 of the classic bridge is actually voiced after an old (vintage?) JB owned by Frank Albo.
> "Hotrodded" in Fishman's marketing context is the reminiscence to SD selling JB and Jazz as a set called "Hot Rodded Humbucker Set"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hot Rodded Humbucker Set | Seymour Duncan
> 
> 
> The ultimate Hot Rodded humbucker pickups, the JB (SH-4) and Jazz Models (SH-2) make for a versatile combination that will breathe life into any guitar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.seymourduncan.com


Ah I did not know that. Would explain why I like that tone a lot as I love the JB.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

V1 is definitely hot-rodded PAF though. It's got more push than any PAF I've tried.


----------



## juka

Fishman | Fluence Custom Series Thomas McRocklin 6-String Pickup Set







www.fishman.com





Great to see that all those long rumored custom series start to roll out finally.
Although the McR are still only on "preorder" status on their homepage.
Nothing too spectacular -as long announced- just open core classics in a custom color with a slightly modernized V3 (probably just taken from the Abasis?). So you might ask what the hell took them so long? Getting the purple right or what?

What actually stroke me is when you compare the spec sheets, although V1 and V2 should be exactly the same as in the open core classics at least the peak freqs are not the same?! Don't they know there shit or did they revise V1 and 2 on the classics without mentioning?!


----------



## Hoss632

I'm curious. If folks in here could voice their own fishman sets what would you do? For me Bridge would straight up be Will Adler Voice 1 as my main voice 1 tone as well, so it'd have the pole pieces. Voice 2 would probably be a variation of the Tosin abasi voice 1, voice 3 a single coil. Neck probably just the Modern or Tosin abasi v1. V2 I would do like the voice as if the coils were in parallel, then v2 a split coil tone.


----------



## Hoss632

juka said:


> Fishman | Fluence Custom Series Thomas McRocklin 6-String Pickup Set
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fishman.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great to see that all those long rumored custom series start to roll out finally.
> Although the McR are still only on "preorder" status on their homepage.
> Nothing too spectacular -as long announced- just open core classics in a custom color with a slightly modernized V3 (probably just taken from the Abasis?). So you might ask what the hell took them so long? Getting the purple right or what?
> 
> What actually stroke me is when you compare the spec sheets, although V1 and V2 should be exactly the same as in the open core classics at least the peak freqs are not the same?! Don't they know there shit or did they revise V1 and 2 on the classics without mentioning?!


Who knows. They say that Matt Heafy's custom set is just moderns with a split coil added, but his set definitely sound like they have much more low end to them than the standard modern set do. Just my opinions though.


----------



## juka

Hoss632 said:


> I'm curious. If folks in here could voice their own fishman sets what would you do? For me Bridge would straight up be Will Adler Voice 1 as my main voice 1 tone as well, so it'd have the pole pieces. Voice 2 would probably be a variation of the Tosin abasi voice 1, voice 3 a single coil. Neck probably just the Modern or Tosin abasi v1. V2 I would do like the voice as if the coils were in parallel, then v2 a split coil tone.


Yes, it would be great if "ordinary customers" could mix and match existing voices like the artists in the Fluence custom line. But personally I would be much more exited about new voices modeled after other highly popular pickups. So after the PAF, JB,... maybe the various Van Halen pups or certain BKPs everybody is raving about.


----------



## Hoss632

juka said:


> Yes, it would be great if "ordinary customers" could mix and match existing voices like the artists in the Fluence custom line. But personally I would be much more exited about new voices modeled after other highly popular pickups. So after the PAF, JB,... maybe the various Van Halen pups or certain BKPs everybody is raving about.


I would agree. I'd love a voice modeled after the Duncan black winters myself.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I wonder if those are the "special" pickups that Ben Eller was testing.

Oh and ABOUT FUCKING TIME they do a sig set with multiple color options.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hoss632 said:


> Who knows. They say that Matt Heafy's custom set is just moderns with a split coil added, but his set definitely sound like they have much more low end to them than the standard modern set do. Just my opinions though.


IIRC there's multiple versions of the Fluence Moderns. The first revisions were brighter, had less low end, and more output. The later revisions have more low end and slightly less output.


----------



## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if those are the "special" pickups that Ben Eller was testing.
> 
> Oh and ABOUT FUCKING TIME they do a sig set with multiple color options.


+1 on both! Didn't know I liked neon yellow covers, but pictures of what EMG recently is doing for some endorsees is really giving me the itch for neon green or neon yellow covers/bobbins. Seems like the 80s are really coming back 

That the other known "beta-tester"(?) of this mysterious set was Russ Parish better known as Satchel may hind to a certain direction.
Not sure how close EMGs Retroactive Super77 set comes to their marketing blabla and how well it was received, but maybe something in this direction.


----------



## mrvomit

mrvomit said:


> just a word of warning about a brand of rechargables= Took 4 "Okcell " batteries reading they were ok in some forums ( 900mah in my case ) . It's a waste : Strong sibilance sound ,on full chord you hear regular sound ..but touching strings , being close to equipments or ending of the chords/notes they start to do that high pitch sibilance noise , unusable. 26 bucks in the bin or to be used elsewhere who knows when . Tried to wrap something (like a string package with sort of metal inside) to see if sort of shielding could mitigate that noise , no luck.
> Also those batteries ere bit taller and did not fit battery compartment well .


ok Tried znter also.Nothing to do,with every of those usb-rechargable battery you get a sibilance noise .


----------



## Mike

Has anyone seen a wiring diagram floating around for a DT Set, but with a standard 3-way blade switch?


----------



## mrvomit

Mike said:


> Has anyone seen a wiring diagram floating around for a DT Set, but with a standard 3-way blade switch?


i 've found lot of diagrams on fb page (
Fishman Fluence Modern pickups users), try to ask there​


----------



## Warmart

Over the weekend I installed my 1st ever set of Fishmans, the Will Adlers into my PRS 594 - I know, sacrilege and all that . 

Gutting all electronics and reinstalling is not for the faint of heart, it was a JOB. At least I'm fairly experienced with soldering but navigating multiple Fishman wiring diagrams to figure out what was needed for THIS pu set in THIS guitar was a challenge. This is only my 2nd pu swap and the 1st was solderless EMG, but it worked 1st time! This guitar has hybrid hardware so the little bits of brass go well with the pu covers!

Very unique sounding pu's and massively better than the 58/15 MT's that came in it. They were fairly low output but VERY prone to feedback and just not my thing at ALL.

Damndest part is that I assumed I'd prefer the Voice 2 which is supposed to be the "active" sounding voice, so I wired my 2 push/pulls to make it the default. After playing a bit I found out voice 1 sounds way better to me, so I guess I'll be moving the wires on the push/pulls so my knobs aren't out all the time .


----------



## jwade

I got to try a Jackson 7 with the Fishman Fluence Open Core PRF-CO7, wasn't super impressed with them. They had a weirdly thin/jangly sound that I wasn't digging at all.

That was my first time trying a Jackson pro series and Evertune and Fishmans, and the Fishmans were the only weak link in the chain IMO. I really dug the guitar, and the finish is so much cooler in person, photos do not do it justice.

Would these pickups be something I could trade to someone for a different model? From what I've heard, the Moderns and the Devin set seem more like what I'd be into.


----------



## Mike

jwade said:


> I got to try a Jackson 7 with the Fishman Fluence Open Core PRF-CO7, wasn't super impressed with them. They had a weirdly thin/jangly sound that I wasn't digging at all.
> 
> That was my first time trying a Jackson pro series and Evertune and Fishmans, and the Fishmans were the only weak link in the chain IMO. I really dug the guitar, and the finish is so much cooler in person, photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Would these pickups be something I could trade to someone for a different model? From what I've heard, the Moderns and the Devin set seem more like what I'd be into.
> View attachment 114786


I'm sure you could find someone who would do a trade of Moderns for your classics.

The Devin Townsend Set is only available for 6 strings though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

T


Mike said:


> I'm sure you could find someone who would do a trade of Moderns for your classics.
> 
> The Devin Townsend Set is only available for 6 strings though.


The guitar would have to be routed. Those pickup routes look super tight to the point not even the "passive" sized Moderns won't fit.


----------



## Hoss632

Warmart said:


> Over the weekend I installed my 1st ever set of Fishmans, the Will Adlers into my PRS 594 - I know, sacrilege and all that .
> 
> Gutting all electronics and reinstalling is not for the faint of heart, it was a JOB. At least I'm fairly experienced with soldering but navigating multiple Fishman wiring diagrams to figure out what was needed for THIS pu set in THIS guitar was a challenge. This is only my 2nd pu swap and the 1st was solderless EMG, but it worked 1st time! This guitar has hybrid hardware so the little bits of brass go well with the pu covers!
> 
> Very unique sounding pu's and massively better than the 58/15 MT's that came in it. They were fairly low output but VERY prone to feedback and just not my thing at ALL.
> 
> Damndest part is that I assumed I'd prefer the Voice 2 which is supposed to be the "active" sounding voice, so I wired my 2 push/pulls to make it the default. After playing a bit I found out voice 1 sounds way better to me, so I guess I'll be moving the wires on the push/pulls so my knobs aren't out all the time .


Not surprised you ended up liking voice 1 on these. Will's custom voice is probably the best sounding voice out of every pick up fishman has made IMO. 2nd for me is voice 2 on the classics. Guitar looks killer!


----------



## washburned

Hey guys, don't normally join forums but a lot of you guys seem to be into the similar stuff and have enjoying reading some discussions here

I just put a set of townsend fluences into a guitar... And they're crazy bright. Seems nearly impossible to get a smooth lead tone on the bridge. I'm thinking it's actually my guitar though. It's a Chris Poland signature schecter poltergeist, and every pickup I've ran in it is too bright for me, especially on the GBe strings, which is weird to me because Chris Poland always gets those warm and smooth tones, even on his bridge. I'm running my tones on my kemper into an apollo twin x via spdif, and have tried some sorcery to little avail

*Stock pickups (john gadesi handwound Pasadena/Plus):* too bright for me
*Dimarzio Evolutions:* too bright for me (I thought maybe this was happening because of push pull pot wiring was lowering my output, these sounded great in a $500 ibanez I got in like 2008)
*Townsend fluences:* too bright for me on the leads.... Could record some great rhythms with it though, insane clarity on each note in dense chords. I like them, but I really miss having some thickness/smoothness/mushiness on higher strings for leads as opposed to what I would describe as punchy but thin/brittle 

Almost want to give up and get a new guitar. Sort of want that one borderline master of all trades guitar. I have a washburn renegade equipped with EMG 81/85 with 18v mod and I love the sound I get from them in that guitar. It can rip the percussive rhythms with a bright inflection/punch on the low strings, but still get that thick/warm tone on the higher strings without switching amp/preset. I would love to get that from a fluence set that can also do incredible clean tones like the townsends and just diversity in tone in general.

Guess the schecter is mahogany body and mahogany neck (edit: some sources say it's a maple neck with ebony fretboard... confusing), almost looks like the fretboard is actually part of the neck instead of different material. Is mahogany known for being extremely bright tonewood?

Any wisdom or suggestions that could be thrown my way would be appreciated. Thinking of trying the 18v or 24v mods, but I'm 95% convinced it's the guitars tonewood and there's not much getting around it


----------



## Warmart

washburned said:


> Hey guys, don't normally join forums but a lot of you guys seem to be into the similar stuff and have enjoying reading some discussions here
> 
> I just put a set of townsend fluences into a guitar... And they're crazy bright. Seems nearly impossible to get a smooth lead tone on the bridge. I'm thinking it's actually my guitar though. It's a Chris Poland signature schecter poltergeist, and every pickup I've ran in it is too bright for me, especially on the GBe strings, which is weird to me because Chris Poland always gets those warm and smooth tones, even on his bridge. I'm running my tones on my kemper into an apollo twin x via spdif, and have tried some sorcery to little avail
> 
> *Stock pickups (john gadesi handwound Pasadena/Plus):* too bright for me
> *Dimarzio Evolutions:* too bright for me (I thought maybe this was happening because of push pull pot wiring was lowering my output, these sounded great in a $500 ibanez I got in like 2008)
> *Townsend fluences:* too bright for me on the leads.... Could record some great rhythms with it though, insane clarity on each note in dense chords. I like them, but I really miss having some thickness/smoothness/mushiness on higher strings for leads as opposed to what I would describe as punchy but thin/brittle
> 
> Almost want to give up and get a new guitar. Sort of want that one borderline master of all trades guitar. I have a washburn renegade equipped with EMG 81/85 with 18v mod and I love the sound I get from them in that guitar. It can rip the percussive rhythms with a bright inflection/punch on the low strings, but still get that thick/warm tone on the higher strings without switching amp/preset. I would love to get that from a fluence set that can also do incredible clean tones like the townsends and just diversity in tone in general.
> 
> Guess the schecter is mahogany body and mahogany neck (edit: some sources say it's a maple neck with ebony fretboard... confusing), almost looks like the fretboard is actually part of the neck instead of different material. Is mahogany known for being extremely bright tonewood?
> 
> Any wisdom or suggestions that could be thrown my way would be appreciated. Thinking of trying the 18v or 24v mods, but I'm 95% convinced it's the guitars tonewood and there's not much getting around it


Sounds like you need to solder a wire from the hf tilt to ground. Could also try high cut on your Kemper. Think this is the 1st time I've heard anyone mention excessive brightness with the Townsend lol. Must be the particular guitar. Mahogany is generally known for warmth but ebony can add some brightness, but has to be the guitar in general.


----------



## Warmart

Hoss632 said:


> Not surprised you ended up liking voice 1 on these. Will's custom voice is probably the best sounding voice out of every pick up fishman has made IMO. 2nd for me is voice 2 on the classics. Guitar looks killer!


Totally agree, it's fantastic and thanks!


----------



## washburned

Warmart said:


> Sounds like you need to solder a wire from the hf tilt to ground. Could also try high cut on your Kemper. Think this is the 1st time I've heard anyone mention excessive brightness with the Townsend lol. Must be the particular guitar. Mahogany is generally known for warmth but ebony can add some brightness, but has to be the guitar in general.


Will try this tomorrow, appreciate the suggestion, hoping you're onto something here!

Should've mentioned, the way I wired them was essentially like the moderns, at the suggestion of fishman customer support. They just swapped out the pickup selector in the diagram for a gibson style 3 way selector which is what the schecter has and I wired for 2 push-pull tone pots, and one volume, that way I could have independent switches for coil tap and the passive voice.


----------



## washburned

Warmart said:


> Sounds like you need to solder a wire from the hf tilt to ground. Could also try high cut on your Kemper. Think this is the 1st time I've heard anyone mention excessive brightness with the Townsend lol. Must be the particular guitar. Mahogany is generally known for warmth but ebony can add some brightness, but has to be the guitar in general.


So I took some time to understand the wiring diagram as far in depth as I could in for about ~30 minutes. I definitely wired everything correctly. Unfortunately with the townsend fluences there is no hf tilt -- I guess the conclusion I've come to which you've supported is it's just the guitar, maybe a bit of it is my lack of affinity for dialing in tones in the limited context of direct into the kemper. I have had good luck with the renegade with the emg 81/85 though, just the intonation is a bit off with that one compared to the higher end guitars. The way I'm thinking, it shouldn't be too hard to dial in a good tone with a good guitar as the basis for what you want. As far as the schecter poltergeist maybe it's that ebony fretboard, did a little research on tonewoods and it does seem that's something that adds a good amount of brightness, it's like the EGb strings are like punchy ice picks for anything beyond rhythm. 

I would love to play some other guitars with the same pickups to see how they feel in different wood. Just doesn't seem that practical. Wish I could get ahold of a washburn WM 526, high end version of the renegades. Renegades have the dark and smooth tonality to them with the phenolic fretboard. Somewhat surprising to me that the guitar really means that much in terms of tone. Thinking about looking into the ibanez prestiges but really not sure.


----------



## Flappydoodle

washburned said:


> Hey guys, don't normally join forums but a lot of you guys seem to be into the similar stuff and have enjoying reading some discussions here
> 
> I just put a set of townsend fluences into a guitar... And they're crazy bright. Seems nearly impossible to get a smooth lead tone on the bridge. I'm thinking it's actually my guitar though. It's a Chris Poland signature schecter poltergeist, and every pickup I've ran in it is too bright for me, especially on the GBe strings, which is weird to me because Chris Poland always gets those warm and smooth tones, even on his bridge. I'm running my tones on my kemper into an apollo twin x via spdif, and have tried some sorcery to little avail
> 
> *Stock pickups (john gadesi handwound Pasadena/Plus):* too bright for me
> *Dimarzio Evolutions:* too bright for me (I thought maybe this was happening because of push pull pot wiring was lowering my output, these sounded great in a $500 ibanez I got in like 2008)
> *Townsend fluences:* too bright for me on the leads.... Could record some great rhythms with it though, insane clarity on each note in dense chords. I like them, but I really miss having some thickness/smoothness/mushiness on higher strings for leads as opposed to what I would describe as punchy but thin/brittle
> 
> Almost want to give up and get a new guitar. Sort of want that one borderline master of all trades guitar. I have a washburn renegade equipped with EMG 81/85 with 18v mod and I love the sound I get from them in that guitar. It can rip the percussive rhythms with a bright inflection/punch on the low strings, but still get that thick/warm tone on the higher strings without switching amp/preset. I would love to get that from a fluence set that can also do incredible clean tones like the townsends and just diversity in tone in general.
> 
> Guess the schecter is mahogany body and mahogany neck (edit: some sources say it's a maple neck with ebony fretboard... confusing), almost looks like the fretboard is actually part of the neck instead of different material. Is mahogany known for being extremely bright tonewood?
> 
> Any wisdom or suggestions that could be thrown my way would be appreciated. Thinking of trying the 18v or 24v mods, but I'm 95% convinced it's the guitars tonewood and there's not much getting around it


Does the bright guitar have a tone knob?

Running any pickup without the tone knob in the circuit makes it brighter. Even with the tone set on 10, it's probably still affecting the sound.


----------



## Warmart

washburned said:


> So I took some time to understand the wiring diagram as far in depth as I could in for about ~30 minutes. I definitely wired everything correctly. Unfortunately with the townsend fluences there is no hf tilt -- I guess the conclusion I've come to which you've supported is it's just the guitar, maybe a bit of it is my lack of affinity for dialing in tones in the limited context of direct into the kemper. I have had good luck with the renegade with the emg 81/85 though, just the intonation is a bit off with that one compared to the higher end guitars. The way I'm thinking, it shouldn't be too hard to dial in a good tone with a good guitar as the basis for what you want. As far as the schecter poltergeist maybe it's that ebony fretboard, did a little research on tonewoods and it does seem that's something that adds a good amount of brightness, it's like the EGb strings are like punchy ice picks for anything beyond rhythm.
> 
> I would love to play some other guitars with the same pickups to see how they feel in different wood. Just doesn't seem that practical. Wish I could get ahold of a washburn WM 526, high end version of the renegades. Renegades have the dark and smooth tonality to them with the phenolic fretboard. Somewhat surprising to me that the guitar really means that much in terms of tone. Thinking about looking into the ibanez prestiges but really not sure.


Damn, surprised there's no hf tilt, thought it was on all Fishmans. So you can easily add a high cut to your Kemper or lower the treble side of the pu's.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sometimes you just get a bright guitar. Guitars aren't 100% consistent. 

Also TBH I stopped giving a shit about tonewoods. I've had mahogany Les Paul-esque slabs that were sharper than razors, and swamp ash guitars with maple necks that were dull and flubby. 

But it's surprising to hear the Dev set is too harsh because, IIRC, it's one of the darker Fishman sets.

Maybe try the new Fluff bridge pickup? Judging by how Fluff described it and how it sounds in clips, it's probably the darkest, most rounded off Fishman pickup.


----------



## washburned

Flappydoodle said:


> Does the bright guitar have a tone knob?
> 
> Running any pickup without the tone knob in the circuit makes it brighter. Even with the tone set on 10, it's probably still affecting the sound.


Yup 2 tone one 1 volume config so that shouldn't be a problem I don't think


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sometimes you just get a bright guitar. Guitars aren't 100% consistent.
> 
> Also TBH I stopped giving a shit about tonewoods. I've had mahogany Les Paul-esque slabs that were sharper than razors, and swamp ash guitars with maple necks that were dull and flubby.
> 
> But it's surprising to hear the Dev set is too harsh because, IIRC, it's one of the darker Fishman sets.
> 
> Maybe try the new Fluff bridge pickup? Judging by how Fluff described it and how it sounds in clips, it's probably the darkest, most rounded off Fishman pickup.


This seems to make sense since even the same types of wood have to vary from cut to cut. I might check those pickups out. Curious what most people think about the comparison of these various fluence flavors to the emg81/85. I think my goal is to essentially convincingly replace those but still get all the different tones the fishman provide. i.e. great single coil passive voices, low to mid range tones, and of course what the standard emg's do best which is high gain


Warmart said:


> Damn, surprised there's no hf tilt, thought it was on all Fishmans. So you can easily add a high cut to your Kemper or lower the treble side of the pu's.


You mean just lower the bridge pickup? I've tried that a bit, the high cuts too. Guess I just can't get around the tonal character of the guitar for every context


----------



## Warmart

washburned said:


> You mean just lower the bridge pickup? I've tried that a bit, the high cuts too. Guess I just can't get around the tonal character of the guitar for every context


Yes, but just the treble side, I had to do that on a couple guitars to rid them of icepickiness. Then again, this just may not be the guitar for you bro, or maybe you need to put the 81/85 back in and call it a day.


----------



## Tree

Has anyone had any success in making Fluences sound a bit “looser”? That’s the best way I can describe it. This video does a good job displaying what I mean:



The 707 is comparatively bigger, whereas the Fluences in both voicings are tight to a fault IMO, and sound over processed. It’s not a 1:1 comparison but I’ve got the Abasi set in a guitar, and I’m trying to cop a tone and feel more similar to the 707s, or something else. I prefer much more traditional tones, and prefer passives 99% of the time, so I’m not digging the Abasis all too much for distorted rhythm tones. I love them for cleans and even leads, so I don’t want to ditch them outright.

I’m just spitballing/theorizing ideas at this point. I’m hoping some EQ before anything else in the chain could help, but don’t have my stuff in front of me to try, and don’t know when I’ll get the chance to really sit down and give it a go.

*Edit:* I’m not saying I want the tone he used in the video, just the overall characteristic of the pickup compared to the Fluence, if possible.


----------



## lewis

Tree said:


> *Has anyone had any success in making Fluences sound a bit “looser”?* That’s the best way I can describe it. This video does a good job displaying what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> The 707 is comparatively bigger, whereas the Fluences in both voicings are tight to a fault IMO, and sound over processed. It’s not a 1:1 comparison but I’ve got the Abasi set in a guitar, and I’m trying to cop a tone and feel more similar to the 707s, or something else. I prefer much more traditional tones, and prefer passives 99% of the time, so I’m not digging the Abasis all too much for distorted rhythm tones. I love them for cleans and even leads, so I don’t want to ditch them outright.
> 
> I’m just spitballing/theorizing ideas at this point. I’m hoping some EQ before anything else in the chain could help, but don’t have my stuff in front of me to try, and don’t know when I’ll get the chance to really sit down and give it a go.
> 
> *Edit:* I’m not saying I want the tone he used in the video, just the overall characteristic of the pickup compared to the Fluence, if possible.



I did.
What I done was, unplug them and plug in something else lol.

They're tighter than a Nun. It's just not possible to get Fishmans to feel and sound loose.


----------



## cmpxchg

Tree said:


> Has anyone had any success in making Fluences sound a bit “looser”? That’s the best way I can describe it.


I've been going back and forth on Javier Fluences to replace my Moderns for a while to see if those work better. I have such a hard time with the Moderns. They don't sound bad, but something about the feel seems so off compared to all of my other guitars.


----------



## BearOnGuitar

Tree said:


> Has anyone had any success in making Fluences sound a bit “looser”? That’s the best way I can describe it. This video does a good job displaying what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> The 707 is comparatively bigger, whereas the Fluences in both voicings are tight to a fault IMO, and sound over processed. It’s not a 1:1 comparison but I’ve got the Abasi set in a guitar, and I’m trying to cop a tone and feel more similar to the 707s, or something else. I prefer much more traditional tones, and prefer passives 99% of the time, so I’m not digging the Abasis all too much for distorted rhythm tones. I love them for cleans and even leads, so I don’t want to ditch them outright.
> 
> I’m just spitballing/theorizing ideas at this point. I’m hoping some EQ before anything else in the chain could help, but don’t have my stuff in front of me to try, and don’t know when I’ll get the chance to really sit down and give it a go.
> 
> *Edit:* I’m not saying I want the tone he used in the video, just the overall characteristic of the pickup compared to the Fluence, if possible.



You can always make pickups sound tighter by using a boost pedal and lowering the bass control on the amp, but there is no way to make an already tight pickup sound fat and loose, which is why I don't like to use super tight pickups as a starting point. You can get better results by swapping the Alnico into the bridge position, which is quite a bit larger sounding and more dynamic. I personally find the Carpenter set to be the most passive like sounding and feeling set when used in v2, which is tuned to sound more fat and loose, and they increased the current draw on the bridge pickup, which helps to retain better transient response and picking dynamics. Out of all Fluence sets I tried these have the most passive like feel and dynamics, but are unfortunately only available in 7 and 8 string soapbars.


----------



## Tree

lewis said:


> I did.
> What I done was, unplug them and plug in something else lol.
> 
> They're tighter than a Nun. It's just not possible to get Fishmans to feel and sound loose.




I’m honestly contemplating getting a 707 to toss in the bridge since they go for dirt cheap used. They’re a direct swap with the pins, right? Just without the 5-pin Fishman uses.

The only issue there, is I *LOVE *the clean tones I get in position 2 with the Abasis. They’re so ridiculously pristine.


cmpxchg said:


> I've been going back and forth on Javier Fluences to replace my Moderns for a while to see if those work better. I have such a hard time with the Moderns. They don't sound bad, but something about the feel seems so off compared to all of my other guitars.


Personally, I don’t think the tone is bad. And for the record, it translates for mixing and recording insanely well. I just don’t vibe with it when I’m playing. They don’t feel and respond the way I want.


BearOnGuitar said:


> You can always make pickups sound tighter by using a boost pedal and lowering the bass control on the amp, but there is no way to make an already tight pickup sound fat and loose, which is why I don't like to use super tight pickups as a starting point. You can get better results by swapping the Alnico into the bridge position, which is quite a bit larger sounding and more dynamic. I personally find the Carpenter set to be the most passive like sounding and feeling set when used in v2, which is tuned to sound more fat and loose, and they increased the current draw on the bridge pickup, which helps to retain better transient response and picking dynamics. Out of all Fluence sets I tried these have the most passive like feel and dynamics, but are unfortunately only available in 7 and 8 string soapbars.


Lucky for me, I’m stuck using soapbars in this particular guitar until I fork out the cash for a proper multi-scale passive set. I haven’t even measured the angle yet, but I assume it’s similar to Kiesel’s for a 27-25.5” fan.

Ideally I’d love a Black Winter bridge and D Activator neck, but alas neither are produced in the format I need, nor am I in the position to custom order the BW or pay someone to mod the D Activator.


----------



## lewis

Tree said:


> I’m honestly contemplating getting a 707 to toss in the bridge since they go for dirt cheap used. They’re a direct swap with the pins, right? Just without the 5-pin Fishman uses.
> 
> The only issue there, is I *LOVE *the clean tones I get in position 2 with the Abasis. They’re so ridiculously pristine.
> 
> Personally, I don’t think the tone is bad. And for the record, it translates for mixing and recording insanely well. I just don’t vibe with it when I’m playing. They don’t feel and respond the way I want.
> 
> Lucky for me, I’m stuck using soapbars in this particular guitar until I fork out the cash for a proper multi-scale passive set. I haven’t even measured the angle yet, but I assume it’s similar to Kiesel’s for a 27-25.5” fan.
> 
> Ideally I’d love a Black Winter bridge and D Activator neck, but alas neither are produced in the format I need, nor am I in the position to custom order the BW or pay someone to mod the D Activator.


Well I used the EMG solderless kit with my Fishmans and that worked fine. Not sure about the other way around (fishman pots with EMG pickups) but I imagine it's the same?

Either way the 707s are fantastic


----------



## PK317

cmpxchg said:


> I've been going back and forth on Javier Fluences to replace my Moderns for a while to see if those work better. I have such a hard time with the Moderns. They don't sound bad, but something about the feel seems so off compared to all of my other guitars.


Javier's set is my second best now, after Abasi. It sounds looser than Abasi for sure, but I don't remember the sound of Moderns, had it long time ago, so cannot compare it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tree said:


> I’m honestly contemplating getting a 707 to toss in the bridge since they go for dirt cheap used. They’re a direct swap with the pins, right? Just without the 5-pin Fishman uses.
> 
> The only issue there, is I *LOVE *the clean tones I get in position 2 with the Abasis. They’re so ridiculously pristine.
> 
> Personally, I don’t think the tone is bad. And for the record, it translates for mixing and recording insanely well. I just don’t vibe with it when I’m playing. They don’t feel and respond the way I want.
> 
> Lucky for me, I’m stuck using soapbars in this particular guitar until I fork out the cash for a proper multi-scale passive set. I haven’t even measured the angle yet, but I assume it’s similar to Kiesel’s for a 27-25.5” fan.
> 
> Ideally I’d love a Black Winter bridge and D Activator neck, but alas neither are produced in the format I need, nor am I in the position to custom order the BW or pay someone to mod the D Activator.


buy regular sized passives, slap a soapbar cover on em.


----------



## The Monster With .

Tree said:


> I’m honestly contemplating getting a 707 to toss in the bridge since they go for dirt cheap used. They’re a direct swap with the pins, right? Just without the 5-pin Fishman uses.
> 
> The only issue there, is I *LOVE *the clean tones I get in position 2 with the Abasis. They’re so ridiculously pristine.
> 
> Personally, I don’t think the tone is bad. And for the record, it translates for mixing and recording insanely well. I just don’t vibe with it when I’m playing. They don’t feel and respond the way I want.
> 
> Lucky for me, I’m stuck using soapbars in this particular guitar until I fork out the cash for a proper multi-scale passive set. I haven’t even measured the angle yet, but I assume it’s similar to Kiesel’s for a 27-25.5” fan.
> 
> Ideally I’d love a Black Winter bridge and D Activator neck, but alas neither are produced in the format I need, nor am I in the position to custom order the BW or pay someone to mod the D Activator.


Yeah it should work just fine. The power-ground-output pins on the emg's and the fishman's are the same.


----------



## Tree

KnightBrolaire said:


> buy regular sized passives, slap a soapbar cover on em.



I don’t have a reasonable workspace to do a baseplate swap properly for the fan, or even the baseplate itself.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tree said:


> I don’t have a reasonable workspace to do a baseplate swap properly for the fan, or even the baseplate itself.


no baseplates needed. the covers are purely for aesthetics.


----------



## Tree

KnightBrolaire said:


> no baseplates needed. the covers are purely for aesthetics.


I’m honestly not even sure where to look for decent Multiscale pickups that aren’t boutique prices. I wish SD and DMZ would get with the program already. 

I’m not super fond of Kiesel’s offerings, but it’s also been a hot minute since I’ve tried them. 

Unless you’re suggesting that the pole alignment wouldn’t be too big an issue, like I’ve been lead to believe.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Tree said:


> I’m honestly not even sure where to look for decent Multiscale pickups that aren’t boutique prices. I wish SD and DMZ would get with the program already.
> 
> I’m not super fond of Kiesel’s offerings, but it’s also been a hot minute since I’ve tried them.
> 
> Unless you’re suggesting that the pole alignment wouldn’t be too big an issue, like I’ve been lead to believe.


pole alignment isn't really that big a deal ime. Aesthetically yeah it's nice when stuff lines up, but the magnetic fields of pickup poles are usually plenty big enough that it's not very critical to have them line up exactly.

If you want to do a baseplate swap all you need is a screwdriver tbh.


----------



## PK317

Tree said:


> Unless you’re suggesting that the pole alignment wouldn’t be too big an issue, like I’ve been lead to believe.


I installed Javier set on multiscale. Well, look is not awesome, but ok, better than I expected. Soundwise, I personally did not hear any volume drops between the strings and don't feel any difference while playing (compared to regular guitars with perfectly aligned pole pieces). Maybe more experienced folks will notice some difference, but for me it works just fine.


----------



## Tree

KnightBrolaire said:


> pole alignment isn't really that big a deal ime. Aesthetically yeah it's nice when stuff lines up, but the magnetic fields of pickup poles are usually plenty big enough that it's not very critical to have them line up exactly.
> 
> If you want to do a baseplate swap all you need is a screwdriver tbh.





PK317 said:


> I installed Javier set on multiscale. Well, look is not awesome, but ok, better than I expected. Soundwise, I personally did not hear any volume drops between the strings and don't feel any difference while playing (compared to regular guitars with perfectly aligned pole pieces). Maybe more experienced folks will notice some difference, but for me it works just fine.


Good to hear on both accounts! Now I need to narrow down my choices. Fucking hell, this never ends


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Tree said:


> Has anyone had any success in making Fluences sound a bit “looser”? That’s the best way I can describe it. This video does a good job displaying what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> The 707 is comparatively bigger, whereas the Fluences in both voicings are tight to a fault IMO, and sound over processed. It’s not a 1:1 comparison but I’ve got the Abasi set in a guitar, and I’m trying to cop a tone and feel more similar to the 707s, or something else. I prefer much more traditional tones, and prefer passives 99% of the time, so I’m not digging the Abasis all too much for distorted rhythm tones. I love them for cleans and even leads, so I don’t want to ditch them outright.
> 
> I’m just spitballing/theorizing ideas at this point. I’m hoping some EQ before anything else in the chain could help, but don’t have my stuff in front of me to try, and don’t know when I’ll get the chance to really sit down and give it a go.
> 
> *Edit:* I’m not saying I want the tone he used in the video, just the overall characteristic of the pickup compared to the Fluence, if possible.



I think the Stef set has more bass compared to the other Fluence Moderns. Otherwise yeah, you don't want a Fishman set. 

Have you looked into the 57/66 set?


----------



## Tree

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the Stef set has more bass compared to the other Fluence Moderns. Otherwise yeah, you don't want a Fishman set.
> 
> Have you looked into the 57/66 set?


Yeah, more bass in and of itself isn’t exactly the issue. Voice 2 in the Abasis is so bass heavy it’s almost tubby like a single coil.

I was actually thinking of the 57/66 set initially because I love them in my 6 string Horizon. I discounted them quickly though because of the pole piece issue, but as others have been chiming in, it may not be as big a deal even with multiscale.

Does anyone know if I could get one of the EMG TW sets and use that with the same wiring I have for the Fishman set? I’ve got it set up with a 5-way super switch, and 1 Volume as a push-pull. I’m lazy and getting this set wired correctly was hell


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Tree said:


> Does anyone know if I could get one of the EMG TW sets and use that with the same wiring I have for the Fishman set? I’ve got it set up with a 5-way super switch, and 1 Volume as a push-pull. I’m lazy and getting this set wired correctly was hell



From what I can tell EMG uses a completely different switching system. Fluence is more like your standard passive wiring. EMG's... isn't.


----------



## Tree

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> From what I can tell EMG uses a completely different switching system. Fluence is more like your standard passive wiring. EMG's... isn't.


Damn, oh well. It’s not the most important thing in the world.


----------



## PK317

Tree said:


> Good to hear on both accounts! Now I need to narrow down my choices. Fucking hell, this never ends


Never


----------



## slavboi_delight

I am about to change pickups in my ec1000. Stuck between the SH5/SH2 combo and the Fluence Modern again. Right now i have a pair of Titans in it, just want to try something different. I know the Fluences and i know the JB but has anybody any experience with the SH5 in comparison to the Titan bridge especially? I am not to fond of the Titan neck as well and i love the SH1. So if anybody can chime in would be great.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

D


slavboi_delight said:


> I am about to change pickups in my ec1000. Stuck between the SH5/SH2 combo and the Fluence Modern again. Right now i have a pair of Titans in it, just want to try something different. I know the Fluences and i know the JB but has anybody any experience with the SH5 in comparison to the Titan bridge especially? I am not to fond of the Titan neck as well and i love the SH1. So if anybody can chime in would be great.


Do you want medium-high output with relaxed mids and a bright treble (SH-5) or Flamin' Hot All Mids (Fluence Modern).
Also the Jazz is in the same vein as the '59. More treble and less lows.


----------



## slavboi_delight

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> D
> 
> Do you want medium-high output with relaxed mids and a bright treble (SH-5) or Flamin' Hot All Mids (Fluence Modern).
> Also the Jazz is in the same vein as the '59. More treble and less lows.


Hard to tell. The Titans feel and play very flat at some point. Especially going back and forth between JB and the Titan. 
The Fluence i don't know. The Townsends i have already sound very, ah, artificial i guess. I try to avoid that as much as i can.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

slavboi_delight said:


> I am about to change pickups in my ec1000. Stuck between the SH5/SH2 combo and the Fluence Modern again. Right now i have a pair of Titans in it, just want to try something different. I know the Fluences and i know the JB but has anybody any experience with the SH5 in comparison to the Titan bridge especially? I am not to fond of the Titan neck as well and i love the SH1. So if anybody can chime in would be great.


sh5 is more upper mid heavy than the titans. Bigger low end too. Grindy mids. I don't remember if it has more output or not but it feels a bit hotter and more saturated.
Titan is much drier feeling and darker on the high end ime.


----------



## zjb7777

slavboi_delight said:


> I am about to change pickups in my ec1000. Stuck between the SH5/SH2 combo and the Fluence Modern again. Right now i have a pair of Titans in it, just want to try something different. I know the Fluences and i know the JB but has anybody any experience with the SH5 in comparison to the Titan bridge especially? I am not to fond of the Titan neck as well and i love the SH1. So if anybody can chime in would be great.


The SH-5 is by far my favorite pickup Duncan makes, and is one of my top 5 favorites I've tried. I have little play time on a 6 string Titan but I have them in my main 7 string.

I'll echo JazzHands above in that the low mids on the SH-5 are relaxed, but not scooped, and is one of the more agressive sounding passive pickups I've tried. In my experience, I haven't used a better pickup for both E Standard and low tunings all the way to drop A. Excellent note separation in big chords.

The Titan is too honky for my taste in E standard, but sounds much better in drop C and below, they're more pronounced in the low mids and less pronounced in the upper mids and highs. I feel like higher notes can sometimes get lost in big chords, but low note separation is very good.


----------



## slavboi_delight

zjb7777 said:


> The SH-5 is by far my favorite pickup Duncan makes, and is one of my top 5 favorites I've tried. I have little play time on a 6 string Titan but I have them in my main 7 string.
> 
> I'll echo JazzHands above in that the low mids on the SH-5 are relaxed, but not scooped, and is one of the more agressive sounding passive pickups I've tried. In my experience, I haven't used a better pickup for both E Standard and low tunings all the way to drop A. Excellent note separation in big chords.
> 
> The Titan is too honky for my taste in E standard, but sounds much better in drop C and below, they're more pronounced in the low mids and less pronounced in the upper mids and highs. I feel like higher notes can sometimes get lost in big chords, but low note separation is very good.


Honky is a good way to describe the Titan, other than that anemic would have been my second way to describe them 

I snatched the sh5/sh2 combo for 160 euros, because the prices for duncans skyrocketed on thomann (249 now iirc) 

Sh5 compared to the sh4?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

slavboi_delight said:


> Honky is a good way to describe the Titan, other than that anemic would have been my second way to describe them
> 
> I snatched the sh5/sh2 combo for 160 euros, because the prices for duncans skyrocketed on thomann (249 now iirc)
> 
> Sh5 compared to the sh4?


Less midrange and output, bigger but tighter bass, both are about as bright as each other. Much prefer the Custom as i find its a MUCH less picky pickup


----------



## slavboi_delight

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Less midrange and output, bigger but tighter bass, both are about as bright as each other. Much prefer the Custom as i find its a MUCH less picky pickup


Sounds like what i am looking for 
Thanks alot 

You saved my bank account once again haha


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

slavboi_delight said:


> Sounds like what i am looking for
> Thanks alot
> 
> You saved my bank account once again haha


No problem. 
I had a brief JB phase where I thought it was a killer pickup. Then I tried it in other guitars and noticed I wasn't getting the same kinda love, so I swore off of it. The Custom was much less choosy of what guitar it was in. 

FWIW, we just had another thread where someone wasn't gelling with the Black Winter because it was too middy and "djenty", and switching to a Custom solved his problems.


----------



## slavboi_delight

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> No problem.
> I had a brief JB phase where I thought it was a killer pickup. Then I tried it in other guitars and noticed I wasn't getting the same kinda love, so I swore off of it. The Custom was much less choosy of what guitar it was in.
> 
> FWIW, we just had another thread where someone wasn't gelling with the Black Winter because it was too middy and "djenty", and switching to a Custom solved his problems.


I use a JB in an M2. I dig it. But like you mentioned it is very sensitive. Still cool though, super hairy and upper middy. 

I actually followed that thread and wanted to get som BW but they cost a fortune now, it is insane. 
Figured i like "old" pickups way more than "new" pickups, for whatever reason everything i tried sounds very boxy and congested except for the JB and the 81 (which is and will always be a hate/love pickup).


----------



## jco5055

I was thinking about using a set (not decided yet on specifics), for a build, but also thinking of doing 27 frets thanks to my Caparison experience.

I know most builders do a HS config, but would there be any issues doing a HH config with slanted neck pickup? Or is it basically the same as doing the HS config in terms of pros/cons? 

It’s a little unfortunate that fishman seems to have no desire to do any kind of update to their single coils.


----------



## lewis

Is there conventional magnets inside fishmans? I assume so despite the printed board and new tech?

In which case I'm assuming the Moderns have ceramics? I think I would prefer them had they had Alnico. That top end stuff you get from ceramic magnets added to the cocked wah type eq of the Moderns, is too much for me.
Alnico may have balanced them way better.


----------



## Hoss632

lewis said:


> Is there conventional magnets inside fishmans? I assume so despite the printed board and new tech?
> 
> In which case I'm assuming the Moderns have ceramics? I think I would prefer them had they had Alnico. That top end stuff you get from ceramic magnets added to the cocked wah type eq of the Moderns, is too much for me.
> Alnico may have balanced them way better.


Yes sir the moderns bridge has a Ceramic and Alnico option. And you are spot on with the Alnico being more rounded tonally than the ceramic version. May still not be to everyone's liking but definitely not quite as top end heavy. It's pretty much the closest thing fishman has to the EMG 81 or 85 to my ears.


----------



## lewis

Hoss632 said:


> Yes sir the moderns bridge has a Ceramic and Alnico option. And you are spot on with the Alnico being more rounded tonally than the ceramic version. May still not be to everyone's liking but definitely not quite as top end heavy. It's pretty much the closest thing fishman has to the EMG 81 or 85 to my ears.


Really good to know.
I wish I had known that years ago when I ordered my Moderns because I would have tried them in Alnico instead and likely enjoyed them far more over the years.


----------



## Hoss632

lewis said:


> Really good to know.
> I wish I had known that years ago when I ordered my Moderns because I would have tried them in Alnico instead and likely enjoyed them far more over the years.


Possibly. To my ear the 81 and for sure 85 still have more low end comparatively.


----------



## lewis

Hoss632 said:


> Possibly. To my ear the 81 and for sure 85 still have more low end comparatively.


Jesus really?
That's the issue I've got really. They're tight and hifi to a fault.

When I had my ax8 (which I sold because it was already too hifi/focused sounding) and gigged with the Moderns, I remember having patches with bass and mids MAXED and it still sounded like I had none of each lol.

Those pickups with that unit was just a match made in hell.
They almost need a loose/thick sounding amp to balance them out.


----------



## Hoss632

lewis said:


> Jesus really?
> That's the issue I've got really. They're tight and hifi to a fault.
> 
> When I had my ax8 (which I sold because it was already too hifi/focused sounding) and gigged with the Moderns, I remember having patches with bass and mids MAXED and it still sounded like I had none of each lol.
> 
> Those pickups with that unit was just a match made in hell.
> They almost need a loose/thick sounding amp to balance them out.


Here's a couple halfway decent comparos. Alnico vs a 81, 85 and the 57. Should be clear enough that you can hear what I mean about the low end. The Modern Alnico definitely has more, and not really hi-fi like the ceramic. But the 81 still has a touch more in the lower mids to my ear. Moderns vs EMG's i'm in camp EMG for the most part. But Fishman Will Adler's are probably my favorite sounding active pups, particularly his voice 1.


----------



## lewis

Hoss632 said:


> Here's a couple halfway decent comparos. Alnico vs a 81, 85 and the 57. Should be clear enough that you can hear what I mean about the low end. The Modern Alnico definitely has more, and not really hi-fi like the ceramic. But the 81 still has a touch more in the lower mids to my ear. Moderns vs EMG's i'm in camp EMG for the most part. But Fishman Will Adler's are probably my favorite sounding active pups, particularly his voice 1.



These comparisons are great and what you said is spot on to me too. They do have less bass than EMGs still!
Im getting more and more impressed with the sound of 85s in the bridge and also that 57 sounds really nice.
Im going to have to finally get around to trying more EMGs soon. Ive been a dual 81 and done kinda guy for years now. I might get dual 85s for my Baritone just to be different. Then buy another Bari and try the 57's
The thing I dislike about my ceramic modern, im still hearing in the alnico version above (all be it much less prominent)


----------



## Hoss632

lewis said:


> These comparisons are great and what you said is spot on to me too. They do have less bass than EMGs still!
> Im getting more and more impressed with the sound of 85s in the bridge and also that 57 sounds really nice.
> Im going to have to finally get around to trying more EMGs soon. Ive been a dual 81 and done kinda guy for years now. I might get dual 85s for my Baritone just to be different. Then buy another Bari and try the 57's
> The thing I dislike about my ceramic modern, im still hearing in the alnico version above (all be it much less prominent)


Between the 81 and 85, I prefer the 85 more as well, though I still feel in tunings below Drop C the 81 shines more than the 85. The tighter low end really helps it I think. the 57/66 combo is one I really want to try, especially in a 7 string.


----------



## Tree

So, as a certified Neanderthal, somehow the thought never occurred to me to change the bass settings on my amp block to counteract how bassy V2 is in the bridge position with the Abasi’s. 

With that said, V2 is sick and has at least, for now, killed my urge to swap pickups. I’m probably going to stockpile some EMGs so I can hot swap whenever my ears get sick of one or the other.


----------



## juka

lewis said:


> These comparisons are great and what you said is spot on to me too. They do have less bass than EMGs still!
> Im getting more and more impressed with the sound of 85s in the bridge and also that 57 sounds really nice.
> Im going to have to finally get around to trying more EMGs soon. Ive been a dual 81 and done kinda guy for years now. I might get dual 85s for my Baritone just to be different. Then buy another Bari and try the 57's
> The thing I dislike about my ceramic modern, im still hearing in the alnico version above (all be it much less prominent)


Don't want to derail that thread because there's also a very active EMG thread on this forum, but at the time I still was playing 6string only I loved the 85 in the bridge position and the 57 when it came out. Had at least 6 sets of each and although my ears are not so good each one sounded noticeable different. In the end this massive inconsistency drove me in the arms of Fluence and the fact that I never bonded with the 7string versions of the EMGs. I found Fluence not only way more consistent in-between sets but also between 6- and 7string versions of each pickup.
Now I love my Classic 7 open core sets the most. Really underrated pickups!


----------



## juka

So Polyphia just have been announced as newest addition to the Fluence rooster.
Although this hasn't been said in the official press release, Ken Susi indicated in his weekly live that both guitar players will get signature/custom sets.
Not sure how much their sets really will differ from the open core classics, but always looking forward to new additions to the Fluence line and hoping that they will not be 6string only.


----------



## Hoss632

That'll be pretty cool. I know Tosin and Javier have already shown fishman's can be very versatile with their style of play. So I'd imagine Scott and Tim will show that even further. Wouldn't be surprised if they do the 5 way super switch set up.


----------



## Xaeldaren

The LACS guitars that they've been using in basically every music video for the new album have been two-humbucker guitars, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were Fishmans with the single-coil voicing.


----------



## Kellz

Hi guys, I was wondering if I can get some info on how to properly set up my fishman fluence modern 7 string set in my schecter c7 sls elite. I find them super harsh on my ears even after rolling back the tone and volume knob. I'm thinking about selling my otherwise really nice guitar because of that. 

I did a lot of research about the recommended pickup hight and did it by ear aswell but found no success in both. Even lowering them super low almost makes no difference because of the nature of active pickups. There is so much rustle, hiss and swoosh in the pickups it honestly drives me crazy no matter the pickup hight. 

I use neural dsp plugins (gojira, john petrucci, fortin cali suite) connected to a focusrite scarlett audio interface connected with headphones or studio monitors. All high quality stuff.

Is it correct to put them at an angle as you see in the pictures to have the same distance to the high and low strings or is it better to have them straight ? Do you have any recommendations for me? Swapping out the pickups is no option for me I rather sell the guitar. Could there be a technical problem? 

I did swap the battery multiple times aswell. 

What else can I do directly on the guitar? Any help is very appreciated because I'm out of solutions


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Are you saying the pickups are noisy or just harsh sounding. The Fluence Moderns are notorious for being very midrangey and bright. They just might not be your thing.


----------



## Kellz

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Are you saying the pickups are noisy or just harsh sounding. The Fluence Moderns are notorious for being very midrangey and bright. They just might not be your thing.


Yes exactly, I was just thinking maybe I can make them sound better to my ear or I have them set up wrong but I kind of lost hope by now. Such a beautiful guitar really unfortunate selling it off.


----------



## zjb7777

Kellz said:


> Yes exactly, I was just thinking maybe I can make them sound better to my ear or I have them set up wrong but I kind of lost hope by now. Such a beautiful guitar really unfortunate selling it off.


You may have better luck with the Tosin Abasi set. I really liked them but ended up selling the 7 string they were in. To me they're a bit less harsh and midrange focused than the Moderns. You could also try swapping the pickups around so the Alnico is in the bridge, that's the only way I really like the modern set honestly.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

So, any news, rumors, speculation on the extended range Fluence single coil pickups?


----------



## Alberto7

Kellz said:


> Hi guys, I was wondering if I can get some info on how to properly set up my fishman fluence modern 7 string set in my schecter c7 sls elite. I find them super harsh on my ears even after rolling back the tone and volume knob. I'm thinking about selling my otherwise really nice guitar because of that.
> 
> I did a lot of research about the recommended pickup hight and did it by ear aswell but found no success in both. Even lowering them super low almost makes no difference because of the nature of active pickups. There is so much rustle, hiss and swoosh in the pickups it honestly drives me crazy no matter the pickup hight.
> 
> I use neural dsp plugins (gojira, john petrucci, fortin cali suite) connected to a focusrite scarlett audio interface connected with headphones or studio monitors. All high quality stuff.
> 
> Is it correct to put them at an angle as you see in the pictures to have the same distance to the high and low strings or is it better to have them straight ? Do you have any recommendations for me? Swapping out the pickups is no option for me I rather sell the guitar. Could there be a technical problem?
> 
> I did swap the battery multiple times aswell.
> 
> What else can I do directly on the guitar? Any help is very appreciated because I'm out of solutions
> 
> View attachment 117136
> View attachment 117137
> View attachment 117138



It took me time to learn to deal with my Strandberg with Moderns in it. It did the one thing very well (dj0nt), but I struggled with anything else. It's just an extremely mid-rangey setup on that guitar.

I find that it's all in the EQing of it. I basically try to cut high mids a bit and boost bass frequencies to make them a bit more robust sounding and less shrill. I also use NDSP plugins almost exclusively, (including the ones you mentioned) and an EQ in your DAW on your input signal (or a physical EQ pedal before your DAI) works best to control what goes into your amp. I almost always use Voice 2 (the passive voice) for something a little bit flatter and tame, EQ wise. I use Voice 1 almost as a boost only. I found that pickup height only does so much with the Moderns.

Also, you're not helping yourself by using Gojira, Petrucci, and Cali with Moderns.  I find it's really easy to go super wild with the mid range on those plugins, especially Gojira. Holy crap the mids on that thing are ridiculous, even with the knobs at 12 o clock. Cali is just pretty fizzy overall, and Petrucci just dials in very differently. (I find myself a lot more reliant on the EQ section of the plugin.) Not to say they aren't all fantastic plugins, they are, but I find their mid to high mid ranges are a little wild.


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## Hoss632

Kellz said:


> Yes exactly, I was just thinking maybe I can make them sound better to my ear or I have them set up wrong but I kind of lost hope by now. Such a beautiful guitar really unfortunate selling it off.


Couple of suggestions. Not sure if both pick ups for you sound overly bright or just mainly the bridge. if it's the bridge maybe swap them around as the neck is an alnico set up vs ceramic so might mellow the brightness. Also you can get a hi frequency "tilt" I think it's called from fishman that can help roll the highs off.


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## mrvomit

Kellz said:


> Yes exactly, I was just thinking maybe I can make them sound better to my ear or I have them set up wrong but I kind of lost hope by now. Such a beautiful guitar really unfortunate selling it off.


YEah i did post a while back about to swap position of pu's ( for me works better .. still.. i prefer passives i cant get in love with those and 707s neither , but soapbar size forced me ).
MOREover , mandatory i.mo is to place/ activate the -5db jumper on both pu's 
Then you can engage hf- tilt but if you want to try without to mess with solders and/or remove pickups all the time :
As i did post a while back = take jumper wires + pc jumpers on am**n to do that externally and compare on the fly without installing /soldering pots ( look for a previous post of mine here ) . 
Let pass wires from pu's into cavity and let them go out from back so you can add jumper to wires , that would also decide what to leave as "fixed" later on


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## cmpxchg

Replaced the Moderns that came in my Duvell with Javier Reyes yesterday. Pain in the ass to install due to how the Moderns were split (I still don't really understand the modern coil tap wiring), but honeymoon review of the Javiers:

- Javier bridge is way more to my taste than the Modern. lower output, no big mid honk, way more like a medium-hot passive (reminds me more of a Nailbomb than the Modern for sure)
- the neck is thiccc. probably need to play with pickup height more. when I first tried them and the neck was too high, it sounded like a fuzz
- bridge + neck in single coil sound great! dang!
- doesn't quite "feel" like a passive set, but it's a lot closer than the Moderns. figure I'll give these a shot, and if I just can't gel with them after a while, I'll pick up some Elysians or something.


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## PK317

cmpxchg said:


> Replaced the Moderns that came in my Duvell with Javier Reyes yesterday. Pain in the ass to install due to how the Moderns were split (I still don't really understand the modern coil tap wiring), but honeymoon review of the Javiers:
> 
> - Javier bridge is way more to my taste than the Modern. lower output, no big mid honk, way more like a medium-hot passive (reminds me more of a Nailbomb than the Modern for sure)
> - the neck is thiccc. probably need to play with pickup height more. when I first tried them and the neck was too high, it sounded like a fuzz
> - bridge + neck in single coil sound great! dang!
> - doesn't quite "feel" like a passive set, but it's a lot closer than the Moderns. figure I'll give these a shot, and if I just can't gel with them after a while, I'll pick up some Elysians or something.


Javier and Abasi are my two favorite sets. Ironically, I don't like their music so much, but the pickups are awesome!


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## lewis

Kyle Jordan said:


> So, any news, rumors, speculation on the extended range Fluence single coil pickups?


The EMG singles are so amazing I dont see why the Fishman holdup is such a big deal haha


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## Xaeldaren

lewis said:


> The EMG singles are so amazing I dont see why the Fishman holdup is such a big deal haha


I've never had the chance to try Fishmans or EMGs, so I have no dog in this fight, but your one-man crusade against Fishman is _ very_ entertaining to watch.


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## PK317

Xaeldaren said:


> I've never had the chance to try Fishmans or EMGs, so I have no dog in this fight, but your one-man crusade against Fishman is _ very_ entertaining to watch.


Well, I don't know much about crusades , but I have guitars with Fishman single coils, EMG single coils and passive Alnico 2 and 5 single coils, and to me they all sound decent. Different, but decent. If I compare Fishman to EMG, to my ears EMG set has more clarity/brightness and less preamp noise on high gain. Fishmans are a bit harsh, especially the bridge, but with HF tilt it sounds just fine.


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## lewis

Xaeldaren said:


> I've never had the chance to try Fishmans or EMGs, so I have no dog in this fight, but your one-man crusade against Fishman is _ very_ entertaining to watch.


You know I use Fishmans right ?
I'm just saying whilst waiting why not get the EMG singles ?
Their solderless wiring works perfectly with the fishmans so when they finally do drop, it's a 10 second switch over.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ibanez Unveils Revamped Polyphia Signature Guitars


Tim Henson and Scott LePage have updated Ibanez signature models for the recently-dropped 'Remember That You Will Die.'




www.premierguitar.com





There's your Polyphia Fishmans



> Tim's signature Fishman Fluence pickups span the entire range of aggressive lead and rhythm tones to the cleanest of clean single coil combinations, even touching on sounds Tim was previously only able to produce with his acoustic guitars. NeckPickup Voice 1: Thick and smooth neck humbucker / Voice 2: Hyper-clean, nylon string surrogate/ Voice 3: Tim's fluid neck single coil Bridge Pickup Voice 1: Based on Fishman's hot-rodded Classic voice, the quintessential lead tone of generation / Voice 2: Combination of Tim's favorite bridge humbuckers / Voice 3: Tim's ideal single coil combination tone when used in conjunction with neck coil.





> cott's customFishman® FluenceTM pickups span the entire range of aggressive lead and rhythm tones to vintage single coil combinations. Neck Pickup Voice 1 (Vintage PAF): The ideal, elusive PAF neck tone with the dynamics and output level you want. / Voice 2 (Clear, airy chime): A Fluence-exclusive neck tone, with unreal highs, vocal midrange, and tight lows. / Voice 3 (Clear, Vintage Single Coil) Bridge Pickup Voice 1 (Vintage PAF): The ideal, calibrated vintage PAF bridge humbucker tone at the perfect output level. / Voice 2 (Classic Hot Rod): The quintessential hot rodded bridge humbucker tone without all the baggage. / Voice 3 (Slightly Overwound SingleCoil).



Tim's pickups actually sound like a new set. Scott's uh... sounds like the Classics.  I guess it makes sense because Tim's is badges as a signature set and Scott's is badged as a custom set.


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## PK317

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Ibanez Unveils Revamped Polyphia Signature Guitars
> 
> 
> Tim Henson and Scott LePage have updated Ibanez signature models for the recently-dropped 'Remember That You Will Die.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.premierguitar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tim's pickups actually sound like a new set.


Sounds intriguing, I already want that


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Neck v2 of Tim's set sounds interesting. Like it's meant to emulate a nylon/classical acoustic? Or at least have the same qualities.


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## juka

And again this keeps me wondering what's going wrong at Fishman?
Again they let a guitar company spill the news, again they need a "big artist" just to release a new color variant for an existing set and they probably again will tell us that these are 6string only because that's what the artist plays (although the Polyphia guys jump around a lot with 7strings in their videos).
Still hoping for the neck v2 acoustic sound and that they not just tried to find a better known artist for their Javier Reyes set ;-)


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## CanserDYI

I'm happy to see more Scotty love, frankly. Dude can fucking play and its Tim that gets all the spotlight.


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## washburned

washburned said:


> Yup 2 tone one 1 volume config so that shouldn't be a problem I don't think
> 
> This seems to make sense since even the same types of wood have to vary from cut to cut. I might check those pickups out. Curious what most people think about the comparison of these various fluence flavors to the emg81/85. I think my goal is to essentially convincingly replace those but still get all the different tones the fishman provide. i.e. great single coil passive voices, low to mid range tones, and of course what the standard emg's do best which is high gain
> 
> You mean just lower the bridge pickup? I've tried that a bit, the high cuts too. Guess I just can't get around the tonal character of the guitar for every context


Just in case anyone is reading and wants to know -- it finally hit me that one of the only things left to try when you have a guitar that seems too bright now matter what... Is to try a different type / brand of strings. Ordered a pack of Daddario NY XL and Daddario XT both which are supposed to be warmer than normal. I went straight for the XT's which I believe are just a coated version of the XL's which are supposed to be even warmer. 

It made a dramatic difference, and I'm wondering if the XL's are my goldilocks zone for this guitar. I won't know until I wear out the XT's and try the XL's.


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## TimmyPage

Has anyone tried to put a set into a Charvel DK24 HH? I've been considering a set of Classics for mine, but I've never used any active pickups before and am not really sure if there's room for the batteries/tech or if there are any issues to watch out for with this guitar. 

Also this guitar has a mini switch on it, and I'm on the fence about how to wire it. Maybe the split/voice 3 on the switch and a push/pull for voice 1 and 2.


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## PK317

Look at this diagram, you could wire 3 way mini switch, each position for different voicing. I have it on my guitar and for me this works better than push pull.


https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Fluence_Classic_Open_Core_Voice_Select_w_Mini_Toggles.pdf


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

TimmyPage said:


> Has anyone tried to put a set into a Charvel DK24 HH? I've been considering a set of Classics for mine, but I've never used any active pickups before and am not really sure if there's room for the batteries/tech or if there are any issues to watch out for with this guitar.
> 
> Also this guitar has a mini switch on it, and I'm on the fence about how to wire it. Maybe the split/voice 3 on the switch and a push/pull for voice 1 and 2.


Use both push pull pots. Each pickup gets their own v1/v2 control. Then the mini toggle can be V3 for both. 
Also there should be plenty enough room. Looking at the control cavity, seems pretty honkin, and all you need is space for a battery.


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## juka

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Use both push pull pots. Each pickup gets their own v1/v2 control. Then the mini toggle can be V3 for both.
> Also there should be plenty enough room. Looking at the control cavity, seems pretty honkin, and all you need is space for a battery.


Why not use this:
https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/rechargeable-battery-pack-for-strat/
It's even available in white


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## Senensis

Hey, I have been reading that thread since I'm getting a guitar in which I'm planning on putting my first Fishman set (since it has a battery route anyway). The guitar is a classical mahogany/maple cap with maple neck and I play through a 6505. I really like the amp but sometimes the fizziness gets to me.

I am looking for a very versatile set that is not ice-picky, has some grit, and is/can be rather dynamic. So far I have no experience with active pickups. From what I read and heard, the Devin Townsend set seems like the best pick for me. Anyone to confirm / recommend anything else? Thanks!


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## cmpxchg

Senensis said:


> Hey, I have been reading that thread since I'm getting a guitar in which I'm planning on putting my first Fishman set (since it has a battery route anyway). The guitar is a classical mahogany/maple cap with maple neck and I play through a 6505. I really like the amp but sometimes the fizziness gets to me.
> 
> I am looking for a very versatile set that is not ice-picky, has some grit, and is/can be rather dynamic. So far I have no experience with active pickups. From what I read and heard, the Devin Townsend set seems like the best pick for me. Anyone to confirm / recommend anything else? Thanks!


I'd go Classic or Javier Reyes, but I have no experience with the Devin set.


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## Warmart

Senensis said:


> Hey, I have been reading that thread since I'm getting a guitar in which I'm planning on putting my first Fishman set (since it has a battery route anyway). The guitar is a classical mahogany/maple cap with maple neck and I play through a 6505. I really like the amp but sometimes the fizziness gets to me.
> 
> I am looking for a very versatile set that is not ice-picky, has some grit, and is/can be rather dynamic. So far I have no experience with active pickups. From what I read and heard, the Devin Townsend set seems like the best pick for me. Anyone to confirm / recommend anything else? Thanks!


That's a pretty sizzly amp so I'd agree the Devins are a great place to start. Can always swap out easily, later, if you don't jive with 'em.


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## SCJR

I put Tosins in my 7 to replace the Moderns. Big upgrade but I've got Fluence fatigue. Unfortunately the soapbar routing has me locked in.

Best results I've ever had were with an HSH setup with the Open Core Classics and the Fluence single in the middle. Some of the best tones I've ever gotten in any guitar.


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## SCJR

lewis said:


> They're tighter than a Nun.


I'll be stealing that.


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