# Dissonant chords?



## Daemoniac (Jan 15, 2009)

I figure its time i expanded my arsenal somewhat, with regards to chords, so i need a bit of help finding some dissonant chords.

My 7 is tuned to double drop F#, so i need some slightly wacky finger placemnts i assume.

Any help/pointing in the right direction would be much appreciated.


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## ilikes2shred (Jan 15, 2009)

Generally, I find the most dissonant intervals (I don't know if that's the right term... I just mean they sound dissonant when played together) to be minor 2nds, augmented fourths, and major 7ths. From there you can take existing chords that fit well in the song and add those more dissonant intervals. 

Another approach that may flow better would be to use a scale that already includes a lot of dissonant intervals, and form chords based off the scale. Some scales that I like to use in this approach are the double harmonic minor, the diminished, and the augmented scales, but there are others that work well too.

A third approach would be to take a scale of your liking and form a chord from consecutive or nearly consecutive intervals. For example, I was making some riffs based on the B flat diminished (whole-half) scale. I just took the first three notes of the scale, starting at the root, and used them in a chord, like this:

eflat:-----
bflat:-----
Gflat:-----
Dflat:--0--
Aflat:--4--
Eflat:--7--
Bflat:-----

It's not extremely dissonant, but it adds a very nice touch as opposed to a normal chord.


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## Nick (Jan 15, 2009)

eflat:-----
bflat:-----
Gflat:-----
Dflat:-10--
Aflat:--7--
Eflat:--8--
Bflat:-----

that may be a 'real' chord but i quite like it


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 15, 2009)

What the hell is Double Drop F#?

This:
E
B
G
D
A
F#
F#

This, 

Eb
Bb
Gb
Db
Ab
Gb
Gb

or 

This

e
B
G
C#
F#
C#
F#



This, maybe?

D#
C#
F#
C#
F#
C#
F#
?


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## Drew (Jan 15, 2009)

Nick said:


> eflat:-----
> bflat:-----
> Gflat:-----
> Dflat:-10--
> ...



Are you sure those fingerings are right, dude? That's, given your tuning, an E, G#, and E, better known as "E Major"


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## abyss258 (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't do this too frequently anymore, but something that has yeilded some nice results was having a "Chord of the Day" 
Just place your fingers anywhere on the fretboard and BAMM, a potentially nice chord.

Also, ilikes2shred's post was very informative


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 15, 2009)

There's a few things you can do: augmented and diminished chords, altered chords (like maj7b5), or do what I do and construct non-tertial chords. Check this out:

e-12
b-12
G-10
D-10
A-
E-

Another thing I like to do is make non-diatonic progressions. Here's a short progression from something I wrote to illustrate the idea: Em-Gm-C#-D-EQ-B-Bb-Em(add9)

e-0-3-4-5-8-7-6-0
b-0-3-6-7-8-7-6-0
G-0-3-6-7-7-8-7-0
D-2-5-6-7-7-9-8-4
A-2-5-4-5-7-9-8-2
E-0-3--x-x-x-7-6-0


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## Nick (Jan 15, 2009)

Drew said:


> Are you sure those fingerings are right, dude? That's, given your tuning, an E, G#, and E, better known as "E Major"



well that sounds like a really boring chord!.

make no mistake chords are numbers on a tab sheet to me  but it doesnt sound as boring as E major to me anyway!

maybe it sounds a bit dissonant because in one of our tracks its used along with whats below. Then again maybe they are all just basic chords 2! i have no idea........

eflat:---------------------------
bflat:--------------------------
Gflat:---------------------------
Dflat:--9--9-----12--10----------
Aflat:--8--6------9--7--------
Eflat:--7--7-----10--8---------
Bflat:------------------------------


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## Luan (Jan 15, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> There's a few things you can do: augmented and diminished chords, altered chords (like maj7b5), or do what I do and construct non-tertial chords. Check this out:
> 
> e-12
> b-12
> ...



EQ???? what chord is that one?


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## vgguru39 (Jan 15, 2009)

E 0 0
B 4 4
G 7 0
D 0 4
A 6 0
E 0 4


Those guys are pretty dissonant.


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## PlagueX1 (Jan 15, 2009)

---------------------------
---------------------------
---------------------------
--11-----------------------
--9----------7-----------7-7-
--7----------6-----------6-6-
--------------5-----------5-5-
------0000------0000------

Idk lol


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 15, 2009)

Luan said:


> EQ???? what chord is that one?



It's the quartal voicing built on E, it has four perfect fourths on it, going to C. 

e---8--
B---8--
G---7--
D---7--
A---7--
E-------

'Twas that one.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 15, 2009)

So is you tunning F# C# G# C# F# A# D#?


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## ilikes2shred (Jan 15, 2009)

Extreme dissonance:

eb:--12--
bb:--12--
gb:--15--
db:--14--
ab:--13--
Eb:--12--
Bb:--16--

another cool thing to do is make a chord thats any note and the minor second from it. Then bend the lower note slowly up to the pitch of the higher note. You should get a whole bunch of that weird wavering noise, like when you tune with harmonics.

Example:


eb:----------
bb:--5bend--
gb:--10-----
db:---------
ab:---------
Eb:--------
Bb:--------

I find myself using that position a lot for dissonant chords, or like this:

eb:----
bb:--7--
gb:--10--
db:----
ab:----
Eb:----
Bb:----

which is essentially the same thing. That particular chord is from the Lamb of God song, "eleventh hour". Great song, btw.

If you are interested in more dissonance, I think the most dissonant chord would be a hole bunch of minor seconds stacked up like this:

eb:--1--
bb:--5--
gb:--8--
db:--12--
ab:--16--
Eb:--20--
Bb:--24--

That would be: B flat, B, C, C#,D,D#,E.

I know it's impossible to play, but take a listen to it in guitar pro. You can try playing around some more and see if you can include all twelve tones in a chord that only spans one octave. sounds good.... or... um.... terrible.

Again, that's not practical though.

Edit: I just had an idea, maybe you could tune in augmented fourths? It sure would make tritones easy (because they are just so hard in the first place.... not).


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## DavyH (Jan 16, 2009)

Larry Conklin's excellent instructional video series should help you with dissonances.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 16, 2009)

More than anything, you have to consider getting to and coming from the chord. I find the ear accepts dissonance much easier if you start with a diatonic chord and make it dissonant with alterations. Here's a jazzy Em9(Maj7) approached by Em and resolving to Em:

Em-Em9(Maj7)-Dsus4-D-C-B-Em

e0-2-3-2-0-2-0
b0-0-3-3-1-4-0
G0-0-2-2-0-4-0
D2-1-0-0-2-4-2
A2-2-x-x-3-2-2
E0-0-x-x-x-x-0

Sounds pretty diatonic, if not a bit modal. Resolved dissonances are nice, but you may not be after that. Food for thought.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 16, 2009)

Just move these around to wherever they strike your fancy.


E|-
B|-
G|-
D|----5--5--2-----3
A|-1--4--3--1--3--5--4
E|-1--3--1--1--0--2--3
B|-0--1--0--0--0--2--3


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## hide (Jan 16, 2009)

DavyH said:


> Larry Conklin's excellent instructional video series should help you with dissonances.


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## ilikes2shred (Jan 16, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by DavyH
> Larry Conklin's excellent instructional video series should help you with dissonances.



Oh, I didn't get it at first!


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 16, 2009)

DavyH said:


> Larry Conklin's excellent instructional video series should help you with dissonances.



He didn't ask about microtonality, though.


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## Daemoniac (Jan 16, 2009)

Holy shit, i actually forgot i had this thread... 

Cheers for the suggestions, and in response to ToanArchitect: I retuned it back up, so its now just in Drop G# tuning again.


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 16, 2009)

Here's an offensive-to-the-gods nasty chord:

D#---0
C#---7
F#---0
C#---0
G#---4
D#---6
G#---0

Here's some for either ringing out or palm-muted-but-not-staccato riffing (ala "Electric Red" verses):

D#----------------
C#----------------
F#----------------
C#-----------5---
G#--2----1--5---
D#--3----2--6---
G#--0----2--0---

The obvious way to go is for tritones, but I'm by far more partial to seconds.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 16, 2009)

Seconds are preferable, but tritones are easy on guitar. Unfortunately, that fact makes guitar pieces written with twentieth century harmonies a bit predictable. That's why I work with tertial and quartal harmony, but use progressions that avoid key. The benefit has been that I have to work with harmonies that make a bit of sense (can't do stacked major sevenths), and have learned to appreciate the motion of a chord. I'm all harmony, though. My melodies suck.


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## henrebotha (Jan 19, 2009)

ilikes2shred said:


> another cool thing to do is make a chord thats any note and the minor second from it. Then bend the lower note slowly up to the pitch of the higher note.


This is called a "unison bend".


ilikes2shred said:


> You should get a whole bunch of that weird wavering noise, like when you tune with harmonics.


This is called "beating".


ilikes2shred said:


> eb:----------
> bb:--5bend--
> gb:--10-----
> db:---------
> ...


The second way (ie lower note on the third string) is much easier and more practical to do.

Generally, unison bends are used more as a lead effect than as a chord... And I actually do think they could be used to great effect in rhythm parts. I should go try this when I get off work.

My favourite dissonant chord at the moment is simply Xflat5. In E:

e-6-
B-8-
G-9-
D---
A---
E---

Add a major 7 or minor 9 for added flavour.


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 19, 2009)

Let's have some love for Augmented chords. 

Here's a compact little voicing:

Eb---12
Bb---13
Gb---13
Db------
Ab-------
Eb-------
Ab-------


Eb-------
Bb-------
Gb-------
Db---4-----
Ab---5---
Eb---6--
Ab---5----

For low-register, drop-tuned stuff. 

And a bar-voicing, if you dig that


Eb---4----
Bb---5----
Gb---5----
Db---6----
Ab---x----
Eb---4----
Ab--------

This isn't the "Hardest Chords" Thread, so I'm not going to show you what you'd need to have a note on the Ab string(s).


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 19, 2009)

Fifth manipulation is good stuff, like m#5 (ex: E-G-B#), or Mb5 (ex: E-G#-Bb). Major-minor chords are difficult to find good voicings for on guitar, but here's an example:

e-9
b-5
G-5
D-7
A-7
E-5

With the major triad on the bottom (and added b7):

e-8
b-5
G-6
D-5
A-7
E-5


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## henrebotha (Jan 20, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> With the major triad on the bottom (and added b7):
> 
> e-8
> b-6
> ...


Shouldn't that be

e-8
B-6
G-*6*
D-5
A-7
E-5

?

Anyway, yeah, love the clash of a major and minor third in the same chord. a la

e-(0)-
B--8--
G--8--
D--6--
A--7--
E-(0)-

which is also great because it's got the major 7 clashing with the minor 3.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 20, 2009)

henrebotha said:


> Shouldn't that be
> 
> e-8
> B-6
> ...


Oops. Thanks for catching that. Correcting now...

Kudos on your major-minor-maj7, that's another good one. This illustrates a method for making dissonant chords: mixing tonalities. The next logical step would be adding a b5, then a m6/#5, then maybe 9 and b9, and so on.


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## henrebotha (Jan 20, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> Kudos on your major-minor-maj7, that's another good one. This illustrates a method for making dissonant chords: mixing tonalities. The next logical step would be adding a b5, then a m6/#5, then maybe 9 and b9, and so on.


I arrived at it a different way, though - I approached it as a modified 7#9. Whereas the Hendrix chord has a funky/bluesy sound to it due to the flat 7, this version gives it a sharper sound and emphasises the major side of the major-minor equation. So there's another way to do this kind of thing: take sounds you already know and alter them.


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## ilikes2shred (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks, I never new there was a name for... um.. beating. 

Anyway, I good example of unison bends in a rhythm section (I DID know that one....  ) would be My Acid Words by Nevermore. Its the very first riff.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 21, 2009)

> I arrived at it a different way, though - I approached it as a modified 7#9. Whereas the Hendrix chord has a funky/bluesy sound to it due to the flat 7, this version gives it a sharper sound and emphasises the major side of the major-minor equation.



Maj7 chords have always struck me as having an immobile, sickly-soft quality that doesn't fit anywhere, never emphasizing a major key. This doesn't really contribute, but I find it a difficult chord quality.


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## henrebotha (Jan 21, 2009)

This thread has actually managed to kick-start my inspiration muscle... NEED MOAR

The difficult thing for me is that I tend to approach diatonic chord progressions from a four-part harmony perspective because that's where my theory knowledge is rooted; but I have _no_ idea how to harmonically approach (or resolve!) a chord like my aforementioned major-minor-M7.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 21, 2009)

It's usually a color chord, but let's see what we can do. Both a major tonic chord and its parallel minor share a major V, so you could resolve to the V. I also experimented with moving up a tritone, then down a fifth, as a sort of Neapolitan cadence. Both are eh, but I'd rely on V, viiº, and ii. If I knew Bartók's work better, I could probably get a better idea of what to do with that chord. Polymodality is hard shit.


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## henrebotha (Jan 21, 2009)

Bartok big on that stuff? I've never really given him a listen.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 21, 2009)

Oh, yeah. I couldn't recommend any pieces in particular to illustrate his use of major-minor, but there's probably a few examples in his Concerto for Orchestra.

Also, Michael Stearns (soundtrack composer for the Ron Fricke films _Baraka_ and _Chronos_) likes to resolve weird chords. You might want to check him out.


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