# Major n00b question about Floyd Rose trem...



## Nik (Oct 23, 2005)

Ok, I know this is a stupid, n00b question, but I've NEVER in my life worked with a Floyd Rose trem, so I need some help.

I have an RG1527 on the way. I hear that the trem doesn't have locking studs. I plan on ordering these, but after waiting for a bit.

My question is (keeping in mind I don't know anything about Floyd Rose guitars...) What are the locking studs? What do they look like, how are they installed, and what do they do?

Is there any danger of me screwing up my guitar by using the trem before I get these or what? Someone mentioned about ripping something from the wood...

Thanks for your help,

--Nik


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## Metal Ken (Oct 23, 2005)

They're the 2 posts the bridge sits on. Basically, to install them, you pull out the bridge,unscrew the old studs, then you put in a set screw that acts as a base for the locking screw in the stud, put studs back in, readjust the action,, lock them in place and done. The trem will work fine, but they help it maintain tuning a bit better.


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## Nik (Oct 23, 2005)

HateBreeder said:


> They're the 2 posts the bridge sits on. Basically, to install them, you pull out the bridge,unscrew the old studs, then you put in a set screw that acts as a base for the locking screw in the stud, put studs back in, readjust the action,, lock them in place and done. The trem will work fine, but they help it maintain tuning a bit better.



So there's no danger of ripping the trem from the wood or something like that?

Because, as you might imagine, that might be a rather unpleasant thing to happen to a brand new Ibanez Prestiege 

If it's just for tuning, then awesome.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 23, 2005)

Nah. They wouldnt release a guitar if there was a chance something like that might happen lol... 
But yeah, it just makes the tuning more stable.


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## Nik (Oct 23, 2005)

Ok, thanks a lot dude!

I have never worked with a Floyd Rose trem before, and I have a feeling I'm gonna have loads of questions based on what I've heard about them lol


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## Metal Ken (Oct 23, 2005)

Dude, I am the Edge/LoPro master ;p (Except next to kevan,lol). feel free to ask anything.


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## Regor (Oct 23, 2005)

Locking? That's the first I've heard of these. What exactly are you talking about? Got a pic?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 23, 2005)

The actual stud the trem sits on has a set screw in the middle of it that pushes up against the bottom of the hole for the post, this locking the stud in place.


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## Regor (Oct 23, 2005)

I don't understand the point of that.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 23, 2005)

Its the same as a tonepros bridge, for floating bridges basically. You know how when you take of the bridge, the posts are wobbly? It corrects that. Cause when they're wobbly like that, when you're whammying, it can slightly adjust the angle and whatnot of the bridge, and cause instability.


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## Nik (Oct 23, 2005)

You know what would be a really great idea?

If someone made a 2-way semi-fixed trem. Lemme explain...

It's hard to explain without using pictures, but it's a pretty simple concept. In order for it to work, however, the trem arm can only be used at a specific angle. But basically, it would be a mechanism attached to the trem arm inside the trem which would latch on to the fixed body of the guitar. This way, the trem arm locks the trem and it is like fixed; you can rip strings, whatever, the trem won't move and it'll behave as if it's fixed. You'd have more sustain two.

If you wanted to use the trem, as you push down on the trem arm, which releases the latch and actually unlocks the trem. If you let the bridge rise back up into place, the trem locks into place and remains fixed until the next time you push down on the tremolo bar.

Am I a genius, or what?


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## Kevan (Oct 23, 2005)

HB- thanks for the props, man! 
Some industry guys have started calling me "Trem Boy". I *think* that's a compliment. LOL

Nik-
Here's a pic of the original locking studs (I took the pic and gave it to Glensite so...):
http://www.jemsite.com/tech/img/trem_post.jpg
There you can see the small set screw that comes out of the bottom of the trem post. This set screw is one of the main advantages of the Ibanez FR trems over the originals. Once that set screw is locked, those posts don't move, which really helps to keep your floating trem in tune. 

Unfortunately, Ibanez stopped doing the locking trem posts somewhere in the 2003 area, and simply went with old-school, non-locking posts. I'm sure with the $0.0004 they save over the next couple of years, it'll pay for that new coffee maker. Anyway, it's a bad idea, several major guys have said so, and we all hope they get back to putting them in as stock. *crosses fingers*

In the meantime, there are a couple of things you can do. IbanezRules offers a locking post replacement kit. The site owner, Rich, is a cool guy and can get you hooked up with that. It's a shame that you have to spend some dollars to get the new guitar where we all think it should be, but....that's the cost of owning something so versatile. 
http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/stud_mod_03.htm 
$40 for the kit. Not terrible.
Just be sure to use a REAL lubricant on your posts and knife edges when putting it all back together. 
Unless you're a fluffer, Chapstick isn't a real lube.

In regards to your idea about "move the arm and the trem locks down", you can shake the hand of Mr. Wilkinson. He came up with this idea more than a decade ago, and the trem system (the VS-100-Convertible) is for sale everywhere except the US. Why? Because Steinberger came up with the same type of idea at about the same time, and Gibson bought Steinberger, and Gibson called it patent infringement, and Gibson won. Mr. Wilkinson gave them the finger and continued (continues?) to sell the Convertible everywhere outside the US.
NOTE: The locking system in question is NOT found on the TransTrem. The one I'm talking about is a whole other system designed by Steinberger, and was only in production for about 6 mos. They turned out to be dogs, and went away. Thankfully.  

Ken Parker (Parker Guitars) has a system that also works sorta like you described. It's a pretty slick little setup, but....it only comes on the uber-Parkers. Sorry.

Your other option is, ahem...well....I'll let one of the other guys talk about it. Don't worry though- we can get your 1527 hooked up.


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## Nik (Oct 23, 2005)

Kevan said:


> HB- thanks for the props, man!
> Some industry guys have started calling me "Trem Boy". I *think* that's a compliment. LOL
> 
> Nik-
> ...



Wow, that was a really really helpful post. You deserve your title dude.. Thanks!!!!

Pity that idea isn't mass produced.

As for getting the studs... Well, I just spent a bunch of cash on getting the guitar and getting new pick-ups so I think I'm not gonna buy anything musical for a while. I'll probably order the studs through Guitar Center so they can install them for me (I know, I know, but you should hear some of my guitar stories, then you'd understand why I'm not much of a hands on guy  )...

Unless... Well, I'm very curious as to what that last sentence in your post means... ? What's my other option?

BTW, how many of these locking studs would I need 2? 4?

$40 bucks is a lot for a bunch of metallic bolts  

Well, thanks again!

--Nik


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## Kevan (Oct 24, 2005)

Let's go thru these one at a time, shall we?


Nik said:


> Wow, that was a really really helpful post. You deserve your title dude.. Thanks!!!!


You're very welcome.



Nik said:


> Pity that idea isn't mass produced.


As far as I know, the VS-100-C is still being produced. You just can't buy it here in the US. A week after that lawsuit was over, you couldn't even find Convertible parts here in the States. Most folks have resorted to getting the trems and parts from overseas.



Nik said:


> As for getting the studs... Well, I just spent a bunch of cash on getting the guitar and getting new pick-ups so I think I'm not gonna buy anything musical for a while. I'll probably order the studs through Guitar Center so they can install them for me (I know, I know, but you should hear some of my guitar stories, then you'd understand why I'm not much of a hands on guy  )...


Ugh. GC + trems = Paris Hilton + video camera. It's just a bad idea to let them loose on a trem-equipped guitar. Plus, GC won't have the complete 'replacement kit'. Rich puts it all together himself, in a nice plastic baggie. And, with GC you will wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. And....*hits side of monitor*

Spending an hour learning the basics of your trem will save you thousands of dollars and tons of time in the future.
I'd type everything out for you, but most of the basics can be found here:
http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm
Read everything except #16. Filing knife edges is extremely bad advice (once you file it away, you can never get that metal back). I've found that 98% of tremolo issues can be solved by simple lubrication of the trem post notches and both sides of the knife edges. I use a PTFE (Teflon-based) lube, and wipe away any excess. The PTFE imbeds into the metal and provides a really smooth surface for the two parts to interact on. It's metal-on-metal contact, so lubrication is a must. 
You don't drive your car down the street with out any oil in the engine, right? Why drive your trem without any lube on it?

HINT: You can get great lubes (PTFE, Graphite, etc.) at most auto parts stores. The little tube will last you years.

There are some other points where Rich and I have different ways of doing things, but the link above will get you started. If you have questions, let me know and I'll try to answer them.

Oh, and if you want to spend another 20 minutes learning to solder, you'll be able to replace pickups too.  You can get a beginner soldering kit from Radio Shack for less than $25 and it'll last years. Another minor, but worthwhile, investment.



Nik said:


> Unless... Well, I'm very curious as to what that last sentence in your post means... ? What's my other option?


As I said, I'm gonna let one of the other guys here tell you about it.



Nik said:


> BTW, how many of these locking studs would I need 2? 4?


You would need one set. One set will do one guitar.



Nik said:


> $40 bucks is a lot for a bunch of metallic bolts


In the package, you get new trem studs as well. They normally go for about $12-15 ea.(2 per guitar), so it's not that terrible of a deal.



Nik said:


> Well, thanks again!


You're very welcome again.


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## darren (Oct 24, 2005)

Here's a little secret: TonePros bridges still wobble around like mad. TonePros only locks the bridge to the studs. The studs themselves still slop around inside the threaded inserts. This is easily remedied by using a couple of jam nuts on the studs to lock them down to the inserts once you've got your action set. (I'll post photos of my new setup later.)


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## Regor (Oct 24, 2005)

HateBreeder said:


> Its the same as a tonepros bridge, for floating bridges basically. You know how when you take of the bridge, the posts are wobbly? It corrects that. Cause when they're wobbly like that, when you're whammying, it can slightly adjust the angle and whatnot of the bridge, and cause instability.



You know, I've never noticed a problem with that. I would think the tension from the strings pulling the bridge towards the posts wouldn't allow them to wobble.

Then again, I don't whammy much/hard. So it's never been a concern for me I guess.


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## dpm (Oct 24, 2005)

Kevan, I haven't seen a VS-100 Convertible for a few years, I don't think they're in production anymore. Some _may_ be available as old stock.
Trevor Wilkinson's latest gear is mostly Korean cheapo stuff, with the exception of the Gotoh/Wilkinson units which are improved versions of the VS-100, including locking studs.

Kevan and HB's advice here is solid, particularly regarding filing knife edges. They are hardened steel and once that hard layer wears through the softer metal is exposed. Ibanez knife edges are replaceable (they can be a bitch to remove though).
If you aren't comfortable working on your guitar don't, unless it's something reversible. Take it to a _good_ tech. Not GC. Ask around, find out who is recommended in your area. I say this as someone who sees a lot of crap work that can't be undone. Setups are reversible, and the stud conversion is very straight forward.

Oh, and regarding Kevan's last sentence http://www.tremol-no.com/
He's the inventor behind this marvelous gadget, soon to be available through AllParts. Check out Drew's reviews of this thing. Having chatted to Kevan a bit about it I can tell you it will be good. The most important aspect of a device like the Tremol-No (apart from the design) is having it made accurately of the right materials. Kevan has got this thing nailed contractually to be right.


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## Drew (Oct 24, 2005)

Dan - update for you - rather than waiting until I can drive down to GC to buy some bulk springs, I'm going to pull the T-No from the CST and put it into my Universe, and then give you a "hands on with metal-as-fuck strings" update. 

by the way, I'm completely in love with 11's now that I'm used to them.  

My personal recommendation for a good lube is Pedro's Extra Dry mountain biking chain lube. I forgot exacly what the stuff's called (Kevan, you'd know) but it's got the chemical lubricant stuff that actually bonds with the metal in it, and is specially formulated not to attract dust and dirt. If it can keep my chain from gumming up in New England mud season, it can keep your trem smooth and free from dust. 

That said, Kevan, aren't you working on an official tremol-no lube? 

Also, unrelated tangent - is the Gotoh/Wilkinson trem a direct retrofit for a Fender American Standard trem? I've been meaning to swap mine out for something a little more confidence inspiring for rather a while. 

-D


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## Kevan (Oct 24, 2005)

Nik- DPM's advice about taking it to a REAL tech is a great idea if you don't want to get into it yourself. If you let us know what part of the country/world you're in, maybe one of us can steer you towards a reputable, trem-friendly, guitar tech.


DPM- thanks man. I'm glad you approve of the materials used to make the Tremol-No. LOL

I wasn't sure if they were still offering it or not. I've seen a few NOS ones for sale. The Convertible is/was a cool idea, and I personally think that Trevor's a genius.


Drew- I'm not working on any sort of Tremol-No lube. The device really doesn't need any lubrication as there's no constant force pressure between any of the parts (until you use the screws to lock it down). Plus, I only got a C in chemistry. 

The chemical you're talking about in your bike chain lube is probably PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene). It's good stuff. Highly recommended. Anything with PTFE in it, or PTFE-based, will make a good lube. I like the gel stuff, simply because it doesn't run all over the place when I apply it. 

"standard" from Fender....that's some funny shit right there. 
Saying "Standard American Strat Trem" is like going to the Playboy mansion and saying, "Oh- she's hot." Umm....which one? I've seen about 4 different "standard" trems from Fender, all on American Strats. A quick search on the Convertible should get you the dimensions necessary to see if a swap is drop-in or not. I'll have a look at my notes here as well.


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## Drew (Oct 24, 2005)

My bad, I was under the impression that "American Standard" was the model name.  It's their run-of-the mill two-point knife edge non-locking trem... 

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0992050000

Eh, American Series Stratocaster Tremolo Assembly, #0992050000, the top left one in the pic. An eyeball check suggests it should be a direct retrofit, but I'm not crazy enough to go on just that... I'd drop Wilkinson or Gotoh an e-mail about it, but a week or so ago someone posted looking for contact info for them, and I couldn't find aything on the net.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 24, 2005)

darren said:


> Here's a little secret: TonePros bridges still wobble around like mad. TonePros only locks the bridge to the studs. The studs themselves still slop around inside the threaded inserts. This is easily remedied by using a couple of jam nuts on the studs to lock them down to the inserts once you've got your action set. (I'll post photos of my new setup later.)


They're still way more solid than a regular TOM. F.Ex, the saddles ride a screw thats bolted on the ends and doesnt move around, and has a phillips head screw to adjust it instead of standard (not that it helps it stay in tune, but its much easier to adjust). That in itself, plus the fact its bolted to the studs improves it tremendously. If i can bolt the studs in place, then that just adds something else.


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## dpm (Oct 24, 2005)

Drew, I'm 100% sure the Gotoh/Wilk is a retrofit for the Am Std..
If you're still running a Wilkinson roller nut (not sure how old your Am. Std. is) change to the LSR. The LSR is more reliable and less limited to string gauge, and is a direct retrofit. Well worth the change 

edit: Am. Std's have standard nuts. I'm a retard. Get a GraphTech Trem Nut and string trees.


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## Nik (Oct 24, 2005)

Kevan said:


> Nik- DPM's advice about taking it to a REAL tech is a great idea if you don't want to get into it yourself. If you let us know what part of the country/world you're in, maybe one of us can steer you towards a reputable, trem-friendly, guitar tech.



Thanks, but it doesn't matter right now. I'm gonna hold off on this bit of modding for a little while. In the meantime, my guitar will stop being new (wow what a crappy way to put that) and I won't feel as sorry I suppose taking it appart. I'll probably practice doing set-ups on my old guitar in the meantime so I don't screw up on the new one. 

In any case, I live in the Southwest US, if that's of any help.

One last question:

When you say that those studs keep the guitar's tuning more stable, do you mean that the guitar simply goes out of tune faster OR the guitar goes out of tune after you use the trem ie dive-bomb, etc. ?

EDIT: that tremol-no thing looks really cool. The main thing I like about it is how you can instantly change tuning.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 24, 2005)

Tune relative to divebombing & Other trem work.


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## Vince (Oct 24, 2005)

Nik said:


> In any case, I live in the Southwest US, if that's of any help.



Arizona? Nevada? New Mexico?


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## Nik (Oct 24, 2005)

desertdweller said:


> Arizona? Nevada? New Mexico?



New Mexico.


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## Kevan (Oct 24, 2005)

Nik- I don't know any techs in the NM area, but I'm sure someone on here can get you hooked up. 
Hell, I'd mail my guitar somewhere before I let a GC guy touch it. LOL

Tuning stability relies on many factors- quality of strings, quality/length ofsprings, trem component quality, knife edge material/quality/ post material/quality, type of lubrication, etc. There are a lot of variables in there as well. For the most part, you don't want anything to move (like the trem posts). The less movement between the parts, the less likely the trem will 'shift' or not function properly (not bring you back in to tune).

There are some guys out there that swear that a fully floating trem can never be brought back to a perfect zero after a dive (or raise). To them, I offer any of my guitars for their inspection.

Just to clarify: The Tremol-No won't "instantly change your tuning", but it can instantly give you a hardtail/fixed bridge....so you can change the tuning yourself.


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## Drew (Oct 25, 2005)

Dan, I've actually got the graphite nut installed, and I still can't hold tune, lol. I'll try the graphite trees,though, as the G's the worst offender, so that could be part of the reason...

-D


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## Nik (Oct 25, 2005)

Kevan said:


> There are some guys out there that swear that a fully floating trem can never be brought back to a perfect zero after a dive (or raise). To them, I offer any of my guitars for their inspection.
> 
> Just to clarify: The Tremol-No won't "instantly change your tuning", but it can instantly give you a hardtail/fixed bridge....so you can change the tuning yourself.



Ah OK, misunderstood a bit. I'm surprised no one has made a modeling amp that can shift the pitch if your guitar in real time so basically you can dial in different tunings just by turning a knob...

As for the trem I'm getting, how many dive bombs, etc. can I count on before I lose tune? Or is one enough?


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## Kevan (Oct 26, 2005)

Nik said:


> Ah OK, misunderstood a bit. I'm surprised no one has made a modeling amp that can shift the pitch if your guitar in real time so basically you can dial in different tunings just by turning a knob...


They do, kinda. It's called the Digitech Whammy Pedal XP-100.




Nik said:


> As for the trem I'm getting, how many dive bombs, etc. can I count on before I lose tune? Or is one enough?


It depends on how hard you are on your trem, how often you play the guitar and for how long. And.....string gauge, picking attack, and about a dozen other factors.

The one concern that should be addressed is what is called "ovaling" of the trem post holes. What happens is that your unlockable trem posts slop around in there and 'bang' the inserts that are in the wood of the body. The more times they get banged, the more they begin to oval the hole. This can happen in a week, or it can happen over the course of 5 years. Nonetheless, it needs to be addressed and corrected. Locking trem posts (or the retrofit kit from IbanezRules.com) is the best/cheapest way to correct this.

I wouldn't worry too much about it at first, but it's something that needs to be taken care of ASAP.

The first thing you should do when you get the guitar is clean & lube the post notches and knife edges. 
Yes- even before you tune it.


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## dpm (Oct 26, 2005)

Ovalling has a lot to do with how soft the body wood is. Basswood, poplar etc. are very prone to it. It doesn't happen too easily in maple. Another reason Ibanez Edge family holes don't oval is the diameter of the sleeves - a lot bigger than other brands. This gives more surface area for the stresses to spread to as well as being a flatter surface. Sometimes the wood in front of the posts fails altogethr and collapses into the pickup cavity.
To repair ovalled holes I remove the posts and use a thin epoxy (boat building stuff) which penetrates the surrounding area and sets very hard. I like to use Ibanez or Gotoh (Gotoh makes the Ibanez Edge family trems) locking studs as upgrades. The difference is in the depth of the V notch for the knife edges. The Gotoh notch is wider which suits one piece base/knife edge trems. Trems with thinner removable knife edges can use either type.


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## Nik (Oct 26, 2005)

Kevan said:
 

> They do, kinda. It's called the Digitech Whammy Pedal XP-100.
> 
> 
> It depends on how hard you are on your trem, how often you play the guitar and for how long. And.....string gauge, picking attack, and about a dozen other factors.
> ...



Err... 

This kind of sucks. 

We're talkin a RG1527 so yeah, it's basswood.

I'm not a real trem-intensive guitarist, I used the trem sparesly and rarely, (virtually never by Vai standards, lol)... So I hope this won't be too much or a problem. Does ovaling just happen when you use the trem? Cause I suppose I can practice abstinence against the trem for a while because I really can't spend any more money at this moment  

I was hoping to not have to mess with the guitar and just play it... It comes with a set-up. Still, this pisses me off.


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## Kevan (Oct 26, 2005)

Oooooo....a setup on a full floating guitar from GC? You're in for quite the surprise.


If you're not doing any heavy-duty whammy work, I wouldn't stress too hard about the ovaling of the insert holes. You have to be pretty damn hard on a trem to get them to oval enough to warrant a repair or replacement. I would say play it as is and worry about it later. Take care of it when you've got some spare cash in the bank.

For guys like Vai and other trem addicts, ovaling of the holes can even happen with the locking posts. It's really based on physical use/abuse of the trem system in general. Non-locking post inserts will oval first, but locking ones aren't far behind if you're using your left foot to dive your bar for that cool part of the guitar solo each night.


But, first things first: LUBE YOUR TREM!

Then you can play the bejeezus out of the guitar.


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## Nik (Oct 26, 2005)

Kevan said:


> Oooooo....a setup on a full floating guitar from GC? You're in for quite the surprise.
> 
> 
> But, first things first: LUBE YOUR TREM!
> ...



Actually I ordered the guitar from Eric's guitars and he's also doing the set-up (and swapping the pick-ups  )... 

I just said that I might order the trem part later from GC so they can install it (though I didn't know they had shoddy technicians, lol...)

Does the trem need lubing even after a set-up? And if so, how would I go about doing that (keep in mind I'm retarded when it comes to technical guitar mainenance. I play my guitars, not take 'em apart  )


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## Kevan (Oct 27, 2005)

I personally think all guitarists should know about basic maintenance of their guitars and gear. But that's just me. 
I think it helps make them better players when they know what does what, and why (or why not).

I'm not sure of Eric's setups, but I am sure it'll be tons better and way more playable than anything I've ever seen come out of a GC. Before anyone gets saucy, I'm sure there are decent GC techs out there, that actually like floating trems, but I haven't run into any.

I don't know if Eric's setups involve lubrication of the trem posts and knife edges. If they don't, it's REALLY easy to do. Takes less than 5 minutes, DOES NOT require re-stringing, WILL NOT change your setup, and there's no need for any special tools, except for maybe a Q-tip. LOL

What's the vote? Should I do a "How To Lube Your Trem" video?
(so many videos; so little tape)

If you do order the trem post upgrade, go through IbanezRules.com. GC will take for-frickin'-ever, and they don't have the complete kit (you'll only get half of what you need). Rich will get you all the parts necessary, in one package, within a week or so. 
Bang.
Done.


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## Nik (Oct 27, 2005)

Kevan said:


> I personally think all guitarists should know about basic maintenance of their guitars and gear. But that's just me.
> I think it helps make them better players when they know what does what, and why (or why not).
> 
> I'm not sure of Eric's setups, but I am sure it'll be tons better and way more playable than anything I've ever seen come out of a GC. Before anyone gets saucy, I'm sure there are decent GC techs out there, that actually like floating trems, but I haven't run into any.
> ...



Thanks dude.

And I vote yes


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## sixpounder (Nov 5, 2005)

Nik said:


> You know what would be a really great idea?
> 
> If someone made a 2-way semi-fixed trem. Lemme explain...
> 
> ...


i say yes


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## Nik (Nov 8, 2005)

Hey, sorry to bump up this old thread (not that it has really moved  )

Can you guys tell me if a 2005 (pretty sure that's the year) Ibanez RGT 42DX with an Edge Pro II has these locking studs or not?

Thanks.


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## Kevan (Nov 8, 2005)

I haven't had a chance to check one out in person, but I'll risk it and say: 
No locking studs in a 2005 RGT 42DX.


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## Metal Ken (Nov 8, 2005)

to my knowledge, only guitars with Edges or LoPros have locking studs. EP's, EPII's, TRS,etc. Do not.


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## Nik (Nov 8, 2005)

Thanks!

Oh, and Kevan, I love your avatar  I really miss that show.


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## Nik (Nov 13, 2005)

Alright, sorry to bring this back up again but I'm going crazy over this locking studs thing.

Here's something I read at jemsite:

"Tremolo post studs worn at the pivot point - If the pivot point is worn the tremolo will not float. Note - if your tremolo is erratic this is a sure fire sign that you need new posts. Does it lose it's "neutral position" often with subtle trem movements? For example when depress bar slightly it stays slightly flat, then when you flutter the bar it goes in-tune again. Basically it works fine one minute, then out of tune the next, then back in tune when you use the bar. If this occurs you need new trem studs. New studs will make the unit play like new. Highly recommended for ALL used JEM/UVs. You won't believe the difference. Catch... $25/pair from Ibanez. 
Fix - Replace the two tremolo studs. These should be changed every year if used daily. It will dramatically improve your tremolo stability. Temp Fix - rotate the stud 1/3 to get a fresh knife edge while the replacements are on order!
-> "

Does that mean that I can get locking studs for my RG1527 directly from Ibanez?


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## Kevan (Nov 13, 2005)

1. Take all information gathered from Jemsite with a 25 lb. salt lick.

2. "_...if this occurs, you need new studs/posts_". HIGHLY incorrect. You need to inspect the posts, then clean and lube them before putting the trem back in. It's REALLY hard to damage those heat-treated steel trem posts....unless you run your trem without any lubrication.

3. Replace the studs once a year? Yeah. I replace the engine in my car once a year too. Silly idea.

4. As stated before in previous posts in this thread: The STUDS (aka "posts") and INSERTS (aka "bushings")are available from Ibanez, but, you will wait ages for your local dealer to finally place an order for them, will pay full price, and you'll have to have a qualified tech do the insert replacement.

The 'quick fix' from IbanezRules (aka Rich Harris) is what you need.

It's painfully obvious from that Jemsite post that the person has never lubricated his posts or knife edges.


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## Nik (Nov 14, 2005)

yeah, but if full price = $25, as the guy said, then that's a much better deal. Is that true, or am I being a dumbass (it's OK, I tend to do that occasionally  ) I'm a poor, poor bloke...

I'll save $15, with which I can do loads of stuff, like buy metal knobs for my Fender, or maybe an extra spring cause it really needs one...

Anyway, thanks for your help Kevan!


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## Metal Ken (Nov 14, 2005)

You get the studs from ibanez. You dont get the other stuff you need though. 
IE, if you buy the set screws, you'll have to buy a grinder to make them the right size (Shave a few MM off the top so they fit in all the way)... Plus you get all the allen wrenches with it from Ibanez Rules.


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## Kevan (Nov 14, 2005)

Ok, let's just start from the top.

You're worried about all the BS you've read on Glensite and elsewhere online about how people who don't lube their trem posts are having return-to-zero tuning issues, correct? (i.e. "I was driving my car from Orlando to Atlanta without any oil in it, and my engine seized just before Daytona Beach. This car is a piece of sh!t!") People are equating these tuning problems to the factory changing the trem post parts, which is technically only 1/2 the problem (but a good excuse for those on Glensite to cry like a little girl with a skinned knee). Yes- Ibanez changed the parts that they are using for their tremolo systems; some penny-pincher screwed with the system that was working great, so now we have to find ways around his brilliance. Instead of whining about it, there are several ways to deal with the situation. 

To clarify, here are the parts we are talking about, with correct names and actual Ibanez part numbers:
GOOD:
*2-LE2-A Insert (for locking posts)*
http://www.ibanez.com/parts/2002_PARTS/el_guitar/breakdown/images/2LE2-A.JPG
*2-LE2-B Tremolo Post- Locking (aka- Tremolo Height Adjustment Screw- Locking)*
http://www.ibanez.com/parts/2002_PARTS/el_guitar/breakdown/images/2LE2-B.JPG
Note the tiny set screw visible at the far end of the main threads.

BAD:
*2-EL2-B Insert (for non-locking posts)*
https://cs.hoshinogakki.co.jp/i-public/faces/images/2EL2-A_08_01.jpg
*2-EL2-B Tremolo Post (aka- Tremolo Height Adjustment Screw)*
https://cs.hoshinogakki.co.jp/i-public/faces/images/2EL2-B_08_01.jpg

Now, you have three options:
1. Keep the system as it came from the factory. With proper care, this *will* work fine and provide years of great, in-tune use.
2. Replace the factory parts with the old-school factory parts so your mind can rest easy.
3. Replace the factory parts with the IbanezRules modification kit.

Cost of option #1 is: $0.00. It's included in the price of the guitar. 
Cost of option #2 is: Probably more than $100 (includes: new posts, new inserts, tech labor, etc.)
Cost of option #3 is: $40.00 plus shipping. 

Let's go through the process of each option....

*Option #1-* LUBRICATE YOUR TREM POSTS AND KNIFE EDGES the day you get it (VERY, VERY, VERY simple to do). 
Tune the guitar. 
Lock the nut. 
Play the guitar. 
Done.

*Option #2-* You need to order the parts from Ibanez. Most Ibanez dealers don't care about parts for 'whammy guitars', so your order will probably sit on the counter in the back until they have a mega-order to place with Ibanez. Personally, I like to hover at the front counter as they make the parts call right then and there....but, I'm just an asshole like that. 
Next, when the parts come in, you will have to take the guitar and the parts to your local tech. He will remove the old posts and inserts, and replace them with your new parts. Hopefully he's listened to you when you asked him to LUBRICATE THE TREM POSTS AND KNIFE EDGES, and returns your guitar to you in a few days/weeks/months. If he hasn't, kindly remind him. LOL $5 says he either forgot or doesn't know about the set screw inside the trem post, so remind him of that too.
Now, you can go home and tune.
Lock the nut.
Play the guitar.
Done.

*Option #3-* Order the kit from Rich at IbanezRules.com. Wait a few days. Package arrives. 
Remove your trem. (VERY, VERY, VERY easy to do)
Clean an LUBRICATE YOUR TREM POSTS AND KNIFE EDGES.
Install the set screws into the inserts.
Install the new posts into the inserts.
Adjust bridge height as desired.
LOCK THE TREM POSTS (use the 1.5mm wrench, and lock down the set screw that's *inside* the trem post)
Tune.
Play the guitar.
Done.

Did I miss anything?


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## Drew (Nov 14, 2005)

Just that Option #3 is far and away preferrably here in that 1.) Most techs don't know Ibanez has locking trem studs, and 2.) having a working understanding of the mechanics of an Ibanez Edge is invaluable... 

And Rich Harris is actually about as good a source/resource as everyone on Jemsite says he is - his tech section on his site is a work of beauty.  

-D


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## Kevan (Nov 14, 2005)

Drew said:


> And Rich Harris is actually about as good a source/resource as everyone on Jemsite says he is - his tech section on his site is a work of beauty.


Except for the section entitled "File Your Knife Edges!", I'll agree with ya.


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## Nik (Nov 14, 2005)

OK, thanks a lot...

Let me just say that I hope I'm not being a pain in the ass. Again, I have NEVER worked with or even examined a Floyd Rose trem so I have no idea. One quick very last, very quick question:

In order to lubricate the trem posts, do you have to take out the trem? Also, can you show me what the knife edges/posts look like so I know what to lube?

Chapstick + q-tips, right?

I'll probably go with Option 1 for a couple of months and then transition into Option 3  Thanks again!


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## Metal Ken (Nov 14, 2005)

Chapstick if you have nothing else. Get some graphite lube if at all possible.


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## Kevan (Nov 14, 2005)

Unless you're bangin' the statues at Madame Tussaud's Museum, wax is NOT a lubricant. When's the last time you asked the guys at JiffyLube to "use the green candles"?

Graphite powder will work fine, but unless you separate the trem from the posts, it won't get in where it's needed most- the point of contact (and will probably end up all over your hands...then clothes. LOL). 

I'll take some pics tonight and work on a full tutorial. I'll post after the Avs game.


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## Kevan (Nov 15, 2005)

Before I get started on this tutorial, you will all need to go pick up some school supplies (heh heh). The most important of which is the proper lubricant. There are so many different types and choices available, so I'll help trim it down for ya:

*Permatex Ultra Slick Multi-Purpose Lubricant w/PTFE*

In that link, there's a Where To Buy search box at the bottom of that page. Most of the listings are nationwide and/or online, so there's no excuse for not bringing it to class. I expect everyone to have the 3 oz. "cake decorator" or 1 lb. tub on their desk when I start class. Those bringing the aerosol can or cartridge to class will get a 2 week suspension where they will only be allowed to play through a Peavey Rage. No- you may not use any pedals or effects during your suspension- amp, cord, guitar. Done.

Now, I'm off to type out this tutorial.

NOTE: I have had the 3 oz. "cake decorator" tube for 2+ years now. I've maintained over a dozen guitars, built a bunch of Tremol-No's, and still have about 1/2 of the tube left. If I remember correctly, the tube was $2.29 USD at my local mom&pop hardware store.


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## Kevan (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, I need a couple of proof-readers before it goes live on the Tremol-No site. Pics will be taken when it's light out, then added every place you see "[PHOTO]". If you think a photo is needed elsewhere, please let me know.

Ok, here goes:
www.tremol-no.com/cleanandlube.asp

I appreciate the extra sets of eyes, folks. Thanks!


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## Nik (Nov 15, 2005)

Wow.


Thanks a million dude


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## dpm (Nov 16, 2005)




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## Ryou4Eighty6 (Dec 3, 2005)

Sup peeps, i just found that this site existed, and yes.. how sweet it is. Anyway, i just bought an ibanez rg1257 prestige with tremlo and the thing is I used to own a crappy Jay Turser, bu id tune it real low like to about a F / A# / F / A# / D# / G# / C#, now i cant tune it low and im thinking it defetas the purpose, im not a solo person really at all but i like to f*** around with higher and lower notes. ANyway how do i detune this and keep the bridge level, in fact whats teh best way to tune this? im so new to the floyd rose thing and im in a country where "guitar tech" is like a wet dream. any help i can get out of yall would be mighty appreciated. 
RSA


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## Kevan (Dec 3, 2005)

Dropping that low, and keeping any sort of string tension, you're going to need to do a few things:

1. Get some thickass strings. Probably 12's or above. 
2. Increase the number of springs the trem uses. You'll need a minimum of four.
3. Adjust the claw screws until you've reached your desired trem angle while the strings are tuned how you want. This is a balancing thing- a little more spring and a little less string....and vice versa.

Check this out:
http://www.ibanez.com/support/manuals/guitars_w-locking.pdf
Print it out and keep it handy.

(Did Ibanez stop sending the manuals out with guitars? Seems to be a shortage of them lately...)


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## Ryou4Eighty6 (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks alot for the quick reply , that was kinda spaced out. Anyway no didnt get a manual, but i figured out how to tune it once but iot kept making me tune to weird tunings i never have really used, for instance regular tuning. Its just kinda dissappointing because now i gotta wait till i get home to the us so i can get the strings and probably a little techie work done. I guess i should of got the fixed bridge, but hey this just adds new oppurtunities to my sound capabilities . By the way, whats the lowet i could get it to tune to if its in factory tuning, the worst case scenario would i hope be a trey azagthoths tuning presets ( which i cant find anywhere ). I swear with this guitar in comparison to my shitty jay turser it feels like its tryign to suck me into the 80's.


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## Naren (Dec 5, 2005)

Kevan said:


> (Did Ibanez stop sending the manuals out with guitars? Seems to be a shortage of them lately...)



No, sir, I own a 2005 RG1527 and it came with a very thick big manual in Japanese, English, French, Spanish, Italian, and German. The manual pretty much covers everything. It says "Prestige Ibanez Instruction Manual" on the front.


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## Kevan (Dec 5, 2005)

Here's your manual, Naren:

http://www.ibanez.com/support/manuals/ibz_03_prestige_manual.pdf

BTW- "Sir" is my dad; not me.


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## zimbloth (Jan 29, 2006)

It's too bad more guitars couldn't have a bridge like on Parker Flys. You can set it for hardtail, down only or floyd-rose-ish, all with the flick of a switch... and it WORKS PERFECTLY. Parkers = amazing. Too bad no 7-string model


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## TMM (Sep 13, 2006)

So... Dan was mentioning that the Edge-family tremolos don't need to worry about this ovaling, wearing out issue... is that true? Doesn't the 1527 come with an Edge Pro 7?

If not, can an 'Edge-family' tremolo be fitted into it's position so that this issue never arises?


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## dpm (Sep 14, 2006)

I can't say I've ever seen an Edge family trem with ovalled holes, but I suppose anything is possible. If the body wood was particularly soft it may happen. If you can get hold of them a set of locking Edge studs and posts is a fantastic upgrade for any Floyd.


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## Nik (Oct 13, 2006)

Hey,

I didn't want to start a new thread on this, but I have a question:

I was watching the Tremol-No installation video the other day, and at one point Kevan takes some sort of wire in the trem cavity and cuts.

What is this wire? What is it's function?

Thanks fellas!


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## OzzyC (Oct 13, 2006)

thats the ground wire....its grounds the electronics


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