# Varg Vikernes ute på prøve



## ArtDecade (Mar 14, 2009)

Just in case you haven't heard...

Varg Vikernes (Burzum) is out on parole as of 10 March 2009. I would love to see a new album someday soon, but I have a feeling that he will keep a low profile and just live a life away from the scene.


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## reptillion (Mar 14, 2009)




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## Anthony (Mar 14, 2009)

Oh shit, wow.


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## skinhead (Mar 14, 2009)

So the kvlt metal is back. I think he said he was going to buy a farm house and go to live there.


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## Carrion (Mar 14, 2009)

reptillion said:


>


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## Harry (Mar 14, 2009)

Woa, interesting news.
I'm interested to see if he comes up with anything cool music wise.


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## Dyingsea (Mar 15, 2009)

Didn't he write off the black metal scene a while back whilst in prison? I really don't think anyone really gives a crap about the guy anymore and BM has moved far beyond what happened in the early 90's.


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## yingmin (Mar 15, 2009)

Carrion said:


>


Varg played bass on that album.

Considering what he's been up to since his arrest, I see no reason to think he'll keep a low profile once he's out. He'll most likely be back in prison in a matter of months, or else he'll have fled Norway.


Dyingsea said:


> Didn't he write off the black metal scene a while back whilst in prison?


Yep. Black metal is derived from rock, which was created by black people, and is therefore meritless. Given that he seems to change his mind about as often as a 4-year old, and his only consistent stance on any subject is I AM ANGRY, I don't know if he still stands by that.


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## Gregk (Mar 15, 2009)

I think I read that he turned all neo-nazi.

As much as I loathe black metal, I did read that whole story about him killing the guy from Mayhem.

He goes into a lot of detail on the Burzum site. Burzum and Varg Vikernes - Official Website


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## AySay (Mar 15, 2009)

He belongs in jail...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 15, 2009)

According to his website he has a daughter and a boy plus another one on the way...i had no idea he had kids.


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## CrushingAnvil (Mar 15, 2009)

ArtDecade said:


> Just in case you haven't heard...
> 
> Varg Vikernes (Burzum) is out on parole as of 10 March 2009. I would love to see a new album someday soon, but I have a feeling that he will keep a low profile and just live a life away from the scene.



Last I heard he had no interest in black metal anymore and is more so a nordic heritage preservation guy. I think that is awesome, I'd like to chat to him about that kind of thing.


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 15, 2009)

Wow, I remember reading metal hammer magazine years ago, it was an article on him saying that he would be released in like 2009/2010, and I was thinking like "wow thats like 10 years from now" lol. Still, he should never be allowed out, he should have been put to death for what he did.


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## Panterica (Mar 15, 2009)

YAY!!!!
varg rules


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## død (Mar 15, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Wow, I remember reading metal hammer magazine years ago, it was an article on him saying that he would be released in like 2009/2010, and I was thinking like "wow thats like 10 years from now" lol. Still, he should never be allowed out, he should have been put to death for what he did.



lolwut? He should be put to death for defending himself?


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## DDDorian (Mar 15, 2009)

Self-defense, right.


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## død (Mar 15, 2009)

DDDorian said:


> Self-defense, right.



Aarseth was planing on killing him, and had a shotgun ready when Varg visited him. I'd say that's self-defense.


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 15, 2009)

død;1420490 said:


> Aarseth was planing on killing him, and had a shotgun ready when Varg visited him. I'd say that's self-defense.



Whether or not Varg thought Aarseth was going to kill him, he travelled all the way to Aarseth's flat and stabbed him to death. If you go out of your way to kill someone, even if you are sure they are plotting to kill you, that is still murder. In some states in America, that would get you on death row, not parole.


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## Origins (Mar 15, 2009)

I don´t like to put judgments on people but this guy is just a piece of crap.
His behavior was comparable to a teenager who puts thoughts into acts. 
I mean you can have your own opinion, you can proclaim that you are a Nazi because you want to get attention from people (like most of metal bands who wear face paintings, army clothes, etc..), but to really do something concrete in this way, it´s not provocation anymore, it´s just bullshit.
I´ve read a book about Black Metal a while ago. I wanted to see how people from this scene defend themselves about their music, their behaviors, their opinions. And when you see that a guy like Jan Axel Blomberg (Hellhammer) compares people from different origins as different ANIMALS!! Come ooon!!
Their was also something about comparing eyes color (according to what I read, brown color is supposed to remind of the color of crap ).
The only guy who has a brain in the Black Metal scene is Ihsahn.


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## DDDorian (Mar 15, 2009)

død;1420490 said:


> Aarseth was planing on killing him, and had a shotgun ready when Varg visited him. I'd say that's self-defense.



So Varg says, at least.


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## Panterica (Mar 15, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Whether or not Varg thought Aarseth was going to kill him, he travelled all the way to Aarseth's flat and stabbed him to death. If you go out of your way to kill someone, even if you are sure they are plotting to kill you, that is still murder. In some states in America, that would get you on death row, not parole.



idiot. He didn't travel to his flat to kill him, instead drop off contract papers and ask him about the alleged threats Euronymous had told others about. Euronymous planned to kill Varg, stun him, tie him up and torture him to death in the woods.
And there was no shotgun (the infamous one dead used to blow his head off with), instead Varg thought Euronymous was going for a knife when he ran back to his apartment. can't say i blame him

and if carrying a knife is guilt of murder than i'm fucked too cause i go everywhere with a knife larger than that which killed Euronymous.
Euronymous was an idiot, its no lie many of the "black circle" disliked him for his hypocrisy and his actions.
Varg is an intelligent guy, that much is obvious. I think if he planned to kill him it would still be unsolved to this day


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## liamh (Mar 15, 2009)

He also partook in other stupidity, like burning churches..
I hope he gets hit by a bus..


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## død (Mar 15, 2009)

Origins said:


> I don´t like to put judgments on people but this guy is just a piece of crap.
> His behavior was comparable to a teenager who puts thoughts into acts.
> I mean you can have your own opinion, you can proclaim that you are a Nazi because you want to get attention from people (like most of metal bands who wear face paintings, army clothes, etc..), but to really do something concrete in this way, it´s not provocation anymore, it´s just bullshit.
> I´ve read a book about Black Metal a while ago. I wanted to see how people from this scene defend themselves about their music, their behaviors, their opinions. And when you see that a guy like Jan Axel Blomberg (Hellhammer) compares people from different origins as different ANIMALS!! Come ooon!!
> ...



Dude, these are OLD interviews, from when these guys infact *were* in their teens. Yes it's fucking stupid, yes it's childish, but guess what, alot of other people think that way when they're teens aswell, and end up as really nice guys. Hellhammer is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet, and he's always distanced himself from the whole neo-nazi thing when that was the cool thing to do. He's 100 % about the music, and doesn't give a shit about the "scene". Same with Fenriz from Darkthrone. Varg wrote half of the lyrics for Transilvanian Hunger, FFS! Doesn't make Darkthrone a "nazi" band. I work with Fenriz, and he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met. 

And FWIW, Ihsahn said some pretty fucking stupid shit in his teens, just as all the other guys. Satyr and Frost from Satyricon are pretty fucking intelligent as well.



liamh said:


> He also partook in other stupidity, like burning churches..



I agree, it's a fucking disgrace.


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 15, 2009)

Panterica said:


> idiot. He didn't travel to his flat to kill him, instead drop off contract papers and ask him about the alleged threats Euronymous had told others about. Euronymous planned to kill Varg, stun him, tie him up and torture him to death in the woods.
> And there was no shotgun (the infamous one dead used to blow his head off with), instead Varg thought Euronymous was going for a knife when he ran back to his apartment. can't say i blame him
> 
> and if carrying a knife is guilt of murder than i'm fucked too cause i go everywhere with a knife larger than that which killed Euronymous.
> ...



Aarseth is dead so he can't really give his side of the story, so all we have is Varg's claims that Aarseth was conspiring to kill him. And yes, if you are carrying a knife, and you happen to kill someone with it, that is murder.


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## død (Mar 15, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Aarseth is dead so he can't really give his side of the story, so all we have is Varg's claims that Aarseth was conspiring to kill him.



Aswell as all the other people who heard Aarseth say on several occasions that he was going to kill Varg, aswell as other people he didn't like. Aarseth was probably one of the most deranged people in the scene at the time.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 15, 2009)

Origins said:


> I don´t like to put judgments on people but this guy is just a piece of crap.
> His behavior was comparable to a teenager who puts thoughts into acts.



In 1993, Varg was a teenager. Obviously, this is not a defense or a rationalization of any of his actions. I'm just putting it into perspective.

My interest is Burzum - the band, not the personality. Varg's music was in a different league than that of the Scandinavian Black Metal scene. His strange and liquid melodic lines floated over a cacophany of white noise before descending into symphonic keyboard sections. He introduced pastoral and ambient sections long before it became termed "progressive black metal." Burzum produced some fine music.


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## Makelele (Mar 15, 2009)

død;1420490 said:


> Aarseth was planing on killing him, and had a shotgun ready when Varg visited him. I'd say that's self-defense.



It might've been self-defence at first (who knows), but stabbing someone more than 20 times definately is a bit over the top.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 15, 2009)

I think he said at some point that he might do another black metal album as it's the only music he can play, but honestly I'm not too bothered either way, as, like others have said, the scene has moved way beyond that period now (both musically and ideologically), so odds are it would sound extremely dated at this point.

...And Panterica, you might want to A) Read up on more than Varg's version of events, as there's a lot of contradictory information about the murders, including Snorre Westvold Ruch's (the guy who drove him there) statement, and B) refrain from addressing other members of the boards as idiots.:-/


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## TheMasterplan (Mar 15, 2009)

Uh. I'm not really well versed in BM cause I don't really care for it, but this story is interesting to me. I know the generalities about him killing someone and burning churches and stuff, but where can one read the whole saga is you will?


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 15, 2009)

TheMasterplan said:


> Uh. I'm not really well versed in BM cause I don't really care for it, but this story is interesting to me. I know the generalities about him killing someone and burning churches and stuff, but where can one read the whole saga is you will?



As I said, a lot of the info about this is pretty contradictory in places. There's 'Lords of Chaos', the book written about it, but a lot of people from the old scene claim it's extremely sensationalised. If you want Varg's perspective then there are plenty of interviews archived on his site.
Another good book which has a chapter on the period is 'Lucifer Rising' by Gavin Bradley, which deals with the Devil in music, and is actually an interesting read anyway.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 15, 2009)

Amazon.com: Lords of Chaos: The Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground New Edition: Michael Moynihan, Didrik Soderlind: Books

Or just read a bunch of Wikipedia articles, forums, and websites and shit. I like Burzum, but I'm of the mind that Varg murdered Euronymous in cold blood. Also:


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## TheMasterplan (Mar 15, 2009)

Even still.

Those books on a first glance look like a history book for Satanism in music, I was just referring to this particular story.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 15, 2009)

TheMasterplan said:


> Even still.
> 
> Those books on a first glance look like a history book for Satanism in music, I was just referring to this particular story.



Your best bet's probably just to trawl the internet and read a few different accounts then...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 15, 2009)

I haven't finished it yet, but I imagine it goes into detail on it. It's all about the crazy shit in Norway and the evolution of black metal. Your best bet is to just Wikipedia it probably.

Varg Vikernes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DDDorian (Mar 15, 2009)

For those saying that Varg was justified because Euronymous said he was planning to kill him, come on. The majority of that scene were just juvenile blowhards caught up in their own notoreity; Euronymous in particular was known for the colossal amount of shit he talked and Varg even cites this as part of the motivation behind murdering confronting and accidentally stabbing him a few dozen times in self-defense. For some of those guys, like Samoth, it's easy to see that they were just caught in the hysteria and went with it, but Varg is and was a deranged human being who just happened to fall into a scene that reinforced his bigoted, egotistical bullshit. 

Also, let's not forget that they let him out on day-release in 2003 and he was caught heading for the border with a car full of automatic weapons?



TheMasterplan said:


> Even still.
> 
> Those books on a first glance look like a history book for Satanism in music, I was just referring to this particular story.



Lords Of Chaos is almost entirely about the goings on in Norway and, while not entirely objective, is probably the most reliable source on that whole scene. If you don't think you care enough to actually pay then the Wikipedia article gives a decent overview of the goings-on of that era.


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## Bobby (Mar 15, 2009)

Wikipedia has been outed a few times on having false information. Not to say that link is wrong I'm just throwing it out there.

I've listened to one Burzum album only because I had to review it. It was ok I guess. 

The man did what time was given to him. All we can really do is wait and see what happens.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 15, 2009)

DDDorian said:


> For those saying that Varg was justified because Euronymous said he was planning to kill him, come on. The majority of that scene were just juvenile blowhards caught up in their own notoreity; Euronymous in particular was known for the colossal amount of shit he talked and Varg even cites this as part of the motivation behind murdering confronting and accidentally stabbing him a few dozen times in self-defense. For some of those guys, like Samoth, it's easy to see that they were just caught in the hysteria and went with it, but Varg is and was a deranged human being who just happened to fall into a scene that reinforced his bigoted, egotistical bullshit.



It's especially interesting to hear Ihsahn's perspective on the whole thing, as he seems like the only guy in the scene was was able to look at what was going on at the time objectively and managed not to get caught in Varg and Euronymous' wake...


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## reptillion (Mar 15, 2009)

I just wanna comment on the picture I posted, I was reffering to the music because I had just listened to the album again, and really liked it(save for the vocals)

But, It seems in this story, everyone acted in a way they shouldnt have, but hopefully Varg changed.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't see why people still care about Varg. He's clearly mentally ill, killed someone in cold blood, and the "tr00 scene" was comprised of a bunch of stupid kids. Don't get me wrong, I love black metal and it's the reason I make music..however let's not glorify the mayhem/burzum legend by pretending it was something other than what it is. It's no different from multiple american versions of the same thing with suburban kids feeding on "fringe" status and eventually someone ends up dead when it's blown out of proportion. The only difference being the norwegian edition were musicians and that's why we know.


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## Dyingsea (Mar 15, 2009)

The best account is a documentary "Once upon a time in Norway". It has alot of the old Mayhem members etc and takes you all the way up to the point of when the murder happened and gives a ton of history. It's on youtube if anyone is interested.


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## Koshchei (Mar 15, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Wow, I remember reading metal hammer magazine years ago, it was an article on him saying that he would be released in like 2009/2010, and I was thinking like "wow thats like 10 years from now" lol. Still, he should never be allowed out, he should have been put to death for what he did.



Yeah, Euronymous was such a fine and upstanding citizen that humanity as a whole was diminished by his getting stabbed in the forehead.  I think that Varg is a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views, in much the same way that Euronymous was also a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views. 

Ultimately though, your time might be better served doing something useful with your brain, other than thinking about how unjust it is when one idiot kills another.


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## Imdeathcore (Mar 15, 2009)

wow the hell is coming....


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## Crucified (Mar 15, 2009)

fuck this guy, varg is a nazi scumbag that deserves to be in jail for murdering another human being.


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## Giamatti (Mar 15, 2009)

Crucified said:


> fuck this guy, varg is a nazi scumbag that deserves to be in jail for murdering another human being.



This, 100% fucking percent.

Scumbag.


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## Zepp88 (Mar 15, 2009)

Fuck Varg, the dudes a nut, I don't really care what he does when he gets out....


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## renzoip (Mar 15, 2009)

Zepp88 said:


> Fuck Varg, the dudes a nut, I don't really care what he does when he gets out....


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## Necky379 (Mar 15, 2009)

Crucified said:


> fuck this guy, varg is a nazi scumbag that deserves to be in jail for murdering another human being.



perfect.


personally i cant stand black metal or black metalers. i can see why some people like it but the whole scene is just so stupid to me. to me it comes across as a bunch of isolated extremists who got together, built something up bigger than they could handle, and crumbled when things got out of control. the modern black metal bands are like the retro rock asshole bands out there copying the played out, cliched styles that even the bands who originated the "sound" began getting tired of it. these bands began experimenting and expanding (ie the beatles, rolling stones) because they were getting tired of their own material and sound. just my 2 cents and i know a lot of people are going to disagree.
also as stupid/pointless/macho/dickhead as it sounds i'd love to fight one of these jackasses who think they're some satanic superhero. i've seen some interviews and footage of them being "scary" and all. they just come across as arogant punks who think they're special because they have a different point of view.


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## God Hand Apostle (Mar 15, 2009)

Would you stab them twenty-three times?


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## Panterica (Mar 15, 2009)

Makelele said:


> It might've been self-defence at first (who knows), but stabbing someone more than 20 times definately is a bit over the top.



no, it wasn't quite that many times
Euronymous fell on some sort of glass, the wounds of which were added to Varg's quote un quote stab list. and his plot to slit his throat was bullshit, Varg put the knife through his skull



Necky379 said:


> perfect.
> 
> 
> personally i cant stand black metal or black metalers. i can see why some people like it but the whole scene is just so stupid to me. to me it comes across as a bunch of isolated extremists who got together, built something up bigger than they could handle, and crumbled when things got out of control. the modern black metal bands are like the retro rock asshole bands out there copying the played out, cliched styles that even the bands who originated the "sound" began getting tired of it. these bands began experimenting and expanding (ie the beatles, rolling stones) because they were getting tired of their own material and sound. just my 2 cents and i know a lot of people are going to disagree.
> also as stupid/pointless/macho/dickhead as it sounds i'd love to fight one of these jackasses who think they're some satanic superhero. i've seen some interviews and footage of them being "scary" and all. they just come across as arogant punks who think they're special because they have a different point of view.



guess just cause they wanted to play music not to get girls, but for a deeper spiritualistic purpose their idiots right?
there's nothing more pure as real black metal, and personally i don't care how untalented some think they are



Crucified said:


> fuck this guy, varg is a nazi scumbag that deserves to be in jail for murdering another human being.



he's not a fuckin nazi, he believes and supports democracy
just because he has supreme pride for his european ancestry doesn't mean he's a nazi


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## Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

From what I've read, Varg does not associate himself with the Nazi party any longer.
And while he does have an extreme sense of pride in his European ancestry, he looks down upon other races, specifically blacks.

With all that said, that's all I remember from stuff I've read from a few months back.


As far as the murder goes, Varg claimed that Euronymous kicked him, then ran for a kitchen knife, so he stabbed him in self defense. He decided to kill him because he thought Euronymous was weak when he ran away, and didn't deserve to live.


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## Panterica (Mar 16, 2009)

Anthony said:


> He decided to kill him because he thought Euronymous was weak when he ran away, and didn't deserve to live.



if i had a nickel for every time i thought that about someone i'd have 4 BRK's, 5 Shermans, and 11 Huffys


lol


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## xshreditupx (Mar 16, 2009)

Gregk said:


> I think I read that he turned all neo-nazi.
> 
> As much as I loathe black metal, I did read that whole story about him killing the guy from Mayhem.
> 
> He goes into a lot of detail on the Burzum site. Burzum and Varg Vikernes - Official Website



man have you ever seen the inserts in all of those old BM cds. hahaha they are ALL ABOUT the white pride. man them doods loved them some white people. i dont think it would have taken much to make him go over to the neo nazi movement. crazy church burners hahaha

anyway to hell with racism. with that being said, BM is over. you can find most of that stuff in a dollar store bin, next to the furbies.


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## sartorious (Mar 16, 2009)

Crucified said:


> fuck this guy, varg is a nazi scumbag that deserves to be in jail for murdering another human being.



This, about 16 years ago, minus the "nazi scumbag" namecalling.



Koshchei said:


> I think that Varg is a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views, in much the same way that Euronymous was also a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views.





Necky379 said:


> personally i cant stand black metal or black metalers.



I'll let these stand on their own.



liamh said:


> He also partook in other stupidity, like burning churches..
> I hope he gets hit by a bus..



That doesn't sound like a Christian viewpoint (turning the other cheek), so I assume you're not Christian. "Sure, those silly Christians might do something foolish like forgive you, Varg. I, on the other hand want you to DIE!"


Overall, I'm impressed by the amount of hate in much of this thread. It seems that many people perceive Varg in the worst light (which may or may not be accurate). If he truly is that way, he might be smiling. Smiling because some people might see a bit too much of Varg in themselves. You may be different, but not too different.


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## petereanima (Mar 16, 2009)

anyone who is "defending" this ultimate lowlife called Vikernes fails really hard. keep these shitty excuses and versions of the story he stated from time to time (and everytime they changed, strange...) and just face it - this guy is a murderer and a neonazi. what do you need more? still, Akse, Det Som Engang Var and Filosofem are great records, but Vikernes... if you really think this person is "cool" or whatever...well, then any serious discussion is unnecessary.


anyway, i guess someone will kill Vikernes anyway in the near future, so that problem could solve itself..


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## Nick (Mar 16, 2009)

Panterica said:


> idiot.







Panterica said:


> and if carrying a knife is guilt of murder than i'm fucked too cause i go everywhere with a knife larger than that which killed Euronymous.



see your quote above.....



Panterica said:


> Euronymous was an idiot, its no lie many of the "black circle" disliked him for his hypocrisy and his actions.
> Varg is an intelligent guy, that much is obvious. I think if he planned to kill him it would still be unsolved to this day


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 16, 2009)

> to me it comes across as a bunch of isolated extremists who got together, built something up bigger than they could handle, and crumbled when things got out of control. the modern black metal bands are like the retro rock asshole bands out there copying the played out, cliched styles that even the bands who originated the "sound" began getting tired of it.



I'm in a black metal band and we're not 'isolated extremists'. we are sort of anti-religion but we wouldn't call ourselves satanists or atheists even. we don't copy 'cliched' styles of BM either, we're all about pushing the envelope. personally I love the BM sound but I'm in two minds about the whole extreme anti-christianity thing. I see where they're coming from, but personally believe it's a bit of a childish reaction to religion. my band tries to take a more mature approach, without ridiculing religion. after all, our bass player and keys player (who are brothers) - their dad is a priest!



> BM is over



is it? 

well how about Dimmu Borgir, Dark Funeral, Naglfar, Immortal, Anaal Nathrakh, Behemoth, Gorgoroth, Abigail Williams, Cradle of Filth, Septic Flesh and Vesania? 

it's really not over dude


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## ArtDecade (Mar 16, 2009)

petereanima said:


> still, Akse, Det Som Engang Var and Filosofem are great records, but Vikernes... if you really think this person is "cool" or whatever...well, then any serious discussion is unnecessary..



Agree. It will be interesting to see if he decides to play some more music or if he will fade away into the woodwork. I think the reason this thread is so full of venom is that many people have wondered what would happen when Varg was finally released. It looks like the whole story is still enough to incite emotion on both sides of the fence.


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## hairychris (Mar 16, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Yeah, Euronymous was such a fine and upstanding citizen that humanity as a whole was diminished by his getting stabbed in the forehead.  I think that Varg is a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views, in much the same way that Euronymous was also a crazy and profoundly untalented idiot with wildly extreme views.



Haha, true.

_All_ of the interviews I've read (even the ones, ahem, that paint him in a 'good' light) pretty much go to show that Varg is a racist loon who's full of an amazing amount of shit and has an epically over-inflated sense of self-importance.

FWIW I would not be surprised if everything he does or says (up to and including murder) is ego based.


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## Necky379 (Mar 16, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm in a black metal band and we're not 'isolated extremists'. we are sort of anti-religion but we wouldn't call ourselves satanists or atheists even. we don't copy 'cliched' styles of BM either, we're all about pushing the envelope. personally I love the BM sound but I'm in two minds about the whole extreme anti-christianity thing. I see where they're coming from, but personally believe it's a bit of a childish reaction to religion. my band tries to take a more mature approach, without ridiculing religion. after all, our bass player and keys player (who are brothers) - their dad is a priest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OKAY LETS FIGHT! haha. actually i agree with a lot of the things you said and i wish more black metal bands would take the same aproach as you. i just don't get (maybe you can explain) why these guys ridicule religious people, motherfuck christianity as a whole, and yet they're wearing upsidedown crosses and claim to be satanists? it seems like an contratdiction to me to say that "christianity is fake" if you believe in satan, they come from the same book...


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## død (Mar 16, 2009)

Necky379 said:


> OKAY LETS FIGHT! haha. actually i agree with a lot of the things you said and i wish more black metal bands would take the same aproach as you. i just don't get (maybe you can explain) why these guys ridicule religious people, motherfuck christianity as a whole, and yet they're wearing upsidedown crosses and claim to be satanists? it seems like an contratdiction to me to say that "christianity is fake" if you believe in satan, they come from the same book...



Satan exists in plenty other religions as well...


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## Necky379 (Mar 16, 2009)

i realize that but because they use christian symbols (inverted cross) i would assume they're refering to the christian version no?


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## yingmin (Mar 16, 2009)

Necky379 said:


> i realize that but because they use christian symbols (inverted cross) i would assume they're refering to the christian version no?


You're absolutely right. The "satanism" that black metal bands refer to is little more than an inversion of Christian doctrine; these bands define their worldview through explicitly Christian imagery and vocabulary, and their views would make no sense in the absence of Christianity. Many of the more enlightened members of the scene realized the inherent contradiction and eventually toned down or abandoned the satanic rhetoric.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 16, 2009)

Necky379 said:


> OKAY LETS FIGHT! haha. actually i agree with a lot of the things you said and i wish more black metal bands would take the same aproach as you. i just don't get (maybe you can explain) why these guys ridicule religious people, motherfuck christianity as a whole, and yet they're wearing upsidedown crosses and claim to be satanists? it seems like an contratdiction to me to say that "christianity is fake" if you believe in satan, they come from the same book...



it's a violent reaction to the evil things that people do due to religion i.e. the crusades, suicide bombings, bigotry of one another's beliefs leading to the deaths of mass amounts of innocent people etc... so I guess you could argue that their viewpoint is warranted. 

however, as I previously stated, I think the christians and satanists ridiculing each other is juvenile and personally try to take a more mature approach to such serious matters.

at the end of the day, without Christianity there would not be Satanism nor black metal, and without Satan then Christianity would certainly not exist!
they keep each other in business, even though they're blaming things on each other all the time.


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## Necky379 (Mar 16, 2009)

yingmin said:


> You're absolutely right. The "satanism" that black metal bands refer to is little more than an inversion of Christian doctrine; these bands define their worldview through explicitly Christian imagery and vocabulary, and their views would make no sense in the absence of Christianity. Many of the more enlightened members of the scene realized the inherent contradiction and eventually toned down or abandoned the satanic rhetoric.



exactly! thats what im trying to say but you said it better.


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## Crucified (Mar 16, 2009)

ok so maybe "nazi" isn't the right word, how about racist, murdering bigot? either way.


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## Anthony (Mar 16, 2009)

Crucified said:


> ok so maybe "nazi" isn't the right word, how about racist, murdering bigot? either way.



That works


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## Koshchei (Mar 16, 2009)

Sign your neg, you cowardly sack of shit. 

Here, let's try it again. This time, try to rise above your sub-sentient mouth-breathing fear of having me neg every thread you've ever posted in retaliation:

Mayhem was a shitty band and so was Burzum. When Varg killed Euronymous, he did music a favour. The only pity is that Euronymous was so inept that he couldn't fatally wound Varg during their exchange so that he died too.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 16, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> Sign your neg, you cowardly sack of shit.



If you keep talking like that the thread is going to get closed, you basically only have 2-3 people to choose from anyways considering there's only that many defending Varg


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## Jachop (Mar 16, 2009)

Varg seems like a prick, wanker and a fucking douche to me. But good for him. I hope he's a better person now after his time in prison.


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## Koshchei (Mar 16, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> If you keep talking like that the thread is going to get closed, you basically only have 2-3 people to choose from anyways considering there's only that many defending Varg



I slammed both of them - I have no idea which I was being negged on  It pisses me off though that somebody defending either Varg or Euronymous doesn't have the courage to stand behind his convictions. Say what you will about Varg, and his ignorant neo-nazi pinhead ethos, but at least he has the honesty to take credit for what he says. He's not hiding behind a veil of anonymity. My understanding of black metal is that there are no snipers - everything is at face value, no matter how strange it may be.

This is not to say that I don't like black metal - Ihsahn is one of the most talented metal composers I've ever heard, ditto Mustis. If I had half of the talent that either of them have, I'd be all set 

Of course, Devin Townsend is the chaotic god at the centre of my universe, but that's because not everybody gets born with so much talent/drive that they literally radiate it like an exploding sun.

Back to Varg, he's done his time. Give him a chance to screw up or succeed. My money's on "screw up" - his views are way too extreme to allow him to function in a society of any kind.


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## reptillion (Mar 16, 2009)

Jachop said:


> Varg seems like a prick, wanker and a fucking douche to me. But good for him. I hope he's a better person now after his time in prison.



What he did was moronic, and cruel, and I am a harsh believer in the death penalty, but quoting Matt Pike "No one can stop what's already begun".

He killed somewhen, went to jail, and will hopefully come out and support his family, maybe do something good for society. Now, I think murderers should be put to death, but I think he had his fair share of punishment.

And, don't flame me for this, and I'm usually not a mayhem fan, but the are some kickass riffs on DMDS. But damn, would someone shut the singer up!


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 16, 2009)

I love the vocals on DMDS


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 16, 2009)

What's with children getting worked up over black metal. THIS is why the genre suffers..because children argue such idiotic topics, take black metal ideals and blow them way out of proportion and they just become a parody of the music entirely.

I love black metal dearly, and I've learned quite a few things from it throughout the course of my life HOWEVER there's a limit. I'm not a satanist, I'm not against God or Jesus because I've never met them nor do I know them personally, (they're followers however are a different story), I prefer to live based on what I've learned from all corners of life and not just what my "Black Metal Idol" says in a song. Varg is a person..Euronymous is a person...just people. They aren't really anything to go into huge detail about because in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter..I'll NEVER meet these people.

I find it funny that black metal fanatics despite their anti christian ways are just the polar opposite of the crossitutes they are supposed to be against.

Obsessing and taking to heart the "legends" you're taught, blowing them up to mythological status and using these as the basis to which you live your life. Christians do it..you do to, but when they do it's stupid?

Covering yourself in symbols and garb to constantly remind yourself and others where you stand in the religious crusade. Nutty church folk with the WWJD hats shirts shoes and jeans and the millions of lords prayer engraved crosses they bought from Tammy Faye Baker's Jesus lovathon.....Stupid "necro" kid with giant inverted crosses in necklaces and tattoos, overly offensive t shirt with as many pentagrams as you can stuff on the damn thing, long "raven" hair, practically looking like death with all the crap you bought from UltrasatanicFuckGodMomandDad.com

The ongoing ramblings about jesus and God, how they're blessed and the constant badgering about why one should come to your church to be saved from the "evils" you know nothing about personally..The ongoing ramblings of stupid wannabe satanists claiming society and religion is silly and mundane yet they aren't old enough to even know anything about the world and they've NEVER really bothered to learn anything about the bible and they know nothing about God, just that he's the enemy

Thinking Jesus is going to come back and awaiting any sign of his return to see it's outcome...waiting for Varg to come back and awaiting any sign of his return to see it's outcome

STOP IT..just STOP. I think the point and "lifestyle" of black metal can be applied in more sane ways than just trying to outblack someone else and serve as a constant reminder of why children need adult supervision. It's not just about panda makeup spikes and ranting about Satan and the death of humanity..it's not just about the Mayhem saga, burning churches and other crap that happened when a good majority of the fans weren't even AROUND to have known anything about it while it was happening.

Grow up and end this damn thread.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 16, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I love the vocals on DMDS



Ditto, although the version of 'Freezing Moon' with Dead on vocals dwarfs the album version...

...And Drakkar is right. The kids (and bands) who think it's still 1993 and haven't realised that BM has evolved waaaaaay beyond the 'Transylvanian Hunger' blueprint are annoying. There was some great music made, but that style is now about as redundant as hair metal, nu metal, grunge, etc. Even Mayhem have moved past it...


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## ArtDecade (Mar 16, 2009)

At this point, I'm sorry I started this thread...


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 16, 2009)

ArtDecade said:


> At this point, I'm sorry I started this thread...



Not your fault...certain topics just seem to bring out the worst in some people.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 16, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> Ditto, although the version of 'Freezing Moon' with Dead on vocals dwarfs the album version...
> 
> ...And Drakkar is right. The kids (and bands) who think it's still 1993 and haven't realised that BM has evolved waaaaaay beyond the 'Transylvanian Hunger' blueprint are annoying. There was some great music made, but that style is now about as redundant as hair metal, nu metal, grunge, etc. Even Mayhem have moved past it...



I am totally with you - Dead was perfect on Freezing Moon.

I agree that Black Metal as evolved and it just keeps getting better. Look at what Enslaved have done over the past decade or so. But for me, Burzum never fit that early Black Metal blueprint. There was much more going on there. The music was morosely atmospheric and utterly brutal. I didn't start this thread to bring about an argument about whether or not Varg is a nice guy. I was more interested to see if he will get back into the studio and produce more music. 

At the end of the day, I dig Burzum regardless of how I feel about Varg as a person. I mean - Hell - I love Yngwie, but I don't want to have dinner with the guy and listen to him babble on about how cool he is...


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## Koshchei (Mar 16, 2009)

I agree that much of the genre has evolved beyond cheap theatrics. I'm fascinated by how it's evolving, as the song structures and cliches are so different from conventional metal.


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## Randy (Jan 24, 2011)

*Since he's got a new album coming out and I'd rather not dirty that thread with the drama, feel free to post your support and/or dislike for Varg in here.*


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 24, 2011)

From what I've read, I'm not exactly on his side.


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## Randy (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh yeah. He sounds like the worst kind of person. I heard he was in that big black metal documentary from last year but I never saw it or heard much about his role in it.


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## ArtDecade (Jan 24, 2011)

People dislike Varg?!  Hahaha.


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## Miek (Jan 24, 2011)

He needs therapy, at the very least. And I really hope that people stop wishing death on other people, or promoting the barbaric death penalty.


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## espman (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm defiantly curious as to if the time in jail made Varg grow up, and realize that being a psychotic sadistic neo-Nazi really isn't the way to go, or if it ended up making things even worse (a criminal among other criminals learns how to be a better criminal). I can't say that I've ever been a fan of any BM, but the BM "culture" and how people react to others personalities/insecurities, as well as their own, has always interested me. That said, I'm very curious as to what he&#8217;s going to end up doing. If he makes more music, good. If not, as barbaric as the death penalty is, it just may be the only solution that would work if Varg's ideals have been amplified.

edit: why the hell is that grey?


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

I read about the sheer amount of times he stabbed his victim, and that he said it was because he fell on glass. Bit far fetched.


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## UnderTheSign (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> He needs therapy, at the very least. And I really hope that people stop wishing death on other people, or promoting the barbaric death penalty.


I think it's funny how a bunch of clueless people run in, wikipedia search Varg, talk shit because he killed someone, then wish he was dead. How does wanting someone to die make you any better than a murderer? 

People overreact when they read his stuff. The whole bunch of second wave BM bands in Norway consisted of teenagers re-enacting swordfights in the woods and playing LOTR RPGs. Everyone changes during puberty, get over it.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm for the death penalty in some cases, but I'm not going to talk about that here. At the end of the day he killed someone, and while the motives behind it are somewhat shady, it doesn't change the end result.


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## Espaul (Jan 25, 2011)

I agree as to people overreact this when they say they want him dead and such, but there's no denying he was/is a crazy man


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

UnderTheSign said:


> How does wanting someone to die make you any better than a murderer?



I never heard about any of this varg guy and the murder and all that, but that statement is moronic at best.

Theres a bit of a differance between wishing someone to die, and actually doing it man.


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## UnderTheSign (Jan 25, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I never heard about any of this varg guy and the murder and all that, but that statement is moronic at best.
> 
> Theres a bit of a differance between wishing someone to die, and actually doing it man.


Yeah... It's called "talking crap".


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## gunshow86de (Jan 25, 2011)

UnderTheSign said:


> I think it's funny how a bunch of clueless people run in, wikipedia search Varg, talk shit because he killed someone, then wish he was dead. How does wanting someone to die make you any better than a murderer?



How about because you didn't physically end another person's life?


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah... It's called "talking crap".


 
Not really. I wish death on lots of people, the only reason I don't do it is because I might get arrested, and it'd upset my family.


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## UnderTheSign (Jan 25, 2011)

Y'all take the "" a bit too seriously.


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I'm for the death penalty in some cases, but I'm not going to talk about that here. At the end of the day he killed someone, and while the motives behind it are somewhat shady, it doesn't change the end result.


Whether or not you want to talk about it here, there is no defensible position for supporting the death penalty. All it is is state sponsored vengeance, and revenge through murder is a sick, childish desire. That being said, I can understand where the victims are coming from, but that doesn't make it right.
State sponsored murder makes all of us murderers, whether we like it or not.


UnderTheSign said:


> Yeah... It's called "talking crap".


You can talk crap all you want, but wishing for someone to die, even jokingly is a pretty disgusting thing to do.



vampiregenocide said:


> Not really. I wish death on lots of people, the only reason I don't do it is because I might get arrested, and it'd upset my family.


If you're not joking, you need serious help, and if you are joking, this kind of joke is not something that should be made by someone living in modern times.
I know this is probably an inappropriate time to bring all of this up, but this kind of thought is something that belongs in the past, guys! We live in the 21st century. 
I just want it to be clear, I'm not calling you bad people, I'm not talking down to you, I know where you're coming from. It's just something that you need to move on from.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> Whether or not you want to talk about it here, there is no defensible position for supporting the death penalty.



Sure there is. If you believe in it. Thats all the reason a person needs. 

I personally dont believe in god and think that morals are purely a man made thing. To me there is no afterlife. So if someone murders another person, then the IMO, the murderer shoudnt enjoy life on our dollar. In jail you can read, play sports, have sex, do drugs, go to college, and apperently write an album.

So yea bud, sorry to burst your bubble, but there are defensible positions on why the death penalty should be in place.


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## Explorer (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> Whether or not you want to talk about it here, there is no defensible position for supporting the death penalty. All it is is state sponsored vengeance, and revenge through murder is a sick, childish desire. That being said, I can understand where the victims are coming from, but that doesn't make it right. State sponsored murder makes all of us murderers, whether we like it or not.
> 
> If you're not joking, you need serious help, and if you are joking, this kind of joke is not something that should be made by someone living in modern times.
> 
> ...I just want it to be clear, I'm not calling you bad people, I'm not talking down to you, I know where you're coming from. It's just something that you need to move on from.



I would note that you are making the mistake of assuming your viewpoint is the correct one. You are immediately classifying the death penalty as a form of murder. 

To go a little further, would you say that a police officer who shoots a suspect in the act of harming someone a murderer? 

To give you one simple argument, do you know what the recidivism rate is for executed prisoners? I believe it is very close to zero percent. That inability to re-offend would be one really good point regarding the death penalty. If you want to argue that you personally don't accept that, that's okay, but you'd have to present more than talk about how it offends you to make a case about how it has no purpose. 

Cheers!

----

Incidentally, I'd never heard of this guy before, but I did start to read his account of what happened... and realized I didn't have to read further than his leaving the scene and going elsewhere to get a weapon with which to harm someone. Any claims of self-defense end when you leave the situation. Coming back with a weapon makes it murder.


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Sure there is. If you believe in it. Thats all the reason a person needs.
> 
> I personally dont believe in god and think that morals are purely a man made thing. To me there is no afterlife. So if someone murders another person, then the IMO, the murderer shoudnt enjoy life on our dollar. In jail you can read, play sports, have sex, do drugs, go to college, and apperently write an album.
> 
> So yea bud, sorry to burst your bubble, but there are defensible positions on why the death penalty should be in place.



I can try to convince you all I want, but I realize you've already come to your decision, flawed reasoning or not (morality is no less important without the existence of god or whether they're manmade or not), but the purpose of debate is to convince people on the fence about the subject. So let me put this forward: It costs more to execute a person than to keep them in prison for life. Even if you don't care at all about the importance of human life, and don't care about murder, surely you care about your money, as you said. (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf refer to this for many interesting facts about the death penalty, including the depressing number of *innocent* people we've killed. Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org has official statements confirming the fact that the death penalty costs more.)

You have not burst any bubbles with your poignant and cutting remarks.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> Whether or not you want to talk about it here, there is no defensible position for supporting the death penalty. All it is is state sponsored vengeance, and revenge through murder is a sick, childish desire. That being said, I can understand where the victims are coming from, but that doesn't make it right.
> State sponsored murder makes all of us murderers, whether we like it or not.
> 
> You can talk crap all you want, but wishing for someone to die, even jokingly is a pretty disgusting thing to do.
> ...


 

On your first point, I don't want to be one of those people who is all liek 'asbdbedb all humans are rubbish' but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of sick, dangerous people who are beyond help. Theres no point locking these people away forever and paying for them in taxes, so we should just get rid of them. This is a small group of people however, I don't approve of the death penalty in common practice. Only extreme cases.

You're under the impression that all human life, or infact life as a whole, is perfect and should not be messed with. A lot of people disagree, and spend their lives putting others in jeopardy and causing harm. These people take away the rights of others, and therefore do not deserve them. Pedophiles, serial killers etc, these people have no place in society. It's natural selection at the end of the day, albiet in a different form. I wish death on people like terrorists who think it is a good idea to take the lives of innocents in the name of a God who doesn't exist, Josef Fritzl who is one of the most disgusting individuals in the news for decades etc. I wish death on these people and I do not feel bad for it, because ultimately the only precious life is the one lived with respect.

You can think I'm sick for that, and that it's an archaic ideal but it's my opinion and I'll stick by it. You have your opinion and it is right in your eyes, but not mine. I believe we are too soft with degenerate scumbags who don't deserve to be alive, and they should be dealt with.


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I would note that you are making the mistake of assuming your viewpoint is the correct one. You are immediately classifying the death penalty as a form of murder.
> 
> To go a little further, would you say that a police officer who shoots a suspect in the act of harming someone a murderer?
> 
> ...



Ah, very well, I don't mind going into a little more detail. I am not automatically assuming my viewpoint is the right one, it is simply the conclusion I've come to based on all the data available to me. 

Comparing a police officer acting in the immediate defense of a person to the death penalty is a false equivalency, I'm afraid. Killing a prisoner after the fact is not acting in the immediate defense of anyone, but theoretically acting in the future defense of the public. I see where you're coming from, though. 
However, simply killing someone so they cannot commit a serious crime once more has a few issues: not necessarily all those potential candidates for the death sentence are going to commit a crime again (though, yes it is likely), not necessarily all those potential candidates can be guaranteed to be guilty, and we are merely treating a symptom, not the disease in executing them. I'd like to be clear here, and say that I believe the entire criminal justice system in the united states is inefficient and not working in the public's best interests. My moral stance on the subject is secondary to my rational stance.

Another fact of note, the death penalty has _no_ deterrence effect on crimes committed.


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> On your first point, I don't want to be one of those people who is all liek 'asbdbedb all humans are rubbish' but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of sick, dangerous people who are beyond help. Theres no point locking these people away forever and paying for them in taxes, so we should just get rid of them. This is a small group of people however, I don't approve of the death penalty in common practice. Only extreme cases.
> 
> You're under the impression that all human life, or infact life as a whole, is perfect and should not be messed with. A lot of people disagree, and spend their lives putting others in jeopardy and causing harm. These people take away the rights of others, and therefore do not deserve them. Pedophiles, serial killers etc, these people have no place in society. It's natural selection at the end of the day, albiet in a different form. I wish death on people like terrorists who think it is a good idea to take the lives of innocents in the name of a God who doesn't exist, Josef Fritzl who is one of the most disgusting individuals in the news for decades etc. I wish death on these people and I do not feel bad for it, because ultimately the only precious life is the one lived with respect.
> 
> You can think I'm sick for that, and that it's an archaic ideal but it's my opinion and I'll stick by it. But I believe we are too soft with degenerate scumbags who don't deserve to be alive, and they should be dealt with.



Again, death row costs more than life in prison. And are you a mental healthcare professional? Do you know exactly what it takes to be "beyond help?" 
In your second paragraph, you strawman my position. Please do not do that. Humanity is neither perfect, nor does it not need improvement. And you propose that we take away rights from people? Who are you to say that? EVERY person deserves rights, but they also deserve legal process. You are aware that pedophiles are mentally ill, correct? I'm not defending what they do, but their existence is not one of choice, it is one of nature. And no, it is not "natural" selection. What you describe is artificial selection.

As for your opinion on who gets to live and die, I'll set aside the necessary ego for thinking you can decide this, and let you know that choosing to stick to ignorance is the same thing that many of these people you decry for being scum do.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> I can try to convince you all I want, but I realize you've already come to your decision, flawed reasoning or not (morality is no less important without the existence of god or whether they're manmade or not), but the purpose of debate is to convince people on the fence about the subject. So let me put this forward: It costs more to execute a person than to keep them in prison for life. Even if you don't care at all about the importance of human life, and don't care about murder, surely you care about your money, as you said. (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf refer to this for many interesting facts about the death penalty, including the depressing number of *innocent* people we've killed. Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org has official statements confirming the fact that the death penalty costs more.)
> 
> You have not burst any bubbles with your poignant and cutting remarks.



your right, i have made my decision. and your preachy rhetoric wont change it.

i know it costs more to execute a prisoner, but i'm big into principals. not believing in god, i believe all we have is our principals to represent us. even though i know morals and principals are some made up shit i still think they are the best way to live.

Its the principal of the thing. Thats why you execute him. You can try to rise above like your not a human, but the simple fact is that we are humans. We are vengeful and that is our nature. When a family knows that own of their own was murdered and the murder is living a decent live in jail, thats agony in most cases.


I know you THINK your right, but there isnt a right answer here. Its only what works for each individual. Then those individuals make up groups and usually the majority wins.

I'm smart enough to know that my stance isnt right, its just want i think works. I'm also smart enough to know there isnt a right answer.

get off your soap box sally jessie raphel


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

Woah, I never said I'd be the one to decide who lives and who dies specifically, how the process is run, and what makes a person viable for such a punishment. As you have said, I am not qualified to make such a claim. I do however, think a system should be put in place with people who do know how it works better than I do. You're putting words into my mouth there.

As for taking rights from people, as a member of society I have every RIGHT to say that. It is my opinion. I believe that the rights of the just supercede the rights of the wicked. I am aware pedophila is an illness of sorts, and if it can be dealt with then so be it, but if this person is liek some pedophiles, who are more twisted in their actions (and lets face it, you have to be pretty fucked to begin with to fold to such desires) then those people need to be dealt with in a more extreme manner. 

You're making me out to be some egotistical, dark-age fool which I resent. You have again assumed your position is the right one, despite denying this. I realise the face of what I believe is harsh, but I think it should be implemented in a fair way so that anyone who is subject to it, is dealt with carefully and respectfully in whatever way possible. I respect your opinion, please respect mine.


EDIT - As for the costs, depends how its done, and some prisons spend a lot more on prisoners than necessary (especially here).


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

I apologize if it seems like I'm preaching, I'm not trying to talk down to you, I'm just trying to explain things. I admit, I am a terrible, _terrible_ debater. No hard feelings?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

actually, the right answer is "i have different views than you and i can respect that, instead of telling you your wrong and that there is no argument againt me". thats what you should be saying. instead of trolling


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> I apologize if it seems like I'm preaching, I'm not trying to talk down to you, I'm just trying to explain things. I admit, I am a terrible, _terrible_ debater. No hard feelings?



perfect. its all good man


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> actually, the right answer is "i have different views than you and i can respect that, instead of telling you your wrong and that there is no argument againt me". thats what you should be saying. instead of trolling



I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm not trolling. I just wanted people to understand my point of view.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jan 25, 2011)

Miek said:


> I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm not trolling. I just wanted people to understand my point of view.



perfectly cool. your just going to ruffle feathers if you express your point AND try to say that there is no other arguments for other veiws besides your own.


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## Miek (Jan 25, 2011)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> perfectly cool. your just going to ruffle feathers if you express your point AND try to say that there is no other arguments for other veiws besides your own.



I apologize, I got a little...overbearing when I said that, but the idea that innocent people are still being executed along with criminals bothers me.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

It bothers me too, thats why if it was done it wouldhave to be done effectively, and not for any old murder case. I'm talking extreme cases. I don't think Varg should be executed for instance.


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## josh pelican (Jan 25, 2011)

I didn't bother reading anything anyone had to say. I've liked a lot of Varg's work. I don't care if he's your best friend or not.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 25, 2011)

Not disputing the quality of his music, I couldn't care less about who likes him and who doesn't.


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## ArtDecade (Jan 26, 2011)

Sorry, lads. Varg already has a best friend.


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## Randy (Jan 26, 2011)

Awwwwww. Varg loves cats.


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## UnderTheSign (Jan 26, 2011)

I used to have a photoshopped version of that pic, with the club turned into a big flower, and his sad face made into a smile


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## epsylon (Jan 27, 2011)

The wikipedia article is to be taken cautiously (check out the discussion page) : it's probably biased a bit. The burzum.org site has a lot of content presumably written by Varg himself. It's an interesting read. I disagree with a lot of what he says (and thinks) - but he doesn't seem to be the average nazi idiot most people think he is.

And his music is AFAIK apolitical, so you don't need to embrace his opinions to appreciate it .

Belus was a fucking awesome album, one of my favorite BM albums. The production isn't too BM-ish, it's definitely raw and old school, but not highly distorted as his previous releases (Filosofem). He definitely has his own style, I remember reading on his site that he used to hang out in a club listening to house music and that it was an inspiration for him to create these hypnotive, repetitive ambient BM tracks that we all love.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 2, 2011)

Boy oh boy i love it when douchebag little pussies neg rep you and dont have the balls to sign it.


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## UnderTheSign (Feb 2, 2011)

epsylon said:


> Belus was a fucking awesome album, one of my favorite BM albums. The production isn't too BM-ish, it's definitely raw and old school, but not highly distorted as his previous releases (Filosofem). He definitely has his own style, I remember reading on his site that he used to hang out in a club listening to house music and that it was an inspiration for him to create these hypnotive, repetitive ambient BM tracks that we all love.


Varg is known for posting a LOT of crap on his website. One day he'd tell you a story about how he thinks the grass is green, the next day he'd tell you the grass is more yellow-ish. Or there's no grass at all.


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