# Ibanez Apex II Refinish - Particle Board? Huh!?



## Webmaestro (Jul 3, 2013)

My Ibanez Apex II is currently with Pat Wilkins being refinished in a natural/ebony stain (similar to an M8M). He just finished sanding the gross, green factory finish off and called to tell me that he found... get this...

... a layer of particle board on the headstock face (under the paint).

What the hell? Anyone heard of this before? How is putting a layer of particleboard on the face of a headstock, under the final paint, cheaper/faster than finishing the guitar traditionally? Is there some other reason Ibanez would do this?

Removing said particle board would add $$ and time to the project, so I had to modify my plans, have him leave it in place, and lay solid black over it instead. Annoyed, but I need to stay within budget.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 3, 2013)

You're shitting me.

Did you buy it first hand? If so, I'd be calling Ibanez and asking what the f*** is up. If they don't know what the f*** is up, post a detailed review everywhere on the interweb explaining what the f*** is up.

That's ridiculous.


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## Leuchty (Jul 3, 2013)

Any chance we could get a pic?


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## Daf57 (Jul 3, 2013)

I have noticed a thin, like about 1/32", layer on the head stock face - if looking from the side. Didn't know it was particle board. That layer is what the paint is applied to. May have been cheaper/easier to color that than to paint the head stock directly. Not sure.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> You're shitting me.
> 
> Did you buy it first hand? If so, I'd be calling Ibanez and asking what the f*** is up. If they don't know what the f*** is up, post a detailed review everywhere on the interweb explaining what the f*** is up.
> 
> That's ridiculous.



No, I bought it used, and got a decent deal on it to boot.



CYBERSYN said:


> Any chance we could get a pic?



I could ask Pat to take a pic, but I doubt he will. I asked him about sending progress pics once, but I think he forgot. He's pretty slammed right now.



Daf57 said:


> I have noticed a thin, like about 1/32", layer on the head stock face - if looking from the side. Didn't know it was particle board. That layer is what the paint is applied to. May have been cheaper/easier to color that than to paint the head stock directly. Not sure.



Yeah, it HAD to be a time/cost saving measure... these being Indo guitars and all. I just don't understand how that's better/cheaper/faster. I asked Pat for his theories, so I'm waiting to hear back on that.


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## Daf57 (Jul 3, 2013)

They are really nice guitars, I really like mine, but they are Indonesian and I'm sure they took the cheapest routes to accomplish design ideas. Threw a monkey wrench into your plans, sorry about that, but really not an issue otherwise.  I'm sure yours will look awesome when done.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 3, 2013)

Daf57 said:


> They are really nice guitars, I really like mine, but they are Indonesian and I'm sure they took the cheapest routes to accomplish design ideas. Threw a monkey wrench into your plans, sorry about that, but really not an issue otherwise.  I'm sure yours will look awesome when done.



It's actually not a huge deal in the grand scheme. The body will be a natural ebony, similar to an M8M, and the headstock will be solid black. I'm fine with that. As long as it semi-matches the body, which Pat assured me it will.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 3, 2013)

Still.. the guy who decided to slap particle board on the headstock to cut a corner is suffering from a serious case of NBPE.


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## skeels (Jul 3, 2013)

I know they did this on some of their bodies. I've had more than a few that had veneers under the paint. 

My 7421 had a nice piece of flamed maple. 

And they slopped black paint over it. Go figure. ....


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## Yo_Wattup (Jul 3, 2013)




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## Swyse (Jul 3, 2013)

I can't imagine it being particle board, unless the shit cheap desks made out of isn't particle board. Wouldn't it soak up more paint than it would be worth?


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## MAGGOTBRAIN (Jul 4, 2013)

Gibson uses a fiber veneer creation on headstocks too.,.,cant be all that bad eh...lol


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## Ulvhedin (Jul 4, 2013)

Pardon me, but what's particle board? Is it that compressed sawdust/woodchip stuff? *owns apexII as well*


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 4, 2013)

*Everyone calm down. 
*

It's a fiber veneer. It's not structural and doesn't at all effect the sound. It's there to make the application of the finish to the headstock more uniform and allow for easier logo installation. 

It's the same thing you find on ESPs, Gibsons, and tons of other guitars of nearly all price ranges. 

I'm honestly shocked that the luthier you're using didn't know about this, as it's a practice going back to the 20's and used on TONS of production and custom instruments. If he's saying it's going to take a lot of time and money to remove, take your business elsewhere as there are 16 year old kids who have removed it quite easily on their RG7321s. It's a fraction of a centimeter thick, and as I said: not at all structural. A few minutes with a belt sander and it's gone for good and ready for a new finish. Take the time and look through all the Ibanez RG7321, RG7x2x, and more refinish threads. All of those guitars had the same fiber veneer and it didn't really seem to be too much of a hiccup, in fact few even mention it as it's actually easier to remove, on average, than the thick poly used on the bodies as it's a single layer an not multiple sealer/color/clear layers. 

If the process is good enough for these:














Then it's probably okay on your Apex II. 



AwDeOh said:


> You're shitting me.
> 
> Did you buy it first hand? If so, I'd be calling Ibanez and asking what the f*** is up. If they don't know what the f*** is up, post a detailed review everywhere on the interweb explaining what the f*** is up.
> 
> That's ridiculous.



Calm down bucko, you might just get some learn'n.  

Have you really not heard of this before? I see you're into luthiery, so I'd assume you'd heard of this very old practice. 



Daf57 said:


> I have noticed a thin, like about 1/32", layer on the head stock face - if looking from the side. Didn't know it was particle board. That layer is what the paint is applied to. May have been cheaper/easier to color that than to paint the head stock directly. Not sure.





Swyse said:


> I can't imagine it being particle board, unless the shit cheap desks made out of isn't particle board. Wouldn't it soak up more paint than it would be worth?





Ulvhedin said:


> Pardon me, but what's particle board? Is it that compressed sawdust/woodchip stuff? *owns apexII as well*



It's not "particle board", which is essentially sawdust, woodchips, and glue. It's fiberboard which is individual wood fibers which are then glued/epoxied together. While both are wood composites, they have different manufacturing processes and properties. 

Fiberboard is common in guitar construction; it's the same stuff used to make pickups. It can also be used for cavity covers and as the base/layer in pickguards, especially those built to more vintage spec.

Here's a visual comparison of the two (most fiberboard in guitar construction is dyed black or dark brown):


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## Manurack (Jul 4, 2013)

Y'all just got schooled by MaxOfMetal


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 4, 2013)

Manurack said:


> Y'all just got schooled by MaxOfMetal


Welcome to SSO's luthiery section.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks Max--exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Unfortunately, Pat (Wilkins) convinced me it would be a big deal to remove, so I've already instructed him to proceed with putting a solid black finish on the headstock. Not a huge deal, because it'll still relatively match the body finish, but it's too late for me to turn back now.

Your suggestion to find a different luthier is already a done deal though. Not for this project, but for the next. Based on the rest of my experience with this refinish, I'll go elsewhere for my next project. Pat is a really nice guy, and great at his craft, but overall I've not been happy with this whole experience (which I won't go into here).


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## AwDeOh (Jul 4, 2013)

Nup, never heard of it before Max. I've only refinished a couple of Ibanez guitars, and I don't really pay attention to large companies. About my previous comment, I just like to use foul language to illustrate a point, it's easier than bold/italics/underline 

I can understand it being used on cheap guitars, that's fine. You're really getting what you're paying for. But if it's common practice on 'top of the line' guitars from ESP, Gibson, Gretch etc., then IMO it's wrong. The fact that it only shows up if you decided to refinish the guitar is beside the point.

In New Zealand, we call that "Mutton dressed as Lamb".


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 4, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Nup, never heard of it before Max. I've only refinished a couple of Ibanez guitars, and I don't really pay attention to large companies. About my previous comment, I just like to use foul language to illustrate a point, it's easier than bold/italics/underline
> 
> I can understand it being used on cheap guitars, that's fine. You're really getting what you're paying for. But if it's common practice on 'top of the line' guitars from ESP, Gibson, Gretch etc., then IMO it's wrong. The fact that it only shows up if you decided to refinish the guitar is beside the point.
> 
> In New Zealand, we call that "Mutton dressed as Lamb".


 
You know absolutley nothing about it other than it exists and it's wrong?  

This isn't some magic easy-way-out to finishing the headstock. It merely helps create uniformity, something you want on large scale production instruments. There's a finite amount of material you want to remove from the headstock, for material reasons, and putting this assures not too much needs to be removed to make it finish-ready. 

They still need to be inlaid seperately which improves build time in a production environment as the inlay team can work on it without the whole guitar being tied up. 

A finish still needs to be expertly applied, and the edges need to be made true.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 4, 2013)

I didn't know it existed, and I wouldn't have expected it to. If it's used on cheap guitars, fine. I'm sure there are other corners being cut too, and that's not limited to guitar manufacture. I've never really paid attention to the Apex (not to mention most of the main guitar companies these days) but if it's happening on the "high end" guitars coming out of the big factories, I don't see it as a good thing.

But like I said, my opinion.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 4, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I didn't know it existed, and I wouldn't have expected it to.



Wait, you didn't know that veneers are applied to headstocks? Most guitars do in fact. Regardless if they're factory made, shop made, or hand made. 

The application here is the same as any guitar you've ever seen with a wood laminate veneer. 



> If it's used on cheap guitars, fine. I'm sure there are other corners being cut too, and that's not limited to guitar manufacture.



I still don't see how you liken this to cutting corners. It's just a different way to do the same thing. Kinda like saying bolt-on joints are cutting corners compared to set necks. 



> I've never really paid attention to the Apex (not to mention most of the main guitar companies these days) but if it's happening on the "high end" guitars coming out of the big factories, I don't see it as a good thing.



So is the problem your disdain for production instruments is influencing your view on the technique itself? If so, you might want to look into the myriad of high end, handmade, small shop guitars that feature this as well. 



> But like I said, my opinion.



I guess I'm just curious as to the basis of your opinion. In fact, I'm not exactly sure what you're opinion is about. Do you dislike the idea of veneers in general, or is the issue that it's done using different materials? Please help me understand.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 4, 2013)

I must be missing something here dude. 

I'm quite familiar with veneering nice looking woods on to things. But I'm quite *un*familiar with *fiber board* being used as a headstock cap. Never heard of it, never seen it done in any of the company build videos, never read about it. I know what it is, I still have a hole in my thumb working with the crap last week when I replaced the big round base foot underneath a recliner that snapped from being leaned back on too much.

What benefit does it have over a cheap plate of maple veneer, when it comes to making a headstock plate that can be sent off for inlay as part of the production line, besides saving a couple of cents?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 4, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I must be missing something here dude.
> 
> I'm quite familiar with veneering nice looking woods on to things. But I'm quite *un*familiar with *fiber board* being used as a headstock cap. Never heard of it, never seen it done in any of the company build videos, never read about it. I know what it is, I still have a hole in my thumb working with the crap last week when I replaced the big round base foot underneath a recliner that snapped from being leaned back on too much.
> 
> What benefit does it have over a cheap plate of maple veneer, when it comes to making a headstock plate that can be sent off for inlay as part of the production line, besides saving a couple of cents?



I'm sorry, I'm a really surprised that you've never heard of it, considering the scale in which it has been used over the decades. Think about it, since the 20's every Gibson has had it, almost every Gretsch, every Epiphone (pre and post Gibson), even super high end archtop makers have used it. 

If it's being covered in a finish, why does it matter what the material is? It doesn't add anything tonally, so why not go for consistency of material. 

It's not like it's being used to make a significant amount of the guitar.

Like I said, I still don't totally understand why you're knocking it. Is it because you think it cheapens the instrument as a whole?


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## AwDeOh (Jul 4, 2013)

Yeah, I do. I know that might be a little idealistic, but that's the truth.

If the fiber board has a genuine benefit over real wood that allows them to expedite the production and get a better result, then I can understand it being done on low end guitars. But I think it's seriously cheating the customer when you're doing it on anything above a low priced production guitar.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 4, 2013)

To put it another way.. think it like the Europe 'Meat Adulteration Scandal'. Nobody knew they were eating horse meat until someone did a DNA test on it. It's perfectly edible, quite healthy, and nobody felt any different despite it being described as a "cultural taboo". Nobody knew, and I'm sure the companies involved thought.. "hey, they won't know the difference, who cares?".

But it's still not cool to do it.. :/


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 5, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Yeah, I do. I know that might be a little idealistic, but that's the truth.
> 
> If the fiber board has a genuine benefit over real wood that allows them to expedite the production and get a better result, then I can understand it being done on low end guitars. But I think it's seriously cheating the customer when you're doing it on anything above a low priced production guitar.



For all intensive purposes, fiberboard is wood compared to a thin 1/64th to 1/32th inch wood veneer. I don't think I have to tell you how ridiculously cheap wood veneer is. It's not like veneer is a premium product. 

In fact, structurally, fiber at that thickness is significantly stronger, and even less porous compared to most other woods. That's one of the chief reasons it's used. 



AwDeOh said:


> To put it another way.. think it like the Europe 'Meat Adulteration Scandal'. Nobody knew they were eating horse meat until someone did a DNA test on it. It's perfectly edible, quite healthy, and nobody felt any different despite it being described as a "cultural taboo". Nobody knew, and I'm sure the companies involved thought.. "hey, they won't know the difference, who cares?".
> 
> But it's still not cool to do it.. :/



This isn't some hidden "black eye" in the industry. Nowhere are the builders who use it saying you're getting anything different. It's common knowledge for many. Why else would LMII be selling it [fiber board sheets] for that task?

Now, this might actually surprise you, but for awhile Gibson was using real wood (Holly in this case) on some of it's low end guitars because using real wood was actually cheaper. I don't think they're doing it anymore, but it goes to show that fiber isn't a second class material.


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## Navid (Jul 5, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For all intensive purposes, fiberboard is wood compared to a thin 1/64th to 1/32th inch wood veneer. I don't think I have to tell you how ridiculously cheap wood veneer is. It's not like veneer is a premium product.
> 
> In fact, structurally, fiber at that thickness is significantly stronger, and even less porous compared to most other woods. That's one of the chief reasons it's used.



This is really interesting, thanks for the info.
I didn't know this technique was used either. But I don't own any production guitars anyway


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## Walterson (Jul 5, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not "particle board", which is essentially sawdust, woodchips, and glue. It's fiberboard which is individual wood fibers which are then glued/epoxied together.



Nope, vulkanized fibre is basically cotton rag cardboard which is soaked with chemicals and treated at high temperatures and pressure.... there is no glue or epoxy involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcanized_fibre




MaxOfMetal said:


> Now, this might actually surprise you, but for awhile Gibson was using real wood (Holly in this case) on some of it's low end guitars because using real wood was actually cheaper. I don't think they're doing it anymore, but it goes to show that fiber isn't a second class material.



Sorry but they use holly veneer on their high end custom shop guitars only, cause they did in the 50ths and they try to keep those things close to 50s Specs....

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Ele...Collectors-Choice-7-1960-Les-Paul-Shanks.aspx
_
"....accurate reissue headstock shape with holly veneer and period-correct Gibson logo...."
_


But I agree: It's not a bad thing to use vulcanized fibre on a headstock, it's additional work and makes the headstock more stable... I use it too and I like it. It's nice to work with and less prone to cracking like thin ebony veneer.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 5, 2013)

Walterson said:


>



The above pic is exactly what Pat Wilkins described to me when I asked him to clarify what he found. He described it as a black material--not "fiberboard" in the literal sense--and went on to give me the same history-of-use outlined by several others in this thread.

So, I have my answer. I definitely learned something in all of this.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 11, 2013)

So, the guitar just arrived today. I'm not a happy camper. Not happy at all, but I don't feel like posting a big rant here. Suffice to say the finish is far from what I was wanting. Nothing like what I specified to him via numerous photos and phone conversations.

Has anyone else had dealings with Pat Wilkins?

This is my first refinish, and it's been a !*#@ing nightmare. Screw this. Going forward I'll just play my guitars as-is, till the goddamn factory paint falls off.


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## simonXsludge (Jul 12, 2013)

Sorry to hear this. Any photos that you can show of his job? I guess most of us have a pretty good idea of what you wanted in the first place, since you said you wanted a finish kind of similiar to the M8M's.


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## Suitable (Jul 12, 2013)

Its Brazilian MDF!!! Ya'll crave it till ya got it  and sorry to hear about the shit re finish  ! Post pics dude! Have you called or told pat that your not happy?


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## axxessdenied (Jul 12, 2013)

Webmaestro said:


> So, the guitar just arrived today. I'm not a happy camper. Not happy at all, but I don't feel like posting a big rant here. Suffice to say the finish is far from what I was wanting. Nothing like what I specified to him via numerous photos and phone conversations.
> 
> Has anyone else had dealings with Pat Wilkins?
> 
> This is my first refinish, and it's been a !*#@ing nightmare. Screw this. Going forward I'll just play my guitars as-is, till the goddamn factory paint falls off.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 12, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Yeah, I do. I know that might be a little idealistic, but that's the truth.
> 
> If the fiber board has a genuine benefit over real wood that allows them to expedite the production and get a better result, then I can understand it being done on low end guitars. But I think it's seriously cheating the customer when you're doing it on anything above a low priced production guitar.



I've seen you ask for the benefit about 1000x now... And every time Max has told you the benefit is IMPROVED UNIFORMITY TO THE FINISH WHICH YOU WOULD WANT ON ANY LARGE SCALE PRODUCTION INSTRUMENT


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## AwDeOh (Jul 12, 2013)

^ Week old argument is week old.. move on.


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## Andromalia (Jul 12, 2013)

Manurack said:


> Y'all just got schooled by MaxOfMetal


Well I guess that's the case of half of SSO.


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## Webmaestro (Jul 13, 2013)

shitsøn;3638608 said:


> Sorry to hear this. Any photos that you can show of his job? I guess most of us have a pretty good idea of what you wanted in the first place, since you said you wanted a finish kind of similar to the M8M's.



I was going to take pics, but Pat really came through: he was extremely apologetic, admitted dropping the ball, and has paid return shipping and agreed to re-do the guitar at no charge. The guitar went back to him yesterday.

So, that's why I didn't take pics and go the rant-y route with this thread.

Honestly, what he did looked great--it just was completely opposite of what I wanted, and not the kind of finish I like, in general. He sent me a black/natural stained guitar with a thick, high gloss finish. Nothing anywhere close to the type of natural finish on the M8M (and similar "natural" guitars).

I'm looking forward to posting pics once it's finished.


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## Carver (Jul 14, 2013)

ive come across this stuff a few times, its amazing... i know.. but a sander can remove this stuff pretty damn fast, and yes it does stink when you are removing it.

as for the "luthier" that claims it is expensive to remove... kinda floored by that. how in the hell is it expensive to remove? just how? if he is calling in Lady Cleo to work her voodoo magic and have it disipate that way, yes that will be expensive calling all those 1 - 900 lines for voodoo work. but to save him the head ache and time, maybe just tell him to sand the bish off there. 

hard to remove.. my ass

dude sorry to hear the product wasnt what was expected upon completion.. but dont worry if you stick with ibanez, that paint will fall off in no time. just yell at it. it will know what to do.

in all seriousness though, i feel for you, a refin is something that to the majority is a simple request, but there is the whole "through the eye of the artist" thing, ask 40 people to draw an apple, you may only like 2 of the drawings where all 40 artists are very compitent at what they do. its a taste thing. and a vision, sounds to me like your "luthier" doesnt have the same vision as you. when ever i take on a build or a project for a pall, i always make sure our vision is the same before i say "yes" the worst is when someone hands me something for a refin, and says "do what you want with it"


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## ZXIIIT (Jul 15, 2013)

Carver said:


> but dont worry if you stick with ibanez, that paint will fall off in no time. just yell at it. it will know what to do.



That's funny, my 2004 RG7321 has been to Florida and back, to Mexico, up and down the Southern West coast and to the desert on stage TONS of times, not to mention dropped, thrown, stepped on, hit, YELLED at and banged so many times, yet it only has 2-3 small spots on it that cracked through the clear coat/paint.

Anyway, why does this thread have no pics?


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## simonXsludge (Jul 15, 2013)

ZOMB13 said:


> That's funny, my 2004 RG7321 has been to Florida and back, to Mexico, up and down the Southern West coast and to the desert on stage TONS of times, not to mention dropped, thrown, stepped on, hit, YELLED at and banged so many times, yet it only has 2-3 small spots on it that cracked through the clear coat/paint.


I have made the same experience with my main touring 6-string. It is even the cheapest of all my Ibbys, but has great playability, so it's been going through over 200 shows. Without a single chip in the paint, it's fully intact.


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## Carver (Jul 15, 2013)

That's cuz you guys are playing shows with them. Yelling at them is what ruins the paint.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> ^ Week old argument is week old.. move on.



That's what I was saying to you in my head the entire first page...


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 15, 2013)

Webmaestro said:


> I was going to take pics, but Pat really came through: he was extremely apologetic, admitted dropping the ball, and has paid return shipping and agreed to re-do the guitar at no charge. The guitar went back to him yesterday.
> 
> So, that's why I didn't take pics and go the rant-y route with this thread.
> 
> ...



Well that worked out nicely.


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## Carver (Jul 15, 2013)

ZOMB13 said:


> That's funny, my 2004 RG7321 has been to Florida and back, to Mexico, up and down the Southern West coast and to the desert on stage TONS of times, not to mention dropped, thrown, stepped on, hit, *YELLED *at and banged so many times, yet it only has 2-3 small spots on it that cracked through the clear coat/paint.
> 
> Anyway, why does this thread have no pics?


 
ahh i see the issue here, you have to scream at them from your bowels. screeming from the top of your lungs is for people with blonde hair, you know,. words like toooonight! and Wooooman!! and pretty much any main intersection in down town hollywood.
screaming from your bowels words like Deeecayyyy and Deeennntist this is what checks paint.


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## Rob99GT (Aug 16, 2013)

This thread is over a month old but I want to see how it turned out! Pics please!!!


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## rikomaru (Aug 16, 2013)

secondededededed >.<


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## Webmaestro (Aug 16, 2013)

Rob99GT said:


> This thread is over a month old but I want to see how it turned out! Pics please!!!



No shit. This whole process has kinda sucked, and I doubt I'll ever have another guitar refinished. It just isn't worth all the stress and heartache (not to mention being without my guitar for months).

Just talked to Pat about a week ago, and he says he's finished stripping off the old finish and re-staining. Says he just has to seal it now. I wish he'd send some progress pics, but that'll never happen (I've asked several times). You'll see it when I do, and I feel like I *MIGHT* have the guitar back sometime within the next 30 days.


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## Rob99GT (Aug 17, 2013)

Webmaestro said:


> No shit. This whole process has kinda sucked, and I doubt I'll ever have another guitar refinished. It just isn't worth all the stress and heartache (not to mention being without my guitar for months).
> 
> Just talked to Pat about a week ago, and he says he's finished stripping off the old finish and re-staining. Says he just has to seal it now. I wish he'd send some progress pics, but that'll never happen (I've asked several times). You'll see it when I do, and I feel like I *MIGHT* have the guitar back sometime within the next 30 days.



Damn man, that is fkd up... I hope it looks good when u finally get it back


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 17, 2013)

Did you have him sand the fiber board off the headstock this time?

BTW, for all the fiber board haters,you should see what many boutique pickup makers use for bobbin material. You'd shit your pants!


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## Webmaestro (Aug 17, 2013)

MF_Kitten said:


> Did you have him sand the fiber board off the headstock this time?



Well, communication has been a real problem. When I called him, I was expecting to solidify a few things and do a final gut-check before he begins... but come to find out he's proceeded AGAIN without consulting me and is now almost finished. As a customer, I expect a final check-in before committing to the work, maybe even some kind of visual sample or photo of how the finish might come out. Nope.

So no, I never got a chance to discuss the headstock veneer. I'm just crossing my fingers that whatever he's doing this time around is satisfactory. At this point, I just want my axe back, so I'll take whatever he sends me.


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## rikomaru (Aug 18, 2013)




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## Webmaestro (Sep 21, 2013)

Okay folks, just got the guitar back from the tech, and I'm extremely blown away by how much better this guitar now looks, feels, and... most importantly... sounds. This refinish isn't perfect, as you'll see in some of the pics, but I'm overall very happy.

The guitar had some issues prior to the refin, so my tech did a full level/crown/polish, filled and redrilled the neck mounting holes, fashioned a new bone nut, and a host of other little things to make the guitar play beautifully.

Specs:

*Guitar:* 2010 Ibanez Apex II (bought used)
*Pickups:* Bare Knuckle Aftermath calibrated set
*Nut:* handmade from bone blank
*Body Finish:* Natural ebony stain with light coat of satin lacquer (I think) to prevent the color from rubbing off
*Headstock Finish*: Our first communication issue. Was supposed to match body, but ended up as a straight, gloss lacquer. Looks okay.
*Hardware:* Original Apex II "powder cosmo" hardware


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## Tesla (Sep 22, 2013)

I love it! The hardware matches up so well with that finish.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Sep 22, 2013)

Looks great man


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## Leuchty (Sep 22, 2013)

That looks great man!


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## Alejandro Moreno (Sep 22, 2013)

Webmaestro said:


> Okay folks, just got the guitar back from the tech, and I'm extremely blown away by how much better this guitar now looks, feels, and... most importantly... sounds. This refinish isn't perfect, as you'll see in some of the pics, but I'm overall very happy.
> 
> The guitar had some issues prior to the refin, so my tech did a full level/crown/polish, filled and redrilled the neck mounting holes, fashioned a new bone nut, and a host of other little things to make the guitar play beautifully.
> 
> ...





I think it looks pretty good! And you have your axe back. Maybe the Slash logo would bring the headstock alive. Anyway, it just rocks. I want one too!!!


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## Webmaestro (Sep 22, 2013)

Alejandro Moreno said:


> I think it looks pretty good! And you have your axe back. Maybe the Slash logo would bring the headstock alive. Anyway, it just rocks. I want one too!!!



Yeah, I did order a logo... but bestdecals.com dragged their asses so long that I just told Pat to finish the guitar without it. Naturally, the decal arrived shortly after Pat had already finished the headstock 

I guess I could just stick the decal on, but that would look kinda ghetto, and I think it would eventually start to peel off.


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## Prophetable (Sep 22, 2013)

Webmaestro said:


> Yeah, I did order a logo... but bestdecals.com dragged their asses so long that I just told Pat to finish the guitar without it. Naturally, the decal arrived shortly after Pat had already finished the headstock
> 
> I guess I could just stick the decal on, but that would look kinda ghetto, and I think it would eventually start to peel off.



You could send it out to have the headstock refinished.

You'd only have to wait another huge amount of time to get your (very good looking) guitar back. 

I like the finish, though. I know it was a hassle while you were waiting but at least you ended up with a good result.


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## Tesla (Sep 22, 2013)

If it's any help, I just stuck a decal from BestDecals on my RG and it's held great, been 8 months now! Looks good too!


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## Webmaestro (Sep 22, 2013)

Tesla said:


> If it's any help, I just stuck a decal from BestDecals on my RG and it's held great, been 8 months now! Looks good too!



I'm seriously considering it.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Sep 22, 2013)

You should send your tech just the neck to have the headstock refinished to match the body and also put on the logo  

That said, the guitar looks awesome!


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## Pikka Bird (Sep 23, 2013)

That looks smashing. I think it'd be 100% if you rubbed some fine steel wool on that glossy headstock and just stuck the logo on top.


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## Webmaestro (Sep 23, 2013)

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> You should send your tech just the neck to have the headstock refinished to match the body and also put on the logo
> 
> That said, the guitar looks awesome!



Unfortunately, he doesn't do anything in the realm of refinishing... beyond repairing chips and cracks. I actually tried to get HIM to do this refin originally, but he just doesn't have the equipment or facilities. He's the guitar tech at the company that owns and runs guitarelectronics.com. Just a small shop here in Phoenix. They do amazing amp and guitar work... but not refinishing or serious woodwork.


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