# George Martin - A Song Of Ice And Fire



## petereanima

for those of you still reading books (real ones, with pages, paer and stuff), and also liking epic fantasy novels - i can only recommend you to read George Martins "A Song Of Ice And Fire" - Saga.

first: this is a bit "less fantasy" than some might be used to. so at the moment (i'm at the beginning of part 2 at the moment) - no Orks, Elves etc. appeared, and also it is much more "realistiv" when it comes up to brutality and sexuality. which i like, because it fits the characters perfect, and as it is pretty much "medieval" and the Middle Ages were brutal and harsh times...i dont really get the point of the critics on this. of course its not a childs book.

anyway: while the first half of part 1 (A Game Of Thrones) was an introduction to the characters mostly, it got more and more exciting. the second half / book 
[*] - i've read through 500 pages in less than 3 days (the last time i did this was the first time i've read LOTR), couldnt stop reading, even as it was 3:00 a.m. and i had to work the next day.

[*]I'm reading the german translatione, where every part is split into 2 books, and i'm at book 3 at the moment (A Clash Of Kings Part 1), so if anybody already read everything - spoiler me and i'll impale your head on my lance!

the whole saga is still not finished, but so far are released:

1.) A Game Of Thrones
2.) A Clash Of Kings
3.) A Clash Of Swords
4.) A Feast For Crows

the fifth part, "A Dance With Dragons", has been announced to be Sept./Oct. this year. there will then be 2 more parts follow.




what i wanted to say: fantasy fans, book readers - buy this, you wont regret it! the best thing i've read in years. highly recommended


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## arktan

*noted*


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## Sang-Drax

I finished A Feast For Crows a couple of months ago, and I'm dying to know what's coming next. The best thing is how all characters are in a somewhat gray area - everyone is a little bit of a hero and a little bit of a villain. My favorite book ever so far 

Curious fact: while I was reading that book, I dreamed of it EVERY FREAKING DAY.


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## st2012

One of my favorite series of fantasy books. Can't wait for the next one. I didn't know that they had finally announced the date for it though, thanks for the info.


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## Sang-Drax

st2012 said:


> One of my favorite series of fantasy books. Can't wait for the next one. I didn't know that they had finally announced the date for it though, thanks for the info.



Well, it's not the first time a date is announced. Let's hope GRRM doesn't postpone it again...


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## petereanima

Sang-Drax said:


> The best thing is how all characters are in a somewhat gray area - everyone is a little bit of a hero and a little bit of a villain.



exactly!  very good point and one of the things i really love about it. 

i still have A LOT to read fortuneately, but i'm afraid of the point when i have to wait for GRRM to release the next stuff.

by the way: HBO is making a series out of it.  not sure about my thoughts on this.


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## Sang-Drax

petereanima said:


> by the way: HBO is making a series out of it.  not sure about my thoughts on this.



Well, GRRM has been a screen writer for quite some time, and he'll write one of the episodes himself. I suppose he will be part of the rest, though, which means that some degree of fidelity should remain =)


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## petereanima

for the few that are interested: HBO greenlighted the pilot to go into production, filming starts in June, first season will be on air aprox. March/April 2011!

and: GRRM has apssed the 1300 pages count on the "Dance", end is in sight!


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## Demeyes

I read the series a few months ago. It's a really great read, easily one of my favourite series ever. The tv show could be hit or miss, I hope it cimes out right.


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## petereanima

yeah, it could be either the most epic thing in the universe, or total shit....but meanwhile i am really looking forward to it - George Martin was very deeply involved in the production of the pilot, and also will be involved for the whole series - the producers meanwhile joined the westeros-fan-community, getting hints and tips and all that - so they got an ARMADA of nerds in their back. 

i recently ordered all books again, this time in English (first read was german only), so i dont have to wait for the synchronisation of the series (which will propably be pretty bad, as always).


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## Sang-Drax

Hell yeah! I've just finished AGOT for the second time yesterday, and can't help but start ACOK all over again as well


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## petereanima

Time for a bumpage, because the HBO-series starts in April and badass trailers are badass:





And i'm currently re-reading the books - amazing how many details you miss if you are not used to the characters already. I know much much more than after the first time i read it.


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## SirMyghin

A dance with dragons has had at least 5 speculative releases before now, is this one actually real? (noticed this thread was 2009 , point in case I suppose)

While I really enjoyed the series, I have really lost touch with it reading other stuff (Malazan the fallen was much better imo, as is Dark Tower but it is still great). I am also concerned he is just going to cock off and die long before he finishes, so I don't want to read it until he is done.

The HBO series looks interesting, but I am worried they followed through on removing the supernatural portion which while wouldn't affect it for a while would definitely dull it up in the long run.


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## ShadyDavey

Now a mini-series is in the offing I'll have to go back and re-read the originals I suppose


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## The Reverend

I'll have to read the whole series before the show comes out, I guess. It seems to be a hit with you guys, and I love me some fantasy.

Also, was that FUCKING BOROMIR!? Recycling actors from notable fantasy movies may not be the best decision in the world, but fuck it, I'm sold.


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## petereanima

SirMyghin said:


> A dance with dragons has had at least 5 speculative releases before now, is this one actually real? (noticed this thread was 2009 , point in case I suppose)



Yeah, he really knwo show to fuckw ith his fans haha  Altough - you know: I prefer to wait jsut a bit more, if the result (book) is then better. I dont need a book thats 3/4 awesome, and the end is just written in a hurry to get it done. (Despite the fact that he had more than enough time already)



> While I really enjoyed the series, I have really lost touch with it reading other stuff (Malazan the fallen was much better imo, as is Dark Tower but it is still great). I am also concerned he is just going to cock off and die long before he finishes, so I don't want to read it until he is done.



I can see why - i almost got lost throught the last book, which was....uhm..."strange". I wont go in detail because of spoilers, but folks who read it know propably what i mean. Nonetheless - the new book shoul/will leave all that aside. And i currently re-read the whole series, its still as awesome as before, if not even more!



> The HBO series looks interesting, but I am worried they followed through on removing the supernatural portion which while wouldn't affect it for a while would definitely dull it up in the long run.



Hm, i dont think they are going to do that - esp. as George Martin is also heavily involved in the making of the series.



Spoiler



And we oculd already see one of the eggs in the trailer. 






The Reverend said:


> Also, was that FUCKING BOROMIR!? Recycling actors from notable fantasy movies may not be the best decision in the world, but fuck it, I'm sold.



Yep, Sean Bean play Ned Stark in the HBO series.


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## Daiephir

I bought those for my dad and I for Christmas along with the Wheel of Time series, he's so occupied reading them I don't even have time msyelf  (so I read WoT instead )


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## SirMyghin

petereanima said:


> I can see why - i almost got lost throught the last book, which was....uhm..."strange". I wont go in detail because of spoilers, but folks who read it know propably what i mean. Nonetheless - the new book shoul/will leave all that aside. And i currently re-read the whole series, its still as awesome as before, if not even more!



Exactly there were a few nuggets that won't be resolved until book 6 , which I doubt will ever be released (I doubt this one will ever be released). Oh well, finale to Erikson's Malazan is next month!  (Now if only Glen Cook would write those other 2 black company books he has been putting off due to wanting to finish contract stuff, albeit I am not sure I want to read them at all. I kind of thought he could have stopped after 7 and left it, as a lot of stuff had been revealed. If you haven't read it, it is quite good, it is kind of where Erikson and Martin draw a lot of their non hero character type. Just people.)


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## Ckackley

I've read them and totally lost interest since it's been SO freakin' long since he's put another book out. The trailers look good, but I'd rather have the next book. lol


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## sakeido

I just started on this series now.. these look like they'll be long and interesting reads. Hopefully by the time I'm caught up he'll have another book out.. I hate waiting for new installments in anything, and with books the wait can be excruciating


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## MrGignac

This looks to be one of the better HBO shows ever, The guy who plays tyrion lannister is like the john malcovich of midgets. Love all the books. 

Im so sick of hearing the new books coming out soon, then it isnt. it looks like Martin is heavily involved in the show ( he wrote shows for HBO back in the day) So if i have to wait a bit for the book so the show is better, I dont mind.

Always wished they had made a belgarad & mallorean movie instead of that harry potter shit.

though it would not at all surprise me if he died before the book was finished. like robert jordan


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## petereanima

As for the release date of the next book... i meanwhile relly could imagine that it IS ready and done, but they wait with the relase for jsut beofre the series starts...it would at least be a selling-argument.

Also i've read that they re-release all previous books like 2 weeks before the show starts..

Yes, i'm still hoping.


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## petereanima

Update - A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin's Official Website

JULY 12TH MOTHERTRUCKERS!!! 




(yes, i am STILL optimistic  )


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## Richie666

Jesus icefishing christ! I've been waiting since 2006 for this. Wow, huge news.

However, I feel like I should wait until the series is complete and start from the beginning again. It's all sort of fading by now

EDIT: Then again if it's comparable to the brilliance of A Storm of Swords, which it probably will be, I just may have to stow myself away for a week and plow through the damn thing


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## SirMyghin

Richie666 said:


> EDIT: Then again if it's comparable to the brilliance of A Storm of Swords, *which it had better be seeing as it took 5 years*, I just may have to stow myself away for a week and plow through the damn thing



FTFY

I too feel like waiting to see how quickly he gets the book after it out. I don't want another unfinished series on my shelf. I was excited to see this a few days ago though.


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## nojyeloot

Excited to see how they make the "Others". That was a wicked opener in GoT



SirMyghin said:


> Exactly there were a few nuggets that won't be resolved until book 6 , which I doubt will ever be released (I doubt this one will ever be released). Oh well, finale to Erikson's Malazan is next month!  (Now if only Glen Cook would write those other 2 black company books he has been putting off due to wanting to finish contract stuff, albeit I am not sure I want to read them at all. I kind of thought he could have stopped after 7 and left it, as a lot of stuff had been revealed. If you haven't read it, it is quite good, it is kind of where Erikson and Martin draw a lot of their non hero character type. Just people.)


 
See, I read Erikson's Garden's of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates and while they're really good books, the reader is so lost due to lack of background. You're basically dropped in this well established world of turmoil and Erikson expects you to catch on to all the nuances and intricacies as if you've already read 5 books prior to book one. Again, he's BRILLIANT, but he lost me by not giving any background explanation. 

EDIT: ALSO, 90+% of the book's cast changed completely from book 1 to 2. If thats the trend, then that just loses me further.

On the other hand, I'm a huge WoT fan (on 2nd re-read) and Sword of Truth fan.


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## Richie666

SirMyghin said:


> FTFY
> 
> I too feel like waiting to see how quickly he gets the book after it out. I don't want another unfinished series on my shelf. I was excited to see this a few days ago though.



Haha very true. It's almost painful to think he has two more books to write after this one.


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## nojyeloot

Richie666 said:


> Haha very true. It's almost painful to think he has two more books to write after this one.


 
I went through (and still am) going through that w/ Jordan. Thankfully, the final book comes out this Fall


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## SirMyghin

nojyeloot said:


> Excited to see how they make the "Others". That was a wicked opener in GoT
> 
> 
> 
> See, I read Erikson's Garden's of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates and while they're really good books, the reader is so lost due to lack of background. You're basically dropped in this well established world of turmoil and Erikson expects you to catch on to all the nuances and intricacies as if you've already read 5 books prior to book one. Again, he's BRILLIANT, but he lost me by not giving any background explanation.
> 
> EDIT: ALSO, 90+% of the book's cast changed completely from book 1 to 2. If thats the trend, then that just loses me further.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm a huge WoT fan (on 2nd re-read) and Sword of Truth fan.



I am just finishing up Esselmonts Stoneweilder (other writer, same world as Erikson) yes you are knee deep in a world, but that to me is what makes it. I like how perspective is only provided through characters and you don't really get any all knowing folks. Keeps you on your toes, knowing the ins and outs of a world beforehand is confining, and mentally separating (you can't be inside, only look in). I don't think he expects you to get it right away, but there are lots of small implication and lines that come up later. The way he ties it all together is reminscent of King in the Dark Tower. The lack of invincable heroes, ala Cook is also something I greatly prefer. 

His cast doesn't change, there are just 2-3 groups of characters overall. It tightens up throughout the series, but another gem was each book tells a single story. Something most serial authors (Martin, Jordan, even Cook in the latter Black company) are missing. They don't necessarily wrap up before they decide a book is finished, they just say done for now. You can pretty much read his in any order you want as each tells a single story (except 9/10, which go together). 

WoT I have read, until Jordan passed, and not since as I do not plan to read 3 more to finish it. I found the way Jordan writes to be tiring, too descriptive, pages and pages of fluff and little substance. Not to mention his character count spirals out of control and is difficult to keep straight. He let it get too big. SoT I haven't come into as I did not need another high fantasy series at the time (and still don't). From what I gather it borrows even more heavily than Jordan did. 

Sounds like you just more interesting in high fantasy overall, which due to its tropes tend to bore me to tears. Martin provides a similar atmosphere but slightly more down to earth, he too borrows from Cook in keeping things at the character level, and avoiding prophecy and such.


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## nojyeloot

SirMyghin said:


> I am just finishing up Esselmonts Stoneweilder (other writer, same world as Erikson) yes you are knee deep in a world, but that to me is what makes it. I like how perspective is only provided through characters and you don't really get any all knowing folks. Keeps you on your toes, knowing the ins and outs of a world beforehand is confining, and mentally separating (you can't be inside, only look in). I don't think he expects you to get it right away, but there are lots of small implication and lines that come up later. The way he ties it all together is reminscent of King in the Dark Tower. The lack of invincable heroes, ala Cook is also something I greatly prefer.
> 
> His cast doesn't change, there are just 2-3 groups of characters overall. It tightens up throughout the series, but another gem was each book tells a single story. Something most serial authors (Martin, Jordan, even Cook in the latter Black company) are missing. They don't necessarily wrap up before they decide a book is finished, they just say done for now. You can pretty much read his in any order you want as each tells a single story (except 9/10, which go together).
> 
> WoT I have read, until Jordan passed, and not since as I do not plan to read 3 more to finish it. I found the way Jordan writes to be tiring, too descriptive, pages and pages of fluff and little substance. Not to mention his character count spirals out of control and is difficult to keep straight. He let it get too big. SoT I haven't come into as I did not need another high fantasy series at the time (and still don't). From what I gather it borrows even more heavily than Jordan did.
> 
> Sounds like you just more interesting in high fantasy overall, which due to its tropes tend to bore me to tears. Martin provides a similar atmosphere but slightly more down to earth, he too borrows from Cook in keeping things at the character level, and avoiding prophecy and such.


 
Yup, pretty much summed it up. Guess I'm the type of guy that likes something defined. 

Ah, well that's cool then (2-3 character groups). Still, I need more definition and absolutes to get into it. 

Too many characters was his vice, but the story as a whole is great. Shame you won't finish it since it will be be complete this year. I can understand fatigue though.


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## SirMyghin

nojyeloot said:


> Too many characters was his vice, but the story as a whole is great. Shame you won't finish it since it will be be complete this year. I can understand fatigue though.



Books 1-3 were alright, as were 4 and 5. Then everything to 11 was kind of blah to me. It was like after he was done borrowing all his ideas I didn't find his overall story much of interest. Somewhere down the road I may finish it but I don't have much time to read as it is. I have been reading late at night this week for the first time in about a year. Typically I am burned out on reading academic papers.


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## nojyeloot

SirMyghin said:


> Books 1-3 were alright, as were 4 and 5. Then everything to 11 was kind of blah to me. It was like after he was done borrowing all his ideas I didn't find his overall story much of interest. Somewhere down the road I may finish it but I don't have much time to read as it is. I have been reading late at night this week for the first time in about a year. Typically I am burned out on reading academic papers.


 
To each his own I guess b/c I also LOVED books 5 & 6

Can't agree with you regarding borrowing all his ideas. What are you referring to?


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## SirMyghin

nojyeloot said:


> To each his own I guess b/c I also LOVED books 5 & 6
> 
> Can't agree with you regarding borrowing all his ideas. What are you referring to?



Book 1 = fellowship of the ring, trying to get somewhere while hiding the object (object being Rand in this case)

Book 2 - generic adventure fantasy

Book 3 - King arthur, sword in the stone 

Aiel = fremen of dune, but with spears not knives.

Dark lord in his own far away land/prison w/ X number of powerful followers is highly reminiscent of Sauron and the Nazgul.

Dream worlds like his exist even in very early fantasy (can't recall a name right now). 

That is just off the top of my head. I am not saying he did not employ them well, I felt when it was time to break out on his own, he lost his umph. Kind of like how Martins early work seems to be a bit similar to English history and their respective warring.


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## -42-

Yes. Now Martin had best not pull a Robert Jordan on us.


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## sakeido

sakeido said:


> I just started on this series now.. these look like they'll be long and interesting reads. Hopefully by the time I'm caught up he'll have another book out.. I hate waiting for new installments in anything, and with books the wait can be excruciating



Read the first two while I was on holidays.. crushed all 1800(?) pages in about five days. Good books, but I won't be finishing the series.


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## Richie666

Give the third a try. I'd say it's by far the best... but yeah the whole waiting thing...

I'm still torn on whether I should read this one or not. To wait? Or to see how incredibly badass Jon and Daenerys' stories become?


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## SirMyghin

-42- said:


> Yes. Now Martin had best not pull a Robert Jordan on us.



The difference is Jordan didn't waste 5+ years not writing one book. He was going steady every 2 years pretty much. Then unfortunately got very ill very quickly.


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## petereanima

Richie666 said:


> Jesus icefishing christ! I've been waiting since 2006 for this. Wow, huge news.



It still feels "unreal" hahaha...



> However, I feel like I should wait until the series is complete and start from the beginning again. It's all sort of fading by now



yeah, i'm totally with you there...but i cant wait another 10 years or something until its complete - so instead, i will make a full reread every time a new book is released.


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## Nonapod

I'm just hoping he still makes the damn July 12 deadline. He keeps posting stuff about the HBO series on his blog and only occasionally mentioning that he finished a chapter or something. Unfortunately at this point I wouldn't be surprised if that date slipped to September... or October... or November... or even next year. He's been almost done for so long I've become very jaded.


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## klami

I have read "Game of Thrones" and "Clash of Kings", and I really liked them! 

I just watched the first episode and thought it was a good adaption! Excited to see how the other episodes turn out! Anyone else seen it?


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## MrGignac

klami said:


> I have read "Game of Thrones" and "Clash of Kings", and I really liked them!
> 
> I just watched the first episode and thought it was a good adaption! Excited to see how the other episodes turn out! Anyone else seen it?


 

i thought it was well done, evidentally its the most expensive TV show ever made. tyrion in the bed full of whores was funny. most of the show dialouge was straight out of the book.


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## klami

I thought it was well made as well. I like how close it is to the book (or what I remember from it anyway..), hopefully the show will stay that way! 
Also, I heard HBO has given green light for season two


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## Xaios

Okay, I finally started reading A Game Of Thrones.

And I must say, so far I quite enjoy it. While there doesn't seem to be much in the way of clever turns of phrase or use of language, the pacing is incredibly well done. I only have one complaint...

What the hell is with the fascination that authors seem to have with deviant forms of sex? I know it adds "intrigue," but come on, does everyone have to be fucking a distant relative that turns out to be themselves? Seriously, in the first hundred pages, there's two scenes involving incest and one involving pedophilia. I swear, they're as bad as the Japanese.


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## SirMyghin

Yeah Martin is a bit of a pervert, I just attribute it to Dirty Old Man Syndrome and move on.


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## Sudzmorphus

Anybody watching the HBO show? I havnt read the books yet but the show is awsome.


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## Psychobuddy

Yupp watching the show, and reading the books. Really enjoying the show so far, they are staying extremely close to the actual story which is really nice. Plus it's already been picked up for a second season.


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## Daiephir

Psychobuddy said:


> Yupp watching the show, and reading the books. Really enjoying the show so far, they are staying extremely close to the actual story which is really nice. Plus it's already been picked up for a second season.



So true, and Ice looks wicked awesome, also, we were talking about it before the show started (my dad and I) and we were all like, ''wanna bet that valyrian steel is actually badass damascus''


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## -42-

Xaios said:


> What the hell is with the fascination that authors seem to have with deviant forms of sex? I know it adds "intrigue," but come on, does everyone have to be fucking a distant relative that turns out to be themselves? Seriously, in the first hundred pages, there's two scenes involving incest and one involving pedophilia. I swear, they're as bad as the Japanese.



The sex is pretty prevalent throughout his works, I think he likes the shock value. Still not as bad as say, Chuck Palahnuik.

Also, Martin has a Dance With Dragons clock sitting on his site, counting down. That thing is going to drive me insane.


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## Psychobuddy

Daiephir said:


> So true, and Ice looks wicked awesome, also, we were talking about it before the show started (my dad and I) and we were all like, ''wanna bet that valyrian steel is actually badass damascus''



Yeah Ice was really cool...I don't like the look of the dragons eggs though, the scales are to big. Oh but I do really like Syrio...

Massive nerd.


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## sakeido

yeah I had pictured the eggs looking more like they were made out of crazy look marble.. the ones in the show look kinda cheap to me and don't have enough colors on them. Ice is ridiculously huge, that thing has gotta be 5" across haahah


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## Psychobuddy

^ I had the same thought, in the book it said very tiny scales so I imagined them all sort of blending together to create a cool effect...but alas to each his own I guess.


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## SirMyghin

-42- said:


> The sex is pretty prevalent throughout his works, I think he likes the shock value. Still not as bad as say, Chuck Palahnuik.



Or Gary Jennings


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## MrGignac

i dont care if its even a flashback but id love to see the battle of the trident, with young robert baratheon swinging his giant fucking warhammer. The mad kind burning everything. I cant complain though, def the best show on TV......ever. I was absolutely impressed with the child actors in the series as well. aria, joffrey, bran. well done.


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## Daiephir

MrGignac said:


> i dont care if its even a flashback but id love to see the battle of the trident, with young robert baratheon swinging his giant fucking warhammer. The mad kind burning everything. I cant complain though, def the best show on TV......ever. I was absolutely impressed with the child actors in the series as well. aria, joffrey, bran. well done.



Pfft! The Trident is lame, I want to see Aegon's Conquest!


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## MrGignac

Daiephir said:


> Pfft! The Trident is lame, I want to see Aegon's Conquest!


 
yes! thats what i was thinking of! riding battle dragons and forging the iron throne. dance of dragons should kick major ass!


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## -42-

Was I the only one who noticed the character with the last name Sevenstrings?


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## petereanima

-42- said:


> Was I the only one who noticed the character with the last name Sevenstrings?



No, of course not, it made me smile everytime i read it.


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## Zeff

I've read the first two books and I'm really enjoying the HBO series. I think they've been doing a good job with the important parts.


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## gunshow86de

Holy crap the HBO-series is amazing.

I love it so much, that I ordered all 4 books last night. For anyone who's interested, Amazon is running a good deal to promote the show. $20 for all 4 books ain't too shabby.

Amazon.com: George R. R. Martin&#39;s A Game of Thrones 4-Book Boxed Set: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, and A Feast for Crows (A Song of Ice and Fire) (9780345529053): George R.R. Martin: Books


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## klami

-42- said:


> Was I the only one who noticed the character with the last name Sevenstrings?



Haha, just read this and got introduced to him in the book shortly after! 

I´m really happy with how the first season came out (though I havent seen the last episode), and hope they keep it up in the second season.


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## petereanima

Finally could start to watch the series - been through the first 4 episodes so far, and imho they've done a great job. Not enough direwolves, and I'm missing a few details - but thats just the normal things one has to live with book-to-TV-adaptions...

I hope they keep the quality on that level for the rest of the season (final episode aired last night i think?), and hopefully they get a bit more budget for S2, for which the filming starts in july..


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## gunshow86de

^

Last night's episode was awesome. Waiting until next Spring for season 2 will be difficult.

SPOILER ALERT:


Spoiler



Somebody woke the dragon.



I'm just about done with the first book too. Really well done, there were a few inconsistencies with the book, but, overall, the series is a good adaptation. Also, watching the series before reading the book forces me to read the book in the voices from the show (especially Tyrion).


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## -42-

Hopefully the Malazan Book of the Fallen can keep me until Dance with Dragons.


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## petereanima

-42- said:


> Hopefully the Malazan Book of the Fallen can keep me until Dance with Dragons.



Its only 3 more weeks, so I think we will all make it through the remaining waiting time.


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## The Grief Hole

WTF!1. I thought dances with dragons was out already! Another 3 weeks. How am I going to survive? 

Spoiler!!!!!

I have to find out what happens to Cersei!! Hopefully nothing good.


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## petereanima

July 12th is release-date!

Also, you can use spoiler tags:



Code:


[ spoiler ]
texttexttext
[/ spoiler ]


but without the blanks after/before the brackets of course.

shows your text then like:



Spoiler



example




And yes, i wonder (and hope) that too.


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## Xaios

PvP Online ran a great set of strips last week. Of course, these are funnier if you're a fan of PvP, but still, great.


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## Xaios

So, finished A Clash Of Kings a few days ago, started reading A Sword Of Storms. I love this series thus far, although I've heard A Feast For Crows is a bit of a let down compared to the three books before it. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

Also, there's been one early review of A Dance With Dragons published, although it's very brief. It IS positive, however, but also a bit spoilerific. Apparently the book starts to answer some questions about...



Spoiler



Jon Snow's true parentage. Personally, I think he's actually Rhaegar Targaryen's son Aegon, born from Lyanna Stark. Some theories posit however that Samwell Tarly is actually Aegon, which also makes sense in a few ways. Some also say that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, but is not the same boy as Aegon. Conspiracies about.


----------



## Daiephir

Xaios said:


> So, finished A Clash Of Kings a few days ago, started reading A Sword Of Storms. I love this series thus far, although I've heard A Feast For Crows is a bit of a let down compared to the three books before it. Anyone care to weigh in on that?
> 
> Also, there's been one early review of A Dance With Dragons published, although it's very brief. It IS positive, however, but also a bit spoilerific. Apparently the book starts to answer some questions about...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Jon Snow's true parentage. Personally, I think he's actually Rhaegar Targaryen's son Aegon, born from Lyanna Stark. Some theories posit however that Samwell Tarly is actually Aegon, which also makes sense in a few ways. Some also say that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, but is not the same boy as Aegon. Conspiracies about.



It's not really a let down, it's just not as good as the other 3  seriously though, I didn't see what the fuss is about on the fourth one, it's still the same series...


----------



## petereanima

Daiephir said:


> It's not really a let down, it's just not as good as the other 3  seriously though, I didn't see what the fuss is about on the fourth one, it's still the same series...



Its just a bit hard to get through - shitloads of new characters/POVs, a lot of new plotlines, and actually most people just wanted to know whats up with the previous POVs. Because lets face it - A Storm Of Swords is just BADASS and leaves you with an epic "WTF?!?!!?"...


----------



## Xaios

Just finished A Storm of Swords last night, and holy hell, it was awesome! It's no wonder people would view A Feast For Crows as a letdown (I'll be starting to read it tonight), what could possibly match that??

Martin's pacing has just proven unbeatable thus far, and he has a real penchant for making you go either "FUCK YEAH!" or "FUCK NO!" in ways that never come off as seeming contrived. I can't wait to be through A Feast For Crows and starting on A Dance With Dragons. And just in case I read through it too fast (I finished The Wise Man's Fear in three days), I picked up "The Way of Kings" by Brandon Sanderson to tide me over, as I've heard excellent things about it.


----------



## gunshow86de

Just finished Clash of Kings, starting Storm of Swords tonight. I'm hooked on this series. Everyone keep them spoiler tags up; I can't keep pace with Xaios. But south of the wall we have other things to occupy our time.


----------



## petereanima

Xaios said:


> Just finished A Storm of Swords last night, and holy hell, it was awesome! It's no wonder people would view A Feast For Crows as a letdown (I'll be starting to read it tonight), what could possibly match that??
> 
> Martin's pacing has just proven unbeatable thus far, and he has a real penchant for making you go either "FUCK YEAH!" or "FUCK NO!" in ways that never come off as seeming contrived
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing, isnt it?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The "red wedding"
> 
> 
> 
> was probably the most extreme "OH! MY! FUCKING! GOD!" moment I ever had reading a book. When I read that first, it was like 1:00 a.m. and I couldnt sleep, telling myself "I'll read another chapter, maybe that helps..." - good fucking god did it NOT help, I almost jumped out of the bed when I finished that chapter....and read further until 4:00 am...
Click to expand...


----------



## Xaios

petereanima said:


> Amazing, isnt it?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The "red wedding"
> 
> 
> 
> was probably the most extreme "OH! MY! FUCKING! GOD!" moment I ever had reading a book. When I read that first, it was like 1:00 a.m. and I couldnt sleep, telling myself "I'll read another chapter, maybe that helps..." - good fucking god did it NOT help, I almost jumped out of the bed when I finished that chapter....and read further until 4:00 am...



Aye, that part was nuts. There's only one scene from any book I've read (a relatively short list, granted) that had a more visceral impact on me:



Spoiler



In "The Wise Man's Fear" by Patrick Rothfuss, the protagonist has been charged with leading a small band of soldiers and scouts to find and deal with a group of highwaymen of unknown size, somewhere in the middle of a great forest. They locate the group, only to discover it's practically a garrison of people in a closed off compound. They move in under the cover of darkness during a thunder storm and kill one of the patrols. In order to take out most of the other highwaymen, the protagonist begins to magically "bind" the corpse of the patrol to the live bodies of the other enemies still in the compound, and then begins to stab the corpse wildly, which in effect also kills whoever the corpse is bound to at the time. All the while the people he is leading, who are highly distrustful of magic users, are loosing arrows at the compound while simultaneously watching him use his "dark powers" to kill from a distance, basically saying "God help us" as they look on.



I don't really do it justice describing it, but trust me, if you ever read it, it's a REALLY harrowing scene, the kind where your eyes get big and your heart starts pounding and you even start to breath heavy.

Also: Man Throws Cousin Through Window Debating Game of Thrones - The Hollywood Reporter


----------



## Bekanor

I've just started watching the series, Sean Bean is fucking awesome. 


Straight away I want to see the Lannisters get cut in half. Fuck them and their incest, Starks FTW!


Also I want a pet direwolf, they look like the best poopeh dogs ever!


----------



## gunshow86de

Bekanor said:


> Also I want a pet direwolf, they look like the best poopeh dogs ever!









Too bad you're in Australia, my friend's wolf-hybrid just had a litter of puppies. 
They are super cute.


----------



## Xaios

I figure enough time has passed since this episode aired that I can post this. This dude is PISSED!!


----------



## Bekanor

gunshow86de said:


> Too bad you're in Australia, my friend's wolf-hybrid just had a litter of puppies.
> They are super cute.



Eeeeeeee! So huggable I just want to die!


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> I figure enough time has passed since this episode aired that I can post this. This dude is PISSED!!




He mad. Someone please tell him the books were written _before_ the TV series.


----------



## The Grief Hole

Xaios said:


> I figure enough time has passed since this episode aired that I can post this. This dude is PISSED!!





That is the beauty and hook of the books. Haha. I'm still hooked and waiting like a junkie for book 4.


----------



## gunshow86de

Bekanor said:


> Eeeeeeee! So huggable I just want to die!



Nymeria might be the cutest. I love when puppies have one ear "half-cocked."


----------



## Xaios

The Grief Hole said:


> That is the beauty and hook of the books. Haha. I'm still hooked and waiting like a junkie for book 4.





There are already four books:
- A Game of Thrones (1996)
- A Clash of Kings (1998)
- A Storm of Swords (2000)
- A Feast for Crows (2005)

A Dance With Dragons is the fifth book.


----------



## Andromalia

Yup, but depending on editions the actual number varies.
-The english edition I have has cut a storrm of swords in two, but clearly states Vol1 and vol2.
-Some translated languages have cut the volumes in order to milk the customers, french AFAIK has been cut overall in...twelve pocket books ? So it makes sense some people are confused about numbers.


----------



## Xaios

Andromalia said:


> Yup, but depending on editions the actual number varies.
> -The english edition I have has cut a storrm of swords in two, but clearly states Vol1 and vol2.
> -Some translated languages have cut the volumes in order to milk the customers, french AFAIK has been cut overall in...twelve pocket books ? So it makes sense some people are confused about numbers.



Hmm, didn't realize it.

I've been googling for reviews for the past couple weeks, and it appears the review embargo was finally lifted yesterday.

The overall consensus so far?

It's awesome. "A Storm Of Swords" awesome.

Oh GOD, am I ever looking forward to it. Gotta finish A Feast For Crows as fast as I possibly can!


----------



## petereanima

Yeah, I've read the german version before the original - which is 8 books up to now (every english book is splitted into 2 germanbooks). And I've read also that this variies between coutnries - french seems to have the heaviest book-count haha..

Guys, I cant hardly wait anymore...I mean, I've waited already long enough, but daaaaaaamn is it killing me at the moment...


----------



## Black_Sheep

I recently finished season one of HBO's Game Of Thrones, and it was great. I totally loved it. 

So i ordered all the 4 books there is, and im about to read them soon. I have very high expectations towards them.


----------



## Xaios

Black_Sheep said:


> I recently finished season one of HBO's Game Of Thrones, and it was great. I totally loved it.
> 
> So i ordered all the 4 books there is, and im about to read them soon. I have very high expectations towards them.



Have no fear, they deliver.


----------



## Daiephir

petereanima said:


> Yeah, I've read the german version before the original - which is 8 books up to now (every english book is splitted into 2 germanbooks). And I've read also that this variies between coutnries - french seems to have the heaviest book-count haha..
> 
> Guys, I cant hardly wait anymore...I mean, I've waited already long enough, but daaaaaaamn is it killing me at the moment...



Ya for some odd reason, french people don't seem to mind getting milked  example: I've read the Wheel of Time (which has 13 books in english out) and the french version had 19/20 out prior to the 12th english volume XD


----------



## Bekanor

gunshow86de said:


> Nymeria might be the cutest. I love when puppies have one ear "half-cocked."



!!!!!!


----------



## Black_Sheep

Started reading "A Game of Thrones" ..the first book, today. So far it's good, but i can't really say anything yet. I'll post my opinion later, when i've read it further.


----------



## Bekanor

Just finished the last episode of season one.


Woooooooooooow!!!!!


Can't wait for season 2.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Black_Sheep said:


> Started reading "A Game of Thrones" ..the first book, today. So far it's good, but i can't really say anything yet. I'll post my opinion later, when i've read it further.



...And it's awesome. Once i start reading it, it's hard to put it back down. I started yesterday and im almost halfway through.


----------



## Animus

A Dance With Dragons, the 5th book in the series, was finally released today!


----------



## Animus

Xaios said:


> I figure enough time has passed since this episode aired that I can post this. This dude is PISSED!!





Hilarious!


***** SPOILERS ******







"They fucking killed Ned!"

"Someone has to be held accountable."

lol


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## Xaios

Picked up my copy of ADWD today. 

Haven't finished A Feast of Crows yet as I haven't had as much time to read as of late, but it's nice knowing that, once I am done, it will be there for me.


----------



## petereanima

Amazon shipped mine yesterday, should arrive today. tomorrow latest.

I still want to finish my reread before starting it, so I'm again "up to date"..its been 2 years since I've read it...I'm in the middle of Storm Of Swords at the moment, and have no fucking time...I think I need holidays.


----------



## Bekanor

You said it bro.




What "it" is I have no idea and I suspect I never will.


----------



## gunshow86de

I have around 50 pages left in Storm of Swords (for my lunch break today). I've enjoyed every word.


----------



## Animus

I just finally got on the Kindle train and ordered one. So I will be reading the whole series on Kindle (halfway through GOT now on my iphone).


----------



## Black_Sheep

Black_Sheep said:


> ...And it's awesome. Once i start reading it, it's hard to put it back down. I started yesterday and im almost halfway through.



And now im almost done. Can't wait to start Clash Of The Kings!  

Im gonna go see my gf next week, and it means a 3,5-hour train trip for me. It USED to be boring, but now...


----------



## petereanima




----------



## Bekanor

I really want to buy the books to find out what happens but I only read on the can these days and I have a feeling I would get so into the books that I'd end up with deep vein thrombosis.


----------



## chronocide

So it's taken 403 pages into A Storm Of Swords. But Daenerys has gotten interesting at last. I wont be willing her chapters to end anymore. Huzzah!

I've been thoroughly enjoying the books as whole, though. It's a bit like a story as compelling as Lord Of The Rings, but without a rotten author*.



*To clarify, I absolute love the story of The Lord Of The Rings, and the world it's set in, and the associated histories. All of it. I just think Tolkien didn't write literature at all well, he's often extremely like reading dry academia to me.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Finished with the first one. Gonna start with A Clash of Kings later today probably. Can't wait!  


@chronocide: Remember that LOTR was originally released a loooong time ago (54-55) and i believe that plays a big part in what you just said about Tolkien as a writer. And i agree with you.


----------



## -42-

I finished aDwD a few days ago. The Dany chapters were excruciating at times, but Victarion Greyjoy is now the biggest badass ever, except for Wyman Manderly that is.



Spoiler



Frey Pies


----------



## gunshow86de

I know I posted a separate thread about this, but yesterday's was so good I'll post it here too.

Arrested Westeros


----------



## gunshow86de

Stannis and Melisandre have been cast for the second season, and I have never heard of either of them. 

&#8216;Thrones&#8217; Casts Two Big Roles








oh and here's Stannis;


----------



## -42-

Pretty much the best thing ever:


----------



## gunshow86de

Oh lord => Game of Lebowskis


----------



## Black_Sheep

So i started "A Clash Of Kings" few days ago, and im already almost halfway through. It's been awesome so far! Im very glad that i have 3 books left after this one!


----------



## gunshow86de

Started Dance of Dragons last night. Yea, Tyrion and Bran are back!! I'm not sure why I like the cripple and the dwarf's characters the best, but I do.


----------



## Black_Sheep

^ My favorite characters as well. Along with Jon Snow.


----------



## Daiephir

Personal favorites are Jon Snow (and to an extent I do like Lord Snow also) and Daenerys, Tyrion, I loved the Bronn caracter


----------



## gunshow86de

^

I also like Hodor.

"Hodor!" said Hodor. "Hodor, hodor, hodor." "Hodor?"


----------



## Daiephir

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> I also like Hodor.
> 
> "Hodor!" said Hodor. "Hodor, hodor, hodor." "Hodor?"



[Thunderstorm] HODOR!


----------



## petereanima

they see me rollin...


----------



## Devotion

Soooo, I bougth aDwD yesterday, without having read the other ones first, but it was the only one in English in hard cover that they had  (and yes, I'm 16 and speak Dutch, but like to read English more, translations just screw things up).

I'm at page 50, and damn, Tyrion is one cool dude, love it how much character he has.


----------



## Black_Sheep

^ You should definetly read the other ones first! 

And i agree about translations. I prefer to read a book in the language it was originally written, if i can understand it of course  ..But most books are just in english, so


----------



## signalgrey

just bought 'em. Looking forward to reading this weekend.


----------



## Daiephir

Devotion said:


> Soooo, I bougth aDwD yesterday, without having read the other ones first, but it was the only one in English in hard cover that they had  (and yes, I'm 16 and speak Dutch, but like to read English more, translations just screw things up).
> 
> I'm at page 50, and damn, Tyrion is one cool dude, love it how much character he has.



That's something I never understood, how can one decided it's a good idea to start a series in the middle of it. You dont know the begining and why everything is at the point it is right now


----------



## Devotion

Daiephir said:


> That's something I never understood, how can one decided it's a good idea to start a series in the middle of it. You dont know the begining and why everything is at the point it is right now



If they had the first one in hard-cover in English, I would have taken that one.

And it's fun to puzzle the story together, also I don't like cheesy intro's, so starting in the middle is more interesting 

@ Black Sheep,

yea, but no hard-covers + the fact that 23/book, that x4, makes for a very broke teenager


----------



## Daiephir

Devotion said:


> If they had the first one in hard-cover in English, I would have taken that one.
> 
> And it's fun to puzzle the story together, also I don't like cheesy intro's, so starting in the middle is more interesting
> 
> @ Black Sheep,
> 
> yea, but no hard-covers + the fact that 23&#8364;/book, that x4, makes for a very broke teenager



I hope you do know that for 23 euros, you can have all 4 first books in paperback


----------



## Devotion

Daiephir said:


> I hope you do know that for 23 euros, you can have all 4 first books in paperback



Hardcover rules the world  paperback is for wussies


----------



## gunshow86de

^

And leather-bound trumps them all.


----------



## SirMyghin

Devotion said:


> Hardcover rules the world  paperback is for wussies



You take what you can get generally, older hardcovers likely need to be orderred in special for you as they don't bother stocking them. Hardcover are easier to handle, have bigger print and don't make your hands into claws however. I like Trade paperback personally.


----------



## Devotion

SirMyghin said:


> You take what you can get generally, older hardcovers likely need to be orderred in special for you as they don't bother stocking them. Hardcover are easier to handle, have bigger print and don't make your hands into claws however. I like Trade paperback personally.



I don't mind ordering, did the same with the hitchhikers guide to galaxy bundle  I'm the kind of person that reads them at home, so I don't need the advantages of pocket-sizes etc., I like being able to put them on the shelf and admire a good looking hardcover 

But back to the song of ice and fire


----------



## Daiephir

Devotion said:


> Hardcover rules the world  paperback is for wussies



So stop complaining about being broke then


----------



## Devotion

Daiephir said:


> So stop complaining about being broke then



I was just defending myself against the ones who told me that i needed to buy the previous ones first 

enuff now


----------



## Black_Sheep

I bought the first 4 books, as a neat little box set kinda thing, (yes, paperback) and they're really nice. Good quality as well. And i paid only 25&#8364; 

But yes, i will byu Dance Of Dragons as a hardcover. And it will cost as much as all the 4 books in the box.


----------



## -42-

The contents of a book are infinitely more important than its cover.

Jus' sayin'


----------



## Black_Sheep

^ True. But also, hardcovers are likely to last longer. Just saying.  

Anyway, this is a pointless argument.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Hardcovers are harder to read on the toilet. Paperback wins for can-readability.


----------



## Black_Sheep

^ They're also easier to take with you if you travel somewhere.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Almost done with "Clash Of Kings" ...And it's been awesome. I've loved every word. I have the last 150 pages left. I believe i'll finish it tomorrow, and start with "Storm of Swords" soon...


----------



## Black_Sheep

Reading Storm Of Swords right now. And it's awesome. These books are some of the best fantasy i've ever read. Im extremely happy that i still have (after SoS) two left


----------



## chronocide

Just finished A Storm Of Swords. The revelation at the end.

Oaft!


----------



## Watty

Devotion said:


> Soooo, I bougth aDwD yesterday, without having read the other ones first.


 
You are going to be sooooooooooooooooooo lost. Plus, the way Martin kills off main characters, you'll have missed getting to know heaps of important folks.


----------



## Watty

Black_Sheep said:


> Reading Storm Of Swords right now. And it's awesome. These books are some of the best fantasy i've ever read. Im extremely happy that i still have (after SoS) two left


 
Make that four; there will be a total of 7 books at this point. Though if Martin takes as long to write the last two as he did this one....


----------



## gunshow86de

watsonb2 said:


> Make that four; there will be a total of 7 books at this point. Though if Martin takes as long to write the last two as he did this one....



He's only 62 (though he looks _much_ older), so I think he's got plenty of time to finish the series properly. 

I sort of think that aDwD was intentionally delayed until after the first season of the HBO series wrapped. Wait until it's popularity soars, then only release it in hardback so you can charge $15 more (bastards ).


----------



## Watty

gunshow86de said:


> He's only 62 (though he looks _much_ older), so I think he's got plenty of time to finish the series properly.
> 
> I sort of think that aDwD was intentionally delayed until after the first season of the HBO series wrapped. Wait until it's popularity soars, then only release it in hardback so you can charge $15 more (bastards ).


 
Well, not that GRRM is sick or anything (that my limited scope is aware of), but RJ died fairly early in life; hopefully we don't lose another fiction "mogul" like that...I don't think there's anyone that could step into Martin's shoes to finish the series, no matter how many notes he left. (My comment was more of a joke about how long we'd have to wait for the next few, not an implication he'd perish before finishing...)

I'd tend to agree with you, but I thought it was supposed to be done and released over three years ago. Seems a long time to wait just to bolster sales, especially if the book was done early; means they had that money maker just sitting there...NOT earning the publisher/GRRM anything...


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, A Dance With Dragons was supposed to be released less than a year after A Feast For Crows. GRRM's personal letter in the back of A Feast For Crows says so. Unfortunately GRRM wasn't particularly satisfied with his original manuscripts so he scrapped them and started fresh, which is why it took so much longer.

Judging by the reviews, it sounds like he made the right call.

I haven't had nearly as much time to read lately, so I still haven't been able to finish A Feast For Crows, despite having purchased A Dance With Dragons on release day.

So far, though, I can't to understand people's complaints about A Feast For Crows. Sure, it sprawls a bit and there's not nearly as much action, but it's the characters that really make these books great, and A Feast For Crows really gives insight into the minds of many characters. Even reading about Cersei's machinations from her own perspective has proven quite interesting.


----------



## Bekanor

I'm so preordering one of these.

Robert&#8217;s Warhammer Prototype Pictures » Valyrian Steel - Swords from George R.R. Martin&#8217;s &#8220;A Song of Ice and Fire&#8221;

Ours is the fury.


----------



## AxeHappy

My girlfriend got my the first 4 books for our 1 year anniversary. 

I'm about half way through Storm of Swords. They just keep getting better and better.


----------



## gunshow86de

Bekanor said:


> I'm so preordering one of these.
> 
> Roberts Warhammer Prototype Pictures » Valyrian Steel - Swords from George R.R. Martins A Song of Ice and Fire
> 
> Ours is the fury.



Why did you have to show me this website exists? I want Ice so bad. Could I really justify $270 for a sword? 

Side note; Valyrian Steel would be an sick band name.


----------



## Daiephir

gunshow86de said:


> Why did you have to show me this website exists? I want Ice so bad. Could I really justify $270 for a sword?
> 
> Side note; Valyrian Steel would be an sick band name.



Not worth it, the blades are made of stainless steel which is useless in swords.

EDIT: the Damascus Longclaw one would have been could because it was made out of 1060 high carbon steel, but they're not making it anymore, the idiots


----------



## gunshow86de

^

You mean they're not _real_ Valyrian steel? I feel like I've been hoodwinked!!!


----------



## Bekanor

Given that they're strictly ornamental, it probably doesn't matter that they aren't made out of weapon's grade steel. 

$270 is a pretty good price for officially licensed GOT replicas, I mean I know people who have paid way more for ornamental weapons that aren't half as cool.


----------



## Daiephir

Bekanor said:


> Given that they're strictly ornamental, it probably doesn't matter that they aren't made out of weapon's grade steel.
> 
> $270 is a pretty good price for officially licensed GOT replicas, I mean I know people who have paid way more for ornamental weapons that aren't half as cool.



The damascus one isn't an ornemental, sharpened it would have been a formidable weapon and for 600$ it was a bargain, the same type of sword in the same type of metal usually goes for 1200$ easily (Darksword Armory's Damascus Anduril springs to mind here).

Also, why buy a sword if not to use it? it's just a huge lump of metal taking wall mounted guitar places


----------



## Bekanor

Daiephir said:


> The damascus one isn't an ornemental, sharpened it would have been a formidable weapon and for 600$ it was a bargain, the same type of sword in the same type of metal usually goes for 1200$ easily (Darksword Armory's Damascus Anduril springs to mind here).
> 
> Also, why buy a sword if not to use it? it's just a huge lump of metal taking wall mounted guitar places



Because what the hell would I use a sword for other than to look cool hanging on my wall?


----------



## Daiephir

Bekanor said:


> Because what the hell would I use a sword for other than to look cool hanging on my wall?



Well, for one, sports, keeping you fit so when you hit 50 you aren't as wide as you are tall  and two, when running out of bullets in the now very soon zombie apocalypse, you can actually still survive with good steel in hand


----------



## Bekanor

Daiephir said:


> Well, for one, sports, keeping you fit so when you hit 50 you aren't as wide as you are tall  and two, when running out of bullets in the now very soon zombie apocalypse, you can actually still survive with good steel in hand



Good thing I'm buying the Baratheon hammer then, it doesn't need to be sharp to crush zombie skulls. 


Wait just a second, in what sport exactly do you use a fucking claymore? 

*LARP is not a sport*


----------



## Daiephir

Bekanor said:


> Good thing I'm buying the Baratheon hammer then, it doesn't need to be sharp to crush zombie skulls.
> 
> 
> Wait just a second, in what sport exactly do you use a fucking claymore?
> 
> *LARP is not a sport*



The hammer, cool thing, but I'm still not sure it's battle ready  (what, LARPing ain't a sport?  well then, I'd say pretty much any ancient sword technique classes, either european [generally german] or asian [generally japanese, specifically samurai sword techniques])


----------



## petereanima

So, I finally managed to finish my reread of the first 4 books (man, I cant believe how many details I had forgotten...), and can today FINALLY start with A Dance With Dragons. 

Actually, I stood up half an hour earlier today to read the first chapter already fro breakfast. 

It was reallyreally hard in the last 4 weeks, to have ADWD already at home, but I forced myself to finish the reread before I start it, because I was sure I wouldnt remember everything...And I was right. Even further: There are things you just cant catch when you read it the first time, many things make much mroe sense the second time. 8)


----------



## petereanima

Seven bloodyd hells, I've read until 4.a.m., just slept 3 hours and now sitting at work, feeling like I'm falling asleep every minute....

but I couldnt stop reading because of its awesomeness.


----------



## Sang-Drax

Daiephir said:


> Also, why buy a sword if not to use it?


----------



## gunshow86de

Finished Dance with Dragons last night. What the hell kind of ending is that? I need resolution here George. I'd better not have to wait 5 years to get it either.


----------



## SirMyghin

gunshow86de said:


> Finished Dance with Dragons last night. What the hell kind of ending is that? I need resolution here George. I'd better not have to wait 5 years to get it either.



You really aren't convincing me to bother reading this (still haven't bought a copy as I am fed up how long it took him, I am convinced he is going to die before he finishes ). I tend to abhor when authors writing serial fantasy don't bother to make each book readable on its own though. I am of the opinion it should be a series of stories that make up a story, not one big story bridging many many books and never giving good resolution. Donaldson and Erikson are 2 examples of serial fantasy that to a greater extent you can read any book alone.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

It's a very good read, to be sure. If you like the series thus far, you will definitely want to read it. Maybe if you wait a year or so, it will be better spaced between the next book. 

A lot of things do actually get resolved along with new revelations, etc... However,


Spoiler



a certain someone has yet to travel to a certain place (not that that's an important part of the story or anything).


----------



## gunshow86de

Unrelated to the new book, but I've been harboring a theory on Jon Snow's lineage. I think he is not Eddard's son, but he is a Stark. I think he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Here's my reasoning;

1. It is never revealed how or why Lyanna was dying in the Tower of Joy, I think it may have been from child birth.
2. There are references to Lyanna making Eddard promise her something on her deathbed, but it is never said what that is. I think he had to promise to take care of Jon Snow.
3. (this contains info from a Dance with Dragons, spoiler tags up)


Spoiler



It is revealed that Eddard and Ashara Dane did have an affair, but that Ashara's child was stillborn. Since Jon and Rob are the same age (and Eddard got Catelyn pregnant before leaving for war) there isn't enough time for Ashara to become pregnant again. Of course, it is possible Eddard isn't so noble and had a different affair, but I like my theory better. Makes things more interesting.  What do you guys think?


----------



## chronocide

I'm only a few hundred pages into A Feast For Crows, but I like that theory. Particularly in that it gives Jon an extremely strong claim to the throne and could see him becoming chums with Dany. Potentially a claim he could reject because of his place on the wall but might see him lending support to her claim instead. It'd open the door up for lots of drama.


----------



## chronocide

Having posted about your idea on another forum, I got directed to a couple websites, that's seemingly what most people think is the case, it's been an established theory for some time. Loads of stuff about it on the westeros.org site, as well as some arguments against.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Aww man, and here I though I was a clever boy.  

I guess that's what happens when you form "new theories" about a book series that's over a decade old.


----------



## chronocide

Indeed! It hadn't occurred to me at all, but I've been reading them a month. There's some good stuff on it though if you want to have a look. Lots of minor bits and bobs that people see as clues, some of which may well be confirmation bias but interesting all the same.


----------



## AxeHappy

petereanima said:


> Seven bloodyd hells, I've read until 4.a.m., just slept 3 hours and now sitting at work, feeling like I'm falling asleep every minute....
> 
> but I couldnt stop reading because of its awesomeness.



Yeah these books destroyed my sleeping pattern! 

I still have a book and a half to go...and then I have to get Dance with Dragons. And I have to get used to getting up stupid earlier to drive a bus again! 



I like when series read like one long book. It seems weird when there is this full conclusion and then the author writes another book to me. Everything was done...why'd you write more?


----------



## SirMyghin

gunshow86de said:


> Unrelated to the new book, but I've been harboring a theory on Jon Snow's lineage. I think he is not Eddard's son, but he is a Stark. I think he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Here's my reasoning;
> 
> 1. It is never revealed how or why Lyanna was dying in the Tower of Joy, I think it may have been from child birth.
> 2. There are references to Lyanna making Eddard promise her something on her deathbed, but it is never said what that is. I think he had to promise to take care of Jon Snow.



Hadn't thought too much about it aside from the purple eyes (which make certain claims much more possible) but has the making of a good conspiracy.


----------



## BlackMesa

Just finished Game of Thrones and bought and started A Clash of Kings today. I'm thoroughly addicted. Maybe one day I'll get to watch the show. No HBO here.


----------



## gunshow86de

Khal Drogo had a few too many cups of fermented mare's milk.


----------



## Bekanor

My Amazon order came today, shit's about to get real!


----------



## Black_Sheep

AxeHappy said:


> Yeah these books destroyed my sleeping pattern!
> /QUOTE]
> 
> +1
> 
> Im currently halfway through Storm of Swords. It's great.


----------



## petereanima

So, finally, after I had to leave the book aside for over 1 week (due to work, and recording and blabla), I FINALLY finished ADWD last night. WHAT. THE. FUCK. 



Spoiler



I cannot, and DO NOT believe Jon is dead. I say he either survives this, abdly wounded - or Melissandre brings him back (we know red priests can do this - see Dondarrion and Catelyn)..maybe even as Azor Ahai? ;-)

Also - the "he never felt the 4th knife, only the cold" line...I almost understand that more as a that he is in a shock and thats why he felt only cold...





gunshow86de said:


> Unrelated to the new book, but I've been harboring a theory on Jon Snow's lineage. I think he is not Eddard's son, but he is a Stark. I think he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son.



Aaaah, the next one in the R+L=J camp!  Yeah, I'm on also in that boat.


----------



## The Grief Hole

petereanima said:


> So, finally, after I had to leave the book aside for over 1 week (due to work, and recording and blabla), I FINALLY finished ADWD last night. WHAT. THE. FUCK.
> 
> Aaaah, the next one in the R+L=J camp!  Yeah, I'm on also in that boat.



Totally. Utterly shocking.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Almost done with A Storm of Swords. And it might just be the best one so far! ...Though i've loved them all very much.


----------



## Black_Sheep

Done with Storm of Swords. It was awesome. I might even say one of the best books ever, dunno, i really liked it  ...And the ending was quite interesting. Can't wait to start the next one!


----------



## Ckackley

Just finished ADWD last night. Holy shit....


----------



## petereanima

Ckackley said:


> Holy shit....




exactly my reaction.



Spoiler



"for the watch!"


----------



## AxeHappy

gunshow86de said:


> Finished Dance with Dragons last night. What the hell kind of ending is that? I need resolution here George. I'd better not have to wait 5 years to get it either.




Finished a couple of nights ago and fuck. If it takes him another five years to write it I might kill him just to spare the agony of having to wait five years for the next one.




Spoiler



LETS LEAVE EVERY FUCKING CHARACTER WITH A HUGE FUCKING CLIFF HANGER ENDING!!!!



Cunt.


----------



## petereanima




----------



## gunshow86de

I am excite......


----------



## Animus

Love this series. I am on Storm of Swords and it is incredible.


----------



## Kalan

Cant wait for the new season, this has gotten me into reading once again!


----------



## Sepultorture

I effing love reading a good book and even gave a gam of thrones a gander, and i can DEFINTIELY see myself readin the entire series over a few weeks time. i have a bad habit of reading things well past betime, worse than gaming too.

though i shall have to pass on the book series for now, i watched the entire GoT tv series first and fucking loved it, that Dwarf Character is by far my Favourite character. but with liking the TV show so much i don't want to jump on the novels, get to the end of the 5th one and be dissapointed with the TV show, cus there are differences between the books and the show and i know i'll slag on the shows future episodes if i read the books.

also i heard his 6th book should be out sometime this year, so not a 5 year wait this time for you guys loving the books.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

I've read the whole series, and (so far) the HBO series does not disappoint. It's one of the best movie/TV adaptations I've ever seen.


----------



## -42-

petereanima said:


> exactly my reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> "for the watch!"





Spoiler



inb4 John Snow revived


----------



## sakeido

-42- said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 John Snow revived



that's kinda what I'm wondering. 


Spoiler



does he die and come back like Beric? or does he come back crazy like Catelyn? or does he not die at all, and get super powers like Victarion?


you can never tell with those Red Priests


----------



## The Reverend

I'm really looking forward to the second season of Game of Thrones, but I'm disappointed in George R.R. Martin's seeming inability to write any sort of even mildly happy ending. Nothing sucks more than rooting for hundreds of pages only to see a favorite character die, or get captured, or some bullshit.


----------



## SirMyghin

Finally going to get around to reading A Dance with Dragons, currently re-reading a storm of sword in preparation though.


----------



## petereanima

sakeido said:


> that's kinda what I'm wondering.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> does he die and come back like Beric? or does he come back crazy like Catelyn? or does he not die at all, and get super powers like Victarion?
> 
> 
> you can never tell with those Red Priests





Spoiler



Meanwhile, I really think he is not dead at all. I mean, we all know about GRRMs passion to let characters die, but for me it seems pretty clear that John, Dany and Tyrion are THE main characters, and I am reallyreally sure we will have them until the very end.

What were the words "the last stab, he already did not feel anymore" or something like that. This can mean actually _everything_...

Ghost was near, so maybe there is this Varg-thing going on, Johns mind going over into Ghosts body. This is what I currently think happened...but that can change again haha...
Will start a reread soon.


----------



## Xaios

Spoiler



If Jon Snow is truly dead, then I don't know what I'll do. He's the guy I was rooting for the most. Sure, we'll still have Tyrion, but Jon's story was the most intriguing to me.



On another note, I picked up Season 1 of Game of Thrones on DVD. Delivers.


----------



## petereanima

@your spoiler: same here.


----------



## AxeHappy

Pretty neat interview with Martin:

FULL (EXTENDED) INTERVIEW: George R.R. Martin - YouTube


----------



## gunshow86de

I can't wait for this Sunday.


----------



## Xaios

Watched the season 2 premier on Sunday. F***in delivered. Peter Dinklage is going to be remembered for years for playing Tyrion Lannister, he was just GLORIOUS in this episode. I smell another Emmy if this keeps up, maybe even in a lead actor category. He's just magnificent in the role, the absolute embodiment of the character.

Also, Robb's direwolf, Grey Wind, got an awesome reveal as the huge predator that it is. It was nice to see the show finally give the direwolves their due, as I thought they got the short end of the stick in season 1. It was one of the best parts of an already awesome episode. I look forward to seeing more of Ghost as Jon Snow ventures out with the Halfhand.

Sure looked better than the wolves in Twilight. 

EDIT: This is the scene with Robb and Grey Wind. Alas, it's not high def and kind of a bad transfer, but you still get the gist.


----------



## petereanima

Can't wait to see it! Good to hear Greywind seems to finally be the badass he's supposed to be!

I clicked the video, but as soon as I knew the wolve would appear, I turned it off - it seemed pretty epic and I wouldnt want to see that on the tube first.


----------



## gunshow86de

Yes it was a good episode that set the stage for the rest of the season. Have the producers/directors confirmed if season 2 will cover more than just Clash of Kings?



Spoiler



Seeing Bran already having the green dreams makes me think the Reeds could make an appearance this season, meaning season 2 will go pretty deep into the series


----------



## AxeHappy

They've said they aren't going to follow the same chronology as the books do but all the same events. And seasons aren't going to be confined to specific books. 

So I think it's more like:
Some parts of Clash of Kings won't be covered and some parts of A Storm of Swords will.


----------



## Xaios

I dunno, I've heard that Season 2 will basically be A Clash of Kings. In fact, episode 9 will be dedicated to the Battle of the Blackwater, and will be written by George RR Martin himself.

I have also heard, however, that A Storm of Swords will be broken up into two seasons. Makes sense, being as how much crazy stuff happens in that book.


----------



## petereanima

^^Yep, thats the last info I also read.

Also, imho, they would do good, if they wouldnt stick to book=season latst when they reach A Feast For Crows / A Dance Of Dragons...they should do those storylines side-by-side.


----------



## gunshow86de

Awesome episode last night. Littlefinger laid down that pimp hand.  No, wait, that was seriously fucked up. 

Also;


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> Awesome episode last night. Littlefinger laid down that pimp hand.  No, wait, that was seriously fucked up.
> 
> Also;



Yeah, you definitely got to see the darker side of Littlefinger last night. 

One thing that I'm confused about is why they felt the need to rename Asha Greyjoy to Yara Greyjoy. I mean, I understand renaming Rob Arryn to Robin as there are a ridiculous number of Robs it seems in the world of Westeros, but there wasn't anyone else name Asha. 

And yeah, the whole Theon + Yara horse ride definitely recalls shades of Luke & Leia x 1000. I'm actually surprised they had the gets to do that, even after everything else in the series.


----------



## Sepultorture

Xaios said:


> Yeah, you definitely got to see the darker side of Littlefinger last night.
> 
> One thing that I'm confused about is why they felt the need to rename Asha Greyjoy to Yara Greyjoy. I mean, I understand renaming Rob Arryn to Robin as there are a ridiculous number of Robs it seems in the world of Westeros, but there wasn't anyone else name Asha.
> 
> And yeah, the whole Theon + Yara horse ride definitely recalls shades of Luke & Leia x 1000. I'm actually surprised they had the gets to do that, even after everything else in the series.



since they introduced Osha the wildling woman into the show they didn't wan to confuse people with the whole Osha/Asha name thing so they changed Asha to Yara


----------



## Xaios

I guess that makes sense, in a "people are dumb" kind of way.


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## Bekanor

I have a pretty intense boner for Melisandre. Great casting, great boobs.


----------



## gunshow86de

Bekanor said:


> I have a pretty intense boner for Melisandre. Great casting, great boobs.



Even old stick-in-the-ass Stannis couldn't take away from the sexy. He does need to work on his stamina though. 

This .gif is NSFW, for Bekanor

They sure didn't "beat around the bush." I mean, the book hinted at their relationship, but damn!

Also, no Shireen or Patchface.


----------



## Bekanor

gunshow86de said:


> Even old stick-in-the-ass Stannis couldn't take away from the sexy. He does need to work on his stamina though.
> 
> This .gif is NSFW, for Bekanor
> 
> They sure didn't "beat around the bush." I mean, the book hinted at their relationship, but damn!
> 
> Also, no Shireen or Patchface.



A woman that fine would turn any man into a two-pump chump. 

Also as NSFW as that gif is, I watched it at work anyway. Now I have a boner at work, this is awkward. Good thing I'm the systems admin here and nobody can log my web usage but me.


----------



## petereanima

gunshow86de said:


> Also, no Shireen or Patchface.



What?  I am disappointed by the new season in advance already.


----------



## Sepultorture

FUCK IT, i'm reading the damn books there's so much shit flying over my head in this thread and it's pissing me off


----------



## Xaios

To be honest, Shireen and Patchface are quite unimportant to the plot of the books.


----------



## Bekanor

I know I know, oh oh oh.

*Dances like a tard*


----------



## Xaios

Watched the third episode tonight, it delivered yet again.

When they first announced Gwendoline Christie as Brienne of Tarth, I looked up info on her. My thoughts were that she was tall enough, but not... well, ugly enough to play Brienne. Gotta hand it to them though, they did a REMARKABLE job at making her look quite homely. Between her, Yara Greyjoy and some of the other side female characters, they're actually doing a damn good job of avoiding the "all female characters must be utterly bangable" trope, even if they're only in the scene to get banged. 

And, of course, Tyrion just keeps owning people left, right and center. Love watching that man work.

One character I felt remarkable sympathy for was Theon. In the book, they make it seem like his dad says "we're taking the north" and Theon just does an about face and goes along with it. However, here they show how conflicted he is about betraying Robb. They also show him getting one up on the old man, calling him out on his hypocrisy. It was a good bit of characterization that I'm glad they added. We also got to see Aeron Greyjoy for the first time, and he looked awesome, however brief his appearance was.

They also make us empathize with Sansa and how helpless she feels in her situation. Plus, they give a nice little scene that shows that neither Princess Myrcella nor Prince Tommen are actually decent, kind children, not at all similar to the monster their brother Joffrey is.

Good episode, and they threw in some actual action at the end for good measure. Can't wait for more of that.


----------



## gunshow86de

"You know what I hate about crossbows? They take too long to reload!"


----------



## Xaios

Alright. Episode 4. Best episode of the season so far. No Jon, but we'll live anyway, because OOOOOH MAN, lots of shit happens.

The theme of this episode seemed to be very simple thing manifest in various forms: pain. This episode had an absolute CRAP-TON of pain, both physical and psychological.

Something I realized during the week that makes me really respect Jackie Gleeson's (Joffrey) ability is this:






Who'da thunk, apparently his the kid from the Narrows in Batman Begins! I didn't even recognize it! Man, the kid plays a hateable psychopath so incredibly well, he's gonna have a hard time getting other roles. The kid could be the next Gary Busey... minus all the other weird stuff. 

And wow, we get to really probe the depths of his depravity in this episode. First, he has Sansa beaten publically right in the middle of the throne room. Then, because Bronn reckons he just needs to get laid, Tyrion has a couple of Littlefinger's whores sent to Joffrey's chambers. Big mistake, as Joffrey is more interested in "watching," but not watching them pleasure each other. Remember the aforementioned theme of the episode. 

And some more stuff happened with Danny's people, they finally reached Qarth, yadda yadda. Whatever.

But, of course, the crowning moment of HOLY SHIT in the episode came at the end, when Melisandre "gives birth." If you read the books, you know what I'm talking about.


----------



## petereanima

Xaios said:


> But, of course, the crowning moment of HOLY SHIT in the episode came at the end, when Melisandre "gives birth." If you read the books, you know what I'm talking about.



Very looking forward to that scene, how they have done this.

Also, a theory:



Spoiler



If I remember correctly, in the books, it was never really written that the relationaship between Stanis + Meilssandre has also reaached a sexual level... friend of mine just stated "I always thought that what is born from Melissandre is kind of the "child" because Stannis f***s Melissandre..."

Never thought of that to be honest, but now, it kind of makes sense...


----------



## SenorDingDong

I've really been thinking about buying this series. I've never been one for swords and shields and such (okay, maybe I have--just not a lot of it) but the story line sounds fun.


----------



## Fiction

God Damn Joffrey is one ugly boy. I guess it kind of works though..



Spoiler



With the whole incest thing making his head all doopy


----------



## Xaios

One interesting departure from the book with Melisandre's "baby."



Spoiler



I didn't realize it until earlier today, but it's actually occuring at a different point chronologically than in the book. In the book, the shadow in Renly's camp is a complete mystery, and even the reader doesn't really know where it came from (Stannis and Melisandre are implied to be the perpetrators, but at that point there's no solid evidence). Davos doesn't bring Melisandre into the cave to birth a shadow figure until after Renly is dead, when they're trying to take Storm's End in order to capture Robert's bastard son, Edric Storm. THAT is when Davos learns that Melisandre's got things happenin "down below."


----------



## SirMyghin

So finally reading Dance, and finally got around to watching the first season. Not bad at all on either account. 

The one thing I found slightly odd was the homosexual relationship between Renly and Loras. More something that was thrown in for pandering, imo, as there was never really any strong suggestion of that in the literature. Otherwise the show is quite good, they chose quite well at both what to keep, and interestingly, what to add.


----------



## AxeHappy

Uhhh...there was huge suggestions about it in the book.


----------



## Xaios

AxeHappy said:


> Uhhh...there was huge suggestions about it in the book.



This. The only reason we didn't see it explicitly was because neither Renly nor Loras were POV characters.

At one point though in A Storm of Swords, Jaime says to Loras, &#8220;Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.&#8221;

Probably the single most amazing thing that GRR Martin does in the whole series is take Jaime Lannister, a character who is eminently dislikable in the first 2 books, and suddenly make him a character that you actually want to root for over the course of a single book.


----------



## Bekanor

I'm a bit disappointed in myself in so much as I've found myself actually liking Tywin Lannister in the show. I know what an asshole he is in the books but on screen he's just the helpful doctor from Alien 3.


----------



## Xaios

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. He's been portrayed pretty awesome so far. The way he looks at Arya (even though he doesn't know that it's her) and says "smart," was pure coolness.


----------



## Bekanor

Xaios said:


> Yeah, I'm in the same boat. He's been portrayed pretty awesome so far. The way he looks at Arya (even though he doesn't know that it's her) and says "smart," was pure coolness.



He definitely becomes the role with the air of boss status he exudes.


----------



## Xaios

Best line from Sunday's episode:


----------



## atimoc

"Always going on about climate change"


----------



## SirMyghin

^^ Climate change one wins.


----------



## petereanima

this is amazing.


----------



## Xaios

Pure win.


----------



## SenorDingDong

I am here to protest the hateful killings of Sean Beans everywhere








Read and be enlightened.


----------



## gunshow86de

There's a newer version of the politician one floating around the internets, with George W as Hodor.


----------



## Xaios

Another great episode last night. Not as much happened as the episode before, aside from


Spoiler



Renly being offed by the vaginal smoke monster


, but there was a lot of great interplay between the characters. Tywin, in particular, just keeps becoming harder to dislike, and I've read the books!


----------



## Sepultorture

Xaios said:


> Another great episode last night. Not as much happened as the episode before, aside from
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Renly being offed by the vaginal smoke monster
> 
> 
> , but there was a lot of great interplay between the characters. Tywin, in particular, just keeps becoming harder to dislike, and I've read the books!



yeah but he'll fuck over Tyrion anyway and make himself look like the bad guy as time goes on


----------



## Xaios

Sepultorture said:


> yeah but he'll fuck over Tyrion anyway and make himself look like the bad guy as time goes on





Spoiler



Well yeah, anyone who's read the books knows that.


What I mean is that Charles Dance is just _ridiculously_ charismatic on screen, at least the way he's portraying the character currently. You can certainly imagine where Tyrion gets his swagger seeing them on screen like that.


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> What I mean is that Charles Dance is just _ridiculously_ charismatic on screen, at least the way he's portraying the character currently. You can certainly imagine where Tyrion gets his swagger seeing them on screen like that.



I think this is intentional by the producers.


Spoiler



There isn't much background on Arya's "prayer" in the series. Without knowing who or why all those people are in her "prayer," the average viewer would be really confused why she doesn't pick Tywin Lannister. It would all but guarantee Rob's victory. Now, if Tywin treats Arya fairly, that fact might be less glaringly obvious.



Also, I made this while I was bored at work today.


----------



## Xaios

Heh, nice. And yeah, that explanation does make sense. It's been a while since I read the book, but from what I remember, that does essentially line up with what happens in it.


----------



## SirMyghin

Finally finished reading Dance, although it has been close to a year since the release. Figure why bother rushing?

A good read overall, but I really dislike Martin's penchant for leaving too much hanging at the end of each book. It is too easy, lazy even, to write serial containing only 1 long drawn out story, as opposed to chopping it in opportune places to create a series of stories that make up a greater tale. Erikson and King did much better with that in their series overall, having more logical end points to the books. Unfortunately the back half seemed to drag out a bit much, particularly the last 200 pages. The epilogue made up for that I feel though.


----------



## petereanima

gunshow86de said:


>



I don't understand this, what does this mean, does it rhyme with something or what...?




 very cool!


----------



## AxeHappy

You will understand. You will.


----------



## Xaios

Uhhhh Axe... I think he already does...


----------



## petereanima

Yeah, I do.


----------



## Duelbart

Just got myself the whole saga and I have no school for some time:







Yay!

There are so many tomes since the last three books were released in two parts by the publisher.


----------



## Sepultorture

And to think the next tow books will be 1500 pages each, maybe more, this shit is epic, i need to start reading this


----------



## gunshow86de

(I know I posted this before) A friendly reminder for all mutual GOT and Arrested Development fans - Arrested Westeros is making new posts for season 2.

Arrested Westeros


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## Xaios

I. Must. Have. That. Shirt.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Xaios said:


> One interesting departure from the book with Melisandre's "baby."
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize it until earlier today, but it's actually occuring at a different point chronologically than in the book. In the book, the shadow in Renly's camp is a complete mystery, and even the reader doesn't really know where it came from (Stannis and Melisandre are implied to be the perpetrators, but at that point there's no solid evidence). Davos doesn't bring Melisandre into the cave to birth a shadow figure until after Renly is dead, when they're trying to take Storm's End in order to capture Robert's bastard son, Edric Storm. THAT is when Davos learns that Melisandre's got things happenin "down below."



Nope, the shadow in the book was used to kill Renly in his camp in Storm's End. I'm pretty sure the chapter with Davos ends with the shadow assassin and the following chapter is from Catelyn's perspective as Renly dies. Of course only the reader knows Stannis is responsible.


----------



## Bekanor

wannabguitarist said:


> Nope, the shadow in the book was used to kill Renly in his camp in Storm's End. I'm pretty sure the chapter with Davos ends with the shadow assassin and the following chapter is from Catelyn's perspective as Renly dies. Of course only the reader knows Stannis is responsible.



No the shadow the reader "sees" born is in the bowels of Storm's End. They simply co-opted that part from the book and put it there as I'm pretty sure the Edric Storm arc isn't going to make it into the show.


----------



## gunshow86de

Ummm, what the hell was that dragon stealing business at the end of this episode? It's been a while since I read Clash of Kings, but that doesn't ring a bell. They're taking a pretty big liberty with the story line.



Spoiler



In the preview at the end, Daenerys is shouting at Jorah to "just find her dragons." I'm probably reaching, but that tone suggests she has already found him out to be a spy. He is not supposed to be outed until later, when they join up with Belwas and Artsan/Barristan Selmy. I'll be upset if they cut out both those characters. I want to see Belwas cut himself and fight dammit!



Also, Jon Snow getting some dry hump action.


----------



## Bekanor

I'm up to the epilogue of dance with dragons and I have to say this:

Really George? Really? What the fuck bro?


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> Ummm, what the hell was that dragon stealing business at the end of this episode? It's been a while since I read Clash of Kings, but that doesn't ring a bell. They're taking a pretty big liberty with the story line.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> In the preview at the end, Daenerys is shouting at Jorah to "just find her dragons." I'm probably reaching, but that tone suggests she has already found him out to be a spy. He is not supposed to be outed until later, when they join up with Belwas and Artsan/Barristan Selmy. I'll be upset if they cut out both those characters. I want to see Belwas cut himself and fight dammit!
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Jon Snow getting some dry hump action.



It didn't happen like that in the book, but I imagine they put in the bit about the dragons getting stolen as a way to move the plot forward. The motivation in the book to get her to explore the House of the Undying was pretty flimsy. This actually makes a lot more sense. They're taking more liberties in general with the second season, and they're doing a good job of it too. For example, all the Qarthian ladies having one boob showing all the time would have been mighty impractical from a costuming standpoint.



Spoiler



I don't think she suspects that he's a spy at the moment. Quite the opposite, she just realized for the first time that he's in love with her. She doesn't find out she's a spy until Barristan comes along, and only after his true identity is revealed to her. Also, Barristan Selmy is way to important to Daenerys' storyline to leave out. Strong Belwas... I don't think he'll get cut either. If nothing else, he conquers Yunkai by beating their champion in single combat, even if Yunkai later rebels again. That gives the producers a convenient, low cost way to show a major plot point without having to change it.



And yeah, the actress playing Ygritte is super cute. Gotta love redheads.


----------



## gunshow86de

I laughed at this for longer than I should have;


----------



## Xaios

^ Haha, that's great. 

Noticed a couple plot deviations from the book:

First:


Spoiler



They kill of Amory Lorch earlier in the show than they did in the book. Here he replaces the overseer of the servants as one of Jaqen's three kills. In the book, he's killed by a bear after Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions betray the Lannisters.



Second:


Spoiler



More obviously, Jon Snow actually chases down and captures Ygritte after she escapes the first time. In the book, she simply escapes and they don't see each other again until the scene where Jon kills Qhorin Halfhand.



Also noticed a difference between the book and episode 5 from the week before:


Spoiler



In the book, Jaqen H'ghar is a servant of the "Many-Faced God" that all Faceless Men serve, who is represented in several different religions throughout the world as a death God. In the show, however, he clearly serves R'hllor, "the red god." I wonder how they'll reconcile this with the religion of the Faceless Men.


----------



## st2012

Xaios said:


> ^ Haha, that's great.
> 
> Noticed a couple plot deviations from the book:
> 
> First:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> They kill of Amory Lorch earlier in the show than they did in the book. Here he replaces the overseer of the servants as one of Jaqen's three kills. In the book, he's killed by a bear after Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions betray the Lannisters.
> 
> 
> 
> Second:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> More obviously, Jon Snow actually chases down and captures Ygritte after she escapes the first time. In the book, she simply escapes and they don't see each other again until the scene where Jon kills Qhorin Halfhand.
> 
> 
> 
> Also noticed a difference between the book and episode 5 from the week before:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> In the book, Jaqen H'ghar is a servant of the "Many-Faced God" that all Faceless Men serve, who is represented in several different religions throughout the world as a death God. In the show, however, he clearly serves R'hllor, "the red god." I wonder how they'll reconcile this with the religion of the Faceless Men.



I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure


Spoiler



in the book Jaqen states that they stole 3 deaths from "the red god" so that part seems accurate.


 I'll dig my copy up sometime and make sure though, been a while since I read Clash of Kings.


----------



## gunshow86de

^



Spoiler



The Red God is one of the faces of the Many Faced God. I'll have to check, but I think the line about taking 3 lives from the Red God is lifted straight from the book.



EDIT:


Spoiler


----------



## Xaios

I'm gonna check as soon as I get home. I remember it being quite a jarring difference for me, and I read the book less than a year ago.


----------



## gunshow86de

Must.............. fill thread................ with Jon Snow .gifs...........


----------



## Xaios

Another good episode. Not a lot of action, but some great conversations. Good bottle episode. More divergences from the plot of the book:



Spoiler



They killed off Cleos Frey earlier than they did in the book. Here in the show, Jaime Lannister kills him in order to find a window of opportunity when the jailer opens the cell in an attempt to escape. The reason he ends up in the same cell as Jaime is because they didn't have any other free cells.

In the book, he gets imprisoned because a bunch of guys that accompanied him back to Robb's camp from King's Landing tried to free Jaime (a plot thread that was cut from the show). He gets sent by Catelyn back with Jaime and Brienne, and dies when his horse rolls over him.

Also, in the show, Rickard Karstark's son is killed by Jaime in the camp when he attempts to escape. In the book, two of his sons were killed by Jaime in the battle of the Whispering Wood.



EDIT: Another couple:



Spoiler



In the book, after Ygritte gets away, Jon rejoins the rest of the party with the Halfhand who are slowly picked off by wildlings until it's only Jon and the Halfhand left. At that point, Jon and the Halfhand duel in order for Jon to placate the wildlings (under Halfhand's orders), and Jon kills Halfhand. Here in the show, it appears Ygritte has lead Jon into a trap before he can rejoin the party. I'm curious how they plan to kill of the Halfhand now.

Also, the whole thing with Daenerys in Qarth has now diverged from the book a great deal all of a sudden with this coup.

And one last minor thing. In the book, Jon discovers the wildling army when he warg-bonds with Ghost who is perched atop a mountain. Ghost is then attacked by the eagle that used to be warg-bonded with one of the people that Jon and Halfhand's party ambushes. It seems they've omitted this plot thread entirely, and I don't know how I feel about that.



So yeah, the writers are getting bolder with the changes they're making to the plot in order to make it fit into the running time. While I don't agree with *everything* they've done, it's been pretty good thus far.

Oh yeah, and it made be extremely happy to hear the following line:

"You know nothing, Jon Snow."


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> Oh yeah, and it made be extremely happy to hear the following line:
> 
> "You know nothing, Jon Snow."



I must confess, I rewound my DVR because I wanted to hear the line again. 

The narrative in Qarth is starting to annoy me. It is too different from the book.

Side note, the new Mountain sucks. No wonder he doesn't have many lines this season. What happened to the season 1 Mountain? He was badss.


----------



## liamh

^


----------



## gunshow86de

liamh said:


> ^




Touché.

Still, who makes a more menacing Mountain?

Ian Whyte;





or Conan Stevens?






Come on, his freakin real name is Conan!!!


EDIT: Here's what a little Googling will get 'ya, Conan Stevens didn't come back because he landed a role in the Hobbit movies.


----------



## Sepultorture

gunshow86de said:


> Touché.
> 
> Still, who makes a more menacing Mountain?
> 
> Ian Whyte;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or Conan Stevens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, his freakin real name is Conan!!!
> 
> 
> EDIT: Here's what a little Googling will get 'ya, Conan Stevens didn't come back because he landed a role in the Hobbit movies.



so he yet may return (doubtful, but it would be awesome)

he's gotta be Beorn the bear shape shifter, that or something else big and bad

EDIT: nope i was wrong, he's a character called Bolg, i'm guessing the goblin/orc king who loses his head or some other orc


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

Someone sent this to me today.


----------



## gunshow86de

I like the "no, Jon." Couldn't they just move Rickon out of the picture? What a useless character.

*_waits for George RR Martin to turn Rickon into a total badass in the last 2 books_*


----------



## Watty

Xaios said:


> And yeah, the actress playing Ygritte is super cute. Gotta love redheads.



A-_fucking_-men. And that accent is just....:yes way:

Don't know if it's been mentioned as of yet in the thread (haven't bothered to read the entire thing), but how many people actually sub to HBO to see this? I just saw an article stating this was the most pirated show on TV this year, and was #2 last year. Seems like HBO would make a KILLING if they put this up for grabs episode by episode. I know I'd pay a few bucks per if I could get it in decent quality instead of through....other means. @theoatmeal

*is not advocating the use or perpetuation of....other means*

EDIT: *Hates it when clicking the link on forum home page takes you to a page other than the most recent in the thread...*


----------



## petereanima

Watty said:


> Don't know if it's been mentioned as of yet in the thread (haven't bothered to read the entire thing), but how many people actually sub to HBO to see this? I just saw an article stating this was the most pirated show on TV this year, and was #2 last year. Seems like HBO would make a KILLING if they put this up for grabs episode by episode. I know I'd pay a few bucks per if I could get it in decent quality instead of through....other means.



The thing is, for me for example - I even sub'd Sky, the Pay TV fuckcompany for our area - and it took them 7-8 months for the first season to get all the translations and everything done (despite that I only watch them in english original anyway), and no one I know wants to wait that long.

Now, the second season, they are bringing almost "on time" with HBO's airing, BUT, you have to buy an additional channel (Sky Atlantic it is now), I would have even done it, I called, and they told me I can't get it. Currently only available via Sattelite, not via cable.

don't get me wrong - I am a businessman, and I am used to get paid for my work, and I am used to pay others for their work. But when I say "HERE, TAKE MY MONEY!" - and they say "sorry bra"....

Thats why I finally said "Fuck you, cancel my subscription, I am going to download it."


----------



## liamh

Ygritte's a dirty slut, Jon should have killed her when he had the chance.


----------



## Xaios

Don't ever badmouth Ygritte again. 

Also, I do watch the show legitimately on HBO. The reason I started reading the books in the first place was because I didn't think I had HBO, so I read them to see what all the fuss was about.

Then I discovered I had HBO all along, just didn't know it.


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> Then I discovered I had HBO all along, just didn't know it.



It helps when your satellite dish isn't buried in 50 feet of snow.


----------



## Xaios

Hey now, we DO have digital cable here.



Even if it is transmitted via carrier pigeon...


----------



## st2012

liamh said:


> Ygritte's a dirty slut, Jon should have killed her when he had the chance.



You take that BACK!!


----------



## gunshow86de

st2012 said:


> You take that BACK!!



Don't worry, Liamh knows nothing.


----------



## liamh

I wont take it back. 
If i was Jon I wouldnt want anything to do with that nasty wildling firecrotch


----------



## xXxPriestessxXx

So having only read the first book and about 200 pages of the second, this season has been fun for me. I don't know everything like I did in the first season, so it has been nice to be suprised.


----------



## Watty

xXxPriestessxXx said:


> So having only read the first book and about 200 pages of the second, this season has been fun for me. I don't know everything like I did in the first season, so it has been nice to be suprised.



I almost think it'd be well worth to forget having read the books a few times through, just to be able to experience the series fresh. Despite a few minor deviations, I think they're staying remarkably close to the source material.


----------



## SenorDingDong

All right, is it wrong that I'm only two episodes in (I don't get much free time) and I already want to punch this fucking kid in the face?







The first episode it was just... I hate his face. Then the second, he pulled all that shit toward the end and, well, the want to punch grew. And his mom, because she's all smug and cold and whatnot.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Nothing wrong, you are supposed to hate Joffrey. I think that kid is portraying him really well.

Also, this;


----------



## Xaios

Holy crap, that picture is so awesome. 

And yeah, Joffrey is designed to be supremely hate-able. Just wait until you see episode 9.


----------



## Watty

So what did everyone think of this week's episode? Seems like the plot deviations are really beginning to pile on. I suppose there's something to be said for making it marketable for HBO, but I feel it's almost getting to the point when it takes away from the story...



Spoiler



Like with Robb's romance, I felt that the "Volantis" girl might eventually reveal being Jeyne, but it seems like that won't happen. This leaves the Westerlings out of book three, which would make the Red Wedding a bit less, well called for. Though I suppose Robb marrying a foreigner wouldn't look much better than ditching Frey's daughter for another, albeit minor Westerosi house. They could still resolve this, but seeing as how he's "already returned" from the Craig, it seems a missed plot line...

And is it just me, or is the actor that plays her way hotter than most plastic women dominating our media today? Three cheers for regular, natural...and hot as fuck, women!





Spoiler



And then they really focused on the whole Jon/Ygritte dynamic and didn't really resolve much of it this episode. I felt like with all that time spent in 7, they would have at least initiated significantly more tension between Q and J, building up to their fight in presumably the next episode. Though maybe I just wanted to see more of her anyways...


----------



## gunshow86de

Yeah, I wasn't too keen on last night's episode. I feel like they completely botched the whole fake Bran/Rickon bodies thing. Granted I already knew that it was the farmer's boys, but there was almost no suspense created around what I consider a major plot twist.

On the other hand, Bronn was his typical hilarious and insightful self. Hearing Theon called a dumb cunt was great. The banter between Tyrion and Varys was hilarious. Also, "Jeyne" was hot as hell. 

EDIT: Oh yeah, Rattleshirt was pretty kvlt looking.


----------



## Xaios

To be fair, I also thought it was the weakest episode of the season thus far. There's a lot of stuff in this episode that only makes sense when viewed through the lens of plot points that occur *much* later in the plot. Like, 2 seasons away type stuff.


----------



## Watty

Xaios said:


> To be fair, I also thought it was the weakest episode of the season thus far. There's a lot of stuff in this episode that only makes sense when viewed through the lens of plot points that occur *much* later in the plot. Like, 2 seasons away type stuff.



Yep, I completely agree. Shame too, as we only have 2 more to go until next April...


----------



## The Analyst

I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with this season so far. There are a lot of good scenes, but overall I think there is quite a bit left to be desired. With that said; I can't freaking wait for next weeks episode!


----------



## liamh

Theon's sister is my favourite woman in Game of Thrones, she's badass.
The actress who plays Lady Talisa (?) is stunningly beautiful, moreso than Emilia Clarke imo (and thats saying a huge amount)


----------



## hairychris

Hm, being up to date on the books I accidentally dropped spoilers on my workmates who are just watching the TV.

Oops. Haha.


----------



## Xaios

The Analyst said:


> I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with this season so far. There are a lot of good scenes, but overall I think there is quite a bit left to be desired. With that said; I can't freaking wait for next weeks episode!



To be completely fair, the book had the same problem, albeit in different ways. There's a LOT of people just walking around in A Clash of Kings, and I think the producers tried to make the best of it, but as a book it simply doesn't have as much action as the 1st or 3rd book.

Aside from that one big battle, of course.


----------



## The Analyst

Xaios said:


> To be completely fair, the book had the same problem, albeit in different ways. There's a LOT of people just walking around in A Clash of Kings, and I think the producers tried to make the best of it, but as a book it simply doesn't have as much action as the 1st or 3rd book.
> 
> Aside from that one big battle, of course.



Yeah, not much happens in A Clash of Kings until the end.


----------



## SenorDingDong

I am now adding this guy









and this jackass









to this list of characters I want to punch in the face. And the list just keeps on growing.


----------



## Xaios

You're going to have a very long "punch in face" list by the time you're through.


----------



## SenorDingDong

Xaios said:


> You're going to have a very long "punch in face" list by the time you're through.



I had a feeling I would


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> You're going to have a very long "punch in face" list by the time you're through.



You also might be removing a few as you get farther in the series.


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> You also might be removing a few as you get farther in the series.



Indeed.



Spoiler



No joke, Jaime Lannister actually becomes an awesome and, believe it or ot, likeable and sympathetic character from the third book on. In a way, he becomes another Tyrion, which can only be a good thing.

And while Stannis never becomes particularly likeable, he does something at the urging of Davos that gives us reason to cheer for him.


----------



## SirMyghin

Xaios said:


> To be completely fair, the book had the same problem, albeit in different ways. There's a LOT of people just walking around in *A Song of Ice and Fire*, and I think the producers tried to make the best of it, but as a book it simply doesn't have as much action as the 1st or 3rd book.



Fixed. (It seriously feels that way, esp after Feast and Dance.)


----------



## gunshow86de

Battle of the Blackwater starts in less than 1 hour!!!


----------



## Xaios

So yeah, Blackwater delivered all the epic battle goodness we could have hoped for. 

I think they even referenced Futurama in this episode. 

And, of course, more Cersei in her "Real Housewives of Westeros" mode, which is always a hoot!


----------



## gunshow86de

Seeing Tyrion knee-cap that guy was awesome. I know it happens in the book, but I wanted the Hound to wait a little longer before freaking out about the fire. There were more men for him to cut in half. Also, the kid played Joffrey perfectly. Sniveling little wimp, "did she say she had urgent business?" 

Rains of Castamere was chilling during the closing credits.


----------



## Xaios

This was, of course, the thing that happened in the episode that I believe most of us were anticipating:


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Yeah that was awesome. I was slightly disappointed by the lack of "Imp Chain."


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> Yeah that was awesome. I was slightly disappointed by the lack of "Imp Chain."



Yeah, I was wondering about that too, but it makes sense. It would have really complicated the battle scene too. You'd have to have a big river instead, and you'd have to have troops getting out of their boots on one side and crossing this weird wreckage-bridge to the other side. Too much for television. What they did here worked great in the context of TV.


----------



## petereanima

Xaios said:


> This was, of course, the thing that happened in the episode that I believe most of us were anticipating:



Hmmm, I see, the pyromancers have been, hmmmm, brewing some wildfire lately, hmmmm.


----------



## st2012




----------



## liamh

That episode was too intense, the explosion scene really sent some shivers down my spine.
Amazing episode, im watching it again.


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> Yeah, I was wondering about that too, but it makes sense. It would have really complicated the battle scene too. You'd have to have a big river instead, and you'd have to have troops getting out of their boots on one side and crossing this weird wreckage-bridge to the other side. Too much for television. What they did here worked great in the context of TV.





It also would have made a Stannis escape very unlikely, since they decided to make him "Rambo it" up the ladder without a helmet to some random battlement that had little strategic value. What the hell was up with that? 

Here's you random factoid of the day. The woman playing Jeyne/Talisa is Oona Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter.


----------



## gunshow86de

Here we go;


----------



## Xaios

Heh, Tyrion bounces up and down like he has to take a piss or something.


----------



## gunshow86de

Xaios said:


> Heh, Tyrion bounces up and down like he has to take a piss or something.



I just like that the guy is standing there (while Wildfire, arrows, and rocks are coming down) watching everyone like, "hey you guys are doing a good job at that whole siege thing." Then he gets his leg cut off by a dwarf.


----------



## petereanima

laughter is coming.
Lowgarden

(attention: partial book#3 spoilers)

the inboxes are hilarious. Jaqen @ Aryas inbox made me laugh hard.


EDIT: LOL "Aerys II [[email protected]]"


----------



## gunshow86de

petereanima said:


> laughter is coming.
> Lowgarden
> 
> (attention: partial book#3 spoilers)
> 
> the inboxes are hilarious. Jaqen @ Aryas inbox made me laugh hard.
> 
> 
> EDIT: LOL "Aerys II [[email protected]]"



I love the message from Varys; "Just sitting here, thinking about my gash."

EDIT: The Lyana one; I see what they are doing at the end there.


----------



## liamh

gunshow86de said:


> I just like that the guy is standing there (while Wildfire, arrows, and rocks are coming down) watching everyone like, "hey you guys are doing a good job at that whole siege thing." Then he gets his leg cut off by a dwarf.


His gravestone reads "Had his leg cut off by a dwarf with an axe, who then smashed him like 5 times in the face. Shit was crazy"


----------



## gunshow86de

Stumbled across this; Rory McCann auditioning for the Hound.


----------



## -42-

For the record "Pyromancer" would be an awesome band name.


----------



## sakeido

Last week's episode was pretty good but I dunno.. seeing an epic battle was cool, but I prefer the usual Game of Thrones stuff... intrigues and dialogue. It still had its moments for sure, with Varys freaking out before the invasion. Bronn had a bunch of great lines. Dunno... maybe I'm just missing Ygritte and Talisa hahaha


----------



## Watty

sakeido said:


> Last week's episode was pretty good but I dunno.. seeing an epic battle was cool, but I prefer the usual Game of Thrones stuff... intrigues and dialogue. It still had its moments for sure, with Varys freaking out before the invasion. Bronn had a bunch of great lines. Dunno... maybe I'm just missing Ygritte and Talisa hahaha



This. 

There are times when I read through the books when I was dying to hear from other characters, but this was an awfully long time to see "one" aspect...and I thought Jon/Y had a few "scenes" prior to the ending on this book, so hopefully we'll see him fighting half hand and then getting some


----------



## Amerikhastan

Pumped for the season finale tonight!


----------



## Xaios

Holy crap, that was definitely a great way to end the season!

By *FAR* the best episode for Daenerys of the entire season. I actually quite like how they presented the House of the Undying here. In the book, it was mostly a pointless riddle. Here they made it into something with real weight as far as the story goes. And I REALLY liked how they incorporated the theme of "Winter Is Coming" into Danny's storyline.

Got some more Theon pathos as well tonight, and it really worked. It really showed how little of a Greyjoy that Theon truly is at heart and that, even though he has to play the part of a Greyjoy, he is more of a Stark.

Also got to see Brienne show Jaime that, as far as fighting skills go, she's the real deal.



Spoiler



And oh man, that undead horde at the end walking towards the Fist of the First Men looked *awesome*.



This season was a bit uneven, but it definitely finished strong.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Theon's ranting about the hornblower was freaking hilarious! 

EDIT 2: Another reason that I really like how they treated the House of the Undying here. In the book, the whole thing plays out kind of like a weird drug trip, but more importantly, it basically INCLUDES SPOILERS. Now, in a book, you make the nature of those prophecies nebulous, but when you're working with a visual medium, everything becomes more literal. For example, in the first book when Arya is hiding in the basement of the Red Keep amongst the dragon skulls, you really don't know who the two people are that she's hiding from are. You get the an inkling of who it is, but it's not exactly certain. However, in the show, it's quite clearly Varys and Illyrio.

Thankfully, they opted not to show the scenes that could have given away major upcoming events.


Spoiler



*COUGHCOUGH*RED WEDDING!!!*COUGHCOUGH*


 Instead they gave the whole thing a "last temptation" feel to it, and it was very effective.


----------



## gunshow86de

I agree, it was a good way to end the season. The horn blowing scene was good comedic relief (as was seeing Theon get walloped by Dagmer after his speech). I'm glad we're finally through with Pyatt Pree, that guy was so creepy that I almost couldn't enjoy his scenes.



Spoiler



After seeing the White Walker army, how the hell are they going to film Sam killing one and make it seem realistic (well, for a fantasy story)?



Only thing bad I can really say about this episode is that it was "Bron-free."


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the White Walker army, how the hell are they going to film Sam killing one and make it seem realistic (well, for a fantasy story)?





Spoiler



I don't think it that part will be too though, as Sam kills the White Walker during the night while they're on their way to Craster's place. It was also pretty much blind luck in the book, as he managed to kill it in a distinctly un-brave way.

What I don't know is how they're going to get Sam back with the rest of the Night's Watch force in order for him to travel with them at all after the battle. At least if there's one positive, it's that they don't have to show this battle as it's not technically in the book either, so that will help with the budget.


----------



## gunshow86de

Also, any episode where Ros gets naked is a good episode. I'm so glad they invented that storyline just for the show.


----------



## Xaios

gunshow86de said:


> Also, any episode where Ros gets naked is a good episode. I'm so glad they invented that storyline just for the show.



See, my feelings on her are almost the polar opposite. As a character, her entire reason for being has been as a device to allow other characters to provide exposition. Granted sometimes it is very effective (the scene where Joffrey has her beat the other prostitute was downright chilling and certainly establishes one of his darker character traits), but they could have accomplished the same thing with a bit character. Other times, it seemed downright gratuitious, as if her only purpose was to provide something for Theon to stick his penis into. The whole thing felt extraneous. The book had enough crazy sex in it as is, it didn't really need adding to.

I do hope that her new alliance with Varys gives her something to do, because her role thus far has been "hear them talk and take their cock." To me it represents a singular glaring failure on the part of the show writers, to say that the only way they could come up with a new character that wasn't in the book was to make her a dumpster for sperm and monologues. The best moments she has in the show are when she leaves her clothes on, so hopefully that will provide some impetus for the writers to have her keep them on.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

You just explained all her best qualities.


----------



## Bekanor

Finally got around to watching the last episode tonight. 

I want a baby dragon so much, they were so cute! 


Also I really like how they did 'the others', I was wondering how they would make them a bit more imposing since I couldn't imagine them transitioning well to screen if left as described in the books. 

Still a little bit disappointed by some of the changes and flat-out confused by others but enjoying nonetheless. Can't wait to see who they cast for Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, Mance Rayder and Tormund Giantsbane.

I wonder if they'll have Bran and Rickon meet up with the Reeds on the road, kinda sucks that they're not in it, Jojen and Meera fill out so much of Bran's..."character". Unless they're planning on not touching any of that stuff either, which would really suck (the book readers know what I'm talking about, no spoilers from me).


----------



## Alex6534

God last night's episode was just, wow. I'm REALLY tempted to read the books now, I'm not sure I can wait another year to see the third season  Especially if it is going to be split into two.


----------



## Xaios

Bekanor said:


> I wonder if they'll have Bran and Rickon meet up with the Reeds on the road, kinda sucks that they're not in it, Jojen and Meera fill out so much of Bran's..."character". Unless they're planning on not touching any of that stuff either, which would really suck (the book readers know what I'm talking about, no spoilers from me).



Don't worry, they've already announced that Meera and Jojen will be in season 3. I can understand why they didn't put them in this season, because before they all leave for the north, the Reed kids don't really do much, aside from Meera providing Theon with jailbait fantasy material.


----------



## SenorDingDong

I just finished episode nine of season one (I know, way behind, but I'm pretty busy) and am disappointed that Sean Bean pulled a Sean Bean. 

That, and I have to take a break from the show for a day or two because it leaves me way too pissed off


----------



## Xaios

SenorDingDong said:


> I just finished episode nine of season one (I know, way behind, but I'm pretty busy) and am disappointed that Sean Bean pulled a Sean Bean.
> 
> That, and I have to take a break from the show for a day or two because it leaves me way too pissed off









EDIT: Just some context so you know that I'm not a ridiculous racist:


----------



## Watty

Alex6534 said:


> God last night's episode was just, wow. I'm REALLY tempted to read the books now, I'm not sure I can wait another year to see the third season  Especially if it is going to be split into two.



Read the books. They do them justice here, especially by spending 10 hours on each (or 20 in the case of #3), but the source material is better.

It's really nice to be able to put a concrete face to the names in the book as well. Despite the small inconsistencies, they did a great job casting this and I can't wait for the books to "fade" from memory so I can read through them again with these people's faces (I hope that doesn't sound too weird...haha).


----------



## Bekanor

Xaios said:


> Don't worry, they've already announced that Meera and Jojen will be in season 3. I can understand why they didn't put them in this season, because before they all leave for the north, the Reed kids don't really do much, aside from Meera providing Theon with jailbait fantasy material.



It almost feels as though they're weening people on to the supernatural side of things out of fear that they'll lose the dickhead dudebro audience once they realise that they've been watching a fantasy series all along.


----------



## Xaios

Bekanor said:


> It almost feels as though they're weening people on to the supernatural side of things out of fear that they'll lose the dickhead dudebro audience once they realise that they've been watching a fantasy series all along.



I don't think so, because their presentation of magic as a whole is practically identical to how it is in the books.


----------



## petereanima




----------



## sakeido

Watty said:


> Read the books. They do them justice here, especially by spending 10 hours on each (or 20 in the case of #3), but the source material is better.



I don't think so. Books 1 and 3 are pretty good, 2 is okay. 4 and 5 are completely ass
Both seasons of the show have been better than their respective book imo


----------



## SirMyghin

^^ While I agree with your first statement, I haven't seen season 2 and Game of Thrones was better than S1: Game of thrones.


----------



## Xaios

sakeido said:


> I don't think so. Books 1 and 3 are pretty good, 2 is okay. 4 and 5 are completely ass
> Both seasons of the show have been better than their respective book imo



I agree with your statements on the first 3 books, but not on books 4 and 5. I found A Dance With Dragons to be a return to form after A Feast For Crows, and it's at least as good as A Clash of Kings. Regarding a Feast For Crows, I still can't call it bad, because I really did enjoy it. I got a kick out of reading about Cersei's scheming, and how her head space worked.



Spoiler



Also, the moment that she was arrested by the High Septon in AFFC was possibly the greatest single moment in all the books.


----------



## SirMyghin

^^ The BIG problem with feast, and dance is in retrospect, NOTHING HAPPENED. Or, very very little happened in a grotesque amount of paper. He has contracted Jordan syndrome. His whole 'Oh yeah, 2 big battles coming start of book 6 to wrap things up' nonsense is a cop out too, given how little was actually accomplished in his last 2000 pages. 

It really bugs me when writers take writing serial as a forgiveness for not being able to segment a story well. Cliff hanger endings as you decided that book is done is just sloppy. A well segmented series of related, joined, and slightly overlapping stories with distinct start and end points for each tale (yet still flowing well together) is greatly preferable. Eriksons Malazan series, or Kings Dark Tower would be good examples of how (with exceptions to the last 2 books in each) you can write a series without that kind of BS.


----------



## gunshow86de

Best AD/GOT mashup to date;


----------



## sakeido

SirMyghin said:


> ^^ The BIG problem with feast, and dance is in retrospect, NOTHING HAPPENED. Or, very very little happened in a grotesque amount of paper. He has contracted Jordan syndrome. His whole 'Oh yeah, 2 big battles coming start of book 6 to wrap things up' nonsense is a cop out too, given how little was actually accomplished in his last 2000 pages.
> 
> It really bugs me when writers take writing serial as a forgiveness for not being able to segment a story well. Cliff hanger endings as you decided that book is done is just sloppy. A well segmented series of related, joined, and slightly overlapping stories with distinct start and end points for each tale (yet still flowing well together) is greatly preferable. Eriksons Malazan series, or Kings Dark Tower would be good examples of how (with exceptions to the last 2 books in each) you can write a series without that kind of BS.



bingo. when he said he moved an epic battle from Dance to the next book, I just about freaked.. that book desperately needed some kind of big clash 'n' bang climax instead of what they had. Really poor storytelling decision, imo, and Jordan Syndrome sums it up extremely well.


----------



## petereanima

sakeido said:


> I don't think so. Books 1 and 3 are pretty good, 2 is okay. 4 and 5 are completely ass
> Both seasons of the show have been better than their respective book imo



Imho: the series, while I REALLY enjoy it, doesnt even come somewhere NEAR the books. Season 1 was a good adaption imho, Season 2: I have only seen the first 4 episodes so far, and I will only watch the rest of the season because I am interested if they where able to bring something back. So far, its been a pretty shitty adaption.

Book 4 and 5: I can understand why people would dislike book#4, especcially when it came out and one had to wait for years (I was in the same boat), but since Dance came out, and I re-read all of the books, not only made "Feast" much more sense, no, I also discovered things and details I obviously missed the first time. And without having to wait years for it to continue...man, Feast really was amazing at the second read.

Dance: I loved it immediately. The "nothing happened" argument, I can't reconstruct that.


----------



## sakeido

Jordan Syndrome applies because just like Robert Jordan's absolutely godawful Wheel of Time books, Martin has started mistaking cliffhangers for endings, initial events for climaxes, world building for plot development and he has far too many story threads on the go. He has forgotten entirely about the importance of resolution and basic dramatic structure.

I don't think I'll ever read the books again. The Malazan books are, for the most part, way too long as well but at least each book has a strong beginning-middle-end structure while still fitting nicely into the overarching story. That Ice and Fire gets all the props while Malazan seems to barely be a cult classic proves there is no justice in this world


----------



## SirMyghin

sakeido said:


> Jordan Syndrome applies because just like Robert Jordan's absolutely godawful Wheel of Time books, Martin has started mistaking cliffhangers for endings, initial events for climaxes, world building for plot development and he has far too many story threads on the go. He has forgotten entirely about the importance of resolution and basic dramatic structure.
> 
> I don't think I'll ever read the books again. The Malazan books are, for the most part, way too long as well but at least each book has a strong beginning-middle-end structure while still fitting nicely into the overarching story. That Ice and Fire gets all the props while Malazan seems to barely be a cult classic proves there is no justice in this world



Yeah, Malazan is pretty long , but I felt it didn't have that horrendously drawn out to sell more books effect fantasy is famous for. Most fatansy authors could probably take the events of those books, and write 2-3 books for each . While large, they have much better pacing, I guess is why I find them much more readable. 

You are right, Martin does seem to get a lot more credit overall, but I think it has mostly to do with his part in the resurgence of low fantasy. Unfortunately him taking years upon years to write the latter half of his series left a lot of room for others to creep in, and best him. It has rarely been the most saught after of genres, but progressively it feels like his series is sliding from low fantasy to high fantasy. We are starting to see all too many prophecies, more invincable/unkillable folks, etc. The entire reason I really dislike reading high fantasy at that. The terrible certainties and predictability.


Spoiler



I reserve the right to withdraw this comment if Snow actually dies, Tyrion finally dies instead of magically getting another new form of imprisonment, or Dany gets eaten by her dragon, but we all know that is very unlikely. Ever since killing Ned he has really tiptoed around ending PoV characters


----------



## -42-

^If you guys are that into the Malazan books, then you should pick up the Dread Empire and Black Company series of books by Glen Cook. Erikson has paid Cook tons of lip service over the years, and the books were pretty ahead of their time considering that fantasy of the 70s and 80s was pretty much dominated by guys like Eddings and Feist.

Back on track, I really can't wait to see how TV audiences react to


Spoiler



the Red Wedding.


----------



## Watty

sakeido said:


> I don't think so. Books 1 and 3 are pretty good, 2 is okay. 4 and 5 are completely ass
> Both seasons of the show have been better than their respective book imo



Well, this is definitely a subjective comment. I always find that the books allow you more "freedom" to interpret what you will about what's going on. However, I will like having these faces to go along with the names when I read again, should be interesting to say the least. And books 4 and 5 were....well, less than I'd hoped for, but still necessary. Kind of feels like Martin pulled a bit of a Goodkind move and just started writing a bit of filler that did little to advance the big picture, especially with Dany's character.



Xaios said:


> I agree with your statements on the first 3 books, but not on books 4 and 5. I found A Dance With Dragons to be a return to form after A Feast For Crows, and it's at least as good as A Clash of Kings. Regarding a Feast For Crows, I still can't call it bad, because I really did enjoy it. I got a kick out of reading about Cersei's scheming, and how her head space worked.



ADWD was a long slog to the end, but maybe that's just because it had been so long since he'd written the others and was struggling to make things come together. Where the first few books had a myriad of perspectives present, I felt like he REALLY keyed in on a few, which tended to hurt the overall flow somewhat. I known Tyrion's storyline proved fruitful for the big picture, it sure took a while to get to the point where you realize what resulted from his actions.



Xaios said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the moment that she was arrested by the High Septon in AFFC was possibly the greatest single moment in all the books.



Yeah, that was pretty funny, I can't wait to see that on screen!



-42- said:


> ^If you guys are that into the Malazan books, then you should pick up the Dread Empire and Black Company series of books by Glen Cook. Erikson has paid Cook tons of lip service over the years, and the books were pretty ahead of their time considering that fantasy of the 70s and 80s was pretty much dominated by guys like Eddings and Feist.



Tried reading Malazan, but the names really killed it for me. "Tattersail?" I mean really?!?! I expect stupid names from writers like CP with the Eragon series, but he really hasn't developed his writing all that much yet. Maybe it's just me, but names like that break up the flow because every time I see it, I have to stop and silently laugh on the inside!

And I like Eddings, "The Redemption of Athalus" is a personal favorite of mine. Thanks for the tip on Cook as well!



-42- said:


> Back on track, I really can't wait to see how TV audiences react to
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> the Red Wedding.



Sooooo much this! I feel like it might be slightly more, well, bloody because he married a "nobody" instead of the nobly-born Westerling as in the books, but I guess we'll see. With Martin himself directing it, should be interesting to say the least.


----------



## petereanima

-42- said:


> Back on track, I really can't wait to see how TV audiences react to
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> the Red Wedding.



Man, I am waiting for this moment since the series started. Because I want to see the faces of all my friends who havent read the books when it happens. That moment... my smugly grin will be unbearable for the others.


----------



## sakeido

A layer of the scheme has gone away with the Westerlings getting left out of it, though. Tywin's characterization in the show is different than the books, imo.. he is more sympathetic and doesn't seem like quite as big of an asshole. right now it seems like its going to be a pretty big leap for him to do the things on the show he does in the 3rd book.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

The way he is on the show is exactly how I pictured him when I was reading the books. He's not evil, but he is ruthless when it comes to achieving whatever ends he is after. After his fathers' embarrassments, he will not let the Lannister name be soiled (note the multiple scenes of him chastising his "cousins" in the show).


----------



## petereanima

Just when you thought it couldnt get any better.

George Bush Beheaded on Games of Thrones


----------



## Mexi

I don't see the similarity, especially considering it's the head on the left and from that angle.


----------



## SenorDingDong

Officially will not finish season 2 because HBO took off episodes 3-7 and I was on episode 2


----------



## Watty

Mexi said:


> I don't see the similarity, especially considering it's the head on the left and from that angle.



I can totally see it; don't see why anyone would care though. If they had it lying around, why not. With how expensive those things must be, hard to justify not recycling them when it's convenient. What's worse is that they associated Bush with the show, period.



SenorDingDong said:


> Officially will not finish season 2 because HBO took off episodes 3-7 and I was on episode 2



And unofficially? 

And, since you subscribe, can't you watch them "on-demand?" Hard to imagine they'd be able to keep their customers happy if they weren't able to watch anything in the catalog at anytime after it originally airs...


----------



## petereanima

So, finally seen all episodes of season 2 also...and imho, they fucked it up big time.

S02E10 spoilers:



Spoiler



.) Robb - uhm, yeah, so lets just put the fact aside that his wife is obviously NOT Jeyne Westerling, and just some Twilight chick added; it more looks like he is marrying her becuase he's just mad at Catelyn and besides that: horny. And WHY again is the "King in the north", who worships the old gods, marrying a Volantis girl, who has also no relation to the Seven, in front of a septon, praying some mother-maiden-crone bullshit???

.) Yes, I enjoy tits and redheads, very much. But if they have to add characters, why - obviously - are they planning to give them WAY TOO MUCH importance? Or what is it that Varys has planned with her?

.) Jon - the way they showed seemed more like a "killing Halfhand in self defense", and also Jon didnt even tell the wildlings that he wants to "turncloak", and why would they based on this cut his chains? That makes no sense imho.

.) House of the undying - wtf was that, "Moon of my life" twilight bullshit...yes, I am aweare that they can't show some of the visions as decribed in the book, because we as viewers know how some persons look, but that was just random shit. Also, there should have been more udnying than just Pree and some holodeck-shizzle-copies of him...



book spoilers (up to ADWD):



Spoiler



.) Xaro - I am pretty sure the whole "fucking Danys handmaiden and then get locked with her in his vault to die" thing was not in the book, was it? Also he reappers in ADWD....wtf...

based on how the characters evolved in the series:

.) no one will shed a tear for Robb at the Red Wedding. 

.) I'd vote for Slynt as Lord Commander.


----------



## Watty

*If you haven't seen up until this point in the series, you probably shouldn't be viewing this page of the thread, so I'm not going to overly censor everything for the sake of the green-balance on this page.*

So, yeah, they changed things. For the sake of TV audiences, they changed things. However, I don't really think anything has become catastrophically bad as a result. 



petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Robb - uhm, yeah, so lets just put the fact aside that his wife is obviously NOT Jeyne Westerling, and just some Twilight chick added; it more looks like he is marrying her becuase he's just mad at Catelyn and besides that: horny. And WHY again is the "King in the north", who worships the old gods, marrying a Volantis girl, who has also no relation to the Seven, in front of a septon, praying some mother-maiden-crone bullshit???



It's been mentioned before, and I don't know where you got Twilight out of her appearance; she's obviously more attractive than anyone in that movie. And their marriage still helps set up the event in the next season precisely because she doesn't share the same ideologies; might not be as big a deal as marrying into a minor house, but still worth the slight to Frey's honor. And if you were marrying a King, wouldn't you embrace the traditions of his religion (i.e. the UK ?)



petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I enjoy tits and redheads, very much. But if they have to add characters, why - obviously - are they planning to give them WAY TOO MUCH importance? Or what is it that Varys has planned with her?



I do think they've spent way too much time with her already, so hopefully the actual fruition of her continued inclusion in the storyline will be revealed. And honestly, we have to admit tits are what sells HBO, though if they just saw fit to release each episode for $5 a pop after it aired, they wouldn't need to worry about this. (How many seeds do the GoT's have...lol)



petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Jon - the way they showed seemed more like a "killing Halfhand in self defense", and also Jon didnt even tell the wildlings that he wants to "turncloak", and why would they based on this cut his chains? That makes no sense imho.



I think they should have spent more time with this aspect, especially since it becomes pretty important later on. Though, you've got to admit, doing what he did would be a pretty good reason to cut his bonds, especially given the way he was kind of acting "dazed" up until that point.



petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> House of the undying - wtf was that, "Moon of my life" twilight bullshit...yes, I am aweare that they can't show some of the visions as decribed in the book, because we as viewers know how some persons look, but that was just random shit. Also, there should have been more udnying than just Pree and some holodeck-shizzle-copies of him...



I do agree with you on the Pree part, they didn't even bother going dual-gendered in this regard, though he did look a bit "uni-sexual." However, I think they did an excellent job portraying the HotU given that it would've have been hard to reproduce the accurate text representation, be it for cost or visual value reasons. They provided a good bit of plot exposition while still managing to include the all important "flash-back" that TV viewers like to see in their media.



petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Xaro - I am pretty sure the whole "fucking Danys handmaiden and then get locked with her in his vault to die" thing was not in the book, was it? Also he reappers in ADWD....wtf...



Yeah, I thought that was weird; it seems like they're trying to toughen Dany up for what's to come in later seasons.


----------



## petereanima

Watty said:


> It's been mentioned before, and I don't know where you got Twilight out of her appearance; she's obviously more attractive than anyone in that movie. And their marriage still helps set up the event in the next season precisely because she doesn't share the same ideologies; might not be as big a deal as marrying into a minor house, but still worth the slight to Frey's honor. And if you were marrying a King, wouldn't you embrace the traditions of his religion (i.e. the UK ?)



The thing is - YES, if they would have to choose a religion, obviously it must be Robb's. Which are the old gods, not the seven. The marriage would be in front of a heart tree, not with a septon.

That Twilight thing - I was just speaking straight frm my mind as I was "freshly" pissed.


----------



## hairychris

sakeido said:


> Jordan Syndrome applies because just like Robert Jordan's absolutely godawful Wheel of Time books, Martin has started mistaking cliffhangers for endings, initial events for climaxes, world building for plot development and he has far too many story threads on the go. He has forgotten entirely about the importance of resolution and basic dramatic structure.



He's not as bad as Jordan*, IMO, but there's a definite hint of "Dune" going on earlier on in the series. And it definitely helps if you read the books as a continuous thread as there aren't climaxes to individual books as you say.

I don't mind ploughing through books structured like this if it's reasonably written with entertaining characters, but I'll be quite annoyed if he ballses up the end of the series. 

*At least with Jordan I made it through 3 of the books before meh-ing as opposed to Stephen R Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series where I got as far as 1/3 through the first book before quitting in disgust.


----------



## sakeido

I absolutely love the first two Dune books. Dune got reaaaaaally weird/bad from book 3 on and I bailed out of that series. Thomas Covenant - book 1 is the weakest of that whole series by a long shot. Thomas is way too much of an asshole in book 1 and probably the whole first trilogy. The second trilogy of Unbeliever books is quite a bit better, in my opinion. 

GoT.. man this series. I'm just re-reading the third one now and it is probably the best of all of them, but it just makes books 4 and 5 all that much worse in comparison. So much happens!


----------



## Xaios

Dune has been mentioned. This is now relevant:


----------



## gunshow86de

OMG, OMG, OMG Game of Thrones political ads. The Joffrey birther movement.


----------



## Watty

petereanima said:


> The thing is - YES, if they would have to choose a religion, obviously it must be Robb's. Which are the old gods, not the seven. The marriage would be in front of a heart tree, not with a septon.
> 
> That Twilight thing - I was just speaking straight frm my mind as I was "freshly" pissed.



I TOTALLY missed that part...*gives self a head-slap*

Fair enough man...haha


----------



## jaredowty

I just finished the first season a few weeks ago..the day afterwards, I went to pick up the first book, and right when I walked in the door of B&N I saw a poster: "George RR Martin coming to Missoula's MisCon!". So I got to meet him/get my book signed a few days later, as well as get my picture taken on the Iron Throne. 

Epic, epic series. The difference between this and your typical fantasy series is the intense moral ambiguity, (mostly) complex characters and a very gritty reality at the core of the drama. I'm an HBO fanatic and it seems they did a fantastic job with the source material (I'm almost through the first book and will start on the second season afterwards, then start the second book). God, I hope this doesn't start getting slow, dull and redundant like Jordan's books did.


----------



## SenorDingDong

Because my internet and phone service all went to shit the past week, I was able to finish watching season two. 


First off, that war was _bullshit_.


Spoiler



When daddy dearest just happens to show up exactly at the right time so she doesn't kill her stupid little fucking kid and herself? Bullshit. I wanted her to die so badly, was getting so tired of her, but noooooooooooooooo. 


Bullshit.





Secondly, I can't wait for the next season.


----------



## fwd0120

I keep seeing this thread all the time... but I never knew that this wasn't the guy that worked with the beatles until I looked it up!


----------



## Watty

SenorDingDong said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> When daddy dearest just happens to show up exactly at the right time so she doesn't kill her stupid little fucking kid and herself? Bullshit. I wanted her to die so badly, was getting so tired of her, but noooooooooooooooo.



To reply to this sentiment....read the books if you want to feel satisfied. (The character you mentioned) gets what's coming for (him/her) in a very funny and ironic fashion.


----------



## liamh

Where did Asha go in the last episode??


----------



## Xaios

Watty said:


> To reply to this sentiment....read the books if you want to feel satisfied. (The character you mentioned) gets what's coming for (him/her) in a very funny and ironic fashion.



Oh boy, do they ever. One of the best moments in the entire series. 



liamh said:


> Where did Asha go in the last episode??



Back to Deepwood Motte.


----------



## Xaios

*AWESOMENESS TO BE FOUND HERE:*


----------



## Watty

Xaios said:


> *AWESOMENESS TO BE FOUND HERE:*



aaaaannnnnddddd...

/thread

At least until April of next year.


----------



## gunshow86de

New confirmed casting; Season three begins in March!


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Just finished the 3rd book. Easily the best that I've read so far in the series.

Kind of worried now though. Everybody that I know has said that the 4th and 5th books aren't as good as the first three.


----------



## sakeido

good god. whoever does casting for this show deserves a special achievement trophy. 

jojen & meera look exactly how I thought they would. Berek and the Blackfish are both perfect. Thoros looks like he'll work but he's not _quite_ how I thought how he'd look.. and I pictured Olenna as being much older than that lady. overall though, hell yes! 

still got Mance Raydar, Tormund Tall-Talker, a bunch of Freys, the Bastard of Bolton, and Oberyn fkin Martell to go.. ooooooh man the next 2 seasons of the show are going to be so sick!


----------



## Xaios

sakeido said:


> good god. whoever does casting for this show deserves a special achievement trophy.
> 
> jojen & meera look exactly how I thought they would. Berek and the Blackfish are both perfect. Thoros looks like he'll work but he's not _quite_ how I thought how he'd look.. and I pictured Olenna as being much older than that lady. overall though, hell yes!
> 
> still got Mance Raydar, Tormund Tall-Talker, a bunch of Freys, the Bastard of Bolton, and Oberyn fkin Martell to go.. ooooooh man the next 2 seasons of the show are going to be so sick!



No kidding, the casting of this show has just been beyond amazing so far. Definitely psyched!

I'm still shooting for Alexander Siddig as Oberyn Martell. :fingerscrossed:


----------



## MrGignac

no tormund giantsbane in the casting? meera and jojen look pretty spot on.


----------



## gunshow86de

MrGignac said:


> no tormund giantsbane in the casting? meera and jojen look pretty spot on.



It's Kristofer Hivju, sorry didn't have a .gif of him. And no, it's not a rumor anymore. Though the rumor is apparently what got him the audition.


----------



## MrGignac

cool, i hadnt heard he was casted. i love the show and everything, but i just want GRRM to finish the series, or at least the next book soon. I think AFFC & ADWD could have easily been condensed into a 1500 page single volume.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

MrGignac said:


> ...



Spoilers dude.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

MrGignac, when discussing plot details that are ahead of the series, please use the


Spoiler



spoiler


 tags (you can quote this to see the tag format). Most of the people paying attention to this thread have already read the books, but DivineWing has only finished Storm of Swords.


----------



## Fiction

As have I


----------



## MrGignac

sorry guys, ive edited the post. how do i change background color?


----------



## gunshow86de

MrGignac said:


> sorry guys, ive edited the post. how do i change background color?



Type


Spoiler



whatever you don't want to be seen [/ spoiler] <- but without the space between / and spoiler. If I don't put that space


Spoiler



it adds the tag automatically


.


----------



## Xaios

Alright folks. Season 3 starts tomorrow.

Y'ALL FUCKING STOKED!?!


----------



## AxeHappy

Yes. Super fucking stoked.


----------



## Mexi

TONIGHT!!!!


----------



## Watty

Yep!


----------



## gunshow86de

My body is ready......................... for dragons.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Screw the show, I need a new novel :c


----------



## gunshow86de

Pretty good episode, but no Strong Belwas makes me kind of sad.


----------



## Xaios

Haha yeah, Strong Belwas' absence kinda made me sad too. Interesting that they eschewed the plot line of him masquerading as simply being "Whitebeard," because in the book that reveal kinda coincides with another key plot point.

The best part of the episode, though, and the one that really made you _feel_ it, was when Twyin utterly rebukes Tyrion when he asks for his inheritance. You could just feel the knife in Tyrion's back when that happened.

A good episode, not great, but it sets up a lot, like a season opener in a show like this usually does, and it did it well.

Interesting deviation from the book (granted, not the only one):


Spoiler



In the book, Jon tells Mance that he wants to join the wildings because, being both a bastard and a crow, he'd basically never have the chance to create a legacy. Now in the show he says he wants to join the crows because he resents that the Night's Watch knew that Craster was sacrificing his children to the White Walkers and did nothing.


----------



## Watty

Meh, I felt like they should have done a bit more with this being the season opener...Just seemed, well, slow for some reason; at least moreso than it should have. And any word for sure that this book is getting split in two or not? I haven't bothered to really look into it. 



Spoiler



Having the Red Wedding this season would be something cool to look forward to for sure. 



*mod edit: spoiler tags, use some*


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## Xaios

Watty said:


> Meh, I felt like they should have done a bit more with this being the season opener...Just seemed, well, slow for some reason; at least moreso than it should have. And any word for sure that this book is getting split in two or not? I haven't bothered to really look into it.



Okay, first of all, for your second paragraph, *please use spoiler tags*. Upcoming major plot point, and all.

Secondly, the pacing is noticeably slower, but I think it's a good thing. Season 2 always felt rushed, and with good reason: they were trying to get through a massive book in too little time. The 2 season split (which has been confirmed for a loooong time now) allows them to be more deliberate in their pacing.

One other thing...

YAAAAY for not having hear Danny yell "WHERE... ARE... MY... *DRAGONS!?!?!*" every 30 seconds. 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I guess it's pretty obvious why they didn't try to fit the whole "Whitebeard" thing in. Everyone would have known it was Selmy simply because it was the same actor, whereas in the book, Danny had never met him and Jorah had only been acquainted with him in passing, not having seem him for several years.



Spoiler



Regarding the books, Selmy is always one of my favorite characters there, because he basically serves as a replacement for the spirit of Ned Stark. He's someone who speaks the truth even when people don't want to hear it, but is still an ever-loyal servant to his ruler, who perhaps doesn't truly deserve his devotion all the time.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Really good episode apart from some questionable changes. 



Spoiler



The Davos and Stannis was exchange brilliant. They could have added a bit more suspense to Davos being alive dragging his scene on the rock out a minute or two longer.

Charles Dance was amazing. He is going to be incredible this season. I love how they put in his final line from one of Tyrion's POV chapters.

The scenes beyond the wall were terrible imo. They deviated to far from the book for no real reason. What is up with Tormund? He is one of the funniest characters in the book. He didn't even say "HUR HUR!". I understand they have a very limited budget but a bit of fighting at the fist would have been cool.

Astapor looks great! They only shied away from a few of the nasty Unsullied details. I will be epic to see this plot come to the big screen.



All in all pretty damn good. Since last season I've read all the books so this is the first time I've been able to watch it knowing what happens next so like everyone I'm not going to be to happy with big changes.


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## Xaios

drawnacrol said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The Davos and Stannis was exchange brilliant. They could have added a bit more suspense to Davos being alive dragging his scene on the rock out a minute or two longer.





Spoiler



Personally, I think it started out slow, and Stannis wasn't particularly amazing. It *did* pick up once Melisandre got involved, though. She completely owns both Davos, and the entire scene.





drawnacrol said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Dance was amazing. He is going to be incredible this season. I love how they put in his final line from one of Tyrion's POV chapters.





Spoiler



Agreed. He was just on fire in his scene with Tyrion. Charles Dance just kills it every time he's on screen.





drawnacrol said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The scenes beyond the wall were terrible imo. They deviated to far from the book for no real reason. What is up with Tormund? He is one of the funniest characters in the book. He didn't even say "HUR HUR!". I understand they have a very limited budget but a bit of fighting at the fist would have been cool.





Spoiler



I'd say that they were the low point, although they weren't bad per se, because it can never be bad when Rose Leslie is on screen. 

I will admit, the scene with the wight trying to kill Sam wasn't as exciting as it should have been, and that whole scene felt anti-climactic because of how they'd managed to end Season 2 with the whole army of undead.

The fact is though, those battle scenes are *super* expensive, especially when you get all the CGI involved, which would be a necessity here because the Others are 100% CGI.





drawnacrol said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Astapor looks great! They only shied away from a few of the nasty Unsullied details. I will be epic to see this plot come to the big screen.





Spoiler



They kind of replaced it with something else, though I'm not sure which is worse. In the episode, they stated that the Unsullied had to take a newborn baby from it's mother and kill it in cold blood to earn their shield. On the flipside, in the book, they have to kill a dog that they themselves raise since they're both young. Nasty business all around.

I did like how they kept in the bits about the slave trader insulting Danny in Ghiscari because he knew that she couldn't understand, good fun. 



There was an article I saw on Reddit earlier today about Peter Dinklage not coming back for Season 4. Gotta love April Fools Day.


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## Watty

> *mod edit: spoiler tags, use some*[\QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xaios said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, first of all, for your second paragraph, *please use spoiler tags*. Upcoming major plot point, and all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how it's any more a spoiler than ANYTHING else posted here in regular typeface.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> A) None of the involved characters have really been fleshed out in any detail yet, so those only watching the show will have no idea who's wedding it is. They're free to speculate, but being that I didn't say "these people die," I don't see why it should be marked as a spoiler.
> B) "Red Wedding" means nothing unless you've read the books, in which case it's not a spoiler. I may as well have said something about the "green goblin;" would've had about the same amount of plot revealed in and of itself.
> 
> If people wanted to look it up, that's not my problem as they could simply go read the wiki for the series right now and figure out what I mean. It seems counterproductive to use the spoilers for every mundane thing mentioned....hell even your last paragraph doesn't reveal anything that those watching the show wouldn't know already, thus making it moot to green it out.
Click to expand...


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## metalmaiden

Heck yes, I'm on the third book now!


----------



## Fiction

Watty said:


> I don't understand how it's any more a spoiler than ANYTHING else posted here in regular typeface.



It's really not that big deal, no need to start one of your arguments in this thread as well 

I enjoyed the first episode, started to flesh out the season which is something


----------



## Watty

Fiction said:


> It's really not that big deal, no need to start one of your arguments in this thread as well



That's the point? And really?


----------



## Prydogga

Xaios said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say that they were the low point, although they weren't bad per se, because it can never be bad when Rose Leslie is on screen.
> 
> I will admit, the scene with the wight trying to kill Sam wasn't as exciting as it should have been, and that whole scene felt anti-climactic because of how they'd managed to end Season 2 with the whole army of undead.
> 
> The fact is though, those battle scenes are *super* expensive, especially when you get all the CGI involved, which would be a necessity here because the Others are 100% CGI.





Spoiler



Yeah, I started reading book 3 after season 2 ended as I just *needed* to continue on with the story, and really found the introductory story about trying to kill Sam very lacking, although I feel what has replaced it to be lacking in a different way, just not having enough information about the scene. Especially with how they'll have to compensate in not talking about him sending the ravens with no messages.





> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I did like how they kept in the bits about the slave trader insulting Danny in Ghiscari because he knew that she couldn't understand, good fun.





Spoiler



This I was definitely glad to see, although from watching, it didn't seem like we were lead to believe that she could understand, although I may have missed that. I think a lot of the beauty of that section in the book was that she could understand how awful he was, and I think that further informs _later decisions_, although I can understand that they don't really need to justify that any further. 

I was disappointed we didn't get to see anything in the ship, with Jorah advancing on Danny (I'm sure many would be happy to see the boob action from Danny haha,) with the talk about Dragon history and stunted growth, etc, although that may come in later. That may have come in later in the book anyway, I forget.




Anyway, I'm currently into part 2 of book three, and BIG SPOILER DON'T EVEN DARE


Spoiler



EVERYBODY'S FUCKING DYING. I really hope things pick up from here. I mean, the story is GREAT at the moment, I'm just falling apart inside inside reading all my favourite characters dying. Although Joffrey died a shitty death so that's a plus.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Just finished the 5th book. Wow. The first two hundred pages or so were slow but it is definitely made up for in the end.

Dance with Dragons Spoilers


Spoiler



I'm going to be so pissed if Jon is really dead. And I'm bummed with how little Bran was in the story.



Winds of Winter can't come soon enough.


----------



## petereanima

TheDivineWing22 said:


> Dance of Dragons Spoilers
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be so pissed if Jon is really dead. And I'm bummed with how little Bran was in the story.






Spoiler



I'm pretty sure he isn't. 
My theory is, that (I'm not at my desk currently, so I'll have to make it short) - Jon vargs into Ghost, will be brought back by Mellisandre, is AA reborn.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

petereanima said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure he isn't.
> My theory is, that (I'm not at my desk currently, so I'll have to make it short) - Jon vargs into Ghost, will be brought back by Mellisandre, is AA reborn.



I'm thinking you're right.

More book 5 spoilers



Spoiler



There a lot of evidence to support it. The wounds smoking thing,and Melisandre only seeing Jon when she is looking for Stannis.

I still think that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.


----------



## sakeido

TheDivineWing22 said:


> I'm thinking you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> There a lot of evidence to support it. The wounds smoking thing,and Melisandre only seeing Jon when she is looking for Stannis.
> 
> I still think that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.





Spoiler



I think he definitely is, and that just satisfies some of the conditions of whatever prophecies surround AA. 

if he comes back though, doesn't he have to sacrifice someone to make his sword? who might he have left to him that could fill that for him, since Ygritte is already dead and I don't think he moved on to anyone else.


----------



## tacotiklah

I managed to finish up book 3 over the weekend:
(lots of spoilers, so don't read if you're not caught up on book 3)


Spoiler



So much crazy shit going on. I called it early on that Jon would end up as either Lord of Winterfell or Lord Commander of the Wall, although I figured the latter was more likely, and sure enough it happens. The Red Wedding was seriously fucked up though and should never have happened. Good to see that Catelyn Stark still lives, although she can't speak anymore. I'm curious how Stannis is going to react to the fact that Jon is now Lord Commander and cannot be Lord of Winterfell like he had asked.


----------



## st2012

sakeido said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I think he definitely is, and that just satisfies some of the conditions of whatever prophecies surround AA.
> 
> if he comes back though, doesn't he have to sacrifice someone to make his sword? who might he have left to him that could fill that for him, since Ygritte is already dead and I don't think he moved on to anyone else.



Book 5 spoilers...


Spoiler



I'm also pretty convinced that Jon is AA. There was too much information throughout his chapters in book 5 that seemed unnecessary at first until you look at it in that light. As far as Lightbringer, I don't think Jon will have to reforge it so he shouldn't have to make a sacrifice on the level that AA did. I'm still not convinced that Lightbringer is a physical object but that's probably discussion for when I've had a few more drinks. Dude needs to hurry up with Winds of Winter!


----------



## petereanima

TheDivineWing22 said:


> I'm thinking you're right.
> 
> More book 5 spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> There a lot of evidence to support it. The wounds smoking thing,and Melisandre only seeing Jon when she is looking for Stannis.
> 
> I still think that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.





Spoiler



Yep:

1.) Smoke - from his wounds
2.) Salt - tears from Bowen Marsh
3.) Bleeding Star - Ser Patrick's - who has a star as his heraldry - body beeing thrown around by the giant

And yes - I'm also pretty sure that R+L=J


----------



## Xaios

Spoiler



R + L = J. Worst kept secret in Westeros. 

If Jon is the Azor Ahai or the Kwisatz Haderach or whatever, it would certainly be awkward to reconcile that was his faith in the Old Gods.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Xaios said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> R + L = J. Worst kept secret in Westeros.
> 
> If Jon is the Azor Ahai or the Kwisatz Haderach or whatever, it would certainly be awkward to reconcile that was his faith in the Old Gods.



oh my christ the double reference 



Spoiler



my best friend and I are pretty certain that Jon will survive the attack and end up being AA.

Red Wedding will be cool as fuck but also heartbreaking to watch, goddamnit Robb


----------



## gunshow86de

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Red Wedding will be cool as fuck but also heartbreaking to watch, goddamnit Robb





Spoiler



I'll be really sad if they show them killing Grey Wind, poor puppy.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Xaios said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> R + L = J. Worst kept secret in Westeros.



Funny thing is, I called it way back in the first book.

I'll probably be wrong just because of that.


----------

