# 5150 Style Preamp on a budget



## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

Looking for a distortion pedal/preamp that I can run into a power amp. Been using a little practice amp since the big amp stays at the practice spot, but I'm looking for an upgrade in tone for my practice rig. I use a 6505 normally, so I'm looking for something that can at least passable high gain sound.

Currently debating between the MXR 5150 or the AMT P1/P2. I'd like to spend less than $200 and have no issues buying used gear.

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## oracles (Sep 7, 2018)

Dunn DE1984 

https://reverb.com/item/13238260-dunn-effects-de1984-2018-acid-etched


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 7, 2018)

AMPTWEAKER TIGHT METAL.

Made by James Brown (who designed the 5150), it is the closest any pedal has come to the 5150 preamp. It's also arguably the best preamp pedal on the market.

I've owned the MXR 5150 Overdrive and AMT P2. Neither hold a candle to the Tight Metal.

https://amptweaker.com/tightmetal/


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## Beheroth (Sep 7, 2018)

mooer 005, 015 (respectively evh and peavey), amptweaker tightmetal


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 7, 2018)

AMT P2 gets my vote. It's a cool pedal, albeit tighter sounding than a regular 5150.

The Peavey Rock master is also an option, although its closer to a 5150ii or Ultra Plus. 

I feel like the MXR may not be there. It's closer to the 5153 blue channel, which isnt as aggressive as a 5150.

Id say check out the P2. It's affordable, small, and sounds brutal. Very very close to that 5150 grind.


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## Beheroth (Sep 7, 2018)

oracles said:


> Dunn DE1984
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/13238260-dunn-effects-de1984-2018-acid-etched



there's also the dunn redeemer, both emulate the 5150 but the circuits are different


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## Bearitone (Sep 7, 2018)

I don’t think you can go wrong with the P2 or the Tightmetal.
I like the R2 more than the P2 though and a few people on here share that opinion so there’s that.

If you go with either consider grabbing an Amptweaker depth finder to go with it. I have the equivalent of the depth finder in a mod on the TM and the difference it makes is night and day imo.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> AMT P2 gets my vote. It's a cool pedal, albeit tighter sounding than a regular 5150.
> 
> The Peavey Rock master is also an option, although its closer to a 5150ii or Ultra Plus.
> 
> ...


The P1 sounds exactly the same right? I know the P2 has more functionality, but it's nothing I need really.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

Bentaycanada said:


> AMPTWEAKER TIGHT METAL.
> 
> Made by James Brown (who designed the 5150), it is the closest any pedal has come to the 5150 preamp. It's also arguably the best preamp pedal on the market.
> 
> ...



Those sound pretty sweet, but I'm kinda leery about the lack of a 3 band EQ. How much does the tone knob change?


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Those sound pretty sweet, but I'm kinda leery about the lack of a 3 band EQ. How much does the tone knob change?


Nevermind, I was looking at the junior.

Is the Tight Metal suitable as a standalone preamp? I'd be plugging it right into an old Rocktron Velocity.


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## Bearitone (Sep 7, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Nevermind, I was looking at the junior.
> 
> Is the Tight Metal suitable as a standalone preamp? I'd be plugging it right into an old Rocktron Velocity.



Yes. It is a preamp and sounds best used that way (imo)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 7, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> The P1 sounds exactly the same right? I know the P2 has more functionality, but it's nothing I need really.



I've heard there's a Possible slight difference. 

And yeah it's a taste thing but both the P2 and R2 are killer. The R2 is darker, thicker, and growlier. The P2 is brighter, tighter, and more aggressive. They both sound great in their own ways. 

Also Ive owned a Triple Recto and 5150II. Imo the AMT stuff is really hard to beat. The Jfet shit does wonder for pedals to make them very amp like.


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## Bearitone (Sep 7, 2018)

http://sevenstring.org/threads/npd-custom-amptweaker-tightmetal-jr.331310/
This thread may help you make a decision


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 7, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Nevermind, I was looking at the junior.
> 
> Is the Tight Metal suitable as a standalone preamp? I'd be plugging it right into an old Rocktron Velocity.



Yes, it works best into a power amp or fx return on an amp head (so as to bypass the preamp section of the amp). That's a literal quote from James Brown when I spoke to him a few years back.

The TM also features an fx loop of it's own which I generally put an EQ pedal thru, for fine tuning.

There's also an ST model, that has a 2nd fx loop (called the Side-Trak) that is only engaged when the pedal is disengaged. This is good for chorus on a clean sound, or if you want to get adventurous, I used to run a Zoom MS-50G pedal in the Side-Trak, using a Fender amp model + fx for my clean tones. It worked great!


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## budda (Sep 7, 2018)

Peavey XXL combo.


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## KailM (Sep 7, 2018)

You could probably get an old Peavey Vypyr 30 combo for <$150 and its 6505 model does a more than passable job doing the 5150 sound; especially for just practicing.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

KailM said:


> You could probably get an old Peavey Vypyr 30 combo for <$150 and its 6505 model does a more than passable job doing the 5150 sound; especially for just practicing.


Ironically enough, that's what I've been using. I just moved back home after living elsewhere for a while.

The Vypyr served nobly, especially for the cost, but even free vst amps sound better to my ear and I'd rather not have to use my PC every time I want to riff. I'll certainly keep it around, but now that I've got access to my spare cab and power amp I'd like to use those.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 7, 2018)

As someone who owns them all.... the P2 Drive Mini would be perfect and you can find them for $70 or less online. It also has an added mid focus switch which allows you to select between midrangey EVH tones and more modern metal, compressed, tighter sounding tones. 

The Tech21 OMG also has that 5150 sound and has a built in boost (you can use either too) that is perfectly dialed in. It is one of my fav pedals. It is also heavily compressed and articulate.

When you have more money get an MI Audio Megalith Delta! It has a 5150 style setting and it is just CRUSHING. (It also does Mesa and Diezel)


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> As someone who owns them all.... the P2 Drive Mini would be perfect and you can find them for $70 or less online. It also has an added mid focus switch which allows you to select between midrangey EVH tones and more modern metal, compressed, tighter sounding tones.
> 
> The Tech21 OMG also has that 5150 sound and has a built in boost (you can use either too) that is perfectly dialed in. It is one of my fav pedals. It is also heavily compressed and articulate.
> 
> When you have more money get an MI Audio Megalith Delta! It has a 5150 style setting and it is just CRUSHING. (It also does Mesa and Diezel)


If I'm reading right, it doesn't seem like the mini versions would work as well as a standalone preamp, that they're better into a clean amp.

The P1 seems to be available for around 85. If I have no need for the clean amp or drive out, is that a good option? Seems to do exactly what I'd need it to.

I'm thinking I'll get one of these AMT pedals for now and then grab a Tight Metal later.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 7, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> If I'm reading right, it doesn't seem like the mini versions would work as well as a standalone preamp, that they're better into a clean amp.
> 
> The P1 seems to be available for around 85. If I have no need for the clean amp or drive out, is that a good option? Seems to do exactly what I'd need it to.
> 
> I'm thinking I'll get one of these AMT pedals for now and then grab a Tight Metal later.



No. The drive is the exact drive section of the P1 and P2. The LA2 P2 adds clean channel and 3 outputs instead of 1. The drive and drive mini are designed only to be used input into a very clean channel (preferably with high headroom), whereas LA2 pedals add those other features (can be run direct to board or DAW, very clean channel, or to a power amp).


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 7, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> No. The drive is the exact drive section of the P1 and P2. The LA2 P2 adds clean channel and 3 outputs instead of 1. The drive and drive mini are designed only to be used input into a very clean channel (preferably with high headroom), whereas LA2 pedals add those other features (can be run direct to board or DAW, very clean channel, or to a power amp).


Cool thanks, I've been out of the gear game for a while, so it's interesting to see all the new stuff that's come out. Once I got my 6505 setup how I wanted I just quit looking around for the most part.

I need one for into a power amp so the P1 sounds pretty perfect. I've got other overdrives so the addition of the drive out on the P2 isn't a big concern.

How good are the cab sims on the LA2 series?


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## Bearitone (Sep 8, 2018)

Tons of videos of the cab sims on these. Just hit up youtube


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## karnivorus (Sep 8, 2018)

I just ordered the P1 just for recording with impulses. I'm sick of ampsims and this pedal seems like a great alternative.


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## bracky (Sep 8, 2018)

Mooer 005. It’s hard to tell you aren’t playing through the actual amp. It’s that good.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 8, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> How good are the cab sims on the LA2 series?


Ass.  

TBH I had both the Mooer 005 and the P2. The P2 was better IMO. More aggressive, more midrange, and was louder. Idk if they fixed it but the biggest problem with those Mooer preamps were how quiet they were. My P2 was *significantly* louder than the 005.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 8, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Ass.
> 
> TBH I had both the Mooer 005 and the P2. The P2 was better IMO. More aggressive, more midrange, and was louder. Idk if they fixed it but the biggest problem with those Mooer preamps were how quiet they were. My P2 was *significantly* louder than the 005.


That's what I thought based on the videos I'd seen.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 8, 2018)

Thanks for the help everyone. I've ordered an AMT P1 for the time being.

I'm gonna give it a shot and if it disappoints get the Tigtt Metal.

Anyone have any insight into power amps? The Rocktron Velocity 120 I have seems transparent enough, but there isn't a lot of headroom if I wanted to take this setup to jam, not sure it could compete with a drummer.

Would a simple crown power amp do the trick? They can be had pretty cheap. Something with resonance or presence controls would be nice.


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## Bearitone (Sep 8, 2018)

Mosvalve 942. Great poweramp. It lacks low end but, it’s so clear. Super cheap for how great it is too


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 8, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Thanks for the help everyone. I've ordered an AMT P1 for the time being.
> 
> I'm gonna give it a shot and if it disappoints get the Tigtt Metal.
> 
> ...



The Velocity should do fine. For rehearsals it should be able to cut through a drummer.

I'm not sure if you should use a Crown power amp, though. those are 100% transparent, and you might want some coloration to make things sound a bit better. It'll sound heavy, but it won't sound as full and brutal as a 5150 since the power amp does give a lot of depth to the sound.


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## I play music (Sep 8, 2018)

bracky said:


> Mooer 005. It’s hard to tell you aren’t playing through the actual amp. It’s that good.


Why the 005 and not the 015? 015 should sound more like a 5150, no?
Speaking about Mooer, someone here claimed that the Mooer Black Truck contains a Tightmetal copy as the distortion section so it should also sound 5150-like.


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## Deadpool_25 (Sep 10, 2018)

Cool. I don’t know how the AMT P1 is, but the P2 is killer. Running that into any of my amps’ FX Loops is pretty beastly.


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## Vyn (Sep 10, 2018)

Beheroth said:


> mooer 005, 015 (respectively evh and peavey), amptweaker tightmetal



+1 for the Mooer gear. 005 if you want that 5153 flavour, 015 if you want more of a 5150 deal. Both sound killer.


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## Gmork (Sep 10, 2018)

My vote goes to the tightmetal, its modelled after the 5150 and vh140 by james brown the man WHO ACTUALLY INVENTED THE 5150


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## bracky (Sep 10, 2018)

I play music said:


> Why the 005 and not the 015? 015 should sound more like a 5150, no?
> Speaking about Mooer, someone here claimed that the Mooer Black Truck contains a Tightmetal copy as the distortion section so it should also sound 5150-like.



It’s the one I own and have experience with.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

Update on my search: the AMT P1 is quite a disappointment based on what I'd seen in videos.

It sounds alright, but there's a low end flub that's impossible to dial out, even when the bass is on 0. 

I tried with a few guitars and couldn't get it away until I put a boost in front. Problem with that is the amount of noise generated requires a noise suppressor. With all this complication it kinda defeats the purpose of the whole amp in a box deal.

Sadly, it only sounds marginally better than a Metal Zone in the same use to my ears. Looks like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and go for the Tight Metal.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Update on my search: the AMT P1 is quite a disappointment based on what I'd seen in videos.
> 
> It sounds alright, but there's a low end flub that's impossible to dial out, even when the bass is on 0.
> 
> ...



Are you using a 9v or 12v power supply?


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## Bearitone (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Update on my search: the AMT P1 is quite a disappointment based on what I'd seen in videos.
> 
> It sounds alright, but there's a low end flub that's impossible to dial out, even when the bass is on 0.
> 
> ...



I’m not surprised that you need an overdrive and a gate. I needed those two on every tube head I’ve owned to make them tight and quiet. 

The metal zone comment does surprise me though. You are using the pedal direct into the effects return correct?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

Yeah, when I played my P2 and R2, they sounded nothing like distortion pedals. They sounded legit.

If you're plugging it into the front of your amp, that may cause problems. Could probably be distorting the amp itself and causing that Metal Zone-esque buzzsaw.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Are you using a 9v or 12v power supply?


A 9v one spot. Would a 12v make that much of a difference? Are there any cheap ones available?


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

kindsage said:


> I’m not surprised that you need an overdrive and a gate. I needed those two on every tube head I’ve owned to make them tight and quiet.
> 
> The metal zone comment does surprise me though. You are using the pedal direct into the effects return correct?





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah, when I played my P2 and R2, they sounded nothing like distortion pedals. They sounded legit.
> 
> If you're plugging it into the front of your amp, that may cause problems. Could probably be distorting the amp itself and causing that Metal Zone-esque buzzsaw.


Plugging both straight into a Rocktron Velocity power amp into a cab.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> A 9v one spot. Would a 12v make that much of a difference? Are there any cheap ones available?



I've heard some people say it does. It increases the headroom. You can probably find a generic 12v power supply on ebay. 
Also make sure you're not plugging into the cab sim out.


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## Bearitone (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Plugging both straight into a Rocktron Velocity power amp into a cab.



Hm. So your signal chain is just guitar>P1 (being sure to use the preamp output in the center) > rocktron> Cabinet?

I would probably hate that chain too. Your poweramp isn’t going to sound up to snuff compared to a 6505 poweramp. Even the latest Rocktron Mainline doesnt come close imho. And then with no OD or gate i see why you aren’t liking your current tone

My apologies for recommending the AMT  Im used to assuming everyone has a boost and a gate these days. For an all-in-one solution the tightmetal would definitely be a better choice.

I generally don’t like recommending products i haven’t tried but, the new Horizon Apex might suit your needs. The price is steep but, it does have a built in gate and boost.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> A 9v one spot. Would a 12v make that much of a difference? Are there any cheap ones available?



I've heard some people say it does. It increases the headroom. You can probably find a generic 12v power supply on ebay. 
Also make sure you're not plugging into the cab sim out.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Hm. So your signal chain is just guitar>P1 (being sure to use the preamp output in the center) > rocktron> Cabinet?
> 
> I would probably hate that chain too. First off your poweramp is not going to sound up to snuff compared to a 6505 poweramp. Even the latest Rocktron Mainline doesn’t come close imho.
> 
> ...


I have them, I was just hoping to avoid moving them back and forth between my main rig. 

It sounds pretty good with the boost, I'm just confused about some of the videos I'd seen and the tone they got with just the P1.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've heard some people say it does. It increases the headroom. You can probably find a generic 12v power supply on ebay.
> Also make sure you're not plugging into the cab sim out.


Would any 12v work? I might have one for charging a drill or something handy. 

And I've tried both outouts to make sure there wasn't some wiring messup.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Would any 12v work? I might have one for charging a drill or something handy.
> 
> And I've tried both outouts to make sure there wasn't some wiring messup.



Gotta mske sure it fits and is center negative.


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## Shask (Sep 14, 2018)

You can try the Mooer 005. I have never tried AMT, but I think the 005 is pretty good. No need for a boost or gate.


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## op1e (Sep 14, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I have them, I was just hoping to avoid moving them back and forth between my main rig.
> 
> It sounds pretty good with the boost, I'm just confused about some of the videos I'd seen and the tone they got with just the P1.



I had the same exact experience. I did not enjoy the P1 at all. Even boosted and running multiple gates it was hard to control the noise and flubby.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2018)

I must have gotten a good unit or something. My P2 was quiet and I didn't have any flub or anything. Never ran a boost. And I love tight tones, too.


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## Bearitone (Sep 14, 2018)

Wait a second... how high is your preamp volume?

You should try starting with the rocktron volume at almost full blast then very slowly roll in the P1 volume.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

For fun, I ran the P1 and Metal Zone direct into the interface with the same IR. Which one do you all think sounds better and which is which?

To make it fair, I ran the P1 from the preamp out, but the cabsim sounds pretty awful to me anyways.
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0MRBRbjdEWO


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 14, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Wait a second... how high is your preamp volume?
> 
> You should try starting with the rocktron volume at almost full blast then very slowly roll in the P1 volume.


I'll try this tomorrow at higher volumes, but it doesn't appear to make much of a difference at lower levels.

I set the preamp volume to be the same as my guitar going in dry, and it still sounded quite flubby.

I was thinking maybe I got a defective unit or something as I bought used, but I found an Ola video where he records direct in with the P1, matched his settings, and it sounded identical.


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## karnivorus (Sep 15, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> For fun, I ran the P1 and Metal Zone direct into the interface with the same IR. Which one do you all think sounds better and which is which?
> 
> To make it fair, I ran the P1 from the preamp out, but the cabsim sounds pretty awful to me anyways.
> https://vocaroo.com/i/s0MRBRbjdEWO



The first part is the metal zone, I recognize those annoying mids from a mile away.


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## Bearitone (Sep 15, 2018)

Um if that really is a metalzone i need to get one immediately


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 15, 2018)

kindsage said:


> Um if that really is a metalzone i need to get one immediately


I wouldn't mislead on the internet like that. 

I genuinely like the Metal Zone and it was my first metal distortion pedal, seems like it's having a bit of renaissance thanks to YouTubers.

Used as a preamp it's really not too bad, but I also find it needs a boost in front to get the sound I want.


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 15, 2018)

So...why in the name of profits and fandom does BOSS just not start selling the HM-2 again? Special Edition, Limited Run, Throwback Batch, whatever. Seems like they'd sell 10s of thousands of 80s tech. Hell, you can make special editions of the reissue, talk to Fender.


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## Shask (Sep 15, 2018)

The906 said:


> So...why in the name of profits and fandom does BOSS just not start selling the HM-2 again? Special Edition, Limited Run, Throwback Batch, whatever. Seems like they'd sell 10s of thousands of 80s tech. Hell, you can make special editions of the reissue, talk to Fender.


I am really supersized they haven't done a Waza version, with a classic mode, and a modern mode that includes some of the popular mods. They have done this for several other pedals.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 15, 2018)

The906 said:


> So...why in the name of profits and fandom does BOSS just not start selling the HM-2 again? Special Edition, Limited Run, Throwback Batch, whatever. Seems like they'd sell 10s of thousands of 80s tech. Hell, you can make special editions of the reissue, talk to Fender.


I have one of the Taiwan versions, it's amazing to see how much people are selling them for now. 

Used to be able to get em for $50 all the time.


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## Bearitone (Sep 15, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I wouldn't mislead on the internet like that.
> 
> I genuinely like the Metal Zone and it was my first metal distortion pedal, seems like it's having a bit of renaissance thanks to YouTubers.
> 
> Used as a preamp it's really not too bad, but I also find it needs a boost in front to get the sound I want.



Oh I’m not misleading. I actually bought one last night from guitar center used online. Should be here in a week


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 15, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> For fun, I ran the P1 and Metal Zone direct into the interface with the same IR. Which one do you all think sounds better and which is which?
> 
> To make it fair, I ran the P1 from the preamp out, but the cabsim sounds pretty awful to me anyways.
> https://vocaroo.com/i/s0MRBRbjdEWO



They both sound pretty killer! That P1 sounds REALLY f*ing great actually!



Shask said:


> I am really supersized they haven't done a Waza version, with a classic mode, and a modern mode that includes some of the popular mods. They have done this for several other pedals.



If Boss made Waza HM2 and MT2 models, they’d be among the biggest releases of the year! They’d fly off the bloody shelves!


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 15, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I must have gotten a good unit or something. My P2 was quiet and I didn't have any flub or anything. Never ran a boost. And I love tight tones, too.


What was your signal chain and settings? I guess I could try a P2 but I was the under the impression the drive sections were identical.

No matter what settings I use I can't coax out the sound I want if I don't use a boost.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 15, 2018)

Oops, double posted.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 15, 2018)

As I remember, the AMT Legend series 1 and 2 have identical drive channels. This was confirmed by AMT, I think. The series 2 had the extra clean channel and output option.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 16, 2018)

Yeah AMT told me the same... the LA1 and LA2 series are the same circuits. LA2 adds the clean channel and 3 outputs instead of 2. They both have the same +10dB of output gain, with LA2 having +8dB max boost on the clean channel.

They said the drive and drive mini circuits are similar, but not the same, but that may have been lost in translation (my Russian language skills have declined over the years apparently). The drives dont have cab sim either, as they are meant only to be used as clean amp drives and not preamps or DI. The P2 drive mini also adds a mid voice cut switch which i really like. The P2 is absolutely amazing with my Fryette PS2, and that is from someone who owns several Peavey and EVH amps. But i actually prefer the drive mini in the clean channel of my amps. I could probably tweak the P2 to get the same sound, but the mini sounds perfect right out of the box. I have other pedals I personally prefer, but if you want 5150 tone that certainly nails it IMO.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 16, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Yeah AMT told me the same... the LA1 and LA2 series are the same circuits. LA2 adds the clean channel and 3 outputs instead of 2. They both have the same +10dB of output gain, with LA2 having +8dB max boost on the clean channel.
> 
> They said the drive and drive mini circuits are similar, but not the same, but that may have been lost in translation (my Russian language skills have declined over the years apparently). The drives dont have cab sim either, as they are meant only to be used as clean amp drives and not preamps or DI. The P2 drive mini also adds a mid voice cut switch which i really like. The P2 is absolutely amazing with my Fryette PS2, and that is from someone who owns several Peavey and EVH amps. But i actually prefer the drive mini in the clean channel of my amps. I could probably tweak the P2 to get the same sound, but the mini sounds perfect right out of the box. I have other pedals I personally prefer, but if you want 5150 tone that certainly nails it IMO.



Yeah that’s exactly how I feel. There are pedals I personally prefer, like the Amptweaker TM. But if you want the 5150 tone, the AMT’s are that exact tone. I used one as a back up for my 5150 and it was *exact*.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 16, 2018)

After spending a couple of days messing with the P1, I've come away a bit more impressed.

It does do good job of emulating the 5150 tone, if you're using active pickups and a boost. To me, it was nearly unusable with passive pickups. With passives I found the low end flub was impossible to dial out, even with the low all the way down.

Once I was able to get a usable tone, the pedal feels like a proper preamp. Responds well to guitar volume changes and has some nice rich harmonics. It feels more natural than the Metal Zone I've been comparing it to.

My gripe with this pedal is that a new player might see the P1/2 as a 5150 in a pedal and get it hoping to record with the cab sim out. They probably wouldn't have a boost on hand or guitars with a variety of pickups to test. I guess it could sound alright in a mix, but I think you'd be much better off using a free VST amp like the Ignite Emissary.

I'm not sure if I'll keep it, gonna get one of the Tight Metal variants and see if it lives up to my probably too lofty expectations.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 16, 2018)

Even with my 7 string tuned to G I didn't feel like I needed a boost. And it had passive Agile pickups. 

I ran mine with several pedals in front (delay, modulations, Whammy, wah, and a tuner) and ran that straight into a TN torpedo live with power amp sims activated. Even with all those pedals contesting the signal I still never really got mud.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 16, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Even with my 7 string tuned to G I didn't feel like I needed a boost. And it had passive Agile pickups.
> 
> I ran mine with several pedals in front (delay, modulations, Whammy, wah, and a tuner) and ran that straight into a TN torpedo live with power amp sims activated. Even with all those pedals contesting the signal I still never really got mud.


ImI using an Agile 8 with the top 7 tuned to G and passive pickups and hated it. 

I guess the Torpedo Live could make that much of a difference, I don't feel like the Eminence Legends in my cab are known for muddy sound and they're probably my favorite speaker to pair with a 6505. 

We might just have different tastes in tone.


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## Bearitone (Sep 17, 2018)

https://www.airiseffects.com/store/p120/Beta's,_One-Off's.html

There’s also a “5150” Preamp on this page


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## USMarine75 (Sep 17, 2018)

Bentaycanada said:


> Yeah that’s exactly how I feel. There are pedals I personally prefer, like the Amptweaker TM. But if you want the 5150 tone, the AMT’s are that exact tone. I used one as a back up for my 5150 and it was *exact*.



Yup exactly! People always say oh if you like this then you'll like that = true. But... the amt pedals are exact. I have 5153, modded 5150s, a modded 5150 combo, had amps like the Cobra and Dragon, KPA/Line6/Axe-FX models... as well as an F-ton of pedals. But those AMT are exact toneprints of what they claim. And they play well with nearly every rig. And the drive mini are 60-70 new!


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## devastone (Sep 18, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Update on my search: the AMT P1 is quite a disappointment based on what I'd seen in videos.
> 
> It sounds alright, but there's a low end flub that's impossible to dial out, even when the bass is on 0.



What kind of cabinet are you going thru? Cabs and speakers make a huge difference and don't get enough credit.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 18, 2018)

devastone said:


> What kind of cabinet are you going thru? Cabs and speakers make a huge difference and don't get enough credit.


A Vader 212 with Eminence Legends. I mentioned before that I was able to fix the flub with a boost, I was just hoping to keep this setup simple since it's only for practice.

With the boost the P1 sounds great really. Even has some of the classic 5150 grainynes too. I might sell this one and try of the other Legends pedals, the D2 or E2 seem interesting.

At first I was using my OD808 and was pretty happy, but then I dug an old DigiTech Bad Monkey out of the spare gear box because it has separate low and high controls. Strangely enough I think the Bad Monkey sounds better because of the separate tone controls. And that allows me to keep the 808 with my main setup.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 18, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> A Vader 212 with Eminence Legends. I mentioned before that I was able to fix the flub with a boost, I was just hoping to keep this setup simple since it's only for practice.
> 
> With the boost the P1 sounds great really. Even has some of the classic 5150 grainynes too. I might sell this one and try of the other Legends pedals, the D2 or E2 seem interesting.
> 
> At first I was using my OD808 and was pretty happy, but then I dug an old DigiTech Bad Monkey out of the spare gear box because it has separate low and high controls. Strangely enough I think the Bad Monkey sounds better because of the separate tone controls. And that allows me to keep the 808 with my main setup.



I used to rock a Bad Monkey. I put it up against all of the high end Ibanez, Maxon, Fulltone, MXR overdrives and it beat the lot (IMO). That pedal is amazing!


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## Shask (Sep 18, 2018)

Bentaycanada said:


> I used to rock a Bad Monkey. I put it up against all of the high end Ibanez, Maxon, Fulltone, MXR overdrives and it beat the lot (IMO). That pedal is amazing!


I kind of wish I never sold the one I had. It was an early US made one!


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## Gmork (Sep 18, 2018)

Only thing the P2 is missing are the resonance/presence. Just need the new amptweaker depth finder which james of 5150 fame (incase u didnt already know) actually modelled after the res/pres of the 5150 and tunes it to match the resonance of v30s in a 4x12 cab.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 18, 2018)

Gmork said:


> Only thing the P2 is missing are the resonance/presence. Just need the new amptweaker depth finder which james of 5150 fame (incase u didnt already know) actually modelled after the res/pres of the 5150 and tunes it to match the resonance of v30s in a 4x12 cab.


Seems like a cool pedal concept. I hated my 6505 at first until I realized how much the res/pres changed the sound.

I don't know if I'm way off base here, but wouldn't getting a Sonic Maximizer be essentially the same effect? 

I always thought they sounded awful anytime I'd see someone using one live, but it seems like they're a glorified resonance/presence adjustment.


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## Gmork (Sep 19, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Seems like a cool pedal concept. I hated my 6505 at first until I realized how much the res/pres changed the sound.
> 
> I don't know if I'm way off base here, but wouldn't getting a Sonic Maximizer be essentially the same effect?
> 
> I always thought they sounded awful anytime I'd see someone using one live, but it seems like they're a glorified resonance/presence adjustment.


Sure u could use the maximiser, (i couldnt live without one myself before i got my TMP modded, and just recently ordered the depth finder) but thats the thing the depth finder was specifically made to emulate the 5150 res/pres by the guy who actually designed/built the 5150 itself while the maximizer was originally built as an exciter for PA and studio use.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 19, 2018)

Gmork said:


> Sure u could use the maximiser, (i couldnt live without one myself before i got my TMP modded, and just recently ordered the depth finder) but thats the thing the depth finder was specifically made to emulate the 5150 res/pres by the guy who actually designed/built the 5150 itself while the maximizer was originally built as an exciter for PA and studio use.


I just ordered a Tight Metal Pro. I'm gonna try it without the Depth Finder at first, my power amp has a presence control anyways. 

I'd probably prefer to get this one modded over the DF. My idea is to have a do it all pedal for my practice rig, and if I go jam I can just bring a guitar and the TMP with me. 

I'm pretty excited to try out the TMP. The video of the guy from Misery Index using his sold me on it.


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## Gmork (Sep 19, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I just ordered a Tight Metal Pro. I'm gonna try it without the Depth Finder at first, my power amp has a presence control anyways.
> 
> I'd probably prefer to get this one modded over the DF. My idea is to have a do it all pedal for my practice rig, and if I go jam I can just bring a guitar and the TMP with me.
> 
> I'm pretty excited to try out the TMP. The video of the guy from Misery Index using his sold me on it.


My main rig is comprised of my tmp with the res pres mod. Couldnt be happier.


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## Bearitone (Sep 19, 2018)

Honestly I’m pretty satisfied with mine too. For straight brutality it’s just great.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 19, 2018)

I used my old Sonic Stomp tonight with a Metal Muff and it is pretty awesome, but I can imagine the Amptweaker kills it dead.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 20, 2018)

I had really good Thai food tonight, but my wife had a much better calzone.


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## LeviathanKiller (Sep 20, 2018)

What?


USMarine75 said:


> I had really good Thai food tonight, but my wife had a much better calzone.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 20, 2018)

LeviathanKiller said:


> What?



Oh I thought we were comparing dissimilar things here and I wanted to play too.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 20, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Oh I thought we were comparing dissimilar things here and I wanted to play too.



What was dissimilar?


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## USMarine75 (Sep 20, 2018)

Bentaycanada said:


> What was dissimilar?



Metal Muff and Amptweaker.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 20, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Metal Muff and Amptweaker.



I wasn’t referring to that, I was referring to the Sonic Stomp and the new Amptweaker Depth/Presence control pedal. 

The latter made me dig out the BBE and I think the Amptweaker will kill it, as I have his Defizzerator and it’s amazing.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 24, 2018)

NPD: Got my Tight Metal Pro today. First impressions: it rules.

No flub present, can do tight metal (duh), to scooped death metal tones with ease. So far I've found it sounds best with the EQ at noon with maybe a slight mid bump, gain cranked, and the tight either off or around 9 o'clock. This is all with the TMP as a preamp into a solid state power amp.

The EQ is crazy responsive and I'm gonna need to mess with a bit to get it perfectly dialed in. I really love how the thrash switch works as well. Any EQ tips from the TMP owners out there?

The only negative I can think of is that to my surprise the gain is a little lacking without the boost engaged, even with the high gain switch on. Granted, I've only tried it with medium output passives, but I figured there'd be gobs of saturation on tap. I'm definitely glad I got the Pro version because otherwise I probably would have felt the need to run it with a boost. The built in boost works great though and gives me all the gain I need around 1 or 2 o'clock.

The TMP has opened my eyes a bit about how good a pedal can sound. Now I'm eyeballing an S&k VHD to complement it thanks to Gmork's videos.


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## USMarine75 (Sep 24, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> NPD: Got my Tight Metal Pro today. First impressions: it rules.
> 
> No flub present, can do tight metal (duh), to scooped death metal tones with ease. So far I've found it sounds best with the EQ at noon with maybe a slight mid bump, gain cranked, and the tight either off or around 9 o'clock. This is all with the TMP as a preamp into a solid state power amp.
> 
> ...



Wait until you try the Megalith Delta and the Custom Audio Art Fortis High Drive.


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## Bentaycanada (Sep 24, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Wait until you try the Megalith Delta and the Custom Audio Art Fortis High Drive.



That Megalith Delta is still on my list!


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## Bearitone (Sep 25, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Wait until you try the Megalith Delta and the Custom Audio Art Fortis High Drive.



God damnit more preamp pedal GAS. I thought I was going to get an S&K VHD and just be done!

Glad you mentioned the Megalith Delta. Checked out some demos and now I'm itching to get one on my board


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## mnemonic (Sep 25, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Even with my 7 string tuned to G I didn't feel like I needed a boost. And it had passive Agile pickups.
> 
> I ran mine with several pedals in front (delay, modulations, Whammy, wah, and a tuner) and ran that straight into a TN torpedo live with power amp sims activated. Even with all those pedals contesting the signal I still never really got mud.



Kind of off topic, but how did you find the power amp models in the torpedo? Have you compared it to a tube power amp?


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 29, 2018)

Useless update: after a week of messing with the TMP I'm blown away. Without the boost it has a lot of heft and there's just barely enough gain there for my taste. When not using the boost I think it benefits from the tight being turned up to noonish. With the boost activated I've rolled the boost gain back a lot to around 9-11 o'clock. This helps it retain clarity while adding the touch more saturation I'm looking for.

The thing I've been surprised the most with is the EQ on the pedal. It feels like Brown set up each parameter to adjust different parts of the mids rather than traditional bass, mids, and treble. For example, cranking up the low doesn't really add a lot of low end heft or thump. Instead, it seems to thicken up the lower mids.

I saw a comment he made here about how the high on the TMP works the same as the tone knob on the original Tight Metal. The high knob to my ears adjusts the upper mids and the lower treble more so than just the higher frequencies like other amps/pedals.

At first I thought the EQ response was weird, but it allows for a lot of customizing of the most important part of your sound. It also responds a lot like the 5150 in that adjusting one knob affects how the other settings react, classic passive EQ stuff.

I can see why people would want to add a resonance/presence adjustment as it could lack a bit of low end depending what you run it through. To me, it's perfect and would cut through a mix wonderfully, but I might get a depth finder for the hell of it.

I'm not sure how I feel about the mid scoop button. I find that it doesn't gut the mids enough to give me that early Dying Fetus sound I can get from my Peavey Supreme 160. Turning down the mids a ton takes away too much of the sound leaving it sounding empty, but I think an EQ pedal in the loop would get me that sound easily.

TLDR - the Tight Metal Pro is incredible.


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## Bearitone (Sep 29, 2018)

ATRguitar91 said:


> ...
> It feels like Brown set up each parameter to adjust different parts of the mids rather than traditional bass, mids, and treble.
> ...



I noticed the same thing! That’s why i originally sold off my TMP. The presence/depth mod helps you control the lower and higher ends of the spectrum


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## mnemonic (Sep 29, 2018)

Sounds like the Pro with the depth/presence would have a ton of eq control. As appetising as that is, I wonder if the regular Tight Metal with a graphic eq would be just as flexible.


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## ATRguitar91 (Sep 29, 2018)

mnemonic said:


> Sounds like the Pro with the depth/presence would have a ton of eq control. As appetising as that is, I wonder if the regular Tight Metal with a graphic eq would be just as flexible.


I don't know if a graphic EQ would give you the same effect as the resonance/presence controls, unless the frequencies were the same, but it would give you a lot of tone shaping options.

If you don't mind using a boost and EQ pedal, I'd say there's no reason to not get the original TM or the Jr aside from the extra loops. I wouldn't be completely happy with the Tight Metal unless I was boosting it. The Pro version appealed to me because it had everything I needed in one pedal. Simplicity was the goal.


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## Bled4bathor1 (Aug 10, 2022)

Bearitone said:


> Hm. So your signal chain is just guitar>P1 (being sure to use the preamp output in the center) > rocktron> Cabinet?
> 
> I would probably hate that chain too. Your poweramp isn’t going to sound up to snuff compared to a 6505 poweramp. Even the latest Rocktron Mainline doesnt come close imho. And then with no OD or gate i see why you aren’t liking your current tone
> 
> ...


And it also has a very LOW OUTPUT.making it a no-go.tet th Chinese Ceres 3chanbel preamp fir $100 and call it a day.this thing Is a beast.badass.period.i love china pedals clones.


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## Emperoff (Aug 10, 2022)

Bled4bathor1 said:


> And it also has a very LOW OUTPUT.making it a no-go.tet th Chinese Ceres 3chanbel preamp fir $100 and call it a day.this thing Is a beast.badass.period.i love china pedals clones.


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## Gmork (Aug 10, 2022)

Tightmetal jr 100%


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## Gmork (Aug 10, 2022)

Emperoff said:


>


Oh geez, didnt even notice  my answer still stands


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## narad (Aug 10, 2022)

"Some things refuse to die" -- the threads. But then what other things "come back afterwards"?


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## ATRguitar91 (Aug 10, 2022)

4 years later and a depth finder mod later: the Tight Metal Pro is still the absolute king. 

My current preamp lineup consists of: ISP Theta, Megalith Delta, Tight Metal Pro and Jr., SNK VHD, Master Effects Marauder, ME Martyr, KSR Ceres. The TMP is still the best and most amplike of them.


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## Emperoff (Aug 10, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> 4 years later and a depth finder mod later: the Tight Metal Pro is still the absolute king.
> 
> My current preamp lineup consists of: ISP Theta, Megalith Delta, Tight Metal Pro and Jr., SNK VHD, Master Effects Marauder, ME Martyr, KSR Ceres. The TMP is still the best and most amplike of them.



I've yet to try more a preamp that sounds as "amp-like" as Victory V4 series. And I've had a bunch (including some of those you mentioned). For pure 5150 tone the TMP is the one to go for, obviously.

The Dover GVP and the Koch Pedaltone are still in my bucket list if I can find them at sane prices. The Koch literally looks like an amp on the inside (transformers included).


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## Gmork (Aug 10, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I've yet to try more a preamp that sounds as "amp-like" as Victory V4 series. And I've had a bunch (including some of those you mentioned). For pure 5150 tone the TMP is the one to go for, obviously.
> 
> The Dover GVP and the Koch Pedaltone are still in my bucket list if I can find them at sane prices. The Koch literally looks like an amp on the inside (transformers included).


I dont know koch too well other than recognizing the logo, always assumed they were more of a light rock/blues brand. Any indication the pedaltone will do metal?
Im getting the feeling its the type of thing built for metal eople by someone who doesn't understand metal. Feel like it could be simplified a lot more as well, especially just to bring cost down.


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## Gmork (Aug 10, 2022)

Oh also i never hear anyone talk about this builder Inverted Cross Audio. He makes tons of really cool stuff!
His ICA-51 (5150 style preamp) has been on my radar the past couple years. Its sounds chewy and super aggressive and i really want to try it, bet itd be insane with a boost! Dying to get his multiFX pedal too!


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## Emperoff (Aug 10, 2022)

Gmork said:


> Im getting the feeling its the type of thing built for metal people by someone who doesn't understand metal. Feel like it could be simplified a lot more as well, especially just to bring cost down.



And where do you get the feeling it is made for metal people? And what _kind_ of metal? Because that may be the issue here. Metal can range from Black Sabbath to... You get the point.

As far as I know, it's the floor version of their Powertone amp. It is probably made to cover a wide range of styles while falling short of delivering for modern metal (since it was designed before it existed), which can probably be solved with the right overdrive in front (like pretty much any amp).

These videos will get you an idea:


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## Bearitone (Aug 10, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> 4 years later and a depth finder mod later: the Tight Metal Pro is still the absolute king.
> 
> My current preamp lineup consists of: ISP Theta, Megalith Delta, Tight Metal Pro and Jr., SNK VHD, Master Effects Marauder, ME Martyr, KSR Ceres. The TMP is still the best and most amplike of them.


Agreed. My TMPro is my go to for about 5 years now. Nothing, even other real amps can’t really touch it when it’s paired with a good poweramp. It’s basically my gold standard. 

I’m DYING to get a KSR PA50 to pair with the TMPro but, it’s just not in the budget yet.


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## ATRguitar91 (Aug 10, 2022)

Bearitone said:


> I’m DYING to get a KSR PA50 to pair with the TMPro but, it’s just not in the budget yet.


I'd definitely like to get my hands on one eventually, but I'm not sure the used prices will ever be in a range I'd be willing to go for. Besides, the TMP sounds great through my ancient Rocktron Velocity, so I don't have a real need for a full tube poweramp.


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## youngthrasher9 (Aug 10, 2022)

Bearitone said:


> Agreed. My TMPro is my go to for about 5 years now. Nothing, even other real amps can’t really touch it when it’s paired with a good poweramp. It’s basically my gold standard.
> 
> I’m DYING to get a KSR PA50 to pair with the TMPro but, it’s just not in the budget yet.


Long after I’ve abandoned preamp pedals, I still considering picking up a few and a power station 2 or 100.


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## Spinedriver (Aug 10, 2022)

Gmork said:


> I dont know koch too well other than recognizing the logo, always assumed they were more of a light rock/blues brand. Any indication the pedaltone will do metal?
> Im getting the feeling its the type of thing built for metal eople by someone who doesn't understand metal. Feel like it could be simplified a lot more as well, especially just to bring cost down.


I can't speak as to how accurate it is to the real thing but there's a Koch Powertone amp model on the Mooer PreAmp Live and with a boost, it can definitely do a 'metal' tone.


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## Kosthrash (Aug 12, 2022)

There is a "II" version by now of TMP, however I dunno if it sounds even better...









Tight Metal Pro II | amptweaker







amptweaker.com


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 12, 2022)

Kosthrash said:


> There is a "II" version by now of TMP, however I dunno if it sounds even better...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apparently sounds the same, just not built as good.


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## Shask (Aug 12, 2022)

I have built several different preamp pedals, but I recently finished a VH140C Preamp clone. I think it is one of my favorites I have built. It can do a good impersonation of that saturated, but not too fuzzy, 5150 style tone.


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