# Dark Celtic Scales or Style help?



## Soubi7string (Jun 20, 2010)

I would like to learn a more melancholic and I guess dark celtic sound but all the lessons I find are up beat and happy festival sounding
any help?


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 21, 2010)

What the hell is dark Celtic music? I'm imagining something between a leprechaun and Byron's Manfred. 

At any rate, Celtic music is based on the major scale, much like everything else in Western music. This means you have basically these scales to work with, depending on the effect you're going for:

Major
Natural Minor
Dorian
Mixolydian
Phrygian
Lydian
Locrian (probably not)
Harmonic minor (probably not in Celtic music, but reserve the effect)
Melodic minor (maybe)
Modes of harmonic/melodic minor
Altered forms of the minor (such as aeolian #4)

Any scale or chord by itself does not define a style of music, the style does that.


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## Soubi7string (Jun 21, 2010)

Sorry I meant like darker sounding Celtic sound


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## ShadyDavey (Jun 21, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Sorry I meant like darker sounding Celtic sound



There's no "Celtic Scale" if that's what you're asking 

It's a combination of the underlying chords and rhythm as much as anything - some of Thin Lizzy or Skyclad's darkest moments are nothing more than a driving 6/8 reel and an Aeolian mode...


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## Semi-pro (Jun 21, 2010)

...try harmonizing the melodic hooks with fifths?


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jun 21, 2010)

Dorian works to great effect. Though it's more on note emphasis rather than scale usage that can create the "dark Celtic" flavour. 

Some examples:


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 21, 2010)

Soubi7string said:


> Sorry I meant like darker sounding Celtic sound



I got that, but it's not like there's a "Celtic scale", "country bluegrass scale", "funk scale", or "national anthem scale". Like Dave said, your harmony and rhythm, as well as a huge number of other factors, defines the overall sound more than the scale that you use. That said, you'll probably find the sound you're looking for in the natural minor (also called the pure minor, aeolian mode, aeolian minor, or just plain minor) or dorian mode.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jun 21, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> I got that, but it's not like there's a "Celtic scale", "country bluegrass scale", "funk scale", or "national anthem scale". Like Dave said, your harmony and rhythm, as well as a huge number of other factors, defines the overall sound more than the scale that you use. That said, you'll probably find the sound you're looking for in the natural minor (also called the pure minor, aeolian mode, aeolian minor, or just plain minor) or dorian mode.


 
This.


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## DavyH (Jun 21, 2010)

'Celtic' = bagpipes to many, and plenty of the Scottish songs are taken from pipe tunes. The great highland bagpipe, Scottish smallpipe and chamber pipe, Irish war pipe, and bombarde scales all use a slightly modified myxolidian mode - over the 9-note scale running from G - high A, only the higher of the Gs is flattened (highland bagpipes tend to operate off a transposed scale in written notation. A more or less = Bb [where A = between 446Hz and 454Hz more or less]).

Most other Celtic pipes - Uilleann, Northumbrian, Galician, musette and whatnot - use an Aeolian scale.

Try versions of some of the more melancholy slow airs - The Dark Island, Mist Covered Mountains - to get the feel of it (as above, most of the slows are 6/8s, with very few exceptions).


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## Soubi7string (Jun 21, 2010)

DavyH said:


> 'Celtic' = bagpipes to many, and plenty of the Scottish songs are taken from pipe tunes. The great highland bagpipe, Scottish smallpipe and chamber pipe, Irish war pipe, and bombarde scales all use a slightly modified myxolidian mode - over the 9-note scale running from G - high A, only the higher of the Gs is flattened (highland bagpipes tend to operate off a transposed scale in written notation. A more or less = Bb [where A = between 446Hz and 454Hz more or less]).
> 
> Most other Celtic pipes - Uilleann, Northumbrian, Galician, musette and whatnot - use an Aeolian scale.
> 
> Try versions of some of the more melancholy slow airs - The Dark Island, Mist Covered Mountains - to get the feel of it (as above, most of the slows are 6/8s, with very few exceptions).



alright thanks 8D


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## Trespass (Jun 21, 2010)

When I think celtic music, I think mixolydian (play a lyrical melody in 6/8 in the mixolydian mode, very cheesy celtic sound). I also think Dorian. I think Dorian might be your best bet in terms of scales.

But if *I* were you, what I would do is learn several traditional irish tunes, immerse myself in the style and read the theory. The reharmonize the melody and chords to, say diminished. I recently wrote the music to a competition play. I took some typical circus themes and let them move along the diminished scale instead of whatever they were in - It was very effective.


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