# Protein- what's your daily intake?



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

Getting older, feeling like I lose gains quicker. Not a power lifter or anything but work out major muscle groups with a combo of body weight and dumbbells. Usually 4-6 sets to failure each time. 

So I remember 1g protein/lb body weight from way back. Then I read .7g/1lb body weight. Then I read .5 to .7g. Looking at lean mass, not getting a boiler gut. So for that I really like intermittent fasting. I'll jam it in into the window but what is my minimum target? Also, what do you guys intake on off days?


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

~250 g

1 lb ribeye, NY, or tbone/porterhouse (whatever is on sale) + 1 lb pork or cheap beef + 1 lb of chicken turkey or fish

Gut shrinks to nil or slightly expands depending on discipline...this thing works A LOT better if you avoid beer and carbs


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> ~250 g
> 
> 1 lb ribeye, NY, or tbone/porterhouse (whatever is on sale) + 1 lb pork or cheap beef + 1 lb of chicken turkey or fish


Intense


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

I do around 1.5g/kg daily. so around 170g daily. But I'm currently trying to bulk up more. 
I eat a lot of chicken/eggs/kefir/whey/quinoa/tuna. 

Red meat I eat more sparingly (like once a month), only because i want to see if I can do a cleaner bulk this time.

For just maintenance I'd say .7-1g/kg. 
.7g is pretty manageable for most people.


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

You're trying to bulk UP from 115 kg??


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> You're trying to bulk UP from 115 kg??


yes


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

Huh... I'm trying to drop back to <80 (~3 kg)


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> ~250 g
> 
> 1 lb ribeye, NY, or tbone/porterhouse (whatever is on sale) + 1 lb pork or cheap beef + 1 lb of chicken turkey or fish
> 
> Gut shrinks to nil or slightly expands depending on discipline...this thing works A LOT better if you avoid beer and carbs



That is absolutely unbelievable. Kudos to you if you are managing to get 250 grams a day. That is impressive.

According to myfitnesspal, I need to shoot for 146 g. I rarely get close even on days with multiple protein shakes.


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

Do you guys do the BCAA add-ons at all?


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Do you guys do the BCAA add-ons at all?


nah, if you're eating enough dairy/meat already you shouldn't need any supplementation


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Do you guys do the BCAA add-ons at all?



Yes I do bcaa’s pre and during workouts.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

I've tried a lot of supplements out of boredom. BCAA's don't do a darn thing in my experience. Most supplements don't do a darn thing

creatine gave me the worst stomach cramps I've ever had and I had a good water intake. 

The only thing I do now is protein and coffee.

I have had to cut my calories back big time after the covid lockdowns and I've dropped from 183-185lbs-ish down to 175 ish. I'll ramp it back up when I get back to the gym in a couple of weeks. 

The biggest I ever got was around 191lbs. (I'm 6ft). It was hard though. I ate completely clean, and I had to do it in 7-8 meals or else I couldn't get enough calories down. I won't go that big again, but 180-185 is manageable without too much fuss.

I can't remember my exact protein intake. It was more like 1.5 grams per pound or a little over. If I had carbs at recommended intake percentage, I'd pack on too much fat so I tend to keep my carb intake a bit lower unless I'm doing a lot of cardio. 

I think I was averaging around 4k calories when I was at 190lbs

I can do upper 2500-3000 and be at a good size. Not huge but strong. 

I'll need to dig up my old spread sheets for exact numbers. I do measure everything when I bulk. It's not too bad once you get used to it.

I do get soft if I don't keep up on some amount of cardio. 3 days a week used to do it, but if I want to really lean out I need to hit the cardio 5 days a week minimum.

As I've gotten older I did have to move to lifting 3 days a week vs 4-5 days a week. I just couldn't recover well enough hitting it 4-5. 3 is good. I still get stronger, and I'm not getting injured as much.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

At the end of the day it's mostly about calorie count. If you get 1gram of protein per lbs then you should be fine. Then if you want to bulk or cut it's just more/less about watching your overall calorie intake. 

If you really want to lean out though it'll take some cardio in whatever fashion you like to do.


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> creatine gave me the worst stomach cramps I've ever had and I had a good water intake.



This was the norm back in the day with that shitty EAS Phosphagen crap. If you haven't, you should try some of the buffered creatines like kre-alkalyn or magnapower.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> This was the norm back in the day with that shitty EAS Phosphagen crap. If you haven't, you should try some of the buffered creatines like kre-alkalyn or magnapower.



oh i haven't tried those. Mmmmm..... I may give those a go. I dunno. The last few times I tried creatine I felt like my insides were shredding apart lol I kinda have PTSD from it jk

I'll add that to my list and I may give it a go when i get back to lifting


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## MetalheadMC (Aug 6, 2021)

On average I'm around 250g daily. My weight generally stays between 250-255 morning to night regardless. 

I've had less at times and felt fine, and had more and felt like shit. It really comes down to how you're feeling recovered after said workouts. 

Like Bees said, it's mainly the calorie intake. To drop weight, lower the carbs, and add cardio. To gain, raise the carbs for simplicity.


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

MetalheadMC said:


> On average I'm around 250g daily. My weight generally stays between 250-255 morning to night regardless.
> 
> I've had less at times and felt fine, and had more and felt like shit. It really comes down to how you're feeling recovered after said workouts.
> 
> Like Bees said, it's mainly the calorie intake. To drop weight, lower the carbs, and add cardio. To gain, raise the carbs for simplicity.



That is a hell of a lot of food on a 40/30/30 macro split, but you also weigh 75 lbs more than me. What is a typical daily meal plan?


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## AwakenTheSkies (Aug 6, 2021)

Wow you guys must be huge, you eat so much protein! I eat 4 eggs a day religiously, meat, peanut butter, beans, etc. So that's not even 1g per kg. And people already tell me sometimes that my arms look the size of my head lol. But I'm like 5'9 and 170-180, and it's really hard for me to gain weight. If I started smoking again and stopped exercising I would go to like 140 lbs again. Tbh if I do too much protein it becomes hard to go to the bathroom. And creatine personally helps me have more energy/strenght when lifting. I don't do protein shakes or anything like that because I'm a cheap fuck hahaha


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> That is absolutely unbelievable. Kudos to you if you are managing to get 250 grams a day. That is impressive.
> 
> According to myfitnesspal, I need to shoot for 146 g. I rarely get close even on days with multiple protein shakes.



What's the challenge? Just eat 2+ lbs of good cuts of meat poultry or fish


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> What's the challenge? Just eat 2+ lbs of good cuts of meat poultry or fish



That's the challenge... I just can't do that!


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Wow you guys must be huge, you eat so much protein! I eat 4 eggs a day religiously, meat, peanut butter, beans, etc. So that's not even 1g per kg. And people already tell me sometimes that my arms look the size of my head lol. But I'm like 5'9 and 170-180, and it's really hard for me to gain weight. If I started smoking again and stopped exercising I would go to like 140 lbs again. Tbh if I do too much protein it becomes hard to go to the bathroom. And creatine personally helps me have more energy/strenght when lifting. I don't do protein shakes or anything like that because I'm a cheap fuck hahaha



Eggs? Peanut butter?

You trying to make the best use of all that money wasted on medical insurance before you check out early?


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## AwakenTheSkies (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Eggs? Peanut butter?
> 
> You trying to make the best use of all that money wasted on medical insurance before you check out early?



Hahah I don't pay any medical insurance, I'm in Spain. Free healthcare! Why do you think I'm going to die early? This is the only way that has given me results. There's big guys doing 10 egg omelettes regularly..It's all a bit of a lottery. Some people can have vices like smoking, drinking, eating unhealthy and live to 90, others make efforts to be healthy and die early. I'd rather not obsess with that..


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Hahah I don't pay any medical insurance, I'm in Spain. Free healthcare! Why do you think I'm going to die early? This is the only way that has given me results. There's big guys doing 10 egg omelettes regularly..It's all a bit of a lottery. Some people can have vices like smoking, drinking, eating unhealthy and live to 90, others make efforts to be healthy and die early. I'd rather not obsess with that..



It’s really incredible, isn’t it? I used to go to a gym with a guy that was in great shape, very healthy, and had a stroke at 42. The same day they took him in, a triathlete a few years younger was admitted with a stroke too but sadly passed that afternoon. My buddy recovered just fine after a few weeks.

Then I’ve worked out with guys that were absolutely jacked and shredded and lived off of pizza, beer, and Marlboro Lights. Go figure.

I just try to float somewhere in the middle, and give my body something bad every once in a while so it knows what’s up.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> It’s really incredible, isn’t it? I used to go to a gym with a guy that was in great shape, very healthy, and had a stroke at 42. The same day they took him in, a triathlete a few years younger was admitted with a stroke too but sadly passed that afternoon. My buddy recovered just fine after a few weeks.
> 
> Then I’ve worked out with guys that were absolutely jacked and shredded and lived off of pizza, beer, and Marlboro Lights. Go figure.
> 
> I just try to float somewhere in the middle, and give my body something bad every once in a while so it knows what’s up.


There are lots of other reasons people end up having issues like that eg genetic predisposition, steroid usage, chronic stress, etc. Honestly genetics is the main thing. Some people just have narrower arteries and a higher likelihood of atherosclerosis/stroke, regardless of how hard they work out/eat well.
Diet is secondary and avoiding salted/cured meats and frozen/prepared foods mitigates high blood pressure/ stroke/etc to an extent.


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> It’s really incredible, isn’t it? I used to go to a gym with a guy that was in great shape, very healthy, and had a stroke at 42. The same day they took him in, a triathlete a few years younger was admitted with a stroke too but sadly passed that afternoon. My buddy recovered just fine after a few weeks.
> 
> Then I’ve worked out with guys that were absolutely jacked and shredded and lived off of pizza, beer, and Marlboro Lights. Go figure.
> 
> I just try to float somewhere in the middle, and give my body something bad every once in a while so it knows what’s up.



Was the 42 yo stroke guy maybe experimenting with various chemical shortcuts?


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Was the 42 yo stroke guy maybe experimenting with various chemical shortcuts?



No, very clean and healthy guy. They ruled out genetics/family history. I will say this, and he said this too: He drank 2 of the big screw top can Monsters every day, and the doctors are strongly leaning toward that as the culprit.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Tbh if I do too much protein it becomes hard to go to the bathroom....



lol this is true. If you don't get enough fiber and whatnot and have a high protein diet, it turns into messy poops real quick. hahaha


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

Yeah a small, unnoticed thin spot on the wall of a brain vessel gives out after 40 or 50 years. Poof.


Going to have a double half pound burger for lunch. No fries and unsweetened ice tea.


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## Drew (Aug 6, 2021)

Hey, question I've always wondered, and without having a more specialized (i.e - cycling) audience to ask, you all are probably the best bet. 

As an endurance athlete, with no interest in bulking up (quite the reverse, if I were 10-15lbs lighter than I am now at my current power output I'd be a fucking monster), and mostly interested in building sustained power output over time (my sprint power is pretty good, wouldn't mind it being higher, but then again for a weightlifter even a 15-second interval is probably on the longer end, much less something like a five minute, twenty minute, or hour long interval), is there any point at all to protein supplements? 

I've been using a Skratch Labs recovery drink after harder workouts mostly because their horchata mix is fucking delicious, but it's primarily intended to provide some protein while getting your blood sugar back up to a normal realm after depleting it, and honestly if the protein itself isn't especially important for an endurance athlete whose primary goal is maximizing power output to weight, then it's a heck of a lot cheaper just to crack a root beer after a ride, than to mix up a $33-for-12-servings shake.


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> No, very clean and healthy guy. They ruled out genetics/family history. I will say this, and he said this too: He drank 2 of the big screw top can Monsters every day, and the doctors are strongly leaning toward that as the culprit.



Aww damn I live off that crap

Any idea if he was doing anything that was "asking for it", like trying to run a marathon or staying up for a week? Or just regularly chugging his monsters and going about his day?


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

Drew said:


> Hey, question I've always wondered, and without having a more specialized (i.e - cycling) audience to ask, you all are probably the best bet.
> 
> As an endurance athlete, with no interest in bulking up (quite the reverse, if I were 10-15lbs lighter than I am now at my current power output I'd be a fucking monster), and mostly interested in building sustained power output over time (my sprint power is pretty good, wouldn't mind it being higher, but then again for a weightlifter even a 15-second interval is probably on the longer end, much less something like a five minute, twenty minute, or hour long interval), is there any point at all to protein supplements?
> 
> I've been using a Skratch Labs recovery drink after harder workouts mostly because their horchata mix is fucking delicious, but it's primarily intended to provide some protein while getting your blood sugar back up to a normal realm after depleting it, and honestly if the protein itself isn't especially important for an endurance athlete whose primary goal is maximizing power output to weight, then it's a heck of a lot cheaper just to crack a root beer after a ride, than to mix up a $33-for-12-servings shake.



Why would you want your blood sugar up after an endurance workout? Screw that, keep it the hell down unless you're about to pass the f out

My distance is 10k interval sprints, my performance is far far better if I stay away from carbs entirely. Ribeye fuels better results than carbs.

After workout - iced salted lemon water, light protein meal (~12 oz fish or chicken) couple hours later.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

Drew said:


> Hey, question I've always wondered, and without having a more specialized (i.e - cycling) audience to ask, you all are probably the best bet.
> 
> As an endurance athlete, with no interest in bulking up (quite the reverse, if I were 10-15lbs lighter than I am now at my current power output I'd be a fucking monster), and mostly interested in building sustained power output over time (my sprint power is pretty good, wouldn't mind it being higher, but then again for a weightlifter even a 15-second interval is probably on the longer end, much less something like a five minute, twenty minute, or hour long interval), is there any point at all to protein supplements?
> 
> I've been using a Skratch Labs recovery drink after harder workouts mostly because their horchata mix is fucking delicious, but it's primarily intended to provide some protein while getting your blood sugar back up to a normal realm after depleting it, and honestly if the protein itself isn't especially important for an endurance athlete whose primary goal is maximizing power output to weight, then it's a heck of a lot cheaper just to crack a root beer after a ride, than to mix up a $33-for-12-servings shake.


Protein intake is useful regardless of whether you're focusing on endurance or strength output. For endurance sports you're trying to mitigate catabolysis (fancy way of saying the body cannibalizes muscle) and maintain/promote anabolic (muscle growth) states, same as the rest of us. The real question is whether you're pushing yourself to a point where that's more likely to happen (also not eating as much as you need will lead to catabolysis). Most of the data I've seen is pushing whole foods (eg dairy like cottage cheese or such) or a casein based derivative as being the best option tbh.
https://www.nutrition.org.uk/health...le/eating-for-sport-and-exercise.html?start=2
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0157406
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33384615/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27899900/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28642676/


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

Drew said:


> Hey, question I've always wondered, and without having a more specialized (i.e - cycling) audience to ask, you all are probably the best bet.
> 
> As an endurance athlete, with no interest in bulking up (quite the reverse, if I were 10-15lbs lighter than I am now at my current power output I'd be a fucking monster), and mostly interested in building sustained power output over time (my sprint power is pretty good, wouldn't mind it being higher, but then again for a weightlifter even a 15-second interval is probably on the longer end, much less something like a five minute, twenty minute, or hour long interval), is there any point at all to protein supplements?
> 
> I've been using a Skratch Labs recovery drink after harder workouts mostly because their horchata mix is fucking delicious, but it's primarily intended to provide some protein while getting your blood sugar back up to a normal realm after depleting it, and honestly if the protein itself isn't especially important for an endurance athlete whose primary goal is maximizing power output to weight, then it's a heck of a lot cheaper just to crack a root beer after a ride, than to mix up a $33-for-12-servings shake.




I would say yes on if there's a point to protein. You need muscle for power. Muscle takes protein. Track and field athletes/sprinters most definitely hit their daily protein and calorie intake. They do lift as well. I'd say every athlete on a pro level lifts to come degree too, or does some kind of resistance training.


TL: DR: protein is the foundation/the building block. It's probably most important to get that. The other stuff can fluctuate a bit more.


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## MetalheadMC (Aug 6, 2021)

Protein is essential for recovery plain and simple. You don't necessarily need 1g/lb of bodyweight and so forth. Just as long as you feel that you're recovering from what you're doing. Coupled with other proper rest methods too of course


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## MetalheadMC (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> That is a hell of a lot of food on a 40/30/30 macro split, but you also weigh 75 lbs more than me. What is a typical daily meal plan?



Normal day 
Breakfast 
2 scoops of protein
Banana or some small amount of carbs

Meal 1 
8oz 90/10 beef
1.5 cups of white rice

Meal 2
Same as 1

Meal 3 
Same as 1

Meal 4
Post workout Same as Breakfast 

Meal 5
Dinner is a wildcard. Not too picky as long as I eat. 

My diet isn't super clean as I was eating for strength and not to be shredded. I'll add small sugars here and there just for more calories. 

Biggest thing I did was swapping from chicken to beef. Beef has more calories and fat that chicken doesn't. So that helped initially. If I get burned out on beef, which I do, i swap to chicken for a while and add peanut butter, or peanuts for fats.


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Aww damn I live off that crap
> 
> Any idea if he was doing anything that was "asking for it", like trying to run a marathon or staying up for a week? Or just regularly chugging his monsters and going about his day?



He got up at 5 and would run 3 miles before even lifting. He did do runs, half marathons, stuff like that. Come to think of it, his husband was a few years older and pretty damn huge, so I never thought about it but it wouldn't surprise me if he dabbled in the gear (the husband possibly). The were both very short haired to bald and I will sometimes look for male pattern baldness to try to gauge what kind of stuff they're using. But I still would highly doubt he would use but man you never know these days. I see out of shape as shit guys on cycles.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> He got up at 5 and would run 3 miles before even lifting. He did do runs, half marathons, stuff like that. Come to think of it, his husband was a few years older and pretty damn huge, so I never thought about it but it wouldn't surprise me if he dabbled in the gear (the husband possibly). The were both very short haired to bald and I will sometimes look for male pattern baldness to try to gauge what kind of stuff they're using. But I still would highly doubt he would use but man you never know these days. I see out of shape as shit guys on cycles.


there is also newer gens of gear that don't adversely affect hair growth like sarms (at least in smaller cycles). All of that shit is questionable at the dosages some of these broscientists are using them though


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> there is also newer gens of gear that don't adversely affect hair growth like sarms (at least in smaller cycles). All of that shit is questionable at the dosages some of these broscientists are using them though



Well sign me up! I need to get a little bigger and stronger than my wife, her myfitnesspal says she needs 159 g of protein a day!


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

MetalheadMC said:


> Normal day
> Breakfast
> 2 scoops of protein
> Banana or some small amount of carbs
> ...



I figured it was going to look something like that, but I thought breakfast was going to be 6 eggs, 6 egg whites and I thought dessert was going to be a whole container of fat free cottage cheese!


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> lol this is true. If you don't get enough fiber and whatnot and have a high protein diet, it turns into messy poops real quick. hahaha



Maltitol sugarfree chocolate from Trader Joe's

It'll make anything poop


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

My regular morning breakfast was a homemade weight gainer shake

1 serving oats
1 banana
1 serving of blue berries
2 spoons of peanut butter

1 scoop (or a scoop and 1/2) of protein in 2 cups of milk

Sometimes I'd put cinnamon in it, and/or sweet n low or ...gasp! sugar depending on how I felt.

I think it rounded out at around 700+ calories, but I can't remember. It was pretty tasty.

I sometimes would separate the milk/protein and the other stuff separately. Downing all that in a shake really fast would sometimes make my stomach hurt lol


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## Adieu (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> He got up at 5 and would run 3 miles before even lifting. He did do runs, half marathons, stuff like that. Come to think of it, his husband was a few years older and pretty damn huge, so I never thought about it but it wouldn't surprise me if he dabbled in the gear (the husband possibly). The were both very short haired to bald and I will sometimes look for male pattern baldness to try to gauge what kind of stuff they're using. But I still would highly doubt he would use but man you never know these days. I see out of shape as shit guys on cycles.



Baldness is sometimes just baldness

My dad's bald, my grandpa was bald, and I'm getting bald too. Simple as that.

...then again, I haven't stepped inside a gym in 15 years, so there's that sliiiight difference.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> I figured it was going to look something like that, but I thought breakfast was going to be 6 eggs, 6 egg whites and I thought dessert was going to be a whole container of fat free cottage cheese!



ha yeah, I can't do cottage cheese. I should, but the taste is just...bleh. I can't.

I do try to get my carbs in earlier in the day and less at night. So that's why morning is so heavy.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Baldness is sometimes just baldness
> 
> My dad's bald, my grandpa was bald, and I'm getting bald too. Simple as that.
> 
> ...then again, I haven't stepped inside a gym in 15 years, so there's that sliiiight difference.




I started going bald at 24. My grandpa on my mom's side went bald at like 21. ...No one else in my family went bald early in life. -_____-

I blame VFX though. I had a full head of hair until I got my first job in vfx. Then the stress and the crazy hours = boom.. instant baldness. (there are a LOT of bald people in my industry due to the stress I think lol)


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## jaxadam (Aug 6, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> ha yeah, I can't do cottage cheese. I should, but the taste is just...bleh. I can't.
> 
> I do try to get my carbs in earlier in the day and less at night. So that's why morning is so heavy.



This is going to sound crazy, but I used to mix cottage cheese with peanut butter, cocoa powder, and a dash of vanilla extract.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> This is going to sound crazy, but I used to mix cottage cheese with peanut butter, cocoa powder, and a dash of vanilla extract.




I kid you not. I have tried peanut butter and cocoa. I still could not. ha I've never tried adding vanilla though. Maybe that's the missing spice I needed


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Maltitol sugarfree chocolate from Trader Joe's
> 
> It'll make anything poop


Also Dr Tobias' Colon will bring the BR00tz.


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 6, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> This is going to sound crazy, but I used to mix cottage cheese with peanut butter, cocoa powder, and a dash of vanilla extract.


Yes! I like this


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## Kaura (Aug 6, 2021)

Chicken wings


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## Blytheryn (Aug 6, 2021)

280g. My bulking macros right now are 500C/100F/280P. Which is roughly 4K. I’m 6’4 200lbs ish.

I usually have all my food eaten by 4PM and I’m starving for the rest of the day. The protein requirement is the easiest to nail.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 6, 2021)

Geez, I never was able to enough in one sitting to get 4k calories down to a reasonable amount of meals not to mention being even remotely close to doing it all before 4pm. That's crazy ha


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## Blytheryn (Aug 7, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> 280g.





thebeesknees22 said:


> Geez, I never was able to enough in one sitting to get 4k calories down to a reasonable amount of meals not to mention being even remotely close to doing it all before 4pm. That's crazy ha



well let’s see, I do like 2lbs of cottage cheese with some like drink concentrate the first thing I do when I wake up for the first 110g of protein first thing, then add rice cakes and peanut butter.

next two meals are 1,3lbs of chicken breast and 6 cups of rice cumulatively. That usually gets me up to around the ballpark of 4K. If myfitnesspal says I need more carbs or calories for that day I just add shit like muffins or granola bars. Protein shake after my workout too.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 7, 2021)

holy moly

You lost me at cottage cheese though. haha I can't do it!


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## Adieu (Aug 7, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> well let’s see, I do like 2lbs of cottage cheese with some like drink concentrate the first thing I do when I wake up for the first 110g of protein first thing, then add rice cakes and peanut butter.
> 
> next two meals are 1,3lbs of chicken breast and 6 cups of rice cumulatively. That usually gets me up to around the ballpark of 4K. If myfitnesspal says I need more carbs or calories for that day I just add shit like muffins or granola bars. Protein shake after my workout too.



Shit... that's like the western version of the sumo diet

I'd weight 350 lb if I ate like that


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## Blytheryn (Aug 7, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> holy moly
> 
> You lost me at cottage cheese though. haha I can't do it!



It’s not exactly “cottage cheese”. It’s this stuff we have in Sweden called kvarg. It’s got the consistency of Greek yoghurt, if maybe a little drier, hence why I add a zero calorie drink mix for flavor. It tastes so good I barely register I’ve eaten two tubs of 500g.



Adieu said:


> Shit... that's like the western version of the sumo diet
> 
> I'd weight 350 lb if I ate like that



Well, I lift 5-6 days a week without fail, and I’m trying to put on some mass. I also work 9h days. So I figure the food is going somewhere.


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## Drew (Aug 9, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Why would you want your blood sugar up after an endurance workout? Screw that, keep it the hell down *unless you're about to pass the f out*


I'll go out and burn anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 calories on the type of ride I'm describing, and on rare occasions Strava has estimated I've gone over 7,000. Yes, I'm 100% about the pass the F out.  We're not talking about getting your blood sugar from neutral to elevated, we're talking about getting sugar back into your blood, period.  



KnightBrolaire said:


> Protein intake is useful regardless of whether you're focusing on endurance or strength output. For endurance sports you're trying to mitigate catabolysis (fancy way of saying the body cannibalizes muscle) and maintain/promote anabolic (muscle growth) states, same as the rest of us. The real question is whether you're pushing yourself to a point where that's more likely to happen (also not eating as much as you need will lead to catabolysis). Most of the data I've seen is pushing whole foods (eg dairy like cottage cheese or such) or a casein based derivative as being the best option tbh.
> https://www.nutrition.org.uk/health...le/eating-for-sport-and-exercise.html?start=2
> https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0157406
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33384615/
> ...


Thanks, this is helpful - I'll do some reading.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 9, 2021)

Pretty wild that people here are casually suggesting eating lbs of meat each day when you can just have a 2 scoop whey isolate shake and it's like 60g protein and only 240-280 cals. Overall protein intake for me daily depends on what I'm doing. The last year or so it's been down due to gyms being closed and me being 30lbs lighter than normal, now that things are opened back up I'm getting around 200 grams a day (6'4" 205lbs this morning) on a moderate bulk.

If you'll do anything for gains, do what Markus Ruhl did and blend water, rice cakes, and tuna like a psychopath:


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## CovertSovietBear (Aug 10, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> It’s this stuff we have in Sweden called kvarg.



I can eat tubs of cottage cheese and other milk products so I'm going to see if I can get this kvarg locally.


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## Blytheryn (Aug 10, 2021)

CovertSovietBear said:


> I can eat tubs of cottage cheese and other milk products so I'm going to see if I can get this kvarg locally.



I’m sure it’s possible. Otherwise a really high protein/low fat Greek yoghurt is comparable. It makes getting down the first 100g of protein per day super easy.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 10, 2021)

CovertSovietBear said:


> I can eat tubs of cottage cheese and other milk products so I'm going to see if I can get this kvarg locally.


Make your own Kefir. Super easy to do and it's very high protein, plus it blends well with protein powder/fruit, etc. Otherwise see if you can get Fage yogurt. Their greek yogurt is the highest protein on the market by far.


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## Blytheryn (Aug 10, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Make your own Kefir. Super easy to do and it's very high protein, plus it blends well with protein powder/fruit, etc. Otherwise see if you can get Fage yogurt. Their greek yogurt is the highest protein on the market by far.



Holy shit that is some seriously roided Greek yoghurt.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 10, 2021)

Blytheryn said:


> Holy shit that is some seriously roided Greek yoghurt.


yup. When I get sick of kefir I mix fage into my smoothies/ eat it with oatmeal, and use it in lieu of most other bases for sauces too. Easy way to guarantee you're getting shitloads of protein.


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 12, 2021)

Thanks for your guy's sharing. 

Hey I have a question on plant proteins sources, which I really don't do much when I think about it. 

I heard popcorn is a "complete" protein but I also remember hearing you can't get truly complete proteins from a single plant source. I didn't want to argue with the guy growing the stuff. 

Also, rice + beans = complete proteins? Remember hearing that too, ancient diets and all that.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 12, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Thanks for your guy's sharing.
> 
> Hey I have a question on plant proteins sources, which I really don't do much when I think about it.
> 
> ...


here's a basic overview:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/essential-amino-acids#sources-and-intake
Complete protein sources include:


Meat
Seafood
Poultry
Eggs
Dairy Products
Soy, quinoa and buckwheat are plant-based foods that contain all nine essential amino acids, making them complete protein sources as well .

Other plant-based sources of protein like beans and nuts are considered incomplete, as they lack one or more of the essential amino acids.


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## Adieu (Aug 12, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Thanks for your guy's sharing.
> 
> Hey I have a question on plant proteins sources, which I really don't do much when I think about it.
> 
> ...



Almost, but not quite

Mexican food (rice, beans, corn) is nutritionally sufficient complete proteins if you go veg... pretty sure I read somewhere corn was part of the formula to avoid deficiencies of some important something-or-other

Also, afaik, buckwheat is pretty good (and provides a liveable ~80 g / 2k kcals or a workable 120 g / 3k kcals). Just dump in water in a 2:1 ratio and nuke it for 20 mins, then add butter or oil or onions or salsa or something to taste.


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## Adieu (Aug 12, 2021)

Drew said:


> I'll go out and burn anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 calories on the type of ride I'm describing, and on rare occasions Strava has estimated I've gone over 7,000. Yes, I'm 100% about the pass the F out.  We're not talking about getting your blood sugar from neutral to elevated, we're talking about getting sugar back into your blood, period.
> 
> 
> Thanks, this is helpful - I'll do some reading.



How do you calculate this?

And, from what you know, how does the workout you're describing compare to a 10k run with hard sprints?


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## Choop (Aug 12, 2021)

I'm doing some weight training stuff right now, so I try to do the general rule of 1g per 1lb body weight. ~170-180g a day ideally is what I take in (though I do keep it loose and will get less than that pretty often, closer to the .7 most likely but it varies). I was using an app to track my macros, and it's not so bad to hit the protein intake as much as it is to watch my fats intake. Ughhhh.


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## Drew (Aug 12, 2021)

Adieu said:


> How do you calculate this?
> 
> And, from what you know, how does the workout you're describing compare to a 10k run with hard sprints?


I ride with a power meter, so my Garmin head unit has a very accurate measurement of kilojoule output. I haven't actually spent a lot of time reading how they go from that to calories burned, an there's clearly a bit of modeling going on to account for baseline metabolic function and whatnot, but I'd say the data I'm getting is about as good as I'm going to get outside of a lab. Generally output in kilojoules ties out closely, but not exactly, to estimated calories burned, for whatever it's worth.

As a _very_ broad rule of thumb, I've found that on non-interval workout rides I probably burn something like 600-800 calories an hour, up to about 1,000 for threshold work where I'm not expecting to be able to hold the pace/output for much longer than an hour. So, the biggest ride I've done on Strava with an actual power meter (Strava has an alogorithm to estimate calories burned without one, but while it seems to be in the right ballpark, it's definitely less precise) was nearly 10 hours and 165 miles from my place in Boston up to central Vermont, with an estimated output of 6,295kJ and estimated calories burned of 6,305.

As to how that compares in difficulty to a 10k with sprint intervals... I mean, they're radically different workouts, I'm hardly a great runner myself but I could get up to a sub-60-minute 10k with a little bit of ramp up time, mostly just to get my legs used to a different set of motions (DOMS kicks my ass when I start running when I haven't run in a while). I'd guess, though, based on the fact that a one-hour threshold ride for me is about a thousand calories, if you and I are similar sizes (6', 185) then absent any actual data to work with I'd guess that's about a thousand calorie workout, too?

But, like, when I say endurance, I mean endurance.  I'm talking 3-5 hour strenuous rides for the most part when I'm running up these sorts of calorie deficits, occasionally well beyond that. That one up to VT from here, when I rolled into the hotel I was staying at a little after dark, I was crashing so hard my peripherial vision was getting hazy, I was extremely light headed, and since I'm a dumbass and decided I needed to take a celebratory shower beer up to my room with me to get cleaned up before eating something and promptly crashed so hard I was too nauseous to really eat and had to take my dinner back to m room to go. It was NOT pretty.  I keep a couple cans of root beer in the house for those days, just so in an emergency I can get some sugar back into my bloodstream after completely cracking and hitting a point where I'm too nauseous to really eat.

EDIT - the real problem with that165 miler, come to think of it, was I fell behind on nutrition early on (I was planning on eating a Gu packet once an hour, and stopped three hours and 65 miles in feeling pretty weak for some reason, to get more water and refuel a little, and when I went to empty out my jersey pockets, realized I'd only eaten two, not three, at 100 calories each), spent the next two or three hours trying to dig myself out of that hole, and 20 miles from the end, almost stopped to buy something else to eat, thought "no, I can muscle through another 20, and I want to beat nightfall," and didn't realize until I hit the base of it that miles 10 to go through 5 to go were a giant climb with 1,000 feet plus of vertical elevation gain. I blew up HARD getting to the top of that, and I don't think I've ever put myself so deeply in the hole.


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## Adieu (Aug 12, 2021)

Yup, like 98-99% same size actually

Feels like a lot more than 1000 kcals though... but I have a very odd grossly inefficient high burn / easy gain metabolism (alas, it's easy muscles but also easy gut)


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## Seabeast2000 (Aug 12, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Almost, but not quite
> 
> Mexican food (rice, beans, corn) is nutritionally sufficient complete proteins if you go veg... pretty sure I read somewhere corn was part of the formula to avoid deficiencies of some important something-or-other
> 
> Also, afaik, buckwheat is pretty good (and provides a liveable ~80 g / 2k kcals or a workable 120 g / 3k kcals). Just dump in water in a 2:1 ratio and nuke it for 20 mins, then add butter or oil or onions or salsa or something to taste.



That's it, corn. Corn and beans was the mix I remember being told about while at Montezuma's Castle.


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## thraxil (Aug 13, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> That's it, corn. Corn and beans was the mix I remember being told about while at Montezuma's Castle.



There used to be (and I guess still is) a very popular myth that you needed to eat "complementary proteins" at each meal (eg, eating corn and beans together). That originated in a 1971 book "_Diet for a Small Planet"_ by Frances Moore Lappé. The idea got picked up in an article in Vogue magazine in 1975 and became very popular. There was no evidence backing it though and Lappé issued a retraction, but that didn't spread as widely as the original idea.


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## Anquished (Aug 13, 2021)

I'm on about 200g per day, trying to bulk up from 88kg to 96kg to hit the next category for Weightlifting.


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## Drew (Aug 13, 2021)

Adieu said:


> Yup, like 98-99% same size actually
> 
> Feels like a lot more than 1000 kcals though... but I have a very odd grossly inefficient high burn / easy gain metabolism (alas, it's easy muscles but also easy gut)


I mean, for what it's worth, I'm not much of a runner at all, but I've done the occasional 5 and 10k here and there. My fastest paced 10k - actually just shy at about 6.01 miles per my Garmin watch - was a 9:11 pace in 55:12, which for me was about all out race pace, if not intervals. Strava estimates, using their running alorithm which I'm sure includes things like height and weight, as well as running pace, gradient, and heart rate, had me at about 728 calories. 

I suspect it's _very _hard to burn more than a thousand calories an hour.


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## Adieu (Aug 13, 2021)

thraxil said:


> There used to be (and I guess still is) a very popular myth that you needed to eat "complementary proteins" at each meal (eg, eating corn and beans together). That originated in a 1971 book "_Diet for a Small Planet"_ by Frances Moore Lappé. The idea got picked up in an article in Vogue magazine in 1975 and became very popular. There was no evidence backing it though and Lappé issued a retraction, but that didn't spread as widely as the original idea.



Not EVERY meal... but the problem of modern DIY nutrition is that we lose the logic behind traditional folk cuisines

Such things like how you'll get sick if you subsist on Mexican ingredients but skip the corn, or meat and potatoes being "excellent" for creating weight gain (traditionally very sensible use of resources, these days maybe not such a good thing), or most "spices" in Indian cuisine actually being herbal remedies for endemic parasites and diseases

If you mix and match random fairly healthy things from different traditions to taste, you can screw up pretty hard


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## MFB (Aug 13, 2021)

Boy howdy does this thread make me feel bad, I only eat one meal a day and do a protein shake for lunch, so that's at least 30G of protein right there but I honestly can't imagine my daily intake being higher than 60G at most


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## Blytheryn (Aug 13, 2021)

MFB said:


> Boy howdy does this thread make me feel bad, I only eat one meal a day and do a protein shake for lunch, so that's at least 30G of protein right there but I honestly can't imagine my daily intake being higher than 60G at most



Unless you’re doing some really athletic shit, or lifting seriously, I don’t think you really need to be up there.


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## jaxadam (Aug 17, 2021)

For dem nighttime gainz breh. Protein pudding.







I like a lot of their products. Just came across this one. We used to get another "protein pudding" made by Body Nutrition, but it is impossible to find now.

My wife actually uses it mostly in pancake mix for our kids in the morning, then we'll be getting them on those trenbologna sandwiches soon.


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## Drew (Sep 30, 2021)

Adieu said:


> How do you calculate this?
> 
> And, from what you know, how does the workout you're describing compare to a 10k run with hard sprints?


By the way, bumping this because an ex-pro cyclist I follow on Instagram was going after the fastest known time for a 430 mile course with something like 45,000 feet of climbing (which is ludicrous), and while I don't know what his official elapsed time was or if he set it, he was out in the saddle for two days, plus or minus a couple hours at either end, with three hours of sleep and the occasional stop for food.

A little earlier today he posted a picture of a couple of awesome-looking take-out pizzas with a comment to the effect of "Just burned 25,000 calories, don't mind if I do."

So, while that's, ahem, not a _normal_ amount of riding for any sane person to do, that's kinda what I was getting at that for cycling most post-ride protein supplements are also focused on replenishment and not just getting as much protein as you can into your body.

EDIT - that also kind of explains my original question fairly well, I think - pretty clearly, the metabolic demands of endurance cycling are quite a bit different from weight lifting, which is where I see protein discussed the most. 

EDIT #2 - Unrelatedly, is anyone else bothered, and constantly correcting the misspelling, by the fact that "protein" violates the age-old "I before E except after C" mantra?


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## Bevo (Nov 26, 2021)

Drew said:


> Hey, question I've always wondered, and without having a more specialized (i.e - cycling) audience to ask, you all are probably the best bet.
> 
> As an endurance athlete, with no interest in bulking up (quite the reverse, if I were 10-15lbs lighter than I am now at my current power output I'd be a fucking monster), and mostly interested in building sustained power output over time (my sprint power is pretty good, wouldn't mind it being higher, but then again for a weightlifter even a 15-second interval is probably on the longer end, much less something like a five minute, twenty minute, or hour long interval), is there any point at all to protein supplements?
> 
> I've been using a Skratch Labs recovery drink after harder workouts mostly because their horchata mix is fucking delicious, but it's primarily intended to provide some protein while getting your blood sugar back up to a normal realm after depleting it, and honestly if the protein itself isn't especially important for an endurance athlete whose primary goal is maximizing power output to weight, then it's a heck of a lot cheaper just to crack a root beer after a ride, than to mix up a $33-for-12-servings shake.



As an endurance guy I struggled with power on the bike and recovery. Guys I rode with could do massive back to back day but my legs were toast. I found that even eating a ton I did not ever get over 100grams of protein. Once I used an app to track my food I got up to 160 daily for my 160lb weight. My recovery was faster, power numbers jumped, my FTP went up 30 watts in a week and I leaned out.
Thanks for the reminder, I have been off for a few years racing motorcycles and getting hurt. Been on Zwift but under 100 grams a day again, need to get back on it!


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## Drew (Nov 26, 2021)

Bevo said:


> ...my FTP went up 30 watts in a week and I leaned out.


IMO, that's much more typical of overtraining and not adequately recovering, than it is of a sudden increase in strength. 

I've had that experience a couple times, most notably in the summer of 2020 when I was doing a LOT of KOM hunting on my lunch break on some of the short, punchy climbs in my neighborhood, and then longer, harder rides on the weekend, and was riding almost every single day, usually with either some max effort sprinting or sustained high output VO2Max-to-threshold efforts, and wasn't really taking rest of recovery days. My FTP was pegged at 305-310 or so and hadn't budged in months, but then in late July and early August I went up to Acadia with my fiancee for a long weekend, to hike and ride the carraige paths, and for a number of reasons ended up not riding for a few days in a row before we got up there. We spent one day doing a long (for her) ride around the carraige paths and then since I was being a pretty good sport, she let me take a run at the KOM on my favorite trail, the Around the Mountain path, starting on the Jordan Pond side. With fresh legs, I both took the KOM on an 8.5mi segment by a solid minute, and set a new Garmin-estimated FTP of 322, with a peak 20-minute effort of 338w and 330w+ on my peak efforts power curve out past 25 minutes, including a few rolling sections where I was descending on gravel and definitely not keeping my power effort dimed. 

The thing I learned most from that experience was that rest days are REALLY important.


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## Adieu (Nov 26, 2021)

What the hell is a watt in a human body context?


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## Bevo (Nov 26, 2021)

I get lots of rest days lol!
It’s cumulative I think, an extra two days to recover a week sometimes is not enough. Our couch had us on a good program but it was so hard to eat that much, ride and work. now it’s just fitness and leaning out staying in shape to race in the summer.
The older I get it’s even harder to recover, chasing and beating those 20 year old guys takes some serious effort now!


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## Bevo (Nov 26, 2021)

Adieu said:


> What the hell is a watt in a human body context?


In cycling we us it to measure power output, same as horsepower.
Our bikes have power meters on the cranks that measure the force we apply which comes out as watts.
FTP or functional Threshold Power is the maximum amount of watts we can maintain over a period of time.
Last one is our watts per KG, it evens the playing field. A guy 200 lb doing 300watts is the same as a guy at 140 doing 175watts.
The same in cars as HP per pound..

A top ranked pro can have an FTP of 3-400 watts peaking at 1000w. They can do massive power for hours steady in some cases like the grand tours..


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## Drew (Dec 16, 2021)

Adieu said:


> What the hell is a watt in a human body context?


One joule per second, same as it is in any other context. 



Bevo said:


> I get lots of rest days lol!
> It’s cumulative I think, an extra two days to recover a week sometimes is not enough. Our couch had us on a good program but it was so hard to eat that much, ride and work. now it’s just fitness and leaning out staying in shape to race in the summer.
> The older I get it’s even harder to recover, chasing and beating those 20 year old guys takes some serious effort now!


Strange, but yeah I agree, if I've been working hard a day off isn't going to cut it. A couple days at a minimum to a week. 

I'd say a top ranked pro is a bit beyond that - I'm probably around 320w at FTP these days (for @Adieu, a "period of time" is usually defined as one hour, so your FTP is estimated as the maximum power output you can maintain for an hour, usually estimated as 95% of your 20-minute max, because trust me, max-effort testing is NOT a pleasant experience. ) and while I'm heavier than a World Tour pro, there's more to it than that. My peak power is about 1250w and 10s max is I think either just over or just under 1100w, and for short bursts on flat ground raw power trumps w/kg, but even then I'd get my ass handed to me in a World Tour bunch sprint. I remember seeing Peter Sagan's power numbers for one of his sprints in the Giro last year, and he averaged 1400w for what was probably a 15 second effort. My legs hurt just thinking about it... and Sagan is more of a "hybrid" sprinter, with a strong sprint but his power curve is really more differentiated in the shorter end of the VO2Max range rather than a pure neuromuscular sprinter, where he does better on long sprints or uphill attacks, and in stages where he can stay with the lead group on climbs a more traditional sprint might fall off the back, and then demolish the GC guys in the race to the line. A peak 1800w+ power curve isn't unheard of for a World Tour sprinter... and the track guys often break 2,000w+, which is _insane_.  

I haven't spent THAT much effort working on my sprint, really, just some 30-second-to-1:30 KOM hunting in 2020, and I really should spend some time training it, though I honestly don't reallyt know where to start since I've been so focused on building my FTP the last several seasons.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 4, 2022)

Did we talk about creatine? I have been mostly doing the 5g/day thing, mostly just on workout days though. So 4-5 days/week. Anyone know if that is effective or just weaksauce bullshit schedule or creatine doesn't work?

EDIT: I guess we did talk about it already,nvm


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## ThePhilosopher (Jul 22, 2022)

Adieu said:


> And, from what you know, how does the workout you're describing compare to a 10k run with hard sprints?



Necro quote.

I've not done much sprinting, but my last 60 runs have been an average distance of 5 3/4 miles at an average pace of 10:16/mile with an average caloric burn of 120.40 cal/mile. My highest cal/mil have been in the low 130s - including a 13 mile trali run with 900ish feet of elevation gain last weekend (where I was underfueled and had to walk more than I want to admit). Even during my recent Ragnar my highest cal/mile was 126ish during a hot (for me, 85°F) 5.6 miles - granted that's just sleep deprivation and a lot of riding in a van, but it's the most underprepared I've felt running in a long time. 

My fastest recent 10K clocked at 59:24 and burned under 800 cals. I'm about 5'7" and 160lbs, FWIW.

Burning 1000 cals in a 10K, you'd need to burn about 161.30 cal/mile, which seems like quite an increase from 120s to 130s.


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## MFB (Sep 1, 2022)

Officially doing 2 shakes a day now, each serving is 30G so my daily total is just shy of ~100G a day at 230lbs; I'm sort of at a loss for where I can get more considering I'm already eating eggs/protein powder/chicken/protein bar every day I'm working out. The next steps seems to adding some sort of beef to my eggs, and maybe some almonds as a snack during the day.

I just have no idea how any gym rat my size gets 230G per day and doesn't hate being alive


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 1, 2022)

MFB said:


> Officially doing 2 shakes a day now, each serving is 30G so my daily total is just shy of ~100G a day at 230lbs; I'm sort of at a loss for where I can get more considering I'm already eating eggs/protein powder/chicken/protein bar every day I'm working out. The next steps seems to adding some sort of beef to my eggs, and maybe some almonds as a snack during the day.
> 
> I just have no idea how any gym rat my size gets 230G per day and doesn't hate being alive


crickets bro


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## MFB (Sep 1, 2022)

no


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## michael_bolton (Sep 1, 2022)

MFB said:


> Officially doing 2 shakes a day now, each serving is 30G so my daily total is just shy of ~100G a day at 230lbs; I'm sort of at a loss for where I can get more considering I'm already eating eggs/protein powder/chicken/protein bar every day I'm working out. The next steps seems to adding some sort of beef to my eggs, and maybe some almonds as a snack during the day.
> 
> I just have no idea how any gym rat my size gets 230G per day and doesn't hate being alive



50-60g of hydro whey easily dissolves in a 1L jug of water you can drink that instead of water. That said - the 1g per 1 lbs rule of thumb is just that - not a strict requirement for any kind of gains. Some (most?) variations of that rule claim that it's 1 lbs per lean pound so let's say at 20% body fat we're talking 180-ish grams of protein, which again is just a rule of thumb, relatively hardcore at that.


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## MFB (Sep 1, 2022)

Every protein powder I've taken says you're not supposed to exceed what I'm currently at, so I don't know if more powder is the answer either; and powder + water can suck an egg, that shit is vile. Milk uber alles.

I did just realize I didn't count the 32 oz of milk's protein that I'm drinking, so that's definitely upping my intake too since I use whole milk. I'll probably just add in some almonds and maybe some tuna and call it a day. I just did a quick calc and it looks like I shockingly do fall into that 20% body fat, so I'm fine not being too far off from 180G of protein if it saves me trying to hit 230G instead.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 1, 2022)

michael_bolton said:


> 50-60g of hydro whey easily dissolves in a 1L jug of water you can drink that instead of water. That said - the 1g per 1 lbs rule of thumb is just that - not a strict requirement for any kind of gains. Some (most?) variations of that rule claim that it's 1 lbs per lean pound so let's say at 20% body fat we're talking 180-ish grams of protein, which again is just a rule of thumb, relatively hardcore at that.


Yeah most studies show that 0.8g-1g per kg is optimal tbh. It shouldn't be that hard to get 150-200g of protein per day tbh. I was averaging over 150g a day just from eggs, whey, and some big ass chicken breasts.


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## SCJR (Sep 1, 2022)

I'm 5'6" 140 lbs (63.5 kg) and I remember hearing the 1 g per lb of body weight. I used to get close to that but found I never could really lean out once I started gaining the weight and I'm naturally skinny as shit. When I got it down closer to .5 g I saw the same results plus the leaning out I was looking for.

I saw a doctor on YouTube once say he's basically never seen a truly protein-deficient person in the First World. It's really hard to not get enough of it and the flipside of that is you don't need to put that much of a job on your system to process by overloading your intake of it. 

Dialing it back from the .7-1 g might seem counterintuitive and I'm no doctor of course but I've had great results personally.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 1, 2022)

SCJR said:


> I'm 5'6" 140 lbs (63.5 kg) and I remember hearing the 1 g per lb of body weight. I used to get close to that but found I never could really lean out once I started gaining the weight and I'm naturally skinny as shit. When I got it down closer to .5 g I saw the same results plus the leaning out I was looking for.
> 
> I saw a doctor on YouTube once say he's basically never seen a truly protein-deficient person in the First World. It's really hard to not get enough of it and the flipside of that is you don't need to put that much of a job on your system to process by overloading your intake of it.
> 
> Dialing it back from the .7-1 g might seem counterintuitive and I'm no doctor of course but I've had great results personally.


The .8- 1g is more for people trying to bulk or maintain extra mass typically. I'd agree that it's not necessary if that's not your end goal.


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## michael_bolton (Sep 1, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> The .8- 1g is more for people trying to bulk or maintain extra mass typically. I'd agree that it's not necessary if that's not your end goal.



aaaacchually this kind of protein intake would mostly factor in when cutting to prevent too much muscle loss. for bulking calories top protein (to an extent ofc we're not talking drinking a fifth of booze a day lol) which is why something like GOMAD is hard to beat for that.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 1, 2022)

michael_bolton said:


> aaaacchually this kind of protein intake would mostly factor in when cutting to prevent too much muscle loss. for bulking calories top protein (to an extent ofc we're not talking drinking a fifth of booze a day lol) which is why something like GOMAD is hard to beat for that.


RDA is .8g and that's fine for a lot of people tbh. If you're really trying to bulk then I've seen literature support 1.6g-2.2g/kg . The overwhelming majority of people won't need to go beyond that, and there's very little literature supporting anything beyond 1.6g/kg tbh. 








A systematic review, meta-analysis and meta-regression of the effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength in healthy adults - PubMed


Dietary protein supplementation significantly enhanced changes in muscle strength and size during prolonged RET in healthy adults. Increasing age reduces and training experience increases the efficacy of protein supplementation during RET. With protein supplementation, protein intakes at amounts...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov












Effects of Dietary Protein on Body Composition in Exercising Individuals


Protein is an important component of a healthy diet and appears to be integral to enhancing training adaptations in exercising individuals. The purpose of this narrative review is to provide an evidence-based assessment of the current literature examining ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## jaxadam (Sep 2, 2022)

It is very hard to do. I shoot for 1:1 lbm and I rarely get close. I have roughly two shakes a day and that's 60 grams so I need another almost 100 grams and I just can't eat two chicken breasts for dinner.


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## MFB (Sep 2, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> It is very hard to do. I shoot for 1:1 lbm and I rarely get close. I have roughly two shakes a day and that's 60 grams so I need another almost 100 grams and I just can't eat two chicken breasts for dinner.



Honestly, if it's good enough for you then I'm gonna say it's good enough for me  Now I just need to up my daily total so I'm not in starvation mode; according to the calcs I did, my TDEE is ~3200 and currently I only eat ~1600 and that's BEFORE I workout. Buddy of mine was saying to up that by probably another small meals worth so my deficit is like, ~6/700 and I can still get muscle growth since I've stagnated.


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## jaxadam (Sep 2, 2022)

MFB said:


> Honestly, if it's good enough for you then I'm gonna say it's good enough for me  Now I just need to up my daily total so I'm not in starvation mode; according to the calcs I did, my TDEE is ~3200 and currently I only eat ~1600 and that's BEFORE I workout. Buddy of mine was saying to up that by probably another small meals worth so my deficit is like, ~6/700 and I can still get muscle growth since I've stagnated.



So I would also like to say a little something about this, but I don't want you to take my advice, I'd suggest you hire a nutrition coach, even if it's for just a few sessions. 

For a guy like you coming down from a lot of weight, I think the approach of overloading cardio with a significant caloric deficit is a recipe for disaster in the long run. I mean yes, of course it works in the short term, but there are a lot of trainers that do not like overloading cardio due to cortisol response. In addition, weight training for maximum cal/min production will have a much more beneficial effect long term. I know junior tennis players that are hitting 3 to 4 hours a day, and they are eating around 4000 cals/day.

Back in the day there was a girl on the bodybuilding.com forums that ate 1200 cals/day, did cardio, and drank on the weekends. She was "thick chubby". She went to 2300 cals/day, weight trained, and switched to low/no sugar alcohol and over the course of about 9 months got into pretty good shape. 

At the end of the day, some of the best advice I've heard is not to focus on the results, but the journey.

I like this guys approach to lifting as well:


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## michael_bolton (Sep 2, 2022)

MFB said:


> powder + water can suck an egg, that shit is vile. Milk uber alles....



Old school whey or casein etc - no doubt, esp your typical vanilla/chocolate flavors. Hydro whey dissolves in water kinda like how creatine/sugar does - totally diff beast.
Unflavored kind is barely noticeable in water so you can just drink it throughout the day instead of water. Probably too much off the deep end but in terms of actually digesting the protein you're taking - non-hydrolized kinds can benefit quite a bit from getting mixed with insulin-spiking liquid like milk. Hydro is super easy to digest, no need for milk which makes it perfect for cutting.

To each it's own though, tastes/goals etc obv differ.


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## MFB (Sep 2, 2022)

Yeah, it's definitely crossed my mind to speak with a nutritionist/specialist/trainer etc, and the fact that you repped Papa Jeff means I'm in good company for sure. I've watched his stuff for a while, probably so long that I've forgotten the earlier stuff that I now need to pay attention to.


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## MFB (Sep 2, 2022)

michael_bolton said:


> Old school whey or casein etc - no doubt, esp your typical vanilla/chocolate flavors. Hydro whey dissolves in water kinda like how creatine/sugar does - totally diff beast.
> Unflavored kind is barely noticeable in water so you can just drink it throughout the day instead of water. Probably too much off the deep end but in terms of actually digesting the protein you're taking - non-hydrolized kinds can benefit quite a bit from getting mixed with insulin-spiking liquid like milk. Hydro is super easy to digest, no need for milk which makes it perfect for cutting.
> 
> To each it's own though, tastes/goals etc obv differ.



Oh, interesting, I figured they all came in the same sort of variety, I didn't realize hydro-whey would be so different but I guess given HYDRO being in the name should be at least a hint. I'll give it a look then and see


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 8, 2022)

Want to lose a few IQ points? Read this bot article:









Do You Mix Whey and Casein Protein Together? - Gym Grinder


Do You Mix Whey and Casein Protein Together? There are a lot of different sports which require highly refined protein, and most people can’t get enough protein in their diet. For this reason, they will go to great lengths to be able to ingest the same as they possibly can. A common way of doing […]




gymgrinder.com


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 8, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Want to lose a few IQ points? Read this bot article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah yess, milk proteins DO mix with other milk proteins. So insightful


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 8, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> ah yess, milk proteins DO mix with other milk proteins. So insightful


And they combine to form a protein.


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