# So I'm a Satanist



## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

For years and years I've pretty much had the same ideas of the world and spirituality and all that, but I never really had a name for exactly what I believed. I listened to all religions, took into consideration all that they taught, formed my own opinions and moved on. Through it all I agreed most with Modern Satanism, yet I was unaware that there were different branches of the religion (Like Christianity has many branches). I didn't know at the time that there was such a thing, the only ones I knew were Luciferian and LeVayan Satanism, both of which I agreed with only partially, even less regarding LeVay. I bought an inverted cross necklace years ago, which I grew quite fond of and wore it all the time. It was merely a symbol of my stance against the heard mentality of Christianity, and a symbol of what I saw as the absurdity of the cross in the first place.

Recently I was confronted by a bible nut while at work (who was offended by my cross, stating that it would be like him wearing a Swastika....fail..), and whereas I don't get into discussions of any serious sort (especially not religious ones) with customers, it really did make me re-evaluate all I believed in. Not to say my views changed, but I looked at them more closely. To make a long story short, I turned to Satanism as it was a point of view I'd always had the most in common, idea wise, with. I learned there where LeVayan Satanists, Luciferian, Theistic Satanism, and Modern Satanism. The last one struck a serious chord, as EVERYTHING I believed in was there. It was as if I'd been living as a Modern Satanist for years and never really knew it. 

Identifying with such a way of thinking was an instant relief in a way I can't really explain. It's like having a serious moment of clarity, a fog vanishing after years of distorting your vision. Just speaking to other Satanists and learning more helped a lot too and made me realize that I had a name for everything I believed in. Even my views on what I call "practical misanthropy" were there and since the day I had this revelation I've been much happier. Isn't the point of religion in the first place? A gay black satanist in an extreme metal band..there's got to be a joke in there somewhere..but it's nice to learn things about yourself, especially ones that have such a positive impact in your life.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 25, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Recently I was confronted by a bible nut while at work (who was offended by my cross, stating that it would be like him wearing a Swastika....fail..)



Didn't know you were Jewish. Black, gay, AND Jewish. You've got it bad dude.

I'm the same way (not black, gay, or Jewish...) that I identify closely with LaVey Satanism, but I find their rituals stupid, as in any religion. I've never really talked with any Satanists as I imagine they're pretty scarce around here, not that I really consider myself one really. I have a feeling if I actually did find any around here they'd just be metal heads and saying they're Satanist to be cool or something.

I'd say I'm more of an agnostic athiest with Satanist principles


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## Tiger (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm a label, but growing up my parents raised me label. Nowadays I cant stand labels but I listen to their point of view about their label. Label label label.


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## leandroab (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm glad you found a religion that you can agree with... For years I'm trying to believe in something, but I've failed miserably. I hope you enjoy it and start making good friends in the religious circle, although I don't think Satanist churches are THAT popular.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> A gay black satanist in an extreme metal band..there's got to be a joke in there somewhere...


 Gaahl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He's not black, or Satanist, but you get the picture...
Good luck man!


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I'd say I'm more of an agnostic athiest with Satanist principles


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

Gaahl is most certainly a Satanist


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I'd say I'm more of an agnostic athiest with Satanist principles



I'm something around there. Modern Satanism stems from LaVeyan Satanism..and of course like any religion there are offshoots and different interpretations. My views are pretty much Satanism based, but of course Satanism teaches free thought and the pursuit of knowledge, so I have views that technically wouldn't be 100% "Satanic" yet even those views tie in in some aspect. It's weird to realize that almost all my thoughts on spirituality and human nature are tied in with Satanic philosophy.



JJ Rodriguez said:


> Didn't know you were Jewish. Black, gay, AND Jewish. You've got it bad dude.


Yeah...I asked him how a group who's goal was mass genocide based on religious differences, sexual orientation, and ethnicity...and not being a Christian equate to one another. NOT to mention that I've known Nazis (hang around the black metal scene and you're bound to come across at least one) and whereas I clearly don't agree with their point of view, I'm not offended nor would I waste my breath telling them how wrong they are. You have the right to believe whatever you like as long as you hurt no one in the process.

Of course he had no answer..but Jesus said it's bad so I must be wrong. He even complained to the manager..as if somehow that would help.


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## leandroab (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Gaahl is most certainly a Satanist


 Not really!
Go watch _True Norwegian Black Metal _and read some of his interviews. He hates the fact that Christianity is imposed and shoved upon people and all that crap... He poses as a Satanist for the same purposes as Slayer does: controversy. And Araya is Catholic.

But let's not get into that... I hate these kinds of discussions..
The point is, that he's fucking bad ass!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

So technically I'm one of the few actual Black Metal musicians who's gay and a Satanist? Hell..maybe the only one (except for Euronymous...possibly)


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

leandroab said:


> Not really!
> Go watch _True Norwegian Black Metal _and read some of his interviews. He hates the fact that Christianity is imposed and shoved upon people and all that crap... He poses as a Satanist for the same purposes as Slayer does: controversy. And Araya is Catholic.
> 
> But let's not get into that... I hate these kinds of discussions..
> The point is, that he's fucking bad ass!



Well, he does a pretty good job of hiding that he's not a Satanist then, that guy goes on and on and on about fucking Satan 

Araya is Catholic yes... always found that one a bit weird, but strokes for folks.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Well, he does a pretty good job of hiding that he's not a Satanist then, that guy goes on and on and on about fucking Satan
> 
> Araya is Catholic yes... always found that one a bit weird, but strokes for folks.



Eh..I think I've ranted about Slayer enough on this board...I won't get into that one again.

But from what I understand, Gaahl isn't actually a satanist but he identifies with a lot of Satanic beliefs..or it could just be his trying to stand out. The more I learn about him the more I don't really care for him. Not to mention he tried screwing Infernus out of his own band....now THAT'S gay.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 25, 2009)

All part of the gay agenda.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Eh..I think I've ranted about Slayer enough on this board...I won't get into that one again.
> 
> But from what I understand, Gaahl isn't actually a satanist but he identifies with a lot of Satanic beliefs..or it could just be his trying to stand out. The more I learn about him the more I don't really care for him. Not to mention he tried screwing Infernus out of his own band....now THAT'S gay.



I like how you use the word 'gay' in a negative context even though you're gay yourself 

Seriously though, gay people who get funny about people using the word gay in a negative context piss me off.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I like how you use the word 'gay' in a negative context even though you're gay yourself
> 
> Seriously though, gay people who get funny about people using the word gay in a negative context piss me off.



People take themselves too seriously. Sometimes you have to lighten the fuck up and realize that everyone won't cater to you to keep from hurting your feelings. Security within oneself keeps words from having a damaging effect.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> People take themselves too seriously. Sometimes you have to lighten the fuck up and realize that everyone won't cater to you to keep from hurting your feelings. Security within oneself keeps words from having a damaging effect.



I'm going to rep you for this when it will let me


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## leandroab (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Well, he does a pretty good job of hiding that he's not a Satanist then, that guy goes on and on and on about fucking Satan


 
Yes... Apparently he despises the Church of Satan and he is "Gaahlian" or something... 

I mean, we will never know. And after you see such things like these:

You really start to wonder if he is really _not_ satanist 

And yeah, he's homossexual!
I mean, he even participated in a women's fashion collection! (designing it, of course)
That's just bad ass haha


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

Yeah that's exactly what I mean dude, when you go around saying things like that you can't accuse people of 'mistaking' you for a Satanist


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## TomAwesome (Oct 25, 2009)

It's always good to clarify and solidify your religious views. 



JJ Rodriguez said:


> I'd say I'm more of an agnostic athiest with Satanist principles



Agnostic atheist? Those are two very conflicting things, dude. You can't really be both.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Agnostic atheist? Those are two very conflicting things, dude. You can't really be both.



Actually, yes you can.

Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## TomAwesome (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Actually, yes you can.
> 
> Agnostic atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I see. That only half makes sense to me, though. I think of agnosticism as generally meaning that a person doesn't claim to know for a fact whether or not any deities exist and atheism as generally meaning that a person does claim to know that there are no deities. The way that link describes agnostic atheism, it seems like nothing more than a redundant description of weak atheism.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

It's pretty much basically that. I consider myself an agnostic atheist as I vehemently don't believe in any God or deity, but at the same time I'm not so arrogant as to say I definitely know that my point of view is definitive.


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## TomAwesome (Oct 25, 2009)

So, in practice, the difference between weak atheism and agnostic atheism is that in the latter, the acknowledgment that the possibility exists is more explicit, rather than merely implicit in the former? That makes sense, I guess. Actually, that's not too far off from where I stand, except that rather than atheist with a nod to agnostic, I'm more of an agnostic who is just leaning a little more toward the atheist side of it.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

Sounds like we're both weak atheists then.

Tiger's probably getting furious over these labels.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 25, 2009)

Yeah, I'm more of an athiest, in that I'm fairly certain there's no higher power. However, I won't deny the remote possibility that there is something. I think the biggest difference in the way an athiest things vs a religious person is that if you could show undeniable, scientific proof that there was no god (not that such a thing is possible) to a religious person, they would deny it as a test of faith. You show undeniable and scientific proof that god did in fact exist to an athiest and you'd probably be greeted with "....Well shit....didn't see that one coming".

I will say however that in the remote possibility there is a god, I highly doubt it's the Christian one, or one that actually gives a shit about all those rules.


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## Tiger (Oct 25, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Tiger's probably getting furious over these labels.



*Quietly makes dismissive wanking motions*


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## TomAwesome (Oct 25, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Yeah, I'm more of an athiest, in that I'm fairly certain there's no higher power. However, I won't deny the remote possibility that there is something. I think the biggest difference in the way an athiest things vs a religious person is that if you could show undeniable, scientific proof that there was no god (not that such a thing is possible) to a religious person, they would deny it as a test of faith. You show undeniable and scientific proof that god did in fact exist to an athiest and you'd probably be greeted with "....Well shit....didn't see that one coming".
> 
> I will say however that in the remote possibility there is a god, I highly doubt it's the Christian one, or one that actually gives a shit about all those rules.



Pretty much. I had also figured that if there does turn out to be a god, I sincerely doubt that god will quite match up with the god of any currently existing religion.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 25, 2009)

Tiger said:


> *Quietly makes dismissive wanking motions*



Oh so you DO like labels? 

What worries me the most about Christianity in particular is that whatever the believer's actions, they say "God told me to do it". 

Effectively, they could apply it to anything and everything they personally want to do and use the excuse "God told me to do it".


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 25, 2009)

I like how when bad shit happens, god has a plan, but supposedly gave us free will. If he has a plan, then free will is negated  It's logical fallacies like that that make me really dislike Christianity  If god existed in the Christian sense, I probably WOULD be a theistic Satanist 

But either way, it's cool you found a philosophy you identify with. Are you planning on joining any kind of Church of Satan, or whatever they have for modern (not LaVey, although I'm not too familiar with the difference) Satanists?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 25, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> But either way, it's cool you found a philosophy you identify with. Are you planning on joining any kind of Church of Satan, or whatever they have for modern (not LaVey, although I'm not too familiar with the difference) Satanists?



Well, as with any religion, you don't need to "join" a specific congregation to be a part of the faith. If in fact I do, it will be one I've researched thoroughly. I haven't given that aspect thought just yet, although I'm not completely opposed to the idea...we'll see.


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## Setnakt (Oct 26, 2009)

Unfortunately I believe all of the Churches of Satan have a membership fee. That always seemed silly to be honest.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 26, 2009)

Setnakt said:


> Unfortunately I believe all of the Churches of Satan have a membership fee. That always seemed silly to be honest.



They don't all charge..and I wouldn't be paying anything anyways. If I refuse to pay a church I sure as hell wouldn't pay the "anti-church". Not to mention, as stated, even Satanic Churches will tell you that you don't need a church..it's mainly for the fellowship of other like minded individuals. If you live by Satanic teachings, and believe in it, then you are a Satanist. You don't need to approval or "allowance" of anyone else to validate it.

One of the reasons I like Satanism so much..it's just common sense for the most part. I've always felt a religion should be that way.



HAUCH said:


> Man, Drak. You must have grown up under some pretty unique circumstances. It would be awesome to see you guest star on kids shows, or a possible Oprah interview. You MUST bring that fake head tho.



Eh..nothing of interest growing up. I was raised Jehovah's Witness if that factors in in any way. Was constantly the oddball for one reason or another..but I don't suppose any of that has anything to do with this choice.

Then again the Jehovah's Witness thing did..I grew to HATE the whole religious oppression thing and I hated those who enforced spiritual rules that they didn't even understand themselves. So many questions went unanswered. And even until recently I had to shake off that "belief" that the second you declare yourself having anything to do with Satan, you'll be haunted, possessed and demons will personally harass you and bad things would keep happening to you. Funny how a religion instills fear that can hang around even as the person is old enough to know better. I'm definitely more happy now then I've ever been.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 26, 2009)

I know how you feel about the membership fees, but I like how the Church of Satan justifies it, basically it's VERY Satanic to have to pay a fee, since they aren't going to do the work out of the kindness of their hearts  If they organize meetings, pay rent on property for a meetup location, etc, that shit costs money.


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## RenegadeDave (Oct 26, 2009)

There's also the Order of Set. I forgot how it plays into the whole Satanist schema, but it is an offshoot of LeVayan Satanism (IIRC)


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## -mouse- (Oct 26, 2009)

It's hard to determine what exactly I am... I hold alot of religious beliefs from different sides of the story... I believe in being kind to others, and generally treating people how I want to be treated (christianity), I believe in not placing importance on physical things (Buddhism)(Guitars and shit don't count), and I believe that humans are pretty much their own gods (LaVeyan Satanism). So i kinda follow my own path 

I've also been friends with alot of Satanists. They are really nice people.


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## Rick (Oct 26, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I know how you feel about the membership fees, but I like how the Church of Satan justifies it, basically it's VERY Satanic to have to pay a fee, since they aren't going to do the work out of the kindness of their hearts  If they organize meetings, pay rent on property for a meetup location, etc, that shit costs money.



"This is the Church of Satan, not a waste...paper...basket...can."


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## TomAwesome (Oct 26, 2009)

-mouse- said:


> It's hard to determine what exactly I am... I hold alot of religious beliefs from different sides of the story... I believe in being kind to others, and generally treating people how I want to be treated (christianity), I believe in not placing importance on physical things (Buddhism)(Guitars and shit don't count), and I believe that humans are pretty much their own gods (LaVeyan Satanism). So i kinda follow my own path
> 
> I've also been friends with alot of Satanists. They are really nice people.



Most of those aren't religious beliefs per se. Being kind to others isn't a strictly religious idea. It actually really bothers me when I see people who are generous and kind to others, but only because they fear eternal damnation if they're not. I'm a pretty nice guy for the most part, and I always try to do the right thing, but it's not for any religious reason. The same idea goes for not holding much wealth in material possessions, though Buddhism isn't really a religion, anyway.


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## IDLE (Oct 26, 2009)

Whatever makes you happy is good in my book.

For me groups of people with common beliefs always turn out the same ways and I see the same things that I didn't like about Christianity in them. So I do my best to stay a loner, haha, even if I do agree with certain ideas.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 26, 2009)

Yeah Christianity is selfish that way.

Missionaries? There for themselves, fuckers.

The Ten Commandments (well, the ones that don't have God in them) are just common sense and it baffles me that people think they need to adhere to these rules of common sense in order to live their life.

The argument "if you are Godless, you have no moral compass" is fucking stupid and every time I hear it said I want to ring the neck of the person saying it.


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## noob_pwn (Oct 27, 2009)

OP: dude you make me proud. glad you've stood up for what you believe in as a minority and identified your place. There aren't many things i hate more than Christianity so you have all my best wishes


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## -mouse- (Oct 27, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Yeah Christianity is selfish that way.
> 
> Missionaries? There for themselves, fuckers.
> 
> ...



agreed... the lack of free will and initiative and common sense in some people is astounding.  It's as if they think all athiests are out to fuck hookers, do drugs, and destroy the world... All it takes is some common human decency, and you don't have to have God, or a religion, its that simple.


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## widdlywhaa (Oct 27, 2009)

I could go on and on about this for days... i live right in the middle of the damn bible belt and my whole family is southern baptist..... ugh the worst fucking kind.

it always kills me though that people who belong to various religious groups are so easily offended when a questioning finger is pointed at them, but they're so ready to question everyone else..... I'm definately the oddball in my family, but still i wish my family members would think a little bit every once in a while......

My whole stance is just that i've abolished all religious urges from my mind... I don't need for it, I think it leads to problems. doesn't matter if you have good intentions or not. it's like a social war, when you join one, you're automatically the enemy of every other one. all it takes is some zealot to poke around in your business longer than they should to stir up shit.

like the whole thing with that dude trying to report you to your manager, how fucking christian is that!?!?!?!!?

"You don't share my beliefs so you should be jobless and broke!"

that's all that was going through that mans mind.... he can claim whateverholy cause he wants, you stood as a questioning individual to his ways so he wanted you to suffer. sickening!

If there is a god he surely looks down on his "chosen people" in disgust.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 27, 2009)

The bible preaches that you're supposed to live by God's word..and God is the sole judge of ones "damnation". You aren't supposed to bother anyone because if they're wrong, God will deal with it in his own time..that isn't your place. All you're supposed to do is try to inform others of God's word. If they don't want to hear it..so what..you've done your job.

For some reason bible nuts (Or Crosstitutes as I call them) feel that means harassing you whenever and wherever they deem it appropriate. Growing up in a strict christian faith..I've definitely gone through the bible on more than a few occasions and it's sad when you know more about the book than the people bothering you.

Honestly Christianity itself isn't all that bad..but Crosstitutes take what's supposed to teach peace and tolerance, and turn it into a "get out of jail free" card for forcing their way on everything...doesn't work that way. Everyone's entitled to their belief as long as they hurt no one else in the process, that I'm a firm believer in. Why is it that the "degenerate sexual deviant Satan worshiper" ends up being the sane and rational one when compared to these people who are supposed to be the upright and moral children of a higher power?


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 27, 2009)

-mouse- said:


> agreed... the lack of free will and initiative and common sense in some people is astounding.  It's as if they think all athiests are out to fuck hookers, do drugs, and destroy the world... All it takes is some common human decency, and you don't have to have God, or a religion, its that simple.







widdlywhaa said:


> I could go on and on about this for days... i live right in the middle of the damn bible belt and my whole family is southern baptist..... ugh the worst fucking kind.
> 
> it always kills me though that people who belong to various religious groups are so easily offended when a questioning finger is pointed at them, but they're so ready to question everyone else..... I'm definately the oddball in my family, but still i wish my family members would think a little bit every once in a while......
> 
> ...



If there is a God, I doubt it looks at anything, or even feels disgust. These are all human properties, the human race is so arrogant that it thinks if a God exists, it/he/she has human traits. Very stupid if you ask me.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The bible preaches that you're supposed to live by God's word..and God is the sole judge of ones "damnation". You aren't supposed to bother anyone because if they're wrong, God will deal with it in his own time..that isn't your place. All you're supposed to do is try to inform others of God's word. If they don't want to hear it..so what..you've done your job.
> 
> For some reason bible nuts (Or Crosstitutes as I call them) feel that means harassing you whenever and wherever they deem it appropriate. Growing up in a strict christian faith..I've definitely gone through the bible on more than a few occasions and it's sad when you know more about the book than the people bothering you.
> 
> Honestly Christianity itself isn't all that bad..but Crosstitutes take what's supposed to teach peace and tolerance, and turn it into a "get out of jail free" card for forcing their way on everything...doesn't work that way. Everyone's entitled to their belief as long as they hurt no one else in the process, that I'm a firm believer in. Why is it that the "degenerate sexual deviant Satan worshiper" ends up being the sane and rational one when compared to these people who are supposed to be the upright and moral children of a higher power?



Religion eventually changes with the times. A hundred years ago, Muslims were strictly forbidden to listen to music. Today is just the same, except now they actually do. They watch TV, all the normal Western shit people do. Interpretation of religion evolves over time and I bet eventually Christianity will change to accept "sexual deviance" as they so elegantly put it. Maybe not in our lifetime, but I can see it happening.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 27, 2009)

Crosstitutes has been deemed true and shall now have a normal use in my vocabularly, thank you Drak.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 27, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Crosstitutes has been deemed true and shall now have a normal use in my vocabularly, thank you Drak.



Ha..You're welcome..however I can't take full credit as I got the word from Bathory..but I liked the word so much that it became part of my vocabulary.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 27, 2009)

Bathory


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 27, 2009)

RenegadeDave said:


> There's also the Order of Set. I forgot how it plays into the whole Satanist schema, but it is an offshoot of LeVayan Satanism (IIRC)



There's a few of those. Set is one. Those, if I'm not mistaken, are more along the lines of Theistic Satanism. I could be wrong. Now I get to answer the "Do you mutilate cats" questions for the rest of my life....


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 27, 2009)

I have no idea what religion I am. I just do what I do. I'll leave the classification up to someone else... 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> There's a few of those. Set is one. Those, if I'm not mistaken, are more along the lines of Theistic Satanism. I could be wrong. Now I get to answer the "Do you mutilate cats" questions for the rest of my life....


Do you? I hear that can be quite tasty if prepared properly...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 27, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> I have no idea what religion I am. I just do what I do. I'll leave the classification up to someone else...
> 
> 
> Do you? I hear that can be quite tasty if prepared properly...



Well...honestly I wouldn't be opposed to eating one, but who needs to torture animals when you have perfectly deserving human idiots roaming the streets?


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 27, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Well...honestly I wouldn't be opposed to eating one, but who needs to torture animals when you have perfectly deserving human idiots roaming the streets?


Touche


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## lobee (Oct 27, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Well...honestly I wouldn't be opposed to eating one, but who needs to pleasure females when you have perfectly deserving human male rape victims roaming the streets?



This just in: Drakkar not opposed to eating a pussy! Film at 11!


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 27, 2009)

^


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 27, 2009)

LIES! LIES AND SLANDER!


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 27, 2009)

bring on the video evidence...


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## Koshchei (Oct 27, 2009)

^ This describes my views. I am not a Satanist; I am a misanthrope.

Humans are so caught up with their own sense of self-importance and foolish absolutist ideologies that they forget that they are merely an insignificant energy-expending process in an environment that doesn't know or care that they exist.

We see ourselves as the progeny of a divine legacy, superior to all around us, yet we lack the foresight or the control to delay gratification for even a second. We see our intellect as a gift of supernatural enlightenment, yet how readily it becomes a curse when we misapply it, and how irrelevant it proves to be when we are unexpectedly felled by a heart attack or cancer.

I'm happy for you that you've found an organization that your views are compatible with. I suggest that you be discreet about it in the real world, unless you wish to fight a lot of unnecessary battles over something that ultimately does not matter.


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## XeoFLCL (Oct 28, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> I'm happy for you that you've found an organization that your views are compatible with. I suggest that you be discreet about it in the real world, unless you wish to fight a lot of unnecessary battles over something that ultimately does not matter.


It's not only with satanism alone however. 

I myself lean towards alot of buddhist beliefs and practices and have a very strong spiritual connection (though I don't call myself a buddhist as I'm not quite educated enough.. going to start reading more and more over the next few months before I say I'm anything) and it seems if I were to mention that everyday in public I'd be getting stopped every 20 feet at work and being asked why I believe in it and why I'm not a christian. My mother infact is a christian, and she nags me about it. My reason is I simply find more understanding and comfort in the teachings of buddha. I don't hate any other religions (or anyone for that matter) and I never plan to. Everyone has their own beliefs and I don't believe it's right to force people to be such and such religion, if people wish for religion they will seek it, or if they wish for spiritual comfort, they will seek that aswell. However, it seems religions tend to hate me? So overall I just avoid the topic, as it simply breeds hate, as it was intended to from the start. Keep in mind all religion is manmade, spirituality on the other hand is not.


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## Daemoniac (Oct 28, 2009)

I tend to dissociate myself from religions. Not necessarily because i dislike any of them at their very basis, but rather because i have a lot of trouble figuring out exactly what and who "i" am anyway. It's weird, but I've always had a fair amount of trouble there... I mean, i know "who" I am, and i know what i like and all that, just not "what" i am if you know what I mean  Anyway, I just sure as hell don't want a religion getting involved as well.

That said, i did feel some affinity for LaVey's Satanism, bar the rituals and some of the actual points of it as well.


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## Koshchei (Oct 28, 2009)

XeoFLCL said:


> It's not only with satanism alone however.
> 
> I myself lean towards alot of buddhist beliefs and practices and have a very strong spiritual connection (though I don't call myself a buddhist as I'm not quite educated enough.. going to start reading more and more over the next few months before I say I'm anything) and it seems if I were to mention that everyday in public I'd be getting stopped every 20 feet at work and being asked why I believe in it and why I'm not a christian. My mother infact is a christian, and she nags me about it. My reason is I simply find more understanding and comfort in the teachings of buddha. I don't hate any other religions (or anyone for that matter) and I never plan to. Everyone has their own beliefs and I don't believe it's right to force people to be such and such religion, if people wish for religion they will seek it, or if they wish for spiritual comfort, they will seek that aswell. However, it seems religions tend to hate me? So overall I just avoid the topic, as it simply breeds hate, as it was intended to from the start. Keep in mind all religion is manmade, spirituality on the other hand is not.



No, I'm pretty certain that both are man-made. 

People obsess about things that do not matter, like whether you're a Chevy, a Mopar, or a Ford guy, or which old guy up in the sky you affiliate yourself with. Affiliating yourself with any of these things may give you the support you need to drown out the suffering around you with your chanting, but it's still there, and when the ritual is over, nothing will have changed.

Many people forget the option d in of all this, which is not to choose, not to wear a black armband, not to require some sort of community support mechanism that feeds you the wrong answers to the wrong questions. Choosing to believe because so many others believe only means that the number of fools in the room has increased by one.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 28, 2009)

Spirituality is surely manmade. I'm guessing it was created by man when our brains evolved past a point where we were no longer blissfully ignorant mammals and instead we had advanced brains that had to have the answer for this, that and this, although no answer is really required.


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## petereanima (Oct 28, 2009)

lobee said:


> This just in: Drakkar not opposed to eating a pussy! Film at 11!



+rep 

drak is seriously my hero. gay black jewish guy playing black metal, raised jehovahs witness, now satanist. i'm dead serious, i think thats awesome. i just wanted to say that.

for religious beliefs - count me in to the weak atheist club.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 28, 2009)

He's not actually Jewish  I was just making fun of him.


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## petereanima (Oct 28, 2009)

ah o.k., misread that. 

nontheless: still cool.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 28, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> No, I'm pretty certain that both are man-made.
> 
> People obsess about things that do not matter, like whether you're a Chevy, a Mopar, or a Ford guy, or which old guy up in the sky you affiliate yourself with. Affiliating yourself with any of these things may give you the support you need to drown out the suffering around you with your chanting, but it's still there, and when the ritual is over, nothing will have changed.
> 
> Many people forget the option d in of all this, which is not to choose, not to wear a black armband, not to require some sort of community support mechanism that feeds you the wrong answers to the wrong questions. Choosing to believe because so many others believe only means that the number of fools in the room has increased by one.



As a "practical" misanthrope, I do think most people associate themselves with religion because they don't want to be alone. Being alone is one of the great fears of humanity. You, however are making a blanket statement. Some people identify with a religion because it just makes sense to them and it's, in likelihood, how they would see the world anyways. It not about picking a side and declaring it to the world..it SHOULD be something personal to you. As a Satanist and misanthrope I think one should never take the path created for them. I think you should question any and everything that's given to you and never accept things out of blind faith or the silly need to belong. Even Satanists question Satanic views and lots of them are the loner types who don't join Grottos because they feel the fellowship of others is a waste of time. There can be belief without sheep mentality.

Secondly I don't believe in keeping anything hidden. To me hiding aspects of yourself stems from fear and shame. It allows those who would force their ways on another to keep doing so. Majority isn't always right. I don't make a big deal out of anything, be it my race, religion, sexual preference, or whatever, but I don't hide any of those things, I don't deny them, and I refuse to be silenced, or harassed because of them. I've run into people all my life who had a problem with something I did or something I was, the "battle" is nothing new. I believe it makes you stronger as a person, whereas hiding only makes you weak and miserable.

It's sort of my interpretation of the 11th Satanic Rule Of The Earth:
"When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."

Whereas I don't believe this means to actually kill them, I do take it as stopping those who would bother you. You are to remain respectful, and if someone refuses to treat you with the same respect, it is obvious that by shrinking away they will gain momentum to continue. By confronting them and destroying that part of them that's given them the courage to act out such a stupid idea, you gain strength and if nothing else it teaches them that you aren't to be messed with. Sometimes it just has to be done. In layman terms:
"Suckas wanna try me till I hang my foot in they ass"


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 28, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> "Suckas wanna try me till I hang my foot in they ass"



I prefer the Brand Nubians: "Punks step up and get beat down!"

But yea, what you said makes sense. I think sometimes people will get hung up in semantics. The word "Satan" appears in the name of your religion and for some reason America is "God's country" to some, so inevitably you're gonna catch shit. But clearly you don't care. I can dig it.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 28, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> I prefer the Brand Nubians: "Punks step up and get beat down!"
> 
> But yea, what you said makes sense. I think sometimes people will get hung up in semantics. The word "Satan" appears in the name of your religion and for some reason America is "God's country" to some, so inevitably you're gonna catch shit. But clearly you don't care. I can dig it.




Or
"*****'s wanna wild out,*****'s get laid out"

I can't remember what that's from..but lord knows it runs through my head constantly.


I, a long time ago, thought like most people that Satanism was just stupid..as it was just common sense stuff with the shock value of the name Satan thrown in. Funny how things change. I think at the time I was just against all religion period and wanted nothing to do with any of it. But later I learned why it was called Satanism and it made sense. Of course when you say that you're a Satanist you are automatically associated with idiots who murder animals and all that silly shit, but hopefully you get to educate that person. Isn't life about learning as much as you can before it's over?


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 28, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Or
> "*****'s wanna wild out,*****'s get laid out"
> 
> I can't remember what that's from..but lord knows it runs through my head constantly.



I feel like I've heard it too, but I don't know what it is.


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## XeoFLCL (Oct 28, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> No, I'm pretty certain that both are man-made.
> 
> People obsess about things that do not matter, like whether you're a Chevy, a Mopar, or a Ford guy, or which old guy up in the sky you affiliate yourself with. Affiliating yourself with any of these things may give you the support you need to drown out the suffering around you with your chanting, but it's still there, and when the ritual is over, nothing will have changed.
> 
> Many people forget the option d in of all this, which is not to choose, not to wear a black armband, not to require some sort of community support mechanism that feeds you the wrong answers to the wrong questions. Choosing to believe because so many others believe only means that the number of fools in the room has increased by one.





Scar Symmetry said:


> Spirituality is surely manmade. I'm guessing it was created by man when our brains evolved past a point where we were no longer blissfully ignorant mammals and instead we had advanced brains that had to have the answer for this, that and this, although no answer is really required.


Everyone views everything different, so each man to his own  I'm not one to debate over religion or spirituality of any shape or form as it's a never ending argument that usually goes nowhere because no one truly knows what happens in the end.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 28, 2009)

^ that's what I'm sayin' man...


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## budda (Oct 29, 2009)

DT, I really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm glad you found something you can identify with, *because it has made you happier*.

Personally, I still need to sit down and figure out where my beliefs lie, and see if there's any religion I can identify with. Christianity and religion aren't really spoken about at home, and my family's church attendance has dwindled over the years - my mother still being the most active out of 6 at our parish.

Again, thanks for the great read.


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## Dusty201087 (Oct 29, 2009)

Really like this thread. I'm glad you've found something you can identify with Drak  I was a LeVeyan satanist for years (I think I actually made a topic about it but it got locked  ) but as of late I've dropped a lot of it and taken to Buddhism a lot. Basically I agree with all their ideals save for their gods (I don't think there are actually gods, I think everything around us is connected and that everything is in control of it's own future) and their after life (pretty much I'm ready for whatever, but I think that Robert Bruce has a lot of right ideas, then again that's just me).

Seriously though, I really have noticed a difference since I could say "this is what I believe" in just a few simple words. People disagree with it all the time, and often times I know people look at me funny because I don't think what they do, but I've just become a happier person. I've literally forgotten how to hate. Doesn't mean I love everything, I just have reached an understanding that even though I have my ideas and you have yours, it really doesn't matter much. What matters is being happy.



XeoFLCL said:


> Keep in mind all religion is manmade, spirituality on the other hand is not.



I concur, btw


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 29, 2009)

To be honest I'm surprised by all the really positive responses this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would turn into a war or anything, but everyone seems supportive. Thanks.


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## Dusty201087 (Oct 30, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> To be honest I'm surprised by all the really positive responses this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would turn into a war or anything, but everyone seems supportive. Thanks.



Well my way of thinking is, if you're happy, and you're not hurting anyone, then more power to you


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 30, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Didn't know you were Jewish. Black, gay, AND Jewish. You've got it bad dude.
> 
> I'm the same way (not black, gay, or Jewish...) that I identify closely with LaVey Satanism, but I find their rituals stupid, as in any religion. I've never really talked with any Satanists as I imagine they're pretty scarce around here, not that I really consider myself one really. _*I have a feeling if I actually did find any around here they'd just be metal heads and saying they're Satanist to be cool or something.*_
> I'd say I'm more of an agnostic athiest with Satanist principles



The type of people who start 'Heavy Metal appreciation' pages on myspace? 

PS. Grym thread is grym 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> To be honest I'm surprised by all the really positive responses this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would turn into a war or anything, but everyone seems supportive. Thanks.



I'd consider myself a Modern Satanist too, after all, the definition of the word 'Satan' has many meanings throughout all of modern and common era theism.

It could mean 'The wanderer', 'The Accuser' - It also symbolizes free will and freedom of thought.


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## Setnakt (Oct 30, 2009)

Koshchei said:


> ^ This describes my views. I am not a Satanist; I am a misanthrope.



I'm not that big on "misanthropy" being considered a systemic philosophical perspective. However, if you relate to the language and resolution of the Mysterious Stranger then you sir are a solipsist. I recommend Schopenhauer (The World as Will and Idea).


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 30, 2009)

Dusty201087 said:


> Well my way of thinking is, if you're happy, and you're not hurting anyone, then more power to you


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## RenegadeDave (Oct 30, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> There's a few of those. Set is one. Those, if I'm not mistaken, are more along the lines of Theistic Satanism. I could be wrong. Now I get to answer the "Do you mutilate cats" questions for the rest of my life....



Not quite, they believe in mysticism somewhat. 

You can read about it here: 

Xeper.org - Welcome!


An excerpt recounting their philosophy. 



> Conventional religions, with their colorful mythologies analyzed in terms of the underlying philosophical principles, represent simply the primitive longing of man to feel &#8220;at one&#8221; with the Universal harmony he perceives about him. &#8220;White&#8221; magic, as advocated by primitive pagan and modern institutional religions, offers devotees the illusion of &#8220;re-inclusion&#8221; in the Universal scheme of things through various ritualistic devotions and superstitions.
> 
> The Black Magician, on the other hand, rejects both the desirability of union with the Universe and any self-deceptive antics designed to create such an illusion. He has considered the existence of the individual psyche - the &#8220;core you&#8221; of your conscious intelligence - and has taken satisfaction from its existence as something unlike anything else in the Universe. The Black Magician desires this psyche to live, to experience, and to continue. He does not wish to die - or to lose his consciousness and identity in a larger, Universal consciousness [assuming that such exists]. He wants to be. This decision in favor of individual existence is the first premise of the Temple of Set.
> 
> ...



I nearly joined simply because i found it fascinating and I bet they have awesome books to read.

EDIT: read further on the site: You're right. There's a "communicating with Set" link in the library.


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## estabon37 (Oct 30, 2009)

Awesome thread so far, let's keep it rolling! 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dawkins yet. For the amount of 'athiests and agnostics' here, I just assumed more people might have read a book like 'The God Delusion'. Really helped put things into perspective for me.

I guess the only issue I have with the concept of wanting to know where you stand spiritually/religiously/socially is that after having a nice, long think about it most people then just choose the religion (or relevent social group) closest to that mindset. Why? I can't help the feeling that it's unnecessary. I understand _how _people come to feel this way, but I don't understand why. Removing the religious or spiritual labels (Hi Tiger!) won't make you feel any differently. That seems to me to be what athiesm is. It's not that you don't follow the word of God, it's that God and spirituality don't exist to you and you shouldn't feel the need to fill that aspect of your life with something else whether it be Buddhism, Satanism, Teletubbism, etc...

Just play guitar and watch Buffy.


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## headibanez (Oct 31, 2009)

there is one common phrase used in this thread
"my way"
or "my thoughts"
what we as humans think does not matter at all,i can believe that cancer does not exist but i will still die if i dont get treatment, estabon 37 said "if they dont exist to you"
there is an absolute truth,for everyone,we can try and deny it but the God who created the universe,is the absolute.
i am always baffled when people who claim to be very intelligent say something so juvenile and ignorant as "i think its this way" and then magically it is. i am in no way being hateful, just frustrated that religous ideas somehow=intelligance


as i said there is one truth, and that truth is Jesus Christ

pm me with any questions

do not correct my grammer


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## TomAwesome (Oct 31, 2009)

headibanez said:


> there is one common phrase used in this thread
> "my way"
> or "my thoughts"
> what we as humans think does not matter at all,i can believe that cancer does not exist but i will still die if i dont get treatment, estabon 37 said "if they dont exist to you"
> ...



Your beliefs about God and Jesus Christ are still just that: your beliefs. You're being hypocritical about your statement about others' "juvenile and ignorant" statements about what they think is true. You're doing the exact same thing. Yes, there is only one thing that will turn out to be the truth, but who are you to say that your beliefs are the "right" ones? Who is anybody to say that?


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## widdlywhaa (Oct 31, 2009)

Arguing with him is only going to start a circular argument.

as everyone else here has stated that they are content with other people having different faiths.... this guy is just a zealot out to convert or insult nothing more.


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## TomAwesome (Oct 31, 2009)

Quite possibly, but I hope it doesn't come to that. This is the first religious thread in a long time on this forum that hasn't quickly devolved into flaming and bickering. I rather enjoyed being able to actually discuss religion without having to deal with people arguing pointlessly about it. I hope this thread either stays that way or dies before it gets to the bickering.


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## widdlywhaa (Oct 31, 2009)

yeah, I for one am stoked for Drak that he has found something he can relate his life to. just because I don't want for religion of faith doesn't mean that others don't...... i mean shit I don't want a 9 string guitar but oh wait a sec how many people on here actually own them .

as has been stated many times before Strokes for Folks.


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## Varcolac (Oct 31, 2009)

headibanez said:


> frustrated that religous ideas somehow=intelligance
> 
> 
> as i said there is one truth, and that truth is Jesus Christ



Yeah, those religious ideas really aren't intelligent.

What people think _does_ matter. It doesn't change the fundamental nature of the universe, but we live in a world governed not by crude principles of physics but by the interaction of human beings who, having the power of independent thought and the myriad variations of the human psyche, make for a world in which thought and opinion have far more currency than they should in your idealised world with an "absolute truth." There are absolute truths in physics, but trying to apply absolute values to such inherently fluid human constructs as morality and faith is like trying to use a bowling ball as a balloon.

So I can appear "Fair And Balanced", Satanism's kind of dumb too. It's far too inward-looking in my opinion, and the attaching of ritual and spiritual significance to otherwise practical self-interest seems like a total waste of time. 

Of course, I'm happy you've found something you can belong to/believe in/mutilate cats to. Okay, maybe not the third one. Just 'cause I believe in nothing doesn't mean I've got to convince you to join the club (mainly because I don't believe in clubs! ).


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Quite possibly, but I hope it doesn't come to that. This is the first religious thread in a long time on this forum that hasn't quickly devolved into flaming and bickering. I rather enjoyed being able to actually discuss religion without having to deal with people arguing pointlessly about it. I hope this thread either stays that way or dies before it gets to the bickering.



It won't close because:
*
1) This isn't grounds to argue who's right. If he believes in Jesus then he has every right to. Beyond that, it's wise to ignore posts that solicit argument.

2) This thread isn't about taking offense to someone else's belief. If you have a problem with it, send them a PM to talk about it. Don't do it here.*



Varcolac said:


> Of course, I'm happy you've found something you can belong to/believe in/mutilate cats to. Okay, maybe not the third one. Just 'cause I believe in nothing doesn't mean I've got to convince you to join the club (mainly because I don't believe in clubs! ).



It's not really having something to belong to. The Bible says there's nothing new under the sun, which is entirely true. All the beliefs and ideas you have, have already been established by someone else. In my case, Satanism houses the congregated thoughts I've had for a long time. It does teach to stand on your own and think for yourself. It teaches a sort of mental isolation which I've always cherished and I think lots of Satanists would agree that their belief isn't about belonging to escape that human fear of being alone, and to me that's important. Obviously the catch here goes back to the first part of this, no matter how "different" you're thinking or being, it's been done before so you still fall into some category whether you choose to realize it or not. You can't truly be unique..it's impossible, but as long as you think for yourself the category you happen to fall into will be an honest one. When it fits it fits.

You can't escape a label..but if nothing else I have a label that fits instead of trying to evade them and inevitably failing in the long run. I used to hate the idea of "siding with a religion"..but no matter what you think there's a name for it and to me it's silly to strive so hard to be an individual. You are who and what you are, you'll stand out in some ways and conform in others. I think it was that struggle that bothered me for so long and I didn't even know it. By realizing my thoughts and views were based in Satanism, all that energy used to aggressively deny all conformity turned to happiness. I'm still me, just happier and with a spiritual confidence I didn't know I didn't have. It was also something I didn't know was bothering me not to have.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

headibanez said:


> do not correct my grammer



This is the part that kills me 

He comes in here insulting other people's intelligence, doesn't bother using correct grammar, spelling or punctuation, then ends with this because he knows his post is fucked up


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

headibanez said:


> there is one common phrase used in this thread
> "my way"
> or "my thoughts"
> what we as humans think does not matter at all,i can believe that cancer does not exist but i will still die if i dont get treatment, estabon 37 said "if they dont exist to you"
> ...



ok... well can i correct your spelling??? you spelled grammar wrong and intelligent people spell intelligence correctly. also, what you wrote doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. you blindly follow something and want to cram it down people's throat as "absolute truth"

if it's juvenile and ignorant to "believe" something and to say that it "just is" then why is that exactly what you're doing? you haven't provided us with any details as to what makes this "God" you worship the absolute. if you tell me to read the Bible then i swear to [your] god you're lucky i'm physically around to bitch slap you...

better yet...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Ruh roh, we've been down this road before


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Ruh roh, we've been down this road before


noted... i just have no patience for the pot calling the kettle black.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> noted... i just have no patience for the pot calling the kettle black.



What about African kettle?


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> What about African kettle?


Exactly...  

On a more serious note, are you not familiar with that term?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Yes, I just thought I'd throw the race card in there.

Why are you questioning me? It's because I'm white isn't it?


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

How'd you know? It's because you're white and haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior... I'm trying to *help* you, JJ. 

Alright.. I'm that's enough with that. I'm starting to have flashbacks of missionaries (the position) past... 

/off topic


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## headibanez (Oct 31, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> ok... well can i correct your spelling??? you spelled grammar wrong and intelligent people spell intelligence correctly. also, what you wrote doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. you blindly follow something and want to cram it down people's throat as "absolute truth"
> 
> if it's juvenile and ignorant to "believe" something and to say that it "just is" then why is that exactly what you're doing? you haven't provided us with any details as to what makes this "God" you worship the absolute. if you tell me to read the Bible then i swear to [your] god you're lucky i'm physically around to bitch slap you...
> 
> better yet...




thats why i said to pm me, i didnt want to be putting bible verses on the post, my main thing was to say that people who are arogant and believe they are intelligent because they have found some belief system bothers me, but its funny how one person says ," im a satanist", and a ten page discussion starts, i say ," jesus is truth", and the hatred starts.

why would i be banned for my beliefs?
i simply gave my opinion and did not attack anyone

also im sorry that i never took a typing class


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Sorry about your thread Drak, it was good while it lasted.

And the problem people had is that while we are having an open discussion on belief systems, ie "it's cool what you believe, here's what I believe" you come in, basically insulting our intelligence, saying it doesn't matter what we think, and that you're right and we're wrong.

And if you want to insult someone's intelligence and have a conversation on an intellectual level, you better make damn sure you can keep up


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

headibanez said:


> thats why i said to pm me, i didnt want to be putting bible verses on the post, my main thing was to say that people who are arogant and believe they are intelligent because they have found some belief system bothers me, but its funny how one person says ," im a satanist", and a ten page discussion starts, i say ," jesus is truth", and the hatred starts.
> 
> why would i be banned for my beliefs?
> i simply gave my opinion and did not attack anyone
> ...


ok cool


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## Setnakt (Oct 31, 2009)

So Drak, have you read the Satanic Rituals, and are you into the ritual practicing at all?

I do like that LaVey recognized the psychological benefit of rituals even when you can admit a lack of absolutely relevant content; that attitude is actually something that philosophers and sociologists appreciate, so you don't necessarily have to pretend that there's an invisible superhero watching you do it for it to be something you can admit that you benefit from.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

^ I think he mentioned earlier that he thinks the rituals are silly. That may have been someone else who said that but I think it was Drakkar. 

Honestly I think a lot of the rituals in most religions look silly as well. I can agree with a lot of principles in a lot of different religions but when they get into the supernatural stuff and all the strange rituals that are supposed to symbolize supernatural events I just completely lose interest. 

I like Rasta for a lot of reasons. In a way it's basically Christianity with an afrocentric twist, but that's not really the part of it that appeals to me. I like that they chose a prophet who exemplified a "righteous" path w/o proclaiming himself the son of god. He let others make that connection. I also like their view of women. I've noticed in a lot of Christian societies, although the woman seems to be respected, I've seen that in the Bible it says that the woman is second to man (wording may vary) and I'm not sure what they mean by that exactly, but that sounds bad to me. Rastas view the woman's job in the home (whatever it may be) as equal to man simply because it needs to be done. 

Not only that, but if you'll suspend your state of disbelief for a while and say that there actually is a God who created all life... That's more or less what the woman does here. Sure, she needs the man's "seed" (so we've got the chicken and the egg conundrum here--well, kind of) but w/o a woman none of us would be here. So in a way I see them as mini gods (some of them anyway...).

Then again there are things that more or less every religion shares... Don't kill people, lie, blah, blah... 

But no matter what the case, I feel like supposing I'm wrong and there actually IS some god who is going to judge me at the end of my life there's absolutely no way he can find fault in me if I don't [intentionally] screw anyone else over along my path... 

I don't really know how I got here, but whatever... I think the point I was originally trying to make was that rituals always remind me of cults, but that's not exactly where we ended up. Maybe this is why they recommend you don't drink before noon. 

/ramble


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Setnakt said:


> So Drak, have you read the Satanic Rituals, and are you into the ritual practicing at all?
> 
> I do like that LaVey recognized the psychological benefit of rituals even when you can admit a lack of absolutely relevant content; that attitude is actually something that philosophers and sociologists appreciate, so you don't necessarily have to pretend that there's an invisible superhero watching you do it for it to be something you can admit that you benefit from.



Well, I guess for me since I don't see the value in doing rituals for nothing, there's no psychological benefit to me 

That includes funerals and weddings. Both seem really boring and pointless to me.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> ^ I think he mentioned earlier that he thinks the rituals are silly. That may have been someone else who said that but I think it was Drakkar.



Was probably me.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

Setnakt said:


> So Drak, have you read the Satanic Rituals, and are you into the ritual practicing at all?
> 
> I do like that LaVey recognized the psychological benefit of rituals even when you can admit a lack of absolutely relevant content; that attitude is actually something that philosophers and sociologists appreciate, so you don't necessarily have to pretend that there's an invisible superhero watching you do it for it to be something you can admit that you benefit from.



I ordered the book..waiting for it to arrive. I have read up on various Satanic rituals and whereas I see the point in them, but I don't see myself taking them seriously. I wouldn't be opposed to exploring them more closely, but yes it was me, I do find them a bit silly. I'm still on the fence about LaVey to be honest..he has good points when you can get past how he puts things (the Satanic Bible for instance while insightful, made him seem like a nut).



JJ Rodriguez said:


> Well, I guess for me since I don't see the value in doing rituals for nothing, there's no psychological benefit to me
> 
> That includes funerals and weddings. Both seem really boring and pointless to me.



I don't do funerals, weddings, birthdays, or any holiday for that matter. I don't do anniversaries or anything of the sort. I don't tell people when my birthday is and those that happen to know know that it's no use in mentioning it to me. I find mundane ritual to just be stupid since it's seriously deviated from the point, and the original point wasn't all that smart to begin with.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I ordered the book..waiting for it to arrive. I have read up on various Satanic rituals and whereas I see the point in them, but I don't see myself taking them seriously. I wouldn't be opposed to exploring them more closely, but yes it was me, I do find them a bit silly. I'm still on the fence about LaVey to be honest..he has good points when you can get past how he puts things (the Satanic Bible for instance while insightful, made him seem like a nut).
> 
> 
> 
> I don't do funerals, weddings, birthdays, or any holiday for that matter. I don't do anniversaries or anything of the sort. I don't tell people when my birthday is and those that happen to know know that it's no use in mentioning it to me. I find mundane ritual to just be stupid since it's seriously deviated from the point, and the original point wasn't all that smart to begin with.



I will admit I do enjoy Christmas and birthdays because people will buy you things. There's usually the pressure to do some dumb shit simply because you're another year older but I'm usually able to resist simply because I don't need any trouble. 

Easter and Halloween are awesome because of the candy and Mama ALWAYS cooks something wonderful on Easter. Same goes for Thanksgiving and Xmas. 

EDIT: Although in retrospect, Thankgiving is a little strange... We show thanks for what we have by by eating way more than we need...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> I will admit I do enjoy Christmas and birthdays because people will buy you things. There's usually the pressure to do some dumb shit simply because you're another year older but I'm usually able to resist simply because I don't need any trouble.
> 
> Easter and Halloween are awesome because of the candy and Mama ALWAYS cooks something wonderful on Easter. Same goes for Thanksgiving and Xmas.
> 
> EDIT: Although in retrospect, Thankgiving is a little strange... We show thanks for what we have by by eating way more than we need...



That's the thing for me...I give gifts and invite people over or whatever when I feel like it. Doing it that way, for me, is more sincere. Buying a Valentines,birthday,Christmas gift or having people over for Easter or something is just done out of ritual..because it's "what you're supposed to do". In the same token, I don't accept birthday or holiday gifts, I thank the person for the offer, explain that I don't really do such things, and leave it at that.

As for Thanksgiving, I partially do that only because..well....I have to eat..but I don't really do the family thing (as it's done at my house). I either find somewhere else to be, or I eat beforehand and stay out of sight. This is mainly because I'm not too fond of my family, but for the aforementioned reasons as well. I do cook with my family on that day mainly because I like to cook and it's really the only time I have a hand in doing an elaborate spread (plus I don't have to clean the kitchen on my own, which I HATE doing). And seeing as though technically my family shouldn't be doing Thanksgiving as they're Jehovah's Witnesses, I opt not to bring it up. There are worse crimes to commit right?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

I do the Christmas/Thanksgiving dinner thing because it's about the only time my family gets together, and I do get presents and give them to very few people, like immediate family. Friends and stuff are starting to get the idea that I don't want birthday/Christmas presents from them  Friends ask me what I'd like for my birthday, and I say "nothing". If I want something I go buy it.

Everything I want is expensive anyways, can't very well ask friends/family to buy me a $1000 preamp or cabinet


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## guitarplayerone (Oct 31, 2009)

having been a satanist since I was 12 years old or so and recently having become agnostic.

I think that there is a problem with all religious identities as they promote a schism between different cultures. Including satanism. The problem imo with satanism isn't the concepts behind it (even though LaVey is a con artist IMO), it's the issue that you can never improve the world by being a satanist. it's the epitome of self-serving, self-centered religion. And I have come to think that improving the world and improving the self not only aren't mutually exclusive (lol double negative), this is the only way to truly and permanently achieve either goal.

edit: and I totally agree with you about taking personal responsibility for bringing joy to people. just in my experience, positivity and satanism are never fully compatible, and this i only learned when I abandoned it

Granted, I salute you for not choosing any other western religion


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Everything I want is expensive anyways, can't very well ask friends/family to buy me a $1000 preamp or cabinet



That's the other thing. The things I want are expensive, and I surely wouldn't have anyone break the bank to buy me new amps, custom guitars, etc.

Not to mention that seeing as though I'm the "oddball" to everyone I know, the gifts I receive are always something COMPLETELY fucking stupid. The figure "oh he's weird, he'll like this" and it just shows how off they are in figuring me out. So to eliminate awkward moments (because I HAVE to tell them that it was stupid, but only in nicer terms. I'm not the "oh...this is.....nice" type. This way they can take it back, get their money back and call it even), I don't take occasion gifts from people.



guitarplayerone said:


> having been a satanist since I was 12 years old or so and recently having become agnostic.
> 
> I think that there is a problem with all religious identities as they promote a schism between different cultures. Including satanism. The problem imo with satanism isn't the concepts behind it (even though LaVey is a con artist IMO), it's the issue that you can never improve the world by being a satanist. it's the epitome of self-serving, self-centered religion. And I have come to think that improving the world and improving the self not only aren't mutually exclusive (lol double negative), this is the only way to truly and permanently achieve either goal.
> 
> ...



I gathered that there seemed to be a negative aspect in all of Satanic thought. On one end, I applaud that as I'm skeptical of anything overly positive, and on the other end I think that view varies from person to person. If anything Satanism has taught me to be nicer and more generous, but to those who deserve it. Happiness is something that should be shared, however even I know there's a limit. I'm by no means an optimistic or positive person and whereas I do believe in trying to be a good person (good is defined by ones own standards), Satanism to me teaches to not let positivity and stupidity remain constant bedfellows.

I'm not really trying to make the world a better place as I don't think such a thing is possible, but I do believe in treating others with various levels of respect. I believe in using what you learn about yourself and what you learn about others to make you a better person..and I suppose ultimately that is playing a small part in hindering the complete decay of the word. Not everyone is a bloodthirsty disrespectful heathen, so some of us aren't doing the world major damage.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

people don't buy me stuff (other than beers and i usually get to smoke a whole bunch for free) because they know they'd have to come w/ a J Custom or something equally ridiculous. i think it's safe to assume that the things most people here want are expensive 

i only give gifts to people that i think "deserve" them and i make sure it's always something meaningful. 

last year i wrote personalized letters to each person i gave a gift to and they actually seemed to like that more than whatever noisy flashy thing i got them from best buy... 

basically i'm usually kind of cold to most people and i don't really mean to be, that's just how i am. so holidays are the random times that i break that momentarily simply for the sake of not stealing someone else's joy hehe...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't want to make the world a better place. I'm an extremely negative person  In fact, if I could make the world a worse place for a lot of people I think I probably would


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

i don't necessarily wanna make it a better place... i want to make it better for myself and i figure if i keep the people around me happy (w/o going too far out of my way of course), they're less likely to try to make me unhappy... 

of course that isn't always true for all people but when i find those people i find ways to get them out of my life...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> i don't necessarily wanna make it a better place... i want to make it better for myself and i figure if i keep the people around me happy (w/o going too far out of my way of course), they're less likely to try to make me unhappy...
> 
> of course that isn't always true for all people but when i find those people i find ways to get them out of my life...



Preeeettty much this right here.

It's telling me that I have to spread rep around before giving it again...I haven't given anyone anything...wtf. Well when it does..consider yourself rep'd.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

haha that's weird...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Oct 31, 2009)

Oh...I see...it'll let me give it to JJ...but it won't let me give it to the BLACK man..and you know I gives it to the black man.


Wait......


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

racism...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 31, 2009)

That's because black people will just steal the rep anyways.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2009)

"oh no he didn't..."


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 1, 2009)




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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 1, 2009)

What are you talking about? Black people love me.

Black People Love Us!

White People Black People Funny Flash


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 1, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> What are you talking about? Black people love me.
> 
> Black People Love Us!
> 
> White People Black People Funny Flash



I heard that last one a while ago..I always go around singing it and people think I'm nuts....it's a catchy song


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 1, 2009)

It is. It really explains race relations in a way I can relate to.


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## CrushingAnvil (Nov 2, 2009)

Have you guys not clicked that 'headibanez' is Head from Korn? 

Such a typical christian attitude coming on this forum/this thread and saying 'Jesus is the truth'. What does that even mean?


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## budda (Nov 2, 2009)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Have you guys not clicked that 'headibanez' is Head from Korn?
> 
> Even if it were I would happily point out to his face that his mother was a fail factory.
> 
> Such a typical christian attitude coming on this forum/this thread and saying 'Jesus is the truth'. What does that even mean?



what? hell no!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 2, 2009)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Have you guys not clicked that 'headibanez' is Head from Korn?
> 
> Even if it were I would happily point out to his face that his mother was a fail factory.
> 
> Such a typical christian attitude coming on this forum/this thread and saying 'Jesus is the truth'. What does that even mean?



Now that would be funny. Head from Korn is eyeing my threads..


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 2, 2009)

I did hear something about Head leaving Korn for religious reasons, but I think it's equally possible that this guy is just some guy who really likes Head (the "musician") and is a Jesus freak.


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## CrushingAnvil (Nov 2, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> I did hear something about Head leaving Korn for religious reasons, but I think it's equally possible that this guy is just some guy who really likes Head (the "musician") and is a Jesus freak.



Okay, who let Buzz Killington in here? 









budda said:


> what? hell no!



 yeah I actually edited that middle bit out because hes doing a really good thing over in africa 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Now that would be funny. Head from Korn is eyeing my threads..



I bet he secretly has a 'civilisation' room where he has like Ipods, guitars, amps, computers, porn, TV


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 2, 2009)




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## guitarplayerone (Nov 2, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's the other thing. The things I want are expensive, and I surely wouldn't have anyone break the bank to buy me new amps, custom guitars, etc.
> 
> Not to mention that seeing as though I'm the "oddball" to everyone I know, the gifts I receive are always something COMPLETELY fucking stupid. The figure "oh he's weird, he'll like this" and it just shows how off they are in figuring me out. So to eliminate awkward moments (because I HAVE to tell them that it was stupid, but only in nicer terms. I'm not the "oh...this is.....nice" type. This way they can take it back, get their money back and call it even), I don't take occasion gifts from people.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you dude. Just being a satanist, i could never abandon that negative, somewhat misanthropic, and somewhat nihilistic attitude, which is inherent in the religion.

And IMO most satanists never truly see the positive nature of the religion. There is always this pissing contest with 'who's more satanic' which is built into that culture. You'll notice the really successful satanist guys who still maintain that philosophy (ie Ihsahn) never got involved with that to begin with. Otherwise you are permanently stuck in the philosophy of dissociation from the rest of the world. I understand that being gay, there is that sort of feeling for you perhaps in the first place, but imo no matter what you never want to feel like you are forced to be apart from the world. Everyone always has a choice. Then again, I live in New York, so the way the community works and interacts around here might be totally different from where you live.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 2, 2009)

guitarplayerone said:


> I totally agree with you dude. Just being a satanist, i could never abandon that negative, somewhat misanthropic, and somewhat nihilistic attitude, which is inherent in the religion.
> 
> And IMO most satanists never truly see the positive nature of the religion. There is always this pissing contest with 'who's more satanic' which is built into that culture. You'll notice the really successful satanist guys who still maintain that philosophy (ie Ihsahn) never got involved with that to begin with. Otherwise you are permanently stuck in the philosophy of dissociation from the rest of the world. I understand that being gay, there is that sort of feeling for you perhaps in the first place, but imo no matter what you never want to feel like you are forced to be apart from the world. Everyone always has a choice.


I think you get that in all religions really. You get Christians trying to be holier than each other. No matter what you gotta deal with that stupid shit. Every circle has their shitty people.


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## guitarplayerone (Nov 2, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> I think you get that in all religions really. You get Christians trying to be holier than each other. No matter what you gotta deal with that stupid shit. Every circle has their shitty people.



totally. this is why i'm agnostic


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 2, 2009)




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## Setnakt (Nov 3, 2009)

> *Agnosticism* (Greek: &#945;- _a-_, without + &#947;&#957;&#974;&#963;&#953;&#962; _gn&#333;sis_, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims  particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual beings, or even ultimate reality  are unknown or, in some forms of agnosticism, unknowable.[1]It is not a religious declaration in itself, and an agnostic may also be a theist or an atheist.
> *Etymology*
> 
> 'Agnostic' was used by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1860 to describe his philosophy which rejects Gnosticism, by which he meant not simply the early 1st millennium religious group, but all claims to spiritual or mystical knowledge.



But I guess that's just being a Buzz Killington on statements of religious affiliation.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 3, 2009)

guitarplayerone said:


> I totally agree with you dude. Just being a satanist, i could never abandon that negative, somewhat misanthropic, and somewhat nihilistic attitude, which is inherent in the religion.
> 
> And IMO most satanists never truly see the positive nature of the religion. There is always this pissing contest with 'who's more satanic' which is built into that culture. You'll notice the really successful satanist guys who still maintain that philosophy (ie Ihsahn) never got involved with that to begin with. Otherwise you are permanently stuck in the philosophy of dissociation from the rest of the world. I understand that being gay, there is that sort of feeling for you perhaps in the first place, but imo no matter what you never want to feel like you are forced to be apart from the world. Everyone always has a choice. Then again, I live in New York, so the way the community works and interacts around here might be totally different from where you live.


I love negativity..which is why I'm so taken with Satanism. I think that negativity helps you see things clearly, at least in my case it does. I tend to be a little...optimistic on certain things and the optimism keeps me from seeing things clearly and preparing for the worst. Negative thought clears my mind, kills the happy cloud, and helps me plan and see things much better. For me a negative state is a productive state, as long as you don't let the negativity flow to senseless activity.

I'm a pessimist, slight nihilist, misanthrope, and all around alternate, negative thinker..so Satanism works for me just fine..and even with that belief, that pessimistic side of me refuses to agree wholeheartedly.


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## EliNoPants (Nov 3, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Eh..nothing of interest growing up. I was raised Jehovah's Witness if that factors in in any way. Was constantly the oddball for one reason or another..but I don't suppose any of that has anything to do with this choice.
> 
> Then again the Jehovah's Witness thing did..I grew to HATE the whole religious oppression thing and I hated those who enforced spiritual rules that they didn't even understand themselves.



whoa dude, me too...only i went pretty much raging atheist by the time i was 10, only i kept my goddamn mouth shut to avoid having to deal with bullshit...it took me a long time, but i no longer instantly write people off as human beings when they say they believe in something...though lately i do explain that *IF* i'm wrong about god existing, i'm still no more likely to start worshipping, in fact, i'd probably find a way to punch him in the face for not fixing shit...that one tends to ruffle feathers though


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 3, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I love negativity..which is why I'm so taken with Satanism. I think that negativity helps you see things clearly, at least in my case it does. I tend to be a little...optimistic on certain things and the optimism keeps me from seeing things clearly and preparing for the worst. Negative thought clears my mind, kills the happy cloud, and helps me plan and see things much better. For me a negative state is a productive state, as long as you don't let the negativity flow to senseless activity.
> 
> I'm a pessimist, slight nihilist, misanthrope, and all around alternate, negative thinker..so Satanism works for me just fine..and even with that belief, that pessimistic side of me refuses to agree wholeheartedly.



that sounds more like practicality than negativity...


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 3, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> that sounds more like practicality than negativity...



I agree..but most just see it as being negative.

It still won't let me rep you btw


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 3, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I agree..but most just see it as being negative.
> 
> It still won't let me rep you btw


I think they see it as negativity because some people prefer to live in that aforementioned "happy cloud" because they find reality that tough to deal with.


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## TomAwesome (Nov 3, 2009)

People often tell me that I'm ridiculously pessimistic. I always respond by telling them that I'm just being realistic. It's better to expect and prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised when you turn out to be wrong than being optimistic and being fucked when you're wrong.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 3, 2009)

Yea... I think sometimes people invest too much into things being optimistic and fail to see the obvious flaws in their plans. At which point they're much less happy than the "pessimist" who "saw it coming".


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## DaddleCecapitation (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm an atheist and I find it strange that Christians have this whole "evil" view of atheism. They say things like "If you don't believe in the Bible, how can you know what's right and what's wrong?" and I say "Uh, it's a little thing called HISTORY!!" I mean, what's the point of taking all your morals from a single piece of text that kinda went out of fashion 250 years ago?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 3, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> People often tell me that I'm ridiculously pessimistic. I always respond by telling them that I'm just being realistic. It's better to expect and prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised when you turn out to be wrong than being optimistic and being fucked when you're wrong.



This is what I always say. I always prepare for and expect the worst..that way when it happens I'm prepared to deal with it, and if it doesn't happen, then it's a pleasant surprise. It's better than "Gee I hope it all goes well". That never solves anything


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## LUCKY7 (Nov 3, 2009)




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## Konfyouzd (Nov 3, 2009)

HammettHateCrew said:


> I'm an atheist and I find it strange that Christians have this whole "evil" view of atheism. They say things like "If you don't believe in the Bible, how can you know what's right and what's wrong?" and I say "Uh, it's a little thing called HISTORY!!" I mean, what's the point of taking all your morals from a single piece of text that kinda went out of fashion 250 years ago?


Some people need to be led like sheep. Other people see the path they want to walk and walk it regardless of how other feel about it. We call those people "leaders". 

It can't be helped. 

Not that it's impossible for a Christian or any follower of any religion to be a leader, but if you don't know anything w/o religion then you've got some serious problems. A sense of right and wrong is established if a child is properly disciplined whether religion is involved or not.


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## Dusty201087 (Nov 3, 2009)

estabon37 said:


> Awesome thread so far, let's keep it rolling!
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dawkins yet. For the amount of 'athiests and agnostics' here, I just assumed more people might have read a book like 'The God Delusion'. Really helped put things into perspective for me.
> 
> ...



Hell, I'm (pretty much) a Buddhist and this is my philosophy. You don't "need" a religion to be a good person. I think it just helps to explain to other people "hey, this is what I believe". The one funny thing though, is that I tell people I'm Buddhist, so naturally (and I'm not kidding on this one) I spend 17 hours a day meditating trying to somehow "imagine myself high". Uh, nah, not that dedicated nor is that the desired result of meditation. If it was, I could just go smoke and that would be a lot easier 




JJ Rodriguez said:


> Well, I guess for me since I don't see the value in doing rituals for nothing, there's no psychological benefit to me
> 
> That includes funerals and weddings. Both seem really boring and pointless to me.



I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. I mean I guess I'm not opposed to the idea it just seems like people spend so much money on these things when they could just say, "hey, x died, lets get together and remember the good times we had with him." Just makes no sense to me 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I agree..but most just see it as being negative.
> 
> It still won't let me rep you btw



I don't even see it as being negative. I try to be a very positive person but I always try to look at things through both ways of thought, because most of the time you find a happy medium there, it seems 



HammettHateCrew said:


> I'm an atheist and I find it strange that Christians have this whole "evil" view of atheism. They say things like "If you don't believe in the Bible, how can you know what's right and what's wrong?" and I say "Uh, it's a little thing called HISTORY!!" I mean, what's the point of taking all your morals from a single piece of text that kinda went out of fashion 250 years ago?



Not only that, but it's been changed 4400+ times from it's original version (some changes were deliberate, some translation errors).

BTW, because we actually seem to be having a wonderful discussion here, does anyone else view some religions as more of a philosophy on life? Because I guess I've always heard the word "religion" and though of worshiping something, when I really don't "worship" anything. May not really matter to others, I'd just figure I'd throw this one in there


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## guitarplayerone (Nov 3, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I love negativity..which is why I'm so taken with Satanism. I think that negativity helps you see things clearly, at least in my case it does. I tend to be a little...optimistic on certain things and the optimism keeps me from seeing things clearly and preparing for the worst. Negative thought clears my mind, kills the happy cloud, and helps me plan and see things much better. For me a negative state is a productive state, as long as you don't let the negativity flow to senseless activity.
> 
> I'm a pessimist, slight nihilist, misanthrope, and all around alternate, negative thinker..so Satanism works for me just fine..and even with that belief, that pessimistic side of me refuses to agree wholeheartedly.



i was the same way when i was a satanist. it certainly worked very well for me at the time


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 7, 2009)

So I spent most of the other night, and all day at work, reading the Satanic Bible...mainly with a more open mind than I had before. The book makes perfect sense if you're not just looking for flaws as I had been last time. I read the entire book in pretty much the course of a day. A friend of mine whom I spoke to last night was telling me about her leech friend, which reminded me of the Psychic Vampires chapter in the book...I laughed...how true. I also learned a lot about the rituals performed by Satanists and it's interesting to see how they tie in with various church rituals the world over. The main difference being the Satanic rituals (in my opinion at least) are a little more constructive, as you're not actually attempting to get some deity to solve your problems for you. The greater and lesser magic explanations were insightful as well. Giving an heir of mysticism to common practices may seem unneeded to some, which I understand, by the psychology of it I think could be rather helpful to others. All in all, great reading..something I'm sure I'll be reading more than once (this is already my 3rd venture into the book..the 1st if you consider I went all the way through it and learned something this time).

I've gone onto The Devil's Handbook and The Satanic Rituals. Both are turning out to be pretty good books, The Devil's Handbook especially. It's kind of like Chicken Soup for the Satanic Soul.. I have to say, learning more about LaVey is interesting, as he and I have done a lot of the same things growing up, and his sense of humor is my kind of thing. So he wasn't the Demon Obsessed crackpot I once thought he was.


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## defchime (Nov 7, 2009)

I havent read the satanic bible myself (i plan to), but ive heard on more than one account that LaVey borrows ideas from existentialism. not that thats bad, but just to get a foundation for what his influences may have been.

Drakkar I was thinking you'd be a nihilist lol. I kind of am, I need self fulfillment to constitute my existence, but no matter what I do (we in any case) its absolutely worthless when you really think about it.

The thing about most religion (Christianity/Catholicism western religion and sects mostly) is they all say if you dont believe in what we believe your wrong, and they are extremely pretentious about this, they make it so they cant be proven wrong....which from a theoretical perspective means these religions that do this cannot be taken seriously and should be revoked as a possible "truth".

Atheism to me just seems stupid, a way to live the shallowest life. Im not getting into it because I dont have a huge problem with atheists.

To me any religion seems just stupid. Evolution is how we got here, we (absolutely everything universes galaxies etc) were once one, and time didnt need to exist because of this, then FUCKIN WHO KNOW HOW OR WHY we broke and we started to expand (time is a measuring tool for our original destruction). Science is a much more fun way of thinking about it, because it becomes an art, like thinking of things yourself disproving others...religion is no fun, its to easy to poke fun at and internally tear apart.

If I get negative rep ima b pissed, cuz if you think im wrong and that im dumb thats just you opinion and whos to say your wrong...there shouldnt be any negative rep'n on this thread because I assume everything here is valid....its a bit late now but whatever.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 7, 2009)

defchime said:


> I havent read the satanic bible myself (i plan to), but ive heard on more than one account that LaVey borrows ideas from existentialism. not that thats bad, but just to get a foundation for what his influences may have been.
> 
> Drakkar I was thinking you'd be a nihilist lol. I kind of am, I need self fulfillment to constitute my existence, but no matter what I do (we in any case) its absolutely worthless when you really think about it.
> 
> ...



Satanism takes from lots of ideas and thoughts. Even it's members have different views regarding things, yet the Satanic belief is constant. That's what I like about it. It's a religion that teaches to avoid heard mentality and question everything, thus forming your own opinion. Obviously there's nothing new under the sun, so siding completely with Satanism is an option, but there is no "Join us or die" mentality. The members of the Church Of Satan, potentially, come from all walks of live and the Church is made up of all types of people, I find it interesting that something so "evil" is a lot less dangerous given the comparison to "wholesome" religions.


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## Setnakt (Nov 7, 2009)

defchime said:


> Atheism to me just seems stupid, a way to live the shallowest life.
> 
> To me any religion seems just stupid.



So are you saying atheism is a religion? Or are you just calling everyone stupid?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 7, 2009)

Setnakt said:


> So are you saying atheism is a religion? Or are you just calling everyone stupid?



That's not what he said. He said the idea of atheism is stupid.


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## Setnakt (Nov 8, 2009)

I just looked again, there was no mention of any "idea" of atheism. This is his direct quote:


> Atheism to me just seems stupid, a way to live the shallowest life.


So the argument he's making is that there's a way to live a more "substantial" life that contrasts with atheism, which is apparently a lifestyle now?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 8, 2009)

Setnakt said:


> I just looked again, there was no mention of any "idea" of atheism. This is his direct quote:
> 
> So the argument he's making is that there's a way to live a more "substantial" life that contrasts with atheism, which is apparently a lifestyle now?



He thinks atheism is stupid...don't take offense. He didn't say the people were..thus..the idea of atheism is stupid. If you don't agree, then don't agree. Or better yet, ask him in PM.


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## defchime (Nov 8, 2009)

I am not saying atheism is a religion, and im not saying everyone stupid. 

Drakkar was right I was saying the idea of it....but really if I think the idea of it is stupid then people who believe a stupid idea are then deemed stupid. 

But like I said I dont want to get into it. Atheism is to broad of a generalization to make statements as I did I guess.


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## Setnakt (Nov 8, 2009)

So what would you say is a "smart" theological position? If not theism, and not atheism?


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## defchime (Nov 8, 2009)

well, my saying of a position as smart would obviously be my own otherwise I would be stupid.

you defending atheism makes you seem to be an atheist, and if not then your just picking a fight for no reason. 


back on track...I personally believe (me being the smart person still) God does not exist, because we are all a part of a whole or part of "god". Meaning theology is "stupid". 

also, I reject the statement "im not saying everyone stupid." because everyone is stupid....

Also, you may noticed i said "im not getting into it" and what your making me do is "get into it"...so im done here unless you want to bombard me with more subjective questions.


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## Setnakt (Nov 8, 2009)

defchime said:


> God does not exist


That is what it means to be an atheist.



> also, I reject the statement "im not saying everyone stupid." because everyone is stupid....


I'm not debating this point, and I don't disagree, I just like to be clear.

To say that you're not going to get into it after you have already gotten into it by making blanket statements about ideas or people being stupid is a little suspect. Yes, I am an atheist, and so long as you are not actively convinced in the existence of a deity, so are you. I'm not offended by you insulting atheists, but as long as we're talking theology or philosophy, I just like clarity in my discussions.


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## defchime (Nov 9, 2009)

okay, i guess i could be considered an atheist. But the reason i didnt want to get into it was because its to hard to explain all this but here it goes....if you believe that everything in existence is a part of "god" or a deity is that not believing in the existence of one? I meant god does not exist as in a creationist god or intelligently designed god...god is not a tangible thing, we (everything) theoretically were one, and we're slowly expanding. Its at this state of origin, that we were god, a zero dimensional being....

you could say I believe in the existence of a deity, but in my context the existence of that deity has been destroyed by the separation and expanding of the universe from the fucked up initiation I said before. Does that still make it/us a deity (from what I hear satanism talks about believing you are god and the devil)? God is the simplistic perfection that we were once part of.

I find this whole conversation actually quite interesting, the ball is on your side of the court.


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## samurai7drew (Nov 9, 2009)

defchime said:


> if you believe that everything in existence is a part of "god" or a deity is that not believing in the existence of one? I meant god does not exist as in a creationist god or intelligently designed god...god is not a tangible thing, we (everything) theoretically were one, and we're slowly expanding. Its at this state of origin, that we were god, a zero dimensional being....
> 
> you could say I believe in the existence of a deity, but in my context the existence of that deity has been destroyed by the separation and expanding of the universe from the fucked up initiation I said before. Does that still make it/us a deity (from what I hear satanism talks about believing you are god and the devil)? God is the simplistic perfection that we were once part of.



Your message is becoming slightly convoluted by several mis-informed (or mis-interpreted) statements and/or sweeping generalizations. It sounds like you're definition of a God is more of a symbolic one representing the concept of universal wholeness throughout time/space? But this separation/expansion of the universe (a bi-product of time/space) has destroyed God? What pupose or meaning is there for you, significantly, to refer to anything as a God. I'm missing the (potentially symbolic?) connection.

What you are basing your "God" on is not something that has the characteristics of a theistic god, based on the information you gave.

It _is_ possible to be spiritual without being a theist. Most connections between people and a reference to "God", tangible or not, imply (at least) a spiritual relationship to the way you approach life and your surroundings (if not a theistic/worshiping approach).

It's hard to tell what kind of weight you are giving to the word "God" in this situation and what your belief (or lack of belief) entails. Which, right now, is making it hard to call you an atheist OR a theist, IMO. It sounds like you're uncomfortable with both.

I think the "God" that certain satanists refer to is a symbolic one, embodying the _ideas_ and _self-empowerment/importance_ modeled from theistic Gods in history. I don't think satanists believe in any real form of a God.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 9, 2009)

samurai7drew said:


> I think the "God" that certain satanists refer to is a symbolic one, embodying the _ideas_ and _self-empowerment/importance_ modeled from theistic Gods in history. I don't think satanists believe in any real form of a God.



This


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## defchime (Nov 9, 2009)

samurai7drew said:


> It sounds like you're definition of a God is more of a symbolic one representing the concept of universal wholeness throughout time/space? But this separation/expansion of the universe (a bi-product of time/space) has destroyed God? What pupose or meaning is there for you, significantly, to refer to anything as a God. I'm missing the (potentially symbolic?) connection.




I was referring to god as being a symbol of when the expansion did not occur, when everything was one. Its easier to say god then it is to explain this original state hence why I say god.

I guess you could say Im an Atheist-Satanic-Evolutionist-Existentialist-Nihilist-Canadian lol.


Edit- im done here, im sorry I said atheism is stupid...im a bit stupid....but that could be the part atheist lol


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 9, 2009)

defchime said:


> I was referring to god as being a symbol of when the expansion did not occur, when everything was one. Its easier to say god then it is to explain this original state hence why I say god.
> 
> I guess you could say Im an Atheist-Satanic-Evolutionist-Existentialist-Nihilist-Canadian lol.
> 
> ...



YOU'RE A WITCH! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!!!


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## defchime (Nov 9, 2009)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> YOU'RE A WITCH! OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!!!



A friend of mines mother is wiccan...she didnt like when she found us playing drunken Ouija...or when we inverted her pentagram...lol fun times.....


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 9, 2009)

defchime said:


> A friend of mines mother is wiccan...she didnt like when she found us playing drunken Ouija...or when we inverted her pentagram...lol fun times.....



I'm currently enjoying the concept of Satanic magic. What it actually is, is rather harmless, but magic+satanism=Christian heart attack. I'll challenge a Wiccan to a wizard duel to see who wins. I'll have Dumbledore referee.


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## budda (Nov 9, 2009)

he is a pretty fair ref.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 9, 2009)

No, he'll side with Drak.

Dumbledore is gay - The Globe and Mail

Gays always stick together.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 9, 2009)

hehehe.....stick....


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## BlackMetalVenom (Nov 15, 2009)

*Heard of my ways you have not? 
Couldn't resist.


Also, * <---true saviour.
*


May the force be with you. 







*


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Nov 15, 2009)

BlackMetalVenom said:


> Also, [/B][/FONT] <---true saviour.
> *
> 
> 
> ...




Lol, Frog Jesus


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## MorbidTravis (Nov 17, 2009)

.,


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> It's pretty much basically that. I consider myself an agnostic atheist as I vehemently don't believe in any God or deity, but at the same time I'm not so arrogant as to say I definitely know that my point of view is definitive.



I don't feel you or any other Atheist are "Arrogant" for stating "there is no god" (lower case g). It's the believer's responsibility to demonstrate any evidence which of course, they don't have. The arrogance is actually in the believer who claims to have the most important of answers but yet, has no evidence to offer AND gets "offended" when someone questions that so called knowledge. We Atheists simply have the responsibility of rebuttal. 

I also hate it when believers say things like Evolution is "only a theory" and god belief must be taken seriously. A theory is something already PROVEN to be fact with gaps in the information. What believers actually have is a "Hypothesis" which is an idea with no proof whatsoever!

Thank you!


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Yeah, I'm more of an athiest, in that I'm fairly certain there's no higher power. However, I won't deny the remote possibility that there is something. I think the biggest difference in the way an athiest things vs a religious person is that if you could show undeniable, scientific proof that there was no god (not that such a thing is possible) to a religious person, they would deny it as a test of faith. You show undeniable and scientific proof that god did in fact exist to an athiest and you'd probably be greeted with "....Well shit....didn't see that one coming".
> 
> I will say however that in the remote possibility there is a god, I highly doubt it's the Christian one, or one that actually gives a shit about all those rules.



Nah, I actually take a stand and say: "I'm an Atheist and I don't believe in an all knowing, all powerful being with no beginning or end and possesses no shape or characteristics for an identity"!!!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Wow..thanks for bumping this 100 year old thread..I think the OP is dead by now.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Apr 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Nah, I actually take a stand and say: "I'm an Atheist and I don't believe in an all knowing, all powerful being with no beginning or end and possesses no shape or characteristics for an identity"!!!



Yeah, I don't believe in one either. However I don't deny the remote possibility that one such being MIGHT exist, however slim. I'm not so arrogant to just say "There is no god, and there is no possibility that one exists".

I will say that if I did believe in the Christian God, I'd be more inclined to worship the Christian Satan, as I'm firmly opposed to any form of tyranny, whether it be spiritual, or otherwise, and I think "worship me or forever burn in hell" qualifies.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Well...since this is here....I'll do an update:

I never joined the Church Of Satan..not against it in any way, and I'd possibly like to at some point, but I think if I did, it would be to pursue and active membership and I don't really have the time for that now. Maybe when I get my shit together I will..it sounds like a plan to me.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Apr 2, 2010)

Like they'd take a wiener monger like you anyways.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Like they'd take a wiener monger like you anyways.



Wouldn't that be a good qualification to have if I was joining the Sin Syndicate?


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## Evil7 (Apr 2, 2010)

You guys seem to know alot about the terms and identifying how someone believes..... Someone help me put a name to what i think is my religion?
If i think there may be a creator because this world is so perfectly timed with systems that depend on eachother... Food chains.. Math in nature.. ect.... 
But i hate every organized religion.... and think man is so arogant to think he knows for sure ...to have faith in blind unknowing....
I dont think any words written in a book by man could be the truth about this world...
I think there is a reason for our lifes and this life is set up like a test of multi-choice decisions we have to make.... In school i learned that anything with a time limit and multichoice options is a test.
What would you call me?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> You guys seem to know alot about the terms and identifying how someone believes..... Someone help me put a name to what i think is my religion?
> If i think there may be a creator because this world is so perfectly timed with systems that depend on eachother... Food chains.. Math in nature.. ect....
> But i hate every organized religion.... and think man is so arogant to think he knows for sure ...to have faith in blind unknowing....
> I dont think any words written in a book by man could be the truth about this world...
> ...



Stupid


































No just kidding. Agnostic would probably be it. I don't know about all the worlds religions but the whole Agnostic thing is believing that there is "something" in the way of a god out there, but not really buying into organized religion for whatever reason.


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## Adam Of Angels (Apr 2, 2010)

Agnostic is basically like saying "I believe there's something greater at play, but I don't know what it is, and I don't think we can prove what it is, so shut the fuck up already"


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## Evil7 (Apr 2, 2010)

wow thats sorta fits me.... thanks you guys.... I have not cared about peoples religions enough to learn the meaning of agnostic. This must make me a true agnostic


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> wow thats sorta fits me.... thanks you guys.... I have not cared about peoples religions enough to learn the meaning of agnostic. This must make me a true agnostic



Now to find the God you think exists..you need to kill the family pet, draw symbols on the wall with it's blood, play Diamanda Galas backwards, get naked and dance around to it, using the pet as a loincloth. I swear it works everytime.


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## Evil7 (Apr 2, 2010)

lol.... something as complex as a clock just will not build itself it seems.  I dont even think I need to try to find a god here..... I havent seen proof that anyone else has yet.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Apr 2, 2010)

OMG i hope u burn in hell phag


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Stealthtastic said:


> OMG i hope u burn in hell phag



YOU BLASHPEMOUS FUCK!!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Apr 2, 2010)

You should probably fedEx me your JSX


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Stealthtastic said:


> You should probably fedEx me your JSX



Sure..FedEx me your ass


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Yeah, I don't believe in one either. However I don't deny the remote possibility that one such being MIGHT exist, however slim. I'm not so arrogant to just say "There is no god, and there is no possibility that one exists".
> 
> I will say that if I did believe in the Christian God, I'd be more inclined to worship the Christian Satan, as I'm firmly opposed to any form of tyranny, whether it be spiritual, or otherwise, and I think "worship me or forever burn in hell" qualifies.



I'll go as far to say that the type of god most people in the world believe in doesn't exist! Just like I don't leave the possibility open for the tooth fairy's existence. Christians, Muslims etc, often say things like "God/Allah exist"!
That's pure arrogance. Atheists saying something like "Show me" or "You're full of shit" is NOT arrogant.

What's happening now is that the idea of what god is, is changing as Science makes new discoveries. The god people think of now is less like the man with the white beard and white robe. More people see god more like an abstract idea saying things like "God is the universe" or things like that. As Science advances, people's idea of what god is morphs.


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## maxident213 (Apr 2, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> play Diamanda Galas backwards



That's a bone-chilling idea.... DG's music is whacked enough as it is. 

+rep for that one.


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## signalgrey (Apr 2, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> I'll go as far to say that the type of god most people in the world believe in doesn't exist! Just like I don't leave the possibility open for the tooth fairy's existence. Christians, Muslims etc, often say things like "God/Allah exist"!
> That's pure arrogance. Atheists saying something like "Show me" or "You're full of shit" is NOT arrogant.



thats just the other side of the coin, its still arrogant. the burden of proof. one could simply (and quite often) retort with "prove that god doesnt exist", it doesnt go anywhere.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> thats just the other side of the coin, its still arrogant. the burden of proof. one could simply (and quite often) retort with "prove that god doesnt exist", it doesnt go anywhere.



It's arrogance to claim certainty one way or the other. I don't "demand" proof of god anymore than I "demand" proof of no god. I have my opinions based on knowledge and experience..I recognize that even with that I still have no clue..and I keep it moving. What annoys me are the people on both sides who just have to show you how they're right. The arrogance is thinking you know for certain.


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## DaddleCecapitation (Apr 2, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> thats just the other side of the coin, its still arrogant. the burden of proof. one could simply (and quite often) retort with "prove that god doesnt exist", it doesnt go anywhere.


 That goes against the definition of "Burden of Proof." If someone makes a claim and they can't bring sufficient evidence, it's well in someone's power to say "I don't believe you." When someone brings up the "Prove there isn't a god" argument, there is no burden of proof because no claim was made by the athiest. Athiesm is simply lack of belief in a god.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> thats just the other side of the coin, its still arrogant. the burden of proof. one could simply (and quite often) retort with "prove that god doesnt exist", it doesnt go anywhere.



Anyone asking for proof of a negative would be a fool. All that can be done is show what IS. In doing that, one realizes what ISN'T.

It's not arrogant to say there's no god. How can it be? If someone makes a claim that sounds irrational and nutty, I'm using all available information to arrive at a rational conclusion. We're saying "Show us". They can't so therefor, no one should take the believer's claim seriously. The same goes to a Scientist who makes a claim and can't back it up.

What's funny and sad is that although believers don't have proof, they still discriminate, torture and kill those who don't. I've never heard Scientists do that.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

**


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## 13point9 (Apr 2, 2010)

This link below was very informative, I agree with almost everything Modern Satanism stands for, but I'm deffo an Agnostic Atheist, I just don't know whats out there heh...

What is Satanism


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## Adam Of Angels (Apr 2, 2010)

Ok, everybody needs to calm down, right now.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Ok, everybody needs to calm down, right now.



STFU NOOB!


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## Customisbetter (Apr 2, 2010)

anybody else notice that Darth bumped an archaic thread, then bumped that bump, posted a reply, then bumped it a few minutes afterwards?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 2, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> anybody else notice that Darth bumped an archaic thread, then bumped that bump, posted a reply, then bumped it a few minutes afterwards?



That's the bumpinnest fool I've ever seen


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## ry_z (Apr 2, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> YOU BLASHPEMOUS FUCK!!


----------



## Rev2010 (Apr 2, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> Someone help me put a name to what i think is my religion?
> If i think there may be a creator because this world is so perfectly timed with systems that depend on eachother... Food chains.. Math in nature.. ect....
> But i hate every organized religion.... and think man is so arogant to think he knows for sure ...to have faith in blind unknowing....
> I dont think any words written in a book by man could be the truth about this world...



My views are exactly the same, and yeah we're called agnostics. I'm more a man of science myself with the observation that there is an ordered advanced and highly intelligent system at work in the universe which makes me think there most probably was some form of intelligence behind it. But I too think it arrogant and foolhardy for any human to think we have any concept of real God and existence. I feel the truth is probably sooo sooo far from what we could ever possibly imagine that it's silly to waste one's time following mandates set down by humans. I'm in *no* way saying don't waste time poindering and thinking about God and existence, quite the contrary actually. It's setting things in stone, ceasing to question, and following the teachings of another human being that claims to follow the one true doctrine is the exact opposite of intellect.

PS. I loved that last line about time limit and multiple choice!


Rev.


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## Adam Of Angels (Apr 2, 2010)

^Excellent post - way to put it into words.


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## Brendan G (Apr 2, 2010)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Agnostic is basically like saying "I believe there's something greater at play, but I don't know what it is, and I don't think we can prove what it is, so shut the fuck up already"


Not quite, it basically just means (in the theological sense) that you're not 100% sure about "What's out there" so to speak. Most people are agnostic because to think that you're 100% certain about the supernatural is arrogant. The word you are looking for is deist.


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## Paulfocused (Apr 2, 2010)

I'm an arrogant atheist. Assonance is as awesome as apples.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 2, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> anybody else notice that Darth bumped an archaic thread, then bumped that bump, posted a reply, then bumped it a few minutes afterwards?



Damn! I didn't notice how old this thread was. I'm sorry, it was a subject that I found interesting and liked reading drakkarTyrranis's story.


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 4, 2010)

Satanism has always struck me as kind of, an odd belief. I don't know too much about it. I've read some of the Satanic Bible when i was around 16. Satan, or Lucifer was, for the most part, part of old Judeo-Christian (i know thats not a 'real' sect, but for this purpose it will work) mythology, no? I know he's popped his head up in many other ancient texts, but old-school christianity and modern fundamentalists put the most emphasis on Satan's significance. Cal me, uhh, whatever, but in my eyes I still see that as being of the Judeo-Christian group of beliefs. Sure, Christians were followers of Christ, But just not wanting to call yourself a Jew anymore and calling yourself Christian instead, doesn't mean you still aren't a Hebrew. I kind of see Satanism in the same light, I kind of label people who beleive on the mythical, or even possible historical Lucifer to still be of the Christian variety. Either most (I say most because most people I have met who call themselves Satanist, or whatever don't understand the history of their religion, and the associated baggage that comes with that label, though you seem much more knowledgeable in that area) don't understand the religion, or have just chosen to follow whatever interpretation of it they chose, be it, LeVey or whomever else.

I have met some Satanists who claim that to be a Satanist means to believe in nothing supernatural at all, (why not call yourself an atheist?), some who claim to recognize, and worship Lucifer himself, the brother of Christ. Some who say it is understanding Lucifer's teachings of humanity's 'true' relationship with the Earth (why not call yourself a Secular/Natural Humanist?). I dunno. Satanism doesn't make much sense to me. A lot of it, I'm convinced, is that because we are social creatures, many of us need to identify within a group of people, whom are like-minded, and share similar values. Its a Tribal thing. It's not only in religion; sports, Politics, and Entertainments basically operate the same way in American culture. Identifying with the local tribe, or team, or Style and Praising and upholding of that until it becomes institutionalized and accepted by others (and even worse, become offended when you are asked to objectively question said institution). I've been studying anthropology and religion for the last 2 or 3 years religiously (hehe). I still have to get to Satanism in more detail, and with orthodox Judaism, and some of the older pre-christian religions. I am not slamming your beliefs at all, but what is it that you identify with Satanism, and how do see the relevance its values hold?

I myself am an Atheist. I currently believe in nothing of Supernatural origin. no ghosts, goblins, demons, souls, spirits, fortunes, mystics or magic. Though, I am always open. I can believe almost anything within reason, if there is a good, rational, or logical reason to do so. Having evidence to back up such a claim is a definite plus! rofl. But I am always more interested in the origin of our beliefs, and why people believe them. IMO we spend far too long as a whole arguing over these things, and we need to concentrate on spending our time and effort on things that are actually tangible, and REAL. IMHO, irrelevant superstitions don't really have a place in the modern world anymore, at one point they may have served a purpose, but like the way of the VHS, they are obsolete, and in some cases even held selfishly, and have been responsible for more genocide, and baby killing than any other invented human ideology. (I bet i've said that on this board's religious threads a hundred times by now, lulz)


----------



## 13point9 (Apr 4, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> looong quote



I put a link up in the last page stating the beliefs of Modern Satanism, its different to Atheism but yes, it has nothing to do with the Christian "devil" people who worship Lucifer are like retarded Christians


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 4, 2010)

I've read that pages definition of "Modern Satanism", and I understand it. Why it choses to completely ignore the baggage attached to the term "Satan", makes me LOL. Is it because of what LeVey says? It seems again, like someone setting a bunch of rules in stone, and changing the definition of terms to serve its purpose. I think values vary by circumstance, and the environment.


----------



## 13point9 (Apr 4, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> I've read that pages definition of "Modern Satanism", and I understand it. Why it choses to completely ignore the baggage attached to the term "Satan", makes me LOL. Is it because of what LeVey says? It seems again, like someone setting a bunch of rules in stone, and changing the definition of terms to serve its purpose. I think values vary by circumstance, and the environment.



I presume its an evolution of the guidelines set out by LaVey, but the difference being LaVeyian's idolise him almost to the point of woroship (a'la Hubbard in Scientology/ Dianetics), which is pretty much as bad as worshiping anything else imo lol


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## Hollowman (Apr 5, 2010)

leandroab said:


> :




This is such a Generic answer it makes me laugh, Sorry, I can't take him seriously. Every Metal band out there has used this once or twice.


----------



## 13point9 (Apr 5, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> This is such a Generic answer it makes me laugh, Sorry, I can't take him seriously. Every Metal band out there has used this once or twice.



Ghaal has since admitted that all of this crap was just an act, same as all the other bands imo lol hell at least Akercocke Admitted it... (I've posted this before but hey, its funny lol)


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 5, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> Satanism has always struck me as kind of, an odd belief. I don't know too much about it. I've read some of the Satanic Bible when i was around 16. Satan, or Lucifer was, for the most part, part of old Judeo-Christian (i know thats not a 'real' sect, but for this purpose it will work) mythology, no? I know he's popped his head up in many other ancient texts, but old-school christianity and modern fundamentalists put the most emphasis on Satan's significance. Cal me, uhh, whatever, but in my eyes I still see that as being of the Judeo-Christian group of beliefs. Sure, Christians were followers of Christ, But just not wanting to call yourself a Jew anymore and calling yourself Christian instead, doesn't mean you still aren't a Hebrew. I kind of see Satanism in the same light, I kind of label people who beleive on the mythical, or even possible historical Lucifer to still be of the Christian variety. Either most (I say most because most people I have met who call themselves Satanist, or whatever don't understand the history of their religion, and the associated baggage that comes with that label, though you seem much more knowledgeable in that area) don't understand the religion, or have just chosen to follow whatever interpretation of it they chose, be it, LeVey or whomever else.
> 
> I have met some Satanists who claim that to be a Satanist means to believe in nothing supernatural at all, (why not call yourself an atheist?), some who claim to recognize, and worship Lucifer himself, the brother of Christ. Some who say it is understanding Lucifer's teachings of humanity's 'true' relationship with the Earth (why not call yourself a Secular/Natural Humanist?). I dunno. Satanism doesn't make much sense to me. A lot of it, I'm convinced, is that because we are social creatures, many of us need to identify within a group of people, whom are like-minded, and share similar values. Its a Tribal thing. It's not only in religion; sports, Politics, and Entertainments basically operate the same way in American culture. Identifying with the local tribe, or team, or Style and Praising and upholding of that until it becomes institutionalized and accepted by others (and even worse, become offended when you are asked to objectively question said institution). I've been studying anthropology and religion for the last 2 or 3 years religiously (hehe). I still have to get to Satanism in more detail, and with orthodox Judaism, and some of the older pre-christian religions. I am not slamming your beliefs at all, but what is it that you identify with Satanism, and how do see the relevance its values hold?
> 
> I myself am an Atheist. I currently believe in nothing of Supernatural origin. no ghosts, goblins, demons, souls, spirits, fortunes, mystics or magic. Though, I am always open. I can believe almost anything within reason, if there is a good, rational, or logical reason to do so. Having evidence to back up such a claim is a definite plus! rofl. But I am always more interested in the origin of our beliefs, and why people believe them. IMO we spend far too long as a whole arguing over these things, and we need to concentrate on spending our time and effort on things that are actually tangible, and REAL. IMHO, irrelevant superstitions don't really have a place in the modern world anymore, at one point they may have served a purpose, but like the way of the VHS, they are obsolete, and in some cases even held selfishly, and have been responsible for more genocide, and baby killing than any other invented human ideology. (I bet i've said that on this board's religious threads a hundred times by now, lulz)



I think the main thing that confuses a lot of people is the term "Satanism" itself. At it's core it's more of a philosophy. I'll start off by saying that when I say Satanism I'm referring to Anton LaVey and the Church Of Satan. Since I'm of that camp, I don't really go in for those who worship Satan as a deity, nor do I know all they do and I can't really speak for them. Technically the CoS is the biggest, and the only actually established organization for those who are Satanists, they were the first to make themselves public and they're the reason Satanism is what it is in terms of an actual religion with ritual, and dogma.

People often say that Satanism is pretty much a parasite of Christianity, needing Christianity to exist to further itself, which isn't the case. Satan is a symbolic figure, not a deity to be worshipped. Firstly Satan is actually a word, before it became a name (Technically it was a label for the fallen angel, it wasn't his actual name)..it means the accuser or opposer and Satanists identify with that, not just because of what the biblical figure of Satan represents, but because we do oppose spiritual religions who would seek spiritual answers to worldly question and in our own doings we call them out on it in a way. Satanists are athiest in the sense that we don't believe in gods and demons and things of the sort, HOWEVER we do believe that there are forces in nature that we don't understand and can't comprehend, and this often is labeled as God because humans are better suited to thinking of it that way. We believe these forces to be just like any other force of nature, not conscious of humanity or anything of the sort, it just does what it does. Now many, myself included label that as Satan as well, not because it's a god that's paying attention to us, but it represents the unseen, mislabeled, feared, and is actually a rather Satanic concept. Ritual taps into this, as it's part of Satanism however I'll skip going into all that. Satan also represents the "demons" of humanity. All the things we as humans prefer to turn a blind eye to, all the things that are in our nature that are misunderstood and demonized as "bad things". Right Hand Path religions see these things as demons or demonic influence and we see this as just part of the animal that is man. Something not to fear, but to be understood and exercised within balance of course. And of course, LaVey was a showman and labeling a religion as Satanism gets attention both positive and negative. Many times Pete Gilmore (current head of the CoS) has said that religion is show business, but Satanism is the only religion that admits it. 

Now all of that was mainly to shine some light on the whole Satanic Philosophy. There's more to it but that's the basic meat of it. As to how that relates to me, well I agree with all of it. LaVey has said that Satanists are born, not made, which holds true. It's something you either live or you don't. Satanists don't become Satanists, they were always that way and pick up the Satanic Bible and relate to it because it's pretty much what they've been doing all their lives, and I'm the same way. It's a philosophy that's more about common sense than mysticism and things that don't make sense, yet are allowed because "God said so". It the things I've thought for most of my life, and finding Satanism just made things better, not to mention I've met some great people who are Satanists. Satanism is about individualism instead of herd mentality, which is one of the reasons there are no actual churches or Satanic meetings or things of that sort because Satanism reaches across so many different types of people that you couldn't really put them all in a room and expect them to form a fellowship. Some Satanists are more social, some are not, and apart from Satanism the things we do and think can be worlds apart.

It's also a religion that's anti-stupidity and I do identify with Satanism in the sense that it's a highly misunderstood religion, but the people of the religion aren't trying to dispel rumors and myths about it because of it's anti-stupidity creed. People who really want to know about the religion will find out. ALL the information needed is readily available, but many would rather just make assumptions, ask people who may or may not know what they're talking about, and believe myths. I'm sort of the same way. I don't mind being misunderstood and "feared" because it helps keeps morons and idiots and various undesirables and bay and those who really want to know take the time to find out more. It's a system that works. Honestly it's one of these most peaceful and harmless religions you can find, and I think that's in some way because of the stigma that's attached to it. It's one of the reasons Satanism and Metal go hand in hand, actually.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 5, 2010)

Wow! 

Beautifully stated. Bravo!


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## Adam Of Angels (Apr 5, 2010)

What? .....what HE said? Fucking Drak? He's a hooker, what would HE know?


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 5, 2010)

Interesting. So Satanism is basically the same as Atheism/Skepticism except it has a closed world view? It's more of a philosophy, yet a religion as well? Still seems sketchy to me. Atheism/Skepticism also includes that we do not understand everything, and that absolutely (lulz) nothing is absolute. at the sub atomic level there is a certain randomness that we currently cannot explain and it seemingly doesn't have an effect at the macro level (but it does). Maybe in the future we will find out it's not so random after all.... just one hundred years, ago we hardly knew a thing about this rock we live on, and now, we've answered many questions, which intrinsically lead to even more and more questions. Because of High Technology and science we've been able to expand on our creativity, and as long as that keeps happening we will exponentially increase our understandings of the universe. especially now that we have the LHC. Old/New school religious thinking and dogma couldn't get us there, it was science and people building upon each others (and old) research and having the desire to acquire the knowledge. Simply because we asked the questions eventually we arrived at the answers, key word 'arrived'. We've contemplated the fabric of space/time, and have slowed light to the speed of floating dust particles in a lab. Why the dogma? Dogma is static and cannot be changed, and generally based on ones opinion/interpretations of obsolete ancient texts, knowledge and traditions and completely speculative rationalizations, not The Scientific Method. I don't see Satanism as something that is relevant, something that is going to benefit us any better than what we've already had (by default) Atheism, and good ol' critical thinking.

I think you misunderstood the meat of my post. But What I meant is Satanism is a divergence from Christianity, not parasitic, rofl (all religions are pretty much diverged from each other). Atheism is also, Anti-Stupidity, we fucking got that Trademarked, rofl.

One's got to ask, what stake does LaVey have in his institution? He surely must have been profiting, reaping the benefits of starting something new (or resurrecting something old) etc. I really don't get it. It seems he's just benefitting from others wanting to belong to something, as I stated above. I've watched a couple of videos of him on youtube (i know, bah), and he seems to be suffering from an inflated ego, and obviously loves being revered/condemed for founding CoS, and is overly dramatic (for entertainment purposes, surely). I'm not bashing or accusing him of anything, but those are relevant questions and things to look at. It's possible he's even tricked his own mind and sabotaged his own thinking (2 years psychology and cognitive behavior classes, lol). Maybe I'm looking at Satanism too critically (but I do that with everything...). because religions always seem to tell you (in the small print) critical thinking isn't worth it because we are just finite humans who cannot understand everything. Religions always project and protect a closed world view. Our understanding of the world isn't finished by any means, it has only just started (as we only recently have started to use science really effectively and efficiently). People tend to forget (or not understand) that everything in reality is emergent; life, nature, science, knowledge, religion, ideology, society, values, language. Everything, so I don't believe it to be possible to be born a Satanist, maybe "Born into", or indoctrinated, but that's it. Sure science doesn't solve everything, and philosophy sort-of fills that void. But, philosophy is also emergent. we didn't bust out of caves with tools saying "Fuck, What is the meaning of life?". It was an evolutionary process to even be able to contemplate the question. Satanism doesn't seem to address many things and is full of intangible speculations of human nature (which doesn't exist, Human Behavior is emergent too), just as other religions. 

Is there something else I'm missing here? Again, not attacking or bashing so please don't take this personally, I just want to understand (and for those reading) what the benefit of saying "I'm a Satanist" is over saying "I'm an Agnostic/Athiest" or even "WUT??? Dogmatic beliefs??? LULZ". But, maybe, just maybe, like Christianity, Satanism is not meant to be understood (a trademark of all religions).

ok, this part is off topic and doesn't relate to you, but is relevant over-archingly...

If you saw someone walking down the street and they were all like "Dude, HOLY SHIT!!!, I just read the earth is fucking FLAT. It makes sense, we can SEE its flat, Feel its flat. Hell, we can fly a plane strait and it doesn't fly off the earth, duh!. Look how many people support it. Plus, We've always know it was flat, but then along came science...". It's obvious this person is confused and has based their conclusion off of insufficient evidence, and haven't taken a critical eye to the information presented to them. Would you say "sure, buddy, sure it is..." and walk away? or would you try to explain to this person he needs to at least take another look at what some other people say. I wouldn't walk away, surely. If this person walks away without at least taking another look at what science has to say, he is going to base his entire world view around such compelling, and obviously evident evidence witnessed by our seemingly infallible senses. He is going to Vote. He is going to teach his children. He is going to engage and influence others, and if his Logic is flawed (just because one argument out of many in a claim is true it doesn't give credibility to the remaining claims) how can one be sure his understanding of reality is accurate? It's going to have a definite effect on people he interacts with especially if their logic and ability to rationalize is underdeveloped, undermining their true potential. eeeep. Fuck, I'd even ridicule and laugh at the man if that is what it took to get him to think (and I would encourage people around me to do the same). 

Too many moderates around here enabling the literalists. bah, lulz. Whew, my fingers wouldn't stop chattering! rofl. time yo smoke a bowla!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 6, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> Interesting. So Satanism is basically the same as Atheism/Skepticism except it has a closed world view? It's more of a philosophy, yet a religion as well? Still seems sketchy to me. Atheism/Skepticism also includes that we do not understand everything, and that absolutely (lulz) nothing is absolute. at the sub atomic level there is a certain randomness that we currently cannot explain and it seemingly doesn't have an effect at the macro level (but it does). Maybe in the future we will find out it's not so random after all.... just one hundred years, ago we hardly knew a thing about this rock we live on, and now, we've answered many questions, which intrinsically lead to even more and more questions. Because of High Technology and science we've been able to expand on our creativity, and as long as that keeps happening we will exponentially increase our understandings of the universe. especially now that we have the LHC. Old/New school religious thinking and dogma couldn't get us there, it was science and people building upon each others (and old) research and having the desire to acquire the knowledge. Simply because we asked the questions eventually we arrived at the answers, key word 'arrived'. We've contemplated the fabric of space/time, and have slowed light to the speed of floating dust particles in a lab. Why the dogma? Dogma is static and cannot be changed, and generally based on ones opinion/interpretations of obsolete ancient texts, knowledge and traditions and completely speculative rationalizations, not The Scientific Method. I don't see Satanism as something that is relevant, something that is going to benefit us any better than what we've already had (by default) Atheism, and good ol' critical thinking.
> 
> I think you misunderstood the meat of my post. But What I meant is Satanism is a divergence from Christianity, not parasitic, rofl (all religions are pretty much diverged from each other). Atheism is also, Anti-Stupidity, we fucking got that Trademarked, rofl.
> 
> ...



I understand what you're saying, and I think a lot of what you're asking can be answered by digging a little more into what Satanism is about. I couldn't really type all the details of the religion. I will tell you that Satanists believe humans need ritual and dogma..even athiests. Everyone has some form of escape, something to let of "spiritual steam" so to speak, and basic rules for living their lives. Satanism provides that in a rational way that's not dependent on punishments by gods we can't see. It's said that Satanists are born not made, because you don't "convert" to Satanism. Satanists already have these views, but they weren't aware there was a name for it and they see themselves within the Satanic Bible. I've often said Satanism doesn't require having to adapt to a lifestyle because if it does...then you really aren't a Satanist. Satanists are against indoctrination and children aren't allowed to be members of the CoS even if they are children of CoS members. Satanists believe in free will, and with kids that goes double. You don't force your children into the religion. The basic teachings of Satanism are common sense and are taught (don't kill people, obey the laws, stay away from drugs and such) but the "meat" of the religion is left out of the child's head until they are old enough to understand it and show interest.

I think you're thinking that Satanism is around to explain things to us like other religions and that's not the case. We share a common mindset when it comes to certain things, but Satanism doesn't dictate our own theories of life. How we got here, what does it mean, all of that may be different from Satanist to Satanist BUT Satanism helps us search for these answers. At our core we are practical atheists, we believe in science yet we are aware that we are animals that may or may not ever fully understand things. Satanism IS the pursuit of knowledge, using our skepticism and that Satanic "accusing and opposing" mindset to forge not only our opinions on life, but to better our lives as we feel that's the major focus of life. The religion doesn't hand you all the answers in a book, it's a tool to finding your own answers and it reminds you to enjoy life while you do it.

I asked the same questions you did and when I first looked into Satanism I thought LaVey was a rambling nut, however learning more about him, reading the books on topic and all that shed a big light on it. It really does go back to what I mean about searching for the answers yourself..if you really want to know, the answers are there waiting for you to find them. Being a Satanist stands for something and when I hear one is a Satanist it tells me a few things about them and I think that's worth carrying the label.


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## biggness (Apr 6, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> ...I will tell you that Satanists believe humans need ritual and dogma..even athiests...



Hunger proves the existence of Food...


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 6, 2010)

I see. You seem to have a unique interpretation of your religion, one that doesn't align well with what I have so far read. I've come across a few sites (mainly ones posted in this thread) that have a lot of the satanic 'doctrines' (or satanic statements, I suppose they are called), and they seem to have quite the Ayn Rand influence. Materialism, Objectivism (which isn't remotely objective or rational at all), and puts a huge importance on the 'self' (projection and manifestation). I understand taking care of yourself is important, but to the degree that much resembles Rand-esque doctrine is self-destructive just absurd in my eyes. You may not agree with those parts but they are definitely there, implied, and some strait from Objectivism, as it based upon an egocentric and selfish worldview. It doesn't (as far as I can tell) acknowledge the human condition. It doesn't address we are merely the sum of all the feedback we receive from our environment. Again, values too are completely dependent on environmental feedback. If LaVey were born in another state, or even another country his environmental feedback would have been much different. Different culture, different customs, different people, different spiritual beliefs, and he most likely never would have arrived at Satanism. Satanism cannot apply to everyone, so it is no solution for our 'spiritual needs' IMO. It has divisionary qualities as all other religions do. We need something Secular which we already have. If Satanists are drawn toward Satanism as a means of escape, or for Identity purposes well, that's a psychological issue which needs addressing. Most people don't understand that the this concept of everyone having their own 'Identity', or 'Style', or 'Persona' is a fallacy. Our culture industry capitalizes on it, and sells us our identities and beleifs (another discussion...). I was sold mine (which since I have become AWARE of, I have been dismantling and rebuilding/retraining my psyche logically for the last year or so). Not all people 'suffer' from escapism. When you develop a more logical understanding of perceptible reality, address some of your more problematic issues, you don't need religion as a crutch, which it is. All humans currently suffer from a delusion (one of many...) called "The Self". It is a projection of the ego, our desires, our needs, and our rejection and ignorance and naive, closed outlook on reality.

Humans have this unique ability to detach our thinking cognitively. To describe it simply, its the reason we can 'replay' scenarios/events and even alter them in our minds even long after an event has happened. It is the main cognitive function responsible for us being able to live in (semi-)functional societies. Our ideas of 'Spirituality', supernatural beings, and The Self are a problematic side-effect of that unique ability, Which in the last 10-15 years we have just become aware of. These kinds of things aren't talked about much in the public eye (mainly because its against the church's interest to educate, and the entertainment industry, tv, film, and many other things we've been condition to, and grown accustomed to having would most likely suffer severely as well). We resist change because of Emotional attachment which binds us to our concepts. We end up using circular reasoning, and making horrible rationalizations based on a lack of evidence to support our preconceived notions in order to retain and protect the ideology. So we slap little band-aids on giant bleeding ulcers because of the limited scope in which humanity has viewed reality until now.

Again, Satanism doesn't address or recognize too many subjects for something which someone should base their value system off of (which DO determine how one interacts with the world). I do see it as a possible Transitional Tool for some who require emotional solace of sort, but to be discarded as one's understanding expands. We NEED to base our values on a physical reference to the world if we are to progress as a species. All we've done is project our ideas into reality and pretend they are real (money, anyone?). Also, I've hardly done much research (maybe 2 hours worth), but it just seems....irrelevant. Holistically its basically worthless (not everyone can be a Satanist). Just imagine how perverted and re-re-re-re-reinterpreted the ideas will be in the future, as all ideologies have been to date. Our language is part of this problem, its very unspecific. Science is not subject to interpretation. It is specific. It is based on physical reference. 1+1=2. When two Physicists are discussing thermodynamics, they don't interpret, or slap their half-assed idea on the problem at hand (If they are worth a shit), they discuss in a language that is exact, Mathematics. So If they need to bring another person in who doesn't speak the same language, the task can still be done very specifically. Two priests from different congregations cannot even agree what verses of the bible mean. But two Scientists from two totally different fields will still agree that Pi is a constant, and doesn't change (under normal spatial conditions).

We don't realize our problems are not so much on a personal level, as they are on the WHOLE. Individuality is merely one's reference to how compare and see themselves fit into their society. Individuals don't have problems, Societies do. I don't think it is a relevant thing to occupy one's time with, or 'escape' to (Satanism). It may work for you currently, but you are intelligent and if you pursue actual tangible, near-imperical knowledge of how we really operate inside our mushy little brains, I think you will also [I project too,  ] find it irrelevant as well and move on. I hopped around quite a bit when I started my own "Awakening". From religion, to joining (and parting from) various social and political movements, and trying to find some kind of spirituality. I've learned, it OUR problems are what need to be addressed because they consistently manifest through the ego. When a person does something for themselves they help their self. When someone does something for their society they help all, which includes their self and will boost the quality of everyones life which would have an exponential effect as time moves forward. It's just a matter of jump starting that idea and helping people to understand it. It's a logical step to make, and divisionary superstitions, materialism, individualism, nationalism, patriotism, projective identification, ego, and monetary systems have and will continue to make that impossible to happen. It all basically comes back to one source....Education. I don't mean "go to school and become an accountant" type of education. One that is not based on some of our Delusions, but education based on physical, tangible reference (which most people have lost interest in because there isn't much money involved in that area anymore).


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 6, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> I see. You seem to have a unique interpretation of your religion, one that doesn't align well with what I have so far read. I've come across a few sites (mainly ones posted in this thread) that have a lot of the satanic 'doctrines' (or satanic statements, I suppose they are called), and they seem to have quite the Ayn Rand influence. Materialism, Objectivism (which isn't remotely objective or rational at all), and puts a huge importance on the 'self' (projection and manifestation). I understand taking care of yourself is important, but to the degree that much resembles Rand-esque doctrine is self-destructive just absurd in my eyes. You may not agree with those parts but they are definitely there, implied, and some strait from Objectivism, as it based upon an egocentric and selfish worldview. It doesn't (as far as I can tell) acknowledge the human condition. It doesn't address we are merely the sum of all the feedback we receive from our environment. Again, values too are completely dependent on environmental feedback. If LaVey were born in another state, or even another country his environmental feedback would have been much different. Different culture, different customs, different people, different spiritual beliefs, and he most likely never would have arrived at Satanism. Satanism cannot apply to everyone, so it is no solution for our 'spiritual needs' IMO. It has divisionary qualities as all other religions do. We need something Secular which we already have. If Satanists are drawn toward Satanism as a means of escape, or for Identity purposes well, that's a psychological issue which needs addressing. Most people don't understand that the this concept of everyone having their own 'Identity', or 'Style', or 'Persona' is a fallacy. Our culture industry capitalizes on it, and sells us our identities and beleifs (another discussion...). I was sold mine (which since I have become AWARE of, I have been dismantling and rebuilding/retraining my psyche logically for the last year or so). Not all people 'suffer' from escapism. When you develop a more logical understanding of perceptible reality, address some of your more problematic issues, you don't need religion as a crutch, which it is. All humans currently suffer from a delusion (one of many...) called "The Self". It is a projection of the ego, our desires, our needs, and our rejection and ignorance and naive, closed outlook on reality.
> 
> Humans have this unique ability to detach our thinking cognitively. To describe it simply, its the reason we can 'replay' scenarios/events and even alter them in our minds even long after an event has happened. It is the main cognitive function responsible for us being able to live in (semi-)functional societies. Our ideas of 'Spirituality', supernatural beings, and The Self are a problematic side-effect of that unique ability, Which in the last 10-15 years we have just become aware of. These kinds of things aren't talked about much in the public eye (mainly because its against the church's interest to educate, and the entertainment industry, tv, film, and many other things we've been condition to, and grown accustomed to having would most likely suffer severely as well). We resist change because of Emotional attachment which binds us to our concepts. We end up using circular reasoning, and making horrible rationalizations based on a lack of evidence to support our preconceived notions in order to retain and protect the ideology. So we slap little band-aids on giant bleeding ulcers because of the limited scope in which humanity has viewed reality until now.
> 
> ...



Satanists are drawn to Satanism because it's what they are. Another thing to take into consideration is that the primary focus of Satanism is enjoying your life. In doing this you have to mind the 1 Satanic Sin..stupidity. It's stupid to ignore "indulgence not compulsion". It's stupid to take things to the extreme and do things that will in some way negatively impact your life and keep you from enjoying things. Satanism is a selfish religion in that you acknowledge that what you do is for your own benefit, even things you do for other people, however this doesn't mean you have to be a cutthroat asshole. That would come back to bite you later on..and that would be stupid. It's all pretty circular really and the Laws Of The Earth and the Satanic Sins make perfect sense when one really thinks about them. Mind you this from the works of LaVey, Gilmore, and other high ranking members of the CoS and they'll all agree on that. As for escapism, we all have it in some way. Whether you play music, pray, read a book, punch a wall, jerk off, whatever..it's all a form of leveling out emotions that get out of hand. This is the point of Satanic Ritual..it's a way to escape in a way that helps further our enjoyment of life. These rituals aren't required because we all have our ways of leveling high running emotions, but they're there in case we decide to call upon it's uses.

Satanism is something that never really becomes "outdated" because it was never dated to begin with. It's a tool to help make the most of life, you take it, as well as your own views on life and what you've learned and you use all of it. It doesn't provide you with anything you didn't already have. Satanism surely didn't "save my life" because I'm living the exact same life, just with more knowledge than I had before. I think that's the way religion should be. Not distracting with things that don't make sense, and something that can be applied to life and used as a logical resource. 2 hours of looking into Satanism surely won't tell you the whole story..and once again it's one of those things that either works or doesn't work for you..and that's if you actually understand it. If you really want to know what it's about I'd suggest reading Anton LaVey's work, as well as Peter Gilmore..check out the CoS website and read the info there too. You have a lot of the ideas on it that people do when they haven't really tried to understand it outside of "a religion just like the other religions". It's not the same thing and I think that's the good thing about it. It could just be that it's not for you and I don't think it is, however you certainly can't form an opinion on it without full knowledge of it. You seem to see it as a tool for those who need "something" to help them understand life, or to get through a spiritual transition of some sort and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Might I ask, what exactly have you read on the topic of Satanism?


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 6, 2010)

I will agree, Satanism isn't for me. I flirted with it when I was a kid when I acquired the Satanic Bible from a close friend. He didn't hold my interest too long, but its core concepts stuck with me for a long time. I've read links posted by others here, I've read the entire modernsatanism.*** site, most of the CoS site, and general common sense. I have not read any of LaVey's other work other than TSB, or Peter Gilmore's. It isn't the things in common with the religions we are exposed to that bothers me, it's the thing in common in which all religions seem to share, disconnect. Not to mention the claims of how its different from other religions. I think learning to be aware of our emotions, and not letting them run us, as the CoS agrees, is vital. But understanding the root of those emotions is important. We don't have all these emotions and feelings randomly, they happen for a reason. If we get to the source of these emotions, and control/extinguish them before they get to the point they need release, we can be truly experience what happiness is. The happiness we experience now is just a temporary state, its the same with all emotions. Satanism still just a band-aid if ya think about it from a scientific point-of-view.

"Whether you play music, pray, read a book, punch a wall, jerk off, whatever..it's all a form of leveling out emotions that get out of hand."

Well I agree praying, reading, punching walls, and such are methods of relief from our emotions, Sex (jerkin' it) and music [and other needs] are actually physiological needs. We need music to develop our brain circuitry effectively, efficiently and creatively (among actual physical ways it effects our bodies), and sex is pretty obvious why we need that, lol.

But yeah, This discussion has got me interested in Satanism, and I will read more about it and those dudes you mentioned as well, and see how my relatively quick synopsis changes, if any.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 7, 2010)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> I will agree, Satanism isn't for me. I flirted with it when I was a kid when I acquired the Satanic Bible from a close friend. He didn't hold my interest too long, but its core concepts stuck with me for a long time. I've read links posted by others here, I've read the entire modernsatanism.*** site, most of the CoS site, and general common sense. I have not read any of LaVey's other work other than TSB, or Peter Gilmore's. It isn't the things in common with the religions we are exposed to that bothers me, it's the thing in common in which all religions seem to share, disconnect. Not to mention the claims of how its different from other religions. I think learning to be aware of our emotions, and not letting them run us, as the CoS agrees, is vital. But understanding the root of those emotions is important. We don't have all these emotions and feelings randomly, they happen for a reason. If we get to the source of these emotions, and control/extinguish them before they get to the point they need release, we can be truly experience what happiness is. The happiness we experience now is just a temporary state, its the same with all emotions. Satanism still just a band-aid if ya think about it from a scientific point-of-view.
> 
> "Whether you play music, pray, read a book, punch a wall, jerk off, whatever..it's all a form of leveling out emotions that get out of hand."
> 
> ...



Well you've got The Satanic Bible(which takes a re-read because it ties into the other books), The Satanic Scriptures (Peter Gilmore), all of Blanche Barton's works, The Devil's Notebook, Satan Speaks, The Satanic Rituals, and the various essays from other respected CoS members..quite a bit of reading, all of which help dig into what the religion is. It's hardly a band-aid as it fixes nothing really..or even attempts to. It's more like the first aid book the helps you tend to the wound more than it is the superficial meager patch up for the problem.

Mind you I'm not suggesting these books with any claim they'll do you any good. Honestly I don't think they will in that sense but they'll explain the religion more instead of getting you to agree as that's not really the focus.


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## CrushingAnvil (Apr 7, 2010)

That Akercocke interview was insane.

Those balshy Irish Christians were rude and typically ignorant and just spent the whole time cutting the guys from Akercocke off and saying the same crap they tell you on the street.

It is Ireland after all, My Irish Catholic grandmother once ranted about my older cousin's old grunge band for two hours and I swear she used the sentence "It's just garbage!" at least forty times


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 7, 2010)

CrushingAnvil said:


> That Akercocke interview was insane.
> 
> Those balshy Irish Christians were rude and typically ignorant and just spent the whole time cutting the guys from Akercocke off and saying the same crap they tell you on the street.
> 
> It is Ireland after all, My Irish Catholic grandmother once ranted about my older cousin's old grunge band for two hours and I swear she used the sentence "It's just garbage!" at least forty times



I've often noticed that those interviews of this sort always seem to be one sided for one reason or another. No on ends up looking good.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jul 10, 2010)

One thing that seems to have gone unmentioned is...

All of these figures named here have reaped personal benefits, both monetary and the ultimate, influence due to the spreading of their philosophies.

This is the ultimate goal, be it in the name of the golden calf (Baal) or the golden M (McDonald's).

To me this is the curse, the astral attack if you will, striking it's fangs into the subconscious and enforcing control. Forever will the illuminators receive praise.

The irony is, most applicants to alternative faiths seek the anti establishment, yet literally walk into the vipers nest. Pamphlets, published works and well versed speakers await them at the door, offering valuable insight for a initiation fee and regular tribute. Once this is gained, the enthralled novice now directly seeks guidance from those whose sole purpose is to be his manipulators.

My question to those that would seek the acceptance of orthodoxy is why give up your personal power as an individual to become a willing supplicant in an organisation?

If you look at the Masonic tradition, the compartmentalisation is the key to elevating the power of those stratospheric in the heirarchy. Secrecy born of elitism creates a willing underclass of footsoldier ready to serve the misunderstood will of their masters. Why would any sane person become involved with such a thing, when as an independent individual you free, of tithes and bonds.

In the age of the rise of the secret societys, all it takes for the pyramid to crumble is the end to an epoch of elitism.

May the venom of elitism poison the host, as the snake eats its' own tail.


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## Moro (Jul 11, 2010)

I can see myself relating to many of the Atheistic Satanism ideas. I just can't bring myself around the notion of doing any sort of worship, or believing in any kind of magic or "misterious" stuff. 

I believe in science, and in an eye for an eye. No Christian "i'm a sinner, i deserve it" or "this is god testing me" victim-mindset BS for me. If you test me, i'm testing you back mofo.


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## TreWatson (Jul 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I bought an inverted cross necklace years ago, which I grew quite fond of and wore it all the time. It was merely a symbol of my stance against the heard mentality of Christianity, and a symbol of what I saw as the absurdity of the cross in the first place.


 
just gonna state that an inverted cross actually represents st. Peter, the first pope. he wanted to be crucified upside down because he felt like he was not worthy to be crucified in the same manner as christ.

so in a way the inverted crosses are more of a symbol of extreme servitude to God and Jesus.

don't believe me? look at the seat the pope sits in one day. the pattern carved in the back is -- you guessed it -- an inverted cross.

so either catholicism is secretly satanist or it's the first thing i said.

but then again, the symbol means what you want it to mean right?

and you know I love ya.

I'm glad you found clarity in your way of living/being.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 12, 2010)

TreKita said:


> just gonna state that an inverted cross actually represents st. Peter, the first pope. he wanted to be crucified upside down because he felt like he was not worthy to be crucified in the same manner as christ.
> 
> so in a way the inverted crosses are more of a symbol of extreme servitude to God and Jesus.
> 
> ...



The swastika was a symbol if peace...Christianity used to help people...MTV used to play videos...things get taken from their original meaning to become known by the general public as something else. And really...Catholics being severely Satanist..there's a joke in there somewhere.


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## TreWatson (Jul 12, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The swastika was a symbol if peace...Christianity used to help people...MTV used to play videos...things get taken from their original meaning to become known by the general public as something else. And really...Catholics being severely Satanist..there's a joke in there somewhere.


seeing as how i view catholics as the most evil hypocritical christians, and that they might as well oppose the bible with their practices? yeah. lol

and the swastika was never for peace, unless yoiu view it like the inverted cross thing, because it was a chinese symbol for peace, but hitler reversed it, changing its meaning.

<3 drak.

we should go to the harbor and throw rocks at the strippers on baltimore street.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 12, 2010)

TreKita said:


> seeing as how i view catholics as the most evil hypocritical christians, and that they might as well oppose the bible with their practices? yeah. lol
> 
> and the swastika was never for peace, unless yoiu view it like the inverted cross thing, because it was a chinese symbol for peace, but hitler reversed it, changing its meaning.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a date to me.


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## leandroab (Jul 12, 2010)

Satan is BAD!


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