# Can standard tuning still sound brutal?



## auxioluck (May 14, 2008)

Hey guys,
Lately I have been picking up my 6 strings a lot more than my sevens, but it makes me sad sometime to not have that low B there when I need it. Are there any bands you would recommend that play in standard E that still sound brutal as hell? If I remember, Emperor uses 6's in standard, but I can't remember correctly. Please help, I would like to think that my 6's still have a use! 

...Oh yeah, and thanks for the help!


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## Mr. S (May 14, 2008)

Emperor do yes, as do opeth for the majority of their songs


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## jacksonplayer (May 14, 2008)

Metallica managed some serious brutality back in the day with standard tuning. Though today's brutality might be more brutal than yesterday's brutality. 

Seriously, though, I think that brutality comes more from the picking attack than from the tuning. In fact, I think that downtuning can get in the way, by potentially creating more 'sludge' in the sound. Talented thrash guitarists in standard tuning can take your head off.


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## NiCkMiLnE (May 14, 2008)

auxioluck said:


> Hey guys,
> Lately I have been picking up my 6 strings a lot more than my sevens, but it makes me sad sometime to not have that low B there when I need it. Are there any bands you would recommend that play in standard E that still sound brutal as hell? If I remember, *Emperor uses 6's in standard*, but I can't remember correctly. Please help, I would like to think that my 6's still have a use!
> 
> ...Oh yeah, and thanks for the help!



isnt empty in Bstandard?
they pwn


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## hmmm_de_hum (May 14, 2008)

Play a C5 powerchord on the A string, add the extra 5th in the bass, the G on the low E, sounds pretty heavy.


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## D-EJ915 (May 14, 2008)

Becoming the Archetype (especially Terminate Damnation)


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## Uber Mega (May 14, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> Becoming the Archetype (especially Terminate Damnation)



BTA play in standard!? 

Metallica and Opeth make E standard sound mega brutal!


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## playstopause (May 14, 2008)

Uber Mega said:


> Metallica and Opeth make E standard sound mega brutal!



Of course! Imho, it's all about what you play and how you play. You don't necessarily need to tune to low E on an 8-strings to sound brutal.


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## ZeroSignal (May 14, 2008)

hmmm_de_hum said:


> Play a C5 powerchord on the A string, add the extra 5th in the bass, the G on the low E, sounds pretty heavy.



Yeah just invert your chords.


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## ZeroSignal (May 14, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Of course! Imho, it's all about what you play and how you play. You don't necessarily need to tune to low E on an 8-strings to sound brutal.



Has Meshuggah been informed?


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## Makelele (May 14, 2008)

Opeth.


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## Mr. S (May 14, 2008)

NiCkMiLnE said:


> isnt empty in Bstandard?
> they pwn



all of Prometheus is on a 7 but prior to that all of their songs are on 6ers in standard


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## canuck brian (May 14, 2008)

Yes.


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## auxioluck (May 14, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Forgot to mention I am a big Opeth fan as it is, and they are actually who have kind of inspired me to jump to sixes again. But, keep em coming! Thanks again!!


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## D-EJ915 (May 14, 2008)

Uber Mega said:


> BTA play in standard!?
> 
> Metallica and Opeth make E standard sound mega brutal!


yeah


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## Metal Ken (May 14, 2008)

I dunno, i wouldnt even really consider metallica or opeth 'brutal'. But brutality isn't keybased, so there's no reason you cant play brutal shit in standard tuning.


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## InTheRavensName (May 14, 2008)

Morbid Angel's first album was in Eb, and I think BATS was too, they didn't start with the 7s till Covenant unless I'm mistaken


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## Mattayus (May 14, 2008)

erm... Pantera anyone?? after CFH, anytime dime did something in 'E' he tuned a quarter step down, but its still more or less standard. and by fucking christ is it brutal!!!! some of the shit on Far Beyond Driven is still a benchmark for brutality, and a lot of it's in standard. It's all in the tone too.
Generally speaking if you still want a tight brutal tone in E you have to scoop a lot of mids and add bass. If yuo try to use the same settings on low tunings though it sounds poop and muddy, so you need to dial the mids back in a touch and roll the low end off a tad, which is quite annoying when you're swapping guitars a lot haha.


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## Uber Mega (May 14, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> yeah




Oh right C standard, thought you meant E standard


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## D-EJ915 (May 14, 2008)

Uber Mega said:


> Oh right C standard, thought you meant E standard


lol guess you're right, for some reason I remember them being in E...although I'm terrible for listening for that kind of stuff


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## TimSE (May 14, 2008)

Opeth
deicide still use standard or Eflat i think


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## playstopause (May 14, 2008)

ZeroSignal said:


> Has Meshuggah been informed?





The exception that confirms the rule! Imho, low tuning is really a part of their sound. But you know, i was manily thinking of those kids that thinks "omg!!!, I got to tune very low so i can be brootal".


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## Ancestor (May 14, 2008)

Just tune down. That's what poor bastards like me do. My low string on my six is Bb.


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## budda (May 14, 2008)

no, dont tune down.

you want standard to sound brutal?

*dial in a brutal tone*.

opeth - master's apprentice. what a fine example of heaviness in standard it is!


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## Metal Ken (May 14, 2008)

TimSE said:


> Opeth
> deicide still use standard or Eflat i think



All the old florida death metal (Like Deicide -- Which is far more brutal than anything listed in this thread so far) tuned in either Eb or D. The most death metal album ever to come from Florida, Malevolent Creation's "Retribution" is in D Standard.


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## philkilla (May 14, 2008)

Don't forget Morbid Angel ole Schectwhore.

Gojira is only in D, and like Morbid they use a lot of 4th chords while the bass adds a lower 5th..so that usually helps.


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## stuh84 (May 14, 2008)

What about Testament?


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## NeglectedField (May 14, 2008)

Low tuning is not the key to 'brutality', it's in the riffs. And of course your amp!


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## TemjinStrife (May 14, 2008)

Black Sabbath. Tony Iommi is in standard (or half step down) for many of their tracks, and holy shit is that heavy.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (May 14, 2008)

Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal is in Eb... but is freakin heavy as hell
Heathen - Victims of Deception is in E, and that's equally brutal


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## Sebastian (May 15, 2008)

A lot of Pantera's songs are in standard... maybe not a lot.. but bad ass for sure

Mouth for war... CFH ... Fucking Hostile


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## Mastodon (May 15, 2008)

I think Megadeth Opeth and Dillinger Escape Plan all sound brutal and they play in standard.

Edit: Though I'm viewing brutal in 2 different ways. I wouldn't consider these bands to be the crushing kind of brutal.


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## Nick (May 15, 2008)

as many have said opeth get a pretty brutal sound in E

check out deliverance off of....Deliverance.

the main verse riff i find to be br()()tal lol


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## intereo_luuk (May 15, 2008)

..and the last riff is nice (= brutal) too! Angel of Death is almost in standard E tuning, it's in Eb, right? That song is pretty brutal..


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## OrsusMetal (May 15, 2008)

I'm pretty damn sure Mors Principium Est uses standard tuning, and they're amazing.


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## Nick (May 15, 2008)

B standard lol

not E

One of them used to play a 7 string but i cant remember whether or not it was the guy that quit, i think it was


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## TomAwesome (May 15, 2008)

You don't have to detune for teh br00talz..?

This whole forum is a lie!!!!! 




Mattayus said:


> erm... Pantera anyone?? after CFH, anytime dime did something in 'E' he tuned a quarter step down, but its still more or less standard. and by fucking christ is it brutal!!!! some of the shit on Far Beyond Driven is still a benchmark for brutality, and a lot of it's in standard. It's all in the tone too.
> Generally speaking if you still want a tight brutal tone in E you have to scoop a lot of mids and add bass. If yuo try to use the same settings on low tunings though it sounds poop and muddy, so you need to dial the mids back in a touch and roll the low end off a tad, which is quite annoying when you're swapping guitars a lot haha.



Eh? That doesn't make much sense. Shouldn't a tone made for low tunings be less susceptible to mud? Even on a 7 or detuned 6, wouldn't it then sound like crap on everything but the low string? I play a lot in Eb and E (and yes, for once I'm talking about standard and a half step away rather than an octave down ), and my main distortion patch sounds just as good in E as it does in Ab or sub-octave Eb.


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## BlackMetalSins (May 15, 2008)

Deicide's Scars of The Crucifix is pretty brutal for Standard. I think the whole Pantera album Cowboys from Hell is in Standard, except Primal Concrete Sledge which is in Drop D.


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## neon_black88 (May 15, 2008)

Nevermore - The whole Dreaming Neon Black album is in E flat, THAT album is actually HEAVY AS SHIT.

I find myself really wishing I could go lower on a 6 now, not because lower=brutal-er, just because that area in the B range just sounds "right" for where my rhythm playing should be, it sucks not being able to use that range.



BlackMetalSins said:


> Deicide's Scars of The Crucifix is pretty brutal for Standard. I think the whole Pantera album Cowboys from Hell is in Standard, except Primal Concrete Sledge which is in Drop D.



But its really a quarter of a step down


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## noodles (May 15, 2008)

"Brutal" and "heavy" are descriptions we gave to music that sounds and feels a certain way. It has everything to do with songwriting and delivery, and nothing to do with tuning.

Lower tunings can help, but they are simply another tool in your arsenal. It is what you do with that low tuning that matters. What we've really come up against is the increasing difficulty of sounding heavier, more brutal, or more evil than that which has come before. Sabbath comes along, and makes everything sinister. Judas Priest comes along, and they make everything heavy. Maiden comes along, and ups the ante by playing everything faster. Thrash is next, and they add ferocity. Then death metal takes that right to the edge, adding more dissonance and weighty riffs.

As far as I'm concerned, that is as far as we've gotten. No one has pushed it past that point yet, no matter how low they've gone. So, you get stuff like Opeth, which makes the heavy stuff sound heavier, by nature of contrasting it with lighter stuff. That was something that several million kids missed out on the first time around when they were bitching about the slow part in the middle of Master of Puppets. You also get bands like Necrophagist, that just throw very melodic parts right over the top of it, or Arsis, who push the technical boundaries right to the edge, to give everything a frantic quality. But more brutal? Nah, things haven't gotten more brutal in a while, since simply being brutal 110% of the time takes the edge off of things.


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## Edroz (May 15, 2008)

noodles said:


> "Brutal" and "heavy" are descriptions we gave to music that sounds and feels a certain way. It has everything to do with songwriting and delivery, and nothing to do with tuning.







that PERFECTLY sums up how i feel about "brutal" and "heavy"


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## InTheRavensName (May 15, 2008)

I'd like to raise blackened death as the next stage of brutality. Bands like Behemoth, Zyklon and co took the speed of Deicide/Cannibal Corpse and threw in the coldness and clinical evil of bands like darkthrone and immortal

although FWIW, niether of those play in E (B and D respectively I think)


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## Metal Ken (May 15, 2008)

neon_black88 said:


> But its really a quarter of a step down



Or a half step.


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## Pauly (May 15, 2008)

Bah, Emperor got mentioned already, but hearing songs like an An Elergy Of Icaros and Curse You All Men live - about 100 times heavier than on the record btw (live bass+drums ftw) - proved that tuning meant little. Obviously lower notes tend to sound... I'm not sure what the right word is, but hearing a low B just sounds 'right' for metal, it automatically makes things sound a little darker and sort of fits in that part of the sonic spectrum you find in aggressive music, but as Noodles said at the end of the day tuning doesn't matter too much.


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## InTheRavensName (May 15, 2008)

You have a point though, "The loss and curse of reverence" has a fucking brutal intro-in E


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## Metal Ken (May 15, 2008)

Since we've decided to list a bunch of non-brutal bands, i cant believe no one's mentioned Anthrax. 

Persistence of Time sounds SO Fuckign heavy in standard tuning. I swore the disc was downtuned when i first listened to it. whole thing's in E.


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## TomAwesome (May 15, 2008)

noodles said:


> simply being brutal 110% of the time takes the edge off of things.



That's very true, especially in the cases of the more extreme metal genres. Most extremesupermegabrutalzombiedeath type metal just bores me to tears. I can appreciate the heaviness, but after about half a minute, it all sounds the same, and it gets old. There's just not much more to offer after that point. We've pushed "heavy" as far as I think it's going to go for a while. The key now, kind of as Dave was saying, is doing things that really bring out that heaviness rather than just shoving it in your face the whole time. I think some of the first songs I heard doing that by way of contrast were _Touched_ by VAST and _Can't Bee_ by Moonspell. They're not that heavy of songs, but having never really heard anything like that done before, they blew my mind at the time.


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## Mattayus (May 15, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> Eh? That doesn't make much sense. Shouldn't a tone made for low tunings be less susceptible to mud? Even on a 7 or detuned 6, wouldn't it then sound like crap on everything but the low string? I play a lot in Eb and E (and yes, for once I'm talking about standard and a half step away rather than an octave down ), and my main distortion patch sounds just as good in E as it does in Ab or sub-octave Eb.



Yeah of course i was being subjective, it especially matters when you're recording but generally speaking you can use the same settings for everything. All i meant was if you super scoop to get that "gogogock chunchuchug djent djent" type tone for E standard it can get a bit muffled if you have the same type of thing going on super low. It just sometimes helps to have your sound not quite so dark when you're going low, because the deep pitch will be dark anyway. Just a thought.


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## TomAwesome (May 15, 2008)

Ohh, I think I read part of your other post backwards. I love my mids anyway, so I rarely have to worry about overscooping.


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## Mattayus (May 15, 2008)

I like a light scoop, so it's aggressive but not dark and i don't lose tone essencially


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## BlackMetalSins (May 15, 2008)

> But its really a quarter of a step down



Yeah, all of Dime's songs are a Quarter step down. It was something unique he did that I don't think many other people do.


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## Carrion (May 15, 2008)

Martyr

/thread


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## Prada3353 (May 15, 2008)

well, he tuned a quarter step down at first, then, later on in pantera, he tuned down to a whole step and down a quarter, and then in damage plan he tuned down to a whole step and a half

or atleast thats what Guitar World magazine said


but i think you can sound brutal with standard if you have the right set up (guitar, pups, amp, ect) 

i personally tune my ESP Standard Series Viper to Drop C# i like that alot


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## BlackMetalSins (May 15, 2008)

Prada3353 said:


> well, he tuned a quarter step down at first, then, later on in pantera, he tuned down to a whole step and down a quarter, and then in damage plan he tuned down to a whole step and a half
> 
> or atleast thats what Guitar World magazine said
> 
> ...



Yes, but even when he was tuned to D Standard, and C#, he was still a Quarter step down, according to his Guitar Tech and a few websites.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 15, 2008)

if i had a sixer, i'd go with that sikth tuning, the Aflat one


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## Mattayus (May 15, 2008)

BlackMetalSins said:


> Yes, but even when he was tuned to D Standard, and C#, he was still a Quarter step down, according to his Guitar Tech and a few websites.



Yeah, and according to my ears.

CFH is in perfect standard (and a couple of songs in drop D), it was Vulgar Display onwards he dropped his guitars a quarter step, no matter what tuning he was using.

^^^ and btw Damageplan is in drop B/Bb on most of the songs


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## neon_black88 (May 15, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> Or a half step.



Huh? Dime bag always tuned a quarter of a step down from the tuning he was in, so if he's playing in E, he's actually play between E and D sharp. If in D, between D and C sharp.

If your were questioning me that is 



Mattayus said:


> Yeah, and according to my ears.
> 
> CFH is in perfect standard (and a couple of songs in drop D), it was Vulgar Display onwards he dropped his guitars a quarter step, no matter what tuning he was using.
> 
> ^^^ and btw Damageplan is in drop B/Bb on most of the songs



I'm pretty damn sure CFH is a quarter of a step down, I remember playing to it in E and sounding off, I can't check now though and my memory might be deceiving me.


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## Metal Ken (May 15, 2008)

neon_black88 said:


> Huh? Dime bag always tuned a quarter of a step down from the tuning he was in, so if he's playing in E, he's actually play between E and D sharp. If in D, between D and C sharp.
> 
> If your were questioning me that is



When you said what i quoted, you were quoting someone talking about Deicide's Stench of Redemption album. Which is a half step down. ;p

Edit: I see he was talking about pantera in the second half of his post. This is what i saw:


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## neon_black88 (May 15, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> When you said what i quoted, you were quoting someone talking about Deicide's Stench of Redemption album. Which is a half step down. ;p



I'm confused, but there was something about CFH in my quote. But it doesn't matter now!


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## Metal Ken (May 15, 2008)

neon_black88 said:


> I'm confused, but there was something about CFH in my quote. But it doesn't matter now!



There was. But im just showing you in the picture, the "Metal Ken listens to deicide and ignores pantera" view.. 

I didnt even see the CFH part, until i went back and looked just now.


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## Mattayus (May 15, 2008)

maybe CFH is a quarter step down, but i thought he only started that Vulgar onwards... anyway, i tell ya what's similarly awkward to play along with - Metallica's "One". You ever noticed it's like a fraction of a step UP?!


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## S-O (May 15, 2008)

Cynic was damn brütal.


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## -Nolly- (May 15, 2008)

noodles said:


> being brutal 110% of the time takes the edge off of things.



Couldn't agree with you more.


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## neon_black88 (May 15, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> There was. But im just showing you in the picture, the "Metal Ken listens to deicide and ignores pantera" view..
> 
> I didnt even see the CFH part, until i went back and looked just now.



Haha its all good, just never question me ever, ever again. Or i'll ban you from the forums.



> maybe CFH is a quarter step down, but i thought he only started that Vulgar onwards... anyway, i tell ya what's similarly awkward to play along with - Metallica's "One". You ever noticed it's like a fraction of a step UP?!



Yes! I have noticed that, It happens on Fade to Black too I think. I used to play to it all the time when I was starting out guitar and never noticed anything , went back to it a while ago, ripped into the first solo and I was like WHAT THE F*CK is wrong here.

Might have been I different song but I think its Fade to Black, I remmember hearing something about the whole album being a little bit sharp?


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## gaunten (May 15, 2008)

I won't be arsed to read through the whole thread to see if anyone already wrote this obvious one, but Pantera for the win. (at least most of their songs are in E standard, some in D)


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## neon_black88 (May 15, 2008)

gaunten said:


> I won't be arsed to read through the whole thread to see if anyone already wrote this obvious one, but Pantera for the win. (at least most of their songs are in E standard, some in D)



It's actually a quarter of a step down 

(que Metal Ken)


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## Mattayus (May 15, 2008)

haha yeah, we've had this discussion, and just because i'm a dime nut i just have to say it's a damn site more than just e standard and D.

IIRC he's done E standard, drop D, D standard, Db standard, drop B, and i think some more


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## Pauly (May 15, 2008)

InTheRavensName said:


> You have a point though, "The loss and curse of reverence" has a fucking brutal intro-in E



Conversely I find the whole of the In the Nightside Eclipse album to be really relaxing, it's chills me out! :\


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## ire_works (May 15, 2008)

Theres definately one grind standby for brutality in any tuning:


SPASTIC

DIMINISHED

CHORDS

FTW


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## philkilla (May 15, 2008)

Mattayus said:


> maybe CFH is a quarter step down, but i thought he only started that Vulgar onwards... anyway, i tell ya what's similarly awkward to play along with - Metallica's "One". You ever noticed it's like a fraction of a step UP?!



Dime has always tuned everything a 1/4 step down PLUS whatever else he was tuning to.

Example: Walk: 1 and 1/4 down. Drag the Waters 1 and 3/4 down lol. 

I never thought of Justice being tuned up a 1/4, but I always knew that Ride the Lightning was tuned up...not so sure about Kill em All or Master of Puppets though.


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## newamerikangospel (May 15, 2008)

Dimmu Borgir uses the Root+5th above and below (the G on the low E for a C5). They to my knowledge played in E standard, up until the new album, and Purticanical sounds heavy as anything I have heard.


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## Pauly (May 15, 2008)

newamerikangospel said:


> Dimmu Borgir uses the Root+5th above and below (the G on the low E for a C5). They to my knowledge played in E standard, up until the new album, and Purticanical sounds heavy as anything I have heard.



Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranny ftw, specially the third verse riff.


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## Mattayus (May 16, 2008)

philkilla said:


> I never thought of Justice being tuned up a 1/4



It's not, that's the thing, it's only "One" that's sharp


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## zimbloth (May 16, 2008)

newamerikangospel said:


> Dimmu Borgir uses the Root+5th above and below (the G on the low E for a C5). They to my knowledge played in E standard, up until the new album, and Purticanical sounds heavy as anything I have heard.



Yes but they overdubbed 7-string on many of those albums (such as Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia) and their bass player uses a 5-string with a low B which makes those extended powerchords sound that much deeper. It would not be the same without the 7-string overdubs and the 5-string bass. 

Cradle of Filth was the same way. Their guitars tuned to DGCFAD, but the bass was ADGCF, so when they kicked in those powerchords with a 4th underneath it sounded super heavy thanks to the bass. I believe Gojira does something similar.



auxioluck said:


> Hey guys,
> Lately I have been picking up my 6 strings a lot more than my sevens, but it makes me sad sometime to not have that low B there when I need it. Are there any bands you would recommend that play in standard E that still sound brutal as hell? If I remember, Emperor uses 6's in standard, but I can't remember correctly. Please help, I would like to think that my 6's still have a use!



It can, but it depends on the guitar tone and the way it's written. I certainly think all things being equal that lower tunings sound more brutal because of their growly, sinister characteristics, but there are some bands that can make it work with E. It helps if the bassist uses a 5 string though. 

Emperor I never thought sounded that 'brutal' until they started using 7-strings personally. I think Dimmu Borgir is a better example. In general though, while it can work,I definitely think D standard or below is the way to go. It's not the lowness but rather the character of the notes that does it for me. I can't imagine Cannibal Corpse, Nile, Behemoth, etc sounding as brutal as they do if they tuned to E... but that doesn't mean it's not possible of course.

Personally I enjoy tuning my 6'ers (when I have them) to either D standard, C standard, or B standard. E just doesn't do it for me, and I have my Xiphos 7 tuned to standard if I need that.


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## InTheRavensName (May 16, 2008)

Pauly said:


> Conversely I find the whole of the In the Nightside Eclipse album to be really relaxing, it's chills me out! :\



most of it is the same for me, but songs like "the loss and curse..", "curse you all men" etc have some fucking brutal riffs in standard


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## zimbloth (May 16, 2008)

InTheRavensName said:


> most of it is the same for me, but songs like "the loss and curse..", "curse you all men" etc have some fucking brutal riffs in standard



Yup, those two are classics, good call. However, Emperor's 7-string offerings such as "In The Wordless Chamber", "Depraved", "Empty", and "Eruption" are up their too. 

Not to get off topic and get on an Emperor tangent, but I can't stress enough how under-appreciated "Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire & Demise" is. It takes some time to get into, but damn it's unique and amazing.


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## Pauly (May 16, 2008)

^ Yes, it's a masterpiece. I encourage every metal fan to get their discography, starting with that album. Also worth noting is the production is MUCH better than all the other Emperor albums and so all the instruments have a lot more impact.


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## Mr. S (May 16, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> Not to get off topic and get on an Emperor tangent, but I can't stress enough how under-appreciated "Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire & Demise" is. It takes some time to get into, but damn it's unique and amazing.



 probably my favourite album ever


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## SirToastalot (May 17, 2008)

Celtic Frost used to get asked a lot if they downtuned in the 80's. All their stuff up was in standard tuning back then, Tom's heavy tone was attributed to his unusual guitar and amp settings. His guitar's tone knob was almost at zero and he used a tube screamer going into a JCM 800 with tons of gain dialled in. Probably not all that radical nowadays.
Their newer material is in B-standard on Monotheist, it's like a building falling on you!

Pestilence also stayed in standard and they were mookin' brutal at the time:

Out of the Body


Land of Tears


They even tuned up to F# to match Jeroen's 6-string bass on Spheres!


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## zimbloth (May 17, 2008)

^ yeah the tone on Monotheist is absolutely brutal and crushing. Sounds like a Marshall with the mids cranked, really unique sound that totally works for them. B tuning definitely suits them.


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## Mattmc74 (May 17, 2008)

I'm not sure but I think early Sepultura was in standard tuning.


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## amonb (May 17, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> ^ yeah the tone on Monotheist is absolutely brutal and crushing. Sounds like a Marshall with the mids cranked, really unique sound that totally works for them. B tuning definitely suits them.



That is actually my fave "brootal" guitar sound probably since it came out... it just sounds _so_ nasty.

Back to the topic, I always thought Helmet had some brutal sounds and they just did drop-d from memory... at least on Meantime (I'm sure they have used other tunings since then). I think Sepultura played "Chaos AD" in D standard and switched to B for "Roots". 

What about Chuck Schuldiner? What tuning did he use for the later stuff like "Individual Thought Patterns"?


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## Mattmc74 (May 17, 2008)

"Chaos AD" was in D standard! I forgot.


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## Naren (May 17, 2008)

I've been playing guitar for 8 - almost 9 - years now and, while I've played in drop D, whole step down, drop C, 6-string B standard and 7-string, and 7-string whole step down, 90% of the time I've been playing guitar, I've been playing in standard (whether in 6-string standard of 7-string standard).

Brutality and heaviness does not come from tuning or key, but from how you play and what you play. Aggression, dissonance, attack, contrast, and elements relating to your guitar (pickups, EQ, etc.) can make anything heavy. Hell, I even tested out a "drop E" tuning a long time ago (tuning every string up except the E) and it sounded heavy.

When I first joined the band with TDW way back when, I played a six-string in standard. Even though he played in FCGCFAD, I wanted to continue to play in standard (so I did). One of the first things Bob said when he heard me playing was, "Wow. I'd forgotten how heavy standard can be."

I don't think I need to name any bands, because lots of people already have over the last 9 pages.

That's one reason why I love 7-string standard. I have all the strings and notes of 6-string E standard and 6-string B standard.



philkilla said:


> I never thought of Justice being tuned up a 1/4, but I always knew that Ride the Lightning was tuned up...not so sure about Kill em All or Master of Puppets though.



Kill 'Em All, Ride The Lightning, Master Of Puppets, and ...And Justice For All were all played in standard tuning (with the exception of "The Thing That Should Not Be" off MoP that was in drop D).

The reason why all the songs off Ride The Lightning are slightly sharp is because it was recorded on analog machines and something happened that made everything go slightly sharp (drums, guitars, bass, vocals - everything). It's not even 1/4th up. It's like above E but below F, but not even 1/4th up either.

I'd never heard of "One" being tuned up and, if it's the only song on that album that's not in standard, I can't explain that, but that's the explanation for Ride The Lightning.


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## -K4G- (May 17, 2008)

amonb said:


> What about Chuck Schuldiner? What tuning did he use for the later stuff like "Individual Thought Patterns"?



D standard.


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## SirToastalot (May 17, 2008)

zimbloth said:


> ^ yeah the tone on Monotheist is absolutely brutal and crushing. Sounds like a Marshall with the mids cranked, really unique sound that totally works for them. B tuning definitely suits them.


Yeah, a great tone. Some of the sludgy doomier parts on the album remind me a bit of early 90's Cathedral.
I read somewhere that Peter Tägtgren made them use an Engl Powerball as well when they recorded with him at Horus Studios in Hannover. The band decided that they didn't like his mix and guitar sound and therefore didn't use them, so who knows if you can hear the Engl in their final version...
It's a big shame that they've split up again, hopefully Tom can build on Monotheist's success with his new band.


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## musicman2879 (May 17, 2008)

Naren said:


> Brutality and heaviness does not come from tuning or key, but from how you play and what you play. Aggression, dissonance, attack, contrast, and elements relating to your guitar (pickups, EQ, etc.) can make anything heavy. Hell, I even tested out a "drop E" tuning a long time ago (tuning every string up except the E) and it sounded heavy.
> 
> Exactly, the lead singer in our band plays DADGAD tuning but all he does is a few easy riffs here and there... I play a six and seven in the band. I keep my tuning at a 1/2 to 3/4 step above standard E. I have alot more range this way. you know Metallica used to play a 1/2 step up from standard E..(some songs).... We play Mudvayne, Slipknot, Static-x and Korn style of Heavy. It is fairly deep and alot of mid's. i just roll the high's back some and emphasize the low end. Brutality is in the chords and riffs.Also this tuning allows me more playable chords without mudding out.  Metal to the masses!!!


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## TomAwesome (May 17, 2008)

Naren said:


> That's one reason why I love 7-string standard. I have all the strings and notes of 6-string E standard and 6-string B standard.



Not quite, as 6-string B standard would be B E A D *F#* B. But yeah, when I used to play in that tuning most of the time, I loved that I could play anything in standard tuning and then drop down to the B (or A depending on how it was tuned at the time) whenever I wanted to. I still have one of my 7s tuned standard.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 17, 2008)

Yes, standard can sound brutal. Tone is a big factor, your riffs, contrast, etc. Also Opeth sometimes arppegiates/strums dissonant chords with overdrive or distortion, which can be heavy and brutal in a totally different way. Heck I even think Stravinsky's 'The Rite Of Spring' has brutal sections (due to bizzare dissonance and strange rythms).


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## Naren (May 18, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> Not quite, as 6-string B standard would be B E A D *F#* B. But yeah, when I used to play in that tuning most of the time, I loved that I could play anything in standard tuning and then drop down to the B (or A depending on how it was tuned at the time) whenever I wanted to. I still have one of my 7s tuned standard.



 What do you mean? Seven-string standard has that F# too. It's on the 4th fret of the D string.

Seven-string standard has ALL the notes of six-string E standard and six-string B standard. Name a note it doesn't have.  From the low B of B standard to the high E of 24-fret E standard.


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## TomAwesome (May 18, 2008)

You said "all the strings and notes" of those two different tunings, so that pretty much says that the 7-string tuning has all the same strings that both 6 tunings have between them. 6-string B standard has an F# string. 7-string B standard doesn't have an F# string.


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## Naren (May 18, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> You said "all the strings and notes" of those two different tunings, so that pretty much says that the 7-string tuning has all the same strings that both 6 tunings have between them. 6-string B standard has an F# string. 7-string B standard doesn't have an F# string.



I went back and re-read my post because I didn't recall saying that and you're right. I meant that the 7 string has all of the notes included in both tunings.

Saying that it had all of the same strings of both tunings wasn't a good way to phrase it, because then it would have 8 strings: B E A D G F# B E (all the strings of both tunings). Wasn't thinking when I said "strings."


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## biggness (May 21, 2008)

Deadman Circus!! They are a local band that tunes to standard and drop D. They are brutal in a different kind of way. They give some calm to the storm so to speak. Check out their song "Little Lamb" That is probably the heaviest standard can get without crossing into death metal territory IMO. But, they have since broke up and reformed a different band that now plays 7's.


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## GuitarG2 (May 22, 2008)

Cynic used standard and their 1991 demo is brutal, plus parts of Focus were pretty damn brutal. Opeth as well use standard. Other than that, there aren't many brutal bands that don't tune down, but there is lots of 'heavy' bands (King Diamond for example) that use standard.


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## neoclassical (May 22, 2008)

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but Pestilence played in standard tuning on Testimony of the Ancients, and Spheres. 

Adam


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## TheHandOfStone (May 22, 2008)

hmmm_de_hum said:


> Play a C5 powerchord on the A string, add the extra 5th in the bass, the G on the low E, sounds pretty heavy.



Adding fourths to the bottoms of powerchords is a terriffic way of sounding brutal.


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