# Kahler making 9 & 10 string trems, and fanned-fret trems too!!!!!



## Durero (Jun 4, 2007)

I emailed Kahler last night to ask about 9-string and multi-scale trem systems, and this morning I got a reply from Josh Vittek:



Josh from Kahler said:


> Thank you very much for contacting us and thank you for using the Kahler bridge systems
> 
> Its very interesting to receive you e-mail as you are absolutely correct. We just finished our production run of the nine string bridges along with a 10 string version. In addition, we will release the fanned fret system in eight weeks!
> 
> ...


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## OzzyC (Jun 4, 2007)




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## distressed_romeo (Jun 4, 2007)

Holy fuck! Suprising, but very very cool!


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jun 4, 2007)

It will be interesting to see how doing big dives on a fanned fret trem work. I imagine the high strings will get floppy and the low strings will stay somewhat tight.


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## Durero (Jun 4, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> It will be interesting to see how doing big dives on a fanned fret trem work. I imagine the high strings will get floppy and the low strings will stay somewhat tight.


No absolutely not.
The difference is that you use smaller changes in string gage from one string to the next to maintain an even tension across the neck. The trem feel will not be any different from straight frets.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jun 4, 2007)

Interesting.


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## Durero (Jun 4, 2007)

yeah to try and further clarify the point I was making above - the fanned frets on my 7-string allow me to use roughly the same overall change of gage from 1st to 7th string as you'd normally use on a 6-string - for example .009 to .042.

obviously regular string packs are useless to me and I buy single strings to create a custom 7-string set with even tension.


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## XEN (Jun 4, 2007)

Leo, it's happening!!!! 10 strings FTW!!!


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## Durero (Jun 4, 2007)

Damn rights Eric!
I'm pretty freakin excited!

I email Josh back this morning asking him to let me know when I can order from them. If I get any more info I'll post an update.


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## OzzyC (Jun 4, 2007)

How much fanning will it allow?
And also, will all of them be available fanned, or just some models?
Do they have to set the appropriate fanning, or can that be done by a luthier/ordinary guy?


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## Desecrated (Jun 4, 2007)

Fucking sweet


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## Durero (Jun 4, 2007)

OzzyC said:


> How much fanning will it allow?
> And also, will all of them be available fanned, or just some models?
> Do they have to set the appropriate fanning, or can that be done by a luthier/ordinary guy?


How much fanning is exactly the main spec I want to know and asked about in my email to them this morning. I'll let you know if I hear anything back.

It'll depend on their design. My first guess as to how they're doing it would be to simply extend their roller saddles so they can reach farther out from the saddle mounting pin. But this would require them to make saddles in sets of various lengths and have a limited range of fanning.

A better solution imo would be to have individual mounting brackets for each saddle - this would allow any and all amounts of fanning.


I'm sure the fanned fret adaptation could be applied to any of their cam trem systems. Kahler is pretty clever about making their systems modular and interchangeable, and minimizing the number of custom parts needed for trems with different numbers of strings.


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## D-EJ915 (Jun 4, 2007)

That's pretty cool, props to Kahler from rising from the dead and making kick-ass stuff!


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## ohio_eric (Jun 4, 2007)

That is so cool. Kahler is really kicking a lot of ass and trying some pretty daring things. Which given how conservaive a lot of builders and manufactureres are is refreshing.


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## skinhead (Jun 4, 2007)

Very nice! The shit it's here i can't get one, but i have a guy that makes me some badass bridges too.


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## Cool711 (Jun 5, 2007)

I wonder if my 8 fanned bridge was / is the prototype for this.
My fan is 22.75 - 25.5 and the order has been in for a while now. When I contacted them before, Josh said that they could do it, but there weren't any plans as of then.
Great to hear things have changed! (And hopefully may mean me paying less for mine!!!)

They said that they had to custom the extension saddles and the plate.
As far as I know, the saddles aren't movable, but for a production line model, it may be a good idea to accomodate any fan.


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## B Lopez (Jun 5, 2007)

Sounds awesome. I want to know what the thing would look like and how it works though more than anything.


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## philkilla (Jun 5, 2007)

Does anyone have any actual experience using a kahler with low tunings? 

I read that it can't hold them very well....someone please refute this.


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## Pauly (Jun 5, 2007)

Awesome news, gone are the days on only having fixed bridges on your ERGs.


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## larry (Jun 5, 2007)

Durero said:


> I emailed Kahler last night to ask about 9-string and multi-scale trem systems, and this morning I got a reply from Josh Vittek:



wow!!!! holy WOW!!! 
i'm sooo sorry that i doubted your post man. i was very skeptical
that kahler would step forth and kick ass... but i just got off
the phone with josh vittek, and sho nuff-- Leo's right!!

to paraphrase it roughly, 9-10 string trems will be available by july 1rst
cuz the prototypes are done and they work. absolutely.  

fanned versions are in the 'R&D' stage and may be ready as early as
august!!!! geeeezzee FUCK!!!!!! i am severely happy that i won't have
spend an ass load of money just on custom trems!!!!

yes yes yes yes yes
 

rejoyce! brothers, we have friends on the manufacturing side
that aren't affraid to go off the deep end.


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## joshvittek (Jun 5, 2007)

Hey gang, let me see if I can answer some questions here for you.

Yes, 9 strings are already shipping in chrome. Black and gold should start shipping in two weeks. Should be posted on the website by the end of the month.

10 strings should ship in three. Should be on the website in July.

Yes, there is also a fanned fret system that will be available. I am hoping to have orders start shipping by August 1. Should be on the website that same day. I don't see any reason why we cannot do this for any of the models but the first system is designed for the 7 & 8.


All three of these bridges came about at the same time as the 7 & 8... about two and a half years ago when I first hooked up with Gary Kahler. I have been a 7 string player for a very long time and thought it would be a great market to develop although it is not a huge market, those who do play 7's and beyond are very dedicated and serious musicians and for the most part, no one gave us the time of day unless we had $5000 to spend! From there, it snowballed. As word started spreading about seven, inquiries started coming in for 8's and 9's. During all of the international trade shows in 2006 we talked to some custom luthiers and some serious players and they all echoed the idea of why not? Actually, I think more thought we were out of our minds!

All models are based off of the cam design that Kahler has always done. We didn't know it at the time, but it accommodates these extended voice instruments rather well. 

Lower tunings are not a problem with the Kahler because of the cam design. It is a simple set screw adjustment from the top and you are ready to go. Slayer does it all night long.

If you have any further questions, you can post them here or contact me directly at Kahler. Welcome to Kahler USA 2007

Thank you very much for the kind words on here, we greatly appreciate it and look forward to taking care of you guys. We are very excited to be back.


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## ohio_eric (Jun 5, 2007)

Welcome aboard Josh!

Thanks for helping giving us seven string (and more) players some more options. 

I'm totally looking forward to seeing these new trems.


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## philkilla (Jun 6, 2007)

joshvittek said:


> Lower tunings are not a problem with the Kahler because of the cam design. It is a simple set screw adjustment from the top and you are ready to go. Slayer does it all night long.



Good point, but slayer doesn't really go any farther than B. (I'm not trying to be an ass... )

I'm thinking of getting one on my next ran, or putting one on my Epi seven...but I want to know for sure just how well these babies hold themselves.


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## Desecrated (Jun 6, 2007)

I want to see these fanned-trems on a blackmachine.


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## Pauly (Jun 7, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> I want to see these fanned-trems on a blackmachine.



Ya, less routing than a Floyd Rose - go on Doug!!!!!!


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## 7 Dying Trees (Jun 7, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> I want to see these fanned-trems on a blackmachine.


Next time i see doug I may have to mention it...


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## asmegin_slayer (Jun 11, 2007)

philkilla said:


> Good point, but slayer doesn't really go any farther than B. (I'm not trying to be an ass... )



Kerry King actually has a custom 7string bcrich warlock that he plays in "here comes the pain" and i believe "Payback". Both those songs are in the "god hates us all" album


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## larry (Jun 11, 2007)

asmegin_slayer said:


> Kerry King actually has a custom 7string bcrich warlock that he plays in "here comes the pain" and i believe "Payback". Both those songs are in the "god hates us all" album



what tuning are those songs in?


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## asmegin_slayer (Jun 11, 2007)

larry said:


> what tuning are those songs in?



google it


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## Daggorath (Jun 12, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Next time i see doug I may have to mention it...



On that fanned 8... I'd definately be up for selling body parts for one.


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## W4D (Jun 12, 2007)

Halo will be making a 9 & 10 string guitar as well. Josh will be sending me a couple.


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## philkilla (Jun 13, 2007)

larry said:


> what tuning are those songs in?



B flat.

For Kerry's seven, he was using a floyd (believe it) because there were no 7 string kahlers out yet.

and Jeff just used a six string..because he is a stubborn cunt.


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## Durero (Jun 13, 2007)

A thought for those wondering about the low tuning issue with Kahlers - they have been making 4, 5, and 6-string bass trems for decades - same cam design as the guitar models. So the low B0 of a 5/6 string bass works fine with their design. 

Tuning stability is a non-issue regardless of what pitch you tune to, however if you want to use bass-string sized ball-ends on the guitar models that may be a problem.

On the 7 and 8 string Kahler's I have they've made ball-end capture claw for the lowest string wider to accommodate very heavy string gages - but still with guitar ball-ends.


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## larry (Jun 14, 2007)

philkilla said:


> B flat.
> 
> For Kerry's seven, he was using a floyd (believe it) because there were no 7 string kahlers out yet.
> 
> and Jeff just used a six string..because he is a stubborn cunt.



thanks! i know what you mean about jeff. my bassist used to play guitar,
and he'd get pretty lost when playing my 7620... 

on top of that, he'd started playing guitar roughly 20 years ago.



Durero said:


> A thought for those wondering about the low tuning issue with Kahlers - they have been making 4, 5, and 6-string bass trems for decades - same cam design as the guitar models. So the low B0 of a 5/6 string bass works fine with their design.
> 
> Tuning stability is a non-issue regardless of what pitch you tune to, however if you want to use bass-string sized ball-ends on the guitar models that may be a problem.
> 
> On the 7 and 8 string Kahler's I have they've made ball-end capture claw for the lowest string wider to accommodate very heavy string gages - but still with guitar ball-ends.




thanks leo. i'll be replying to your message soon. i'll have to warn you,
i've got more questions.


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## Desecrated (Jun 15, 2007)

W4D said:


> Halo will be making a 9 & 10 string guitar as well. Josh will be sending me a couple.



Any shapes you can sit down and play ?


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## W4D (Jun 18, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> Any shapes you can sit down and play ?



From now on all guitars are available in a 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10 string.

EVERY BODY STYLE.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jun 18, 2007)

W4D said:


> From now on all guitars are available in a 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10 string.
> 
> EVERY BODY STYLE.



Fanned frets?


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## Durero (Jul 1, 2007)

It's a beautiful thing...


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## Desecrated (Jul 1, 2007)

wow


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## larry (Jul 2, 2007)

oh yes!!! it's everything i've dreamed of.
the same sort of surprise and awwe i felt
when i was within 2 feet of an attractive,
naked 22 year old, fillipino girl -- who allowed 
me to explore every centimeter of her.

that is what i'm feeling.

ahh.


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## ohio_eric (Jul 2, 2007)

nine....string.....trem.....brain....on.....overload!!


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## Lozek (Jul 3, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> I want to see these fanned-trems on a blackmachine.



I've text Doug about it, so you never know!!!


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## W4D (Jul 3, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Fanned frets?



yes we will make guitars with fanned frets as well if requested


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## W4D (Jul 3, 2007)

Durero said:


> It's a beautiful thing...



You think that is sexy you should see it in black and on a HALO.


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## Grosmann (Jul 10, 2007)

Hello guys

you can see this Kahler on the Grosmann guitars to. Halo and Grosmann apears toghether on the Kahler July news leter.


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## W4D (Jul 10, 2007)

Grosmann said:


> Hello guys
> 
> you can see this Kahler on the Grosmann guitars to. Halo and Grosmann apears toghether on the Kahler July news leter.



Is there is a website for grosmann guitars


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## Grosmann (Jul 12, 2007)

yes an on line store : Grosmann Music Store - Magazinul tau de instrumente muzicale - www.grosmann.ro 
the official and prezentation website is in construction now but will be : www.grosmann.eu


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## msherman (Jul 12, 2007)

Josh over @ Kahler just sent me this pic of the fanned fret 8 string bridge that they custom made for Andre`s guitar.


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## XEN (Jul 12, 2007)

That's freakin' cool!!!!!


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## Durero (Jul 12, 2007)

Fantastic!


Looks like it'll work great.


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## noodles (Jul 12, 2007)

Holy fucking shit!!!


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## theunforgiven246 (Jul 12, 2007)

but how much more will the fanned fret trem cost?


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## Ishan (Jul 12, 2007)

OH MY!  INSANE!


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## technomancer (Jul 12, 2007)

theunforgiven246 said:


> but how much more will the fanned fret trem cost?








ONE BILLION DOLLARS


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## Cool711 (Jul 13, 2007)

Ah crap, Mike just beat me to the post.
Still, for posterity, I'll post it in the original thread.

(and to take back some of my thunder!)


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## angus (Jul 13, 2007)

How much do you want to bet that that chords (or even double stops) go WAY out of tune when you go up in pitch with it? I'll put money down.

Looks nice though, but I sure hope it's being used one note at a time!


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## Stitch (Jul 13, 2007)

angus said:


> How much do you want to bet that that chords (or even double stops) go WAY out of tune when you go up in pitch with it? I'll put money down.
> 
> Looks nice though, but I sure hope it's being used one note at a time!



How much do you want to bet that what you are asking for is something that would cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars and be MASSIVE to be able to bend accurately in pitch like you describe.

Jesus Christ, they are making something NEVER done before, just for us, the ER guitarist, and people are already complaining about the things it can't do.


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## Durero (Jul 13, 2007)

angus said:


> How much do you want to bet that that chords (or even double stops) go WAY out of tune when you go up in pitch with it? I'll put money down.
> 
> Looks nice though, but I sure hope it's being used one note at a time!


 
Wow Angus, that's like offering to bet money that the sun will rise again tomorrow - don't think you'll have too many takers on that bet.

Chords going out of tune is a given for every trem in existence except the 6-string Steinberger Trans-Trem as well as the 4-string bass version that is no longer made. If you know anybody who bends double stops or chords which stay in tune, then they're using a Trans-Trem.

I suspect from your statement that you may have no idea how tricky it is to design a trem that keeps chords in tune as you move the bar, but if I'm wrong about that and you can design & make them for us in 7, 8, 9 & 10 string versions then I'll be the first to buy from you.

Otherwise enjoy the Kahlers!


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## dpm (Jul 13, 2007)

Indeeeeed.


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## msherman (Jul 14, 2007)

I`m looking foreward to trying this bad boy out 
It`s going into a guitar with Dan`s favorite wood.....Zircote


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## Adam (Jul 14, 2007)

msherman said:


> I`m looking foreward to trying this bad boy out
> It`s going into a guitar with Dan`s favorite wood.....Zircote



Your putting them on your guitars? Sweeeeeeeeet


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## msherman (Jul 14, 2007)

Adam said:


> Your putting them on your guitars? Sweeeeeeeeet



This was a "one off" custom made by kahler for the guitar I`m building for Cool711 (Andre Maharaj).


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## Cool711 (Jul 14, 2007)

angus said:


> How much do you want to bet that that chords (or even double stops) go WAY out of tune when you go up in pitch with it? I'll put money down.
> 
> Looks nice though, but I sure hope it's being used one note at a time!



Dude, I just got it because I like teh shiny black.


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## msherman (Jul 14, 2007)

Cool711 said:


> Dude, I just got it because I like teh shiny black.



 
You two play nice now ......or it`s Sandra Berndhart inlays in your guitars


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## angus (Jul 14, 2007)

stitch216 said:


> Jesus Christ, they are making something NEVER done before, just for us, the ER guitarist, and people are already complaining about the things it can't do.



You going to be alright? People here are so uptight.



Durero said:


> I suspect from your statement that you may have no idea how tricky it is to design a trem that keeps chords in tune as you move the bar, but if I'm wrong about that and you can design & make them for us in 7, 8, 9 & 10 string versions then I'll be the first to buy from you.
> Otherwise enjoy the Kahlers!



The point is that the higher strings are _really_ going to get wrenched because of the length away from the rotational axis. It'll actually help that it's cantilevered because it will probably deflect a bit, but it'll definitely be the limited factor in it's motion range. The deflection is a bit hard to judge because you can't really see how beefy the saddle extensions are, but statement still stands.

I wasn't really talking about a full 8 or 9 string chord- those are out of tune enough just fretted normally.

I think it's a bit unfair to just say "oh, well you must not understand how to design a trem" just because you disagree with me. That doesn't make much sense.

And I could make a trem, and have done so in the past (I have one I made on a buddy's bass). I've designed a few and built about 4, I think- most of them are sitting in my closet. I don't have to make mass production trems to see an unfortunate compromise of design (necessitated by the fanned circumstances, understandably). 

You don't have to design and produce cars to make a critique of one, do you? Same goes here. I don't know why people make that argument.



msherman said:


> You two play nice now ......or it`s Sandra Berndhart inlays in your guitars



Come on, Mike, you know you can't do Sandra Bernhard (or however you spell it) inlays on a guitar- the whole guitar could fit between the gap in her teeth. Or in her nose.







That is one ugly dude. Look at her sloped brow! She looks like the caveman from the GEICO commercials, only probably with more body hair.


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## msherman (Jul 14, 2007)

angus said:


> You going to be alright? People here are so uptight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





She looks a little like David Lee Roth in that pic


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## XEN (Jul 14, 2007)

msherman said:


> She looks a little like David Lee Roth in that pic



"Gimme a bottle of anything, and a glazed donut... to go!!!"


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## Durero (Jul 14, 2007)

angus said:


> The point is that the higher strings are _really_ going to get wrenched because of the length away from the rotational axis. It'll actually help that it's cantilevered because it will probably deflect a bit, but it'll definitely be the limited factor in it's motion range. The deflection is a bit hard to judge because you can't really see how beefy the saddle extensions are, but statement still stands.


Ah ok, now I understand what you meant in that initial post Angus. You must be assuming that the Kahler trems in this thread are fulcrum trems like the vast majority of trems are - eg. Floyd Rose, Wilkinson, Fender, etc. If that were true then you'd be absolutely right to point out that there are some major practical problems with an angled trem pivoting on an angled fulcrum.

However it is not true, and from your second post I'm confident that if you got your hands on a Kahler and tried it you'd immediately understand that Kahlers are a fundamentally different design. Kahlers are a cam type design in which all of the strings rotate on a cam which is separate from the saddles. All of the strings have exactly the same positioning away from the axis of the cam. 

There's more explanation of this on the Kahler website: http://www.wammiworld.com/Trem terms.html

Again the important point is that the cam is separate and independent of the saddle placement, which is why Garry Kahler's design works for both straight frets and angled fanned-fret designs. The saddles don't move and there is no cantilevering, although I can see how you could easily assume that if you haven't used a Kahler before.



angus said:


> I wasn't really talking about a full 8 or 9 string chord- those are out of tune enough just fretted normally.


Are you referring to general intonation issues here? I'm not sure what you're getting at but I'm sincerely interested.




angus said:


> I think it's a bit unfair to just say "oh, well you must not understand how to design a trem" just because you disagree with me. That doesn't make much sense.


Re-reading my response to you I can see how I could have very easily come across as sarcastic there. That was not my intention. Your initial post sounded quite ridiculous without the further explanation which you've now provided, so now I think it's just a simple misunderstanding of how cam trems work. 

I usually try to post in a way which doesn't rely on tone-of-voice to get across the intended meaning & tone of conversation, but I don't think I was precise enough in this case. My intended meaning was not "FOOL! You don't know what you're talking about!!!" but rather "maybe you don't know what you're talking about, or maybe you know lots about trem design that the rest of us don't, and it'd be fantastic if you could provide us with all these custom models like Kahler is - seriously."




angus said:


> And I could make a trem, and have done so in the past (I have one I made on a buddy's bass). I've designed a few and built about 4, I think- most of them are sitting in my closet. I don't have to make mass production trems to see an unfortunate compromise of design (necessitated by the fanned circumstances, understandably).


 Cool! I've been going through a prototyping process for my own trem design as well, I'd love to see & learn more about yours if you care to discuss your ideas. I hope I've helped clarify why the Kahlers work equally well for fanned or straight designs, but if not then I'm happy to discuss it further.



angus said:


> You don't have to design and produce cars to make a critique of one, do you? Same goes here. I don't know why people make that argument.


I absolutely agree with you here. But your initial critique sounded absolutely crazy and was bound to get a strong reaction I think.


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## Cool711 (Jul 15, 2007)

You know Mike, the Sandra thing might be pretty hot.
.
..
...
 

I get what angus was saying, but I think Durero may be right; did you know it was a cam design?

Working with it, it shouldn't be any more limited than an ordinary Kahler trem, which is plenty fine by me.


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## W4D (Jul 16, 2007)

I see you 8 and 9's and raise you a 10.


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## bostjan (Jul 16, 2007)

I think Hell, which has been threatening to freeze over for some time now, just got 1 degree cooler.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 16, 2007)

What's the underside of a Kahler look like? Can you see any of the internal workings of it?


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## Desecrated (Jul 16, 2007)

W4D said:


> I see you 8 and 9's and raise you a 10.



You know, I's not as beefy looking that I had imagine. Looks pretty slick.


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## Durero (Jul 16, 2007)

That's awesome!


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## msherman (Jul 16, 2007)

Aces & 8`s.....I call!

That Josh is a crafty devil......How cool is this?


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## B Lopez (Jul 16, 2007)

msherman said:


> Aces & 8`s.....I call!
> 
> That Josh is a crafty devil......How cool is this?



Whoah! Doesn't look like I expected it to!

Does it have a guitar lined up for it?


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## Stitch (Jul 16, 2007)

Whats the spare bit of metal for?


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## Desecrated (Jul 16, 2007)

msherman said:


> Aces & 8`s.....I call!
> 
> That Josh is a crafty devil......How cool is this?



Holy shitfuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Durero (Jul 16, 2007)

msherman said:


> Aces & 8`s.....I call!
> 
> That Josh is a crafty devil......How cool is this?


Very cool and clever indeed. I'm absolutely amazed how adaptable that original Kahler cam design is! 




stitch216 said:


> Whats the spare bit of metal for?


It's for the extended saddles to have some metal to rest on instead of digging into wood.


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## loneguitarist (Aug 7, 2007)

W4D said:


> I see you 8 and 9's and raise you a 10.



What tuning are your 9 and 10 strings going to be in?

I was just doing some experiments ready for the prototype ten-string I want to make, and with the lowest string at the low E2 of a bass guitar, the highest string (in a constant-fourths tuning) is C#6, which is the 9th fret of the high-E on a standard 6-string guitar. thats a pretty damn dainty little string.


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## XEN (Aug 7, 2007)

Mine will be C1 to A5


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## ohio_eric (Aug 7, 2007)

Dear Kahler representatives,

Soon I will be billing you for a new pair of trousers as the ones I just defecated in have been rendered unwearable. 

 

[action="ohio_eric"] likes the new trems a lot[/action]


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## loneguitarist (Aug 7, 2007)

urklvt said:


> Mine will be C1 to A5



I'm going to assume you meant C2, as if you go down 10 strings in 4ths from A5, thats where you end up. that's a pretty cool tuning and no mistake, but you're gonna need some beasty strings for that low end


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## XEN (Aug 7, 2007)

loneguitarist said:


> I'm going to assume you meant C2, as if you go down 10 strings in 4ths from A5, thats where you end up. that's a pretty cool tuning and no mistake, but you're gonna need some beasty strings for that low end



Whatever the note is one half step above the low bass B. I get my numbers screwed up. The high A will use an 0.006 and the low C will be a full on bass string.


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## Durero (Aug 7, 2007)

Loneguitarist, according to the scientific pitch notation scheme (Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the octaves you're talking about are numbered 1 lower that what you're using. Low E on a bass is E1. E2 is the low E of a guitar. So I'd assume your tuning for your 10 string is E1 to C#5 no?

So urklvt's 10-string will be C1 to A4.

btw have you figured out what scale length you're going to use for your high C#5? Are you going to use fanned-frets?


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## loneguitarist (Aug 7, 2007)

Durero said:


> Loneguitarist, according to the scientific pitch notation scheme (Scientific pitch notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the octaves you're talking about are numbered 1 lower that what you're using. Low E on a bass is E1. E2 is the low E of a guitar. So I'd assume your tuning for your 10 string is E1 to C#5 no?
> 
> So urklvt's 10-string will be C1 to A4.
> 
> btw have you figured out what scale length you're going to use for your high C#5? Are you going to use fanned-frets?



Ahh I see - the octave numbers in Guitar Pro (the tablature software) are different to the ones on that Wiki page. I think that C#5 string will be too thin for my likings, I wasn't thinking fanned frets as that's not really what I was after with this instrument, maybe I'll join urklvt with his C to A tuning, if I could get some really beefy string and maybe a 29" or 30" scale length then I could tune it down to the B of a 5/6 string bass guitar and make it a true hybrid instrument.


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## Bassies7string (Aug 17, 2007)

Please, please, please someone tell me the width of a kahler trem saddle! (please, please, please let it be no more than 1 cm!!!!)

Thanx! 
Bas


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## msherman (Aug 17, 2007)

Bassies7string said:


> Please, please, please someone tell me the width of a kahler trem saddle! (please, please, please let it be no more than 1 cm!!!!)
> 
> Thanx!
> Bas



9.5mm, but there is room for sideways adjustment.


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## loneguitarist (Aug 18, 2007)

If on a 10-string Kahler trem, 5 saddles were adjusted all the way to one side and the other 5 were adjusted all the way to the other side, it could be put on a chapman stick to make a 10 string combo bass-melody instrument with a locking trem


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## heavy7-665 (Aug 18, 2007)

okay if a 9 is tuned A-F#(my preference)what would it bee if i put another low on there?


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## Durero (Aug 19, 2007)

^ C#


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## heavy7-665 (Aug 19, 2007)

Durero said:


> ^ C#



thanks,hmm...........id rather have a 9 tuned High E-Low C#


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## Durero (Aug 19, 2007)

^ 10-strings can get you both - but if you're just interested in going lower then that's perfectly cool too.


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## heavy7-665 (Aug 19, 2007)

Durero said:


> ^ 10-strings can get you both - but if you're just interested in going lower then that's perfectly cool too.



yeah im not much of shredder


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## loneguitarist (Aug 20, 2007)

heavy7-665 said:


> okay if a 9 is tuned A-F#(my preference)what would it bee if i put another low on there?



Assuming you mean the high-A down to the low F# (below the B of a 7 string) then the next string (in 4ths) would be a low C#, which is the second fret of the B on a 5 string bass.


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## Cool711 (Sep 8, 2007)

Has anyone heard about Kahlers with with piezos?
I think I saw something about it somewhere, but haven't been able to find it.


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## technomancer (Sep 8, 2007)

Waylon mentioned that they're working on the Kahler trems with piezos, but it's still being worked on.


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## Cool711 (Sep 8, 2007)

Ah ok cool.
Looking forward to it.


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## Durero (Sep 9, 2007)

Pick-up-the-world has some interesting vibration-sensing material they use in many piezo-like applications, as well as some hybrid magnetic designs:
Enke Designs - Nic's Guitar

I think their under-saddle design could work well with the Kahler saddles.


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## ElRay (Sep 9, 2007)

Durero said:


> I think their under-saddle design could work well with the Kahler saddles.


On a similar note, I've wondered how a custom sized strip of piezo material under a Kahler bridge would sound. Pick-up the World can make custom sized strips. Maybe if you got a piece that was the size of the Kahler base plate minus the mounting holes?

Ray


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## loneguitarist (Sep 10, 2007)

ElRay said:


> On a similar note, I've wondered how a custom sized strip of piezo material under a Kahler bridge would sound. Pick-up the World can make custom sized strips. Maybe if you got a piece that was the size of the Kahler base plate minus the mounting holes?
> 
> Ray



Maybe instead of putting it under the bridge itself, putting it under the saddle assembly - that could be really cool.


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## ElRay (Sep 10, 2007)

loneguitarist said:


> Maybe instead of putting it under the bridge itself, putting it under the saddle assembly - that could be really cool.


I don't think that's possible with the Kahlers. I haven't seen one close-up-enough. Anybody? 

Ray


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## Durero (Sep 11, 2007)

I think some PUTW sensor strips would go really well under the action adjustment screws that each saddle has. The only concern would be if the screw would damage the sensor - might need a thin shim of aluminum or something to protect it.


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## ElRay (Sep 11, 2007)

Durero said:


> I think some PUTW sensor strips would go really well under the action adjustment screws that each saddle has.


Any feel for which would sound better? I'd think you'd get more movement under the saddles, but over a smaller area. Under the base plate would be just the opposite.

Ray


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## joshvittek (Oct 2, 2007)

hey guys/gals, just checking in to see what you guys are talking about regarding the Kahler bridges...although I am not familiar with the PUTW strip, we have tried similar ideas putting contact on the plate underneath the saddles,without the results we would like to have. It works, but not to our liking. Someone pointed out the height adjustment screws possibly damaging the material, I think it would. But under the bridge itself is something we have not done. I'll keep you posted.

Keep the ideas coming, we will do whatever we can to give you guys whatever you want.


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## Durero (Oct 2, 2007)

Great to see you checking in Josh 

Did you see this other Kahler-related thread?

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pi...en-kahler-floyd-rose-vibratos.html#post663995


If there are any solutions to the return-to-pitch-after-a-string-bend problem mentioned there it'd be great to know about.


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## noodles (Oct 5, 2007)

Durero said:


> If there are any solutions to the return-to-pitch-after-a-string-bend problem mentioned there it'd be great to know about.



I noticed it with bigger bends on my '87 Soloist, which I played live for six years straight (before moving to sevens). A tap of the bar will right everything again, but it is pretty annoying.


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## Crucified (Dec 17, 2007)

whats the word on the fanned fret bridges?


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## Apophis (Dec 17, 2007)

what you want to know exacly??


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## Crucified (Dec 17, 2007)

are they available, cost, stability, if anyones tried one etc. i'm probably going to get a fanned 7 or 8 made and i'm going to want a trem. so far i don't have a tremmed 8. so you know, gimme the deets!


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## Desecrated (Dec 26, 2007)

Crucified said:


> are they available, cost, stability, if anyones tried one etc. i'm probably going to get a fanned 7 or 8 made and i'm going to want a trem. so far i don't have a tremmed 8. so you know, gimme the deets!


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## Apophis (Dec 27, 2007)

... any update ???????????????


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## joshvittek (Dec 28, 2007)

I think these might be the updates you are lookig for...

We have sold a few of the fanned frets so far. I believe Sherman has one for a guitar he is currently building. Contact him to see where he is at on the build and what he thinks.

Huskey Guitars Works is currently building two 9 string guitars with Kahlers and I think Halo has been showing off the new 10 string Kahler equipped guitar. These guitars will be at NAMM.


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