# Hey PETA, Fuck You!



## orb451 (Jan 27, 2010)

Sorry, couldn't resist. I just read this:

PETA proposes robotic groundhog for Pa. festival - Yahoo! News

Basically saying that PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment of Animals) wants to get rid of Punxsutawney Phil - a groundhog and replace it with a fucking robot.

God I hate these worthless fuckers. PETA, not groundhogs. Seriously, these people need to lighten the fuck up. Yeah, we get it, hurting animals is wrong, blah blah blah. That little groundhog probably gets better treatment that many Americans living in abject poverty, yet we need to give a shit more about it's "rights" and "feelings" more than we do our fellow man.

That, by and large, is what pisses me off so much about them (PETA). They care far more for animals than they do for people. It's unnatural. I'm not advocating a war on animals, or mistreating them arbitrarily but come on... get the fuck over it.

Meat is murder - yeah, thanks, my ancestors didn't fight their way to the top of the food chain so I could eat veggies.

Eating animals is wrong - Then why are they made out of meat?

Killing PLANTS is wrong. That's why I don't eat vegetables.


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## TheHandOfStone (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree with the OP for the most part. I don't believe having sympathy for animals is in any way a bad thing. In fact, it sets us apart from the heartless predators that PETA so often protects. However, they often choose such bizarre cases to be upset about. I'd be more moved if they spent more time on species that are actually going extinct. I'm sure they do already to a minor extent, but then they go and do shit like this. Oh yeah, I forgot: saving a species from extinction actually takes REAL effort and doesn't always gain you as much attention as bitching about something pointless.  On a closing note: PETA is one letter away from PITA. Coincidence? I think not, as they fit the acronym quite well. 

Incidentally, the only good vegetarian argument I ever heard had to do with resources, not ethics. If the statistics cited were correct, livestock are an inefficient way of providing food, and we could be feeding a lot more people with the crops that are consumed by them. However, this doesn't rule out eating other kinds of meat (fish, deer, etc.) that aren't grown domestically (fish are, but I don't recall any "fish farm" resource argument). It also might not necessitate giving up livestock entirely (this depends on worldwide food shortages). All in all, finding crops that can can be paired to gain the 8 "building block" amino acids found in meat may be necessary in the future. If the world's population continues to grow at the current rate, we need all the "efficient" methods of food production possible. 

/rambling.


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 27, 2010)

while i am an animal lover, i too hate PETA. idiots and shitheads. they are so damn extremist in heaving the animals on their pedestals all high and mighty, that they justify terrorist activity to help a couple animals.

Greenpeace are assholes too, and have caused tons of bullshit over nothing. when america wanted to help some country out with genetically modified corn seeds that were modified to grow easily in the infertile soild they had there, Greenpeace stepped in and told the government in the country that the corn was dangerous, and could cause terrible things, because it was genetically modified. the country refused to accept it, and many many MANY people died from starvation for years to come.

they´re like the creationist people when it comes to evidence. you don´t really need any. you just need insinuations and vague ideas of a concept! this allows you to make assumptions about these things so you can spew lies and fearmongering to everyone to destroy things that are good, without achieving anything.

YAY FOR ELITISM!


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## poopyalligator (Jan 27, 2010)

I am pretty sure that a few months ago PETA wanted to change the name of fish to sea kittens so that people might not eat them if they are called that. They also wanted the group pet shop boys to change their band name. They are damn retarded. I love animals, and I could never imagine hurting one, but they are just fucking ridiculous


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 27, 2010)

i have to agree on pet shops (not the pet shop boys, of couse) are fucking cruel. i was shocked and offended when i visited pet stores in america/canada. disgusting. i wouldn´t trust PETA to change that though. ever. they have a tendency to stand around and bitch and cry about crap, hoping to get others to join them in their desperation, without actually doing anything to help it.


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## orb451 (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah don't get me wrong, I love animals and hate when they're treated badly. But I'm not opposed to leather, eating meat, wearing fur or genetically modified foods or animals for that matter. I like my bunnies fluffy and cute, but if the need arises to make them into shoes, a coat or dinner, then that's fine by me. Putting out lit cigarettes on your animals, leaving them without food and water, etc etc etc are all a no-go with me.

Just think of what we as people could accomplish if we weren't hamstrung at every turn by some "activist" group that had to further their own agenda. Whether it's crops, animals, power generation or whatever...


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 27, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Yeah don't get me wrong, I love animals and hate when they're treated badly. But I'm not opposed to leather, eating meat, wearing fur or genetically modified foods or animals for that matter. I like my bunnies fluffy and cute, but if the need arises to make them into shoes, a coat or dinner, then that's fine by me. Putting out lit cigarettes on your animals, leaving them without food and water, etc etc etc are all a no-go with me.
> 
> Just think of what we as people could accomplish if we weren't hamstrung at every turn by some "activist" group that had to further their own agenda. Whether it's crops, animals, power generation or whatever...



+1!


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 27, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Yeah don't get me wrong, I love animals and hate when they're treated badly. But I'm not opposed to leather, eating meat, wearing fur or genetically modified foods or animals for that matter. I like my bunnies fluffy and cute, but if the need arises to make them into shoes, a coat or dinner, then that's fine by me. Putting out lit cigarettes on your animals, leaving them without food and water, etc etc etc are all a no-go with me.
> 
> Just think of what we as people could accomplish if we weren't hamstrung at every turn by some "activist" group that had to further their own agenda. Whether it's crops, animals, power generation or whatever...


 
yer.. and we'd still have black slaves working the land for us


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## Justin Bailey (Jan 27, 2010)




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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 27, 2010)

I used to be vegetarian  so I used to get behind the message PETA promoted.

Then one day I woke up. Seriously, fuck PETA. They are hypocrites and they are a joke.


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## orb451 (Jan 27, 2010)

Uncle Remus said:


> yer.. and we'd still have black slaves working the land for us



Wait, how the hell'd you arrive at the conclusion that being hamstrung by activists (animal, food, environmental) was tantamount to being hamstrung by activists for things like civil and human rights????

That's a bit of a stretch boss and in NO way what I meant when I wrote that...


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## Uncle Remus (Jan 27, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Wait, how the hell'd you arrive at the conclusion that being hamstrung by activists (animal, food, environmental) was tantamount to being hamstrung by activists for things like civil and human rights????
> 
> That's a bit of a stretch boss and in NO way what I meant when I wrote that...


 
I thought that you were referring to activists collectively


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## orb451 (Jan 27, 2010)

No, that's the essence of what pisses me off about these morons. They're activists that hide behind what seems like a really noble cause and end up fixated on the smallest, least important parts of their "cause". 

Fine line though, between fucking with people's food source, environment, etc and saying "hey, this guy can't vote... he's Black... or she can't vote, she's a woman" etc etc.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 27, 2010)

i agree. fuck peta.


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## ElRay (Jan 27, 2010)

Some bumpersticker I saw about two years ago: said:


> I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate vegetables.


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## xtrustisyoursx (Jan 27, 2010)

Someone should look up the stat about how many animals PETA euthanizes every year. It's quite astounding.


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## orb451 (Jan 27, 2010)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> Someone should look up the stat about how many animals PETA euthanizes every year. It's quite astounding.



And someone should start collecting stats on how many PETA *members* should be euthanized each year as well.


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## Justin Bailey (Jan 27, 2010)

all of them. But that might put Apple out of business


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## sami (Jan 27, 2010)

Peta...right intentions, wrong executions


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## ry_z (Jan 27, 2010)

Hell, I'm a vegan, and I think PETA are generally a bunch of idiots.

Sorry guys, calling fish 'sea kittens' isn't going to help.


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## PnKnG (Jan 27, 2010)

ry_z said:


> Hell, I'm a vegan, and I think PETA are generally a bunch of idiots.
> 
> Sorry guys, calling fish 'sea kittens' isn't going to help.



But...but...but...they are kittens 








I agree. FUCK PETA.

I'm against unnecessary animal cruelty but I'm not stopping eating meat and I'm not against animal testing for medical purpose.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

Any sense of "respecting the cause" completely went out the window for me when they did the "Holocaust On Our Plate" campaign. My family lost nearly all of our European relatives thanks to the Nazi Final Solution. To juxtapose images of animal slaughter with concentration camps is absolute bunk! 

It was one thing to throw fake blood on millionaire fashion designers, but to trivialize The Holocaust is complete and utter shit. 

I'd put a gun to Ingrid's head right now and make her shovel ditches in the freezing cold, until she collapses of exhaustion, then throw her in a fucking oven. What her and her cronies do for their own inflated sense of self worth, and overactive imagination is despicable.


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## Hollowman (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok..It's like with anything else with the human race. theres always extremes or hypocritisim in dealing with people (ex.) religions,politics, Music. Do I think some of the ideals they have is wrong? yes, no organization gets it 100% right. Ever. the Groundhog thing is silly, simply because Phil is basically a pet he's fed and taken care of. the Sea Kitten thing is Silly. Do I think that some of their ideals are right? Absolutily, anybody with compassion would, like Factory Farming or Lab Testing or Live Defurring or Fur Sealing or the treatment of Circus Animals. yes, those I think are and I'll use the term very loose "the good fight".but in the same token have anyone here actually watched some of their videos? Petatv.com. I'm not intentionally plugging them, but pictures or video is worth a 1000 words, watch some of those. they made me personally disgusted to be part of the human race,I became a vegan, I myself believe in not being part of the problem, but. part of the solution. but, in a quite manner. I do know for the thread that people have put up here for their animals,watch some of these they might just change your mind on certain stances,they did mine.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> Ok..It's like with anything else with the human race. theres always extremes or hypocritisim in dealing with people (ex.) religions,politics, Music. Do I think some of the ideals they have is wrong? yes. the Groundhog thing is silly simply because Phil is basically a pet he's fed and taken care of. Do I think that some of their ideals are right? Absolutily, anybody with compassion would, like Factory Farming or Labs Testing or Live Defurring or Fur Sealing or the treatment of Circus Animals. yes, those I think are and I'll use the term very loose "the good fight".but in the same token have anyone here actually watched some of their videos? Petatv.com. I'm not intentionally plugging them, but pictures or video is worth a 1000 words, watch some of those. they made me personally disgusted to be part of the human race,I became a vegan, I myself believe in not being part of the problem, but. part of the solution. but, in a quite manner. I do know for the thread that people have put up here for their animals,watch some of these they might just change your mind on certain stances,they did mine.



I would go COMPLETELY vegan today, if PETA disbanded and it's head staff went into seclusion (i.e. no more limelight). 

I personally think that PETA is single handedly wrecking the animal rights movement as a whole. Look at your stance, it's quiet and respectable. Look at PETA's stance. 

I don't think anyone in this whole thread, or in the gross (see what I did there ) populous, would condone the better part of what PETA is trying to prevent. It's the stupid, inane bullshit, along with shock tactics *AND THE OUTRIGHT FINANCIAL AND LOGISTICAL SUPPORT OF TERRORISM*, that is destroying any valid stance the animal rights movement has had.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 27, 2010)

The unfortunate thing is, PETA are at the forefront of animal rights protesting, and as a result, animal rights protestors are now viewed by the general public as generally insane anti-human criminals, when the real animal rights and environmental groups like WWF and Greenpeace, are doing a lot more for the world that doesn't get seen. Noble causes go unoticed unless you do something stupid to get your way.

Fuck PETA. Feed them to polar bears.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> The unfortunate thing is, PETA are at the forefront of animal rights protesting, and as a result, animal rights protestors are now viewed by the general public as generally insane anti-human criminals, when the real animal rights and environmental groups like WWF and Greenpeace, are doing a lot more for the world that doesn't get seen. Noble causes go unoticed unless you do something stupid to get your way.
> 
> Fuck PETA. Feed them to polar bears.



I do respect individual, and smaller animal rights groups, as by the by, they are the absolute antithesis of what PETA is. In a fundamental sense of course. 

As for Greenpeace, I don't quite have respect for them either, as even in recent times they've been FAR more responsible for some pretty fucked up shit, then anything good. They reached a point of such lunacy that even their founding members (who left the group permanently) speak against Greenpeace's actions in recent times.


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## Hollowman (Jan 27, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I would go COMPLETELY vegan today, if PETA disbanded and it's head staff went into seclusion (i.e. no more limelight).
> 
> I personally think that PETA is single handedly wrecking the animal rights movement as a whole. Look at your stance, it's quiet and respectable. Look at PETA's stance.
> 
> I don't think anyone in this whole thread, or in the gross (see what I did there ) populous, would condone the better part of what PETA is trying to prevent. It's the stupid, inane bullshit, along with shock tactics *AND THE OUTRIGHT FINANCIAL AND LOGISTICAL SUPPORT OF TERRORISM*, that is destroying any valid stance the animal rights movement has had.



see to me, I look at it as a personal choice , I found videos on youtube with people making comments about how funny the videos were. from there I went to the above mentioned website. I don't follow Peta , but I am an animal person and me personally like animals more than people, anyways have been, people to me are very fake. I just threw out a veiw point and honestily me being vegan had nothing to do with them and if you wanted to be it wouldn't be for anyone regardless of Peta or not.

I peorsonally perfer The Sea Sheppard Foundation and what they stand for.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> see to me, I look at it as a personal choice , I found videos on youtube with people making comments about how funny the videos were. from there I went to the above mentioned website. I don't follow Peta , but I am an animal person and me personally like animals more than people, anyways have been, people to me are very fake. I just threw out a veiw point and honestily me being vegan had nothing to do with them and if you wanted to be it wouldn't be for anyone regardless of Peta or not.
> 
> I peorsonally perfer The Sea Sheppard Foundation and what they stand for.



I'm sorry if you were offended by my vegan comment, I thought the little smiley fellow would show that I was speaking primarily in jest, on a couple points at least. The bulk of my post was genuine. 

I've grown up around animals for just about my entire life (had family members with farms in both Western New York and in North Carolina), so I do have a certain love and bond, as well as respect, with and for wildlife, and not so wildlife. I learned that one animals demise often signals the continuance of another's. In both man and beast.

Like I've said, a lot of the points that PETA, as well as countless other AR groups, I fully agree with. Animals should not be abused, even if that animal is going to be my dinner. 

I simply can't fathom aligning my views in this world both public and personal with group who has wrought hatred to my very core. 

As for Sea Sheppards, that's another thing entirely.


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## Hollowman (Jan 27, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm sorry if you were offended by my vegan comment, I thought the little smiley fellow would show that I was speaking primarily in jest, on a couple points at least. The bulk of my post was genuine.
> 
> I've grown up around animals for just about my entire life (had family members with farms in both Western New York and in North Carolina), so I do have a certain love and bond, as well as respect, with and for wildlife, and not so wildlife. I learned that one animals demise often signals the continuance of another's. In both man and beast.
> 
> ...




Oh no not at all...I don't get offended nor do I try to offend, man  My main thing is no Organization ever gets it 100% right. thats all.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> Oh no not at all...I don't get offended nor do I try to offend, man



Good to hear man!


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## PnKnG (Jan 27, 2010)

Hollowman666 said:


> see to me, I look at it as a personal choice , I found videos on youtube with people making comments about how funny the videos were. from there I went to the above mentioned website. I don't follow Peta , but I am an animal person and me personally like animals more than people, anyways have been, people to me are very fake. I just threw out a veiw point and honestily me being vegan had nothing to do with them and if you wanted to be it wouldn't be for anyone regardless of Peta or not.
> 
> I peorsonally perfer The *Sea Sheppard Foundation* and what they stand for.



 Don't get me started on them. Just don't.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 27, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I do respect individual, and smaller animal rights groups, as by the by, they are the absolute antithesis of what PETA is. In a fundamental sense of course.
> 
> As for Greenpeace, I don't quite have respect for them either, as even in recent times they've been FAR more responsible for some pretty fucked up shit, then anything good. They reached a point of such lunacy that even their founding members (who left the group permanently) speak against Greenpeace's actions in recent times.



Oh yeah, but the majority of the general public doesn't from what I've seen. Whenever protestors try to make a point, people just roll their eyes and go 'oh them pesky animal rights protestors, when will they learn'. 

Yeah they have done some crazy shit too I suppose.


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## 777timesgod (Jan 27, 2010)

The only time Peta didnt make me mad was when they protested about obama killing a fly this past summer. They send him a fly trap, i died laughing....


Jokes aside his behaviour was sick, that fly had a family and was really young (a couple of hours alive). Peta for president(s)!


I had two beef burgers for lunch and i felt guilty....went to the gym though and i am fine now.


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## JohnIce (Jan 27, 2010)

Some very valid points have been made in this thread (I'm looking at you, MaxOfMetal ). 

PETA to me is a terrorist group, end of. They've said themselves that they'll condone violence if they feel the cause is right. That's the exact same reasoning that goes behind terrorism, if you think the cause is right, attack! I'll have none of that. If Gandhi could free the whole of India without violence, PETA can free a goddamn ferret without violence.

Basically, PETA aren't promoting ethical treatment of animals, their actions are based entirely on subjectiveness, extremism and fanaticism, and they use these three as valid excuses for violence. Textbook terrorism.


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## Sepultorture (Jan 27, 2010)

"Then why are they made out of meat"

HAHAHAHAHA, gold


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## Dusty201087 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ugh, PETA again? Seriously, when they started out they were pretty awesome. Treat animals with respect, okay, got that, good message that I think most people can agree on. Now it's "never even think of owning an animal and/or look at an animal in the wrong way". Fuck that. 

I'm really thinking about going vegetarian for multiple reasons, so yes I do agree with the whole "no animal cruelty" thing, but any more PETA is just a joke.


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## JohnIce (Jan 27, 2010)

Dusty201087 said:


> Now it's "never even think of owning an animal and/or look at an animal in the wrong way or we'll throw molotovs through your windows and set fire to your children".


 
Fix'd.


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## Variant (Jan 27, 2010)

*Meat, good enough for plants, good enough for me!*  *I mean a quick death for a chicken is way more humane than this fucking sarlac action, don't you think?*


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2010)

JohnIce said:


> Some very valid points have been made in this thread (I'm looking at you, MaxOfMetal ).
> 
> PETA to me is a terrorist group, end of. They've said themselves that they'll condone violence if they feel the cause is right. That's the exact same reasoning that goes behind terrorism, if you think the cause is right, attack! I'll have none of that. If Gandhi could free the whole of India without violence, PETA can free a goddamn ferret without violence.
> 
> Basically, PETA aren't promoting ethical treatment of animals, their actions are based entirely on subjectiveness, extremism and fanaticism, and they use these three as valid excuses for violence. Textbook terrorism.



Bravo. 

PETA = ALF

There's the financial documentation to prove it. Along with the fact they kill roughly 70% of animals they take in. I guess those animals were worthy sacrifices, who died for the greater good. Opposed to the subsistence farmer in Africa who has to kill a goat every now and then to feed his family. Hell, fuck it, compared to the cow who became my Big Mac the other day (which has nourished me for roughly 6-hours), died for more then the hundreds of Kittens, Puppies, and Bunnies PETA is set on "putting down". 

They're in it for the cause, not the animals. If it was about the animals they'd be buying farm land, and not defense attorneys for arsonists.


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## JohnIce (Jan 27, 2010)

Not to mention that most animals bred in a cage will have little to no chance to ever adapt and survive in the wild. Releasing them may well just result in very happy predators, and possibly a lot of starvation when the animals haven't learned to find food for themselves. I'm not denying that many animals are bred in an unethical manner, and that proper, legal action should be taken against it, but the animals already born in captivity are lost cases already, and being a vigilante and releasing them will still get them killed instantly no matter how you slice it.


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## Justin Bailey (Jan 27, 2010)

if a couple mice and monkeys have to die to find the cure for cancer, I don't see the problem. Using them to test beauty products is a bit ridiculous. If you feel the need to test your lipstick on an animal first, just chuck that shit, because it can't be good.


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## Keytarist (Jan 27, 2010)

I don't know too much about PETA, but I have to agree that they are nonsense fanatic people. However, most of the activists aren't wrong. Here, salmon farming is screwing up our lakes with pollution (chemicals, nutrients, spreading diseases). A part of our source of freshwater is being destroyed by a foreign mining enterprise. Part of the southern native forests is going to die underwater, because a foreign enterprise wants an hydroelectric power station there (when it is possible to use alternative energy sources). Most of this irrational human behavior is forbidden in developed countries, but those powerful nations don't care to behave that way outside. 
So I believe that is wrong when activists are charged for terrorism when they argue against soil and animal destruction. They are just trying to stop what those nations won't do in their own country.
And yes...transgenic farming is wrong, just watch 'The world according to Monsanto' there on YouTube.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to add positive feedback.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 28, 2010)

Keytarist said:


> I don't know too much about PETA, but I have to agree that they are nonsense fanatic people. However, most of the activists aren't wrong. Here, salmon farming is screwing up our lakes with pollution (chemicals, nutrients, spreading diseases). A part of our source of freshwater is being destroyed by a foreign mining enterprise. Part of the southern native forests is going to die underwater, because a foreign enterprise wants an hydroelectric power station there (when it is possible to use alternative energy sources). Most of this irrational human behavior is forbidden in developed countries, but those powerful nations don't care to behave that way outside.
> So I believe that is wrong when activists are charged for terrorism when they argue against soil and animal destruction. They are just trying to stop what those nations won't do in their own country.
> And yes...transgenic farming is wrong, just watch 'The world according to Monsanto' there on YouTube.
> Please don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to add positive feedback.



I completely agree with what you are saying, but like you said, you aren't aware of a lot of what PETA is doing. It's one thing to just look at them as fanatical crazies who are just loud and annoying. The fact is, they are downright DANGEROUS. They give millions of dollars a year to know terrorist organizations (look up the A.L.F.), as well as convicted violent felons (look up Ray Coronado). The worst part is, they are painting those who wish to do legitimate good as "fellow terrorists".


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## sol niger 333 (Jan 28, 2010)

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." _Albert Einstein


Peta may be a joke but you can't argue with the facts
_


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## CatPancakes (Jan 28, 2010)

While i hate peta, i agree with some points. Human life is worthless, animals shouldnt die to try and cure our diseases. We are extremly overpopulated. were destroying the earth because there are far too many of us. Humans have this ridiculous idea in our head that we are SO much more important than anything else, and this alone, will kill us all. We are not more valuable than a single animal. In fact were less valuable. Were the only species that could completely disappear off the face of the earth, and not have a negative impact. In fact, it would have a POSITIVE impact. I value any animal higher than a human.


But the ground hog thing is downright silly.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 28, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." _&#8212;Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> Peta may be a joke but you can't argue with the facts
> _



Albert Einstein was a genius, not a prophet. 

He believed in God, does that mean God exists? 



CatPancakes said:


> While i hate peta, i agree with some points. Human life is worthless, animals shouldnt die to try and cure our diseases. We are extremly overpopulated. were destroying the earth because there are far too many of us. Humans have this ridiculous idea in our head that we are SO much more important than anything else, and this alone, will kill us all. We are not more valuable than a single animal. In fact were less valuable. Were the only species that could completely disappear off the face of the earth, and not have a negative impact. In fact, it would have a POSITIVE impact. I value any animal higher than a human.
> 
> 
> But the ground hog thing is downright silly.



If you think that human life is "worthless", and that we are less valuable, and you value the lives of animals over any human then I can only assume you have A) never lost someone you truly love far before their "time", B) you haven't seen some of the great things that humans are doing for one another, often selflessly (look up Norman Borlog), and C) You have yet to truly find another human being that you love. Not in a romantic way, but in a human way. 

Would you sacrifice your little brother for a squirrel? Your mom for an elk? A bus load of small children for a crocodile? 

I guess, I just think we as humans are more then the sum of the bad things we have done.


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## Rotatous (Jan 28, 2010)

I hate peta. They make everyone who likes animals look like an idiot...


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## troyguitar (Jan 28, 2010)

They got one thing right...

(NSFW image is NSFW)

http://www.didntyouhear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/peta.jpg


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## Loomer (Jan 28, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> (look up Norman Borlog)



Saving a billion people from starvation. Good man, good man indeed.


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## CapenCyber (Jan 28, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Albert Einstein was a genius, not a prophet.
> 
> He believed in God, does that mean God exists?
> 
> ...



Einstein did not believe in a personal god, certainly not the christian god.

Secondly, yes people have done wonderful things for each other, but we are the only species which feels the need to needlessly kill and torture each other.

I don't think anyone would sacrifice their brother for a squirrel, but that's not really the point. For instance, I'd sacrifice someone else's brother for my brother because personal experience causes value. 

Would I even sacrifice my cat for a human somewhere that I'd never heard of and never will? Hard to say. Human does not intrinsically equal first in line, we're just bags of meat like every other animal and we can kid ourselves with higher thought and religion but really there's nothing that separates us.


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## Fred the Shred (Jan 28, 2010)

Well, there is true separation between us and animals, and it isn't the romantic visions of altruism and selflessness or higher thought per se.

It's called "power". We dominate the globe via sheer power. We have forged an evolution beyond the natural course of nature and far beyond what mere biological evolution can reach by developing technology to the things we naturally can't. We are a freak species, capable of killing out own planet. This is how different we are - it's not a biological difference, but a rational difference's set of consequences.

Back on topic, while I do appreciate many campaigns which do present a solid case regarding pollution, the extinction of natural habitats and over-exploitation of natural resources, activists do a fine job of masking these important questions by exposing themselves to absolute ridicule with supposedly ethical matters like the absurd case exposed here, which is far from being an isolated case.

Honest to God, who gives a royal fuck about the captive (and spoiled) pet when deflorestation keeps taking place at a worrying pace, for instance?


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## CapenCyber (Jan 28, 2010)

Fred the Shred said:


> Well, there is true separation between us and animals, and it isn't the romantic visions of altruism and selflessness or higher thought per se.
> 
> It's called "power". We dominate the globe via sheer power. We have forged an evolution beyond the natural course of nature and far beyond what mere biological evolution can reach by developing technology to the things we naturally can't. We are a freak species, capable of killing out own planet. This is how different we are - it's not a biological difference, but a rational difference's set of consequences.



If power is what separates us then surely we in the west are more deserving of life than the millions of poor, starving people all over the world?

We certainly make it look that way, we talk about exploiting animals for our uses and probably the biggest animal we exploit is our own kind.


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## MikeH (Jan 28, 2010)

PETA is just ridiculously stupid. I am personally a strong advocate for animal rights. I whole-heartedly support the ASPCA, Humane Society, and like organizations. But PETA takes it too far. It was reported that back in 2005 that PETA euthanized 1,946 companion animals in Virginia, out of 2,138 animals (or 91%) surrendered to them or picked up as strays. During the same year, 126,797 animals, out of 228,376 animals (or 55%) surrendered or picked up as strays, were euthanized at animal shelters in Virginia. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that 3&#8211;4 million dogs and cats are euthanized annually in the U.S. for lack of homes (HSUS Pet Overpopulation Estimates, Humane Society of the United States).... PETA was criticized in 2005 when police discovered that over the course of a month, at least 80 animals had been euthanized and left in area dumpsters. Two PETA employees were seen approaching a dumpster in a van registered to PETA and leaving behind 18 dead animals; 13 more were found inside the van. The animals had been euthanized by the PETA employees immediately after taking them from shelters in Northampton and Bertie counties. But if we eat meat, we're heartless pieces of shit who have no compassion for anyone.


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## Fred the Shred (Jan 28, 2010)

CapenCyber said:


> If power is what separates us then surely we in the west are more deserving of life than the millions of poor, starving people all over the world?
> 
> We certainly make it look that way, we talk about exploiting animals for our uses and probably the biggest animal we exploit is our own kind.



Precisely. We do exploit our own kind. Do I agree we should do so? Evidently not, yet it is in our animal nature to be dominant, to protect our own pack and ourselves. The power we possess makes the manifestations of this instinct far more serious in repercussion, however. 

I love animals, honestly, yet what we are is a supposedly racional version of them, with quite irracional destructive power, and that same power is not confined to raw weaponry. We have to power to make our own starve, die with diseases we can cure, and rot in solitude. 

Isn't it great to be able to disagree with the way the developed countries deal with the third world while living in one of them as opposed to being on the receiving end of the plagues that affect those with no money or resources that interest our own countries? Every piece of clothing we wear, every import guitar we buy, every single electric device in our comfy homes is testament to what the human beast is capable of in the name of self-satisfaction. 

A tiger kills the competition's cubs to ensure his own offspring survives, we kill whatever it takes to ensure our economy thrives. There is far more to worry about than a caged wombat, or poor dogs who are bred to serve as test beds for medicine - there's an entire planet suffering the excesses of our parasitic nature, and this is what needs to change. We risk more than killing the fluffy giant panda, we jeopardize entire echosystems and millions of species with our carelessness.


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## phaeded0ut (Jan 28, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist. I just read this:
> 
> PETA proposes robotic groundhog for Pa. festival - Yahoo! News
> 
> Basically saying that PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment of Animals) wants to get rid of Punxsutawney Phil - a groundhog and replace it with a fucking robot.



I thought it stood for: People Eat Tasty Animals?!?!?! My venison sandwich is mighty tasty. Damn, I should've known better. 

That is pretty silly, I do have to agree.


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## Xaios (Jan 28, 2010)

Don't worry guys, when the time comes that PETA tries to forcibly replace Punxsutawney Phil with a robot... Bill Murray will be there.


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## Keytarist (Jan 28, 2010)

I didn't know that PETA was financing violent groups there, and euthanizing animals. They just came to my knowledge when I received some spam of them in my e-mail box. By the way, there is a pseudo religious sect, leaded by a crossdressed DJ that seems to be worst than PETA. They openly encourage people to kill themselves in order to free the planet of humanity, and even abortion, cannibalism and things like that. The leader hasn't killed himself yet, only because he has to lead the sect. They promote animals and flora rights, and that humans are a sort of disease over the planet. They even have an 'How to' guide to kill your self!!!!, listing different manners such as asphyxia, drug overdose, getting killed by cops, etc.. I'm afraid that I won't put their site here because the stuff is so shocking.


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## CatPancakes (Jan 28, 2010)

CapenCyber said:


> Einstein did not believe in a personal god, certainly not the christian god.
> 
> Secondly, yes people have done wonderful things for each other, but we are the only species which feels the need to needlessly kill and torture each other.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir. This is very true. I wouldnt sacrifice someone i have personal value with, no one would. and it comes down to conditioning also. were told our whole lives were the best, its hard to break such brainwashing.


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## ArtDecade (Jan 28, 2010)

Xaios said:


> Don't worry guys, when the time comes that PETA tries to forcibly replace Punxsutawney Phil with a robot... Bill Murray will be there.


 
When I think about Bill Murray and furry, little rodents, I usually envision him in Caddyshack dropping C-4 into holes all over a golf course!


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## phaeded0ut (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm not sure of why I'm thinking of the South Park episode concerning choosing between a Douche and a Turd Sandwich. I guess they really luv's their animals.


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## Daemoniac (Jan 28, 2010)

I haven't bothered to read the thread past the first page, but I _do_ hate PETA, so I thought i'd chime in 

The thing that shits me about them is that they seem to ignore the "natural order" as it were, despite being a bunch of people supposedly more "in-tune" with the earth.

No meat? What, we didn't hunt and eat our way to the top of the food chain?
No breast feeding? You mean that thing that women have been doing for their children for centuries, that is a natural reaction after giving birth?
No milking cows? Despite the fact that (when unmilked) this causes the cows immense pain?
No leather? Even when it's a bi-product of animals for food? Even when that is what we have used for _millenia_ to wear, for it's durability, abundance, warmth, and so that _no part_ of the animals that were killed for food are being wasted?
Throwing paint on people wearing fur/leather? Really? I don't give two shits what you think of it, it's not your place to do stuff like that, and so far as I (and i would hope the law) is concerned, that's still vandalism/assault. You want people to take you seriously, then stop acting like spoilt little cunts who crack it when you don't get your way/people don't agree with you. You're like the people who throw the chessboard off the table when they lose a game. Harden the fuck up.

That shit, coupled with the disgusting stories you hear about members performing acts of total callousness/cruelty towards animals (the guys caught throwing live kittens or puppies off a bridge is the first that coems to mind) makes me really despise the organisation as a whole.

I'm sorry guys, you're a bunch of fucking hypocrites with absolutely *zero* understanding of the world we live in, no understanding of where we have come from, and you certainly don't give a rats arse about the animals themselves. That much is evident. You won't change _anything_, and on the offchance that you do, it sure as fuck won't be for the better.

/rant


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## MikeH (Jan 29, 2010)

Xaios said:


> Don't worry guys, when the time comes that PETA tries to forcibly replace Punxsutawney Phil with a robot... Bill Murray will be there.



Bill Murray's dead! Did you not see Zombieland?!


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## Maurobrazil (Jan 29, 2010)

I like another PETA " People Eating Tasting Animals " ....


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## Rick (Jan 29, 2010)

^That's the PETA I want to join.


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## Daemoniac (Feb 1, 2010)

All of a sudden i'm somehow reminded of the NAMBLA episode of South Park..


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## Loomer (Feb 3, 2010)

Keytarist said:


> I didn't know that PETA was financing violent groups there, and euthanizing animals. They just came to my knowledge when I received some spam of them in my e-mail box. By the way, there is a pseudo religious sect, leaded by a crossdressed DJ that seems to be worst than PETA. They openly encourage people to kill themselves in order to free the planet of humanity, and even abortion, cannibalism and things like that. The leader hasn't killed himself yet, only because he has to lead the sect. They promote animals and flora rights, and that humans are a sort of disease over the planet. They even have an 'How to' guide to kill your self!!!!, listing different manners such as asphyxia, drug overdose, getting killed by cops, etc.. I'm afraid that I won't put their site here because the stuff is so shocking.



I'd actually like to see that


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## TheHandOfStone (Feb 3, 2010)

Loomer said:


> I'd actually like to see that



Ditto. Can you send it via pm?


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## SD83 (Feb 3, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> I haven't bothered to read the thread past the first page, but I _do_ hate PETA, so I thought i'd chime in
> 
> The thing that shits me about them is that they seem to ignore the "natural order" as it were, despite being a bunch of people supposedly more "in-tune" with the earth.
> 
> ...



qft. I totally agree. I can to some degree understand some vegetarians/vegans because the way animals are treated is pretty fucked up in some cases, but on average, the way we treat humans might be worse. 
And PETA lost ALL credibility when I read about the Phil-thing in a local (serious) newspaper where they also wrote about their constant trying to convince cities to change their names, comparing keeping animals with the Holocaust etc... if animals should have the same rights as humans. plants should have as well!


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 3, 2010)

Don't know if anyone knows about this, but there was a child abuse case here about a year ago, with this toddler who got just ridiculous abuse from his parents. Broken bones, burns etc for a good while until he died at just 17 months.

Now, PETA have put up a poster of his killer and comparing his torture to animal abuse. And it was only put up in the town he was killed.

Now, I think animal abuse is just as sickening as human torture, but you have to have some fucking respect. You don't go putting up shit like this, don't use shock stories in which the meaning only ends up getting lost.

BBC News - Peta poster showing Baby P killer Steven Barker banned


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## highlordmugfug (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm a vegan, and I don't like PETA either. It's lead by and largely populated with elitist extremists and hypocrites that focus on ridiculous things and don't really accomplish anything. Fuck PETA and the Animal Liberation Front.


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## Daemoniac (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh, another thing... The absolutely ridiculous things they get celebrities to do for them 

While Big Brother was on over here a couple of years ago, they got Pamela Anderson to come out here and give the manager of some random KFC (as if that was going to go anywhere in the first place ) a letter asking them to stop "boiling chickens alive".

That's right, _Pamela Anderson_ came out to ask the wrong person to stop doing something they don't do.

Oh i'm sorry PETA, we get our fucking chickens from Ingham Chicken. We don't slaughter them in our own god damn store.


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## TruthDose (Feb 5, 2010)




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## SerratedSkies (Feb 5, 2010)

The only thing worse than PETA is Hillary Clinton.


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## -One- (Feb 5, 2010)

SerratedSkies said:


> The only thing worse than PETA is Hillary Clinton.


Dude. You're my fucking hero now.


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## JeffFromMtl (Feb 5, 2010)

Coming from a vegetarian, PETA can go fuck themselves. They give all those who live a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle a bad name. Whenever people find out that I don't eat meat, 80% of them feel the need to bring up PETA, as if they're the be all, end all of animal rights  I support a good number of their causes, but they really need to calm the fuck down about some things, and seriously rethink their methods.


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## caskettheclown (Feb 9, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> while i am an animal lover, i too hate PETA. idiots and shitheads. they are so damn extremist in heaving the animals on their pedestals all high and mighty, that they justify terrorist activity to help a couple animals.
> 
> Greenpeace are assholes too, and have caused tons of bullshit over nothing. when america wanted to help some country out with genetically modified corn seeds that were modified to grow easily in the infertile soild they had there, Greenpeace stepped in and told the government in the country that the corn was dangerous, and could cause terrible things, because it was genetically modified. the country refused to accept it, and many many MANY people died from starvation for years to come.
> 
> ...



My thoughts exactly man.


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## Origin (Feb 9, 2010)

I absolutely love the Penn and Teller episode, it directly addressed what I had tried to explain to fanatics for a while.

They are terrorists, they are liars, they are extortionists.

Besides all that, you can't argue against the fact that we were born with sharp meat-cutting teeth.  I love when they try to argue against FACT. WE WERE BORN TO CONSUME FLESH. It's not wrong!


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## 4jfor (Feb 10, 2010)

I heard that their main president leader person uses an animal derived medication/drug, insulin maybe? to stay alive. Wondering if anyone can shed some light on that? Cos if so thats pretty fucked up.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 10, 2010)

4jfor said:


> I heard that their main president leader person uses an animal derived medication/drug, insulin maybe? to stay alive. Wondering if anyone can shed some light on that? Cos if so thats pretty fucked up.



Not the head of the organization, but certainly one of the higher ups. I forget her name, but it's NOT Ingrid Newkirk. 

This lady (like I said, her name escapes me) needs insulin to stay alive. Her justification is that she needs it to live, in order to fight for animal rights. That's how she sleeps at night.


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## avenger (Feb 10, 2010)

orb451 said:


> And someone should start collecting stats on how many PETA *members* should be euthanized each year as well.


 


Justin Bailey said:


> all of them. But that might put Apple out of business




Win!


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## Origin (Feb 15, 2010)

@ the apple joke

FUCKING ZING


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## HarryTheVegan (Mar 23, 2010)

I'm a Vegan.
I Judge PETA neither Positively nor Negatively. I simply don't judge.


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## ry_z (Mar 23, 2010)

Origin said:


> Besides all that, you can't argue against the fact that we were born with sharp meat-cutting teeth.  I love when they try to argue against FACT. WE WERE BORN TO CONSUME FLESH. It's not wrong!



No, we've evolved to be able to eat whatever was available. That's not the same thing.

It also says nothing whatsoever about it being right or wrong.


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## anthonyferguson (Mar 23, 2010)

fuck fucking PETA. anyone who thinks it's cruel for a hen to lay an unfertilized egg for my consumption in a perfectly safe environment needs a slap


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## anthonyferguson (Mar 23, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist. I just read this:
> 
> PETA proposes robotic groundhog for Pa. festival - Yahoo! News
> 
> ...




*bend them over and fuck some sense into them*


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## Origin (Mar 23, 2010)

They're just a bunch of maladjusted joiners who have no idea what they're talking about, and want to be part of something to feel special because they're bored. So they get all pissy about things that shouldn't even be of concern, and treat it like a war.

Fuck fanatics, of all kind. They do not deserve respect and if there's such a thing as justice, they won't get it.


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## HarryTheVegan (Mar 24, 2010)

I seem to observe that some of you people are quite judgmental.

You may want to consider a change of perspective, not necessarily to agree with, but possibly to appreciate and understand the point of view of the opposition.

If a Vegetarian or Vegan, like myself, wants simply to not kill something, why should you get so angry about that? Isn't it a law to "not kill", isn't it a commandment to "not kill"? We simply extend that past humans out of compassion, mainly.

I am in no way trying to influence or control you people. I really don't want that, so please don't misunderstand me.

I'm just offering the suggestion that others may be offended by your comments. For example:



> Fuck fanatics, of all kind. They do not deserve respect and if there's such a thing as justice, they won't get it.



"Fuck fanatics, of all kinds", could be understood to be a very _fanatic_ thing to say.

Either way, I love you all; Meat-Eaters, Veggies and even the French.

Namast'e.


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## orb451 (Mar 24, 2010)

HarryTheVegan said:


> I seem to observe that some of you people are quite judgmental.
> 
> You may want to consider a change of perspective, not necessarily to agree with, but possibly to appreciate and understand the point of view of the opposition.
> 
> ...



Harry, I think it just comes down to personal choice. You choose to live a Vegan lifestyle for whatever reasons you have. They are your own reasons and that's cool. Me, I choose to eat meat, again it's my choice. Then you get people like PETA. They not only want to influence the things I eat and the reasons I eat them, but they want to influence what I wear, what it's made out of, etc. And on top of that, they go and do things like getting their panties in an unholy twist over Punxatawny Phil. The damned groundhog lives a better life than most humans in this country and yet PETA gets all uptight over it. To the point where they want to replace a time honored tradition because they *think* the animal is being mistreated, mishandled, abused, etc.

So while people like you and I might be able to just say "to each their own" and let people choose as they wish. People like PETA stage protests, do press releases, etc. Forcing their will, their agenda on everyone. I think it's THEY that need to be a lilttle more observant and considerate and realilze that as much as they love animals, not every single person out there will feel the same way and as such should be FREE to choose what they wear, what they consume, how, where, when and why.


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## Wolfv11 (Mar 24, 2010)

PETA are radicals, pay no mind to them.

They stem from a long line of people just wanting to be special or different. It starts with Veganism in saying "yeah well I wont eat anything that involves animal use" and now the most extreme is Raw Foodism which is basically "oh yeah? well I wont eat anything cooked!" whats next? Perhaps a lifesytle that dicates not eating anything that was farmed with man made machines, just hands.

This is simply nothing more than an "I'm better" than you competition.

Heres some news for Vegans, who mostly eat organic food
-Organic farming requires Organic means of pesticide (there is no such thing as farming without pest control, you would have no crops!) what is organic pesticide??? BONEMEAL, BLOOD, ANIMAL BY PRODUCTUS
Also, in the farming of a lot of food, many feild mice and other little criters die from various farming related activites
If you are a Vegan and drive a car, what is the glue made out of that holds your inspection sticker in place????? ANIMAL BYPRODUCTS

You will never, ever, EVER escape the laws of nature. In some way or another, something will die. You cannot escape it, yes its terrible and I have made a few Vegans upset by bringing this up.

And as a vegetarian myself (who also eats fish) I know this. I know for a fact that the block of tofu i bought the other day came off of a truck that might have run over a few animals, and that the person getting paid to restock the shelf might take that money and buy a cheese burger. You can never escape it, its just nature, and if your going to be more "natural" than nothing is more natural than eating meat. It takes human intelligence to wish to avoid causing suffering and thus abstains from meat. A human in a natural state would not be some majestic being who walks about the woods casually picking figs off a tree.

What I will say about the case of suffering is that yes, by purchasing meat you prolong the suffering and death of another animal. The comment of "well its already dead" is not looking at the whole picture. Of course it is dead, no one here would be so naive as to think that, and of course there are more animals that will be killed, but I, by not buying meat, did not partake in it. At least not directly. When you purchase meat, it is product that needs to be replaced, and is replaced by killing more animals. Also, it comes down to the simple fact that I will not give my money towards something I dont agree with. From the looks of the politics board, I would be correct in saying that almost none of you here would buy a book written by Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh, and in that case I would never buy meat products, or products that DIRECTLY involve the killing of an animal because I dont agree with it. Consider it a life long boycott 

If I lived in the woods as a primitive human, I would certainly eat what I can eat to survive. The day I walk out my door and see a world that looks like Fallout 3 is the day I will possibly change my eating habits, I feel that since I am not in that situation, I will not eat meat. most of us would never kill another human just to do it, but if we were in a life or death situation and were being attacked, then that would be a different story.

Do animals really suffer though? The answer is yes. there is scientific evidince to show that mammals and birds go through the same brain chemsitry as we do when we feel fear, love, happiness, sorrow, and depression. Granted, their psychology is different from ours, therefore they will experience it in a way that is unique to them. If animals didnt suffer, or didnt care, or (and this one really boils my blood) if god or some sort of deity placed them here to be killed for our food (and for bible nuts, there are many places within the bible which condems the eating of Any meat) then we would not need gates to contain them, we wouldnt need to restrain them. The very fact that they will try to run from what they fear is evident enough that there is a will to be free, and a desire to find happiness. If they simply didnt suffer, pigs would not try and escape from being slaughtered, and you wouldnt need to hold a chicken down to cut its head off, you could just place some really sharp siscors around its neck and cut it off. Clearly they do not want to be killed, yet we do it. (and yes im going to bring it up) just as africans would try to escape slavery, and I wonder how many people said that slaves werent human, that maybe they didnt suffer. Of course they would think that! Europeans had only known white skin and certain features as "human" for how many centuries? Of course they would mistake africans for something different, and without modern science or logic, they had no way of telling. Does it explain why they did what they did? Yes it explains it, but does it excuse it or make it ok? NO.

The same for animals, perhaps someday we might have certain inventions that can better process their brain waves and maybe translate their thoughts into some sort of understandable language. And what if we find out that they feel and think very much like we do?? Could you really look into the eyes of something that wants to live, and breathe, and eat, and be free, and willingly slaughter it? If you cant, buying meat makes you a hypocrite. You can take pleasure in the works of others, you could never do it, but its perfectly ok for someone else to kill the animal (there is no such thing as humane killing when the animal easily wants to be free) so that you can enjoy the taste of flesh.

As far as fish? If i could, I wouldnt ever touch fish again, however its hard to live in society and not. I like going to resturaunts, NORMAL restaraunts, with NORMAL people. I cant stand these PETA hippy freaks, theres one Vegan place in the city I go to every so often (its called Blossom for any of you New York City folk around here, amazing food, best vegan/vegetarian restaruant ive found in manhattan) and its only because the people there are somewhat normal. But it is hard to go to a restaraunt and always order something that is 100% vegetarian, and so I choose the most harmless choice I can make, Fish
Fish do not exhibit the same mental patterns as mammals and birds, or even reptiles. They tend to respond almost exclusively to the central nervous system. Do they feel pain? Of course, but they do not process it as anguish or emotionally drawn suffering the same way a cow does when its about to be slaughtered.
Also, and this only works for fresh caught fish and not farm raised fish, purchasing fish works differently than it does for meat. They are caught in large quantities and in a natural environment, my purchasing of them does not weigh as heavily as it does if I were to buy a chicken, which of course would be replaced by simply killing another chicken.


Also, it goes without saying that a vegetarian diet is a heathier diet. Where do I get my protein? Beans, peanuts, Tofu. Where do I get my vitamins? Multi vitamns and eating the right food, actually knowing what certain vitamins are found in vegetables. And while I've never personally tried it, I hear wheatgrass juice is great for that as well.

And for the especially sarcastic group that says things like "just because it doesnt scream when you slit its throat doesnt mean that a vegetable isnt suffering" I too followed this train of thought. Well to solve this answer we just need to look at the brain waves of a tomato plant and......wait, there is no fucking brain! And also, a plant being used for food is a part of its reproductive cycle. When you eat an apple and discard of it, the seeds can be planted, the outer material needs to be eaten first. The same with vegetables, the more you use them and farm them, the more the plant flourishes. They survive by being eaten and used. UNLIKE animals.

Enough of my ranting and raving. as i said earlier, PETA and groups like the ALF are radicals, pay no mind to them, just as their parents probably paid no mind to them which would explain why they act like 9 year olds still.....


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## etcetera (Mar 29, 2010)

Wolfv11 said:


> ...
> Heres some news for Vegans, who mostly eat organic food
> -Organic farming requires Organic means of pesticide (there is no such thing as farming without pest control, you would have no crops!) what is organic pesticide??? BONEMEAL, BLOOD, ANIMAL BY PRODUCTUS



I'm genuinely interested in where you get this information from? A quick search seems to bring up a number of non-animal based pesticides. For example.


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## Daggorath (Mar 29, 2010)

The incisors in my gob tell me that I should eat meat. Our bodies have evolved living on a diet involving meat. I wonder where the hell these people even get their morality. Going against nature is moral? Would you tell any other carnivore they're bad or immoral for doing what comes naturally?

And I do get that the majority of people are vegetarians in protest of commercial farming methods but you could take that stance on absolutely anything you consume. Someone or something has been exploited along the line, it's the basis of modern society.


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## tacotiklah (Mar 30, 2010)

I foresee some flames and neg rep in my future for this but what the hell, why not:

I can sum up my feelings on this in two words: FUCK ANIMALS. I treat them well, I don't beat them and I'm kind to them. But you're crazy if you think that I'm going to never eat meat again. It bothers the shit out of me that people are concerned with saving some random red fungi or a "rare" baby seal, when there are people living in constant poverty and starving almost daily. I bet the vegans wouldn't mind eating meat so much if they hadn't eaten if about 4 days. That bacon might get mighty tasty by then. In fact scientists have proven that starvation will cause a person to eat things they normally don't in order to gain the necessary nutrients. (case in point, I recall a story about a guy trapped out in the wilderness lived off of deer and fish eyes.) We live in a country with so much excess that we become arrogant about what is socially acceptable to eat. 
Do I think people should be kind to animals? Of course, but I can't stand it when people put animals on a pedestal. We're animals as well, no better or worse. We were just gifted with a more complex brain. People tend to chase after pointless causes when there are real people out there in need of help. People like PETA would cross a bridge of starving Ethiopian children to coddle a poodle that gets more in a day than the kids get in a week. 

Call me crazy, but I see this as a serious distortion of priorities.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 30, 2010)

^ I largely agree with your sentiment, but that first sentence man... it could have been worded _way_ better  If you get any neg-rep, that sentence is why


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## etcetera (Mar 30, 2010)

Daggorath said:


> The incisors in my gob tell me that I should eat meat.



They tell you that you are _able_ to eat meat, and that at some stage in our evolutionary history, this was (probably) an advantageous ability. There's a difference between should, and able. There are a large number of people today living in a position where meat is not a necessity for healthy survival.



Daggorath said:


> I wonder where the hell these people even get their morality. Going against nature is moral? Would you tell any other [other ] carnivore they're bad or immoral for doing what comes naturally?



Are you really suggesting that our moral values (an arguably human concept), should stem primarily from the behavior of other animals around us? Chimpanzees appear to have little problem with aggressive behavior, such as rape* -but should our moral values come from our closest living relatives? I think most people would strongly disagree with this notion. Perhaps you need to ask yourself where you get _your_ morals from.




*It's debatable whether or not rape is the correct term when applied to non-human animals. The point, however, stands.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

At the end of the day it comes down to if you believe animals should be afforded the same rights as people. 

As it seems, most people think animals are lesser than we (people) are. 

Personally, I tend to agree. I'm not saying that we should cause undue harm, such as abuse/torture for no gains (food/medical research), but I sure love a good steak.


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## etcetera (Mar 30, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> At the end of the day it comes down to if you believe animals should be afforded the same rights as people.
> 
> As it seems, most people think animals are lesser than we (people) are.
> 
> Personally, I tend to agree. I'm not saying that we should cause undue harm, such as abuse/torture for no gains (food/medical research), but I sure love a good steak.



I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's more accurately a question of whether an animals life is equal to something that is in essence a luxury to most people.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

etcetera said:


> I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's more accurately a question of whether an animals life is equal to something that is in essence a luxury to most people.



Very true, and I can see where you are coming from. While most of the developed world could stop eating meat, as well as using animal byproducts such as gelatin and leather, they don't. 

Why? Because they do not believe animals are entitled to the _right of life_, as much as we (people) are entitled to what makes us happy. Does that make us bad or evil, not in my opinion. I'm sure others would beg to differ. 

Look at it this way, most everything in the modern world is a luxury, including the keyboard and computer you're using to see and reply to this thread. In some way, shape, or form someone has suffered something in order for you to have it. Just ask the young, impoverished Asian boy who lives on the brink of poverty and turmoil building modern luxuries for us. He certainly didn't choose his fate, not anymore than the Cow that became my dinner.

Everything has a cost, and I'm not talking about money.


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## etcetera (Mar 30, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Very true, and I can see where you are coming from. While most of the developed world could stop eating meat, as well as using animal byproducts such as gelatin and leather, they don't.
> 
> Why? Because they do not believe animals are entitled to the _right of life_, as much as we (people) are entitled to what makes us happy. Does that make us bad or evil, not in my opinion. I'm sure others would beg to differ.
> 
> ...




I agree with _most_ of what you've said here. You've definitely identified the underlying problem with discussions of this nature - to what extent does one apply their moralistic values. Logic (or a least a desire to avoid hypocrisy) would denote that we should apply them to all aspects of our life equally, but as you've implied, this can be almost impossible. I don't know the answer to the question, or if there even is an answer within the limits of todays society.

I will however, suggest that becoming a vegetarian/vegan is a fairly small step most people can take in minimising the suffering of other living creatures.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

etcetera said:


> I agree with _most_ of what you've said here. You've definitely identified the underlying problem with discussions of this nature - to what extent does one apply their moralistic values. Logic (or a least a desire to avoid hypocrisy) would denote that we should apply them to all aspects of our life equally, but as you've implied, this can be almost impossible. I don't know the answer to the question, or if there even is an answer within the limits of todays society.
> 
> I will however, suggest that a becoming vegetarian/vegan is a fairly small step most people can take in minimising the suffering of other living creatures.



I appreciate that you can see what I mean. 

Though, another small step could easily be not using a computer, or playing guitars made overseas, or................ I'll just stop. I'm getting quite silly. 

There are millions of things we can stop doing. We just choose not to. 

I feel that vegan-ism (which I respect, opposed to vegetarianism which, to me, is a joke), is too Utopian of a concept for us humans. Where is the line drawn, and for what reason? Do we allow those who don't have the means to procure a vegan lifestyle eat meant? What about those who feel they have religious convictions regarding the consumption of meat? Whose going to tell the meat packers, butchers, farmers, tanners, etc they don't have a job anymore?

Some day, thousands of years from now, perhaps we as a people would be ready for it. Not yet though, not the way I see it. I have zero opposition to the idea of vegan-ism, don't get me wrong. I more or less have a problem with it's current voice.


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## etcetera (Mar 30, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I appreciate that you can see what I mean.
> 
> Though, another small step could easily be not using a computer, or playing guitars made overseas, or................ I'll just stop. I'm getting quite silly.
> 
> ...



I do wonder why you see vegetarianism as a joke though? In certain senses, I imagine it could be quite valid.

The point about religious convictions is a whole new discussion within itself , although I personally hope that in the utopian society you suggest we will have evolved past such ideas. Again, IMO, those who can't survive on a vegan/vegetarian diet shouldn't be expected to, my main "gripe" is with those who do have a choice.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2010)

etcetera said:


> I do wonder why you see vegetarianism as a joke though? In certain senses, I imagine it could be quite valid.



I think it's a joke, because in most cases from what I've seen, the person who is the "vegetarian" still partakes in things which caused (or where drawn from) the death of an animal, as well as the animal's captivity. It's like being anti-religious but still saying grace before a meal. I guess I just see it as hypocritical and half hearted. 

Perhaps there are vegetarians out there who are doing the best they can, but for certain reasons beyond their control they must still eat gelatin and wear leather.


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## Hollowman (Mar 30, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think it's a joke, because in most cases from what I've seen, the person who is the "vegetarian" still partakes in things which caused (or where drawn from) the death of an animal, as well as the animal's captivity. It's like being anti-religious but still saying grace before a meal. I guess I just see it as hypocritical and half hearted.
> 
> Perhaps there are vegetarians out there who are doing the best they can, but for certain reasons beyond their control they must still eat gelatin and wear leather.



Wanna hear something? I bet most vegetarians don't know that if they eat McDonald's fries or Hash Brown then they are still partaking in eat animals since they are made with Beef Tallo. I work in a French Fry factory thats how I know this and that is why McDonald's taste so different from all the others. See being Vegetarian or being part of the Animal Rights there still is a fair amount of hypocritical thought or in some cases extremism involved on both sides. example the show "Surviving Nugent" that was on something like 10 years ago they had a girl who screamed at Ted because she was an animal activist but didn't know that he owns land hires people to protect animals in preserves in Africa, he owns 6 or that his 2000 acre home in Michigan is a wild life preserve instead she ranted and tried to belittle him which I thought was laughable since she was doing this to of all people Ted Nugent without really knowing any background. I myself am a Vegan does it make me a hypocrite? maybe, do I care what other people think? no, it's a life choice I've seen benefit's from it I use to weigh 240 at a solid 5'7" now I'm 212. as for partaking in things drawn from a animals death. that just life I have to wear steel toe boots for work it is a requirement and they only have leather or what is perceived as leather. would I wear something else if I could ? Absolutely and most likely it's probably synthetic anyways. nor do I eat gelatin that shit is nasty. also, I don't believe in god or any religion I myself think it's disgusting nor do I say grace, even when the family wants to for Holidays.


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## tacotiklah (Mar 30, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> ^ I largely agree with your sentiment, but that first sentence man... it could have been worded _way_ better  If you get any neg-rep, that sentence is why




it just sums up my personal feelings when it comes to people that cry "well what about the poor, helpless whales?" At 10% unemployment here in the States, I can't help but think, "fuck those dolphins, I wanna eat regularly and not choose between helping a baby dolphin and dinner. If anything I'd club the baby dolphin and make it my dinner." (note that I have dark humor as well, so bear with me)
I'm also a blunt person (bordering on asshole) so nobody should really take that to heart.

I guess I value human life more than an animals. I grew up thinking that was the norm so maybe I'm just ignorant. I've raised animals for butchering as a kid and I could see how some people would be vegetarian because of how DISGUSTING farm animals are. You guys ever raised a cow? That has to be one of the most vile creatures ever. Dirtier than a pig. They do nothing but eat and shit. And then shit some more. Try spending a few hours a day, every day, shoveling fresh, rank cow dung and see if you don't get a bit bitter about cows. They will crap in their own hay and eat it. They use their tongue to clean their nostrils. Not even pigs do that. Still I treated them as I would a family pet and was never mean to them. I even spent time with them and petted 'em and gave 'em names and whatnot. It's just that I learned to accept the fact that I eat meat and it's a part of my life, so I never got too attached to them.

I also think that a majority of those PETA nutcases have never actually had contact with the animal they are trying to save. I bet you if they were in a room with a bengal tiger, it wouldn't be so much "ah look at how cute that is" as it would be "OMFG GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE, IT'S TRYING TO EAT ME ALIVE!!!" 
Does that mean the animal shouldn't be respected or be mistreated? Of course not, but the notion of "because it's such a cute animal" doesn't fly with me. Most animals smell like the worst form of jock fungus, and many would tear you to shreds the moment they saw you as a form of food. Without any hesitation at that.

It's just the law of nature and people need to accept that. Also 99% of the species that once lived on earth are now extinct. It sucks but it happens to make way for a new species to thrive. Mammals would never have the predominance they have now had the dinosaurs not gone extinct. I hear all the time "I want to preserve this species so that my grandkids can enjoy it." Well that's what taxidermy is for. (i kid, i kid. But still, nature is always changing and if an animal is going extinct, there isn't much we can do about it. I see it as ' if it's their time to go, it's their time to go.')


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## Origin (Mar 31, 2010)

Ghost, you are so fuckin pos rep'd for those two posts. And I absolutely put the well-being of humans above animals. Penn Jillette ranted about that subject once and said: 
"I would personally kill every single chimpanzee on the planet, to save a single human life."

It struck a nerve with me, though I don't think I could follow through with something THAT drastic 

Eat meat? Fine. Don't eat meat? Fine. Become a militant, self-serving joiner who refuses logic in the face of fanaticism and supports fire-bombing of universities so long as it furthers your personal views? There's some missteps in logic -___- 
PETA is literally a terrorist organization. I hope their headquarters burns to the ground, and that smug bitch of a leader they have with it.

My solution would be to kidnap several members, starve them then serve them one of their dead members as meat and force them to eat it or starve to death, making them hypocrites AND cannibals at the same time, inducing psychosis and shaking the organization. But that's PRETTY drastic...to some peop-


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## RenegadeDave (Mar 31, 2010)

TheHandOfStone said:


> I agree with the OP for the most part. I don't believe having sympathy for animals is in any way a bad thing. In fact, it sets us apart from the heartless predators that PETA so often protects. However, they often choose such bizarre cases to be upset about. I'd be more moved if they spent more time on species that are actually going extinct. I'm sure they do already to a minor extent, but then they go and do shit like this. Oh yeah, I forgot: saving a species from extinction actually takes REAL effort and doesn't always gain you as much attention as bitching about something pointless.  On a closing note: PETA is one letter away from PITA. Coincidence? I think not, as they fit the acronym quite well.
> 
> Incidentally, the only good vegetarian argument I ever heard had to do with resources, not ethics. If the statistics cited were correct, livestock are an inefficient way of providing food, and we could be feeding a lot more people with the crops that are consumed by them. However, this doesn't rule out eating other kinds of meat (fish, deer, etc.) that aren't grown domestically (fish are, but I don't recall any "fish farm" resource argument). It also might not necessitate giving up livestock entirely (this depends on worldwide food shortages). All in all, finding crops that can can be paired to gain the 8 "building block" amino acids found in meat may be necessary in the future. If the world's population continues to grow at the current rate, we need all the "efficient" methods of food production possible.
> 
> /rambling.



It's not called "High Fructose Meat Syrup". No one gets type two diabetes eating meat and fish, it's precious agricultural products that brought that to the table. 

The real problem is agriculture has lead to a population explosion that gets worse each year.


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## Whiskey_Funeral (Apr 5, 2010)

I agree, PETA is terrible. I can appreciate their dedication to a cause, but it should be done with more tact and regard for others. It might make people more inclined to sympathize with their cause (not that I would agree with it).

The only way that I'll eat meat (aside from any sort of sea critter) is if I've killed it myself. Meat is tasty. I don't think that fact that the word "meat" rhymes with "treat" is coincidence. However, I choose not to directly participate as a consumer in the meat industry (I do realize that it's nearly impossible to live in our society without consuming any sort of product that harmed animals in some way). It's a personal choice that I try my best to uphold every day, but I don't see why PETA feels the need to shove their agenda down everyone's throats. The only person I can be responsible for is myself and it's wrong to rob someone else of the freedom of making their own decisions.

Very little of it has to do with the fact that I think killing animals is wrong. Everything dies and I believe that how something dies is inconsequential. In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't important. I don't condemn other people for choosing to eat meat. If someone wants to have a diet that consists entirely of Big Macs, that's their prerogative and has no bearing on what I perceive their "value" as a person to be.

The fact that we've enslaved entire species of creatures for the sole purpose of devouring is a little disturbing to me, but I know those warm/fuzzy bullshit feelings are most likely the byproduct of seeing Bambi too many times as a kid. I can think of more practical reasons to live off of a mostly vegetarian diet. 

As a species I think we could manage our resources a little more wisely. I actually think someone mentioned this on the first page. All of the land used to sustain a ridiculously large amount of livestock could create enough crops to end world hunger. When you examine American cuisine, we really don't consider something a meal unless there's a big ass slab of meat involved. When compared to the cuisine of many other cultures, meat is almost more of a garnish. I don't think that nature intended for cows or chickens to be so plentiful. If anything, there should be a mass execution of farm animals. The human to cow ratio is way too close for comfort, if they ever evolve to have some defense mechanism against us we're way fucked. 

My uncle used to run a cattle farm when I was little and some of these animals just looked...very unappetizing. We're talking like...eyeballs rotting out while they were still alive. You never know what sort of diseases and parasites your meat may have had in life. I try to stay away from anything that I haven't personally killed and cleaned. Not to mention that biologically, humans have much more in common with herbivores than carnivores or omnivores. 

Just my .

People need to start focusing more on their own motivations and actions than worrying about those of other people. 

And I never got the whole tossing-paint-on-fur-coats-to-prove-a-point thing. Animals roll around in their own shit and mud. Paint probably isn't the worst thing that has been in that fur.


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## swayman (Apr 5, 2010)




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## The Atomic Ass (Apr 5, 2010)

orb451 said:


> ...genetically modified foods...


Might want to give more consideration to that point.

Genetically Modified Foods: Are They a Risk to Human/Animal Health? (ActionBioscience)

Genetically modified food controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From FAQs - Institute for Responsible Technology :


> What are the problems created through genetic engineering of food and crops?
> 
> Genetic engineers continually encounter unintended side effects &#8211; GM plants create toxins, react to weather differently, contain too much or too little nutrients, become diseased or malfunction and die. When foreign genes are inserted, dormant genes may be activated or the functioning of genes altered, creating new or unknown proteins, or increasing or decreasing the output of existing proteins inside the plant. The effects of consuming these new combinations of proteins are unknown.


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## The Atomic Ass (Apr 5, 2010)

swayman said:


>


I belong to this organization.


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## swayman (Apr 5, 2010)

The Atomic Ass said:


> I belong to this organization.



As do I sir, as do I...


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## swayman (Apr 5, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Yeah don't get me wrong, I love animals and hate when they're treated badly. But I'm not opposed to leather, eating meat, wearing fur or genetically modified foods or animals for that matter. I like my bunnies fluffy and cute, but if the need arises to make them into shoes, a coat or dinner, then that's fine by me. Putting out lit cigarettes on your animals, leaving them without food and water, etc etc etc are all a no-go with me.
> 
> Just think of what we as people could accomplish if we weren't hamstrung at every turn by some "activist" group that had to further their own agenda. Whether it's crops, animals, power generation or whatever...



Dude don't even get me started on GM food, this topic really pisses me off!

How is it fair that people who are able to simply drive/walk to a supermarket can hold the opinion that GM food is bad? That's like saying "I don't have cancer & I hope a cure is never found".

There is a massive food distribution issue on this planet.

1: We don't produce enough food. Answer to that = GM Food

2: We waste at least 20% of the food we produce. Answer to that = STOP BEING WASTEFUL MOTHERF*&KERS...


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## The Atomic Ass (Apr 5, 2010)

swayman said:


> There is a massive food distribution issue on this planet.
> 
> 1: We don't produce enough food. Answer to that = GM Food
> 
> 2: We waste at least 20% of the food we produce. Answer to that = STOP BEING WASTEFUL MOTHERF*&KERS...


1: Wrong. The United States alone, by itself, was capable of producing enough food to feed the world five times over, 50 years ago when the population was about half what it is today. This was before GM foods. The United States government pays farmers not to grow anything on their land, to create artificial scarcity.

2: No argument there. I used to throw out bread when it got moldy, now I buy drier bread that doesn't mold before I eat it.


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## willybman (Apr 15, 2010)

people eating tasty animals member


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## ralphy1976 (Apr 15, 2010)

People Eating Tasty Animals membership request please...


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## behemoth91 (Apr 15, 2010)

killing plants is wrong because we need plants to breath and stop global warming, eating cows stops the production of something like 2 billion tons of methane gas from reaching the ozone and rotting it away. SCREW VEGGIES, KEEP EM IN THE GROUND, I WANT ME A HAMBURGER DAMNIT!!!!!


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