# Sustainer/Sustainiac pickup 8 string?



## thinkpad20 (Apr 11, 2009)

Does it exist? That would be really cool to throw in the neck position of my incoming RG8


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## jsousa (Apr 11, 2009)

Cool idea for sure


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 11, 2009)

jsousa said:


> Cool idea for sure


Are you joeyinflames on HCAF?


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## yevetz (Apr 12, 2009)

Max was working on a 7 string one


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## matttttYCE (Jul 9, 2009)

This would be so awesome! Someone, somewhere, make it happen! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


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## Harry (Jul 9, 2009)

Unless you make it yourself, not a chance.
It's just not viable for Sustainiac to make this a production thing, it just wouldn't sell.
As it is, most 6 string guitarists are not interested in it, so why would it be made for 8 strings?


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 9, 2009)

i would love an 8 string one, but they just gave in to all the pressure and released a 7 string one, so i don't think we can nag them for an 8 string one just yet 

it would be cool if more companies entered the sustainer market, considering we have fernandez, sustainiac, and now (sort of) moog...


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## phaeded0ut (Jul 9, 2009)

There's a 7-string one via Fernandez (I've one of their 7-string fretless guitars) , but I don't think that there is an 8-string one, yet... Have to agree, I'd love to see such a beastie, though an e-bow is often a very decent suitable substitute.

Didn't know about Moog getting into it, too. I'll definitely have to look that up.


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## daemon barbeque (Jul 9, 2009)

We contacted Sustainiac for that. I wanted a Custom 8 string multisclae one hahah. They said it's impossible to do.
It's possible to do the 8 string for straight fretted guitars.


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## matttttYCE (Jul 9, 2009)

Harry said:


> Unless you make it yourself, not a chance.
> It's just not viable for Sustainiac to make this a production thing, it just wouldn't sell.
> As it is, most 6 string guitarists are not interested in it, so why would it be made for 8 strings?




It isn't viable right now, but when you consider the fact that there was enough of a demand for a 7 string version for Fernandez to make one and the amount of people taking the plunge on 8s now, especially with the more affordable Agiles, I would think there will be a fair number of people looking for one down the road. But with the production 8 string guitar being relatively new and with few affordable production 8s available, it's going to be a while, IF it happens at all.

Buy hey, a guy can (pipe) dream, can't he?


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## phaeded0ut (Jul 9, 2009)

Another option might be to re-engineer or reverse engineer a Gizmotron. Gizmotron 
PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => Gizmotron

It was a device that attached over and in front of your bridge (ran on 2 AA batteries) with a button per string that activated a motor rotating a neoprene disk that touched the string. Sounded fairly cool, too. Looks, though, ... "cheap" as a descriptor comes to mind. The bass one had a bad habit of breaking down and chewing through batteries pretty quickly. I think that we've much more efficient electric motors than what was available in the 1970's, so this might be an option if you want to activate more than one string at a time like a Heet Sound e-bow EBow ::::::::: Sustaining the Planet ::::::::: .


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## peskywinnets (Dec 11, 2009)

I make sustainers in my spare time. 

Depending on the _specific _requirements, there's a fair possibility, that soon I'll be in a position to make bespoke 8 string sustainers.

I've just knocked one up for my Ibanez (albeit six string, but same principles apply...just more strings!!)....

 

(ignore the first 18 seconds, because it's just me dicking about showing the LEDs operating as a bargraph!).

It could even have invisible sexy switching, as I've just devised a way to use screws on the guitar as touch switches...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNeSzgY2234

So for those that hold an interest...fire away with what your requirements would be!


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## Durero (Dec 11, 2009)

Fascinating! Please tell us more 

Are the coils in the same part at the edge of the fingerboard that the LEDs are?
Do you have to route there? It looks like you've removed a bit of wood from the very end of the fingerboard.
I assume you need to use it with only your bridge pickup on, is that correct?
Is the power source onboard batteries or an external transformer?
Where's the circuit board installed?

Obviously I'm seriously interested in custom sustainer designs. What I require is a modular single-string system so I can adapt it to multi-channel outputs and any number of strings as well as multi-scale (fanned-fret) designs.

Tell us more about your sustainers 


Edit: Oh and I love the blinky lights


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## cyril v (Dec 11, 2009)

awesome stuff there pesky!


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## Gameboypdc (Dec 11, 2009)

I think I just experienced my first GAS moment!


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## peskywinnets (Dec 11, 2009)

Damn...I just typed the mother of all replies & accidentally hit a key on my keyboard which closed the window!

I better clear up a few things before you all get too excited! (I'm keeping it short this time)

I've been R&D'ing Sustainers in my spare time for about 8 months...so I know a good bit about them. I've now got together my own 'take' which is like no other existing sustainer offering - not necessarily better, just much different from existing solutions. For example something that has troubled me about sustainers since the outset is having to drill your guitar to fit the extra switches - not ideal, therefore about 2 weeks ago, I finally worked out how to use scratchplate screws as 'touch' switches....voila, no drilling for toggle switches now needed!

I should just point out - even though I was already a member, I found this thread via google & perhaps have got a bit ahead of myself...for all my design works well, there's still some work to do to (formalise the PCB layout etc).

That said, I see no major obstacle to offering 8 string sustainers in the (not _too_ distant) future.

Re the Ibanez RG sustainer I linked you to, yes I had to route out the bit of wood at the end of the neck - this allowed me to shoehorn in my own coil (I wind them myself)..specifically made for that guitar. This allows me to keep the guitar's existing pickups (unlike other sustainers, which all require you to forsake your guitar's original neck pickup). You can read more about the circumstances behind this particular implementation here...

Homemade DIY Sustainer for my RG (& keeping the original neck pickup) - RG Series - Ibanez Forum

It's actually not the final version, but I just couldnt resist making a quick 'n dirty one one for my RG...as it has a floating trem....and Sustainers + Floating trem = Guitar Heaven (for me at least). I

To Durero's questions...

_Are the coils in the same part at the edge of the fingerboard that the LEDs are?_ - YES
_Do you have to route there? It looks like you've removed a bit of wood from the very end of the fingerboard. -_ YES (see the URL I linked to elsewhere in this thread)
_I assume you need to use it with only your bridge pickup on, is that correct? -_ CORRECT, the bridge pickup feeds the sustainer circuit_._
_Is the power source onboard batteries or an external transformer? - _That was a prototype & not finalised, the circuit was 'off guitar' on a bread board with external power etc. Obviously the final version will have onboard power.




So, tell me what the 'must haves' & 'nice to haves' are in your ideal sustainers...I'd love to hear your views.


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## Durero (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks for the reply pesky 

I know this is not the most common situation, but a must have for me is a modular design that can be adapted to any number of strings. You seem to manage with a very small coil, can you give us an idea of the dimensions you're working with? Great that it's so small.

Is it possible to use your design with an outboard power source and circuitry?


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## peskywinnets (Dec 11, 2009)

re your modular design...I doubt anyone will offer that anytime soon, as most guitarists have (in the main) six strings with no intention of growing to seven or eight strings etc. Even if they did have that intention, I think most would just accept that they'd have to buy a different sustainer each time. Sustainers are very niche (which puzzles me as in my eyes, they are the best thing that you can ever add to your guitar's sonic arsenal), but going modular would be niche of a niche - an almost non existent market. Furthermore, modular would need a single string coil approach...._nobody _does single string sustainer coils! (that said, one of my resolutions for 2010 is to build a HEX sustainer - I started off my R&D winding single string coils, but then got diverted into larger six string driver coils while waiting on someone making me a small rig to allow me to wind single string coils quicker)

Re the dimensions...well, I can make them just about any size (within reason....basic physics applies, the coil has to generate sufficient drive into the strings)...for example, the sustainer, I'm making for my Variax guitar here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=106Se7AHknc

is just 5mm tall, by about 15mm wide. (ignore how rough it looks, it's a proto)

For the Ibanez video I linked you too in my original post, it was 9.5mm wide, by about 8mm tall.

re external power - no probs at all (I'm puzzled why existing commercial sustainers haven't at least offered this as an option!)


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## Variant (Dec 12, 2009)

^
That sounds fuckn' tasty.


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## Scarpie (Dec 12, 2009)

pesky that is so awesome!!!!!!!


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## peskywinnets (Dec 12, 2009)

Thanks guys...I'm actually quite pleased with how my 'own take' on a Sustainer is progressing.

I'm here in Brazil until 1st Jan, but upon my return to London, will hopefully have my final design all PCB'ed up, tested & ready to use the end of Feb.

I can then think about giving some attention to the overlooked niche areas...8 strings, chapman sticks - infact anything with steel strings that the owner wants to keep ringing!


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## Durero (Dec 20, 2009)

pesky a hex sustainer is exactly what I'm after 

I can offer help with the single string coils if you need someone to wind them for you (I wind my own single string pickups) but it sounds like you're on your way with making your own.

In general your designs look wonderfully low profile and unobtrusive 

Please keep sharing your developments with us - very exciting to see what you've achieved already and where you're heading with it.


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## 7deadlysins666 (Dec 20, 2009)

Is there any other company that makes sustainer/sustaniacs? I would love a 7 string version for one of my guitars, But I really don't want to drop $260 for one. If there is any somewhat cheaper alternative, it would make me very happy. I am poor, and only get to buy gear at tax time, so I have to make it last


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## signalgrey (Dec 20, 2009)

my biggest issue with the sustainer system is that im giving up my neck pickup.
i know i still have one but its not MY choice yknow?

i would want a sustainer for a sevenstring that would still let me have my neck pup.
maybe go Uli Jon Roth and put the sustainer under the neck.


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## Trespass (Dec 21, 2009)

signalgrey said:


> my biggest issue with the sustainer system is that im giving up my neck pickup.
> i know i still have one but its not MY choice yknow?
> 
> i would want a sustainer for a sevenstring that would still let me have my neck pup.
> maybe go Uli Jon Roth and put the sustainer under the neck.



This, and that it forces me to use the bridge pickup. In my mind, getting my own neck pickup somehow makes it at least passable. 

I would love one of these sustainers for my 8! If we get individual hex pickups/drivers, they eventually could be calibrated for the gauge differences in an 8 string as well. I would LOVE to have a nice, balanced, chordal sustain, as opposed to the unbalanced sustain of a Sustainiac or Fernandez.

Imagine thick cello like lines on the lower register. Typical guitar stuff on the high. Sounds excellent!


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## 7deadlysins666 (Dec 21, 2009)

Could you not replace a middle pickup with a sustainer? Say like a Universe? Instead of sacrificing the neck pickup. Honestly, im a 1 hum 1 vol type of guy, so it really doesn't matter to me, but it would be interesting if you could replace a middle single coil with the sustainer.


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## Durero (Dec 21, 2009)

I have an old Sustainiac brochure from the 90's where their design at that time was a middle-position sustainer that was externally powered.

Why they discontinued that design I don't know, but their designs since then have all been neck-position and onboard battery powered. Perhaps 9V batteries are not strong enough to power a middle-position driver.


At any rate a middle-position driver can and has been done before


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## 7deadlysins666 (Dec 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I have an old Sustainiac brochure from the 90's where their design at that time was a middle-position sustainer that was externally powered.
> 
> Why they discontinued that design I don't know, but their designs since then have all been neck-position and onboard battery powered. Perhaps 9V batteries are not strong enough to power a middle-position driver.
> 
> ...



Hmmm.... now to find someone to make a 7 string version... (and buy a 7 string guitar with a middle pickup)


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## darren (Dec 21, 2009)

Sustainiac only just started making their sustainer in the last few months... i wouldn't expect to see an 8-string version any time soon.


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## darren (Dec 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I have an old Sustainiac brochure from the 90's where their design at that time was a middle-position sustainer that was externally powered.
> 
> Why they discontinued that design I don't know, but their designs since then have all been neck-position and onboard battery powered. Perhaps 9V batteries are not strong enough to power a middle-position driver.
> 
> ...



My guess is that there was too much electromagnetic cross-talk between the sustainer driver and the pickups. If Sustainiac stopped doing it, it's likely for very good reason. They've likely done more R&D on these things than just about anybody.


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## signalgrey (Dec 23, 2009)

^ Darrens right

if you look on the Sustainiac page they explain everything. you have to have it in the neck. you cant have a middle pup. it cant be angled etc...

seems so limiting.

on one hand you gain the sustaining tool but you are losing control over your Pup choices etc...

i want one definitely....but i want one thatll let me use my neck pup. im suprised THAT has been engineered yet.


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## 7deadlysins666 (Dec 23, 2009)

signalgrey said:


> ^ Darrens right
> 
> if you look on the Sustainiac page they explain everything. you have to have it in the neck. you cant have a middle pup. it cant be angled etc...
> 
> ...



I never use neck pickups....actually I don't currently have a guitar with a neck pickup... I will have one delivered tomorrow with one, and then after christmas I will be getting one with two pickups, but I really never use the neck pickup. I really like the 1 pickup/1 volume look and sound. If I could just find one that was less than $250 I would be happy, but I think i'll have to break down and buy the sustainiac if I really want one.


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## peskywinnets (Mar 31, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> my biggest issue with the sustainer system is *that im giving up my neck pickup.*
> i know i still have one but its not MY choice yknow?
> 
> *i would want a sustainer for a sevenstring that would still let me have my neck pup.*
> .


 
Sorry, don't check in here that often - just seen the follow ups.

Re having to give up your neck pickup - I agree that's a pisser & addressing that failing is a major point of my intended sustainer design - ie you get to keep your neck pickup.

To this end, expect some significant inroads over the next few months!


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 1, 2010)

see that? above the neck pickup? see that there?

it´s a custom sustainiac 8 string sustainer, made for manne guitars 

Manne Guitars - 8 strings it´s the fretless one a bit down on the site.

and it wouldn´t be impossible to do a fanned fret one. you could just angle it. i know they say angled sustainers is a no-no, but the entire scale is angled just the same, and the bridge pickup is angled the same as well. so the distances would be the same.


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## peskywinnets (Nov 3, 2010)

If anyone wants an 7 or 8 string sustainer, shoot me off an PM - I can likely make a custom one for your guitar.

Just one disclaimer - I don't make sustainer driver/_pickup_ combos (in other words no removing your neck pickup to fit a a combined driver/pickup) ...my sustainer driver will needs to sit alonside your neck pickup - preferably in the gap between your neck pickup & neck end.


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## Durero (Nov 3, 2010)

Fantastic! Please tell us more.

Do you have any more pics, vids, specs, links to threads on other sites, or the like?

Of course I'm sure everyone will want an idea of price range as well.

Can't wait to hear more about your sustainers


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## peskywinnets (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm towards the end of a very long journey!

This started out as me wanting a sustainer for all my guitars - but *not* wanting to give up a pickup to have one (which is what all the present commercial offerings force you to do - that's unacceptable in my books). So that was my initial target....to make my own sustainer where I could keep the pickups.

So initially I turned to the net for a design - now there are a whole heap of DIY sustainer designs on the net - most are too basic and tend to have flaws of one kind of another - for example ok sustain on the lower strings - but awful sustain on to B & top E or vice versa. 

So basically, I started with a blank sheet of paper (i've a background in electronics) - I've since wound heaps (& I mean heaps) of driver coils towards honing down & getting to the very essence of what's needed. i've built/rejected an equal amount of circuits! 

It's taken me a good while to get to this point but I'm now at the point where I've nailed all the technicals.

My intention is now to fill _niche_ areas...the ones not covered by the big players.... (eg 8 strings guitars etc - in fact anything with steel strings!) 

So, to your points....

_



Do you have any more pics, vids, specs, links to threads on other sites, or the like?

Click to expand...

_ 
At the moment ...no. Now I'm not so naive to think folks are going to come knocking at my door wihen I have no pics, videos or a website - so obviously all this will follow in time. This is more me saying _ "Hey, I exist & if you've specific requirements then let's talk" _

As it goes, I have in the past uploaded a couple of ropey videos of me messing about during the proto/R&D phase - for example ....

(note none of what I intend offering/delivering will look like these rough coils that you see in these videos - these were for testing only)


 (just uploaded the other night - meant to illustrate how strong the sustain is - there's no right hand string plucking just my LH 'fingering' the frets - disregard the bit at the end, where I'm just tapping out manual harmonics!)

Dabbling with Harmonic mode  

Sustainer Bling? 





> Of course I'm sure everyone will want an idea of price range as well.


 
Well, to be blunt, at the moment, I still hand make _everything_ - be it CAD'ing a bespoke bobbin to wind the driver coils onto, or making the PCB...I do the lot - and it takes a while! 

I'm not intending competing with the present commercial players - they have their market, I'll leave them to it. My price will be comparable to others but offer distinct differences....

1. You don't have to give up any of your pickups (assuming you've sufficient guitar real estate to colocate a small driver)
2. A simpler fit (the idea is that most technically competent could fit it without breaking into a cold sweat!)
3. Bespoke - it'll be tailored to your guitar.

Any more questions ...just fire away!


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 10, 2013)

Bump...

Is this ERG sustainer deal still a thing?


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## AxeHappy (Nov 10, 2013)

Yeah, seriously. I would love to get a customisable sustainer.


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## Corrosion (Nov 10, 2013)

Ditto.


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## InfinityCollision (Nov 12, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Bump...
> 
> Is this ERG sustainer deal still a thing?



The guy above you is this guy, which should answer your question at least in regards to anything he might ever (not) do. Don't be surprised if he randomly pops in on this thread though.

On the other hand, the Cycfi project I mentioned further up in that thread recently claimed success in building a poly sustain prototype, so things might finally be coming along.


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## Corrosion (Nov 12, 2013)

Thanks. Appre iate it


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## djowel (May 14, 2014)

InfinityCollision said:


> On the other hand, the Cycfi project I mentioned further up in that thread recently claimed success in building a poly sustain prototype, so things might finally be coming along.



Here's a very early prototype of the the Infinity Polyphonic Sustain System. The proof of concept video demonstrates dual sustainer drivers at the neck position with the Neo6 polyphonic pickup at the bridge. In this demo, the sustain drivers drive the two upper strings (B and E). The high, thinner strings are the most difficult to drive due to low mass and weak magnetic pull. The thicker strings are a lot easier to drive into infinite sustain.

Here's the link: To Infinity and Beyond! | Cycfi Research


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## djowel (May 14, 2014)

djowel said:


> Here's a very early prototype of the the Infinity Polyphonic Sustain System. The proof of concept video demonstrates dual sustainer drivers at the neck position with the Neo6 polyphonic pickup at the bridge. In this demo, the sustain drivers drive the two upper strings (B and E). The high, thinner strings are the most difficult to drive due to low mass and weak magnetic pull. The thicker strings are a lot easier to drive into infinite sustain.
> 
> Here's the link: To Infinity and Beyond! | Cycfi Research



I started a new thread on this project, in case anyone's interested:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pickups-electronics-general-tech/270657-infinity-polyphonic-sustain-system.html


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