# 7321 mod time! Incoming veneer content!



## JosephAOI (Jul 29, 2013)

So, I've had my 7321 for about a year and a half now and I love it far more than 98% of guitars I've played. But the black and stock pups have got to go. Here's what I'm planning:

- Koa Veneer
- Dimarzio Tone Zone bridge
- Dimarzio Air Norton neck
- Koa headstock veneer
- Ibanez Prestige logo

I think it'll look awesome and at some point, I'd like to change all the hardware out for gold HW but that'll be way later.

Anyway, I'm worried about how difficult it'll be to do the veneer. Is it as tough as it seems? What should I absolutely know about doing it? Any suggestions, other mods?


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## bob123 (Jul 29, 2013)

Simply my opinion, but pass on the prestige logo please. Putting a ferrari emblem on your toyota doesn't make it so. Its your guitar, do something cool and unique. 

A gold mirror "Ibanez" logo would look sick and match your hardware. 

anywho, should be a cool look. Koa is freaking awesome, one of the few woods that looks good doing literally nothing to it haha.


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## DistinguishedPapyrus (Jul 29, 2013)

Heres a suggestion about applying the veneer: Get an old credit card and cut a bunch of little notches in the edge of it with a file, this'll be your glue spreader to spread the glue very evenly. (the notches shouldn't be any bigger than roughly the diameter of those little coffee stirring straws, and just for the purpose of a veneer application, I'd even make then a bit smaller). That'll control the amount of glue on the surface so when pressed down to clamp the glue wont "bleed through" and leave any blotches. I've used this trick on all the glue joints of my build and its greatly increased the quality of the build.

also, get a sheet of acrylic or some other type of real stiff and flat yet bendable material. use that to clamp the veneer down. It'll put even pressure over the surface of the body and allow you to clamp it down real good over the forearm curve as well. 

I've got a 7321 also and have been thinking about doing a veneer finish, but anyway, just my two cents. Thats what I'd do.


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## JosephAOI (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm not putting the prestige logo on it to make it appear as if it is one. I just like the way they look as opposed to the annoyingly large check mark. Especially on 7's 

Should I just clear coat it? Just put the veneer on, and clear coat?


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## bob123 (Jul 29, 2013)

For koa? yeah just do a sealer coat, then clear it. 

for headstock decal -> 

Ibanez "Studio ST50" Headstock Decal [hsiba014] : Best-Decals.com, Your One-Stop Decal-Shop


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## Randy (Jul 29, 2013)

Veneering, you want to either use hide glue or epoxy. 

Without a vacuum press, it's VERY difficult to get the veneer to take using wood glue. Because wood glue is really thin, it saturates the veneer and causes it to bubble or wave easily, even using acrylic method mentioned above. Hide glue is used pretty much specifically for this purpose and thick enough epoxy will work the same.

A thicker veneer will be less prone to distorting but getting a thick koa veneer can be difficult and VERY expensive.


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## JosephAOI (Jul 29, 2013)

The veneer I'm gonna get is 1/42" so it's pretty damn thin. Using a vacuum press is probably too expensive for me to consider though, isn't it?


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## Daf57 (Jul 29, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> I think it'll look awesome...



Yeah it will!! Good luck and I'm in for the updates!


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## Randy (Jul 29, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> The veneer I'm gonna get is 1/42" so it's pretty damn thin. Using a vacuum press is probably too expensive for me to consider though, isn't it?



To purchase? Yes. 

My old high school and the local community college both had them, though. That's an option you can consider, if you know anybody that can hook you up.

I've also heard of some way of doing it using one of those plastic bags that soda syrup comes in but I'm not super familiar with the concept.

The hide glue I mentioned early (particularly the kind you melt) is thick enough that it won't cause the veneer to bubble up. Same basic concept they use here:

Video: Hammer Veneering with Steve Latta | Watch The Woodwrights Shop Online | PBS Video

Yes, I just went PBS on your ass.


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## JosephAOI (Jul 29, 2013)

Doesn't need to be absolutely 110% perfect anyway. My 7321 is gonna be my workhorse. I just want it to look a little better.

Is this stuff good?

Titebond Liquid Hide, Titebond Wood Glue, Titebond Adhesives, Wood Finishes, Wood Glues & Parts - McFeely's


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## Randy (Jul 29, 2013)

I haven't tried it on anything that thin. I've used the titebond on a 1/8" thick veneer on a cabinet before and it worked well but I'm not sure how well it holds up when applied to something really thin. I'm sure somebody else on the interwebs has tried it though.


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## JosephAOI (Jul 29, 2013)

.... it, may as well try it. It's not like it'll leak through the wood, right?


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## bob123 (Jul 29, 2013)

titebond 1 or 2 is absolutely fine for a veneer. Just don't glop it on. Think of back in grade school when you used elmers glue on paper. If you use too much, it will bubble. You want a nice, THIN, EVEN coat on both sides. You NEED to put glue on both sides, its how wood glue works. 

I use a foam paint brush to apply, then use a credit card or something similar to scrap most of it off. Thats all you need since it's not load bearing.

Pass on the epoxy. If you mess up epoxy, you're done. It's also an absolute bitch to clean. Its meant more for structural things, not really for veneering.


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## ElRay (Jul 29, 2013)

The other thing that's nice about hide glue and veneering is that you can use a hot iron to flatten-out bubbles. Another approach I've read about, but haven't tried is to lay down a thin coat of regular PVA clue on the body and the veneer, let them dry, and then use a hot iron reactivate the glue and iron-on the veneer.

There have also been folks that have gotten good results with the "Space Bag" vacuum bags -- the ones you have to actually use a vacuum cleaner on.

Ray


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## ChAoZ (Jul 29, 2013)

Here is a way that worked for me ,I used titebond to glue it on and baking paper between my clamping caul to stop it sticking to the veneer ,the venner was 2 bookmatched halves held together with tape ,hope it's ok to post a link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...444.1073741829.171858869600085&type=3&theater


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## JosephAOI (Jul 31, 2013)

What about this stuff?

Better Bond

EDIT: Bought it anyway.

And what kind of sealer and clear coat should I get? Not wal-mart brand, right?

EDIT #2: Bought everything except headstock decal and sealer/clear coat.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 1, 2013)

Here's the veneer coming my way:







Should have it by saturday! 

What do you guys think I should do about the back and sides? And RGD bevels or no?


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## JosephAOI (Aug 2, 2013)

Guys it looks SO MUCH BETTER IN PERSON.

Top time! 1 or 2?

1:





2:





They both have just as much figuring (the light makes 1 look weird) but I think I like the grain of 1 better. More even rather than really dark in the middle of 2.


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## JEngelking (Aug 2, 2013)

Agreed, grain 1 looks better to me personally. In for the updates!


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## skeels (Aug 2, 2013)

skeels likes this


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## bob123 (Aug 2, 2013)

You think it looks good now? Wait till you oil it hahaha


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm sorry, but I love the second one way more. The darker shade looks better in my honest opinion.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 2, 2013)

Wanna buy set 2 then? 

I'm definitely going with 1. Got my pups in the mail just now too


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## Jasflip (Aug 2, 2013)

I most definitely like the second one better. Nonetheless, best of luck! : D


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## JosephAOI (Aug 3, 2013)

Okay, got home from practice (Which went awesomely!) and got it apart! Just gotta sand it down and get the top glued on within the next couple days. Question though.

How do I know where to drill the holes for the bridge? Should I print a template or something?


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## bob123 (Aug 3, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> Okay, got home from practice (Which went awesomely!) and got it apart! Just gotta sand it down and get the top glued on within the next couple days. Question though.
> 
> How do I know where to drill the holes for the bridge? Should I print a template or something?




drill from the back mate lol


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## JosephAOI (Aug 3, 2013)

I should drill from the back for the bridge screws? Hmmm... Not sure on that one thar, Bob.


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## bob123 (Aug 3, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> I should drill from the back for the bridge screws? Hmmm... Not sure on that one thar, Bob.



drill from the back. Align the holes. mark the bridge holes.

You're allowed to think outside the box mate


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## JosephAOI (Aug 3, 2013)

Bob, usosmrt. Really doe, I feel dumb now 

Just need to buy a drill


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## bob123 (Aug 3, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> Bob, usosmrt. Really doe, I feel dumb now
> 
> Just need to buy a drill



with a veneer? nah, just get something that is long and stiff and poke it through.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 3, 2013)

You think? I used a pin needle to poke through the screw holes in the control cavity cover (I already veneered that, thought it was a nice touch) but when I put the screws in, the wood cracked a little at one and ripped off at the other end.


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## bob123 (Aug 3, 2013)

thick veneer! get a drill then


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## JosephAOI (Aug 3, 2013)

Ight, will do!


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## ChAoZ (Aug 5, 2013)

You should still be able to see the holes when the veneer is on or look at a photo to get an idea where they should be ,use a sharp awl to pierce the holes which will self align the holes - a quick template with the pickup hole for a reference would be useful if you are not sure you will be able to locate the holes ,how do you plan to make the edges and cavities flush ? router is best but if you don't have a drill then probably no router


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## Hollowway (Aug 5, 2013)

What are you going to do where the edge of the body is? I'd love to veneer a guitar but I worry about what the heck I'll do that the edge. Just sand it?


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## bob123 (Aug 5, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> What are you going to do where the edge of the body is? I'd love to veneer a guitar but I worry about what the heck I'll do that the edge. Just sand it?



with veneers, a lot of people simply do a "burst" type paint job.


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## guitarman1990 (Aug 5, 2013)

where did you buy the veneer from?


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## JosephAOI (Aug 5, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> What are you going to do where the edge of the body is? I'd love to veneer a guitar but I worry about what the heck I'll do that the edge. Just sand it?



I'm doing RGD bevels and staining them, back and sides. Should look fine I think.



guitarman1990 said:


> where did you buy the veneer from?



Veneersupplies.com


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## JosephAOI (Aug 8, 2013)

Progress pics! 

The most I could sand before practice:






Current progress on body front:





Current progress on body back:





Roughing the RGD bevel:





Veneering the headstock:





And the turn out?





IT'S GOOD:





EDIT: How should I do the layers for the finish? Stain/oil > Clear coat?


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## bob123 (Aug 8, 2013)

just sanding sealer and some clear is all you need.

no need to stain or oil koa


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## JosephAOI (Aug 8, 2013)

You sure? And it'll pop like this?







What about for the back and sides that I'll be staining?

Thinking (Back/sides): Stain > Sealer > Clear Coat

Top/Headstock: Oil > Sealer > Decal > Clear Coat

At least, that's what sounds right to me?


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 10, 2013)

^There's no need for oil, as Bob rightly says. In fact, there's a good possibility that oiling it first will make a mockery your clear coat. If you wanna check out roughly what it'll look like with a clear then wipe the veneer with some naphtha. That's going to show you how it'll "pop".


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## JosephAOI (Aug 10, 2013)

Alright, I'll just do sealer and clear then. For the headstock though, I put the decal on after the sealer and before the clear coat, right?

And the back/sides, I don't need anything else other than stain, sealer, and clear?

Should be finishing body sanding and putting the top on today or tomorrow!


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## bob123 (Aug 10, 2013)

When you do the veneer, make sure you do the tape method. Also, make aure you iron (with high steam) the veneer over the forearm contour.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 10, 2013)

The tape method? And how do I do the whole iron thing? Just iron that section and then clamp it?

EDIT: Sanding on the body is done. Waiting on replies before I glue the top on.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 10, 2013)

.... it, gluing half of the top now. 






Also, I think I may have moderate sinus damage from sawdust.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 12, 2013)

This is awesome.


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## bob123 (Aug 12, 2013)

when you glue the second half on, use tape to keep the seams together. If you dont, they WILL pull apart. and dont use grandmas 30 year old scotch tape. Theres stuff called "strapping tape" which works amazingly well for that. Dont use duct tape either (Too much residue and crap). Packing tape will do, or a GOOD masking tape.


For ironing, its pretty simple. use an iron on a HIGH STEAM setting, get the corner damp, and use the iron to bend it over. Other wise, if its a super dry veneer, you run the risk of it cracking out.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 12, 2013)

Will do! Now, biggest problem. How do I get enough pressure on the forearm curve since I can't clamp it?


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## bob123 (Aug 12, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> Will do! Now, biggest problem. How do I get enough pressure on the forearm curve since I can't clamp it?




its just a veneer, not a structural joint. Just something heavy. Clamps in general are risky, as both the veneer AND the basswood are super easy to collapse. 

I've seen people use bags of rice (The big ones) with weights on top to good success.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't have a big bag of rice, nor the ability to eat it all if I buy one 

I'm thinking a box of books would work if I could get it set down on it right?

EDIT: This makes me really nervous.


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## bob123 (Aug 12, 2013)

Rice is like 50 cents a pound haha. You really need something that conforma to the contour, rice is just something that came to mind lol. Go fill a pillow case with sand or something.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 12, 2013)

Too late now!


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## bob123 (Aug 12, 2013)

haha impatient... kinda like someone else I know.... 

Did you at least tape it? -.- haha


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 12, 2013)

With that whole "conforming to the contour" being paramount, I am a little doubtful that this will work out. I do hope it will, though.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 13, 2013)

I did tape it! I would take a picture of the edge so you can see that it's on the curve pretty damn well but I'm too tired.

Question though! My veneer glue says it has a curing time of 3-4 hours. If that's true, I could take the weights and clamps off now and work on it. Should I wait until over 24 hours have passed?


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## JosephAOI (Aug 13, 2013)

Just unclamped it after about 22 hours. The arm carve took perfectly! BUT, there are waves in the veneer. Not like little bubbles, like 3 whole waves, the entire length of it. I reclamped it, hoping that there's a little wet glue still in there that may get clamped together now and it was just some weird chance that it didn't take before.

Is there anything structurally bad about that though? Like, the veneer couldn't just like come off, could it? Cause if it's only aesthetically bad, I'm totally fine with it. Only noticeable when playing it and from certain angles. Still looks awesome!

Oh, and Bob. I did use masking tape. and the two halfs are PERFECTLY together


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## Randy (Aug 13, 2013)

Should be alright, structurally.

I have a "wavy" veneer my brother in law did on his old 7420 that looks like the surface of the moon and it's stayed put for the last ~5 years.


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 13, 2013)

What glue are you using? Some glues can be reactivated by ironing on top of the veneer with some cloth in between).


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## JosephAOI (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm using this stuff:
Better Bond

I'll check it tonight after I get off work. Hopefully it's okay. Regardless though, it looks sick as hell! Can't wait to get the back stained and it all sealed and clear coated!!


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## JosephAOI (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh. My. Fvcking. God. Guys.












Can I be in the running for GOTM when it's done?


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 14, 2013)

Nice clean center line! Well done, dude.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks man! Really happy with how it's turning out! Also, OT but I have always loved your avatar, Archer is probably my favorite show ever


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Aug 14, 2013)

Very nice! Keep up the good work!


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## JosephAOI (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks man! 

Alright guys, so I bought sanding sealer, stain and clear coat. The stain and sealer are liquid though so what's the best way you guys think to put it on? Just like a foam paintbrush probably?

EDIT: My sealer says stained wood doesn't need to be sealed. Does that sound right?


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## jokerpanda (Aug 16, 2013)

dude that is amazing 
hope that rg gets toasty


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## JosephAOI (Aug 16, 2013)

Staining and sealing 
















Not sorry, Bob


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## donray1527 (Aug 17, 2013)

Countdown till bob rages.... 3....2....1.....


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 17, 2013)

^Well, we won't be seeing any of that rage while he's banned (what for, BTW?)...

This came out rather nice. Are the waves still present? One thing, though- it doesn't look like you cleaned up the bevels after veneering, is this true?


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## JosephAOI (Aug 17, 2013)

No, I did. I was just lazy and didn't take a picture 

I'll be doing the clear coat on the body today and letting it dry 24 hours then it's assembly time!

Any requested pics by the way?

EDIT: Started clear coating. When I put the body onto the coat hangar I was using, it fell off and chipped the lower horn bad.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Aug 17, 2013)

JosephAOI said:


> No, I did. I was just lazy and didn't take a picture
> 
> I'll be doing the clear coat on the body today and letting it dry 24 hours then it's assembly time!
> 
> ...


 
Is the wood really chipped or is it a ding without chipping? The latter is easy to fix, I'm about to post how in my own project topic


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## JosephAOI (Aug 21, 2013)

A chunk of wood came off, so yeah, a chip 

Oh well though. Cause:











Going to my tech tomorrow for a fret dress, wiring, nut install!


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 21, 2013)

Ver' nais, I like.


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## GizmoJunior (Aug 21, 2013)

Looks great man and I bet it looks even better in person.


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## jarnozz (Aug 21, 2013)

great! looks amazing dude


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## JEngelking (Aug 21, 2013)

That turned out awesome.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Aug 21, 2013)

Looks good, well done!


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## donray1527 (Aug 21, 2013)

And boom goes the dynamite.


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## skeels (Aug 21, 2013)

Love to see a refin on 7321s.

skeels likes this. 

skeels likes this very much.


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## Suitable (Aug 21, 2013)

Nice job!  Theres so much wood porn happening on this site, its greaaat!!! Clean execution!


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## BouhZik (Aug 22, 2013)

Great job! Looks really good. I have a 7321, and now I want to do the same lol


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 22, 2013)

Arg! Let's see some detail shots! From an actual camera!


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## donray1527 (Aug 23, 2013)

Joe whenever we have band practice again (damn college) I'll bring my Nikon.


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## JosephAOI (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds good, dude! I have my ex's camera still but no batteries and I don't have a car 

Nonetheless, the guitar is done as of today! NGD should hopefully be up in the next day or two!


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## JosephAOI (Aug 24, 2013)

NGD up!

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/247331-ngd-ibanez-koa.html


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