# Formula One thread



## TheDuatAwaits

Any F1 fans on here? I searched and found a thread from 2008 about it, wasn't going to necrobump it. I've only been watching for about 2 years, I like to watch races on Youtube from the 90's. I can catch the first half of the season up until Hungary, after that I have to read about it. From what I've read, Sebastian Vettel has been phenomenal the past 4 races, I wonder if he'll get a 3rd straight world championship? Too early to tell?

What are your guys' thoughts?


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## Thyber

I think he might end 2nd with a minimal point difference with Alonso. 

I find it funny that Schumacher thought he could keep up with the top 3... 

Hey he's still better than all those Toro Rosso's ... but seriously... stop at your peak.


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## F1Filter

levijaymz said:


> Any F1 fans on here?



Possibly. 



> I like to watch races on Youtube from the 90's.



Some would argue that early 90's Formula 1 (pre-Imola '94) as good as it will ever be from a pure racing perspective. There were some seriously sexy beasts on the starting grid back then.



> I can catch the first half of the season up until Hungary, after that I have to read about it.



If you're a F1 fan on the internet. There's PLENTY of ways to catch the races live. Look around, you'll be able to find the UK feed pretty easily. It's infinitely better than anything SPEED offers here in the US.



> From what I've read, Sebastian Vettel has been phenomenal the past 4 races, I wonder if he'll get a 3rd straight world championship? Too early to tell?



Drivers Championship might go all the way down to the final round. Depends on whether or not Alonso can keep Vettel behind this weekend. 

Constructors Championship is all but over after this Sunday. Had Massa done better during the first half of the season, Ferrari would have possibly had a chance to take this to the final race of the season. But it's pretty much a done deal that Red Bull wins the Constructors this year.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr-

Vettel has been perfect this season, but the car has been so good again this season that he has just driven from the front into the distance.

My favourite race this season was Montreal, Canada. *NO SPOILERS* *Definitely one to watch!*

Red Bull lost their technical advantage from last season which was the blown diffuser, however, Adrian Newey and his team in the UK have continued to provide a dominating car.

I think there has been an announcement about a new formula for next year, with smaller engines. Perhaps it will change things although the development costs will hit the small teams hardest.

As much as I dislike the insidious financial aspect of F1, I can't seem to enjoy any other formula half as much. 



What are your thoughts on Ayerton Senna?


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## scherzo1928

Been following the F1 since... well, since I can remember for 2 reasons. I love cars, and I'm always up early, so it gives me something to watch sunday mornings


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## Ayo7e

C'mon, how can vettel be so lucky?. Incredible.


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## TRENCHLORD

Not much of a race fan here, but formula one beats the hell out of a continuous left circle. Any road course beats nascar IMO.


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## Leuchty

Abu was certainly an interesting race.

Well done Kimi!


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## F1Filter

Well that was a boring race. 

Glad the final rounds of this season are actually going to mean something.


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## 777timesgod

Saw an article that the F! female driver of Marussia has recovered. Here is what happened back then. She wears a wicked eye patch now.

BBC News - F1 Marussia driver Maria de Villota in Duxford crash


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## TheDuatAwaits

Somewhat old bump.. 

Melbourne GP starts in an hour.

and Vettel is on pole.... Again.


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## Bodes

Actually, Melbourne GP starts in just under 4 hours time.

What a shit day yesterday. Bright, sunny lunch and bugger all on track time due to the rain.

I was soaked through by the time they announced no more qualifying.

Made me a bit miserable at last night's Ensiferum concert! (probably a nit damp smelling too!)

Hopefully Grosjean can burst through the pack and take out Hamilton and Vettel!


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## TheDuatAwaits

Bodes said:


> Actually, Melbourne GP starts in just under 4 hours time.
> 
> What a shit day yesterday. Bright, sunny lunch and bugger all on track time due to the rain.
> 
> I was soaked through by the time they announced no more qualifying.
> 
> Made me a bit miserable at last night's Ensiferum concert! (probably a nit damp smelling too!)
> 
> Hopefully Grosjean can burst through the pack and take out Hamilton and Vettel!



Really? I thought it was 4 hours too, but my cable company says an hour.  

Yeah, I'd like to see Vettel get wrecked too, much better than him winning all the time.


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## thesnowdog

There's a countdown to race start here: Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website


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## Bodes

Even after Red Bull Racing made a fix for Webber's shitty starts, he still can't get off the line.

Fantastic to see Raikkonen win. He certainly deserves all the good that comes his way.


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## indrangelion

Any thoughts on the Vettel/Webber debacle earlier?

Personally, I think Vettel was being an ass. Stealing an easy victory after the team asked the guys to take it easy for the home stretch.


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## thesnowdog

Webber should've shown Vettel that there's several reasons not to act like that and if the more sophisticated of them escape him then there's always the knowledge that the bigger bloke will kick your arse.

But Mark is too 'nice' for such brutish displays.


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## Bodes

Vettel was a moron. Mark has stayed behind Vettel on a few occasions for the "best outcome for the team".

They were both told to turn down their engine output to conserve their engines, then both should have done it.


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## Leuchty

Vettel certainly is a great driver, but now the world will see him as a CHILDISH racer.

Congrats Mark! Well done.


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## TheDuatAwaits

I didn't even see what happened, the race starts really late here in america.


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## will_shred

Can anyone offer thoughts on the 2014 rule changes? or the prospect of Kimi getting on board with Red Bull?

I've only been watching for about 3 months, I've still got so much to learn. however the more I learn about the sport the more fascinated I become with it. 

Kimi is probably my favorite driver, however I feel like if he went over to RB it wouldn't even be fair. I mean... a Kimi+Vettel Red Bull team? That would be freaking unstoppable IMHO.


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## F1Filter

Kimi wont be going to Red Bull unless he gets paid absurd amounts of money.

Have to face the facts. Red Bull will always be Vettel's team until he either leaves or retires. Surely no one is naive enough to believe that both drivers are getting equal treatment on that team? I can only wait until Webber is fully out of Formula One when the real "truth" about the intra-team dynamics comes out. 

If you're new to the sport or arent in the know about it's history. Have a look at what's happened with a team that's had two primary drivers (IE: Prost/Senna, Villeneuve/Pironi, etc.), it very rarely, if ever, ends well.

Re: 2014 rules. While I thought the last "turbo era" back in the 80's produced some very exciting outcomes. The problem this time around is that there's actual usage restrictions on equipment. So, not really sure if things are going to be as exciting.

EDIT: Mark Webber on Top Gear UK for those who havent seen it yet. You can tell he's really trying hard not to say anything badly about Vettel. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0sE_MLNG1s


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## 777timesgod

No need to wait until Webber retires, he already said once about himself : "Not bad for a No2 driver" when he got the pole position or the win in a race.


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## texshred777

I'm a new fan of F1. 

I don't know much of anything about the drivers(apart from what I see on Top Gear when they're guests), teams, or any of that. At this point I'm still trying to learn the rules and finer points of the sport. 

Hopefully I can make it to the US Grand Prix coming up here soon.


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## StevenC

I know this isn't a very active thread, but did anyone watch the race today? Rosberg crashed into Hamilton, on purpose it would seem:

BBC Sport - Nico Rosberg hit me on purpose, claims Lewis Hamilton


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## StevenC

New 2015 Cars!

Force India VJM08 (but not the final car):







Williams FW37:






Lotus E23:






The McLaren-Honda MP4-30 launches on Thursday. Ferrari's SF15-T will launch on Friday. Torro Rosso's STR10 to launch on Saturday. Mercedes launch the W06 on Sunday. RB11 and Sauber C34 presumably will launch on Sunday, as well, while the actual VJM08 will wait until February 19th.


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## F1Filter

I cant believe pre-season testing is already starting next week!


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## Rashputin

The front wing on that Force India car looks complicated! I think it's surprising how each car varies so much from year to year. You'd think once they had cracked the "aerodynamic code" that all cars would look quite similar.

Anyway, I'm a huge F1 fan. Ive been watching since the late nineties nineties and been to races. I miss the screaming V10s, refueling strategies and no DRS/ERS. Pushing a button to pass a driver who cant push the same button just isnt racing to me. They need to bring the '04/'05 regulations back. They won't though..but they should. Experiencing the awesome sound of the screaming 1000hp 20.000rpm V10s racing by at 350kmt is one of the most amazing things Ive witnessed. The ground shook for miles.


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## F1Filter

IMHO part of the problem right now, is that the FIA just got the engine formula wrong. Way too conservative on the fuel flow restrictions. None of the engines were anywhere near their RPM limits this past season. 

Because until a new turbo engine like this






Can put out an exhaust like this






They're going to continue to draw the ire of the fans and promoters. Turbos are supposed to be loud, obnoxious fire-breathing 980+BHP monsters. Not something that sounds like an Oreck cleaner.


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## StevenC

Rashputin said:


> The front wing on that Force India car looks complicated! I think it's surprising how each car varies so much from year to year. You'd think once they had cracked the "aerodynamic code" that all cars would look quite similar.
> 
> Anyway, I'm a huge F1 fan. Ive been watching since the late nineties nineties and been to races. I miss the screaming V10s, refueling strategies and no DRS/ERS. Pushing a button to pass a driver who cant push the same button just isnt racing to me. They need to bring the '04/'05 regulations back. They won't though..but they should. Experiencing the awesome sound of the screaming 1000hp 20.000rpm V10s racing by at 350kmt is one of the most amazing things Ive witnessed. The ground shook for miles.



I did not notice how complicated that front wing was! Might just be for show, considering it's not the final car. Or an extra high downforce configuration...

I believe there is an IP issue with aerodynamics. It was discussed a lot when McLaren introduced their new front wing designed by a former Red Bull employee, where the wings were essentially identical.

I have to disagree with you. While I get part of "the pinnacle of motorsport" should be making the fastest cars possible, that can be pretty wasteful. Just based on the louder cars back then, that's literally wasted energy. Refuelling is a bit too explosive for me, personally.

On speed, look at Interlagos this year. Rosberg's Q3 time was 0.2 seconds off the lap record in the F2004. If Massa had have been in the W05, he might have beaten it. And we we're seeing faster times than last year by the end of the season, with less fuel. Mercedes, for example, have found at least an extra 50bhp for next season. They're getting faster.

On DRS/ERS/KERS; KERS didn't do that, because everyone had the same amount on every lap and could deploy it when they felt like it. ERS now just goes through the throttle, like a normal hybrid, and there's no button for it. DRS, you have a point, but you have to be within 1 second on certain parts of the track and even then it's not guaranteed. I think I can forgive it in a sport that's infamous for it's lack of overtaking (not that you'd know watching 2014). And I just can't call opening a flap to reduce drag "push to pass" when IndyCar has an "overtake" button that gives 100bhp.


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## StevenC

Also, contrary to the prevailing opinion, I don't find the 20,000rpm sound that appealing in a car. And if the Audi R18's diesel can rev to 6,000rpm and get to 200mph on diesel, I don't see much point in 20,000rpm petrol engines.

The noise is a by product of primitive engine design, to me.


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## Rashputin

StevenC said:


> Also, contrary to the prevailing opinion, I don't find the 20,000rpm sound that appealing in a car. And if the Audi R18's diesel can rev to 6,000rpm and get to 200mph on diesel, I don't see much point in 20,000rpm petrol engines.
> 
> The noise is a by product of primitive engine design, to me.



We'll have to agree to disagree on most of this Steven : )


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## StevenC

Sauber will launch their car on Friday.


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## StevenC

McLaren to test 2015 car with black livery - report | News | Motorsport.com

Ugh... Come on, Mclaren, I mean Ron!


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## StevenC

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/01/29/first-picturesnd-video-mclaren-mp4-30-revealed/

I guess all the good liveries were taken.


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## StevenC

W06, apparently:











Though, I don't know how they got these pictures already...


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## eaeolian

That Lotus is *such* a 'shop. I wonder if the actual car is done yet, given last year's cock-up.


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## StevenC

Ferrari SF15-T:






Sauber C34:






I like the blue, the nose is terrible and they seem to be down on sponsors.


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## setsuna7

I agree with Rash, I've been following F1since I was a kid,the early nineties, the 04/05 was the best season, the rule changes was basically FIA attemp to reduce the Ferraris' monopoly, which should be the other way round. The other teams has to catch up with winning team. Whats the point of racing if you are to be shackled once you're winning. I get that it's for the best interest of the sport, but they are suppressing progress, just like now, V6?? You gotta be kidding me? Ayrton must be squirming in his grave right now. Of all the rule changes that I like is the new Qualifying format. Other that than are shite. Those pit stops and fuel strategy are what made is awesome, remember when Kimi was on fire in Singapore? How ice cool he was? I miss those hectic haywire pitstop. BTW, the noses on the Ferarri and Sauber looked like dildos..


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## eaeolian

I guess I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed the late '70s-early '80s era of pit-stop-less F1 better. Not having fuel stops has made it better, but the real sadness is that there are only 2-3 competitive teams a year. 

Of course, everything was a lot rawer back then...


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## F1Filter

eaeolian said:


> I guess I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed the late '70s-early '80s era of pit-stop-less F1 better. Not having fuel stops has made it better, but the real sadness is that there are only 2-3 competitive teams a year.
> 
> Of course, everything was a lot rawer back then...



If you were able to secure a Ford Cosworth deal. You had a very good chance of scoring points, or even getting a podium finish. Because back then, it was all about the chassis. The Cosworth engine was the great equalizer for the privateers. That is, until the turbo engines and ground effects appeared...

But besides the early 90's, which I still think are some of the most gorgeous F1 cars ever. I'll have to agree. Late 70's-Early 80's: Some great racing, lots of parity amongst the constructors, even the "Garagistas" had a chance of winning. Of course, the sport back then was also a bloodbath. Lots of gruesome leg injuries once the ground effects cars came into play (which moved drivers position on top of the front axle). And that's also the era where we lost both Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villeneuve. 

Yet it sometimes seems that the inherent respect amongst drivers back then, because of the risks involved, just doesnt exist within the grid today. I'd think a driver like Pastor Maldonado wouldn't have his superlicense for very long back then. Or would probably even be alive after a season or two. 

BTW, that Sauber C34's livery absolutely reeks of Felipe Nasr's sponsorship money he's bringing in. It's really sad to see Sauber in their current state. They deserve better, IMHO. I really hope they're going to be able to score some points this season.


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## StevenC

I, personally, think the real sadness is less the lack of competitive teams, and more the lack of teams. Plus, this year, we could have Force India really competing and hopefully McLaren and Lotus will get back up there. 11 cars fighting for the win wouldn't be bad, and we'd also have Ferrari hanging around pretending to be fast. That'd just leave Sauber and Toro Rosso fighting for the last few places with Maldonado.


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## StevenC

STR10:


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## StevenC

Newey must have something clever up his sleeve.


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## Dooky

setsuna7 said:


> I agree with Rash, I've been following F1since I was a kid,the early nineties, the 04/05 was the best season, the rule changes was basically FIA attemp to reduce the Ferraris' monopoly, which should be the other way round. The other teams has to catch up with winning team. Whats the point of racing if you are to be shackled once you're winning. I get that it's for the best interest of the sport, but they are suppressing progress, just like now, V6?? You gotta be kidding me? Ayrton must be squirming in his grave right now. Of all the rule changes that I like is the new Qualifying format. Other that than are shite. Those pit stops and fuel strategy are what made is awesome, remember when Kimi was on fire in Singapore? How ice cool he was? I miss those hectic haywire pitstop. BTW, the noses on the Ferarri and Sauber looked like dildos..



Ayrton won his first championship with a V6 Turbo.


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## Kobalt

setsuna7 said:


> The other teams has to catch up with winning team. Whats the point of racing if you are to be shackled once you're winning. I get that it's for the best interest of the sport, but they are suppressing progress [...]


That's because in modern F1, talent is out of the window, unless it's spent in R&D, along with a huge pile of money. The drivers are second. They modified the rules, as to prevent teams with virtually unlimited funds like Red Bull or Ferrari to monopolize their spot at the top of the championship.....yet they still manage to stay up there. The "handicap", per say, is the more points they earn, the bigger the entry fee gets for them.

What is the point for smaller teams to even attempt competing in F1 if Red Bull spends 196 million Euros comparatively to Caterham who spends 42 million Euros? The problem is getting so out of hand that we keep losing teams and thus cars on the track. In three years, we lost six cars.

Not sure what you mean by progress, unless you mean another Michael Schumacher era is what you can call progress....it was about time for Vettel to get off the throne after four championships... 



Dooky said:


> Ayrton won his first championship with a V6 Turbo.


With about 400 additional horsepower, an h-gated gearbox with clutch, and very little downforce.


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## StevenC

Ricciardo tops Hamilton on Top Gear. I can't wait to see Daniel with a good engine...


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## 777timesgod

Why did Ferrari announce their F1 car. They would make more of an impact with an ice cream van, judging by last year's standards of course. Come on, put some effort this year!


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## F1Filter

And Alonso's out of the season opener. 

F1: McLaren's Fernando Alonso pulls out of Australian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com


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## StevenC

I hope K-Mags can have a repeat of his Australian performance last year.


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## Kobalt

Less than 10 days to go!!!!

Goooooo Sauber!


Also, that VJM08 is infinitely sexy.


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## StevenC

Tyre choices for first 4 races: 

Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website - Headlines - Pirelli reveal tyre choices for first four races

Australia - soft, medium
Malaysia - hard, medium
China - soft, medium
Bahrain - soft, medium


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## Chonker

VJM08 is the last car I worked on when I was in F1, I really hope the guys at FIF1 do well this year.


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## Kobalt

Chonker said:


> VJM08 is the last car I worked on when I was in F1, I really hope the guys at FIF1 do well this year.


You worked at SFI or you worked on their car as part of some other association? FIA?


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## Chonker

I worked for SFI, it was a good place to work with some great people. They really deserve success and I hope they get it (although the slow start to this season is probably going to hurt).


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## F1Filter

P1/P2 sessions already start today? Where did he winter season testing go? Seems like the off-season is getting shorter and shorter. 

Anyway. Here's hoping to a close, exciting, and most importantly, safe season. 


Reminder to anyone in the US. All practice sessions are on NBCSN Live Extra. Or find "alternate" ways to get the Sky Sports feed. Your choice.


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## StevenC

F1Filter said:


> P1/P2 sessions already start today? Where did he winter season testing go? Seems like the off-season is getting shorter and shorter.
> 
> Anyway. Here's hoping to a close, exciting, and most importantly, safe season.
> 
> 
> Reminder to anyone in the US. All practice sessions are on NBCSN Live Extra. Or find "alternate" ways to get the Sky Sports feed. Your choice.



I guess with the time change, FP1 and 2 will be today for you guys, haha.


I'm actually going to be in America during Malaysia, does anyone know what channel it's showing on?


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## eaeolian

StevenC said:


> I guess with the time change, FP1 and 2 will be today for you guys, haha.
> 
> 
> I'm actually going to be in America during Malaysia, does anyone know what channel it's showing on?



NBCSN. Hopefully the provider where you are has it.


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## StevenC

The Manor car, at last!











The McLaren car really should have looked more like this.


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## F1Filter

Anyone check out the new Formula1.com site? $27 USD for timing&scoring with some telemetry? 

Subscribe to F1 Access


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## F1Filter

Also. If there was any doubt as to Formula 1 feeling the pinch.

Ecclestone Courts Murdoch Pay TV as F1 Audiences Tumble - Bloomberg Business


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## StevenC

We're off!

In a response to both of your posts, my friend lets me borrow his Sky Go account when we aren't watching a race together and it's not on BBC. FPs and Qualis mostly. So Sky lets you get all the timing in their app. Secondly, we never watch Sky when it's on BBC, and we often tune into BBC later on for the better commentary from Coulthard and Jordan.

Bernie needs to give the reigns to someone who cares about the sport and the audience, and ideally, someone who understands anything about the internet.


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## F1Filter

McLaren/Honda


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## StevenC

Bottas could be out after injuring his back in Q2. Susie Wolff is their reserve driver, so she could get the start.

Manor won't run this weekend after not participating in Practice or Quali.


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## Kobalt

That Toro Rosso seems pretty fast, Junior starting from 8th for his debut, pretty cool.

WTF1 said, statistically, if McLaren were to finish the race tomorrow, they would do so....four laps behind. OUCH!


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## StevenC

I don't understand how Honda got it so wrong. Those are slow times by last year's standards. Now please post your favourite McLaren Honda jokes below:

McLaren Honda lock out in Melbourne. They forgot to account for Australia being upside down.


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## F1Filter

Soooo. Both Saubers finish in the points. 

Considering how their season went last year, all the off-track nonsense that led up to the GP this weekend with them. Well deserved.


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## F1Filter

Now that RBR has no chance of winning with their current Renault engine. Horner wants the FIA to turn Formula 1 into IndyCar for the good of the show. 

Red Bull urges FIA to act on Mercedes domination | F1 news | Motorsport.com


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## Kobalt

F1Filter said:


> Now that RBR has no chance of winning with their current Renault engine. Horner wants the FIA to turn Formula 1 into IndyCar for the good of the show.
> 
> Red Bull urges FIA to act on Mercedes domination | F1 news | Motorsport.com


It's funny how things work, right? You didn't see them complaining when they were the ones completely dominating for four years in a row - none of the others around them as well, they were leading fair and square. Now they are the ones losing and suddenly it isn't fair?


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## StevenC

I'd like to feel bad for RBR for having such a terrible engine, when they've got such good drivers and probably a great chassis, but Horner has been such a cry baby lately. At least last year he was laughing it off about Merc's dominance and making the most of it, but all winter it's been one thing after the other between trying to go back to V8s, or change the aero and engine formula, or ban wind tunnels.


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## F1Filter

Red Bull could quit Formula 1 over current rules - Helmut Marko - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Alright, cya 

It's one thing for a team with a long history like Ferrari to make threats. But RBR??? Plz. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


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## shadscbr

I agree, of all people to be crying. I think Adrian Newey's exhaust diffuser gave Horner a false sense of entitlement. Now that advantage is gone, and he wants to quit 

Shad


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## Kobalt

shadscbr said:


> I agree, of all people to be crying. I think Adrian Newey's exhaust diffuser gave Horner a false sense of entitlement. Now that advantage is gone, and he wants to quit
> 
> Shad


RIGHT?!

It's much harder to work your way up than to be on top... Boo hoo.


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## F1Filter

And Bernie agrees with Horner. 

Ecclestone: Red Bull right on equalisation calls | F1 news | Motorsport.com

In NASCAR, there's a saying: "Move the endzones when someone is stinking up the show". Which is exactly what Bernie wants to do here. Again, we already have performance equalization in IndyCar. Not needed in Formula 1 (IMHO).


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## StevenC

F1Filter said:


> In NASCAR, there's a saying: "Move the endzones when someone is stinking up the show".



So what you're saying is we should start the Red Bulls two laps down now that Horner is having a hissy fit?

I saw a tweet along the lines of not complaining about your engine in "Motor Racing".


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## F1Filter

StevenC said:


> So what you're saying is we should start the Red Bulls two laps down now that Horner is having a hissy fit?
> 
> I saw a tweet along the lines of not complaining about your engine in "Motor Racing".



In the NASCAR analogy, the entire grid would start 2 laps ahead of Mercedes.


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## StevenC

F1Filter said:


> In the NASCAR analogy, the entire grid would start 2 laps ahead of Mercedes.



Ferrari and Williams aren't the ones whining!


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## F1Filter

StevenC said:


> Ferrari and Williams aren't the ones whining!



This has nothing to do with whining. Its got to do with a team that's "ruining the show".

Try this. In BTCC or WTCC, what happens to the car when you start winning? NASCAR saying means the exact same thing. 

BTW, I'm glad both McLaren and Ferrari are being so sporting about this. It'd be nice if everyone followed their lead. Everyone's job for this season is now to find a way to catch up to the Mercs. Not try to politic their way back up onto the podium.


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## eaeolian

...and this is new to F1 how, exactly? It's always about politics.


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## StevenC

F1Filter said:


> This has nothing to do with whining. Its got to do with a team that's "ruining the show".
> 
> Try this. In BTCC or WTCC, what happens to the car when you start winning? NASCAR saying means the exact same thing.
> 
> BTW, I'm glad both McLaren and Ferrari are being so sporting about this. It'd be nice if everyone followed their lead. Everyone's job for this season is now to find a way to catch up to the Mercs. Not try to politic their way back up onto the podium.




Oh yeah, I know, I just mean to joke that Horner's complaining is stinking up the show more than Mercedes...

Anyway, yeah, Ferrari seem to be taking it well because this Arrivabene guy seems to be understanding of the work Ferrari are doing and want to help things get better, and McLaren only have Honda to be angry about.

I think I might even be starting to like Ferrari over Arrivabene, plus humble Vettel.


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## F1Filter

Seems safe enough


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## StevenC

Can't wait to see what Maldonado can do with that!

I can't remember if it was qualifying or free practice that he crashed in on turn 11 at Spa last year, but the commentary was great with Coulthard plainly not understanding how he was able to crash like that.


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## F1Filter

I can only assume this was done to increase the chance of a spectacular crash in front of the paid seating areas. Because anyone who's seen the usual incidents there; already knows that the car is usually sideways or heading backwards into the barrier. All this is going to do is launch someone right into the debris fencing.

EDIT: Just wanted to post some evidence as to what I'm implying. Cars are already light when cresting over the hill at that area. It doesnt take much for one to get airbourne.


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## eaeolian

StevenC said:


> Can't wait to see what Maldonado can do with that!
> 
> I can't remember if it was qualifying or free practice that he crashed in on turn 11 at Spa last year, but the commentary was great with Coulthard plainly not understanding how he was able to crash like that.



I'm fairly certain that's what Lotus pays Maldonado to do. It's not like he finishes races, but the sponsors get seen 1000 times during the replays.


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## F1Filter

Christian Horner: Red Bull never dominated F1 as much as Mercedes - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com 



> Asked if he appreciated the irony of a once-dominant team demanding equivalency, Horner replied: "I can understand, *but when we were performing we never had the level of dominance that we are seeing, nowhere near."*


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## StevenC

Red Bull's best season was 13 wins in 2013, and 4 non RB drivers won races for 3 different teams. Mercedes had 16 last season with 1 non Mercedes driver winning the other races. Mercedes were more dominant last year than Red Bull were at their peak.

Over the 4 years RB won championships, they won 42 of 77 races, and in 2012 McLaren arguably had the better car. Whereas so far, Mercedes have won 17 of 20 races.

The percentage of 1-2 finishes favours Mercedes, and Mercedes have only finished outside of the top 2 once in 20 races, compared to 25 in 77 for Red Bull.


In 2013 they were nearly as dominant as Mercedes, but what Horner says is mostly true.


----------



## StevenC

Pascal Wehrlein said to be the back up to Bottas if he can't race in Malaysia.


----------



## Kobalt

One of my favorite venues, also one of the hardest to watch live.

Qualifying - Saturday, 5am EST.
Race - Sunday, 3am EST.

Got the energy drinks ready in the fridge.


----------



## StevenC

That was a hell of a race! Shame Mercedes got the strategy so wrong.


----------



## StevenC

Not a bad race today, but not as exciting as Malaysia. Disappointed Williams couldn't get in there with Ferrari, but some the other fights were great; Daniel and Daniil, Button and Maldonado, Max and whoever got in front of him. Real shame about Sainz's spin at the start and then all the Renault failures, I guess they needed RB to catch TR a bit.

On the point of Lewis backing Rosberg towards Vettel; if Ros thought Lewis was too slow, he could have overtaken him... or not.


----------



## Kobalt

Rosberg is such a sore loser... 

Also, Renault is FINALLY living up to its true heritage of French engineering.


----------



## StevenC

I booked my tickets for Silverstone today! Anyone else going to a GP this year?


----------



## StevenC

Another good race race this weekend! Ferrari did a great job with Kimi. As much as I like to see Rosberg not do well, it's a shame his brakes failed at the end. He was actually driving better than usual.


----------



## StevenC

New McLaren livery.


----------



## StevenC

Yesterday's race was a bit boring. Shame Hamilton couldn't get past Vettel on the undercut because of the wheel nut.


----------



## Kobalt

I've always found Catalunya to be a boring track, in essence, and needless to say the race was a bit uneventful.

It's a shame Sauber and Force India were a bit down on performance, in Barcelona. Hoping Monaco will be more competitive grounds for them.


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, Catalunya is great to drive around, but awful to watch. I'm more excited for Montreal; that's where Ferrari and Mercedes are bringing their engine upgrades.


----------



## Kobalt

MONACO, BABY!!!!


----------



## StevenC

That was a really stupid call from Mercedes.


----------



## shadscbr

I think it was an inside job to get the stat. The safety car was absolutely flying on that lap

Shad


----------



## StevenC

My guess is that Nico, as chair of the Sons of F1 Drivers in F1 Secret Society, called on junior member Max to crash and cause a safety car to bunch up the leaders, in an attempt to overtake. Merc calling a pit stop was just a coincidence that played into his hands. Nico had a pretty good view of Singapore 2008, after all.


----------



## shadscbr

I bet Hamilton was beyond anger


----------



## StevenC

What a race!

I was sitting at Woodcote, and had a great view up the Wellington Straight, and could see the whole Brooklands/Luffield/Woodcote complex and along the National Pit Straight. A lot of action from where we were. Great to see Williams in front again, even if they didn't have the ultimate pace on the Mercs, let alone any pace in the wet. Good to see Hulkenberg keeping up his post Le Mans form.

Definitely going back next year.

EDIT: Though, a much bigger tent is necessary. My friend and I went in a small two-person tent and next year I think we'll be going for something more serious.


----------



## StevenC

F1Filter said:


> Seems safe enough



The FIA has now removed these kerbs after complaints from drivers:



In other news, I've tickets booked for the USGP. Sitting at Turn 5.


----------



## Kobalt

FINALLY some excitement!

Love the Singapore GP. One of my favorites along with Hungary and Malaysia.


----------



## StevenC

First race of 2016 in a few hours. Lewis on pole with a time faster than 2004, and the new quali format is a failure, reverting to the old one in Bahrain.


----------



## Kobalt

It looked interesting on paper, but in reality it was no better than the old format.


----------



## StevenC

The race turned out spectacular, though. Maybe this year's tyre rules will provide the right amount of strategic variation.


----------



## SD83

There seem to be not that many fans here, but did anyone watch the race today? I didn't see many in the last years, and this one was the first this year, and the winner aside, I found it very exciting to watch. Tons of overtaking, a few minor accidents and unless they lead from the start, Mercedes seems not nearly as dominant as they were last year. Hamilton was overtaken by a Redbull mid-race, and Raikonnen even passed him on the straight, same tires, both with activated DRS... I hope the next races will be equally entertaining.
And if those races are equally entertaining, I wonder what all the changes in rules for next year are good for... it might probably be a dumb idea, but seeing that almost all of the races I watched over the last years got progressively less entertaining towards the end, I began to wonder how things would look if they adopted a system I've seen in german touring car masters, where they have two races of 40 and 60 minutes each?


----------



## StevenC

I watched today's race. All of the races this year have been that exciting. It's been great!

As for Merc, Lewis's car floor was damaged, Daniel was on much fresher tyres and Kimi was on a faster compound. Not to mention when Daniel and Kimi came up behind him, Lewis started driving terribly.

I think what's really made F1 exciting this year is the new tyre rules, having 3 compounds. Not sure if that really explains this race considering everyone was doing their best to be on the only viable race tyre, the soft. They don't need to change the regulations for next year. They're trying to add more downforce, to make overtaking more difficult, and they haven't given Pirelli any information as to what tyres they want made, or an official contract for next year's tyres.

If they add an extra race each weekend, we'd just have two races where no one can overtake and ruin it for the statisticians among us.


----------



## SD83

Weren't Kimi & Lewis both on medium and Daniel on soft? Anyways, both had fresher tyres, you're right about that, and I didn't consider the floor damage. Still, last season at least the Red Bull would have had trouble overtaking even if Lewis would have been completly drunk. I was suprised to see a fair number of drivers going for medium, Hamilton, Raikonnen, Button... 
You might be right about the extra race. I was just dreaming about having the exciting first half of each race, twice  I also thought the new ideas for the qualifying sounded interesting, and the result was rubbish.


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, Kimi was on the soft and Daniel was on the medium. I checked lap charts for overtakes and pit stops. Not to mention both of those cars are kinder on tyres than the Mercedes. James Allison's calling card.

Hopefully Lewis will get his act together for Russia. Maybe make a competition out of this championship.

In other news, the teams are trying to get rid of Bernie, and Bernie is trying to cancel their contracts, taking away their money and power.

Hersteller vs. Bernie Ecclestone: Muss der F1-Boss abtreten? - Auto Motor und Sport


----------



## StevenC

I'm thoroughly of the opinion that Red Bull fixed that race for Max. Daniel was leading and they changed him to a suboptimal strategy.


----------



## Dayviewer

Well then, as a Dutch guy I decided to give today's race a try because of all the hype for Max in the last few days 
You couldn't evade news about him in NL lately, it's insane  , and so I was pleasantly surprised 
BUT! Not just because of his victory;

As a kid I was a HUGE F1 fan, never could stop talking about it, I followed every race from around '96 untill '04-ish, knew all the tracks, drivers, statistics etc, it was nuts haha.
Then however I started to watch less and less, it didn't feel exciting anymore, everything felt very predictable.

And I still have the feeling that's the case, every year I read that the season is again dominated by 1 or 2 drivers, creating predictable results in my eyes (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Today's race however, even if Max was magically replaced by another driver, was sensational.
Having Hamilton and Rosberg go out in those first few turns, proceeded by the battle for the podium between Red Bull and Ferrari was fantastic.
Not to mention the battle for 1st in the last 20 or so laps!

It was some edge of your seat stuff, and yea of course, finally hearing the Dutch national anthem at the end, by an 18 year old no less, was amazing for us Dutchies too 

I'm really interested in watching the next races now as well.
But on the other hand I'm afraid that when Mercedes is back for the whole race, then everything will get back to the ''boring normal''

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'd love to actually, because I followed this sport with huge passion all those years back, and I'd love to get back into it again


----------



## SD83

I nearly fell of the couch laughing when Rosberg and Hamilton crashed, literally. Don't mean them harm, but as for suspense, that was probably the best thing that could have happened to the race. 
As for the strategy: I'm not sure right now, but didn't Verstappen and Raikonnen do a good deal more laps on their last set of medium tires? If Vettel & Riccardo woul not hav been so busy fighting each other, they might have caught up with them, they were catching up until some point, and with DRS & better tires, that might have been even more entertaining. Too bad Ricciardos tire blew... 
And, there I agree, with Mercedes back in the race (Monaco might be a different story), we'll probably see an entertaining battle for 1 and 2 and another one for 3 to 6 which could as well be taking place on different track...


----------



## StevenC

This race has sort of been how all the races have been this year, except with a Mercedes in front of the whole thing. Monaco, as ever, will just be a procession with the only interest being when someone crashes.


----------



## StevenC

2016 has been a very entertaining season. So much so that the Monaco Grand Prix was actually fantastic.


----------



## StevenC

That was an interesting race finish.

Not a good weekend in sports for Italy.


----------



## rgk7

Summer break is over...
But I´m in the US for the next 4 weeks. Sadly I might miss some races...but on the other side it´s propably just a one men show


----------



## StevenC

That was a great race!


----------



## TheTrooper

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!
There's a F1 Thread on SS.org? 
 


No really, the race in Belgium was amazing, hope the next one will be full of action too.


----------



## StevenC

Jenson and Felipe retiring this season, Lewis gets pole by half a second?

It's not even race day and so much has happened at the Italian GP!


----------



## TheTrooper

Well, JB is not retiring completely, at least that's what he said.
I'm pretty sure he's gonna do like Hakkinen ("I'll take a sabbatical") and retire for real.

Pretty boring race the Monza GP......but it's always been that way, most of times.

Looking forward the Singapore GP, which is my favourite.


----------



## StevenC

Yes, it's very Hakkinen like, isn't it? Same team, getting out of the way of fresh talent.

Yeah, Monza was boring. I thought for a moment we were going to get a chasedown from Hamilton like in 2014, but it wasn't to be.

Singapore's a great track. Very fun to drive and race around. Hopefully Mercedes get on top of their tyre issues, but not too much, so we can have a 6 way battle for the win. And then there's the subway messing with the hybrid electronics.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah, and I bet Reb Bull will be pretty damn strong at Singapore, they have the best chassis of the pack (although the engine is "meh")

Hope Kimi and Seb can do what they did the last season, because I'm honestly missing a Ferrari win (they had some real bad luck this season)


----------



## StevenC

Actually, the latest news is Mercedes have the best chassis because of their suspension. But Red Bull will definitely be strong there. I can see Ferrari lining up 5th and 6th, and Toro Rosso could have a good showing, too.


----------



## TheTrooper

Pretty nice race today 

Vettel did an incredible recovery even without the SC actually helping him out.

Some nice overtakes and battles I must say (Kimi Vs Lewis, Kvyat Vs Verstappen) really enjoyed it.


----------



## StevenC

Kvyat was really racing hard. Should have won DOTD, but the new DOTD format sucks.

Magnussen did a great job to get more points in the Renault.

Very exciting race, real shame Ricciardo couldn't get the win.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah man, Kvyat really delivered, awesome performance.

I think Seb deserved DOTD, he did an incredible job and was the fastest car for most of the race but still, I wanna see Kimi and him win a race this year.

Next one is Sepang where Ferrari won last year but I think there's a better chance in seeing some real fighting between the Mercs.

2 main long straights, many shorter straights, 3 chicanes (?) and sharp turns

Sepang can deliver some serious show next week.....but it's somewhat similar to Hockenheimring and that race was soporific.


----------



## StevenC

I was at the track this weekend! Don't know how it looked on TV, but it was a great race from where I was sitting. COTA is a fantastic track, too.

I'm very sunburnt, though.


----------



## StevenC

51st win for Hamilton. He'll have to do something special to make it to 91, though.


----------



## TheTrooper

Wow, the Brazilian GP was crazy.

Great race by LH and Max; Nico was more conservative, but he had to, so kudos to him.

Some nasty accidents here and there (Kimi's coul've been A LOT worse if somenody collected him) and great tribute to Felipe Massa.

Worst race direction that I ever witnessed.


----------



## shadscbr

For me, one of the coolest aspects of this race was watching Max pass so may cars on the outside, in the rain...that kid ain't scared. I don't agree w everything he does, but it's kind of fun watching him fight w Seb.....+1 on crazy race direction....just race


----------



## TheTrooper

Oh yeah, Max did an incredible race, unbelievable drive.

Those racing lines he was taking


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, Max was cool and all, but did you guys see Ocon?! Dude was doing the same thing, taking the same lines just in worse car, and he got points.


----------



## TheTrooper

All right, it's down to the very last round.
What's Your favorite for the title?


----------



## StevenC

Hamilton's going to do it, I'm sure. Right? Right?


----------



## TheTrooper

Naah, Rosberg has it if nothing crazy happens.

EDIT: Lewis knows how to win, but he doesn't really know how to lose; he doesn't deserve the WDC, Nico does.


----------



## StevenC

He won it in the same unimpressive, undeserving fashion as his dad. Fewer wins, poles and podiums. Better reliability, worse driving. More finishes off the podium despite starting on the front row every time.

At least Keke goes down a place on the least deserving WDC list.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> He won it in the same unimpressive, undeserving fashion as his dad. Fewer wins, poles and podiums. Better reliability, worse driving. More finishes off the podium despite starting on the front row every time.
> 
> At least Keke goes down a place on the least deserving WDC list.



I don't agree, but everybody's gonna have a different opinion and it's allright.
Lewis did't lost it in Malaysia, he lost it with all the bad starts he had, that's the truth.

Reliability is part of F1 as crashes are; what about James Hunt?
He won because Lauda had the accident? Maybe/maybe not because nevertheless, he had more DNF than Lauda even if Lauda missed 2 races.

What about Hill and Schumacher? Schumacher and Villeneuve? Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen? HAMILTON and MASSA (that was to the very last meter)
We could go on forever with examples, that's part of the sport(s)


Next Year might be a completely different story. Or maybe not.


----------



## StevenC

I'll accept that there's a lot of luck in F1 and sometimes it just doesn't fall your way. But even excluding that, how many times did Nico out drive Lewis? Singapore, Europe, Japan and Italy? Then compare that to his embarrassing drives in Monaco, Canada, Austria and Germany. He got 3 of his wins because there was no comparable car near him. Even his best race in Singapore, it's hard to say he was the best driver that day.

Yeah, Lewis didn't lose it in Malaysia. He lost it in Belgium, Bahrain, China, Russia, Baku and Malaysia.

If you're going to say Lewis doesn't deserve it and Nico does, you're going to have to back that up.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I'll accept that there's a lot of luck in F1 and sometimes it just doesn't fall your way. But even excluding that, how many times did Nico out drive Lewis? Singapore, Europe, Japan and Italy? Then compare that to his embarrassing drives in Monaco, Canada, Austria and Germany. He got 3 of his wins because there was no comparable car near him. Even his best race in Singapore, it's hard to say he was the best driver that day.
> 
> Yeah, Lewis didn't lose it in Malaysia. He lost it in Belgium, Bahrain, China, Russia, Baku and Malaysia.
> 
> If you're going to say Lewis doesn't deserve it and Nico does, you're going to have to back that up.



Outdriving somebody else doesn't really mean anything, I mean, Verstappen outdrove Ricciardo many times, but Daniel is still P3 in the standigs and He woul've been even if Max was in RB since day 1.
Let's not forget that Lewis screwed up 50% of his starts, for his own fault, as Nico did fewer times.

In Canada Lewis hit Nico and Ferrari screwed up, that could've been a different story.

What I meant with "doesn't deserve" was for what he did in the last laps.
Even his team was not ok with that, I mean, why would You risk to deprive Your team of a win? Lewis had 2 more WDC because of Mercedes, he should be respectful of the company and of his teammate, fair play should always be 1st in this situations (ok, he didn't do anything illegal,but come on, learn how to lose).


----------



## StevenC

Max and Daniel had a pretty competitive season, actually. Some races Daniel was miles ahead, others it was Max. This was a fairly even spread, too. Nico had 5 wins because Lewis had bad luck, compared to only 1 of Lewis's wins being without Nico beside or in front of him.

Lewis had 6 bad starts to Nico's 5. Hardly 50%.

If you're saying Nico and Lewis rubbing wheels on the Canada start was bad, what do you think of Austria, or even Spain?

You're genuinely going to criticise him for not wanting to lose? He's there to win WDCs. It's what Mercedes hired him for. His best chance to do that was to back Nico up, hoping he drops to 4th and getting the win. Mercedes had nothing at stake, really, and they've been saying for years that they want to allow both drivers to race. This is the second time Nico has come on the radio asking for Lewis to speed up instead of actually racing and overtaking him.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Max and Daniel had a pretty competitive season, actually. Some races Daniel was miles ahead, others it was Max. This was a fairly even spread, too. Nico had 5 wins because Lewis had bad luck, compared to only 1 of Lewis's wins being without Nico beside or in front of him.
> 
> Lewis had 6 bad starts to Nico's 5. Hardly 50%.
> 
> If you're saying Nico and Lewis rubbing wheels on the Canada start was bad, what do you think of Austria, or even Spain?
> 
> You're genuinely going to criticise him for not wanting to lose? He's there to win WDCs. It's what Mercedes hired him for. His best chance to do that was to back Nico up, hoping he drops to 4th and getting the win. Mercedes had nothing at stake, really, and they've been saying for years that they want to allow both drivers to race. This is the second time Nico has come on the radio asking for Lewis to speed up instead of actually racing and overtaking him.



I don't agree wth the bad luck story, in the first 4 races Nico was really going strong; Lewis might have had a issue in qualifying once, but he did plenty of mistakes during the first races.
Bad luck it is still part of the sports, like Nico had in 2014-2015.

Austria was Nico's fault, too aggressive; Spain was absolutely Lewis fault, he went for a gap that wasn't there and it was LAP 1. 
Nico closed the door at the same time Lewis went for it, but he felt the pressure of 4 wins to 0, and even if he saw the grass he didn't brake.
(that's how I see it and how Merc saw it)

The fact that the engine map was not the ideal one on Nico's car doesn't mean anything, You can choose the map and You can choose where and when to attack; too much adrenaline there.

Nico let lewis past at Monaco, where he had problems with his pace, not even a question and in fact lewis thanked him; Mercedes was happy because they wanted to win. That's part of being in a team.

Of course I wasn't criticising for wanting to win, I was criticising the fact that it is not "Lewis Hamilton's brand, directed by L.H." but Mercedes, and by not caring about giving another win for your team, You aren't really supportive of the team that gifted you 2 WDC with that spaceshift You're driving.

Remember when there was the Spain crash?
Merc did some tests with Wherlein, which was strange at that paricular moment; the reason was (according to what Ted Kravitz said in the Notebook) that L.H. wanted to leave the team; they panicked and let Pascal try some laps, in case mr. Rockstar was really going to leave.

Listen, I like Lewis but sometimes he is a little bit childish with his behaviour.
I think he is one of the greatest driver ever, but If we are going to argue about bad luck, failures and this and that, than we are going to argue on every single championship ever and Schumacher would have had 17 WDC.

There's no point, it is what it is, but let's face it: if he wasn't driving that Mercedes, he would be nowhere. If he was in the situation of Vettel, he would be 6 in the standings, maybe lower.
Driver's ability it's only 1 component, otherwise Alonso would be 1st even driving a shopping cart


----------



## TheTrooper

Nico is retiring

Unbelievable.
One of the few I really liked; I understand his reasons.

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...-announces-his-retirement-from-f1-racing.html


----------



## StevenC

I can't believe this. Fair play to him, he got his championship and that's where he's calling time on it.

It'll be interesting to see who gets his seat. Alonso, Pascal, maybe Jorge Lorenzo?


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> It'll be interesting to see who gets his seat. Alonso, Pascal, maybe *Jorge Lorenzo*?




That is a nice joke 

Yeah it's crazy, but now so much possibilities opens up.

Alonso? He should be there with Lewis, I want that "2007 again" type of feeling

Wherlein? I doubt It's gonna be someone so young, because Mercedes will try to win the title again next year, so they might go with someone experienced BUT Pascal is the only one of the youngs who tested the Merc so.....

They are already speculating on Vettel and Alonso, but hear me out: the get Verstappen and Gasly goes to Red Bull (Or Kvyat goes to Reb Bull and Gasly to Toro Rosso).

I'm crazy, I know.


----------



## StevenC

Max is staying put. Daniel is more likely to move because he's already suspicious of where Red Bull's loyalty lies. Seb's staying put, but Fernando could leave. Hulkenberg made his decision too early. The obvious choices are Bottas or Wehrlein as their Mercedes/Wolff drivers.

Lorenzo actually tested the Mercedes a few weeks ago, and after the race on Sunday was very coy about racing on 4 wheels.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Max is staying put. Daniel is more likely to move because he's already suspicious of where Red Bull's loyalty lies. Seb's staying put, but Fernando could leave. Hulkenberg made his decision too early. The obvious choices are Bottas or Wehrlein as their Mercedes/Wolff drivers.
> 
> Lorenzo actually tested the Mercedes a few weeks ago, and after the race on Sunday was very coy about racing on 4 wheels.




Yeah, that was just me thinking of absolutely the most impossible ways this is going to resolve 

Mercedes is going to do a livestream FB with Nico, Lewis, PASCAL and ESTEBAN and they added "..You don't wanna miss this.."


----------



## Elwood

I hope Bottas does go to Merc and Massa goes back to Williams. With the money Williams will have coming in & the savings on engines as part of the deal with Bottas going to Merc it should make them more competitive.

Red bull will hopefully be even more competitive. No idea what Ferrari are going to be link in 2017 though, it should be a fun season.


----------



## Elwood

Are all the other F1 fans in hibernation during the off season? 

Or is everyone one here more NASCAR?


----------



## TheTrooper

Elwood said:


> I hope Bottas does go to Merc and Massa goes back to Williams. With the money Williams will have coming in & the savings on engines as part of the deal with Bottas going to Merc it should make them more competitive.
> 
> Red bull will hopefully be even more competitive. No idea what Ferrari are going to be link in 2017 though, it should be a fun season.



Yeah, Bottas is surely going to Merc, really few doubts about that.
We will finally see him in a very competitive car and also see how he compares with Lewis, so it's definetly good for the show.

According to many sites Massa has accepted a 6 Million $ deal with Williams IF Bottas goes to Merc; with all the money Stroll is (has already) bringing in the team, they will surely gonna be pretty well ahead of some team I bet.

My money for next season are on Red Bull and Mercedes but I really hope Ferrari gets extremely creative with the loopholes and comes out with the greatest car of all.
The engine is good, the chassis and aereodinamycs in general not really.
(2007 and 2008 was an exception)


----------



## SD83

Elwood said:


> hibernation during the off season?



Pretty much that  
I'm kind of glad Massa is back, maybe he can finish his next last race in Brazil next year, him crashing there was a bit sad. 
Really curious how next year will turn out, a lot of changes, maybe Mercedes will not dominate that much, and I hope we'll see less races where nothing happens at all for the last half of it. And I hope Verstappen won't stop driving like a complete lunatic from time to time, if everyone just drives like a machine, avoiding flaws, avoiding risks, I'd end up falling asleep by lap 10  All those radio calls from Vettel "he got really close to me, he has to be punished" "it's raining, we have to stop"... those guys are getting paid millions of $ to race. And than you got Hamilton, it's pouring with rain and he's like "get that safety car off the track, the track is fine, I want to race" ... Being careful and reasonable is something you do on public roads, as long as nobody gets seriously hurt, racing is something else. Or should be, I think.


----------



## TheTrooper

Isn't time to announce Bottas?
Come on Merc, we're waiting!


----------



## StevenC

It's a real shame Manor have gone into administration. They had some good performances this year with Pascal and Esteban.


----------



## TheTrooper

Just announced fellas, Massa is back in Williams and Bottas takes Nico's places (act like we didn't know)


----------



## StevenC

And Pascal goes to Sauber, don't forget that one!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> And Pascal goes to Sauber, don't forget that one!



Yep, he's really exited  about that


----------



## TheTrooper

Sooooo, the 2017 Sauber is out (as renderings of the Williams).

Not too shabby, but I'm more interested in seeing Merc, McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari.


----------



## StevenC

That Sauber looks fantastic. Gorgeous livery. I'll not judge the Williams until we see in the flesh photos. The big thing for me is how minor the width increase in the cars is. Going from 1997 to 1998, the cars looked really strangely proportioned and too narrow, but I think they fixed that pretty well with the low front wings and high rear wings. These new cars still look well proportioned to me, so that's a good thing.

It'll be exciting to see the McLaren with the naming system change and rumoured orange. Supposedly Ferrari have the Mercedes nose now, too, though they're also rumoured to be behind on the chassis, so what else is new?


----------



## TheTrooper

Today Renault will unveil their car, I hope they mantained the Banana Yellow, it's a great colour. (Maybe with some good 'ol light blue)

Ferrari has to deliver, lots of rumors but until we see the car nothing is true 

I hear they did something really interesting with the engine and the construction of the pistons, but we'll see.

They need a good chassis and good aerodynamic, and if they took some ideas from the old F2007/2008 good results might be there


----------



## StevenC

Don't really like the Renault. I feared that the 2017 regulations would result in cars that look like they're trying to look cool, and the Renault embodies that. Also not feeling the livery. Too much black, last year's was perfect.

What Ferrari needs is some continuity and support of engineers, instead of blame and threats of firing. It takes a while to build a good team who can build a good car, and Ferrari don't seem interested in taking the time to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at another 20 year drought, it's already been 10.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Don't really like the Renault. I feared that the 2017 regulations would result in cars that look like they're trying to look cool, and the Renault embodies that. Also not feeling the livery. Too much black, last year's was perfect.
> 
> What Ferrari needs is some continuity and support of engineers, instead of blame and threats of firing. It takes a while to build a good team who can build a good car, and Ferrari don't seem interested in taking the time to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at another 20 year drought, it's already been 10.



Yeah, the Renault wasn't what I thought it would be; it looks cool enough but I wanted more.
I like the new air intake on the top, that's cool; I'm sure the cars will all look different in the 1st session of test (and in Melbourne).

Interesting to see that the diffuser it's really plain and simple; I hoped for some more complex design and even a double decker diffuser (but I think it's too soon to show all the good stuff, if they have any)

The problem with Ferrari it's the same problem there's in Italy: Politics and a super narrow-minded way of doing stuff; I hope they pushed some boundaries, otherwise it's going to be a loooooong year for them.


----------



## StevenC

The new Force India is ugly. The new regulations are 1 for 3 so far, but I think Mercedes will deliver, because they've had the best looking car the past three years, excluding livery.


----------



## TheTrooper

I agree, not too much impressed with Force India, but I like the Aerodynamics I'm seeing.
The nose is terrible, but if it works it works.
Tomorrow it's Merc turn, and so far, the paintjob they did looks sick; there a video where they spray it and it is really really cool.

Such a simple idea (Silver) but so damn violent  (maybe, the fact that they are current champions add to that "violence")

Hope McLaren will deliver something awesome, same for Ferrari and Reb Bull.

I would like a Ferrari with a Darker red, like 2007/2008


(The thing with these liveries is that most of the important parts are black; it's hard to see the exact shape. It's going to be easier with Ferrari and Merc)


----------



## StevenC

Andrew Benson is reporting that the McLaren will be white and orange. Now while normally I wouldn't listen to anything the worst journalist in F1 says, McLaren have been teasing a lot of orange so that'll be interesting to see.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Andrew Benson is reporting that the McLaren will be white and orange. Now while normally I wouldn't listen to anything the worst journalist in F1 says, McLaren have been teasing a lot of orange so that'll be interesting to see.



That would be sick.
If the scheme is similar to the MP4/4 it would be really something cool.
But I doubt it, because I feel they took a different scheme with it.
And with the name.
And the Team Principal.
And the other guy that was there.

hahah


----------



## StevenC

Oh my gosh!

The W08 is the best looking F1 car in a long time. It's just all sorts of crazy!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Oh my gosh!
> 
> The W08 is the best looking F1 car in a long time. It's just all sorts of crazy!




120% True.

It's stunning.

The colour, the shape, the bargeboards, the nose, the 2 fins close to the front suspensions, the floor (that is crazy large and detailed).

Every space that could be filled with winglets and stuff (like the rear wing) is filled.
I don't know what Newey has up his sleeves, but that's why Mercs is the current champion; incredible R&D.


----------



## TheTrooper

Not sure what to think of the Ferrari. 
Some stuff seems interesting, but we have to wait Barcellona and Melbourne.

The McLaren is WOW.
Crazy colour scheme, interesting what they did with the nose.


----------



## StevenC

Not really digging the McLaren's livery yet. Maybe I'll have to see it moving. Nose is very cool. Ferrari wheelbase is interesting.

Aside from that, both seem underwhelming after the Mercedes yesterday, though.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Not really digging the McLaren's livery yet. Maybe I'll have to see it moving. Nose is very cool. Ferrari wheelbase is interesting.
> 
> Aside from that, both seem underwhelming after the Mercedes yesterday, though.



Yeah, the livery is kinda meh (To me McLarens are either the Vodafone iones or the West ones) but the aerodynamics are really well thougth; I'm impressed with all the slots and stuff they did with the nose and rear wing.

Ferrari has some stuff really really similar to Mercedes, maybe their approach is not that different; hard to say who did the best job, but It's intriguing that neither Ferrari or McLaren have revealed their diffuser.


----------



## StevenC

Worth noting is that Ferrari have a long wheelbase car in development, and Mercedes have a short wheelbase car in development.


----------



## TheTrooper

THE HAAS CAR!
LOOK AT THAT!

Best car so far. Period.
Color scheme is outstanding.

(Similar aerodynamics to the Ferrari, obviously)


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, that Haas is a very handsome car.

Tomorrow's the big day with the Red Bulls.


----------



## StevenC

I was under the impression that this year would see a fix for the noses. That hasn't materialised so far.

Speaking of which, what's going on with the RB13's nose? The rest of the car looks like an RB12 with new wings and a fin, where's all the aero wizardry?


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I was under the impression that this year would see a fix for the noses. That hasn't materialised so far.
> 
> Speaking of which, what's going on with the RB13's nose? The rest of the car looks like an RB12 with new wings and a fin, where's all the aero wizardry?




The nose is soooooo strange, looks like an old dustbuster; I can't say anything about the new because....where is the new car? 

I see this going 2 way:

1- They haven' revealed anything at all, didn't even bother adding all the aero stuff for the reveal.

2- The number "13" it's going to be unlucky for RB.


(Isn't the sharf fin smaller than all the others?)


----------



## StevenC

I think their shark fin only looks smaller because Red Bull are using, and have typically used, all of the minimum body work on their airbox. If you compare the RB12 ro the W07, or any of the other cars, you'll see they all have a fin but the RB12 doesn't. The fins existed purely to fulfil the minimum body requirements.

On another note

THAT STR12! WOW!


----------



## StevenC

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! So cool!

I figure it's time to post pictures of all the new cars now that we have them:


----------



## TheTrooper

Looks like "13" wasn't much of a lucky number 


McLaren........what the f*ck....


----------



## StevenC

I think you misspelled "Honda"...

Also, Mercedes now have a shark fin, a whale tail, and the latest addition: the blow hole.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I think you misspelled "Honda"...
> 
> Also, Mercedes now have a shark fin, a whale tail, and the latest addition: the blow hole.





Hahahaha
Yeah, poor McLaren, not entirely their fault.

Didn't notice that thing of the sharkfin, looks pretty interesting


----------



## TheTrooper

Interesting lap times between Merc and Ferrari, but what the heck is Stroll doing?

He is supposed to keep the car on the track, not on the gravel


----------



## StevenC

Force India has been safed!


----------



## StevenC

FP1!


----------



## TheTrooper

Quali were not too bad, the start it's gonna be the key though.
Sad for Ricciardo, it was a pretty unfortunate crash


----------



## Dayviewer

While I'm super happy with the results (sad for Alonso and Ricciardo though) it was quite a boring race, hope to see some more action in the next one!


----------



## StevenC

One of these days F1 will realise Melbourne is a terrible place to have the first race of the season. Especially if you've got a new formula in which no one can overtake.

Yeah boring race, made worse by none of the world feed graphics working. I had no idea what was going on anywhere in the field, so decided David Croft wasn't any help and went to bed.


----------



## TheTrooper

Melbourne it's always like that, it's strange circuit, it's good but strange.
Add that there was the change with the rules and nobody really knows how to make the cars work at their 100% potential.

Ricciardo has to be the most unfortunate driver of the year, 1st race is homesoil and It's probably gonna be one of the few times were he retires with mechanical issues....

Very few overtakes, but DRS didn't really do much here (good or bad that is), maybe some real overtakes in the next rounds; some were pretty damn good (Perez, Ocon, Hulk)
Shanghai it's still going to be a work in progress I think, but the layout itself is much more overtak-y.

Agree on the Camera work and stuff, they had some trouble with the equipment.


----------



## StevenC

Also, this was the first race I've watched where I've been angry about how bad the race direction was from the film crew. They seemed intent on showing boring things.


----------



## Dayviewer

Awesome drive from Max today!  Could have done without the whining at the end though, just race kid.
Alonso killed it again with that car, too bad it gave up on him like last time also.
Hoping for a bit close action between Vettel and Hamilton next race.


----------



## TheTrooper

Incredible race, easily one of the most entertaining of the last 5-10 years.

Verstappen did the impossible, that RB doesn't look too strong but in the right conditions everthing is possible.

Glad people were wrong about the overtakes, most of them (Vettel/Ricciardo/Verstappen/Grsojean/Massa/Perez/Sainz) were the real deal.
I think they should add a little more room for the DRS zone as they want, but not too much to have a easy overtake with it.

Safety Car behaved strangely (the queue in the PitLane and the non-bunch up of the cars) but it was good; Still, the camera work was kinda spotty today too, they missed a couple of hit/spuns.

Bahrain is just in a week


----------



## Dayviewer

^ The safety car needed to go through the pitlane because the debry was widely spread out over the straight.
Or did you mean something else?


----------



## TheTrooper

Nono, I know they had to do that because of the stricken car on the straight, what I was meaning is that the train of cars never got "compacted", they all kept the same distance they had before the SC was deployed.

Lewis had a big gap from the 2nd, so did others with they guy behind/in Front.
They are always very strict with rules regarding the SC, semmed strange.
Glad they got much more flexible with rules (like Vettel in that position on the grid, Checo coming to blows with Stroll) without the need to give penalty if X guy had to sneeze Haha


----------



## Dayviewer

Ah that yeah, noticed that as well.
Perhaps it's that everyone just needs to maintain a certain speed these days? that's what happens with the 'virtual safety car' at least.

Happy about the rules being more flexible as well, it's a race and people can make mistakes, that should be ok.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah, it was like the Safety Car had to respect VSC 

Looking forward for next week, Bahrain is a great track, hope it delivers.


----------



## StevenC

Valtteri Bottas gets his first pole position in Bahrain!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Valtteri Bottas gets his first pole position in Bahrain!




Check his Pole lap; unbelivable how he hit the apex(es?) of the corners, so clean and perfect, almost videogame-like control


----------



## StevenC

For anyone who doubts Bottas's ability on a Saturday, just look to the 2014 Russian Grand Prix. Such a shame his tyres gave out at the end of that lap.


----------



## TheTrooper

Sick race in Barhain, the new aero-regulations improved the show A LOT.
Great battle at the front with the Red and Silver cars, but the ones at the back were really good.
I hate to see Nando struggling so much, but the car is good in the turns, it's just the Honda engine that sucks balls.
I bet that in sochi Merc will strike back again,....or maybe not Hahah


----------



## StevenC

Great to see Bottas get his first win after such a long time! Quali was interesting and it was strange seeing Lewis so off compared to Valtteri.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yep, he deserved the win, no doubt about that.

That was the sleepiest race of all times, nothing happened until the last 10 lasp where.....nothing happened 

For some strage reasons, I enjoyed it.
Or maybe not, I was so bored that I thought I enjoyed it.....I still have to decide that.


----------



## StevenC

Annoyingly my electricity cut out about 15 laps into the race, but then came back at about lap 50, so I got to see the exciting bits and it seems I didn't miss anything.

I really like this track, but putting wider more aero dependant cars on track like this was never going to result in a lot of passes. I've seen a lot of people saying they shuold dump this track because of that. Just wait for Monaco.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah but the truth is: it is Formula 1, the cars have to be extreme and have huge downforce, that's why it's fun.
I bet it's the same amount of overtakes in the 2007-2008 era; I do really believe the show has improved.
The Sochi race was by no means a bad race, it just didn't have overtakes but it was tense.

The problem are the tracks and not the cars: Monaco is always a great race because it's Monaco, Singapore is the night race and it's super cool (easily my fav. track) , Sochi isn't at night and isn't Monaco (that's why is not so great).

Last year german GP was boring, Sochi was way better; I'm sure most of the races are going to be really good, like the past ones.


----------



## StevenC

I think F1 management and fans need to accept the reality that in every era of every sport there have been some boring events. Formula 1 is no different. The difference being that F1 has 20 races a year whereas you can watch bad football any night of the week.

Also, I believe Russia is supposed to become a night race. Maybe next year?


----------



## StevenC

Fernando was looking good today at his first test at Indianapolis.


----------



## TheTrooper

It was pretty cool, I saw the livestrem on YT.
He did a pretty damn good job, I'm sure he's looking good for the race.


----------



## TheTrooper

Wow, the W08 is just WOW.

Everybody believed RB to bring a heavy update, Merc brought half new car.

These are the best looking cars F1 has ever had, they just look sick.


----------



## StevenC

That W08 seems pretty fast, too. However my money is on either Bottas or Ricciardo winning this race, somehow.


----------



## TheTrooper

Mmm I don't know, I would rule out the #77, the engine isn't on par with the one Ham has, but who knows, he did a great job in Russia.

I want to see Kimi win, just to hear him on the podium answer to the question: 
" How is this win after 128 GP?" 
" BWOAH, nothing special, just like the previous ones"


----------



## StevenC

Actually, if Kimi wins tomorrow it'll be 80 GP since his last win. For comparison it took Bottas 81 GP to win his first.

I say it'll be one of those two because Catalunya needs to keep its streak going.


----------



## StevenC

Pleasantly surprised by an actually good race in Barcelona. Really enjoyed it.


----------



## TheTrooper

Great race, so much stuff going on,
Some sick overtakes and some unfortunate crashes, best race of the season so far for me.

Next is Monaco and JB takes Alo place, let's see what McLaren can do there.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Yup that was a fantastic race. I've only just gotten hardcore into F1 last year, so this is my first full season and i'm loving it. The Vettel/Hamilton battle is classic....i'm a Hamilton fan but would much rather see good races than Merc domination, and this year has delivered.

Was also glad to see Kvyat up in 9th after a rough weekend...I am fond of him, perhaps due to his being a metalhead but just seems like an everyman type, human flaws and all.


----------



## TheTrooper

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Yup that was a fantastic race. I've only just gotten hardcore into F1 last year, so this is my first full season and i'm loving it. The Vettel/Hamilton battle is classic....i'm a Hamilton fan but would much rather see good races than Merc domination, and this year has delivered.
> 
> Was also glad to see Kvyat up in 9th after a rough weekend...I am fond of him, perhaps due to his being a metalhead but just seems like an everyman type, human flaws and all.



Man this Year is a really good time for everybody to get into F1; not that the last year or 2015 was bad, but now it's just another level.

The fact that two teams (3 and 1/2 drives...Kimi will start to get into the Rhythm in a couple of races) are fighting between each other, is not only good for the sport, but also good for them.
Mercedes loves this even more than winning constantly, because when they were alone in front the cameras barely looked at them, now they get much more TV time because there's a real fight.


----------



## StevenC

http://racecontrol.indycar.com/

For anyone who wants to watch Alonso at Indianapolis for the next week and a half.


----------



## StevenC

Quali was great yesterday, an incredible lap from Hamilton and a touching gift from the Senna family.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Quali was great yesterday, an incredible lap from Hamilton and a touching gift from the Senna family.


No one's a better choice than LH for that helmet, pretty nice gift


----------



## TheTrooper

Anybody's face during the Baku GP


----------



## StevenC

That was probably the craziest race I've ever seen.

Also, what the hell was Vettel doing? Telemetry says Lewis didn't brake, lift off, or behave differently to the other two safety car restarts. Yet Vettel piles into the back of him, blames him, then drives along side to crash into him either intentionally or due to complete incompetence.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> That was probably the craziest race I've ever seen.
> 
> Also, what the hell was Vettel doing? Telemetry says Lewis didn't brake, lift off, or behave differently to the other two safety car restarts. Yet Vettel piles into the back of him, blames him, then drives along side to crash into him either intentionally or due to complete incompetence.


Ehhh to be fair, LH did brake but his intentions weren't to brake check Vet, who had a stupid reaction.
He could've won the race without that.

Crazy race, so much fun; they should up their "car removing" skills, because it's pretty dangerous.


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, he braked for the corner.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Yeah, he braked for the corner.


That's the thing, not sure what's going on, but some people are hiding something.
On the Live broadcast you can clearly see he hit the brakes, right after the kink(?) that goes downhill; FIA is saying "Telemetry shows he didn't brake"
Fuck yeah, he did, come on you showed that live 
Slowing too much still violates whatever art. of the Rulebook. 
I say it's 50/50 for a penalty.
Nevertheless, stupid reaction by Vet, but both did wrong for me.

Bottas go lucky too, kerb o not, anyone else would've been penalised.

That's what made the race great, I would really pay to have so much fun every single time.


----------



## StevenC

There's a good history of the telemetry graphics being out of sync. He slowed down, in the same way as the other restarts, to let the safety car get ahead of the pack. Baku has a very long straight with the pit lane a good distance away from it, and he needs to let the much slower safety car get far enough ahead so that the whole field isn't catching it at 350km/h. The rule is at that point the lead car becomes the safety car, and whenever he speeds up that's when the pack can. You can see this happen in any safety car restart ever, Baku just exaggerates how much space you need to give the safety car.

What happened, very simply, is that Vettel expected Hamilton to be going faster on the exit of that corner. Either because he forgot the safety car was coming in and Lewis was making space, or because he misjudged when Lewis would make the restart. As a result, he piled into the back of Lewis, got really pissed off and decided to pull along side and show his frustration. It'd be really hard to give Lewis a penalty for doing what he's supposed to and getting crashed into twice under safety car conditions. Even if you execute the mental gymnastics required to call the first collision 50/50, the second instance where Seb used his car as a weapon should be a race ban.

Bottas was penalised enough by being almost two laps down when he rejoined the race. Stewards have a good history of consistency on that one, but he potentially could have got a penalty point or two. He was only in it because of the chaos of the rest of the race that Kimi could have capitalised on just as easily.


----------



## Elwood

Is interesting that the FIA are investigating Vettel again. I don't think anything will come of it but I can't remember the last that the investigated after giving a penalty.

They've definitely got things wrong recently. In the last couple or races someone got an 5 second stop and go, then another for the same incident.


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, Kvyat was punished twice in Canada.


----------



## Elwood

Anyone else looking forward to the Austrian GP:

Will Vetted behave,
Will Hamilton recover from a gearbox penalty,
Will Verstappen make it to the end of the race!


----------



## Elwood

I went to the Austrian GP a few years ago and it rained the morning before the race. It caused chaos in the Porsche Supercup racing but was pretty dry for the main event. I think is due to be warm and dry this year, it would be nice for a bit of an upset like rain.


----------



## StevenC

There's talk of rain for tomorrow, and there was a chance for some at the end of qualifying that never showed up. Hopefully will be a good race with Bottas on pole and Hamilton carving his way through from 8th.


----------



## StevenC

Well, that was dull...


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Well, that was dull...


Nothing is going to compare to Azerbaijan.......

Quite interesting Silverstone, we actually made plans to go to the UK for a trip and then go see the GP on the last day, but soon after we made those plans, the terrorist attack in London happened and they I got screwed :|

Previews for Hungary?
Everybody says ferrari is the favourite, but I have the feeling that one is going to Merc too.

Also, WTF is Kvyat doing, He fucked up the last 2 races badly


----------



## StevenC

I don't know about Hungary. A few things at play there. Since it's tight and twisty, it could play into the strengths of the shorter wheelbased Ferrari, but they've been down on power since Baku. Then you've got Lewis coming off a dominant performance in Silverstone, at one of his best tracks. That could more than make up for any wheelbase issues, and Seb has never shown particular prowess in Hungary despite some terrific cars. With tyre issues seemingly solved, it's looking like a very interesting weekend.

I really feel for Kvyat. He had a good start to the year, but when it gets to silly season the pressure seems to get to him. It's a shame because I really like him.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

StevenC said:


> I really feel for Kvyat. He had a good start to the year, but when it gets to silly season the pressure seems to get to him. It's a shame because I really like him.



I like Kvyat alot too, just seems down to earth and it helps he is a metal fan or so reported. He has definitely had some bad luck this year, as well as some self inflicted problems, but i root for the guy every race. I'm a bit of an underdog fan, so guys like him and Stroll, who routinely get crapped on by the fans, I like to see succeed. Would love to see Kvyat in the points consistently, being mentioned for red bull or other drives.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah, they are actually doing/limiting the oil you can burn from the Italian GP to the end of the season (and it gets even thighter next season).
The interesting thing is: back in 2007, Ferrari had the longer Wheelbase vs the shorter of McLaren; the Red car was (from and aerodinamyc perspective) better with the downforce it generated while the Mclaren had more mechanical grip.
It's the opposite now (so it seems, but stuff changes so damn quickly this year) and we know how 2007 ended, but luck and other stuff comes into play.
Ferrari won in 2015, so it might be a good sign for the team, but if Vettel doesn't win the season is easily over.
If they kept the same feel and overall pace they had in Monaco, then it's pretty interesting, because only Spa and Monza are extremely power oriented, while Malaysia, Singapore, Suzuka and Abu Dabhi have waaay more twists and turns.

I really like Kvyat too, but he needs to do something this race.
Don't know why people talk shit about Stroll, he is getting better (and BTW, it's still a Williams so close to no downforce haha)


----------



## StevenC

Ferrari won in 2015, but not even close to because they had a car that deserved to win that race. Lewis was 7 tenths from Seb in qualifying, and the Mercedes definitely had the race pace. That was just a crazy race and Seb managed a better start than the Mercedes and seemed to be the only one to stay out of trouble.

I like Stroll, too. He was very good before F1, but I think with the faster, more physical cars this year it took a few races to get the hang of it. I imagine if he did GP2 this year and F1 next year, he'd come in looking a lot better. He gets too much crap for being a pay driver. Like Alonso or Schumacher.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Ferrari won in 2015, but not even close to because they had a car that deserved to win that race. Lewis was 7 tenths from Seb in qualifying, and the Mercedes definitely had the race pace. That was just a crazy race and Seb managed a better start than the Mercedes and seemed to be the only one to stay out of trouble.
> 
> I like Stroll, too. He was very good before F1, but I think with the faster, more physical cars this year it took a few races to get the hang of it. I imagine if he did GP2 this year and F1 next year, he'd come in looking a lot better. He gets too much crap for being a pay driver. Like Alonso or Schumacher.




You're right, I forgot about that.
I think Stroll it's a fine driver, getting a podium after less than 10 races is not easy and the Williams is behind the Force India and potentially even behind Renault now, but I'm sure upgrades are coming and moving forward with Lowe on board.


----------



## lewis

I used to love this sport but these days its become an utter utter farce.
Its more like a soap opera between Drivers and their spats on and off the track.
Coupled with over tweaking of the rules just "because" and blatant biased from the FIA and you have a clusterf*ck of a sport.

Just a few races ago we had a guy try to intentionally make a rival driver crash, and the FIA and their silly biases basically shrugged it off like it was nothing. In those cars, capable of those speeds, that could have been utterly catastrophic.
The Rules in general are stupid. The stuff around qualifying is woefully bad and the most stupid rule imo is being punished for mechanical failures.
"Oh you need a new gearbox before the race tomorrow?. PENALTY, sorry you will have to start in 10th on the grid" or whatever.
complete shambles.

I can confidently say, I do not miss it.


----------



## StevenC

To be fair, if you're tasked with building a race car and you don't build one that works, why shouldn't you get a penalty? Not to mention that mechanical failures have resulted in penalties for decades, it's just nowadays we have a lot of people like David Croft, who doesn't understand the sport, complaining about things he hasn't been around long enough to know about.


----------



## setsuna7

lewis said:


> I used to love this sport but these days its become an utter utter farce.
> Its more like a soap opera between Drivers and their spats on and off the track.
> Coupled with over tweaking of the rules just "because" and blatant biased from the FIA and you have a clusterf*ck of a sport.
> 
> Just a few races ago we had a guy try to intentionally make a rival driver crash, and the FIA and their silly biases basically shrugged it off like it was nothing. In those cars, capable of those speeds, that could have been utterly catastrophic.
> The Rules in general are stupid. The stuff around qualifying is woefully bad and the most stupid rule imo is being punished for mechanical failures.
> "Oh you need a new gearbox before the race tomorrow?. PENALTY, sorry you will have to start in 10th on the grid" or whatever.
> complete shambles.
> 
> I can confidently say, I do not miss it.


That's why I only watch MotoGP nowadays... Iannone blew his engine yesterday. Change to a new bike. No penalties...


----------



## StevenC

Well, I got my new tent for Spa. I'll wave if a camera is on me. Super excited for F1 coming back!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Well, I got my new tent for Spa. I'll wave if a camera is on me. Super excited for F1 coming back!


I'll look out for you on the TV.

Wait: how will I know it's you? Do you have a massive SSO flag/banner?


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Well, I got my new tent for Spa. I'll wave if a camera is on me. Super excited for F1 coming back!


Would love to go there one day.
Have fun!


----------



## StevenC

Had a blast at Spa! Sat at the bus stop for quali and the race. Invaded the track for the podium, and got on the pitwall fence. Watched all of scrutineering and all of the cars were wheeled passed me. Was about a metre from Lewis when he was on the fence signing, but couldn't reach my hat up to him.

I was on the live feed during FP1, at least. On the Kemmel straight just past the camera box, before all the flags.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Had a blast at Spa! Sat at the bus stop for quali and the race. Invaded the track for the podium, and got on the pitwall fence. Watched all of scrutineering and all of the cars were wheeled passed me. Was about a metre from Lewis when he was on the fence signing, but couldn't reach my hat up to him.
> 
> I was on the live feed during FP1, at least. On the Kemmel straight just past the camera box, before all the flags.


I want to go to Spa sooooo much (and also Suzuka); really thinking of going there next year.
I've been to Monza 2 times (2009 and 2012) but it is not really a track that I like, as far as layout, it's just fast.
I remember when I was 10-11 and went to the 2006 San Marino GP at Imola (1st GP I attended); that was absolutely fantastic and it was the 1st win of the Year for MSC, in front of Alonso and Montoya.
I remember the noise (at the 2012 one I even got tinnitus for like 2 days)


----------



## r33per

That's a very soggy Monza for Qually...


----------



## StevenC

Incredible session when it finally got going!


----------



## TheTrooper

Great quali, finally a nice shake up of the grid.
Massive achievement with 69 poles for LH, and still, You have people thinking he's not good (mainly stupid italians) 
The problem was the main straight, they re-surfaced it and the asphalt isn't draining water properly yet.
What a great job from Stoll and Ocon, that's pretty fucking impressive.
Also Vandoorne did pretty good with that crap Honda engine


----------



## StevenC

And what a way to get the all time pole record. Doing it by over a second! Truly one of the greatest of all time.
All credit to Lance and Esteban, too. Great performance from the both of them, hope to see at least one of them on the podium. And it's good to see Ocon and Perez separated by a few cars.


----------



## Vostre Roy

With Stroll's current success, I might have to restart following F1, Villeneuve broke my will to watch thoses races when he went from champion to nothing (not even gonna comment on his album... )


----------



## TheTrooper

Vostre Roy said:


> With Stroll's current success, I might have to restart following F1, Villeneuve broke my will to watch thoses races when he went from champion to nothing (not even gonna comment on his album... )


Hopefully Williams gets more competitive for 2018, they just mentioned they will approach the car in a radically different way compared to this year and "copy" some of the other teams configurations.

In defense of Jacques, the last decent car he had was the 1997 FW19, then he had pure crap.
1997 is still one of my fav seasons, he did some pretty good stuff that year.
I listened to one of his song, Father(?); wasn't that bad actually (maybe it was the only decent one?)


----------



## TheTrooper

Nice start.
No, really.


----------



## TheTrooper

Sooo, How do you guys think the Champsionship is going to progress?
Chance for Vet to re-catch up or it's just over?


----------



## StevenC

I'd say most of the tracks for the rest of the year should suit Mercedes pretty well. High temperatures in Malaysia and Brazil might help Ferrari, and I think Vettel could pull something off in Japan. 28 is a lot of points.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I'd say most of the tracks for the rest of the year should suit Mercedes pretty well. High temperatures in Malaysia and Brazil might help Ferrari, and I think Vettel could pull something off in Japan. 28 is a lot of points.


Yeah, I believe Malaysia will be a pretty even fight ( considering that Mercedes has a slighlty older engine)
Japan not sure, most of the corners are Silverstone like, but it also need high downforce and Vettel has always been very good at Suzuka.
USA even fight pretty much, lots of slower-ish corner but also faster ones.
Mexico is much more Ferrari suited, as is Abu Dhabi and Brazil (maybe?)
Constructor's Championship is absolutely over, unless they pull six consecutive 1-2 finishes and both Mercs always get 5-6 and retire at least once.


----------



## r33per

Well, that was an unexpected pair of races...

Really sorry for Raikkonen. I'm not like a massive fan or anything, but you got to feel for the guy who has been doing everything right for the past few races and has just not had the luck.

Hamilton or Vettel? Post your prediction!

For me: before Singapore, Vettel; after Malaysia, Hamilton.


----------



## TheTrooper

Aaaand now it is definetly over.


----------



## TheTrooper

Big shame, because we're now deprived of what was an awesome Championship; but that's how it goes, hopefully the last 4 races will still be a hard fight.
The only way Vet can turn this out is by winning all 4 of them and with Lewis not scoring for at least 1 of them and scoring really badly the others.

Still, Mercedes deserves the Constructor's Title and Lewis deserves the Driver's Title; whatever the people might say (I mean, in italy only Ferrari exists, there are very few real F1 fans) Ham is THE driver of the decade; he has all the Rockstar attitude that we all like (eheh) and the talent that goes along with it.
They got a little lucky in Singapore, Malaysia and Suzuka but as they say "Better be lucky than talented".

Unfortunately for Ferrari, Mercedes is extremely talented too


----------



## StevenC

Brendon Hartley and Daniil driving for STR in Austin, while Sainz leaves for Renault and Gasly finishes off Super Formula. Cool!


----------



## TheTrooper

Geez!
Go check out the updates Haas brought for the USA GP.
WTF?


----------



## StevenC

I've loved following the aero developments this year. So many cool little bits all over the place and from every team.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I've loved following the aero developments this year. So many cool little bits all over the place and from every team.


Shame it didn't really work for Haas, but I guess it's more tyre related than anything else.
(Geez, Grosjean is whining about something all the freakin' time....)

What a great USGP it was, one of the best of the year.
Nice overtakes and fights, from top to bottom.
And what a great job Sainz did!


----------



## r33per

TheTrooper said:


> What a great USGP it was, one of the best of the year.
> Nice overtakes and fights, from top to bottom.
> And what a great job Sainz did!


That stewards' decision though. Regardless of whether or not the decision is right, the timing was shockingly bad.

Crappy end to a great weekend.


----------



## TheTrooper

r33per said:


> That stewards' decision though. Regardless of whether or not the decision is right, the timing was shockingly bad.
> 
> Crappy end to a great weekend.


Totally agree, in fact, I couldn't believe when they announced it right when they were "backstage" at the podium.
"5 sec for what?" then they showed the video and unfortunately it was correct, but bad timing.
Happy for Kimi, because he kept those Soft tyres for a LOT.
Very sorry for Vettel, I thought he did a great great race, shame he didn't share my feeling (he was pretty disappointed)


----------



## StevenC

I think Vettel was really lucky Bottas is the guy in the other Mercedes. Really curious how much of the Mercedes performance in this half of the season has been the car improving or Lewis upping his game. If Valtteri were on the pace here since the summer break, Vettel would be out of the championship by now. Only time he was comparable was in Italy where Mercedes had by far their best pace advantage of the season.

With regards Max, right decision for sure, but I agree with Horner that if they made the rule decision after the Mexico podium the should have stuck to it.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I think Vettel was really lucky Bottas is the guy in the other Mercedes. Really curious how much of the Mercedes performance in this half of the season has been the car improving or Lewis upping his game. If Valtteri were on the pace here since the summer break, Vettel would be out of the championship by now. Only time he was comparable was in Italy where Mercedes had by far their best pace advantage of the season.
> 
> With regards Max, right decision for sure, but I agree with Horner that if they made the rule decision after the Mexico podium the should have stuck to it.


Well, let's be honest, LH is one of the greatest drivers ever, no matter what Era of F1 we are comparing.
VB is surely a great driver, but he does not have Ham experience in the Merc and he can't adapt to the car as good as HAM (I'm talking about the upgrades).
Ham also has the fastest car (at COTA the Merc was just better and had 30Kph with DRS and slipstream more than the Ferraris) at some circuits, so not much Vettel can do.
Next year might be another story, much more fought between 3-4 (and maybe 5) Teams, but this year LH just deserves the WDC. (different story if the 3 Asian races went good for Ferrari, but that's F1)

Surely, that makes Nico's WDC pretty freakin' valuable, despite what detractor might say of him.


----------



## StevenC

Yep, Lewis is one of the greatest ever all around. But from people praising Valtteri's consistency in the early season against Lewis's peaky performances, to Lewis having one of his most complete and well fought seasons is just incredible. Three more years like this could bring him to right around 90 wins...


----------



## TheTrooper

They dropped Kvyat!
Red Bull Racing/Toro Rosso/Marko terminated his contract.
That sucks.


----------



## StevenC

I'm so disappointed and I've always been a Kvyat fan. I've got my 2016 RB 26 hat sitting on my desk right now.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I'm so disappointed and I've always been a Kvyat fan. I've got my 2016 RB 26 hat sitting on my desk right now.


His sponsor said he will try to negotiate with Williams (Geez, everybody is aiming at that spot haha) but yeah, poorly treated, even though he did show poor performance this year.
A Stroll-Kvyat pairing would be pretty cool.


----------



## StevenC

WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!!

Also, Seb should have gotten a penalty for that. You can't crash into two cars and get away with it. Just a sloppy start for him.


----------



## SD83

Only watched half the race (again)... one of those races where only a major crash or technical failure could have made it interesting (at least regarding places 1-3) after the first couple of laps. So Hamilton won the championship, and his successor won the race, most likely  Well deserved. Not much of a fan of Hamilton, I'd much rather see Ricciardo win, or Bottas, or Raikonnen, but at least it's not Vettel. He lost every bit of sympathy I had for him with that crash in Baku.



StevenC said:


> Also, Seb should have gotten a penalty for that. You can't crash into two cars and get away with it. Just a sloppy start for him.


Suprisingly enough I don't think we got any radio from him complaining about how Verstappen and Hamilton cut him off or crashed into him. We heard him whining again when Massa tried to push him off track (which was not exactly nice, but you don't win races by being nice). I'm sick of Vettel whining about everything. "He cut me off! He pushed me off track! He changed lanes without using his indicators! I saw a cloud, we need the safety car on track NOW!" That is one of the few things I like about Hamilton, he just wants to race. "There's only one inch of water on the track, why do we have a fucking safety car on track? Seriously..."


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!!
> 
> Also, Seb should have gotten a penalty for that. You can't crash into two cars and get away with it. Just a sloppy start for him.


Yeah, not a good move, but he seems to be catching some understeer there and had to work with the wheel a bit, clearly not on purpose (but yeah, if it wasn't for P1 or the WDC that would've been a penalty)

Not a bad race, interesting to see how much problems Ham had to overtake cars (he had some damage at the diffuser).
DAT fight between him and Alonso was gold.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formula-1-set-out-clear-direction-2021-f1-power-unit-regulations

Please no!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formula-1-set-out-clear-direction-2021-f1-power-unit-regulations
> 
> Please no!


Why not?


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formula-1-set-out-clear-direction-2021-f1-power-unit-regulations
> 
> Please no!


No worries.
Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault will not give the all clear. 
Not a chance.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Why not?


The MGU-H is the coolest thing about Formula 1 at the minute. This is a step backwards and won't fix any of the sports problems. This won't bring Aston Martin or Volkswagon to the sport anymore than the current formula will. Aston Martin is ridiculous to begin with and I don't see how VW's interest will hinge on a PU that is less innovative than the ones they were building in WEC. They still have a turbo and they still won't rev to 18,000 or 20,000 rpm, so they won't sound like the 90s or 00s. One engine always dominates in F1, always has always will. It's been like that since the 80s when the DFV became redundant. There won't be another DFV. Cosworth have won 2 races in the last 20 years.

If F1 can realise it is a technology series not a spec series, and embrace what comes with that, it can move forward. There will always be a team with an engine advantage. We've seen this year that you can make the fastest car without the best engine. If we're going to have a series that's very aero dependant, then we're going to have cars that can't follow very easily. So our options are to have big names in the sport like Fiat, Renault and Mercedes building engines that matter, or to have Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and a low budget Ferrari team with essentially spec engines. The racing quality will be the same.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> The MGU-H is the coolest thing about Formula 1 at the minute. This is a step backwards and won't fix any of the sports problems. This won't bring Aston Martin or Volkswagon to the sport anymore than the current formula will. Aston Martin is ridiculous to begin with and I don't see how VW's interest will hinge on a PU that is less innovative than the ones they were building in WEC. They still have a turbo and they still won't rev to 18,000 or 20,000 rpm, so they won't sound like the 90s or 00s. One engine always dominates in F1, always has always will. It's been like that since the 80s when the DFV became redundant. There won't be another DFV. Cosworth have won 2 races in the last 20 years.
> 
> If F1 can realise it is a technology series not a spec series, and embrace what comes with that, it can move forward. There will always be a team with an engine advantage. We've seen this year that you can make the fastest car without the best engine. If we're going to have a series that's very aero dependant, then we're going to have cars that can't follow very easily. So our options are to have big names in the sport like Fiat, Renault and Mercedes building engines that matter, or to have Williams, McLaren, Red Bull and a low budget Ferrari team with essentially spec engines. The racing quality will be the same.



Agree with everything, but according to Motorsport.com/it Aston Martin is happy with the "specs" of the engines for 2021.
The problem is that they listened to the fans.
WRONG.
The fans know what they want, not what they need.
I doubt the big names will give the all clear; Twin turbo woul've been better anyway


----------



## StevenC

I get the feeling Aston Martin are going to say whatever Red Bull want them to say. I just can't believe that they have the resources to build an F1 engine to compete with whatever Ferrari or Mercedes would build.

But you're 100% right. Don't listen to the fans.


----------



## r33per

Thanks ☺

And I agree - technical prowess was always what drew me to F1, as well as a driver's ability to take that car and drive it beyond what most think possible.

Would you be in agreement with me that when they listen to fans (of which I am one, might I add), they make a formula change like DRS?


----------



## TheTrooper

Reb Bull of course would like that change, but RB doesn't build engines.
I think the Strategy Group(?) anf the Teams have a meeting scheduled for the 7th, but Mercedes is against, Ferrari is against and Renault too.
The " 3000revs more " is BS, 3 engines are not going to last an entire 22 rounds-season, not a chance.
Removing the limit of fuel consumption AND adding 3000 revs might do something, but I personally would prefer a stronger MGU-H and maybe a twin turbo.
If they really want to take down costs, they could do a "standard for all" MGU-H (horrendously powerful) and some other components.
They way the proposed the thing, that's basically bulding ONE engine for all with only the brand changed LOL


----------



## StevenC

I think this proposal includes upping the engine allowance to 6-8 engines for a season, which doesn't make any sense if we've only got 3 next year.

Personally, I'd love a twin turbo with a bigger MGU-H. That'd be crazy, and there's no sense removing technology from the engines. Make some absolute beasts out of, say, a 1.2L V4 or something.

DRS actually came about because the FIA devised a working group to increase on track overtakes. This included Ross Brawn, I believe Paddy Lowe and another I can't remember. They were told they weren't allowed to add active aero elements for increased straight line speed, and so they concluded that refueling should be banned. This worked. Then Abu Dhabi 2010 happened and Alonso couldn't get past Petrov; DRS was introduced and the working group were confused as to why it was being introduced when they were told not to suggest such a thing.


----------



## StevenC

Deja vu!

Felipe Massa is retiring at the end of this season.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Deja vu!
> 
> Felipe Massa is retiring at the end of this season.


Will he do the same thing as last year? (he's gonna crash on purpouse haha)

So Kubica and Kvyat for the Williams seat...interesting


----------



## StevenC

George Russel is doing FP1 in Abu Dhabi for Force India. He's been the class of the field in GP3 and ran for Mercedes in the Budapest test this year.


----------



## TheTrooper

Looks like Merc has solved any problem they had with the car on twisty- High Downforce tracks


----------



## StevenC

Unfortunately a dull end to the season.

But my gosh the new logo is bad and ugly.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Unfortunately a dull end to the season.



Stopped watching halfway through after I almost fell asleep... there was some nice racing for place 8 or so and further back though, with some cars (I think I remember Grosjean being involved several times) changing places in the first DRS zone, only to have that reversed in the second. The commentators though reminded me that I actually miss gravel beds around the track. When they had those, if you left the track, game over. Now, with the track surrounded by about half a mile of perfectly flat asphalt or concrete or whatever, unless you hit an actual wall, worst case scenario is a 5 second penalty.


----------



## r33per

SD83 said:


> Stopped watching halfway through after I almost fell asleep... there was some nice racing for place 8 or so and further back though, with some cars (I think I remember Grosjean being involved several times) changing places in the first DRS zone, only to have that reversed in the second. The commentators though reminded me that I actually miss gravel beds around the track. When they had those, if you left the track, game over. Now, with the track surrounded by about half a mile of perfectly flat asphalt or concrete or whatever, unless you hit an actual wall, worst case scenario is a 5 second penalty.


+1. It might not be cheaper, but it would be a much better penalty. Gone off track? Can't move on, race over and you've potentially just ruined the inner workings of your car for future races.

Favourite moment this season: cheering Alonso from the International Pits Straight after he topped Q1 at Silverstone. The place went absolutely nuts.


----------



## TheTrooper

Abu Dhabi is a beautiful setting, shame that the race it's a snoozefest 99,9% of the times.
Boring race, easily the worst of the season.
Jeez the logo.....We'll end up liking it if they keep it for 20 years hahah
Looks like a corporate logo, maybe if the changed the name to F1 Inc. 
Not really fond of it, but I don't really hate it; it's just meh.

We need gravel traps, HONESTLY!


----------



## StevenC

We would have gravel traps, except bikes and track days. Also Alonso in Australia last year...

I actually like Abu Dhabi to drive, but gosh darn is it a boring race track. Only action was Stroll braking way too early and then blasting back past on the second straight, and the odd lock up from Hamilton.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Also Alonso in Australia last year...



Almost forgot about that one. Rewatching it... it's insane to see what these cars can handle. For someone to walk away from a crash like that is unbelievable. Though I don't know about the gravel trap. It obviously sent him flying, the actual impact in the wall looked rather slow in comparison (though the footage on youtube is far from good). Sliding over asphalt might have made for a harder impact. I don't know  Never been racing, never crashed. Probably has its pros and cons, like everything. Wonder what some of the drivers think about that, experience with crashes and all. And for bikes & track days... didn't think about that, there they might be horrible.


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, a big part of gravel traps is that it's very damaging to a car, so tracks that run track days with what could be my daily driver prefer not to have gravel. 

An interesting crash to compare is Sainz's Russia 2016 crash. No gravel, but a barrier with very little run off. Without gravel Alsonso could probably have gotten the car slowed down enough that he could have done the next race.

F1 safety is my favorite topic, by the way.


----------



## TheTrooper

Pretty close to see the new cars guys.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Pretty close to see the new cars guys.


https://www.haasf1team.com/VF18

As if by magic


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> https://www.haasf1team.com/VF18
> 
> As if by magic


Hahahaha I know right?
Not bad the Haas, but looking for actual real photos; renders tend to conceal everything.


----------



## StevenC

Even as a render, those sidepod deflectors are very interesting, and they've gone with Ferrari's air intake concept.


----------



## StevenC

This is one of the best looking cars I've ever seen.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> This is one of the best looking cars I've ever seen.


I was going to say exactly that.
Man, Looks like Ferrari got the sidepod-thing right last year; I'm sure almost all the cars will have that layout.

Don't shoot me, but the HALO goes well with the car(s).

There, I said it


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> I was going to say exactly that.
> Man, Looks like Ferrari got the sidepod-thing right last year; I'm sure almost all the cars will have that layout.
> 
> Don't shoot me, but the HALO goes well with the car(s).
> 
> There, I said it


My opinion is that almost every "ugly" thing that's been on the cars has become loved later on. Except the X-wings and nose wings. The Halo kinda flows alright when integrated with the chassis and painted accordingly.

Also, I'm very pro Halo from a safety stand point.


----------



## Joan Maal

A new hope... 

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/964480752514715660?s=20

I only hope no more horrible seasons ;-0


----------



## TheTrooper

Joan Maal said:


> A new hope...
> 
> https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/964480752514715660?s=20
> 
> I only hope no more horrible seasons ;-0


I'm sure they'll be fine this time.
Last Year the car was pretty damn good, same regulations so hopefully they've evolved their chassis even more.


----------



## TheTrooper

F*CK ME, THE RED BULL TEST LIVERY IS CRAZY!


----------



## StevenC

Ah the Red Bull! The first time we get a chance to see some cool new bits.






Weird new air inlet, unlike the Ferrari/Haas/Williams solution but a similar sort of idea. Plus funky bent wishbones.





Side pod deflectors have gone from last year's Ferrari style to Mercedes.





Can't tell if it looks more like a fighter jet, spaceship or boat, but it looks great.


----------



## Joan Maal

It really looks like a spaceship... not a car. Not the definitive colors, but beauty. Forza Max and Richiardo !!


----------



## StevenC

Sauber and Renault shown off. Renault seems very boring, to be honest, but the Sauber has some asro bits on the Halo and interesting sidepods.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Sauber and Renault shown off. Renault seems very boring, to be honest, but the Sauber has some asro bits on the Halo and interesting sidepods.


The Renault is like last year's car, just paintend differently.
Not impressed.


----------



## StevenC

Very interesting side pods, airbox and Force India nose. Side pod deflectors are really simple. Also they've gone to the Ferrari style of rear wing support.


----------



## TheTrooper

Geez, I really really want to see Merc, Ferrari and McLaren.


----------



## r33per

It is the most excited I've been pre-season for quite some time now. Really looking forward to seeing these cars getting raced.


----------



## StevenC

No good images to see what's going on around the side pods and coke bottle, yet. Wheelbase looks a lot shorter and the bardgeboards and deflectors look very very aggressive. Sticking to old style air intake.


----------



## Joan Maal

Just this Morning... at the airport


----------



## TheTrooper

Love the livery on the Merc, but really curious to see what McLaren did; interesting sidepods from the shot


----------



## StevenC

Drop dead gorgeous.

I think I have a thing for side pods.


----------



## TheTrooper

I love that car, that's a lot of stuff!


----------



## StevenC

Aside from the Indy paint job, this is quite underwhelming. Like the Renault, I can't imagine this is anywhere near the finished product and we'll see a much different aero kit at testing.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Aside from the Indy paint job, this is quite underwhelming. Like the Renault, I can't imagine this is anywhere near the finished product and we'll see a much different aero kit at testing.


Oh yeah, absolutely.
Last year they covered the diffuser at the presentation, they are not showing their cards yet.
They said already there will be a consistent upgrade for Melbourne.


----------



## StevenC

That said, look at that floor!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> That said, look at that floor!


I wonder how is that floor not going to flex?
Maybe they found something really worth pursuing at Mclaren


----------



## r33per

TheTrooper said:


> Maybe they found something really worth pursuing at Mclaren


Like, most of the other cars on the track?


----------



## StevenC

Shame about the nose and those pitot tubes are awfully conspicuous.


----------



## StevenC

Last but not least!







Alonso trying to test how safe this Halo really is.



















Some cool bits as well.


----------



## TheTrooper

It's race week, who's ready?


----------



## StevenC

Very jet lagged so getting up at 6am for the race should really help.


----------



## StevenC

IT'S HAPPENING!


----------



## TheTrooper

Hamilton gave himself 0,881s to himself in his second Q3 run.
Unf*cking believable


----------



## StevenC

Some people enjoy competitive races and seasons, but I'll never get tired of seeing Lewis embarrass people on a Saturday.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Some people enjoy competitive races and seasons, but I'll never get tired of seeing Lewis embarrass people on a Saturday.


Couldn't agree more. I get that the race is where it counts blah blah, but watching a man drive an upsidedown aeroplane on wheels over one lap THAT MUCH QUICKER than everone else is


----------



## r33per

Also, Haas: not quite FTW but great effort.


----------



## StevenC

Calling it now. KMagz driver of the day.

Edit: dammit


----------



## TheTrooper

While I was watching it I couldn't believe that Ferrari actually had luck with the VSC for once. 
Redbull wasn't that impressive to be honest, I expected more.
Gutted for Haas......but it happens, hopefully they can keep up with the pace.

Melbourne it's always the strange race, nothing happens "on track", Bahrain will be a different story.


----------



## StevenC

I really enjoyed the week of build up for "can Max win the race", including "Max could have qualified P2" followed by "will max be able to pass the Ferraris and Hamilton into T1", just for him to get stuck behind Magnussen and thoroughly unsettled. Yeah, gutted for Haas. Hopefully not a Sauber Melbourne 2015 deal, but I think that car is actually quite good.

It's quite clear that over all the Mercedes is still the car to beat. Unlike last year there are no doubts that it's the fastest race car and fastest qualifying car. Seems to follow better as well, just impossible to overtake in Melbourne. And yeah, Ferrari were due fortune on the VSC.

Most years I feel like if Melbourne weren't the first race I wouldn't get up to watch it live at 6am. Very rarely an exciting race and very hard for anything to happen. The replay was on at work today and despite 20+ laps of the top ten being bunched together ready for action, I don't think there was a single move and I think it was a hard race to watch if you knew the result.


----------



## r33per

Got to admit, folks: race ruined by safety car. Yes, Ferrari got it "right" this time but just like when they didn't and someone else did, it's still a farce.

Safety car out? Pit lane closed. Need to enter the pits under safety car conditions? Automatic retirement from the race.

DC was right in the C4 pre-highlights blurb: the rule book is full of stuff that needs cleared out. Maybe with Ross B it'll get there, but the formula feels broken.

Felt for Hamilton, Raikkonen, Haas. A well done to Alonso and Leclerc.


----------



## TheTrooper

38 laps on Soft tyres.
Ok.


----------



## StevenC

I was convinced we were going to get Austria 2016 all over again.

I'm interested to hear what penalty Ferrari get for that unsafe release.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I was convinced we were going to get Austria 2016 all over again.
> 
> I'm interested to hear what penalty Ferrari get for that unsafe release.


50.000€
Hope the guy can recover well, You can see his leg bending weirdly in the video (he broke 2 bones)


----------



## StevenC

Beyond Ferrari...

Incredible job from Gasly and at the end "We can fight!" Really gave it to Alonso. Hartley nowhere to be seen.

Brilliant job from KMagz, Grosjean nowhere to be seen.

I'm still pretty sure Ericsson has another stop to make, right? 9th can't be right.

Also, that triple overtake from Lewis!

Terrific performances throughout the grid, hard to pick Driver of the Day but Pierre is deserving as any of them. He'll do great in Red Bull next year.


----------



## TheTrooper

Nice upgrade by Honda, that engine is something now; wonder If Gasly was the only one with the new engine(?)

KMag, always great, Don't know why Romain didn't let him go, he even had a LOT of damage on the car.

The Triple overtake was amazing, that was a really good race, like proper good.


----------



## r33per

Really enjoyed that one. Here's to more like it.

Also: Max who? 

Gutted for Ricciardo, an all too frequent feeling


----------



## StevenC

It's time to admit Max is a bad driver.


----------



## Dayviewer

I'm a Dutch F1 fan and goddamn have I been surprised and annoyed by what he's been doing this season 
Every time he's going for a gap I already start to cringe because he's taking too much risk.
Anyway, Ricciardo was a friggin' delight today, loved it! I really like how unpredictable the midfield is as well.
I'll be going to watch the race in Catalunya in a few weeks, first time I'm ever attending an F1 race, excited!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> It's time to admit Max is a bad driver.


It's not "bad" it's just immature.
When he was trying to pass Ham on the outside I was thinking "Do you really believe a 4 time WC will let You make that move?"
The incident with Vettel it's just stupid and poor judgment, at least he apologized.

Such a slow race for 35 laps, and then BANG.
Ricciardo is a legend, unbelievable overtakes.


----------



## StevenC

I just feel like if someone like Daniil Kvyat, who was getting the most out of the cars he was given, had three races like Max has had, costing the team points, he'd have been booted out. He may only be 20, but he's running out of time to still get away with "young and immature". This is his fourth season. Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel all had a championship by the end of their fourth season, so inexperience isn't an excuse. You don't get time to grow up in F1, Kvyat was 21 when Red Bull began getting rid of him.

This was a terrific race, though! Well done to Danny on a great drive.


----------



## r33per

Aye, great race. Delighted for DR, Red Bull and the championship!


----------



## Mathemagician

Ok, so as someone that thinks F1 cars are awesome. What’s the best way to get into watching F1? (In the US if that matters).


----------



## StevenC

The races are on ESPN if you want to watch the races. This year F1 has been doing great with their youtube channel, with good highlight reels of each race and for standout drivers.


----------



## StevenC

Apparently the MGU-H has been killed for 2021. Between that and Sky's exclusive rights to the coverage beginning next year, I'll find it easy to stop watching.


----------



## StevenC

Well done Baku!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Well done Baku!


Very well done Baku!


----------



## StevenC

If they really wanted to promote overtaking and level the playing field, they should just run 20 races a year in Baku.


----------



## SD83

First race this season I could watch, definitly entertaining. Especially with that last safety car. I have to say though, you'd have to pay me a whole lot of extra money to drive in the same team as Verstappen. Who knows, Ricciardo might even have caught up to Bottas had Verstappen let him pass... it's OK if you do all you can to keep another driver behind you, maybe even to the point where you risk a crash, but if that other driver is your teammate (who also happens to be ahead of you in the drivers championship)... no way. Just tell him "Max, our backup driver will do the next two races, so you have a few weeks off. Use that time  " On the other hand, without those two crashing, we wouldn't have gotten that kind of finish


----------



## StevenC

That's one way to do it I suppose


----------



## StevenC

The Spanish Grand Prix will never be an exciting race.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> The Spanish Grand Prix will never be an exciting race.


I slept.
Seriously, boring AF.


----------



## StevenC

Did you guys see the F2 crash where the Halo did its job?


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Did you guys see the F2 crash where the Halo did its job?


Yep, that was a strange accident


----------



## r33per

Oh it is so Ricciardo for the win today. Really hope so, if I'm honest.

Max: sack. Kvyat was let go for less.


----------



## StevenC

Daniel can't even have a boring easy win in Monaco!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Daniel can't even have a boring easy win in Monaco!


I know! Delighted for him. Snoozefest, but unless there is rain or people start pinging off the track, that's Monte Carlo.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah, pretty slow race, but all in all, happy for DannyRic.
He was incredible, surely he's getting a new contract with RB, no chance they let him go.
Verstappen.......I mean, great driver, but without that stupid error, RB would've been 1-2.


----------



## bulb

Okay, the Aero is officially becoming a problem when the Canadian GP, even with a 3rd DRS zone basically has no overtaking. Pretty boring and uneventful race after the start, top 3 team domination again, and the 1 stop becoming the default for most teams is really not helping.

With that said, I guess it's good to see Max actually finish another race and on the podium no less. (thought the first few turns scrapping with Bottas might have been the end of it)

Speaking of Bottas, I kinda feel bad for him, he's like the best 2nd place driver out there, seems like either pace or luck are against him at all times, and he showed he could defend today where it counted.

Alonso...that's just sad, another DNF because of the damn car. If he wins in LeMans, would not be surprised to see him ditch F1 for Indy.

Pretty boring races for LH and Ricc, the only thing that switched it up was pit strategy.

Seems like between the Aero issues and the tire/fuel management these races are perhaps doomed to be a bit boring...


----------



## bulb

Oh and lol at it being a 68 lap race because of that model chick, and the stewards who totally let that happen...


----------



## TheTrooper

bulb said:


> Okay, the Aero is officially becoming a problem when the Canadian GP, even with a 3rd DRS zone basically has no overtaking. Pretty boring and uneventful race after the start, top 3 team domination again, and the 1 stop becoming the default for most teams is really not helping.
> 
> With that said, I guess it's good to see Max actually finish another race and on the podium no less. (thought the first few turns scrapping with Bottas might have been the end of it)
> 
> Speaking of Bottas, I kinda feel bad for him, he's like the best 2nd place driver out there, seems like either pace or luck are against him at all times, and he showed he could defend today where it counted.
> 
> Alonso...that's just sad, another DNF because of the damn car. If he wins in LeMans, would not be surprised to see him ditch F1 for Indy.
> 
> Pretty boring races for LH and Ricc, the only thing that switched it up was pit strategy.
> 
> Seems like between the Aero issues and the tire/fuel management these races are perhaps doomed to be a bit boring...


I had great expectation for the canadian GP, since last year (well most years) was great.
The 2011 GP was the GREATEST thing ever, but yeah, this one was boring like Monaco.

Max needs to win at least 2 races if he wants to be a contender, but the next few are Ferrari/Merc territory.
Looking forward to France, I remember the last one in 2008 at Magny Cours and it was great.
Hopefully Paul Ricard can give us some serious show.

Bottas kicked Ham butt this weekend, if he manages to win a couple of races and place on the podium with the consistency he has, I see him beating LH this year.

Alonso, my man, too much unlucky and that McLaren just isn't cutting.......so bummed for him.

The Aero is a problem, but we had great races this year....the cars are too "track sensitive" and the added weight of the Halo (really, the overall weight of the cars) isn't helping.
LH was drifting at almost every corner, as if the car is too big for these corners; next year is all another story, but I don't know how much of a difference will it be.
At least they'll have more fuel.


----------



## TheTrooper

bulb said:


> Oh and lol at it being a 68 lap race because of that model chick, and the stewards who totally let that happen...


It would've been a catastrophe if Max overtook Bottas at the 70th lap, because the classification used is taken from the lap before; wasn't the girl's falut, just wrong infos from the stewards.
Pretty funny to hear Seb on the radio with "the race isn't over" haha


----------



## StevenC

I agree with Vettel. Every year has bad races and good races. Canada 2015 was pretty shockingly boring.

The cars being unable to follow is clearly a problem, but Frank Dernie is pretty well convinced the problem is that the tyres are good giving very short braking distances. It's very clear watching a car on new vs old tyres; no matter how close they are in the previous corner the fresher tyres can pull up a lot quicker. See: Red Bulls in China.


----------



## StevenC

Red Bull officially using Honda next year


----------



## SD83

Interesting news. A year or so ago, when they were still working with McLaren, I would have considered that a horribly bad idea, but it seems to have worked for Torro Rosso for some reason, so... it might be good? Would be great to see three teams competing for the championship for some years to come.


----------



## StevenC

Also, Alonso won Le Mans 24hrs, so it's all on for the Indy 500 for the next few years I imagine.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Also, Alonso won Le Mans 24hrs, so it's all on for the Indy 500 for the next few years I imagine.


Yeah, totally. More F1 championships - perhaps even podium top spots - has passed him by, I think. Get Indy 500, get the Indy championship and the WRC - that might actually be achievable for Fernando.


----------



## StevenC

That was a much better race than I was anticipating, not just for Seb and Valtteri. Some good scraps and interesting to the end.

I think it's kinda strange that Seb keeps causing accidents where he damages another car more than his own and finishes clearly above it. This is made worse by getting driver of the day by ruining Bottas' race.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> That was a much better race than I was anticipating, not just for Seb and Valtteri. Some good scraps and interesting to the end.
> 
> I think it's kinda strange that Seb keeps causing accidents where he damages another car more than his own and finishes clearly above it. This is made worse by getting driver of the day by ruining Bottas' race.


5 seconds was nothing as a penalty, but he clearly made a mistake.
Awesome start though.


----------



## TheTrooper

Forgot we had the very 1st triple header in F1, looking forward for Austria and UK


----------



## TheTrooper

What a GP.
The best of the year


----------



## StevenC

This year has had a lot of good races.

And a lot of painful races if you like Bottas.


----------



## StevenC

This is the best season!


----------



## r33per

It is so good! What a race yesterday.


----------



## TheTrooper

This will be a classic season and we're just halfway through


----------



## r33per

I know! Really enjoying it.


----------



## 777timesgod

Just when you think Hamilton is loosing steam he jumps right back up. He definitely is one of the greats of our time. Rooting for Ferrari though to finally get a title, it has been some time since the last one.


----------



## TheTrooper

777timesgod said:


> Just when you think Hamilton is loosing steam he jumps right back up. He definitely is one of the greats of our time. Rooting for Ferrari though to finally get a title, it has been some time since the last one.


People don't like Lewis "persona", the way he present himself. (He is corny sometimes lol)
Anybody that say he is not one of the greatest, doesn't deserve to watch F1


----------



## StevenC

RIP Sergio Marchionne 

We wouldn't be having this incredible season without him


----------



## StevenC

In the turbo hybrid era Hamilton has won every pole and race that has been affected by rain, except Hungary 2014 (pitlane to 3rd), USA 2015 (qualified 2nd, won the race) and Britain 2014 (qualified 6th, won the race).


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> In the turbo hybrid era Hamilton has won every pole and race that has been affected by rain, except Hungary 2014 (pitlane to 3rd), USA 2015 (qualified 2nd, won the race) and Britain 2014 (qualified 6th, won the race).


Oh i do like F1 facts...

You tease, you!


----------



## StevenC

6 wins in Hungary, Canada and USA!


----------



## r33per

Yeah! Well, not a dramatic race (apart from VB at the end...) but great for TeamLH. Here's to a good break and to Force India sorting it out. No-one wants an 18 car grid.

I remember the mid-90s where at the end of the season a driver would have points on the board from three different teams and drivers actually didn't get to race if their qually time was rubbish because there was 26 cars allowed on the grid...


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> I remember the mid-90s where at the end of the season a driver would have points on the board from three different teams and drivers actually didn't get to race if their qually time was rubbish because there was 26 cars allowed on the grid...


This to me is a strange piece of nostalgia. Sure, back then we had 26 cars starting the race, but we didn't have many finishing the race. What, 3 cars retired this weekend? That's 17 cars racing for 305km, compared to about 12 or 13 in 1992.

Secondly, the 107% rule. Have you ever watched any of those 80s race replays where Mansell and Piquet are fighting the whole way while lapping up to 3rd place? With the exception of Williams (ironically for my point) we have one of the most competitive grids in years. Maybe the top 6 positions are locked in, but the next 4 points paying positions could reasonably go to any of 12 drivers.

Following on from that, the past few years has been the best grid of drivers probably ever. And within that tight, high quality lineup the drivers are still able to make the difference. Look at LeClerc and Magnussen compared to their teammates, or Vettel and Hamilton at the sharper end of the grid.

Finally, who else deserves a seat in F1? Buemi is the fastest man not in an F1 car, Giovinazzi will hopefully get a drive next year, Wehrlein, and maybe Norris, Russel and Albon. Kubica? Kimi should retire, Vandoorne's getting embarrassed, Hartley can go, Stroll and Sirotkin haven't shown much but that's also the Williams.

I'll take today's 20 car grid over any 90s grid.


----------



## StevenC

Ricciardo signs with... Renault?


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Ricciardo signs with... Renault?


Surely a career consigned to the midfield? Unless Renault have some amazing 2019/2020 package that will see them win races without telling one of their drivers to crash...


----------



## TheTrooper

He surely signed a 1+1 (option) deal.
Next year Renault, then, if Merc or Ferrari let go Bottas or Kimi, he has a shot at that seat.


----------



## Andromalia

> Following on from that, the past few years has been the best grid of drivers probably ever.


I'd still rate the late 70es early 80es higher. Tambay, Arnoux, Piquet, Prost, Lauda, Villeneuve, Berger, Alboreto and Senna by the late 80es. They were to today's drivers what John Mcenroe is to Novak Djokovic. Rock stars.


----------



## StevenC

Andromalia said:


> I'd still rate the late 70es early 80es higher. Tambay, Arnoux, Piquet, Prost, Lauda, Villeneuve, Berger, Alboreto and Senna by the late 80es. They were to today's drivers what John Mcenroe is to Novak Djokovic. Rock stars.


Sure, but Djokovic is way better than McEnroe ever was.

Here's a picture from when the grid was significantly weaker than it is today:


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Sure, but Djokovic is way better than McEnroe ever was.
> 
> Here's a picture from when the grid was significantly weaker than it is today:


Aw, bless: three wee bairns with Uncle Michael!


----------



## Andromalia

> Sure, but Djokovic is way better than McEnroe ever was.


Uh, guess we'll have to disagree then.

There are two ways some people can be above the competition:
-They're good
-The competition sucks
To me Djokovic is in the second case. Stopping there and not hijacking this as this isn't a tennis thread. ^^


----------



## TheTrooper

HOLY FU**ING CRAP, ALONSO WILL NOT RACE IN 2019


----------



## StevenC

Good luck chasing the Triple Crown, Nando!


----------



## StevenC

Carlos Sainz for McLaren


----------



## StevenC

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1032561679492677633

The silliest season


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1032561679492677633
> 
> The silliest season


This year was really silly Hahaha


----------



## Vostre Roy

So, Lance Stroll's father just bought (along with other people) Force India. I guess that its a safe bet to say that Lance will probably join them by next year.

Hope this won't be as disastrous as the J. Villeneuve / BAR experience which basically was his career demise


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> So, Lance Stroll's father just bought (along with other people) Force India. I guess that its a safe bet to say that Lance will probably join them by next year.
> 
> Hope this won't be as disastrous as the J. Villeneuve / BAR experience which basically was his career demise


If not sooner!

I always figured Villneuve's demise was staying in F1 past 1997.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> I always figured Villneuve's demise was staying in F1 past 1997.



Ahahah, for sure the 1998 Williams were nowhere close to be as competitive than the two previous years and BARs were basically lawnmower dressed as F1, but I admit that even then he kinda took habit of crashing any kind of car he was put behind the wheel of. As an enthusiast back then, it broke my heart to see my idol take such a plunge.

Hopefully, Strolls career will be successful. Beside Villeneuve (father and son) and Stroll, not many Canadian made much noise in the F1


----------



## StevenC

I love Spa


----------



## 777timesgod

Ferrari getting close to a title, the fact that this is a weird statement shows that we are in 2018.


----------



## r33per

Well, I don't know about you lot, but I loved that race in Monza.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Well, I don't know about you lot, but I loved that race in Monza.


This is some season so far


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> This is some season so far


Couldn't agree more. One stop races are a bit of a niggle, but there has been some great racing and races this year.

I'm calling LH for the drivers title.


----------



## TheTrooper

Kimi going to Sauber and Leclerc to Ferrari in 2019.
I wonder how the remaining races of the season will be in the Scuderia.


----------



## r33per

TheTrooper said:


> Kimi going to Sauber and Leclerc to Ferrari in 2019.
> I wonder how the remaining races of the season will be in the Scuderia.


Rumours that Kimi is also an investor in Sauber so has a stake in the team. Any truth to that?


----------



## 777timesgod

r33per said:


> Rumours that Kimi is also an investor in Sauber so has a stake in the team. Any truth to that?


Well, money is more important than anything else in F1 due to the extreme costs. We had a talented driver here in Cyprus who did great in test drives for a small F1 company a few years ago (Eftihios Ellinas). He did not become an F1 driver due to the lack of sponsors and cash...
They instead recruited drivers with much worse lap times than him, based on the money they would bring to the team. Sad but its the way things go in this sport.


----------



## StevenC

777timesgod said:


> Well, money is more important than anything else in F1 due to the extreme costs. We had a talented driver here in Cyprus who did great in test drives for a small F1 company a few years ago (Eftihios Ellinas). He did not become an F1 driver due to the lack of sponsors and cash...
> They instead recruited drivers with much worse lap times than him, based on the money they would bring to the team. Sad but its the way things go in this sport.


It sounds a lot like you're trying to say a guy whose best result to that point was 8th in GP3 deserved a race seat more than Jules Bianchi. You can't be saying that. You must be talking about Max Chilton, but the same year he came 4th in GP2.


----------



## 777timesgod

StevenC said:


> It sounds a lot like you're trying to say a guy whose best result to that point was 8th in GP3 deserved a race seat more than Jules Bianchi. You can't be saying that. You must be talking about Max Chilton, but the same year he came 4th in GP2.


He had the championship in the bag but other drivers kept crashing into him "unintentionally" race after race one year. We are talking years ago when he was new to GP3. It became a running joke as to who was going to crash into him next time. He surpassed Chilton's lap times when testing the F1 and even surpassed Raikonnen's lap time when he tested a GP3 race car, of course Kimi had little experience with the particular one but it goes to show.
Lastly, I do not remember mentioning Bianchi's name.


----------



## StevenC

777timesgod said:


> He had the championship in the bag but other drivers kept crashing into him "unintentionally" race after race one year. We are talking years ago when he was new to GP3. It became a running joke as to who was going to crash into him next time. He surpassed Chilton's lap times when testing the F1 and even surpassed Raikonnen's lap time when he tested a GP3 race car, of course Kimi had little experience with the particular one but it goes to show.
> Lastly, I do not remember mentioning Bianchi's name.


It's difficult to have a championship in the bag when you win 3 races in 2 years. Also, practice times are all but useless to anyone outside of the team, otherwise you have to acknowledge that Will Stevens was half a second faster in the Caterham, and the Caterham wasn't half a second faster than the Marussia. Finally, you said slower drivers were taken over Ellinas by Marussia. Those drivers were Chilton and Bianchi, and Bianchi's junior career is glowing compared to Ellinas.


----------



## StevenC

That was certainly the most interesting qualifying session in a long time.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> That was certainly the most interesting qualifying session in a long time.


When you are God, you just go to Pole Position.
That lap was stupidly good


----------



## ramis

What do you think about the Singapore Grand Prix?


----------



## TheTrooper

ramis said:


> What do you think about the Singapore Grand Prix?


It kinda sucked.
Removed the "kinda" above


----------



## StevenC

ramis said:


> What do you think about the Singapore Grand Prix?


It was fun watching Sirotkin's race. Perez and Grosjean need to go to an optician. Hamilton and Verstappen were fantastic. Ferrari were a bit of a joke. Have to hand it to Mercedes and Hamilton for fixing their Singapore problem, dominating the whole race and qualifying for the first time in the turbo hybrid era, despite coming into the weekend expecting damage control. Seb got very lucky that Bottas couldn't get past Hulk, that could have been an interesting fight. All credit for making those tyres work for so many laps.

Altogether a quiet race with some great drives.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> It was fun watching Sirotkin's race. Perez and Grosjean need to go to an optician. Hamilton and Verstappen were fantastic. Ferrari were a bit of a joke. Have to hand it to Mercedes and Hamilton for fixing their Singapore problem, dominating the whole race and qualifying for the first time in the turbo hybrid era, despite coming into the weekend expecting damage control. Seb got very lucky that Bottas couldn't get past Hulk, that could have been an interesting fight. All credit for making those tyres work for so many laps.
> 
> Altogether a quiet race with some great drives.


Correct, excluding Sirotkin defending from Perez nothing really happened.
What do you guys think, will Ferrari and Vettel reclaim the lead or it's over?


----------



## StevenC

If Mercedes can win in Singapore I don't think there's any bad tracks for them. Given reliability we'll get to see a good fight to the end.

Did you guys see the new wheel drum Mercedes used to reportedly fix their rear tyre issues? Sure Hamilton destroyed everyone, but Bottas was very close to Vettel in qualifying.


----------



## StevenC

Really happy for Kvyat, deserves another go. From his interviews it doesn't sound like he has the regular RB junior driver contract this time, but something a bit more stable. Also Marko saying Kvyat broke the news to them about Ricciardo going to Renault is amazing, Daniel clearly wasn't happy with them.


----------



## StevenC

Well, that podium had a very Austria 2002 feel to it. Ferrari weren't very good today, good move from Hamilton on Vettel. The Ultrasoft was a pretty rubbish tyre as well, great pace from Verstappen until he had to use it.


----------



## TheTrooper

I think both Championships are wrapped up, really really hard to see a huge comeback from Ferrari (would like that, nice fight 'till the last race) but never say never.
I must say, this time, it was a pretty good Russian GP.


----------



## StevenC

At this point I'm very interested to see if Lewis can break his post championship winless streak if he clinches it before Abu Dhabi. It'd also be a hell of a turnaround if Lewis could beat his most wins in a season, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.


----------



## r33per

It was a weird podium. Kinda conflicted about it, but ultimately championship contender needs all the points possible at this...point in the season.

Monza, that lap in Singapore and the move on Vettel, all combined with 8 wins so far: you'd be forgiven for thinking LH and Merc have dominated this season, but that's not the story. It's going to take something catastrophic for Ferrari/Seb to claw this one back.


----------



## r33per

So, how long does Maurizio have left in his job?


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> So, how long does Maurizio have left in his job?


I think they already hired his replacement, somebody from the FIA, and Ferrari mentioned him stepping down last season. I give him 4 more races.


----------



## TheTrooper

Yeah, I don't know how much he will last.
Not much at this rate though


----------



## StevenC

George Russell to Williams, excellent!


----------



## r33per

W Series. Mixed opinions about this one. Delighted to have women encouraged in the sport literally in the driving seat, but only to get the cash? Isn't that what family after family of racing drivers have worked three jobs and sacrificed so much for to see come to pass? Am i just that naive about "male dominated"?

What about the hundreds of other positions in an F1 team: will they have their own series as well?


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> W Series. Mixed opinions about this one. Delighted to have women encouraged in the sport literally in the driving seat, but only to get the cash? Isn't that what family after family of racing drivers have worked three jobs and sacrificed so much for to see come to pass? Am i just that naive about "male dominated"?
> 
> What about the hundreds of other positions in an F1 team: will they have their own series as well?


I agree with you on the one hand, and I disagree in principle with anything Carmen Jorda backs. If this were F1W I'd be 100% against it. The fact is these are F3 cars and there just aren't any women getting chances in motorsports. At F3 level it can't hurt, it's not like women's football, or WNBA, where they can't physically compete, it's much more an opportunity thing I think.

As to the other F1 related jobs, I'd point you to what Susie Wolff and Claire Williams are doing to promote women in F1 teams, and I'd point to the global push for women in STEM subjects. Contrary to most racing grids, however, there are women up and down the pit wall and paddock. Claire Williams and Ruth Buscombe are pretty big names. The only strategist better known than Ruth might be James Vowles because we've heard so much from him this year.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Contrary to most racing grids, however, there are women up and down the pit wall and paddock. Claire Williams and Ruth Buscombe are pretty big names. The only strategist better known than Ruth might be James Vowles because we've heard so much from him this year.


That's true, actually. Just going by the TV coverage, there has been a notable increase in the number of woman on the pit wall, on the pit crew and in the mechanics team in the 2018 season.

I guess my issue is less about the W series and perhaps more that this is the situation. A driver should be in F1 if they have the capability, doesn't matter if they are a young lad or lass. I'm well aware that is a pretty basic, binary view on it and misses all the nuances and politics of how someone lands a spot in one out of 20 seats, but i can't help that.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> That's true, actually. Just going by the TV coverage, there has been a notable increase in the number of woman on the pit wall, on the pit crew and in the mechanics team in the 2018 season.
> 
> I guess my issue is less about the W series and perhaps more that this is the situation. A driver should be in F1 if they have the capability, doesn't matter if they are a young lad or lass. I'm well aware that is a pretty basic, binary view on it and misses all the nuances and politics of how someone lands a spot in one out of 20 seats, but i can't help that.


Yeah, it would be great if F1 seats and F2 seats were handed out based on merit alone. coughRaikkonencough


----------



## r33per

Hammer Time! As my two year old nephew shouted at Silverstone last year: Come on, Lewis!


----------



## StevenC

Looks slippery out there today, may not be good for Ferrari.


----------



## StevenC

Fuck's sake! Well done Kimi, most successful Finnish driver!


----------



## StevenC

Oops, I think I forgot something...

WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Oops, I think I forgot something...
> 
> WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!


----------



## StevenC

Verstappen needs to cool it or he won't be able to compete with the big boys long term.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Verstappen needs to cool it or he won't be able to compete with the big boys long term.


Absolutely. He started in F1 too early. If he's not careful, Leclerc and the rest of the new breed will pass him by because they behave with a class and a maturity that enhances their driving.

Plus no-one likes working with a hot head prima donna, no matter how good they are. I'm sure the film industry can tell us that...


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Absolutely. He started in F1 too early. If he's not careful, Leclerc and the rest of the new breed will pass him by because they behave with a class and a maturity that enhances their driving.
> 
> Plus no-one likes working with a hot head prima donna, no matter how good they are. I'm sure the film industry can tell us that...


Max is no doubt incredibly fast, and it was looking like he'd figured out the making mature decisions bit of racing too. Guess we'll have to wait for that, but until then I don't see how he'd beat Hamilton over a season without a strong car advantage.


----------



## StevenC

Robert Kubica to race for Williams next year!


----------



## r33per

Well, that's that. Really enjoyed this season and really looking forward to 2019, what with all the personnel changes.


----------



## StevenC

3 cars launched means it's definitely the new season!!!

First the Haas VF-19






The Toro Rosso STR14






And the Williams HT7 Pro






Err, I mean the Williams FW42


----------



## bulb

Love the HAAS! Looks like a lotus!
Toro Rosso looks about the same.

Damn Williams, I love that!! At least now I won’t confuse them and Saub...I mean Alfa.


----------



## StevenC

Renault RS19






Still looks a year behind the front runners. Maybe they'll catch up in 2021.


----------



## Dayviewer

Digging the Haas a lot more compared to previous liveries, has a bit more character.
Tomorrow we got 3 more coming with Mercedes, Red Bull, and Racing Point.
RB is rumored to go with a lot more white this year which I would like, a red/white/blue would go nicely with both Dutch and French flags from the drivers, let's see what happens though!


----------



## TheTrooper

I wanna the Merc
I wanna the Merc
I wanna the Merc


----------



## StevenC




----------



## StevenC

And the rest

Racing Point





McLaren





Alfa Romeo





Ferrari





The Italian teams have a very interesting front wing concept for lots of outwash, and the Ferrari's airbox and engine packaging is very interesting.


----------



## TheTrooper

Jeez Williams.
What the hell happened?


----------



## r33per

I mean, it's not great, is it...


----------



## TheTrooper

Wow, Lowe was fired from Williams!
That's heavy


----------



## StevenC

Anyone watching the Netflix series? You can tell it's by the same people as Senna.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Anyone watching the Netflix series? You can tell it's by the same people as Senna.


I started yesterday and so far so good, It's very well made; good insights as far as race weekends goes


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> I started yesterday and so far so good, It's very well made; good insights as far as race weekends goes


I watched the first 3 episodes and won't be watching anymore. Very well edited to push whatever narrative they were after from moment to moment. Very little focus on the results or the championship. Making things up, fake commentary. Basically no race footage and no technical coverage.

This would all be well and good as it seems to be aimed at casual or new fans, but they gutted half of the content from the 2018 Official Review for... this?


----------



## Dayviewer

It's confirmed that for this season on drivers will get a point for having the fastest lap in the race.
I think that's gonna give some really cool strategic scenarios in the later sections in the race, it's gonna be a blast in the midfield for sure.

Looking forward to the weekend! Already warned my GF for the alarm clock going off at 6 in the morning


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

StevenC said:


> Anyone watching the Netflix series? You can tell it's by the same people as Senna.



Yup, almost done - very well done. Loved the Grosjean episode as i've always had soft spot for him, probably since he gets alot of crap. would love to see him and Kvyat have great seasons this year. Almost there! 

BTW, MotoGP was killer last weekend (it often is). If anyone likes F1 but has not discovered MotoGP, the racing is almost always much much more intense (but i still look forward to F1 the most). First race last week, Moto3 and MotoGP had me making weird noises out loud in my recliner.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I watched the first 3 episodes and won't be watching anymore. Very well edited to push whatever narrative they were after from moment to moment. Very little focus on the results or the championship. Making things up, fake commentary. Basically no race footage and no technical coverage.
> 
> This would all be well and good as it seems to be aimed at casual or new fans, but they gutted half of the content from the 2018 Official Review for... this?


Yeah, I see it as a "TV series" like Braking Bad or GoT, not has an actual source of infos.
I like it, it's well written; Ferrari and Mercedes refrained from giving collab for the project, that's why it does not follow the championship; it's also why it jump and goes back from different races without following their actual order.

Just look at it as a TV show and not an actual review; I also believe it is aimed towards new fans, that's why it's a dramatized version of the season.


----------



## TheTrooper

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Yup, almost done - very well done. Loved the Grosjean episode as i've always had soft spot for him, probably since he gets alot of crap. would love to see him and Kvyat have great seasons this year. Almost there!
> 
> BTW, MotoGP was killer last weekend (it often is). If anyone likes F1 but has not discovered MotoGP, the racing is almost always much much more intense (but i still look forward to F1 the most). First race last week, Moto3 and MotoGP had me making weird noises out loud in my recliner.


MotoGP is cool, races have been like that for a while now, but we all know Marquez will probably win again.


----------



## TheTrooper

Also, what pissed me off from the Ricciardo episode is that they didn't put any footage from the Chines GP.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Yeah, I see it as a "TV series" like Braking Bad or GoT, not has an actual source of infos.
> I like it, it's well written; Ferrari and Mercedes refrained from giving collab for the project, that's why it does not follow the championship; it's also why it jump and goes back from different races without following their actual order.
> 
> Just look at it as a TV show and not an actual review; I also believe it is aimed towards new fans, that's why it's a dramatized version of the season.


Yeah, you're right about all that stuff and I agree with you. I stopped watching because that doesn't appeal to me. 

What does appeal to me is the Official Season Review, which this year is half the length of previous ones and has none of the bonus content, despite being the same price. Which everyone seems to agree was probably because of the Netflix show.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

TheTrooper said:


> MotoGP is cool, races have been like that for a while now, but we all know Marquez will probably win again.



Yeah i believe you are right on Marquez, unless Dovi can steal a few more wins this year. I root for Rossi (among others) but looking like more of the same for Yamaha this year. That Japanese rider that won in Moto3 has my attention, i could root for him


----------



## StevenC

Wow, Charlie Whiting died. RIP.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Wow, Charlie Whiting died. RIP.


That sucks big time, can't believe it


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Wow, Charlie Whiting died. RIP.


Yep, shocker.

Vettel looked visibly upset at the press conference this morning. Not surprised.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

RIP Charlie Whiting. Looking forward to practice tonight for sure.

Anyone else in the US plan to stay up til 3am saturday night?


----------



## StevenC

Wow! Some good laps from Mercedes!

This all looks very interesting.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea good ol' Mercedes putting in the laps again 
I do hope Ferrari and RB are a little closer to them in race pace though, we'll see tomorrow.
And if not, it looks like there's a LOT of fun to be had in the midfield, very close pack this year, love it!


----------



## TheTrooper

You've got to be here and see every comment of my italian compatriots : "And We'll win the WC next year, again" "Vettel can't drive" "You replaced the wrong driver, Ferrari" "Leclerc can't drive" "Mercedes is using tyres specifically made for them" "Verstappen will crash into the Ferraris tomorrow"

That's what I really really missed about F1: italians complaining


----------



## Dayviewer

Hahaha, well the Dutch are something to behold here as well, my gawd 
'The gap to Merc is a 10th bigger compared to last year, Honda sucks', 'They had to replace the chassis from Max before FP3, absolute shite planning, RB is failing once again' 'Gasly will be replaced by the summer break'


----------



## Dayviewer

Well, if there is one Merc being dominant I’m completely fine with this at the moment, holy shit  well done to Valtteri! 
Happy for Max/Honda, sad for Dani and Grossjean, slightly dissapointed with Gasly.
On to the next


----------



## Dayviewer

Oh, and I completely forgot about Williams, I mean eh, who?
PLEASE get it together Claire.
I guess Stroll is extra happy to have left them as well, scoring points and outperforming Perez, good job there too.


----------



## TheTrooper

My Sky decoder is broken (Yea, there is no god, I know) and couldn't watch the race live, but will in a couple of hours.
Saw the highlights and yeah, VB pretty impressive, Verstappen did a very good job, but Ferrari......the shit hit the fan I'm afraid (in this race at least)


----------



## StevenC

Woke up early and enjoyed the race this morning. Great job from Bottas and Mercedes, really curious what happened to Ferrari. I'm sure Lewis will win Melbourne sometime... 

Never trust testing.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yes Leclerc, yes 
Good job to Mclaren too.
Looking forward to tomorrow, Ferrari can be interesting in the first corner


----------



## StevenC

I'm not going to root for Ferrari but I will cheer for my man Chuck!


----------



## TheTrooper

This race was really really good, it had EVERYTHING.
Sorry for Ferrari but we all know: "To finish first, You first have to finish"


----------



## StevenC

What did I just watch twice back to back?!

Really strange race today from Ferrari. On one hand you had Charles with all the pace in the world, but the car fails him in the end. On the other you have Seb who couldn't even keep up with Lewis in the slower car.

Really feel sorry for for Charles, but you can see his maturity in the way he took it. Surely everyone has to be a fan? Also, Lewis showing a lot of humility after the win and his conversations with Charles. I hope we're in for a good season between the two!

And of course...


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Great race today. Major action especially first half. Sucked seeing Grosjean get nailed on first lap as i do root for him. Cool seeing McLaren and Norris looking competitive.

Glad to see Lewis get his first win as well, but damn shame about LeClerc...he did deserve to win. I think we are going to have another top rate 1-2 team battle, but possibly all 4 drivers involved in the drivers championship this time.

MotoGP was pretty good today as well...great battle from 2nd to 6th or so, and a podium from a rider ive been missing up there (no spoilers)


----------



## StevenC

Just saw the onboard from Leclerc with the team orders. "Stay there for 2 laps" and then he just breezes past Seb on the straight. He clearly wasn't going to take that two weeks in a row.


----------



## bulb

Man that race was awesome. Good to see that some of the changes for 2019 are less knee jerk reactions and actually seem to be making a difference. So many battles, and a really damn tight midfield.

Poor Harry Potter...


----------



## TheTrooper

bulb said:


> Man that race was awesome. Good to see that some of the changes for 2019 are less knee jerk reactions and actually seem to be making a difference. So many battles, and a really damn tight midfield.
> 
> Poor Harry Potter...


So it's not just me who thinks Charles looks like HP.
Interesting.


----------



## bulb

He should have used the force to fix his mgu-k


----------



## TheTrooper

bulb said:


> He should have used the force to fix his mgu-k


They actually said it was one of the cilinder in the ICE misfiring, that's why he had no H recovery (from the hot gas) and problems with the fuel.
He would'have been in P2 if he didn't have to do fuel saving for the last laps.

I'm pretty sorry for Renault too really, both car stopping on the last laps at the same time is just cruel.


----------



## Dayviewer

God this was a boring race


----------



## StevenC

This has been an unbelievably confusing season.


----------



## TheTrooper

Dayviewer said:


> God this was a boring race


This was easily the worst race I've ever seen in a while.
Hope Baku will do his magic.


----------



## TheTrooper

Look guys, I might have a wrong impression, but listening to Vet team radios and comments, I get that they know what they need to improve and that this improvement is coming.
In the last team radio of the Chinese GP he is saying (in italian) "The car is coming" (like "we have it, just needs the final tweak):
Did you get the same feeling?


----------



## r33per

So... traffic warning cones on the straights in Baku this weekend?


----------



## TheTrooper

This track is so damn good.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> This track is so damn good.


Remember back in 2016 when they somehow had the most boring race possible, and everyone was saying it was a terrible track because they hadn't watched the GP2 races?


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Remember back in 2016 when they somehow had the most boring race possible, and everyone was saying it was a terrible track because they hadn't watched the GP2 races?


Them were strange times...


----------



## TheTrooper

Wow.
That sucked.


----------



## StevenC

Ok, I think it's swung back the other way and we've built Baku up to more than it can be.


----------



## TheTrooper

Not impressed with this season as of now, hopefully something will change


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Not impressed with this season as of now, hopefully something will change


I disagree. I've been fairly entertained by all the races so far. Bahrain was an absolute classic. And while from a standpoint of what actually happened, Baku wasn't that exciting, it was quite tense and engaging. Watching to see what Leclerc would do, waiting any second for a crash, wondering why Leclerc still hasn't pitted, wondering why Vettel has no pace relative to his teammate, wondering why Ferrari let Leclerc sit in front of Vettel for so long, wondering why they pitted a second time in Baku and not in Melbourne, the will they won't they with Hamilton and Bottas, and finally wondering why Ferrari seems to hate their new driver.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I disagree. I've been fairly entertained by all the races so far. Bahrain was an absolute classic. And while from a standpoint of what actually happened, Baku wasn't that exciting, it was quite tense and engaging. Watching to see what Leclerc would do, waiting any second for a crash, wondering why Leclerc still hasn't pitted, wondering why Vettel has no pace relative to his teammate, wondering why Ferrari let Leclerc sit in front of Vettel for so long, wondering why they pitted a second time in Baku and not in Melbourne, the will they won't they with Hamilton and Bottas, and finally wondering why Ferrari seems to hate their new driver.


Yeah but all of that can be explained with: "Mercedes is Mercedes and Ferrari is Ferrari"

I expected a much closer season up to this point already, and other that Bahrain the other races have been meh.
I get the "tense" races, but I'm kinda over that, I actually want to see fighting.


----------



## TheTrooper

My two cents after the Spanish GP.

The Good: Mercedes, RedBull.

After the 5th 1-2, I want to see a full perfect season of 1-2s.
Max and RB are doing quite the good job, kudos to both teams.

The Bad: Ferrari.

It ain't working, sorry.
This year the car is no good, just like 2019.
They can do a good car for 1-2 years and make sh?t the following year.

The Ugly: Renault; F1.
The biggest delusion is Renault, because the car is a dog.
Sorry for Ricciardo that picked the worst year possible to join the team.

The races are also crap.
If it wasn't for the SC, I would've been asleep.
You get 2 good years of racing after a rules change, but it gets stale on the 3rd.

This Sport needs the budget cap.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> My two cents after the Spanish GP.
> 
> The Good: Mercedes, RedBull.
> 
> After the 5th 1-2, I want to see a full perfect season of 1-2s.
> Max and RB are doing quite the good job, kudos to both teams.
> 
> The Bad: Ferrari.
> 
> It ain't working, sorry.
> This year the car is no good, just like 2019.
> They can do a good car for 1-2 years and make sh?t the following year.
> 
> The Ugly: Renault; F1.
> The biggest delusion is Renault, because the car is a dog.
> Sorry for Ricciardo that picked the worst year possible to join the team.
> 
> The races are also crap.
> If it wasn't for the SC, I would've been asleep.
> You get 2 good years of racing after a rules change, but it gets stale on the 3rd.
> 
> This Sport needs the budget cap.


I'd add Gasly to the bad. He's just not where he needs to be in that car. Max has some trophies now from the RB15 and Gasly's best finish has been 6th, which might as well be last for Red Bull.

For what it's worth the current form of the grid seems to because of regulation changes. Ferrari getting it wrong with their car and the tyres being so troublesome for all of the teams. Red Bull lots a lot of ground from the new front wing regs, too. We haven't had stable regulations since 2015/2016 what with the massive 2017 changes, the Halo/fins/t-wing regs for 2018 and now the front wing and bargeboard changes of 2019. 

Usually stable regulations cause a convergence of the grid after a few years, but we just haven't had that for a long time in F1. Other than the engines, the early to late 2000s was the most recent stretch of stability in regulations which did lead to a good amount of competition, but also happened at a time when CFD was becoming such a huge part of the sport and unbalancing the grid. All the nose, diffuser and exhaust change between 2009 and 2013 kept throwing the grid around behind Red Bull, and to the FIA's surprise the changes between 2014 and now have just shuffled the grid around behind Mercedes. 

The grid was getting very competitive in 2016 until the whole thing was needlessly overhauled. Even now the battle between 7th and 18th is incredibly close. The main competition issue now is Renault/Honda still not making a top engine, and Red Bull/Ferrari not being able to beat Mercedes the rest of the time. Mercedes didn't always have the best chassis the past two years, but the new regulations have thrown Red Bull and Ferrari off and the result is 5 1-2s in a row.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I'd add Gasly to the bad. He's just not where he needs to be in that car. Max has some trophies now from the RB15 and Gasly's best finish has been 6th, which might as well be last for Red Bull.
> 
> For what it's worth the current form of the grid seems to because of regulation changes. Ferrari getting it wrong with their car and the tyres being so troublesome for all of the teams. Red Bull lots a lot of ground from the new front wing regs, too. We haven't had stable regulations since 2015/2016 what with the massive 2017 changes, the Halo/fins/t-wing regs for 2018 and now the front wing and bargeboard changes of 2019.
> 
> Usually stable regulations cause a convergence of the grid after a few years, but we just haven't had that for a long time in F1. Other than the engines, the early to late 2000s was the most recent stretch of stability in regulations which did lead to a good amount of competition, but also happened at a time when CFD was becoming such a huge part of the sport and unbalancing the grid. All the nose, diffuser and exhaust change between 2009 and 2013 kept throwing the grid around behind Red Bull, and to the FIA's surprise the changes between 2014 and now have just shuffled the grid around behind Mercedes.
> 
> The grid was getting very competitive in 2016 until the whole thing was needlessly overhauled. Even now the battle between 7th and 18th is incredibly close. The main competition issue now is Renault/Honda still not making a top engine, and Red Bull/Ferrari not being able to beat Mercedes the rest of the time. Mercedes didn't always have the best chassis the past two years, but the new regulations have thrown Red Bull and Ferrari off and the result is 5 1-2s in a row.


What I think is: the Ferrari is not a bad car.
The Mercedes is just better.
Pre season test, the Ferrari was probably quicker, but as the ex-spokesman in Ferrari (Antonini) said in an (italia) online blog/newspaper/f1 thing: The cars go through different stages before Melbourne, like T1 T2 T3 (Ex.)
The Mercedes had potential to be better, the Ferrari didn't.
Maybe it's related to mechanical choices, but the Mercedes can improve upon it's "base form" while the Ferrari can't.


----------



## Dayviewer

It's been announced that next year we shall race on the track of my people, Zandvoort! 

I come here every year for an event for classic race cars and it's a great little track with some cool height differences in a beautifull location, surely a challenge for the drivers!
HOWEVER, god it's narrow  and the facilities are far from being up to standards, I was at Barcelona last year and it just doesn't compare in any way haha.
They did mention they are going to do improvements on both of these though, so I'm very interested to see how it will pan out.
Some parts of the track are being widened a bit and one of them will be changed a little to improve the flow for more speed through it.

All in all I'm cautiously excited  But I'm definitely not attending the first time round as I'm organization will not be as smooth as you'd like to be.


----------



## StevenC

Is Zandvoort the one that's only got one road to and from? I feel like my might have a repeat of last year's French Grand Prix. Wonder where they'll put the grandstands. I'm happy Max and the Dutch are getting a Grand Prix again, but I don't think Liberty understood what people meant about historic European races.


----------



## Dayviewer

2 roads which mainly run through smaller towns, and a small train station, so nonetheless it will be very packed and pretty much the same scenario I think.
The organization is very aware of this though and they are setting up all kinds of plans for public transport and bike services which is so typical Dutch but it's actually doable haha.

I do think Liberty very much understood but they just picked a track that wasn't the peoples first choice (like a San Marino for example), I get it isn't up to modern standards and a bit narrow, but isn't that with some of the other tracks too?
The main reasoning they went with this is obviously all the Dutch hype which is getting bigger every year, which is understandable.

I'm not disagreeing with you completely though I do agree some other old tracks could have been brought back earlier, San Marino being one of them.
I'd personaly be a big fan of seeing Kyalami return, it might be outside of Europe but it's an old track with some history behind it, and it'd be cool to have a race in that region as well.


----------



## TheTrooper

Dayviewer said:


> 2 roads which mainly run through smaller towns, and a small train station, so nonetheless it will be very packed and pretty much the same scenario I think.
> The organization is very aware of this though and they are setting up all kinds of plans for public transport and bike services which is so typical Dutch but it's actually doable haha.
> 
> I do think Liberty very much understood but they just picked a track that wasn't the peoples first choice (like a San Marino for example), I get it isn't up to modern standards and a bit narrow, but isn't that with some of the other tracks too?
> The main reasoning they went with this is obviously all the Dutch hype which is getting bigger every year, which is understandable.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you completely though I do agree some other old tracks could have been brought back earlier, San Marino being one of them.
> I'd personaly be a big fan of seeing Kyalami return, it might be outside of Europe but it's an old track with some history behind it, and it'd be cool to have a race in that region as well.



I will be in Zandvoort next year, for sure.
San Marino has some problems with the track and resources, and it's narrow too (been there in '06)


----------



## Dayviewer

TheTrooper said:


> I will be in Zandvoort next year, for sure.


Cool I hope you'll enjoy it! It's a beautiful place.
Do keep on eye out on accomodations etc, prices in the area are already skyrocketing, it's pretty insane, but I'm sure a lot of transportation options will come into play from other areas.


----------



## StevenC

Alonso didn't look great in qualifying for the Indy 500 today. He might not make it to the grid at all...


----------



## StevenC

RIP Niki


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> RIP Niki


Always feels weird "liking" an RIP post. However, I'm with you.
Quite possibly the definitive sporting comeback story.


----------



## TheTrooper

Huge loss for all of motorsport.
He was something else, honest and no PR bullshit, straight to the point.
F1 needed someone like him.


----------



## StevenC

Come on Ferrari... You're not going to win anything starting in 16th with one of your drivers.


----------



## r33per

Aye. That qually was a snapshot of the season so far:
Merc out in front
Ferrari small mistakes, big losses
Verstapen consistency
Gasly rookie error
Magnesun qually performance good
Williams also ran


----------



## StevenC

I think I've figured Ferrari out. They've built the car more to Seb's driving style. They've clearly strengthened every single part of the car to absorb crashes. Did you see the way he just bounced off the walls? Evidently this extra weight has cost the car some speed.

However, Ferrari are smarter than that! They've figured out that it was all the incidents last year that cost them the championship. Now they won't lose any points in crashes and can cruise to championship number 16.


----------



## r33per

What. A. Race.


----------



## gartzn

Ferrari last year had a wining car and lost by their mistakes. And this year I don't think they have such a good car, and they are pushing more in other aspects, and that is causing silly mistakes, like the qualy one. I wouldn't like to be in Ferrari right now!


----------



## StevenC

Guess I know who I'm supporting this weekend.


----------



## StevenC

That was certainly an evening's entertainment!

Penalty was a bit harsh, but the way Seb deals with these things is unbecoming of a 4x WDC. Especially after all this time: "When did I do dangerous driving" "I have a message for Charlie". Also, Seb gets DotD for doing what Lewis does in most races but adds a little spin.

Very good race otherwise. Great drives from Max, Daniel and Nico. Daniel should have been DotD. Gasly needs to go. Lance has another great run here. Bottas was all over the place this weekend.

(I will now stop complaining about Baku 2017.)


----------



## r33per

Leclerc also ran.

Penalty ruined it for me. I'm a total LH fanboy, but that was not penalty worth IMHO.

Other than that, good hunting today. Agree with you re: Gasly. Should have had Stroll (who drove well today).

KMag's attitude was a disgrace. Don't want to drive a pig of a car? Don't smash it into the wall less than 24 hours before the race forcing your mechanics to go through a rebuild all night just to get you on the grid. Petulant, stroppy teenager.


----------



## TheTrooper

The Stewards in race direction (whatever they're called) should get a pretty severe spread of cancer in their family/friends/relatives.
Unbelievable.


----------



## Dayviewer

Although I get why the penalty was given on the other hand they just should’ve let it slide this one damn time.
Why? We all know Mercedes is gonna win both titles again this year anyway, just allow somebody else a moment for once, jezus christ.
The roaring crowd already said enough when Vettel clinched pole and I was so happy and excited too.
And then this happens, it ain’t fun anymore.


----------



## StevenC

I think Marc's take on this is pretty dead on.


----------



## StevenC

I feel like Gasly needs to go very soon. Verstappen came 4th and he couldn't even score points. I'm starting to really wonder about how bad Hartley was last year and how good the Toro Rosso was. Probably could have won in Bahrain 2018 with a competent driver.

Dominant drive for Lewis, really shows the worst of the point for fastest lap. Valtteri can't be finishing 17 seconds behind, but only a second in front of a Ferrari without an issue. Good job from Charles; Max and Seb seemed to have the positions locked in from the start. Very interesting race behind with the McLarens, Renaults and Kimi. Going to have to watch that a few more times between Norris and Daniel.

Promote Daniil already!


----------



## r33per

Start.
Sleep.
Halfway through the last lap: things are happening!
Chequered flag.

Sky commentary team on Perez incident be like:


----------



## TheTrooper

This season is bad.
I don't see how it could go any more to shit, but I'm sure we'll find out.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> This season is bad.
> I don't see how it could go any more to shit, but I'm sure we'll find out.


The way I see it, the worst possible end would be if Mercedes wins every race except Abu Dhabi.

Actually, the worst would be if Lewis wins every race from now until Brazil, and then Mercedes doesn't win in Abu Dhabi.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> The way I see it, the worst possible end would be if Mercedes wins every race except Abu Dhabi.
> 
> Actually, the worst would be if Lewis wins every race from now until Brazil, and then Mercedes doesn't win in Abu Dhabi.


At this point, I hope they could win all of the races, just because they deserve it


----------



## r33per

TheTrooper said:


> At this point, I hope they could win all of the races, just because they deserve it


Absolutely. We might want a spectacle (who doesn't?) but right now the team who has nailed the formula, has the right people in the right positions, the right allocation of time and resources is reaping the rewards. Not saying other teams haven't worked hard - they all do - but Mercedes (and especially with LH) have just smashed it.

What a lesson in managing expectations.


----------



## bulb

This season is boring as all hell, but I’m still watching practices, quali and the parade on Sunday because F1 can’t wait for the next procession


----------



## r33per

bulb said:


> This season is boring as all hell, but I’m still watching practices, quali and the parade on Sunday because F1 can’t wait for the next procession


And it all starts again today!!!


----------



## r33per

Stonking race today. Great stuff.


----------



## TheTrooper

FINALLY!!


----------



## bulb

Holy shit best race of the season, and almost could have been slightly ruined by stewards penalizing Max but they didn't. Also fun fact, this is the first race in a long time with no DNF, so we got an amazing race without resorting to safety car drama.


----------



## StevenC

Great race! Looks like Mercedes need to start all over again for the 12 win streak.



bulb said:


> Holy shit best race of the season, and almost could have been slightly ruined by stewards penalizing Max but they didn't. Also fun fact, this is the first race in a long time with no DNF, so we got an amazing race without resorting to safety car drama.


China 2018 was the last one, though Hartley didn't see the chequered flag he was classified, before that Japan 2016. 7th time ever!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> China 2018 was the last one, though Hartley didn't see the chequered flag he was classified, before that Japan 2016. 7th time ever!


I do love a statistic.


Btw: anyone going to Silverstone?


----------



## TheTrooper

WTH is happening with Haas?


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> WTH is happening with Haas?


It's the classic F1 story. Small team gets in bed with shady sponsor. Like Arrows in 1999


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> It's the classic F1 story. Small team gets in bed with shady sponsor. Like Arrows in 1999


Steiner is going to rape William Storey lol


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Steiner is going to rape William Storey lol


I'm just looking forward to seeing exactly how many cans they sold, and hopefully from that we can work out exactly how many were sold to people outside of r/formula1.


----------



## r33per

This might belong in first world problems thread...

All the merch stands at Silverstone ran out of adult size Lando Norris caps before midday on Friday. I mean, seriously? The lad's having a cracking rookie season, for McLaren, at his home Grand Prix.

‍


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> This might belong in first world problems thread...
> 
> All the merch stands at Silverstone ran out of adult size Lando Norris caps before midday on Friday. I mean, seriously? The lad's having a cracking rookie season, for McLaren, at his home Grand Prix.
> 
> ‍


Damn! Hopefully they'll have more tomorrow. Have a good weekend, was at Silverstone in 2015 sitting at Luffield/Woodcote.

We're looking at Abu Dhabi this year.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Damn! Hopefully they'll have more tomorrow. Have a good weekend, was at Silverstone in 2015 sitting at Luffield/Woodcote.
> 
> We're looking at Abu Dhabi this year.


Cheers, mate. Abbey for us, looking forward to it.


----------



## Dayviewer

Oh my what a race, loved every bit of it!
Props to Vettel and Max for working it out like gentlemen straight after the race


----------



## StevenC

Such a good race! Really fun to watch start to finish. It had everything and constant battles!


----------



## Joan Maal

Very good race ... but as always the fight only exists from the second place to the bottom.
Incredible battle between Leclerc and Verstappen!! 

I think Norris deserved a better position today. Bad luck


----------



## r33per

It was great! Everyone in a great mood and the sun came out just after the race 

Also, Furnace & The Fundamentals were really good. I mean, crowd pleasing covers but great mash-ups and playing with enthusiasm - and for an hour longer than they were meant to (drivers took ages...).


----------



## StevenC

Joan Maal said:


> Very good race ... but as always the fight only exists from the second place to the bottom.


That's a weird thing to say when the only drivers who finished where they started were 3rd, 7th and 10th.


----------



## TheTrooper

This year is strange.
When the races are boring, they are really boring; when the races are good they are really really good.

This was next level shit


----------



## StevenC

Real talk:

Seb got overtaken by Pierre today, who should Ferrari get to replace him?


----------



## StevenC

That looks like a lot of ground effect and a massive diffuser.


----------



## StevenC

Wow Ferrari


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Wow Ferrari


Wow indeed


----------



## StevenC

I need to go lie down


----------



## Dayviewer

And more wows today, A LOT, freaking loved it


----------



## SD83

First (full) race I watched in a while, probably years, and I have to agree... WOW! That was some first class entertainment. What was wrong with Mercedes today? I don't think I have ever seen a race fall apart for one team that badly... at least not in a long time


----------



## StevenC

Alfa got disqualified and Kubica scores a point!


----------



## TheTrooper

3 old circuits, 3 incredible races.
Let's see how the season evolves, even though WDC and WCC are over.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> 3 old circuits, 3 incredible races.
> Let's see how the season evolves, even though WDC and WCC are over.


In fairness Bahrain is a very new circuit and that was a good race, too. 

I think a big thing is that has been hidden by the action up front is that the coverage for the rest of the pack has vastly improved in the last few races. A lot of the races this year have been pretty good we just haven't seen the race, with the cameras squarely focused on circulating Mercedes.


----------



## StevenC

4 in a row now! Great race to watch. TV direction was great, but unfortunately missed Sainz and Gasly.

FOM need to face facts that DotD doesn't work.


----------



## r33per

Loved it. Great racing at the front and right though the field.
Pleased for Russell and Williams this weekend. Never thought I'd think qualifying and race finish of 16th would be a good result, but there we go.



StevenC said:


> FOM need to face facts that DotD doesn't work.



Agreed. Totally meaningless.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea good stuff allround!
Sainz is really getting some nice points this year, he barely seems to get any recogniztion for it though.

I agree on the DotD, it's just 'who has the most fans actively voting', and eh, crazy Dutch people are crazy.....(not always proud to be afiliated with them)


----------



## StevenC

Red Bull drop Gasly and promote Albon. Hopefully he'll perform, but that's a lot of pressure after only 12 races. Easy to think they didn't take Kvyat for Marko to save face, but also the talk is that Kvyat doesn't have the precarious RB young driver deal that the others have. They may be evaluating Albon against Max and drop him back down to Toro Rosso again if he's not on it by the end of the season.


----------



## StevenC

Woo! Ocon's back on the grid next year with Renault. This should open things up for Russell in Mercedes in 2021 or 2022.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/49537761

This is the most terrifying crash I think I've ever seen. RIP


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/49537761
> 
> This is the most terrifying crash I think I've ever seen. RIP


Agreed. Simply awful. I just about lost it today when his mum and brother appeared on track at the start of the F1 race for the minute silence.

Glad for Leclerc and really was a pretty good race, just all felt a bit weird as well.


----------



## StevenC

That's the best thing I ever saw!


----------



## Dayviewer

Absolutely ridiculous I was so hoping Sainz could capitalize on it but the first runs were already a bit too quick sadly.
A good lesson learned though I don’t think they’ll try it again any time soon haha.
Apparently Hulkenberg has to go to the stewards so we’ll see if any possible penalty comes from that.


----------



## StevenC

I found it hilarious that Rosberg was on Sky talking about locking up on purpose with a straight face.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> I found it hilarious that Rosberg was on Sky talking about locking up on purpose with a straight face.


What? What?!? No, nice man Nico would never have done a thing like that.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> What? What?!? No, nice man Nico would never have done a thing like that.


Sainz actually said to him "you were a Formula 1 driver, you know about locking up on purpose" and he smiled it off like it was some normal thing.


----------



## Mprinsje

StevenC said:


> That's the best thing I ever saw!



I laughed so hard man, it was just the dumbest thing for them not to speed up a bit or leave the pits earlier.


----------



## StevenC

Not sure I think a black and white flag was the appropriate decision today. Between that and cutting the first chicane and then moving very late in Curva Grande I don't feel great about Charles's win. But I guess with that many Ferrari fans the stewards didn't feel brave enough to award real penalties, just like when Vettel went four wheels off the track in qualifying yesterday.


----------



## StevenC

double post


----------



## r33per

Vettel with three penalty points. That’s 9 this season, I believe. Wasn’t that the same as last year?

I’m not too fussed about the decisions about LEC. He scrapped, he fought hard and a little dirty for his place - so be it. The same can be said for [insert F1 legend here].

Renault nailed it this weekend. Haas did not.


----------



## StevenC

Haas have been really bad basically all year and are the only team who haven't made any progress.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Haas have been really bad basically all year and are the only team who haven't made any progress.


Apparently, they are incapable of overtaking a Williams without shunting him into the barrier. Still let's keep that driver on for next year.


----------



## StevenC

Well that sure was something. Only 9 wins to go!


----------



## bulb

man vettel dropping out cost leclerc a win he really deserved...
i suppose it's not mathematically impossible for someone to challenge Ham but at this point it's gonna take a lot of luck...
Not a bad race for such a shitty track
Also why isn't everyone talking about what a beast Sainz has been this season?


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> man vettel dropping out cost leclerc a win he really deserved...
> i suppose it's not mathematically impossible for someone to challenge Ham but at this point it's gonna take a lot of luck...
> Not a bad race for such a shitty track
> Also why isn't everyone talking about what a beast Sainz has been this season?


Eh, Russell's car would still likely have gone into the barrier in pretty short order getting the safety car Hamilton needed.

We'd all be praising Sainz but he hasn't been shown on TV yet. (also because he was OK against Max, didn't impress against Hulk, and Lando is probably the lowest rated rookie)


----------



## SD83

bulb said:


> man vettel dropping out cost leclerc a win he really deserved...
> i suppose it's not mathematically impossible for someone to challenge Ham but at this point it's gonna take a lot of luck...


What I do not understand though is why Leclerc is so clearly no.1 in Ferrari. He was only 6 points ahead of Vettel in total before Russia, Vettel was clearly faster on the track in the beginning and they're not racing Hamilton. Had Vettels car not broken down, they'd still probably have thrown away a perfect 1-2 victory just to get the slower (on this track, judging by the first 24 laps) driver go first. I understand "let Michael pass for the Championship". Or if Leclerc was 40 points ahead of Vettel. Or faster on the track. None of that was the case, so... why?
EDIT: And while I'm here, Singapore, what kind of race is that when everyone is trying to pretty much go as slow as possible while still making it look like a race to save the tires? I think it was Hamilton who even complained to his crew that he couldn't go any slower than that. Take the qualifying time, add a few seconds, if you're going any slower than that in the same conditions with no technical problems, 5 seconds penalty.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> What I do not understand though is why Leclerc is so clearly no.1 in Ferrari. He was only 6 points ahead of Vettel in total before Russia, Vettel was clearly faster on the track in the beginning and they're not racing Hamilton. Had Vettels car not broken down, they'd still probably have thrown away a perfect 1-2 victory just to get the slower (on this track, judging by the first 24 laps) driver go first. I understand "let Michael pass for the Championship". Or if Leclerc was 40 points ahead of Vettel. Or faster on the track. None of that was the case, so... why?


I think the reason Leclerc was all of a sudden getting favoured in Russia is because Vettel had been favoured all year with no results to show for it. See the start of the year when Leclerc was moved out of Vettel's way and given silly strategies to put him behind. On top of that, they had just come from Singapore where they favoured Vettel in strategy despite him being in 3rd place, didn't tell Leclerc to speed up to match Vettel, costing Leclerc an easy win. I imagine the deal before the race was done because Charles had just been screwed out of a win despite outperforming Seb, and didn't want it happening again.



SD83 said:


> EDIT: And while I'm here, Singapore, what kind of race is that when everyone is trying to pretty much go as slow as possible while still making it look like a race to save the tires? I think it was Hamilton who even complained to his crew that he couldn't go any slower than that. Take the qualifying time, add a few seconds, if you're going any slower than that in the same conditions with no technical problems, 5 seconds penalty.


That's a really dumb idea. The whole point of teams going so slow in Singapore is because the track is so impossible to overtake on that it's always a better result to crawl around the track for the first stint, trying to make their soft tyres stretch long enough to make it a 1 stop. It's been like this for years because the track itself is so ridiculous. You can't start penalizing the teams because FOM sends them to broken tracks that the broken car rules can't race on.

The last time I can think of something similar to this would be Indy 2005, where all the teams just took the loss together creating a farce of the sport. I imagine if we instituted your rule, all the teams would just have a massive list of time penalties added at the end of the race.

Also, I think Niki Lauda said something about the secret being to win as slowly as possible.


----------



## r33per

SSO community stunned into silence as Mercedes clinch constructors championship, guaranteed driver championship...


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> SSO community stunned into silence as Mercedes clinch constructors championship, guaranteed driver championship...


Sorry, didn't get to see the race live and saw the result before watching highlights, so didn't feel qualified to give a real review. 

Mercedes were faster than Ferrari. Ferrari probably could have had a go at the win if Vettel got a better start because James Vowles doesn't do undercuts. Honda were underwhelming, Daniel Ricciardo is really good at F1.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Sorry, didn't get to see the race live and saw the result before watching highlights, so didn't feel qualified to give a real review.
> 
> Mercedes were faster than Ferrari. Ferrari probably could have had a go at the win if Vettel got a better start because James Vowles doesn't do undercuts. Honda were underwhelming, Daniel Ricciardo is really good at F1.




Sainz and Albon are finishing the season fairly strong, I feel.
It was a weird race, I felt: start jumped but no penalty; bits hanging off and breaking off a car at speed, but not ordered in; said driver and team penalised after the race, not during ; Perez crashes out on the last lap but is classified because of (correct me if I'm wrong) some timing and chequered flag waving glitch; dossier delivered about dubious auto bias of brakes.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Sainz and Albon are finishing the season fairly strong, I feel.
> It was a weird race, I felt: start jumped but no penalty; bits hanging off and breaking off a car at speed, but not ordered in; said driver and team penalised after the race, not during ; Perez crashes out on the last lap but is classified because of (correct me if I'm wrong) some timing and chequered flag waving glitch; dossier delivered about dubious auto bias of brakes.


Yeah, it was very strange.

I have no issue with Vettel: he jumped, stopped without going over the mark, and then continued on when the lights went out, getting a poor start and losing the lead. No penalty imo.

I'm confused about Leclerc: crashed into Max, should have gotten a penalty, didn't, could have sped up to keep his place if he did get a time penalty, didn't, gets a penalty post race, loses positions. Probably fair result.
But then the body work flying off, team saying to race control they'll pit for unsafe car, Leclerc changing their mind, then moments later a chunk flying off and hitting another car. Same as before could have gained back ten seconds in the race to avoid that penalty, but he didn't so again, super dangerous thing he did probably a fair result.

Looking forward to this Renault thing, because what they're doing is super illegal, but super cool, and very Renault.

There was a rule after Canada last year where they got rid of the actual flag for ending the race, and a digital flag was the signal for the end of the race. Of course, they still have an analogue flag, but it's purely symbolic. So then the same thing happened here as happened in Canada, and the race ended a lap early. 

What is it with Canadian Grands Prix and silly rules being enacted because of it. 2010, 2011, 2018, 2019...


----------



## StevenC

Well, I thought that was an exciting race. Cars on different strategies seeing what would pay off, massive undercuts playing out over 20 laps and a guessing game to the end.

Mexico City is a strange track.


----------



## Joan Maal

And Ferrari screwed it up again... Too many mistakes this seas.... All seasons since Schumacher is gone


----------



## r33per

Yeah it was kinda tense! I said to the wife a few laps after LEC's pit stop, "this is Vettel's race" - it just looked like exactly the kind of situation he could exploit: in the lead, very comfortable with the car etc. But no! Well done Hamcedes!

Also, another nail in DotD's coffin: Verstappen?!? The driver who was a shoe-in for the win threw it away by bumping about with two (three?) drivers on lap one, puncture, back of the field recovery drive and bumper cars whilst doing so. Poor driving, nothing to be happy about as driver, team or fan.


----------



## bulb

r33per said:


> Yeah it was kinda tense! I said to the wife a few laps after LEC's pit stop, "this is Vettel's race" - it just looked like exactly the kind of situation he could exploit: in the lead, very comfortable with the car etc. But no! Well done Hamcedes!
> 
> Also, another nail in DotD's coffin: Verstappen?!? The driver who was a shoe-in for the win threw it away by bumping about with two (three?) drivers on lap one, puncture, back of the field recovery drive and bumper cars whilst doing so. Poor driving, nothing to be happy about as driver, team or fan.



You should know by now that Max is the default Dotd unless something exceptional happens.

I actually think Max is insanely talented, might be the most pure talent on the grid, but that was a horrible start that cost him what should have been an easy win.

I know it’s easy to hate on Ham and I know he whines way too much and seems to doubt his team’s strategies in the race because 1/20 races they mess up, but goddamn Lewis is a cool and consistent driver. It’s so rare to see him mess up, it’s rare to see him crash into someone else, and even rarer to see him be worse off for it. This is where his true talent lies. 

Max has really chilled out over the last couple years, but if he had played it cool for 3 laps, and then gone full Verstappen once the chaos had died down he would probably have won the damn thing.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> You should know by now that Max is the default Dotd unless something exceptional happens.
> 
> I actually think Max is insanely talented, might be the most pure talent on the grid, but that was a horrible start that cost him what should have been an easy win.
> 
> I know it’s easy to hate on Ham and I know he whines way too much and seems to doubt his team’s strategies in the race because 1/20 races they mess up, but goddamn Lewis is a cool and consistent driver. It’s so rare to see him mess up, it’s rare to see him crash into someone else, and even rarer to see him be worse off for it. This is where his true talent lies.
> 
> Max has really chilled out over the last couple years, but if he had played it cool for 3 laps, and then gone full Verstappen once the chaos had died down he would probably have won the damn thing.


Lewis's real talent is venting his frustration on the radio instead of on the track and still executing the strategies he doesn't trust. A lot of other drivers would end up crashing into someone from that frustration, or giving up on that strategy, but Lewis turns it into a race win.


----------



## Genome

In the latest Pure Pitwall video James Allison was saying how the damage to Lewis's car (damaged floor and front wing endplate) would've cost him approx. 7 seconds across the entire Grand Prix.

Factor in the 47 lap stint on the slowest tyre, the fact he still won is pretty remarkable. One of his best drives, I'd say.


----------



## StevenC

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooorld Champion!

That was a good race, too!


----------



## Genome

Some may not agree.

But I honestly think he's the GOAT.


----------



## r33per

I enjoyed that 
LH is really something else. He's just head and shoulders above (or nose cone in front...) of the rest.

Lando finally gets a decent result!!!


----------



## StevenC

What did I just watch?


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> What did I just watch?


THE BEST RACE OF THE YEAR THAT’S WHAT 
Oh man this was beautiful.
The one thing, THE ONE THING that could have made it better was an immediate penalty to Hamilton (if they decide to do that eventually) so that Sainz could have joined them on the podium, he totally deserves it.


----------



## SD83

That was great entertainment! I almost fell from my seat laughing when the two Ferrari crashed. And that finish, Gasly and Hamilton, it doesn't get much better than that. And yeah, Sainz from last to 5th... that kind of stuff is what I watch F1 for.


----------



## Dayviewer

Sainz has P3 now! <3


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Sainz has P3 now! <3


NO NO NO !!!
He was my pick to beat Hulk's record!


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> NO NO NO !!!
> He was my pick to beat Hulk's record!


Hahah, yea that would have been a decent bet I guess, I wouldn't be surprised if Mclaren can be in the mix for the podium more legit next year though!


----------



## r33per

What a race indeed!
Gutted for Albon. Those multiple world champions didn't exactly shine yesterday - driver and team...


----------



## TheTrooper

Loved the race, really something special.

Williams should really leave the sport......


----------



## Dayviewer

TheTrooper said:


> Williams should really leave the sport......


Dutch TV reported they have crew members sharing hotel rooms sleeping on the floor and travel expenses not being reimbursed etc, if true it's absolutely nuts.
It's mentioned they are desparately trying to get Latifi for next year as he'd bring some money along, it might save them from quitting a bit, but I doubt they'll be able to take on any team with it next year.


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> Dutch TV reported they have crew members sharing hotel rooms sleeping on the floor and travel expenses not being reimbursed etc, if true it's absolutely nuts.
> It's mentioned they are desparately trying to get Latifi for next year as he'd bring some money along, it might save them from quitting a bit, but I doubt they'll be able to take on any team with it next year.


Very difficult. Even if they get money, it's too late for next year.
I admire their tenacity, but the old proverb of Solomon comes to mind: pride goes before a fall, and a haughty spirit before destruction. It won't be down to one thing I'm sure, but their "privateer" insistence might be their undoing...


----------



## r33per

No Queen's NYD Honour for Lewis. Again.

Shocking.


----------



## Dayviewer

The work on Zandvoort is very well underway for next year, lots of drone footage every other week from a few people gives some nice insight into the progress:


They are really putting in the work, 2 corners are going to be banked and the last corner before the main straight will really resemble the turn of an oval.
The pit exit will be extended to after the first corner, but it will still be (one of the) shortest pit lanes on the whole calender which could give some interesting strategies.
Here's a render of how it will be like:


2 runoffs are also added after the 2 straights (however the turns will further still have gravel), pit boxes are being extended, more tunnels to get into the paddock, and overall tweaking of the terrain for more grandstands and other facilities.
They are on schedule to be done with the main track in February, and then they will start building up the rest in April to be ready for F1 in May. 
I won't be there at the Grand Prix, but I always go to the Historic races in September, I'm very much looking forward to going there after the upgrade.


----------



## Kobalt

TheTrooper said:


> Williams should really leave the sport......


Or perhaps move Claire out of the way? I understand Williams is a family business, but she obviously hasn't pushed the team in the right direction.

Patrick Head? He's been around for what, 50 years?

Maybe they need a major overhaul in staffing. It's still a sport after all. It's fine to be resilient and try to make a combination work, but when it clearly doesn't, perhaps you need to stop being so stubborn...


----------



## Dayviewer

So big news today: Lawrence Stroll bought himself into Aston Martin, so starting 2021 Racing Point will change into an official Aston Martin team, with Red Bull losing it's title sponsorship, though I think Honda might be keen to pick that up for them.

And here's a new update on the progress at Zandvoort:


You can see some run-off areas have been added but there's still plenty of gravel as well.
They are still on schedule, last bits of asphalt should be there the end of the month, with some small races going on from March to break it all in.


----------



## StevenC

I am so unexcited for Zandvoort. I'm really only excited by Monaco because my friends and I always make a day about it with the 500.

Cool about Stroll. He loves cars and racing, and is just doing a great job to help raise up the Silverstone team.


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> I am so unexcited for Zandvoort


Yea it’s overall still very narrow and there seem to be little “easy” overtaking spots, apart from T1 (if the final banked corner will work as planned that is)

I expected it to be widened at a few more places as well but it doesn’t really seem to be the case thus far.
However the changes they are making are still positive and will increase overtaking by at least a little bit compared to before.

Other than that I do think this track will give some insane Qualy runs, and watching drivers push the limits to see whats possible (also during the race) could still be interesting.

I’m very aware to be biased though as I visit the track once a year.
But I am surprised how much work they are putting in the whole area, the plans were kind of understated.

Anyways we’ll see what happens! 
Not too long until the first car reveals, excited!


----------



## Kobalt

Dayviewer said:


> So big news today: Lawrence Stroll bought himself into Aston Martin, so starting 2021 Racing Point will change into an official Aston Martin team, with Red Bull losing it's title sponsorship, though I think Honda might be keen to pick that up for them.


Yet another name change! 

I wonder if they'll keep the pink, I doubt that's gonna fly with Aston Martin.


----------



## TheTrooper

Kobalt said:


> Or perhaps move Claire out of the way? I understand Williams is a family business, but she obviously hasn't pushed the team in the right direction.
> 
> Patrick Head? He's been around for what, 50 years?
> 
> Maybe they need a major overhaul in staffing. It's still a sport after all. It's fine to be resilient and try to make a combination work, but when it clearly doesn't, perhaps you need to stop being so stubborn...


That would be the least they should do.
They really need more financing from all involved.


----------



## TheTrooper

Kobalt said:


> Yet another name change!
> 
> I wonder if they'll keep the pink, I doubt that's gonna fly with Aston Martin.


British Racing Green.
I'm calling it here and now


----------



## StevenC

To be fair, Williams brought Patrick Head back last year after being out for a few years, so we'll see if he's managed any positive influence this year. (I thought he came back in 2017 or so, but I guess Williams are so slow these days last year felt like 3)

I'm really disappointed that Racing Point will likely no longer be pink. Though I do remember Top Gear having a pink Aston Martin in one of their Star in a Reasonably Priced Car bits years ago.


----------



## Dayviewer

So, nobody Haasn't felt the need to post this yet?
It's the first revealed new contender!


----------



## StevenC

Because it's so ugly


----------



## StevenC

https://www.racefans.net/2020/02/07/fia-anothine-hubert-fatal-crash-report/

Hubert Report.

Really tragic.


----------



## Dayviewer

^ Heartbreaking read, also feel really bad for Correa who has years of recovery ahead.


----------



## Kobalt

TheTrooper said:


> British Racing Green.
> I'm calling it here and now


Yeah, my money is on that as well.


----------



## StevenC

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/1227654269064679425
Lewis just gets me


----------



## TheTrooper

What do You guys think about the new cars?
The RedBull looks MEAN!


----------



## Kobalt

Aside from the Haas, they all basically look the same. Since Sauber’s “exit” though, my favourite livery has been Renault, they always look on point so that new matte black is nice.

As a UPS driver I get to stare at the Ferrari all day on our express envelopes. Still looks the same.


----------



## Kobalt

I have to admit this is pretty sexy.


----------



## StevenC

The gorgeous new Racing Point W10


----------



## Kobalt

Well, at least people can’t say there are too many pink cars on the grid...


----------



## TheTrooper

Racing Point: "Can I copy your homework?"


Mercedes: "Yeah, but change it up a bit so they can't tell you copied"

Racing Point:


----------



## Kobalt

TheTrooper said:


> Racing Point: "Can I copy your homework?"
> 
> 
> Mercedes: "Yeah, but change it up a bit so they can't tell you copied"
> 
> Racing Point:


Can’t blame them for trying 

Is that rear wing legal? Looks a tad too tall.


----------



## TheTrooper

Have You guys seen the W11 and the steering wheel/column?
It moves inward and outward (maybe to change the camber of the tyres approaching a corner?):
That's really clever stuff.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Have You guys seen the W11 and the steering wheel/column?
> It moves inward and outward (maybe to change the camber of the tyres approaching a corner?):
> That's really clever stuff.


It's the toe that's changing, and it's incredible. Lets them have better straight line stability with toe in on the straghts, and toe out for better turn in response in the corners.

I have no idea if this will be legal or not, but there doesn't seem to be anything specifically stopping it. There are rules about no changing the suspension when the car is in motion, but front toe is adjusted every time a steering change is made on any vehicle, so that couldn't apply and toe is more a part of steering setup anyway. There's also a rule about no movable aero on the car other than DRS, which this obviously isn't unless you count wheels as aero devices, which isn't an argument that leads anywhere.


----------



## Dayviewer

It's claimed to be legal, we'll have to see how it all unfolds though:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...e-insist-mercedes.6pSo0iDVCZ0HBdcz2MvMPd.html


----------



## Kobalt

It’ll turn out to be exactly like every single time a team finds a loophole in the rulebook to gain an advantage at the top. So Ferrari will DEFINITELY complain, probably Red Bull as well.

It’s a vicious circle, really.


----------



## TheTrooper

This shows why they are WC.
This is incredible stuff, happy they keep pushing with innovations


----------



## StevenC

There was a rule added in October to the 2021 regs about this, but not to the 2020 regs. Clearly a loophole they couldn't close in time. We'll see how much it's worth soon.


----------



## r33per

My brother messaged me:

"DAS! THIS IS WHY I LOVE F1!!"

Delighted to see Williams out there and in reasonable form. I think from previous on this thread I can state that we're all routing for them.


----------



## Kobalt

r33per said:


> My brother messaged me:
> 
> "DAS! THIS IS WHY I LOVE F1!!"
> 
> Delighted to see Williams out there and in reasonable form. I think from previous on this thread I can state that we're all routing for them.


I've got nothing against Williams, the heritage of the team is nothing but admirable. The fact that such a privateer team is still on the grid in this day and age just commands respect.

I do think they need to shuffle the cards and get new people on board, however.


----------



## Dayviewer

The track at Zandvoort is finished, here's Max doing a lap in the RB8 earlier today:


They are still wrapping up some of the track-side things (yes the final corner will still receive proper fences too )
Here's a more aerial view recorded a few days back:


First and and last sector have been overhauled completely with repaved asfalt, the whole middle sector is as good as untouched sans from some adjusted kerbs and a small run-off area in one of the corners.

Yes it's still a very narrow track, I think the only "easy" place to overtake is Turn 1, maybe turn 3 allows for different lines with the wide banking.
Other than that there might be more but it'd be very ballsy  we'll see what happens!

Also, Melbourne soon!


----------



## StevenC

So uh... how hard do we think Ferrari cheated and the FIA covered it up?


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> So uh... how hard do we think Ferrari cheated and the FIA covered it up?


Hard 
Already had the whole thing going on at Brazil last year, and for them now to be “seemingly y” slower at wintertesting (yes it’s only testing / might be sandbags etc etc) combined with the rumor they have a new engine built from scratch and now the FIA press release.
All signs are pointing towards it haha.

Ferrari can’t afford to loose face like that and the FIA needs them as they are so part of the sport, and that’s all you can say about it I guess.


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> Hard
> Already had the whole thing going on at Brazil last year, and for them now to be “seemingly y” slower at wintertesting (yes it’s only testing / might be sandbags etc etc) combined with the rumor they have a new engine built from scratch and now the FIA press release.
> All signs are pointing towards it haha.
> 
> Ferrari can’t afford to loose face like that and the FIA needs them as they are so part of the sport, and that’s all you can say about it I guess.


Agreed.

They have a veto on the council IIRC so let it go or we'll vote against.

Nothing to see here! Move along.


----------



## r33per

I guess Bahrain 2020 is going to appear on the Formula1 YouTube channel's "top 5 strangest races" list...


----------



## StevenC

So McLaren have pulled out of the race weekend and now there's a meeting on what to do going forward.

Just a reminder that when it was Ferrari, Brawn said they wouldn't go ahead if one team couldn't race.


----------



## StevenC

StevenC said:


> I'm sure Lewis will win Melbourne sometime...


I guess it won't be this year


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> I guess it won't be this year


----------



## TheTrooper

Summer break.
In March 

My god I want to watch this season.
I miss F1 badly


----------



## TheTrooper

Dutch,Spanish and Mocano GP postponed.
Albert II of Monaco positive to Covid-19.
2021 regulations (and cars) delayed to 2022.


----------



## TheTrooper

CANCELLED

No Monaco this year


----------



## Dayviewer

To add a little bit of a positive note, F1 is organizing official eSports events during the canceled Grand Prix weekends.
Some drivers will be participating along with other stars.


----------



## TheTrooper

That is awesome, I've watched the Not AU GP stream and it was really good


----------



## Dayviewer

Yep! And I believe those are continuing too so there’ll be two events on Sunday for the coming times by the looks of it.


----------



## Dayviewer

Here's the schedule for tommorow:

SUNDAY
#NotTheBahGP
18:00 GMT
Veloce Esports YouTube, Twitch

#F1Esports Virtual Bahrain Grand Prix
20:00 GMT
F1 YouTube, Twitch


----------



## StevenC

What did everyone think of the Brazil 2016 replay on YouTube? I'm just catching up on it now. I remember watching this masterpiece live.


----------



## Dayviewer

Didn't watch it but I really appreciate that they did it, was a good race too yea!
Hope they do more of these as well more regularly, would be great to see some stuff from 90's and 00's too.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Didn't watch it but I really appreciate that they did it, was a good race too yea!
> Hope they do more of these as well more regularly, would be great to see some stuff from 90's and 00's too.


They did that a few times in the last couple years which was great. But I don't think the previous full races were left up. There was definitely a Malaysian GP from the early 2000s, I think there was a mid/late 90s race and I feel like there was also one from 2005 or 2006. It would be nice if they uploaded Canada 2011 next.


----------



## TheTrooper

Oh frickin' hell, Azerbaijan GP postponed.
Maybe the season will start in Canada, but there's a good chance it will start in Austria.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Oh frickin' hell, Azerbaijan GP postponed.
> Maybe the season will start in Canada, but there's a good chance it will start in Austria.


My money is currently on Australia.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> My money is currently on Australia.


Yeah, 2030 maybe, if we are lucky


----------



## StevenC

YES PLEASE


----------



## TheTrooper

We might have no F1 this year.
Just a thought


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> We might have no F1 this year.
> Just a thought


I've fully accepted that by now. It's just a shame all the sports leagues are spouting the "we're looking into ways to finish the season" nonsense ever week.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I've fully accepted that by now. It's just a shame all the sports leagues are spouting the "we're looking into ways to finish the season" nonsense ever week.


Agreed. 
It's just pointless, just pull the plug, this year is toast.


----------



## r33per

Only posting to voice my agreement. Disappointed we'll likely never see DAS in action...


----------



## TheTrooper

r33per said:


> Only posting to voice my agreement. Disappointed we'll likely never see DAS in action...


Yeah, and also we have to wait 1 year more to see any proper racing.
I'm enjoying the livestreams though, they're fun.


----------



## StevenC

Seb's leaving Ferrari at the end of the year! Do we think he's retiring or moving somewhere else?


----------



## Joan Maal

I wonder Sainz wins Ferrari's seat over Richiardo... Alonso seems to be impossible


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Seb's leaving Ferrari at the end of the year! Do we think he's retiring or moving somewhere else?


Retiring, 90%.
As the statemet said, It was his choice mainly and moving from a winning team to a non-winning team (McLaren, Renault) would make no sense.


----------



## TheTrooper

Joan Maal said:


> I wonder Sainz wins Ferrari's seat over Richiardo... Alonso seems to be impossible


From Italy, every major sport newspaper says Sainz, contract almost ready.
I would really like Daniel though


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Retiring, 90%.
> As the statemet said, It was his choice mainly and moving from a winning team to a non-winning team (McLaren, Renault) would make no sense.


I feel like Seb of all the drivers except for Kimi has shown that more than anything he loves racing, and Formula 1 in particular. The guy knows as much about F1 as anybody. But also like Kimi he's shown a strong preference towards an easy life. I can totally see a world where Seb is content enough with his F1 achievements to go to a smaller team because he is so fed up with the mess of politics and backstabbing that is Scuderia Ferrari.

In fact, my guess is he'll go to Red Bull. He loves Red Bull and Red Bull loves him. If he's going to be upstaged by a young pretender, might as well do it surrounded by friends in a happy environment. There he can live out the rest of his days as the Webber to Max's Vettel.

Why do I think Seb would want to back up the guy breaking all his records? Because Max isn't going to break the only record that counts: Youngest WDC. Also, he has a better chance of stopping the youngest Grand Chelem record in the same car.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I feel like Seb of all the drivers except for Kimi has shown that more than anything he loves racing, and Formula 1 in particular. The guy knows as much about F1 as anybody. But also like Kimi he's shown a strong preference towards an easy life. I can totally see a world where Seb is content enough with his F1 achievements to go to a smaller team because he is so fed up with the mess of politics and backstabbing that is Scuderia Ferrari.
> 
> In fact, my guess is he'll go to Red Bull. He loves Red Bull and Red Bull loves him. If he's going to be upstaged by a young pretender, might as well do it surrounded by friends in a happy environment. There he can live out the rest of his days as the Webber to Max's Vettel.
> 
> Why do I think Seb would want to back up the guy breaking all his records? Because Max isn't going to break the only record that counts: Youngest WDC. Also, he has a better chance of stopping the youngest Grand Chelem record in the same car.


The RedBull camp said they're not going to have him back.
I really do believe he changed his priorities with this coronavirus situation


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> I feel like Seb of all the drivers except for Kimi has shown that more than anything he loves racing, and Formula 1 in particular. The guy knows as much about F1 as anybody. But also like Kimi he's shown a strong preference towards an easy life. I can totally see a world where Seb is content enough with his F1 achievements to go to a smaller team because he is so fed up with the mess of politics and backstabbing that is Scuderia Ferrari.
> 
> In fact, my guess is he'll go to Red Bull. He loves Red Bull and Red Bull loves him. If he's going to be upstaged by a young pretender, might as well do it surrounded by friends in a happy environment. There he can live out the rest of his days as the Webber to Max's Vettel.
> 
> Why do I think Seb would want to back up the guy breaking all his records? Because Max isn't going to break the only record that counts: Youngest WDC. Also, he has a better chance of stopping the youngest Grand Chelem record in the same car.


Looks like it's gonna be McLaren, 1 year contract. (that's speculation form Italy)


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Looks like it's gonna be McLaren, 1 year contract. (that's speculation form Italy)


And now BBC are reporting Ricciardo to McLaren


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Looks like it's gonna be McLaren, 1 year contract. (that's speculation form Italy)


Ricciardo just announced he's driving for McLaren next year.

Edit: and Carlos confirmed at Ferrari.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Ricciardo just announced he's driving for McLaren next year.
> 
> Edit: and Carlos confirmed at Ferrari.


And I bet Vettel goes to Merceds with Lewis or retires.
This is awesome.


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> And I bet Vettel goes to Merceds with Lewis or retires.
> This is awesome.


No way, Red Bull is way more likely than Mercedes!

Marko says they can't afford Vettel and Vettel says he doesn't care about money.


----------



## StevenC

Formula 1 is back this week!!!!

In other news:


----------



## r33per

Yes! So looking forward to it.
Black Mercedes looks mean


----------



## TheTrooper

The wait is finally over


----------



## StevenC

Honestly, if Mercedes put their mind to social issues the way they went after dominating F1, I'm sure we could have world peace in 2 or 3 months tops.


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Honestly, if Mercedes put their mind to social issues the way they went after dominating F1, I'm sure we could have world peace in 2 or 3 months tops.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
This is the best thing I've read in years.
So true.


----------



## StevenC

Have you guys noticed there is actual F1 happening on TV right now? I can scarcely believe it!


----------



## TheTrooper

Jeeeeeeeez, the Ferraris are actually Sh*t


----------



## Dayviewer

So happy to be able to stare at things going around circles really fast again 

Oh and I’m not saying anything about the order of things until after Q3


----------



## TheTrooper

I'm starting to think that the actual problem is the engine with the Ferraris.
They have downforce and do really good in corners, but they just don't have power.
Verstappen/RedBull where right last year when they said "cheating".
More downforce would mean better tyre life, so let's see.


----------



## StevenC

Ferrari are slower than last year.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea really shocked about Ferrari. But man am I excited about the fights for P4/5/6, the field is looking very close, and I'm stoked to see Norris taking 4th here <3
Nice risk of Max going with the yellow tires in Q2, hope to see that paying off tomorrow


----------



## TheTrooper

I retreat what I said about Ferrari.
S*it is actually better than that.
McLaren on fire, did not expect them to be THIS good (I'll risk it and say they will be in front of Ferrari in the Championship)


----------



## StevenC

Ferrari might be the 6th fastest car in qualifying! Great job by McLaren and Racing Point. Daniel got very unlucky.

Every team gained team except Red Bull, who did basically the same time, and the Ferrari engines. Haas lost 6 tenth, Ferrari lost 9 tenths and Alfa lost 1.1 seconds. They must have been cheating hard!


----------



## TheTrooper

StevenC said:


> Ferrari might be the 6th fastest car in qualifying! Great job by McLaren and Racing Point. Daniel got very unlucky.
> 
> Every team gained team except Red Bull, who did basically the same time, and the Ferrari engines. Haas lost 6 tenth, Ferrari lost 9 tenths and Alfa lost 1.1 seconds. They must have been cheating hard!


At least we'll see a lot of battles in the midfield, even if the car are much much more closer together


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> At least we'll see a lot of battles in the midfield, even if the car are much much more closer together


It's going to be a big deal for pit strategies too, having all those fast cars within the pit window.


----------



## StevenC

Karma Red Bull, you sore losing cry babies!


----------



## Dayviewer

Hey man, I was rooting for that guy! 
All good though now all my good vibes are being sent to Mclaren


----------



## Dayviewer

Good vibes clearly helped go Mclaren


----------



## StevenC

Anything can happen in Formula 1 and today it did.


----------



## TheTrooper

What a great race.
It's like Australia reliability but halfway thru the season, with a track that let's you fight.
Magic.


----------



## r33per

Loved it, great season start and great race.


----------



## Joan Maal

Enjoyed the race A LOT... great for McLaren. I hope they can be the 4th team (at least) this year.


----------



## TheTrooper

Joan Maal said:


> Enjoyed the race A LOT... great for McLaren. I hope they can be the 4th team (at least) this year.


I'm going for P3 for McLaren.


----------



## r33per

Alonso back with Renault? How dull.


----------



## Viginez

StevenC said:


> Honestly, if Mercedes put their mind to social issues the way they went after dominating F1, I'm sure we could have world peace in 2 or 3 months tops.


please no


----------



## Viginez

StevenC said:


> Ferrari are slower than last year.


engine downgrade


----------



## TheTrooper

Viginez said:


> please no


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU ARE KILLING ME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Dayviewer

r33per said:


> Alonso back with Renault? How dull.


Nah dude I’m just imagining Drive to Survive scenes of him bickering with Abiteboul about failed promises, should be great entertainment and it’s gonna be glorious


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Nah dude I’m just imagining Drive to Survive scenes of him bickering with Abiteboul about failed promises, should be great entertainment and it’s gonna be glorious


Alonso could win every race in the two years if his contract and Drive to Survive would still manufacture that storyline.


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> Alonso could win every race in the two years if his contract and Drive to Survive would still manufacture that storyline.


You mean with the new regulation overhaul? Yea definitely, only god knows who can end up on top there.
Though I'm secretly hoping that Williams will get there Brawn GP scenario there


----------



## StevenC

Every so often something like today happens and I think I've never seen anyone do a lap like that before. And then I remember all the other times Lewis has done a lap like that.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea people can say about him what they want, but his driving? Oh baby he’s good


----------



## r33per

Man's a legend. The young-uns were putting in some great performances today. Then that happened.


----------



## StevenC

Part of me really wishes Lewis had shouted out the fans.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Part of me really wishes Lewis had shouted out the fans.




That was fun again. LAAAANNDDDOOOOO!!!


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> That was fun again. LAAAANNDDDOOOOO!!!


"The fans at this track are always great" [points to stands] "Ted Kravitz turns up week in and week out."


----------



## TheTrooper

Great race.
Let's not talk about the firts lap.


----------



## StevenC

George Russell is the greatest driver Williams have ever had.


----------



## StevenC

Max trying to one up Grosjean's 2016 performance


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> Max trying to one up Grosjean's 2016 performance


Yea that was a bit embarrassing
Mechanics totally went for it though mad props to them 
Fun race overall, the midfield is so interesting this year, love it.


----------



## TheTrooper

The races are great, a lot of battles, but Mercedes will win everysingleoneofthem.
This could be the MP4/4 stripped of the record it has.


----------



## Dayviewer

After we got Mugello confirmed we now officially have Nurburgring, Portimao and Imola confirmed as well! Very much looking forward to these tracks, especially Portimao that one is crazy 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-event-in-imola-to.CGyDtalz9hBwCojE2QGCI.html


----------



## r33per

Totally. Really glad this has happened. Maybe we should have global pandemics more often


----------



## Dayviewer

Haha yees, any other new/old tracks you guys would like to see?


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Haha yees, any other new/old tracks you guys would like to see?


I'd like to see F1 at Motegi, or Brands Hatch. Other than that, all of my favourite race tracks are already on the calendar (because there aren't that many good race tracks in the world).


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> Haha yees, any other new/old tracks you guys would like to see?


Old Hockenheim 
Adelaide


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> I'd like to see F1 at Motegi, or Brands Hatch. Other than that, all of my favourite race tracks are already on the calendar (because there aren't that many good race tracks in the world).


Cool! I'm not all familiar with Motegi but every time I do see it I'm a little disapointed that the oval and road course are not connected in any way haha.


r33per said:


> Old Hockenheim
> Adelaide


Adelaide get's my vote too! that'd be awesome.

One of my fav tracks is Watkins Glen (the long layout) but that's never ever gonna happen.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Cool! I'm not all familiar with Motegi but every time I do see it I'm a little disapointed that the oval and road course are not connected in any way haha.


If they were connected it'd a better version of old Monza!


----------



## TheTrooper

If they let people in, I'm fucking going to Imola.
I've been there in 2006, Pole and win by Michael.
I've missed that track.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Haha yees, any other new/old tracks you guys would like to see?


I forgot one and the latest rumours reminded me: Istanbul Park!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> I forgot one and the latest rumours reminded me: Istanbul Park!


Knockhill, Scotland.

Only because it's, like, a 2.5 hour drive away.

Oh wait: no fans


----------



## StevenC

Looks like Perez is out for the both Silverstone rounds after a positive COVID test.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yup, rumors are going around that Hulkenberg will fill in, what are the odds of it happening and him finally getting that podium?


----------



## Dayviewer

Hulkenberg is confirmed for this week and the next, and currently driving in FP1


----------



## r33per

From BBC: "Temperatures were extremely high at Silverstone on Friday, hitting 35C during the course of the afternoon."

Now I do wish I was there, but I suspect that would have been a nightmare in the tent that evening...


----------



## StevenC

They would have had pole in Q2 on mediums!


----------



## Dayviewer

F1 should just go the WEC route, go multi-class, make Mercedes ‘F0’ ,run separate championships and call it a day


----------



## StevenC

ONLY DRIVER IN HISTORY TO WIN A RACE ON THREE WHEELS


----------



## r33per




----------



## Dayviewer

Great finish to a boring race haha.
Next week will be interesting as the whole field will be driving on softer tires, two stop strategy maybe?


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Great finish to a boring race haha.
> Next week will be interesting as the whole field will be driving on softer tires, two stop strategy maybe?


Remember there were two long safety cars today. This should have been a two stop already.


----------



## Dayviewer

I'll be only doing one thing tomorrow after this qualy, scream my lungs out for the Hulk


----------



## StevenC

If Nico gets a podium tomorrow it'll be a better sports fairytale than Brawn or Leicester.


----------



## StevenC

Very strange race today, but very exciting!

Shame about Hulk.


----------



## Dayviewer

Had to leave after the first twenty minutes only to get a text from my dad later on that Max suddenly won  that's how it goes haha.
Sad to see Hulk didn't get a podium though, but I'm sure he'll still be getting some calls for a potential spot next year (my money is on Grosjean's seat)


----------



## Mathemagician

Dayviewer said:


> F1 should just go the WEC route, go multi-class, make Mercedes ‘F0’ ,run separate championships and call it a day



F-Zero already exists as a Super Nintendo game, and the Zero stands for zero gravity. 

Thank god for the F1TV, not paying what cable costs in the us to watch it on espn.


----------



## Dayviewer

Mathemagician said:


> F-Zero already exists as a Super Nintendo game, and the Zero stands for zero gravity.


Yea I know haha, almost makes it more fitting though seeing what Mercedes is capable of  Then they just need a driver dressed as Captain Falcon doing some demo runs at promo events and it's a done deal.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Yea I know haha, almost makes it more fitting though seeing what Mercedes is capable of  Then they just need a driver dressed as Captain Falcon doing some demo runs at promo events and it's a done deal.


They didn't even have tyres this weekend!


----------



## Dayviewer

Today will most likely be a snooze fest, not looking forward to it too much but hey anything can happen I guess.

I really really really can’t wait till we get to the new tracks, with some luck they’ll bring some exciting situations.


----------



## StevenC

I thought today was a pretty decent race, at least interesting. And you know, Ferrari drama!

In other news does anyone else think that Daniel Ricciardo looks like young Petrucci?


----------



## Dayviewer

It's been a long time coming but here we are, Williams has been sold, thankfully the team will keep his name and stay at the current factory: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...-by-us-based-investment-firm-dorilton-capital



StevenC said:


> In other news does anyone else think that Daniel Ricciardo looks like young Petrucci?


Wow yea that's almost scary


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> I thought today was a pretty decent race, at least interesting. And you know, Ferrari drama!
> 
> In other news does anyone else think that Daniel Ricciardo looks like young Petrucci?


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> It's been a long time coming but here we are, Williams has been sold, thankfully the team will keep his name and stay at the current factory: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...-by-us-based-investment-firm-dorilton-capital
> 
> 
> Wow yea that's almost scary


Best thing, I think. Sure, there's a romance in the wee independent mixing it with the big boys but it just wasn't happening. Hope it works out.


----------



## Dayviewer

Istanbul, Bahrein (x2) and Abu Dhabi are confirmed as the final 4 races.
No word yet on if they'll run a different layout on the 2nd Bahrein GP.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ed-to-F1-calendar.2cVIVl0QDr4OiZa7rPt7Zg.html


----------



## Dayviewer

Yes Bahrein's outer loop layout will be used for the 2nd race there, 87 laps most likely under 60 seconds.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...sakhir-grand-prix.6niLbb2btc0IrscR1BMpx8.html


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> Yes Bahrein's outer loop layout will be used for the 2nd race there, 87 laps most likely under 60 seconds.
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...sakhir-grand-prix.6niLbb2btc0IrscR1BMpx8.html


Honestly not sure what to make of this. Hopefully it's enough not oval to be interesting - really not a fan of the oval...


----------



## Dayviewer

Gods it's getting boring, considering to only watch a couple of laps from the new tracks this season and leaving it that, oh and maybe skip next season as a whole as they'll mostly keep the same cars 
Bring on the new regs.


----------



## StevenC

Enjoyable race yesterday, not super exciting or anything but I was glad to cheer for Daniel, Ocon and Pierre. Really sorry for Russell being taken out while having another great race, could have finished ahead of both Ferraris. And I'll always cheer against Ferrari.

I saw a post on reddit yesterday talking about how great the championship would be with Mercedes because the fight "behind Verstappen was so close"


----------



## Bodes

Almost a completely boring race. Terrible coverage (we get the UK Sky coverage here in Aus). It was almost like they didn't want us to see anything good.
"oh, it seems like someone has passed another person. Let's not show you the footage"


----------



## bulb

I honestly think this season has some of the best midfield battling in a while. Yeah Lewis is gonna win, short of Covid knocking him out or something disastrous happening it's a given. Still interested to see if Max can beat Bottas, and then the rest is an absolute blast to watch. We thinking Ricc for Monza podium? Abiteboul would get a tattoo.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> I honestly think this season has some of the best midfield battling in a while. Yeah Lewis is gonna win, short of Covid knocking him out or something disastrous happening it's a given. Still interested to see if Max can beat Bottas, and then the rest is an absolute blast to watch. We thinking Ricc for Monza podium? Abiteboul would get a tattoo.


There's a good chance they're the second best car in Monza with that engine. At least if last year is anything to go by, didn't he finish 4th?


Bodes said:


> Almost a completely boring race. Terrible coverage (we get the UK Sky coverage here in Aus). It was almost like they didn't want us to see anything good.
> "oh, it seems like someone has passed another person. Let's not show you the footage"


This was one of Croft's worst commentating performances, just hadn't a clue what was going on.


----------



## Bodes

StevenC said:


> This was one of Croft's worst commentating performances, just hadn't a clue what was going on.



Agreed. Is it because they do not have people around the track telling them what has happened so they can quickly grab the footage and discuss?
I just found the coverage very random. Like there was so much talk about Ricciardo, but no footage.
How long did it take them to get footage of the Russel incident? Usually they are so quick with that.
The random timing of the replay of the start, in which we didn't see (potentially) some great things occurring, like how/when the hell did LeClerc jump 4 or 5 places in the first lap?


----------



## StevenC

Bodes said:


> Agreed. Is it because they do not have people around the track telling them what has happened so they can quickly grab the footage and discuss?
> I just found the coverage very random. Like there was so much talk about Ricciardo, but no footage.
> How long did it take them to get footage of the Russel incident? Usually they are so quick with that.
> The random timing of the replay of the start, in which we didn't see (potentially) some great things occurring, like how/when the hell did LeClerc jump 4 or 5 places in the first lap?


Yeah that's all the terrible world feed FOM TV director. The people who didn't show Sainz once last year. They were particularly bad this race. I did notice not really seeing the start in the usual lap 5 slot. I wonder if maybe there are just more cameras at Spa because it's so huge.

But that's all separate to Croft being unable to read the current order. 

F1 thinks it's got big problems with competition when really it's 90% about presentation from bad directors and miserable commentators.


----------



## Bodes

StevenC said:


> F1 thinks it's got big problems with competition when really it's 90% about presentation from bad directors and miserable commentators.



At least this year they can't focus on the celebrities standing in the back of the garages! That's a +1 for me!


----------



## r33per

Almost every race my wife and I comment on how the C4 coverage was much better. I just had ... well, personality. Sky's coverage can be pretty stale - Brundle excepted - and Croft is really not great. And yes, Belgium was especially bad for him.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Almost every race my wife and I comment on how the C4 coverage was much better. I just had ... well, personality. Sky's coverage can be pretty stale - Brundle excepted - and Croft is really not great. And yes, Belgium was especially bad for him.


I really appreciated Rosberg in Spain, surprisingly. He's usually either so dull or just there to talk about being a world champion, but in Spain he was just being an insightful, experienced racing driver a level above anyone else they ever have on. Even Jenson provides nothing to Sky.

But on the other hand C4 has Billy Monger and frankly it's a real shame that guy lost his legs and got famous.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> I really appreciated Rosberg in Spain, surprisingly. He's usually either so dull or just there to talk about being a world champion, but in Spain he was just being an insightful, experienced racing driver a level above anyone else they ever have on. Even Jenson provides nothing to Sky.
> 
> But on the other hand C4 has Billy Monger and frankly it's a real shame that guy lost his legs and got famous.


Yes, yes and yes.

In other news: no more Williams running Williams after Monza...


----------



## StevenC

I would just like to congratulate whoever came up with banning qualifying modes, because it made that qualification so close!


----------



## r33per

It was a pretty good session! That end of Q2 was a bit eyebrow raising, and great lap from Sainz.


----------



## StevenC

What in the world kind of race is this?!


----------



## StevenC

Anything can happen in Formula 1 and it usually does.


----------



## Dayviewer

And again when I'm away from home unable to watch, a crazy race happens 
Just saw the highlights, my god that was amazing 
I really hope we can see some more of this in the coming races!


----------



## bulb

Yeah that race was fucking insane, let's all thank KMag for his sacrifice.


----------



## r33per

That was good fun! I would have taken either Gasly or Sainz for the win - both drove really well.

Ferrari's race was just a sad summary of their whole season: not on the pace, driver errors and mechanical failures.

What about Lando's comment about the tyre changes during red flag conditions i.e. shouldn't be permitted (Stroll basically got a "free" pit stop): fair? Sour grapes?


----------



## Joan Maal

I remember same unfair situation at Monaco 2013... i think that cars should not be able to put new tires under a red flag.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> That was good fun! I would have taken either Gasly or Sainz for the win - both drove really well.
> 
> Ferrari's race was just a sad summary of their whole season: not on the pace, driver errors and mechanical failures.
> 
> What about Lando's comment about the tyre changes during red flag conditions i.e. shouldn't be permitted (Stroll basically got a "free" pit stop): fair? Sour grapes?


They keep changing the red flag rules with regard what you can change. A couple years ago it was just anything, then they made it semi parc ferme rules, and now it's just choice of tyre. I think the point being it's not that different to pitting under safety car vs another car that pitted a lap before.

Also they need to be able to change tyres under a red flag for changing conditions on safety grounds. I guess they could write a rule so that a car can't change to a different dry tyre compound than it is currently on, or that changing tyres under red doesn't count as your mandatory change. 

Seems like sour grapes from Lando. Don't think anyone can be upset about not getting the ideal result from a weird red flag situation. But also if Lance had to pit again he would have been at the back of the pack as well.


----------



## bulb

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that you can't get a free pitstop out of a red flag, as mentioned stroll would have been at the back of the pack, and got a podium instead. The current rule is the car must have two different compounds in a race, but they can amend it to the car must perform at least one pitstop per race as well, and then that would fix that.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that you can't get a free pitstop out of a red flag, as mentioned stroll would have been at the back of the pack, and got a podium instead. The current rule is the car must have two different compounds in a race, but they can amend it to the car must perform at least one pitstop per race as well, and then that would fix that.


Yeah, I just feel it's inconsistent to allow the advantage of pitting under a safety car but not under red flags. In most circumstances it's the same advantage, especially if one driver pits under SC and the other under red flags.

I get why you might not want cars to pit under reds, but I don't buy the argument about gaining an unfair advantage. Also, Sainz wasn't complaining about Gasly changing tyres during the red flag, but nobody's talking about that.


----------



## Dayviewer

Excited for Mugello coming up I love that track, qualifying should be interesting, the race? either a total snooze-fest or complete chaos, let's hope for the latter!
Mercedes just did a simulator track guide, the entire mid section is flat out and it seems they never go under 4th gear, it's going to be rough on the tires for sure


----------



## Dayviewer

Wowowow Perez is out! Doesnt have a plan b.
https://twitter.com/SChecoPerez/status/1303760511239151618

And Szafnauer shut the door on Vettel earlier today, so what the hell is next? 
https://www.essentiallysports.com/f...ntial-aston-martin-seat-in-bizarre-interview/


----------



## Dayviewer

So yeah, Vettel it is! 
https://twitter.com/RacingPointF1/status/1303952148875673600


----------



## StevenC

Glad Seb found a seat, but was hoping it'd be Red Bull so Perez could stay at the team he's done so much for.


----------



## Bodes

Should I be reading into the fact his picture is placed on the right side of the logo???
Bottas on the right, 'cos Hamilton. But Vettel on the right?
Edit: oh yeah, Stroll's daddy owns the company, or did he sell it for 2021 onwards?


----------



## Mathemagician

Bodes said:


> Should I be reading into the fact his picture is placed on the right side of the logo???
> Bottas on the right, 'cos Hamilton. But Vettel on the right?
> Edit: oh yeah, Stroll's daddy owns the company, or did he sell it for 2021 onwards?



Still owned by stroll, who has said he intends to pump even more money into the team. So doubtful.


----------



## StevenC

And you're telling me we've got a third race in Italy?


----------



## Dayviewer

StevenC said:


> And you're telling me we've got a third race in Italy?


Bring it on! 
Looking forward to the other newly added tracks as well.


----------



## StevenC

What a wild race!

Portimao and Imola will hopefully be a lot of fun too.

All credit to Lewis wearing that shirt on the podium, too. Say her name!


----------



## r33per

Sochi = 

What a difference between the gravel of Mugello and the turn 2 facepalm of Sochi. Not knocking the importance of following the race director's instructions, but the penalties just got boring.

Perez was great, though. And LEC - good drive from him and better team dynamics from everyone at Ferrari to pull that one off, me thinks.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Sochi =
> 
> What a difference between the gravel of Mugello and the turn 2 facepalm of Sochi. Not knocking the importance of following the race director's instructions, but the penalties just got boring.
> 
> Perez was great, though. And LEC - good drive from him and better team dynamics from everyone at Ferrari to pull that one off, me thinks.


The stewards in Russia were a complete joke and have been in general since Masi took over last year. Grosjean should not have gotten that penalty for not making the bollards. Drivers got away with it within reason on Saturday, as they should have, then they didn't apply that same rule on Sunday despite Sainz crashing trying to race through the bollards, and then later Grosjean tries his best. Then the whole Hamilton debacle. And then Leclerc being completely untouchable by the stewards despite becoming one of the dodgiest and incident prone racers on the grid.

Just so bad.


----------



## StevenC

Who would have thought Honda, of all engine suppliers, would drop out of F1 on a whim.


----------



## r33per

Oh dear - poor Stroll


Looking forward to a good race today!


----------



## StevenC

After today I really hope opinion finally starts changing on Max.


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea that was definitely his fault and he should stop overreacting so much, doesn’t look good on him.

race hasn’t been so exciting as I hoped it would be going from the first lap
Edit: Gaslyyy


----------



## r33per

HAM Masterclass. Superb.


----------



## StevenC

Max really loves causing unnecessary crashes with pink cars and then blaming everyone else. But I think this was his first time getting them both in one weekend.

I really enjoyed this race. Up until Hamilton's tyres started going off I didn't know who would win, and after that basically every position was contested. Kimi had a great race, Seb got points, George running in 7th for a while, Ocon's strategy, Gasly being good in the STR/AT and only that car. It was a good time. Really like Portimao.

Also Lewis is a racing god. 25 seconds over his teammate. Pole win fastest lap.


----------



## StevenC




----------



## StevenC

I enjoyed the race yesterday, but it was a very peculiar one. Was very dull until most of the field had pitted, but the tension of how successful the overcut would be for Raikkonen, Vettel, Russell, Perez and Hamilton was great. 

Super disappointed about George, but he's young and mistakes happen. I hope he gets his points soon because he really deserves them. Really good race from Hamilton. I know Bottas had damage, but he just had such a pace advantage.

Stroke of genius from Perez stealing Ocon's strategy from last week. But then the whole thing was thrown away by pitting. Shame about Pierre, but Kvyat made up the points well for AT.


----------



## r33per

Yeah it was a strange one. That half-a-wing they pulled out of VB's car was a bit of an eye popper.

And I think Albon will be asked to take a bow...


----------



## StevenC

Fucking Liberty Media pulling a Bernie and announcing a Saudi GP for 2021.


----------



## StevenC

Lance>Max and it's not even close


----------



## Vostre Roy

Fucking A, Stroll first pole position ever.

Might try to catch the race tomorrow, been years since I watched one


----------



## r33per

Aye, what a session. Great to see the Mercedes mixing it with the Alfa Romeos 

Hopefully no steward decisions will alter that grid - that would be a bit annoying. Tomorrow's race should be a good 'un!


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Fucking Liberty Media pulling a Bernie and announcing a Saudi GP for 2021.


And from what I read it'll be another night race. It's not like they can't do day-time races in that region due to heat or anything, if it works for Bahrain it probably works for Jeddah... does anyone even like watching those night races? 
As for tomorrows race... that sure looks promising. Nothing like a bit of rain to make things more interesting.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> And from what I read it'll be another night race. It's not like they can't do day-time races in that region due to heat or anything, if it works for Bahrain it probably works for Jeddah... does anyone even like watching those night races?
> As for tomorrows race... that sure looks promising. Nothing like a bit of rain to make things more interesting.


I think it's for TV time in the rest of the world. Same reason they try to push Japan and Malaysia late into the afternoon. I was in the US for the Malaysia GP one time and I think it was at 2am. 

Also, as we've seen with Bahrain, deserts look better when you can't see them.


----------



## StevenC

94 wins, 7WDC and still putting in the best performances of his career.


----------



## SD83

What a great race that was. And Hamilton... he could have parked his car in the garage after the formation lap and still claim the title today, and he knew that, and just went out there, won the thing and lapped Bottas. Outstanding performance from Vettel, Leclerc & Perez as well, I'm really looking forward to see what Racing Point/Aston Martin can do next year. Verstappen though... he probably could have won this, but that attempt at overtaking Perez was one of the most stupid moves I've seen any of the top drivers make in a long time. That's just the thing that separates a good driver from a great one, I guess.


----------



## r33per

That was outstanding, just a masterclass in patience and peerless skill. Us Brits should be trumpeting his victory: he has represented this country for 14 years in an elite international sport of which he has now emerged champion for half of those years. I'll always have a spot for Senna, but Hamilton is the GOAT for me - and that race weekend is the example of why.

Also, I must point out this race to everyone who says Max is Lewis' equal: all weekend VER had the better car and better position, and just threw it all away. Max may well get there one day, but he has a long way to go...

Delighted to see Vettel on the podium. A sweet moment in a bitter year.


----------



## StevenC

That's the scariest thing I've ever seen in an F1 race


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> That's the scariest thing I've ever seen in an F1 race


One of the slow motion camera angles of the Medic car turning up is horrendous. People making their way to what looks like a furnace, suddenly movement from the very centre of it and it's Grojean unbuckling his belts trying to get out.
I don't know how he was still conscious, because i thought whoever it was would be dead instantly from the impact when it first happened. Big fireball and the car smashed apart like it was Lego.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> That's the scariest thing I've ever seen in an F1 race


Same here. I've never seen a live race of a car in half and in flames. So violent.

Shame for Perez at the end - and for that one marshall blotting the copy book on the FIA's volunteers thanks day...


----------



## StevenC

Am I right in saying that Romain might not have got out if F1 had gone for the Red Bull/IndyCar Aeroscreen instead of the Halo? The footage showed him trying to get out through the top of the Halo, but the barrier was in the way and he had to climb out the side.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> Am I right in saying that Romain might not have got out if F1 had gone for the Red Bull/IndyCar Aeroscreen instead of the Halo? The footage showed him trying to get out through the top of the Halo, but the barrier was in the way and he had to climb out the side.



Quite possibly yeh.

Another interesting thing is that Grojean was against the Halo being introduced at the time. Lots of people are saying that he would have been decapitated today without it... I hope he comments on that when he's recovered.


----------



## StevenC

Fittipaldi is getting his F1 debut for Haas next weekend.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> That's the scariest thing I've ever seen in an F1 race


Probably. There were a few really ugly accidents in the past year, but that... it's just incredible how safe these cars have become. As for the halo saving his life, without it... his head is not as firmly attatched to his body as the halo is to the car, let's just leave it there. Seeing him literally rise out of the flames, climbing out of his car, was a relief. And an incredibly powerful image.
Perez still doesn't have a seat for 2021, does he?


----------



## eaeolian

I'm glad he's OK - at least relatively so - but I'm seriously beginning to wonder if he's backsliding into being a danger out there. The replays make it look like another vicious brainlock on his part.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> Probably. There were a few really ugly accidents in the past year, but that... it's just incredible how safe these cars have become. As for the halo saving his life, without it... his head is not as firmly attatched to his body as the halo is to the car, let's just leave it there. Seeing him literally rise out of the flames, climbing out of his car, was a relief. And an incredibly powerful image.
> Perez still doesn't have a seat for 2021, does he?


Perez has a press conference this evening. 


eaeolian said:


> I'm glad he's OK - at least relatively so - but I'm seriously beginning to wonder if he's backsliding into being a danger out there. The replays make it look like another vicious brainlock on his part.


He clearly didn't see Kvyat and it looked like he was trying to avoid the scuffle in front and Raikkonen rejoining. He has started being involved in every crash again though, Spain a few years ago driving across the track comes to mind. I've always like Romain, but I'll be glad without him on the grid. Not that Mazepin is at all inspiring safety wise, but Stroll and Latifi haven't been dangerous out there, so maybe.


----------



## Werecow

eaeolian said:


> I'm glad he's OK - at least relatively so - but I'm seriously beginning to wonder if he's backsliding into being a danger out there. The replays make it look like another vicious brainlock on his part.



I'm glad he's safe too. Under other circumstances i'd find it a lot more amusing, but he got given driver of the day when basically his whole race was driving off from the back of the grid, and then side-swiping into another car. Any other time it would have been a 5 or 10 second penalty for that.
I still remember that time when he span off in front of the pack and decided to stamp on the throttle and spin back onto the middle of the track in a cloud of tyre smoke. He does tend to get in some really dangerous situations entirely through his own actions.

I read he's been thinking of going to Indy Car. With the types of unforced errors he often has, i think he'd be a danger on the concrete wall ovals


----------



## eaeolian

Werecow said:


> I read he's been thinking of going to Indy Car. With the types of unforced errors he often has, i think he'd be a danger on the concrete wall ovals



Traffic isn't the same issue, though, not even on the road courses. However, I'm not sure you can fix his headstrongness in assuming no one will be occupying the space he'll be entering.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> I read he's been thinking of going to Indy Car. With the types of unforced errors he often has, i think he'd be a danger on the concrete wall ovals


At least ovals don't have standing starts, which have historically been his weak point.


----------



## Bodes

Werecow said:


> Quite possibly yeh.
> 
> Another interesting thing is that Grojean was against the Halo being introduced at the time. Lots of people are saying that he would have been decapitated today without it... I hope he comments on that when he's recovered.



Did you see his video from the hospital bed? It is on the F1 website, looks like it was originally posted on instagram.
A very scary incident, indeed.

Interesting forces for the car to act like a can opener on the barrier. Vettel has had a lot to say on them. Something along the lines of the teams were told the barriers were designed so they didn't do this.

I kind of want to see the onboard camera of the incident to see if that tells/shows us anything. 
Was his car's nose at the perfect height for the weak point of the barrier or was it just the force of impact and the shape of the barrier/car plus explosion the reason for it?


----------



## StevenC

Bodes said:


> Did you see his video from the hospital bed? It is on the F1 website, looks like it was originally posted on instagram.
> A very scary incident, indeed.
> 
> Interesting forces for the car to act like a can opener on the barrier. Vettel has had a lot to say on them. Something along the lines of the teams were told the barriers were designed so they didn't do this.
> 
> I kind of want to see the onboard camera of the incident to see if that tells/shows us anything.
> Was his car's nose at the perfect height for the weak point of the barrier or was it just the force of impact and the shape of the barrier/car plus explosion the reason for it?


The complete onboard was shown already, the rest of the footage was lost because the camera was destroyed before it could be encoded and sent.

It's just really unusual to see head on collisions with armco with such a straight trajectory and so much energy. Usually accidents are either side on and bounce off the wheels, or the car is already spinning, or head on accidents are usually Tecpro.


----------



## Bodes

Just read Lewis Hamilton has tested positive for COVID. Stoffel VanDoorne may step in, as he is their stand by driver...
It'd be interesting to see how well a mere mortal can drive that car.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ting-positive-for.43GvWfdyvajkyisofT26LX.html


----------



## Werecow

Bodes said:


> Did you see his video from the hospital bed? It is on the F1 website, looks like it was originally posted on instagram.
> A very scary incident, indeed.



Just watched it. Quite a dramatic turn around in his opinion on it you could say.


----------



## r33per

Bodes said:


> Just read Lewis Hamilton has tested positive for COVID. Stoffel VanDoorne may step in, as he is their stand by driver...
> It'd be interesting to see how well a mere mortal can drive that car.
> 
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ting-positive-for.43GvWfdyvajkyisofT26LX.html


Well, that's the various consecutive streaks brought to an end, I guess? Am I correct in saying that Lewis has never missed a race?

It's very interesting for VER and BOT. They would surely be odds on for a win on Sunday, regardless of who takes HAM's place.


----------



## Bodes

r33per said:


> Well, that's the various consecutive streaks brought to an end, I guess? Am I correct in saying that Lewis has never missed a race?
> 
> It's very interesting for VER and BOT. They would surely be odds on for a win on Sunday, regardless of who takes HAM's place.



Some one has outlined some of the stats that will be broken if he misses the next race: https://beyondtheflag.com/2020/12/01/formula-1-historic-implications-lewis-hamilton-absence/


----------



## StevenC

George Russell is driving the Mercedes and I couldn't be more excited!

Mick will be driving for Haas next year.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> George Russell is driving the Mercedes and I couldn't be more excited!
> 
> Mick will be driving for Haas next year.


Yes!


----------



## Bodes

I'm so happy for Russell. He seems like such a good driver, in a car that is arguably not suited the the F1 grid.


----------



## StevenC

Imagine pole, fastest lap and the win on your points debut!


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> Imagine pole, fastest lap and the win on your points debut!



Going from the slowest to the fastest car will be a pretty crazy experience for him. I hope he doesn't get too overwhelmed. A lot of people will be (unfairly) using it to measure him against Hamilton.


----------



## StevenC

A lot is on the line, like the shot at the his first record of most consecutive out qualifications against his teammate.


----------



## SD83

Werecow said:


> Going from the slowest to the fastest car will be a pretty crazy experience for him. I hope he doesn't get too overwhelmed. A lot of people will be (unfairly) using it to measure him against Hamilton.


Just watched the highlights of free practice 1 & 2... and Russell went fastest in both. That's almost scary


----------



## Bodes

And then the commentators kept saying "only due to Bottas not staying on the track"...
Inch or a mile, Russell did better than Bottas. It'd be great to see Russell take everything on offer this weekend. In saying that, the Mercs are hard on their tyres, so hopefully the crew are all on top of that. I have zero expectations, of where he should finish.


----------



## r33per

Some great qually performances yesterday.

That sub-1m track is so weird. Found it hard to get used to...


----------



## SD83

r33per said:


> Some great qually performances yesterday.
> 
> That sub-1m track is so weird. Found it hard to get used to...


There will be more cars per kilometer than on any other track (except Monaco if I'm not mistaken, but those two couldn't be more different), and qualifying times were really close. I'm hoping that will result in more wheel-to-wheel racing.


----------



## StevenC

This is the least fair thing that's ever happened.


----------



## SD83

What a race. I was hoping for some good racing, but that was well above my expectation. 
- Leclerc: that's probably the only way you can race in this years Ferrari. Go for the 50/50 chance crash vs. Top-10, otherwise you'll end up like Vettel.
- Mercedes: Wtf? That was the probably most Ferrari-thing anyone outside Ferrari has done in a long time. And Russell might still get disqualified due to it.
- Russell: Would have easily won. If anyone needed proof, that was it. Flawless racing. If he gets a decent car, we're looking at a future world champion.
- Perez: As much as I feel bad for Russell, perfect race from Perez. My first reaction to the first lap crash was "not Perez again...", and he came back from the last place to win the race. 

I totally wish Hamilton all the best and a speedy recovery, but I really wouldn't mind seeing Russell get a second chance in the last race.


----------



## Werecow

Toto said in an interview that the Pit crew's radio system failed, so they didn't even know there was a stop coming, let alone a double stop. I can understand the chaos more now rather than it just being incompetence. Still gutting for Russell though.


----------



## StevenC

If George gets disqualified I don't know how I'll take it. Roll on 2022.


----------



## r33per

Who will it be for third place constructor then?

Hoping Mclaren, thinking it'll actually be Racing Point.


----------



## StevenC

That was so boring I forgot to make a post until now.


----------



## Bodes

A couple of good stouches in the mid-pack. Other than that *yawn*


----------



## r33per

Aye. A processional end to an eventful season.

Well done McLaren!


----------



## SD83

Looks like Perez has signed with Red Bull to drive alongside Max Verstappen. 
I'm very curious to see where the teams stand next year, if I'm not mistaken Mercedes claimed somewhat mid-season that they were already focusing their developement entirely on 2021 instead of improving the pretty much unbeatable 2020 car, so the gap that Red Bull had come close to closing might be just as wide as it had been earlier this year, but who knows? At least Red Bull now might have two decent drivers. Albon had, in my opinion, shown his potential at a few races, but failed badly at others, I'm not sure if there was any other team where the gap between the two drivers was constantly that huge. But if Red Bull can keep up, it might actually be interesting for the constructors championship, as I don't think Mercedes has two similarly skilled drivers, Hamilton is WAY above Bottas in that terms. I'm not sure to what degree that is Bottas' fault, he seems to constantly have bad luck, if anything breaks on a Mercedes, it's usually on Bottas' car and it ocassionally seemed obvious they don't really want him to finish ahead of Hamilton, but Russell outraced him for most of that weekend, even while having the car explained to him mid-race...


----------



## StevenC

If Perez can't consistently finish behind Max in that car next year, Red Bull have a lot of introspection to do. It at least makes sense that two all but rookies struggled with the car, but Perez has been around. If he struggles I reckon we'll see some big operational changes at RB.


----------



## Bodes

Glad to see Perez with a seat. He seems both a great driver and a good bloke.
Red Bull have consistently shown they are a one driver team and only run a second car due to the F1 rules. So I hope Perez can get an equal car to drive as Max gets.


----------



## r33per

Well, Hamilton tops of 2020 with his second SPOTY.

Quite right


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Well, Hamilton tops of 2020 with his second SPOTY.
> 
> Quite right


Most successful sportsperson in Britain literally ever. Two SPOTY awards.


----------



## StevenC

As horrifying as it is that scum like Mazepin can get a place on the grid, at least now we've all got a villain on the grid and Haas will stop having fans just for being the American team with the team boss that swears a lot.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> As horrifying as it is that scum like Mazepin can get a place on the grid, at least now we've all got a villain on the grid and Haas will stop having fans just for being the American team with the team boss that swears a lot.



I will never stop supporting Haas for being the American team with the team boss that swears a lot. Never. 

But yeah Mazepin is gonna have to deliver consistently to make the haters back off. He’s set on money so risk of losing his seat is in “not gonna happen” territory for now.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475013

Sir Lewis!


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475013
> 
> Sir Lewis!


Finally!!! And quite right too!


----------



## StevenC

Does this mean DC needs to rename the Silverstone start finish straight again?


----------



## Werecow

I'm betting a commentator will use the line "Arise Sir Lewis Hamilton" as he crosses the line for his next win. Probably Crofty haha.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> I'm betting a commentator will use the line "Arise Sir Lewis Hamilton" as he crosses the line for his next win. Probably Crofty haha.


#StillIArise


----------



## TheTrooper

Damn haven't been here for a while.
So yeah, 2021 season coming up.
Predictions? (Yeah, no "Mercedes wins" we know that hahahahah)


----------



## StevenC

TheTrooper said:


> Damn haven't been here for a while.
> So yeah, 2021 season coming up.
> Predictions? (Yeah, no "Mercedes wins" we know that hahahahah)


Australia and China won't happen.
Checo will be quite close to Max once figuring out the car after a couple of races.
Lewis doesn't sign a contract until say 1 of testing.
Ferrari don't have as good an engine coming this year.
McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Renault have a close fight:

Lewis
Valtteri
Max
Checo
Daniel
Seb
Charles
Fred
Carlos 
Lando
Lance 
Esteban 
Yuki
Gasly
Kimi
Gio
Mick
George
He Who Must Not Be Named 
Nico L


----------



## TheTrooper

Oh


StevenC said:


> Australia and China won't happen.
> Checo will be quite close to Max once figuring out the car after a couple of races.
> Lewis doesn't sign a contract until say 1 of testing.
> Ferrari don't have as good an engine coming this year.
> McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Renault have a close fight:
> 
> Lewis
> Valtteri
> Max
> Checo
> Daniel
> Seb
> Charles
> *Fred*
> Carlos
> Lando
> Lance
> Esteban
> Yuki
> Gasly
> Kimi
> Gio
> Mick
> George
> He Who Must Not Be Named
> Nico L


Oh yeah forgot about Australia and China.
We might have 2 in Bharain and MAYBE Portimao and Imola again, or so they say.

I think Aston will do really well, like REALLY well.
And RedBull might even win this year, if the car is as good as it should be

(Who the hell is Fred?) 

Edit: Oh damn, Alonso Hahahahahahahahah (brain fart)


----------



## Werecow

I've no position predictions except the obvious top 3. I do predict many, _many_ incredibly awkward situations with "He Who Must Not Be Named" though. It's going to be difficult to watch in fact. I'm actually hoping the media just pretends he's not at each race.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> Australia and China won't happen.
> Checo will be quite close to Max once figuring out the car after a couple of races.
> Lewis doesn't sign a contract until say 1 of testing.
> Ferrari don't have as good an engine coming this year.
> McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Renault have a close fight:
> 
> Lewis
> Valtteri
> Max
> Checo
> Daniel
> Seb
> Charles
> Fred
> Carlos
> Lando
> Lance
> Esteban
> Yuki
> Gasly
> Kimi
> Gio
> Mick
> George
> He Who Must Not Be Named
> Nico L



I think/hope that McLaren can chase RB for second this year a bit, and I’m hoping Renault keeps building off 2020 and is able to really fight with McLaren. Not at all worried about the green Mercedes doing well too.

Hope we get some more races on wet days to see a bit more driver skill come into play.

I wouldn’t put Tsunoda over Gasly if the season was shorter, but with 23 (allegedly) races he might just take off. I didn’t follow F2 but people are hyped.

I’m praying that Haas get closer to Alfa Romeo. Not expecting too too much from Williams until 2022 when they take more from Mercedes. But damn do I want to be surprised.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Australia and China won't happen.
> Checo will be quite close to Max once figuring out the car after a couple of races.
> Lewis doesn't sign a contract until say 1 of testing.
> Ferrari don't have as good an engine coming this year.
> McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Renault have a close fight:
> 
> Lewis
> Valtteri
> Max
> Checo
> Daniel
> Seb
> Charles
> Fred
> Carlos
> Lando
> Lance
> Esteban
> Yuki
> Gasly
> Kimi
> Gio
> Mick
> George
> He Who Must Not Be Named
> Nico L


"Fred"


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Australia and China won't happen.
> Checo will be quite close to Max once figuring out the car after a couple of races.
> Lewis doesn't sign a contract until say 1 of testing.
> Ferrari don't have as good an engine coming this year.
> McLaren, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Renault have a close fight:
> 
> Lewis
> Valtteri
> Max
> Checo
> Daniel
> Seb
> Charles
> Fred
> Carlos
> Lando
> Lance
> Esteban
> Yuki
> Gasly
> Kimi
> Gio
> Mick
> George
> He Who Must Not Be Named
> Nico L



Haven't been following the developements for2021 too closely and no real clue as to how good the new drivers are, so this is probably more of an uneducated guess, but it would be interesting to see at the end of the season just how far off I was so here we go:


Hamilton. Best car, probably best driver. The only man right now who can beat Lewis Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton.
Verstappen. Not sure about the next two, but if Red Bull don't screw up, and Verstappen keeps his cool, he should be able to beat Bottas.

Perez. 

Bottas. No offense to Valtteri, but lately it seemed to me he is more of a decent driver in a superior car than anything else...
Ricciardo
Vettel
Alonso
Norris
Leclerc
Stroll

Sainz
Ocon
Gasly
Räikkönen
Tsunoda
Giovinazzi
Schumacher
Russell
That Russian guy
Latifi


----------



## Werecow

I think what i'm looking forward to most is the comparison between Checo and Max, with Max facing a known good driver again. Also whether Vettel will get some confidence back with his move, and cut out some of the bad mistakes & bad decisions he makes on track at the moment.


----------



## StevenC

28 March – Bahrain (Sakhir)
18 April - Italy (Imola*)
2 May - TBC
9 May – Spain (Barcelona)
23 May – Monaco (Monaco)
6 June – Azerbaijan (Baku)
13 June – Canada (Montreal)
27 June – France (Le Castellet)
4 July – Austria (Spielberg)
18 July – United Kingdom (Silverstone)
1 August – Hungary (Budapest)
29 August – Belgium (Spa)
5 September – Netherlands (Zandvoort)
12 September – Italy (Monza)
26 September – Russia (Sochi)
3 October – Singapore (Singapore)
10 October – Japan (Suzuka)
24 October – USA (Austin)
31 October – Mexico (Mexico City)
7 November – Brazil (Sao Paulo)
21 November - Australia (Melbourne*)
5 December - Saudi Arabia (Jeddah**)
12 December - Abu Dhabi (Yas Island)
New calendar. Round 3 potentially Portimao.


----------



## Werecow

It's going to be another crazy/weird season i think. I wouldn't be surprised if it was majorly disrupted with countries trying to keep out the UK's new covid variant.


----------



## TheTrooper

Test moved to Bahrain 2 weeks before round 1


----------



## StevenC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56040612

Alonso fractured his jaw after a cycling accident.


----------



## Kobalt

StevenC said:


> Round 3 potentially Portimao.


Instant.
Automatic.
Win.

What a track. The fact that no one or very few had been there before made it even better; everyone had to start from scratch.


----------



## TheTrooper

I like the new cars.
Alfa/Sauber is really cool


----------



## Kobalt

TheTrooper said:


> I like the new cars.
> Alfa/Sauber is really cool


I'm disappointed in the new AlphaTauri, I much prefer the previous one, there's something about the split colors with the pinstripe that's just off for me.

But that Alfa, ooooh boy. It was sexy before, it is even more now. Was a really big fan of the 2010-2012 Sauber's, so this Alfa is a homerun for me.


----------



## StevenC

The new AT livery is atrocious.


----------



## TheTrooper

The Aston is breathtaking.


----------



## Mathemagician

TheTrooper said:


> The Aston is breathtaking.



Agreed.


----------



## Dayviewer

And then the American team comes around with a Russian livery 

Anyway, here are mine predictions for the season 

1: Lewis
2: Max (I'm Dutch, I want him to win, but let's be fair, it probably ain't gonna happen again this year)
3: Bottas
4: Perez (I think he and Bottas are gonna be super close though)
5: Ricciardo
6: Vettel (Bold choice maybe, but I want him to )
7: Lando
8: Alonso
9: Lec
10: Sainz

Making this I realised how frigging tight the midfield is, I'm so hyped for it.


----------



## Mathemagician

Dayviewer said:


> Making this I realised how frigging tight the midfield is, I'm so hyped for it.



I feel like F1TV last season basically ignored the top 3 places unless someone was literally getting passed in that moment. Otherwise it was midfield madness and I’m here for it.


----------



## Werecow

TheTrooper said:


> The Aston is breathtaking.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Evp022EWQAgeMqH?format=jpg&name=4096x4096


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> And then the American team comes around with a Russian livery
> 
> Anyway, here are mine predictions for the season
> 
> 1: Lewis
> 2: Max (I'm Dutch, I want him to win, but let's be fair, it probably ain't gonna happen again this year)
> 3: Bottas
> 4: Perez (I think he and Bottas are gonna be super close though)
> 5: Ricciardo
> 6: Vettel (Bold choice maybe, but I want him to )
> 7: Lando
> 8: Alonso
> 9: Lec
> 10: Sainz
> 
> Making this I realised how frigging tight the midfield is, I'm so hyped for it.



Lewis
Bottas
Max
Checo
Seb
Daniel
Chuck
Lance
Norris
Sainz

2 to 4 will be shockingly close like Kimi, Max and Bottas in 2018.
Seb will be relatively on his own for most of the season and have 5th nailed on by the time Lewis secures 1st.
Aston 3rd fastest but Lance will have Bottas luck.
McLaren and Ferrari will be quite close in pace but Ferrari strategy will cost them.
Chuck will drive through the insanity like Seb in 2016 to save his season and Carlos will follow team orders getting Seb 2020'd.

Alonso
Esteban
Yuki
Pierre
Kimi
George
Gio
Nico
Mick

Alpine sucks and Fernando complains all year, has twice the points of Esteban but only because they're fighting to score anything.
Alpine can sneak up on Carlos, Lando and Lance when they're having bad days but clearly the 6th best car.
AT has a very mediocre season because they don't have consecutive good seasons.
Yuki is a massive highlight scoring a point in Bahrain, Pierre is unimpressive again and Kvyat becomes more of an enigma.
Alfa is a decent car again this year but lack of budget and Kimi only caring every other week costs them.
Williams is another step in the right direction, George only ever misses Q2 due to technical issues and scores his first points for the team.
Haas rue their decision to only run 1 driver in 2021 despite him being the son of a 7x WDC, the car is terrible because no one in the team knows what they're doing anymore and they have a rookie driver. Team gets sold before scheduled USA race that doesn't happen anyway.


----------



## Mathemagician

Williams be trying to get me to buy a scale model toy. Damn son.


----------



## Dayviewer

Mathemagician said:


> Williams be trying to get me to buy a scale model toy. Damn son.


I don't know if this is a compliment or an insult, and seeing the general reactions across the web it could totally be both haha.
Still don't know what to think of it myself but I definitely applaud them for trying something different!


----------



## Mathemagician

I. Love. It.


----------



## Werecow

Speaking of the Williams... This isn't going to help their image this year.


----------



## Kobalt

Alonso is looking like he hasn't missed a beat in testing, while Vettel seemed cautious - understandable since he ended up having gearbox issues. Being that I started getting into F1 around 2011 when these two were fighting off each other all the time (especially in 2012), I really want both of them to get back to top form and give the Mercs a run, or at the very least RB.

As for liveries, Alfa, Alpine, Aston, in that order for me. Didn't expect to like the Aston at all, especially after they announced they retained BWT, but they did very well.

Too early to make predictions, testing is all sandbagging and data collection. We'll know what's really going on in R1.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56388596 

RIP Murray, the voice of the sport


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56388596
> 
> RIP Murray, the voice of the sport


Gutted. What a wonderful man.


----------



## StevenC

How do they keep making Drive to Survive worse every year? Fake commentary over testing is just such pointless nonsense. It's one thing hyping up testing in March or February, but giving any mention to it when you have the full season results in front of you is just stupid.

As a side note, this show is sooooooooo slow. I've been watching on 1.5x, it's only barely noticeable and it still seems so padded. It's 17 Grand Prix condensed into 60 minutes and then stretched to 400 minutes. It's longer than the damn Season Review and has almost no content.


----------



## Dayviewer

Could this finally be it? Am I dreaming?


----------



## StevenC

GOAT doing GOAT things


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> GOAT doing GOAT things


Yeh, respect. Driving like that with a slower car on older tyres.


----------



## Dayviewer

If the rest of the season will be like this I'm happy to sign up nomatter who wins, bring it


----------



## bulb

What an awesome race


----------



## SD83

Just watched the highlights... for the first time ever, there is no Formula One on free TV in Germany, and if that race is anything to go by it might be one of the best seasons in a long time.


----------



## r33per

Loved it, great opener.

A lot of good performances in that race, to be fair - McLarens, Ferraris, Tsunoda, Perez. Vettel and Mazepin on the other hand...


----------



## Werecow

r33per said:


> Loved it, great opener.
> 
> A lot of good performances in that race, to be fair - McLarens, Ferraris, Tsunoda, Perez. Vettel and Mazepin on the other hand...


Mazepin's start is exactly what i want to see from him the rest of the season.

I don't get Vettel. Outside of the car he seems really together and likeable, but inside he'll have races where he either looks like someone driving an F1 car for the first time, turn into a psycho, or become genuinely mentally deluded like today when he insisted Ocon changed lanes and moved over on him.


----------



## bulb

Mazepin taking care of himself in the 2nd corner.
This season has so much promise, I can't wait for more Max and Lewis battles. Yuki comes storming out of the gates. Mclaren and Ferrari both looking competitive, more surprised by Ferrari but Sam Collins absolutely called that even though everyone thought he was crazy for saying so.
Perez might just be the perfect wingman for Max.


----------



## bulb

Werecow said:


> Mazepin's start is exactly what i want to see from him the rest of the season.
> 
> I don't get Vettel. Outside of the car he seems really together and likeable, but inside he'll have races where he either looks like someone driving an F1 car for the first time, turn into a psycho, or become genuinely mentally deluded like today when he insisted Ocon changed lanes and moved over on him.



Vettel's move today was either a mistake made from very poor judgment, or it's a sign he's lost his spark. Admittedly the low rake cars did get fucked, so ironically he once again finds himself in a car with balance issues, but today's crash into Ocon had little to do with balance. I like him a lot and I hope he finds his way this season, but it's pretty clear at this point, if Stroll fares better than him, they will likely not keep Vettel.


----------



## Werecow

bulb said:


> Vettel's move today was either a mistake made from very poor judgment, or it's a sign he's lost his spark. Admittedly the low rake cars did get fucked, so ironically he once again finds himself in a car with balance issues, but today's crash into Ocon had little to do with balance. I like him a lot and I hope he finds his way this season, but it's pretty clear at this point, if Stroll fares better than him, they will likely not keep Vettel.


The weirdest thing is when he blames those mistakes on something that very clearly didn't happen. He's done that quite a few times before.

I'm just waiting for one where he says the barrier jumped out at him


----------



## r33per

Also, what was with the lack of podium celebration? I get that Max and Bottas were pretty "meh" about the results, but they're all much more professional than to just clink the bottles and walk off.

All I could come up with is that it was some kind of "sparkling water" protest, what with the Kingdom being a "dry" country.


----------



## TheTrooper

bulb said:


> Vettel's move today was either a mistake made from very poor judgment, or it's a sign he's lost his spark. Admittedly the low rake cars did get fucked, so ironically he once again finds himself in a car with balance issues, but today's crash into Ocon had little to do with balance. I like him a lot and I hope he finds his way this season, but it's pretty clear at this point, if Stroll fares better than him, they will likely not keep Vettel.


Great race, very eventful, and one of the better first race of the last 10 years.

Fully agree, a shame Seb had so much trouble during this weekend; hopefully he can get back on track with the Aston.

He did get 5 points though..........deducted from his superlicense.

(I really really thought Astom martin was going to be 3rd quickest........)


----------



## eaeolian

r33per said:


> Loved it, great opener.
> 
> A lot of good performances in that race, to be fair - McLarens, Ferraris, Tsunoda, Perez. Vettel and Mazepin on the other hand...



Did anyone really expect anything else out of Mazepin?

Why can't Jeff Bezos be interested in F1? Haas is not getting it done.


----------



## Kobalt

r33per said:


> All I could come up with is that it was some kind of "sparkling water" protest, what with the Kingdom being a "dry" country.


Yup. The water doesn't bubble up like champagne and it apparently tastes like ass, so the drivers just don't bother. I thought it was pretty funny. 


As for Mazepin, I don't believe this guy will finish the season in F1. He has shown no talent, in testing, or in the three turns of the race he participated in. You don't want that kind of danger on a race track. Either the FIA will look into revoking his Super License, or someone, a team, will start protesting his seat in the sport.


----------



## Kobalt

bulb said:


> Admittedly the low rake cars did get fucked, so ironically he once again finds himself in a car with balance issues


This is the most painful irony I've ever felt watching F1... I think everyone wanted him to blast out of the grid and be super competitive, but wow was that a disappointment. In the end though, this is a much needed shuffle, just the simple fact that this has made Ferrari competitive is like a breath of fresh air, whether you're a fan of them or not.


----------



## StevenC

Two stunning laps that nobody could touch.

99 poles at 30 different circuits.


----------



## Kobalt

I was going to be soooo happy for Lando. 

He's been absolutely killing it, this guy needs all the backing he needs to become a World Champion some day.


----------



## Mathemagician

eaeolian said:


> Did anyone really expect anything else out of Mazepin?
> 
> Why can't Jeff Bezos be interested in F1? Haas is not getting it done.



Because F1 doesn’t race space ships or some other sci-fi shit, lol. Man I would love to see Haas do better though, it’s fun to chant “U. S. A.” at everything. 

So I have a very unique and original hot take here but: those Honda engines are spicy. I’m not ashamed to say it, they are caliente. 

But yeah if the qualifying grid (and Lando’s lap) are anything to go by this race should shape up to be quite interesting.


----------



## Kobalt

Mathemagician said:


> So I have a very unique and original hot take here but: those Honda engines are spicy. I’m not ashamed to say it, they are caliente.


It's another painful irony that they seem to have developed a very good engine for their final year in the sport.

Just imagine if Red Bull were to REALLY challenge the Mercs all year... How do you justify leaving the sport then, right?


----------



## StevenC

I have come to once again complain about dotd voting.

And cry for my boy George.


----------



## Kobalt

StevenC said:


> I have come to once again complain about dotd voting.
> 
> And cry for my boy George.


What's wrong with Lando? Once the team released him from Danny, he just flew!

About Russell and Bottas, heh I think George miscalculated his approach. When you look at the replay on slow-motion, Bottas just keeps to the dry line, albeit moving slightly to the right of it, but there were no sudden jolts. It's a racing incident for me. It sucks for George, because he's lost many great possible finishes lately, so I understand his frustrations. And the sheer fact that he was overtaking a Mercedes in a Williams just once again showed how Bottas is average at best and only really shines when he's in Hammer's tow.


----------



## StevenC

Kobalt said:


> What's wrong with Lando? Once the team released him from Danny, he just flew!
> 
> About Russell and Bottas, heh I think George miscalculated his approach. When you look at the replay on slow-motion, Bottas just keeps to the dry line, albeit moving slightly to the right of it, but there were no sudden jolts. It's a racing incident for me. It sucks for George, because he's lost many great possible finishes lately, so I understand his frustrations. And the sheer fact that he was overtaking a Mercedes in a Williams just once again showed how Bottas is average at best and only really shines when he's in Hammer's tow.


Lando got his podium because of the red flag and didn't really do much else. He would have been 20 seconds behind Chuck otherwise. He seemed to do better than the Ferraris at the end but got lucky with Perez spinning off to have a podium even with the red flag. Lando was faster than his teammate, sure, but his race wasn't that impressive otherwise.

Verstappen was second in voting for some reason. He won the race while having arguably the fastest car and rarely ever being the fastest driver. He was faster at the start while Lewis was dealing with a stake dangling around, then was the same speed as Lewis for a good chunk of time, then was significantly slower in the crossover period and was losing time again on the mediums before the red flag. In the closing stages Lewis had the fastest lap even after overtaking 7 cars, and only had such a gap because again Lewis had to overtake 7 cars. Had they been first and second at the restart, the gap wouldn't be there and Lewis had a good shot at the win.

If you want to make the argument that Lewis shouldn't get it because he spun, Max nearly binned it and took Chuck with him behind the safety car. Plenty of drivers have won dotd after spinning and having a great recovery drive, its basically how you win dotd.

Lando Norris has 3 dotd in 2 years and 2 races. Max has 28 dotd and 11 wins. Lewis has 8 dotd and 53 wins. Daniel Ricciardo also has 8. Dotd is a stupid award that they should get rid of because it's unrepresentative of anything but what decent drive has the most fans.


----------



## Mathemagician

Kobalt said:


> What's wrong with Lando? Once the team released him from Danny, he just flew!
> 
> About Russell and Bottas, heh I think George miscalculated his approach. When you look at the replay on slow-motion, Bottas just keeps to the dry line, albeit moving slightly to the right of it, but there were no sudden jolts. It's a racing incident for me. It sucks for George, because he's lost many great possible finishes lately, so I understand his frustrations. And the sheer fact that he was overtaking a Mercedes in a Williams just once again showed how Bottas is average at best and only really shines when he's in Hammer's tow.



Yeah I mean, on one hand Russell has thoroughly embarrassed Bottas at this point. It was a tough race on the wet so Bottas couldn’t just rely on the car doing it’s thing and bro it shows. However, it did look like Russel just got a bit too greedy and rushed an overtake he might otherwise have been able to make a bit later. He’s not a rookie anymore and while these things happen, still.



StevenC said:


> Lando got his podium because of the red flag and didn't really do much else. He would have been 20 seconds behind Chuck otherwise. He seemed to do better than the Ferraris at the end but got lucky with Perez spinning off to have a podium even with the red flag. Lando was faster than his teammate, sure, but his race wasn't that impressive otherwise.
> 
> Verstappen was second in voting for some reason. He won the race while having arguably the fastest car and rarely ever being the fastest driver. He was faster at the start while Lewis was dealing with a stake dangling around, then was the same speed as Lewis for a good chunk of time, then was significantly slower in the crossover period and was losing time again on the mediums before the red flag. In the closing stages Lewis had the fastest lap even after overtaking 7 cars, and only had such a gap because again Lewis had to overtake 7 cars. Had they been first and second at the restart, the gap wouldn't be there and Lewis had a good shot at the win.
> 
> If you want to make the argument that Lewis shouldn't get it because he spun, Max nearly binned it and took Chuck with him behind the safety car. Plenty of drivers have won dotd after spinning and having a great recovery drive, its basically how you win dotd.
> 
> Lando Norris has 3 dotd in 2 years and 2 races. Max has 28 dotd and 11 wins. Lewis has 8 dotd and 53 wins. Daniel Ricciardo also has 8. Dotd is a stupid award that they should get rid of because it's unrepresentative of anything but what decent drive has the most fans.



So to me DOTD is not about best drive, it’s about most interesting. If you spin out from P14 to P20 and get back up to P10, you’re likely to win DOTD.

IMO, Lando won because he put on a great show and held position against full works teams by getting into position early and gambling on like 30 laps of soft tires.


----------



## bulb

lando good
mazepin bad


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> So to me DOTD is not about best drive, it’s about most interesting. If you spin out from P14 to P20 and get back up to P10, you’re likely to win DOTD.
> 
> IMO, Lando won because he put on a great show and held position against full works teams by getting into position early and gambling on like 30 laps of soft tires.


Yeah, I agree. But the most interesting drive was probably the one about whom the world feed went from showing DNF stat graphics while in the wall/gravel to "12 seconds from VER" in the space of like 3 racing laps. Literally lapped to second. Compared to Lando's post red flag antics of overtaking a car using a tyre advantage, not ever being attacked back by that car, losing the place to a third car, and never troubling the leader on pace once.

Want to guess what Hamilton's last dotd win was? It wasn't winning a race with great strategy and defending in a slower car in Bahrain 2021. It wasn't winning a 7th title in dramatic fashion in wild weather conditions, taking a car that didn't show pace all weekend and turning out a dominant win in Turkey. Nope! Max has a boring win in the best car at the 70th Anniversary GP? Obvious dotd.

Lewis has to win a race on three wheels to get the dotd nod, Max Verstappen got in Sochi last year basically for turning up. Nico Hulkenberg literally got one for turning up. It's a dumb award that is dumb.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> Yeah, I agree. But the most interesting drive was probably the one about whom the world feed went from showing DNF stat graphics while in the wall/gravel to "12 seconds from VER" in the space of like 3 racing laps. Literally lapped to second. Compared to Lando's post red flag antics of overtaking a car using a tyre advantage, not ever being attacked back by that car, losing the place to a third car, and never troubling the leader on pace once.
> 
> Want to guess what Hamilton's last dotd win was? It wasn't winning a race with great strategy and defending in a slower car in Bahrain 2021. It wasn't winning a 7th title in dramatic fashion in wild weather conditions, taking a car that didn't show pace all weekend and turning out a dominant win in Turkey. Nope! Max has a boring win in the best car at the 70th Anniversary GP? Obvious dotd.
> 
> Lewis has to win a race on three wheels to get the dotd nod, Max Verstappen got in Sochi last year basically for turning up. Nico Hulkenberg literally got one for turning up. It's a dumb award that is dumb.



Yeah it’s a people choice award, and those are notoriously worse than industry awards which themselves are usually rigged/uninspired. I def think Lewis could have deserved it, but his show came at like the 90% mark of the race and I bet the bulk of the votes were in much earlier than that.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah it’s a people choice award, and those are notoriously worse than industry awards which themselves are usually rigged/uninspired. I def think Lewis could have deserved it, but his show came at like the 90% mark of the race and I bet the bulk of the votes were in much earlier than that.


Voting opens with about 10% to 15% of the race to go usually. Driver of the day is a joke award that only exists to annoy me.


----------



## Kobalt

StevenC said:


> Lando got his podium because of the red flag and didn't really do much else. He would have been 20 seconds behind Chuck otherwise. He seemed to do better than the Ferraris at the end but got lucky with Perez spinning off to have a podium even with the red flag. Lando was faster than his teammate, sure, but his race wasn't that impressive otherwise.
> 
> Verstappen was second in voting for some reason. He won the race while having arguably the fastest car and rarely ever being the fastest driver. He was faster at the start while Lewis was dealing with a stake dangling around, then was the same speed as Lewis for a good chunk of time, then was significantly slower in the crossover period and was losing time again on the mediums before the red flag. In the closing stages Lewis had the fastest lap even after overtaking 7 cars, and only had such a gap because again Lewis had to overtake 7 cars. Had they been first and second at the restart, the gap wouldn't be there and Lewis had a good shot at the win.
> 
> If you want to make the argument that Lewis shouldn't get it because he spun, Max nearly binned it and took Chuck with him behind the safety car. Plenty of drivers have won dotd after spinning and having a great recovery drive, its basically how you win dotd.
> 
> Lando Norris has 3 dotd in 2 years and 2 races. Max has 28 dotd and 11 wins. Lewis has 8 dotd and 53 wins. Daniel Ricciardo also has 8. Dotd is a stupid award that they should get rid of because it's unrepresentative of anything but what decent drive has the most fans.


Oh, I understand. Hammer's so good it actually pissed me off. That was again, undeniably impressive.

But I think people just ignore him in DOTD because he always wins everything else. Look at the world titles, look at the records, you know the drill...it's the one thing people have the chance to NOT make him win.


----------



## Kobalt

I actually got mad at him at the checkered flag. I was like WHYYYYY ARE YOU STILL HERE?!!!! 

Remember that scene in Snatch when Tony just keeps shooting Boris and he won't fucking die? SAME THING.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Lando got his podium because of the red flag and didn't really do much else. He would have been 20 seconds behind Chuck otherwise. He seemed to do better than the Ferraris at the end but got lucky with Perez spinning off to have a podium even with the red flag. Lando was faster than his teammate, sure, but his race wasn't that impressive otherwise.
> 
> Verstappen was second in voting for some reason. He won the race while having arguably the fastest car and rarely ever being the fastest driver. He was faster at the start while Lewis was dealing with a stake dangling around, then was the same speed as Lewis for a good chunk of time, then was significantly slower in the crossover period and was losing time again on the mediums before the red flag. In the closing stages Lewis had the fastest lap even after overtaking 7 cars, and only had such a gap because again Lewis had to overtake 7 cars. Had they been first and second at the restart, the gap wouldn't be there and Lewis had a good shot at the win.
> 
> If you want to make the argument that Lewis shouldn't get it because he spun, Max nearly binned it and took Chuck with him behind the safety car. Plenty of drivers have won dotd after spinning and having a great recovery drive, its basically how you win dotd.
> 
> Lando Norris has 3 dotd in 2 years and 2 races. Max has 28 dotd and 11 wins. Lewis has 8 dotd and 53 wins. Daniel Ricciardo also has 8. Dotd is a stupid award that they should get rid of because it's unrepresentative of anything but what decent drive has the most fans.


+1

Sometimes a bit rough, but a reasonably enjoyable race.
As for Kimi, Seb and Fred - well. It's a bit embarrassing watching WDC winners squabbling about for a double-figure position finish.


----------



## r33per

Breezy out there today.
My wife is due pretty much any time now. If baby arrives tomorrow, it mind end up being called Portimao...


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Breezy out there today.
> My wife is due pretty much any time now. If baby arrives tomorrow, it mind end up being called Portimao...


So if Lewis wins, the baby gets a Marshall; if Max wins the baby gets a Hook; if Sergio wins, the baby gets an EVH; and if Valtteri wins, the baby gets a Diezel?


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> So if Lewis wins, the baby gets a Marshall; if Max wins the baby gets a Hook; if Sergio wins, the baby gets an EVH; and if Valtteri wins, the baby gets a Diezel?


Either way, baby gets an Ibby


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Either way, baby gets an Ibby


I get it!!!


----------



## r33per

r33per said:


> Breezy out there today.
> My wife is due pretty much any time now. If baby arrives tomorrow, it mind end up being called Portimao...


And funnily enough, we're now in the labour ward! Anyways, wrong thread: over to the "why I'm happy" thread in a few hours


----------



## StevenC

Good race today. Shame Bottas had the issue, or it could have been really exciting at the end.

Good race from Alonso, probably he or Hamilton had the best race. Also Leclerc had a great day out, but I'm starting to wonder about Sainz now that he's getting real competition. Too early to tell for sure though.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> Good race today. Shame Bottas had the issue, or it could have been really exciting at the end.
> 
> Good race from Alonso, probably he or Hamilton had the best race. Also Leclerc had a great day out, but I'm starting to wonder about Sainz now that he's getting real competition. Too early to tell for sure though.



I'm starting to wonder a bit about Ricciardo as well. Before the season i expected him to massacre Norris. Then the Mclaren boss said Norris had made a big step forward as a driver over the winter, and it really seems like it. Still, i did not expect qualifying to go like this race, opposite ends of the grid in Q1.
In the Last race Norris was in a totally different league as well.
I can see some struggle moving to a new team, but Ricciardo keeps looking like he's outclassed or even doesn't deserve his place in the team at the moment.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> I'm starting to wonder a bit about Ricciardo as well. Before the season i expected him to massacre Norris. Then the Mclaren boss said Norris had made a big step forward as a driver over the winter, and it really seems like it. Still, i did not expect qualifying to go like this race, opposite ends of the grid in Q1.
> In the Last race Norris was in a totally different league as well.
> I can see some struggle moving to a new team, but Ricciardo keeps looking like he's outclassed or even doesn't deserve his place in the team at the moment.


He was slow to pick up the pace at Renault, too, and quali yesterday was wild overall. Presumably he'll get on the pace soon and start showing his ability, because I've never seen any reason to think Norris is _this_ good. That would be a huge leap over one winter.


----------



## SD83

I'm time and time again amazed by Hamiltons persistence. He did win all there is to win in F1, and then some more, he holds basically every possible record (and he's probably stupidly rich by now), and he's still perfectly focused, he still almost desperately wants to win every single race... that's great to see. 
So far, biggest disappointment is Vettel who is still absolutely useless in his Aston, the biggest suprise is probably Norris.


----------



## Bodes

Can we please reserve the term "useless" to Mazepin???

Finished 1 min behind team mate, Schumacher or not, both have the same amount of race experience. 
Thinks he is driving dodge-em cars, or is completely unaware of his surroundings. 
Please take his licence off him, before he kills someone!


----------



## Werecow

Bodes said:


> Can we please reserve the term "useless" to Mazepin???
> 
> Finished 1 min behind team mate, Schumacher or not, both have the same amount of race experience.
> Thinks he is driving dodge-em cars, or is completely unaware of his surroundings.
> Please take his licence off him, before he kills someone!


I was preferring to never acknowledge he exists, but yeh he's getting dangerous out there now that he hasn't spun off at the first turn.


----------



## Kobalt

StevenC said:


> but I'm starting to wonder about Sainz now that he's getting real competition. Too early to tell for sure though.


To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari is just giving the edge to Leclerc. Much like Red Bull, Ferrari has always been a 1-driver team. Yeah they got a good pairing, but Charles has been their guy ever since he joined, and I never believed it was a good move for Carlos to be going there.



StevenC said:


> He was slow to pick up the pace at Renault, too, and quali yesterday was wild overall. Presumably he'll get on the pace soon and start showing his ability, because I've never seen any reason to think Norris is _this_ good. That would be a huge leap over one winter.


Indeed, Danny had a slow climb at Renault as well. He seems to be a bit of a perfectionist and needs to work out all the details before he can really start pushing.

As for Lando, he's amazing. I hope this kid goes the distance, he's my favourite on the grid at the moment. Super cool guy, great talent at the wheel, always competitive yet fair with everyone.



SD83 said:


> So far, biggest disappointment is Vettel who is still absolutely useless in his Aston


Let's not pretend Stroll is doing any better. Now that the car isn't a carbon copy of the Mercedes anymore, are we really that surprised they've fallen back to their midfield slot? I think we all had our hopes up for the new Aston Martin team and Vettel, but I guess we were brought back to reality.


----------



## Mathemagician

Honestly I thought it was food race all around a real fight for P1, and some great fights across the upper mid pack. 

Imo, Sainz went to Ferrari to go to Ferrari. I don’t think he expected to upend the guy with a 6 year contract at least not immediately. 

I’m about to buy McLaren merch since the the de-facto US team and prior to this season I would have told you it would have Daniels name on it but Landoooooo has been crushing it and throwing that car into consistent top 5’s.

I really hope Aston Martin can work out all their little gremlins to push the midpack. 

Alonso showing some real zest in his race which I’m glad to see him and Ocon getting points. 

Ah Haas. That’s all I’ll spend letters on with them.


----------



## StevenC

To be fair to Aston Martin, I don't think Otmar is entirely wrong with his low rake comments. Maybe it wasn't an intentional hit on them, but FI/RP have been a top 5 car and capable of podiums pretty much every year since 2014. I don't it was unreasonable to expect them to produce a car this year that was at least around where Ferrari and McLaren are, since that's where they've been lately.

Though, on the the other hand FI/RP have never been a team to come up with the unique solutions that get copied when not leading the pack, in the way McLaren have recently.


----------



## r33per

Caught up with it last night/this morning.

I think Sainz got hit by the usual Ferrari issue: strategy. What was it- 45 lap old Mediums by the end? Must have been a nightmare to drive. There'll be more to it than that, but it won't have helped!

Great to see Mazepin bringing the fight to Perez during the race. Looking forward to the inside track on that rivalry in DtS4.

Hamilton was great (quelle suprise!) - not perfect, but rather another fine example of how one makes a mistake/error of judgement, moves on, and then overcome. GOAT


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Caught up with it last night/this morning.
> 
> I think Sainz got hit by the usual Ferrari issue: strategy. What was it- 45 lap old Mediums by the end? Must have been a nightmare to drive. There'll be more to it than that, but it won't have helped!
> 
> Great to see Mazepin bringing the fight to Perez during the race. Looking forward to the inside track on that rivalry in DtS4.
> 
> Hamilton was great (quelle suprise!) - not perfect, but rather another fine example of how one makes a mistake/error of judgement, moves on, and then overcome. GOAT


Perez was on 50 something lap old mediums during the race.

So what? Ibanez, Marshall DSL100 and 1960A, and the name is...


----------



## Mathemagician

52 laps on those mediums. Tire management god. 

Yeah McLaren proved you can use Mercedes parts and succeed without building another fucking Mercedes. 

We all know that the customer cars at the end of the day will have to resolve the same engineering issues that the works team does and so will be similar. 

But the FIA came after Merc and Aston was just collateral damage. If it forces them to invest more into R&D/engineering going forward then so much the better. 

Shame the Williams was so finicky around other cars. Really would have liked to see them fighting the p15-10 guys more.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Perez was on 50 something lap old mediums during the race.
> 
> So what? Ibanez, Marshall DSL100 and 1960A, and the name is...


Michael - and he's a wee smasher!

My brother asked if that was after Jackson, Angelo or Romeo. All incorrect as it was the Office Space answer:

Bolton.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Michael - and he's a wee smasher!





Indeed


----------



## SD83

If I was Mazepin father, I'd consider disinheriting Nikita. Just watched to highlights from FP1 & 2 and then had a look back at his career... he's either just completely hopeless or can't be bothered to put in any efford. It must be really embarrassing for him to meet anyone these days. "How's your son doing in F1?" "We do not talk about the one who drives behind Schumacher."


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> View attachment 93027
> 
> Indeed


I hated Schumacher so much after that incident. It was actually even closer than that photo suggests as well.


----------



## Werecow

SD83 said:


> he's either just completely hopeless or can't be bothered to put in any efford."



You forgot about the times he's being a complete dick on track as well  He had quite a mass of penalty points on his F2 license. Mostly for really dangerous defensive movements not unlike the photo of Schumacher on Barrichello above.


----------



## StevenC

Taki Inoue said Mazepin is out the driving like Taki Inoue.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> Taki Inoue said Mazepin is out the driving like Taki Inoue.


I love his twitter feed. Such a huge collection of self-burn jokes haha.


----------



## bulb

Alpine looking good


----------



## Vostre Roy




----------



## Werecow

I really love races like that where a bold tactical choice results in someone having to reel them in before running out of laps.
Red Bull still not having their second driver be in a position to stop that happening though.

Bottas made himself look a bit pathetic by defending against Lewis a bit, but then Lewis just breezing by him in an actual overtake. Don't know what he was trying to achieve.


----------



## StevenC

Really enjoyable race for Catalunya. Great work by Lewis and Mercedes. Not sure what Valtteri thought he was going to achieve. Great drive again by Chuck, and Daniel looks like he needed a weekend at a familiar venue to get his eye in on the car. Real shame about Ocon though, drove really well and just ran out of tyres at the end. Same for Alonso and Russell. Red Bull have a lot of work to do if they want to win titles, specifically lifting whatever curse Daniel left on that second car.

Also good on FOM for adjusting the DotD result in time for the podium this week.


----------



## bulb

At least these races are entertaining even if we just end up with another ham/ver/bot.
Hard to say if quick react 2 stop would have fared better for Max.
I want Max to win the championship, but it’s races like these that really show people that it’s not “just the car” for Lewis.


----------



## Mathemagician

Agreed. The fact that Lewis is being challenged, THEN he delivers really shows that he is consistent at his amazing skilled level. Like he’s just better than everyone, all the time. Would love to see Verstappen with more P1 finishes though.


----------



## Werecow

bulb said:


> At least these races are entertaining even if we just end up with another ham/ver/bot.
> Hard to say if quick react 2 stop would have fared better for Max.
> I want Max to win the championship, but it’s races like these that really show people that it’s not “just the car” for Lewis.


Red Bull didn't have any medium tyres left, so they couldn't react immediately to Lewis pitting.


----------



## Werecow

Some F1 porn...

https://streamable.com/4sbgio


----------



## SD83

That is an unexpected starting order... Vettel and Hamilton side by side, that has been a while


----------



## r33per

Interesting (to me) observation: all WDC winners were out qualified by their teammate in Q1.

Max and Charlie into Sainte Devote could be spicy...


----------



## Vostre Roy

Leclerc's car is down, transmission issues I believe. Kid's luck at his home GP is inexistant.

Also, first time in year that I actually sit to watch a race.


----------



## StevenC

This is the worst day of my life.


----------



## SD83

Watched the highlights yesterday and a bit more today, sadly didn't have the option to watch the full race... what a horrible day for Leclerc and Bottas. 
But that aside, the season seems to remain exciting. I never thought I'd see Vettel finish ahead of Hamilton again. Not sure what's up with Ricciardo, the gap between him and Norris is insane...


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> Watched the highlights yesterday and a bit more today, sadly didn't have the option to watch the full race... what a horrible day for Leclerc and Bottas.
> But that aside, the season seems to remain exciting. I never thought I'd see Vettel finish ahead of Hamilton again. Not sure what's up with Ricciardo, the gap between him and Norris is insane...


With regards Norris/Ricciardo, and all teammate swaps, drivers this year had soooo little testing to get used to the new cars. A day and a half. They're only now approaching the mileage they're used to preseason. It takes a while to figure it out, and you can see it with all of them: Alonso, Vettel, Perez, Tsunoda, Ricciardo. Except Sainz.

With the cars being so similar to last year it's very dramatic and effecting all new drivers the same way. Except Sainz. Ricciardo was complaining off no confidence in the traction under braking this weekend. Not only is that a big thing for his driving style, but it's a big deal in Monaco. I think he's still winning the Quali battle though, and really outperformed Norris in Spain.

We're seeing other drivers adapt at different rates. Vettel is building slowly; Ricciardo is piecing things together; Alonso and Perez seem to yoyo on their deficit every week; and Tsunoda has to deal with being a rookie on top of it all.

Presumably Sainz has adapted so well either from the Fiorano test days with older cars being a benefit, or the car suits him/is similar to the McLaren.


----------



## BenjaminW

I'm thinking I'm gonna get back into F1.

I used to sorta watch it and pay attention to it when I was younger because my dad and brother are big Ferrari fans, and had the chance to go to the first US Grand Prix in Austin when I was 9 which was pretty damn cool. I've got a couple relatively interesting stories about my time there that I'd be down to share.

My brother had some of his friends over I think around the time of the Monaco GP, and decided I'd watch some old Michael Schumacher videos because he was a favorite in my household (obviously considering I live with Ferrari fans), and more recently learned about the F2004 and how great that car was, and how amazing he drove that car. 

So I figured I'd go ahead and give it a shot again especially considering that I've also been getting back into cars the last couple months and it's been a little bit of a hidden thing I enjoy to put it that way.


----------



## StevenC

This is once again the worst day of my life.

What did I just watch?


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> This is once again the worst day of my life.
> 
> What did I just watch?



Consider yourself lucky that you could watch it, every damn interesting race happens when I'm up north working...

Sucks for Stroll, saw the replay and seems like his rear left tire just burst for no reason? Have yet to see Verstappen's incident but I read he also had tire issue in the same area.

That being said, its nice to see a top 3 where both season leaders are out of the points. And Bottas better step his game up or he'll loose his seat sooner than later


----------



## StevenC

Something drastic needs to be done about Michael Masi. He's had over 2 years now to figure out how to direct an F1 race and just hasn't gotten any better.

Now drivers are breaking double yellows again and he's not penalising them and rarely if every uses the VSC. Takes ages to call a SC when drivers are sitting vulnerably on incredibly dangerous parts of the circuit that need to be cleared. He has no consistency and bends to the whims of media pressure because he doesn't have his own ideology of how to safely direct a race. 

Instead of driver safety the only thing we ever hear from Masi is track limits. I hope something is done before it ends in tragedy.


----------



## Mathemagician

Did you hear the audio from when Redbull called the directors? Straight up said “call a red flag, no evidence of prior puncture”. 

Exact same issue on two different cars around similar laps on the tires too I think? Man Pirelli fucked UP. But they announced that the tires weren’t the issue of course.


----------



## Bodes

The graphics on screen were showing both Hamilton and Perez (?) had sweet little grip left at around the 30 lap mark.

Commentators were saying they weren't sure how the percentage of tire wear left was worked out, as well as saying if those % were to be believed, Pirelli has been telling a few fibs about the performance of the hard tyres.

Most were complaining from about 26 laps of wear... Pirelli really overstated their tyres or misunderstood the tyres to the point of being dangerous.


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah hards were rated at 40 laps. In a 51 lap race.


----------



## StevenC

Bodes said:


> The graphics on screen were showing both Hamilton and Perez (?) had sweet little grip left at around the 30 lap mark.
> 
> Commentators were saying they weren't sure how the percentage of tire wear left was worked out, as well as saying if those % were to be believed, Pirelli has been telling a few fibs about the performance of the hard tyres.
> 
> Most were complaining from about 26 laps of wear... Pirelli really overstated their tyres or misunderstood the tyres to the point of being dangerous.


I'd be hesitant to read anything from the AWS tyre graphics because they seem to be based on magic dust more than anything. They're as reliable as Lewis saying his tyres are dead.

I'm not convinced on the tyres for now. Some drivers did 41 laps on the hards this week without incident, but it looks like Hamilton had a giant cut in his from debris. At the minute it seems more likely that Max and Lance got very unlucky with their failures. Compared to Austria 2016 as an example with a real outlying stint and failure.

But it is a bad look that they brought the softest tyres and appear to have only red flagged the race to give the rest of the field a chance to change tyres to make the finish.


----------



## Bodes

StevenC said:


> But it is a bad look that they brought the softest tyres and appear to have only red flagged the race to give the rest of the field a chance to change tyres to make the finish.



100% this.
Although it was a fun restart/finish to watch, it had zero integrity to it, apart from Perez winning.


----------



## StevenC

He really is a Schumacher, brings a tear to my eye.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> He really is a Schumacher, brings a tear to my eye.



Bro the qualies had a lot more going on than I expected going into this go-cart looking track.


----------



## BenjaminW

Mathemagician said:


> Bro the qualies had a lot more going on than I expected going into this go-cart looking track.


Just put a couple item boxes and boost pads around, then you've got yourself a _real_ go-kart track.


----------



## StevenC

My brain was just melted by the end of that race, no wonder Bottas was so angry. I had to lie down for 2 hours.


----------



## StevenC

George's time will come


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> George's time will come


Here's hoping...

Some good stuff from Lando and Charlie today. Max & RB just owned it from turn one.


----------



## Werecow

With how well Lando is doing versus Daniel, and how well Carlos is doing against Charles, i'm beginning to think they were both carrying that Mclaren car for their time together there.

They were mostly closely matched at Mclaren, and both expected to be beaten soundly by their new team mates. Carlos against Charles is impressive in that it's the new car for Carlos. Lando v Daniel is impressive in the sheer gap between them.


----------



## Werecow

Hum, 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQwUQKChnWv/


----------



## Bodes

Werecow said:


> Hum,
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CQwUQKChnWv/



Some of the comments are gold!


----------



## StevenC

Good job @bulb


----------



## Mathemagician

One more Rawe Ceek. I’m excited for another race. Very glad to see McLaren in 3rd. And if it does happen to rain so much the better.


----------



## StevenC

George you amazing human! Q3 in a Williams on Mediums, 9th in Q3 in a Williams, starting P8 in a Williams.

The greatest F1 talent we have.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Lets not overlook Norris P2 with only 0.048s from Verstappen as well, dude is having an hell of a season so far.

The green light tomorrow should be very interesting


----------



## Mathemagician

Meanwhile Merc in every press briefing: “Our engines are just SO far behind Red Bull’s this season. We’re SUCH underdogs.” Lol.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> George you amazing human! Q3 in a Williams on Mediums, 9th in Q3 in a Williams, starting P8 in a Williams.
> 
> The greatest F1 talent we have.



I'm tempted to put Norris up there, too. P2 in the Mclaren, in good weather and if I'm not mistaken on the same tires as everyone else and absolutely consistent through the season so far


----------



## Mathemagician

In my group chat the weekly post-quali text has become “Landooooooo”


----------



## Bodes

My wife looked at me funny when I yelled "YESSSS" for George when made it into Q3 and again when the Merc boys couldn't knock off Lando from 2nd.

Can not wait till the race.

Bring. It. On.

I felt sorry for Alonso. Bloody Vettel. Stupid rules and strategies by teams.
GTFO of the way of fast cars. 
The Merc wall asking for the FIA to set minimum lap times at short tracks like Spielberg is a great move. Sort out your separation before the final F'n turn. Someone will be hurt if this crap is allowed to continue.


----------



## StevenC

Interesting race.

Fire Paul Di Resta please.


----------



## Bodes

Oh George. You did all you could but had nothing left at the end. 

Well done to Lando!

@StevenC why such a harsh criticism of Di Resta? He is ok, but did seem to get a lot more air time than in any other race.


----------



## Vostre Roy

If I had to fire anyone, it'd be the Aston Martin strategists.

Good job on Lando for landing his P3, couldn't watch the race but followed it through live commentaries.

Verstappen is now in good position in the standings


----------



## StevenC

Bodes said:


> @StevenC why such a harsh criticism of Di Resta? He is ok, but did seem to get a lot more air time than in any other race.


This week and Baku (I think) Brundle sat out so they got PDR to be the second commentator.

Di Resta is a terrible pundit because he's still so bitter about his own career and has such animosity towards certain drivers. For example, he genuinely doesn't understand why Lewis is a 7x WDC yet he can't make it onto the grid. This is because Mercedes considered Di Resta before they signed Hamilton. Also hates Vettel. Apparently all the engineers in his team also hated working with him because he wouldn't accept responsibility for anything. He really doesn't have any technical insight, especially when compared to Davidson or Rosberg, but Ant is still an actual racing driver and Nico is a world champion who doesn't need to validate himself at Sky. Even Karun has better insight most of the time, at least when he was at Channel 4. Sky seem to be using him as yet another blue flag shouty man.

As to this weekend, he was all over the place. First his terrible call on the Norris penalty: "Racing incident", "5 seconds would be too harsh", penalty is given, "Perez lost more than 5 seconds", "They gave the same penalty last year so it's consistent", "5 seconds is too harsh". For context, Christian Horner called it a racing incident and it was his driver who lost out.

Then when Hamilton passed Norris and praised him on the radio, everyone: "That was nice of him to say". Paul: "He's only saying that because he let him past." Just being bitter for the sake of it.

Then the first Perez penalty comes along and he just can't see how that move was different to the Norris move. No mention of Leclerc being ahead. No mention of Perez driving into him. No mention of hitting him twice. The best he can come up with is "They'll probably give him a penalty because they gave Norris a penalty." Perez only made the corner by playing bumper cars, but because Paul races in DTM of all things he gets an opinion? Then Perez pulls another dodgy defensive move on Leclerc and it's once again glossed over.

Later, Chuck is doing some more crazy moves but against Ricciardo this time. "How did they not touch?" Because Perez wasn't involved.

Finally he sums up Max's weekend and Red Bull's 5 race win streak by saying: "Had a quiet Friday, come out and put a marker down here that they've upped their game." Which is the most mindless thing anyone has ever said. He literally topped FP1 and was 3rd in FP3. Just totally meaningless words to fill his quota.


----------



## Werecow

I've never liked Di Resta. I don't watch Sky all that often, but i've actually never seen him laugh when the others are joking around. I'm not sure if i've even seen him smile. He does seem genuinely pissed off & bitter when talking about F1.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> I've never liked Di Resta. I don't watch Sky all that often, but i've actually never seen him laugh when the others are joking around. I'm not sure if i've even seen him smile. He does seem genuinely pissed off & bitter when talking about F1.


Compared to DC and Brundle who genuinely love the sport, he's an embarrassing pundit. 

He makes Simon Lazenby look like a knowledgeable and interested fan.


----------



## Bodes

Fair enough. I guess I watch the race at low volume not to wake my little one, so Di Resta may not come across the same way to me.

He does seem a little angry, but that could just be his half-Scottish accent. They always sound angry. Hahaha.

Plus I always see 'special comments' people as not that great, but only comment on specific things.
The Australian Football League have some real doozies (can that person actually tie their shoes?) on special comments, so that might sway my lack of negative opinion on Di Resta.


----------



## StevenC

Bodes said:


> Fair enough. I guess I watch the race at low volume not to wake my little one, so Di Resta may not come across the same way to me.
> 
> He does seem a little angry, but that could just be his half-Scottish accent. They always sound angry. Hahaha.
> 
> Plus I always see 'special comments' people as not that great, but only comment on specific things.
> The Australian Football League have some real doozies (can that person actually tie their shoes?) on special comments, so that might sway my lack of negative opinion on Di Resta.


DC is both Scottish and a colour commentator. He's neither angry or an imbecile.

Di Resta is just the worst.


----------



## StevenC

That was a fantastic qualifying. Weird that it doesn't count for some reason.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> That was a fantastic qualifying. Weird that it doesn't count for some reason.


It was so good! Some great laps in there, proper exciting up to the end!


----------



## Bodes

Definitely exciting.

George, go you bloody good thing!
Always great to see someone punching so much above his weight. Can't wait to see him in the Mercedes next year.


----------



## BenjaminW

Sprint was cool but I like the normal format better.


----------



## bulb

i liked sprint more than I thought I would, still wouldn't be mad with them experimenting with more points to the top 8-10 positions and then doing an F2 style reverse grid for the race.


----------



## Bodes

Sprint race was fun for about seven laps, or so. Then it became very obvious that team orders were 'pass at the start, then hold pretty and not break the car. The actual race is tomorrow.'

Alonso at the beginning was brilliant!
Ricciardo taking some risks was fun. 
George seemed to be doing not much, but kept hold of his position. This could also have been due to the telecast that I got this thought.

I got to say I am a bit sad that everyone gets to start the actual race on fresh tyres. Takes away some of the magic. I liked the 'you need to smash out a fast lap in Q2, on not the fastest tyres, but don't you dare put a single stratch on those race tyres.' Then having some of the drivers needing to switch to softs to make it into Q3. That spiced both the quallies and the start of the race up nicely for the non-Mercedes and Verstappens on the grid.


----------



## StevenC

That was entirely pointless.



bulb said:


> still wouldn't be mad with them experimenting with more points to the top 8-10 positions and then doing an F2 style reverse grid for the race.


No. Please no. Bad idea.


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> That was entirely pointless.
> 
> 
> No. Please no. Bad idea.


I don’t think it would hurt to try out for a few weekends just to see what happens.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> I don’t think it would hurt to try out for a few weekends just to see what happens.


F2 is a feeder series. Reverse grid races serve a purpose in this context, demonstrating the young drivers can fight through the field. 

Take a look at how many poles people like George and Charles were able to get in their seasons, and then how frequently they were able to disappear into the distance in the feature race. If not for the sprint race with the mixed up grid we might never see them actually racing, because the talent gap can be so big in F2. (More so In 2017 for Charles, but George still dominated the more competitive 2018).

Also, bear in mind the format F2 uses. Qualifying forms the grid for the main Feature race. The Sprint race used to be determined by reversing the top 10 of this grid, but now it's a bit different and sillier. But they still maintain the significance of qualifying on pole for the main race and the one that's worth the most points.

Why would F1, which brands itself as the pinnacle of motor_sport, _want to reverse the grid for the race? And what does that achieve?


----------



## BenjaminW

StevenC said:


> Why would F1, which brands itself as the pinnacle of motor_sport, _want to reverse the grid for the race? And what does that achieve?


bEcAuSE iT’lL MaKe tHE sPOrT mORe inTeREStInG or something like that.


----------



## BenjaminW

In other news my saltiness is through the roof after Hamilton overtook Leclerc.


----------



## StevenC

Hamilton makes the same move on 3 young drivers and the most experienced driver makes it a crash.


----------



## r33per

Outstanding! That man is just outstanding! Lewis Hamilton: what a win.


----------



## r33per

And for my every race complaint about DOTD:

Two laps from the end:
1. LEC: 31%
2. VER: 12%
3. Who cares because VER is 12% after completing 1/2 of the first lap?!?

What a joke.


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> And for my every race complaint about DOTD:
> 
> Two laps from the end:
> 1. LEC: 31%
> 2. VER: 12%
> 3. Who cares because VER is 12% after completing 1/2 of the first lap?!?
> 
> What a joke.


Somehow sprint qualifying wasn't the biggest joke this weekend.


----------



## Mathemagician

The sprint was very fun to watch in a bubble. But the downside is that the sprint can completely fuck drivers over on their Sunday start.

I definitely don’t want to see reverse grid in an F1 weekend. It serves no purpose, unlike in F2.

The best part about the sprint was showing how quickly some drivers could adjust to limited information from just one free practice and making it work.

I’m so, so angry about that garbage call though. Jesus Christ that was shit.

At least Leclerc proved he can still do witchcraft.


----------



## BenjaminW

StevenC said:


> Somehow sprint qualifying wasn't the biggest joke this weekend.


Nico Rosberg is absolutely right on why the sprint is an awful idea.


----------



## StevenC

Can we take a moment to acknowledge how ironic it is that the guy who keeps using ableist slurs on the radio, assaults other drivers, and gets into bar brawls wants to lecture people about being respectful. The guy whose team and fans are calling for hard racing one week then calling people attempted murderers when it happens the next.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Can we take a moment to acknowledge how ironic it is that the guy who keeps using ableist slurs on the radio, assaults other drivers, and gets into bar brawls wants to lecture people about being respectful. The guy whose team and fans are calling for hard racing one week then calling people attempted murderers when it happens the next.


Only if you can make it into a lyric that fits an Alanis Morrisette song.


----------



## Dayviewer

Fernando you absolute legend. Happy for Ocon too!
The championship is still very close so it should be a very exciting second half of the season.

I hope to God that Zandvoort will happen as I love the track (still have to see the recent upgrades in person though), but rules & regulations for multi-day events are being debated by the government right now due to the latest covid developments here in NL.
The local organization is still building up the facilities for a full crowd, and they mentioned multiple times over the years they wouldn't do it without any spectators because of financial reasons, so yea things could change any moment.


----------



## Werecow

That restart with just Hamilton on the grid was one of the weirdest sights/situation ever in F1 i think. What a mad race.


----------



## BenjaminW

Fernando defending Hamilton brought back waves of nostalgia.

Congrats to Vettel and Ocon!


----------



## SD83

Judging by the highlights... what a race. 
But what was Russell thinking when he overtook everyone in the pit lane?


----------



## r33per

Oh dear, Aston Martin.

A classic case of by having your man fight for the win, you've actually ended up losing everything. Probably 2 laps fuel save would have done it.


----------



## StevenC

Terrifying crash in W-Series today at Spa. As much as we all love that corner, it needs a serious redesign and adding gravel traps isn't going to help.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Terrifying crash in W-Series today at Spa. As much as we all love that corner, it needs a serious redesign and adding gravel traps isn't going to help.


Yeah it was pretty nasty - glad all the drivers have checked out OK.
Then followed by the crash in qually today, also a sore one. I'm no engineer, but without a fundamental redesign, what can be done?


----------



## Dayviewer

There’s planned a good amount of extra runoff there for next year which will definitely improve things.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...ss-eau-rouges-biggest-safety-concern/6655381/


----------



## r33per

That was one of the best races in F1 history. Supreme displays of determination and skill.


----------



## BenjaminW

What a spectacular race today.


----------



## StevenC

This was the dumbest thing I've ever watched. However made the decision to go out just to screw fans out of refunds should be ashamed.

Lewis with the facts in his interview.


----------



## StevenC

My friend missed the race yesterday and has avoided all spoilers until now when he has seen that the race was recorded at over 4 hours, and is currently very excited for what must have been a spectacle for the ages.


----------



## eaeolian

StevenC said:


> My friend missed the race yesterday and has avoided all spoilers until now when he has seen that the race was recorded at over 4 hours, and is currently very excited for what must have been a spectacle for the ages.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> My friend missed the race yesterday and has avoided all spoilers until now when he has seen that the race was recorded at over 4 hours, and is currently very excited for what must have been a spectacle for the ages.


My brother and his wife were playing catch up with qually and the race yesterday evening. I couldn't bring myself to make him sit through it all so i at least told him that between 2pm and 5pm uk time they completed 2 laps behind the SC.

Then the 4 hour limit clicked...


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> My brother and his wife were playing catch up with qually and the race yesterday evening. I couldn't bring myself to make him sit through it all so i at least told him that between 2pm and 5pm uk time they completed 2 laps behind the SC.
> 
> Then the 4 hour limit clicked...


You are clearly much less sadistic than I am


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> You are clearly much less sadistic than I am


Hey, he was the one that said "no spoliers" and I dutifully obliged, meaning he still watched the "race"


----------



## StevenC

r33per said:


> Hey, he was the one that said "no spoliers" and I dutifully obliged, meaning he still watched the "race"


That I did! He has now finished after skipping through some parts of the red flag and giving up on spoilers after the "race" section of the 4 hours.

Incidentally, has anyone seen how F1 has been manipulating Hamilton's comments on the race to remove how negative he's been about this farce? Much like when Sainz wasn't fussed on the sprint race, but they just left that out to get a better headline.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> My friend missed the race yesterday and has avoided all spoilers until now when he has seen that the race was recorded at over 4 hours, and is currently very excited for what must have been a spectacle for the ages.



Me as well, but I’m already in the habit of fast forwarding through any red flag/cars not being on the track. So it only cost me about 30min. 



StevenC said:


> That I did! He has now finished after skipping through some parts of the red flag and giving up on spoilers after the "race" section of the 4 hours.
> 
> Incidentally, has anyone seen how F1 has been manipulating Hamilton's comments on the race to remove how negative he's been about this farce? Much like when Sainz wasn't fussed on the sprint race, but they just left that out to get a better headline.



Lewis is definitely pissed for losing points over something dumb and while I find it hilarious that it worked out for RB. Lewis isn’t wrong. And he’s shared his opinions on Instagram to his millions of followers twice now. So he’s not just talking to press, he’s sharing on social media as well. I’d be pissed if I dropped 600€ on a 4 hour rain shower.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> Me as well, but I’m already in the habit of fast forwarding through any red flag/cars not being on the track. So it only cost me about 30min.
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis is definitely pissed for losing points over something dumb and while I find it hilarious that it worked out for RB. Lewis isn’t wrong. And he’s shared his opinions on Instagram to his millions of followers twice now. So he’s not just talking to press, he’s sharing on social media as well. I’d be pissed if I dropped 600€ on a 4 hour rain shower.


Yeah, they can't stop him on his Instagram. But in their driver reaction video on YouTube for example, the cut is very clear in his interview and it is incredibly short for a driver who usually doesn't have a problem giving longer responses like he gave on the podium.


----------



## Bodes

I held back from reading or watching anything. I recorded the race tried to watch it but Foxtel (cable tv) doesn't auto extend live sport recording. 
Blah blah fast forward, got to the end of the 2.5 hours of recording and nothing.

Made my wife watch the news sports report to find out if I should find a version online to watch. What a waste of time.
At least I didn't sit there for 4 hours for that.
I certainly feel for the crowd who spent big bucks and time sitting in that weather. 

Now to find some articles of the comments you have all been discussing.


----------



## BenjaminW

Bwoahh rumor has it Kimi will retire at the end of the season and may announce it at the Italian GP.


----------



## r33per

BenjaminW said:


> Bwoahh rumor has it Kimi will retire at the end of the season and may announce it at the Italian GP.


Please select one of the following response options:

1. Finally
2. Again?
3. He knows what he is doing


----------



## StevenC

Having been at the 2015 USGP, I sort of have a different perspective about this race. The fans didn't get a race, but they got to be at what will undoubtedly be an event remembered for decades. I'm still really disappointed they cancelled the buses to the track in Austin so I didn't get to be at the track for the Saturday of nothing that year. 

Still sucks and they should get refunded.


----------



## Dayviewer

Zandvoort is building up, incredible to see the track being transformed, I last visited the track 3 years ago and it's unrecognizable.
Qualy should be absolute madness, the race we'll have to wait and see, will probably be strategy heavy, things could get interesting with the tires (2 banked corners) and a very small pit entry/exit.


----------



## BenjaminW

Kimi’s retirement is confirmed.


----------



## Dayviewer

Such a great driver and unique personality in the paddock, he will be missed!


----------



## StevenC

That sure was a race I watched 72 laps of (minus a few when Sky Go died).


----------



## Dayviewer

Yea apart from some seeing how the strategies could play out it was pretty boring, cool images of the atmosphere though  
But yea, on to Monza! I think the championship is gonna go down to the very last race eventually, can't wait to see how it all unfolds.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Yea apart from some seeing how the strategies could play out it was pretty boring, cool images of the atmosphere though
> But yea, on to Monza! I think the championship is gonna go down to the very last race eventually, can't wait to see how it all unfolds.


The crowd did look great, but I have been saying for a while (maybe not in this thread) that something has to be done about those flairs because there were times it looked like a serious safety concern. Though we still go to Spa...


----------



## Mathemagician

Idk, for me it was definitely a strategy-heavy race. I mean to see Merc with 2 cars in the top 3 gambling on plans to try to mess with RB with just one car even in the points for over half the race was interesting.

So for now the passing spots for most people are Turn 1, Turn 3 if you’re bold, and a chicane.*




*Rules do not apply to Perez


----------



## Bodes

I wonder if it was just the coverage that made the race boring (again). Was great hearing Jensen commentate, but he kept saying things about passing in the mid-pack.
Where TF was the footage of all these passes?

I am feeling like that because they (F1, Sky or both) have not made as much money these past two seasons, they are taking cash from the major sponsors from certain few teams to show their company logos. Why did we need to see Bottas for 3 laps when he was by himself and doing nothing, comparative to the mid-pack?!?

Well done to Red Bull for getting far enough ahead of the Mercedes then making the call on pitting. 

Bottas has to go after not helping the team. He really didn't seem to have much care. Dropped too far back to really force Red Bull's hand into a potential pit mistake. Wolfe said they would be pushing the RB into mistakes but, well, yeah...


----------



## StevenC

Bottas confirmed at Alfa Romeo for next year. I wonder who will take the Mercedes seat?


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Bottas confirmed at Alfa Romeo for next year. I wonder who will take the Mercedes seat?



Rumors are going towards Russel's direction, which wouldn't be too surprising


----------



## Mathemagician

It’s definitely Russell to Merc. And Looks like Albon to Williams though Toto wants DeVries to Williams. The contract where Merc controls a Williams seat ends this year so Williams’s gets to choose both their drivers going forward.


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> Bottas confirmed at Alfa Romeo for next year. I wonder who will take the Mercedes seat?


In an epic 4D chess move, Mercedes announce Alex Albon for 2022.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> The contract where Merc controls a Williams seat ends this year


Do you have any source on this? That's genuinely the first time I've seen it phrased like that. Mercedes didn't pay for Russell's seat, at least initially, by all reports. Williams chose Bottas, Massa, Stroll, Sirotkin and Latifi independently too. I can see how they might have a driver veto in their engine supply contract if the driver is currently an engine competitor's junior driver, however, but don't see why that would end before the rest of the contract.


----------



## r33per

Christian Horner: "There is so much support for [Max], and I have never seen a nation get behind a driver in this manner."


----------



## Dayviewer

Russel is said to be confirmed tomorrow, and De Vries is now rumored for Alfa Romeo now for some reason  I won’t be surprised if we’ll know the whole thing by the end of the week.


----------



## StevenC

Dayviewer said:


> Russel is said to be confirmed tomorrow, and De Vries is now rumored for Alfa Romeo now for some reason  I won’t be surprised if we’ll know the whole thing by the end of the week.


The rumour is Mercedes have a seat for DeVries in either Alfa or Williams and Albon/Red Bull prefer the Williams seat. And Williams claim they make decisions idependent of Mercedes, so I wouldn't blame them for taking Albon over De Vries because it's the right move.


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah DeVries is an FE champ which is impressive AF, meanwhile Albon drove for a top team, was in their dev program, and has lived inside an F1 simulator for the last year.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah DeVries is an FE champ which is impressive AF, meanwhile Albon drove for a top team, was in their dev program, and has lived inside an F1 simulator for the last year.


Except FE is basically a lottery these days. Hence why every manufacturer is leaving.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> Do you have any source on this? That's genuinely the first time I've seen it phrased like that. Mercedes didn't pay for Russell's seat, at least initially, by all reports. Williams chose Bottas, Massa, Stroll, Sirotkin and Latifi independently too. I can see how they might have a driver veto in their engine supply contract if the driver is currently an engine competitor's junior driver, however, but don't see why that would end before the rest of the contract.



I can’t remember where I read it. But a lot of manufacturer teams negotiate a lower engine price for customer teams if they’ll let them out a driver in that seat for X number of years.

Now as for the Albon to Williams rumors, all info stolen from Rapid Racing:






Edit: This is all legible on my phone. Apologies if it’s sized poorly on desktop.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> I can’t remember where I read it. But a lot of manufacturer teams negotiate a lower engine price for customer teams if they’ll let them out a driver in that seat for X number of years.
> 
> Now as for the Albon to Williams rumors, all info stolen from Rapid Racing:
> 
> View attachment 97459
> View attachment 97460
> View attachment 97461
> 
> 
> Edit: This is all legible on my phone. Apologies if it’s sized poorly on desktop.


Yeah, Williams have Mercedes engines until 2025 and they'd have to get some crazy deal to break that contract. I'd be surprised if Mercedes doesn't get a say until 2025.


----------



## Mathemagician

What I’m saying is that while they have Mercedes engines until 2025, Merc’s “say” on one seat was only through 2021. So Williams can keep using Merc engines just without the discount and get to pick both their drivers. If it’s two different contracts, then Williams just gives up the engine discount and acts like AM/McL.

Given the massive cash infusion from Dorilton Capital who bought them out, and the bump in F1 payout if they end the season in 8th versus 10th they can “decide their own fate” as far as drivers go, just like McClaren does.

So far Williams has made it clear that their intention is not to be a “B Team/Feeder Team”.


----------



## StevenC

IT'S HAPPENING


----------



## Bodes

Worst secret in F1.

Bloody deserves the drive. I hope Mercedes let's him and Ham race properly.


----------



## BenjaminW

Now it's a matter of determine who joins Bottas in Alfa Romeo and who the two Williams drivers will be.


----------



## Mathemagician

Bodes said:


> Worst secret in F1.
> 
> Bloody deserves the drive. I hope Mercedes let's him and Ham race properly.



Hint: They won’t. At all.

He’ll have to go full-Lewis and just ignore any and all team orders if he wants a shot at fighting for wins - assuming he actually good enough to fight the 7 time world champion in the other seat.

Curious to see if they insulted him with a 1-yr contract like they did to Bottas for oh FIVE years straight.


----------



## StevenC

BenjaminW said:


> Now it's a matter of determine who joins Bottas in Alfa Romeo and who the two Williams drivers will be.


I'm like 90% sure Latifi has a contract already


Mathemagician said:


> Hint: They won’t. At all.
> 
> He’ll have to go full-Lewis and just ignore any and all team orders if he wants a shot at fighting for wins - assuming he actually good enough to fight the 7 time world champion in the other seat.
> 
> Curious to see if they insulted him with a 1-yr contract like they did to Bottas for oh FIVE years straight.


All Mercedes drivers have been allowed to race throughout the season. The only times Mercedes have given team orders in the Hamilton era (when drivers were on the same strategy) were 2013 in Malaysia (which was to give a podium to their new driver), 2017 Hungary (where Hamilton swapped back since he couldn't make more positions), 2018 Germany (Bottas was allowed to fight for the first 3 laps after the safety car [he had a tyre advantage] and then told to hold position because he was way behind in a close championship), 2018 Russia (again to protect Hamilton's championship position), 2020 Austrian (Bottas leading, told to hold position so as not to damage car), and 2020 Netherlands (Bottas asked not to go for fastest lap).

All the Bottas incidents were because Bottas was not in the championship battle or favoured Bottas.

But yeah, Russell definitely has a few years on his contract because he's valuable.


----------



## StevenC

https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/status/1435573653501054978

Called Nicholas, good to see Albon getting another shot.


----------



## SD83

Definitly looking forward to seeing Russell race for Mercedes next year. 
When in doubt, I am sure the team will go with Hamilton, not just in terms of team order, but also more favorable racing strategy or a different car setup, but they'd be stupid not to. He is one of the best drivers out there, probably one of the best there ever was, he still has the skills, the determination, the focus... but if Russell can stand his ground, that's probably the best position anyone could hope for. You have one of the best cars on the grid, one of the best crews on the grid, you have one of the best and most experienced drivers as your team mate... Hamilton won't be driving forever, after all.


----------



## Dayviewer

Oh boy we’re gonna have another field day with this one 

But, Mclaren 1-2 BABY! So happy for Ricciardo, he deserved this


----------



## StevenC

Massive congrats to Danny!

Max is a trash human on and off the track.


----------



## Vostre Roy

It was a nail bitting race and I could only follow it through live commentaries lol

Happy to see McLarens getting P1 and P2 and my homeboy Stroll securing P7


----------



## Vostre Roy

Ok, so I just watched a couple of replays of the incident

Hamilton was a bit agressive on its pit lane exits, didn't entirely closed the door and stayed on his racing line despite having someone right next to him in the chicane. On the other hand, Max had absolutely no opportunity to take him over, he braked way too late and as a result he was outside and going too fast in the firt turn.

I'd say its 60% Max fault and 40% Lewis mostly because, IMHO, the overtaking car has the responsability to make a safe pass, but the overtaken car also has to acknowledge the presence of another car beside him although I believe that Max's move was made too late. Two hard headed drivers competing for the title


----------



## BenjaminW

Vostre Roy said:


> Ok, so I just watched a couple of replays of the incident
> 
> Hamilton was a bit agressive on its pit lane exits, didn't entirely closed the door and stayed on his racing line despite having someone right next to him in the chicane. On the other hand, Max had absolutely no opportunity to take him over, he braked way too late and as a result he was outside and going too fast in the firt turn.
> 
> I'd say its 60% Max fault and 40% Lewis mostly because, IMHO, the overtaking car has the responsability to make a safe pass, but the overtaken car also has to acknowledge the presence of another car beside him although I believe that Max's move was made too late. Two hard headed drivers competing for the title


The crash today also shows that even though people may not like the halo/think it looks goofy, it's proven to have saved lives in moments that otherwise would've proved potentially fatal (Lewis today and Grosjean last year).


----------



## StevenC

Here's a video showing how you're supposed to defend into T1 at Monza featuring the faultless Max Verstappen.

Edit: can't embed timestamps or F1 videos. It's at 3:30.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> Here's a video showing how you're supposed to defend into T1 at Monza featuring the faultless Max Verstappen.
> 
> Edit: can't embed timestamps or F1 videos. It's at 3:30.



He's like that with everything he does in F1. One rule for him, another for everyone else. I'd call him a hypocrite, but i'm not sure he's got enough self-awareness to be that. Delusional maybe?

Even just in this latest race, Lewis went straight on at a chicane when he realised Max's aggressive defence was putting him off the road. As soon as the roles are reversed, he gets into a rage about the other person not giving space, and causes a collision.
He really doesn't know when and how to jump out of the way to save his own race.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> He's like that with everything he does in F1. One rule for him, another for everyone else. I'd call him a hypocrite, but i'm not sure he's got enough self-awareness to be that. Delusional maybe?
> 
> Even just in this latest race, Lewis went straight on at a chicane when he realised Max's aggressive defence was putting him off the road. As soon as the roles are reversed, he gets into a rage about the other person not giving space, and causes a collision.
> He really doesn't know when and how to jump out of the way to save his own race.


And here's his attempt at humility: Twitter


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> And here's his attempt at humility: Twitter


Lol, after what he did at the other chicane, and what would have happened if Lewis hadn't backed out of it. Yeh, no self-awareness at all.


----------



## SD83

"I was squeezed out of it". No. Hamilton was squeezed out of it the first time around, Verstappen just didn't move... Yes, I'd agree, Hamilton could have left more room which would have probably cost him his position and possibly increased Verstappens lead in the championship, but even though his tires would have needed a moment to warm up, he would have been in the perfect position to take that position back asap with quicker & fresher tires. There was no point for him to risk a crash. Verstappen... he could have easily backed out and cut the chicane, but if he thought at all, as soon as he saw Hamilton come out of the pit lane ahead of him he might have known that that was probably his only shot at overtaking him for the remainder of this race.
If I were to guess, I'd say he was still pissed because of the ruined pit stop. The way he just got out of the car and walked off, hardly ever looking at Hamilton, and walking straight along the race track... I'm all for a bit of action & drama, but that was just childish.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> "I was squeezed out of it". No. Hamilton was squeezed out of it the first time around, Verstappen just didn't move... Yes, I'd agree, Hamilton could have left more room which would have probably cost him his position and possibly increased Verstappens lead in the championship, but even though his tires would have needed a moment to warm up, he would have been in the perfect position to take that position back asap with quicker & fresher tires. There was no point for him to risk a crash. Verstappen... he could have easily backed out and cut the chicane, but if he thought at all, as soon as he saw Hamilton come out of the pit lane ahead of him he might have known that that was probably his only shot at overtaking him for the remainder of this race.
> If I were to guess, I'd say he was still pissed because of the ruined pit stop. The way he just got out of the car and walked off, hardly ever looking at Hamilton, and walking straight along the race track... I'm all for a bit of action & drama, but that was just childish.


Verstappen also spun his wheels twice after stopping while his car was on top of Hamilton. He surely knew he was in the air and there was something below him that he could either fling suspension debris into the cockpit of, or catch the helmet of with a spinning wheel.


----------



## Mathemagician

To me that was a racing incident. Taking the inside line while not being fully in front is something Lewis has done as well and he has also knocked people out into gravel over. If that had been a gravel trap and not a sausage curb no one would have been shocked that Verstappen didn’t drive through the corner.

I’m leaning blame 60/40 towards Verstappen, but at the end of the day that was a racing incident that is bound to happen in a tightly contested championship. And world champion(s) Alonso concurs, as does Rosberg.

In both cases- Why shouldn’t Verstappen try to force the overtake? Why shouldn’t Lewis simply not make room? They both “went for it” and it backfired. But they made their choices these aren’t kids in go karts.

On the topic of the Halos I don’t think after last year ANYONE would still argue against it, at a minimum at least not openly. That halo did a great job again for Lewis this weekend.


----------



## SD83

Mathemagician said:


> To me that was a racing incident. Taking the inside line while not being fully in front is something Lewis has done as well and he has also knocked people out into gravel over. If that had been a gravel trap and not a sausage curb no one would have been shocked that Verstappen didn’t drive through the corner.
> 
> I’m leaning blame 60/40 towards Verstappen, but at the end of the day that was a racing incident that is bound to happen in a tightly contested championship. And world champion(s) Alonso concurs, as does Rosberg.
> 
> In both cases- Why shouldn’t Verstappen try to force the overtake? Why shouldn’t Lewis simply not make room? They both “went for it” and it backfired. But they made their choices these aren’t kids in go karts.
> 
> On the topic of the Halos I don’t think after last year ANYONE would still argue against it, at a minimum at least not openly. That halo did a great job again for Lewis this weekend.



100% agreed. Regardless of who is to blame, racing incident, and as long as nobody gets hurt, I'd rather see that than 20 drivers doing 70 perfect and perfectly boring laps around any given circuit (EDIT: Make that 19, there is no way Mazepin is able to do that  ).
And as for the Halo... people have been argueing against pretty much any safety improvements. I can understand that that central pillar may be irritating at first, but at this point it's like argueing against seat belts. Which some people still do though...


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> To me that was a racing incident. Taking the inside line while not being fully in front is something Lewis has done as well and he has also knocked people out into gravel over. If that had been a gravel trap and not a sausage curb no one would have been shocked that Verstappen didn’t drive through the corner.
> 
> I’m leaning blame 60/40 towards Verstappen, but at the end of the day that was a racing incident that is bound to happen in a tightly contested championship. And world champion(s) Alonso concurs, as does Rosberg.
> 
> In both cases- Why shouldn’t Verstappen try to force the overtake? Why shouldn’t Lewis simply not make room? They both “went for it” and it backfired. But they made their choices these aren’t kids in go karts.
> 
> On the topic of the Halos I don’t think after last year ANYONE would still argue against it, at a minimum at least not openly. That halo did a great job again for Lewis this weekend.


I could totally see the argument for racing incident if Silverstone were regarded as such, or if Max had a history of racing as fairly as he claims to. But since neither of those things are the case, we have to do something to let Max know that how he drives is not ok.

See Imola, Spain, Brooklands, and T4 Monza. All times where Max would have been in a crash if Lewis hadn't backed out. Max wants to talk about "working with the other driver" but doesn't want to take any of the responsibility for that. Lewis lost a place on lap 1 because he knew the move wasn't on, Max had less to lose here but still took the risk and took two cars out while nearly killing his rival. That move wasn't investigated because one driver had the sense to avoid a collision, while the other was on a line that couldn't make the corner.


----------



## Dayviewer

The Schumacher documentary released on Netflix today, it's a good watch, I shed a few tears at the end, I'd recommend it!


----------



## Mathemagician

Thanks for the heads up homie


----------



## r33per

Dayviewer said:


> The Schumacher documentary released on Netflix today, it's a good watch, I shed a few tears at the end, I'd recommend it!


Just finished watching it. Very well put together.


----------



## r33per

Also, just rewatching 1917: Dean-Charles Chapman is discount Lando Norris...


----------



## Werecow

https://twitter.com/startonpole/status/1440352325546110976

https://twitter.com/carlinracing/status/1440331280701222925

It's apparently forecast to rain every day for the rest of the week as well.


----------



## BenjaminW

Werecow said:


> https://twitter.com/startonpole/status/1440352325546110976
> 
> https://twitter.com/carlinracing/status/1440331280701222925
> 
> It's apparently forecast to rain every day for the rest of the week as well.


We will either get an actually good race, or get Spa all over again.


----------



## SD83

Well, I didn't except THAT. What an unlikely starting order for tomorrow.


----------



## StevenC

Well, I didn't expect THAT. What an unlikely finishing order today.


----------



## Dayviewer

My god what a rollercoaster  Happy to see the championship still being so close, and completely heartbroken for Lando!


----------



## BenjaminW

I may not like Lewis at all but congrats on his 100th win!


----------



## r33per

Well, that was interesting!

That penalty for Gasly was pretty harsh.


----------



## Vostre Roy

So Verstappen is back in the championship lead and Hamilton was pissed at the call to pit that made him loose two positions.

Beside that, a race to forget for Alonso and Vettel (and his bold move to go with slicks).

Anything else I've missed from the live commentaries? As usual, I'm at work and couldn't watch the race


----------



## r33per

Sainz had a pretty good race, to be fair. One of my rare DOTD agreement (still meaningless...).


----------



## StevenC

That sure was a fun race to watch. Honestly, I think Mercedes made the right decision to pit and bank 5th place. They were probably going to end up there anyway and under even more pressure from Gasly and Norris. If they'd pitted around the same time as Perez they might have had a shot at 3rd,but I think that was the only way. 


r33per said:


> Well, that was interesting!
> 
> That penalty for Gasly was pretty harsh.


I'm sure Dr Marko wants a race ban for Gasly.


----------



## SD83

If I'm not mistaken, Mazepin outdid himself in this race, being lapped at least once by every other driver except for Latifi & Russell, who were probably both in sight by the end of the race, with Russell only being 2 or 3 seconds behind him.


----------



## BenjaminW

SD83 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Mazepin outdid himself in this race, being lapped at least once by every other driver except for Latifi & Russell, who were probably both in sight by the end of the race, with Russell only being 2 or 3 seconds behind him.


MazeGOAT.


----------



## Vostre Roy

SD83 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Mazepin outdid himself in this race, being lapped at least once by every other driver except for Latifi & Russell, who were probably both in sight by the end of the race, with Russell only being 2 or 3 seconds behind him.



Well to his defense, since Mick wasn't in the race anymore, he had no one to race against and basically just joy rided until the end lol

This Haas car isn't giving neither of them a proper shot at doing anything really. Ain't no fan of Mazepin, even compared to Mick he ain't doing much, but I wonder how much more talent he'd need to be on a competitive level


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Well to his defense, since Mick wasn't in the race anymore, he had no one to race against and basically just joy rided until the end lol
> 
> This Haas car isn't giving neither of them a proper shot at doing anything really. Ain't no fan of Mazepin, even compared to Mick he ain't doing much, but I wonder how much more talent he'd need to be on a competitive level


He's about a Mick short of Latifi


----------



## r33per

You know, he still might not win the championship, but if there is a weekend that sums up the racing career of Lewis Hamilton, then Sao Paolo 2021 would be the front runner.

G.O.A.T.


----------



## StevenC

I like this sport again. GOAT.

Also, Max should have just crashed into Lewis because he wasn't getting any penalties this weekend. The wing, running Bottas off the road like he was Ocon, running Lewis off the road with some nonsense, weaving like a maniac. 50k euro and a black and white flag.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Guanyu Zhou has been confirmed as Alfa-Romeo driver next year replacing Giovanizzi

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ass-team-mate-for.3FGtpRMOhG1qZ4Qinr8ky6.html

Seems to be a lot of complains about this decision being taken to gain favors with China over choosing the actual best prospect


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> I like this sport again. GOAT.
> 
> Also, Max should have just crashed into Lewis because he wasn't getting any penalties this weekend. The wing, running Bottas off the road like he was Ocon, running Lewis off the road with some nonsense, weaving like a maniac. 50k euro and a black and white flag.



That incident with Lewis not being investigated was bullshit, he was in the inside line and managed to go wide past the track limit at the end of the turn with someone next to him, that is some dangerous driving


----------



## StevenC

It's a real sad state of affairs that Zhou is getting the drive, but he'll be absolutely crushed by Bottas and learn you can't buy pace. Much like M****** learned.

Of course, it turned out all our fears about M******'s driving standards were unwarranted because we've already got Max driving like that, and he's the guy F1 is branding as the new messiah. So whatever worst case Zhou brings, I'm sure we already have covered.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> It's a real sad state of affairs that Zhou is getting the drive, but he'll be absolutely crushed by Bottas and learn you can't buy pace. Much like M****** learned.
> 
> Of course, it turned out all our fears about M******'s driving standards were unwarranted because we've already got Max driving like that, and he's the guy F1 is branding as the new messiah. So whatever worst case Zhou brings, I'm sure we already have covered.


Lot's of people (including pundits) are just putting it down to "that's just Max" whenever he does something dangerous now. It's in the rules that you have to leave a car's width space on the edge of the track. Apparently now it's ok to drive 20 foot off the track yourself, in the process of pushing your opponent off.
I wouldn't be surprised if Max seriously injures someone (or worse) at some point in his career doiing this.


----------



## StevenC

Werecow said:


> Lot's of people (including pundits) are just putting it down to "that's just Max" whenever he does something dangerous now. It's in the rules that you have to leave a car's width space on the edge of the track. Apparently now it's ok to drive 20 foot off the track yourself, in the process of pushing your opponent off.
> I wouldn't be surprised if Max seriously injures someone (or worse) at some point in his career doiing this.


This is the same dude that ran Bottas off the road in Monza one year and it was killing racing when he was penalised, but when it's Max overtaking a crash is "what you get when you don't leave the space". I have to say that this is partially the fault of Masi's race direction. Charlie had Max's number and wasn't afraid to penalise him so he was reasonably well behaved in the second half of 2018. But then since Austria 2019 he gets away with anything.

EDIT: So, uh, Max's onboard is pretty damning. Literally Rosberg Austria/Germany 2016 levels of attempt to make the corner.


----------



## StevenC

So now the FIA faces another road block in crowning Max champion because he didn't lift while double yellows were being waved. How will they avoid giving a penalty for that?


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> So now the FIA faces another road block in crowning Max champion because he didn't lift while double yellows were being waved. How will they avoid giving a penalty for that?


Something like this?


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> So now the FIA faces another road block in crowning Max champion because he didn't lift while double yellows were being waved. How will they avoid giving a penalty for that?


SIT BACK IN SHAME, OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH, FOR THE FIA HAVE SPOKEN!


----------



## BenjaminW

Life is good once again.

Alonso is back on the podium since 2014.


----------



## StevenC

I would like to reiterate that the fastest lap point is a joke and doesn't make any sense in the current formula.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Just 15 laps in and I want to bang my head on my desk for not being able, yet again, to watch this race as I'm working

The live commentaries alone makes it super intense, second red flag already


----------



## Werecow

Verstappen is an absolute maniac. Terrible driving at the first corner. Overtaking off the track and then rejoining unsafely, should have been two penalties.


----------



## Vostre Roy

WHAT JUST HAPPEN THE COMMENTARIES I'M FOLLOWING SAID THEY CRASHED HOLY SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M MISSING THAT RACE


----------



## Werecow

Vostre Roy said:


> WHAT JUST HAPPEN THE COMMENTARIES I'M FOLLOWING SAID THEY CRASHED HOLY SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M MISSING THAT RACE


It's simultaneously one of the most dramatic races of all time, and the biggest shitshow i've ever seen.


----------



## StevenC

Max should have gotten a 25 second penalty for the way he gave that position, Spa 2008 style. What a dirty driver. I hope he never succeeds at anything.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Max should have gotten a 25 second penalty for the way he gave that position, Spa 2008 style. What a dirty driver. I hope he never succeeds at anything.



Just watched a replay of that incident, seriously what the fuck was Max thinking? When you get a slow down, you can't just jump on the break right in front of the guy following you, there is no way he didn't knew Lewis was right there, that is some unsportsmanship behavior if I ever saw any.

I ain't no Hamilton fan, but damn is Max one piece of crap guy, a very talented driver with no respect for the others.

Edit: Toto Wolff's reaction in slow motion is absolute gold material


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Just watched a replay of that incident, seriously what the fuck was Max thinking? When you get a slow down, you can't just jump on the break right in front of the guy following you, there is no way he didn't knew Lewis was right there, that is some unsportsmanship behavior if I ever saw any.
> 
> I ain't no Hamilton fan, but damn is Max one piece of crap guy, a very talented driver with no respect for the others.
> 
> Edit: Toto Wolff's reaction in slow motion is absolute gold material


It's really hard to root for Max when he keeps crashing into people and getting his dad TV time. That and the slurs.


----------



## Bodes

I am just confused. I have no idea what I just watched.
The SkyUK commentary was interesting in that they were saying the drivers all thought some of this crapshoot could happen during the drivers' briefing after P3/Quallies.

Some really odd decisions by many drivers, but WITAF Max?!? So unnecessary and dangerous.


----------



## StevenC

And Max gets another penalty for brake checking. 3 penalty points today, Crashtappen is back on the menu.

Shame they didn't investigate lap 42 as well, because that was bad, but then Max would end up 3rd.


----------



## Vostre Roy

I would normally be rooting for the young guy going for his first title versus the one going for the amount record, but after watching all of today's replay, I can't understand how anyone would defend Max at this point. The overtake after the first red flag launch was a textbook divebomb. The brake check was childish and dangerous. This kid is on the road to become the second racer to get DQed for the whole season, I wouldn't be surprise if he pulls a Schumacher/Villeneuve move at this point.

Also, the FIA right:


----------



## Vostre Roy

Double post for the win!


----------



## BenjaminW

In terms of drama the race was great, but I don't feel like a race should have this many red flags and safety cars. I've never felt uncomfortable about "dangerous" tracks or driving, but this race is the only time I've felt this way. This track I feel like is a fast and flat Monaco with more runoff. 

In other news, I feel like Ferrari has been able to secure 3rd in the WCC for the most part which is great for me as a Ferrari fan. As a Red Bull fan as well on the other hand, I'm either gonna be extremely happy or extremely salty next week.


----------



## StevenC

In other news, the radio transcripts are out and Lambiase (Max's engineer) told him to give the place back exit of 23 after the crash, which Max ignored to play even more games. Presumably this is because Lambiase knew it was against the rules what Max was trying to do.

Anyway, still can't believe Max got off with such a light penalty after overtaking off track, cutting the track to keep a position, causing a crash by brake checking, and overtaking immediately after giving a place back. In my opinion the brake check is DSQ worthy on its own, and whether it was incompetence or intentional dictates whether it should be an additional race ban or not. If he got penalty points for all the things he's done this year, he certainly would have a race ban.


----------



## Werecow

StevenC said:


> In other news, the radio transcripts are out and Lambiase (Max's engineer) told him to give the place back exit of 23 after the crash, which Max ignored to play even more games. Presumably this is because Lambiase knew it was against the rules what Max was trying to do.
> 
> Anyway, still can't believe Max got off with such a light penalty after overtaking off track, cutting the track to keep a position, causing a crash by brake checking, and overtaking immediately after giving a place back. In my opinion the brake check is DSQ worthy on its own, and whether it was incompetence or intentional dictates whether it should be an additional race ban or not. If he got penalty points for all the things he's done this year, he certainly would have a race ban.


Today he's had the cheek to say he gets treated differently, that everyone else does the things he does, but only he gets punished. He lives in his own universe i think, and between Horner, Marko, and his dad, he's in an echo chamber making him worse and worse. They all come out with the same insane bullshit. One things for certain though, him and Red Bull deserve each other. They're both equally up their own arses, and always have been.

Unfortunately, i think the weekend might end with Max "accidentally" crashing into Lewis.


----------



## StevenC

That's an absolute disgrace. More mishandling by Masi, just handing the championship over.


----------



## SD83

Not the biggest fan of Max and I still think Hamilton is the best driver on the grid... it is what it is though. I'm still waiting for the highlights, had been listening to the commentary but no option to watch it. Sadly. I hope there will be a better TV deal next season. 4 races on free TV, and the final race is not amongst those... ‍ impressive result for Tsunoda. 
Overall, I'd say it was a pretty spectacular and memorable season. My personal highlight was probably the McLaren 1-2 in Italy.


----------



## BenjaminW

Nice.


----------



## StevenC

This is going to court and Mercedes have all the grounds to win.


----------



## SD83

Would somebody mind explaining the incident to me? I'm not even sure what's the problem here. Aren't there any clear cut rules for the safety car? Like "if the track is clear, lapped cars can overtake and once that is done the safety car has to come in"? If there is no hazard on the track, there is no point for the safety car being there as well, even if it's only 1 or 2 laps remaining. Unless I'm missing something... Mercedes gambled, and lost. Hamilton could have gotten fresh tires as well, couldn't he?


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> Would somebody mind explaining the incident to me? I'm not even sure what's the problem here. Aren't there any clear cut rules for the safety car? Like "if the track is clear, lapped cars can overtake and once that is done the safety car has to come in"? If there is no hazard on the track, there is no point for the safety car being there as well, even if it's only 1 or 2 laps remaining. Unless I'm missing something... Mercedes gambled, and lost. Hamilton could have gotten fresh tires as well, couldn't he?


The rules for the safety car are that either all cars can unlap themselves, the race can be restarted without unlapping cars, or the race can finish behind the safety car. If cars are allowed to unlap, the race will be restarted on the following lap.

What happened was only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen were allowed to unlap and then the safety car was brought in immediately. So Masi broke these rules in the name of having Verstappen get one more shot on the last lap. What should have happened is the race should have finished behind the safety car. The track only cleared on lap 57/58 so the cars only had a few corners to unlap and only 5 cars were given that signal. Sainz was 3rd but couldn't race Max because there was a McLaren in between them.


----------



## SD83

Thanks, that explains it. Just watched the highlights and was really confused as to why there was a McLaren behind Verstappen, but Sainz listed as third...


----------



## r33per

StevenC said:


> The rules for the safety car are that either all cars can unlap themselves, the race can be restarted without unlapping cars, or the race can finish behind the safety car. If cars are allowed to unlap, the race will be restarted on the following lap.
> 
> What happened was only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen were allowed to unlap and then the safety car was brought in immediately. So Masi broke these rules in the name of having Verstappen get one more shot on the last lap. What should have happened is the race should have finished behind the safety car. The track only cleared on lap 57/58 so the cars only had a few corners to unlap and only 5 cars were given that signal. Sainz was 3rd but couldn't race Max because there was a McLaren in between them.


And that's the problem: the drivers and teams are not part of that decision (save for a bit of radio pressure) so this ALL came from race control/stewards who are the FIA. They wanted a new champ - like 2005 - so they've grasped the opportunity Latifi granted them to effect that.


----------



## StevenC




----------



## Werecow

Drivers not following the rules (Max mainly), race control not policing the rules except for when it suits them, race control bending or even breaking their own rules when it suits them or sometimes just out of incompetence.

I've never actively supported an individual driver, i just like hard but fair racing. I've hated a lot of the actual racing and events i've seen this season. So in all serious after today, i think i'm done with the sport after watching it for about 30 years since i was a small kid


----------



## StevenC

I'm on the same page. 3 years of Masi, dumb sprint races and now just blatant race fixing. Not interested.

On a different note, that's now 2 F1 titles the FIA have screwed Lewis out of.


----------



## Viginez

considering how many times max was kicked out of races, hes the rightful winner of the season
also the track was already clear by round 56
props to lewis congratulating him


----------



## StevenC

Viginez said:


> considering how many times max was kicked out of races, hes the rightful winner of the season
> also the track was already clear by round 56


Citations needed

The track was clear for unlapping on lap 57, so shouldn't have started until lap 59. But there was no lap 59 so they started it against the rules. The driver that won on track was the rightful winner this season and the FIA denied us of that.


----------



## Mathemagician

So imo for all the idolizing that F1 fans do of guys like Schumacher and Senna, when someone shows up who is literally willing to risk it all for a single point people’s panties get in a wad. (not specifically here just like in general).

Seeing comments about his driving it’s like do people want drivers to go for broke or not? Every overtake Max made in the last race was clear and he stayed on the track so no one can say he torpedoed. Lewis received a gimme in the first lap.

Max was the better driver this season, in the second best car. But that last lap was weird AF.

It was a strange way for it to end for sure. But at the same time Max drove better more often as evidenced by the 1 more win going into the last race even with the loss of a P1 due to tire blowout. 

Nothing is final until it’s final though and this thing is for sure going to take it’s time in their courts.

Netflix has a treasure trove of material to edit so next season better be damn good, lol. In the end I liked seeing Max win, but I get the negativity towards that last race. Wild ride tho.


----------



## setsuna7

Finally!! That pigheaded fuck face is no longer the world champion. Don’t get me wrong, LH is a great driver, but for someone who has met him personally, behind the scenes, and saw how he treat people behind the camera lenses, I’ve not a single ounce of respect for him.


----------



## slavboi_delight

That last 3 to 4 laps, pretty much sum up the whole season. 
Controversial until the end.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> So imo for all the idolizing that F1 fans do of guys like Schumacher and Senna, when someone shows up who is literally willing to risk it all for a single point people’s panties get in a wad. (not specifically here just like in general).
> 
> Seeing comments about his driving it’s like do people want drivers to go for broke or not? Every overtake Max made in the last race was clear and he stayed on the track so no one can say he torpedoed. Lewis received a gimme in the first lap.
> 
> Max was the better driver this season, in the second best car. But that last lap was weird AF.
> 
> It was a strange way for it to end for sure. But at the same time Max drove better more often as evidenced by the 1 more win going into the last race even with the loss of a P1 due to tire blowout.
> 
> Nothing is final until it’s final though and this thing is for sure going to take it’s time in their courts.
> 
> Netflix has a treasure trove of material to edit so next season better be damn good, lol. In the end I liked seeing Max win, but I get the negativity towards that last race. Wild ride tho.


Senna and Schumacher were dirty drivers and I don't think they should be idolised. The problem with Max's driving is that he just doesn't care about the rules and gets treated differently for it. He still thinks he didn't do anything wrong in brake testing and his only move is to run people off the track before the apex. You saw that in the race yesterday on the first lap, which was a desperate divebomb.

The especially troubling thing is Max has talent. He made a great move on the second restart in SA for example, but instead of demonstrating that class he'd rather park his car on top of people. He expects to be handed positions and thinks he's only allowed to be overtaken if he breaks down. 

Max did not have the second best car. That's just a lie. No statistic supports that. They were the fastest car at more tasks this season and had more wins and poles.

It's hard to justify Max's superiority over a season with race wins after he was gifted a win in Spa and then ran into Hamilton in Monza with a chance for the win. At best it was even and Red Bull had better reliability. 

I can't enjoy Max winning because he's a bad person and a bad racer.


----------



## Mathemagician

I agree that in general if a driver dives through a corner and can’t keep it on the track then that’s a fuck-up and they need to give back position. But if like in the last race he can take a crazy corner and keep his car on the track then in effect he “won” that corner and the other guy should back out. 

If instead Lewis does it properly then he of course deserves the corner too.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> I agree that in general if a driver dives through a corner and can’t keep it on the track then that’s a fuck-up and they need to give back position. But if like in the last race he can take a crazy corner and keep his car on the track then in effect he “won” that corner and the other guy should back out.
> 
> If instead Lewis does it properly then he of course deserves the corner too.


My problem with Max's driving is that it violates Fernando's Law.


----------



## Viginez

if max had a car nearly as good as lewis' he wouldn't be risking that much
he has to compensate for it and it worked out for him
rb had a decent car, if not equally good, but then merc pulled out their special edition engine from the basement when they realized things could get tight


----------



## Bodes

After watching the race, both Lewis and Max, plus Wolffe and Horner for that matter, were all whinging little sooks.
Both Lewis and Max saying everything is unfair. They can't both be right.
Wolffe begging for the stewards to not let lapped cars through, which was probably the reason for Massi letting those 5 cars through to shut them up. (Still was wrong).

All four of them after the first corner attempted undertake by Max. The way I see it was Max had the corner but pushed Lewis off. Lewis should have slowed down more so Max was right up his gear box, but still be behind at the next corner. He would have still driven away from Max.

Multiple terrible calls by Massi. Can't see him retaining his job next year as he has too many teams not happy with his inconsistent calls.

Should Lewis be champ? Probably, but damn did Merc do their best to not allow him to win that Abudabi race.
Does Max deserve to be champ? Maybe, but not because of this race.


----------



## SD83

Senna & Schumacher came to my mind as well, along with some other famous names... people that maybe shouldn't be idolized to the degree they are, but who made the sport more interesting. And if the Lewis vs. Max thing this season was anything, it was a great story. And I think that is what makes people remember Senna vs Prost or Schumacher vs Hill etc. to this day. You can't just replace any of those with another person of the same racing skill. To some you got hero vs. villain, to others you got two assholes competing over who's the most successful piece of shit... and that is something that I think Max has, besides skill and opportunity, that for example Perez or Sainz or Leclerc don't seem to have. 

As long as no one gets seriously hurt, I'm watching this for entertainment. I am very interested in the technology behind all of it, it's hugely fascinating to me, from the precision that goes into building the engines to the efford of transporting all this stuff around the globe, but when the lights go green, I want suspense and action. I want someone to root for, someone to be mad at. And in that respect, having someone like Max in F1 is a great thing. Even Mazepin. No one cares about Latifi or even Mick Schumacher (besides the fact that he is the son of Michael Schumacher), Mazepin is worse than both combined, but it seems people get a lot more emotional about him than the other two. And honestly, I had been afraid that we'd see season after season after season of disposable drivers battleing it out, being super competetive, super skilled, but completely blank in terms of character. 
[/rant]


----------



## Bodes

SD83 said:


> [/rant]



You are right. How many seasons have we all thought "yep, yet another win that was expected", "Did anyone actually overtake ready?" Or "yawn!"?

The mid-pack this year was abso-friggin-lutely spectacular, I read. I would have seen it but the awful broadcast rarely showed it. I only ascertained this thought through watching the timing screen on the side of the TV...
Everyone bar those driving the Haas, Williams and Alphas had a chance to be close to the podium on any given weekend. Sometimes even the Williams and Alphas pulled out something spectacular.


----------



## Viginez

Bodes said:


> Should Lewis be champ? Probably, but damn did Merc do their best to not allow him to win that Abudabi race.


rb is always sneakier when it comes to strategies and improvising, they also have the fastest pit stops
merc relied on their speed and drove very conservative, basically only reacting to rb, pitting when rb pits etc
they went for track position instead for fresh tires during safety car, stayed out and it backfired
that said, it was not easy for max to overtake lewis in the last lap as many think


----------



## StevenC

Mercedes drops their appeal which means they've made a deal. I hope the W13 is the most dominant car of all time. 



Viginez said:


> rb is always sneakier when it comes to strategies and improvising, they also have the fastest pit stops
> merc relied on their speed and drove very conservative, basically only reacting to rb, pitting when rb pits etc
> they went for track position instead for fresh tires during safety car, stayed out and it backfired
> that said, it was not easy for max to overtake lewis in the last lap as many think


You aren't making any sense. Mercedes made all the right decisions and if the rules had been followed they'd have won.


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> Mercedes drops their appeal which means they've made a deal. I hope the W13 is the most dominant car of all time.
> 
> 
> You aren't making any sense. Mercedes made all the right decisions and if the rules had been followed they'd have won.



On the first part: Nah, no you don’t. No amount of “wanting revenge” would help the sport at all if Mercedes had a DAS-level superiority over every other car. The # of moderate/new/fickle viewers who would tune out and thus drop revenues if the story went back to “merc 1-2 every weekend”. 

On the second part, kind of hard to disagree here. It was fucking weird, and the only reason RB had a shot was because of the “unique” decisions made. 

Imo they really should have red-flagged the race immediately with so few laps to go. 

That would have maintained places and allowed for a full restart thus “unlapping” the cars ahead.


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> On the first part: Nah, no you don’t. No amount of “wanting revenge” would help the sport at all if Mercedes had a DAS-level superiority over every other car. The # of moderate/new/fickle viewers who would tune out and thus drop revenues if the story went back to “merc 1-2 every weekend”.
> 
> On the second part, kind of hard to disagree here. It was fucking weird, and the only reason RB had a shot was because of the “unique” decisions made.
> 
> Imo they really should have red-flagged the race immediately with so few laps to go.
> 
> That would have maintained places and allowed for a full restart thus “unlapping” the cars ahead.


DAS wasn't what made the W11 the fastest car ever, it just helped with tyre warm up on flying laps. It was faster because they perfected the low rake concept and then that got nerfed this year.

The sport helped itself out of legitimacy this past weekend. Any moderate/new/fickle viewer that would tune out over a team being the best in a sport about teams shouldn't be watching after Abu Dhabi anyway.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Mercedes drops their appeal which means they've made a deal. I hope the W13 is the most dominant car of all time.
> 
> 
> You aren't making any sense. Mercedes made all the right decisions and if the rules had been followed they'd have won.



Unless they had gotten Latifis car out of the way quickly enough for all the lapped cars to get back to their places. It was a risky decision, it was gambling, and they SHOULD have won that gamble, but if I'm not mistaken they were in the position to play it safe, Hamilton was far enough ahead of Verstappen so he could have come in for fresh tires as well...
As for the "made a deal"... no matter who was right (and, again, I think Mercedes were), it would still be a title won in court. And it isn't just any championship title, it would have been Hamiltons eighth title. I don't know who makes which decisions there, but if I was Hamilton, and I had confidence in my skill, my team, next years car and my new team mate... I don't think I'd want that title.

As for viewers and questionable decisions, those are made in every sport all the time. A friend of mine is a massive football fan, and according to him, ALL the referees hate his favourite team, and they lost a bunch of matches because the other team got awarded a penalty for no reason, or their team did not, they got a red card, the other team should have but didn't etc. And no one stopped watching football after Diego Maradona did his "hand of god" thing. If they care at all, which many probably won't, they hope Hamilton & Mercedes get their revenge. And their dislike for Verstappen & Red Bull just turned into passionate hate. Red Bull are really good at being the villain in any sport they take part in. 

One way or another, I can't believe I'm rooting for Hamilton next year  I'd love to see Russell compete for no.2 in the championship.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> Unless they had gotten Latifis car out of the way quickly enough for all the lapped cars to get back to their places. It was a risky decision, it was gambling, and they SHOULD have won that gamble, but if I'm not mistaken they were in the position to play it safe, Hamilton was far enough ahead of Verstappen so he could have come in for fresh tires as well...
> As for the "made a deal"... no matter who was right (and, again, I think Mercedes were), it would still be a title won in court. And it isn't just any championship title, it would have been Hamiltons eighth title. I don't know who makes which decisions there, but if I was Hamilton, and I had confidence in my skill, my team, next years car and my new team mate... I don't think I'd want that title.
> 
> As for viewers and questionable decisions, those are made in every sport all the time. A friend of mine is a massive football fan, and according to him, ALL the referees hate his favourite team, and they lost a bunch of matches because the other team got awarded a penalty for no reason, or their team did not, they got a red card, the other team should have but didn't etc. And no one stopped watching football after Diego Maradona did his "hand of god" thing. If they care at all, which many probably won't, they hope Hamilton & Mercedes get their revenge. And their dislike for Verstappen & Red Bull just turned into passionate hate. Red Bull are really good at being the villain in any sport they take part in.
> 
> One way or another, I can't believe I'm rooting for Hamilton next year  I'd love to see Russell compete for no.2 in the championship.


Mercedes didn't have the gap to pit safely to Verstappen. If they had pitted, Verstappen would stay out and hope to win under safety car or crash. People saying Red Bull made any strategy calls are forgetting that 3rd place was Perez at the time and more than a pitstop behind the leaders. That's why Verstappen was able to box a second time. Mercedes made the right decisions given what they had.

This isn't so much like a bad penalty call as it is being up 3-0 and then the referee decides the match is going to penalty shootout but only the other team can have a goalkeeper.

Hamilton wants to win on the track, I appreciate that, but the fact is if the FIA didn't screw him over he'd have 9 WDCs already.


----------



## Mathemagician

I wanna see Russell compete for first next year. I’m sure it won’t happen given several reasons not the least of which is his teammate is Lewis Hamilton 7 time WDC. 

But a man can dream.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Allright guys, the dust has settled since the last GP shit-show and the test drives started at Barcelona. Anyone in to make some pre-season prediction? With them brand new car models, I have a feeling that the cards might be shuffled so any wild guess is welcome!

*Driver champion: Lewis Hamilton* will secure his record 8th world championship title and retire after. That being said, I'm hoping for a surprise run from Lando Norris as the McLarens will outscore the Ferraris this year.
*
Constructor champion: Mercedes-AMG*. Hamilton and Russell are a stronger duo than Verstappen and Checo in my opinion. 

*Biggest driver improvement: Mick Schumacher*. While still being part of the bottom three, Haas will be able to score some points thanks to Schumacher, and Mazepin will.... well might finish more races.

*Biggest team improvement: Williams* will be back in the "rest of the best", competing with Ferrari and Alpine for the 4th place overall with Albon securing the most point of the two drivers. Alpha-Tauri will be the wildcard in there though, but only thanks to Gasly, Tsunoda still lacking experience.

Pretty sure I'll be wrong on many, if not all of my predictions, but eh, its all fun and game and I'm looking forward for this season.


----------



## eaeolian

Vostre Roy said:


> and Mazepin will.... well might finish more races.



I put the o/u at 4, and I'll take the under. He is completely, totally, absolutely horrible.


----------



## Bodes

Does anyone read into Verstappen doing 700km on day 1, more than that'll get them some good driving data?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is over 2 races worth of driving, but it is certainly not the warm up/cool down cycle that goes on over race weekends. That is when some issues really pop up with the constant expansion and contraction of parts. I don't think it greatly shows proper in-season reliability.

Edit: bad spelling


----------



## Bodes

Mazepin's contract has been terminated.
I would have preferred him to go out based on his inability to drive safely...

Good luck to his replacement, which seems to be Fittipaldi.

Let's not turn this into a thread about the war.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Yeah the kid was not F1 level at all but sacking him for being russian, while he has fuck all to do with what's happening sucks.

Damn I never thought I'd feel bad for that kid


----------



## LostTheTone

Vostre Roy said:


> Yeah the kid was not F1 level at all but sacking him for being russian, while he has fuck all to do with what's happening sucks.
> 
> Damn I never thought I'd feel bad for that kid



It is a weird feeling, isn't it?

Where we are in F1 there are so many people who clearly deserve a shot, so part of me is happy to see a drive become free. But at the same Mazepin only got one year to try it out, in a really trash car, and it is almost unthinkable that he will get another shot to come back now. Niki is... Not a wonderful guy. But he has been working his whole life to get that drive, and it clearly meant a lot to him. And he can't really compete anywhere else, and since he was still a young, developing driver a year or two break from top flight competition probably means he will never get another shot at open wheel racing. The US won't take him, I don't think he can go back to F2, so the best he can do is F-E or rallying. That's sad for a young guy. 

I am also deeply ambivalent about seeing Fittipaldi getting the call up (at least, as far as we know atm).

On the one hand; good for him, he is the reserve driver and he has sat around waiting for a real chance to drive. He has had to come around through the hard way, not through the traditional junior series. He's moved all over, and now it finally seems that he gets to the top of the mountain. Seriously, good for him.

But on the other hand, it means that no-one else is getting that drive. No Piastri, no de Vries, no Ilott. And that's sad in lots of ways. Piastri is still young, and of course he seems set to get the nod once Alonso re-retires. But there's a _lot_ of guys who are getting a bit older and now don't have much choice but to build their careers elsewhere, and that means never getting into F1 at all.


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Yeah the kid was not F1 level at all but sacking him for being russian, while he has fuck all to do with what's happening sucks.
> 
> Damn I never thought I'd feel bad for that kid


I mean, he wasn't fired because he's Russian. He was fired because he has the seat because of sponsorship money from Uralkali, his dad's company, which can no longer transfer the money to Haas due to sanctions.


----------



## LostTheTone

StevenC said:


> I mean, he wasn't fired because he's Russian. He was fired because he has the seat because of sponsorship money from Uralkali, his dad's company, which can no longer transfer the money to Haas due to sanctions.



I don't believe that Uralkali have actually been sanctioned - As best as I can find out, Haas chose to cut ties voluntarily and not because Uralkali literally cannot send them money. It seems likely that they will get sanctioned eventually, so Haas were probably smart to get this over and done with before the season, but that's not the same thing. 

If nothing else; if Uralkali themselves were under international sanctions then it wouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone that they had been dropped, or that Mazepin had been fired. The announcement was perhaps not shocking, given the circumstances, but there was some general uncertainty about how Haas were going to proceed. Maz said that he was surprised to be fired, and that he had been willing to drive under the FIA flag but that was never discussed with him. 

That does rather imply that Uralkali's sponsorship could have continued if Haas wanted to keep it. Clearly they didn't, and good for them, but there was no legal reason why they couldn't have kept it.


----------



## StevenC

LostTheTone said:


> I don't believe that Uralkali have actually been sanctioned - As best as I can find out, Haas chose to cut ties voluntarily and not because Uralkali literally cannot send them money. It seems likely that they will get sanctioned eventually, so Haas were probably smart to get this over and done with before the season, but that's not the same thing.
> 
> If nothing else; if Uralkali themselves were under international sanctions then it wouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone that they had been dropped, or that Mazepin had been fired. The announcement was perhaps not shocking, given the circumstances, but there was some general uncertainty about how Haas were going to proceed. Maz said that he was surprised to be fired, and that he had been willing to drive under the FIA flag but that was never discussed with him.
> 
> That does rather imply that Uralkali's sponsorship could have continued if Haas wanted to keep it. Clearly they didn't, and good for them, but there was no legal reason why they couldn't have kept it.


The moment that Uralkali stopped being on the car (day 2 of testing) was the moment everyone knew Mazepin was about to be dropped. Whatever the order of events, no sponsor on the car means no money means no seat.


----------



## Bodes

Anyone have $10 on Magnussen getting the drive? Interesting choice.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Although they were on the track after everyone, when the track cooled off and was a bit more optimal, K-Mag flew over the track with his Haas yesterday.

You can file that sentence in the "things I wasn't expecting to say in 2022" file


----------



## manu80

Have you guys seen the Mercedes's approach on the car design ? glad to see there is still room for smart people who can read between the lines and innovation ! 
(guess they'll forbid it after the 1st race of they win lol ....)
As for Hass, well I'm a bit sad for Mazepin.it's a collateral damage in way....


----------



## StevenC

manu80 said:


> Have you guys seen the Mercedes's approach on the car design ? glad to see there is still room for smart people who can read between the lines and innovation !
> (guess they'll forbid it after the 1st race of they win lol ....)
> As for Hass, well I'm a bit sad for Mazepin.it's a collateral damage in way....


I have never been less sad for anyone than Nikita Mazepin.


----------



## Vostre Roy

So, who watched that first race? As usual, I'm at work and could only get a live commentary but damn, looked like a real roller-coaster!

Mercedes engine seems to lack power compared to Ferrari, and what a nightmare for Redbull.

Also, fucking A ride for Magnussen and Haas, 5th seems like a wet dream compared to last year


----------



## BenjaminW

Fuck yes.


----------



## StevenC

Couldn't have asked for better today! Exactly what Max and Red Bull deserve.


----------



## SD83

Still not gotten around to convincing myself to pay for it, but got a pretty decent live commentary and track map... interesting start to the season. I had not been following the pre-season stuff, not at all what I expected  Karma strikes back for Red Bull, but other than that, if we see three teams fighting for the titles, fuck yeah. Also, Magnussen just scoring more points for Haas in his first race of the season than the entire team did in both last seasons combined if I'm not mistaken, without the aid of rain or mass crashes, great job.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Also worth mentioning that both Alpha-Romeos made it to the points, not sure if they ever achieved that before.

Those Ferraris engine are very strong this year!


----------



## DSBzwo

Vostre Roy said:


> So, who watched that first race? As usual, I'm at work and could only get a live commentary but damn, looked like a real roller-coaster!
> 
> Mercedes engine seems to lack power compared to Ferrari, and what a nightmare for Redbull.
> 
> Also, fucking A ride for Magnussen and Haas, 5th seems like a wet dream compared to last year


I feel a bit sorry for Sainz, he was just as fast as Leclerc last year, and he was nowhere near winning today. Seems the new car doesn't suit him too well.

It's also a really bad Start for Williams, McLaren und Aston Martin, guess they got a lot of work to do this week.

But what a comeback race for K-Mag was that? Equaled Haas's best result, which was also him AFAIR.



Vostre Roy said:


> Also worth mentioning that both Alpha-Romeos made it to the points, not sure if they ever achieved that before.



The Team did, but not under the Alpha-Romeo name i think. Was still named Sauber back then...


----------



## Vostre Roy

DSBzwo said:


> It's also a really bad Start for Williams, McLaren und Aston Martin, guess they got a lot of work to do this week.


As I mentionned earlier, the Mercedes engine seems to be the less efficient compared to Ferrari and Honda (although the latter had reliability issues with 3 out of 4 cars retiring). At some point the last 6 drivers were running that engine (AMR, McLaren and Williams), Mercedes team has a better car to overcome this issue up to a certain point.

A bit too soon to speak about Renault, we'll see but they seems to be decent at best.


----------



## r33per

Never thought I'd be so pleased with a Ferrari 1-2. Just delighted with how RB's race turned out.

Some good results in there today. Those new sponsors for McLaren Williams and Aston Martin will probably be wanting a meeting tomorrow morning...


----------



## DSBzwo

Vostre Roy said:


> As I mentionned earlier, the Mercedes engine seems to be the less efficient compared to Ferrari and Honda (although the latter had reliability issues with 3 out of 4 cars retiring). At some point the last 6 drivers were running that engine (AMR, McLaren and Williams), Mercedes team has a better car to overcome this issue up to a certain point.
> 
> A bit too soon to speak about Renault, we'll see but they seems to be decent at best.


I agree for the Merc engine, but i'm pretty sure they are not too far off, since the Merc car looked awful to drive the whole weekend but seems still quick.
Hondas engines themselves seem to be allright (at least at the Red Bulls, dunno about Gaslys failure) Perez had a fuel pump failure, Verstappen had a Problem with the hydraulic system after they dropped him hard at the last pit-stop.

If the fight is just as close as last year, that first race DNF can get really painful for RBR.


----------



## DSBzwo

r33per said:


> Never thought I'd be so pleased with a Ferrari 1-2. Just delighted with how RB's race turned out.


Why do you hate RB so much? xD


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

StevenC said:


> Exactly what Max and Red Bull deserve.





SD83 said:


> Karma strikes back for Red Bull





r33per said:


> Just delighted with how RB's race turned out.


Some real garbage takes in here. Feel free to explain to me how the team that won more races, had more podiums, more laps led deserves any negative karma because Michael Masi did a bad job as race director.


----------



## StevenC

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> Some real garbage takes in here. Feel free to explain to me how the team that won more races, had more podiums, more laps led deserves any negative karma because Michael Masi did a bad job as race director.


Who mentioned Michael Masi? My dislike for Red Bull is entirely based on the prominent people within the team. From their fascist owner, to their two faced team principle, to their racist head of driver development, to their comedicly dishonest and rule manipulating sporting director, to their spoiled child slur using brake testing lead driver. 

Now sure, I've got problems with Michael Masi gifting then 2 wins so that people can claim they had more race wins. Once we remove the I'll gotten gains in Spa and Abu Dhabi, it's 10-9 to Mercedes on wins, and they had more podiums. 

But that's not relevant to Verstappen causing crashes on purpose, assaulting drivers, using slurs and generally not taking responsibility. Or Christian calling identical moves one week brilliant and the next attempted murder, when the only difference is the defending driver's desire to finish the race. Or what about Red Bull spending 5 years threatening to quit off they didn't get favourable regulation changes. Or Helmut being an over shit person. Or Dietrich being a racist who promotes far right views and covid skeptics. 

Literally nothing to like about that shower of bastards.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

StevenC said:


> From their fascist owner,
> racist head of driver development, slur using lead driver.
> 
> But that's not relevant to Verstappen using slurs
> Dietrich being a racist who promotes far right views and covid skeptics.


So I'll ignore the rest of what you said since it's full of childish takes and ridiculous double standards, which you'll never convince me are valid in the face of the rest of the teams' general bullshittery. We could go on and on about Lewis and Charles sending other drivers into walls for fun, Ferrari threatening to leave any time change is threatened while blatantly cheating and having the FIA cover it up, the human rights violations of title sponsors, etc. etc. If you have a problem with Red Bull, I assume you have the same problems with the rest of the grid, especially Ferrari and Mercedes.

However, I am unaware of these things you mentioned and strongly despise them so if you would please elaborate for me so that I may make a more informed decision about the teams I choose not to support. I'm happy to add RB to that list.


----------



## StevenC

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> So I'll ignore the rest of what you said since it's full of childish takes and ridiculous double standards, which you'll never convince me are valid in the face of the rest of the teams' general bullshittery. We could go on and on about Lewis and Charles sending other drivers into walls for fun, Ferrari threatening to leave any time change is threatened while blatantly cheating and having the FIA cover it up, the human rights violations of title sponsors, etc. etc. If you have a problem with Red Bull, I assume you have the same problems with the rest of the grid, especially Ferrari and Mercedes.
> 
> However, I am unaware of these things you mentioned and strongly despise them so if you would please elaborate for me so that I may make a more informed decision about the teams I choose not to support. I'm happy to add RB to that list.


So you'll have to tell me when Lewis or Charles have assaulted other drivers, because I'm coming up short. Max is another level of bullshit driver to everyone else on the grid. For example Brazil 2021 for a good example or SA 2021 for just actively dangerous driving. Or compare Monza 2021 to Monza 2018 to for Max's interpretation of what is and isn't fair racing. His approach can be summed up with his quote: "That's what you get". Lewis simply doesn't drive like that.

I had huge problems with Ferrari up until Binotto came to power and started to work on shifting the culture and now, while I don't love them, I respect them much more. Not on board with the cheating. Now, as to Mercedes you'll have to show me some examples of how my opinion of Red Bull would be a double standard. Petronas are a shit company. No team principal is as manipulative and anti sporting as Horner.

---

Now, to your question:

Max has called other drivers ableist slurs, specifically the R-word and the M-word. The M-word is also taken by a whole country to be a racist slur towards them. He said these things about Lance Stroll in practice in Portugal two years ago. The context was that Lance was starting a fast lap and Max got in the way. I'm pretty sure there was another instance where he used similar slurs about drivers, but I can't find them because that one blew up so much.

Helmut Marko chooses his words very carefully to have enough plausible deniability when he says things about Lewis, but at the same time to rile up enough racial abuse and then won't take responsibility or criticise said racisim. This one's a bit weaker admittedly. He also suggested giving all the drivers covid.

When after Horner and Marko incited a lot of racist abuse towards Hamilton, Horner said "Of course we don’t condone that, but Max received abuse as well by the way."

Dietrich Mateschitz, oh boy. He owns an Austrian TV called ServusTV. It's worth some research into, but basically it is very far right and frequently hosts people from far right political parties in Germany and Austria, runs anti-muslim and anti-refugee segments, and frequently promotes anti covid and anti vaccine conspiracies/conspiracists. He's a populist and uses dogwhistles like "international political elites", talks about "so-called political correctness". His football teams have a history of cracking down on anti-racist fans attending games.

While I have you on this topic, Carlos Sainz family supports the far right Spanish party Vox. He also posted an, at best very strange, at worst blatantly racist, story about an experience in a restaurant in Shanghai. He also did blackface. There's a reason he didn't kneel.


----------



## manu80

Well those cars look good.
Happy for Leclerc, suprised by haas and alfa romeo results. Not a huge fan of RB but the safety car really didn't help them !
and....so sad about Mclaren and williams....such a waste. Seeing a williams overtaking a Mclaren reminded me of the 90'S....but it was a the front of the race not the back !!! How I wish for a williams comeback....


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

StevenC said:


> So you'll have to tell me when Lewis or Charles have assaulted other drivers, because I'm coming up short. Max is another level of bullshit driver to everyone else on the grid. For example Brazil 2021 for a good example or SA 2021 for just actively dangerous driving. Or compare Monza 2021 to Monza 2018 to for Max's interpretation of what is and isn't fair racing. His approach can be summed up with his quote: "That's what you get". Lewis simply doesn't drive like that.
> 
> I had huge problems with Ferrari up until Binotto came to power and started to work on shifting the culture and now, while I don't love them, I respect them much more. Not on board with the cheating. Now, as to Mercedes you'll have to show me some examples of how my opinion of Red Bull would be a double standard. Petronas are a shit company. No team principal is as manipulative and anti sporting as Horner.
> 
> ---
> 
> Now, to your question:
> 
> Max has called other drivers ableist slurs, specifically the R-word and the M-word. The M-word is also taken by a whole country to be a racist slur towards them. He said these things about Lance Stroll in practice in Portugal two years ago. The context was that Lance was starting a fast lap and Max got in the way. I'm pretty sure there was another instance where he used similar slurs about drivers, but I can't find them because that one blew up so much.
> 
> Helmut Marko chooses his words very carefully to have enough plausible deniability when he says things about Lewis, but at the same time to rile up enough racial abuse and then won't take responsibility or criticise said racisim. This one's a bit weaker admittedly. He also suggested giving all the drivers covid.
> 
> When after Horner and Marko incited a lot of racist abuse towards Hamilton, Horner said "Of course we don’t condone that, but Max received abuse as well by the way."
> 
> Dietrich Mateschitz, oh boy. He owns an Austrian TV called ServusTV. It's worth some research into, but basically it is very far right and frequently hosts people from far right political parties in Germany and Austria, runs anti-muslim and anti-refugee segments, and frequently promotes anti covid and anti vaccine conspiracies/conspiracists. He's a populist and uses dogwhistles like "international political elites", talks about "so-called political correctness". His football teams have a history of cracking down on anti-racist fans attending games.
> 
> While I have you on this topic, Carlos Sainz family supports the far right Spanish party Vox. He also posted an, at best very strange, at worst blatantly racist, story about an experience in a restaurant in Shanghai. He also did blackface. There's a reason he didn't kneel.



We're getting close to off-limits topics here, but I'll do my best to keep this as clear of politics as I can.

To your point about Lewis not driving like a dick, that's just silly. When he's under pressure, he drives like a dick. Max certainly does it more often, but come on you can't be serious if you think Lewis is a clean driver. Lewis the GOAT for a reason and he gets his elbows out right up to the line when he sees the need, as has Vettel and Alonso and Schumacher and Senna and on and on. He put Max in the wall at Silverstone. It was blatant and it won him the race. Now you can find me a Max counterexample (Monza perhaps?), and I'll find a Lewis one and we'll go back and forth until they end up level on points in Abu Dhabi. The FIA did a bad job of discouraging bad racing all season, and without those moves the season looks very different. You can't just cherry pick the stuff about drivers you don't like. Remember that time Russel gave Bottas a big ol' whack after they smashed a wall? How about when Bottas went bowling? Come on man.

To your point about Ferrari, they were cheating in 2019 as well as running Marlboro sponsors, well after Binotto had been there. If we're considering 2018 fair game then 2019 has to be as well.

To your point about Horner, I agree he shouts snake words into the wind but you compared that to Petronas which _really_ is not a good look.

As to the political stuff, I strongly condemn the beliefs of Marko, Mateschitz and Sainz you outlined. Nothing else to say here.

So in summary, Red Bull is run by children at best, racist oligarchs at worst. Fair play. I can see why Lewis fans would be justifiably defensive after the pretty awful things he's endured over his career in motorsports but I really still don't get the hate against Max specifically. He may have incidents to his name, but he was raised by an actual psychopath and started in F1 when he actually was a child and IMO has been distinctly maturing year on year. After reading up on the slurs incident, it seems that F1 should have taken steps to punish him so that a clear message would be sent that this behavior is not OK. Instead they sent the implicit message that abuse would be tolerated so long as you drive your fancy go-kart fast enough, which is pretty bad. Hope he's reflected on his actions but we have no way of knowing.

IDK man, you've got some good points in there but it still seems more like you've got an axe to grind than anything else.


----------



## StevenC

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> We're getting close to off-limits topics here, but I'll do my best to keep this as clear of politics as I can.
> 
> To your point about Lewis not driving like a dick, that's just silly. When he's under pressure, he drives like a dick. Max certainly does it more often, but come on you can't be serious if you think Lewis is a clean driver. Lewis the GOAT for a reason and he gets his elbows out right up to the line when he sees the need, as has Vettel and Alonso and Schumacher and Senna and on and on. He put Max in the wall at Silverstone. It was blatant and it won him the race. Now you can find me a Max counterexample (Monza perhaps?), and I'll find a Lewis one and we'll go back and forth until they end up level on points in Abu Dhabi. The FIA did a bad job of discouraging bad racing all season, and without those moves the season looks very different. You can't just cherry pick the stuff about drivers you don't like. Remember that time Russel gave Bottas a big ol' whack after they smashed a wall? How about when Bottas went bowling? Come on man.
> 
> To your point about Ferrari, they were cheating in 2019 as well as running Marlboro sponsors, well after Binotto had been there. If we're considering 2018 fair game then 2019 has to be as well.
> 
> To your point about Horner, I agree he shouts snake words into the wind but you compared that to Petronas which _really_ is not a good look.
> 
> As to the political stuff, I strongly condemn the beliefs of Marko, Mateschitz and Sainz you outlined. Nothing else to say here.
> 
> So in summary, Red Bull is run by children at best, racist oligarchs at worst. Fair play. I can see why Lewis fans would be justifiably defensive after the pretty awful things he's endured over his career in motorsports but I really still don't get the hate against Max specifically. He may have incidents to his name, but he was raised by an actual psychopath and started in F1 when he actually was a child and IMO has been distinctly maturing year on year. After reading up on the slurs incident, it seems that F1 should have taken steps to punish him so that a clear message would be sent that this behavior is not OK. Instead they sent the implicit message that abuse would be tolerated so long as you drive your fancy go-kart fast enough, which is pretty bad. Hope he's reflected on his actions but we have no way of knowing.
> 
> IDK man, you've got some good points in there but it still seems more like you've got an axe to grind than anything else.


I mean, I've got an axe to grind with Petronas too. The difference is there is stuff to despise at every level of the Red Bull organisation. I would really prefer Mercedes weren't sponsored by a company with a history of war crimes. I also very strongly despise Jim Ratcliffe for being a Brexiteer piece of shit. But then on the other hand the rest of that organisation led by Lewis and Toto fighting for equality and taking a stand that wins back.

Yeah, I think that was a dick move from George. Bottas locked up in Budapest because Norris went in front and he had no front grip and couldn't see. Incompetent, sure, at best. But the "bowling" angle is just classic Max fan conspiracy nonsense, because that could have happened to literally anyone. Like say Singapore 2017. If you have to come up with bad mistakes to counter brake testing, you're grasping at straws massively. Come on man.

Here's the difference between Lewis and Max, or Christian and Toto, or Red Bull and Mercedes: Spain 2021. Max divebombs Lewis into the first corner with the outcomes being Lewis backs out or they crash with whatever results come of it. Lewis backs out, but has the faster car for the race and wins anyway. Christian had this to say: “Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well. He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence." So Max divebomb where Lewis backs out = mega. Then we go to Silverstone, and what happens? Lewis drops one down the inside of Max, Max can't swallow his pride so barely brakes and commits harder than qualifying, gets tagged and gets sent out. Christian Horner calls this a professional foul and attempted murder. So Lewis divebomb where Max doesn't back out = pure evil. The difference between those moves was the maturity and compliance of the other driver. Max races everyone else with the mentality "you move or we crash", but thinks no one else should be allowed to drive like that. He can't handle the consequences and has a weeks long media campaign against Lewis and Mercedes. You can look at all his other incidents as well if you want, but that's the real crux here. Max doesn't like the way Max races.

Other examples of Max being a child. Baku 2018. Monza 2018 when he ran Bottas off the road for trying to overtake and called the penalty he received "killing racing" (Bottas got air time). Saudi Arabia, leaving the podium immediately because he thought the penalties he got (which didn't affect his finishing position) were too harsh, when they were for causing collisions and illegally maintaining positions. The multiple times he has set qualifying laps under double yellow conditions and complained about it being unfair. Every time Daniel got a pole position. The start of 2018 when people asked if he was going to change something after a series of crashes and he had a tantrum. When he got a penalty for crashing into Bottas in Monaco 2019. How he wouldn't use the words "Lewis Hamilton" or "Mercedes" for the second half of 2021 but insisted there was no mental battle. Thursday when asked about Abu Dhabi and Michael Masi when he just said he had more wins (as demonstrated before this is a dumb argument).

There are plenty of reasons to dislike Max Verstappen. Like the fact he brings his woman beating, child abusing father to every race and we all have to pretend Jos isn't a piece of shit and not talk about how his mum and sister only go to races when his dad isn't there.

But come on. Lewis is one of the cleanest drivers of all time, especially in comparison to other successful drivers. To compare Lewis to Alonso, Senna, Schumacher and Vettel is to deny the fact that Lewis is so clean by comparison. Alonso had his team orchestrate a crash, Seb drove into Lewis on purpose, and Senna and Schumacher have intentionally crashed out title rivals. I'm sorry, but you're being disingenuous there.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

StevenC said:


> I mean, I've got an axe to grind with Petronas too. The difference is there is stuff to despise at every level of the Red Bull organisation. I would really prefer Mercedes weren't sponsored by a company with a history of war crimes. I also very strongly despise Jim Ratcliffe for being a Brexiteer piece of shit. But then on the other hand the rest of that organisation led by Lewis and Toto fighting for equality and taking a stand that wins back.
> 
> Yeah, I think that was a dick move from George. Bottas locked up in Budapest because Norris went in front and he had no front grip and couldn't see. Incompetent, sure, at best. But the "bowling" angle is just classic Max fan conspiracy nonsense, because that could have happened to literally anyone. Like say Singapore 2017. If you have to come up with bad mistakes to counter brake testing, you're grasping at straws massively. Come on man.
> 
> Here's the difference between Lewis and Max, or Christian and Toto, or Red Bull and Mercedes: Spain 2021. Max divebombs Lewis into the first corner with the outcomes being Lewis backs out or they crash with whatever results come of it. Lewis backs out, but has the faster car for the race and wins anyway. Christian had this to say: “Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well. He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence." So Max divebomb where Lewis backs out = mega. Then we go to Silverstone, and what happens? Lewis drops one down the inside of Max, Max can't swallow his pride so barely brakes and commits harder than qualifying, gets tagged and gets sent out. Christian Horner calls this a professional foul and attempted murder. So Lewis divebomb where Max doesn't back out = pure evil. The difference between those moves was the maturity and compliance of the other driver. Max races everyone else with the mentality "you move or we crash", but thinks no one else should be allowed to drive like that. He can't handle the consequences and has a weeks long media campaign against Lewis and Mercedes. You can look at all his other incidents as well if you want, but that's the real crux here. Max doesn't like the way Max races.
> 
> Other examples of Max being a child. Baku 2018. Monza 2018 when he ran Bottas off the road for trying to overtake and called the penalty he received "killing racing" (Bottas got air time). Saudi Arabia, leaving the podium immediately because he thought the penalties he got (which didn't affect his finishing position) were too harsh, when they were for causing collisions and illegally maintaining positions. The multiple times he has set qualifying laps under double yellow conditions and complained about it being unfair. Every time Daniel got a pole position. The start of 2018 when people asked if he was going to change something after a series of crashes and he had a tantrum. When he got a penalty for crashing into Bottas in Monaco 2019. How he wouldn't use the words "Lewis Hamilton" or "Mercedes" for the second half of 2021 but insisted there was no mental battle. Thursday when asked about Abu Dhabi and Michael Masi when he just said he had more wins (as demonstrated before this is a dumb argument).
> 
> There are plenty of reasons to dislike Max Verstappen. Like the fact he brings his woman beating, child abusing father to every race and we all have to pretend Jos isn't a piece of shit and not talk about how his mum and sister only go to races when his dad isn't there.
> 
> But come on. Lewis is one of the cleanest drivers of all time, especially in comparison to other successful drivers. To compare Lewis to Alonso, Senna, Schumacher and Vettel is to deny the fact that Lewis is so clean by comparison. Alonso had his team orchestrate a crash, Seb drove into Lewis on purpose, and Senna and Schumacher have intentionally crashed out title rivals. I'm sorry, but you're being disingenuous there.



I don't think I'm being disingenuous. Lewis crashes out plenty of drivers. Maybe less than those others, but fewer than Kimi (as an example). Why is your bar arbitrarily whatever his aggression level is? 

Bottas going bowling is a funny way to put that incident, and it changed the points allocation-nobody actually thinks it was on purpose. My points were, broadly, that drivers all get heated and do rude or stupid things. Drivers make mistakes. You absolutely cannot argue that if *cherry picked incident that gives Lewis a win* happened that Max would not have won as many races, because anyone can then cherry pick any number of incidents that would have given Max more wins. There's no point. Max _did_ have more wins, that can't be undone.

You're doing exactly what I said was pointless by going into details about Max's aggressive driving. _It's still cherry picking. _I can point out that Lewis cut a corner to keep the place in Abu Dhabi. It would be pointless cherry-picking though, because Lewis would have just taken the place back later. Over and done with. Lewis turned out on Max in Silverstone, Max turned out on Lewis in Brazil. Both over and done with. Horner is always going to say what benefits his team, it doesn't make him manipulative it just makes him stupid and tribal. There's no grand conspiracy, just a bunch of hotheaded drivers going at it. Your confirmation bias is showing.

"other examples of max being a child" were 3-4 years ago. I think it's pretty well agreed that Max was a knob in 2018. I'll beat that dead horse with you if you want. Heck we can talk about him being a knob in 2017 too if you want. Plenty of 2019 knobbery as well. It decreases by the year.

The "brake testing" incident was pretty clearly both drivers' fault. Lewis should have passed. Max should have stayed closer to the wall. There is no conspiracy, just nerves and poor communication.


Blaming Jos on Max is a low blow. It's clear Max is scared of him. While we're piling on his rough family life we can also call him a dick for getting with Kvyat's ex. All fair game I suppose.

The worst part about all of this is that because of tribalism like yours, it seems like I don't think Lewis should have won last year or that I think Max earned it more. I just hate bad takes and echo chambers. What Lewis has pulled off since I've started watching in 2018 has been magic. One of the first races I ever saw live had Lewis spin out lap 1 and finish second after driving up from last (while complaining the whole time, but I bet you'd say only Max complains a lot). The gamble to crank a brand new engine at the end of last season was brilliant; Red Bull went from dominant to sitting ducks. He earned those points but the flipside is: so did Max. I don't see the reasons you've drawn your lines where you've drawn them. Your arguments do not back them up. Your arguments are tailored to the line rather than the other way around.

A 3rd-place constructors' Haas for your time:


----------



## kamello

wtf is the M word?


----------



## BenjaminW

kamello said:


> wtf is the M word?


Mongol. Max said that along with retard after an incident with Stroll during the 2020 Portuguese GP.


----------



## SD83

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> Some real garbage takes in here. Feel free to explain to me how the team that won more races, had more podiums, more laps led deserves any negative karma because Michael Masi did a bad job as race director.


I'd still say that some of those victories were really lucky for them/bad luck for the opponents. Especially that last victory was a combination of a lot of unlikely events. And that's just what they had here: Bad luck. No one got hurt, no one got injured, the engines just had a bad day....
I think it was great we saw a real battle for the title last season, and as much as I respect Hamilton and would consider him one of the best, if not the best driver of his generation, it just gets a bit boring when you know who's going to win before the first race even starts. I still don't like Verstappen, for various reasons, but a part of me wishes he'd stay somewhat controversial in his actions & words. A bit of "good guy vs bad guy", someone the fans can root for or get mad at rather than almost flawless racing machines like Hamilton or Schumacher in their prime. 

They had some good luck, they had some bad luck. That's racing. Again, if we get three teams fighting for constructors title and two, maybe three drivers competing for the drivers title, that's probably the best thing that could happen to F1 and would make the races so much more interesting.


----------



## manu80

first time i hear those things about Jos V. ....weird...


----------



## StevenC

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> I don't think I'm being disingenuous. Lewis crashes out plenty of drivers. Maybe less than those others, but fewer than Kimi (as an example). Why is your bar arbitrarily whatever his aggression level is?
> 
> Bottas going bowling is a funny way to put that incident, and it changed the points allocation-nobody actually thinks it was on purpose. My points were, broadly, that drivers all get heated and do rude or stupid things. Drivers make mistakes. You absolutely cannot argue that if *cherry picked incident that gives Lewis a win* happened that Max would not have won as many races, because anyone can then cherry pick any number of incidents that would have given Max more wins. There's no point. Max _did_ have more wins, that can't be undone.
> 
> You're doing exactly what I said was pointless by going into details about Max's aggressive driving. _It's still cherry picking. _I can point out that Lewis cut a corner to keep the place in Abu Dhabi. It would be pointless cherry-picking though, because Lewis would have just taken the place back later. Over and done with. Lewis turned out on Max in Silverstone, Max turned out on Lewis in Brazil. Both over and done with. Horner is always going to say what benefits his team, it doesn't make him manipulative it just makes him stupid and tribal. There's no grand conspiracy, just a bunch of hotheaded drivers going at it. Your confirmation bias is showing.
> 
> "other examples of max being a child" were 3-4 years ago. I think it's pretty well agreed that Max was a knob in 2018. I'll beat that dead horse with you if you want. Heck we can talk about him being a knob in 2017 too if you want. Plenty of 2019 knobbery as well. It decreases by the year.
> 
> The "brake testing" incident was pretty clearly both drivers' fault. Lewis should have passed. Max should have stayed closer to the wall. There is no conspiracy, just nerves and poor communication.
> 
> 
> Blaming Jos on Max is a low blow. It's clear Max is scared of him. While we're piling on his rough family life we can also call him a dick for getting with Kvyat's ex. All fair game I suppose.
> 
> The worst part about all of this is that because of tribalism like yours, it seems like I don't think Lewis should have won last year or that I think Max earned it more. I just hate bad takes and echo chambers. What Lewis has pulled off since I've started watching in 2018 has been magic. One of the first races I ever saw live had Lewis spin out lap 1 and finish second after driving up from last (while complaining the whole time, but I bet you'd say only Max complains a lot). The gamble to crank a brand new engine at the end of last season was brilliant; Red Bull went from dominant to sitting ducks. He earned those points but the flipside is: so did Max. I don't see the reasons you've drawn your lines where you've drawn them. Your arguments do not back them up. Your arguments are tailored to the line rather than the other way around.
> 
> A 3rd-place constructors' Haas for your time:



I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Hamilton is out in Q1, must be a while since (and if ever) it has happen

Edit: just saw a post on my Facebook feed saying last time it happen was Brazil 2017

Edit 2: and now the Q2 session is red flagged after Schumacher's crash. Have yet to see it but it was apparently quite a bad one


----------



## BenjaminW

Vostre Roy said:


> Edit 2: and now the Q2 session is red flagged after Schumacher's crash. Have yet to see it but it was apparently quite a bad one


All the proof you need that this track is unsafe. But I guess this track is okay because money.


----------



## kamello

so happy for Checo <3


----------



## Vostre Roy

BenjaminW said:


> All the proof you need that this track is unsafe. But I guess this track is okay because money.


As if it wasn't unsafe enough, the fact that a nearby fuel plant was the target of missiles attack ain't helping either.

Good news regarding Mick, posted a message saying that he was not injured in his accident, still won't race tomorrow.

And Ricciardo, who is having a bad season start, has been awarded a 3 position grid penalty for an incident with Ocon.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

Kevin Magnussen
is tied on points with Checo
in a fucking Haas

_-a haiku by me_


----------



## Bodes

Good racing.
Max's whining is certainly getting old. Just race.
There are ways to say that people are doing the wrong thing. Crying down the mic is not one of them.

I respect his driving ability, glad he beat Lewis last (just for someone different and different manufacturer winning) but STHU.


----------



## manu80

was surprised to see Haas on par with mercedes... !!!!
Ferrari seems to be back on track, great race finish.
and Williams is a mess....this pisses me off so much....Frank Williams must be rolling in his grave..


----------



## StevenC

manu80 said:


> was surprised to see Haas on par with mercedes... !!!!
> Ferrari seems to be back on track, great race finish.
> and Williams is a mess....this pisses me off so much....Frank Williams must be rolling in his grave..


The Haas wasn't on par with the Mercedes. Hamilton got past and was lapping faster the whole race, meanwhile George was easy ahead. Magnussen only finished ahead because of the pit lane closing at the wrong time for Hamilton.


----------



## eaeolian

Haas definitely seems to have it coming together a little better this year, though I wouldn't put them in the Merc tier just yet. Still, compared to the last couple of seasons...


----------



## Mathemagician

Holy shit that was some tight racing all the way down the pack. These new regs are doing a great job in that regard. Sucks to see so many DNF’s back to back but I guess that’s expected when so much is new. 

Ferrari power is back tho. Whew.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Stolen from Facebook, the only Mercedes that has been leading so far (and by the look of it, might be the only one this season lol)


----------



## SD83

Judging from the highlights, seems to have been a somewhat entertaining race once again. Happy for Russell & McLaren, but what a catastrophic weekend for Vettel. Hope this isn't going to go like Alonsos last years with McLaren for him. 
Also, is it just me or did the cars really get closer together this year? I know the safety car also messes with that, but from the final results, I see very few lapped cars for each race, like all the cars that finish more or less finish within more or less 01:30 or 01:40 from the leader. Anyone who actually watched it, is that down to the safety car or the tracks or are they all a bit closer together now? Or am I wrong altogether?


----------



## Bodes

SD83 said:


> Judging from the highlights, seems to have been a somewhat entertaining race once again. Happy for Russell & McLaren, but what a catastrophic weekend for Vettel. Hope this isn't going to go like Alonsos last years with McLaren for him.
> Also, is it just me or did the cars really get closer together this year? I know the safety car also messes with that, but from the final results, I see very few lapped cars for each race, like all the cars that finish more or less finish within more or less 01:30 or 01:40 from the leader. Anyone who actually watched it, is that down to the safety car or the tracks or are they all a bit closer together now? Or am I wrong altogether?


Up the front was a snooze festival after 10 laps and after a few laps after the safety car. When it was realised that the RBs couldn't do squat against LeClerc, they cruised.
Russell seemed to be really good, but not much footage.
The mid pack was great! But, typically, not enough footage, other than the replays. Some really great, hard racing and attempted passing. Haven't seen that in years.
The safety car and VSCs definitely helped to keep most on the lead lap.


----------



## SD83

Anyone watching Monaco today? Haven't found a decent commentary yet, but starting on full wets might be an indicator for an interesting race. Or we get another Spa 2021. Not knowing how heavy the rain is, it's 50/50 I assume...


----------



## Vostre Roy

SD83 said:


> Anyone watching Monaco today? Haven't found a decent commentary yet, but starting on full wets might be an indicator for an interesting race. Or we get another Spa 2021. Not knowing how heavy the rain is, it's 50/50 I assume...


Was a long, but interesting given it was a Monaco Grand Prix. Seeing the too 4 crossing the finish line within 1 sec of each other was a great view


----------



## LostTheTone

Man, Ferrari really are determined to grab defeat from the jaws of victory this year aren't they?

I feel legitimately sorry for LeClerc today. Home GP, and one that he seemed almost destined to win after a couple of cursed attempts, and then the rain came down and his pit crew sharted.


----------



## r33per

Realised today that just about the only reason I'm watching the races in 2022 is as preparation for WTF1's Internet's Best Reacts.

Sad times.


----------



## LostTheTone

r33per said:


> Realised today that just about the only reason I'm watching the races in 2022 is as preparation for WTF1's Internet's Best Reacts.
> 
> Sad times.



Sad indeed, although WTF1 are good peoples who make fun content.

And, to be fair, the racing has actually been very good this year. I strongly suspect that Red Bull are going to cruise away with it from here, but it's been a season full of excitement thus far.


----------



## Mathemagician

Seb just showing up “on a rainbow bike” lmao.


----------



## LostTheTone

Mathemagician said:


> Seb just showing up “on a rainbow bike” lmao.



I have to love Seb's mad "I am still a child" energy.


----------



## Mathemagician

Yep, FIA President tries to tell drivers/teams they can’t exercise their freedoms - Seb does 100% the opposite.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Redbulls and Ferraris seems to be on a complete different planet after FP3, P5 being a wooping 1.25s behind the leader (and about 0.8s from P4). 

Looking forward for this race, Baku usually gives a great show


----------



## LostTheTone

Vostre Roy said:


> Redbulls and Ferraris seems to be on a complete different planet after FP3, P5 being a wooping 1.25s behind the leader (and about 0.8s from P4).
> 
> Looking forward for this race, Baku usually gives a great show



Yup yup, fully agree with all of this. Baku normally delivers, but FP1 had me worrying because it seemed Ferrari were being bitten by the porpoise and their engines were developing a nasty habit of coughing up a lung.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Well, the qualifying session pretty much followed the logic shown in the practice session, Ferrari and Redbull are about a second faster than every other teams, unless they suffer a DNF they should cover all four first positions without much threat from the other teams.


----------



## LostTheTone

Vostre Roy said:


> Well, the qualifying session pretty much followed the logic shown in the practice session, Ferrari and Redbull are about a second faster than every other teams, unless they suffer a DNF they should cover all four first positions without much threat from the other teams.



Was just about to say the same thing.

Looking further down the grid though I'm happy to see Gasly and Yuki putting in some solid performances. This year's Mercedes may not be the kind of rocketship it used to be, but it's pretty clearly third fastest this year and seeing Gasly split those two cars warms my heart. 

Further down still... Another oof for McLaren, with both cars out in Q2. Danny Ric is obviously having a bad year anyway, but when Norris can't ring anything else out of the car either it makes me wonder how much of that we can really blame on him.

Finally, I am pretty sad to see Haas and Alfa both falling right to the back. It was so nice see K-Mag and Bottas both doing well, and its crappy to see them back down with a woeful Aston with a woeful Stroll driving it.


----------



## BenjaminW

No words


----------



## Vostre Roy




----------



## SD83

If they fail to build a shitty car, they will ruin their chances with (in hindsight at least) wrong choices for strategy, and if they fail to do that, the cars will just break down...


----------



## LostTheTone

How quickly times change, eh?

I remember a couple of Max DNFs that led to people saying that Charles would walk away with the title. No reason why things can't swing back the other way. Think back to last year where Mercedes was taking engine penalties all over the shop and still very nearly pipped Max to the title.

Things can change back just as fast. Probably not by next week, but there's ample time for Ferrari to come back this season.

In the mean time, the salty memes sustain me.


----------



## StevenC

LostTheTone said:


> How quickly times change, eh?
> 
> I remember a couple of Max DNFs that led to people saying that Charles would walk away with the title. No reason why things can't swing back the other way. Think back to last year where Mercedes was taking engine penalties all over the shop and *would have won the title if it weren't for blatant manipulation.*
> 
> Things can change back just as fast. Probably not by next week, but there's ample time for Ferrari to come back this season.
> 
> In the mean time, the salty memes sustain me.


FTFY


----------



## LostTheTone

StevenC said:


> FTFY



The point was very much that Mercedes managed to pull back from a significant deficit entirely on their own merits, even when Lewis was taking 10 place penalties seemingly every race. Whatever you think about the last race (and who doesn't?) at different times in the season it seemed like either RB or Merc were going to walk away with it.

But, as I say, the salt sustains me. As a lover of Monsieur le Phoenix, Romain Grosjean, the only really pure joy in F1 for me is fans of the top teams acting so very hard done by.


----------



## Vostre Roy

LostTheTone said:


> But, as I say, the salt sustains me. As a lover of Monsieur le Phoenix, Romain Grosjean, the only really pure joy in F1 for me is fans of the top teams acting so very hard done by.


Speaking of Grosjean, he finished 4th today in the Indycar series at Road America race track (one of my favorite tracks all series combined). That's his second best finish this season as he was 2nd at Long Beach.


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Speaking of Grosjean, he finished 4th today in the Indycar series at Road America race track (one of my favorite tracks all series combined). That's his second best finish this season as he was 2nd at Long Beach.


Speaking of Grosjean, I still can't believe Ericsson won the 500.


----------



## LostTheTone

StevenC said:


> Speaking of Grosjean, I still can't believe Ericsson won the 500.



I think it was wise for Grosjean to go to a series where spectacularly smashing the car into a wall is an expected part of racing. I believe it was Chip Ganassi who said "If you aren't crashing, you aren't trying hard enough".

But yes, I was happy to see Ericsson win at Indy


----------



## LostTheTone

The big news this week - Piastri is coming to F1, taking over Nicholas Latifi's seat at Williams. A move that I can only describe as "it's about bloody time".

I don't want to hate on Latifi too much, because no-one in F1 is a bad driver by any means. But he hasn't impressed at Williams, and there's only so long that someone can stay as the second seat at a backmarker team, even as a pay driver. 

It's been a real problem for F1 that there's been so little space for top prospects to come in, at least Piastri is going to get a chance to sink or swim. Good for him, I hope does well.

An underreported aspect of this move is that Piastri will be on loan from Alpine, who are obviously keen to keep Alonso and Occon for a year or two more, but also want Piastri at some point. So they've done a swap that includes Williams switching to the Renault powerplant, at a very advantageous price and so partly offsetting the cost of losing Latifi's money.

Seems like a good move for everyone involved, honestly.


----------



## Bodes

LostTheTone said:


> The big news this week - Piastri is coming to F1, taking over Nicholas Latifi's seat at Williams. A move that I can only describe as "it's about bloody time".
> 
> I don't want to hate on Latifi too much, because no-one in F1 is a bad driver by any means. But he hasn't impressed at Williams, and there's only so long that someone can stay as the second seat at a backmarker team, even as a pay driver.
> 
> It's been a real problem for F1 that there's been so little space for top prospects to come in, at least Piastri is going to get a chance to sink or swim. Good for him, I hope does well.
> 
> An underreported aspect of this move is that Piastri will be on loan from Alpine, who are obviously keen to keep Alonso and Occon for a year or two more, but also want Piastri at some point. So they've done a swap that includes Williams switching to the Renault powerplant, at a very advantageous price and so partly offsetting the cost of losing Latifi's money.
> 
> Seems like a good move for everyone involved, honestly.



Only website I can find about this is one of those click-baity ones who I wouldn't trust to hold my empty beer can.

It will happen at some stage, how soon is a different question. Until I see an official release, nothing is happening just yet.

Agreed that Latifi has not impressed, he is no where near Albon this year. Can't compare him to Russell when they were team mates (just look at Russell v Ham atm).


----------



## LostTheTone

Bodes said:


> Only website I can find about this is one of those click-baity ones who I wouldn't trust to hold my empty beer can.
> 
> It will happen at some stage, how soon is a different question. Until I see an official release, nothing is happening just yet.
> 
> Agreed that Latifi has not impressed, he is no where near Albon this year. Can't compare him to Russell when they were team mates (just look at Russell v Ham atm).



As I understand it we are just waiting on an official announcement from Williams, which will come sometime this month. The official outlets tend not to touch anything until the teams have done their PR bit, but I don't think that The Race would be reporting it is a done deal if it wasn't going to happen. 

I agree that nothing is finally final until that official confirmation comes but I don't think that this is speculation. If nothing else I don't think that Williams and Alpine would let this kind of news swirl about if they weren't going to do it. Williams especially, since the rumour here is that they're going to toss out one of their drivers. They would have to deny that if only to keep Latifi's financial backers happy, and it clearly won't do much for team morale either.


----------



## Vostre Roy

From what I've seen online, it is still rumors at that point and I'd be very suprised if it would be officialised right before the Canadian GP, but I won't be surprised if a statement does comes out by the end of next week.

As a canadian, having two drivers from my country would sounds nice if only they weren't performing so poorly... I try to cut some slack to Stroll as he have been an F3 champ and I believe that jumping over F2 to go directly to F1 have nixed his development, I mean he did have some good flash with a decent car but he is absolutely non-consistent. As for Latifi, guy have won absolutely no championship in the lower class (just like a certain Mazepin) and never had the skills to drive in the top class.

Finally, the prospect of hearing "William-Renault" is just pure music to me given I was a huge Villeneuve fan back in the 90's. Can't believe they'd be as dominant as they were, but one can hope eh


----------



## LostTheTone

Vostre Roy said:


> From what I've seen online, it is still rumors at that point and I'd be very suprised if it would be officialised right before the Canadian GP, but I won't be surprised if a statement does comes out by the end of next week.
> 
> As a canadian, having two drivers from my country would sounds nice if only they weren't performing so poorly... I try to cut some slack to Stroll as he have been an F3 champ and I believe that jumping over F2 to go directly to F1 have nixed his development, I mean he did have some good flash with a decent car but he is absolutely non-consistent. As for Latifi, guy have won absolutely no championship in the lower class (just like a certain Mazepin) and never had the skills to drive in the top class.
> 
> Finally, the prospect of hearing "William-Renault" is just pure music to me given I was a huge Villeneuve fan back in the 90's. Can't believe they'd be as dominant as they were, but one can hope eh



You don't have to be a Canuk to be sad about Stroll and Latifi's abilities 

You're right though - Stroll is not great, but he has had flashes. That last season as Racing Point was enough to make me feel like he might have the chops after all. Perez was clearly better than him, but a pole and a couple of podiums for a young driver in a non-works car is definitely pretty frisky.

It's so hard to say whether he was boosted by the FI/RP car being better than expected, or he's being dragged down by the AM being trash. Sure, Seb is better than him (shock!) but he is also struggling too. Without that 6th at the last GP, there wouldn't be much between them.

Contrast to Latifi who is... Not great. And there isn't a lot more to say about that


----------



## StevenC

Lol no

Latifi brings more money than Piastri has talent


----------



## LostTheTone

StevenC said:


> Lol no
> 
> Latifi brings more money than Piastri has talent



But the Piastri deal is (supposedly) going to be structured like the old Russell-Mercedes deal - Alpine to pay Piastri's salary and provide engines to Williams for next to nothing.

Latifi brings some cash, sure, but does he inspire any confidence from Williams other non-personal sponsors? Importantly, do the new(ish) Williams owners think that pootling around with a pay driver and no ambition is going to make the team more profitable or successful in future? Dorilton Capital aren't a racing brand, they want to make Williams worth more than they paid for it and that's about it.

Latifi's whole career has so far led to seven points. Six came following the Bottas Bowling incident in Hungary, where 6 cars DNFed and Vettel got disqualified at the end. He then got his last point during the monsoon farce at Spa... But he qualified 12th and only started from 9th because three people had penalties. He has, quite literally, achieved nothing on merit. And does that make the sponsors with their names slapped on the side of his car happy?

Also remember that Piastri is not a no-one - Just about everyone brings cash with them. One reason why Albon races as a Thai driver is because that pleased some Thai sponsors. Piastri is an F2 champion, and is also an Aussie at a time when our much beloved Danny Ric seems to be falling back. 

Yes, the headline figure of sponsorship matters, but there is a lot more going on. And, bluntly, I think that in the near future there won't be any amount of sponsorship that can keep Latifi in an F1 seat, short of buying a team.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Lol no
> 
> Latifi brings more money than Piastri has talent



Then Latifi must bring a shit load of money given Piastri has been a Formula Renault, Formula 3 and Formula 2 champion the last 3 years that he actually raced.


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Then Latifi must bring a shit load of money given Piastri has been a Formula Renault, Formula 3 and Formula 2 champion the last 3 years that he actually raced.


They were happy for 2 years with billionaire+Russell. It's fair to say Albon is probably getting them less than Russell, so I don't see why they'd take another much larger financial hit. Especially mid season. Williams have been cheap for years, and they haven't changed with new ownership.


----------



## Vostre Roy

So, who else is stoked for today's race? That grid is just awesome


----------



## StevenC

Bahrain
Imola
Catalunya
Montreal

What do all of these things have in common? 

They all provided good races.

Jeddah
Albert Park
Miami
Monaco
Baku

What do all of these things have in common?

They're all street circuits.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Although I see the point of having the DRS to ease the overtakes, we don't see much proper "race craft" anymore. On one hand, less chance that some bloke will divebomb another car to force the overtake, but as fun as Montreal race was, it was always "wait for the DRS zone and hope you have a fast car" type of overtake.

But I get your point, given how big the F1 cars have becomes, there is virtually no places to overtake in street circuit. Monaco has became more and more boring (as if this was possible).


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Although I see the point of having the DRS to ease the overtakes, we don't see much proper "race craft" anymore. On one hand, less chance that some bloke will divebomb another car to force the overtake, but as fun as Montreal race was, it was always "wait for the DRS zone and hope you have a fast car" type of overtake.
> 
> But I get your point, given how big the F1 cars have becomes, there is virtually no places to overtake in street circuit. Monaco has became more and more boring (as if this was possible).


Monaco at least has an excuse in that it's a tiny circuit limited by water and people with rights' houses. Albert park is a bit improved, but the racing still isn't any better. 

Miami and Jeddah are brand new and hot garbage. Baku only has overtakes because it's got the longest flat out section. Jeddah is legitimately dangerous, both on and off track. Miami was built in a giant car park and they couldn't come up with any interesting corners.

Why build all of these new tracks in places that are never going to host any other sports if you aren't going to tailor them to the cars?


----------



## Vostre Roy

Agreed on all count, and I think that Monaco also has the excuse of being quite the historical track, plus its located in of the richest city, it still relevant.

Talking of Australia, there is so many great track over there (Mount Panorama, Philip Island being the two I knoe best personally), just pick one and be done with Albert Park.

And now they are talking about a street in Vegas... yay!


----------



## Bodes

Mount Panorama is too dangerous for F1 cars. When Buttton went around there, they had to raise the ride height quite a bit just to drive over the big dipper.

Similar story with Phillip Island in between turn 9 (Lukey Heights) and turn 10. Plus the pits are terrible and is a real bitch to get there. Not close enough to an emergency hospital by helicopter either.

Both those corners are the main overtakes in most racing. Although like was stated earlier, F1s don't overtake in corners much, they wait for the DRS zones.

Both those tracks are also a few hours drive from closest airports. Can't have precious rich guests have to travel that far. 

Then again, who doesn't want to see F1 drivers actually have to drive their cars?


----------



## Vostre Roy

Bodes said:


> Mount Panorama is too dangerous for F1 cars. When Buttton went around there, they had to raise the ride height quite a bit just to drive over the big dipper.
> 
> Similar story with Phillip Island in between turn 9 (Lukey Heights) and turn 10. Plus the pits are terrible and is a real bitch to get there. Not close enough to an emergency hospital by helicopter either.
> 
> Both those corners are the main overtakes in most racing. Although like was stated earlier, F1s don't overtake in corners much, they wait for the DRS zones.
> 
> Both those tracks are also a few hours drive from closest airports. Can't have precious rich guests have to travel that far.
> 
> Then again, who doesn't want to see F1 drivers actually have to drive their cars?



Yeah I was aware that they'd be some very good reasons why they can't race on Philip Island, and Mount Panorama is waaaaay to crazy for F1 (but so damn fun with GT3 and Super V8 series), but speaking of SV8 series, they race in a number of other tracks that I don't l know but I'm sure that there is one in the lot that could be used.

Anything but street circuit basically, I had at least some hope that Baku would gove a show this year and was left quite disapointed


----------



## Bodes

Vostre Roy said:


> Yeah I was aware that they'd be some very good reasons why they can't race on Philip Island, and Mount Panorama is waaaaay to crazy for F1 (but so damn fun with GT3 and Super V8 series), but speaking of SV8 series, they race in a number of other tracks that I don't l know but I'm sure that there is one in the lot that could be used.
> 
> Anything but street circuit basically, I had at least some hope that Baku would gove a show this year and was left quite disapointed


Too many of the Aussie tracks are not suited to F1. Pits too small, massive upgrades for safety, not long enough, etc.

Only one that is close to F1 standard would be Tailem Bend, which is about 40 min drive from Adelaide. They South Australian government tried to win back the F1s, but as announced this week, Melbourne won the right until 2035.


----------



## StevenC

I actually don't have a problem with Albert Park because, at least, it's a fun enough track to drive, it's in a park so has some geographical constraints, they fixed some of the crap corners, it's been around for 25 years, we have to have an Australian track, we've had Australian drivers in every season for at least the last 20 years and at plenty of other times before that too.

And it's a better circuit than Adelaide and I don't care what any of you say.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Best race of the season, with 12 laps to go and safety car out race just got event better

And that Zhou accident, worse since Grosjean's I'd argue


----------



## Vostre Roy

Yup, loved that race. Great show, and Zhou was back before the race was over, so no injuries


----------



## StevenC

I hate F1 sometimes. Stewards just don't care anymore and to top it off Ferrari fumble into gifting Carlos a win.

Carlos "probably the biggest racist on the grid" Sainz of all people. A sad day for the sport overall.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Stewards just don't care anymore



Are you referencing a particular incident? Can't say I've noticed something out of the current "norms"

As for Ferrari, no clue why they left Leclerc out with old hards. Sainz might be an idiot, be he drove well today. 

Perez also deserved his driver of the day, huge comeback


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> Are you referencing a particular incident? Can't say I've noticed something out of the current "norms"
> 
> As for Ferrari, no clue why they left Leclerc out with old hards. Sainz might be an idiot, be he drove well today.
> 
> Perez also deserved his driver of the day, huge comeback


Perez overtaking Leclerc by cutting the corner and forcing him off track, then forcing Hamilton off at the next breaking zone is a big one. But generally they just gave up on stewarding after saying forcing off as against the rules at the start of the year. It was a really messy race from most of the front runners and no one got a penalty. Max consistently running Mick off the road, too. 

Carlos was the last deserving today honestly. He was slowest and made mistakes. Ferrari were screwing Charles all race or he would have been well clear of Sainz. Without the safety car he would have been an embarrassing 3rd.


----------



## SD83

Since I've not been following pretty much anything outside of the racing itself, could someone elaborate what's the deal with Sainz and racism? 
As for the race... the end was wild, but if that was against the rules, you could as well make a rule against punching to the head in boxing. I get that it might not have been perfectly fair driving by everyone involved and it might have been a bit dangerous at times, but what's the point of being ahead of someone in a quicker car through luck or strategy if you can't block him by any means possible? F1 had for many years, at least that's the way I saw it, turned from exciting racing on memorable tracks with legendary drivers into a boring game of chess on wheels. No one was taking any risks (and the few drivers that did almost never stayed for long), and the best and often only chance you had for overtaking was with a better pit stop strategy. And just as my father, I pretty much turned my back to it and if I watched any racing, it was touring cars or rally. Because those had stuff happening on track. As impressive as those cars are from a technological point, as impressive as the driving skill displayed by pretty much everyone is, doing pretty much the same lap times over and over and over again, it's only been in the last few years that it got interesting again. And the last bit of the Silverstone GP was some of the most entertaining racing I saw in the last few years (although I still feel sorry for Leclerc, who should have won that, but I guess Ferrari just isn't overly interested in stuff like championships).


----------



## Mathemagician

Stuff like going 4 wide in the first lap is exciting. The whole race was really. But damn did Ferrari just…be Ferrari. Carlos won in spite of bad calls, but Leclerc could have been well ahead by the end.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Perez overtaking Leclerc by cutting the corner and forcing him off track, then forcing Hamilton off at the next breaking zone is a big one. But generally they just gave up on stewarding after saying forcing off as against the rules at the start of the year. It was a really messy race from most of the front runners and no one got a penalty. Max consistently running Mick off the road, too.
> 
> Carlos was the last deserving today honestly. He was slowest and made mistakes. Ferrari were screwing Charles all race or he would have been well clear of Sainz. Without the safety car he would have been an embarrassing 3rd.



I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I absolutely despise Verstappen's racing style. He's one of the fastest driver on the track, no doubt in my mind about that, but when it comes to overtake or, as seen last race when battling against Mick, defending his position, he sucks. Speaking of the latter, the way he was driving looked like he thought "I'd rather drive us both out than loose another position to a fucking Haas". He has matured a bit this year, but it really gets under my skin that they basically modified the rulebook to allow a car to drive the other off the track if "they haven't passed them at the Apex", which then can be interpreted in favor of a driver over another one depending on the situation. 

As for the Ferrari debacle, I can only think that the team wanted to score a maximum of point regardless of whom was winning and since Leclerc had sustained damage on the front wing, they decided to favor Sainz. Right now, 43pts between Verstappen and Leclerc, 63pts between Ferrari and Red Bull. I'd think that they are more confident that they can outscore Red Bulls than Leclerc outscoring Verstappen. 

With all said and done, it was still a great race, that battle for the top 5 was wonderful. Next up is the Red Bull Ring, love that one on my simulator games so I'm hopeful for another fun race.


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I absolutely despise Verstappen's racing style. He's one of the fastest driver on the track, no doubt in my mind about that, but when it comes to overtake or, as seen last race when battling against Mick, defending his position, he sucks. Speaking of the latter, the way he was driving looked like he thought "I'd rather drive us both out than loose another position to a fucking Haas". He has matured a bit this year, but it really gets under my skin that they basically modified the rulebook to allow a car to drive the other off the track if "they haven't passed them at the Apex", which then can be interpreted in favor of a driver over another one depending on the situation.
> 
> As for the Ferrari debacle, I can only think that the team wanted to score a maximum of point regardless of whom was winning and since Leclerc had sustained damage on the front wing, they decided to favor Sainz. Right now, 43pts between Verstappen and Leclerc, 63pts between Ferrari and Red Bull. I'd think that they are more confident that they can outscore Red Bulls than Leclerc outscoring Verstappen.
> 
> With all said and done, it was still a great race, that battle for the top 5 was wonderful. Next up is the Red Bull Ring, love that one on my simulator games so I'm hopeful for another fun race.


Verstappen just never had the time in lower formulae to develop racecraft. And instead of throwing the book at him they've made ifs and buts his whole career. This year they said no more at the start of the season, but have evidently given up. He's just a hothead who can brake late, but as we've seen with Daniel, that only works in a Red Bull. 

If Ferrari had just let Leclerc past earlier he could have built a gap which would have let him pit under the safety car, which would force Hamilton to pit, which would allow Sainz to pit. Then it's an easy 1-2. Everyone in F1 knows you need to build a gap for the chance of a late safety car.


----------



## StevenC

SD83 said:


> Since I've not been following pretty much anything outside of the racing itself, could someone elaborate what's the deal with Sainz and racism?


Carlos has a few things. First he has a weird, now deleted I think, video on his Instagram about being in a restaurant in Shanghai. He describes it as very "non-westernised", says he saw a cat, and then says he assumes the food they were served was the cat. 

Then there's the whole deal with his family being big supporters of Vox, a far right party in Spain. 

Then there was the blackface incident. It surfaced between race 1 and 2 in Austria 2020, he didn't kneel at the first race and he had a small part in the antiracism video. Then the next week the video was reedited to give him an extra line. 

He hasn't really ever apologised or commented on any of this stuff which, in my opinion, makes it seem like it's not a big deal to him.


----------



## StevenC

Not sure what the Albon penalty was for. No other Red Bull driver has gotten a penalty for that sort of defending.


----------



## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> Not sure what the Albon penalty was for. No other Red Bull driver has gotten a penalty for that sort of defending.



He's not driving in one of the three top team (Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferarri) so that's a big no-no.

Wanna also talk about the fact that the steward took so long to penalize Checo during the qualy? It basically denied Gasly a chance to run in Q3 should they had actually did their job in a timely matter.


----------



## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> He's not driving in one of the three top team (Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferarri) so that's a big no-no.
> 
> Wanna also talk about the fact that the steward took so long to penalize Checo during the qualy? It basically denied Gasly a chance to run in Q3 should they had actually did their job in a timely matter.


And it's not like Perez didn't have other laps deleted. He was only in danger because he kept going wide at 9 and 10. They denied a lap at every other corner pretty much, but they had to think about T8? Such a joke.


----------



## StevenC

Hearing lots of disturbing reports about sexist, homophobic and racist abuse at the Red Bull Ring this weekend. Cat calls, slurs, inappropriate touching, etc from a specific group of fans aimed at everyone else, even staff.

Utterly disgraceful.


----------



## BenjaminW

Are the track limit rules generally this strict or is the Red Bull Ring a particularly strict track regarding track limits? Never seen drivers get lap times deleted, warned, and shown the black/white flag like this.


----------



## StevenC

BenjaminW said:


> Are the track limit rules generally this strict or is the Red Bull Ring a particularly strict track regarding track limits? Never seen drivers get lap times deleted, warned, and shown the black/white flag like this.


It's sort of 3 fold this weekend. They said at the start of the year that track limits would be strict (and they generally have been, barring Silverstone), they're trying to make a point after last week, and yeah Österriechring is a historically track limits-y circuit.

You can gain time by going wide at pretty much every corner except T4 and T6, then you can cut T8 easily. They've been deleting lap times for T9 and T10 since the circuit came back, and adding kerbs at T1 and T3 to stop drivers getting a better exit off track. In addition, drivers have been getting penalties for defending on the inside of T4 for time immemorial.

There can be quite good racing here, but also it has a lot of penalties. Which oddly don't kill the racing.


----------



## StevenC

Sebastian is retiring and I am very sad.


----------



## SD83

StevenC said:


> Sebastian is retiring and I am very sad.


A bit, though I'm not suprised. When he moved to Aston Martin, I had hoped to see him there for a while as a bit of an experienced mentor that both the team and his teammate could profit from, but with the direction things are going, I can't blame anyone for leaving that team... I watched his retirement announcement, and can't help but think that he looks terribly tired.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

This race is gonna be spicy


----------



## StevenC

George Russell is the second best driver on the grid and its not even close


----------



## Mathemagician

StevenC said:


> George Russell is the second best driver on the grid and its not even close



Am I in the hot takes thread? ‘Cause I like it.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

Ferrari is dead set on throwing this season away. If Mercedes had that car they'd be 100 points ahead in both drivers' and constructors' by now.


----------



## StevenC

Lewis Hamilton is the best driver on the grid and it's not even close. If his DRS hadn't failed in qualifying he would have won that race.


----------



## Zhysick

The race was a scam.

I'm sad Seb is retiring.

I don't know what to think about Alonso moving to Aston Martin except he is fast for the money.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Dani Ricciardo's contract to be bought out at the end of the season.

Expecting to see Oscar taking his seat for next year given the Alpine events à couple of weeks ago


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

-Perez +Ricciardo, I wanna see some more intra-RB crash action


----------



## Vostre Roy

Audi officially annonced their entry into the 2026 season.

Also, Sauber and Alfa Romeo to part way


----------



## StevenC

At least Audi are investing into a smaller team to add competition in the sport.

I'm so angry at Porsche for cheaping out to buy into RBPT.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Piastry will drive for McLaren next year, filling Ricc seat


----------



## r33per

Vostre Roy said:


> Piastry will drive for McLaren next year, filling Ricc seat


I'm shocked, I tell you - shocked!!!!


----------



## StevenC

My hypothesis is that Daniel curses seats. No one has been able to make that second Red Bull go fast since 2018, Alonso has had bad luck since his return, and now the McLaren seat is already a mess.


----------



## Zhysick

I don't know if Ricc is cursed or not, but I know he is a good driver and it is a shame he is not feeling it on the McLaren as he has donde in ither cars. Hopefully with the next car he will be able to squeeze his jui... Ok, I won't finish that.

Alonso has never been lucky after Ferrari. Bad decisions switching teams but still manages to show how capable he is and all teams and drivers respect him (except a big amount of spanish aficionados because they think that only winning is being good, if you are second you are trash )


----------



## StevenC

As we know, Daniel and Max are about the same from their time at Red Bull; Lando is clearly vastly superior to Daniel based on the last two years; George is clearly better than Lando from his F2 dominance; and Lewis has been better than George all year. Therefore last year Max needed a wildly dominant car and FIA intervention to win the championship.



Zhysick said:


> I don't know if Ricc is cursed or not, but I know he is a good driver and it is a shame he is not feeling it on the McLaren as he has donde in ither cars. Hopefully with the next car he will be able to squeeze his jui... Ok, I won't finish that.
> 
> Alonso has never been lucky after Ferrari. Bad decisions switching teams but still manages to show how capable he is and all teams and drivers respect him (except a big amount of spanish aficionados because they think that only winning is being good, if you are second you are trash )


Those Spanish aficionados have a tough time between being angry at Fernando for not winning, and being angry at Lewis for winning more than Fernando.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

Russell needs to shut his yap and drive. Big "my father will hear about this" energy that's really starting to get old considering he hasn't actually accomplished anything yet. At least when Lewis whines he wins races.


----------



## StevenC

Verstappen International Assistance


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## Zhysick

Verstappen got lucky today with the safety car BUT he would have won anyway, he was waaaaaaaay faster than HAM or RUS, we saw it on how VER passed by RUS without any problem. This is the kind of superiority that made me stop watching F1 a few years ago when HAM's mercedes was unstoppable... this year is definitely VER's RB. Even in circuits where the RB is not supposed to be superior he still is the fastest car in the track.

I was expecting more from the change of rules... well, as usual, I get excited for nothing


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## StevenC

Zhysick said:


> Verstappen got lucky today with the safety car BUT he would have won anyway, he was waaaaaaaay faster than HAM or RUS, we saw it on how VER passed by RUS without any problem. This is the kind of superiority that made me stop watching F1 a few years ago when HAM's mercedes was unstoppable... this year is definitely VER's RB. Even in circuits where the RB is not supposed to be superior he still is the fastest car in the track.
> 
> I was expecting more from the change of rules... well, as usual, I get excited for nothing


Nah, Ham had the pace, he was faster all the time on comparable tyres, except the first stint he was behind Sainz. If the race ran as normal M** had to overtake both of them again. If either safety car came out at an appropriate time instead of waiting a lap for him to get to the pits it would have been over for him.

Like Italy 2019, race director wanted to leave the track alive.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

StevenC said:


> Nah, Ham had the pace, he was faster all the time on comparable tyres, except the first stint he was behind Sainz. If the race ran as normal M** had to overtake both of them again. If either safety car came out at an appropriate time instead of waiting a lap for him to get to the pits it would have been over for him.
> 
> Like Italy 2019, race director wanted to leave the track alive.


You and I somehow watched a very different race


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## r33per

Best Comedy Performance In A Grand Prix goes to Carlos Sainz and Ferrari


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## StevenC

r33per said:


> Best Comedy Performance In A Grand Prix goes to Carlos Sainz and Ferrari


WHY DID HE STOP IF HE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AN UNSAFE RELEASE????


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## r33per

StevenC said:


> WHY DID HE STOP IF HE DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AN UNSAFE RELEASE????


Dude: it's just safe driving. Highway Code and all that.

When making progress from a stationary position, look left, right and left again. If there is an Apline coming towards you, slow to a stop and impede their progress.


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## StevenC

r33per said:


> Dude: it's just safe driving. Highway Code and all that.
> 
> When making progress from a stationary position, look left, right and left again. If there is an Apline coming towards you, slow to a stop and impede their progress.


Ah, see the 2022 Highway Code updates haven't been applied to Northern Ireland yet.


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## Bodes

Some really unfotunate timing for a number of drivers with the safety cars.
Could/should Lewis have won? Maybe. His non-tyre selection which George (ingeniusly) took killed his chance of winning.
Would Max have won if Lewis changed to softs? Maybe, but Lewis looked bloody good prior to the safety cars.

Main question is: WTH was Alpha Tauri thinking in sending Tsunoda out again? Or was this a brilliant way to get Max the win? [/ inter-team conspiracy] 
Reading the article on the F1 website, they say they are 'investigating' the issue. Surely if they thought the tyre was not fitted properly, they had to determine that was the issue before sending him back out?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

Bodes said:


> Main question is: WTH was Alpha Tauri thinking in sending Tsunoda out again? Or was this a brilliant way to get Max the win? [/ inter-team conspiracy]
> Reading the article on the F1 website, they say they are 'investigating' the issue. Surely if they thought the tyre was not fitted properly, they had to determine that was the issue before sending him back out?


I mean, they did change the tires when he came back in. But he'll almost certainly get a hefty penalty for driving back with his seatbelts undone.


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## StevenC

Bodes said:


> Some really unfotunate timing for a number of drivers with the safety cars.
> Could/should Lewis have won? Maybe. His non-tyre selection which George (ingeniusly) took killed his chance of winning.
> Would Max have won if Lewis changed to softs? Maybe, but Lewis looked bloody good prior to the safety cars.
> 
> Main question is: WTH was Alpha Tauri thinking in sending Tsunoda out again? Or was this a brilliant way to get Max the win? [/ inter-team conspiracy]
> Reading the article on the F1 website, they say they are 'investigating' the issue. Surely if they thought the tyre was not fitted properly, they had to determine that was the issue before sending him back out?


It seeeeeeeems that Tsunoda was right that something was wrong with the car the first time. He thought the wheel, incorrectly, then suspension and the team said the data said no. He stopped on his own decision, then the team said he shouldn't stop. In a post race interview he said he didn't take off his belts but the team did tighten them. In the second stop they changed to softs and checked our redid his seatbelts. After that he rejoined the race and the earlier issue he felt appeared in the data and AT told him to stop this time.

This was the last information I saw.


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## Vostre Roy

So De Vries, a reserve driver who is doing is first ever F1 qualification in replacement for Albon, made it to Q2 while Latifi, a regular driver, couldn't with virtually the same car.

Seriously, get Latifi the fuck out of his car. This guy is a waste of seat space and is a shame for his country. 

Can't say that Stroll did much better to represent his country but the Astons seems to be way out of pace given that Vettel barely did better.


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## BenjaminW

Is this what it felt like for Lewis fans during Abu Dhabi last year?


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

Vostre Roy said:


> So De Vries, a reserve driver who is doing is first ever F1 qualification in replacement for Albon, made it to Q2 while Latifi, a regular driver, couldn't with virtually the same car.
> 
> Seriously, get Latifi the fuck out of his car. This guy is a waste of seat space and is a shame for his country.
> 
> Can't say that Stroll did much better to represent his country but the Astons seems to be way out of pace given that Vettel barely did better.


I was ambivalent towards Latifi until this weekend but yeah, De Vries really put the stomp on him in a last-minute debut after years of experience from the Canadian. Probably time to move him on.


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## r33per

BenjaminW said:


> Is this what it felt like for Lewis fans during Abu Dhabi last year?


No. Nowhere near.


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## Zhysick

I had a hard time deciding if De Vries or Sainz should be driver of the day, both did awesome, but probably De Vries is the right one because is a debut and that is amazing. This is not the first time Sainz finishes a race winning 10+ positions so... Yeah. I'm good with that.

What I don't like is the dominion of Verstappen+RB that seems to be in the making. I don't want another 3 or 4 years of only one car winning the same way that Vettel did before or Hamilton more recently.

Ferrari is stepping back, Mercedes coming up front and RB creating a gap. It doesn't matter if is the fastest the Saturday or not, sunday is going to be the fastest yes or yes.

I don't like this .


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## Vostre Roy

In the least surprising new of the F1 year, Latifi wont be back next year with Williams (and hopefully with no one else).

Good riddance


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## Zhysick

Shocked!


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## Mathemagician

Zhysick said:


> I had a hard time deciding if De Vries or Sainz should be driver of the day, both did awesome, but probably De Vries is the right one because is a debut and that is amazing. This is not the first time Sainz finishes a race winning 10+ positions so... Yeah. I'm good with that.
> 
> What I don't like is the dominion of Verstappen+RB that seems to be in the making. I don't want another 3 or 4 years of only one car winning the same way that Vettel did before or Hamilton more recently.
> 
> Ferrari is stepping back, Mercedes coming up front and RB creating a gap. It doesn't matter if is the fastest the Saturday or not, sunday is going to be the fastest yes or yes.
> 
> I don't like this .



I’ve come to accept that in a series that doesn’t do spec machinery this is just a normal part of the process.

The cost cap will help, as potentially new entrants to the field. But this is racing on unequal footing.

Ideally we’ll have 3 top competitors. But right now RB has the fastest car and the fastest driver. That’s a winning combo, as you you examples just showed.


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## StevenC

Vostre Roy said:


> So De Vries, a reserve driver who is doing is first ever F1 qualification in replacement for Albon, made it to Q2 while Latifi, a regular driver, couldn't with virtually the same car.
> 
> Seriously, get Latifi the fuck out of his car. This guy is a waste of seat space and is a shame for his country.
> 
> Can't say that Stroll did much better to represent his country but the Astons seems to be way out of pace given that Vettel barely did better.


Williams messed up and Latifi didn't get to set a second fast time in Q1, though he seemed to have comparable pace. He shouldn't be in F1 on merit, but qualifying wasn't a good example of this.


BenjaminW said:


> Is this what it felt like for Lewis fans during Abu Dhabi last year?


No. This race ending was handled properly. If anything the SC should have been brought out earlier, but this has been a problem all year. A red flag wasn't justified and the fastest car one the race.


Mathemagician said:


> I’ve come to accept that in a series that doesn’t do spec machinery this is just a normal part of the process.
> 
> The cost cap will help, as potentially new entrants to the field. But this is racing on unequal footing.
> 
> Ideally we’ll have 3 top competitors. But right now RB has the fastest car and the fastest driver. That’s a winning combo, as you you examples just showed.


The problem with the cost cap is that it limits other teams ability to close the gap.

Sure before we had Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull way out in front with smaller teams way behind. But the field is about as spread today as at the start of the season except for Mercedes and McLaren figuring out their cars; the backmarkers still aren't bringing updates; the BoP budget adjustments are too small to change anything and the teams that benefit the most don't have that money anyway; teams can't fix issues mid season; etc.

Red Bull now has enough of an advantage that it doesn't matter what anyone else does, they're going to be ahead next year. The FIA/FOM has once again made a stupid formula that they haven't thought through.


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## StevenC

I'm absolutely stunned that a massive bribe to Michael Masi counts against the budget cap.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

do u ever wake up 5 am

and race is delay 1hr

i cri evertim


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## Vostre Roy

StevenC said:


> I'm absolutely stunned that a massive bribe to Michael Masi counts against the budget cap.


Really interested in seeing the report that will come out by next week I think? Lots of rumors so far with cap exceedance ranging from 5mils to 10mils on Red Bull side and under the "critical" cap for Aston Martin. Going after last year's result would be so late that it would be laughable (which raise the question as of why it took so long for them to analyze it) but they should get some penalties for this year or a significant decrease on their budget allowance on the next one. Whatever they decide to do, if those rumors turns out to be true, will just add another asterisk to Verstappen last year's title for sure.

Couldn't watch today's race (as usual, being at work) but it seems that it would have been hard to have a better show on an urban track. Once again though Leclerc felt short of capitalizing on his pole position and if he could had kept it close to Perez, he might had got the win given the impending (as I'm writing this) penalty for driving too close to the Safety Car or something along those lines, correct me if I'm wrong here. Decent race also for both McLarens and AMR who managed to bring both car to the end with decent points along.

Suzuka's next, love that track but usually the racing hours makes it really hard to watch and I don't expect it to be any different this year lol


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## DSBzwo




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## StevenC

I am absolutely furious at the FIA for a) allowing a fucking tractor on to a live circuit i) in Suzuka ii) in the wet and b) having the audacity to call Pierre to the stewards to address him driving past a fucking tractor on a live circuit, then c) putting out their hitpiece through Sky to blame Pierre.

Another weekend of incompetence, but holy shit this one was another level.


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## DSBzwo

I hate to defend them but....
They HAD to call Pierre in, he was MASSIVELEY to fast during double Yellow and/or Red Flag conditions.
250 km/h there is just no reason for him to drive so fast. You saw the Mashall also trying to show him "slow down dude" but obviously he couldn see him...

Its almost the same as it was with Jules back in 2014


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

The whole thing reeks of what shitty lawyers and pundits do in America, where they know they f*cked up massively so they pre-emptively throw the book at the person who pointed it out. Then the "investigation" can reveal that the whistleblower was bad all along. That tractor should not have been out whether Pierre was going 20mph or 2 million. And to the point about "what about people on track? Pierre was a danger to them" I'd say the exact same logic applies, i.e. they should stay the heck off the track until the cars are in.

Aside from the controversy and the whimper the title died by this year, what an incredible drive from everyone who finished. I have never been so impressed with the driving from the front to the back of the field. So much racing and overtaking without anyone hitting another car or the barrier despite splashing through rivers and puddles all the way to the end. Class act.


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## Zhysick

Max winning the title was a matter of time, this race or the next, FIA just make it happen sooner.

The race was beautiful but boring in the sense that, at least where I saw it (DAZN), the cameras seemed to be looking to the wrong place all the time. 

Vettel was the real winner today.


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## StevenC

Fuck


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## DSBzwo

Holy shit man, that race was EPIC! 

Sainz again unlucky, Max again unbeatable, Alonso indestructible und Vettel unstoppable! MAN there are SO many storys to tell after that....


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## Zhysick

I just can't believe how Leclerc did it to finish up there, how Alonso's car survived that crash and finished in the points. Max, as said, unbeatable but Sainz is really unlucky... This hurts specially after seeing Leclerc's result, Sainz would have been fighting to win... wth! maybe next year...


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## SD83

Magnussen on pole  if only for the sprint race, and by a good deal of luck, but still. First AND last in qualifying, wonder if any team has ever done that...


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## Bodes

How great was his conversation with the team in the lead up and after the red flag being waived!?! 

Congratulations KMag! Always good to see a new pole sitter.

Ferrari.... ummm... wth?!? Are they deliberately trying to stuff themselves over? Have they placed bets against them doing well??? Doofuses.


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## Zhysick

Yeah, wheather made everything a bit special/strange and anything could happen BUT waiting there in the pitlane was MAG first, sure, an advantage, but then it was Sainz (I'm not counting Leclerc for obvious reasons) and then MAX or was Perez? Whatever, two RB. So, with a minimal difference between the position of MAG and MAX he still got the pole. As Max said after the qualy, he commimted a mistake and MAG didn't. He pushed harder than others and no mistakes. Well deserved pole if you ask me. There was only one try and he was the only one that did it.

I also see that MAG lap on Q2 was 1:11:410 and his lap on Q3 was only 0.2s slower... I think this is amazing.

But yeah, first lap and he will be 4th or so hehe


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## Zhysick

What a FFFFFFing DOUCHE is Verstappen.

Amazing race by Russel, congratulations to him and to Lewis for an amazing recovery (even though I think it was not Verstappen fault, no one should have been penalised).

From my part also amazing race by Fernando and by Carlos. The two spanish guys today did all they could and more. 

Great race, all of it. I'm sorry for Magnussen and Ricciardo's mistake but well, that wasn't the biggest thing to happen during this amazing race.

A good race for once!!


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## Metaldestroyerdennis

The tyre change that has resulted in more 2+ stop races has done infinitely more for race excitement than the regs change


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