# Truss rod adjustment, fret buzz and RG2228 problems



## neurosis (Jul 9, 2014)

(to the mods: If you feel this should be a continuation of my topic on string gauges please let me know and I will move this into a post over there)

A few months back I got a RG2228. I have been trying different adjustments and gauges for a while and nothing felt good. The strings where getting thicker and thicker (I went from the factory default through both sets of daddarios and the DR titefits) and I was still having fret buzz. 

Now I have three sets of Circle Ks to try:

8-13-17-23-31-43-57-76

8-13-17-24-33-45-61-82

9-14-17-23-31-43-59-79

I put the first set on and I LOVE IT. 8 to 76 seems really nicely balanced to me, but ohhhhhh well, I still have a party of buzz on my neck.

I did measure and adjust everything according to the manual in the Prestige case. But I will not get rid of the buzz and I am starting to think that there might be a typo or something and I adjusted the truss rod the wrong side.

I have basically done the following and there are pictures to illustrate it all, so you guys can give feedback if you wish.

I have approximately 2.5 mm of distance between the neck and the lowest string when holding down fret one and the last fret. Around frets 10 to 12 the distance is slightly different. Strings 6 thru 8 have buzz with 7 and 8 being particularly problematic.

On the high end of the board I have basically no distance between strings and fretboard. With the sharp e sitting straight on the frets when pressing down fret 1 and the last fret. For this procedure I didn´t mention earlier I am using a wrap around capo. 

Now, the bridge is flat and I moved the truss rod by a quarter turn to increase the center distance and get an outward bow. I wanted to create more space specially for the lower strings to vibrate freely without hitting the frets and thus get rid of the buzz.

I have no clue of what to try anymore. My wish is to keep this set and adjust the guitar accordingly. But if I have to throw in a slightly bigger gauge I guess I could live with it, even though I don´t really want to.

Here are the pics:

Can someone tell me what direction of the turn makes the neck go one side or the other? I am confused by this. Somebody that has worked on the RG2228, can you tell me what direction of a turn affects the neck how?







The following are the low string side view pics of the higher and lower frets closer to the capo and closer to the body respectively:

closer to capo:






closer to body:






And here are the high side strings...

Closer to capo:






Closer to body:







So I wonder. From what you guys see here, do you feel like I should try to raise the strings? With the fx edge III there is no way of adjusting the height independently or leaving the bridge inclined. Also, the fretboard is curved to coincide with the slight curvature of the bridge.

I tried having a higher action but I could not get rid of the buzz. So I am a bit confused what it is I need to do at this point.

Anyway, 


Thank you all in advance for the help.


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## vick1000 (Jul 9, 2014)

The truss rod only effects fom the 12th out to the 1st. To get proper truss adjustment, make sure you are tuned up, then you should fret the 1st (capo is good for that), and the 12th, and have just enough clearance between them to tap the 2nd and 11th (just a hair of clearance really). 

When making truss adjustments, let the guitar sit overnight, and come back to check. You also want to loosen the strings a lot for any negative adjustment (bringing the 6th fret closer to the strings, a.k.a. less relief). Once you get the relief set right for the 1st to the 12th, you raise or lower the bridge to eliminate buzz for the 13th and up.

Then set your intonation.


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## neurosis (Jul 9, 2014)

vick1000 said:


> The truss rod only effects fom the 12th out to the 1st. To get proper truss adjustment, make sure you are tuned up, then you should fret the 1st (capo is good for that), and the 12th, and have just enough clearance between them to tap the 2nd and 11th (just a hair of clearance really).
> 
> When making truss adjustments, let the guitar sit overnight, and come back to check. You also want to loosen the strings a lot for any negative adjustment (bringing the 6th fret closer to the strings, a.k.a. less relief). Once you get the relief set right for the 1st to the 12th, you raise or lower the bridge to eliminate buzz for the 13th and up.
> 
> Then set your intonation.



Nice! I will wait for tomorrow then. Do I let it sit through the night with loose strings? Or did you mean to loosen the strings like I did: while adjusting the truss rod. 

THANKS!


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## GreatWhiteYeti (Jul 10, 2014)

The guy who set up my 2228 put the bridge at an angle with the lowest strings being the higher, and the higher string side of the bridge closer to the body (if that makes sense?). As soon as he did that the thing played like a dream. I hope that helps.


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

GreatWhiteYeti said:


> The guy who set up my 2228 put the bridge at an angle with the lowest strings being the higher, and the higher string side of the bridge closer to the body (if that makes sense?). As soon as he did that the thing played like a dream. I hope that helps.



Can you possibly post or send me a pic (even a shitty phone pic will do)? Do you know if he made any changes to the bridge I haven´t commented here? In the manual it says all strings are affected equally when the bridge is raised or lowered. And the fretboard has a curvature similar to the bridge so I wonder how, with the middle screw in-between you guys setup the exterior bridge screws to align the bridge.

Thanks for the input, man! I need to look into this after the truss rod adjustment has settled in tomorrow.


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## Erockomania (Jul 10, 2014)

The screws on either side of the bridge will allow you to raise or lower each side independently if you have the bridge I think you do.


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## chopeth (Jul 10, 2014)

neurosis said:


> Can you possibly post or send me a pic (even a shitty phone pic will do)? Do you know if he made any changes to the bridge I haven´t commented here? In the manual it says all strings are affected equally when the bridge is raised or lowered. And the fretboard has a curvature similar to the bridge so I wonder how, with the middle screw in-between you guys setup the exterior bridge screws to align the bridge.
> 
> Thanks for the input, man! I need to look into this after the truss rod adjustment has settled in tomorrow.



I don't think you'll have problems understanding this, I hope it helps:


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## GreatWhiteYeti (Jul 10, 2014)

No problem bro. When I get some coffee's into me I'll take some pictures. He didn't do anything special really other a typical set up and intonation. It made the F# and B strings a little higher than usual, but I actually prefer it now. I can bash the hell out of the F# and I never hear a rattle.

Edit: I didn't see the picture Erockomania posted. It's spot on though. I believe he just raised the heaviest side more than the lighter side, like the bridge/tail piece on a LP.


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

Erockomania said:


> The screws on either side of the bridge will allow you to raise or lower each side independently if you have the bridge I think you do.



So if I raise one side more than the other the middle screw that holds the bridge won´t suffer? After all the horror stories I´ve heard about the screw ripping out I wanted to ask that before I go ahead and change it. 

If I can just change that it´s exactly the way I adjust my Paula.


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

GreatWhiteYeti said:


> Edit: I didn't see the picture Erockomania posted. It's spot on though. I believe he just raised the heaviest side more than the lighter side, like the bridge/tail piece on a LP.



Exactly my thoughts! 

Just for reference, since you have the same guitar whenever you got time I´d like to see a pic. Thanks for the attention, man!


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

chopeth said:


> I don't think you'll have problems understanding this, I hope it helps:



Gracias Chopeth! Eres el mismo de guitarristas.info, no?


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## GreatWhiteYeti (Jul 10, 2014)

Yeah dude, you want to be careful with that screw. I don't want to recommend you do something and then hurt that beautiful guitar you have. I would hate myself! I would describe it as a slight difference in height from one side to the other. Sent you a PM with the pictures.


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## jwade (Jul 10, 2014)

neurosis said:


>


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## chopeth (Jul 10, 2014)

neurosis said:


> Gracias Chopeth! Eres el mismo de guitarristas.info, no?


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

chopeth said:


>



Saludos!


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## neurosis (Jul 10, 2014)

GreatWhiteYeti said:


> Yeah dude, you want to be careful with that screw. I don't want to recommend you do something and then hurt that beautiful guitar you have. I would hate myself! I would describe it as a slight difference in height from one side to the other. Sent you a PM with the pictures.



THANKS a ton! I will look how the relief from the truss rod looks tomorrow and decide if I have to put the action higher. If I do that I might try to keep that 2mm difference you have on yours. That should work. No worries man. I am doing this on my own responsibility. I am also not a Wurst-hand... hahahah. It´ll be sorted without problems. These guitars are sensitive but not fragile unless you do something really wrong. I have always figured out how to set up my gear. 

Thank you so much for your input! And the pics! It really helps!


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## neurosis (Jul 11, 2014)

chopeth said:


> I don't think you'll have problems understanding this, I hope it helps:



I think you might just have saved my ass on this one Chopeth. 

I turned the key right yesterday so according to the advice from you guys here I was tightening the truss rod which means I was making it more convex or flat, when what I needed was neck relief and therefore a more concave shape. 

So let me get this right: If you tighten (turn key right or clockwise) the truss rod the neck pulls away from the strings into a more convex shape which in last instance makes the strings hit the frets. But if you losen (turn left or counterclockwise) the truss rod then you are creating more space between the middle frets and the strings which is what I wanted.


Did I understand this? I know it seems easy but following the manual that part was worded strangely or I just failed at English for the only thing in the whole book that I could have needed.


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## neurosis (Jul 11, 2014)

jwade said:


>



So right turn tightens and makes the neck more flat or even convex with more resistance to the strings while left looses the neck and creates more relief between string and frets?

Thanks!


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## chopeth (Jul 11, 2014)

neurosis said:


> I think you might just have saved my ass on this one Chopeth.
> 
> I turned the key right yesterday so according to the advice from you guys here I was tightening the truss rod which means I was making it more convex or flat, when what I needed was neck relief and therefore a more concave shape.
> 
> ...



I'm happy to help


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## vick1000 (Jul 11, 2014)

neurosis said:


> So right turn tightens and makes the neck more flat or even convex with more resistance to the strings while left looses the neck and creates more relief between string and frets?
> 
> Thanks!



There is no "flat" persay, since that depends on the current relief setting, and which way the "bow" would need to move to make it flat.

This is how it works. Counter clockwise makes the action between the 1st and 12th frets higher, and reduces fret buzz accordingly when fretting from the 1st to the 10th. Clockwise lower the action in the same area.

Idealy, you only want a very slight relief, where you could just slide a thin peice of paper under the 2nd and 11th frets, when the 1st and 12th are fretted simulataniously. Of course not all fretboard are equal, some are not as flat, and require more relief to eliminate buzz. This guys lays it out pretty much on target. The only thing I disagree with, is every guitar I have set up does not react higher than the 12th fret to a truss rod adjustment. This because of the fulcrum point of where the neck meets the body. Unless you had an extremely soft neck material, maybe a one piece mahogany on an acoustic, or a extra long scale with extra frets, it only effects 12th toward the nut.


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## thrashmetal85 (Jul 11, 2014)

I'd say most of your issues are more likely to be uneven fret heights. Just because this is a prestige instrument doesn't mean that a proper fret dress has been done to eliminate high and low spots in the frets.


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## Given To Fly (Jul 11, 2014)

thrashmetal85 said:


> I'd say most of your issues are more likely to be uneven fret heights. Just because this is a prestige instrument doesn't mean that a proper fret dress has been done to eliminate high and low spots in the frets.



This is crucial for low action to sustain for days with no buzz while being effortless to play. Also, alway remember: "righty tighty, lefty lousy." Its useful in every aspect in life.


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## neurosis (Jul 12, 2014)

thrashmetal85 said:


> I'd say most of your issues are more likely to be uneven fret heights. Just because this is a prestige instrument doesn't mean that a proper fret dress has been done to eliminate high and low spots in the frets.




I just checked with a ruler and the curvature of both frets and fretboard is perfectly balanced. However, there is no space between strings and frets performing the neck test we are discussing. The neck stays flat no matter what I do. But I raised the action slightly and now only the eight string buzzes. 

I am going to make another adjustment and leave it another night to see how strings and neck like each other. If the buzz persists I might beef up the sevensth and eight string.


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## neurosis (Jul 12, 2014)

Given To Fly said:


> This is crucial for low action to sustain for days with no buzz while being effortless to play. Also, alway remember: "righty tighty, lefty lousy." Its useful in every aspect in life.



Good! Will remember this


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## thrashmetal85 (Jul 13, 2014)

Here's some tips from Meshuggah's guitar repairman. On a 2228 as well 

So what&#8217;s in a &#8216;Fret Dress&#8217; ? | AVH Guitar Repair

The thing is a ruler is all well and good for an overall check, but you need a small straight edge to check the individual frets. A credit card is an OK tool to do this with if you don't want to fork over for a fret rocker. I'm yet to take the plunge myself


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## mniel8195 (Jul 13, 2014)

Its difficult when you really don't know the accuracy of your frets. I have come to the conclusion that neck relief is not a huge deal if you have perfect frets. I have two guitars with plek ss jumbo frets. one from suhr and one from mike lull. I can set both neck straight and i will get the same amount of buzz that i would with relief with low action. I much prefer a straight neck with a little bit higher action. When your frets are dead even the rattle is going to come more from how high your strings are off the fret board. I find i need the highest action and most relief with large strings. If i am playing in standard apposed to drop c or even lower i can get away with lower action and a straighter neck because the strings just move differently. you can go for a happy medium but i think its more important to think about whether you like a straighter neck with more consistent action across the fingerboard or really low action. I happen to think the guitar sounds better with a bit higher action.


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## vick1000 (Jul 13, 2014)

mniel8195 said:


> Its difficult when you really don't know the accuracy of your frets. I have come to the conclusion that neck relief is not a huge deal if you have perfect frets. I have two guitars with plek ss jumbo frets. one from suhr and one from mike lull. I can set both neck straight and i will get the same amount of buzz that i would with relief with low action. I much prefer a straight neck with a little bit higher action. When your frets are dead even the rattle is going to come more from how high your strings are off the fret board. I find i need the highest action and most relief with large strings. If i am playing in standard apposed to drop c or even lower i can get away with lower action and a straighter neck because the strings just move differently. you can go for a happy medium but i think its more important to think about whether you like a straighter neck with more consistent action across the fingerboard or really low action. I happen to think the guitar sounds better with a bit higher action.



The relief also reflect the need to allow the string to vibrate, where more space is needed in the middle portion of the length of sting that is struck.

A completely flat fretboard would hurt sustain, and require higher bridge height to compensate.


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## mniel8195 (Jul 13, 2014)

vick1000 said:


> The relief also reflect the need to allow the string to vibrate, where more space is needed in the middle portion of the length of sting that is struck.
> 
> A completely flat fretboard would hurt sustain, and require higher bridge height to compensate.



I realize that. I feel like as long as your notes are not dying out or chocking than its not a problem. Also if you don't hear it through the amp than its all good. you can set extreme relief and still get buzzing when playing hard its just how the guitar is. Your hitting metal strings with a pick and the strings are above the frets by such a small amount its inevitable. I think setting it by feel is a great way of doing it. I also judge the height of the strings by if i am getting buzzing on the 12th fret and below. Usually 2-1.55 on the low string and 1.5-1mm on the high strings. And when i say straight im talking .06" relief apposed to 10-12 which is fender spec. I feel like anything under about 1.5 mm the acoustic sound of the instrument is diminished that's my opinion. This is my experience with the most dead on frets you can imagine.


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## neurosis (Jul 13, 2014)

thrashmetal85 said:


> Here's some tips from Meshuggah's guitar repairman. On a 2228 as well
> 
> So whats in a Fret Dress ? | AVH Guitar Repair
> 
> The thing is a ruler is all well and good for an overall check, but you need a small straight edge to check the individual frets. A credit card is an OK tool to do this with if you don't want to fork over for a fret rocker. I'm yet to take the plunge myself



Oh man. Thanks for this. I was actually thinking if it´d be a good idea to send him a PM. I read a post of his while looking for info on my bridge, where he said he was going to make a video demo on how he adjusts it. But I guess if he hash´t made the video it´s because he is busy as hell.


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## neurosis (Jul 13, 2014)

mniel8195 said:


> I realize that. I feel like as long as your notes are not dying out or chocking than its not a problem. Also if you don't hear it through the amp than its all good. you can set extreme relief and still get buzzing when playing hard its just how the guitar is. Your hitting metal strings with a pick and the strings are above the frets by such a small amount its inevitable. I think setting it by feel is a great way of doing it. I also judge the height of the strings by if i am getting buzzing on the 12th fret and below. Usually 2-1.55 on the low string and 1.5-1mm on the high strings. And when i say straight im talking .06" relief apposed to 10-12 which is fender spec. I feel like anything under about 1.5 mm the acoustic sound of the instrument is diminished that's my opinion. This is my experience with the most dead on frets you can imagine.



I just got an email from my former guitar professor telling me exactly this!


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