# My Blackmachine "Inspired" Guitar By Guitar Fusion Customs



## AeonSolus

at last! i've been waiting for almost a year to post this thread! 

My friend francis at Guitar Fusion is finally putting together the materials for what it will be my two customs! Hopefully a 6 string and an 8. Without further due i present to you the Genesis!  or well.. the 2" Hard Ash Body plank, that will be cut at the middle to become two guitars, and it will be taken to the 32mm thickness of the blackmachine with the top.












Final Specs Are:

6 String NotABlackmachine:

-Petrucci-Profiled Walnut Neck, Reverse Blackmachine-ish Headstock, 
-25.5" Brazillian Rosewood 24 fret fretboard
-Extra Jumbo Frets
-Hard Ash body with zebrawood top
-Black Binding
-1 Volume, 1 Tone, And a Three way toggle all black. Also Push pulls on both pots for coil splitting, and a mini toggle to choose which coil you want (North, south)
-Direct mounted GFS FAT PAF pickup set w/black chrome pickup covers (until i can affort BKPs)
- black Sperzel Tuners 
-Gotoh top loading bridge w/ Graphtech Black TUSQ string saver saddles
-Graphtech Nut
- Real Wood, sculpted Ebony Knobs
-End Pin Jack

And for the StillNotABlackmachine 8

-Petrucci-Profiled Walnut Neck, Reverse Blackmachine-ish Headstock
-28.625" Palo Maria 24 fret fretboard (I also thought about hard maple but not sure yet.)
-Extra Jumbo Frets
-Hard Ash body w/ mahogany top, with Carbon Fiber baked onto it.
-White Binding
-1 volume push pull for pickup toggling
-Direct mounted Vintage Vibe 8 string pickup (Maybe a second one in the neck for the future, depends on what i use the guitar for as time passes.)
- black mini groover tuners
-Agile 8 string bridge w/ Graphtech Saddles.
-Single black barrel knob
-End Pin Jack

May the wait begin


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## JonnHatch

I cant wait to see your Notablackmachine 6 and Stillnotablackmachine 8


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## Kayzer

Nice i hope your Guitars come out as expected! Your specs sound really nice!


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## AeonSolus

Kayzer said:


> Nice i hope your Guitars come out as expected! Your specs sound really nice!



Oh they will  I have blind faith on Francis, he's the best Artisan level Luthier i know around here  and thanks


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## Apophis

sounds interesting  update asap


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## Fred

Seriously looking forward to these!


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## durangokid

sounds interesting,but it might sound really bright,brazilian rosewood is bright as hell,but those pickups must be really fat,the name says it all xD


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## AeonSolus

durangokid said:


> sounds interesting,but it might sound really bright,brazilian rosewood is bright as hell,but those pickups must be really fat,the name says it all xD



That the idea man  i prefer having an instrument whose properties is to be Naturally bright so that i have to tame the brightness down with somewhat dark pickups, than upping the Mids and highs on my amp  helps the definition i guess


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## ToniS

Can't wait to see the final product, how long should it take for him to build one?


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## hairychris

Sounds interesting!


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## 777

So i take it youre having these made for about 1000 less than the price of 1 Blackmachine

Theyre waaaayyy overpriced imo......


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## AeonSolus

tongarr said:


> Can't wait to see the final product, how long should it take for him to build one?



From half a month to two months 



> So i take it youre having these made for about 1000 less than the price of 1 Blackmachine
> 
> Theyre waaaayyy overpriced imo......



Yep  let's say i can buy a Schecter C7 for what i'm paying for _*both *_guitars


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## XEN

Do you have a link to their website?


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## Fred the Shred

Man, the names of your guitars alone are already a sign of the glory to come!


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## AeonSolus

urklvt said:


> Do you have a link to their website?




Whose site? blackmachine's or my friend's?

Francis just has a blog where he posts all the Refinish/Building/Repair job he does, kinda like a portfolio

guitarfusion.tk if you're interested


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## XEN

AeonSolus said:


> Whose site? blackmachine's or my friend's?
> 
> Francis just has a blog where he posts all the Refinish/Building/Repair job he does, kinda like a portfolio
> 
> guitarfusion.tk if you're interested


Thanks! I'll check that out.


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## AeonSolus

For those who haven't seen the mockups, here they are 






I think i'm using Maple for the 8's fretboard


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## BrainArt

Sweet! Those mockups are nice.


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## possumkiller

How is he planning on doing the ebony top over the forearm cutaway?


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## darren

Well, it's starting out about 2x as thick as a Blackmachine, so it's not *quite* the same.


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## Cheesebuiscut

darren said:


> Well, it's starting out about 2x as thick as a Blackmachine, so it's not *quite* the same.





AeonSolus said:


> the 2" Hard Ash Body plank, that will be cut at the middle to become two guitars, and it will be taken to the 32mm thickness of the blackmachine with the top.


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## willyman101

AeonSolus said:


>



No pickup selector and one volume knob for a two pickup'd guitar?


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## caughtinamosh

willyman101 said:


> No pickup selector and one volume knob for a two pickup'd guitar?


 
One volume knob is perfectly possible on a dual-humbucker guitars... 

The lack of selector switch is probably just a small omission on the mockup. I'm sure that it'll be there on the final product.


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## willyman101

caughtinamosh said:


> One volume knob is perfectly possible on a dual-humbucker guitars...



I know that, I have guitar with 3 pickups and 1 volume knob


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## TimSE

pushpull pot maybe


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## Dusty201087

TimSE said:


> pushpull pot maybe



Most Caparison Horus's have two pups and just one volume knob set up like Tim said. Push it in, you're running the bridge pup, pull and you're running the neck. Disadvantage is you can't run both, but it streamlines the electronics.


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## caughtinamosh

Dusty201087 said:


> Disadvantage is you can't run both.


 
I've never liked the sound of both pickups at once, so this sounds like a great setup for me.


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## TemjinStrife

I like push/push better. It makes for faster switches, although you can't always tell which pickup is on by looking at it.


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## AeonSolus

Yep, you guys got it right . Push-pull selection, i got the idea from Mathias IA Eklundh's Applehorn


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## Brewtal_Damage

I'll be following this, as I may order a custom in the future from Francis


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## AeonSolus

Brewtal_Damage said:


> I'll be following this, as I may order a custom in the future from Francis



I foresee a busy year for Francis  There's another fellow ss.org as well cooking a Guitar Fusion Custom as we speak.


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## hairychris

Still, it woulds be good if you could alter the headstock a bit.

100% copy is _completely_ uncool. Trademark and so forth. As, actually, is the body shape...


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## caughtinamosh

hairychris said:


> Still, it woulds be good if you could alter the headstock a bit.
> 
> 100% copy is _completely_ uncool. Trademark and so forth. As, actually, is the body shape...


 
Is the shape not a rather generic one, also employed by the likes of Ibanez and Jackson?

I shall refrain from posting my thoughts on headstock replication for the moment...


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## technomancer

hairychris said:


> Still, it woulds be good if you could alter the headstock a bit.
> 
> 100% copy is _completely_ uncool. Trademark and so forth. As, actually, is the body shape...



Has Doug actually filed a trademark? While I think copying other people's designs like the headstock is uncool, I also get REALLY sick of people blathering about trademarks that have never actually filed for one. You could use the same design for 20 years, and if you haven't filed the paperwork and don't then actively find and defend every infringement, you don't have a trademark. It might work differently in the UK, but that's how trademark law works in the US anyways.


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## TemjinStrife

It's an RG body that happens to be super thin. Woohoo. I would pick a different headstock design myself since I don't like the Blackmachine one, and I don't like the idea of direct copies.

But Steve hit it on the head; it's not trademarked unless he has applied for it to be trademarked.


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## Justin Bailey

depending on how these come out I may have to contact this guy for some work. cant wait to see these!


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## AeonSolus

I really wanted to make something of my own creation, but wood get router'd and shit happens, so i HAD to do it  for what is worth i'm getting custom plates mades that read "Not a blackmachine, made in Dominican Republic "


EDIT: Also guys check the specs, apart from the headstock shape, nothing blackmachine uses by default, right?  i did not intend to copy doug or anything like that. I know it's uncool to copy others designs i feel the same way about it, and very ashamed, but i also think that even if i put a "blackmachine" chromed plate in it and bareknuckles i'll never be a blackmachine, because Doug didn't make it. Doug *IS* blackmachine, not his headstocks or bodyshapes


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## ToniS

Btw, did the luthier make those mockups or you?


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## 7 Strings of Hate

personally, if you can get a guitar made to look and be excatly like you want, but your not "supposed to" is a silly reason not to. People rip off ibanez all the time, verbatim, but for some reason thats ok.


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## Swippity Swappity

I don't see a problem with something being made to look exactly the same as long as it isn't being marketed exactly the same, especially when it is something that is hard as hell to get. If Doug was pushing out enough for everybody who wanted one, this could be kinda wrong, but he doesn't.

Can't wait to see how these come out.


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## 777

hairychris said:


> Still, it woulds be good if you could alter the headstock a bit.
> 
> 100% copy is _completely_ uncool. Trademark and so forth. As, actually, is the body shape...



Dude get over it to be honest, most superstrats look the same, and i mean the BM headstock looks like a reversed parker fly 

if everyone was that anal about it jackson would be suing ibanez and fender suing esp/jackson/ibanez/you for the body shape

if he wants it to look the same but with a different logo let him, its not like hes telling people its a BM


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## leandroab

AeonSolus said:


> I really wanted to make something of my own creation, but wood get router'd and shit happens, so i HAD to do it  for what is worth i'm getting custom plates mades that read "Not a blackmachine, made in Dominican Republic "



Oh god please do it...

This would be awesome! 

I had a similar idea. Any body shape with Ibanez headstocks (because I love the shape) and putting a decal with the same Ibanez "check style" and font, but saying "MIbanez" (My + Ibanez) instead


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## yellowv

Caparison uses a push/push pot. Works very well.


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## AeonSolus

UPDATE: Electronics are Here!!!!! 

I'm at work as we speak, but when i get home (if i get home sober that is ) I'll upload the pictures, All i can say is that the Black chrome covers of the pickups are just SEXUAL


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## ToniS

Piiiiics


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## AeonSolus

Oh wow, sorry, I've been in the sidewalk for the past few days  that drinking night was WILD!   

Onto the picture!







In the picture:

-End pin jack
-Sperzel Tuners
-GFS Pickups (LOVE THE CHROMED COVERS!!!... Black chrome anyone?  they look kinda janked because of the plastic protective film, so don't worry  )
-Gotoh Top-loading bridge
-Body made out of OwnageWood
-Francis' Workshop
-Three Ninjas


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## Customisbetter

Looking good.


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## canuck brian

777 said:


> if everyone was that anal about it jackson would be suing ibanez and fender suing esp/jackson/ibanez/you for the body shape



Or Jackson suing ESP for copying their headstock...man that would be hilarious. Oh wait, that actually happened.


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## bulb

or gibson suing prs over their single cut haha


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## MF_Kitten

...or fender suing gibson over their new hendrix strat copies. i hope they do.


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## AeonSolus

Mini-Update:

Just to let you guys know, our Wood Supplier is having walnut shortage  Good news is, that the neck now will be built out of a solid rosewood neck blank , and the fretboard, instead of brazillian rosewood, will be first grade madagascar ebony , What do you guys think? should i stick with this combination? or just wait until there's walnut available and go for the Walnut neck/Brazilian rosewood fretboard combo?


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## Apophis

sounds cool, post pics asap


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## Fred the Shred

^ this.


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## hairychris

I'd if not kill, then at least mildly main, for a good solid BRW necked guitar!


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## Justin Bailey

how can I get in contact with the guy thats building these?


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## Elysian

You know those aren't Sperzels right?


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## AeonSolus

Yeah man, they're Sperzel-Style tuners, i'd be using those until the actual Sperzel arrive 

EDIT: By the way, for those who want to contact francis, here it is

Website: http://www.guitarfusion.tk - His portfolio, with some of his builds, refinishes, and mod jobs
Emails: [email protected],tk & [email protected]

If you want to contact him, but can't reach him somehow, you can just talk thru' me


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## Sang-Drax

Luis, do you know if he speaks English? I'm interested in building a PRS'esque 6-stringer, but I can't speak Spanish. I could simply use google translator as the transition from Portuguese to Spanish should be accurate enough, but I don't fully trust it, and the prepositions are different enough from one language to the other that I would not know if it's correct or not.

And how do his prices fare? One should expect that a luthier in Domenican Republic should be less expensive than those in US or Europe, but, since Brazilian luthiers are so damn expensive for some reason, I wouldn't know if that would be precise.


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## Justin Bailey

a prs style guitar is what I'm after too.


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## AeonSolus

As i answered this over IM i think i can answer it here too! 

Yeah, he speaks english, but in any case of unavailability, you can contact him thru' me  Now His price fair is on the Crazy low side..As i don't want to say prices out (as different woods, body shapes, configurations can change the final price) But all i can say, i'm having these two built for around the price of a Shecter C7 with a blackout upgrade, and that price idea includes all the hardware


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## matttttYCE

AeonSolus said:


> As i answered this over IM i think i can answer it here too!
> 
> Yeah, he speaks english, but in any case of unavailability, you can contact him thru' me  Now His price fair is on the Crazy low side..As i don't want to say prices out (as different woods, body shapes, configurations can change the final price) But all i can say, i'm having these two built for around the price of a Shecter C7 with a blackout upgrade, and that price idea includes all the hardware



Two custom guitars for the price of one production guitar?
PURE FUCKING WIN!


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## AeonSolus

UPDATE!: Rosewood neck blank and madagascar ebony fretboard are here!!!! 












one thing though, i did order something else, ivoroid, and the kind people at lmii commited an honest mistake, they also included some free special glue for the ivoroid binding  kudos to you guys , BUT in the USA, custom held my ivoroid, neckblank and fretboard for almost a month, because the ivoroid and the glue were inflamable, that's why i didn't post any update for like..two months  Anyway! things were settled and the ivoroid is being sent as we speak, despite is illegal to send this kind of product overseas! I FOOLED THE SYSTEM  

Coming up next!: Ivoroid and zebrawood top!!, then BUILDING PICSTORY TIME!!!


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## MFB

More importantly : why the FUCK are there teeth molds in the background of the last pic. What exactly do you do in your spare time?


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## AeonSolus

i didn't see that until now! 

My friend's father is a dental technician down here, and francis was helping him do some molds when the stuff arrived, so as soon as it arrived, he just threw them on a flat surface and gave it a photoshoot ...which happens to be the table besides the one they were working on


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## Sang-Drax

Looking good so far! Too bad Francis won't return my e-mails 

Btw, Luis, you asked me about Pedrone's prices in some other thread, but I don't know if you got my reply... did you?


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## AeonSolus

Oh yeah man, i forgot to thank you  i think the price is fair for handmade boutique amps  ima get one in the following.....years !

He's not returning your mails? well, ima check with the domain redirection company, i think they took down his mail at dot.tk, but anyway, you can always speak through me  send away your idea and i'll tell him right away, OR for more easiness, add me to MSN!


EDIT: 

I re-setup the mail redirection with dot-tk but anyway, here's the mails again 

[email protected]
[email protected]


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## Sang-Drax

^ He did reply me once... but then he asked something regarding the neck joint of my project or something like that, then I shooted him 2 e-mails and nothing.

Not that I'm in any kind of hurry, mind you


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## Justin Bailey

yeah he never returned my emails either I'll have to try again. Can't wait to see these beasts finished by the way!!


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## AeonSolus

must have been some technical problums  but anyway, you both send me your updated specs in a PM and i'll give to him rightaway


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## Apophis

wood looks really nice, can't wait to see everything glued together


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## Sang-Drax

I shot him another e-mail just now. Let's see if it works this time


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## Wi77iam

@teeth molds, anyway how is this build coming along?


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## Rocco Ruthless

Wi77iam said:


> @teeth molds, anyway how is this build coming along?



x2. I'm really curious.


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## 777

Rocco Ruthless said:


> x2. I'm really curious.



x3


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## AeonSolus

As i said before, the binding and glue was being held by US's customs because of the fact that the glue was inflamable and toxic...But that has been worked out already  i got the binding at my friend's house. We're just waiting on the quilted maple top (yes i changed to quilted maple, because as much originality zebrawood puts out, it gets boring overtime.) So until then there's nothing to do but wait  it should be here this week


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## Sang-Drax

I'm looking forward to seeing it finished


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## TheFranMan

Sang-Drax said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing it finished



As am I. Sounds like a great concept. Can't wait to see the finalized products!


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## AeonSolus

Tiny but vital update ,

The Ash body has been bandsaw'd to the proper thickness and the Maple top aswell (Yes, if i haven't said it before, i changed zebrawood for figured maple, because as unique as the zebrawood is, it gets boring overtime.)

The maple's figure is indeed a quilt of sorts, but it kinda disappointed me to see that the quilt was kind of a Flame/quilted hybrid, as in, that the quilt isn't as pronounced as others, it's tiny and tight like flamed maple, it's going to look good nonetheless. I've choosen a ChrisLetchfordBurst for the top, but a bit lighter.


If you don't remember Chris' Sherman, here it is.






Also, what you guys think about matching headstock caps? i know blackmachine matches their headstock to the fretboard, but..how would it look with a maple cap in your opinion?


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## Justin Bailey

maple cap would look awesome, but with the colors on that burst I think it'd look awesome with an ebony veneer!


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## AeonSolus

Justin Bailey said:


> maple cap would look awesome, but with the colors on that burst I think it'd look awesome with an ebony veneer!



Thing is, that the fretboard was cut to the exact size to be used, so there's no more ebony left to use  so my options are to leave the headstock without a cap ( that way the rosewood will show), or take some maple and make a cap for the headstock


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## technomancer

Have the headstock match the body


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## Justin Bailey

AeonSolus said:


> Thing is, that the fretboard was cut to the exact size to be used, so there's no more ebony left to use  so my options are to leave the headstock without a cap ( that way the rosewood will show), or take some maple and make a cap for the headstock



maple cap it is!


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## Sang-Drax

So... any news on this one, huh?


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## AeonSolus

Some belated news, and outdated aswell 

Here's the still unsanded Curly maple top and bandsaw'd to correct depth body, ready to receive some eternal maple-top'd sex 











As of now, the top has been glued to the top and prepared to admit some hardware..loooovee, also the neck is being carved down to the desired shape (JP6 Petrucci profile)

ALSO, i MIGHT be getting some Four-channel'd, chrome-front-panel'd wonder sometime soon around this guitar's arrival


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## Sang-Drax

Will the top be glossy or satin?


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## AeonSolus

Sang-Drax said:


> Will the top be glossy or satin?



I'm thinking satin to stay true to the blackmachine aesthetics, and i think gloss lacquer would choke the sound out of the guitar


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## jbcrazy

AeonSolus said:


> I'm thinking satin to stay true to the blackmachine aesthetics, and i think gloss lacquer would choke the sound out of the guitar


 
Couldn't agree more. Looks fantastic so far. You need a statin finish!!!!


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## MaKo´s Tethan

and more progress...how many years left?


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## Ironberry

MaKo´s Tethan;1918724 said:


> and more progress...how many years left?


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## AeonSolus

Lets say santa struck me all at once with some pictures 




















My boner is starting to hurt already! Cant wait!!!


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## AySay

Looks like its going to be AMAZING!!!!!!


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## Prydogga

Are you having BM style recessed straplocks?


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## AeonSolus

Prydogga said:


> Are you having BM style recessed straplocks?



As far as i know BM only uses one on the top horn? because of the end pin output jack thing, right?


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## Sebastian

Good to see progress pictures


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## Justin Bailey

looking awesome, man!


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## lctdmf

AeonSolus said:


> As far as i know BM only uses one on the top horn? because of the end pin output jack thing, right?



Nope, if you go in to Bulbs Blackmachine b6 NGD you can see the recessed strap button on the butt, a couple inches up from the end pin jack.


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## AeonSolus

i just remembered! i've been searching everywhere but i can't find them  anyone can help me on that?


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## Justin Bailey

AeonSolus said:


> i just remembered! i've been searching everywhere but i can't find them  anyone can help me on that?



Strap Lock Systems and Strap Buttons

Dunlop Straplock Black Flush Mount, Musical Instruments, Guitars, Other at Underbid.com


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## lctdmf

Here is the image I was talking about, the black thing is the recessed strap lock, and the chrome thing is the end pin jack.


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## poxxxy

Amazing looking stuff, I wish I could find someone who could do this for me. Every luthier I know around here charges 1500GBP for they're customs!


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## george galatis

good spec! that gonna sounds hellish


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## 777

poxxxy said:


> Every luthier I know around here charges 1500GBP for *they're* customs!



GRAMMAR POLICE


"Their"


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## mattofvengeance

Any progress? My severe Blackmachine B8 GAS beckons for more!


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## schecterc1lh

Bump, anything as for an update?


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## AeonSolus

pacience people! the 6er is done already persey, but we had some trouble with the trusrod, because StewMac sent a dud one and the adjustment wheel broke while he was giving the last adjustment so i could take it home, we're getting a new one to see if the neck is not screwed enough to be firewood content, otherwise we'll just make one anew!


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## AeonSolus

Just to keep the thread alive, i'll tease a bit  the guitar is finished, but i need to get more money for the trip up there


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## Justin Bailey

cant wait to see it!


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## K-Roll

congratulations  i am starting to get a feeling that the total building time at your luthier equals the total waiting time for an original BM.. why are those two things still not completely finished!? wait.. not just finished, but these were like supposed to be already beaten up from being molested on stage and so..


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## AeonSolus

K-Roll said:


> congratulations  i am starting to get a feeling that the total building time at your luthier equals the total waiting time for an original BM.. why are those two things still not completely finished!? wait.. not just finished, but these were like supposed to be already beaten up from being molested on stage and so..


 
The guitar has been done for like three months now, but thanks to Lmii and grizzly it has gotten back'd up. Grizzly with the Trusrod being rotten and and the binding being shipped with the wrong glue, which tainted it , but it's done already  im picking it up this weekend!


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## Black_tear

Post pics as soon as you can.Waiting to see that beauty.


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## Justin Bailey

is the eight done also?


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## AeonSolus

Justin Bailey said:


> is the eight done also?



I decided against it for the time being, because as cool as it would be to have an 8 string, it's not cost effective or a smart move in this part of my financial existence :/ although, in it's place, francis is going to make me a PRS Clone


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## Matt-Hatchett

Blackmachine Headstock =


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## Guamskyy

If this luthier can build me a lefty rg2228 for the same price you quoted I just my cry


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## Justin Bailey

AeonSolus said:


> I decided against it for the time being, because as cool as it would be to have an 8 string, it's not cost effective or a smart move in this part of my financial existence :/ although, in it's place, francis is going to make me a PRS Clone



thats still badass, thats what I'd like to do. 

What about those fully composites he was thinking about?


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## AeonSolus

Justin Bailey said:


> thats still badass, thats what I'd like to do.
> 
> What about those fully composites he was thinking about?



He needs someone to finance it to experiment right now  buying a premium quality yard of material is around 62 dollars/yard, and he needs lots of it for prototyping and such. but yeah, it's is still in the to-come plans


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## Justin Bailey

ah I understand, the composite stuff has me really excited, if he ever gets to it and he wants someone to collaborate on original designs, lemme know


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## AeonSolus

I haven't been to active on this forum lately, but just logged in to tell you guys that she is currently sitting on my lap  i'll do a proper review of it and a High Res photoshoot when my photographer friend gets back from cuba, which is by the end of next week.


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## Customisbetter

AeonSolus said:


> I haven't been to active on this forum lately, but just logged in to tell you guys that she is currently sitting on my lap  i'll do a proper review of it and a High Res photoshoot when my photographer friend gets back from cuba, which is by the end of next week.



Mother. Fucker.

PICS NOW!!!!


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## Philligan

Customisbetter said:


> Mother. Fucker.
> 
> PICS NOW!!!!





A week and a half is a long time haha. May I suggest taking a few pictures yourself? I need my daily intake of guitar pr0n.


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## AstonAston

That headstock looks sweet! Moar pickchuers!


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## 7 Strings of Hate

pictures ya son of a bitch bastard!!


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## AeonSolus

I promised myself i wouldn't give you guys bad pictures after all you waited , but i can show you the guitar almost done with the top soaked in oil for displaying purposes


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## Black_tear

it's getting there man!


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## AeonSolus

Black_tear said:


> it's getting there man!



it's done already, haha, i'm just teasing


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## darren

Are those right-handed tuners on a reverse headstock?


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## Nialzzz

It seems a brilliant way to undercut Doug. Although the body is that of a superstrat/RG, the headstock is a blatant rip of a very well known IP. 

Don't get me wrong, if I was in the states and unable to get hold of a BM without INSANE costs, I would definitely jump at it.

It just gives me "the fear" that I'm going to turn up to a gig and someone is sporting a blackmachine, and claiming that it's so. When it's in fact a brilliant copy. It's a small insult to the guys out there that have trumped the money for a legit guitar and a huge insult to Doug (who, until very recently) has always maintained the integrity of his whole "concept" by being a one man luthier army!!

I'm flaming out of jealousy if I'm honest. Totally stoked for you dude!

Just be honest when you are hit with the question "Is that... A FUCKING BLACKMACHINE DUDE?"


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## Dan

Nialzzz said:


> It seems a brilliant way to undercut Doug. Although the body is that of a superstrat/RG, the headstock is a blatant rip of a very well known IP.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if I was in the states and unable to get hold of a BM without INSANE costs, I would definitely jump at it.
> 
> It just gives me "the fear" that I'm going to turn up to a gig and someone is sporting a blackmachine, and claiming that it's so. When it's in fact a brilliant copy. It's a small insult to the guys out there that have trumped the money for a legit guitar and a huge insult to Doug (who, until very recently) has always maintained the integrity of his whole "concept" by being a one man luthier army!!
> 
> Just be honest when you are hit with the question "Is that... A FUCKING BLACKMACHINE DUDE?"




While i agree with you in one respect scores of people are waiting for and probably will never get a blackmachine as Doug is 'a one man luthier'. There are millions of Ibanez copies out there so why cant someone get something done in the style they want if they cant get the real deal? 

I have no problem with copies as long as they are SHOWN to be copies like you said. It looks like a beautiful instrument and there has obviously been a lot of work put into it. congratulations


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## AeonSolus

darren said:


> Are those right-handed tuners on a reverse headstock?



Sadly, yeah.



> lzzz It seems a brilliant way to undercut Doug. Although the body is that of a superstrat/RG, the headstock is a blatant rip of a very well known IP.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if I was in the states and unable to get hold of a BM without INSANE costs, I would definitely jump at it.
> 
> It just gives me "the fear" that I'm going to turn up to a gig and someone is sporting a blackmachine, and claiming that it's so. When it's in fact a brilliant copy. It's a small insult to the guys out there that have trumped the money for a legit guitar and a huge insult to Doug (who, until very recently) has always maintained the integrity of his whole "concept" by being a one man luthier army!!
> 
> I'm flaming out of jealousy if I'm honest. Totally stoked for you dude!
> 
> Just be honest when you are hit with the question "Is that... A FUCKING BLACKMACHINE DUDE?"



Yeah man, accessibility was the first reason for me to do this. I loved the blackmachine aesthetics and concept ever since i saw Pin from sikth play one around '05-'06, but because i live in a third World country where the economy is: Real Blackmachine: Decent second hand car, sometimes brand new, it was a nobrainer for me. And don't worry, i never intented to tell people that what it took me and francis almost two years to put together and is maybe his masterpiece is a real blackmachine , it can stand up against a real one, yeah (played a b6 sometime ago, so i have basis to say this.) but calling it a blackmachine would be severely insulting Doug and Francis' work, and as a gearwhore i couldn't live with it


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## Demiurge

Nialzzz said:


> the headstock is a blatant rip of a very well known IP.








I can see what you're getting at, but I think what's distinctive about BM guitars is the ostensibly-high-quality combination of certain features that have been done elsewhere.


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## scherzo1928

Demiurge said:


> I can see what you're getting at, but I think what's distinctive about BM guitars is the ostensibly-high-quality combination of certain features that have been done elsewhere.


 
you sir, have made a great point.


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## TCOH5246

I've always liked the way Blackmachines looked, and I lust for one everytime I see one. This build right here looks straight up righteous! Can't wait to see it!


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## Daemon

Seriously, amazing job, very sexy guitar !
Congrats =)


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## Prydogga

A BM is essentially a variation on an RG body with a Parker style headstock, so what's wrong with copying the BM style? Awesome guitar dude, I don't see anything wrong with a guitar that is similar to another builder's. :


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## Sang-Drax

Prydogga said:


> A BM is essentially a variation on an RG body with a Parker style headstock, so what's wrong with copying the BM style? Awesome guitar dude, I don't see anything wrong with a guitar that is similar to another builder's. :



Specially considering Luis's plan of putting a label written "Not a Blackmachine. Made in Dominican Republic".


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## 7 Strings of Hate

thats looking great man!


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## Customisbetter

darren said:


> Are those right-handed tuners on a reverse headstock?



Looks like it to me.  Maybe they were just for mockup...


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## schecterc1lh

Wow, looks fantastic man! How does it play? And sound?


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## Guamskyy

EDIT: OP explained the situation!


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## AeonSolus

Sang-Drax said:


> Specially considering Luis's plan of putting a label written "Not a Blackmachine. Made in Dominican Republic".



I'm thinking about dropping that aswell, because as funny and cool it looks, i don't think doug would find it funny that someone is mocking his way of badging his guitars.


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## Marty Siggery

I find this an interesting thread. I've been getting a lot of emails over the last couple of years from people asking me to copy Blackmachine's. It's interesting in respect of how acceptable it seems to be to copy them so closely. I've been copying 'tele', les paul, PRS and the usually standard stuff for years but have always said no to copying Blackmachine. My 7 and 8 string guitars are reletavily close in that I have a reverse headstock that is extremely close to 'Parker Fly's and I have RG style bodies, Jackson Soloist style bodies but I'm not sure where to draw the line on how close you get to another makers stuff? Maybe someone could advise me?


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## UnderTheSign

Marty Siggery said:


> I find this an interesting thread. I've been getting a lot of emails over the last couple of years from people asking me to copy Blackmachine's. It's interesting in respect of how acceptable it seems to be to copy them so closely. I've been copying 'tele', les paul, PRS and the usually standard stuff for years but have always said no to copying Blackmachine. My 7 and 8 string guitars are reletavily close in that I have a reverse headstock that is extremely close to 'Parker Fly's and I have RG style bodies, Jackson Soloist style bodies but I'm not sure where to draw the line on how close you get to another makers stuff? Maybe someone could advise me?


As close as you feel comfortable doing. Blatantly copying other small builders' stuff won't get you liked by their following, but in the end it's all up to you. As long as there's no copyright on a certain shape, I *assume* you can do whatever you want with it.


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## AeonSolus

I copied it mainly because i love blackmachine's aesthetic and concept, but could never justify paying an absurd amount of euros in my current economic situation, so i had it done, It's not like francis is introducing it as a regular model in his line, or will do it this close anymore to anyone because of how much he respects doug, it was more of a challenge and a friendship pact between me and him. so yeah, at the end of the day it comes to your own decision


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## Marty Siggery

Thanks for the input. The whole copying thing has always confused me. Gibson take PRS to court over single cutaway's guitars yet they bring out a Hendrix signature Strat? Jackson take ESP to court over a Headstock, yet they make Strats with Fender style headstocks? (Adrian Smith Signature Model) Go figure!!
I appreciate the advice. Thanks


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## Marty Siggery

AeonSolus said:


> I copied it mainly because i love blackmachine's aesthetic and concept, but could never justify paying an absurd amount of euros in my current economic situation, so i had it done, It's not like francis is introducing it as a regular model in his line, or will do it this close anymore to anyone because of how much he respects doug, it was more of a challenge and a friendship pact between me and him. so yeah, at the end of the day it comes to your own decision



Makes total sense and I don't think is a problem at all


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## UnderTheSign

Marty Siggery said:


> Thanks for the input. The whole copying thing has always confused me. Gibson take PRS to court over single cutaway's guitars yet they bring out a Hendrix signature Strat? Jackson take ESP to court over a Headstock, yet they make Strats with Fender style headstocks? (Adrian Smith Signature Model) Go figure!!
> I appreciate the advice. Thanks


If I'm correct, Strats and Tele shapes have become availble to use. Something to do with copyrightt/trademarking.
(warning, long post about random copyright/shape stuff ahead, skip if you don't care)
Here's something Neal Moser said on the Gibson/PRS issue a few years ago, took it from a random post on his forum.

_The Gibson VRS PRS is a perfect example of "infringement". Gibson believed they were being infringed upon with the PRS Single Cut design. The Single Cut design is certainly close enough to a Les Paul for Gibson to FEEL they were being infringed upon, however, the judge in the case had a different opinion. PRS won. Depending on the judge, it could have gone either way. Actually, it DID go the other way the first time around. So, my point is proven._
This post was made after someone had copied one of his shapes - this is part of the e-mail he sent the builder.
_They mostly believe in this 10% rule. If your design is 10% different than the one you are "spinning from", then you're OK, This is not the case, there IS NO 10% rule. The rule is "Infringement". This means that if your design looks enough like another design, you MAY be infringing on someone else's design. This now becomes a "coin toss". If you continue to use the design, then the company who believes you are INFRINGING may sue you and let the court decide. NOW, having gone through this, I can tell you that just the cost for the lawyers can be as much as $50,000 and you may not win. ;-) You can be RIGHT and still spend a TON of money proving it, more than you would EVER make on the guitar in question. 

_In another topic, someone asked...

_Ok, this post leads to the question,, How much does a design have to differ before no infringement on copyright exists ?

I mean if the &#8220; footprint " of the body shape is say 10 % different is he free and clear to build it ?

Its one thing if he takes a name already " registered " it is another to approximate a shape

I have seen, in my line of work many lawsuits that were won or lost ( depending on what side your on ) based on % of footprint ie 10 % min ect

When do shapes become public domain ? Even basic shapes like the Les Paul, V, and Strat style have been copied to death in some variation and some quite minute in % yet rival manufactures feel free to build._ 

To which Neal answered
_Well, to start with, despite what most people think, there is NO 10% rule. Infringement is judged by whether a customer will be confused by what he sees. If a guitar is so close to the original that a customer can't tell the difference then it would be infringement. However, when it comes to VERY unique guitars such as the Bastard V, Bich, Beast, Morpheus, Scythe......etc, then it is far easier to prove infringement. You need to change more than a small part OR the headstock of a guitar to get around a trade mark.

It is my understanding, with guitars like Gibson and Fender, you can make a far smaller change and get away with it. This is proven out by all the near copies and even almost perfect copies of guitars offered by these two giant companies.

The more unique a design, the easier it is to prove infringement. 

Again, I could be wrong about this, but I got the information from a very reliable sourse. If you make a Les Paul that is larger, like the one we built for Lurch, then it would pass. Probably why we haven't gotten any nasty letters about building that guitar. :wink: 

IMHO, the best way to NOT INFRINGE, is to get a little creativity and design something truly NEW and stop relying on companies like MCS and BC Rich to steal designs from.  

"Oh, I'll just change THIS ONE THING and everything will be OK". Don't hold your breath and don't count on it. :wink: 

One thing that guys who copy guitar shapes don't realize is that it takes a LOT of time, money and trouble to create, build and trade mark and new and unique design and frankly, after you've gone through all that, to see someone knock it off is REALLY irritating.  

As far as how long a trade marks last, I can't give you an exact amount of time, I know there is one, but as far as Fender goes, they gave up on trying to protect the Strat shape a long time ago. However, use the Strat headstock on one of your guitar lines and then advertise it and see how long it takes to get a C&D letter. :wink: 

Hope that explains it a little. 8)_

I haven't seen (much) mention of the "10% rule" on here, just thought this might be interesting to some of you.

Another interesting piece by Jay aka Cyclonic...

_from what i have researched......headstock designs are permanent trade mark to a company but body shape becomes public domain after 50 years




ALSO the rights to those shapes MUST upheld by a yearly production of a certain number and/or still be in business.

so strats,teles,lp's,lp2's,semi-hollow and hollow jazz bodied guitars(ie 335 or gretch) the gibson explorer and flying V have all been around for over 50 years........in 2012 the sg comes into play._

Hope that gave you some insight in the PRS/Gibson etc matter


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## Marty Siggery

That's interesting reading and quite an insight. I guess common sense and some morals is the key. It doesn't seem totally black and white and is a debate that could be argued with so many manufacture's of guitars. I worked for Fernandes for a few years, in the UK they had to be careful with Gibson/Fender copies but in Japan, anything goes! I have a few of their Japanese catalogs from the late 90's and every Gibson you could imagine is copied 100 per cent, but over here in the UK, they wouldn't ship anything Gibson style
Thanks for taking the time to message all that stuff


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## UnderTheSign

This is just a guess, but it probably has something to do with the overzeas laws. I don't know if you've ever seen companies like RAN, Lootnik, etc, but they've copied a LOAD of other companies' shapes. 
Why? Because they can. Within the USA, you'd just send out a Cease & Desist letter. However, the law in some other countries simply allows/permits them to copy trademarked/copyrighted shapes.


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## Invader

Marty Siggery said:


> Jackson take ESP to court over a Headstock, yet they make Strats with Fender style headstocks? (Adrian Smith Signature Model) Go figure!!



Fender owns Jackson so it's perfectly normal.

This is what the Jackson "strat" headstock looked like before Fender ownership.


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## Marty Siggery

Invader said:


> Fender owns Jackson so it's perfectly normal.
> 
> This is what the Jackson "strat" headstock looked like before Fender ownership.



I knew that and totally forgot, yea that does make it ok. Can't believe I forgot that. What a dumbass


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## AeonSolus

UnderTheSign said:


> This is just a guess, but it probably has something to do with the overzeas laws. I don't know if you've ever seen companies like RAN, Lootnik, etc, but they've copied a LOAD of other companies' shapes.
> Why? Because they can. Within the USA, you'd just send out a Cease & Desist letter. However, the law in some other countries simply allows/permits them to copy trademarked/copyrighted shapes.



I think that it's a marketing matter, when you as a company for example, start to market a Infringeable body shape as YOURS things get a little Icky, but as a custom shop i think it is diferent, you're being payed to build whatever the customer tells you to build. a good example of that is what happened to RondoMusic, Rondo was sued by PRS for having a model that didn't differ much from one of their regular line, but why don't they sue people like RAN or other custom shops that copy their designs on daily basis?


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## Marty Siggery

AeonSolus said:


> I think that it's a marketing matter, when you as a company for example, start to market a Infringeable body shape as YOURS things get a little Icky, but as a custom shop i think it is diferent, you're being payed to build whatever the customer tells you to build. a good example of that is what happened to RondoMusic, Rondo was sued by PRS for having a model that didn't differ much from one of their regular line, but why don't they sue people like RAN or other custom shops that copy their designs on daily basis?




I think that is correct as Roger Sadowsky emailed me a few years ago regarding two basses I had built. When I explained that they were not in production and purely to the customers requirements, he accepted that and was totally fine with it 

Siggery Custom Bass 5 String Roadbass


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## Marty Siggery

I'll dig the email out and attach it later


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## UnderTheSign

AeonSolus said:


> I think that it's a marketing matter, when you as a company for example, start to market a Infringeable body shape as YOURS things get a little Icky, but as a custom shop i think it is diferent, you're being payed to build whatever the customer tells you to build. a good example of that is what happened to RondoMusic, Rondo was sued by PRS for having a model that didn't differ much from one of their regular line, but why don't they sue people like RAN or other custom shops that copy their designs on daily basis?


Like I said, not just a marketing matter - (I hope someone with more law knowledge or from the area can chime in on this one) but it's very easy for a USA based company to sue another USA based company. Due to international and country-specific laws, like I said in my previous post, it's much harder to sue an Eastern European builder.

IMO - even if you're a custom shop, I'd contact the original builder/designer first to see if it's OK for me to build one. I agree with Neal Moser on this part, it's integrity and morale. 

That said, you and Marty might be correct on one offs vs production models.


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## SavM

Awesome! How does it play? Pics pleaaaassse damnit lol!


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## AeonSolus

by far the best guitar i've ever owned or played! honestly makes my EBMM JP6 feel like garbage  thing is i'm too lazy and busy right now to take a pic, after this saturday i'll take some, thing is we're currently hosting a metal fest in my town and i'm one of the dudes behind courtains


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## SavM

Ahhhhh, Tease


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## ToniS

Can't wait for the pics dude!


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## ToniS

piiiics


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## eddiewarlock

Pics!!!


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## Lost of All Reason

It was all just a sham, the guitar doesn't exist (eep I hope he uses this as fuel to come prove us wrong cuz I wanna see it!!)


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## iron blast

pics now


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## asilayamazing

7 pages with no pics?!?! i didnt look at the other 7 but sounds like you have it now?


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