# Another College Kid gets Tasered.



## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

Student Tasered at campus forum for Kerry - CNN.com

Damn, even the Senator was like "let the kid go I'll answer his question". I hope thie kid sues the schools' pant off.


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

Dead link.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, those words say college student with a list of prepared questions getting attacked by a pair of gleeful cops who enjoy using their electronic toys. If there is one thing that needs to be replaced with unfeeling robots, that is cops.


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## Chris (Sep 18, 2007)




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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

"What did I do wrong?"

"Calm down!"

"Why am I being arrested?"

"Calm! Down!"

Man, fuck cops.


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## Chris (Sep 18, 2007)

The video on CNN.com is a lot better.


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## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

WTF is with the people smiling..... Let me tase you and see how the fuck you like it..


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## Chris (Sep 18, 2007)

The one fat cop in the CNN vid is totally smiling as they manhandle the kid too.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 18, 2007)

Sorry, but he was clearly being a cocky little prick. While I don't agree at all with a police charge of "inciting a riot" it's clear the kid was out of control. He tried to break away from the cops! On top of that he keeps saying stupid shit like, "they're going to hand me to the government. They're going to kill me" or something to that effect. Seems like he's not alright upstairs. I'm not saying he should've been tased exactly but he certainly appeared to be aggrevating the situation.


Rev.


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## Nick (Sep 18, 2007)

lol he could end up owning a large part of that school after his law suit is done with haha


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## sakeido (Sep 18, 2007)

This one is almost as bad as the kid getting tasered in the library. He was a pretty theatrical speaker, but really, the only person who should ever be charged with inciting a riot by asking some smart questions is Zach De La Rocha


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## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

Oh lookee, some brown noser from a college newspaper wrote about it.....

I can't decide if this Kyle Cox guy is trying to be sarcastic or if he really has that much wool growing out of his ass.....


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## djpharoah (Sep 18, 2007)

Holy moly - this video is better than what I saw before. The kid even pleaded not to get tasered and the cops still went on with it. I think it was excessive.


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## lordofthesewers (Sep 18, 2007)

i hope those cops get impaled lol


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## Chris (Sep 18, 2007)

Cancer said:


> Oh lookee, some brown noser from a college newspaper wrote about it.....
> 
> I can't decide if this Kyle Cox guy is trying to be sarcastic or if he really has that much wool growing out of his ass.....



 That guy is a fucking tool.



> The appropriate way to handle a speaker is with respect. Kerry didn't have to come to UF and answer our questions, and he certainly didn't come here to put up with bratty students. If you were a politician, wouldn't you think more critically about an issue raised by a civil, articulate audience member? *Politicians see whiny, screaming people every day, and chances are they don't listen to concerns voiced by a single one of them*.



That's their job.


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## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

sakeido said:


> This one is almost as bad as the kid getting tasered in the library. He was a pretty theatrical speaker, but really, the only person who should ever be charged with inciting a riot by asking some smart questions is Zach De La Rocha



I was waiting for this. This is a totally different (although related) circumstance. If Kerry was like "sorry son, you're out of time", then I would have no issue. The kid went over his allotted time, true, but the Senator granted it, and wanted to answer his question, you can hear that in the video, hence the cops should never have attempted to silence him in the first place.


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

Cancer said:


> Oh lookee, some brown noser from a college newspaper wrote about it.....
> 
> I can't decide if this Kyle Cox guy is trying to be sarcastic or if he really has that much wool growing out of his ass.....





> There is a valid lesson to be learned from this man's experience. No matter how adamantly you feel about an issue, remember police are allowed to bust a move as they feel necessary. In protesting, you have to be aware of the consequences. The police may not always be correct, but they have weapons and the legal system on their side.



Nope, he's a fucking idiot.


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

Cancer said:


> I was waiting for this. This is a totally different (although related) circumstance. If Kerry was like "sorry son, you're out of time", then I would have no issue. The kid went over his allotted time, true, but the Senator granted it, and wanted to answer his question, you can hear that in the video, hence the cops should never have attempted to silence him in the first place.



How much you wanna bet they were laughing about it over drinks that night? "Dude, you could totally see his eyes roll back into his head when you zapped him!"


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## BigM555 (Sep 18, 2007)

Cancer said:


> I was waiting for this. This is a totally different (although related) circumstance. If Kerry was like "sorry son, you're out of time", then I would have no issue. The kid went over his allotted time, true, but the Senator granted it, and wanted to answer his question, you can hear that in the video, hence the cops should never have attempted to silence him in the first place.





The dude from the Library refused to show appropriate ID to be there and then became a smart ass about it. I don't see how voicing an opinion or asking a question in a political forum when the guest speaker agrees to answer it is a reason to forceably remove him. Granted he didn't help himself out by resisting as much as he did (at points) however you've got to cut him some slack on the fact that he shouldn't have been under such duress in the first place.

There are ways to maintain order in this type of forum and this certainly is not it from what I've seen in the videos.

I'm not a fan of BS lawsuits but I certainly hope that the cops and whoever gave them the "take down" order are reprimanded.


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> I'm not a fan of BS lawsuits but I certainly hope that the cops and whoever gave them the "take down" order are reprimanded.



Never will happen. If you get arrested, then you get charged with something, and have to go to court to prove your innocence. This is a legal nicety that keeps cops from getting sued.


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## Groff (Sep 18, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> The dude from the Library refused to show appropriate ID to be there and then became a smart ass about it.




And that's why these incidents happen. Someone tries to be a smart ass and test the cops, and the cops get pissed.

I'd get pissed too.

The kid who got tasered in the previously posted video was probably being an interuptive douche-bag, and was probably asked to shut up/leave nicely several times before they tried to remove him, to which he did NOT help himself by resisting.

I've seen another video where a couple of teens were skateboarding on the sidewalk in a major city (don't remember where) and it is not permitted to skateboard or roller skate on the sidewalk for safety reasons. And when the they refused to listen and taunted the cops (even clalling him a pig) the cop brought him to the ground, cuffed him, and ran after the other, who had ran away (BIG mistake, if the cop has to run after you, he's bringin' an ass whoopin' with him). So they were like "OM GET HIM FIRED!" Which I think was BS, cause the kids were being assholes.

Cops can be dicks sometimes. But if you think cops have no authority over you and you be a douche to them, they have to right to be a douche to you.

I don't know the exact details of what happened to the college kid, as I was not there, but it did kind of look like he was being a smart ass.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

Wow, this happened when i was at school yesterday. They sent out an email about it. Care for me to post it?


Edit:
Dont care, posting anyway:



University of Florida Student Government said:


> As you are by now aware, yesterday afternoon, as a town hall forum with
> Senator John Kerry was ending, there was an incident in which a student
> was tasered. Many of you, and many of your parents, have expressed your
> concerns regarding this incident to me and my staff. I would like to
> ...



the concensus from the people i've talked to in my classes is "He had it coming". I havent read enough about it yet to give an educated opinion.


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## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

Please do.


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## Rick (Sep 18, 2007)

I kinda want to see it.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

You know, from watching the initial video posted in this, it doesnt look like he was tazed for 'voicing an opinion'. it looks like they cut his mic, asked him to leave, he refused, and started fighting back. But thats what i can see. 

Its also worth mentioning, these aren't state cops. this is the UFPD. They're an accredited police force, though with the same power as city/state cops, but smaller jurisdiction. The UFPD cops I've talked to on campus are all really cool in my experience. 
I'm interested to see what becomes of this. 

Another thing worth mentioning, none of my teachers and barely any of the classmates i have said anything about it, except one girl complaining about protesters outside the UFPD blocking the public transit making her late...


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## kung_fu (Sep 18, 2007)

Here is another vid. Its unedited but quite blurry. You get to hear the guy's whole question. Kinda makes the riot claims a little more reasonable, he seemed rude to both the authorities and the guest speaker. The audience doesn't seem to be on his side, as there is much applause as he is being dragged away. The tasering did seem excessive, but key-rist that guy was loud and annoying.


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## Clydefrog (Sep 18, 2007)

I love how he screams "I'M NOT FIGHTING BACK!" while he's trying to strong arm and break free from the cops.


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

Considering that most politicians talk to us like we're a bunch of idiots, I think sarcasm and a condescending attitude is a perfectly acceptable response. These people are supposed to *work for us*. Why can't we tell 'em off?


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## BigM555 (Sep 18, 2007)

Cool! I forgot SS.org had a man on the ground with  

Please keep us posted!

Nice to see there is at least an attempt at an investigation though I'm not sure I would describe the local PD as "impartial".



TheMissing said:


> I don't know the exact details of what happened to the college kid, as I was not there, but it did kind of look like he was being a smart ass.



I don't disagree but being a smart ass shouldn't be grounds for a tazering.  
I dislike assholes as much as the next guy. I'd like to say I'd go with the view of the majority of students Ken mentions above but...........this is Florida we're talking about. 

I don't doubt he was pushing things but you don't have to be a genius to know not to throw fuel on a fire. The police should have known this. If the event was coming to an end anyway Kerry could simply have walked off, people get up and leave, turn the lights off, stories over.

On a side note. I'm sure tazering does hurt like a mofo but the fact that he cried like a little bitch on the video after acting so obstinate leaves me with a bit less sympathy. 

I'm most curious about how this plays out simply because of it's impact on the perceptions of free speech.

EDIT: Just watched the video Kung Fu posted above. From this perspective I'd have to say the Police jumped in WAY too early for this to be called anything besides suppression of free speech. Heck, he'd only just finished the question and it's not like it was THAT lengthy. They were hassling him before he was even THAT annoying. Just because your views aren't popular and your a little annoying, I don't think thats reason to be forceably removed. Hard to blame him for being defensive.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

kung_fu said:


>





Youtube isnt loading it for me :/


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## Cancer (Sep 18, 2007)

My opinion still stands ..the cops fucked up, this comes from the stepson of a trooper who worked at UMBC.


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## Zepp88 (Sep 18, 2007)

noodles said:


> Considering that most politicians talk to us like we're a bunch of idiots, I think sarcasm and a condescending attitude is a perfectly acceptable response. These people are supposed to *work for us*. Why can't we tell 'em off?





Why can't we dig in to shifty eyed politcians?


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## kung_fu (Sep 18, 2007)

I haven't read the policeman's handbook, but the taser did seem to come out a little fast. I mean, why not at least get him out of the auditorium? The reason he was being so loud and obnoxious was the fact he had an audience. If they just got him out of there he probably would have calmed down, unless he was still convinced he hadn't made his point (whatever that was  ).


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## CatPancakes (Sep 18, 2007)

cops are worthless, sorry to anycops who this anger, but in my town they are horrible
one time i got jumped by these 2 skater kids, they hit me over the head with a board, one of them called teh cops on ME after i knocked his friend down, the cops come and cuff me, and listen to thier story but not mine, they wont listen to me, they tell me to stand up, but i was dizzy from the hit on my head, i told them i thought i had a concussion and they told me to shutup.

another time (5 years ago) when i had my moped, my neighbor took my moped out for a joy ride and got the cops called, but he parked it back on my driveway, i told them i saw my neighbor take it and i told him not to but he drove away with it, they yelled at me not to lie to them.

i hate cops


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## noodles (Sep 18, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> EDIT: Just watched the video Kung Fu posted above. From this perspective I'd have to say the Police jumped in WAY too early for this to be called anything besides suppression of free speech. Heck, he'd only just finished the question and it's not like it was THAT lengthy. They were hassling him before he was even THAT annoying. Just because your views aren't popular and your a little annoying, I don't think thats reason to be forceably removed. Hard to blame him for being defensive.





Just as he finished saying his piece, the first cop just walked up and started pinning his arm behind his back. He didn't even appear to say anything, just started to restrain him. They didn't even seem to have an answer for "What are you arresting me for?" and didn't stop when the senator said, "That's alright, I'll answer his question."

Absolute bullshit. If ANYONE other than a cop started to wrap my arm behind my back, that person is going to get kicked in the kneecap. I think it is utter lunacy that a cop can start to detain someone for exercising their first amendment rights, then call it "resisting arrest" when they guy, quite obvious, takes exception to it.

Am I the only one that noticed that the cops were just hovering behind the guy, waiting for an opportunity? I bet every single one of them has one of those "Support Our Troops and President Bush" stickers on their cars.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

There was a 1 minute limit on questions. They asked him to finish, he didn't. He said he wasn't done and was going to ask his question anyway. He got the mic cut off, and still wouldn't leave. you can't really hear that in the video. 

I do think a taser was excessive. But i do believe he should've been removed.


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## kung_fu (Sep 18, 2007)

so word on the street is 
taser=bad
student=annoying
?


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

From the few people i've talked to today. i only have two classes on tuesdays and thursdays, though.. i'm sure i'll get to talk to some more people about it tomorrow.

weird that i didnt stick around today. Usually i argue with the preachers over by the bus stop i take on campus, but i felt like getting home in a timely manner today.


Edit:
You know, i wonder why he just, rather than trying to cause a scene, didnt just say "Mr Kerry, [author of said book] said [list of things]. If thats the case, why did you concede in the election? and were in skull and bones with bush? Also, why did you decide to use a spray on tan during the 2004 campaign? It made you look like a pumpkin." And sit down?


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## Rick (Sep 18, 2007)

Totally off-topic, but I've been hit by mace and that really fucking hurt. I wonder which would be worse.


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## BigM555 (Sep 18, 2007)

noodles said:


> They didn't even seem to have an answer for "What are you arresting me for?" and didn't stop when the senator said, "That's alright, I'll answer his question."



 In the video that Kung Fu posted you can clearly hear Kerry say "That's allright, I'll answer his question." within *2 seconds* of the cops stepping up!

Apparently they were too occupied with being jackass' to hear the guest of honor.

So for those keeping score.....

Freedom of expression = tazering
Question too lengthy = tazering
Questioning authority = tazering
Being an asshole = tazering
Being loud & obnoxious = tazering
Don't agree with your opinion = tazering
Guest of honor willing to answer your lengthy question = tazering

 So without forfeiting my rights and privileges how exactly do I avoid a tazering????


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## Rev2010 (Sep 18, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> So for those keeping score.....
> 
> Freedom of expression = tazering
> Question too lengthy = tazering
> ...



    Oh man that was great!  


Rev.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> So without forfeiting my rights and privileges how exactly do I avoid a tazering????




Questioning Tazering = Tazering. Lock your door


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## Jachop (Sep 18, 2007)

Man, what can one say?

FUUUUUUCK AUTHORITY! Goddamn, I get really upset when I see these things man.


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## Lucky Seven (Sep 18, 2007)

noodles said:


> I bet every single one of them has one of those "Support Our Troops and President Bush" stickers on their cars.



So having stickers saying "Support Our Troops" and/or "President Bush" has some relation to whether or not someone agrees with the cops' actions?


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## bostjan (Sep 18, 2007)

Wow. I would comment, but I don't feel like being tazered. OWWWWW!!!! Okay, okay sorry I said that OWWWWW! 

We need a :tazered: emoticon.


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## BigM555 (Sep 18, 2007)

bostjan said:


> We need a :tazered: emoticon.



 

THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS!!







We'd have to replace the victim with  though!


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## telecaster90 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'd have to agree that using a tazer was deffinently excessive force. What amazes me the most, though, is the amount of videos on youtube about this shot from cell phones  Vigilante journalism like this can really get the real side of what happened.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 18, 2007)

Cancer said:


> Oh lookee, some brown noser from a college newspaper wrote about it.....
> 
> I can't decide if this Kyle Cox guy is trying to be sarcastic or if he really has that much wool growing out of his ass.....



Actually, i'll make a note to pickup the paper tomorrow and see if there's any responses. The Alligator is a predominantly student run newspaper that's circulated around the city for free.

They'll probably have another article or maybe some more opinions/editorials on it.


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## Groff (Sep 19, 2007)

Ah ha!

In light of this incident, some new news has come up, i'll try googling a link, but I heard this on the news this morning.

The kid who was tasered STAGED the whole thing.

Case in point: He's a professional douche-bag.

He had someone video tape it for him. He's done all kinds of practical jokes/stupid crap before, and video tapes it to be posted on his website.

I guess if you mess with the bull enough, eventually you get the horn.

Should he have been tazered? No. Should he have been a dumbass? No.

I agree the cops jumped in hastily, but even I know better than to try to strong arm a bunch of cops.





BigM555 said:


> Freedom of expression = tazering



But even so, with such rights come responsibility.


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## jim777 (Sep 19, 2007)

Clydefrog said:


> I love how he screams "I'M NOT FIGHTING BACK!" while he's trying to strong arm and break free from the cops.



It's funny, but we were actually discussing that stement (and similar "I don't want to fight you" statements) in karate the other night. It's an important statement to make and make loudly, (repeatedly if necessary), as witnesses will recount to the police that they heard you say it. It almost doesn't matter if you are crushing someone's ribs with a kick while you're yelling it, the people in the second row won't see that....


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 19, 2007)

Even if the guy was being a shit head, 4 cops holding him down and then tazering him is BS. He may have had something coming, but if 4 trained police officers can't restrain him without tazering him, then obviously there's a training issue.


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## jim777 (Sep 19, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Even if the guy was being a shit head, 4 cops holding him down and then tazering him is BS. He may have had something coming, but if 4 trained police officers can't restrain him without tazering him, then obviously there's a training issue.



This isn't NYPD Blue we're talking about, these are the college campus cops. Who knows what type of training they get, or what kind of screaning is in place for hiring. I know what to expect in NYC, and I behave myself when I leave


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## Tim77 (Sep 19, 2007)

Seriously man. Wtf did this guy do to deserve being tazed? He asked a few fucking question??? Did I miss something or are cops really that fucking stupid?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 19, 2007)

jim777 said:


> This isn't NYPD Blue we're talking about, these are the college campus cops. Who knows what type of training they get, or what kind of screaning is in place for hiring. I know what to expect in NYC, and I behave myself when I leave





Metal Ken said:


> Its also worth mentioning, these aren't state cops. this is the UFPD. They're an accredited police force, though with the same power as city/state cops, but smaller jurisdiction. The UFPD cops I've talked to on campus are all really cool in my experience.
> I'm interested to see what becomes of this.



If they are an accredited police force with the same power, then they should have the same training. If not, then they should receive the same training if they're going to be handed the same power.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 19, 2007)

Tim77 said:


> Seriously man. Wtf did this guy do to deserve being tazed? He asked a few fucking question??? Did I miss something



Well, did you watch all the various videos posted in this thread? I totally agree the tazing was way uncalled for. However that little douche created his own problems. If you watch the videos you can clearly see him putting up a fight with the cops even to the point where he breaks free and they have to grab him again. Not smart behaviour when dealing with the police. If you have a problem with what they're doing trying to confront them on the spot is the utmost stupidest way to deal with it. And usually that kind of behaviour works against you when trying to show your innocence and negligence on behalf of the police. Again though, I totally agree that the tazing was unnecessary.


Rev.


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

Not to detract from the seriousness of this issue......

but this was funny. 

I love the condescending tone of the chick.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> If they are an accredited police force with the same power, then they should have the same training. If not, then they should receive the same training if they're going to be handed the same power.



 

It shouldn't take 4 cops and a tazer to subdue one person.


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

Rick said:


> It shouldn't take 4 cops and a tazer to subdue one person.



And he shouldn't have put up so much of a struggle for them to bring two more cops in to subdue him in the first place.

And I have never heard anything more annoying than the one girl yelling "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?!"

I know why! Cause he was trying to resist arrest!  

God I wish I could have slapped her... That scream was more annoying than a baby crying.  

Also, what was with that obviously fake crying noise he was making after he got tazed? I've been hit with a tazer before (dared by a co-worker...) and yeah, it don't feel too good, not searing pain, but it's extremely uncomfortable... Until it stops, then it's just kinda a "wait what??" but by no means did it make me curl up into a ball and whine like a baby.


Since when do cops have tazers anyway? What happened to pepper spray?

More effective than tazers IMO, cause it incapacitates someone the first time, in a harmless, but yeah, painful way. But it beats flash frying your organs over and over.


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## noodles (Sep 20, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> Well, did you watch all the various videos posted in this thread? I totally agree the tazing was way uncalled for. However that little douche created his own problems. If you watch the videos you can clearly see him putting up a fight with the cops even to the point where he breaks free and they have to grab him again. Not smart behaviour when dealing with the police. If you have a problem with what they're doing trying to confront them on the spot is the utmost stupidest way to deal with it. And usually that kind of behaviour works against you when trying to show your innocence and negligence on behalf of the police. Again though, I totally agree that the tazing was unnecessary.



You're absolutely right. We should all play the game exactly the way our betters intended us to. The police are always right, and we should do exactly what they say at all times. Why, how could they ever be in the wrong? How could they ever mislead us? They are all good and honorable people that have our best interests in mind.

Come to think of it, why do we even need free speech? It just gets in the way of the government taking care of us. We should all just shut up and do what the nice police officers tell us to do.



TheMissing said:


> And he shouldn't have put up so much of a struggle for them to bring two more cops in to subdue him in the first place.
> 
> And I have never heard anything more annoying than the one girl yelling "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?!"
> 
> ...



Exactly! She should just shut up and let the police take care of us! How dare she voice an opposing opinion, why, what gives her the right? The police should have tazered Senator Kerry, too, since he had the nerve to say that he would take this miscreant's question. We can't let the opinions of people like this get out, or the next thing you know, a bunch of prominent citizens will be masquerading as indigenous peoples and dumping boxes of tea into the local waters.

Bring back the king! God save the king!


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

Noodles sarcasm has hit a new high.


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## Drew (Sep 20, 2007)

*standing ovation*


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## Chris (Sep 20, 2007)

Dave wins.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2007)

Lucky Seven said:


> So having stickers saying "Support Our Troops" and/or "President Bush" has some relation to whether or not someone agrees with the cops' actions?



 

I guess then all police that use a tazer are anti-Republican. 

Especially when used at a Democratic function.


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

noodles said:


> Exactly! She should just shut up and let the police take care of us! How dare she voice an opposing opinion, why, what gives her the right? The police should have tazered Senator Kerry, too, since he had the nerve to say that he would take this miscreant's question. We can't let the opinions of people like this get out, or the next thing you know, a bunch of prominent citizens will be masquerading as indigenous peoples and dumping boxes of tea into the local waters.
> 
> Bring back the king! God save the king!



Woah woah woah, back up. lol

I only stated that I wanted to smack her cause her voice was annoying, nothing more. She can say whatever the hell she wants, whether or not the kid deserved tazering. 

But damn did it drill into my eardrums.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2007)

That's true. 

The local sports radio station has started using that clip.


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

Hmmm... I want to make a few things clear. As people are misunderstanding me.

I DO think that the police acted WAY to hastily in trying to take him down, especially when Kerry said he'd answer the question.

I DO think cops shouldn't carry tazers, as they're not that effective, and dangerous in some situations.

I DO think the guy was absolutely STUPID for trying to strong arm the cops instead of leaving nicely and filing a complaint of some sort instead of causing a scene.

...And yes, the girl yelling "Why are you doing this" had every right to do so... But DAMN was her voice irritating.

So yeah, I agree he should have been allowed to speak. But disagree with the way he acted.

EDIT: I wish this never happened, cause it probably would have been a funny video.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2007)

TheMissing said:


> Hmmm... I want to make a few things clear. As people are misunderstanding me.
> 
> I DO think that the police acted WAY to hastily in trying to take him down, especially when Kerry said he'd answer the question.
> 
> ...



I agree with this completely.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow, really mature to give myself and TheMissing negative rep for our opinions. 


Rev.


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## Drew (Sep 20, 2007)

[off-topic]
Why does everyone always question the maturity of anyone who leaves them negative rep? I mean, it goes both ways for a reason, it's not like we implimented it so we could sit around and blow smoke up each other's asses... 
[/off-topic]


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## Rev2010 (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> Why does everyone always question the maturity of anyone who leaves them negative rep?



Because I posted this:

_Well, did you watch all the various videos posted in this thread? I totally agree the tazing was way uncalled for. However that little douche created his own problems. If you watch the videos you can clearly see him putting up a fight with the cops even to the point where he breaks free and they have to grab him again. Not smart behaviour when dealing with the police. If you have a problem with what they're doing trying to confront them on the spot is the utmost stupidest way to deal with it. And usually that kind of behaviour works against you when trying to show your innocence and negligence on behalf of the police. Again though, I totally agree that the tazing was unnecessary._

and get a negative rep that says, "not very smart are you?". So how the fuck does my opinion on it being foolish to fight with police equate to not being intelligent??

Then I see I get this from you Drew, "Condoning police burtality is a perfectly valid reason for negative reputation - Drew". Where did I say I condone police brutality?? I cleared said he shouldn't have been tazed a couple of times. The only thing I said was he made the whole situation blow up by acting the way he did and struggling with the police.

You guys should really read things more closely rather than invent people saying shit they didn't say then leaving them negative rep. That IS fucking immature.


Rev.


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## Drew (Sep 20, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> Because I posted this:
> 
> _Well, did you watch all the various videos posted in this thread? I totally agree the tazing was way uncalled for. However that little douche created his own problems. If you watch the videos you can clearly see him putting up a fight with the cops even to the point where he breaks free and they have to grab him again. Not smart behaviour when dealing with the police. If you have a problem with what they're doing trying to confront them on the spot is the utmost stupidest way to deal with it. And usually that kind of behaviour works against you when trying to show your innocence and negligence on behalf of the police. Again though, I totally agree that the tazing was unnecessary._
> 
> ...



Whoah, chill out, killer. Saying "he had it coming, he should have done what the police wanted him to" when the kid tries to ask a question that Kerry tells him to go ahead and answer, and then when he asks why he's being arrested they don't give him a response? Noodles and I were talking about this thread on the side, actually, this morning, and I'll repost my comments from there because I think they're appropriate here: 



Drew said:


> It's a complicated subject, because on some level the fundamental premise of government is that we have to respect the institution that we elect. However, at the same time, you have to be aware that one of the greatest dangers of democracy is that there may come a day when the elected government is serving themselves before the people they are elected by. I'm not saying that I don't think sometimes people do deserve what they get at the hands of cops, because there are always idiots in the world. However, brutality when no brutality would suffice is just as big a crime as anything this kid could have been accused of.



Ultimately, that's what's at stake here. You can't separate the cops methods from their actions, and what I take offense to is the fact you never for one moment consider that maybe the kid's actions were justified. The student was not committing a crime, unless speaking for longer than one minute in a Florida public assembly is a criminal offense, which I doubt. He may have been an annoying jackass, but he was an annoying jackass angaging in a political dialogue with a (liberal, it must be noted, in a state with a conservative government) politician. The police actions here can only be taken as using violence to silence political opposition and suppress political dialogue. 

Again, the kid was not doing anything illegal. Using a tazer to get him to shut up is both a violation of his political rights, and a textbook example of police brutality. You can't have it that "He should not have been tazed" but at the same time "he should have been shut up" because really the difference between the two, _especially_ as an american senator was telling him to keep speaking, are ultimately two sides of the same coin - the police were using their authority to silence a political point of view. The fact they did it by tazing him only makes matters worse. 

I can see being a little offended by noodles' reputation comment, however mine was perfectly factual. Telling me to "grow up" in a reputation comment was completely out of line.

EDIT - and you just turned your reputation off? Ok, now it's my turn to tell you to grow up.  I wasn't even going to leave you reputation for that, but now I'm tempted to try.


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## stuz719 (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> [off-topic]
> Why does everyone always question the maturity of anyone who leaves them negative rep? I mean, it goes both ways for a reason, it's not like we implemented it so we could sit around and blow smoke up each other's asses...
> [/off-topic]





View attachment 5514
Click to see animated gif.


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> The police actions here can only be taken as using violence to silence political opposition and suppress political dialogue.





[/golf clap]


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> the police were using their authority to silence a political point of view. The fact they did it by tazing him only makes matters worse.



Good point, and i'm not saying you're wrong.

I'm almost inclined to agree with that. But we don't exactly know what the cops' motives were.
(and probably never will for that matter, cause they'll just give the media BS excuses)

This is why this is a tough subject, it's hard to take sides one way or the other, at least for me it is.

Kudos for saying something that provoked thought though Drew.

Here's why I can't agree nor disagree with that...
The way you make it seem, was that the police were taking him off the mic solely for the purpose of censoring his opposing views.

But that got me thinking of how I would react to him if I was an onlooker.

So I have a non biased question... 

In the video, it's not too clear that he is actually trying to stir up an interesting conversation, because he does so in a kind of sarcastic, silly attitude. Which I understand, because he's trying to videotape himself, and wants to make it interesting.

But did the cops REALLY want to silence his freedom of speech? Or did they take it at face value and simply react on his smart-alec attitude alone?

Keep in mind i'm not looking for answers about whether or not he should have been tazered, this is aimed at what led up to it.

That's really the only thing I don't quite understand about all of this. I mean, most of us can agree the cops were innapropriate, acted too quickly, are guilty of brutality, and are downright dicks for letting it get that far... But I still don't know how I feel about what led up to it.


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

TheMissing said:


> But did the cops REALLY want to silence his freedom of speech? Or did they take it at face value and simply react on his smart-alec attitude alone?



No offense, but I don't understand how an answer to that changes anything about the discussion. 

Are cops now entitled to throw the beat down simply because they don't like your body language or the tone of your voice? 

There was no "lead up" to the cops stepping in. They provided absolutely NO opportunity for him to simply walk away after the mic was shut off. They were all over him like a pack of wolves on a deer. No wonder he got defensive.

Ever seen a deer just give up and say "Ah, f_ck it. They're wovles...what am I to do?" 

Just to reiterate, make no mistake, the guy was annoying, loud, sarcastic and obnoxious. He may even have been staging the whole thing but NONE of that excuses the reaction from the University law enforcement IMO.


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## noodles (Sep 20, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> Are cops now entitled to throw the beat down simply because they don't like your body language or the tone of your voice?
> 
> There was no "lead up" to the cops stepping in. They provided absolutely NO opportunity for him to simply walk away after the mic was shut off. They were all over him like a pack of wolves on a deer. No wonder he got defensive.
> 
> Ever seen a deer just give up and say "Ah, f_ck it. They're wovles...what am I to do?"



Excellent post. 

The part about the deer reminds me of something Ice T once said: "If you are trying to kill me, do you think I'm going to care that you have a badge? Fuck that, you're gonna be one dead cop."


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> No offense, but I don't understand how an answer to that changes anything about the discussion.
> 
> Are cops now entitled to throw the beat down simply because they don't like your body language or the tone of your voice?
> 
> ...



Excellent point, but that's the reason i'm confused. Cops DO NOT have any authority to act on body language and tone.

I know from other situations, that peoples attitudes and behavior can be mis-enterpreted.

It's just that I can't fathom anyone acting out the way they did just because they wanted to supress his freedom of speach? People voice their opinions all over the country every day, and 99% of them go off without a hitch... Then there are incidents like this that throw me for a loop. The more I think about it, the more I think this was just a (big) fuck up on the cops part, which is NOT acceptable by no means.

If cops really wanted to supress political opinion they would barge into every forum like this and take everyone down who doesn't agree. Which I know they don't because I participated in one at my school a few months ago.

And I'm not looking for an answer to change the discussion, It's just a question I had in my head that I was looking for answers to. (beats arguing over rep)


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## noodles (Sep 20, 2007)

But they DO act based on body language and tone, all the time. This guy got up there and started giving the Senator a hard time, so they decided to remove him. They weren't going to let something as simple as Constitutional rights get in their way, either.

I'm going to have to dig up a friend's blog from a protest he was at. They noticed that the "violent instigators" that got arrested, effectively ending the peaceful protest, were wearing the exact same boots and pants as the riot police who "arrested" them, and that they were never booked or charged with a crime.


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

noodles said:


> But they DO act based on body language and tone, all the time. This guy got up there and started giving the Senator a hard time, so they decided to remove him. They weren't going to let something as simple as Constitutional rights get in their way, either.



 

I see...

This whole thing just starts sounding dirtier and dirtier the more I hear.

(which is what i'm tyring to understand)


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## noodles (Sep 20, 2007)

Found it.

Montebello provocateurs matching boots | The News is NowPublic.com

Quebec police admit they went undercover at Montebello protest

In Canada, but I doubt that makes much of a difference. Cops are cops, no matter where you go, and they always seem to go as far as they can get away with.


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

noodles said:


> Found it.
> 
> Montebello provocateurs matching boots | The News is NowPublic.com
> 
> ...





Isn't this called entrapment? Or at the very least "instigating a riot" which seems to give me a sense of deja vu.

OH YEAH! I seem to recall one female UF officer saying it. 



The article said:


> "At all times, they responded within their mandate to keep order and security."



Yeah, that'd be why you were masked and carrying a rock and would not reveal yourself to the protest organizers!?  

Nice reference Dave.


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## Drew (Sep 20, 2007)

TheMissing said:


> Here's why I can't agree nor disagree with that...
> The way you make it seem, was that the police were taking him off the mic solely for the purpose of censoring his opposing views.



Well, the point everyone seems to be making is that really there's not much difference in this case. He was being told, and the police were being told, by a (liberal, again, in a conservative-governed state) to continue with his question. The cops ignored Kerry. At this point, it becomes an arguable case for political repression. The force employed was way out of line with what was needed in the situation, especially since the man fielding questions didn't seem at all phased. The cops don't even necessarily have to disagree with him, per se - they were interfering with his right to express himself politicallly, in a situation where it was clear his presence was not irritating the keynote speaker. 

Plain and simple, it was a use of brutal force to suppress his constitutional right to freedom of speech and political expression.


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## Eric (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> Plain and simple, it was a use of brutal force to suppress his constitutional right to freedom of speech and political expression.


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## Metal Ken (Sep 20, 2007)

The Independent Florida Alligator: News - Meyer knew of taping, according to UPD report

This was in Today's campus paper. 




> In a loud voice, Meyer said he was "sick of listening to Kerry's crap for the past two hours," and he demanded permission to ask questions, the report states.
> 
> Meyer was "badgering the senator about his beliefs, talking about 'blowjobs' and yelling as loud as he could to sensationalize his presence," when officer Nicole Mallo, Sgt. Eddie King and several other officers attempted to take him outside, Mallo





> After Meyer was arrested, Mallo wrote that he was "laughing and being lighthearted" when cameras were out of sight.
> 
> The report said Meyer asked if cameras would be at the jail.
> 
> Mallo wrote that on the way to jail, Meyer told police, "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just doing your job."





> Still, Meyer's Web site, which features several homemade videos, political rants and purchasing instructions for an $89 remote-controlled, color-changing "pimp lamp," has raised suspicions about his diatribe on Monday.
> 
> One of Meyer's videotaped sketches features Meyer standing in a street with a sign proclaiming, "Harry Dies," when the last Harry Potter book, "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," was released in July.
> 
> The Associated Press contributed to this report.


This Also occured:






Whats this wall? This is a memorial for cop, who, during spring semester got killed when a drunk driver hit him. Protesters decided to vandalize a memorial for a guy who died at the hands of a drunk driver who _also_ happened to be a cop. What the fuck?


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow, that's nice.


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## Drew (Sep 20, 2007)

So the guy's clearly a cock. That doesn't mean it was right to taze him - if anything, the cops played straight into his hands.


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## jim777 (Sep 20, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> If they are an accredited police force with the same power, then they should have the same training. If not, then they should receive the same training if they're going to be handed the same power.



There isn't any national police training policy or anything. Damn near every police force trains whatever and however they please. Police training could be a week, a weekend, or three months like in NYC. Also, the one thing that really makes a good cop is experience. You definitely get that in a city, you can get that in a town, but I don't know how much you get between the stadium and the new library quad.


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## jim777 (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> So the guy's clearly a cock. That doesn't mean it was right to taze him - if anything, the cops played straight into his hands.



Stupid people are entertaining. In this situation there were a whole bunch of them. Better still; getting a whole bunch of stupid and ignorant people together can be entertaining.


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## Groff (Sep 20, 2007)

The quotes and links Metal Ken posted were quite... Interesting... And suprising to be honest.


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## BigM555 (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> So the guy's clearly a cock. That doesn't mean it was right to taze him - if anything, the cops played straight into his hands.



 can't say I'm shocked.

Also, the defacing of the memorial was in very poor taste. Whoever did it should be thoroughly ashamed.


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## JBroll (Sep 21, 2007)

Normally I hate sports, but looking at this I'm starting to see a fairly large advantage - no matter how horrible the ballgame is, at least only one side loses.

Jeff


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 21, 2007)

jim777 said:


> There isn't any national police training policy or anything. Damn near every police force trains whatever and however they please. Police training could be a week, a weekend, or three months like in NYC. Also, the one thing that really makes a good cop is experience. You definitely get that in a city, you can get that in a town, but I don't know how much you get between the stadium and the new library quad.



....And you hand these people guns?


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## noodles (Sep 21, 2007)

Metal Ken said:


> Whats this wall? This is a memorial for cop, who, during spring semester got killed when a drunk driver hit him. Protesters decided to vandalize a memorial for a guy who died at the hands of a drunk driver who _also_ happened to be a cop. What the fuck?



That is completely unnecessary. Protest outside of the campus police station? Yes. Desecrate a memorial to a dead cop? Have some common decency.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 21, 2007)

If it wasn't a dead cop's memorial that would actually be funny.


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## noodles (Sep 21, 2007)

Metal Ken said:


> The Independent Florida Alligator: News - Meyer knew of taping, according to UPD report



While I'm not a big fan of his methods, he certainly didn't deserve to get tazered.

Not that I am in anyway putting this jackhole on the same level, but Rosa Parks wasn't exactly some random black lady who decided she had been pushed too far. She was a member of the NAACP, trained to deal with exactly that situation, and was selected to break the law by sitting in the front of the bus.

So, if this guy's crude methods accomplish what he set out to do, then more power to him. I just wished he would have spent a little more time working on his "question", so he didn't sound like an arrogant cock when he read it.


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## oompa (Sep 21, 2007)

noodles said:


> "What did I do wrong?"
> 
> "Calm down!"
> 
> ...



man this development truly scares the shit out of me. for real, fascism incoming.

sometimes i zap past some channel at the tv where they show this um.. cops series thingy, where they like.. show arrests and stuff with a camerateam hanging with a cop team, i dont remember its name.

and the above stuff happens all the time, and they kinda glorify it and you know, so they pull a kid out from a car that has been speeding or something, and if he doesnt throw himself on the ground and pretty much begs to get cuffed, he gets wrestled down and gets a knee to the neck, and then the police tries to act all professional asking the standard question while the guy beneath his and his buddys bodyweight is chewing pavement trying to answer the questions.

and the guy commenting the show is all "thanks to the heroic act of policeman Something, this kid is looking forward to 3 months jailtime" or something, as if the friggin policeman is somekind of hero for wrestling down a 50 kilo guy just tryin to ask whats goin on.

sure, i understand sometimes its rough, and i understand that they have to be cautious cus its kindof a different situation over there but like.. most of the regular arrests i see in this show would probably be classed as assault/police brutality over here. just the regular ones, not to mention if someone tries to escape, i mean, they dont just catch him and cuff him, they get backup, catch him and then 4 policemen sit on the guys face while breaking an arm or something while cuffing the guy, while they tell him how stupid he is.


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## Lucky Seven (Sep 24, 2007)

Would it have been wrong to take Andrew Meyer away from the mic had Kerry said, "Get this douche the fuck out of here"?


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## JBroll (Sep 24, 2007)

It would have been funnier. 

"Goddamn, kid, John fucking Kerry doesn't have the patience for you..."

"Don't refuse to answer my obnoxious and irrelevant questions, bro!"

"Next!"

Jeff


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## noodles (Sep 24, 2007)

"How much pot did you smoke while writing that? I almost fell asleep waiting for you to finish. My three purple hearts says I don't have to answer any of your silly fucking questions."


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## Drew (Sep 24, 2007)

noodles said:


> "How much pot did you smoke while writing that? I almost fell asleep waiting for you to finish. My three purple hearts says I don't have to answer any of your silly fucking questions."



Alternate reality, bro. The John Kerry who would have answered that would have made short work of Bush in the '04 election.


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## noodles (Sep 24, 2007)

Drew said:


> Alternate reality, bro. The John Kerry who would have answered that would have made short work of Bush in the '04 election.



No fucking shit, since that is the attitude John Kerry should have taken. "I have three purple hearts from combat in Vietnam, President Bush. I served my country when called upon. Where where you when I was defending our country?"

Kerry needed to be more like Lloyd Bentsen. "Mr. President, you're no Ronald Regan" would have positively crushed Bush. And I don't even like Regan.


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## Drew (Sep 24, 2007)




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## Groff (Sep 24, 2007)

If only...


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