# Ibanez 2021 models (Headless!)



## bastardbullet

Well, it’s here and it’s a total rgd “invasion” currently.

Please let there be a decent saber 7, please.

Anyways,

At first glance;

Martin Miller signature MM7:




AZ24027 Prestige:




AZ24047 Prestige:




RGDR4427FX Prestige:




RGD71ALPHA Axion Label:




RGD70ALNB Axion Label:




RGD7521PB Standard Line:




RG752AHM Prestige:


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## diagrammatiks

man I'll settle for a Sd.


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## bzhang9

No sure why they got rid of the S5527 and S6527s so quickly but they were sick. Would rather take those than AZ7s at $2k price point. MM7 will be 2800-3k which is too much


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## bastardbullet

bzhang9 said:


> No sure why they got rid of the S5527 and S6527s so quickly but they were sick. Would rather take those than AZ7s at $2k price point. MM7 will be 2800-3k which is too much



Totally agreed with the s5527/s5527qfx.


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## Rynphos

These new RGDs started as interesting, now they're on the tacky side.
Purple RGs with maple necks are yummy.


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## Seabeast2000

That 4427 is in my wheelhouse.


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## Ordacleaphobia

bzhang9 said:


> No sure why they got rid of the S5527 and S6527s so quickly but they were sick. Would rather take those than AZ7s at $2k price point. MM7 will be 2800-3k which is too much



I'm not sure why they don't show more love to the sabers in general. They're by far their best shape.

I mean, I _know_ why- more expensive to produce = higher price = less sales, but I like to pretend that I don't.
Hate to say it after there was so much cool stuff last year, but nothing's grabbing me so far this time around.


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## TheBlackBard

Goddamn it, I just bought a 7421.


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## Forkface

Rynphos said:


> These new RGDs started as interesting, now they're on the tacky side.


agreed. RGD only works in a solid satin color, i lost interest when they started releasing them with shitty wood veneers and unpainted/different colored bevels.
im still kickin myself for missing out on the red RGDR that Axepalace did as a limited run. i remember thinking "i should get this... nah ive spent too much in guitars lately" and alas, i hate myself now.


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## dirtool

......fuck middle dots


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## 77zark77

The HSS 7 string is a good concept for me, but the roasted wtf mapple thing is a no-no
please put here some serious rosewood or ebony (or richlite ?)


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## nikt

Probably going to buy that AZ24047. Waiting to see some more color options.


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## cardinal

24047 is great, though I agree with @77zark77 that a rosewood board would have been better.


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## AkiraSpectrum

I NEED THIS.


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## Musiscience

The RGDR is cool. Also curious to hear how the hyperion sounds as a 7 string pickup. 

They release a few 22 frets AZs with rosewood boards for those who didn't like maple boards.


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## Apex1rg7x

Forkface said:


> agreed. RGD only works in a solid satin color, i lost interest when they started releasing them with shitty wood veneers and unpainted/different colored bevels.
> im still kickin myself for missing out on the red RGDR that Axepalace did as a limited run. i remember thinking "i should get this... nah ive spent too much in guitars lately" and alas, i hate myself now.


My thoughts exactly. That one was nearly perfect.


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## bzhang9

the satin black, chameleon, white, and orange RGDs for the past 10 years at lower prices were way classier and actually expensive looking

the new prestige RGDR with bevels looks cheap, especially with that bridge, looks wrong without tight ends


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## c7spheres

Ibanez should just close up shop. Either that or require the designers actually play guitar. They just don't seem to "get it" for the last 20 years. Just when you think they can't do any worse, they do! Every year I literally hate them more and more. I'm gonna go suck my thumb in the corner now.




edit: I guess the AZ24047 isn't that bad, but would be better with an ebony/richlite, normal maple, rosewood board. Literally anything other than roasted maple.


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## 77zark77

^ your edit: looks like a 77zark77 quote ! great taste !


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## Kaura

All of those look cheap as fuk.


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## buck fever

Gosh, I wish they’d done a 27” XL RGR. I can’t stand those bevels or the RGD neck.


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## gunshow86de

AkiraSpectrum said:


> I NEED THIS.


If they could de-Kieselfy this a tad I'd be interested. Put this same trans-blue on solid ash or mahogany body.


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## gunshow86de

Do this in some Fendery surf colors please.


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## Metropolis

Prestiges had some nice new finishes in RG752/652 and 5000-series, but those Axion Labels with coloured bevels and backs with black tops, wtf? Not too intrigued about richlite tops either in RGDR models. Sevenstring AZ's are cool, but personally I'm not fully into that traditional/modern hybrid kind of thing.

It's like some of the finish options are too basic, and others are just plain awful Kiesel copies.

Though RG565 re-issue is going to sell a lot.


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## diagrammatiks

no s love at all this year. the entire lineup is like 3 guitars now and the jiva.

prestige level s's aren't even on their website anymore. whomp whomp.


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## DEUCE SLUICE

The only thing that kept me from buying the RGDR4327 last year was the trem, so I guess I have to get that RGDR4427FX.


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## mitou

Oh well. The RG2027XL remains the best looking seven string Ibby currently in production.


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## spacebard

Some more of the new 2021 models






FRM300-PR (Paul Gilbert Signature Model)




PWM20 (Paul Waggoner Signature Model)





RG5320C-DFM




RG5170B-BK




RG5121-BCF




RG6PKAG-NTF




RG631ALF-BCM




RG80F-IPT




RG320EXZ-BKF





RGA42HPQM-BIG




RGA742FM-TGF




RGD61ALA-MTR




SEW761FM-NTF




AZ2204N-PBM





AZ2204N-AWD





AZ2204N-BK


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## Seabeast2000

gunshow86de said:


> Do this in some Fendery surf colors please.


Braised tomato neck mandatory.


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## spacebard

Better picture of the RG5170B Prestige


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

bastardbullet said:


> RG752AHM Prestige:
> 
> View attachment 88466



How is this the only one I like?


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## cardinal

The MTR finish on the RGD61 is pretty boss.

And the RGB basses with the P-J config are really cool.


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## TheBolivianSniper

spacebard said:


> Better picture of the RG5170B Prestige



Yooooooo

But I need money and probably should have a bass, I have 3 guitars and I need to be able to write rhythm parts 


SELL ALL GUITARS BUY IT

EEEEEEEE


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## Quiet Coil

Whole lotta nothin’ for me, but then I guess my scope is pretty limited at this point. Bummed there aren’t any new multi scale guitars, and definitely did not see the shorter scale EHB’s coming.


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## aesthyrian

spacebard said:


> Better picture of the RG5170B Prestige



Reminds me of a classier version of the old RG440 finish


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## StevenC

Why does Ibanez hate 8 strings?


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## 0rimus

Aw man, why didn't they do this as a 7 string?


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## cardinal

StevenC said:


> Why does Ibanez hate 8 strings?



I assume they'd make them if people would buy more of them


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## cardinal

Quiet Coil said:


> Whole lotta nothin’ for me, but then I guess my scope is pretty limited at this point. Bummed there aren’t any new multi scale guitars, and definitely did not see the shorter scale EHB’s coming.



hadn't noticed the EHBs were short scale. Wish there was a 6-string. I've been wanting a short scale bass to turn to F# in unison with my 8-string guitars.


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## Seabeast2000




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## mlp187

0rimus said:


> Aw man, why didn't they do this as a 7 string?
> View attachment 88480


I can’t believe they didn’t do this design with a higher-end release. This is really cool, IMO.


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## 0rimus

Yeah, that gray and black aesthetic, reverse headstock thing is awesome.

It says the fingerboard is purpleheart but its gotta be dyed or something, never seen gray purpleheart. But the way the black inlays contrast really does something for me. Just needs another string.


... and make it 29.4" scale


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## ramses

bastardbullet said:


> AZ24047 Prestige:
> 
> View attachment 88467



7-string prestige strat 

... my wife is going to kill me :-(


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## iamaom

0rimus said:


> Aw man, why didn't they do this as a 7 string?
> View attachment 88480


Hot damn I found my new sticker guitar.


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## BusinessMan

Wow they all look terrible.


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## TheShreddinHand

Interesting that Marco leaves Ibanez and they release the RG6PKAG premium (reb beach model) that looks essentially like what he’s playing with charvel now.

I want to like the AZ 7 string but that 305 radius board and rounded neck....may as well be a Louisville slugger with 7 strings on it.


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## 73647k

bastardbullet said:


> RGD71ALPHA Axion Label:



I hate all of them but the swamp vibe I get from this pretty neat


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## Phlegethon

bastardbullet said:


> RGD71ALPHA Axion Label:
> 
> View attachment 88461
> 
> 
> RGD7521PB Standard Line:
> 
> View attachment 88463


These have some of my attention, save for the side dots on the Axion label and the horrific colour on the RGD standard.


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## spacebard

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/news/detail/20201203155245.html
New models for north america

 





PGMM11-JB (Paul Gilbert Signature Model)


 





RG421MSP-PSP
 





RG421EX-TCM








RGA61A


 





S1070PBZ-WFB

 





S561-SFM


----------



## Seabeast2000

AI marketing confirmed, @diagrammatiks


----------



## mlp187

Wow to that sea foam S! Beautiful!!!


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## _MonSTeR_

spacebard said:


> Better picture of the RG5170B Prestige


This pic saved me hundreds. I was going to pre-order this until I saw the red pearloid binding.


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## spacebard

Rich Harris as already posted prices for some new 2021 Ibanez guitars on http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/index.htm


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## MFB

_MonSTeR_ said:


> This pic saved me hundreds. I was going to pre-order this until I saw the red pearloid binding.



Is it red pearloid? My brain keeps thinking its a stained wood binding that's just more on the red side because of whatever species it is.


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## cdnpunk

Mostly unimpressed. That Prussian Blue Metallic AZ might get me tho.


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## DEUCE SLUICE

spacebard said:


> Rich Harris as already posted prices for some new 2021 Ibanez guitars on http://www.ibanezrules.com/new/index.htm



Hmm, when he says "*SHOW SPECIALS TO BE ANNOUNCED 1/21*" how much additional stuff should we be expecting?


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## spacebard

MFB said:


> Is it red pearloid? My brain keeps thinking its a stained wood binding that's just more on the red side because of whatever species it is.



The binding doesn't look red in this video


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## MFB

Oh shit, 0:35 second mark looks like straight tortoise shell, interesting. Really curious to know what the hell material that is then since we see it changing depending on the lighting.


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## MaxOfMetal

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Hmm, when he says "*SHOW SPECIALS TO BE ANNOUNCED 1/21*" how much additional stuff should we be expecting?



Not a ton. A couple cool models not shown yet, but the bulk has already been released.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man did Reb Beach rejoin Ibanez or something?


----------



## Quiet Coil

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not a ton. A couple cool models not shown yet, but the bulk has already been released.


If memory serves correct whatever’s left would likely be Prestige or even J Custom (or am I misremembering)?


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

I suppose the likelihood that hardtail RGDR is even available for purchase before the 21st is pretty low, but if there's some other Prestige hardtail 7 in the chamber and I should hold off can you blink twice or something?


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## 73647k

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> I suppose the likelihood that hardtail RGDR is even available for purchase before the 21st is pretty low, but if there's some other Prestige hardtail 7 in the chamber and I should hold off can you blink twice or something?



This is the same boat that I'm in right now!


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## Church2224

I like the AZs, cool guitars. 

I am glad the RG550 Genesis is still being made. I got 4 RG550s...and I want more lol


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## Hollowway

cardinal said:


> I assume they'd make them if people would buy more of them


And people would buy them if they weren’t ass ugly.  Seriously, the 8s are either super basic and boring or a strand combination of crap that doesn’t appeal to anyone. This year’s model is no different. It looks like a previous year release that someone decided to mod on their own.


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## diagrammatiks

Seabeast2000 said:


> AI marketing confirmed, @diagrammatiks



We forced an ai to look at millions of guitars on Instagram. Then forced it to design some guitars.


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## SpaceDock

Still no headless guitar?


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## 27InchScale

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not a ton. A couple cool models not shown yet, but the bulk has already been released.



max,

Any word on Munkys new MIJ sig? New Apex? New production K7????


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## odibrom

I'm not a big fan of non angled headstocks like Fender's, but I could eventually* open an exception to those AZ 7 stringers, Martin Miller's included...

Interesting to see AlNiCo pickups becoming more main stream in 7 stringers...

* ... like if it was given I wouldn't say no and could eventually keep it...


----------



## mitou

Quiet Coil said:


> If memory serves correct whatever’s left would likely be Prestige or even J Custom (or am I misremembering)?



I think last year they revealed the signature models later. The PIAs at least.

Kinda surprising that they killed off the fluorescent green RGR5220. I thought that guitar was a big seller.


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## OmegaSlayer

Love the Paul Waggoner
Loved even the old grey one, so that's not a big surprise


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## Metropolis

_MonSTeR_ said:


> This pic saved me hundreds. I was going to pre-order this until I saw the red pearloid binding.



It actually looks too red in stock photos. In person color is more like tortoise brown or something.


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## _MonSTeR_

Metropolis said:


> It actually looks too red in stock photos. In person color is more like tortoise brown or something.



That might actually be worse!


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## mrpanoff

spacebard said:


> Better picture of the RG5170B Prestige



Black neck binding or none?


----------



## Vegetta

A whole lot of nope from me. No ebony, or stainless and horrible colors . Only one even slightly appealing is the sesfoam S but it looks a bit chesp. 

I was kind of hoping for a headless but out of the stuff we have seen nothing is jumping out at me and that makes me a bit sad


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## Musiscience

mrpanoff said:


> Black neck binding or none?



Looks like the same binding as the body if you zoom in.


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## Metropolis

Vegetta said:


> A whole lot of nope from me. No ebony, or stainless and horrible colors . Only one even slightly appealing is the sesfoam S but it looks a bit chesp.
> 
> I was kind of hoping for a headless but out of the stuff we have seen nothing is jumping out at me and that makes me a bit sad



5000-series has ebony fretboards and stainless steel frets  But no stainless in other series than that and J-customs.


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## diagrammatiks

Vegetta said:


> A whole lot of nope from me. No ebony, or stainless and horrible colors . Only one even slightly appealing is the sesfoam S but it looks a bit chesp.
> 
> I was kind of hoping for a headless but out of the stuff we have seen nothing is jumping out at me and that makes me a bit sad



well the seafoam one is a 561 so the cheapest one really.


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## I play music

Metropolis said:


> 5000-series has ebony fretboards and stainless steel frets  But no stainless in other series than that and J-customs.


5000 series and EHB are actually the only Ibanez appealing to me... and for me none of them got interesting additions this year. 

I'm no Ibanez expert, but it looks to me like they always have one year with actual news and one year with warmed up soup. Looks like this year is the warmed up soup.


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## Bloody_Inferno

This makes me glad I held off on the blue RGD hardtail.


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## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> I'm no Ibanez expert, but it looks to me like they always have one year with actual news and one year with warmed up soup. Looks like this year is the warmed up soup.



They've been moving away from the on/off cylce and going to a more rounded release schedule since around 2015.

This year we're getting a new sub-series for the EHB, 7-string AZs, RG565s, RGBs, and a couple other things that are waiting at the show. 

Not a bad year considering live music is dead and a global pandemic.


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## mlp187

I really wish Ibanez would release Lari Basilio’s model:


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## Church2224

MaxOfMetal said:


> They've been moving away from the on/off cylce and going to a more rounded release schedule since around 2015.
> 
> This year we're getting a new sub-series for the EHB, 7-string AZs, RG565s, RGBs, and a couple other things that are waiting at the show.
> 
> Not a bad year considering live music is dead and a global pandemic.



I was about to say...

Anything new this year is a good thing all things considered with the world situation.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> They've been moving away from the on/off cylce and going to a more rounded release schedule since around 2015.
> 
> This year we're getting a new sub-series for the EHB, 7-string AZs, RG565s, RGBs, and a couple other things that are waiting at the show.
> 
> Not a bad year considering live music is dead and a global pandemic.





Church2224 said:


> I was about to say...
> 
> Anything new this year is a good thing all things considered with the world situation.


Live music is dead but from what I've heard music gear sales are actually up because people are having more time for their hobbies and spend money on that. The average guitar buyer is not the one playing guitar for a living but more the bedroom guitarist. Of course money sits tight for some of us but when you look at used market it looks like people buy more than they sell...


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> This year we're getting a new sub-series for the EHB, 7-string AZs, RG565s, RGBs, and a couple other things that are waiting at the show.


Here in Europe we already had half of that last year, maybe for North American market it's new.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

mitou said:


> Kinda surprising that they killed off the fluorescent green RGR5220. I thought that guitar was a big seller.



I'm surprised too! I was expecting a color change.



I play music said:


> Live music is dead but from what I've heard music gear sales are actually up because people are having more time for their hobbies and spend money on that. The average guitar buyer is not the one playing guitar for a living but more the bedroom guitarist. Of course money sits tight for some of us but when you look at used market it looks like people buy more than they sell...



Guitar Center basically sold out of ~$500 guitars nationwide this summer, but the guy who builds my basses said business for him at the higher end has fallen off precipitously.


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## spacebard

SpaceDock said:


> Still no headless guitar?



No but they have made headless basses.

 




EHB1000S-PMM





EHB1000S-SFM
 




EHB1005SMS-EMM





EHB1005SMS-MGM


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## spacebard

mrpanoff said:


> Black neck binding or none?



Look at 1:01


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## TheShreddinHand

Metropolis said:


> 5000-series has ebony fretboards and stainless steel frets  But no stainless in other series than that and J-customs.



Yeah I was really hoping that new 752 would have SS frets but alas....


----------



## Seabeast2000

spacebard said:


> No but they have made headless basses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1000S-PMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1000S-SFM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1005SMS-EMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1005SMS-MGM



30" or so ey?


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## DEUCE SLUICE

No 5000-series 7-string at all is kind of strange, no?


----------



## I play music

mitou said:


> I think last year they revealed the signature models later. The PIAs at least.
> 
> Kinda surprising that they killed off the fluorescent green RGR5220. I thought that guitar was a big seller.


Oh shit, the 7 as well.. Those were actually the coolest of the bunch IMO!


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## mitou

Yeah the sevens are gone and all the six string Prestige reverse heads are now hardtails. Hmm.


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## spacebard

Seabeast2000 said:


> 30" or so ey?



EHB1000S is 30"

EHB1005SMS is 32"-30"


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## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> Live music is dead but from what I've heard music gear sales are actually up because people are having more time for their hobbies and spend money on that. The average guitar buyer is not the one playing guitar for a living but more the bedroom guitarist. Of course money sits tight for some of us but when you look at used market it looks like people buy more than they sell...



Artists drive the marketing and R&D of most mainstream manufacturers.

When that stagnates, the new stuff does.

Listen, I'm bummed they didn't release my dream guitar either, but it's not like there were only color refreshes this year. 

Distributors clearing out the cheap stuff is why there is a bunch of Indo RGDs, RGAs, and goofy Saber derivites.


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## Spicypickles

Hard meh for the most part, but that Paul Waggoner model could get it.


----------



## Frostbite

That Prestige RGD in Blue can get the pp


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Artists drive the marketing and R&D of most mainstream manufacturers.
> 
> When that stagnates, the new stuff does.
> 
> Listen, I'm bummed they didn't release my dream guitar either, but it's not like there were only color refreshes this year.
> 
> Distributors clearing out the cheap stuff is why there is a bunch of Indo RGDs, RGAs, and goofy Saber derivites.


But does it stagnate? 
I feel like artists do more studio work and social media/videos now, so maybe more marketing for manufacturers?


DEUCE SLUICE said:


> No 5000-series 7-string at all is kind of strange, no?





mitou said:


> Yeah the sevens are gone and all the six string Prestige reverse heads are now hardtails. Hmm.


Maybe they decided to make the new AZ 7s instead as a replacement. I'd prefer RG over AZ any day, especially the headstock but maybe their sales data speaks otherwise :-/


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> But does it stagnate?
> I feel like artists do more studio work and social media/videos now, so maybe more marketing for manufacturers?
> 
> 
> Maybe they decided to make the new AZ 7s instead as a replacement. I'd prefer RG over AZ any day, especially the headstock but maybe their sales data speaks otherwise :-/



Ibanez doesn't really launch "big deal" new products without artist support, and that means on top of YouTube videos, touring and clinics and new albums. With much of that on hold, we weren't going to get anything ground breaking that wasn't already coming down the pike long ago.

That's why most new/different offerings are usually flanked by artists with them and LACS variants.

The AZs have exceeded all expectations as far as sales go. Expect them to be a flagship product until that's no longer the case. That's why we're seeing so many variations, including the 7 that was originally unplanned until after they hit the market.

All that said, we did get some cool, long asked for products this year, not just new colors.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

If there really are a couple more being held for release later this month there have to be Prestige RG 7's in there. JP market has zero right now, US only has the two 752s.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ibanez doesn't really launch "big deal" new products without artist support, and that means on top of YouTube videos, touring and clinics and new albums. With much of that on hold, we weren't going to get anything ground breaking that wasn't already coming down the pike long ago.
> 
> That's why most new/different offerings are usually flanked by artists with them and LACS variants.
> 
> The AZs have exceeded all expectations as far as sales go. Expect them to be a flagship product until that's no longer the case. That's why we're seeing so many variations, including the 7 that was originally unplanned until after they hit the market.
> 
> All that said, we did get some cool, long asked for products this year, not just new colors.


Yeah I can see that for fans of the AZ this is big news, just not for me who wanted XL models in the 5000 line


DEUCE SLUICE said:


> If there really are a couple more being held for release later this month there have to be Prestige RG 7's in there. JP market has zero right now, US only has the two 752s.


JP market? As much as I prefer RGs, AZ 7 string is basically an Ibanez JP ...


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

Sorry, I meant Japan market. https://www.ibanez.com/jp/products/model/rg/


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## soul_lip_mike

Man I was really hoping they would sell that blue ibanez Jake bowen has with the slanted single in the neck.


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## bassplayer8

soul_lip_mike said:


> Man I was really hoping they would sell that blue ibanez Jake bowen has with the slanted single in the neck.


That LACS is seriously one of my favourite guitars ever. I've actually been eyeing this jackson as its the closest production model in specs/looks to that guitar. https://www.jacksonguitars.com/gear...s-soloist-arch-top-extreme-sl27-ex/2918329557


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## Musiscience

spacebard said:


> Look at 1:01




I cringe so hard every time a a guy slaps a guitar with his wedding ring. No need to take it off but don't slap the poor thing with it. Hurts my soul. 

Really hyped up for the rest of the release later this month. If rumors of an AZ tele are true, I might just have to buy a new guitar this year... Only hoping it is a traditional SS setup and not HH.


----------



## Selkoid

Kind of disappointed the evertune stuff was limited to last year on the apex and the RGD with a 26.5" scale length on a 6... was hoping to get some more variety with the ET bridges as a lot of the other brands are jumping on board.


----------



## Albake21

This one is so confusing. I love the solid black with gold combo and I love the red binding, but those two together is a very confusing choice.

Also those standard and axion models are very head scratching. It's like they threw a dart at a board of options.


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## cip 123

Albake21 said:


> This one is so confusing. I love the solid black with gold combo and I love the red binding, but those two together is a very confusing choice.
> 
> Also those standard and axion models are very head scratching. It's like they threw a dart at a board of options.


I don't see it as red, it looks like brown celluloid or whatever they're using which I think works. It'll probably look better in person.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

soul_lip_mike said:


> Man I was really hoping they would sell that blue ibanez Jake bowen has with the slanted single in the neck.



There’s apparently more from Ibanez to come on the 21st of this month. These will be the ‘non catalog’ models, so fun stuff like high end signature releases and such. Not sure if the JBM will get an update but I’m still hoping.


----------



## spacebard

cip 123 said:


> I don't see it as red, it looks like brown celluloid or whatever they're using which I think works. It'll probably look better in person.



It is not red, It's tortoise shell binding


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## BTS

soul_lip_mike said:


> Man I was really hoping they would sell that blue ibanez Jake bowen has with the slanted single in the neck.



I was hoping theyd do his red one...same layout, just red basswood body, roasted maple fb.


----------



## Hollowway

_MonSTeR_ said:


> There’s apparently more from Ibanez to come on the 21st of this month. These will be the ‘non catalog’ models, so fun stuff like high end signature releases and such. Not sure if the JBM will get an update but I’m still hoping.



that seems soooo long away at this point. Maybe there will be some leaks. I’m curious what’s left to show, and if there are any interesting bass things not yet released.


----------



## Sean777

Theres at least one JS coming on the 21st, possibly 2.... a new Jem or PIA is likely im guessing


----------



## Kaura

Musiscience said:


> I cringe so hard every time a a guy slaps a guitar with his wedding ring. No need to take it off but don't slap the poor thing with it. Hurts my soul.



If that's bad. Don't watch the video where some Youtuber plays a Clapton Strat that goes for 1,5 million USD with rings on his fretting hand.


----------



## Musiscience

Kaura said:


> If that's bad. Don't watch the video where some Youtuber plays a Clapton Strat that goes for 1,5 million USD with rings on his fretting hand.


Thanks for the trigger warning, I'll stay away!


----------



## spacebard

Another video of the RG5170B


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Musiscience said:


> I cringe so hard every time a a guy slaps a guitar with his wedding ring. No need to take it off but don't slap the poor thing with it. Hurts my soul.
> 
> Really hyped up for the rest of the release later this month. If rumors of an AZ tele are true, I might just have to buy a new guitar this year... Only hoping it is a traditional SS setup and not HH.



when I got my wedding band the jeweler also gave me a silicone one which I use for sports and guitar. Much more comfortable to play with that instead of a metal band on.


----------



## Albake21

spacebard said:


> Another video of the RG5170B



Huh, I guess the binding isn't red but more of the traditional orange/brown.


----------



## cardinal

I though I was being very unique ordering a custom Schecter last year with tortoise shell binding. Now a trendy thing?


----------



## StevenC

cardinal said:


> I though I was being very unique ordering a custom Schecter last year with tortoise shell binding. Now a trendy thing?


Now we just need them to start following your 8 string whammy trend.


----------



## Mboogie7

cardinal said:


> I though I was being very unique ordering a custom Schecter last year with tortoise shell binding. Now a trendy thing?



Given how gorgeous that guitar of yours is, I’d say you are the trend setter haha.


----------



## lewis

jesus christ. Worst year of Ibanez i can ever remember.
Half of this stuff is so cheap looking they are even ripping off Agile now?
now that IS cheap ffs.

Ordinarily I would love that purple one with maple fretboard - but even the execution of this one looks like a non brand chinese guitar I would have ordered off Aliexpress 3 years ago for $150


----------



## lewis

0rimus said:


> Aw man, why didn't they do this as a 7 string?
> View attachment 88480


Why does this GIO ffs look more interesting than literally every single other guitar they have released that caters for this style? Hilarious given Gios are like the budget shit.


----------



## lewis

spacebard said:


> No but they have made headless basses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1000S-PMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1000S-SFM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1005SMS-EMM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EHB1005SMS-MGM



With the typical crap fretboard choices and weak asf scale lengths.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

lewis said:


> jesus christ. Worst year of Ibanez i can ever remember.
> Half of this stuff is so cheap looking they are even ripping off Agile now?
> now that IS cheap ffs.
> 
> Ordinarily I would love that purple one with maple fretboard - but even the execution of this one looks like a non brand chinese guitar I would have ordered off Aliexpress 3 years ago for $150



Different strokes for different folks...


----------



## Steinmetzify

soul_lip_mike said:


> Man I was really hoping they would sell that blue ibanez Jake bowen has with the slanted single in the neck.



This was literally the only guitar from Ibanez I ever wanted after my RGA121. I’m REALLY hoping his sig gets updated to this.


----------



## BTS

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Different strokes for different folks...


Agree. I think the purple looks pretty good, and certainly better than the green/blue currently used on the model.


----------



## josh1

BTS said:


> Agree. I think the purple looks pretty good, and certainly better than the green/blue currently used on the model.


Oh man I absolutely adore the green one lol. It's the one Ibanez I must have someday.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...rg2103lbt-electric-guitar-brownish-sphalerite

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...-r9441f22g5-electric-guitar-natural-low-gloss


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Sugi JCs are the ugliest guitars Ibanez has ever made, and they've made some ugly fucking guitars.


----------



## Seabeast2000

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Sugi JCs are the ugliest guitars Ibanez has ever made, and they've made some ugly fucking guitars.



Is that what those ESP NAMM looking J Customs are?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Seabeast2000 said:


> Is that what those ESP NAMM looking J Customs are?



Yeah...


----------



## cardinal

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Sugi JCs are the ugliest guitars Ibanez has ever made, and they've made some ugly fucking guitars.



I would totally rock that brownish sphalerite one.


----------



## mlp187

I really like both of them but that pricing is fucking nuts.


----------



## nsimonsen

All I want is a RGA121 reissue


----------



## Leviathus

TheShreddinHand said:


> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...rg2103lbt-electric-guitar-brownish-sphalerite


This one looks like it belongs on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.


----------



## Vyn

I was expecting to be disappointed. But not this disappointed  565 kinda makes up for it? I think?


----------



## 27InchScale

Im surprised they have not expanded the XL line as it has seen a significant rise in popularity...


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

nsimonsen said:


> All I want is a RGA121 reissue



I had checked in with a dealer a few years ago about getting a group together for a special run on Prestige RGA's, and they basically said Ibanez had no interest in making RGAs in Japan. Few years later: AxePalace special run RGA J.Custom. So, perhaps there's still some small reason to hope.

Hardtail MIJ RGA 7-string. Please. I'll even pay J.Custom prices for one (provided no Tree of Life.)


----------



## noise in my mind

Wow, a lot of these look really gaudy.


----------



## c7spheres

- Ibanez and all these other companies should just make a webpage that shows all the new models so we can like, I dunno, see if we want to buy them or something. This trickle out and teaser stuff is annoying and just wastes everyones time. If I had a company with thousands of people/customer on standby waiting for the new products drop and I already knew what I was gonna be selling, then I would show them immediately so I could, I dunno, sell them? Imo, it's just a stupid game. I wonder how many people buy someone elses' product and then after the drop have buyer remorse.
- I hope what's on their site isn't already everything. Maybe more will come this summer.

edit: Oh, I guess Ibanez has put up a webpage with new 2021 models. Way to go Ibanez! They just didn't update the actual model pages yet with everything.


----------



## Hollowway

12th anniversary release of the SR7viiSC? Anyone? Let’s do this!  Seriously, I still want one. I’m hoping that there are some more wild bass things to be shown on the 21st. But I think it’s not likely.


----------



## StevenC

Hollowway said:


> 12th anniversary release of the SR7viiSC? Anyone? Let’s do this!  Seriously, I still want one. I’m hoping that there are some more wild bass things to be shown on the 21st. But I think it’s not likely.


Bass Workshop is consistently Ibanez's coolest product


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> With the typical crap fretboard choices and weak asf scale lengths.


Those are short scale versions of the regular scale EHB models. What's your point?


----------



## nsimonsen

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> I had checked in with a dealer a few years ago about getting a group together for a special run on Prestige RGA's, and they basically said Ibanez had no interest in making RGAs in Japan. Few years later: AxePalace special run RGA J.Custom. So, perhaps there's still some small reason to hope.
> 
> Hardtail MIJ RGA 7-string. Please. I'll even pay J.Custom prices for one (provided no Tree of Life.)



Yeah, I get the feeling they don't really care for the RGA line eh.

For real, a hardtail RGA 7 string would be golden!


----------



## BillCosby

Yeah, it's weird that they don't have any Prestige RGA 7s. My Axion Label RGA 7 kicks ass and easily holds up to my RG1527 (I got a good one, I guess), but I'd love to have a Prestige one.


----------



## lewis

Lemonbaby said:


> Those are short scale versions of the regular scale EHB models. What's your point?


My point is they still have not a single bass that gets even close to Dingwall scales - let alone matching them.

Even Gear4music are at least trying much longer bass scales with their in house brand ffs.


----------



## cardinal

lewis said:


> My point is they still have not a single bass that gets even close to Dingwall scales - let alone matching them.
> 
> Even Gear4music are at least trying much longer bass scales with their in house brand ffs.



The short scale basses can be useful for F# tuning though. You just tune them up to be in unison with the guitars. If Ibanez made a 6-string version of these, I'd probably get one to tune in unison with my 8-string guitars.


----------



## JimF

Just another person here LONGING for that Jake Bowen sig model. I'd love that, and the triangle inlay is much better than the cheesy moon on the previous ones.


----------



## Ben Pinkus

Another multi scale or a 27" 7 string would be lovely. Also some lefty basses ffs


----------



## Ben Pinkus

Another multi scale or a 27" 7 string would be lovely. Also some lefty basses ffs


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

noise in my mind said:


> Wow, a lot of these look really gaudy.



And not even in a good way- I love Ibanez-gaudy, the ToL and the body inlay they've done on a couple JCs? I'm all about it.
The crazy finishes with gold hardware and all that? Pour that shit right in my mouth.
JEMs? UVs? Sparkle finishes? I _literally_ cannot get enough.

But the finishes this year, especially on the Indo guitars, are a mess, imo. I legit thought some of these were people trolling at first, they clash so hard and look so ridiculous. Strange since they usually do a pretty good job on the aesthetics of the cheaper models.

Just my , if you're into 'em more power to you; glad you got some cool stuff this year- but it's definitely not for me.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

lewis said:


> My point is they still have not a single bass that gets even close to Dingwall scales - let alone matching them.
> 
> Even Gear4music are at least trying much longer bass scales with their in house brand ffs.



If you want Dingwall scale buy a Dingwall. It's not as if longer scale lengths automatically mean better, and that they're "not trying" or whatever. Ibanez is going for a more balanced instrument than Dingwall is.


----------



## StevenC

Ordacleaphobia said:


> And not even in a good way- I love Ibanez-gaudy, the ToL and the body inlay they've done on a couple JCs? I'm all about it.
> The crazy finishes with gold hardware and all that? Pour that shit right in my mouth.
> JEMs? UVs? Sparkle finishes? I _literally_ cannot get enough.
> 
> But the finishes this year, especially on the Indo guitars, are a mess, imo. I legit thought some of these were people trolling at first, they clash so hard and look so ridiculous. Strange since they usually do a pretty good job on the aesthetics of the cheaper models.
> 
> Just my , if you're into 'em more power to you; glad you got some cool stuff this year- but it's definitely not for me.


What the hell is that trans-fade-bevel-on-solid-black RGD?


----------



## lewis

cardinal said:


> The short scale basses can be useful for F# tuning though. You just tune them up to be in unison with the guitars. If Ibanez made a 6-string version of these, I'd probably get one to tune in unison with my 8-string guitars.


Ive already got a bass tuned in F unison though.


----------



## bostjan

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Ibanez is going for a more balanced instrument than Dingwall is.


How is that?


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

StevenC said:


> What the hell is that trans-fade-bevel-on-solid-black RGD?



That one, the PGM, and (sadly) the premium S were the ones that made me make sure these were real, actually


----------



## StevenC

Ordacleaphobia said:


> That one, the PGM, and (sadly) the premium S were the ones that made me make sure these were real, actually


Nah the new Fireman is cool as hell and Paul has been playing that one for ages now.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

StevenC said:


> Nah the new Fireman is cool as hell and Paul has been playing that one for ages now.



Not talking about the fireman- I'm referring to the mikro PGM.


----------



## StevenC

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Not talking about the fireman- I'm referring to the mikro PGM.


Oh, Europe didn't get a new Mikro PGM, but he's also been using those forever and we've had the blue/pink one already I guess.


----------



## possumkiller

Too bad they didn't do a plain black 7 string arizona model.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

bostjan said:


> How is that?



The super-stretched scale length on a Dingwall gives it a very distinct sound and feel. The Ibanez multiscale basses are less dramatic of a swing, and less of a deviation from "normal." On the EHB multiscale the A is 34", which makes it sort of evenly "centered" around a normal scale length, and the difference between lowest and highest on a 5-string is two inches. On a Dingwall the G is 34", everything lower is longer, and it's a three inch difference.

It's not better or worse on its face, it's just different. (And, to that point, Dingwall themselves use a shorter set of scale lengths on their Super J and Super P.) I think Ibanez is prioritizing ergonomics with the EHB, and is also making a calculation that the folks who insist on that super long scale lengths are going to want to buy a Dingwall anyways, and they're probably right. There are lots of bassists that really like what Ibanez is doing with the EHB's, but maybe down the road they'll come out with a super long stretch one too.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Too bad they didn't do a plain black 7 string arizona model.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 88582


Oh man I thought the black hss was a 6. This is a pickguard hss with 24 frets as well. That's fucking hot. This is my new goal.


----------



## bostjan

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> The super-stretched scale length on a Dingwall gives it a very distinct sound and feel. The Ibanez multiscale basses are less dramatic of a swing, and less of a deviation from "normal." On the EHB multiscale the A is 34", which makes it sort of evenly "centered" around a normal scale length, and the difference between lowest and highest on a 5-string is two inches. On a Dingwall the G is 34", everything lower is longer, and it's a three inch difference.
> 
> It's not better or worse on its face, it's just different. (And, to that point, Dingwall themselves use a shorter set of scale lengths on their Super J and Super P.) I think Ibanez is prioritizing ergonomics with the EHB, and is also making a calculation that the folks who insist on that super long scale lengths are going to want to buy a Dingwall anyways, and they're probably right. There are lots of bassists that really like what Ibanez is doing with the EHB's, but maybe down the road they'll come out with a super long stretch one too.



To me, it's all subjective. No pun intended, but words like "balanced" tend to throw me off. 

I think some people look at a Dingwall, look at the spec's and then assume that the bass is a giant hand cramp waiting to happen, but I dare people who assume that to actually play one. I've played a few (i.e. 3), and for me, they were way more comfortable than something like an Ibanez BTB or especially an SR. I'm sure some people would disagree, but I would bet most full-time bass players would prefer the Dingwall. I've also played other 37" scale basses, and those were all, as a rule, uncomfortable. So, it's got to have a lot to do with the way Dingwall gets the instrument to sit, with the bridge past your right shoulder and therefore the nut closer to your body.

Anyway, I didn't think you were crapping on Dingwall or anything- just wanted your take on what made them less balanced.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

I'm a full time bassist (~30 years worth) and strongly prefer just about anything over a Dingwall. I don't like how they feel and I don't like how they sound. I haven't played the EHB yet, but I've played similarly spaced multiscales and like them substantially more.

edit: jesus christ I forgot how old I was

You're totally right though, it's subjective. If you want the super-long scale length there's something out there for you. It's just not the thing Ibanez is trying to do with their multiscales. Doesn't make it better or worse.


----------



## bostjan

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> I'm a full time bassist (~30 years worth) and strongly prefer just about anything over a Dingwall.



Ok, to each their own, but that's a pretty sweepingly broad statement. To me, personally, it doesn't make sense. If you had said you prefer the feel of Ibanez basses, that's one thing, but to put it the way you put it is as if to say that Dingwall basses are garbage.

Personally, I'd like to see basses available at all different scale lengths for all different styles of players. Maybe you feel the same way.


----------



## ixlramp

A 37" scale is rather inconvenient due to severely restricting string choice, so i think it is okay that Ibanez do not do 37".

Looking at Fret Nation's list of manufacturer winding lengths, the longest widely available winding length is 38". Subtracting 1.5"-2" for saddle to ferrule results in a maximum scale length of 36"-36.5".

Unfortunately many manufacturers either go a little above 35", scared of customer reaction, or they go straight to the rather inconvenient 37" to try to compete with Dingwall.
I think what is needed is inbetween, approx 36" scale instruments, the added advantage is that 1 fret added to 34" is approx 36", so it maintains a familiar dimensional feel.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Just saw Jack Gardiner with an ARZ instead of his Strandberg
Brendth Brodtrager is playing an ARZ too lately
Looks like Ibby is giving an ARZ to every youtuber...or maybe it's just an incredible piece of gear
Haven't tried it but I would be more inclined to get a Suhr than an Ibby for that kind of specs


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

bostjan said:


> Ok, to each their own, but that's a pretty sweepingly broad statement. To me, personally, it doesn't make sense. If you had said you prefer the feel of Ibanez basses, that's one thing, but to put it the way you put it is as if to say that Dingwall basses are garbage.



They're fantastic instruments that I don't gel with in the slightest. Simple as that. 



> Personally, I'd like to see basses available at all different scale lengths for all different styles of players. Maybe you feel the same way.



Agreed 1000%.


----------



## Musiscience

possumkiller said:


> Oh man I thought the black hss was a 6. This is a pickguard hss with 24 frets as well. That's fucking hot. This is my new goal.



The 7 string Hyperion pickups also sounds sick. Just as good as the 6. Ibanez is making it hard to keep my promises not to buy more gear.


----------



## Leviathus

The black AZ7 is growin on me. Wonder if we'll see more Fendery colors by summer or next Jan.


----------



## lewis

bostjan said:


> Ok, to each their own, but that's a pretty sweepingly broad statement. To me, personally, it doesn't make sense. If you had said you prefer the feel of Ibanez basses, that's one thing, but to put it the way you put it is as if to say that Dingwall basses are garbage.
> 
> *Personally, I'd like to see basses available at all different scale lengths for all different styles of players. Maybe you feel the same way*.



Here, here


----------



## Mathemagician

Leviathus said:


> This one looks like it belongs on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.



Sixteenth Chapel* 




MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 88582



Anyone else not a fan of black/dark inlays on roasted maple? I’m not 100% sure I flat out prefer white either as it can sometimes be almost as hard to see. I don’t know how to resolve the visual issue either, bigger inlays?


----------



## cardinal

Black with a rosewood board might be my fav Strat color, and that's close enough (would probably put some cream dot stickers on the board over the black dots).


----------



## Zhysick

Mathemagician said:


> Sixteenth Chapel*



What? Are you kidding, right? I must have missed something...



Mathemagician said:


> Anyone else not a fan of black/dark inlays on roasted maple? I’m not 100% sure I flat out prefer white either as it can sometimes be almost as hard to see. I don’t know how to resolve the visual issue either, bigger inlays?



Nacar? Mother of pearl? I think it will be easier to see and would look cool over roasted maple.


----------



## lewis

Mathemagician said:


> Sixteenth Chapel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else not a *fan of black/dark inlays on roasted maple*? I’m not 100% sure I flat out prefer white either as it can sometimes be almost as hard to see. I don’t know how to resolve the visual issue either, bigger inlays?



I hate anything roasted maple and brown to begin with. Right there with you. Looks like flies on dogshit


----------



## Mathemagician

Zhysick said:


> What? Are you kidding, right? I must have missed something...



The whole reason his paintings look good is because of all the hard work and practice. The first 15 chapels didn’t look so hot. But he kept at it. That’s why we still talk about it today.


----------



## Zhysick

Mathemagician said:


> The whole reason his paintings look good is because of all the hard work and practice. The first 15 chapels didn’t look so hot. But he kept at it. That’s why we still talk about it today.



Alright, good one. That's a joke we cannot make in Spanish


----------



## cardinal

Man I was sure that was headed for a sixteenth-note joke.


----------



## Hollowway

The vast majority of bass players do not want a longer than normal scale bass. Sometimes we forget about how niche this site and our tastes are. Ibanez would probably make a 37" scale bass if they thought it would sell. Same as an 8 string with Floyd. (Which is what I want.) But, they don't, because there aren't a lot of people that would buy them. 

Besides, Dingwalls aren't even long scale. As long as we're measuring penis length, let's talk Quake basses. That's a real man's bass!


----------



## Vyn

Hollowway said:


> The vast majority of bass players do not want a longer than normal scale bass. Sometimes we forget about how niche this site and our tastes are. Ibanez would probably make a 37" scale bass if they thought it would sell. Same as an 8 string with Floyd. (Which is what I want.) But, they don't, because there aren't a lot of people that would buy them.
> 
> Besides, Dingwalls aren't even long scale. As long as we're measuring penis length, let's talk Quake basses. That's a real man's bass!



It's probably healthy for everyone on this forum to once and a while go into store or hang out with non-metal guitarists who make up the bulk of players to realise our preferences and use cases are actually niche as fuck.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Vyn said:


> It's probably healthy for everyone on this forum to once and a while go into store or hang out with non-metal guitarists who make up the bulk of players to realise our preferences and use cases are actually niche as fuck.



i went to an open jam once and those idiots had never even seen a headless seven string before. i was like do you idiots live under a fucking rock? i was never invited back.


----------



## Hollowway

diagrammatiks said:


> i went to an open jam once and those idiots had never even seen a headless seven string before. i was like do you idiots live under a fucking rock? i was never invited back.


 We are definitely The geekiest of geeks when it comes to this stuff.


----------



## Mathemagician

Vyn said:


> It's probably healthy for everyone on this forum to once and a while go into store or hang out with non-metal guitarists who make up the bulk of players to realise our preferences and use cases are actually niche as fuck.



Hey. Hey. Everyone needs 7string fanned fret Ever-trems which will of course be blocked and shotgun-wound semi-active pickups made of synthetic tonewoods.



diagrammatiks said:


> i went to an open jam once and those idiots had never even seen a headless seven string before. i was like do you idiots live under a fucking rock? i was never invited back.



I fucking died. This is A-1 delivery.


----------



## lewis

i disagree with this notion of "IF Ibanez thought they would sell"

Ibanez has made a metric fuck tonne over the years selling instruments to metal musicians. Now tell me how many metal bands are now using Dingwall basses?. Because after doing tours, doing a whole bunch of research, and keeping an eye on bands I personally like, I see a plethora of Dingwalls as far as the eye can see.

the fact is they WOULD sell - Ibanez just choose to not even try.
This reminds me of the xiphos situation. After they were discontinued a fair few years back, there was all this fanboi defensive talk about how "they dont sell anyway - they are niche blah blah"

I got my custom xiphos swirled, and shared the project everywhere online. After so much incredible feedback it encouraged plenty of xiphos owners to share theirs. It was awesome seeing a new wave of xiphos lovers all coming together again - which in tern created new hype and plenty of "new fans" of the shape.

fast track to more recent times and Balaguer capitalises and sells his own siiiiick version (tartarus), and that seems to sell just fine. Snooze you lose Ibanez.

People just create ways to defend Ibanez.


----------



## JimF

I could be wrong (very wrong) but I didn't think that the Ibanez bass line was as metal orientated as their guitar line... Hence why they probably don't feel the need to compete with Dingwall.

Also, whilst tons of people may love the Xiphos, at the end of the day there will be a financial reason why they chose not to continue selling that model. Whether it was falling sales figures, or was waste from the body blanks; perhaps the production line could produce 3 Strat shape guitars in the same timescale or for the same budget. Total conjecture here, but the Xiphos is a large guitar, meaning a larger hardcase needs to be stocked/produced. A larger guitar takes up more room, meaning less guitars in each shipment, less profit per shipment etc etc etc. If shipping costs X to send 100 RGs, and costs X to send 75 Xiphos guitars, its a mounting case against the pointy axe.

Remember that guitar forum users are such a small part of the market, for every forum user fawning over the Xiphos, there's probably 5 guitarists that walked into a guitar shop, and bought an Iron Label RG or S. 

I had a sideline hobby business that had a social media presence with plenty of interaction, followers, people commenting on the products etc, but when it came down to actual sales, it was rarely the vocal followers that placed the orders. I think we're all guilty of saying "I'd love that!" or "Can't wait to order that when it lands" and then when the item becomes available our voices fall silent.

I don't think you can compare Balaguer to Ibanez. Sales figures viewed as a success by Balaguer would probably be viewed as an abject failure by a company the size of Ibanez.

Then again, we're all just guessing. Perhaps a new manager's family were killed by a runaway truck full of Xiphos guitars and they can't bear to see them in the catalogues! 

(Just to clarify - no hate to Balageur, I'd love one)


----------



## _MonSTeR_

You can say that people create ways to defend Ibanez, maybe this is one of those ways , but similarly, ‘people just create ways to state they know better than the commercial team at Ibanez’ ...

You say you see a plethora of bands playing Dingwall bases, I’m sure that’s true, but whilst looking at who is playing what bass is a bit of fun for you, a pass time or a hobby, Ibanez will have someone whose literal job it is to do just that. They report in to production management who decide what they’re going to build in the next run or to develop down the line or what have you.

Someone somewhere, whose livelihood depends on getting these things right, says that based on ibanez’s business model it’s not worth the level of risk vs return to warrant making a Dingwall scale bass or a Xiphos based shape or a new Jake Bowen 27 fretter at the moment.

It might work for Belaguer’s business model and more power to them for that, it obviously works for Dingwall if you’re seeing a plethora of bands using them, but the numbers man at Ibanez, well he says no...


----------



## lewis

JimF said:


> I could be wrong (very wrong) *but I didn't think that the Ibanez bass line was as metal orientated as their guitar line*... Hence why they probably don't feel the need to compete with Dingwall.
> 
> Also, whilst tons of people may love the Xiphos, at the end of the day there will be a financial reason why they chose not to continue selling that model. Whether it was falling sales figures, or was waste from the body blanks; perhaps the production line could produce 3 Strat shape guitars in the same timescale or for the same budget. Total conjecture here, but the Xiphos is a large guitar, meaning a larger hardcase needs to be stocked/produced. A larger guitar takes up more room, meaning less guitars in each shipment, less profit per shipment etc etc etc. If shipping costs X to send 100 RGs, and costs X to send 75 Xiphos guitars, its a mounting case against the pointy axe.
> 
> Remember that guitar forum users are such a small part of the market, for every forum user fawning over the Xiphos, there's probably 5 guitarists that walked into a guitar shop, and bought an Iron Label RG or S.
> 
> I had a sideline hobby business that had a social media presence with plenty of interaction, followers, people commenting on the products etc, but when it came down to actual sales, it was rarely the vocal followers that placed the orders. I think we're all guilty of saying "I'd love that!" or "Can't wait to order that when it lands" and then when the item becomes available our voices fall silent.
> 
> I don't think you can compare Balaguer to Ibanez. Sales figures viewed as a success by Balaguer would probably be viewed as an abject failure by a company the size of Ibanez.
> 
> Then again, we're all just guessing. Perhaps a new manager's family were killed by a runaway truck full of Xiphos guitars and they can't bear to see them in the catalogues!
> 
> (Just to clarify - no hate to Balageur, I'd love one)



1. But what would be wrong with adding one extra long scale bass amongst the line just to increase the options? Its not exclusively "metal" that people need extra long scale lengths.
Half the baritone guitars ive come across have been more for BLues or whatever.
2. There are plenty of other, much smaller body shaped guitars Ibanez own the IP to and refuse to sell anymore too - their reluctance to even try headless models in addition - even on like a pre order basis or limited run, due to worrying too much about their headstock/branding stuff , is another thing that stops their larger guitars from saving abit of space interms of cases etc
- as a sidenote, when they were still selling things like Xiphos's, they started to get super basic and super shit looking. Like no thought or care went into it, so is it any wonder why they started drying up on sales? Maybe if they worked as hard on making them snazzy every year like they do their RG line, maybe they wouldnt have failed so hard?
Xiphos and their other,older star/pointy shapes, would work excellently in their "Axiom" / Iron Label range. They just refuse to try. Look at the options Balaguer offer in comparison
Solar guitars seem to have no problem selling Vs, Es and the like.

p.s my main point was about the basses so not sure how it turned into mostly talking about Xiphos's haha

to add, money men controlling the money at companies does NOT mean they are experts.

Look at sports ventures for a start. Any sports team controlled by non sport people, mostly look like a total disaster.


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> My point is they still have not a single bass that gets even close to Dingwall scales - let alone matching them.
> 
> Even Gear4music are at least trying much longer bass scales with their in house brand ffs.


So your theory is that the market for 37" scales is so big that Ibanez absolutely needs to do this? You might have noticed that Dingwall went the other way around and introduced 35" models to sell to a bigger audience.



Hollowway said:


> Besides, Dingwalls aren't even long scale. As long as we're measuring penis length, let's talk Quake basses. That's a real man's bass!


Exact Lee. Dingwall and their 37" sissy scale length.


----------



## lewis

Lemonbaby said:


> So your theory is that the market for 37" scales is so big that Ibanez absolutely needs to do this? You might have noticed that *Dingwall went the other way around and introduced 35" models to sell to a bigger audience.*
> 
> 
> Exact Lee. Dingwall and their 37" sissy scale length.



whats so hard for you to understand with my point?
Ibanez = stick rigid to limited options interms of scale
Dingwall = offer all sorts of scales to cater to wider audience


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> whats so hard for you to understand with my point?
> Ibanez = stick rigid to limited options interms of scale
> Dingwall = offer all sorts of scales to cater to wider audience


You don't WANT to understand, right? Ibanez is doing business. Big business.

Basses with 34" and 35" = >99% of the market
Basses with 37" or more = niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiche


----------



## Vyn

Lemonbaby said:


> You don't WANT to understand, right? Ibanez is doing business. Big business.
> 
> Basses with 34" and 35" = >99% of the market
> Basses with 37" or more = niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiche



This 100%. Why cater to 1% when maybe only 10% of that 1% (which is 0.1% of the whole market) will buy your product when of that 99% you're guaranteed at least 5%-10% of the total market. It's up to two more orders of magnitude worth of sales just by offering something that the majority want.


----------



## A-Branger

Lemonbaby said:


> You don't WANT to understand, right? Ibanez is doing business. Big business.
> 
> Basses with 34" and 35" = >99% of the market
> Basses with 37" or more = niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiche


^ yuppp

also remember Ibanez basses had a lot of influence in the jazz market. Most of the signature players over the years have been jazz players, with a couple of metal ones. 

we are such a tinny niche compared to everyone else out there. Bass world specially if you look at how much Fender (and Fender style basses and/or copies) dominate the market

have played multiscale 37" basses including dingwalls and owned one and also Ibanez basses all my life including a 33" scale one too. I muhc muhc rather have the low end be 35" as the longest. This is jsut me because I only play in B standard 5 strings

the added leght of a 37" is not hard to play, actualy I was surprised on how easy a Diongwal was to play. But I do remember when I got my 33" how much eassier and better was than my 34" and specially after playing a 35" at a store

same thing with guitrs. Some folks hate Gibson scale lenght, even that its so close to a 25.5", yet they feel "cramped", or people rulling out a 27.5" multiscale because "my hands are too small"... I got one and I find barely no difference compared to a regular 25.5" in terms of stretching, at least not enough to justify a "nope" when buying one.

my problem with a 37" bass was string choices. Main brands you only have 3 choices in one string size and 90% of the time has to be ordered, you cant walk to a store and get one. And even still it doenst sit right at the low B. That itself trowed me off. I didnt felt much gain on tension, as added tension was then swept away by the new found fingering position (you play closer to the enck=less tension, closer to bridge=more.... in feel) 

sound might be a plus, but this is subjective. I also never had an issue with the sound of my old basses, not even the 33" which I loved


----------



## JimF

lewis said:


> Solar guitars seem to have no problem selling Vs, Es and the like.
> p.s my main point was about the basses so not sure how it turned into mostly talking about Xiphos's haha



My Xiphos essay was just examples of how certain decisions may be made in a company that deals with the sale of mass produced guitars.
Regarding the Solar comparison, Solar are not attempting the same volume of sales as Ibanez. Exaggerating numbers to make a point, but if there is a small niche market of say 200 buyers with cash in hand who actively want to purchase an Explorer type guitar, a smaller company selling 1000 guitars a year would look much more favourable on that potential market (which would equate to 20% of their turnover) than a company selling 10,000 guitars a year (where it would be 2% of their turnover). Same point as I raised regarding Balageur. 




lewis said:


> Look at sports ventures for a start. Any sports team controlled by non sport people, mostly look like a total disaster.



I think the main reason that happens is because already-failing teams get bought by people who take too much money out of the business for themselves and then realise its still not turning a profit. If they were viable businesses before the non sports people took over they wouldn't be up for sale at a price that attracts corporate profit vultures.




lewis said:


> to add, money men controlling the money at companies does NOT mean they are experts



This is a bit confusing, are you referring to the people making the business decisions? Or are you referring to the "accountants reducing budgets" scenario? By that, I mean the sort of situation that reduces quality, changes manufacturing plants to cheaper locations etc ("Hey guys, why are we using OFR bridges when these other ones are cheaper and do the same thing, and we make more money" etc). At the end of the year, Mr Costcutter has increased profit margins by 4% by going back to off-brand hardware.
But your statement of "money men are not experts" how are they in that line of work? Larger guitar companies want to make profits over everything else. 
How many guitar companies can you name that sell guitars that aren't playable off the shelf, or where they're only good once you swap hardware?
Compare that to how many guitar companies you can name that produce top quality instruments and sell them at a loss?

We're getting sidetrack massively by semantics. I see your points and agree with you. It would be nice to see brands such as Ibanez diversify their product portfolio. I'd love to see more Xiphos and star type guitars on the market. Ormsby are having success with their take on the style. But a company the size of Ibanez probably doesn't see any benefit to diversification such as this.


----------



## lewis

JimF said:


> My Xiphos essay was just examples of how certain decisions may be made in a company that deals with the sale of mass produced guitars.
> Regarding the Solar comparison, Solar are not attempting the same volume of sales as Ibanez. Exaggerating numbers to make a point, but if there is a small niche market of say 200 buyers with cash in hand who actively want to purchase an Explorer type guitar, a smaller company selling 1000 guitars a year would look much more favourable on that potential market (which would equate to 20% of their turnover) than a company selling 10,000 guitars a year (where it would be 2% of their turnover). Same point as I raised regarding Balageur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the main reason that happens is because already-failing teams get bought by people who take too much money out of the business for themselves and then realise its still not turning a profit. If they were viable businesses before the non sports people took over they wouldn't be up for sale at a price that attracts corporate profit vultures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit confusing, are you referring to the people making the business decisions? Or are you referring to the "accountants reducing budgets" scenario? By that, I mean the sort of situation that reduces quality, changes manufacturing plants to cheaper locations etc ("Hey guys, why are we using OFR bridges when these other ones are cheaper and do the same thing, and we make more money" etc). At the end of the year, Mr Costcutter has increased profit margins by 4% by going back to off-brand hardware.
> But your statement of "money men are not experts" how are they in that line of work? Larger guitar companies want to make profits over everything else.
> How many guitar companies can you name that sell guitars that aren't playable off the shelf, or where they're only good once you swap hardware?
> Compare that to how many guitar companies you can name that produce top quality instruments and sell them at a loss?
> 
> *We're getting sidetrack massively by semantics. I see your points and agree with you. It would be nice to see brands such as Ibanez diversify their product portfolio. I'd love to see more Xiphos and star type guitars on the market. Ormsby are having success with their take on the style. But a company the size of Ibanez probably doesn't see any benefit to diversification such as this*.



Spot on


----------



## Ibanez922

AGAIN......
NO FUCKING NEW 8 STRINGS...............


----------



## lewis

what about the argument that IF Ibanez are as massive as everyone is rightly saying, its much less risky for them to put out some "niche" models and create a new, larger market?

People on the internet are so easy to dupe. All this talk that "this and this is all niche" could be flipped on its head inside 6 months if massive companies, with the right marketing, decided to do it.

my point is - Ibanez dont seem to want to


----------



## lewis

Ibanez922 said:


> AGAIN......
> NO FUCKING NEW 8 STRINGS...............


THIS


----------



## lewis

I think im ultimately Im just bored of the SAME guitar portfolio from the same companies over and over and over and over again every single year.

No one is trying anything new anymore.
Just rehashed nonsense.
Realistically, I dont want 15 of the same guitar made out of different materials - or even worse not but a different colour


----------



## Repo251

Ibanez are assholes! About 2 guitars in left handed and none with a HSS combo... I can’t stand them. I won’t buy another axe from them...


----------



## MrWulf

Ah yes, the classic "there are more than a few posts that refuted my points so i'm just going to quote the one that agreed with me and pretend that everyone is a sheep" 

Carry on, SSO.


----------



## lewis

MrWulf said:


> Ah yes, the classic "there are more than a few posts that refuted my points so i'm just going to quote the one that agreed with me and pretend that everyone is a sheep"
> 
> Carry on, SSO.



Talking about sheep?
yep, username checks out


----------



## Musiscience

I had such a weird dream last night. Ibanez catalog had leaked and they announced a new series that was just squares with RG hardware. Like the picture below, but a square and with pastel colors + an edge trem and etc. Let's just hope it was not a premonition.


----------



## TrevorT

lewis said:


> Realistically, I dont want 15 of the same guitar made out of different materials - or even worse not but a different colour



This is actually exactly what I want. Just give me all the RG652s and RG752s and I'd be a happy man lol.


----------



## adrianb

I really want an AZ22047ICM or PWF!


----------



## cardinal

Musiscience said:


> I had such a weird dream last night. Ibanez catalog had leaked and they announced a new series that was just squares with RG hardware. Like the picture below, but a square and with pastel colors + an edge trem and etc. Let's just hope it was not a premonition.



Im sure Ibanez would add burls and bevels.


----------



## Musiscience

cardinal said:


> Im sure Ibanez would add burls and bevels.


My subconscious wouldn't allow it.


----------



## devastone

I dig the new Reb Beach-ish one, specs are great, but it's a Premium, not sure how to feel about that. With the specs it'll probably be pushing $2k, but MII... I have trouble coughing up that much for something not MIJ or 'merican.


----------



## odibrom

cardinal said:


> Im sure Ibanez would add burls and bevels.


Although sometimes it may look like so, Ibanez ain't Kiesel... and they do make some classics...

Now, it kind of feels sad to read all this rant about a brand not making the guitars ONE or TWO think they should be doing... it's almost like "old man shouting at clouds"...

... os cães ladram e a caravana passa... yeah, google this one... 

This to say that, if one ain't happy with the Ibanez catalogue, well, better luck next brand... maybe Schecter has something for you, or ESP, or Fender, or your local Luthier...?


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> what about the argument that IF Ibanez are as massive as everyone is rightly saying, its much less risky for them to put out some "niche" models and create a new, larger market?


The more you'd start to focus on niche requests, the more you get in trouble. Makes no sense at all to fight against custom shops or specialized established brands.

P1: "We want 37inch scales. Five strings. In black. Like InstrumentX"
Ibanez: "OK, here's your 37inch bass. In black."
P2: "Fuck that. We need multiscale. Like InstrumentY. In blue."
P1: "No, multiscale sucks."
Ibanez: "OK, here's a 35"-37" multiscale. In blue. And we'll keep that straight 37inch as well."
P1: "But the fretboard needs to be maple."
P2: "Straight fret is at 9th fret, I need that to on 7th."
P3: "Fuck that, 5th is much better. Plus one inch shorter scale on the high string. And in neon yellow."
Ibanez: "We'll keep the straight at 9th. But we add neon yellow. Maple fretboards only with light colours. How about light grey?"
P1: "Fuck that 37" bass if the fretboard is brown. I'll buy InstrumentX."
P2: "Fuck that, Ibanez just does the same shit as everyone else. I'll buy InstrumentY"
P3: "Fuck that neon yellow if the straight is at 9th. InstrumentZ does the exact instrument i want."
Ibanez: "Hey, wait guys. Who did we create those instruments for?"
P4: "Me, me, me! I'll take one.............. Wait, what? You don't use AngströmZ Pickups? Fuck that."


----------



## lewis

Lemonbaby said:


> The more you'd start to focus on niche requests, the more you get in trouble. Makes no sense at all to fight against custom shops or specialized established brands.
> 
> P1: "We want 37inch scales. Five strings. In black. Like InstrumentX"
> Ibanez: "OK, here's your 37inch bass. In black."
> P2: "Fuck that. We need multiscale. Like InstrumentY. In blue."
> P1: "No, multiscale sucks."
> Ibanez: "OK, here's a 35"-37" multiscale. In blue. And we'll keep that straight 37inch as well."
> P1: "But the fretboard needs to be maple."
> P2: "Straight fret is at 9th fret, I need that to on 7th."
> P3: "Fuck that, 5th is much better. Plus one inch shorter scale on the high string. And in neon yellow."
> Ibanez: "We'll keep the straight at 9th. But we add neon yellow. Maple fretboards only with light colours. How about light grey?"
> P1: "Fuck that 37" bass if the fretboard is brown. I'll buy InstrumentX."
> P2: "Fuck that, Ibanez just does the same shit as everyone else. I'll buy InstrumentY"
> P3: "Fuck that neon yellow if the straight is at 9th. InstrumentZ does the exact instrument i want."
> Ibanez: "Hey, wait guys. Who did we create those instruments for?"
> P4: "Me, me, me! I'll take one.............. Wait, what? You don't use AngströmZ Pickups? Fuck that."



What you have just listed, is exactly what everyone has just said about the 2021 range so whats the difference?


----------



## _MonSTeR_

I just want the 92 catalog range back please. Swirled JEMs and Japanese made RGs in multiple pickup configurations and about 37 different colours.


----------



## MrWulf

"Everyone"


----------



## kisielk

I don't understand why on their high end hardtails they don't use the Tight End bridge, it's IMO much superior to the Gibraltar and definitely better than these mono-rail style bridges they are putting on now.


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> What you have just listed, is exactly what everyone has just said about the 2021 range so whats the difference?


This forum is very obviously the picky niche user who wants cheaper versions of Dingwalls and 8 string trems.

We make up almost none of the guitars they actually sell and giving us what we want won't sell them a significant number more guitars.

Ibanez making every possible guitar doesn't increase the number of guitars that will be sold, it just increases the price of each guitar.

Ibanez can only expand a market by making a very broadly appealing specification of guitar. See for example the RG2228. It's a fairly reasonable compromise of what people want in an 8, but there is a laundry list of complaints like yours about it. Yet it has sold better than every other 8 string.


----------



## kisielk

lewis said:


> what about the argument that IF Ibanez are as massive as everyone is rightly saying, its much less risky for them to put out some "niche" models and create a new, larger market?
> 
> People on the internet are so easy to dupe. All this talk that "this and this is all niche" could be flipped on its head inside 6 months if massive companies, with the right marketing, decided to do it.
> 
> my point is - Ibanez dont seem to want to


It's easier to let others take the risk and see what is trending and then get into the market. See eg: AZ series.


----------



## Ibanez Rules

devastone said:


> I dig the new Reb Beach-ish one, specs are great, but it's a Premium, not sure how to feel about that. With the specs it'll probably be pushing $2k, but MII... I have trouble coughing up that much for something not MIJ or 'merican.



I had a big reservation about ordering just 1, but I did to just see what the level of quality will be. But I doubt much has changed. Indo is always fast and wet which means, sure it's got EVO frets but by the time the neck shrinks you have to shave off half the ball end to flush them, depending on how good the hands were that did them that might be a good thing. But the price point is up there for MII with a 1mm koa veneer. If it was an actual top I might feel different.

It's a covid year release, don't expect the moon. I've made my gripes about the lack of 7 strings and S models but they'll fall on deaf ears. It's like they only want the AZ and RG to succeed anymore. But half that I put on the limited production, S models take longer and when you're running at minimum capacity for distancing and maximum demand because China is still putting pressure on the allocations, it's understandable.


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> What you have just listed, is exactly what everyone has just said about the 2021 range so whats the difference?


Maybe you're right and Ibanez will go bankrupt, because 85 guys on an Internet forum don't like their guitars and spend their money elsewhere. Maybe you're not.

Edit: looking at the additions to the lineup and artist section over the alst years, they seem to have identified acoustics as an important growth factor. Which makes total sense because their market share is probably close to zero at the moment.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

All this grump and here I am just waiting to see that "in stock" pop up on Rich's site so I can throw money at one of the new RGs as fast as humanly possible.


----------



## duffbeer33

The new Burgundy Metallic color on the RG5121 is cool. But I was hoping they'd consider adding some more versatility to that guitar. Seems like a bit of a one trick pony with the fishman moderns but no additional push-pull pots for coil splitting. 

The RGR5221 is another one that has some great looking features, but I'm hoping for any color besides that bright orange.


----------



## lewis

Lemonbaby said:


> *Maybe you're right and Ibanez will go bankrupt, because 85 guys on an Internet forum don't like their guitars and spend their money elsewhere. Maybe you're not.*
> 
> Edit: looking at the additions to the lineup and artist section over the alst years, they seem to have identified acoustics as an important growth factor. Which makes total sense because their market share is probably close to zero at the moment.



what a baby. Way to contribute.
This is the forum equivalent of "you had a small dick anyway"


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Just want a headless 8. That is all. I already have some but Ibanez making one would be sick


----------



## Backsnack

bzhang9 said:


> No sure why they got rid of the S5527 and S6527s so quickly but they were sick. Would rather take those than AZ7s at $2k price point. MM7 will be 2800-3k which is too much


Why would anyone pay $2k for an Ibanez when you could get a Kiesel with a handful of eye candy options for that much?


----------



## Neon_Knight_

OP missed the new 7-string RGA (RGA742FM-TGF). Very disappointing range of RGAs at the moment (6 and 7 string) - only one model outside of the standard range and that's an Axion. Who would have guessed it started out as a Prestige-only line.  
https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rga742fm_1p_03.html


----------



## cip 123

Everyone wants different specs, no one likes the colours, they're made in the wrong place.

Déjà vu.


----------



## DeathCubeK

this is the most boring model year for ibanez in ages.


----------



## cardinal

Well I like the AZ seven strings a lot and am glad they released them. Unfortunately for Ibanez I doubt I'll get one because I haven't played a 7 in a while, but still, I assume others will buy them.


----------



## Dayn

I don't mind the list. I love the two purple guitars with maple fretboards, but for the first time in my life, I'm after a 6-string with a floating bridge, not a 7-string. It's killing me that the 6-string is a hardtail.


----------



## Neon_Knight_

Rynphos said:


> These new RGDs started as interesting, now they're on the tacky side.
> Purple RGs with maple necks are yummy.


Agreed. The Prestige Uppercut a few years ago was the pinnacle for me (plain satin black finish with BKP Aftermaths).


----------



## Zhysick

Backsnack said:


> Why would anyone pay $2k for an Ibanez when you could get a Kiesel with a handful of eye candy options for that much?



Maybe because that one doesn't like Kiesel's neck profile but likes Ibanezs (Ibanezes? Ibanezii? ) neck profile so... why whould you pay 1500$ for something that you don't like when you can pay 2000$ for something that you like?


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## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> what a baby. Way to contribute.
> This is the forum equivalent of "you had a small dick anyway"


Listen up Nancy. It's not my fault you don't know how a large scale business works and you keep whining how Ibanez refuses to sell you a Dingwall bass. Go and buy a Dingwall, end of the story.


----------



## Vyn

Backsnack said:


> Why would anyone pay $2k for an Ibanez when you could get a Kiesel with a handful of eye candy options for that much?



Because if you have a problem with the quality of the Ibanez, you can actually return it/get your money back without having to fight tooth and nail.


----------



## c7spheres

lewis said:


> i disagree with this notion of "IF Ibanez thought they would sell"
> 
> Ibanez has made a metric fuck tonne over the years selling instruments to metal musicians. Now tell me how many metal bands are now using Dingwall basses?. Because after doing tours, doing a whole bunch of research, and keeping an eye on bands I personally like, I see a plethora of Dingwalls as far as the eye can see.
> 
> the fact is they WOULD sell - Ibanez just choose to not even try.
> This reminds me of the xiphos situation. After they were discontinued a fair few years back, there was all this fanboi defensive talk about how "they dont sell anyway - they are niche blah blah"
> 
> I got my custom xiphos swirled, and shared the project everywhere online. After so much incredible feedback it encouraged plenty of xiphos owners to share theirs. It was awesome seeing a new wave of xiphos lovers all coming together again - which in tern created new hype and plenty of "new fans" of the shape.
> 
> fast track to more recent times and Balaguer capitalises and sells his own siiiiick version (tartarus), and that seems to sell just fine. Snooze you lose Ibanez.
> 
> People just create ways to defend Ibanez.


...


- I normally would disagree with this but I think you may be right. Ibanez just don't care and are doing their own thing, imo. Which is fine for them and sucks for us. 

- I gaurantee the Xiphos, Dingwall type basses, and Rga Prestiges would sell a ton more than all those other bizzare basses and guitars that seem to keep sticking around... somehow. 
- Who is buying these things? I never see them around, anywhere. You have to seek them out to find them in a real consumers' hands. 

- I'm guessing they don't do it becase they just can't tool up to crank them out fast enough and still be profitable. 

- I've been trying to get them to make somthing similar to my custom Ed Roman RGA for 20 years. They don't wanna do it. Niether does anyone else. Everyone likes the guitar, nobody wants to build it.


----------



## SpaceDock

Wow, RG5000 series with stainless frets, black Hipshot hardware, Duncan Jupiter pickups, and staggered tuners! Ibanez finally listened to what I wanted.













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__ SpaceDock
__ Jan 5, 2021


















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__ SpaceDock
__ Jan 5, 2021


















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__ SpaceDock
__ Jan 5, 2021







Too bad this is all lies and only neck/body are original.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Backsnack said:


> Why would anyone pay $2k for an Ibanez when you could get a Kiesel with a handful of eye candy options for that much?



Because Jeff Kiesel doesn't work at Ibanez, and that's a good enough selling point for me.


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## TheBolivianSniper

SpaceDock said:


> Wow, RG5000 series with stainless frets, black Hipshot hardware, Duncan Jupiter pickups, and staggered tuners! Ibanez finally listened to what I wanted.
> 
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> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
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> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
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> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
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> Too bad this is all lies and only neck/body are original.



MY MAN!

I haven't seen a single production guitar this year that I haven't wanted to mod to hell and back. At this point all the guitars I own either have massive electronics overhauls or have them planned and all of them are getting new hardware once I feel like installing it. Feels good not wanting to buy a brand new expensive guitar honestly.


----------



## mlp187

@SpaceDock my god that is hot as hell


----------



## Hollowway

@lewis, maybe this will put it into perspective for too. I understand that you really want a 34-37” bass. I do, too. But I also want a fretless bass where the fretboard runs through the end of the body, like a Marleaux Diva, a Ritter, and a Stradi. Those are actually very well respected designs that command a high price. I also want an 8 and 10 string double course bass, like Schecter and others make. And outside of me, there are a number of other bass players that really enjoy certain basses with specific specs (string spacing at the bridge, string spacing at the nut, pickup arrangement, fretless, left handed, etc). So it’s not that Ibanez makes all the possible basses, and are obstinately avoiding making one style. It’s that they make a few styles out of dozens of styles that would sell really well. Who knows why they choose one over another. But it comes down to actual people making these decisions. And those people can be swayed with enough passion and energy. If you really want to get a Dingwall length bass from Ibanez, you should contact them, and make them see what you think they’re missing. Because right now they’re keeping an eye on a crapload of genres, not just metal. So make some noise to the company, and maybe they’ll release one. If not, it could be years before one of the decision makers chooses that particular spec out of the dozens of others, and runs with it.

I guess it would be like me saying I’ve been watching what you wear, and I notice that you don’t have any white and blue striped shirts. Why are you avoiding them? I know lots of cool dudes wearing them. You might say, “well, I have a crap load of shirts, and there are a crap load of other ones I don’t have. I guess I could buy a white and blue striped one. But there are lots of nice shirts, and I just can’t one one of each.”


----------



## diagrammatiks

why don't you just buy a dingwall...


----------



## ZXIIIT

The GRGR131EXBKF totally has my attention.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

c7spheres said:


> ...
> 
> - I gaurantee the Xiphos, Dingwall type basses, and Rga Prestiges would sell a ton more than all those other bizzare basses and guitars that seem to keep sticking around... somehow.



But would you actually guarantee it, with your livelihood and maybe your industry reputation? Because that’s what the guy making these decisions has to do, several months in advance of current trends and this year in a global economy affected by a pandemic



c7spheres said:


> ...
> - Who is buying these things? I never see them around, anywhere. You have to seek them out to find them in a real consumers' hands.
> 
> - I'm guessing they don't do it becase they just can't tool up to crank them out fast enough and still be profitable.



You could say the same of any gear! I’ve not seen anyone use a Gibson Les Paul since the last GnR video I watched for nostalgia’s sake... and I’ve never seen anyone ever buy a Kiesel anywhere other than this site or the company’s own social media... You have to seek them out to see them in real consumers hands. 

Whereas the team at Ibanez have access to real world accurate sales figures of what sold last year and what dealers didn’t order, plus as much real world market intelligence as they can get their hands on.

Not being able to make enough of the cool ones fast enough to turn a profit might also be a part of it though. That’s absolutely true. What we all have to remember is that it’s all a numbers game at the end of the day, one fuelled by a passion for guitars, yes. But a numbers game nonetheless.


----------



## JimF

Hollowway said:


> I guess it would be like me saying I’ve been watching what you wear, and I notice that you don’t have any white and blue striped shirts. Why are you avoiding them? I know lots of cool dudes wearing them. You might say, “well, I have a crap load of shirts, and there are a crap load of other ones I don’t have. I guess I could buy a white and blue striped one. But there are lots of nice shirts, and I just can’t one one of each.”



I would only buy white & blue striped shirts if they had stainless buttons.


----------



## lurè

Shame on me for thinking 2021 would have been the year of the S series re-launch.


----------



## Zhysick

ZXIIIT said:


> The GRGR131EXBKF totally has my attention.



Because it's growling?


----------



## Musiscience

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Because Jeff Kiesel


Fixed


----------



## bostjan

Curse Ibanez for not making a swirled pink, red, and white Valentines-Day edition Heart-shaped triple neck guitar/bass/mandolin where the guitar is an 8 string with a 30" scale, with 27 stainless frets, with a melted maple/ebony fretboard, and a Kahler trem, the bass is multiscale 35-37" ten string with five doubled courses and a wenge fretboard that is fretless above the 12th fret, and the mandolin is a five string multiscale 14-16" with a maple fretboard! Made in Japan, obviously ... and all for under $1200! 

Seriously, though, from my perspective, as much as I'm into super-long scale basses, if Ibanez made a 37" scale bass, I probably wouldn't give it a second look, because I don't particularly like Ibanez's string spacing, nor their electronics, that much. Plus there are a handful of budget brands that already make (off and on) extended scale basses that fit the I-don't-want-to-pay-that-much-for-a-Dingwall niche.

Regarding their guitars, I think I had predicted that they would do something new and different, and most people wouldn't like it that much. Maybe I was at least half-wrong, if people like the AZ7, but I'll wait until a few actual buyers comment.


----------



## odibrom

People ranting over a brand's catalogue should be done at the "Why are you mad?" thread...


----------



## bostjan

odibrom said:


> People ranting over a brand's catalogue should be done at the "Why are you mad?" thread...


Sorry, I thought that was the primary purpose of the entire site.


----------



## c7spheres

_MonSTeR_ said:


> But would you actually guarantee it, with your livelihood and maybe your industry reputation? Because that’s what the guy making these decisions has to do, several months in advance of current trends and this year in a global economy affected by a pandemic
> 
> 
> 
> You could say the same of any gear! I’ve not seen anyone use a Gibson Les Paul since the last GnR video I watched for nostalgia’s sake... and I’ve never seen anyone ever buy a Kiesel anywhere other than this site or the company’s own social media... You have to seek them out to see them in real consumers hands.
> 
> Whereas the team at Ibanez have access to real world accurate sales figures of what sold last year and what dealers didn’t order, plus as much real world market intelligence as they can get their hands on.
> 
> Not being able to make enough of the cool ones fast enough to turn a profit might also be a part of it though. That’s absolutely true. What we all have to remember is that it’s all a numbers game at the end of the day, one fuelled by a passion for guitars, yes. But a numbers game nonetheless.



I get what you're saying and I agree. They can do whatever they want, but yes, I would put my job and reputation on the line that Rga's, Xiphos, and those Dingwall type basses would sell more than all the very niche and weird basses they make. I just can't see how more people are buying 7 string basses with 2 or the strings being a fretless than would but Rga's and Xiphos. As someone said before, the bass department is probably run by other people with more freedom to do weird stuff.


----------



## Backsnack

Zhysick said:


> Maybe because that one doesn't like Kiesel's neck profile but likes Ibanezs (Ibanezes? Ibanezii? ) neck profile so... why whould you pay 1500$ for something that you don't like when you can pay 2000$ for something that you like?





Vyn said:


> Because if you have a problem with the quality of the Ibanez, you can actually return it/get your money back without having to fight tooth and nail.



I realize that neck profiles are a personal preference, and that Kiesel has had a poor track record at times with customer service and returns.

My overarching point is that I would rather spend $2k on other brands of guitars vs. an Ibanez. I've just never played an Ibanez that felt or played like it was worth that much.


----------



## Backsnack

SpaceDock said:


> Wow, RG5000 series with stainless frets, black Hipshot hardware, Duncan Jupiter pickups, and staggered tuners! Ibanez finally listened to what I wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image
> 
> 
> 
> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image
> 
> 
> 
> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image
> 
> 
> 
> __ SpaceDock
> __ Jan 5, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad this is all lies and only neck/body are original.


What humbuckers are those?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Backsnack said:


> What humbuckers are those?



Looks like Duncan Jupiters.


----------



## Backsnack

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Looks like Duncan Jupiters.


Didn't know they made Duncan Jupiters in 7-strings?

I've been looking for a set of rail pickups for my Agile fanned fret 7.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Backsnack said:


> Didn't know they made Duncan Jupiters in 7-strings?
> 
> I've been looking for a set of rail pickups for my Agile fanned fret 7.



They first came in 7-strings, but it was a CS only option.


----------



## Asphyxia

Backsnack said:


> Didn't know they made Duncan Jupiters in 7-strings?
> 
> I've been looking for a set of rail pickups for my Agile fanned fret 7.


I think Axe palace has them in stock.


----------



## Zhysick

Backsnack said:


> I realize that neck profiles are a personal preference, and that Kiesel has had a poor track record at times with customer service and returns.
> 
> My overarching point is that I would rather spend $2k on other brands of guitars vs. an Ibanez. I've just never played an Ibanez that felt or played like it was worth that much.



I haven't played any Ibanez that has made me feel it was worth its price BUT I have different tastes than other people. I have met people that doesn't like Gibson guitars, or Fender guitars... why should they spend 1500$ on a Fender or a Gibson if they like how a 2000$ Ibanez feel?

I cannot understand why they like Ibanez guitars, but I am no one to question why spending the money in what you like (even if I think what they like is crap )


----------



## odibrom

bostjan said:


> Sorry, I thought that was the primary purpose of the entire site.



Well, I know you were previously joking, but point for you on this comment.


----------



## oremus91

Would be sick if the AZ 7 strings had a fixed bridge option, that's basically what I want.


----------



## diagrammatiks

all you az fans are now my life long enemies.


----------



## lurè

So is the AZ line become more popular than the rg?


----------



## Ben Pinkus

Liking the look of the Martin Miller AZ7!


----------



## JimF

lurè said:


> So is the AZ line become more popular than the rg?



Or its opened up a larger market than the RG buyers perhaps.


----------



## lewis

JimF said:


> Or its opened up a larger market than the RG buyers perhaps.



proving my point that they could create similar new markets on other shapes and lines - they just dont want to


----------



## JimF

Oh no he's back!  j/k


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JimF said:


> Oh no he's back!  j/k



It's alright. Just bring up soldering.


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> proving my point that they could create similar new markets on other shapes and lines - they just dont want to


Remember in the mid to late 00s Ibanez had a load of Xiphos models? 6 strings, 7 strings, doublenecks, 27 frets, different price points. And they just didn't sell because the niche for pointy metal guitars is super small.

Well it's the same for Dingwalls.


----------



## MrWulf

Metal is already niche to begins with. Theres a reason for dominance of superstrats across most of the brands that have a decent market in the metal crowd. I guess you can point to ESP's success with the all black metal line that features tons of different shapes including EX/V but thats pretty vanilla as far as pointy shapes are concerns. 

Just you wait. BC Rich are going to being Ironbirds and some other pointy shapes back and then nobody would buy it because "it is not the same". Then the cycles repeat anew.


----------



## A-Branger

problem with Ibanez is the label/sublabel of the brand (and people perception of it)

everyone cries for a xiphos. But problem is, no-one is going to buy one because everyone want is to be a Prestige. Yet folks would be happy to buy a Solar version of it if it was available (for example)

chances are they are gonna released as a Indo model, but for mayority of folks (in this forum), its either Prestige or nothing (maybe a Premium, maaaaaaaaybe something else)

also problem with Ibanez as always is they (I think) listen more to the stores than the consumers. Obiously they play by numbers, and over decades that translate to the circle we are all used to:

---------------->we only make black guitars because they sell--------------
| |
| |
--------we only buy black guitars because its the only thing available<-----

so its hard to get out of that. And to be fair they have pushed their boundaries in the last few years trying to emulate trends in the nerd market like Kiesel and mayones kinda stuff


I love they are more willing to push the bass boundaries and they should have a Guitarworkshop line to test features/models too.

I dont see the why not they would do a long scale bass as a bass workshop, but if they do, it would be a one color/one model only. IF you really want the long scale, then go to the people who knows how to and is their bred n butter, get a Dingwall. Forget about the label on the headstock and get the one you want in a vast array of options/colors, instead of begging for Ibanez to release that one model in the string spacing that you dont like, with the bass shape that you dont like, in the color that you think its "meh"


also, as my endless Ibanez rant are. WHYYYY they have to keep staining the mahogany bodies red????? (and other weird color combination choices)


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's alright. Just bring up soldering.





MrWulf said:


> Metal is already niche to begins with. Theres a reason for dominance of superstrats across most of the brands that have a decent market in the metal crowd. I guess you can point to ESP's success with the all black metal line that features tons of different shapes including EX/V but thats pretty vanilla as far as pointy shapes are concerns.
> 
> *Just you wait. BC Rich are going to being Ironbirds and some other pointy shapes back and then nobody would buy it because "it is not the same". Then the cycles repeat anew.*




Thats more to do with the BC Rich brand name than it is "pOiNtY sHaPeS aRe oLd HaT"


----------



## cip 123

Anyone remember that X line they tried to bring in during the 10s? 

even had The dude from necrophagiast rep them. 


They didn’t last long


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> Anyone remember that X line they tried to bring in during the 10s?



Ask @DrakkarTyrannis


----------



## Viginez

cip 123 said:


> Anyone remember that X line they tried to bring in during the 10s?
> 
> even had The dude from necrophagiast rep them.
> 
> 
> They didn’t last long


falchion? they dropped it after mr. suicmez basically disappeared


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ask @DrakkarTyrannis



The Halberd was so cool but it died fast.


----------



## Millul

lewis said:


> proving my point that they could create similar new markets on other shapes and lines - they just dont want to



Actually, I think it goes in the opposite direction: the AZ is a more "generic" shape than the RG, less aggressive, some models are definitely more similar to the time-tested classic S design, and the features go even more in shame direction (rounder FB radius, thicker neck, classic-style bridge, versatile wiring).

It basically is a de-radicalized RG - the opposite of "let's make a super long scale bass or aggressive-as-f&ck ultra-violet Xiphos".


----------



## JimF

That's how I always viewed the AZ. Its a strat-thats-not-a-strat type guitar. For fans of the aesthetic of simpler Suhr, Anderson, maybe Charvel etc


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ask @DrakkarTyrannis


Lol. Don't get me started you bastard


----------



## odibrom

Ibanez AZs are the son/daugther between an Ibanez RG and a Fender Strat. The AZ name means "Alfa-Omega", which in Jewish/Christian ideology refers to God as the beginning and end, which in guitar words means a DO-IT-ALL guitar (personal interpretation of the series' name). It goes for metal, for pop, neo soul and whatever one will do with it.

Aesthetically it is neutral compared to an RG due to its rounder corners and lack of locking trems. It's a non angled headstock, which connects with the Fender crowd that will think of it as an alternative...

Personally, they're not my cup of tea, but I'd rock one if given a 7 stringer?

... and I like the trend Ibanez is pushing forward in adding more tone options on their guitars with the included coil split switch for the hums, present in the AZ and RG lines...


----------



## MrWulf

lewis said:


> Thats more to do with the BC Rich brand name than it is "pOiNtY sHaPeS aRe oLd HaT"



You are missing the points so wild now that you should apply to be Chicago's kicker.

Nobody buy pointy shape guitars, not because they are old hats, but because despite how much noise people make online about it. It is a minority within a minority to begin with. Nobody buy it enough to make it worthwhile

Posting in an online forum/fb group is pretty free. Shelling out money for actual product is not. Nevermind the snobs who wants Prestige Xiphos or some shit when the regular Xiphos collect dust on the shelf.


----------



## diagrammatiks

odibrom said:


> Ibanez AZs are the son/daugther between an Ibanez RG and a Fender Strat. The AZ name means "Alfa-Omega", which in Jewish/Christian ideology refers to God as the beginning and end, which in guitar words means a DO-IT-ALL guitar (personal interpretation of the series' name). It goes for metal, for pop, neo soul and whatever one will do with it.
> 
> Aesthetically it is neutral compared to an RG due to its rounder corners and lack of locking trems. It's a non angled headstock, which connects with the Fender crowd that will think of it as an alternative...
> 
> Personally, they're not my cup of tea, but I'd rock one if given a 7 stringer?
> 
> ... and I like the trend Ibanez is pushing forward in adding more tone options on their guitars with the included coil split switch for the hums, present in the AZ and RG lines...



they already had all of that with the sv. 

at this point I just want someone to take that body and do something cool with it.


----------



## TrevorT

odibrom said:


> ... and I like the trend Ibanez is pushing forward in adding more tone options on their guitars with the included coil split switch for the hums, present in the AZ and RG lines...



Noooo the coil split switch on RGs (particularly 5000 series with HH) needs to die. I'd much prefer a 5-way switch to a 3-way switch + toggle. I'm never going to use the bridge pickup split on its own, and in a live setting I'd rather flip a single switch to change configurations than 2 switches. The AZs are fine, since they still have a 5-way switch, but with an alter switch for 5 additional tonal options.

... I might be in the minority here though


----------



## StevenC

In the beginning, Mr Ibanez created the RG and Steve Vai saw that it was good.

On the second day John Suhr said "I can't sell something as pointy as that" and there was the Modern.

On the third through 6th days, Mr Ibanez rested.

On the 7th day he noticed these Suhrs were getting pretty popular so he made the AZ.


----------



## Phlegethon

A-Branger said:


> problem with Ibanez is the label/sublabel of the brand (and people perception of it)
> 
> everyone cries for a xiphos. But problem is, no-one is going to buy one because everyone want is to be a Prestige.



You're bang on with the "everyone wants one, nobody would buy one" line of thinking. Here's my take on that:

In Canada, the xiphos would likely command a price high enough to put it in the same bracket as something like a brand new genesis 550. No way in hell am I spending large sums of cash for the inconsistency that comes out of Indonesia. Especially if I could pick up said genesis 550 and get something that I know would be built well. There's also a few changes to MII that makes me avoid them altogether, such as one piece wiz 3 necks which make anything with it feel like something out of the gio line.


----------



## StevenC

Phlegethon said:


> You're bang on with the "everyone wants one, nobody would buy one" line of thinking. Here's my take on that:
> 
> In Canada, the xiphos would likely command a price high enough to put it in the same bracket as something like a brand new genesis 550. No way in hell am I spending large sums of cash for the inconsistency that comes out of Indonesia. Especially if I could pick up said genesis 550 and get something that I know would be built well. There's also a few changes to MII that makes me avoid them altogether, such as one piece wiz 3 necks which make anything with it feel like something out of the gio line.


100%

If Ibanez makes another Xiphos it'll be a Axion Label and cost more than any Genesis model. There are Ibanez standard models approaching that price already.

Releasing the old Xiphos neck throughs today with trems and Dimarzios and flip flop paint would be so expensive.


----------



## JimF

Phlegethon said:


> such as one piece wiz 3 necks which make anything with it feel like something out of the gio line.



I thought I was the only one that hated those necks.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

TrevorT said:


> Noooo the coil split switch on RGs (particularly 5000 series with HH) needs to die. I'd much prefer a 5-way switch to a 3-way switch + toggle. I'm never going to use the bridge pickup split on its own, and in a live setting I'd rather flip a single switch to change configurations than 2 switches. The AZs are fine, since they still have a 5-way switch, but with an alter switch for 5 additional tonal options.
> 
> ... I might be in the minority here though


THIS.

Fuck coil tap switches. Most of the time the tapped setting sound like garbage. The 5 way split is far more convincing. And I might be wiring stupid, and they might be the exact same sound in reality, but to me the 2 and 4th poositions sounds much better than a switched tap. 

Either way, the 5 way switch is one of the things I love about Ibanez.


----------



## JimF

I would have disagreed with you until I got my Ibanez with a 5 way, and I've found I use positions 3 & 4 for cleans & crunchy stuff a lot!


----------



## Phlegethon

TheInvisibleHand said:


> THIS.
> 
> Fuck coil tap switches. Most of the time the tapped setting sound like garbage. The 5 way split is far more convincing. And I might be wiring stupid, and they might be the exact same sound in reality, but to me the 2 and 4th poositions sounds much better than a switched tap.
> 
> Either way, the 5 way switch is one of the things I love about Ibanez.



The 5 way on HH RG's is superior to a coil split. Parallel connected neck humbucker and inside coils of both humbuckers give you single coil flavour, but are still immune to 60 cycle hum. I seriously wonder why people get coil splits instead of series/parallel for this reason alone.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Phlegethon said:


> The 5 way on HH RG's is superior to a coil split. Parallel connected neck humbucker and inside coils of both humbuckers give you single coil flavour, but are still immune to 60 cycle hum. I seriously wonder why people get coil splits instead of series/parallel for this reason alone.



ya I have a box full of their special 5 way switches. it's basically all I use when rewiring guitars.


----------



## odibrom

diagrammatiks said:


> they already had all of that with the sv.
> 
> at this point I just want someone to take that body and do something cool with it.



As has being said around here, the "S" series is more expensive to build, it requires more machine time and man/hand time just for the carving and, therefore, costing more at the end. Marketing that is then a bitch because people will buy RGs with the same specs mostly because of price, so "S" models sell way less than RGs and RGs will have more options and so on. The AZ line is a following of the "SZ" and "SC" experiments. When Gambale was onboard the Ibanez roster, "S" models were all over the place. When the Satriani model came to be, the "R" models vanished because they didn't sell, although there were HSS models in the that line for example. I'm seeing the "S" models slowly desapear into sigs only, unfortunately 'cause I dig them a lot and want an S5527 with me in the near future.

IMO, they could/should(?) rethink their offerings as far as models go. Get them more coherent along the different lines... but what do I know?




TrevorT said:


> Noooo the coil split switch on RGs (particularly 5000 series with HH) needs to die. I'd much prefer a 5-way switch to a 3-way switch + toggle. I'm never going to use the bridge pickup split on its own, and in a live setting I'd rather flip a single switch to change configurations than 2 switches. The AZs are fine, since they still have a 5-way switch, but with an alter switch for 5 additional tonal options.
> 
> ... I might be in the minority here though



Personally, I really don't care much on that switch, either 3 or 5 way. I'd replace it immediately with a Freeway one, probably the 5B5-01 and get even more sounds out of the guitar, then convert that coil split switch into something like a phase switch or, adding piezos, a mag/mix/piezo switch... It would hurt me to drill those guitars in order to add a switch, so if the guitar already comes with one, hurray! 




TheInvisibleHand said:


> THIS.
> 
> Fuck coil tap switches. Most of the time the tapped setting sound like garbage. The 5 way split is far more convincing. And I might be wiring stupid, and they might be the exact same sound in reality, but to me the 2 and 4th poositions sounds much better than a switched tap.
> 
> Either way, the 5 way switch is one of the things I love about Ibanez.



I'm glad that this is only your opinion, because I do like coil split tones, they have a different vibe to them when compared to parallel wired coils. They sound... RAW'er when compared with parallel wired coils, which sound muffled and compressed, although in "the same tone arena".

Comparing inner coils in parallel with only one coil will sound drastically different with ether of each coils isolated. When comparing splits within the same humbucker and with it being in parallel, splits have more sparkle than parallel and I prefer that in clean tones, for example. When I started messing with wirings, my go-to tones would be only series or parallel wired hums, then I started to experiment a little deeper into what 2 hums in a guitar could deliver with a beater/workhorse I have and that opened many many doors in the tone arena, so to say that I almost ditched parallel wired coils tones. I can get to them in my guitars, but I won't use them often. Also because the contrast between single to series wired coils is way bigger than between series and parallel, so I generally opt for these. Contrast is what excites our senses, so go with what excites you...?

... and there's no need to say "fuck this or that" in this matter ... imo...




Phlegethon said:


> The 5 way on HH RG's is superior to a coil split. Parallel connected neck humbucker and inside coils of both humbuckers give you single coil flavour, but are still immune to 60 cycle hum. I seriously wonder why people get coil splits instead of series/parallel for this reason alone.



I cannot speak for others, but in my previous paragraph I say that it is because of the tone contrast. Humbuckers sound big and fat in series and softer and brighter in parallel, but in both wiring options they also sound compressed. Single coils don't, and that is a refreshing thing in my book. They'll make the amp and FXs react differently, which will enhance the contrast between them with the same amp+FX settings and I like that, I like to incorporate that into my expression, so, how about it, is it a good reason?

Regarding 60 cycle hum, that depends a lot on the rig you have and how you manage it. For instance, I don't use gates to silence my guitar from extra noise, I use mute pedals and expression pedals to manage the amount of drive I have (rack rig with MIDI controlled pedalboard). When I'm not playing, I'll remove the drive and am as quiet as a mouse being persuit by a cat. Also, as long as you're playing, there's no 60 ccycle hum to anoy you. If there is, play faster, that what Malsmteen did... 




diagrammatiks said:


> ya I have a box full of their special 5 way switches. it's basically all I use when rewiring guitars.



I also have several VXL91 switches in my parts box, I made different wirings in them to test out what I liked more and would swap them in and out in my guitars, but then, in the beginning of 2020, the Freeway 5B5-01 switches came to be and I... well, I'm sold to them...


----------



## diagrammatiks

odibrom said:


> As has being said around here, the "S" series is more expensive to build, it requires more machine time and man/hand time just for the carving and, therefore, costing more at the end. Marketing that is then a bitch because people will buy RGs with the same specs mostly because of price, so "S" models sell way less than RGs and RGs will have more options and so on. The AZ line is a following of the "SZ" and "SC" experiments. When Gambale was onboard the Ibanez roster, "S" models were all over the place. When the Satriani model came to be, the "R" models vanished because they didn't sell, although there were HSS models in the that line for example. I'm seeing the "S" models slowly desapear into sigs only, unfortunately 'cause I dig them a lot and want an S5527 with me in the near future.
> 
> IMO, they could/should(?) rethink their offerings as far as models go. Get them more coherent along the different lines... but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I really don't care much on that switch, either 3 or 5 way. I'd replace it immediately with a Freeway one, probably the 5B5-01 and get even more sounds out of the guitar, then convert that coil split switch into something like a phase switch or, adding piezos, a mag/mix/piezo switch... It would hurt me to drill those guitars in order to add a switch, so if the guitar already comes with one, hurray!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad that this is only your opinion, because I do like coil split tones, they have a different vibe to them when compared to parallel wired coils. They sound... RAW'er when compared with parallel wired coils, which sound muffled and compressed, although in "the same tone arena".
> 
> Comparing inner coils in parallel with only one coil will sound drastically different with ether of each coils isolated. When comparing splits within the same humbucker and with it being in parallel, splits have more sparkle than parallel and I prefer that in clean tones, for example. When I started messing with wirings, my go-to tones would be only series or parallel wired hums, then I started to experiment a little deeper into what 2 hums in a guitar could deliver with a beater/workhorse I have and that opened many many doors in the tone arena, so to say that I almost ditched parallel wired coils tones. I can get to them in my guitars, but I won't use them often. Also because the contrast between single to series wired coils is way bigger than between series and parallel, so I generally opt for these. Contrast is what excites our senses, so go with what excites you...?
> 
> ... and there's no need to say "fuck this or that" in this matter ... imo...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot speak for others, but in my previous paragraph I say that it is because of the tone contrast. Humbuckers sound big and fat in series and softer and brighter in parallel, but in both wiring options they also sound compressed. Single coils don't, and that is a refreshing thing in my book. They'll make the amp and FXs react differently, which will enhance the contrast between them with the same amp+FX settings and I like that, I like to incorporate that into my expression, so, how about it, is it a good reason?
> 
> Regarding 60 cycle hum, that depends a lot on the rig you have and how you manage it. For instance, I don't use gates to silence my guitar from extra noise, I use mute pedals and expression pedals to manage the amount of drive I have (rack rig with MIDI controlled pedalboard). When I'm not playing, I'll remove the drive and am as quiet as a mouse being persuit by a cat. Also, as long as you're playing, there's no 60 ccycle hum to anoy you. If there is, play faster, that what Malsmteen did...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also have several VXL91 switches in my parts box, I made different wirings in them to test out what I liked more and would swap them in and out in my guitars, but then, in the beginning of 2020, the Freeway 5B5-01 switches came to be and I... well, I'm sold to them...



well, Ibanez hasn't really wanted to build S series guitars in Japan for a long time. They may have finally succeeded. From what I can see the Premium and axion S's sell quite well and the S prestige hasn't been updated in like forever.

The switch I'm talking about is the 2502. No wiring options. It does only one thing but it's the only setup I really need for a h/h guitar.


----------



## odibrom

Ibanez doesn't want to build S guitars in Japan because they're way more expensive there...

... and it's ok to like that switch, why wouldn't? If it works and does what you want it to do, great, right?


----------



## _MonSTeR_

The trouble with the new little switch on the new RGs is that it only offers one more tone but that for years the switching system on the JS offered the same tones but with a far more elegant push/pull volume pot to activate the coil tap. This is then coupled with the fact the extra tones it offers aren’t all that useable especially when compared to the clever series-parallel switching used previously.

In essence it’s change for change’s sake and not necessarily a forward step...

And it looks awful.


----------



## diagrammatiks

odibrom said:


> Ibanez doesn't want to build S guitars in Japan because they're way more expensive there...
> 
> ... and it's ok to like that switch, why wouldn't? If it works and does what you want it to do, great, right?



i don't really buy the simply more expensive reason. they can pass that cost on. they have no problem charging 1500 for a indo S. Given that pricing scheme the Japanese S should be more. Just charge more and market it correctly. 

The JIVA X is 3200. 

I do buy that Fgn doesn't want to do them. But fgn would rather do instruments at all so that's a wash.


----------



## odibrom

_MonSTeR_ said:


> The trouble with the new little switch on the new RGs is that it only offers one more tone but that for years the switching system on the JS offered the same tones but with a far more elegant push/pull volume pot to activate the coil tap. This is then coupled with the fact the extra tones it offers aren’t all that useable especially when compared to the clever series-parallel switching used previously.
> 
> In essence it’s change for change’s sake and not necessarily a forward step...
> 
> And it looks awful.



Push/pull pots aren't really reliable in a performance context, in my experience. I used to love them for they conceal functions and keep the guitar "clean", but learned to prefer miniswitches for performance. Push/pull pots can change values when operated for the switch and that can affect one's performance.

... hey, we don't all have to like the same things, right? That's why there is variety...


----------



## possumkiller

odibrom said:


> Ibanez AZs are the son/daugther between an Ibanez RG and a Fender Strat. The AZ name means "Alfa-Omega", which in Jewish/Christian ideology refers to God as the beginning and end, which in guitar words means a DO-IT-ALL guitar (personal interpretation of the series' name). It goes for metal, for pop, neo soul and whatever one will do with it.


Uh... No.

AZ is Arizona where Dave Mustaine is from. Dave Mustaine used to play Ibanez destroyers and Chris Broderick used to be in Megadeath and used to play Ibanez guitars.


----------



## JimF

I don't think either of those are true


----------



## gunshow86de

Let me have my Q friends run the AZ model names through the gematria translator, they'll get to the bottom of it.

EDIT: I'm only aware of it from meme screenshots and I have no idea how the Q people actually use the gematria calculator things... but... I put AZ24047 into it and some of the results were; "Barrack Obama Immortal," "Chief of Reptilians," "Donald Drumpf." I nearly fell out of my chair.


----------



## ixlramp

I think some posters here who are criticising this model year as 'the worst ever' (or something similar) are using an unfortunate choice of words and should give Ibanez some slack, something happened in 2020 =)


----------



## Quiet Coil

ixlramp said:


> I think some posters here who are criticising this model year as 'the worst ever' (or something similar) are using an unfortunate choice of words and should give Ibanez some slack, something happened in 2020 =)



Does kinda sound like my grandson, he’ll flip from “worst day ever” to “best day” (and back) on a dime. And I don’t really like anything from the lineup.


----------



## odibrom

Quiet Coil said:


> Does kinda sound like my grandson, he’ll flip from “worst day ever” to “best day” (and back) on a dime. And I don’t really like anything from the lineup.



... we're getting old... excitement for material things is not the same anymore. The young ones are those who flip their moods as they flip shirts. We, the Dads, are more neutral with feelings and expectations on these things... too much hysteria over things that really don't matter that much...


----------



## Quiet Coil

odibrom said:


> ... we're getting old... excitement for material things is not the same anymore. The young ones are those who flip their moods as they flip shirts. We, the Dads, are more neutral with feelings and expectations on these things... too much histeria over things that really don't matter that much...



Been there. Kinda miss being the most dramatic (and sole) person in my life. 

Not that I’d give up my family now that I have one (well, not all of them). 

EDIT: Back on Ibby - one thing that could potentially be dope (though extremely unlikely) would be a signature EHB. I’m really only seriously contemplating a bass as I’ve been without for some time. I love the seafoam 5 ms, but am really not interested in the Barts.

I have zero problems swapping electronics and hardware (nothing I own is stock, including my Taylor), but do have an issue with anything I can’t “buy” on zero percent interest (i.e. Nordstrands).


----------



## Crundles

gunshow86de said:


> "Chief of Reptilians,"



I'm sending an email to HR to change my work email signature to this A S A P





Also, release a 7-string version, cowards


----------



## OmegaSlayer

ixlramp said:


> I think some posters here who are criticising this model year as 'the worst ever' (or something similar) are using an unfortunate choice of words and should give Ibanez some slack, something happened in 2020 =)


You know, when you're in love with a brand, they release a line-up and there's nothing that you see and make you scream "PERFECTION!!!", you feel let down
For my likings the best thing out of this year line-up so far are the Jiva-X and the PWM
Mostly I'm annoyed by the lack of maple fretboards not AZ models (but that goes for many, most brands)


----------



## binz

Anybody know what happened to the pink sparkle RG421MSP PSP? It is not on ibanez.com anymore. 

I also asked at thomann when and if it will be available and they told me they cant get it. So I am guessing it is not planned to be released in Europe (at least for now)?


----------



## I play music

binz said:


> Anybody know what happened to the pink sparkle RG421MSP PSP? It is not on ibanez.com anymore.
> 
> I also asked at thomann when and if it will be available and they told me they cant get it. So I am guessing it is not planned to be released in Europe (at least for now)?


https://www.ibanez.com/eu/news/detail/20201118171450.html It's not for the European market 
USA has it look https://www.ibanez.com/usa/news/detail/20201203155245.html


----------



## Hollowway

I play music said:


> https://www.ibanez.com/eu/news/detail/20201118171450.html It's not for the European market
> USA has it look https://www.ibanez.com/usa/news/detail/20201203155245.html



Eh, you europeans can have it. (In my best SSO voice): I need another string, no FB dots, no pickup rings, and a floyd.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> (In my best SSO voice)


----------



## I play music

Hollowway said:


> Eh, you europeans can have it. (In my best SSO voice): I need another string, no FB dots, no pickup rings, and a floyd.


I don't even want that guitar, have fun with it 
The nicer stuff we got even last year before you, RG565 and RGB  Sooo... guess Ibanez likes us more


----------



## binz

I play music said:


> https://www.ibanez.com/eu/news/detail/20201118171450.html It's not for the European market
> USA has it look https://www.ibanez.com/usa/news/detail/20201203155245.html



noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :'(

thanks for clarifying this though


----------



## Miek

i guess this isn't gonna be the year they ditch the fusion edges huh

and I totally realize I had no reason to expect it but i'm bummed there's no reverse headstock AZ and that the 7 string ones are still 25.5. I know, I know!


----------



## lewis

so now stating a range of guitars as being good or not is taken out of context and compared to a global pandemic?
o...k

I watched Ola's latest video and he happened to check out this Ibanez range and also thought it was disappointing. Quick lets all rush to his youtube channel stating he isnt allowed that opinion because "covid"


----------



## I play music

lewis said:


> so now stating a range of guitars as being good or not is taken out of context and compared to a global pandemic?
> o...k
> 
> I watched Ola's latest video and he happened to check out this Ibanez range and also thought it was disappointing. Quick lets all rush to his youtube channel stating he isnt allowed that opinion because "covid"


Maybe he only checked it out in his video because it's kinda disappointing and ta da makes Solar look good ... ESP previews he did not check out AFAIK ;-)


----------



## JimF

I could be wrong, but I don't think Ola is the type to do that. He's a long time Ibanez fan, which is probably why he's covering their releases.


----------



## Musiscience

Anyone knows when the Ibanez event will take place? Supposedly what was announced is not the whole catalog.


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> so now stating a range of guitars as being good or not is taken out of context and compared to a global pandemic?
> o...k
> 
> I watched Ola's latest video and he happened to check out this Ibanez range and also thought it was disappointing. Quick lets all rush to his youtube channel stating he isnt allowed that opinion because "covid"


Nope, because that's not an accurate representation of the discussion. It's one guy saying Ibanez should release a bunch of guitars that don't sell well because he likes them, a bunch of posters replying that's dumb and those guitars don't sell well regardless of whether one guy on got some internet points, and then another guy saying in general terms that companies might be more conservative this year.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Musiscience said:


> Anyone knows when the Ibanez event will take place? Supposedly what was announced is not the whole catalog.



I’ve seen it being mentioned as next Thursday, Jan 21st.


----------



## Wc707

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I’ve seen it being mentioned as next Thursday, Jan 21st.



Too far away.


----------



## Musiscience

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I’ve seen it being mentioned as next Thursday, Jan 21st.


Thanks!


----------



## OmegaSlayer

JimF said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think Ola is the type to do that. He's a long time Ibanez fan, which is probably why he's covering their releases.


Never got the impression of him being an Ibby fan
Anyway, "he was asked" by his followers *shrugs*
As I said, my main disappoint is not seeing maple fretboards on "extreme" guitars, but that goes for ESP line up too, which, as a whole, not only NAMM 2021, is embarassing on the maple fretboards side
PS. I said extreme, so not counting Strato-like and Tele-like


----------



## Shredrrr

OmegaSlayer said:


> Never got the impression of him being an Ibby fan
> Anyway, "he was asked" by his followers *shrugs*
> As I said, my main disappoint is not seeing maple fretboards on "extreme" guitars, but that goes for ESP line up too, which, as a whole, not only NAMM 2021, is embarassing on the maple fretboards side
> PS. I said extreme, so not counting Strato-like and Tele-like



Ola is a big ibby fan. I don't watch a ton of his videos but he's pretty clear on his love of Ibanez particularly from the 90s/00s.

I'm not wowed by anything in the lineup, last year the focus was the RG this year its the RGD. I am happy to see the new AZ and the AZ7. The AZ's been such a success for Ibanez and I think this will only get them a bigger market share of that constituency.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Shredrrr said:


> Ola is a big ibby fan. I don't watch a ton of his videos but he's pretty clear on his love of Ibanez particularly from the 90s/00s.
> 
> I'm not wowed by anything in the lineup, last year the focus was the RG this year its the RGD. I am happy to see the new AZ and the AZ7. The AZ's been such a success for Ibanez and I think this will only get them a bigger market share of that constituency.


Objectively, it's quite hard to not acknowledge the quality of Ibanez products in the 90s/00s
At the very least they had the best bang for bucks ratio

I repeat myself, I'll never be the guy who says "X brand should put manufacturing of model y to do model z", I just look at those tiny details and nitpick

Sure as hell, rather than buying an AZ, I'd rather pick a Suhr or a Charvel, at least for the simple reason of brand variety in my guitar line-up


----------



## JimF

OmegaSlayer said:


> Never got the impression of him being an Ibby fan



He consistently played an MTM2 (or similar) in his earlier videos, he's owned several JPM models including one he regrets selling, and he currently owns one and uses it in his videos, one of the first videos he did on his individual guitar was for his white Universe, he also showed that same guitar in an older video where he went to his storage unit and went through some gear, he's said several times he wants the new Steve Vai PIA guitar...


----------



## OmegaSlayer

JimF said:


> He consistently played an MTM2 (or similar) in his earlier videos, he's owned several JPM models including one he regrets selling, and he currently owns one and uses it in his videos, one of the first videos he did on his individual guitar was for his white Universe, he also showed that same guitar in an older video where he went to his storage unit and went through some gear, he's said several times he wants the new Steve Vai PIA guitar...


Maaaaaaaaaan...you stalk him


----------



## JimF

100% true! I'm a total fanboy 
Imagine the craze for The Beatles in the 60s, but instead of beautiful women its a hefty bearded english man.
Panties still being thrown


----------



## profwoot

JimF said:


> 100% true! I'm a total fanboy
> Imagine the craze for The Beatles in the 60s, but instead of beautiful women its a hefty bearded english man.
> Panties still being thrown



omg I'm sorry but sometimes it feels nice to see stuff like this. We're all just fans, right? The above is how I feel about periphery right now, and I know I'm 10 years late but I was really busy and it feels nice as a hefty bearded non-english man to say it out loud.

Also Ola's videos are always wholesome af and I'm here for it.


----------



## Millul

Ola is the coolest guy on YT, by far. Huge fan.


----------



## JimF

profwoot said:


> omg I'm sorry but sometimes it feels nice to see stuff like this. We're all just fans, right? The above is how I feel about periphery right now, and I know I'm 10 years late but I was really busy and it feels nice as a hefty bearded non-english man to say it out loud.
> 
> Also Ola's videos are always wholesome af and I'm here for it.



Definitely! Ola is a similar age to me, with a similar sense of humor and similar interests! It's like if I knew him locally and he wasn't famous, we would probably be friends.

As I grew out of my teens I went away from the whole hero-worship thing, but it's a refreshing change from the cynicism of adulthood to discover someone you admire and who always put out content you love!


----------



## DCM_Allan

I'm just wondering where is the apex 30, I saw some vendors that still shows it as Pre order since last year


----------



## OmegaSlayer

JimF said:


> Definitely! Ola is a similar age to me, with a similar sense of humor and similar interests! It's like if I knew him locally and he wasn't famous, we would probably be friends.
> 
> As I grew out of my teens I went away from the whole hero-worship thing, but it's a refreshing change from the cynicism of adulthood to discover someone you admire and who always put out content you love!


I like Ola too, still I watch his vids randomly, there's only a finite amount of time a man has, so I juggle various guitarists on youtube, with Dave Brewster and Rotem Sivan being my favourites at the moment

Anyway, this is electric guitars section, but for me, this is a great endorsement that Ibanez has sealed, Jon Gomm is a beast, one of my favourite players of all time, even if he's miles away from my tastes and what I play
I think my admiration for him is second only to Guthrie Govan and Jason Becker
https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/jgm10_47_01.html


----------



## Apex1rg7x

DCM_Allan said:


> I'm just wondering where is the apex 30, I saw some vendors that still shows it as Pre order since last year


Yeah between waiting on that and the K7 20th being so limited, I'm kinda bummed we don't have a high end Munky model this year.


----------



## c7spheres

Apex1rg7x said:


> Yeah between waiting on that and the K7 20th being so limited, I'm kinda bummed we don't have a high end Munky model this year.


 
I'd love to see that RGA Apex with a LoPRo. Like the original one Munky plays. LoRo Edge= I'll take two!. Evertune= Oh, nevermind. K7 without K7 logo= yes please. K7 with logo= Oh, nevermind.
Ibanez = the epitome of "close but no cigar"


Actually this got me thinking. Anybody know if it's a pain to replace an evertune with a Floyd/LoPRoEdge?


----------



## eclecto-acoustic

Any word on a last second headless release? I seem to recall someone vowing to consume a vat of ketchup or some such if there wasn't one...


----------



## Leviathus

Apex1rg7x said:


> Yeah between waiting on that and the K7 20th being so limited, I'm kinda bummed we don't have a high end Munky model this year.


:: Crosses fingers for Apex300 unveiling next Thursday ::


----------



## Apex1rg7x

c7spheres said:


> I'd love to see that RGA Apex with a LoPRo. Like the original one Munky plays. LoRo Edge= I'll take two!. Evertune= Oh, nevermind. K7 without K7 logo= yes please. K7 with logo= Oh, nevermind.
> Ibanez = the epitome of "close but no cigar"
> 
> 
> Actually this got me thinking. Anybody know if it's a pain to replace an evertune with a Floyd/LoPRoEdge?


Aesthetically the Apex 30 is nearly perfect but the damn Evertune is keeping me from throwing money at it.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Leviathus said:


> :: Crosses fingers for Apex300 unveiling next Thursday ::


Is their rumors of that? Man that would be great though!


----------



## Leviathus

Apex1rg7x said:


> Is their rumors of that?


Not that i know of, just wishful thinking.


----------



## TrevorT

So I'm 90% sure that we're gonna see a tele-style Josh Smith (the blues player) signature in the next day or so. If that's the case, then I assume tele-style guitars (probably along the same vein as the AZs) will be released very soon.

Josh has been teasing a new signature guitar on his Instagram, and is set to announce it tomorrow night. From what he's said about it, and from the pictures, I'm pretty certain at this point that it's an Ibanez. He's said it's with a big company and that it'll be available worldwide. Another guess of mine would have been Suhr, but John Suhr has said in a thread on TGP that it wasn't.

Edit: another clue is that Lee Anderton commented this on one of Josh's Instagram posts:
"I ban you from saying! (Little clue there!! )"


----------



## Musiscience

TrevorT said:


> So I'm 90% sure that we're gonna see a tele-style Josh Smith (the blues player) signature in the next day or so. If that's the case, then I assume tele-style guitars (probably along the same vein as the AZs) will be released very soon.
> 
> Josh has been teasing a new signature guitar on his Instagram, and is set to announce it tomorrow night. From what he's said about it, and from the pictures, I'm pretty certain at this point that it's an Ibanez. He's said it's with a big company and that it'll be available worldwide. Another guess of mine would have been Suhr, but John Suhr has said in a thread on TGP that it wasn't.
> 
> Edit: another clue is that Lee Anderton commented this on one of Josh's Instagram posts:
> "I ban you from saying! (Little clue there!! )"



If that's the case, I really hope it's just a sig and not indicative of the AZ tele variant. They made sure that each spec was at least a bit modern on the first AZ, and that block heel is running in the opposite direction. At least a little slant like a Suhr would have been great. Or a little sculpting like the Elite series Fender. Let's wait and see.

Edit: just discovered Josh Smith through the previous comment and he is an astounding player. Damn.


----------



## Seabeast2000

TrevorT said:


> So I'm 90% sure that we're gonna see a tele-style Josh Smith (the blues player) signature in the next day or so. If that's the case, then I assume tele-style guitars (probably along the same vein as the AZs) will be released very soon.
> 
> Josh has been teasing a new signature guitar on his Instagram, and is set to announce it tomorrow night. From what he's said about it, and from the pictures, I'm pretty certain at this point that it's an Ibanez. He's said it's with a big company and that it'll be available worldwide. Another guess of mine would have been Suhr, but John Suhr has said in a thread on TGP that it wasn't.
> 
> Edit: another clue is that Lee Anderton commented this on one of Josh's Instagram posts:
> "I ban you from saying! (Little clue there!! )"



Like an FR with AZ flavorings maybe?


----------



## TrevorT

Musiscience said:


> If that's the case, I really hope it's just a sig and not indicative of the AZ tele variant. They made sure that each spec was at least a bit modern on the first AZ, and that block heel is running in the opposite direction. At least a little slant like a Suhr would have been great. Or a little sculpting like the Elite series Fender. Let's wait and see.
> 
> Edit: just discovered Josh Smith through the previous comment and he is an astounding player. Damn.



Yeah, I'm wondering if the normal model will have more modern features, with the more vintage specs being unique to Josh's sig. I personally hope that's the case. And yeah, he's a fantastic player!



Seabeast2000 said:


> Like an FR with AZ flavorings maybe?



I'm thinking it'll look more like a traditional Tele, but maybe with a bit more contouring on the non-signature variants... but that's just a guess at this point.


----------



## Shredrrr

TrevorT said:


> So I'm 90% sure that we're gonna see a tele-style Josh Smith (the blues player) signature in the next day or so. If that's the case, then I assume tele-style guitars (probably along the same vein as the AZs) will be released very soon.
> 
> Josh has been teasing a new signature guitar on his Instagram, and is set to announce it tomorrow night. From what he's said about it, and from the pictures, I'm pretty certain at this point that it's an Ibanez. He's said it's with a big company and that it'll be available worldwide. Another guess of mine would have been Suhr, but John Suhr has said in a thread on TGP that it wasn't.
> 
> Edit: another clue is that Lee Anderton commented this on one of Josh's Instagram posts:
> "I ban you from saying! (Little clue there!! )"



Looks likes a talman, the new jline strat ones have a block heel and they have done the tele variant before. Talman shape is very tele-esque to begin with.


----------



## odibrom

c7spheres said:


> (...)
> Actually this got me thinking. Anybody know if it's a pain to replace an evertune with a Floyd/LoPRoEdge?



Just don't, completely different routings, you'd be better with a new guitar body.


----------



## Musiscience

Shredrrr said:


> Looks likes a talman, the new jline strat ones have a block heel and they have done the tele variant before. Talman shape is very tele-esque to begin with.


I dont think so, it looks like the exact body shape of a tele from the pictures. The Talman also has rounded body contours and this is not rounded like an actual telecaster.


----------



## davis1224

The 7 string AZs is an excellent move to capture the non-djent musician that wants to play a 7 string


----------



## Musiscience

I've found the 2021 Ibanez catalog (no idea if already posted) and no sign of a tele model. Is it common for Ibanez to release a new line and not include it in their catalog? 

https://issuu.com/ibanezgermany/docs/ibanez_2021_cat_eu/24


----------



## lewis

davis1224 said:


> The 7 string AZs is an excellent move to capture the non-djent musician that wants to play a 7 string


the worrying recent trend is"djent guitarists" all moving towards that Polyphia style instead - meaning the AZ 7s are perfectly in fashion for djent guitarists.


----------



## josh1

lewis said:


> the worrying recent trend is"djent guitarists" all moving towards that Polyphia style instead - meaning the AZ 7s are perfectly in fashion for djent guitarists.


It's definitely the "in" thing. It's all over Instagram.


----------



## odibrom

Non locking trems are a no go for me... but please feel free to offer me these guitars, I won't say no...


----------



## lewis

josh1 said:


> It's definitely the "in" thing. It's all over Instagram.


absolutely mate!

That 8 and 9 string, Justin - ATB style Djent seems like it died with him sadly.

Its all been single coil, strat type , melodic djent since.


----------



## SpaceDock

Musiscience said:


> I've found the 2021 Ibanez catalog (no idea if already posted) and no sign of a tele model. Is it common for Ibanez to release a new line and not include it in their catalog?
> 
> https://issuu.com/ibanezgermany/docs/ibanez_2021_cat_eu/24



sad, no headless guitar either.


----------



## Mboogie7

lewis said:


> absolutely mate!
> 
> That 8 and 9 string, Justin - ATB style Djent seems like it died with him sadly.
> 
> Its all been single coil, strat type , melodic djent since.



RIP. I still find myself YouTubing Justin’s last demo track from time to time.


----------



## TrevorT

Shredrrr said:


> Looks likes a talman, the new jline strat ones have a block heel and they have done the tele variant before. Talman shape is very tele-esque to begin with.


I definitely doesn't look like a Talman to me. The body contours are all wrong.



Musiscience said:


> I've found the 2021 Ibanez catalog (no idea if already posted) and no sign of a tele model. Is it common for Ibanez to release a new line and not include it in their catalog?


Ibanez has done so in the past. I think the PIA last year was released during NAMM instead of on January 1st with the rest of their lineup. A few people in the know have also said that Ibanez is planning to release a few more models this coming week, which would make sense considering this week is when the virtual NAMM thing is happening.


----------



## c7spheres

odibrom said:


> Just don't, completely different routings, you'd be better with a new guitar body.



I figured as much. I also hesitate more about getting involved in "projects" too nowadays. (though I have a couple in the works : ) 
- The problem is getting someone to actually build an RGA body blank. Nobody wants to do it and all the people that use to be capable seem to be retired or no longer in the business. Maybe it'd be easier for me to just switch to evertune. I don't whammy often anyways. I don't whammy often, but when I do.... : )


----------



## odibrom

That's the problem with non wahmy guitars, one is always looking for the wahmy bar when it isn't available...


----------



## xzacx

odibrom said:


> Non locking trems are a no go for me... but please feel free to offer me these guitars, I won't say no...


Non-locking trems are the most worthless piece of hardware in all of guitars IMO. Would rather have a TOM so at least it's something easy to adjust.


----------



## Spicypickles

xzacx said:


> Non-locking trems are the most worthless piece of hardware in all of guitars IMO. Would rather have a TOM so at least it's something easy to adjust.


QFT. 

i really don’t understand the sudden desire for these things. They’re EVERYWHERE, ruining some absolute killer guitars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spicypickles said:


> QFT.
> 
> i really don’t understand the sudden desire for these things. They’re EVERYWHERE, ruining some absolute killer guitars.



Because folks confuse "locking" and "floating" and erroneously believe a floating, non-locking bridge will be "easier" to setup than a Floyd. 

Remember, the key selling point for many guitarists is how little maintenance they need to perform. 

It's just a bad assumption in this case. 

Not to say non-lockers are useless, because with a proper setup they'll be fine if you know the limits.


----------



## Randy

Strat style trems came into popularity because you can detune the guitar without having to re-level the trem like on an FR. Not a lot of kids these days using the trem for flutters or bending up, so a strat trem is the best compromise between tuning stability and being able to dive bomb or vibrato.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Strat style trems came into popularity because you can detune the guitar without having to re-level the trem like on an FR. Not a lot of kids these days using the trem for flutters or bending up, so a strat trem is the best compromise between tuning stability and being able to dive bomb or vibrato.



Any trem that let's you raise the pitch will need to be set level to function properly, regardless if the saddle grabs onto the string.

These aren't all flat-mounted/decked/dive-only bridges, they're floating in many cases.

You can dive-only mount a Floyd too, which would let you get away with tuning shenanigans that full floating inhibits.


----------



## Zhysick

Randy said:


> Strat style trems came into popularity because you can detune the guitar without having to re-level the trem like on an FR. Not a lot of kids these days using the trem for flutters or bending up, so a strat trem is the best compromise between tuning stability and being able to dive bomb or vibrato.



Ehrrr... nope. Non-recessed Floyd Rose is the answer to that.

Still double locking so better tuning stability. You still have fine tuners in the bridge. If you just want to Drop just use a D-Tuner, works like a charm and it's easier than turning the tuning head, it's automatic "Drop" when you have it set up.

If you change the tuning more than just "drop" then don't lock it at the nut, you still have the same issues as a "non-locking" trem (like the vintage or modern two point fulcrum) but still have fine tuners and a better bridge to dive bomb with better capacity for that (wider range).

A different thing might be that you like the strings close to the body because if you install a floyd resting on the top of the guitar it feels similar to a TOM instead to a "hardtail" with that different angle between neck and body...


----------



## Spicypickles

So laziness. 

Damn kids.


----------



## odibrom

Kids these days have it all on a platter, they don't need to fight for stuff, it's given... I still remember the early days of the internet in the mid 90s... modem noises connecting to the server kind of similar to loading games for the ZX Spectrum with a K7 tape player... those were the days when one learned "patience" and "reward" in the same lesson...


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> These aren't all flat-mounted/decked/dive-only bridges, they're floating in many cases.



Didn't catch that, hence why I said "strat style", I assumed the butt of the bridge was sitting on wood. Non locking but floating is dumb.


----------



## trem licking

Hilariously, locking trems require LESS maintenance. You have a nut that accepts all the string sizes as well as never needs to be filed. And you never have to lock it at all if you dont want, and will still outperform any normal nut out there. Definitely a lot of assumptions that a non locking nut is "easier"


----------



## cardinal

Yeah, other than needing a wrench to unlock it, locking trems are pretty much always easier to deal with. 

Floating trems are a pain whether they lock or not. But with a locking trem, I still have an easier time maintaining it. 

And I hardly ever use the trem. Except when I'm stuck playing a hardtail and suddenly everything needs a dive and a squeal and I can't do it and I want to smash the guitar.


----------



## Zhysick

cardinal said:


> Yeah, other than needing a wrench to unlock it


Maybe this interests you...

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/27541-tone-vise-announces-new-keyless-locks-for-locking-nuts


----------



## couverdure

> So laziness.
> 
> Damn kids.





> Kids these days have it all on a platter, they don't need to fight for stuff, it's given... I still remember the early days of the internet in the mid 90s... modem noises connecting to the server kind of similar to loading games for the ZX Spectrum with a K7 tape player... those were the days when one learned "patience" and "reward" in the same lesson...


OK, boomers.

All of you will keep debating about trems while I'm still waiting for a production hardtail AZ similar to what Josh Rand has.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

couverdure said:


> OK, boomers.
> 
> All of you will keep debating about trems while I'm still waiting for a production hardtail AZ similar to what Josh Rand has.




Okay zoomer. I’m from the year 2150 and Ibanez still hasn’t released a hard tail az, a new xiphos, or a headless model.

The man who ingested ketchup ended up doing it every year and getting bigger with it. One year he swam ins swimming pool full of ketchup.


----------



## Bdtunn




----------



## TrevorT

Ibanez AZS series! https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/model/azs/

Also 2 new signature models!
Lari Basilio: https://www.ibanez.com/usa/artists/detail/1570.html
Josh Smith: https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/flatv1_00_01.html


----------



## Seabeast2000

Innnnnnnnnnnnnnteresting.

Ibby's being DDOS'd.


----------



## Matt08642

Bdtunn said:


> View attachment 89148



The limp noodle control plate on the hardtail ones kills it for me



TrevorT said:


> Ibanez AZS series! https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/model/azs/
> 
> Also 2 new signature models!
> Lari Basilio: https://www.ibanez.com/usa/artists/detail/1570.html
> Josh Smith: https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/flatv1_00_01.html



Damn I was really hoping the Lari Basilio one would be this:


----------



## mlp187

Why @IBANEZ and @LariBasilio?!?!?!? I want that MF’n AZ!!! Curses to the AZS!!!


----------



## Church2224

So here is the new PIA Color:


----------



## Matt08642

Church2224 said:


> So here is the new PIA Color:



............ Oh my god

It's a shame these are like $76 million dollars


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

I'm totally down with the AZS 'teles' with whammys.

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/js2410_05.html

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/pia3761_00_01.html


----------



## diagrammatiks

Alright Ibanez. You just going to shit on what the letter S should stand for.
We're done.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Initiating but overall underwhelming. I kinda want that Hardtail in blue. Well I did before someone said limp noodle now all I see is a limp noodle


----------



## narad

Damn this looks great in video:


----------



## Albake21

Church2224 said:


> So here is the new PIA Color:


Okay now _that's_ a PIA I can get behind! I wasn't really a fan of the other colors, besides maybe pink.


----------



## Cheap

Honestly super shocked and interested that Josh has been teasing an Ibanez this whole time. That would’ve been so far away my last guess out of everything. Also really loving that blue color on both AZ shapes. Kinda gotta decide between that or the fiore but either way looks like I’m after a new kinda weird looking guitar hahah


----------



## narad

Church2224 said:


> So here is the new PIA Color:



Come to meeee


----------



## Mboogie7

Church2224 said:


> So here is the new PIA Color:



That is the sexiest guitar I’ve ever seen.


----------



## Opion

They brought back the FR shape! FINALLY!


----------



## diagrammatiks

Opion said:


> They brought back the FR shape! FINALLY!



the fr is a 24 fret guitar. angry face.


----------



## BigPhi84




----------



## Thep

the square pickup ring is such an eye sore next rounded bridge. 




That quilt is weak af too.

Too bad, because I love the concept.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Thep said:


> the square pickup ring is such an eye sore next rounded bridge.
> 
> View attachment 89155
> 
> 
> That quilt is weak af too.
> 
> Too bad, because I love the concept.



Anderson got it right in my opinion, they just put the tele-style bridge pickup in the guitar with a normal hardtail bridge and it was spot on already. This just makes the guitar look like a 70's hack job, but not in a good way


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Church2224 said:


> So here is the new PIA Color:


I can't even fathom how many people were hard at work to pick this color combination

Also why roasted maple on the teles


----------



## diagrammatiks

Thep said:


> the square pickup ring is such an eye sore next rounded bridge.
> 
> View attachment 89155
> 
> 
> That quilt is weak af too.
> 
> Too bad, because I love the concept.



ibanez where we roll a dice at the end of the design process to see if the pickups are direct mounted or not.


----------



## Musiscience

It's really interesting. Not really into the neck mini-humbucker, as I like traditional SS teles. As much as I was super interested in this, I think I'm going to save up and get an Aristides T/0 at some point.


----------



## LordHar

Saw the new Jon Gomm signature model, not my type of music but I really liked how it looked. Then I checked the price and at first thought I had the currency set wrong. (It's 3500 euros / 4220 USD )


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

narad said:


> Damn this looks great in video:




I kinda of want this


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Thep said:


> the square pickup ring is such an eye sore next rounded bridge.
> 
> View attachment 89155
> 
> 
> That quilt is weak af too.
> 
> Too bad, because I love the concept.




Yeahhh this irked me when I saw it. I was like "Ooooo tele bridge *zoom in* EWWWWW metal square. On the solid colors you could probably take it off easily enough.


----------



## profwoot

Is the rubber sock on the Pia and JS trem bars a new thing?


----------



## nickgray

Turd-shaped plate. Why?


----------



## Supernaut

Thep said:


> the square pickup ring is such an eye sore next rounded bridge.
> 
> View attachment 89155
> 
> 
> That quilt is weak af too.
> 
> Too bad, because I love the concept.



Urgh, I hate that. It's because Ibanez is simply re-using parts from the S-type. Of course, you can't blame them because I imagine the costs for re-tooling a T-specific term would be immense, but that really is an eye-sore. I wish they would have re-scaled the bridge plate to have the same footprint.


----------



## Wc707

This is probably all Ibanez is dropping this year, isn't it?


----------



## devastone

That's the only color PIA I've liked, I'm still not a fan of gold except on LP Customs, but it works better on the black in kinda the same way, although it's still a bit over the top, but we are talking about Mr. Vai.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

profwoot said:


> Is the rubber sock on the Pia and JS trem bars a new thing?



The bars are carbon fiber, so they're solid (no bending), while being practically weightless. 

Vai personally pushed for the development of these, even saying he would have an outside company do it, so Ibanez made it happen.

Most folks don't care, but I've been seeing them more and more.


----------



## cardinal

I suddenly want a 6-string guitar. The black PIA is awesome. 

The carbon bar feels super cool FWIW.


----------



## Shredrrr

Bdtunn said:


> View attachment 89148



I like the concept but visually it's a swing and a miss. I don't see these selling. I'll probably grab one when they get blown out at $999.


----------



## Phlegethon

New AZR series looks horrible, and has questionable design choices. And don't get me started on that shit shaped control cover. What the hell, Ibanez?


----------



## TrevorT

... I like the look of the AZS, especially the AZS2209H (the traditional-looking one) and the Josh Smith signature. That control cover shape allows the pickup selector be be angled (while still in-line with the plate itself), which is much more ergonomic (at least in my experience).

Edit: I suppose they could have angled the pickup selector on a normal straight control cover, but meh. I like how it's different. I don't think it looks bad at all.


----------



## MFB

Those ARZs (I'm azzuming that's the Tele one we're all talking about) could have been something, but that control plate with that pickguard? And vintage saddles over individual? Bitch please.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

AZS are cool! I don't mind the control plate at all, but the pickup plate is definitely kind of goofy.

Still holding out hope for a couple more Prestige 7-strings on the 21st.


----------



## ImNotAhab

Damn. This looks great.
Apologies if this was already posted.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/is-lari-basilio-ibanezs-next-signature-artist


----------



## Shredrrr

MFB said:


> Those ARZs (I'm azzuming that's the Tele one we're all talking about) could have been something, but that control plate with that pickguard? And vintage saddles over individual? Bitch please.



Ibanez has been going after this market for so long, tried and failed most recently with roadcores and talmans. They finally figured it out with the AZ and knocked it out of the park. Building on the formula this year they released the AZN which continues with the classic look/sound with modern playability. I think it will be an enormous hit.

Now we get to the AZS. You had the formula down, all you had to do was go tele instead of strat. Make it look and sound like a tele with better upper fret access, stainless frets, roasted maple neck, and modern radius. Instead we get a weird pickguard and control plate? Minibucker in the neck? It just looks so weird, I can't see them stealing people away from Fender or Suhr.


----------



## Shredrrr

Shredrrr said:


> Ibanez has been going after this market for so long, tried and failed most recently with roadcores and talmans. They finally figured it out with the AZ and knocked it out of the park. Building on the formula this year they released the AZN which continues with the classic look/sound with modern playability. I think it will be an enormous hit.
> 
> Now we get to the AZS. You had the formula down, all you had to do was go tele instead of strat. Make it look and sound like a tele with better upper fret access, stainless frets, roasted maple neck, and modern radius. Instead we get a weird pickguard and control plate? Minibucker in the neck? It just looks so weird, I can't see them stealing people away from Fender or Suhr.



Josh Smith one looks much better to my eye. The pickguard shape and tele neck pickup work better. Still the ugly control plate but I can live with it.


----------



## Opion

diagrammatiks said:


> the fr is a 24 fret guitar. angry face.



Wow this is my first time being sevenstring.org'd


----------



## MFB

All they had to do was make the FR with a normal looking pickguard, and they somehow managed to churn out ...those.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The LB1 is fucking killer.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sad they didn't go with the thicc sparkle, but that's a purdy purple.


----------



## nickgray

I just couldn't resist, sorry...


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Now with the advent of the AZS, time to write an open post to Joe Satriani....

Joe, your new sig is fantastic as always, and a nice recreation of the Sky Blue JSs you've been using a lot. But being an avid Tele/Esquire user, and you've championed it on many interviews, maybe it's time to get an AZS variation of that LACS 4 pickup tele you used back in the Time Machine/Self Titled years.













Yeah I'm dreaming but why not eh?


----------



## Hollowway

nickgray said:


> I just couldn't resist, sorry...
> 
> View attachment 89170


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Shredrrr said:


> Now we get to the AZS. You had the formula down, all you had to do was go tele instead of strat. Make it look and sound like a tele with better upper fret access, stainless frets, roasted maple neck, and modern radius. Instead we get a weird pickguard and control plate? Minibucker in the neck? It just looks so weird, I can't see them stealing people away from Fender or Suhr.



Agreed, 100%.

It’s like they took the formula for the AZ and formula for the Tele and instead of crafting a guitar from the best of both, they simply chucked everything in a bowl, shoved it in the microwave for 5 minutes and then slapped it on a plate...

WTF Ibanez? WTF?


----------



## ManOnTheEdge

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Agreed, 100%.
> 
> It’s like they took the formula for the AZ and formula for the Tele and instead of crafting a guitar from the best of both, they simply chucked everything in a bowl, shoved it in the microwave for 5 minutes and then slapped it on a plate...
> 
> WTF Ibanez? WTF?



they should have made the AZS more akin to the LB1, T styles don’t need a control plate


----------



## diagrammatiks

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Agreed, 100%.
> 
> It’s like they took the formula for the AZ and formula for the Tele and instead of crafting a guitar from the best of both, they simply chucked everything in a bowl, shoved it in the microwave for 5 minutes and then slapped it on a plate...
> 
> WTF Ibanez? WTF?



guys we don't already have a tele shape that we could just throw this neck and bridge on do we?






no? ok let's start from scratch.

There's one dude at ibanez who is just so angry that direct mount is a thing.


----------



## Musiscience

Kinda warming up to it now. The Magic Touch seems like a wise choice. Ibanez used it in some of their past archtops, so it will be able to do that tele neck pup jazz thing. Additionally, they may have put a mini humbucker so the split mode would be similar to an undersized tele neck pup. Now I can't wait for clips to arrive.


----------



## binz

Is it a regular thing that the US market models eventually come to the EU market or should I not get my hopes up? Sti pining at that cheap pink sparkle RG standard series model..


----------



## MaxOfMetal

binz said:


> Is it a regular thing that the US market models eventually come to the EU market or should I not get my hopes up? Sti pining at that cheap pink sparkle RG standard series model..



Just email the distributor for your region. They choose which models they import, but are usually open to ordering something "out of region" if you have cash in hand.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Wondering if I should keep my hopes up of a headless or not.


----------



## Louis Cypher




----------



## binz

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just email the distributor for your region. They choose which models they import, but are usually open to ordering something "out of region" if you have cash in hand.


I did at thomann and they said they couldn't get it. So my question was more if they (as in Ibanez) sometimes change their minds on which models come to which markets / distributors (as you cna see I have no idea how big international brands work)


----------



## Soya

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Wondering if I should keep my hopes up of a headless or not.


I wouldn't hold your breath, they'll probably be scalped on Reverb anyway.


----------



## I play music

binz said:


> I did at thomann and they said they couldn't get it. So my question was more if they (as in Ibanez) sometimes change their minds on which models come to which markets / distributors (as you cna see I have no idea how big international brands work)


The RGB we already had last year, North America got them new for this year. If the model you want sells incredibly well over there then I guess maybe next year will also be here. But don't ask me how often those things happen.

Thomann is not the distributor AFAIK, they are just a shop that gets guitars from the distributor.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Soya said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath, they'll probably be scalped on Reverb anyway.



like everything lmao


----------



## cardinal

Soya said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath, they'll probably be scalped on Reverb anyway.





r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> like everything lmao



I swear you guys wanna make some money, seems like you could see whatever it is I'm selling at the moment and wait for it's value to triple in few months. Just sold a Matchless DC30 so I fully expect them to go out of business and all their amps to soon be worth like $8,000.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

cardinal said:


> I swear you guys wanna make some money, seems like you could see whatever it is I'm selling at the moment and wait for it's value to triple in few months. Just sold a Matchless DC30 so I fully expect them to go out of business and all their amps to soon be worth like $8,000.


I don’t scalp. If I wanted to make money, I’d work on my masters degree and all my project management certs


----------



## BTS

Is this it for 2021? Is there anything more coming (other artist sigs?).


----------



## Vyn

BTS said:


> Is this it for 2021? Is there anything more coming (other artist sigs?).



This will be it for now. Possibly something new/cool announced next quarter and so on but the bulk of this year's line-up is locked in. The pandemic probably has a bit to do with it however this is one of the most mediocre years for Ibanez that I can remember.


----------



## BTS

Vyn said:


> This will be it for now. Possibly something new/cool announced next quarter and so on but the bulk of this year's line-up is locked in. The pandemic probably has a bit to do with it however this is one of the most mediocre years for Ibanez that I can remember.



Cheers... yeah, id had my hopes up for something a bit different than what came out.


----------



## potatohead

cardinal said:


> I swear you guys wanna make some money, seems like you could see whatever it is I'm selling at the moment and wait for it's value to triple in few months. Just sold a Matchless DC30 so I fully expect them to go out of business and all their amps to soon be worth like $8,000.



So... What else do you have for sale..?


----------



## potatohead

I mostly need another seven string but those 565's are hard to ignore


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

I bet they'll sell a ton of those AZ 7-strings but really was hoping for some more Prestige RG 7's. Oh well.


----------



## bmth4111

Just surprised they can make so many variations of rgs but never a blank ebony fretboard rg prestige with a low pro...


----------



## TheShreddinHand

On the AZs, if I switch the hyperions for a different set of Seymour Duncan’s, will the dyna-mix5 switching still work?


----------



## potatohead

TheShreddinHand said:


> On the AZs, if I switch the hyperions for a different set of Seymour Duncan’s, will the dyna-mix5 switching still work?



Assuming all you change is the pickups, and the pickups are splittable, and you don't mess up the wiring... Yes.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bmth4111 said:


> Just surprised they can make so many variations of rgs but never a blank ebony fretboard rg prestige with a low pro...


----------



## odibrom

... and someone will say something like

I hate Bare Knuckle pickups
A tone knob, really, it's metal bro
is that a white binding I see on the body, why no binding on the neck and headstock?
is it SS frets?
NO? how can they, hard NO
YES? Mixed with BK pickups it will be ringing treble everywhere, hard NO

If this was a J.Custom I'd be all over it
Damn, I bet it will have J.Custom price tag
Why not all black hardware? Was it asking too much?
... and so on...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> ... and someone will say something like
> 
> I hate Bare Knuckle pickups
> A tone knob, really, it's metal bro
> is that a white binding I see on the body, why no binding on the neck and headstock?
> is it SS frets?
> NO? how can they, hard NO
> YES? Mixed with BK pickups it will be ringing treble everywhere, hard NO
> 
> If this was a J.Custom I'd be all over it
> Damn, I bet it will have J.Custom price tag
> Why not all black hardware? Was it asking too much?
> ... and so on...



When folks say they want "x" what they really mean is they want "x-50% MAP". 

Needless to say, the Uppercut series didn't last too long due to tepid sales.


----------



## Thep

bmth4111 said:


> Just surprised they can make so many variations of rgs but never a blank ebony fretboard rg prestige with a low pro...



Close enough. Just dye the rosewood lol


----------



## 27InchScale

RG20270XL.
•Dimarzio Pockups
•Ebony Fretboard
•Stainless Steel frets
•Neck, Body and Headstock white binding
•Luminlays
•Lo Pro Tremolo
•27” Scale

Had everything I ever wanted. So I bought two....


----------



## Steinmetzify

Just checking in to see if they did Jake’s blue one yet.


----------



## bmth4111

Should have specified sevenstring (in my head its default on this site lol).

Rosewood is a no go but that’s close!!! And the rosewood 7 wasn’t released in the us right? 


That limited run rg20270xl is awesome, but I played the regular standard issue one and couldn’t jive with the neck feel/how it played. I generally like 25.5 scaled sevens better tho. 

So I’m guessing there still isn’t a regular scaled 7 with those specs? The rg20270xl limited silver ( like 10made right) is the closest.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Just saw Danish Pete and Rabea fiddling with the AZs
Assuming I had 2 Grands, that's not the guitar I would buy, but those guitars are damn legit and I can totally see how Ibanez will sell them like hotcakes
So despite my letdown on not seeing a product that appeases me, I totally have to say good job Ibby


----------



## binz

Geetarguy said:


> RG20270XL.
> •Dimarzio Pockups
> •Ebony Fretboard
> •Stainless Steel frets
> •Neck, Body and Headstock white binding
> •Luminlays
> •Lo Pro Tremolo
> •27” Scale
> 
> Had everything I ever wanted. So I bought two....


Was this some special issue in white or did you have it painted? I can only find the blue rg2027xl


----------



## Lada The Great

binz said:


> Was this some special issue in white or did you have it painted? I can only find the blue rg2027xl


Axe Palace limited run


----------



## aesthyrian

The general rule is that when you see an Ibanez with a finish you love, chances are very high that it was an extremely limited axe palace custom run. Ibanez should just let them design a production model already.


----------



## chris9

yep you are so right let nick have control of the ibanez design team for a few weeks. We want crazy colours with 7 strings, reverse headstocks and matching pickup colours bin those fxxking boring black pickups.

This one was the right colour stock it just needed mods to make it cool ha now i love it
Ibanez RG752M DY Modded | SevenString.org


----------



## Wc707

aesthyrian said:


> The general rule is that when you see an Ibanez with a finish you love, chances are very high that it was an extremely limited axe palace custom run. Ibanez should just let them design a production model already.


The pain is too real.


----------



## diagrammatiks

aesthyrian said:


> The general rule is that when you see an Ibanez with a finish you love, chances are very high that it was an extremely limited axe palace custom run. Ibanez should just let them design a production model already.



ibanez should just finish their guitars in primer


----------



## maliciousteve

As much as I'm liking new offerings from Ibanez. I'd really love them to bring back the Xiphos. Either 6 or 7 string Iron Label and a Prestige would be amazing.


----------



## Seabeast2000

maliciousteve said:


> As much as I'm liking new offerings from Ibanez. I'd really love them to bring back the Xiphos. Either 6 or 7 string Iron Label and a Prestige would be amazing.



"Just get a Tartarus"

To clarify, this is really the way to go for a Xiphos shape. Seems to be high value as well with a crapton more build options.


----------



## bzhang9

aesthyrian said:


> The general rule is that when you see an Ibanez with a finish you love, chances are very high that it was an extremely limited axe palace custom run. Ibanez should just let them design a production model already.



Thing is, most of those bright, weird, limited colors don't sell well to the masses. Ibanez are not marketing retards like everyone seems to think, they make what sells. Look at the used market, for every RG7620VK there is 10 black or blue, because they sold. Same goes for most of their models.


----------



## 27InchScale

bmth4111 said:


> Should have specified sevenstring (in my head its default on this site lol).
> 
> Rosewood is a no go but that’s close!!! And the rosewood 7 wasn’t released in the us right?
> 
> 
> That limited run rg20270xl is awesome, but I played the regular standard issue one and couldn’t jive with the neck feel/how it played. I generally like 25.5 scaled sevens better tho.
> 
> So I’m guessing there still isn’t a regular scaled 7 with those specs? The rg20270xl limited silver ( like 10made right) is the closest.



I know if you want 25.5” scale, with stainless steel frets a 5000 Prestige will fit that bill my dude.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

steinmetzify said:


> Just checking in to see if they did Jake’s blue one yet.



Or the red one.


----------



## 27InchScale

binz said:


> Was this some special issue in white or did you have it painted? I can only find the blue rg2027xl



It was a limited run designed by @zimbloth for Axe Palace. It is actually Satin Silver Metallic, from Ibanez that way. Stainless steel frets, a blank ebony board (stock have offset dots) and AP will put whatever pickups you want in them. They only made 12 for that run. Ive seen a few B stock/blemished that didnt pass QC on ebay lately. But they want way too much for them also.


----------



## Matt08642

I blame Kiesel type builders and the djent breakdowns crowd for the disgusting bullshit finishes of the past few years. Poplar burl is disgusting and extreme bevels look gross.

For the hardware side, separate switches for coil splitting sucks (Ibanez 5 way HSH or HH wiring is god tier)

Each Ibanez I think is perfect ends up with one or two "Let's branch out from the traditional RG stuff" things that make me not want it anymore.

HSH with rosewood and a lopro? ahhhh stupid coil split switch and JPM style pickup selector, no thanks.

My 2550 has spoiled me with the exact electronics layout I want and fretboard binding


----------



## cip 123

Matt08642 said:


> I blame Kiesel type builders and the djent breakdowns crowd for the disgusting bullshit finishes of the past few years. Poplar burl is disgusting and extreme bevels look gross.
> 
> For the hardware side, separate switches for coil splitting sucks (Ibanez 5 way HSH or HH wiring is god tier)
> 
> Each Ibanez I think is perfect ends up with one or two "Let's branch out from the traditional RG stuff" things that make me not want it anymore.
> 
> HSH with rosewood and a lopro? ahhhh stupid coil split switch and JPM style pickup selector, no thanks.
> 
> My 2550 has spoiled me with the exact electronics layout I want and fretboard binding


So you already have the exact guitar you want?


----------



## diagrammatiks

cip 123 said:


> So you already have the exact guitar you want?



yes. obviously everyone already has the exact Ibanez they want. they just want more of that exact one.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Ibanez fanboys are the worst to please. I say this as someone who loves the brand.

I honestly like that they are branching out and trying new things each year. That is how you innovate.


----------



## Matt08642

cip 123 said:


> So you already have the exact guitar you want?



The closest to my "dream Ibanez" as I can get at the moment, yes. I want more for other tunings/pickups/etc, I just really like the traditional Ibanez control layout/pickup combo, light basswood bodies, and AANJ.

My 2550 was also $600 Canadian used (less than $500 USD), which makes it hard to take the plunge on a $3000 guitar like this that still falls short of a few of my wants:









diagrammatiks said:


> yes. obviously everyone already has the exact Ibanez they want. they just want more of that exact one.



This!



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Ibanez fanboys are the worst to please. I say this as someone who loves the brand.
> 
> I honestly like that they are branching out and trying new things each year. That is how you innovate.



I think a push pull/push push pot for coil splitting would have been more graceful than a switch that looks a bit cramped to me. IMO it was more innovative to integrate the splitting in to the 5 way


----------



## odibrom

Push/pull or push/push pots are interesting for hiding switches/functions, but are awful to work with. You can inadvertently change the setting of the pot activating the switch and vice-versa... I still have a guitar with these but only because it has a nightmare of a circuit that I'm running away from to change it...


----------



## possumkiller

Matt08642 said:


> My 2550 was also $600 Canadian used (less than $500 USD)


Jesus! Where did you steal that from?


----------



## Matt08642

possumkiller said:


> Jesus! Where did you steal that from?



Got it used locally a few years ago, I still don't know how it was even up for sale long enough for me to drive to the guys house  Love that guitar, it barely even needed any work (just polished the frets and oiled the fretboard and it was good to go)


----------



## Musiscience

So there is finally a demo of the AZS.


----------



## 0rimus

Well, at least we got some 7 string AZ's I guess.

*checks price*

Well. At least the bourgeoisie got 7 string AZ's.


----------



## USMarine75

Couldn't decide between green and orange... so I preordered both. 




I think I'll sell something to fund one of these. It ticks too many boxes for me.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Anyone know if Ibanez completely dropped a 5000 series 7 from their lineup or if one is yet to be announced? I would have bought that green one last year if it had a lo pro.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheShreddinHand said:


> Anyone know if Ibanez completely dropped a 5000 series 7 from their lineup or if one is yet to be announced? I would have bought that green one last year if it had a lo pro.



Seems like it. Maybe it'll pop up in another region, but it's out of most markets I've seen.


----------



## Gunnar

I noticed the FR isn't listed on most Ibanez sites now... Please don't tell me it is gone.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Gunnar said:


> I noticed the FR isn't listed on most Ibanez sites now... Please don't tell me it is gone.



Gone to make way for the AZS.


----------



## gunch

Musiscience said:


> So there is finally a demo of the AZS.




I hate that bright shattered glass edge of breakup tone those kind of players have a giant hard on for these days


----------



## mlp187

I thought that tone was great! Different strokes for different folks!

I still dislike the aesthetics of the guitar though.


----------



## Jebe-

gunch said:


> I hate that bright shattered glass edge of breakup tone those kind of players have a giant hard on for these days



I kinda agree that the tone can be quite ear piercing when you hear only the guitar, but it propably is a nice tone in a band mix.
Guitar itself is pretty, but the half trem/half tele bridge baseplate looks somewhat strange to my eyes.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

gunch said:


> I hate that bright shattered glass edge of breakup tone those kind of players have a giant hard on for these days



Tom Quayle is obviously an insanely good player and this is clearly what young players influenced by YouTube guitarists want, but that tone is the sort of sound that 30 years ago, when I was just starting out on electric guitar, was ridiculed as only achievable through the perfect combination of lack of experience, poor taste and terrible gear.


----------



## diagrammatiks

sounds ok for that style. 

none of my tele type guitars sound like that


----------



## Supernaut

That guitar looks sick, until you look at the bridge/pick-up plate and then it's like ehhhhhhh


----------



## Musiscience

gunch said:


> I hate that bright shattered glass edge of breakup tone those kind of players have a giant hard on for these days



Not my favorite tone either. I'm waiting for more demos with other styles of music.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

MaxOfMetal said:


> Seems like it. Maybe it'll pop up in another region, but it's out of most markets I've seen.



That’s a shame. Here’s to hoping a 5000 series 7 with a lo pro will be a thing in the future!


----------



## I play music

Musiscience said:


> So there is finally a demo of the AZS.



As much as I hate the guitar itself, the one-way trem I like more than the AZ free floating one ..


----------



## Shredrrr

I play music said:


> As much as I hate the guitar itself, the one-way trem I like more than the AZ free floating one ..



The new AZ for this year has a top mount instead of the floating trem from the other models.


----------



## Wuuthrad

This things GASn me right up:




https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rgd61ala_1p_01.html

Anyone care to share a comparable guitar to help me do some comparison shopping? Cheers!


----------



## mlp187

Wuuthrad said:


> This things GASn me right up:
> 
> View attachment 90050
> 
> 
> https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rgd61ala_1p_01.html
> 
> Anyone care to share a comparable guitar to help me do some comparison shopping? Cheers!


I do like this, but I can’t help but wonder if sperzel makes a complimentary green tuner set. That might be enough to push me over the edge.

Edit: Ruh-roh


----------



## Wuuthrad

mlp187 said:


> View attachment 90056
> 
> I do like this, but I can’t help but wonder if sperzel makes a complimentary green tuner set. That might be enough to push me over the edge.
> 
> Edit: Ruh-roh



The stock Gotohs look pretty good, but that green Sperzel does look nice. What really interests me, in addition to the 26.5 scale, is this:


----------



## odibrom

Wuuthrad said:


> The stock Gotohs look pretty good, but that green Sperzel does look nice. What really interests me, in addition to the 26.5 scale, is this:
> 
> View attachment 90061



You can get all those tones with a Freeway 3X3-05 switch...


----------



## Wuuthrad

odibrom said:


> You can get all those tones with a Freeway 3X3-05 switch...



First I would need a 26.5 scale Ibanez with fishman fluence, or similar. You know of anything?


----------



## pahulkster

Wuuthrad said:


> This things GASn me right up:
> 
> View attachment 90050
> 
> 
> https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rgd61ala_1p_01.html
> 
> Anyone care to share a comparable guitar to help me do some comparison shopping? Cheers!



Not sure if you'd find one but the Solar DVV is kind of close but opposite colors (if that makes any sense).


----------



## Merrekof

I just realized the FR models are gone in Europe.. too bad, they had potential imo.

Those new AZS seem to be the replacement series. I'm still trying to adapt..


----------



## odibrom

Wuuthrad said:


> First I would need a 26.5 scale Ibanez with fishman fluence, or similar. You know of anything?



I'm sure the Ibanez catalogue has some options in that scale range and with Fishman pickups... I was referring to the previous shown switching options that could be achieved with only one switch...


----------



## jco5055

Did we ever hear what happened to that "semi-custom range" of Ibby's that were supposed to be a 2021 thing?


----------



## JimF

Everyone lost interest when we found out the vine inlay was mandatory


----------



## Seabeast2000

JimF said:


> Everyone lost interest when we found out the vine inlay was mandatory



yes, turns out the TOL is an invasive species.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jco5055 said:


> Did we ever hear what happened to that "semi-custom range" of Ibby's that were supposed to be a 2021 thing?



Meinel was just hyping the exclusive model process already in place and used by various shops. 

Maybe it was something lost in translation, but that's all it was. Perhaps they'd eat a few orders off the batch to make it more attractive, but Fujigen can barely keep up with current offerings.


----------



## Wuuthrad

odibrom said:


> I'm sure the Ibanez catalogue has some options in that scale range and with Fishman pickups... I was referring to the previous shown switching options that could be achieved with only one switch...



https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rgdr4427fx_00_01.html

As far as I can see they don’t. This guitar is the only 26.5 scale Ibanez with Fishmans, which is precisely is why I was interested in it. 

What production guitars use the switch you mention in a 6 string 26.5 scale with Fishmans? 

Also curious about other 6 string 26.5 scale guitars. Seems like Schecter isn’t offering any, and the Hellraiser EX1 or Scorpion are no longer in production. Maybe Dean?


----------



## odibrom

Wuuthrad said:


> https://www.ibanez.com/eu/products/detail/rgdr4427fx_00_01.html
> 
> As far as I can see they don’t. This guitar is the only 26.5 scale Ibanez with Fishmans, which is precisely is why I was interested in it.
> 
> What production guitars use the switch you mention in a 6 string 26.5 scale with Fishmans?
> 
> Also curious about other 6 string 26.5 scale guitars. Seems like Schecter isn’t offering any, and the Hellraiser EX1 or Scorpion are no longer in production. Maybe Dean?



The linked guitar has DiMarzios, not Fishmans and AFAIK, no Ibanez guitar has a Freeway switch, I was suggesting them as an easy/cheap upgrade to achieve those tonal options.

The Axion Label series feature several 6 stringers with Fishman pickups as well as a multiscale 7 stringer. None feature a Freeway switch.


----------



## Wuuthrad

odibrom said:


> The linked guitar has DiMarzios, not Fishmans and AFAIK, no Ibanez guitar has a Freeway switch, I was suggesting them as an easy/cheap upgrade to achieve those tonal options.
> 
> The Axion Label series feature several 6 stringers with Fishman pickups as well as a multiscale 7 stringer. None feature a Freeway switch.




I’m confused why your posting this info about a switch, as I wasn’t asking for advice on how to do upgrades.

Considering this is the Ibanez guitar 2021 thread, I posted a new Ibanez I was interested in, and also wanted to compare it to other 26.5 scale guitars with Fishmans. Do you know of any, outside of the Evertune Ibanez? (I’m not interested in ET)


----------



## odibrom

My posting about the switch was simply a comment about being able to achieve those tones from a guitar that from factory could not, that's all. About what you're after, remember that Fishmans are also available to be installed in an after market scenario. That multiscale 7 stringer has Fishmans and doesn't have an Evertune.


----------



## gunch

You know what would be cool 

Exotic Wood RGA


----------



## JimF

I don't know what I want exactly, but I know I don't want anything they've put out this year


----------



## ManOnTheEdge

New fixed bridge prestige RGXL 7 would tick my boxes, not a fan of the richlite tops on the RGDR’s (can you even do a refin on them?)


----------



## JimF

I like the aesthetic of the contrasting Richlite top and mahogany body (or mahogany coloured body) but I wouldn't say I'd be in the market to buy one. 6 string, I'd be very interested.


----------



## odibrom

Those are cool, and if money was no object, I'd buy both of them, so I could have one with a trem and one without a trem...


----------



## Wc707

JimF said:


> I like the aesthetic of the contrasting Richlite top and mahogany body (or mahogany coloured body) but I wouldn't say I'd be in the market to buy one. 6 string, I'd be very interested.


Body colors remind me of a frosted chocolate donut

Edit: def would be tempted to eat it


----------



## olejason

JimF said:


> I like the aesthetic of the contrasting Richlite top and mahogany body (or mahogany coloured body) but I wouldn't say I'd be in the market to buy one. 6 string, I'd be very interested.



I love how these turned out. I feel like $2500 is maybe a bit steep but I've had one in my hands to try out I'd probably be tempted.


----------



## Wuuthrad

A multi scale 6 string is also looking pretty tempting, but it looks like Ibanez isn’t offering one for 2021.


----------



## possumkiller

gunch said:


> You know what would be cool
> 
> Exotic Wood RGA


Yeah. An Iron Label RGA with Fishmans and an Evertune. Poplar burl venner with a blue and natural burst finish. Mahogany back stained that red brown color. Throw on some abalone binding. Talk about fucking exotic man!


----------



## diagrammatiks

possumkiller said:


> Yeah. An Iron Label RGA with Fishmans and an Evertune. Poplar burl venner with a blue and natural burst finish. Mahogany back stained that red brown color. Throw on some abalone binding. Talk about fucking exotic man!



mid 2000s schecters are over that way.


----------



## gunch

possumkiller said:


> Yeah. An Iron Label RGA with Fishmans and an Evertune. Poplar burl venner with a blue and natural burst finish. Mahogany back stained that red brown color. Throw on some abalone binding. Talk about fucking exotic man!



that probably already exists


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

gunch said:


> that probably already exists



They did one like that only multiscale and a flame top instead of burl, I think black binding?


----------



## odibrom

TheBolivianSniper said:


> They did one like that only multiscale and a flame top instead of burl, I think black binding?



post a pic of it, good?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

odibrom said:


> post a pic of it, good?



oh nvm, it's an RGD but here's a reverb listing 

Ibanez RGD61ALMS https://reverb.com/item/38022734-ib...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=38022734


----------



## odibrom

I thought you were referring to some special series or edition... but thanks anyway...


----------



## spacebard

New j-custom for 2021

JCRG2103-LBT


----------



## mitou

That's essentially a crackle finish. Love it.


----------



## odibrom

yah... 6k price tag... not for me... can only feast my eyes on it...


----------



## Leviathus

Would be infinitely better with blocky inlays that matched the pickups imo. Not really into the blue dots, and i'm not a dot hater.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

gunch said:


> You know what would be cool
> 
> Exotic Wood RGA



All I want is a hardtail, Prestige 7-string RGA. Please.


----------



## jco5055

if we are working on our wishlist for Ibanez, I'd like the 7 string AZ to come with a form of Edge trem, maybe also get the J Custom treatment.


----------



## Musiscience

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> All I want is a hardtail, Prestige 7-string RGA. Please.



The Japanese have deliberated and decided your wish small not be granted. Better luck next year.


----------



## odibrom

jco5055 said:


> if we are working on our wishlist for Ibanez, I'd like the 7 string AZ to come with a form of Edge trem, maybe also get the J Custom treatment.



The J.Custom treatment might be possible since that's a TIER kind of thing, the Edge bridge I doubt very much it will happen...


----------



## jco5055

odibrom said:


> The J.Custom treatment might be possible since that's a TIER kind of thing, the Edge bridge I doubt very much it will happen...



yeah I know someone mentioned they wouldn't do that because then everyone would just buy AZs instead of RGs haha


----------



## odibrom

jco5055 said:


> yeah I know someone mentioned they wouldn't do that because then everyone would just buy AZs instead of RGs haha



I wouldn't go that far as extrapolating that as a reason. My thought is that the AZ and the newer AZN lines are supposed to find a more traditional Strat tone and feel, which leaves the locking trems out of the concept...


----------



## Matt08642

spacebard said:


> New j-custom for 2021
> 
> JCRG2103-LBT



Is this one of those Jcustoms where 100 total exist on the planet, or can this just be ordered? Looks sick


----------



## c7spheres

Matt08642 said:


> Is this one of those Jcustoms where 100 total exist on the planet, or can this just be ordered? Looks sick



- You can just order it. Sweetwater has one right now. 
- Pfff... It's only $7k USD. What a joke. It's a resin top on an Ibanez guitar that's not much (if any) better than a used Prestige. Yes, I've owned many J-Customs over the years. No they aren't worth 600-700% more money, by any stretch, IMO. They arene't even worth twice as much, imo. before I looked at the specs I was thinking maybe the price was due to using gold leaf or something. Nope. It's plastic. 
- Yes, it looks cool. Is it $7k cool though? 

Keep in mind. You're paying for the looks, the factory it's made in, attention to details like fret ends, plus some minute details which do not translate to a better instrument. It's still subjective and depends on the specific guitar at that point. 
- If you really want it and can afford it then why not? 
- Yes, I have Ibanez "issues". 

- Make my dang RGA Lo-Pro with no inlay Ebony fretboard Ibanez.


----------



## Matt08642

c7spheres said:


> - You can just order it. Sweetwater has one right now.
> - Pfff... It's only $7k USD. What a joke. It's a resin top on an Ibanez guitar that's not much (if any) better than a used Prestige. Yes, I've owned many J-Customs over the years. No they aren't worth 600-700% more money, by any stretch, IMO. They arene't even worth twice as much, imo. before I looked at the specs I was thinking maybe the price was due to using gold leaf or something. Nope. It's plastic.
> - Yes, it looks cool. Is it $7k cool though?
> 
> Keep in mind. You're paying for the looks, the factory it's made in, attention to details like fret ends, plus some minute details which do not translate to a better instrument. It's still subjective and depends on the specific guitar at that point.
> - If you really want it and can afford it then why not?
> - Yes, I have Ibanez "issues".
> 
> - Make my dang RGA Lo-Pro with no inlay Ebony fretboard Ibanez.



7K?






Fuckin nevermind.


----------



## Wc707

Matt08642 said:


> 7K?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fuckin nevermind.


Best use of FF10 ive ever seen. 

Props to you


----------



## shpence

Anyone know why the RGDR4427FX or I guess just the RGD Prestiges are more expensive than a regular Prestige 7? It's probably something obvious but I'm not seeing it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

shpence said:


> Anyone know why the RGDR4427FX or I guess just the RGD Prestiges are more expensive than a regular Prestige 7? It's probably something obvious but I'm not seeing it.



Lower sales and production volume, different specs, _because they can_, etc. etc.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

shpence said:


> Anyone know why the RGDR4427FX or I guess just the RGD Prestiges are more expensive than a regular Prestige 7? It's probably something obvious but I'm not seeing it.



Yeah RGDs in general are expensive as hell. I'd love a prestige one but I just can't afford one. Used they're never below 1k.


----------



## SpaceDock

shpence said:


> Anyone know why the RGDR4427FX or I guess just the RGD Prestiges are more expensive than a regular Prestige 7? It's probably something obvious but I'm not seeing it.



The D costs extra.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Also the longer scale makes them a unique guitar, not a very big seller I would imagine. 

The RGD Iron Label isn’t in production this year! Love the burst sixes from 2017-18.


----------



## Spicypickles

SpaceDock said:


> The D costs extra.


Absolutely. Get paid for what you do well, not what you love


----------



## Wuuthrad

Spicypickles said:


> Absolutely. Get paid for what you do well, not what you love



Hey now, I resemble that remark...


----------



## Wuuthrad

Anyhow, what’s the best “soloist” guitar in this range? Preferably affordable-ish...

Ibanez makes great guitars, but their catalog can be confusing with numbered guitars.

Really takes the spice out of guitar models, I much prefer cool names.


----------



## Vyn

I find it quite amusing these days as:

- The RGD is directly attempting to compete with EBMM and the JP, however at the feature set/price point, most in that market will just buy a JP

- The AZ and derivatives are going after the high end boutique strat/Tele markets and again at the prices they are at, they have managed to snag a bit of the market however most of the market is still spending more and going for something like a Suhr.

Honestly the brand is in quite a bit of trouble I think long term.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Vyn said:


> - The RGD is directly attempting to compete with EBMM and the JP, however at the feature set/price point, most in that market will just buy a JP


----------



## IAO

The thing about the Prestige RGD is it’s considerably more than the Prestige RG2027XL with specs that don’t seem to justify the price difference. It is possible that I’m missing something. 

I know ash is disappearing fast in the US, so I suppose that justifies a premium. But $500 for ash and Richlite and luminlays seems a bit much.

Are these two guitars in different tiers of build quality? 

That extra half inch on the XL scale length is a major plus for me, as is the five way switching. The Fusion Edges seem to sound better on the XL too— don’t know if it’s due to the basswood (I’m usually tonewood agnostic/suspicious) or the slightly longer scale or the Lo-Pro or all of the above. 

I’m sort of shopping these two against each other right now, and looking into the E-II M-II 7B as well. 

Of course, now that I’ve shortlisted it, I can’t seem to find any 2027XLs in stock. 

Thanks, Ibanez. Thibanez.


----------



## odibrom

The Ibanez RGD4327 (trem version) and the RGD4427FX (fixed bidge) are, in my opinion the top tier within the prestige line, either in concept and build, similar to the "Upper cut" from a few years back. The RG 2027XL (again this is my opinion only, speculation if you will) is supposed to be a regular tier Prestige. The RG5227, sit in between as far as I'm aware.

For 2 guitars within the same tier level, an RGD will cost a bit more due to the extra machine time for the carvings to get made. How much time it is, is beyond me and to as is the extra expense justification. It is the same for the Saber models, which are about $300 more than an RG with the same specs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> The Ibanez RGD4327 (trem version) and the RGD4427FX (fixed bidge) are, in my opinion the top tier within the prestige line, either in concept and build, similar to the "Upper cut" from a few years back. The RG 2027XL (again this is my opinion only, speculation if you will) is supposed to be a regular tier Prestige. The RG5227, sit in between as far as I'm aware.
> 
> For 2 guitars within the same tier level, an RGD will cost a bit more due to the extra machine time for the carvings to get made. How much time it is, is beyond me and to as is the extra expense justification. It is the same for the Saber models, which are about $300 more than an RG with the same specs.



Fujigen charges Hoshino a little more and Hoshino passes that down the line. It's not really a spec/time thing, Fujigen operates on a large enough scale to offset that vs. a smaller operation. 

The biggest factor will always just be Ibanez wanting to position the model where it is relative to the rest of the lineup.


----------



## xzacx

Vyn said:


> I find it quite amusing these days as:
> 
> - The RGD is directly attempting to compete with EBMM and the JP, however at the feature set/price point, most in that market will just buy a JP



You're gonna have to explain this one. 

RGD: 26.5 scale, locking trem or hardtail, no piezo
JP: 25.5 scale, non-locking trem, piezo

Even on a very surface level, it's hard to see how this is a "direct" competitor. If someone is in the general market for a 6 or 7 and not looking for something very specific, I can see maybe them considering each. But if they're in the market for something with the JP's feature set, of course they'll buy the JP since the RGD isn't really anything close to it.


----------



## shpence

Vyn said:


> Honestly the brand is in quite a bit of trouble I think long term.



Well they've definitely muddied-up what I thought Prestige meant. Love my RG752LWFXHAB (holy shit I forgot how absurd that name was) but don't want to shell out $600 extra bucks for an additional scale length inch.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Ibanez in trouble? They have over 500 current models in the global market.

from


Spoiler: Ibanez wiki 



https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:2021?useskin=oasis


*Total # of 2021 models*: 546
*New models for 2021*: 72
*Updated in 2021*: 139
*Discontinued from 2020*: 149


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wuuthrad said:


> Ibanez in trouble? They have over 500 current models in the global market.
> 
> from
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ibanez wiki
> 
> 
> 
> https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/Portal:2021?useskin=oasis
> 
> 
> *Total # of 2021 models*: 546
> *New models for 2021*: 72
> *Updated in 2021*: 139
> *Discontinued from 2020*: 149



"Ibanez in trouble" = "They don't make my ideal guitar for under $500"


----------



## couchguitarplayer

xzacx said:


> You're gonna have to explain this one.
> 
> RGD: 26.5 scale, locking trem or hardtail, no piezo
> JP: 25.5 scale, non-locking trem, piezo
> 
> Even on a very surface level, it's hard to see how this is a "direct" competitor. If someone is in the general market for a 6 or 7 and not looking for something very specific, I can see maybe them considering each. But if they're in the market for something with the JP's feature set, of course they'll buy the JP since the RGD isn't really anything close to it.



Totally agree with you on this. I don't see how the musicman JP is in direct competition with the RGD. Two different beast IMO. The only similar thing is the the HH configuration. Neck profile is different, scale lenght, shape, bridges, etc...


----------



## Glades

Ibanez is dead to me until they bring back the Xiphos.


----------



## Merrekof

couchguitarplayer said:


> Totally agree with you on this. I don't see how the musicman JP is in direct competition with the RGD. Two different beast IMO. The only similar thing is the the HH configuration. Neck profile is different, scale lenght, shape, bridges, etc...


I can somewhat see how the carving of ones body might be remeniscint of the other. But again, other than the HH config, I don't see any real similarities.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

I figure that what the RGD was initially conceived as and what it has become are two different things.

Presumably offered as a way of trying to get back sales of JP7s which were very much a go-to at the time, with a similar body shape and extended range, it became something different over the last few years finding its own niche.


----------



## StevenC

shpence said:


> Well they've definitely muddied-up what I thought Prestige meant.


How so?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I figure that what the RGD was initially conceived as and what it has become are two different things.
> 
> Presumably offered as a way of trying to get back sales of JP7s which were very much a go-to at the time, with a similar body shape and extended range, it became something different over the last few years finding its own niche.



Other than finish, the RGD hasn't changed much since launch.

Then:



Now:




Then the current batch of JPs:





The RGD have retained the same scale, roughly the same materials, same pickup configurations, same-ish bridges, etc. since launch.

I had an early run RGD2127 and have an RGD3127, as well as a JP7, and there is absolutely nothing similar in feel between the two platforms.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> Other than finish, the RGD hasn't changed much since launch.
> 
> Then:
> View attachment 91106
> 
> 
> Now:
> View attachment 91107
> View attachment 91108
> 
> 
> Then the current batch of JPs:
> View attachment 91109
> View attachment 91110
> 
> 
> 
> The RGD have retained the same scale, roughly the same materials, same pickup configurations, same-ish bridges, etc. since launch.
> 
> I had an early run RGD2127 and have an RGD3127, as well as a JP7, and there is absolutely nothing similar in feel between the two platforms.


But you're forgetting that the RGD2127 came out the same year as the JPXI and they're both black contoured super strays with a toggle switch in the same place.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> But you're forgetting that the RGD2127 came out the same year as the JPXI and they're both black contoured super strays with a toggle switch in the same place.



Close. The JPXI came out a year after the RGD, in 2011. You're thinking the JPX

The 2010 JP lineup was the JP, BFR, BFR Bari, and JPX which came out that summer.

The JPX and JPXI also eschewed the carved out arm contour for a more traditional curve, very unlike the RGD bevel.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> Other than finish, the RGD hasn't changed much since launch.
> 
> The RGD have retained the same scale, roughly the same materials, same pickup configurations, same-ish bridges, etc. since launch.
> 
> I had an early run RGD2127 and have an RGD3127, as well as a JP7, and there is absolutely nothing similar in feel between the two platforms.



I think you just proved my point though. The JP range was tremendously popular within a niche market. Ibanez wanted a slice of that pie. They produced the RGD, it had a body carve reminiscent of the JP shape, without the funky forearm contour.

Whilst the guitar's physical form hasn't changed the musical environment has and the RGD has gone from being something rumoured to be intended to run directly against the JP in the djent market, to a more generic "metal" guitar.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I think you just proved my point though. The JP range was tremendously popular within a niche market. Ibanez wanted a slice of that pie. They produced the RGD, it had a body carve reminiscent of the JP shape, without the funky forearm contour.
> 
> Whilst the guitar's physical form hasn't changed the musical environment has and the RGD has gone from being something rumoured to be intended to run directly against the JP in the djent market, to a more generic "metal" guitar.



The RGD was never meant to compete with the JP. Full stop. 

It was developed from an old 90's design that predates Petrucci's involvement with EBMM to be a "sharper" more "metal" version of the RG aimed at the contemporary metal scene, hence the launch artists (which Ibanez chooses specifically) being guys mostly in metalcore, deathcore, and other extreme metal bands. It was built for chugs basically. 

Even stuff like the controls were positioned to not get in the way of folks hamfisting breakdowns. 

I'm not speculating here, and I'll leave it at that.


----------



## diagrammatiks

not more then one person has ever confused a jp with an rgd.

if anything the 24 fret az is trying to hazily steal some buyers.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> not more then one person has ever confused a jp with an rgd.
> 
> if anything the 24 fret az is trying to hazily steal some buyers.



Actual photo of that one person:


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> "Ibanez in trouble" = "They don't make my ideal guitar for under $500"





diagrammatiks said:


> not more then one person has ever confused a jp with an rgd.
> 
> if anything the 24 fret az is trying to hazily steal some buyers.


Yep, along with the new AZS models, I feel Ibanez is definetely looking at Fenders customers. At first glance these appear to be copies with same specs and a bit more modern details liķe the headstock or Tele/AZS control plate.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> Yep, along with the new AZS models, I feel Ibanez is definetely looking at Fenders customers. At first glance these appear to be copies with same specs and a bit more modern details liķe the headstock or Tele/AZS control plate.



They're more after the boutique segment, stuff like Suhr and Anderson that they can have near identical specs with, but also be able to undercut them price wise. There's too much "traditional" baggage with Fender, who can also heavily control thier pricing. 

The target is folks who want a Suhr or Anderson but either can't or won't spend that money and don't have the patience to wait for a build. 

The jury is still out on the AZS, but the AZ has been wildly successful.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're more after the boutique segment, stuff like Suhr and Anderson that they can have near identical specs with, but also be able to undercut them price wise. There's too much "traditional" baggage with Fender, who can also heavily control thier pricing.
> 
> The target is folks who want a Suhr or Anderson but either can't or won't spend that money and don't have the patience to wait for a build.
> 
> The jury is still out on the AZS, but the AZ has been wildly successful.


You could be right. Suhr and Anderson are not well known to me so all I see is Fender. I'm not sure about the AZS line. The FR line didn't go to well, I assume. Since they stopped making new FRs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> You could be right. Suhr and Anderson are not well known to me so all I see is Fender. I'm not sure about the AZS line. The FR line didn't go to well, I assume. Since they stopped making new FRs.



Yeah, the FR was something of a sales dud. Which is unfortunate because they were pretty cool. But, in typical Ibanez fashion, it was a great platform that they did absolutely nothing interesting with.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, the FR was something of a sales dud. Which is unfortunate because they were pretty cool. But, in typical Ibanez fashion, it was a great platform that they did absolutely nothing interesting with.


Exactly. I feel they started off well with two prestige models and an entry level model. The FR uppercut was (and still is) on my wanted list. After that, the FR line didn't do much anymore interesting imo.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> It was developed from an old 90's design that predates Petrucci's involvement with EBMM to be a "sharper" more "metal" version of the RG aimed at the contemporary metal scene, hence the launch artists (which Ibanez chooses specifically) being guys mostly in metalcore, deathcore, and other extreme metal bands. It was built for chugs basically.



Built for chugs, agreed. Aimed at guys in metalcore, dethcore and other extreme metal bands, agreed. For sale to guys who were also considering purchasing a ... custom shop Tele?

If you think back to that time, loads of guys playing chugs of superstrats wanted an EBMM JP, it was de regueur. Whether Mr Hoshino himself told you or not, this guitar was part of an effort to get back some of the customers they lost when when they lost Petrucci and saw the success of his model in the very subsectors of metal that you mention.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> this guitar was part of an effort to get back some of the customers they lost when when they lost Petrucci and saw the success of his model in the very subsectors of metal that you mention.



You're wrong, but that's okay.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're wrong, but that's okay.



Thanks, Max. I’m sure I’ll cope.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, the FR was something of a sales dud. Which is unfortunate because they were pretty cool. But, in typical Ibanez fashion, it was a great platform that they did absolutely nothing interesting with.



I just don't understand why they needed an azs when they already had the fr but what ever.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> I just don't understand why they needed an azs when they already had the fr but what ever.



Ibanez gonna Ibanez.

I always thought they should have used the Saber for AZ development. They've already flirted with that with the SV. It's come in 22 and 24 fret variants already as well.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ibanez gonna Ibanez.
> 
> I always thought they should have used the Saber for AZ development. They've already flirted with that with the SV. It's come in 22 and 24 fret variants already as well.



But at the same time, Ibanez knows that the S body shape costs more to produce due to simply more CNC time and doesn’t sell as well as they’d like anyway. Whether the forums like it or not, despite coming up with some weird ideas, Ibanez is never shy about quickly canning anything that does shift units.

The AZ is a massive sales success by any account I’ve heard. The S, not so much.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> But at the same time, Ibanez knows that the S body shape costs more to produce due to simply more CNC time and doesn’t sell as well as they’d like anyway. Whether the forums like it or not, despite coming up with some weird ideas, Ibanez is never shy about quickly canning anything that does shift units.
> 
> The AZ is a massive sales success by any account I’ve heard. The S, not so much.



Cheaper for at least the first few years to use existing platforms, especially those in continuous production, vs. developing new stuff from the ground up. 

I just ordered two AZ7s and don't own any Sabers, so I'm definitely in agreement.


----------



## Wc707

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ibanez gonna Ibanez.
> 
> I always thought they should have used the Saber for AZ development. They've already flirted with that with the SV. It's come in 22 and 24 fret variants already as well.


The AZ7s are listed as "After May" with a lot of sellers. What're the chances they actually come by summer?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Wc707 said:


> The AZ7s are listed as "After May" with a lot of sellers. What're the chances they actually come by summer?



Snowball's chance in Hell? 

I'm expecting closer to Halloween.


----------



## diagrammatiks

_MonSTeR_ said:


> But at the same time, Ibanez knows that the S body shape costs more to produce due to simply more CNC time and doesn’t sell as well as they’d like anyway. Whether the forums like it or not, despite coming up with some weird ideas, Ibanez is never shy about quickly canning anything that does shift units.
> 
> The AZ is a massive sales success by any account I’ve heard. The S, not so much.



counterpoint -
the talman
still exists.


----------



## kuma

I was actually more shocked they didn't use the Talman, they had just reintroduced it recently, seems like it would've been a great T-style platform. Guess it didn't do well. I would love an AZ-ified SV though.


----------



## Wc707

MaxOfMetal said:


> Snowball's chance in Hell?
> 
> I'm expecting closer to Halloween.


Covid gonna covid


MaxOfMetal said:


> Snowball's chance in Hell?
> 
> I'm expecting closer to Halloween.


Oof, truth hurts


----------



## couchguitarplayer

Ibanez is a guitar builder mainly for rock and metal players. The RGD was a modern take on the RG and for the Downtune player (longer scale). 

Personnaly, I think the RG is the model that compete with the JP. If (?) Ibanez wanted to get back customers from the JP departure to musicman, they would have added piezo and special cuts to the body. They don't wanna do that and that's why JP left Ibanez. I don't think they suffered the JP departure at all. Even though the music man has been a big success. 

I think Musicman would suffer a lot if JP would leave them but not the opposite. Ibanez have hundreds of high profile players and endorsees (Vai, Satriani, Gilbert, Meshuggah, Korn, Tom Quayle, Kiko, Timmons, etc.).

In the end, both brands are great but they don't target the same customers.


----------



## Estilo

MaxOfMetal said:


> Other than finish, the RGD hasn't changed much since launch.
> 
> Then:
> View attachment 91106



Gosh these older RGD's sure bring back memories. Marc of Veil of Maya used the 2120 in the "Unbreakable" music video, and for the longest time the 2127 was what I thought would be an ideal 7 string if it had a fixed bridge. Didn't have the funds back then and left the hobby for a bit. And the present models look like overpriced hype jobs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Estilo said:


> And the present models look like overpriced hype jobs.



Bringing models to different price tiers definitely dilutes them.


----------



## diagrammatiks

couchguitarplayer said:


> Ibanez is a guitar builder mainly for rock and metal players. The RGD was a modern take on the RG and for the Downtune player (longer scale).
> 
> Personnaly, I think the RG is the model that compete with the JP. If (?) Ibanez wanted to get back customers from the JP departure to musicman, they would have added piezo and special cuts to the body. They don't wanna do that and that's why JP left Ibanez. I don't think they suffered the JP departure at all. Even though the music man has been a big success.
> 
> I think Musicman would suffer a lot if JP would leave them but not the opposite. Ibanez have hundreds of high profile players and endorsees (Vai, Satriani, Gilbert, Meshuggah, Korn, Tom Quayle, Kiko, Timmons, etc.).
> 
> In the end, both brands are great but they don't target the same customers.



they did have a ton of piezo models at one point though. Well not a ton...but given that most companies have none.


----------



## kamello

Estilo said:


> Gosh these older RGD's sure bring back memories. Marc of Veil of Maya used the 2120 in the "Unbreakable" music video, and for the longest time the 2127 was what I thought would be an ideal 7 string if it had a fixed bridge. Didn't have the funds back then and left the hobby for a bit. And the present models look like overpriced hype jobs.



look around for an RGD2127 FX, the fixed version of the 2127, even though I actually think old 7621's are "better", there is something in the RGD that just grabs me much more, hence why it's the only 7 string guitar that have lasted more than a year with me 





MaxOfMetal said:


> The RGD was never meant to compete with the JP. Full stop.
> 
> It was developed from an old 90's design that predates Petrucci's involvement with EBMM to be a "sharper" more "metal" version of the RG aimed at the contemporary metal scene, hence the launch artists (which Ibanez chooses specifically) being guys mostly in metalcore, deathcore, and other extreme metal bands. It was built for chugs basically.
> 
> Even stuff like the controls were positioned to not get in the way of folks hamfisting breakdowns.
> 
> I'm not speculating here, and I'll leave it at that.



Damn, do you have any info on that early model?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kamello said:


> Damn, do you have any info on that early model?



There's some info around the web, just search "Ibanez potato-caster" or similar. 

Management hated it, so it was moth-balled.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

diagrammatiks said:


> counterpoint -
> the talman
> still exists.



A good point, well made there!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Talman does weirdly good in Japan and developing markets.


----------



## profwoot

Here's one more vote for the FR shape being rad, the Talman shape being fine, and the new AZS shape seeming aesthetically odd and redundant. But I'm not privy to the calculus so I'm sure they had their reasons.


----------



## SpaceDock

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's some info around the web, just search "Ibanez potato-caster" or similar.
> 
> Management hated it, so it was moth-balled.



What the heck? It was called Maxxas! MAXxas?!?! Coincidence? I think not!


----------



## Wuuthrad

couchguitarplayer said:


> Ibanez is a guitar builder mainly for rock and metal players.



-ahem-



New Artcores for 2021:


----------



## Vyn

@MaxOfMetal I was indeed thinking of the JPX/JPXI with the RGD comments, having thought about it more and read the subsequent discussion/comments - fuck I was full of shit  Sorry guys, I was completely off on that one!

I still think the AZ comments are accurate, they are trying to tap into that boutique strat market given the pricing.

As for Ibanez being in trouble, I think you are right - I view them as being in trouble as because a lot of what made them big they don't seem to be producing anymore (which I happen to be a fan of), when in reality they are doing just fine in the markets they are actually targeting.

Don't think I thought much before posting that, sorry again guys!


----------



## TheShreddinHand

I just want another RG7CT....


----------



## couchguitarplayer

Wuuthrad said:


> -ahem-
> 
> 
> 
> New Artcores for 2021:




I knew someone would post about these, but in all honesty I don't of jazz or blues when I see 97% of the Ibanez guitar available in stores.


----------



## xzacx

couchguitarplayer said:


> I knew someone would post about these, but in all honesty I don't of jazz or blues when I see 97% of the Ibanez guitar available in stores.



It's definitely not my first thought when I think "Ibanez," but I feel like in reality I see just about as many hollowbodies and acoustics in local GC/Sam Ash stores than I do RGs. I can definitely imagine younger players associating Ibanez with more than rock and metal.


----------



## Leviathus

A prestige jazz box is like my secret GAS.


----------



## Wuuthrad

GAS’n Again! New for 2021-




ALT30FM Red Doom Burst High Gloss

(imma start a new acoustic genre-)

« Acaustic Doom »

Not new for 2021 but this is a killer bass, no longer in production? (Ibanez makes great basses btw!)




Ibanez AVNB1FE Artwood Vintage Parlor Solid-Top Acoustic-Electric Bass Open Pore Natural Brown Violin finish


----------



## Merrekof

SpaceDock said:


> What the heck? It was called Maxxas! MAXxas?!?! Coincidence? I think not!


Damn, now you mention maxxas.. I know a guy who has a Maxxas. He bought an Ibanez like 20 years ago. It was no known model but the serial stamped in the neck pocket said it was a Maxxas that somehow got mixed with Ibanez parts in Japan and ended up here with some dealer. Last I heard he has that guitar completely disassembled in his house for the past 10 years or so. Appareantly maxxas stuff is highly sought after by collectors. Never saw or played the guitar myself but he plays in a band with former bandmates of mine. That's how I know about it.


----------



## Wuuthrad

xzacx said:


> It's definitely not my first thought when I think "Ibanez," but I feel like in reality I see just about as many hollowbodies and acoustics in local GC/Sam Ash stores than I do RGs. I can definitely imagine younger players associating Ibanez with more than rock and metal.



Yup, I see mostly basses, acoustics, semis and hollows, and some RG’s and Jems. Not really one more than the other, but RG’s are in the minority usually. 

I can remember when RG’s first came out, thinking they were a sort of Super Strat copy.

Ibanez was always about hollows and semi-hollows, a former Classical guitar maker that started importing some low end electrics later on.


----------



## Wuuthrad

Obviously they’ve become one of the greatest 
Guitar companies worldwide, and the various Wizard necks are some of the most comfortable I’ve played.


----------



## AngryPossum

Love Ibbys, I have one of these.
1985 IMG2010 Japan.


----------



## Merrekof

AngryPossum said:


> Love Ibbys, I have one of these.
> 1985 IMG2010 Japan.
> 
> View attachment 91147
> View attachment 91149


One of these is currently for sale on a Belgian used market app. Cool design, only I wouldn't know what to do with it :-D


----------



## AngryPossum

Merrekof said:


> One of these is currently for sale on a Belgian used market app. Cool design, only I wouldn't know what to do with it :-D



The Model # is IMG2010
Research it on youtube or the internet. You can also play it without the peripherals. Has clean pickups, and sounds nice straight into an amp.


----------



## Dan_Vacant

On the subject of their hollow bodies. If you go on jazz guitar forums most of the users use ibanez.


----------



## BigViolin

Benson, Sco and Metheny? Pretty much impossible to touch that roster without some sort of sorcery.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's some info around the web, just search "Ibanez potato-caster" or similar.
> 
> Management hated it, so it was moth-balled.


Only results for that are the Maxxas which is nothing like the RGD.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Only results for that are the Maxxas which is nothing like the RGD.



The finished Maxxas wasn't, but the original development guitar was a beveled RG body that was later smoothed out. The beveled RG thing was very reminiscent of the current RGD. There was an old thread on Jemsite about it that usually came up in searches.

There was a blurb about it in the Ibanez history book, I'll see if I can find a copy.

EDIT: Here's the blurb:
_
"Hoshino guitar tech Mace Bailey made a prototype of Lasner's vision, hollowing out the body with a router and creating a *double cutaway design with blocky, crystal-cut edges*. This first design was dismissed by Hoshino USA president, Ken Hoshino, as being too primitive; Hoshino called it a "potato-caster"."
_
Bolded for emphasis.


----------



## odibrom

MaxOfMetal said:


> (...)
> EDIT: Here's the blurb:
> _
> "Hoshino guitar tech Mace Bailey made a prototype of Lasner's vision, hollowing out the body with a router and creating a *double cutaway design with blocky, crystal-cut edges*. This first design was dismissed by Hoshino USA president, Ken Hoshino, as being too primitive; Hoshino called it a "potato-caster"."
> _
> Bolded for emphasis.



Are there photos of this?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> Are there photos of this?



I don't think anything has survived, but I know some Ibanez guys from back then and they say it was pretty much an RGD as far as location and style of bevels.

Supposedly there's a picture somewhere in the ether, but any links online are long since dead and who knows what they even show. 

As far as actual lineage, when the shape hit LACS for development folks were calling back the old Maxxas "potato" prototype.


----------



## odibrom

Thanks for the info @MaxOfMetal. I was just curious about it.


----------



## landmvrks

Why do they keep making the hardtail prestige RGD's in terrible colorways


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

landmvrks said:


> Why do they keep making the hardtail prestige RGD's in terrible colorways


Because it’s Ibanez.


----------



## landmvrks

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Because it’s Ibanez.


You're right. Honestly, Ibanez makes terrible colorways across their whole line. They have great guitars, but their design team grossly misunderstands what makes a cool looking guitar in my opinion.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

landmvrks said:


> You're right. Honestly, Ibanez makes terrible colorways across their whole line. They have great guitars, but their design team grossly misunderstands what makes a cool looking guitar in my opinion.


Agreed.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

landmvrks said:


> Why do they keep making the hardtail prestige RGD's in terrible colorways



Fixed bridges are just so simple and boring, they figure anything too bright and y'all hurt yourselves.


----------



## landmvrks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Fixed bridges are just so simple and boring, they figure anything too bright and y'all hurt yourselves.


Give me a satin seafoam green and I'll be a happy man.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Looks like some models have leaked.


----------



## olejason

No parallel fret?


----------



## danbox

olejason said:


> No parallel fret?


It looks like they’re not multiscale, just angled? Interesting


----------



## Masoo2

Those just look off

Late April fools joke?


----------



## gunshow86de

Well, those all look terrible.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Ibanez is the only builder to double down on their terrible multi scale design by making it even more terrible.

do they know that people's hands don't go in that direction.

please be a joke.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Please make these be a joke. PLEASE.


----------



## SpaceDock

I do not understand the weird fret angle? Anyone have a reasonable explanation for that?


----------



## Metropolis

Without parallel fret it's basically useless to have frets fanned that way.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

SpaceDock said:


> I do not understand the weird fret angle? Anyone have a reasonable explanation for that?


It’s Ibanez.


----------



## narad

I like the Ichika sig one



Metropolis said:


> Without parallel fret it's basically useless to have frets fanned that way.



Ergonomics?


----------



## Vegetta

DO NOT WANT

wow i hope that is a joke those look really bad


----------



## StevenC

These are very obviously fake.


narad said:


> Ergonomics?


Hardly ergonomic when it makes chord shapes harder. Some stretchy chords with the low string being the lowest fret might be slightly easier, but it makes the opposite harder. That's why frets are perpendicular to begin with, because it's a compromise to make most chords reasonable.


----------



## mbardu

StevenC said:


> Thess are very obviously fake.
> 
> Hardly ergonomic when it makes chord shapes harder. Some stretchy chords with the low string being the lowest fret might be slightly easier, but it makes the opposite harder. That's why frets are perpendicular to begin with, because it's a compromise to make most chords reasonable.



Plus, you're able to tell from the pixels.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> Thess are very obviously fake.
> 
> Hardly ergonomic when it makes chord shapes harder. Some stretchy chords with the low string being the lowest fret might be slightly easier, but it makes the opposite harder. That's why frets are perpendicular to begin with, because it's a compromise to make most chords reasonable.



I think frets are perpendicular because of laziness and poor math. I'd have to see how the body sits, but it could easily be an ergonomic improvement over perpendicular frets. On my franned frets I always like the frets near this angle, and sometimes hate what happens in the fret 1-3 range moving too far past angling the opposite way.


----------



## Avedas

Dang those are disgusting lmao


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> I think frets are perpendicular because of laziness and poor math. I'd have to see how the body sits, but it could easily be an ergonomic improvement over perpendicular frets. On my franned frets I always like the frets near this angle, and sometimes hate what happens in the fret 1-3 range moving too far past angling the opposite way.


Those are observations based on multiscale guitars. Obviously tritone and add9 type shapes will be harder on those low frets than normal, and easier when the frets are going towards the bridge. But flip those shapes upside down and you're going to have the opposite experience.

Also all your experience of dramatic fanning towards the bridge is likely to be on higher frets and the narrow fret gaps will mask any negatives from the fanning.


----------



## josh1

Isn't the fan going in the wrong direction?


----------



## RobDobble6S7

These sure seem about par for the course for Ibanez not gonna lie....


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> I think frets are perpendicular because of laziness and poor math. I'd have to see how the body sits, but it could easily be an ergonomic improvement over perpendicular frets. On my franned frets I always like the frets near this angle, and sometimes hate what happens in the fret 1-3 range moving too far past angling the opposite way.



you can prefer to be straight at the 1st fret. but going in that direction is clearly wrong. You should never have your wrist like that. just try it.


----------



## Randy

EDIT: Misread


----------



## Randy

Anybody got a price on these yet, out of curiousity?


----------



## Quiet Coil

That’s just it - they’re not fanned. They’re angled but still parallel to one another (hence the name “parallel wizard” for the neck).

If they’re just testing out crazy stuff in the Japanese market (sort of like ESP) then more power to them. If not, huge swing and a miss...


----------



## MrWulf

Its like a monkey paw situation at this point. Ppl clamoring for Ibanez to try to make headless....they just don't know it is at the price of multiscale without parallel frets haha


----------



## Musiscience

These must be a joke, I'll believe it when I see an official release.

Edit: also, what's going on with the AZS? Outside of that single Tom Quayle video, there's nothing. This is surprising as I would have expected the test guitar to circulate to endosees and youtubers for publicity and reviews by now. Even with COVID, shipping of a guitar or two for reviews shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## TrevorT

I kinda like the shape... reminds me of the Radius. Not sure what's going on with those angled-but-not-multiscale frets though. At this point I don't think these are real, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they are.


----------



## Miek

Ibanez, now's your chance to go haha j/k those were a joke and then make sure no one ever hears about these again.


----------



## olejason

Musiscience said:


> Edit: also, what's going on with the AZS? Outside of that single Tom Quayle video, there's nothing. This is surprising as I would have expected the test guitar to circulate to endosees and youtubers for publicity and reviews by now. Even with COVID, shipping of a guitar or two for reviews shouldn't be a problem.



The same thing happened with the 6 string multiscale bass last year. They didn't send it to anyone before general release. A couple of guys managed to get the models they had at NAMM but I don't recall any of the usual "influencer" crowd getting that model even Ibanez sent the other headless basses to them.


----------



## narad

diagrammatiks said:


> you can prefer to be straight at the 1st fret. but going in that direction is clearly wrong. You should never have your wrist like that. just try it.



lol it's not "clearly wrong". If -your- wrist is in a position that causes harmful stresses, then it is a problem for you, based on your hands/arms/shoulder width/legs/posture/and radius and neck shape and playing style AND what you're playing. The idea of a universal wrong does not get to even enter the picture here. 

I was literally just last month teaching someone to fix their posture on the lower frets because her hand was angled this way, because of how far out the those frets were with respect to her elbow and some habits from violin. It's amazing how unnatural someone can make the experience of just sitting down and playing a bar chord when they approach the instrument for the first time.


----------



## Hollowway

MrWulf said:


> Its like a monkey paw situation at this point.


Haha, I was thinking the same thing. They give us a headless, but then had the guy from Etherial design some dumb-ass nonsensical frets.


----------



## KentBrockman

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Looks like some models have leaked.



Those colors look ugly AF but I'm surprised that Ibanez has taken this long to develop a headless _guitar_. Personally I won't be buying one as I am content with my normal guitars.



landmvrks said:


> You're right. Honestly, Ibanez makes terrible colorways across their whole line. They have great guitars, but their design team grossly misunderstands what makes a cool looking guitar in my opinion.



They've certainly become more colorful recently - compared to the doom and gloom 2000s and early 2010s where most of their Prestige RG lineup were dark colors or white (with some exceptions). 

It'd be great if they released a Prestige with a colored flamed maple top with black headstock like another RG3120. I've never liked the headstock matching that they've now ramped up on...


----------



## Dayn

I gotta admit, it's unexpected. It's bold. It's brash.

It's highly confusing. I legitimately thought these were unreleased late 80s models. Maybe it's the roundedness of them? It's like they're pulled from retrofuturism.


----------



## eclecto-acoustic

I don't want to believe these are real. The bad image quality, kind of strange ergonomics...I wanted them to do a headless because I thought they'd knock the design out of the park (actually really like their basses).


----------



## LordHar

Yeah... I really want to withhold judgement until there either are better demos or I hold one in my hand, but my first thought was : How can the bass design team get things so right, and these look so wrong? I own the SFM Green headless bass model and it is absolutely amazing.


----------



## trem licking

What i expect from an ibanez headless; own design quality Gotoh headless hardware, a headless trem of some kind as well, not slanty frets. The shape isn't the worst, but they aren't "modern" and the bottom doesn't look symmetrical, making the 2 strap pins as "guitar leaning feet" not very useful. Slanted frets are dumber than fanned frets... At least fanned frets can claim some sort of functional purpose. Kinda hoping these are some leftover april foolery, but it's a tough tell with how subtle the joke is


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Looks like I don't have to chug ketchup.


----------



## Musiscience

FromTheMausoleum said:


> Looks like I don't have to chug ketchup.


Don't discard that bottle just yet! We haven't see anything official yet and these mockups look suspiciously like a joke.


----------



## Bdtunn

josh1 said:


> Isn't the fan going in the wrong direction?



I just said that to someone while showing them this. That 7 is backwards.....


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Bdtunn said:


> I just said that to someone while showing them this. That 7 is backwards.....


It's not a fan, there's one scale length that's at an angle. The frets match the angle of the bridge.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

You kids.


----------



## Bdtunn

FromTheMausoleum said:


> It's not a fan, there's one scale length that's at an angle. The frets match the angle of the bridge.


 
Unless I’m losing it haha 
If you look at the nut it’s angled so the high e has the “longer” scale then the low e


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Bdtunn said:


> Unless I’m losing it haha
> If you look at the nut it’s angled so the high e has the “longer” scale then the low e


No, it has a 25.5" scale all across the board, read the specs. The nut and frets are the same angle and distance as the bridge, so the same scale length.


----------



## Bdtunn

FromTheMausoleum said:


> No, it has a 25.5" scale all across the board, read the specs. The nut and frets are the same angle and distance as the bridge, so the same scale length.



weird! Just looks odd to me 
Thanks for the heads up


----------



## Miek

I obviously don't know anything behind the scenes but if Ibanez is gonna do multiscale at this point it's really kind of a shame they didn't stick with tosin


----------



## luca9583

Hollowway said:


> 12th anniversary release of the SR7viiSC? Anyone? Let’s do this!  Seriously, I still want one. I’m hoping that there are some more wild bass things to be shown on the 21st. But I think it’s not likely.



@Hollowway check your inbox!
https://ljudfront.se/product.html/ibanez-sr7viisc-bk


----------



## k5beaststa

Looks like the Iron Label line is getting a Xiphos and Iceman. https://www.instagram.com/p/CQTlePFB-9Y/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## nickgray

Hm, looks like Ibby's answer of sorts to LTD's Black Metal range?


----------



## SpaceDock

Curious they don’t show any of the headstocks.


----------



## th3drap3ryfalls

Their website blows so here are the full picture shots. Reverse headstock on those Xiphos - can't wait to buy one! Glad I held off on getting one used from Reverb

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products...x_ironlabel&cf_search_series=iceman_ironlabel


----------



## Merrekof

Oh snap, if I was still playing guitar like I used to, I couldn't resist that Xiphos or Iceman 7.



SpaceDock said:


> Curious they don’t show any of the headstocks.


Reminds me of the promo photo they used for the uppercut series back in the day. It also showed bodies withiut headstocks.
See:
https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/Prestige_Uppercut_series


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## lurè

Fucking no fret inlays....


----------



## Meldville

Got so stoked for the Xiphos and then saw the 7 was only 25.5” scale. Sigh.


----------



## Vegetta

Meldville said:


> Got so stoked for the Xiphos and then saw the 7 was only 25.5” scale. Sigh.



Yeah the iceman was also. Hard pass


----------



## sirbuh

th3drap3ryfalls said:


> Their website blows so here are the full picture shots. Reverse headstock on those Xiphos - can't wait to buy one! Glad I held off on getting one used from Reverb
> 
> https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products...x_ironlabel&cf_search_series=iceman_ironlabel



oh these look great , eta?


----------



## Perge

Meldville said:


> Got so stoked for the Xiphos and then saw the 7 was only 25.5” scale. Sigh.



Especially with them coming setup in A standard...weird choice.


----------



## Big_taco

I am 100% on board with that Iceman and either Xiphos.


----------



## BusinessMan

Big_taco said:


> I am 100% on board with that Iceman and either Xiphos.



I need that iceman like 6 years ago


----------



## BillCosby

Noticed that they come stock with 10-52 + 64 set up in A, which is unusual.

I'm definitely getting both of these, because I missed out when the first 7 string versions of the X and IC were released and I've been wanting them so bad.


----------



## Hollowway

BillCosby said:


> Noticed that they come stock with 10-52 + 64 set up in A, which is unusual.
> 
> I'm definitely getting both of these, because I missed out when the first 7 string versions of the X and IC were released and I've been wanting them so bad.



Plus, this X 7 has a trem. The first iteration was hard tail only, right?


----------



## odibrom

...now let's wait for the youtube storm of reviews...


----------



## Hollowway

odibrom said:


> ...now let's wait for the youtube storm of reviews...


Yep. And they all will say the same thing, and not have any critical things to say about them. I’m sooo sick of the flurry of shallow reviews made just for clicks.


----------



## Gain_Junkie93

Lmao as soon as I start putting together a suicmez inspired xiphos they put these out. Zero gas for this over my 7620 turned xiphos in the making. Jelly of that reverse headstock and ebony board though. Will love to try one out to compare.


----------



## odibrom

Gain_Junkie93 said:


> Lmao as soon as I start putting together a suicmez inspired xiphos they put these out. Zero gas for this over my 7620 turned xiphos in the making. Jelly of that reverse headstock and ebony board though. Will love to try one out to compare.



I could see myself getting one of these Xiphos and mod it... pickups would be the first to go... but it's not a priority nor the gas is that strong. There are other items on the bucket list that have priority over these...


----------



## BillCosby

Hollowway said:


> Plus, this X 7 has a trem. The first iteration was hard tail only, right?


Yeah, it was that weird quasi-tune o matic bridge that they only used for the Xiphos. And it was chameleon, too


----------



## Vyn

Ibanez just won 2021. I will die on this hill.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Vyn said:


> Ibanez just won 2021. I will die on this hill.


uh oh.


----------



## Hollowway

RobDobble6S7 said:


> uh oh.


Well, you have to admit they did a great job on being stealthy, and then pulled the, “oh, one more thing” out at the last minute.


----------



## Amer Alameddine

lurè said:


> Fucking no fret inlays....


I think it looks cooler and more slick without them, or maybe just one on the 12th fret, but certainly understand why it wouldn't gel with some folks.


----------



## Hollowway

Amer Alameddine said:


> I think it looks cooler and more slick without them, or maybe just one on the 12th fret, but certainly understand why it wouldn't gel with some folks.


I’m gonna guess that was a joke, since Ibanez is renown tor rosewood and dots on otherwise super modern looking guitars.


----------



## Merrekof

Am I the only one who doesn't mind 25,5inch or does the rest just not tell? 

I really love this new line. If I were to get a custom guitar, it would probably look like this.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't mind 25,5inch or does the rest just not tell?



If it didn't sell, they wouldn't make them. If these were 26.5"+ just as many folks would chime in saying they wished it was 25.5". It's just how it goes.


----------



## Vyn

Hollowway said:


> Well, you have to admit they did a great job on being stealthy, and then pulled the, “oh, one more thing” out at the last minute.



This. They have released in the one year:
565
Xiphos 7
Iceman 7

They have released probably the three most popular models that metal players have been begging for for almost a decade. I can't think of another model of Ibanez let alone another brand that people have wanted back as bad as those three.


----------



## BillCosby

The Xiphos and Iceman are on Sweetwater now. $1399 and 1299, respectively.


----------



## Mathemagician

Was hoping to see a new AZ7 color but the black metal line additions look great.


----------



## CloudAC

I would honestly buy that Xiphos 7 in a heartbeat if it was a hardtail. Damn. The hardtail 7 from years ago is impossible to find in the used market nowadays.


----------



## cip 123

Vyn said:


> Ibanez just won 2021. I will die on this hill.


There are still more lines to come out and I would leave that hill pretty quick


----------



## MrWulf

Hmm, how much would a SS refrets cost, i wonder? Thats literally my only gripe about the 7 strings Xiphos. The price is not too bad


----------



## Ataraxia2320

Does that Iceman have a comfort cut on the front? Doesn't look like a flattop and that ruins the shape for me.

Good on ibanez in general for bringing back those shapes though.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Does that Iceman have a comfort cut on the front? Doesn't look like a flattop and that ruins the shape for me.
> 
> Good on ibanez in general for bringing back those shapes though.


It's legit the Abasi contour/cut.

This new Iron Label drop is thoroughly unimpressive and just a minimal-effort cash-grab by Ibanez after them seeing how well ESP has done with the super stripped-down, super affordable LTD Black Metal series which requires minimal time and resources to churn out in the LTD factory. Only thing Ibanez did was listen to the social media community and bring back the Iceman and Xiphos body shapes (which have been suddenly trending out of nowhere recently), yet Ibanez can't even be bothered enough to get the specs right. (25.5" on a modern 7-string? Come on... You already know that some chugster is gonna get on an online forum and be like: "Not long enough, boys! NOT LONG ENOUGH!")


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hehe. People losing thier minds about the scale. Lol.


----------



## CloudAC

Xiphos and Iceman 'suddenly trending' is news to me. I've always observed that they were considered some of the favorites of non-traditional shapes Ibanez have released.


----------



## Seabeast2000

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hehe. People losing thier minds about the scale. Lol.



C'mon man. 


So that contour does look interesting, like an arced super shallow bevel. By golly I could be tempted.


----------



## Albake21

While these new Iron Labels aren't my thing, I'm incredibly happy for everyone here who has been asking for a new Xiphos. Where's @lewis at? I remember him always asking for Ibanez to reissue the Xiphos.


----------



## Wucan

Did Ibanez have a replacement model for the RG5220M? Played it a few times in store and loved it, it's got that sweet spot in weight and balance. Didn't buy it because I just don't need another shredder right now but would be nice to scratch the itch eventually.


----------



## odibrom

CloudAC said:


> I would honestly buy that Xiphos 7 in a heartbeat if it was a hardtail. Damn. The hardtail 7 from years ago is impossible to find in the used market nowadays.



I've just seen someone on FB selling a bunch of guitar and one was a Xiphos 707... repainted and all, hardware looked legit...


----------



## Amer Alameddine

Hollowway said:


> I’m gonna guess that was a joke, since Ibanez is renown tor rosewood and dots on otherwise super modern looking guitars.


Nope. I'm aware of their usual look, I prefer this one though.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

BuT gUyS tHiS pRoDuCtIoN gUiTaR dOeSn’T hAvE tHe SpEcS I LiKe

hopefully these sell and they get the bright idea to bring the Halberd back


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Emperor Guillotine said:


> It's legit the Abasi contour/cut.
> 
> This new Iron Label drop is thoroughly unimpressive and just a minimal-effort cash-grab by Ibanez after them seeing how well ESP has done with the super stripped-down, super affordable LTD Black Metal series which requires minimal time and resources to churn out in the LTD factory. Only thing Ibanez did was listen to the social media community and bring back the Iceman and Xiphos body shapes (which have been suddenly trending out of nowhere recently), yet Ibanez can't even be bothered enough to get the specs right. (25.5" on a modern 7-string? Come on... You already know that some chugster is gonna get on an online forum and be like: "Not long enough, boys! NOT LONG ENOUGH!")




Ibanez is a business. Literally everything they do is a "cash grab". That's the whole point of their existence.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hehe. People losing thier minds about the scale. Lol.


What did you expect?


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

The 7 string Iceman is back? And it's all blacked out too? Sure would go nice with the Viper 7 Black Metal I have arriving today or tomorrow.

Has the QC for the Iron Label series improved the last few years? $1200 is a bit steep for Iron Label if the quality isn't better that the few IL's I've seen in the wild.


----------



## ZXIIIT

With Ibanez announcing these (plus the blacked out Gio RG) and ESP's Black Metal Series, it's great/bad timing for Gibson to roll out the Gothic III series,


----------



## Hollowway

Amer Alameddine said:


> Nope. I'm aware of their usual look, I prefer this one though.


No, sorry, I meant that the post you quoted (from lure) was probably a joke. I get where you’re coming from. And I think everyone is on the same page as you, there.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> What did you expect?



Expect? Why did you think I came here?


----------



## jwade

The Iceman looks great. Easy to add to if that’s your thing, excellent idea to have the individual saddles, acceptable pickups. If the price is decent, this could be one of the first new guitars I snag in a long long while.


----------



## BillCosby

jwade said:


> The Iceman looks great. Easy to add to if that’s your thing, excellent idea to have the individual saddles, acceptable pickups. If the price is decent, this could be one of the first new guitars I snag in a long long while.


Sweetwater has it listed for 1299.


----------



## jwade

I can’t find any Canadian sites listing it yet, hopefully Long & McQuade will have access to these.
In related news, Ibanez posted a video on Twitter of some guy playing the new iceman, and now Wes Hauch has posted a clip too: https://twitter.com/weshauch/status/1406701994635583489?s=21


----------



## Musiscience

So the Iron Label Iceman is 300$ more than the 7 string M LTD Black Metal. And the M has SS frets?

I'd go the LTD route any day.


----------



## dirtool

BillCosby said:


> The Xiphos and Iceman are on Sweetwater now. $1399 and 1299, respectively.


If the iceman is under $1000, I will be impressed.


----------



## Hollowway

Musiscience said:


> So the Iron Label Iceman is 300$ more than the 7 string M LTD Black Metal. And the M has SS frets?
> 
> I'd go the LTD route any day.



Yes, but did you notice that the Iceman is an Iceman, and the LTD is not an Iceman? That might appeal to some people. Especially the ones looking for an Iceman.


----------



## odibrom

... and still no youtube vids... lame Ibanez, lame... your marketing director isn't working properly...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> ... and still no youtube vids... lame Ibanez, lame... your marketing director isn't working properly...



There's like three vids posted just on here.


----------



## Mathemagician

Iceman.


----------



## jwade

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's like three vids posted just on here.


Plus, it’s the weekend, and they’ll probably have videos of each model being posted over the next few days, so…


----------



## Merrekof

Musiscience said:


> So the Iron Label Iceman is 300$ more than the 7 string M LTD Black Metal. And the M has SS frets?
> 
> I'd go the LTD route any day.


If you are sick of seeing new 7-string superstrats coming out every month and want another iconic model like the Xiphos or Iceman, these are more than welcome. For years I've been looking for 7 string guitars that weren't superstrats, the options are very limited. Thats why I put together an FR7. That's why I complained about the new BC Rich's lack of 7-strings. I stopped looking at superstrats a good while ago so the LTD has nothing to offer for me.
If these came out 5 years ago, I would've pre-ordered one if possible in Europe. This is the first time in a long time Ibanez actually makes a new guitar I really want. Too bad my guitar playing is at an all-time low..


----------



## Vyn

cip 123 said:


> There are still more lines to come out and I would leave that hill pretty quick


Short of ESP/Jackson releasing some sort of X/V shaped 7 string I can't see anything beating these. Maybe a Sugi-built Greedot Universe re-issue however that would be out of the realms of affordability for most.

Most brands will just be releasing super strats. Super stats have been done to death, there's enough out there that whatever one's preferences, there's going to be one that matches either outright or close enough with minimal mods.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Hehe. People losing their minds about the scale. Lol.


Beat me to it  There was no way this was going to be longer than 25.5", extended scale players are even more of a minority than X shaped guitar players.


----------



## odibrom

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's like three vids posted just on here.



... man, I'm out of the loop for sure...


----------



## Anquished

I don't understand some of you guys being surprised at this being 25.5"... 

Also this paves the way for a Wes Hauch Iceman sig at the 27" length of his custom shop.


----------



## Musiscience

Hollowway said:


> Yes, but did you notice that the Iceman is an Iceman, and the LTD is not an Iceman? That might appeal to some people. Especially the ones looking for an Iceman.



To be honest, I'd never pay extra for something that isn't functional in nature. But that's just me. To each their own.


----------



## Blytheryn

Musiscience said:


> To be honest, I'd never pay extra for something that isn't functional in nature. But that's just me. To each their own.



You sound like a lot of fun at parties.


----------



## Wildebeest

Musiscience said:


> To be honest, I'd never pay extra for something that isn't functional in nature. But that's just me. To each their own.


Is that your guitar in your profile picture?


----------



## StevenC

Mathemagician said:


> View attachment 94809
> 
> 
> Iceman.


Iceman 7


----------



## Glades

I’d love to see a hardtail 6 string!


----------



## Boofchuck

Man, between the Solar T series and that Xyphos I'm going to end up broke under a bridge surrounded by guitars I can't afford.


----------



## Merrekof

Boofchuck said:


> Man, between the Solar T series and that Xyphos I'm going to end up broke under a bridge surrounded by guitars I can't afford.


Yeah, 2021 is the year a lot of cool new guitars came out..


----------



## Musiscience

Edit: you know what, never mind, not even worth responding.


----------



## BusinessMan

BillCosby said:


> The Xiphos and Iceman are on Sweetwater now. $1399 and 1299, respectively.



Seems a but high to me considering the other iron labels


----------



## thomas.reuter

Just sold an old Schecter to fund the iceman


----------



## Anquished

thomas.reuter said:


> Just sold an old Schecter to fund the iceman



I've got an email notification for when GuitarGuitar have them in stock - money is abit tight this month to preorder. 

Definitely want one to act as my new A standard guitar.


----------



## Marv Attaxx




----------



## Ezumania

That RG752AHM made me realize that I really, really want a purple guitar, but I can't justify the price of it without extra features like piezo.


----------



## Edika

Anquished said:


> I've got an email notification for when GuitarGuitar have them in stock - money is abit tight this month to preorder.
> 
> Definitely want one to act as my new A standard guitar.



In a couple of sites they have them for preorder they mention December 2021. Is that what Guitat Guitar told you?


----------



## Anquished

Edika said:


> In a couple of sites they have them for preorder they mention December 2021. Is that what Guitat Guitar told you?



They didn't mention when they would be available, so no idea!


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Marv Attaxx said:


>




Ah yes, the icing on the cake with our lord and savior Wes serving up a riff sandwich to compliment the new Iceman. Neck and tits, as I've heard him say.


----------



## dirtool

With similar spec, the RGIXL7 listed $899, and the iceman 7 listed $1299, the inflation is real.


----------



## BusinessMan

Marv Attaxx said:


>




Thanks Wes for making me even GASier than I've been for one of these.


----------



## 4Eyes

Wucan said:


> Did Ibanez have a replacement model for the RG5220M? Played it a few times in store and loved it, it's got that sweet spot in weight and balance. Didn't buy it because I just don't need another shredder right now but would be nice to scratch the itch eventually.


the only model from their current range that is close to it is RG5120M, which comes in cool blue and apart from non-reversed headstock and Fishman Fluence pickups, it's basically the same guitar


----------



## Volsung

_:sigh: I miss my Iceman 507. _

I'm so happy to see Ibanez releasing another 7 string Iceman. I hope this stays in production longer than the last one. Those only went a year.

At least Ibanez remembered that the Iceman shape doesn't have to have Paul Stanley's name on it.

Oh, and to those that were miffed by the scale length, the IC507 from 13' was 25.24". So they've made some progress, and this is coming from someone that actually liked that old scale length.


----------



## Edika

dirtool said:


> With similar spec, the RGIXL7 listed $899, and the iceman 7 listed $1299, the inflation is real.



But wait there's a gigbag included with those!

Honestly though I can't understand why only the BTB has stainless steel frets. All of them have similar specs and the luminlay side dots etc etc. For £1100-1200 why not have the stainless steel frets? I understand that have been long awaited models but ESP even made a LTD EX black metal model with stainless steel frets that is cheaper then these. Anyway what I'm trying to say is at least have stianless steel frets to give an edge from the competition. That being said I'm still interested in the XPTB720. I just need to see what the final price will be. Because I really like the aesthetics of the prestige RG5120M and the green tends to pop up used for about these will go for new.


----------



## 4Eyes

Edika said:


> Because I really like the aesthetics of the prestige RG5120M and the green tends to pop up used for about these will go for new.


If I may give you some advice and you're eyeing Prestige models - check for model you like on Reverb and search for the stores which have "make an offer" option enabled. Sometimes it's worth a shot. I got great deals for brand new guitars that way on both my E-II Eclipse (got it for 1900,- EUR shipped, all local or EU stores have that particular model listed for 2249,- or something like that) and RGR5220M (paid for it 1429,- shipped, listed for 1850 and up in stores). only downside is you have to be ready to pay if your offer gets accepted by the store


----------



## Edika

4Eyes said:


> If I may give you some advice and you're eyeing Prestige models - check for model you like on Reverb and search for the stores which have "make an offer" option enabled. Sometimes it's worth a shot. I got great deals for brand new guitars that way on both my E-II Eclipse (got it for 1900,- EUR shipped, all local or EU stores have that particular model listed for 2249,- or something like that) and RGR5220M (paid for it 1429,- shipped, listed for 1850 and up in stores). only downside is you have to be ready to pay if your offer gets accepted by the store



Thanks man! That's good to know!


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Volsung said:


> Oh, and to those that were miffed by the scale length, the IC507 from 13' was 25.24"



How did they end up at that odd scale length? Did prior Iceman models employ?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

CovertSovietBear said:


> How did they end up at that odd scale length? Did prior Iceman models employ?



Just about every Iceman up to that point had a 24.75" scale, so they chose to split the difference between that and 25.5".


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just about every Iceman up to that point had a 24.75" scale, so they chose to split the difference between that and 25.5".


People forget the Iceman was meant to compete with the Firebird not the Kelly.


----------



## thomas.reuter

Preordered the Iceman yesterday, my sweetwater guy gave me $100 off MSRP so including taxes it'll come out to under retail to get it to my doorstep


----------



## adriangrizzly




----------



## JimF

Disappointed that's not an RG lower horn in that silhouette


----------



## JimF

Holy shit! Headless guitar!


----------



## diagrammatiks

adriangrizzly said:


>




straight frets so not for me. but I'm glad this exists.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Headless JS-looking sig for Ichika? Nifty. I'm amazed he's their first signature artist from Japan.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Ibanez 1 year ago. guys we lost that gaijin. make the next guy whatever he wants.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Headless JS-looking sig for Ichika? Nifty. I'm amazed he's their first signature artist from Japan.



it's more an modified smaller rg.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

about fucking time Ichika got a sig, he's a monster and I love his playing


----------



## diagrammatiks

Oh god so this is real

Does that mean those reverse slanted atrocities are real too


----------



## Albake21

Oh god no, please don't let those leaked images be real then. Huge swing and a miss for me if true. They were so ridiculous looking that it was hard to take them as serious leaks.


----------



## tian

https://twitter.com/ibanezofficial/status/1410251793314029568







and there it is...


----------



## Aaron

Albake21 said:


> Oh god no, please don't let those leaked images be real then. Huge swing and a miss for me if true. They were so ridiculous looking that it was hard to take them as serious leaks.



All the leaks were real. The weird slanted frets are real too. Im just waiting on an explanation on those frets.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> Oh god no, please don't let those leaked images be real then. Huge swing and a miss for me if true. They were so ridiculous looking that it was hard to take them as serious leaks.



the real ones do like a lot better then the leaked pictures though

unless ichiki got a completely different color for himself. that guitar in the video is completely different color from the catalogue.


----------



## diagrammatiks

tian said:


> https://twitter.com/ibanezofficial/status/1410251793314029568
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and there it is...



those frets make me angry to look at. is this how boomers feel when they see a Strandberg?


----------



## Seabeast2000

diagrammatiks said:


> those frets make me angry to look at. is this how boomers feel when they see a Strandberg?


Could be one of those "one year only" models, grab one while you can.


----------



## kuma

Aaron said:


> All the leaks were real. The weird slanted frets are real too. Im just waiting on an explanation on those frets.



From FB:

"The QX subseries is also equipped with innovative 8-degree inward slanted frets, uniquely tailoring their ergonomics to the benefit of highly technical players."

Not sure anything in that sentence is an actual explanation, but there you go lol.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Aaron said:


> Im just waiting on an explanation on those frets.



It's basically a continuation of the ergonomics implied by fanned frets, just with a single scale.

Everyone complains about the perpendicular fret on fanned guitars being too close to the bridge, like the 12th fret because it makes playing on the lower frets uncomfortable.

That's because your hand and wrist doesn't really want to rotate outwards. If you you hold your arms in front of you, you'll notice your palms face up and slightly inward, that's the path having slanted frets like this is trying to follow.

See what happens as you move the perpendicular fret towards the nut:


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah I don’t understand what effectively slanting the low end entirely toward the bridge does? I’m sure it’s just math I don’t get, but a “normal” fan makes the scale length longer on the low end, this doesn’t appear to?


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's basically a continuation of the ergonomics implied by fanned frets, just with a single scale.
> 
> Everyone complains about the perpendicular fret on fanned guitars being too close to the bridge, like the 12th fret because it makes playing on the lower frets uncomfortable.
> 
> That's because your hand and wrist doesn't really want to rotate outwards. If you you hold your arms in front of you, you'll notice your palms face up and slightly inward, that's the path having slanted frets like this is trying to follow.



And there it is. Would like to try this idea out in person.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah I don’t understand what effectively slanting the low end entirely toward the bridge does? I’m sure it’s just math I don’t get, but a “normal” fan makes the scale length longer on the low end, this doesn’t appear to?



There is no "fan". It's just rearranging the frets to slant along a single scale. 

Whether there is any real benefit is anyone's guess, but that's the concept in a nutshell.


----------



## trem licking

oh yay another fixed bridge headless (yawn). Kind of exciting in that i wont spend my money i guess


----------



## anunnaki

They’re here!

https://www.ibanez.com/eu/news/detail/20210624110251.html

With hss, sss, hh, 7 string and fanned frets so that no one one on 7string can complain about the options


----------



## Boojakki

Ibanez Q Series Headless Electric Guitars - Andertons Music Co.
Much lower priced than I expected it to be  They really want get into that market it seems...  (Oh, and lots of pics on the site to enjoy!)


----------



## ian540s

Has anybody mentioned that having 2 strap buttons is usually done so you can balance the instrument on it's end?
The bottom strap buttons aren't level on the same plane, so it would tip over... I can't see using both buttons as strap positions, but I guess so.


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

tian said:


> https://twitter.com/ibanezofficial/status/1410251793314029568
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and there it is...


When I said I'd drink a bottle of ketchup on livestream if Ibanez didn't announce a headless guitar this year, I wasn't expecting the guitars to be so ugly. The only upside is that I don't have to drink ketchup.


----------



## mbardu

Boojakki said:


> Ibanez Q Series Headless Electric Guitars - Andertons Music Co.
> Much lower priced than I expected it to be  They really want get into that market it seems...  (Oh, and lots of pics on the site to enjoy!)



Evo gold frets, roasted maple.
Those could sell.

I'm still not convinced half of them aren't an elaborate prank though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ian540s said:


> Has anybody mentioned that having 2 strap buttons is usually done so you can balance the instrument on it's end?
> The bottom strap buttons aren't level on the same plane, so it would tip over... I can't see using both buttons as strap positions, but I guess so.



I don't think the variance is enough to cause the instrument to tip one way or the other when leaning. The idea is you just don't want a center point to teeter on.


----------



## Jarmake

I don't know guys, I kinda like how these look and I can totally see how them weird slanted frets could be more comfy than normal frets. And at that pricepoint it gets even more interesting... Evo frets and all!


----------



## mbardu

Everyone already complaining here actually  .
Especially because of the slanted-not-fanned frets.


----------



## Boojakki

Well, at least I'm very much intrigued and want to get my hands on them to try 'em out as soon as I can!


----------



## diagrammatiks

Let’s not call them fanned frets.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

FromTheMausoleum said:


> When I said I'd drink a bottle of ketchup on livestream if Ibanez didn't announce a headless guitar this year, I wasn't expecting the guitars to be so ugly. The only upside is that I don't have to drink ketchup.



You did say "this NAMM" as in Winter NAMM. 

It's June homeboy. You want Heinz or you one of those weirdos who does Hunt's?


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's basically a continuation of the ergonomics implied by fanned frets, just with a single scale.
> 
> Everyone complains about the perpendicular fret on fanned guitars being too close to the bridge, like the 12th fret because it makes playing on the lower frets uncomfortable.
> 
> That's because your hand and wrist doesn't really want to rotate outwards. If you you hold your arms in front of you, you'll notice your palms face up and slightly inward, that's the path having slanted frets like this is trying to follow.
> 
> See what happens as you move the perpendicular fret towards the nut:
> 
> View attachment 95031
> View attachment 95032
> View attachment 95033



still find this very weird in theory. Because your wrist doesn’t want to bent inward when it’s that far from your body either.


----------



## mbardu

tian said:


> https://twitter.com/ibanezofficial/status/1410251793314029568
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and there it is...



Mini Ibanez logo


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> still find this very weird in theory. Because your wrist doesn’t want to bent inward when it’s that far from your body either.



If you look at players' fretting hands, they all seem to favor facing inward.

Think about it, we tend to want the guitar's frets swept this way when we wear guitars on straps with the body lower than the headstock.


----------



## BillCosby

Might be worth a shot, I know playing on the upper frets of a multiscale was always comfy for me, so I might actually like the slanted frets on the 7.

So, now I need to buy the Xiphos 7, Iceman 7, and the Q527. And to think of ways to convince my wife I always had them.


----------



## mbardu

MaxOfMetal said:


> You did say "this NAMM" as in Winter NAMM.
> 
> It's June homeboy. You want Heinz or you one of those weirdos who does Hunt's?



A Dingwall and Sully owner, you can bet it's going to be a weird hipster tomato-free ketchup we've never even heard of.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

We heard you like multiscales so we slanted a regular scale to give you none of the tonal benefits a multiscale has and then did the opposite of those tonal benefits by keeping the pickups straight.


----------



## Albake21

Aaron said:


> All the leaks were real. The weird slanted frets are real too. Im just waiting on an explanation on those frets.



According to the announcement, it's supposed to make playing more comfortable for your hand shape. Although I feel like that's only going to be for specific players as everyone plays the guitar uniquely. I definitely would like to try one, at least just for the new concept alone.



diagrammatiks said:


> the real ones do like a lot better then the leaked pictures though
> 
> unless ichiki got a completely different color for himself. that guitar in the video is completely different color from the catalogue.



They definitely do look a lot better than the weird renders we saw back, still not my thing though. I'm at least happy for those who have been wanting a headless Ibanez.


----------



## mbardu

Lorcan Ward said:


> We heard you like multiscales so we slanted a regular scale to give you none of the tonal benefits a multiscale has and then did the opposite of those tonal benefits by keeping the pickups straight.



Tonal benefits of slanted pickups is not the biggest thing in the world... As for the shape, the slant may make it more comfortable for some players, I don't know. Some larger fans with high parallel frets are definitely very tough for chording.

Of course you lose the entire aspect of better string tension though, that's for sure.


----------



## kisielk

Sadly it seems they are still using grub screws for string locking at the headstock... why do headless guitar makers make us suffer with these?


----------



## bigcupholder

The slanted frets look like they'd be incredibly uncomfortable on the low frets. Really weird idea.


----------



## mbardu

bigcupholder said:


> The slanted frets look like they'd be incredibly uncomfortable on the low frets. Really weird idea.



Interestingly I bet it's designed to do exactly the opposite of that


----------



## cardinal

I'll give the slanted frets a go but is there an 8-string? Ibanez: why don't you love us 8-string users any more? (I'm guessing we don't buy enough stuff).


----------



## Quiet Coil

Oh Lordy. Well, props to Ibby for rolling out something this [email protected]$h!t. To me the real question is - will the line do well enough to make an _actual_ multi-scale in a year or two?


----------



## StevenC

Whybanez?

Look, maybe it does work. I'll try anything once, but it just seems so half hearted.


----------



## bigcupholder

mbardu said:


> Interestingly I bet it's designed to do exactly the opposite of that


The reason that the fan is supposedly comfortable on multiscale guitars is that it follows the natural angle of your hand up and down the neck. At the low frets your hand is further away from your body than your elbow, so your fingers tend to tilt out more. The opposite is true on higher frets obviously.

So you'd need to really keep your elbow out to play those low frets comfortably.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you look at players' fretting hands, they all seem to favor facing inward.
> 
> Think about it, we tend to want the guitar's frets swept this way when we wear guitars on straps with the body lower than the headstock.


I tried some Ormsbies at a store and that shit almost broke my hand !! Total bullshit that outwards fanned frets are ergonomic.. Ibanez has it right now this second time, after their multiscale RG fail. 
But yes they could angle their pickups
And I personally would like to see something with a longer scale but I think it's a good start
And like Harley Benton they were very careful with the shape
And typical Ibanez the basses are still cooler than the headless guitars IMO


----------



## I play music

So Ibanez EHB basically is a strandberg bass killer. Now with the guitars I can't imagine a lot of people buying a Strandberg still.


----------



## I play music

bigcupholder said:


> The reason that the fan is supposedly comfortable on multiscale guitars is that it follows the natural angle of your hand up and down the neck. At the low frets your hand is further away from your body than your elbow, so your fingers tend to tilt out more. The opposite is true on higher frets obviously.
> 
> So you'd need to really keep your elbow out to play those low frets comfortably.


I have tried an Ormsby and say the opposite, angling your hand outwards is totally uncomfortable, Ibanez does it right man
The angle I mean, however I would want a longer scale


----------



## mbardu

bigcupholder said:


> The reason that the fan is supposedly comfortable on multiscale guitars* is that it follows the natural angle of your hand up and down the neck*. At the low frets your hand is further away from your body than your elbow, so your fingers tend to tilt out more. The opposite is true on higher frets obviously.
> 
> So you'd need to really keep your elbow out to play those low frets comfortably.



In theory, maybe. And even so, mostly in the upper frets.
Here and in the low frets, kinda the opposite.

With the guitar above, you can keep your elbow naturally to your side, and still be able to comfortably play chords. The frets are nicely aligned with your arm and wrist.
Compare to an Ormsby GTR and playing chords in low frets is going to force you to either push your elbow out, or twist your wrist so that your hand is back in alignment.

Doesn't mean the GTR is a bad guitar either. It's good in the upper frets, and it's good for chugging with nice tension down low. But looks like Ibanez would do chording better.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I play music said:


> So Ibanez EHB basically is a strandberg bass killer. Now with the guitars I can't imagine a lot of people buying a Strandberg still.



if only the bass team made guitars.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

StevenC said:


> Whybanez?
> 
> Look, maybe it does work. I'll try anything once, but it just seems so half hearted.



If anything, it would have been "easier" to sell a normal multiscale like what everyone expected. Their idea might not actually work, but it's worth giving it a try!


----------



## Randy

I was starting to think they were an April Fool's joke


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you look at players' fretting hands, they all seem to favor facing inward.
> 
> Think about it, we tend to want the guitar's frets swept this way when we wear guitars on straps with the body lower than the headstock.



based on my 100 scientific testing.

In classical position

For barring near the nut. Straight frets are definitely the most comfortable 

Regular multi scale second.

this Ibanez thingy. No workie guys.

However, for big non-barred open chords and jazz chords it's a little bit better

Big However -if playing like Ichika, given how small the guitar seems to be. It actually works 

It didn't take a picture that position because I'm uggo and partially nekkid.


----------



## narad

I like the idea that Ibanez just totally got the frets wrong. Like someone on the internet would be like, "It's fanned because the frets follow the angle of your hand" and all of Ibanez would just be like, "What!? That's why they were like that!? Fuuuuck, fuck, fuck!"

Also where's that Ichika sig? That was the best one.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> I like the idea that Ibanez just totally got the frets wrong. Like someone on the internet would be like, "It's fanned because the frets follow the angle of your hand" and all of Ibanez would just be like, "What!? That's why they were like that!? Fuuuuck, fuck, fuck!"
> 
> Also where's that Ichika sig? That was the best one.



I'll keep an open mind. And I have more Ibanez's then any other single brand of guitar.

But I also believe whole heartedly that Ibanez can get stuff straight up wrong.


----------



## mbardu

diagrammatiks said:


> View attachment 95035




Your second picture demonstrates exactly what the Ibanez design may do better.
Angle the frets the Ibanez way, and your elbow>wrist>hand are all aligned with the frets for easy chording.
Angle the frets like a 25.5/28 Ormsby, and you'd have your elbow>wrist>hand aligned, but frets 1/3 almost perpendicular - which is pretty much the opposite of comfortable.

Here's Ibanez shape:



Here's Ormsby/regular shape:



Which one forces you to twist your wrist?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Has this one simple slant mod never been done before? Seems easy enough to trial decades ago.


----------



## narad

diagrammatiks said:


> But I also believe whole heartedly that Ibanez can get stuff straight up wrong.



But I guess that would rule out the frets then.


----------



## diagrammatiks

mbardu said:


> Your second picture demonstrates exactly what the Ibanez design may do better.
> Angle the frets the Ibanez way, and your elbow>wrist>hand are all aligned with the frets for easy chording.
> Angle the frets like a 25.5/28 Ormsby, and you'd have your elbow>wrist>hand aligned, but frets 1/3 almost perpendicular - which is pretty much the opposite of comfortable.



dude try it. you don't even know how much it hurts. just use a capo like I did. Classical position and compare straight to the slant.

If I tried to do it on my baritones I would break my hand.


----------



## Bdtunn

I think the specs on the 6 sting look great! I’d try one for sure. I love that the neck stays a consistent 19mm the whole way down.


----------



## mbardu

narad said:


> I like the idea that Ibanez just totally got the frets wrong. Like someone on the internet would be like, "It's fanned because the frets follow the angle of your hand" and all of Ibanez would just be like, "What!? That's why they were like that!? Fuuuuck, fuck, fuck!"
> 
> Also where's that Ichika sig? That was the best one.



Duuuude, you accidentally pressed "flip horizontally" and now we have a whole line of guitars that's just wroooong 

Seriously though, I don't think one is wrong and the other is right.
Traditional headless and why they're popular is the nice tension for chugging down low, plus nice highs for soloing.
The painful chords have often been a downside of that approach, and for a significant number of people.
Not a dealbreaker, but chording was never a strong point.

Looks like the Ibanez one may fix that, but of course not helping string tension at all.



diagrammatiks said:


> But I also believe whole heartedly that Ibanez can get stuff straight up wrong.



This is the true truth though.


----------



## Quiet Coil

diagrammatiks said:


> if only the bass team made guitars.



For realz! I just got my hands on the short multi-scale EHB 5 and choosing between it and the long-multi EHB I already had is going to be harder than I thought! Meanwhile in the guitar division…
 

Also, “Q(Quest)” because “\Backslash” came across as mocking their own product.


----------



## mbardu

diagrammatiks said:


> dude try it. you don't even know how much it hurts. just use a capo like I did. Classical position and compare straight to the slant.
> 
> If I tried to do it on my baritones I would break my hand.



I don't need a capo. I have a multiscale on my lap now, and playing big chords is just not the most comfortable experience.
Same for arpegiating down low btw.

Regular/traditional is OK and obviously the one we're most used to.
But the Ibanez design could be even _better _for those cases.

I know full well about hand pain because I have 100% the same experience as @"I Play Music" with Ormsby trying to do even "simple" chords in the first frets. It's just un-natural.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

meh, hard pass


----------



## diagrammatiks

mbardu said:


> I don't need a capo. I have a multiscale on my lap now, and playing big chords is just not the most comfortable experience.
> Same for arpegiating down low btw.
> 
> Regular/traditional is OK and obviously the one we're most used to.
> The Ibanez design would be better for those cases.
> 
> I know full well about hand pain because I have 100% the same experience as @"I Play Music" with Ormsby trying to do even "simple" chords in the first frets. It's just un-natural.



ya the Ormsby fan is a little too big. I did say that straight frets are still the most comfortable classical at the nut.

I'm willing to say that slanting the frets like that would be perfect for people that hold their guitar like ichika does in the video.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Seabeast2000 said:


> Has this one simple slant mod never been done before? Seems easy enough to trial decades ago.



You'd be correct. I remember seeing a video awhile back of Rickenbackers that had the slant frets. 













FWIW this guitar (and concept) stayed in the '70s.


----------



## Lopp

Lorcan Ward said:


> We heard you like multiscales so we slanted a regular scale to give you none of the tonal benefits a multiscale has and then did the opposite of those tonal benefits by keeping the pickups straight.





mbardu said:


> Tonal benefits of slanted pickups is not the biggest thing in the world...





I play music said:


> But yes they could angle their pickups



I'm confused about the comments about the pickup non-slant. Most seem to indicate Ibanez should have slanted their pickups, like that is what is supposed to be done. Instead, it seems like a matter of personal preference of what kind of tone you want out of the pickup.

To support Ibanez's choice, Fender slants many their bridge pickups to angle closer to the center of the string on the low strings, which seems to result in a similar tonal balance to the Ibanez. Other guitars, like the Gibson Nighthawk, do the same.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I totally love this black one though. 
If it even had the small Strandberg fan I'd order one.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

mbardu said:


> Tonal benefits of slanted pickups is not the biggest thing in the world... As for the shape, the slant may make it more comfortable for some players, I don't know. Some larger fans with high parallel frets are definitely very tough for chording.
> 
> Of course you lose the entire aspect of better string tension though, that's for sure.



To guys like Nolly and Lasse Lammert pickup position is one of the biggest things for tone. Nolly even modified his B2 just to get closer to the bridge.

The slant depends on the player and what you’re playing. The small slant in the upper frets is very beneficial imo and more comfortable when compared to a straight scale. The lower fret slant for me wouldn’t be comfortable but I can see how some people might like it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Page is dead ATM, but in case it comes back up:
https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/ichi10_1p_01.html

This is slick, tho. An S-S-S one.


----------



## lurè

that is more of a mini headstock then actual headless


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lurè said:


> that is more of a mini headstock then actual headless



That's honestly my main complaint. I'm guessing this was a simpler, cheaper solution than having a Steinberger-style nut and locking assembly, though.


----------



## Seabeast2000

$1000 for white sss one


----------



## Masoo2

I'm just surprised that Ichika is their first Japanese signature artist

Like it boggles my mind to hear that but I don't doubt it's true

Good on Ichika for the rumors being true, he deserves it

Shame they're so weird lmao


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Masoo2 said:


> I'm just surprised that Ichika is their first Japanese signature artist
> 
> Like it boggles my mind to hear that but I don't doubt it's true



wow, really?! 

apart from Lisa X and Ichika are there many Japenese players who endorse Ibanez?


----------



## lurè

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's honestly my main complaint. I'm guessing this was a simpler, cheaper solution than having a Steinberger-style nut and locking assembly, though.


I always prefer the Steinberger nut, but even what they did with the EHB series was waay better than this garbage,


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lurè said:


> I always prefer the Steinberger nut, but even what they did with the EHB series was waay better than this garbage,



The SB nut had to use double-ball-end strings though, and supposedly the Synapse series nuts (which tried to remedy this) was a piece of crap.


----------



## lurè

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The SB nut had to use double-ball-end strings though, and supposedly the Synapse series nuts (which tried to remedy this) was a piece of crap.



I meant the approach of just cutting the headstock to the nut without having too much wood left over, like Kiesel does.


----------



## I play music

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The SB nut had to use double-ball-end strings though, and supposedly the Synapse series nuts (which tried to remedy this) was a piece of crap.












The best one is this one but I think he has it patented, so everyone else uses the dumb clamping at the headpiece thing instead


----------



## Randy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's honestly my main complaint. I'm guessing this was a simpler, cheaper solution than having a Steinberger-style nut and locking assembly, though.



Which is a shame if that's what they did. The main reasons a headless fan (such as myself) was hoping for an Ibanez version was mix of features with price, and the fact Ibanez has the resources to make this however they want with no compromises.

The fact they would invent bizarro parallel fret scale thing but cheapskate the no-stock design to save on parts/labor would be super disappointing.


----------



## Kaura

Oh man, I'm so glad to be a Strat guy.


----------



## I play music

lurè said:


> I meant the approach of just cutting the headstock to the nut without having too much wood left over, like Kiesel does.


Can't please everyone I guess. Either people complain they can't put it in their guitar hanger and have nothing to stop their hand from going beyond the end of the neck or they complain about the headpiece being too big


----------



## Randy

I play music said:


> The best one is this one but I think he has it patented, so everyone else uses the dumb clamping at the headpiece thing instead



TBH, the ZT3 and Jcustom solutions worked fine. Even the 'add on' clamping block for the standard Steiny works fine. TBH, considering Ibanez's resources, they also could've done ball end at the top and string loops through saddle receiver like I've see an few companies do.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Randy said:


> Which is a shame if that's what they did. The main reasons a headless fan (such as myself) was hoping for an Ibanez version was mix of features with price, and the fact Ibanez has the resources to make this however they want with no compromises.
> 
> The fact they would invent bizarro parallel fret scale thing but cheapskate the non-stock design to save on parts/labor would be super disappointing.



I mean given the price of these ($1000) it does seem like they tried to cut some corners given how expensive a lot of their top-tier Indo guitars have been getting.


----------



## Randy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean given the price of these ($1000) it does seem like they tried to cut some corners given how expensive a lot of their top-tier Indo guitars have been getting.



I saw the low end of these cheap but I'm assuming theres a Premium/Prestige version to go with it? I mean, they're spending the $$$ to get those bridges made and whatever added machining goes into those parallel frets. Just seems like a weird place to cut corners. Headless guitar, hey lets not go overboard on the headless part guys, this is good enough.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm agreeing it's definitely a dumb idea, just trying to think of the possible reason why they went that route. Shit it could just be a simple dumb design choice because people might complain about wall hangers, as said above.


----------



## lurè

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm agreeing it's definitely a dumb idea, just trying to think of the possible reason why they went that route. Shit it could just be a simple dumb design choice because people might complain about wall hangers, as said above.



I guess is the wall hangers thing, or they just didn't know where to put the logo.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lurè said:


> I guess is the wall hangers thing, or they just didn't know where to put the logo.



I mean I can see guitar stores complaining to Ibanez.  You have a mass-produced headless and like... how do you show it off? My nearest GC only uses wall hangers.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Me seeing "Ibanez Headless". Yay!!!
Me seeing pictures - OMG so ugly. 
Like Saber had a baby with PRS John Mayer. A underdeveloped, handicap baby 
And that turbo roasted maple with deep poo brown tint...on white body... looks like 
Why? Ibanez, why You do dis? 
I hoped them to make one. They already had a great platform:




Just give it a new edge-based bridge and new locking nut. They could incorporate their trademark headstock shape - the very end of their headstock (in reversed ver) could look so dope as the finishing of the neck. But no. Let's make microheadstock that looks like a fisting toy from adult videos 
And icing on a cake: pointless, angled frets

PS. Sorry for my rant. I'm typical SSO user: "they made a guitar, but it is not what I wished them to make"... booo


----------



## AltecGreen

Lorcan Ward said:


> wow, really?!
> 
> apart from Lisa X and Ichika are there many Japenese players who endorse Ibanez?




There are a fair number of players who use primarily Ibanez but I don't believe any of them are endorsed. 

Ibanez is the opposite of ESP where ESP is very active in signing Japanese domestic artists.


----------



## mbardu

Wait wait wait....are we saying that this has too big of a headstock now? Like...seriously?
Most "Headless" guitars have some form of headpiece past the nut, Ibanez is far from unique.
Looks a bit longer than Strandberg, but not bigger than Mayo for example?
Hardly looks crazy.

Kiesel has almost nothing past the nut, but their design sometimes leads to cracks in the neck, so that's hardly better if you're among the unlucky owners.

Re: hangers...this is probably not even part of the discussion, the shape that the Ibanez headpiece has will still not work with traditional hangers as it is either. Just too thin.


----------



## Dayn

So it wasn't an April fools joke. They look better in person.

The single scale slanted frets are doing my head in. They only look comfortable if you play with it on your right leg, which I never do. It'd hurt my wrist to play it in classical position.

Apart from that, I'm glad they're doing something different, at least? I don't hate the Ichika sig. It doesn't look as bulbous as the picture.


----------



## I play music

mbardu said:


> Wait wait wait....are we saying that this has too big of a headstock now? Like...seriously?
> Most "Headless" guitars have some form of headpiece past the nut, Ibanez is far from unique.
> Looks a bit longer than Strandberg, but not bigger than Mayo for example?
> Hardly looks crazy.
> 
> Kiesel has almost nothing past the nut, but their design sometimes leads to cracks in the neck, so that's hardly better if you're among the unlucky owners.
> 
> Re: hangers...this is probably not even part of the discussion, the shape that the Ibanez headpiece has will still not work with traditional hangers as it is either. Just too thin.


I'm not sure what people were expecting. I was expecting pretty much exactly what they made. A solid addition to the headless market without any game changing design or other risks, just a "safe" version. And it fits quite nicely in that price gap between overly expensive hyped headless guitars (Strandberg) and the cheap Aliexpress crap (Eart, GOC, NK)


----------



## I play music

What I don't know is why Ibanez can do the basses with stainless steel frets but the guitars they try everything to get around doing that, first their "extra hardened" frets and now the Evo gold ..


----------



## mbardu

I play music said:


> What I don't know is why Ibanez can do the basses with stainless steel frets but the guitars they try everything to get around doing that, first their "extra hardened" frets and now the Evo gold ..



EVO gold is not bad either. Not quite as hard, but can look cool with some specs.
There are some nice Premiums with stainless steel frets too.
Even a few Prestige for that matter.

At least they have _some _stuff...look at Jackson imports  !


----------



## InfinityCollision

I really, really hate that slant. The arm position I'd need to make that work near the nut requires so much more effort to maintain, puts tension on my elbow, and encourages more bend in my wrist. No thanks.


----------



## josh1

Can't lie, I do like the Ichika sig.


----------



## tian

Well as someone who likes the shape and style and had been contemplating picking up something hardtail, comfy and strat-ish, this checks a lot of boxes for me. The Ichika is very tempting a that price point...

I want to like the slant models but would have preferred just a normal multiscale. And it seems like it's going to be one of those things you can't just be indifferent about; going to be very love hate but I guess we'll learn more as demos start appearing.


----------



## ExileMetal

I say this as a lifelong Ibanez only player who just last month decided to try my first Strandberg:

These are fucking hideous.


----------



## diagrammatiks

mbardu said:


> Wait wait wait....are we saying that this has too big of a headstock now? Like...seriously?
> Most "Headless" guitars have some form of headpiece past the nut, Ibanez is far from unique.
> Looks a bit longer than Strandberg, but not bigger than Mayo for example?
> Hardly looks crazy.
> 
> Kiesel has almost nothing past the nut, but their design sometimes leads to cracks in the neck, so that's hardly better if you're among the unlucky owners.
> 
> Re: hangers...this is probably not even part of the discussion, the shape that the Ibanez headpiece has will still not work with traditional hangers as it is either. Just too thin.



Ya if only some other company could invent an elegant solution for Ibanez to copy. Maybe this company?





I play music said:


> I'm not sure what people were expecting. I was expecting pretty much exactly what they made. A solid addition to the headless market without any game changing design or other risks, just a "safe" version. And it fits quite nicely in that price gap between overly expensive hyped headless guitars (Strandberg) and the cheap Aliexpress crap (Eart, GOC, NK)



Ya goc and nk are going to be just as well made as these.


----------



## spudmunkey

For anyone curious, there are vertical wall mounts for headless guitars. This is the "wall stand" from String Swing:


----------



## mbardu

diagrammatiks said:


> Ya if only some other company could invent an elegant solution for Ibanez to copy. Maybe this company?
> 
> View attachment 95065



The funniest part of that post is that I bet if you measure past the nut, the guitar's headpiece is hardly any longer than the one on the bass. Whoops!


----------



## bostjan

Online retailers are calling the QX527 a multiscale.

I don't see this parallel slant thing working out, but crazier things have happened. It just seems to me like the entire idea is going to get crapped on by everyone before anyone even tries it.

And, from the standpoint of just common sense, it really seems to have little chance of being comfortable to play. Oh well, at just over $1k, it might not be too insane to pick one up and try it, then just return it if it is truly as dumb as it seems...


----------



## Jonathan20022

It blows my mind that in 2021 that a manufacturer breaking from the norm and trying something new can get so much negative reception 

It's not even like we don't have multiscale/headless options to compete with these, I'd understand it if I your only options were a 3 thousand dollar Indo Strandberg.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> It blows my mind that in 2021 that a manufacturer breaking from the norm and trying something new can get so much negative reception
> 
> It's not even like we don't have multiscale/headless options to compete with these, I'd understand it if I your only options were a 3 thousand dollar Indo Strandberg.



That's the thing, just about everyone else in this space (~$1k headless) is either making shameless Steinberger clones or shameless Strandberg clones, at least this is something different.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jonathan20022 said:


> It blows my mind that in 2021 that a manufacturer breaking from the norm and trying something new can get so much negative reception
> 
> It's not even like we don't have multiscale/headless options to compete with these, I'd understand it if I your only options were a 3 thousand dollar Indo Strandberg.



u forget that ur in an Ibanez product announcement thread. 

doesn’t this at least beat talking about the color.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> u forget that ur in an Ibanez product announcement thread.
> 
> doesn’t this at least beat talking about the color.



Wait, no one's brought up how ugly and flat that burl is?


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, no one's brought up how ugly and flat that burl is?



see. Someone at Ibanez is getting a raise.


----------



## tian

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, no one's brought up how ugly and flat that burl is?


I was just thankful Ibanez made my decision-making process easier lol. Just that one terrible color and no straight fret option it seems.


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

MaxOfMetal said:


> You did say "this NAMM" as in Winter NAMM.
> 
> It's June homeboy. You want Heinz or you one of those weirdos who does Hunt's?


I uh, I'll pick up some Trader Joe's ketchup.. :/


----------



## Hollowway

I’m not super into these, but I DO love the out-of-the-box thinking that Ibanez does. We need more of that. I don’t care if they miss the mark sometimes - it’s just cool that such a big company is nimble enough to take chances. 

When I first saw the design at work I thought it was a non-starter, but when I got home put a guitar on my lap, made an F major barre chord at the first fret (and then promptly put the guitar back on the stand, and went back to browsing the internet, rather than practicing ) and noticed that this would actually work well for the way my hand slants for chording near the nut. 

I agree with @cardinal, though, and wish there was an 8 string version. But shoot, at this price I might pick one up just to mess with, and make sure the guy who came ip with this doesn’t get fired.


----------



## Wucan

It's like Ibanez took the whole thing about multi-scale being uncomfortable for chords and thought "if slanting to the right makes it harder to chord, then slanting to the left makes it easier!"

It's one of those things I'd have to try in store before making up my mind. But like Hollowway I've noticed my fretting hand slants a bit towards the body... if you barre chords a lot it becomes a habit - because you have to roll your fingers in an angle. They might be onto something... just wish they had the usual pencil thin necks instead of making them as thick as Fenders.


----------



## Dooky

Not my thing. I'll stick with my old school RGs and pretend I'm still living the dream in the 1990s


----------



## Lorcan Ward

There was a builder raving about this design 10 years ago but nobody was interested in his guitars. I think I have some pics on my computer. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, no one's brought up how ugly and flat that burl is?



That’s motion 4 of 7. We still need to discuss indo quality and the fret material first.


----------



## HoneyNut

The top horn and lower horn (without the cutout) look borrowed from the S-series. The body isn't as thin as the S though.

What's up with the shape though? It looks like amoeba to me. I really want a headless guitar from an accessible company. Makes me want a Strandberg more. Boden or Salen. Now I'm gassing for a Strandberg.


----------



## HoneyNut

Dooky said:


> Not my thing. I'll stick with my old school RGs and pretend I'm still living the dream in the 1990s



Showing our age? Like, yes, I'm all about thinking forward, I like the idea of an instrument that's no frills and ergonimic primarily. 

But just take a look at Michael Amott with the ESP or Chris Amott with his Caparision. I mean, I primarily got hooked to Ibanez because of the headstock. Ibanez has the best looking headstock. 

Most headless guitars doesn't inspire that visceral feeling like those 80s metal guitars do for me. Maybe I am from a generation that's a little older? I also don't like the guitars from a generation older than mine much. 

Am I becoming the big belly-uncle with his pointy guitar?


----------



## LordHar

Interesting to see that the neck thickness on the non-slanted is 21-22 mm, and on the slanted 19-19 mm.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Intonation could be a big problem. They've slanted the frets so they have had to slant the bridge but a bridge is already at a slant when intonated correctly. So you will need a lot more room on that low string to get it intonated to B. It depends how much you can push those saddles back.


----------



## HoneyNut

Anybody know what those pickups are? 

q58 - alnico
R1 - alnico


----------



## Crundles

You know what, someone at Ibanez said to themselves "Don't let your memes be dreams", and I can damn well respect that.

Hopefully more major companies embrace headlessness, and we can get some improvements in the hardware going, maybe some economies of scale. 

Sidenote, I'm hella tempted by the new Iceman, but I know from experience that I abhor thin, flat Ibanez necks, and that makes me The Sad.


----------



## Quiet Coil

To echo what others have said…

For me it’s mainly disappointing as they showed us they could make something functional, beautiful, and even somewhat unique with the EHB line. The “Q” however seems to have taken little if any direction from there.

Not saying I wouldn’t consider one if I found the specs appealing, but between these specs _and_ those aesthetics… yeah, no.

EDIT: I guess my only concern is that these do poorly and the line dies off before they branch out. That would be the real downside of such a bold move (I daresay they’ve done it before).


----------



## diagrammatiks

Quiet Coil said:


> To echo what others have said…
> 
> For me it’s mainly disappointing as they showed us they could make something functional, beautiful, and even somewhat unique with the EHB line. The “Q” however seems to have taken little if any direction from there.
> 
> Not saying I wouldn’t consider one if I found the specs appealing, but between these specs _and_ those aesthetics… yeah, no.
> 
> EDIT: I guess my only concern is that these do poorly and the line dies off before they branch out. That would be the real downside of such a bold move (I daresay they’ve done it before).



The straight scales i think will sell well enough given ibanez distribution.

These are cheaper than the GOC which is really only available to internet dwellers. It will be fine.

bachus has been doing these for a about a year or more now and they are doing just fine


----------



## HoneyNut

The nicest aesthetics on a headless (IMO) is the Mayoness Hydra. I wish Ibanez would make a 'metal' headless guitar, ahem, pointy type headless.


----------



## JimF

HoneyNut said:


> I wish Ibanez would make a 'metal' headless guitar, ahem, pointy type headless.



Eugh, don't remind me those Kiesel abortions exist


----------



## HoneyNut

JimF said:


> Eugh, don't remind me those Kiesel abortions exist


I don't like any Kiesel. Great concept and what not, but the shapes always seem to be off. Not even close.

But the Boden or Hydra, OTH, are really inspiring.


----------



## JimF

Yes that's true. The Kiesel pointies seem very much like a "must avoid trademarked shapes" design. Odd & pointy for the sake of it. Like the security guard's V in the Breaking the Law video


----------



## HoneyNut

JimF said:


> Yes that's true. The Kiesel pointies seem very much like a "must avoid trademarked shapes" design. Odd & pointy for the sake of it. Like the security guard's V in the Breaking the Law video



hehehe. I miss that video! 

Ok. Imagine a Horizon's horns, with the angular elbow rest and lap rest of the boden. (Dont mean to derail the thread, just a slight diversion). I'm sure it can be done. Just that not too many has done it properly yet.


----------



## JimF

Ooh yes that would work.
Conversely to my previous post, I think the Kiesel Vader design is perfect.


----------



## Exit Existence

I'm not sure if pricing has been revealed yet but I found the following pre-orders on a UK site
Solid Matte models and Pickguard models £859 (Probably $1199 USD)
The Aqua quilt top 6 £929 (Probably $1299)
7 String burl £1,019 (Probably $1399)

Can anyone confirm? Seems reasonable.


----------



## josh1

Exit Existence said:


> I'm not sure if pricing has been revealed yet but I found the following pre-orders on a UK site
> Solid Matte models and Pickguard models £859 (Probably $1199 USD)
> The Aqua quilt top 6 £929 (Probably $1299)
> 7 String burl £1,019 (Probably $1399)
> 
> Can anyone confirm? Seems reasonable.


Aqua quilt and 7 string are 1099. The rest are 999. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Ibanez+q


----------



## lurè

Maybe the price is the only thing they got right


----------



## odibrom

They're labeled as *REGULAR *models in the Ibanez site, not Iron Label, not Axion Label, not Premium, not Prestige and certainly not J-Custom...


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE

Oh fun, they have the AZ-style switching with the 'Alter Switch.'


----------



## Exit Existence

The seafoam green HSS one though looks sickkkkkkkkkkk. Time to move some gear


----------



## josh1

New super affordable AZ's. 

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-az-essentials-6str-electric-guitar/l87227

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-az-essentials-6str-electric-guitar


----------



## USMarine75

I guess I'm the only one who likes it because I just pre-ordered the Ichika one.


----------



## josh1

USMarine75 said:


> I guess I'm the only one who likes it because I just pre-ordered the Ichika one.


I like that one too. Do you know approximately when it'll arrive? I saw January.


----------



## USMarine75

josh1 said:


> I like that one too. Do you know approximately when it'll arrive? I saw January.



Standby I'll let you know what I hear back.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

josh1 said:


> New super affordable AZ's.
> 
> https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-az-essentials-6str-electric-guitar/l87227
> 
> https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ibanez-az-essentials-6str-electric-guitar



"Essential" being a euphemism for "GIO" apparently.


----------



## I play music




----------



## CanserDYI

^Man. I like prog music. But the hell was that for a demo. The B string was out of tune also.....listen to the terrible dissonance on the low chordings he's doing. There were cool parts of that, but man. That was not a good song to demo the guitar.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Also is that guy going to play any notes on the bottom strings by the nut? No? Not once the whole demo? Because it would break your hand? Make sense.


----------



## USMarine75

I play music said:


>






Yeah much better demo here lol


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Generally I don't like headless, as I found the headless a distinctive trait of a guitar, but there are some nice looking headless around
That's not the case of those Ibanez


----------



## I play music

USMarine75 said:


> Yeah much better demo here lol



I agree, just posted it because it's the first video of the guitar
and if I saw one like that in the wild maybe I wouldn't even notice it's not another Kiesel or something


----------



## I play music

Without the veener it would be a very beautiful guitar
it actually is but only from the back
too bad that's not the side people look at most of the time
it's like that keith merrow guitar, that looks better from the back too


----------



## mbardu

diagrammatiks said:


> Also is that guy going to play any notes on the bottom strings by the nut? No? Not once the whole demo? Because it would break your hand? Make sense.



Wat? Did you watch the video or...? He literally plays just that (the bottom strings and frets) at ~25 seconds in, and you can tell it's a pretty natural position.
You're really trying hard to bring a problem where there is no reason to. Maybe the design will be dumb for some playing scenarios, and obviously it has no benefit for string tension. But playing near the nut? It looks like this is where it would work better than traditional fans or perpendicular frets. Shoulder>arm>wrist>hand>frets all aligned, I'm not sure what could be bad there.

On the other hand, chording issues with the most common fanned guitars are well documented. Watch someone play things like barred F chords on an Ormsby type of fan, and talk about hand-breaking


----------



## Quiet Coil

Did we already point out the FB radius? 12” on the straight frets, 20” on the slanted…


----------



## USMarine75

I play music said:


>




I listenee to this on my nice tv sound system. It is one of the worst demos I've ever heard. The tone is shrill. The note choice is among the worst I've ever heard. Just utter nonsense... Completely unmusical... Legato Diarrhea.


----------



## sirbuh

USMarine75 said:


> I listenee to this on my nice tv sound system. It is one of the worst demos I've ever heard. The tone is shrill. The note choice is among the worst I've ever heard. Just utter nonsense... Completely unmusical... Legato Diarrhea.



you know, that link didnt need to be posted here...


----------



## USMarine75

sirbuh said:


> you know, that link didnt need to be posted here...



I wish it wasn't lol


----------



## I play music

USMarine75 said:


> I wish it wasn't lol


sorry
I would delete it but can't edit any more


----------



## AltecGreen

Jonathan20022 said:


> It blows my mind that in 2021 that a manufacturer breaking from the norm and trying something new can get so much negative reception
> 
> It's not even like we don't have multiscale/headless options to compete with these, I'd understand it if I your only options were a 3 thousand dollar Indo Strandberg.




The biggest irony is that these are getting a far more positive reception on TGP. The end times are coming.


----------



## odibrom

My opinion in this slanted frets isn't formed yet. I'd have to test in my hands to form express any idea. Personally, it kind of sounds logical, but may depend on the angle, I guess. If it works or not will depend on each one's hands. It's like the other thread someone asking if should "upgrade" to a multiscale guitar. Slanted, multiscales, regular parallel, true temperament, it's all marketing until one tries and decides which works best and what not. How about _Slanted True temperament_? That's the next big thing, right?


----------



## USMarine75

I can't think of one guitarist I like that uses slanted, true temperment, or multiscale frets other than Mattias IA EKhlund. I'll take regular (preferably stainless) frets FTW.


----------



## CanserDYI

AltecGreen said:


> The biggest irony is that these are getting a far more positive reception on TGP. The end times are coming.


This killed me.


----------



## danbox

USMarine75 said:


> I can't think of one guitarist I like that uses slanted, true temperment, or multiscale frets other than Mattias IA EKhlund. I'll take regular (preferably stainless) frets FTW.


Per Nilson of scar symmetry and meshuggah uses multiscale true temperament 8 string iirc

but yeah it’s interesting to see straight scale guitars everywhere; could just be a generational gap. No use in changing if you have a million hours in straight scale


----------



## tian

I'm in for an Ichika but curious how the slanted frets are going to be received once they're actually in players hands.

Can't help but notice that all the marketing speak for the slanted frets seems like it's setting them up to pair with the Ichika model yet he opted for straight frets. Would be curious if there's a story there.


----------



## narad

AltecGreen said:


> The biggest irony is that these are getting a far more positive reception on TGP. The end times are coming.



People just get less cynical as they get older. It's SSO people that have to actually buy these things.


----------



## AltecGreen

narad said:


> People just get less cynical as they get older. It's SSO people that have to actually buy these things.


Normally, TGP is pretty negative on headless or guitars with any modern improvements. But, I was surprised at the positive reaction and by members who aren't into modern guitars.

The funniest thing I saw on TGP was the Kiesel brigade coming in to promote Kiesel on that Ibanez headless thread.


----------



## narad

lol, yea, thought I was in a kiesel thread for a second there...


----------



## Marv Attaxx

While I'll probably stick to RGs for the rest of my life, these are growning on me.
And from a design perspective they kinda look like a modern version of those axstar headless models they made in the 80s 
Would've hoped for something a bit more metal, but they seems to be well thought out and the slanted fret concept looks interesting at least.


----------



## Antiproduct

I just wish the lower "strap horn" would look different. The body looks like a redneck modified guitar you found on the last page on craigslist
Edit: I mean aesthetically


----------



## jephjacques

I actually like the look of those headless bois but the slanted frets seems like a REALLY weird idea.


----------



## USMarine75

danbox said:


> Per Nilson of scar symmetry and meshuggah uses multiscale true temperament 8 string iirc
> 
> but yeah it’s interesting to see straight scale guitars everywhere; could just be a generational gap. No use in changing if you have a million hours in straight scale



Good catch! 

I love Per Nilsson.


----------



## USMarine75




----------



## odibrom

jephjacques said:


> I actually like the look of those headless bois but the slanted frets seems like a REALLY weird idea.



As did multiscale and true temperament concepts, but they do work, so...?


----------



## Jeff

I think they look cool, for a headless. Better looking than Kiesel's headless guitars.


----------



## kisielk

I definitely like the look of the bridge more than the fugly blocky hipshot bridges which seem to be the most popular headless.


----------



## SCJR

USMarine75 said:


> I can't think of one guitarist I like that uses slanted, true temperment, or multiscale frets other than Mattias IA EKhlund. I'll take regular (preferably stainless) frets FTW.



Why would a player you like using or not using them affect your decision to play anything with nontraditional frets? They're a practical feature that is supposed to improve practical aspects of playing and the setup of the guitar which would be more to do with what your personal needs were as far as tuning, string gauge, number of strings, etc.


----------



## CanserDYI

I love the new Ichika signature. Super super super cool guitar.


----------



## bostjan

So, if this parallel fret idea works out to have some ergonomic advantages, how long before boutique shops start offering multiscale with a perpendicular fret at position -3 (negative three would be conceptual, where the frets trend toward perpendicular somewhere behind the nut)?

It was something I had discussed with a builder once a long time ago, and the two of us agreed that it would have been more clumsy having it at the nut or behind than having it somewhere between 5 and 7, at least for whatever scale length difference we were discussing at the time.


----------



## SpaceDock

USMarine75 said:


>



This exactly, I only see a Talman. While that is cool for some, I would greatly prefer a more aggressive look like a headless RG or Saber style. What I think would be really great is a much smaller RG body so the bridge is not in a cutout section (like reb beach), then they use a heavy solid body wood to counter the reduced body size weight for balance.


----------



## mbardu

SpaceDock said:


> This exactly, I only see a Talman. While that is cool for some, I would greatly prefer a more aggressive look like a headless RG or Saber style. What I think would be really great is a much smaller RG body so the bridge is not in a cutout section (like reb beach), then they use a heavy solid body wood to counter the reduced body size weight for balance.



Doubt you'd need to worry about balance anytime soon without the headstock and its hardware, but not only would a small body look strange, it would probably _feel_ strange and might be tricky to find a naturally ergonomic playing position.

Not seeing the talman either, except for the color. Actually already has similar lines to an S imo.


----------



## cip 123

SpaceDock said:


> This exactly, I only see a Talman. While that is cool for some, I would greatly prefer a more aggressive look like a headless RG or Saber style. What I think would be really great is a much smaller RG body so the bridge is not in a cutout section (like reb beach), then they use a heavy solid body wood to counter the reduced body size weight for balance.



It already is an S -






It's got a Talman-esque guard but it's a headless S


----------



## odibrom

The Ichita video clearly states it comes from the Saber design...


----------



## mbardu

cip 123 said:


> It already is an S -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's got a Talman-esque guard but it's a headless S



Ha ... exactly


----------



## cip 123

odibrom said:


> The Ichita video clearly states it comes from the Saber design...


Honestly hadn't checked it out, just saw the comment and was like "But it already is an S" lol


----------



## Quiet Coil

I’d have preferred an adaptation of the RGD, but I honestly don’t hate this (the vestigial 3rd strap button has to go though).

I’m really only in the market for a headless multi-scale 7 or 8 at this point - which is part of why I find these frustrating. We’ll see where it goes…


----------



## gunch

I like it but I was just expecting a EHB but guitarified 

Still not sure about those slanted frets


----------



## Thrashman

SS.org cracks me up

guitars with straight frets = Rawr

25"-32" fans on 6/strings = AMAZING

25"-28" 8strings = OHHH MY SPLOOOOOGEEEEEEE

a 7string with straight scale but slightly angled frets for ergonomics = Now THAT is a bad idea


lmfao


----------



## Supernaut

I'd be willing to give Ibanez the benefit of the doubt on this - I'll at least reserve my judgment until I can try it. 

It's likely a lot of R&D $$$ went into that decision (design looks horrible with the pickguard though).


----------



## I play music

Thrashman said:


> SS.org cracks me up
> 
> guitars with straight frets = Rawr
> 
> 25"-32" fans on 6/strings = AMAZING
> 
> 25"-28" 8strings = OHHH MY SPLOOOOOGEEEEEEE
> 
> a 7string with straight scale but slightly angled frets for ergonomics = Now THAT is a bad idea
> 
> 
> lmfao


The real problem is that company owners like Ormsby or Abasi just invent something is ergonomic like the multiscale with extreme angle at the nut or a goofy looking guitar shape and all the dumb guitar demo people just repeat that claim without thinking about it and so often that it looks like a lot of people are just so brainwashed they repeat that nonsense without ever thinking about why that should be more ergonomic and trying it critically.

I was very surprised about the comfort of Ibanez EHB and will try out these angled frets now seeing if they feel good to me. Luckily every guitar store sells Ibanez, so it shouldn't be hard to try one.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> company owners like Ormsby or Abasi just invent something is ergonomic like the multiscale with extreme angle at the nut or a goofy looking guitar shape and all the dumb guitar demo people just repeat that claim without thinking about it and so often that it looks like a lot of people are just so brainwashed they repeat that nonsense without ever thinking about why that should be more ergonomic and trying it critically



That's probably my biggest pet peeve when it comes to the current generation of headless/multi-scale/new-shape guitars. 

You can't just say something is ergonomic because a couple of people find it more comfortable, it devalues the concept as ergonomics isn't necessarily about making things more comfortable, it's about making things safer. 

Even though fanned frets and headless guitar designs have been around for the better part of 50 years, there has never been an in depth enough, peer reviewed scientific study that confirms that either design embellishment makes playing the guitar objectively safer.


----------



## MrWulf

Its funny you said that because the post above is somehow saying angled frets are ergonomics when theres next to no evidence of it is.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MrWulf said:


> Its funny you said that because the post above is somehow saying angled frets are ergonomics when theres next to no evidence of it is.



Yeah, it's just a buzzword that's conflated with "comfort". Working in manufacturing ergonomics somewhat the last 20 years, they're definitely not synonymous in and of themselves.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Kind of easy to see it was S inspired. I preordered an ICHI10. I am supporting this and love this because they are thinking outside the box of design. Anyone complaining about design, think about the actual development. They wouldn't put it out if they didn't think it would sell. 
If you buy one and they do not sell or lift off then you got yourself a niche piece.


----------



## I play music

MrWulf said:


> Its funny you said that because the post above is somehow saying angled frets are ergonomics when theres next to no evidence of it is.


If you mean my post I didn't say angled frets are ergonomic. I'm actually complaining about people claiming they can't be ergonomic because Mr Ormsby and youtubers always say that angled the other way round is ergonomic without any evidence and totally against my personal experience that says Ormsby hurts my hand. Also when something hurts I think that's the point where it's both uncomfortable and unergonomic but I can also see that things may be comfortable but unergonomic. So I understand there's a difference between comfortable and ergonomic.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I play music said:


> If you mean my post I didn't say angled frets are ergonomic. I'm actually complaining about people claiming they can't be ergonomic because Mr Ormsby and youtubers always say that angled the other way round is ergonomic without any evidence and totally against my personal experience that says Ormsby hurts my hand. Also when something hurts I think that's the point where it's both uncomfortable and unergonomic but I can also see that things may be comfortable but unergonomic. So I understand there's a difference between comfortable and ergonomic.



People generally agree that the ormsby fan is a little weird. 

But are you buying one of them slants things or what. I want a review.


----------



## CanserDYI

I play music said:


> If you mean my post I didn't say angled frets are ergonomic. I'm actually complaining about people claiming they can't be ergonomic because Mr Ormsby and youtubers always say that angled the other way round is ergonomic without any evidence and totally against my personal experience that says Ormsby hurts my hand. Also when something hurts I think that's the point where it's both uncomfortable and unergonomic but I can also see that things may be comfortable but unergonomic. So I understand there's a difference between comfortable and ergonomic.


Fans that wide always leave me with the guitar nut in the middle of my left hand when i'm riffing at the low end. 

Man a lot of euphemisms could be pulled from that.


----------



## ixlramp

The string clamp design of the EHB is excellent, having a non-rotating metal dowel clamping upwards from below. I was hoping they would use that design for their headless guitar, disappointing. A rotating grub screw has multiple problems used as a string clamp.


Lorcan Ward said:


> Intonation could be a big problem. They've slanted the frets so they have had to slant the bridge but a bridge is already at a slant when intonated correctly. So you will need a lot more room on that low string to get it intonated to B. It depends how much you can push those saddles back.


That is not a problem, the fret slant has been added to the bridge positioning intonation slant. Would have been an extremely careless design mistake to not do that =)
To see this, open up 2 browser tabs with the Q52 and QX52 and switch between the tabs. The guitars will be aligned on your monitor. Look at the bridge slant change.


MaxOfMetal said:


> Even though fanned frets and headless guitar designs have been around for the better part of 50 years, there has never been an in depth enough, peer reviewed scientific study that confirms that either design embellishment makes playing the guitar objectively safer.


I agree in the case of fanned frets.
But for headless guitars there does not need to be a scientific study, it is obvious that a guitar with improved balance is less stressful for the body in multiple ways.


----------



## A-Branger

I play music said:


> say that angled the other way round is ergonomic without any evidence


it is depending on how you play it.

doing a F barr chord on the 1st fret (the msot extreme angle), your wrist have less break angle than if you do the same chord on a regular fret guitar.

mind you, to acomplish this your elbow needs to be closer to your body (on a multiscale), rather than having your elbow a bit away from your body on a normal guitar. If that position is more comfortable or not, is a differnt debate and it would depends on each person. You could argue that having your elbow clsoer to your body would mean less fatigue in your arm over time, but some poeple might ifnd it restrictive.

also, if your index finder does follows the fret (as it should), then your other fingers positions would be "further appart" from the index finger, so it would feel like a bigger stretch. Yes, you ahve less wrist break angle, but your index finger would need to "reach out" further (in comparison to the middle and ring finger). This if you actually twist your hand to follow the fan of the frets, rather than keep playing it like a regular scale guitar like Ive seen many people do including a video of Ola reviewing an Abasi and complaining that he touches the bottom of the nut (when his hand was still in a perpendicular position to the neck, rather than following the fan)

Ive been playing multiscale for a couple of years and got no pain or ever feel uncomfortable

mind you I only play sitting down




diagrammatiks said:


> View attachment 95034
> 
> View attachment 95035



note how his wrist has less break angle on the regular fret vs the Ibanez angled one. Also notice the position of his elbow and how it has to "come out" of the body to be able to play the Ibanez fan. Now add angled frets the otehr way around (like a normal multiscale) and you would see less break angle at the wrist and elbow closer to your body

thats one of the benefits (or "ergonomics" ) of multiscale. Other being your picking hand angle matches better the bridge angle. But multiscales are about the extra tension and tone. I wouldnt call them "ergonomics", it would help, but its not a "comfortable" thing like a big scoop/bevel/body shape than snugs into your body

same thing that "headless" does NOT equal "ergonomics".... and no, the enduro neck is not ergonomic, IMO is faaaaar from it, but im on the fence that cant stand it, both in guitar and in bass as my thumb alwys lands on the edge of the trapezoid rather than the flat section. Other people mind find it great tho


I do get the point of slanting the frets that way, as your hand seems to point that way naturaly.. Its like your fingers point back at you when you grab the neck. Only problem is that for chords this means a more break in your wrist

this as in sittig down

now take this picture







(this is an exttreme example).... but notice how the frets are "slanted" if your point of reference is him.... MEaning, when you play standing up your guitar neck is on an angle (unless you are extreme jazz boi with guitar on your neck), so the frets are always naturaly "slanted" in relation to lets say the floor, you dont play with your guitar neck horizontal.

so this new ibanez slant seems to mimic such fret angle, but when the guitr is on your leg (when the neck is horizontal)... to be more specific your right leg, as when you play on classical possition your enck goes up on an angle

now thats jsut my pov of this feature. I feel it might work if you play on your right leg, but have no idea how "ergonomic" this would be whiel standing up with your guitar at mid/low height as the angle of the neck (like the photo) plus angle of the frets might give an extreme angle to them.

so I believe that guitar can be comfortable in the right setting, but I dont think it would be comfortable in all settings(like standing up), more like one trick pony


----------



## bigcupholder

bigcupholder said:


> The reason that the fan is supposedly comfortable on multiscale guitars is that it follows the natural angle of your hand up and down the neck. At the low frets your hand is further away from your body than your elbow, so your fingers tend to tilt out more. The opposite is true on higher frets obviously.
> 
> So you'd need to really keep your elbow out to play those low frets comfortably.





diagrammatiks said:


> based on my 100 scientific testing.
> 
> In classical position
> 
> For barring near the nut. Straight frets are definitely the most comfortable
> 
> Regular multi scale second.
> 
> this Ibanez thingy. No workie guys.
> 
> However, for big non-barred open chords and jazz chords it's a little bit better
> 
> Big However -if playing like Ichika, given how small the guitar seems to be. It actually works
> 
> It didn't take a picture that position because I'm uggo and partially nekkid.
> 
> View attachment 95034
> 
> View attachment 95035



This is what I was trying to explain earlier about keeping your elbow out to get that angle on the low frets. Look at the angle of his upper arm. It's almost parallel to the floor. I can't see anyone maintaining that position for a full gig because it would be extremely fatiguing on your shoulder.

The alternative is some combination of this with having the neck more parallel to the floor instead of angled up, and/or pulling the guitar more to the right when playing - basically it looks like it was designed to play sitting on your right leg, not standing and definitely not classical.


----------



## diagrammatiks

This is actually some designers genius 10 year plan.

first release the multi scale rg's with terrible parallel fret placement and super exaggerated string fan at the nut. 

then release this and everyone is like this is so much better.

get raise. 

become president of Ibanez.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ixlramp said:


> That is not a problem, the fret slant has been added to the bridge positioning intonation slant. Would have been an extremely careless design mistake to not do that =)
> To see this, open up 2 browser tabs with the Q52 and QX52 and switch between the tabs. The guitars will be aligned on your monitor. Look at the bridge slant change.



yes that’s what I said in my post. I was pointing out that you need to over slant a bridge on a multiscale otherwise you can run into intonation problems on the lower strings from not having enough saddle room.


----------



## tian

a playthrough with one of the slanted fret models. The blue model looks much better here than in official photos.



and some screengrabs of the other possible configs mocked up by Ibanez. Some of them look rather wide, 8s? Maybe a sign of what's to come?












Ibanez_ii



__ tian
__ Jul 4, 2021


















Ibanez



__ tian
__ Jul 4, 2021


----------



## Supernaut

tian said:


> a playthrough with one of the slanted fret models. The blue model looks much better here than in official photos.
> 
> 
> 
> and some screengrabs of the other possible configs mocked up by Ibanez. Some of them look rather wide, 8s? Maybe a sign of what's to come?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ibanez_ii
> 
> 
> 
> __ tian
> __ Jul 4, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ibanez
> 
> 
> 
> __ tian
> __ Jul 4, 2021




Can that guy play 30 seconds of a song without doing the annoying chuka chuka thing at least seventeen times.


----------



## narad

Supernaut said:


> Can that guy play 30 seconds of a song without doing the annoying chuka chuka thing at least seventeen times.



In 2021 guitar technique is defined as being able to make your guitar sound glitchy without postprocessing.


----------



## adrianb

That Q54 in matte black is quickly becoming my obsession. Damn that looks awesome.


----------



## Demiurge

There gonna be any demos of these things that don't sound like a shitty piezo?


----------



## Randy

Demiurge said:


> There gonna be any demos of these things that don't sound like a shitty piezo?



My expectation for the stock pickups aren't especially high for metal anyway considering the branding, but it would be nice if they threw us a bone. It would be kinda silly to release a totally new line and have it targetted only at dainty harmonic tapping bros.


----------



## USMarine75

Is it weird that he never talks and noodles? 

He plays. Edit. He talks. 

#conspiracy
#ibanezcollusion


----------



## lurè

That demo sound like every instagram bedroom neo-seoul guitarist.


----------



## USMarine75

lurè said:


> That demo sound like every instagram bedroom neo-seoul guitarist.



Neo-Seoul? 

But...

Ichika is Japanese.


----------



## Albake21

tian said:


> a playthrough with one of the slanted fret models. The blue model looks much better here than in official photos.



So is this just the new guitar player's music? Basically super thin tones, tapping, chicka chicka, and trap like drums and bass? In other words, Polyphia? Guess I'm just getting old when I say, I find it all sounds the same. Very unique, talented, and cool, just not my thing.


----------



## josh1

I preordered the Ichika sig. I have never been this excited for a guitar!


----------



## Marv Attaxx

USMarine75 said:


> Is it weird that he never talks and noodles?
> 
> He plays. Edit. He talks.
> 
> #conspiracy
> #ibanezcollusion


He does during live streams 
Talking and playing his stuff almost as clean as the not-live-stream stuff. I've been following him for quite some time on insta (and I also like his band), he likes to do live-sessions sometimes there, too


----------



## nickgray

Albake21 said:


> So is this just the new guitar player's music? Basically super thin tones, tapping, chicka chicka, and trap like drums and bass?



Yeah, it's a bit weird. Kinda like all those weird "special effects" kind of sounds in brostep. But on guitar. On clean (ish) sound. With an obnoxious trap-inspired beat.

I don't understand it either  (I like electronic music too, I just like stuff like Aphex Twin or µ-Ziq, the modern popular stuff is a big wtf to me).


----------



## USMarine75




----------



## Lorcan Ward

Randy said:


> It would be kinda silly to release a totally new line and have it targetted only at dainty harmonic tapping bros.



Well they do specifically claim the ergonomic slanted frets help technical players tap better.......somehow



Albake21 said:


> So is this just the new guitar player's music? Basically super thin tones, tapping, chicka chicka, and trap like drums and bass? In other words, Polyphia? Guess I'm just getting old when I say, I find it all sounds the same. Very unique, talented, and cool, just not my thing.



Yep. Something finally replaced djent! This style seems to be what new guitarists are emulating now on Insta and FB. Not sure who started it, maybe polyphia? but Manuel was one of the first guys to get popular doing the 30 second insta clips of it. People seem to love it but I’m not sure how well it would do without the visual element.


----------



## bigcupholder

Just once I want to see an official video with a nice mid-gain crunch tone and no effects, maybe with some chords strummed normally and some lead licks at a reasonable speed. I think it's called Dad rock.

But seriously, that was a weird demo that didn't even slightly make me want that guitar.


----------



## Antiproduct

bigcupholder said:


> But seriously, that was a weird demo that didn't even slightly make me want that guitar.


Especially if you look at his fingers when he plays a chord around the middle of the fretboard. His index finger often times doesn't follow the slanted fret at all


----------



## Dayn

Lorcan Ward said:


> Well they do specifically claim the ergonomic slanted frets help technical players tap better.......somehow


Now that's the only thing I can believe. Multi-finger tapping would be easier on one fret as the slant on the higher frets would naturally follow the layout of my fingers, meaning less awkward stretching.

Maybe we've all been small brain this entire time. Ibanez have been playing the long con. Now I'm somewhat intrigued.

Edit: I had a look. My mistake. The frets are slanted in the _opposite_ way than what I thought. So not only is it awkward for me in classical position, multi-finger tapping would be made worse too.

I'm just going to get that stealth black Xiphos. The edginess of the X series is cancelled out by the edginess of the stealth black, making it super cool.


----------



## I play music

Albake21 said:


> So is this just the new guitar player's music? Basically super thin tones, tapping, chicka chicka, and trap like drums and bass? In other words, Polyphia? Guess I'm just getting old when I say, I find it all sounds the same. Very unique, talented, and cool, just not my thing.


Ibanez needs to give that Decapitated guy one. Oh the puns. And he is an Ibanez artist I think.


----------



## Demiurge

bigcupholder said:


> Just once I want to see an official video with a nice mid-gain crunch tone and no effects, maybe with some chords strummed normally and some lead licks at a reasonable speed. I think it's called Dad rock.



I mean... you can drown a guitar in gain or you can squash/EQ it to oblivion to mitigate crummy pickups (and look at the 3 demos so far), but you can't fudge those dad rock tones. It might not matter to those playing chicken-pickin' space metal or whatever, but there's no loss in displaying some versatility.


----------



## jwade

Supernaut said:


> Can that guy play 30 seconds of a song without doing the annoying chuka chuka thing at least seventeen times.


I fully don’t get the appeal of this kind of thing. There are so many guys doing the exact same sounding thing, and past the first 15-20 seconds it’s like…is there going to be a song, or is it just like endless glitchy overpracticed technique? Doesn’t seem fun to play at all.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

jwade said:


> I fully don’t get the appeal of this kind of thing. There are so many guys doing the exact same sounding thing, and past the first 15-20 seconds it’s like…is there going to be a song, or is it just like endless glitchy overpracticed technique? Doesn’t seem fun to play at all.



I agree, I feel like my dad when I say ‘it’s not a proper song’ about modern music. But I feel like all these minute long click-clack-chime-tap-slide-slap videos are even closer to a guitar shop ‘can I help you?’ riff than trying badly at a Steve Vai solo... just without any gain dialled in.


----------



## LordHar

Ibanez_ii



__ tian
__ Jul 4, 2021


















Ibanez



__ tian
__ Jul 4, 2021






Do they let the colorblind guy make the final choices for the initial lineup or what?


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> In 2021 guitar technique is defined as being able to make your guitar sound glitchy without postprocessing.


I'm not gonna hate on the finished product because I think it's fine, but this kind of guitar playing basically always sounds terrible without all the synths backing up every accent and making ambience. At least this one isn't using that god awful scratchy Polyphia tone.


----------



## narad

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I agree, I feel like my dad when I say ‘it’s not a proper song’ about modern music. But I feel like all these minute long click-clack-chime-tap-slide-slap videos are even closer to a guitar shop ‘can I help you?’ riff than trying badly at a Steve Vai solo... just without any gain dialled in.



Yea, it's only a natural progression when you're trying to get an interesting sound into an instagram story-sized bite, rather than write a full composition. Ichika's got a full song going on but it's unfortunately an obvious variation on the Link to the Past "Fairy Fountain" song.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MAB is sitting in a corner being like they all laughed at me. now they all want to be me.


----------



## TheBlackBard

Just saying, I'll take ten years of chuka chuka, tap, smack, whatever the fuck over the last ten years we've had of "modern metal". The era of no balls tone, gnat's ass tight, and duck farts has been every bit as boring as people are proclaiming this style to be.


----------



## Jonathan20022

narad said:


> Yea, it's only a natural progression when you're trying to get an interesting sound into an instagram story-sized bite, rather than write a full composition. Ichika's got a full song going on but it's unfortunately an obvious variation on the Link to the Past "Fairy Fountain" song.



I'm not making the connection to Fairy Fountain at all, if we're talking about his Signature Guitar video "Awakening".

I also disagree that social media/attention grabby content is bleeding into full on compositions overall. Maybe so in the "Neo-Soul" genre of guitar playing social media content, but that phenomenon isn't really prevalent anywhere else.

It still blows my mind that there's some Neo Soul players going incredibly viral playing very similar concepts back to back and even heavily recycling content. I had to unfollow a dude on instagram because I swear I saw him for the 4th time playing the exact same riff in the span of a week and just got annoyed. There's still some fantastic players who output content even if it's not a daily flood of generic riffs that I always look forward to. If I get spammed with content and it just feels uninspired, I unfollow.


----------



## michael_bolton

I wasn't sure what the "chuka chuka" mentioned in this thread meant - thought it was a new iteration of the good old "chugga chugga" deal. played that youtube vid in question - lol wtf.


----------



## Matt08642

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, it's just a buzzword that's conflated with "comfort". Working in manufacturing ergonomics somewhat the last 20 years, they're definitely not synonymous in and of themselves.



Now that things like "BIG HUUUUGE CHORDS" and scatter wound pickups are no longer moving as much gear, we have to act like resting the guitar in cLaSsIcAL position is some mythical feat that can only be achieved if it's shaped like some space age bullshit guitar for Instagram single coil Polyphia songs. I guess the rise of classical position for young guitarists is shaped by wanting to fit the guitar in frame for Instagram, kind of like albums being a certain length due to physical media size.

Try as I might I just can't get in to it, it's very reminiscent of trying to get in to Yngwie when I was 14 after everyone told me how good he was.



Jonathan20022 said:


> It still blows my mind that there's some Neo Soul players going incredibly viral playing very similar concepts back to back and even heavily recycling content. I had to unfollow a dude on instagram because I swear I saw him for the 4th time playing the exact same riff in the span of a week and just got annoyed. There's still some fantastic players who output content even if it's not a daily flood of generic riffs that I always look forward to. If I get spammed with content and it just feels uninspired, I unfollow.



The result of every little thing being monetized and gamified. If they don't post every single day, fewer impressions, less ad money, less exposure on the Discover page, etc etc.


----------



## xzacx

TheBlackBard said:


> Just saying, I'll take ten years of chuka chuka, tap, smack, whatever the fuck over the last ten years we've had of "modern metal". The era of no balls tone, gnat's ass tight, and duck farts has been every bit as boring as people are proclaiming this style to be.



I wouldn’t say I like this stuff, but it’s far more tolerable than the djent demos I’ve seen so much of for years that I can’t figure out whether are just so complex that I don’t get them, or so bad theyre indecipherable from beginners screwing around at Guitar Center on a Saturday afternoon. Either way it seems like a step in the right direction to me.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

TheBlackBard said:


> Just saying, I'll take ten years of chuka chuka, tap, smack, whatever the fuck over the last ten years we've had of "modern metal". The era of no balls tone, gnat's ass tight, and duck farts has been every bit as boring as people are proclaiming this style to be.



Before djent it was all about sweep picking. That lasted about 6-8 years before djent was the cool thing. I can’t say I miss the constant “how do sweep pick” messages but it was replaced with “how do you get that tone/snare” when djent took over. With this new IG style at least there’s much more emphasis on actual playing again but it still relies on the DAW knowledge to surgically edit everything to the grid that Djent brought in.


----------



## dirtool

lol, fake multi scale?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Lorcan Ward said:


> Before djent it was all about sweep picking. That lasted about 6-8 years before djent was the cool thing. I can’t say I miss the constant “how do sweep pick” messages but it was replaced with “how do you get that tone/snare” when djent took over. With this new IG style at least there’s much more emphasis on actual playing again but it still relies on the DAW knowledge to surgically edit everything to the grid that Djent brought in.



ya you actually have to be pretty good to play this stuff and nobody wants that. which is why the techniques forum isn't flooded with theory questions right now


----------



## mlp187

LOL, we are all getting old.


----------



## odibrom

dirtool said:


> lol, fake multi scale?



Not a multiscale... not fake, it's a different take on aligning the frets...


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Lorcan Ward said:


> With this new IG style at least there’s much more emphasis on actual playing again.



Well I'd go so far as to say there's emphasis on _technique_.

When you use the term "playing" it gives the impression that there's a tune in there somewhere instead of a bunch of clicky/chimey sounds that are technically difficult to generate and string together for 70 seconds


----------



## USMarine75

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Well I'd go so far as to say there's emphasis on _technique_.
> 
> When you use the term "playing" it gives the impression that there's a tune in there somewhere instead of a bunch of clicky/chimey sounds that are technically difficult to generate and string together for 70 seconds



Nah, if there was a tune in there they would call it Dad Rock.


----------



## Supernaut

Technique encompasses so many things on guitar - from correct vibrato to sweep picking to this chuka chuka thing. None is more valid than any other, it's all completely subjective.

I think the chuka chuka thing is cool, but this guy literally does it every five seconds. It's like if EVH did the eruption tapping lick every five seconds in a Van Halen song. That's just my own opinion though, if people dig it all the more power to them.


----------



## odibrom

... in the end, _there is not technique, there is only expression_...

It's like the eggs on the cake, one may not like eggs on themselves, but enjoy the cake... I dig this trend, it enriches the guitar vocabulary and proves that the electric guitar is not a dying instrument and that it's here to stay. Which also means that it is evolving, either in musicianship expression as well as in its form and appearance.


----------



## MikeH

Never on here anymore, but came back to say this:

Ew.


----------



## Kellz

Pre-ordered the Q54-BKF

I'm eyeing a headless since a couple of months now, last 6 string I owned is over 15 years ago when I was a kid. Strandberg is out of my budget or more like I just don't want to pay so much money on a guitar coming from indonesia and all the bad QC talk in here. 

This seems to be a lot of guitar you are getting for the money + a gigbag. Living in germany we have a 30 day money back guarantee so I'll definitely check this one out and see if I like it. 

I went for the Q54 and not the Ichi10 signature since I want that extra humbucker on the bridge for potential humbucker swap in the future. I do like the pickguard and do not want to mess with the slented frets. I usually don't like satin black finishes cause they seem to get shiny after a while where your hand sits but I prefer the black over the green matte. From my playing style I don't even think that it will get shiny tbh.

I'm definitely hyped for this guitar, delivery date is as soon as first half of september. We will see if that date holds. Definitely posting a NGD once I have it. 

I usually think that beeing a fan of a company is always a bad idea for obvious reasons but beeing an ibanez fanboy I had to pre-order this one


----------



## Boojakki

Kellz said:


> Pre-ordered the Q54-BKF



Me too! High five!


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Lorcan Ward said:


> Before djent it was all about sweep picking. That lasted about 6-8 years before djent was the cool thing. I can’t say I miss the constant “how do sweep pick” messages but it was replaced with “how do you get that tone/snare” when djent took over. With this new IG style at least there’s much more emphasis on actual playing again but it still relies on the DAW knowledge to surgically edit everything to the grid that Djent brought in.


The Djent Grid - where all the SumerianCore bands unite under one chugga chugga and squeadley meadley


----------



## profwoot

odibrom said:


> ... in the end, _there is not technique, there is only expression_...
> 
> It's like the eggs on the cake, one may not like eggs on themselves, but enjoy the cake... I dig this trend, it enriches the guitar vocabulary and proves that the electric guitar is not a dying instrument and that it's here to stay. Which also means that it is evolving, either in musicianship expression as well as in its form and appearance.



QFT. Anything not evolving is going extinct.
(no idea about the eggs thing)

Personally, I play strapped/classical so the slanted frets are probably not for me, but it seems worth checking out for all you right thigh folk.


----------



## littlebadboy

mbardu said:


> The funniest part of that post is that I bet if you measure past the nut, the guitar's headpiece is hardly any longer than the one on the bass. Whoops!


I can't find one. May I ask where did you get it?


----------



## Hollowway

I just listened to that demo video. Am I the only one that thinks that would sound good with gain? He’s a tight player - let’s get some dirt on that tone, I say.


----------



## Vyn

For all those complaining about the Xiphos 7 only being 25.5" - it's a fuck-up on the Ibanez site, they are at least 26.5" if not 27" (I'm pretty sure they are 27" because they feel longer than my 26.5" guitars). I just got back from playing one at my local. Ibanez have knocked these out of the park.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Hollowway said:


> I just listened to that demo video. Am I the only one that thinks that would sound good with gain? He’s a tight player - let’s get some dirt on that tone, I say.


Still undecided about his skills. Can he play "Wonderwall"?

Music wise I like the Ibanez demo of their ICTB721 better.


----------



## cardinal

I thought the chicken pickin' space metal demo was pretty neat. Wish I could play like that. But then, I'd have to like... practice and stuff.


----------



## Jarmake

cardinal said:


> I thought the chicken pickin' space metal demo was pretty neat. Wish I could play like that. But then, I'd have to like... practice and stuff.



Ewww, practice! Who in their right mind would want to do that?


----------



## Perge

Vyn said:


> For all those complaining about the Xiphos 7 only being 25.5" - it's a fuck-up on the Ibanez site, they are at least 26.5" if not 27" (I'm pretty sure they are 27" because they feel longer than my 26.5" guitars). I just got back from playing one at my local. Ibanez have knocked these out of the park.


Man, can someone do one of those shite Photoshop jobs comparing the scale length between the 2 xiphos models? Not that I don't believe you, but I know x shaped guitars can feel different with the way they force you into classical position. But if Ibanez just dropped the ball on getting scale length info out, the 7 string xiphos just moved up the list quite a bit.


----------



## nightlight

TheBlackBard said:


> Just saying, I'll take ten years of chuka chuka, tap, smack, whatever the fuck over the last ten years we've had of "modern metal". The era of no balls tone, gnat's ass tight, and duck farts has been every bit as boring as people are proclaiming this style to be.



But they're both boring. I could listen to that song he played... once. 

It's like metal went pop music. Just watch on Instagram once, like, and then move on to the next plastic idol. 

It's a good thing bands like Metallica and Slipknot are still around, otherwise the disclaimers that "metal is dead" would have come true by now. 

I mean, can you even call that metal? I wouldn't.


----------



## USMarine75

nightlight said:


> But they're both boring. I could listen to that song he played... once.
> 
> It's like metal went pop music. Just watch on Instagram once, like, and then move on to the next plastic idol.
> 
> It's a good thing bands like Metallica and Slipknot are still around, otherwise the disclaimers that "metal is dead" would have come true by now.
> 
> I mean, can you even call that metal? I wouldn't.



Music evolves. Sometimes good; sometimes bad. If you don't like it listen to something else. There is no shortage of music.

I actually quite like what Ichika, Polyphia, Manuel Gardner Fernandes, etc are doing. And I even like the obviously sped up but supposedly not Charlie Robbins stuff. It is what it is. I'm not listening to it at the gym, or in the car, or singing along with my kids. But it has its place and there is value.

I guess I just don't understand the vitriol from supposed guitarists directed at other actual guitarists. I can't stand Jared Dines but the dude can play. Fluff and Arnold arent the best guitarists but they can hold down a rhythm section for sure. My dislike for any of them would only be for their YouTube content (shameless shilling, no transparency, etc), but not for their playing.

This is no different than how people used to crap on Satriani for only being able to play boring instrumentals. Because if he was good he would be in a real band and have vocals?

YMMV


----------



## Jonathan20022

nightlight said:


> But they're both boring. I could listen to that song he played... once.
> 
> It's like metal went pop music. Just watch on Instagram once, like, and then move on to the next plastic idol.
> 
> It's a good thing bands like Metallica and Slipknot are still around, otherwise the disclaimers that "metal is dead" would have come true by now.
> 
> I mean, can you even call that metal? I wouldn't.



But.. he's not playing anything remotely considered "metal", so of course when your reference point is Thrash/Nu Metal it's going to sound drastically different. It's not to my taste either, so I wouldn't listen to Manuel all day, but it's far from boring and the dude is immensely talented.

How much effort do you put into band discovery, I'm going to assume very little like I generally do with anyone who seems to think an entire genre of music is "dead".


----------



## Lorcan Ward

nightlight said:


> But they're both boring. I could listen to that song he played... once.
> 
> It's like metal went pop music. Just watch on Instagram once, like, and then move on to the next plastic idol.
> 
> It's a good thing bands like Metallica and Slipknot are still around, otherwise the disclaimers that "metal is dead" would have come true by now.
> 
> I mean, can you even call that metal? I wouldn't.



Instagram is to blame for most of your criticisms. This is a kind of style that’s the most mass appealing so it’s why these guys get so much reach and praise. 

I wouldn’t call it metal since it borrows heavily from other genres. It’s constructed more like rap or dance music. The funny thing is I saw this guy live 2 years ago playing a hybrid of death and metalcore with just a handful of these Instagram clean guitar parts. Dude is one of the best players I’ve ever seen and would be a shrapnel virtuoso tomorrow if he felt like uploading one of his shreddy compositions.


----------



## Marko

When will these hit the street? August?


----------



## TheBlackBard

nightlight said:


> But they're both boring. I could listen to that song he played... once.
> 
> It's like metal went pop music. Just watch on Instagram once, like, and then move on to the next plastic idol.
> 
> It's a good thing bands like Metallica and Slipknot are still around, otherwise the disclaimers that "metal is dead" would have come true by now.
> 
> I mean, can you even call that metal? I wouldn't.



I mean, me myself, metal isn't the only thing in my arsenal. I tend to look at everything as music and music is what I listen to. I do tend to gravitate towards the guitar more in music, which is where my complaint comes from. I can't stand this trend of overly tight guitar/production, at least this offers something a bit different from that. Would I devote as much of my time into it as other music, no, but I could easily see myself listening to this while reading or doing chores. Also, even if Metallica and Slipknot weren't around, metal isn't dead. There are plenty of bands to be had, and the Internet is a very useful resource for finding those bands. Just because they're not as big as Iron Maiden, Metallica, or any other iconic band doesn't mean the genre is dead.


----------



## tian

Marko said:


> When will these hit the street? August?


Sweetwater told me late September to early October but nothing really firm yet.


----------



## Vyn

Perge said:


> Man, can someone do one of those shite Photoshop jobs comparing the scale length between the 2 xiphos models? Not that I don't believe you, but I know x shaped guitars can feel different with the way they force you into classical position. But if Ibanez just dropped the ball on getting scale length info out, the 7 string xiphos just moved up the list quite a bit.



I play in classical position myself (mainly play X and V shaped guitars). We eye-balled the necks up against some 25.5" scale 7's that were in the shop and the fret spacing is definitely wider on the Xiphos.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Hollowway said:


> I just listened to that demo video. Am I the only one that thinks that would sound good with gain? He’s a tight player - let’s get some dirt on that tone, I say.



It actually started dirty, he just dialed back the gain over the years 
Dude is a propper metal player who's been rocking 8 strings for a decade (also doing clean vocals and screams for his band), he's just exploring new sounds and the glitchy stuff has become kinda his trademark 
I dig his new stuff (the song with Tim Henson was madness) and greatly admire his talent, but I prefer the old unprocessed stuff and hope the next album will have heavier songs again, too.


----------



## USMarine75

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRHJBxsKleb/?utm_medium=copy_link

This tune is legit. It actually has... gasp... melody.


----------



## gunch

Just go smash a bunch of glass with a hammer and you'd be 90% there to be a Insta neo soul guitarist


----------



## Albake21

USMarine75 said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/CRHJBxsKleb/?utm_medium=copy_link
> 
> This tune is legit. It actually has... gasp... melody.


For me, it's not even the playing or writing style that I dislike. It's the terrible trap beats and weird sound fx just thrown in. Also really not a fan of the guitar tones at all. I don't care to hear the same damn tinny tone, it does nothing for me. While the playing is really cool and all, after you see it once, it's nothing more than an attraction. In other words, this is just the creation of the tik tok/instagram era we're in. And man, do I hate it so much lol. The only good thing to come of this is that it seems like guitar is far from dead with more and more of the younger crowd picking it up again.

Literally just change the trap beats to drums, add a sliver of gain, and I'm sold on that clip you posted.


----------



## USMarine75

Albake21 said:


> For me, it's not even the playing or writing style that I dislike. It's the terrible trap beats and weird sound fx just thrown in. Also really not a fan of the guitar tones at all. I don't care to hear the same damn tinny tone, it does nothing for me. While the playing is really cool and all, after you see it once, it's nothing more than an attraction. In other words, this is just the creation of the tik tok/instagram era we're in. And man, do I hate it so much lol. The only good thing to come of this is that it seems like guitar is far from dead with more and more of the younger crowd picking it up again.



It's okay. We still have John Mayer.


----------



## profwoot

Marv Attaxx said:


> It actually started dirty, he just dialed back the gain over the years
> Dude is a propper metal player who's been rocking 8 strings for a decade (also doing clean vocals and screams for his band), he's just exploring new sounds and the glitchy stuff has become kinda his trademark
> I dig his new stuff (the song with Tim Henson was madness) and greatly admire his talent, but I prefer the old unprocessed stuff and hope the next album will have heavier songs again, too.




Same trajectory as Polyphia. Their first album was straight djent. It's something that happens with a lot of artists, where you first see if you can replicate your influences before trying to find your own voice. I respect the process, and in the case of Polyphia actually love their last couple albums & EP. It seems like they're going to lean harder into the Insta+trap vibe, which isn't my favorite, but that's the risk when you just make music you love instead of whatever your fanbase expects.


----------



## narad

profwoot said:


> Same trajectory as Polyphia. Their first album was straight djent. It's something that happens with a lot of artists, where you first see if you can replicate your influences before trying to find your own voice.



I always thought of it like "you djent until you can play your instruments, then you write music"


----------



## nightlight

Jonathan20022 said:


> But.. he's not playing anything remotely considered "metal", so of course when your reference point is Thrash/Nu Metal it's going to sound drastically different. It's not to my taste either, so I wouldn't listen to Manuel all day, but it's far from boring and the dude is immensely talented.
> 
> How much effort do you put into band discovery, I'm going to assume very little like I generally do with anyone who seems to think an entire genre of music is "dead".



Just from an audience size perspective, it's the bands like Metallica and Slipknot that really keep it alive by drawing massive crowds to their gigs. We've already seen record labels pressuring a lot of bands to do ballads or softer songs in the past, and many bands have gone that route if you've noticed. It's the bands like Metallica and Slayer and Slipknot that were big enough to avoid the pressure to go commercial and keep things metal.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

nightlight said:


> It's the bands like Metallica and Slayer and Slipknot that were big enough to avoid the pressure to go commercial and keep things metal.


----------



## nightlight

TheBlackBard said:


> I mean, me myself, metal isn't the only thing in my arsenal. I tend to look at everything as music and music is what I listen to. I do tend to gravitate towards the guitar more in music, which is where my complaint comes from. I can't stand this trend of overly tight guitar/production, at least this offers something a bit different from that. Would I devote as much of my time into it as other music, no, but I could easily see myself listening to this while reading or doing chores. Also, even if Metallica and Slipknot weren't around, metal isn't dead. There are plenty of bands to be had, and the Internet is a very useful resource for finding those bands. Just because they're not as big as Iron Maiden, Metallica, or any other iconic band doesn't mean the genre is dead.



Alas, in popular culture, it's very much frowned upon. Everyone wants to be with the cool crowd, listening to Lady Gaga and One Direction. In trying to capture that segment of the market, I see bands changing their music to be more commercially successful. And that's what gave birth to the chukka chukka genre. Which is fine, if it grabs eyeballs and puts money in the bank. But I don't think it's metal at all. I'm also extremelysceptical.of the listening value, but then again, I like people screaming out songs.


----------



## nightlight

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 95427



Well said. I thought Moth into the Flame wasn't bad. Slipknkt's latest album was pretty sick too, check out Solway Firth and Nero Forte.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Lorcan Ward said:


> Instagram is to blame for most of your criticisms. This is a kind of style that’s the most mass appealing so it’s why these guys get so much reach and praise.



In other words, it’s kinda like the McDonalds happy meal of guitar


----------



## Perge

nightlight said:


> Just from an audience size perspective, it's the bands like Metallica and Slipknot that really keep it alive by drawing massive crowds to their gigs. We've already seen record labels pressuring a lot of bands to do ballads or softer songs in the past, and many bands have gone that route if you've noticed. It's the bands like Metallica and Slayer and Slipknot that were big enough to avoid the pressure to go commercial and keep things metal.


I feel like you're conflating 2 totally different things. If anything, their large crowds were due to their changing of styles/becoming more commercial. Metallica doesn't become the de facto name in metal without the black album, which Bob Rock shaped that album to be as commercially successful as possible. I'll never forget hearing Kirk playing a super sped up thrash version of enter sandman on one of the vh1 documentaries on the black album. Would love to hear what those songs would have become under different circumstances. Slipknot fades away without Corey's softer stuff to pull the crowd. As much as I love Iowa, vol 3 is where they truly became a powerhouse, getting heavy airplay with Vermillion Pt 2 and duality, songs that pale compared to their previous efforts As far as being "heavy". 

In short, at least with those 2, their staying power is BECAUSE they had "commercial appeal".


----------



## SCJR

I was playing my friend's Boden 6 and it seems like if you want to get a decent approximation to what the Ibanez slant will be like you can very roughly compare it to the Strandberg's fan from about the second or third fret down to wherever the angle surpasses the Ibanez, somewhere around the middle of the fretboard or closer to the 12th fret.

Not a 1:1 but any guitar with a neutral zero fret could at least give you an idea. It was the first time I've ever paid attention to it but it didn't seem to help with chording at the lower frets, bar chords or otherwise. If anything that slant going all the way down helped with the notey playing higher up on the fretboard.


----------



## Siggevaio

Jeez, not a lot of talk about the new guitars here...



I think this one looks great.


----------



## nightlight

Perge said:


> I feel like you're conflating 2 totally different things. If anything, their large crowds were due to their changing of styles/becoming more commercial. Metallica doesn't become the de facto name in metal without the black album, which Bob Rock shaped that album to be as commercially successful as possible. I'll never forget hearing Kirk playing a super sped up thrash version of enter sandman on one of the vh1 documentaries on the black album. Would love to hear what those songs would have become under different circumstances. Slipknot fades away without Corey's softer stuff to pull the crowd. As much as I love Iowa, vol 3 is where they truly became a powerhouse, getting heavy airplay with Vermillion Pt 2 and duality, songs that pale compared to their previous efforts As far as being "heavy".
> 
> In short, at least with those 2, their staying power is BECAUSE they had "commercial appeal".




Maybe those were the wrong bands. Think Slayer or Megadeth or Maiden or Judas Priest, maybe. They are huge bands and attract crowds. 

Heck, Slipknot and Metallica still play a lot of their old catalogue. And people know and sing those songs. 

So rather than just creating a new fanbase, they grew their old one. 

I think we should think of it in terms of making the music accessible for people who otherwise "wouldn't get it". It isn't really going commercial because they still play those songs. 

And I don't think they pander to the crowds either. That's just the music they're making as they grow older.


----------



## nightlight

Siggevaio said:


> Jeez, not a lot of talk about the new guitars here...
> 
> 
> 
> I think this one looks great.




I still don't understand the fan hyok hyok


----------



## SCJR

Siggevaio said:


> Jeez, not a lot of talk about the new guitars here...
> 
> 
> 
> I think this one looks great.




Go back about 15 pages and start there it's all about the guitars


----------



## Antiproduct

ngl but the design is growing on me


----------



## Perge

Siggevaio said:


> Jeez, not a lot of talk about the new guitars here...
> 
> 
> 
> I think this one looks great.



Is anyone going to play this thing in a classical position, or with a strap on (phrasing)? Am I crazy? Is everyone just playing on their legs these days? Were people so upset about the double strap everyone went strapless? I feel like the slant is only useful if you play in that weird youtuber/instagram position. 

Can't wait to try one in the wild to actually judge it, because the flat black one is growing on me. I'll be keeping an eye out for a flat black 7 that doesn't have the weird slant, because the design is growing on me, and I do want an headless longterm.4


----------



## Siggevaio

SCJR said:


> Go back about 15 pages and start there it's all about the guitars


I shouldn't have to do that.


----------



## SCJR

Guess we can only hope that when the guitars are in some members' hands and there is more to go off of than Ibanez demos and early paid reviews, people will find more to talk about?


----------



## AltecGreen

S


SCJR said:


> Guess we can only hope that when the guitars are in some members' hands and there is more to go off of than Ibanez demos and early paid reviews, people will find more to talk about?




If you are in Tokyo, the Ikebe Shibuya store set up a Ibanez pop up store and have all of the new headless guitars there for people to try.


----------



## Hollowway

Perge said:


> Is anyone going to play this thing in a classical position, or with a strap on (phrasing)?



I always play with a strap-on. They banned it from my all-ages shows, though.


----------



## BigViolin

AltecGreen said:


> S
> 
> 
> 
> If you are in Tokyo, the Ikebe Shibuya store set up a Ibanez pop up store and have all of the new headless guitars there for people to try.



Gimme a minute to process "Ibanez pop up store".


----------



## odibrom

AltecGreen said:


> S
> If you are in Tokyo, the Ikebe Shibuya store set up a Ibanez pop up store and have all of the new headless guitars there for people to try.



... PICS PLEASE...


----------



## Ataraxia2320

nightlight said:


> Maybe those were the wrong bands. Think Slayer or Megadeth or Maiden or Judas Priest, maybe. They are huge bands and attract crowds.



These bands all had commercial albums. Slayer probably to the least extent, but Diablos was definitely wrote to cash in on overlap with the nu metal crew with songs like stain of mind.


----------



## USMarine75

None of what was suggested constitutes why there are no more big bands like Metallica.

The reason there are no more big rock and metal bands is because rock and metal have taken a backseat to many other genres. Rock bands used to be_ popular music _- Foreigner, Journey, GnR, AC/DC, Scorpions, etc.

As music has gotten heavier and more complex it has become less popular. Finn McKinty (PunkRockMBA) does a good job explaining this. But basically a lot of modern metal has become music for guitarists. The average music fan does not want to listen to odd syncopations, endless blast beats, tunes without melody or obvious rhythmic structure, etc.

And whenever bands have crossover appeal there is often an attempt by the gatekeepers to shout down those bands and their fans (e.g. Sleeping with Sirens, Asking Alexandria, Black Veil Brides, etc).

All that said, there are still "big bands". But they have been around long enough to amass a fanbase through the years (e.g. Parkway Drive, In Flames, and Gojira can draw large crowds, but have been around for 20 years).

Lastly, the musical landscape has changed. The era of a few bands dominating the scene are gone. Now it's watered down, so it has become hard to stand out amongst the background noise.



Hollowway said:


> I always play with a strap-on. They banned it from my all-ages shows, though.



My only problem is the crossover interference with my wireless. Otherwise it's hidden. Tee hee.


----------



## profwoot

USMarine75 said:


> None of what was suggested constitutes why there are no more big bands like Metallica.
> 
> The reason there are no more big rock and metal bands is because rock and metal have taken a backseat to many other genres. Rock bands used to be_ popular music _- Foreigner, Journey, GnR, AC/DC, Scorpions, etc.
> 
> As music has gotten heavier and more complex it has become less popular. Finn McKinty (PunkRockMBA) does a good job explaining this. But basically a lot of modern metal has become music for guitarists. The average music fan does not want to listen to odd syncopations, endless blast beats, tunes without melody or obvious rhythmic structure, etc.
> 
> And whenever bands have crossover appeal there is often an attempt by the gatekeepers to shout down those bands and their fans (e.g. Sleeping with Sirens, Asking Alexandria, Black Veil Brides, etc).
> 
> All that said, there are still "big bands". But they have been around long enough to amass a fanbase through the years (e.g. Parkway Drive, In Flames, and Gojira can draw large crowds, but have been around for 20 years).
> 
> Lastly, the musical landscape has changed. The era of a few bands dominating the scene are gone. Now it's watered down, so it has become hard to stand out amongst the background noise.
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem is the crossover interference with my wireless. Otherwise it's hidden. Tee hee.



Spot on. Finn McKenty gets on my nerves sometimes but his thoughts on how trends work and the problems in metal are spot on. Any metal band that gets any popularity is immediately ostracized and accused of being not metal or being sell outs or whatever. 

This makes sense, since as metal has diminished in popularity, its fans must embrace a non-mainstream status. Given that music is the art form most closely associated with identity, fans of less popular genres have often come to think of themselves more holistically as belonging to a specific group of like-minded people, complete with all the in-group/out-group signaling and strong social pressure for conformity inherent to any such group, which is pretty much always toxic.


----------



## AltecGreen

odibrom said:


> ... PICS PLEASE...


https://twitter.com/ikeshibu_tokyo/status/1413876233889222660?s=20


----------



## odibrom

AltecGreen said:


> https://twitter.com/ikeshibu_tokyo/status/1413876233889222660?s=20



Thank you!...

SHIIIIT, these are gorgeous, a bit too much on the Gaudy side, but who cares, right?






Neck-trough J-Custom Sabers...  

I want one of those in 7 strings with double humbucker config... given to me since I can't afford any (@ 7.5k euros +-)... and since we're at it, with a Double Edge LoPro...


----------



## diagrammatiks

odibrom said:


> Thank you!...
> 
> SHIIIIT, these are gorgeous, a bit too much on the Gaudy side, but who cares, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neck-trough J-Custom Sabers...
> 
> I want one of those in 7 strings with double humbucker config... given to me since I can't afford any (@ 7.5k euros +-)... and since we're at it, with a Double Edge LoPro...



so they can totally make neck through s's without pickup rings...like if they wanted too


----------



## odibrom

diagrammatiks said:


> so they can totally make neck through s's without pickup rings...like if they wanted too



They can do anything they want to with the designs they brand... it's just a matter of will and money...


----------



## jco5055

I'm still a little disappointed they never did that semi-custom shop idea


----------



## AltecGreen

I didn't post this last week. As part of the Ibanez 'pop-up' thing at the Ikebe in Shibuya, they had Ichika come out to talk about his new signature. Here's the video although it is all in Japanese. This is a very long video.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

USMarine75 said:


> None of what was suggested constitutes why there are no more big bands like Metallica.
> 
> The reason there are no more big rock and metal bands is because rock and metal have taken a backseat to many other genres. Rock bands used to be_ popular music _- Foreigner, Journey, GnR, AC/DC, Scorpions, etc.
> 
> As music has gotten heavier and more complex it has become less popular. Finn McKinty (PunkRockMBA) does a good job explaining this. But basically a lot of modern metal has become music for guitarists. The average music fan does not want to listen to odd syncopations, endless blast beats, tunes without melody or obvious rhythmic structure, etc.
> 
> And whenever bands have crossover appeal there is often an attempt by the gatekeepers to shout down those bands and their fans (e.g. Sleeping with Sirens, Asking Alexandria, Black Veil Brides, etc).
> 
> All that said, there are still "big bands". But they have been around long enough to amass a fanbase through the years (e.g. Parkway Drive, In Flames, and Gojira can draw large crowds, but have been around for 20 years).
> 
> Lastly, the musical landscape has changed. The era of a few bands dominating the scene are gone. Now it's watered down, so it has become hard to stand out amongst the background noise.
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem is the crossover interference with my wireless. Otherwise it's hidden. Tee hee.



If I could like this a thousand times over, I would.


----------



## mbardu

AltecGreen said:


> I didn't post this last week. As part of the Ibanez 'pop-up' thing at the Ikebe in Shibuya, they had Ichika come out to talk about his new signature. Here's the video although it is all in Japanese. This is a very long video.




Those are always really informative with closed captioning and auto-translate on. Thank you for posting.










It's a lot of money, but I particularly like the part where he explains how his mother talks the talk of his favorite western music sand painting band "Candidate Hard" thank you. Thank you.


----------



## nightlight

USMarine75 said:


> None of what was suggested constitutes why there are no more big bands like Metallica.
> 
> The reason there are no more big rock and metal bands is because rock and metal have taken a backseat to many other genres. Rock bands used to be_ popular music _- Foreigner, Journey, GnR, AC/DC, Scorpions, etc.
> 
> As music has gotten heavier and more complex it has become less popular. Finn McKinty (PunkRockMBA) does a good job explaining this. But basically a lot of modern metal has become music for guitarists. The average music fan does not want to listen to odd syncopations, endless blast beats, tunes without melody or obvious rhythmic structure, etc.
> 
> And whenever bands have crossover appeal there is often an attempt by the gatekeepers to shout down those bands and their fans (e.g. Sleeping with Sirens, Asking Alexandria, Black Veil Brides, etc).
> 
> All that said, there are still "big bands". But they have been around long enough to amass a fanbase through the years (e.g. Parkway Drive, In Flames, and Gojira can draw large crowds, but have been around for 20 years).
> 
> Lastly, the musical landscape has changed. The era of a few bands dominating the scene are gone. Now it's watered down, so it has become hard to stand out amongst the background noise.
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem is the crossover interference with my wireless. Otherwise it's hidden. Tee hee.




I'd argue that a few bands still dominate the scene, like Metallica, Iron Maiden and Slipknot. When they put out an album, people buy just based on name recognition. In contrast, most other bands find it difficult to even move a few thousand units. 

The labels also recognise this, which is why those bands seem to have several music videos out when they release an album, whereas most other bands would be lucky to get one. 

Consequently, the newer bands grab less eyeballs, because nowadays the audience seems to have gravitated towards consuming their music along with a visual element. Even people who aren't into metal know who Metallica and Iron Maiden are. 

Why metal is a niche genre is for the same reasons you mentioned. The fanbase seems to be shrinking all the time. and it is no longer as popular as it was. Chances are some kid in school will meet a girl and she's into Miley Cyrus and he'll follow suit. 

And the pool consequently seems to grow smaller and smaller all the time.


----------



## Anectine_Matt

mbardu said:


> It's a lot of money, but I particularly like the part where he explains how his mother talks the talk of his favorite western music sand painting band "Candidate Hard" thank you. Thank you.


----------



## TimmyPage

Frostod said:


> ngl but the design is growing on me



Yeah same, I hate it when I first saw it, but now after seeing a few demoes I'm starting to come around. I really like the look of the seafoam one here:


----------



## nickgray

diagrammatiks said:


> so they can totally make neck through s's without pickup rings...like if they wanted too



Imagine if they've made one without the plastic raiser for the pickup selector switch as well. Truly the end of times. Half Life 3 and new Necrophagist would be just around the corner.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

nickgray said:


> Imagine if they've made one without the plastic raiser for the pickup selector switch as well. Truly the end of times. Half Life 3 and new Necrophagist would be just around the corner.


----------



## Albake21

So is anyone else hoping that these new S j-customs and the new headless series means Ibanez will actually put some love into the S series again? I feel like with so many players going away from pointy shapes, the S could be a hit again. These new headless models would actually be pretty cool with the same look and idea but in a bigger form factor/the S series. Or is this their answer to people wanting a newer Saber?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> So is anyone else hoping that these new S j-customs and the new headless series means Ibanez will actually put some love into the S series again? I feel like with so many players going away from pointy shapes, the S could be a hit again. These new headless models would actually be pretty cool with the same look and idea but in a bigger form factor/the S series. Or is this their answer to people wanting a newer Saber?



az effectively dug the S's grave. 
thanks Ibanez.


----------



## odibrom

diagrammatiks said:


> az effectively dug the S's grave.
> thanks Ibanez.



don't, just don't say that... some times when we put thoughts into words, they become the truth and reality. This is not that time, erase your post please...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> az effectively dug the S's grave.
> thanks Ibanez.



Sales did that. 

It doesn't matter what Ibanez makes: 6, 7, and 8-strings, DiMarzios, EMGs, and BKPs stock, various wood combos, dozens of finishes from flat black to four color bursts, Edge bridges, fixed bridges, MIJ, etc. It does anywhere from terrible to middling.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Sales did that.
> 
> It doesn't matter what Ibanez makes: 6, 7, and 8-strings, DiMarzios, EMGs, and BKPs stock, various wood combos, dozens of finishes from flat black to four color bursts, Edge bridges, fixed bridges, MIJ, etc. It does anywhere from terrible to middling.



it's like you have to market something for it to sell.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> it's like you have to market something for it to sell.



Artists don't want it. They got Kiko to compromise with an SA, but even he moved on to the RG. The PW doesn't move, despite being the exact guitar he uses. The JIVA was doing decent at first, but there's talk about rolling back the MIJ model. The EGEN didn't move and was finally put out of its misery. They even made Broderick use one with Megadeth. It's fully on offer from LACS and endorsees avoid it like the plague.

They always include it in new series launches, keep the offerings variable, post them on social media.

What else can be done?


----------



## odibrom

diagrammatiks said:


> it's like you have to market something for it to sell.



yep, I think this as much, Ibanez has not been marketing Sabers as much as they have on RGs or on any other model and specially not when compared to the newer ones. If they priced the Sabers as the RGs are priced, they'd sell a whole lot more, I think. Yeah, Sabers may take a bit more time in the factory to build up, but a price level with the RGs would boost the sales effectively. There was a time when there was the same model in Saber and RG form, with the saber being 300$ more... for the exact same specs... one can't help but think, "yeah, sabers look cool, but I could buy another pedal with the difference." - This is what has been killing Sabers...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> yep, I think this as much, Ibanez has not been marketing Sabers as much as they have on RGs or on any other model and specially not when compared to the newer ones. If they priced the Sabers as the RGs are priced, they'd sell a whole lot more, I think. Yeah, Sabers may take a bit more time in the factory to build up, but a price level with the RGs would boost the sales effectively. There was a time when there was the same model in Saber and RG form, with the saber being 300$ more... for the exact same specs... one can't help but think, "yeah, sabers look cool, but I could buy another pedal with the difference." - This is what has been killing Sabers...



They are currently priced roughly the same in most of the world.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S6570QNBL--ibanez-s-prestige-s6570q-natural-blue

VS.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RG5120MFCN--ibanez-prestige-rg5120m-frozen-ocea

It's been like that for a number of years now. The difference is usually somewhere around 15%, if at all.


----------



## odibrom

I remember this model to cost more than the RG one, maybe the 300$ was a bit exaggerated. 100 to 150$ difference is still money that one can spend in something else gear related, it could mean an entry level audio interface for example...

@MaxOfMetal You know this realm way better than me for sure, but here I'm with @diagrammatiks, Ibanez isn't pushing the sabers as they are with other models. It is what it is, marketing is what a brand wants to say about their products and if they wanted people to say "sabers are the best", they'd pay them to say it and it would in fact push the model forward as it does with the new Q series as also it did with the AZs... and although the models you suggested kind of fall within the same quality level, they aren't quite the same specs and finishes...

I hope I'm mistaken, but I think that Sabers will meet the Radius fate soon enough... too bad, those were great also and can only be found in Satriani's models... but Radius had an angled headstock and Satriani's don't... and I shouldn't have said this...


----------



## Perge

MaxOfMetal said:


> They are currently priced roughly the same in most of the world.
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S6570QNBL--ibanez-s-prestige-s6570q-natural-blue
> 
> VS.
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RG5120MFCN--ibanez-prestige-rg5120m-frozen-ocea
> 
> It's been like that for a number of years now. The difference is usually somewhere around 15%, if at all.


SSO user: If they did XYZ, they'd sell

Max: they did, they still do, here's receipts

SSO user: yeah but


----------



## Sermo Lupi

MaxOfMetal said:


> Artists don't want it. They got Kiko to compromise with an SA, but even he moved on to the RG. The PW doesn't move, despite being the exact guitar he uses. The JIVA was doing decent at first, but there's talk about rolling back the MIJ model. The EGEN didn't move and was finally put out of its misery. They even made Broderick use one with Megadeth. It's fully on offer from LACS and endorsees avoid it like the plague.



Don't forget Stephen Forte, who moved from a Saber-clone Lag to the real deal via an endorsement with Ibanez. Forte might be pretty niche as an artist, but Ibanez essentially lucked into 10 years of prototyping on their guitar with that signing. Despite this, they built Forte a rather uninspired LACS Saber and didn't pursue a signature model. Everything they've sent him since has been an off-the-rack RG. It's been such a waste.


----------



## nickgray

@MaxOfMetal Oh come on, that's just cheating  It has to be a 5-way blade. But it did get dangerously close though...


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Artists don't want it. They got Kiko to compromise with an SA, but even he moved on to the RG. The PW doesn't move, despite being the exact guitar he uses. The JIVA was doing decent at first, but there's talk about rolling back the MIJ model. The EGEN didn't move and was finally put out of its misery. They even made Broderick use one with Megadeth. It's fully on offer from LACS and endorsees avoid it like the plague.
> 
> They always include it in new series launches, keep the offerings variable, post them on social media.
> 
> What else can be done?



hire the entire backstar marketing team. 

actually from my anecdotal evidence the lower priced s's seem pretty popular. eh.


----------



## odibrom

Perge said:


> SSO user: If they did XYZ, they'd sell
> 
> Max: they did, they still do, here's receipts
> 
> SSO user: yeah but
> 
> View attachment 95516



Bro, if you go with the receipts argument, you can find fancy Premiums at the same price (or higher) as plane colored Prestiges... so, the specs (including origin) are the constant to compare prices with.


----------



## Perge

odibrom said:


> I remember this model to cost more than the RG one, maybe the 300$ was a bit exaggerated. 100 to 150$ difference is still money that one can spend in something else gear related, it could mean an entry level audio interface for example...
> 
> @MaxOfMetal You know this realm way better than me for sure, but here I'm with @diagrammatiks, Ibanez isn't pushing the sabers as they are with other models. It is what it is, marketing is what a brand wants to say about their products and if they wanted people to say "sabers are the best", they'd pay them to say it and it would in fact push the model forward as it does with the new Q series as also it did with the AZs... and although the models you suggested kind of fall within the same quality level, they aren't quite the same specs and finishes...
> 
> I hope I'm mistaken, but I think that Sabers will meet the Radius fate soon enough... too bad, those were great also and can only be found in Satriani's models... but Radius had an angled headstock and Satriani's don't... and I shouldn't have said this...


So...you want Ibanez to waste money forcing guitar players to play guitars they don't want to play? So that the s series models they do make will be, at most, 100$ less?

You guys are crazy. Ibanez has pushed the s series in every major launch forever now. In so many configurations. H-H active/passive, one of the few models to consistently get h-s-h. It's not their fault artists would rather have an RG or RGD lacs over a sabre.


----------



## Perge

odibrom said:


> Bro, if you go with the receipts argument, you can find fancy Premiums at the same price (or higher) as plane colored Prestiges... so, the specs (including origin) are the constant to compare prices with.


Because there are less of them made, due to not as high of a demand?

And Ibanez pricing is always stupid. I can get a prestige 7 rg for the price of an iron label 7. That's dumb. But I'm paying a premium for a shape that won't sell as well as the standard rg.

*Totally talking out my ass from this point on. Before this as well, but I like to warn people every now and then*

I wonder if the QC on sabres is higher because it's a thinner guitar. More things could potentially go wrong, considering things like the input jack placement etc. Plus again, it not being a popular model.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Ibanez has been making Sabers for just about 35 years now. That's more than can be said for dozens of lines. The fact of the matter is, regardless of the specs, the prices, artists, or advertisements, the Saber just doesn't sell as many guitars. 

What's more likely? That a guitar company that is one of the most established and profitable the world over doesn't know what they're doing, or that maybe, a particular shape isn't as popular as some others?


----------



## nickgray

MaxOfMetal said:


> That a guitar company that is one of the most established and profitable the world over doesn't know what they're doing



Considering all the stuff that happened to their trems - Edge Pro "upgrade" without locking studs, ball bearing trems that had a patent, relatively unpopular Edge Zero trems with that wacky ZPS thing and two springs only... all the stories about the inconsistent Axion and Premium lines, shitty Prestige hard cases, hideously overpriced parts that you have to go out of your way to order...

Also losing John Petrucci.

Yeah, they're a good company overall, but they indeed do not know what they're doing sometimes, just like most other large companies.


----------



## Wildebeest

nickgray said:


> Considering all the stuff that happened to their trems - Edge Pro "upgrade" without locking studs, ball bearing trems that had a patent, relatively unpopular Edge Zero trems with that wacky ZPS thing and two springs only... all the stories about the inconsistent Axion and Premium lines, shitty Prestige hard cases, hideously overpriced parts that you have to go out of your way to order...
> 
> Also losing John Petrucci.
> 
> Yeah, they're a good company overall, but they indeed do not know what they're doing sometimes, just like most other large companies.


Glad you mentioned the Prestige cases. I'm still a little annoyed about the boring case they made for the Jem777 30th. They put 0 effort into that.


----------



## odibrom

Perge said:


> So...you want Ibanez to waste money forcing guitar players to play guitars they don't want to play? So that the s series models they do make will be, at most, 100$ less?



Obviously, right? This is SS.org, we want what's not in the shelves and when it appears we won't buy because it wasn't really what we wanted...  or could afford... or "now I'm into something else"...



Perge said:


> Because there are less of them made, due to not as high of a demand?
> 
> *And Ibanez pricing is always stupid*. I can get a prestige 7 rg for the price of an iron label 7. That's dumb. But I'm paying a premium for a shape that won't sell as well as the standard rg.
> 
> *Totally talking out my ass from this point on. Before this as well, but I like to warn people every now and then*
> 
> I wonder if the QC on sabres is higher because it's a thinner guitar. More things could potentially go wrong, considering things like the input jack placement etc. Plus again, it not being a popular model.



Well, I think that, from the buyer's perspective, we always want the prices to be lower. The new Iron Label _full on black_ guitars are a staple of this "weird shape" premium price tag...

I'm assuming that you haven't played or owned any Saber...? They're basically the same as every other _strat style_ guitar, just way thinner on the periphery and a little in the middle. Quality control should be exactly the same for both Saber and RG models (from my perspective as an owner of both). Within this guitar shape, the Sabers are some of the most comfortable to play, imo... I'd have more sabers in my stable if not for lack of opportunity or out-of-phase with the launch of interesting models (to me), that I'm now after in the 2nd hand market... and not having that much money to spend also...

Yeah, Sabers have been out since late 80's, since then we've seen the Radius plunge, lots of the X series come and go with the wind, RTs... oh well...

These shapes take a little longer to produce due to their carvings, I know it's all now CNC machined but then there's the sanding... nevertheless, it takes time in the machine and therefore, profits are less for a higher production cost. Simpler designs will take less machine time and hand work. An RG's carvings are basically 2, the arm rest and the belly bevels. A Saber is an all carved guitar as is the Radius / Satriani model. These will take about 1.5 the time in the factory floor against a regular RG (I'm speculating here)...? It's FAIR for these to be priced higher from the production perspective, just not on our pockets.

I just hope that Sabers won't take the fall as did the Radius... I know that a guitar plays as good as its setup and this is transversal to all guitars, no matter its tier level, Sabers, how ever and imo, are like sharp katanas when with a good setup...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

nickgray said:


> Edge Pro "upgrade" without locking studs



They stopped including locking studs because folks were destroying their posts while trying to adjust the locked down studs. Even though Ibanez included two manuals and sent leaflets to dealers.



> ball bearing trems that had a patent



The ZR series was very well received. Plenty of die hard users out there. I don't see how this was bad. 



> relatively unpopular Edge Zero trems with that wacky ZPS thing and two springs only



Here you're just wrong. Some folks on the internet bitch about the EZ, or ZR, but they sold very well, enough so that they're still available in some markets even though it costs more. That's what happens, when things sell they're worth making still.



> all the stories about the inconsistent Axion and Premium lines



Meh, they're no worse than most lines of cheaper guitars made by Jackson, LTD, Schecter, etc. They sell well and the margins are high. Again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.



> shitty Prestige hard cases



They're the same TKLs they've used for decades. It's just a HSC, they're functional. Not sure what's "shitty" about them now.



> hideously overpriced parts that you have to go out of your way to order



They don't want to be a parts vendor, so they don't push retail sales...like pretty much every manufacturer does with proprietary parts. Competitiors like ESP won't even sell replacement parts.



> Also losing John Petrucci.



I'm pretty sure John is sentient and free to make his own choices. Ibanez could have offered him anything and he still could have moved on.



> Yeah, they're a good company overall, but they indeed do not know what they're doing sometimes, just like most other large companies.



This is the same canned answer everyone gives. Pretty much Dunning-Krueger in a nutshell. 

Now, there are some actual "missed opportunities", like the anniversary UV (canceled because of poor PWH Anniversary sales), the Genesis Sabers (canceled because they didn't want to go back to 22-fret), Dino signature discontinuation (due to legal issues in Dino's camp, unrelated to Ibanez), etc. But it's not because they just didn't see the concept, but because it wound up not being viable. It takes a lot to get guitars to market, and unfortunately the math just isn't there sometimes.


----------



## USMarine75

nickgray said:


> Considering all the stuff that happened to their trems - Edge Pro "upgrade" without locking studs, ball bearing trems that had a patent, relatively unpopular Edge Zero trems with that wacky ZPS thing and two springs only... all the stories about the inconsistent Axion and Premium lines, shitty Prestige hard cases, hideously overpriced parts that you have to go out of your way to order...
> 
> Also losing John Petrucci.
> 
> Yeah, they're a good company overall, but they indeed do not know what they're doing sometimes, just like most other large companies.





MaxOfMetal said:


> They stopped including locking studs because folks were destroying their posts while trying to adjust the locked down studs. Even though Ibanez included two manuals and sent leaflets to dealers.
> 
> 
> 
> The ZR series was very well received. Plenty of die hard users out there. I don't see how this was bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you're just wrong. Some folks on the internet bitch about the EZ, or ZR, but they sold very well, enough so that they're still available in some markets even though it costs more. That's what happens, when things sell they're worth making still.
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, they're no worse than most lines of cheaper guitars made by Jackson, LTD, Schecter, etc. They sell well and the margins are high. Again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> They're the same TKLs they've used for decades. It's just a HSC, they're functional. Not sure what's "shitty" about them now.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't want to be a parts vendor, so they don't push retail sales...like pretty much every manufacturer does with proprietary parts. Competitiors like ESP won't even sell replacement parts.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure John is sentient and free to make his own choices. Ibanez could have offered him anything and he still could have moved on.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same canned answer everyone gives. Pretty much Dunning-Krueger in a nutshell.
> 
> Now, there are some actual "missed opportunities", like the anniversary UV (canceled because of poor PWH Anniversary sales), the Genesis Sabers (canceled because they didn't want to go back to 22-fret), Dino signature discontinuation (due to legal issues in Dino's camp, unrelated to Ibanez), etc. But it's not because they just didn't see the concept, but because it wound up not being viable. It takes a lot to get guitars to market, and unfortunately the math just isn't there sometimes.



Max:


----------



## StevenC

nightlight said:


> Everyone wants to be with the cool crowd, listening to Lady Gaga and One Direction.


----------



## nickgray

MaxOfMetal said:


> They don't want to be a parts vendor, so they don't push retail sales...



Seriously?

It's horrible for end users because parts end up costing a shitton. A replacement nut for my Edge Pro 7 costs $100-something.They also have an absolutely insane amount of different parts for their trems, and some of the stuff is discontinued. Floyd Rose parts? You can order some of them even from Amazon, and of course the FR's own website got you covered, and the prices are sane.

Ibanez is downright obsessed with proprietary parts, often down to making their own pickups, which then everybody shits on. They don't want to be a parts vendor? Then stop making goddamn proprietary parts that you have to get out of your way to order at ripoff prices.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.



Fair enough, I'm not a tech and I can't have a consistent picture of QC issues, I can only go by what people say online. Unless you've seen several dozen of these guitars over the years, I doubt you have a clear picture either, and even then it might not be clear cut.

I'm not sure how sales are relevant here, guitars with known tech issues still sell fine, nobody's bothered. It's entirely possible that all those posts about Premium inconsistency are an edge case, but for a model range that goes to $1500 this sure doesn't look nice, especially since Prestiges don't have the same reputation.



MaxOfMetal said:


> They stopped including locking studs because folks were destroying their posts while trying to adjust the locked down studs



And yet they went back to original Edge and Lo-Pro. Besides, if they loosen the locks at the factory (I suspect they do, I'm not sure though), there shouldn't be any issues. You can loosen them by quite a bit and then turn the posts without any danger of damaging the part. Alternatively, they also could've redesigned the locks so that they would come as an accessory and be inserted manually by the user, or whatever other design that prevents user damage. They didn't with the Edge Pro. And they went back to vanilla Edge and Lo-Pro.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Competitiors like ESP won't even sell replacement parts.



Do they even use proprietary parts? Not sure about low end LTD stuff (and it's only an issue when dimensions and screw placements don't correspond to common stuff that's on the market), but high end LTD use Tonepros, Hipshot, FR, Grover tuners, and I think only their locking tuners are "proprietary" (but they're just normal sized tuners, and they don't use a screw, so you have more freedom for replacing them). E-II uses Gotoh hardware and FR.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure what's "shitty" about them now.



I had two of these cases. They're super flimsy and cheaply built, they smell terrible (I'm assuming they're MiC with god knows what kind of glue), and the inside is just a styrofoam block. It's basically "oh fuck off, here's you hard case, happy now?", just the cheapest, most cost cutting case they could get away with.



MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't see how this was bad.



I never said they were bad, they made a mistake because there was a patent, and they've decided to discontinue it. Which brings me back to the replacement parts problem.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

nickgray said:


> Seriously?
> 
> It's horrible for end users because parts end up costing a shitton. A replacement nut for my Edge Pro 7 costs $100-something.They also have an absolutely insane amount of different parts for their trems, and some of the stuff is discontinued. Floyd Rose parts? You can order some of them even from Amazon, and of course the FR's own website got you covered, and the prices are sane.
> 
> Ibanez is downright obsessed with proprietary parts, often down to making their own pickups, which then everybody shits on. They don't want to be a parts vendor? Then stop making goddamn proprietary parts that you have to get out of your way to order at ripoff prices.



The parts are worth it. For years Schaller made garbage parts that you'd have to replace so often it would be cheaper to go Ibanez, I shit you not. Not to mention it makes them unique compared to the typical "parts bin specials".

But you're conflating "good for end user" with "good for company", which are completely different. You can't say this was them "not knowing what they're doing".

You've posted a lot about damaging screws and hardware. Calm down with the tools! 



> Fair enough, I'm not a tech and I can't have a consistent picture of QC issues, I can only go by what people say online. Unless you've seen several dozen of these guitars over the years, I doubt you have a clear picture either, and even then it might not be clear cut.



I've worked on guitars professionally for almost three decades. I also worked at one of the highest volume guitar shops in the southeastern US for two decades.

I've probably worked on thousands of guitars, plenty Ibanez.

Have I seen every guitar ever? No. But on top of what I've seen I've interacted with many who have seen just as much.



> I'm not sure how sales are relevant here, guitars with known tech issues still sell fine, nobody's bothered. It's entirely possible that all those posts about Premium inconsistency are an edge case, but for a model range that goes to $1500 this sure doesn't look nice, especially since Prestiges don't have the same reputation.



Sales matter because you're framing it as Ibanez "not knowing what they're doing" (your words), when they certainly do know that QA/QC problems will be more apparent when trying to hit certain sales margins. It's quite the opposite of "not knowing".



> And yet they went back to original Edge and Lo-Pro.



It was a somewhat complicated situation, mainly involving a patent dispute that was settled. Which is why the Zero stuff was pulled from NA.



> Besides, if they loosen the locks at the factory (I suspect they do, I'm not sure though), there shouldn't be any issues. You can loosen them by quite a bit and then turn the posts without any danger of damaging the part. Alternatively, they also could've redesigned the locks so that they would come as an accessory and be inserted manually by the user, or whatever other design that prevents user damage. They didn't with the Edge Pro. And they went back to vanilla Edge and Lo-Pro.



The locking grubs came un-installed. What was happening was folks were either buying used or the tech they paid to setup the guitar didn't instruct the player to unlock them prior to adjustment.

They stopped providing them until the Edge Zero came out.



> Do they even use proprietary parts? Not sure about low end LTD stuff (and it's only an issue when dimensions and screw placements don't correspond to common stuff that's on the market), but high end LTD use Tonepros, Hipshot, FR, Grover tuners, and I think only their locking tuners are "proprietary" (but they're just normal sized tuners, and they don't use a screw, so you have more freedom for replacing them). E-II uses Gotoh hardware and FR.



ESP uses proprietary components on many of their high end "ESP" branded guitars, especially color matched and unique hardware pieces.



> I had two of these cases. They're super flimsy and cheaply built, they smell terrible (I'm assuming they're MiC with god knows what kind of glue), and the inside is just a styrofoam block. It's basically "oh fuck off, here's you hard case, happy now?", just the cheapest, most cost cutting case they could get away with.



I've toured with them, moved cross country multiple times, no problems. 




> I never said they were bad, they made a mistake because there was a patent, and they've decided to discontinue it. Which brings me back to the replacement parts problem.



How again is this Ibanez "not knowing what they're doing"?


----------



## aesthyrian

MaxOfMetal said:


> ...the Genesis Sabers (canceled because they didn't want to go back to 22-fret)



This was a thing at one point??? What? Oh that woulda been so awesome!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I get why they did it (no one wants to buy a 22 fret Ibanez superstrat... I'm saying this under the assumption the 22-fret AZs don't sell as well as the 24-fret ones ), but man a H-S-S 540S reissue would have been killleeeer.


----------



## cardinal

ESP does have a bit of an issue with replacement parts. Their 7-string customs years back used a 45-mm locking nut. I bought a used guitar with one that had some grooves in it and ordered a replacement, which ESP said was the last one they had. So I sure hope no one else out there runs into that issue...


----------



## StevenC

nickgray said:


> Ibanez is downright obsessed with proprietary parts, often down to making their own pickups, which then everybody shits on.


The reason Ibanez uses their own pickups in base spec Prestiges is because they know people are going to change them out for the pickups they want 99% of the time. What's the point in making the customer pay for a set of Dimarzios when they're just going to sway them for Bare Knuckles or a different Dimarzio set?

Ibanez can make MIJ guitars with great hardware for less than they can make MII guitars with branded pickups.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

As the former owner/user of Saber and long time RG user i must confess that for me RG is more comfortable. Sitting or standing. I prefer the belly and arm rest cutaways over the archtop.


----------



## trem licking

Ibanez proprietary hardware is top notch... Worth the extra cost. Many innovative improvements on the floyd design


----------



## josh1

I love the S' weight but the RG just looks cooler, man.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

aesthyrian said:


> This was a thing at one point??? What? Oh that woulda been so awesome!



It was being seriously considered, and was on the shortlist of models for consideration as far as reissues/Genesis models go, but it just didn't pan out.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

nickgray said:


> Do they even use proprietary parts? Not sure about low end LTD stuff (and it's only an issue when dimensions and screw placements don't correspond to common stuff that's on the market), but high end LTD use Tonepros, Hipshot, FR, Grover tuners, and I think only their locking tuners are "proprietary" (but they're just normal sized tuners, and they don't use a screw, so you have more freedom for replacing them). E-II uses Gotoh hardware and FR.



They sure do! You think Ibanez prices are looney tunes, get a load of this! The only proprietary part they use on non-exhibition or wild customs is the Flicker-III bridge, IIRC. Great trem.



cardinal said:


> ESP does have a bit of an issue with replacement parts. Their 7-string customs years back used a 45-mm locking nut. I bought a used guitar with one that had some grooves in it and ordered a replacement, which ESP said was the last one they had. So I sure hope no one else out there runs into that issue...



And here I am hoping to order a custom Horizon in the future with a 46mm locking nut... They fab up so much custom stuff you _know_ they could do it for a price, though I imagine no dealer would go to bat for that.


----------



## Seabeast2000

I'd probably buy a Radius 2021 style.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Seabeast2000 said:


> I'd probably buy a Radius 2021 style.



Yeah, I was always surprised that the Radius never quite found its niche, outside the JS series. I wonder if the Chesbro vs. HUSA thing had anything to do with it.


----------



## nickgray

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Flicker-III bridge, IIRC. Great trem.



For $600 it should be  Holy shit though, $600 for a vintage trem... I don't think even the PRS trem that they use on Cores is that expensive.



Crash Dandicoot said:


> The only proprietary part they use on non-exhibition or wild customs



Oh, that's good then. Gotoh stuff is easy to find on ebay or amazon even, Hipshot is easily available, and FR, and Tonepros (for the LTDs).


----------



## narad

Is there anything that stands out on that flicker bridge as being a noticeable improvement over other things? Any advantage there besides appearance/rarity?

I wouldn't necessarily mind on a 7-string, since 7-string floyds are in the $300 ballpark, right? But man, to do that TOM-style bridge and tailpiece is like a $900 endeavor IIRC


----------



## TrevorT

Not sure if this has been discussed recently, but it looks like the custom shop is still happening. RGs only apparently. From Dan who works at Ibanez Germany:

Edit: I'm dumb so I can't get the images to work. Here are the links:
Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2

Edit 2: Apparently I'm not quite as dumb as I thought. These images should hopefully work:


----------



## Wucan

Really interested how that'll stack up with ESP/Jackson/Schecter customs. Although the RG only thing made me laugh in light of the complaints about the shortage of S series.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Seabeast2000 said:


> I'd probably buy a Radius 2021 style.



Bring back the Power series.

No I don't mean the II.






EDIT: While we're at it; The Roadstar ProLine.


----------



## Seabeast2000

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, I was always surprised that the Radius never quite found its niche, outside the JS series. I wonder if the Chesbro vs. HUSA thing had anything to do with it.


How close is the carve of the JS to the Radius?


----------



## odibrom

Seabeast2000 said:


> How close is the carve of the JS to the Radius?



I think it's the same minus the neck joint, pickups configs, bridge specs and jack input...? But I can be wrong as it appears to be too often for my likes... but I'm ok with it...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Seabeast2000 said:


> How close is the carve of the JS to the Radius?



Same, with the provision that the Radius carve has had minor tweaks along its run, and the JS used to have some quirks as far as production.


----------



## odibrom

MaxOfMetal said:


> Same, with the provision that the Radius carve has had minor tweaks along its run, and the JS used to have some quirks as far as production.



I thought a much abou being the same carve. What quirks are you talking about?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Is the JS like this? Dang its been a long, long time since seeing one of these in person.


----------



## spudmunkey

TrevorT said:


> Not sure if this has been discussed recently, but it looks like the custom shop is still happening. RGs only apparently. From Dan who works at Ibanez Germany:
> 
> Edit: I'm dumb so I can't get the images to work. Here are the links:
> Screenshot 1
> Screenshot 2
> 
> Edit 2: Apparently I'm not quite as dumb as I thought. These images should hopefully work:




FYI, this is what your post looks on my screen/browser:





And both "Screenshot" links show me this image:


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> I thought a much abou being the same carve. What quirks are you talking about?



For awhile they had a noticeable "line" across the lower bout, it was a production thing with Fujigen. It was corrected some years ago.



Seabeast2000 said:


> Is the JS like this? Dang its been a long, long time since seeing one of these in person.



Yep.

The JS is one of those models you have to play to appreciate. The specs and looks aren't anything to special, but they play like absolute butter.


----------



## TrevorT

spudmunkey said:


> FYI, this is what your post looks on my screen/browser:
> And both "Screenshot" links show me this image:
> View attachment 95579


Well damn... thanks for the heads up! Here's the link to the Instagram post (you can find the info in the comments) if anyone's interested as apparently I'm incapabable of figuring out how to attach pictures lol.


----------



## LordHar

Attached are the images, and here are some of the quotes from the post:

"In short: Contact your Ibanez dealer, choose specs, get a price quote, receive top woods images to choose from, pick your favorite, wait 3-4 months, pick up the instrument at your dealer, enjoy the guitar of your dreams"

"You can have your own RG built. The array of specs is limited, of course, but we offer >120 finish/wood combinations"

"talking about one-offs, not limited runs for dealers"


----------



## narad

Nice. Morion black quilt + maple board + no tree of life


----------



## nightlight

StevenC said:


>



I meant it sarcastically. I should start using the smiley.


----------



## USMarine75

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Bring back the Power series.
> 
> No I don't mean the II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: While we're at it; The Roadstar ProLine.



I've been GASing for a pink one a la early Paul Gilbert as well as a Pro Line V.


----------



## Albake21

LordHar said:


> Attached are the images, and here are some of the quotes from the post:
> 
> "In short: Contact your Ibanez dealer, choose specs, get a price quote, receive top woods images to choose from, pick your favorite, wait 3-4 months, pick up the instrument at your dealer, enjoy the guitar of your dreams"
> 
> "You can have your own RG built. The array of specs is limited, of course, but we offer >120 finish/wood combinations"
> 
> "talking about one-offs, not limited runs for dealers"
> View attachment 95581
> View attachment 95582


If they allow me to make an RGA with a blank ebony board, I'd put money down immediately and wouldn't even think twice. Still, a custom RG that only takes 3-4 months ain't bad at all. I'm assuming the tree of life though will still be a requirement, and that's a big deal breaker for me.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

TrevorT said:


> Not sure if this has been discussed recently, but it looks like the custom shop is still happening. RGs only apparently. From Dan who works at Ibanez Germany:



Still "happening" or still a "miscommunication between European distributer and Hoshino Gakki in Japan"?


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

narad said:


> Is there anything that stands out on that flicker bridge as being a noticeable improvement over other things? Any advantage there besides appearance/rarity?
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily mind on a 7-string, since 7-string floyds are in the $300 ballpark, right? But man, to do that TOM-style bridge and tailpiece is like a $900 endeavor IIRC



Not particularly, they're well made but nothing groundbreaking. Their cost directly from ESP vs. how much they affect an actual equipped guitar's price is wildly different, it seems. Getting one on a used Snapper isn't an upcharge at all in the second hand market vs the older Gotoh versions, yet straight from ESP you might as well custom mill your own, for the cost.


----------



## littlebadboy

TimmyPage said:


> Yeah same, I hate it when I first saw it, but now after seeing a few demoes I'm starting to come around. I really like the look of the seafoam one here:




Same here. My first impression on the guitar shape was nkt so nice. But, it's growing on me now.

These Q demo players are awesome! Are they popular in the guitar world nowadays (I'm old)?

I am liking the HH models. I have to hide my Sweetwater card away from myself. Dammit.


----------



## narad

littlebadboy said:


> These Q demo players are awesome! Are they popular in the guitar world nowadays (I'm old)?



On social media, yes.


----------



## TrevorT

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Still "happening" or still a "miscommunication between European distributer and Hoshino Gakki in Japan"?


According to Dan they're going to be releasing a video about it soon, but who knows... maybe this is all due to some unfortunate persistent translation error between German and Japanese lol.


----------



## josh1

Ichika's will be available early next month.


----------



## Hollowway

See, I specifically WANT a tree of life inlay. I guess because I've never had one. My dream would be a 7v7, but those things are basically the price of a house now.


----------



## odibrom

Hollowway said:


> See, I specifically WANT a tree of life inlay. I guess because I've never had one. My dream would be a 7v7, but those things are basically the price of a house now.



I've seen a 7V7 on reverb a few weeks back for more than 5k... guys are crazy... I think it's gone already... or removed from sales...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> I've seen a 7V7 on reverb a few weeks back for more than 5k... guys are crazy... I think it's gone already... or removed from sales...



I sold mine for almost twice what I paid and that was before the pandemic. Vai fans can be whacky.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

odibrom said:


> I've seen a 7V7 on reverb a few weeks back for more than 5k... guys are crazy... I think it's gone already... or removed from sales...



If it's the one I think, the guy is a member over on JEMsite and did a youtube video about it, looking at how much he could sell it for, it was originally listed at $8000 and sold relatively quickly for a couple of grand less, about 5K I think he said.


----------



## cardinal

I think I sold one for $1500 a few years back  I am soooo bad at this gear thing.


----------



## diagrammatiks

dunno where else to put this...

I love these picks so much.

whatever that special ultra heavy weight blah blah plastic.

cheap. super durable. just wish they made them a bit thicker.

new ones have a rubberized grip inlaid into the plastic.


----------



## littlebadboy

diagrammatiks said:


> View attachment 95640
> 
> 
> new ones have a rubberized grip inlaid into the plastic.



Where may I buy the newer ones.


----------



## Bdtunn

diagrammatiks said:


> View attachment 95640
> dunno where else to put this...
> 
> I love these picks so much.
> 
> whatever that special ultra heavy weight blah blah plastic.
> 
> cheap. super durable. just wish they made them a bit thicker.
> 
> new ones have a rubberized grip inlaid into the plastic.



I just bought the vai picks with the rubber grip and they are like glue! Loooove them


----------



## Quiet Coil

@diagrammatiks Picks would fall under the “Gear and Equipment” category (not a exactly obvious, but that’s where I’ve found them brought up in the past).

The more I see of these Q guitars, the more I want them to hurry up and make a proper multi-scale 7 or 8. Seems like the body should be quite comfortable (though I’m not sure about those action screws on the saddles).

They’re still not the prettiest thing to look at, but if executed well I could see them being highly functional.


----------



## TrevorT

Quiet Coil said:


> The more I see of these Q guitars, the more I want them to hurry up and make a proper multi-scale 7 or 8. Seems like the body should be quite comfortable (though I’m not sure about those action screws on the saddles).


I was worried about the saddle height adjustment screws as well from the promo photos, but after seeing some pictures of the actual production models it looks like they have shorter ones that don't stick out (iirc...).


----------



## diagrammatiks

littlebadboy said:


> Where may I buy the newer ones.


ebay but the shipping makes it a bit pricey.


----------



## Quiet Coil

TrevorT said:


> I was worried about the saddle height adjustment screws as well from the promo photos, but after seeing some pictures of the actual production models it looks like they have shorter ones that don't stick out (iirc...).


Wasn’t thinking with my whole brain anyway - it’s not like they’re bent steel and I’ve replaced plenty of screws to suit my tastes.


----------



## RevDrucifer

MaxOfMetal said:


> I sold mine for almost twice what I paid and that was before the pandemic. Vai fans can be whacky.



The whole thing behind that model was weird. For YEARS on Jemsite, JEM fans were begging for it. I believe Rich Harris played a part in getting Ibanez to actually do it as well…..and then no one bought them.

Now there’s a dude on Jemsite who is saying they should bring it back. 

The biggest killer for me was that it didn’t have an ebony fingerboard and that’s one of my favorite aspects of my 7V.


----------



## odibrom

RevDrucifer said:


> The whole thing behind that model was weird. For YEARS on Jemsite, JEM fans were begging for it. I believe Rich Harris played a part in getting Ibanez to actually do it as well…..and then no one bought them.
> 
> Now there’s a dude on Jemsite who is saying they should bring it back.
> 
> The biggest killer for me was that it didn’t have an ebony fingerboard and that’s one of my favorite aspects of my 7V.



It was priced high, directed to collectors and not to players...


----------



## LordHar

https://instagram.fams1-1.fna.fbcdn...cfc500c2b2297b04d9&oe=610EA70D&_nc_sid=4f375e

Can't get the image to work right now, but here is the link. (Pink Quest model)


----------



## Randy

LordHar said:


> https://instagram.fams1-1.fna.fbcdn...cfc500c2b2297b04d9&oe=610EA70D&_nc_sid=4f375e
> 
> Can't get the image to work right now, but here is the link. (Pink Quest model)


----------



## Kyle Jordan

^I like that more than I rightfully should.


----------



## Randy

There's some cool aspects to them, now that I've gotten used to it. Once they make some more metal friendly models, I think it'll take off big. The one above would look pretty cool stained black with matte black pickguard, richlite board and cosmo fixings.


----------



## LordHar

The model in action


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Pink and gold... so true metal axe. Truly tasteful ;-)
You can roast me 
Imho Give it some dark and classy color dye (deep blue, green or red) on ash body, black hardware, birdseye or flame sloghtly baked maple fingerboard and call it a day


----------



## ArtDecade

They kinda remind me of the Reb Beach models, but without headstocks.


----------



## TrevorT

Randy said:


> There's some cool aspects to them, now that I've gotten used to it. Once they make some more metal friendly models, I think it'll take off big. The one above would look pretty cool stained black with matte black pickguard, richlite board and cosmo fixings.


Yeah I'd like to see them go all-in with some metal-focused models. I'd also love to see Ibanez's take on a headless tremolo system.


----------



## Jesse Zuretti

Lemonbaby said:


> Still undecided about his skills. Can he play "Wonderwall"?
> 
> Music wise I like the Ibanez demo of their ICTB721 better.




Hey, thanks! Glad you enjoyed it <3


----------



## bastardbullet

I finally came across the axion label RGD61ALA and prestige RGDR4427FX at a local guitar store yesterday and sadly both were a total disappointment. 

The nonsense mono bridge felt like a piece of trash on both. It was effecting my right hand angle in a weird way that i had to pick harder to feel the string responding in the way it should. 

Razor sharp fret ends were almost everywhere, maybe a bit less but still sticking my hand here and there on the prestige either. Also the axion one had some weird paint blemishes and it was waayy heavy for a six string that neither i or the store guy couldn't figure out what the reason was.


----------



## Zhysick

Randy said:


> There's some cool aspects to them, now that I've gotten used to it. Once they make some more metal friendly models, I think it'll take off big. The one above would look pretty cool stained black with matte black pickguard, richlite board and cosmo fixings.



Who the fffff are you to tell me pink and gold is not metal???


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

New AZ Essential lineup. Basically standard and stripped down AZs. 



Will make for fun modding templates.


----------



## Albake21

Bloody_Inferno said:


> New AZ Essential lineup. Basically standard and stripped down AZs.
> 
> 
> 
> Will make for fun modding templates.



I bet these will sell very well to the non Ibanez players or just the new players liking this new AZ style. I take it these are just made at the same factory as Ibanez' other standard line? Kinda feels like the RT line again.


----------



## CanserDYI

Albake21 said:


> I bet these will sell very well to the non Ibanez players or just the new players liking this new AZ style. I take it these are just made at the same factory as Ibanez' other standard line? Kinda feels like the RT line again.


Funny you mention it, AZ's are the only line that has ever drawn me to Ibanez.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They're going to make a killing in the developing markets (West Asia, South America, Africa, etc.) capitalizing on the AZ name in place of the GRX these will replace on shelves.


----------



## Musiscience

This new line of AZ is awesome. I really wish I could have had a guitar this versatile when just starting out. Well played Ibanez.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Musiscience said:


> This new line of AZ is awesome. I really wish I could have had a guitar this versatile when just starting out. Well played Ibanez.



These remind me of evolutions of basic and simple Strats, kind of like the Mexican Strats of the late 90s and early 2000s that really punched above their weight. I'm not exactly sure about the scale length and radius, but since these are targeted at beginners or still relatively new players, it makes good sense. The split shaft tuners are a big thumbs up.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

As a guitar teacher I am excited about this. Very excited.


----------



## kamello

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're going to make a killing in the developing markets (West Asia, South America, Africa, etc.) capitalizing on the AZ name in place of the GRX these will replace on shelves.



can confirm, people down here are crazy about the AZ line, but most kids definitely can't go and fork out 1-2K for a Prestige/Premium, hell, im gassing for that blue H-S-S one


----------



## Ataraxia2320

I'm just stoked that they have the PRS scale length of 25". Was looking for a fixed bridge Squier to throw some eric johnson pickups into but the scale length and the price to value ratio won me over instantly. 3 weeks before they are in stock at thomann. Can't wait.


----------



## I play music

Finally a Strat without the shitty trem that most people don't use anyway


Ataraxia2320 said:


> I'm just stoked that they have the PRS scale length of 25". Was looking for a fixed bridge Squier to throw some eric johnson pickups into but the scale length and the price to value ratio won me over instantly. 3 weeks before they are in stock at thomann. Can't wait.


probably they went a bit shorter because in that price range they are aiming at kids also


----------



## Justaguitarist

Is it just me or does the RG5320C look pretty good? Idk I like the way that metallic blue looks with the chrome hardware, though I usually prefer black hardware. Also the pickup covers match the hardware and it´s cool that they´re starting to use stainless steel frets. Most of the Indo and some of the Prestige models kind of look like shit though.


----------



## gunshow86de




----------

