# Periphery's use of the Keeley 4 knob compressor...



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

Okay, I'm curious about Periphery's use of the Keeley 4 knob compressor.

As far as I know, they are the ONLY band/artist I know of who uses a compressor before high gain amp settings... and in particular the only metal band I know of who does this. I think the reason for this is because compressors add a lot of noise when used with high gain settings. However, the noise gates counteract that, I guess...

Now, I've used compressors before an amp (or amp sim) before for clean tones and I like what it does for cleans (I'm big into the ambient Pink Floyd-esque type clean sounds for prog rock stuff), but never with high gain rhythm or lead tones. I understand that they leave the compressor on at all times and use it to kind of fight with the noisegates to allow high threshold settings for the quick start/stop riffing without killing sustain for slower more sustained notes (like a drawn out chord, or a lead with a lot of feel, etc.).

I found this idea interesting because I was considering getting an ISP Decimator Pro Rack G which has a similar effect (minus the compression, of course). So, I'm thinking about trying out the compressor + noise gates thing instead and seeing how that works. I just have a few questions.

1. How exactly is the compressor setup in conjunction with the noise gates? I believe Misha uses two gates.... a decimator and a boss ns-2. Is one of these in the FX loop to kill amp hum and the other for gating feedback? or are they both before the amp? If so, how are they setup?

2. Can you easily find a balance between the compressor settings and noise gate threshold settings that keeps the dynamics in check well enough to allow switching from a high gain channel to a clean channel without killing the sustain for cleans? This is the reason why I'm interested in the ISP Pro Rack G.

3. What kind of effect does the compressor have when playing with high gain settings? I haven't tried yet, but I imagine it would even out the signal a lot, which would probably make legato and tapping stuff seem easier than without the compressor. Is this noticeable? does it hurt the high gain tone in any way? Say, maybe an undesirable "smoothing out" of pick attack or anything like that?

I'll probably send Misha a PM asking him to look at this thread when he gets a chance, but if anybody else has some experience with this and has info for me, let me know!


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## AlexWadeWC (Jan 10, 2010)

I bought a Keeley 4 Knob after I saw the Periphery gear video because I wanted to be able to set my single ISP noise gate tighter, yet still have alot of sustain. I talked to Misha and he said he runs the comp first in his chain, before everything.

I have yet to even break out my set up and even try the comp which is a bummer, so I can't tell you the effect on the overall tone, but when I do I'll let you know how it goes.

Right now I have my chain planned as follows:

tuner -> 4 knob comp -> ISP -> digitech whammy -> OD-9

and from what I could see in the video his chain was ISP -> OD -> NS-2, with the comp before all of that.


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering why two gates are used before the amp like that. It seems like you could maybe get away with just using one and placing it last, after the OD, but then maybe the extra noise would be too much... not sure...


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## Sepultorture (Jan 10, 2010)

tried the G string ISP decimator pedal at a friends place, DEFINITELY getting one


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## Fzau (Jan 10, 2010)

I thought Misha's NS-2 was placed after the G-Major, so that it was silenced as well.. that what I remember from the vid at least 
Don't know whether the G-Major was in front of his amp or in the loop though


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

Fzau said:


> I thought Misha's NS-2 was placed after the G-Major, so that it was silenced as well.. that what I remember from the vid at least
> Don't know whether the G-Major was in front of his amp or in the loop though



The video didn't really explain it too well. It listed the gates and compressor, but not much more info about it.

I've never heard of anyone else using a compressor like this, so that's why I'm so curious.


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 10, 2010)

i´m guessing the Decimator removes noise for a cleaner signal, while the NS-2 is used as a hard-ass gate. so you have the compressor that makes the entire signal hit the distortion at once (kinda, sorta), while evening things out and giving lots of sustain. the downside is that it brings up tons and tons of noise. the Decimator would be quieting the signal so the signal/noise ration is more normal, maybe even quieter than normal (i haven´t tried it myself, so i don´t know). then it goes through the TS for tonal shaping and boosting, and then through the NS-2 that does the gating job harder and more direct.

so that´s my guess. compression-noise reduction (smoother)-boosting-hard gate.


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## Fzau (Jan 10, 2010)

VHT Valvulator => BOSS TU-2 => Keeley 4-knob compressor => ISP Decimator => Maxon OD808 => NS-2 => G-Major => TC Electronics Stereo/Chorus/Flanger

NVM what I stated earlier 
Bulb also uses the compressor to fight against his two noise gates. 
Without it I don't think he would be able to get a good low chunck out of the palm mutes for example since the gates would catch on too quickly.
Plus he can still have an amazingly tight sound to if he palm mutes a but higher than normal (or any other PM technique he uses).
That's the main reason methinks.. knowing how much of a tone nerd Misha is 

The reason why I haven't heard of other bands who do this could be:
a) they do it but we just don't know it
b) they don't need/like the sound/ know about this way of altering your sound

Cool thing about the 4-knob Keeley compressor is that it offers more parameters to adjust than the traditional compressor, thereby making it easier to sculpt your tone. I have one on my wishlist 



MF_Kitten said:


> i´m guessing the Decimator removes noise for a cleaner signal, while the NS-2 is used as a hard-ass gate. so you have the compressor that makes the entire signal hit the distortion at once (kinda, sorta), while evening things out and giving lots of sustain. the downside is that it brings up tons and tons of noise. the Decimator would be quieting the signal so the signal/noise ration is more normal, maybe even quieter than normal (i haven´t tried it myself, so i don´t know). then it goes through the TS for tonal shaping and boosting, and then through the NS-2 that does the gating job harder and more direct.
> 
> so that´s my guess. compression-noise reduction (smoother)-boosting-hard gate.


 
This too 
No idea how the actual gate parameters are set though, that would be to taste I guess


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## HighGain510 (Jan 10, 2010)

You guys realize Misha posts here right?  I'm sure it would be easier to just ask him directly how he uses what he uses...  I know he's crazy busy recording but if you contact him directly I'm sure he'd get back to you eventually with more than just speculation.


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## Metalus (Jan 10, 2010)

HighGain510 said:


> You guys realize Misha posts here right?  I'm sure it would be easier to just ask him directly how he uses what he uses...  I know he's crazy busy recording but if you contact him directly I'm sure he'd get back to you eventually with more than just speculation.


 
+1 

I would love more info on this too . I have a keeley compressor on my wishlist as well .


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

HighGain510 said:


> You guys realize Misha posts here right?  I'm sure it would be easier to just ask him directly how he uses what he uses...  I know he's crazy busy recording but if you contact him directly I'm sure he'd get back to you eventually with more than just speculation.



I didn't want to bother him since he's busy. I just left him a PM asking him to check this thread whenever he gets a chance.


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## -Nolly- (Jan 10, 2010)

JoshuaLogan said:


> 1. How exactly is the compressor setup in conjunction with the noise gates? I believe Misha uses two gates.... a decimator and a boss ns-2. Is one of these in the FX loop to kill amp hum and the other for gating feedback? or are they both before the amp? If so, how are they setup?



There's a gate after the compressor, and another after the tubescreamer. The first one works with the compressor to get the "infinite sustain" sound, that still cuts off extremely sharply when muted. The second is mainly just cutting down noise introduced by the tubescreamer. 
Bear in mind he's using an Engl, which has yet another gate built-in that operates in the loop to cut out any hiss generated by the amp.



> 2. Can you easily find a balance between the compressor settings and noise gate threshold settings that keeps the dynamics in check well enough to allow switching from a high gain channel to a clean channel without killing the sustain for cleans? This is the reason why I'm interested in the ISP Pro Rack G.


Shouldn't be too difficult at all. The compressor makes evens that all out so it's fairly easy.



> 3. What kind of effect does the compressor have when playing with high gain settings? I haven't tried yet, but I imagine it would even out the signal a lot, which would probably make legato and tapping stuff seem easier than without the compressor. Is this noticeable? does it hurt the high gain tone in any way? Say, maybe an undesirable "smoothing out" of pick attack or anything like that?



Depends on the compressor. My experiences with the Keeley are that if anything, I'd say you get a stronger attack. When you're running a high gain tone, the sound is already very compressed so you don't really notice it being any easier to play, the most noticeable effect is the sustain.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Jan 10, 2010)

Wait, so he has *THREE* noise gates?!


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## -Nolly- (Jan 10, 2010)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> Wait, so he has *THREE* noise gates?!



yup


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

-Nolly- said:


> There's a gate after the compressor, and another after the tubescreamer. The first one works with the compressor to get the "infinite sustain" sound, that still cuts off extremely sharply when muted. The second is mainly just cutting down noise introduced by the tubescreamer.
> Bear in mind he's using an Engl, which has yet another gate built-in that operates in the loop to cut out any hiss generated by the amp.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, Nolly. I'll have to check one out sometime. It seems like a pretty clever trick and would mean I wouldn't need the Pro Rack G to allow switching to cleans without choking out sustain. I definitely liked the way it reacted in the video they posted.... if he held a note, it sustained, if he muted, it killed it instantly.... that's how I wish amps reacted always! haha

I still need to try the axe-fx 4 cable method style... if I can get it setup without a ground loop problem, I'll try using its compressor in the same way.


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## bulb (Jan 11, 2010)

hehe nolly hit the nail on the head
yeah all pedals are in front of the amp
keep in mind guys, i kinda designed my rig to be as undynamic as possiboo but only because that works for me, so perhaps 2 gates and/or a compressor in front wouldnt benefit you guys for your personal applications.
but in my case the sound is either on or off, and when its on its full gain and when its off its completely silent.
the compressor allows me to get controlled sustain without my gates choking the sound prematurely


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## 8string (Jan 11, 2010)

How is the compressor set? slow attack fast release? 
This is interesting for those chug chug start stop songs i tend to play.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 11, 2010)

I think running compressors before high gain sounds awesome.


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## Samer (Jan 11, 2010)

bulb said:


> hehe nolly hit the nail on the head
> yeah all pedals are in front of the amp
> keep in mind guys, i kinda designed my rig to be as undynamic as possiboo but only because that works for me, so perhaps 2 gates and/or a compressor in front wouldnt benefit you guys for your personal applications.
> but in my case the sound is either on or off, and when its on its full gain and when its off its completely silent.
> the compressor allows me to get controlled sustain without my gates choking the sound prematurely



Hey Misha, 

your Gmajor + rack mount chorus are in front of the amp as well? Also why that specific compression pedal?


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## bulb (Jan 11, 2010)

Samer said:


> Hey Misha,
> 
> your Gmajor + rack mount chorus are in front of the amp as well? Also why that specific compression pedal?



chorus is in front of the amp
gmajor is in the loop
that compressor was the only one of the many i tried that didnt mess with the tone, very transparent and the attack of the effect was not overbearing, i got it for the clean channel, but then it ended up making the dirty channels sound better.


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## cyril v (Jan 11, 2010)

bulb said:


> chorus is in front of the amp
> gmajor is in the loop
> that compressor was the only one of the many i tried that didnt mess with the tone, very transparent and the attack of the effect was not overbearing, i got it for the clean channel, but then it ended up making the dirty channels sound better.



^
have you tried the Love Squeeze? my friend swears by it... called me an idiot for not having it yet, lol


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## right_to_rage (Jan 12, 2010)

Thats a pretty unique set up, except I wouldn't like having my signal on full boost all of the time which is what the gate will allow. Like bulb says I don't know if the 'on/off' rig would work for me, but its good if you don't ever pull back on the guitars volume knob to clean up a dirty sound. 3 noise gates lol, I dunno I'd have to hear it live, it would get rid of accidental noise i bet but everything you play would be at the same volume! ahhh!!! no dynamics (beyond channel switching). I couldn't live without my varying levels of pick attack


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## petereanima (Jan 12, 2010)

right_to_rage said:


> Thats a pretty unique set up, except I wouldn't like having my signal on full boost all of the time which is what the gate will allow. Like bulb says I don't know if the 'on/off' rig would work for me, but its good if you don't ever pull back on the guitars volume knob to clean up a dirty sound. 3 noise gates lol, I dunno I'd have to hear it live, it would get rid of accidental noise i bet but everything you play would be at the same volume! ahhh!!! no dynamics (beyond channel switching). I couldn't live without my varying levels of pick attack



you know, you could always buy a loop pedal/small "desktop"-loop, and put these pedals into it, leaving the pedals on the whole time and jsut switch them in/out with the loop! 

thats what i propably will do in the near future for my TS+ISP. i think i'll buy a midi-controlled little loop, so i can take them out while switching to the Clean channel...


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## bulb (Jan 12, 2010)

right_to_rage said:


> Thats a pretty unique set up, except I wouldn't like having my signal on full boost all of the time which is what the gate will allow. Like bulb says I don't know if the 'on/off' rig would work for me, but its good if you don't ever pull back on the guitars volume knob to clean up a dirty sound. 3 noise gates lol, I dunno I'd have to hear it live, it would get rid of accidental noise i bet but everything you play would be at the same volume! ahhh!!! no dynamics (beyond channel switching). I couldn't live without my varying levels of pick attack



well i definitely can get varying levels of pick attack, my rig is very responsive so it affects the character of my tone greaty. What im talking about is volume when i say it has no dynamics, and the fact that i cant roll back my volume knob to clean up my tone, which i dont ever do, so thats not much of an issue. But the rig feels awesome to play, because it is incredibly responsive and feels great when you really dig in!


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## biggness (Jan 13, 2010)

HAUCH said:


> Just for shits, I tried putting a compressor/gate/od/gate in front of an amp on my axe fx. Not sure how to make this work, I'm not sure how to employ the compressor correctly.
> 
> Very interesting, though.



Try this: 

*Compressor*
Type - pedal
Sust - 5.47
Att - 5.79
Rel - 5.67
Detect - Rms
Level - 3.5

*Drive*
Type - Tube Drive
Drive - 0
Tone - 4.88
Level - 10

*Amp*
Type - Das Metal
Drive - 4.88
Bass - 3.90
Mid - 5.00
Treb - 8.66 (bright on)
Pres - 1.57
Depth - 5.00
Master - 3.19

*Graphic EQ*
63 - 0
125 - neg4.1
250 - neg7.3
500 - neg5.0
1k - neg7.3
2k - neg7.3
4k - neg6.4
8k - +0.3

*Gate*
I'm using the gate on the 3rd tab of the layout page.
Thresh - 52.8
Ratio - 2.36
Release - 10ms
Attack 10ms

This should make you smile. haha Keep in mind that I am running the axe through an art sla2 poweramp, with cabs sims off and poweramp sims on, through a Mesa 4x12 with v30's. Also this is with v9.0 firmware. All other parameters(the ones not listed) are left to factory default. This should give you a pretty good starting point on how to run a comp for high gain use. Well anyways, lemme know what you think of the patch.


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## 8string (Jan 13, 2010)

if only i had an axe fx


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## xBOBxSAGETx (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you so much for this thread i wanted to know the exact thing. Im grabbing these asap


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## DethRay (Feb 14, 2011)

I've got one coming in a couple weeks, I'm gonna try doing, Keeley, TS-9, and ISP to see how that works first. I'm not a big fan of the Boss noise gate. If I need another I might just use an ISP


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## eaeolian (Feb 14, 2011)

bulb said:


> hehe nolly hit the nail on the head
> yeah all pedals are in front of the amp
> keep in mind guys, i kinda designed my rig to be as undynamic as possiboo but only because that works for me, so perhaps 2 gates and/or a compressor in front wouldnt benefit you guys for your personal applications.



I would never be able to get a note out of your setup, most likely.


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## Damo707 (Feb 14, 2011)

on my line 6 head i run a compressor (the built in one) to beef up my distorted patches i also run the built in gate hard too. sounds great for the tight rhythm tones. i havent tried it with a real amp tho..


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## Guamskyy (Feb 15, 2011)

Well I don't have a keeley compressor but I do have a mxr dyna comp, and it gets the job done.

The way I have my compressor set up is that I have it in the fx loop along with my NS-2 with the X Connection. The fx send plugs into the compressor's input, and the output of the compressor plugs into the NS-2's return. The reason why I did this because the dyna comp would color the tone quite a bunch, so I tried to find a way to use it but not have as much tone change.

My signal path is = Guitar--->NS-2's input---->NS-2's send---->DL To-1---->Amp

In the fx loop = FX Send----->Dyna Comp---->NS-2's return


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