# My quest for 280



## Maniacal (Jul 8, 2009)

my lessons at school hardly ever turn up so i have decided to do something useful while i sit here.

I will be updating this thread each week with my progress as i try to get to 280 16ths. A bit pointless but if you had to teach back in back 3 times every day, you would understand.

Dont buy a nokia n97, they are shit. Thia phone is going back today.


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 8, 2009)

Is this going to be 208 bpm just tremolo picking, or is there going to be a specific lick or pattern you'll be using?


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## 777 (Jul 8, 2009)

Flight of the bumble bee is his thing

Where can i grab a tab for that btw?


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## Maniacal (Jul 8, 2009)

Not flight of the bumblebee, i am pretty sick of playing that. i could also never play that at 280. 

i will be playing riffs/4nps general shredding at 280. 

maybe i will think of a piece to play but i mainly want to be able to do it so i can play slower tempos 220/240 etc with comfort. 

i hate the fact that if i want to play 240 i need to sit with my guitar for an hour. i want to just be able to pick it up at feel in control at those tempos. 

i have the tab for it somewhere, give me your email addy and at some point i will send you the gp5



distressed_romeo said:


> Is this going to be 208 bpm just tremolo picking, or is there going to be a specific lick or pattern you'll be using?



right now i would be really happy if i could just pick an open string at that speed. accenting every 8 gets seriously hard for me past 245.. and to be relaxed at the same time is currently out of the question


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## troyguitar (Jul 8, 2009)

You playing in a DragonForce tribute band sometime soon? 

I'll be impressed if you can pull off playing anything decent at 280. I've never tried going anywhere near there myself.


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## theshred201 (Jul 8, 2009)

Just saying, 16ths at 280 is 18.67 notes per second. To my knowledge, there has only been one guitarist who could consistently alternate pick CLEANLY at those speeds. That was Shawn Lane. Also, I believe Guthrie Govan is rumored to be able to reach those speeds, but most of his actual recorded playing is slower. If you do get that fast, I will be thoroughly impressed, and good luck. I just felt like pointing out that 16ths at 280 is REALLY fast.


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## scottro202 (Jul 8, 2009)

I can play whole notes at 280, do I win? 

on a serious note, good luck man!! you'd better post some clips, so we can, ya know... verify


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## Maniacal (Jul 9, 2009)

I can do bursts at 280 on a good day, but actually playing at that speed is ridiculously hard.

Lets just hope my students keep failing to turn up for lessons so I can practice more.


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## OrsusMetal (Jul 9, 2009)

Setup a live feed for us whenever you teach then! So that way we can see this practice time of yours.  

But I would really, really like to see that.


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## Maniacal (Jul 12, 2009)

So far I have managed 280ish but played as 16th note triplets at 187bpm. I can only do this for 12 note bursts. 

I am doing 16ths on 1 day and triplets the next. 

The 3nps per string stuff got to 170 but after that its just impossible to change strings every 3 notes at that tempo... for me anyway 

I actually have time again today, so will be able to practice guitar again. I will video some of it if I do well.


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## Daiephir (Jul 13, 2009)

I was wondering, what is your exercices for improving? Cause, I want to be able to reach those kind of speeds to be clean and comfortable at 240. My guess would be 3 beats of 4 16ths at a given speed and last beat a sextuplet, then play that until comfortable and raise speed after.


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## Maniacal (Jul 13, 2009)

I try to mix it up. 

Some days I am doing open strings with 8th notes and 16th note bursts. Other days I play triplets to 16th note triplets.... I do these purely with open strings to begin with. 

Then I play the standard 3NPS shreddy stuff, 4NPS scales, technical riffs. 

I also try and work on downstroked power chords. 

Some days (like today) I do nothing because my arms are exhausted from drumming.

Usually I can get to 240 quite easily after 20 minutes of playing. But as the tempo gets higher I have to reduce the length of the bursts. Right now I can do 280 as 16ths for 16 notes. Then I go back to 8th notes. I am still way off being relaxed at this tempo and actually applying it. 

However one advantage is that when I go back down to 240 I find it quite easy to do. I am working on "the art of picking" main exercise and can nearly play the whole thing at 240. 

I would not have been able to do this without working on the speed stuff first. 

Apologies for the shit explanation, I am exhausted right now....

I will actually write out my routine here at some point. I am documenting my progress on video too so that will go on youtube eventually.


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## Maniacal (Jul 21, 2009)

Going well at the moment. Was playing on a friends Telecaster earlier and managed to get to 280 16ths for about 5 seconds.... which is a fucking long time at that speed. I actually found it easier on a Tele because the strings are tighter than on my BM. 

I am currently working on the shawn lane lick that guthrie govan covered. 

This is one of the licks I want to get to 18 notes a second. Legato is there but picking is not quite, yet... going across strings at that speed is just so hard, for me.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 21, 2009)

dude 5 seconds? your fingers must've been burning.

post a vid up


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## Maniacal (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah I will. Although annoyingly my editing software is corrupt so I cant put anything up yet. Nice time I am in "the zone" I will record it and put it on youtube.


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## Daiephir (Jul 22, 2009)

Thats awesome, your getting there.


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 22, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> Going well at the moment. Was playing on a friends Telecaster earlier and managed to get to 280 16ths for about 5 seconds.... which is a fucking long time at that speed. I actually found it easier on a Tele because the strings are tighter than on my BM.
> 
> I am currently working on the shawn lane lick that guthrie govan covered.
> 
> This is one of the licks I want to get to 18 notes a second. Legato is there but picking is not quite, yet... going across strings at that speed is just so hard, for me.



Nice one fella - which lick are you referring to btw? 

Looking forward to seeing a nice video upload to stuff that Della Vega dude


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

There is no way I will be playing FOTB at 370 anytime soon. I actually dont like the way he plays anyway, I much prefer Cooleys technique. 

I am referring to lick 3B


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 22, 2009)

Ah, you don't need to play it at 370 - you pick every note and he doesn't 

Nice choice on the lick btw.


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

Its a good lick to practice for timing as well. Once I get that bad boy at 180 its time to get the pipe n'slippers and join an Oasis cover band.


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## Excalibur (Jul 22, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> Going well at the moment. Was playing on a friends Telecaster earlier and managed to get to 280 16ths for about 5 seconds.... which is a fucking long time at that speed. I actually found it easier on a Tele because the strings are tighter than on my BM.
> 
> I am currently working on the shawn lane lick that guthrie govan covered.
> 
> This is one of the licks I want to get to 18 notes a second. Legato is there but picking is not quite, yet... going across strings at that speed is just so hard, for me.


No you didn't.


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

what?


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## Excalibur (Jul 22, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> what?


You didn't play 16ths at 280 BPM for 5 seconds.


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh ok. Whatever makes you feel better.


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## Excalibur (Jul 22, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> Oh ok. Whatever makes you feel better.


I'm just trying to help you to stop being so deluded.

If you have Dyspraxia though, I understand.


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

You have no idea.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 22, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> No you didn't.



we'll find out if he can do it or not when he posts a video, I for one have no reason to doubt him, what's yours?


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## HammerAndSickle (Jul 22, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> You didn't play 16ths at 280 BPM for 5 seconds.



Way to be a condescending douche. Who made you arbiter of what is and isn't possible for someone else? Someone whose abilities, experiences, and resources you have no idea of?

It's not like it's unheard of. Some of the better players in history have been clocked around that point. So what you're saying is you either don't believe the science behind it (understandable) or you place legendary players on a pedestal as "gods". They're human too, why in the world can Buckethead do it but Maniacal not?

I'm not gonna neg rep you because all it does is start whining over e-points, but consider it in the same fashion. Posts like that are neither informative nor relevant to the topic at hand and merely illustrate some personal failings of your own.


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## ShadyDavey (Jul 22, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> I'm just trying to help you to stop being so deluded.
> 
> If you have Dyspraxia though, I understand.



Ok, 16ths at 280 is _fucking fast _but why doubt the dude? He's prepared to put up a video of him playing the lick at that tempo so in my book at least he isn't claiming anything he can't prove.....and in doing so he knows that people are going to scrutinise it carefully.

I've talked to the man a couple of times and he's always been nothing but sincere and helpful - he's never once given me any reason to put him in the same category as those bullshit "World Record" shredders on YouTube.


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## Excalibur (Jul 22, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Ok, 16ths at 280 is _fucking fast _but why doubt the dude? He's prepared to put up a video of him playing the lick at that tempo so in my book at least he isn't claiming anything he can't prove.....and in doing so he knows that people are going to scrutinise it carefully.
> 
> I've talked to the man a couple of times and he's always been nothing but sincere and helpful - he's never once given me any reason to put him in the same category as those bullshit "World Record" shredders on YouTube.


Because I've called bullshit before, and this just reeks of it.
I don't doubt that he's a fast player, just not THAT fast.



HammerAndSickle said:


> Way to be a condescending douche. Who made you arbiter of what is and isn't possible for someone else? Someone whose abilities, experiences, and resources you have no idea of?
> 
> It's not like it's unheard of. Some of the better players in history have been clocked around that point. So what you're saying is you either don't believe the science behind it (understandable) or you place legendary players on a pedestal as "gods". They're human too, why in the world can Buckethead do it but Maniacal not?
> 
> I'm not gonna neg rep you because all it does is start whining over e-points, but consider it in the same fashion. Posts like that are neither informative nor relevant to the topic at hand and merely illustrate some personal failings of your own.


Fair enough, I'm just thinking he's overexaggerating a tad.



Scar Symmetry said:


> we'll find out if he can do it or not when he posts a video, I for one have no reason to doubt him, what's yours?


Too many claims like his, is my reason.
Like you said though, we will see


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

I can see why you should doubt it. 

It is going to be really difficult for me to do. I might never be able to play cleanly at 280 but this thread was started as a way for me to motivate myself to get there. I know there are a lot of ridiculous claims, but I havent actually claimed anything yet, I just made a note on here of my progress.

And because I can do bursts at 280 does not mean I have total control at that tempo. It also doesn't mean I can just pick up a guitar and play at 280. 

This will take serious work to actually be comfortable at that tempo. 

And if I don't get there, so what? At least I will be very comfortable playing slower.


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## Excalibur (Jul 22, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> I can see why you should doubt it.
> 
> It is going to be really difficult for me to do. I might never be able to play cleanly at 280 but this thread was started as a way for me to motivate myself to get there. I know there are a lot of ridiculous claims, but I havent actually claimed anything yet, I just made a note on here of my progress.
> 
> ...


I wish you all the best, and I'm sorry if I came across as condescending.

Reading so many speed claims really takes it toll on you


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## Maniacal (Jul 22, 2009)

I know. I am not concerned with other peoples speeds though, being the fastest does not interest me. I just want to see if I can do it, plus it gives me something fun to aim for this summer.


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## S-O (Jul 22, 2009)

Go go go go! 

~16-17 nps is the fastest I can play while staying anywhere near what could be called comfortable. But mostly on repetitive Paul Gilbert style lick, not saying they are bad sounding, just are 'easier' because they are repetitive >.<

I would love, and hope to some day have the freedom in playing that guys like Shawn Lane have. Someday :/

Good luck man!


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## Excalibur (Jul 23, 2009)

Great, here comes the anonymous neg reps again.


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## tbird11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Maniacal said:


> I know. I am not concerned with other peoples speeds though, being the fastest does not interest me. I just want to see if I can do it, plus it gives me something fun to aim for this summer.



good luck man, best wishes, don't sweat the naysayers


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 23, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> Great, here comes the anonymous neg reps again.



read your posts back again.

did you _really_ think you'd get away with posting stuff like without getting some flack for it?

no, of course not.


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## Excalibur (Jul 23, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> read your posts back again.
> 
> did you _really_ think you'd get away with posting stuff like without getting some flack for it?
> 
> no, of course not.


That's not the issue I have with it, I'd prefer if they'd sign it.


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 23, 2009)

Excalibur, it's been explained over and over and over again why the rep system is anonymous. Everything was automatically signed before, as it didn't work, as too many threads just degenerated into repping wars over trivial arguements. Given the amount of rep abuse since the change of management, I'm not suprised the mods aren't willing to change it back. On top of that, maybe re-read Steve and DDDorian's post about rep abuse; they've asked people to stop signing negs just for the above reasons.
If you genuinely feel someone's abusing the system, PM a mod, but given the tone of your posts in this thread, I can't imagine you'll get much sympathy to be perfectly honest.


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## S-O (Jul 23, 2009)

Well, since you came off as a total ass, I assume the rep reflects it.

But then again, you are unlikely to meet anyone you talk to on the interwebz IRL, so it'd be best to shrug it off with a kthnxbai.


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## Excalibur (Jul 23, 2009)

S-O said:


> Well, since you came off as a total ass, I assume the rep reflects it.
> 
> But then again, you are unlikely to meet anyone you talk to on the interwebz IRL, so it'd be best to shrug it off with a kthnxbai.


no u


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## Nick (Jul 23, 2009)

im currently trying to boost my speed a bit as well

i want to be able to go far faster than any of our songs require.

been doing about 40 mins a day of random trem picking patterns my forearm is sore as fuck!


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## S-O (Jul 23, 2009)

Excalibur said:


> no u



kthnxbai.

I guess in my case, I really can not back up any assertion to my skill, as I have no access to camz for the intwerwebz.


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## HumanFuseBen (Aug 7, 2009)

soooo how is the quest coming along?


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## Maniacal (Aug 7, 2009)

I havent done a speed test for a while. I have 260 down quite well now. 280 is still a way off though. 

Rather than post little video clips, I am going to make a longish video in a few months when, hopefully, I have reached my goal.


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## Psychobuddy (Aug 16, 2009)

Hey man good luck, you've inspired me to start working on my speed I've always wanted to prove it to myself that I could play ridiculously fast[with control], I have a friend who learned Flight of the Bumblebee at 200, it was for a talent show, not really relevant but still, anyway good luck again


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## Maniacal (Sep 9, 2009)

I feel I should update:

I went to Germany for 2 weeks and had no time to work on my speed. I just did a little speed workout and got to 270 bursts... which is annoying.

However, I start work next week and as long as students continue to not show up I should have plenty of time to work on getting to 280 by christmas.


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## HumanFuseBen (Sep 18, 2009)

so are pretty much just working with a metronome to achieve these speeds? that is super fucking fast, man.


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## ralphy1976 (Sep 18, 2009)

280 for Xmas sounds like a movie....what kind of?....mmmmm

good luck my friend!!!


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## Maniacal (Sep 18, 2009)

Yeah, I am working with a metronome to get this. 

Reverse barbell curls, drumming and lots of coffee also help. 

The main difficulty I am having right now is accenting every 8... Its OK up about 250, but past that it just gets ridiculous.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 13, 2010)

So... reach 280?


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## drmosh (Jan 14, 2010)

Maniacal said:


> Yeah, I am working with a metronome to get this.
> 
> Reverse barbell curls, drumming and lots of coffee also help.
> 
> The main difficulty I am having right now is accenting every 8... Its OK up about 250, but past that it just gets ridiculous.



Yeah, that one gets me too. I try to do that, Nile style I call it, accenting too.
Doing simpler riffs on one string I can do it at 260 without too much trouble but with something like bumblebee, nope.


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## Maniacal (Jan 14, 2010)

Still just bursts at the moment. To be honest I havent had much time to put for this lately. I can do about 5 seconds of 280, so its nothing to bother recording just yet. 

I havent given up, its just a matter of time.


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## TonalArchitect (Jan 14, 2010)

^ So how long/easily do you want to be able to play at 280 for you to consider your goal accomplished?


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 14, 2010)

I'd be impressed with a 5 second video of 280 to be honest...


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## Maniacal (Jan 14, 2010)

I want to be able to actually apply it musically. 

At the moment its not something I can really use. 

I think if I can do it for 20 seconds and use my left hand with it well, I will be happy.


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## New Age Moron (Jan 27, 2010)

C'mon, give us a video. 5 seconds of musically inapplicable 280 is fine.


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## ShadyDavey (Jan 28, 2010)

New Age Moron said:


> C'mon, give us a video. 5 seconds of musically inapplicable 280 is fine.



Indeed, at least we know it's sheer technicallity rather than a large percentage of YT shredders who would clain musicallity 

5 seconds is a good length of time to be honest - look at how many of the "NPS" clips on UG or whatever are far shorter than that....


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## ShadyDavey (Feb 1, 2010)

I just checked out lick 3b again...it's mad enough at 160 bpm let alone 280....Imma coming down to you to get my picking sorted, that's for sure


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## Harry (Feb 1, 2010)

I know this thread is about 280, but you know what?
Show me 255 bpm (17 notes per second), playing something pretty musical, for a reasonable length of time (maybe 15 seconds or so) and I'll be DAMN impressed and I wont be the only one impressed either.
It may not be 280, but at that point you've exceeded Petrucci and Gilbert speeds AFAIK

The fastest I could ever pick at the peak of my alt picking technique was 240 bpm (back in 2008) and I could only sometimes incorporate that into my soloing while improvising.
My vibrato was absolute dog turd at the time though, so I gave up alt picking for ages to work on vibrato (and lately, rhythm guitar is my main priority) and can't alt pick solos for shit anymore


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## Maniacal (Feb 1, 2010)

Harry said:


> I know this thread is about 280, but you know what?
> Show me 255 bpm (17 notes per second), playing something pretty musical, for a reasonable length of time (maybe 15 seconds or so) and I'll be DAMN impressed and I wont be the only one impressed either.
> It may not be 280, but at that point you've exceeded Petrucci and Gilbert speeds AFAIK
> 
> ...




I dont think 280 would be musical at all. This "quest" started just because I teach at a school and the kids rarely turn up for lessons so I was able to devote time to practice and so wanted to set myself a goal. 

When/if I do get comfortable at 280 its not the kind of thing I would use all the time, but it would mean I could probably pick up a guitar and play tightly at 240 within a few minutes of playing... rather than having to warm up for 30 minutes first. 

Also just because I want to get that fast doesnt mean I can only play fast. I am a jazz guy mainly and spend most of my time on guitar improvising or working through my Real Book. I know you probably werent attacking me, but I thought I should make it clear I am not all about the shred.


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## Harry (Feb 2, 2010)

Oh no, no accusations going on there, I'm honestly just really curious to see anyone who isn't Shawn Lane successfully pick 18 nps
Lane could get it sound musical because he was able to play complex, wider intervalic patterns beyond the capabilities of mortal men
Hell, not even Lane himself was all about shred. All the best virtuoso guitarists evolve past the point of just playing fast and become real musicians.
A real musician would not simply just play fast, and hell, you're a jazz guy, you could make far more musical statements with your playing than I could, since I imagine you know far more theory than me


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## TonalArchitect (Feb 4, 2010)

I don't see how something playing at 280 is automatically unmusical. Use it for certain passages or a tremolo section or crazy pedal point-y stuff (e.g. 77777877779777787776787....), but why would it be unable to be musical? Buddy Rich's single stroke rolls (I know, drumming and not guitar) got to a bit above 20 notes-per-second, but that doesn't make it unmusical. 

The real decision, of course, is what someone plays and in what context.


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## Scar Symmetry (Feb 4, 2010)

'Unmusical' sounds like an excuse for 'I can't do it' to me


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## S-O (Feb 4, 2010)

Maniacal said:


> When/if I do get comfortable at 280 its not the kind of thing I would use all the time, but it would mean I could probably pick up a guitar and play tightly at 240 within a few minutes of playing...* rather than having to warm up for 30 minutes first.*



This.

I can shred, I know it. But getting warmed up takes so much time for me to get all the way up to my top speeds, which is about 16ths at 240. Though I usually do triplet based ones for 3 nps stuff, so eighth note triplets at 160ish, just for ease of counting, but I do 16th/32nd stuff to work on subdivision. I also use economy picking, so I really need to work on strict alt picking, the masters of it pick SO clean.

I can get up to ~170 while still being in the realm of clean, which is ~255 with 16ths, so if you can do decent length bursts at 280, that is still amazing. That's at and beyond the 18 notes per seconds range.

But, sweeping gets me XD I can do it, but I can not do the crazy Jason Becker long strings of arps yet. Dunno why.

The real question is, when is the next book coming out


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## Maniacal (Feb 5, 2010)

S-O said:


> This.
> 
> I can shred, I know it. But getting warmed up takes so much time for me to get all the way up to my top speeds, which is about 16ths at 240. Though I usually do triplet based ones for 3 nps stuff, so eighth note triplets at 160ish, just for ease of counting, but I do 16th/32nd stuff to work on subdivision. I also use economy picking, so I really need to work on strict alt picking, the masters of it pick SO clean.
> 
> ...




The book will be out this year, but probably not for a while. I am far too busy at the moment to shoot the videos for the DVD. I know I said February, but unfortunately life gets in the way. 

Scar- Yes I am sure some people can play beautiful musical phrases at 280, but I cant. For me it will never be musical, it will be the peak of my physical limitations. But if it helps me play 250 in my sleep, good.


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## alexisalicia (Feb 7, 2010)

still no video!!!!!


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## Excalibur (Jan 21, 2011)

I had to bump this to say that I am disappoint.


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## Maniacal (Jan 21, 2011)

I guess life got in the way. I feel like I have let people down. This year I will record some videos, I promise.


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## Excalibur (Jan 21, 2011)

Maniacal said:


> I guess life got in the way. I feel like I have let people down. This year I will record some videos, I promise.



I wish you the best of luck, looking back at some of my comments, they should've been more supportive.

Sorry about that.


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## Maniacal (Jan 21, 2011)

I don't concern myself with the thoughts of others. I started this thread to keep myself aimed at my goal, I am glad you reminded me of it.


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## Excalibur (Jan 21, 2011)

Maniacal said:


> I don't concern myself with the thoughts of others. I started this thread to keep myself aimed at my goal, I am glad you reminded me of it.



That's what I do, I make people do the things they don't want to do, to become the person they want to be


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## SirMyghin (Jan 21, 2011)

What kind of practice regiment you using here to do this? I typically do speed work up to about 180, running scales and scale patterns etc, you just doing that but much faster? Curious as I always look for more exercises to add that might target other points.

Edit: As far as the drumming and lifting part, I don't need the lifting (and have good forearms from deadlifting) and don't have access to drumming.


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## ShadyDavey (Jan 22, 2011)

(get the book, it's out already!)

Lots of physical hard work and repetition. Sure there are supplementary/complementary exercises you can also do to assist in the development but there's no substitute for sitting there with a metronome and your guitar.....no secrets, just hard work and dedication. 

At the end of the day some people are wired differently and no amount of work will make 280 a realistic goal for them even for a burst....whereas some (Mr Lane) just had phenomenal speed and a bare minimum of practice after a certain point - that's life


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## SirMyghin (Jan 22, 2011)

What book might that be? and 280 is not something I look for, 210 solid consistent playing would be good for me. I don't think that whole 'wired up to do it' holds any sway though. It is an excuse to not put the work in to achieve your goal.


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