# ESP JAPAN & USA: General Info Thread



## Ikke (Jul 25, 2017)

Brought to you by the ESP Community, The Fellowship of the String!

*General*

*GQ1) Why did you make this thread?*

GA1) Because knowledge is power! Many people have questions about these two brands specifically. There’s a lot of information out there but much of it seems to not be aggregated. So, I just thought this would help. That and ESP has been super inconsistent of the years, so clarification in some areas is probably useful. Ultimately, all the information in this thread is just aimed at helping consumers make more informed purchases. So, please feel free to contribute (facts, criticisms, corrections, updates, etc.).

*GQ2) What if I have more questions that aren’t answered here?*

GA1) Best advice would be to contact ESP directly or through you’re dealer, as ESP will provide the most accurate answer to your inquiry. However, we also have two main ESP communities here on SSO:

ESP Owners Club: http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/esp-owners-club-show-us-your-esps.187643/

ESP Custom Shop Club: http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/esp-custom-club.313510/

I’m sure someone from either of those groups can be helpful to you. And you can always post in this thread or DM (me or whoever else).

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*ESP Japan*

Current Production Models: http://espguitars.co.jp/original/

Through Dealer: Anything you want: old model*, new model, slight variation on an existing model, new shape entirely, etc.

*JQ1) Is ESP Japan a Custom Shop?*

JA1) Yes. ESP Japan is actually multiple custom shops and includes: Kiso, Sado, Takada, Technical House, & Craft House. You can see a breakdown of what each shop does here: http://www.guitarscollector.com/esp-serial-numbers.html

*JQ2) *Will ESP Japan make whatever I want?**

JA2) Mostly. They won’t make you a guitar with a lawsuit headstock or EXP/MX. Besides those yes, they will make literally whatever you want (even an acoustic!). Average times for completion of a custom order is 8 to 12 months. Times may vary (my custom took 13 months to get to me).

*JQ3) But I don’t see an option on the custom order form to do this/request that?*

JA3) That doesn’t matter. You can either write what you want in the area of concern, or you can put it in the special instructions. For example, the English custom order form, there is no option for a Beveled Archtop carve. No problem! Just write Beveled Archtop in the area where the drop down menu is! Tell ESP exactly what you want and they will accommodate the best they can.

*JQ4) Are all ESP’s that are “Made In Japan” made in the Custom Shop?*

JA4) No. The Order Made (Customs), Original & Exhibition Original Series, Navigator, & Signature/Artist Series are made in the Custom Shops. The now discontinued Standard Series was not made in the Custom Shop.

*JQ5) How do I know if a certain model was made in the Custom Shop?*

Easiest Ways

Current Production Stamps: Golden World Stamp with the following writing, “ESP CUSTOM”, “ESP ORIGINAL SERIES”, “ESP SIGNATURE SERIES”













ESP Original



__ Ikke
__ Jul 25, 2017






Old Production Stamps*: “ESP CUSTOM SHOP”













ESP Custom Shop Old



__ Ikke
__ Jul 25, 2017






***Older production Original Series Guitars had no stamp indication. This is how you knew it was an Original Series. Can still be identified by the Serial though.***

Serial Number: CH, CS, K, N, S, T, TH (read Serial Info here: http://www.guitarscollector.com/esp-serial-numbers.html)













ESP Original Old



__ Ikke
__ Jul 25, 2017






Hard Way: Research

*JQ6) My guitar says, “ESP CUSTOM GUITARS” on the back. Is it from the Custom Shop?*

JA6) Not necessarily.

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*ESP USA*

Current Production Models: http://www.espguitars.com/espusa

Through Dealer: M-I (NTB), Horizon

*UQ1) Is ESP USA a Custom Shop?* 

UA1) No. ESP USA is not a Custom Shop. ESP Japan’s shops are the only ESP Custom Shops. At the moment, there is only one ESP USA shop and it is located in Hollywood, California, United States.

*UQ2) Will ESP USA make whatever I want?*

UA2) No. See UA1. Additionally, the guitars are made on an "as ordered basis". This means that if a model is out of production, you might have a tough time getting ESP USA to make it again. But, try going through you're dealer to see if something can be negotiated. Both an M-I NTB (was never a production model) and Horizon (was discontinued and then brought back on a "special order" basis) have been special-ordered before. Average lead time for a USA model is 6 months. Times may vary.

*UQ3) How do USA guitars differ from the Japan guitars?*

UA3) From a quality standpoint, they’re very similar, if not the same from all the hearsay. From a manufacturing standpoint, ESP Japan’s guitars are entirely handmade, from beginning to end. ESP USA guitar bodies are CNC’d and then handcrafted afterwards.













ESP USA



__ Ikke
__ Jul 25, 2017






*UQ4) The ESP USA Configurator has limited options/won’t allow for the same options as Japan, doesn’t have ESP Japan models, etc. What gives?*

UA4) See UA1. That's being said, things are always being updated and expanded upon. Give it some time.

*UQ5) There used to be ESP guitars that said, "USA Custom". Is the current ESP USA related to those?*

UA6) No.


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## electriceye (Jul 25, 2017)

Wait a sec. If USA are half-CNC, why are they almost double the $$ what the Japan-made ESPs are??


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## Ikke (Jul 25, 2017)

electriceye said:


> Wait a sec. If USA are half-CNC, why are they almost double the $$ what the Japan-made ESPs are??



They are not. The Japan models are generally more expensive. Unless you're thinking of the Standard Series, which weren't made in the CS.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 25, 2017)

This is a fantastic summary, Ikke, thanks for posting it! You should make a ESP archive or something - being such a huge company they've been all over the place in terms of branding and production. As a fellow ESP aficionado I've found it's surprisingly hard to get consolidated information on their more obscure, Eastern hemisphere-only ventures (such as when they made guitar under the label "Seymour Duncan" in the early 2000s - I can hardly find any information regarding that).


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## feraledge (Jul 26, 2017)

I strongly support this thread. A couple things worth noting: 
From 2016 on, ESP Japan serials follow this: 


> *8 DIGITS stamped in the back of the headstock*:
> *BNNNNYYP
> B* = Brand designation prefix:
> *E* - ESP
> ...


My 2016 ESP Horizon Custom is EXXXX162.
It is also the best guitar I've ever played, which I'm reminded of every time I pick it up: 






When it comes to older USA ESPs, there are a couple of different factories and things like that which are worth elaborating on. The 48th Street Customs are the ones I have come across the most, but mine is a 1997 USA custom built by John Gaudesi who is now a Master Builder for Schecter. And it is absolutely top notch.


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## ascl (Jul 26, 2017)

Nice info. One update however is that the Craft House no longer has a work shop. It closed a couple of years back, and they now have a museum instead... except the guitars that are in the museum basically used to be hanging on the wall in the shop (at the back).

They do still have wood samples etc so you can order customs, just no work shop.


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## Sir Ibanez (Jul 26, 2017)

Thanks for info! Helpful.


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## Shoeless_jose (Jul 26, 2017)

Hey more info on what is or isnt allowed with explorers would be rad!!

Great thread btw


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## feraledge (Jul 26, 2017)

Dineley said:


> Hey more info on what is or isnt allowed with explorers would be rad!!
> 
> Great thread btw


Answers subject to change based on location. One thing is for sure, no one is going to publicly post about back channels were they to exist.


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## JD27 (Jul 26, 2017)

electriceye said:


> Wait a sec. If USA are half-CNC, why are they almost double the $$ what the Japan-made ESPs are??



Because they are not mass produced like the E-II/Standard Series. They are made by a small team, as opposed to a factory line. Hell, they only have one person doing the paint on the whole inventory. They also use higher quality woods. For example, the E-II/Standard Series use maple tops with quilt/flame veneer, the USA series does not.


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## feraledge (Jul 26, 2017)

^ this. Also "half CNC" is not a downside. The woods are higher quality and chosen for the guitar. It's not like you throw anything in a machine and the rest doesn't matter. All the parts after the CNC are what counts. It's basically like cutting with a more high tech template.


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## bnzboy (Jul 26, 2017)

Follow some of these guys on Instagram to see some cool work-in-progress pictures! ESP official IG will usually credit/tag these guys for their work.


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## Ikke (Jul 26, 2017)

Dineley said:


> Hey more info on what is or isnt allowed with explorers would be rad!!
> 
> Great thread btw



*ESP Japan*

*JQ2) *Will ESP Japan make whatever I want?* (ELABORATED/INFO NEEDED)*

JA2) Mostly. They won’t make you a guitar with a lawsuit headstock or EXP/MX. Besides those yes, they will make literally whatever you want (even an acoustic!).

JA2E1) The short version is that ESP cannot sell the MX/EXP, Eclipse I or II, a Lawsuit Blade Headstock guitar (Mirage Deluxe/Custom, Horizon Custom, RR, etc.) in the United States. The key word here is United States, as at least the Eclipse I & II were sold in Europe for a while. 

*However, will ESP not make one of the above "lawsuit" guitars for you, even if you custom order one?*

This is a tough questions to answer. The official comment on the ESP USA website is as follows: http://www.espguitars.com/pages/faq

*"Can I still order the old EXP body shape when ordering a custom ESP?*
The body style of the old EXP was retired and a new body style was introduced in 2000. It is now known as the EX model. You may ONLY order the new EX body style - we cannot produce the old EXP shape."​
That being said, ESP have produced some of them post-EOP outside of the USA. Many of them could have been found in the Edwards line or custom orders. For example, this Edwards E-HR-125 was produced in Japan and sold to Japanese market after EOP of the lawsuit blade headstock (not produced anymore). And so does this Technical House custom shop RR made in 2004.

















DSC_0287



__ Ikke
__ Jul 26, 2017


















DSC_0336



__ Ikke
__ Jul 26, 2017






Also, here take a look at this MX below. Notice anything peculiar in the second picture? Well, you may notice it was made very, very recently. It has: The Golden World "ESP CUSTOM" Stamp & Serial K15 (brush up on your serials using the links above if need be). 

This MX was produced in 2015 long after they ended standard production on them. Secondly, the stamp indicates that it was Custom Ordered (not an Original Series or other custom production model). So maybe it's fake? I personally highly doubt that because 1) it's being sold by Meestursparkle who has a very good track record and reputation for finding super rare guitars. And 2) it just looks absolutely flawless. There's nothing suspicious about it. But hey, I could be wrong.













DSC_0004



__ Ikke
__ Jul 26, 2017


















DSC_0034



__ Ikke
__ Jul 26, 2017






And even more so, the shape (or something very close to the Gibson Explorer) is still currently produced in the Edwards line of guitars. I took this image straight from the ESP website at the time I'm writing this.






JA2I1) So will ESP Japan make you an EXP/MX or other lawsuit model? I honestly have no clue. I have personally never tried. I don't know if anyone has ever tried actually. If there's an easy avenue towards getting one, it's custom ordering one. If that's not it, then like Feral said, no one seems to be sharing how they got a new one post EOP. The first test would be someone stateside (or maybe just anywhere other than Japan) filling out a custom order form, requesting a quote on one, and seeing what ESP says. But, my guess, and maybe many other's guess, is that they will say no to all lawsuit requests. Doesn't hurt to ask though.


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## Ikke (Jul 26, 2017)

Thanks for positive feedback and help everyone!


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## Flamedmaple (Jul 30, 2017)

Ikke said:


> From a manufacturing standpoint, ESP Japan’s guitars are entirely handmade, from beginning to end. ESP USA guitar bodies are CNC’d and then handcrafted afterwards.


Interesting. Aren't the Japan original series also CNC'd? Do they really hand cut all the body shapes, even those that are not order made?


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## possumkiller (Jul 30, 2017)

Ikke said:


> And so does this Technical House custom shop RR made in 2004.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My cousin is the proud owner of this one. He likes it but he says it has super tiny vintage size frets. Also the body outline doesn't match a Jackson RR or an ESP SV shape so getting a hard case that fits is going to be expensive.


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## Ikke (Jul 30, 2017)

Flamedmaple said:


> Interesting. Aren't the Japan original series also CNC'd? Do they really hand cut all the body shapes, even those that are not order made?



As far as I know, have read, and have seen, the Original Series is also made by hand like all of the order made ones.


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## feraledge (Jul 30, 2017)

Flamedmaple said:


> Interesting. Aren't the Japan original series also CNC'd? Do they really hand cut all the body shapes, even those that are not order made?



Japan Custom shop uses CNC as well.


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## Blitzie (Jul 31, 2017)

I would never be able to afford one but I am genuinely disappointed that I can't buy myself my Holy Grail; Hetfield explorer in vintage white.


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## Ikke (Jul 31, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Japan Custom shop uses CNC as well.




I guess maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, so my bad. My assumption when he asked the question was whether they CNC'd the body shape, as that's what I was referring to in my post. I know that ESP Japan will CNC some things, but that seems to be mostly/only some extremely intricate patterns (stuff that will difficult/dangerous to manually maneuver on a pin router), but not the body itself nor the curves/contours on the body. 

Before I wrote what I wrote, I tried watch every ESP video I could find, including the one you're linking. And, if you notice in the video, there is no part, at least that I saw, where they are CNCing the shape of the body. It looks to only be the intricate pattern on the Stream body top. 

Take a look at this video. You can see that he is 

Cutting the FRX body shape by hand (0:18, 0:24)
Cutting Arrow holes by hand (0:40)
Cutting the Stream body and contours by hand (0:30, 0:54, 0:58)









ESP Guitars: 2016 Custom Shop/Exhibition Limted - YouTube



__ Ikke
__ Jul 31, 2017



Each year, the master luthiers of the ESP Custom Shop in Tokyo, Japan, are given free reign to...






Hopefully this is more clear as to what I meant!


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## Fathand (Jul 31, 2017)

Didn't Jesper Strömblad have a lawsuit EXP ESP (before his EX sig) during his In Flames days, with just one pickup in the bridge. I could swear I've seen a pic of him with it but google is showing me only Gibsons and the newer EX sig..


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## Flamedmaple (Jul 31, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Japan Custom shop uses CNC as well.



Thanks. Yeah they should be using that for some parts atleast. But apparently no CNC for the body shapes then, according to the second video here?
By the way, does any of the ESP facilities use PLEK technology?


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## Ikke (Jul 31, 2017)

Flamedmaple said:


> Thanks. Yeah they should be using that for some parts atleast. But apparently no CNC for the body shapes then, according to the second video here?
> By the way, does any of the ESP facilities use PLEK technology?



Yeah that was my bad. I just assumed people would understand that I was just talking about the body. Sorry for not being clear. I’ll update with another post later today. 

That being said, now that you’ve seen both vids, none of the Original Series models have anything intricate going on like the Exhibition models in those videos. So, in reference to your original question, the Original Series is completely done by hand. 

Also, I’m not sure if they use PLEK tech.


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## feraledge (Jul 31, 2017)

That video I posted showed body work being done with CNC, rough cuts for top carves on Eclipse. I have no beef with that at all. Might just go person by person too. The sanding and all the major work is done by hand. When they do out there shapes it's by hand, but the intricate cutting is a lot of CNC work mixed in.
There's a lot of shots of fret work, didn't appear to be PLEK in use. Might just not be seeing it, but the Custom shop knows their way around a fret board. Best fret ends in the business.


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## Flamedmaple (Jul 31, 2017)

Ikke said:


> Yeah that was my bad. I just assumed people would understand that I was just talking about the body. Sorry for not being clear. I’ll update with another post later today.
> 
> That being said, now that you’ve seen both vids, none of the Original Series models have anything intricate going on like the Exhibition models in those videos. So, in reference to your original question, the Original Series is completely done by hand.
> 
> Also, I’m not sure if they use PLEK tech.


No problems. I was just curious to know what type of build process my own ESP has gone through. Very cool that it's actually hand made (in its true meaning!) Many high end manufacturers use the term hand crafting when they in fact CNC alot of the parts. I don't question their use of that term since they still do all the clever work by hand. It's just very interesting to hear that ESP actually does it from scratch so to speak.


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## possumkiller (Jul 31, 2017)

I think since my Gibson custom order 70s Flying V went bad I will see if ESP will do a vintage modern take on it. Think the same construction and overall looks as a 70s Flying V but more pointy


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## possumkiller (Jul 31, 2017)

Like this but black cherry finish. No binding. Chrome hardware with an EMG Het set. Vintage style Kluson tuners and witch hat knobs. White plastics with further tweaking to the pickguard and headstock design.


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## feraledge (Jul 31, 2017)

possumkiller said:


> View attachment 55311
> 
> Like this but black cherry finish. No binding. Chrome hardware with an EMG Het set. Vintage style Kluson tuners and witch hat knobs. White plastics with further tweaking to the pickguard and headstock design.


Agreed on the tweaks for the pickguard and headstock design, otherwise would be sick. I'm all for more custom ESPs. I also think the pricing might not be too far off from what you were getting charged by Gibson.


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## Element0s (Jul 31, 2017)

From a guy who made two ESP threads in a month a while back, cheers for this thread and the info!


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## Flamedmaple (Aug 1, 2017)

I don't know if there are any strat guys here. But i just need to share this one that popped up on Isihibashi's international branch.
Their japanese strats are, atleast for me, just gorgeous.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Aug 1, 2017)

I've had my eye on a Snapper CTM-24 FR for a long time. Just waiting for the right one to pop up!

EDIT: Speak of the devil and he shall appear; I've seen this one float around Yahoo Auctions, never selling though. Interesting looking quilt!


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## Flamedmaple (Aug 2, 2017)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I've had my eye on a Snapper CTM-24 FR for a long time. Just waiting for the right one to pop up!
> 
> EDIT: Speak of the devil and he shall appear; I've seen this one float around Yahoo Auctions, never selling though. Interesting looking quilt!


Very beautiful indeed. They have some very cool finishes for the CTM-models, and this is one of the nicer ones. I was super close to get hold of a CTM in Aquamarine just a few months ago, but it got sold right in front of my eyes. Such a shame lol. The Snapper is probably the best guitar i've ever played so far. I bought an AS-Burner a year ago and it's just lovely to play and look at.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Aug 2, 2017)

Aqua Marine is my favorite finish on them! (Not counting the super nice ones I've seen at BIG BOSS, like Indigo Blue). Damn shame it's harder to find than most. Did you see it locally or online somewhere?


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## Flamedmaple (Aug 3, 2017)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Aqua Marine is my favorite finish on them! (Not counting the super nice ones I've seen at BIG BOSS, like Indigo Blue). Damn shame it's harder to find than most. Did you see it locally or online somewhere?


I agree. Too bad Big Boss doesn't ship internationally. 
It was also on Ishibashi website. I emailed them and placed my order, and while waiting for the reply (because of time difference to Japan), it got sold. 
So this is what i could have owned by now... But "kapoof!".. Super unfortunate.


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## Ikke (Aug 10, 2017)

Hey guys so I did a super minor experiment lol. This is a minor developing update.

I tried to get a quote on a cockstock USA Horizon through my dealer. Within a few hours my dealer came back saying their ESP rep said no, they will not make it. I’m still confirming whether it just the cockstock or blade too.

Cheers!

Just as added info, I asked for all stock specs. Nothing that would even suggest Custom Shop. Just stuff straight from the configurator.


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## Womb raider (Aug 10, 2017)

Ikke said:


> Hey guys so I did a super minor experiment lol. This is a minor developing update.
> 
> I tried to get a quote on a cockstock USA Horizon through my dealer. Within a few hours my dealer came back saying their ESP rep said no, they will not make it. I’m still confirming whether it just the cockstock or blade too.
> 
> ...



I tried to get one as well lol. Horizon 2 though, with Oasis Green in a flame top. Came back negative but said they are planning to offer it in the future, so i'm not sure what that means.


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## Ikke (Aug 10, 2017)

Womb raider said:


> I tried to get one as well lol. Horizon 2 though, with Oasis Green in a flame top. Came back negative but said they are planning to offer it in the future, so i'm not sure what that means.



So, so far 0/2 lol. I assume the Horizon II would be more likely because they literally just made one lol.


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## Womb raider (Aug 10, 2017)

Ikke said:


> So, so far 0/2 lol. I assume the Horizon II would be more likely because they literally just made one lol.


Yea, I think the color was the hang up. Was hoping to get something like a one-off.


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## feraledge (Aug 10, 2017)

Not offering Horizons is wicked bonkers.


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## Ikke (Aug 10, 2017)

Womb raider said:


> Yea, I think the color was the hang up. Was hoping to get something like a one-off.



Oh you were trying to get that solid color but transparent. I read emerald green lol. I was gonna try get one of the solid pearl colors with natural binding but I assumed they would say no so I didn’t try.


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## Ikke (Aug 10, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Not offering Horizons is wicked bonkers.



Especially since they are definitely gonna upcharge and make more money.


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## Ikke (Aug 10, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Not offering Horizons is wicked bonkers.



Especially since they are definitely gonna upcharge and make more money.


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## JD27 (Aug 10, 2017)

Maybe they figured they could build the USA brand more by offering the M's and TE's since they tend to run much less due to the flat tops and bolt-on necks. They could have gone old school and offered the Horizon's with bolt-on necks too.


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## madrigal77 (Aug 10, 2017)

*"JQ2) *Will ESP Japan make whatever I want?**

JA2) Mostly. They won’t make you a guitar with a lawsuit headstock or EXP/MX. Besides those yes, they will make literally whatever you want (even an acoustic!). Average times for completion of a custom order is 8 to 12 months. Times may vary (my custom took 13 months to get to me)."

They still make them in limited quantities in Japan. I was at the custom shop in Osaka in January and they had a brand new MX250 for sale. They're not cheap though. It was going for $6k Canadian.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Aug 10, 2017)

I assume that ESP USA will start offering Horizon's soon (as the evidence points to). Honestly I really like the hard tail (hipshot) M series guitars, they look phenomenal and seem to offer something you don't see much of in the regular LTD, EII, and ESP line offered to Western countries. 
I'd kill for a hard tail M ESP USA in satin purpleburst.


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## mehegama (Feb 15, 2019)

You can get "lawsuit" shapes if you can somehow get the order as a local Japanese order and somehow get someone ship it to you or go there and pick it up physically.


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

I wound up on this thread from a google search and reread it again. I felt it was just worth updating with some relevant new info regarding lawsuit shapes. ESP will no longer build the MX series guitars, not even domestically. They will not do the Jackson-style "lawsuit" headstocks (the "concorde" shape in JP ESP catalog option speak), not even domestically. This is the official word from discussions with staff at both BigBoss and Craft House.


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> I wound up on this thread from a google search and reread it again. I felt it was just worth updating with some relevant new info regarding lawsuit shapes. ESP will no longer build the MX series guitars, not even domestically. They will not do the Jackson-style "lawsuit" headstocks (the "concorde" shape in JP ESP catalog option speak), not even domestically. This is the official word from discussions with staff at both BigBoss and Craft House.



Seems like they're becoming more skittish towards Gibson and FMIC.

I wonder if those two are gearing up to get even more serious about going after other companies and ESP caught wind of it?


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

Kyle Jordan said:


> Seems like they're becoming more skittish towards Gibson and FMIC.
> 
> I wonder if those two are gearing up to get even more serious about going after other companies and ESP caught wind of it?



They are definitely becoming more skittish towards FMIC/Jackson. They stated the Jackson acquisition makes it tougher since Fender is more aggressive in pursing IP stuff internationally.


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## budda (Dec 20, 2021)

Now I want to find a Navigator eclipse...


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## soul_lip_mike (Dec 20, 2021)

Will the Japanese custom shop build you a Ouija?


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 20, 2021)

I basically said that ESP is being more cautious around the big American manufacturers in the ESP 2022 thread and the collective response was "nuh uh."


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I basically said that ESP is being more cautious around the big American manufacturers in the ESP 2022 thread and the collective response was "nuh uh."



ESP is one of those brands where there's just a ridiculous amount of misinformation that gets parroted around. 

I'm on one of those ESP FB groups... my god... what is and isn't custom shop, how to read the serial numbers, who made what, how many people make each guitar, what tools they use to make each guitar, what they'll do, what they won't do. Pretty sure I read some post of someone getting it wrong for every one of these, every single week. And it's supposed to be a group of fans lol


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> ESP is one of those brands where there's just a ridiculous amount of misinformation that gets parroted around.
> 
> I'm on one of those ESP FB groups... my god... what is and isn't custom shop, how to read the serial numbers, who made what, how many people make each guitar, what tools they use to make each guitar, what they'll do, what they won't do. Pretty sure I read some post of someone getting it wrong for every one of these, every single week. And it's supposed to be a group of fans lol



I feel that ESP somewhat fosters this situation as they're just so opaque outside of Japan, and each region outside is run almost independently. 

I'm no ESP expert, but I've followed them for decades and still talk to some of the big USA dealers fairly regularly.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Dec 20, 2021)

Heartbroken that they are no longer doing Concorde headstocks. 

I was honestly never going to lay down the cash for one personally but I think its just prime aesthetic goodness.


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## mehegama (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> I wound up on this thread from a google search and reread it again. I felt it was just worth updating with some relevant new info regarding lawsuit shapes. ESP will no longer build the MX series guitars, not even domestically. They will not do the Jackson-style "lawsuit" headstocks (the "concorde" shape in JP ESP catalog option speak), not even domestically. This is the official word from discussions with staff at both BigBoss and Craft House.


Is this cross checked?? (about not ever making the Jackson style headstock - not even for a Japanese order) ??


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

mehegama said:


> Is this cross checked?? (about not ever making the Jackson style headstock - not even for a Japanese order) ??



As I said in the post, it is cross checked, with numerous ESP staff, at both crafthouse and BigBoss.



Ataraxia2320 said:


> Heartbroken that they are no longer doing Concorde headstocks.
> 
> I was honestly never going to lay down the cash for one personally but I think its just prime aesthetic goodness.



Yea, this is why I'm just having the old ones refinished/reworked to more modern specs. Costing a fortune though.


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## mehegama (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> As I said in the post, it is cross checked, with numerous ESP staff, at both crafthouse and BigBoss.


Shame... next best option on this is probably a refinish of an existing "lawsuit" guitar by the custom shop, but that s tricky too.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 20, 2021)

@narad Reworking/refinishing concorde Horizons is doing God's work

Mark Furtner's done that to an obscene amount of vintage ESPs. He's got some great relations with some staff, as I recall. Dude has possibly one of the nicest vintage ESP collections around.


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @narad Reworking/refinishing concorde Horizons is doing God's work
> 
> Mark Furtner's done that to an obscene amount of vintage ESPs. He's got some great relations with some staff, as I recall. Dude has possibly one of the nicest vintage ESP collections around.



Mark is my hero. Of course, it sounds like he gets to pay endorsement prices for that work. ESP has to be the most expensive refinishing option out there, at least for the ones I've done so far. Literally Nik Huber gave me a better quote on refinishing one of his guitars.

But ya, beyond cost, refinishing with them is pretty straightforward. They have some weird rules on refinishing artist/signature stuff though, that I'm not sure I've ever heard mentioned or outlined anywhere on the internet.


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## mehegama (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> Mark is my hero. Of course, it sounds like he gets to pay endorsement prices for that work. ESP has to be the most expensive refinishing option out there, at least for the ones I've done so far. Literally Nik Huber gave me a better quote on refinishing one of his guitars.
> 
> But ya, beyond cost, refinishing with them is pretty straightforward. They have some weird rules on refinishing artist/signature stuff though, that I'm not sure I've ever heard mentioned or outlined anywhere on the internet.


Yep , i had Mark in mind as well. Is there an idea of the cost? Is it near an original? say 4 grand? Or i m exaggerating it?


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

mehegama said:


> Yep , i had Mark in mind as well. Is there an idea of the cost? Is it near an original? say 4 grand? Or i m exaggerating it?



It depends a lot on the exact guitar (state of finish and binding), and what finish you're doing, but mine is 280,000Y for liquid metal pink refinish and SS refret. So in total, about the same as on original, and I still hav janky old hardware. Curious to see if the result reflects the price, but the other issue is that they're quite slow. There were some unexpected delays, but I think it'll be over a year for this one.


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## mehegama (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> It depends a lot on the exact guitar (state of finish and binding), and what finish you're doing, but mine is 280,000Y for liquid metal pink refinish and SS refret. So in total, about the same as on original, and I still hav janky old hardware. Curious to see if the result reflects the price, but the other issue is that they're quite slow. There were some unexpected delays, but I think it'll be over a year for this one.


Yep i was thinking something similar, red liquid metal, and a possible SS refret. Now 280.000 which is about 2.5 grand usd is pretty steep i would say. add the original guitar and you are in an original series territory.
Are you doing your latest magenta one?


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## narad (Dec 20, 2021)

mehegama said:


> Yep i was thinking something similar, red liquid metal, and a possible SS refret. Now 280.000 which is about 2.5 grand usd is pretty steep i would say. add the original guitar and you are in an original series territory.



Ya, the red is really nice too. If you haven't seen this, should give you a point of reference:
https://www.guitarsrebellion.com/en...stom-shop-horizon-i-liquid-metal-red-e3261202



mehegama said:


> Yep i was thinking something similar, red liquid metal, and a possible SS refret. Now 280.000 which is about 2.5 grand usd is pretty steep i would say. add the original guitar and you are in an original series territory.
> Are you doing your latest magenta one?



Nah, I'm doing my HSS black one. That one had a pretty beat up finish and a headstock chip. I'm always curious what a guitar with less body work will come out as. My plan right now for the horizons is:

black HSS -> liquid metal pink
black H1 -> kawasaki metallic green or metallic purple or maziora
natural quilt H1 -> fix headstock binding, remove 12th fret inlay, gold hardware
magenta H1 -> leave as is
Stef B7 -> metallic purple or metallic gold + fishmans

Basically as soon as I get the first back, if I'm happy with it, the black one is going in. Hopefully it'll be a good deal less, the frets are pretty decent and the finish and binding is in really good shape.


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## mehegama (Dec 20, 2021)

narad said:


> Ya, the red is really nice too. If you haven't seen this, should give you a point of reference:
> https://www.guitarsrebellion.com/en...stom-shop-horizon-i-liquid-metal-red-e3261202
> 
> 
> ...


sounds amazing but also cost a fortune indeed. That one in guitar rebellion was my reference. Pure perfection.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 21, 2021)

narad said:


> They have some weird rules on refinishing artist/signature stuff though, that I'm not sure I've ever heard mentioned or outlined anywhere on the internet.



He paused, for dramatic effect, before illuminating these mystery rules to the rest of the ESP obsessives...


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## narad (Dec 21, 2021)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> He paused, for dramatic effect, before illuminating these mystery rules to the rest of the ESP obsessives...



lol, Japanese is a funny language when it comes to being precise, so I'm not exactly sure what the rule entails, but something like, if you were to take an ESP Lynch guitar in, they could refinish it, but they couldn't refinish it with the same camo pattern as the usual one in different colors, it would have to be a different camo pattern. And the headstock "cannot change". So when I was like... but I don't want one camo pattern on the body and not on the headstock, they were like, oh, no, it could be the same camo pattern, but the logo could not change. I mean, just really weird stuff. 

And I like contrasting what it is like to actually order these things vs. the idea that ESP will do whatever you want. If you want your guitar shaped like a flying spaghetti monster, it's probably possible. If you want your ESP Lynch refinished with a different ESP logo, no way, man. Gotta draw the line somewhere.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 21, 2021)

@narad They've certainly got a few criteria that don't follow an obvious path of logic - maybe there's a cultural perspective I don't fully grasp. The whole concept reminds me of @eelblack2's 7 string Kamikaze - IIRC they would do it _after_ getting clearance from George but regardless said no to the GL-20 inlay. It's not a massive leap of logic as to why they would say no regarding a unique design element of a limited anniversary signature for one of their earliest and longest tenured artists... then you see Tech or Craft House builds that are using facets from all over ESP's repertoire. His even _has_ partial GL-20 inlay, they had specifically forbidden the 12th fret design explicitly - the rest being the GL-20 bombs was okay.

Strange rules, indeed. I think you've alluded to getting different responses from different personnel from different shops before - maybe they make it up as they go.


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## narad (Dec 21, 2021)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @narad They've certainly got a few criteria that don't follow an obvious path of logic - maybe there's a cultural perspective I don't fully grasp. The whole concept reminds me of @eelblack2's 7 string Kamikaze - IIRC they would do it _after_ getting clearance from George but regardless said no to the GL-20 inlay. It's not a massive leap of logic as to why they would say no regarding a unique design element of a limited anniversary signature for one of their earliest and longest tenured artists... then you see Tech or Craft House builds that are using facets from all over ESP's repertoire. His even _has_ partial GL-20 inlay, they had specifically forbidden the 12th fret design explicitly - the rest being the GL-20 bombs was okay.
> 
> Strange rules, indeed. I think you've alluded to getting different responses from different personnel from different shops before - maybe they make it up as they go.



Forgot all about that one. But ya, they do do that thing where they call George for big deviations on custom shop orders of his sig. I assume they do it with other artists too. And if you do a custom order on a sig guitar there's a royalty charge involved as well. So I went in thinking I was going to order a CS Lynch for about $4k, get a color change upcharge for $4-500. 

Instead my options were full CS + royalty fee, or buy a brand new CS Lynch and have it immediately refinished. I asked details about what that entailed and it absolutely included having the guitar finished as is with all hardware put on, put in a case, taken to the store, paid for, sent back to the shop, hardware removed, refinished, hardware put back on, brought back to the shop, paid for. Even if that's the financially better option, I can't support that kind of process. So... on the lookout for dinged up old Kamikazes.

Regarding variability, there is, like I always get different price quotes from different store on work (though ultimately you get a charge/revised quote from the ESP shop rather than the individual branch store, so it doesn't matter), but for the big questions almost always they pick up the phone and call someone for confirmation. I do wonder who that person is - presumably not someone at either BigBoss or Craft House.


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## Flappydoodle (Dec 22, 2021)

narad said:


> Ya, the red is really nice too. If you haven't seen this, should give you a point of reference:
> https://www.guitarsrebellion.com/en...stom-shop-horizon-i-liquid-metal-red-e3261202
> 
> 
> ...



Holy shit that liquid metal red looks amazing

Guess I know what my next ESP Original order will be haha


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 22, 2021)

narad said:


> So... on the lookout for dinged up old Kamikazes.



Given your propensity for Random Stars and Kamikazes, this one might be within your interest. No idea what's going on with the locking nut, looks like a cosmetic 'bullet' style fixture. Can't say if it's legit or not but the current price is pretty enticing.


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## narad (Dec 22, 2021)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Given your propensity for Random Stars and Kamikazes, this one might be within your interest. No idea what's going on with the locking nut, looks like a cosmetic 'bullet' style fixture. Can't say if it's legit or not but the current price is pretty enticing.



Yea, I don't know what to think about that one. The back looks legit (it just seems like it's a pain to copy it that well) but the camo definitely isn't, and the logo is also applied in a weird way. I imagine it's the edwards version done up to look like that.


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## mxbraud (Dec 23, 2021)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Given your propensity for Random Stars and Kamikazes, this one might be within your interest. No idea what's going on with the locking nut, looks like a cosmetic 'bullet' style fixture. Can't say if it's legit or not but the current price is pretty enticing.


Some things worry me about that guitar. Like why is there a R1 or R6 nut in place of a R3 that should be there?? Why is all the steel hardware mainly on the bridge all rusted out?? As far as I'm concerned that guitar was impacted by the tsunami! NON-Returnable! I bet so!


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## CanserDYI (Dec 23, 2021)

SexMachiNeguns lolol


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## yan12 (Dec 23, 2021)

The GL-20 inlay is a favorite of mine. I actually love the Kamikaze line, but don't really like playing signature guitars from anyone. Some signatures are awesome guitars, but I tend to avoid except in extreme cases.

The only GL-20 inlay guitars I have seen are the original GL-20 Kamikaze 1 run, and a Kami 4 camo random star owned by Scott Campbell...both of those guitars have ebony boards and MOP inlay material. Of course you can buy GL-20 stickers to put on your neck if you are so inclined.

I purchased this one not too long ago, it's the only GL-20 inlay I have seen in ages, and this one is on a maple board 7 string. I figured it was the only one I would ever see so I got the deal done. Lots of ridicule on owning a bolt on neck 7 string custom with a reverse banana and eclipse body, but I don't care. The guitar has been called and abortion by lots of folks, especially the ESP fanatics, but to have a true custom shop with a serial ending in a "1" is the real deal to me. Most customs or exhibitions end in "2" which means production model or specs.

The guitar sounds massive and I wish I could thank whoever ordered this thing because the specs are awesome. Super thick body, one piece top, single coil neck. I absolutely love it and it is my favorite 7 string of all time.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 23, 2021)

narad said:


> I imagine it's the edwards version done up to look like that.



That's the feeling I get, as well.



yan12 said:


> The only GL-20 inlay guitars I have seen are the original GL-20 Kamikaze 1 run, and a Kami 4 camo random star owned by Scott Campbell...both of those guitars have ebony boards and MOP inlay material. Of course you can buy GL-20 stickers to put on your neck if you are so inclined.
> 
> I purchased this one not too long ago, it's the only GL-20 inlay I have seen in ages, and this one is on a maple board 7 string. I figured it was the only one I would ever see so I got the deal done. Lots of ridicule on owning a bolt on neck 7 string custom with a reverse banana and eclipse body, but I don't care. The guitar has been called and abortion by lots of folks, especially the ESP fanatics, but to have a true custom shop with a serial ending in a "1" is the real deal to me. Most customs or exhibitions end in "2" which means production model or specs.



I recall that particular guitar well. It's not within my wheelhouse but I can always appreciate craftsmanship and vision when I see it. Though now confirming at least two other CS's having GL-20 inlays contradicts what happened with the Kamikaze-7. Maybe it's because of when the guitar was ordered or specifically being a Kamikaze?

_Clarity_, ESP. _Clarity_.


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## yan12 (Dec 23, 2021)

I have heard of them but never seen one. Not a pic on the web or nothing...but I am sure some are out there.

Same with banana headstock. I was told no more after 2018 including Kami's. Not for the USA anyhow.

This one of mine is 2016 and went directly to Canada then here.


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## yan12 (Dec 23, 2021)

Crash, if you have some pics of other GL-20 inlay guitars send them to me. I have seen a couple with decals but I hunt the inlaid ones down...always on the prowl!


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## Crash Dandicoot (Dec 23, 2021)

yan12 said:


> Same with banana headstock. I was told no more after 2018 including Kami's. Not for the USA anyhow.



No banana? My eventual Horizon CS order was gonna have a Kami-1 shaped headstock... That's kinda weak. Guess I have to fly over to narad-land and order in person.


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## narad (Dec 23, 2021)

yan12 said:


> I have heard of them but never seen one. Not a pic on the web or nothing...but I am sure some are out there.
> 
> Same with banana headstock. I was told no more after 2018 including Kami's. Not for the USA anyhow.
> 
> This one of mine is 2016 and went directly to Canada then here.



It's definitely still fine to order it domestically. Got a quote on one like 3 weeks ago.


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## aesthyrian (Dec 25, 2021)

yan12 said:


> Lots of ridicule on owning a bolt on neck 7 string custom with a reverse banana and eclipse body, but I don't care.
> View attachment 101353



That's how you know it's a good guitar.


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## Tuned (Dec 12, 2022)

Hi everyone,

I have a few questions. What letters beside 'US' did ESP USA get in their serials? Did Signature Series also get SS like the Japanese do? Did ESP USA make Standards , even if they were guitars of the same tier but with a different name?
I'm asking because there's that one guitar currently on sale that I am afraid might be a fake, also with a wrong number. But then a guy I know a little says it's legit because he's seen another one like that
Would love to see pics of ESP USA serials other than have the letters 'US' . So far I only saw examples where the number was placed closer to the end of teh headstock, unlike they do on the ESP Japan


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## Tuned (Dec 12, 2022)

Tuned said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a few questions. What letters beside 'US' did ESP USA get in their serials? Did Signature Series also get SS like the Japanese do? Did ESP USA make Standards , even if they were guitars of the same tier but with a different name?
> I'm asking because there's that one guitar currently on sale that I am afraid might be a fake, also with a doubtful number. But then a guy I know a little says it's legit because he's seen another one like that
> Would love to see pics of ESP USA serials other than have the letters 'US' . So far I only saw examples where the number was placed closer to the end of teh headstock, unlike they do on the ESP Japan


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## Ikke (Dec 12, 2022)

Tuned said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a few questions. What letters beside 'US' did ESP USA get in their serials? Did Signature Series also get SS like the Japanese do? Did ESP USA make Standards , even if they were guitars of the same tier but with a different name?
> I'm asking because there's that one guitar currently on sale that I am afraid might be a fake, also with a wrong number. But then a guy I know a little says it's legit because he's seen another one like that
> Would love to see pics of ESP USA serials other than have the letters 'US' . So far I only saw examples where the number was placed closer to the end of teh headstock, unlike they do on the ESP Japan


1Q) *What letters beside 'US' did ESP USA get in their serials? *

1A) The information on the first page is related to the current ESP USA operation in California. To my knowledge, they’ve never used anything besides “US”. There were some old “New York” ESP’s made a long while ago, but those guitars and that operation had nothing to do with today’s operation.

2Q) *Did Signature Series also get SS like the Japanese do? *

2A) If you’re talking about the ESP Japan Original/Custom Signature Series, then they got an Original Series or ESP Custom serial number. ESP USA does not use ESP Japan’s serial number methodology. 

3Q) *Did ESP USA make Standards , even if they were guitars of the same tier but with a different name?*

3A) No.

*I'm asking because there's that one guitar currently on sale that I am afraid might be a fake, also with a wrong number. *

Post pictures of the guitar. Or, you can PM directly and I can give you my opinion.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 12, 2022)

Ikke said:


> 1Q) *What letters beside 'US' did ESP USA get in their serials? *
> 
> 1A) The information on the first page is related to the current ESP USA operation in California. To my knowledge, they’ve never used anything besides “US”. There were some old “New York” ESP’s made a long while ago, but those guitars and that operation had nothing to do with today’s operation.
> 
> ...


He's asking if they have stainless steel fretd for #2.


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## Ikke (Dec 12, 2022)

Tuned said:


> Did Signature Series also get SS like the Japanese do?


If CanserDYI is correct that you’re talking about stainless frets, then

Japan does not use stainless frets, they use nickel. They will use stainless on a Custom if requested.

Your previous question was about serial numbers, so I assumed this question was related.


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## xzacx (Dec 12, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> He's asking if they have stainless steel fretd for #2.


I think the SS he was talking about was the SS serial numbers which the Standard Series had.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 12, 2022)

xzacx said:


> I think the SS he was talking about was the SS serial numbers which the Standard Series had.


I should just stay out of threads I have no reason reading


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