# Slipknot's Live Sound - A massive gig disappointment



## tom_8s (Jan 27, 2015)

Last night I went to see the Slipknot / Korn double-headline 'Prepare For Hell' show in Nottingham, UK. I had been waiting some months for this show and - after seeing Slipknot at Download in 2013 - was as eager as any fan to see them in a more 'intimate' (if you can call an arena that!) setting.

Korn's set was awesome; everything the 16-year-old me (now 31) could have wanted from a band which really opened his eyes to what metal could be. Most importantly - to this story, at least - their sound mix was perfect. You could hear everything in balance and it was loud enough without being painful or past the point of listenable.

Slipknot took to the stage and their mix was a bit wooly to start with; naturally you give a band a song or two's grace for the engineers to iron out any kinks. However, the mix got worse. Much, much worse. For a start it was WAY too loud - I can tolerate volume in a large room but this was ridiculous. Whoever was opp'ing their soundboard had decided that Korn weren't loud enough and had whacked the master fader up by at least 1/3.

Corey's vocals were nowhere to be heard in mix barring some heavily compressed screaming just to get that volume up; Clown and 'nose (!) vocal mics were way up in the mix and distorted. Both guitars were a chugging mess; palm-muted kicked out so much bass that the bass guitar and kick drum dipped in volume, and were mixed with some nasty, fizzy fuzz on top. The drums were just a tinny, fizzy mess too.

7 songs in (halfway through Disastepiece of all songs) I turned to my wife, who had obligingly come with me since she was into Korn when she was younger, and asked her if she was happy to stay. Needless to say, both of us were not impressed by the audio shambles. Our ears were hot and painful and it was a battle to try and keep up with the songs since there was no audible melody outside of the thumping bass. We ended up leaving not even half way through the set. I had paid nearly £50 a ticket to see this band and, thanks to a crap mix, couldn't bear to stick it out; it hurt! I was, and still am (although I really should stop torturing myself over it!) gutted that we felt we had to leave.

I should add to this that, after two songs, Chris Fehn (drummer) had come down off the stage, walked directly behind my back, and had to 'have a word' with one of the sound techs; he knew that something wasn't right with the on-stage sound and it had obviously thrown him. According to my friends in attendance, another band member had taken the opportunity during a crowd-surf or some such thing to speak with the techs, too.

At what point does it become acceptable to just crank the volume up to make a live gig 'better'? I've been to plenty of louder and larger shows in that room and the sound has been stellar; it's not impossible!


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Jan 27, 2015)

Do they still have Mick Hughes running the FOH board? Just curious...


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## tom_8s (Jan 27, 2015)

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> Do they still have Mick Hughes running the FOH board? Just curious...



Not a clue, fella. Is he their 'go to' guy?


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## Alex Kenivel (Jan 27, 2015)

> Corey's vocals were nowhere to be heard in mix barring some heavily compressed screaming just to get that volume up; Clown and 'nose (!) vocal mics were way up in the mix and distorted. Both guitars were a chugging mess; palm-muted kicked out so much bass that the bass guitar and kick drum dipped in volume, and were mixed with some nasty, fizzy fuzz on top. The drums were just a tinny, fizzy mess too.



 sounds like a normal slipknot show to me!


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## Fat-Elf (Jan 27, 2015)

Did you wear any ear plugs?


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## Thorerges (Jan 27, 2015)

Fat-Elf said:


> Did you wear any ear plugs?



Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?


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## DC23 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?



I'd say it isn't really uncommon or rare  . That could just be what I've seen though, I suppose. I've been to a fair amount of shows and have seen folks with earplugs, although they are always in the minority lol. Which reminds me, there are certain earplugs that are marketed to only decrease the volume of noise, rather than altering or muffling what is heard by the wearer.


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## Jake (Jan 27, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?


Not that I've ever seen


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## Fat-Elf (Jan 27, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?



I honestly can't understand how anyone could enjoy a metal show without earplugs. The only time I could was when I saw Periphery but they were just an opening act for Dream Theater so they played way quieter than most bands usually do.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 27, 2015)

I think live bands crank it too loud in general. Most shows I've been to ar garbled without ear plugs. You really haven't experienced a show until you gone with a good set of plugs.


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## aesthyrian (Jan 27, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?



Nope, but that's how you know it's a smart idea!


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## stevexc (Jan 27, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> I think live bands crank it too loud in general. Most shows I've been to ar garbled without ear plugs. You really haven't experienced a show until you gone with a good set of plugs.



Can vouch for that. Wore decent (and by "decent" I mean $25 reusable ones) to Devin Townsend a little while ago, it was the single best sounding show I've ever been to.


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## wankerness (Jan 27, 2015)

aesthyrian said:


> Nope, but that's how you know it's a smart idea!



Yeah. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to wear them to a show like slipknot or the really loud bands of yore like Isis or Sunn O))))). Keeping metal cred is more important than being able to hear what's being played or not having severe tinnitus by age 25, though. Considering how few advancements they've made in reversing ear damage, I can't understand how any music fan could be so careless about it. It's irreversible, serious damage that will eventually make you completely unable to listen to music anymore.

PS: Good story about the sound. I had a very similar experience with Dream Theater back on the 6DOIT tour, you couldn't hear jack any time that the guitar was being palm muted, it was just a bassy, awful mess. Most shows at the Eagle's Ballroom or The Rave in Milwaukee were like that back then, though. The worst I ever saw was a three guitar band where I literally couldn't make out a single riff they played on their entire set. I need to figure out what that band's name was, I think they opened for Opeth back in like 2005.


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## isispelican (Jan 27, 2015)

Metal concerts have WAY too loud volume and the only thing this does is destroy the sound quality and your ears. The quietest concert I've been to was also the best sounding one and it was Meshuggah.


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## -JR- (Jan 27, 2015)

wankerness said:


> I need to figure out what that band's name was, I think they opened for Opeth back in like 2005.



That was probably Beyond The Embrace.


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## piggins411 (Jan 27, 2015)

I haven't much trouble with shows being too loud, besides maybe Zechs Marquise. Even when I saw BTBAM it wasn't that bad, but maybe my hearing is already wrecked or something


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## wankerness (Jan 27, 2015)

-JR- said:


> That was probably Beyond The Embrace.



Yep, that was it. I could only think of Dark Tranquillity/Devildriver, I totally forgot that Lacuna Coil was the other main opener I'd seen with Opeth. THEY actually managed to sound good in that room right after Beyond the Embrace, they had a slick set-up going with their very tight, poppy songs. It matched their silly Mortal Kombat stage costumes.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 27, 2015)

wankerness said:


> Most shows at the Eagle's Ballroom or The Rave in Milwaukee were like that back then, though.



Still like that I'm afraid, at least it was when I went to see Mastodon and Red Fang.


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## wankerness (Jan 27, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Still like that I'm afraid, at least it was when I went to see Mastodon and Red Fang.



That's not surprising. I haven't actually been there since about 2007 so I didn't want to act like it was still true since I really didn't know


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## toiletstand (Jan 27, 2015)

always a safe bet to take ear plugs with you.


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## Aion (Jan 28, 2015)

At this point, most acts of that level are using in ears for most of their monitoring which means significantly reduced stage volume. FOH guys generally don't wear plugs, but most of have a strange situation now where they can't hear shit except when they're mixing. Talk to them at conversational volume, they don't hear a thing, but play a piece of music at the same volume and they can instantly tell you what frequencies are hot and which are too low. I bring this up because a lot are just used to listening to their music at too high of a volume. It's fine for them, but no one else. As an audience member, a good set of plugs help to reduce a lot of the reflected sound so you just hear what you're actually supposed to. I'd never wear them while mixing, but as an audience member I do it all the time.


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## Alimination (Jan 28, 2015)

Wear Ear Plugs!!

I saw Slayer around 06-07. I remember my hearing was so messed up that every time I yawned I heard the crowd chant "Slayer" for up to three days. lol
I noticed my ears were significantly more jacked up since. I so yes I wear ear plugs now to shows.

I noticed some bands even sell them at their merch booths. (got a pair from Gwar before)


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## tom_8s (Jan 28, 2015)

An absolute error on my part, I guess, since I always wear plugs when I'm playing gigs! I've never experienced this level (sic) of poor sound at a metal show before, however; as someone mentioned above, a Meshuggah show was one of the best-balanced and reasonable-loudness shows I've been to. Even Opeth weren't this loud.

A note to definitely take plugs with me every time, but it shouldn't be a requirement to the AUDIENCE to moderate their listening because FOH aren't mixing either for the room or for the pleasure of their audience.


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## Hollowway (Jan 28, 2015)

Yeah, metal shows sound MUCH better with ear plugs in. Even just shoving a torn up tissue in there is an improvement. It's surprising, but if you want to be able to distinguish the instruments and vocals, it helps immensely. 

I also think that it's got to be exceptionally hard to get a huge number of instruments with a lot of range crossover to sound good together. Power trio situations always sound good to me, and my thinking is there's not a chance you could sonically step on someone else's toes.

But that sucks that Slipknot were so crappy sounding live. Sounding good is fundamentally the most important thing in a concert. But we continually hear of crappy mixes. It's weird. You'd think after decades of this happening they'd have this totally dialed in, but it's still a crap shoot whether the band will sound anything like on the album.


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## The Mirror (Jan 28, 2015)

Thorerges said:


> Is it common for people at metal shows to wear earplugs?



In the last 5 years I had only one Metal show (excluding a great local band) where I didn't have to wear plugs to hear basically anything other than cranked up noise and that was Opeth, as their mix was awesome and not too loud.


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## wilch (Jan 28, 2015)

I wore earplugs to the last Slipknot concert here in Sydney (Etymotic plugs too). My experience echoes the OP's.

Wooly, and crap sounding. Zero definition for anything.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jan 28, 2015)

Plugs are a must. I use concussive blocking ones from a deployment, so you can still talk at normal volume but not go def from a roaring 240B or IED blast. I can't remember how many shows have been a disappointment because of bad sound. Sometimes its the volume, sometimes its the engineers, sometimes its just the damn venue itself. Firestone in Orlando- you gotta be standing in the right place. HoB and Hard Rock, same thing. Some shows at the Beacham were good, and the best was Meshuggah though oddly quiet. Carcass was awesome and loud as hell; sound was correct right off the bat. Some of Ybor's venues are hit or miss, same with the Brass Mug, but I'll say I've never been to a bad sounding show at good old State Theater (Janus Landing too, which is an outdoor plaza between buildings). Most of the times I've experienced poor sound, the touring techs and local guys fail to get along. I've seen that both ways. 

The only Slipknot show I've ever seen was during their original album tour run. It was outside, and it was clear sounding as ever despite being stupid loud.


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## Asrial (Jan 28, 2015)

IMO, if you pay this much attention to sound quality to a Slipknot concert, instead of flailing around, you're no longer in their target audience. 
At least you can knowingly say even the band members thought something was off.


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## fps (Jan 28, 2015)

Asrial said:


> IMO, if you pay this much attention to sound quality to a Slipknot concert, instead of flailing around, you're no longer in their target audience.
> At least you can knowingly say even the band members thought something was off.



Was trying to find a sensitive way of saying this. 

It's a rock gig, you take your chances really. I've been to great gigs with bad sound. Slipknot are about chaos.

The volume levels are nuts though.


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## vividox (Jan 28, 2015)

+1 to the ear plugs discussion. My band teacher in high school took me and a bunch of my friends to a Dream Theater show. He put in ear phones at the start of the show, and since we were all stupid teenagers, we made fun of him for it. He insisted it made the show sound better, plus the fact that it's cool not to have tinnitus when you're 30. I tried it the next show I went to and have taken a pair with me to every metal show since. 99% of the time, even if it's not too loud, it cuts out a lot of the extra reverberation and really tightens up what you are hearing.


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## ridner (Jan 28, 2015)

that's a bummer. always sucks to be let down by a band/gig you were really looking forward to. not uncommon for bands to have an off night here and there. not an excuse but happens. I have only seen 2 "big" Slipknot gigs - one of which was the Pledge of Allegiance tour back in 2001 and more recently when they toured the "All Hope Is Gone" album. both gigs sounded great, from what I can remember. every other time I have seen them was pre-2001 and in smaller clubs - except for Ozzfest '99.


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## Duraesu (Jan 28, 2015)

I cant understand why rock/metal gigs have to be loud... I mean, ear piercing loud. So many details that get lost with a lousy and loud mix.


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## MikeH (Jan 28, 2015)

Hell, even cheap $2 lawn mowing ear plugs make shows more enjoyable for me. I used to not care, but now that my hearing is actually a valuable asset, I'm going to continue wearing them at every show. Plus it balances out the frequencies and makes listening more enjoyable as well.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 28, 2015)

I would never go to a gig again with ear plugs. The damage a loud gig does to yours ears is permanent, even if its micro it all adds up over time. Plus it makes it sound better and filters out the really low/high frequencies.

In Ireland we have strict sound laws which is a godsend for metal gigs since the drums and bass aren't overpowering everything.


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## hairychris (Jan 28, 2015)

Been using plugs at gigs & clubs for >12 years, in a classic case of "slamming the stable gate after the horse had bolted" as my hearing was already trashed.

Wear them. Plenty of people do, although most of them are older and have overdone it previously!

As for the Slipknot gig... Sometimes that happens. If they overcooked the PA then they'll be bouncing off the limiters and everything will sound like crap. Last time I saw them was 10 years ago and they sounded fine. Also, I know folks who saw them in London on this tour and haven't heard anyone complain about that show so sounds like a venue/date problem. Sucks, but it does happen sadly.


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## jamesfarrell (Jan 28, 2015)

Etymotic Research | ETY

These. Cut the DB's down a bit.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jan 28, 2015)

I always keep some ear plugs in the house for motorcycling, I'd wear them to gigs without feeling silly. You have to look after your ears, especially if you care about things like tone, dynamics etc in your music, and of course, being able to hear your grandchildren without them having to shout in your ear.


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## ChrisRushing (Jan 28, 2015)

Sometimes it takes moving around in the room. I normally try to get close to the guy who is doing the mixing. Obviously that doesn't let you get right up at the stage but a lot of the times it yields the best sounding spot for a particular venue.


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## Skullet (Jan 28, 2015)

Sorry to hear you were let down by their sound - i was at the Glasgow show and both korn and slipknot were on top form. I had ear plugs in because if i go without them the sound of any band is unbearable lol


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## vividox (Jan 28, 2015)

ChrisRushing said:


> Sometimes it takes moving around in the room. I normally try to get close to the guy who is doing the mixing. Obviously that doesn't let you get right up at the stage but a lot of the times it yields the best sounding spot for a particular venue.


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## I Shot JR (Jan 29, 2015)

I saw Slayer in 2013 and it was similar. The guitars were flubby, muddy, thin, like you could hear the pick attack but in a bad way. Drums sounded okayish but the bass was so low that even on parts with just bass you couldn't hear it at all.

Ironically enough the best sounding band I've seen was Metallica on the same stage that same day. Lars' fills were a bit sloppy but I _felt_ the kicks, and the ground shook when they played Sad But True. DUUUUN DUN DUN dananana DUUUUN DUN DUN


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## jonsick (Jan 29, 2015)

I actually have found the complete opposite problem with mainly London gigs. Espeically the O2 Academy in Islington. They seem to utterly despise guitarists. 

A lot of bands i see, the vocals are WAAAAY up, the snare is WAAAAY up, the bass guitar is too bassy... the guitarists? Well, they may as well not have been there. No matter what, they were inaudible. 

Added to that, a few times there may have been a couple in front of me, saying something to each other in normal speaking voice. I almost had to ask them to keep quiet as they were disturbing the death metal band going off right in front of them. Ridiculous really!

Oddly, I saw Amon Amarth in Oxford recently. It sounded fantastic. A little weak given all their digital modeller-ness, but you could hear everything, it was the right volume and all was well with the world.

I saw Rhapsody of Fire a few years ago in Islington. Luca Turilli, the very reason most people were there, may as well have just taken five for the whole set. Paradise Lost at the Scala were even worse! No guitars at all!


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## GraemeH (Jan 29, 2015)

Weird, I need to go to the metal gigs you guys are going to.
I haven't been to a metal gig in 10 years I thought was loud enough. I assume it's down to noise laws.
But metal gigs to me are about impact and intensity, not being able to pick out what texture of pick the guitarist is using. Especially not if it's Slipknot who are always going to sound like a sloppy mess of a primary school music class in full swing anyway.

When you can have a conversation with someone during a song, it's too quiet for me. I would wear ear plugs, I agree with the theory of wearing them to gigs, I just don't find gigs nearly loud enough to cause issues.


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## fps (Jan 29, 2015)

I Shot JR said:


> I saw Slayer in 2013 and it was similar. The guitars were flubby, muddy, thin, like you could hear the pick attack but in a bad way. Drums sounded okayish but the bass was so low that even on parts with just bass you couldn't hear it at all.
> 
> Ironically enough the best sounding band I've seen was Metallica on the same stage that same day. Lars' fills were a bit sloppy but I _felt_ the kicks, and the ground shook when they played Sad But True. DUUUUN DUN DUN dananana DUUUUN DUN DUN



Nothing ironic about it, Metallica have been one of the biggest draws in live music for over 20 years for a reason, and they were gigging their arses off for over a decade before that, their live sound is CRUSHING.


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## gogolXmogol (Jan 29, 2015)

It is always a good practice to wear earplugs, especially if you are a musicians and would like to take care about hearing and the perceived frequency range


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## Splenetic (Jan 29, 2015)

jonsick said:


> Paradise Lost at the Scala were even worse! No guitars at all!



With PL in particular, I would flip out if that happened. To the point where I'd risk getting kicked out by going to the sound guy and screaming at him to do his job properly. 

Unacceptable.


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## Duosphere (Jan 29, 2015)

_velkan said:


> I cant understand why rock/metal gigs have to be loud... I mean, ear piercing loud. So many details that get lost with a lousy and loud mix.



So you think everybody listen to things the same way?
You NEED to learn what sounds crap to you, sounds like a masterpiece to another one.



Alex Kenivel said:


> sounds like a normal slipknot show to me!


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## Blasphemer (Jan 29, 2015)

Interesting and related article. I know he's talking about records, but it can just as easily make it's way into the live world, as well. People as a whole may just want louder and more bass now as opposed to a clean mix


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## Ambit (Jan 29, 2015)

I love Slipknot and everything, but they're not a particularly good live band. They play most songs at a much faster tempo, and tend to be pretty sloppy. Corey is pretty hit or miss depending on the song hes singing. I think those factors kinda leak into their live mix. They're not really notably amazing musicians, and i doubt the band puts much thought into their live mixes.


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## Enselmis (Jan 30, 2015)

tom_8s said:


> An absolute error on my part, I guess, since I always wear plugs when I'm playing gigs! I've never experienced this level (sic) of poor sound at a metal show before, however; as someone mentioned above, a Meshuggah show was one of the best-balanced and reasonable-loudness shows I've been to. Even Opeth weren't this loud.
> 
> A note to definitely take plugs with me every time, but it shouldn't be a requirement to the AUDIENCE to moderate their listening because FOH aren't mixing either for the room or for the pleasure of their audience.



Both times I've seen Opeth they were REALLY on the quiet side, relative to most metal shows. I thought it was great. Best mixesI've ever heard.


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## synrgy (Jan 30, 2015)

It happens. When I went to the recent NIN/Soundgarden tour, Soundgarden sounded like freshly ground ass (read: couldn't hear anything besides the drums, bass, and a bit of Cornell's vocals). That made me concerned for NIN's set, but then they ended up sounding _amazing_ (as per usual), so I can only presume the two bands brought different sound people.

Regarding Slipknot more specifically - disregarding songwriting and focusing entirely on mixing - after listening to Iowa once when it first came out, I'm inclined to think that they just sound shitty. That album was like a giant wall of treble.

+1 for earplugs. Don't always _have to_ use them, but it's good to always bring them along _just in case_ the levels are damaging.


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## tom_8s (Jan 30, 2015)

synrgy said:


> It happens. When I went to the recent NIN/Soundgarden tour, Soundgarden sounded like freshly ground ass (read: couldn't hear anything besides the drums, bass, and a bit of Cornell's vocals). That made me concerned for NIN's set, but then they ended up sounding _amazing_ (as per usual), so I can only presume the two bands brought different sound people.
> 
> Regarding Slipknot more specifically - disregarding songwriting and focusing entirely on mixing - after listening to Iowa once when it first came out, I'm inclined to think that they just sound shitty. That album was like a giant wall of treble.
> 
> +1 for earplugs. Don't always _have to_ use them, but it's good to always bring them along _just in case_ the levels are damaging.



I'd absolutely die if NIN ever had bad sound at a show; they are my all-time, number-one, go-and-see-them-without-fail favourite band.

Slipknot's 'Iowa' is my favourite album of theirs! It's got the most consistent production even if it is a little 'fizzy' at times. Vol. 3 just sounded flat, and 'All Hope...' while a great record was a bit too in-the-mould for me.

It's a funny thing about Corey Taylor... as someone said; he's a bit hit and miss. I saw Slipknot at DL2013 and they killed it. Stone Sour played the same weekend and Corey's vocals were, dare I say it, infinitely better. I think there's just something about the catalyst of Slipknot that dulls all of the musicians into some brute-force musical sledgehammer...!


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## Korbain (Feb 1, 2015)

Enselmis said:


> Both times I've seen Opeth they were REALLY on the quiet side, relative to most metal shows. I thought it was great. Best mixesI've ever heard.



Indeed, they seem to really know how have a great live sound. Opeth and NIN are 2 bands that always seem to nail their sound live for me 

Then again i've seen korn a fair few times and they are ....ing loud, and their sound is great? It's weird lol

Even last time i saw tool their live sound was pretty terrible, which was a massive shock. They were overly loud and i could only really hear the bass and drums (danny's sound was amazing)...could barely hear the vocals.

I've only seen slipknot at festivals and they've always been pretty damn good live, maybe they're just bad in venues?


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## synrgy (Feb 2, 2015)

Korbain said:


> Even last time i saw tool their live sound was pretty terrible, which was a massive shock. They were overly loud and i could only really hear the bass and drums (danny's sound was amazing)...could barely hear the vocals.



Tool sounded terrible when I saw them, too, but I've always presumed it was the venue; basketball arenas generally aren't designed with acoustics in mind..


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## Korbain (Feb 3, 2015)

synrgy said:


> Tool sounded terrible when I saw them, too, but I've always presumed it was the venue; basketball arenas generally aren't designed with acoustics in mind..



haha well that could explain that 

I tend to think that was the issue the last time i saw them as well. I've seen them 2 or 3 times at same venue and at a festival, they were fine, sounded great. They changed to a bigger venue last time round and sounded woeful 

The right venue is always important to sound


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## AnP Hardcore (Feb 3, 2015)

I saw Slipknot last night with King 810 in Luxembourg. While King 810 mix was f*cking awful (Just drums and vocals), Slipknot's mix was really good. I was wearing cheap earplugs during the whole concert. Slipknot's mix was really well balanced, you could hear Corey's vocal really well, the drums were properly mixed and guitars and bass were well balanced. One bummer though was that you couldn't hear Clown and Chris's backing vocals well.


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