# Do Macs suck?



## Vince (Feb 8, 2006)

Apparently they do.

Link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794
(pretty work safe, mind you he cusses a couple times)


----------



## Chris D (Feb 8, 2006)

That guy should lay off the coffee.


----------



## darren (Feb 8, 2006)

That guy doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He probably tripped over his computer's power cord without saving his work, so he feels the need to create some exaggerated, fabricated stories about why his Mac sucks.

Change "Mac" to "Windows" and you could say all the same things.


----------



## Chris D (Feb 8, 2006)

darren said:


> Change "Mac" to "Windows" and you could say all the same things.



True...

Like this: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4956


----------



## Toshiro (Feb 8, 2006)

Here's just a small sample of why Macs suck:


----------



## Elysian (Feb 8, 2006)

the way i look at it, theres nothing a mac can do a pc can't... but maybe with mac's having intel chips(why not amd?) they will start getting more support in the industry, i dunno...


----------



## darren (Feb 8, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Here's just a small sample of why Macs suck:
> 
> ...


That's like saying, "Ibanez sucks because EMG doesn't make 7-string pickups that fit standard pickup routing."

It's not Apple's fault there aren't as many games available. Complain to the developers.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 8, 2006)

darren said:


> That's like saying, "Ibanez sucks because EMG doesn't make 7-string pickups that fit standard pickup routing."
> 
> It's not Apple's fault there aren't as many games available. Complain to the developers.


Actually, that's not _entirely_ true. Some of the blame falls on Apple for mmm... not the best business decisions. The idea of sticking with the Motorola chips for so long certainly didn't help. But developers go where the money is, and since Apple had never regained a sgnificant share of the PC market outside of video/audio production and education, you can't blame the developers for not porting over a lot of game titles if the demand wasn't going to be there. And the failure of Apple to get a decent slice of the market is at least partly their fault (I've read alot of Apple history. I'm kind of a computing history buff, and Steve Jobs has alwasy been a real interesting character to me.)

That said, I like Macs, and I think Macs are generally more stable than Windows PCs. I'm no expert, though.


----------



## TheReal7 (Feb 8, 2006)

That video is hilarious.... and so much of it is true.


----------



## Roland777 (Feb 8, 2006)

That guy = own. 


Macs = suck.

And I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon here - I've worked on Macs, and they suck because of those specific reasons that he, in a civilized manner, conveys through verbal communication.


----------



## Toshiro (Feb 8, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Actually, that's not _entirely_ true. Some of the blame falls on Apple for mmm... not the best business decisions. The idea of sticking with the Motorola chips for so long certainly didn't help. But developers go where the money is, and since Apple had never regained a sgnificant share of the PC market outside of video/audio production and education, you can't blame the developers for not porting over a lot of game titles if the demand wasn't going to be there. And the failure of Apple to get a decent slice of the market is at least partly their fault (I've read alot of Apple history. I'm kind of a computing history buff, and Steve Jobs has alwasy been a real interesting character to me.)
> 
> That said, I like Macs, and I think Macs are generally more stable than Windows PCs. I'm no expert, though.



What TDW said.

I HATE Mirco$oft, but I have to be able to play games. Have to. I cannot live without an hour or two a week, and right now the PC is my outlet. 

I like building my own systems anyway.


----------



## TheReal7 (Feb 8, 2006)

I have worked with PCs and Macs for the last 10 years. Everything from Windows 3.1 to Windows XP Pro and Mac OS6 to OSX many many different machines. I have aslo owned both mac and PC systems and my conclusion, based on REAL world experience, is that PCs are way more stable but way more vulnerable if you do not know what you are doing.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm using a mac right now. Why? Someone hijacked my PC. Why didn't I have a firewall? I did, it just sucked compared to what came with the mac for free. Haha.

Almost half of the stuff he says actually happens more often on PC. I really don't think either is better/worse, when you put everything into perspective.


----------



## garcia3441 (Feb 8, 2006)

A former job I had required me to travel; a lot. One day I was headed overseas and at the airport I was asked by the security people what kind of laptop i had. i told them a mac ibook. They told me that I could *not* take it with me to this 8th world country because the mac met the federal definition of a supercomputer. I had to have it fedexed home and bought a pc at the airport.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 8, 2006)

^ wtf?


----------



## Shawn (Feb 8, 2006)

A friend of mine loves his Mac...........


----------



## Naren (Feb 8, 2006)

That was a clever video. To me, it was very true. I've worked on Macs, PCs, and other such computers (Silicon Graphics with Unix, PC with Linux, etc.) and I absolutely HATE Macs. The first computer I had was a mid-1980's Mac and it completely sucked. And not because it was old. I worked on a new Mac in 1997 and 1998... 

Ah... I'll just leave it at that. Of course, Windows is not perfect. It's not even that great, but I think it's much better than Mac OS.


----------



## Drew (Feb 8, 2006)

garcia3441 said:


> A former job I had required me to travel; a lot. One day I was headed overseas and at the airport I was asked by the security people what kind of laptop i had. i told them a mac ibook. They told me that I could take it with me to this 8th world country because the mac met the federal definition of a supercomputer. I had to have it fedexed home and bought a pc at the airport.



 

That's sorta both a pain in the ass AND a strong endorsement. 

In my experience, it's more "computers suck" than Macs suck or PC's suck. I'm a PC owner, but only because when it came time to buy my current recording workstation I couldn't justify the added expense a Mac would have entailed. The next computer? Possibly...


----------



## garcia3441 (Feb 8, 2006)

Drew said:


> That's sorta both a pain in the ass AND a strong endorsement.
> 
> In my experience, it's more "computers suck" than Macs suck or PC's suck. I'm a PC owner, but only because when it came time to buy my current recording workstation I couldn't justify the added expense a Mac would have entailed. The next computer? Possibly...



I've never been a Mac person, but the owner of the company was a different story. That place ran on Macs.

Although when I needed something to record on I went out and bought a dual precessor G5, For everything else I use a PC.


----------



## garcia3441 (Feb 8, 2006)

bostjan said:


> ^ wtf?



That story would have made a lot more sense if I hadn't left out the word _not_.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 8, 2006)

darren said:


> That guy doesn't know WTF he's talking about. He probably tripped over his computer's power cord without saving his work, so he feels the need to create some exaggerated, fabricated stories about why his Mac sucks.
> 
> Change "Mac" to "Windows" and you could say all the same things.



Please direct me to the clover button on my keybord...

BTW, if you watch the whole video, he says he did the video on a mac.. followed by "Mac killed my inner child" ;p


----------



## Leon (Feb 8, 2006)

i'm a PC linux user. the ONLY reason i ever have to reboot anymore is when i update my kernel. i once went 2 months without rebooting 

that being said, i used to think that windows was better than Mac, but then the Mac operating system went UNIX-ish. if i had to go Winblows or Mac, i'd go Mac.


----------



## Jeff (Feb 8, 2006)

I only buy Jeffway Custom Computers.....anything less is uncivilized!


----------



## Ken (Feb 8, 2006)

Each has their pros and cons. I don't diss either one, because each plays an important role in this world. Apple thinks outside the box, and gives us cool ideas (wonder where the concept of a desktop came from? Yep, Macintosh.), and pc makes them affordable for the masses.

Mac has too much of an ego, so there won't be any way except the mac way.

Windows just tries to make things easier for the world, and it's comparable to leaving a key under your doormat. Yeah, you'll never get locked out, but every burglar is going to be looking under your 'mat.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 8, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> wonder where the concept of a desktop came from? Yep, Macintosh.



I actually think it was a Xerox operating system from the early 70s. 

Just checked. It was. 
"The Xerox Alto, developed at Xerox PARC in 1973, was the first personal computer and the first computer to use the desktop metaphor and graphical user interface (GUI)."


----------



## Ken (Feb 8, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> I actually think it was a Xerox operating system from the early 70s.
> 
> Just checked. It was.
> "The Xerox Alto, developed at Xerox PARC in 1973, was the first personal computer and the first computer to use the desktop metaphor and graphical user interface (GUI)."



Did some research at about.com and found that Jobs was working on the L.I.S.A. project at Apple before he visited Xerox in '73 after buying stock. Also found an article that said the Apple LISA was the first personal computer to use a GUI. That's what I love about the Internet, the quality of the info...


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 8, 2006)

I've read about this quite extensively, in some things I like to call books. 

Xerox PARC (That's Palo Alto Reseach Center to you n00bs) developed the first GUI, and the first mouse. Jobs got the ideas form visiting them in about '79.. The Xerox people basicaly told Jobs "Do what you want," since they didn't have a clue how to market their nifty inventions (the engineering folks weren't as sanguine about it, however.) LISA was born, but Jobs got tired of the beauracratic LISA project pretty quickly. The LISA retailed for about 10 grand, and it was the mainstay of Apple's hopes back round 82/83 or so, I guess it was, +/-. He saw this obscure little project at Apple HQ, namely the Mac, and jumped on board. Took alot of the good LISA ideas, and brought them over to Mac, which was far cheaper, and actually performed better in most ways. That's where he got that whole "Let's be Pirates!" shit, even going so far as to hang up the Jolly Roger over the Mac tream's workspace. Crazy shit, lol.

It wasn't '73 either, Ken. Apple wasn't even founded until '76.

I'm kinda an Apple history addict. Here's a good link about Apple history. (There';s some great books out there, BTW. Very fascinating reading.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Computer


----------



## Ken (Feb 8, 2006)

2 testimonials are good enough for me.


----------



## darren (Feb 8, 2006)

Hello.

The first mass-market Personal Computer was the Apple II, released in 1977.


----------



## Donnie (Feb 8, 2006)

Meh... Mac or PC. They are both computers. They both have their problems and they both suck.


----------



## Leon (Feb 8, 2006)

garbage in, garbage out!


----------



## Durero (Feb 9, 2006)

Been a computer nerd since about 1981 and never owned a PC.
Went from Apple ][ to Macs to NeXT and now back to Macs since Apple bought NeXT (the best operating system I've ever used). The gripes in the video are completely outdated but definitely apply equally to the old versions of both mac and windows operating systems. Personally I would never use the old mac os (os9 or earlier) or any version of windows. 

Any musician who does have a current mac has the opportunity to use one of the best software practice tools available: GarageBand - which is also excellent for basic demo recording and sketching out compositions. It's the first audio/midi recording & looping program that I've seen which has a reasonably intuitive user interface - most music software has absolutely horrible interface design.
For pro recording & composition I use Logic Pro.

I doubt the gaming issue will remain relevant for long with the advent of Intel-based Macs, but I don't play any games so I don't care.

I definitely feel sorry for people who are basing their mac experience on a pre-os x mac though. OS 9 was a horrible system and is totally unrelated to OS X.


----------



## garcia3441 (Feb 9, 2006)

Durero said:


> GarageBand



It came with my Mac, but I haven't used it yet. I guess I'm gonna have to give it try.


----------



## Flesh-EatingMonkey (Feb 9, 2006)

That guy's just a moron. If he can't figure out how to use a Mac without making it crash, he must have a REALLY difficult time tying his shoes each morning.  I've never had any of the problems he's b.s.ing about over the past 10 years. I don't use my computer for gaming, so I could care less. 

Basicly, he's proof that Social Darwinism is not true.


----------



## Chris D (Feb 9, 2006)

If you work with 3dsmax a Mac isn't an option... it's workstation or fatPC only for me.

The "non-micro$oft"-ness of Macs appeals to me though.


----------



## 7stringninja (Feb 9, 2006)

I have been a die-hard PC guy my whole life. Everyone has always said "Macs are better for music and art" but I just never bought into it.

However, I am at the point now, where I wouldn't mind having a Mac IN ADDITION to my PC. In addition to playing guitar, I also like to delve into electronic music production, and even some rap. I use alot of Propellerheads software, which is available for both PC and OSX, but I've used both, and OSX beats it hands down. Also, Logic (the program) is now exclusive to OSX. 

I'll continue to use my PC for web/games/misc while the Mac is going to be dedicated for music and such. I won't have to worry about deleting funny videos that I want to keep, so that I can make room on my harddrive to store my new song idea.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 9, 2006)

7stringninja said:


> I won't have to worry about deleting *funny* videos that I want to keep, so that I can make room on my harddrive to store my new song idea.


By "funny" videos, he means porn, of course. _Lots_ of it.


----------



## nitelightboy (Feb 9, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> By "funny" videos, he means porn, of course. _Lots_ of it.




That's why I have an external hard drive. My porn collection surpassed my 100 GB internal drive


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 9, 2006)

nitelightboy said:


> That's why I have an external hard drive. My porn collection surpassed my 100 GB internal drive


I almost said "HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!" 

But then I remembered mine did, too.  Thank God for DVD-R. 

It's amazing what you can find on eMule, just by putting in terms like Bookworm Bitches and Barely Legal.  I think I've maybe seen 1/8th of what I have.


----------



## nitelightboy (Feb 9, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> I almost said "HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!"
> 
> But then I remembered mine did, too.  Thank God for DVD-R.
> 
> It's amazing what you can find on eMule, just by putting in terms like Bookworm Bitches and Barely Legal.  I think I've maybe seen 1/8th of what I have.






Yeah, try mother and daughter 

You're terrible there TDW, just terrible


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Feb 9, 2006)

nitelightboy said:


> You're terrible there TDW, just terrible


Mow you know the awful truth, NLB.


----------



## nitelightboy (Feb 9, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 9, 2006)

I hate logic being exclusive to macs as i'm forever stuck using the lasst PC version. Having said that though, i dount i actually need all the new bells and whistles the new versions come with.

For all intents and purposes i prefer having a PC where i can quite happily slap in cards, screw about with putting them together to the spec i want and being able to choose operating systems for it.

Now I am not a huge fan of XP, but it does the job. I still like win2000 as it's actually very stable (the only way i've crashed it is by doing bad programming things)

Macs on the other hand... Well, apart from a newer version of logic there's absolutely no point in me getting one at all. Sometimes i think mac users just feel they have to think it's the best thing out there to justify all the money they've just wasted


----------



## darren (Feb 9, 2006)

The same could be said about just about any "premium" product, like, say, a BMW.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 9, 2006)

darren said:


> The same could be said about just about any "premium" product, like, say, a BMW.



Or a Pretige Ibanez? 

I'm sorry, but I'm a fan of quality. 

IMHO, there are PC's that are just as good as mac's, but cheap junk will always be PC and will always have troubles. My friends in high school all said the same thing when i bought my IBM. They all bought cheap Packerd Bell computers and guess what- my IBM still works! Only thing I replaced was the power supply so I could add CD-ROM and a second hard drive.

Why hassle around with cheap stuff when time is valuable?


----------



## giannifive (Feb 9, 2006)

Umm, yeah, the whole Mac vs. PC debate is usually a flamewar I don't like to get involved in. However, I've recently started using an OS X laptop at work, so I now have some experience...

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool UNIX/Linux guy. So imagine my frustration when I couldn't figure out how to burn a CD on the Mac. I was like "on Linux it's simple; it's just 'cdrecord -v dev=ATAPI:0,0,0 -tao -data cd.iso'". That may sound crazy, but there really is a logic to it. On the Mac, at least for a newbie, there doesn't appear to be any logic. You just have to look until you find the right brightly-colored, exquisitely-rendered button. However, it may take forvever to find that button, and the Mac's help usually doesn't help at all.

The other thing about Macs that I find funny in a black humor sort of way are the totally confusing dialog messages that appear to involve some sort of circular logic. For example, when deleting a song from iTunes, this is the sequence of messages you get: 1) "Are you sure you want to remove the selected items from your music library?", and 2) "Do you want to move the selected items to the Trash, or keep them in the iTunes Music folder? Only files in the iTunes Music folder will be moved to the Trash". Huh? My other favorite, which I don't have the exact text of now, is about transferring keys from an old version of the Keychain thing to a new version. It asks a simple yes or no question like "Do you want to use your old keys?" and the options are "Change All" or "Don't Change". Huh?

I'm starting to get used to the Mac, but I can honestly say there is a larger volume of more powerful software available for Linux. The Mac is fine for most of my work, but for technical things I always use my Linux machine.

My 2 cents...


----------



## garcia3441 (Feb 9, 2006)

To err is human, but you need a computer to really screw things up.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 9, 2006)




----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 9, 2006)

Flesh-EatingMonkey said:


> That guy's just a moron. If he can't figure out how to use a Mac without making it crash, he must have a REALLY difficult time tying his shoes each morning.  I've never had any of the problems he's b.s.ing about over the past 10 years. I don't use my computer for gaming, so I could care less.
> 
> Basicly, he's proof that Social Darwinism is not true.




Watch the WHOLE video ;p


----------



## 7stringninja (Feb 10, 2006)

darren said:


> The same could be said about just about any "premium" product, like, say, a BMW.



I would kill my own mother for a new M5  


Oh, and Dark Horse, I never denied my porn collection. The "funny videos" is referring to random stuff like The GI JOE mpegs and stuff like that.

My porn is safely stored on DVD-R. No need to delete that


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 10, 2006)

I do agree however that cheap PC's that get pushed onto people that don't know any better with loads of crap installed are junk. I remember proprietry systems and components (like motherboards and RAM) all associated with Compaq et all back in the day that just meant even trying to upgrade a system was a nightmare. Some PC companies have been responsible for marketing some utter utter rubbish. And some companies still do to be honest... (especially not putting enough RAM in machines...)

In that respect macs are good, as they are standard pretty much and you know what you're getting.

Given the choice between a MAC and a high spec PC I'd always choose the PC thiough, as i know i can fiddle with it and modify it how I want, and run multiple OS's. 

I just personally don't see the point in macs unless you have the funds to dedicate an entire machine to music or video. Plus macs just remind me of snobbery in my last musical escapade (which probably has a lot to do with my dislike of them)


----------



## Flesh-EatingMonkey (Feb 11, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> Watch the WHOLE video ;p



Yeah, it was a setup. He made the entire video on a Mac.


----------



## Vegetta (Feb 11, 2006)

I am a PC guy but I use a mac at work...

A lot of what the guy was saying in the video is true...


spinning Beachball of death FTL 

Macs can be very annoying - They have this thing called a keychain Manager- basically this is a password system that is supposed to prevent people from using software on your computer (like accessing your email-) All it really manages to do is fuck up fonts (yes fonts are installed per user - stupid) and forces me to enter a password whenever I use half the programs I need - (switching sites in dreamweaver, using the terminal,etc)

I see some people mention garageband - I actually use that to create bg music for video--- its not terrible but its pretty basic. It has a decent selection of effects and the few VSTs it has are ok (I mainly use strings and piano-) the loops it has are horrible (you have to shell out $99 for loop cds) 

You can buy a PC that will match the performance of a mac for about half the price - I'm not saying Pcs are perfect either but IF I am paying for a pain in the ass - I am going with the less expensive route...


----------



## darren (Feb 12, 2006)

Keychain Manager has nothing to do with allowing or not allowing people to use software... it just manages permissions and passwords.

Fonts can be installed per-user or system-wide. It all just depends on if you put them in the user's font directory or the system font directory.

GarageBand is pretty great considering it's FREE with the computer. And the samples that come with it are also pretty great considering they're FREE. Lots of other loops can be downloaded for FREE as well.

Nothing drives me nuts more than people talking shit without getting their facts straight.


----------



## Chris (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm not a mac guy at all, but I'd love a mac recording rig.


----------



## Ancestor (Feb 12, 2006)

WTF-ever. I like my Mac, because it's always the same - every time I turn it on. There are no radical configuration changes or necessary antivirus/spyware updates.

When I go to Morrisound to record, it's done on an Apple ProTools system. FCP was the first good affordable video editing program. Macs are made for artists to create art. The entire graphics department of my college is Mac-driven. 

And, if you think UNIX is less efficient than some user interface that runs on top of DOS, you're nuts.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 12, 2006)

Ancestor said:


> And, if you think UNIX is less efficient than some user interface that runs on top of DOS, you're nuts.



Dude, maybe I misunderstand you, but Windows has been independant of DOS since 1998 or so.

I do think Windows sucks, though. Just requires *way* too much upkeep or else it self-destructs quite rapidly.


----------



## Ken (Feb 12, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Dude, maybe I misunderstand you, but Windows has been independant of DOS since 1998 or so.
> 
> I do think Windows sucks, though. Just requires *way* too much upkeep or else it self-destructs quite rapidly.



Windows doesn't suck. Of course it requires upkeep. Users demand more and more, and web sites continue to develop applications which take advantage of the client-side processing power.

Windows has to be kept-up to the constant evolution of the Internet.


----------



## Ancestor (Feb 12, 2006)

Eh... I just get so sick of dealing with all the crap that you have to allow for with Windows. Don't get me wrong, on my PC I have SoundForge, ACID, ProTools, Vegas and a bunch of other stuff. 

I love the integration of the programs, but I hate how much maintenance is required. My mac loads within 120 seconds EVERY SINGLE TIME. 

Still, my buddy, who works on the city of Clearwater's network as admin, is able to produce some very smooth results for PC. I think it may be just a question of having the "know how".


----------



## bostjan (Feb 12, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> Windows doesn't suck. Of course it requires upkeep. Users demand more and more, and web sites continue to develop applications which take advantage of the client-side processing power.
> 
> Windows has to be kept-up to the constant evolution of the Internet.



I meant up-keep as in deletion of viruses and spyware, along with spending $$ on new anti-virus and anti-spyware to detect and delete said programs.

Anything that crashes as much as windows sucks. I'm not saying mac is much better. It costs more money, but you don't have to worry so much about picking up hijackers and crap. Windows certainly crushes mac for compatibility, but if there waqs no advantage in mac, it certainly wouldn't exist to this day.


----------



## Leon (Feb 12, 2006)

i dig my Linux. i doubt i will ever go back to Windows or Mac. like John said, they're just logical 

(of course, i think most all physicists end up running unix/linux systems  )


----------



## Ken (Feb 12, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I meant up-keep as in deletion of viruses and spyware, along with spending $$ on new anti-virus and anti-spyware to detect and delete said programs.


There are resources such as housecall.antivirus.com that provide free virus/spyware detection and deletion. Adaware also is free.


bostjan said:


> Anything that crashes as much as windows sucks. I'm not saying mac is much better. It costs more money, but you don't have to worry so much about picking up hijackers and crap. Windows certainly crushes mac for compatibility, but if there waqs no advantage in mac, it certainly wouldn't exist to this day.



How often does Windows crash? Mine? Never. It may be bogged-down by too many things running, but that's a system resource issue, not an O/S problem. 

Users are more to blame for their problems than Windows is. They want to have P2P filesharing, download games, view porn, and watch funny little executables. And they want it ALL for free and they want it RIGHT NOW.

Trouble is, they don't think. They just keep clicking "OK" when Windows is trying to warn them they're making a mistake. Is that Windows problem? No. Windows will give you as much rope as you want to hang yourself because it's trying to make your life easier.

As an aside, I don't think Macs suck.


----------



## Jesse (Feb 12, 2006)

Im buying a mac for recording, their shit for anything else.


----------



## DSS3 (Feb 12, 2006)

I didn't read every post; I don't need to.

Mac vs. PC boils down to personal preference, just like Mesa vs. Marshall.


If it weren't for the cost factor, though, I'd be using a MacBook and Digital Performer.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 12, 2006)

Leon said:


> i dig my Linux. i doubt i will ever go back to Windows or Mac. like John said, they're just logical
> 
> (of course, i think most all physicists end up running unix/linux systems  )



Most Theorists seem to stick to unix so they can share their FORTRAN codes more easily. Every experimentalist I know uses either PC or mac. Linux seems popular with Math people.

I think they all have their share of strengths/weakness (price notwithstanding)


----------



## Vegetta (Feb 12, 2006)

darren said:


> Keychain Manager has nothing to do with allowing or not allowing people to use software... it just manages permissions and passwords.
> 
> Fonts can be installed per-user or system-wide. It all just depends on if you put them in the user's font directory or the system font directory.
> 
> ...



the keychain manager continually asks for passwords If I am loggin in as a user with admin access it should never ask me for a password 

Installing fonts on a user basis vs system

if You install fonts per user it Totally fucks up Photoshop, In Design and Illustrator (not to mention MS Word 2003) font errors are no fun/ It especially fucks up in design - when you export a job and the printers cannot use a file because the fonts are all fucked up then yes that is a serious problem. 

I didnt really bust on garage band It is ok considering it is free - it does not have the functionality of Sonic or cubase but it works (Or I would not be able to use it for Video BG music) 

I am not talking shit, simply stating how a mac has treated me- I am no computer nub Like i said in my post BOTH systems have their problems (There are things in windows that drive me batshit as well) 

There are things about the mac i like (Final cut HD FTW) But goging a a strict price basis I will pick a PC every time (low Price FTW)


----------



## Vegetta (Feb 12, 2006)

Chris said:


> I'm not a mac guy at all, but I'd love a mac recording rig.




Lol- it has its good days and its bad- none of the music I've done has been anything spectacular but sometimes it can be fun- usually tho I have to churn out stuff asap so I can't really get too crazy.


----------



## Mastodon (Feb 12, 2006)

Who the hell cares? The mac is safer. 

If I were a recording artist, I would own a mac. I am not however, so I dual boot Linux and XP. XP for gaming, linux for everything else. 

GOOOOOOOO RED HAT! WHOO!


----------



## gojira (Feb 13, 2006)

7stringninja said:


> I have been a die-hard PC guy my whole life. Everyone has always said "Macs are better for music and art" but I just never bought into it.
> 
> However, I am at the point now, where I wouldn't mind having a Mac IN ADDITION to my PC. In addition to playing guitar, I also like to delve into electronic music production, and even some rap. I use alot of Propellerheads software, which is available for both PC and OSX, but I've used both, and OSX beats it hands down. Also, Logic (the program) is now exclusive to OSX.
> 
> I'll continue to use my PC for web/games/misc while the Mac is going to be dedicated for music and such. I won't have to worry about deleting funny videos that I want to keep, so that I can make room on my harddrive to store my new song idea.



DONT buy into the whole "macs are better for creative people" bullshit - they became the industry standard in the eightees and since then have fallen way behind the pc platform for graphics by miles - I haven't worked in an fx house that uses macs for the last ten years.

Logic has now returned to the PC BTW - it's once again cross platform.

OSX is a nicer platform in my opinion, but the audio performance of mac and pc depends entirely on the card in the machine - I've seen nothing that proves one is better than the other - although you certainly get twicew the speed out of the PC for the same money......

dont be so eager to own one of those bloody cheese-graters.


----------



## darren (Feb 13, 2006)

Logic is not available for Windows. Apple has just released a "Universal binary" version that will run on PowerPC and Intel-based Macs.

When ProTools first came out for Windows (after being a Mac-exclusive for years), tons of recording studios went out and bought Windows machines for their ProTools rigs. Many of them have since switched back.

You have to be very specific when you're talking about "graphics". In 2D design, they still pretty much rule the roost. Mac OS has always handled typography better than Windows, and continues to. Having used Illustrator and Photoshop on both platforms, i find they perform equally well, but to get the best performance out of Photoshop under Windows, you MUST partition your drive and put your Photoshop scratch on a different partition than your OS, otherwise the Windows scratch disk and Photoshop end up tripping over each other. From a usability perspective, i prefer the Mac... the interfaces from one application to the next are more consistent.

In 3D, you're right... Windows is far more common, and there are more choices available, from CAD through 3D modeling and rendering. Some high-end options are available on OS X now, but it's rare to find a 3D artist that works on a Mac.


----------



## noodles (Feb 13, 2006)

darren said:


> In 3D, you're right... Windows is far more common, and there are more choices available, from CAD through 3D modeling and rendering. Some high-end options are available on OS X now, but it's rare to find a 3D artist that works on a Mac.



Unless you have bottomless pockets, and you step up to a *real* platform, like SGI.


----------



## darren (Feb 13, 2006)

Yeah, but we're talking about desktop computers here. SGI had such potential, but now they're pretty much a tiny niche player. Even the high-end studios don't use SGI any more. Pixar runs off proprietary software, and their render farms are full of Suns. (Or they used to be.)


----------



## Rev2010 (Feb 13, 2006)

ILM moved over to using Linux on PC systems ever since Maya came out for Linux 


Rev.


----------



## Jeff (Feb 14, 2006)

noodles said:


> Unless you have bottomless pockets, and you step up to a *real* platform, like SGI.



SGI is obsolete and failed to keep up with the times. Now they're struggling and people can care less about their fancy crap, when they can throw a ton of commodity Linux machines together and render. 

See Yoda or the battle scene from Lord of the Rings: A Two Towers for examples.


----------



## gojira (Feb 14, 2006)

darren said:


> Logic is not available for Windows. Apple has just released a "Universal binary" version that will run on PowerPC and Intel-based Macs.
> 
> When ProTools first came out for Windows (after being a Mac-exclusive for years), tons of recording studios went out and bought Windows machines for their ProTools rigs. Many of them have since switched back.
> 
> ...



thanks for clearing that up about logic - 

let me ask you though - if I go out and spend 5000 dollars on a mac and 4000 dollars on a PC, which one is going to perform better for any of the tasks you have mentioned - I wouldn't put my money on the mac, and thats the one and only reason why I'll never buy one, I use one for a few clients i work for, but those are their machines. The old eightees dinosaurs still love there macs - and I'm yet to be given a reason why - aside from the fact that old habits die hard - the performance on them is ordinary. It's not really a question of what, but why - and i simply dont get it.

I have not in a single instance been convinced or even been hinted to why the mac is "better" for anything - and as they are considerably slower machines (again) i cant figure it out -


----------



## gojira (Feb 14, 2006)

Jeff said:


> SGI is obsolete and failed to keep up with the times. Now they're struggling and people can care less about their fancy crap, when they can throw a ton of commodity Linux machines together and render.
> 
> See Yoda or the battle scene from Lord of the Rings: A Two Towers for examples.



SGI went fucking stupid - there machines still cost a fortune, and the performance is lacklustre for anything but tasks requiring massive amounts of cache - and even then they are pretty ordinary. I dont even know if they are still around.


----------



## darren (Feb 14, 2006)

You use best what you use most. I've been using Macs as a professional graphic designer for more than a decade. I know from experience that i'm MUCH more productive using OS X than i am using Windows or (shudder) Mac OS 9, and that goes beyond the CPU and graphics card speed, the hard drive and RAM configuration. It's about actually getting the work done. 

And for me, getting the work done means i earn more money in less time with less headaches, no downtime and i don't have to pay some IT guy with Microsoft qualifications up the yin-yang just to keep my machine from imploding.

Using a Mac is _a business decision_ for me, not because i'm "some eighties dinosaur" too stuck in my ways to change. Macs also have a longer useful life and a higher resale value than a Windows machine.


----------



## Jeff (Feb 15, 2006)

I think it's best summed up by what I did Monday night. 3 hours, $300 to set up a small business network, including locking down wireless, setting up VPN, and making sure there was a myriad of virus and spyware protection, along with a checklist of maintenence items to go through weekly/monthly. 

All because Windows is too convoluted for the average user to secure easily. I don't think it's ease of use. Windows is easy to use. It's how easy something is to secure that is the key issue with OS's these days.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 15, 2006)

darren said:


> And for me, getting the work done means i earn more money in less time with less headaches, no downtime and i don't have to pay some IT guy with Microsoft qualifications up the yin-yang just to keep my machine from imploding.


I've never read a single MSCE book or anything and for the most part, i've never needed any 3rd party help(except that thread i started.. then i realized i needed to format my drive for FAT32 instead of NTFS). I've built every computer i've ever owned, as well. Anyone with a little common sense can work on a PC without worrying about it too much. I'm glad i dont have a computer i have to take to a 'registered resale/repair center" whenever i have a problem, and that if i DO have a problem i can go to any store that carries computer parts and get what i need for cheap. 

As far as resale value, i actually think that its irrelevant. Cause i never have sold a computer i've owned. the main box i had for years just kept getting upgraded over time, to the point where there were no original parts.
On top of that, i could built a very solid machine from the ground up for less than 700-800$.. which is a LOT less than 1200$ for the cheapest mac


----------



## gojira (Feb 15, 2006)

darren said:


> You use best what you use most. I've been using Macs as a professional graphic designer for more than a decade. I know from experience that i'm MUCH more productive using OS X than i am using Windows or (shudder) Mac OS 9, and that goes beyond the CPU and graphics card speed, the hard drive and RAM configuration. It's about actually getting the work done.
> 
> And for me, getting the work done means i earn more money in less time with less headaches, no downtime and i don't have to pay some IT guy with Microsoft qualifications up the yin-yang just to keep my machine from imploding.
> 
> Using a Mac is _a business decision_ for me, not because i'm "some eighties dinosaur" too stuck in my ways to change. Macs also have a longer useful life and a higher resale value than a Windows machine.



Sorry man but i have to laugh! - this is exactly what i mean - you use mac because you always have - "they have a longer useful life" - what on earth does that mean? 

To be perfectly honest I vastly preffer OSX to windows from an end user perspective, however operating system has never impeded the speed of my productivity much. I'm currently typing this on a PC - in a few hours i need to go work on a g5 - neither machine bothers - but my only point is/was - one of these machines is faster than the other and it was half the price.

What i would like to see is mac dispose of their hardware completely - which in a way they have already done, and start to push macosx as a real alternative to wondows - that would be nice.


----------



## darren (Feb 15, 2006)

How has Apple disposed of their hardware?


----------



## Mykie (Feb 15, 2006)

PC - Gaming
Mac - Video, webdesign, and recording music


----------



## gojira (Feb 15, 2006)

darren said:


> How has Apple disposed of their hardware?



they have shifted to x86 architecture - they haven't really disposed of it, but it's definately a step in that direction - running mac osx wont be a problem on a pc - it wont be legal, and you may need to fuck around a bit - but it will work. I think with time the mac will just turn into a pc -


----------



## anarchistwar (Feb 15, 2006)

he wasn't using OSX i assume....


----------



## darren (Feb 15, 2006)

Apple makes too much money on their hardware to abandon it. Time will tell if the hackers can keep one step ahead of Apple locking the OS out of non-Apple hardware.

Just because they've moved to Intel chipsets doesn't mean OS X will run on white-box Intel hardware. There are plenty of PowerPC-based machines (like XBOX 360) that you can't run OS X for PowerPC on.


----------



## gojira (Feb 16, 2006)

darren said:


> Apple makes too much money on their hardware to abandon it. Time will tell if the hackers can keep one step ahead of Apple locking the OS out of non-Apple hardware.
> 
> Just because they've moved to Intel chipsets doesn't mean OS X will run on white-box Intel hardware. There are plenty of PowerPC-based machines (like XBOX 360) that you can't run OS X for PowerPC on.



well considering it's already been done - I'd argue with that -


----------



## Jeff (Feb 16, 2006)

gojira said:


> well considering it's already been done - I'd argue with that -



Yeah, it's been done. With little drivers available, and no support. MMmm sounds good to me!


----------



## Skeksis (Feb 20, 2006)

Well I don't know about earlier versions of Mac OS, but X has never crashed or locked up on me. I'm a PC user because I was raised with PCs, but Macs still kick ass.


----------



## Metal Ken (Feb 21, 2006)

regarding the cost of both systems, check this out: 
for 350$+tax last night, i bought a AMD 64 3000+ CPU/Mobo Combo(179$), a cheap case(50$), 512 DDR Ram (75$) and a few fans. I used my old video card and hard drives, and i now have a rather serious computer for 350$. with the exception of an old video card (only 128 meg vid ram), everything's pretty much uptodate. I got 310 gigs of hard drive space as well. Boots up in 20 seconds. its glorious. PC FTW \m/


----------

