# Equalization 101



## Nik (Mar 10, 2007)

First of all, I'd like to say that I looked around on-line, and across these forums, and I wasn't able to find a satisfactory tutorial on how to equalize tracks. If I've somehow missed something and this thread is a waste, please feel free to close it mods  

Now, I've decided I need to learn this to clean up my mixes. It's bulb's insistance that all the tonal magic happens during mastering that is the driving force for me here. Unfortunately, while this site has an excellent thread on Compression, it has nothing on Equalization, which is a pity since Equalization is much more important IMO (I've heard many mixes with little or no compression sound amazing because of a proper EQ job).

I've decided I have to learn this. So maybe you guys can give me a hand, and if this thread helps other people, then all the better.

I know nothing about compression, but here's an EQ curve I've been messing with (note: this is just for reference):







Now, this makes powerchords sound crystal-clear in a mix, but somewhat feeble as well (I've been using bulb's rhythm tone lately). Here are my questions:

1. Right now I'm trying to EQ on the basis of what my lowest note is. For example, on a song that's in drop A, I make it so the EQ curve drops once you get below 55 hz (frequency of A). Is it right to make the cut-off point at exactly the lowest frequencies you're dealing with, or should I make the threshhold lower (ie 50 hz) just to give guitars more room?

2. As you can see from the above curive, I'm not boosting any frequencies--I'm only lowering the volume of the 'unnecessary' frequencies. Is this a mistake? Would boosting certain frequencies clear up the mix/improve tone? If so, which frequencies should I boost?

3. As you can see in the curve, I made the high-frequencies (overtones I guess) lower in volume past 1000 hz. Obviously, cutting these frequencies from a rhythm mix helps a lot (and takes away that annoying 'fizz' quality that line6 amp models have). But is 1000hz a good cut-off point? If not, where should I set it?

4. Should I apply the same equalization curve to leads as I do for rhythm, or draw an entirely new one? Or is EQ not necessary for leads?

5. Is there anything else I can do to make my EQ curve better?

As you may have noticed, I'm pretty much asking you guys to help me draw a proper EQ curve to use, but I'm sure this will help a lot of mixing n00bs like me  

Lastly, the above-posted pic is just for reference. Here's the EQ I'm using now (I need help with the parameters, which answers to my questions will hopefully do). If you have any tips on how to set proper paramaters, please refer to this EQ:


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## Nik (Mar 11, 2007)

Maybe I shouldn't have written such a novel of a first post.

Let me shorten up what I said--can someone show me what a proper EQ curve looks like (with specific parameters for low, low-mid,high, and high-mid frequencies?


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## TomAwesome (Mar 11, 2007)

Maybe the reason you're not getting much of a response is because it's kind of a general thing to cover in a single response, especially since "better" is really dependent on what you're trying to do and what's going on in the rest of the mix. A given curve that sounds great with one mix might ruin another one. I subscribed to this thread with the original post 'cause I'm a relative n00blet to this stuff too, but one thing I can suggest is that to make the different instrument parts all clear in the mix, give each instrument its own dominant frequency range. If it helps any, my guitars usually get a cut somewhere in the range of 600Hz-1000Hz and a boost somewhere in the range of 6.3kHz-8kHz with a low cut at about 70Hz and a high cut at about 10kHz or 12kHz.


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## Seedawakener (Mar 11, 2007)

I need help on the same subject... Oh mighty lord Bulb... Please help us out. I will award thee with many rep-points.


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## Drew (Mar 11, 2007)

Nik said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have written such a novel of a first post.
> 
> Let me shorten up what I said--can someone show me what a proper EQ curve looks like (with specific parameters for low, low-mid,high, and high-mid frequencies?



IT depends HUGELY on the instrument in question, and what that instrument's doing (i.e - bass, lead guitar,rhythm guitar, kick drum, whatever).

Also, don't think of them as "graphic" curves, but rather think of the frequencies you're boosting and cutting, rather than curvy lines. 

I'm about to hop into the shower, but here's a pretty good rough guideline to what to boost or cut in a mix - don't take it as gospel (the use a Q of about 1.0 for nearly everything, which I think is kind of wide - I use higher Q's (read - more focused adjustments) a lot of the time), but as general advice it's a good starting point.

Also worth noting - the low B on a seven string is about 68hz. Anything below that is basically worthless, and honestly a lot of the fundamental can be cut too without hurting the guitar much in the mix, if you have a good bass tone - I think Vince usually does a high pass around 120hz, and depending on how sharp the cutoff is you can get away with anywhere from 80-120for rhythms without making them sound too anemic in the mix. Leads, I'll generally go a bit higher, maybe 120-160 or so. Sure, your guitar won't sound as full on its own, but the idea is clarity within the mix, not a kickass guitar sound when you mute everything else. 


http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php


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## Nik (Mar 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> IT depends HUGELY on the instrument in question, and what that instrument's doing (i.e - bass, lead guitar,rhythm guitar, kick drum, whatever).
> 
> Also, don't think of them as "graphic" curves, but rather think of the frequencies you're boosting and cutting, rather than curvy lines.
> 
> ...



 

Cool, that's the kind of stuff I was looking for!

I realize that different types of stuff require different mixes, so I'll just say that I'm looking for EQing tips for a standard 7-string guitar + bass + drums mix (nothing fancy). I just want to get the basics for these 3 fundamental instruments down. Once I understand those, I'm sure I'll be able to learn how to make extra space for additional instruments. 

I think if we can outline a simple EQing primer for these 3 instruments, it'd be useful to a lot of people here. Thanks a bunch for the link! I'll start messing around with those settings and see it how it goes


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## Drew (Mar 12, 2007)

I keep hoping Vince writes one, but if I somehow finish my CD before that point, and get to the point where I feel comfortable writing tutorial material by that point, I'll write something. 

Real thumbnail sketch type stuff, though - the bass, 7-string, and kick drum all fall pretty heavily in the low end. You've gotta make some tradeoffs if you want a really clear sounding mix with heavy powerchords on the low string. Definitely axing the lowest frequencies on the guitar helps, but that still leaves you with a full guitar/bass spread the kick drum has to fight. I've found going about it the Devin Townsend way (spin "Terria" to hear what I'm talking about) kind of works - rather than trying to bring out the "thump" of the kick, try to bring out the attack. It's not the greatest kickdrum sound I've ever heard but the mix on Terria rules, and part of the reason is the kick drum is so crisp. Try using a fairly heavy compression with a relatively slow attack so that the initial attack of the drum comes through but then the "body" of the kick gets clamped down on, coupled with some EQ'ing to take out some of the bass frequencies and just let the attack of the pedal against the drum head carry the kick drum sound. 

You're probably going to want a second compressor to take the edge off that attack too, but nothing major.


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## Nik (Mar 12, 2007)

I'll spend a long time messing around with it and report my findings. My bassist is coming over to record next week, so I'll post something then (unless I decide to try and record something simple in the meantime).


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## Vince (Mar 13, 2007)

Drew said:


> I keep hoping Vince writes one



You remember all our PMs this last year and the hell I went through with EQ? 

I'm avoiding that shit like the plague right now


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## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 13, 2007)

What frequency range does "hiss" occupy? Cause I'd like to cut out hiss without losing the clarity of the high notes.


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## Drew (Mar 13, 2007)

All_¥our_Bass;421158 said:


> What frequency range does "hiss" occupy? Cause I'd like to cut out hiss without losing the clarity of the high notes.



Don't we all.  

You can try to axe it with a notch filter with a VERY high Q (read = narrow) but this isn't perfectly transparent and takes a while to dial in. Your best bet is to use some sort of specific noise-reduction software where it can create a "sound profile" of the hiss, and then use that as a basis to remove it from a track, but again this also tends to impact the high end of your recording a bit. 

Your best bet is to take this sort of approach, but treat the offending tracks, rather than your whole mix. Additionally, if you're, say, recording a guitar part that has some hiss to it, and there's maybe 5 seconds of silence before the first guitar chord, manually cut out all the audio data right up before that first note. Your ear is much less likely to notice a bit of background hiss in a full mix on a busy guitar part than just sort of sitting out alone hissing away merrily with nothing to mask it. 

Actually, scratch that. Your BEST bet is to do everything you can to simply not capture hiss in the first place.  anything you can do to maximize your signal-to-noise ratio is good news. 

Not only do I remember, Vince, I'm planning on picking your brain when it comes time to mix. 



[action=Drew]figures Vince only has six or seven years to prepare. :/[/action]


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## Nik (Mar 13, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, scratch that. Your BEST bet is to do everything you can to simply not capture hiss in the first place.  anything you can do to maximize your signal-to-noise ratio is good news.



Actually, it's worth noting that Bulb's rhythm tone sounds extremely hissy without any post-recording work on it. However, evidently with some proper EQing and processing, he can get the hiss to go away and make his tone sound like a million bucks  

Since Vince is avoiding EQ, maybe we need to get bulb in here  

AYB: lowing frequencies above 1500 hz - 2000 hz by about 2 db did wonders for me when it comes to removing hiss. Unfortunately, it does suck a bit out of your tone, but there is a balance (different for every mix) that you just have to experiment with to find  

I'll try and put some tracks down today


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## Drew (Mar 13, 2007)

My money is that's noise reduction software and not EQ, Nik, but I could be wrong. Bulb?


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## Vince (Mar 13, 2007)

For noise reduction, I used Adobe Audition's included hiss reducer.

You have to be very careful though. Let's take acoustic guitars for example. On one of my songs, we decided to use an SM57 & a Beta SM58 for the acoustic guitar mics, because we wanted a different sound for those songs (usually I'll use two condenser mics).

The pros? The sound was very bright and full.

The cons? Hiss up your ass. Fuck it was horrible.

But I loved the sound, and it was cool to have a different acoustic guitar sound than we had on other songs on the disc. The problem is that the hiss & the acoustic guitar's frequencies overlap, so you have to play a game of how much of the guitar's natural sound are you willing to sacrifice to eliminate the hiss.

One theory is to take all the hiss out and a little of the top end of the guitar, then try to add it back later with a high boost EQ. That can work, and sometimes reverb & delay can add the highs back to the sound too.

Drew's idea works well too, but you have to have really good hiss reduction software.

What I did, was leave a little bit of the hiss in there and let the reverb & delay mask it. The guitar sounds full bodied.

Adobe Audition / Cool Edit Pro has a great hiss reducer in it, and what I'll do is reverse it so I can hear nothing but the noise it's taking out, and I'll make sure it's just hiss and not actually the instrument. Then I'll reverse it back and take out the hiss.

Drew, I'm speaking specifically of track 10 on the album, "The Light", the acoustic song.


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## Nik (Mar 13, 2007)

Alright guys, I slapped a crappy clip together to test all of the stuff I learned here. Unfortunately, I somehow ended up overwriting the initial, un-mastered recording, so I can't do comparison clips, but you can rest assured that it sounded muddy, fizzy, and just downright awful compared to the finished clip I'm posting here.

Anyway, don't judge the playing, I just did two quick takes and slapped this together (and then spent hours messing around with EQ settings  ). I'm sure that if I took my time and recorded this cleaner, it'll sound crisper. Anyway, here's the clip:

[MEDIA]http://home.comcast.net/~petsev/TESTTEST.mp3[/MEDIA]
----------------------------------------------
Here's a running list of all of the EQing and other work I did:

*Kick drum:*
-6 db at 400 hz
+4 at 5000 hz

*Snare:*
+4 db at 7000 hz
+2 db at 12000 hz

*Entire drumkit:*
-4db at 400 hz
+4 db at 12000

*Bass:*
-2 db at 30 hz
+4 db at 400 hz
+2 db at 1500 hz

*Guitar*
-4 db at 60 hz
+2 db at 3000 hz
-2 db at around 10000 hz to remove hiss (might need a bit more, still hiss is still present)

I also ran the bass through the compressor with the following settings:

Threshold: -6 db
Ratio: 4:1
Attack time: 0.1 seconds

No compression was used on any of the other instruments
----------------------------------------

As a whole, I'm fairly satisfied with how it sounds, and if I didn't suck that much (this was my first attempt at really playing bass lol) it would sound great. There's two aspects you can hear in the clip that I don't like, though:

1. palm-muted guitar notes just sound... weak. They sound pretty good on bulb's un-EQ-ed tone. Any ideas on how to adjust these EQ settings to preserve the 'oompf' of the palm-muted notes?

2. While really low powerchords sound awesome with these settings, higher ones (like the A chord) sound rather weak. Any ideas on how to make them sound just as full?


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## g3rmanium (Mar 14, 2007)

Nik said:


> 1. Right now I'm trying to EQ on the basis of what my lowest note is. For example, on a song that's in drop A, I make it so the EQ curve drops once you get below 55 hz (frequency of A). Is it right to make the cut-off point at exactly the lowest frequencies you're dealing with, or should I make the threshhold lower (ie 50 hz) just to give guitars more room?



Technically, the filter frequency is at -3 dB so you'd go lower. But then...



Nik said:


> 2. As you can see from the above curive, I'm not boosting any frequencies--I'm only lowering the volume of the 'unnecessary' frequencies. Is this a mistake? Would boosting certain frequencies clear up the mix/improve tone? If so, which frequencies should I boost?
> 
> 3. As you can see in the curve, I made the high-frequencies (overtones I guess) lower in volume past 1000 hz. Obviously, cutting these frequencies from a rhythm mix helps a lot (and takes away that annoying 'fizz' quality that line6 amp models have). But is 1000hz a good cut-off point? If not, where should I set it?
> 
> ...



...there are no rules in music. Whatever sounds good to you is ok.

I use a frequency analyzer when EQing and diagnosing sounds. It helps me a lot seeing why certain sounds sound the way they sound.





Also, you can often correct even very bad sounding recordings if you know where and how to EQ. Of course, a lot of this can be done without an analyzer, but I'm faster with one.

If you want, I can make some screenshots of curves I have used. Just to give you an example of how many EQs you can use at once.


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## Drew (Mar 14, 2007)

desertdweller said:


> What I did, was leave a little bit of the hiss in there and let the reverb & delay mask it. The guitar sounds full bodied.



Yeah, that's the thing I missed - expecting to remove ALL of the hiss from a recording with noticeable hissing is probably not realistic. Instead, just focus on getting the hiss down to less noticeable levels, and allowing the mix to "hide" the hiss.


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## Nik (Mar 14, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> Technically, the filter frequency is at -3 dB so you'd go lower. But then...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool man, thanks! Are you specifically talking about EQing guitars?

Anyway, check out my previous post (the one with the crappy soundclip). I'm pretty happy with those EQ settings in general, I think the drums and bass sound great. The only thing I'm not 100% happy with right now is the guitars for two reasons:

1.) The palm-muted notes lack power--they just sound really thin. Any tips? If I can get that palm-muted 'oomph' like on the rhythm tone on James LaBrie's solo album, I'd be the happiest person in the world. What do you think about maybe lowering the 60 hz point by only 2 db instead of 4?

2.) there is still some 'hiss' left.

If someone can help me get these two things sorted by slightly adjusting my EQ parameters, I'd be one happy camper (and we'd have basic outline for EQing 7-string guitars + bass + drums for other n00bs like me )


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## g3rmanium (Mar 14, 2007)

Nik said:


> Cool man, thanks! Are you specifically talking about EQing guitars?



No, anything. It's just that, in the past, I always had to work the most on my guitars. 



Nik said:


> Anyway, check out my previous post (the one with the crappy soundclip).



I think the guitar and bass sound great in that clip (I'd play something else with the bass from time to time to ensure it's perceived as a different element, but that's just me). The drums however don't do it for me. The snare and hihat are very bright and don't work very well with the guitar that sounds rather dark. I think there's also a lack of ambience and glue to the drums. Maybe some compression would help here along with some ambience reverb.


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## TomAwesome (Mar 14, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> The drums however don't do it for me. The snare and hihat are very bright and don't work very well with the guitar that sounds rather dark. I think there's also a lack of ambience and glue to the drums. Maybe some compression would help here along with some ambience reverb.



I'm definitely a n00b to anything related to recording, but isn't compressing drums one of the first things you're _not_ supposed to do to them?


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## g3rmanium (Mar 14, 2007)

TomAwesome said:


> I'm definitely a n00b to anything related to recording, but isn't compressing drums one of the first things you're _not_ supposed to do to them?



No?


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## Matt Crooks (Mar 14, 2007)

TomAwesome said:


> I'm definitely a n00b to anything related to recording, but isn't compressing drums one of the first things you're _not_ supposed to do to them?



Every metal record has compression on the drums. Usually the kicks are compressed to within an inch of their lives, and the snare is compressed so that the pop comes through and the body disappears. Overheads will be compressed some so that they sit better in the mix, and toms will be compressed as well. Then there's the trick of sending your drums to a bus, compressing that bus heavily and then mixing the compressed sound in with the main tracks....


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## TomAwesome (Mar 14, 2007)

Ah, I guess I'm probably wrong then! I've just heard a lot of people before talk about how compressing drums is bad, especially cymbals since supposedly it makes them ring and sustain unnaturally. I guess that gives me one more thing to tinker with in my DFH file.


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## zimbloth (Mar 14, 2007)

Drew said:


> Definitely axing the lowest frequencies on the guitar helps, but that still leaves you with a full guitar/bass spread the kick drum has to fight.



A pro engineer once told me, the way around this was to have the kick drums 100% left/right and put the bass in the center... then they don't clash. I've been using that method and it works well.

PS: Usually I can get rid of hiss by just rolling off all frequencies above what the guitar actually encompasses, which is aroudn 5khz more or less.


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## Christopher (Mar 14, 2007)

Matt Crooks said:


> Every metal record has compression on the drums. Usually the kicks are compressed to within an inch of their lives, and the snare is compressed so that the pop comes through and the body disappears. Overheads will be compressed some so that they sit better in the mix, and toms will be compressed as well. Then there's the trick of sending your drums to a bus, compressing that bus heavily and then mixing the compressed sound in with the main tracks....



Yep, and most metal records are "strengthened" by samples on top of it.

I myself am a fan of bus compressing my drums. I'll feed the entire drum kit into a stereo bus and squish the fuckin' hell out it. Then, I'll blend that in with the uncompressed version to get a little extra oomph.

I'm also a big fan (when speaking of EQ) of the sweep and suck technique. Take a narrow Q and boost it to hell and back. Then take the freq dial and sweep it until the sound sucks hard. Then you take that freq and cut there.


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## Drew (Mar 14, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> A pro engineer once told me, the way around this was to have the kick drums 100% left/right and put the bass in the center... then they don't clash. I've been using that method and it works well.
> 
> PS: Usually I can get rid of hiss by just rolling off all frequencies above what the guitar actually encompasses, which is aroudn 5khz more or less.



That works to a point, zimbloth, but isn't really an answer - for one (Captian Obvious moment, here we come) that's only really appropriate when you're dealing with a double kick. Additionally, if your mix is summed to mono or played back on a system with unexceptional stereo seperation, then you're back to square one. There's a school of thought that says you shouldn't mix for the lowest common denominator so you shouldn't mix as if your mix would be heard in or near mono, and while I buy that to a certain degree, panning your kicks hard left and right so they leave room for the bass strikes me as just being lazy, rather than spending some time really getting the frequencies to work together, and then maybe panning each kick slightly to the left and the right, if you like that sound. 

The guy may be a "pro," but how many mixes can you think of with a hard-panned kick drum sound? I'm drawing a blank here. 

Also, chopping off everything at 5k, while I'm sure will quell hiss, will also SERIOUSLY impact the sound of your guitar. It might work in a mix, sure, but it's also a pretty heavyhanded EQ tweak and doesn't leave the sound of the guitar unchanged. Again, if rolling off all that high end makes the guitar sit in the mix, then sure, but that's definitely within the guitar's "treble" frequencies - the 5-8k range really covers a good sized chunk of the guitar's high end.


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## Nik (Mar 14, 2007)

lol this thread is about equalization guys, not compression  There's actually a really nice thread on compression that's stickied at the top for your viewing pleasure.

Anyway, I talked to bulb, and apparently he doesn't use any filters whatsoever--he gets rid of the hiss 100% by simply using an equalizer, so apparently there is some sweet spot to be found.

I went through and just visually moved the EQ point until the hiss went away, and I ended up with a high pass as follows:

-6.0 db at 3348 hz

That sounds pretty extreme, although bulb's rhythm tone didn't really seem to suffer a whole *lot *of loss of tone other than the hiss being removed, but there is still a noticable shift in tone. I'll report any new findings as I keep on messing with this.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 14, 2007)

TomAwesome said:


> I'm definitely a n00b to anything related to recording, but isn't compressing drums one of the first things you're _not_ supposed to do to them?


 
Yes and no. When people are complaining about compression on anything, they mean it's been TOO compressed. A little compression is good and makes things sound better (a little louder and more "even"). But recently many mixes have been done where the compress the living shit out of everything and then turn it as loud as it will go. This leads to everything being of almost the same volume instead of having some areas being loud and others being quiet, everything is as loud as can be.

Take a good look at this thread for more information.



Drew said:


> Don't we all.
> 
> You can try to axe it with a notch filter with a VERY high Q (read = narrow) but this isn't perfectly transparent and takes a while to dial in. Your best bet is to use some sort of specific noise-reduction software where it can create a "sound profile" of the hiss, and then use that as a basis to remove it from a track, but again this also tends to impact the high end of your recording a bit.
> 
> ...


 
I actually do have access to the noise profile method. But because if you tell it to take as much noise out as possible you these really birght "sparkle" artifacts. So I was thinking I could just EQU out like 75-90% of the noise without other wierd noises being thrown in. But as was posted earlier it's better to "remove enough so that the mix covers the rest up" which I originally thought that was a kind of corner cutting for those to lazy to go the extra mile and clean up every bit of noise the best they could. I see this theory has been proven wrong.


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## Lamb (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm using a patch very similar to Misha's, I just turned down the presence a bit. Here is a little test I just made:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=622919&songID=5115795

First clip

Rhythm: 3.9db at 2000.0Hz 1.7Q (I think it's called?) "hi mid"

Lead: flat

Second clip

Rhythm: 3.9db at 2000.0Hz 1.7Q "hi mid", -6.0 3840.0 Hz "hi"

Lead: -6.0db at 4823.0Hz "hi"

I tried adding Nik's EQ along with my previous EQ. I can't really tell which I like more. You can definitely notice a difference in hiss. I think if the second clip's guitars were turned up a little bit it'd sound pretty good. What do you guys think?


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## Nik (Mar 15, 2007)

Lamb said:


> I'm using a patch very similar to Misha's, I just turned down the presence a bit. Here is a little test I just made:
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=622919&songID=5115795
> 
> First clip
> ...



I think the second clip definitely sounds a bit cleaner, although it's harder to tell as the guitars are lower in the mix. I see you also used a pretty extreme 'hi' EQ, so I guess that's just something that works with this type of tone without sucking out too much tone.

It also seems to me that if you have cymbals pretty prominently in the mix, the hiss gets sort of lost in the cymbals, which is a good thing. Maybe the the answer lies in adjusting the EQ settings for the cymbals and guitar simultaneously so they sort of work together... ?

Still, there must be a 'sweet-spot' on the EQ curve somewhere that works 100% perfectly, so that's what I'll be looking for today--bulb assured me of that


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## Drew (Mar 15, 2007)

Well, yes - the hiss is at a particular frequency due to its very nature. However, the problem is, it's quite possible that an aspect of the gutiar tone that appeals to you is ALSO at that very frequency, and that by axing it you'll negatively impact your guitar tone. It's also possible that you'll need too hit higher-order harmonics of that same frequency as well - pull up a 60hz hum eliminator preset on an EQ program to see what I mean - they're targeting 5-6 bandwidths.

I can't stress strongly enough that, when in doubt, you're better off taking steps to reduce hum/hiss in the original source and signal chain rather than looking for a "band-aid" fix down the road.


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## Nik (Mar 15, 2007)

Drew said:


> I can't stress strongly enough that, when in doubt, you're better off taking steps to reduce hum/hiss in the original source and signal chain rather than looking for a "band-aid" fix down the road.



I'm sure that you're right in 99% of all cases, but as of now, I'm trying to emulate bulb's mastering techniques, since he seems to know how to get most out of his rhythm tone 

Anyway, I have a quick question:

I'm gonna be doing EQing for a song that has everything from double-tracked rhythm guitars, to quad-tracked, and there's even some hexa-tracked riffs on the song. I'm wondering, can I export all of the separate guitar tracks in one master stereo audio file and apply proper Equalization to all of the guitar tracks as one unit?

Or is it wiser to apply EQ to each track separately and then later combine all the tracks together?

Or does it not matter?


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## Drew (Mar 15, 2007)

Nik said:


> I'm sure that you're right in 99% of all cases, but as of now, I'm trying to emulate bulb's mastering techniques, since he seems to know how to get most out of his rhythm tone
> 
> Anyway, I have a quick question:
> 
> ...



Well making a tone fit the mix is a totally different thing.  Definitely learn from Bulb because he gets some damned good sounds, but also focus on getting your source tone as good as it can be from day one. Call it the best of both worlds. Simply put, if it's possible to reduce buzz and hiss in your source sound, then there's absolutely no excuse not to. 

Does your recording program support bussing? I.e - can you assign all rhythm guitar tracks to a "rhythm guitar" bus, and then run that bus to your master? If so, do that - set all the levels to where you want them relative to each other, and then use the bus to set master level for all gutiars, and master EQ for all guitars. You may find yourself wanting to make an occasional tweak on one or two individual tracks, and that's fine, but busses let you adjust a group of tracks as a whole, rather than, say, making the same adjustment six times. It's way more efficient.


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## g3rmanium (Mar 15, 2007)

Nik said:


> I'm gonna be doing EQing for a song that has everything from double-tracked rhythm guitars, to quad-tracked, and there's even some hexa-tracked riffs on the song. I'm wondering, can I export all of the separate guitar tracks in one master stereo audio file and apply proper Equalization to all of the guitar tracks as one unit?
> 
> Or is it wiser to apply EQ to each track separately and then later combine all the tracks together?
> 
> Or does it not matter?



Yes.










Why don't you send all these tracks to a mix buss and EQ it there?


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## Nik (Mar 15, 2007)

The problem is that I recorded this song before I got Cubase, so the program I used is Audacity, which is a simple, bare-bones program without fancy stuff like busses, and exporting all the guitar tracks as a single stereo track would save me about 8-9 hours of click/drag/export/import busy work  

Bussing sounds like a slightly superior and more intuitive (and less barbaric) method to achieve the same result as exporting a single track 

In regard to the hiss, it's pretty moderate in the clip I posted, I think a very slight adjustment in the high-end EQ will pretty much get it to a good level.

BTW, I'd just like to add a huge thanks to all the people who have contributed to this thread, I've really learned a lot and I really appreciate it


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## Nik (Mar 19, 2007)

New clip with real bass for a song I'm mixing for my band:

[MEDIA]http://home.comcast.net/~petsev/TEST2.mp3[/MEDIA]

I need comments on the mix. Like it? Hate it? Any tips? All the EQ presets I used I listed in this thread  

Oh, and I've started using the DfH expansion for EZDrummer (I used the metal kit for this clip).

EDIT: Lemme rephrase that  Any comments, apart from the deplorable excess of bass lol.


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## Shikaru (Mar 19, 2007)

Sounds pretty good Nik 

Apart from the excess of bass as you say, the guitars seem a little quiet to me, with the snare maybe a tad loud (sounds pretty good though). The kick needs a lot of work though, I can barely hear it at all on my headphones. I've never been a huge fan of any clips of EZDrummer I've heard though. 

Keep it up!


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## Nik (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks! 

Yeah, I'm not too happy with the drums either, but I just got the expansion, so I'm still new to it.

One last question though:

I'm actually not very happy with the clear separation of guitar and bass that these EQ setting created in that last clip.

Separation is important when guitar and bass are playing different things and the clarity is needed. However, for a metal riff where guitar and bass are playing the same thing, I much prefer guitar and bass to sound like a single, massive wall of sound. 

If I avoided cutting out the low end frequencies for riffs like this would this do the trick of blending the guitar and bass into a single thunderous unit?


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## Drew (Mar 20, 2007)

Probably not, it'd just sound muddy. 

I'd probably try to make your bass tone more articulate, as well - maybe boosting some of the upper harmonics and dialing up a brighter sound or something. Listen to Tool's Lateralus for inspiration, maybe.


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## g3rmanium (Mar 20, 2007)

Nik said:


> I need comments on the mix.




 Guitars too low. Are you mixing on headphones?
 Bass good.
 Drums sound artificial. Make them glue together better.
 Cymbals sound a bit dark.


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## Nik (Apr 10, 2007)

Alright guys, I've been practicing my ass off when it comes to mixing/mastering, and so I thought I'd get some feedback on where I am now. 

Here's a sloppy, quick improvisted test clip I smacked together to showcase what I've learned in regard to EQ/mixing (ignore the out-of-tempo guitar at the end lol). Anyway, please send opinions regarding the mix my way  

Some criticism of the drums would be appreciated, too. I EQ-ed the crap out of the snares and kick-drum, going the opposite way of what you would expect logically to work, to get a sound I was happy with.

[MEDIA]http://home.comcast.net/~petsev/KCTEST-01.mp3[/MEDIA]

I actually have a slightly improved mix from this sample sitting on my computer (it features a very slight reverb on the guitars). Anyway, I liked the setting I used for it, but I'm wondering if you guys have any particular recommendations using stock Cubase reverb effects when it comes to adding reverb to rhythm guitars.

A very slight reverb seems to do wonders, but I'm not sure what characteristics this reverb needs to have.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 10, 2007)

Nik said:


> Anyway, please send opinions regarding the mix my way



Drums sound good. Overheads are a little high in the mix though. Bassdrum is a little bit "short," could use some more compression to make it sound longer.

Guitars sound good, but they're a different flavor than the drums. The drums have lots of room, the guitars sound very dry. Guitars need to be turned up.

Bass might need a little help to cut through -- maybe something in the low mids. And compression.


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## Nik (Apr 10, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> Drums sound good. Overheads are a little high in the mix though. Bassdrum is a little bit "short," could use some more compression to make it sound longer.
> 
> Guitars sound good, but they're a different flavor than the drums. The drums have lots of room, the guitars sound very dry. Guitars need to be turned up.
> 
> Bass might need a little help to cut through -- maybe something in the low mids. And compression.



Yeah, that's why I was thinking about adding some reverb to the guitars, to make 'em sound a bit more spacey.

And I've already compressed the living shit out of the bass once. Is it normal to run a single track through the compressor numerous times to get the signal more even?


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## g3rmanium (Apr 10, 2007)

Nik said:


> And I've already compressed the living shit out of the bass once. Is it normal to run a single track through the compressor numerous times to get the signal more even?



No, not rly.

I thought about this: Why don't you upload the tracks one-by-one somewhere and have everyone try to mix them?


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## Drew (Apr 10, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> No, not rly.
> 
> I thought about this: Why don't you upload the tracks one-by-one somewhere and have everyone try to mix them?



 If you can... Even if it's just like 30 seconds of the tune.


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## Nik (Apr 10, 2007)

You know, that might actually be a cool idea!

If the mix comes out great, though, you'll be required to post an extremely detailed post of every single thing you did to the mix.

Are 320 kb/s quality mp3s OK? I don't feel like dealing with massive WAV files...

Also, is it OK to post the EQed instruments I have now, or should I go with completely raw tracks? The thing is that I don't have completely raw drums because I EQ them from the start. Oh, and I dunno if I still have the raw guitars, but I could always re-record them.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 11, 2007)

Nik said:


> If the mix comes out great, though, you'll be required to post an extremely detailed post of every single thing you did to the mix.



I guess screenshots would also be ok?



Nik said:


> Are 320 kb/s quality mp3s OK? I don't feel like dealing with massive WAV files...



Always uncompressed for me.



Nik said:


> Also, is it OK to post the EQed instruments I have now, or should I go with completely raw tracks?



As raw as possible for me.

Also you should make sure that all tracks are aligned at zero so noone has to manually align them.


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## Drew (Apr 11, 2007)

Completely raw. 

If you can do short .wav's, so much the better, because it saves us the trouble of re-converting them on our end and preserves audio fidelity. You don't lose MUCH going back and forth from .wav to 320kbps mp3, but you do lose a little, and if you're trying to get as good as possible, well...

Seriously, even 20 seconds should give you a good picture. How many tracks do you have?


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## g3rmanium (Apr 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> Seriously, even 20 seconds should give you a good picture.



Maybe a little bit more.


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## Drew (Apr 11, 2007)

Yeah, but 8 20 second .wav files is a minute and a half of music. When you consider that a 128kbps mp3 is 1/10th as large as its .wav equivalent, you're talking about the equivalent of a 10 minute mp3 track right there. It's a LOT of data to host somewhere.


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## Nik (Apr 11, 2007)

Cool, let's do this  

Since I deleted most of my raw files for that clip I posted, I'll re-record that simple riff thingie later today and post raw files for it.

I'll only post 20 seconds of:
--double-tracked guitar rhythm track (already panned left and right as single unit)
--bass
--drums (no compression, EQ only)
--'possibly' second guitar track

I'll do that as soon as I get my homework done.


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## Shikaru (Apr 11, 2007)

Looking forward to having a go at this, Nik. 

Are you gonna provide the seperate audio files for the drums (Kick, snare, OHs etc.) or just a single stereo file?


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## Nik (Apr 11, 2007)

Shikaru said:


> Looking forward to having a go at this, Nik.
> 
> Are you gonna provide the seperate audio files for the drums (Kick, snare, OHs etc.) or just a single stereo file?



I was planning on doing a single stereo file since exporing each drum separately would suck big time. I could do it, though, if you want. I'll do anything to get better at mixing


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## Shikaru (Apr 11, 2007)

It'd definitely allow us a lot more control over mixing the drums. However, if it's too much hassle, then don't worry about it.


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## Nik (Apr 11, 2007)

lol I had to re-record everything, so I just did a quick take for each track. It's not as tight as it could be, but surely a more polished riff with more care put in it would sound better.

For the record, I used both, bulb's guitar tone, and bulb's bass Pod tone, which can both be found in the patch library. Thus a mixing guide using the tracks I posted would be useful to other peeps who get bulb's tones and want to make cool tracks.

Each drum track is separate. The following rar file includes 7 drum tracks, 1 bass, and 2 guitars.

http://rapidshare.com/files/25526308/mixTESTtemp.rar.html

Enjoy, and keep me posted


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## Shikaru (Apr 11, 2007)

Ah drat, Rapidshare. I hope this works, the internet set-up in my building is weird, and rapidshare doesn't work for me most of the time 

Edit: Damn, doesn't work  My building basically all shares an IP address, so it says I'm already downloading a file.


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## Nik (Apr 11, 2007)

Shikaru said:


> Ah drat, Rapidshare. I hope this works, the internet set-up in my building is weird, and rapidshare doesn't work for me most of the time



Sorry, it's the only place I could find to host the 52 MB file. At least, the only place where I didn't have to registed/get ripped apart by adware.


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## Shikaru (Apr 11, 2007)

Ah fuck it, I need something to do for the next few days  

Paid for a premium account for 2 days, seeing as it's only £3. Now I'm gonna go crazy downloading all the rapidshare stuff I can, I think 

I'll get a mix up tomorrow or the day after maybe, thanks for doing this anyway Nik!


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## Nik (Apr 11, 2007)

Shikaru said:


> Paid for a premium account for 2 days, seeing as it's only £3.



 I feel like I should've at least put more time into it lol. I seriously scrapped some quick, one-off takes together.

I hope there's lots of other stuff for you to download...


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## g3rmanium (Apr 12, 2007)

Nik said:


> I was planning on doing a single stereo file since exporing each drum separately would suck big time.



Noooooooooooooo!  



Nik said:


> I could do it, though, if you want.



Yes.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 12, 2007)

Nik said:


> Sorry, it's the only place I could find to host the 52 MB file.



Ask me next time. I'd be glad to host these files.


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## Nik (Apr 12, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> Noooooooooooooo!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.



Don't worry, I exported each drum track separately  Check it out if you haven't already 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you fellas come up with.


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## Drew (Apr 12, 2007)

Grabbed these last night right before bed - I'll try my hand on them tonight if I can, though I'm giving a gutiar lesson after work, so it could be tight.


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## Alpo (Apr 12, 2007)

I have nothing better to do, so I'm going to give it a try, too.


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## Shikaru (Apr 12, 2007)

I keep running into more problems  First my recording PC was crashing everytime I tried to copy the files over, then when I finally got it to work, ProTools LE can't read the files. I tried converting them to a high quality MP3 then importing them, but all I got in ProTools was tracks filled with constant noise.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 12, 2007)

Nik said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing what you fellas come up with.



Working on it!


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## Nik (Apr 12, 2007)

Cool to see so many people giving this a shot, it should be interesting to put all samples side-by-side in the end  



Shikaru said:


> I keep running into more problems  First my recording PC was crashing everytime I tried to copy the files over, then when I finally got it to work, ProTools LE can't read the files. I tried converting them to a high quality MP3 then importing them, but all I got in ProTools was tracks filled with constant noise.



I dunno man  All the files are straight-forward 32-bit floating WAV format exported from either Cubase or Audacity. I'd imagine it being a problem on your end.

If anyone else has issues like this, let me know!


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## Drew (Apr 13, 2007)

Haven't started it yet - I ended up going out last night - but I'll take a crack over the weekend.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 17, 2007)

Ok, still not finished. Will have to work on the snare drum and the bassdrum.

Anyway, just posting this to encourage the others to also post something 

OGG Vorbis, MP3.


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## Nik (Apr 17, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> Ok, still not finished. Will have to work on the snare drum and the bassdrum.
> 
> Anyway, just posting this to encourage the others to also post something
> 
> OGG Vorbis, MP3.



I was actually just about to bump this thread to see how far along you fellas were 

I'll listen to the samples when I get home


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## Alpo (Apr 18, 2007)

I completely forgot about this! I worked on it for like half an hour last week. I'll try to finish it up today... maybe.


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## g3rmanium (Apr 18, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> OGG Vorbis, MP3.



I have counted eight downloads!


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## Nik (Apr 18, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> I have counted eight downloads!



Well, get them snares finished up! I'm most curious as to what you are going to do to the bass drum, since I haven't been able to get a good bass drum sound.

What you did to the guitar in terms of EQ sounds very, very similar to what I did. The way you processed the bass sounds very different, though. It had a fuzzy sort of quality... I listened to it last night and I was pretty tired, so I'll give it another spin when I get home. It sounded more consistent, but not as crisp as I'd imagine it could be.

I'll be able to post better critique with a finished mix


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## g3rmanium (Apr 18, 2007)

Nik said:


> Well, get them snares finished up! I'm most curious as to what you are going to do to the bass drum, since I haven't been able to get a good bass drum sound.



I also wasn't very happy with the bassdrum. It doesn't have much attack and not a lot of sustain.

Is $DRUMMER using old drum heads perhaps?



Nik said:


> The way you processed the bass sounds very different, though. It had a fuzzy sort of quality...



I only added some compression and EQ there, no additional distortion


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## Nik (Apr 19, 2007)

g3rmanium said:


> I also wasn't very happy with the bassdrum. It doesn't have much attack and not a lot of sustain.
> 
> Is $DRUMMER using old drum heads perhaps?
> 
> ...



So, would compressing the living shit out of the kick-drum extended sustain a bit? With some EQ, I can actually get the kick drum to sound really nice by itself. The only problem is that, once inside a mix, many frequencies of the kick drum get lost in the wall of noise, and the bit of the kick-drum that does come through sounds thin and abrupt.

Also, what settings did you use for the bass compression/EQ?


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## g3rmanium (Apr 19, 2007)

Nik said:


> So, would compressing the living shit out of the kick-drum extended sustain a bit?



You can make the attack more consistent, but it's most likely not sound very natural. As always, you can make things sound better, but never really perfect if they aren't great to start with.



Nik said:


> Also, what settings did you use for the bass compression/EQ?



I'll post screenshots of all that later.


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## internecine (Apr 19, 2007)

Hey there, I did a quick mix of it http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=589231

first file you encounter.


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## Nik (Apr 19, 2007)

@ g3rmanium:

I just listened to it through my hi-fi system, and the bass sounds great! I'm definitely interested in seeing what you did there.



internecine said:


> Hey there, I did a quick mix of it http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=589231
> 
> first file you encounter.



Good job man, the kick-drum actually sounded pretty decent (snare was pretty good too, although I like the snare in the mix I originally posted the best so far). Might I ask what you did for the kick?

My only critique would be that the bass lacked punch, maybe pushing it just a tad higher in the mix would sound more crushing.


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## internecine (Apr 19, 2007)

I believe I've attached a picture of what was done to the kick, in order for it to sound like a kick. I also just tweaked the bass a little, and re-uploaded it to the original mix file I did. It should be more "crushing."

Uploading is taking too long

1) -15.4db, 37hz
2) 8db, 57hz
3) -16.2db 561hz
4) 12.6db 8653hz

For the bass, I added better distortion, and notched the eq to fit in with the bass drum, which is why you really don't hear it but if I took it out, you'd notice.


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## Nik (Apr 19, 2007)

internecine said:


> I believe I've attached a picture of what was done to the kick, in order for it to sound like a kick. I also just tweaked the bass a little, and re-uploaded it to the original mix file I did. It should be more "crushing."
> 
> Uploading is taking too long
> 
> ...



The bass sounds much better now 

Did you use compression on the bass/drums at all?

Thanks for sharing your settings, man!


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## internecine (Apr 20, 2007)

On the bass, I crushed it with the renaissance Axx plugin and used an amp simulator the give it a better distortion, on the drum group out consisting of the kick and snares, I used the cubase 4 plugin of maximizer and chose optimize of 48, just to give it that "I will destroy your dynamics" sound it needs.


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## Nik (Apr 26, 2007)

Soooo... 2 weeks not long enough to mix a 30 second clip    

*Bump*


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## g3rmanium (Apr 26, 2007)

Nik said:


> Soooo... 2 weeks not long enough to mix a 30 second clip



I'm working on it.  

Well, I'm not. But I won't forget it and the weekend is just around the corner.


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## Drew (Apr 26, 2007)

Sorry dude, I've been uber-busy. I haven't even worked on my OWN album. :/


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## Kronpox (May 1, 2007)

I tried importing all the files into Logic and they all gave me 'skipping file, cannot be read' error. I think Shikaru had the same problem. Bummer, I was going to have fun with this D:


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## g3rmanium (May 2, 2007)

Didn't you say somewhere you exported these as 32 bit floating point WAVs, Nik?


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## Jongpil Yun (May 28, 2007)

Actually, it'd be pretty awesome to have someone record dry 45 second tracks and have a big mix-off.


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