# Fosse electric carbon 'ultra-sitar' hybrid



## ixlramp (Apr 14, 2012)

Turtleneck, dungarees, wrap around shades, effortlessly cool fashion statement

FOSSE ELECTRIC SITAR | Facebook


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## JStraitiff (Apr 14, 2012)

Well that was 6 min of the same notes.. but the concept is awesome. Id love to get something like this. But id rather have a guitar with a buzz bridge instead of learning how to play this thing.


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## Hyacinth (Apr 14, 2012)

That song was really boring, but the sitar sounded awesome.


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## Murdstone (Apr 14, 2012)

I'd love to see it with more resonance so the drone can ring out longer. Other than that, cool idea.


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## Nile (Apr 15, 2012)

I can see Karl Sanders playing this.


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## GSingleton (Apr 15, 2012)

to people who said it's the same note.....that is essentially what a sitar does haha in typical indian music.


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## Demiurge (Apr 15, 2012)

Sounds great for what appears to be a solid body instrument in terms of acoustic resonance.

I have no quarrel over the playing itself. Not that I know much about Indian music, but not every genre of music is all about something different happening every 20 seconds. I thought that it was gorgeous-sounding and soothing.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 15, 2012)

That sounds epic. I want one.


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## Thrashmanzac (Apr 15, 2012)

screw the sitar, i want that dudes wardrode!


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## nickable (Apr 16, 2012)

This is a great instrument, I'm a sitar player myself and is seems Greg has designed something amazing, but too expensive for me! I was thinking to post some photos of my sitar here, which was hand made by one of the best instrument makers in the world, he made sitars for Ravi Shankar, amongst others.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 16, 2012)

I see he also makes Surbahars. I would love one of those!


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## nickable (Apr 16, 2012)

Yea, have you ever played a Surbahar? My teacher, Ravi Shankar owns two back from the 1950's. They are incredible instruments and you have to be one incredible musician to be able to play one!!


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## ixlramp (Apr 16, 2012)

Poor quality audio but an excellent deep performance.
Fosse is working on the ultra-surbahar which will be the larger version of the ultra-sitar.


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## nickable (Apr 16, 2012)

Yea Greg's work is cool, i was interested but he said he couldn't lower his prices for artists and i wasn't able to pay, i also felt its a little overpriced. Nothing beats the real thing, which i have from Rikhi Ram.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 17, 2012)

I would like to see a properly modernized sitar, myself. The guitar did a great acoustic-to-electric changeover, and there needs to be one for the sitar too! we've seen electric guitars made with buzz bridges and ringing strings, which is kinda closer, but not quite there at all.


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## nickable (Apr 17, 2012)

You need to look at this, then..



Made by Rikhi Ram in New Delhi, i owned one of these about 5 years ago.


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## nickable (Apr 17, 2012)

or forward to 2.22. And he is playing all that on one string...Guitarists take note...


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 17, 2012)

nickable said:


> Yea Greg's work is cool, i was interested but he said he couldn't lower his prices for artists and i wasn't able to pay, i also felt its a little overpriced. Nothing beats the real thing, which i have from Rikhi Ram.


My guitar teacher plays sitar and sarod as well and I think they're both made by Ram. I'm not an expert but they seem to sound and look pretty good


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## ixlramp (Apr 17, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> I would like to see a properly modernized sitar, myself. The guitar did a great acoustic-to-electric changeover, and there needs to be one for the sitar too! we've seen electric guitars made with buzz bridges and ringing strings, which is kinda closer, but not quite there at all.


Yep. All the electric sitars i know of either have the traditional sitar neck, or are 12 equal temperament electric guitars with buzz bridges and sympathetics. I would like to see an instrument with a modern thin neck but retaining the movable frets.
Start with something like an EYB 10 string sitar guitar ...







Welcome to Eyb Guitars

... but with movable frets that are ultra-jumbo so you can really dig in when bending (without a scalloped board). I would run the sympathetics close together along the top edge of the neck, drone strings close together are next, then playing strings, and finally a large gap for bending. Perhaps all the playing strings could be widely spaced for more bend room. Add to this locked strings which don't go out of tune when pulling large bends.

Reminds me of an experiment when i removed every other string from my 6 string bass to create large gaps for bending, and used ultra-low tension.


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## Hallic (Apr 17, 2012)

what i miss with the carbon sitar in the orginal post is the "drone-ning" feedback that is cause by the acoutic-chamber(s). It drones a bit though, but not confincing enough.

I think you need a proper acoutic chamber to get that sinus feedbacky drony effect. Like in this acoutic sitarguitar:

played by jan kuipers
The guitar is called a "Shakti II" build by Heins guitars(Dutch builder)


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 17, 2012)

If you're looking for something that can be amplified, Rikhi Ram has some sitars with pickups in them on his website.
Hallic raises a good point though, for me, a lot of the sitars charm and sound comes from the deep resonance and drone, which would be greatly reduced with a solid body.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 18, 2012)

with a solid body, the drone would still be there, but it wouldn't be as audible unamplified. Just lice an electric guitar can have tons of sustain and full tone, but needs to be amplified.

And what about a big thick deep hollowbody one?


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## nickable (Apr 18, 2012)

The sitar in Niladri's video was made by Rikhi Ram. Other than that this is the only person I've seen making high quality sitars with pickups-

New style sitars | Sitar Factory

To electrify the main strings and the sympathetic strings you'd need two pickups. Ive not seen anyone do that, yet. 

Also, the purpose of the moveable frets on a sitar is to give the two notes that are not available, since not all 7 notes are there in the octave (if you look at any sitar neck you will see some larger spaces in-between some notes, that is where the frets move). Its also to allow the correct tuning, since western instruments (guitar, piano etc) are not in tune. The microtones are not created by moving the frets, that comes from the meend, the way they bend each note to give the microtones.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 18, 2012)

wow, that's much more like what i had imagined!


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## trickae (Apr 18, 2012)

guys don't knock the sitar. Saying indian music is just playing 1 note, is like saying meshuggah play only 2 chords, or led zepplin only play pentatonics, or vai just plays with a wammy bar. 

check out some classic ravi shankar or Mahavishnu orchestra with John McLaughlin

I've been blown away by some of the this stuff when I was into 70's prog rock -i'll try to post some videos later
*edit:
1 note progression!!
*

some classic indian music (i think, don't quote me on this)




and for the zep haters 




To those of you haven't heard of the mahavisnu orchestra check out this video at 0.49s. Very reminiscent of Cynic and veil of maya - but get this. This video was recorded in 1972.


al de meola, John Mclaughlin, Paco De Lucia trading solos


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## nickable (Apr 18, 2012)

Cool links. Ive learned sitar from Ravi Shankar since 2003, i also tour with him and his daughter, Anoushka who's ensemble I've been a member of since 2006.


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## ixlramp (Apr 18, 2012)

That's cool to have such a master.


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 18, 2012)

Just throwing ideas around, but would it be possible to make an electric sitar with a set of drone strings activated by something like a Fernandez Sustainer with their own pickup? Could you slave two sustainers together so the one under the "playing" strings (I'm sure there is a proper term for them, but I have no idea what it is) could pick up what is being played and drive the drone strings accordingly?

I'm not really sure where you would be able to mount the drone strings though - still pondering that one.


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## ixlramp (Apr 18, 2012)

^ Good idea ... electronically boosted sympathetic resonance.
I'm thinking just run the drone strings, spaced very closely, down the neck next to the lowest string ... headstock with 20+ tuners.


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## nickable (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, the drone or sympathetic strings (correct name is Tarab) are underneath the main strings on a sitar. Im sure it would be possible to do what your saying, but I'm not sure how it would sound to have all the sympathetic strings ringing constantly, which is what would happen if you had the sustainer turned on.


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## matt397 (Apr 19, 2012)

This thread makes me want to listen to Tea Party  
I love the sitar, almost pulled the trigger on buying a Jerry Jones electric sitar a while back.


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 19, 2012)

nickable said:


> Well, the drone or sympathetic strings (correct name is Tarab) are underneath the main strings on a sitar. Im sure it would be possible to do what your saying, but I'm not sure how it would sound to have all the sympathetic strings ringing constantly, which is what would happen if you had the sustainer turned on.



How constantly do they ring on an acoustic sitar?

I guess I was thinking of the sustainer putting out to the _Tarab_ (did I use that right?) the same frequencies that were hitting the pickup from the "normal strings", so that only notes which have a strong harmonic relationship would ring (like octaves or fifths).

Sounds like this might not be how the sustainer works though? I've never had a direct experience with one and don't really understand them tbh.


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## nickable (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, that depends on how good the sitar is made. They should ring out each time you play a note on the main strings, they don't ring indefinitely, maybe for a few seconds each time. 
You see, the way it works is the Sympathetic strings are tuned to the particular Raga you are playing, then, when you play each note on the main strings, the sympathetic strings resonate. It all works with the vibration of each note. When you play a single note on the main strings, the sympathetic string thats tuned to the same note resonates. 

If you had a sustainer on the sympathetic strings it would make them all audible since a sustainer works across all the strings. Basically it sustains the strings indefinitely, i believe there are two modes on the sustainer that give some different harmonics of the same note played.


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 19, 2012)

Arrr, ok that makes sense. So a sustainer is a fixed, multi-string ebow then? So with sustainer equipped guitars, do you have to mute any strings you don't want playing?

Maybe a preamp driving a small speaker magnet under the Tarab would be more like it?


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## nickable (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes its basically a multistring e-bow. Yea you'd have to mute strings you dont want to hear, or just not play them. 

See this video for some idea-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IICQ8_VJCfU

I personally dont think any kind of sustainer on the sympathetic strings would sound good. Id compare it to having a chord ringing out constantly. Its there as a subtle thing really. I dont see what use it would be to have an instrument that would operate this way. Even with separate outputs. What is it your trying to achieve? Whats the outcome you want?


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 20, 2012)

Just thinking about ways to emulate the drone strings without needing the bulk of the body. The reason I suggested a preamp and speaker magnet arrangement instead of the sustainer idea is that if the main strings were playing nothing, there would be nothing driving the speaker magnet affecting the drone strings.

You definitely don't want those things droning non-stop, and it would be nice to have washes of sympathetic vibrations that go along with the notes being played.

Not really trying to achieve anything, just throwing ideas around. The sitar is a beautiful, beautiful instrument but physically quite unwieldy. It would be fun to have an electric version that was able to do away with some of the bulk.


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## ixlramp (Apr 20, 2012)

Sustainer pickups are designed for a slightly different purpose, i'm thinking just a normal pickup driven by a pre-amp would work. Since the resonance is now electric i realised the sympathetic strings could be in a separate unit, connected by a signal cable. How about this for a DIY electric sympathetic strings unit ... an old 7 string guitar strung with low tension plain strings covering a range of 1 octave, rewire the 2 pickups direct to 2 output jacks and drive the neck pickup with a powerful pre-amp.

All this is with the understanding that this is not meant to replace or substitute an acoustic sitar ... it's a different instrument.

I actually consider the sitar to be, conceptually, the most advanced guitar in existence, whereas the modern electric guitar is advanced in terms of engineering and materials but simple in concept. It would be good to combine the 2.


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## ixlramp (Apr 20, 2012)

String Resonator
With sound clips.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 21, 2012)

Go To Bed Jessica said:


> Just throwing ideas around, but would it be possible to make an electric sitar with a set of drone strings activated by something like a Fernandez Sustainer with their own pickup? Could you slave two sustainers together so the one under the "playing" strings (I'm sure there is a proper term for them, but I have no idea what it is) could pick up what is being played and drive the drone strings accordingly?
> 
> I'm not really sure where you would be able to mount the drone strings though - still pondering that one.



i have had the exact same idea! this would amplify the amount that the drone strings are vibrated by the main strings.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 21, 2012)

ixlramp said:


> String Resonator
> With sound clips.



that basic idea is one i've had before as well, using a second guitar as the resonant guitar! my idea was simpler though, using two amps, and just placing the drone guitar in front of the playing amp, and having it come out of the "drone" amp. OR just feeding the dry playing signal into a second little amp, and feeding both guitars into the same main amp.

I have had ideas for a resonance box too: just a long wooden box, with holes on the top and bottom, with ferrules in one end and tuners along a wooden plate on the other end. As long as the strings are all vibrating freely within the box, you just need to tune them, and voila! a resonating box! Now, you'll need something to drive it of course. A cheap 12" speaker mounted right next to the strings, pointing at them (at the middle, or right before the middle of the string length i guess), driven by one of those little .22 cal power amp pedals (you could even build it in!), with a regular little strat jack plate on the box itself for plugging into. The speaker could be mounted as if it was a cab that had the front plate turned around pointing inwards. Then all you need is a pickup or two, probably something transparent and even-sounding, like a Q-tuner or Alumatone. Keep the resonance box behind your amp to avoid bad interference. You want to control how much the strings are being fed the dry signal. You could have the box open like a guitar case, with the same kind of locks on it, as long as you had a rubber seal along the touching surfaces to avoid ugly vibrating sounds.


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## nickable (Apr 21, 2012)

So basically you guys are talking about an instrument that resonates the drone strings? This already exists and is called a Tanpura.  Check it out. I played this on tour accompanying Ravi for over 9 years.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 21, 2012)

i like the Tanpura, but i am imagining something that drones as a reaction to your main instrument, like the drone strings on the Sitar. Imagine that being it's purpose, but the actual drone strings are separated from the main instrument, and amplified separately.


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## nickable (Apr 21, 2012)

Yea i see what your visualising, but how can it react to what your playing on the guitar if they are separate? Maybe thats a question for a luthier?


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## ixlramp (Apr 21, 2012)

Would be nice to have them on the instrument for added physical resonance and to be plucked in performance like a harp.
I'm thinking also drive the playing strings with the signal from the sympathetics to complete a feedback loop, all adjustable with volume knobs, EQ etc. So much potential in electrifying string resonance ...


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 21, 2012)

nickable said:


> Yea i see what your visualising, but how can it react to what your playing on the guitar if they are separate? Maybe thats a question for a luthier?



with either a speaker right next to them, with only the guitar's signal playing through it, to energize the strings, OR with a sustainer that somehow takes the input from the guitar's pickup and pushes it onto the drone strings instead.


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## nickable (Apr 22, 2012)

This isn't what your guys are describing but this is another way to mount the sympathetic strings

http://www.guitarejazz.com/photo/forcione.jpg

Off to the side as opposed to underneath like a sitar..

Its a lot like a Sarod


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 22, 2012)

Go To Bed Jessica said:


> Arrr, ok that makes sense. So a sustainer is a fixed, multi-string ebow then? So with sustainer equipped guitars, do you have to mute any strings you don't want playing?
> 
> Maybe a preamp driving a small speaker magnet under the Tarab would be more like it?



a sustainer basically takes the output of your bridge pickup and "pushes" it out the driver (which takes the place of the neck pickup), forcing movement on the strings. There are intensity settings, meaning you can essentially dial it way down, so you don't notice it until your note has already faded down a bunch, and stays there, and you can push it all the way up so any movement on the strings will have the strings go straight into full vibration and stay there.

So a sustainer placed under drone strings, driven by the bridge pickup of the main instrument will only feed the signal from the bridge pickup onto these strings. They'll only react and ring out when you play or make noises with your guitar.


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## ixlramp (Apr 23, 2012)

ELECTRIC FUSION SITAR by G. ROSUL w/ CASE STRINGS | eBay


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 23, 2012)

This thread has reawakened my lust for something buzzy droning thing! 

I really wanna get one of those electric sitars with the drone strings now...


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## nickable (Apr 24, 2012)

Which one? 

You think its appropriate for me to start a thread showing photos of my sitar here?


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 24, 2012)

nickable said:


> Which one?
> 
> You think its appropriate for me to start a thread showing photos of my sitar here?



Hell yeah! I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would love to learn a bit more about our instrument's mysterious older cousin!


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## deragoku (May 6, 2012)

Guitar doing a great acoustic-electric conversion, there is a need sitar too! We have seen buzzing the bridge and the snare, which is a little bit closer, but not quite the electric guitar.


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## fossesitar (Jul 15, 2012)

I wanted to reply to several of the comments here. First the video here is intended to demonstrate the SOUND of the instrument, not my playing or musical talent (or lack of same : ).

Second, the Ultra actually has MORE sustain on the drone strings than the acoustic sitar - just as an electric guitar has more sustain than the acoustic ever will. Perhaps what you are missing is the drone ("tanpura") which is a continous sound not used in this demonstration for simpliicity and to accurately represent the sound of the Ultra with nothing added.

Third about cost. The cost of materials used in the Ultra is literally more that ten times (10X !!) the cost for materials to build a fine acoustic sitar. You read that correctly - ten times. The labor involved to build either instrument is similar if you ignore ornate decoration so prevelant on the traditional acoustic instruments. I did not choose the carbon based on anything but FUNCTION, it is immune to changes in temperature or humidity, incredibly resonant, and beyond strong. For example, when executing even the most EXTREME meend (5 notes - a full 5th of yanking the melody string way to the side) there is NO sag in the pitch of the drone strings on the Ultra. None - as in zero - which is unheard of on the acoustic instrument. My new website contains several accurate professional recordings of the Ultra just completed. I will post the link here soon.

FOSSE


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## ixlramp (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi Greg, i also find your vina-bass very interesting.


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## fossesitar (Jul 16, 2012)

thanks for mentioning the Vina-Bass - for those who want a look at this hybrid electric bass/surbahar, George Gruhn of Nashville has pix of one up on his website.

Pricing discount for famous artists is a flat 30%, we do not use compensated endorsements as we feel this is misleading to the customer. Just about anybody will "endorse" your instrument if you give them a free one!! But we do offer the 30% disount to world famous artists as a courtesy, there are also occasional discounts available for example a $1,000 discount is being extended to the first 10 customers to purchase the Ultra - 5 have sold leaving 5 at the discounted price of $3,000 ($4,000 list). Same disount applies to the first 4 Sur-Bahar to be sold (one has sold leaving 3 at the discounted price) - the Surb is $5,000 list and almost all profit from every Fosse Sur-Bahar is donated to the musicians in Nashville.


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## TravTrav (Oct 15, 2012)

Fosse, 

I've been following you on chandrakantha for a while now.

I play sitar in a fusion electronic band and I have an electric solid body type sitar... not exactly a pro instrument, but i got sick of taking my acoustic sitar on the road running risks of breaking toombas and warping in the harsh aussie weather (espeically seeing as most of my shows are festivals out in the bush)

I'd love to purchase one of your sitars in the future (4Gs is a bit for me to save up) but I'm definately keen to hear more... it would especially go with my music because I use electronic beats and effects on the instruments.

Do you sell it with a case at all?

keep up the good work!


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