# The ugly truth behind Cort/Cor-tek guitars (a documentary)



## soliloquy

maybe cort is the only factory in korea to pull this shit. i hope so at least. i always liked cort, but now i'm debating that...

i did notice that as of late, all the stores around my area that carry cort guitars display a 'made in china' or indonesia sing on their corts. 2 or 3 years ago, EVERY single guitar was made in korea that i cam across. the price is exactly the same, or even more...


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## hypermagic

That fucking monster. He'll get what's coming to him. Hopefully these poor folks can get more media coverage, or at least some more support from artists.


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## BigPhi84

Wow, I watched all three of those videos and I'm appalled. I wonder what could happen to change all of this.


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## Duraesu

i feel really sad for this... i mean, this is not a secret, everyone knows that some factories treat their employees like crap, but this is too much... but no one does nothing to stop it =/ i mean, something that could really work!

for me, i dont feel okay buying a guitar and knowing it was made in fear and opression... i really dont.


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## potatohead

_velkan said:


> for me, i dont feel okay buying a guitar and knowing it was made in fear and opression... i really dont.


 
Well put.


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## soliloquy

i have to say, that when i used to work at my old job, it killed me when i trained new people, only to see them get promoted over me. i mean, i was one of the senior workers there with the most experience, technical know how, and versatility to do EVERYTHING there. yet i felt really under appreciated there, and then to see people get promoted over me was just too much for me to bare. so in that sense, i can really relate to the folks who got their jobs outsourced, even though they were the ones who trained the foreigners...


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## walleye

if you dont want to watch the videos, just watch the third one, its basically a summary, and its short


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## Durero

Guitar Workers Fight Unfair Labor Practices - uprisingradio.org


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## signalgrey

i had a thread on this when Tom Morello and Serj made a stink about this at NAMM or some other event


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## Shawn

Wow.


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## 22km Tombstone

Wow, I seriously had no idea this shit was going on. 

I've been to an Asian (chinese) electronics factory (not quite the same, I know) and while some things were similar - very few windows, etc. the workers seemed happy overall, and they seemed to have access to necessary stuff like tools and safety equipment.

The shit these people have had to endure is awful. What a shit company  for lying and treating their workers this way. I stayed an extra hour at work just watching these videos and then trying to find out more about the whole thing.

It makes me glad that the Korean guitars I own weren't made by Cort, but still, it's made me re-evaluate my guitar purchases, and made me think more about who is making them... 

I've decided now to only buy Japanese-made instruments. Not only for the better quality, but for (hopefully) supporting companies that actually pay & treat their employees well.

Thanks for the vids!


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## MF_Kitten

i´m going to watch this later, but for preparational purposes, which brands/companies are made in the cort factory?


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## MaxOfMetal

MF_Kitten said:


> i´m going to watch this later, but for preparational purposes, which brands/companies are made in the cort factory?



Just about all the Korean instruments that aren't made by Saein or Samick, Corts two primary competitors in Korea, and roughly all the Indonesian instruments you see. 

Typically, if it's a Korean instrument and has either a "C", "CP", "CT", or in some cases an "E", thin it's from Cort. Though there have been many different serial numbers.


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## 22km Tombstone

They've made a lot, I think. 

From what I remember, they've made Fender/Squire, Epiphone, LTD, Ibanez, Schecter, G&L Imports... probably others.

Them & Samick, IIRC, make most of the import guitars from Asia (excluding japan, of course)

^ To add to above: I think "E" is Sung-Eum, I don't think they are part of Cort, are they?
Also, I think the serial numbers either start with C, like mentioned above, but also can start with the first letter of the country of manufacture.
Ie, KC is Cort Korea, IC is Cort Indonesia, etc. Likewise, IS is Samick Indonesia, I'm pretty sure.


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## MaxOfMetal

22km Tombstone said:


> They've made a lot, I think.
> 
> From what I remember, they've made Fender/Squire, Epiphone, LTD, Ibanez, Schecter, G&L Imports... probably others.
> 
> Them & Samick, IIRC, make most of the import guitars from Asia (excluding japan, of course)



For the record all but the "Elitist" range from Epiphone (which is made in Japan) has been made in China for the last several years at Gibson's own facilities, not an OEM supplier.


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## MF_Kitten

wow, that pretty much rules out most of the cool stuff 

if schecter was made by them, i´m assuming esp/ltd is too.


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## MaxOfMetal

MF_Kitten said:


> wow, that pretty much rules out most of the cool stuff
> 
> if schecter was made by them, i´m assuming esp/ltd is too.



ESP no, LTD yes. Though, from what I've seen some of the more recent stuff is made by World. Though, I believe World was acquired by Cort some time ago. I'm not 100% on that though.


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## 22km Tombstone

MaxOfMetal said:


> For the record all but the "Elitist" range from Epiphone (which is made in Japan) has been made in China for the last several years at Gibson's own facilities, not an OEM supplier.



Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure, as I got some of those brands off the Wikipedia page for Cort.  Wikipedia's always right, right?

So, also I'm not 100% sure on Schecter & LTD... all the Korean LTD's I've seen (the ones I own, anyway) are stamped "W" for World. Not sure if they are part of Cort? 
EDIT: If they are in fact part of Cort, then shiiit, lol. I own two of them 

The newer LTD's made in Indonesia that I've seen are stamped "IS", which is Samick Indonesia.

Still, it makes you wonder how other factories treat their workers.


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## MaxOfMetal

22km Tombstone said:


> Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure, as I got some of those brands off the Wikipedia page for Cort.  Wikipedia's always right, right?
> 
> So, also I'm not 100% sure on Schecter & LTD... all the Korean LTD's I've seen (the ones I own, anyway) are stamped "W" for World. Not sure if they are part of Cort?
> EDIT: If they are in fact part of Cort, then shiiit, lol. I own two of them
> 
> The newer LTD's made in Indonesia that I've seen are stamped "IS", which is Samick Indonesia.
> 
> Still, it makes you wonder how other factories treat their workers.



The only reason that Cort is the "big bad wolf" here, is because they are the world's largest guitar producing entity. Though, having worked as a buyer for an international company and having done the work sourcing construction of goods on many occasions and investigating factories, I can honestly say there is no major variation in the working conditions in most Asian countries (out side Japan and former Soviet Union of course). Granted, some factories are better (typically the smaller specialty ones) but by and large it's the same conditions. 

I will say, that I've seen worse when sourcing the build for some furniture. I saw a few Chinese factories that were down right terrifying. 

The problem here, is that even if Cort does EVERYTHING, both instituting better wages and working conditions, the people who will really hurt are Dealers, other Factories (thus their workers), and the little guy. You know, the dude who can't shell out $1500 for a guitar. Those who readily buy LTD, Schecter, Agile, etc.


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## Randy

Only got a chance to watch the first part of the video so far, so I'll reserve final judgment until I see the rest but I didn't hear anything that varied greatly from other Asian factories I'm familiar with and, with the partial exception of wages, even some American.


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## MaxOfMetal

I love how it's Cort's problem to deal with KOREAN LABOR LAWS. The government needs a stern talking to, not Cort. 

I'd like to know what these workers did before they were hired by Cort, and how much there wages were. 

A lot of the sympathy I had went out the window with that whole "press on the guitar, tears will come out" part. Obviously they are trying to pluck heart strings. It's a great tactic, but what do they think is gonna happen if Cort raises their wages and reduces their hours? 

Like I said in the other thread, I have nothing to loose or gain by Cort being the good or bad guy. If all of a sudden Cort shut down, it would not effect me in the least. Though, the industry as a whole stands to loose a lot, and I'm not talking about a few hundred underpaid and over worked Korean workers. 

I think everyone should read this thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...om-morello-and-serj-boycott-cort-guitars.html


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## Randy

To get a little more familiar with the claims being lobbed here, I decided to watch the movies and list all of them below:


Encouragement to work faster, including being "harassed" by middle management
Being covered in sawdust after sanding all day
Dust masks having to be used repeatedly
No windows/natural sunlight on the factory floor
Semi-mandatory or unexpected overtime
Raises for some people over others
Requiring overtime to make up for poor performance/delivery
Lying about the financial situation of the company (hearsay)
Training workers to eventually shave away jobs from the original facility
Importing half assembled products to cut down cost necessary employment
Unexpected layoffs
Firing people for establishing/participating in union activities
Refusing to give jobs back to people who incidentally signed them away in a 'circulating suspension' 
Union rally that goes unheard or fails to spurn changes
Scolding workers for accidentally damaging or destroying their products
Closing factories and moving jobs overseas
Not paying workers enough
False claims of bankruptcy

Maybe I'm being overly cold here but, minus the claims that don't have a lot backing them up, what of these isn't true about several factories and large corporations in this country? I know a few close friends that work in factories or distribution warehouses who claim these things and worse. 

Also, apparently they decided to villainize the owner by mentioning that he's one of the 120 richest people in South Korea. That doesn't doesn't exactly sound like Boss Tweed to me. On top of that, I'd venture to guess that the condition in the factories that the 119 richer South Koreans are running aren't much better, if at all. But that's a guess.

Lastly, the protesters. From what I'm seeing, these aren't even workers who want better treatment or standards... but people who no longer work there and want their jobs back...? Doesn't exactly sound like the kind of job that's worth sitting on top of a high-voltage radio tower or SETTING YOURSELF ON FUCKING FIRE to get back. 

In all honesty, I might be missing something completely here, so I'd like to hear some advocacy in their favor because I just don't get it right now


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## wannabguitarist

^

I'm a bit confused on how someone can illegally close a factory that they own?


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## MaxOfMetal

As far as I can tell nothing that Cort is doing is illegal. Is it fair? Not really, but show me a multi-million dollar plus business that operates on "fairness". 

Look at those videos, they're meant to illicit a knee jerk reaction from those in rich, English speaking nations such as The US, Canada, Australia, and the UK, where strict labor laws don't condone certain activities. It seems like they want to try and loose perspective. By US standards some of the things Cort (and nearly every other operation in China, Indonesia, South Korea, etc.) would be construed as improper business practices. Though, they aren't in the US, they're in South Korean, where Cort is right [legal] as rain. 

This is just a group of workers pissed that their rich boss isn't "playing fair" and "sharing the wealth". The fact that Tom and Serj are "cheering them on" is absolutely revolting.


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## James Blood

That's a shame.
I feel kind of bad now for owning a Schecter guitar


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## MaxOfMetal

James Blood said:


> That's a shame.
> I feel kind of bad now for owning a Schecter guitar



You have no reason to feel bad. You buying that Schecter is what has given these people better jobs then they would have had previously. 

From what I can tell, and Randy summed this up beautifully a couple posts up, the claims are either bloated, misleading, or simply applicable to any job in any nation.

I bet about 90% of the people on this very forum have worked jobs where they experienced at least half, if not more, of all these "claims".


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## synrgy

Yeah, as much as I hate to say it that all seems like pretty standard shit to me. That's why we HAVE unions, and why most companies don't WANT them. (I'm not a member of any union, by the way. I'm a considerably lucky low income white-collar guy who works for a company that takes care of its own.)


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## Nickthebogan

Yeh, I really don't give a shit. There is probably a million businesses that treat their employees shittier than cort. The rich get rich by being slightly cuntish. This is the way of the world get used to it. Might be a sad outlook but oh well. Go and start up a guitar factory and employ them. This is my feelings on the subject anyway.

I own a cort X7, its actually pretty damn good.


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## petereanima

i'm acutally a bit surprised this issue is coming up now... if anybody can remember, i reported about this after my last years visit at the music fair Frankfurt - where a big bunch of Cort workers were protesting in front of the fair...nobody carred back then. 

anyway, good that it finally gets public.


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## Chickenhawk

This is just people mis-using the media again. They're bitching and complaining, hoping for a reaction from other countries. 

Look around in America. We are full of factories and warehouses that look / behave extremely similar. Big deal. 

I'll keep my LTDs. Shit, might even squeeze it and see if any tears come out. Then I'll go squeeze my truck and see if it cries. Or my HDTV built overseas, or any other thing I've bought in the past 5 years that wasn't "Made in the USA". 

When these people explain what job they had before they worked for Cort, and how much they were making there, THEN I'll listen. Until then, I'm going to ignore that guy singing a song about how crappy Cort is, while playing a Cort guitar.


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## petereanima

well, there were people setting themselves on fire, just to demonstrate that seomthing is wrong...i would guess they dont do this without a reason or just for fun.


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## daemon barbeque

It strikes me deeply, since I had a MIK Peavey, and that could be made by this people. I hate it when I know that my money used to finance this kind of predatory business. I am very disappointed how people just ignore it and go on buying this stuff. Are our hobbies really more valuable than human life? I mean, it is not a coal factory or a rice farm. It's a fucking crappy guitar factory!


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## MaxOfMetal

daemon barbeque said:


> It strikes me deeply, since I had a MIK Peavey, and that could be made by this people. I hate it when I know that my money used to finance this kind of predatory business. I am very disappointed how people just ignore it and go on buying this stuff. Are our hobbies really more valuable than human life? I mean, it is not a coal factory or a rice farm. It's a fucking crappy guitar factory!



I hate to break it to you, but just about all the "modern conveniences" and luxuries supplied to those in the developed nations are manufactured by the lowest bidder in not so "up to code" factories in less developed nations. Things such as Guitars, Amps, Pedals, Cables, Cell Phones, Home Phones, Computers, Video Game Consoles, MP3 Players, CD Players, AM/FM Radios, Build-It-Yourself Furniture, etc, are all made like this. 

Trust me, these Cort workers have (or had, seeing as they got fired) it far better than many others do in factories in China. 

The market has caused this, not Cort.


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## daemon barbeque

Yes I know, and I am not aiming it just to cort actually.
I am just feeling very bad about the current monetary system, the cannibalism we all feed, and the blinding greed.


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## datalore

soliloquy said:


> i have to say, that when i used to work at my old job, it killed me when i trained new people, only to see them get promoted over me. i mean, i was one of the senior workers there with the most experience, technical know how, and versatility to do EVERYTHING there. yet i felt really under appreciated there, and then to see people get promoted over me was just too much for me to bare.



I know that it doesn't feel good to train someone and then see them promoted ahead of you, but is it actually unfair?


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## Gamba




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## Andromalia

datalore said:


> I know that it doesn't feel good to train someone and then see them promoted ahead of you, but is it actually unfair?



You know the saying: since when you're good at a job you're promoted, at some point nobody is any good at his job anymore, since they've been promoted until they sucked at their current post.


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## Koshchei

This is why I avoid buying products made for export on the backs of a slave population. Fuck Cort and all the other companies who subcontracted through them - they should know better.


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## MaxOfMetal

Koshchei said:


> This is why I avoid buying products made for export on the backs of a slave population. Fuck Cort and all the other companies who subcontracted through them - they should know better.



Though that's not the case here.


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## Origin

Boycott Cort long enough and maybe they'll make a change. I know I will


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## MaxOfMetal

Origin said:


> Boycott Cort long enough and maybe they'll make a change. I know I will



Or maybe they'll shut down and put thousands out of work, and cause the collapse of dozens of companies who contract them, and thus put hundreds of small independent guitar shops out of business. 

Look at the macro not micro.


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## ittoa666

I hate to say this, but it makes my guitar seem even more metal knowing that possible fear and oppression was used in the making of it.


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## Edika

I saw the videos and read your posts about the subject either siding with the workers or accepting the "reality" of our world. I for one am with the workers on this. Yes it happens in all the countries, yes it is a reality that exists and everybody knows the world is not perfect. Even if you think that their claims are irrational because they ask for a shitty job back think about your situations now with the economic crisis. Is a shitty job better or worse than no job at all? And does that mean just to get the shitty job you have to drop your pants and bend over? You suddenly loose the right to protest unfair laws and regulations in your country? And if your own country doesn't give a crap about what you say shouldn't you try and get the world community involved? Or is globalisation just a way to make a profit?
Don't forget that in most of the western world countries in the beginning of the industrial age this things happened also in the "civilised" nations and that the fact that most of you went to school instead of a factory was due to people protesting and sacrificing their lives for us to have worker rights and privileges.

It really saddens me that people easily forget these facts and accept and condone this just because our guitars or our goods will get more expensive otherwise. And especially from young people that are not rich and own or have major interests in companies like these. I like fancy, shiny well made "toys" as well as the next guy, but I rather play a cheap 100$ guitar made of plywood (not by a factory like that) than accept this. I am sorry if I am upsetting somebody with my opinions but it is getting progressively harder for me to just shut up and accept the "reality" of our world while things are getting progressively worse. For me the truth is that siding and protecting these people's rights is actually a way to protect our rights.


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## Soopahmahn

I can't watch the videos right now but I read Randy's summary of the main points.

People tend to forget that this is a voluntary arrangement between the workers and Cort. Think about that very carefully and all of the ramifications of that fact. Parties enter into a free exchange of property (money for time and labor) because they believe they will be better off after the exchange.

If your problem is with the fact that China and other Asian countries have lower standards of living than we do, and therefore work in conditions that we find appalling for wages we find unattractive, you're just upset that the planet isn't a utopia and we can't all have what we want just because someone else has it.

This is spoken from a privileged position, but the point stands on its own.


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## 13point9

As unagreeable as their situation is, all of my guitars and basses are imports from these countries so to say something would be extremely hypocritical...


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## jymellis

ok, i dont know how many of you missed the point of this video but what the fuck? ythey werent complaining about their conditions as much as they where complaining about BEING FIRED! they all said they would go back to work, but their jobs got outsourced to the people they had to train. the man didnt go to the top of the tower because of how he was treated, he did it over losing his job!


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## Metal Ken

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just about all the Korean instruments that aren't made by Saein or Samick, Corts two primary competitors in Korea, and roughly all the Indonesian instruments you see.
> 
> Typically, if it's a Korean instrument and has either a "C", "CP", "CT", or in some cases an "E", thin it's from Cort. Though there have been many different serial numbers.



I wonder if, then, because loomis serials start with a number and have no letters, they're not made by cort? 

Either way, i havent watched said videos, but i'll remain skeptical of said claims.


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## MaxOfMetal

Metal Ken said:


> I wonder if, then, because loomis serials start with a number and have no letters, they're not made by cort?
> 
> Either way, i havent watched said videos, but i'll remain skeptical of said claims.



A good deal of Korean Ibanez guitars I've seen have had no lettering either, and I know for a fact they were Cort (told by Ibanez rep.). 

I doubt it's made by World, as they're the only other producer out there which is big enough to support a brand like Schecter. Even then, Cort and World are hand in hand nowadays (World's founder was an ex-Cort executive). Kinda like how LTD and Schecter have been in recent times. Saein would be another option, but I don't think their quality is on par. 

From what I gather, Cort doesn't have a "set in stone" system of serial branding guitars. I just used the "C", "CP", "CT", an "E", as I know for a fact those are unique to Cort. (The Sung-El "E" is used more by Cort them Sung in China) 

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't make a difference, as just about all factories out there are run the same. They're all held to the same labor standards, or lack there of.


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