# Overpriced Agile ripoff?! o_O



## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

Hello all you nice fellow 7string/music enthusiasts! 

I have a question for you...

Have you ever heard of the british guitar and bass brand "Indie Guitars"?
Apparently these guitars is supposed to be made with the same intention as Agile - offering solid axes for relatively low cost!

A local musicstore in the city where I live is the main danish distributor of "Indie Guitars", and I've payed the store a visit once before to explore what these guitars was all about. They are, at first glance, seemingly solid guitars build for everything from jazz to metal, spec'ed to rock and roll.
I was fairly impressed after my first experience with Indie Guitars.

Today I went to the store once again and found this:







...am I the only one who sees an Agile Interseptor Pro in this picture?
This "Indie" guitar is completely identical to this:












I was very surprised when I found it in the shop. At first I thought that I had finally found an Agile in Denmark. I played it for a hour, and it was indeed a solid guitar. I was fairly impressed with it. The neck was great, though a lot thicker than I'm used to, the EMG's screamed nicely through the amp, the floyd - though a little hard to engage - performed like a charm!
Yep... I guess I fell in love right there! 

And now the part that bugs me, which I need help to clarify:

I asked for the price, and was caught completely off guard with the monumental price tag of 12.000 danish kroner.
To put this in perspective, the average Agile goes for 4.000 to 5.000 danish kroner, and I got my Ibanez RG2228 Prestige for 12.500 danish kroner.
In other words: this blue thing was, and is, grossly overpriced!
Nothing about that instrument reflects the build quality, feel and performance of a 12.000 DKr instrument.

Now...
I hope some of you guys here know if it's just a coincidence that the blue Indie is completely identical to the Agile. My initial first thought was that maybe the factory that produces the Agile guitars also sold guitars to other "budget" brands, who then slapped on their own name, thus ending up with the Indie brand on the headstock.
If so, the price should be reduced A LOT if you ask me! But if this really is an original Indie plagiarism of the ever so popular Agile, is the quality better or is there another factor that justifies that price?

I can say this...
I had totally bought that bad boy if it had been priced at 5.000 DKr!


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## larry (Apr 16, 2012)

yeah, it does look like an interceptor pro. iirc, there are 3 guitar factories in SK that produce
for several brands including ibanez. so it is possible that the 'indie' you've discovered is from
the same factory as the interceptor. i think max knows more about overseas guitar manufacturing and can shed more light on the matter.

if the indie is an agile then, it shouldn't cost anywhere near what a 2228 costs. maybe you
can talk the price down a bit and score the indie for cheap.


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## Floppystrings (Apr 16, 2012)

Did it look like someone removed the finish off of the headstock?

I think that is just an Agile someone is trying to pass off as a custom guitar.

You said the neck is thick? Maybe it has slightly different specs, and is a legit guitar coming from the same factory, I doubt it though. You would figure Agile owns their own shapes.


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## djpharoah (Apr 16, 2012)

Probably same OEM - different name.


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## themike (Apr 16, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Probably same OEM - different name.


 
Exactly. Same guitar manufacturer - branded by a different parent company.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

larry said:


> if the indie is an agile then, it shouldn't cost anywhere near what a 2228 costs. maybe you
> can talk the price down a bit and score the indie for cheap.


I actually did point out to the music store personal that the Indie was identical to the Agile. Apparently, the Indie model is a brand new model - Indie Guitars don't even have it on their website yet - and the store just got it sometime last week (I often pass by the shop, so I always notice when they get new things! ).

The things is, the store is basically run by idiots who don't know anything about the products their selling! I almost know more about the guitars I've never seen before than they do! 
When I showed them the Agile on the Rondomusic website they was all like "No... this can't be right!" and then almost went completely silent! On of the guys apparently wanted to contact Indie to find out what was going on. Another store clerk was all up his own ass about "How I was foolish to think that it was overpriced" and "That I couldn't compare that guitar to my prestige Ibanez!".

I didn't see any point in trying to convince them to knock of more then half the price today. Maybe another day though!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

th3m1ke said:


> Exactly. Same guitar manufacturer - branded by a different parent company.


...which would make it grossly overpriced, right?


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

Floppystrings said:


> Did it look like someone removed the finish off of the headstock?
> 
> I think that is just an Agile someone is trying to pass off as a custom guitar.
> 
> You said the neck is thick? Maybe it has slightly different specs, and is a legit guitar coming from the same factory, I doubt it though. You would figure Agile owns their own shapes.


Headstock was mint - no sign of any cheap tricks there!

I haven't tried a real Agile, so I can't tell if the neck was different from them, but from what I've heard about Agile's on this forum I'd imagine that this neck was identical to a true Agile.
I could only compare it to my Schecter, RG2228 and Epiphone Explorer, and it sure was beefier than the Schecter and RG2228, but not as beefy as the Explorer!
It was quite nice actually! 

EDIT:
btw... on the back of the head there was a sticker that said the guitar was made in Korea. That's also where Agile's are made, right?

Sadly I didn't get any pictures of the back, but it was completely identical to the back of the red Agile, down to every detail!


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## technomancer (Apr 16, 2012)

There could also be spec differences. For example the Interceptors have veneer tops over mahogany, that could be an actual maple top 

Definitely looks like it's from the same factory though.


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## TimSE (Apr 16, 2012)

yeah these are made in the same factory. 
If youre an Agile fan, then these basically ARE Agile guitars but with a different name.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

technomancer said:


> There could also be spec differences. For example the Interceptors have veneer tops over mahogany, that could be an actual maple top
> 
> Definitely looks like it's from the same factory though.


A possibility... The top looked extremely good and the "wood" pattern was deep and organic looking. One of the best tops I've seen in person. The blue color is almost candy-ish in person.

But given the overall feel and appearance of the guitar I kind of doubt that it's a real top. Also, you can't see it on the pictures, but the fretboard has scratches and a few minor dents. Nothing that affects playability, but a 12.000 DKr guitar just shouldn't have this...
The store personal told me the guitar had been featured on some kind of fair somewhere, which basically was their excuse for the flaws I found.
Well... even a guitar on a fair wouldn't/shouldn't receive that kind of wear! Unless of cause it had been played by an entire kindergarten repeatedly for week or so! I mean... come on! Real players take care of their instruments!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

TimSE said:


> yeah these are made in the same factory.
> If youre an Agile fan, then these basically ARE Agile guitars but with a different name.


Can you confirm this in any way possible?

If I found the proper evidence I could show it to the people at the store?
This is not just about me having GAS - I really hate the thought about another potential costumer getting tricked into buying that guitar to an unfair price (which is why I'm making such a big deal out of it!)...

...but I'd might grab it for myself if I could prove them wrong!


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## TimSE (Apr 16, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> Can you confirm this in any way possible?
> 
> If I found the proper evidence I could show it to the people at the store?
> This is not just about me having GAS - I really hate the thought about another potential costumer getting tricked into buying that guitar to an unfair price (which is why I'm making such a big deal out of it!)...
> ...



I'll PM you


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## technomancer (Apr 16, 2012)

What the factory charges has nothing to do with what the company reselling them charges. If Indie charges more for it than Agile the store's not going to sell it to you for Agile's price...

Also two different companies selling the same standard factory model doesn't make either of them a ripoff of the other.


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## Rick (Apr 16, 2012)

Just emailed to see if they do custom shop, really wanting a PRS 7. 

EDIT: oh shit, 15,001 posts. Damn, I need a life.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

technomancer said:


> What the factory charges has nothing to do with what the company reselling them charges. If Indie charges more for it than Agile the store's not going to sell it to you for Agile's price...
> 
> Also two different companies selling the same standard factory model doesn't make either of them a ripoff of the other.


Yeah I guess the "ripoff" stamp was quite uncalled for given the nature of the situation, however it was my initial first thought.

And yeah... I just realized that I can't do anything to make them change the price. I guess it'll be an Agile for me if I'll ever buy one of these guitars.

This thread has enlightened me a damn lot already! It has been a quite interesting research so far, and I'll still like to receive further information if anybody now anything about either guitar/brand!
Thank you so much to everyone who took some time to help me here so far!


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## jarnozz (Apr 16, 2012)

can't find it on the Idie guitar website either. Don't know if it's a fake or what. Overpriced? helljeah. considering the fact that I bought my interceptor for more than trice as less


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## Deadnightshade (Apr 16, 2012)

You never know...

It's not out of the question that they bought a big batch of Agiles and modified the headstock.

Generally I dislike these shady ripoffs,cause you don't know what is the correct price for them.They look alike,but do they sound and/or play alike?Are they made by the same quality standards,lower or higher?

It's funny though I've heard some horror stories from a local luthier.One time he told me about one of his clients came with a 1000ish euro guitar from a company (he didn't remember which ) that looked killer,but the neck was bowed to hell and couldn't be adjust with the truss rod,and (prepare yourselves ) a freaking DECAL spalted maple top with clear coat applied on it (he sanded the finish of the top that's how he understood it).


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## jarnozz (Apr 16, 2012)

Deadnightshade said:


> a freaking DECAL spalted maple .


so in ordinary language just a sticker...... I don't want to live on this planet anymore


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

jarnozz said:


> can't find it on the Idie guitar website either. Don't know if it's a fake or what. Overpriced? helljeah. considering the fact that I bought my interceptor for more than trice as less


The reason that it isn't on the website yet could be that it's supposedly a new addition to the Indie catalogue... at least that's what the store clerks said!
As I said earlier, this guitar was part of a fair as a display guitar for the supposedly new series. I don't know if this is true though? 

I'm still secretly hoping that either Indie or the music store have made some kind of mistake with the price...


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

Deadnightshade said:


> Generally I dislike these shady ripoffs,cause you don't know what is the correct price for them.They look alike,but do they sound and/or play alike?Are they made by the same quality standards,lower or higher?


A fellow SS.org member more or less confirmed that the blue guitar I played actually IS an Agile, produced at the same factory.
The guitar did feel solid and had no flaws when it come to sound or playability. Only real flaw is that damn price!


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## jarnozz (Apr 16, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> A fellow SS.org member more or less confirmed that the blue guitar I played actually IS an Agile, produced at the same factory.
> The guitar did feel solid and had no flaws when it come to sound or playability. Only real flaw is that damn price!



In that case, if you really want one you should do two things:
1. if the price drops to a fair price, buy that guitar
2. if it doesn't and you still want it, buy an Agile I own one and they are amazing! 
only downside is the warranty, since you live in europe you'll have no warranty... sucks pretty bad. buy one second hand. Look at the trade section on the forum, That's where I found mine


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## ZXIIIT (Apr 16, 2012)

Why is he selling a fake JEM ?


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 16, 2012)

As a Norwegian fellow who has bought two Agile guitars before, and know of two or three others who have done the same, let me tell you: Just buy an Agile. It's easy, no stress, arrives within like 2 weeks, and is usually really good from the factory. And the best part: will cost you about half of what that thing is selling for, AFTER taxes and shipping.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

jarnozz said:


> In that case, if you really want one you should do two things:
> 1. if the price drops to a fair price, buy that guitar
> 2. if it doesn't and you still want it, buy an Agile I own one and they are amazing!
> only downside is the warranty, since you live in europe you'll have no warranty... sucks pretty bad. buy one second hand. Look at the trade section on the forum, That's where I found mine


You literally have NO IDEA how bad my GAS for an Agile have gotten throughout this thread! 
The GAS has always been there, but this thread is like throwing gasoline on a fire for me! 

Some time in the future...


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> As a Norwegian fellow who has bought two Agile guitars before, and know of two or three others who have done the same, let me tell you: Just buy an Agile. It's easy, no stress, arrives within like 2 weeks, and is usually really good from the factory. And the best part: will cost you about half of what that thing is selling for, AFTER taxes and shipping.


...I thought my GAS couldn't get worse and then you say that it's easy to buy one! 
I'm just afraid that the danish tax, if customs gets their dirty hands on it, will be quite high!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

ZOMB13 said:


> Why is he selling a fake JEM ?


Seriously, is the JEM really fake? 
It was the only "nice quality" guitar in the entire store, so I hope it isn't!


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## dr_game0ver (Apr 16, 2012)

this guitar is not even on the indie website!!
but 2000&#8364; for an agile rippoff??? the same price as the ESP NT7!! dafuq!! that's ridiculous!!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

dr_game0ver said:


> this guitar is not even on the indie website!!
> but 2000 for an agile rippoff??? the same price as the ESP NT7!! dafuq!! that's ridiculous!!


yeah, and the same price as my RG2228 as well!
I was quite shocked when they told me the price!


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## Danukenator (Apr 16, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> You literally have NO IDEA how bad my GAS for an Agile have gotten throughout this thread!
> The GAS has always been there, but this thread is like throwing gasoline on a fire for me!
> 
> Some time in the future...



To be honest, there are better. As it's been said before unless you can't afford to go a tier high, I wouldn't grab an Agile. They are also good for testing with water with a cheap 7/8 string.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 16, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> To be honest, there are better. As it's been said before unless you can't afford to go a tier high, I wouldn't grab an Agile. They are also good for testing with water with a cheap 7/8 string.


Out of curiosity, what would you recommend instead?
I like Agile's partly because of their esthetics and partly because of their features, and since I've basically tried an Agile now (the blue Indie which started this entire thread) I can honestly say that I like the way they play! 
I don't know of any other 27" scale guitars, other than the ESP Stephen Carpenter sig's and the discontinued Ibanez models. As a Schecter Owner I'm familiar with the 26.5" scale, but I've always a 27" 7string!


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## Necris (Apr 16, 2012)

jarnozz said:


> so in ordinary language just a sticker...... I don't want to live on this planet anymore



I got to play an Ibanez premium today, $979 + Tax if I remember the price tag correctly. It had a Quilted Maple top, and by that I mean it had a paper thin quilted maple veneer on top of a plain maple cap ,which in fairness is the closest you will get to a legitimate quilted maple top on an Ibanez (or any production guitar) without paying about 2 to 3 times as much. 
A Jackson in the same store looked to have a printed top (picture of a figured piece of wood blown up, printed out, applied to the guitar). 
So it's not like this is something that's relegated to shady knockoff brands. Although neither of the guitars mentioned cost nearly as much as the guitar in question.

Totally unrelated but I'm in the process of stripping my Jackson warrior and found that the body of my instrument is a Particle Board/5 or 6 pieces of scrap wood/Particle Board sandwich.


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## Neil (Apr 16, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> Seriously, is the JEM really fake?
> It was the only "nice quality" guitar in the entire store, so I hope it isn't!


Yeah, the trem is wrong.


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## Michael T (Apr 16, 2012)

I believe there is a brand called "Stadium" that also comes from the same factory as Agile.


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## benny (Apr 17, 2012)

I wouldn't call them high end at all, but when you get a good one... it's good. I'd also be curious of suggested guitars that are higher end, but similarly priced/featured.


Rear of Agile headstock, in case you wanted to compare.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 17, 2012)

benny said:


> Rear of Agile headstock, in case you wanted to compare.


That looks exactly like the Indie I played! 
It looks like the very same stamp! Location and everything!


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## littledoc (Apr 17, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> I really hate the thought about another potential costumer getting tricked into buying that guitar to an unfair price (which is why I'm making such a big deal out of it!)...



That's an admirable sentiment, but consumers are responsible for doing their own homework and making informed choices. Who on Earth would pay that kind of money for some no-name brand?


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 17, 2012)

littledoc said:


> That's an admirable sentiment, but consumers are responsible for doing their own homework and making informed choices. Who on Earth would pay that kind of money for some no-name brand?


...people who only sees the flashy side of things?

I've known a fair share of such people in my 24 years as a member of the human race!


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## Bigfan (Apr 17, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> Seriously, is the JEM really fake?
> It was the only "nice quality" guitar in the entire store, so I hope it isn't!



Heh, I'm pretty sure it is, man. Do the shop-owners know/acknowledge that?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 17, 2012)

^ Don't Jems have the Lo Pro on them? That thing doesn't look low profile to me. Then there's the non-Ibanez trem arm. Dear god, you might be right!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 17, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> ^ Don't Jems have the Lo Pro on them? That thing doesn't look low profile to me. Then there's the non-Ibanez trem arm. Dear god, you might be right!


I totally see it now...

This is what it's supposed to be like, right?






...damn that store is ridiculous!


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 17, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> ...I thought my GAS couldn't get worse and then you say that it's easy to buy one!
> I'm just afraid that the danish tax, if customs gets their dirty hands on it, will be quite high!



dude, it's the same as norwegian tax law, isn't it?

just take the store price, convert to danish kroner, and multiply by 0.25 to add 25% tax, and then add the $100 shipping (convert it to kroner of course), and BAM. final price, right there.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 17, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Heh, I'm pretty sure it is, man. Do the shop-owners know/acknowledge that?


Every bit of personal currently associated with this shop only has a very basic knowledge about guitars in general! As I mentioned earlier I almost know more about their guitars then they do!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 17, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> dude, it's the same as norwegian tax law, isn't it?
> 
> just take the store price, convert to danish kroner, and multiply by 0.25 to add 25% tax, and then add the $100 shipping (convert it to kroner of course), and BAM. final price, right there.


If I understood it correctly when I last checked, in DK you're supposed to take the entire amount (cost of the guitar + shipping), and then take and add 3.7% to that, AND THEN multiply by 1.25 (if you multiply by 0.25 you only get the 25% - by using 1.25 you get the final price right away!)!

That means, that if I take an Agile Interseptor Pro 727 (....THE GAS!!!!), which costs 725 dollars, and add a hardcase, which costs 65 dollars, and add's the shipping to DK, which costs 387 (according to Rondomusic), then you end up with 1177 dollars, or 6665 DKr!

Now add the taxes!
6665x1.037 = 6911,605
6911,605x1.25 = 8640 DKr total! 

...I could get a new hellraiser for that! xS

How people in europe, the north, or even in Denmark have gotten cheap Agile's is a mystery to me!


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## Tjore (Apr 17, 2012)

That's just too similar!
Are you sure there is no connection between Agile and Indie?
I remember trying an Indie guitar with a sort of round edge carvin-ish original telecaster body with a spalted maple top many years ago, looked nothing like this.


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## Rick (Apr 17, 2012)

No custom shop so no longer interested.


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## jarnozz (Apr 17, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> How people in europe, the north, or even in Denmark have gotten cheap Agile's is a mystery to me!



2 answers for that!

- We buy them second hand in still good condition for a good price.

- The rest of Europe pays well, with the Euro. A while ago one euro was like 1.40/145 $ so if you have a guitar worth 800 $ cost us 550 euro but not the economy is on it's but, we'd prefer option one


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## Fillifax (Apr 17, 2012)

We don't have Agile in Denmark, but we sometimes have Indie, and they have always been welcomed warmly.


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## beneharris (Apr 17, 2012)

so this is from the rondomusic website:



> These products are distributed by a number of companies throughout the world. In the United States, Rondo Music is the main reseller. The brands are frequently auctioned on www.ebay.com or may be purchased directly from Rondo Music. Other companies may distribute these products but usually under their own brand name. These guitars are essentially the same guitars with a different name printed on them.


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## Andromalia (Apr 18, 2012)

littledoc said:


> That's an admirable sentiment, but consumers are responsible for doing their own homework and making informed choices. Who on Earth would pay that kind of money for some no-name brand?



I only agree to a point, when lots of companies deliberately try to mislead their customers with false info and marketing.
The target of such companies are uninformed persons, and not everybody can be on top of everything that they buy. How about a non musician parent buying his guitar fir his child because he asked for it ? He will ask advice...to the shop seller, who seems a legit person to ask info from.


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## Deadnightshade (Apr 18, 2012)




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## Loomer (Apr 18, 2012)

littledoc said:


> That's an admirable sentiment, but consumers are responsible for doing their own homework and making informed choices. Who on Earth would pay that kind of money for some no-name brand?



As someone else said, non-musician parents buying gifts for kids. 

Also, note that this store is located in Randers, one of the all-round dumbest parts of an already pretty goddamn stupid country.

That said; some music store employees are just fucking retards, no matter the location. I was in London during Easter, and this dumbass store clerk tried to get me to believe that an Ibanez INF2 pickup was really made in DiMarzio's factory


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 18, 2012)

^Yeah, the most highly revered Aage guys are completely clueless about a great many things beyond the most basic topics.



jarnozz said:


> - The rest of Europe pays well, with the Euro. A while ago one euro was like 1.40/145 $ so if you have a guitar worth 800 $ cost us 550 euro but not the economy is on it's but, we'd prefer option one



The DKK is tied to the Euro, so the relative value should be the same. Denmark has a wonderfully exploitative tax-maze, though...



TheBloodstained said:


> Seriously, is the JEM really fake?
> It was the only "nice quality" guitar in the entire store, so I hope it isn't!



Yeah, all the nice ones have Edge, Lo Pro Edge or Edge Pro trems. I don't think they ever made one with a gold Floyd-looking trem. Also, the fit of the pickguard is completely crap and the lion's claw rout is not the right shape.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Also, note that this store is located in Randers, one of the all-round dumbest parts of an already pretty goddamn stupid country


Randers is possibly the most violence infested city in Denmark, but to call it the most stupid is quite uncalled for! 
Try the cities around Randers, then you'll see what I mean... Bjerringbro is STILL the dumbest city I've ever visited!


Pikka Bird said:


> Yeah, all the nice ones have Edge, Lo Pro Edge or Edge Pro trems. I don't think they ever made one with a gold Floyd-looking trem. Also, the fit of the pickguard is completely crap and the lion's claw rout is not the right shape.


well... I never had any interest in "JEM" guitars so I never did take a close look at it.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 18, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> If I understood it correctly when I last checked, in DK you're supposed to take the entire amount (cost of the guitar + shipping), and then take and add 3.7% to that, AND THEN multiply by 1.25 (if you multiply by 0.25 you only get the 25% - by using 1.25 you get the final price right away!)!
> 
> That means, that if I take an Agile Interseptor Pro 727 (....THE GAS!!!!), which costs 725 dollars, and add a hardcase, which costs 65 dollars, and add's the shipping to DK, which costs 387 (according to Rondomusic), then you end up with 1177 dollars, or 6665 DKr!
> 
> ...



that's what i meant to say, damn my brain for sucking! 

i'm pretty sure you do not pay any taxes for shipping. That's money that goes to Rondo Music, so they can pay USPS to ship the package. It's a service, not a product.

Here you go, this should be accurate, and includes both the 3.7% AND the 25%:
Import tax calculation result

Notice i added the case to the total price (725 + 65)

the total: Dkr6535.87


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## Prydogga (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't think that JEM is fake, it's just either a 2011 or 2012 model, as they have original edge models now. That looks a lot like an original edge, with the bevel on the backside of the saddles.

Edit: Although the gold trem arm with FR-like holder, and rather large lion's claw does look pretty odd. Hmmm.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> that's what i meant to say, damn my brain for sucking!
> 
> i'm pretty sure you do not pay any taxes for shipping. That's money that goes to Rondo Music, so they can pay USPS to ship the package. It's a service, not a product.
> 
> ...


...as long as your brain aren't full of fuck! 

Anyway, if that's true - that I don't have to include shipping costs - then everything seems a bit more plausible! About 2k saved!
If that's the case, then I understand how some fellow danes and our neighbors to the north have imported an Agile so cheaply!

I'll have to double check on everything, but for a start I'm just going to save up! Have some bills and stuff to pay at the end of the month...


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## xfilth (Apr 18, 2012)

You DO have to pay tax and customs (moms og told) for shipping. At least in Denmark.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

xfilth said:


> You DO have to pay tax and customs (moms og told) for shipping. At least in Denmark.


...seems like the only way to avoid the taxes would be to use some of those services that offers you a temporary address in USA, to which you send your package, and then they send it to Denmark and somehow avoid the taxes!

I've been talking to a danes guy who did this, and it worked like a charm for him...


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## xfilth (Apr 18, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> ...seems like the only way to avoid the taxes would be to use some of those services that offers you a temporary address in USA, to which you send your package, and then they send it to Denmark and somehow avoid the taxes!
> 
> I've been talking to a danes guy who did this, and it worked like a charm for him...



The catch: If your package is damaged in any way, you won't get any coverage


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 18, 2012)

ok, i did some googling, and you apparently do have to pay VAT and stuff for shipping. Which is odd.

Edit: i added the case to see what the shipping would be, and of course it got even more expensive, but STILL it's below 7000 DKR!

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-i...ion/saved_calculations/view_details/64608080/

check that link, and double check the numbers yourself. Still way below 8000, and still below 7000.


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## Andromalia (Apr 18, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> ...as long as your brain aren't full of fuck!
> 
> Anyway, if that's true - that I don't have to include shipping costs



That's not true, i've had the case both France and Ireland. The VAT INCLUDES the shipping price.
The net result is, buying used stuff in the US can be worth it, buying new, not really.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> ok, i did some googling, and you apparently do have to pay VAT and stuff for shipping. Which is odd.
> 
> Edit: i added the case to see what the shipping would be, and of course it got even more expensive, but STILL it's below 7000 DKR!
> 
> ...


That shipping cost from Rondomusic keeps bugging me! I tried typing all that stuff in a few times, and each time I got 387 dollars shipping, which sounds too high in my ears! xS

But yeah, when you do the math it does sound plausible!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

xfilth said:


> The catch: If your package is damaged in any way, you won't get any coverage


...and that's the real gamble! I'd might be willing to take the risk! Nowadays shipping is a more secure event than some years ago, BUT still a gamble!


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 18, 2012)

With Rondo I wouldn't worry about the shipping as much as the consistency of the product to begin with. 

Remember, Rondo DOES NOT have in-house QC/QA. They open up the box, look to see that the color/basic specs are right (but not all the time), and then ship off the guitar. I've seen plenty of users abroad get guitars with the wrong headstock, wrong scale, wrong pickups, terrible veneers, etc. 

That being said, while a return/exchange is out of the question, Kurt has been very generous about offering partial refunds to help satisfy a customer who received a product not to their liking. 

I still think that someone in the EU needs to work out a deal with Rondo as a distributor. Order the most popular models in large batches at a discount, and then have them drop shipped directly from South Korea. Or, I guess someone could just go the Indie route and speak directly to Saein, the company who makes a lot of the Rondo guitars.


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## Andromalia (Apr 18, 2012)

No need, we have Emperion.


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## xfilth (Apr 18, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> ...and that's the real gamble! I'd might be willing to take the risk! Nowadays shipping is a more secure event than some years ago, BUT still a gamble!



Speaking as an ex Post Danmark employee, I wouldn't take the chance


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

xfilth said:


> Speaking as an ex Post Danmark employee, I wouldn't take the chance


well... 4 of my guitars have been delivered by PostDanmark and none of them have had any flaws?! :shug:

It's really just the taxes and the hit'n'miss quality of the product that makes we worried!


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## BucketheadRules (Apr 18, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Probably same OEM - different name.



And a very, very different price tag


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 18, 2012)

Some things to keep in mind regarding the difference in price:

Rondo doesn't do in-house QA/QC, they just check to see that the guitar is in one piece, has similar specs to the spec sheet, and is the proper color. If these Indie models actually get a full QC look over, then that can add some value. 

Rondo sells distributor direct. I've seen this Indie brand at other stores, so it's not an in-house brand. Thus, the dealer is probably getting these closer to Agile prices, and then have to raise them just to make a profit. 

Rondo brings in large quantities of Agile guitars and thus gets certain price breaks because of it. 

I'm not saying that explains everything, but it's still going to effect the price considerably if applicable.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 18, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Some things to keep in mind regarding the difference in price:
> 
> Rondo doesn't do in-house QA/QC, they just check to see that the guitar is in one piece, has similar specs to the spec sheet, and is the proper color. If these Indie models actually get a full QC look over, then that can add some value.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I get your point...

But what I don't understand is how that blue Indie should be worth the same as an Ibanez RG2228, when it's totally clear to everyone with eyes and basic knowledge about guitars that the quality doesn't justify the price!
Had it been priced as an Agile I'd have bought it right away! 

I'm actually kind of sad, because I really liked that blue thing, and I can't stop thinking about it now!


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## Ewan (Apr 18, 2012)

Then just buy one. They are good value for money, but no longer amazing value for money due to the rising dollar (at least relative to the £ I purchase in) and the actual rising price. I bought an interceptor pro about 3-4 years ago when they were $600US and the exchange rate was 2$/1£. Now the same guitar is $700 ad the exchange rate is 1.4$/1£. They are good guitars, amazing if you're just interested in playability and specs, but as has been pointed out, the quality isn't as high as you'd expect on a more expensive guitar. Almost all have some sort of cosmetic defect that's pretty insignificant. I've found the edge of the fretboard and the frets themselves to be the most inconsistent with them. But the flaws are very minor and frets can always be dressed.

7 string Agiles are actually quite rare in Europe. They pop up in the market place here from time to time, but not often. 8 string Agiles are much easier to find because there aren't many other 8 string manufacturers so if you want to try an 8 string, Agile is the obvious choice.


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## Xaios (Apr 18, 2012)

Regarding that JEM, I would be surprised if it wasn't fake. It's hard to be completely certain, but I think that might be a Takeuchi trem. Furthermore, the alignment of the pickguard with the body is absolutely awful. Ibanez isn't always perfect with that either, but I've never seen one that bad. And, of course, there's the issue of the grossly oversized lion claw.

If you do go back, some better pictures of the Ibanez, especially the headstock and the trem. The headstocks on fake JEMs is generally a dead giveaway.


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 18, 2012)

^Exactly. The baseplate has that Takeuchi-kinda outline to it. But did they ever put one on a model like this one?


Prydogga said:


> I don't think that JEM is fake, it's just either a 2011 or 2012 model, as they have original edge models now. That looks a lot like an original edge, with the bevel on the backside of the saddles.
> 
> Edit: Although the gold trem arm with FR-like holder, and rather large lion's claw does look pretty odd. Hmmm.


Naw, it's definitely a regular LFR. You can tell the baseplate shape is FR and not Edge. Especially if you look at the corners next to the knife edges. And the "shoulders" run at an angle to where the baseplate ramps up to the fine tuners, which those on an Edge never did.


xfilth said:


> Speaking as an ex Post Danmark employee, I wouldn't take the chance


GLS guy here, and I echo that sentiment. Sure, the vast majority of deliveries go through without a hitch, but you really can't be sure. Fortunately we've tightened the grip on our drivers so they have a harder time pulling tricks that leave you hanging so at least now you are pretty much guaranteed to be face to face with the guy while he hands over the parcel. And when he does, _inspect it thoroughly_ before signing for it.


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## xfilth (Apr 19, 2012)

For the price of importing an Agile, you can get a second hand RG1527 and still have enough cash for a pickup swap


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 19, 2012)

xfilth said:


> For the price of importing an Agile, you can get a second hand RG1527 and still have enough cash for a pickup swap


Ibanez lacks the neckthrough/set-neck I love... also, nothing is more sexy than the inline reverse headstock, AND I would really like a 27" scale 7 string!
That's one reason I'm so into Agile - the design and features!

Esthetically they win by a million miles, but if I was to pick something purely for the function I'd consider an ESP LTD SC607 - the Stephen Carpenter sig. Tried one once and have had GAS since...

I guess this, for me, is one of those things you just can't reason with, you know? Like, I could get a thousand guitars that were better, but it's the Agile/Indie i crave... annoyingly! 

EDIT:
Apparently this thread has turned into me whining about how I can't have the blue Indie, how I'm to afraid of the knows Agile issues to order one and how I generally lack the balls to do anything about anything! I'm sorry for that!


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## Razzy (Apr 19, 2012)

Get it shipped to someone you know in the U.S. to look over it for you first, and then have them send it to you.


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## Frankenstone (Apr 19, 2012)

That JEM is 100% fake, period. That looks like a standard Chinese-made ripoff. There is really no debate here. If that shop is selling that as a genuine Ibanez, they are either completely clueless, or are trying to rip off their customers. Either way, I would not shop there.


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## TimSE (Apr 19, 2012)

Razzy said:


> Get it shipped to someone you know in the U.S. to look over it for you first, and then have them send it to you.



THis is worth a shot if you have someone you can do this with. 
If you get them to send it as a gift you wont have to pay import either although it does have its risks. I think you cant do anything at all if it goes missing but id risk that if its being shipped from someone I know. I have shipped goods from America from guys on here as gifts and had no problems at all.


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## bob123 (Apr 19, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> Ibanez lacks the neckthrough/set-neck I love... also, nothing is more sexy than the inline reverse headstock



Not quite. 























and


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 19, 2012)

That second one isn't necessarily fake considering more than one company is known to distribute those axes. Different distributor = different markup.


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## bob123 (Apr 19, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> That second one isn't necessarily fake considering more than one company is known to distribute those axes. Different distributor = different markup.



Im talking about the "ESP" I circled. Dont really care two shits about the agile in the middle lol.


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## 7stringDemon (Apr 19, 2012)

The fact that it sits right below a Chibanez makes me laugh.

Let's all buy one


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 19, 2012)

@bob - my bad...


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## bob123 (Apr 19, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> @bob - my bad...




 

Never been an agile man, and don't know the first thing about the, so I wouldn't know a "real one" from a "fake one".


What blows my mind though is these guitars are so cheap to begin with... what do they think they are doing? hahaha


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 19, 2012)

Making a huge profit. 

... if they sell any


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

Why d'ya reckon the Richard Z is a fake too?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 19, 2012)

the huh?


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

The LTD once more... The one Bob circled.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 19, 2012)

Pikka Bird said:


> The LTD once more... The one Bob circled.


...I was wondering about that too?!
Is everything fake in that store?

...and also, to whoever posted a lot of different Ibanez axes:
They are pretty guitars, but the first is ENORMOUSLY expensive! 23.000 DKr the last time I tried one, and lacks active pickups, reverse headstock AND the 7th string!
The Xiphos is cool and all, but it just isn't for my. I'm also kinda "a trem guy", although I've been thinking about getting another hardtail.
The Iceman sure is sexy, but again lacks the active pickups, floyd and 7th string! 

...I'm picky and I know it!


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

^Maybe you should have someone build you one, eh? Then you wouldn't have to suffer the import hell that would come with an Agile.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 19, 2012)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^Maybe you should have someone build you one, eh? Then you wouldn't have to suffer the import hell that would come with an Agile.


I have considered that opportunity, however getting something built in Denmark is REALLY expensive, which means I would have to find a luthier outside of DK?
Also thought about building one myself, but haven't got the time atm...

damn... I am truly fucked, aren't I?


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

^Well, I am getting into building. I just have to finish building my workshop then I'll be ready to go. If you still haven't found THE one when I start getting a consistent quality in my builds then perhaps we can work something out. 
I agree that some of the DK builders are crazy expensive, at least the ones I've seen the final price of. But perhaps you could ask Jens H for a quote. He'll build anything, and his example is rather reasonable, although he notes that the example in question is from 2007 and things have changed since then.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 19, 2012)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^Well, I am getting into building. I just have to finish building my workshop then I'll be ready to go. If you still haven't found THE one when I start getting a consistent quality in my builds then perhaps we can work something out.
> I agree that some of the DK builders are crazy expensive, at least the ones I've seen the final price of. But perhaps you could ask Jens H for a quote. He'll build anything, and his example is rather reasonable, although he notes that the example in question is from 2007 and things have changed since then.


That sure does sound like a possibility. I've always wanted my very own custom axe... though I'm not sure how unique it would be since the design I want already has been made!


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, you could refine it a bit... Add a _real_ top instead of a veneer, perhaps some natural faux-binding or actual plastic (or even wood) binding, a more personal finish, natural back, some extra comfortable carves on the cutaways, etc... Base it on the Septor/Interceptor and go from there. And of course it'd have some signature flourishes that my friend and i are already working out.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 19, 2012)

Pikka Bird said:


> Well, you could refine it a bit... Add a _real_ top instead of a veneer, perhaps some natural faux-binding or actual plastic (or even wood) binding, a more personal finish, natural back, some extra comfortable carves on the cutaways, etc... Base it on the Septor/Interceptor and go from there.


So... when did you say you could build this? 

Just the thought of something like that made me drool uncontrollably!


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 19, 2012)

Ha ha... I'll probably be posting a NWD (New Workshop Day) when we get all the walls and shelves up and tools installed. Then we'll see how talented we really are.


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## 7stringDemon (Apr 20, 2012)

I just had a thought. . . . . (I'm still thinking about the Chibanez)

If you become a super famous guitarist using nothing but a Chibanez, which company would contact you for endorsement? Ibanez or the Ripoff brand?


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## BucketheadRules (Apr 20, 2012)

I've seen and played a couple of Indies in shops over here.

They're nothing special, and some of them are truly hideous.

That 7-string looks nice, but it also looks very much like a £500 Agile, as others have said. Run a freaking mile. If I was shelling out two grand on a guitar, I'd want something fucking special, not mass-produced and overpriced. You could get a fucking ESP Horizon NT-7 for less than this, and you'd have a quality, Japanese-made guitar that you know a lot of care went into.

The reason Agiles are so cheap is that the quality control is bypassed significantly (IIRC) - so there are some gems, and some fucking turds, like with any company - but the hit rate is a lot worse for Agile. If this is the same OEM with a different name on it, how do you know you aren't spending two grand on a piece of shit?


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 20, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> ...If this is the same OEM with a different name on it, how do you know you aren't spending two grand on a piece of shit?


Earlier in this thread it was confirmed by someone with connections to the factory that the blue Indie I played actually IS an Agile with another brand name on the headstock! Both Agile and Indie guitars are supposedly made from the same factory, and then distributed and sold as separate brands.
Also, as much as I want that blue Indie I would never spend that amount of cash on it. I've been looking into getting something custom made instead, but as I don't really need another guitar atm it won't be likely that anything like that would happen any time soon.

It's all dreams and happy thoughts right now!


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## Xaios (Apr 21, 2012)

Good decision. Judging by the sounds of it, that Indie would have been a GIGANTIC ripoff, even if it is a decent guitar up to the standard of Agile's better qualify offerings.

Good luck.


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## Logan Baxter (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi

I have a couple of Indie's in my small collection. The brand had some limited popularity in the UK for a few years but seems to have gone away. The stuff i have is great quality and I would love to get one of their 7 strings. The Indie website shows no signs of any 7 strings at all. Can you tell me the name of the store you saw it at?

Thanks


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## CruzDrum (Apr 23, 2012)

you have a ibby rg2228 why do you want an agile?


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## Dionysian (Apr 24, 2012)

If you want an Agile here in Denmark, I think you should buy used from the US. The seller, as a private person, can just send it as a gift, and then you won't have to pay taxes. 

Even if customs open it, I don't think they can charge you. If the guitar shows signs of wear, they can't prove that it's a new product that you just bought. Might as well have been a guitar you couldn't/forgot to bring along home last time you visited your American aunt. 

That said, I'd still much rather get a Jens H or a RAN - or a Daemoness.


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## signalgrey (Apr 24, 2012)

They sell them here in Korea, Agile might just be one of several export names.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 24, 2012)

Logan Baxter said:


> Can you tell me the name of the store you saw it at?
> 
> Thanks


A small local music store called "Pro Musik"!
PRO MUSIK ApS
They haven't listed that blue Indie on their website. The only place you can see it is in their store showroom.


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 24, 2012)

CruzDrum said:


> you have a ibby rg2228 why do you want an agile?


Several reasons...
1) Just because you have an Ibanez RG2228 you can also have other guitars.
2) no matter what I do I always seem to return to 7strings.
3) esthetics - almost ALL the Agile Interceptor's have all the esthetic I'd want in a guitar, and should I have a custom built axe at some point I'd might have myself an Agile clone. I just really, really like their looks.
4) The Agile features almost all the specs and hardware I wan't - namely 27" scale neckthrough 7string with double locking floydrose and either active EMG707 or Seymour Duncan Blackouts - all wrapped in delicious finishes.
5) Playability - now that I've tried one I can honestly say that I liked how it performed and that I could easily see myself playing one every day!
6) I'm somewhat a guitar "collector"! 

Also, as nice as my RG2228 is I don't really enjoy it THAT much. It's a nice guitar, and I'm going to keep it, but as I'm using it for drop F tuning atm I can't use it as a 7string like I used to, so another 7string would be nice.
My Schecter C7 Jeff Loomis FR is STILL the axe that sees the most action in my house, and I really want another C7 some time in the future (been thinking about buying a C7 Hellraiser FR with the cherry black finish - I like the abalone binding and red finish which I know a lot of people hate!)...

Did that answer your question?


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 24, 2012)

Eskil Rask said:


> If you want an Agile here in Denmark, I think you should buy used from the US. The seller, as a private person, can just send it as a gift, and then you won't have to pay taxes.
> 
> Even if customs open it, I don't think they can charge you. If the guitar shows signs of wear, they can't prove that it's a new product that you just bought. Might as well have been a guitar you couldn't/forgot to bring along home last time you visited your American aunt.
> 
> That said, I'd still much rather get a Jens H or a RAN - or a Daemoness.


I've been scouting the market for EU Agile's this past week. I would rather buy a used Agile within the EU than having any trouble with customs! 
Anyhow, I think my Agile dreams came on hold once Again, mainly because my GAS for a Schecter C7 Hellraiser got worse after spending some quality time with my other Schecter this weekend! 
I simply love Schecter guitars! 

With that said - a custom Jens H axe could be a possibility that I would consider! Would be awesome to get my own little custom Agile clone!


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## Kimling (Apr 24, 2012)

Aren't those "Pro Musik"-guys the same as Nettomusic who was well known in Denmark for being complete d*ckheads using every possible chance to cheat and rip off customers? I wouldn't set my foot in their shop. Best to avoid them


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 24, 2012)

Kimling said:


> Aren't those "Pro Musik"-guys the same as Nettomusic who was well known in Denmark for being complete d*ckheads using every possible chance to cheat and rip off customers? I wouldn't set my foot in their shop. Best to avoid them


Pretty much... The store was called Nettomusic a few years ago. I remember paying the store a visit back when I searched for a 5string bas. Can't remember much except that the guy in the store really wanted to sell me a Cort bas I didn't like! 

The people who work at Pro Musik now don't really know much about anything, but they are nice enough to talk to. Been having some longer conversations with some of them.
REALLY crappy musicstore IMO!
Makes me wanna open my own musicstore just to show them how things are done!


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## Xaios (Apr 24, 2012)

Eskil Rask said:


> If you want an Agile here in Denmark, I think you should buy used from the US. The seller, as a private person, can just send it as a gift, and then you won't have to pay taxes.
> 
> Even if customs open it, I don't think they can charge you. If the guitar shows signs of wear, they can't prove that it's a new product that you just bought. Might as well have been a guitar you couldn't/forgot to bring along home last time you visited your American aunt.
> 
> That said, I'd still much rather get a Jens H or a RAN - or a Daemoness.



Customs officials aren't morons, you know. They don't have to prove squat, they only have to suspect. It's on you to prove them wrong if they hold up your guitar.

Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that it's a FELONY.


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## TimSE (Apr 24, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> I've been scouting the market for EU Agile's this past week. I would rather buy a used Agile within the EU than having any trouble with customs!



You got PM!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 24, 2012)

TimSE said:


> You got PM!


You got replied!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 25, 2012)

to sum up this thread... one thing has let to another, and... well...

let's just say that there will be a NGD at some point in the coming weeks! xD


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## Loomer (Apr 25, 2012)

Oh, so you bought the fake JEM then?!


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## TheBloodstained (Apr 25, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Oh, so you bought the fake JEM then?!


Haha! 

No... fortunately not! 
I will say this much! A SS.org member basically did this to me:



...and now I'm really excited!


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