# Need new pickups. Has to be the mother of Djent - Dimarzio vs Bareknuckle vs Duncan!



## lewis (Mar 31, 2016)

Hey guys

So I am Modding my 7 string (my bands primary axe - Tuning Ab open sometimes the A down to an F etc). The guitar is a all Mahogany Ibanez ARZ307 les paul. 25 inch scale, set neck. Its surprisingly awesome.

Now apart from owning the Duncan Distortion/59 combo YEARS back Ive genuinely never had any experience with DiMarzio, Bareknuckle or the other Duncan pups.

The time has come to swap out the stock ibanez pickups from my ARZ (which are actually decent tbf). I need something thats suppppper djenty. Like THE most Djenty possible haha.

Tone wise Im a big fan of Heart of a Coward (which are very bright loads of Presence type tone - using EMgs) but also the Periphery sound so Im open to all suggestions as long as the thing is djenty as hell and works well in Mahogany.

So Dimarzio have some nice cover options (and now the Titan 7s) but I have no idea which would be suitable from them, Ive seen the Duncan Nazgul and it sounds awesome too. Ideally I would want it covered though and in chrome or some sort of silver (To go with the guitar) but thats not a major big deal as I could probably cover any I do choose myself at a later date anyhow.

Most have suggested Bareknuckle?, are they geuinely worth the high price (Love the look of the Tyger covers) 

So yeah Im totally ignorant to modern pickup choices. Anyone have some suggestions for me and maybe first hand experience etc?. 

Thanks


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## longfalcon (Mar 31, 2016)

lewis said:


> .... (which are very bright loads of Presence type tone - using EMgs) ...



hate to be that guy .... but maybe consider EMGs?


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## RUSH_Of_Excitement (Mar 31, 2016)

There's this great new startup pickup company called Darude, I have the Sandstorm model in my 7 and it's the exact Periphery tone


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## ASoC (Mar 31, 2016)

There are a lot of pickups that work for djent, that's a highly processed guitar tone. That being said, you generally benefit from a pretty dry pickup when you're using that much processing. Any of the Periphery sig pickups will meet your needs, the DiMarzio D-Activator is also a good choice as well as the SD Nazgul. I've had both and been able to get a very aggressive djenty sound out of them. I'd say that the D-Activator was the superior pickup of the two, as it felt like it had a more even response and could be more easily molded with EQ, which makes it feel more versatile. That being said, I have a 6 string Nazgul and I've only ever tried it in Drop C (excellent djent sound) but I have a feeling that I would not like the sound of it at all if it was closer to standard tuning. That's the extent of my experience with pickups I think you would like, as always YMMV


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## chewpac (Mar 31, 2016)

you might try the kiesel lithium models. they are crazy clear, articulate, and can djent like nobodies business.


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## lewis (Mar 31, 2016)

longfalcon said:


> hate to be that guy .... but maybe consider EMGs?



No can do man. Im not interested in my guitar needing to be powered by batteries, plus I have no room in the guitar for batteries and I would need to swap out the electrics to 25k pots. Cant be bothered with all the messing about. Really wish EMG would develop some quality passive options. The HZs were shocking terrible.


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## robski92 (Mar 31, 2016)

BKP - Painkiller, Aftermath, Juggs. SD: Nazgul, Maybe the Custom? I think those are the ones I always see recommended. The Painkiller can definitely djent though


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## lewis (Mar 31, 2016)

robski92 said:


> BKP - Painkiller, Aftermath, Juggs. SD: Nazgul, Maybe the Custom? I think those are the ones I always see recommended. The Painkiller can definitely djent though



ok so really then its probably Juggernauts from Bareknuckle or Nazgul from Duncan.


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## Metropolis (Mar 31, 2016)

lewis said:


> ok so really then its probably Juggernauts from Bareknuckle or Nazgul from Duncan.



Juggs are quite similar to Titan what I've heard. Had a Nazgul in Ibanez RGD7421 and it had way too much treble, kind of fizzy top end wich was almost impossible to get rid of.

Now I have Titan in RG652KFX and it's great for my needs. No awfull fizziness, tight lower mids and enough bass. Very even and articulate pickup. But in the other hand Nazgul should work very well in a guitar with set-neck construction.


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## lewis (Mar 31, 2016)

Metropolis said:


> Juggs are quite similar to Titan what I've heard. Had a Nazgul in Ibanez RGD7421 and it had way too much treble, kind of fizzy top end wich was almost impossible to get rid of.
> 
> Now I have Titan in RG652KFX and it's great for my needs. No awfull fizziness, tight lower mids and enough bass. Very even and articulate pickup. But in the other hand Nazgul should work very well in a guitar with set-neck construction.



Im really interested in the Titans but finding somewhere selling the chrome finished ones I want in the UK seems really tough. Bonus that they are alot cheaper too. I tend to like my high end presence so Nazgul could be amazing. The guitar is a single cut so its all 1 piece.


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## ProtoTechDeath (Mar 31, 2016)

RUSH_Of_Excitement said:


> There's this great new startup pickup company called Darude, I have the Sandstorm model in my 7 and it's the exact Periphery tone



You're telling me that pickup doesn't give me those awesome synth leads made famous by the early 2000's hit of the same name?


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## Jaek-Chi (Mar 31, 2016)

When i think 'djenty' pickup my brain goes to the following:

BKP Aftermaths
BKP Juggernauts
Dimarzio Titans


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## RUSH_Of_Excitement (Mar 31, 2016)

ProtoTechDeath said:


> You're telling me that pickup doesn't give me those awesome synth leads made famous by the early 2000's hit of the same name?



Idk what you're talking about, I've never heard that song before


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## Noxon (Mar 31, 2016)

I just put Titan 7s in one of my mahogany bodied guitars and I really like them. They will most definitely djent. The thing that stands out most to me about the Titan is the clarity. You can hit huge 7 string chords and hear every single note...even with a lot of gain. Very even. It is also incredibly tight. Like, EMG 81 type tight. The cleans are also really nice. Never played a BKP or the Nazgul, so I can't comment on those, but I do not regret going with the Titans at all. I think it would meet your needs and you would be very pleased with it.


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## Aymara (Apr 1, 2016)

Let me ask a little provocative question: Which Djent band uses full mahogany guitars?

No offense intended, but that being asked, most of above recommendations seem pretty useless to me, because we need to take the wood into account. A Nazgul for example is being said to sound pretty crappy in a full mahogany guitar.

So I fear, the main question is: Which pickups sound djenty in a full mahogany guitar, which has a pretty dark tone by it's wood choice?

So far only Noxon answered THAT question.


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## cult (Apr 1, 2016)

In Mahogany:
Lundgren M7
DiMarzio Drop Sonic
Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat

All sounding very similar. All able to keep the low end tight as a nuns ....


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## Dead-Pan (Apr 1, 2016)

I had D Activators, Aftermath and Lundgren M.

Sold all but the Lundgren. Tons of clear lows with great pick attack as well as pretty balanced with clear highs.


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## Aymara (Apr 1, 2016)

Dead-Pan said:


> I Tons of clear lows with great pick attack as well as pretty balanced with clear highs.



Such info is pretty useless without any info about the guitar / body wood, sorry.


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## Drew (Apr 1, 2016)

RUSH_Of_Excitement said:


> Idk what you're talking about, I've never heard that song before



Pity. It'd have been one hell of an April Fool's joke setup, had you.


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## bnzboy (Apr 1, 2016)

im going to be that weird guy and recommend something entirely different; dimarzio paf pro. my stat has it and it just djents like no other guitars with the right amp.


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## Science_Penguin (Apr 1, 2016)

lewis said:


> No can do man. Im not interested in my guitar needing to be powered by batteries, plus I have no room in the guitar for batteries and I would need to swap out the electrics to 25k pots. Cant be bothered with all the messing about. Really wish EMG would develop some quality passive options. The HZs were shocking terrible.



When you buy EMGs they supply you with the pots and the basic wiring stuff. Real simple- no soldering involved apart from the switch (which, if you've got a strat-style route, they have a solder-free switch for that)

Can't help you with the space issue as far as batteries go, but I can say those things last you for a LONG time as long as you remember to unplug when not playing.


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## punisher911 (Apr 1, 2016)

Will Black Winters do that? I just put them into my solid mahogany SE245 and they are pretty darn amazing.


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## ASoC (Apr 2, 2016)

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. I don't think that mahogany construction is super important, because of the incredible variation in a naturally grown material like wood, even within the same tree. What does make a BIG difference on the tone is the 25" scale length (how many djent bands use that?) and the set neck construction. I think the only reason people think of full mahogany guitars as being darker is because they're traditionally constructed Gibson style. That is to say, with a set neck and shorter scale length, which are 2 things that definitely make your guitar sound darker, ESPECIALLY the scale length.


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## Aymara (Apr 2, 2016)

ASoC said:


> I don't think that mahogany construction is super important, ...



It is important, because a full mahogany guitar will always sound darker / warmer as a swamp ash / maple combination, that is usually used for Djent. There will for sure be slight variations in mahogany, but again, it sounds always darker as typical Djent guitars like e.g. a Schecter KM.


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## Hachetjoel (Apr 2, 2016)

Please let us stay on topic and not let this thread get locked because of tone wood you either believe in it or you don't, either way shut the .... up. 

For bkp, juggs are the clear winner designed strictly for djent, aftermaths are very mid heavy although very harsh sounding. 

For Seymour Duncan I would stay very far away from the nazgul I think it is one of the worst pickups out there, harsh, lacks character, lacks clarity not particularly tight, just stay away. There are people that can make this pickup work but those people know what they want and that's not you. I would say black winters or Pegasus bridge sentient neck. 

DiMarzio. Titans, d activator, ionizers, illuminators, Evo 7 all excellent choices out of those I'd recommend the illuminators, DiMarzio claims they are far tighter than any bkp offering and I would have to agree z compared to the juggs and the aftermath I would say the illuminators are not only tighter but preferable in other areas, in my experience they were quiter more aggressive had bc better cleans and much better note separation, something bkp prides themselves on. 

Lundgrens, the lundgrens are about as tight as pickups get but they lack character the bridge is really good but I would stay away from the neck pickup.


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## Aymara (Apr 2, 2016)

Hachetjoel said:


> Please let us stay on topic ...



I don't think, that it is off topic to say, that not every pickup sounds the same in different guitars ... and tone wood definitely plays a role here.

But enough said ... I'm outta here.


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## Mega-Mads (Apr 2, 2016)

RUSH_Of_Excitement said:


> Idk what you're talking about, I've never heard that song before



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXHB1wZ2L-0


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## nistley (Apr 2, 2016)

Hachetjoel said:


> For bkp, juggs are the clear winner designed strictly for djent, aftermaths are very mid heavy although very harsh sounding.



As a happy owner of Juggs, I have to chime in to disagree. It's pretty much the opposite, they are designed to be sweet in highs and prominent low-mids. This coupled with quite moderate output makes them extremely versatile, great attack, nice drop chug, good in split coil. I love them, but I have to have a much different preset for them for high gain djenty stuff, compared to my EMG and even Tone Zone pickups. The upside is the clarity and articulation, and all that, but they're a little harder to play that way, as a result. I like Aftermath too, and I think it's "djentier". 

For general advice on this topic. You can dj dj djent with almost any pickups, I think saw Aaron Marshall do it with SD Texas Hot singlecoils live, last week. There are also different types of djent, Modern Day Babylon couldn't sound the way they do with EMGs, yet EMGs are specifically designed for high gain and are compressed for that reason. There is not enough information given in original post to suggest a specific model. There are all sorts of sound effects you could be looking for, there are versatile and specialized pickups.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Apr 2, 2016)

I got rid of the Aftermath because it only had one sound and it was always full on Djent.


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## ASoC (Apr 2, 2016)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I got rid of the Aftermath because it only had one sound and it was always full on Djent.



While I wouldn't say this is true for everyone, it's the reason that I fell out of love with the D-Activator 7. Under my picking hand it always had that pissed off djenty sound and it was too dry. Whenever I tried to play anything that wasn't djent I found it to be lacking some body and fullness. I pretty much feel the same way about the Nazgul, but that's why it's in my drop C guitar, which is only used for djent. 

I will give the DA7 credit though, it's a mean djent machine in drop Ab.


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## lewis (Apr 2, 2016)

some very interesting info in here so far. Thanks guy!. lets keep it going.

From all that Ive read here I would say it narrows it down to
Juggs
Aftermath
Titan
DActivator 7
Illuminators

So we have ruled out the Duncans and EMGs (as I said I dont want actives).
I know the Dimarzio's are going to be alot cheaper arent they than the Bareknuckles. I can get a set of Juggs for £270 which does seem loads (my 8 string guitar cost me this much for example hahah)

perhaps I could list my fave bands/tones to help narrow this down too:

Architects
Heart of a coward (but as discussed they use EMG that I dont want)
Monuments
After the Burial
DVSR
Novelists

If this helps give a better Idea.


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## noob_pwn (Apr 2, 2016)

lewis said:


> some very interesting info in here so far. Thanks guy!. lets keep it going.
> 
> From all that Ive read here I would say it narrows it down to
> Juggs
> ...



Tom from architects tracked with juggs on their new record. Before that it was mostly EMG's. DVSR use EMG's in studio and live. ATB use blackouts. Monuments like their painkillers afaik. No idea about the other bands.

I think you need to think more about what's going to work well in YOUR guitar. It's a 25" scale, set neck and mahogany. Most of the bands you like are using guitars with a longer scale length than you and that's a huge contributor to tone.
Based on what you own, You don't want anything with too much output or low mids in that or it's going to get a bit messy and muddy. 
This leads me to recommend the painkiller. It fills out the frequencies that your guitar wouldn't naturally have.


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## ASoC (Apr 3, 2016)

^some very solid advice. 

Shoot the guys at bkp an email with your guitar's specs, your amp, and the kind of sound you want. In my experience their recommendations are on point.


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## lewis (Apr 3, 2016)

noob_pwn said:


> *Tom from architects tracked with juggs on their new record. Before that it was mostly EMG's*. DVSR use EMG's in studio and live. ATB use blackouts. Monuments like their painkillers afaik. No idea about the other bands.
> 
> I think you need to think more about what's going to work well in YOUR guitar. It's a 25" scale, set neck and mahogany. Most of the bands you like are using guitars with a longer scale length than you and that's a huge contributor to tone.
> Based on what you own, You don't want anything with too much output or low mids in that or it's going to get a bit messy and muddy.
> This leads me to recommend the painkiller. It fills out the frequencies that your guitar wouldn't naturally have.



This is great advice especially to do with scale (which I do know about as Im a 8 string player aswell) but what I would say is somehow, someway, this Ibanez les paul doesnt respond or sound like you would expect a smaller scale 25 inch all mahogany guitar would sound.

Firstly the scale doesnt seem to be a problem. Im tuned to Ab. I fully expected it to be and put off using it for over 2 years for this reason. Tried it again recently and was like "What?....It actually works really well for my use? huh?" haha. It still stays defined, heavy and twangy.

Secondly it doesnt sound like its mahogany at all. Its a really light guitar for example. My 8 string Ibanez basswood blah blah is much heavier in weight.
my other 8 string which is all mahogany too is reallllly dark sounding, even with Lace death/xbars in it but this 7 string doesnt have this problem at all. It seems really balanced tonally.

My primary amp setup is a Kemper profiler so amp sounds are not a problem.

EDIT: No surprise Im in love with their new album guitar tone now that I know he used the Juggs, than I was before when we used EMGs on previous albums. There is just something I seriously dislike about EMG tone. Not for me at all.


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## metale (Apr 3, 2016)

Don't rule out the Pegasus. I have it on a 6 and it rules.


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## oneblackened (Apr 3, 2016)

lewis said:


> Architects
> Heart of a coward (but as discussed they use EMG that I dont want)
> Monuments
> After the Burial
> ...




Architects, Monuments, Novelists, and Heart Of A Coward all use EMGs. 

After The Burial use SD Blackouts. 



Though, if you want maximum dj0nt, Aftermaths are the pickups you'll want.


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## Aymara (Apr 3, 2016)

oneblackened said:


> Architects, Monuments, Novelists, and Heart Of A Coward all use EMGs.



John Browne of Monuments nowadays mainly plays Mayones guitars with passive pickups.


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## lewis (Apr 3, 2016)

Aymara said:


> John Browne of Monuments nowadays mainly plays Mayones guitars with passive pickups.



Plus Architects just dropped a studio diary video and you can clearly see the guitars dont have EMGs but passives. Look like Bareknuckles to me as was discussed earlier in the thread.


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## lewis (Apr 3, 2016)

oneblackened said:


> Architects, Monuments, Novelists, and Heart Of A Coward all use EMGs.
> 
> After The Burial use SD Blackouts.
> 
> ...



more than the Juggs then? interesting.


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## Dana (Apr 3, 2016)

Djent is more about the style. And how you dial in your amp.

But I don't think you could go wrong with any of the suggestions.

My personal opinion is a painkiller. It's got real tight attack, and good string separation, but also has real fluid like sustain that melts together like lava


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## chopeth85 (Apr 4, 2016)

I have a bkp painkiller bridge in a lp guitar style. Before that guitar had the painkiller , the guitar had miracle man, warpig and aftermath. 

In my opinon, the best pickup , by far, is the painkiller. It's thick and really aggresive, and really clear. The bottom end is out of this world; the perfect mix between the juggernaut and the aftermath . The aftermath the lp guitar was extremely dry and way more thin than the painkiller. 

I had a schecter banshee 8 ( alder bolt on body, maple / walnut neck, thin maple top and ebony fretboard ) and that guitar had in the bridge the following pups: nazgul, juggernaut and m8. My thoughts: 

- nazgul: not a bad pickup but extremely metallic sound. It has a clear sound but not specially articulated or organic. Awuful sound in split mode. Clear but a bit loose at low volumes ( amp not cranked ) . It sounds really close to Meshuggah's " Obzen" album. 
- juggernaut: really thick sound. Really organic and full. Amazing pickup but too big in the 8 string.
- M8: the clearest pickup. Stays clear at every moment. Really well balanced un all the frecuencies but for me the problem is that the tone is completely steril totally liveness. It's like you put a CD in your amp and push play. 


To sum up: with your guitar i havent doubts ; painkiller;


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## Josh Delikan (Apr 4, 2016)

Dead-Pan said:


> I had D Activators, Aftermath and Lundgren M.
> 
> Sold all but the Lundgren. Tons of clear lows with great pick attack as well as pretty balanced with clear highs.



This. Once I had my first experience with the Lundgren M series I knew I could never go back to anything else!


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## Dead-Pan (Apr 4, 2016)

Aymara said:


> Such info is pretty useless without any info about the guitar / body wood, sorry.



Really you are correct. I swapped them out to many guitars. My main 6 is all mahogany and the Lundgren is perfect.


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## robski92 (Apr 4, 2016)

When I recommended the painkiller I was using it with my RGA121. It gets super tight but you can dial in a few other sounds with it as well. Also, I have a lundgren M8 in my RG8 and that thing is killer.


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## Jaek-Chi (Apr 4, 2016)

1 Up for painkillers


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## lewis (Apr 5, 2016)

no offence to the suggestion but Im not after the Lundgren. Im just not interested.

So with that in mind that leaves me Juggs, Aftermath and Painkiller.
At this moment in time I would say Im leaning towards the Aftermath/Juggs based on the suggestions and tone demos Ive heard. Thanks everyone who has weighed in so far.

Does anyone happen to have the Juggs and AFtermaths and mind doing some sort of comparison?. I couldnt seem to find any decent ones on Youtube.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Apr 5, 2016)

I don't know what pickups that stem is using, but that exaggerated "shicka shicka shick" sound is a pretty key characteristic of them.


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## lewis (Apr 6, 2016)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I don't know what pickups that stem is using, but that exaggerated "shicka shicka shick" sound is a pretty key characteristic of them.




We talking about the Aftermath here?


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## Vrollin (Apr 6, 2016)

Blackwinters would be my vote...


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## lewis (Apr 6, 2016)

Vrollin said:


> Blackwinters would be my vote...


Arent they supposed to be designed for Death Metal specifically?


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## Casper777 (Apr 6, 2016)

lewis said:


> Arent they supposed to be designed for Death Metal specifically?



Hey guys stop sticking with these marketing messages and start trusting your ears! It's called Black Winter so it's only suitable for black metal and so on...

Any ceramic pickup with a good amount of high mids will do the job... Then the question is... Do YOU Djent? 

Give the painkiller a try. And if you are on a bugdet many DiMarzio mentionned would be nice.

My 2 cents? A good old pickups may be the grandfather of the so called "Djent" pickups.... Ever heard of Evolution pickups kid? Tight as ...., good high mids and bright enough for a mahogany guitar....


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## robski92 (Apr 6, 2016)

> I don't know what pickups that stem is using, but that exaggerated "shicka shicka shick" sound is a pretty key characteristic of them.



That album was done with Music Man JP's loaded with Dimarzio Illuminators or Crunchlab/Liquifires I believe. It was definitely recorded before Lee switched to Carvin/Kiesel though.


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## Silence2-38554 (Apr 7, 2016)

Having tried the majority of the pickups suggested here, I would recommend, for your mahogany set neck guitar, aftermaths, Titans, ceramic nailbombs or ceramic black hawks. And for the record, John Browne has ceramic nailbombs in his signature mayones. 

As a thorough lover of Juggernauts, I would not recommend them for your guitar. They really shine in naturally thin sounding guitars, which yours is not. Yours is probably close to the opposite, which is why I highly recommend the aftermath or Titan, as these two sets sound incredibly similar.


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## lewis (Apr 8, 2016)

Silence2-38554 said:


> Having tried the majority of the pickups suggested here, I would recommend, for your mahogany set neck guitar, aftermaths, Titans, ceramic nailbombs or ceramic black hawks. And for the record, John Browne has ceramic nailbombs in his signature mayones.
> 
> As a thorough lover of Juggernauts, I would not recommend them for your guitar. They really shine in naturally thin sounding guitars, which yours is not. Yours is probably close to the opposite, which is why I highly recommend the aftermath or Titan, as these two sets sound incredibly similar.



Thanks for this man. Very informative. Nice, so I will prioritize Aftermaths or Titans for this particular guitar. I want a 2nd 7string in the future so I can get that as say basswood/maple neck instead and put the Juggs in there.


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## JeffRaines (Apr 10, 2016)

I recently put a set of Titans in a Jackson SL2 Pro. After ordering them I was afraid of them being too geared toward 'djenty' stuff but I figured at worst I could just exchange them. After installing them I will tell you one thing - they are surprisingly not djenty. In my experience they're very transparent - they take EQ well and will mold to whatever you desire them to be. 

Not necessarily a bad thing, just a heads up.



Casper777 said:


> ...My 2 cents? A good old pickups may be the grandfather of the so called "Djent" pickups.... Ever heard of Evolution pickups kid? Tight as ...., good high mids and bright enough for a mahogany guitar....



I have a set of Evos in a RG570... I would definitely say they get closer than the Titans do, however the Titan wins in clarity under distortion... not by much though.


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## MerlinTKD (Apr 10, 2016)

Silence2-38554 said:


> Having tried the majority of the pickups suggested here, I would recommend, for your mahogany set neck guitar, aftermaths, Titans, ceramic nailbombs or ceramic black hawks. And for the record, John Browne has ceramic nailbombs in his signature mayones.
> 
> As a thorough lover of Juggernauts, I would not recommend them for your guitar. They really shine in naturally thin sounding guitars, which yours is not. Yours is probably close to the opposite, which is why I highly recommend the aftermath or Titan, as these two sets sound incredibly similar.



Out of curiosity, how would you expect Juggernauts to sound in an Ash 8-string?


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## oneblackened (Apr 16, 2016)

lewis said:


> more than the Juggs then? interesting.



Yeah. Aftermaths have this high mid peak that kind of defines that sound.


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