# Stuck in a guitar playing rut



## youheardme (Mar 16, 2010)

Hey guys,

Let me stat out by telling a little about myself. I've been playing guitar for about 5 years maybe? Started out playing stuff like Metallica, iron maiden as any guitar player would. More so into COB, darkest hour now.... I'm currently now in a band, we play shows every couple months etc.

In the past year I find I don't have the same about of time I used to be able to dedicate towards playing. So I find that my skill has not been able to improve at all.

When I do play and try to be creative I just end up playing the same notes and shapes that I always have.

For example:

e: 5 - 8
b: 5 - 8
g: 5 - 7
d: 5 - 7
a: 5 - 7
E: 5 - 8



e: 12 - 14 - 15
b: 12 - 13 - 15
g: 11 - 12 - 14
d: 11 - 12 - 14
a: 10 - 12 - 14
E: 10 - 12 - 14


and so on...


My playing is turning out far too chromatic for my liking and I'd like to spice it up. I've tried learning music theory but I just don't seem to get it. I understand the shapes of the major and minor scales but I don't know how to apply to create newer music that actually appeals to my ears. It always just ends up being
e: 0 - 1 - 3 - 5 - 3 - 5 - 7 - so on untill i'm just mashing the fuck outta 3 frets like john petrucci would... ( which drives me nuts )



I dunno...
If anyone has some tips or some new shapes I could experiment with that would be helpful.


Thanks


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 16, 2010)

The focus on the "shapes" is what's pretty much leading you to a repetitive playing rut. Trust me, I've been where you are. 

Other than learning theory, which would be very helpful, I suggest you look into playing a certain type of music, or choosing a very technical piece to work on. It's not as instantly rewarding as learning a new pattern, but it'll really open up your playing and help to dig you out of a rut. 

Whenever my own creativity tends to diminish I usually choose a Vai, Satch, Lane, or Petrucci song to work on. This usually causes me to play outside of my "norms" and thus I get a little inspiration here and there. 

Get it?


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## youheardme (Mar 16, 2010)

Hmmm, I would agree that my focus on shapes is what the problem is...

I think trying a new kind of music would be beneficial as well... I mostly focus on metal.

As for learning some new songs by those artists... I've done that many times in the past... Like, i've learned scarified - paul gilbert, glasgow kiss - petrucci, mystical potato head grove thing - satch, for the love of god - vai.
Not the whole songs mastering the solos etc haha... but enough to have a good grasp on the songs. I find that even after I do get the songs down those techniques don't seem to come out in my playing if you know what I mean.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 16, 2010)

youheardme said:


> Hmmm, I would agree that my focus on shapes is what the problem is...
> 
> I think trying a new kind of music would be beneficial as well... I mostly focus on metal.
> 
> ...



Then perhaps you should focus on playing stuff you're not accustomed to, such as some Fusion (Holdsworth, Gambale, Stern) or Country (Burton, Buchanan, Paisley). 

Don't just try and learn something like a transcription robot, but really take in the material and try to understand why certain note choices were made. Maybe not in a theoretical sense, but in a melodic sense.


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## Origin (Mar 16, 2010)

He speaks troof, put something on your lap that you've never cranked out before and let the guitarist's playing show you something new


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## FWB (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't think there's anything wrong with focusing on fretboard shapes to improve your guitar playing. I would focus on learning the 3 note per string shapes everywhere on the fretboard. You'll want to try starting them on different shapes, on different strings, different strokes, etc. Getting all seven 3NPS shapes clean and fast is really enough to keep you going for a while.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 16, 2010)

FWB said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with focusing on fretboard shapes to improve your guitar playing. I would focus on learning the 3 note per string shapes everywhere on the fretboard. You'll want to try starting them on different shapes, on different strings, different strokes, etc. Getting all seven 3NPS shapes clean and fast is really enough to keep you going for a while.



They're great practice, but I've yet to really see them improve my _writing_, and I've been working on those for the better part of a decade. 

Technique wise they'll do wonders, but without either theory to back them up, or a melodic notion to utilize them, they're just basic finger exercises.


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## FWB (Mar 16, 2010)

On their own, they are tools and they would not really improve anyone's playing just as an excercise. That said, alot of guitarists struggle early on with composing solos due to the fact that they don't really know where to go outside of the pentatonic minor box shape, or whatever scale they happen to know and use with frequency. I think understanding where every note on the fretboard is for a certain key is a crucial step in improving your improvisation. Once you can visualise the entire scale across the fretboard you can move your playing around to any location. I think that for many people, once they have this freedom to move around it can help out their melodic improvisation greatly.

As you said though, on their own they will do nothing in terms of creating music. I think of it as a tool--a "map" that can only help your improvisation in the long run. The same principle applies to 2NPS, 3NPS and 4NPS pentatonics, and 4NPS diatonics (I'm not sure how well 2NPS diatonics would work ), arpeggios, etc.


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## AngelVivaldi (Mar 16, 2010)

Origin said:


> He speaks troof, put something on your lap that you've never cranked out before and let the guitarist's playing show you something new



:Agreed: Pick a few guitarists who's playing/phrasing you admire and study them. Find out what it is about their playing that makes your dick hard and use some of those qualities to fuse with your own playing. That's really helped me tons. The trick is not to clone what they do but rather mold it to something that's unique!


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## 6o66er (Mar 16, 2010)

AngelVivaldi said:


> :Agreed: Pick a few guitarists who's playing/phrasing you admire and study them. Find out what it is about their playing that makes your dick hard and use some of those qualities to fuse with your own playing. That's really helped me tons. The trick is not to clone what they do but rather mold it to something that's unique!






Drewsif got me back into playing alot lately. Insomniac's Narrative is fucking immensely inspirational to me for some reason!


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## MJS (Mar 16, 2010)

If you're stuck in box shapes, maybe limit yourself to two strings & just play. Even just messing around, it will force you to move up and down the neck, slide, mix up the number of notes per string, etc... 

Even if you end up playing something that sounds familiar, you'll know you're playing it for the sound and not because of a finger shape in your head. 

Mix it up... 2 strings, 3, etc... even 1. Throw in some chords, sweeps... 

You can also reverse it and pick a pattern of notes first. Ex: A, B, C, D, E (mix it up w/number of notes, intervals, etc...). Then, play the notes you picked everywhere you can. Start on different strings with different fingers, number of notes per string, number of strings you cross, etc...

Or even practice some shapes, but ones that are different from what you're stuck in. The harmonic minor scale can come in handy for that, since it throws in a few new shapes. Example on B & E strings in A: 

-----------8-10-12----
-9-10-12--------------

------------12-13-16--
-12-13-15-------------

------------13-16-17--
-13-15-17-------------

------------16-17-19--
-15-17-18-------------

Etc...

Nothing fancy... sometimes I just do little crap like that while watching TV to try getting my fingers going in different directions.


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## youheardme (Mar 17, 2010)

MJS


> Even if you end up playing something that sounds familiar, you'll know you're playing it for the sound and not because of a finger shape in your head.



Yeah I think thats where I'm at... I end up just playing shapes instead of notes for the sound... Perhaps these weird fingerings will help.

I've tried using programs like fretboard warrior to learn where each note is on the fretboard. Then tried just playing like the major scale for C everywheres for example.

Also like max of metal mentioned... 


> Don't just try and learn something like a transcription robot, but really take in the material and try to understand why certain note choices were made. Maybe not in a theoretical sense, but in a melodic sense.



I think this could help too. I tend to just learn the notes in the song and not even think about why the artist chose them.


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## jymellis (Mar 17, 2010)

what helps me is just a metronome. try listening to some music you dont nowmally play and just sit down with a metronome and nothing else. i also like to add a little herbal relief in there but that is just me (how do you really think pink floyd made all those badass songs)


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## jymellis (Mar 17, 2010)

oi also like to play stuff backwards for shits and giggles. try playing all your notes,chords, shapes, backwards. or phrase them differently. or start the rhythym with what you usually consider the middle so that your rhythm keeps going. i dont know. just make shit up maing 

like this

e: 5 - 8
b: 5 - 8
g: 5 - 7
d: 5 - 7
a: 5 - 7
E: 5 - 8

to

e:8-5
b:8-5
g:7-5

and so on.

i have also been on a kick of backwards power chords (dont know what they are really called lol)

instead of

e: x
b: x
g: 5
d: 3
a: x
E: x

try

e: x
b: x
g: 3
d: 5
a: x
E: x


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## Fzau (Mar 17, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Then perhaps you should focus on playing stuff you're not accustomed to, such as some Fusion (Holdsworth, Gambale, Stern) or Country (Burton, Buchanan, Paisley).
> 
> Don't just try and learn something like a transcription robot, but really take in the material and try to understand why certain note choices were made. Maybe not in a theoretical sense, but in a melodic sense.


 
+1,000,000

I realized not so long ago that music theory is not like theory you find in science books or whatever (which to me is a very bad vision on music theory). It's all about your ears, just sitting down playing shapes you learned is not that helpful from a songwriting perspective.
You might know all of this already, you're playing a lot longer that I am, but maybe try to approach music differently? More focus on the feel that the notes and intervals reproduce and how you can exploit that even further (adding vibrato, etc.).

Sorry if I came across as a whiny bitch 

I tend to listen to music, 'analyse' the parts that I especially like and try to incorporate that touch in my own playing. Be it some new note combination or some new phrasing ideas (note lenght, vibrato, slides, etc.). 

Oh and I do recommend some fusion, just like Max did. Holdsworth is very unique and Guthrie Govan is just teh sex!


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## K-Roll (Mar 17, 2010)

ok i pretty much suck at playing if i take a look at the scale where I am currently and where my idols are but.. in order to move forward, i think you need to start thinking vertically as well... now what you do is that you see patterns of 3 notes per string and you are moving somehow diagonally lets say or rather 'moving up all across the octaves' without phrasing not knowing what you really play or why, just crawling up and down.. what a friend of mine who is at least 3 levels higher suggested - try taking a pause from diatonic scales and runs and start thinking in terms of chords.. find an A major chord anywhere on the neck (of course you will find different shapes and that's exactly it!) and just try playing with only the tones you usually hold when you play that chord, be more vertical, decompose the chord.. I do not really mean that you should be just arpeggiating but playing phrases consisting of notes that are persistent in the chord (sorry if i fucked up, am not a native speaker) you cannot move forward unless you know where your root notes are.. unless you can tell where one octave begins and where it ends, unless you know what tones are present in this and that chord allowing you to get a full view on the fretboard.. and the most important thing we keep ignoring is the harmony, you can't really go a step further unless you do not know what is being played in the background, what the basics are.. if you do not change your view, you'll be stuck with your shapes forever..

oh and as mentioned before.. take a look at other styles, open up to different music and approaches.. most of the metal players I admire (and not only metal) have a wide knowledge of classical music, jazz, fusion or can play different instruments apart from guitar.. or if you can sing, sing a phrase and then play it on the guitar.. practise your ear.. there are many ways but all include one thing -patience (and that is what i do not have and therefore i still suck a huge one)


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## Bloody_Inferno (Mar 17, 2010)

With all things said = , basically, to break out of the patterns rut, you must see these little scales and chords from a musical standpoint. 

JohnIce started this thread a while back:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...fferent-approach-to-scales-video-content.html

This may help you loose the notion of patterns and listen to scales with new fresh ears. 

Another thing, in addition to listening to other styles, listen to another instrument other than the guitar. Vocals, Pianos/Keyboards, Violins, Saxophones, Sitars, Shanai's, Shamisens, Tibetan wails etc. It's always good to add new musical influences to what will eventually become your true voice. 

After all that, revisit the role of the guitar in every sort of music. Say funk guitar, the role is small but very vital to the overall big picture. Same with guitar in big ensembles (Jazz, Swing etc). Even if the role is small, there's a lot of interesting things going on with just the guitar. Then we listen again to music done by a power trio and the guitar is so upfront and does a lot of things to fill the sound, but still just as interesting...

...which leads me to this. Listen to the big picture. All guitarists (myself included), at one stage will think only like guitarists, and listen to guitar and only be captivated by the guitar. That's cool, but we miss out on what happens everywhere else, which also play the role on making the guitar sound so good. With all that, we eventally start listening to music as a whole, not just guitar biased, but listening and appreciating music as a whole. 

Lastly, after all of that. Write as many songs as you can. With all the listening, you can't help be inspired to write your own.  And when writing, again think outside the guitar. Think what can the bass do to compliment the riff, what drum beat will suit the chorus best etc. That way, your appreciation to the whole picture is practiced in your own material. And not only that, it will affect your contribution to collective band jamming because whatever your parts are, they are a result of listening to the entire big picture. 

Long story short, keep an open mind and absorb everything you believe that will benifit you not only as a guitarist, but more importantly, as a musician.


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## InigoMontoya (Apr 1, 2010)

I disagree that patterns are necessarily a bad thing, I've found that mastery of patterns gave me a lot of creative freedom.
Perhaps something to try would be to sit down and try to figure out a bunch of songs by ear, as this will improve your listening ability and your general playing in numerous ways. 
Perhaps try learning some new chord voicings and maybe some arpeggio shapes, because this gives you a nice contrast to the scalar ideas that you've been talking about.

Something interesting you can try to 'spice up' patterns is to stretch the fingerings between adjacent scale shapes. For example, take these three E minor scale fragments:

e-15-14-12-----------|-17-15-14----------|-19-17-15------------|
b-----------15-13-12-|----------17-15-13-|------------19-17-15-|

They're currently fingered in seconds, but if you stretch the fingering out a little, taking a bit from each fragment, you get this:

e-19-15-12-----------|
b-----------19-15-12-|

The pattern on each string is now fingered in thirds, and the intervals between strings has changed, giving you an interesting melodic contour.

For example, compare this:

e-15-14-12----14-12-------12----------|
b-----------15-------15-13---15-13-12-|

To this:

e-19-15-12----15-12-------12----------|
b-----------19-------19-15---19-15-12-|

Not only does it have a cool melodic contour, it's a really good stretching exercise.

So there are things you can do to spice up scale shapes.

I'd probably also advise buying/downloading creative guitar 1+2 by Guthrie Govan, as there's some great stuff in those books.

Hope that helps.


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## synrgy (Apr 1, 2010)

This isn't really what you asked for, but just based on my own experience:

When I find myself in a rut, I take a break. I actually stopped playing for almost 4 years once. When I came back to it, it was SO refreshing; not only did I remember everything, but my entire approach was somehow different. I've rediscovered my passion for the instrument since then, and I do tons of stuff with it that I probably would have never thought of doing had I not taken a step back from it all for a while (Like, playing a 7 string, for instance).

Just food for thought.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Apr 2, 2010)

InigoMontoya said:


> I disagree that patterns are necessarily a bad thing, I've found that mastery of patterns gave me a lot of creative freedom.



I think the whole idea is just that: to master patterns and transcend them, but not be a slave to them. 

Scale patterns are important in the process of learning, but to have them as textbook patterns in our mindset can be limiting. However, once the patterns are masted and become natural, the player is no longer constrained to patterns but they become just another part of the musical vocabulary. 

Really, we're all just agreeing on the same thing with different perspectives.


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## BlackMetalVenom (Apr 16, 2010)

Ugh, I remember this happening to me for a period of months...
Practice technique man, learn songs every once-in-awhile, but focus on technique.
Look for Rusty Cooley, Shawn Lane, Holdsworth, Gilbert, etc. licks.
Practice licks as technical exercises; it's no use to do boring scalar ships, try learning technical stuff that you'll actually incorporate into your playing.
However much time you wish to devote to each exercise is up to you, just remember....
Start slowly and make sure by the time you have one or two minutes left you go BALLS OUT
crazy and play them at speeds that might sound very sloppy, but you can still play.
This'll get your mind thinking it can play them clean (when you practice slow) and play them faster and clean with time.
Hope this is of some use to you.


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## Dirtdog (Apr 18, 2010)

What I do is dedicate a day to threes and a day for fours meaning on one day I'll do all things related to threes than the next day do something dedicated to fours. Patterns included, but than I mix up my patterns. Also if you only play cromatically try to incorporate it into scale shapes and drop a one chord rhythm for backing and play thru the shapes. try a different patern evertime thru. It will sound more musical this way. Try with alt picking than all legato than maybe a little of both to mix it up.


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## MaksMed (Apr 18, 2010)

youheardme, same shit bro :'(


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## mickeymick (Jun 13, 2010)

i was having the same problem about a year ago, so one day i picked up my brothers bass and got into a bunch of other music like, primus, stanley clarke, victor wooten ect... when i got bored with that i took my acoustic and tuned it to DADGAD and fooled around with that, i bought my 7 string about a month ago and started to get back into metal, and now im out of that rut. all i can say is try to get into other genres of music and throw a little bit of the tricks youve learned from those other types of styles, and apply it to metal.


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## Faded Grey (Jun 21, 2010)

Maybe, you should just take a break from the guitar? It can help a good bit, man. Try doing another hobby. Eventually, you'll wanna get back to your axe, and it will be a lot more enjoyable.


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## youheardme (Aug 29, 2010)

Yeah, I'm gonna buy a mandolin i think.... that should spice things up a bit... while still keeping my fingers limber


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## Rashputin (Aug 29, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The focus on the "shapes" is what's pretty much leading you to a repetitive playing rut. Trust me, I've been where you are.
> 
> Other than learning theory, which would be very helpful, I suggest you look into playing a certain type of music, or choosing a very technical piece to work on. It's not as instantly rewarding as learning a new pattern, but it'll really open up your playing and help to dig you out of a rut.
> 
> ...


 
good answer.


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