# Getting a Grasp of Music Theory in Progressive Metal/Rock



## TosinAsLeader (Feb 11, 2013)

So I been trying to learn how to write progressive stuff. A lot of lessons I found says it uses two chords to do so (ex: Bm and G.) What is the theory to this? How Does a scale form off a chord or vice versa? 

Also I have been dying to figure out how to do pinch harmonics not accidentally, but how to do it properly?


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## The Reverend (Feb 11, 2013)

Bro, you have some work ahead of you. 

First, I think it's weird that there's a 'prog' formula now, but we won't get into that.

Second, how much theory do you already know?

Third, if you're still figuring out pinches, it'll be some time before you can rock the sort of typical prog techniques you're probably thinking of. There's some good tutorials on Youtube about doing pinch harmonics, and since you can see what the guys are doing, you'll instantly get what to do.


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## guitareben (Feb 11, 2013)

There isn't a prog forumula... 

Look, if you want to learn how to write prog, learn loads of prog songs, then learn songs in other genres (lots), THEN go and learn the theory and write music. (or just skip theory and write music) 

Learn the music, then learn the theory behind the music 

But don't worry with prog, there isn't much theory involved... just basic stuff, the rest of it is just guys using their ears to make stuff.


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## teamSKDM (Feb 11, 2013)

prog music, well. there is no way to write it, thats why its called progressive. in a way, the song makes progress ass the song goes on. some key elements in prog music is 1, it rarely has parts that repeat, 2 it has drastic mood changes. for example some modern prog bands incorporate heavy breakdowns, beautiful jazz parts, and shredding , heaviness, and atmosphere all in one song. thats the thing about prog, is its not one thing. theres no way to describe it, besides that its everything all put together.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 11, 2013)

@ everyone. I am surprised that I didn't get a notification when someone commented. Anyways, I know about octaves, where different notes are, and a little piano. I am sure I know more, but forget what it is lol.

I realized there is no "formula," but can anyone explain the building off a chord? I guess it is a great idea to learn progressive songs, like alot.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Feb 11, 2013)

im going to go ahead and direct you to this guy SchecterWhore hes our resident theory master, he can answer literally any question you have


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## ElRay (Feb 11, 2013)

TosinAsLeader said:


> @ everyone. I am surprised that I didn't get a notification when someone commented


Instant notification is not the default. Go to the "User CP" (Upper left corner) and adjust your settings.

Ray


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## Splinterhead (Feb 11, 2013)

Firstly hats off to you for being so ambitious. Progressive music has a whole lot of different meanings to different people but we ain't gonna open up that can 'o worms.

What I would do is what was mentioned before and start listening to other genres of music to get a full on perspective of the different ingredients that are in prog. Start to explore jazz, blues, classical and even bluegrass. 

My old school prog favorites are bands like Yes and Jethro Tull. Even Pink Floyd was considered "progressive" back in the old days. Listen for all the different styles that are present in these great songs! Steve Howe put a lot of country and bluegrass in his melodies. Jethro Tull had a lot of folk and celtic. Pink Floyd's keyboard player Rick Wright RIP was a big jazz guy. A lot of great chords and harmony on PF's Dark Side Of The Moon. Zeppelin while not considered progressive were pretty innovative. You check out the middle eastern/indian influences in songs like "Song Remains The Same", "Kashmir", "In The Light" etc.

Take your time and absorb all this cool stuff and if you are of the inquiring type figure out why it all works and use it to your advantage.


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## cGoEcYk (Feb 12, 2013)

Learn whatever you can. That's the easy part. The hard part is working with people and finding out how to communicate and ultimately execute on whatever craziness people are thinking up.

Fancy chords are cool but learn everything about nasty rhythms too. If it's in 4/4 I'm not interested.


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## Malkav (Feb 12, 2013)

This is as good a place as any to post this then I guess 

101 rules of Prog metal

1. Insist that your definition of prog metal is sacred and that the only progressive bands are the one you deem to be so. 
2. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 1 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan. 
3. Have contempt for mainstream music. 
4. Insist that most people listen not to the music, not to the lyrics but only the chorus and that is why prog metal is not mainstream. 
5. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 4 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan. 
6. When showcasing a new prog metal band to a non-musician friend, put on the most technically difficult song, and skip directly to the solo part. 
7. If your friend says that it is cool, tell him that he has grasped the grandeur of prog and shown that his intelligence is superior to that of the mainstream sheep. 
8. If he doesn´t, accuse him of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan. 
9. Renounce all contact with friend in rule 8. Racial purity isn´t all bad. 
10. Make sure your drummer has a double bass pedal. 
11. If he hasn´t, kick him out and get another one who has. Single pedal is NOT prog. 
12. Own every side-project a member of Dream Theater has been involved in. Listen to approximately none of them regularly. 
13. When a mainstream fool asks you what prog metal is, tell him something along the lines of "prog is the evolution of musical expression and experimentalism in rock." In any case, make sure that the person in question is left with no idea of what prog metal is. He wouldn´t have understood anyway. 
14. Insist that music should always progress, although as long as you write an album in the prog vein, you don't necessarily have to. 
15. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 14 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan. 
16. Refer to progressive metal as intelligent music for intelligent people, preferably at every occasion where a mainstream group or genre is mentioned. 
17. Note that the above does not qualify as arrogance any more than pointing out that wine is drink for the more sophisticated. 
18. A song under four minutes is NOT prog. If you are stuck with a song under four minutes, insert a phrygian solo trade-off between the guitarist and keyboardist as long as needed. 
19. If a mainstream fool tells you that shredders are mindless wankers, tell him that "at least they can tune their guitars, har har", and walk away defiantly. 
20. Spocks Beard is NOT prog. If anyone disagrees, kill them. 
21. Humming along with the melody to a prog metal song is forbidden. Burn all albums you own with hum-along melodies. 
22. Loathe all music you used to like before you got into prog. This is not optional. When asked why, tell people that "I am into GOOD music now, why would I go back?". 
23. Accuse any prog metal musician that cuts his hair of selling out. 
24. Often state that you don´t only listen to prog. Jazz is a good choice. 
25. Yeah...like you have more than 3 jazz CDs in your collection... 
26. Never accept ANY Berklee graduates. The drop-outs are so much better. 
27. Riffs in 4/4 are not progressive. If you happen to come up with a cool riff in 4/4, alternate between 4/4 and progressive time signatures like 7/8 every other measure to ensure the musical complexity synonymous with prog metal. 
28. Be able to mention 20 bands noone has heard of, not even true prog fans. Own no releases of these bands. 
29. Get an Ibanez. This is not negotiable. 
30. Spend 5 hours every day critiquing other musicians on forums. 
31. Spend 5 minutes every other day actually practicing your instrument. 
32. Yell at people who headbang at concerts: They're not prog enough to get the music, what do they expect? 
33. Sus4 is your friend. To ensure that your album is a true progressive release, include at least one part where the keyboard plays ascending sus4 chords over a single-note broken rhythm in 7/8. 
34. Make sure your bandname is either a 
a) Oxymoron 
-Silent Noise 
-Tender Harshness 
-Healing Gun 
Some geeky sounding name ripped from some obscure book. 
-Deitronus 
-Tarakoch 
-Fentaran 
or 
c) Random combination of at least 2 three-syllable words. 
-Eternal Twilight Tranquility (Can't get much progger than that) 
-Redolent Arithmetic 
-Evolution of Vernacular Domesticated 
35. Don't worry about if your band name makes any sense or not. Since 90% of your fanbase is from Brazil and Japan, you can safely ignore conventional English grammar and instead focus on what´s really important: The lyrics (see rule 36). 
36. Write deep and ambiguous lyrics. 
37. If unable to write deep and ambigous lyrics, include at least one of the following phrases to ensure recognition as lyrical genius in prog circles: 
"I'm staring towards ascension divine, caught in my own revelation, a nightly mystery of soulburning apparition" 
"Mornings' gentle caress, a ray of sunlight enveloping the spirit of the sleeper ventriloquist" 
"A timid, palatable genocide, turn towards the decline of mankind, the festering wound of ages past changes into the soul-spirit of vestigial sentences." 
38. Use a non-standard instrument like violin, saxophone or kazoo, regardless of how idiosyncratic it turns out to be. This constitutes being prog. 
39. Make sure your bass-player has as many strings as possible. Don't worry if he uses approximately three of the 11 strings on his custom Carvin 30 kg bass regularly, just give him a bass solo in the middle of your mandatory instrumental tune(more on that later)where he can really show the extent of his instruments capabilities. Imagine the range of scales on an instrument like that! 
40. Release a live-album called "Live in Tokyo". 
41. Change time signatures. Constantly. 
42. Accuse anyone who does not do so of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true progressive musician. 
43. Your amp MUST be a Mesa Boogie. If a friend of yours tries to convince you´re wrong and you should check out his Marshall tell him that his tone is thin and buzzy. 
44. State that Metallica can´t properly tweak the boogies. They´re so... unprog! 
45. Start a Dream Theater cover band with friends just starting out playing instruments. Spend half of the rehearsal talking shit about punk bands and how people don't understand your music. 
46. Play a shitty version of a humongously difficult DT song at a Battle of the Bands-type contest. Metropolis Part 1 or Dance of Eternity are both good choices, as is Erotomania. 
47. When your band ends up last, shift all blame over to the judges; hey, they have no idea what good music is! Why else would they let that boring pop band win? 
48. Talking about starting playing an instrument; always start with the most technically difficult song you know. Remember, this is a testament to your immense talent, so be sure to mention this on every internet community you happen to frequent. 
49. When are you able to play something at half speed very sloppy, proudly state that you "nail" the song in question. 
50. People are bound to ask for a recording of the feat mentioned in rule 49. However, you are not able to provide it to them, because a) your recording equipment got dissolved by digestive acid yesterday, you don't need to prove anything to people. Your word should be good enough c) you don't know anything about computers (even though you sit by one most of the day), as you spend most of your day practicing your instrument. 
51. Tool is NOT prog. If anyone insists they are, kill them. 
52. Hate Falling into Infinity. If the feeling that you actually enjoy FII(even the "proggier" songs like TOT)sneaks up on you during a glitch of concentration, remind yourself that DT sold out. 
53. Actually, state that DT sold out on every good occasion. This means every time their name is mentioned. 
54. Don´t be John Arch. Insist that any pre-Alder Fates is 100% not prog. 
55. Do not move on stage. Don't under any circumstances forget that nobody at prog concerts pays attention to the audience, including the band. 
56. The best songs are those that are over 15 minutes, have multiple named sections, and have solos by everyone in the band INCLUDING the drummer. 
57. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 56 of lacking musical inteli...Yeah, you've got it now, haven't you? 
58. Never ever under any circumstances say "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence ruled." 
59. Never let anyone tell you that Dave Weckl is better than any prog metal drummer. If they still insist, don't kill them, but rather put on the Mike Portnoy drum solo from 1993's "Live in Tokyo" vid, which still today is the benchmark for good drumming, REGARDLESS of genre. 
60. It would still be a good idea to have that gun ready, though. 
61. Drummers: Huge kits are MANDATORY!!!! If all you have is a 4-piece with 3 crappy cymbals, then you don´t belong on stage. A 5-piece single bass drum kit is the bare minimum and even that´s on the edges of bare bones. If you have a tiny kit BUY MORE DRUMS AND CYMBALS!!!!!!! 
62. No, 6 toms are not enough, MORE DRUMS AND CYMBALS!!!! 
63. Reform with old members and release an album intended to make up for years of bad reception from fans (see Yes) or claim your next album will be a return to past glory (see Queensryche). If it flops, be sure to blame a producer or record company. 
64. When someone asks you why prog metal isn't more popular if it is so darned good, tell them that it is because "it is over the mainstream peoples heads". 
65. Talent = Technical skill. Hail any band with lightning-speed solos for their immense talent. 
66. Publicly state that your band is non-religious, then make many religious and/or spiritual allusions in the lyrics. 
67. Stress your openmindedness. State that you like all forms of music, except lower forms of music like pop, rock 'n roll, blues, techno, trance, rap. 
68. Accuse fans of the aforementioned genres of not being openminded. 
69. Get a Kurzweil. As the undisputed <<>>, Jordan Rudess plays it, you have no choice but to get one yourself, no matter what synthezisers you actually like. ALL BOW TO THE MIGHTY 88-KEY <<>> KURZWEIL!!! 
70. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNO-KURZWEIL!!!!(Futuruma fans will know what I'm talking about) 
71. Show off with your equipment. Show off with your playing/singing. Show off with your *ahem* length. Show off with your girlfriend. Show off with anything you can think of. Show off with your DOG for god´s sake. 
72. Get a dog. 
73. Play air-drums or air-guitar at concerts. This will make sure that other prog fans recognize your immense talent. 
74. Stuck in song-writing? Insert a part with a slow single-note gallop rhythm where the singer yells "ENTER THE SUUUNNNNNNNN" several times. 
75. Note that you can substitute "ENTER THE SUUUNNNNNNNNN" for either of the following: "FATHER, MY ADOLESCENCY IS AGONNNNNYYYYYYY" or "THE APPARITION DIVIIIIIINNNNEEEE". All three are suitable choices. 
76. What do you mean, you haven't trigged your bassdrum? 
77. Remember, faster=more progressive. Slow songs cannot be progressive, best example would be Pink Floyd. 
78. If anyone says PF are prog, kindly refer them to rule 1 while you prepare to do a "Varg", so to say. 
79. During recording, make sure that you accuse the producer, the recording engineer and half of your band of not playing the song properly at least once. 
80. Make sure your album cover contains either a psychedelic computer-drawn image, a lavish painting with mythological figures, or is illustrated by Travis Smith. 
81. Write epics. 
82. In case you didn't know, epics must be about adolescency, concerning a legend, or a deep dystopian tale where a cheesy fictional city/world/pizza shop serves as a metaphor for this world. 
83. Have racks with loads of equipment. 
84. Have racks without equipment. Who is going to see them if you don't display them? 
85. No intro for your song? Insert a single-note broken rhythm accented on the snare, with shifting keyboard chords underneath. 
86. Refuse to lend prog CDs to mainstream friends. When asked why, tell him/her that (s)he "will understand when (s)he matures" 
87. When playing ANY gig, from the lowliest bar to the most gargantuan arena, be sure that no member of the audience will leave without having heard every lick you are able to play. 
88. Have at least 5 solo spots during a concert. 
89. In case you have forgotten while reading this, prog metal is intelligent music for intelligent people. 
90. No, Marillion is not prog. I kindly refer you to rule 20. 
91. BOOOM!!! 
92. Buy new albums from past prog-greats. 
93. When they turn out to be crap and nothing like the old albums, hit yourself in the head with a hammer until you like them. 
94. Hold that there is no bad prog, only DIFFERENT. 
95. Of course, that only applies to bands you like. See Rule 1. 
96. In case you wondered, Dream Theater is and will always be the benchmark for prog metal. The more something sounds like Images and Words, the more progressive it is. 
97. Proclaim Rule 96 to people with a straight face in all seriousness. This is not optional. 
98. Have side-projects. Make sure that all side-projects consist of pointless jamming over endless repetitions of clicheed riffs. 
99. Make sure that at least one of your side-projects feature Mike Portnoy on drums. 
100. If you cannot get Mike Portnoy, get someone who sounds like him. 
101. You mean you have been reading this when you could have been practicing along to Metropolis Part II or composing a sidelong epic? For shame!!!! 

Taken from: 101 rules of Prog metal - Metal Storm


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 12, 2013)

@ Everyone.

Thank you all again.. Especially the 101 progressive rules lol!


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## jimwratt (Feb 12, 2013)

TosinAsLeader said:


> @ everyone. I am surprised that I didn't get a notification when someone commented. Anyways, I know about octaves, where different notes are, and a little piano. I am sure I know more, but forget what it is lol.
> 
> I realized there is no "formula," but can anyone explain the building off a chord? I guess it is a great idea to learn progressive songs, like alot.



Please pardon if you already know this info, but I think it directly addresses your question.

The most basic form of a chord is the triad. It consists of the first (or tonic), third (or mediant), and fifth note or dominant) of a given scale. If we are discussing a C major scale, then a C major chord would have the notes C, E, G in some arrangement. When the First note of the chord is the lowest note in the voicing (C, E, G) we say the chord is in "root position" or "root inversion." When the second note is the lowest note in the chord, it is in "first inversion." When the fifth note is the lowest note in the chord, it is in "second inversion." The intervals of a root position major chord are a major third followed by a minor third (C to E is a major third, E to G is a minor third). When we do inversions that arrangement changes (E to G is a minor third, G to C is a perfect fourth) 

Be aware that inversions are decided by the root note. The other voices can be in any arrangement without affecting how we view the chord's inversion. It would of course chance the voicing, which is different than the inversion. 

In the same way that the notes of a scale point to a central pitch, so do the chords. As you should be aware, the note that has the strongest pull to the key center is the 7th note in the scale, or the leading tone. It pulls your ear up toward octave of the scale. The next most powerful note is the second degree (or supertonic), which pulls your ear down to the key center. The next most powerful note is the fifth scale degree (or dominant). 

If we are talking about the key of C major again, the chord that would embody all three of those notes without departing from the major sonority would be the G major chord. G (the fifth note or dominant), B (the 7th note or leading tone), and D (the second note or supertonic). We are just talking about major triads here in root position so the fifth chord has the strongest pull to the key center without upsetting the basic sonority or mood of the sound (no minor or diminished sounds).

The only other naturally occurring major chord in the key is the chord built from the fourth degree or subdominant. In the key of C major again, the notes would be F (the fourth or subdominant), A (the submediant), and C (the tonic). Those notes can pull either toward the tonic chord or the dominant chord depending on how you set it up. 

Among those three chords, you have all 7 notes of the major scale represented. The I-IV-V movement is the most basic chord progression in all Western music; from Bach to Psychedelic Blues, those chords are all there. Learn them in all 12 keys.

This is the most basic approach to chords. You'll have to forgive me if it;s a little dense, but it's like 5 chapters of a music theory text book stripped down to the essentials.


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## Arcane66 (Feb 12, 2013)

What books are good for trying to learn theory on your own?


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## jimwratt (Feb 12, 2013)

The next thing you want to do is write out all the sequential permutations of that major scale:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D
E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E
F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F 
G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A
B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B

And recall that the intervals that make up a major scale are a whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step whole step, half step. 

A minor scale has a whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step.

The major scale has a modal name (Ionian), the next scale is the dorian mode. 

It has most of the intervals of a minor scale but it's 6th scale degree is a whole step above it's fifth degree and a half step below its seventh degree. It is essentially a minor scale with a major sixth (sometimes called a raised 6th).

The next is the Phrygian. We see that it is mostly a minor scale with a half step between the first and second notes and a whole step between the second and third notes. This is also called a flat 9 sometimes (the 9th scale degree is the second scale degree an octave above the tonic or root note. In order to determine the upper register name of a note, just add 7 to it. Subtract 7 to determine the lower register name of an upper voice note). 

The next mode is the Lydian mode. It's a major scale with a raised 4th.

The next is the Mixolydian mode. It's a major scale with a lowered 7th.

The next is the Aeolian mode, which is also the natural minor scale

Last but not least is the Locrian mode. It is a "minor" scale with a flat 2 and a flat 5. Because of the flat 5 and the natural minor 7th, we refer to this sonority (in chord and scale) as "half-diminished."

The reason you should know those modes (aside from the fact that it will totally open the fretboard up to you) is that they can also tell you which notes to add to your basic chords. Many of the "complicated" chords you find in Jazz, Prog, and R&B feature additional notes derived from the modes. If you see F Maj. 7 +11, that can be thought of as a Lydian chord. That chord tells us immediately that we are in the key of C major. 

The next thing to be aware of are "altered" scales, like Harmonic and Melodic minor. A Harmonic scale is a minor scale with a raised 7th. It is referred to as "harmonic" because the early Baroque composers discovered that they could maintain the tension between the leading tone and the tonic by placing them a half step apart while otherwise sticking to the minor sonority (not upsetting the basic feel of a minor sound). The harmonic minor scale is your basic Yngwie Malmsteen sound. In the key of A minor (which is the relative minor of C major), the notes are A, B, C, D, E, F, G#.

The Melodic minor scale on the other hand is a minor scale with both a raised 6th and 7th in its ascending form (it is a plain natural minor scale in its descending form, but don't worry about that for now). In the key of A minor, the notes are A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#. Melodic minor is close to harmonic minor in its sound but has a little more of a "jazzier" sound to it. There are a lot of melodic possibilities that come with the major 6th interval. You can also think of it as a Dorian Harmonic Minor since both dorian and melodic minor are minor modes with major 6ths. 

Be advised that there are modes and chords to be derived from both scales. 

Looking at a song like "Song of Solomon"

We see that the first chord is C5 add 9. It's a C power chord with a 9th added. Off hand, we can't tell what key we are in, but C major is in the runnings. The second chord is E5 add 9. Because the 9 of E is F#, we know that we are not in the key of C because we have a note with an accidental (a sharp or flat). The next chord is G# minor*, then C5 add 9, and then E minor* followed by a C major 9 arpeggio.

There is a lot going on there. Because of the presence of the F# in the second chord and in later arpeggio sequences and because of the G# in the third chord, we can reasonably say that we are looking at a piece of music that makes use of both the A natural minor and the A melodic minor scales. Throughout the piece, there are some liberties taken with this (such as the D# in the G# minor chord) is just an example of how one might use some music theory to break down a prog song. 

Properly speaking, we might even think of the song as using the A Lydian flat 3 scale, but the rest of the song doesn't make as extensive a use of that sound. You could also think of the shift from the first chord to the second and third chords as a brief key change from C major to E major (that would of course imply a C#, which isn't really present in the piece up to this point). 

What's really most important is that there is a little motive and sequence going here with an idea development. A chord voicing is presented, then moved to a different key where a second chord is added, then that pattern is repeated in the original key followed by an arpeggio sequence. That's an antecedent-consequent relationship, which is also a key feature of western music (think Beethoven's 5th Symphony). When you move on to the solos, expect to see the A melodic, harmonic, and natural minor scales and arpeggios well represented as well as some other notes. 

Also worth pointing out is that when people talk about "modulating" to a different key, they usually mean that they are changing to a different key by changing the mode that they are playing, like moving from A minor to A major (as is the case in Tarrega's Recuerdos De Alhambra). 

What theory gives you is a way to have multiple understandings of a piece of music and a way to analyze what's happening in a piece as you're learning it. It's easy to forget some of the details of a song when you're going through the tabs because there's not much of a story behind the numbers on the strings. With theory, the connections between ideas are more apparent. You can use those connections to see the compositional patterns that different artists use.

From looking at a few different pieces, I can tell that Tosin Abasi likes to use add 9 and add 4 voicings a lot. We call those "suspended" voicing. Traditionally, they are a way of suspending the tension in a chord movement in order to allow for additional melodic or contrapuntal (a fancy word for chord tone) exploration. Tosin tends to use them for their innate sonic appeal though. They sound beautiful and are well applied with heavy distortion sounds. Bands as different as Incubus and The Who also use them as do many others. 

I hope that helps. It's kind of a lot to keep track of, but in the end its not that bad.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 12, 2013)

cGoEcYk said:


> If it's in 4/4 I'm not interested.


Not trying to sound douchy but I've never gotten this.

I'd rather someone wrote everything in 4/4 if that's how it sounds best than to force other time signatures.

For me prog has always been first and foremost about the progression through the songs/albums that the parts flow as is best for the song and the story it's telling with no regard to where these transitions lie or what genre each part would usually be in. Does that mean no prog song can have a chorus or a more pop-like song structure? For me, no, for others most definitely.

I usually write songs with few repeating parts but if a song is better with the whole verse/chorus/verse thing I'd rather keep it like that than sacrificing the song for prog cred.


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## jimwratt (Feb 12, 2013)

Arcane66 said:


> What books are good for trying to learn theory on your own?



Honestly, I would say that most books will tell you the same information. I got the best theory development from working through Jazz standards with my teacher. I never really took to playing Jazz, but I did gain a good understanding of it. Once you outline the most common chord movements (I-IV-V, ii-V-I, and I, vi, ii, V), you just need to train yourself to recognize those groupings of chords. We started with simple pieces and worked toward more advanced tunes. That also taught me a lot of chord voicings. TBH, in Jazz there are chord voicings that are as portable and useful/generic as your basic rock power chord. You just have to know what they are. That part of it is not AS complicated as a lot of people think. Other parts of Jazz are a lot more complicated than people think. 

I would say get a basic theory book that covers scales, chords, voice leading, and harmony basics (even something as simple as theory for dummies or something like that) and then take a look at some music in the Jazz Real Books and Fake Books. The good thing is that your ear already knows almost all of the music theory you will need for a good start in most Western music so you will basically be learning to name things you will recognize. You may not recognize them in an isolated form, but if you heard them in context, you'd go "oh yeah, _that_." There are also some good videos on youtube.

I would say that before you start trying to learn too much theory, that you should learn all of your major and minor scale patterns over two octaves. That's just 2 patterns that you will be moving from place to place on the neck as well as learning where all the notes on the fretboard are (if you don't already know). When you start dealing with more advanced theory ideas, it REALLY helps to be able to visualize them on your instrument. A lot of percussionists and horn players I knew would always get tripped up on learning chordal theory because playing multiple notes at a time (and notes in general for drummers) was totally abstract to them.

One exercise my teacher would do with me was to give me a note name and then tell me to play a given interval above or below it. Since the tuning system defines the distance between notes across strings, all intervals look the same (which the exception of the G and B strings, which have their own slightly different interval shapes). Also, when you are practicing your scales, practice saying your degree names with each note. Later as you know the fretboard, practice saying the note names. If you really want to get fancy with it, sing each note.


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## cGoEcYk (Feb 12, 2013)

Nykur_Myrkvi said:


> I'd rather someone wrote everything in 4/4 if that's how it sounds best than to force other time signatures... I'd rather keep it like that than sacrificing the song for prog cred.


I guess I just have a somewhat extreme opinion about it since probably like 98% of people/bands *never* produce recordings outside of 4/4, even in modern metal genres. I feel like the point of prog metal is to be fresh and explore the less explored areas.

If you have gone as far down the odd time road as I have (I've been playing almost exclusively in prog metal bands since 2000) you'll find that even the most jagged time sig can be made to feel very natural. It's people who don't know what they are doing that can make stuff feel forced. Sometimes I love a real jagged odd feel in metal though, to me it makes things heavier and more of an assault on the mind.

My point to the OP is- explore that stuff early so that when you use it, you'll use it with a more advanced familiarity. 

Anyway... my opinion. Resume thread!


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## Arcane66 (Feb 12, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> Honestly, I would say that most books will tell you the same information. I got the best theory development from working through Jazz standards with my teacher. I never really took to playing Jazz, but I did gain a good understanding of it. Once you outline the most common chord movements (I-IV-V, ii-V-I, and I, vi, ii, V), you just need to train yourself to recognize those groupings of chords. We started with simple pieces and worked toward more advanced tunes. That also taught me a lot of chord voicings. TBH, in Jazz there are chord voicings that are as portable and useful/generic as your basic rock power chord. You just have to know what they are. That part of it is not AS complicated as a lot of people think. Other parts of Jazz are a lot more complicated than people think.
> 
> I would say get a basic theory book that covers scales, chords, voice leading, and harmony basics (even something as simple as theory for dummies or something like that) and then take a look at some music in the Jazz Real Books and Fake Books. The good thing is that your ear already knows almost all of the music theory you will need for a good start in most Western music so you will basically be learning to name things you will recognize. You may not recognize them in an isolated form, but if you heard them in context, you'd go "oh yeah, _that_." There are also some good videos on youtube.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post. I might be interested in finding a local teacher who can help with learning some theory via jazz or whatever means necessary. I don't have all the notes on the fretboard memorized, but I can figure it out in a few seconds if I need to know a particular note. I do know the major and minor scales starting on the 6th string. I know the 7 modes in a few different keys. I hate learning things on a piece meal basis without any reinforcement. I might take a class on Foundations of Music or Music Theory sometime this summer.

P.s. I do use YouTube a lot for random lessons and techniques. Also, do you have any idea of how best to go about finding a good local guitar teacher/music instructor? My alma mater isn't very good option.


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## jimwratt (Feb 12, 2013)

Arcane66 said:


> P.s. I do use YouTube a lot for random lessons and techniques. Also, do you have any idea of how best to go about finding a good local guitar teacher/music instructor? My alma mater isn't very good option.



Not especially. I truly stumbled into it by sheer dumb luck. I actually broke my arm snowboarding (first and only time I've ever done that) so my guitar teacher shifted our lessons to theory since I couldn't really play. I eventually went on to take actual theory classes and wound up getting a degree in music. Those things surely have their place and I would say that any first year theory course (2 semesters) will get you where you want to be. Unless your teacher is an absolute jerk, you really can't go wrong. The real reinforcement comes from working those ideas into your playing though. That's what makes it stick.


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## texshred777 (Feb 12, 2013)

Nykur_Myrkvi said:


> Not trying to sound douchy but I've never gotten this.
> 
> I'd rather someone wrote everything in 4/4 if that's how it sounds best than to force other time signatures.
> 
> ...


 
Me either. I think people with this mindset would be surprised how often a phrase they think is in a different time sig is actually just syncopated. 

People get so goddamn caught up in being "progressive"..except they're just regurgitating the same shit every other prog band has already done a million times. Oh, you added a 9th to your power chord, and you're playing in 15/16..you're so progressive. 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the genre, nor am I saying anything against the OP for wanting to branch out into a more complicated form. I just think the elitism of prog musicians is laughable a lot of the time. 

OP

If you want to start learning how to write music that's in that genre, the best thing is to start learning a shit ton of songs from the genre. You'll learn about song structure and if you take the time to start learning theory you'll have a good basis. Take the time to learn your intervals and know those before you start trying to memorize scale patterns and chord shapes. Those intervals are what scales/chords are based off.

Really, just learn how to write a song. Period. Don't give yourself all these preconceived notions of what it should be. Come up with a melody and/or a harmony and go from there.

To be fair, forcing time sigs is one way to learn them and how to use them. If you don't force yourself to use something you're not familiar with you'll never learn how to use it. I understand what you're saying though.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 13, 2013)

texshred777 said:


> To be fair, forcing time sigs is one way to learn them and how to use them. If you don't force yourself to use something you're not familiar with you'll never learn how to use it. I understand what you're saying though.


I agree with this wholeheartedly but as a writing tool forcing anything will never be good in my book. But as a practicing tool? Vital.

Same with any technique. If you want to, for example be able to get a technique into your improvisation. I went down the rough road of experimentation with both sweeping and tapping for that, trying to figure out where it sounds natural.


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## Arcane66 (Feb 13, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> Not especially. I truly stumbled into it by sheer dumb luck. I actually broke my arm snowboarding (first and only time I've ever done that) so my guitar teacher shifted our lessons to theory since I couldn't really play. I eventually went on to take actual theory classes and wound up getting a degree in music. Those things surely have their place and I would say that any first year theory course (2 semesters) will get you where you want to be. Unless your teacher is an absolute jerk, you really can't go wrong. The real reinforcement comes from working those ideas into your playing though. That's what makes it stick.


Yeah, I wish I had gotten into guitar earlier so I could have taken advantage of the courses available to me. As I stated in the earlier post, I do plan on going back for some classes. I might even end up getting a degree in music if it is feasible and affordable. Thanks for the post.


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## texshred777 (Feb 13, 2013)

Nykur_Myrkvi said:


> I agree with this wholeheartedly but as a writing tool forcing anything will never be good in my book. But as a practicing tool? Vital.
> 
> Same with any technique. If you want to, for example be able to get a technique into your improvisation. I went down the rough road of experimentation with both sweeping and tapping for that, trying to figure out where it sounds natural.


 
Yeah, that's what I meant. But I feel that using actual song writing as a basis for learning application for theory concepts is the best way to really grasp it.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 14, 2013)

jimwratt said:


> The next thing you want to do is write out all the sequential permutations of that major scale:
> 
> C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
> D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D
> ...




I still just cant grasp the modes of a scale


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## tedtan (Feb 14, 2013)

^

The modes of a scale are the same notes of that scale, played in the same sequence as they appear in that scale, but starting and ending on a different note of the sequence. Another way to conceive of this is by numbering the notes sequentially in the scale like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 - parent scale (and first mode)
2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 - 2nd mode
3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 - 3rd mode
4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 - 4th mode
5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 - 5th mode
6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 - 6th mode
7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - 7th mode

If that first mode listed above were the major scale, then the modes would be:

Ionian (aka, the major scale)
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian (aka, the natural minor scale)
Locrian


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 14, 2013)

tedtan said:


> ^
> 
> The modes of a scale are the same notes of that scale, played in the same sequence as they appear in that scale, but starting and ending on a different note of the sequence. Another way to conceive of this is by numbering the notes sequentially in the scale like this:
> 
> ...


 
Ok now does it matter what note I play or is it a pattern? Do you play this like a chromatic scale or what? Is this only for the major scales? So far the major scale doesn't interest me. Its not Progressive enough....


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## tedtan (Feb 14, 2013)

The sequence of notes matters only in terms of how a scale or mode is constructed. Beyond that, you are free to use them however you want. Note that this approach applies to all scales - I just used the major scale as it is the best starting point for understanding this stuff (other sclaes/modes have sharp, flat, diminished or augmented intervals that make explaining it harder if you don't understand those terms).

Having said that, don't be so quick to dismiss a scale or mode. They are not progressive in and of themselves. Its what you as a composer, or even as a soloist, do with them that makes them progressive.


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## texshred777 (Feb 14, 2013)

Scales and modes will make a lot more sense once you start actually studying intervals. The intervals are what make the scales/modes/chords..

Memorizing patterns and shapes is worthless in my opinion. Learn your intervals and you'll know where you can go with a phrase without having to think about the scale shapes. You'll also be able to construct chords in any position much faster.

Pick up the "Guitar Fretboard Workbook"-MI Press. It will help you navigate the fretboard much better. It'll also start covering things like chord construction and modes. It's not a theory book really, but I found it to be helpful.

In any case, whatever route you take to start learning theory, always have a guitar or piano/keyboard around so you can learn to apply the information. Working on your ear is also important. Memorization without application is a worthless.

www.musictheory.net


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## Solodini (Feb 15, 2013)

OP, what do you class as progressive, out of curiosity? As said above, it's not the note or how long it lasts which makes something progressive but how you use it, how you combine them. All notes are just vibrations. All vibrations are created equal (!) but how they combine and work with or against each other makes the difference. Most unusual scales can be described as being major or minor with a variation so don't be too quick to discount things. Learn it and try to make use of it in as many ways as possible neven if it seems useless now, you may very well encounter a situation in future which really benefits from what you previously thought wasn't "progressive enough".


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## Hallic (Feb 15, 2013)

here a tip: stop thinking in fret numbers/tablature style, and start thinking in interval/diatonic scale notation.

example: E F G# (key = E)
tab: 0-1-3 on low E string
diatonic scale notation: 1-b2-3 (and nom go go find them anywhere on the neck in any octave


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## jimwratt (Feb 15, 2013)

I took me a while to understand modes, but when I did, it clicked into something simple. If you're playing in the key of C major, then any of the modes of C major will still sound like C major because they all have the same notes. All your doing is defining a different starting and ending point. The Dorian mode is like the major scale but starting and finishing on the second degree instead of the first.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 15, 2013)

Hallic said:


> here a tip: stop thinking in fret numbers/tablature style, and start thinking in interval/diatonic scale notation.
> 
> example: E F G# (key = E)
> tab: 0-1-3 on low E string
> diatonic scale notation: 1-b2-3 (and nom go go find them anywhere on the neck in any octave



Your right! I am being a closed-minded tab person ahhh! hOWEVER, What is "b2"?


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 15, 2013)

texshred777 said:


> Scales and modes will make a lot more sense once you start actually studying intervals. The intervals are what make the scales/modes/chords..
> 
> Memorizing patterns and shapes is worthless in my opinion. Learn your intervals and you'll know where you can go with a phrase without having to think about the scale shapes. You'll also be able to construct chords in any position much faster.
> 
> ...



Ok this sounds like something that will help out more. I have only heard of intervals, but never learned them.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 15, 2013)

> OP, what do you class as progressive, out of curiosity?



I am not exactly sure what you are talking about. Band wise or scale wise? I would say bands like Dream Theater or Born of Osiris are progressive.



> As said above, it's not the note or how long it lasts which makes something progressive but how you use it, how you combine them. All notes are just vibrations. All vibrations are created equal (!) but how they combine and work with or against each other makes the difference. Most unusual scales can be described as being major or minor with a variation so don't be too quick to discount things. Learn it and try to make use of it in as many ways as possible neven if it seems useless now, you may very well encounter a situation in future which really benefits from what you previously thought wasn't "progressive enough".



Ok will do.


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## Chuck (Feb 15, 2013)

Learning theory = making killer music, getting money, girls, free stuff AKA PROFIT


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## groovemasta (Feb 16, 2013)

No offence but you might want to start writing simpler things before you get into non-diatonic harmony and things you deem 'progressive'.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 16, 2013)

groovemasta said:


> No offence but you might want to start writing simpler things before you get into non-diatonic harmony and things you deem 'progressive'.



Like what? Of course my writing will be simple, at first aleast.


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## Solodini (Feb 16, 2013)

What do you think is progressive about those bands that you think are?


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 16, 2013)

Solodini said:


> What do you think is progressive about those bands that you think are?



Thread killer? Mmk


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## groovemasta (Feb 16, 2013)

Like diatonic harmony mostly aha.

I'm not sure how that is a 'thread killer' I think he was probably asking so he could explain the concepts they're applying. Of course I don't know for sure though.....


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## tedtan (Feb 17, 2013)

Solodini's not trying to kill the thread - he's trying to help you zero in on what you like so we can have a discussion more specific to your interests.


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## texshred777 (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm quite sure he was asking you for the purposes proposed by the two answers preceding this one, not attempting to be an ass.


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## Solodini (Feb 17, 2013)

I was asking so that we could better understand what you view as progressive, as I don't personally find either of those bands to be particularly progressive; especially Dream Theater. Much of what they release, especially after however many albums, I feel like I've heard before. Much of their develoent is playing a motif in the style of Rush, Yes, Metallica, honkytonk music et c. I don't find that to be progressive. Many of their melodies sound very similar to each other and to other "soaring melody" artists. Their forms seem quite predictable to me, much of what they do is rhythmically similar. Is it the non-4/4 time signature every few songs which you find progressive? A lot of that sounds very truncated/extended/shoehorned into such time signatures and there have been plenty of similar uses previously, so I wouldn't class that as progressive. Long solos aren't necessarily progressive; Clapton's been playing long soli for donkeys years. 

If I'm to focus on genre descriptions then I'd called them Prog Metal as they share traits with what was the Prog rock movement and with metal but I feel Prog, as a term has become separated from being progressive. In spite of all of this, though, I no longer find someone being "progressive" to be that important. I would rather they write a good song which is interesting but that doesn't need to rely on asymmetric rhythms and ear-bending harmony as a large amount of soul and classic R&B music is interesting to me, with concise melodies (nothing new), voice led harmonies (again not new), stabs of horns to accent important parts of other lines (nothing new). At the same time, soul requires great musicianship to do it justice, so it's far from amateur music.

Now that I've qualified my question further; what do YOU personally find to be progressive about those bands, so we can understand your tastes and lead you in the right direction?


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## All_¥our_Bass (Feb 17, 2013)

Progressive has more to do with different meters, extended chords and unusual song structure than scales.

Though many progressive bands like to use weird scales because they want something different.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 18, 2013)

Solodini said:


> I was asking so that we could better understand what you view as progressive, as I don't personally find either of those bands to be particularly progressive; especially Dream Theater. Much of what they release, especially after however many albums, I feel like I've heard before. Much of their develoent is playing a motif in the style of Rush, Yes, Metallica, honkytonk music et c. I don't find that to be progressive. Many of their melodies sound very similar to each other and to other "soaring melody" artists. Their forms seem quite predictable to me, much of what they do is rhythmically similar. Is it the non-4/4 time signature every few songs which you find progressive? A lot of that sounds very truncated/extended/shoehorned into such time signatures and there have been plenty of similar uses previously, so I wouldn't class that as progressive. Long solos aren't necessarily progressive; Clapton's been playing long soli for donkeys years.
> 
> If I'm to focus on genre descriptions then I'd called them Prog Metal as they share traits with what was the Prog rock movement and with metal but I feel Prog, as a term has become separated from being progressive. In spite of all of this, though, I no longer find someone being "progressive" to be that important. I would rather they write a good song which is interesting but that doesn't need to rely on asymmetric rhythms and ear-bending harmony as a large amount of soul and classic R&B music is interesting to me, with concise melodies (nothing new), voice led harmonies (again not new), stabs of horns to accent important parts of other lines (nothing new). At the same time, soul requires great musicianship to do it justice, so it's far from amateur music.
> 
> Now that I've qualified my question further; what do YOU personally find to be progressive about those bands, so we can understand your tastes and lead you in the right direction?



All apologies,

Well it may be best if I can list my taste, rather than what I think is progressive. 

Periphery, Animals As Leaders, BTBAM (bascially the Selkies:Endless Obsession song {its obviously an endless obession],) The Contortionist, Tool (I know, more of a Prog rock, but isnt that the same thing as Progressive rock?), Born of Osiris, Skith, Queesryche, Vildhjarta, Devin Townshed, Necrophagist, and Gojira and Meshuaggah (Yes I know, both of these bands are more Djenty, especially the Father of Djent Meshuaggah.


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## groovemasta (Feb 18, 2013)

ehh...


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## abandonist (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm usually thought of as the town dickhead around here, but I'm being serious.

How new are you to guitar? It seems from your verbiage and tone that you don't know much about playing. If that's the case, you really should start somewhere a bit less ambitious than the bands you listed. 

Sad that I have to do this, but again: Not Being A Dick, guys.


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## The Reverend (Feb 23, 2013)

abandonist said:


> I'm usually thought of as the town dickhead around here, but I'm being serious.
> 
> How new are you to guitar? It seems from your verbiage and tone that you don't know much about playing. If that's the case, you really should start somewhere a bit less ambitious than the bands you listed.
> 
> Sad that I have to do this, but again: Not Being A Dick, guys.



Normally your opinions repel me, but surprisingly enough I agree with you here.

There's no point in learning things you don't understand, both from a technique perspective and one based on theory. In fact, you wouldn't be learning much at all, because learning implies understanding. Build a solid foundation first, man. You'll thank yourself in years when everyone else around you is stalled and you're still able to progress.


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 25, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> Normally your opinions repel me, but surprisingly enough I agree with you here.
> 
> There's no point in learning things you don't understand, both from a technique perspective and one based on theory. In fact, you wouldn't be learning much at all, because learning implies understanding. Build a solid foundation first, man. You'll thank yourself in years when everyone else around you is stalled and you're still able to progress.



Well then what should I learn/work on first? I am just curious...


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 25, 2013)

abandonist said:


> I'm usually thought of as the town dickhead around here, but I'm being serious.
> 
> How new are you to guitar? It seems from your verbiage and tone that you don't know much about playing. If that's the case, you really should start somewhere a bit less ambitious than the bands you listed.
> 
> Sad that I have to do this, but again: Not Being A Dick, guys.




Can you explain yourself a little bit? By how new you mean by how long I have been playing? About 2 years or so. Is there something wrong in learning something hard?

Btw, I assume I have been promoted to the town dickhead also. I have only been on here for like a month


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## Solodini (Feb 25, 2013)

To butt in, in response to your first question, try just working on writing music which works, whether it's progressive or not. Try to make the major scale work for you as it share many qualities with other tonalities, many of which are nestled within it. You seemed to be new to the major modes as mentioned earlier in the thread but they're pretty fundamental, at least in construction before you reach various applications, so if you struggle with them, you won't manage well yet with more advanced stuff. 

Learn from the ground up, inside and out. Music theory isn't progressive, the applications are. Learn some more about applications of simple principles and do as much as you can with them. Combining 2 major scales can sound pretty weird, so you don't need to rely just on singular uncommon scales.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 25, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> There's no point in learning things you don't understand, both from a technique perspective and one based on theory. In fact, you wouldn't be learning much at all, because learning implies understanding.



I don't think this is the case at all. Exposing yourself to unfamiliar material and making a real effort to decipher it is a great way to learn. That said, it is different for everyone. One piece of music might open up possibilities for one person, and do absolutely nothing for the next. Like a lot of things, it's subjective.



> Build a solid foundation first, man. You'll thank yourself in years when everyone else around you is stalled and you're still able to progress.


Amen. Start with harmonizing a major scale and build up. No sense getting into phrygomixolocrian soufflé over a bed of lentils if you don't know what a dominant seventh chord is.



Solodini said:


> You seemed to be new to the major modes as mentioned earlier in the thread but they're pretty fundamental, at least in construction before you reach various applications, so if you struggle with them, you won't manage well yet with more advanced stuff.



I tend to disregard modes, for the large part. It's a personal choice, but the vast majority of the music one encoutners is likely to be either major or minor, perhaps with a little modal flavoring every now and then. I'll say it this way: for anybody preaching learning modes and all these other scales, you should have a list prepared at any given time with five solid and unambiguous examples of those scales being used in actual music. Otherwise, you end up overstating their importance without any substantiation.


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## jimwratt (Feb 25, 2013)

SchecterWhore said:


> It's a *personal* choice, but the vast majority of the music one encoutners is likely to be either major or minor, perhaps with a little modal flavoring every now and then.



OP, you don't HAVE to learn anything it in theoretical terms. Start with your basic major and minor scales, and if you're game, then move on to modes. The point is to open the fretboard up to you. If you get to the point where you know where all the notes on the fretboard are and what notes belong in a certain key, then you already know your modes, but not by name. The only thing left to do is to memorize a sequence of seven words and what version of the scale the go with. Think for yourself.


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## Rosal76 (Feb 27, 2013)

Tosinasleader, based on your screen name, I'm going to assume your're a huge fan of Tosin Abasi from Animals as leaders. If you are a fan and wanting to get into progressive music, theory wise, then you may want to look into this if you didn't already know about it. Tosin has his own column in Guitar World magazine called Prog-gnosis. In the column, Tosin gives readers examples of some his music/style/techniques. Because it is a instructional column, Tosis also explains what he is playing, theory wise. Again, if you are a fan of his music and want to get into progressive music, you should check out his articles. You do not have to buy the magazine to check out the articles because the kind people at Guitar world magazine make Youtube clips of his articles for everyone to see. I have learned some of his examples and they are fun to play. His examples range anywhere from exotic sounding, crazy, technical, to straight up difficult. In the latest issue, Tosin shows us a chord that he plays that uses all 8-strings. First time I've seen that before. His article started in the September 2012 issue of Guitar world and is still being run in the current issue which is April 2013. Anyways, you should check the articles/Youtube clips out if you didn't already have. 

Here is how his article appears in the magazine.

Guitar News

Tosin's Guitar world Youtube channel. There are more lessons than this. I don't understand why they aren't all in there.

GUITAR WORLD - YouTube


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## TosinAsLeader (Feb 28, 2013)

Rosal76 said:


> Tosinasleader, based on your screen name, I'm going to assume your're a huge fan of Tosin Abasi from Animals as leaders. If you are a fan and wanting to get into progressive music, theory wise, then you may want to look into this if you didn't already know about it. Tosin has his own column in Guitar World magazine called Prog-gnosis. In the column, Tosin gives readers examples of some his music/style/techniques. Because it is a instructional column, Tosis also explains what he is playing, theory wise. Again, if you are a fan of his music and want to get into progressive music, you should check out his articles. You do not have to buy the magazine to check out the articles because the kind people at Guitar world magazine make Youtube clips of his articles for everyone to see. I have learned some of his examples and they are fun to play. His examples range anywhere from exotic sounding, crazy, technical, to straight up difficult. In the latest issue, Tosin shows us a chord that he plays that uses all 8-strings. First time I've seen that before. His article started in the September 2012 issue of Guitar world and is still being run in the current issue which is April 2013. Anyways, you should check the articles/Youtube clips out if you didn't already have.
> 
> Here is how his article appears in the magazine.
> 
> ...



yes I am XD

Thank you for the links. I will check them out.


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