# Rusty Cooley moves to Dean



## jtm45 (Jul 2, 2006)

Wasn't expecting that one!
Check it out here;
http://www.rustycooley.com/home.html

It'll be very interesting to see what they come up with as an RC sig. model.
Surely it'll have to be something completely different from Dean's normal stuff.They aren't really well known for they're 7's.
I can only think of one or two 7's that they've ever made.


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

wtf mate? Rusty... rusty... wtf are you doing!?


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## jtm45 (Jul 2, 2006)

I wonder if Ibanez will ask for that stunning gloss-black CS Ibanez8-string they just made for him back,lol ?


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## Mr. S (Jul 2, 2006)

damn... destroys any chance of a rusty cooley ibanez sig....  well not that there was going to be one, anyhoo... strikes me as a strange move this


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## NDG (Jul 2, 2006)

A big "hell yes" to this 

I love the Dean US Hardtails and Zs.

Plus I have a soft spot for Dean seeing as my first 7 was an Avalanche.


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## Scott (Jul 2, 2006)

Wow. Im not a Rusty fan at all, but I didn't see this comming.


Next he'll probably cut his hair!

This remind anyone else of the whole Petrucci fiasco?


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## jtm45 (Jul 2, 2006)

Yeah!
I just really don't think that Rusty thought "oh! Dean will make me better guitars than Ibanez. I'll go with them!"

I think it's more likely to be a financial or personal (where's my signature model!) issue, but then that's just wild specualtion.


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

Scott said:


> Next he'll probably cut his hair!


SHUT UP! NO. He has gorgeous hair.


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## Makelele (Jul 2, 2006)

Scott said:


> Wow. Im not a Rusty fan at all, but I didn't see this comming.
> 
> 
> Next he'll probably cut his hair!
> ...



Petrucci fiasco?


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## Pauly (Jul 2, 2006)

Makelele said:


> Petrucci fiasco?



When John had a haircut and went from Ibanez to ErnieBall/Musicman guitars.

Btw Nile shred on Deans, look forward to seeing what Rusty does with one.


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## Elysian (Jul 2, 2006)

> This guitar will be the Lamborghini of 7 string guitars built for speed and performance! The thinnest neck, biggest frets, the best cut a way depth and width and a smooth neck joint for the best access to the highest frets.



hm thats what i was going for with the SS7 lol


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## zimbloth (Jul 2, 2006)

The last 6-string I owned was a *gorgeous* Dean USA Hardtail model. It played like a dream and was EXTREMELY well made. I'm sure whatever they make for Rusty will be awesome.  This will probably cost an arm and a leg, but any new entries to the production model 7-string world is always a good thing


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 2, 2006)

Deans kick ass and they really seem to be trying to pick up endorsers like with Trivium.


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## Jim Soloway (Jul 2, 2006)

pauly-bobs said:


> When John had a haircut and went from Ibanez to ErnieBall/Musicman guitars.
> 
> Btw Nile shred on Deans, look forward to seeing what Rusty does with one.



His Ernie Ball sig model is great guitar. I certainly wouldn't consider that a fiasco.


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## Hawksmoor (Jul 2, 2006)

Yeah, they're really profiling themselves as a brand that takes care of their endorsees. Fine by me really. To each his own, and I look forward to see the model.


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## Scott (Jul 2, 2006)

Jim Soloway said:


> His Ernie Ball sig model is great guitar. I certainly wouldn't consider that a fiasco.




Of course not. I'm just referring to the fact that he left Ibanez and went to EBMM, just as Rusty is doing with Dean. And no one really knows why for each case.


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## Ken (Jul 2, 2006)

Rusty's a great player, but he's either a primadonna or a whore. Seems he's teased a few companies into giving him great axes, only to leave a short time later. 

It's ironic, really. Companies want endorsees so their fan base will buy the guitars. Since Rusty moves around SO much, his fans aren't going to be able to keep up with him, gear-wise.

He needs to make up his mind and establish a serious RELATIONSHIP with a company, rather than these one-night stands.


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## Jim Soloway (Jul 2, 2006)

Scott said:


> Of course not. I'm just referring to the fact that he left Ibanez and went to EBMM, just as Rusty is doing with Dean. And no one really knows why for each case.



I would guess that in both cases the reason is the same: because they were offered a much better deal and a lot more input on the design. Ibanez is very committed to their top four or five endorsers (Vai, Satriani, Metheny and Benson), but below that, they've never struck me as an especially great company to be signed to. MM/EB have designed a killer guitar around JP and it looks like Dean is going to do the same for Cooley. I doubt if Ibanez would have done that for either of them.


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## Scott (Jul 2, 2006)

Jim Soloway said:


> I would guess that in both cases the reason is the same: because they were offered a much better deal and a lot more input on the design. Ibanez is very committed to their top four or five endorsers (Vai, Satriani, Metheny and Benson), but below that, they've never struck me as an especially great company to be signed to. MM/EB have designed a killer guitar around JP and it looks like Dean is going to do the same for Cooley. I doubt if Ibanez would have done that for either of them.



Agreed. Shame really.


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## Hawksmoor (Jul 2, 2006)

Let's just wait and see the model. It might turn out to be killer


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## Jason (Jul 2, 2006)

I don't see why people are dissing deans?? sure they don't have many cool 7 strings but some of there sixes are gorgeous looking.


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## Dylan7620 (Jul 2, 2006)

David said:


> SHUT UP! NO. He has gorgeous hair.


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

I personally hate dean guitars... because they're like Gibson... in feel, not in sound. Their sound blows Gibson's away anyday.

Their "shred worthy" guitars, such as the ones that MAB plays, I've never seen or had the chance to play one. Are they even production models? If Rusty gets a sig guitar... and it is shred worthy, then I'll be happy with his switch to Dean.


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## zak (Jul 2, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> Rusty's a great player, but he's either a primadonna or a whore. Seems he's teased a few companies into giving him great axes, only to leave a short time later.
> 
> It's ironic, really. Companies want endorsees so their fan base will buy the guitars. Since Rusty moves around SO much, his fans aren't going to be able to keep up with him, gear-wise.
> 
> He needs to make up his mind and establish a serious RELATIONSHIP with a company, rather than these one-night stands.



Switching around?
He switched from Jackson to Ibanez because Jackson was bought out and they started treating people really badly (same reason why Dave Mustaine left), and his name was starting to get out there so Ibanez approached him.
I'm guessing he's switching to Dean because they seem to be better with ideas. If you noticed from a thread a while ago, Rusty asked for an 8 before Dino or anyone else and it wasn't until he found out they were making them for the others that they said yes to him. Also if you read a recent interview from him before he recieved the 8, it seems that he's had a large amount of ideas towards making a signature 7. Ibanez just probably didn't care to listen. Dean does.
I also believe that one of the reasons Petrucci left was because he presented them (Ibanez) with various ideas towards a signature 7 that were turned down, Erine Ball listened.


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## noodles (Jul 2, 2006)

Scott said:


> Of course not. I'm just referring to the fact that he left Ibanez and went to EBMM, just as Rusty is doing with Dean. And no one really knows why for each case.



Probably because Ibanez wasn't giving either of them exactly what they wanted. Ibanez isn't exactly know for having a custom shop that will build anything you want.

Having played several USA Dean Hardtails, I can attest to the fact that they're amazing guitars. Classic Axe in Manassas, VA has a pair of them, and they smoke every single PRS he has in the store (at least twenty).

Dean will most certainly offer this as a range, with the expensive USA model, and a couple of imports ranging from $600-1000. I personally welcome more production sevens to the market.


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## Jim Soloway (Jul 2, 2006)

.jason. said:


> I don't see why people are dissing deans?? sure they don't have many cool 7 strings but some of there sixes are gorgeous looking.



I thought the Evo-7 was pretty nice, especially for the price. With the 25.5" scale length, it was certainly a lot nicer than the Epiphone LP.


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## Metal Ken (Jul 2, 2006)

The reason why _I_ didnt like dean before, is when they had the Michael Batio clinic at our store where i worked - the guy that runs dean (Not Dean Zilinski.. i think its someone like.. shit..i cant remember his name..I think its Dan Gellispie or something like that) was there too. and he was talking to us sales guys about dean sales and stuff. and he asked me what kind of guitars i played.. i told him ibanez.. and he said 'well, we'll have to change that.' so i told him the only way i'd buy a dean is if they made a 7 string.. he responds with "People still play those?"


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 2, 2006)

While this is something of a suprise given that it's come so suddenly, I don't know why some people sound so indignant about it here. If Ibanez weren't giving him the support he required, then he should move to a different company. It's not like this is the first time Ibanez have done things like this, and Rusty sounds like he has very specific tastes in guitars, although he strikes me as neither a prima donna, nor a whore.
Besides, I've owned a Dean guitar for about 5 years now, and it smokes...


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## bostjan (Jul 2, 2006)

Good for Rusty, good for Dean, hope it'll be good for us, too. I'm pulling for Dean to make the first production eight now, why the hell not? My AV7 was a hell of a guitar for $100. Better workmanship than my RG7321, for sure.

If Dean makes a Rusty Cooley shred-style seven with EMG's, and the price is reasonable, I'll become a gear whore once again to try one.


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## Jason (Jul 2, 2006)

David said:


> I personally hate dean guitars... because they're like Gibson... in feel, not in sound. Their sound blows Gibson's away anyday.
> 
> Their "shred worthy" guitars, such as the ones that MAB plays, I've never seen or had the chance to play one. Are they even production models? If Rusty gets a sig guitar... and it is shred worthy, then I'll be happy with his switch to Dean.



 How can you in the same statmemt say i hate Deans when you haven't played there shred guitars when your a "shred" player 



Jim Soloway said:


> I thought the Evo-7 was pretty nice, especially for the price. With the 25.5" scale length, it was certainly a lot nicer than the Epiphone LP.



i figured someone would say that, thinking it would be Darren


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

.jason. said:


> How can you in the same statmemt say i hate Deans when you haven't played there shred guitars when your a "shred" player



They barely have any shred-worthy guitars. Last time I checked their website, there weren't any on there... the only deans I've seen that ARE shred-style guitars, are the ones batio uses. I've never seen one of those for sale. Are they even production models?


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## Chris (Jul 2, 2006)

Jim Soloway said:


> I thought the Evo-7 was pretty nice, especially for the price. With the 25.5" scale length, it was certainly a lot nicer than the Epiphone LP.



I'm with you on this as well. The Evo is a very nice guitar, and with minimal mods, absolutely GAS-worthy (just take a look at Darren's).

99% of Deans have that over-the-top styling that I just don't care for. Maybe I'm just old, but I'll take a classy looking natural finish over something that looks like it belongs on stage with Gwar any day.


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## XEN (Jul 2, 2006)

All of the Deans I've played I've liked in feel and in tone. This could be a very good thing. Of course, the US made signature model will retail around $3k-$4k, so oh well for the rest of us working class people...


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## blindvomit (Jul 2, 2006)

Aww man that's a damn shame, not knocking Dean guitars but did you guys see his blue custom 7 String RG? Imagine a Cherry Red or a Black Cherry version of that...fucking...wow....


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## Chris (Jul 2, 2006)

blindvomit said:


> Aww man that's a damn shame, not knocking Dean guitars but did you guys see his blue custom 7 String RG? Imagine a Cherry Red or a Black Cherry version of that...fucking...wow....



Add it to the big list of custom shop stuff that we'll never see. Look at Buz McGrath's RG. That thing is outstanding.


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## blindvomit (Jul 2, 2006)

Chris said:


> Add it to the big list of custom shop stuff that we'll never see. Look at Buz McGrath's RG. That thing is outstanding.



But...but....god damn, I mean just look at it! How hard is it to keep your penis in your pants when you see it?!?!


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## Jason (Jul 2, 2006)

pretty easy


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## blindvomit (Jul 2, 2006)

.jason. said:


> pretty easy



No taste!


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## Zepher (Jul 2, 2006)

> They barely have any shred-worthy guitars.


I very much dissagree with that, my dean is totally shred worthy, has a great sound, and feels nothing like a gibson... but you really have to try one for yourself. Anyway i think that this will be great to expand deans 7 string line.


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## Michael (Jul 2, 2006)

Say whaii!?!? No more Ibanez? :'(


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

blindvomit said:


> But...but....god damn, I mean just look at it! How hard is it to keep your penis in your pants when you see it?!?!


well, rusty is a sexy man.


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## Elysian (Jul 2, 2006)

Chris said:


> I'm with you on this as well. The Evo is a very nice guitar, and with minimal mods, absolutely GAS-worthy (just take a look at Darren's).
> 
> 99% of Deans have that over-the-top styling that I just don't care for. Maybe I'm just old, but I'll take a classy looking natural finish over something that looks like it belongs on stage with Gwar any day.


i hate the razorback, it looks so retarded, and uncomfortable as hell. looks like itd impale your ribs when you play it...


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## David (Jul 2, 2006)

Elysian said:


> i hate the razorback, it looks so retarded, and uncomfortable as hell. looks like itd impale your ribs when you play it...


that's what I think about all V's, or most non-comfort curve guitars. 


I'm picky...


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## bostjan (Jul 2, 2006)

Elysian said:


> i hate the razorback, it looks so retarded, and uncomfortable as hell. looks like itd impale your ribs when you play it...



Plus the headstock is not nearly big enough!


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## Elysian (Jul 2, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Plus the headstock is not nearly big enough!






David said:


> that's what I think about all V's, or most non-comfort curve guitars.
> 
> 
> I'm picky...


i deem thee false.


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## Scott (Jul 2, 2006)

I actually love the hell out of those dimebag razors


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## nyck (Jul 2, 2006)

Crazy move by Rusty...

Can't wait to see what comes out. As long as more 7 string models are being made I'm happy


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## 7slinger (Jul 2, 2006)

the Ibanez guitars that Rusty got are gorgeous, but since there is about a 0.5% chance of a production model of any of those, I'm happy to see what Dean can offer


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## bostjan (Jul 2, 2006)

Maybe we should all organize and try to get Dean to do a production eight overseas, unless Rondo would take on such a task. That way, we would have something to do to drive ourselves nuts and show that we don't know how to take "no" for an answer despite tons of logical arguments.

Actually, an AV8 would probably cost about $1200 and be no better than the AV7. 

Anyway, what happened to Rusty playing ERG's?


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## Shannon (Jul 2, 2006)

Interesting. Well, at least there will be another 7 on the market.


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## DBDbadreligion (Jul 2, 2006)

what lo-profile trem are they gonna use? i dont know if they'ed be allowed to use ibanez edge trems.


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## bostjan (Jul 2, 2006)

I was wondering the same thing. It'll be interesting to see how much of this is truth and how much of it never happens.


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## jtm45 (Jul 2, 2006)

I've really got nothing against Dean guitars but i'll be mighty surprised if they come up with a guitar that's anywhere near that twin EMG,Double-Edge Lo Pro beast that Ibanez built for him.

I hope they do surprise us all but it would be such a major departure from the sort of guitars they normally make that i just can't see them going to those extreme lengths for Rusty.

We all know he's an uber-guitarist but the rest of society probably haven't ever heard of him and signature models 'usually' have to attract the mass market.


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## Chris (Jul 2, 2006)

jtm45 said:


> I've really got nothing against Dean guitars but i'll be mighty surprised if they come up with a guitar that's anywhere near that twin EMG,Double-Edge Lo Pro beast that Ibanez built for him.
> 
> I hope they do surprise us all but it would be such a major departure from the sort of guitars they normally make that i just can't see them going to those extreme lengths for Rusty.
> 
> We all know he's an uber-guitarist but the rest of society probably haven't ever heard of him and signature models 'usually' have to attract the mass market.



Completely agree.


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## JPMDan (Jul 2, 2006)

Mahathera said:


> A big "hell yes" to this
> 
> I love the Dean US Hardtails and Zs.
> 
> Plus I have a soft spot for Dean seeing as my first 7 was an Avalanche.



my first 7 was from Dean as well the EVO Special 7 and so far to me it's one of the best 7's I've played alont with the S7420FM and the RG7620.


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## Samer (Jul 2, 2006)

Only thing i dont like about Dean is there marketing, it just feels fake to me. I hope the guitar will be good thought.


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## jacksonplayer (Jul 2, 2006)

I've played one of the USA Dean Hardtails that Noodles referred to--what a sweet guitar!

That said, most of the import Deans I've played were very much in the Epiphone, low-end Indonesian Ibanez, territory. Not a bad starter guitar, maybe, but nothing to get that excited about. I never did get to try one of the Czech-made Dean EVOs, though. I suspect this new Rusty sig model will be basswood body, bolt-on neck, and TRS-7 trem. In other words, nothing I'm going to GAS over.


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 2, 2006)

You dean haters should check out: http://carlinoguitars.com/

deans are gorgeous.


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## Chris (Jul 2, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> You dean haters should check out: http://carlinoguitars.com/
> 
> deans are gorgeous.



The front page is a big purple axe in a typically ugly shape. :\


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 2, 2006)

Chris said:


> The front page is a big purple axe in a typically ugly shape. :\








denied.


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## Ken (Jul 2, 2006)

zak said:


> Switching around?
> He switched from Jackson to Ibanez because Jackson was bought out and they started treating people really badly (same reason why Dave Mustaine left), and his name was starting to get out there so Ibanez approached him.
> I'm guessing he's switching to Dean because they seem to be better with ideas. If you noticed from a thread a while ago, Rusty asked for an 8 before Dino or anyone else and it wasn't until he found out they were making them for the others that they said yes to him. Also if you read a recent interview from him before he recieved the 8, it seems that he's had a large amount of ideas towards making a signature 7. Ibanez just probably didn't care to listen. Dean does.
> I also believe that one of the reasons Petrucci left was because he presented them (Ibanez) with various ideas towards a signature 7 that were turned down, Erine Ball listened.



Yes, switching around.

Started on Ibanez. Went to Jackson (kept Ibanezes). Courted Conklin (kept Ibanezes). Now at Dean (kept Ibanezes, Jackson is MIA)

You're wrong if you think Ibanez doesn't care to listen, IMO. I've talked to Rob Balducci, and they make him whatever he wants. Are they sig models? No. Is Rob big enough to support a sig model? No. I love Rob, don't get me wrong, he just doesn't have enough of a following to justify a sig model, and neither does Rusty.

The truth is that you have to be big enough for ANY manufacturer to give you a sig model. Rusty isn't there.

I'll say it again, he needs to stick with one manufacturer and develop a relationship. Then he needs to grow his fan base to the point where he can give that manufacturer the sales they need to justify a sig model.


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## NDG (Jul 2, 2006)

As excited as I am about this, I have to admit I want that Ibanez deeply.


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## Shawn (Jul 2, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> Rusty's a great player, but he's either a primadonna or a whore. Seems he's teased a few companies into giving him great axes, only to leave a short time later.
> 
> It's ironic, really. Companies want endorsees so their fan base will buy the guitars. Since Rusty moves around SO much, his fans aren't going to be able to keep up with him, gear-wise.
> 
> He needs to make up his mind and establish a serious RELATIONSHIP with a company, rather than these one-night stands.




I like this guitar and always have.


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## steve777 (Jul 2, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> Yes, switching around.
> 
> Started on Ibanez. Went to Jackson (kept Ibanezes). Courted Conklin (kept Ibanezes). Now at Dean (kept Ibanezes, Jackson is MIA)
> 
> ...



Spot on. 

As far as the Ibanez thing goes, if they wouldn't make a production model 7 for Petrucci (What a shame), then there is no way they are going to go out on a limb for Rusty. Besides, why would he really care? If I was signed to Ibanez and they made my guitars to my specs, I would be elated. I wouldn't give two shits if you guys could get them.


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## bostjan (Jul 3, 2006)

None of those shapes do anything for me. I  my Dean Edge 6F bass, though.

You know, I've played USA Deans, and I thought they were pretty cool, but the ones I played were mostly neck-through Jackson-style guitars with strat-like shapes.

As for Ibanez, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot more to this than you guys are assuming. It's really between Rusty and Ibanez, so who's to say how happy Rusty should be with how they treat him?


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## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> I personally hate dean guitars... because they're like Gibson... in feel, not in sound. Their sound blows Gibson's away anyday.
> 
> Their "shred worthy" guitars, such as the ones that MAB plays, I've never seen or had the chance to play one. Are they even production models? If Rusty gets a sig guitar... and it is shred worthy, then I'll be happy with his switch to Dean.



No way. I'm the biggest Gibson hater there is, and the Deans I've played are nothing like those. You're way off  I can't speak for all their models, but the USA HardTail I owned played like a dream. It was also the most gorgeous guitar I've ever played. Pictures don't do it justice. These are the anti-Gibsons in terms of playability and tone.

Sigh, I miss this guy so much. Too bad it was a 6-string or I would have kept it.


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 3, 2006)

Those hardtails are hot as fuck.


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## maliciousteve (Jul 3, 2006)

The USA Dean Hardtails are some of the greatest playing, nicest looking and greatest sounding guitars ever. They play like a dream and are incredibly comfortable. If Rusty's signature model will be the same quality as the USA hardtails and don't cost an arm and leg, i'll be getting one.


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## Ancestor (Jul 3, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> denied.



I'd like to see a 7 string version of this.


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## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> I've played one of the USA Dean Hardtails that Noodles referred to--what a sweet guitar!
> 
> That said, most of the import Deans I've played were very much in the Epiphone, low-end Indonesian Ibanez, territory. Not a bad starter guitar, maybe, but nothing to get that excited about. I never did get to try one of the Czech-made Dean EVOs, though. I suspect this new Rusty sig model will be basswood body, bolt-on neck, and TRS-7 trem. In other words, nothing I'm going to GAS over.



The Czech guitars were as good as the USA ones, which is why they killed the line, IMO. We had 2 Czech EVO in the shop I worked at, and they blew away any Korean guitar in the store. We also had a Korina V from that line, a damaged factory second, man that thing was still fucking killer even with chunks taken outta the paint and a reglued neck.

I'm interested to see if Rusty's guitar turns out to be a non-standard shape. It'll probably be a Strat shape though.  Maybe it'll boost intrest in Dean 7 strings enough that they'll re-issue the ML-7.


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## Vegetta (Jul 3, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> The reason why _I_ didnt like dean before, is when they had the Michael Batio clinic at our store where i worked - the guy that runs dean (Not Dean Zilinski.. i think its someone like.. shit..i cant remember his name..I think its Dan Gellispie or something like that) was there too. and he was talking to us sales guys about dean sales and stuff. and he asked me what kind of guitars i played.. i told him ibanez.. and he said 'well, we'll have to change that.' so i told him the only way i'd buy a dean is if they made a 7 string.. he responds with "People still play those?"



WTF lmao its statements like this that make me wonder how some companies stay in business.


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## darren (Jul 3, 2006)

Maybe Rusty had some ideas for his signature guitar that Ibanez didn't want to execute. They pretty much want all of their "shred" guys to play RGs. How Marty Friedman got an SZ-based signature model, i don't know.


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## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

darren said:


> Maybe Rusty had some ideas for his signature guitar that Ibanez didn't want to execute. They pretty much want all of their "shred" guys to play RGs. How Marty Friedman got an SZ-based signature model, i don't know.



He bypassed Hoshino USA and talked directly with Hoshino Gakki in Japan?


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## Jerich (Jul 3, 2006)

I find this to be a marketing P L O Y!!! Rusty is at the top of the heap of players making a major wave in the guitar community...so i am sure he has offers thrown at him on a daily basis...I mean the "Diamond" Amps are but a wet dream right now.....and IBANEZ are known for burnning thier bridges with endorsee's who want more then a plain old stamp model guitar...so there is nothing diffeerent that makes me say WOW!! Rusty will have a new model....I would rather him put his time into Passive pickups...that would be Killer...actives make a base ball bat sound the same as a Prize Model Gibson...but a creative model passive would sell like HOT CAKES....Dean make Ugly guitars period ...they have killer wood selection tho!!!!


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## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

Some Deans obviously arent ugly. They make more than the flying Vs and Z shapes.


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## Rick (Jul 3, 2006)

Why, Rusty, why?


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## Drew (Jul 3, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> Yes, switching around.
> 
> Started on Ibanez. Went to Jackson (kept Ibanezes). Courted Conklin (kept Ibanezes). Now at Dean (kept Ibanezes, Jackson is MIA)



Ken, you're right too much. Stop that.  


Myself, as he was a guy I'd always associated with older UV's and the occasional RG7, I was shocked when he switched to Jackson. I was slightly less so when I noticed that, while all of the promo shots had a Floyd Rose in it, all the live pics I saw showed it'd been almost immediately re-routed for a Lo-Pro Edge. Shortly thereafter, you started seeing him a lot with a Conklin 9. Then all of a sudden he had a new custom shop 7 from Ibanez, EMG's, peizo bridge, flip-flop finish... and then now, right after Ibanez builds him a custom 8-string, he announces a deal with Dean. 

From a marketing standpoint, to me none of it matters as there's approximately 0% chance of my buying a Rusty Cooley signature guitar, but I was rather hoping to see a production 8 string come out of their relationship... 

I'm sure what it came down to was Dean offered to release a "signature" model, while Ibanez didn't. Bold move on their part, but as Rusty's probably preimenant in the new wave of shred guitarists, it just might pay off. Either way, more power to him, I'm just curious to see the finished product.

Petrucci makes a lot more sense to me, as he's worn his Steve Morse influence quite proudly for years.


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## Shawn (Jul 3, 2006)

Drew said:


> Petrucci makes a lot more sense to me, as he's worn his Steve Morse influence quite proudly for years.


 I love his new EBMM JP guitars, the more I see him play one on dvds, the more I want one. Especially his mystic dream one. Very nice. Steve Morse is awesome too. I would love to play one of his guitars. 

I like Rusty's Jackson alot but I think his Ibanez is nicer IMO.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 3, 2006)

jtm45 said:


> We all know he's an uber-guitarist but the rest of society probably haven't ever heard of him and signature models 'usually' have to attract the mass market.




What if:
a. The above changes with the release of the new OutWorld (I'll put money down that his new 7 will be done by then, and who's to say that the release of the OutWorld album won't be a huge independent release)?

b. ...and Dean trying to get on the ground floor with another aspiring artist before they get huge (think Dimebag here, but with an emphasis on intentionality, and not the accideantal meeting that occured with Dimebag)?

c. ...and maybe Dean recognizes the lack of current choice in production 7 strings and sees a potential market?

I think this is great news, this is has the potential to resurrect the 7 string market with an artist that will garner respect (and no I'm hating on Korn, I love Korn actually, but we all saw what happened when they were associated with the seven string, the traditional market abandoned the rg7 in droves).

Ibanez, despite having competition from Schecter, has not responded to requests for more 7 string production models, and at this point (for reasons I will get to in a moment), I don't think they will, so why shouldn't someone else step up to plate and do it. Dean is a great choice, as their popuilarity in the metal scene in increasing, and historically their guitars are awesome.

Besides , maybe Ibanez CAN'T release other production 7's, can anyone here collaborate the rumor the Vai somehow "owns" the design for the UV/RG7 , even to the point where Ibanez had to get "permission" from him to make the K7? I swear I read this somewhere, but I could be wrong.

Now all we have to do in convince Dean to convince Dimarzio to make Dimebucker 7, then.....things will be ALL good.


----------



## Leon (Jul 3, 2006)

i agree with Noodles on this one. the more production 7's out there, the better


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## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

psyphre said:


> Now all we have to do in convince Dean to convince Dimarzio to make Dimebucker 7, then.....things will be ALL good.



Duncan. 

PS: Dean, make a 7 string V!!!!!!!


----------



## Drew (Jul 3, 2006)

psyphre said:


> Besides , maybe Ibanez CAN'T release other production 7's, can anyone here collaborate the rumor the Vai somehow "owns" the design for the UV/RG7 , even to the point where Ibanez had to get "permission" from him to make the K7? I swear I read this somewhere, but I could be wrong.



I have no way to say this with absolute certainty, but my gut instinct would be to bet heavily against this, especially in light of the HRG's.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 3, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> I'll say it again, he needs to stick with one manufacturer and develop a relationship. Then he needs to grow his fan base to the point where he can give that manufacturer the sales they need to justify a sig model.



I agree, and think that manufacturer is going to be Dean. I mena c'mon aren't they from TX, if that doesn't help foster a "relationship" nothing will.

Wait, come to think of it, aren't Diamond Amps ALSO in TX. There's the whiff of a trend here.



Toshiro said:


> Duncan.
> 
> PS: Dean, make a 7 string V!!!!!!!




Opps...my bad...typing pre-coffee.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

psyphre said:


> I agree, and think that manufacturer is going to be Dean. I mena c'mon aren't they from TX, if that doesn't help foster a "relationship" nothing will.
> 
> Wait, come to think of it, aren't Diamond Amps ALSO in TX. There's the whiff of a trend here.



Dean's home office was in Tampa FL, last I heard.


----------



## AbsentCurtis (Jul 3, 2006)

Sorry to the Ibanez guys, but one I got my Dean Vendetta 7, I stopped thinking about my RG 7620 all together, and actually sold it. If an inexpensive guitar like the Vendetta 7 can play like it does, a sig model is gonna be sweet tits.

(btw) just won an EVO 7 on Ebay this weekend... can't wait to get it into my hands!!!


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> No way. I'm the biggest Gibson hater there is, and the Deans I've played are nothing like those. You're way off  I can't speak for all their models, but the USA HardTail I owned played like a dream. It was also the most gorgeous guitar I've ever played. Pictures don't do it justice. These are the anti-Gibsons in terms of playability and tone.
> 
> Sigh, I miss this guy so much. Too bad it was a 6-string or I would have kept it.


That's why I said Deans _sound_ better. I could care less about looks, although they are pretty guitars... the main thing I look for, is feel. There's no "comfort curve" on the body for your right arm, the neck is fat, it's connected to the body the same way, which is thick as hell, bad fret access... It's features are similiar to Gibson guitars. I think their quality in build, sound, and looks are better, just the features kill them for me.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 3, 2006)

steve777 said:


> If I was signed to Ibanez and they made my guitars to my specs, I would be elated. I wouldn't give two shits if you guys could get them.



I bet you'd care if you made money from every guitar that sold with your name of it.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't high power endorsement deals hinged on some sort of kickback system??? (Petrucci makes a commission when an EBMM sells, Vai for his JEM series, Van Halen when he had the Wolfgang, etc). I was always under the impression that it was a little bit more involved than just having access to your own personalized axe.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> That's why I said Deans _sound_ better. I could care less about looks, although they are pretty guitars... the main thing I look for, is feel. There's no "comfort curve" on the body for your right arm, the neck is fat, it's connected to the body the same way, which is thick as hell, bad fret access... It's features are similiar to Gibson guitars. I think their quality in build, sound, and looks are better, just the features kill them for me.



Anyone have a pic of the neck heel on a Dean EVO? It's not thick/clunky at all, makes Gibson look childish, and would give an AANJ a run for it's money, IMO.

Edit:


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Anyone have a pic of the neck heel on a Dean EVO? It's not thick/clunky at all, makes Gibson look childish, and would give an AANJ a run for it's money, IMO.


you can just tell from this:






But, for the Evo... yeah, it's raised up a little, and more fret access. The fact that it still has pretty bad fret access due to the body, and that big ass body with no comfort curve...

I'm picky! haha


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> you can just tell from this:
> clip image[/QUOTE]
> 
> That's not an EVO. Look at above pic.
> ...


----------



## noodles (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> But, for the Evo... yeah, it's raised up a little, and more fret access. The fact that it still has pretty bad fret access due to the body, and that big ass body with no comfort curve...
> 
> I'm picky! haha



You wouldn't be picky if you ever played one. On first look, they appear to be another clunky Gibson-style design. I really expected it to feel clunky like a PRS. This couldn't be further from the truth, because it is one of the most comfortable guitars I've ever played. Ibanezes feel like toys next to this thing.


----------



## Adam (Jul 3, 2006)

maliciousteve said:


> The USA Dean Hardtails are some of the greatest playing, nicest looking and greatest sounding guitars ever. They play like a dream and are incredibly comfortable. If Rusty's signature model will be the same quality as the USA hardtails and don't cost an arm and leg, i'll be getting one.


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## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

noodles said:


> Ibanezes feel like toys next to this thing.



I wouldn't quite go that far, but it's your opinion.  

Depends on the Ibanez, and the player. I liked the Deans I've played(especially the Euro-made ones), but I didn't sell my RGs to buy them for my employee discount(10% above cost no less  ). 

It's unfair to go either direction with this, both brands make high-end and beginner instruments. Comparing them is futile.


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> That's not an EVO. Look at above pic.)





myself said:


> But, for the Evo... yeah, it's raised up a little, and more fret access. The fact that it still has pretty bad fret access due to the body, and that big ass body with no comfort curve...
> 
> I'm picky! haha


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

I can read, and I posted before you edited.  It's f'ing insulting as hell when you do that.


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> I can read, and I posted before you edited.  It's f'ing insulting as hell when you do that.


I was just pointing it man. I looked it up myself and edited the post.

It's insulting as hell when I post something, and you don't care to read the full thing...  and I edited it probably at the same time as you added the pic. But you never edited your post, so I thought I'd point out my addition.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> That's why I said Deans _sound_ better. I could care less about looks, although they are pretty guitars... the main thing I look for, is feel. There's no "comfort curve" on the body for your right arm, the neck is fat, it's connected to the body the same way, which is thick as hell, bad fret access... It's features are similiar to Gibson guitars. I think their quality in build, sound, and looks are better, just the features kill them for me.



Um, they play great too. Yeah the neck joint is PRS-ish, but the neck itself is not like a Gibson, its very comfortable. As for your comment about the lack of a "comfort curve" and "bad fret access", that's ridiculous. Grow some balls mang!  I prefer the feel of the Ibanez too, but the USA Dean Hardtails play effortlessly as well. So there isn't a huge contour for your arm, it's still extremely comfortable. The fret access is great with those guitars. I seriously doubt you've played one of the USA Hardtails before. In fact, I know you haven't.


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Um, they play great too. Yeah the neck joint is PRS-ish, but the neck itself is not like a Gibson, its very comfortable. As for your comment about the lack of a "comfort curve" and "bad fret access", that's ridiculous. Grow some balls mang!  I prefer the feel of the Ibanez too, but the USA Dean Hardtails play effortlessly as well. So there isn't a huge contour for your arm, it's still extremely comfortable. The fret access is great with those guitars. I seriously doubt you've played one of the USA Hardtails before. In fact, I know you haven't.


argh, I give up on this shiznat, haha. There is no such thing as _personal preference_ is there.


----------



## jacksonplayer (Jul 3, 2006)

I have no doubt that Rusty has more of a financial stake in a Dean sig model than he did as a relatively small-time Ibanez endorser. Plus, Ibanez *wouldn't* make him whatever he wanted--they simply made him a modified RG, which is pretty much all they do anymore.

Dean, being a much smaller company, is probably more interested in catering to the needs of someone like Rusty than Ibanez would ever be. The real question is whether the Rusty sig model will be a high-quality guitar or whether it will be entry-level. Perhaps both? It would be nice if it came with the option of a fixed bridge.


----------



## ts73 (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> SHUT UP! NO. He has gorgeous hair.


 
You also gotta love the tucked-in t-shirt. Snappy...




(Sorry, when I posted this oh so hillarious comment I did not realize the thread was already 10 pages long)


----------



## Jeff (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> SHUT UP! NO. He has gorgeous hair.



Dude, I dare you to go to summer NAMM and use those exact words. All notions of Drew being gay will be overshadowed by said comment.


----------



## Ken (Jul 3, 2006)

steve777 said:


> If I was signed to Ibanez and they made my guitars to my specs, I would be elated. I wouldn't give two shits if you guys could get them.



God, as horrible as that statement is, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

Jeff said:


> Dude, I dare you to go to summer NAMM and use those exact words. All notions of Drew being gay will be overshadowed by said comment.





> You also gotta love the tucked-in t-shirt. Snappy...


What!? I think the man is sexy. Can't I say that without being flamboyantly gay?=D



[action=David]has the hotts for rusty.[/action]


----------



## Jason (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> What!? I think the man is sexy. Can't I say that without being flamboyantly gay?=D
> 
> 
> 
> [action=David]has the hotts for rusty.[/action]




Homo!!


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

.jason. said:


> Homo!!




 



 

 

 

!!!


----------



## D-EJ915 (Jul 3, 2006)

good lord...that was ridiculous.


----------



## XEN (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> What!? I think the man is sexy. Can't I say that without being flamboyantly gay?=D



No. You can't. I on the other hand can, but choose not to on an open forum.


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## jufob (Jul 3, 2006)

Good move, I like Dean because they helped rescue Michael Schenker from a sudden downward spiral and marketing MS sig. models which keeps him playing and recording.


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## David (Jul 3, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> good lord...that was ridiculous.


says the man who...


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## Ken (Jul 3, 2006)

Uhh. Borderline "not allowed"?


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

GDI stop posting that fucking pic w/o a NWS tag. 

And get the hell back on topic!

/forumnazi


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

Chris said:


> GDI stop posting that fucking pic w/o a NWS tag.




Man, I thought to myself "Who the fuck is GDI?" and actually looked back to see what GDI was short for.


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

GD Canucks.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 3, 2006)

David said:


> I was just pointing it man. I looked it up myself and edited the post.
> 
> It's insulting as hell when I post something, and you don't care to read the full thing...  and I edited it probably at the same time as you added the pic. But you never edited your post, so I thought I'd point out my addition.




You know what, forget it. Just forget it.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 3, 2006)

Umm yeah so all of you Dean haters (and by all of you, I mean David) need to try a nice Dean, then you may continue hating if you want.

I love my Ibanez and all, but it really rubs my nads the wrong way when people hate a guitar just because it's not an Ibanez.

Or maybe I'm just a whore for BC Rich, Parker, and other nice (ahem, non-PRS non-Gibson) US guitars.


----------



## thedownside (Jul 3, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Maybe it'll boost intrest in Dean 7 strings enough that they'll re-issue the ML-7.



I know i love mine. it's not a high end guitar by any means, but does it ever play nice and sound mean. just wish it didnt have the neck of a baseball bat


----------



## bostjan (Jul 3, 2006)

My AV7 had pretty thin neck. Maybe about 1 or 1.5 mm thicker than a Wizard.


----------



## Nik (Jul 3, 2006)

I was browsing the Outworld forums, and Rusty actually seems really disappointed with his Ibby 8. I love Rusty, but his attitude kind of annoys me. Like, he was whining about the trem on the 8 being too high, etc. Boo-hoo, I suck at guitar compared to Rusty, but shit, I can adapt to mild variations in guitars like that fairly quickly. I think he's being a bit overly-pretentious. As for the Dean switch, I personally wouldn't do it, but all the best to him I guess. He really should settle down and build a longer term relationship with a builder rather than play the role of the village bicycle. Everyone's had a ride.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 3, 2006)

Well, if he's not happy with the bridge, he has every right to switch companies. Pretentious would be refusing to play the guitar. I don't see why you think this is a negative thing. If you had your pick of any guitar, then pick what you like, and if you don't like it, you can switch. Not like anyone else wouldn't do the same.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm with you Bostjan. We're both Parker whores, and appreciate a good Dean. I deem everything you say true. Because agreeing with me = wisdom.


----------



## Ken (Jul 3, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Well, if he's not happy with the bridge, he has every right to switch companies. Pretentious would be refusing to play the guitar. I don't see why you think this is a negative thing. If you had your pick of any guitar, then pick what you like, and if you don't like it, you can switch. Not like anyone else wouldn't do the same.



So, he's not happy with a piece of hardware on his 8. By his own admission (on his Outworld forum) he doesn't use it much anyway because he's too busy at the moment.

But, instead of working with Ibanez, it's justification to leave one company for another? Even if it is, who here thinks Dean will build him an 8 at all, much less one that he's happy with?

If he left Ibanez because he didn't like the bridge on a guitar he rarely plays, what would you label that behavior as if it's not pretentious?

God Bless America, he should be able to jump around to a different manufacturer every week if he wants. It's just a horrible waste of time, money, and credibility.


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

Nik said:


> I was browsing the Outworld forums, and Rusty actually seems really disappointed with his Ibby 8. I love Rusty, but his attitude kind of annoys me. Like, he was whining about the trem on the 8 being too high, etc. Boo-hoo, I suck at guitar compared to Rusty, but shit, I can adapt to mild variations in guitars like that fairly quickly. I think he's being a bit overly-pretentious. As for the Dean switch, I personally wouldn't do it, but all the best to him I guess. He really should settle down and build a longer term relationship with a builder rather than play the role of the village bicycle. Everyone's had a ride.



In his defense (I haven't read the thread), I'm sure he gets a babillion questions about that thing. You can't hold it against him for pointing out what he doesn't like about it if people ask him.

If I'm out of line, just tell me to shut the hell up, because I didn't see/read the stuff in question.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 4, 2006)

The bridge was the _only _reason I parted with my KXK. It wasn't recessed enough so the action was outrageously high even when lowered all the way. That can be quite a big factor, but I doubt his was like that.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 4, 2006)

Can I tell you to shut the hell up just for the sake of it?


----------



## Chris (Jul 4, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> Can I tell you to shut the hell up just for the sake of it?



I'm drinking 18 year old scotch and I'm in a damn good mood, so sure.  Just don't get used to it or I'll unstable Mr. Test.


----------



## Chris (Jul 4, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> The bridge was the _only _reason I parted with my KXK. It wasn't recessed enough so the action was outrageously high even when lowered all the way. That can be quite a big factor, but I doubt his was like that.



Was yours the same as Dave's? His is beautiful, but it would take me such an adjustment to get used to it. Every time I went to put my hands on th strings, I ended up behind the bridge.  I had to like, do a concentration curl position to get my hands on the strings.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 4, 2006)

What would I label that behaviour? "Fickle"

I highly doubt that Ibanez would give a flying fuck about his problem with their bridge. They have bigger fish to fry. If Rusty Cooley goes up to Ibanez and says "Hey guys, this bridge is a little too high, and it fatigues my picking hand. The fine tuners get in the way of my palm muting, so it makes me feel a bit awkward, could you design a new bridge for me?" they would laugh out loud. Their bridges are very highly sought after, and they are a huge company. Rusty is still getting off the ground.

So yeah, fickle is not the nest quality, but to say he's pretentious because he switched brands a few times is a pretty long stretch. He may be pretentious for other reasons, though, I never met him.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 4, 2006)

Chris said:


> Was yours the same as Dave's? His is beautiful, but it would take me such an adjustment to get used to it. Every time I went to put my hands on th strings, I ended up behind the bridge.  I had to like, do a concentration curl position to get my hands on the strings.



No, mine was the first 7-string he attempted. It was gorgeous and well made, but just had that one bridge flaw which made it unplayable to me. He made Dave's properly. Mine was a little different than his. It was mahogany body, maple neck thru, ebony board no inlays, brass nut specifically filed for my string gauge, direct mount EMG 707, 26.0 scale, sperzels, etc. A pic can be found here. It was my avatar for a long time when I joined this fine establishment.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> I was browsing the Outworld forums, and Rusty actually seems really disappointed with his Ibby 8. I love Rusty, but his attitude kind of annoys me. Like, he was whining about the trem on the 8 being too high, etc. Boo-hoo.




Mild variation my ass, have you seen the pics of the trem on the ibby 8, it's an lo-trs with 8 saddles. 







After having the Jackson, and the UV, and his custom 7, yeah I could see how he might consider the bridge subpar. I know, business wise, Ibby has to take a "wait and see" attitude in regard to the 8, and I also understand that retooling to build 8 string parts is not a small undertaking, but if I was in Hoshino's position I'd be actively looking for a new champion for their extended range model, it onliy takes one to do something major.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 4, 2006)

Yeah, but I think Meshuggah and Dino are way more well known than Rusty.

If Rusty keeps shredding like crazy and pairs up with Dean to do endorsements, he will become more well-known. I mean, if Dean knows what's good for them, they'll draw more attention to him, since they don't have a heck of a lot of big-name endorsers.


----------



## Ken (Jul 4, 2006)

bostjan said:


> So yeah, fickle is not the nest quality, but to say he's pretentious because he switched brands a few times is a pretty long stretch. He may be pretentious for other reasons, though, I never met him.



It may be a long stretch, but I have long arms. 

Seriously though, how the hell do any of us know for sure? I'm not privy to the info needed to make a correct analysis.

At the very heart of it, I just can't understand what he's doing. I honestly believe that if Jackson, Conklin, and Ibanez couldn't make him happy, then Dean can't either. Whether he likes it or not, he's an Ibanez player to the bone. I firmly believe he won't stay with Dean either.

It's been a LONG time since I've looked at Dean's guitars though, and I've never been really excited about anything they've done. I'm not a hater, nor am I knocking them or their products, they've just never done anything for me. Who knows? Maybe they'll surprise me.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Jul 4, 2006)

Scott said:


> Man, I thought to myself "Who the fuck is GDI?" and actually looked back to see what GDI was short for.


 Me too, dude. 

 *Scrolling through pages* _Who the hell is this GDI cat?_


----------



## steve777 (Jul 4, 2006)

psyphre said:


> I bet you'd care if you made money from every guitar that sold with your name of it.
> 
> Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't high power endorsement deals hinged on some sort of kickback system??? (Petrucci makes a commission when an EBMM sells, Vai for his JEM series, Van Halen when he had the Wolfgang, etc). I was always under the impression that it was a little bit more involved than just having access to your own personalized axe.



Actually, if you'll take a closer look at that rolling smilie, you will see that my statement was made in jest.


----------



## Nik (Jul 4, 2006)

Chris said:


> In his defense (I haven't read the thread), I'm sure he gets a babillion questions about that thing. You can't hold it against him for pointing out what he doesn't like about it if people ask him.
> 
> If I'm out of line, just tell me to shut the hell up, because I didn't see/read the stuff in question.



It ain't necessary, I was just citing my opinion on the matter.

psyphre - yes, mild variation. I hope I don't offend anyone with what I'm about to say, but... people always bitch about a neck being too thick, too thin, about this and that, and IMO it's all pointless bitching. There are VAST differences between my RG7 and my Accoustic Alvarez (obviously) in terms of just about everything and in order to play my accoustic, my body is forced into a TOTALLY different playing position, and yet with some practice, I can play my accoustic at a similar level as my RG despite of the vast differences. 

Again, I hope nobody gets offended by what I said, and I'm gonna pull a Chris and say that, if anyone thinks I'm out of line, feel free to tell me to shut up, but that's what I honestly believe. If something is different and uncomfortable to you, it isn't absolutely uncomfortable; with a little practice, you can get used to just about anything. Sure it's nice to have every single tiny detail in a guitar made to your exact specifications, but sometimes you have to make amends.

Besides, Rusty's Ibby 8 has the low F# and he said that it's primarily a rhythm instrument for writing and studio work, etc., so I don't know why he didn't just get it with the fixed-FX-bridge in the first place.

If Ibanez gave me an 8, I wouldn't bitch about it, I would just spend the 2-3 hours it takes to adjust to any guitar playing it and get used to how it feels.


----------



## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

When i first started playing, i would play any guitar because i didn't really know what made a neck feel "good" or "bad". Then i went through a phase of wanting a very specific feel out of my guitars, but i've moved beyond that and back to the "i'll play just about anything" mode. I've only played a handful of guitars that had necks that i really didn't like, but those are on the extremes of "baseball bat" and "thin and flat".

I'm able to easily switch between my Dean, my Danelectro and my Music Man, and can even switch over to a 6-string with only minimal adjustment. I guess part of it is that i don't _expect_ my guitars to look, sound or feel the same. I like the unique character of different guitars, and my creativity and playing responds accordingly.

I kinda feel bad for players that have a very narrow set of criteria for "playability" because they're missing out on a lot of really fun, really awesome-sounding instruments.


----------



## David (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> I was browsing the Outworld forums, and Rusty actually seems really disappointed with his Ibby 8. I love Rusty, but his attitude kind of annoys me. Like, he was whining about the trem on the 8 being too high, etc. Boo-hoo, I suck at guitar compared to Rusty, but shit, I can adapt to mild variations in guitars like that fairly quickly. I think he's being a bit overly-pretentious. As for the Dean switch, I personally wouldn't do it, but all the best to him I guess. He really should settle down and build a longer term relationship with a builder rather than play the role of the village bicycle. Everyone's had a ride.


The trem being too high... would mean the action is too high. I'd like to see Rusty play the same way he does now with a high ass action. 

Plus, if I had an Ibby 8, I'm not just going to love it (or buy one), because it has 8 strings and nobody else has one. If it's a good guitar, then I'll like it, if it's got some major flaws to me, then I'll say screw it. I'm guessing he's doing the same.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 4, 2006)

I wonder why he wouldnt just route the guitar so the trem could go lower. If he doesn't want it, I'll buy it and do the work and have a kick ass axe


----------



## Cancer (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> Again, I hope nobody gets offended by what I said, and I'm gonna pull a Chris and say that, if anyone thinks I'm out of line, feel free to tell me to shut up, but that's what I honestly believe. If something is different and uncomfortable to you, it isn't absolutely uncomfortable; with a little practice, you can get used to just about anything. Sure it's nice to have every single tiny detail in a guitar made to your exact specifications, but sometimes you have to make amends.




I'm not offended, we're just chattin'. I find this whole Rusty thing kinda fascinating, I mean in essence we're watching the rise of a "guitar hero", a guy who has an pretty good shot of rising from the niche fridges to say a Satriana, possibly even Vai-lilke status (ok ,maybe not THAT high, but you get the idea).

Actually Van Halen (and Bettencourt, and Vai) went through the same thing, only difference is he (they) built his (their) guitars himself, and then got other makes to copy it (Kramer, then Peavey, and now Charvel I guess....)

When you're that high up the guitar playing food chain, settling isn't, nor should it be, an option, and having a guitar maker behind you, arguably, could have as much to do with your actual success as your actual releases, so it's a pretty important choice.

After all kids can't have your hero status nailed into head if they can't fawn over your guitars at a GC, or drool over them in a Musicians' Friend.

Vai has Ibanez sewn up, Conklin is too expensive for a kid to go into a GC and buy (and no the Groove Tools series doesn't count ...LOL), Fender is too generic and taking Jackson production with it, god only knows why ESP was never on the table, Schecter just signed Loomis, so who does that leave?

Dean, who I'm sure on some level realize that they can't ride the Dimebag thing forever.

Personally, I can't wait to see what they come up with.....

Now, if Rusty signs to ESP, well then he's being a prissy bitch...LOL


----------



## David (Jul 4, 2006)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I wonder why he wouldnt just route the guitar so the trem could go lower. If he doesn't want it, I'll buy it and do the work and have a kick ass axe


you know... It'll probably end up on evil bay like his conklin 9.


----------



## Nik (Jul 4, 2006)

psyphre said:


> I'm not offended, we're just chattin'. I find this whole Rusty thing kinda fascinating, I mean in essence we're watching the rise of a "guitar hero", a guy who has an pretty good shot of rising from the niche fridges to say a Satriana, possibly even Vai-lilke status (ok ,maybe not THAT high, but you get the idea).
> 
> Actually Van Halen (and Bettencourt, and Vai) went through the same thing, only difference is he (they) built his (their) guitars himself, and then got other makes to copy it (Kramer, then Peavey, and now Charvel I guess....)
> 
> ...



I agree, I'm excited to see what Dean come up with; I just think that Rusty is being a bit TOO prissy. In any case, if Ibanez release a production 8 (Summer NAMM is a few days away!), Rusty might be able to talk Dean into an 8-string, which would be awesome.

Dean piss me off about their whole Dimebag thing, though; They're exploiting his death for their own profit, which is obviously wrong.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 4, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> . The real question is whether the Rusty sig model will be a high-quality guitar or whether it will be entry-level. Perhaps both? It would be nice if it came with the option of a fixed bridge.



Prolly a high-end, that will trickle down to an entry level, like they did with the DimeBag model (or am I thinking Washburn.... [action=Psyphre] goes off to the Dean site to look....[/action])


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## BrianCarroll (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> Besides, Rusty's Ibby 8 has the low F# and he said that it's primarily a rhythm instrument for writing and studio work, etc., so I don't know why he didn't just get it with the fixed-FX-bridge in the first place.



+1


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## Cancer (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> Dean piss me off about their whole Dimebag thing, though; They're exploiting his death for their own profit, which is obviously wrong.



Yeah that weirds me out, like i want to give them the benefit of a doubt that this more then a way to unload Razorbacks, and it sometimes feels like they are doing it for memorial reasons, to give the fans a chance to own "piece of Dimebag...." ,but then the cynic feels like they are trying to exploit, perhaps it's both.

It's weird cuz sometimes I get that same vibe from Vinnie too, like "Yeah I'm really sad about my brother, oh but hey buy his video, bu his guitars, let's make some money while we can....", perhaps that how he deals with the grief ...I dunno.

Part of me feels bad for even writing that now....., perhaps I am truly sheep.


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## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

If Darrell's contract stipulated that he gets $XX per guitar sold, chances are that Dean is honouring that agreement by giving the royalties to his estate, so the money will likely still end up going to his family. I don't think they'd be promoting the hell out of the Dime models and keeping all the money to themselves.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> If Darrell's contract stipulated that he gets $XX per guitar sold, chances are that Dean is honouring that agreement by giving the royalties to his estate, so the money will likely still end up going to his family. I don't think they'd be promoting the hell out of the Dime models and keeping all the money to themselves.


Yeah, almost certainly the case, Darren. In fact, if they did, his estate/family would likely have legal grounds for a case.


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## bostjan (Jul 4, 2006)

So back to Rusty being fickle, I have reconsidered. I don't think he is. Look at how many companies Eddie went through? Ernie Ball, Peavey, Kramer, etc. Granted it was over a longer time span, but still.

Look at Steve Vai! He's had Conklins and Emerald Electrics and all sorts of signature guitars from high end luthiers, even during his contract with Ibanez.


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## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, based on my experience in working with Kevan Geier in designing Rob Balducci's next guitar, i can tell you that the list of what Ibanez's LACS _won't_ let endorsees do is longer than what they _will_ allow them to do with their custom artist guitars. We had some REALLY cool ideas that were all shot down. So his next guitar is... yet another RG.

So even Ibanez endorsees don't get full freedom over what their personal guitars are.

Let's say you were an up-and-coming guitar, and you really wanted your own instrument to make a statement and separate you from the pack. If presented with the two following scenarios, which would you choose?

Ibanez: "We'll build you what you want... as long as it's an RG-based instrument that meets with our approval."

Dean: "We'll build you what you want."


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## Ken (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> Well, based on my experience in working with Kevan Geier in designing Rob Balducci's next guitar, i can tell you that the list of what Ibanez's LACS _won't_ let endorsees do is longer than what they _will_ allow them to do with their custom artist guitars. We had some REALLY cool ideas that were all shot down. So his next guitar is... yet another RG.
> 
> So even Ibanez endorsees don't get full freedom over what their personal guitars are.
> 
> ...



Hmm. That surprises me. I was under the impression that he got what he wanted. Didn't know it was like getting a shake at McDonald's: Have whatever you want as long as it's chocolate, strawberry or vanilla.


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## Kevan (Jul 4, 2006)

There's a lot of funny shit in this thread.

Burtch and I have some fond memories of events like this, don't we Ken? 

You guys show me an 8-string LoPro, and I'll show you some SERIOUS custom machining (probably $1500-$2000, just for the trem). You *sure* you want a signature model now?



noodles said:


> Probably because Ibanez wasn't giving either of them exactly what they wanted. Ibanez isn't exactly know for having a custom shop that will build anything you want.


Take a look at the last few guitars Rob Balducci has received from them. I think Rob's BAL-7 has tented more than a few shorts on this forum.  
When I design the guitars with Rob, we're using fairly standard hardware and methods, but adding little touches like reverse offset inlays, exotic woods, cool finishes, etc. And his newest one is *not* an RG-shape!

Rusty is cutting edge. He always will be.
As he's said many times, he wants to 'push the envelope' of guitar playing. Ibanez didn't want to lick the stamps, so maybe Dean will. Pucker up, buttercup.

And for the record: Rusty does have great hair.


----------



## D-EJ915 (Jul 4, 2006)

Rusty makes Fabio jealous.


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## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

... and i _have_ seen pics of Rusty with his shirt untucked.

It's true.


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## Donnie (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> ... and i _have_ seen pics of Rusty with his shirt untucked.
> 
> It's true.


 I was waiting for that from someone.


----------



## BrianCarroll (Jul 4, 2006)

Kevan said:


> You guys show me an 8-string LoPro, and I'll show you some SERIOUS custom machining (probably $1500-$2000, just for the trem). You *sure* you want a signature model now?



Well, it's probably two trems cut in half and joined together, like the meshuggah ones... and not custom

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/2198/noname22cw.jpg


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## ts73 (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> ... and i _have_ seen pics of Rusty with his shirt untucked.
> 
> It's true.



I'm not talking about the ones with his pants off. Those don't count.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 4, 2006)

Nik said:


> It ain't necessary, I was just citing my opinion on the matter.
> 
> psyphre - yes, mild variation. I hope I don't offend anyone with what I'm about to say, but... people always bitch about a neck being too thick, too thin, about this and that, and IMO it's all pointless bitching. There are VAST differences between my RG7 and my Accoustic Alvarez (obviously) in terms of just about everything and in order to play my accoustic, my body is forced into a TOTALLY different playing position, and yet with some practice, I can play my accoustic at a similar level as my RG despite of the vast differences.
> 
> ...



Totally agree. I also agree with what Darren said after you made this comment.

Ill pick up any guitar and play it, I have pretty big hands so stretching long distances isn't much of a problem. I'm happy so long as something isn't cutting open my hand.

Or maybe i'm just too much of a noob to know what a quality guitar feels like when I play one. 

Yeah that's probably the case, when I went to guitar world I played a jem for a while and I didn't really see what the big deal was about it. Nor did I notice how the scalloped upper register frets facillitate my bending.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 4, 2006)

Gosh, would the low F saddle on that thing go back any further?


(I don't see what the big deal is with JEM's either)

If I had my choice, I'd go with Dean myself. Dean would give me more exposure, and make me a more recognizable instrument.


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## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

If Dean ends up making a 7-string HardTail, i may just poop myself.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> If Dean ends up making a 7-string HardTail, i may just poop myself.



If you mean like the uSA ones, oh boy... I'd sell anything possible to get the Dean HT I had but a 7.


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## Kevan (Jul 4, 2006)

BrianCarroll said:


> Well, it's probably two trems cut in half and joined together, like the meshuggah ones... and not custom
> 
> http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/2198/noname22cw.jpg


That's not a trem. It's a hardtail.
A functioning trem system takes a little bit more than simply cutting two baseplates in half and welding them together.


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## Nik (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> If Dean ends up making a 7-string HardTail, i may just poop myself.



I'm gonna steal your title of "mister negative pants" for one second and say that this is highly unlikely seeing as how Rusty uses the trem a lot and all of his guitars except for his Conklin have Floyd Roses.

It would be nice, though


----------



## BrianCarroll (Jul 4, 2006)

Kevan said:


> That's not a trem. It's a hardtail.
> A functioning trem system takes a little bit more than simply cutting two baseplates in half and welding them together.



Then, he'll make big bucks on eBay by selling it...heh heh


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## bostjan (Jul 4, 2006)

Someone needs to make a trem for fanned fret eight stringers. Any volunteers to put of the $40,000 for tooling?


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## Cancer (Jul 4, 2006)

darren said:


> If Darrell's contract stipulated that he gets $XX per guitar sold, chances are that Dean is honouring that agreement by giving the royalties to his estate, so the money will likely still end up going to his family. I don't think they'd be promoting the hell out of the Dime models and keeping all the money to themselves.




[hijack]
If that's the case, and of course is it.... then that's fine. Statements llike that frame it in a way that makes me feel alot more comfortable about the whole thing. That and it's win/win for both the Abbots, Dean, and the fans.

Thank you for that, needed that different perspective.....
[/hijack]


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## Leon (Jul 5, 2006)

hey, here's an idea...








based on what i've seen, he'll be back to Ibanez before long. don't fret


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## noodles (Jul 5, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> But, instead of working with Ibanez, it's justification to leave one company for another? Even if it is, who here thinks Dean will build him an 8 at all, much less one that he's happy with?



If they built this:






Odds are they'll build him an eight.



psyphre said:


> Yeah that weirds me out, like i want to give them the benefit of a doubt that this more then a way to unload Razorbacks, and it sometimes feels like they are doing it for memorial reasons, to give the fans a chance to own "piece of Dimebag...." ,but then the cynic feels like they are trying to exploit, perhaps it's both.



All the final interviews I read with Dime made one thing overwhelmingly clear: he was excited as hell about being back with Dean, and went nuts designing the Razorback, coming up with new finishes for the ML's, and developing the business aspects of his gear endorsements. If Dime was still around, you'd still see all this stuff. Why is it wrong now that he's dead?


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## Nik (Jul 5, 2006)

noodles said:


> If they built this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good point


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## skattabrain (Jul 5, 2006)

steve777 said:


> Spot on.
> 
> As far as the Ibanez thing goes, if they wouldn't make a production model 7 for Petrucci (What a shame), then there is no way they are going to go out on a limb for Rusty. Besides, why would he really care? If I was signed to Ibanez and they made my guitars to my specs, I would be elated. I wouldn't give two shits if you guys could get them.



as much as i love 7's, i doubt ibanez could support another 7 string. they build what their research tells them people will buy.

universe
k7
rg1527
rg7321

4 guitars that aren't even in a GC 85% of the time ... at least in my area

they need less sig's to make more room for non-sigs in my opinion, i'd buy a sig only if what i wanted was in it and not available else where.



jtm45 said:


> We all know he's an uber-guitarist but the rest of society probably haven't ever heard of him and signature models 'usually' have to attract the mass market.



i'd think it's safe to scratch out 'probably' ... i know guitarists who don't know who he is. comment was made about dino ... dino has a fraction of rusty's skills but i bet there are more guitarists out there that picked up a guitar because of him versus rusty.


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## NDG (Jul 5, 2006)

I see a Vendetta-esque sig in his future.


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## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

Here's one i find particularly peculiar...

The Dean HardTail _Vibrato_!

It's a HardTail... _with a trem!_


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## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

But keep in mind that Rusty is brand spanking new on the scene. Before FF came out with their debut, how many people knew about Dino?

As far as the Ibanez sigs go, I think they make some awful mistakes. They did a sig for the guitar player in White Zombie. Nothing against that guy, but how many people do you think ordered one of those? Come on.

I know some people buy sig guitars because they are fans, but I would never buy a guitar only for that reason. Frankly, I would not buy a Michael J Romeo sig nor a Rob Jarzombek sig unless it had some kick-ass specs, including seven or more strings. I think most guitarists are the same way.

Darren, isn't that a sort of self contradiction?


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## skattabrain (Jul 5, 2006)

i think sig's are lame period ... unless you are playing one of those $150 orange country choppers guitars ... now those will speak volumes for you image.


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## Chris (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> Here's one i find particularly peculiar...
> 
> The Dean HardTail _Vibrato_!
> 
> It's a HardTail... _with a gimmick!_



Fixed.


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## Ken (Jul 5, 2006)

noodles said:


> If they built this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I disagree. In my mind, there's a big difference between taking existing parts and throwing them in an odd shaped block of wood as opposed to an 8 with new tooling, jigs, etc.

I'm not a luthier, so I could be wrong. Guess we'll see.


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## noodles (Jul 5, 2006)

^ You know, I thought about that after posting. However, I think it is more along the lines of Dean having the right attitude. They like doing unique, outrageous stuff.


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## Cancer (Jul 6, 2006)

noodles said:


> Why is it wrong now that he's dead?



It's not...., it's like, I just needed to hear it, y'know. Quell the cynic within and all that jazz....


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## StevieHimself (Jul 8, 2006)

Vegetta said:


> WTF lmao its statements like this that make me wonder how some companies stay in business.




Take it from me: I'm not famous by ANY means but since I've gotten my Ibanez deal, I've been approached by several guitar companies to "switch over" (one guitar company told me I was playing a "straw with strings"). 
Being a 7-string guitarist for 7 years now, I can see why guitar manufacturers are so quick to find the latest player because it's such a unique niche. If Rusty feels that Dean will assist him better than Ibanez, more power to him. Maybe Dean is trying to get a leg up on the competition, and what better way to do that than to find 7-string players? And maybe Rusty wants to be a part of this new niche that Dean is creating. Who knows for certain. All I can say is, loyalty is rare in this business. Any guitarist that jockeys around from brand to brand will eventually make guitar companies and fans sour towards him/her, and trust will disappear. Am I wrong?


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## JPMDan (Jul 8, 2006)

What guitar company told you that you were playing a straw with strings?


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## bostjan (Jul 8, 2006)

Question for you guys? How popular were Ibanez guitars pre-UV?

Before Dean made a seven, I never really gave them a second glance.

Seemed to me that the world of endorsement was dominated by Jackson, BC Rich, Fender, and Gibson in the eighties. Maybe I'm way off, but it seems that companies gain a little notoriety when the build a seven stringer. What do you guys think?


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## Scott (Jul 8, 2006)

It wasn't really the UV that put Ibanez on the map. It was Vai himself. He's the reason behind the Jem/UV/RG, which of course, ibanez is best known for.


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 8, 2006)

I think the difference is that Dean tend to be a little more loyal to the guys who've been with them for ages, like Dimebag, Kerry Kivgren rather than just throwing endorsements at the feet of whoever happens to be fashionable each year.
I think it was more the endorsement from Steve Vai rather than the UV itself that really put Ibanez on the map. He made the brand credible, after they had a rep (unfair or not, I don't know...) for making nothing but copies. There was an interview in Guitar World a while ago where a couple of execs from the company said as much.


----------



## Ken (Jul 8, 2006)

StevieHimself said:


> Take it from me: I'm not famous by ANY means but since I've gotten my Ibanez deal, I've been approached by several guitar companies to "switch over" (one guitar company told me I was playing a "straw with strings").
> Being a 7-string guitarist for 7 years now, I can see why guitar manufacturers are so quick to find the latest player because it's such a unique niche. If Rusty feels that Dean will assist him better than Ibanez, more power to him. Maybe Dean is trying to get a leg up on the competition, and what better way to do that than to find 7-string players? And maybe Rusty wants to be a part of this new niche that Dean is creating. Who knows for certain. All I can say is, loyalty is rare in this business. Any guitarist that jockeys around from brand to brand will eventually make guitar companies and fans sour towards him/her, and trust will disappear. Am I wrong?



No, I don't think you're wrong. I said it early on as well. It will cost Rusty in terms of credibility, both with companies and his fans. If he's a flavor of the month guy, few will buy a sig model because he'll probably just get bored after 6 months and find a way to be unhappy with the product. Worse yet, he'll eventually cycle through the companies and when he comes full circle companies will be gun-shy about going all-out for him.

I will state here that there's nothing wrong with having companies compete for him. He's WAY worthy of that, IMO. 

He needs to keep that side of his business private, however, until he's made a choice. No more of this posting "Hey look what Ibanez/Conklin/Jackson gave me" on his website. Word of that spreads like wildfire the first couple of times. When he finally does get something he's proud of, word will spread much more slowly. Think of it as "crying wolf", if you will.


----------



## Cancer (Jul 8, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> I think the difference is that Dean tend to be a little more loyal to the guys who've been with them for ages, like Dimebag.




This statement is funny because wasn't actually an endorser until shortly before his death, sure had OWNED Deans (actually I remember hiim saying for awhile he resorted to picking them up in pawn shops and modifying them), but between his dad's gift and his death, he was actually a Washburn endorser. Washburn copied his Dean added a Floyd and a Bill Lawrence, and the DimeSlime was born.







I think he may have even been an ESP endorser for awhile to, for I distinctly remember him in one of the Pantera videos, having his signature shape guitar only with an ESP headstock, running on the beach.

I only bring this up to make this point, I don't think what Rusty is doing is by any means unusual or even different for high level endorsers. I said it once, and I'll say it again, if you have the means, then why would you settle ...I sure as hell wouldn't.


----------



## jacksonplayer (Jul 8, 2006)

Ken Burtch said:


> No, I don't think you're wrong. I said it early on as well. It will cost Rusty in terms of credibility, both with companies and his fans.



I disagree--I don't think it will make much difference. Even though Rusty has endorsed several companies before now, he didn't have a sig model with any of them. Conklin is purely a custom shop, and he ordered his Jackson(s) from their custom shop pretty much the way anyone would. And with Ibanez it's not like you or I could have ordered the same ones he got, since only endorsers get to do that. This Dean deal is a chance for him to actually get his guitar design out there for the public--not to mention I'm sure he's getting paid better.


----------



## Ken (Jul 8, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> I disagree--I don't think it will make much difference. Even though Rusty has endorsed several companies before now, he didn't have a sig model with any of them. Conklin is purely a custom shop, and he ordered his Jackson(s) from their custom shop pretty much the way anyone would. And with Ibanez it's not like you or I could have ordered the same ones he got, since only endorsers get to do that. This Dean deal is a chance for him to actually get his guitar design out there for the public--not to mention I'm sure he's getting paid better.



Make no mistake, I hope you're right. I hope he gets everything that he wants in his guitars and his career.


----------



## noodles (Jul 9, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Seemed to me that the world of endorsement was dominated by Jackson, BC Rich, Fender, and Gibson in the eighties. Maybe I'm way off, but it seems that companies gain a little notoriety when the build a seven stringer. What do you guys think?



Nope. Ever since the late seventies, Fender and Gibson had been seriously suffering. First it was Jackson and Kramer. However, the Japanese Yen started seriously packing the dollars lunch, so ESP and Ibanez came along with boatloads of cash and bought up all the endorsers. Jackson, Kramer, Dean, and BC Rich were sold during this period. Gibson was rescued from bankruptcy by Henry Jacowhateverthefuckhisnameis, which is now a pretty common story.

Jackson/Charvel was pretty much always a small operation, and just couldn't afford to endorse. No one got free guitars in the early days. Rhoads, Mustaine, Ian, Spitz, Hanaman, Crosby, Di Martini, Lynch, etc...they all paid for their first few guitars. Kramer got sloppy and fucked things up with Eddie and Lynch, and everyone else followed them out the door. BC Rich got pigeonholed by their shapes. Dean Z was a great builder, but a lousy president.

The Japanese companies could give the kids metal axes for peanuts, as well as put guitars in the hands of the guys on MTV. It's really a no-brainer at that point.



psyphre said:


> This statement is funny because wasn't actually an endorser until shortly before his death, sure had OWNED Deans (actually I remember hiim saying for awhile he resorted to picking them up in pawn shops and modifying them), but between his dad's gift and his death, he was actually a Washburn endorser. Washburn copied his Dean added a Floyd and a Bill Lawrence, and the DimeSlime was born.



Dean was actually out of business by the time Cowboys from Hell was released, which is why he only ever found them in pawn shops. This is another neat look into the way Dime's mind worked, and the attachment he had to certain things. When Dean opened back up, Dime soon followed. They agreed to it over beers and a handshake. He just had a strong attatchment to those guitars, and I seriously doubt any of his Washburns ever saw any serious studio time. He always talked about recording with the lightning bolt Dean.

Adam Jones is much the same way. He outbids people on E-bay on 70's Les Paul Custom silverbursts. He said in an interview that nothing sounds quite like them, including the new ones. Ty Tabor uses a pick from a compay that is no longer in business. He got used to these thin, green nylon picks with a little circle on the grip, and ridges 1/4 of the way up the pick from the tip. He told me that when the company went under, he bought up all of them he could find in every music store in every town they played. He said he estimates at least forty thousand of the things in his garage, and he only gives out the warn out ones at shows, for fear of running out.

Guitarists are funny creatures.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 9, 2006)

I really don't remember seeing that many Ibanezes in the eighties, though.

I remember a lot of people playing fenders and whatnot, though. Eventually, a lot of those guys moved to Ibanez, but not until the nineties, it seems.


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## zimbloth (Jul 9, 2006)

That Adam Jones is bit is kind of neat. I'd probably be doing that too if I was in his position. I have a weird quirk where, I only feel comfortable with slightly worn .2mm Gator Grip picks. I've yet to find a brand new pick that I like. I'm sure one is out there but I haven't found it.


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## noodles (Jul 9, 2006)

^ Well, it really was the tail end of the eighties where it started to happen, not really finishing until right before grunge. Then Fender and Gibson came back into vogue, and the whole vintage craze hit. Ibanez and ESP, but sheer size and versatility at that point, simply adapted to more traditional designs, and weathered the storm until metal started surfacing again.

However, the US metal guitar companies never really recovered. Jackson has been doing suprisingly well under Fender ownership, considering that many of us thought they'd totally ruin the line by making things more Fendery. Kramer...well, Gibson raped them pretty hard. BC Rich is utter shit now. Dean, who was never that big to begin with, is back at about the same level.


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## zimbloth (Jul 9, 2006)

US Music Corporation is putting out a good product with Parker and Washburn, too.


----------



## Allen Garrow (Jul 9, 2006)

Whoa,,,,what the hell. Never saw that one coming. I can't believe he left Ibanez? Then again, he seemed to sort of bail on Conklin with that mysterious 8 string he had for a very short time. I'm glad for him and that Dean is willing to make him a sig' model, but damn leaving his Ibanez? I wonder if he is going to be running an auction now, moving out all the Ibanez stock?

Congrats I suppose.

~A


----------



## Jeff (Jul 9, 2006)

noodles said:


> Nope. Ever since the late seventies, Fender and Gibson had been seriously suffering. First it was Jackson and Kramer. However, the Japanese Yen started seriously packing the dollars lunch, so ESP and Ibanez came along with boatloads of cash and bought up all the endorsers. Jackson, Kramer, Dean, and BC Rich were sold during this period. Gibson was rescued from bankruptcy by Henry Jacowhateverthefuckhisnameis, which is now a pretty common story.
> 
> Jackson/Charvel was pretty much always a small operation, and just couldn't afford to endorse. No one got free guitars in the early days. Rhoads, Mustaine, Ian, Spitz, Hanaman, Crosby, Di Martini, Lynch, etc...they all paid for their first few guitars. Kramer got sloppy and fucked things up with Eddie and Lynch, and everyone else followed them out the door. BC Rich got pigeonholed by their shapes. Dean Z was a great builder, but a lousy president.
> 
> ...



If there were a Trivial Pursuit: Rock and Metal Edition, you sir, would be the champion!


----------



## jtm45 (Jul 9, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I really don't remember seeing that many Ibanezes in the eighties, though.



Paul Stanley's Iceman was probably the first really big Ibanez artist endorsement where they designed and built a guitar for that artist (though i do seem to 'maybe' recall someone having a sunburst Iceman before PS?)and that was in the early 80's.
The guy from ABBA was an Ibanez endorsee in the late '70s too.He used a white Ibanez Artist series.
ooh, and Phil Lynott too! He used those Roadstar basses exclusively at one point.
And Phil Collen (the DT555? sig. Destroyer)and Adrian Smith used Destroyer II's a lot in the 80's.

There is actually a lot when you start thinking about it.


----------



## ts73 (Jul 9, 2006)

jtm45 said:


> Paul Stanley's Iceman was probably the first really big Ibanez artist endorsement where they designed and built a guitar for that artist (though i do seem to 'maybe' recall someone having a sunburst Iceman before PS?)and that was in the early 80's.
> The guy from ABBA was an Ibanez endorsee in the late '70s too.He used a white Ibanez Artist series.
> ooh, and Phil Lynott too! He used those Roadstar basses exclusively at one point.
> And Phil Collen (the DT555? sig. Destroyer)and Adrian Smith used Destroyer II's a lot in the 80's.
> ...



Carlos Santana played an Ibanez Artist in the 70's.



Allen Garrow said:


> I wonder if he is going to be running an auction now, moving out all the Ibanez stock?



I don't see why he would do that, honestly.


----------



## shredfreak (Jul 9, 2006)

I can understand his switch to dean completely actually, don't really understand all the fuss about it  

When i got into metal i saw all those dudes rip it up on jackson's so naturally my first decent guitar was a jackson (kelly model). 

If that outworld debut sells good there's most likely a production model to be released (why not make a series out of it even, HELL YEAH) 
Afterall, if you see a guy like rusty rip it up on his 7 and 8 strings, i hardly doubt there's not one who's tempted on trying out the same guitars he's playing, and dean makes great quality guitars so this can only be a good thing in my opinion.


----------



## Project2501 (Jul 9, 2006)

Wow if you guys think Outworld is going to be big you are NUTZ!!! 

His type of music is purely niche music these days. Blame MTV for that. 

Rusty is just an opportunist, he is trying to make money. I don't blame him for it. I don't think it really has anything to do with him not getting what he wants spec-wise from LACS. Dean probably figures that having him onboard can open their brand up to a new market. I bet that his sig model will be Korean made and be priced under 1000$. My guess is it will be similar to the Dean Custom Zone that will look oddly similar to the Ibanez he has. 

Eh if I am wrong BLOW ME UP Sideways!!


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## NDG (Jul 9, 2006)

From the Outworld Forum


Rusty Cooley
OFFICIAL BAND MEMBER
Post Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:28 pm 
They made me an offer I couldn't refuse! The Dean will be based off of my Jackson.


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## David (Jul 9, 2006)

Mahathera said:


> From the Outworld Forum
> 
> 
> Rusty Cooley
> ...


I never knew they had message boards... I just signed up as David in there.


----------



## Adam (Jul 9, 2006)

You should sign up for Rusty Cooley's forum I joined there a while ago.


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## David (Jul 9, 2006)

Yeah, I'm on rusty's already, although I don't even think I've made a post.


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## Adam (Jul 9, 2006)

Youre not the only one, that place is dead, no one barely posts


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## MetalMike (Jul 10, 2006)

If its based off his jackson it will no doubt be an awesome guitar as far as playability. It worries me what it will look like though. I can't see his jackson without the signature pointy headstock let alone with one of those v pointy headstocks. Now if they decided to base the color on his ibanez..


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## David (Jul 10, 2006)

Yngwie said:


> Youre not the only one, that place is dead, no one barely posts


I can expect that... why post about one person constantly?


----------



## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

noodles said:


> Jackson has been doing suprisingly well under Fender ownership, considering that many of us thought they'd totally ruin the line by making things more Fendery.



I'd actually kind of like to see one or two new Jacksons that ARE a bit more fendery, as well as a whole bunch of new Fenders that are a lot more Jackson-y. I always seem to be happier on super-strat style guitars with a slightly more vintage than normal feel - the Ibanez Wizard neck is really just a little thinner than I prefer. 

As an aside, I've still never really played a top-shelf Jackson. Half the reason I'm looking forward to meeting you Division guys is because you're all honestly cool people, but half is also that I'm really curious to see how a "proper' Jackson plays.


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## eaeolian (Jul 10, 2006)

If you want a "Fender-y" Jackson superStrat, try a PC-1.

And we love you, too, Drew.


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## noodles (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> I'd actually kind of like to see one or two new Jacksons that ARE a bit more fendery, as well as a whole bunch of new Fenders that are a lot more Jackson-y. I always seem to be happier on super-strat style guitars with a slightly more vintage than normal feel - the Ibanez Wizard neck is really just a little thinner than I prefer.









I see Mike beat me to the punch, but do I really need an excuse to post pics of a guitar this stunning?


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## Toshiro (Jul 10, 2006)

Man, it just looks odd with the strat head after years upon years of the funky Jackson headstock.

I remember when my Co-workers came back from NAMM the year Fender bought Jackson. They were supposedly not going to use the Fender headstock on Jackson guitars. That lasted about as long as it took for accounting to realize the market for strathead Chavels was insane. Not that I think it's a bad thing overall.


----------



## noodles (Jul 10, 2006)

Well, the PC1 never had the standard Jackson pointy:


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## Toshiro (Jul 10, 2006)

noodles said:


> Well, the PC1 never had the standard Jackson pointy:



That's what I meant by "funky Jackson headstock". It's just, well, funky.


----------



## darren (Jul 10, 2006)

It was like they wanted to use the Fender headstock and Phil still liked his Tom Andersons, so they blended the two. Looks sort of like a flaccid Fender headstock to me. I'm glad they're using the proper Fender head now. And Phil's trying out the Floyd Rose Speedloader on a more recent one with a flip-flop trans finish!

It's also nice to see that after a period of uncertainty, the Jackson Custom Shop is really thriving and continuing to put out some awesome stuff.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 10, 2006)

darren said:


> It was like they wanted to use the Fender headstock and Phil still liked his Tom Andersons, so they blended the two. Looks sort of like a flaccid Fender headstock to me. I'm glad they're using the proper Fender head now.



They actually had that 'stock before the PC-1 came along, they had just used it for imports, though. I don't mind it, but the guitar looks better with the Strathead. He's still got a couple of the old ones, though, 'cause he used them when I saw them last Friday.

Back on topic, has Dean ever done a Strat shape that didn't sucK?


----------



## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

noodles said:


> I see Mike beat me to the punch, but do I really need an excuse to post pics of a guitar this stunning?



No, no you don't...  



...and if I coughed up like $3k, they'd probably do that as a seven with a 2-point Hipshot bridge, wouldn't they?


----------



## D-EJ915 (Jul 10, 2006)

I've never even seen a Dean superstrat except in Batio's vids.


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## jtm45 (Jul 10, 2006)

The PC looks so much better with the proper strat-shaped headstock.

Those sustainers always catch my interest. I'm sur they used to be referred to as 'Floyd Rose' manufactured but they don't any more.

They list them at around 8 or $900 as a Custom-Shop option!!!!!!

Someone over on Jemsite tried to say that they are unique because they'll work with any of the pickups (as opposed to just the bridge)but i think that cannot possibly be right (can it?).
It just doesn't seem possible to me.


----------



## noodles (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> ...and if I coughed up like $3k, they'd probably do that as a seven with a 2-point Hipshot bridge, wouldn't they?



Probably much more, since those things have quilted maple caps and flame maple fretboards. It is not uncommon to find "nicer" production ones that have solid flame maple necks (no separate fingerboard, like classic Fender), birdseye maple necks, special colors, etc. It is Jackson's showcase model for pretty woods and finishes. The production models pass the two grand mark IIRC.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 10, 2006)

It would be amazing if they made a USA Hardtail 7. Those are pure class.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> No, no you don't...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and if I coughed up like $3k, they'd probably do that as a seven with a 2-point Hipshot bridge, wouldn't they?



Yep. I've thought about it myself. Plan on $3K, although not much more, unless you go with a 3/4" maple cap.


----------



## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

Eh, honestly, while I love a good quilt, I'd be just as happy with a pickguard and a trans finish over alder or ash. 

I'm too lazy to count, is that a 22-fret or 24-fret neck, and if it's 24, will they build a 22? 

Sorry to load you guys with questions, but you're both our local Jackson guys, and while nothing's certain until I get to try a USA Custom Jackson myself, if they could build me a 22-fret maple-necked strat style guitar with what looks to be better upper access than a Fender body and an actual Fender style headstock (sorry, I think the things look perfect), then that might be enough to make me take the plunge, especially since Anderson isn't about to make 7's again any time soon, it seems.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> Eh, honestly, while I love a good quilt, I'd be just as happy with a pickguard and a trans finish over alder or ash.
> 
> I'm too lazy to count, is that a 22-fret or 24-fret neck, and if it's 24, will they build a 22?



The PC-1 is 24. They'll build almost anything you ask - I have a 22 fret Soloist, so doing 22 on a normal body shape is no issue. If you're going to go for a custom, though, I suggest you bother with the quilt veneer - it's worth the extra $100, seriously.


----------



## noodles (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> Sorry to load you guys with questions, but you're both our local Jackson guys, and while nothing's certain until I get to try a USA Custom Jackson myself, if they could build me a 22-fret maple-necked strat style guitar with what looks to be better upper access than a Fender body and an actual Fender style headstock (sorry, I think the things look perfect), then that might be enough to make me take the plunge, especially since Anderson isn't about to make 7's again any time soon, it seems.



I wish they would put the custom shop quote generator back on the site, because that will tell you how much all the "standard" options cost. They'll do just about anything you have the money for, though. If you want what is essentially a 7-string Strat with a Jackson logo, they will buiild it.


----------



## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

noodles said:


> If you want what is essentially a 7-string Strat with a Jackson logo, they will buiild it.



Well, a seven string strat with slightly better upper access - maybe an angled neck heel, and the PC cutaways look a touch deeper than a Strat body, but near enough. Hmm. 

A quilt top is only an extra $100? You're right, Mike, it WOULD be stupid not to. 

I guess part of the reason why I've never seriously considered a Jackson is I don't particularly care for their "normal" headstock, and I've never played a Floyd style bridge that measures up to the Ibanez Edge in terms of feel and stability. Also, I suspect I've never gotten to play an American or Custom Shop Jackson has a lot to do with this too... However, considering I'd sell a testicle for a good seven string Strat, and Jackson's now owned by Fender so the logistics are a non-point, I'd rather go through them than Fender. 

This will require some soul searching and possibly a lot of saving.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 10, 2006)

You could always get a Jackson hardtail. You'd probably like the SL-1T model or whatever. Hows that 4x12 working out for you?


----------



## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

Nah, I require SOME kind of a trem, even if it's dive-only... 

Someone else beat me to it, and then I remembered a couple 3-figure bar tabs on my card last month, and decided really I was still pretty happy with my current setup anyway, so for the time all additional speaker plans are on hold.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 10, 2006)

Fair enough. Personally the lack of many USA Jacksons being hardtails is what prevented me from buying more of them over the years. But, I've owned a couple and loved them anyways.

Damn... you should carpool to AA with Gary Busey  Anyways, sorry you missed out on the 4x12 deal. I have a guy coming by to look at my cab tonight, hopefully it'll sell.


----------



## noodles (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> Well, a seven string strat with slightly better upper access - maybe an angled neck heel, and the PC cutaways look a touch deeper than a Strat body, but near enough. Hmm.



That's because it's a Dinky body, not a Strat body. They are deeper, and the body is 7/8 the size. 



> I guess part of the reason why I've never seriously considered a Jackson is I don't particularly care for their "normal" headstock, and I've never played a Floyd style bridge that measures up to the Ibanez Edge in terms of feel and stability. Also, I suspect I've never gotten to play an American or Custom Shop Jackson has a lot to do with this too... However, considering I'd sell a testicle for a good seven string Strat, and Jackson's now owned by Fender so the logistics are a non-point, I'd rather go through them than Fender.



Jackson will install whatever bridge you want, but if it's not something they normally use, you'll have to provide it. Most people go with the Jackson headstock because it doesn't cost anymore, and they're a fan of the standard headstock already. However, they'll build whatever you want, as long as you're not infringing on copyrights. IIRC, Matt Crooks ordered the first seven string guitar with the SLS headstock, as well as the first pointy Star. He told me about how they faxed sketches to him.


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## darren (Jul 10, 2006)

A seven string hardtail would be pretty awesome. But i doubt that's what Rusty has in mind.


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## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Damn... you should carpool to AA with Gary Busey



In my defense, they were me and a couple friends, and one of 'em was dinner at a rather nice steakhouse...


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 10, 2006)

mm... steak.


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## darren (Jul 10, 2006)

I wonder what kind of price difference there'd be between similarly-equipped Fender and Jackson custom shop 7-string strats.


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## Drew (Jul 10, 2006)

My money's on Fender being the most expensive, but if I ever decide to go for it, I can get quotes on both sides and find out for you...


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 10, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> The PC-1 is 24. They'll build almost anything you ask - I have a 22 fret Soloist, so doing 22 on a normal body shape is no issue. If you're going to go for a custom, though, I suggest you bother with the quilt veneer - it's worth the extra $100, seriously.


Ash accepts see-through finishes beautifully, though...so I'd just get see-through ash because it looks amazing *points to H207*


----------



## Matt Crooks (Jul 10, 2006)

noodles said:


> IIRC, Matt Crooks ordered the first seven string guitar with the SLS headstock, as well as the first pointy Star. He told me about how they faxed sketches to him.



Mostly true. I did order the first 7 string SLS headstock (and the second, and fourth). I did work with them to draw the pointy star body, but there are two others, at least. One was built in '85 (I didn't know about it when I ordered mine). The drawings Mike Shannon did for me look _a lot_ like the one build in '85, so he may have based his drawings from that.

I may have some of the faxes still, but I ordered that guitar in 1998, so it's been a while.


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## eaeolian (Jul 10, 2006)

Drew said:


> My money's on Fender being the most expensive, but if I ever decide to go for it, I can get quotes on both sides and find out for you...



Fender's CS is WWWAAAYYY more expensive, IIRC. I remember being stunned at the price difference.



Matt Crooks said:


> Mostly true. I did order the first 7 string SLS headstock (and the second, and fourth).



Guess that makes me #3.


----------



## W4D (Jul 10, 2006)

Well as for Rusty moving to Dean. I think he will be happy there. I know the basses they make custom for me kick ass. But I am not sure who is the in house guy now though, since Mick left the company last month. Mick was and still is the man. 

He and I did the mock ups for my Dean basses I use on stage the Six and Seven string Bass. 1 - 12 fretted and 13 -24 frettless. I am sure what ever Rusty will be playing on he will be happy with.

Welcome to the family.

I know I know. How can I play Dean when I make guitars as well. 

Well I have been doing the Dean thing for most of my natural and un natural life. I support everything they do. they are not my enemy they are my friend. They have been real cool to me and have treated me as part of the family for many many many years now.


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## God Hand Apostle (Jul 10, 2006)

Doesnt Brian Hoffman (ex-Deicide) work at the Dean CS too?


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 10, 2006)

W4D said:


> I know I know. How can I play Dean when I make guitars as well.
> 
> Well I have been doing the Dean thing for most of my natural and un natural life. I support everything they do. they are not my enemy they are my friend. They have been real cool to me and have treated me as part of the family for many many many years now.



^ That's kickass.


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## W4D (Jul 10, 2006)

God Hand Apostle said:


> Doesnt Brian Hoffman (ex-Deicide) work at the Dean CS too?




David Vincent of MORBID ANGEL works there also



The Dark Wolf said:


> ^ That's kickass.



Yeah it is. I have been endorsed by alot of companies but they have been teh most honest, fair, and fucking straight up people I have met in the industry.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jul 10, 2006)

It's cool how you still do your own thang, too. More power to you, I say.


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## Matt Crooks (Jul 11, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Guess that makes me #3.



Who is number one?


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## eaeolian (Jul 11, 2006)

Matt Crooks said:


> Who is number one?



By hook or by, uh, crook, we will!


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## Drew (Jul 11, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Fender's CS is WWWAAAYYY more expensive, IIRC. I remember being stunned at the price difference.




 

Guess there's actually a very definite possibility that in the next year or two I may be placing an order for a custom shop Jackson then. Never thought I'd ever say that, and they'd be the LAST brand to come to mind for what I'm looking for (basically a slightly tweaked strat 7), but ironically maybe they're the best suited to do it... 

Clearly you Division guys need to come to Boston on tour so I can give one of those things a try.


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## darren (Jul 11, 2006)

I'm still completely baffled as to why Warmoth doesn't make 7-string necks and bodies in standard scale lengths. I'd totally build a 7-string strat with a licensed Fender neck if those parts were available.


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## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)

Drew said:


> Guess there's actually a very definite possibility that in the next year or two I may be placing an order for a custom shop Jackson then. Never thought I'd ever say that, and they'd be the LAST brand to come to mind for what I'm looking for (basically a slightly tweaked strat 7), but ironically maybe they're the best suited to do it...



They are. Wayne Charvel started the company by offering replacement bodies, necks, and hardware. With the help of EVH, this company made the "Superstrat" available to the public: basicly, a Fender body and neck, but with Gibson frets and pickups. The best of everything at the time.

Wanna really tick off everyone at JCF, Drew? Order it as a Charvel, not a Jackson. You'll probably be the only person on the planet with a 7-string Strathead Charvel. That logo always looked better on that headstock than Jackson IMHO.







Man, I had to hunt to find one with a pickguard and Strat singles.


----------



## Drew (Jul 11, 2006)

darren said:


> I'm still completely baffled as to why Warmoth doesn't make 7-string necks and bodies in standard scale lengths. I'd totally build a 7-string strat with a licensed Fender neck if those parts were available.




 I'd probably have two by now. 

:lol @ noodles. Possibly...  Come to think of it, I did play an absolutely kickass koa-bodied Charvel about 8 months back - it was a 6, but it was easily the most resonant floyd-equipped 6 I've ever played. Felt great too - it had a $1300 price tag on it, so naturally it didn't leave the shop with me, but had it been a 7 I think I might have just done it. I didn't plug it in or anything, but I didn't have to - unplugged you could just tell that the thing sounded gorgeous.


----------



## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)

This one? It's a San Dimas "reissue". They had a line of them for a couple years in the early nineties.

Seriously, though, the Strat head looks better with the Charvel logo than the Jackson, for historical reasons as well as asthetic.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 11, 2006)

Drew said:


> I'd probably have two by now.
> 
> :lol @ noodles. Possibly...  Come to think of it, I did play an absolutely kickass koa-bodied Charvel about 8 months back - it was a 6, but it was easily the most resonant floyd-equipped 6 I've ever played. Felt great too - it had a $1300 price tag on it, so naturally it didn't leave the shop with me, but had it been a 7 I think I might have just done it. I didn't plug it in or anything, but I didn't have to - unplugged you could just tell that the thing sounded gorgeous.



OK, so you've basically played a CS Jackson. The neck profile's different, but they're built by the same people. Although it sounds like you played one from the mid-90s, when they did the "Charvel Reissues", in which case the differences are fairly minimal - expect the CS guitar to be better. 

If that's what it is, it's overpriced. Great guitars, but they're not pulling $1300.


----------



## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> If that's what it is, it's overpriced. Great guitars, but they're not pulling $1300.



In a way, it's sad that they're worth less than this, when a Les Paul from the same period pulls much more, while offering much less.


----------



## Drew (Jul 11, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> If that's what it is, it's overpriced. Great guitars, but they're not pulling $1300.



If it was, then the shop I was in (stocks Fenders and low-to-mid-level Jacksons) somehow pulled in a NOS Charvel from the mid 90's, and then mislabled it. It was brand new, in showroom condition, and I didn't really check too careflly or anything (should have, in retrospect) but I was under the impression it was a fairly new model. 

Aside from that, it was pretty close - bare koa body, rosewood board with abalone dots, and I think even the gold hardware, but I wanna say it was a pickguard-mounted HSH.


----------



## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)

Pickguard? Damn, that might be something out of the custom shop and they didn't know it. None of the reissues came with a pickguard on a koa body.


----------



## Drew (Jul 11, 2006)

I could be dead-wrong, this was maybe a year ago and I only played it for five minutes. 

It was certianly in like-new condition, whatever it was. Had it been a custom shop job, then I can say with a good degree of certainty that I'd be pretty happy with a 7-string custom shop Jackson.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 11, 2006)

All the new Charvels are basically custom orders. Maybe it was a NAMM guitar gone bad, or something?

If you get back over there, Drew, see if you can get the serial number off the plate, and I'll ping my rep about it...


----------



## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)

If it is a custom shop guitar (by order or for NAMM), then it is worth more than that $1300 they're asking.


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## Drew (Jul 11, 2006)

I think it's long gone, but next time I'm in the berkshires I'll stick my head in the place just to be sure. 

If it's NOT the guitar noodles posted, then I'm thinking it's probably a good idea for me to pay the $1300 they're asking? 


(and regardless of what "street value" is on the thing, I will say that if 6's are your thing then the thing played and felt like it was worth their asking price - a very inspiring guitar in all senses. It was kind of an "Ahh, so that's what the big deal is" moment for me.)


----------



## nyck (Jul 11, 2006)

I've been over at the Outworld forums, and Rusty says the Dean will be based on his Jackson!


----------



## noodles (Jul 11, 2006)




----------



## distressed_romeo (Jul 11, 2006)

Doesn't suprise me...I think the Jackson was actually a custom shop job he paid for with his own money rather than the result of an endorsement deal, and so it was probably closer to his ideal instrument than the ones Ibanez sent him.


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## eaeolian (Jul 11, 2006)

Drew said:


> I think it's long gone, but next time I'm in the berkshires I'll stick my head in the place just to be sure.
> 
> If it's NOT the guitar noodles posted, then I'm thinking it's probably a good idea for me to pay the $1300 they're asking?
> 
> ...



Jackson CS/NAMM guitars are funny beasts. Sometimes their value is very high, but some of the really weird ones have lower resale than you'd expect.


----------



## jacksonplayer (Jul 11, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Jackson CS/NAMM guitars are funny beasts. Sometimes their value is very high, but some of the really weird ones have lower resale than you'd expect.



What's funny is how you see a flood of NAMM Jacksons on eBay a few months after the event (there are a few currently, I believe) with $3-4000 asking prices. And they don't move. A lot of the ones from the most recent NAMM had some way over-the-top wicked graphics, but really the sort of thing that you admire once and wouldn't necessarily want to own as your main player.

There was a korina Soloist from a recent NAMM that I thought was pretty droolworthy, but now that I've gotten my San Dimas action going on, I think I'm pretty well set...


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 17, 2006)

Make it some other color than red and it migh be decent. Can't tell if the 12th fret inlay is fugly or not though.


----------



## D-EJ915 (Jul 17, 2006)

My style of guitar, blade and volume \m/


----------



## Project2501 (Jul 17, 2006)

Wow I actually like it. I am surprised. I like red guitars!!!


----------



## darren (Jul 17, 2006)

That's actually pretty nice-looking!


----------



## evil (Jul 17, 2006)

I really like the color, but that ain't no fuckin' Rickenbacker. All true shredmetalheads *must* play Rickenbacker guitars or be deemed false and henceforth cancelled! 

Mr T does not approve. 






Rickenbacker makes the greatest seven string guitars for shred  and Dean, although listed in my profile, are for fags.


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## Chris (Jul 17, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Make it some other color than red and it migh be decent. Can't tell if the 12th fret inlay is fugly or not though.



I like the headstock, but the lower horn, hell, the whole thing really, looks like one of those imitation JEMs on eBay right now. 

It looks like a cross between an older RG and a boring, uninspired custom shop job. The headstock even looks like an Ibby. Yuck.


----------



## Project2501 (Jul 18, 2006)

I think if you look at what I said early on in this thread about what his guitar would look like I was pretty close.



Project2501 said:


> Wow if you guys think Outworld is going to be big you are NUTZ!!!
> 
> His type of music is purely niche music these days. Blame MTV for that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris (Jul 18, 2006)

Pretty much spot-on.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris said:


> I like the headstock, but the lower horn, hell, the whole thing really, looks like one of those imitation JEMs on eBay right now.
> 
> It looks like a cross between an older RG and a boring, uninspired custom shop job. The headstock even looks like an Ibby. Yuck.



I dunno, it has potential, IMO. I don't care for the angled neck hum, or the red color, but that bound neck looks nice. Depends on price, how it plays, and other factors. 

I'm still hoping that this model will jumpstart other Dean 7 string ideas, like that Razorback V in a 7, or even 7 string versions of their '79 series.

Also: Drew might be talking about one of the Japanese Charvels released right before Fender bought Jackson. They were dinky shaped, with a unique fretboard/neck profile, JT580 trem, headstock like the old PC1, and Duncan pickups. They made a few different models, one being mahogany with a koa top. They were priced similar to an import Jackson, maybe a touch higher.

http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM02/Content/Charvel/PR/New-Charvel-Models.html


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## Chris (Jul 18, 2006)

Meh, I think it sucks. I'll take a 7620 over a guitar that looks like that.


----------



## Shawn (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris said:


> Meh, I think it sucks. I'll take a 7620 over a guitar that looks like that.


 His custom RG and his GN behind him on the stand.


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris said:


> I like the headstock, but the lower horn, hell, the whole thing really, looks like one of those imitation JEMs on eBay right now.
> 
> It looks like a cross between an older RG and a boring, uninspired custom shop job. The headstock even looks like an Ibby. Yuck.


Take out the bottom nub (near the nut) of the headstock and it's almost spot-on to the ESP headstock, it looks nothing like an Ibanez one in comparison.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris said:


> Meh, I think it sucks. I'll take a 7620 over a guitar that looks like that.



Eh, it's another 7 string available on the market. As long as it's not a piece of shit, or overpriced as fuck, then I don't see a problem. 

If they had a bound neck version of the 7620 I would buy it.


----------



## jtm45 (Jul 18, 2006)

Looks like nothing more than Dean's attempt to copy an LACS style RG7 whilst also avoiding any copyright infringements.

Not really created "the 7 string equivalent of a Lamborghini" ,as promised,now have they!


----------



## Chris (Jul 18, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Take out the bottom nub (near the nut) of the headstock and it's almost spot-on to the ESP headstock, it looks nothing like an Ibanez one in comparison.



It's the same basic wedge-look. It looks more like the ESP, yes, but I still think it looks like an Ibby as well. I'm entitled to my opinion, so kindly go back to tossing your hair around.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 18, 2006)

Whats the price gonna be on the produciton models? i'd buy one! lol


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 18, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> Whats the price gonna be on the produciton models? i'd buy one! lol



They need to make a white one.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 18, 2006)

I agree with Chris. It looks like an Ibanez RG/Sabre headstock.


----------



## Drew (Jul 18, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Take out the bottom nub (near the nut) of the headstock and it's almost spot-on to the ESP headstock, it looks nothing like an Ibanez one in comparison.




Yeah, but leave it there, and it looks like an Ibby with the tip cut off on an angle. 

"Ibanez" was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the headstock, too. I figure this deal won't last the year. :/


----------



## Mark. A (Jul 18, 2006)

I think some of you might be a bit Ibanez biased 

I reckon it's friggen sweet, I'd prefer a better colour but it does look nice.


----------



## Shannon (Jul 18, 2006)

People are _still _talking about this?


----------



## Chris (Jul 18, 2006)

Read the last two pages.


----------



## darren (Jul 18, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Take out the bottom nub (near the nut) of the headstock and it's almost spot-on to the ESP headstock, it looks nothing like an Ibanez one in comparison.


To me, it looks like the Ibanez headstock with the "beak" sheared off at an angle.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 18, 2006)

Shit, I might like it. Who said it was going to be anything other than what it is? It all depends on the price and availability now.


----------



## NDG (Jul 18, 2006)

I think it looks fine, but not my color.


----------



## Allen Garrow (Jul 18, 2006)

It's not to bad, I actually like the headstock it's sort of a Ibanez meets ESP thing..... With all do respect, I absolutely hate the V style headstocks that Deans have. They look ok on the Dimebag models but that's about it.

~A


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 18, 2006)

I like it, other than the angled pickups. It's an RG/Soloist hybrid, which is what I expected. The lower horn's kinda skinny, though...


----------



## zak (Jul 18, 2006)

Its cool


----------



## Rick (Jul 18, 2006)

Not bad.


----------



## Project2501 (Jul 18, 2006)

If the fretboard was angled to match the pickup it would look better.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 18, 2006)

Project2501 said:


> If the fretboard was angled to match the pickup it would look better.



I strongly agree.

The bottom cut-away dosn't bother me as much as the color does.

It reminds me of a cheap action figure or something.


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

Boy does that headstock look familiar. Where oh where have I seen it before...


----------



## jtm45 (Jul 18, 2006)

I think the background of that Rusty pic speaks a thousand words.(Ibanez,Conklin,Ibanez......oh,and a new Dean! )

He just wants to get what the fuck he can out of whoever will give it to him and then move on to the next one.

The un-tucked t-shirt must be part of his new endorsement clothing stipulations (i'm sure i read *somewhere* that this is part of a guitar endorsement).


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 18, 2006)

jtm45 said:


> The un-tucked t-shirt must be part of his new endorsement clothing stipulations (i'm sure i read *somewhere* that this is part of a guitar endorsement).



 Bite me. Like I told Shannon, so I'm a whiny bitch today. Deal with it.


----------



## David (Jul 18, 2006)

If that red guitar is the Dean, then that's what I want to see! The only reason why I've never thought about buying a Dean, is because they never have guitars like that available to buy.


----------



## NDG (Jul 18, 2006)

Is the jack where I think it is?


----------



## guitarjitsumaster (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah I think the color could have been better, but somehow it makes it look affordable I hope $$$.

I heard from someone who played it that the body was nice and light. Those lower horns annoy me the way they annoy rusty so though it may looks somewhat disproportionate is says comfort too me. I just hope that inspires them to do some production 7's. The more 7's in production the better.


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

Lemme try this again...










Does anyone notice that the Dean headstock is almost exactly the same (it's not reversed)?


----------



## Drew (Jul 18, 2006)

noodles said:


> Lemme try this again...
> 
> Does anyone notice that the Dean headstock is almost exactly the same (it's not reversed)?



No - we're too busy fighting about if it looks more like an Ibby or an ESP to listen to anything as boring as "logic."  


Kidding aside, they are actually uncannily similar...


----------



## NDG (Jul 18, 2006)

Pretty much. 

The Dean Logo looks kind of odd on that guitar.


----------



## BinaryTox1n (Jul 18, 2006)

noodles said:


> Lemme try this again...
> 
> Does anyone notice that the Dean headstock is almost exactly the same (it's not reversed)?



it's _exactly_ the same, just not reversed


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 18, 2006)

noodles said:


> Does anyone notice that the Dean headstock is almost exactly the same (it's not reversed)?



The Dean looks like it's a little wider, but other than that, they're damn close.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 18, 2006)

It's not exactly the most original head stock style to begin with.


----------



## David (Jul 18, 2006)

I just realized, he's using his new amps and cabs in that pic. I liked his Bogner and mesa's...


----------



## Donnie (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah, he's using those Diamond amps or something. Hopefully he can get them to sound better than the clips on the Diamond amps site.


----------



## David (Jul 18, 2006)

Donnie said:


> Yeah, he's using those Diamond amps or something. Hopefully he can get them to sound better than the clips on the Diamond amps site.


yeah, those were fucking horrible. Very clicky and raw sounding, where he had a pretty warm and smooth tone before. 

In his outworld solo clip, I think he was using those amps, and you could tell that his sound had changed...


----------



## Donnie (Jul 18, 2006)

Which clip it that? Show me!


----------



## David (Jul 18, 2006)

you've probably seen it before, but just to refresh your memory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKG8YW_Ujw&search=rusty cooley

The first solo was in an outworld clip from last time, and everything is a lot sharper in this video, but a lot more trebly and clicky.


----------



## Samer (Jul 18, 2006)

i would buy that guitar, it looks cool, it would be better if it has 27 frets, espicaly since the pick up is angeled


----------



## Donnie (Jul 18, 2006)

David said:


> you've probably seen it before, but just to refresh your memory:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKG8YW_Ujw&search=rusty cooley
> 
> The first solo was in an outworld clip from last time, and everything is a lot sharper in this video, but a lot more trebly and clicky.


Oh yeah.... I remember that. Thanks.


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

Mahathera said:


> The Dean Logo looks kind of odd on that guitar.



This logo would look better:


----------



## ajdath (Jul 18, 2006)

i dont like the new dean im kinda disapointed according to what it was written in his site i thought that i will see the ultimate 7 strings guitar look and sound, for look its bellow standard sound i dont know yet. but for sure its not better than his ibanez


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

ajdath said:


> i dont like the new dean im kinda disapointed according to what it was written in his site i thought that i will see the ultimate 7 strings guitar look and sound, for look its bellow standard sound i dont know yet. but for sure its not better than his ibanez



I wouldn't count on that. Go play a USA Dean and tell me what you think. I don't think anything out of LACS could touch one. There is a good reason they cost three grand.


----------



## NDG (Jul 18, 2006)

The US models are great.

I don't find their imports to be horrendous either. My AV7 plays fairly well. All it really needs is some new tuners and pickups (too bad I messed it up when I was removing the string ferrules.  ) I haven't heard too many complaints about the evo 7s too.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 18, 2006)

Dean's import line is one of the better ones.

Their USAs are to die for, if they're your thing. I've certainly not seen anything that was better made, only equal.


----------



## ajdath (Jul 18, 2006)

noodles said:


> I wouldn't count on that. Go play a USA Dean and tell me what you think. I don't think anything out of LACS could touch one. There is a good reason they cost three grand.


so what they cost 3 grands?!! you think the more expensive the better??
and i did try the usa dean nice guitars but for sure im not paying 3 shitts for that its just fucking over priced i can get twice better guitar custom made with 2 grands!! and by the way except angelo and now rusty no shreaders are playing the dean most of them ibanez but even rusty was ibanez man dean is more comercial company for me its just about the look and style


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

>





This opinion was based on me playing two Deans and six PRS's, all in one sitting. The Deans played better, balanced better, had better finish, and sounded better than the PRS's.

Plus, the Dean had ebony and a bound neck, which are two things that PRS will not do.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 18, 2006)

Uh, Rusty was Jackson's man before that, and Conklin's, too.

There's NO WAY, however, Dean is a more commerical company than Ibanez. They have a long history of, uh, flashy advertising, but they don't throw money and freebies at endorsers like Ibanez does.

You may be able to get a better custom made guitar in Poland for two grand, but not in the U.S.


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

ajdath said:


> so what they cost 3 grands?!! you think the more expensive the better?? and i did try the usa dean nice guitars but for sure im not paying 3 shitts for that its just fucking over priced i can get twice better guitar custom made with 2 grands!! and by the way except angelo and now rusty no shreaders are playing the dean most of them ibanez but even rusty was ibanez man dean is more comercial company for me its just about the look and style



No, I don't. My KxK is around two grand, and packs the lunch of the three or four LACS Ibanezes I got to play. If I want the Ibanez "look and style", I'll just pick up one of my Jacksons, since that is who Ibanez stole it from.


----------



## ajdath (Jul 18, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Uh, Rusty was Jackson's man before that, and Conklin's, too.
> 
> There's NO WAY, however, Dean is a more commerical company than Ibanez. They have a long history of, uh, flashy advertising, but they don't throw money and freebies at endorsers like Ibanez does.
> 
> You may be able to get a better custom made guitar in Poland for two grand, but not in the U.S.


so what if you cant get better one in the USA its not end of the world you can get your custom from poland or where ever you want just you need to pay extra for shipping. and i didnt mean to insult dean or thier players i just meant if i can get better guitar made specially for me for cheaper price do i have to pay more for less quality just because it has DEAN JACKON IBANEZ what ever on it?? 
if your paying over 1000$ for a aguitar you better look for quality and sound not name because its wasting of money, and this is why im going for custom and i left my ibanez even i dig the wizard2


----------



## noodles (Jul 18, 2006)

ajdath said:


> i just meant if i can get better guitar made specially for me for cheaper price do i have to pay more for less quality just because it has DEAN JACKON IBANEZ what ever on it??



You don't have to convince me, since my guitar is built by a small builder and is totally custom.


----------



## Allen Garrow (Jul 18, 2006)

The headstock shape is growing on me,, but the Dean logo sort of throws it all off?
It will be interesting to see how it all works out. I wonder if he will be selling off the Conklin and Ibanez now?

~A


----------



## Adam (Jul 19, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Make it some other color than red and it migh be decent. Can't tell if the 12th fret inlay is fugly or not though.


Weird, the guitar I was "making" at Jacksons Custom shop turned out just like this, same color, but no inlays on an ebony fretboard, with black binding on the body, I was going to buy it but it came out to $3800, but I would def. buy this one, looks to have better fret access too


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 19, 2006)

I HATE that colour and lower horn!! Surely he can get better upper fret access without making the lower half of his guitar look stupid. And why is the headstock and neck bound and not the body 

After the amazingly sexy work of art his ibanez was, this is a big dissapointment for me  Looks like a cheesy 80's shred guitar.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 19, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> I HATE that colour and lower horn!! Surely he can get better upper fret access without making the lower half of his guitar look stupid. And why is the headstock and neck bound and not the body
> 
> After the amazingly sexy work of art his ibanez was, this is a big dissapointment for me  Looks like a cheesy 80's shred guitar.



Um, am I missing something here? His Ibanez didn't have body binding, and the Ibanez RG is almost the definition of 80's shred guitar.


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 19, 2006)

uh.....






That looks like a binding to me.  
And that guitar is far sleeker and modern looking than the dean.And it has piezos


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 19, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> uh.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, maybe it did...  But the RG is still an 1986-87 design. 

Binding is more important on the neck, where it affects the feel of the guitar, IMO. Body is just cosmetic. I'd rather see the neck pickup come back to straight, and some other color. The horn isn't that bad, really.


----------



## shredfreak (Jul 19, 2006)

Love the looks of that dean he has

Startin to get serious GAS for it


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 19, 2006)

Well I agree with you on most of those points. I love body bindings though  

Im sure the guitar plays amazing (if its to keep rusty happy) but it would be good if they got it looking a bit more cosmetically pleasing before they brought it out. Hell, I might even buy one.


----------



## noodles (Jul 19, 2006)

Neck binding is far more important than body binding. Bound bodies look best when they have a carved top, since it is used to hide the joint between the top wood and the body wood. Without a carved top, I prefer the the smooth, rounded look. How many bound Strat shapes do you see, anyway? Body binding is more from the Gibson school of thought.


----------



## darren (Jul 19, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> Surely he can get better upper fret access without making the lower half of his guitar look stupid.


I've been saying the same thing about the Ibanez RG since i first saw it. The lower horn is disproportionately thin compared to the upper one.


----------



## Chris (Jul 19, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Okay, maybe it did...  But the RG is still an 1986-87 design.



Who cares, the RG shape is timeless.


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 19, 2006)

noodles said:


> Neck binding is far more important than body binding. Bound bodies look best when they have a carved top, since it is used to hide the joint between the top wood and the body wood. Without a carved top, I prefer the the smooth, rounded look. How many bound Strat shapes do you see, anyway? Body binding is more from the Gibson school of thought.



Meh, each to their own I guess.To my eyes body bindings add a nice ornamentation to plain finishes. Even on flat top guitars.



darren said:


> I've been saying the same thing about the Ibanez RG since i first saw it. The lower horn is disproportionately thin compared to the upper one.



Yeah but theres disproportionate....and theres disproportionate


----------



## noodles (Jul 19, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> Meh, each to their own I guess.To my eyes body bindings add a nice ornamentation to plain finishes. Even on flat top guitars.



That's exactly what it is. I personally like the look of Strat shapes without binding. No big deal.

Now, on this shape...


----------



## W4D (Jul 19, 2006)

noodles said:


> Lemme try this again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




dean is pretty much using teh same ead stock they used on my original dean z from way back when


----------



## David (Jul 19, 2006)

sound and playability > looks... for all you haters.


----------



## Kotex (Jul 19, 2006)

That looks like utter shit. I don't like anything about it.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 19, 2006)

W4D said:


> dean is pretty much using teh same ead stock they used on my original dean z from way back when




Yeah they used that on their more normal shaped guitars for as long as i can remember.


----------



## jacksonplayer (Jul 19, 2006)

David said:


> sound and playability > looks... for all you haters.





All the criticism sounds like a buncha little girls going shoe-shopping. 

I'd be curious to try one--if it's a USA Dean, I would expect an Original Floyd Rose rather than a TRS trem, however.


----------



## Shredrrr (Jul 19, 2006)

Thats like trading in your brand new corvette for a kia


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 19, 2006)

Err...well sorry but surely we're allowed to comment on whether or not we like the looks of a particular guitar, especially seeing as it will apparently be a production model very soon. Theres hundreds of threads with content like this, why am I suddenly getting shit for saying that if I was to spend my hard earned money on it there would be a couple of things I'd like to change????


----------



## NDG (Jul 19, 2006)

You surely are.

I'm just thinking people would have a whole different perspective if Ibanez was branded on the headstock and it was galaxy black, gray nickel, or royal blue.


----------



## Kotex (Jul 19, 2006)

I wouldn't. I still wouldn't like (the way it looked). But it probably plays good.


----------



## MetalMike (Jul 19, 2006)

Kotex said:


> But it probably plays good.



yea but thats besides the point. If I play publically with a guitar that sounds and plays good thats great. But if it looks like it came out of the transformers section at toys r us not so much


----------



## Kotex (Jul 19, 2006)

Oh, yeah, i agree 100%. If you read my other post you can see I don't like the way it looks.I think it's ugly as fuck. And the color is some kinda of red orange paste shit. I wouldn't buy it, because I would like to have a guitar that sounds good and looks good.


----------



## David (Jul 19, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> Err...well sorry but surely we're allowed to comment on whether or not we like the looks of a particular guitar, especially seeing as it will apparently be a production model very soon. Theres hundreds of threads with content like this, why am I suddenly getting shit for saying that if I was to spend my hard earned money on it there would be a couple of things I'd like to change????


Err... well surely I'm not allowed to say that I don't care what it looks like, and I just look for how it plays and sounds. I'm sorry, I'll keep my opinions to myself so it doesn't clash with yours.


I was just stating my opinion too dude.

not to mention I like how it looks.


----------



## Adam (Jul 19, 2006)

David said:


> sound and playability > looks... for all you haters.






David said:


> Err... well surely I'm not allowed to say that I don't care what it looks like, and I just look for how it plays and sounds. I'm sorry, I'll keep my opinions to myself so it doesn't clash with yours.
> not to mention I like how it looks.


 
and to add I love cheesy 80's shred guitars   
I also judge guitars on playability and sounds, and since I like the way Rusty's guitar looks it just a plus for me To each their own I guess.....


----------



## nyck (Jul 19, 2006)

I like pretty much everything about it. I'd buy one if the price is right. No tone knob=sweet.


----------



## Adam (Jul 19, 2006)

And ya just got to love where the volume knob and P/U selector are placed


----------



## Cancer (Jul 19, 2006)

Chris said:


> I like the headstock, but the lower horn, hell, the whole thing really, looks like one of those imitation JEMs on eBay right now.
> 
> It looks like a cross between an older RG and a boring, uninspired custom shop job. The headstock even looks like an Ibby. Yuck.




I like it, and it may be a prototype still, which means future models could have some refinements.

But yes, score one for Dean. Now lets see what the production jobs look like.


----------



## Toshiro (Jul 19, 2006)

Chris said:


> Who cares, the RG shape is timeless.



Yeah, yeah, I own RGs. 



Mahathera said:


> You surely are.
> 
> I'm just thinking people would have a whole different perspective if Ibanez was branded on the headstock and it was galaxy black, gray nickel, or royal blue.




I want white, white I say, white! I'm sick of all these dark color guitars!


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 19, 2006)

David said:


> Err... well surely I'm not allowed to say that I don't care what it looks like, and I just look for how it plays and sounds. I'm sorry, I'll keep my opinions to myself so it doesn't clash with yours.
> 
> 
> I was just stating my opinion too dude.
> ...



Well if you had said something like

"I like it, I'll take playabillity over looks as that is far more important to me" in the comment he was responding to then I would say you stated your opinion in a way that did not deserve to be rebutted.

But you said "for all you haters" which made your comment sound much more chastising.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 19, 2006)

Mahathera said:


> and it was galaxy black, gray nickel, or royal blue.




I actually think the color is the coolest part.. it photographs like a sort of slightly washed out Roadflare red, which i would totally buy if it were a roadflare red color.


----------



## MetalMike (Jul 19, 2006)

I love Rusty but I think they could call this color "Power Ranger Red"







 for dean for coming out with a new 7 but compared to Rusty's Ibanez this looks like a toy. I'm sure the playability is incredible though. Sometimes you have to sacrifice looks for playability and I guess thats exactly what Rusty did here. It would be cool though if they released this in both his Ibanez's blue color and his Jackson's natural finish. That IMO would make a Rusty Cooley signature guitar much more authentic in every way. Then again, this is only a prototype and he could gain an esp endorsment and drop dean tomorrow for all we know.


----------



## zak (Jul 19, 2006)

http://www.outworldband.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=74

more pics of it in action. That looks a lot like his Ibanez LACS....


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 20, 2006)

12th fret says <R-C>


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 20, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> Well if you had said something like
> 
> "I like it, I'll take playabillity over looks as that is far more important to me" in the comment he was responding to then I would say you stated your opinion in a way that did not deserve to be rebutted.
> 
> But you said "for all you haters" which made your comment sound much more chastising.



thankyou. Thats all I was getting at.

Have to say, it has grown a little on me after looking at those other pics. That colour though.......


----------



## Alpo (Jul 20, 2006)

That picture is obviously taken with a flash, which everyone who has ever done any serious photography knows that makes everything look like crap. The plasticy power ranger look is caused by the flash. Check out the photos on the Outworld forum, that's more like what the color actually looks like. It looks like a deep red. I love that color.


----------



## Naren (Jul 20, 2006)

zak said:


> http://www.outworldband.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=74
> 
> more pics of it in action. That looks a lot like his Ibanez LACS....



It actually looks pretty cool in some of the pics in that thread.


----------



## darren (Jul 20, 2006)

Those pics came from the Dean forum, where there are more pics of Outworld playing, with some commentary from someone who's actually played the prototype.

http://www.deanguitars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23823


----------



## Mark. A (Jul 20, 2006)

It's getting better everytime I see it, but I agree with whoever said it before, we need it to be white


----------



## darren (Jul 20, 2006)

That logo looks totally ill-suited to the headstock, though. I wonder if they'll be changing it for the production model.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 20, 2006)

darren said:


> That logo looks totally ill-suited to the headstock, though. I wonder if they'll be changing it for the production model.



I'd think they'd use the same stylized "Dean" that they used on their Soloist clones a few years ago. Maybe Rusty requested the wings?


----------



## Drew (Jul 20, 2006)

darren said:


> That logo looks totally ill-suited to the headstock, though. I wonder if they'll be changing it for the production model.



Darren, you may be Mr. Negative Pants, but in general you have pretty good taste. I'm with you. 

Also, that's definitely some sort of metallic red, and not a Road Flare. Could it be a metallic neon red? Maybe, but it looks more like a ruby in some of those shadowed pics.


----------



## Rick (Jul 20, 2006)

I like the Ibanez much better.


----------



## darren (Jul 20, 2006)

Drew said:


> Darren, you may be Mr. Negative Pants, but in general you have pretty good taste. I'm with you.
> 
> Also, that's definitely some sort of metallic red, and not a Road Flare. Could it be a metallic neon red? Maybe, but it looks more like a ruby in some of those shadowed pics.


I'm not negative... just opinionated and realistic. 

Keep in mind that half of those shots are blown out by the camera's flash, and the other half are under coloured stage lights, so you probably won't get a good sense for what the colour _really_ is until it's been properly photographed.


----------



## Drew (Jul 20, 2006)

rg7420user said:


> I like the Ibanez much better.



Now THERE's a shocker.  

Yeah, ditto here - I think that's why I agree with you, Darren.


----------



## noodles (Jul 20, 2006)

darren said:


> Keep in mind that half of those shots are blown out by the camera's flash, and the other half are under coloured stage lights, so you probably won't get a good sense for what the colour _really_ is until it's been properly photographed.



Add to that the fact that red does not photograph well at all.

Looking at the additional photos, it appears to be an Ibby trem. I'm assuming that the production model will come with an OFR7 (if it is USA) or Dean's copy (if it is an import).

Looking at the additional photos, it appears to be an Ibby trem. I'm assuming that the production model will come with an OFR7 (if it is USA) or Dean's copy (if it is an import).

I can't believe the amount of Dean bashing that is happening in this thread. I guess most of you have never played a nice one, or are too young to remember how fucking awesome the original ones were.


----------



## Nik (Jul 20, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> 12th fret says <R-C>



if they make a production run of these, they'd better take that out...

Here's to hoping that they make an 8 out of this


----------



## Rick (Jul 20, 2006)

Drew said:


> Now THERE's a shocker.



What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## BinaryTox1n (Jul 20, 2006)

Nik said:


> if they make a production run of these, they'd better take that out...


That's much better than a giant K-7 spanning 3 frets,
or the ungodly SEVEN.


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## Mr. S (Jul 20, 2006)

noodles said:


> I can't believe the amount of Dean bashing that is happening in this thread. I guess most of you have never played a nice one, or are too young to remember how fucking awesome the original ones were.



deans are absoloutly fantastic, i nearly bought one actually but chose an ibby over it because it had a trem.
but i think alot of the negative comments are because it kinda looks... well... cheap, at a glance at least, now this is most likely not going to be true at all, in true dean fashion i bet it plays like a dream.. but that lower horn is rather unsightly and the logo dosent really work with the headstock and like you said the red hasnt photographed particually well, so unfortunatly looks are all we have to go on, but im sure rusty wouldnt mind coming over to all our places and showing us how much his new guitar rules


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## jacksonplayer (Jul 20, 2006)

Everybody's getting so worked up over what shade of red the damned thing is...I presume the production version will come in more than one color.

If it had a fixed bridge, I'd be all over it, even if it was bubblegum pink. Unfortunately, Floyds aren't my thing anymore.


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## Drew (Jul 20, 2006)

noodles said:


> I can't believe the amount of Dean bashing that is happening in this thread. I guess most of you have never played a nice one, or are too young to remember how fucking awesome the original ones were.



Never played a dean - I'm witholding judgement until I do. I don't like the physical appearance of the design, but that's hardly the end of the world if the guitar itself kicks ass, which it very well might.


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 20, 2006)

noodles said:


> I can't believe the amount of Dean bashing that is happening in this thread. I guess most of you have never played a nice one, or are too young to remember how fucking awesome the original ones were.



Agreed. I've owned a Dean since I was fifteen, and it rocks.


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## bostjan (Jul 20, 2006)

I'm going to be an asshole and state an overgeneralized observation:

If that guitar said "Ibanez" on the headstock, half of all the "that looks stupid"-type comments would be "that looks awesome, I want one"-type.

Man, it does not look that bad. What is wrong with y'all? Personally, I can't wait to try one out. I doubt I'll buy one, but it's a fricken seven string guitar with a locking trem and active pickups. No serious cosmetic flaws, and even a nicebound ebony board with one small inlay.

I know you can't please all of the people all of the time, but gosh, there's just about enough negative energy in this thread to cause damage to my computer.


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## David (Jul 20, 2006)

noodles said:


> I can't believe the amount of Dean bashing that is happening in this thread. I guess most of you have never played a nice one, or are too young to remember how fucking awesome the original ones were.


Me either, because I think they build solid guitars, just not with the features I like. I've never had the chance to play one of their shred-worthy guitars, and I'd probably love it... such as Rusty's.


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## giannifive (Jul 20, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I'm going to be an asshole and state an overgeneralized observation:
> 
> If that guitar said "Ibanez" on the headstock, half of all the "that looks stupid"-type comments would be "that looks awesome, I want one"-type.
> 
> Man, it does not look that bad. What is wrong with y'all?


The lower horn looks disproportionately small compared to the upper one, the neck pickup had to be angled due to the deep treble-side cutaway and IMHO looks silly, the inlay is a gaudy "RC" (reminds me of RC Cola), and the color is puke-worthy. I could care less what it says on the headstock; I just don't like the looks of it.


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## bostjan (Jul 20, 2006)

Well, the lower horn is supposed to be smaller on this style of guitar, exactly what proportion is it supposed to be? The guitar is red. Red is one of the most popular solid colors for guitars. Many electrics have angled pickups.

I'm not saying you should like it. You can hate it all you want, but the color is not puke-worthy, and as for the silliness of the design, I guess telecasters and strats were silly designs, too? I'm sorry if I seem defensive, but I'm just making the same sorts of overgeneralized remarks everyone else is making in this thread.

I agree that this is no ultra-cool new design that makes people say "holy crap, that's awesome," but then neither are any of Ibanez's RG7's currently available in the USA.


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## David (Jul 20, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I'm going to be an asshole and state an overgeneralized observation:
> 
> If that guitar said "Ibanez" on the headstock, half of all the "that looks stupid"-type comments would be "that looks awesome, I want one"-type.
> 
> ...


didn't see that before... +1


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## Elysian (Jul 20, 2006)

i like the angled pickup, after building the superstrat i built, i wouldn't mind doing it more often, it has a really cool sound. i'd probably not angle it as severely as the SS7 on the next incarnation, but still..


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## Mastodon (Jul 20, 2006)

"ZOMG THIS GUITAR ROXORS!!!"

"NUH UH THIS GUITAR LOOKS LIKE TEH SHITERZ I DON"T LIKE IT!"

"WHAT!?! TAKE THAT BACK NOW!"

"NO YOU TAKE IT BACK!"

"Take WHAT back!?"

"Dis Guitar DOES NOT ROXORS MY SOXORS nd U SAID IT ROXORS WITCH MEANS U THINK I AM WRONG ABOUT IT!"

"BUT IT ROXORS MY SOXORS Nd U r teh faGGOt 4 not licking it!"

"BUTT MUNCHER!"

"That's it! Let's setter this with kick ball!"

"You're on Jimmy!"

"Prepare 4 pwnage u n00b"

"Psh, I'm uber 1337, U can't touch this"


----------



## David (Jul 20, 2006)

mastodon, you're beginning to scare me. Almost all your posts this past week have been you talking to yourself.


----------



## Mastodon (Jul 20, 2006)

"Yesss....my precious....they won't take away our precious...yesss...."


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## bostjan (Jul 20, 2006)

&#8230; 

I call dips on Rusty's Conklin eight!


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## noodles (Jul 21, 2006)

giannifive said:


> The lower horn looks disproportionately small compared to the upper one, the neck pickup had to be angled due to the deep treble-side cutaway and IMHO looks silly, the inlay is a gaudy "RC" (reminds me of RC Cola), and the color is puke-worthy. I could care less what it says on the headstock; I just don't like the looks of it.












Here is Rusty's Jackson Custom Shop Soloist 7. Notice the angled neck pickup and smaller lower horn? Rusty *wanted* it that way. Jackson gave it to him. Dean gave it to him. Ibanez did not. To me, it's pretty obvious why he's not with Ibanez anymore.

Ibanez is just a large company that churns out cookie cutter instruments, and barely do anything for their artists. They made Korn U bars. They put a handle in Vai's guitar. They throw some mirror pickguards on things. Rusty's had a flip flop color. Woopty fucking do. I remember when they made Vai a big heart shaped guitar with necks sticking out all over the place. I remember when they inlaid a bunch of cut mirror pieces on Paul Stanley's Iceman, so it looked like a huge shattered mirror. I remember when they showed the world the first seven string electric. Ibanez is boring now, and they're sitting on their laurels.

I think the point everyone is missing is Rusty requested a guitar to be built to his specifications, not yours. Don't like it? Don't buy one. I thought people around here would be more excited about a new seven hitting the scene, and possibly the market in the future. If not, go back to sucking Ibanez's dick on the hopes that an eight will see the light of day.


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## Toshiro (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> They put a handle in Vai's guitar.



Um, not that I don't agree with the "resting on their laurels" aspect, but they built the JEM/RG body for Vai. It did not exist before him. Without Vai the RG-series would look like the Roadstars still.

The fact that Rusty's still hauling around 2 RGs defeats your whole arguement though, IMO.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm not going to get into the "Ibanez roolz/sucks", but Dave has a point - that Dean is a virtual clone of his Jackson.

Maybe he likes them all for different reasons? Regardless, I'm sure Dean built him exactly what he wanted. I'm also equally sure we won't see it as a production model - at most, a limited run that's similar. Why would Dean bother? There's not enough of a high-end 7 string market to do more than a limited run of anything...


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## Drew (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> Looking at the additional photos, it appears to be an Ibby trem. I'm assuming that the production model will come with an OFR7 (if it is USA) or Dean's copy (if it is an import).



I thought that at first, but the more I look the more it looks like something different: 






For starters, it's clearly not an Edge Pro 7. I can't tell if it's a pop-in or screw in bar in this lighting, but look at the position of the trem knife edge - on an Ibanez, the body of the trem basically envelops the post - it juts forward on either side so that the edge of the trem is level with the saddles. This one has the edge a bit further back, more like a Lo-TRS or a liscensed or possibly original floyd. Tough to say for certain, but even just going off that picture I'd put money on the fact that it's not a Lo-Pro 7 we're seeing there. 

So, as it's clearly some sort of low profile Floyd, I'm wondering 1.) Does Floyd Rose make a low-profile seven string trem, 2.) Does anyone, and 3.) Could this be a Dean original? Sure, that's a stretch, but if so mad props for Rusty. 

I still can't get into the looks of the thing - the difference between his Jackson and this is that the lower horn on the jackson is angled for better access, while this one is flat and just much deeper. Also, the deeper route seems to necessitate the angled neck pickup (mentally reposition it to straight and see where the pickup edge ends up) which is kind of a turnoff for me... But I still would love to give one a try.


----------



## eaeolian (Jul 21, 2006)

^ It looks like a TRS/Takeguchi to me - it looks like it has the "licensed under patents from Floyd Rose" across the tailpiece under the fine tuners, for one thing, and it has that general look.

Floyd does not make a lo-profle 7 string trem that I know of. (Edit: I was wrong about Schaller).

The pickup wouldn't need to be angled if EMG just made normal-sized 7 string humbuckers.


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## jacksonplayer (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> Ibanez is just a large company that churns out cookie cutter instruments, and barely do anything for their artists. They made Korn U bars. They put a handle in Vai's guitar. They throw some mirror pickguards on things. Rusty's had a flip flop color. Woopty fucking do. I remember when they made Vai a big heart shaped guitar with necks sticking out all over the place. I remember when they inlaid a bunch of cut mirror pieces on Paul Stanley's Iceman, so it looked like a huge shattered mirror. I remember when they showed the world the first seven string electric. Ibanez is boring now, and they're sitting on their laurels.



Amen, brother!  

Ibanez has gotten incredibly conservative and cheap in the last decade. They've gradually been watering down the RG series since the mid-'90s, to the point that only the highest-end ones are stuff that most accomplished players would want. It wasn't that way in 1990.

And they've basically abandoned ship on the seven-string guitar. I doubt we'll ever see a new or improved seven from them, and I'm damn sure we'll never see an 8+ string production guitar from them.


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## noodles (Jul 21, 2006)

Drew said:


> I thought that at first, but the more I look the more it looks like something different:



I hadn't seen that photograph yet, which probably shows the best shot of the bridge. Mike's right, it's definately not a real Floyd, but I agree that it is probably not an Ibanez trem, either.

Odds are Rusty only plays LoPro trems, so Dean got them the best that they had access to. I kinda doubt Ibanez would sell Dean or Rusty a trem.  



> I still can't get into the looks of the thing - the difference between his Jackson and this is that the lower horn on the jackson is angled for better access, while this one is flat and just much deeper. Also, the deeper route seems to necessitate the angled neck pickup (mentally reposition it to straight and see where the pickup edge ends up) which is kind of a turnoff for me... But I still would love to give one a try.



The scalloping work in the cutaway on the Jackson goes a long way towards smoothing out the look of the lower horn. It makes everything look bigger. Without it, it just looks strange.

Either way, I remeber when Steve Vai did this to his guitar:






This later became the template for the RG (as Toshiro said), with the extra deep cutaways. I thought they were hideous looking with the thin horns and sharp points, but I eventually grew used to looking at them. Rusty is another guy like Vai: form follows function for him, so I'm sure he could care less about how it looks, as long as it performs exactly the way he wants it to.


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## Allen Garrow (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah man, I hate to say it, but I do agree. Granted the prestige are sweet as hell,,,,but back in the late 80's early 90's Ibanez's were hot rods at most all levels. 7's seem to be on the rise again, so hopefully it may spark a new start someday. I just hope it doesn't first come to the dropping of the line before it is taken serious again. And the 8 strings,,,,never see it anytime soon,,, there are even less 8 players out there creating demand. The market is so saturated now with everyone going over seas to make ends meet. Hot rods will return when Shred becomes vogue again.....

~A


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## David (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> Rusty is another guy like Vai: form follows function for him, so I'm sure he could care less about how it looks, as long as it performs exactly the way he wants it to.


that's me too.=)


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## Drew (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> Odds are Rusty only plays LoPro trems, so Dean got them the best that they had access to. I kinda doubt Ibanez would sell Dean or Rusty a trem.



Though, don't be shocked if one day it has one - take another look at some of the non-promo pics of his Jackson.


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## noodles (Jul 21, 2006)

Drew said:


> Though, don't be shocked if one day it has one - take another look at some of the non-promo pics of his Jackson.



That always had an Ibby trem. He supplied Jackson with it when he ordered the guitar. I'm not sure of the time frame, but the OFR-7 might not have been available at the time it was built. I seem to recall Mike telling me that is why his Soloist has a fixed bridge: he won't settle for anything less than an OFR-7.


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## eaeolian (Jul 21, 2006)

noodles said:


> That always had an Ibby trem. He supplied Jackson with it when he ordered the guitar. I'm not sure of the time frame, but the OFR-7 might not have been available at the time it was built. I seem to recall Mike telling me that is why his Soloist has a fixed bridge: he won't settle for anything less than an OFR-7.



That's exactly correct - he ordered his before I ordered mine. In fact, I'm not sure the Takeguchi (I should really learn to spell that ) was available when he ordered his...


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## noodles (Jul 21, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Takeguchi (I should really learn to spell that )



Use the easy four-letter description instead.


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## David (Jul 21, 2006)

*cough* dean should do an 8 string *cough* for rusty *cough*


[action=David]is sneaky with the use of cough's like a 13 year old girl on AIM.[/action]


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## zak (Jul 21, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> "ZOMG THIS GUITAR ROXORS!!!"
> 
> "NUH UH THIS GUITAR LOOKS LIKE TEH SHITERZ I DON"T LIKE IT!"
> 
> ...




but I'm uber 1337...are you an imposter?


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## Mastodon (Jul 21, 2006)

Are you challenging me to a game of virtual solitaire?


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## Nick1 (Jul 21, 2006)

I dont like the looks of the dean. Id have stayed with Ibanez.


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## zak (Jul 21, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> Are you challenging me to a game of virtual solitaire?


I am actually THE worst solitaire player to will ever find. I practice all day at work, I am by far a strong contender for the World Cup of horrible Solitaire players.


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## BinaryTox1n (Jul 21, 2006)

I love it, personally.

I think if it had red sharkfin inlays and the other dean logo, it'd be damn near perfect.


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## Samer (Jul 21, 2006)

I like the way the guitar looks, i am going to get one if they become available


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## LEWY7777777 (Jul 21, 2006)

I like it. its not perfect but the tremelo action and neck profile he probably likes and thats what matters something comfortable he can use on stage. form follows function here folks and it does better than a ferrari more like an actual race car not an exotic road car. anyway goes along the lines of : I owned a camaro that would toast a ferrari down the quartermile.
Get Ferrari's going any faster on roads and it just crashes like any other car. 
But anyway maybe someone should try and build him an indy car- of guitars.
something rocket like and flies yet grounded enough it hooks with the curves.


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## skattabrain (Jul 21, 2006)

please, why do we even place 8 string and production in the same sentance. you can't count one hand how many eights would be sold to members of this board never mind the larger guitar audience ... the 8 string thing is not just a pipe dream ... it's a bad business decision for any company.


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## Mastodon (Jul 21, 2006)

zak said:


> I am actually THE worst solitaire player to will ever find. I practice all day at work, I am by far a strong contender for the World Cup of horrible Solitaire players.



Yeah I'm pretty shitty at it too. In a 1337 kind of way.


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## Nik (Jul 21, 2006)

skattabrain said:


> please, why do we even place 8 string and production in the same sentance. you can't count one hand how many eights would be sold to members of this board never mind the larger guitar audience ... the 8 string thing is not just a pipe dream ... it's a bad business decision for any company.



No.



I've said it before, and I'll say it again: there IS a market for an 8-string, just not for a $2000 8-string. People simply aren't willing to dish out that much money on an exotic instrument that they're not even sure if they'll be able to play. However, if you could make an 8 for, say, $500-600 I can tell you right now it'll sell fairly well because people would be more inclined to try it out. Will it be an amazing best-seller? No, the market for 8s is even smaller than the market for 7s, but I believe it's not much smaller because I'm sure many 7-stringers would be inclined to try more strings if they were available at an affordable price. Plus, more and more bands are using 8s, I do believe there can be a successful 8, we just have to wait and see.


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## giannifive (Jul 22, 2006)

noodles said:


> I remember when they inlaid a bunch of cut mirror pieces on Paul Stanley's Iceman, so it looked like a huge shattered mirror. I remember when they showed the world the first seven string electric. Ibanez is boring now, and they're sitting on their laurels.


This is all true. Ibanez doesn't seem to be progressing much, and it's kind of disappointing. However, that's completely independent of whether or not someone likes the RG shape. I happen to like it. I agree that it hasn't changed much in the 20 years since its inception (the only change was the block heel to AANJ), but so what? I'm happy with it and it works for me. It's a matter of taste. You don't have to agree with me.

My original post was in response to bostjan saying that if it said Ibanez on the headstock everyone would be loving it. My point was that even if it was made by Ibanez I wouldn't like it. There are many Ibanez body shapes I don't like, like the 540P (with the bigger lower horn), the old Roadstar, the XV, Iceman. There are a bunch more. But I happen to like the RG. Does that mean I'm an Ibanez fanboy? No. In fact, I think the fit and finish on their so-called Prestige axes is piss poor relative to companies like Ernie Ball Music Man. I also don't like their lack of options in their current guitar offerings. It's just that so far, among all guitars I've played, I've liked the Ibanez RGs the best.

It's just a matter of taste.


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## skattabrain (Jul 22, 2006)

Nik said:


> Plus, more and more bands are using 8s, I do believe there can be a successful 8, we just have to wait and see.



nik, who are the bands using 8's that are decent? i only know of mesuggah and frankly they sound EXACTLY the same as before.

do 8 string players like the extra range or do they like the different chord voicing / shape options? i kinda feel like the 7 opened up room for the low register ... where it could use a little depth, but lower than that or higher than the high E ... i just don't see why. but whatever, to each his own ... i'm good with 7.

ibanez rg has become a classic shape ... like the jackson v.

there will always be RG's but being a huge ibanez head, i eagerly await for every namm show only to be let down with lack of innovation ... heck ... lack of color options for that matter!


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## bostjan (Jul 22, 2006)

Dude, this is a Rusty Cooley thread, so might be stating the obvious, but Rusty uses an eight, but more often uses a seven. Dino plays an eight. There was talk about Stephen Carpenter looking for an eight, but I don't think he's been seen with one. Charlie hunter has used an eight string for a long time. Norwegian fusion-jazz guitarist Terje Rypdal also has had one for a while. Same with Bob Conti and Richard Scott. There are a lot of players, actually.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Jul 23, 2006)

I dont know if it was posted yet, but here is a video of Rusty playing the Dean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpEoqcQ6JU&search=rusty cooley


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## Adam (Jul 23, 2006)

Kickass, it sounds awesome too!, Still looks great on stage


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 23, 2006)

guitarjitsumaster said:


> I dont know if it was posted yet, but here is a video of Rusty playing the Dean
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpEoqcQ6JU&search=rusty cooley



Wow great video! I know we're talking about the guitar (which rocks BTW!) but that solo was great...Rusty's got a far better sense of phrasing and structure than people give him credit for.


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## Nik (Jul 23, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Dude, this is a Rusty Cooley thread, so might be stating the obvious, but Rusty uses an eight, but more often uses a seven. Dino plays an eight. There was talk about Stephen Carpenter looking for an eight, but I don't think he's been seen with one. Charlie hunter has used an eight string for a long time. Norwegian fusion-jazz guitarist Terje Rypdal also has had one for a while. Same with Bob Conti and Richard Scott. There are a lot of players, actually.



Exactly, and while that list isn't spectacular, the point I was trying to make is that more and more people are getting them and the list is slowly growing. Also, keep in mind many people haven't even HEARD of 8-string guitars, but would likely be pretty interested if they did.

And yes, since this is a Rusty thread, he is a prime example, alongside Meshuggah, Dino and Charlie. Rusty is slowly rising into prominence and every day more people enjoy/dislike his music, but the point is that he's getting somewhere, and he hasn't even released a 'digestable' album yet (his solo album can be heard to listen to at times, especially for non-musician people). The upcoming Outworld album is bound to do just that and expand his fan base in circles that typically listen to stuff like Symphony X, DT, etc. 

And not to mention that there was a rumour that Steve Vai was having an 8 built for him. 

Back on topic, I'm sure that Rusty's Dean is amazingly functional and plays great, but this comes at the expense of looks, IMO, and due to reasons listed in previous posts, it looks pretty fugly, but playability and sound tops looks at the end of the day and I'd love to give one a spin.


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jul 23, 2006)

^I doubt Vai would go for an 8 to be honest...I suspect it's just a rumour.

There was a Guitar World interview a while ago with Vai, Munky and Mike Einzinger (sp?) from Incubus, where he mentioned that he tried an 8, and reckoned it was too uncomfortable for him, and that he'd be sticking with 6s and 7s.


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## jtm45 (Jul 23, 2006)

This recently built Ibanez 8 was 'supposedly' meant to have been built for Vai but i've yet to have seen him pictured with it.






I don't think he's a big fan of EMG's either so i have my doubts,but stranger things have happened.
It really puzzles me why Ibanez decided on this (TRS based)trem design?

Perhaps it's because they're going to market it and didn't want the price to be too high,but then i doubt they'll release an 8 when they appear to have just about given up on the 7's these days.


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## Nik (Jul 23, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> ^I doubt Vai would go for an 8 to be honest...I suspect it's just a rumour.
> There was a Guitar World interview a while ago with Vai, Munky and Mike Einzinger (sp?) from Incubus, where he mentioned that he tried an 8, and reckoned it was too uncomfortable for him, and that he'd be sticking with 6s and 7s.



I agree; Vai doesn't even use his 7s anymore, that's why I said it was a rumour. Nonetheless, I threw it out there anyway.


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 23, 2006)

jtm45 said:


> This recently built Ibanez 8 was 'supposedly' meant to have been built for Vai but i've yet to have seen him pictured with it.



That guitar looks gorgeous...if Vai doesn't want the thing I'll have it! lol


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## jacksonplayer (Jul 23, 2006)

Nik said:


> I agree; Vai doesn't even use his 7s anymore, that's why I said it was a rumour. Nonetheless, I threw it out there anyway.



He used sevens on his most recent album, I believe. Though that was the first time in awhile that he'd done so.

I personally have no interest at all in an eight-string, but it would be cool if some company made a production one. I think some truly mainstream guitarist would have to start using one before it happened, in order to inspire enough players to want one. None of the guys currently using them can really be said to be in the mainstream to the point where Ibanez or ESP are going to become really interested.


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## Mastodon (Jul 23, 2006)

I'm just curious to what the 2nd part of his (Vai's) 3 part concept albulm will be like.

Though, I can't picture Vai using EMGs. Not to mention he already endorses DiMarzio.


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## Nik (Jul 23, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> I'm just curious to what the 2nd part of his (Vai's) 3 part concept albulm will be like.
> Though, I can't picture Vai using EMGs. Not to mention he already endorses DiMarzio.



Well, on the other hand, have you browsed through Vai's guitar collection on his site? I mean, this guy plays ALL sorts of weird, different guitars, with all sorts of different mods and things done to them, so apparently Vai likes experimenting with this stuff, so maybe an 8-string wouldn't be too surprising. And when you get an 8-string, your pick-up choices are very limited, so I can see him using EMGs if he finds them the most suitible out of all the choices.

jacksonplayer - are you sure? I didn't think there were any 7s on that CD, but then again, I haven't listened to it in a while.

But um, yeah, this thread got really off topic, and I suppose I'm partly to blame...


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## Kevan (Jul 23, 2006)

Heh heh.....
I talked with Rusty after his recent show in Austin during NAMM:
KEVAN: "Dude, there's a thread titled 'Rusty Moves To Dean' on SevenString.org. It's 22 pages long."
RUSTY: "22 pages?!!? Really? That's awesome! Tell those guys they rock!"


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## bostjan (Jul 24, 2006)

I wonder if he'd still say that if he read the thread?


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kevan said:


> Heh heh.....
> I talked with Rusty after his recent show in Austin during NAMM:
> KEVAN: "Dude, there's a thread titled 'Rusty Moves To Dean' on SevenString.org. It's 22 pages long."
> RUSTY: "22 pages?!!? Really? That's awesome! Tell those guys they rock!"


Hahaha, props to you Rusty \m/


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## Mastodon (Jul 24, 2006)

Yeah just don't tell him to read the thread.


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## David (Jul 24, 2006)

bostjan said:


> I wonder if he'd still say that if he read the thread?


has there been a lot of rusty hate'n in this thread? I thought it was just a Dean guitars Vs. Ibanez guitars deal.


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## bostjan (Jul 24, 2006)

Not so much hate as comments like "Rusty is stupid for doing this," or "Rusty is motivated to do this only by [insert tragic hero trait here]," or "Shred sucks-" type comments. And just a whole heluva lotta negativity.

Personally, I think it was a smart move, and I hope we see this as a production model. I like Rusty's playing and I love shred.

It's a sick world, but I'm a happy guy.


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## Adam (Jul 24, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Not so much hate as comments like "Rusty is stupid for doing this," or "Rusty is motivated to do this only by [insert tragic hero trait here]," or "Shred sucks-" type comments. And just a whole heluva lotta negativity.
> Personally, I think it was a smart move, and I hope we see this as a production model. I like Rusty's playing and I love shred.
> It's a sick world, but I'm a happy guy.


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## XEN (Jul 24, 2006)

Wow, 43 pages so far!

Yes, the lower horn is thinner in proportion to the upper one, and yes, the neck position EMG is angled sort of funny, and yes, the headstock is unoriginal, and yes, the color is, well, red, and yes, it looks exactly like his Jackson, and yes, it's not an Ibanez, but there are legitimate reasons for every point listed. Thin horn: upper fret access. Angled neck pickup: solidified neck join, and heelless neck. Headstock: who cares as long as it has 7 tuning gears on it? Color: who gives a freakin' crap? Obviously neither Jackson nor Ibanez were willing to work with him long term. The Dean is a SIGNATURE model in the making, not a custom one-off like the other guys made for him. If I were him I would go where they were willing to work with me too.

Don't knock the guy for brand hopping either. Think Marty Friedman, Jason Becker, Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth, Ty Tabor, Mick Thompson, Greg Tribett, John Petrucci, etc, etc, etc.

Brand names never influence my decision to purchase a guitar. I have 4 guitars from 4 different brands, 5 if you count the Michael Dolan custom neck on my S7420. The individual guitar has to appeal to me. That being said, every Dean I've played, even the cheapo imports, has been quite nice. Also, Dean made a signature model for Michael Schenker and I think that was beyond cool of them. It is high time that a company recognized him as the great guitarist he is. The commemorative Schenker brothers guitar is nice too, at least to look at as a collector piece. Dean seems to be about the guitarist not just about the $$$ they hope squeeze out of them. Being loyal to a brand that could care less about you as a person is just plain stupid. Case in point: Ibanez.

Also, to say that building an 8-string production model guitar is a bad business move is just plain false. Just because it has not been done yet does not mean that it will not work. I'm sure someone said the same thing when Ibanez was talking about making sevens. I, for one, have complete faith in the good reverend Waylon Ford to see to it that the Halo 8 string comes to life. When it does, I will be getting my hands on one as soon as I can. I fully intend on doing my part, whatever that may mean, to promote 8-string awareness to the huddled masses. There is a thread for this line of discussion....


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## Metal Ken (Jul 24, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpEoqcQ6JU&NR


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## Samer (Jul 24, 2006)

Man, the more i see that guitar the more i want one, i dont think its ugly at all. I dont see where you guys are coming from? 

Its look very cool!


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## Naren (Jul 24, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpEoqcQ6JU&NR



That guitar sounded pretty awesome in that clip. I might be focusing a lot on Rusty's playing itself, but I thought the guitar tone was cool too.


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## noodles (Jul 24, 2006)

That guitar looks much better in the video. You don't notice the lower horn as much when you're not looking at it straight on. Seeing how Rusty holds the neck with his left hand tells me everything I need to know about the shape of that horn and cutaway.


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## bostjan (Jul 24, 2006)

Hmm, is it just me, or does the strap seem to banlance the neck a little further away than most of what you see? I hope they make him an eight sometime soon.


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## noodles (Jul 24, 2006)

^I think it has to do with the horns relative to the neck. The deeper cutaways seem to move everything further towards the bridge, which means the fretboard is going to be shifted towards the left side of your body (closer to where a V hangs).


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## David (Jul 24, 2006)

that clip was sweet.


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## Mastodon (Jul 24, 2006)

Hey wait, didn't someone already post that clip a couple pages ago?


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## David (Jul 24, 2006)

Mastodon said:


> Hey wait, didn't someone already post that clip a couple pages ago?


if they did, I missed it.


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## Metal Ken (Jul 24, 2006)

Same here. i didnt see it either, thats why i posted it lol


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 25, 2006)

We can't let this monster thread die now! 

Have to say I've been won over by that video, the guitar looked great! And you can see when he does those crazy high legato things why he needs such a big cutaway/small horn.

And who were those idiots saying it looked crap!?!?.......................oh wait


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## distressed_romeo (Jul 25, 2006)

Got to remember that guitar's a prototype...judging by his previous axes, I expect he'll go for a much sexier finish on the finished ones. The colour was the only thing that spoilt that guitar for me.


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## Drew (Jul 25, 2006)

noodles said:


> That always had an Ibby trem. He supplied Jackson with it when he ordered the guitar. I'm not sure of the time frame, but the OFR-7 might not have been available at the time it was built. I seem to recall Mike telling me that is why his Soloist has a fixed bridge: he won't settle for anything less than an OFR-7.



Nah, it got swapped within a few months of him getting the guitar, but for one reason or another it wasn't originally spec'd with an Ibanez trem: 






That's definitely not an Edge. I remember being shocked when I first saw the pictures of his new Jackson that he'd go to something other than a Lo-Pro after using them for so long.

I'd let it slide, but at the time I was a total Ibanez fanboy and was dumbfounded when I saw the non-Edge, and then relieved when he replaced it.


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## Pablo (Jul 25, 2006)

Well, I won't be buying the RC signature seing as I don't like EMGs and prefer _not_ to have floyds on my guitars, *BUT* IMHO that thing is NOT ugly! To me it looks pretty much like a standard super Strat with extra upper fret access. Nothing offensive as I see it - if anything, they didn't go _far enough_ with the thing... I mean Rusty is extreme, his Sig guit-fiddle should reflect that! 

If I were Rusty, I'd have the good people at Dean either come up with either a new headstock or reverse the one they have and do _something_ to make it stand out more. You need to give people a reason _not_ to buy Ibanez, Schecter, Jackson or ESP (LTD) in order to make a dent in what's already a niche market - and IMHO that design doesn't do that: It's simply a slightly too generic super Strat.

Cheers

Eske


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## Exhale (Jul 25, 2006)

Scott said:


> Wow. Im not a Rusty fan at all, but I didn't see this comming.
> Next he'll probably cut his hair!
> This remind anyone else of the whole Petrucci fiasco?



Huh? What fiasco?

When youve been in the buisness for over 20 years you have probably done and explored alot and feel a need for different things. My 2c.

 Oh, and that Dean thing with Rusty sucks


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## 777 (Jul 25, 2006)

pwned


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## eaeolian (Jul 25, 2006)

777 said:


> man rustys obviously wants another ibanez i mean look at that "pink" dean i mean it looks like one of those fake chibanez guitars ibanez owns all guitar companies and i highly doubt dean could offer as thin and fast a neck and pure playability of his nez



Uh, OK. It's a straight-out clone of his Jackson, not his Ibanez, and Dean could make whatever neck profile he wants, just like most custom shops.


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## David (Jul 25, 2006)

777 said:


> man rustys obviously wants another ibanez i mean look at that "pink" dean i mean it looks like one of those fake chibanez guitars ibanez owns all guitar companies and i highly doubt dean could offer as thin and fast a neck and pure playability of his nez


stop talking.


please?


At least I said it nicely.


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 25, 2006)

Here's some NAMM pics...






more here: http://www.deanguitars.com/summer06/


...and check the grain on this beast:


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## David (Jul 26, 2006)

holy fuck those are some gorgeous pics.


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## Jason (Jul 26, 2006)

David said:


> stop talking.
> please?
> At least I said it nicely.



WOW and this coming from a ibby fanboy  oh and i totally agree


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## David (Jul 26, 2006)

.jason. said:


> WOW and this coming from a ibby fanboy  oh and i totally agree


if I could get a 7 like rusty's, with even MORE fret access, a thin neck, liike that, I would. The RG 7's are the closest thing to what I would like exactly, that's why I'm an ibby fanboy.


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Jul 26, 2006)

777 said:


> man rustys obviously wants another ibanez i mean look at that "pink" dean i mean it looks like one of those fake chibanez guitars ibanez owns all guitar companies and i highly doubt dean could offer as thin and fast a neck and pure playability of his nez



 

At least I had some sense in my arguments.

If rusty wanted another ibanez, he would have stayed with them, maybe?


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## chris9 (Jul 26, 2006)

God i,m gonna get one of them its one of the best looking 7,s i,ve ever seen i can,t wait till it comes out!!!!!!


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## Elysian (Jul 26, 2006)

777 said:


> man rustys obviously wants another ibanez i mean look at that "pink" dean i mean it looks like one of those fake chibanez guitars ibanez owns all guitar companies and i highly doubt dean could offer as thin and fast a neck and pure playability of his nez


ibanez doesn't own shit lol, and i could make a neck thats thinner than an ibanez if i wanted, anyone could. i've already made necks to the same specs as ibanez necks, like the super strat i shipped out last week, and my V's neck, while asymmetrical, is still as thick as an ibanez in the middle... and my 6's neck is as thin as any ibanez neck... what ibanez does isn't some miracle of science, nor is it out of the ordinary, companies have been making necks just as thin for years. go measure a jackson neck and compare it to a wizard, you won't find but maybe a few thousandths of an inch difference, if even that.


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## noodles (Jul 26, 2006)

Holy hell does that ML look fucking amazing.


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 26, 2006)

noodles said:


> Holy hell does that ML look fucking amazing.


Yeah, I dunno what you'd even call that kind of wood, Flamed HOly Shit or something I guess


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## Toshiro (Jul 26, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Yeah, I dunno what you'd even call that kind of wood, Flamed HOly Shit or something I guess



Maybe(reads tag in photo) "Redwood"?


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## Elysian (Jul 26, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Maybe(reads tag in photo) "Redwood"?


i much prefer Flamed HOLY SHIT!


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## D-EJ915 (Jul 26, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Maybe(reads tag in photo) "Redwood"?


lol, that went off the screen for me...I totally did not notice that


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## Drew (Jul 26, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Yeah, I dunno what you'd even call that kind of wood, Flamed HOly Shit or something I guess



Damn dude. I completely agreee. Is that striping across the flame in the grain, or is that an applied finish? Either way, that's completely eye-catching. 

777 - when you do finally respond to these guys, please do it politely.


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## Pauly (Jul 26, 2006)

D-EJ915 said:


> Here's some NAMM pics...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sexy. The upper fret access is Riddick, Chronicles of. Unlikely to see it in lefty though *weep*.

A more straight on pic:

http://www.deanguitars.com/summer06/gal1/images/LewnWorx NAMM06 Outworld-009_JPG.jpg


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2006)

Umm anyone have dean's email addresse? I got a RTS error from [email protected], which is what they have posted on their site. I wanted to see if they would say more in email.


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## MetalMike (Aug 7, 2006)

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but it has been confirmed in the Outworld forum that the trem is a Takeuchi and that Dean will build him an 8 but he _thinks_ it won't be available to the public.


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## David (Aug 7, 2006)

metalmike23 said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted, but it has been confirmed in the Outworld forum that the trem is a Takeuchi and that Dean will build him an 8 but he _thinks_ it won't be available to the public.


didn't know that! good to know, thanks.=)


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## zak (Aug 7, 2006)

metalmike23 said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted, but it has been confirmed in the Outworld forum that the trem is a Takeuchi and that Dean will build him an 8 but he _thinks_ it won't be available to the public.


hmmmm....I wonder who asked him that question about the 8 string???


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 8, 2006)

ALL THIS FUSSING OVER PRODUCTION MANUFACTURERS, THAT'S WHY I WENT TO A LUTHIER (WWW.JORDANMUSIC.COM) TO BUILD MY TFS6.














MY NEXT ONE WILL BE BUILT BY MOSER CUSTOM SHOP.


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## Nik (Aug 8, 2006)

Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Dean 8 is gonna look like


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## Mastodon (Aug 8, 2006)

That's a really cool guitar Squirrel. Headstock kind of bothers me but that is still one cool guitar.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 8, 2006)

WHICH HEADSTOCK, THE INLINE OR THE 3X4?


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## eaeolian (Aug 8, 2006)

I didn't think Moser would build 7s?


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 8, 2006)

CUSTOMS HE WILL, IT'S MY OWN HEADSTOCK DESIGN, & I'M SUPPLYING THE TEMPLATE, WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF HIS RELUCTANCE RESIDES WHEN BUILDING A 7 OF HIS DESIGNS.


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## noodles (Aug 8, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> I didn't think Moser would build 7s?



Won't build sevens? More like Poser.


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## D-EJ915 (Aug 8, 2006)

noodles said:


> Won't build sevens? More like Poser.


Yeah, total hoser.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 8, 2006)

NEAL MOSER IS A PERSONAL FRIEND OF MINE.


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## zak (Aug 8, 2006)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> NEAL MOSER IS A PERSONAL FRIEND OF MINE.


WHY ALL THE CAPITALS!


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## Metal Ken (Aug 8, 2006)

zak said:


> WHY ALL THE CAPITALS!



GOD DAMNIT WE COVER THIS EVERY THREAD. 

He has a work computer that only accepts caps inputs.


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## D-EJ915 (Aug 8, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> GOD DAMNIT WE COVER THIS EVERY THREAD.
> 
> He has a work computer that only accepts caps inputs.


He should put it in his sig


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 8, 2006)

HOW'S THIS?


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## Metal Ken (Aug 8, 2006)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> HOW'S THIS?




Dude, dont even worry about it, change it back to how it was.


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## David (Aug 8, 2006)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> HOW'S THIS?


dude, that's perfect, I always wondered why you posted in all caps. Good to know so we don't rag on you.=)


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## eaeolian (Aug 9, 2006)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> CUSTOMS HE WILL, IT'S MY OWN HEADSTOCK DESIGN, & I'M SUPPLYING THE TEMPLATE, WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF HIS RELUCTANCE RESIDES WHEN BUILDING A 7 OF HIS DESIGNS.



Ah, that makes sense.


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## Mastodon (Aug 9, 2006)

It could just be the way I'mr eading it to myself, but his predicament combined with your reactions is fucking hillarious.


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## Alpo (Aug 9, 2006)

noodles said:


> Won't build sevens? More like Poser.





D-EJ915 said:


> Yeah, total hoser.


 You kids crack me up!


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 9, 2006)




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## zak (Aug 9, 2006)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


>


I'M SORRY I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO POST AT WORK. Fortunetly I have cap lock control here!


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## shredfreak (Sep 8, 2006)

Some info i have from another forum. And honestly i hope this isn't gonna be the final price since i'm not to eager anymore on his signature if this is the actual price  



> We should see these later this Year
> 
> $ 4110 LIST PRICE
> 
> ...


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## W4D (Sep 12, 2006)

metalmike23 said:


> I'm not sure if this has been posted, but it has been confirmed in the Outworld forum that the trem is a Takeuchi and that Dean will build him an 8 but he _thinks_ it won't be available to the public.



We will see what all comes of this guitar. Hope it turns out great.


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## MetalMike (Sep 12, 2006)

W4D said:


> My buddy Mike is building the one that will eb used for mass production. He is in Houston, texas and the will he will be building the couple eight strings for Rusty.
> 
> _I know more but I could be shot for telling everything. I am sure you are smart enough to figure it out._



Can you give a hint to the possibility of a RC 8?

Is there anything you could tell us about it that hasn't already been said that you'd be allowed to discuss like the final price?

By what you said I'd assume there will be an import version because the US models wouldn't be mass produced.


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## W4D (Sep 12, 2006)

metalmike23 said:


> Can you give a hint to the possibility of a RC 8?
> 
> Is there anything you could tell us about it that hasn't already been said that you'd be allowed to discuss like the final price?
> 
> By what you said I'd assume there will be an import version because the US models wouldn't be mass produced.




as soon as I have teh ok I will mention it.

His personal eights will not be done till after NAMM anyways


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## MetalMike (Sep 12, 2006)

W4D said:


> as soon as I have teh ok I will mention it.
> 
> His personal eights will not be done till after NAMM anyways



 Thanks dude. I'm looking forward to hearing a bit more.


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