# 9-String Multiscale: Production Guitars?



## cardinal (Nov 9, 2019)

Babymetal's Metal Galaxy has me crushing hard on a 9-string. Thinking I'd want a multiscale...

Rondo/Agile has done some in varying scales. Legator has the LM9. Schecter had some prototypes years ago.

Any others? Looks like Skervesen and some others thought might work top out at 8 strings.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 9, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Babymetal's Metal Galaxy has me crushing hard on a 9-string. Thinking I'd want a multiscale...
> 
> Rondo/Agile has done some in varying scales. Legator has the LM9. Schecter had some prototypes years ago.
> 
> Any others? Looks like Skervesen and some others thought might work top out at 8 strings.


I haven't seen any production models, particularly multiscale 9 strings, besides the legator/agiles.
9 strings basically demands going full custom imo


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 9, 2019)

The Agiles are nice. I’d go that route. And do 27-30 inch, as that seems to be the best for tuning to C#.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 9, 2019)

Hollowway said:


> The Agiles are nice. I’d go that route. And do 27-30 inch, as that seems to be the best for tuning to C#.



I always try to keep the scales short as possible... The Babymetal album sounds pretty cool to me and I think they used a 28"? Was thinking a 27-28" fan might feel pretty comfortable (I'm used to 27") but work well enough for the C#. 

Probably will try an Agile though to test into out.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 9, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I always try to keep the scales short as possible... The Babymetal album sounds pretty cool to me and I think they used a 28"? Was thinking a 27-28" fan might feel pretty comfortable (I'm used to 27") but work well enough for the C#.
> 
> Probably will try an Agile though to test into out.


honestly you're better off just buying a 30" scale 8 string and using it just for C#. non-multiscale 9 strings are a pain in the ass to get the low end to work and shorter scale 9 strings are even worse.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 9, 2019)

Probably right. Could be an excuse to get a M8M to tune to C#.


----------



## c7spheres (Nov 9, 2019)

Agile has 10 stirngs too. Why not just go all out 10 string!


----------



## trem licking (Nov 9, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> honestly you're better off just buying a 30" scale 8 string and using it just for C#. non-multiscale 9 strings are a pain in the ass to get the low end to work and shorter scale 9 strings are even worse.


you can get 30" 9 string agiles... which would be exactly the same as a 30" 8 string minus a string. i have an agile 9 string and its pretty awesome... low C# is difficult on any scale guitar, definitely have to treat it differently than the other higher tuned strings unless you wanna play the ultimate sludge muddle


----------



## fcv (Nov 9, 2019)

Halo guitars had a limited production run of 28-30 scale 9 string, but that's discontinued now and good luck trying to find one of them now.



Hollowway said:


> The Agiles are nice. I’d go that route. And do 27-30 inch, as that seems to be the best for tuning to C#.


Those are also quite difficult to find. There is actually one on reverb at the moment for $1100 used, but other than that I don't think I've ever seen one hit the used places. They haven't made them in 9 string for quite a while afaik, and I emailed rondo earlier this year asking if they were coming back and was told they didn't have any plans to at the current time.


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 9, 2019)

fcv said:


> Halo guitars had a limited production run of 28-30 scale 9 string, but that's discontinued now and good luck trying to find one of them now.
> 
> 
> Those are also quite difficult to find. There is actually one on reverb at the moment for $1100 used, but other than that I don't think I've ever seen one hit the used places. They haven't made them in 9 string for quite a while afaik, and I emailed rondo earlier this year asking if they were coming back and was told they didn't have any plans to at the current time.



Ah, interesting. Well, the 10s are in 27-30 pretty routinely now. I picked up a cheap used one of those. I guess if you strictly wanted a 9, then Agile 30" straight scales are the only option. But the 10s might be an alternative.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 10, 2019)

Thanks guys. I probably should just pick up a common/cheaper 9 like a Hellraiser or straight scale Agile and see if I even can use the C# and F# and then figure out if Id use them enough to worry about the scale of the other 6 strings.


----------



## asopala (Nov 10, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Thanks guys. I probably should just pick up a common/cheaper 9 like a Hellraiser or straight scale Agile and see if I even can use the C# and F# and then figure out if Id use them enough to worry about the scale of the other 6 strings.



You also have the option of the Damien Platinum 9, which is 30 inches. It usually goes for $789, so there's that option, if you can get past the bat inlays.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 10, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Thanks guys. I probably should just pick up a common/cheaper 9 like a Hellraiser or straight scale Agile and see if I even can use the C# and F# and then figure out if Id use them enough to worry about the scale of the other 6 strings.



I say go with the devil you know rather than the one you don't. 9 strings just compound everything that's awkward or annoying about 8 strings. 
1. very wide fretboards/necks on the schecter/ibby options (and I say that as a guy with quite large hands)
2. even less aftermarket pickup options than 8 strings (there's like 4 or 5
options for 9 strings lol)
3. even more niche=even harder to move, if you need or want to get rid of it
4. even harder to mute than 8 strings


----------



## fcv (Nov 10, 2019)

asopala said:


> You also have the option of the Damien Platinum 9, which is 30 inches. It usually goes for $789, so there's that option, if you can get past the bat inlays.


Definitely agree with this. The schecter is lighter, balances better, and has a thinner neck with a finish thats easier to glide your hand across than that glossy stuff agile likes to put on everything. Pretty much a straight up upgrade from the agile imo for not a lot more money if you're buying new and can deal with the bats. Fewer of them floating around the used market if you're trying to scrape up a deal though.


----------



## stockwell (Nov 10, 2019)

If you want a production model I'd definitely wait for an Agile (used or new). They offer 27-30"s from time to time. I can't imagine a C# feeling good on anything less than 30", and I'm not sure the high strings would be great on a straight 30" scale. Also, with a 9-string you're much more limited on pickup selection. And you might need to do some mods to tuners/saddles/ferrules if you want thicker strings than stock (which I definitely would). 

If I was you I'd much rather get a 30" scale baritone 6. Much more reasonable to manage. People get so fixated on number of strings when the scale is what matters.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 10, 2019)

allheavymusic said:


> If you want a production model I'd definitely wait for an Agile (used or new). They offer 27-30"s from time to time. I can't imagine a C# feeling good on anything less than 30", and I'm not sure the high strings would be great on a straight 30" scale. Also, with a 9-string you're much more limited on pickup selection. And you might need to do some mods to tuners/saddles/ferrules if you want thicker strings than stock (which I definitely would).
> 
> If I was you I'd much rather get a 30" scale baritone 6. Much more reasonable to manage. People get so fixated on number of strings when the scale is what matters.



Thing is I like to do a lot of open "cowboy-type" chords. So dropping the high e and/or high b strings would kinda stink for me. That's why I tend to prefer adding strings for more range. 

I'll see what I can find. Im fixated on a 28" scale because that seems to work for the Babymetal album. In my experience with 8 strings, everyone says oh you need big strings and long scale, but I've had good results with just a .068 and 26.5" to 27". I suspect that I can work with 28". 

Which means maybe I could get a Hellraiser C8FR and drop the high e and see how it goes. Or just try the Agile or a C9.


----------



## ThePIGI King (Nov 10, 2019)

I've had decent results with my RG9 through an HD500 that I didn't even take the time to re-eq for the 9th string. 28 is doable, but I'm in the camp of maybe a bit longer would be better.

That said, playing clean, my RG9 is pretty sweet. Distorted less so.


----------



## thomas.reuter (Nov 10, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Which means maybe I could get a Hellraiser C8FR and drop the high e and see how it goes. Or just try the Agile or a C9.


Don't forget about the M80M, 29.4".


----------



## Skervesen Guitars (Nov 13, 2019)

We've made 9, 10 strings (usually SkerveTEN). Shit we even did 16 string for Felix Martin. If you need any inspiration I have around 300+ mb of pictures in archive of past builds


----------



## cardinal (Nov 13, 2019)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> We've made 9, 10 strings (usually SkerveTEN). Shit we even did 16 string for Felix Martin. If you need any inspiration I have around 300+ mb of pictures in archive of past builds



Awesome, thanks! 

I'm still trying to size up exactly what I have in mind, and just need to try a few things before committing to a custom order. I could go for an actual 9-string, but fanning the frets seems difficult because it's hard to find pickups wide enough, it seems. Even the Agiles have the outer strings outside the pole pieces, which in my experience is not good.

I'm also considering maybe a fanned 8-string but with 27 or so frets, strung from low C# to high B. The extra frets would give me the same top-end range as a 21-fret Strat, which is all I really need. I just lose the open cowboy cords that use the high E, and I'd need the builder to carefully massage the body proportions so that I can reach all the frets but not have the body look really strange. Maybe a V shape.

Or I just suck it up and get a 28" to 30" straight-scale 9 and deal with all the snapped high B and E strings that I'm sure will result.


----------



## PBC (Nov 13, 2019)

I'd trust KnightBrolaire and Hollowway's opinion on things, they have a lot of experience with ERGs. For my creds, I have quite the number of 9 & 10 strings that have been on the market. 

One of the biggest upsides/downsides of 9 strings is that there isn't really and entry level (sub 500) model which means that the likelihood of getting a lemon is small and a higher quality instrument is large, on the other hand is does require more investment up front. 

Given what I can glean from your thread your intended tuning is 9-string standard:
C#F#BEADGbe
and another one of your requirements is to try and maintain the high e for chording purposes. I'm also assuming that you already have an 8 string given your flavor text underneath your username so you probably know your way around an instrument and understand all that range.

Addressing one of your concerns on strings, unless you are doing large bends or using strings that lack durability (Ernie Ball), you will be fine with a straight scale. Speaking of strings, you have limited options: String Joy makes up to .90, there's the Ernie Ball set (.90 or .105), but anything else is (and should be used) is La Bella custom strings or Kalium (though they can have really long order -> delivery). You could also get a .90 from Winspear strings (yes SSO Winspear, the resident ERG enthusiast). 

From a market perspective you have more options for 8 string pickups; almost every major brand has them although few can handle fanned frets (EMG 909s) are the only non-custom option that I know of. For 9 string pickups, you can order custom ones from Seymour Duncan, Villex or Bare Knuckle (Bare Knuckle has a maximum angle of 10 degrees which is basically nothing regarding how large a fan you want). Speaking of which you should try to figure out how big of a fan you like. I can adapt to pretty much anything, but a couple of notes is that Agile Fanned Frets are perpendicular around the 9-10th fret, which given a 3" fan, makes the nut and bridge a lot to get used to. If you're into palm muting, I find a harsh bridge angle touch to manage, plus muting is more difficult than a straight scale 9 string. Back to the topic at hand, for 9 string pickups for a fan you basically have Lace. 4.5 Inch will fit into an Agile 9 String and 5.0 into a 10 string. However, the X-Bar and Death-Bare have quite a specific sound to them that can be really hit or miss. 

As mentioned above, depending on tuning, an 8 string would actually provide better range. One of the downsides about 9 string is that they can force you into certain tunings if you want to stick to normal standard (P4) or drop (P5) variations. Important for this discussion is the safest high note (included in various points around this site). "Generally" you can get away with High G4 (27"), High F#4 (28") and High F4(30"). I have used all three. Given those constraints, let's take a look at the tunings. It's important to look at extended range like this from the highest possible tuning rather than lowest, since with the latter you can tune to whatever (given your tolerance for timbre, intonation, and string tension).

Tunings from the perspective of a 6-string just extended, trying to keep similar open notes and relationships:

On a 28" scale the highest you could do is a C# standard/Drop B: 
C#F#C#F#BEg#c#f#
BF#BF#BEg#c#f#
EbG#C#F#BEg#c#f# (Standard, this is actually a very awesome tuning)

On a 30" (everything minus a halfstep: C Standard/Drop Bb):
CFCFBbEbgcf
BbFBbFBbEbgcf
DGCFBbEbgcf (Standard)

If you come from the perspective of 7-String than the same as above.
B standard/Drop A variations:
C#F#BEADGbe
BEBEADGbe
BEAEADGbe (Rings of Saturn 9 string)
AEAEADGbe (Double Drop)

A lot of this depends if you ever want to experiment with Double Drop tunings (which I find the most useful for ERG). You can either use a P5 or P4 for the 8th string, e.g. BF#BEADGbe or BEBEADGbe

So what does this really mean; basically if you get tired of that tuning (C#F#BEADGbe), you can only go lower, without using the variations above. Conversely with an 8 string, if you get (rid) of high string you have greater options of tunings whilst avoid a weird major Second, minor Third, major Third interval of the highest string. 

For example a Double Drop C / Drop F variation that I have on my 30" because I lack a long scale 8. 
CFCGCFadf

The d to f on the highest is really awkward and I wish it wasn't there. So if we try this perspective. Let's take a look at 8 string.

27":
Potential Highest:
GDGCFADG (Drop G + High G or you could do A Standard) -> Limited to 27" 
Potential Lowest:
CGCGCFAD (Double Drop C) -> Can be used 27" -> 30". You might be able to get away with C1 on 27"

28":
Potential Highest:
F#C#F#BEg#c#f# (Drop F# or you could do G# standard)

30:
Potential Highest:
FCFBbEbgcf (Drop F or G Standard)

In summary. If you potentially got an M80M, 29.4". You have:

G Standard: Highest
GCFBbEbgcf

to, let's say, double drop G# (equivalent to 10 string standard lowest note):
G#EbG#EbG#C#F#BbEb 

That's a massive amount of variety for such an instrument if you want to do normal standard (P4) or drop (P5) variations. 9 Strings have much limited options with the P4/P5 constraint without going into (in my opinion) useless contrabass notes. From my perspective the lowest that's usable for me is F#0 on a guitar (m3 lower than 5 string bass) given a scale length of 30". Even then I like to never go below G#.

With all the above information, I cannot recommend spending the money on a custom instrument without being 100% sure of the tuning and commitment to the instrument. Else you'll end up with a 2k+ instrument that will feel like a sunk cost. Let's quickly sum up the production options.

I don't recommend the Ibanez RG9 because has a very unique neck that some might not jive with. Plus every one I've tried, and even my own, have uneven fretwork so unless you Plek or do some work on it, you won't be able to set one up amazing out of the gate. Agile doesn't have as great of a bridge for setting intonation nor comfort, in my opinion. They also have the roundest radius of all the options listed (16"), and with the large neck width, it can feel kinda odd, although you may get used to ti. Legator built some great stuff in the past (I have old Josh Travis models) however since 2016, I find that everything I've tried has been pretty terrible. You may be able to find an old Josh Travis (great quality): however it could either have the very early thick neck (22.5mm-23.5mm) or the more recent make (with a 19mm-20neck). I have both but was very surprised at the change. You can also maybe find a used Mike Gianelli sig, but I have yet to find one. He's now with Schecter. The Schecter, both of them, are quite good. In my opinion, the Schecter C9, with it's authentic Hipshot bridge, locking tuners, EMG 909s, medium thin neck (20mm-22mm, it feels thinner in your hands due to the neck width), and higher QA/build quality given the Hellraiser line (it intonates very well, plus it also has the hipshot sort saddles on the bridge right out of the box). It is a no-brainer given all the information and subjectivity above. The 28" scale is more than enough (allow you to tune higher, and get away with double drop A: AEAEADGbe), it's usually 1k or less plus a hard-case. Note all these guitar have the bridge . pushed further back toward to the tail so the guitar feels shorter when playing in classical position, although the DP9 does feel quite longer than the C9 in my hands. You can't go wrong with either one for a 9 string.

*TLDR: My recommendation is a Schecter C9*


----------



## cardinal (Nov 13, 2019)

PBC said:


> I'd trust KnightBrolaire and Hollowway's opinion on things, they have a lot of experience with ERGs. For my creds, I have quite the number of 9 & 10 strings that have been on the market.
> 
> One of the biggest upsides/downsides of 9 strings is that there isn't really and entry level (sub 500) model which means that the likelihood of getting a lemon is small and a higher quality instrument is large, on the other hand is does require more investment up front.
> 
> ...



That's awesome, thanks man! Yes, I play 8-strings now, with either a 26.5" or 27" scale. I snap high b and high e strings constantly with every one of them, so it must be my playing style (I do lots of 1.5+ step bends). That's really my only fear of going to a 28" scale: the higher tension making bending harder and more likely to snap the strings even more often.

But after looking around, it seems like the C9 is the best bet for me. I've had great experiences with Diamond Series quality, and the 28" scale is going to work better for me than the 30" stuff. I'm looking around for an inexpensive 8 with a 26.5-28" multi-scale, as maybe I could tune that low C# to high b and get by with that for when I want my low C# jollies. The Strandbergs and Aristides 080s have that scale if I want to spend more significant money on a production guitar. Some Legators have that scale and sure are cheap, but I don't know if I really want to go there. Kiesel's multiscale only goes up to 27.5", which I'm not sure is going to work out well enough for low C#. If I can find one of those for cheap, I might give it a go.

EDIT: just realized that some cheaper Jackson 8s go 26-28" multiscale. That could be another option, but is a bit more of an extreme fan.

Thanks again!


----------



## trem licking (Nov 13, 2019)

cardinal said:


> That's awesome, thanks man! Yes, I play 8-strings now, with either a 26.5" or 27" scale. I snap high b and high e strings constantly with every one of them, so it must be my playing style (I do lots of 1.5+ step bends). That's really my only fear of going to a 28" scale: the higher tension making bending harder and more likely to snap the strings even more often.
> 
> But after looking around, it seems like the C9 is the best bet for me. I've had great experiences with Diamond Series quality, and the 28" scale is going to work better for me than the 30" stuff. I'm looking around for an inexpensive 8 with a 26.5-28" multi-scale, as maybe I could tune that low C# to high b and get by with that for when I want my low C# jollies. The Strandbergs and Aristides 080s have that scale if I want to spend more significant money on a production guitar. Some Legators have that scale and sure are cheap, but I don't know if I really want to go there. Kiesel's multiscale only goes up to 27.5", which I'm not sure is going to work out well enough for low C#. If I can find one of those for cheap, I might give it a go.
> 
> ...


man you must mangle those strings! i have a .008 gauge high E on both my C8 FR (28") and i whammy and bend the shit out of that string and it hasnt broken since ive had it. also got an .008 string on my 30" agile and bend that at least a half step and sometimes more and the strings have been on there forever. maybe im just lucky?


----------



## Winspear (Nov 13, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I snap high b and high e strings constantly with every one of them, so it must be my playing style



I'd look into sharp contact points, this really should not happen


----------



## cardinal (Nov 13, 2019)

Winspear said:


> I'd look into sharp contact points, this really should not happen



Three of them of Floyds and the saddles look good to me. That's six saddles that's would have to all have sharp contact points. Just broke one last night, right at the string lock at the saddle. Sometimes it's in the region over the pickups.

Dunno why. I do a lot of bending (a lot), but I don't know if that alone explains it. Never had troubles with 25.5" sevens.

But it's one of the reasons I always block my Floyd's (stays in tune after the break) and like to have another one close by (and a big stack of high e strings in the case).


----------



## Winspear (Nov 14, 2019)

Interesting - I wouldn't be surprised by a 27" E breaking on 1.5 step bends but the B string is very surprising


----------



## Rosal76 (Nov 15, 2019)

trem licking said:


> man you must mangle those strings! i have a .008 gauge high E on both my C8 FR (28") and i whammy and bend the shit out of that string and it hasnt broken since ive had it. also got an .008 string on my 30" agile and bend that at least a half step and sometimes more and the strings have been on there forever. maybe im just lucky?



Trem licking, could you tell the other string (2-8) gauges that you are using on your 8 string guitars that have the .008 string for the high E? And also, the tuning(s) that those guitars are in?

The reason I'm asking/interested is that I may want to string my 8 string guitar with the Ernie Ball Extra slinky set (low to high: .038-.030-.022-.014-.011-.008) and use a .054 for the 7th string and a .065 for the 8th. I already have years of experience with the Ernie Ball .038-.008 set as all of my 6 string guitars are strung with them. I purchased my first 8 string guitar last August and I'm thinking about using a .008 string set for the next time I string that guitar. For the time being, I'm using Ibanez' factory stock string gauges/tuning. I want to get as much information as I can if I decide to switch to a .008 set. Thanks.


----------



## fcv (Nov 15, 2019)

Rosal76 said:


> The reason I'm asking/interested is that I may want to string my 8 string guitar with the Ernie Ball Extra slinky set (low to high: .038-.030-.022-.014-.011-.008) and use a .054 for the 7th string and a .065 for the 8th. I already have years of experience with the Ernie Ball .038-.008 set as all of my 6 string guitars are strung with them. I purchased my first 8 string guitar last August and I'm thinking about using a .008 string set for the next time I string that guitar. For the time being, I'm using Ibanez' factory stock string gauges/tuning. I want to get as much information as I can if I decide to switch to a .008 set. Thanks.



You might want to measure the string length before you go ahead with that. Ernie Balls' 8 string packs don't reach the pegs on a lot of 8 strings so I wouldn't have much hope for their 6 string sets.


----------



## Rosal76 (Nov 15, 2019)

fcv said:


> You might want to measure the string length before you go ahead with that. Ernie Balls' 8 string packs don't reach the pegs on a lot of 8 strings so I wouldn't have much hope for their 6 string sets.



Sound advice. I'll check the measurements and hope for the best. The next time I restring one of my 6 string guitars with the Ernie Ball Extra slinky set, I'll see if those strings are long enough to reach the pegs on my 8 string.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 15, 2019)

Alright, leaning towards going for it.


----------



## Spicypickles (Nov 16, 2019)

Most importantly, how does your wife/SO feel about this?


----------



## cardinal (Nov 16, 2019)

Spicypickles said:


> Most importantly, how does your wife/SO feel about this?



It's like... 1.5 guitars for the price of just 1. That's like, 50% more strings for free!!!


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 16, 2019)

Boys, you are getting it only half right. Buy my M80M, and play the ULTIMATE ORIGINAL ERG [purely based off of Meshuggah and the djent genre]....if you want TRUE DJENT power, only the M80M drops that sonic hammer of Thor ....M80M owners would I agree I think? Lol


----------



## cardinal (Nov 17, 2019)

I think if I went with a straight 30" scale, I'd probably would just go with detuned 6 or 7 string. I'm thinking at this point that any 9 I'd actually use enough to justify would have to be multiscale. I have so much trouble with the high b and high e strings at 27", I can only imagine that I'd need new strings for those every few days at 30".


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 17, 2019)

Dude......you have the right the assume exactly what you thought, a 30” neck, etc.... BUT its 29.4” lol, no jk, while that might actually make a difference thats not why i said it.....

however that is why I say, if there are any M80M owners, they definitely can verify.......there is something about the Meshuggah signature (especially the $7k version), but you get a depth with just unbelievable clarity, simply unmatched IMHO, IDK why, but its definitely the only ERG Ive played or heard like it - dont get me wrong , its limited in that its a METAL RHYTHM GUITAR, period, no bones about it.

At the same time, if your looking for CUT through brootalz type djent tone, the m80m gets the job done like no other. I beleive it was said in another persons post or a NGD, its like sonic thunder or bullets....

Anyway, I digress....Do whatever your heart desires, but i thought you outta know, if Djent is what you seek, the M80M is a serious thought to ponder imo


----------



## Ziricote (Nov 17, 2019)

Need one


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 19, 2019)

PBC said:


> I'd trust KnightBrolaire and Hollowway's opinion on things, they have a lot of experience with ERGs. For my creds, I have quite the number of 9 & 10 strings that have been on the market.
> 
> One of the biggest upsides/downsides of 9 strings is that there isn't really and entry level (sub 500) model which means that the likelihood of getting a lemon is small and a higher quality instrument is large, on the other hand is does require more investment up front.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to show respect to you for this reply, like your a fount of knowledge 

with that said, I probably won’t see your perspective , and while you almost made me want to go try one out, I still know the truth - anything past 8 is silly

that’s just how I feel after trying all the ERG I could stand and going back to 7

I still want a multi scale 8 string AT leasr to give that a chance , but 9-10 strings, that’s just a couple of bass strings sitting on top of ONE more bass string (8th string) lol

anyway do whatever makes you happy
And I concur if you pick get a schecter , they are gettin better every year


----------



## mphsc (Nov 20, 2019)

Schecter needs to come on with this one... It played great. Minus inlays please.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 20, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Babymetal's Metal Galaxy has me crushing hard on a 9-string. Thinking I'd want a multiscale...
> 
> Rondo/Agile has done some in varying scales. Legator has the LM9. Schecter had some prototypes years ago.
> 
> Any others? Looks like Skervesen and some others thought might work top out at 8 strings.


Why not 10 man? Honestly why 9? If we go past 8, which in my opinion is the ERG, because it is a bass hidden on top of a guitar by 1 1/4 strings , or hidden IN a guitar ... whatever an 8 string is called an ERG because it’s not a guitar really/ the M8m is a perfect example: literally it’s a bass guitar with an Fx3 bridge and m8 pup).... they don’t even put a neck pup to emphasIze “you realize your a guitarist who is playing guitar strings on a bass , right “

I love the 2228 , m80m, and the Esp SC B8 but it’s sooooooo niche and not as useful as a 7 string..
Which brings me to the point

if your going to have a low end bass hybrid guitar , why stop at 9 strings? Let’s just make it an even 10

I feel going past 8 for 4 notes is stupid but I think for ten strings it’s a cool idea


Ok sorry if I sounded harsh, I took an ambien as I fall asleep but I thought it’s a good time to say hey I don’t like it

remember the wren and stimpy horse “No Sir I don’t Like it”


But show me 10 strings with smaller strings spacing and carbon graphite rod beck please show me something like that

that would be interesting , like It is, what are we doing here ? BAby steps to our baby metal 9 string ????

fuxk that 9 string pu$$y a$$ b!tcx sh!t
That’s for little Asian girls (no diss to Asian women, I love you but I making a big dumb lumbering American man joke)! 

and last thing I’ll say is remember Pearl Harbor when you think of baby metal. Honestly would they want us actually listening to this ? My poor grandpa would roll in his grave

like I said , no problem with Asian women, but can’t we try an Asia dude with a Properly design 10 string ???
Get like that guy from that silly group dragon flames or something . Herman Jet or something 

grab him, teach him how to play (lol) and all then let’s see what they got 

10 string ! 10 string ! USA ! USA
(Hehehe  )


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

mphsc said:


> Schecter needs to come on with this one... It played great. Minus inlays please.
> 
> View attachment 74806
> View attachment 74807


Dammit Schecter and your dumb fucking vampire inlays.


----------



## Paul McAleer (Nov 21, 2019)

Ibanez may have some offers. At least on reverb or other sites.


----------



## fcv (Nov 21, 2019)

mphsc said:


> Schecter needs to come on with this one... It played great. Minus inlays please.
> 
> View attachment 74806
> View attachment 74807


I'd rather see them do that in one of their other lines like sls elite, or banshee elite, so it'd get stainless frets, neck through instead of set, and maybe base of neck truss rod adjustment, but I'd probably still buy it.


----------



## Sonofshahar (Nov 21, 2019)

I have a agile 9 string. There's another one on their site on sale, the pendulum elite 25.5-27. Finding strings that would work was initially difficult, but Ernie Ball makes a 9 string set that works perfectly (for me). I haven't had any issues with the C# or F#, and I great prefer it to my 28 inch scale 8 string agile.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 22, 2019)

Sonofshahar said:


> I have a agile 9 string. There's another one on their site on sale, the pendulum elite 25.5-27. Finding strings that would work was initially difficult, but Ernie Ball makes a 9 string set that works perfectly (for me). I haven't had any issues with the C# or F#, and I great prefer it to my 28 inch scale 8 string agile.



Cool. What gauge string do you use for the low C#?


----------



## adrianb (Nov 22, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Babymetal's Metal Galaxy has me crushing hard on a 9-string.



Off-topic, but which songs use 9-string guitars? I started listening to Metal Galaxy just today. This could probably mean Isao would be playing more with them live. I don't think of Ohmura as a 9-string (or even 8-string) player. Have you see Isao's new red 8-string ESP Snapper?


----------



## cardinal (Nov 22, 2019)

adrianb said:


> Off-topic, but which songs use 9-string guitars? I started listening to Metal Galaxy just today. This could probably mean Isao would be playing more with them live. I don't think of Ohmura as a 9-string (or even 8-string) player. Have you see Isao's new red 8-string ESP Snapper?



Seems like a lot of Metal Galaxy has the 9-string on it. BxMxC, Starlight, and I think Elevator Girl at least have it? Some of the others seem to have something real low here and there.

Isao's new 8 with the Floyd looks awesome. Hope it's released publicly. His 9s are killer too.

I'm not sure Isao is in the live Kamiband right now? I heard they are not using 9-strings live, which is a bummer.

I kinda wonder if a big motivator for the EII 9-string is a way to get 9-strings into the hands of the Kamiband, who otherwise aren't really big ESP endorsers.


----------



## adrianb (Nov 22, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Seems like a lot of Metal Galaxy has the 9-string on it. BxMxC, Starlight, and I think Elevator Girl at least have it? Some of the others seem to have something real low here and there.
> 
> Isao's new 8 with the Floyd looks awesome. Hope it's released publicly. His 9s are killer too.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I could hear extended lows on Starlight and maybe also on Distortion. Are you sure they're 9s though? Could just be 8s. I'm pretty sure Elevator Girl is 7 tuned to B.

After Fujioka's passing Isao has been with the live Kami band more, taking turns with Leda. I've seen Isao play his 8s live.

I think i would disagree though that the Kami band aren't big ESP endorsers. Ohmura and Fujioka have production sigs (priced insanely, naturally). Isao's 8s and 9 seem to be custom shop. And when Leda isn't playing his Strandberg he's playing his ESPs (E-IIs?) which also seem to be custom shop models.


----------



## cardinal (Nov 22, 2019)

adrianb said:


> Yeah, I could hear extended lows on Starlight and maybe also on Distortion. Are you sure they're 9s though? Could just be 8s. I'm pretty sure Elevator Girl is 7 tuned to B.
> 
> After Fujioka's passing Isao has been with the live Kami band more, taking turns with Leda. I've seen Isao play his 8s live.
> 
> I think i would disagree though that the Kami band aren't big ESP endorsers. Ohmura and Fujioka have production sigs (priced insanely, naturally). Isao's 8s and 9 seem to be custom shop. And when Leda isn't playing his Strandberg he's playing his ESPs (E-IIs?) which also seem to be custom shop models.



Sorry, those guys definitely are big endorsers. I'm not sure the band in the current US tour includes any of those guys.


----------



## adrianb (Nov 22, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Sorry, those guys definitely are big endorsers. I'm not sure the band in the current US tour includes any of those guys.



Eh? I think it's always been them, so a lineup change would be surprising.

EDIT: Well shit it looks like they've got a new touring lineup. Probably only for the US tours?


----------



## asopala (Nov 22, 2019)

adrianb said:


> Well shit it looks like they've got a new touring lineup. Probably only for the US tours?



That's my guess. It's two of the guys from Galactic Empire and one (or two?) from Shadow of Intent.


----------



## adrianb (Nov 22, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I kinda wonder if a big motivator for the EII 9-string is a way to get 9-strings into the hands of the Kamiband, who otherwise aren't really big ESP endorsers.



Alright, so i just understood what you were talking about here.

I saw this:

https://twitter.com/ESPGuitarsJP/status/1197711597449306113


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

With all that said, despite my jest, I STILL think, if ESP is going to make a ridiculous (and delicious) idea come to life, go 1 more string


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 22, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> With all that said, despite my jest, I STILL think, if ESP is going to make a ridiculous (and delicious) idea come to life, go 1 more string


A 10 string would be pointless without going to a 30" or longer scale on the bottom end. 27" isn't even enough for 9, IMO.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

GunpointMetal said:


> A 10 string would be pointless without going to a 30" or longer scale on the bottom end. 27" isn't even enough for 9, IMO.


27” is NOT enough for a 9, at all, you need 30”....so yes, you are right, i agree, so theres no point but to add another string....


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

adrianb said:


> Yeah, I could hear extended lows on Starlight and maybe also on Distortion. Are you sure they're 9s though? Could just be 8s. I'm pretty sure Elevator Girl is 7 tuned to B.


DA DA DANCE, Brand New Day and ↑↓←→BBAB (off the Japanese release) also make use of the 9-string.

I don't think Distortion does, however.


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

asopala said:


> That's my guess. It's two of the guys from Galactic Empire and one (or two?) from Shadow of Intent.


Yes, supposedly most of the road crew was US-based to cut down on the cost of having the entire Japanese crew on the road for 20 dates. Also, the regular Kami band members were in the studio recording a follow-up to their Kari Band release from a couple of years ago, IIRC.


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

cardinal said:


> I kinda wonder if a big motivator for the EII 9-string is a way to get 9-strings into the hands of the Kamiband, who otherwise aren't really big ESP endorsers.



Actually, I have a feeling that ESP Japan finally realized that they were sitting on a potential goldmine with Babymetal...much the same way that Ibanez jumped on the Korn bandwagon back in the 90s...and then later gave Meshuggah a signature guitar. After Metal Galaxy was released, I jokingly thought...there's no way that ESP is not going to capitalize on this; turns out, I was not wrong.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

dspear732 said:


> Actually, I have a feeling that ESP Japan finally realized that they were sitting on a potential goldmine with Babymetal...much the same way that Ibanez jumped on the Korn bandwagon back in the 90s...and then later gave Meshuggah a signature guitar. After Metal Galaxy was released, I jokingly thought...there's no way that ESP is not going to capitalize on this; turns out, I was not wrong.


ESP marketing team is probably the best in the guitar world. They know how to temp and bait, and they know how long to tease, and when to release....actually that sounded sexual lol

It’s true though!

Dspear has a sound point, and i dont blame ESP for doing what they do best

BUT MAKE A FUCKING 10 STRING VERSION IF YOU’RE GOING TO BE THAT STUPID.....am i the only one that feels this way?

It doesnt have to be “standard”, esp releases things in 6, 7,8 and9 versions

So i still beleive, 10 strings is the way to go.....ONLY, otherwise, i gotta drop it to an 8/10 RIGHT out the gate...sorry boys, but if baby metal is going to have an aCTUAL direct effect on ESP/luthier manufacturing , then not only do we have a possible dilemma on our hands, we HAVE to VOICE our dissatisfaction because ESP is readin this

Where else do these companies go to get bad ERG ideas??? (Usually from non professional/amature guitarists who dont leave their room)Only SSO! Lol

10 STRINGS ! USA! USA! 

BTW Japan’s ESP custom shop is now in several places? Like weren’t they at one point only one, was it NYC? And then they moved to japan? Any ESP historians out there (I know Max knows his Ibanez but if he knows this I’m gonna flip out)

BTW WHY does Stephen Carpenter put his neck pickup in like the middle/tele/single coil position? Anyone know that about ESP?


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> So i still beleive, 10 strings is the way to go.



After having purchased a Schecter C-9 recently, I'm going to have to pass on 10 strings, myself.  The neck is just too wide to play comfortably, especially for long periods of time; I think I'll be sticking with my 7-string for daily use. That being said, I do like playing the 9-string and it's a lot of fun to experiment with. Though, to my ears, the low C# is all but unusable (E is about as low as I've been going when writing riffs). I do like how the F# sounds, however...and it feels a lot different than it did when I previously owned an Ibanez M8M.

Of course, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see a production 10-string at some point.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

I get you dude,...But dude.....do you at least get my point?

Like if were going that direction, offer a limited amount of 10’s
If the 9’s sell the 10’s will sell
Just make smaller amount to check the market

Thats all I’m saying

Also, doesnt Agile and Rondo and Cort all makes production 9 strings, like good ones too?


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I get you dude,...But dude.....do you at least get my point?
> 
> Like if were going that direction, offer a limited amount of 10’s
> If the 9’s sell the 10’s will sell
> ...


Oh yeah, as long as people keep buying...I think guitar companies will continue to add strings. Though, it seems to me that they may have finally "jumped the shark" with adding strings. I don't see nearly as many offerings (aside from the Korean/Indonesian made ones) as there are 8-strings over the last few years. The Ibanez Prestige 9-string didn't last very long. I'm actually somewhat shocked that ESP is going to be offering a Japanese-made 9-string...though, I suspect it's a special order guitar like the Ibanez M8M was and they probably won't lose a ton as opposed to doing a full production run.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

You really see things similar to me, meaning you can see other perspectives even if you dont agree or share them

With that said, do you think we jumped the shark going past 8? I do..... I own 2 8 strings after joining SSO, because of SSO, and I know for a fact, that going any further is not for me, and i also think it’s wasting a possibly awesome 8 string versions of

You know what this is, this is really just ESP version of the M80M, really....but Ibanez wins lol the Lundgren makes all the difference, and EMG 909 is just a filler

Maybe thats what getting me, i see it as a knock off meshuggah without being as good....

Now IF you ARE a 9 or 10 string player, I mean no offense, but ESP is making BABY METAL a guitar?!

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/esp-just-put-out-an-impossibly-heavy-babymetal-9-string


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> You really see things similar to me, meaning you can see other perspectives even if you dont agree or share them
> 
> With that said, do you think we jumped the shark going past 8? I do..... I own 2 8 strings after joining SSO, because of SSO, and I know for a fact, that going any further is not for me, and i also think it’s wasting a possibly awesome 8 string versions of
> 
> ...


I thought we jumped the shark going past 7, to be honest. I bought an RG7421 in the 90s because of Fear Factory and I fell in love with the guitar...and have mainly played 7s ever since. When the RG2228 came out, I tried one of those as well...but didn't keep it very long. After that, the only reason I got an M8M was because I was a huge Meshuggah fan...but didn't end up keeping it that long, either. In a sense, yes, the Babymetal sig is very much like the Meshuggah sig...a one-off designed to capitalize on a group that's clearly generating a buzz (Metal Galaxy reaching #13 on the Billboard US charts wasn't bad at all). At the end of the day, I'm just glad that there are bands out there that can still generate interest in the guitar as an instrument and help to push the envelope further. We may not all necessarily be fans of the bands that are generating that interest (I wasn't much of a Korn fan), but we all ultimately benefit as players in the long run, I think. Fortunately, there have been some great players to come along and take advantage of having that extended range.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

THANK YOU. I AM GLAD YOU SAID IT FIRST MY FRIEND. Literally did the same things as you, got a universe and 7620, and then I kept seeing these ERG’s and bought 2228 and M80M and now I just want to sell them and play my 7 string....anything more is a gimmick, really man, i agree. There’s absolutely no need, and its almost useless to even have that extended range Imho, but hey, i didnt know until i bought the two 8 strings, and i found out the hard (cash money) way lol

7 is the lucky number; that is the best....thats why this is SSO with an ERG section and not ERG.org with a 7 string section am i right?

IM TOTALLY with you on that my friend, i knew you saw things similarly


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

THANK YOU. I AM GLAD YOU SAID IT FIRST MY FRIEND. Literally did the same things as you, got a universe and 7620, and then I kept seeing these ERG’s and bought 2228 and M80M and now I just want to sell them and play my 7 string....anything more is a gimmick, really man, i agree. There’s absolutely no need, and its almost useless to even have that extended range Imho, but hey, i didnt know until i bought the two 8 strings, and i found out the hard (cash money) way lol

7 is the lucky number; that is the best....thats why this is SSO with an ERG section and not ERG.org with a 7 string section am i right?

IM TOTALLY with you on that my friend, i knew you saw things similarly


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

THANK YOU. I AM GLAD YOU SAID IT FIRST MY FRIEND. Literally did the same things as you, got a universe and 7620, and then I kept seeing these ERG’s and bought 2228 and M80M and now I just want to sell them and play my 7 string....anything more is a gimmick, really man, i agree. There’s absolutely no need, and its almost useless to even have that extended range Imho, but hey, i didnt know until i bought the two 8 strings, and i found out the hard (cash money) way lol

7 is the lucky number; that is the best....thats why this is SSO with an ERG section and not ERG.org with a 7 string section am i right?

IM TOTALLY with you on that my friend, i knew you saw things similarly


----------



## Derek Spear (Nov 22, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> anything more is a gimmick, really man, i agree. There’s absolutely no need, and its almost useless to even have that extended range Imho


Yes and no...I think it's only a gimmick if one chooses to let it be. For example, if you're just a thrash metal player (my riffs are perpetually stuck in the 80s) then, having more than 6 or 7 strings may not be all that useful. On the other hand, different styles can certainly benefit from having an extended range. I do like that fact that having a 9-string now is sort of forcing me out of my comfort zone and trying to find an application for it when it doesn't really fit a style that I'm used to.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 22, 2019)

Oh totally dude, every situation/player is a different unique situation

Like some dudes really utilize it in a practical way that truly supports their art

As you mentioned, the other group is the majority of sales

But yeah, i mean especially with clean phrasing, oddly enough i find the ERG to be awesome, but when it comes to writing full songs through the eyes of F#, it just doesnt jive with me., but thats me anyway

7 string FTW lol

Nice chat bro


----------

