# Massive flaw in the Chris Broderick jackson ( I can't shim my trem!!)



## Catjive2 (Nov 22, 2011)

The radius of the neck is 12" and the Floyd rose is set for a radius of 16". So when you lower the action the G, D, & A strings will hit the fretboard 2x faster than the rest of the strings. And the few vids of people on YouTube that have them have pretty big problem with them. They need to fix this before they sell them!


----------



## Fred the Shred (Nov 22, 2011)

That is easily fixable with proper shimming of the trem saddles, so it is hardly a major issue, mate. It's also worth mentioning that such niggles are easy to convey to the maker in order to correct it from the get go, but any shop with half-decent setup capability can easily solve the radius discrepancy.


----------



## craigny (Nov 22, 2011)

Fred the Shred said:


> That is easily fixable with proper shimming of the trem saddles, so it is hardly a major issue, mate. It's also worth mentioning that such niggles are easy to convey to the maker in order to correct it from the get go, but any shop with half-decent setup capability can easily solve the radius discrepancy.


 Yeah but for an over 2K pricetag, you shouldn't have to shim anything....


----------



## Greatoliver (Nov 22, 2011)

This was a problem for the Ibanez S7320. I don't see how it got through QC, as it does become an issue when the action is low. While there is an easy solution, it would be nice to not have to go through the shimming process.


----------



## DoomJazz (Nov 22, 2011)

Yeah for that expensive of a guitar, you would think that they would've not oversighted that...


----------



## eaeolian (Nov 22, 2011)

Hmm. I'm pretty sure Chris' were shimmed, and that's pretty much all that's out there, since the production guitars aren't out yet. Maybe someone pulled the shims when they were set up, or this is a proto that didn't actually go to Chris?

I've seen plenty of guitars with the wrong bridge/fretboard radius issue from several builders, actually, including plenty of 16" radius Floyds on 12" or 14" radius guitars. It's generally not an issue unless you're trying to set the action super-low. (I know, that's how it works around here...)

I wouldn't exactly call this "massive", anyway, even though the guy in the video does. A "massive" flaw would be something like the neck angle being wrong - that's not fixable.


----------



## eaeolian (Nov 22, 2011)

craigny said:


> Yeah but for an over 2K pricetag, you shouldn't have to shim anything....



Don't ever buy anything made by Gibson, then, if that's your floor. I've seen $3K Les Pauls that need fret dressing. 

Seriously, this is not a production guitar, it's a prototype.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 22, 2011)

There's a guy selling one on Harmony Central, so I figured they were out.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Nov 22, 2011)

It is a flaw in the sense that if you go out and buy one it could not be properly set up and working right.

If I pay over 2k for a guitar, I expect that I wouldn't have to do ANY work on it. 

I won't buy nor would I buy one if I had the money but it is an issue when having that kind of pricetag


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 22, 2011)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> It is a flaw in the sense that if you go out and buy one it could not be properly set up and working right.
> 
> If I pay over 2k for a guitar, I expect that I wouldn't have to do ANY work on it.
> 
> I won't buy nor would I buy one if I had the money but it is an issue when having that kind of pricetag



You haven't bought any $2k guitars I see. 

Every guitar needs a proper setup when you first get it. From $120 Chinese Strat copies to $12,000 Alembic Series IIs. 

Every player is different so trying to set up a guitar for everyone is just not going to happen. Then throw in the long distance and various climates most guitars go through from factory to distributor to dealer to user. 

When you're paying that much for a guitar you're not paying for it to be set up out of the box, that's just silly, you're paying for quality of materials, quality of components, and level of craftsmanship.


----------



## Michael T (Nov 22, 2011)

The only flaw I see personally is that it doesn't say "Ibanez" on the headstock. 

Seriously though, I agree EVERY guitar will require a personalized setup. Most come factory with a generic "generalized" setup.


----------



## Mindcrime1204 (Nov 22, 2011)

What's the fretboard radius on Ibanez Prestige models compared to the radius of the lo pro, edge pro, and edge trems they come with? Cause if it's similar to the Broderick stats, I've never ever had a prob getting deathly-low action on my Ibbys.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 22, 2011)

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Ibby trems don't match Ibby fretboards. I've never had a problem.


----------



## Fred the Shred (Nov 22, 2011)

craigny said:


> Yeah but for an over 2K pricetag, you shouldn't have to shim anything....



That would be a valid point if the action you need to aim for isn't really VERY low. As it is, 90% of Floyd fitted guitars WILL require shimming of some sort, which is usually present from factory. Considering the production model isn't even out yet, I fail to see how that's a problem - I know I shimmed quite a few very expensive axes when I was hellbent on getting a crazy low action.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 22, 2011)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> What's the fretboard radius on Ibanez Prestige models compared to the radius of the lo pro, edge pro, and edge trems they come with? Cause if it's similar to the Broderick stats, I've never ever had a prob getting deathly-low action on my Ibbys.





Adam Of Angels said:


> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Ibby trems don't match Ibby fretboards. I've never had a problem.



The factory radius of every single Ibanez branded trem is 430mm. That matches the fretboard radius of 99% of Japanese made Ibanez guitars. The only exception is the JS series with it's 305mm radius, but those trems come shimmed from factory. 

The only ones which don't match are MIK and MII models, which have 400mm radius boards, yet still use the 430mm radius trems. 

As for non-Trem guitars, the Gibraltar series TOMs match the fretboard radius of the Artcore, X, and Artist series guitars across the whole line.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 22, 2011)

Aye, alright. I knew the stuff not coming from Japan had that issue, and I assumed there was a slight difference on the Japanese models as well. Good to know, though.


----------



## Larrikin666 (Nov 22, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> There's a guy selling one on Harmony Central, so I figured they were out.



That guitar will be mine soon.


----------



## sell2792 (Nov 22, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> Don't ever buy anything made by Gibson, then, if that's your floor. I've seen $3K Les Pauls that need fret dressing.
> 
> Seriously, this is not a production guitar, it's a prototype.


 

It's just not excusable regardless, especially on a custom shop guitar.
And lets not even get started on Gibson. I could go for days..


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 22, 2011)

Fred the Shred said:


> It's also worth mentioning that such niggles...


 
What'd you say ab my mama???


----------



## ShadyDavey (Nov 22, 2011)

I set up every guitar I've ever bought and now I find a lower action to be more essential I have anything with a trem shimmed appropriately - both are very common procedures and I absolutely wouldn't regard it as an issue, let alone a major one  

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pickups-electronics-general-tech/172037-tremolo-shimming.html

If I can do it _anyone_ can do it and I even know one luthier who does it as standard, as well as re-engineering his Floyd's to his particular liking. He did want me to keep that fact quiet but he's not a million miiles away and deserves some kudos for taking that step


----------



## BigBaldIan (Nov 22, 2011)

Catjive2 said:


> And the few vids of people on YouTube that have them have pretty big problem with them. They need to fix this before they sell them!



After looking on youtube I didn't manage to find a video that corroborated this issue. Please provide links that prove Jackson are shipping production Broderick models incorrectly set up.


----------



## eaeolian (Nov 22, 2011)

BigBaldIan said:


> After looking on youtube I didn't manage to find a video that corroborated this issue. Please provide links that prove Jackson are shipping production Broderick models incorrectly set up.



There aren't any. The one dude with a prototype was complaining about it, which is where he got the "massive flaw" quote.


----------



## BigBaldIan (Nov 22, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> There aren't any. The one dude with a prototype was complaining about it, which is where he got the "massive flaw" quote.



So let's see, very few CB models in the wild and the one complaint is from a prototype. Looks like a low post count troll attempt I guess.

Still guess he got the better of me, because I did check as a CB model is still high on the wish list.


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

I own the Jackson 7 string version. In no way is this a flaw. Most trems are only offered in a few radius. 10,14and15 for the OFR. Gotoh I believe is 14". So unless you have one of those selected radiuses For a fretboard, it won't match . and may need to be shimmed. The funny parts is , most people that play on a trem equipped guitar, would never even notice that it was mismatched. Unless comparing specs.

But in no way is the Chris Broderick Jackson flawed. Its a stellar fucking instrument. By far the nicest, and best play 7string I've ever played .
Jackson did a great job on this one.


----------



## djpharoah (Nov 22, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> There aren't any. The one dude with a prototype was complaining about it, which is where he got the "massive flaw" quote.





This is akin to saying the drivers seat in my new car isn't where I'd like it - WTF is wrong with you guys!!

Dude for 90% of the people the stock shims they put on to get say an 16"/18" it's good enough - but now for those last 10% it's up to them to "customize" the guitar. Remember for a normal Soloist 16" is the end radius of the compound, so minimal shimming is required. For these it's 12" so if you want uber uber low action just shim it aka move your seat where you want it. Also this was a hastily finished Prototype which means they were just trying to finish it off for the clinics.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 22, 2011)

I think a full setup when you buy from a store should be mandatory anyways on guitars $800+.

Even if you just ask they'll usually throw it in for free. I usually tell them whats to stop me from ordering off the internet if they don't want to throw in a free setup? Works every time and even worked for my relatively cheap Seagull!


----------



## djpharoah (Nov 22, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I think a full setup when you buy from a store should be mandatory anyways on guitars $800+.
> 
> Even if you just ask they'll usually throw it in for free. I usually tell them whats to stop me from ordering off the internet if they don't want to throw in a free setup? Works every time and even worked for my relatively cheap Seagull!


Usually yeah - but a lot of guys are antsy to be the first to play/own/touch their new Custom Shops and thus don't want anyone to touch it. I personally don't like to waste time on having someone set up my guitars because I'll end up doing it myself to get it to my tastes.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 22, 2011)

djpharoah said:


> Usually yeah - but a lot of guys are antsy to be the first to play/own/touch their new Custom Shops and thus don't want anyone to touch it. I personally don't like to waste time on having someone set up my guitars because I'll end up doing it myself to get it to my tastes.



That's a good point, there are a lot of incompetent techs that just don't seem to know much 

There's one legitimate guy in town though that I'd have no problem trusting.

http://www.shuriyaguitarcraft.com/ENGLISH/index.html


He's pretty pricey seeing as he's done shit for Nickleback/Metallica/etc... I don't think it's too unreasonable but then why on earth would you pay $100 just to shim something I don't even know


----------



## noodles (Nov 22, 2011)

I guess I'm the only one around here who gets a new guitar, an immediately RAISES the action? I don't see how people can play without fret buzz and slipping off bent strings with slammed action.

Most modern guitars have a compound fretboard radius of some sort, so tell me how a Floyd will match up then.


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

A few pics of the beast


----------



## ShadyDavey (Nov 22, 2011)

Lovely. Just to think a few pence worth of metal cut to shape would have stopped that massive flaw from ruining....

Wait.

FTS! It's fine


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 22, 2011)

noodles said:


> I guess I'm the only one around here who gets a new guitar, an immediately RAISES the action? I don't see how people can play without fret buzz and slipping off bent strings with slammed action.
> 
> Most modern guitars have a compound fretboard radius of some sort, so tell me how a Floyd will match up then.



I definitely don't like it too low, it's like massive tone-suck IMO. Everything just sounds dead-er and less ballsy.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Nov 22, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I definitely don't like it too low, it's like massive tone-suck IMO. Everything just sounds dead-er and less ballsy.



Mine's under 2mm at the 24th fret - sounds fine to me and is really the difference between being able to use my pinky at all and having a vestigial appendage but ofc YMMV. 

I guess I'm used to it - don't get any fret buzz or issues with bending apart from on my GKG which like this CB model has a 12" radius.

But back to the porn.....and that headstock is growing on me


----------



## BigBaldIan (Nov 22, 2011)

ShadyDavey said:


> Lovely. Just to think a few pence worth of metal cut to shape would have stopped that massive flaw from ruining....
> 
> Wait.
> 
> FTS! It's fine



+1

For cfhmachado - may we see some down neck shots just to show how it's set up?


----------



## noob_pwn (Nov 22, 2011)

so much yum
And how the yell is this issue an massive flaw? ahaha that's just ridiculous. May as well buy a guitar with an incorrectly adjusted truss rod and call that a flaw too, or a nut no cut for your gauge of strings, or a bridge with too low an action or a floyd nut sitting too low for your liking.


----------



## craigny (Nov 22, 2011)

well if its a prototype, then i can understand that...i fugired it was a production model as ive seen some of the 6ers being advertised. ..and yes a setup for any guitar is to be expected..even an expensive one, but if your having to add shims on a production model worth over 2k thats bogus, but its all moot if it was a prototype


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

BigBaldIan said:


> +1
> 
> For cfhmachado - may we see some down neck shots just to show how it's set up?



I'll take some when I get home.


----------



## BigBaldIan (Nov 22, 2011)

cfhmachado said:


> I'll take some when I get home.



Thanks, although the action from the photos you've provided looks pretty damned slinky.


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

craigny said:


> well if its a prototype, then i can understand that...i fugired it was a production model as ive seen some of the 6ers being advertised. ..and yes a setup for any guitar is to be expected..even an expensive one, but if your having to add shims on a production model worth over 2k thats bogus, but its all moot if it was a prototype



I'd hate for you to play a BRJ custom shop, If think that's problem. Had to shim the nut and the bridge on a friends guitar. But even at that it was still and excellent instrument.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 22, 2011)

noodles said:


> Most modern guitars have a compound fretboard radius of some sort, so tell me how a Floyd will match up then.


 
Think of a compound radius as a cone (hence being called "conical radius" at times). The nut is closer to the top of the cone (the small circle) with the bridge at the bottom (the large circle). So, ideally, you'd want the bridge to be a continuation of the conical radius. 

At least that's how I understand it.


----------



## craigny (Nov 22, 2011)

Thats why i play hardtails!!...that and im not good enough for Floyds!!


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

I'd love a hardtail version, with an oiled neck.


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)




----------



## djpharoah (Nov 22, 2011)

Dude instead of posting in this thread - make your own NGD and post all the pr0n of that baby up man - it'd definitely get more views than in here.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 22, 2011)

The binding on the fretboard looks hot as hell.


----------



## TimmaethBoy (Nov 22, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> The binding on the fretboard looks hot as hell.



+1


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 22, 2011)

djpharoah said:


> Dude instead of posting in this thread - make your own NGD and post all the pr0n of that baby up man - it'd definitely get more views than in here.



I know, it's just seemed like a good place to defend it. Aswell as to reinsure all you that it's a killer guitar.


----------



## djpharoah (Nov 22, 2011)

cfhmachado said:


> Aswell as to reinsure all you that it's a killer guitar.


Preaching to the choir my friend, the choir


----------



## Animus (Nov 23, 2011)

cfhmachado said:


> I know, it's just seemed like a good place to defend it. Aswell as to reinsure all you that it's a killer guitar.




Yeah I had already been over to the ESP forums when you posted those original pics. Juicy. Wanna sell it?  I have one just like it on order. Hopefully they will go with 5a tops for the production models as I heard they were thinking about.


----------



## cfhmachado (Nov 23, 2011)

I'm interested to see what the production top look like. What color did you order?


----------



## Animus (Nov 23, 2011)

cfhmachado said:


> I'm interested to see what the production top look like. What color did you order?




The same one you got. transblack 7. Actually, I was looking for it back around the time of those clinics but just saw the red and white 7's. You got that from the shop in Reno? I wish I had known; I would have snagged it from you first.  I've been lusting after this guitar since March and it's really frustrating it's taken a year to get released after announced.


----------



## BigBaldIan (Nov 23, 2011)

Well looking at the pictures I can see that 12 inch radius is causing all kinds of havoc with the playability, oh sorry was that the sarcasm meter blowing up.

Anyhow I concur with my learned friends in that cfhmachado's Broderick needs a NGD thread.


----------



## Fred the Shred (Nov 23, 2011)

The funny part is that I was actually praising the quality of the Jackson CS on my Voklecast last night. I just made a retrospective of the US Jacksons I had played and, for obvious reasons, the CS stuff sprang to mind - it's just so consistent high quality stuff it isn't even funny. But be careful, as you may need to...


...shim a trem.


----------



## craigny (Nov 23, 2011)

Shimming of saddles or not that is a nice guitar...love the body shape...yeah id love a hardtail version, but that thing is killer!


----------



## Fred the Shred (Nov 23, 2011)

Should there be only a trem version, locking a trem is quite an easy task, to be honest. If you really dig the guitar, you shouldn't let that hold you back, mate.


----------



## craigny (Nov 23, 2011)

Nah im just not into Floyds...I know its easy to lock, they just aint for me, plenty of hardtails out there for me!


----------



## eaeolian (Nov 23, 2011)

ShadyDavey said:


> Mine's under 2mm at the 24th fret - sounds fine to me and is really the difference between being able to use my pinky at all and having a vestigial appendage but ofc YMMV.
> 
> I guess I'm used to it - don't get any fret buzz or issues with bending apart from on my GKG which like this CB model has a 12" radius.



It all depends on how hard you pick, actually. Dave and I have our action on what a lot of people would say is the higher side because we both bash the crap out it with our right hands.


----------



## Church2224 (Nov 23, 2011)

Fred the Shred said:


> The funny part is that I was actually praising the quality of the Jackson CS on my Voklecast last night. I just made a retrospective of the US Jacksons I had played and, for obvious reasons, the CS stuff sprang to mind - it's just so consistent high quality stuff it isn't even funny. But be careful, as you may need to...
> 
> 
> ...shim a trem.



You know if Fred approves of it, it is going to be pretty damn awesome gear 

Also to add, my Carvin DC400CW Has an OFR but it has a 12 inch radius. Honestly I am not sure if Carvin shims them from the factory or not but I do not have any problems at all with it tbh.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Nov 24, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> It all depends on how hard you pick, actually. Dave and I have our action on what a lot of people would say is the higher side because we both bash the crap out it with our right hands.





Fair comment dude - mine's reasonably gentle so I keep it on the low side....even if some would lambaste me for tonal reasons ^^ 

Interesting to see the trem on this Jackson - looks very comfortable indeed and I do hope it gets a more general release.


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 24, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> You know if Fred approves of it, it is going to be pretty damn awesome gear
> 
> Also to add, my Carvin DC400CW Has an OFR but it has a 12 inch radius. Honestly I am not sure if Carvin shims them from the factory or not but I do not have any problems at all with it tbh.



I know , having mine apart, that they do not. Mine has a14" radius and I also have no problems. Infact it is the lowest action guitar I have around. Not to be confused with my favourite though.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 24, 2011)

Man fuck the fb vs trem radiusing. Why are those maple caps so mediocre?


----------



## Animus (Nov 24, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Man fuck the fb vs trem radiusing. Why are those maple caps so mediocre?




I don't think marchado's transblack (or should I say mine now) is bad at all.


----------



## xCaptainx (Nov 24, 2011)

Beautiful guitar. 

Not that I know much about guitar setup or tech details, but isnt it a bit weird to be criticise the setup of a signature model setup? I mean ,presumably every single spec on that guitar was made for the signature artist, and not you?


----------



## chris9 (Nov 25, 2011)

all i can say is mine is perfect it has a super low action and it plays amazing but to be fair it was built by mike shannon himself so i guess it has to be amazing!!!! love mine so much


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2011)

Animus said:


> I don't think marchado's transblack (or should I say mine now) is bad at all.


 
I dunno... Every time I see them it looks like the figuring is just barely noticeable. I figured he'd have something a little prettier, but then again it's not my sig.


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> I dunno... Every time I see them it looks like the figuring is just barely noticeable. I figured he'd have something a little prettier, but then again it's not my sig.



Believe it or not, some people actually WANT more subdued figuring  I have gotten the over the top figuring crap out of my system too, so.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 25, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Believe it or not, some people actually WANT more subdued figuring  I have gotten the over the top figuring crap out of my system too, so.



It's been pretty much admitted that these have sub-par tops, as they were prototypes that Jackson HAD to push out for a clinic. 

I'm not entirely sure what that says about Jackson's CS, but I know I would never buy one with a top like some I've seen. Though, the word is that they will be getting better, so I guess we'll wait and see.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't see anything over the top about having a pretty figured top if you choose to have one. If it's going to be as subdued as the ones I've seen it seems they might as well not have them at all.


----------



## rpr154 (Jul 4, 2012)

So, sorry about calling it a massive flaw, but it was infact set up incorrectly. For those of you that didn't believe me, Thats okay, Jackson didn't believe me at first either.. They did eventually figure it out, and relayed the message to Floyd Rose. I actually just recieved The correctly set up bridge from them the other day. They also sent me a shimmed bridge after they first verified the problem. The guitar is great now. Also, I mentioned in one of my reviews that the pickups weren't very High output. They're actually fine. The threeway selecter in the guitar was causing resistance issues and not allowing the pickups to deliver there full output. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## technomancer (Jul 4, 2012)

rpr154 said:


> So, sorry about calling it a massive flaw, but it was infact set up incorrectly. For those of you that didn't believe me, Thats okay, Jackson didn't believe me at first either.. They did eventually figure it out, and relayed the message to Floyd Rose. I actually just recieved The correctly set up bridge from them the other day. They also sent me a shimmed bridge after they first verified the problem. The guitar is great now. Also, I mentioned in one of my reviews that the pickups weren't very High output. They're actually fine. The threeway selecter in the guitar was causing resistance issues and not allowing the pickups to deliver there full output. Sorry for any confusion.



Sounds like, as a bunch of the folks here said, it was a prototype issue that Jackson corrected


----------



## Nonservium (Jul 4, 2012)

Glad your axe got fixed, I'd love to have one of these but will never afford it. All that being said WHERE ARE THE PICS!?


----------



## rpr154 (Jul 4, 2012)

Since I just joined Sevenstring like an hour ago, I still havn't figured out how to upload anything yet. And for the record: the only person that believed me that I had a problem with my guitar was Chris Broderick. He's the one who went to bat for me with Jackson. We thought mine might have been an isolated issue, but when Jackson sent me a replaicment bridge that was the same as the original, we learned that it was in fact a logistical issue on the part of Floyd. Chris Actually had Jackson shave down some of his saddles, rather than shim them, to creat the proper radius for his guitars. I'll see if I can put up some picks for you.


----------



## rpr154 (Jul 4, 2012)

If someone would be so kind as to tell me how the heck to upload photos, that would be awesome..


----------



## potatohead (Jul 4, 2012)

Pretty common thing actually. You can shim the center ones or shave the outer ones, doesn't really matter but the bridge will sit slightly higher in the body if you prefer to shave the outer ones. I've had both a Jackson and a Carvin I had to pull the shim out of. Most OFR nuts are only around 10" radius also unless Jackson is special ordering a different radius.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Jul 5, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I dunno... Every time I see them it looks like the figuring is just barely noticeable. I figured he'd have something a little prettier, but then again it's not my sig.


 
If we have learned ANYTHING from Chris's LACS...
You will be able to fap to his real cs.


----------

