# 'Octo' microtonal 8-output ERG by Ari Lehtela for Liburn Jupolli



## ixlramp (Mar 31, 2011)

"A new addition to the eight string guitars is the new instrument called the "Octo".It is a costum built 8 string guitar based on ideas of young Kosovar composer/pianist/bassist Liburn Jupolli(of Kosovar bands Clockwork and The Freelancers) The Octo is buil...t by the Finish/American luthier Ari Lehtela of the Lehtela Guitar Factory(North Carolina). Its range of tones is from low E of standard bass guitar to the highest D of a standard guitar.Tuned - EAGDCEAD. It also has an addition of 43 frets having two microtonal seperations per semitone interval till the 7th fret, continuing with one microtonal seperation till the 12 fret and till the 24 fret a standard semitonal seperation.Includes also 8 string seperation from one Kent Armstrong costum humbucker pickup concluding to the use of every string separately with 8 individual outputs.Liburn uses every string with a seperate output and nearly every string with a different set of effects."

Lehtela Guitar Craft | Luthier | Charlotte, NC | Guitar Classes


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## Aerospace274 (Mar 31, 2011)

Eight different outputs?! Why would that be useful? (Serious question)


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## MikeH (Mar 31, 2011)

Read the last sentence. Basically every string sounds different and can have different effects run on it.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Mar 31, 2011)

The knob placement is... questionable.


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## Aerospace274 (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah, I got that. But why? Like, "This is my wah wah string" "I run this string through a Triple Rec and this one through a JCM" Seems sort of counter intuitive to make an instrument that won't mesh with itself doesn't it? 
Anywho, kind of odd but pretty interesting. It'd take balls to play on a microtonal set up like that! I'd probably never get used to it lol.


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## Explorer (Mar 31, 2011)

I've probably pointed this out in a previous thread with a similar instrument, but I have yet to really hear anyone compose something ruly compelling using such an instrument. I look forward to being impressed....


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## SD83 (Mar 31, 2011)

If one would put the four knobs on the upper side of the guitar to the lower side (and maybe remove frets 19-24 as it doesn't look they are comfortably reachable due to the lack of a cutaway) and then put all the strings to one output (or two... one for the four lowest strings and one for the four highest strings) I'd love to have that "guitar". As it is, it looks uncomfortable to play and I agree with Explorer, I have yet to hear someone come up with a piece of music that uses even half the possiblities of the 8 different outputs...
EDIT: Did I mention that, upper knobs and highest frets aside, it looks great?


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## yingmin (Mar 31, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I've probably pointed this out in a previous thread with a similar instrument, but I have yet to really hear anyone compose something ruly compelling using such an instrument. I look forward to being impressed....



The only microtonal music I've heard that I found particularly interesting was played on fretless instruments, and even then, it was mostly semitonal with microtones thrown in for flavor.

edit: wait, were you talking about the microtonality, or the separate outputs? Either way, I agree with you.


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## ShreddingDragon (Mar 31, 2011)

Unique output for each string... this is something new. Nice


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## jrg828 (Mar 31, 2011)

i was just thinking the other day why nobody has made something like this yet. chords with the option to level out certain strings to make desired note more dominant would be really cool, from a recording perspective. i think i would be to complicated live though


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## Deadnightshade (Mar 31, 2011)

1)Make it midi capable
2)Plug it in Superior Drummer
3)???
4)Profit


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## Variant (Mar 31, 2011)

> Unique output for each string... this is something new. Nice



Ummm... not really. Guitars/basses have been available with divided pickups for years now. All Roland's GK stuff works this way. Some guys even make breakout boxes for them. 



Anyway, cool gutfiddle. The world needs more microtonal madness.


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## Nyx Erebos (Mar 31, 2011)

It's maybe a stupid question but, just one neck pickup ? Well I guess that with one output for each string you can easily modify the sound.


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## luca9583 (Mar 31, 2011)

The individual ouptut for each string concept can be traced back to Van Halen's "Top Jimmy", which was recorded with a Kramer Ripley stereo guitar. That guitar had a pan pot for each pole piece of the pickup so you could pan individual strings anywhere in the stereo spectrum.

Paul Rubenstein makes custom hexaphonic pickups with breakout boxes: hexaphonic guitar pickups and can also make octaphonic pickups for 8 string guitar too.

Gison also makes the Les Paul HD 6X Pro, a digital guitar which also uses a hexaphonic pickup and breakout box.

I like the look of this Kent Armstrong octaphonic pickup on the Lehtela above..i'm looking for something similar for my Novax 8 but angled.

Shame this Lehtela has no bridge pickup!


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## Demiurge (Mar 31, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I've probably pointed this out in a previous thread with a similar instrument, but I have yet to really hear anyone compose something ruly compelling using such an instrument. I look forward to being impressed....



You are more charitable than I. 

I like to think that I'm open-minded enough, but sometimes I set my eyes on some of these experiment instruments and think to myself, "the music that somebody's going to try to make with this is probably going to annoy the bejeezus out of me."


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## Nile (Mar 31, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> Yeah, I got that. But why? Like, "This is my wah wah string" "I run this string through a Triple Rec and this one through a JCM" Seems sort of counter intuitive to make an instrument that won't mesh with itself doesn't it?
> Anywho, kind of odd but pretty interesting. It'd take balls to play on a microtonal set up like that! I'd probably never get used to it lol.


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## Murdstone (Mar 31, 2011)

It's been posted before but this guy makes great use of microtones.


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## Variant (Mar 31, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> Yeah, I got that. But why? Like, "This is my wah wah string" "I run this string through a Triple Rec and this one through a JCM" Seems sort of counter intuitive to make an instrument that won't mesh with itself doesn't it?
> Anywho, kind of odd but pretty interesting. It'd take balls to play on a microtonal set up like that! I'd probably never get used to it lol.



Well, you're looking at it from the furthest extreme possible, with huge tonal variations from string-to-string.  Think more basic. 

Take simply panning, for instance: You can pan each string to a different location in the sound field, hexapan as Roland calls it, whereas a configuration can be made where the sixth string and first strings could be panned to the furthest extents of the sound field, and the middle four could be placed accordingly in between, so as you strummed a chord or moved across an arpeggio or sweep, the sound moves left or right. Alternating 6th=hard left, 5th=hard right, 4th=hard left, and so on, can create a string dependent ping pong effect as well. 

Also, something to keep in mind about distorting individual strings is that: 1. you're generally setting up similar tonal settings per string (though it may be somewhat advantageous to tweak a bit as you go across the range), and 2. you're distorting them individually *AFTER* they're divided up, so playing chords are more akin to tracking several single note guitars in a "overdubbed harmony" fashion as opposed to a single signal of say, three notes, all being distorted together. This is a whole different sound altogether.

Anywho, I could go on. It's not about putting wildly different effects on each string (though that's always an option), but rather for treating the strings across a range with subtitle differences, or breaking up zones (like harmonizing the top three and not the bottom three)... and with the right devices most of this stuff can be done in *ONE BOX* and need not require a cumbersome rig (not to mention run parallel to your existing rig, keeping that option as well).


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## maliciousteve (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah, but can it do djent?


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## -42- (Mar 31, 2011)

Buy extended multi-output microtonal custom built guitar from a custom luthier. 

Only play open notes on the top string.


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## Underworld (Mar 31, 2011)

I've read in some old guitar magazine that Steve Morse already did that 10-15 years ago with a 6 string acoustic. Each string had a separate output and was panned differently into the mix. The result, supposedly (never heard it), gave the impression that the listener was _inside_ the resonance box of the guitar!


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## Hollowway (Mar 31, 2011)

I know this seems a little extreme, and that it would be hard to compose standard music on it, but I don't think the point of an instrument like this is to make regular music. These sorts of things are envelope pushers, and what we actually do make use of may be substantially less than what this offers, but it's important to push the envelope so we can grow and learn more. That's just the way innovation is. If it weren't for musicians and luthiers like that then 7 string, 8 string, baritone, effects, metal, none of that would exist. We take 8 strings for granted now, and we don't expect a composer to write music that involves every string equally. So why would this guitar require someone to have a different sound for each string? The point is it gives an option, and if I want to have the lowest 3 strings sent to one amp, and the highest 5 to another, but someone else wants the split at 4 and 4, it still works. Personally, I vote for more of this sort of thing.


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## ixlramp (Mar 31, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I've probably pointed this out in a previous thread with a similar instrument, but I have yet to really hear anyone compose something ruly compelling using such an instrument. I look forward to being impressed....



Despite being obsessed with microtonal guitars, all my favourite microtonal music is electronic, I guess because there are so many more composers working that way. There are so few microtonal guitarists around it makes it even less likely you will find music you like.


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## AxeHappy (Mar 31, 2011)

According to one of my teachers in College, Manowar's bassist had his 4 strings each with separate output. Considering he produced 2 of their albums I'll trust him. 

It was more about tweaking the individual sound out of each string than doing wacky different stuff on each string for him.


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## Explorer (Mar 31, 2011)

-42- said:


> Buy extended multi-output microtonal custom built guitar from a custom luthier.
> 
> Only play open notes on the top string.



I think you meant "fretted" instead of "open," but you're right in that there was only one composition which had more than two chords. Most of it relied on open-note chords, or having just two voices sounding.

I keep hearing about how great this kind of set-up would be to make chords sound better. For whatever reason, though, I keep waiting to hear something cool and listenable, even just to the level of America's "Sister Goldenhair"... but I'm still waiting. 

That video seemed like someone just wanted to make an oud-like instrument, but with movable metal frets. I could pick up a cassette in any shop that sells leather goods from lots of countries where the music sounds just the same. Give me something unique....


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## ixlramp (Apr 1, 2011)

Demiurge said:


> ... sometimes I set my eyes on some of these experiment instruments and think to myself, "the music that somebody's going to try to make with this is probably going to annoy the bejeezus out of me."



That usually happens to me when I look at a Fender


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## Variant (Apr 1, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I keep hearing about how great this kind of set-up would be to make chords sound better. For whatever reason, though, I keep waiting to hear something cool and listenable, even just to the level of America's "Sister Goldenhair"... but I'm still waiting.



I like what Jon Catler had done with microtonal guitars. The last M.A.N record (though not overused) was cool as well.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 1, 2011)

Ibz_rg said:


> Read the last sentence. Basically every string sounds different and can have different effects run on it.


 
Konfyouzd's mind = blown... Where's the emote for that shit?


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## ixlramp (Apr 1, 2011)

Even by microtonal standards, this guitar is a strange one. It has 36EDO (sixth tone), 24EDO (quartertone) and 12EDO (semitone) areas on the fretboard (EDO = Equal Divisions of the Octave). Whereas both 36EDO and 24EDO contain 12EDO, 36EDO does not contain 24EDO. So 36EDO and 24EDO microtonal scales are confined to their respective areas on the fretboard.


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## ixlramp (Apr 2, 2011)

Matthew Grasso, Nada Brahma ensemble. 14 tone Just Intonation guitar.







Matthew Grasso | Guitars


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 2, 2011)

If i had isolated string outputs, i would run them at different gains and stuff. Heavy compression with a hardassed attack on each string, then into boost and then amp model, and with less gain for each higher string. 

That wouldn't get you the sound of notes clashing into the distortion though, so splitting the strings into lows and highs, and processing them as such, would be better for that.

For cleans and athmospheric stuff though, the chances are endless.

Oh, and here's a cool idea: different pre-distortion eq for each string! With each higher string you move the boosted frequency higher, so that the overall timbres of the strings are emphasized, so when tremolo picking, each string will have a strong individual sound, you know? Instead of boosting the same frequencies on all strings.

I should hqve this done some time. But i would need to have good pickups too, as i'm a difficult bastard to please


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## Explorer (Apr 2, 2011)

Regarding the string panning...

There have been times when I've run a particular instrument/track through a stereo 31-band graphic equalizer, and instead of doing comb filtering, I've done a variation where I've had different bands placed in different parts of the stereo field. 

Since EQs don't have ganged sliders, I've instead run pink or white noise through both sides, collapsed the stereo signal to mono, and watched the output on an analyzer to be sure the levels were consistent. When you listen to the stereo signal, a chromatic run seems to bound all over the place, and if what you're running through is the same figure or loop being repeated, you get a consistent panning effect.

It can be very sparkly or spacy, depending on what you're running through it....


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 2, 2011)

I'd love to hear it. 

Until then, the only verdict I can give is: nifty.


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## caparison_x (Apr 8, 2011)

The frets go to infinity


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## Jango (Apr 8, 2011)

Now I have to get an Octo pup for my guitar...dammit...thanks guys.


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## luca9583 (Apr 8, 2011)

Listen to "Top Jimmy" by Van Halen for the best recorded example of string panning:

 

Check out how it enhances the harmonies in the chords and gives a psuedo double tracked sound at times


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## Tom Drinkwater (Apr 9, 2011)

I have messed around with a Godin Multiac Jazz through a breakout box before and I absolutely loved it. We ran it into a behringer mixer and added effects to a couple of the strings and panned them all over the place. The headphone mix was incredible, it was a very trippy experience the first time. The owner of the Godin and the breakout box has been bugging me to make a 6 string with individual outs for 2 years now, I may have to do it now that I know Kent Armstrong will make the pickups. Here is another place that does them too:
hexaphonic guitar pickups


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