# Burning Hot Metal Takes



## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 9, 2022)

Time to die on a hill yall, what's your opinion that might be wrong but you stick by no matter what regarding metal or rock of any form?

I got a few

1. The Sound of Perserverance was a shining example of melodic death metal and Death was the OG melodeath band

2. Knocked Loose is just Norma Jean but tuned lower and with all the angst turned up to 11

3. Slow Job for a Cowboy songs are Avenged Sevenfold songs with harsh vocals 

4. Angelmaker is what I expected Lorna Shore to be and Lorna Shore isn't actually as heavy as people say, in fact symphonic deathcore like that is on the softer side of metal

5. Midtempo groove based thrash is better than endless 0-0-0-0 gallop riffs, ex. Electric Crown by Testament opposed to Angel of Death


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## Accoun (Jul 9, 2022)

Slayer should have been contractually obligated to include no more than one track over 3:30, maybe just 3:00, of actual music (so stuff like the atmospheric outro in Raining Blood doesn't count) per album.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 9, 2022)

Opeth made a mistake


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 9, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> Opeth made a mistake



in the same vein Gojira is doing the same sorta thing but doing it right


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## Mathemagician (Jul 9, 2022)

I will alternate pick gallops until the day I day.


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## gunch (Jul 9, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Time to die on a hill yall, what's your opinion that might be wrong but you stick by no matter what regarding metal or rock of any form?
> 
> I got a few
> 
> ...


1. I can totally buy that Chuck picked up some melodeath influence toward the end but I wouldn't say Death is a progenitor of melodeath. 
2. I don't have enough experience with new Norma Jean or Knocked Loose to make a comparison other than the vocal styles are starkly different
3. Couldn't say
4. ..
5. There is a place for fast, brutal thrash like Demolition Hammer, Sadus, Aspid and Beneath the Remains/Arise Sepultura

My lukewarm takes:

Psycroptic hasn't been good since the Inherited Repression 
Immolation's first 2 albums are way better than Unholy Cult or Close to a World Below 
Pig Destroyer's apex is actually the Gnob split and not Prowler in the Yard 
Doug Cerrito was the secret sauce to pre-Despise the Sun Suffocation and the first Hate Eternal LP


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.


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## Thesius (Jul 9, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.


Take it back


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 9, 2022)

1. Ghost is an awful blue oyster cult tribute band masquerading as a metal band.
2. Spawn of Possession is still the undisputed pinnacle of tech death.
3. Loathe is just a Deftones tribute band.
4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.
5. Kreator is singlehandedly heavier and more consistent than all of the big 4 of thrash.


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## SexHaver420 (Jul 9, 2022)

95% of tech death is awful. Anata and some Gorod and stuff like that are cool cuz they have like actual structure and riffs and some grooves and stuff don't just wank to wank like Archspire or something.


Symbolic or maybe Human is the best Death album.


Metalcore and Djent are bad and I have no idea why so many posters on this site like those genres.


The past few Gojira albums have been as terrible as the past few Opeth albums. Witherscape is just the good modern version of Opeth anyway and Dan Swano has better vocals than Mikael Akerfeldt.

Attach files


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## MetalheadMC (Jul 9, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.


100% what I came to say


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## Turd Ferguson (Jul 9, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 5. Kreator is singlehandedly heavier and more consistent than all of the big 4 of thrash.


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## tian (Jul 9, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> 2. Knocked Loose is just Norma Jean but tuned lower and with all the angst turned up to 11


I agree about this for the first two albums but their new EP legitimately elevates past angst and is a solid soundtrack for real trauma imo.


NoodleFace said:


> Opeth made a mistake


Mistake? Didn't they stop putting out albums after Watershed...?


Decapitated said:


> The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.


Boo this man!


KnightBrolaire said:


> 4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.


I think it was on here that someone called them "everyone's favorite Gojiracore band.." and I've been laughing ever since. That and enjoying the music.


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## Emperoff (Jul 9, 2022)

Inferi has rendered any other death metal band in the planet obsolete.


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## Crungy (Jul 9, 2022)

Maybe not flaming hot, but a recent listen to Reroute to Remain didn't sound like total garbage and slapped harder than I remembered. Maybe I need my ears checked.


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## Thesius (Jul 9, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Maybe not flaming hot, but a recent listen to Reroute to Remain didn't sound like total garbage and slapped harder than I remembered. Maybe I need my ears checked.


I was gonna say this. I like up to A Sense of Purpose. Everything following is not my cup of tea


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

Death fucking sucks. Fuck Chuck Schuldiner...he wasn't all that special. He had the Aaliyah ending where he died and his death blew him up to be this amazing talent when he wasn't all that and had he still been around he would have been a "where are they now".


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> Death fucking sucks. Fuck Chuck Schuldiner...he wasn't all that special. He had the Aaliyah ending where he died and his death blew him up to be this amazing talent when he wasn't all that and had he still been around he would have been a "where are they now".


Death By Metal really opened my eyes to how difficult he was to work with.


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## nickgray (Jul 9, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> Death fucking sucks


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

nickgray said:


> View attachment 110406


Don't @ me, you simple bitches. I said what the fuck I said


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## Emperoff (Jul 9, 2022)

So is this "unpopular opinions thread 2.0"?


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> So is this "unpopular opinions thread 2.0"?


No. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to display my burning hatred for Death.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 9, 2022)

1.) Meshuggah and Mick Gordon styles of djent where there's no random weedly-deedly and has far more groove is the pinnacle of that style of music, which is to say they're awesome, and the rest is a waste of time.

2.) Ghost are cheesy as hell, but I still like some of their stuff. Also, it's not exactly a hot take to hate on Ghost. I find more musical integrity in Ghost than a lot of progressive/djent bands. Give me the old style of rock and base it around Satanism, as played out as it is, it's still better than a bunch of tryhards that neuter amps like a 5150 for downtuning, name their band some rudimentary level terms describing math or science, and poorly mimic Meshuggah while simultaneously throwing little dashes of Tosin, Petrucci, and whoever else they worship. If I wanted to hear that much quack in a guitar tone with nothing to show for it, I'd would just go to the nearest park to visit the ducks.


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> 1.) Meshuggah and Mick Gordon styles of djent where there's no random weedly-deedly and has far more groove is the pinnacle of that style of music, which is to say they're awesome, and the rest is a waste of time.
> 
> 2.) Ghost are cheesy as hell, but I still like some of their stuff. Also, it's not exactly a hot take to hate on Ghost. I find more musical integrity in Ghost than a lot of progressive/djent bands. Give me the old style of rock and base it around Satanism, as played out as it is, it's still better than a bunch of tryhards that neuter amps like a 5150 for downtuning, name their band some rudimentary level terms describing math or science, and poorly mimic Meshuggah while simultaneously throwing little dashes of Tosin, Petrucci, and whoever else they worship. If I wanted to hear that much quack in a guitar tone with nothing to show for it, I'd would just go to the nearest park to visit the ducks.


Ya know, Ghost after they stopped sounding like a Scooby Doo band is actually pretty good. I used to hate them and I recently listened to them and dare I say some of it is actually pretty good.


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## Blytheryn (Jul 9, 2022)

Modern well produced metal bands with clean aesthetics will never be as cool as the old school.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 9, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> Ya know, Ghost after they stopped sounding like a Scooby Doo band is actually pretty good. I used to hate them and I recently listened to them and dare I say some of it is actually pretty good.


 
See I don't even know at what time period that was. I just know that I've heard enough of their songs to conclude that they're not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. I've heard it put from someone that Ghost are a rip-off of H.I.M. when they sound literally NOTHING alike.  I just know I got more enjoyment listening to Cirice or Secular Haze than most modern metal. Then again, I'm a fan of the older style in general.


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## nickgray (Jul 9, 2022)

Cradle of Filth are a prog metal band

Archspire's last two albums are the best thing since Necrophagist

Kalmah's downfall after the first two albums is one of the saddest chapters in melodic death

Opeth never realized their full potential (this is not related to the style shift, mind you)

Core, Djent, modern overproduced metal, are all a mistake

Crimson III > Necrophagist III >>>>>>>>>>>> Half-Life 3


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> Ya know, Ghost after they stopped sounding like a Scooby Doo band is actually pretty good. I used to hate them and I recently listened to them and dare I say some of it is actually pretty good.


No. Just no.


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> No. Just no.


Yeah I can't hum any songs from memory or anything but the songs I heard I was expecting to be horrendous and they weren't. I probably wouldn't buy the music but if it came on I wouldn't make a dive to turn it off.


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## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 9, 2022)

James Hetfield should be exiled from society for his voice. 

Also Trivium and similar are butt rock with breakdowns and solos and it took me almost 20 years to make that connection.


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

C.C. DeVille was criminally underrated in the 80s.


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## STRHelvete (Jul 9, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> James Hetfield should be exiled from society for his voice.


This motherfucker is so wrong he had to make an alt account and make this his first post.

Which one of you is this?


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## GenghisCoyne (Jul 9, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.


you fucked up. all 17 people in the world who listen to ghost are active posters here.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 9, 2022)

trap beats + metal riffs+ bad rapping+people who can't sing in key needs to fucking stop. It's like nu metal 2.0 ffs.

Polyphia is just hipster math rock for zoomers and coomers


Tomb Mold is one of the least interesting bands to come out the newest wave of american death metal. I literally fell asleep during their last album. Vitriol is a close second.

Carbomb is just djent with more weewoo noises

Deafheaven was only good for their first album


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## Phlegethon (Jul 9, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> If I wanted to hear that much quack in a guitar tone with nothing to show for it, I'd would just go to the nearest park to visit the ducks.


I thought this thread was for hot takes, not murder


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## Chanson (Jul 9, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.



Ghost? Over rated for sure. But this is a thread about metal. Ghost aren't a metal band.


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## Chanson (Jul 9, 2022)

Doom metal has some really amazing artists and bands, but like 99% of the genre is the most boring and unimaginative shit ever. Basically all bands sound nearly identical and don't deviate from the same simple and overused formula.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 9, 2022)

Chanson said:


> Doom metal has some really amazing artists and bands, but like 99% of the genre is the most boring and unimaginative shit ever. Basically all bands sound nearly identical and don't deviate from the same simple and overused formula.


You just described nearly every metal subgenre lmao


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 9, 2022)

It was said before but Peace Sells > RiP.


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## Chanson (Jul 9, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> You just described nearly every metal subgenre lmao



I diagree. I think it is way easier to find bands in other sub genres that experiment a lot more and are even hard to define and describe their sound. Sure, there are a lot of death and black metal bands that just copy the same shit that's been done before. But I think there's wayyyyyy more bands that fuck with the DM and BM formula and bring in new ideas and sounds compared to Doom.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 9, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> C.C. DeVille was criminally underrated in the 80s.


When he was good he was good, but apparently half the time he was drunk/high as fuck and couldn't play for shit.


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## Crungy (Jul 9, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Carbomb is just djent with more weewoo noises


You're definitely not wrong but I don't mind some weewoo and constantly changing time signatures here and there


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## BenjaminW (Jul 9, 2022)

Seventh Star is an incredibly underrated Black Sabbath album. Yes, it's technically a Tony Iommi solo album but the songs are still great regardless.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 9, 2022)

Crungy said:


> You're definitely not wrong but I don't mind some weewoo and constantly changing time signatures here and there


I like Carbomb but greg really abuses that DT whammy more than Tom Morello in his RATM days.


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It was said before but Peace Sells > RiP.


So Far So Good > Peace Sells > RiP


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## mmr007 (Jul 9, 2022)

More old school but ACDC used to be considered metal so while I hate and detest Brian Johnson’s voice more than anything….musically the Fly on the Wall album is far superior to Back in Black and its not close

Also Judas Priest’s Turbo is one of their best albums. Not as “heavy” as the albums that bookend it but song quality wise it is a fantastic album…only took me 30+ years to realize it. 

Also Guns n Roses have always been overrated.


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## ExMachina (Jul 9, 2022)

The periphery dudes should just do haunted shores from now on.


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## Crungy (Jul 9, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I like Carbomb but greg really abuses that DT whammy more than Tom Morello in his RATM days.


It's definitely his schtick with the ADHD song structuring


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 9, 2022)

BenjaminW said:


> Seventh Star is an incredibly underrated Black Sabbath album. Yes, it's technically a Tony Iommi solo album but the songs are still great regardless.


Kinda in the same vein but Eternal Idol is my favorite non-Ozzy Sabbath album.


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## nickgray (Jul 9, 2022)

Chanson said:


> I think it is way easier to find bands in other sub genres that experiment a lot more



A lot of the legendary 90s doom bands ended up experimenting tons. Though I suppose it's fair to say that most have strayed from doom quite a bit.



Chanson said:


> and bring in new ideas and sounds compared to Doom



It's also a more limiting genre by its nature - you can't have wacky 220bpm doom, for example. It has to crush your soul, even a little bit. It ain't doom otherwise.


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## MFB (Jul 9, 2022)

Shitting on Ghost isn't brave or edgy, it's one branch above FFDP memes.

Hell, shitting on 99% of the current mainstream metal bands doesn't make you edgy either. Try giving an actual hot take for once.


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

MFB said:


> Shitting on Ghost isn't brave or edgy, it's one branch above FFDP memes.
> 
> Hell, shitting on 99% of the current mainstream metal bands doesn't make you edgy either. Try giving an actual hot take for once.


No one is trying to be edgy or brave, chief.


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## MFB (Jul 9, 2022)

Then it's not much of a "hot take" is it then considering the majority of the site would be in agreement? In the real world, it's probably closer to 50/50 for those who actually know them.


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

So we agree Ghost sucks. Cool. Luke warm take. Works for me. Carry on.


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## bostjan (Jul 9, 2022)

I love Death, but, honestly, Chuck was just kind of making sure he was the second or third to do everything. Not saying he was a poser (I'm a fan), but I wonder if anyone would have cared had it not been for his work with fantastic side men.

I miss the heyday of hardcore bands (earlyish 2000's). Sure, the music could be really same-y, but the scene was fun and the bands had great work ethics.

CC Deville was never underrated. People worshipped him in the 80's, and he could barely play live.

Everything that is dumb about pop music applies to metal as well, just in different proportions (sometimes).


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 9, 2022)

the LANDMVRKS guitar tone is everything wrong with modern metal gear and it's fucking glorious


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## Decapitated (Jul 9, 2022)

bostjan said:


> CC Deville was never underrated. People worshipped him in the 80's, and he could barely play live.


Did you grow up in the 80s? I did. C.C. never got the recognition he deserved from the guitar playing community in my opinion. He was mocked and made fun of for the most part. Did people love him? Sure, but not respected for his playing.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 9, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> So is this "unpopular opinions thread 2.0"?



It's the reboot to the sequel to the remake of the prequel.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 9, 2022)

djent makes me miss mallcore


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 9, 2022)

First reply was about how Slayer sucked and it only took 6 replies to mention Ghost; I expected nothing less from SSO. 

My super important opinion is that shred is boring as fuck, especially if that's your whole shtick. This is why I can't listen to almost any virtuoso players.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 10, 2022)

Chanson said:


> Doom metal has some really amazing artists and bands, but like 99% of the genre is the most boring and unimaginative shit ever. Basically all bands sound nearly identical and don't deviate from the same simple and overused formula.


Sorry for the double post but when I started using Spotify and liked a few doom songs and made a playlist, it took like a year and a half of filtering to get Spotify to stop recommending me generic stoner bullshit. Agree with your assessment completely.


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## BenjaminW (Jul 10, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> My super important opinion is that shred is boring as fuck, especially if that's your whole shtick. This is why I can't listen to almost any virtuoso players.


Don't get me wrong I love shred and a lot of my favorite guitarists are shredders, but it's super difficult for me to listen to virtuoso/instrumental guitarists even if it's music by guitarists I like that do that stuff. 

There's always at least one song or a handful of songs by those kinds of guitarists I like, but after that it tends to get really old for me really fast. I just start tuning it out and will forget I'm listening to their music in the first place.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 10, 2022)

A lot of metal bands got big because they were able to stay together and reliably turn up to play shows rather than having musical talent or ability.

If Jari Maenpaa took all his A+ material and made a concise album it would be one of the best metal albums. 

Steve Vai’s best work was on Whitesnake’s Slip of the Tongue. 

Eskimo(Electric) Callboy are one of the most talented bands in music.

99% of bands should never mix their own albums. And no band should ever master their own album.


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## bostjan (Jul 10, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> Did you grow up in the 80s? I did. C.C. never got the recognition he deserved from the guitar playing community in my opinion. He was mocked and made fun of for the most part. Did people love him? Sure, but not respected for his playing.


Yup. I'll even triple down and say that there were hundreds of players way better than CC who I bet you never heard of. He got to play in the biggest hair metal band and got called out by name in the songs. He appeared on magazine covers and was a household name. What more do you want?

CC's replacement was a better musician, better guitarist, and better person all around, yet is less well-known.


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## Decapitated (Jul 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Yup. I'll even triple down and say that there were hundreds of players way better than CC who I bet you never heard of. He got to play in the biggest hair metal band and got called out by name in the songs. He appeared on magazine covers and was a household name. What more do you want?
> 
> CC's replacement was a better musician, better guitarist, and better person all around, yet is less well-known.


I didn’t say he wasn’t well known or that he wasn’t famous. I am talking about recognition from the guitar playing community. Sure, there were tons of players that never reached his level of fame, but he was mocked for the most part. I must have lost my issues of Guitar World with him on the cover. Not music mags. Guitar mags. Yes, I do think that’s a sign of recognition when you are on the covers. You may disagree.


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## Giest (Jul 10, 2022)

Clean singing has ruined more modern metal bands than drugs, alcohol, women, and member deaths combined.


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## Ralyks (Jul 10, 2022)

I like Black Sabbath's "Born Again"

I like Chris Poland more than Marty Friedman

Slayer is the worst of the big 4 and Reign in Blood is good, but Seasons and South of Heaven are leagues better. Even Hell Awaits is better.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> CC's replacement was a better musician, better guitarist, and better person all around, yet is less well-known.


Say it louder.

Richie's finally getting some recognition these days, but still not enough.

Same vein, but more lukewarm take; Corabi Crue > Vince Neil Crue. That self-titled album is fucking amazing and nothing good came out of Crue reuniting with Vince.


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## Decapitated (Jul 10, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Say it louder.
> 
> Richie's finally getting some recognition these days, but still not enough.
> 
> Same vein, but warm take; Corabi Crue > Vince Neil Crue. That self-titled album is fucking amazing and nothing good came out of Crue reuniting with Vince.


That Corabi album is so good. I think Richie got lost in the Shrapnel group and was pigeon holed as just another shredder.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 10, 2022)

The Sound of Perseverance is the best Death album by a fucking mile.

Clean singing is awesome and makes me like a band more. Because dynamics.


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## Hollowway (Jul 10, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Say it louder.
> 
> Richie's finally getting some recognition these days, but still not enough.


100%. He should be way bigger in the nerdy-guitar circles than he is.


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## STRHelvete (Jul 10, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> That Corabi album is so good. I think Richie got lost in the Shrapnel group and was pigeon holed as just another shredder.


Nuno is such a gorgeous human being. I'm not even attracted to him like that, but goddamn that's a beautiful man.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

Eddie Munson is more metal than most of the bands these days.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Say it louder.
> 
> Richie's finally getting some recognition these days, but still not enough.
> 
> Same vein, but more lukewarm take; Corabi Crue > Vince Neil Crue. That self-titled album is fucking amazing and nothing good came out of Crue reuniting with Vince.


Richie is great, but not a great replacement for CC in Poison.


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## mmr007 (Jul 10, 2022)

Overall Pantera is better than Prong, overall Dime is a better guitarist than Tommy and Phil is a better singer than Tommy (for what they both do) but for both bands being aggro-groove metal, Pantera doesn't have a single song in their catalog that can touch Prong's "Whose Fist..."

If there's a metal Mt Rushmore, Glenn Tipton belongs on it

If we're talking about gorgeous human beings Richie Faulkner is first then make the rest of your list in any order you choose

Ghost is metal. Don't let your lack of historical knowledge and perspective of the genre confuse you.

Chris Holmes is more interesting than probably most people realized

Ozzy's best guitarists are in order...Randy then Jake E Lee...then order doesn't really matter after that


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## SexHaver420 (Jul 10, 2022)

Pantera was better when they were a glam band (not that they were ever good).


South of Heaven is the best Slayer album.


Metallica and Megadeth both suck. Ride the Lightning is easily the best Metallica album and the only reason anyone cares about Megadeth is because how good their lead guitarists are. Metallica would have been the best thrash band of all time if back in the day they had any other trash drummer and lead guitarist that wasn't Kerry King.


Fun caveman riffs in stuff like Undergang or something are way better than any shreddy wanky nonsense even though that's fun sometimes.


Hatred for Mankind by Dragged into Sunlight is possibly the best death metal album of the past like 15 years or so because of how gnarly and hateful the vibe of it is.


Clean vocals in modern metal are dumb and every band that starts adding them to a bunch of songs/starts using them the majority of the time all get significantly worse. Mastodon, Opeth, and Gojira are all great examples of this. It's like they all just neuter themselves and quit making good aggressive kick ass music. Kataonia did it too because only their albums with harsh vocals are worth listening to.


Boris are the best sludge/doom/drone band no contest and are the best live band even if half of their music sucks.


Periphery is literally god awful and if you like them you just have awful taste in metal. The intro riff to Icarus lives is dank tho but just the intro riff.


Behemoth is boring and really overrated.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 10, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> Nuno is such a gorgeous human being. I'm not even attracted to him like that, but goddamn that's a beautiful man.


He won the genetic lottery twice. Talented and beautiful, sheesh.


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## BusinessMan (Jul 10, 2022)

Gojira's last two albums have been hot doodoo overall. 

Spiritbox is trash

Like it or not, you cant deny Nickelback has some pretty good material


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> If there's a metal Mt Rushmore, Glenn Tipton belongs on it


KK > Glenn


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## mmr007 (Jul 10, 2022)

This is the thread for saying outlandish shit but can we keep it grounded in reality?


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## bostjan (Jul 10, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> I didn’t say he wasn’t well known or that he wasn’t famous. I am talking about recognition from the guitar playing community. Sure, there were tons of players that never reached his level of fame, but he was mocked for the most part. I must have lost my issues of Guitar World with him on the cover. Not music mags. Guitar mags. Yes, I do think that’s a sign of recognition when you are on the covers. You may disagree.


Yeah, his photo included to drive home the point that CC is every bit as awful a guitar player as SRV. 








Tons of coverage in guitar mag's from the 80's and 90's. I don't know where you were back then.

Not even saying he's overrated, but to be underrated, you usually can't be commonly rated #1. I think CC had some talent, but it's not like he was overlooked and was secretly in the same league as EVH or Vai or Satriani or Steve Gilbert. He was more like a cut above the run-of-the-mill 80's hairband shredders, but being that he was in the biggest hairband at the height of hairmetal, he got his recognition.

But now take, for example, Jeff Beck, seen on the cover I posted. That guy rips, and ran in the sample circles as Clapton and Jimmy Page, but was a more technical and much more disciplined guitarist than either of them. I wouldn't really call Beck underrated, but if CC is underrated, then Beck must be for sure. Probably George Harrison, too.

It's cool if you think he's a great player, or even if he tops your list. But let's keep the "underrated" for players who aren't mainstream household names. You know who's underrated? Tons of guitarists I've come across randomly who were touring their asses off who could play circles around CC, but played music that never made them famous. And hell, probably half the people on this board.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jul 10, 2022)

All the people that are apparently trying to gatekeep Metallica because they were in Stranger Things are the same people that have hated them since The Black Album came out.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

BornToLooze said:


> All the people that are apparently trying to gatekeep Metallica because they were in Stranger Things are the same people that have hated them since The Black Album came out.


That or they don't want metal ruined by normies. Then again, Metallica has appealed to normies since The Black Album, so it is sorta weird to try and gatekeep them at this point.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 10, 2022)

BornToLooze said:


> All the people that are apparently trying to gatekeep Metallica because they were in Stranger Things are the same people that have hated them since The Black Album came out.


I was late to the Metallica bandwagon, but got really into them with AJfA, then subsequently MoP and RtL. The black/selftitled album was honestly a bit of a shock when it came out. Yeah, they had slower parts in songs (One, Fade to Black, etc.), but no ballads, then an album with a fullon ballad and whatever Unforgiven is. Me and my buddies assessed that the new album was more appealing to the masses, but thought it was great that they were making it big. The Load came out, and we sort of just thought it was a dud because they were trying to hard to please the wider audience and couldn't pull it off. I know there are gatekeepers out there, but a lot of folks saying stuff like, "hey, if you like this, you might love that other thing from the same band that their fans really love" can come off as gatekeeping when it's really just excitement over a potential shared interest. Especially when it was kind of weird to be a Metallica fan, you know?

The fact that a popular show got people into Metallica is cool. The fact that they used Master of Puppets to do it is fantastic. Maybe there will be a season two of Squid Game and they'll feature Havoc or some other kickass but not-well-known thrash band, but I won't hold my breath. LOL


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## Decapitated (Jul 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> View attachment 110480
> 
> 
> View attachment 110481
> ...


Tons of coverage? In Circus Magazine? Metal Edge maybe? That magazine you posted is from Japan.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, his photo included to drive home the point that CC is every bit as awful a guitar player as SRV.
> 
> View attachment 110480
> 
> ...


Speaking of underrated... Punky Meadows. Not a metal guitarist, but still.


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## Dayn (Jul 10, 2022)

Since we're mentioning Metallica now, here are a few.

St Anger actually had some good music in it. Half of the album was good, it's just that it was spread out over every song.

Load and Reload are good albums. But they're good hard rock albums, not the type of metal you'd expect from Metallica.

...And Justice For All sounds good as it is. It doesn't need to be revamped with overamped bass. The tone is tight and aggressive and works for the album.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 10, 2022)

Speaking of music being ruined by normies, as someone who listens primarily to heavy music, the heavy metal community is one of the most bullshit communities that I have ever had the shame of being a part of, even superseding the Souls community and the Doom community.

A genre of music, built for the purpose of rebelling against popularity, taking in outcasts, rejecting norms, while also saying "WE ARE TIRED OF RULEZ, THERE ARE NO RULEZ..."

Unless you rap in our music, don't solo, use this gear, use that gear, don't share our opinions, and to quote Metallica, "you can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say."

"We are an elite group of musicians born of our hatred of norms, and we're tough street bred kids with one dream, and we will do absolutely ANYTHING, drugs, sex, rock and roll, and we will become the most metal of all metal and our strength comes from our pain! But the fact that the Grammy's hardly acknowledges us, that hurts so bad!!!"

Load of fucking shit.

Even funnier is when even black metal artists don't share the same prejudices towards certain music that the fans do. Hell, some of them liked Kiss and Kraftwerk. 

"OH NO, MY FAVORITE BM WHO MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN CERTAIN ACTIVITIES IS A HUMAN AND A FATHER AND NOT AS HARD AS I THOUGHT THEY WERE! Some of my favorite stars had the gall to say they like certain pop stars! Pop stars are wearing the shirt of my favorite band! That's bad, they'll make my favorite band not underground anymore and they might start earning more money from word of mouth!!! WAGHHHHHHHH!!!"


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## BornToLooze (Jul 10, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> That or they don't want metal ruined by normies. Then again, Metallica has appealed to normies since The Black Album, so it is sorta weird to try and gatekeep them at this point.



Ya, but I bought a MoP shirt at Walmart before.

Personally, I'm like dude, check out the patches on his vest. Dio, Wasp, Mercyful Fate...dude, if Puppets is gonna get you into metal you should check them out too.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 10, 2022)

Dayn said:


> Load and Reload are good albums. But they're good hard rock albums, not the type of metal you'd expect from Metallica.



I still think if any other band would have put those albums out, they would have been one of the biggest rock albums of the 90s.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

Dayn said:


> Since we're mentioning Metallica now, here are a few.
> 
> St Anger actually had some good music in it. Half of the album was good, it's just that it was spread out over every song.
> 
> ...


St Anger is a band going through a midlife crisis. Between trying to be one of the "kids" like the Steve Buscemi meme and tune down low, mixed with awful bs like "Fran-tick-tick-tick-tick-TAWWWKKK!" sound like a rooster with tourette's, the album was dreadful. "My lifestyle determines my death style!" What a godawful record.

Load and Reload are great, but Lars needs to be kept from doing the fucking arrangements. He sucks at it and needs to be given writing credits, but not allowed to do anything considered "writing." None of those songs needed to be longer than 5 or so minutes, aside from maybe one ro two. Tighten up the arrangements, make Lars come up with something different drum-wise for a few Reload tracks (he defaults to a drum pattern on a few too many tracks), and maybe can 2-3 per album, and they would've been killer.

It wouldn't be "overamped"; it would be unmuted. The bass tracks were flat out muted. If you buy the bullshit company line about Jason sticking too close to what James is playing, then you're gullible.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> Even funnier is when even black metal artists don't share the same prejudices towards certain music that the fans do. Hell, some of them liked Kiss and Kraftwerk.


Liked? Be real. Some of them completely worshipped and fashioned themselves after Gene Simmons, resulting in bands with 3-5 Gene Simmons types. All they did was take his Alive! era get up and use real spikes.



TheBlackBard said:


> "OH NO, MY FAVORITE BM WHO MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN CERTAIN ACTIVITIES IS A HUMAN AND A FATHER AND NOT AS HARD AS I THOUGHT THEY WERE! Some of my favorite stars had the gall to say they like certain pop stars! Pop stars are wearing the shirt of my favorite band! That's bad, they'll make my favorite band not underground anymore and they might start earning more money from word of mouth!!! WAGHHHHHHHH!!!"


The problem is that "normies" who don't even really care about the music try to get in and wreck shit that metal fans do like. Then again, you have asshole elitest types who judge you negatively for liking one "poser" band, despite having 99 other bands that you have in common with them.

To be honest, some sects of metal fandom are barely all that far off from the hordes of Juggalos that are going to the Gathering this year or any other year.


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## mmr007 (Jul 10, 2022)

The most underrated guitarist I can think of and the standard bearer for defining the term


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 10, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> View attachment 110484
> 
> 
> The most underrated guitarist I can think of and the standard bearer for defining the term


Jabs? He's great.


----------



## Thesius (Jul 10, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> That or they don't want metal ruined by normies. Then again, Metallica has appealed to normies since The Black Album, so it is sorta weird to try and gatekeep them at this point.


Metal is for normies


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## GenghisCoyne (Jul 10, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Metal is for normies


spiciest MF in here


----------



## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 10, 2022)

SexHaver420 said:


> Pantera was better when they were a glam band (not that they were ever good).
> 
> 
> South of Heaven is the best Slayer album.
> ...


Hatred for Mankind is probably the best or at least most metal album ever written.


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## mastapimp (Jul 10, 2022)

Swansong by Carcass, for what it is (death 'n roll), is incredible.

Devin Townsend's prolific amount of material is to the detriment of his legacy.

Instrumental Periphery is amazing, w/ vocals, not so much.


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## gunch (Jul 10, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Swansong by Carcass, for what it is (death 'n roll), is incredible.
> 
> Devin Townsend's prolific amount of material is to the detriment of his legacy.
> 
> Instrumental Periphery is amazing, w/ vocals, not so much.


Literally the only music I listen to by him is City


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 10, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Devin Townsend's prolific amount of material is to the detriment of his legacy.


As someone who was a giant Devin Townsend fan up until a few years ago, I couldn't agree with this more. The man needs a band of other solid musicians to reign him in; Transcendence might've been the best post-Strapping Young Lad album he put out precisely because of this.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 10, 2022)

Dayn said:


> Since we're mentioning Metallica now, here are a few.
> 
> St Anger actually had some good music in it. Half of the album was good, it's just that it was spread out over every song.
> 
> ...And Justice For All sounds good as it is. It doesn't need to be revamped with overamped bass. The tone is tight and aggressive and works for the album.


St Anger is a 40-minute album that had 35 minutes of filler taped onto it for no reason. 
Also as for the bass thing; if the album sounded more like The Wait or Crash Course from the Garage Days EP... I would be all for it. 





mmr007 said:


> View attachment 110484
> 
> 
> The most underrated guitarist I can think of and the standard bearer for defining the term


Everyone talks about Uli and Michael, but Jabs was a monster in his own right.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 11, 2022)

Necrophagist did the smart thing and went out on top.

Metallica should have stopped after And Justice For All.

Mithras and Origin were doing cool ass space death metal long before the subgenre was inundated with that topic.

There are zero bad Bolt Thrower albums


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 11, 2022)

buckethead has *not* released enough albums...


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 11, 2022)

Some gatekeeping can be good. There's a lot of confusion about what metal is and we should try to clear things up. Metal has been around for a long time and at this point the history and sound of it is pretty well established. It's obviously totally fine to play any kind of music but if it's not influenced primarily by metal/sounds primarily like metal then it isn't metal and it shouldn't be called metal. However that doesn't mean that it's bad music. Saying something "is not metal" shouldn't be taken as an insult.


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## Emperoff (Jul 11, 2022)

Metal fans: "(-band name-) are old. They should have retired at their prime."

Meanwhile (band-name): Playing sold out arena shows at their 70's.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Metal fans: "(-band name-) are old. They should have retired at their prime."
> 
> Meanwhile (band-name): Playing sold out arena shows at their 70's.


Rock/metalheads: "Rock/metal isn't dead! It'll never die!"

Meanwhile (rock/metal): 70 year olds still selling out arenas, stadiums, sheds, etc. despite sounding like shit, relying on teleprompters, forgetting lyrics, relying on overplayed greatest hits tours to amass more cash, and/or barely moving on stage despite being very energetic in their prime.

Both being considered "dad rock/dad metal" are why the genres are dying.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 11, 2022)

Society has progressed beyond the need for Slayer.
"Throwback" anything is going to be pure garbage.
How does NYDM find the only bands with no following that have been around for 35 years and still put them on shows?


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## fuji86 (Jul 11, 2022)

Polyphia is overrated, Slayer should have stopped at Reign in Blood, Dream Theater should have fired Labrie the day they hire him and also their songs are too long. 
Not metal take but SRV is also overrated ( just a dollar store Hendrix clone)


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## Opion (Jul 11, 2022)

Exivious shouldn't have broken up, Our Oceans is trash

Brann Dailor needs to chill on vocals with Mastodon. Troy and Brent should be the main vocalists

Type O Negative is only popular because of Peter Steele's dong


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 11, 2022)

Muse is basically heavier Radiohead

The Contortionist never got better than Exoplanet

Tool is just just stoner/doom metal for pretentious hipsters

Drone music isn't music

Code Orange is just a far worse version of Dillinger Escape Plan

DEP is just Psyopus or BTBAM for people who hate prog/avant garde metal

Cattle Decapitation would be infinitely better if they were instrumental. The goblin shrieks are fucking awful, and not in a fun way.

Augury never gets enough credit, same with Gorod. They consistently put out excellent tech death.


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## Emperoff (Jul 11, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Rock/metalheads: "Rock/metal isn't dead! It'll never die!"
> 
> Meanwhile (rock/metal): 70 year olds still selling out arenas, stadiums, sheds, etc. despite sounding like shit, relying on teleprompters, forgetting lyrics, relying on overplayed greatest hits tours to amass more cash, and/or barely moving on stage despite being very energetic in their prime.
> 
> Both being considered "dad rock/dad metal" are why the genres are dying.



U still mad at Judas Priest from the other thread?


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## Screwhead (Jul 11, 2022)

Djent guitars have the same ADHD "I can't decide what I want to play" vibe as really shitty brostep dubstep like Skrillex, Excision, Kill The Noise, etc.


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## mastapimp (Jul 11, 2022)

Opion said:


> Exivious shouldn't have broken up, Our Oceans is trash
> 
> Brann Dailor needs to chill on vocals with Mastodon. Troy and Brent should be the main vocalists
> 
> Type O Negative is only popular because of Peter Steele's dong


Totally disagree with the Type O comment, but am on board with the Mastodon assessment. In fact, I think some of their strongest vocals come from every album cut where Scott Kelly is on the mic.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 11, 2022)

I think people should realize that just because it's not exactly at the forefront of music, that rock/metal isn't dead, especially in the age of the Internet. The closest thing that got close to killing it is Covid, not the fans.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 11, 2022)

Opion said:


> Brann Dailor needs to chill on vocals with Mastodon. Troy and Brent should be the main vocalists


I don't necessarily disagree but it seems like Brent has been checked out of Mastodon for a while so it's up to Brann and Troy to fill in on vocals. Scott Kelly's guest spots are always killer.


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## Metropolis (Jul 11, 2022)

These kind of threads exist only to show how bad opinions and taste people have.


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## MFB (Jul 11, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> I don't necessarily disagree but it seems like Brent has been checked out of Mastodon for a while so it's up to Brann and Troy to fill in on vocals. Scott Kelly's guest spots are always killer.



Pretty sure since OMRTS he's just been showing up to hit the solo and then peaces out to cash the check, which is a bummer because I do enjoy the sound he brings to the early Mastodon albums. I'd be cool if he came up with riffs then ran them through the Kelliher Machine to make them a bit more Mastodon, as I'm sure they're just country chicken-pickin at this point, and then turn that into new stuff; but alas, a man can dream, and I don't think we'll see a drastic change soon as they've been on an upward trajectory since Brann started singing.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> U still mad at Judas Priest from the other thread?


Yes, only Judas Priest uses Teleprompters. Not Motley Crue or others.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> I think people should realize that just because it's not exactly at the forefront of music, that rock/metal isn't dead, especially in the age of the Internet. The closest thing that got close to killing it is Covid, not the fans.


Okay, who're the next generation of bands that are actually getting anywhere that are younger than 10 years old as a band? These bands also need to be making a living doing this, not basically using it as a side job/hobby. Most if not all of the bands making money doing this for a living are well into the 20+ year old category.


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## MFB (Jul 11, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yes, only Judas Priest uses Teleprompters. Not Motley Crue or others.



At this point, a teleprompter is the least of Crue's problems with their vocalist


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## Dwellingers (Jul 11, 2022)

MFB said:


> At this point, a teleprompter is the least of Crue's problems with their vocalist


I've hear greenpeace is trying to get him to the ocean.


----------



## Leviathus (Jul 11, 2022)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> buckethead has *not* released enough albums...


Wouldn't it be funny if Buckethead was Jari?


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## Emperoff (Jul 11, 2022)

Djent is awesome and Periphery is the best metal band ever


----------



## bostjan (Jul 11, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Rock/metalheads: "Rock/metal isn't dead! It'll never die!"
> 
> Meanwhile (rock/metal): 70 year olds still selling out arenas, stadiums, sheds, etc. despite sounding like shit, relying on teleprompters, forgetting lyrics, relying on overplayed greatest hits tours to amass more cash, and/or barely moving on stage despite being very energetic in their prime.
> 
> Both being considered "dad rock/dad metal" are why the genres are dying.



Naw, the cause/effect relationship there is all twisted around. Those bands are still popular in their 60's and 70's and 80's because there has not been enough new music since that balances accessibility to wide audiences and contemporary relevance with fresh sounds and quality.

Rock broke out in the late 40's as this weird blend of different music genres in the USA, then it took off like crazy in the late 1950's, and is going on 65 years of relevance. That's a hell of a lot longer than Big Band or Vaudeville lasted. But, I think it's just because of that longevity, that it's sort of split into either being a) too derivative of previous music, or b) too inaccessible for whatever reason.

Since mainstream audiences already allowed the 1980's to push their boundaries with b, that leaves the same tired old bands from prior to 1990 plus a few rare 90's bands that managed to get through the fringes and virtually no new bands from the 2000's that can sell out arenas with a rock or metal sound (not counting 90's bands who had hits in the 2000s).



KnightBrolaire said:


> Muse is basically heavier Radiohead
> 
> The Contortionist never got better than Exoplanet
> 
> ...


Agree. Probably. Agree. Agree.

IDK too much about Code Orange. I've heard maybe 4-5 songs, but, to me, they sound pretty distinct from DEP. 

DEP was around years before BtBaM and way before Psyopus, so IDK how you can say that.

I like Cattle Decapitation, but can only take them in small doses.

Agreed.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Naw, the cause/effect relationship there is all twisted around. Those bands are still popular in their 60's and 70's and 80's because there has not been enough new music since that balances accessibility to wide audiences and contemporary relevance with fresh sounds and quality.
> 
> Rock broke out in the late 40's as this weird blend of different music genres in the USA, then it took off like crazy in the late 1950's, and is going on 65 years of relevance. That's a hell of a lot longer than Big Band or Vaudeville lasted. But, I think it's just because of that longevity, that it's sort of split into either being a) too derivative of previous music, or b) too inaccessible for whatever reason.
> 
> Since mainstream audiences already allowed the 1980's to push their boundaries with b, that leaves the same tired old bands from prior to 1990 plus a few rare 90's bands that managed to get through the fringes and virtually no new bands from the 2000's that can sell out arenas with a rock or metal sound (not counting 90's bands who had hits in the 2000s).


Old bands prostituting their "legacy" with reunion tours and charging exorbitant prices lead to rock and metal being known as shit dad listens to. Rock and metal used to be for teens and 20 somethings, as it was accesible for them and they were able to afford tickets. Now it is for middle age dads to take their kids to (in lots of cases only because dad wants to). I don't know how many teens and 20 somethings are able to afford 50+ dollar tickets, especially when what you get is a greatest hits setlist to see some 50-60 year olds who should have fucked off awhile ago rather than continue taking up space on flyers.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 11, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Old bands prostituting their "legacy" with reunion tours and charging exorbitant prices lead to rock and metal being known as shit dad listens to. Rock and metal used to be for teens and 20 somethings, as it was accesible for them and they were able to afford tickets. Now it is for middle age dads to take their kids to (in lots of cases only because dad wants to). I don't know how many teens and 20 somethings are able to afford 50+ dollar tickets, especially when what you get is a greatest hits setlist to see some 50-60 year olds who should have fucked off awhile ago rather than continue taking up space on flyers.


Tons of rock and metal bands NOT selling out arenas that people under the age of 30 go see. Most of the 20-something band people I talk to don't even want to go to an arena for a show. They'd rather go to a 300 cap club or a 1-3k capacity venue and they don't care about the bands playing the arenas. Not because rock and metal is "stuff dads listen to" but because the stuff that sells out arenas is the stuff dads listen to. It's not the type of music, its the artists.


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## MFB (Jul 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> [...] then it took off like crazy in the late 1950's, and is going on 65 years of relevance.



Bro, we all know the date, it was 1955 at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance when McFly played "Johnny B. Goode", and that no good hack Chuck Berry then went on to rip him off after his cousin - Marvin - played it over the phone for him; just goes to show that white people can't have _shit_.


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## mmr007 (Jul 11, 2022)

Yeah the logic is backwards on this one. Rock isnt dead because its by over run with old legacy acts charging too much for lipsync’d reunion tours. Its dead on all listening formats because most people dont find it fun to listen to. We had an over correction in the music scene we still havent recovered from and now guitarists (tje driving force of rock and metal) are more interested in flexing on youtube channels than making music that appeals to the masses

People want fun music and other genres are giving them what they want….along with 70 year old rock and metal acts


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 11, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Djent is awesome and Periphery is the best metal band ever



If you are ever approached by a media/podcaster/streamer for comment on literally anything, even the giant explosion that rocked your town, this is all you should ever say.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Yeah the logic is backwards on this one. Rock isnt dead because its by over run with old legacy acts charging too much for lipsync’d reunion tours. Its dead on all listening formats because most people dont find it fun to listen to. We had an over correction in the music scene we still havent recovered from and now guitarists (tje driving force of rock and metal) are more interested in flexing on youtube channels than making music that appeals to the masses
> 
> People want fun music and other genres are giving them what they want….along with 70 year old rock and metal acts



>music that appeals to the masses
>metal

pick one


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## mmr007 (Jul 11, 2022)

??????


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## nickgray (Jul 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> than making music that appeals to the masses



Metal that appeals to the masses? What, like Necrophagist with a 4 to the floor beat or something? Even really popular metal is niche. Iron Maiden is probably the biggest band today that stayed true to the genre, but its popularity is nowhere near mass appeal.

The fundamental problem is that being a music fan is a niche thing. Metal, by and large, is not the kind of music that is easily enjoyed by unprepared listeners. Even old school heavy metal. Furthermore, plenty of metal fans can be completely dismissive of more complex metal themselves (ironically, imo it's exactly the same as blues dads complaining about not enough feel, it comes from the same exact place).



mmr007 said:


> People want fun music



People en masse will never, ever, ever listen to niche shit that a lot of us here do, it's just not possible. Imagine getting into a taxi and the driver blasts some 90s In Flames and bitches about how good In Flames were, and how melodeath stagnated and never got out of the rut. Or you go into a supermarket, and there's Necrophagist blasting in the background, and during the checkout, the 60-something cashier lady grumbles about how Muhammed shouldn't have gotten that BMW job.


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## mmr007 (Jul 11, 2022)

No but we’re not talking extreme metal. The question is whether Rock is dead. Rock used to appeal to the masses. Look at the US festival. During the 70s 80s and 90s rock and metal reigned supreme until rap completed its take over. Bavk in the 80s I couldnt go 5 minutes with def leppard or twisted sister playing. Now they are popular as old men because everyone new is yoo scared to not play serious angsty rock or just relay on the fact you dont need to play an instrument at all to be a “rock star”


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## gunch (Jul 11, 2022)

Rock is Boomer and Gen X culture and Millennials and Zoomers consciously resist everything Boomers and Gen X are and stand for


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## 7stringDemon (Jul 11, 2022)

Lorna Shore guy is getting all the credit for what Infant Annihilator has done since 2016.

Also, Rock's not dead, we just done like it right now. Plenty of new rock bands out there with big names and packed houses.


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## Thesius (Jul 11, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Djent is awesome and Periphery is the best metal band ever


Spittin' fax


----------



## BornToLooze (Jul 11, 2022)

nickgray said:


> People en masse will never, ever, ever listen to niche shit that a lot of us here do, it's just not possible. Imagine getting into a taxi and the driver blasts some 90s In Flames and bitches about how good In Flames were, and how melodeath stagnated and never got out of the rut. Or you go into a supermarket, and there's Necrophagist blasting in the background, and during the checkout, the 60-something cashier lady grumbles about how Muhammed shouldn't have gotten that BMW job.



In the local grocery store we used to have (that would occasionally play entry level metal), I was checking out and the girl ringing me up said something about my rad whatever band shirt I was wearing and we talked about what kind of metal we liked and she asked if I liked Meshuggah, so I told her I though Bleed was cool, I just never could get into them, so she told me to check out New Millenium Cyanide Christ, and on my way out the door she yelled after me to check out Gojira too.

I don't know if I walked into some Twilight Zone/Brütal Legend parallel dimension, but yes I can imagine that. And it's glorious and brütal.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 11, 2022)

GWAR makes good music.


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## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 11, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Muse is basically heavier Radiohead
> 
> The Contortionist never got better than Exoplanet
> 
> ...


I actually like Cattle Decap but man you're gonna complain about the vocals?? Have you heard the drummer live????.........?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Yeah the logic is backwards on this one. Rock isnt dead because its by over run with old legacy acts charging too much for lipsync’d reunion tours. Its dead on all listening formats because most people dont find it fun to listen to. We had an over correction in the music scene we still havent recovered from and now guitarists (tje driving force of rock and metal) are more interested in flexing on youtube channels than making music that appeals to the masses
> 
> People want fun music and other genres are giving them what they want….along with 70 year old rock and metal acts


They are "more interested" in that because it is the only way they can make a living. You know, because it is dead.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 11, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> They are "more interested" in that because it is the only way they can make a living. You know, because it is dead.


There are tons of reasons why live rock and roll is in its final death throes. Youtube is a huge part of it, but there are other reasons, too:
1. It's no longer fresh.
2. Tinder. Bands used to get their start playing at bars. Bars are drying up. Young people rarely go to bars anymore because they don't have any incentive to do so. Between hookup apps and cops cracking down on drunks, there are a lot fewer places for shitty rock bands to play.
3. Streaming. Making your own CDs or, before that, tapes, used to be a cumbersome process of setting up dad's garage or mom's basement as a shitty makeshift recording studio. You'd make your recording over a weekend or two, burn or dub physical media, then sell it for $10 to a handful of dedicated fans. Now, you can download an entire band, grab a microphone, and record all you want by yourself and stream it for .004 cents. For one, you don't NEED your buddies to lug their drums and amps over and for two, even if you wanted to approach it that way, it wouldn't be worth the hassle.
4. Culture. We've shifted culture away from things that take patience to learn. Video games used to be painfully difficult, but now they all start with a tutorial and you can always start from your last save if you mess up. In the USA, it's nearly impossible to get a car that's not automatic. Homecooked meals come in kits now. Everything is made easier, which is great, but it means that life goes at a faster pace, so there isn't time to go deep with stuff anymore. Even learning to play an instrument these days is more of a solo thing. You take lessons online, which increases the barrier of just jamming with other people, which leads to fewer bands.


----------



## works0fheart (Jul 12, 2022)

Opion said:


> Exivious shouldn't have broken up, Our Oceans is trash



Very true. Not sure if that's a hot take at all.

Lol @ the ghost arguments. Are Ghost the new Nickelback where they're just fun to shit on? Not sure how they even get mentioned in a "metal" thread anyways, especially this many times, but oh well.

I guess I'll post a hot take or something. 

Most modern thrash bands are boring as shit and just sound like parodies of the genre. It's like there's a list of bullet points they have to make with sound and writing and straying far from that makes you a poser or something.


----------



## Demiurge (Jul 12, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Lol @ the ghost arguments. Are Ghost the new Nickelback where they're just fun to shit on? Not sure how they even get mentioned in a "metal" thread anyways, especially this many times, but oh well.


Their debut did come out over ten years ago and their 'metal-worthiness' continues to be litigated. Metal is so stagnant that even the shit-talking is stale.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 12, 2022)

7stringDemon said:


> Lorna Shore guy is getting all the credit for what Infant Annihilator has done since 2016.


And JFAC did that first in... 2005 was it?


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 12, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Lol @ the ghost arguments. Are Ghost the new Nickelback where they're just fun to shit on? Not sure how they even get mentioned in a "metal" thread anyways, especially this many times, but oh well.


Ghost is shit talked because their music blows ass. And they get mentioned because all music websites seem to think they're metal for god knows what reason.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 12, 2022)

I like Ghost. They're the best thing to happen to metal since Djent and Teleprompters.


----------



## ExMachina (Jul 12, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I like Ghost. They're the best thing to happen to metal since Djent and Teleprompters.


Should we make a troll thread instead?


----------



## tian (Jul 12, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> And JFAC did that first in... 2005 was it?


To contribute to the thread, Sun Eater is one of the best death metal albums of the past decade that doesn't get the credit it deserves because JFAC is never going to escape the shadow of that damn Spongebob meme video lol (rip MySpace).


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

ExMachina said:


> Should we make a troll thread instead?


Kurt Cobain was a criminally underrated guitarist. 

Black Sabbath is just Metallica for stoners.

Five Finger Death Punch - greatest band ever? ...?


----------



## MFB (Jul 12, 2022)

Metal needs more covers of pop songs in different genres; I mean, how else will I know what "classic" song referenced in a TV show/movie would sound like as *insert choice here*?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Five Finger Death Punch - greatest band ever? ...?


I prefer Five Finger Meth Lunch.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I prefer Five Finger Meth Lunch.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


>


Five Finger Meth Lunch is what you get when you listen to too much nu metal, ICP, and Nickelback.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

Limp Finger Clownback?

Or what about the latest survival horror game "Five Nights at Five Finger Death Punch Concerts?"


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Limp Finger Clownback?
> 
> Or what about the latest survival horror game "Five Nights at Five Finger Death Punch Concerts?"


LMAO. If you walk out of that without an Affliction shirt, Ed Harley (or whatever his name is) artwork, or a Monster sticker, you beat the odds.


----------



## michael_bolton (Jul 12, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> More old school but ACDC used to be considered metal so while I hate and detest Brian Johnson’s voice more than anything….musically the Fly on the Wall album is far superior to Back in Black and its not close



My fav ACDC album is Flick Of The Switch. Fly On The Wall has some killer tunes but I don't like production/mix on it. 
Their "heavy blues" stuff is cool and by and large is what made them popular for me though it's tunes like Send for the Man, Nervous Shakedown, Bedlam in Belguim etc is where it's at


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## mmr007 (Jul 12, 2022)

michael_bolton said:


> My fav ACDC album is Flick Of The Switch. Fly On The Wall has some killer tunes but I don't like production/mix on it.
> Their "heavy blues" stuff is cool and by and large is what made them popular for me though it's tunes like Send for the Man, Nervous Shakedown, Bedlam in Belguim etc is where it's at


I would agree that the production on fly on the wall is horrible. Also flick of the switch is also better than back in black. No hits but i could listen to it start to finish without skipping songs


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 12, 2022)

tian said:


> To contribute to the thread, Sun Eater is one of the best death metal albums of the past decade that doesn't get the credit it deserves because JFAC is never going to escape the shadow of that damn Spongebob meme video lol (rip MySpace).


Sun eater is such a damn good album. I was just listening to it the other day. The writing, production, instrumentation, vocals are all just stellar.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I would agree that the production on fly on the wall is horrible. Also flick of the switch is also better than back in black. No hits but i could listen to it start to finish without skipping songs


IDK. I couldn't really listen to either of those albums. To me, AC/DC built their career up to _Back in Black_, and then, after that, everything they released sounded kind of the same as whatever they had previously released. They had their little blip at the turn of the 80s/90s decade with "Who Made Who," "Thunderstruck," and "Moneytalks," but, if we are going to be honest, those songs also really didn't introduce us to anything new from the band. At least _Ballbreaker_ had a little more play in the tempo of songs and took the lyrics into new cringey directions instead of the same old cringey topics.  It still sounded 90% the same as post-_Back in Black_ AC/DC, though.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 12, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Devin Townsend's prolific amount of material is to the detriment of his legacy.



I was a huuuuge Devin fan back from like 2006-2011, but basically everything after Addicted wasn't for me. Weirdly enough that's basically half his catalogue now. I'm happy Devin is enjoying much bigger success though, and happy that his success has let him play huge live shows with set lists I never would have thought could happen back in 2006.


----------



## MFB (Jul 12, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> I was a huuuuge Devin fan back from like 2006-2011, but basically everything after Addicted wasn't for me. Weirdly enough that's basically half his catalogue now. I'm happy Devin is enjoying much bigger success though, and happy that his success has let him play huge live shows with set lists I never would have thought could happen back in 2006.



Yeah, I remember enjoying his material up to Addicted! but then after that it sort of petered off and seemed like he was becoming a more mainstream Buckethead. He's got songs here and there I might listen to, but overall? Eh.


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> IDK. I couldn't really listen to either of those albums. To me, AC/DC built their career up to _Back in Black_, and then, after that, everything they released sounded kind of the same as whatever they had previously released. They had their little blip at the turn of the 80s/90s decade with "Who Made Who," "Thunderstruck," and "Moneytalks," but, if we are going to be honest, those songs also really didn't introduce us to anything new from the band. At least _Ballbreaker_ had a little more play in the tempo of songs and took the lyrics into new cringey directions instead of the same old cringey topics.  It still sounded 90% the same as post-_Back in Black_ AC/DC, though.


If someone has a difficult time listening to post Bon Scott ACDC I can't argue because I'm racing up that hill faster than anyone. I never bought an ACDC album past Fly and find their music unlistenable at that point...and I detest Thunderstruck. However, Powerage and Highway to Hell I believe are two of the greatest hard rock albums in history and I attribute most of that to Bon making the most out of the repetitive E,A and G chords he was given to work with. My hot take was only that for all the praise Back in Black gets from ACDC fans, musically it is very dull compared to FOTW or as was mentioned, FOTS


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> If someone has a difficult time listening to post Bon Scott ACDC I can't argue because I'm racing up that hill faster than anyone. I never bought an ACDC album past Fly and find their music unlistenable at that point...and I detest Thunderstruck. However, Powerage and Highway to Hell I believe are two of the greatest hard rock albums in history and I attribute most of that to Bon making the most out of the repetitive E,A and G chords he was given to work with. My hot take was only that for all the praise Back in Black gets from ACDC fans, musically it is very dull compared to FOTW or as was mentioned, FOTS


 I guess, maybe a little...

But the first two songs on FotW are super stereotypical ACDC songs, just with shittier production quality and weird reverb.

Fly on the Wall chords - A ... A ... ( A G D G ) x*∞* Drums go thumpa thumpa thumpa, bass goes dum dum dum just like every other ACDC song
Shake Your Foundation - Typical Angus lick with higher power chord voicings over a pedal tone, then chorus G and D chords some drums and bass as usual
First Blood at least starts off different, but then just shifts into a typical ACDC bass and drum vamp with minimal open Malcolm chords for the verse. Some weird chords for a second in the prechorus, but the chorus is still your typical ACDC big open chord chorus.

I mean, that's obviously not the entire album, but if you didn't skip the first two songs that are 100% typical ACDC filler, you get rewarded with something slightly different, and the rest of the album continues with mostly just standard ACDC filler songs just with weird reverb on the vocals and every once in a while a guitar riff that sounds like it might not be ACDC.

If you love it, more power to you, but whatever logic you try to use to justify loving it more than Razor's Edge or whatever other Johnson-era ACDC is probably going to be inconsistent upon any level of scrutiny. All ACDC albums since 1980 have sounded like the same damned thing, which is why staunch fans love them and fairweather fans listen to _Back in Black_ and pretend that the band retired after that.  It's not like FotW and FotS were their _Load _and _Reload_ albums by any stretch of the imagination. Most people treat them as thought they are ACDC's most forgettable albums because they kind of are.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 12, 2022)

Extreme Music Post-2000 > >>> > Extreme Music Pre-2000
Deathcore is more interesting and heavier than death metal.
Tech death is better with synths.


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## michael_bolton (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> It's not like FotW and FotS were their _Load _and _Reload_ albums by any stretch of the imagination. Most people treat them as thought they are ACDC's most forgettable albums because they kind of are.



The way I see it - FOTS is defo a standout being the least "bluesy" and the most "hard rock riff" -oriented album of theirs. There's literally one tune on there - Badlands - that has a caveman blues riff as it's basis - but even then it's done up stylistically totally different and "heavier" compared to e.g. Whole Lotta Rosie with a very similar riff


----------



## tian (Jul 12, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> I was a huuuuge Devin fan back from like 2006-2011, but basically everything after Addicted wasn't for me. Weirdly enough that's basically half his catalogue now. I'm happy Devin is enjoying much bigger success though, and happy that his success has let him play huge live shows with set lists I never would have thought could happen back in 2006.


Exactly where I'm at. I'm glad that he's happier, more successful and healthier than he's ever been but the duality of those early Devin Townsend Project and Strapping Young Lad albums was really incredible.

Ki has grown on me over time but I don't think I've really listened to anything past that which at this point is a decade's worth of material.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 12, 2022)

Hot takes, you say? _Cowabunga it is:

- _The people who complain about a guitar lacking stainless frets greatly overestimate their own functional needs of fretwire and should probably just play more guitar. It's a nice feature and I'll take it 10 times out of 10 but the demographic that pretends to have a Master's in Material Engineering are obnoxiously vocal.

- Simply not liking them is one thing, but If you think Floyds are hard to work on or a pain to adjust/restring you probably can't change your own oil - not won't, _can't._

- Hipshot hardtails don't hold a candle to Ibanez hardtails and the basic Hipshot design is less comfortable than a Tune-O-Matic.

- Jackson CS's consistency is a shadow of its former self and to actually pay what they're asking for only to get a guitar with a lackluster top and missing a fret is utterly hilarious.

- I'm sure Kiesel makes some great guitars but while that name is on the instrument you couldn't pay me to play one. There's a million other great instruments in the same price bracket that don't advertise that absolute muppet's name.

- Not every pickup Bare Knuckle makes is an 'upgrade'. They have some great winds and some pretty pedestrian ones, too, and you'll be paying too much for both of them.

- A quality quartersawn 1-piece neck is just as reliable and stable as an equivalent laminate neck, and doesn't run the risk of potentially having seam sprout.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> Hot takes, you say? _Cowabunga it is:
> 
> - _The people who complain about a guitar lacking stainless frets greatly overestimate their own functional needs of fretwire and should probably just play more guitar. It's a nice feature and I'll take it 10 times out of 10 but the demographic that pretends to have a Master's in Material Engineering are obnoxiously vocal.
> 
> ...



I find a lot of "must have" features are gobbled up by people LARPing as touring musicians, and I mean that in the least asshole-ish way possible (and as someone who is absolutely not a touring/pro musician) but I don't know how else to say it lol. People who play 20 minutes a day saying they "need" SS frets, or "need" truss rod adjustment at the neck heel, or "need" Bareknuckles etc. It's a lot of people who have found a hobby they like, have money, and regurgitate the lines they hear touring musicians say in promotional material. I'm not trying to gatekeep, and if you simply _want_ SS frets or any of that stuff that's totally fine and dandy, but it's hilarious seeing fellow bedroom guitarists talk about how their guitar that's never left the room it was brought home to absolutely requires SS frets, a 9 piece laminate neck, heel truss rod adjustment, BKPs, 20" radius ebony board, hipshot bridge and tuners, etc. or they just can't play it.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Fly on the Wall chords - A ... A ... (* A G D G )* x*∞* Drums go thumpa thumpa thumpa, bass goes dum dum dum just like every other *ACDC* song


They were thiiiiiiiiis close...


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 12, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> I find a lot of "must have" features are gobbled up by people LARPing as touring musicians, and I mean that in the least asshole-ish way possible (and as someone who is absolutely not a touring/pro musician) but I don't know how else to say it lol. People who play 20 minutes a day saying they "need" SS frets, or "need" truss rod adjustment at the neck heel, or "need" Bareknuckles etc. It's a lot of people who have found a hobby they like, have money, and regurgitate the lines they hear touring musicians say in promotional material. I'm not trying to gatekeep, and if you simply _want_ SS frets or any of that stuff that's totally fine and dandy, but it's hilarious seeing fellow bedroom guitarists talk about how their guitar that's never left the room it was brought home to absolutely requires SS frets, a 9 piece laminate neck, heel truss rod adjustment, BKPs, 20" radius ebony board, hipshot bridge and tuners, etc. or they just can't play it.


These are the same dudes that record their demos with whatever the current drum sampler and NDSP plugin du jour is and run everything through EZ mix and then advertise "Mixing and Mastering" services in local FB music groups.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

Oh shit, we're doing guitar hot takes?

- The importance of downpicking is vastly overblown. Play MoP with alternate picking, move on with your life.

- You do not need to pick the strings like they owe you money. You can get away much lower tension than you think, you just have to adjust your picking technique.

- Pick profiles make more difference than a pickup swap.

- Nothing will help the shit tone if your playing is shit and your guitar is out of tune. It's not the tone, it never was.

- Likewise, getting a $4k super specced guitar won't really do anything. It's a cool guitar, but it won't improve your playing. It's not the guitar, it never was.

- There are no silver bullets. No best guitar, no most versatile guitar, no "that one thing that helped you the most". I really wish beginners would understand this.


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## mmr007 (Jul 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Oh shit, we're doing guitar hot takes?
> 
> - The importance of downpicking is vastly overblown. Play MoP with alternate picking, move on with your life.
> 
> ...






I strongly disagree. It was this highly spec'd custom shop guitar that made the guitarist sound better


----------



## chipchappy (Jul 12, 2022)

metal is overrated


----------



## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I strongly disagree. It was this highly spec'd custom shop guitar that made the guitarist sound better



EVH was way before my time, but I always found it hilarious that those superstrats with crooked bridge pickups were all the rage at some point.

If there was an ultra famous player who put an epoxied turd in the control cavity, we'd have people fighting to the death on forums arguing about how the stool composition ends up affecting the tone, and that Chinese knockoffs are a complete crap (no pun intended) because they use cow putties.


----------



## thrsher (Jul 12, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> Opeth made a mistake


savage......i love it


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> EVH was way before my time, but I always found it hilarious that those superstrats with crooked bridge pickups were all the rage at some point.
> 
> If there was an ultra famous player who put an epoxied turd in the control cavity, we'd have people fighting to the death on forums arguing about how the stool composition ends up affecting the tone, and that Chinese knockoffs are a complete crap (no pun intended) because they use cow putties.


My understanding is EVH put the pickup in crooked because there was no f-spaced humbucker and this allowed the Gibson pickup pole pieces to line up better with the strings. Then yes it became a fad as monkey see monkey do


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 12, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.


Oh yeah, this is a good one.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 12, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Oh shit, we're doing guitar hot takes?
> 
> - The importance of downpicking is vastly overblown. Play MoP with alternate picking, move on with your life.
> 
> ...


Hey you wanna take this out back buddy?  I've never been so attacked in my life


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 12, 2022)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> buckethead has *not* released enough albums...


Also, buckethead is very respected and namedropped by many, but most people honestly haven’t listened to buckethead much (myself included). And while I’m at it: what I have heard was incredible.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 12, 2022)

@youngthrasher9 I'm a little biased as big B has been my favorite player since picking up the instrument some 15+ years ago, but he's legit - an actual GOAT. His body of work can be intimidating but there's a ton of recommendation charts and lists you can find.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @youngthrasher9 I'm a little biased as big B has been my favorite player since picking up the instrument some 15+ years ago, but he's legit - an actual GOAT. His body of work can be intimidating but there's a ton of recommendation charts and lists you can find.


I recently heard Pike 65 and told myself I’d listen to more of his work. The melodies in that made me legit emotional.


----------



## MFB (Jul 12, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> I recently heard Pike 65 and told myself I’d listen to more of his work. The melodies in that made me legit emotional.



I feel like most of his stuff up through Crime Slunk Scene was pretty melodically coherent, but at a certain point it seemed like his stuff just went over the edge and it was just everything and anything can be a song/album, and he's been putting stuff out at even higher rate than before.

_Population Override_ will always be my favorite from him, maybe because it's the _least_ likely to be from him?


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 12, 2022)

Alright now I’ll contribute:

Whammy pedal use almost always ruins a song for me.

Shred is bodybuilding for guitar players and djent is non-combat martial arts.

Symphonic elements in metal are hilariously overused.

John Petrucci is amazing but dream theater sucks.

Metallica hasn’t had a good guitar sound in decades. 

Some of the best current death metal vocalists are in deathcore bands. 

War Eternal is the best Arch Enemy album and Alissa White-Gluz is an unlikeable vocalist otherwise.

The best uses of Mikael Akerfeldts vocals were on Unblessing the Purity (other than BWP, that doesn’t count).

Clean guitar parts in metal are usually boring as fuck and poorly executed.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

I'd list my favourite Buckethead albums from top to bottom, but I don't think it'd all fit in one post, or even one thread... 

I've always had a soft spot for _Somewhere over the Slaughterhouse_, mainly because of when it came out and how it spoke to me at that time, but _The_ _Cuckoo Clocks of Hell _is my #1. _Enter the Chicken_ was really good, too. Next up I'd put _Giant Robot_, then _Monsters and Robots_ and then _Bucketheadland 2, _and then SotS. I'm a huge Buckethead fan, so I'll listen to any of his records pikes or whatever. I wish I had seen him more in concert, but I've still managed to check out 3 shows. Each one was totally different in tone but they all blew me away.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 12, 2022)

Here's one that's difficult for me to embrace myself:

Being a musician has progressively made my taste in music worse over time.

The stuff I prefer to listen to nowadays would be considered unlistenable to most people.

I went from liking the Police to Stevie Wonder to Led Zeppelin to Metallica to Dream Theater to Symphony X to Spastic Ink to Happy Family to Estradasphere to Vladimir Bozar in ze Sheraf Orchestrar...


----------



## akinari (Jul 12, 2022)

Kreator and Razor are the best thrash bands of their day.

Dillinger Escape Plan should have called it quits after the EP with Mike Patton.

Opeth were always terrible as a metal band and couldn't structure a song coherently to save their lives.

Mastodon are just Five Finger Death Punch for democrats and people who drink IPAs.

Nu metal was a more interesting sub genre than djent which is just a Xeroxed version of nu metal from a printer running out of toner.

Wes Borland is not underrated.

Crimson by Edge of Sanity sucks.

Slaughter of the Soul is both the worst At the Gates album and one of the most uninspired melodeath albums ever made, which explains why lots of metalcore is so worthless.

Lamb of God are one of the most boring bands to ever come out of their city.

98% of deathcore is uninteresting, bland edgelord music written by millenials on a cocktail of Adderall, weed and internet porn to appeal to insecure guys who feel empowered by their Very Terrifying Taste in Music™ and girls who want to date misogynistic guys with lip rings.

Most subgenres are no more stagnant than they were 20 years ago and anyone who says that is a lazy, uninformed whiner who probably expects algorithms to find stuff for them instead of doing the legwork themselves.

Dio was the worst singer Black Sabbath ever had.

The Sound of Perseverance should never have been released under the Death name and is by far the worst album in the catalogue.

The poser Napalm Death albums are way cooler than anything they did afterwards.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 12, 2022)

akinari said:


> Crimson by Edge of Sanity sucks.



there's a first for everything, I guess


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Here's one that's difficult for me to embrace myself:
> 
> Being a musician has progressively made my taste in music worse over time.
> 
> ...



Definitely relate to this. I listen to a lot of weird noise/drone and abrasive shit like death grips and I think it's all brilliant but let's just say it's not much fun at parties and I try to filter my music heavily when I'm playing it at work.


----------



## Quiet Coil (Jul 12, 2022)

Rob Zombie is just a rapper with a sore throat (and totally lost me after WZ broke up).


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> View attachment 110634
> 
> 
> I strongly disagree. It was this highly spec'd custom shop guitar that made the guitarist sound better


He also referred to it as his "red piece of shit," and probably paid about 400 bucks for it in total. That aside, he could've played a Classic Vibe series Squier and made it sound great.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @youngthrasher9 I'm a little biased as big B has been my favorite player since picking up the instrument some 15+ years ago, but he's legit - an actual GOAT. His body of work can be intimidating but there's a ton of recommendation charts and lists you can find.


Link one, please.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I'd list my favourite Buckethead albums from top to bottom, but I don't think it'd all fit in one post, or even one thread...
> 
> I've always had a soft spot for _Somewhere over the Slaughterhouse_, mainly because of when it came out and how it spoke to me at that time, but _The_ _Cuckoo Clocks of Hell _is my #1. _Enter the Chicken_ was really good, too. Next up I'd put _Giant Robot_, then _Monsters and Robots_ and then _Bucketheadland 2, _and then SotS. I'm a huge Buckethead fan, so I'll listen to any of his records pikes or whatever. I wish I had seen him more in concert, but I've still managed to check out 3 shows. Each one was totally different in tone but they all blew me away.


I have liked what I have listened to from Buckethead, but the dude has like 400 releases, so it's a bit confusing what to start with. I LOVED the Doom soundtrack.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 12, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Here's one that's difficult for me to embrace myself:
> 
> Being a musician has progressively made my taste in music worse over time.
> 
> ...


You need more Prashant Aswani in your life, bro...


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 12, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> Shred is bodybuilding for guitar players and djent is non-combat martial arts.



This is profound.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 12, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> djent is non-combat martial arts.


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 12, 2022)

akinari said:


> Mastodon are just Five Finger Death Punch for democrats and people who drink IPAs


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 13, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Link one, please.



Here's a slightly dated but well curated bunch of charts and here's a_ literal_ Pike Suggester. The real tragedy is even with this level of documentation there's _still_ great live-only songs he never put on any album or Pike series. You'll literally have to YouTube 'Untitled' plus a date to find certain ones and a bunch of them are phenomenal. His more ambient stuff is heavily sampled in some contemporary hip-hop, too.

As stated, his body of work is extremely dense and somewhat turbulent to navigate. Personally speaking I find a good introduction to his music is to separate the basics: Pre-Pike and post-Pike. When he began the Pike series his output reach _turbo+ mode _and that level of consistent volume coupled with all his pre-Pike stuff (solo work, collaborations, side projects, various bands, studio albums, film work, etc.) makes a sum total approach a bit convoluted. His discography has its own hilariously long page and you'll actually find it useful. I suggest you check out the classic recommended pre-Pike stuff as per the first link and then start going through the Pike Suggester.

It's an absolutely massive amount of music to go through and as most everyone who's done so will tell you: completely worth it. You may not like every album but you will certainly find something you like, and the odds of you running out if you're starting _now_ is a far-off concern.

Personal 'chill vibes Buckethead' pre-Pike recommendations: Colma, Electric Tears, Population Override, A Real Diamond in the Rough, Captain EO's Voyage.

Personal 'fuck yeah, Buckethead' pre-Pike recommendations: The Elephant Man's Alarm Clock, Giant Robot, Monsters and Robots, The Cuckoo Clocks of Hell, Albino Slug, Decoding the Tomb of Bansheebot, Pepper's Ghost, Enter the Chicken.

Best of luck to you.


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## seekfreed (Jul 13, 2022)

Basically @All


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 13, 2022)

nickgray said:


>


The edge on that blade is so sharp I got cut from here


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 13, 2022)

Not a hot take in the least (especially given my first comment in this thread) but just me tossing my sprinkling-of-black-pepper-opinion amongst the scorching-hot-habanero-takes in here:

Chill Buckethead is best Buckethead. Too Many Humans, Padmasana, Electric Tears, Sled Ride, A Real Diamond in the Rough are all such great songs. It's cool that most people know of him from Guitar Hero because of Jordan but Chill Buckethead deserves more recognition. Also, IIRC the GH version of Jordan is not even the original recording of the song and they asked him to amp it up for the game to make it insanely hard to play.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

I thought of a few, but a big one that might ruffle some feathers is the following:

I really feel the vast majority of bands out there, particularly either lesser known or unsigned/local bands, don't see success because the songs suck. Yes, I am obviously aware that how the music industry works, especially today, is not a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination....but whenever there's an instance of

- "man my band is working their butts off, but in today's world we all gotta work day jobs and probably will never make this a full time thing" 
- "there's some killer local bands, check them out" 
- "my dad was in a band that released a major label album in the 70s, opened for HUGE bands, but just couldn't break through that ceiling"
-really any time I've gone to a local show

9 times out of 10, the songs just frankly aren't that good compared to the bands that did make it. Fuck, in college I was in a I guess melodic death metal band, but our songs sucked (only one member at the time seemed to find the time to write anything while balancing a full college workload, so we didn't have anything better to present to him/it became more of a friends hanging out thing by the end), but even then I was shocked at how much success you can see with shitty songs that could delude someone into thinking their songs are good lol. 

Maybe it specifically is an underground/non mainstream metal thing, but I remember distinctly thinking at the time that the big bands a la the top draws on labels like Nuclear Blast, Sumerian etc were basically only "one step up", kind of like your direct manager/supervisor in the 9-5 world. Though I think that's more a sign of how little real world success being a draw in extreme metal is in general.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I thought of a few, but a big one that might ruffle some feathers is the following:
> 
> I really feel the vast majority of bands out there, particularly either lesser known or unsigned/local bands, don't see success because the songs suck. Yes, I am obviously aware that how the music industry works, especially today, is not a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination....but whenever there's an instance of
> 
> ...


Either the songs suck, or the band won't quite put together a look (even in extreme music this matters, whether neckbeards admit it or not), or they can't/won't take a chance on a show/tour/etc. Mostly, it's because the songs suck. IME the difference between a lot of known bands and a lot local bands that have all the ability is that most of those local bands are writing to fit a sound instead of writing from their inspiration.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Either the songs suck, or the band won't quite put together a look (even in extreme music this matters, whether neckbeards admit it or not), or they can't/won't take a chance on a show/tour/etc. Mostly, it's because the songs suck. IME the difference between a lot of known bands and a lot local bands that have all the ability is that most of those local bands are writing to fit a sound instead of writing from their inspiration.



yeah, I think an extreme point is really every band that we either all love here or is considered some of the best, whether Sabbath, Priest/Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Death, (old) In Flames etc, really all of them weren't trying to be in a specific subgenre, they really just found their sound.

A particular example of that is thrash, I feel like all of the big 4 were just writing what they wanted to write, and in my head when I think of a "Stereotypical thrash sound" I definitely think of a lesser known band like Evil Dead or even some band like Forbidden...seems like at that point it was more of a "we love thrash, let's copy" instead of how Metallica and company were inspired by classic heavy metal, NWOBHM and the like and thrash metal was basically their unique take on it.


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## bostjan (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I thought of a few, but a big one that might ruffle some feathers is the following:
> 
> I really feel the vast majority of bands out there, particularly either lesser known or unsigned/local bands, don't see success because the songs suck. Yes, I am obviously aware that how the music industry works, especially today, is not a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination....but whenever there's an instance of
> 
> ...


I happen to disagree. There are a tons of songs that suck that get tons of exposure, and there are tons of great songs that do not. Sure, the proportion of sucky songs that go big is smaller, but I think that points to there being factors other than how good your songs are at play.

First off, the obvious part is that how much a song sucks is pretty much purely subjective. But to say 9 times out of 10... I'm not seeing it from the same perspective as you do.

And this applies to a wider discussion than music, you could apply this to pretty much any career/industry, only to qualify that, I'd say that _how these principles apply _varies.

But the number one thing that no one likes to admit is that luck always plays a big part. The world is a complex place and very little of the world around us is ever fully within our control. But we _love_ love *love* to believe that we _are_ in control, which is why no one likes to think about how much of a part luck comes into play.

I'll counter your anecdote with my own personal anecdotal experience. I played in tons of bands. 

My first band ever, let's call us "band A," was actually pretty good. We were all under 16. I was the oldest, just about to turn 16, and I was the weakest link in the band. We had a good singer who also played lead guitar and we had an awesome drummer, and also a revolving door of bass players of varying levels of skill. We got together to jam, worked out a mixture of covers and originals, and started booking gigs, all within two months. We probably put in quite a bit of work to our sound, but really no unified look or whatever, and we never even stuck with a name for our band for more than a week. But we kept racking up paying gigs. Probably a lot of it had to do with the novelty factor of "wow, that drummer is only 12, dude, check it out!" We also didn't turn anything down, as far as gigs went. It was a blast, but eventually the drummer's mom caught him with weed, and then we got a new drummer, who was also great, but was my age, and we played maybe a few too many weird gigs, and burnt out. I'd say our skill level was 5/10, work ethic 3/10, and success level was a solid 4/10. Not bad for a bunch of young teenagers for one summer vacation, though. 

I won't go through every band I was in, but in another band, "band B," we worked really really hard. We sounded okay at best, but had an "image" and logos and merch and CD's (before homemade CD's were even really a thing anyone heard of). Our songs were maybe a little on the generic side for my taste, and everyone knew how to play their instruments quite well. We stuck it out for years hoping to get whatever break we could get, which always seemed like it was just out of reach. I think maybe that band fits your conjecture well, since our weakness was most likely our lackluster songs. Granted, at the time, we thought our songs were pretty good. But I'd rate band B's skill level 7/10, work ethic 8/10, and success maybe 2/10, since we played a lot of paying gigs, but it seemed like we got zero recognition in local press despite years of work trying to push just a little higher. 

Now, take "band C," which was the most hilarious example. These guys were all close friends long before I met them. There was a pretty good drummer, a rhythm guitarist who had been playing maybe a year, and a bassist who, well, honestly, didn't know how to play even. The problem was that the drummer wanted to be a singer and didn't want to play drums, so he got a buddy of his who was a singer to play drums (I know it makes no sense- I promise none of this makes sense to me, either). Not that I'm a great player, especially at this point, but I was like the only one in the band who had spent any considerable amount of time in the role, you know. We sounded like shit. Personalities were really shitty, too. The singer picked a fight with the promoter at a big show we did. We went into the studio to record songs, but, since no one could play their own parts, it ended up being me doing all of the guitars and bass parts and the singer playing the drums and then the engineer making the most hilarious faces when recording the vocal parts. Obviously none of this ever saw the light of day. But weirdly enough, we got a shit ton of gigs, we had a record contract on the table for us, but I didn't like the terms, which seemed exploitive, so I quit the band rather than sign. Prior to that, we recorded a soundtrack for an indie movie (which never got used). We had toured around Michigan and Ohio, and when I quit, there was a plan to tour the West Coast. Skill level 1/10, work ethic 1/10, success level 7/10. How the hell do you explain that?

Well, my theory behind these three data points, as well as other stories I won't get into right now, is that there is no one formula for success. However, there is one factor that plays a big part that no one wants to acknowledge- luck. And, furthermore, there is one other factor that probably everyone knows but no one really wants to say out loud, and that is sex appeal. Band A was a bunch of young kids. There was novelty factor, but sex appeal wasn't really there. Band B - I don't want to be mean, but we didn't have sex appeal. Band C - the frontman was 6'4", skinny, blue eyes and dark hair, and the ladies loved him. The bass player had defined muscles and always performed with his shirt off. That's the only thing I can think of when trying to rationalize why we kept fucking up gigs yet always managed to book more. I've played in tons of bands with females in them and they always do much better success-wise considering the level of skill and work ethic. But this should surprise no one.

Anyway, how good your songs are is, at most, 3rd or 4th on the list (personally, I think even hard work is a bigger determining factor than how good the songs are). You could have the shittiest song in the world, but if you have a hot singer combined with better-than-average luck, I bet you could hit the Billboard Top 10. If your front-person was so ugly that their parents left them in the woods to be raised by wolves, but the wolves thought they were too ugly, and you have no-better-than-average luck, you could have the best song in the universe and work harder than any band out there and you'll be nobody. Maybe it makes me seem like an ass for pointing this out, but I certainly didn't make this rule.

And, like I said, you can apply this principle to any industry. Luck and good lucks will always factor in. I don't care if you are doing structural welding or porn - it will play some sort of role in determining success.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> yeah, I think an extreme point is really every band that we either all love here or is considered some of the best, whether Sabbath, Priest/Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, Death, (old) In Flames etc, really all of them weren't trying to be in a specific subgenre, they really just found their sound.
> 
> A particular example of that is thrash, I feel like all of the big 4 were just writing what they wanted to write, and in my head when I think of a "Stereotypical thrash sound" I definitely think of a lesser known band like Evil Dead or even some band like Forbidden...seems like at that point it was more of a "we love thrash, let's copy" instead of how Metallica and company were inspired by classic heavy metal, NWOBHM and the like and thrash metal was basically their unique take on it.



Hang on a second, Forbidden kicked ass! And so did a lot of other thrash bands in the late 80s.

I agree that often the trailblazers make better music than the copycats but in the late 80s thrash hadn't lost its spark yet and many bands were pushing boundaries in their own way. Forbidden Evil and Twisted into Form both demolish The Black Album when it comes to quality but which album sold the most?

Remember the late 80s bands didn't have the head start or the management or the touring opportunities that a band like Metallica had.


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## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 13, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I happen to disagree. There are a tons of songs that suck that get tons of exposure, and there are tons of great songs that do not. Sure, the proportion of sucky songs that go big is smaller, but I think that points to there being factors other than how good your songs are at play.
> 
> First off, the obvious part is that how much a song sucks is pretty much purely subjective. But to say 9 times out of 10... I'm not seeing it from the same perspective as you do.
> 
> ...



buddy out here writing a novel. 
what if there's no formula and what if there's no heirarchy to causes of success and what if this is just a forum for extended range guitar nerds and


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## nickgray (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I really feel the vast majority of bands out there, particularly either lesser known or unsigned/local bands, don't see success because the songs suck.



I bet you would've thought the same of a lot of famous bands if you had only heard their very early demos (demos, not the actual first album). Or we can go a bit further and imagine if a lot of famous bands only released that first album. What would you have thought of that album in that context? Cool underground shit some wacky forum users post.


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## nickgray (Jul 13, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> and what if this is just a forum for extended range guitar nerds and



This is a six string guitar forum.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Hang on a second, Forbidden kicked ass! And so did a lot of other thrash bands in the late 80s.
> 
> I agree that often the trailblazers make better music than the copycats but in the late 80s thrash hadn't lost its spark yet and many bands were pushing boundaries in their own way. Forbidden Evil and Twisted into Form both demolish The Black Album when it comes to quality but which album sold the most?
> 
> Remember the late 80s bands didn't have the head start or the management or the touring opportunities that a band like Metallica had.


I shouldn't have used Forbidden, because I also like them a lot haha, it was more how depending on how "precise" a person's definition of a genre is (in this case thrash) I often feel the albums considered the best actually aren't as "pure" to the genre as others.


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## jco5055 (Jul 13, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I bet you would've thought the same of a lot of famous bands if you had only heard their very early demos (demos, not the actual first album). Or we can go a bit further and imagine if a lot of famous bands only released that first album. What would you have thought of that album in that context? Cool underground shit some wacky forum users post.



possibly, but at least for bands that have broken up demos would be all I have to go off of, kinda like how sports debates are like "what if this college player was never killed in a car crash" just speculation because of the lack of later opportunities to actually see.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I shouldn't have used Forbidden, because I also like them a lot haha, it was more how depending on how "precise" a person's definition of a genre is (in this case thrash) I often feel the albums considered the best actually aren't as "pure" to the genre as others.



Yeah again I don't entirely disagree but I think it's oversimplifying. For thrash, that genre was on fire in the 80s, even the more "generic" bands were on average really good. And even bands like Metallica had songs that were not that special. Escape, Leper Messiah, Shortest Straw... These songs are not impressive. Even a song like For Whom the Bell Tolls is not very impressive. A reasonably cool bass intro, a guitar lead more or less lifted from Fairies Wear Boots, a simple verse, a simple chorus... It's not great.


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## xzacx (Jul 13, 2022)

akinari said:


> The Sound of Perseverance should never have been released under the Death name and is by far the worst album in the catalogue.


I'll see this, and raise you that nothing after Leprosy is worth listening to.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 14, 2022)

will fans of ghost be able to tell if the band sells out?


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## works0fheart (Jul 14, 2022)

Also, it's 2022 and djent still sucks. Does all of this forum still love it as much as they did in 2014?


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## Zer01 (Jul 14, 2022)

Far Beyond Driven is the worst of Pantera’s latter-day albums. Uninspired songwriting, lack of solos, Phil’s screeching, and a guitar apparently recorded in a toilet. And the worst thing they ever did: Good Friends and a bottle of Pills.

The drums are good.


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## Genome (Jul 14, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> there's a first for everything, I guess



 This was the first opinion in this whole thread that made me shout "NO!" at my screen, quite an achievement


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## Genome (Jul 14, 2022)

nickgray said:


> - Likewise, getting a $4k super specced guitar won't really do anything. It's a cool guitar, but it won't improve your playing. It's not the guitar, it never was.
> 
> - There are no silver bullets. No best guitar, no most versatile guitar, no "that one thing that helped you the most". I really wish beginners would understand this.



Couldn't agree more here. Instruments are meant to inspire you to play and make music. that's it. For different people, this will mean entirely different things, and finding that is the journey.

Some people will be inspired by a boutique guitar and amp, some will be inspired by a £100 guitar and a cheap distortion pedal. If that's what drives them to make music, fantastic. 

Gear snobbery drives me insane. It entirely misses the point.


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## tian (Jul 14, 2022)

nickgray said:


> - Likewise, getting a $4k super specced guitar won't really do anything. It's a cool guitar, but it won't improve your playing. It's not the guitar, it never was.
> 
> - There are no silver bullets. No best guitar, no most versatile guitar, no "that one thing that helped you the most". I really wish beginners would understand this.


I got a lot more open-minded about guitar specs after hearing session players talking about putting down takes and then being asked to redo it immediately on a different guitar or several. 

Tried to imagine them going "Okay but what is the nut width and what size frets does it have..."


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## Metropolis (Jul 14, 2022)

What even is "djent" at this point? Is it just a slur to express how someone doesn't like modern metal?

Is this djent?


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## tian (Jul 14, 2022)

Metropolis said:


> What even is "djent" at this point? Is it just a slur to express how someone doesn't like modern metal?


IMO, the same as it's ever been.

(I love that the meme video has outlived the original. Bonus BRJ sighting.)

The djent thing really isn't that deep even though it's been something people have bickered about for over a decade now. It's onomatopoeia. Does the song have prominent riffs that go "djent, djent, djent"? If it passes the audible "sniff test" so to speak, it's fair to say it's djent.

The genre has grown, evolved (maybe...) and picked up new defining traits along the way but has any djent band really wandered all that far away from the Meshuggah-inspired early Periphery/SikTh sound to be that ambiguous?


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## MFB (Jul 14, 2022)

Jesus, that tone is insufferable when he shows the pick attack sound, yikes


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## Emperoff (Jul 14, 2022)

tian said:


> IMO, the same as it's ever been.
> 
> (I love that the meme video has outlived the original. Bonus BRJ sighting.)



Man, that video sure brings memories! You know, like Misha, Nolly and Keith Merrow sponsoring Bernie Rico Jr. guitars here while hundreds of customers were being scammed


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 14, 2022)

Mudvayne never deserved to be lumped into numetal and LD50 is still a fucking great album


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## Crungy (Jul 14, 2022)

Goddamn right it is!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 14, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Man, that video sure brings memories! You know, like Misha, Nolly and Keith Merrow sponsoring Bernie Rico Jr. guitars here while hundreds of customers were being scammed


From scamming people buying into the BRJ nonsense to presenting amps as MIA when they never were. "Just put a sticker on it!" Lmao. Where are the photos Misha?


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## sakeido (Jul 14, 2022)

MFB said:


> Jesus, that tone is insufferable when he shows the pick attack sound, yikes


I always thought it was weird that a guy with bad tone makes a ton of money selling other people his bad tone. Nolly should have gotten all that money instead



akinari said:


> Nu metal was a more interesting sub genre than djent which is just a Xeroxed version of nu metal from a printer running out of toner.


it really was. Nu metal had more variety of style and sound at any single given moment, than djent managed to cover in 15 years. 

People hate (hated?) on metalcore/NWOAHM/deathcore/whatever but all of those subgenres have amounted to much more than djent ever has. Deathcore especially was beaten all up and down the internet like a red headed stepchild for all of the 2000s but here it is still doing great all these years later whereas I'm not even sure if djent is really a thing anymore.


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## bostjan (Jul 14, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> buddy out here writing a novel.
> what if there's no formula and what if there's no heirarchy to causes of success and what if this is just a forum for extended range guitar nerds and


It's okay, no one will read my post because it's too long, but no one will read yours, either, because you forgot to type it all out, so we'll call it even. 


Spaced Out Ace said:


> From scamming people buying into the BRJ nonsense to presenting amps as MIA when they never were. "Just put a sticker on it!" Lmao. Where are the photos Misha?


Not a defense by any means, but the whole "Made in America" sticker ploy had been used in the guitar industry many times.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 14, 2022)

sakeido said:


> metalcore/NWOAHM/deathcore/whatever but all of those subgenres have amounted to much more than djent ever has



The secret was the dulcet tones of the EMG 81.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 14, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> The secret was the dulcet tones of the EMG 81.









name a more iconic duo.. I'll wait.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 14, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> name a more iconic duo.. I'll wait.


jb/jazz


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## gunch (Jul 14, 2022)

tian said:


> IMO, the same as it's ever been.
> 
> (I love that the meme video has outlived the original. Bonus BRJ sighting.)
> 
> ...




I've said this before but the fact that nobody took like, Meshuggah's dark transhumanism themes are walked further with them kind of sucks. I've never seen actual Djent band lyrics and went "Oh, that's sick as fuck" 

I'm a carnal, organic anagram
Human flesh instead of written letters
I rearrange my pathetic tissue
I incise, I replace, I'm reformed
I eradicate the fake pre-present me
Elevate me to a higher human form
The characters I am
Made into a word complete
Then I'll be the new norm
Self-inflicted fractures
I replace my bones with bars
Aluminum bleeding oxide
Drug of gods into my pounding veins
My receiving eyes exchanged with fuses
Blindness induced to prevent destruction
Ceramic blades implanted past my ribs
To save me from the dues of inhalation
I tear my worthless, useless skin
Staples to pin it over my ears
Non-receptive of ungodly sounds
I disable the audio-generators of fear
Hexagonal bolts to fill my mouth
Sharpened to deplete
The creator of all violence
Without speech there will be no deceit
Baptized in vitriolic acid
A final touch, a smoothing of features
Completion of the greatest art
To cast all godly creatures
Humans, once astray, made divine
Stripped of congenital flaws
We're incandescent revelations
In a world of darkened forms
Disciples
Come join with me
To save a failed humanity
Follow the god of cyanide into the new eternity
Behold, a sacrificial race
In cleansing worshiping of pain
The new millennium Christ
Here to redeem all from lies
Lies!


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 14, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> jb/jazz


Asked and answered.


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## Soya (Jul 15, 2022)

Thrash sucks.


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## BusinessMan (Jul 15, 2022)

Soya said:


> Thrash sucks.


Ya about 93% of it. There are some good ones though. Evile comes to mind (not their newest album, I don't care for it).


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 15, 2022)

Soya said:


> Not all Thrash sucks.


fixed it for you. 
Vektor, Lich King, Havok, Warbringer, Kreator, Annihilator, Testament, Exodus are all sick af.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 15, 2022)

I was a deathcore kid in the 2000's. I fucking love breakdowns and beatdowns and djent appealed to me at first with the start stop rhymic stuff. Then people started fucking SINGING on it.


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## KentBrockman (Jul 20, 2022)

Ok, time to bite back with Kent Brockman...

1. Periphery is boring.

2. Black Clouds & Silver Linings and Images and Words are Dream Theater's two best albums. A View from the Top of the World is probably third. Scenes from a Memory is fourth. Either Six Degrees or their self-titled album is fifth.

3. I don't understand how anyone over the age of 13 can listen to Slayer unironically.

4. Chris Broderick was Megadeth's greatest guitarist.


----------



## Esp Griffyn (Jul 20, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> That Corabi album is so good. I think Richie got lost in the Shrapnel group and was pigeon holed as just another shredder.



The irony is that Richie is an amazing fusion but he just dumbs it down and plays shitty rock and metal because that's where the money is. Like the Winery Dogs are awful and with 3 world class musicians, you expect a lot more but it's just super bland, dull radio rock.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 20, 2022)

Esp Griffyn said:


> The irony is that Richie is an amazing fusion but he just dumbs it down and plays shitty rock and metal because that's where the money is. Like the Winery Dogs are awful and with 3 world class musicians, you expect a lot more but it's just super bland, dull radio rock.


I mean it's the same thing with Chickenfoot. How does a group with Hagar, Michael Anthony and Satch sound so boring.


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## tian (Jul 20, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I was a deathcore kid in the 2000's. I fucking love breakdowns and beatdowns and djent appealed to me at first with the start stop rhymic stuff. Then people started fucking SINGING on it.


This is so painfully true. There was a short window of time where so much of this stuff sounded so good and I think a lot of us were projecting the vocals we expected for the final recordings. And that very much did NOT come to pass.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 20, 2022)

Since we're on the topic of deathcore:

Slamdancing is fucking lame and you look dumb as hell doing it. 

More than half of the pricks doing it also like to get in the middle of the pit and start flailing their limbs around without caring about who they hit, or they specifically target people. Glad I've come to terms with being too old to be in the middle of the pit anymore and can avoid them now.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 20, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> Since we're on the topic of deathcore:
> 
> Slamdancing is fucking lame and you look dumb as hell doing it.
> 
> More than half of the pricks doing it also like to get in the middle of the pit and start flailing their limbs around without caring about who they hit, or they specifically target people. Glad I've come to terms with being too old to be in the middle of the pit anymore and can avoid them now.


who crowdkills the crowdkillers?


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> who crowdkills the crowdkillers?


The big guy in the godsmack shirt, in my experience.


----------



## Crungy (Jul 20, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> Ok, time to bite back with Kent Brockman...
> 
> 1. Periphery is boring.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kenny Brockelstein!


----------



## Crungy (Jul 20, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> Since we're on the topic of deathcore:
> 
> Slamdancing is fucking lame and you look dumb as hell doing it.
> 
> More than half of the pricks doing it also like to get in the middle of the pit and start flailing their limbs around without caring about who they hit, or they specifically target people. Glad I've come to terms with being too old to be in the middle of the pit anymore and can avoid them now.


Someone has to kill those invisible ninjas!


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 20, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> The big guy in the godsmack shirt, in my experience.


I always hear about this fabled person, but in all my years of deathcore/hardcore shows I've never actually seen them.


----------



## Musiscience (Jul 20, 2022)

Crungy said:


> Maybe not flaming hot, but a recent listen to Reroute to Remain didn't sound like total garbage and slapped harder than I remembered. Maybe I need my ears checked.


Never got the hate for that album either, there's some fun song writing and experimentations on there. 

Soundtrack to Your Escape and Come Clarity were great as well. Anything after that I don't really care for.


----------



## dspellman (Jul 20, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> I will alternate pick gallops until the day I day.


Or until you get arthritis in that wrist. At which point you'll discover jazz.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 20, 2022)

dspellman said:


> Or until you get arthritis in that wrist. At which point you'll discover jazz.



*Tries 1 jazzy chord
*instant carpal tunnel syndrome


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> who crowdkills the crowdkillers?


Some 20 year old who doesn't mind eating a few 'bows in the process. 

I like my teeth.


----------



## dspellman (Jul 20, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> *Tries 1 jazzy chord
> *instant carpal tunnel syndrome


...Goes to doctor to get that "trigger finger" shot.
Brags about being able to downpick gallops once upon a time to anyone within earshot.


----------



## Crungy (Jul 20, 2022)

Musiscience said:


> Never got the hate for that album either, there's some fun song writing and experimentations on there.
> 
> Soundtrack to Your Escape and Come Clarity were great as well. Anything after that I don't really care for.


I always liked the album but shortly after getting into to other music at the time the overall mix sounded weird, drums especially. 

Now when I listen it doesn't seem to have that hollow washed out drum tone I remember. (I did experience that weird sound on different speakers and headphones back in the day)


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 20, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> Some 20 year old who doesn't mind eating a few 'bows in the process.
> 
> I like my teeth.


used to be me. I'd go out of my way to hit those dudes. Now idgaf


----------



## k5beaststa (Jul 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 1. Ghost is an awful blue oyster cult tribute band masquerading as a metal band.
> 2. Spawn of Possession is still the undisputed pinnacle of tech death.
> 3. Loathe is just a Deftones tribute band.
> 4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.
> 5. Kreator is singlehandedly heavier and more consistent than all of the big 4 of thrash.


How haven't I heard about Fit For an Autopsy before! Thank you.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

Accoun said:


> Slayer should have been contractually obligated to include no more than one track over 3:30, maybe just 3:00, of actual music (so stuff like the atmospheric outro in Raining Blood doesn't count) per album.


They should have been contractually obligated to write one or two albums of great songs, rather than multiple albums with two great songs + a load of filler.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> 1. Ghost is an awful blue oyster cult tribute band masquerading as a metal band.
> 2. Spawn of Possession is still the undisputed pinnacle of tech death.
> 3. Loathe is just a Deftones tribute band.
> 4. Fit For An Autopsy is doing Gojira better than Gojira.
> 5. Kreator is singlehandedly heavier and more consistent than all of the big 4 of thrash.


1. How does anyone not think this? (Also, something about how their guitarists posture on stage reminds me of The Hives...don't ask me to explain).
2. Noctambulant is certainly up there! I honestly couldn't pick one best band.
3. Deftones tribute band only playing material that wasn't good enough to be a B-side. (I hadn;t heard of them until they replaced Dark Tranquility at Bloodstock Festival last year...I was not happy).
4. Had never heard of Fit For An Autopsy until now, but the opening riff of the first result on YouTube sounded very much like Gojira...until the vocals kicked in. I prefer Gojira's vocals.
5. Without a doubt...yet I don't listen to them more than all of the big 4.


----------



## gunch (Jul 20, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> I honestly couldn't pick one best band.


Necrophagist


----------



## nickgray (Jul 20, 2022)

gunch said:


> Necrophagist



That's a funny way of spelling Archspire


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 20, 2022)

lololol


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

gunch said:


> Necrophagist


They're great, but so are Suffocation, Spawn of Possession, Cryptopsy, Gorguts, Decapitated, Nile, Origin etc.

Btw I know some of those bands have released mediocre / awful albums, but I'm talking about their early / peak sound (Winds of Creation is a masterpiece).


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

Not too controversial, but Opeth should have released all of their non-metal material under the guise of a side-project, because it's so far removed from what they built their reputation on...or have changed their name to acknowledge the departure. Seeing them live and barely hearing many "Opeth" music is essentially false advertising.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 20, 2022)

Decapitated said:


> The only band more overrated than Death is Ghost. There. I said it.


Ghost is more overrated than anything ever. Even more so than Ferrero Rocher and Fender!


----------



## owlexifry (Jul 20, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> Sun eater is such a damn good album. I was just listening to it the other day. The writing, production, instrumentation, vocals are all just stellar.


just listened to this album last night. absolutely agree.
holy crap did this fly under the radar.


----------



## Strobe (Jul 20, 2022)

The lack of hooks, dynamic changes, interesting melodies, rhythm/tempo changes, or even a fucking guitar solo in whole swathes of metal music just suuuuuucks. It's like listening to a vacuum cleaner.


----------



## MFB (Jul 20, 2022)

nickgray said:


> That's a funny way of spelling Archspire



Lolno.

Archspire is like someone unironically listened to those "every ______ song at once" video and thought, "yeah, that should be a band!" If every member is playing their instrument at 10, then there's no dynamics, it's a wall of sound; and you fucks keep complaining about albums being walls of sound until they came along and suddenly it's cool.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> fixed it for you.
> Vektor, Lich King, Havok, Warbringer, Kreator, Annihilator, Testament, Exodus are all sick af.


let's go ahead and add flotsam & jetsam, death angel, and sod/mod to that list...


----------



## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


> Lolno.



To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Archpire.



MFB said:


> If every member is playing their instrument at 10, then there's no dynamics, it's a wall of sound



But seriously, have you actually listened to Archspire? Not a 30 second clip, but a whole album (they're short), and not as a background listen?



MFB said:


> and you fucks keep complaining about albums being walls of sound until they came along and suddenly it's cool.



I'll have you know I'm pissed off about Bleed the Future's production, I don't know whose bright idea it was to brickwall a complex tech death album so that it sounds like some random crap from 00s. Relentless Mutation is just alright, it didn't need to be limited as much either, but it's servicable, unlike Bleed the Future.


----------



## owlexifry (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


> Lolno.
> 
> Archspire is like someone unironically listened to those "every ______ song at once" video and thought, "yeah, that should be a band!" If every member is playing their instrument at 10, then there's no dynamics, it's a wall of sound; and you fucks keep complaining about albums being walls of sound until they came along and suddenly it's cool.


massive agree on this one.
the band is technically brilliant. i want to like them.
but for all the points raised above, it's hard to actually 'enjoy' listening to it, it's just so fatiguing to get through it all


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 21, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Ghost is more overrated than anything ever. Even more so than Ferrero Rocher and Fender!



They can't be all that overrated if half the people alive hate them.

Also, most reductionist takes in this thread saying "this band is just a weak version of this band" are inaccurate.


----------



## works0fheart (Jul 21, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> (Winds of Creation is a masterpiece).



Yes. Super underrated it seems. 

Also Archspire is sick, idk what y'all are smoking. 

My hot take of the day: Kirk's solos on the first 5 Metallica albums are actually pretty good and fit the songs well. I guarantee you Metallica was the intro to metal for over half of this forum and they enjoyed the fuck out of those solos before growing into elitists and parroting how much he sucks (admittedly he was pretty bad from the 90s onwards). He may be based in dad-blues licks but he had a good sense of melody. Was he Marty? No, and if he were it wouldn't have fit the music as well.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> My hot take of the day



Memes aside, the first four albums are legendary and are one of the most influential metal albums of all time. I'd maybe go as far as putting Metallica right after Black Sabbath in terms of importance. Yes, there's Iron Maiden and Judas Priest, but Metallica's impact is really deep and wide. Which means both Lars and Kirk did a great job. Yes, even Lars.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 21, 2022)

I usually don't like participating in these kind of threads, but eh, I'll bite. 

Jason Becker ran circles around Marty Friedman every single time they recorded a song together. 

Most high gain pickups suck. Now that there's plenty of high gain amps available, they've become redundant and there's no real point in having them anymore unless you want to sound like mush. 

Tuning lower doesn't necessarily mean heavier. Exhibit A: Acacia Strain's laughable cover of War Pigs. 

Every vocals on djent and tech death sounds like a distant tacked on afterthought since djent guitarists will hog as much musical and sonic space as much as possible. All the more when the singer starts screaming over it all. I'll go as far as tech death doesn't need any vocals at all. 

Michael Schenker's work with the Scorpions is overrated. His absence on Lovedrive would not have made a difference, and was made apparent when Blackout came out. 

John Paul Jones is the most talented member of Zeppelin bar none. 

The whole bedroom self produced musician trend has bred the isolationism that lacks any kind of collaboration or quality control, their music suffers for it. Even funnier when the muso becomes so delusional of their own music they end up not finishing it. You're better off releasing something imperfect and completed but if you refuse to work with established boundaries in fear of compromising your artistic vision, well.... yes I would like fries with that thanks. 

The Boss DS1 is still a great pedal, even for metal. 

All the metal guitars recorded in a mechanic, super edited, quantised is fine if you want that sound. But it feels like cowardice fearing mistakes. All the small string scrapes, miniscule differences in pick attack or note fretting, these 'mistakes' are what makes the guitar sounding organic. But by all means if you want that sound, you can always ditch the guitar altogether and just use a guitar pro midi into an amp sim. 

Rush's Power WIndows is a much better album than Hold Your Fire, Caress Of Steel and the self titled debut. 

Use Your Illusion should've never been a double album. And even then, combine the best songs together still doesn't hold a candle to Appetite. 

You don't need a custom guitar. More often than not, a decent production guitar (with mods or not) is enough to last you a while. 

Post Heritage Opeth is best Opeth. 

Most of the thrash bands after the big 4 are releasing their best material now than their heyday. Death Angel's albums from Killing Season onwards have been great. Testament doesn't count since they're always consistently great. Even their not so greats like Demonic and Brotherhood Of The Snake is better than most thrash band's best albums. 

Speaking of Testament, Testament doing death metal is more heavier and interesting than most death metal bands. 

Hobbyists despite having experience with gear you wish to buy are the last people you should be seeking advice from with said gear. Nothing beats trying out the gear yourself. 

Being full metalhead style and/or acting like a closed minded 'metal or nuttin' attitude is embarrassing for anyone after 40. 

Dehumanizer is the best Black Sabbath album.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 21, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I usually don't like participating in these kind of threads, but eh, I'll bite.
> 
> Jason Becker ran circles around Marty Friedman every single time they recorded a song together.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything here except the opeth and dehumanizer thing. And I really like dehumanizer.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 21, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> The whole bedroom self produced musician trend has bred the isolationism that lacks any kind of collaboration or quality control, their music suffers for it. Even funnier when the muso becomes so delusional of their own music they end up not finishing it. You're better off releasing something imperfect and completed but if you refuse to work with established boundaries in fear of compromising your artistic vision, well.... yes I would like fries with that thanks.


You were thinking of Jari Mäenpää as you typed this right?


Bloody_Inferno said:


> Dehumanizer is the best Black Sabbath album.


I wouldn't say best, but most underrated and most overlooked.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2022)

Strobe said:


> The lack of hooks, dynamic changes, interesting melodies, rhythm/tempo changes, or even a fucking guitar solo in whole swathes of metal music just suuuuuucks. It's like listening to a vacuum cleaner.


Agreed.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 21, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> You were thinking of Jari Mäenpää as you typed this right?



Actually, it was this nugget of a thread, but Wintersun also applies.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Jul 21, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> They can't be all that overrated if half the people alive hate them.
> 
> Also, most reductionist takes in this thread saying "this band is just a weak version of this band" are inaccurate.


The other half of people alive seem to think they're the best thing ever, so yes they can haha!

Their stage aesthetic has somehow led people to believe they're playing metal, even though they're clearly not (not playing metal obviously doesn't make them bad, but this shows how much people's view of the band is warped by the aesthetic). Equally, it somehow makes people think the music is far better than it is. Ditch the costumes etc. and their reputation would be limited to "Swedish rock band with one catchy song".


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

My hot take is Midwest emo is better than metal. Fight me about it.


----------



## gunch (Jul 21, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> They're great, but so are Suffocation, Spawn of Possession, Cryptopsy, Gorguts, Decapitated, Nile, Origin etc.
> 
> Btw I know some of those bands have released mediocre / awful albums, but I'm talking about their early / peak sound (Winds of Creation is a masterpiece).


Most of those are bands that were around before tech death as a sub genre was defined.

I think Epitaph is the benchmark for what a tech death album should be.
Edit: 
In the moment I forgot about early tech death like Atheist and Pestilence. I’m just saying Epitaph is a top 5 in the sub genre at least


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 21, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Being full metalhead style and/or acting like a closed minded 'metal or nuttin' attitude is embarrassing for anyone after 40.


I'd take this a step further and say that it's embarrassing for anyone over 20.


----------



## Crungy (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> My hot take is Midwest emo is better than metal. Fight me about it.


I find it funny I'm from the Midwest, was in an emo-esque band years ago but am not knowledgeable on Midwest emo. Got any recommendations?


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

Crungy said:


> I find it funny I'm from the Midwest, was in an emo-esque band years ago but am not knowledgeable on Midwest emo. Got any recommendations?


American Football
Don Caballero
Invalids (more math rock/Midwest)
Algernon Cadwallader (amazing)
Tiny Moving Parts (Dylan was featured in a fender ad pretty recently, amazing player)
Dads
Microwave
Tigers Jaw
Citizen (from my town, pretty decent)


----------



## brector (Jul 21, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> I'd take this a step further and say that it's embarrassing for anyone over 20.


I'd say 25-30 to be safe lol. 25 or under you can blame on still being a "kid".


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 21, 2022)

Not a hot take....just an honest one. Anyone who says Ghost isn't metal doesn't know what they are talking about....Period. Not arguing they are good or bad metal but they are metal. Not defending Ghost I'm attacking ignorance. It is not Ghost's fault that you think everything in a mask needs to sound like Slipknot. It's not Ghost's fault that they pull from more historical influences than you are aware of because you first learned about metal the first time you walked into Hot Topic.

Do yourself a favor and tell me why Dio's "Rainbow in the Dark" is metal but the song below, Absolution isn't isn't. And while I posted the song's below that previously, tell me how the Scorpions' (a metal band) song Big City Nights isn't the same exact song as Ghost's Dance Macabre


Yes Virginia, this is metal





I've said it before and I will say it again....metal, as a genre has the largest tent in music and not every band in that tent has to make music that inspires crowd surfing or slam dancing. There is nothing wrong with hating Ghost's music, I won't say "Boo" about that (see what I did there) but please become more knowledgeable before you flash your gate keeper card with impunity


----------



## Crungy (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> American Football
> Don Caballero
> Invalids (more math rock/Midwest)
> Algernon Cadwallader (amazing)
> ...


I've heard of American Football but that's it. Thanks!


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 21, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> The other half of people alive seem to think they're the best thing ever, so yes they can haha!
> 
> Their stage aesthetic has somehow led people to believe they're playing metal, even though they're clearly not (not playing metal obviously doesn't make them bad, but this shows how much people's view of the band is warped by the aesthetic). Equally, it somehow makes people think the music is far better than it is. Ditch the costumes etc. and their reputation would be limited to "Swedish rock band with one catchy song".



Meh, I've been listening to them since their debut, and I never once got the impression that they were metal. Besides that, I was listening to them before I even knew what they looked like, so... I just take them for what they are, just a band playing music that happens to have some songs I like. It probably has something to do with the fact that they lean closer to older rock rather than the super polished modern metal thing that's been done to absolute death, so for me, Ghost were a bit of a palette cleanser.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> My hot take is Midwest emo is better than metal. Fight me about it.


I would, but we don't want you sitting in the corner being emo. Lol.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> American Football
> Don Caballero
> Invalids (more math rock/Midwest)
> Algernon Cadwallader (amazing)
> ...


How is Don Caballero Midwest Emo?


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> How is Don Caballero Midwest Emo?


Ehh you're pretty right, I've kinda lumped a lot of those math bands into the genre Tera Melos, Giraffes? Giraffes! etc..


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 21, 2022)

After the Burial should have called it quits after Justin died. They haven't made anything good in ages.

Propagandhi and Billy Talent go harder than most metal bands.

Brad Paisley is a better shredder than 95% of metal shredders.

Scale the Summit is shitty post rock for dream theater nerds.

The worst part about Coheed and Cambria is Claudio's vocals.

Amon Amarth hasn't been good for 15 years at least.

St. Vincent, Sum 41 and Nickelback all have better metal pedigrees than Ghost.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Propagandhi go harder than most metal bands.


----------



## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

12 pages later and there's STILL people thinking shitting on Ghost is a hot take? Jesus fucking Christ, this place some times.

This thread is either the most obvious metal opinions, or people trying to bait.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Propagandhi and Billy Talent go harder than most metal bands.


The guitarist from Billy Talent is a riff monster and a hell of a player.


KnightBrolaire said:


> Brad Paisley is a better shredder than 95% of metal shredders.


His live version of Hot For Teacher is great, shame the crowd couldn't have cared less but I can't blame them for having no idea what's happening lol.


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 21, 2022)

Spencer's vocals for Periphery are the only good thing about Periphery.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 21, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> Spencer's vocals for Periphery are the only good thing about Periphery.


OOOH DAS SPICY


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


> 12 pages later and there's STILL people thinking shitting on Ghost is a hot take? Jesus fucking Christ, this place some times.
> 
> This thread is either the most obvious metal opinions, or people trying to bait.



IMO, a hot take would be somebody praising Ghost here.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Ehh you're pretty right, I've kinda lumped a lot of those math bands into the genre Tera Melos, Giraffes? Giraffes! etc..


I guess I can kind of see it from the Twinkly Guitars(TM) angle, but other than that I don't hear it. I kinda thought vocals were a requirement in the genre.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Brad Paisley is a better shredder than 95% of metal shredders.


Damn, bro. You went hard with this one. Lol. Any evidence of this you wish to present?


----------



## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Scale the Summit is shitty post rock for dream theater nerds.



I worked a Scale the Summit show maybe 6 years ago and it was one of the worst live experiences I've ever seen. They just all faced the drummer and ignored the crowd and just kind of milled about between songs. No energy. Battlecross was added to the bill last second after Trivium dropped and they were a blast live. Pretty standard stuff but they really surprised everyone because they were/are nobodies.


----------



## Giest (Jul 21, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Jason Becker ran circles around Marty Friedman every single time they recorded a song together.



I definitely agree with this one.


----------



## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 21, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Damn, bro. You went hard with this one. Lol. Any evidence of this you wish to present?








LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You


For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.




lmgtfy.app


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> His live version of Hot For Teacher is great, shame the crowd couldn't have cared less but I can't blame them for having no idea what's happening lol.


His pedal was pretty cool. I kind of want to get it again and see how it'd sound into my Two Notes CAB M+.


----------



## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> Spencer's vocals for Periphery are the only good thing about Periphery.


This one physically pains me.


----------



## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Damn, bro. You went hard with this one. Lol. Any evidence of this you wish to present?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 21, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> I worked a Scale the Summit show maybe 6 years ago and it was one of the worst live experiences I've ever seen. They just all faced the drummer and ignored the crowd and just kind of milled about between songs. No energy. Battlecross was added to the bill last second after Trivium dropped and they were a blast live. Pretty standard stuff but they really surprised everyone because they were/are nobodies.


I saw STS a few times back when Travis (from Entheos) was still in. They had awful stage presence when opening for Dream Theater, but the second time I saw them they were a lot better in terms of stage presence. They're definitely not my cup of tea anymore, especially with the newer stylistic shift.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> IMO, a hot take would be somebody praising Ghost here.


I like Ghost


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


>



Brad Paisley reminds me of Arch Enemy. Capable of so much, but appeals to the lowest common denominator because it pays the bills.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jul 21, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Brad Paisley reminds me of Arch Enemy. Capable of so much, but appeals to the lowest common denominator because it pays the bills.



That's how most country guys are


----------



## 7stringDemon (Jul 21, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> I worked a Scale the Summit show maybe 6 years ago and it was one of the worst live experiences I've ever seen. They just all faced the drummer and ignored the crowd and just kind of milled about between songs. No energy. Battlecross was added to the bill last second after Trivium dropped and they were a blast live. Pretty standard stuff but they really surprised everyone because they were/are nobodies.



Same experience when I saw them some 8 to 10 years ago. No movement, hype or presence, though they did at least face the crowd. 

I think, the most damning part was the way that they sold more STS Tab books than they did shirts, CDs or stickers. That doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture of your music.


----------



## Xaeldaren (Jul 21, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Brad Paisley reminds me of Arch Enemy. Capable of so much, but appeals to the lowest common denominator because it pays the bills.



I'm glad Jeff Loomis is enjoying success post-Nevermore but....come on. He's Jeff fucking Loomis. Let the man Loomis.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2022)

Xaeldaren said:


> I'm glad Jeff Loomis is enjoying success post-Nevermore but....come on. He's Jeff fucking Loomis. Let the man Loomis.


And I mean the whole band in general. They're capable of.. not boring music. But they can shit out anything and probably still make bank.


----------



## sakeido (Jul 21, 2022)

I will never fault any musician anywhere for taking the money. Cut your hair and sell out? Fuck yeah man get paid. Ditch the brutal vocals and switch to cleans? Get that bag! Start playing heavy rockabilly? Hell yeah it gets the kids pumped. Put on a pope mask and write dark pop rock? Cash the checks.

I will however get real mad at guys for keeping the same band name and actively retreating from money by turning into a really, really shitty and unoriginal re-run of Camel or Goblin or some other terrible never-made-it 1970s prog rock band


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2022)

sakeido said:


> I will never fault any musician anywhere for taking the money. Cut your hair and sell out? Fuck yeah man get paid. Ditch the brutal vocals and switch to cleans? Get that bag! Start playing heavy rockabilly? Hell yeah it gets the kids pumped. Put on a pope mask and write dark pop rock? Cash the checks.
> 
> I will however get real mad at guys for keeping the same band name and actively retreating from money by turning into a really, really shitty and unoriginal re-run of Camel or Goblin or some other terrible never-made-it 1970s prog rock band


Is Camel that band with Carmine Appice? 

Also, I'd said Goblin made it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is Camel that band with Carmine Appice?


You're prob thinking of Cactus.


----------



## gunch (Jul 21, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> After the Burial should have called it quits after Justin died. They haven't made anything good in ages.
> 
> Propagandhi and Billy Talent go harder than most metal bands.
> 
> ...



Disagreed with ATB I didn't think I would like Dig Deep and Evergreen as much as I did. Exit Exist has an awesome heroic energy like Carved From Stone by Fallujah 

Agreed with Billy Talent

Agreed 

Monument fucking rips, disagreed

Hard disagree 

No preference

Agreed


----------



## gunch (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> American Football
> Don Caballero
> Invalids (more math rock/Midwest)
> Algernon Cadwallader (amazing)
> ...


Here's my own hot Midwest Emo take: Never cared much for Algernon Cadwallader 
You also forgot Empire Empire and This Town Needs Guns


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

gunch said:


> Here's my own hot Midwest Emo take: Never cared much for Algernon Cadwallader
> You also forgot Empire Empire and This Town Needs Guns


I absolutely adore AC lol I can understand how people would find his voice annoying. 

TTNG is amazing too, haven't given Empire Empire much of a chance yet, though. Foxing, Sorority Noise, Into It. over it, they're/their/ there?


----------



## CapinCripes (Jul 21, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Dehumanizer is the best Black Sabbath album.


I thought I was the only one who liked it. . I occasionally blast TV crimes. Fucking heavy.


----------



## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 22, 2022)

This thread introduced me to Archspire and they're just 2020s Born of Osiris. Can't do it.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You're prob thinking of Cactus.


Ah, yep! Did they release a song that was a response to Ten Years After's I'm Going Home I believe it was? Or maybe it was the other way around...?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 22, 2022)

Become the Hunter is a fucking GREAT album and the fact that people are only now catching on to Eddie's vocals with Thinking in Tongues has me clueless when he's always been a monster and Suicide Silence never stopped sounding as good as they did on the first 3 records.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 22, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> This thread introduced me to Archspire and they're just 2020s Born of Osiris. Can't do it.


This makes me think you've not listened to either band.


----------



## Jahnboy9000 (Jul 22, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> This makes me think you've not listened to either band.


That's fair. I can't stand either of them long enough to see the differences but that was my knee-jerk hot take.


----------



## Dr. Caligari (Jul 22, 2022)

I tried listening to Archspire and also couldn't do it. It was like an assault of trebly compressed "stuff" being shoved at me. It was just unpleasant sadly.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 22, 2022)

I wanna add on to the earlier Black Sabbath hot takes


Tony Martin era Sabbath is best Sabbath. And Forbidden can't be Black Sabbath's worst album when Never Say Die exists.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 22, 2022)

I still stand by my claim that Dio era Sabbath is the best Sabbath.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Forbidden can't be Black Sabbath's worst album when Born Again exists.


Fixed it.


----------



## MFB (Jul 22, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Fixed it.



Aw man, I have such a soft spot for "Trashed" though


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 22, 2022)

MFB said:


> Aw man, I have such a soft spot for "Trashed" though


That album does not work on any level. Not even as a "so bad it's good" sort of thing.


----------



## gunch (Jul 22, 2022)

Contortionist sucked after Intrinsic. I cannot stand the 2nd vocalist


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 22, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Fixed it.


I'd argue that Never Say Die is worse. It's Sabbath trying to go AOR/pop rock when that isn't the band's strong suit AT ALL.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'd argue that Never Say Die is worse. It's Sabbath trying to go AOR/pop rock when that isn't the band's strong suit AT ALL.


No. They (well, Iommi) were very influenced by Queen (Brian May). I actually quite enjoy Tech Ex and NSD.


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 23, 2022)

I'd say that Ian Gillan era Sabbath is best but that is only because I'm a bigger Purple fan than Sabbath. If you are bigger Sabbath fan than I can see why what I think is upsetting...

Speaking of upsetting. I finally listened to Archspire because it had been mentioned so many times in this thread and I finally realized what happens to music if a band only asks CAN they do a thing and never stops and asks SHOULD they do a thing


----------



## gunch (Jul 23, 2022)

@CanserDYI 

Dylan from TMP is my new guitar dad now


----------



## michael_bolton (Jul 23, 2022)

MFB said:


> Lolno.
> 
> Archspire is like someone unironically listened to those "every ______ song at once" video and thought, "yeah, that should be a band!" If every member is playing their instrument at 10, then there's no dynamics, it's a wall of sound; and you fucks keep complaining about albums being walls of sound until they came along and suddenly it's cool.



Its tech death so the sound "density" in terms of "notes shredded per second" is to be expected. There's quite a bit of dynamics and nuance in them tunes ranging from obvious tempo changes and straight acoustic riffs to going back and forth between caveman riff parts offsetting them with intricate neo-classical shred - which this shred right there is the best I've heard since Necrophagist. 
My fav tune of theirs - Involuntary Doppelganger - has all of that going on and it's one of the more accessible tunes of theirs if you're looking for some easy tech death listening.
To each it's own though.


----------



## Protestheriphery (Jul 24, 2022)

As a fan, and with great fondness for them, I sense that:

When Veil of Maya swapped singers, they made a solid decision to basically be Periphery’s younger sibling. 
Also: Marc should just put down the guitar and produce EDM, If he’s not already doing so. it’s blatantly obvious he’s expending his artistic gifts on the wrong instrument. With every album, they become increasingly electronic and glitchy. In that aspect, I just don’t know how to feel about it.


----------



## Antiproduct (Jul 24, 2022)

Pantera is hugely overrated and most modern bands produce better music/have better musicians, even Ghost.


----------



## works0fheart (Jul 24, 2022)

Big one here, sue me:
Megadeth wouldn't have lasted as long or would have been as popular without Dave's cohorts. He's a good guitarist, but on his own, his music would have been pretty niche. Without Marty we wouldn't have had Rust in Peace, Countdown, or Cryptic. Without Chris Poland we may not have had Peace Sells in what we know it as now. Without Jeff Young we may not have had some of the sick hooks he had on So Far, So Good, So What? 

Not that Dave wasn't a great guitar player, but there isn't much in his playing that really makes me say anything other than "yep, that's fast".


----------



## tian (Jul 24, 2022)

Djent peaked with Fellsilent's 'The Hidden Words'.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 24, 2022)

Animals as Leaders is just Tigran Hamasyan for guitar.

Djenty tone does not equal djent. There are so many shitty metalcore bands that have co-opted that specific tone in the last 10+ years.

Mooer makes shitty preamps that sound nothing like the actual amps.

You don't need handwound boutique pickups from BKP or whatever brand unless you absolutely have to have that specific voicing of that specific pickup.

Anyone chasing extreme clarity under high gain should just play low output humbuckers, p90s or single coils. Especially ERG guys.

High output pickups are fucking stupid in this day and age. Most high gain amps have fuckloads of gain, so you don't need to slam the front end of your amp with high output pickups.

Not every amp needs to be boosted, or should be boosted.

Blackouts gen 1 are still the worst pickups SD has ever made.

The more strings you have, the less bass you need from your amp or from your pickups.

It's not a pickup comparison if you use different guitars (even if they're the same model with the same specs).

A good engineer can make anything sound good in a mix, so those comparisons are borderline useless imo. I want to see what the average dipshit in their bedroom makes gear sound like. If even they can make it sound half decent then it must be good.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 24, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Animals as Leaders is just Tigran Hamasyan for guitar.
> 
> Djenty tone does not equal djent. There are so many shitty metalcore bands that have co-opted that specific tone in the last 10+ years.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the blackouts. Those were the most meh pickups I’ve ever used. AHB-3’s were marginally better. And HUGE agreed on the last part. I love demos that are primarily not in a mix. It is very exposing to what the gear actually sounds like and has no magic to “make it fit”. I don’t play with a drummer often so I don’t want high end that can be “covered up by cymbals” or whatever the fuck. I like to hear the tones when I play and that’s half of why I play at all.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> Lolno.
> 
> Archspire is like someone unironically listened to those "every ______ song at once" video and thought, "yeah, that should be a band!" If every member is playing their instrument at 10, then there's no dynamics, it's a wall of sound; and you fucks keep complaining about albums being walls of sound until they came along and suddenly it's cool.


For a tech death band Archspire is quite dynamic. But if you went into tech death looking for amazing dynamic performances and not masturbatory playing that's a you problem.


----------



## MFB (Jul 25, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> For a tech death band Archspire is quite dynamic. But if you went into tech death looking for amazing dynamic performances and not masturbatory playing that's a you problem.



Tech death bands with dynamics and not masturbatory playing:

Gorod
Beyond Creation
First Fragment
Obscura
Aklaloid
The Faceless

The list goes on and on, and none of them seem to have the same aural fatigue to me as Archspire. They have the chops _to_ play masturbatory stuff if they wanted to but it's not like they're out here trying to be Rings of Saturn/Berried Alive where shit was playing slower and sped up etc...


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 25, 2022)

@MFB Beyond Creation is the best live tech death I have ever seen. Obscura is a close second but those Montreal boys fucking _riiiiiipped_.

Oh! and Inferi. Unreal live performance. Coincidentally I saw them with Archspire headlining and IMO they were in a completely different league. Didn't help that Archspire was having gear issues though.


----------



## MFB (Jul 25, 2022)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> @MFB Beyond Creation is the best live tech death I have ever seen. Obscura is a close second but those Montreal boys fucking _riiiiiipped_.
> 
> Oh! and Inferi. Unreal live performance. Coincidentally I saw them with Archspire headlining and IMO they were in a completely different league. Didn't help that Archspire was having gear issues though.



The "worst" best show I ever went to was Obscura headlining after _Diluvium_ came out, and Beyond Creation supporting them (I don't know if Algorythm had dropped yet). I love B.C. more than Obscura, no question, and was going for them but to see material from _Akroasis/Cosmogensis_ live was worth it.

The show started at 6PM, with a local band doing a set, then one of the main tour openers performed their set. After them Inferni played - yes, Inferni was also on a bill with Obscura/BC - and following them was Archspire. Then BC went on, and Obscura didn't even take the stage until midnight, when they said Steffan wasn't with them due to passport issues coming down from Canada, so they rotated vocalists from other bands. Left the venue at 1AM, got home at 2AM and had work the next morning still.


----------



## works0fheart (Jul 25, 2022)

You guys don't like Archspire? Burning hot takes indeed I guess.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 25, 2022)

Fear, Emptiness, Despair actually fucking rules and is actually probably my favorite Napalm Death album.


----------



## gunch (Jul 25, 2022)

Protestheriphery said:


> As a fan, and with great fondness for them, I sense that:
> 
> When Veil of Maya swapped singers, they made a solid decision to basically be Periphery’s younger sibling.
> Also: Marc should just put down the guitar and produce EDM, If he’s not already doing so. it’s blatantly obvious he’s expending his artistic gifts on the wrong instrument. With every album, they become increasingly electronic and glitchy. In that aspect, I just don’t know how to feel about it.



I really liked Matriarch. False Idols came out and I hated it but I listened to it the other day and it's not as bad. Slightly. I don't think the transition to a sometimes-clean vocalist ruined their sound because Matriarch has some awesome songs, but I do think that Sumeriancore bands that are still around are at a loss for what do to and how to sound.


----------



## Thesius (Jul 25, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Djenty tone does not equal djent. There are so many shitty metalcore bands that have co-opted that specific tone in the last 10+ years.


Isn't this just polar opposite of what people have died on the hill for over a decade now? Djent just being a tone, and not a genre lmao


----------



## nickgray (Jul 25, 2022)

Schrodinger's Djent


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> Tech death bands with dynamics and not masturbatory playing:
> 
> Gorod
> Beyond Creation
> ...


I would argue heavily that The Faceless has plenty of masturbatory playing ESPECIALLY on planetary duality. Same with Gorod. 

Beyond Creation are also one of my favorite live acts I’ve seen and definitely in my top 5 tech death bands.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> First Fragment



Really? I liked the last album, but it's masturbation central if you ask me.



MFB said:


> Obscura



I also like Obscura, but holy shit, they've basically written the same song 50 million times. You see, this is why Archspire is so cool - their last two albums are like 30 minutes long, but they're packed to the brim, there's so much musical material to unpack, every song is its own thing.



MFB said:


> Beyond Creation



At least we can agree here, Beyond Creation is awesome


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 25, 2022)

I like archspire


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 25, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Isn't this just polar opposite of what people have died on the hill for over a decade now? Djent just being a tone, and not a genre lmao


That was always the original argument. Djent was just onomatopeia for a specific guitar sound/tone, which got coopted by a glut of unoriginal bands trying to put a new gloss coat over tired ass metalcore or bad Meshuggah clones *cough* Vildhjarta *cough*. By 201/2012 it was basically a catchall for anything with that tone and ambient bits/shitty space or physics based lyrics/bands with names that were just plural nouns ime. 

My point was that the tone has spread like chlamydia to bands that have nothing in common with the bands that popularized that specific tone.


----------



## KailM (Jul 25, 2022)

1. Metalcore sucks, and never remotely sounded like the bands they tried to copy (At The Gates, In Flames, etc.)

2. Tech-Death is unlistenable fretboard masturbation.

3. So is Djent, only the tone sucks even worse.

4. Slayer DOES fucking kick ass.

5. Metallica’s best album is AJFA, even with the production.

6. Black metal is one of the highest forms of human communication.

7. You don’t need a 7-string guitar or even tune lower than E-standard to sound brutal AF.


----------



## Masoo2 (Jul 25, 2022)

Swedish death metal (e.g. the aforementioned ATG/IF) absolutely sucks and modern takes on powerviolence/hardcore/slam are the best use of the HM2 buzzsaw sound we've ever seen.

and since some guitar takes got posted - humbuckers serve no purpose in the neck position. either have a single coil/P90/JM/etc or no neck pickup at all.


----------



## SexHaver420 (Jul 25, 2022)

Masoo2 said:


> Swedish death metal (e.g. the aforementioned ATG/IF) absolutely sucks and modern takes on powerviolence/hardcore/slam are the best use of the HM2 buzzsaw sound we've ever seen.
> 
> and since some guitar takes got posted - humbuckers serve no purpose in the neck position. either have a single coil/P90/JM/etc or no neck pickup at all.


The album Strappado by Slaughter is the best use of the HM-2 tone and it's from like 1985. It's GOOD. The drum sound on this album kicks ass.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 25, 2022)

... doom metal sucks.


----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 26, 2022)

I just this listened to two Archspire songs…This is what people who have never listened to metal think is metal.

On a separate note, Endgame is Megadeth’s best album.


----------



## Hoss632 (Jul 26, 2022)

Really only have one thing. Most scream vocalists in metal are fucking terrible and ruin a lot of potentially good bands. Very very few are really any good.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 26, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> bad Meshuggah clones *cough* Vildhjarta *cough*.


As a fan of Meshuggah, Vildhjarta's output over their existence as a band is 100% more interesting of a listen than Meshuggah's output in the same period.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 26, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> ... doom metal sucks.


Ah Doom, where the camo cargo hardcore kids go when they don't have time to be in a band that practices anymore because the kids get off school at 3:30 and the Men's Hair Salon is always booked up.


----------



## Metropolis (Jul 26, 2022)

This thread is a definition of gatekeeping.


----------



## Antiproduct (Jul 26, 2022)

Metropolis said:


> This thread is a definition of gatekeeping.


 Another hot take: Jari's decision to gatekeep severall albums behind having an own studio with sauna is a good thing for humanity


----------



## mmr007 (Jul 26, 2022)




----------



## Metropolis (Jul 26, 2022)

Antiproduct said:


> Another hot take: Jari's decision to gatekeep severall albums behind having an own studio with sauna is a good thing for humanity


My burning hot take is that only most entitled Wintersun "fans" think like that, and they should probably seek some help for their problems. It doesn't seem to be problem to anyone else but their loud and small circle jerking group in social media.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 26, 2022)

Deliberately shitty production is stupid. . It doesn't make the music more interesting, it just makes it harder to figure out what the fuck is going on. The fact that most bands that have had shitty production moved away from it as soon as they had the money or ability to do so should be telling. 

Evergrey is a criminally underrated band

Volbeat is a rockabilly band with a metallica fetish

Pantera's glam/hair metal albums are their best albums


----------



## Metropolis (Jul 26, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Wintersun isn't even good
> 
> Deliberately shitty production is stupid. . It doesn't make the music more interesting, it just makes it harder to figure out what the fuck is going on. The fact that most bands that have had shitty production moved away from it as soon as they had the money or ability to do so should be telling.
> 
> ...


They don't even have "shitty production". Time I could be more guitar oriented with the arrangements, and The Forest Seasons could have less fizzy sounding guitars/riffs with arrangement too. It's still intentional with a lot of bands with similar soundscape, sometimes it sounds very good and sometimes not.


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 26, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> ... doom metal sucks.


*Laments at 40 bpm*


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 26, 2022)

Metropolis said:


> They don't even have "shitty production". Time I could be more guitar oriented with the arrangements, and The Forest Seasons could have less fizzy sounding guitars/riffs with arrangement too. It's still intentional with a lot of bands with similar soundscape, sometimes it sounds very good and sometimes not.


I wasn't talking about wintersun when I was referencing shitty production. I was more referencing 90s black metal and death metal, where you always get some people fetishizing that awful production.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 26, 2022)

Born of Osiris was better as Rosecrance, and became an eye roll after The New Reign.


----------



## dr_game0ver (Jul 26, 2022)

Brand loyalty is dumb. just buy a F*cking guitar and play.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 26, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Animals as Leaders is just Tigran Hamasyan for guitar.
> 
> Djenty tone does not equal djent. There are so many shitty metalcore bands that have co-opted that specific tone in the last 10+ years.
> 
> ...



Hey, yo! Wrong thread. This is not the absolutely right opinions thread.


----------



## Giest (Jul 26, 2022)

People who use pedals for distortion bought the wrong amp.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2022)

Giest said:


> People who use pedals for distortion bought the wrong amp.


Fuck amps. I use pedals, a Two Notes CAB M+, and a Headrush FRFR112.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)

Giest said:


> People who use pedals for distortion bought the wrong amp.


 
Not if you bought a Metal Zone for your Marshall MG.


----------



## Carrion Rocket (Jul 26, 2022)

The metal zone goes after the noise gate.


----------



## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Evergrey is a criminally underrated band



I've tried about a dozen times, but I can only dig their first handful of albums, by _Monday Morning Apocalypse_ I tap out.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Ah Doom, where the camo cargo hardcore kids go



Y'all need to listen to some better doom metal.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 26, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Y'all need to listen to some better doom metal.


Show me.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Show me.



Well, shit, now I gotta spend time and actually do something  











https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iDf6wDlGkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOyjOc0lnOQ


----------



## mastapimp (Jul 26, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Big one here, sue me:
> Megadeth wouldn't have lasted as long or would have been as popular without Dave's cohorts. He's a good guitarist, but on his own, his music would have been pretty niche. Without Marty we wouldn't have had Rust in Peace, Countdown, or Cryptic. Without Chris Poland we may not have had Peace Sells in what we know it as now. Without Jeff Young we may not have had some of the sick hooks he had on So Far, So Good, So What?
> 
> Not that Dave wasn't a great guitar player, but there isn't much in his playing that really makes me say anything other than "yep, that's fast".


Dave writes the songs and the guitarists you mention contribute about 20 seconds of solos to each one. If you're wondering what Rust in Peace sounds like without Marty, there's demos wtih Chris Poland doing the solos, and it still basically sounds like you remember. Marty and Chris are some of my favorite guitarists, but they just spice up the songs in the solos and not much more. If you listen to either of their solo outputs, there's not much crossover with what's happening in Megadeth. Marty toned down a lot of his solos in Cryptic Writings and even more so on Risk, but I'm sure the radio singles from those albums would have still been just as successful with any other person handling lead duties.

If you're judging them from the perspective of a guitar player, you might put a lot of weight on the solo section. However, not everyone that goes to their shows plays guitar or shows up to see what blistering solo Dave of Kiko will turn out. They want to hear the hits, the hooks, the choruses of their popular songs. The guitarists you mentioned have very little to do with those factors as Dave is the mastermind.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Y'all need to listen to some better doom metal.


Fuck that. Most doom metal focuses on the molasses slow Black Sabbath riffs, when they could very well do some of Sabbath's faster Ozzy era stuff and it'd still be doom metal.


----------



## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Show me.


Probably never would have given this a chance but zoned out because doom takes 10 minutes to make any sort of point but the album has a really strong melodic backbone that carries it. That being said, haven't really enjoyed anything the band has done since...


----------



## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Show me.



From blatantly obvious to less know:

Electric Wizard
Sleep/OM
Bongripper
SUNN O))) (I'm calling them doom, but they're also drone, sue me)
Acid King
YOB
Ahab
Bell Witch
Monolord
Windhand
Conan
COUGH
Thou (maybe? they're stuff with E.R.R. is definitely doom-y)
REZN
Mammoth Weed Wizard Bastard (now just M.W.W.B.)
Black Pyramid
Telekinetic Yeti
Spaceslug
Slomatics
Weedeater
SubRosa
Conjurer
Pilgrim (or maybe I'm thinking of Potion, both good though)
Green Lung

There's a shit ton of doom out there right now


----------



## michael_bolton (Jul 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Show me.



From the new-wish doom/psych I'm digging dem boyz:


----------



## GunpointMetal (Jul 26, 2022)

tian said:


> Probably never would have given this a chance but zoned out because doom takes 10 minutes to make any sort of point but the album has a really strong melodic backbone that carries it. That being said, haven't really enjoyed anything the band has done since...



Bereft are the homies, and Alex will be sorely missed by this community for a long time to come, but these guys are literally the definition of "hardcore kids that need to slow down". As is the bottom half of @MFB's list. That new Conjurer is a dope record.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Dave writes the songs and the guitarists you mention contribute about 20 seconds of solos to each one. If you're wondering what Rust in Peace sounds like without Marty, there's demos wtih Chris Poland doing the solos, and it still basically sounds like you remember. Marty and Chris are some of my favorite guitarists, but they just spice up the songs in the solos and not much more. If you listen to either of their solo outputs, there's not much crossover with what's happening in Megadeth. Marty toned down a lot of his solos in Cryptic Writings and even more so on Risk, but I'm sure the radio singles from those albums would have still been just as successful with any other person handling lead duties.
> 
> If you're judging them from the perspective of a guitar player, you might put a lot of weight on the solo section. However, not everyone that goes to their shows plays guitar or shows up to see what blistering solo Dave of Kiko will turn out. They want to hear the hits, the hooks, the choruses of their popular songs. The guitarists you mentioned have very little to do with those factors as Dave is the mastermind.



IDK. I love Megadeth. But the only people I knew who gave two shits about Megadeth ever, growing up, were people who were as much into the guitar solos and pounding drums as they were into the riffs. Before it was cool to hate Dream Theater for their vocals, people ragged on Mustaine for his vocals a lot. I think Mustaine deserves a lot of credit for the riffs and the overall look and style of Megadeth, but you cannot convince me that Megadeth would have ever been more than a blip on anyone's radar if Mustaine had _not_ teamed up with some of the greatest sidemen of all time. Then again, teaming up with the greatest sidemen is a skill in and of itself.



everyone said:


> Doom metal



I respect it for what it is, but what it is, I have to be in a particular sort of mood to enjoy it. A lot of the links people posted here, to a non-doom-fanatic like me, just sound like Black Sabbath. And there's nothing wrong with Black Sabbath (I like Black Sabbath), but I guess I just feel like that the genre, in general, doesn't tread much new ground. I suppose the same could be said about any genre by anyone who isn't a deep fan and takes a little sampling, but I feel like that particular assessment is closer to the general truth for Doom Metal than it is for other subgenres. That might be partly because there just are so many bands doing that style and not getting super popular by doing it, and so few who do get super popular.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

Third Eye Blind's s/t has better, heavier guitar tones than 98% of the metal that's been released since. 



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Fuck that. Most doom metal focuses on the molasses slow Black Sabbath riffs, when they could very well do some of Sabbath's faster Ozzy era stuff and it'd still be doom metal.



I agree completely. I play and love doom and most bands in the genre are third rate sabbath/sleep/EW clones. 

For faster doom riffs, check out Bongripper-Satan. 

Most doom bands end up being self parody pretty quickly if they aren't from the start. Electric Wizard has sucked for years and I'm a huge fan. These days I enjoy the bands that mix doom aesthetics with other interesting shit (Russian Circles, Old Man Gloom, Have a Nice Life etc) a lot more than guys with beards and richard spencer haircuts playing boring riffs in their Slutty Witch Weed Wizard Band.


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## RadoncROCKs (Jul 26, 2022)

“Djent” is not a genre, it’s even a stupid term as that’s a poor use of the onomatopoeia sound that it describes

For Whom the Bells is boring as all hell

I like Periphery with vocals

Slayer sounds like shit – I didn’t realize before reading this thread that’s not even a hot take at all

Guitar pickups are overrated in the modern age – so many different ways to get tone


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> A lot of the links people posted here, to a non-doom-fanatic like me, just sound like Black Sabbath


[email protected] single djent, modern prog, deathcore, and hair/glam/arena rock vid that gets posted in this forum

literally sounds like the same 4-5 bands to me


that said I don't feel a lot of the bands posted are very representative of the true breadth of expression to be found in the genre. also though, what I enjoy about doom is more than just aesthetics, the bands I like are delivering an emotional experience that is fairly incomparable in the music world. that isn't to say it's better or worse than anything else but there is sure as fuck nobody else who makes me feel the way I do when I blast HANL-Earthmover or Cough-Wounding Hours


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## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I respect it for what it is, but what it is, I have to be in a particular sort of mood to enjoy it. A lot of the links people posted here, to a non-doom-fanatic like me, just sound like Black Sabbath. And there's nothing wrong with Black Sabbath (I like Black Sabbath), but I guess I just feel like that the genre, in general, doesn't tread much new ground. I suppose the same could be said about any genre by anyone who isn't a deep fan and takes a little sampling, but I feel like that particular assessment is closer to the general truth for Doom Metal than it is for other subgenres. That might be partly because there just are so many bands doing that style and not getting super popular by doing it, and so few who do get super popular.





wheresthefbomb said:


> I agree completely. I play and love doom and most bands in the genre are third rate sabbath/sleep/EW clones.
> 
> For faster doom riffs, check out Bongripper-Satan.
> 
> Most doom bands end up being self parody pretty quickly if they aren't from the start. Electric Wizard has sucked for years and I'm a huge fan. These days I enjoy the bands that mix doom aesthetics with other interesting shit (Russian Circles, Old Man Gloom, Have a Nice Life etc) a lot more than guys with beards and richard spencer haircuts playing boring riffs in their Slutty Witch Weed Wizard Band.



Seconding, as a dude who tends to making droning/doom riffs, it's real easy for doom to become a parody of itself, which is why I don't take it too seriously; like, it's very much just "tune in to tune out" music. There's some bands that have definitely done new stuff with it, or specifically albums that are unlike what you'd traditionally hear with doom (like Sunn O))) & Boris's "Altar" or E.R.R/Thou's album) but it's becoming more uncommon vs. slowed down pentatonic riffs.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

MFB said:


> Seconding, as a dude who tends to making droning/doom riffs, it's real easy for doom to become a parody of itself, which is why I don't take it too seriously; like, it's very much just "tune in to tune out" music. There's some bands that have definitely done new stuff with it, or specifically albums that are unlike what you'd traditionally hear with doom (like Sunn O))) & Boris's "Altar" or E.R.R/Thou's album) but it's becoming more uncommon vs. slowed down pentatonic riffs.



I know this is a bit of a cliche to say but I saw SUNN live and their opener was better than them but holy fucking shit they were still incredible. I'm a huge fan, own LPs etc, but nothing comes close to the live experience. 

I have a massive amount of respect for what they've done/are doing with that project, both musically and in terms of their artistic integrity and the way they're interacting with/appropriating the brand. I wrote an entire linguistics paper on the subject, it's fascinating from a branding perspective, from a linguistic perspective, and then also from an esoteric/occult perspective.


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

RadoncROCKs said:


> Guitar pickups are overrated in the modern age – so many different ways to get tone


How do you get tone without pickups? Do you play acoustic? 



wheresthefbomb said:


> [email protected] single djent, modern prog, deathcore, and hair/glam/arena rock vid that gets posted in this forum
> 
> literally sounds like the same 4-5 bands to me
> 
> ...


Well, sounding boring =/= sounding similar. A lot of modern prog bands make songs that sound similar, but I don't see how different bands within the genre sound the same. Deathcore has the breakdowns that are all either the same or parody/satire of the breakdown in general ("heh heh, wouldn't it be funny if the song was 290 bpm, but the breakdown was literally just whole notes on the china cymbal at 4 bpm? heh heh"), but the other parts of the songs are usually quite varied. Djent is maybe the worst offender, at least the huge portion of songs out there that are tabbed out by pouring spaghetti o's on the lowest string. But hair/glam? That's probably some of the richest stuff for different riffs, in general. Sure there are a lot of copycats out there now that the genre's officially been dead for three decades, but nobody out there was ever saying that Poison or Motley Crue were just ripping off Van Halen songs for their entire careers. And before anyone thinks I'm just hating on doom metal, I really do genuinely like a few bands in the genre, but man-oh-man, are there a lot of them on bandcamp that I come across that I just don't get. I certainly don't feel like I'm ever inundated with deathcore bands or hairmetal bands when I browse bandcamp or soundcloud.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> How do you get tone without pickups? Do you play acoustic?
> 
> 
> Well, sounding boring =/= sounding similar. A lot of modern prog bands make songs that sound similar, but I don't see how different bands within the genre sound the same. Deathcore has the breakdowns that are all either the same or parody/satire of the breakdown in general ("heh heh, wouldn't it be funny if the song was 290 bpm, but the breakdown was literally just whole notes on the china cymbal at 4 bpm? heh heh"), but the other parts of the songs are usually quite varied. Djent is maybe the worst offender, at least the huge portion of songs out there that are tabbed out by pouring spaghetti o's on the lowest string. But hair/glam? That's probably some of the richest stuff for different riffs, in general. Sure there are a lot of copycats out there now that the genre's officially been dead for three decades, but nobody out there was ever saying that Poison or Motley Crue were just ripping off Van Halen songs for their entire careers. And before anyone thinks I'm just hating on doom metal, I really do genuinely like a few bands in the genre, but man-oh-man, are there a lot of them on bandcamp that I come across that I just don't get. I certainly don't feel like I'm ever inundated with deathcore bands or hairmetal bands when I browse bandcamp or soundcloud.



Ultimately I don't think we will be able to assemble any kind of useful statistical analysis, but I could certainly make anecdotal arguments that are at least in my eyes equivalent to the ones you've made here. 

I openly admit that my reaction to this kind of music largely revolves around the fact that I don't enjoy it. I am very unlikely to listen through an entire song that makes me roll my eyes within the first five seconds, and thus have very little concept of what wonders might hide within. 

for the record, most "doom" bands make me roll my eyes before I even get to the whole "listening to five seconds" bit. If there's anything about weed or wizards or references to any other big doom bands in the title, I am absolutely fucking not listening to it.


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## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> How do you get tone without pickups? Do you play acoustic?


As I've heard, tone comes from the brand of cigarettes you use to age your guitar.


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## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I know this is a bit of a cliche to say but I saw SUNN live and their opener was better than them but holy fucking shit they were still incredible. I'm a huge fan, own LPs etc, but nothing comes close to the live experience.
> 
> I have a massive amount of respect for what they've done/are doing with that project, both musically and in terms of their artistic integrity and the way they're interacting with/appropriating the brand. I wrote an entire linguistics paper on the subject, it's fascinating from a branding perspective, from a linguistic perspective, and then also from an esoteric/occult perspective.



That's not far off from when I saw Electric Wizard live back in ...2019? Fuck, feels like forever ago already. They weren't even _bad_ but I saw it more as a legacy act for my 19-year old self who got into them and smoked - at the time - too much pot listening to _Dopethrone_ and _Dopesmoker_ (boy, what a wide range of topics guys), and so I could say, "Yeah, I've seen Sleep ON 4/20 and Electric Wizard now." SUNN O))) is definitely one that's still on my list, although they seem to have become more elusive as time goes on and with one of them living in France it's not making things more convenient.


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

tian said:


> As I've heard, tone comes from the brand of cigarettes you use to age your guitar.


Or is it all in the truss rod cover?


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## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Or is it all in the truss rod cover?


Guitar forums were a mistake.


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## mastapimp (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> IDK. I love Megadeth. But the only people I knew who gave two shits about Megadeth ever, growing up, were people who were as much into the guitar solos and pounding drums as they were into the riffs. Before it was cool to hate Dream Theater for their vocals, people ragged on Mustaine for his vocals a lot. I think Mustaine deserves a lot of credit for the riffs and the overall look and style of Megadeth, but you cannot convince me that Megadeth would have ever been more than a blip on anyone's radar if Mustaine had _not_ teamed up with some of the greatest sidemen of all time. Then again, teaming up with the greatest sidemen is a skill in and of itself.


I think the point I was trying to make was that in many ways, the lead guitarists are interchangeable. I agree that a lot of people like the dual guitars, pounding drums, and might get rubbed the wrong way with Dave's vocals, but the charting/popular Megadeth material isn't just the "Dave plays fast" riffs...it's "Trust", "Symphony of Destruction", "Sweating Bullets" that got the most radio and TV exposure. When you hear Megadeth in movie soundtracks or at sporting events, they never cut to the solo, it's always some iconic riff or chorus.


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## gabito (Jul 26, 2022)

Fuck tube amps.


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## Zer01 (Jul 26, 2022)

I don’t believe anyone who says they enjoy black metal.

Most bands would kill to have Nickelback’s guitar tone.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

gabito said:


> Fuck tube amps.



it seems to be a quality that people tend to dislike about them, but I am really into the "stiffness" of cranked solid-state amps these days. The cleans especially are just, wow. There's a certain grind/grate in the power section that tubes just don't have. Absolutely in love with the sounds coming from my L7 right now. Makes me really miss my Beta Lead as well.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 26, 2022)

Zer01 said:


> I don’t believe anyone who says they enjoy black metal.
> 
> Most bands would kill to have Nickelback’s guitar tone.



You're right, I'm listening to Emperor and Wolves in the Throne Room by myself on the way to work to score cred with myself.


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## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> You're right, I'm listening to Emperor and Wolves in the Throne Room by myself on the way to work to score cred with myself.


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

Off topic, but, @tian, is that the cover of Griffith's Quantum Mechanics book in your avatar?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2022)

The pickups are the first thing to amplify the voicing and have less of an effect than say a speaker does for the overall voicing.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2022)

I enjoy black metal, but at the end of the day, it is for edgy people who think KISS isn't heavy or fast enough, Gwar isn't serious enough, and doesn't like rap, so ICP/Twiztid doesn't appeal to them.

I say this as someone who likes blackc metal, but still.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 26, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Volbeat is a rockabilly band with a metallica fetish
> s


They probably wouldn't disagree.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 26, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The pickups are the first thing to amplify the voicing and have less of an effect than say a speaker does for the overall voicing.


Kinda in a similar vein
Pickup + pickup PLACEMENT >>>> tonewood


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## mastapimp (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Off topic, but, @tian, is that the cover of Griffith's Quantum Mechanics book in your avatar?


He's been subtly trolling the OP in the Rusti thread with his avatars for the past week.


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

Sean the Butcher, I think, on Liquid Metal announced Unto Others' "Summer Lightning" as the best metal song this summer. IDK. I guess it's not bad, but I don't see how it's any of those words except "song."


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> He's been subtly trolling the OP in the Rusti thread with his avatars for the past week.


Maybe it's Schrödinger's Avatar? Or Heisenberg's Avatar - I can only observe it's position or it's momentum, but not both?


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> And before anyone thinks I'm just hating on doom metal, I really do genuinely like a few bands in the genre, but man-oh-man, are there a lot of them on bandcamp that I come across that I just don't get. I certainly don't feel like I'm ever inundated with deathcore bands or hairmetal bands when I browse bandcamp or soundcloud.


Goes back to my "camo cargo shorts hardcore kids with kids and a career" comment. Locally/regionally, doom is what grindcore was in the early 2000's. Easy to play music for people who don't have time to be in a band but still need to be in a band because its their personality. Obviously, there is always exceptions and legacy acts, but I noticed an absurd amount of "Blackened Doom" bands popping up around 2018 made up of people who were in metalcore/hardcore bands in 2009.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 26, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> You're right, I'm listening to Emperor and Wolves in the Throne Room by myself on the way to work to score cred with myself.


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## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Off topic, but, @tian, is that the cover of Griffith's Quantum Mechanics book in your avatar?





mastapimp said:


> He's been subtly trolling the OP in the Rusti thread with his avatars for the past week.


All I'm saying is that if a guitar is both the worst thing possible but also worth spending €10k for two of them, it's exhibiting some impressive quantum phenomena. We're observing some impressive science over there.

"Is this serious or a shitpost? Yes."

And also, after the thread started getting into the refraction of light, I was going to escalate my avatar into a specific red-covered text but Griffiths-references were enough to trigger some E&M trauma so I decided to change domains.


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## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

Jackson? Find the potential inside of a point electron. 

I was in school long enough ago that the covers are all different now. I still have my books, though. Crazy that they've mostly stayed the same for nearly half a century now, though.

I've run into more physicists here than I have at my job...and my job is in sensor development!

Anyway, a hot metal take that got me into loads of trouble before: Meshuggah was more interesting before they got the eight strings.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 26, 2022)

Giest said:


> People who use pedals for distortion bought the wrong amp.



The problem is, amps are fucking loud. I have a Peavey Deuce that sounds amazing with the post gain on 9, but without a loadbox, it rattles the windows on like 1.

I mean, hell, here's a video that shows how good you can hear a dimed Plexi a half a mile away.


And like a true gear whore, I will jump through all kinds of hoops to not use a modeler because I like _stuff_.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 26, 2022)

That seems like a good way to get a party started.


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## Chanson (Jul 26, 2022)

John Bush was Anthrax's best singer.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 27, 2022)

Well, turns out that making seething insubstantial opinions about something you hate to a bunch of randos on the internet for self validation... is kinda fun?  Here's another. 

Steve Vai is one of my favorite guitarists of all time. I love everything he does and any kind of contrarian opinion against him will not change my opinion. That said: Alien Love Secrets is his most overrated album. I can see why guitarists love that over his more eccentric work, namely because guitarists (especially solo instrumentalists) are self indulgent and prefer a power trio arrangement where the rhythm section just grooves and guitar gets free reign to wail away. Well... that's nice every now and then too  but that's practically every other guitar instrumental album ever. What sets Vai apart is his Zappa influenced weird gonzo experimental / compositional work. If anything, people who love Vai should be taking more of his composer side to heart than just the guitarist side. But I suppose it is much easer to tell your rhythm section to sit on a groove while you furiously wank away and somehow call that a song. 
I'll take more of this kind of Vai thanks.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 27, 2022)

re: annoying glut of besludgened blackened deathdoom, I have profiles like this requesting me on a regular basis. Sometimes I'll check the music but I didn't make it past the bio on this one and that's usually the case. I'll let them follow me though 

I have made a few cool connections talking to bands/musicians that randomly follow me but that's the exception by far. 

PS sorry to whichever one of you dorks this belongs to


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 27, 2022)

All they're missing is a weed reference and they'd have the full bingo card.


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## Demiurge (Jul 27, 2022)

I couldn't hear The Darkness' influence on that band at all.


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## dr_game0ver (Jul 27, 2022)

So... A Skyrim inspired band?


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

What the fuck is with the connection doom metal and weed?

Like, why would doom metal bands sing about that? If you told me somebody sings about smoking weed then I'd assume they were doing some kind of rap/hiphop or something... but... DOOM... METAL? Wtf?

I mean I always thought of doom metal as like, My Dying Bride and stuff like that. If I put on Turn Loose the Swans and all of a sudden they went "yooo we're smoking doooooope maaan" I'd be like what the fuck are you doing...??? That's so fucking out of place?


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## KailM (Jul 27, 2022)

Zer01 said:


> I don’t believe anyone who says they enjoy black metal.



It’s my favorite music to listen to and create.

If you haven’t really dove into it, I can see why people are instantly turned off. The early second wave certainly sounded like shit and had terrible production. Corpsepaint, spikes, bullet belts, church-burning, murder, and mooooar Satan — yes, that was all a part of it back then. A lot of those guys were immature teenagers when that started — so I give a lot of it a pass. Often, the terrible production was a result of a lack of decent gear and funds for legit recording. Most of the original second-wave bands moved onto much better production when they could afford it.

Nowadays, there are tons of bands that are not all about that “scene” and are just making really cool music with great production. If you still don’t like it — that’s fair, but they aren’t necessarily following the absurd theatrics and image.


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## Chanson (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> What the fuck is with the connection doom metal and weed?
> 
> Like, why would doom metal bands sing about that? If you told me somebody sings about smoking weed then I'd assume they were doing some kind of rap/hiphop or something... but... DOOM... METAL? Wtf?
> 
> I mean I always thought of doom metal as like, My Dying Bride and stuff like that. If I put on Turn Loose the Swans and all of a sudden they went "yooo we're smoking doooooope maaan" I'd be like what the fuck are you doing...??? That's so fucking out of place?



Sweet Leaf. And a lot of other Sabbath songs referencing drugs.


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## MFB (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> What the fuck is with the connection doom metal and weed?
> 
> Like, why would doom metal bands sing about that? If you told me somebody sings about smoking weed then I'd assume they were doing some kind of rap/hiphop or something... but... DOOM... METAL? Wtf?
> 
> I mean I always thought of doom metal as like, My Dying Bride and stuff like that. If I put on Turn Loose the Swans and all of a sudden they went "yooo we're smoking doooooope maaan" I'd be like what the fuck are you doing...??? That's so fucking out of place?





Chanson said:


> Sweet Leaf. And a lot of other Sabbath songs referencing drugs.



That and part of it is this:


When you're high and find a really good riff, you play it a lot and you sing about what you know. Nothing overly deep or profound about it.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> What the fuck is with the connection doom metal and weed?



It's on the stoner doom side of the doom family. It's far more rock influenced than metal influenced.



Dr. Caligari said:


> I always thought of doom metal as like, My Dying Bride and stuff like that



Yeah, that's the doom on the metal side. Death doom, gothic doom. That's my kind of doom metal as well


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## Chanson (Jul 27, 2022)

Demiurge said:


> I couldn't hear The Darkness' influence on that band at all.



I Believe in a Thing Called Lvve


----------



## The Mirror (Jul 27, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Evergrey is a criminally underrated band


Tom Englund could probably have made huge bucks with his ability to write catchy af songs and his voice that should be a textbook definition for "Bryan Adams ain't got shit on me". 

Instead he writes Power Metal / Prog songs in a band that never really took off and that is probably only making the bare minimum to live (based on how often he wanted to call it quits and just get a regular job). 

In short: Hell yes. I'm gonna drown myself in the atmospheric tidal wave that is "The Grand Collapse" right now.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

Hm it's interesting but still a bit weird to me that "doom" can be so different things. Feels like they shouldn't even share a name like that.


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## MFB (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Hm it's interesting but still a bit weird to me that "doom" can be so different things. Feels like they shouldn't even share a name like that.



If metal can tolerate people lumping djent under it, doom will survive with stoner rock being under it's umbrella


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 27, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Well, turns out that making seething insubstantial opinions about something you hate to a bunch of randos on the internet for self validation... is kinda fun?  Here's another.
> 
> Steve Vai is one of my favorite guitarists of all time. I love everything he does and any kind of contrarian opinion against him will not change my opinion. That said: Alien Love Secrets is his most overrated album. I can see why guitarists love that over his more eccentric work, namely because guitarists (especially solo instrumentalists) are self indulgent and prefer a power trio arrangement where the rhythm section just grooves and guitar gets free reign to wail away. Well... that's nice every now and then too  but that's practically every other guitar instrumental album ever. What sets Vai apart is his Zappa influenced weird gonzo experimental / compositional work. If anything, people who love Vai should be taking more of his composer side to heart than just the guitarist side. But I suppose it is much easer to tell your rhythm section to sit on a groove while you furiously wank away and somehow call that a song.
> I'll take more of this kind of Vai thanks.



love this CD. his new one is awesome


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

MFB said:


> If metal can tolerate people lumping djent under it, doom will survive with stoner rock being under it's umbrella



Can it? 

I don't think djent is really metal tbh. It's pretty different.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I don't think djent is really metal tbh. It's pretty different.



Depends. You can lump some under math rock, but something like Vildhjarta should feel pretty comfortable under the metal umbrella.

In any case, let's not get all metal-archives.com here


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## bostjan (Jul 27, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Can it?
> 
> I don't think djent is really metal tbh. It's pretty different.


I mean, djent ranges from super clean tiktok guitarists to pretty clean Animals as Leaders songs to pretty heavy sounding After the Burial songs. I guess, like anything else, it covers a gamut.


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## bostjan (Jul 27, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Depends. You can lump some under math rock, but something like Vildhjarta should feel pretty comfortable under the metal umbrella.
> 
> In any case, let's not get all metal-archives.com here


Some *ahem* some groups online seem to have such a strict definition of what is metal that basically everything is not metal. I say that knowing it sounds like hyperbole but I honestly think of it as a fair assessment.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

I don't really listen to djent but my impression is some kind of metalcore/post hardcore mixed with Meshuggah.

I guess it's true that it covers a lot of ground.

Hm, are Architects djent? I used to think I don't like djent but I do like that band.


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## bostjan (Jul 27, 2022)

Some would say Meshuggah themselves are djent, but it's controversial either way.

To my ears, Architects sound more like they are pedigreed from mathcore, like Dillinger Escape Plan, than Periphery or Meshuggah, but it's all connected anyway.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

Yeah their early albums seem very influenced by Dillinger Escape Plan but then they've changed quite a bit between albums. I suppose it depends where you look maybe.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 27, 2022)

Strobe said:


> The lack of hooks, dynamic changes, interesting melodies, rhythm/tempo changes, or even a fucking guitar solo in whole swathes of metal music just suuuuuucks. It's like listening to a vacuum cleaner.



Most deathcore bands just checked in. 



CanserDYI said:


> My hot take is Midwest emo is better than metal. Fight me about it.



Finally some hot takes. 



Crungy said:


> I find it funny I'm from the Midwest, was in an emo-esque band years ago but am not knowledgeable on Midwest emo. Got any recommendations?



Hawthorne Fucking Heights



sakeido said:


> I will never fault any musician anywhere for taking the money. Cut your hair and sell out? Fuck yeah man get paid. Ditch the brutal vocals and switch to cleans? Get that bag! Start playing heavy rockabilly? Hell yeah it gets the kids pumped. Put on a pope mask and write dark pop rock? Cash the checks.
> 
> I will however get real mad at guys for keeping the same band name and actively retreating from money by turning into a really, really shitty and unoriginal re-run of Camel or Goblin or some other terrible never-made-it 1970s prog rock band



I cannot imagine whoever you mean by your second statement. Which is a shame because Damnation is actually one of my favorite Opeth albums. 



nickgray said:


> Not if you bought a Metal Zone for your Marshall MG.



Or for your practice bass amp that you got for free.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 27, 2022)

A good melody line is 10000x better than a guitar solo.
Most guitar solos are a waste of a bridge riff.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 27, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> A good melody line is 10000x better than a guitar solo.
> Most guitar solos are a waste of a bridge riff.



guitar solos are terrible and almost never make a song better 

it's always disappointing when I find a band I like and then 2-3mins in some jerk starts wanking out a bunch of noodles over what was at one time a perfectly good song


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## Zer01 (Jul 27, 2022)

Metallica should have kept Dave just to save the world from Dave’s singing.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> guitar solos are terrible and almost never make a song better
> 
> it's always disappointing when I find a band I like and then 2-3mins in some jerk starts wanking out a bunch of noodles over what was at one time a perfectly good song


Yup, its something I tolerate in most music, but rarely does it add to a composition.


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## zerofocus (Jul 27, 2022)

Hot take: all doom bands are just knock off black sabbaths with No originality


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## zerofocus (Jul 27, 2022)

Hot take 2: metal has become too polished and safe sounding

Hot take 3: if you’re on Instagram doing a “guitar play through” with neon lights and fake plants behind your MacBook and “studio desk”……..I already know what you’re going to sound like……..


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## CanserDYI (Jul 27, 2022)

Guitar solos? The fuck out of here. Smooth, creamy Guitar leads? There we go.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 27, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Damnation is actually one of my favorite Opeth albums.


My man.


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## Genome (Jul 27, 2022)

St. Anger is exactly the album it needs to be and sounds exactly like it should. 

Bye.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

Genome said:


> and sounds exactly like it should


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## sakeido (Jul 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> guitar solos are terrible and almost never make a song better
> 
> it's always disappointing when I find a band I like and then 2-3mins in some jerk starts wanking out a bunch of noodles over what was at one time a perfectly good song


Caligula's Horse used to be just brutal for this


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

What if guitar solos are melodic and nice then?

Still bad? I mean I don't understand how a GOOD guitar solo can be bad.


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## ikarus (Jul 27, 2022)

KailM said:


> Nowadays, there are tons of bands that are not all about that “scene” and are just making really cool music with great production. If you still don’t like it — that’s fair, but they aren’t necessarily following the absurd theatrics and image.



Which bands would you recommend?


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## works0fheart (Jul 27, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The pickups are the first thing to amplify the voicing and have less of an effect than say a speaker does for the overall voicing.



This is true as fuck and it gets re-proven pretty frequently. I've seen people throw pickups onto literal 2x4's and they sound very convincing. 

Tone wood in general is a sham, but there's always going to be your pretentious crowd of players who swear by it, even though companies are out there right now making killer sounding guitars out of aircraft grade plastics.


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## Giest (Jul 27, 2022)

Fun fact, the primary thing that makes plastics aircraft grade is their flammability and off-gas toxicity. In nonstructural components and irrespective of fuel systems, which is 99% of their uses in aeronautics, it's the only factor which qualifies them for use. Same with military grade plastics. So congrats, your guitar won't catch on fire and poison you mid flight.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 27, 2022)

Giest said:


> So congrats, your guitar won't catch on fire and poison you mid flight.


But I specifically want that.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 27, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> This is true as fuck and it gets re-proven pretty frequently.* I've seen people throw pickups onto literal 2x4's and they sound very convincing.*
> 
> Tone wood in general is a sham, but there's always going to be your pretentious crowd of players who swear by it, even though companies are out there right now making killer sounding guitars out of aircraft grade plastics.



I mean, that's what Les Paul did to make the first solid body guitar.

I still think that how dense or light whatever the guitars made of affects how the strings vibrate, but not in a mahogany sounds like this and alder sounds like this kinda way.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 27, 2022)

Mahogany and alder do have certain sounds to them though. Not that every piece of mahogany sounds the same or every piece of alder sounds the same, but overall different species of wood do give electric guitars a different sound.


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## KailM (Jul 27, 2022)

ikarus said:


> Which bands would you recommend?


This band’s entire catalog, but here’s one of the most recent:


And this:


And this:


And…


Tip of the iceberg really.


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## michael_bolton (Jul 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> guitar solos are terrible and almost never make a song better
> 
> it's always disappointing when I find a band I like and then 2-3mins in some jerk starts wanking out a bunch of noodles over what was at one time a perfectly good song



Depends on the style/genre imo. Stoner doom, drone, folk metal, hardcore with no solos or some simple melodic lines - no complaints. OSDM or thrash - not so much. Tons of OSDM bands popping up lately with some decent riffage but if the solos are weak/non existent - meh, gonna need to see some technical proficiency sir.


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## nickgray (Jul 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> it's always disappointing when I find a band I like and then 2-3mins in some jerk starts wanking out a bunch of noodles over what was at one time a perfectly good song



Have you listened to Slayer?


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## owlexifry (Jul 27, 2022)

MFB said:


> Green Lung



holy shit this band is underrated.
so much more than just another stoner/doom band.
when i listened to 'black harvest' i was pleasantly surprised to hear a whole range of melodic harmonized power metal leads, and i guess what can be described as 70s prog-spec wall of sound type thing - from a stoner/doom band 

highly recommend this one


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## MFB (Jul 28, 2022)

Potentially hot take: no one besides other guitarist's will notice if you alt/economy pick the opening to Master of Puppets, and especially no one besides them will care.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 28, 2022)

MFB said:


> Potentially hot take: no one besides other guitarist's will notice if you alt/economy pick the opening to Master of Puppets, and especially no one besides them will care.



If you're just playing around at home or busting out a cover with band or on your own, then yes. But as someone who played in a Metallica tribute band for 6-7 years, you're expected to downpick. I don't care if someone else choses to play the riff however they want, personally it sound better when I downpick it.


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## MFB (Jul 29, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> If you're just playing around at home or busting out a cover with band or on your own, then yes. But as someone who played in a Metallica tribute band for 6-7 years, you're expected to downpick. I don't care if someone else choses to play the riff however they want, personally it sound better when I downpick it.



My knee jerk reaction is to agree as it's a Metallica tribute/cover and for authenticity sure - play it exactly like them; that said, I still think that even if someone is seeing a Metallica cover band, only the guitar nerds are still going to be the one to pick it up so it's really dealers choice. Are you going to hear about it afterwards if you don't? Yeah, from them. Will other audience members say it was a good performance if you don't? Probably, because at the end of the day, as long as they heard "Master..." played, that's what they wanted.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 29, 2022)

MFB said:


> My knee jerk reaction is to agree as it's a Metallica tribute/cover and for authenticity sure - play it exactly like them; that said, I still think that even if someone is seeing a Metallica cover band, only the guitar nerds are still going to be the one to pick it up so it's really dealers choice. Are you going to hear about it afterwards if you don't? Yeah, from them. Will other audience members say it was a good performance if you don't? Probably, because at the end of the day, as long as they heard "Master..." played, that's what they wanted.


If it's a band casually covering a song, then yeah it's cool and you can get away with certain liberties as long as you play the song tight and well. Though even the staunchest Metallica fans (a majority being guitarists), the small nuances like downpicking Puppets or even Creeping Death (no slouch either), getting the guitar harmonies right (this is a surprisingly big deal to some audiences) or backing vocals... a lot of that adds up to the overall experience of an extremely well known song. Again, casually covering a song isn't a biggie. 

While we're on the subject of bitchpicking , another hot take:

You can justify your picking technique and not downpicking all you want, it doesn't matter at the end of the day... unless you're recording in a studio and your producer tells you that your riffs don't chug hard enough... then all the gain in the world won't save you.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2022)

kazia is by far protest the heroes best album


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## MFB (Jul 29, 2022)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> kazia is by far protest the heroes best album



Depending on the day, you're not wrong; it's tied with Scurrilous in my book, and any pick is going to make me think it's the wrong one.

That said, I have a Kezia tattoo so...


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 29, 2022)

I think down vs alt picking makes a bigger difference than a lot of people will admit. I don't think it's just an authenticity thing at all.

If you alt pick MOP then it's true that most people won't go "hey, you're alt picking and that's bad" but the sound will be different and everybody will get a different experience from the music, regardless if they know/understand what alt picking is or not.

I think if MOP had been originally alt picked by Metallica, then the song wouldn't have had the success that it's had. Downpicking and the rhythm playing of Hetfield is a big part of what made Metallica so good. With alt picking you lose that percussive drive and that makes a difference.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2022)

MFB said:


> Depending on the day, you're not wrong; it's tied with Scurrilous in my book, and any pick is going to make me think it's the wrong one.
> 
> That said, I have a Kezia tattoo so...


i can understand that. same can be said for metallica since they've been brought up... 

ride the lightning and master of puppets are tied (at least for me) for their best album and it depends on day which is better.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> ...Creeping Death (no slouch either)...


funny you should mention that, i can play mop, but still to this day can't make the main riff in creeping death sound right lol.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 29, 2022)

I thought about it a bunch and came to the conclusion that I prefer Mop to Rtl. Creeping Death is maybe my favorite Metallica song but nothing else on Rtl is as amazing as that. Good but not like the songs on Mop imo.


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## bostjan (Jul 29, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I thought about it a bunch and came to the conclusion that I prefer Mop to Rtl. Creeping Death is maybe my favorite Metallica song but nothing else on Rtl is as amazing as that. Good but not like the songs on Mop imo.


I don't think that's a particularity warm take. I 100% choose MoP to RtL. My favourite track on RtL is the title track, but I think half the tracks on MoP are even better than "Ride the Lightning." Also, the production quality on MoP is so much better.

Totally different topic, but I miss the silliness that was bands naming themselves off of their best song. Like "Iron Madien" off of _Iron Maiden _by Iron Maiden or "Black Sabbath" off of _Black Sabbath _by Black Sabbath, of the genre Black Sabbath, released in the year Black Sabbath, track length Black minutes and Sabbath seconds.


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## Demiurge (Jul 29, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Totally different topic, but I miss the silliness that was bands naming themselves off of their best song. Like "Iron Madien" off of _Iron Maiden _by Iron Maiden or "Black Sabbath" off of _Black Sabbath _by Black Sabbath, of the genre Black Sabbath, released in the year Black Sabbath, track length Black minutes and Sabbath seconds.


Maiden gets the edge here, going the extra step to include the song name in the lyrics.


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## Carrion Rocket (Jul 29, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I don't think that's a particularity warm take. I 100% choose MoP to RtL. My favourite track on RtL is the title track, but I think half the tracks on MoP are even better than "Ride the Lightning." Also, the production quality on MoP is so much better.
> 
> Totally different topic, but I miss the silliness that was bands naming themselves off of their best song. Like "Iron Madien" off of _Iron Maiden _by Iron Maiden or "Black Sabbath" off of _Black Sabbath _by Black Sabbath, of the genre Black Sabbath, released in the year Black Sabbath, track length Black minutes and Sabbath seconds.





Demiurge said:


> Maiden gets the edge here, going the extra step to include the song name in the lyrics.


Bad Company beat Iron Maiden on that front by six years.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 29, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I don't think that's a particularity warm take. I 100% choose MoP to RtL.



Ok. St. Anger is better than The Black Album.


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## bostjan (Jul 29, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Ok. St. Anger is better than The Black Album.


There ya go. Now I'll go grab my pitchfork.


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## tedtan (Jul 29, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Ok. St. Anger is better than The Black Album.


That’s not a hot take, that’s just factually incorrect.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 29, 2022)

tedtan said:


> That’s not a hot take, that’s just factually incorrect.



I think not! I rather listen to St. Anger. I don't understand the massive hate for it. It's not fantastic but it's okay, there's some pretty cool stuff going on in some songs and the production sounds pretty good to me, way better than Death Magnetic for example, that shit is unlistenable.

Black Album is just lame radio rock. Boring, uninteresting songs.


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## nickgray (Jul 29, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> and the production sounds pretty good to me







Dr. Caligari said:


> way better than Death Magnetic for example, that shit is unlistenable.



You do know about the Guitar Hero tracks, right?


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## gabito (Jul 29, 2022)

MFB said:


> Potentially hot take: no one besides other guitarist's will notice if you alt/economy pick the opening to Master of Puppets, and especially no one besides them will care.



Yeah, nobody will notice. Maybe only guitar players who are looking at what you do. But you shouldn't care about what other guitar players think, unless you're looking for advice.

To my ear, the difference it's more noticeable in slow songs than in fast ones.

I used to be able to play MoP downpicking only, but nowadays I don't care (or can). IIRC John Petrucci alt picks it, and I'm definitely not better than him. It's a cool skill to have, though.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 29, 2022)

This thread title is an 80s Priest song.


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## BornToLooze (Jul 29, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I think not! I rather listen to St. Anger. I don't understand the massive hate for it. It's not fantastic but it's okay, there's some pretty cool stuff going on in some songs and the production sounds pretty good to me, way better than Death Magnetic for example, that shit is unlistenable.
> 
> Black Album is just lame radio rock. Boring, uninteresting songs.



I saw SKOM and get the reason for St Anger, and all that, but I probably wouldn't like that album near as much as I do if it wasn't so fun to play.


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## Zer01 (Jul 30, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I think not! I rather listen to St. Anger. I don't understand the massive hate for it. It's not fantastic but it's okay, there's some pretty cool stuff going on in some songs and the production sounds pretty good to me, way better than Death Magnetic for example, that shit is unlistenable.
> 
> Black Album is just lame radio rock. Boring, uninteresting songs.


With the 30th anniversary a while back, I listened to the black album for the first time in a long time. I was surprised at how bad the lyrics were. Sad but True was the only bright spot.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 30, 2022)

All types of non-clean vocals are collectively the worst thing that has ever happened to metal. I do not entirely include screams here as many can still be clear. Any type of growl is fucking garbage though. The rest of the music has to do a hell of a make up job to be listenable otherwise.


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## nickgray (Jul 31, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> All types of non-clean vocals are collectively the worst thing that has ever happened to metal


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## KentBrockman (Jul 31, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> All types of non-clean vocals are collectively the worst thing that has ever happened to metal. I do not entirely include screams here as many can still be clear. Any type of growl is fucking garbage though. The rest of the music has to do a hell of a make up job to be listenable otherwise.



I am not into the screaming but I am a huge Children of Bodom fan. Because of where the vocals sit in the mix, I can filter them out and I am only paying attention to everything else.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 31, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> I am not into the screaming but I am a huge Children of Bodom fan. Because of where the vocals sit in the mix, I can filter them out and I am only paying attention to everything else.


Yeah. It honestly took me over a decade to really be able to filter out/ignore/make peace with Death and Black Metal vocals. Too much good music to pass up. Thinking of them as some other instrument was the main thing that worked for me.


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## odibrom (Jul 31, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> All types of non-clean vocals are collectively the worst thing that has ever happened to metal. I do not entirely include screams here as many can still be clear. Any type of growl is fucking garbage though. The rest of the music has to do a hell of a make up job to be listenable otherwise.



... and this is why I love instrumental music... It's pretty hard to find a good voice out there. Most are garbage and the rest follows closely. Then, when the voice is good, lyrics are often meh... combining good lyrics and good voice is pretty damn hard. Long live instrumental prog metal!... it's like DT minus James Labrie... perfect.


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## works0fheart (Jul 31, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I thought about it a bunch and came to the conclusion that I prefer Mop to Rtl. Creeping Death is maybe my favorite Metallica song but nothing else on Rtl is as amazing as that. Good but not like the songs on Mop imo.



Call of Ktulu!

There are some other good songs too. MoP was my favorite for a longgggg time, but I really like the sound and feel of RTL more now days. Call of Ktulu has to be the best instrumental metal song ever wrote.


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## Dr. Caligari (Jul 31, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Call of Ktulu!
> 
> There are some other good songs too. MoP was my favorite for a longgggg time, but I really like the sound and feel of RTL more now days. Call of Ktulu has to be the best instrumental metal song ever wrote.



Yeah it's good! I mean I really like both albums, it's just Puppets has the t/t, D. Heroes (one of my absolute favorite songs), Sanitarium etc. Fade to Black is good but doesn't take off like Sanitarium, Trapped Under Ice is very good but no Disposable Heroes... on the other hand For Whom is quite a bit better than Thing That... Eh, both fantastic albums.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... and this is why I love instrumental music... It's pretty hard to find a good voice out there. Most are garbage and the rest follows closely. Then, when the voice is good, lyrics are often meh... combining good lyrics and good voice is pretty damn hard. Long live instrumental prog metal!... it's like DT minus James Labrie... perfect.


even if the singer is good and the lyrics are (mostly) good, there's still the "irredeemable fuckwad" factor to account for. As such, I offer my humble contribution: 

TOOL with no MJK


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## BusinessMan (Aug 1, 2022)

KailM said:


> This band’s entire catalog, but here’s one of the most recent:



I've heard a couple songs off blut aus Nord's new album and liked but fuuuck this is album is insane! Anthosmos is amazing and my favorite. 

Another band I'd like to add to atmospheric black metal is gonna be ahklys. This is the band that really got me more into black metal.


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## Protestheriphery (Aug 1, 2022)

Jahnboy9000 said:


> James Hetfield should be exiled from society for his voice.
> 
> Also Trivium and similar are butt rock with breakdowns and solos and it took me almost 20 years to make that connection.


My first thought when I first heard Silence In the Snow was "Wait, are you sure THIS isn't the one that David Drain-man produced?" 'Until the World Goes Cold' is the hardest hitting P.O.D track, not written by them, ffs.


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## KailM (Aug 1, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> I've heard a couple songs off blut aus Nord's new album and liked but fuuuck this is album is insane! Anthosmos is amazing and my favorite.
> 
> Another band I'd like to add to atmospheric black metal is gonna be ahklys. This is the band that really got me more into black metal.




Yep BAN’s new album is incredible too, but not as accessible like Hallucinogen. My favorite is still probably Memoria Vetusta II but Hallucinogen is a close second, and has much better production.

Akhlys is sick too.\m/


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## bostjan (Aug 1, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> All types of non-clean vocals are collectively the worst thing that has ever happened to metal. I do not entirely include screams here as many can still be clear. Any type of growl is fucking garbage though. The rest of the music has to do a hell of a make up job to be listenable otherwise.


I used to think that way. Then my testicles dropped. 

Just kidding. But seriously, I used to hate false fold vocals until I really _really_ started paying attention. There comes a point where you can have a singer go full Halford and it's still just not enough intensity. Maybe the intensity doesn't have to be at 1000 all of the time, but if you're going to keep pushing that direction, I don't see a way around extreme vocals, unless (as @odibrom pointed out) you just go instrumental.


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## mmr007 (Aug 1, 2022)

Bon Scott was the greatest singer in the history of rock. There is no way to quantify it. There is no way to objectively prove it. And yet it remains true


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 5, 2022)

If Alex Skolnick didn't use the Ibanez 540PII, it'd be just another weird '80s shape.

Shit, Alex himself seemed to prefer the 540S.


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## gunch (Aug 5, 2022)

Norwegian OG black metal sucks. Earnest corpse paint dudes are dorks


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## Mprinsje (Aug 6, 2022)

What's considered a "good" guitar tone nowadays totally sucks ass. I get that guitar is supposed to be a mid focussed instrument but we're getting a bit overboard with it. Doesn't mean it needs to be AJFA scooped but there is a point somewhere in the middle that's better than the scratchy shit bands are putting out now. Guitar tones peaked somewhere between 1994 and 2009.

Also, bands that get focussed on being technical (Archspire, among others) are terrible as a band. Great players all but they're churning out terrible songs.


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## drb (Aug 6, 2022)

I have chosen violence:

Prog akin to Dream Theatre may be technically proficient but it sounds like highbrow haunted house/halloween music that goes on for far too long.

It's extremely rare that weird time signatures are used in a way that musically improve a song. They almost always sound clumsy and completely arrhythmic.

Metal fans suck in 2 parts:

1) Some punish themselves by gatekeeping and only listening to terrible music based on instrumental athleticism and complexity, entirely forgetting it should also sound good.

2) Those that hate change and reject anything new or modern are hindering the genre. I don't want to go to festivals to see 70+ year olds headlining, butchering their outdated music because they aren't capable of playing it anymore.

I 100% don't get Gojira. Boring vocals, boring music, don't get why they're so popular.

The big 4 thrash bands are all awful and cringe. Metallica in particular. Their overzealous fans are worse.

Metal took a turn for the better with nu metal and metalcore and has been steadily improving since. Modern metal is fantastic.


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## Emperoff (Aug 6, 2022)

Mprinsje said:


> Guitar tones peaked somewhere between 1994 and 2009.



Absolutely this. But not just guitar tones, but tones in general. 2010 onwards was also the rise of sampled drums and autotuned vocals.

The 00's Roadrunner era records still sound fantastic to this day.


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## bostjan (Aug 6, 2022)

Mprinsje said:


> What's considered a "good" guitar tone nowadays totally sucks ass. I get that guitar is supposed to be a mid focussed instrument but we're getting a bit overboard with it. Doesn't mean it needs to be AJFA scooped but there is a point somewhere in the middle that's better than the scratchy shit bands are putting out now. Guitar tones peaked somewhere between 1994 and 2009.
> 
> Also, bands that get focussed on being technical (Archspire, among others) are terrible as a band. Great players all but they're churning out terrible songs.


It's all entirely subjective, but I tend to agree with everything here.

Nirvana really proved that any group of guys could make it big in the music industry by just doing what they prefer to do, and, after Cobain died, bands scrambled to fill the void with variety, and it was great until it eventually overcorrected.


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## CapinCripes (Aug 16, 2022)

The randy burns mix of peace sells is more fun to listen to than the Paul lani mix. Peace sells is Megadeth stylistically at their prime despite not being technically at their prime till rust in peace. There were only two real vocalists for black Sabbath, let's all stop pretending.


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## sylcfh (Sep 6, 2022)

I don't listen to modern metal bands much, but I see their effect on YouTube gear demos. You don't need to set the mids at zero, but there does come a point where you no longer have any crunch and it doesn't much resemble rock or metal. Having unheard of amounts of gain doesn't change this.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 15, 2022)

Alice in Chains never deserved to be lumped into grunge, same with Soundgarden. They were both metal bands that got lumped with less heavy and less interesting bands.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 15, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Alice in Chains never deserved to be lumped into grunge, same with Soundgarden. They were both metal bands that got lumped with less heavy and less interesting bands.


AIC is kind of too one note/single gear to be metal.


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## gunch (Sep 15, 2022)

sylcfh said:


> I don't listen to modern metal bands much, but I see their effect on YouTube gear demos. You don't need to set the mids at zero, but there does come a point where you no longer have any crunch and it doesn't much resemble rock or metal. Having unheard of amounts of gain doesn't change this.


The new Ingested sounds fucking gross, nothing to be had except for farting duck mids. And they used to be one of the OGs of scooped downtuned death core.


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## broj15 (Sep 16, 2022)

Mprinsje said:


> What's considered a "good" guitar tone nowadays totally sucks ass.


Fucking this! 

Also Polyphia has more in common with pop EDM festival music than they do with any "respectable" prog band, and I mean that as a compliment just as much as I mean that as a diss. Also Chon did it better. And I guess This Town Needs Guns did it first. And while I'm at it a bunch of punks drinking beer in basements in Pennsylvania did it better that all of them back in 2007, and all they had were telecasters & capos (basically just listen to Glocca Morra & Algernon Cadwallader if you want shreddy guitars & pop hooks you dance and/or mosh to).


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## sylcfh (Sep 18, 2022)

gunch said:


> The new Ingested sounds fucking gross, nothing to be had except for farting duck mids. And they used to be one of the OGs of scooped downtuned death core.






It either honks like a Canadian Goose or is so compressed that it sounds like a root canal.


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## Isaiah04 (Sep 18, 2022)

A majority of Modern Metal play it way too safe now compared to before. Compared to the 2000s and below, theres hardly any real distinction between bands, productionwise and sound wise. Most bands are sticking with the Prog-Metalcore sound (architects) or Generic Deathcore sound (Plastic production and ambient breakdowns)

Melodic Death Metal is very hit or miss and is hard to make without sounding cheesy

Thrash is extremely stagnant and limiting

Prog/Tech Death can be very creative with writing, but execution can be hit or miss


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## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2022)

Isaiah04 said:


> Prog/Tech Death can be very creative with writing, but execution can be hit or miss



Inferi has entered the chat:


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## Isaiah04 (Sep 21, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Inferi has entered the chat:



Personally I prefer Malcolms solo project A Loathing Requiem but Inferi is good too


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## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2022)

Isaiah04 said:


> Personally I prefer Malcolms solo project A Loathing Requiem but Inferi is good too



Checking that shit right now.


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## wheresthefbomb (Sep 21, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Nirvana really proved that any group of guys could make it big in the music industry by just doing what they prefer to do, and, after Cobain died, bands scrambled to fill the void with variety, and it was great until it eventually overcorrected.



While I've never been a huge fan, this also speaks to the success of Foo Fighters. To me it seems Dave just kept working with the blueprint that did so well for Nirvana, if somewhat streamlined.


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## youngthrasher9 (Oct 14, 2022)

I think that old school death metal guitar tones generally fit the genre better than modern death metal guitar tones. I love both but there’s something about slightly scoopy gross trem picked evil riffs that just fits the context so well.


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## MFB (Oct 14, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> I think that old school death metal guitar tones generally fit the genre better than modern death metal guitar tones. I love both but there’s something about slightly scoopy gross trem picked evil riffs that just fits the context so well.



Are you saying for all genres, or that if a band is playing like OSDM then they shouldn't have overly clean production? I agree with the latter of the two, but I don't think that same tone would work for tech death or something like that; with how much is going on, it'd get muddy fast.


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## BusinessMan (Oct 14, 2022)

Bad production shouldn't be a thing anymore. Home software and plug-ins etc cost next to nothing if not free. You have no excuse for your music to sound like it was recorded on a 3rd graders toy microphone.


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## youngthrasher9 (Oct 14, 2022)

MFB said:


> Are you saying for all genres, or that if a band is playing like OSDM then they shouldn't have overly clean production? I agree with the latter of the two, but I don't think that same tone would work for tech death or something like that; with how much is going on, it'd get muddy fast.


I’m saying that I prefer OSDM guitar sounds and most modern death metal bands in general (non-throwback) are using pretty generic sounding tones, but also that modern DM tones are often really polished sounding and I think a nasty messy tone is a nice metaphorical reflection of the lyrics and vocals when the content is gory ass shit. I think that CC is a great example of a perfect balance- it’s gnarly, fat as shit guitar tone but it is still produced well and that is fine.


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## Emperoff (Oct 14, 2022)

BusinessMan said:


> Bad production shouldn't be a thing anymore. Home software and plug-ins etc cost next to nothing if not free. You have no excuse for your music to sound like it was recorded on a 3rd graders toy microphone.



Says who?


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 14, 2022)

I'll take "bad" (amateur) production on good music over hyper-polished samey djenty deathcore all day every day. I'm not saying you can't have both, but given the high frequency of examples on both sides, I'm a lot more interested in someone who put work into making interesting, unique art vs someone who put work into polishing something that sounds exactly like thousands of other djenty desthcore projects.


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## Sammy J (Oct 15, 2022)

The current modern tech death scene of bands like Revocation, Inferi, Archspire et all does nothing for me. On paper they should appeal, but I find nothing that sticks or has any sort of staying power.


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## ezboarderz (Oct 15, 2022)

the more strings, the better:


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## MrBouleDeBowling (Oct 15, 2022)

Black Label Society is just slower Guns n' Roses


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## CapinCripes (Oct 15, 2022)

I always thought the goal was to sound raw without sounding like venom.


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## TheBlackBard (Oct 15, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I'll take "bad" (amateur) production on good music over hyper-polished samey djenty deathcore all day every day. I'm not saying you can't have both, but given the high frequency of examples on both sides, I'm a lot more interested in someone who put work into making interesting, unique art vs someone who put work into polishing something that sounds exactly like thousands of other djenty desthcore projects.


This right fucking here. I swear, every "djent" and "core" album has the same damn tone or close to it.


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## Emperoff (Oct 15, 2022)

Sammy J said:


> The current modern tech death scene of bands like Revocation, or Archspire et all does nothing for me. On paper they should appeal, but I find nothing that sticks or has any sort of staying power.
> Inferi are awesome, though.



FTFY


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## broj15 (Oct 15, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> This right fucking here. I swear, every "djent" and "core" album has the same damn tone or close to it.



Personally I blame forums like this one and the popularity of axefx/Kemper/helix/other modelers and vst's/doing EVERY aspect of recording in a DAW combined with people being lazy and wanting instant gratification. It's just way easier and faster to buy an axefx and copy patches from the guitarist of some flavor of the month "prog" or core band (who's probably doing the same thing except he took his patches from last months flavor of the month) or fire up some plug ins that are cosigned by whatever "producer" everyone is dick riding nowadays. 

Finding "your tone" is a slow process and takes work, and research, and disposable income. Not everyone has that but I guarantee that people in bands do, otherwise they'd be doing something more productive than trying to turn a hobby into a career. 

And that's just the guitars. Don't get me started on how lazy people are when it comes to recording drums. It's infinitely easier to just program that stuff than it is to properly mic a drum kit.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 15, 2022)

broj15 said:


> Finding "your tone" is a slow process and takes work, and research, and disposable income. Not everyone has that but I guarantee that people in bands do, otherwise they'd be doing something more productive than trying to turn a hobby into a career.



I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but a heady combination of poverty and lowered expectations has done wonders for my tone chasing. It helps that there's not much of a devoted base constantly trying to tease apart the minute variables of making the kinds of sounds I do, the answer tends to much more often be some permutation of "anything with a lot of headroom" when it comes to amps.


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## TheBlackBard (Oct 15, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but a heady combination of poverty and lowered expectations has done wonders for my tone chasing. It helps that there's not much of a devoted base constantly trying to tease apart the minute variables of making the kinds of sounds I do, the answer tends to much more often be some permutation of "anything with a lot of headroom" when it comes to amps.



I've found a lot of interesting tones with inexpensive pedals. Boss SD-1 into a Big Muff Pi yielded some pretty cool stuff.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 15, 2022)

Boosted fuzz is the secret to happiness. A true gestalt.


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## TheBlackBard (Oct 15, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Boosted fuzz is the secret to happiness. A true gestalt.



You ain't lying. I'm getting an MXR Micro Amp tomorrow and I want to boost my Burial At Sea with it.


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## Sammy J (Oct 15, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> FTFY



Haha I wish I could see it man! I dunno, I’ll give them another try but whenever I listen to these bands, I just end up switching back to Necrophagist or SoP, who do it so much better.


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## Lan (Oct 15, 2022)

Electronic music pushed musical innovation way further than metal ever did. 

They are both broad genres, but when I listen to something like space laces, I find that sonically it just covers so much more ground, as well as having all sorts of diverse tempos, dissonances, textures etc. than most of the metal stuff I listen to.


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## broj15 (Oct 16, 2022)

Lan said:


> Electronic music pushed musical innovation way further than metal ever did.
> 
> They are both broad genres, but when I listen to something like space laces, I find that sonically it just covers so much more ground, as well as having all sorts of diverse tempos, dissonances, textures etc. than most of the metal stuff I listen to.


Really though, I love my elektron digitakt and it allows me to program polyrhythms and weird time signatures in a couple seconds thanks to it's powerful sequencer, as well as handling melodic duties, all while mangling everything from basic 909 one shots to whatever found sounds I feed into it into oblivion.


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## BlackMastodon (Oct 25, 2022)

I haven't listened to Archspire until today when a song came up in my Spotify discover weekly playlist. It's just over-produced, glitchy-sounding, sped-up riff salad and super uninteresting. Definitely agree they're a bad take on tech death.


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## bostjan (Oct 25, 2022)

I like riff salad as long as the ingredients are spicy enough.


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## syzygy (Oct 25, 2022)

Koloss > Obzen

I also like Archspire


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## Isaiah04 (Oct 25, 2022)

Sammy J said:


> The current modern tech death scene of bands like Revocation, Inferi, Archspire et all does nothing for me. On paper they should appeal, but I find nothing that sticks or has any sort of staying power.


Archspire sounds like a dollar store Spawn Of Possession, similar ingredients but lacking the original flavor


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## ExMachina (Oct 25, 2022)

Isaiah04 said:


> Archspire sounds like a dollar store Spawn Of Possession, similar ingredients but lacking the original flavor


Gonna have to explain this one. Archspire and spawn sound nothing alike to me other than having some fast technical riffs.


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## BlackMastodon (Oct 25, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I like riff salad as long as the ingredients are spicy enough.


I agree, but when it sounds like a guitar pro file because there are 64th note blast beats at 200 bpm it does not make for a spicy salad.


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## MFB (Oct 25, 2022)

I've listened to some of Dean Lamb's playthroughs, and their bassist also has a YT page where he includes some breakdowns, I think the biggest crux of AS is that the drummer seems to have no restraint; he's just "Oops, all blast beats for the entire song, every song" whereas if you dial it back when the guitar is going HAM or go HAM when some of the other instruments are doing 1/8th or 1/16th note runs, it greatly changes the dynamic and is inherently more interesting.


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## CanserDYI (Oct 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> I've listened to some of Dean Lamb's playthroughs, and their bassist also has a YT page where he includes some breakdowns, I think the biggest crux of AS is that the drummer seems to have no restraint; he's just "Oops, all blast beats for the entire song, every song" whereas if you dial it back when the guitar is going HAM or go HAM when some of the other instruments are doing 1/8th or 1/16th note runs, it greatly changes the dynamic and is inherently more interesting.


I'll agree with that. Doesn't stop me from watching Dean and toby live work some wizardry with their pickup switching game. Seriously, watching the amount of times they switch pickups in Doppelganger is insane.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 27, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I like riff salad as long as the ingredients are spicy enough.


No one can riff salad and make it a song as well as Dave Mustaine did, especially on Peace Sells.


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## bostjan (Oct 28, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> No one can riff salad and make it a song as well as Dave Mustaine did, especially on Peace Sells.


He'll yeah! Peace Salad- and I'm buyin'


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## BornToLooze (Oct 28, 2022)

Metal is full of hypocrisy and that's fine as long as you can admit you just like what you like.

Does all modern metal sound the same? If you aren't into it, yes. It's all just flavor of the month pickups with flavor of the month patches. Which, despite what people think, isn't a bad thing. My 2 favorite types of metal are cranked Marshall into hot rodded Strat and EMGs into Dual Recs


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## profwoot (Oct 29, 2022)

This has been a fun thread. I checked out a bunch of bands I hadn't before.

Archspire sounds like Dethklok.


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## dr_game0ver (Oct 29, 2022)

Death and early metal (70' and early 80') is best riffs! Fight me.


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## Ralyks (Oct 29, 2022)

Jim Matheos and Frank Aresti should be up there with the Elite metal guitar duos, your Glenn Tipton and KK Downings, your Dave Murray and Adrian Smiths, your Michael Wilton and Chris DeGarmos (and if they aren't on that list, add them).


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 2, 2022)

Entheos writes some of the most boring and uninspired tech death I've ever heard, and that's saying something.


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## Wiltonauer (Nov 2, 2022)

Growl vocals need to get in the bin straightaway. Mustaine singing through his clenched teeth gets a pass because (1) I can usually understand him and (2) the iconic riffs. Really the world would be a better place if more people in metal bands would stop making noise with their faces and just focus on sick riffs and heavy grooves. Solos, too, as long as they don’t all sound like the thirty million bozos on Tik-Tok all playing the same thing. Try to throw an actual musical idea in there once in a while, hopefully one that can’t be replicated by a Dremel tool, dental drill, mustache trimmer, etc.


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## works0fheart (Nov 6, 2022)

It feels bad that thinking Archspire is good is a hot take I guess.


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## John (Nov 6, 2022)

Gear review videos are boring and are just dime-a-dozen, at this point. Same type of things can be said with superstrats especially in the 7 string category and up.



Wiltonauer said:


> Mustaine singing through his clenched teeth gets a yikes hard pass


Fixed. The angsty 11 year old-esque lyrics sore at the world fit with that style he's been stanning, too. Not that it's something to celebrate, but it is there just the same.


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## Emperoff (Nov 6, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Entheos writes some of the most boring and uninspired tech death I've ever heard, and that's saying something.



Those ultra-cool Jacksons deserve better. No doubt. Good thing Malcom Pugh didn't stay and went on to make a kickass band instead.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 6, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Those ultra-cool Jacksons deserve better. No doubt. Good thing Malcom Pugh didn't stay and went on to make a kickass band instead.


It's a shame because Travis is a great player, and I wanted to see him put out some cool tech death stuff. Malcolm is a monster player and writer, I love his stuff in Inferi.


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## Wiltonauer (Nov 6, 2022)

John said:


> Gear review videos are boring and are just dime-a-dozen, at this point. Same type of things can be said with superstrats especially in the 7 string category and up.


I like the video reviewers who don’t mind conveying their ambivalence about a piece of gear, or at least are realistic about the balance of pros and cons. It seems like most people are quick to decide between fawning praise and absolute condemnation, and it blinds them to nuance and perspective.


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## profwoot (Nov 6, 2022)

Wiltonauer said:


> It seems like most people are quick to decide between fawning praise and absolute condemnation, and it blinds them to nuance and perspective.


This, regarding everything. Every topic is sports now.


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## Masoo2 (Nov 6, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Entheos writes some of the most boring and uninspired tech death I've ever heard, and that's saying something.


I knew from the first time I heard "Primal" that I'd never like Entheos.

Shame because the members are insanely talented.


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## broj15 (Nov 6, 2022)

John said:


> Gear review videos are boring and are just dime-a-dozen, at this point.



Me and my friend have been joking about starting a gear review/demo YT channel where we don't actually have the gear in front of us (or even pick up our guitars for that matter) and just base our opinions completely off of what it says on sweetwater, forum & Facebook group posts, and leaning heavily into brand perception and our own personal bias (for example I love boss pedals but am underwhelmed by all the waza craft stuff and he hates boss pedals UNLESS it's a waza craft edition). And of course rating gear & pedals based on the "knobs to dollars ratio" but if it has faders instead of knobs that changes things because everyone knows that faders make a piece of gear sound 10 times better because faders are (easily) 10 times cooler than boring knobs. Also throwing in bits like how through hole & "analog" sounds better or "warmer" than anything with digital or SMD components - a direct reference to some of the promotional material for those new PRS pedals, which featured embarrassing pictures of dry and possibly cold solder joints .

The working name is "regular guy gear reviews" because it's exactly what everyone does in their head when formulating an opinion on a piece of gear. They just don't want to admit it.


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## Emperoff (Nov 6, 2022)

broj15 said:


> Also throwing in bits like how through hole & "analog" sounds better or "warmer" than anything with digital or SMD components.



I have two gripes with SMD components. One is repairability. I have an amp with some parts of the preamp SMD based and it was a nightmare to track the problem without schematics.

The other is simply a cost/price relationship. Mass produced SMD boards are a lot cheaper to produce than through hole circuits, so when I see "boutique" pedals with SMD guts selling at several hundreds, I cringe very hard.

Sound-wise I don't give a shit. If it sounds good, that's what matters.


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## ExMachina (Nov 6, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I have two gripes with SMD components. One is repairability. I have an amp with some parts of the preamp SMD based and it was a nightmare to track the problem without schematics.
> 
> The other is simply a cost/price relationship. Mass produced SMD boards are a lot cheaper to produce than through hole circuits, so when I see "boutique" pedals with SMD guts selling at several hundreds, I cringe very hard.
> 
> Sound-wise I don't give a shit. If it sounds good, that's what matters.


How much do a bunch RC circuits and tubes cost these days? What are the margins on a tube amp?


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## John (Nov 6, 2022)

Wiltonauer said:


> I like the video reviewers who don’t mind conveying their ambivalence about a piece of gear, or at least are realistic about the balance of pros and cons. It seems like most people are quick to decide between fawning praise and absolute condemnation, and it blinds them to nuance and perspective.


Yeah, part of the flack is also on account of how cut-and-paste a lot of them are on top of the lack of said balance (obviously not to be expected out of sponsored videos, but I digress).

ie-
YouTubers and wannabe content creators will say “_this is the best, most versatile guitar and amp I’ve ever played”_ + all of the corny clickbait cards, bells, and whistles on top. Only to spam the same old boring bullshido code riff on the first two frets, nothing else to actually show for. Then they post the equipment for sale a day later at a noticeable monetary loss each time for those big brained stonks moves /s/. Rinse and repeat.



broj15 said:


> The working name is "regular guy gear reviews" because it's exactly what everyone does in their head when formulating an opinion on a piece of gear. They just don't want to admit it.


Add some abnormal, tryhard brand proselytzing and you're good to go. I've seen that along with the aforementioned stuff you described, as well. 
ie- one scrub persistently going at great lengths to shield Kiesel during the 2020 maple-gate debacle despite not owning a Kiesel- only going on literally everything you just described- and some Balaguer brand simp practically to the point of tears + heated gamer moments when he was begging me to sell my old ESP for a janky spec'd Balaguer I was not even in the market for.


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## Emperoff (Nov 6, 2022)

ExMachina said:


> How much do a bunch RC circuits and tubes cost these days? What are the margins on a tube amp?



Tubes are quite expensive nowadays, and through hole component prices have gone up in price a lot lately (which is probably the reason so many manufacturers are migrating to SMD). The biggest difference in costs comes from labour, though. SMD boards are machine-made (and plenty of times directly outsourced from china for later assembly).

It is the inevitable future for the the guitar gear industry, though. But after having an amp sitting around for almost a year until I eventually got it fixed, I have little interest in migrating to a tech that only benefits the manufacturer if I can help it. Obviously, I'm no fool and I wouldn't discard pedals I love because of it.


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## Wiltonauer (Nov 6, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I have two gripes with SMD components. One is repairability. I have an amp with some parts of the preamp SMD based and it was a nightmare to track the problem without schematics.
> 
> The other is simply a cost/price relationship. Mass produced SMD boards are a lot cheaper to produce than through hole circuits, so when I see "boutique" pedals with SMD guts selling at several hundreds, I cringe very hard.
> 
> Sound-wise I don't give a shit. If it sounds good, that's what matters.


Certainly SMD gets no kudos for repairability. I can solder, but I can’t solder like that. I’d have to miniaturize myself like in a Rick Moranis movie and use a straight pin for a soldering iron. 

A lot of the stuff we guitarists use these days probably just couldn’t be made at the size and price it sells for without SMD. I often wonder how many pedal brands that occupy the boutique price space do enough volume to realize the kind of per-unit costs that a Boss or a TC probably has on SMD. I try to imagine the same pedal built hand-soldered, with through-hole components. Then I look inside a Wampler pedal and am really glad they are using SMD.

When you look inside a product that’s made with through-hole, discrete components, it’s somehow more impressive than a pedal that sounds about the same but has a seemingly infinite number of vanishingly small, surface-mount components all perfectly machine soldered to something from an Intel commercial. Something that complicated and high-tech _should _do something impressive, damnit. When I opened up my first pedal all those years ago, what I saw looked like the inside of the toy walkie-talkies I had when I was a kid. It was a bunch of bent-up, crooked resistor legs and capacitors glued down and leaning every which way, dicey-looking solder joints, rats’ nest of wires going everywhere… The fact that it both worked and did something I really liked to the sound of my guitar, well the only obvious explanation was that it was magic. All this ugly crap that looked like it was made from the guts of a clock radio from the 1970’s, and there were people who knew how to use the same kinds of parts to make what Steve Vai was using. I found out this magic was really something called electrical engineering.


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## Emperoff (Nov 6, 2022)

Wiltonauer said:


> Certainly SMD gets no kudos for repairability. I can solder, but I can’t solder like that. I’d have to miniaturize myself like in a Rick Moranis movie and use a straight pin for a soldering iron.
> 
> A lot of the stuff we guitarists use these days probably just couldn’t be made at the size and price it sells for without SMD. I often wonder how many pedal brands that occupy the boutique price space do enough volume to realize the kind of per-unit costs that a Boss or a TC probably has on SMD. I try to imagine the same pedal built hand-soldered, with through-hole components. Then I look inside a Wampler pedal and am really glad they are using SMD.



Yes. For example a through-hole version of an AMT-SS11 would be twice the size at least (it's crammed enough even for an SMD pedal). You just need to take a look at something like a Victory V4 or a Koch Pedaltone to see what a full tube/thru-hole preamp looks like. They're huge.

What I despise are companies waving the "boutique" flag while selling TS clones with SMD guts at 230$.


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## John (Nov 6, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> What I despise are companies waving the "boutique" flag while selling TS clones with SMD guts at 230$.


Tone is stored in cutting corners with extra markup and cringe marketing.


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## TheBlackBard (Nov 6, 2022)

Much of metal has cringe ass lyrics that are rooted either in being way too obvious (Five Finger Death Punch) or is so rooted melodramaticism that it's hard to take seriously. That's just the way it is for my favorite genre.


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## crushingpetal (Nov 11, 2022)

My first post on SSO and here it goes:

Fallujah's _Undying Light_ is their best (and a really great album).


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## bostjan (Nov 11, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> Much of metal has cringe ass lyrics that are rooted either in being way too obvious (Five Finger Death Punch) or is so rooted melodramaticism that it's hard to take seriously. That's just the way it is for my favorite genre.


Right now I'm struggling with this exact problem. In my new band, whenever we talk about learning a cover, it seems like the bass player, other guitarist, and usually the drummer agree on a song with awesome instrumentals, and then the singer vetoes because the lyrics are too embarrassingly cringey to perform in public. Then I'll look at the lyrics, which I usually don't know that well, and agree that I don't really even want to be standing there on stage next to the guy singing at that level of cringe.  Between that and the low tolerance for cheese and schmaltz (which means all power metal and speed metal are right out), it's really making it hard to find three songs that don't have some major flaw.



crushingpetal said:


> My first post on SSO and here it goes:
> 
> Fallujah's _Undying Light_ is their best (and a really great album).


Not familiar enough with their catalogue to agree or disagree, but, I'm thinking you'll fit right in with the rest of us opinionated nerds.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 11, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Right now I'm struggling with this exact problem. In my new band, whenever we talk about learning a cover, it seems like the bass player, other guitarist, and usually the drummer agree on a song with awesome instrumentals, and then the singer vetoes because the lyrics are too embarrassingly cringey to perform in public. Then I'll look at the lyrics, which I usually don't know that well, and agree that I don't really even want to be standing there on stage next to the guy singing at that level of cringe.  Between that and the low tolerance for cheese and schmaltz (which means all power metal and speed metal are right out), it's really making it hard to find three songs that don't have some major flaw.
> 
> 
> Not familiar enough with their catalogue to agree or disagree, but, I'm thinking you'll fit right in with the rest of us opinionated nerds.


He means their worst album is their best. He's going for the throat for a first post.


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## BusinessMan (Nov 13, 2022)

Me being excited for disturbed's new album. The singles had some nice riffs


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 20, 2022)

synth and symphonic bits in metal make a song sound cheesy as fuck 95% of the time. 
Jordan Rudess is the worst part of Dream Theater (not technique wise but I hate the "haunted house music" vibes his synth parts give every song)


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## beerandbeards (Nov 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> synth and symphonic bits in metal make a song sound cheesy as fuck 95% of the time.
> Jordan Rudess is the worst part of Dream Theater (not technique wise but I hate the "haunted house music" vibes his synth parts give every song)


I think he’s one of the most insanly talented musicians ever, but I hate when he does some goofy ragtime or distorted synth with a bunch of pitch shifts solos.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Nov 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> synth and symphonic bits in metal make a song sound cheesy as fuck 95% of the time.
> Jordan Rudess is the worst part of Dream Theater (not technique wise but I hate the "haunted house music" vibes his synth parts give every song)




symphonic shit can fuck off since it usually drowns out a really good heavy technical riff, but if done well synths like the stuff on the new Varials album are god tier 

otherwise if it's just playing leads you could do on guitar, no


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## LordCashew (Nov 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I hate the "haunted house music" vibes his synth parts give every song


At least that's better than the "carnival music" solos he pulls out occasionally... Beyond this Life, for example. Even as a teenage DT fanboy that pissed me off.


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## BlackMastodon (Nov 20, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> synth and symphonic bits in metal make a song sound cheesy as fuck 95% of the time.


Counter point: depends on the genre. Synth in post-metal like Isis, Cult of Luna, or Rosetta is always tastefully done and does bring together the whole package. 

But yeah, gtfoh with that Dragonforce-level cheese.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 20, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> symphonic shit can fuck off since it usually drowns out a really good heavy technical riff, but if done well synths like the stuff on the new Varials album are god tier
> 
> otherwise if it's just playing leads you could do on guitar, no





BlackMastodon said:


> Counter point: depends on the genre. Synth in post-metal like Isis, Cult of Luna, or Rosetta is always tastefully done and does bring together the whole package.
> 
> But yeah, gtfoh with that Dragonforce-level cheese.


good synth:
any industrial esque stuff
ambient synth bits



bad synth:
every symphonic power metal band
most symphonic black metal
70s loving prog nerd music (see: Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, etc)


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 20, 2022)

The synth in this song kicks ass.



Anyone who says differently is obviously a fed.


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## drb (Nov 21, 2022)

Hate to break it to you fellas but Dream Theatre and similar prog sounds like haunted house music with or without the synths. Slightly less-so, yes, but still haunted house genre.

Electronic elements can and do sound great when done tastefully and not over music that uses abstract modes and keys just to be big brain. 

Even their famously good riffs like the intro to The Dark Eternal Night (which sounds great, no denying that) would still easily fit as the theme for a kids Halloween show. They should get in contact with R. L. Stine for a deal.


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## Seabeast2000 (Nov 21, 2022)

Josh Silver- best metal keys evar.


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