# Majorly bad deal with forum member Wayward



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

So, I had made a deal with forum member wayward where we agreed upon the following terms... before you read any of this, I assure you that I have proof to back up everything I'm saying (in the event that you might hear otherwise), and I would hope that my reputation is proof enough for you to begin with...

I send him:

Jackson SLS3 
LTD H-351nt 
Brand new Ibanez TS9
Brand new Dimarzio 
$100

He sends me:

2011 Macbook Pro with 2.4ghz i7 in like new condition
Factory 2nd Schecter Hellraiser C-7
Little 25 key midi keyboard
M-box mini interface
Student edition software - Logic 9, Pro tools 10, Aurelia 4, Sibelius 7


Now, he had told me that he would get a case off of his friend to ship the Hellraiser in it... the Hellraiser was instead shipped in a triangular box with little more than thick tissue paper to protect it:







Sure enough, the neck broke half-way off the body right at the neck-joint:










On top of that, the computer had a variety of scratches, and dings on it. So, naturally, I brought these things up to dude. He gave me a bit of grief about the computer, stating that his ad was nearly 7 months old and that the computer was used during that time so it would obviously have signs of use... well, that hadn't been stated before the deal was made. He apologized about the guitar, but said that it wasn't his fault - that he simply shipped the guitar to me the way it had been shipped to him. When I asked why it wasn't in a case, he said that he only told me that he would TRY to get a case from his friend, but that his friend was actually mad when he told him what he would do with the case. So it showed up in a box instead... and he did not insure the guitar, which would have cost $6 max. He once again apologized, and we decided to settle the score by him sending the LTD back to me to compensate for the Hellraiser and the condition of the computer (since it was initially agreed that I would receive a like new Macbook). He even told me to keep the Hellraiser so that I could salvage it. Fair enough.

Well, a week or so goes by, and I ask him to send the LTD to me, and I also bring up the fact that the computer actually has a 2.2ghz processor, and not a 2.4ghz processor like he had described prior to our making a deal. This made him angry. I was insulted several times, and while most of it is documented on facebook, I don't care to share it. The entire time, I kept my cool. I just repeatedly told him that we had agreed on certain terms, and that those terms hadn't exactly been met. He then brought up that the Jackson and LTD I sent him both had flaws (two or three minor scratches - like a half centimeter long - on the bottom side of the Jackson, and typical polishing swirls on the LTD)... and also that the pickup and pedal that I owed him had not shown up yet. Now, I had forgotten to ship the pedal and pickup inside the box with the two guitars I sent him, so I had to send them out a day or two later. The post office had an incomplete address on those packages so they never made it there at that point. Regardless, I made sure they got there, and dude has them now. Anyway, he insulted me several times, then blocked me on facebook.

Long story short, I had an alternative facebook account, messaged him from that, and after offering to send the broken Hellraiser back to him and give him $100 in exchange for the LTD (which is far more than generous of me) he has blocked me on facebook (again) basically implying that he will be keeping the LTD and that I'm essentially screwed. Further more, he had told other forum members (who will not be named) that he intended to keep the LTD. He has given many reasons for this (at least, I have to assume they're reasons) before blocking me, some of which are that I'm a prude, and that I'm an ass, and that I'm just trying to milk him for more money, and that I'm a hypocrite, etc. He claims that I got such a much better deal than he did and that I'm am in the wrong for asking for compensation for the computer's flaws, lesser processor, and a broken Hellraiser, even though I offered to compensate for the so called flaws on the two guitars I sent to him. He claims that it might not be the moral thing to do, but its not illegal, because I willingly sent my things to him and that there are no regulations on trade agreements made through facebook. 

Now, for starters, I would like to say that it doesn't matter if I party A agrees to trade a million dollar car for party B's thousand dollar car - if party A describes that car as being in completely new, perfect condition, prior to the agreement, and it shows up with rust, dings, etc., party B is not out of line in asking for compensation. Business is business, and facts are facts. However, this extreme example is almost not even relative to my particular situation, because neither of us got the better end of the deal. It was pretty fair... but the point is, it doesn't matter who got a better deal, it just matters that both ends of the agreement are upheld. By bringing this point up, I was deemed a prudish asshole by this fellow. 


I thought I'd share this with all of you because, in honesty, I don't know how to deal with it from here, and I thought it would be good for you to all know of my experience in case you were to ever try to sort out a deal with this guy. I don't want to be stuck with a broken Hellraiser, and I'm already beat on the Macbook if I were to ever sell it, since the condition is not "like new" and the processor is few hundred dollars cheaper than the one I was rightfully expecting.


EDIT: I'll say this again - if anybody is somehow getting an alternative version of this story, I don't mind sharing with them the actual dialogue here to show that I'm not lying or exaggerating.. my reputation isn't worth what's at stake here. I just want this Hellraiser to be replaced, and I want the ilok for protools.


----------



## Thyber (Aug 31, 2012)

I wouldn't put up for it; any "legal" actions on refunding for the macbook and guitar? I mean he's to ship it in a decent manner, not dropping it in a cardboard box ...


----------



## MFB (Aug 31, 2012)

Not sure if this counts as mail fraud since technically you did get what you were told but with some differences (like the processor being different) and especially now where he said that he's just keeping the guitar even though the one you got is broken. Do you have proof it wasn't broken before he shipped it? OR that he said he WOULD get a case vs. TRY to get one? Not to mention the fact that he basically admitted to screwing you over at this point by keeping the LTD even though he wasn't living up to his end of the deal. 

I'd say look into that option and if it constitutes mail fraud, contact his local PD


----------



## flexkill (Aug 31, 2012)

Damn dude, you and I may not always agree....but you have been fair, honest and a pleasure to deal with in our business transactions. You definitely don't deserve this. I feel for you man, hopefully something good will turn up in it for you. Where is this douche located may I ask?

EDIT: never mind, I see he is a member here. I'll look at his stats.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

Legal action is more than likely an option, though I don't know how expensive it would ultimately be, so I'm not really inclined to take that route at this point. Either way, I don't feel that I deserve such disrespect.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that he didn't even send the ilok for the Protools software, so its useless.


----------



## MFB (Aug 31, 2012)

If he said they were installed on the Macbook, and were usable than I think that definitely constitutes having legal action being able to be taken since technically it's not true and you paid for something you can't use unless you pay for it yourself which wasn't part of the deal


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Aug 31, 2012)

Sucks. Thanks for the heads up and hopefully you can work out this situation.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

He had apologized for not sending the ilok, which was a mistake on his part, and said that he would send it to me when he sent the LTD.... but then later said that he didn't technically say he would send the LTD... even though he literally said, "When i send the LTD back to you, i'll send the ilok with it." If that doesn't mean you're sending an LTD back, then I don't know what it means.

To be sure, this is who I'm talking about: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/wayward.html


----------



## flexkill (Aug 31, 2012)

All this is documented on FB then put it all on a thumbdrive and go to the cops man.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

WOW, and now, somebody forwarded this picture to me:






He's trying to trade the LTD away so that he doesn't have it anymore. 

Anybody have any suggestions here? A court case would be more expensive than the guitar is worth, most likely, but I don't appreciate any of this.


----------



## skeels (Aug 31, 2012)

I guess maybe I'm glad I can't see the picture!

I'm glad you posted this though. Forum members should not be allowed to burn other members without being called out on it.


----------



## MFB (Aug 31, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> WOW, and now, somebody forwarded this picture to me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The text isn't readable given the images size.

But what Flexkill said is true, take a printed copy of your conversations to the police.


----------



## flexkill (Aug 31, 2012)

I guess this is the culprit.






Someone has to live near this guy. A visit may need to be arranged.


----------



## FireInside (Aug 31, 2012)

Unfortunately Law Enforcement (at least here in California) can't do anything. This is what is described as a civil matter and doesn't fall under criminal law. In CA your best course of action is to take file a claim in civil court to recoup your losses. Laws vary from state to state so there may very well be some sort of action your local agency or his local agency can take. You should contact your local LE and see what they have to say. The best you could shoot for would be some sort of embezzlement.

That being said, I am very sorry to hear about this. This guy needs to make things right and return your LTD. I cannot fathom how someone could think it is acceptable to ship a guitar like tlthat and not insure it. Ridiculous.


----------



## tacotiklah (Aug 31, 2012)

Sorry to hear that man. 

Love all of you guys but this is exactly why I never trade, buy, or sell on here. I don't get money often and if I got burned like this, I'd never be able to afford to rectify it. I hope that you get your LTD back Adam. Sending a guitar half-assed packaged because 'that's how I got it' is retarded.


----------



## texshred777 (Aug 31, 2012)

Case or no, insurance isn't expensive. Neither is some bubble wrap and packing peanuts. I've shipped guitars overseas without a case and arrived just fine. 

I'm not sure criminal legal action can be taken. I'd talk to the police about mail fraud, but wouldn't be surprised if they referred it to someone else as a civil matter. 

I'm not sure about the laws of jurisdiction in your area, but in Texas it would be reported to your local agency, not his.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Aug 31, 2012)

thats pretty fucked up dude, unfortunately i dont think youll get your stuff back but im really hoping you do. i wish i could offer some type of legal advice about this but i know far too little about the legal system.


----------



## MikeH (Aug 31, 2012)

Even though I'm quite sure everyone knows you well enough to know that you're definitely in the right, thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention. I've been burned like this before and it didn't work out to my advantage, so I hope you get compensated for it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Aug 31, 2012)

Every time this happens a thread like this goes up and someone gets banned. But seriously, w social networking being what it is today (and even if it wasn't) why the hell would you do this?


----------



## purpledc (Aug 31, 2012)

I sent the guy a message on FB. I wasnt rude. Just wanting to let him know that he aint gonna pull this shit and have everyone here pretend like hes all good. I fucking HATE people who do this kinda shit.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't encourage anybody to cause any trouble or anything like that, but I do appreciate help. Hopefully he does the right thing and makes this right. So far, the best he has done was disrespect me more than a tolerable amount.


----------



## Levi79 (Aug 31, 2012)

Wow that really sucks man. Especially since it was easily avoidable. I hope it all works out in the end.


----------



## Jake (Aug 31, 2012)

I know our deals haven't exactly gone smoothly between us Adam, but they all worked out and you're a genuinely good dude, and it sucks to see this stuff happen. hopefully he makes this right.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

717ctsjz said:


> I know our deals haven't exactly gone smoothly between us Adam, but they all worked out and you're a genuinely good dude, and it sucks to see this stuff happen. hopefully he makes this right.



I legitimately don't remember us having a bad deal, I just remember that you were a stand up guy and made good on our deal.


----------



## axxessdenied (Aug 31, 2012)

Wish I lived in Cali... I would go and say Hi to this guy


----------



## Jake (Aug 31, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I legitimately don't remember us having a bad deal, I just remember that you were a stand up guy and made good on our deal.


 It all worked out in the end, it just got a little rocky because I neglected to mention some damage which was completely my bad. But this situation your dealing with now is ridiculous


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm not specifically after the LTD, I want compensation for the Hellraiser, and I want the ilok for my protools disks.. And since he is admittedly unemployed, I don't want to wait around for compensation, since I especially don't want to deal with this kid any more than I have to. I thought I explained to him several times that I want compensation.. And I don't think it's hard to understand that I don't want to wait around for it.


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 31, 2012)

I'd say see if you can take him to small claims court, and then if he fails to pay you can file to garnish his wages (assuming he's working). Both of those things have minimal court costs and don't involve a lawyer. I'm assuming you can file at your local court house, since that's where the damage was noticed, but you'll probably have to serve him in his state. But I think that can be done fairly easily. I'm no lawyer, so take this all with a grain of salt, but I think that's all doable. Good luck. I hate hearing about stuff like this.


----------



## SirMyghin (Aug 31, 2012)

Well you have a contract (email contact can still be contractual) so civil law, or eating it (and letting him win) are your only real options. At this level a lawyer is not really a necessity either. People often forget even verbal contracts are binding (although they tend to be very hard to prove). It is the same reason I do not advise people on the finer points of say, modifying a load bearing structure in your house. My off the record conversation can actually be professionally binding...


----------



## flexkill (Sep 1, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> Basically from what he is saying publicly of Facebook, you will never see this guitar again man.



This just absolutely floors me. So does he say Adam will never see the LTD again because he(Wayward) feels he is justified and owes Adam nothing, or is he just saying, I know I fucked you over bro and I don't give a shit????

What a class act this dude is...wow!

EDIT: Not to go on a shitty rant or anything....but....lol. I love people who justify fucking people over because they happen to be in a shitty spot in their life. IE, Guy owes you money then said guy spends YOUR money, then when confronted says " I got bills and shit to man, am I supposed to go without cause I owe you money?" Classic. Ummm actually yes dickhead! I have always believed that if I owe someone money, that obligation comes first...then what ever you need to do comes after. /rant


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 1, 2012)

^Owing someone $ = bill. Some ppl.just don't see it that way.


----------



## crg123 (Sep 1, 2012)

Wow this kinda of scares me off, I was thinking about selling my macbook pro on here, but I'm having second thoughts now. That neck is terrible. I don't understand who doesn't properly package a guitar thats being shipped across statelines. I'm sorry man, hopefully this works out well for you.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 1, 2012)

crg123 said:


> Wow this kinda of scares me off, I was thinking about selling my macbook pro on here, but I'm having second thoughts now. That neck is terrible. I don't understand who doesn't properly package a guitar thats being shipped across statelines. I'm sorry man, hopefully this works out well for you.


Most people never have a problem man...don't let something like this scare you off. Adam sells and trades a lot! I bet he'd tell you himself that this is very rare around here.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 1, 2012)

You said it best, man - if you owe somebody, you pay them. That person has to pay bills as well, more than likely, and by spending THEIR money on your bills, you're spitting on them.

Anyway, this won't scare me away from trading in the future in the slightest. I'll do what I can to make this right in the mean time, though. I don't usually tolerate being wronged, and I don't feel that anybody should. You have to realize that most people do what real men do (the honorable thing) and not let a few ignorant people scare you away from doing what you want to do.


----------



## Michael T (Sep 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear this man. I honestly don't understand how someone can be such a douche.

I would take it to court.


----------



## VILARIKA (Sep 1, 2012)

This reminds me of a time I got scammed pretty badly. 

It gave me the worst feeling, knowing that the person you're talking to is lying straight to you. What's worse is that the person took pictures of what I sent him and decided to sell them as soon as he received them, then tried to convince me that the pictures he took were of his own belongings, and that he did not receive what I sent him.

Long story short, he took pictures of the items I shipped him, and then tried to tell me that they were his from before we were negotiating. Really? 

Damn, it kills me just thinking about it now. Learn from mistakes I guess. Sorry to hear you got caught in a situation like this Adam. People that do this kind of shit suck.


----------



## Scar Symmetry (Sep 1, 2012)

From what I can make out (and without arrogance, I'm pretty fucking astute), you are a top guy that doesn't deserve to have this shit pulled on you, but this kind of thing will occasionally happen.

At this point it looks like your only option may be chalk it up to experience, but if you can find a path to fight for this then by all means do that, because this douche without a doubt owes you at least small compensation and the iLok.

Processor = $$$
Guitar = $$$
iLok = ???

That's at least 3 reasons he owes you. On top of that, him just generally being a snake demands an apology for inconveniencing you like this.


----------



## mcd (Sep 1, 2012)

this is bad news bears duder! I don't know if anyone has mentioned it and i don't want to kick coals but, I have a suspicion that neck was fucked before it was shipped. Just saying


----------



## Necris (Sep 1, 2012)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Processor = $$$
> Guitar = $$$
> iLok = ???



iLok = The Cost of Pro Tools, and potentially the rest of the programs as well. Without the iLok you have a useless pile of disks.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 1, 2012)

Yeah they don't fuck around with piracy, and hence why iLok came out. IIRC you have to have the key saved to it and plugged into your computer to actually unlock the program, or something to that extent.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

So, I just figured something out... This dude agreed to send the LTD back to me on the 11th. He was perfectly cool with that. Then, on the 16th, he removed me from his friends list on Facebook and then put the LTD up for sale on his Wall:

"Selling a new LTD H-351nt. I just got it, and it's not really getting played at all since an got my new Jackson. It's only been played 2 times since zi got it and it's in pristine condition. It comes with a great gigbag. If you want it, I'll let it go for $500."

Later, in another post, when talking about the LTD, he said: 

"Yeah, but this thing is mint, and I mean mint."


........ Shady much? When I talked to him again, I was no longer his Facebook friend, so I couldn't see that he had it for sale, or had made these comments about the guitar being so clean (which was exactly as I had described it to him). In that particular conversation, he mentioned that the guitars I sent him weren't in the condition I described... Read here:

"Not to mention that the LTD you sent me for a (then) mint Hellraiser and around $700 (what i spent to buy them) worth of hardware and software, is covered in surface scratches and what appears to be light buckle rash on the back along with surface scratches."



"Yes, and send me a brand new condition cherry red LTD H-351NT and a brand new condition Jackson SLS3 with Dimarzio Dominions. We can play this game all day. You advertised falsely too, and there's no way in hell i put the damages on those guitars. I have numerous witnesses to that."


So, now that we can see that this kid doesn't appear to be being honest in the slightest, I am simply infuriated, and I'm not going to let this slide. It seems as though he attempted to turn the whole thing around on me as if I was somehow trying to rip him off or just milk him out of his money.. When in reality, he has seemingly been pulling funny business and dishonesty since this mess started, as evident in the previously provided quotes.


----------



## Watty (Sep 2, 2012)

In the age of the internet where people can get your name, address, etc. from a quick google or FB search, it really baffles me that people still try to pull this kind of crap.

I was actually thinking about PM'ing him about that computer awhile back...sorry it ended up being such a literal crapshoot.

I hope you get things to work out in the end (meaning you get some kind of compensation).


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

And, I also found the quote where he said he would get a case from his friend and ship the hellraiser in it - he did not say that he would "try" to get a case. So, not only could the damage have been avoided if he had done what he agreed to do, but he also now owes me a case, which means that he has not held up to his end of the deal.


----------



## Nile (Sep 2, 2012)

What an absolute cock.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

More:

"And if you would like compensation for surface scratches, .2Ghz that can easily be overclocked, and a broken guitar, then so be it. But if you're not sending me new guitars for the damages on the ones i recieved, i'm not sending you anything of the like that you listed. When you advertised those guitars to me, you said the LTD was in brand new condition, and said that i couldn't find i better condition SLS3 on the market. Both of those claims were false and and both of the guitars have damages. We're in the same boat, and i'm already out a lot more money than you are, friend."

Well... Funny thing here is, any one of you can go ahead and search the used market for a cleaner SLS3 that I sent him and you won't currently find one. Besides, that is a time-sensitive remark - at the time I traded that guitar to him, there was no other SLS3 on the used market.. Ha. Also, the LTD was perfectly clean, as stated on his Facebook wall. So, who is the bad guy?


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

AND, if you go on his Facebook page right now, you'll see that he is trying to sell some stuff, including some of the things I sent him, even though he had this to say to me... Oh, and prior to the following quoted comment, he had referred to the pickup and pedal in our original deal as "half" of the deal.. As if $150 worth of stuff was half of the deal... Right....

"And by almost half, i meant in number of items i recieved. It's all about money with you isn't it? I bet you're one of those guys that would do anything for a buck, aren't you? For a guy who claims to be a musician first, you sure don't seem like it. I bet you wanted that hellraiser just to make as much capital off of it as you could. And the mac? I already know you almost got rid of it, and that you were advertising it as the perfect recording laptop to the buyer, and actually claimed the 2.2Ghz was better than you're making it out to be to me. I honestly just don't understand you as a person. You're like a fucking musical salesman robot, and his only function is to sell and trade guitars."


----------



## Guitarman700 (Sep 2, 2012)

It usually seems like the guilty party is absent from these threads, and this is no exception. Not surprising, as he doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on here. What an absolute scumbag.


----------



## nothingleft09 (Sep 2, 2012)

Definitely not you Adam. I backed out of a trade with him awhile back for an LTD 8 String because he couldn't keep stories straight. No gig bag, gig bag, no scatches, scratches. It was always back and forth and I didn't quite get a good feeling about the dude. Some people just have to try and get over on people or their day isn't complete. Some just don't give a fuck. You on the other hand are a good dude, sometimes really busy, but a good dude. lol


----------



## Razzy (Sep 2, 2012)

I almost traded him a C-8 and a 5150 II for that Macbook Pro.

Here's what I got when I asked him the specs on the MBP.

"Intel Core i7 2.75Ghz, 2GB RAM (I think 2012 MBP come with 4), ATI Radeon HD 6750m 1GB, 750GB HD
And dude, if you can still offer that 5150ii and the C-8, I might take you up on it. I'm in DIRE need of an amp, and I might have a cab I can use."


----------



## Divinehippie (Sep 2, 2012)

this sucks man=/, i fucking hate scummy people who can't uphold a their end of a trade/deal/promise. people=shit. i hope you get this worked out dude, he should be banned, we really don't need people like this in the community >=(


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

Razzy said:


> I almost traded him a C-8 and a 5150 II for that Macbook Pro.
> 
> Here's what I got when I asked him the specs on the MBP.
> 
> ...




This is beautiful - an even greater exaggeration of the truth.. That certainly helps me case. I'll be getting in touch for a screen shot of that, if you would be so kind, my friend.


----------



## Razzy (Sep 2, 2012)




----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 2, 2012)

Thank you for that... And, here's another great thing I figured out: I went back through all of my conversations with him, and not once did I ever describe the condition of the Jackson I sent him. That said, I have a cut and dry case here, and I'm not very happy.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 2, 2012)

Razzy said:


>



Ohhhhh This dude is fucked!!!


----------



## Scar Symmetry (Sep 2, 2012)

Scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag scumbag.

Facebook abuse imminent.


----------



## Jakke (Sep 2, 2012)

Hmmm, last time I looked, "drowning in a pool of poverty" was not an acceptable excuse for fraud. Although I can imagine it's not fun.

You're a cool guy Adam, surprised anyone would want to screw you over


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 2, 2012)

Watty said:


> In the age of the internet where people can get your name, address, etc. from a quick google or FB search, it really baffles me that people still try to pull this kind of crap.
> 
> I was actually thinking about PM'ing him about that computer awhile back...sorry it ended up being such a literal crapshoot.
> 
> I hope you get things to work out in the end (meaning you get some kind of compensation).


 
Better technology =/= smarter people. 

And  @ all the screen shots. This is like when Lewinsky came out against Clinton. Now all the victims are surfacing. 



> He brought me into a PM and exposed himself... tried to... trade rape me...


----------



## metalstrike (Sep 2, 2012)

What a dick. 

Good luck with your situation man


----------



## Bekanor (Sep 2, 2012)

Ugh, this really gets under my skin because I hold the integrity and honesty of the trading community here in very high regard and this sort of parasite ruins that. 

This is one of the best places to buy and sell gear on the net because we as a community make it that way. It should be a source of pride to be a part of, not a pool of potential rubes to grift.


----------



## BlackWinds10 (Sep 3, 2012)

Dude this really fucking blows. I have a friend who is friends with Ryan, and my friend told me, theres pretty much no chance that he will send that guitar back.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

I got this broken schecter c-7
Friday at 3:55pm · Edited · LikeUnlike

<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748350 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R9"}'> We'd have a deal if you added a working guitar, too. 
Friday at 4:03pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748352 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R9"}'>I thought that was the going rate for them now?
Friday at 4:04pm · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748356 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R9"}'>Seems true enough, but i'm completely submerged in the pool of poverty, and can't do anything with a broken guitar that doesn't come with a working one.
Friday at 4:08pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748397 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R8"}' I was being facetious. Kinda bummed that you haven't sent this back to adam, and surprised you haven't got a letter for small claims court yet. Macbook pro and a piece of mahogany with emgs for that deal he gave you  and you wont even give him his guitar back. I would have sued you, Adam seems to be too calm of a dude.
Friday at 4:26pm · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748421 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R7"}'> I sent him more than just a laptop and a hellraiser. I sent him hundreds of dollars worth of stuff including pro tools, the entire logic suite, a recording interface and a midi musical keyboard. He just says he cant resell it all, so to him it's worth nothing. He traded me the LTD for all those extras AND the hellraiser. And he expects me to send him back the LTD and him just keep all the extras like he basically got them for free. The Macbook was for the soloist alone. The other shit was just added on at the end of the deal cause he wanted it.
Friday at 4:40pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748437 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R6"}'> See the thing is that Adam isn't telling anyone the whole true story. I've had 3 people so far talking to me about it that were missing very key details on my part of the story. Adam is making it out to people like i totally ripped him off and then wouldn't send his guitar back, when in reality he wants to keep the rest of everything i sent him for the LTD and leave me with a broken guitar, when he has DOZENS of guitars.
Friday at 4:46pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748448 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R5"}'>I gather is you owe him at least 250$ for the broken c-7, and like and i-lock or something.
Friday at 4:54pm · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748538 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R4"}'> I'm sending him the ilok and made that clear to him. But he wants me to send him a $500 guitar for a $250 broken guitar when the hellraiser was only a quarter of what i sent him for the LTD. I told him that i couldn't guarantee when, but i'd get him money for the broken guitar. But he, being prudish, reacted like a child and said, "No. I want my compensation now." I'm not fucking wealthy, you know? Even though $250 is hard to come by for me, i still offered to do what i must to get it for him. And he refuses. He will ONLY accept this LTD, because he wants to make as much profit as he can on this, not just $250.
Friday at 5:17pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748553 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R3"}'>he send you 100$, a crunchlab, and a ts9? I personally think that covers your "loss" if you sent him back the ltd man. But whatever its you're burden.
Friday at 5:21pm · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748709 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R2"}'> Those things were for the macbook too. The LTD was a whole seperate ordeal that was added on to the original deal.
Friday at 6:25pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80748719 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R1"}'> Hmm i guess i dont understand how it went from you sending it back to you deciding not to. I hear he offered you another 100$ to send it back so this can just be over also 
Friday at 6:33pm · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80749165 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R0"}'> He didn't offer me 100 dollars so i'd send it back, he told me he'd give it to me for shipping so i can ship right away, because i don't have money to ship. And he keep telling me he wants to send the hellraiser back when it's his and i've told him 4 times that i don't want it cause i can't do a single thing with it. 
Friday at 10:24pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_80749171 ufiItem ufiItem" data-ft='{"tn":"R"}'> And trust me, if i ever get the spare $250, i'll send it to him regardless of whether he likes it or not. I'm morally obliged to pay him back, but i'm not legally obliged to send him back an LTD that he'll make over $200 profit.
Friday at 10:26pm via mobile · LikeUnlike


EDIT.
This is fucked up Ryan, your actions made a fat statement.


----------



## Nile (Sep 3, 2012)

Wait wtf, he won't send it back because Adam has a shit ton of guitars that he has earned?


And isn't that Schecter fixable?


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

Nile said:


> Wait wtf, he won't send it back because Adam has a shit ton of guitars that he has earned?


 

Basically. Adam has been in the business a long time and has amassed a number of nice guitars. He is a very honest man and I'd recommend him to anyone though, he is very fair, and ships quickly and honestly.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

Maybe if he spent less money on Candy bars, He might have extra cash....just sayin.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

flexkill said:


> Maybe if he spent less money on Candy bars, He might have extra cash....just sayin.


 
Or atleast 6$ for insurance.


----------



## Nile (Sep 3, 2012)

guitar-rob89 said:


> Or atleast 6$ for insurance.



THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.


----------



## MJS (Sep 3, 2012)

What a piece of shit. His silence in this thread says a lot about him... since you know he's following it. 

He looks like he probably lives with his parents, so maybe you could call them and garnish his allowance.


----------



## Xaios (Sep 3, 2012)

MJS said:


> since you know he's following it.



If he is, then he's using a second account (which is a banning offense in itself), because his profile shows he hasn't logged on since August 24th.


----------



## MJS (Sep 3, 2012)

Or he might not be logging in... since he knows it would be mentioned here and that he'd be watched. But it would be cool if a mod could match another IP with the one he logged in from before.


----------



## Prydogga (Sep 3, 2012)

I want justice! This thread better not end up as a 'silverburst parker' 2.0


----------



## SenorDingDong (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't know, something about this kid's "Adam is a cheapskate money grubber" sob story rings false to me. Maybe it's because Adam has 62 totally positive proven trades on the site; maybe it's because the kid tried to sell off the guitar as soon as an issue was brought to his attention; maybe it's because Adam has NGDs that make it look as if he could buy and sell the LTD six times over, and cheapskates are notoriously... well, _cheap_; or maybe it might just be because the kid does not understand that damage sustained due to piss-poor packaging is 100% the sending party's fault, and their responsibility to rectify.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 3, 2012)

Well before I join the "CRUCIFY HIM!!!!" mob, I'd really love it if he logged in and told his side of things. I don't doubt Adam, but I always maintain a code of neutrality and facts when it comes to stuff. It's only right that wayward gives his take on things before everyone starts screaming for blood. 

From what I HAVE seen regarding the facebook posts, he is sounding like a complete douche.

I will say that if you send a guitar improperly packaged, you are still on the hook for it if it gets damaged. If you can't follow basic rules of trading, then just don't trade.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

His side of the story sustains that I want the LTD as compensation for the Hellraiser, even though the LTD was also traded for the extra software and stuff that he sent me.. This is unacceptable to him, because he seems to think I'm only out to turn a profit, from what I can tell. What baffles me is that it almost seems as though I'm being accused of selfishness for trying not to get screwed on this deal. You have to love it when you're sent on a guilt trip for rightly looking out for yourself. Anyway, he doesn't seem to understand that the Hellraiser is broken, AND the MacBook is in lesser condition than he stated, AND the processor in the MacBook is a cheaper version than its supposed to be, AND he owes me a case for the hellraiser, all while I completely held up to my end of the deal without falsely describing any part of it. All of those things add up to more value than the LTD is worth, so I thought it was rather generous of me to accept the LTD as compensation. Instead of accepting, he blocked me, and I'm not sure what the best way to attempt to make this right is at the moment. 

I have a copy of every conversational exchange between he and I. I'd be glad for him to come on here and justify his position, since I could either verify or disprove any part of his story by providing screenshots of our conversation, if necessary.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Also...

"...he wants to keep the rest of everything i sent him for the LTD and leave me with a broken guitar, when he has DOZENS of guitars."

...I'm sorry, but even if I owned every other guitar in the world, that doesn't mean that he doesn't owe me. This isn't socialism or communism. I almost can't even compute the logic that is required to produce this sort of comment.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 3, 2012)

Logic? That's called grasping at straws, sir. But this is turning into a bit of a bash fest.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Logic? That's called grasping at straws, sir. But this is turning into a bit of a bash fest.




I don't endorse the shit-flinging from everybody else. I'm not not trying to make the dude look bad, I'm just sharing the true story, which may hopefully inform somebody who may end up dealing with him in the future. However, as I said, I am unable to communicate with him, since he has made that difficult.


----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

I come to bring some info...

Wayward has been without internet for quite a while, sometimes he goes to a friend of his to access it, or he uses the internet he gets on a wal mart phone. he said he can't really access SSO. Since the whole deal was discussed on Facebook, it's not anyone's business so he got mad at everyone sending him hate mails and shit. That's also why he blocked Adam twice on facebook. He wants me to tell SSO that it's none of you guy's business, leave him the fuck alone.

Adam : he said he never promised the case, and that he had only said he'd try to get one from a friend, but that the friend couldn't give it to him (last minute info). I've read this thread and you haven't shown a proof that he did promise you such a case... before talking legal action, bring up some actual facts. You said you have backup of all the conversations you had, well show that. *Cause all the accusations in this thread come from this so-called proof no one has seen yet.* just sayin'...

He also said Adam refused to send a bunch of things because of the broken guitar. Deal break on both sides ? I'm not gonna judge, I'm just reporting the info. I haven't understood everything but I think Adam was supposed to send stuff, but didn't, and then did like 1 month later or something... if you have the impression the guy is bullshitting you, why did you still send your stuff ?

He told me he blocked Adam because he was tired of dealing with him. I guess that means the deal is over, unless you really wanna take it to court or some shit. Adam then opened a second facebook account and wayward calls it harassment (talking legal, right ?)

Since I'm kinda reporting what other people told me, I've heard that Adam already made deals telling his stuff was in "mint" condition and when the other recieved it, it had way more dings and scratches than "mint" condition. Earlier in this thread you called wayward shady, just saying he might not be the only one here. I'm still wondering, Adam if you have all the info to back up your accusations, why haven't you already taken this to court ? Seems like your backup info isn't as solid as you claim...

Well Adam, from wayward's point of view the deal seems to be over, I can still help you and talk to him cause he will answer to me. If it has to be court, let it be court, they'll end up getting all the facts straight and take the right decision, I'm not trying to tell everyone wayward is the most honest guy on earth and you're an ultimate asshole or anything, just that this shouldn't be discussed on here. Ok so I'm ready to get neg repped like fuck, I hope I helped in any way.


EDIT : Adam, he said *he's willing to pay back*, just take the damn money and buy whatever you want with it, the fact that you're asking for what he can't give you won't help. He also unblocked you, but apparently your settings won't let the message he tried to send you go through... shady?


----------



## Fiction (Sep 3, 2012)

A deal isn't over until both parties have upheld their parts of the deal, not when one party decides to block the other on facebook. 

(That only works in action films, but instead of blocking on Facebook it's a bullet to the head, but let's not get dramatic here )

A guitar was broken from laziness and ignorance on behalf of wayward, and he has not sent the iLok, so the deal is still going until Adam is compensated for the expected (not snapped in half) schecter and receives the iLok.

It's also a lot easier to try and get justice straight from wayward, before taking it straight to a small claims court. That's not a walk in, walk out, problem solved dealio.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

First of all, I never withheld Items from him at any point, I sent stuff to him and it never made it to him, so it had to be re-sent, and now he has it. Either way, it's a moot point because he has those things.

In regards to the hellraiser case, here is exactly what he said: 

Him: "I think I could get my hands on a hardshell case of some sort if you can wait a bit for me to get a box to ship it in from a guitar center or something. Oh, and i never asked, does the Jackson or LTD come with a case or gig bag of any sort?"

Me: "Jackson has a Jackson Hardshell, and LTD has a brand new gig bag that's actually pretty nice"

Him: "Cool. I'll grab a hsc from one of my buddies and send it in that."

....he didn't say he'd try, and he didn't send a message saying "hey, I couldn't get that case, sorry", it just showed up without one.

As for everybody sending him messages, I stated that I didn't support such a thing and I think it's unnecessary - while this is between Ryan and I, he blocked me from Facebook and has not logged on to Ss.org, so he disabled my ability to deal with him. I've done nothing but civilly negotiated with him, and I wasn't about to make yet another Facebook account just to message him again and get blocked.

And, there is no setting on my Facebook account that disables Ryan from sending me a message.. Even if there was, how would you call that shady, since he had blocked me altogether? The fact of the matter is, he either didn't try to send me a message, or he got a load error. He's more than welcome to discuss this with me - I have made it perfectly clear from the beginning of this ordeal that I would much rather settle this privately between Ryan and I. If that's not an option, I have every ounce of evidence to back up what I'm saying, but I think posting several pages of conversation between he and I is not necessary at this point.

For the record, I have never sent somebody something that wasn't as described and not compensated them for it - if somebody received a damaged item from me and never spoke up, I never had the chance to apologize or make it right, and that is no fault of mine.

As for the guitars I sent to Ryan, I can prove that I never once gave Ryan a description of the Jackson, and while I did describe the condition of the LTD as being in 9.8/10 condition in my ad for it, Ryan described it similarly in his ad (even though he posted it for sale just days after agreeing to send it back to me as compensation) seen here:


"Selling a new LTD H-351nt. I just got it, and it's not really getting played at all since an got my new Jackson. It's only been played 2 times since zi got it and it's in pristine condition. It comes with a great gigbag. If you want it, I'll let it go for $500."

...and again, later on:

"Yeah, but this thing is mint, and I mean mint."


So thank you for the insinuations, Nagash.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Also, you can call it arbitrary, but could you think of a good reason why somebody with a solid reputation like mine would state obvious lies over $1000 or less?


----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

You're just writing a conversation, what I mean is you could just be making everything up, I'd say anything less than a screenshot of your facebook/e-mail conversation doesn't have any value.

I told him he should have have told you he couldn't get the case, and yeah that's kind of a bad action on his side. 

About facebook, as I said he unblocked you, and if you further want to deal with him facebook should work again, if it doesn't just PM me and I'll copy/paste for him. This deal is kinda stinky and needs to get fixed properly, I'm trying to help.

wayward is a SSO buddy of mine, and I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of yours, but that's not really important. This problem took a crazy dimension because you opened a thread about it (although I understand you don't want anyone else to face the same problem, not blaming anything on you there) so it got kinda complicated. 

you didn't react to one thing : he said he'd pay you back cash to compensate for the broken guitar. that's the best he can do, since for the money you can just buy ANY model you want... why don't you just let him make the money, send it to you, case is closed and you never deal with him again ? sounds like the easiest thing to do, you can always get another used hellraiser from the money he promised you. Because he did say he's willing to pay you back.

As for someone with your rep lying about 1k... 1k is a lot of money, many people would do anything to get that, and I can't say I give the slightest fuck about anyone's rep on here. some people are super nice IRL and assholes on the internet, some guys are introverted IRL and have a famous internet character, you can never know. I try to stick with facts, so I need to get the whole puzzle back together from both sides.


----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

Nick, for once that I agree with you on anything serious... let's see if we can get this shit straight. I think both wayward and Adam are pretty damn butthurt about that accident.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

That you're not a fan of mine is inconsequential, if not only confusing, since I've never had an issue with you, but that's clearly a personal thing for you.

Ryan insulted me, backed out of agreements, and won't own up to the entirety of his faults in this deal, and even blocked me. Posting about the situation here is not very much out of line - though, I do agree that all of the hate mail that other people have supposedly sent Ryan is not called for, and out of line.

Ryan offered to give me some money for the Hellraiser when ever he has it, even though he is not currently employed. Considering that I have seen many holes and inconsistencies in his side of the story thus far, have been treated poorly by him, and have not been given what he agreed to send to me, I would have to be incredibly naive and gullible to expect him to give me money at any point in the future. I believe that this is a well informed position to take.

Further more, Ryan does not just owe me for the Hellraiser. He owes me for the following:

A Schecter Hellraiser C-7
A Hardshell case for said Schecter
The difference in value between a like-new MacBook Pro and the one he sent me
The difference in value between a 2.2ghz i7 and a 2.4ghz i7



Stand by for screen shots of the comments I referred to in my last post.

Also, if Ryan wants to communicate with me, tell him to send me a message - I will not keep sending him messages only to be blocked and treated like a scumbag.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Nagash said:


> . Since the whole deal was discussed on Facebook, it's not anyone's business so he got mad at everyone sending him hate mails and shit. That's also why he blocked Adam twice on facebook.



Hmmm... Well, I didn't post about this until he blocked me for a second time, so this is also a strangely inaccurate claim.


----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

ok. I don't know exactly how you want this to work out but I'll let you do it your way anyway. I told him to try to contact you again, and I think you should message him too. I told him to stay civilized 

I'm now officially out of this thread, I will check for screenshots though


----------



## SenorDingDong (Sep 3, 2012)

Nagash said:


> Nick, for once that I agree with you on anything serious... let's see if we can get this shit straight. I think both wayward and Adam are pretty damn butthurt about that accident.



Accident? Sure, the guitar. But did he _accidentally_ send a laptop in poorer condition than described and _accidentally_ send false specifications, which can easily be checked simply by turning the damn thing on? 




And the real reason I'm replying to anything at all in this thread is because you're trying to get on Adam's case for warning others about a terrible deal he had working with your "SSO buddy." That is totally acceptable--why _wouldn't_ Adam make sure no one else gets fucked by this kid? Mistake or not, don't wrap a guitar in tissue paper if you don't have a job to pay for the difference when it gets damaged during shipping. He could just as easily ship the guitar back--it would be cheaper than "paying back." But for whatever reason, he just doesn't want to do it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 3, 2012)




----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


> Accident? Sure, the guitar. But did he _accidentally_ send a laptop in poorer condition than described and _accidentally_ send false specifications, which can easily be checked simply by turning the damn thing on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well I haven't read the trade thread in detail... Adam could have asked for pics of the computer, if the processor was in the computer he could have checked the specs himself, if the processor was an extra pack he could have asked for pics (where the exact specs would have been written).

As for me defending wayward, *I SAID that I am on Adam's side* for opening this warning thread. And he doesn't want to ship the LTD back because he said "it's a $500-600 guitar for a $300 hellraiser". now if adam gets back in touch with him and they get the computer shit straight, I agree that sending the LTD back should more or less pay up for the differences in value Adam described above.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm only posting that picture just to hold up my end of that particular part of the story. I don't see it necessary to post anything else at this point.

Also, as I said before, it is not only the Hellraiser that must be replaced, and the LTD is worth less than everything that I should be compensated for.


----------



## Nag (Sep 3, 2012)

well then he should send you back the LTD in the first place, and THEN compensate the rest with money. it's your job to make him understand that. I'm out.


----------



## Nile (Sep 3, 2012)

He could at least send the iLok then worry about the other parts of the deal.


----------



## GuitaristOfHell (Sep 3, 2012)

Well not sure what you can do other than make a stink about it and letting us know he's not a reputable seller.

EDIT: BTW Sorry our deal for that Ibanez didn'y go as we had planned. At least you and I worked that out quickly. I got your back maybe you can take him to small claims court actually.


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 3, 2012)

GuitaristOfHell said:


> Well not sure what you can do other than make a stink about it and letting us know he's not a reputable seller.
> 
> EDIT: BTW Sorry our deal for that Ibanez didn'y go as we had planned. At least you and I worked that out quickly. I got your back maybe you can take him to small claims court actually.



As long as he doesn't take it to court (can't you also claim the court fees from the individual and therefore make his unemployed useless bum life even worse ). That aside, it is the principle not the price, letting things like this slide only means you lose.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

The deed isn't done yet, but he has agreed to send the LTD back to me


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 3, 2012)

Well if he hasn't had regular internet access (which I know firsthand how big of a pain in the ass that can be), then yeah I can see why he hasn't been able to check back. My vote is still for him coming in here and telling his side in it's entirety. The deal in and of itself is pretty complicated (at least when compared to 'send me your guitar and I'll send you mine'), so I can see where the possibility of things getting fucked up can arise. 

I still maintain that if you send a guitar that is improperly packaged, then you are still on the hook for it. This goes double if you fail to pay to have it insured. I also don't agree with people blowing up the guy's facebook on a situation that doesn't involve them. Let Adam and Ryan sort this out please.


----------



## ROAR (Sep 3, 2012)

Adam has truly dealt with the pork he's received.


----------



## VILARIKA (Sep 3, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Also...
> 
> "...he wants to keep the rest of everything i sent him for the LTD and leave me with a broken guitar, when he has DOZENS of guitars."
> 
> ...I'm sorry, but even if I owned every other guitar in the world, that doesn't mean that he doesn't owe me. This isn't socialism or communism. I almost can't even compute the logic that is required to produce this sort of comment.



When I read that comment, I just wanted to smack someone in the face.


----------



## Genome (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm just reading his profile.

I know he's not exactly done well for himself here, but does he really deserve comments like "Go die you disgusting fat piece of shit"?

Sheesh.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Absolutely not, and I think whoever said that should probably feel very ashamed. I don't care what somebody has done, that sort of attack is low. I am still waiting to hear back from Ryan concerning the details of our resolution, but it seems as though we've made progress.


----------



## BucketheadRules (Sep 3, 2012)

Wow, people have been posting that kind of stuff on his profile? That's awful.

I mean, he hasn't exactly done wonders for his reputation with this whole thing, but posting that kind of thing is fucking low.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Absolutely not, and I think whoever said that should probably feel very ashamed. I don't care what somebody has done, that sort of attack is low. I am still waiting to hear back from Ryan concerning the details of our resolution, but it seems as though we've made progress.



Yeah, some of the stuff on his profile is over the top but, This guy in no way deserves to be let off the hook. If he is not banned, I feel he should at the least not be allowed to buy/trade here anymore. Also the more that know about this fucked up transaction the better, for the safety of everyone else. He obvioulsy has been lying to more than one member about his wares.


----------



## straightshreddd (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah, this thread is deff gonna blacklist him here with all the vets. He should be banned or mods should give him a permanent sig that cannot be removed that has a link leading to this thread or something like that. Once this thread is buried, new members won't know who he is.


----------



## Bekanor (Sep 3, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Adam has truly dealt with the pork he's received.



I wish I would receive pork, I'm hungry.


----------



## Genome (Sep 3, 2012)

Bekanor said:


> I wish I would receive pork



I'm gonna give you a chance to rephrase that one buddy.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Sep 3, 2012)

Regardless of any possibly misunderstandings, anyone that would ship a guitar like that is an ass that will probably end up homeless in a few years without mommy and daddy's support. Not like anyone would want an employee like that.


----------



## MJS (Sep 3, 2012)

He said he'd send you the guitar back, but what about the iLock? 

They should definitely give him the boot here. Even if he ships the guitar AND iLock back, Adam still didn't get anything that matched the description he agreed to in the original deal... so Wayward still doesn't walk away from this as one of the good guys. 

Everything that went wrong was intentional and irresponsible on his end, from misrepresenting what he was offering, to not securely shipping the guitar like he said he would. 

If he's had enough internet access to post all that crap on Facebook, he's had enough internet access to get things resolved quickly... so I don't see why anyone would cut him any slack at all over the limited access excuse. 

Especially since you know he would have found a way to get online and deal with things instantly if _he_ had been the one on the receiving end of a pile of garbage. 

Anyway... hope he actually ships the guitar (and iLock) back and not just saying that to get people off his back for a while.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

*Next user to leave a BS comment on Wayward's profile, or an attacking rep is getting a VERY long nap. 

Wayward fucked up, and while was handling it quite poorly, seems to be interested in making things right. 

Threads like this are meant to accomplish two things: help facilitate the wronged member be made whole, and to point out someone that shouldn't be traded with in the future. Abuse is NOT going to be condoned, no matter what. 

You guys should really be ashamed, as Adam himself has said, as not only is it not constructive and childish, but can also negatively effect Adam if he did wind up having to escalate this to a court case. *


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

straightshreddd said:


> Yeah, this thread is deff gonna blacklist him here with all the vets. He should be banned or mods should give him a permanent sig that cannot be removed that has a link leading to this thread or something like that. Once this thread is buried, new members won't know who he is.



Or folks can use the iTrader system as it's intended. 

EDIT: Which I see still hasn't been done.


----------



## MFB (Sep 3, 2012)

But with this there's so much to it that leaving an 80 word comment on it might be tough to fill everyone in. There's the space for additional comments but that's only viewable to seller, buyer and you guys - the Mod Team. This seems reminiscent of the whole spiel with UggImKyle or whatever his name was and IIRC, he's been banned at the moment for screwing member(s) over no?

Not trying to challenge the mods to a public fight to the death, just seems like iTrader is a bit more like a slap on the wrist


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Or folks can use the iTrader system as it's intended.
> 
> EDIT: Which I see still hasn't been done.


Also, Adam may feel hesitant to leave bad Itrader feed back in fear that WayWard may leave negative shit on his. That wouldn't be right.

If people where to just solely go off of Itrader, they would see he(Adam) had less than 100% and this could turn some people away when not warranted.


----------



## Bekanor (Sep 3, 2012)

Genome said:


> I'm gonna give you a chance to rephrase that one buddy.



Oh dear. I meant actual pork, not some guy's baloney pony.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

MFB said:


> But with this there's so much to it that leaving an 80 word comment on it might be tough to fill everyone in. There's the space for additional comments but that's only viewable to seller, buyer and you guys - the Mod Team. This seems reminiscent of the whole spiel with UggImKyle or whatever his name was and IIRC, he's been banned at the moment for screwing member(s) over no?
> 
> Not trying to challenge the mods to a public fight to the death, just seems like iTrader is a bit more like a slap on the wrist



No one takes iTrader seriously because no one uses it properly. Would you buy something from someone that has a ~80% feedback rating? 

I'll have no problem keeping this thread up, nor will I hesitate to ban him. 

A link to this thread is way less than 80 words by the way. 

As for the situation with Kyle, he didn't try to rectify the situation, not once but twice, and then made a troll account. Once again, properly filing out iTrader early on could have potentially stopped a second user from getting screwed.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

flexkill said:


> Also, Adam may feel hesitant to leave bad Itrader feed back in fear that WayWard may leave negative shit on his. That wouldn't be right.
> 
> If people where to just solely go off of Itrader, they would see he(Adam) had less than 100% and this could turn some people away when not warranted.



If Wayward made retaliatory iTrader feedback he'd be instantly perma-banned per the forum rules and Alex will delete the improper feedback, typically within 24 hours. 

This isn't the first time this has happened.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If Wayward made retaliatory iTrader feedback he'd be instantly perma-banned per the forum rules and Alex will delete the improper feedback, typically within 24 hours.
> 
> This isn't the first time this has happened.



Oh sorry, I thought Itrader couldn't be fooled with. Thought I read that somewhere...anyway cool deal.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

I feel as if I should take part blame for the insults being aimed at Wayward considering I posted a conversation of his with Adam onto this thread.
Wayward is a friend of mine but I only felt it necessary because at the time, to my understanding, Adam didn't have any contact with him. It was just an update.
However, I do not by any means condone the "assault" of him, I talked to him earlier and he told me how many members have threatened to "pay him a visit" and what not. He didn't tell me any names but he did tell me that and is somewhat nervous.

I apologize to Wayward, and anyone else..

I also apologize to adam for his bad luck on this deal. It sucks. I'm sorry all.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

flexkill said:


> Someone has to live near this guy. A visit may need to be arranged.



Well I did post this on the first page of the thread. I in no way meant "Visit" as in physical harm. Just to get the situation rectified. Most of these types of people feel they are safe from behind their keyboard. When they start realizing that they might not be....they are more likely to make the situation right.

:EDIT: Again when I say safe, I mean safe from any backlash from their cowardly act.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

There is a difference between pressuring someone to do the right thing, and being abusive and threatening. The latter of which can get this site, and in some cases, it's users in trouble. Just something to be aware of. 

I'm in no way condoning anything Wayward has done.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There is a difference between pressuring someone to do the right thing, and being abusive and threatening. The latter of which can get this site, and in some cases, it's users in trouble. Just something to be aware of.
> 
> I'm in no way condoning anything Wayward has done.


I understand.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There is a difference between pressuring someone to do the right thing, and being abusive and threatening. The latter of which can get this site, and in some cases, it's users in trouble. Just something to be aware of.
> 
> I'm in no way condoning anything Wayward has done.


 
I still feel as if I am somewhat responsible for the threats. Not flex. I copied and pasted his conversation, not him.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

You did the right thing, in my opinion at least, trying to give solid info and establishing contact.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up, Max - Flexkill was right in his assumption that I was afraid that wayward might retaliate and mar my perfect feedback score.

Now, as of 10 hours ago, Wayward agreed to send the LTD back to me as compensation... Just an hours ago, however, he sent this message to me:

"I had gathered my family together and called over my band mates and some other friends and had a discussion, like you did on SSO, about what i should do. I've come to the conclusion that you were wrong to publicly post private affairs on a forum that the deal was not made on. I've been harassed over a dozen times because of it, lost friends because of it, and had several members insult me because of it, and i couldn't even get on and defend myself. I've come to the decision and was advised by several of my family and peers that i should keep the LTD. I'm backing out of this deal, and it's fine because nothing has been done yet and nothing has been sent or recieved. I have nothing to offer me since you won't wait for me to set funds to pay you. My reputation on SSO is ruined and you can tell them to ban me because i won't be coming back. I wish you the best of luck with future endeavors. I have nothing else to say on this subject, and i'm completely done with it. Goodbye."


----------



## Razzy (Sep 3, 2012)




----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Thanks for the heads up, Max - Flexkill was right in his assumption that I was afraid that wayward might retaliate and mar my perfect feedback score.
> 
> Now, as of 10 hours ago, Wayward agreed to send the LTD back to me as compensation... Just an hours ago, however, he sent this message to me:
> 
> "I had gathered my family together and called over my band mates and some other friends and had a discussion, like you did on SSO, about what i should do. I've come to the conclusion that you were wrong to publicly post private affairs on a forum that the deal was not made on. I've been harassed over a dozen times because of it, lost friends because of it, and had several members insult me because of it, and i couldn't even get on and defend myself. I've come to the decision and was advised by several of my family and peers that i should keep the LTD. I'm backing out of this deal, and it's fine because nothing has been done yet and nothing has been sent or recieved. I have nothing to offer me since you won't wait for me to set funds to pay you. My reputation on SSO is ruined and you can tell them to ban me because i won't be coming back. I wish you the best of luck with future endeavors. I have nothing else to say on this subject, and i'm completely done with it. Goodbye."


 

Ok.. Is it wrong if I somewhat feel worse, yet also feel as if I should retract my public apology???


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

For starters, it wasn't your fault, Robbie. You didn't have anything to do with people sending any sort of message to Wayward, you just helped by providing a conversation that I was blocked from being able to see.

Also, without expressing my disappointment or anything else just yet.... It is beyond baffling that he doesn't think this deal was conducted on this site. I mean, this website isn't a physical place where deals take place, so in that regard, no deal has ever taken place on SS.org... But I have a link to his ad, and photo-captures of conversation between he and I that clearly illustrates the fact that the deal between he and I very much was conducted through this site... but I'm not sure how that is supposed to make any difference anyway.


----------



## MFB (Sep 3, 2012)

Looks like you're going to have to bring out the big guns as he's fully admitted to not sending back the guitar which DOES violate a contract you guys agreed upon, along with the other eight-bajillion things that happened here


----------



## MJS (Sep 3, 2012)

Way to go... the piece of garbage lived up to every single negative comment anyone said about him--a_nd then some._  

If you can swing the cash/time, he really is just begging for legal action and he's stupid enough to bury himself in writing. 

I'd have a hard time believing he doesn't live with his parents and that they wouldn't be the one paying off his legal problems... maybe that will be the kick in the ass they need to do something about how useless their kid has turned out to be.


----------



## ElRay (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm not sure if this was addressed, but I'd definitely start with the Post Office. This seems like it would fall under mail fraud to me.

Ray


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 3, 2012)

MJS said:


> Way to go... the piece of garbage lived up to every single negative comment anyone said about him--a_nd then some._



One could argue that if folks, such as yourself, decided to keep out of it and not send him negative rep/comments he wouldn't be driven to think that there was no going back. The fewer options someone perceives themselves as having the higher the likelihood of that person just saying "fuck it" and doing exactly what that recent quote implies. 

Trust me, I've seen plenty of shit like this go down on here, and the more abusive the peanut gallery the less likely anything constructive really happens. 

Perhaps next time, those not involved in the matter should remain as such.  

Depending on how things turn out over the next 24 to 48 hours, Wayward will be perma-banned. I just want to leave a channel open for a little longer in the hopes some positive resolution may occur.


----------



## Xaios (Sep 3, 2012)

So Adam, do the lawyers get unleashed at this point?


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 3, 2012)

Thank you for pointing all of that out, Max.

However, the strange (though not surprising) part is, earlier today he said that he was willing to settle this ordeal with me because he has been getting so many bothersome messages from people.. Now, that same reason is why he is NOT willing to settle this ordeal, so I think it might be less than astute to say that solid logic is at play here. Either way, hate never truly creates a peaceful resolution.......


----------



## MJS (Sep 3, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> One could argue that if folks, such as yourself, decided to keep out of it and not send him negative rep/comments he wouldn't be driven to think that there was no going back. The fewer options someone perceives themselves as having the higher the likelihood of that person just saying "fuck it" and doing exactly what that recent quote implies.



But didn't he really do it to himself on his own by lying and ruining the deal in the first place, before the comments were even left, or this thread even existed -- since Adam tried to resolve it before coming here and making it public? 

Especially since he didn't even start to (pretend to) agree to make things right until he felt pressure. Right?

While it might not have helped, I'd say he did what he did because he's a bad person, regardless of which excuse he decided to go with at the end of the day. 

Now, if Adam didn't try resolving things on his own and just came here to bash him and get people to gang up on him, then yeah... that definitely wouldn't help and it would be harder for us to know how he would have handled things on his own. 

----------------

On a brighter note, after looking at the pics again (and assuming you didn't send the broken guitar back, if I missed that)...

Couldn't that be repaired and sold to get a little money back out of the deal? Or even kept, if you don't mind the repair and still want the guitar? It definitely wouldn't make things right, but I guess it's better than using it as firewood.


----------



## Stealthtastic (Sep 3, 2012)

Obviously the comments were made before the thread.
The thread was made after he blocked adam. Thus the reason the comments were posted.


----------



## Nile (Sep 3, 2012)

I feel like an asshole after posting my hate message on his rep, as it was a spur of the moment thing.

But fuck me if he agrees to send the LTD back then hours later backs out!!


----------



## jwade (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm stunned after reading this whole thread. If I were you, OP, I would've already gathered all of the evidence against the guy and headed to small claims court. It shouldn't cost you anything, other than taking a day or two off of work. You should be able to get not only your guitar back, but the ilock key, and compensation for the laptop. 

It seems that you have a pretty substantial amount of proof against this guy, but the longer you wait, the less likely it'll be that you'll get anything out of it.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 3, 2012)

IMHO that dude was never going to send that guitar back. In my mind he feels justified in keeping it because "Adam has a bunch of guitars and he's poor so he deserves to keep it". Totally classless and ignorant. Adam good luck my man, but honestly if I where you at this point, I'd probably write it off and be done with this Troll! Sorry man it really sux.


----------



## Brill (Sep 4, 2012)

Ive been following this thread for a while now. I think its a bit strange that he gathered freiends and family, and the result was to keep the guitar? 
Really though. There isnt much you can do,id go see a lawyer about it, just to see what can be done.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 4, 2012)

Well from a moral perspective/ person with dignity the right thing to do would be to make it right and that is how a lot of people feel about deals (making the honorable decision). However, considering the bridge has been burned here for him to sell gear and the repercussions felt elsewhere will likely be minimal he made the fiscally rational choice (assuming this doesn't go to court or nothing comes of that). At this point even if he resolved it nobody here would buy/sell to him. (risky)

That being said I agree, I think he never intended to give him back the LTD as he'd be getting a bum deal. It would be a bum deal because of his own irresponsible actions, but a bum deal nonetheless. 

Trading that much stuff at once is rather complicated.


----------



## Guitarmiester (Sep 4, 2012)

Scary to think that not only he thought his decision to keep everything was ok, but that the supposed friends and family all thought the same, too. 

Does this mean _A Dummies Guide to Parenting_ books need to be re-written?


----------



## Necris (Sep 4, 2012)

I'd say it's about time to get the ball rolling on the legal end of things. You have all of the evidence in your favor, but if you wait too long all you're going to have is a broken guitar, a laptop not as described, a useless pile of discs and a group of guitarists on an online forum who think you're right.



Guitarmiester said:


> Scary to think that not only he thought his decision to keep everything was ok, but that the supposed friends and family all thought the same, too.
> 
> Does this mean _A Dummies Guide to Parenting_ books need to be re-written?



I feel it can be guaranteed that they got a story that was very different from the reality of the situation.


----------



## pink freud (Sep 4, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> "I had gathered my family together and called over my band mates and some other friends and had a discussion, like you did on SSO, about what i should do. I've come to the conclusion that you were wrong to publicly post private affairs on a forum that the deal was not made on. I've been harassed over a dozen times because of it, lost friends because of it, and had several members insult me because of it, and i couldn't even get on and defend myself. I've come to the decision and was advised by several of my family and peers that i should keep the LTD. I'm backing out of this deal, and it's fine because nothing has been done yet and nothing has been sent or recieved. I have nothing to offer me since you won't wait for me to set funds to pay you. My reputation on SSO is ruined and you can tell them to ban me because i won't be coming back. I wish you the best of luck with future endeavors. I have nothing else to say on this subject, and i'm completely done with it. Goodbye."



Let me translate that for you:

"You made my fuck-up public and now everybody knows that I fucked up, so fuck you."

Here's a quick google: How to File an out of State Small Claims Suit | eHow.com

Unfortunately, unless you guys live really close, travel expenses would cost more than monetary award most likely.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 4, 2012)

pink freud said:


> "You made my fuck-up public and now everybody knows that I fucked up, so fuck you."


Ohhh so much this.


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 4, 2012)

That's weird of him to say/do. First of all, I don't believe he assembled a "family meeting," but even if he did ask his friends and family, he just gave them his side of the story. And so of course they'd side with him.
And I for one would have no ill feelings toward him if he did the right thing. I think that's the case for most people. Lord knows I've screwed up enough thugs in my life, but an apology and trying to make things right usually do the trick. Running from it never does.


----------



## Brill (Sep 4, 2012)

Why does he think that adam is a money crazy maniac? It makes no sense... Where did he hesr that adam had alreafy sokd the mac? 
Im really intrested in hearing his side of the story... Just to see where his mind is at.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 4, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> August 10Ryan Mahoney
> That guitar i sent to adam was broken when it arrived and now i don't know what he's going to do. I could be a dick and not send any of his stuff back, but he'll probably leave me bad feedback, and trading on SSO would be hell.



FAIL


----------



## Xaios (Sep 4, 2012)

Every time I think that there's another side to this coin, more info gets posted which shows just how badly Wayward has handled the situation. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Sep 4, 2012)

so let me get this straight, adam recieved a completely broken guitar because of waywards lack of packing material and adam sent him 2 near mint guitars + a ts9 a CL and $100 and wayward still thinks hes entitled to keep the ltd?
what kind of fucked reasoning is that? it really says alot about him if hes willing to dick adam out of a guitar that he owes him.

im not sure if it would be worth it for you to file a claim against him but i sure as shit know thats what i would do.

EDIT: if he got the jackson in he trade too why does he want the ltd so bad if hes just going to sell it like adam was trying to do?


----------



## SenorDingDong (Sep 4, 2012)

The line in that whole conversation that stuck with me was "...brutally refused my offer."


How can you brutally refuse? Did he email a fist or a shotgun shell or something along with the refusal? 




Anyway, I hope everything gets solved, Adam--I don't know you well, but I've been posting here for a bit and have seen your posts around and NGDs and you've always seemed like an upstanding guy. Sucks that this shit happened to you.


----------



## squid-boy (Sep 4, 2012)

My friend Andrew would have a baseball bat method of solving this. EDIT: It's a joke. 

Wayward, if you're reading this, then you should know: You're fucked on here, anyhow. No matter if you pay Adam back in cash or with something of equal value. Your reputation is fucked. Period. No one will want to do business with you if they have to pull teeth to receive/retrieve what they're either legally or morally entitled to. On another note, *MAN THE FUCK UP,* and admit that you're in the wrong.


----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)




----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)




----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm trying my best to explain this to him but I don't think I'm getting through, man.

When you two were negotiating the deal he had problems with it, and I didn't think it was even going to go through. I should've said something at that point to you and then none of this shit would have even happened.

I guess that's why they say hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 4, 2012)

Christ. Well I've been holding out on doing the lynch mob thing, but Ryan has just pretty much dug his own grave. Since he skimped on the insurance, he is still on the hook for the guitar. Therefore Adam HAS EVERY RIGHT to pick an alternate form of compensation. Telling someone "I'll pay whenever I get the money" is unacceptable as is trying to flip ADAM'S guitar (because it's still Adam's until Ryan has paid for it in full, which he has not) is a pretty telling clue that he has no intention of rectifying things and trying to make them right. 

And where the fuck is the iLok? How hard is it to send something the size of a flash drive in the mail? Sending discs you can't use is the same as not sending them at all. 
The only thing that Ryan seemed to halfway make good on was the macbook, and even that was still fucked up, and it wasn't as was described.

Ryan dude, seriously, wtf is wrong with you man? The ltd is NOT yours, because you haven't finished paying for it. Give that shit back, send the ilok with it, and recompensate some of the money you charged Adam for the fucked up macbook. Make good on it and be a man about this shit, not a fucking five year old. Christ.


----------



## The Uncreator (Sep 4, 2012)

This whole ordeal sucks, hope it gets resolved for you quick man.


----------



## Mayhew (Sep 4, 2012)

Anybody know how old this guy is? He sounds quite immature about it all like a typical douchey teenager who can't see when they're in the wrong. This is the lasting impression He is making. Many people forget that EVERYTHING you put on the Internet is permanent and Wayward has foolishly left a permanent record that clearly shows his wrong doing and failure to live up to a deal he agreed to. Seems like Adam is the only one out of the two who's being an adult about this.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 4, 2012)

It sounds to me like he is banking on Adam doing nothing. In that case, Adam, PLEASE take this guy to court. I'm pretty sure (depending upon state laws) that the cost of court fees can be included in the final judgment. But please don't allow yourself to be victimized like this. People that screw other people over always bank on the victim not standing up for themselves and Ryan made it pretty clear with his own words that's EXACTLY what he's doing. He is hoping that the court costs and travel expenses are too high and that he can keep the ltd because of it.

Nope. What will happen is that Adam will incur thousands of dollars in more debt, sue your ass (if you're over 18, then you are definitely on the hook for it. If under 18, then your parents will have to pay for it), and in addition to getting recompensation for the items, he will also have you pay for EVERY single cost incurred in legal fees. You'd be out thousands and thousands of dollars, when it costs like $30 max to ship the guitar back. If you wanna talk monetary value, even if he were to send everything back including the macbook, he'd still only be out a grand. Much better than being out about five or so grand when you total the legal fees.

So again, the best way for Ryan to still come out slightly better on this horrible deal is for him to just send all that shit back. But please Adam, don't let this guy pull one over on you. Don't be "the good guy" and allow yourself to be fucked over. That's exactly what this guy is hoping you do.


----------



## Genome (Sep 4, 2012)

Also, LOL at the troll who thanked his Macbook thread in the middle of all the neg rep.


----------



## MikeH (Sep 4, 2012)

In total agreement with Jessica on this one. He's trying the "I think he's just gonna let it blow over if I'm a big enough dick" tactic, which is unacceptable. He fucked up, so make a man out of him and sue his ass. No sense in being screwed out of money/gear because some kid doesn't realize the implications of his actions.


----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)




----------



## Lirtle (Sep 4, 2012)

What a waste of life.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 4, 2012)

Razzy said:


> Pic



Well clearly someone has NO FUCKING CLUE how trades work. It's because of people like him that I refuse to use the marketplace, despite some very tasty deals there. He has no idea how the business term "assets" works clearly because a guitar still has a monetary value. Just because it isn't cash doesn't mean it is worthless. A broken guitar that doesn't work however, is pretty worthless. At best you can gut it and sell off parts. 

Also cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Projecting the whole "you're all over the place" when you do the "i'm not sending the guitar. Hey, I already said I'd send the guitar back." thing doesn't work too well and makes you look like an ass. 
Again, Adam has the legal right to dictate the compensation for the guitar if you break the terms of the original deal. If he doesn't want cash and just wants the guitar back, then you have to send the guitar back. That's how it works. If you don't want the guitar, JUST SEND IT BACK. It's not "giving it away", it's called making good on a mistake that you made when you were too poor to add another $6 for insurance. If you can't pay for proper shipping and insurance, DON'T TRADE.

The rest is just b.s. rationalizing because he realizes he is in the wrong and wants to try and make a few bucks of his own off of doing Adam dirty. The argument that "well Adam has a BUNCH of guitars and I have just this one" doesn't work because the capitalistic system upon which Ryan used to acquire a guitar in the first place dictates that people can have as many guitars as they want and still buy/trade for more. The fact of the matter is that Ryan owes Adam a working guitar because Ryan received a working guitar. A few dings on an otherwise awesome working LTD is NOT the same as a completely useless C7. Had Ryan gotten the LTD with a few dings and Adam got a minty C7, then Adam would be liable for any and all damages to that ltd that were not as described in the original deal.

Again, Ryan is trying to immaturely justify his irresponsibility on this whole deal.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 4, 2012)

Anyone who resorts to technicalities to win an argument or justify there actions is already in the wrong and they themselves typically know it.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 4, 2012)

Also, he is basically a admitting that he wants to sell the guitar for more than what he owes and make some extra cash on the side. 

Is it possible for everyone just to send it all back to each other? If he wants to pay cash and he is trying to sell the guitar where he will end up with cash why not cut out the middle man and just give it back. He is not a very rational person.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Sep 4, 2012)

I feel guilty that these threads are good reads. Sorry for your pain in the ass OP - what a dick this guy is. Typical spoiled ass teenager.


----------



## VILARIKA (Sep 4, 2012)

Genome said:


> Also, LOL at the troll who thanked his Macbook thread in the middle of all the neg rep.



Total accident. I was in quite the rage from what I was reading, thus the thanked rep happened. I spent a good 5 minutes trying to undo it


----------



## Pav (Sep 4, 2012)

This all boggles my mind. This kid is so desperately broke that he can't even fully pay for the shipping, let alone insure the goods? Why is he trying to trade expensive merchandise instead of, I don't know, selling a piece here or there to stop himself from "drowning in poverty?" Personally, I wouldn't feel remotely comfortable trying to pull off such an exchange of valuables if I had no tangible funds. How old is this guy?


----------



## djpharoah (Sep 4, 2012)

Not getting involved but something that caught my interest is how does someone have a MBP 15" and at the same time drowning in poverty?


----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Not getting involved but something that caught my interest is how does someone have a MBP 15" and at the same time drowning in poverty?


----------



## Jakke (Sep 4, 2012)

Someone had to:



*DISCLAIMER* The song title is in no shape or form an encouragement to member Wayward to continue to act like a child. Neither are we related in any way. That is all.


----------



## The Uncreator (Sep 4, 2012)

He's just outright lying. Trust me, in times of serious need acquiring gear is not even an option.

I sold three Ibanez's, A washburn Dime signature, A Dean Schenker V, Jackson soloist, and another Ibanez bass just to get out of extreme poverty....temporarily. Everything I owned gone, had no guitar for about a month when my family helped me get a used SC 207 for $250.

The thought of merely trying to acquire anything else during that time was outrageous. He may be poor, but he has no idea how bad it could be because his parents provide for him. Somewhere someone mentioned he had no job, yet he has an internet connection and 15 candybars in one picture? I have a strong feeling hes still at home.


----------



## Genome (Sep 4, 2012)

VILARIKA said:


> Total accident. I was in quite the rage from what I was reading, thus the thanked rep happened. I spent a good 5 minutes trying to undo it



Hey, I thought it was funny!


----------



## Razzy (Sep 4, 2012)

He's now deleted the entire post with our discussion on it. Good thing I took screenshots.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Sep 4, 2012)

Razzy said:


> He's now deleted the entire post with our discussion on it. Good thing I took screenshots.


Sounds like par for the course. :golf:


----------



## flexkill (Sep 4, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Not getting involved but something that caught my interest is how does someone have a MBP 15" and at the same time drowning in poverty?


Maybe he conned or stole it from someone. This kid is a real piece of work and reading his comments on those Facebook captures was really making me want grab this kid and shake him in to reality !

EDIT: Also, does this kid not think his reputation is worth more than this LTD guitar? I would think this alone would be more than enough incentive to just send Adam HIS damn guitar back.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 4, 2012)

I want to share something here. This is the "brutal" way in which I turned down his offer to pay me when he got the funds together: 

"I want compensation now, you have proven to be extremely difficult to deal with and have come up with every reason to paint me as a bad guy when I've done nothing but respectfully communicated to you and tried to make right what is wrong on my end of a deal. I don't want to deal with you anymore than you want to deal with this mistake, but that's just how it is I guess. If you send me the ltd, I will send you the hellraiser, and your protools CDs. That is an honestly fair offer, considering originally I wasn't set to send those things to you. For that matter, I'll even cover your shipping costs."

(note: I sent this message when I was still under the false assumption that I had inaccurately described the guitars that I sent to him, in which case I was willing to make up for it... However, a simple review of the actual conversations between he and I reveal that I accurately described the instruments and am at no fault. Just wanted to clarify)

Real brutal, huh? 

If anything, I was brutally refused after that particular offer when he said "I have come to a decision" and then blocked me. 

Anyway, I'm wondering about something - is there any legal action that can be taken against me for having posted this thread and the comments I've added to it? I have used professional language, truthful talking points, and only posted this here because the whole ordeal transpired after I initially responded to an ad that was posted on this site. I am 99% certain that I've done nothing illegal, but I want to hear it from somebody that knows a little more about it. *PM me if you know anything about this.*


----------



## The Uncreator (Sep 4, 2012)

I think you're good as the deal was done on this forum. I don't think there is any 'expectation of privacy' considering he could sell on the site and you weren't contractually obligated to stay silent.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 4, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> Ryan got his macbook pro and will always be in poverty cause he is a 20 year old full sail dropout.


He is 20!??? WOW!


----------



## Pav (Sep 4, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> Ryan got his macbook pro and will always be in poverty cause he is a 20 year old full sail dropout.



 @ Full Sail


----------



## Mayhew (Sep 4, 2012)

Pav said:


> This all boggles my mind. This kid is so desperately broke that he can't even fully pay for the shipping, let alone insure the goods?



I lol'd when I read that he was $2 short on the shipping itself and had to beg them to take less. Funny that he was above begging for the cheap ass insurance though.

Also lol at doing deals and having conversations on the internet and then being surprised when it ends up on... THE INTERNET!


----------



## Guitarmiester (Sep 4, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Anyway, I'm wondering about something - is there any legal action that can be taken against me for having posted this thread and the comments I've added to it? I have used professional language, truthful talking points, and only posted this here because the whole ordeal transpired after I initially responded to an ad that was posted on this site. I am 99% certain that I've done nothing illegal, but I want to hear it from somebody that knows a little more about it. *PM me if you know anything about this.*



You're fine. It's the equivalent to word of mouth. You didn't go out of your way to purposely ruin an individuals reputation based on lies or a personal attack to bring someone down. The kid has been doing nothing but fishing for excuses to convince himself he hasn't done anything wrong. 

Buying, selling, or trading is like you're operating under your own business. Customer service is vital. Without it, nobody can last. And you certainly can't expect or make customers keep quiet when they've had poor service. My education and experience is not nearly as versed in law as it is business and finance, but can't think of any reason to consider anything you've done illegal.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Sep 4, 2012)

You just did a little investigation work. If thats illegal then this isnt America. And you've discouraged anyone sending him messages. So that would be on them. And there is nothing that can be done to them either. If talking crap on facebook or a forum is illigal, half the country would be in the pen.


----------



## MJS (Sep 4, 2012)

Yeah, he's the only one that should be fearing legal action at this point... and I'm really hoping those fears become a reality.


----------



## hairychris (Sep 5, 2012)

"Poverty" is no excuse for being a dick. Neither is being 20. 

I really hope that it all sorts out.


----------



## themike (Sep 5, 2012)

I need to come into the Off-Topic section more, this is insane.

Good luck Adam, you were a tolerable dude to deal with in our trades


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 5, 2012)

The Uncreator said:


> ...in times of serious need acquiring gear is not even an option.




/thread


----------



## dooredge (Sep 5, 2012)

Adam, sorry about you having to deal with all of this. I had the whole mishap with THEE HAMMER on here when he poorly packed a Titan Custom 200 and it ended up at my door step damaged. 

There's nothing that pisses me off more then seeing a fellow musician get fvk'd by some smarmy asshole who refuses to do the right thing. I hope you get what you're owed. I never did, so unfortuntately unless you pursue legal measures, don't count on it (Captain Obvious, I know).


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 5, 2012)

hey man really hope things turn out decent for you
this is a crazy situation, and its things like these that keep me from ever trading with someone i dont know


----------



## flint757 (Sep 5, 2012)

Yeah I definitely prefer cash transactions, easier to resolve. Trades can get messy if they go bad.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 5, 2012)

I assure you all that trades are just as safe as cash transactions. I've done more than 200 trades and only a few of them have gone bad.. And even then, I managed to get everything straight. Don't be discouraged.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 5, 2012)

i've done plenty of cash trades do those count?

and dude, do you hit any CL deals out your way? like crazy insane deals?


----------



## samclarke669 (Sep 6, 2012)

Insane - Really hope you get this sorted, dude.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 6, 2012)

I see someone is having fun with the rep system.


Yeah I *was* neutral right up until I started seeing the conversations from Ryan himself, since that's what I was wanting before I decided for myself. Since Ryan pretty much proved his own stupidity, there ya have it.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 7, 2012)

Well, still no cooperation on this one. I keep being offered monetary compensation with no timeframe whatsoever - I would think it should be obvious why I'd reject that sort of offer.


----------



## ElRay (Sep 7, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Well, still no cooperation on this one. I keep being offered monetary compensation with no timeframe whatsoever - I would think it should be obvious why I'd reject that sort of offer.


He just doesn't get it. He "believes" he's right. He won't change his mind.

How did he ship the goods? If it was USPS, I'd look into mail fraud: He didn't ship what he said he'd ship (wrong MacBook, no iLok, damaged goods).

You've been far, far, far more patient than I would have been.

Ray


----------



## UnderTheSign (Sep 7, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Well, still no cooperation on this one. I keep being offered monetary compensation with no timeframe whatsoever - I would think it should be obvious why I'd reject that sort of offer.


If you've ever considered pursuing legal action, do it now man. Nothing is gonna happen otherwise and we all know it.


----------



## Swyse (Sep 7, 2012)

How doesn't he get that he should send the ltd back and wait for the money to come in so he can replace it. You repay debts before you buy yourself shit. In the chat I didn't notice he was like this at all.


----------



## MJS (Sep 7, 2012)

I'd just go ahead with the small claims stuff now. When the papers are served, his mommy and daddy will probably make their loser kid ship it back, or pay for what he's done and garnish his allowance until they're paid back.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2012)

MJS said:


> I'd just go ahead with the small claims stuff now. When the papers are served, his mommy and daddy will probably make their loser kid ship it back, or pay for what he's done and garnish his allowance until they're paid back.





Good call. Doesn't even have to fully make it to court... He just needs to get served... In a non-Omarion-related way...


----------



## flint757 (Sep 7, 2012)

What is funny is that trading is bartering, but paying cash for something is still bartering, it is just a universally usable form of bartering (less limitations)

If I get a loan from the bank to buy a car and don't make my payments they can repossess it as I was only borrowing it until I actually paid for it. The notion that it is HIS is just ridiculous. Take his ass to court!!!


----------



## mystix (Sep 8, 2012)

just spent a long time reading this thread. unreal.. sorry you are going through this Adam.

Hope it works out


----------



## poopyalligator (Sep 8, 2012)

Hmmm, So I have pondered this scenario for a while. I completely agree that what wayward did was pretty fucked up. There is no question about that. Although I think with as many deals and trades as you do there is going to be 1 or 2 deals that go bad that you simply have to chalk up to bad luck. Despite the fact that he sent you a lesser MBP than promised it is still a pretty prominent machine, and has a good amount of value. If I were you, I would just demand the ilok and maybe a couple of hundred bucks, and just call the deal done. It surely doesn't seem like you are going to get the LTD back. Plus you can part out the hellraiser and recoup some money from that also. As much as it sucks I think that is your best option to be ok, and not really be out anything.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Sep 8, 2012)

Adam, I'm really sorry to hear you get stuck in a situation like this again. First the ESP, and now this. I really hope you fight to get back what's yours.

Wayward doesn't understand the concept of any kind of transaction, if you buy something from a store and it comes to you broken. They're required to replace it, same applies here. 

If legal action is needed, I say go for it. Sometimes doing these things isn't just to regain monetary gain because let's face it, a 500$ LTD that is readily available online if it needs to be replaced isn't the reason this should be sought out. It's because this guy thinks his actions are justified in a country where that doesn't fly. 

The Hellraiser he sent you is 650 new, and your LTD is 600 new from most online retailers. I find it EXTREMELY generous that you even offered to have him send you the LTD and iLok, then call it a day. Especially when the you're the one left out with a broken guitar.

It doesn't matter how much gear you have, how much money you have, or what you want to do with the gear that comes your way. Someone fucked up, and they WILL realize it in court if need be, he's a 20 year old kid who has no sense of how the world nor how the legal system works. If he had any sense in him, he would have made a single statement and not talked around to every one of his "close SSO" friends. Please, he dug his own grave. 

I urge you to keep at it Adam, I would have snapped day 1 and looked into other measures to solve this.



poopyalligator said:


> If I were you, I would just demand the ilok and maybe a couple of hundred bucks, and just call the deal done.



It's not that simple, he wants Adam to wait for him to get said money and send it to him. He's already unreliable and who knows what his real intentions are?


----------



## BornToLooze (Sep 8, 2012)

While I'm not above violence in situations like this, just take him to court. And if money is an issue we could have some kinda of auction thing like they had for Randy Blythe where we make a for sell thread and sell some stuff to help raise you money.


----------



## craigny (Sep 10, 2012)

WOW..can't believe i missed this one till now. Screwed stiuation. Let me say this...ive done more than my fair share of deals between here and HC and thankfully i have not gotten screwed. I have dealt with Ryan once and the deal did go through. 

But i feel obglitated to state that ive done id say close to 10 deals with Adam and have never had a problem....we have had some communication issues due to crappy phone service or possibly a slight delay on shipping by either of us but it always worked out no worries. 

The way i see it is that Adam got a broken guitar, putting aside the possible mis representation on the computer and the software...he recieved a _broken_ guitar. He asked for a guitar back to replace it .....Ryan stated he would give money when he gets it?? I would not want to wait for that either....he had collatoral for the damage..the LTD...he needed to recify it with whatever he had...if he had the $ to send then id agree that he reserved the option to send a dollar amount that was agreed upon by both, but if hes short on cash (which anyone can relate to) then he has to make right with what he DOES have ASAP...the fact that he shipped it like that with NO insurance baffles someone like me who goes OCD with shipping...

I only post cause i like to deal alot and would not want to disuade anyone from dealing on here...there is a 98%age of good people out there and we should keep it that way. Sorry to hear this ...dont like anyone getting hosed.


----------



## Jake (Sep 10, 2012)

he logged in on the 8th, and has yet to speak up.


----------



## L1ght (Sep 11, 2012)

Well to be honest, even if the situation does EVENTUALLY get rectified, I doubt he will ever show his face in this thread. The people here have made it pretty clear that he is unwelcome even if he and Adam come to some agreement.


----------



## engage757 (Sep 11, 2012)

Nagash said:


> About facebook, as I said he unblocked you, and if you further want to deal with him facebook should work again, if it doesn't just PM me and I'll copy/paste for him. This deal is kinda stinky and needs to get fixed properly, I'm trying to help.
> 
> wayward is a SSO buddy of mine, and I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of yours, but that's not really important. This problem took a crazy dimension because you opened a thread about it (although I understand you don't want anyone else to face the same problem, not blaming anything on you there) so it got kinda complicated.




Understood you are trying to help man, but this seems like for someone who's internet doesn't work, he sure can talk to someone in france a lot and get on facebook plenty.  I am no computer whiz, but it seems to be relatively easy for him to speak with you a lot and not Adam.

I have done plenty of deals with Adam, he is a good friend and a standup guy. I can honestly say with out fear of much repercussion from anyone but you, that no one is questioning Adam's reputation around here, and furthermore, I think I speak for the majority when I say that no one gives half a shit about your opinion of him.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Sep 11, 2012)

France is filled with smelly pirate hookers anyway!


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 15, 2012)

So, dude finally agreed to send the LTD back and agreed that going back on those terms would be a legally troubling move... Well, he was supposed to ship Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday. Each day he told me that he was too busy to ship but apologized and said that he would indeed be shipping ASAP. Well, I get on Facebook today and find that he blocked me again...........


----------



## UnderTheSign (Sep 15, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> So, dude finally agreed to send the LTD back and agreed that going back on those terms would be a legally troubling move... Well, he was supposed to ship Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday. Each day he told me that he was too busy to ship but apologized and said that he would indeed be shipping ASAP. Well, I get on Facebook today and find that he blocked me again...........


Legal action, NOW


----------



## L1ght (Sep 15, 2012)

Seems like basically he's just dicking around, trying to drag things out as long as possible in order to either get you to give up out of frustration, or extend the period of time for things be valid in a court of law or whatever. Not sure what the time frame is on things like this in civil court. 

It seems pretty certain you won't be getting anything back from this cunt, so either give up and let him win, or take him to court.


----------



## Nile (Sep 15, 2012)

It seems like he is just dragging it on so it becomes less of an issue court wise. Just go small claims already, fuck him.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 15, 2012)

Actually, he thinks it would be more beneficial to him if he would trade the LTD for a Universe, even though if he does that he's getting hammered with court costs on two ends, unless he is already mailing a check to me. I say this because he mentioned that he was missing out on a good trade for a UV by sending the LTD back to me... Now that I'm blocked, you can see on his Facebook wall that he's planning on making that trade.


----------



## flexkill (Sep 15, 2012)




----------



## Oddkid (Sep 15, 2012)

Not that i'm condoning violence but i'd be getting some loosely acquainted people to pay him a visit with blunt instruments.


----------



## Xaios (Sep 15, 2012)

Oddkid said:


> Not that i'm condoning violence but i'd be getting some loosely acquainted people to pay him a visit with *blunt instruments*.



Schecters?


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 15, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Schecters?



Detach the neck from a schecter guitar and instant baseball bat.


----------



## ASoC (Sep 15, 2012)

Ok, I've been following this thread for a while. I tried not to get involved because I don't know either of you guys (relatively new member). But at this point I would like to suggest that you just take legal action. This guy has been dicking you around long enough. It seems like he's nothing more than a whiny bitch-ass just doing as he pleases, hoping that this'll all go away on its own. Fuck him. Just take him to small claims. He has shown that the only thing he can be trusted to do is go back on his word, so you're going to have to take back what is rightfully yours. Just my


----------



## Razzy (Sep 15, 2012)

ghstofperdition said:


> Detach the neck from a schecter guitar and instant baseball bat.



Wayward's already taken care of that for Adam.


----------



## tacotiklah (Sep 15, 2012)

^I wanna laugh at that, but then I'd feel even worse for Adam.


----------



## MJS (Sep 15, 2012)

I think it's safe to say there's no chance of the loser doing the right thing on his own, so I'd just move on with the small claims stuff. If there's a slight chance that his parents aren't degenerate lowlifes like their kid, they'll ground the idiot and send you your stuff. 

Actually, do you have his phone number? Call his parents and see if they'd like to fix things for him before he loses in court and they get stuck with the bill. They know they're going to be the ones paying for his mistakes either way since he's a loser, so they might appreciate a chance at doing it the cheap & easy way by just sending you your guitar, iLock & whatever else he needs to send. 

It's not like they need their loser kid's permission to do what needs to be done.


----------



## flint757 (Sep 15, 2012)

Based on what I've heard in this thread though he is still a dependent which makes it relevant if he ends up costing them money (since he doesn't seem to have any).


----------



## MJS (Sep 15, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> He Is 20.....



... and he'll still be living with mommy and daddy when he's in his forties. Their house, their rules.


----------



## L1ght (Sep 15, 2012)

flint757 said:


> Based on what I've heard in this thread though he is still a dependent which makes it relevant if he ends up costing them money (since he doesn't seem to have any).



Bingo. 

And honestly, who gives a fuck about the parents getting stuck with the bill anyways? Apparently, he "gathered his friends and FAMILY", and they ALL came to the conclusion that Wayward should keep the guitar and close off the deal, as is. Sounds to me like either he didn't tell them the whole story, OR, they are all scumbags just like him.


----------



## MJS (Sep 15, 2012)

L1ght said:


> And honestly, who gives a fuck about the parents getting stuck with the bill anyways?



No one -- that's the point. Give them a chance to pay it the easy way first, since they're the ones that will get stuck with his bills anyway.



L1ght said:


> Apparently, he "gathered his friends and FAMILY", and they ALL came to the conclusion that Wayward should keep the guitar ...



Keep in mind that those are his words... and there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a single time where he's told the truth. 

There's a chance that if Adam calls them, it will be the first they've heard of it and they'll be furious. Or maybe they're dirtbags just like him and condone his behavior. The truth is only a phone call away.


----------



## texshred777 (Sep 16, 2012)

I've had to resort to speaking with parents before. My first tube head(and forum purchase ever) was a nightmare. I bought a Legacy head that took months to get shipped. Dude told me time and time again he'd sent it out, so I went public on a forum in a manner much like this. In the end some friends of his hooked me up with his home phone number. Wasnt home but I spoke with his dad(who WAS furious) and he shipped it out the next day.

Not trying to thread-jack. Point is, if someone behaves like a child sometimes you have to treat them a such.


----------

