# Wintersong Guitars - Barbarian



## olsonuf (Jul 8, 2009)

I just ordered a customized Barbarian 7-string model from Wintersong guitars, I'm really looking forward to playing it! This is the first company I've seen in a long time that has awesome looks and makes their guitars to the specs I like, and at affordable prices, not to mention free upgrades to Seymour Duncans on most of their guitar models!

Their newest addition and first 7-string added in the line, the Barbarian comes standard with a maple neck, mahogany body, rosewood fingerboard, 24 frets, passive electronics and a 3-way pickup selector. They are the first guitar company geared toward players of Black Metal, Folk Metal, and Viking Metal...right up my alley! (For example, their Skogen guitar [6-string] features Mjollnir [Thor's Hammer] inlays.)

I'll post a response to this thread once I have the guitar in my hands, with links to some audio samples, and maybe even some video! Meanwhile check them out at Wintersong Guitars - Handmade guitars for the true warrior ! or on MySpace at Wintersong Guitars on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads !

Please let me know if you have played a Wintersong guitar!


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## RawrItsRaptor (Jul 8, 2009)

That looks amazing! I would've went without the tremol-no but, that is just my taste.


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## Ketzer (Jul 8, 2009)

Is that a LFR?

Most of the guitars look like near carbon-copies of other manufacturers'. I see an ESP F Bass, what looks like a Hacked-up F, a Halo's modified explorer, and a Jackson Kelly. With the pics on their site were better.


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## Apophis (Jul 8, 2009)

Not bad, but still nothing unique


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## TimSE (Jul 8, 2009)

Apophis said:


> Not bad, but still nothing unique




altho the headstock looks alot cooler than most even though there is little different about it


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## olsonuf (Jul 17, 2009)

First pic of the guitar in progress....this will be the fretboard:







They tried something a little different with the markers than what was originally planned...I like it!


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## BlindingLight7 (Jul 17, 2009)

affordable as in thousands or hundreds?

i just put my quote request in, lets see what we can do here!


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## Sang-Drax (Jul 18, 2009)

Since I don't like extreme designs, I kinda like it. Reminds me of a Schecter C7


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## BlindingLight7 (Jul 18, 2009)

i wonder HOW custom i can go....


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## Ketzer (Jul 18, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> i wonder HOW custom i can go....



Only one way to find out.


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## Ibanezsam4 (Jul 19, 2009)

gotta love this disclaimer on the website "Please note, we DO NOT plan to endorse any thrash metal, death metal, metalcore, grindcore, hard rock, or nu-metal bands. (Only exception would be a viking or fantasy themed death metal band, i.e. Amon Amarth, Battlelore, etc)" 

i lol-ed


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## BlindingLight7 (Jul 19, 2009)

Ibanezsam4 said:


> gotta love this disclaimer on the website "Please note, we DO NOT plan to endorse any thrash metal, death metal, metalcore, grindcore, hard rock, or nu-metal bands. (Only exception would be a viking or fantasy themed death metal band, i.e. Amon Amarth, Battlelore, etc)"
> 
> i lol-ed


 just say your in a black metal band named grimgasm


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## XeoFLCL (Jul 19, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> just say your in a black metal band named grimgasm


Or in a blackened nu metal band 

... I'd love to hear that


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## yingmin (Jul 19, 2009)

I love the irony of the most cliché, played-out, unadventurous body style possible being named "the Barbarian".


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## Stitch (Jul 19, 2009)

I love the fact that the guy obviously is plugging his own company.

Guitar looks like shit FWIW. Boring trem, boring body, boring colour and a hideous headstock and logo.

I'd rather own the Schecter you copied the design off.


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## BlindingLight7 (Jul 20, 2009)

i'm waiting to see what this other guys guitar looks like, i'm starting to feel as if i'm talking to a shady guitar builder...


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## NeglectedField (Jul 20, 2009)

The guitar looks like a counterfeit Chinese Schecter C-7FR. To be honest. If the style had been a bit less derivative I wouldn't have thought that.


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## Stitch (Jul 21, 2009)

They all look like Chibanez guitars, made with those precut guitar bodies we were seeing in the DeVries situation.


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## Inazone (Jul 21, 2009)

There was also a company called Winter Guitars, that "built" some very similar models. The plastic sharkfin inlays, headstocks, cheap trems and washed out rosewood boards all point to Chinese cookie-cutter parts, not custom-built anything.


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## olsonuf (Sep 1, 2009)

Actually no, I was an endorser until I got the guitar. I am unsatisfied with it and am no longer working with Wintersong Guitars. I am a guitarist, in the band Todesbonden, and have not met the owner of Wintersong personally, ever. So "this guy" is a different guy, to whom I am returning the guitar and requesting a refund, FWIW. 



Stitch said:


> I love the fact that the guy obviously is plugging his own company.
> 
> Guitar looks like shit FWIW. Boring trem, boring body, boring colour and a hideous headstock and logo.
> 
> I'd rather own the Schecter you copied the design off.



Are you in contact with them also? I am withdrawing from endorsement with them due to dissatisfaction with the guitar's quality and with their unwillingness to fix the problems with the guitar. So I guess I'll have to see how smoothly this process goes... I'll post on that too.



BlindingLight7 said:


> i'm waiting to see what this other guys guitar looks like, i'm starting to feel as if i'm talking to a shady guitar builder...


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## Esp Griffyn (Sep 2, 2009)

So waht was wrong with the guitar? I mean, I thought it looked like a cheap piece of crap from the start, but can you tell us about the problems it had?


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## olsonuf (Sep 22, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> So waht was wrong with the guitar? I mean, I thought it looked like a cheap piece of crap from the start, but can you tell us about the problems it had?



Absolutely. I'll start with functional issues, and then move on to cosmetic issues and ignored specs....keeping in mind all along that I was told it would take a month or less to build, beginning July 7, 2009. As a 30th birthday gift to me, my mother paid $530 for this guitar at the "artist discount" rate.



Neck pickup is so crooked it chokes the strings from fret 17 and up. Installed with slanted pickup frames, so I'll have to uninstall them myself, and either sand down or replace the pickup frames. (I am not handy with electronics, so this will cost me)
The rear tremolo cavity was routed more than 1/4" to the side, causing the tremolo block to collide with the body.
The left-side bridge height adjustment bolt arrived _completely stripped_. When I told them this, they told me to use a string cutter to turn it. As if that, plyers, wire-cutters, or other destructive means were a viable option. The other bolt is only _mostly_ stripped. But, if I lower it to _acceptable_ action (meaning, still not _good_ action), it worsens the first problem, choking even lower frets.
The tremolo system itself is of very low quality. It and all of its parts, inside and out, feel and look visibly cheap.
Requested Satin Finish - received black paint with glossy finish. Now I'll stick to the neck when I'm sweating.
There are visible puddles of dried fret glue surrounding several of the frets, especially around the 9th and 10th frets. When I told them about this, they told me to try steel wool - again, *I* am left to repair their sloppy workmanship (*made in China*, as it turns out)
Requested small dot inlays, offset to the top side of the neck (just like their "Asgard" guitar picture)....*one month* into building it, I received the first and _only_ picture until it was "done"...saying "_I installed these inlays instead because I thought you'd like them_". No image mock-up...*installed*. They look like teeth. But...not wanting to keep waiting even longer while they start over, I accepted these inlays. I was actually charged _extra_ for "custom inlays"...I just thought that would mean _MY_ custom inlays, not his, on my guitar.
Requested (many times in writing and verbally on the phone) all black hardware....received all cheap chrome hardware. Not just chrome - cheap. The low quality of the tremolo is matched by the rest of the hardware.
I finally received the guitar on August 31, after nearly twice as long as I was originally quoted.
*Service Issues:* 


After I sent them a detailed list featuring all these specific problems, especially those relating to the really bad trem, I was sent a general response stating "_My girlfriend said she does not think she will be able to fix the tremelo system. Let me know what you want to do_."
Which by this point, what I wanted to do, and did, was *to resign as an endorsed artist*, stating that "_I don't think I can stand by you if you offer custom work, approve of doing it, then don't deliver it, and then additionally say in broad, general terms, how you can't fix what I took the time to specifically describe how it handicaps the guitar's playability. I cannot in good conscience continue to refer my fellow musicians, friends and fans to you while these quality and service issues exist._"
However, he had not yet seen this email before responding to my earlier question "_which issue specifically about the tremolo did she say she can't fix, and why_?", answering "_The reason we most likely cannot repair the tremelo is because I design the guitars but they are hand *made in china*, so unfortionatly I cannot adjust the tremelo since it may mean redesigning the entire guitar. If you still want to keep the guitar, I will get you the black tremelo system._" As if a black tremolo system was going to fix my problems at this point.
After requesting a refund plus return shipping costs for this defective piece of crap, he (owner Randy Harrison, aka _"Einar Sveinsson"_) adamantly *refused to pay for return shipping*, citing a "return policy" that he has never posted anywhere except that email to me, insisting that after all of the problems with the guitar and not living up to his word, I had to PAY to send it back to him FIRST, and THEN be refunded.
Naturally, I refused to pay return shipping for a guitar that was not what I had even ordered, and could not be played.
In response to not getting more money out of me, he then tried to stall me by insisting that he would only refund the money to my mother, which I quickly accepted, and asked him WHEN he would do this.
Not expecting me to accept these new terms, he then decided that now he would also deduct the price of the DiMarzio Blaze pickups from the refund amount because they were "custom" and he "couldn't do anything with them".
After all of this, and my endorsement resignation, and the PayPal dispute that my mother tried to file but that went nowhere, and my written demands that he remove me from his artists lists and top MySpace friends, he began slandering me on his MySpace Blog and Bulletin posts (with me still on his top friends, mind you) on Sept 12, 11 days after I resigned, stating now that I was "kicked off" their roster and that I somehow tried to scam _them_ by asking for the refund. These posts were deleted by MySpace Abuse, and then reposted by Randy on Sept 17, and again were deleted, only to be reposted AGAIN on Sept 21. That post is still there, pending deletion. The guy doesn't learn....he's *determined* to smear my reputation, if not by direct association then by some other means.
I have disputed his libelous post here: Wintersong Guitars - Slander on top of Bad Business

...including a demo video that shows how the playability is flawed. I held back from posting this video publicly for a few weeks but since he is just actively going out of his way to attack me with no end in sight, my time for action is now.


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## cyril v (Sep 22, 2009)

holy shit dude... 



talk about a horror story, damn. just send it back. probably worth the $100 to get rid of the headache that i'm sure this gave you. also, if it's a bolt-on. maybe you could dissasemble it to make the packaging smaller to get a cheaper price for shipping. $100 seems a little high.

just throwing it out there, but these guitars look like Halo guitars, and your experience pretty much mirrors mine.


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## olsonuf (Sep 22, 2009)

cyril v said:


> holy shit dude...
> 
> talk about a horror story, damn. just send it back. probably worth the $100 to get rid of the headache that i'm sure this gave you. also, if it's a bolt-on. maybe you could dissasemble it to make the packaging smaller to get a cheaper price for shipping. $100 seems a little high.
> 
> just throwing it out there, but these guitars look like Halo guitars, and your experience pretty much mirrors mine.



Yeah I definitely want to send it back, but at this point, I would expect to just never see the money either. At least with the guitar, I have tangible proof of the trash I was sent. Having shipped a lot of guitars I've sold on eBay over the years, this guy either severely marked up the shipping, or "his guy" ripped him a new one on the shipping costs, but probably the former.


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## cyril v (Sep 22, 2009)

awesome playing btw..!! 

listening to Todesbonden right now.


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## SupaCoolMan2005 (Sep 22, 2009)

Dude i feel bad for you...but i feel bad for him even more..you should spread that article you made..its not right for someone to slander you and plain just flat out lie about them kick you out and how YOU were trying to scam them..he must be one sad and pathetic guy..Hopefully your mother gets her money back


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 22, 2009)

I've been seeing a lot of drama over independent builders on here recently.

I'm happy with getting my ESPs/LTDs from shops where this kind of thing can't happen


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## WarriorOfMetal (Sep 22, 2009)

I didn't see that you updated this thread and started a new one in General Music...oops!


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 22, 2009)

this is appalling.

I don't see what his girlfriend has to do with it?

he may not have made any money on the guitar but seeing as you were an endorsee that should have been the case anyway.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Sep 22, 2009)

She's the other half of the US-based part of the company, as I recall. I think she does the setup work.


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 22, 2009)

I figured she might be but at the rate that guy was lying it might've just been another excuse


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## HighGain510 (Sep 22, 2009)

After reading this thread I'm really confused.... you thought something that looks like this:







as a "custom" guitar that costs $500... was NOT going to be made in China and turn out horrific?   Ugh, that thing screamed "I'm built in a sweatshop by a 12-year old kid for $0.45/hr" as soon as I looked at the picture in the first post!


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## sevenstringj (Sep 22, 2009)

A friend of yours posted a link to your email exchanges with this company in the General Discussion forum. To be fair, you were way outta line demanding a refund BEFORE sending it back. That's just not how any company does business. Also, special/custom orders are typically not refundable/returnable. They ARE usually covered by a limited warranty, which is basically what he's offered you, albeit on somewhat shitty terms. Is that because he's a douche? Perhaps. OR... he could just be reacting to your unreasonable demand by making unreasonable demands himself.

Besides, what's the point of being on their roster if you gotta pay for the guitar??? 

Oh, and check this out... http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=474160915&blogId=511318528 (I'm not agreeing with it, just giving you a heads up.)


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## olsonuf (Sep 23, 2009)

AbstractAsylum said:


> Wow. That sucks.
> 
> These seems like a big controversial thing, can't he bring da law into it? They OWE him the $530, a law suit would settle that, right?



Yes, I can, but due to it involving several states there is a lot of research being done on each state's laws first.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Sep 23, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> A friend of yours posted a link to your email exchanges with this company in the General Discussion forum.



Jason posted that same link in this thread before I started that one, not realizing he'd updated this one.


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## olsonuf (Sep 23, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> A friend of yours posted a link to your email exchanges with this company in the General Discussion forum. To be fair, you were way outta line demanding a refund BEFORE sending it back. That's just not how any company does business. Also, special/custom orders are typically not refundable/returnable. They ARE usually covered by a limited warranty, which is basically what he's offered you, albeit on somewhat shitty terms. Is that because he's a douche? Perhaps. OR... he could just be reacting to your unreasonable demand by making unreasonable demands himself.
> 
> Besides, what's the point of being on their roster if you gotta pay for the guitar???
> 
> Oh, and check this out... Jason Aaron Wood makes an ASS out of himself - Wintersong Guitars's MySpace Blog | (I'm not agreeing with it, just giving you a heads up.)



I see where you're coming from, but that email screenshot page only covers a small portion of the emails between us that showed how unreliable he is. After seeing what I got for $530, I could not bring myself to put any further trust into him, let alone "$100" for shipping it again (especially since anyone who has ever shipped a guitar would know, TOPS, it costs $45, and it certainly was not shipped express/overnight), since it wasn't my fault it was defective and didn't even meet the specs.

So getting the guitar with this level of poor construction, combined with the fact it was sent out to me being so far from the detailed written specs we had exchanged, further combined with their inability and/or unwillingness to take responsibility for fixing it despite originally claiming they were personally hand-building it (and after actually OFFERING to pay return shipping before all this happened, in case I didn't like something about it), caused me to resign. At which point, fixing it was irrelevant, since it was neither usable nor "custom" in this condition.

Due to resigning over their unwillingness to set this right, I should not have to let go of the guitar before seeing him follow through on his end. If I just didn't like it, that's one thing....but ANY company will pay return shipping if the product is defective. In light of it being a defective product, I don't really find my request unreasonable, given the circumstances.

But yes, I did see that new link. Thank you for posting it anyway though. Very entertaining that I am somehow an ass for being surprised that a good portion of the frets *don't work*.


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2009)

It doesn't matter what you feel you're entitled to. There are ways of going about things. I woulda said from the get-go, "OK. I'll send you back the guitar. If you can fix it, great. If not, I'll expect a full refund." Doesn't matter how shitty it is, doesn't matter how much of a douche the guy is, you can't expect money before sending it back. But I agree you should get a FULL refund if he can't fix it. (The shipping's a bitch because I think he's talking about sending it back to China to get fixed. )

At this point, you have a few options:

-File a Paypal dispute immediately. If it's within 45 days since payment, you're good to go. If you still can't resolve it, escalate it to a claim. Don't get discouraged by the process--it IS a pain in the ass, especially with a shitty seller. But Paypal does cover you for $200. So worst case scenario you'll have $200, a worthless guitar, and a pair of Dimarzio pickups you could probably sell for $80-100.

-Fix it yourself. The pickup thing should be cheap and easy. Just sand down the underside of the pickup ring, buy a low profile pickup ring, or just direct mount the pups. You can do all of that without rewiring anything or even removing the strings, and for dirt cheap or free. The tremolo studs should be cheap and easy. Remove the trem and you should be able to loosen the studs with your fingers. Then replace the studs. Or replace the whole trem if you want. The routing? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but sounds like any descent repair shop would be able to rout the little extra you need to clear the sustain block on dives. Heck, you may even be able to do it yourself with some coarse sandpaper and patience.

Good luck!


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## olsonuf (Sep 23, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> It doesn't matter what you feel you're entitled to. There are ways of going about things. I woulda said from the get-go, "OK. I'll send you back the guitar. If you can fix it, great. If not, I'll expect a full refund." Doesn't matter how shitty it is, doesn't matter how much of a douche the guy is, you can't expect money before sending it back. But I agree you should get a FULL refund if he can't fix it. (The shipping's a bitch because I think he's talking about sending it back to China to get fixed. )
> 
> At this point, you have a few options:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, we'll have to try escalating it to a PayPal claim. The 45 days for the dispute was up before I even got the guitar, so yeah that went nowhere, and now the guy's calling our attempt to file a dispute a "scam".

I expect no cooperation from him so I'll probably end up doing the work myself, so I appreciate the tips on how to fix these issues...I'll be needing them.  Thanks!


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## CrushingAnvil (Sep 23, 2009)

Wow, That Randy guy made up a fake Norwegian name?


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## Yoshi (Sep 23, 2009)

no offense, but I'm pretty sure I said this before. They look like cheap, plastic toys. I wouldn't pay $500 for something that's custom...because there is no guarentee.


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## olsonuf (Sep 23, 2009)

What's more hilarious is that after all the effort he's making to say I was "kicked off of Wintersong Guitars", he has now turned around and taken the exact video I made, covered up the end where the frets are choked, and *is now using my name and image to promote his guitars.* And I'm still on his top MySpace friends. Damn, being "kicked off" seems to only have slander as a penalty!

YouTube - wintersongguitars's Channel


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 23, 2009)

Jesus, that's fucked up dude. There must be some legal shit you can do.


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 23, 2009)

olsonuf said:


> What's more hilarious is that after all the effort he's making to say I was "kicked off of Wintersong Guitars", he has now turned around and taken the exact video I made, covered up the end where the frets are choked, and *is now using my name and image to promote his guitars.* And I'm still on his top MySpace friends. Damn, being "kicked off" seems to only have slander as a penalty!
> 
> YouTube - wintersongguitars's Channel



fucking hell dude, have you given this guy a piece of your mind?

I would be verbally raping him right now if I was in your shoes.


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## snuif09 (Sep 23, 2009)

Molotov cocktails aren't that difficult to make.......USE THEM


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2009)

Flag the video and select "infringes my rights." I don't know what happens next because I've never done that before. Hopefully they just delete it, or give you an opportunity to prove it. After all, you did upload the original.

C'mon, ya gotta be proactive here.


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 23, 2009)

YouTube is such a huge site though I can see it being weeks before Moderators even pick up on it.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Sep 23, 2009)

I read through this whole thread and thought "you kinda got what you paid for"... but the edited YouTube video is out of control. I'd be finding creative new ways to destroy this guy if I were you.


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## norrin radcliff (Sep 23, 2009)

Smells like defamation to me...


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> YouTube is such a huge site though I can see it being weeks before Moderators even pick up on it.



Maybe. I just flagged it as spam/scam or fraud. If a bunch of us do the same, it may get taken down faster. But olsonuf should definitely flag it as infringing his rights.

Anyway, not to beat a dead horse, but $500 for "handmade" "custom" guitar from a nobody startup =






*BUT THANKS FOR TAKIN' ONE FOR THE TEAM!*


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## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah, in retrospect the idea of getting a custom from an unknown luthier for a great price does seem a bad idea. But you can't knock the guy for doing it. I mean, there are well known companies that still build stuff that have big issues (Halo) and there are unknowns that end up being amazing (The Illustrated Luthier). At this point, though, with the last 6 months of horror stories about independent luthiers I am never going to pay in full for anything custom until I receive it and evaluate it. And if that's not the way the company operates then I guess I don't get a guitar from them.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah, you will NEVER find a company willing to do that. Nothing leaves a luthier until it's been paid in full  Unless you know the guy, or they're really desperate. Hell, the only way you'll get a production guitar out of a store without paying the whole thing up front is with financing, and the store is already covered


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, in retrospect the idea of getting a custom from an unknown *NON-*luthier for a *STUPIDLY LOW* price *ON TEH INTERNETS* does seem a bad idea.



Fixed. 

I'd have no qualms about buying a custom from a local startup luthier if I can actually try it out beforehand and negotiate a price.

But that's not what happened here. And from what I can tell, the guy is NOT a luthier. He lets you pick certain options and then has them built in China. Like Rondo Music, except the guy's not up front about it, and obviously has some QC issues to iron out.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 23, 2009)

You also have to factor in he got it at an endorser price. KxK did the first small run of Sii-7's for $999. That's probably not much more than the Wintersong would have cost to someone not getting a discount, which is really fucked up when you think about it, considering the quality of the KxK's


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## darren (Sep 23, 2009)

If it sounds too good to be true, chances are, it is.


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## sevenstringj (Sep 23, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You also have to factor in he got it at an endorser price.



I dunno. I'd say $530 for a Made in China guitar with cheap shit hardware is about right, if not excessive. 

Unfortunately, homeboy thought they're a USA custom shop and that he was getting some sorta deal.


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## Hollowway (Sep 23, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Yeah, you will NEVER find a company willing to do that. Nothing leaves a luthier until it's been paid in full  Unless you know the guy, or they're really desperate. Hell, the only way you'll get a production guitar out of a store without paying the whole thing up front is with financing, and the store is already covered


 
Yeah, that's the thing, though: If I can try it, I'm OK to buy it. But sight unseen, that just takes a lot of faith. So, for instance, I can go try a Carvin at a store, and if they play well, I can reasonably expect that one I order will, too. But if it's just paying some dude, and I've never touched the guitar in person, I'm thinking I don't need to roll the dice on it. That being said, I still plan on getting a Rotor fanned fret model, and I've never even SEEN one!


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## MF_Kitten (Sep 23, 2009)

never underestimate how naive one can get when presented with "the perfect deal". all it takes is a believable face to the company, you know?

having said that, taking the leap without proof of quality is rarely a good idea. most of the independent luthiers on here has been able to prove that they are worthy beforehand through detailed build threads and proper arguments.


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## olsonuf (Sep 23, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> Flag the video and select "infringes my rights." I don't know what happens next because I've never done that before. Hopefully they just delete it, or give you an opportunity to prove it. After all, you did upload the original.
> 
> C'mon, ya gotta be proactive here.



I did exactly that immediately this morning upon discovering it. YouTube isn't so quick to reply...(neither is MySpace Abuse)... 



sevenstringj said:


> I dunno. I'd say $530 for a Made in China guitar with cheap shit hardware is about right, if not excessive.
> 
> Unfortunately, homeboy thought they're a USA custom shop and that he was getting some sorta deal.



I mainly thought that, because I was told that directly by Randy Harrison. The original story was "my girlfriend went to Musicians Institute and she's the one who builds them, I handle sales. She's worked with several other guitar companies and started building her own since she got out of school."

Then when the issues came up, the story became "my girlfriend said she doesn't think she can fix the tremelo...because I design the guitars but then they are hand made overseas in china."

Is it me, or is that fraud (or at least false advertising)? He, living in California, says his girlfriend (in the pictures...implying she's also in CA) builds them. AFTER receiving it with numerous issues, THEN he reveals they're really made in china.



cyril v said:


> awesome playing btw..!!
> 
> listening to Todesbonden right now.



Awesome! Thanks for the compliment!


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## olsonuf (Sep 25, 2009)

Well now that MySpace has deleted both of those blog posts (and their accompanying bulletins), and YouTube has removed the cover-up video due to my copyright claim, in his sheer determination to smear me, *he has made me front page news on his official website*, obviously more focused on attacking me unhindered than on realizing how that's going to make him look. 

It will be even nicer when YouTube removes the re-posted cover-up version of his video, again.


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## lurgar (Sep 26, 2009)

I've just been sitting on the sidelines and have my own opinions of all things that have transpired, but it really does not reflect well on a company to lie outright about aspects of their product and then instead of working with a person actually try to deceive people about what happened.


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## olsonuf (Sep 29, 2009)

lurgar said:


> I've just been sitting on the sidelines and have my own opinions of all things that have transpired, but it really does not reflect well on a company to lie outright about aspects of their product and then instead of working with a person actually try to deceive people about what happened.



It also doesn't help when they get their MySpace account disabled for trying harder to smear their customers than to fix their QC issues, or when because of this, they devote the entire home page of their site to the smear campaign, posting personal financial info.

Wintersong Guitars - Handmade guitars for the true warrior !


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## DevinShidaker (Sep 29, 2009)

man this makes me sick. I sent him a nice little email. I know it won't change his mind because he's obviously a moron, but I want to see all the stuff he's says back to me. Sorry this happened to you, Jason.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow we finally got devries #2.

awesome! Have you still not found any legal action you can take against the guy?


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## olsonuf (Sep 29, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Wow we finally got devries #2.
> 
> awesome! Have you still not found any legal action you can take against the guy?



I'm not familiar w/ devries...

I've contacted a few attorneys and I'm waiting to hear back from them at this point. 

Posting my personal financial info was his response to my Cease & Desist order.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 29, 2009)

Dude, he just created a fake Youtube profile using your name and posted that other video as well, with a description of "Me playing my great custom Wintersong"



Go to the actual video on youtube if this embeds and look. That's criminal dude, not just defamation of character, that's outright fraud.


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## liamh (Sep 29, 2009)




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## st2012 (Sep 29, 2009)

This guy's fucking himself legally.


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## DevinShidaker (Sep 29, 2009)

wow this guy is such a moron, I can't wait to see him go down.


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## lurgar (Sep 29, 2009)

When you google "Wintersong Guitars" you get a couple of results for the company (website and myspace pages), then after that there is all this stuff about what they're doing to Jason. Maybe that's why they're pulling up old financial records as an attempt to smear you. A smarter idea would have been to hide out more of the information including the actual dates because I honestly don't care that somebody had something happen 2004.


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## thinkpad20 (Sep 29, 2009)

Uh, why would you get that shit in the first place? Did you just really like the way it looks, or what... for the same price or less you could have gotten the same specs or better, from a KNOWN company with a reputation, (e.g. an Ibby 7620) and not have had to worry about all of the question marks that turned out to go so wrong.

Not to say that the guy isn't a scumbag loser, and I wish you the best. But I think part of the moral is live and learn. I'm currently planning a custom build, and mark my words it will be with a luthier whose work I'm familiar with... perhaps not have played, but at least seen lots of examples and heard from others...


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## DevinShidaker (Sep 29, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> Uh, why would you get that shit in the first place? Did you just really like the way it looks, or what... for the same price or less you could have gotten the same specs or better, from a KNOWN company with a reputation, (e.g. an Ibby 7620) and not have had to worry about all of the question marks that turned out to go so wrong.
> 
> Not to say that the guy isn't a scumbag loser, and I wish you the best. But I think part of the moral is live and learn. I'm currently planning a custom build, and mark my words it will be with a luthier whose work I'm familiar with... perhaps not have played, but at least seen lots of examples and heard from others...



Well I think that he got it because he got an endorsement. At one point in time I came very close to getting a Halo because Waylon wanted to give me an endorsement. I was on the fence at first, and after reading all the bullshit about them and just seeing the actual quality of work, I told him to kindly fuck himself. I'm sure Jason was in the same boat, but because of them being a lesser known company, there weren't a lot of reviews about them to steer him away.


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## Xaios (Sep 29, 2009)

Wow, the video JJ posted has already been pulled.

Looks like we found our North American Devries.


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## olsonuf (Sep 29, 2009)

Xaios said:


> Wow, the video JJ posted has already been pulled.
> 
> Looks like we found our North American Devries.



Yeah I have been reporting his edited versions to YouTube the moment they are posted.


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## Xaios (Sep 29, 2009)

Perhaps you should email him a link to this thread so he can see just what immense damage he's doing to his reputation by being so duplicitous.


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## Hollowway (Sep 30, 2009)

Man, you definitely need to take legal action with that business of him posting your credit info online. I don't know enough about the law to know what that is in violation of, but it just CAN'T be legal. That is hands down the most uncool thing I've ever seen any guitar-oriented business do. PLEASE do something legally, because there's no telling how far this will be taken.


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## thinkpad20 (Sep 30, 2009)

envenomedcky said:


> Well I think that he got it because he got an endorsement. At one point in time I came very close to getting a Halo because Waylon wanted to give me an endorsement. I was on the fence at first, and after reading all the bullshit about them and just seeing the actual quality of work, I told him to kindly fuck himself. I'm sure Jason was in the same boat, but because of them being a lesser known company, there weren't a lot of reviews about them to steer him away.



I dunno, I don't have any experience with endorsement deals, but to me the only reasons to go for one are

1) If there's a huge monetary incentive

and/or

2) If you absolutely love the instruments.


And the way I see it, the first one isn't the case because as I said there are many similarly spec'd (and much higher quality) guitars for around the same price, and the second one can't be the case because he'd never played one before. So, I'm still left scratching my head 

But hey, I don't want to rub salt in the wound, so I'll leave off... that really sucks bro and I hope it works out.


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## RenegadeDave (Sep 30, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> I dunno, I don't have any experience with endorsement deals, but to me the only reasons to go for one are
> 
> 1) If there's a huge monetary incentive
> 
> ...



Don't forget the PR that can come with an endorsement deal. You get listed on their website and odds are that website gets a lot more traffic than your band website does.


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## olsonuf (Sep 30, 2009)

RenegadeDave said:


> Don't forget the PR that can come with an endorsement deal. You get listed on their website and odds are that website gets a lot more traffic than your band website does.



That was the main attraction for me. I admit that I feel pretty dumb for having mistaken this company for a reputable one. It all looks clearer in hindsight.

I've updated the video I originally created, because he edited out the flaw at the end and re-uploaded it. Now he probably won't be as tempted...


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 1, 2009)

In hind sight dude, it probably would have been better to just make a video review, as in have you talk about how crappy it was then demonstrate it instead of playing this wicked tune and magically have it shit the bed on you and look surprised 

Also I imagine he probably has the original saved anyways since he's already edited it.


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## 74n4LL0 (Oct 1, 2009)

olsonuf said:


> That was the main attraction for me. I admit that I feel pretty dumb for having mistaken this company for a reputable one. It all looks clearer in hindsight.
> 
> I've updated the video I originally created, because he edited out the flaw at the end and re-uploaded it. Now he probably won't be as tempted...




can't you post this as a response to his videos?
I mean using the function so that you'll have the link at the bottom of the video...


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## olsonuf (Oct 1, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> In hind sight dude, it probably would have been better to just make a video review, as in have you talk about how crappy it was then demonstrate it instead of playing this wicked tune and magically have it shit the bed on you and look surprised
> 
> Also I imagine he probably has the original saved anyways since he's already edited it.



True, and I actually have that video nearly completed as well. I just thought I'd demonstrate that the problem was with the guitar, and not with my playing, since he's been denying what the guitar's real issues are.

But yes, he definitely does have my original since he keeps uploading his edit of it. But that's actually okay. He's uploaded it the WintersongGuitars youtube account for the 3rd time now...so hopefully that account goes down just like his MySpace did after 3 strikes.



74n4LL0 said:


> can't you post this as a response to his videos?
> I mean using the function so that you'll have the link at the bottom of the video...



I just tried it, but nothing happened. I think he probably has all commenting screened.

EDIT @ 7pm EST: 
1. The "WintersongGuitars" YouTube account is now suspended for repeat violations of my copyrighted material. Of course within 20 minutes he'd already started up the "WintersongGuitarsOff" account, re-uploaded the same video AGAIN, and for spite, added my account as a friend to kinda say "I'm still here". What a parasite.
2. I uploaded a new video in response to Wintersong's imposter "JasonAaronWood" video:
YouTube - Jason Aaron Wood (olsonuf9) speaks to his imposter account holder - "JasonAaronWood"


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## 22km Tombstone (Oct 1, 2009)

Man, what a dick.

I can't wait to see this guy go down in flames.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 1, 2009)

I just want to say you're fucking awesome at editing videos


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## 74n4LL0 (Oct 2, 2009)

seeing how things are evolving I think that you should sue him. not only for the money but also for defamation and fraud


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## Isan (Oct 2, 2009)

Ill buy it off ya for 100 bucks jason


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## maxident213 (Oct 2, 2009)

Just read though this thread and watched your latest Youtube upload - what a raw deal, man, you have my sympathy. Hopefully you can get things evened out without taking it to court, but I agree with others here in that if you have to take it that far, you have a very strong case and will pretty much steamroll this guy in a court of law. Good luck dude. 

Also, I lol'd at the tags for this thread.


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## olsonuf (Oct 6, 2009)

Well now that the YouTube acct "WintersongGuitars" has been suspended, and the imposter one "JasonAaronWood" has been closed, and they regained access to their myspace profile, the guy tried emailing me to "compromise" while giving a back-handed threat - his offer was for me to FIRST take down my page about what I've been through so far (mostly screenshots and documentation of his activities), and THEN he'd take the info off of his website. And for the icing of his "peace offering" he said that if I don't comply, he has "much more information on me" than my two financial records, and threatened (stupidly) to call my local police, with whom I've already spoken about this situation on three separate occasions.

Of course, I've compromised PLENTY already - my mother has been ripped off, I have had to back-track and undo any damage to my reputation that my previous promotion efforts for their company might have caused me, and have had to document and refute an absurd number of his attacks (most of which have quickly blown up in his face). How convenient that he thinks he can just make a lot of trouble for me and expect me to just drop the issue after being sold a $530 piece of garbage being passed off as a "custom" guitar.

He has begun openly admitting he's lied about his identity all along in his attempt to make fun of me on his website, saying "he actually thinks the owner's name is Randy Harrison." As if I didn't have enough evidence that this guy was a fraud...he now boasts that he's been lying about who he even is....on his WEBSITE'S HOME PAGE.

(This guy also doesn't seem to understand that something is only "slander" and "libel" if it is false.)


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## DevinShidaker (Oct 7, 2009)

man somehow somebody has to take this guy down.


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## Xaios (Oct 7, 2009)

Man, this Randy whateverhisnameis just keeps digging his own grave. I say sue him for everything he's got, you've obviously got more than enough to make a solid case against this guy.


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## Prydogga (Oct 7, 2009)

I watched your newest vid and while your situation sucks, your video was really well done.


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## BlindingLight7 (Oct 7, 2009)

i'm glad i didn't do business with this guy...holy shit, this IS worse than devries.


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## cyril v (Oct 7, 2009)

BlindingLight7 said:


> i'm glad i didn't do business with this guy...holy shit, this IS worse than devries.



seriously... at least devries has an excuse, he is completely insane and likely suffers from dementia.

this guy is just a dick.... and a bit of an idiot.


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## Xaios (Oct 7, 2009)

Agreed, Devries is a moron who's mostly harmless as long as you don't give him your money. This other guy though, it looks like if you cross him in any way, shape or form, he'll actually go out of his way to try and ruin your life.


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## BlindingLight7 (Oct 7, 2009)

Xaios said:


> Agreed, Devries is a moron who's mostly harmless as long as you don't give him your money. This other guy though, it looks like if you cross him in any way, shape or form, he'll actually go out of his way to try and ruin your life.


Which each time he tries he just digs Himself deeper into His own pit of shit. Oh well, That's going to be his problem.


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## olsonuf (Nov 11, 2009)

He hasn't done much in the way of attacking ME personally lately, short of posting my picture with the caption "you gonna get raped" beneath it on his profile.

But I was contacted by someone, randomly, who wanted to let me know that *Halo Guitars* has written to Wintersong, demanding that they immediately cease production and sales of their Heathen guitar line due to its extreme similarity to Halo's GVK guitar line.

Note how Wintersong's sole proprietor stays true to his cocky attitude, posting his current mood as "amused" as they ridicule Halo's legal demands on MySpace:
Letter from Halo Guitars - Wintersong Guitars's MySpace Blog |


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 11, 2009)

Here's the GVK:






Here's the Heathen:





It looks like they just cheaped out and didn't do the carving. I was expecting them to ask for them to stop making the "Frostbitten.

Halo D-Spawn:





Wintersong Frostbitten:





I'm sorry to hear you're still having trouble with them. I hope Halo sues the fuck out of them.


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## olsonuf (Nov 11, 2009)

Wow! I'm surprised they didn't go after them for that one too! Well maybe Halo should have that pointed out to them as well... 

Thanks for your response, I appreciate your condolences. \m/


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## olsonuf (Nov 14, 2009)

Well fortunately for me, it looks like Wintersong only has room for _*one*_ attack campaign at a time, so they've now taken their website's front-page focus off of me (formerly my personal logo with "Scammer, Loser, Liar" below it) and put it onto Halo Guitars and their letter (complete with misspellings of course: "a threatning letter from Halo Guitars").


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## wannabguitarist (Nov 15, 2009)

Halo and Wintersong probably get their bodies from the same Chinese wholesale factory


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 15, 2009)

Yeah really, who do you cheer for in a battle like that? It would be like watching Hitler and George Bush going at it. In the end, you just hope they kill each other off.


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## DevinShidaker (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm pretty sure nobody could make Halo look any worse than they already do lol. Talking trash on them on their website is pointless, it would be like them posting a new campaign saying "The sky, blue, big, and full of clouds".


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## courtney2018 (Nov 15, 2009)

Wow, what a disaster. The whole thing about Halo writing to Wintersong is funny. Man, what a mess.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 15, 2009)

Perhaps, this is a good thing, at least they aren't talking shit about you [Jason]. At the moment at least. Maybe they'll have bigger fish to fry, and this could lead to you getting some kind of resolution.


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## courtney2018 (Nov 15, 2009)

I did some looking around on Halo's site. Apparently C.C. Deville is an endorser? Check out the NAMM pics. I was shocked to see Tony MacAlpine in there too.


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## newamerikangospel (Nov 15, 2009)

From what I understand, if you report a company/entity for this sort of action (fraud/false advertisement, slander/libel, ect) to the better business bureau, then they are no longer able to get a business loan until the issue has been resended by the party that presented it. 

Have you tried going to the better business bureau?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 15, 2009)

newamerikangospel said:


> From what I understand, if you report a company/entity for this sort of action (fraud/false advertisement, slander/libel, ect) to the better business bureau, then they are no longer able to get a business loan until the issue has been resended by the party that presented it.
> 
> Have you tried going to the better business bureau?



The problem with that, and the BBB in general, from my experience is that it just takes so long, and so much foot work, for the BBB to really crack down and place restrictions. 

They do work in the long run though.


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## Hollowway (Nov 16, 2009)

courtney2018 said:


> I did some looking around on Halo's site. Apparently C.C. Deville is an endorser? Check out the NAMM pics. I was shocked to see Tony MacAlpine in there too.



Yeah, I don't know how they come up with who to endorse. There are so many different endorsing deals out there. I don't think Tony MacAlpine endorses them, though.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 16, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't know how they come up with who to endorse. There are so many different endorsing deals out there. I don't think Tony MacAlpine endorses them, though.



That's where wording becomes so important. They call them "Artists", but really, any musician can be classified as such. 

They would never use the term endorsee, because that would be false. 

Though, I think what they're trying to get across is that those "Artists" own a Halo guitar, not particularly use one, and in the case of the bigger names, I'm sure they didn't pay for it. 

This is a fairly common practice for guitar companies, especially the smaller ones who need to stretch the truth a little bit for some publicity/name dropping.


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## courtney2018 (Nov 16, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't know how they come up with who to endorse. There are so many different endorsing deals out there. I don't think Tony MacAlpine endorses them, though.




No, I don't think so either. I think Tony is strictly a Carvin artist. I mean, why would he drop Carvin to hook up with a crappy Chinese made guitar company, you know?





MaxOfMetal said:


> That's where wording becomes so important. They call them "Artists", but really, any musician can be classified as such.
> 
> They would never use the term endorsee, because that would be false.
> 
> ...




Yea, good point. Seems fair enough. I give you a guitar and then I put your name on my website.


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## signalgrey (Nov 16, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Here's the GVK:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the heathren looks like an ESP F series with a chunk missing on the butt end.


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## audibleE (Nov 16, 2009)

The Halo guitars are quite boring.


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## olsonuf (Nov 6, 2011)

Just an update....we settled this issue out of court and I have been paid back.


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## Masadar (Nov 6, 2011)

AWESOME to hear!


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## OrsusMetal (Nov 6, 2011)

olsonuf said:


> Just an update....we settled this issue out of court and I have been paid back.



About time, dude! I was wondering what happened with this. I'm glad I didn't go any further with them.


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## Qweklain (Nov 6, 2011)

olsonuf said:


> Just an update....we settled this issue out of court and I have been paid back.


Sounds great, but too bad it took two freakin' years!

Did he own up at all publicly to slandering you for his mistakes?


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## olsonuf (Nov 6, 2011)

Qweklain said:


> Sounds great, but too bad it took two freakin' years!
> 
> Did he own up at all publicly to slandering you for his mistakes?



No, he didn't go that far.  

I agreed to accept a refund of $300 without sending the guitar back. Since it has DiMarzio Blaze Custom and Neck pickups in it, I basically subtracted their value from the purchase price and rounded it off to an even $300. In the end I received $325, which actually brings it closer to the actual difference.


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## great_kthulu (Nov 6, 2011)

Good to hear you settled! Also, I recently purchased a Halo inverted and love it. the Lee brothers were very good to work with. I'm happy they called this asshole out.


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## Anaerob (Nov 6, 2011)

olsonuf said:


> Just an update....we settled this issue out of court and I have been paid back.



While reading this thread tonight, my first thought was something like "bump of doom", but reading this post feels so good... I can't even begin to imagine how you'd feel.

This thread made my stomach turn, I'm glad things worked out for you... Atleast a little bit.


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## Xaios (Nov 7, 2011)

Well, I would have hoped you'd take him for a bit more (his house, for example), but if you're happy, then we're happy. 

I had actually just recently been wondering what happened with this. I log on, and BAM! Thread is looking right back at me. Excellent timing, chap.


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## Pikka Bird (Nov 7, 2011)

After reading through this whole thread I also hoped you'd have taken him for all he's worth and then some, but I can appreciate that almost no one wants to take a case to court and risk being faced with some star attorney that will rip you up because you can't afford _good_ legal council. This outcome is at least somewhat pleasing, considering how many people end up with jack shit.

I know a fair bunch of players who are totally amazing but at the same time don't have the slightest sense of what looks good. One guy wouldn't even notice if his own bass was suddenly red instead of green, and that's probably not even an exaggeration, honestly. So I'm sure a lot of people would think the initial photographic offerings looked pretty good (even if they really really didn't) and jumped at the chance to get something custom.

Just checked their MySpace...
This just made my day... a rose wood, Zlm and malp laminated body?


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## olsonuf (Nov 7, 2011)

Anaerob said:


> While reading this thread tonight, my first thought was something like "bump of doom", but reading this post feels so good... I can't even begin to imagine how you'd feel.
> 
> This thread made my stomach turn, I'm glad things worked out for you... Atleast a little bit.



It does feel good, but holy CRAP it took a lot of work to get to that point. All it took was insane determination on my part, and ignoring everyone saying "dude you're never gonna see that money". Glad I didn't listen.


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## Strawberry Man (Nov 10, 2011)

Pikka Bird said:


> Just checked their MySpace...
> This just made my day... a rose wood, Zlm and malp laminated body?


Zlm is the ultimate tone wood.


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## Painhawg (Nov 15, 2011)

Read this from front to back. It's amazing how many crazy people there are out there. Glad you got something back out of it all.


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## Anonymous (Nov 18, 2011)

I just got done reading this entire thread and I'm glad it worked out for you man. That guy sounds like one of the biggest assholes ever.


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