# The Official Pro-Wrestling Thread



## Randy

All things pro-wrestling go here. 

I know WWE's fallen out of favor with a lot of traditional wrestling fans, but big news lately was that Edge retired and he did it here in Albany. The farewell stuff was pretty touching, so now seemed as good a time as any to post it.



After they went off the air and he drops character:


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## CooleyJr

I had no idea that Edge left! That's pretty damn surprising man.


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## Randy

Yes sir. Made me kinda sad because he was a favorite of mine when I was younger, but he had a legit dangerous neck problem and they couldn't clear him to wrestle anymore.


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## CooleyJr

Oh shit, I had no idea..  He was a favorite of mine as well. Last year I was enjoying the wars between Edge/Orton and HHH/Michaels. Watching Edge wrestle, you'd never know he had a neck problem that serious.


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## Rick

Very sad to see Edge leave but definitely the better way. 

I prefer TNA myself, but I grew up watching Sting so take that for what it's worth.


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## Bloody_Inferno

I remember watching Edge's debut match in 98. It was awesome to see him go the distance over the years. So it's quite that he had to retire under those circumstances.


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## Randy

Wasn't his original storyline that he was a roadie for Motley Crue during their first reunion thing?


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## Triple-J

I'm not sure why but I've never been a fan of Edge really although I do respect him hanging it up instead of carrying on while injured and putting in sub par performances for the rest of his career but didn't Shawn Michaels retire back in the 90's under similar conditions? 



Randy said:


> Wasn't his original storyline that he was a roadie for Motley Crue during their first reunion thing?



IIRC that was Test whereas Edge and his "brother" Christian were originally part of some type of vampire clan with Gangrel (remember him?)


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## synrgy

Good call on the Gangrel/'Brood' angle. 

I haven't watched this stuff in years, really. I grew up with it, but my last good run with it was during the WCW/WWE wars with the NWO angles and the Steve Austin/Rock feuds. I was definitely stoked recently to see the Rock return, though, and I'm also sad to see Edge's career come to a rather abrupt end like this.

I remember all too well how epic those tag matches between Edge/Christian & the Hardy Boys were back then. Some of the best matches I've ever seen, really. Right up there with the great feuds like Jericho/Malenko, Austin/Rock, Bret Hart/Mr Perfect, Undertaker/Mankind and so on.

I've recently been getting back into it a little; They put a bunch of WWE home video stuff on Netflix Instant View. It started as I re-visited that documentary about the Bret Hart incident called Wrestling With Shadows. Since then, it's been kinda like a little stroll down memory lane, watching the History of Wrestlemania and the Top 50 Superstars of All Time.

Speaking of which, am I alone in being completely bewildered by the amount of love Shawn Michaels gets within the industry? WHY?!?! The Rockers sucked ass, and Shawn was never any good as a singles wrestler either. I always thought he was boring in the ring, and even worse on the microphone. In that 'Top 50 Superstars' thing, he was ranked #1. Of all time. Above Hogan. Above Flair. Above the Rock. Above HHH. Above Sammartino, Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Undertaker, and on and on.. I know that favorites are subject to opinion, but I feel like Michaels was in no way even remotely on the same level as all of the others I just mentioned, not to mention the hundreds of greats I didn't mention.

Sorry for the rant, but looking forward to watching this thread unfold.


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## Konfyouzd

R Truth... Evil now? I think I like him more already. The rapping thing was uhh...


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## Randy

Konfyouzd said:


> R Truth... Evil now? I think I like him more already. The rapping thing was uhh...



Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the _actual_ version of his theme song has the n' bomb in it 1,000 times.


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## Randy

synrgy said:


> Speaking of which, am I alone in being completely bewildered by the amount of love Shawn Michaels gets within the industry? WHY?!?! The Rockers sucked ass, and Shawn was never any good as a singles wrestler either. I always thought he was boring in the ring, and even worse on the microphone. In that 'Top 50 Superstars' thing, he was ranked #1. Of all time. Above Hogan. Above Flair. Above the Rock. Above HHH. Above Sammartino, Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Undertaker, and on and on.. I know that favorites are subject to opinion, but I feel like Michaels was in no way even remotely on the same level as all of the others I just mentioned, not to mention the hundreds of greats I didn't mention.



I think that mostly had to do with the longevity of his career and the fact he stayed agile and in great shape all the way to the end. I was never a big fan of his persona or his moves overall, but he played taking a hit really well and took the business end of quite a few high risk moves over his career.

Also, Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon for the Intercontinental Champion in a ladder match at Wrestlemania X.  That's wrestling history right there.


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## synrgy

Randy said:


> Also, Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon for the Intercontinental Champion in a ladder match at Wrestlemania X.  That's wrestling history right there.



Shit. You've totally got me there. I actually forgot about that match.

I take back *most* of what I said. I still don't understand the level of acclaim he gets (best of ALL TIME?!) but that match was fucking EPIC and by itself worth a spot on the top 50.


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## Bloody_Inferno

Randy said:


> I think that mostly had to do with the longevity of his career and the fact he stayed agile and in great shape all the way to the end. I was never a big fan of his persona or his moves overall, but he played taking a hit really well and took the business end of quite a few high risk moves over his career.
> 
> Also, Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon for the Intercontinental Champion in a ladder match at Wrestlemania X.  That's wrestling history right there.


 
Agreed. He was just one that developed over the years. Once he got D-Generation X going, there was no stopping. And there was some great matches he did with Ken Shamrock and The Undertaker during that time too.


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## synrgy

Bloody_Inferno said:


> And there was some great matches he did with Ken Shamrock



IMHO, Ken Shamrock never once put on a good match. Other wrestlers may have carried his dead-weight to a decent performance once or twice, but that wasn't his doing. 

Totally unrelated, I was doing some reading yesterday and found out that Mr Perfect's son (and daughter, apparently) are both currently in the biz. I'm surprised they don't play up the connection more. "McGillicutty" is a far cry from "Henning". I know Curt's death was one of many black eyes for the business, but you'd think the son of a legend would want people to know he was the son of a legend..

Unrelated again, I love that I'm old enough to remember some not-so-famous character runs from guys who later become VERY famous with different character runs.

Exhibit A:






Exhibit B:


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## Randy

synrgy said:


> Totally unrelated, I was doing some reading yesterday and found out that Mr Perfect's son (and daughter, apparently) are both currently in the biz. I'm surprised they don't play up the connection more. "McGillicutty" is a far cry from "Henning". I know Curt's death was one of many black eyes for the business, but you'd think the son of a legend would want people to know he was the son of a legend..



Yeah, he was on that turd of a replacement for ECW that Vince put out called NXT which was supposed to be his version of American Idol (AKA shot live, unlike Tough Enough). McGillicutty did tap into his dad's reputation a little throughout that series and he was good in the way his old man was (wrestling style) but he didn't have the physique and the persona to keep up.

+1 for an Isaac Yankem reference. 

JBL is another example of a dude that totally 180'd.


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## Triple-J

I think Hennig's kids may have wanted to avoid using the family name as the whole 2nd/3rd/etc generation superstar thing has become an incredibly overused gimmick especially in the WWF.

As for the pics I vaguely remember Isaac Yankem but I definitely remember "Stunning" Steve Austin in the Hollywood Blondes (I'm a big fan of early 90's WCW) and the legend that is Paulie Dangerously but has anyone noticed that "Stunning" Steve Austin when he was slimmer and had hair looks a bit like Chris Jericho?


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## synrgy

Triple-J said:


> As for the pics I vaguely remember Isaac Yankem



You might know him better as Kane.


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## Hollowman

My favorite and probably the greatest "big" man 6'5" 450lbs and toughest men to ever wrestle.






After him.






And by far the most entertaining IMO.






But the last time I watched wrestling was 2003. so, I have no clue what is going on, I know that I don't care for the WWE though.


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## Randy

Vader 

EDIT: Speaking of which, this dude always reminded me of him:

http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_The_Grater


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## synrgy

@ Goldberg. He's another one I never understood the popularity of. He had 2 moves: Suplex + Spear. That was it.


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## ZXIIIT

+1 on Vader, he was a MONSTER in Japan, extremely underused in WWF.

TNA is a hit and miss with me, they will have a good match once in a while and terrible matches/programming all the time.

Can't say I'm a fan of WWE anymore, specially now since they are cutting any ties to the word "wrestling" and very PG programming. I do watch Tough Enough and every Sin Cara match though 

I miss the 90s era of puroresu, Heyman's ECW and the monday night wars, made wrestling interesting and competitive..


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## Triple-J

Randy said:


> Vader
> 
> EDIT: Speaking of which, this dude always reminded me of him:
> 
> Alexander The Grater - Capcom Database - Capcom Wiki, Marvel vs Capcom, Street Fighter, Darkstalkers and more



Vader also inspired characters in various 90's beat'em ups and Raiden/Big Bear in the Fatal Fury/King of Fighters series too but Slam Masters was awesome though and Capcom really need to get off their ass and hire AKI to revamp it as they've successfully revived a lot of other titles recently plus there's no decent wrestling games anymore and the genre really needs a shake up. 

Even though I hate big guys in wrestling cause they are often overweight and have zero wrestling skills apart being able to pull off a chokeslam Vader is one of my favourites him Bam Bam Bigelow(especially his ECW era!) and Mike Awesome really set a standard that even now hasn't been matched and it's crazy that people think Rey Mysterio doing a top rope moonsault is impressive now cause all three of those guys could pull it off perfectly and they were over 6'3 and 300+ pounds.


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## synrgy

Bam Bam was a beast. It's a shame WWF/E never really knew what to do with him.

For the bigger guys, when I was younger I liked the Undertaker a lot. I remember his introduction and first several matches he wrestled in for the WWF/E. The first time I saw him do that thing where he walks across the top rope I recall being pretty floored by it. The feud he had with Mankind/Mick Foley was one of my all time favorites. That HITC match they had where Taker threw Mick off the top of the cage down onto the announcing table? 

Some time shortly after that, I lost interest. Right around the time they started the Kane angle, I just felt that Taker's in-ring performance was clearly past its peak, and then when they started screwing with his character and had him coming out to the ring on a motorcycle to Limp Bizkit's "Rollin'", I just didn't want to watch the guy at all any more.

When I was really little, Hulk Hogan was like a God. It's funny because now that I'm older, when I go back and try to watch his old matches -- let alone the last decade or so -- I find that he was _never_ a good wrestler; He just had charisma to spare. Still, I was a Hulkamaniac back in the day, for sure. I guess it started to waver when he lost to the Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania VI, and while he was still my favorite through the feud with Sgt. Slaughter, by the time he moved over to WCW I didn't want to see him any more. I was mortified when he joined NWO because I really enjoyed Hall & Nash and I knew he was going to change the whole dynamic up, which he did.

This is pretty much my new favorite thread. I hope more people start jumping in.


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## Rick

synrgy said:


> @ Goldberg. He's another one I never understood the popularity of. He had 2 moves: Suplex + Spear. That was it.



That's all he ever needed.


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## Bloody_Inferno

synrgy said:


> Bam Bam was a beast. It's a shame WWF/E never really knew what to do with him.
> 
> For the bigger guys, when I was younger I liked the Undertaker a lot. I remember his introduction and first several matches he wrestled in for the WWF/E. The first time I saw him do that thing where he walks across the top rope I recall being pretty floored by it. *The feud he had with Mankind/Mick Foley was one of my all time favorites. That HITC match they had where Taker threw Mick off the top of the cage down onto the announcing table? *



King of the Ring circa 98: that was WWF/E history right there, as one of the greatest wrestling matches in the history of everything. 



synrgy said:


> Some time shortly after that, I lost interest. Right around the time they started the Kane angle, I just felt that Taker's in-ring performance was clearly past its peak, and then when they started screwing with his character and had him coming out to the ring on a motorcycle to Limp Bizkit's "Rollin'", I just didn't want to watch the guy at all any more..



I'm just content in thinking that period of the Undertaker never happened.  Though Ain't No Grave is somewhat thematic, nothing touches this as one of my favorite entrance themes of them all:


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## mattofvengeance

synrgy said:


> Good call on the Gangrel/'Brood' angle.
> 
> I haven't watched this stuff in years, really. I grew up with it, but my last good run with it was during the WCW/WWE wars with the NWO angles and the Steve Austin/Rock feuds. I was definitely stoked recently to see the Rock return, though, and I'm also sad to see Edge's career come to a rather abrupt end like this.
> 
> I remember all too well how epic those tag matches between Edge/Christian & the Hardy Boys were back then. Some of the best matches I've ever seen, really. Right up there with the great feuds like Jericho/Malenko, Austin/Rock, Bret Hart/Mr Perfect, Undertaker/Mankind and so on.
> 
> I've recently been getting back into it a little; They put a bunch of WWE home video stuff on Netflix Instant View. It started as I re-visited that documentary about the Bret Hart incident called Wrestling With Shadows. Since then, it's been kinda like a little stroll down memory lane, watching the History of Wrestlemania and the Top 50 Superstars of All Time.
> 
> Speaking of which, am I alone in being completely bewildered by the amount of love Shawn Michaels gets within the industry? WHY?!?! The Rockers sucked ass, and Shawn was never any good as a singles wrestler either. I always thought he was boring in the ring, and even worse on the microphone. In that 'Top 50 Superstars' thing, he was ranked #1. Of all time. Above Hogan. Above Flair. Above the Rock. Above HHH. Above Sammartino, Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Undertaker, and on and on.. I know that favorites are subject to opinion, but I feel like Michaels was in no way even remotely on the same level as all of the others I just mentioned, not to mention the hundreds of greats I didn't mention.
> 
> Sorry for the rant, but looking forward to watching this thread unfold.



The majority of that Top 50 list is insane horseshit. Hogan is #1. There's no disputing that. He is synonymous with wrestling, and he helped the WWF AND the WCW's rises to popularity. That said, saying Shawn Michaels was never good as a singles wrestler is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. He's somewhere in the top five without a doubt, and if you saw his Hall of Fame induction, you'd see the immense amount of respect his colleagues and fans have for him. He was charismatic, the show-stopper, the main event, Mr. Wrestlemania. Randy already brought up the Ladder match, but the Iron Man match with Bret Hart at Wrestlemania XII is one of the best matches of all time. Not to mention his matches with Angle, Jericho and the two Wrestlemania matches with the Undertaker. The dude is a wrestling legend, and there is absolutely no denying that.


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## synrgy

mattofvengeance said:


> The majority of that Top 50 list is insane horseshit. Hogan is #1. There's no disputing that. He is synonymous with wrestling, and he helped the WWF AND the WCW's rises to popularity. That said, saying Shawn Michaels was never good as a singles wrestler is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. He's somewhere in the top five without a doubt, and if you saw his Hall of Fame induction, you'd see the immense amount of respect his colleagues and fans have for him. He was charismatic, the show-stopper, the main event, Mr. Wrestlemania. Randy already brought up the Ladder match, but the Iron Man match with Bret Hart at Wrestlemania XII is one of the best matches of all time. Not to mention his matches with Angle, Jericho and the two Wrestlemania matches with the Undertaker. The dude is a wrestling legend, and there is absolutely no denying that.



It's probably my piss poor memory that's at fault, here. Maybe it's selective memory, but I always felt like Vince gave Shawn all the pushes while it was the guys Shawn wrestled against who _really_ carried him. You brought up great examples with Hart and 'Taker. HHH is another great example. I feel like Michaels into DX was like Hogan into NWO; They got lumped in with better wrestlers who actually had ideas relevant to the social climate of the times (not just 'good vs evil' like the old school was), presumably in order to lengthen their waning relevance. Without HHH's in-ring abilities and Road-Dogg's microphone skills, I wouldn't have given 2 shits about DX, with or without Michaels.

Or, maybe I just hated him because of this:







Seriously, her voice was like nails on a chalk board, to me.


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## mattofvengeance

The best part of Edge's farewell. 



Literally got tears in my eyes watching this.


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## synrgy

The 9 Most Unintentionally Depressing Pro Wrestling Gimmicks | Cracked.com

I *completely* forgot about the OZ angle. Young Kevin Nash for the lulz.


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## Bloody_Inferno

There's this too:

5 Reasons Pro Wrestlers are the Best Actors in the World | Cracked.com


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## Triple-J

I'm a little late to chime in on the topic of Shawn Michaels but I think an unspoken aspect of why he gets pushed as a legend is that he's a 100% WWF creation and unlike a lot of other WWF stars was never part of that mass exodus to WCW during the 90's and has always remained loyal to the company through thick and thin and his reputation is his reward for that, plus all those guys leaving WWF for WCW helped his career really as it meant they had to create new stars and put someone in the spotlight which Hogan, Savage etc had vacated and that guy just happened to be Shawn Michaels.


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## BigPhi84

I still think that the best match ever was Owen Hart vs. the British Bulldog for the European Championship!

I used to watch wrestling as a kid, but lost touch around 2003. I try to watch it every once in a while, but I'm completely lost. Some of these new "bigshots" these days are shit IMO.

It amuses me that you athiest, metal fuckers used to watch wrestling too! I guess we can all make believe sometimes.  LOL. j/k Seriously, though. Thanks goes to the OP. I read this whole thread and reminisced about a time gone by. Remember Gorilla Monsoon? Mean Gene Okerlund and Michael Buffer? I wonder if Taka Michinoku is still wrestling. 


Favorite finishing move? Mine is the Razor's Edge. That, or Ahmed Johnson's move (I forgot what it's called.)


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## Triple-J

The pearl river plunge!!!


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## soliloquy

so....any fans of TNA here?
i personally was VERY happy when TNA first started airing on tv as it was everything that WWE wasn't. i missed WWF, WCW and ECW. WWE just turned its back on the fans and that really annoyed me. no longer were werestlers wrestling but sparring. yeah, i know a bit of wrestling is staged and thats fine. however, they are going beyond the staged part and now they aren't even considered 'wrestlers' anymore but 'stars'. 

some of the guys there can do some amazing stuff, but you wont see that happen as the cameras keep changing so its really annoying.

story lines are on a convaery belt and are on a 2 month repeat cycle, if that. 

now, its more important to have the most amount of title runs than one long title run. i mean, no offence to edge, but he had 11 title runs? now count how many these guys had: the rock, stone cold, bret hart, razor ramon, nash, flair, and so many more. even kane and taker have far less...

belts like the intercontinental and european are meaningless now...everything about WWE is just meaninigless...kind of a shame.

now TNA, a few years before hogan joined in, i thought was brilliant! great wrestlers, great story lines, great matches etc. but hogan single handedly ruined the company and failed to live up to his promise on so many grounds! he said he will improve the company and bring in ratings. fail and fail! he said he would step down if the company doesn't improve, fail! and he continues to live in the past and its really annoying!


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## Konfyouzd

soliloquy said:


> so....any fans of TNA here?
> i personally was VERY happy when TNA first started airing on tv as it was everything that WWE wasn't. i missed WWF, WCW and ECW. WWE just turned its back on the fans and that really annoyed me. no longer were werestlers wrestling but sparring. yeah, i know a bit of wrestling is staged and thats fine. however, they are going beyond the staged part and now they aren't even considered 'wrestlers' anymore but 'stars'.
> 
> some of the guys there can do some amazing stuff, but you wont see that happen as the cameras keep changing so its really annoying.
> 
> story lines are on a convaery belt and are on a 2 month repeat cycle, if that.
> 
> now, its more important to have the most amount of title runs than one long title run. i mean, no offence to edge, but he had 11 title runs? now count how many these guys had: the rock, stone cold, bret hart, razor ramon, nash, flair, and so many more. even kane and taker have far less...
> 
> belts like the intercontinental and european are meaningless now...everything about WWE is just meaninigless...kind of a shame.
> 
> now TNA, a few years before hogan joined in, i thought was brilliant! great wrestlers, great story lines, great matches etc. but hogan single handedly ruined the company and failed to live up to his promise on so many grounds! he said he will improve the company and bring in ratings. fail and fail! he said he would step down if the company doesn't improve, fail! and he continues to live in the past and its really annoying!



I only like Monty Brown bc he had the most hilarious finisher to me. Not a tackle or a spear... He just runs THROUGH you.


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## synrgy

Triple-J said:


> I'm a little late to chime in on the topic of Shawn Michaels but I think an unspoken aspect of why he gets pushed as a legend is that he's a 100% WWF creation and unlike a lot of other WWF stars was never part of that mass exodus to WCW during the 90's and has always remained loyal to the company through thick and thin and his reputation is his reward for that, plus all those guys leaving WWF for WCW helped his career really as it meant they had to create new stars and put someone in the spotlight which Hogan, Savage etc had vacated and that guy just happened to be Shawn Michaels.



I dunno how fair that is. IIRC, he was on the injured list for a large portion of the time that the WCW/WWE feud was taking place. I mean sure, he was still on camera, but how often did he actually wrestle during that era? Not trying to piss on the guy; just playing Devil's Advocate, I guess. In other words, had he been 100% ring-healthy, who's to say he wouldn't have joined his buddies Hall & Nash when they made the jump to WCW? I mean, I don't think anyone can argue that DX was just a WWE version of NWO. 

Also, I'd say the guys who most benefited from the split at the time were Steve Austin, The Rock and HHH, but that's just my opinion.


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## ZXIIIT

synrgy said:


> I dunno how fair that is. IIRC, he was on the injured list for a large portion of the time that the WCW/WWE feud was taking place. I mean sure, he was still on camera, but how often did he actually wrestle during that era? Not trying to piss on the guy; just playing Devil's Advocate, I guess. In other words, had he been 100% ring-healthy, who's to say he wouldn't have joined his buddies Hall & Nash when they made the jump to WCW? I mean, I don't think anyone can argue that DX was just a WWE version of NWO.
> 
> Also, I'd say the guys who most benefited from the split at the time were Steve Austin, The Rock and HHH, but that's just my opinion.



And The Undertaker.


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## soliloquy

synrgy said:


> I dunno how fair that is. IIRC, he was on the injured list for a large portion of the time that the WCW/WWE feud was taking place. I mean sure, he was still on camera, but how often did he actually wrestle during that era? Not trying to piss on the guy; just playing Devil's Advocate, I guess. In other words, had he been 100% ring-healthy, who's to say he wouldn't have joined his buddies Hall & Nash when they made the jump to WCW? I mean, I don't think anyone can argue that DX was just a WWE version of NWO.
> 
> Also, I'd say the guys who most benefited from the split at the time were Steve Austin, The Rock and HHH, but that's just my opinion.



to add to that, i wont really consider HBK as hall of fame material, as in my books, he didn't push anyone, nor did he create anyone. since the very beginning, it was all him, him him him him. its still not too late, so maybe he'll come back to coach or mentor someone, but during his 20 years career, he never bothered helping anyone along the way, unlike guys like Flair, hogan (during his mid career), austin, hart, mick foley etc. 

HHH i feel much the same as well. yes, i LOVE HHH, but i still wont consider him hall of fame material. moreso due to nepotism. i mean, where was he without vince/steph? his character was to play an aristocrat who hated everything as they were all too poor to him (but he bowed down to them after every move....).


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## Triple-J

In defence of HHH when he was a goofy aristocrat it's worth noting that was Mcmahon's fault as he's in charge and lumbered lots of wrestlers with really bad gimmicks during the mid 90's like the Rock with that horrible perm & flowery outfit, Steve Austin as the Ringmaster, Mankind, Edge and Christian being "brothers" Kane being able to control fire etc. 

Thing is that most of the guys who really make it in WWE are saddled with a crap gimmick but they break away from it and form their own character a great example is Steve Austin who was brought in as a jobber but once he got on the mic he blew it up and they had no choice but to start pushing a guy they originally had little faith in. 

On another note I'm more a fan of TNA these days but I watched WWE recently and I really like Alberto Del Rio as he's quite a change from the bland faceless guys with porn star type names the WWE seem to be keen on now, plus he reminds me a lot of the classic heels I grew up on like Rick Rude (surely this guy deserves an award for the greatest abs of all time?) and Mr Perfect that were all about being arrogant and really pissing off the crowd to make an impact.


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## soliloquy

Triple-J said:


> In defence of HHH when he was a goofy aristocrat it's worth noting that was Mcmahon's fault as he's in charge and lumbered lots of wrestlers with really bad gimmicks during the mid 90's like the Rock with that horrible perm & flowery outfit, Steve Austin as the Ringmaster, Mankind, Edge and Christian being "brothers" Kane being able to control fire etc.
> 
> Thing is that most of the guys who really make it in WWE are saddled with a crap gimmick but they break away from it and form their own character a great example is Steve Austin who was brought in as a jobber but once he got on the mic he blew it up and they had no choice but to start pushing a guy they originally had little faith in.
> 
> On another note I'm more a fan of TNA these days but I watched WWE recently and I really like Alberto Del Rio as he's quite a change from the bland faceless guys with porn star type names the WWE seem to be keen on now, plus he reminds me a lot of the classic heels I grew up on like Rick Rude (surely this guy deserves an award for the greatest abs of all time?) and Mr Perfect that were all about being arrogant and really pissing off the crowd to make an impact.




i'm HATING how wwe doesn't really have any heels nor faces anymore. everyone is in this annoying gray area where sometimes they are heels, and othertimes they are face, and it really doesn't 'pop' the crowd the least. 

take randy for example. great guy, great wrestler. everyone loves him in the back as he demands justice and wants everyone to get fair and equal timing and blah blah blah....but he comes out and RKOs a heel and he gets great pop from the crowd. then he RKOs a face, and its the same thing. 

i still say that in the recent wrestlers that came in the last 15 years, the best heel in my books has been HHH. i LOVED him during the 'power trip' stable with austin (i really started loving him after he tore his leg). i loved him when he fough tHBK. i loved him when he was the denim wearing HHH. i love him when he came back after the invasion angle etc etc....but then WWE pussied him out


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## Triple-J

I know what you mean about Randy Orton as I do like him but he just seems to be stuck playing a pg rated version of Stone Cold right now plus when he starts getting ready to do an RKO it's the most unintentionally hilarious thing ever cause slapping the floor while writhing about and gyrating like a stripper just isn't scary.
To be fair to Orton though quite a few other wrestlers seem to be playing weaker versions of past performers too as Cena is Hulk Hogan all over again and Jack Swagger is just a poor mans Kurt Angle minus the technical wrestling skill.

As for HHH I totally agree with you as he's been my favourite heel of the past 10 years and for quite a while he was really exciting to watch as his character just seemed to be getting more devious by the week no matter what was happening around him though I think that the revival of DX really killed him off and they shouldn't have done it without X-Pac and Road Dogg etc anyway.


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## soliloquy

no, i think its PG 13 that killed off HHH. and even then, PG13 does not make sense when DX is around. i mean, the very notion of people giving each other blow jobs, and their theme song saying 'does anybody know who's sleeping with who?!' (the original song) is just to negate the entire PG13...so its almost laughable. 

but i would disagree about cena. i HATE him! he isn't a wrestler but a body builder. nothing really bad with taht as thats what Val Veinis and others were. however, before the rock came back, Cena was the EXACT same character as Stone Cold AND the Rock with a hint of hogan in him. austin in the sense that he could do no wrong. even when cena was trying to play heel, people loved him. he was face, and people loved him. his mic skills rival the rock (though the rock has some AMAZING energy to him!). and living a 'wholesome' life like hogan and bs... but i think cena would make an AMAZING heel, but WWE is just stupid and wont allow it. they teased the idea when he joined nexus...but he had to play the hero to save all and bs...

another thing i dont like about wwe is that they think their fans are stupid. recently when cena was 'fired' they forgot to take off all mics and other head pieces off of cena when he was 'FU'ing the nexus guys on cars. its other small attention to details that piss me off about it. 

and seriously, what are they doing to the divas division!? at one point you had women like lita and trish doing amazing matches that lasted for at least 10 minutes! now, its usually 5 on 5 divas matches taht last no longer than a minute...the fuck?! and all of them are designed to be fuck dolls. like back when the great khali was new and fighting cena, the divas were lined up to interview who would win the match, and i remember kelly kelly saying 'cena cena or khali khali? i'll go with khali khali coz he sounds more like kelly kelly! he he!' and someone else said 'i hope khali wins coz "big guys" are better'....sure reminds me of barbie....

wwe is just stupid in terms of using their talent right.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Man I feel old and out of touch with some of the new faces. A lot of the new stars don't feel so memorable to me, IMO the only one of the new guys that left a lasting impression is Kurt Angle. I just don't get John Cena, Randy Orton etc... I guess it's just me. 

I was also talking to a few friends about some of the tragic casualties that WWE's had in history. Guys like Bam Bam Bigelow, Mr Perfect/Curt Hennig, Andrew 'Test' Martin, Eddie Guerero and Chris Benoit... The amount of matches, touring, drugs, it's almost parallel to being a rock star. There was an old interview with Jake The Snake that I only just recently saw, that sent chills down my spine. 

And then there was that Brett Hart documentary that was the first thing that opened my eyes to the darker side of pro-wrestling entertainment.


----------



## soliloquy

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Man I feel old and out of touch with some of the new faces. A lot of the new stars don't feel so memorable to me, IMO the only one of the new guys that left a lasting impression is Kurt Angle. I just don't get John Cena, Randy Orton etc... I guess it's just me.
> 
> I was also talking to a few friends about some of the tragic casualties that WWE's had in history. Guys like Bam Bam Bigelow, Mr Perfect/Curt Hennig, Andrew 'Test' Martin, Eddie Guerero and Chris Benoit... The amount of matches, touring, drugs, it's almost parallel to being a rock star. There was an old interview with Jake The Snake that I only just recently saw, that sent chills down my spine.
> 
> And then there was that Brett Hart documentary that was the first thing that opened my eyes to the darker side of pro-wrestling entertainment.



wwe was actually VERY close to putting kurt on that list as well. they shit they were making him go through was insane. its ironic that when the rock and stone cold and bret hart, HHH, HBK, Taker and kane were taken out during the invasion angle, WWE used kurt as a work horse. the entire company revolved around him. 

he comes to TNA, and its much the same, but he enjoys TNA as they actually take care of him. 

hulk hogan was another wrestler WWE almost killed off too. his documentary is pretty interesting as well, though i hate the guy...but i gave him just a bit more respect due to that documentary... 



what are your thoughts on Y2J?


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Admittedly, Chris Jericho's Y2J introduction was when I started losing interest in pro-wrestling, so I can't comment, nor be aware of what was going on behind the scenes. Prior to that, there were some fond memories between his feud with Dean Malenko on WCW....

...which reminded me: Jericho's feud with Chyna made me remember the fact that X-Pac and Chyna did a sex tape... a fact I didn't need to know about at all.


----------



## synrgy

So this thread kinda reinvigorated my interest. I've been doing lots of reading and doc. watching, trying to catch up with stuff I've missed.

I was pretty pissed off this morning when I found out that it was a botched kick to the head from Goldberg that ultimately ended Bret Hart's career. 

Anybody here playing WWE All Stars on 360? It's a lot of fun.


----------



## ridner

"Macho Man" Randy Savage is dead, at only 58 years old, following a car accident in his home of Tampa Bay, Florida.

TMZ reports Savage, one of the most popular and flamboyant wrestlers in the sport, suffered a heart attack behind the wheel and lost control of his vehicle.

Starting with the WWF (now WWE) in 1985, Savage enjoyed one of the longer careers in the business, faking multiple retirements, holding grudges in high profile feuds and even enjoying time as a color commentator when he wasn't busy in the ring.

He is survived by his wife of only one year, Lynn Payne.


----------



## highlordmugfug




----------



## Customisbetter

He went right...


----------



## Blake1970

he went way to early... R.I.P.


----------



## ittoa666

This sucks big time.


----------



## fretninjadave

heres a little conversaton i just had with a friend of mine

*James Warren* angels wont stand a chance until ultimate warrior enters the heavenly ring. 28 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personBen Garcia likes this.

<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860788 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *Dave Oh* or greatest tag team in the history of the universe 22 minutes ago · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860801 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *James Warren* hell yeah! they will be unstoppable! 19 minutes ago · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860811 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *Dave Oh* God recruited Macho Man to put the smack down tomarrow when the rapture begins! so from now on its not Rapture it's
MACHO MADDNESSSS!!!! 16 minutes ago · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860816 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *James Warren* dude... i was hoping for zombies but if macho man starts flying around on his newfound angel wings we're all fucked... 14 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading...


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860821 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *James Warren* &#8206;200ft high elbow drops on us all 14 minutes ago · LikeUnlike


<LI class="uiUfiComment comment_2860840 ufiItem ufiItem">

 *Dave Oh* It will be so BEAUTIFUL you wont be able to look away. Even as the elbow smashes down upon THEE with Great Vengance and Furious Anger! 11 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...


----------



## ZXIIIT

RIP "Macho Man" Randy Savage  58 is too early.


----------



## synrgy

One of my favorite wrestlers, and a personality my generation will always remember.

One of the best feuds producing some of the best matches in the history of the business was Savage vs Steamboat:


----------



## mhickman2

This is indeed sad news. I'm pretty sure at some point tonight I will raise my glass and say, "Ohhhh Yeeeeeah!".


----------



## mountainjam

Bummer, wwe was alot better back in the day


----------



## GuitaristOfHell




----------



## MFB

OOOOHHHHH NNNNNOOOOO


----------



## mountainjam

It just occured to me slim jims will never be the same now


----------



## Guitarman700

RIP dude, Really sucks to die so young.


----------



## Volsung

It's times like this that make it really hard to be a wrestling fan. This sort of thing happens way too often in the buisness. Pro wrestling wouldn't be anything today if "Macho Man" didn't step up and give 100% everytime in every way. 

It's so sad to see one of the most _important_ figures in wrestling gone. If there is an after-life, I'd like to think Randy, Andre "the Giant" and too many others are reminicing about their era, which is arguably one of the best ever. 

RIP Randy.


----------



## Guitarman700




----------



## Meatbucket

Very relevant. RIP. Macho Man. I will eat a Slim Jim for you.


----------



## Guitarman700

SLIM JIMS ALL WEEK.


----------



## soliloquy

Macho man is dead 
i think he was in talks with TNA or WWE for a final run for a short period



synrgy said:


> So this thread kinda reinvigorated my interest. I've been doing lots of reading and doc. watching, trying to catch up with stuff I've missed.
> 
> I was pretty pissed off this morning when I found out that it was a botched kick to the head from Goldberg that ultimately ended Bret Hart's career.
> 
> Anybody here playing WWE All Stars on 360? It's a lot of fun.



you may find it interesting to see the rumors surrounding HHH and HBK and their hypocracy. when stiner was being forced to take a steroid test, he agreed to it, but said 'i'll go, but right after HHH'. wwe pulled out right away. and as for HBK, as big a 'born again Christian' he claims to be, his drug use in the back is just insane. which is also very hypocritical of WWE. they fired other guys for far less, yet they wont fire their big name, rather they wont even bother questioning him.

elijha burke/the pope said it really nicely when he was asked about his time in WWE. he laughed and then said 'honestly, if you, the young fans ever want to enter WWE as a job, make sure you have a degree, a masters or PHd in politics first! wrestling skills or merit dont matter to them'


i HATE all wwe/wwf/tna games! especially any that came before and after WWF no mercy. reason why NO MERCY was kick ass:
1) it followed physics: rey mysterio can NOT under any circumstances lift the Big Show! but no mercy showed big show easily lifting the smaller guys, while the smaller guys like taka had a hernia after trying to lift the big guys. 
2) blood! seriously, it doesn't matter how many times i hit the fuckers with chairs, they dont bleed! in no wrestling games do people bleed. but in no mercy, what was awesome is that if you caused your opponent to bleed, he/she would start to fatigue much faster. however, in recent games, even if you hit your opponent with 20 specials, dont be surprised if they get up and pin you with a school-boy/girl or a yakuza kick or something lame


----------



## nostealbucket

Dean's going to make him a signature model?! WHAT?!?

Bad time to make a joke...


----------



## soliloquy

alas!


----------



## SirMyghin

Dang, 58 is so young...


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

You shall be missed Macho Man! 



Even his nWo theme was badass.


----------



## soliloquy

if i'm not mistaken, i think he was in talks with TNA and/or WWE for his one last run as well


----------



## Sebastian

R.I.P.


----------



## Guitarman700




----------



## Guitarman700

Greatest Promo ever.


----------



## synrgy




----------



## synrgy

Nice article:

Bill Simmons: Macho Man brought together the die-hards, the bandwagon fans and the '80s - ESPN


----------



## soliloquy

synrgy said:


> Nice article:
> 
> Bill Simmons: Macho Man brought together the die-hards, the bandwagon fans and the '80s - ESPN



i should be studying for an exam and a project due tomorrow...but that really was a great read! lots of great memories there


----------



## synrgy

So.. like I mentioned before, this thread really helped re-invigorate my interest in wrestling, and I've been doing tons of catching up, watching old events and trying to keep up with current events at the same time.

Having just watched several of his matches for the first time in more than a decade, I have to officially recant my previous opinions about Shawn Michaels. While he may not be one of my favorites, having re-watched quite a few of his matches I have to admit he's the real deal.

In other words -- Egg on face: I has it.


----------



## Konfyouzd

What the fuck happened with CM Punk last night? Was he really angry? They cut him off rather abruptly and just never said anything about it again. Seems like he might have been having a real heart to heart moment w/ the crowd.


----------



## synrgy

Konfyouzd said:


> What the fuck happened with CM Punk last night? Was he really angry? They cut him off rather abruptly and just never said anything about it again. Seems like he might have been having a real heart to heart moment w/ the crowd.



Ton of articles floating around about that this morning. The general consensus seems to be that it was a worked shoot interview. IE, it was at least partially scripted, with the full intent of making people think it wasn't. Punk did a brilliant job selling the spot. Apparently he was 'suspended' immediately after the show abruptly went off the air.



Spoiler



Now, apparently they taped next week's episode of Raw immediately after this week's, and some fans in attendance have reported on what transpires. Word has it that on next week's show Cena refuses to wrestle if Punk is not re-instated, so Vince reinstates Punk. Vince then adds a stipulation to their match at MITB, stating that if Cena loses, he's fired, as Punk absolutely must not leave the company with the title. This -- in theory -- could set up 'The Chicago Screwjob' ala the Hart/Michaels/McMahon 'Montreal Screwjob' from back in the day. If that happens, it would be a prime opportunity to finally give Cena a much needed heel turn.



Of the 'current' Superstars (IE any of the dudes on the roster now who I didn't know in the 90's) Punk is quickly becoming my favorite, so I hope he doesn't really leave the company. I do like the business, but I don't have the time or the inclination to follow the smaller promotions outside of WWE.. Especially not TNA, which seems to just be where all the washed up old timers go to fade away under the same cliche bits that were being used in the Monday Night Wars era.


----------



## Konfyouzd

^ You know... I really don't like CM Punk much. I liked R Truth when he FIRST went crazy. I even dug Miz for a while when he was going after John Cena, but to be honest, I think my favorite person(s) on that show now is the Bella Twins. 

My favorite male superstar is totally Evan Bourne, though. Gotta root for the underdog. Plus he laid the smackdown on that asshat Jack Swagger.


----------



## BigPhi84

To all my fellow wresting fans, what is this hold called?








(For those that aren't in the know, that's me and Nobuo Uematsu of Final Fantasy fame)


----------



## synrgy

The abdominal stretch, or some variation of it?


----------



## Volsung

Now that the 'Money in the Bank' PPV is over, the winner and new WWE champ is CM Punk. This is fantastic, but that isn't as important as Daniel Bryan (Bryan Danielson) winning the first MITB match of the night! Now (hopefully) a heavyweight title run is in his future. He deserves it seeing as he is one the the most technically sound pro wrestlers in the biz today. 

_I apologize in advance for the ensuing little rant_

It's nice to see WWE slowly (and I mean slowly) giving more spotlight to guys who can actually _work_ in the ring. That's more than I can say for TNA, seeing as how the X Division is starting to fade into obscurity and embarressment. Ever since Hogan came in the picture, the X Division & anyone else who can _work_ have been pushed to the side and made into a joke. For example, what company *lets* a young, great tag team like Generation ME *leave* their company!? That helps prove the fact that TNA only caters to old fossils and WWE left overs anymore. And they used to be so cool...

_End of rant...for now..._

I think I'll stop here for now. Otherwise I'd take up a couple terabites of pure wresting jargin.


----------



## synrgy

Last night was the first time I watched a live PPV in almost 15 years. It was WWE's big chance to win me back over, or lose me again for at least a while.

They _definitely_ won be back over. Last night's show was what it's all about; Keeping us guessing about the 'story', whilst also giving us solid in-ring action. I haven't been that entertained by a WWE show since the early days of the attitude era.

I *loved* that they teased each of the _expected_ endings to the Punk/Cena match before it finally ended. We got the attempted McMahon screw job, we got the attempted run in from MITB winner Alberto Del Rio.. And that crowd!! SO intense!

I'm suddenly wishing I had cable so I could watch the follow up on RAW tonight, but I'll have to wait for it to get online.


----------



## Triple-J

Volsung said:


> Now that the 'Money in the Bank' PPV is over, the winner and new WWE champ is CM Punk. This is fantastic, but that isn't as important as Daniel Bryan (Bryan Danielson) winning the first MITB match of the night! Now (hopefully) a heavyweight title run is in his future. He deserves it seeing as he is one the the most technically sound pro wrestlers in the biz today.
> 
> _I apologize in advance for the ensuing little rant_
> 
> It's nice to see WWE slowly (and I mean slowly) giving more spotlight to guys who can actually _work_ in the ring. That's more than I can say for TNA, seeing as how the X Division is starting to fade into obscurity and embarressment. Ever since Hogan came in the picture, the X Division & anyone else who can _work_ have been pushed to the side and made into a joke. For example, what company *lets* a young, great tag team like Generation ME *leave* their company!? That helps prove the fact that TNA only caters to old fossils and WWE left overs anymore. And they used to be so cool...
> 
> _End of rant...for now..._
> 
> I think I'll stop here for now. Otherwise I'd take up a couple terabites of pure wresting jargin.



Did you actually watch the past few shows leading up to Destination-X ppv? 
I agree with you but I think TNA are quite aware of people who feel the same way as you/me and they've made a recent effort to push the X-division again I'm not sure how long it's going to last but Brian Kendrick has the title now so here's hoping it'll give him the type of success which totally eluded him in WWE.
I've never cared much for Gen Me though as I feel they've always came off as a junior version of the Hardy Boyz really and I can't stand the Hardy Boyz as it is I'm gutted they let go of Jay Lethal though.

As for "MITB" I thought the outcome of all the matches was fantastic it's great to see Cena lose for a change and I'm really curious to see how things pan out tonight on RAW and over the next month whereas in the past most WWE ppvs have just seemed pretty inconsequential really.


----------



## Volsung

Triple-J said:


> Did you actually watch the past few shows leading up to Destination-X ppv?
> I agree with you but I think TNA are quite aware of people who feel the same way as you/me and they've made a recent effort to push the X-division again I'm not sure how long it's going to last but Brian Kendrick has the title now so here's hoping it'll give him the type of success which totally eluded him in WWE.
> I've never cared much for Gen Me though as I feel they've always came off as a junior version of the Hardy Boyz really and I can't stand the Hardy Boyz as it is I'm gutted they let go of Jay Lethal though.
> 
> As for "MITB" I thought the outcome of all the matches was fantastic it's great to see Cena lose for a change and I'm really curious to see how things pan out tonight on RAW and over the next month whereas in the past most WWE ppvs have just seemed pretty inconsequential really.



Kendrick has the strap now? Fantastic. Maybe that will give him more incentive to stay in the biz longer since I've read interviews where he's said he thinks about quiting more often than not (yes...I read the 'dirt sheets' often...no I don't have a life ).

I had forgoten about Jay Lethal's departure. Yet another unfortunate TNA blunder. He's back in Ring of Honor though, so he'll be working with some top class wrestlers. 

I do find it interesting that alot of todays feuds and stories always have a 'screw job' twist to them a la the days of The Hitman vs. HBK. That was a series of unfortunate circumstances that inadvertenly made pro wrestling millions upon millions. This current Cena vs. CM Punk has a great twist to it, but anymore 'screw job' story lines are like this.... WWE has a good thing going for them right now though. Hopefully they can keep it up. 

Speaking of 'The Best there is...the Best there was...and the Best there ever will be', there's a(nother) great special on Bret entitled 'Bret Hart: Survival of the Hitman'. It's something wrestling fans should take a gander at. Hart is only one of the best pro wrestlers to ever walk the Earth after all (yeah...I'm a Bret Hart mark). 

Have a look:


----------



## ZXIIIT

I missed the PPV cause I was on a mini tour  so I just watched CM Punk vs. John Cena, that was awesome, actual wrestling with a CLEAN(ish) finish, definitely one of the best matches WWE has had in a good, long while. Great to see Johnny Ace too


----------



## Volsung

Well it seems Punk is officially back with the WWE. It's awesome to see what is usually a behind-closed-doors buisness decision made into quite possibly one of the most interesting plots WWE has done in a long time (...a long time). The fact that Punk's contract expiration was legit makes this all the sweeter. The one thing that could have made this better is if they postponed his return a little while longer. But I'm not complaining. 

Here's the video of his official return. I'm diggin' his new entrance theme. It makes me want to dig out the old album. It's not too new to him since he used it in ROH (Ring of Honor) years back:



(listen to the pop Punk gets when he raises his title )


----------



## soliloquy

Volsung said:


> Well it seems Punk is officially back with the WWE. It's awesome to see what is usually a behind-closed-doors buisness decision made into quite possibly one of the most interesting plots WWE has done in a long time (...a long time). The fact that Punk's contract expiration was legit makes this all the sweeter. The one thing that could have made this better is if they postponed his return a little while longer. But I'm not complaining.
> 
> Here's the video of his official return. I'm diggin' his new entrance theme. It makes me want to dig out the old album. It's not too new to him since he used it in ROH (Ring of Honor) years back:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHeGTXa0_p0
> 
> i liked the first song better. this one doesn't really suit punks attitude or character...
> 
> though i still say that 'bad horsie' by steve vai was MADE for a wrestling song!
> 
> (listen to the pop Punk gets when he raises his title )



if i'm not mistaken, randy used that song first:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

i've been without cable for a while, so i'm not sure what is going on...but i'm guessing cm punk took the title with him, and then wwe released another belt onto cena?

i miss TNA! its been about 3 or 4 months and i'm completely lost! they added TONS of new faces since too...



EDIT: i dont know why i cant synch a youtube vid...but just search "Randy Orton Uses CM Punk`s Theme" on youtube


----------



## Volsung

^
You are correct, sir. Randy used the Killswitch Engage tune for about a week...two at the most before they switched him to the Mercy Drive theme he had for four+- years.


----------



## soliloquy

Volsung said:


> ^
> You are correct, sir. Randy used the Killswitch Engage tune for about a week...two at the most before they switched him to the Mercy Drive theme he had for four+- years.



i always thought that 'omerta' by lamb of god would have been a perfect song for randy. he even sounds like he speaks the clean intro part.


----------



## synrgy

In case anybody missed it:





"John Cena is poopie."


----------



## synrgy

This is amazing.



Seriously, dude is the real deal if he can sell moves performed by a 9 year old.


----------



## shreddanson

As far as the Punk stuff goes, apparently Colt Cabana worked a dark match (as Colt, not Scotty Goldman) at last night's SD! tapings...looks like CM Punk's got more stroke backstage now. I hope if he does get brought back to the 'E, he's brought back as "Colt Cabana". I'm so sick of the random name generator they seem to have for all their new Create-a-Wrestlers.


----------



## synrgy

shreddanson said:


> I'm so sick of the random name generator they seem to have for all their new Create-a-Wrestlers.



That stuff is mostly to due with business. I don't know when it technically started, but I know the company got in a lot of shit over the use of 'Hulk' in Hulk Hogan's ring name back in the day, and certainly since then -- if not before -- they do everything they can to make sure that the company owns exclusive rights to the names/logos/etc of their superstars. There are exceptions here and there (CM Punk, for one) but those are exceptions. Sin Cara is a great recent example. He used to go by Mistico, but WWE couldn't get the rights to that name so they just made up a new one they could have the rights to.


----------



## ZXIIIT

<3 Kenny Omega !


----------



## shreddanson

synrgy said:


> That stuff is mostly to due with business. I don't know when it technically started, but I know the company got in a lot of shit over the use of 'Hulk' in Hulk Hogan's ring name back in the day, and certainly since then -- if not before -- they do everything they can to make sure that the company owns exclusive rights to the names/logos/etc of their superstars. There are exceptions here and there (CM Punk, for one) but those are exceptions. Sin Cara is a great recent example. He used to go by Mistico, but WWE couldn't get the rights to that name so they just made up a new one they could have the rights to.



I'm aware of all that, but fucking christ, can they at least come up with better names than Michael McGillicutty or Buddy Stetcher?


----------



## shreddanson

Konfyouzd said:


> ^ You know... I really don't like CM Punk much. I liked R Truth when he FIRST went crazy. I even dug Miz for a while when he was going after John Cena, but to be honest, I think my favorite person(s) on that show now is the Bella Twins.
> 
> My favorite male superstar is totally Evan Bourne, though. Gotta root for the underdog. Plus he laid the smackdown on that asshat Jack Swagger.



Sorry for the double post, guys, but...

How can you NOT like CM Punk?! Unless you still have the element of imagination and that is fucking cool and respectable - not many wrestling fans have that anymore thanks to the internet - but seriously. This man embodies everything that is good about pro wrestling. Great character, great mic skills, great in-ring prowess. He's something that's organic and not some cookie-cutter generic cash cow created by WWE. I've been a big fan of Punk's since the RoH days and it's so refreshing to see him breathe life into such a stagnant era of WWE TV. He might not be bringing the attitude era back, but he's making me give a shit again, that's for sure


----------



## synrgy

Summerslam predictions?

What I'd like to see:
CM Punk defeats John Cena (clean win!), becoming undisputed WWE Champ.
Christian defeats Randy Orton, retaining the World title and ending the feud.
Sheamus defeats Mark Henry
Beth Phoenix defeats Kelly Kelly becoming new Diva's Champ.

What I expect to see:
No clear winner in Punk vs Cena match, and the saga continues. Plenty of involvement from HHH and also John Laurinitis during this match, if not others as well. Dunno if it would be like a double DQ or some other crap ending, but I don't expect the undisputed champ issue to be resolved yet.

Randy Orton defeats Christian, 'cause the powers that be aren't going to want *both* of their two top cash cows (Cena and Orton) coming out of the PPV without a legitimate title.

Sheamus defeats Mark Henry, 'cause I just can't see them continually pushing Henry like they have been.

Beth Phoenix defeats Kelly Kelly, 'cause I simply think they realize as the fans do that the Diva's division is stagnant and they have to start changing shit up. Plus, Phoenix is apparently dating CM Punk, and he seems to have a lot of pull these days.


Longer term prediction/theory/whatever:
With all the changes they seem to be making, do you guys think there's any hope they'll eventually ditch the World Championship? I think it detracts from the prestige of being champion when you have two 'world champs' (wwe champ and world champ) all the time. I'm hoping that not terribly far down the pike they will do something to unify the 2 different heavyweight titles.


----------



## Volsung

One thing that would be a nice treat is if The Rock were to show up at SummerSlam. Initially, they hinted he would be there, but it seems that it's not going to happen. Though, he will be at more PPVs in the near future. VKM himself said that this will take place. 

As far as the one heavyweight championship title topic, it probly would be nice if they gave it another go. I can understand the two titles though, cause if you have one champ, they'll have to be *everywhere*. Raw house shows, SD house shows, both TV tapings, talkshows, radio interviews and so on. I know those guys & gals are already used to a hectic schedual, but unless they were to give an 'undisputed champ' a solid yet healthy schedual, it would be a killer. It damn near put Kurt Angle out for good. Still, it they were to carry it out the correct way, a single heavyweight strap would be nice to see again. 

On another topic, synrgy mentioned Sin Cara (Mistico)...now there is a guy whose had an interesting run so far. Regarding his new name, 'Sin Cara', that may be up for dispute. During SmackDown's last run in Mexico, they ran into some problems with publishing his name under proper trademarks since it was in use before WWE used it. I'd like to think that they will be able to use his new name for him indefinately, cause it is a cool name. 

Also, he just went through a 30 day suspension for violating the WWE wellness policy. The wrestler they had in his outfit & mask on tonight's SmackDown was not the real Sin Cara. Since they film SmackDown on Tuesday, I think his suspension was still in effect until today. I forget the name of the guy they got to fill in for the original, but he was damn good. Hopefully his performance will earn him a spot on the main roster soon under his own name. Hell, put him in the ring with the real Sin Cara and they'll put on a lucha libre clinic for the ages. 

What do ya think, is that enough dirt-sheet gargin from yours truly, Mr. Buzzkillington? It makes for interesting reads, but it's best to take all of that stuff with a big grain of salt. 

Oh and lastly...CM Punk for Undisputed WWE Champ! (fingers crossed)


----------



## shreddanson

Cena and Punk is a tough one to predict. I don't expect a clean finish at all, either Haitch is going to screw punk, or he'll call it down the middle, Punk wins, then HHH attacks him straight after. I think it's a little obvious they're going for a Punk vs HHH feud. And I also find it hard to believe they'd bring Punk back this quick just to have him drop the title while he's red-hot. 

I see Christian going over Orton, but no clean finish, because nobody can beat Orton clean, right? 

Sheamus vs Mark Henry ends in a no-dq. Henry's having his best run to date and to have him lose to Sheamus cleanly would kill his momentum, I think. I'm looking for them to continue their feud after Summer Slam. 

Beth vs Kelly Kelly = piss break, but I'm pretty sure Beth is leaving with the belt. 

Bryan is going to make Wade tap. Duh.


----------



## synrgy

Volsung said:


> I forget the name of the guy they got to fill in for the original, but he was damn good. Hopefully his performance will earn him a spot on the main roster soon under his own name. Hell, put him in the ring with the real Sin Cara and they'll put on a lucha libre clinic for the ages



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incognito_(wrestler)

Lately, he'd wrestled under the name Hunico, who -- funnily enough -- was a small part of a previous south-of-the-border legal battle over the name Mistico.  As a result, the guy we know know as Sin Cara got to keep the name Mistico (before becoming Sin Cara), whilst this Hunico guy had to use either Mystico or Mistico de Juarez instead.

Pretty interesting coincidence.

(Primer for next paragraph: "He" = Hunico, and "Sin Cara" = the guy who was suspended for 30 days)

Anyway, he's been wrestling in the USA style for a lot longer than Sin Cara has, AND he can speak English, whereas Sin Cara can't. Put those two things together, and combine them with Sin Cara's short yet surprisingly troubled history with the company, and I think there's a solid chance he may end up taking over the Sin Cara character. If not that, I would still expect an eventual feud between the two wrestlers.


----------



## Volsung

synrgy said:


> Lately, he'd wrestled under the name Hunico, who -- funnily enough -- was a small part of a previous south-of-the-border legal battle over the name Mistico.  As a result, the guy we know know as Sin Cara got to keep the name Mistico (before becoming Sin Cara), whilst this Hunico guy had to use either Mystico or Mistico de Juarez instead.
> 
> Pretty interesting coincidence.
> 
> (Primer for next paragraph: "He" = Hunico, and "Sin Cara" = the guy who was suspended for 30 days)
> 
> Anyway, he's been wrestling in the USA style for a lot longer than Sin Cara has, AND he can speak English, whereas Sin Cara can't. Put those two things together, and combine them with Sin Cara's short yet surprisingly troubled history with the company, and I think there's a solid chance he may end up taking over the Sin Cara character. If not that, I would still expect an eventual feud between the two wrestlers.



Ahh...thank you for clearing that up . 

In all fairness to Sin Cara (Mistico), he was brought in pretty quick and had a lot of pressure put on him to deliver big. And to add more to the pressure, apparently HHH is his biggest supporter and helped bring him in fairly high on the card. 

That said, I feel I have to reiterate just how well this Hunico gentleman did in his match with Kidd on SD (even though it was a squash). 

I guess we'll see what happens in the coming weeks, but I have a feeling Mistico will continue as Sin Cara...if he can keep his head stright (poor bastard).


----------



## ZXIIIT

I hope Johnny Ace (Laurinitis) pulls of an Ace Cutter on Cena sometime


----------



## BigPhi84

I just watched the Wrestlemania 27 match between Triple H and the Undertaker. Twas good.


----------



## mattofvengeance

shreddanson said:


> As far as the Punk stuff goes, apparently Colt Cabana worked a dark match (as Colt, not Scotty Goldman) at last night's SD! tapings...looks like CM Punk's got more stroke backstage now. I hope if he does get brought back to the 'E, he's brought back as "Colt Cabana". I'm so sick of the random name generator they seem to have for all their new Create-a-Wrestlers.



He did in fact work a dark match against Wade Barrett, as you can see here 







I saw the NXT ropes and banners, and immediately hit the website to see if it was featured on that episode in any stretch of the imagination. Imagine my disappointment when I sat through that entire turd with no Cabana/Barrett match to be had. Sad panda.


----------



## synrgy

BigPhi84 said:


> I just watched the Wrestlemania 27 match between Triple H and the Undertaker. Twas good.




You thought so? I thought it was really slow and kinda boring. I mean, there were a couple of interesting reversal bits toward the end, but otherwise I thought the whole match was a rinse/repeat of "do a big move then we'll both lay down for 3-5 minutes and rest".. 

Presuming he comes back for one last 'Mania, I really hope Taker will break out the old "rope walk" move that helped make him famous back in the day.


----------



## BigPhi84

synrgy said:


> You thought so? I thought it was really slow and kinda boring. I mean, there were a couple of interesting reversal bits toward the end, but otherwise I thought the whole match was a rinse/repeat of "do a big move then we'll both lay down for 3-5 minutes and rest"..




I said it was good, not great.  Honestly, I've never been huge fans of either wrestler, b/c their matches tend to follow the same patterns. Put them together though, and there was the whole psychological battle between the two. They definitely had chemistry together. Plus, I don't follow wrestling anymore, and it was nice to see that the Undertaker had actually learned a new move  (Hell's Gate). 

I still can't believe that the Undertaker is only 46 years old!!! Dude looks old as dirt... well, maybe not as old as Rick Flair.


----------



## synrgy

Holy shit. ADAM JONES (from Tool) just played the National Anthem @ Summerslam. Didn't see that coming!!

*edit* The most surprising part was that it was.. I hate to say this, but.. Kinda awful..


----------



## synrgy

Blah. I was way off in my hopes/expectations.



Spoiler



Henry, Kelly, and Orton all won, then Punk won by 3 count even though Cena's foot was on the rope (bull shit), then -- of all people -- Kevin Nash comes out of the crowd and clotheslines/jack-knife-powerbombs Punk while he's celebrating, then leaves. Finally, Del Rio comes out to cash in the briefcase, kicks Punk in the head then gets the pin. Summerslam ends with Del Rio as the new undisputed wwe champ.


----------



## shreddanson

Kevin fucking Nash. 

Kinda disappointing ending, but Punk's over enough where he doesn't NEED the belt. There's so many ways they could go with this storyline.


----------



## mattofvengeance

That ending was fucking awesome. I love Punk, Nash is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time (I marked out hardcore when I saw him walking down the aisle), and with Del Rio cashing in, this whole thing just got crazy. So many unanswered questions. Felt like a Vince Russo ending haha


----------



## synrgy

He's one of my all time favorites too ("4 Life!!" ) but let's be honest: Dude was way past his prime a _decade_ ago, let alone _now_.


----------



## synrgy




----------



## Volsung

^That's awsome, man. Where'd ya find it? 

Well with SS (which racked in over 1 million dollars last night) and tonight's RAW, they finally have a good story line that puts asses in seats and eyes on TVs. Kevin Nash's role (although strange at first) is a great addition. We'll have to see how well the 'old man' can work in the ring though. Besides the last Royal Rumble, he hasn't had steady matches since TNA and that was almost a year ago (he may have worked some indy dates after TNA...I can't remember). 

With Nash back, Laurinitis and Steph back in the picture, perhaps we have a new age 'Corporation' faction coming up. 

I still don't know what to think of Del Rio's new title run. Seems a little too soon to me. Time will tell.


----------



## synrgy

I'm wondering if Del Rio with the title is just their way of trying to scrape in some extra dough on their upcoming shows in Mexico..

I'll admit it: I'm a CM Punk mark, so maybe that has something to do with my initial reaction to the ending of SS. That said, after last night's RAW I'd say it's still too early to tell where this is all going. There seems to be a disconnect between HHH and Stephanie McMahon's plans, which is curious. It seems Laurinitis has his own agenda, which adds another twist. A new corporation type stable would be the obvious way to take this, but the writers are showing us now that they're actually capable of being unpredictable, so who knows where this'll go.

This may be crazy, but as well as they worked together in their last 2 matches, I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of possibility to see Punk and Cena tag together at some point, likely against some version of the new establishment like HHH/Nash or whoever. What I do know is that Punk brought out some of the best in-ring work I've ever seen from Cena. While I didn't like the ending of their SS match, the preceding 30 some-odd minutes were awesome, and of course the entirety of their match at MITB was nothing short of classic.

Anyway, I gotta hand it to them: They're keeping me guessing. I guess in the end, that's what it's really all about.


----------



## ZXIIIT

I really want to see where they go with CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Sin Cara(s) and the undisputed WWE title.

It was pretty cool seeing my cousin on Raw last night, front row, dressed up as Alberto Del Rio


----------



## Bigsby

I can't really say im to thrilled to see nash nash though i never was a big fan of his i would have like to have seen a younger guy like wade barrett (even though he is on smackdown) or even somebody like colt cabana if they were going for a curveball to screw punk out of the title i could have seen that happening at summerslam and also poor cody rhodes nobody seems to care that he won the Intercontinental championship


----------



## Konfyouzd

Am I the only person happy that Alberto del Rio is champ? I kinda wanted to see this. I am also kind of starting to like CM Punk despite his troll-like ways... 

Real talk... Evan Bourne needs to come up. They're giving Mark Henry and even R-Truth a chance now. And THANK GOD R-Truth just walks out to the song instead of singing and dancing the whole fuckin' thing now.

Also... I do not approve of this Kevin Nash nonsense. Razor Ramon would have been SOOOO much better. 

Nash's promo skills are lacking a bit and that became evident when he went up against CM Punk... Talking...


----------



## Bigsby

Del Rioooooooooo is one of my favorite wrestlers but i have a gut feeling he is not going to have the title for long thanks to Supercena or they or going to make him a weak champion kind of like jack swagger who also won the title in like his first year in the wwe i just kind of feel like they built del rio up too fast mean he's only been there what like a year? i just hope he doesn't turn into the all american american i mean come on its his destiny to be champion


----------



## Triple-J

Konfyouzd said:


> Am I the only person happy that Alberto del Rio is champ? I kinda wanted to see this. I am also kind of starting to like CM Punk despite his troll-like ways...
> 
> Real talk... Evan Bourne needs to come up. They're giving Mark Henry and even R-Truth a chance now. And THANK GOD R-Truth just walks out to the song instead of singing and dancing the whole fuckin' thing now.
> 
> Also... I do not approve of this Kevin Nash nonsense. Razor Ramon would have been SOOOO much better.
> 
> Nash's promo skills are lacking a bit and that became evident when he went up against CM Punk... Talking...



I dig Del Rio being champ too and I don't see why so many people seem to hate on him as Del Rio (and to a lesser degree Dolph Ziggler) is a great throwback to the cheesy heels of the 80's like Rick Rude and Mr Perfect which I love.

And yes Nash isn't too convincing on the mic either but it doesn't bother me too much cause there's a ton of wrestlers that have "made it" that are awful talkers (I cringe everytime Matt or Jeff Hardy pick up a mic!) infact there's been so many over the years you could probably fill up an entire thread dedicated to it.


----------



## Bigsby

hmm looks like bill goldberg is coming out of retirement Bill Goldberg's Return Revealed?, Details Inside - WrestlingInc.com i wonder if we will see him back in wwe or tna


----------



## Volsung

Goldberg is coming back, but it ain't with WWE or TNA. He said WWE "can kiss my ass." His return may be against Batista at a super show in the African Congo. 

Another thing that I read about is TNA firing Matt Hardy. To be honest, I don't know what they were thinking when they hired him on in the first place. The poor guy can barely move his legs/back in the ring, making his matches very hard to watch. Plus, the various diatribes & rants he posts on youtube are just embarrising. It's disapointing to see where both Hardy's carrers have gone. They were fuckin' awesome back in the day (I thought so anyway), now it's just sad. I know they started as a couple of 16-18 year old piss-ants in a buisness that is very unforgiving, but over the years they've created a legacy and have made a ton of money in the process. I guess they wanted to start early in the process of flushing one's carrer down the toilet. 

Here's something from way back in 1995. A young Jeff Hardy vs. the late Great Owen Hart.


I must say that Del Rio's match with D. Bryan this past SD! was great. It made Del Rio look like a fighting, solid heel champion and it made Bryan look like a true competitor of champion calibur. That match made me appretiate the fact that Del Rio is champ. It's a fresh step. Plus, how does one not react to his character & facial expressions. 

On the topic of Danielson, I'm kind of glad that Bryan said he wouldn't cash in his MITB until WrestleMania. That gives them plenty of time for creative and Bryan to make him into a top player. It seems to me that he's being molded into the next big technical master a la Bret Hart, Chris Beniot, Chris Jericho, etc. A nice change from Orton & Cena (whom I like anyway).


----------



## Bigsby

yeah i heard he is going to be wrestling at an event called rumble in the jungle

as for matt and jeff hardy i used to be like their biggest fan 10 years ago and now its just embarrasing to say i liked them


----------



## flexkill

My brother and I where huge wrestling fans in the early eighties....I was around 7-8 those are great memories. The product they offer today I just can't watch it. But man, some of my greatest memories are of me and my brother watching wrestling(He is six years older than me) and then beating the hell out of each other as we tried to re-enact our favorite wrestlers moves lol....good times!!!


----------



## BigPhi84

Volsung said:


>





Thanks for sharing that. Owen Hart is my favorite wrestler of all time. May he rest in peace.


----------



## Volsung

I'm really diggin' Punk's insults towards HHH. I'm sure Hunter's heard em' all, but it's pretty funny coming out of Punk's mouth. 



Hopefully a long running program between Punk & HHH is in the works. Nash vs. Punk would have been interesting to see, but seeing as how Nash's legs aren't in the best shape these days (his upper body is in great shape though...), that match would have possibly made Nash look too much like the dreaded 'old man' in the ring. I know he's got a few more good matches in him though, maybe they've got something else in mind for him. 

Speaking of HHH, how's this for a throw-back. A young HHH in WCW under the name of 'Jean Paul Levesque'. Dig that accent .


----------



## mattofvengeance




----------



## Triple-J

Figured I'd give this thread a bump to talk about a new guy in TNA that I just cannot get enough of right now....Austin Aries.

I'd never heard of him when he arrived in TNA last June but he's got to be the best heel I've seen in either TNA or WWE during the past few years, just imagine a cross between Stone Cold and Ric Flair in his 70's/80's prime and you're close. 
Everything about the guy is top notch and even if you don't like TNA I'd recomend watching it just to see him cause his promos/interviews alone are far more entertaining than most other TNA/WWE wrestlers matches.


----------



## Volsung

_Must..keep...thread...going..._

After watching TNA (off and on) for the past month in a half, it's nice to see them doing a few things 'right' again. Robert Roode as champion?...why the hell not. He's been with them for about as long as AJ, Sabin, & Abyss just to name a few. Plus he's worked his ass off, so I think he's justified. To be honest, his world title run still seems a little awkward, but that may just be the effect of seeing a fresh face with the title. I believe his title run was to start sooner than it did, but Hogan said he wasn't ready yet, which I can understand...a little. 

On another subject, it's nice to see Jeff Hardy back and looking healthy. That's a whole hell of a lot more than can be said for Matt...which I'm not even going to touch. 

There are still a lot of things about TNA that I can't stand to watch but, in all fairness, there are still _plenty_ of things in WWE that are just as intolerable. I guess I still think of TNA as a great alternative to WWE, not the half resurrected corpse of WCW.

TNA still have some of the greatest wrestlers on TV today though. They just need to let them shine through.


----------



## HOKENSTYFE

Can't really stand what's become of Professional Wrestling, the past 7-8 years!?! Been into the Indy scene pretty hard since 2001. Now with 'Ring Of Honor', there's Evolve & (My favorite/been to (2) shows this year) Dragon Gate, I am finally getting that feeling back, a little, that I had as a kid! 
Last Dragon Gate show I was at, in Manhattan, November, had Sabu! If I knew how to upload the picture...

I just can't get emotionally invested with guys that have no character or no wrestling ability, and I mean CM Punk and Cena,etc. Daniel Bryan, Brian Danielson-American Dragon has more wrestling talent & character then that whole friggin' locker room and they bury the kid! Though, I always liked Low-Ki, to those who don't know, Kaval. That's a match, Low-Ki & American Dragon, just to turn the screw, add Red to that! In-Fuckin'-sane!
Fuck Vince & Throw-away WWE always second place TNA( I love you Tara-Lisa Marie Varon)!


----------



## Volsung

In what has to be one of the strangest (in a good way of course) comebacks I've seen in a while, Chris Jericho returns!

Chris Jericho Returns - WWE Raw 1/2/12 - YouTube

If they're doing what I think they're doing...it's genius.


----------



## HOKENSTYFE

Jericho...?what, Fozzy couldn't employ a sevenstring into their schtick? I thought he was done with wrestling? I haven't liked this guy since he came over 10years ago. 'Lionheart', was a cool dude. This guy needs a real job. 'Celebrity Has-Been', a new show on VH1. 'Ultimo Dragon', was always a better crusier weight! So was Dean Malenko! Worst well-out since, Scott Ian!

Probably wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't here to amp-up, WrestleMania. Just like the 'Rock'! In a couple of months...gone! 'Golden Shower, Golden Rod, some award show he has no business hosting! 

Where's Muta? Where's Kaval? Where are the real talents, that live & die for this entertainment. Not just for the attention to make movies. Ala, Batista, Edge,...fame whores, no?


----------



## soliloquy

oh japan, you so weird!


----------



## BigPhi84

soliloquy said:


> oh japan, you so weird!




LOL, what the hell?


----------



## soliloquy

so...brock lesnar came back last night.
he seemed so bored and lack of any enthusiasm.


----------



## Rick

He also looked a lot smaller than before, that illness he had/has really hit hard.


----------



## Triple-J

Personally I don't think he looked bored he seemed more like a fish out of water to me and I don't blame him really as he's probably got a bit of ring rust to work off plus I imagine it's quite a leap going from performing MMA in smaller venues to F5'ing John Cena in some enormodome on live tv.


----------



## snowblind56

Triple-J said:


> Personally I don't think he looked bored he seemed more like a fish out of water to me and I don't blame him really as he's probably got a bit of ring rust to work off plus I imagine it's quite a leap going from performing MMA in smaller venues to F5'ing John Cena in some enormodome on live tv.



Not to mention that I doubt he ever had such a hot live crowd like that in UFC. That crowd was insane. I haven't seen a pop like that in ages.




Rick said:


> He also looked a lot smaller than before, that illness he had/has really hit hard.



He's quite a bit smaller than from his previous WWE run, but looks the same size as he was in UFC. Although I will say that he looked kind of soft, or not completely jacked up like he was before.


----------



## Randy

Brock definitely looks out of shape.


----------



## ZXIIIT

YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Bigsby

the way he picks up spike dudley by his neck and throws him onto his shoulder is terrifying 



brock lesnar still scares the shit outta me


----------



## soliloquy

Rick said:


> He also looked a lot smaller than before, that illness he had/has really hit hard.



well, when he was in wwe, he weighed in at about 295-305
he went to UFC and cut his weight down to 260ish
and thats what he returns to wwe with. he cut down a lot of water weight, but he has a hard time keeping his weight steady in one place.


i still say he looked bored and annoyed considering all the shit he said about wwe for so many years, only to have to come back to it. his body gave out on him with UFC as the workouts, supplements and pressure MMA puts on your body is insane. wwe on the other hand, the only pressure they put on your body is constant traveling (so jet-lag) which means your nutrition would be all over the place. also, the other pressure usually applies to heavy weight guys, where they are forced to get bigger, thus relying on pain killers, and early deaths for many of them. 

at the same time, going from the attendance at all the UFC events that brock took part in, most of them have been a few hundred-a few thousand people more than raw and smackdown attendance. so seeing the crowd at raw prolly wasn't over whelming for him.


----------



## ZXIIIT

soliloquy said:


> ...the only pressure they put on your body is constant traveling (so jet-lag)...



Um, no .

Have you ever been inside a wrestling ring and actually trained in one? being slammed on that is not "soft" at all, there is cushioning, but it still kicks your ass, not to mention physical contact (there is...) and athleticism involved in being a pro-wrestler.

The constant traveling only makes it harder for an injury to heal, so some turn to pain killers and then it's all down hill.

I also would not say Lesnar looked "annoyed and/or bored" why the fuck would he be that way considering the reaction he got and signed a contract to come back?


----------



## synrgy

Holy thread revival, Batman! Sweet! I thought I was the only one, for a hot minute there.. 

I will actually be attending WWE Raw Live this evening. I've been to a few live shows before, but only house shows; never a TV taping. I'm super stoked for my first live show that actually counts for something storyline-wise! I'm expecting Lesnar will be there, and there's supposed to be some kinda tag match of Punk/Somebody vs Jericho/Somebody.

I don't think our seats will be such that anyone could see us on TV, but I'll probably bring along a "YES!" sign, just in case. 

I'll post back to let everyone know how it was live, versus what was broadcast.


----------



## Rick

synrgy said:


> I don't think our seats will be such that anyone could see us on TV, but I'll probably bring along a "YES!" sign, just in case.
> 
> I'll post back to let everyone know how it was live, versus what was broadcast.



Your sign should say, "I <3 Djent!" and we'll really be able to spot you.


----------



## synrgy

Rick said:


> Your sign should say, "I <3 Djent!" and we'll really be able to spot you.



I think we can make it a little more relevant, like maybe "Jericho <3's Djent" or some such.


----------



## Bigsby

Lesnar decked cena pretty good with that first punch, BLOOOOOD


----------



## synrgy

Show was fun. As late as I got home, I only got to check out the first 20-30 minutes of the TV broadcast (I had it DVR'ed) but clearly the area I was sitting in was such that none of you would be able to see me. I mean, I can point to what's basically a white blob that I'm fairly certain is my CM Punk t-shirt, but that's about as good as it gets. 

In hindsight, I dunno why I was so excited. I somehow managed to let myself forget that Monday Night Raw generally consists of about 10% wrestling, and 90% "other". The in-ring action was definitely lacking last night. The longest match I can recall was the tag match with Santino/Brodus Clay versus Ziggler/Swagger. I haven't watched the match yet, but if you hear a "Santino" chant, I'm pretty sure I started it.

The "Yes!" chants were in full effect. I think the crowd was disappointed that the only glimpse we caught of Daniel Bryan was during the melee between Lesnar and Cena.

After Raw went off the air, Cena stayed in the ring. The crowd started chanting for him, then Ziggler came out in street clothes issuing a challenge. Cena offered Ziggler a free first hit, but Ziggler stalled and kept talking smack. Eventually, Cena just picked him up and gave him one of the better Attitude Adjustments I've seen. (Equal parts Cena really lifting Ziggler up there, and Ziggler taking the bump like a champ)

Favorite moments = chants of "Allllllberrrrt! Allllllberrrrt!" during Lord Tensai's match, and Jericho calling Punk "CM Drunk". 

Also, holy crap do they do a great job making the whole arena look MUCH larger on television than it is in reality..


----------



## Rick

I heard the "Albert" chants, cracked me up.


----------



## Bigsby

i've been watching wrestling pretty much my whole life and still never been to a live show i almost went to wrestlemania X-7, wrestlemania XXV and Bad blood and everytime something came up, i hope ill be able to go one day


----------



## ZXIIIT

Glad to know you had a good time! it's always fun to go.



synrgy said:


> 10% wrestling, and 90% "other".



That is my biggest gripe about WWE :/

Good thing I also watch Puroresu and Lucha Libre, where it's 98% wrestling and 2% other.


----------



## morrowcosom

IMO as far as the other, it can be very entertaining, but no one does it as well as past wrestlers did. 

There is not a wrestler today that has the charisma and presence of the Rock or Stone Cold's bootlaces. These guys made people watch wrestling that did not even give a shit about it. 

When I saw the Rock's "comeback" stint, it made me remember just how lame showmen all the current wrestler's are. It actually gave me goosebumps when he got in the ring and talked his shit. 

As far as another entertainment spectacle (not so much a showstopper as those above), I really miss Goldust and his gay/weird angle.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ i have to say, the rock coming back was a bit disappointment. i admit i never liked the rock as he got annoying. but i respected him for his energy. however, when he came back, all his stuff just sounded too dated and weak comparing to cena.

cena, another guy i hate, but one has to admit that the war of the words, cena was winning hands down.

though, i also admit that attitude era was far better than any other era wwe/wwf/wcw ever went through. 








on a different note, VOTE FOR BRET HART TO BE INDUCTED INTO THE CANADIAN HALL OF FAME! currently there are no wrestlers in the hall of fame, and canada has a lot of top wrestlers that should be in the hall of fame, but aren't (such as trish stratus, and numerous others). but let bret hart be the ice breaker for this. and its not just his fame, but his charity work he does

to vote, go here. you can vote once a day up until the 30th of april
WWE Helping Bret Hart For WOF, Weekend SD! Events (Correspondents Wanted), Edge - WrestlingInc.com


----------



## soliloquy

also...how long do you guys think brock will last in wwe? his contract is 1 year, and to expire at wrestle mania. however, he has a LOT of pride issues. i'm not sure if that punch on cena that got him bloodied was scripted or not. but if it wasn't, i highly doubt WWE would continue with brock for too long. i'm assuming they'd get rid of him in a few months


----------



## synrgy

So I'm watching Raw tonight, and for the 2nd or 3rd time since he's been back, I've seen Chris Jericho do the Lion Tamer:







Notice it's the legitimate Lion Tamer, where he jams his knee into the back of his opponent's head.

The announce team clearly and without hesitation called this move "The Walls of Jericho".

Here's the problem, and I think I've brought this up once before.. There's this other move he does, which is basically a half-assed Boston Crab:






The announce team also calls that move "The Walls of Jericho", every time, without fail.

Now that we've cleared up what I'm talking about, please, someone tell me: How are two blatantly different moves _the same move_?


----------



## Rick

The fact that you've analyzed this cracks me up.


----------



## Triple-J

synrgy said:


> So I'm watching Raw tonight, and for the 2nd or 3rd time since he's been back, I've seen Chris Jericho do the Lion Tamer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice it's the legitimate Lion Tamer, where he jams his knee into the back of his opponent's head.
> 
> The announce team clearly and without hesitation called this move "The Walls of Jericho".
> 
> Here's the problem, and I think I've brought this up once before.. There's this other move he does, which is basically a half-assed Boston Crab:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The announce team also calls that move "The Walls of Jericho", every time, without fail.
> 
> Now that we've cleared up what I'm talking about, please, someone tell me: How are two blatantly different moves _the same move_?



We've also got Albert/A-Train/Whatever renaming himself Lord Tensai dressing up like Shredder and pretending he's half Japanese which is just as ridiculous but I think your post highlights the fact that commentators today don't know the names of the moves being performed in the ring and they don't really care either because they think that the audience is so dumb they won't notice.


----------



## synrgy

Rick said:


> The fact that you've analyzed this cracks me up.





It's just one of those things.


----------



## synrgy

Triple-J said:


> the fact that commentators today don't know the names of the moves being performed in the ring



One of many reasons I miss JR. Not to mention Mike Tenay from WCW, who at least knew the names of pretty much every move ever performed, even if he had no charisma whatsoever.


----------



## Randy




----------



## Rick

^That's awesome.


----------



## Triple-J

synrgy said:


> One of many reasons I miss JR. Not to mention Mike Tenay from WCW, who at least knew the names of pretty much every move ever performed, even if he had no charisma whatsoever.



I do miss JR but I always found the fact that he'd get matched with Jerry Lawler annoying cause Lawler just played the stereotypical "asshole colour commentator" role that we've seen a million times before in the WWF/E.

Personally I think Joey Styles and Joel Gertner during the original ECW were a good commentary team as Joey knew his stuff but always managed to drop in some very well timed humour while Gertner was a colour commentator who actually managed to be funny and didn't come off as irritating.


----------



## soliloquy

synrgy said:


> So I'm watching Raw tonight, and for the 2nd or 3rd time since he's been back, I've seen Chris Jericho do the Lion Tamer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice it's the legitimate Lion Tamer, where he jams his knee into the back of his opponent's head.
> 
> The announce team clearly and without hesitation called this move "The Walls of Jericho".
> 
> Here's the problem, and I think I've brought this up once before.. There's this other move he does, which is basically a half-assed Boston Crab:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The announce team also calls that move "The Walls of Jericho", every time, without fail.
> 
> Now that we've cleared up what I'm talking about, please, someone tell me: How are two blatantly different moves _the same move_?





actually, they are right, and jericho isn't. 
when he was in the WCW, jericho often used that move in the wcw called the lion tamer. 
he comes to wwf/wwe, and was still using that move for the first few years, but now calling it the 'walls of jericho'. 
later on, jericho altered that move and placed the entire weight on the victims neck/face while placing the knee on their back (so instead of hurting their legs and back, now they turn their neck/spine.)

and recently, y2j altered it again and made it into a boston crab while still calling it walls of jericho...

its the same thing as the wrestler Raven calling his special 'ravens effect' when its actually just a DDT.


----------



## Ninetyfour

soliloquy said:


> its the same thing as the wrestler Raven calling his special 'ravens effect' when its actually just a DDT.



Same with the Yes Lock, which is just a LeBell Lock, which is just a Crossface


----------



## soliloquy

Ninetyfour said:


> Same with the Yes Lock, which is just a LeBell Lock, which is just a Crossface



yes and no. the cross face that chris benoit (oh i miss that guy!) used was MUCH different than the one that is seen as the 'yes/lebell lock'. main difference is that the cross face had the extended arm straight, so most of the pressure was put on your shoulder and neck/face/spine. but the lebell/yes lock takes that a few steps further by contorting the arm so now your shoulder, tricep, bicep, arm, neck/face/spine are all being effected all at once.


----------



## mattofvengeance

And that jabroni's name...



that is correct...it does not MATTER what his name is.


----------



## soliloquy

i thought this was hilarious. cm punk keeps getting better day by day


----------



## mattofvengeance

Honestly, CM Punk has become somewhat of a stale, whiny bitch. I still like the guy a whole lot. He's one of the best in ring performers in the Double Double E right now, and without a doubt one of the best (if not THE best on the mic), but his Straight Edge Society days, feud with Jeff Hardy, and the Summer of Punk angle last year, he was drastically better than he is now. Hell, even his feud with Randy Orton going into Wrestlemania last year was better. IMO he's a far superior heel than he is a face. Again, I can't stress enough how much I like the guy. I would absolutely LOVE if he would feud with Dolph, but they're much too busy jobbing him out to the Fatassauras.


----------



## synrgy

Ziggler's time will come. Some of you may remember a time when guys like Michaels and HHH jobbed to _everybody_. 

I think they're struggling to keep anything going, at all. I don't know why, either. They're still giving all their prime time to Cena, and using title feuds as filler/fluff. That seems back-asswards, to me..

Also:


----------



## Rick

^That's messed up.


----------



## mattofvengeance

synrgy said:


> Ziggler's time will come. Some of you may remember a time when guys like Michaels and HHH jobbed to _everybody_.
> 
> I think they're struggling to keep anything going, at all. I don't know why, either. They're still giving all their prime time to Cena, and using title feuds as filler/fluff. That seems back-asswards, to me..



This. They've done a mindnumbingly good job ignoring the title picture while keeping Cena in the limelight. I don't remember Shawn Michaels doing this level of jobbing, at least not the cocky, pre "I lost my smile" Heartbreak Kid. Back then, he really only dropped the belts to his friends, Nash, HHH, etc. Certainly when he came back and wasn't such a cocky little asshole, he excelled at putting people over. I guess the real problem lies with the WWE's lack of building stars for the future and people not really separating themselves from the herd. I just really miss the days of kayfabe and the mystique surrounding professional wrestling, back when it was more of a spectacle.


----------



## synrgy

The internet/dirt-sheets kind of screwed kayfabe up. These days, my understanding is that Vinnie-Mac (who's arguably too old now to be as intimately involved as he is) infamously changes plans for almost every single match/angle at the last possible second, simply because he's obsessed with proving dirt-sheets wrong. It's kind of sad that he seems so willing to sacrifice a great angle, just to stick it to the net.


----------



## mattofvengeance

Dirt sheets are definitely a huge part of the problem. Unfortunately, Vince has lost sight of what really made the WWE groundbreaking and popular. My hopes is that Trips can help restore some of that, and that is big nose isn't *too* far up Vinnie Mac's ass.


----------



## soliloquy

well, dolph arguably is the most entertaining guy out there in wwe. he can have a match with a broom stick, and i'd love to watch it. 

however, wwe really lacks focus. they randomly push people, only to kill them off. remember what they did with kofi? the push came out of no where, they pushed him for the heavy weights, and then right when he was inches away, they yanked him off and had him job to people. 

same thing goes for swagger (though i never understood that other than him being an exact copy -safe for the blonde hair- of kurt angle...). 

they lack any kind of commitment towards any specific push. 

sure, they have invited tons of new guys as of late so they have no talent, great...but what about the guys who have been in the company for 4+ years and have a lot of potential, but now would be buried? 

its much the same as randy orton. an amazing in ring competitor, his mic skill i'm not sure about as sometimes he nails it, other times i'm very apathetic towards him...but there were years they were pushing him, and now they have pushed him to the sidelines where other sidelined wrestlers are too. 

same thing goes for kane. he has been in the picture for about 2 decades, and up until recently, after ten years, they pushed him for the belt, only to yank it away again...



i still say tna is better as wrestling happens on tna. longevity of stories happen on tna. its just a shame that tna has horrible advertisement behind them.

also, matt morgan coming back to wwe? i'm not sure how i feel about that...

and prince albert is horrible! very slow, very boring, very wtf?!


----------



## mattofvengeance

I don't know how I didn't see this before. I've had a few, so fair warning 



soliloquy said:


> well, dolph arguably is the most entertaining guy out there in wwe. he can have a match with a broom stick, and i'd love to watch it.



Dolph Ziggler is by far one of my favorites in the company. He's one of the best in the ring, and he's proven that he's more than capable on the mic. His stuff on the Z! True Long Island Story is pure fucking gold. He doesn't need Swagger, and he doesn't need Vicky as a mouthpiece. I'm thinking (and hoping) they're going to pair him with the Nature Boy, give him the MITB briefcase and let him go. 




soliloquy said:


> however, wwe really lacks focus. they randomly push people, only to kill them off. remember what they did with kofi? the push came out of no where, they pushed him for the heavy weights, and then right when he was inches away, they yanked him off and had him job to people.



Yeah, I completely agree. They do that with a ton of people, the aforementioned Zack Ryder being one of them. It seems to me that in the past they had no problem building interesting story lines, while simultaneously keeping their midcard wrestlers involved. Nowadays, it seems so scatterbrained, like they can't devote anything more than a few weeks to something. The title even seems devalued to me because no matter who has it, Cena is still the focus. I truly believe it's Vince's hubris that is to blame for the lack of proper development of talent and storylines, and it's truly unfortunate that there isn't really any competition out there to push him. It's like EA Sports and the Madden monopoly.



soliloquy said:


> same thing goes for swagger (though i never understood that other than him being an exact copy -safe for the blonde hair- of kurt angle...).



yeah, I've always found Swagger incredibly fucking boring. He has some good qualities- he's good in the ring, not bad on the mic in spite of his speech issues, but he's just so fucking bland. So glad they cut him from the Zig Zag Man. 



soliloquy said:


> its much the same as randy orton. an amazing in ring competitor, his mic skill i'm not sure about as sometimes he nails it, other times i'm very apathetic towards him...but there were years they were pushing him, and now they have pushed him to the sidelines where other sidelined wrestlers are too.



I think Orton's good, but my issues with him are his matches are so formulaic. He does fine work, but it's always the same. It takes some good workers, like Christian for example, to get some new things out of him. Pretty boring on the mic, but by no means is he bad. He also has a habit of getting suspended, as he is right now, so the WWE is hesitant to put too much behind him, and I understand that. I personally enjoyed Orton's work as a heel better anyway. 



soliloquy said:


> same thing goes for kane. he has been in the picture for about 2 decades, and up until recently, after ten years, they pushed him for the belt, only to yank it away again...



I'll never understand what they've done with Kane. Glen Jacobs is one of my favorite wrestlers ever, almost entirely attributed to his run as Kane from 97 to around 02 or so. The way they debuted him was absolutely awesome. His feud with Undertaker was incredible. After that, it's like they didn't know what to do with him. He had the potential to be a truly dominant force for a long time, but he always drifted from the mid to upper midcard. They never should have taken that mask off.



soliloquy said:


> i still say tna is better as wrestling happens on tna. longevity of stories happen on tna. its just a shame that tna has horrible advertisement behind them.



You get no argument from me here. I recently attended TNA's Slammiversary, and it was absolutely incredible. The place was packed, and the crowd was red hot. It really is a shame they get almost no credit, and the worst part is the majority of people that talk shit on TNA have never even watched it. 



soliloquy said:


> also, matt morgan coming back to wwe? i'm not sure how i feel about that...



I think Matt Morgan has a whole lot of talent and has a very good look. That said, I have a terrible feeling WWE will bury him like they have every wrestler that made their name in TNA. See also, Vince and his hubris. 



soliloquy said:


> and prince albert is horrible! very slow, very boring, very wtf?!



Fuck that Tensai gimmick. I wasn't much of a fan of Albert before, and this is a million times worse. It's obvious to me that the crowd isn't responding, so they really should drop this crap. I always cringe on Raw when somebody talks about a "mystery opponent" cause it's always him. I'm hoping his little outburst against his little follower and subsequent time away from TV is leading to the demise of that character.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ somehow i highly doubt tensai is done from wwe. they usually higher people on a on eyear contract...


----------



## Ninetyfour

mattofvengeance said:


> Dolph Ziggler is by far one of my favorites in the company. He's one of the best in the ring, and he's proven that he's more than capable on the mic. His stuff on the Z! True Long Island Story is pure fucking gold. He doesn't need Swagger, and he doesn't need Vicky as a mouthpiece. I'm thinking (and hoping) they're going to pair him with the Nature Boy, give him the MITB briefcase and let him go.



Stuff like this is what makes me love Ziggler, he defies physics to please the crowd.


----------



## soliloquy

Ninetyfour said:


> Stuff like this is what makes me love Ziggler, he defies physics to please the crowd.



that reminds me of the way the rock took any pedigrees or stunners. others just fell straight on their face or back. the rock made the after effects more interesting:







and tonight, y2j returns from being suspended for kicking and crumpling the brazillian flag


----------



## mattofvengeance

soliloquy said:


> /\ somehow i highly doubt tensai is done from wwe. they usually higher people on a on eyear contract...



No no, I don't mean him, just the gimmick. I'd be fine with him returning to the Albert character.


----------



## ZXIIIT

Ugh at the OVER selling, reminds me of the WWE All Stars video game...


----------



## soliloquy

watch the entire match:

watch the entire match. :
part 1:


part 2:



thats why i love tna so much. i dont think wwe/wwf ever had a match like these. wcw on the otherhand did have em quiet often


----------



## soliloquy

and am i the only one that thinks that 3 hours of raw is bs? 
its WAY too long and now its full of gimmicks (moreso) and lack any substance. 
and now its more full with silly commercials as well


----------



## synrgy

Depends. We'll see if they find their legs in the next few weeks/months, but I'd say week #2 is definitely too early to make the call. Mind you, I don't _expect_ it to improve; I just _hope_ it does. 

+1 for the Ziggler love. I'm with the rest of the marks who think he's the next-big-thing.

In regards to pushing/de-pushing, some of it is political, and some of it is policy. Orton just came back from a 6 month mandatory suspension, due to the company's 'wellness policy', which unofficially translates to 'he failed a drug test'. The *exact* same thing happened to Rey Mysterio. JUST as he was supposed to come back from an injury, he failed a test and got suspended. Funnily enough, the *exact* same explanation is behind why we haven't seen Evan Bourne in months. He got suspended, came back, got suspended again, then got injured just as he was supposed to come back from the 2nd suspension. 

Then there's the flip-side of that coin: Guys like Sheamus (who apparently has such a limited move set that we don't even need both hands to count the spots we can expect from his matches), or Sin Cara (who botches every other move he attempts) get mega-pushes because they're buddied up with HHH behind the scenes. I have to say that I was excited about HHH taking the reigns when I first heard about it, but having seen the few things that he's directly responsible for thus far, the future doesn't look very bright.

Frankly, I don't understand Orton's popularity. He showed some promise when he was younger, and I get that he's a 2nd (or 3rd?) generation guy, but I find his matches boring, and his promos worse.

I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed Raw's 1,000th episode last week. Lots of great stuff, there. Speaking of which, every time I see Sid, I think of this:


----------



## Riffer

Has anybody been watching lately? The Ryback/Punk feud, Cena and AJ Lee afair, Kane and Bryan tag team, Big Show and Sheamus feud? I'm loving CM Punk. Everytime he comes out to do some promo on the mic I'm excited to see how pissed off he can get the crowd.


----------



## mr_rainmaker

here is my hero.


----------



## synrgy

I've become a massive mark for Punk, actually. The promo he cut last year, and the resulting 'leaving with the title' storyline he did is what effectively got me back into watching after a decade of having not even thought about it.

I'm not a fan of Skip Sheffield (Ryback), though. I didn't like Goldberg the first time, so I guess I'm just not the right target audience for Goldberg Part Two. 

Not sure how I feel about this Team Punk vs Team Foley @ Survivor Series thing, but I guess WWE kinda has their backs up against the wall in terms of roster depth. Punk is just about the only (healthy) guy they have right now who's able to generate such a high level of heat. Ryback is too new to make 'the face', but with Cena's injury, there's seemingly no place for them to go other than back to the Legends contracts. At least - from what I understand - Foley won't be wrestling. He's just there to be there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but he looks like he can barely walk any more, and I don't want to see him taking crazy bumps.

Anyway, at least this means that Punk's streak (presumably) gets to continue through Survivor Series. He's already the 5th longest reigning champ of the last 25 years. He'll overtake Kevin Nash for #4 prior to Survivor Series, and - if I'm not mistaken - he'll overtake Hulk Hogan's #3 spot by the end of Survivor Series. The only two left after that are Macho Man's 371-day reign, and John Cena's 380-day reign.


----------



## Riffer

^ I don't mind Ryback but he does seem very "Goldberg"esque. The whole Survivor Series match is lackluster to me. I don't care for the teams they picked on either side. It's just smaller storyline feuds lumped into one big team feud now. The CM Punk buzz is what got me watching it again after being away for close to 10 years. The John Cena affair story line is interesting to me since John Cena is suppose to be the cookie cutter nice guy. I'm hoping that maybe they are going in a more adult direction and maybe get back to a little bit of the "Attitude Era" type or story line writing. I'd love for CM Punk to move up in the longest reigning champ but I was Macho Man for Halloween since he was one of my all time favorites and would like to see him kee that number 2 spot. I know CM Punk loves Randy Savage too so I'm sure it would be Punks dream to be up there with him.


----------



## soliloquy

i'm personally hating the 3 hours of raw. i hated it from day one, and even after 3 or 4 months later, it still sucks. why? they are fluffed up with fillers and lacking content.

however, i will give em this, they are trying to bring the tag teams back from extinction (tag teams were always big in other companies, wwe thought otherwise...).


----------



## Riffer

I do like the Sin Cara/Rey Mysterio team and the Kane/Bryan team (even though I think Bryan is way better then what he's being utilized as). The Rhoade Scholars team is pretty entertaining too. You're defintely right about all the fluff and filler with a 3 hour program. It's pretty ridiculous. A lot of the backstage stuff they shoot are pretty akward to me as well. The camera stays way too long on the faces of a person after someone walks away and before they go to a commercial. Also, when they do in ring stuff on the mic they always seem to have a long period of time where there isn't anybody on the mic/nobody walking to the ring/someones music playing/or an akward stare down. It's bad.


----------



## synrgy

Riffer said:


> I do like the Sin Cara/Rey Mysterio team and the Kane/Bryan team (even though I think Bryan is way better then what he's being utilized as). The Rhoade Scholars team is pretty entertaining too. You're defintely right about all the fluff and filler with a 3 hour program. It's pretty ridiculous. A lot of the backstage stuff they shoot are pretty akward to me as well. The camera stays way too long on the faces of a person after someone walks away and before they go to a commercial. Also, when they do in ring stuff on the mic they always seem to have a long period of time where there isn't anybody on the mic/nobody walking to the ring/someones music playing/or an akward stare down. It's bad.



Some of that - in fairness - is just part and parcel with doing a live TV show. That said, VKM/HHH/the writers apparently change stuff at the last possible second more or less _all the time_, and that can't help, either.

Anybody else pick up/picking up WWE '13 for 360?


----------



## synrgy

Jake The Snake and DDP handing out candy for Halloween. Your argument is invalid.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Seriously... What's up with the fake ass sex scandal? We didn't need all that. And AJ looks like a middle schooler...


----------



## Konfyouzd

synrgy said:


> Some of that - in fairness - is just part and parcel with doing a live TV show. That said, VKM/HHH/the writers apparently change stuff at the last possible second more or less _all the time_, and that can't help, either.
> 
> Anybody else pick up/picking up WWE '13 for 360?



Already got it... I see you on all the time.


----------



## synrgy

Konfyouzd said:


> Already got it... I see you on all the time.



I'll toss an invite your way some time soon.


----------



## synrgy

Konfyouzd said:


> Seriously... What's up with the fake ass sex scandal? We didn't need all that. And AJ looks like a middle schooler...



In true 'writing by the seat of their pants' fashion, I think they tossed together the scandal story as a way to keep Cena on TV while he was recovering from elbow surgery.

It's definitely weak-sauce, as are most things related to Vickie Guerrero.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Yea... Vickie is a terrible actress and her "character" is always trying to stir up some shit. 

On top of that, I honestly wouldn't mind NOT seeing John Cena for a little while.

Every time there's a title shot he's SOMEHOW involved... Every night he gets to stand in the middle of the ring and just talk everyone's ear off when we could be watching a match. And I feel like there is a ton of talent they aren't even using just so they can let John Cena do his thing. 

I found out Ricardo Rodriguez is actually a pretty dope wrestler... Why's he have to be Del Rio's bitch still?

Why have we not seen a full on lucha libre match even though we have Hunico, Epico, Primo, Sin Cara and Mysterio? That's MORE than enough ppl for some crazy flippy high flying adventures...

Divas matches... Seriously... Why are they always so short and why does it always have to involve Eve with her non-booty-havin'-but-always-booty-poppin'-Vickie-Guerrero-2.0 ass?

They actually have a lot of really talented females on that show and they always seem to get cut short. I mean there's absolutely no way a bunch of wrestling fans would enjoy watchin' a scantily clad chick fight, right? 

I wish I could write for them.


----------



## synrgy

Konfyouzd said:


> Yea... Vickie is a terrible actress and her "character" is always trying to stir up some shit.
> 
> On top of that, I honestly wouldn't mind NOT seeing John Cena for a little while.
> 
> Every time there's a title shot he's SOMEHOW involved... Every night he gets to stand in the middle of the ring and just talk everyone's ear off when we could be watching a match. And I feel like there is a ton of talent they aren't even using just so they can let John Cena do his thing.
> 
> I found out Ricardo Rodriguez is actually a pretty dope wrestler... Why's he have to be Del Rio's bitch still?
> 
> Why have we not seen a full on lucha libre match even though we have Hunico, Epico, Primo, Sin Cara and Mysterio? That's MORE than enough ppl for some crazy flippy high flying adventures...
> 
> Divas matches... Seriously... Why are they always so short and why does it always have to involve Eve with her non-booty-havin'-but-always-booty-poppin'-Vickie-Guerrero-2.0 ass?
> 
> They actually have a lot of really talented females on that show and they always seem to get cut short. I mean there's absolutely no way a bunch of wrestling fans would enjoy watchin' a scantily clad chick fight, right?
> 
> I wish I could write for them.



I agree on most points, but I'm not with you on the Divas. I think what few matches they have are _mercifully_ short. They had a total of 2 wrestlers among the rest of the models in the Divas division, and one of them just quit last week. All they have left now is Natalya, and they job her/maker her look weak every damn chance they get. I couldn't possibly have less desire to see any of the rest of them wrestle. Managing is one thing, wrestling is another. I don't mind pretty things to look at, but I do mind one botched move after another trying to be passed off as wrestling.

Rodriguez had his first televised match last week, wrestling with a mask on as El Local. As for the lack of lucha libre, let us not forget that this is still Vinny Mac's company. He only believes in one style of wrestling, and the success of anything outside of his box is what he usually considers to be a fluke of some sort. During the peak of WCW Nitro beating Raw in the ratings, a key to WCW's success was the cruiserweight division. Does anybody else recall what happened to the cruiserweight championship under WWE's watch? I do:






Vince is - to this day - still obsessed with the giant, body-builder types. Despite the success of heavyweight champions like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Edge, or CM Punk, he still seems to insist that people don't 'believe' small wrestlers, hence pushing a guy like Ryback - who has virtually zero experience - into the main-event/title scene.

As for Cena, I think his days as 'the top guy' are waning fast. That said, so long as all the kids keep making his merch one of the top cash cows for the company, they're more or less obligated to keep him in the spotlight. Thing is, while I don't like that he gets 80% of the title matches in any calendar year, I'm not a hater; I think he's a great worker.


----------



## mattofvengeance

synrgy said:


> In true 'writing by the seat of their pants' fashion, I think they tossed together the scandal story as a way to keep Cena on TV while he was recovering from elbow surgery.
> 
> It's definitely weak-sauce, as are most things related to Vickie Guerrero.



The absolute worst thing about that "scandal" is the business dinner they had, with AJ all dressed up and Cena in his fucking T shirt and hat. Are you kidding me? 

Also, this Raw being 3 hours thing is the ultimate weak sauce. I truly feel for people who don't have DVR cause there's no way I could watch Raw without it.


----------



## synrgy

Wrestling fans of SS.org, I request your opinions.

Long story short, I have what is effectively a coupon to put $400 toward the purchase of event tickets of my choosing. Wrestlemania just-so-happens to be close to where my fiance's mother lives, this year, and it's been a "bucket-list" item for me for about as long as I can remember.

Basically, I have an opportunity to go to 'Mania whilst only being out of pocket for the gas it'll take me to drive to Jersey and back, and about $65 for taxes/fees on top of the ticket purchases. (Plural because my fiance would go with me. I'm just as shocked as you are that she's willing. )

If you had this opportunity, would you take it, or is there some reason any of you think it'd be a bad idea to go?


----------



## Black Mamba

^ Go for it, last year's Wrestlemania was great, hopefully it will be this year too.


----------



## Robby the Robot

Even though I've been calling it since SS, and I've been wrong for every PPV since, I hope they have Ziggler cash in. Would make sense at Survivor Series, being it's one of the 'Big 4' in the WWE. 


Side note: Who thinks they'll actually have the Rock win the WWE title at the Royal Rumble?


----------



## synrgy

RTheodoppalus said:


> Side note: Who thinks they'll actually have the Rock win the WWE title at the Royal Rumble?



All of the dirt sheets, unfortunately.


----------



## Robby the Robot

synrgy said:


> All of the dirt sheets, unfortunately.



I read on one of the dirt sheets that he's going to have a hectic schedule with movies so it might not happen realistically.


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## ZXIIIT

WrestleMania, go for it!

Funny how both TNA and WWE had the same angle showing elevator scenes on the same week, with 2 people named AJ...


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## synrgy

I took too long to make my decision! (Sad Trombone)

So much for that idea. 

Probably for the best. I dislike being in Jersey enough as it is, without it being stuffed full of 100,000 wrestling fanatics.


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## Riffer

I've never been to a wrestling event but I want to go. Whether it's a PPV or just a Raw or Smackdown event. I heard they are pretty cool and aren't that expensive (the Raw and Smackdown ones).


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## synrgy

Riffer said:


> I've never been to a wrestling event but I want to go. Whether it's a PPV or just a Raw or Smackdown event. I heard they are pretty cool and aren't that expensive (the Raw and Smackdown ones).



Pros/Cons to bear in mind, based on my limited experience:

House shows (shows not taped for TV):
Pro: Tend to be almost all wrestling, very little story or talking. 
Con: As such, it's extremely rare that they ever do anything which would effect the ongoing TV canon.

TV weeklies (Raw/Smackdown):
Pro: Get to be there for what other people only get to see on TV.
Raw Pro: Whatever they do instantly becomes canon, because it broadcasts live.
Smackdown Con: Taped on Tuesdays, don't air until Fridays. Not everything done at the show makes it on the air. Sometimes, they even tape "do-overs" when an in-ring segment doesn't go as well as they'd like on the first try. No, seriously.
Con: Tend to be mostly talking, very little wrestling.
Con: Extremely loud. Like, bring earplugs.

PPV:
Pro: Higher caliber matches/spots/story/etc.
Pro: High likelihood of eventual home release on DVD and or Bluray, which is a nice memento to say the least.
Con: Larger crowds, larger ticket prices, etc. It's great during the event, but getting out of there after the event is over is seriously going to suck.
Con: Extremely loud. Like, bring earplugs.


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## ZXIIIT

Riffer said:


> I've never been to a wrestling event but I want to go. Whether it's a PPV or just a Raw or Smackdown event. I heard they are pretty cool and aren't that expensive (the Raw and Smackdown ones).



If you want pro-wrestling, I suggest hitting up the indy feds (ROH, Chikara, PWG) Not sure if those travel by where you live.

If you want WWE "sports entertainment", then try a PPV, that way you get some wrestling and no TV filler (mic promos, annoying segments)

There's also TNA, but last time I went with some friends (whom are local wrestlers) we ended up dozing off midway through he card....


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## Riffer

Thanks for the info about the different events. I'll look into what's coming around my area and try and get some friends to go and just have a fun time and relive my early teens a little.


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## soliloquy

for those wanting luca libre and curiser weight matches, they did have this;


and they had another sin cara vs mysterio not too long ago.

however, they are rare and far between.

TNA has more of them and far often too. their X division always delivers!



as for divas. i really dont get what wwe is trying to do with them. at one point they were trying to push the 'strong, dominant' divas like beth phonix, natalya and that uoso chick. and they also have 'karma' or awesome kong. however, they are now trying to kill them off and replace them with stupid 'fuck dolls' that have no brain of any sort. and then they push for a more technical female wrestler, only to kill them off too. and if they try to make us take them seriously, their matches are far too short and lack substance. and quiet often they get a 10 on 10 diva match that lasts 2 minutes.

so i ask, what exactly is the purpose of the divas division in wwe? 
i can understand TNA and ROH that actually use their women in fairly well written stories...but wwe?

and after stephanie mchman, no other diva has gotten as much push as AJ. which again begs the question 'why a divas division' in wwe? they just need one or two random female wrestlers once every few years.

on top of that, wwe is still pushing hard on the pg-13 crap, and then they bring in a sex scandal. which begs the question 'why a divas division?'

sure, to be politically correct, then utilize them a bit better. why is it that there WERE women wrestlers in the past like lita, gail kim, and trish, and not any more? and why are the talented female wrestlers attracted to TNA and ROH rather than wwe?


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## synrgy

Spoiler



I'm at a pre taping of this Monday's Raw. Wade Barrett just won the Intercontinental Championship from Kofi Kingston.


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## soliloquy

/\ are live shows worth watching?


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## Riffer

Haven't been back in this thread in awhile. Read the results of the Royal Rumble today. I'm putting my money on the fact that it wasnt The Shield during the black out and that will in turn make CM Punk still champ. But that's just my guess. Also, some people were saying that CM Punk had to lose the title so he could face Taker at WM? I do like the way that sounds too though. Hopefully tonights RAW will have some answers.


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## Robby the Robot

Kind of a necrobump but I think it's time for one.

So if you've been keeping up with the WWE, there's a Tables Ladders and Chairs match at the next PPV for both the WWE and World Heavyweight Championship. Now, the never used the word 'unification' or 'undisputed champion' so I wouldn't put it past the WWE to have Randy Orton and John Cena swap titles. With that being said, we don't need to see a title unification, again.  Especially not with these two in the match.


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## Riffer

Totally forgot this thread was around. Did anybody see Jake the Snake Roberts on RAW this past Monday? It was awesome!!!


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## Ralyks

If anythings worth necrobumping in this thread, it's the awesomeness that is the upcoming WWE Network.

Looks like I'm setting aside a weekend for an ECW PPV marathon.


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## Riffer

The WWE Network looks pretty sweet. I'm going to wait and see how the reviews about it sound before I get a subscription to it. 

On another note, I'm excited for Batistas return as well. Hopefully he has a good run and can add some excitement to the main event scene. I'm getting really tired of Randy Orton and John Cena. Also looking forward to Daniel Bryan turning against the Wyatt Family. 

Anybody have any guesses on who will be Undertakers opponent at WM 30?


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS

I havent been into rastlin since the good ol stone cold days. Not long after steve austin left I just got bored. I tried watching recently and just felt lost


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## Riffer

Anybody see the end of RAW last night? That crowd was going apesh1t for Daniel Bryan when he turned back to face and attacked Bray Wyatt in the cage. Fukkin Awesome!!!!


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## Robby the Robot

^Even when D-Bry was a 'heel' he was still over with the crowd. I've been bad at calling these things but I think he'll win the Royal Rumble this year.

On a side note: I'm excited but apprehensive about the WWE Network. We'll see what happens in the first few weeks then I'll decide to buy or not. I just hope they don't blur out all the WWF logs from all eras. Not a deal breaker for me but would make it harder for me to buy


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## Ralyks

RTheodoppalus said:


> I just hope they don't blur out all the WWF logs from all eras. Not a deal breaker for me but would make it harder for me to buy


 
I'm pretty sure they made a deal with the World Wildlife Fund that they don't have to do any of that blurring and such anymore. I'd imagine that would be a huge hassle to blur ALL that footage for the network. Same deal with them showing Chris Benoit in their footage now.


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## Robby the Robot

Ralyks said:


> I'm pretty sure they made a deal with the World Wildlife Fund that they don't have to do any of that blurring and such anymore. I'd imagine that would be a huge hassle to blur ALL that footage for the network. Same deal with them showing Chris Benoit in their footage now.



I hate the fact that they blur in the first place, but usually pre-Attitude Era they usually don't blur logs from the Golden Age and New Generation. Only reason I worry because when they had Ultimate Warrior footage from the WWF days the logos were blurred, but the new HHH DVD New Generation and Attitude Era logos were left alone. I'm sure World Wildlife Fund has loosened their grips when it comes to logos and such, given that their logos are totally different. 


Speaking of Warrior: Congrats on getting into the WWE HOF


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## Riffer

If they don't put ....ing Randy Savage in the HOF I'm going to be pissed!


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## Riffer

RTheodoppalus said:


> I've been bad at calling these things but I think he'll win the Royal Rumble this year.



I don't know dude. With Batista coming back, Roman Reigns about to get a big push, and Brock Lesnar being back, it looks like they might go with one of those guys winning. I'd love for Bryan to win the Rumble and get a rematch for the title though for sure. 

Also I'm looking forward to whatever CM Punk is getting into. The New Age Outlaws turned on him and let The Shield have at him so I'd like to see what this leads too. I've heard something about a CM Punk/HHH feud since Road Dogg and Billy Gunn are HHH's buddies, so who knows. They already had a feud a few years ago so this wouldn't be that fresh. But I just like hearing some Living Colour on national TV.


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## Robby the Robot

Riffer said:


> I don't know dude. With Batista coming back, Roman Reigns about to get a big push, and Brock Lesnar being back, it looks like they might go with one of those guys winning. I'd love for Bryan to win the Rumble and get a rematch for the title though for sure.
> 
> Also I'm looking forward to whatever CM Punk is getting into. The New Age Outlaws turned on him and let The Shield have at him so I'd like to see what this leads too. I've heard something about a CM Punk/HHH feud since Road Dogg and Billy Gunn are HHH's buddies, so who knows. They already had a feud a few years ago so this wouldn't be that fresh. But I just like hearing some Living Colour on national TV.



I don't see Bryan winning now as well because it's reported and confirmed he now has a concussion. Don't know the severity, but that's a big blow now he and Ziggler could be out with the Rumble around the corner. I see your point, the Rumble should be interesting with those three big dudes.


----------



## Riffer

Word is CM Punk quit for real. Still not 100% if it's real or just a work but could be interesting. 

Also, the Royal Rumble was kinda dumb. Lets have a guy thats been out 4 years come back and win the Rumble so he can main event Wrestlemania. Meanwhile they don't even put the most popular guy in the company (Bryan) in the Rumble at all.

Another thing is that Sting might be signing with WWE soon. I know thats alays a huge rumor every year but a guy can dream right? I would love for him to sign and do something at Wrestlemania.


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## Rick

Riffer said:


> Another thing is that Sting might be signing with WWE soon. I know thats alays a huge rumor every year but a guy can dream right? I would love for him to sign and do something at Wrestlemania.



I've heard that he'd show up on RAW the day after WM and would be huge in promoting the WCW side of the WWE Network footage.


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## bobbybuu

Riffer said:


> Another thing is that Sting might be signing with WWE soon. I know thats alays a huge rumor every year but a guy can dream right? I would love for him to sign and do something at Wrestlemania.





Rick said:


> I've heard that he'd show up on RAW the day after WM and would be huge in promoting the WCW side of the WWE Network footage.



That would be so cool. I would still like to see him at WM though.


----------



## Robby the Robot

Well, The Undertaker's streak is finally over. I don't necessarily mind that it's over, it's how it went down and who it went down to. That ending was really really weird. Also, this whole setup for Daniel Bryan to be champ was genius.  Don't know how I feel about the rest of the card. Weird Wrestlemania if you ask me.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Brock Lesnar!!!!!


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## Ralyks

The whole room with the party I was at watching WM looked exactly like the crowd at the Superdome after Undertaker lost. Just... Damn. Really wish it could have gone to someone like Bray Wyatt. Such an anticlimatic ending to a story as lengthy and epic as The Streak, to a part timer no less.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Lesnar winning really didn't bother me that much. I'm more pissed Wyatt didn't beat Cena.


----------



## Ralyks

Konfyouzd said:


> Lesnar winning really didn't bother me that much. I'm more pissed Wyatt didn't beat Cena.


 
That too.

Although I was VERY happy with Cesaro winning the Battle Royale.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Yea and the Daniel Bryan stuff to me just came across like "about damn time!"


----------



## protest

I don't follow it anymore but I watch Wrestlemania occasionally. I caught the last two, and I thought this was better than last year.

Taker should have lost last year. Shouldn't have been to Lesnar.

HHH's match was better this time around, due to Bryan being more exciting than Lesnar. I like the hillbilly serial killer gimmic (very Raven like), but it was an odd match. I thought Cena's limitations in ring, and as a face really hampered the whole thing.

They need to find someone to feud with that guy though because it could be a pretty epic Raven vs Dreamer like story line.


----------



## Konfyouzd

I'm just so goddamn tired of John Cena.

I mean... If he did ANYTHING to show that he was trying to expand his move set or acting ability... Something...

He's just been the same thing day in and day out since he started and it's just getting boring. 

Yea... You're there every night and yes you might work pretty hard in comparision to some of the other folks in the locker room but listening to him say that every day while delivering the same boring shit I've been watching forever just makes him look like that old guy in the office that is more or less obsolete now but keeps pointing to how they have a perfect attendance record...


----------



## Robby the Robot

Ralyks said:


> The whole room with the party I was at watching WM looked exactly like the crowd at the Superdome after Undertaker lost. Just... Damn. Really wish it could have gone to someone like Bray Wyatt. Such an anticlimatic ending to a story as lengthy and epic as The Streak, to a part timer no less.


I was thinking the exact same thing. With the whole 'legacy' thing they had built up with the Cena vs Wyatt match, I think Undertaker would've been a better choice than Cena. Shows you how much faith they have in the guy right now.



Konfyouzd said:


> Lesnar winning really didn't bother me that much. I'm more pissed Wyatt didn't beat Cena.


Same here. That match was just weird but the ending was too typical.



Ralyks said:


> That too.
> 
> Although I was VERY happy with Cesaro winning the Battle Royale.



I'm happy for Cesaro winning as well. Hopefully some good things are in his future. I also hope they put him and Bryan in a match together but that's just me.


----------



## Konfyouzd

I thought Lesnar had him the first time he threw him in the kimura honestly... I've never seen anyone get out of it the way Undertaker did...


----------



## Volsung

A bit of a bump but...







The match was more of a Brock Lesnar squash fest surprisingly. Who ever beats Brock for the title in the future is going to look great since they've crafted him as an unstoppable monster.

Great show overall.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

As an anti-Cena guy...what should I say? ^____^

It's like from forever that I don't follow wrestling with consistence.

Actually from the moment Jeff Hardy and John Morrison left.

WWE is putting up a childish show, I was more an ECW kind of guy...


----------



## Ralyks

I'm nervous that Roman Reigns is going to be the guy they push to dethrone Lesnar. I like Reigns, but he is not ready yet. I'd love it if Daniel Bryan came back to slay the beast, or the man who is doing some of the best work I've seen in years, Dean Ambrose.


----------



## Robby the Robot

Ralyks said:


> I'm nervous that Roman Reigns is going to be the guy they push to dethrone Lesnar. I like Reigns, but he is not ready yet. I'd love it if Daniel Bryan came back to slay the beast, or the man who is doing some of the best work I've seen in years, Dean Ambrose.



As much as I would love to seen Dean as champ, this rivalry with Seth Rollins they have him in right now is some of the best work they've had in YEARS


----------



## Hollowman

I was enjoying the Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose rivalry until they had to "hiatus it" due to Ambrose starting on the film Lockdown, He and Rollins work well against each other and they are Entertaining in an otherwise starting to stale rehashed group of story-lines from week to week..

As for Lesner his asskicking of Cena at Summer Slam should provide for more interesting goings on there isn't many that are as physically gifted as Lesner or have his attitude for that matter..


----------



## Carrion Rocket

The only reason I even bother with the WWE product nowadays is to see Ambrose kill Rollins and see what/who Sandow is going to mock/impersonate next.


----------



## Riffer

OH MY GOD!!! Survivor Series was awesome last night. The long awaited debut of Sting happened and it blew my mind!!! I felt like I was 11 years old again. So nostalgic!!! 

Sting Changes Landscape of WWE During Survivor Series Main Event | Bleacher Report


----------



## Volsung

Stinger showing up is definitely a cool thing. I didn't watch TNA to see how well he was holding up, but if that Scorpion Death Drop was any indication of how his body will hold up...then I think he'll do just fine. I just hope he's used wisely. 

Now to change the subject a bit, CM Punk finally opened up about his departure in January. It is one hell of a story and kind of a downer, but it has to be heard if you're a wrestling fan. 



I can't wait for Colt's next episode with Punk. Plus I'm glad that Colt is adamant that there will be no stupid-fan-sent shoot questions like, "how big is Batista's d*ck" (for fans who listen to YouShoots, you know what I'm talking about...)


----------



## justinreagin

Damn, my age shows. I'm still back in the Ultimate Warrior days!


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