# My love/hate relationship with the Nazgul



## RustInPeace (Jan 29, 2015)

Hi.


So I've been playing the 7 string naz in my km-7 since I got it. I loved it at first - its tight, aggressive, and clear. But ever since I got it I always find trouble in controlling the top end. Its that damn upper mid spike that gives it the bkp aftermath/djent flavoured mid honk, and unfortunately I do not dj0nt. Basically, if the nazgul didnt have that damn upper mid spike, it would be just perfect, but its there and I cant change that.

On the other hand, it damn well roars. I love how it stays clear with big chords and sounds nasty as ..... It also pairs mighty well with the sentient. I have zero issues with the sentient actually, awesome pickup.

Sigh. Finding the right pickups for a guitar is so damn hard. I've been considering a few options:

-Stay with it.

-Try the pegasus. This looks like it has a rolled off treble and bass according to SD's tone charts, but the lower output is kinda lame. I do like high output for a bridge pup - my favorite bridge pup is the EMG JH right now.

-Try a black winter. Im getting mixed signals from what im reading - the SD site says the EQ is about 6/6/6 or even across the board (the nazgul lists as 6/9/8). Others on this site are saying its really crisp in the highs - similar to the nazgul? I cant tell.

-Try a BK _____ (warpig maybe?) I dont want to pay $234326.94 CAD for one damn pickup.

-EMG 57/66 or 81-7x 60-7x. I have the 57/66 and jh set in other guitars and they rule. The only problem here is the KM-7 leaves ABSOLUTELY ZERO room in the control cavity for all of emg's stupid little boards and a battery. Derp.

Suggestions welcome. I love the tightness and consistency that actives bring. I love the versatility of coil splits and openess of passives. I dont generally like low output pickups. I play progressive/thrash/everything in between except djent.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jan 29, 2015)

I'd try the Distortion if you want to stick with Duncans to match the pickup covers. The Nazgul is more or less a modded Distortion with more upper mids/highs and slightly tighter bottom end, but that's not to say the Dist. is loose. 

The ceramic Warpig can do no wrong in my book


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## RustInPeace (Jan 29, 2015)

I've owned a distortion before in a basswood Ibby premium 7. I kinda felt that it got a bit too fuzzy sometimes. Too much gain on it?


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jan 29, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> I've owned a distortion before in a basswood Ibby premium 7. I kinda felt that it got a bit too fuzzy sometimes. Too much gain on it?



That was kind of also my experience with the Distortion, but others seem to love it haha

You may also dig the D-Activator 7 bridge. I've had a few in different guitars and it seems to like neutral to brighter guitars, so it'll probably kick ass in your KM-7.


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## Shask (Jan 29, 2015)

That is funny because I have said many times I thought the Distortion kinda sounded like it was always going through a fuzz pedal, but people think I am crazy! 

I recently got a Duncan Custom, and I am loving it. Its a great pickup, but it is bright also with lots of treble and upper mids. It is very tight and clear though.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Jan 29, 2015)

A few options that came to mind:

1) Use an EQ pedal to reduce the high-mids (this way you get to keep everything you love about the Nazgul and control the frequencies you don't like)
2) Try a Duncan Distortion or Black Winter (be sure to order them with the covers to match your sentient)


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jan 29, 2015)

when i first saw the tread title, i thought to myself, "this must be a strange & painful relationship."

then i saw you were talking about pick-ups...


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## Legion (Jan 29, 2015)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> when i first saw the tread title, i thought to myself, "this must be a strange & painful relationship."
> 
> then i saw you were talking about pick-ups...



I imagined OP being molested with a Morgul Blade


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## Mike (Jan 29, 2015)

Distortion is basically trading that upper mid spike for a top end spike instead. You'd also be sacrificing that roar for more midrange body. My votes for the d activator. Very similar output to the Nazgul, maybe just a tad more. Similar clarity and roar, but much more balanced as far as lows not being overbearing, mids not honky, and highs not shrill. 

I'd also probably think of changing the sentient to a liquifire. Feel and outputwise I think it matches the d activator better plus it still has that nice smooth but cutting lead tone with a tad more power than the sentient.

Edit: Also you'd more than likely be able to do this at little to no cost to you with what you'd be able to sell the nazgul/sentient for vs the cost of a d activator/liquifire set.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jan 30, 2015)

This is all great advice above. One more option would be to ask SD to make a custom Nazgul for you with a lower mid/high spike. It'll cost a few though, similar to a BKP. Another option is a custom Black Winter with an AV magent. The BW is a very flat EQ, and I wanted to darken the pickup for a brighter guitar, without loosing the voicing. It's glorious. One of my favorite pickups ever. Lastly, I asked for a custom BW/Nazgul hybrid for a custom build, which isn't finished yet so I have no clue what the sound will be like. 

The D'Activator or C-Pig are great alternatives for that guitar as well.


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## Grindspine (Jan 30, 2015)

Alnico 8 Humbucker Bar Magnet Rough 2 50" L 1 Piece Magnetized | eBay

I had a similar problem with a Duncan JB.. that damn signature mid spike. I traded out the Alnico V magnet for an Alnico VIII and got a much smoother response.

Being that the Nazgul is ceramic, swapping the mag out for Alnico VIII will keep the low end pretty tight, but smooth the high end without getting the sound of the Pegasus.

The six-string magnets are just long enough to reach all of the slugs on a seven-string pickup.

It would be something cheap to try if you're comfortable doing minor surgery on your humbuckers.


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## faqfoo (Jan 30, 2015)

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> This is all great advice above. One more option would be to ask SD to make a custom Nazgul for you with a lower mid/high spike. It'll cost a few though, similar to a BKP. Another option is a custom Black Winter with an AV magent. The BW is a very flat EQ, and I wanted to darken the pickup for a brighter guitar, without loosing the voicing. It's glorious. One of my favorite pickups ever. Lastly, I asked for a custom BW/Nazgul hybrid for a custom build, which isn't finished yet so I have no clue what the sound will be like.
> 
> The D'Activator or C-Pig are great alternatives for that guitar as well.


 

C-pig is stupid awesome but the price is just stupid but ya get what ya pay for!!
IMO D-activator is a great PU but "shrilly?" ( to much mids...)as well, not my taste, but the D Activator X??? just a bada** pickup!!!! Try it or youtube it


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## RustInPeace (Jan 30, 2015)

I've tried the liquifire in several guitars both 6 and 7 variants and I hate it. The sentient is a superior pickup!

Is the BW with an AV a custom shop? Custom shop prices match bkp's so its a tough call..


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 30, 2015)

The Pegasus is very different to the Nazgul. Its similar to the Holy Diver which is like a JB.

I did a search on the Black Winter and some people said its even brighter than the Nazgul. 

I find the Bare Knuckle Ceramic Nailbomb is quite similar to the Nazgul. Not as hot, tight or clear but with a smoother top end and saturated sound. 



Grindspine said:


> I had a similar problem with a Duncan JB.. that damn signature mid spike. I traded out the Alnico V magnet for an Alnico VIII and got a much smoother response.



I'm going to try this soon on one of my Nazguls.


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## Chrisjd (Jan 30, 2015)

to me, that upper mid cut is what makes the Nazgul so awesome for 7 strings. it helps define and articulate the lower notes we play. I can generally control any unwanted frequencies through my amp, and an added eq if need be.

I love the Nazgul. I actually don't find it that bright, especially coming from playing duncan distortions in all my guitars.


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## RustInPeace (Jan 30, 2015)

The nazgul sounds exactly like an aftermath with more gain, to me anyways.


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## Chrisjd (Jan 30, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> The nazgul sounds exactly like an aftermath with more gain, to me anyways.



IMO: Nazgul>>>>>>>>>>>>>Aftermath.


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## chopeth (Jan 30, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> I've tried the liquifire in several guitars both 6 and 7 variants and I hate it. The sentient is a superior pickup!



I disagree, the LF is my favourite neck pickup, the sentient sounds great, but I still prefer the Jazz over it too. Maybe playing with the height would change your mind.

In respect to the topic, I think the Nazgul is the best one I've ever tried for metal (didn't try the BK pups yet anyway)


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## Legion (Jan 30, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> The nazgul sounds exactly like an aftermath with more gain, to me anyways.



I thought I was the only one who felt this way!


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## Bearitone (Feb 3, 2015)

I've got a KM-7 and I feel the same way about the nazgul. I ordered ceramic Warpig bridge pickup and I'll let you know how it turns out once it's in there.


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## SKoG (Feb 3, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> Hi.
> 
> -EMG 57/66 or 81-7x 60-7x. I have the 57/66 and jh set in other guitars and they rule. The only problem here is the KM-7 leaves ABSOLUTELY ZERO room in the control cavity for all of emg's stupid little boards and a battery. Derp.



Is there enough room for just the battery? Because you should be able to get everything you need to use the traditional solder method without the pickup buss board.


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## Zhysick (Feb 3, 2015)

Change the magnet for AlNiCo V.

I did it with mine.

Awesome.

Same aggressiveness and output (more or less, but nothing perceptible with the magnet I used) and tame a lot that "shrillness" (eh? does that word exists? ) that I didn't like about the Nazgul also.

Cheap. Easy. Amazing


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Feb 3, 2015)

kindsage said:


> I've got a KM-7 and I feel the same way about the nazgul. I ordered ceramic Warpig bridge pickup and I'll let you know how it turns out once it's in there.


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## UnattendedGolfcart (Feb 3, 2015)

I emailed SD about pickup options for my C-7 once and Keith responded to me. He said that when he doesn't use a Nazgul for the bridge he's using a Distortion. I think it'll stay overall close to the tight Nazgul sound but it won't have the mid honk going on. 



TheWarAgainstTime said:


> I'd try the Distortion if you want to stick with Duncans to match the pickup covers. The Nazgul is more or less a modded Distortion with more upper mids/highs and slightly tighter bottom end, but that's not to say the Dist. is loose.
> 
> The ceramic Warpig can do no wrong in my book



Dude, I'm telling you right now so you can hold me to it later, based on all of your pickup posts you have pretty much convinced me to get a C-Pig/Liquifire set in the next guitar I get


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Feb 3, 2015)

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> Dude, I'm telling you right now so you can hold me to it later, based on all of your pickup posts you have pretty much convinced me to get a C-Pig/Liquifire set in the next guitar I get



Do it up! I love that pair in my 7620


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## RustInPeace (Feb 6, 2015)

Zhysick said:


> Change the magnet for AlNiCo V.
> 
> I did it with mine.
> 
> ...



Where did you get the magnet from? Instructions for how-to?

EDIT: Nevermind, just ebay'd it


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## Zhysick (Feb 6, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> Where did you get the magnet from? Instructions for how-to?
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, just ebay'd it



Well... yes, you can buy different ones from eBay... I used one of a pickup I had lying around then.

Instructions... I followed a tutorial or similar of the Seymour Duncan Blog... This one: 

Tinkering with Pickups 102


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## 7JxN7 (Feb 6, 2015)

I put a Sentient/Nazgul combo in a RG7321 I gave a make over to. I have always been a fan of Distortions, but usually in a Mahogany body. After reading about the similarities between the Nazgul and Distortion I had to try one out.

My first impression of the Nazgul in that guitar was not good, I didn't really get along with it well at all, and even warned a couple of friends off getting them when they asked what i thought about it. Fast forward about 3 months, and i am loving the Nazgul now. A few little tweaks on my amp and it now sounds huge and articulate at the same time. Even using that RG7321 on some recordings I have coming up over my Uni and BKP loaded guitars.


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## sevenstringj (Feb 7, 2015)

I just googled pics of the KM7. Damn, you weren't kidding. That control cavity is dumb small. But rest assured, that extra 200cm³ of wood is where all the tone is. 

Since you know you like the EMGs, there's this little gizmo: EMG Pickups / ES-9 / Power Supplies


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## 7stg (Feb 7, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> -Try a black winter. ... the SD site says the EQ is about *6/6/6* or even across the board (the nazgul lists as 6/9/8). Others on this site are saying its really crisp in the highs - similar to the nazgul? I cant tell.



That means it sounds evil. 666, one of the numbers of the beast. It was designed for black metal.

Here is the black winter compared to the nazgul


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## RustInPeace (Feb 19, 2015)

So I got the Alnico V in last night and holy shit... what a difference! The highs and mids are smoothed out to be much more manageable, although the pickup is still aggressive with plenty of bite! The only con I can see so far is the cleans now suck, but thats ok, cause I play cleans with the neck pup anyways!


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## Zhysick (Feb 19, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> So I got the Alnico V in last night and holy shit... what a difference! The highs and mids are smoothed out to be much more manageable, although the pickup is still aggressive with plenty of bite! The only con I can see so far is the cleans now suck, but thats ok, cause I play cleans with the neck pup anyways!



Glad you liked it!


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## mikah912 (Feb 19, 2015)

Am I reading something wrong? I thought the Nazgul was ALREADY an Alnico V magnet pickup. What's different now that the OP put in an Alnico V magnet?


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## AkiraSpectrum (Feb 19, 2015)

mikah912 said:


> Am I reading something wrong? I thought the Nazgul was ALREADY an Alnico V magnet pickup. What's different now that the OP put in an Alnico V magnet?



Nazgul uses a ceramic magnet. The Pegasus and Sentient each use Alnico V's.


"description:
Created for total sonic obliteration, the Nazgûl starts where most passive high output pickups stop. The large ceramic magnet serves up aggressive tones for brutal, drop-tuned, chugging riffs, while the mid range is specifically voiced to bring out the definition from the B & F# strings. Fear not, though, for all of the gain and ruthless attack you're going to use, the notes will still remain fluid and articulate."
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/78-string/7_string_nazgl/


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## RustInPeace (Feb 19, 2015)

The Nazgul sounds exactly like an Aftermath with more gain - a high mid spike that gives "clarity". On Sd's tone chart the Naz is listed at 5/9/8, but with the alnico it sounds more like 5/5/7. I can actually dial in more bass now without it getting flubby.

You can really hear it on the Conquering Dystopia album. I thought I liked the pickup at first, but ended up not being able to control the mids and highs the way I wanted, so changing the magnet gave it a more neutral sound, while still being high gain.


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## crankyrayhanky (Feb 19, 2015)

RustInPeace said:


> So I got the Alnico V in last night and holy shit... what a difference! The highs and mids are smoothed out to be much more manageable, although the pickup is still aggressive with plenty of bite! The only con I can see so far is the cleans now suck, but thats ok, cause I play cleans with the neck pup anyways!


That's surprising, I thought Alnicos were better for cleans than ceramic?


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## RustInPeace (Feb 19, 2015)

Thats hard to say, as my favorite clean tone ever was a EMG jh neck pup (which has ceramic pole magnets) through a Mark v.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 19, 2015)

Can you get some sound clips up? I'm really eager to hear how it sounds. I'm thinking of getting an Alnico VIII for mine so it has the best of both magnets. 



crankyrayhanky said:


> That's surprising, I thought Alnicos were better for cleans than ceramic?



It depends on the pickup and how its voiced. The best clean tones I've got were from a set of Bare Knuckle Miracle Mans which are high-output ceramics, when split they sounded amazing.


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## RustInPeace (Feb 19, 2015)

Ill see if I still have a dry guitar in recording somewhere...

The mid and treble spikes were incredibly noticeable when recording!!!


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## crankyrayhanky (Feb 20, 2015)

Maybe it needs to be sunken down more? These shrill high end comments are surprising to me. I could see the pickup not being for everybody, but not for that reason, the highs are super smooth in my axe. The tiniest adjustments yields big changes on this pickup, moreso than others it seems


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## ExtronMados (Mar 23, 2016)

Anyone know the pickup height the keith uses for his nazgul/ sentient set? both bass and treble on both pickups would be appreciated


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## Alex79 (Mar 27, 2016)

RustInPeace said:


> The nazgul sounds exactly like an aftermath with more gain, to me anyways.



The main reason I would guess (just from what I'm picking up) is that - as a careful generalisation - BKP use non-symmetrical coils, i.e. not identical coils, whereas typically SD use symmetrical coils. Then add in the scatterwinding from BKP and you can see the main build differences: wider frequency range, less output, more dynamics and more airyness as opposed to the typical SD. BTW, I would characterise these as "different qualities", not necessarily "better qualities". 


Now the Aftermath breaks with that BKP tradition by using symmetrical coils, and has a more compressed feel to it. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised that these pickups sound so similar, even if they are from different manufacturers.


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