# Double Bass questions, on technique and setup



## Xenos0176 (Apr 28, 2011)

Alright, i'll introduce myself as being a drummer for 7 years, i've been playing double bass for 2-3 years and i'm finally wanting to improve endurance and speed for rolls because i can mainly do the quick little spurts on double bass. I know i'm supposed to practice with a metronome and i did start doing that. I'm also trying to use leg weights as a kind of resistance training as well which i may be looking for help for that

I've also been curious to my bass pedal tension and beater distance and ill get numbers soon so i can be more specific.

I have a mapex pedal and i havent had any technical problems with it

I recently watched the Bass Drum Boot Camp videos and i got interested in the flat foot technique.

I'm betting i need either to move my beaters back or something cuz i feel i can't get my ankles right for that. I've attempted to play somewhat sideways with my feet to try to get my ankles lower and i dont know if that's too low. I'll try posting pics of my setup and pedals to make this clear.

SO, BACK TO MY FIRST QUESTION:
When i play for at least a half hour or so, single pedal or double pedal my right leg is always feeling strained, i think it's mainly my thigh that's doing that, and usually no matter how much double bass i play, my left thigh/leg never bothers me. HELP?!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 28, 2011)

Xenos0176 said:


> Alright, i'll introduce myself as being a drummer for 7 years, i've been playing double bass for 2-3 years and i'm finally wanting to improve endurance and speed for rolls because i can mainly do the quick little spurts on double bass. I know i'm supposed to practice with a metronome and i did start doing that. I'm also trying to use leg weights as a kind of resistance training as well which i may be looking for help for that
> 
> I've also been curious to my bass pedal tension and beater distance and ill get numbers soon so i can be more specific.
> 
> ...


 
I've seen some ppl do this weird swivel move with their feet when they get up into the higher speeds. I'm not quite sure what it does bc I'm not a drummer but my friends that drum say that it makes sustaining high speeds a little easier.

By swivel move I mean they seem to swing their heel to and fro on either one or both feet.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Apr 28, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> I've seen some ppl do this weird swivel move with their feet when they get up into the higher speeds. I'm not quite sure what it does bc I'm not a drummer but my friends that drum say that it makes sustaining high speeds a little easier.
> 
> By swivel move I mean they seem to swing their heel to and fro on either one or both feet.



leave it to the drummers broski

First off, forget leg weights, you can achieve what they do in your settings.

What mapex pedals are you using? this may be a hazard to developing your best speeds in the long run, but that also depends what speeds you wanna reach.

Also, what parts of your leg feel strained when playing? this identifies how you're playing.

Flat foot is a preference, one I would not recommend to you unless you were highly familiar with db drumming.

Let's start there.

DB drumming is all about being efficient, and you have to work to get to an optimal level for it, but there's ways to get less strain and more power and speed. (just like your mother likes it trebek!)


----------



## Xenos0176 (Apr 29, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> leave it to the drummers broski
> 
> First off, forget leg weights, you can achieve what they do in your settings.
> 
> ...


 

Alright so firstly, the mapex pedal i have is the p780 double pedal, and more than anything it's my thigh as far as i know that feels strained after playing. 
I do feel pretty familiar with double bass drumming. I feel like i have a lot of the basic concepts down pat.
I feel like i need to watch the vids on flat foot technique again because i doubt im doing it right because i feel like im still using all of my leg and not the other muscles you're supposed to use for it


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Apr 29, 2011)

if you can, invest in something more adjustable, elims, taye, or the new falcon/raptors would work, yamaha makes good pedals too.

if i were you, i'd go with swivel. i'd assume you arent playing heel/toe, which takes a lot of time to develop
doing swivel is easy to get into and its rather fluid.
if you're not familiar (which i really hope you are) with tim watterson, check his vids on youtube, he covers about every technique on db drumming, and has great lessons on swivel.

as far as the thigh, idk, kinda puzzled there, are you lifting your foot off the pedal on every stroke?


----------



## Xenos0176 (Apr 29, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> if you can, invest in something more adjustable, elims, taye, or the new falcon/raptors would work, yamaha makes good pedals too.
> 
> if i were you, i'd go with swivel. i'd assume you arent playing heel/toe, which takes a lot of time to develop
> doing swivel is easy to get into and its rather fluid.
> ...


 
I was thinking of investing in a really high end double bass pedal like the pearl demon drive, but my dad told me to hold off until the bands i'm in got more popular so i could get some good use out of it.

I usually play just heel up on double bass and i usually keep my right foot always on my bass pedal when playing every stroke, even when heel up the front of my foot will always be on the pedal


----------



## Xenos0176 (Apr 30, 2011)

also my beaters are about 4" away from my head, is this a good distance?


----------



## rogrotten (Apr 30, 2011)

to achieve high speed I have the tension in my pedals cranked all the way up and my beaters like 6" away from the head.
You might be tensing up too much when you play, when you are playing double pedal, try and keep your ankles like 2 or 3 inches away from the ground this will help your posture as well as your stability when playing. Also playing fast does not mean lifting you leg up and down really fast ( I know there are some drummers that do this). It is more of an ankle motion so what I do to work on this, is just put both of my feet in the pedals without pressing down to hard so your beaters don't reach the drumhead and then press down on one pedal just moving the ankle ( your leg will move a little that's normal at slow speeds). keep in mind that while you do that with one foot the other one has to stay where it was ( don't bring your ankle down to the floor).
Well I hope this helps


----------



## Xenos0176 (Apr 30, 2011)

rogrotten said:


> to achieve high speed I have the tension in my pedals cranked all the way up and my beaters like 6" away from the head.
> You might be tensing up too much when you play, when you are playing double pedal, try and keep your ankles like 2 or 3 inches away from the ground this will help your posture as well as your stability when playing. Also playing fast does not mean lifting you leg up and down really fast ( I know there are some drummers that do this). It is more of an ankle motion so what I do to work on this, is just put both of my feet in the pedals without pressing down to hard so your beaters don't reach the drumhead and then press down on one pedal just moving the ankle ( your leg will move a little that's normal at slow speeds). keep in mind that while you do that with one foot the other one has to stay where it was ( don't bring your ankle down to the floor).
> Well I hope this helps


 
yea i think that helps, ill probably move back my beaters but idk if ill get 2" more cuz they seem to go back ridiculously far at that point but i think i will go with that cuz my pedals do feel really lower than they should be


----------



## rogrotten (Apr 30, 2011)

If you tighten your spring tension it shouldn't go back that much


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 30, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> leave it to the drummers broski
> 
> First off, forget leg weights, you can achieve what they do in your settings.
> 
> ...



Right bc non drummers couldn't possibly have anything to add... 

I'z sorry Suh... I'z too stoopid to undastand yo newfangled instruhmentz...


----------



## TRENCHLORD (May 1, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMGqhYVwOJAYou can always learn alot from watching those who have mastered their craft.


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 1, 2011)

rogrotten said:


> If you tighten your spring tension it shouldn't go back that much


 i meant beater distance not spring tension. I know my beaters dont move back much with spring tension


----------



## Andii (May 2, 2011)

A good beater angle is 45 degrees. The springs on most pedals need to be maxed out because they don't really have much tension.

The technique that works best is heel up. It's the cleanest and hardest hitting technique, and those two things go hand in hand. 


Start off very slow with double bass. Hit the kick really hard and concentrate on having the hits very even. After some time your muscles will build up and you will be able to increase the speed and keep it powerful. It's a lot like lifting weights it takes time.

Also don't worry about what pedals you are using. Other than the cheapest cheapest crap that falls apart you can definitely get the job done on anything.


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 2, 2011)

all good suggestions. +1 for the kollias vid


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 2, 2011)

Andii said:


> A good beater angle is 45 degrees. The springs on most pedals need to be maxed out because they don't really have much tension.
> 
> The technique that works best is heel up. It's the cleanest and hardest hitting technique, and those two things go hand in hand.
> 
> ...


 
Should i bother using ankle weights u think?


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 2, 2011)

no way man, you dont need them, most of the power and motion comes from your ankle, weights wont do crap


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 2, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> no way man, you dont need them, most of the power and motion comes from your ankle, weights wont do crap


 
Alright well, what about my distance sitting up on my seat(like how high the seat is)/far or close to my kit? Ive heard ur supposed to sit up higher to make an angle with ur thighs thats supposed to be above like 90 or 100 i cant remember what number tho, but im not too sure if i should sit close to my kit or not if thatd help


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 2, 2011)

Xenos0176 said:


> Alright well, what about my distance sitting up on my seat(like how high the seat is)/far or close to my kit? Ive heard ur supposed to sit up higher to make an angle with ur thighs thats supposed to be above like 90 or 100 i cant remember what number tho, but im not too sure if i should sit close to my kit or not if thatd help



Not a huge difference unless you're playing at a retarded angle play where you feel comfortable. dont create unnecessary strain


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 3, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> Not a huge difference unless you're playing at a retarded angle play where you feel comfortable. dont create unnecessary strain


 
Well i'm not entirely sure why my right thigh is always feeling strained after i play, even when i play on another kit im having the same problem


----------



## Andii (May 3, 2011)

No. once you hit a certain speed your legs will sit still and your ankles will do the work.

Your legs weigh enough as it is when you're doing full leg movement.


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 3, 2011)

that makes sense, i understand all of that stuff, but i dont know why my leg is hurting me when i play, no one seemse to know why that is. No matter what i'm playing: rock, metal, jazz all that stuff it just bothers me


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 9, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> if you can, invest in something more adjustable, elims, taye, or the new falcon/raptors would work, yamaha makes good pedals too.
> 
> if i were you, i'd go with swivel. i'd assume you arent playing heel/toe, which takes a lot of time to develop
> doing swivel is easy to get into and its rather fluid.
> ...


 
Thanks for the swivel idea, it has been working out better for me to try to keep rolls going, now its just a matter of practice at least for that now lol


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 17, 2011)

glad to hear it, its a great technique, quite efficient


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 18, 2011)

hey, i'm curious how close do u usually set up ur slave pedal to your seat and the angle of it? Is it angled towards your foot or more parallel to the primary pedal on the kit?


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 18, 2011)

i have no real guideline as to how i set it. i set it close to my hi hat, and the spot it feels most comfortable to me. i try to keep it equal distance as my primary foot.

thats about the best i got for you in that regard


----------



## Andii (May 19, 2011)

Set your primary foot on the primary pedal and then put your other foot where it feels comfortable and natural. It usually looks like they're pointed inwards because that is how the ergonomics go.


----------



## Xenos0176 (May 19, 2011)

alright, i don't think i point mine that far inward so doing that may help me out


----------



## Epyon6 (Jul 13, 2011)

I know this is a month old thread but thought I could help out. Double bass is probably the most difficult thing for a drummer; Because its not like your hands where you rely mostly on your technique, you also have to rely on the quality and setup of your pedals. They are mechanisms if not set up properly can cause crappy technique and learning double bass. Depending on your genre you play,I play alotta Tech Death so around 220 to 250 bpm is common for me so i need to fly, thats why i choose the best made pedals in the world...Axis! Those pedals you got are single chain so they will lack stability especially in higher BPM playing. You should check out Iron Cobras and Pearl Eliminators, the demon drive pedals are an upgraded version of the Eliminators (on steroids) but for the price those pedals are awsome(they are like Pearls version of the Iron Cobras.) You can prob get em used for not much. Also as far as your technique maybe you wanna take a video of what your technique is from your throne height to your pedals. Might be able to help you correct it if you are off a little bit. Heres vids for endurance and stamina....this guy is a drum god.




Good luck bro if you got anymore questions message me ill do what I can to help.


----------



## Xenos0176 (Jul 17, 2011)

this looks like it could be very useful practice and hopefully i will be able to get around to making a video on how i sit at my kit with my pedals soon, i just need a rainy day to remember to do so


----------



## Xenos0176 (Sep 27, 2011)

i know this thread is old butttt i just wanted to say that i got a pearl demon drive earlier this week and i am one happy drummer


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 28, 2011)

good choice my friend, ii'm still shopping around for mine


----------



## muaddib09 (Sep 29, 2011)

Your thigh may be hurting because of sit height. This is going to sound like a weird suggestion,but if you have a gym membership there is a machine that most gyms have. Not sure what it is actually called, But I call it the slut machine. It is the machine that you sit in and there are pads that are against your thighs. Its like aduction or something like that. This will strengthen the inside and outside parts of your thighs that you use a lot in db drumming. You would want to use light weight and do it a lot, as opposed to heavy weight for only a few reps. I had a similar problem, my hip flexor kept getting a pinching feeling. 
Also with double bass technique I find that it does not matter if you play heel up or down. Certain situations call for different approaches. If I need a lot of power i put my heel down, but if i need speed I use heel up. Spring tension is just personal preference. Bonzo played on a old speed king and got crazy amounts of speed from that one pedal. Getting some better pedals may help. They are going to set up more consent then a lower end pedal will.


----------

