# Playing Jazz?



## piggins411 (Oct 1, 2011)

I wanted to learn to get good at improvising in a jazz style (sorry I know that's vague). Besides obviously being comfortable with the fretboard, what are some other ways to start the process?


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## Solodini (Oct 1, 2011)

Think about what notes you are playing while you play. Start by just breaking down riffs and melodies you know and working out what their notes are. Transpose them to different octaves, different keys, displace individual notes and this will train your to where notes are, how they link. 

Then start playing things off the cuff and naming notes as you do. Obviously this will be slow as you're learning and it'll be difficult to name notes with semiquavers at 175bpm. Note choice is the important thing here, not speed. Same applies to jazz. It's what notes you play, not how many you play.

Then build simple chord tracks and play things over them. Even just one note per bar is good. Listen to how the notes you play interact with the chord. Remember these things. Good jazz players know what notes work with what chords and which notes link well together. Combine phrasing with this. Someone posted some videos by a bassist who learned from Gary Willis and the lesson on phrasing was brilliant. Tasteful phrasing to allow each statement to sink in is important.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2011)

I think what you should do first is find what kind of Jazz you're interested in playing, as with different types of Rock there are various differences in tonality, note choice, phrasing, etc. that come with the different permutations of Jazz music. Are you more of a Fusion guy, or does Bebop interest you the most? Are you looking to comp some Smooth Jazz, or looking to experiment with some Afro-Cuban styles? It's okay to like them all, but Jazz isn't "just jazz" it's full of different voicings and styles. 

I think you should sit down with some Jazz albums across the spectrum and see what tickles your fancy the best. Once you find "Your Jazz", immerse yourself with the music of the leaders in the genera. If you listen close, you'll start to see how that music works, and better be able to improvise with the patterns as they unfold. 

There's also tons of instructional material out there, both in the form of Theory Based and Performance Based applications.


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## piggins411 (Oct 1, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think what you should do first is find what kind of Jazz you're interested in playing, as with different types of Rock there are various differences in tonality, note choice, phrasing, etc. that come with the different permutations of Jazz music. Are you more of a Fusion guy, or does Bebop interest you the most? Are you looking to comp some Smooth Jazz, or looking to experiment with some Afro-Cuban styles? It's okay to like them all, but Jazz isn't "just jazz" it's full of different voicings and styles.
> 
> I think you should sit down with some Jazz albums across the spectrum and see what tickles your fancy the best. Once you find "Your Jazz", immerse yourself with the music of the leaders in the genera. If you listen close, you'll start to see how that music works, and better be able to improvise with the patterns as they unfold.
> 
> There's also tons of instructional material out there, both in the form of Theory Based and Performance Based applications.




Got any albums I could start with? I haven't heard much in general. More jazz-influenced playing really. But I do know that I really enjoy Stanley Jordan


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2011)

piggins411 said:


> Got any albums I could start with? I haven't heard much in general. More jazz-influenced playing really. But I do know that I really enjoy Stanley Jordan



I'm FAR from a Jazz expert, as I was in the exact same place as you a year or two ago. 

For Fusion:
Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth, Scott Henderson, and/or Bill Frisell

For Bebop:
Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, and/or Kenny Burrell

For Smooth:
George Benson and to an extent Lee Ritenour

For Bossa Nova:
Baden Powell or Antonio Jobim

That should get you started. Remember though, that a lot of those guys have messed with more than one kind of Jazz. 

For the record, I'd consider Stanley Jordan as more of a Fusion pianist, than a guitarist.


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## celticelk (Oct 1, 2011)

piggins411 said:


> Got any albums I could start with? I haven't heard much in general. More jazz-influenced playing really. But I do know that I really enjoy Stanley Jordan



Google for any major music publication's list of the top 10/20/50/whatever jazz records of all time. There's not all that much difference between those lists, and if you really want to understand the genre, you're best off starting with the recognized classics. They're also things that you're likely to find at your local public library, so it's essentially free to educate yourself.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2011)

celticelk said:


> They're also things that you're likely to find at your local public library, so it's essentially free to educate yourself.



This. 

A lot of my favorite Jazz albums I first heard thank to the local library. They tend to stock a lot of the classics and tons of really great compilations. 

Also, this site is awesome: Jazz Guitar Online: Free Online Jazz Guitar Lessons, Tabs, Chords, Guitar Chord Charts & Guitar Tuner.. I love their newsletter.


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## celticelk (Oct 1, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For Fusion:
> Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth, Scott Henderson, and/or Bill Frisell



One of these things is *seriously* not like the others. Anybody coming to Frisell's work looking for Gambale/Holdsworth shred fusion is going to be very disappointed. For my money, Bill's more interesting than any of those guys anyway, but YMMV.

For jazz guitarists specifically, I would add to Max's recommendations: Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, Grant Green, Jim Hall, Sonny Sharrock, John Scofield, David Fiuczynski, Jean-Paul Bourelly, and Vernon Reid.


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## Solodini (Oct 1, 2011)

Al Di Meola is pretty easy for guitarists to get into. That links in with Chick Corea. I'm rubbish with jazz classifications, I'm afraid. 

Kurt Rosenwinkel is pretty cool. 

For gypsy jazz, the obvious suggestion is Django Reinhardt/ one of his descendants. 

For non-guitarists, there are the classics such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane and their ilk.

Also, John McLaughlin can be fun.


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## JPMike (Oct 1, 2011)

Also, for more of a Sax sound, listen to Steps Ahead. Braker's work there is amazing.

Wes Montgomery's first album, Four on Six, ultimate classic.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Oct 2, 2011)

Pick up The Real Book. It's a collection of jazz standards and should give you a lot to work with in terms of familiarizing yourself with the jazz canon and helping you in improvisation. On the subject of improvisation, I like to think of it as a purely compositional exercise. There is nothing elusive about improv, you just work with a pre-established melody. This means either embellishing the melody or creating a counter-melody. Here are a couple of videos that I think are germane to this topic:



Lead sheet for the next video: http://www.mypianoriffs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Autumn-Leaves-Leadsheet.jpg




And there are more videos from the same guy that continue to walk through Autumn Leaves. I wish he would go a little faster and talk more on the harmonic ideas rather than talk about frets the entire time (or even just post a transcription and explain some larger concepts - as it is, the important stuff is obscured by trying to communicate the individual notes), but oh well, it's nice that he breaks it down.

If you're watching these videos and scratching your head, you'll likely need to learn your theory. There's nothing really difficult about that, either: most of this stuff is basic diatonic harmony. You absolutely need to know your chords if you're playing jazz, particularly on the guitar.


And get into fucking bebop.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 2, 2011)

Allan Holdsworth


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## TimothyLeary (Oct 2, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> And there are more videos from the same guy that continue to walk through Autumn Leaves. I wish he would go a little faster and talk more on the harmonic ideas rather than talk about frets the entire time (or even just post a transcription and explain some larger concepts - as it is, the important stuff is obscured by trying to communicate the individual notes), but oh well, it's nice that he breaks it down.



Exactely. Never understood why they focus on telling fret by fret instead of explain the big picture.


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## StratoJazz (Oct 2, 2011)

SW's post with the Hal Galper video is exactly what i would have talked about. Try to create or transcribe licks that have inner guide tone harmonies. They key to playing jazz well is to be able to outline the chord changes when you solo. No need for a bass player, piano, or other guitar player. Just you, and your guitar. As long as you land a chord tone or upper extension triad on beat 1 or 3. Your good.

Really, what makes it different from Rock, Metal, Blues, and Pop is that in those styles you play more horizontally. Think about it, you play the A minor pentatonic scale over an A minor blues or a C blues(no 7th chords). Jazz, you play more to the chords, or to where the chords are going to resolve to, which is vertical playing.

WATCH THAT VIDEO AGAIN NOW IF YOU DIDN'T THE FIRST TIME!! Seriously, it's good for you.

As far as learning tunes goes, pick some tunes you like, learn the changes, then the melody. Then once you have 20 tunes or so, go back, and put the changes in all 12 keys and then the melody. Spend as much time as you need at first so you really absorb and have a firm grasp on the form, changes, and melody over the tune.

For technique, find some way to be able to play larger intervals(4ths and above) quickly. I usually will hybrid-pick the more intervalic melodies like Freedom Jazz Dance, or the wacky areas in Donna Lee and Confirmation using hybrid.

Remember, WATCH THAT VIDEO, and take it easy man. Message me if you've got some questions or if i typed something that confused you.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 3, 2011)

A little bit OT but I would love to see a (good) shred rendition of 'Giant Steps'.


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## celticelk (Oct 3, 2011)

All_¥our_Bass;2688185 said:


> A little bit OT but I would love to see a (good) shred rendition of 'Giant Steps'.



Jennifer Batten did a brief version on her debut record, but I haven't heard of any others.


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## TimothyLeary (Oct 3, 2011)

a lot of people(me included) ask about notes and scales when they are learning to play jazz, but I don't see as many asking about the rhythm. So how can we make a melody, for instance, only playing chord tones, more jazz just by altering the rhythm? with triplets? swing?


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## Solodini (Oct 3, 2011)

StratoJazz said:


> As far as learning tunes goes, pick some tunes you like, learn the changes, then the melody. Then once you have 20 tunes or so, go back, and put the changes in all 12 keys and then the melody. Spend as much time as you need at first so you really absorb and have a firm grasp on the form, changes, and melody over the changes.



But don't just shift it up or down by x amount of frets as a shape: keys are notes, not shapes. You won't learn anything about the music by just displacing a shape.


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## Solodini (Oct 3, 2011)

Rhythmically, I'd say smoothness is important. Use up-beats (anacrusiseseseseses) to lead in to the first beat of the bar, rather than playing HARD sof soft. That's kinda more inflection that rhythm but it affects rhythm. 

Jazz largely seems to be a motion and development between linked ideas, rather than doing one thing then something completely separate. Rhythmic fluidity is important.


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## Dead Undead (Oct 3, 2011)

Solodini said:


> Jazz largely seems to be a motion and development between linked ideas, rather than doing one thing then something completely separate. Rhythmic fluidity is important.



QFT. That sort of seamlessness is key. 

Also, when you listen to jazz (and most other kinds of music, but jazz especially), listen to it like it's a conversation.

I found this one is real easy to get into like that. It's more funk, but the same applies.


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## KingAenarion (Oct 4, 2011)

I feel that the best way to learn to improvise well... is to do it lots. 

and lots...


and lots...



until it becomes just a part of the way you play. Obviously knowing your shit and scales helps, but learning to feel the phrasing and play in the pocket is just as important. This is why I teach my students right from the getgo about improvisation. Starting with rhythmic improv and moving from there.


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## StratoJazz (Oct 4, 2011)

Solodini said:


> But don't just shift it up or down by x amount of frets as a shape: keys are notes, not shapes. You won't learn anything about the music by just displacing a shape.



Good point, it's good to transpose by fourths, tritones, and fifths at first to eliminate the "well lets just shift this shit down a fret" philosophy.


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## thraxil (Oct 4, 2011)

Alex Skolnick's Rock House DVD is a pretty good introduction. He starts at the level of basic swing rhythm and 12-bar blues as a foundation and goes from there up to some fairly advanced stuff. 

Here's a small sample:


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## Solodini (Oct 5, 2011)

God, that extract was boring. Nothing against you, Thraxil, the rest of the DVD could be brilliant but that was not a good extract for them to choose for promotion.


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## thraxil (Oct 5, 2011)

Oh, totally. Alex Skolnick is an amazing guitar player and the material covered in the DVDs is solid and well-structured, but the man is not an exciting, charismatic speaker. It's not an instructional video that you sit down and watch for entertainment.


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## JPMike (Oct 5, 2011)

I am actually going to get that Skolnik DvD, it's really promising for rock players going over to jazz as Skolnik himself.


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