# How far do you think djent will evolve?



## Jahka (Mar 10, 2015)

I often wonder about the future of contemporary music. I can totally see djent ( i know its a sound, not a genre, but bare with me) changing its textures around to create a ton of unheard shit, however, I can't think of anything definite. How do you think djent will evolve (tone, groove, sonic, and melodic - wise)???


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 10, 2015)

I kinda hope all music evolves back toward having massive bands like Earth Wind & Fire, KC & the Sunshine Band or Rose Royce... Every metal band should just have a full orchestra.


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## Maverick187 (Mar 11, 2015)

Im starting to feel like the whole "Djent" thing is starting to get real stale. Considering the complexity and talent of a lot of the guys playing that kind of style, I see it definitely branching into some real different territory, more than likely moving away from metal per se and branching into some more contemporary styles maybe?


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## kamello (Mar 11, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I kinda hope all music evolves back toward having massive bands like Earth Wind & Fire, KC & the Sunshine Band or Rose Royce... Every metal band should just have a full orchestra.




Im pretty sure that's the thing that David Maxim Micic want the most in the world 



answering the OP; seeing djent as technique and style of riffin definitely expands the contexts where it can be found.
Again; Micic IMO serves as a perfect example of this; djent is an element of his sound but it's not his ONLY sound


edit:

Some people say they think the genre has born dead or won't evolve, but IMO, comparing...


this


to this


or this (pun unintended )



is a perfect example of how the ''genre'' (or as I prefer; a way of aproaching riffin, and to some extent, composition) can be molded into vastly different contexts


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 11, 2015)

kamello said:


> Im pretty sure that's the thing that David Maxim Micic want the most in the world
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for showin' me that one... That's good shit.


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## Hollowway (Mar 11, 2015)

Jahka said:


> ( i know its a sound, not a genre, but bare with me)



I will keep my clothes ON, thankyouverymuch. Damned prevert!


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## chopeth (Mar 11, 2015)

New djent



Anyway, who gives a f*ck?


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## Necris (Mar 11, 2015)

I don't think it will.


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## Hachetjoel (Mar 11, 2015)

Necris said:


> I don't think it will.



/thread.


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## Andromalia (Mar 11, 2015)

It's already going down, it's not reaching the mainstream public and is confined in relatively small circles.


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## Jahka (Mar 11, 2015)

Necris said:


> I don't think it will.



Yea I could see it branching out into other styles, but idk about the orchestra thing. As much as I love orchestral music (being a cello player), orchestras and metal can easily be somewhat phony, I hate to sound like Hold Caulfield. As for you Necris, why do you think it will halt in its evolution, considering how it's gone so far from Meshuggah.


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## Jahka (Mar 11, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> It's already going down, it's not reaching the mainstream public and is confined in relatively small circles.



That doen't necessarily mean that it will die, it just means that labels will stop pushing bands to sound like generic djent (so they could sound like generic "insert genre here"). Artists will always pursue their wanted sound despite the money... I would hope.


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## Alice AKW (Mar 11, 2015)

Personally I feel like a lot of the modern "Djent" bands are really paving their ways down their own paths, if we were to say, take a look at some of my favorite artists and compare them.

Periphery: Often melding pop influenced song structures with jazz influenced leads and meshuggah influenced rhythms.

David Maxim Micic: A much more compositional approach, having very little focus on the guitar and using it more as a single piece of his compositions, blending various instrumentations and influences.

Monuments: Much more centered on "The Groove", and in honesty I think very few people can write in the ways that John Browne does, and especially on the latest album, the vocals have very prominent and unique in both timbre and delivery.

Tesseract: Floating much more on the Pink Floyd side of things, favoring very spacey and reverb/delay laden sounds with very subtle but effective syncopation and a very pretty layered sound to the vocals. They do have their riffy moments though.

Vildhjarta: Focused more on the atmosphere of discord and evil, if I had to give it a word. Not horribly technical guitar work usually but a very apparent lack of clean vocals, only appearing in a baritone register when they do. Lots of dissonance, droning low F's, and a grating, grinding guitar tone that really just kinda works for them.

The Heavy Metal Ninjas: Neoclassical influenced composition with a very Jason Becker and Vai influenced cadence to the lead guitars, quite a lot of melody and interesting chord progressions.

Just like every genre out there, "Djent" has its dime a dozen bands, but I don't feel like those should discredit the above mentioned bands. They all have a very distinct style and a different approach to performance, producion, and songwriting, and its that freedom of artistic choice and expression that embodies progressive music to me, and I love it.


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## OmegaSlayer (Mar 11, 2015)

Djent was born dead.
Other genres will eventually incorporate djent, not the other way.


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## Demiurge (Mar 11, 2015)

To put it diplomatically, I believe that there is perhaps an overestimation by some of the impact of or innovation contained within certain genres. Beyond that, said overestimation is both simultaneously unappealing and consistent with a level of hubris that, considered together, is possibly deleterious to the prospect of survival or further innovation.


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## Fiction (Mar 11, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Djent was born dead.
> Other genres will eventually incorporate djent, not the other way.



Well for something that was born dead it sure is still kicking on 10 years later.


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## Abaddon9112 (Mar 11, 2015)

I think the novelty of djent has passed and the rapid explosion from, say, 2009-present will slow down. 

This was the first metal genre that really was entirely born (other than Meshuggah who arguably could count) on the post 2000s internet. It's always been pretty niche and meme-ish. The sound melded into all kind of styles and changed a lot of how people think of instruments, gear, and sounds. 

That's about all I can really say of it lol. Never quite got into the Meshuggah-meets-generic metalcore sound of a lot of bands. I wouldn't mourn the decline of djent as a genre too much, but nothing ever totally dies in music. It is what it is.


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 11, 2015)

Not really far, djent is a dead-end.


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## The Mirror (Mar 11, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I kinda hope all music evolves back toward having massive bands like Earth Wind & Fire, KC & the Sunshine Band or Rose Royce... Every metal band should just have a full orchestra.



Well. We already got that, though not in the genre that most of the guys here might hear.

Nightwish are getting into somewhat ridiculous spaces since Once with every record costing over half a million bucks for full orchestration from the god damn London Symphony Orchestra. I love it...


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## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 11, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Djent was born dead.
> Other genres will eventually incorporate djent, not the other way.



If so, how come loads of people tag everything that incorporates djentish sounds djent, despite other aspects of sound?
I do not completely disagree with you, but if you would be right, no one would use the word 'djent' to classify a genre of music.

Was djent born dead? I'm not sure, as I would consider djent to be more of an 'artificial limb' you add to an entity rather than entity itself (if you consider that the entity is genre and the limb is elements you incorporate, if you get what I mean)

All things aside - djent-related music is becoming pretty stale and I would love to hear something fresh that could be considered the next step of evolution... It really starts to fell like I've already heard anything...


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## Splenetic (Mar 11, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> It's already going down, it's not reaching the mainstream public and is confined in relatively small circles.



So you're saying it's.....djevolving? 

Shit, you guys better stage a djevolution....


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## jonsick (Mar 11, 2015)

While the players playing djent may be quite talented, to me it is dead boring as a musical genre. It offers little more as a bastion of safe haven for players chronically lacking talent, buy 15 string guitars and perpetrating the mantra of "polyrhythms or die". Just in the same way that grunge entrapped scores of players with far less talent who bought into the whole three chord wonder ideal and never really improved.

To me it's a genre that is welcoming to, frankly, poor players but also excusing them from actually improving.

[flame suit on]


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## bostjan (Mar 11, 2015)

Genres don't evolve. They either spawn new genres or mate with other old genres to create hybrids.

For example: How far did "disco" evolve? It didn't. But it cross-bred with spoken word to make hip-hop.

Another example: How far did "big band swing" evolve? It didn't. It went to the wayside when Rock'n'Roll blasted off, but eventually Rock'n'Roll split into Rockabilly, Hard Rock, Garage Rock, Surf Rock, etc. Garage Rock and Hard Rock had a baby called Punk Rock that blended with Big Band Swing to make Ska music. In fact, Rock'n'Roll's spawn of Rockabilly also blended with Big Band Swing, and that's how Brian Setzer was born. And don't believe the people who tell you Rock'n'Roll was something entirely new - it was a child of the Electric Blues (the louder, raunchier spawn of traditional blues) and Cat Music (the louder, raunchier spawn of country).

So djent will continue to be djent. Artists considered djent will push the envelope along the lines of djent until they find a new direction, then they won't be djent anymore. Maybe djent will hybridize with comedy metal (oh, wait, it already has) or metalcore (wouldn't it be funny if there was such a thing as "djentcore" &#8230; oh, wait)&#8230;

To be honest, I don't really know where the line exists between djent and mathmetal. I mean, Meshuggah, although being most influential in the mathmetal/djent scene, was not the only band to start doing polyrhythms and blending elements of experimental jazz with deathmetal. If you've known me long enough, you'll know that I was a big fan of Estradasphere, who, independent of Meshuggah, took klesmer, bluegrass, death metal, big band, and 8-bit and threw them all into a blender.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 11, 2015)

- djevolve 

Also, ska existed in Jamaica far before the stuff we have here like Less Than Jake. I'm not sure if there's a distinction between those two forms of ska, but all they actually did was take what the Jamaicans were already doing and add punk rock style riffs and big band horns rather than the more serious sounding horns you usually hear in reggae/ska/rocksteady.

Ska was actually one of the first steps in the development of the genre now known as reggae (as it exists there--here we tend to make anything with things syncopated on the off beat "reggae" ignoring that ska also is and they don't sound alike...)

Not an attempt at being argumentative... Rather, I think it actually further demonstrates your point.


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## asher (Mar 11, 2015)

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> So you're saying it.....djevolving?
> 
> Shit, you guys better stage a djevolution....


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## Alice AKW (Mar 11, 2015)

Djeus Ex Machina.


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## bostjan (Mar 11, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> - djevolve
> 
> Also, ska existed in Jamaica far before the stuff we have here like Less Than Jake. I'm not sure if there's a distinction between those two forms of ska, but all they actually did was take what the Jamaicans were already doing and add punk rock style riffs and big band horns rather than the more serious sounding horns you usually hear in reggae/ska/rocksteady.
> 
> ...



No worries. I'm not an expert on the origins from ska, so I should have chosen a better example, or better yet, researched the genre before using the term. Now I know a little more about it.


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## wat (Mar 11, 2015)

It's just gonna go away when the fad blows over


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## tedtan (Mar 11, 2015)

Necris said:


> I don't think it will.





Andromalia said:


> It's already going down, it's not reaching the mainstream public and is confined in relatively small circles.


 


OmegaSlayer said:


> Other genres will eventually incorporate djent, not the other way.


 
I have to agree with the above comments. As a genre, djent is on the way out. In 5 or 10 years, we'll think of it the same way we think of hair metal, grunge, pop punk or nu metal today. But as a technique, it will be incorporated into other genres, becoming a standard technique used across most metal subgenres. And I think the focus on poly rhythms will have been played out too, so newer metal will likely go back to a more straight 4/4 based rhythmic focus.


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## Vhyle (Mar 11, 2015)

Djent came along pretty quickly, but it also became stale pretty quickly. If it were to evolve, it would require some pretty drastic changes. The full orchestra idea - that might be kinda cool. But then again I'm a big fan of orchestra elements in metal anyway, so I may be biased.

Using djent as a tool rather than a genre is honestly the much better approach, and would likely preserve it far better (example: Disperse - Living Mirrors). We all know how oversaturated it is a genre (djenre?). Tone it back a bit (pun intended) and use it as a tool instead.

Plus, Means End just called it quits - and they were refreshing and different. The genre is surely doomed now with them out of the picture.


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## bostjan (Mar 11, 2015)

tedtan said:


> And I think the focus on poly rhythms will have been played out too, so newer metal will likely go back to a more straight 4/4 based rhythmic focus.



Nah, metal embraced odd times and syncopation long before Meshuggah. I'd dare say that polyrhythms were not unique to mathmetal bands at the time they became a "thing."

So 4/4 time will never become the only time signature employed in new metal music.

As far as it being the most common time signature used in metal, well, that it always has been anyway, so I have to assume that isn't what you were thinking.


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## asher (Mar 11, 2015)

Maybe he was talking about metal having its grunge moment?


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## bloc (Mar 11, 2015)

Djent is already dying imo. I had a feeling that it would not last too long when it started to blow up a few years ago. That is, how much can you warp a rhythm until people start yawning? 

Now in order to make it interesting it is being mixed with other genres, resulting in terrible music.


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## tedtan (Mar 11, 2015)

What I'm saying is that these things run in cycles, so you'll have a genre become popular for a while and then it is replaced by something different. And if the first genre focused on certain elements (e.g., polyrhythms) then the second genre will eschew those elements in favor of their own distinctive elements.

These cycle often go from a more technical approach to a more raw/emotional/street approach. We saw this with big production rock bands in the 70's (slick and technical) -> punk (raw) -> hair metal (slick and technical) - > grunge/nu-metal (raw) -> djent - (slick and technical) -> next "big" thing, which, if you've followed along, you'll see it's time for something raw rather than another slick and technical. If it didn't work this way, how could a new genre tout itself as the new, improved thing? (Forget, for the moment, that it's not all that new. The kids of today haven't heard the groups that influenced this next big thing yet, so for them, it is new, even if it is fairly derivative).


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 11, 2015)

What if they actually start doing good choreography like the Jackson 5 instead of the weird crabwalk dances... That'd be cool too.


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## bostjan (Mar 11, 2015)

tedtan said:


> What I'm saying is that these things run in cycles, so you'll have a genre become popular for a while and then it is replaced by something different. And if the first genre focused on certain elements (e.g., polyrhythms) then the second genre will eschew those elements in favor of their own distinctive elements.
> 
> These cycle often go from a more technical approach to a more raw/emotional/street approach. We saw this with big production rock bands in the 70's (slick and technical) -> punk (raw) -> hair metal (slick and technical) - > grunge/nu-metal (raw) -> djent - (slick and technical) -> next "big" thing, which, if you've followed along, you'll see it's time for something raw rather than another slick and technical. If it didn't work this way, how could a new genre tout itself as the new, improved thing? (Forget, for the moment, that it's not all that new. The kids of today haven't heard the groups that influenced this next big thing yet, so for them, it is new, even if it is fairly derivative).



Hmm, okay. However, Djent never reached craze levels, like Punk, Hairmetal, or Grunge. Also, there were a lot of other things going on that you didn't list, and therefore the pattern might seem a bit cherry-picked.

While grunge was in full swing, you also had Dream Theater's Awake, also bands like Porcupine Tree, Ayeron, Mr. Bungle, Opeth, and Symphony X getting very active. Love them or hate them, Tool became quite popular as well during this period, and you have to admit that their level of technicality is far beyond Nirvana, Pearl Jam, or Stone Temple Pilots. I guess what I'm trying to say is that during the Punk movement, progressive rock gained a lot of momentum as well, and when grunge was king of the radio, progressive metal gained a lot of momentum. Djent is not a mainstream movement, but a counter-culture, happening in a time when the best selling singles were along the lines of "My Humps" by Black Eyed Peas. Even focusing on rock, this time period is heavily laden with garage rockers like the Black Keys and Kings of Leon, whose music shies away from technicality or polished performances in favour of raw mixes.


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## simonXsludge (Mar 11, 2015)

I feel like the issue with Djent (and that goes for modern Metalcore as well) is, that it seems to feed mostly from within itself. Yeah, sure, most Djent kids kinda dig Meshuggah, other kinda dig Dream Theater, but most of all the vast majority of young bands really sound like they have little to no outside Djent/modern Metalcore influences. 

If anything, popular mainstream music styles are being incorporated, rather than more niche and outside of the box music - which _could_ give Djent as a genre a little more relevance and substance. This will ultimately kill the "genre", with few exceptions.


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## redstone (Mar 11, 2015)

Bass-metal ?


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## tedtan (Mar 11, 2015)

bostjan said:


> Hmm, okay. However, Djent never reached craze levels, like Punk, Hairmetal, or Grunge. Also, there were a lot of other things going on that you didn't list, and therefore the pattern might seem a bit cherry-picked.



No, but outside of the record company controlled mainstream music, I doubt we'll ever see anything reach those levels of popularity again. The widespread availability of music on the internet pretty much assures us of that, but when you combine it with the additional entertainment options available today (including FaceBook, Twitter, etc.), it seems pretty obvious.




bostjan said:


> While grunge was in full swing, you also had Dream Theater's Awake, also bands like Porcupine Tree, Ayeron, Mr. Bungle, Opeth, and Symphony X getting very active. Love them or hate them, Tool became quite popular as well during this period, and you have to admit that their level of technicality is far beyond Nirvana, Pearl Jam, or Stone Temple Pilots. I guess what I'm trying to say is that during the Punk movement, progressive rock gained a lot of momentum as well, and when grunge was king of the radio, progressive metal gained a lot of momentum. Djent is not a mainstream movement, but a counter-culture, happening in a time when the best selling singles were along the lines of "My Humps" by Black Eyed Peas. Even focusing on rock, this time period is heavily laden with garage rockers like the Black Keys and Kings of Leon, whose music shies away from technicality or polished performances in favour of raw mixes.



Of course; nothing happens in a vacuum! (Sorry to point out the obvious, but this is like trying to have a discussion with Explorer at this point ).

So yes, there are always multiple styles of music happening simultaneously; that's a given. And of course, polyrhythms will not magically disappear after the djent fad has passed. And there will continue to be various styles of music after djent has moved on. Hell, even djent itself won't disappear entirely - there will probably be reunion tours and such 20 years down the line. That's how this stuff typically works.

But this thread is about djent, not mainstream music. So that means, for the most part, some type of metal, whether discussing the genre or the technique, because I don't foresee the bluegrassers or classical guitarists starting to djent any time soon. 

So what I am trying to say, _in the context of this thread_, is that the next "popular" subgenre of metal music is likely to move away from the characteristics of djent in order to be its own thing. And given all the young people having a hard time finding jobs, the historical tendency for art to change in cycles, etc., I foresee a rawer, more emotional form of metal on the horizon because it reflects the human condition.

(And just to put it out there preemptively, it will not magically make other genres of metal disappear. It will only be the more popular, or at least one of the more popular, subgenres).


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## kamello (Mar 11, 2015)

redstone said:


> Bass-metal ?



DeKay here has been working on that one for quite a bit 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...slap-basses-progressive-bass-solos-depth.html



Vhyle said:


> Plus, Means End just called it quits - and they were refreshing and different. The genre is surely doomed now with them out of the picture.



fvck, I was quite interested in hearing new material from them 





anyways, edited a bit my first post, and +1000 to TedTan


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Mar 11, 2015)

I dont know where its going, but hopefully it goes the .... away. Too many dudes are falling over each other to sound the same. Good riddance to that shit.


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## Hallic (Mar 11, 2015)

Maybe some kind of Numetal-ish kind of genre? Elements from electronics music are likely to be predominant



even these have some rappy bits


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## Dr Perkinstien (Mar 11, 2015)

i wouldn't consider meshuggah djent. I love meshuggah but i kinda feel like djent has become really pretentious and stale like others have stated. When i first heard periphery from some friends before they put the cd out I loved it. But once you get past the wankyness of it there isn't really anything there to make me like it. Wouldn't complain if i heard djent at a party but its really not my cup of tea once i got past the novelty of it. Same with yngwie when you first hear it your blown away but 3 years later your like is that all he does.

That being said i do think there are a lot of valuable ideas in djent that will be incorporated into new styles.


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## bostjan (Mar 11, 2015)

tedtan said:


> Of course; nothing happens in a vacuum! (Sorry to point out the obvious, but this is like trying to have a discussion with Explorer at this point ).



Hey now! 

Seriously, though, I come off argumentative  a lot on here. I really don't intend to be that way, although it's no excuse.  I naturally tend to ramble  and spout out unpopular opinions, because I'm getting old.  Maybe I'd come off easier to take with more smileys. 



tedtan said:


> So what I am trying to say, _in the context of this thread_, is that the next "popular" subgenre of metal music is likely to move away from the characteristics of djent in order to be its own thing. And given all the young people having a hard time finding jobs, the historical tendency for art to change in cycles, etc., I foresee a rawer, more emotional form of metal on the horizon because it reflects the human condition.
> 
> (And just to put it out there preemptively, it will not magically make other genres of metal disappear. It will only be the more popular, or at least one of the more popular, subgenres).



I think the exposure of "djent" on this board is way more than it was in real life. A considerable number of metalheads still don't even know what djent even is, in a vague sense. So maybe it is possible to perceive cycles in the industry that other perceive differently, and maybe neither is wrong.

I would agree that "djent" is a generational thing, and that it grew rapidly. If I ask what is djent, probably a lot of people would say it's a subgenre of odd-time palm-muted chugging riffs, but if I ask for examples of bands in that genre, I'd get a list mostly of bands with members born in 1982-1988 who play ERGs with a high level of technical chops, much of which is actually more than just chugging palm muted odd-time riffs. 

Just days before everyone was talking about "djent," the flavour du jour was "-core." Mathcore, deathcore, metalcore, rapcore, doomcore, crunkcore, nintendocore, crabcore, corecore, caramelcore&#8230;same story, where no one could really define "-core," yet it seemed fast growing and people got overly annoyed by that. Instead of "palm mute" being the key component, it was "breakdowns." There were still some good bands that came of the movement(s). Before that, "Screamo." Honestly, it all blends together, not just for me, but for most people. Where does mathcore stop and djent begin? Where does screamo stop and metalcore begin?

Anyway, I'm sure I bore you with that. If your point is that the next wave of kids will contain a number who focus on the emotion of performance rather than the technique, I agree.



Dr. Perkinstein said:


> i wouldn't consider meshuggah djent.



That's part of my point, some people do, some people don't. Certainly Meshuggah influence is a cornerstone of the genre.


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## Duosphere (Mar 11, 2015)

Djent evolving?
I hope so....................into something good


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## molsoncanadian (Mar 11, 2015)

I'd be interested in hearing what people opinions are regarding their classification of what djent is.

I know it somewhat opens the gate for genre debates, but....

In my opinion, something is djent when....

- Tuned down to drop zxy, you know what I mean
- Bouncing along on 1 guitar string for 90% of the song
- A constant battery of poly rhythms, that don't really add to the flow of the song 
- If you could isolate the guitar tracks, run them 8 bit style and it sounds like dubstep (.... I hate electronic music)
- A guitar tone that sounds like wet farts
- A guitar tone that is gated so tight, that it would be impossible for said guitarist to play without
- Breakdowns every couple of bars
- Electronic music intro's
- Electronic elements during the whole duration of the song
- Brutal vocals followed by what sounds like a 10 year old singing the chorus
- Singing about space

I know we could apply this list to a number of other genres and say "Well how do you not like x, but you like y."

Bottom line, it seems that the elements of djent music are well defined in a sense, so well defined that they are easily replicated (as we all know)

I hope djent crashes and burns forever

It started out as something interesting, but I feel it's so overdone that I feel like vomiting every time I hear it.


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## molsoncanadian (Mar 11, 2015)

Sorry, I should add

- Having multiple guitarists "layering"
Player a) You play the root
Player b) You play the third
Player c) You play the fifth!

Your not layering you buttholes! You've effectively taken 1 cool riff and dissected it into 3 parts. Which is probably best because most djent enthusiasts take it _1 string at a time. _

- Also, needlessly incorporating a whole shit load of synth work so that "no man, we dont djent, were progressive!" Adding a violin to your song didnt make you progressive. Sorry guys.

- The drummer CONSTANTLY playing his ass off. Not everyone is guilty of this, but sit in the pocket. Keep your hands still for 10 seconds.

- When the bass player, the guitarist, and the bass drum of the kit are glued together. I actually like this, when done tastefully. But a whole song??

- Oh, and the same effing axe fx patch, guys. Switch it up.

I guess these posts from me may have come across as an excuse to bash djent, but given the rather apparent framework, that subjectively of course, defines djent, I fail to see how it could evolve much. 

And I still hope it burns in a fire forever


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## PlumbTheDerps (Mar 11, 2015)

Necris said:


> I don't think it will.



Remember pocket bandana-toting, change-picking-up metalcore kiddies going to Throwdown shows a decade ago, and how that scene/vibe/style totally disappeared over the course of about three years? That's what's going to happen to djent.


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## Joose (Mar 11, 2015)

I suppose it all depends on how many djent bands are willing to think outside of the box and not just do what is working for other bands at the time.

I think Periphery's Juggernaut is the absolute definition of "doing it right".


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## KBSmusic (Mar 11, 2015)

kamello said:


> ...
> or this (pun unintended )
> 
> ...




Pretty much every time I listen to this, around the 4:40 mark where the vocals come in then it's quite literally like an explosion of music... gives me shivers - like every time. 

Big fan of all three bands you mentioned 

That being said, I feel like there has been a lot of growth in the 'genre' if one could call it one. Lots of bands have been lumped into that classification *when it is not the main focus of the music*. Bands like Skyharbor are a perfect example. Methinks instead of focusing on what defines a band as 'djent', we should bring better genre names to the table which better describe some of the fantastic stuff coming out.

That's the funny point - most of us wouldn't consider djent a genre, but we can refer to it as such to convey a message about the bands lumped into that 'genre'. We should probably stop that  Just my two cents.


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 11, 2015)

What bugs me is when people refer to djent as the "new progressive metal" thing. First, it's not progressive at all, if anything, it's recessive metal. It doesn't mean that there is no good djent, there are plenty awesome djent bands, but this trend has nowhere to go from now on. It's not like death and black metal, which, for example, are fertile grounds for novelty and progressiveness. There is just so many things you can do when your music's main focus is rhythmic syncopation, and disregards (for the most part) melody or progression.


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## KFW (Mar 11, 2015)

For what it's worth, here is what I think happens. 

Stuff that gets popular is stuff that seems fresh. Pre-internet, it was different. There were bands that had to make it to mainstream outlets for most people (even people listening to more underground "alternative" styles) to catch on. The underground was REALLY underground. If you weren't signed, you were local. For the most part. 

I think that stuff that is going to become fresh is the stuff that is more of a rarity. That's why djent became popular--an entire bizarre genre created by bedroom players that all of a sudden could make a recording that sounds like a professional album because of recording technology. Now, you can make a video look like a professional video with just a $400 Canon T2i. All of a sudden people were making stuff that you had never heard before, and home recordings that sounded this good were completely unheard of. 

That time has came and went, and I think what's becoming more appreciated is minimalist acoustic/raw stuff that is extremely technical and live. The stuff that the majority of people can't do, so they will be impressed by it.

Nu-metal won't come back, and neither will simplistic and raw 4/4 type of metal. Because there is already so much of that, that there is no way it can be fresh and catch people's attention. My opinion of course.

And I think the common thread in all music that will be popular in the future--good songwriting. You can't fake it or copy it. Most genres will stick around and change to a degree, but I think the people that determine which styles and textures become popular are the ones that release well written and catchy songs.


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## Vhyle (Mar 11, 2015)

^^^

I absolutely HATE it when those bands are labeled "progressive metal". Down to the core of the term, these bands are lightyears away from being "progressive metal".

EDIT: Ninja'd. The ^^^s are for Omega Cluster.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 12, 2015)

IMO, no matter how much we want to categorize the style, it's just a style of riffing. Djent isn't a category of music exclusively, how blues is different from pop. 

Metal incorporates shred, neoclassical, thrash, double-bass, or djent, in different mixes/varieties to taste. 

Djent, for its own sake, has revealed its potential. But it's just a method of riffing. Imagine having metalcore type breakdowns in every 4 bars - that would be comical wouldn't it? Similarly djent has enough potential to mock itself, and it has.

Overdoing it just ruins the embellishments it tries to create.


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## Zalbu (Mar 12, 2015)

It's just going to be the same as with every other fad. The people who actually make good and interesting music are going to be around for as long as possible and the people who rely on the duh-djent as a replacement for creativity and good songwriting aren't.

Alice AKW summed it up pretty well on the first page. The most popular "djent" bands, like Periphery, Tesseract, Monuments, Vildhjarta and so on all have their own personal spin on the music and only use the technique as a songwriting tool. Making djent just for the sake of making djent feels kinda like creating a genre based around sweep picking or tapping 

Heavy Metal Ninjas are a great example that you can still make djent that's fresh and exciting, provided that you're a good musician.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 12, 2015)

Isn't there going to be any djent band with face masks/make up? Or is there? hehe...


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## Alice AKW (Mar 12, 2015)

Jeesan said:


> Isn't there going to be any djent band with face masks/make up? Or is there? hehe...



I'm a furry and people seem to throw my music under the "djent" umbrella, does that count?


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## UnattendedGolfcart (Mar 12, 2015)

simonXsludge said:


> ...Most of all the vast majority of young bands really sound like they have little to no outside Djent/modern Metalcore influences.



I so completely agree with this. I'm part of a few Extended Range Guitarists groups on facebook, and every time anyone asks about looking for a band that doesn't djent, everyone just says the same djentcore bands over and over. Or when someone says "I want to hear an instrumental band that utilizes 7/8 strings that isn't Animals As Leaders" everyone still says "Animals As Leaders".

Djent bugs me in the fact that it seems like everyone who wants to djent has absolutely no idea how to do anything else.

By the time I was starting to get really into djent I just ended up getting into death metal instead. It's not even fun to goof around to play anymore for me; I like the main djenty bands like Periphery, Tesseract, and Vildhjarta, but that's about it. I'd rather listen to progressive and technical death metal, which actually makes me want to be a better guitarist, instead of hearing some dj0nt kids quote the New Age Bull.... Generator for four minutes over the same repeated open note.


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## bostjan (Mar 12, 2015)

I'll start a movement right here, called "Djon't". We'll see if it catches on and then finally answers the question of "what's the next bandwaggon for metal kids?"

To be a part of this sub-sub-genre, you must employ at least three of the following techniques:
Play a seven string guitar.
Post on sevenstring.org.
Refer to your music as "Djon't".
Headbang.
Regularly answer people's questions with "pfft" and/or flexing.

There, who's game?


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## asher (Mar 12, 2015)

bostjan said:


> I'll start a movement right here, called "Djon't". We'll see if it catches on and then finally answers the question of "what's the next bandwaggon for metal kids?"
> 
> To be a part of this sub-sub-genre, you must employ at least three of the following techniques:
> Play a seven string guitar.
> ...



Pffffft.



I cancel your post.


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## tedtan (Mar 12, 2015)

bostjan said:


> Hey now!
> 
> Seriously, though, I come off argumentative  a lot on here. I really don't intend to be that way, although it's no excuse.  I naturally tend to ramble  and spout out unpopular opinions, because I'm getting old.  Maybe I'd come off easier to take with more smileys.



Likewise. I try to use smilies so people get that I'm not being too serious, but I'm not sure that it always works out as intended.




bostjan said:


> I think the exposure of "djent" on this board is way more than it was in real life. A considerable number of metalheads still don't even know what djent even is, in a vague sense. So maybe it is possible to perceive cycles in the industry that other perceive differently, and maybe neither is wrong.


 
I agree. But these guys have been on the cover of guitar magazines and so forth, so their reach extends beyond just SSO, kind of like Dream Theater. They're not mainstream, but musicians tend to know who they are (at least metal musicians).




bostjan said:


> Just days before everyone was talking about "djent," the flavour du jour was "-core." Mathcore, deathcore, metalcore, rapcore, doomcore, crunkcore, nintendocore, crabcore, corecore, caramelcoresame story, where no one could really define "-core," yet it seemed fast growing and people got overly annoyed by that. Instead of "palm mute" being the key component, it was "breakdowns." There were still some good bands that came of the movement(s). Before that, "Screamo." Honestly, it all blends together, not just for me, but for most people. Where does mathcore stop and djent begin? Where does screamo stop and metalcore begin?.



Please don't remind me. I played too many shows with crabcore, scream, etc. bands and could never even tell what kind of band they were supposed to be unless they had a specific look like the crab stance or the scream makeup.




bostjan said:


> Anyway, I'm sure I bore you with that. If your point is that the next wave of kids will contain a number who focus on the emotion of performance rather than the technique, I agree.



It was that plus that the new genre du jour will probably eschew polyrhythms simply because they are so associated with djent.


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## Defi (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm sure someone's beat me to the punch but all I thought when I read the title was "Don't you mean devolve?"


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## QuantumCybin (Mar 12, 2015)

It can't evolve until you use a thunderstone on it...


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## DarkWolfXV (Mar 12, 2015)

You're late 3 or maybe 4 years. Djent is over. It's all about the nu-nu metal now. But heavy music in general is dying, all that remains is it's rotten carcass being dragged by some people hopelessly trying to resuscitate it.


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## bostjan (Mar 12, 2015)

DarkWolfXV said:


> You're late 3 or maybe 4 years. Djent is over. It's all about the nu-nu metal now. But heavy music in general is dying, all that remains is it's rotten carcass being dragged by some people hopelessly trying to resuscitate it.



Hmm. Can I modify your quote so that I can agree with it?  I don't know about nu-nu-metal becoming a thing. The rest I am rewording for the sake of being careful, but I agree to a large extent, sadly.

>>You're late 3 or maybe 4 years. Djent is declining. But heavy music in general is stagnating.<<


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## Thorerges (Mar 12, 2015)

Djent will progress just as thrash or any other subgenre will.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 12, 2015)

Do any djent bands wear corpse paint yet? 

More seriously, though I've heard some "darker" sounding stuff, but nothing that I think verges on black metal yet. That would be a cool change.


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## Alice AKW (Mar 12, 2015)

I tihnk the closest thing to that at the moment is Vildhjarta, their stuff is quite sinister.


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## Veldar (Mar 12, 2015)

I like the instrumental bands like Chimp Spanner that kept it away from really generic riffs for hardcore bro's.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Mar 12, 2015)

Not really a fan of "djent" other than a few choice songs by a few choice bands, and I would like to see it get looser. Less artificially tight rhythm and more loose heaviness a la sludge metal and just more atmosphere in general. (And atmosphere =/= spacey interludes, which are literally just annoying to me at this point.) 

I feel like you could be slower and more in the pocket with it and it would sound a little more interesting to me.


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## teamSKDM (Mar 12, 2015)

Honestly, Im usually into stuff like periphery or monuments, stuff thats so cleanly produced and precise and tight and lately ive been listening to alot of older bands like sepultura or pantera and just being blow away by them for some reason. just its so refreshing hearing that raw recording, and it just felt like people meant what they were saying or playing and idk im kind of ranting but damn. recently ive been listening to like code orange or twitching tongues which really remind me of the 90s era of metal in todays upcoming bands. I would love to see alot of bands resort to this, but with more complex compositional structures vs intro,verse,chorus,verse2,bridge,chorus,breakdowny thing to end it.

TLDR 90s metal was heavy as .... and im re realizing this, so id love to see more creative ways of accomplishing the same vibe and adding to that field.


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## metaljohn (Mar 12, 2015)

It's just a new fad.

Early 2000's had generic metalcore, 2005-2008 had deathcore, 2011-now is djent.


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 12, 2015)

To put it simply.

Djent is a pit [of inspiration], not a source [of inspiration].


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 13, 2015)

Would reaching into that pit to pull out inspiration not then make it a source all the same? 

Look at it this way:

You know how they say to never throw away any of your recordings... It's because of that weird phenomenon where you record something and the first time you hear it, maybe it doesn't align with what you were going for that day so you're just done with it. You toss it in the waste pile. But you DONT throw it away...

Later, your bored and don't really have any musical ideas but you decide, "I'm gonna just check out what I've done so far just for giggles..."

Suddenly one of your waste pile tracks come up but this time you're hearing it with previous expectations removed and you're immediately inspired to write more riffs and complete this beast.

Hell I've done that with drawings before... I've had points where I went 2 year and all I had drawn was the outline of something. Literally a silhouette and nothing more. Then 2 years later I see something in it and create something beautiful in one day.


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## redstone (Mar 13, 2015)

This is not even my final form


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 13, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Would reaching into that pit to pull out inspiration not then make it a source all the same?



You're arguing on my analogy, not the matter which my analogy pointed out. It's utterly wrong to do so, as you're not talking about djent anymore, but about a real-life pit from which you can draw potable water. My analogy wasn't about a real-life pit and water source. If you want, I can make you another analogy so you cannot interpret it wrongly. 

Djent is akin to a black hole, a gravity pit. You cannot take gravity away from a black hole in order to do something else with it, say, a star/planet/etc.

What I'm saying is that djent is not a fertile ground. What you can do with djent will always sound like djent, no matter the context in which you apply it. You can add electronic sounds, ambience, etc. and it will still sound djent. It cannot be used to create something else with it.

EDIT: I'm not saying that djent is fundamentally wrong or bad. I actually quite like it, if it's well done. However, the fact is still that: you cannot derive this style in order to create something totally else.


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## gunch (Mar 13, 2015)

Honestly honking on the lowest string gets really boring after awhile 

Vildhjarta are interesting because there's a certain dark and oppressive aesthetic that they go for in their music that the sound of their guitars is designed and tailored for 

All the rest of the Djent bands want to sing about space, singularities and new age mysticism shit 

I prefer bands that aren't as low but are still under that same "progressive metalcore" umbrela like Corelia, Haunted Shores (rip), Old VoM (rip) and Haarp Machine 

Polymeters and "technicality" are still inherent aspects but there's other chord voicings and playing techniques going on too 

Needs more fretless bass and sus2 chords breh 

TLDR I want more Sprial Architect/Cynic-Core


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## Narrillnezzurh (Mar 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> the fact is still that: you cannot derive this style in order to create something totally else.



Why not? What's so special about djent that it acts a creative black hole?


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## molsoncanadian (Mar 13, 2015)

teamSKDM said:


> Honestly, Im usually into stuff like periphery or monuments, stuff thats so cleanly produced and precise and tight and lately ive been listening to alot of older bands like sepultura or pantera and just being blow away by them for some reason. just its so refreshing hearing that raw recording, and it just felt like people meant what they were saying or playing and idk im kind of ranting but damn.



Man you said a mouth full. I probably sound like a grandpa here, but back then music had a message and an attitude about it. The sonic characteristics of that era.... god I miss. Thats why when Heritage from Opeth came out, it completely floored me. It was so refreshing to hear an organic recording, music that actually breathes, music actually played by humans FFS.

To further add to the point, the first time I heard slipknot it floored me. It sounded genuinely pissed off, and it sounded like they had a point to make. It was powerful. It was kind of evil in a cool way. Now when you hear "heavy" vocals, it seems like it's more of a technique than to send a message or imply a feeling. Almost like growling or screaming is nothing more than a per-requisite to fit into a category or genre. 

When I hear stuff from Periphery or monuments, it reminds me of the sound really old printers would make. Just so heavily stitched and gated. Those guys might as well just start triggering everything with midi, they have completely killed what music/playing guitar is about *IMO. *


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## crg123 (Mar 13, 2015)

*WARNING: Story time rant with Old man Dave
*
You know. The one thing that I always found funny now is what happened with the new progressive metal movement (djent). That's how it was originally born and where I was in my life in how I responded to modern music. To me it was the birth of a whole new way of approaching music as far as recording and producing your ideas.

So I've been a metal head since I was 12, listening to extreme/technical metal since I was 15, starting with Carcass, Atheist, and Death. Needless to say growing up I felt into a sense of my music is great everything around me at the time was shit music (a feeling still rampant in the metal world - we as metal heads seem to dwell in the negativity). I regret that now and am much more open to it. 

At the time I compared my music to what was going on at the time, nu metal and eventually metalcore as watered down music. I pretty much limited myself music created before 1995 as ridiculous as that now sounds. I'm now very open to most forms of music and even if I don't like it I still see the musical value in it (besides music that's not writing by the performer themselves, which I still have a big problem with)

Anyway, I'm living my life listening to all the music I typically do and wammm someone sends me a bulb demo. I think it was Froggin Bullfish or Chocolate Flobs. I was blown away at what this guy had created in his bedroom. It opened up a new era in music where you didn't need to sit in a studio to record an album. The creative possibilities were endless. 

As much as people like to limit what's happened in the past 5-8 years to "Meshuggah with whiny bitch vocals" as I've heard it called in the past. This is a very interesting occurrence in music, it really is an evolution of the music I didn't like so much (groove based, with pop influences) into the music I loved (technical, aggressive yet not tough guy-esque).

Hell I remember hearing Dan Tompkins singing Concealing the Fate Pt2. and thinking what in the .... is this? I even went so far as to call is "ambient space-core" to make fun of it. The odd rhythms, syncopation, the atmospheric approach, the powerful clean vocals; I ended up unexpectedly loving it. The amazing technical ability Tosin Abasi displayed on the first AAL album, inspiring me a life long 6 string player to bite the bullet and getting an 8 string to tinker with. The chaotic yet eerily beauty of the sounds on Vildhjarta's Masstaden still gives me chills. Look at how the Contortionist have evolved.

Not to say there weren't alot of negatives. I'm really beginning to hate how all the ideas have gotten regurgitated again and again, while the production gets more and more pristine, and less and less human sounding. I'm hoping what ever comes next regains ground in that respect. I want the grittiness back.

*TL;DR What ever the hell you think about it / want to call it. Djent brought the bedroom player to the forefront and helped guide desire for technical ability back into modern music, and for that I'm eternally grateful. For its entire existence its been shat on, and now that it's actually dying a slow saturated death it seems like we're just beating a dead horse with the same complaints we've had since it first showed up on the radar. As someone who hated modern music before, and gets flack from my "true" metalhead friends all the time listening to this "over polished regulated turd that Fred Thordendal pooped into Misha Mansoors mouth" (actual quote lol) I stand up proudly and say it changed the way I look at music for the better.*

O.T. I'm guessing as these bands mature they're going to split into three directions. Those who bring it to a more mainstream rock vibe, those whole expand on the atmospheric, and those who expand into heavier more extreme sides of this. Obviously we have those now but I'm sure they'll become more refined and defined as they go.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 13, 2015)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Why not? What's so special about djent that it acts a creative black hole?



Stop arguing the previous analogy, bro... 

crg123 -  Interesting perspective, man.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> You're arguing on my analogy, not the matter which my analogy pointed out. It's utterly wrong to do so, as you're not talking about djent anymore, but about a real-life pit from which you can draw potable water. My analogy wasn't about a real-life pit and water source. If you want, I can make you another analogy so you cannot interpret it wrongly.
> 
> Djent is akin to a black hole, a gravity pit. You cannot take gravity away from a black hole in order to do something else with it, say, a star/planet/etc.
> 
> ...



Believe me... I know what you meant. But the wording of your statment allowed me to meddle with the semantics and turn a negative into a positive... In a discussion with musicians you can't say you didn't see that coming. 

We're the type of ppl that will take onomatopoeia and make it a genre...


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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> However, the fact is still that: you cannot derive this style in order to create something totally else.



Name one genre that has that attribute.


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## EmaDaCuz (Mar 13, 2015)

The topic kind of derailed from "how far do you think dent will evolve" to "do you guys like djent?". I will jump in and try to contribute to both subpoints. I may sound offensive to some, but this is not my intention. So sorry if you feel hurt in your feelings.

No, I don't like djent. I find it to be a very immature form of music, it is the musical equivalent of PC/engineer "nerding". Just because you know how to write 10000 lines of code in XYZ language, it doesn't mean your program will be of any use. Just because you know how to solder all the electrical components to make a one-of-its-kind device, doesn't mean your device will be of any use. Djent is like this, pretentious, self-referential, cliched style, which encourages form over substance. It is extremely stereotyped, coded genre. And it is a musical mess, in which nothing fits together... I mean, melodies are completely off the rhythm session which is off the rhythm guitar which is off the vocals. I am not saying this "stuff" (don't want to call it music) is not technical or difficult to play, on the contrary. However, music has evolved through the centuries, it changed but it managed to maintain some distinctive characters and cornerstones that will never collapse. 
Djent, as it is now, fails as it claims to be innovative by forgetting what centuries of music has taught us. Which can be nice, revolutions are always welcome, but they have to be actual revolution and not total anarchy. So yeah, I dislike djent as a genre and as a live style. 

Nevertheless, I still see lots of potential in terms of possible evolution of djent. Potential which comes from the fact that djent is like a primordial broth, a mess that can give birth to anything. I think there will be soon a "schism". Some bands will get the Metallica road, going from rebel-and-alternative to popstars; their song will simplify their structure, the growling/screams will be left behind and the sound will progressively less aggressive and chuggy. On the other hand, there will be bands who will want to remain "underground" but want to try something new. And I think what we may have is a radical change in the guitar sound, from the tight, sterile tone we have now we will have something more vintage, warm, death metal sound. Composition will become more airy, more pleasant and natural, and the "airness" given by this "new" guitar sound will allow to get rid of useless synths.
Finally, we will have the bedroom-rats that will keep djenting like crazy.


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 13, 2015)

Kurkkuviipale said:


> Name one genre that has that attribute.



Death metal, Progressive metal, Black metal... Progressive rock... and many, many others. Djent isn't a genre, it's a riffing style.


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## Double A (Mar 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> Death metal, Progressive metal, Black metal... Progressive rock... and many, many others. Djent isn't a genre, it's a riffing style.


This. I am in a death/thrash band but I use djent techniques in my riffing. One thing I really took from Misha was the seemingly random hammer-on riffing thing he does. It sounds cool and I use that technique a lot to make complicated sounding riffs that are actually kinda easy to play. I wouldn't call my music djent but any djent fan could hear exactly what I took away from the genre.

As for where it is going? I loved the first periphery albums without vocals and I still love AAL but almost everything else I have heard from the "djent" has really just sounded derivative of those two bands to me but with pop music vocals. But this is what happens when you suddenly get originality that becomes successful. You get the fist generation of bands that will be around for a long time, then you get the second generation as people that are pretty good but lack that spark the originators have but are still worth listening to. Then you get the people that realize there is money to be made from this and they suck every cliche and polyrhythm dry for every dollar they can with shitty knockoffs.

Such is music.


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## GraemeH (Mar 13, 2015)

Nu djent->Ironically retro djent->Post-ironic djent.

But really, the same will happen as happens with all sub-genres that experience a big surge of popularity and bands rushing to buy into copying it quckly (see hair metal, grunge and nu-metal); the metal world will go on and just incorporate the good ideas into contexts that are less generic (djeneric?). For example, Deftones' recent Koi No Yokan album still has some nu-metal DNA in it. It's not nu-metal and it's not generic, it's brilliant.
In 5-10 years time some prog metal band will be incorporating some of the cornerstones of djent into some songs and make it sound great and the world will go on.
The bands that get identified as being part of that genre but that have individuality and aren't generic will continue and thrive. Like Deftones transcended when nu-metal went away, guys like Animals as Leaders and Meshuggah will when nobody's talking about "djent" anymore.

Just another branch in the big evolving tree of music. It's genetic. The strongest part of the material will get absorbed into the next thing and the weaker parts of the material will die out. This has been happening for hundreds of years.


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## bostjan (Mar 13, 2015)

I think Meshuggah was around long before Djent.

As for all of the genre-bashing: It's okay not to like a genre, but honestly, there is almost always at least one good band in any genre, and at least one bad band in a genre, and probably at least one band that went from good to bad, and maybe at least one band that went from bad to good.


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## Double A (Mar 13, 2015)

Meshuggah has been around since 1987... I don't lump them in with Djent.


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## GraemeH (Mar 13, 2015)

I know Meshuggah have been around since before the word "djent" was being used. I'm using them as an example of a band that have some/many of the elements if you boil it down, without being a generic tag-along band in the genre, and that's why they'll be around after its popularity has waned.
Same as for Deftones when I gave the nu-metal parallel example.


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 13, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I kinda hope all music evolves back toward having massive bands like Earth Wind & Fire, KC & the Sunshine Band or Rose Royce... Every metal band should just have a full orchestra.



Earth, Wind and Fire are the ....ing end of level boss of disco funk.

Ain't no one got groove like this these days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

What a monster tune, I love it


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## MerlinTKD (Mar 13, 2015)

GraemeH said:


> I know Meshuggah have been around since before the word "djent" was being used. I'm using them as an example of a band that have some/many of the elements if you boil it down, without being a generic tag-along band in the genre, and that's why they'll be around after its popularity has waned.
> Same as for Deftones when I gave the nu-metal parallel example.



Well, actually... Fred and Martin _coined_ the term... so...


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## spawnofthesith (Mar 13, 2015)

This thread is among the most absurd I've read in a while


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## asher (Mar 13, 2015)




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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> Death metal, Progressive metal, Black metal... Progressive rock... and many, many others. Djent isn't a genre, it's a riffing style.



Not any more than from "djent" (whatever that even is, the term djent seems to span such a large variety of different styles).

Why dismiss genres anyway? Just realize that some people might hear resemblances in two or more songs that you don't. Disagreeing something is a genre really brings nothing to the table.

Let me get my point through better: You CAN say you don't hear notable, previously unheard resemblance between two or more songs (which is what makes a genre anyway), BUT you can't say others don't hear it. It's how many people hear and note that said resemblance what gives value and weight to the concept of that genre. And yeah, pretty many people think "djent" is a proper genre. Saying that the genre "isn't real" only makes you look either close-minded or just unpurposefully being against the popular opinion, sorry.


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## spawnofthesith (Mar 14, 2015)

asher said:


>



"djent is dead! bullshit from the start! I'm an elitsist whiner!"

"I super mad and butthurt this shit even exists! Never going anywhere!"

"NO man! Djent be mad diverse check out all this different examples! my feelings be hurt from your anger!"

"Djent is way intellectual! I transcend to those cosmic rhythms!"


"We're all ....ing dweebs all around!"


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## Vres (Mar 14, 2015)

Most of the djent bands have sh*tty production qualities and go crazy over the time signatures, odd rhythmic cycles and breakdowns, this is why it became stale fast. But it's understandable, everyone was excited about the new approach to writing music, and pairing that with the fact that everyone can now make some form of music in their bedrooms...


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## octatoan (Mar 14, 2015)

Re people trying to call djent "not real music" or whatever, please listen to some Ferneyhough. (Aside: he's metal as ****.)


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## MerlinTKD (Mar 14, 2015)

asher said:


>



Took me this long to make out what that was a photo. Props.


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## Zban (Mar 14, 2015)

I've seen a few locals in my area blending Djent with Nu Metal..."NuDjent", if you will. Seems to be gaining some popularity, but honestly, I haven't seen anyone get it "right" yet. Most just blend the stalest elements of the two genres. :/


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## oompa (Mar 14, 2015)

Well I'm on the train with the guys who feel that this is just a quite talentless (by nature) fad that will blow over  Going derp, derp derp, derp derp derp, derp isn't much quality to base a genre on. Complicating note-pause to tickle the brain a bit is a neat little trick that has been around forever, not the foundation of a solid genre to me.

The reason an increase of bedroom players doing it is because it require minimal music theory knowledge, you don't need years of theory practising, that is all. It isn't really much more complicated.

Of course a few bands do add more elements to it who have great musical theory knowledge and taste, but in general the genre is about picking out one single component of music and trying to do it to boredom imo and it rarely works, It was fun when Meshuggah did it sorta 

So as for the topic of OP, I don't think it will evolve anywhere because of how limited it is by nature, and if anything it will die out as a fad.

That being said I don't see anything wrong with enjoying the groove if you enjoy the groove  I don't see anything wrong with that at all.


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## Grindspine (Mar 14, 2015)

oompa said:


> Well I'm on the train with the guys who feel that this is just a quite talentless (by nature) fad that will blow over  Going derp, derp derp, derp derp derp, derp isn't much quality to base a genre on.


 
So using guitar as a rhythmic instrument instead of a melodic one is talentless? Are drums (boom tick boom tick crash) also talentless?

That is a rhetorical question...

I'll just say that I like djenty rhythms for what they are...rhythms.


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## Humbuck (Mar 15, 2015)

I just wanted to add one thing to this thread. 

Oonoo kookoo looloo.

Thanks.


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## DarkWolfXV (Mar 15, 2015)

What is happening in metal (and maybe music in general) is triumph of form over content. Amazing production qualities, musicians which are very good players but abhorrent songwriters, all those fancy vocal techniques, but with very little substance or message in lyrics, technical drumming, complex, non 4/4 rhythms, failing to keep a good, strong pulse to keep the song together. Might sound great at first glance, but there is actually very little behind it.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Mar 15, 2015)

DarkWolfXV said:


> but there is actually very little behind it.



It's music; there's very little behind ANY of it...


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## DarkWolfXV (Mar 15, 2015)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> It's music; there's very little behind ANY of it...



True, art is generally a pointless endeavor. However I'd say that something like "Scissors" by Slipknot has far "more behind it" than "About That Life" by Attila.


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## zero_end (Mar 15, 2015)

I think Djent and Dubstep is the best thing evah!!!!


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## Axe Cop (Mar 15, 2015)

Djent will evolve into senseless technical noodling. Music is really losing the "feel"


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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 15, 2015)

Axe Cop said:


> Djent will evolve into senseless technical noodling. Music is really losing the "feel"



Yeah, "feel" and "soul" and "emotion" dude.


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## oompa (Mar 15, 2015)

Kurkkuviipale said:


> Yeah, "feel" and "soul" and "emotion" dude.



what's that supposed to mean lol


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## Hallic (Mar 15, 2015)

I need more popcorn :>


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## pushpull7 (Mar 16, 2015)

Djent will be replaced with ambient death polka with a drumnbass influence.


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## Zalbu (Mar 16, 2015)

oompa said:


> what's that supposed to mean lol


That they're just buzzwords that are usually thrown around by people who thinks that you can only achieve "feel" in music when bending 4 semitones on a Strat through a Twin Reverb while pulling a face that looks like you just saw Cthulhu in the flesh.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 16, 2015)

Zalbu said:


> That they're just buzzwords that are usually thrown around by people who thinks that you can only achieve "feel" in music when bending 4 semitones on a Strat through a Twin Reverb while pulling a face that looks like you just saw Cthulhu in the flesh.



Yep, and thus actually being the only people who can objectively define what "feel" is in music even saving the rest of us mere mortals from the trouble.


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## oompa (Mar 16, 2015)

Zalbu said:


> That they're just buzzwords that are usually thrown around by people who thinks that you can only achieve "feel" in music when bending 4 semitones on a Strat through a Twin Reverb while pulling a face that looks like you just saw Cthulhu in the flesh.



Could be, could be.

Could also just be a case of you-can't-tell-what-it-is-so-you-ridicule-all-of-it.

Could be.


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## mikernaut (Mar 17, 2015)

Maybe something like Sol 2183?

https://youtu.be/Uc4RIYzXuG0


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## redstone (Mar 17, 2015)

To answer seriously, it's like if we asked how far romantic music would evolve back in the 19th. It can't, because it started at its peak. Some people can make better melodies, write better texts, be better instrumentists, but it's not death metal. Djent is already the final evolution of a specific mindset in the metal genre.. The next evolution of djent won't happen in the metal sphere, it will be rediscovered later, maybe in different music genres, just as romantic music could be the next trendy mindset in metal.


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## HoneyNut (Mar 17, 2015)

...or it just might go extinct soon, like drum n bass, and possibly dubstep.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 17, 2015)

oompa said:


> Could be, could be.
> 
> Could also just be a case of you-can't-tell-what-it-is-so-you-ridicule-all-of-it.
> 
> Could be.



That's the point dude. "Feel" in music is a 100% completely subjective concept and by claiming some music doesn't have it without somehow implying that you realize it's just _your opinion_, I WILL come and point it out.

Did you know that some tribes in Africa were played various pieces of music from the Western society (stuff that we associate with a certain feeling, like the shower scene theme from the movie Psycho etc.) and they did not associate it with any of those feelings. However, just because they didn't "get" the songs, does not mean the songs didn't have "feel" in them. It doesn't mean the guys who didn't "get" them, were somehow wrong either.

Did I get my point accross? I'm not sure, I'm not that good at explaining my point of view sorry...


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## wat (Mar 17, 2015)

djent became a genre when people started referring to it as a genre. it's just how it works.


if i say "djent bands" everyone knows what bands i'm talking about. that's a genre, for better or worse.


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## The Omega Cluster (Mar 17, 2015)

wat said:


> djent became a genre when people started referring to it as a genre. it's just how it works.
> 
> 
> if i say "djent bands" everyone knows what bands i'm talking about. that's a genre, for better or worse.



A genre is just that. A group of similar-sounding musics.


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## asher (Mar 18, 2015)

wat said:


> djent became a genre when people started referring to it as a genre. it's just how it works.
> 
> 
> if i say "djent bands" everyone knows what bands i'm talking about. that's a genre, for better or worse.



Yeah, and this has been true for years.


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## 7soundz (Mar 18, 2015)

I'd give it another 3-5 years before everyone gets tired of it. "Djent" is amazingly uninspiring. It's just a lot of technical noise that serves no purpose other than to showcase technical ability. Having technical ability is great, but it should be balanced and I don't get the impression that too many artist are versed enough on their instrument to be balanced. 
I am by no means the greatest guitar player, but I find that focusing on one one ability or specific sound in a piece of music to be pointless. If your goal is to create music that can stand the test of time and to progress as an artist, you should be more diverse. 

It's like shred guitar for example, in the 80s, shred was just fast playing when you had nothing else musically interesting to "say". When used appropriately, it added dynamics to a song. When newer guitar players started writing full songs that contained nothing but shred, guitar playing was all about whose the fastest and not about who can compose a moving piece of music. With "Djent" the ability to play technical riffs is great, but it shouldn't be the primary focus of a song or an entire album. After a while you will quickly loose the motivation and the inspiration to create something unique. I think this may have been one of the reasons Periphery moved away from the style of their first album.

That's just my opinion....


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## ncfiala (Mar 18, 2015)

Djent will not and can not "evolve." For something to evolve there must be variation. But djent all sounds the same (terrible).


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## bostjan (Mar 18, 2015)

As a product of the 80's, it pains me to see this thread devolve into shred bashing.

Personally, I think guys like Yngwie, Kotzen, Vai, and even Satch play with tons of feeling. When people say that their music has no emotion in it, and I challenge those people to name a player who played with tons of feeling, they usually list Clapton, Page, Hendrix, etc. If you rewind to 1970, you could have exactly the same conversation, though, except Clapton, Page, and Hendrix would suddenly be the guys who were just making a lot of noises, and the real guitar players who played with emotion would then be Charlie Christian and Django Reinhardt.

They are all excellent players.

If the feeling of something doesn't speak to you, you know what, that's too bad, but it doesn't mean that there is no feeling in it, it just means that it doesn't speak to you. If it speaks to a crowd of kids somewhere, then objectively, there is probably some feeling to it. Maybe the emotion coming across is prentious or snotty, or whatever, but it exists, and it is obviously valued differently by different people.

It's too bad if you don't like shred, but it's not a religion or even a political party, so we aren't trying to cram it down your throat or anything, we're just trying to sharre something with you because it spoke to us, and we hope that you enjoy it.

Now, if you are refering to some of the "cheap" shred artists, like DMAG, well, I'm certainly not going to defend that, but hey, evidently, that guy has some dedicated fans out there, so good on him for that, although I'm not into his revised history of the guitar.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Mar 18, 2015)

^this guy gets it


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## 7soundz (Mar 19, 2015)

I would hardly call Satriani and Vai "shred" guitarist since shred is just fast playing and they used it tastefully. Others focused their entire style on fast playing through an entire song and "shred guitar" eventually died... The same may very well happen to Djent..


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## JustMac (Mar 19, 2015)

Why is it still _'the'_ trend in modern metal music? Last year's JFaC, Revocation and Fallujah were all fantastic but didn't seem to resonate with many outside of that established DM community. I think others (broader music community) look to modern metal and see, namely: Periphery; Tesseract and the new Contortionist; all of whom could be viewed as a very-well developed form of djent. It's cool do see the divergence that has occurred in each band's growth...drama/theatrical and top 40pop aspects with Periphery, vocal prowess and groove with Tesseract and ambience/atmosphere with the Contortionist. And is it good? Yup. Groundbreaking? Eh. Will it stand the test of time like seminal metal records like aJFa, British Steel, Symbolic, White Pony, Lateralus, Rust in Peace etc.? Hell to the no. And it's because, like so many of you have said, the songwriting is just not there. A lot of it isn't cohesive and it all seems a bit...disjointed. 


I can't guess what the next thing will be, but I would have thought that at this stage we're ready for it. I hope the upcoming BtBaM album in July does something to metal unseen before, as well as the new SikTh that's been promised. This TurboTechWankDjjjonT stuff has to end somewhere though.


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## JohnIce (Mar 19, 2015)

bostjan said:


> As a product of the 80's, it pains me to see this thread devolve into shred bashing.
> 
> Personally, I think guys like Yngwie, Kotzen, Vai, and even Satch play with tons of feeling. When people say that their music has no emotion in it, and I challenge those people to name a player who played with tons of feeling, they usually list Clapton, Page, Hendrix, etc. If you rewind to 1970, you could have exactly the same conversation, though, except Clapton, Page, and Hendrix would suddenly be the guys who were just making a lot of noises, and the real guitar players who played with emotion would then be Charlie Christian and Django Reinhardt.
> 
> ...



Very good point 

As far as djent goes though it's unique in a timing sense. While all generations of players have new possibilities, new technology and gear etc., the djent generation is the first to have had high-speed internet and that's a HUGE difference to, let's say, a cutting edge fuzz pedal in the 70's.

The thing I see is that it used to be that knowledge and experience kind of went hand in hand for musicians. You could take lessons if you could afford them, but probably no more than an hour a week and your teacher probably didn't know everything. So you learned mostly by doing, trying, and using your imagination and creativity. And thus progress was slow and you probably had to play for 10 years or so before you could really impress anybody. But by then, you had a rock-solid understanding of music and the instrument due to 10 years of experience with it, probably with a lot of songwriting done as well.

Now, guitar players are learning maybe 10x faster thanks to youtube and google and guitar pro etc. but their knowledge increases disproportionally to their experience. Cause who takes time to figure something out yourself without googling it first? Hence: 15-year olds playing mind-blowing shred, note for note after maybe 2-3 years of playing. But, they lack the experience that we're all used to hearing from someone playing such difficult stuff. The development of taste, the deeper understanding of themselves that comes from a decade of figuring your shit out, is missing. They've never been bored with music, never lived with writer's block, never felt the crippling emptiness of thinking everything's been done and you're just _aching_ to innovate but you don't know how. They just skipped over it  Someone may definitely interpret this as lack of "feel". Not the word I'd use but I see the issue people are having with it all.


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## CreptorStatus (Mar 19, 2015)

KFW said:


> For what it's worth, here is what I think happens.
> Nu-metal won't come back, and neither will simplistic and raw 4/4 type of metal.



No offense man but that's got to be one of the most silly comments i've read in a while. I can't imagine a time signature being "out" in metal, much less ANY genre of music. 

That's like saying "the C note is out man, everyone has played that note."


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## DarkWolfXV (Mar 19, 2015)

KFW said:


> Nu-metal won't come back, and neither will simplistic and raw 4/4 type of metal.



You're wrong. We've already went full circle and are experiencing a nu metal revival, right now.


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## KristapsCoCoo (Mar 19, 2015)

CreptorStatus said:


> No offense man but that's got to be one of the most silly comments i've read in a while. I can't imagine a time signature being "out" in metal, much less ANY genre of music.
> 
> That's like saying "the C note is out man, everyone has played that note."



true! Even more so when most of 'djent' music, a lot of prog or any music that sounds 'weirdly timed' is played in 4/4 with unconventional accents, poly rhythms and other tricks to make it sound like that.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Mar 22, 2015)

7soundz said:


> It's just a lot of technical noise that serves no purpose other than to showcase technical ability.



Uhm, what? Sure, stuff like Periphery and Animals as Leaders might be intricate, but none of that comes from what makes it djenty. Quite the contrary, I'd argue djent is inherently simple. There's very little technical extravagance from the likes of Vildhjarta or Monuments, and even the polyrhythmic stuff Meshuggah pioneered isn't terribly difficult to play if you can wrap your head around it. Anup Sastry's stuff is as close to a quintessential djent sound as it gets in my opinion, and there isn't even a real guitar player behind any of it.

Technical extravagance has _never_ been the point of djent.


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## Sikthness (Mar 23, 2015)

All djent bands' range of sounds will converge into a singularity, sounding exactly like Periphery. Eventually, all djent musicians will collaborate on a nationwide album, calling themselves Djent and releasing their s/t debut, which will contain virtually no compelling new material.


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