# My Kiesel HH2 build - Am I wrong to be a little bit disappointed?



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

This is my first time posting on this board, so apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.

First off, I would like to make the caveat that I'm very pleased with the guitar I received in regards to the build quality and playability. I have never played a guitar that feels better than this one. I am mostly expressing disappointment in my own self and in my choices, although to be fair, there was no way I could have known that things would have turned out the way they did, as I will explain.

In December 2020, I spec'd out and ordered a guitar that would eventually become this:




Although, six months into the build process, I was notified via email that there had been a mistake. I specified at the time of ordering that I wanted direct mounted pickups (pickups without the plastic bezel rings). As you can see, this one was mistakenly routed incorrectly. No sweat! Shit happens. I was given the option to either accept this guitar with a $200 refund for the incorrectly routed pickups, or I could wait and have the guitar rebuilt. I initially accepted the guitar as it was, but my heart and my gut kept telling me that I should stick to what I originally wanted and what I specifically ordered, out of fear that I may eventually regret it and not be fully happy with the guitar in the long run. I ended up telling them that I would rather opt for the rebuild.

Being that this would likely be the only guitar of this caliber I would ever be able to afford in my lifetime, I was more than willing to continue patiently waiting. I was just grateful that they were willing to rebuild the guitar.

Kiesel handled the rebuild very promptly, and within three to four weeks I had a guitar. Here is a photo of the actual guitar I received:




Once the initial excitement of receiving the guitar wore off, I began to _really look_ at the guitar and my rose colored glasses were lifted, so to say.

Am I wrong in being a bit disappointed with what I ended up with in contrast to what I was supposed to originally receive? I spent almost $3000 on this guitar. I was expecting the blue denim top to be, well,_ blue_. It has a very dark and dingy look to it, almost charred looking, and the fretboard is very bland as well in my honest opinion, while the original is quite colorful/beautiful. Keep in mind that that photo is not altered in any way and is an accurate depiction of what it looks like in person. I would have expected to receive a guitar that looked like the first guitar, although with the pickups routed correctly to how I ordered them. I am fully aware that the quality of woods comes down to the luck of the draw much of the time, but to me this seems a bit of an extreme contrast.

While I understand fully that I was given the option to accept the initial guitar, there was no way that at that point in time I could have known that the rebuild would have been so inferior. I deeply regret my decision, but in all fairness, I simply wanted to receive precisely what I specifically ordered and paid for, especially given the price I paid for it.

So, what do you guys think? How would you feel if you were in my situation?


----------



## Yreva (Jan 4, 2022)

Hello,
I’m not seeing your pictures. Also have you contacted Kiesel?


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

Yreva said:


> Hello,
> I’m not seeing your pictures. Also have you contacted Kiesel?



Sorry about that. I'm still figuring this site out. They should now be visible as thumbnails in the original post.



Yreva said:


> Also have you contacted Kiesel?



I've had this guitar for almost six months now. It's far too late for that, and there would have been nothing that could be done about it anyway. I'm just posting now to see if anyone else would feel the way I do. I just regret that things turned out the way they did.


----------



## High Plains Drifter (Jan 4, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> This is my first time posting on this board, so apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.
> 
> First off, I would like to make the caveat that I'm very pleased with the guitar I received in regards to the build quality and playability. I have never played a guitar that feels better than this one. I am mostly expressing disappointment in my own self and in my choices, although to be fair, there was no way I could have known that things would have turned out the way they did, as I will explain.
> 
> ...



I'm not seeing the pics.. prob something on my end. But tbh it doesn't matter what anyone else feels b/c after 6 mo you're not going to have any recourse but to sell it or accept it or pay more money to have it refinished. I do feel for you cause I hate the feeling that you apparently have right now... When something bugs me aesthetically, it's hard to overcome it. Glad that it plays well... I mean, I'd much rather have a guitar that plays awesome yet doesn't look quite as nice as I'd have liked than visa-versa. And maybe you'll eventually jive more with the way it looks. 

Always a crap shoot in these situations and although it doesn't help, there have been a good number of Kiesel customers in this same boat.

Ah- EDIT> I see the pics now.. idk.. doesn't look that bad. I kinda dig it.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> doesn't look that bad. I kinda dig it.



Ha yeah, that's how I felt initially as well. Regardless, thanks for the response.


----------



## AltecGreen (Jan 4, 2022)

I think most can understand your disappointment. This is one of the pitfalls of a custom order. There's never a guarantee of the end result. Kiesel did a fine job accommodating the original issue. (I'm saying this as someone who is not a fan of Kiesel). 

BTW-where did that first picture come from. I assume it was not yours. That picture may not reflect reality. Also, your original post was fine. The pictures came up after I did a few things to get them to show up. That issue is on the forum software. What you have now is really too small for others to see.


----------



## DudeManBrother (Jan 4, 2022)

I don’t blame you for being bummed out. The color is not very exciting to look at. It doesn’t look bad, just not exciting. The sad part is all the horror stories about Kiesel seem to start with situations similar to yours. I’m not saying they wouldn’t accept it back and refinish it; but they might also only offer a refund and ban you from buying from them again  

Bottom line is: send the guitar back if it’s not what you wanted. Send your sales guy an email and ask them to help make it right with a refinish.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

DudeManBrother said:


> I don’t blame you for being bummed out. The color is not very exciting to look at. It doesn’t look bad, just not exciting. The sad part is all the horror stories about Kiesel seem to start with situations similar to yours. I’m not saying they wouldn’t accept it back and refinish it; but they might also only offer a refund and ban you from buying from them again
> 
> Bottom line is: send the guitar back if it’s not what you wanted. Send your sales guy an email and ask them to help make it right with a refinish.



Yeah man, I've read enough horror stories about kiesel and I am not about to get involved with them any further about this. I'm just thankful that I got out "relatively unscathed" after the rebuild. It's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned at this point. Though, I still could barely believe it when I received the email that they had messed up the guitar. I thought "of all the guitars this could have happened to...", etc. Worse comes to worst, I could perhaps sell it at some point to finance another build (if I can't find a way to really like it), and fork out the little bit extra to ensure I get some premium woods.


----------



## Yreva (Jan 4, 2022)

Well it’s definitely not any shade of blue by anyone’s definition. I’d sure contact Kiesel and either they’ll try to make it right or you can sell it. Not being able to at least see, if not play, a guitar before I buy it has always made me hesitant to order custom. Which is why I typically buy from vendors who provide detailed images. I empathize with your situation. No matter how great the guitar, if something is bugging me about it aesthetically it won’t get played much. I’d humbly and honestly present your case to Kiesel…I’d be willing to bet they’ll try to rectify the situation to your satisfaction. Best wishes.
Mark


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

Yreva said:


> Well it’s definitely not any shade of blue by anyone’s definition. I’d sure contact Kiesel and either they’ll try to make it right or you can sell it. Not being able to at least see, if not play, a guitar before I buy it has always made me hesitant to order custom. Which is why I typically buy from vendors who provide detailed images. I empathize with your situation. No matter how great the guitar, if something is bugging me about it aesthetically it won’t get played much. I’d humbly and honestly present your case to Kiesel…I’d be willing to bet they’ll try to rectify the situation to your satisfaction. Best wishes.
> Mark



I will give it some careful consideration, although I'm sure Kiesel would just tell me to "kick rocks", basically. Thank you for your thoughtful response.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 4, 2022)

Yeah, I see what you mean about the blue. But, it doesn’t look particularly bad.
And that build of your mistake guitar from Kiesel? I promise you that’s not what it looks like in real life. They jacked the saturation way up on it to make it look better. It’s a known kiesel thing. And I’m sure they did it to try to get you to just accept the guitar with the pickup rings.

I kieselified your photo to make it a more fair comparison:


----------



## bigcupholder (Jan 4, 2022)

Kiesel photos always have the saturation and contrast cranked up and are taken in good lighting. This is true of all guitars of course, it just matters more for fancier finishes (and plain black guitars)

I'm sure your guitar would look a lot better if you took a photo in the daylight and manipulated the photo a bit.

So you might've felt the exact same about how it looks compared to their photo if you'd accepted the first one.


----------



## budda (Jan 4, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> I will give it some careful couldn't consideration, although I'm sure Kiesel would just tell me to "kick rocks", basically. Thank you for your thoughtful response.



You can speculate all you want, but until you ask you won't actually know.

I would say that isn't really a faded denim finish, and I would inquire about it even this late in the game.

It does indeed suck a lot to spend a lot on a guitar and not have it meet expectations.

Edit: even with Holloway's touchup, it doesn't look close to the OP pic.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I see what you mean about the blue. But, it doesn’t look particularly bad.
> And that build of your mistake guitar from Kiesel? I promise you that’s not what it looks like in real life. They jacked the saturation way up on it to make it look better. It’s a known kiesel thing. And I’m sure they did it to try to get you to just accept the guitar with the pickup rings.



Actually, that photo never even surfaced until a week or two after this whole deal took place. When they emailed me that they had mistakenly routed the pickups on the guitar, I even asked them for photos and they wouldn't send me any hahaha. And you are right about them jacking up the contrast and saturation. They did the same with a photo of the guitar I received, but I believe probably moreso than the first photo (just compare the color and figuring of the two fretboards to get a good idea of the difference in quality between the two - photo-editing aside):


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jan 4, 2022)

That whole thing sucks man, I’m sorry it ended up like this. 

This site (and reviews just like yours of that company in particular) have just completely soured me on custom builds forever.


----------



## budda (Jan 4, 2022)

steinmetzify said:


> That whole thing sucks man, I’m sorry it ended up like this.
> 
> This site (and reviews just like yours of that company in particular) have just completely soured me on custom builds forever.



This is why people buy used customs at half price


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Jan 4, 2022)

Big oof was the first thing I said to myself and still feel that way. I'm sorry man, that really does suck. Even the Kiesel taken photo of your guitar you received doesn't compare to the other at least in my opinion.

In fairness to Kiesel, I will say I've seen A LOT of shitty denim finishes come out of even the top tier guitar builders (looking at you Paul) so it certainly does happen.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 4, 2022)

Just realized there's two thread for this. That extra kieselified photo where he's holding it up I think makes me feel that much more like I prefer the one you got to the one you missed. That probably doesn't help much, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jan 4, 2022)

budda said:


> This is why people buy used customs at half price



Oh yeah I still do that lol


----------



## Randy (Jan 4, 2022)

Both nice guitars but yeah, Kiesel famously inconsistent in the color you get vs what you thought you were getting. Sucks for what you paid but still a helluva guitar.


----------



## AdenM (Jan 4, 2022)

That faded whale blue/trans blue denim slate does tend to have that look, unfortunately. I requested a similar finish on my LsL XT4 and was informed that it could end up looking grey when done over a quilt versus a flame, ultimately turned out okay though. Ended up selling it as it wasn't as inspiring an instrument to me. 







I do think yours looks killer, custom guitars are tough - you spend a lot of money to not make compromises on what you want, but sometimes the end product isn't what you wanted regardless.


----------



## kmanick (Jan 4, 2022)

Well that just sucks , $3000 and you didn't even get what you asked for. I'd get right on that phone, at this point you've got nothing to lose


----------



## High Plains Drifter (Jan 4, 2022)

But 6 months... I just think OP is outta luck on this one. Nothing to lose in calling I guess but seems so unlikely just cause it's been so long after taking possession of it. Really hope dude finds some kinda resolve on this regardless.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> But 6 months... I just think OP is outta luck on this one. Nothing to lose in calling I guess but seems so unlikely just cause it's been so long after taking possession of it. Really hope dude finds some kinda resolve on this regardless.



I appreciate the well-wishes. I've pretty much accepted that I'll have to just deal with it. I've just been ruminating over this for so long that I finally had to vent. Not really looking to "solve" anything. And yes, it is way too late at this point. However, I will be keeping an eye out to see if the other one ever ends up for sale anywhere.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 4, 2022)

AdenM said:


> That faded whale blue/trans blue denim slate does tend to have that look, unfortunately. I requested a similar finish on my LsL XT4 and was informed that it could end up looking grey when done over a quilt versus a flame, ultimately turned out okay though. Ended up selling it as it wasn't as inspiring an instrument to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that top is gorgeous from where I'm at!


----------



## ScottThunes1960 (Jan 4, 2022)

Just sell the guitar. You’re not going to get your $3k back - You were *never *going to get your $3k back. This kind of buyer’s remorse is actually what Kiesel is all about:

If someone knows _exactly_ what they want in a guitar, then they probably aren’t considering a Kiesel - And Kiesel understands this. They’re the definitive entry level, “custom” guitar brand (you’re ultimately just playing Barbie Dress Up within the parameters of their builder). The brand was forced to start marketing itself as premium a few years ago when Jeff refused to compromise his standard of living by moving the factory anywhere cheaper than Southern California - But it’s still ultimately the same Men’s Wearhouse of the guitar world that Carvin was. Set your expectations accordingly, and you’ll feel better about selling your first custom guitar six months on because you “just didn’t bond with it.”

None of that is a knock on Kiesel’s quality - Just explaining that much of what convinces someone to order a Kiesel as their first “custom” guitar is based more in marketing than reality; and results in players setting themselves up for unnecessary disappointment where there doesn’t need to be any.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 4, 2022)

AdenM said:


> That faded whale blue/trans blue denim slate does tend to have that look, unfortunately. I requested a similar finish on my LsL XT4 and was informed that it could end up looking grey when done over a quilt versus a flame, ultimately turned out okay though. Ended up selling it as it wasn't as inspiring an instrument to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks super cool! Though, I can't tell what's chatoyance and what is window blinds reflection.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 4, 2022)

ScottThunes1960 said:


> Just sell the guitar. You’re not going to get your $3k back - You were *never *going to get your $3k back. This kind of buyer’s remorse is actually what Kiesel is all about:



Yeah, I mean you could just put it on Reverb at $3000 and $100 shipping and leave it there, and if it sells, great, if not, decide if you want to keep it or ratchet it down. For whatever strange turn of events led us to this place, people are routinely listing Kiesels at or slightly above new value, and others are actually buying them.


----------



## ScottThunes1960 (Jan 4, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I mean you could just put it on Reverb at $3000 and $100 shipping and leave it there, and if it sells, great, if not, decide if you want to keep it or ratchet it down. For whatever strange turn of events led us to this place, people are routinely listing Kiesels at or slightly above new value, and others are actually buying them.



Oh? If that’s the current trend, then all the better for him.


----------



## NoodleFace (Jan 5, 2022)

I don't hate it, but it does not look like a $3k guitar to me - and I love my kiesel.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 5, 2022)

I think its the big issue with ordering any guitar with a figured top, you never know what you are gonna get. Sometimes though, when you are not happy with a guitar's aesthetics, it helps to just forget about the annoyance and just keep playing it (i like the idea of listing it on reverb at what you paid, if it sells great, if not it just sits there no harm) - I have an Aristides 070 that is probably the best playing guitar I've ever owned, but I dont love the color anymore - Thought about selling it in 2019 but now I've decided I like it again, and glad I didn't sell it.. So that might happen down the road too. 

Just remember next time you go to order a figured top guitar, its always going to be a gamble, regardless if its Suhr or Kiesel or PRS 10-Tops or whatever..


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Jan 5, 2022)

That sucks man. Try talking to them, as 3k is no small price. FWIW I haven’t seen too many of that blue denim finish that actually look good. It’s just too washed (bam!) out for me to like it, and the one you got looks really bleached over.


----------



## Masoo2 (Jan 5, 2022)

Were the knobs meant to be switched from build 1 to build 2? Just curious


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 5, 2022)

Masoo2 said:


> Were the knobs meant to be switched from build 1 to build 2? Just curious



That first guitar was not completely finished at the point when I decided to opt for a rebuild, and since it was no longer going to be mine, I figure they just decided they wanted to put the black numbered knobs on it. It would have had the chrome knobs as well. It's kind of funny.... All of those options that I initially did not like about the first guitar have really grown on me the more I've looked at it.


----------



## sleewell (Jan 5, 2022)

Oomph

They are just going to tell you to sell it. 

That one def hurts. Sorry.


----------



## laxu (Jan 5, 2022)

When I ordered my Skervesen they explicitly stated they would do their best to match the color in the Photoshopped images I sent them but could not guarantee it's exact. That's with a more custom offering than Kiesel. Things like people's monitors/phones/tablets are often not calibrated for color accuracy or capable of it in the first place.

When I ordered my Kiesel AM7 I did a photoshop again using their website pictures. The end result is extremely close to what I asked for but it used all standard features and finishes, only thing I asked for is a more red hued mahogany. Love the guitar.

It's worth remembering that for figured wood finishes the lighting matters a ton. I can take that AM7 and put it in sunlight and it will look a helluva lot more vibrant than it does in normal indoor lighting. Same for any of my other guitars.

If you are not happy with how it looks you will just have to take the hit and sell it. Or if it sounds and feels great, deal with it not being exactly the look you originally wanted.


----------



## Fader (Jan 5, 2022)

Kiesel guitars are very inconsistent. My first one was great, the 2 that followed sucked with all kinds of issues.
On top of it all, Jeff Kiesel is a POS, Narcissistic tool! 

Hope that helps!



LexMentis said:


> This is my first time posting on this board, so apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.
> 
> First off, I would like to make the caveat that I'm very pleased with the guitar I received in regards to the build quality and playability. I have never played a guitar that feels better than this one. I am mostly expressing disappointment in my own self and in my choices, although to be fair, there was no way I could have known that things would have turned out the way they did, as I will explain.
> 
> ...


----------



## Flappydoodle (Jan 5, 2022)

Yeah, it's unfortunate to not be happy. But this is the exact sort of thing which has put me off ordering custom guitars or getting super picky about colours/finishes.

End of the day, I just don't care *that* much if something is the right shade of blue. I care much more about the playability, tone and whether I find the instrument FUN to play. If I cared that much about getting colours exactly right, I also wouldn't be ordering it over the Internet. I'd be meeting the builder, taking in printed out colour samples for them to match etc etc.

I agree with the guy above. Just sell it. It's an attractive guitar, so someone will buy it.

If you have $3,000 to spend, get yourself into a nice guitar store and test out things to see what you like. Or go for something "off the shelf", or something which is highly reproducible like Aristides where they can pretty much guarantee the consistency.


----------



## jco5055 (Jan 5, 2022)

Sorry to hear about OP's issues, but yeah besides the fact for really any builder the color on a stain can't be guaranteed, Kiesel guitars "thing" is being one of the best bang for your buck guitars if you keep the finish and options relatively tame, and keep the price ~$2k. Anything more like in this instance, you are paying $3k for a $2k guitar with fancier finishes and such. So if one has a hard $3k limit, either buy used or get a good production guitar new (or get something like an Aristides R series guitar).


----------



## Randy (Jan 5, 2022)

Yeah, being here all this time has soured me to most custom guitar work and that's coming from someone that makes custom guitars  Some stuff like oddball specs (bridge, scale, shape) full custom is in play but man, finishes and tops are such a crapshoot. 

I mean, I get the idea of "this is gonna be my one and only" for sure but idk, I've been that way with a couple guitars and after seeing all the horror shows on this site over time, I'm more inclined to post some WTB, some saved searches for my "white whale" guitars with a generous price range and just pounce when the right one comes up. Could be weeks, could be years but at least you get to see it before you're committed.

I'm not totally off of customs but super contextual. Most satisfied customers I've seen find a builder they like and trust, and put at least some amount of the design process in their hands. Unfortunately Jeff Kiesel is not the kinda guy you want to put any level of artistic liberties on when it comes to stuff like choosing your top/stains. Sucks.


----------



## soliloquy (Jan 5, 2022)

my two cents:

as mentioned above, grained guitars will react differently under different lighting conditions. a Purple can easily look brown, maroon, blue, or black in certain lighting. 
if its a solid colored guitar, you will still have color shifts (White, for example, becomes cream, snow white, off white, olympic aged white, yellow, light blue, light pink etc based on the current lighting situation). 

If its grain topped guitar, unless you select it yourself, and are aware that the flame/quilt may or may not pop as much after its finished, then go with that. 

either way, you wont be satisfied if you're buying the guitar for visual aspects, thus it may eventually impact your playing, and thus impact your overall satisfaction with the guitar.


i'd suggest to either accept that there wont ever be a perfect guitar, and that guitars are a tool that helps you get the music you want....or keep searching and hope for a holy grail that suits your needs perfect?


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 5, 2022)

soliloquy said:


> i'd suggest to either accept that there wont ever be a perfect guitar, and that guitars are a tool that helps you get the music you want....



I totally agree and understand this. I really enjoy playing it, and the look of it doesn't have any effect on that aspect. It is not the most important thing to me, but if I spent extra money to have a "cool looking" guitar, it's just a bit disappointing when it falls short of that. To be honest, I would have now preferred to have bought a plain black one, because like you said, it's really just about the music.


----------



## Schweick (Jan 5, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> I totally agree and understand this. I really enjoy playing it, and the look of it doesn't have any effect on that aspect. It is not the most important thing to me, but if I spent extra money to have a "cool looking" guitar, it's just a bit disappointing when it falls short of that. To be honest, I would have now preferred to have bought a plain black one, because like you said, it's really just about the music.



If you plan on keeping the guitar then why not consider having it refinished in something more to your liking?


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 5, 2022)

Schweick said:


> If you plan on keeping the guitar then why not consider having it refinished in something more to your liking?




Is that something that Kiesel offers? If so, I may give it some thought. Still, I may just put it up for sale and play it in the mean time until/if it sells, like others recommended


----------



## Schweick (Jan 5, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Is that something that Kiesel offers? If so, I may give it some thought. Still, I may just put it up for sale and play it in the mean time until/if it sells, like others recommended


If you like the giutar, like the way it plays and sounds, then it would probably make more sense to pay someone a couple of hundred dollars to refinish it rather than loose that much more trying to move it on the used market.


----------



## budda (Jan 5, 2022)

Schweick said:


> If you like the giutar, like the way it plays and sounds then it would probably make more sense to pay someone a couple of hundred dollars to refinish it rather than loose that much more trying to move it on the used market.



Just make sure its a trustworthy reliable refinisher.


----------



## ScottThunes1960 (Jan 5, 2022)

budda said:


> Just make sure its a trustworthy reliable refinisher.



The “Anyone but Sims” rule.

If there’s a takeaway from this thread, it may be this: If your budget for a new guitar is three thousand, don’t just find a way to make a thousand dollar guitar cost three thousand.


----------



## jl-austin (Jan 5, 2022)

I know how you feel to some extent. I ordered a trans black RGA321 from Ibanez (I think they only made the trans black 1 year, maybe 2). It was what I considered a 1 in a lifetime guitar. When I got it, the finish was so dark that you have to put it under a light to see the wood grain, which really bummed me out. I ended up selling it quickly because I was so disappointed. 

There are many guitars I regret selling, that wasn't one of them. Every time I looked at it I was like *sigh.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 5, 2022)

laxu said:


> When I ordered my Skervesen they explicitly stated they would do their best to match the color in the Photoshopped images I sent them but could not guarantee it's exact. That's with a more custom offering than Kiesel. Things like people's monitors/phones/tablets are often not calibrated for color accuracy or capable of it in the first place.
> 
> When I ordered my Kiesel AM7 I did a photoshop again using their website pictures. The end result is extremely close to what I asked for but it used all standard features and finishes, only thing I asked for is a more red hued mahogany. Love the guitar.
> 
> ...


Dude just realized your AM7 is what got me on the mahogany backed aquaburst topped kick, I lusted over it for like weeeeeeks as I was waiting. Good taste my man.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine (Jan 5, 2022)

Typical Kiesel rushing re-builds as usual. We have seen this time and time again on this forum.

Honestly, OP, given Kiesel’s reputation for messing up re-builds upon a customer’s request, you should have just stuck with the pickup rings. I mean, are they REALLY that much of a killer and that offputting? Pickup rings now cost you a better build.

Also, that stain job on the top is terribly uneven and didn’t absorb into the wood correctly. (Probably due to being a rushed job.) It is already faded/receding around the edges of the top, and it will only continue to do so the more that you play/handle the guitar.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 5, 2022)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Honestly, OP, given Kiesel’s reputation for messing up re-builds upon a customer’s request, you should have just stuck with the pickup rings.



Yes, I have already established more than once that I figured this out. Hindsight is 20/20, as it is said.



Emperor Guillotine said:


> I mean, are they REALLY that much of a killer and that offputting? Pickup rings now cost you a better build.



No, they are not, but I did not feel that way_ at the time_ and I could not have known that things would have turned out the way they did. I wanted what I specifically ordered and paid for, as any customer should be entitled to. But of course, as I have said, if I could go back I would _gladly_ accept that guitar, knowing what I now know. The pickup rings have even grown on me the more I've stared longingly at that photo, as well as the black numbered knobs. Gives a nice contrast. But that is neither here nor there, and has nothing to do with the original issue of being given such an inferior rebuild.


----------



## mbardu (Jan 6, 2022)

Where Kiesel is really at fault here, but most builders would be the same, is proudly sharing posts with those oversatured/maxed-out contrast pictures.
They give you unrealistic expectations of what you'll get and that can be misleading an disappointing when getting the end product.
Oh and of course messing up the routing in the first place 

The guitar itself is pretty typical of a faded blue on quilt though, even for brands like Suhr.
Especially on quilt, where it looks even more washed out than flame - you're rarely really going to get bright and vibrant colors with a real "denim" style finish- it's kinda the idea.
The resulting looks are not for everyone though, so despite the very nice figure in the quilt here, it sucks if you were picturing something else


----------



## Avedas (Jan 6, 2022)

Geez man, my two latest builds got featured on their Instagram and look just as good in my hands as they did in their photos. I wouldn't be that quick to blame photo editing, although I wouldn't put it past them to try to make a subpar result look better. If you're disappointed with it I'd just take the loss and sell it though.

Also that's a crazy long build time in general. Does Kiesel take that long now?


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 6, 2022)

Avedas said:


> Geez man, my two latest builds got featured on their Instagram and look just as good in my hands as they did in their photos. I wouldn't be that quick to blame photo editing, although I wouldn't put it past them to try to make a subpar result look better. If you're disappointed with it I'd just take the loss and sell it though.
> 
> Also that's a crazy long build time in general. Does Kiesel take that long now?



Lots of builds are 25-ish weeks. Most still seem quicker, but there's a growing number that are 25-28 weeks. In today's live, he Jeff mentioned they had over 1300 guitars in the works right now, and if you've followed their numbers for the last few years, he used to say anything over 1000 was super high, and they've been over that now for just about 2 entire years now.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 6, 2022)

budda said:


> This is why people buy used customs at half price



*THIS*

I have 3 Jackson Custom Shop guitars. None of them were spec'ed by me. The price I got them was at least 1500$ less than retail for the store models, and 2500$ less for the used one. No 3-year wait, no build-up hype and disappointment.

Anecdotically, one of them was as close to my ideal CS as it could be (and in some cases even better). But when I received it, I was disappointed by some things that were not as I had imagined (weight, body size, tone), *but they were exactly as I would have ordered them *. This goes for people spending 3-4k in custom guitars thinking they know what they want (on paper), only to be disappointed after a two-year wait (not saying it's your case).

Custom guitars are overrated. There is no *perfect* guitar. We will always want different flavours.



Emperor Guillotine said:


> Typical Kiesel rushing re-builds as usual. We have seen this time and time again on this forum.
> 
> Honestly, OP, given Kiesel’s reputation for messing up re-builds upon a customer’s request, you should have just stuck with the pickup rings. I mean, are they REALLY that much of a killer and that offputting? Pickup rings now cost you a better build.



By that logic he shouldn't have ordered one in the first place. But I can assure you that if I found pickup rings in my custom order after a 2-year wait I'd definetely lose my shit.


----------



## budda (Jan 6, 2022)

Not just that, "perfect" guitars stop being so as soon as taste changes.

I have my perfect guitar - I spec'd it. I also never really play it because what I like has changed in the 11 years since I spec'd it and I've bought others. It's still a good guitar that does what it was built to do. I just do less of that.


----------



## Schweick (Jan 6, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Custom guitars are overrated. There is no *perfect* guitar. We will always want different flavours.



Well, yes and no.

If you're going the Kiesel route, that is you're basically specc'ing out what's essentially a production tier guitar with a lot of exspensive appointments, then yes, you're more or less putting yourself in a position to get fleeced.

If, on the other had, you're taking full advantage of the customization process, i.e., you're specc'ing out something that has no production line equivalent, then more power to you.

In my case, I was looking for a six-string baritone with a bare minimum of a 27" scale and passives. Knowing I didn't want anything MII, my options, as dictated to me by Reverb, were quite slim. In fact, it was either a Schecter bass VI or an ESP MIJ Viper. Then, I saw that someone had posted a full custom baritone for sale more in line with what I wanted both in terms of quality (MIA) and specs, 27" scale and passives. So I gambled, and, in this case, won big time.

Moral of the story? If you're going to go full custom, go second hand, and save yourself months of nail biting and second guessing yourself.


----------



## Edika (Jan 6, 2022)

Aesthetics aside, if the guitar sounds and plays great then don't sweat it. Taste changes and in the end it's sound, playbillity and inspiration you get from playing the guitar. I've had prety guitars that were uninspiring. If you can't get over the looks then trade or sell the guitar with something you'll be happy with.


----------



## laxu (Jan 6, 2022)

Schweick said:


> Well, yes and no.
> 
> If you're going the Kiesel route, that is you're basically specc'ing out what's essentially a production tier guitar with a lot of exspensive appointments, then yes, you're more or less putting yourself in a position to get fleeced.
> 
> If, on the other had, you're taking full advantage of the customization process, i.e., you're specc'ing out something that has no production line equivalent, then more power to you.



The mistake many make is that because the options are there, they try to cram in every option and end up with something that is not what they needed.

With custom guitars it's often best to only go that route if you are looking for something you can't get in a production model with small mods. A unique body shape, set of specs or finish for example. But if you just want say a superstrat then there's a lot of great production line options to go through before ending up at the custom shop stuff.

I own 3 custom grade guitars. A Heatley Tradition which is like a Les Paul but better because there were no Gibsons worth buying in my country used or new. Bought it used. I ordered a Kiesel Aries AM7 because at the time the options for 7-string multiscales were slim with 1+ year leading times. I ordered a Skervesen Shoggie 8 for the same reasons after trying to get by with a Strandberg Boden OS 8 LE which turned out to be complete shit. The Shoggie took a year to get but is so, so much better.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 6, 2022)

Just figured I would put this out there for whatever it may be worth... If anybody happens to see that first guitar pop up for sale anywhere in the future, and if they have it in their heart to do so, I would be eternally grateful if they would let me know. Again, just figured it wouldn't hurt to throw this out there.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 7, 2022)

budda said:


> Not just that, "perfect" guitars stop being so as soon as taste changes.
> 
> I have my perfect guitar - I spec'd it. I also never really play it because what I like has changed in the 11 years since I spec'd it and I've bought others. It's still a good guitar that does what it was built to do. I just do less of that.



People need to realize even if you think a guitar is your "perfect" guitar right now, your tastes will 100% change. I ordered an insane Aristides in 2019, with my absolute fav finish at the time, Arctic sunset sparkle, and while the guitar is a beast, my tastes have changed. I realized while the sparkle is amazing, its a guitar that requires to be in a very specific light angle for the sparkle to be seen at all, otherwise its just a basic white guitar, for an insane price point on that finish. I also stupidly ordered SSS pickups, when I know I'm a humbucker guy, but I thought I could get tones from stacked singles to satisfy me (It's about 90% there). And despite that, I just ordered a new Aristides that is my "perfect humbucker 6 string" right now haha so I understand fully how easy it is to fall into this trap, but this time around I know that I'm only doing it because I'm in a great position financially to do it, but I definitely anticipate wanting a new "perfect" guitar in 2-3 years, thats just how it goes.. I'm probably buying a house next year or so I won't have the cash flow to make this decision in the future, so I did it now while I can (which is still kinda a bad idea).

But custom guitars with figured tops are the biggest gamble for people being dissatisfied.. I ordered a Kiesel bass on black friday, and to get the free chambered body deal, I ordered a cheaper top (zebrawood) because I rather save a bit of money than spending $500 on burl or quilted or something and be disappointed. Honestly, I'm going into this build with the idea that if I really dont like the figuring of the top, I'd be fine painting over it a solid color, just to have the chambering - but if I like it, that's just a bonus at this point.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine (Jan 7, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> By that logic he shouldn't have ordered one in the first place. But I can assure you that if I found pickup rings in my custom order after a 2-year wait I'd definetely lose my shit.


And if you’re choosing to wait for two years for a bland, mediocre, shoddy Kiesel given the company’s reputation, then you’re off your rocker.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 7, 2022)

SnowfaLL said:


> People need to realize even if you think a guitar is your "perfect" guitar right now, your tastes will 100% change. I ordered an insane Aristides in 2019, with my absolute fav finish at the time, Arctic sunset sparkle, and while the guitar is a beast, my tastes have changed. I realized while the sparkle is amazing, its a guitar that requires to be in a very specific light angle for the sparkle to be seen at all, otherwise its just a basic white guitar, for an insane price point on that finish. I also stupidly ordered SSS pickups, when I know I'm a humbucker guy, but I thought I could get tones from stacked singles to satisfy me (It's about 90% there). And despite that, I just ordered a new Aristides that is my "perfect humbucker 6 string" right now haha so I understand fully how easy it is to fall into this trap, but this time around I know that I'm only doing it because I'm in a great position financially to do it, but I definitely anticipate wanting a new "perfect" guitar in 2-3 years, thats just how it goes.. I'm probably buying a house next year or so I won't have the cash flow to make this decision in the future, so I did it now while I can (which is still kinda a bad idea).
> 
> But custom guitars with figured tops are the biggest gamble for people being dissatisfied.. I ordered a Kiesel bass on black friday, and to get the free chambered body deal, I ordered a cheaper top (zebrawood) because I rather save a bit of money than spending $500 on burl or quilted or something and be disappointed. Honestly, I'm going into this build with the idea that if I really dont like the figuring of the top, I'd be fine painting over it a solid color, just to have the chambering - but if I like it, that's just a bonus at this point.




If your tastes change every three years, then yeah, you will never find a "perfect" guitar 
It's not just that our tastes change, it's that we like to try different things. Otherwise we wouldn't buy more guitars, amps, pedals... 

I don't see myself buying a bunch of Gibsons and Fenders and turning into a blues dad anytime soon. Not only I love the same kind of guitars I always have, but also like the amps that I always did.



Emperor Guillotine said:


> And if you’re choosing to wait for two years for a bland, mediocre, shoddy Kiesel given the company’s reputation, then you’re off your rocker.




Well, we all know that 1st step of a red flag is to blatantly ignore it


----------



## budda (Jan 7, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> If your tastes change every three years, then yeah, you will never find a "perfect" guitar
> It's not just that our tastes change, it's that we like to try different things. Otherwise we wouldn't buy more guitars, amps, pedals...
> 
> I don't see myself buying a bunch of Gibsons and Fenders and turning into a blues dad anytime soon. Not only I love the same kind of guitars I always have, but also like the amps that I always did.



Give it a minute


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 7, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> If your tastes change every three years, then yeah, you will never find a "perfect" guitar
> It's not just that our tastes change, it's that we like to try different things. Otherwise we wouldn't buy more guitars, amps, pedals...
> 
> I don't see myself buying a bunch of Gibsons and Fenders and turning into a blues dad anytime soon. Not only I love the same kind of guitars I always have, but also like the amps that I always did.
> ...



oddly enough, I've become really into Telecasters since 2020. Like, I had zero interest in them while I was younger, thought they felt and looked stupid, but now I almost want exclusively teles for my 6 strings (between an Aristides T/0 and a warmoth build). I used to love the pointys/RG guitars, but now I lean towards a bit more "modern classics" like neckthru teles or PRS/Kiesel type doublecuts.

I'll never be a blues fucker though.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 10, 2022)

Does anybody know if Kiesel does refinishes, or know of anybody who has gone that route? Been thinking of getting it refinished sort of like this:


----------



## AltecGreen (Jan 10, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Does anybody know if Kiesel does refinishes, or know of anybody who has gone that route? Been thinking of getting it refinished sort of like this:
> View attachment 101898



If Kiesel are not paying for the refin, why go to Kiesel. I'd go with someone else.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 10, 2022)

AltecGreen said:


> If Kiesel are not paying for the refin



Well, i've been thinking that I might inquire to see if they will do it for free, or at least a reduced cost. If they are not willing to do so, I will go another route.


----------



## JimF (Jan 11, 2022)

Definitely worth a phone call to ask. Just need to stress that the more you've looked at it and the more you've spent time with it, the more you have realised that the guitar you received was not the guitar you paid for.


----------



## Fader (Jan 17, 2022)

Like I said earlier, the quality at kiesel is not consistent. Jeff himself is a mentally unstable guy who does not appreciate a good customer. Being in business a long time, I would always do whatever it takes to make a customer happy. Especially if they have bought a lot of stuff from me. Jeff, not a good businessman. Bring back his Dad and Carvin. Whatev!


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 17, 2022)

Fader said:


> guy who does not appreciate a good customer.



Based on the things that I have observed and read, this absolutely _must_ be true. It cannot be spun any other way. I would even go as far as to say that Jeff most likely fully takes for granted his lifestyle and the position he was born into. All of the people they have chased away, who have bought multiple guitars from them and have admitted to having plans for more in the future... I mean, it's just insane how they treat their customers. They could be making so much more money if they could only swallow their pride for a moment and put in the tiny bit of effort and money that is required to make your loyal customers happy and fixing whatever issues they have, because they'll be back again and again _spending thousands of dollars at a time_. It's so logical, but oftentimes the ego gets in the way of logic and reasoning.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 17, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> fully takes for granted his lifestyle and the position he was born into. .


It's very likely the case. There are a load of studies done on how people treat money and a business that is handed down to them, as opposed to grown up by them. Obviously there are a lot of exceptions to this, and but it's definitely a thing.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 17, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> It's very likely the case. There are a load of studies done on how people treat money and a business that is handed down to them, as opposed to grown up by them. Obviously there are a lot of exceptions to this, and but it's definitely a thing.



_One_ thing in particular that gives me that impression, is that he has insulted customers based on their income status before... To say that's "petty" would be an understatement. Obviously, that's not something that someone with any experience in the "real world" would do. They would know better.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 19, 2022)

DudeManBrother said:


> Send your sales guy an email and ask them to help make it right with a refinish.



By the way... I did ask about this, but they say they are too busy. I suppose I will probably do it myself or I will find someone else to do it. After examining my top closely, I am pretty sure that the top was simply sanded _too much_. If I'm wrong about that, then whatever, but that's what I currently believe went wrong. If it cannot be transformed into a proper denim finish (due to some other factor), then I'll just do a different type of finish entirely.


----------



## MetalDaze (Jan 19, 2022)

In my experience, any version of trans blue ends up looking different in pictures than in person.

I remember buying a Jackson Soloist with a trans blue flame top. It looked awesome in the dealer pictures - super bright and figured. In person, it was way darker and you couldn't see the grain as much.

Same thing with another guitar where the picture looked like a deep blue, but in person it was definitely aqua. I haven't had the same issue with red or natural guitars.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Jan 19, 2022)

Fader said:


> Like I said earlier, the quality at kiesel is not consistent. Jeff himself is a mentally unstable guy who does not appreciate a good customer. Being in business a long time, I would always do whatever it takes to make a customer happy. Especially if they have bought a lot of stuff from me. Jeff, not a good businessman. Bring back his Dad and Carvin. Whatev!


Make Kiesel Carvin again!


----------



## Mboogie7 (Jan 19, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> _One_ thing in particular that gives me that impression, is that he has insulted customers based on their income status before... To say that's "petty" would be an understatement. Obviously, that's not something that someone with any experience in the "real world" would do. They would know better.



Didn’t he rip into a customer last year who had bought like 20 guitars previously, due to said customers complaint about a roasted maple neck or fretboard? If I remember correctly, he did it on one of his livestreams and the customers brother had just died (which was noted at some point by said customer).

he later came out with a “sincere” apology, but honesty fuck that guy.

after that fuck up, he’ll never get a cent from me.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Jan 19, 2022)

Mboogie7 said:


> Didn’t he rip into a customer last year who had bought like 20 guitars previously, due to said customers complaint about a roasted maple neck or fretboard? If I remember correctly, he did it on one of his livestreams and the customers brother had just died (which was noted at some point by said customer).
> 
> he later came out with a “sincere” apology, but honesty fuck that guy.
> 
> after that fuck up, he’ll never get a cent from me.


Yes, yes he did. He also flexed and made some reference to being a man.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jan 19, 2022)

Custom shops are a lot of work.


----------



## AltecGreen (Jan 19, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> By the way... I did ask about this, but they say they are too busy. I suppose I will probably do it myself or I will find someone else to do it. After examining my top closely, I am pretty sure that the top was simply sanded _too much_. If I'm wrong about that, then whatever, but that's what I currently believe went wrong. If it cannot be transformed into a proper denim finish (due to some other factor), then I'll just do a different type of finish entirely.


If you are going to get it refinished. Shop around and ask questions. Easy to get burned on that front too.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 19, 2022)

AltecGreen said:


> If you are going to get it refinished. Shop around and ask questions. Easy to get burned on that front too.



I will most likely end up doing it myself in order to save money (and add mojo). Not to toot my own horn, but I am pretty handy with things like this (so I've been told at least) and I am confident that I will be able to do it, so long as I do _thorough_ research, acquire the appropriate tools, and take my time. I will certainly be practicing on sample pieces of wood as well, if I do indeed end up doing it myself. I've already been watching a lot of videos and reading forum posts on staining figured woods and whatnot. Pretty sure I can tackle it. I enjoy projects anyway. Like this project of mine. I even upholstered the seat myself. Never done it before, actually turned out pretty decent thankfully. So, I'm kind of looking at this as an opportunity to dive into something new and possibly quite rewarding. We'll see!


----------



## Mboogie7 (Jan 19, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Yes, yes he did. He also flexed and made some reference to being a man.



ohh that’s right! What a fuck boy, and I have a 0 tolerance policy for fuck boys.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 21, 2022)

Going to be doing some Photoshop mockups to decide what kind of finish I'm going to do. Here's the photo I'm going to be using if anyone would like to have a look and see just how criminally bad the original stain job is (the fretboard looks quite a bit nicer since I have oiled it with some high quality all natural fretboard oil):




I still wonder whether or not this wasn't a subtle "f*ck you" from Mr. Jeff Kiesel, though they posted pictures of it on their Facebook (albeit, with some photo modification), so who knows...


----------



## Hoss632 (Jan 21, 2022)

Not reading through all 5 pages. Just based on the initial post, I can see where you might be disappointed with the color of the guitar, but the pic you showed for the first build is highly edited vs the pic of your actual guitar. So who's to say that the 2 aren't fairly close in color in person. As far as the royal ebony board figuring, that's just a luck of the draw type of thing. Unless you specifically ask for a fretboard to look like one and you showed them a pic of it so they could try to match it as best as possible, then yeah I can totally understand. As far as Kiesel refinishing the guitar for free, I doubt that'll happen, I'm fairly certain denim finishes are a non-returnable option. All that aside I am sorry that you aren't 100% happy with it as 3 grand is a lot of money for sure.


----------



## l19l91l (Jan 21, 2022)

Damn, sorry to hear that happened. I would def refinish that but I'm not a huge fan of denim finishes in general. If other people like it you could always try to sell it and get something else. It looks like they really rushed it on the rebuild. Having said that I hope it's awesome to play and you can at least enjoy it as an instrument. The fretboard looks nice in the latest photo. 

I wanted to get a top wood on my first build but they were kinda expensive and vary so much in the pictures I've seen. Same with the fretboards. Sometimes I see one that really feels like it was meant to be with the guitar build and someone it's like "this is what we had." I think in the future for any guitars with tops I will buy them used just so I can see them before I buy. 

I feel like Kiesel should allow customers who spend more than X dollars to be able to add a note or something in the build process to describe what they would prefer. What you see in your head, or more recently on the builder, and what you get could be way different. This way folks who get cheaper builds with solid colors and stuff can get sorted quickly and the folks dishing out $3k can at least say "Hey I'd like a top wood with more of this." 

Not to rant myself but their prices going up this year has also been concerning. I used to think they were cool because they were a more affordable option but they are becoming closer in price to other builders when you change body/top woods, custom paint jobs etc. Before I only really considered Kiesel for the price but now I'm looking at other options considering other builders have a better dialogue and better transparency in the build process.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 22, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> Not reading through all 5 pages. Just based on the initial post, I can see where you might be disappointed with the color of the guitar, but the pic you showed for the first build is highly edited vs the pic of your actual guitar. So who's to say that the 2 aren't fairly close in color in person.



I think this was discussed on page 2, and I even shared a similar photo that Kiesel shared on Facebook of the guitar received with a similar photo treatment. I understand where you're coming from but photo manipulation is definitely not a factor in this case.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 22, 2022)

l19l91l said:


> I would def refinish that but I'm not a huge fan of denim finishes in general.



Yeah, they seem to be pretty polarizing. I'm currently thinking of doing a charcoal burst similar to the one in this (while leaving the back and sides natural black limba), if not just blue again, but much nicer like this one. Also going to go gloss this time around, I think.



l19l91l said:


> Having said that I hope it's awesome to play and you can at least enjoy it as an instrument. The fretboard looks nice in the latest photo.



By far the nicest electric guitar I've played! Very happy with it in that regard. And thanks, oiling the fretboard a little bit made me feel much better about it. Breathed a bit more life into it. It's a little bit darker in person. It seems to be catching a little bit of glare from the overhead room light in the photo I posted.


----------



## Hoss632 (Jan 22, 2022)

l19l91l said:


> Damn, sorry to hear that happened. I would def refinish that but I'm not a huge fan of denim finishes in general. If other people like it you could always try to sell it and get something else. It looks like they really rushed it on the rebuild. Having said that I hope it's awesome to play and you can at least enjoy it as an instrument. The fretboard looks nice in the latest photo.
> 
> I wanted to get a top wood on my first build but they were kinda expensive and vary so much in the pictures I've seen. Same with the fretboards. Sometimes I see one that really feels like it was meant to be with the guitar build and someone it's like "this is what we had." I think in the future for any guitars with tops I will buy them used just so I can see them before I buy.
> 
> ...


Kiesel does do something to what you are talking about. if you send pictures of say a fretboard or a top wood grain pattern that you really like to your salesman, they will make a note so that they can try to match it as best they can with a piece they have. Unfortunately PRS might be the only builder that offers the opportunity to actually allow the customer to hand pic every piece of wood for their build (it's an option for those purchasing a Private stock guitar). Price wise Kiesel for the most part is still fairly cheap compared to other custom shops. But there are a few other small builders that I personally would love to work with like Valenti. Luigi is an awesome person and every build I've seen of his is flawless.


----------



## Hoss632 (Jan 22, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> I think this was discussed on page 2, and I even shared a similar photo that Kiesel shared on Facebook of the guitar received with a similar photo treatment. I understand where you're coming from but photo manipulation is definitely not a factor in this case.


Gotcha I went back and saw what you are referencing, so my apologies on that. I should've read everything before hand. My own fault for being lazy.


----------



## LexMentis (Jan 22, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> Gotcha I went back and saw what you are referencing, so my apologies on that. I should've read everything before hand. My own fault for being lazy.



No sweat!


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 1, 2022)

AdenM said:


> That faded whale blue/trans blue denim slate does tend to have that look, unfortunately. I requested a similar finish on my LsL XT4 and was informed that it could end up looking grey when done over a quilt versus a flame, ultimately turned out okay though. Ended up selling it as it wasn't as inspiring an instrument to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy Smokes that came out awesome!! Well I’m totally biased but still that one was sick!


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> That looks super cool! Though, I can't tell what's chatoyance and what is window blinds reflection.


A winner for sure


----------



## LexMentis (Feb 20, 2022)

Is there any way for me to delete this thread? I got to looking at the guitar again, and while I still believe the other was far superior, this rebuild really isn't so bad at the end of the day. It has its own unique character. I think at the end of the day, Kiesel generally did me right and I don't want to denigrate them when it is undeserved. Sure, they may have made mistakes in the past, but I don't think this is one of those situations. I think I was just beginning to really overthink it. I've been in a really strange mindset lately. I'd rather this just be water under the bridge. I'm grateful for what I have.


----------



## budda (Feb 20, 2022)

Why delete it? A resolution doesnt require a thread delete.


----------



## CanserDYI (Feb 20, 2022)

budda said:


> Why delete it? A resolution doesnt require a thread delete.


I think they're trying to shield Jeff Kiesels reputation by deleting it.

Don't worry bud, he throws his reputation out weekly.


----------



## LexMentis (Feb 20, 2022)

budda said:


> Why delete it? A resolution doesnt require a thread delete.


Eh.... I was just starting to kind of feel like a complainer. I don't know. Just having some mixed emotions about it. Shit, I'm probably overthinking this as well. Whatever. I'm in the middle of pulling an all nighter so I'm a little delirious.


----------



## LexMentis (Feb 20, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I think they're trying to shield Jeff Kiesels reputation by deleting it.



HA! Not exactly.


----------



## Darkscience (Feb 20, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> This is my first time posting on this board, so apologies if this is not the correct place to post this.
> 
> First off, I would like to make the caveat that I'm very pleased with the guitar I received in regards to the build quality and playability. I have never played a guitar that feels better than this one. I am mostly expressing disappointment in my own self and in my choices, although to be fair, there was no way I could have known that things would have turned out the way they did, as I will explain.
> 
> ...



Return the guitar if you can, it will forever haunt you. That being said, holy cow that first one looks insane to me, with experience I would have told you to take the initial refund because you would be rolling the dice and are likely never to see one like that again. That top on the first one is just insane.


----------



## LexMentis (Feb 20, 2022)

Darkscience said:


> Return the guitar if you can, it will forever haunt you. That being said, holy cow that first one looks insane to me, with experience I would have told you to take the initial refund because you would be rolling the dice and are likely never to see one like that again. That top on the first one is just insane.


Yeah, man. That one really is wild. This was my first time ever ordering a custom guitar, so I was totally green and naive I suppose you could say. Lesson learned. Though, I still think that if Kiesel just gave me a _little bit_ more of a persuasive nudge to accept it by perhaps explaining just how exceptional that top was and that I would be taking a risk with a rebuild, I probably would have accepted it. They did say that the top was really nice, but I didn't really understand at the time how unlikely it would be to get a rebuild with a top that nice as well. Wish they would have just showed me a picture of it at the time. I'm done obsessing about it now though. Tired of tortured myself over it. Maybe one day I'll pay to have a professional refinish it. I'm not concerned with "resale value".


----------



## Hollowway (Feb 20, 2022)

Don't delete the thread. The original complaint is a great resource for people considering asking for a particular stain job, or a matching of a photo. Glad to hear you're happier with it, though!


----------



## NoodleFace (Feb 20, 2022)

Agreed. I'd never go with a denim build myself but the thread has a lot of good info and back and forth and plenty of fuck Jeff kiesel


----------



## Musiscience (Feb 21, 2022)

Nothing to see here. Hit reply to see the pictures and hit post by mistake. Sorry about that.


----------



## NCASO96 (Feb 21, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Yeah, man. That one really is wild. This was my first time ever ordering a custom guitar, so I was totally green and naive I suppose you could say. Lesson learned. Though, I still think that if Kiesel just gave me a _little bit_ more of a persuasive nudge to accept it by perhaps explaining just how exceptional that top was and that I would be taking a risk with a rebuild, I probably would have accepted it. They did say that the top was really nice, but I didn't really understand at the time how unlikely it would be to get a rebuild with a top that nice as well. Wish they would have just showed me a picture of it at the time. I'm done obsessing about it now though. Tired of tortured myself over it. Maybe one day I'll pay to have a professional refinish it. I'm not concerned with "resale value".




I had an opportunity to get a $3k last year. it was an incredibly fun time.. but i made some mistakes and have some regrets.

I sold my YJM modified strat and a Killer ESP E-II... for a custom shop guitar.

I settled on a Charvel USA.. and I was underwhelmed with the finish (see below). The guitar played and sounded amazing, but
I was just underwhelmed for a $3k + guitar.

I expected this guitar to be alot brighter... in person the top was very dull


----------



## bloodocean (Feb 21, 2022)

E-II build quality, IMO, is on par with USA made. Some of the specs might be off, say stainless frets, or a veneer top instead of 1/4” or more, but I think you’re not buying a better made instrument past $2500 or so.


----------



## NCASO96 (Feb 21, 2022)

bloodocean said:


> E-II build quality, IMO, is on par with USA made. Some of the specs might be off, say stainless frets, or a veneer top instead of 1/4” or more, but I think you’re not buying a better made instrument past $2500 or so.



Totally agree. I wound up buying another E-II Eclipse. I just posted it in the ESP thread. For a "production" guitar the E-II is unmatched imo at that price point.

I had a Horizon a few years back, and although the neck profile wasn't for me, it was a tank of a guitar.

Most of the top brands hit a ceiling at the $1.5 mark, and then jump to $3k and above. The E-II fits in the middle. Unfortunately, the prices have jumped up $2-4 hundred dollars on some of the E-IIs. The exception maybe the new Jackson MJ line... they are really well made guitars.

Ibanez prestige are also made in Japan and great.


----------



## LexMentis (Feb 26, 2022)

Nick Castelluccio said:


> I had an opportunity to get a $3k last year. it was an incredibly fun time.. but i made some mistakes and have some regrets.
> 
> I sold my YJM modified strat and a Killer ESP E-II... for a custom shop guitar.
> 
> ...


Beautiful guitar! Although, I definitely understand being underwhelmed when it wasn't exactly what you wanted or envisioned. Sorry it didn't turn out quite the way you had hoped. It almost looks like a veneer top, but it's not is it?


----------



## Buffnuggler (Mar 7, 2022)

I don't really have any opinions on Kiesel as a brand but if I were you I would try to look on the bright side and appreciate the guitar as is. Stuff like this has a way of festering over time, you had a "bad vibe" early on with the mistake, and I feel like maybe there's a chance you let that bleed into the guitar itself. This is very common with custom builders who are rude to their customers or burn them in some way. They might deliver the guitar but the experience is soured.

If possible, I would ask yourself if the guitar really looks that bad, or if you've just been biased against it due to a bad experience, it sounds like you've thought a lot about it, when really you should just play the guitar and enjoy it. At the end of the day, if it plays good and sounds good, you got a good one, end of story. If you really need to refinish it to make it what you want, by all means go for it, but its more money and more time and the refin might not turn out exactly how you want anyway.

Look at the tops on the Ibanez 50th anniversary stuff that just came out, they blow J-Customs away but they are 3x the price.

That fact that you think they might've screwed up your guitar as a "fuck you" tells me you've probably obsessed over this a little too much, if you like the guitar it's a shame to let it be tainted by your experience. There's no reason to think your guitar would've looked like the picture, the top might've been worse with the first one, who knows? I would just let it go, do what you need to (sell it, refin it, or just enjoy it), and play the guitar if you love it.

If you do refin it, I would not do it yourself, if you want a super quality refin you will have to pay for it, a home job (unless its just an oil finish) is probably going to look worse than what you have.


----------



## electriceye (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm not going to say too much about this, because it's likely been said already, but ANY builder that refuses to send you pictures of the finished guitar before it's shipped is shady. I'm not at the level of building for customers yet, but I can't imagine myself not sending pictures to make sure both parties were happy with the result. Period. There's no valid excuse.


----------



## NCASO96 (Mar 7, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Beautiful guitar! Although, I definitely understand being underwhelmed when it wasn't exactly what you wanted or envisioned. Sorry it didn't turn out quite the way you had hoped. It almost looks like a veneer top, but it's not is it?



no, that's a quilt maple top.. a fantastic guitar... but nothing like the photos here.

https://charvel.com/gear/series/usa-select/usa-select-dk24-hss-2pt-cm-qm/2839413799

I've had my share regrets with guitar purchasing... just have to move on...


----------



## sneerim (Mar 9, 2022)

Nick Castelluccio said:


> no, that's a quilt maple top.. a fantastic guitar... but nothing like the photos here.
> 
> https://charvel.com/gear/series/usa-select/usa-select-dk24-hss-2pt-cm-qm/2839413799
> 
> I've had my share regrets with guitar purchasing... just have to move on...


The problem with Jackson/Charvel figured tops is that they don't usually do the multi-step stain finishes that make the figure really pop. It especially hurts on darker colors like yours where the extra contrast would be very helpful.


----------



## lost_horizon (Mar 10, 2022)

What i find interesting with people like Strandberg is there is a community who actively refinishes their guitars, even after dropping $3k. They order a flame top and if they don't like it they refinish it. I have redone multiple guitars and I'm always pleased with the result. Would love to have a top like yours to work with.

Does it sound good? Aesthetics are 100% aesthetics. If it sounds good and stays in tune, I would be happy. But if the finish was off and hated how it played I would probably be hyper focused and hating myself for it. I recently had a bass and the veneer was peeling so redid the headstock. Afterwards I said it plays exactly the same and lives in a studio so why did I waste all this time redoing the veneer and staining to match the body?


----------



## NCASO96 (Mar 11, 2022)

sneerim said:


> The problem with Jackson/Charvel figured tops is that they don't usually do the multi-step stain finishes that make the figure really pop. It especially hurts on darker colors like yours where the extra contrast would be very helpful.



Yes agreed. You would figure for $3.5k these extra steps were included... well maybe not this time.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 10, 2022)

Well, I went ahead and refinished it myself. I'm pretty happy with it: https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18174520729219919/


More pics:





I sanded a little too much on a few spots, but it's not too bad. I didn't really want to go for a "denim" finish this time around. At least it actually looks blue now!

Still needs to harden a while before I sand smooth and give it the final polish before reassembly. I used a gloss clear, but might scuff it to a satin finish if I end up not liking the gloss.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 10, 2022)

Still need to respray he Kiesel logo, which will not be a problem. I may not even spray it, but use another method that would be indistinguishable.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 11, 2022)

That doesn't look anything like the reference picture. Different knobs, no pickup rings, different color on the back, different color on the front. I'd send that shit back as soon as I got it.


----------



## narad (Sep 11, 2022)

Well you've got some real moxy to go ahead and refinish it yourself! I'm not sure the result was great, but the in progress photos show there was a lot of room for improvement over the Kiesel finish that I would probably not call blue at all for 50% of the top's surface area. It's definitely a nice blue now!


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 11, 2022)

narad said:


> It's definitely a nice blue now!


Yeah, it's definitely a step up from what I recieved. I'm actually not done. Going to quickly sand off the clear coat I put on, and reapply some more blue stain and mix it a little bit darker this time. It turned out kind baby blue for some reason (which is still cool). I want it to be a bit darker. No big deal. This will actually give me an opportunity to clean up a few little details that I've noticed since I've had some time to look at it. All part of the learning experience and I enjoy it. The end result will be awesome (in my opinion).



narad said:


> Well you've got some real moxy to go ahead and refinish it yourself!


HAHA Yeah, I know it was pretty ambitious, but I'm pretty meticulous in my research and in my work, so I was confident enough to give it a shot. I figured it couldn't end up much worse that what I already had. I'm also not concerned with "resale value" like some are.


----------



## Lord Voldemort (Sep 11, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Going to be doing some Photoshop mockups to decide what kind of finish I'm going to do. Here's the photo I'm going to be using if anyone would like to have a look and see just how criminally bad the original stain job is (the fretboard looks quite a bit nicer since I have oiled it with some high quality all natural fretboard oil):
> 
> View attachment 102271
> 
> ...



This...doesn't really look that bad dude. It's a faded denim finish over a quilt top, which is notoriously dicey. It ultimately looks like just that, though, a faded denim finish over a quilt top. The original had a slightly brighter, more intense blue and perhaps a hair less fade I suppose?

The first guitar was a little more handsome but imo you and the majority of this thread is super overreacting, and that's not because I like Kiesel (which I do admittedly), it's just really not that bad of a finish at all compared to other blue denims over quilt. FD over flame is always better, not trying to be captain hindsight but that was just a bad call dude.

I will say that everyone saying that if Jeff was less of a dick he'd get more business while they're like 6 months backed up with 1300+ orders on deck is hilarious because I'm a Kiesel fan, though. 

Edit: I do see now that you're less salty and stuff, but at the time you were pretty damn unhappy.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 11, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> I'm also not concerned with "resale value" like some are.


Obviously, you wouldn't have purchased a Kiesel if you wanted resale value.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 11, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Obviously, you wouldn't have purchased a Kiesel if you wanted resale value.


Well, apparently they do pretty well on the used market. I mean, you won't be getting back exactly what you paid for it, but still...


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 12, 2022)

Okay, those last pics were just practice! 

Here's the real final product:











Soooooo glad I listened to my gut and redid this. I got the blue mixed exactly how I envisioned it. Couldn't be more stoked. So, there's the happy ending to this story.


----------



## Slide187 (Sep 12, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Well, I went ahead and refinished it myself. I'm pretty happy with it: https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18174520729219919/
> 
> 
> More pics:
> ...



Yowza dude!! It does look a lot better but to home custom customize your expensive custom guitar is… it’s the same feeling I get at the top of a tall building with no railings I guess Hahha. 

Takes some nutz, but you did well. 

I was just looking at their guitar builder on their site yesterday. Some really sexy woods but that’s the gamble, right? Esp if you don’t go with a solid color. That roasted flame maple too they have on the site is frikkin GAWWWJISSS, but you KNOW they show the best possible cut. It’s like that with my Ibanez S1520 Prestige with a Figured bubinga top. I got lucky cuz I saw the one I was buying, but wood like that is a crap shoot with or without a stain I think.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 12, 2022)

You fuckin madlad. Good on you.


----------



## mbardu (Sep 12, 2022)

I really love the new blue you got there.
Must have been harrowing, but it sounds like you're happy with the result as well.

Definitely doesn't look like "denim" blue IMO (which usually means satin/washed out/grey-ish)- here instead being a deeper blue not sanded back as much, which anyway is a much better fit for quilt in general.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 12, 2022)

Slide187 said:


> Yowza dude!! It does look a lot better but to home custom customize your expensive custom guitar is… it’s the same feeling I get at the top of a tall building with no railings I guess Hahha.
> 
> Takes some nutz, but you did well.


Thanks, man! I don't know if you noticed, but I actually postedsome updated pictures. Those pics are actually from the first attempt, and I just now redid it again, haha!



Slide187 said:


> I was just looking at their guitar builder on their site yesterday. Some really sexy woods but that’s the gamble, right?



Yeah, it can be, but Kiesel does allow you to photo match a top for an additional price, from what I understand. That way they can pick out a top that is as close as possible to what you are looking for.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 12, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Definitely doesn't look like "denim" blue IMO (which usually means satin/washed out/grey-ish)- here instead being a deeper blue not sanded back as much, which anyway is a much better fit for quilt in general.


Exactly. I didn't want to go quite denim this time around. I did sand it back, but only a little bit to get some highlights. #0000 steel wool also really helped bring out some highlights in the quilt.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Sep 12, 2022)

Slide187 said:


> Yowza dude!! It does look a lot better but to home custom customize your expensive custom guitar is… it’s the same feeling I get at the top of a tall building with no railings I guess Hahha.
> 
> Takes some nutz, but you did well.
> 
> I was just looking at their guitar builder on their site yesterday. Some really sexy woods but that’s the gamble, right? Esp if you don’t go with a solid color. That roasted flame maple too they have on the site is frikkin GAWWWJISSS, but you KNOW they show the best possible cut. It’s like that with my Ibanez S1520 Prestige with a Figured bubinga top. I got lucky cuz I saw the one I was buying, but wood like that is a crap shoot with or without a stain I think.


Yes, figured tops vary a lot and the manufacturers will always show images of the best (nicest, not most representative) example they can.

I absolutely love the tops on my S2170SE (swirled ebony) and RG8520 (flamed maple), but I new exactly what I was buying. I've seen numerous examples of the same models that I would have been pretty disappointed with.
The flamed maple top on my RGA321F is underwhelming (figuring doesn't "pop") and that seems to be pretty standard for that model with the blue finish, despite there being photos of some beautiful examples online. My guess is that staining steps were skipped to keep the production cost down, as Prestige RGAs were always very competitively priced. I knew what I was buying before I ordered it (used) and paid a fair price, so can have no complaints - especially as the playability and tone are great.


----------



## Slide187 (Sep 12, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Thanks, man! I don't know if you noticed, but I actually postedsome updated pictures. Those pics are actually from the first attempt, and I just now redid it again, haha!



Yeah i saw them... looks MUCH better. Glad you've made something like this better for your peace of mind. Nothing like some buyer's remorse to bring out the ingenuity of a guitar player hahaha! 

You've also motivated me to get back to finishing the Schecter Reaper7 Multiscale i just bought and gutted because i HATED the pups. I had Pete from Vintage Vibe make me some new ones and he matched the sizes and even the look of them almost exactly... Pretty awesome, but i got busy with work and haven't had the time to finish it.

I used it right out of the box to record some of the new material i have forthcoming, and after running that guitar thru my setup i had to completely re-track all of the rhythms with my UV7BK. That made me mad enuff to overhaul a brandy new $1k guitar, and yes even tho it's just the electronics, i got that same 'top of the building' feeling when i started.

But good luck with it, enjoy! and may your Custom Kiesel produce many custom Kegels for you! hey-oooohhhhhh!!


----------



## dspellman (Sep 13, 2022)

I've got seven Carvins at this point (all pre-Jeff) and I'm pleased with all of them. The last one I ordered custom, and it's spectacular, but there was a small glitch. 

I've learned, with custom orders, to do the very best that you can articulating exactly what you want. Communicate that vision. And then sit back, relax, and be prepared for something else to appear. I have an Agile Custom that was ordered and specified via a lot of checkboxes and a phone call. I mistakenly checked BOTH a "neck-through construction" AND a single piece back on an LP style build. The phone call asked me if I wanted a solid figured maple top, and I requested "tight flame." 

The builders did a great job with the tight flame, but got creative with the neck-through construction (which usually requires a pair of "body sides" rather than a single piece back). They cut a channel all the way through that single piece back and laid the neck into it. The "single piece back" was a stupid choice on my part any way, because the guitar came with a Floyd, which chewed right through the back and neck. Ack. 

Back to Carvin. All of them play amazingly well. On the last one I ordered a mini switch to add the bridge pickup to the five-way pickup selector switch. The model ordinarily has a phase switch and that's how it arrived. It took about fifteen minutes to rewire the switch and done. Since then it's been an amazing guitar.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 15, 2022)

Reassembled in all her glory:


----------



## Yames_Kenric (Sep 16, 2022)

LexMantis, that's a very "validating" story. You weren't happy with something and challenged yourself to improve it and Sh*t Yeah!, you Nailed It. The guitar is gorgeous. I've read that the purpose of anger is to motivate action. You acted and clearly prevailed. Reading this, I thought you had a good chance of succeeding because of your work on the bike tank. I'd wreck that thing every time I looked down.


----------



## Omzig (Sep 16, 2022)

Rad  killin it dude, now just take some over filttered HDR pic's with it in your hands and post them on FB  great job.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 16, 2022)

Yames_Kenric said:


> LexMantis, that's a very "validating" story. You weren't happy with something and challenged yourself to improve it and Sh*t Yeah!, you Nailed It. The guitar is gorgeous. I've read that the purpose of anger is to motivate action. You acted and clearly prevailed. Reading this, I thought you had a good chance of succeeding because of your work on the bike tank. I'd wreck that thing every time I looked down.


Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it. Hopefully this will even show others that it's not impossible if anyone else ever wanted to try their hand at it. It takes some efffort and some studying (so much information for free online), but it's not impossible.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 16, 2022)

Yames_Kenric said:


> Reading this, I thought you had a good chance of succeeding because of your work on the bike tank. I'd wreck that thing every time I looked down.


Thanks a lot for saying this! By the way, I have since redid that gas tank. Turned out much better than the first go around. Here it is if you're interested: 



I was pretty proud of it. Here's another one that's in progress:



That's just the base layer. Going to be doing something over top of that. Just figured I'd share.


----------



## Slide187 (Sep 26, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Reassembled in all her glory:



now that guitar is _dead_ sexy. great jobby-job!!!


----------



## SeventyFour (Sep 28, 2022)

You've done an absolutely incredible job refinishing that!


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 29, 2022)

Slide187 said:


> now that guitar is _dead_ sexy. great jobby-job!!!


Thank you!


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 29, 2022)

SeventyFour said:


> You've done an absolutely incredible job refinishing that!


Thanks so much! I'm so glad I went ahead with it.


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 29, 2022)

Here's one last photo of the finished product. It's even got the logo back on now. The previous shot had a stupid filter on it, so it's not a good representation of the color.


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 29, 2022)

Holyshit! That’s crazy! You could open a shop for refinishing Kiesels. Forget a “hand finished by Jeff,” cuz I want a “hand finished by Lex” lol.

It really does look great, and I can’t believe you have the cojones big enough to do this, but it’s awesome that you do.


----------



## olejason (Sep 29, 2022)

That looks great, love the stripey ebony board too


----------



## Hoss632 (Sep 30, 2022)

I'd say the refinish looks better. Even better than their blue denim, which I'm not really a fan of Kiesel's denim finishes. Yours much more closely reminds me of faded whale blue from PRS which on quilt tops like yours is a nice finish. I'm glad you got it exactly how you wanted now and enjoy it


----------



## LexMentis (Sep 30, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> I'd say the refinish looks better. Even better than their blue denim, which I'm not really a fan of Kiesel's denim finishes. Yours much more closely reminds me of faded whale blue from PRS which on quilt tops like yours is a nice finish. I'm glad you got it exactly how you wanted now and enjoy it


Much appreciated! Very kind words.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Sep 30, 2022)

I agr


Hoss632 said:


> I'd say the refinish looks better. Even better than their blue denim, which I'm not really a fan of Kiesel's denim finishes. Yours much more closely reminds me of faded whale blue from PRS which on quilt tops like yours is a nice finish. I'm glad you got it exactly how you wanted now and enjoy it


I agree that the refinish isn't "denim blue" (by any guitar manufacturer's definition) - it's a bolder blue, which I much prefer (3 of my 9 guitars are a deep blue).


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 30, 2022)

Im still baffled, BAFFLED, that this story had a good ending. A great ending.

I was CERTAIN, this guitar would either end up on reverb or a fucking dumpster fire. Good on you @LexMentis I keep coming back to look at it, it actually looks better than the original with pickup rings, in my opinion!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 30, 2022)

Went from looking like soggy diarrhea in a toilet bowl with that blue dye shit people use in their tanks to a lush ocean of blue.


----------



## AMOS (Sep 30, 2022)

Is it returnable?


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 30, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Is it returnable?


 not at this point.


----------



## budda (Sep 30, 2022)

Looks like prs whale blue and im for it.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 30, 2022)

This must be the only custom shop horror story thread with a happy ending.

I wouldn't have put the logo back on, personally. Even better would be to make one of your own name using the Kiesel font/styling.


----------



## dmlinger (Sep 30, 2022)

Congrats man, that really does look great. Well done


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Sep 30, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> not at this point.


The resale value has surely increased since the refinish though (but will still be lower than the purchase price).


----------



## nightlight (Sep 30, 2022)

That's an amazing job on the refinish, man. Good job, I bet the guitar "sounds" better to you now too.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Sep 30, 2022)

Sick refin. Great job.


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 2, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> This must be the only custom shop horror story thread with a happy ending.
> 
> I wouldn't have put the logo back on, personally. Even better would be to make one of your own name using the Kiesel font/styling.



HAHA Yeah, I've been contemplating that a bit haha. We'll see what happens.... Thanks for the comment!


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 2, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Im still baffled, BAFFLED, that this story had a good ending. A great ending.
> 
> I was CERTAIN, this guitar would either end up on reverb or a fucking dumpster fire. Good on you @LexMentis I keep coming back to look at it, it actually looks better than the original with pickup rings, in my opinion!


 Thank you!!


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 2, 2022)

budda said:


> Looks like prs whale blue and im for it.


I was sorta aiming for that I suppose. I used a lot of PRS guitars as reference/inspiration, but I didn't know it had a name. I'll take it!


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 3, 2022)

Interestingly, Jeff sent an email to all of his team saying, "His HH2 build - am I wrong to be a little disappointed (that his finish looks better than ours)?"


----------



## Voodoo Marshall (Oct 3, 2022)

First, sorry that happened, man. Totally shitty. Second, you couldn't pay me to enter the Kiesel torture chamber.


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 3, 2022)

Voodoo Marshall said:


> First, sorry that happened, man. Totally shitty. Second, you couldn't pay me to enter the Kiesel torture chamber.


Yep. It's one and done for me. Kiesel would make so much more money were they not so socially inept. Before all this trouble, I had plans for multiple different builds I had in mind with all kinds of cool specs. There's no telling how many thousands they've thrown away just by being the assholes that they are, and how they've treated repeat customers. It trickles down into every aspect of their business.

I had a brief exchange the other day with Albert, their head tech, and that guy is a piece of work too. He's absolutely useless. My experience with him was perfectly in line with other stories I've read here as well. I emailed him about an electronics issue (a wire to the neck pickup came loose at some point during refinish causing loss of sound to neck pickup), so I politely requested a wiring diagram for the HH2 so that I could solder the loose wire back in place. He completely ignored this request and instead asked me to take photos of the electronics cavity and then he would tell me where the wire goes. OK... Seems like that is more work for me AND you, but whatever. I sent him the photo, and he replies back telling me where the wire goes, and I solder it back in place. However, this does not solve the issue. I again politely request a wiring diagram so that I can double check everything _on my own _to fix the problem. Again, I am also trying to save _him_ from having to do anything (God forbid). He just completely ignores me again. I replied back a day later saying "well, thanks anyway!" These guys just truly do not give a fuck. At all.

Kiesel just sucks all around. Great product. Trash people.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 3, 2022)

Voodoo Marshall said:


> First, sorry that happened, man. Totally shitty. Second,* you couldn't pay me to enter the Kiesel torture chamber*.


The inconsistent experiences that I've read about on forums, such as what @LexMentis went through, have completely put me off the idea of one day buying a custom guitar. Kiesel, Mayones and plenty of other manufacturers make really beautiful guitars, but you never know quite what you're getting until it's in your hands.

Fortunately for me, I'm content with the specs of production MIJ Ibanez models (other than pickups, which are cheap and easy to change), so a custom would be purely about choosing my own unique aesthetics. The right Sugi J. Custom would probably be a much better option for me than going custom, if I can ever bring myself to spend that much on a guitar (a "production" J. Custom RG8570 is my most expensive guitar atm).


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 3, 2022)

Stellar job on the refinish, looks awesome. That sanded back blue finish is so hard to get right and you knocked it out of the park.


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 3, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> The inconsistent experiences that I've read about on forums, such as what @LexMentis went through, have completely put me off the idea of one day buying a custom guitar. Kiesel, Mayones and plenty of other manufacturers make really beautiful guitars, but you never know quite what you're getting until it's in your hands.
> 
> Fortunately for me, I'm content with the specs of production MIJ Ibanez models (other than pickups, which are cheap and easy to change), so a custom would be purely about choosing my own unique aesthetics. The right Sugi J. Custom would probably be a much better option for me than going custom, if I can ever bring myself to spend that much on a guitar (a "production" J. Custom RG8570 is my most expensive guitar atm).


Although I have no experience with any other company, I'd wager that you'd have far less to worry about with other builders like Mayones, Aristedis, etc.... Kiesel just has a mind bogglingly toxic attitude toward their customers.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 3, 2022)

My experience with Chris Hong went smoothly and was treated with utmost respect and he even bent over backwards a couple times to figure stuff out for me. This was mid covid explosion too in late 2020-early 2021. 

But, my experience with Albert was quite the same as @LexMentis, Albert is a great guitar player, not the greatest at customer service. I told him multiple times what the issue was (bad switch) and he demanded he send me one of their push pull pots to replace the one in mine. I just never emailed him back, cleaned the switch a bit and works great. A few weeks later I open my mail to a brand new Kiesel push pull pot,  oh well, I used it on my most recent build, thanks man.


----------



## zjb7777 (Oct 3, 2022)

Absolutely stunning job on the refinish! It's a real shame Kiesel couldn't get it right the first 2 times, but sometimes you just have to take things into your own hands. Looks 1000x better now in my opinion.

I've considered getting a Kiesel at some point, but man every time I research issues, there's just SO many issues with customer service and then getting stuff wrong and passing the buck. And I feel like I'd have such high expectations for the money being spent to be let down severely. 

Either way, great job with the project, I'm super glad it turned out the way you wanted!


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 3, 2022)

I think the only way I'd really get involved with a Kiesel now is a really simple, solid color, returnable build. Only way I'd feel mildly comfortable with it


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 3, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Although I have no experience with any other company, I'd wager that you'd have far less to worry about with other builders like Mayones, Aristedis, etc.... Kiesel just has a mind bogglingly toxic attitude toward their customers.



So much for "the customer is always right".


----------



## Voodoo Marshall (Oct 4, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Kiesel just sucks all around. Great product. Trash people


You can't have a great product if the people suck. Marketing and customer experience 101. All of the touch points for the product are through people and everything I've read seems to say they do not give one fuck about the people buying their products. There's no way that same attitude doesn't filter into the quality of their products, as your experience shows.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

Not to defend the shitty attitude from Jeff or the poor customer service I've heard stories of, but I still genuinely think there are WAY, WAY, WAY more happy Kiesel customers than sad ones. They put out tons and tons and tons of guitars, over 4000+ yearly. So yeah, you'll hear of some bad experiences. If you put out 4000 uniquely customized instruments, with each and every one having some little weird quirk that the owner just HAD to have (not hating on it, just pointing it out). Of COURSE there are going to be some fuck ups. I'm still willing to bet there are more Fender and Gibson horror stories per batch of the same size. 

So many people hating on this brand have literally never put one in their hands. They're very nice guitars, well built, completely made here in the USA at very attractive price points. It seems as long as you keep the guitar outside the realm of "Jesus christ what the fuck were you on when you spec'd that out", I think you'll have an okay time. EDIT: I don't want it misconstrued that I believe OP @LexMentis experience was good, or that he spec'd this guitar out like crazy, It was definitely rushed and that's no bueno.

That all being said, I think Jeff comes off as extremely douchey, but I didnt buy the guitar for Jeff's personality. I bought it because I loved the way it looked and was willing to try out the playability, and its easily my favorite guitar I've owned.

And apparently I'm a Kiesel fan boy now, never thought I'd be like defending them on a forum, but I genuinely think people blow this stuff out of proportion, and think we all should take a step back and reevaluate.


----------



## JimF (Oct 4, 2022)

I wouldn't say I'm a hater, if I saw one locally that I knew played fine I wouldn't hesitate, and I don't think there's some special production line where they make the guitars for Dean Lamb, Marc Okubo and Simon Sludge and other folks who have had good results etc.
Like you've said, it's a very vocal minority of very unlucky people.
My hesitation with ordering them, and being on the side of "I wouldn't risk it" would be around the whole "Aries bridges being maxed out and still fretting out" situation. I remember a few of those happening, and because they were antique ash finish or some other Opt. 50, Kiesel just refused to rectify. The customer would say "The bridge isn't right and the guitar doesn't function" and Kiesel replied "It's non-returnable sorry", repeat ad infinitum.
Especially with me being in the UK, if this was to happen it would be very easy for them to just decide, "screw this guy", and not deal with it. What am I going to do?


----------



## LexMentis (Oct 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I didnt buy the guitar for Jeff's personality.



Agreed, but the issue isn't Jeff's personality. I couldn't care less about that. It's the customer service one is likely to receive after the fact that is the issue.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

All I'm saying here is it seems 99% of their customers seem to have an enjoyable or at minimum transparent experience with the company, and doing a little math, even if they have 20 experiences like this a year, which I've been following the Kiesel forums and facebooks for a few years now and I'm thinking 20 is high, 20 experiences is 0.4% of their entire yearly output. I'd say thats actually realllllllllllly good. 

I just think you have this exact same risk buying from literally any other guitar company ever. Just my opinion.


----------



## JimF (Oct 4, 2022)

I think the issue is the fact that if you have a bad experience you've literally nowhere to turn, and you're stuck. Whereas if you end up with a 23 fret Jackson you'll at least have a dealer to fight your corner. Or a more willing customer service department.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

JimF said:


> I think the issue is the fact that if you have a bad experience you've literally nowhere to turn, and you're stuck. Whereas if you end up with a 23 fret Jackson you'll at least have a dealer to fight your corner. Or a more willing customer service department.


Well I dunno about that, they're pretty upfront with you about what is and what isn't returnable and most of the non returnable stuff (most) makes a lot of sense to me personally. And I've seen on many of occasion Kiesel still takes them back (unfortunately at the agreement of banning future sales from that customer but I'm not gonna open that can of worms). I dunno, I'm feeling kinda icky fighting for a large guitar company, frankly as I'm vehemently anti capitalist, but I just feel they get a lot of flack that other companies don't seem to get. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure.


----------



## JimF (Oct 4, 2022)

No, I totally see where you're coming from. I'm also playing devil's advocate - I don't have a dog in this fight. It was mainly the example of a guitar having been made without taking the non-recessed Hipshot bridge into account and Kiesel refusing to admit there was anything wrong with it (even though it was borderline unplayable with a sensible action) because it was specced with an Opt.50 finish. It would be like ordering a tailored suit to one's own particular measurements and then wanting to return it because one trouser leg ended mid-calf. Yes, its made to measure and non-returnable, no its not fit for purpose. Those two things should not affect each other. 
If you asked for an 8 string with a 23" scale and wondered why the sub standard pitch strings sounded off, then that's on you. But this isn't that.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 4, 2022)

JimF said:


> I wouldn't say I'm a hater, if I saw one locally that I knew played fine I wouldn't hesitate, and I don't think there's some special production line where they make the guitars for Dean Lamb, Marc Okubo and Simon Sludge and other folks who have had good results etc.
> Like you've said, it's a very vocal minority of very unlucky people.
> My hesitation with ordering them, and being on the side of "I wouldn't risk it" would be around the whole "Aries bridges being maxed out and still fretting out" situation. I remember a few of those happening, and because they were antique ash finish or some other Opt. 50, Kiesel just refused to rectify. The customer would say "The bridge isn't right and the guitar doesn't function" and Kiesel replied "It's non-returnable sorry", repeat ad infinitum.
> Especially with me being in the UK, if this was to happen it would be very easy for them to just decide, "screw this guy", and not deal with it. What am I going to do?


Assuming you pay by credit card (not bank transfer), you should have reasonable protection if it's easy to prove the fault with your purchase.


----------



## Slide187 (Oct 7, 2022)

LexMentis said:


> Although I have no experience with any other company, I'd wager that you'd have far less to worry about with other builders like Mayones, Aristedis, etc.... Kiesel just has a mind bogglingly toxic attitude toward their customers.



hahahaha omg... how tf does this dude even sell ONE guitar with that 'tude for these prices? I'll admit i had never heard of him before this thread even tho i HAD heard of Keisel guitars... but wow. I was half considering ordering one before this thread and your experience coupled with that vid... i've never had a Keisel and now i know i've never needed one. 

Never had a bad experience with Ibanez, ESP, PRS or Schecter, and i've needed customer service with each at least once.

Glad you made the best of it tho, sorry you had to go thru it all.


----------



## Slide187 (Oct 7, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> So much for "the customer is always right".


He's like Ben Affleck in Mallrats: "lemme tell ya somethin... The customer is always an asshole!!"


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 7, 2022)

Wait until you guys hear what the guys in the board room at Fender and Gibson and Ibanez think of you....


----------



## Slide187 (Oct 7, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Wait until you guys hear what the guys in the board room at Fender and Gibson and Ibanez think of you....


whattaya mean?!?!?! they send me xmas card EVERY year!


----------

