# Dream Theater are lip syncing now?



## jruivo26 (Feb 24, 2022)

So... Has anyone addressed this already?

Petrucci has been fake-live singing for a few years now, but apparently this has reached the LEAD SINGER. He even hides from the crowd while "singing" these parts, this is crazy:


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## littlebadboy (Feb 24, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> So... Has anyone addressed this already?
> 
> Petrucci has been fake-live singing for a few years now, but apparently this has reached the LEAD SINGER. He even hides from the crowd while "singing" these parts, this is crazy:



Was this in Chicago last Sunday? I was there. Lip sync or not, it was still a great show! I'm not even much of a Dream Theater fan! I didn't notice any hiding from crowd, but he goes back stage during long instrumental parts. What's he going to do on the stage anyway? I am not sure if it was lip syncing, but I thought it could be looped samples or effects.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 24, 2022)

Dream Theater fans are weird.


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## StevenC (Feb 24, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Dream Theater fans are weird.


Don't trust anyone who likes Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence


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## SpaceDock (Feb 24, 2022)

People pay to go watch holograms perform nowadays too.


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## Matt08642 (Feb 24, 2022)

I'm torn between "Well, that's not cool" and "James is getting up there and has had issues singing live for years. If this is what it takes to put on a better show then whatever I guess"

I'm not about to go to a DT live show though, so I don't really have a horse in this race


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## ArtDecade (Feb 24, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> People pay to go watch holograms perform nowadays too.



People pay to see DJs push play on their playlist.


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## RevelGTR (Feb 24, 2022)

Lol whoever put this together seems like a fucking psycho. The amount of shit that Labrie has gotten over the years is absolutely insane, if he’s lip syncing a few lines that are out of his range I don’t really care.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 24, 2022)

RevelGTR said:


> Lol whoever put this together seems like a fucking psycho. The amount of shit that Labrie has gotten over the years is absolutely insane, if he’s lip syncing a few lines that are out of his range I don’t really care.



I imagine that hardcore Dream Theater fans are upset because they expect a highly technical band to be able to pull off technical parts, including the singing. I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I think DT is so hyper-technical that they forgot how to write a good song decades ago.


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## wheresthefbomb (Feb 24, 2022)

It doesn't look like Petrucci (or anyone) is pretending to sing the backup vocals, so it's really not accurate to call that "fake singing."

Who exactly is being misled about Petrucci's "level of talent" here? It's a stretch to even attribute the backing vocals to him, whether he originally sang them or not. It's obviously a sample, and is indeed an "industry practice," just like autotune or quantizing rhythms.

As for Labrie, this is just some looped clips, I honestly don't find it that hard to believe that he could nail the same line twice in one performance. He's the butt of jokes, but he's also the singer of a world class prog band. I have to assume those guys have some kind of standards. His mouth is moving the entire time as far as I can tell.

The level of rigor that would justify this dingdong's h0t take would be full on spectrogram analysis to show that the waveforms of the two lines are legitimately _identical. _

Even then, who the fuck cares?

On top of all that, let's be honest, LaBrie is a set piece. Nobody is listening to Dream Theater for the vocals or incisive lyrical commentary.

SS.org got me defending DT and James Labrie today. Y'all, never change.


For additional context, here's The Smiths playing Top of the Pops in 1983. They're playing completely to a recording and zero fucks were given by anyone. Like them or not, The Smiths were musicians at the top of their game, nobody could claim otherwise based on this video and be taken seriously.


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## RevelGTR (Feb 24, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I imagine that hardcore Dream Theater fans are upset because they expect a highly technical band to be able to pull off technical parts, including the singing. I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I think DT is so hyper-technical that they forgot how to write a good song decades ago.


I’d consider myself a hardcore Dream Theater fan and my perspective is that James has basically paid his dues. He really fucked up his voice because he didn’t want to drop out of a tour back in the day and has spent the last 20+ years trying his best and getting shit from toxic fans. Again I’m not saying it’s ideal, just trying to be pragmatic and give the guy a break.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 24, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> For additional context, here's The Smiths playing Top of the Pops in 1983. They're playing completely to a recording and zero fucks were given by anyone. Like them or not, The Smiths were musicians at the top of their game, nobody could claim otherwise based on this video and be taken seriously.



I get your point, but you can't really compare a BBC television variety show to a concert that people paid to see. Its like comparing an SNL performance to playing Wembley.


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## NoodleFace (Feb 24, 2022)

People listen to DT for the singing?


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## spudmunkey (Feb 24, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> People listen to DT for the singing?


I listen to DT in spite of the singing.


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## BenjaminW (Feb 24, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I imagine that hardcore Dream Theater fans are upset because they expect a highly technical band to be able to pull off technical parts, including the singing. I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I think DT is so hyper-technical that they forgot how to write a good song decades ago.


Honestly I thought Distance Over Time was great. Tried checking out the new album, but I don't entirely think I'm gonna keep it in my iTunes library. I'm kind of past the phase where I could listen to those long technical prog songs without issue.


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## WarMachine (Feb 24, 2022)

Who's Dream Theater?








*I keed, I keed*


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## Mathemagician (Feb 24, 2022)

DT fans are only there for musician Olympics. So they get mad when they feel that DT are using PEDs. IE anything that might make the show not a mechanical robotic snooze fest- ha got’em!


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## Lax (Feb 25, 2022)

I'm a die hard fan and I don't really care about the singing.
Except the melodies of it.
Basically, people said overdub voices were too highly mixed over labrie's voice.
Honestly, I prefer half of the singing to be recorded and in tune rather than struggles and screams.


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## jruivo26 (Feb 25, 2022)

Don't get me wrong people; DT is my favourite band and I wouldn't play guitar if it wasn't for Petrucci. I just find it weird that they do stuff like this - hell, it isn't even during a high pitched section. Maybe something to do with breath (a lot of parts in a row before a high note)? 

A few years ago they tuned down for the I&W anniversary tour, why aren't they doing this more often with other songs? 



wheresthefbomb said:


> It doesn't look like Petrucci (or anyone) is pretending to sing the backup vocals, so it's really not accurate to call that "fake singing."
> 
> Who exactly is being misled about Petrucci's "level of talent" here? It's a stretch to even attribute the backing vocals to him, whether he originally sang them or not. It's obviously a sample, and is indeed an "industry practice," just like autotune or quantizing rhythms.



I wasn't saying Petrucci is fake singing in this video. He's been doing it since the Scenes from a Memory anniversary tour where he pretends to sing LaBrie's backing vocals to a mic that's not even turned on. Led to bizarre moments like forgetting it was his cue and being far away from the mic, and you could still hear the singing.

I'm not saying they're shit because of this and I still listen to them almost everyday. My only question is... why?


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## STRHelvete (Feb 25, 2022)

I'm just amazed that people actually listen to Dream Theatre.


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## mpexus (Feb 25, 2022)

BEST EVER DT Album version:




Guess why its their best


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## setsuna7 (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> Don't get me wrong people; DT is my favourite band and I wouldn't play guitar if it wasn't for Petrucci. I just find it weird that they do stuff like this - hell, it isn't even during a high pitched section. Maybe something to do with breath (a lot of parts in a row before a high note)?
> 
> A few years ago they tuned down for the I&W anniversary tour, why aren't they doing this more often with other songs?
> 
> ...


probably because of age? They're all getting older now, even Papa Het lost his voice for more that a decade, hence Metallica began tuning down a half step, C# for KEA stuffs, he only returned to form during the initial stages of the Hardwired tour cycle, Papa Het even began using teleprompters, at least LaBrie can memorised DT's lyrics!!


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 25, 2022)

It’s one of those many things metal fans will deny into the ground but miming vocals live isn’t unusual. When I saw Dimmu Borgir they were miming vocal parts. At one point Shagrath just held the mic without moving his lips, not even bothering to pretend. 

I’ve paid to see DJs mime their whole set so miming a few vocals doesn’t bother me.


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## Avedas (Feb 25, 2022)

I mean he's pretty bad live. Don't really blame them.


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## mpexus (Feb 25, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> It’s one of those many things metal fans will deny into the ground but miming vocals live isn’t unusual. When I saw Dimmu Borgir they were miming vocal parts. At one point Shagrath just held the mic without moving his lips, not even bothering to pretend.
> 
> I’ve paid to see DJs mime their whole set so miming a few vocals doesn’t bother me.


If you are miming then whats the point in going to see a Band "Live"?

To pay to get my ears ruined and see guys jumping around with tons of lights FX's then i stay home.


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## Kolaniak (Feb 25, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> I'm just amazed that people actually listen to Dream Theatre.



I am amazed by the fact that people unironically listen to DT. The band should be called Cheese Theater.


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## Andromalia (Feb 25, 2022)

At some point people are going to get that to have good vocal performances from a singer who does 100+ shows a year never happens. The great classical singers cancel any show if they even feel the slightest health issue.



> If you are miming then whats the point in going to see a Band "Live"?


To be fair, it's not just about the band, but the event as a whole. Getting to see/meet people, the ambiance, a different sound. The optimised way to listen to music is at home, nowadays.


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## jruivo26 (Feb 25, 2022)

This made me a bit curious about world class singers who have been able to maintain a solid performance despite age, longevity and health issues, without resorting to" smoke and mirrors", compromising the live event or changing the tuning of the songs. 

And I can only think of Bruce Dickinson. I think I never saw a shoddy performance by him, and besides being 63 this guy has had throat cancer a few years ago.

Are there any other examples that you can think of?


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## Kolaniak (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> This made me a bit curious about world class singers who have been able to maintain a solid performance despite age, longevity and health issues, without resorting to" smoke and mirrors", compromising the live event or changing the tuning of the songs.
> 
> And I can only think of Bruce Dickinson. I think I never saw a shoddy performance by him, and besides being 63 this guy has had throat cancer a few years ago.
> 
> Are there any other examples that you can think of?



Sting, McCartney...


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## Genome (Feb 25, 2022)

I'm surprised they haven't tried tuning down a bit, if even just a half step. Metallica did that about 25 years ago. Genesis also do that, in fact some of the songs on their current tour have been transposed down two whole tones!


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## Andromalia (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> And I can only think of Bruce Dickinson. I think I never saw a shoddy performance by him


If you catch him at the beginning of a tour he's fine. By the 200th show he's a wreck. Maiden is the band I've seen the most in my life (20+ times) and his performances are all over the place. Again, not his fault, _nobody _can maintain a voice with a Maiden tour schedule.


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## jruivo26 (Feb 25, 2022)

Kolaniak said:


> Sting, McCartney...



Indeed, maybe those are some good examples. But I was a bit more focused in the heavy metal / rock palette and intense, technical singing, that's why those 2 didn't even cross my mind.


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## RevDrucifer (Feb 25, 2022)

I noticed the Petrucci lip syncing a couple tours ago, probably the SFAM 20th anniversary tour. I think it’s cheesy as hell to fake it; if it’s on tape just let the tape play and don’t do the mime part. No one will say shit if they hear a backing vocal on tape, but they’ll certainly talk shit if they catch you miming it or missing a cue. 

Really, I’d rather just hear a singer augment a tougher line than hear something on tape. Speak it or drop it down into a different register. 

I’m fairly anti auto-tune/backing tracks in general though. Don’t care if it’s something like choirs, orchestras or even keys when a band doesn’t have a keyboard player, but when it gets into guitars and bass parts I see it as week. I think it was Fit For A King that I caught a few years back and saw right away the guitarist was playing to tracks; there was a pinch harmonic where you could hear the squeal but his hand already moved to a different position (no, it wasn’t delay) and then when I got home I watched some other live vids and saw the bass player doing his spinning around thing not even hitting his bass while hearing the bass just fine through the PA. 

Call me a boomer or whatever, I don’t really care. It’s just fucking lame.


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## AndiKravljaca (Feb 25, 2022)

I mean, I don't really see a big issue here. The performance isn't the show and the show isn't the performance. I've been in loads of situations where the band is performing their butts off, but the show is terrible. I've also been on stage with backing tracks that were pretty huge, loads of symphonic instruments, choirs and so on, but we didn't have the budget to put a 72-piece orchestra on stage, so we put it in the backing tracks. I really don't see the issue in putting backing vocals or a rhythm guitar during the solo on a backing track since it adds to the experience of the song for the audience. 

One time, our keyboard player didn't show up (though we had the keyboard), so we unmuted the keyboard tracks on the laptop, found the prettiest girl we could, and let her rock out behind it while the laptop played all the keyboards. End of the day, your responsibility as a band is to put on a great show, a memorable show, and a great overall experience - and that's a priority over everyone playing everything perfectly or singing perfectly. 

Having said that, a large portion of DT's reputation is built around their skill and I understand that when the tin says 'We're really good at playing our instruments' it's a different level of false advertising than if someone like Christina Aguilera pretends to play a guitar on stage - she, after all, never claimed to be a guitarist and people didn't pay money to see her play guitar. 

But, and this is the important question for me, why are metal fans paying money for the promise of watching someone play/sing something complicated? Why are we as a community so incredibly focused on this sort of thing? I'd much rather watch an entertaining show - and yes, even if the singer isn't singing live. If it helps my experience as an audience member to hear good vocals, then I want to hear good vocals - and if it takes auto tune or backing tracks to do it, then I'm happier than hearing the same artist without. The whole premise of the first clip being 'hiding the level of talent' - why is this a 'talentocracy'? Why is the level of talent a factor instead of the quality of the experience? The music industry very obviously isn't a talentocracy, and it never has been and never has promised us this.

On a personal note, I'd rather listen to playback JLB than actual JLB anyway. Write music you can sing, and which you know you can sing, for goodness sake. This has been his problem for almost 20 years now. I write totally different things for a bit part I know I'll never see again, than I do for a song I know I'll be playing twenty nights in a row.

But on the whole, we're the ones who put them into this corner. We want them to constantly outdo themselves, and the voice is a young man's game. JLB is going to go the way of Halford and Jon Bon Jovi and we have to let him do it.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 25, 2022)

AndiKravljaca said:


> But, and this is the important question for me, why are metal fans paying money for the promise of watching someone play/sing something complicated? Why are we as a community so incredibly focused on this sort of thing? I'd much rather watch an entertaining show - and yes, even if the singer isn't singing live. If it helps my experience as an audience member to hear good vocals, then I want to hear good vocals - and if it takes auto tune or backing tracks to do it, then I'm happier than hearing the same artist without. The whole premise of the first clip being 'hiding the level of talent' - why is this a 'talentocracy'? Why is the level of talent a factor instead of the quality of the experience? The music industry very obviously isn't a talentocracy, and it never has been and never has promised us this.



You answered the question yourself. No one at a Dream Theater show came to see a pretty girl behind the keyboards. They paid to see highly technical parts played proficiently. That is their draw - not the pretty girls, not stage lightning, not dance routines, etc. The draw for Dream Theater has always been "Look at what we can do and how it is utterly effortless". To be fair, they do little for me, but DT should know their audience at this point.


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## ElRay (Feb 25, 2022)

Kolaniak said:


> I am amazed by the fact that people unironically listen to DT. The band should be called Cheese Theater.


You shouldn't post from 1st period remedial maths class. Also, does you mom know you took her phone to school?


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## Sermo Lupi (Feb 25, 2022)

How long has Labrie been doing this? 

I'm not particularly bothered, but count me as one of the fans that hadn't suspected this. When I saw DT live in recent years on the Astonishing tour, the Images and Words tour, and then on the SFAM tour, there was enough variation in Labrie's performance for me to believe it was real. For reference, the Astonishing was literally the first show of the tour, and the SFAM show was where they recorded the DVD. I forget how far along London was in the Images and Words tour...they may have started in America but I think it was relatively early on the European leg.

Would it be possible that Labrie performs some shows live and dubs others when his voice is suffering? The way musicians have it these days, having a contingency plan to avoid disruption of tour revenue seems obvious. Which is not to suggest all bands dub vocals because they certainly don't.


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## STRHelvete (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> This made me a bit curious about world class singers who have been able to maintain a solid performance despite age, longevity and health issues, without resorting to" smoke and mirrors", compromising the live event or changing the tuning of the songs.
> 
> And I can only think of Bruce Dickinson. I think I never saw a shoddy performance by him, and besides being 63 this guy has had throat cancer a few years ago.
> 
> Are there any other examples that you can think of?


Chaka Khan


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## Metalman X (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> Indeed, maybe those are some good examples. But I was a bit more focused in the heavy metal / rock palette and intense, technical singing, that's why those 2 didn't even cross my mind.


Rob Halford, Chuck Billy, Bobby Blitz Ellesworth, and King Diamond come to mind. Halford perhaps the most 'technically technical' from a traditional sense. But the ther dudes are all high intensity and with broad ranges of there own. All are even cancer survivors, or had other health crisis in there later years and came back swinging hard as ever (hell, IIRC Blitz even had a stroke onstage in the mid 2000's, and dude was back on tour AMA, I'm sure, not much more than 6 months later)

I never got to catch Dio when he was around (much to my own dismay), but from my understanding he always brought the thunder live as well up until the end


Not metal, but worth mentioning, I saw Rush about a decade ago when they were doing the entirety of Moving Pictures live, and they transposed material lower for Geddy to hit his parts, and sounded great. The first set they did was non-Moving Pictures tunes... one of them was Temples Of Syrinx. No way Geddy was hitting those notes live in quite awhile. But they transposed it down by arount two steps, which sure, it sounded different... but it was also kinda cool to hear a different version of it anyway


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## bostjan (Feb 25, 2022)

Who goes to a Dream Theater show to see anything other than Dream Theater's performance?! Are you guys serious?!

I saw DT live a dozen times, starting in the 90's and I haven't seen them since 2007 or so. Many of their performances blew me away, but there's no way I would have bothered paying the $60-80 for a ticket to see them mime their songs on stage. 

If I go to a metal concert, I go to see the metal band play metal. Period. If you go for whatever other reason, hey, it's your money, but, just out of curiosity, why bother? You could go to a meet-and-greet if you want to see the guys in the band. You could load up their music at home if you want to hear their music played from a recording.

It's looking like maybe LaBrie doesn't really want to do the touring thing anymore. There was that news going around a few months ago that he didn't want to tour, but JP basically told him he was outvoted. So maybe I don't blame LaBrie for phoning it in, but I can still blame the band as a whole if they really are lipsynching/pantomiming their performances.

But, all that said, maybe LaBrie is using a harmonizer pedal or something, in that particular clip? I mean, not to sound overly mean, but, if he was really lipsynching, wouldn't his live performances sound better?


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## wheresthefbomb (Feb 25, 2022)

jruivo26 said:


> I wasn't saying Petrucci is fake singing in this video. He's been doing it since the Scenes from a Memory anniversary tour where he pretends to sing LaBrie's backing vocals to a mic that's not even turned on. Led to bizarre moments like forgetting it was his cue and being far away from the mic, and you could still hear the singing.
> 
> I'm not saying they're shit because of this and I still listen to them almost everyday. My only question is... why?



I don't have a horse in this race so I just went off what I saw. I _do _have experience with spectrogram analysis, though.


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## jruivo26 (Feb 25, 2022)

Metalman X said:


> Rob Halford, Chuck Billy, Bobby Blitz Ellesworth, and King Diamond come to mind. Halford perhaps the most 'technically technical' from a traditional sense.


I saw Priest opening for Ozzy in 2018 and Halford was struggling (understandably) with higher registers, even stepping into a 'weaker', softer, falsetto (don't know the technical terminology). Oh and the songs were tuned down too. Still was an enjoyable experience, not bashing.


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## Wc707 (Feb 25, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I don't have a horse in this race so I just went off what I saw. I _do _have experience with spectrogram analysis, though.


I have _spectrophotmetric_ experience.

Jokes aside, I think you gotta see the other guys bend a little for his voice and drop some tunes down a half step or so. I've heard a lot of rough live performances from him. 

I'm sure he'd still do a decent job, but that's hard to keep up with when touring as vigorously as they do, and for how old he is. 

I would be upset if they did backing tracks and shit live if I was paying close to 100 bucks a ticket, cause I would _expect_ to hear every note.

They have their self-made legacy of technicality schtick to keep up with.


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## Toejam (Feb 25, 2022)

People lip synch? Please tell me Iron Maiden didn't do that here...


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## cardinal (Feb 25, 2022)

It's not a perfect world. Ideally yeah everyone in the band is actually playing or singing, but sometimes that not possible without it sounding horrible, so you can either just sound horrible, dub it in, just not play the show, or have some bench of replacement band members to plug in. 

I think various bands have tried all of these approaches over the years, but none are perfect. I would say playing but sounding like shit is the worst choice though (Motley Crew: you need a new singer, to dub him, or just stop plz).


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## MYGFH (Feb 25, 2022)

I've always thought that either producers or a band member gets so eager to put out the best, most amazing album ever, that they make a recording beyond the limits of the band's live abilities. As far as the state of any vocalists' diminished abilities, I would prefer to hear a vocalist sing in their range, rather than, lip sync. Doesn't bother me in the least, or affect the level of fun I have, if the vocalist in their 40's, 50's, or 60's doesn't have the same range from their 20's. I usually can't hear the old guys' vocals because established bands' crowds sing over the vocalist anyway.


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## devastone (Feb 25, 2022)

Toejam said:


> People lip synch? Please tell me Iron Maiden didn't do that here...


I get your sarcasm, without watching the clip, but yeah, most TV appearances are sync'd sometimes it's just the instruments with live vocals, a lot of the time it's everything.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 25, 2022)

Most low budget television programs from the 70s/80s weren't mic'ing a band and trying to get a proper mix for a three minute song. It was a track. The point was promoting a single, not putting on a performance. Yes, back then... singles were a thing.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 25, 2022)

littlebadboy said:


> Was this in Chicago last Sunday? I was there. Lip sync or not, it was still a great show! I'm not even much of a Dream Theater fan! I didn't notice any hiding from crowd, but he goes back stage during long instrumental parts. What's he going to do on the stage anyway? I am not sure if it was lip syncing, but I thought it could be looped samples or effects.


You accept mediocrity and accept it as a great show. Gross.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 25, 2022)

Toejam said:


> People lip synch? Please tell me Iron Maiden didn't do that here...



my uncle was there he said it was all real trust me bro


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## Jamiecrain (Feb 25, 2022)

I think the vocals in DT have always been the weakest link, especially live, so anything that helps improve them is a bonus.


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## thesnowdog (Feb 25, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Don't trust anyone who likes Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence


Oh man...and I don't drink either.


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## Chanson (Feb 25, 2022)

I can understand people caring about the integrity of the performance and wanting to witness the technicality and musicianship when seeing DT live. But really who is putting their vocals anywhere near the same pedestal as the instrumentation?


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## Jonathan20022 (Feb 25, 2022)

I can't imagine caring enough to "expose" this nor the flipside, being obsessed enough to rage-defend a band to the degree some of those youtube comments spent their time doing.

Who gives a fuck, people jump through a million mental hoops about authenticity in art like it matters at all. The fact that a band as established as this still has obsessive fans frothing at the mouth for an instance of musical dishonesty is beyond pathetic.


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## sneerim (Feb 25, 2022)

I don't like the backing vocals on tracks, but it's not that big of a deal to me as long as it's not being mimed. Miming any part is a huge turn-off though. If LaBrie can't pull the parts off, tune down and/or modify the part to make it work.

I used to be a huge DT fan, still enjoy them but mostly out of nostalgia. I gave up on seeing them live in recent years because LaBrie has gone way downhill and I can't listen to him sing the classic material without feeling really disappointed.


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## Kolaniak (Feb 26, 2022)

ElRay said:


> You shouldn't post from 1st period remedial maths class. Also, does you mom know you took her phone to school?



DT Fan spotted.


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## Aewrik (Feb 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> But, all that said, maybe LaBrie is using a harmonizer pedal or something, in that particular clip? I mean, not to sound overly mean, but, if he was really lipsynching, wouldn't his live performances sound better?


I thought about it some yesterday after reading this thread, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan Rudess has synthesized John Petrucci's voice and is vocaloiding the backing vocals out of boredom. The man's a musical maniac, and if he doesn't have anything better to do... why not?

As for LaBrie, in the OP clip, he looks utterly powerless when he sings. As a singer myself, if I had that posture while belting for king and country, it would sound deflated at best. I would not be surprised if he is lipsynching... or maybe running some beautifying post processing. That wouldn't be too bad, if you think about it - we wouldn't expect JP to turn off his pedals and preamp section, why expect anything different of LaBrie, just because vocals have always just relied on a channel strip, compressor and main FX bus live... maybe LaBrie is making an attempt to revolutionize live vocals? (LOL)

I really liked Illumination Theory on the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD. It would be a bummer if the vocals there were pre-recorded.


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## EverettShredds (Feb 26, 2022)

Hmm... maybe it makes the vox sound better live but is live then still live?


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 26, 2022)

This is a travesty. I'm pouring out my signature, private reserve, authentic JP beard oil in protest as we speak.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 26, 2022)

Warm (cold?) take: Peak '90s LaBrie was a fantastic vocalist. Some of y'all saying he always sucked need to put that pipe down.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 26, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Warm (cold?) take: Peak '90s LaBrie was a fantastic vocalist. Some of y'all saying he always sucked need to put that pipe down.



Seems cool enough, but burns roof of your mouth take: LaBrie was a very gifted, technically capable vocalist who was in the wrong band and never a great writer, so always comes off as the weak link. But he's blown his voice out, so either should have adapted better or hung up the towel, or he was inviting the criticism. Which is a bummer, because he really was gifted.


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## CanserDYI (Feb 26, 2022)

Dream theater should have been an instrumental prog band, my hot take. 

He ruins dream theater to me, in every DT era.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 26, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Dream theater should have been an instrumental prog band, my hot take.
> 
> He ruins dream theater to me, in every DT era.



Luckily, we have LTE.


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## GenghisCoyne (Feb 26, 2022)

no musical genre has been on life support longer than dad prog


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## bubingaisgod (Feb 26, 2022)

RevelGTR said:


> I’d consider myself a hardcore Dream Theater fan and my perspective is that James has basically paid his dues. He really fucked up his voice because he didn’t want to drop out of a tour back in the day and has spent the last 20+ years trying his best and getting shit from toxic fans. Again I’m not saying it’s ideal, just trying to be pragmatic and give the guy a break.


It's like shitting on James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine for not being at the top of their game at their age. 
Not saying the music is even remotely comparable from either end, but jeez cut the dude some slack. I doubt many of us could do better over 20+ years.

Now his wardrobe is fair game lol.


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## ElRay (Feb 26, 2022)

Kolaniak said:


> DT Fan spotted.


Not really. They've always been the band that by all description I should like, but I find boring.

I just don't like prepubescent (either literally or emotionally), double-digit posters, been here less than six month, shit-stirring wankers. Does your mommiy know you're using her phone after midnight?


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## ToolmasterOfBrainerd (Feb 26, 2022)

Dang. I am seeing DT in a few weeks for the first time. I like LaBrie's vocals on the records, but I've heard the stories of how bad his voice is live. I was kind of looking forward to hearing it for myself.


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## Lax (Feb 27, 2022)

Side note: how hypocrit people dissing DT are, when talking about labrie's decay...
Anselmo, axel rose, etc, how many junkie asses can't sing like before or are wreck/divas on stage ?


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## Muzz (Feb 27, 2022)

When they played in Sydney a few years ago on the Images and Words tour, they opened with The Dark Eternal Night. Was great until the vocals came in, first thought was wtf I paid >$100 for this? Credit where credit is due, he was much better after the intermission when they played surrounded and A Change of Seasons etc.

I must admit my first thought on seeing the thread title was oh that's gonna be a really bad thing if they did start lip syncing, but after some reflection I'd rather have better vocals than what I saw 

Do note I am not taking anything away from LaBrie, though I can't help but feel they should have started to help him out a little more; whether that be tuning a little lower or some more overdubs.


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## mpexus (Feb 27, 2022)

bubingaisgod said:


> It's like shitting on James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine for not being at the top of their game at their age.
> Not saying the music is even remotely comparable from either end, but jeez cut the dude some slack. I doubt many of us could do better over 20+ years.
> 
> Now his wardrobe is fair game lol.


Neither James or Dave have "singing voice" where if they are not exactly on Key would make a huge difference. In fact none of those examples to me are "true" singing like Labrie did. Now when you cant do it anymore like he cant then slightly off note and it sounds awful. 

It's not even my not liking his singing, because I don't, but everything I see fan filmed sounds atrocious since a long time now. I'm a bit of the same with even Bruce Dickinson, live his voice sounds like he his screaming all the time now and its extremely nasally sounding but Bruce also doesn't stop for a second and he is older and he has been doing it for much longer than Labrie yet he still can do it at more than 50% of what he did in the 80's and 90's... Labrie just cant. 

In comparative terms its the same if Petrucci missed 60-70% of the notes and then the justification was because he had an Arm Injury... well.. then dont play your old stuff and come up with things you can play without being a total mess


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## LostTheTone (Feb 27, 2022)

mpexus said:


> Neither James or Dave have "singing voice" where if they are not exactly on Key would make a huge difference. In fact none of those examples to me are "true" singing like Labrie did. Now when you cant do it anymore like he cant then slightly off note and it sounds awful.
> 
> It's not even my not liking his singing, because I don't, but everything I see fan filmed sounds atrocious since a long time now. I'm a bit of the same with even Bruce Dickinson, live his voice sounds like he his screaming all the time now and its extremely nasally sounding but Bruce also doesn't stop for a second and he is older and he has been doing it for much longer than Labrie yet he still can do it at more than 50% of what he did in the 80's and 90's... Labrie just cant.
> 
> In comparative terms its the same if Petrucci missed 60-70% of the notes and then the justification was because he had an Arm Injury... well.. then dont play your old stuff and come up with things you can play without being a total mess



Yeah, I tend to agree. 

I think that audiences are reasonably understanding when it comes to vocals - No-one would be outraged by rearranging some old material so that you can still hit the notes. And no-one would think less of him for getting in a guest singer to fill in for some specific stuff on stage. Plenty of bands have extra musicians to play harp or whatever. 

To me though, miming is the worst of all worlds. It is potentially possible that you have something that goes wrong in the middle of a tour and cancelling would be a massive hit for the band, and then you have to figure it out as best you can. But you shouldn't be doing it as a normal part of your stage show. People come to see you actually play, you know?


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## CanserDYI (Feb 27, 2022)

bubingaisgod said:


> It's like shitting on James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine for not being at the top of their game at their age.
> Not saying the music is even remotely comparable from either end, but jeez cut the dude some slack. I doubt many of us could do better over 20+ years.
> 
> Now his wardrobe is fair game lol.


James is still a fucking monster, he still riffs like a madman. I never paid attention to Mustaine so have no idea about him, but James impresses me to this day with his right hand and ability to keep up while singing.


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## Seabeast2000 (Feb 27, 2022)

An Unplugged performance before stools and acoustics were the selling point.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 27, 2022)

mpexus said:


> If you are miming then whats the point in going to see a Band "Live"?
> 
> To pay to get my ears ruined and see guys jumping around with tons of lights FX's then i stay home.



It depends on the act. A DJ miming is just accepted since they are doing things that aren't playable on any instrument or can't be replicated without mountains of gear. Not to mention all the vocalists needed. Dance shows are all about the atmosphere in the crowd. Like a huge nightclub. 

A pop star miming all her vocals because she has a full dance routine for every song is also expected and understandable. Since a lot of them rely heavily on studio techniques to sound better when they are in the comfort of a studio. 

A band like Dream Theater or Dimmu Borgir miming some vocals. Not what you'd expect but they are playing all the instruments. Why not just have a backing track at that point and everyone will think its just a vocal effect. Strange decision.


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## RevDrucifer (Feb 28, 2022)

Really, the bottom line is that when DT starts booking dates and tickets go on sale, they sell. They’ve only gotten bigger as time has gone on and like any other band that’s been going as long as they have, it’s a business that needs to keep money rolling in.

Anyone knockin’ his vocals these days needs to go revisit the Falling Into Infinity tour when he just wasn’t into it at all. The whole band was on the verge of breaking up throughout that period and James looked straight up bored up there. That was over 20 years ago.

While I’m not the biggest LaBrie fan out there (much prefer his vocals on his solo albums than on DT albums) I always get a chuckle when armchair vocalist come out to start bashing vocalist who have been touring the world and actually singing for the majority of their lives.

That said, lip-syncing and auto tune is bullshit.


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## ArtDecade (Feb 28, 2022)

Lax said:


> Side note: how hypocrit people dissing DT are, when talking about labrie's decay...
> Anselmo, axel rose, etc, how many junkie asses can't sing like before or are wreck/divas on stage ?



Totally missing the point. The main contingent of DT's fanbase are musicians that are there to see their technical skill. They are paying for a flawless performance. No one cares if Axl can sing. His fans want attitude and rock star excess. That has been on offer since day one - not vocal technique. Those fans are paying to see a guy self-destruct on stage.


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## Lax (Feb 28, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Totally missing the point. The main contingent of DT's fanbase are musicians that are there to see their technical skill. They are paying for a flawless performance. No one cares if Axl can sing. His fans want attitude and rock star excess. That has been on offer since day one - not vocal technique. Those fans are paying to see a guy self-destruct on stage.


Ok, I get your point, I guess I consider most singers not as important as the music...
I feel that even more with DT since labrie's octave coverage melts like ice and new albums singing melodies are way flatter.


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## /wrists (Feb 28, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> People pay to see DJs push play on their playlist.


fucking LMAO my man


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## Xiphos68 (Mar 1, 2022)

My take as a huge Dream Theater fan. They are the top 5 in my favorite bands.

I don't care about Petrucci singing unless he lied about it. Alex Lifeson always pretended to sing background vocals in Rush.
Don't know if they used backing tracks or whatever.

Secondly, is he not singing into a delay holding the note longer for when Labrie singing?

For the record, Labrie never blew out his voice back in the 90's. He got super sick and the Doctor told him not to do the upcoming tour. He decided to do the tour anyway, for whatever reason. Then his vocals got messed up on tour, he had not had enough rest.
Kind of sad really because he had some of the best vocals of all time and is untouchable on the Live in Tokyo DVD. He had so much power and rasp.

Considering I just bought tickets last night, this pisses me off as a fan if it is true considering the level that Dream Theater has always held themselves too.
Especially when Mike Portnoy was in the group being the leader of the group.

In all reality, Dream Theater should have been writing better songs for Labrie to sing. He kills it with Matt Guillory (Keyboardist/Writer for "James Labrie Solo band) in his solo band.
They just need to tune down or not do the songs when it comes to the past and Labrie can't sing them.

This is strange because Labrie killed it on "The Astonishing" tour when I saw them and it seemed like he was taking a turn for his vocals to get better.

I feel bad for Labrie, he's taken pot-shot after pot-shot over the years, I'm surprised he never left.
I'm glad he hasn't because I think they could write better songs for his voice and truthfully I enjoy his voice. He was/is a Legend just doesn't have the pipes like he used to.
Like Dickinson, Coverdale, Halford. Few exceptions but very few.

Under no circumstances is Auto-Tune acceptable or singing to backing tracks.
If they are "backing vocals" from the actual singer, whatever. But actual Lead vocals are a different story.

As a fan, this just sucks if it's true.

About the new album: Yeah, I didn't particularly care for the new album. There are some great moments but in general, I listened to it once and never again afterword.
Labrie's vocals sounded off compared to the last one. Which I found strange because I loved the last record. It was great.


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## RevelGTR (Mar 1, 2022)

I don’t see how mild pitch correction on a live vocal is any different than triggers on a kit which is extremely common. Labrie’s voice is pretty shot, the band wants to keep touring and he’s not going to go up there and completely embarrass himself every night. (inb4 people say he already has been. You know what I mean.)


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## Bloody_Inferno (Mar 1, 2022)

Xiphos68 said:


> Alex Lifeson always pretended to sing background vocals in Rush.
> Don't know if they used backing tracks or whatever.



Rush do use backing tracks especially post Power Windows, but they keep it at a minimum sans for keyboards going out of hand. On songs like Distant Early Warning and Vital Signs, that's Peart playing along to the keyboard sequences so you can still hear him waver like he's playing natrually. 

In Alex's case, backing vox assigned to tracks is indeed common industry practice but there is that visual aspect whether you're pretending or not. Just as long as you don't miss the cue. That said, it'd be silly to have either Alex or Neil pretend to sing Aimee Mann's parts.


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## SpaceDock (Mar 2, 2022)

Xiphos68 said:


> My take as a huge Dream Theater fan. They are the top 5 in my favorite bands.
> 
> I don't care about Petrucci singing unless he lied about it. Alex Lifeson always pretended to sing background vocals in Rush.
> Don't know if they used backing tracks or whatever.
> ...


I feel this so much Labrie solo albums are amazing. As a guitarist or writer, if you can’t write considering the vocalist you are fucked. Petrucci has some big dick problems blocking him from making his band truly historic. We all get old and the vocals are gonna go first U2 been playing old songs whole step down for 20 years.


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## Xaios (Mar 2, 2022)

Kolaniak said:


> I am amazed by the fact that people unironically listen to DT. The band should be called Cheese Theater.


What do you think we're there for? The dude's name is James La_*Brie*_*. *He's basically "James The Cheese". And such glorious cheese it is, a delicious prog metal Gruyere.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 2, 2022)

Xiphos68 said:


> For the record, Labrie never blew out his voice back in the 90's. He got super sick and the Doctor told him not to do the upcoming tour. He decided to do the tour anyway, for whatever reason. Then his vocals got messed up on tour, he had not had enough rest.
> Kind of sad really because he had some of the best vocals of all time and is untouchable on the Live in Tokyo DVD. He had so much power and rasp.



On the one hand, the damage to LaBrie's voice on the Awake tour is difficult to refute because he has always been the one putting a spotlight on it. On the other hand, LaBrie continued to give incredible vocal performances throughout the 90s and early 2000s, especially on the albums of that era, and went on to say his voice was 100% healed by the mid-2000s, circa Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos. 

So, with regard to the changes his voice has undergone since then, it's mostly just aging. I also always got the sense LaBrie fixated on the food poisoning as a way of coping with criticism. Not irrationally, necessarily, but assigning it an outsized importance as the big "what if" of his career when the criticism was happening for other reasons.


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## RevDrucifer (Mar 3, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Warm (cold?) take: Peak '90s LaBrie was a fantastic vocalist. Some of y'all saying he always sucked need to put that pipe down.



Agreed. I think this is mainly a thing where people don’t dig the sound of his voice so they go to the “He’s always sucked” when on a technical level, that dude could pull off some amazing shit. He’s still an outstanding vocalist, his range has just diminished. 

Another example of that is Geoff Tate; despite completely giving up on his voice for a couple decades, there were tons of people who didn’t notice because his vocal tone has always been appealing to many people and as long as they heard that voice, they were happy, despite the fact that he stopped hitting the high notes years ago. To the non-musicians who don’t understand/care about pitch, he was just as good in 2015 as he was in 1985.


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## StevenC (Mar 3, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Totally missing the point. The main contingent of DT's fanbase are musicians that are there to see their technical skill. They are paying for a flawless performance. No one cares if Axl can sing. His fans want attitude and rock star excess. That has been on offer since day one - not vocal technique. Those fans are paying to see a guy self-destruct on stage.


Oh come on. The majority of DT fans are guitar nerds who don't realise singing ability can deteriorate with age and that there are numerous things outside of a musician's control that can reduce their ability. 

People who just want to listen to Ytse Jam, Erotomania, Hell's Kitchen, Dance of Eternity and Stream of Consciousness on repeat aren't buying tickets. No one buying a DT ticket today is under any illusions that Labrie can still sing like it's 1992. 

I have tickets to see them next month. I'm not a fan of Ruddess or Mangini in the band, and think they have released anything worth listening to in 20 years. I'm going to see Pull Me Under, Take the Time, and if I luck out maybe Learning to Live and The Mirror. They're a legacy band now, even if they haven't accepted that themselves.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 3, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Oh come on. The majority of DT fans are guitar nerds who don't realise singing ability can deteriorate with age and that there are numerous things outside of a musician's control that can reduce their ability.
> 
> People who just want to listen to Ytse Jam, Erotomania, Hell's Kitchen, Dance of Eternity and Stream of Consciousness on repeat aren't buying tickets. No one buying a DT ticket today is under any illusions that Labrie can still sing like it's 1992.
> 
> I have tickets to see them next month. I'm not a fan of Ruddess or Mangini in the band, and think they have released anything worth listening to in 20 years. I'm going to see Pull Me Under, Take the Time, and if I luck out maybe Learning to Live and The Mirror. They're a legacy band now, even if they haven't accepted that themselves.


I hear ya. I am just saying that even if you don't get a flawless performance, you need Labrie to be good enough to not overshadow the tunes with his "issues". Again though - no one cares if Axl can sing through a show. They want him to run around the stage and maybe punch a security guard.


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## Xaios (Mar 4, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I have tickets to see them next month. I'm not a fan of Ruddess or Mangini in the band, and think they have released anything worth listening to in 20 years. I'm going to see Pull Me Under, Take the Time, and if I luck out maybe Learning to Live and The Mirror.


If you're lucky, you'll get to see them play Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

In its entirety.


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## The Mirror (Mar 4, 2022)

Xaios said:


> If you're lucky, you'll get to see them play Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.
> 
> In its entirety.


Well, Six Degrees is probably their last great record if you just scrap the title track / entire second CD.

And cut the last three minutes of "ambient piano wanking" in Misunderstood.

And cut half the runtime of The Great Debate to turn it into a actual song and not a improv fest of boredom intercut with what could be a song.

And totally change Disappear as it feels like a "hey look I got this new keyboard patch" song.

Uhm.

I like Glass Prison and Blind Faith.


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## StevenC (Mar 4, 2022)

I take it back, I am not excited. Dream Theater's current setlist is somehow the worst of all worlds. Only good song they're playing is 6:00.


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## bostjan (Mar 4, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I take it back, I am not excited. Dream Theater's current setlist is somehow the worst of all worlds. Only good song they're playing is 6:00.


I thought you might be making a hyperbole, but it checks out. I looked at the relative popularity of each song, and the average popularity of the songs on the set list is #111. I understand wanting to play as many of your new songs as possible, and that's totally expected and cool, but then mix those in with the fan favourites!

No Pull Me Under? No problem. No Metropilis Part I? Okay. No The Spirit Carries On? Alright. No Under a Glass Moon? Bummer, but okay. No Take the Time, no Surrounded, No Learning to Live, no Strange Deja Vu, no Mirror, no Lie, no Fatal Tragedy, no Home, no Voices? Eek. No As I Am, no Peruvian Skies, no Hollow Years, no Through My Words, no Finally Free, no Ytse Jam, no Killing Hand, no Fortune in Lies, no A Change of Seasons, no Glass Prison?! Oh boy!

Who wants to go see a band play their new album with a couple deep cuts off more recent albums sprinkled in, and then do their 36th best known song as an encore? I don't know what they are thinking.


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## StevenC (Mar 4, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I thought you might be making a hyperbole, but it checks out. I looked at the relative popularity of each song, and the average popularity of the songs on the set list is #111. I understand wanting to play as many of your new songs as possible, and that's totally expected and cool, but then mix those in with the fan favourites!
> 
> No Pull Me Under? No problem. No Metropilis Part I? Okay. No The Spirit Carries On? Alright. No Under a Glass Moon? Bummer, but okay. No Take the Time, no Surrounded, No Learning to Live, no Strange Deja Vu, no Mirror, no Lie, no Fatal Tragedy, no Home, no Voices? Eek. No As I Am, no Peruvian Skies, no Hollow Years, no Through My Words, no Finally Free, no Ytse Jam, no Killing Hand, no Fortune in Lies, no A Change of Seasons, no Glass Prison?! Oh boy!
> 
> Who wants to go see a band play their new album with a couple deep cuts off more recent albums sprinkled in, and then do their 36th best known song as an encore? I don't know what they are thinking.


1 song from the 90s is brutal for a Dream Theater show. And I love 6:00 but it's not the one song I'd pick from pre 2002 DT. 

No Dance of Eternity, maybe the most Dream Theater song.


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## bostjan (Mar 4, 2022)

StevenC said:


> 1 song from the 90s is brutal for a Dream Theater show. And I love 6:00 but it's not the one song I'd pick from pre 2002 DT.
> 
> No Dance of Eternity, maybe the most Dream Theater song.




Their best selling album, according to RIAA, was _Images and Words_, selling more than twice as many copies as anything else, and I think just about any fan would agree that none of the material on their current set list could be considered a contender for the fan favourite to hear live.

As long as they are having fun with it™ and selling tickets, though...


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## c7spheres (Mar 4, 2022)

I hope Petrucci don't start guitar miming himself. That would be disappointing. I hope he ain't doing it already, but I understand arthritis. jk


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## Fabrice (Mar 4, 2022)

Do they still play on stage like on the albums?
Or do they make room for improvisation and new arrangements?


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## Matt08642 (Mar 4, 2022)




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## StevenC (Mar 4, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> View attachment 104141
> 
> View attachment 104142
> 
> ...


No I just want them to play Awake start to finish.


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## bostjan (Mar 4, 2022)

I think you are mistaking people being disappointed not to hear _any_ of their favourite songs for not wanting to hear anything new. The general idea for a legacy-level band touring is trying to mix in 3-4 of the biggest fan favourites with 6-8 new songs.


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## bostjan (Mar 4, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I think you are mistaking people being disappointed not to hear _any_ of their favourite songs for not wanting to hear anything new. The general idea for a legacy-level band touring is trying to mix in 3-4 of the biggest fan favourites with 6-8 new songs.


But also, probably a lot of us old farts don't care that much about the new material. I listened to the new album when it came out, and maybe 2 tracks once or twice since then, compared to when I picked up, say, _Train of Thought_, or _Octavarium_, neither of which were my favourite albums by them, but I listened to them front to back maybe half a dozen times the first month they were out. So, also yes you are correct.


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## RevDrucifer (Mar 4, 2022)

While I’m a fan for more nostalgic reasons than anything they’ve put out since 6DOIT, they’ve only gained in popularity over the years. The size of the venues has gotten bigger and bigger and seems to have leveled out to bigger theaters these days, much bigger than the places I originally saw them in the 90’s. 

Once they got on Roadrunner and started getting legit label support/making videos again, they jumped up in popularity a bit. My only assumption is the younger djent/prog generation caught onto them and dig the stuff they’re putting out. I think anyone who could have been a fan in the 90’s would have been a fan and didn’t jump on just because they saw the video for “The Dark Eternal Night” on MTV2, which is why I’m assuming it’s the younger generation.

I haven’t seen DT since ‘03 when they toured with Ryche, so I have no clue what their audiences look like these days. That’s long enough now that people who were my same age then are now taking their teenage kids to the shows.


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## mastapimp (Mar 4, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> While I’m a fan for more nostalgic reasons than anything they’ve put out since 6DOIT, they’ve only gained in popularity over the years. The size of the venues has gotten bigger and bigger and seems to have leveled out to bigger theaters these days, much bigger than the places I originally saw them in the 90’s.
> 
> Once they got on Roadrunner and started getting legit label support/making videos again, they jumped up in popularity a bit. My only assumption is the younger djent/prog generation caught onto them and dig the stuff they’re putting out. I think anyone who could have been a fan in the 90’s would have been a fan and didn’t jump on just because they saw the video for “The Dark Eternal Night” on MTV2, which is why I’m assuming it’s the younger generation.
> 
> I haven’t seen DT since ‘03 when they toured with Ryche, so I have no clue what their audiences look like these days. That’s long enough now that people who were my same age then are now taking their teenage kids to the shows.


Not in central Florida. I've seen them live several times over a 20 year span and it's always at the same 3 venues (HOB, Hard Rock Live, Ruth Eckard Hall) as both support and headliners. They can pack a decent sized theater, but venue size has been pretty static from my perspective.


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## bostjan (Mar 4, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> While I’m a fan for more nostalgic reasons than anything they’ve put out since 6DOIT, they’ve only gained in popularity over the years. The size of the venues has gotten bigger and bigger and seems to have leveled out to bigger theaters these days, much bigger than the places I originally saw them in the 90’s.
> 
> Once they got on Roadrunner and started getting legit label support/making videos again, they jumped up in popularity a bit. My only assumption is the younger djent/prog generation caught onto them and dig the stuff they’re putting out. I think anyone who could have been a fan in the 90’s would have been a fan and didn’t jump on just because they saw the video for “The Dark Eternal Night” on MTV2, which is why I’m assuming it’s the younger generation.
> 
> I haven’t seen DT since ‘03 when they toured with Ryche, so I have no clue what their audiences look like these days. That’s long enough now that people who were my same age then are now taking their teenage kids to the shows.


It's partly because they've spent so much time building a legacy, though.

_Images and Words_ has sold over 600 k copies. They're next best-selling album is less than half of that. <<But no one buys records anymore>>, well, then "Pull Me Under" has over 44M plays on Spotify, and their next most popular song is just over half of that.

If they are sick of playing their older material, that's cool, I can respect that, but then there's the awkward point to bring up that their new material sounds suspiciously a lot like their old material ground up in a sausage machine, plus that one song with eight string guitar in it.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 6, 2022)

For convenience, here's the older songs they're playing on this tour (which comprise 6 of 10 songs in the setlist): 

* 6:00

* Endless Sacrifice

* Bridges in the Sky

* About to Crash

* Ministry of Lost Souls

* Count of Tuscany

I agree it's an odd assemblage but I don't hate it.

6:00 is a classic and About to Crash is wonderful (as one of the few on this forum to really like Six Degrees, I guess). Endless Sacrifice was one of the more popular songs off of Train of Thought and Ministry of Lost Souls was a sleeper hit off of sorts from Systematic Chaos. I don't feel strongly about Bridges in the Sky. As for Count of Tuscany, it's a great song but DT has a dozen songs like it that might be more appreciated as encores. Or 2-3 shorter ones. 

It's far from my dream setlist, that's for sure. However, I'd still pay to see it, especially given the fact that they're not repeating many (any?) of the songs that they've played on recent tours. 

I guess an Awake anniversary tour will have to wait until the 30th anniversary in 2024 at this point?


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## The Mirror (Mar 7, 2022)

Not staying too much on the "old-man-screaming-at-clouds" kind of speeches, but if Hetfield screams at the crowd "wanna hear an old song?" a Kill Em' All Track is about to pop.

For DT I'd let pass aynthing up to Awake as "old" (since Kevin Moore left after that), which means only 6:00 is a track I am absolutely familiar with (having dropped the band around Octavarium / Systematic Chaos).

That all said I have no problem with newer tracks, I guess I just miss Portnoy's heavy influence on the setlists. Even though it was quite a torture for the band, having a constant rotating setlist with at least one new track on every show of the leg makes it actually worthwhile to follow the band to more then one gig.

Now if you don't like the setlist you have downright no reason to even buy a ticket since that one setlist is what you get.

It was something rather interesting with this band, as most other musicians just stick to a fixed setlist with one or two songs to interchange.


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## possumkiller (Mar 7, 2022)

Isn't lip synching the norm now? 

I know what I want to see. I want to see James Hetfield lip synching KEA-AJFA. That should get some attention.


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## j3ps3 (Mar 7, 2022)

Lax said:


> Side note: how hypocrit people dissing DT are, when talking about labrie's decay...
> Anselmo, axel rose, etc, how many junkie asses can't sing like before or are wreck/divas on stage ?


Prime example of whataboutism


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## RevDrucifer (Mar 7, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Not in central Florida. I've seen them live several times over a 20 year span and it's always at the same 3 venues (HOB, Hard Rock Live, Ruth Eckard Hall) as both support and headliners. They can pack a decent sized theater, but venue size has been pretty static from my perspective.



As a South Floridian, we really get the shit end of the stick when it comes to touring. Occasionally we get some bigger acts coming down, Trivium played here a couple years ago but most likely because Paulo was still living here than and it was a hometown show at that point. They haven’t been back since he left. Sevendust generally comes through twice while they’re on a tour cycle. Anything bigger than a 1,000 seat venue goes to West Palm Beach and it seems only Slipknot gives enough of a shit to make sure they get down here. 

I first saw DT at Irving Plaza in NYC, it was a Home For The Holidays show, but it was the only venue they played at in NYC back in that time period. For the SFAM tour they jumped up to the Roseland Ballroom, which closed shortly after and I think they’ve been playing the Beacon up there for a while, but they haven’t been back to Irving Plaza for 2 decades. Same in Boston; while they aren’t in TD Bank Garden, they’ve bounced around from theatre to theatre stepping up over time. 

I just saw that they’ll be in Orlando later this month, I’ll peek at the setlist and see if it’s something I want to make the drive for. Coming back to Ft Lauderdale after a show in Orlando can be rough….especially a 3-hour DT show.


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## StevenC (Mar 7, 2022)

Dream Theater haven't played in Ireland since 2002


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## AMOS (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm willing to bet they have a harmonizer on Labrie's voice


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 7, 2022)

The Mirror said:


> For DT I'd let pass aynthing up to Awake as "old" (since Kevin Moore left after that), which means only 6:00 is a track I am absolutely familiar with (having dropped the band around Octavarium / Systematic Chaos).
> 
> That all said I have no problem with newer tracks, I guess I just miss Portnoy's heavy influence on the setlists. Even though it was quite a torture for the band, having a constant rotating setlist with at least one new track on every show of the leg makes it actually worthwhile to follow the band to more then one gig.



'Old' is relative, but even if we exclude 6:00, all those other songs are between 11 and 20 years old. All but one of them are 15+. They're not representative of DT's new identity anymore, unlike a decade ago when it was relevant to use pre/post-Octivarium as an inflection point. Those tracks have become part of the legacy catalogue at this point.

The irony of Portnoy's influence on the setlists is that it matters more now than ever. You can look up a band's tour setlist in an instant, plus bands make a greater share of their revenue on the road than anywhere else in the business, so it matters that fans turn out. Anyway, don't get me griping about the fall down effects of Portnoy's departure or I'll become the old man.



StevenC said:


> Dream Theater haven't played in Ireland since 2002



In normal circumstances, do you catch a plane/ferry to one of the England shows or just skip it altogether? Rural Canada was always bad for that but the transport system was so terrible that you couldn't get to Montreal or Toronto for anything less than a few hundred dollars. The UK is much better connected by contrast (which nevertheless will not save it from my bitching about exorbitant rail prices, but I digress).


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## StevenC (Mar 7, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> In normal circumstances, do you catch a plane/ferry to one of the England shows or just skip it altogether? Rural Canada was always bad for that but the transport system was so terrible that you couldn't get to Montreal or Toronto for anything less than a few hundred dollars. The UK is much better connected by contrast (which nevertheless will not save it from my bitching about exorbitant rail prices, but I digress).


I've never been to see Dream Theater because their shows, iirc, have always been like Wednesdays and Thursdays, so not worth taking two days off for. But yeah, if I'm going to a concert I'll fly over to one of the dates, stay the night and fly back the next day. 

It's usually a bit excessive though. For example, I had booked the Haken shows last weekend that were cancelled, but was going to two shows and making a weekend out of it by visiting my sister for her birthday. And I like Haken way more than modern Dream Theater. The only other times I've actually gone for a single concert was King Crimson because I was off work anyway. Same with the upcoming Meshuggah and Jacob Collier shows in London in June. 

It can be done reasonably, but it's still an extra few hundred pounds in travel and hotel. Whereas I wouldn't bat an eye to drive 100 miles to Dublin and back again afterwards.


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## mastapimp (Mar 7, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> As a South Floridian, we really get the shit end of the stick when it comes to touring. Occasionally we get some bigger acts coming down, Trivium played here a couple years ago but most likely because Paulo was still living here than and it was a hometown show at that point. They haven’t been back since he left. Sevendust generally comes through twice while they’re on a tour cycle. Anything bigger than a 1,000 seat venue goes to West Palm Beach and it seems only Slipknot gives enough of a shit to make sure they get down here.
> 
> I first saw DT at Irving Plaza in NYC, it was a Home For The Holidays show, but it was the only venue they played at in NYC back in that time period. For the SFAM tour they jumped up to the Roseland Ballroom, which closed shortly after and I think they’ve been playing the Beacon up there for a while, but they haven’t been back to Irving Plaza for 2 decades. Same in Boston; while they aren’t in TD Bank Garden, they’ve bounced around from theatre to theatre stepping up over time.
> 
> I just saw that they’ll be in Orlando later this month, I’ll peek at the setlist and see if it’s something I want to make the drive for. Coming back to Ft Lauderdale after a show in Orlando can be rough….especially a 3-hour DT show.


Yeah, you could make the case for a lot of Florida missing out. I've made same-day trips in my youth to Atlanta and back to see bands a few times and nearly fallen asleep at the wheel.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 7, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> In normal circumstances, do you catch a plane/ferry to one of the England shows or just skip it altogether? Rural Canada was always bad for that but the transport system was so terrible that you couldn't get to Montreal or Toronto for anything less than a few hundred dollars. The UK is much better connected by contrast (which nevertheless will not save it from my bitching about exorbitant rail prices, but I digress).



Most tours we skip since it gets costly flying over and staying in England. I’ve done it a lot over the years to see bands that wouldn’t play here(Periphery, BTBAM) or doing a special show(opeth royal Albert hall). Instead of paying a lot to travel to and from gigs most people here save up to go to the European Summer festivals like Wacken and Hellfest where you can cross off 10-20+ bands on your list.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 7, 2022)

StevenC said:


> It's usually a bit excessive though. For example, I had booked the Haken shows last weekend that were cancelled, but was going to two shows and making a weekend out of it by visiting my sister for her birthday. And I like Haken way more than modern Dream Theater. The only other times I've actually gone for a single concert was King Crimson because I was off work anyway. Same with the upcoming Meshuggah and Jacob Collier shows in London in June.
> 
> It can be done reasonably, but it's still an extra few hundred pounds in travel and hotel. Whereas I wouldn't bat an eye to drive 100 miles to Dublin and back again afterwards.



Yeah, I know what you mean. I only live about 1.5 hours away from London but there's been times where I'd have rathered get a hotel than catch a train back at midnight or whatever and be back in bed by 2am. I never do it, though, because it's like £100/night. 

I must've missed the news that Meshuggah was coming. I saw them in London on their last tour and it was great. Looks like they're playing RAH this time, which is a step up from the O2 Forum Kentish Town. Might have to have a look at getting tickets as there's still a few left in the upper rows. Did you snag a good spot?


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 7, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Most tours we skip since it gets costly flying over and staying in England. I’ve done it a lot over the years to see bands that wouldn’t play here(Periphery, BTBAM) or doing a special show(opeth royal Albert hall). Instead of paying a lot to travel to and from gigs most people here save up to go to the European Summer festivals like Wacken and Hellfest where you can cross off 10-20+ bands on your list.



I've never done the festival thing. I want to try it but it seems like the quality suffers a bit and the bands get shorter sets. How do you like it compared to concerts at venues?

Speaking of which, I just noticed DT is playing Wembley?? I think that's a first. Even if they cordon off areas, I wonder how big the draw will be. Last time through they were at the Hammersmith Apollo, which is like 3300 seats.


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## StevenC (Mar 7, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean. I only live about 1.5 hours away from London but there's been times where I'd have rathered get a hotel than catch a train back at midnight or whatever and be back in bed by 2am. I never do it, though, because it's like £100/night.
> 
> I must've missed the news that Meshuggah was coming. I saw them in London on their last tour and it was great. Looks like they're playing RAH this time, which is a step up from the O2 Forum Kentish Town. Might have to have a look at getting tickets as there's still a few left in the upper rows. Did you snag a good spot?


I got 4 tickets in the centre facing the stage, in the first row of the stands. RAH website usually spits out random seats and you wait for a good offer. I've seen Meshuggah in a small club before, so wanted to get a wider view of the spectacle. And I'm too broken for standing concerts anymore. Super excited for it. Tempted to go to Dublin as well and stay on @Lorcan Ward's couch.

Dream Theater played Wembley a few years ago I believe.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 7, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> I've never done the festival thing. I want to try it but it seems like the quality suffers a bit and the bands get shorter sets. How do you like it compared to concerts at venues?



I love festivals. Some of my favourite and most memorable live shows were at them. Getting to see a bunch of metal bands from all over the world play in one weekend while drinking beer and meeting like minded people is worth the nastiness of living in a tent, eating fast food and not being able to wash until you get home. The quality is up and down. Some bands get amazing sound and give it their all while some bands don’t want to be there and show it. But the joy is being in the crowd. 50,000 people singing Blind Guardian or a moshpit with a couple of thousand people jumping around to Fintroll. Then when the day ends and you reluctantly walk back to the campsite you know you’ve all just witnessed an amazing event together. 

I couldn’t do it now though. I’m crippled if I sleep in the wrong bed, no way I’d handle a tent. Plus I got food poisoning at Download festival and swore to never go to a festival again. That was easily one of the worst experiences of my life. If I did it now I’d stay in a hotel.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 7, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I got 4 tickets in the centre facing the stage, in the first row of the stands. RAH website usually spits out random seats and you wait for a good offer. I've seen Meshuggah in a small club before, so wanted to get a wider view of the spectacle. And I'm too broken for standing concerts anymore. Super excited for it. Tempted to go to Dublin as well and stay on @Lorcan Ward's couch.
> 
> Dream Theater played Wembley a few years ago I believe.



Nice. Yeah, I just lucked out and got 4th row in the stalls just off the floor; I initially overlooked a pair of seats down there when I first checked the tickets.
Thanks for reminding me when you did!

I've been to RAH about a dozen times over the years and have sat all over. There isn't really a bad seat in the house for the orchestra in my opinion but this will be my first metal show there. Last time I saw Meshuggah I remember thinking it would've been nice to be farther back for the laser show.



Lorcan Ward said:


> I love festivals. Some of my favourite and most memorable live shows were at them. Getting to see a bunch of metal bands from all over the world play in one weekend while drinking beer and meeting like minded people is worth the nastiness of living in a tent, eating fast food and not being able to wash until you get home. The quality is up and down. Some bands get amazing sound and give it their all while some bands don’t want to be there and show it. But the joy is being in the crowd. 50,000 people singing Blind Guardian or a moshpit with a couple of thousand people jumping around to Fintroll. Then when the day ends and you reluctantly walk back to the campsite you know you’ve all just witnessed an amazing event together.
> 
> I couldn’t do it now though. I’m crippled if I sleep in the wrong bed, no way I’d handle a tent. Plus I got food poisoning at Download festival and swore to never go to a festival again. That was easily one of the worst experiences of my life. If I did it now I’d stay in a hotel.



Sounds like my dream as a teenager, haha. My mind was blown when I saw footage of Wacken back in the day. Sadly, I tend to agree with your second paragraph these days. No way my girlfriend is slumming it in a tent with me, much as she likes metal shows. I don't regret it too much aside from the fact some bands (e.g. Maiden) only play the festival circuit now. 

Food poisoning whilst trapped in a tent in a field without proper amenities sounds like utter hell. You pay extra for the Bruce Dickinson world war LARP experience, or what?


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## Alberto7 (Mar 7, 2022)

For transparency, i only skimmed through the first couple of pages of this thread.

I saw them when they stopped over in Montreal last Tuesday. The show was honestly really good. Took my girlfriend with me, she'd never heard Dream Theater, and she LOVED it. Now I'm teaching her Endless Sacrifice on the guitar, and she's going through a lot more of their songs.  

Regarding the thread's title, yeah Labrie was definitely using pre-recorded vocals for some sections. His mic kinda messed up and cut out for a moment during the very end of The Count of Tuscany. He got visibly pissed and made a sign to the sound guy, but his voice kept coming out of the speakers even though he wasn't singing for a couple of seconds.

In all honesty, I did not care that he may be miming some parts in some songs. He's very clearly singing the rest. His fuckups are still there. But to me that's just kinda the charm of a live gig. It's always a bit different. These guys aren't robots (much as they appear to be sometimes  ), and they are definitely not getting any younger.

It was a good gig and the energy was awesome. The Montreal crowd kinda sucked though  my girlfriend and I were going nuts screaming stuff, and everyone else just kinda stood there. The first time I saw them live in Madrid in 2009 the crowd was nuts. Very different.


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## AMOS (Mar 7, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Dream Theater haven't played in Ireland since 2002


Because Petrucci is a big whiskey/bourbon fan and you guys don't save him any


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## ArtDecade (Mar 7, 2022)

Petrucci looks like a guy that would start weeping when he puts away too much whiskey.


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## Emperoff (Mar 7, 2022)

Late to the party and definetely enjoying the trainweck. Pretty much every Dream Theater fan I've ever talked to enters in zealot mode whenever I mention LaBrie was never fit to be in that band. So this is no surprise.

Metalheads are quick to bash autotune, but they seem to be ok with pre-recorded vocal tracks which is something I don't really understand unless it's a critical part of your music (Evanescence comes to mind). Some people have been paying attention after this video showed up, and reporting they seem to be using pre-recorded vocal lines for the entire show running at a lower volume, so they can sing on top (or pretend to, like Petrucci). Fuck that.


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## AMOS (Mar 7, 2022)

I've always been a huge DT fan but I admit Labrie has always been the weak link. He sounds terrible at times, and it's not fair to the other four that work very hard.


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## Thaeon (Mar 7, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I imagine that hardcore Dream Theater fans are upset because they expect a highly technical band to be able to pull off technical parts, including the singing. I don't have a dog in this race. Personally, I think DT is so hyper-technical that they forgot how to write a good song decades ago.



DT hasn't done anything new since the 90s. Its all treading the same ground.



AMOS said:


> I've always been a huge DT fan but I admit Labrie has always been the weak link. He sounds terrible at times, and it's not fair to the other four that work very hard.



I don't think that James doesn't work hard. His body is a limitation and voices deteriorate as you get older. You can only slow it down. That said, I think he's attempting to sing at his extreme range far too much which sets himself up for failure.


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## StevenC (Mar 7, 2022)

James Labrie is just an easy target to distract from the fact they haven't written good music in over 20 years. People just want to jerk off to unmusical unison solos or whatever, and the one guy in the band who isn't overindulging is the problem.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 7, 2022)

Look, we are all guitar players so we have a bias. But surely there is some dude out there that is a massive fan of Labrie's voice and he just shows up to hear that dude croak his way through 19 minute prog songs. Poor guy.


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## StevenC (Mar 7, 2022)

I like Labrie's voice in the state it's currently in far more than any of the noises Ruddess has made while in the band


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 7, 2022)

bubingaisgod said:


> It's like shitting on James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine for not being at the top of their game at their age.
> Not saying the music is even remotely comparable from either end, but jeez cut the dude some slack. I doubt many of us could do better over 20+ years.
> 
> Now his wardrobe is fair game lol.


Excuse me, but Mustaine is still absolutely slaying it. Now he’s recovered from throat cancer I think his 2022 voice is as good as it’s ever been.


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## Emperoff (Mar 7, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Excuse me, but Mustaine is still absolutely slaying it. Now he’s recovered from throat cancer I think his 2022 voice is as good as it’s ever been.



Damn right. Which means as terrible as always 



bubingaisgod said:


> It's like shitting on James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine for not being at the top of their game at their age.



Considering Mustaine was always a terrible vocalist, decent guitar player and great songwriter, he's still all of that. Kinda the same deal with Hetfield. LaBrie ranged from "not good enough" to "ewwww", and he doesn't even play super fast and complex guitar riffs while singing like the examples you mentioned.

Looks like Papa Het is doing just fine without fake singing:


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## Lax (Mar 8, 2022)

j3ps3 said:


> Prime example of whataboutism


I allow myself to disagree, at least partly

I agree about : I'm not fond of a technical band lip syncing

I quoted then famous decayed singers because the root of the problem are age and body limits (not drugs related for labrie, but still fucked up).
I would totally be fine if a youngster replaced labrie, most live videos on youtube makes me buy shows tickets with anxiety.

So in the end, if labrie stays, then I prefer every F# to be lip doubled !


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## StevenC (Mar 8, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Labrie ranged from "not good enough" to "ewwww"


When people say things like this are they talking about his whole time in the band or just live? 

Because obviously this can't be referring to performances on his first 3 albums with Dream Theater. That's some of the best singing ever.


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## r33per (Mar 8, 2022)

We should ask Mike Portnoy.


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## bostjan (Mar 8, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I like Labrie's voice in the state it's currently in far more than any of the noises Ruddess has made while in the band


Rudess: Say that again!





*Cartoony shotgun cocking MIDI sound effect*


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## Giest (Mar 8, 2022)

I've seen DT three times live, they were fine. LaBrie could not be more underwhelming to me personally, honestly I've been hoping his voice would go and he would leave the band eventually. I don't think it's the syncing that matters so much as the deception toward the audience. 

If you can't do it anymore then quit or change, don't just take money for a fake performance. That's low.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 8, 2022)

Getting back to the original video, I watched it again and it doesn't really explain its proof of the lip-syncing. 

In Petrucci's case, no one is near the microphone for him to be singing there. Open and shut on that one. In LaBrie's case, I think the video was trying to show that he closes his mouth and pulls his head back from the microphone a bit with no audible change in the vocals. The video then shows the chorus again from later in the song and with LaBrie's back to the camera. Not really sure why...I guess the implication was that the chorus sounds the same both times so it must be fake? 

It's admittedly not very strong evidence of anything. When I first saw it, I was reacting on LaBrie's initial pull away from the mic as the reason why this could be credible. It's hard to tell from the quality of the video though. Is that at least what the video is alleging? LaBrie pulled away too early so it must be fake?


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## Avedas (Mar 9, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Not really sure why...I guess the implication was that the chorus sounds the same both times so it must be fake?


Assuming the footage hasn't been doctored, I think that would be the case. The chorus sounds completely identical which is already hard enough, but he's in a completely different body position while doing it, which has a huge effect on your voice.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Mar 10, 2022)

They were better when they did less showing off.

Awake is the best Dream Theater album.

I love Jordan Rudess but I don't like his playing.

But Viper King slapps hard.


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## bostjan (Mar 10, 2022)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> But Viper King slapps hard.


I read that as Rex Viper for some reason, speaking of concerts that go poorly and personalities that people are pressuring to retire.

And if you don't get that reference, don't bother looking it up.


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## bubingaisgod (Mar 10, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Damn right. Which means as terrible as always
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dude I have nothing but love for those bands, Rust In Peace was the first album I ever bought at K-Mart when I was 10 years old.
My grandma literally threw holy water at me when she heard it. Just substitute any singer who's toured for 20+ years and may not be at the level they once were, it's not meant to be a comparison and I said as much in my comment. I don't even listen to Dream Theater anymore, it was a phase in high school so I really don't care that much to simp for James LaBrie. I just know how I feel after some modest touring when I was younger, and a lot of years of bodily abuse lol


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## LiveOVErdrive (Mar 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I read that as Rex Viper for some reason, speaking of concerts that go poorly and personalities that people are pressuring to retire.
> 
> And if you don't get that reference, don't bother looking it up.


They did a concert? I figured it was just a fun youtube thing for a guy who can do whatever he wants on the internet now.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 11, 2022)

I did not think I'd live long enough to see anyone compare and praise Mustaine against Labrie 

I dislike James' voice as much as the next guy, but jesus.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Mar 11, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I did not think I'd live long enough to see anyone compare and praise Mustaine against Labrie
> 
> I dislike James' voice as much as the next guy, but jesus.


"don't cross the crooked step" sounds like Mustaine anyway. 

I like Labrie though.


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## Furtive Glance (Mar 11, 2022)




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## ImNotAhab (Mar 11, 2022)

Im sure someone else mentioned it but I wonder would tuning a step down help out? A lot of older acts do it to take the strain off the pipes.


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## Matt08642 (Mar 12, 2022)

ImNotAhab said:


> Im sure someone else mentioned it but I wonder would tuning a step down help out? A lot of older acts do it to take the strain off the pipes.



As great as Jordan is, wouldn't it be quite a task to transpose all his stuff down to match? I know nothing about playing keys though.

EDIT: I am so fucking dumb, it's all digital and you can just set it to whatever you want


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 12, 2022)

ImNotAhab said:


> Im sure someone else mentioned it but I wonder would tuning a step down help out? A lot of older acts do it to take the strain off the pipes.



Some newer bands even do this. Dragonforce would record in E and play in Eb. Sonata Arctica would play some songs as much as one and a half steps down to make it easier for their singer. Trivium play their drop D material in Drop Db/C#


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## StevenC (Mar 12, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> As great as Jordan is, wouldn't it be quite a task to transpose all his stuff down to match? I know nothing about playing keys though.
> 
> EDIT: I am so fucking dumb, it's all digital and you can just set it to whatever you want


Yeah, this is exactly what happened on the Images and Words tour. Jordan just set the keyboard flat a half step. Though he said it really messed with him trying to play along to the old music that the band was playing flat, while his hands were playing it in regular tuning, but then it was coming out flat as well.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 21, 2022)




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## RevDrucifer (Mar 21, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>












DREAM THEATER's JAMES LABRIE Lashes Out Over Lip-Sync Allegations: 'F**k You'


DREAM THEATER singer James LaBrie has pushed back against allegations that he uses pre-recorded vocal tracks during live performances. The rumor that LaBrie has been relying on pre-recorded backing tracks gained strength last month after fan videos of DREAM THEATER's current North American tour...




www.blabbermouth.net





Now ya guys have done it, ya pissed off James LaBrie. He’s gonna come into SSO doing that spinning move he did on the Live In Tokyo DVD and no one’s gonna be able to stop him.


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## bostjan (Mar 21, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Comment section gold:



Jay G3 said:


> good thing james said he isn’t lip syncing - now i know he isn’t. Except for the footage of him doing it on every performance of bridges in the sky this tour. outside of that hes definitely right.





Benji said:


> The vidoe was cut short but I was there and yelled "lip syncher"! At him as the next song was starting





Science & Nature said:


> He is right, his lips ar not in sync


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## works0fheart (Mar 21, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> DT fans are only there for musician Olympics. So they get mad when they feel that DT are using PEDs. IE anything that might make the show not a mechanical robotic snooze fest- ha got’em!



I remember when Alexi said basically this and the internet about imploded on itself.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 21, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You accept mediocrity and accept it as a great show. Gross.


It's a show. If the people are entertainined then that's the whole point.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 22, 2022)

James: "I'm not faking. I am the real deal. Fuck the haters."
Haters: "We wish you would fake it. You can't sing."


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 22, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> I remember when Alexi said basically this and the internet about imploded on itself.



Easy to snipe at Alexi in that regard since he had a reputation for being a talented but frequently sloppy player. Which I think made it worse because no one could ever say Alexi was bad, he just didn't care about being accurate live. At that point he had his own fans criticizing him and not just DT's, especially because it was an unsolicited remark to start with. Dream Theater never had enough of a following to cause that reaction on their own.

As for LaBrie, did not expect him to address it. The proof of the lip-syncing was a bit shaky to start with, it might've blown over with time. What's funny is this video looks more lip-synced than the clip of the song 

Has there been more convincing clips released yet? Wasn't really sold on the first one.

EDIT: Missed the part where James says he's singing the lower octave to the backing track. In other words, not lip-syncing in the strictest sense but fans were right that he wasn't singing the lead in that part. I guess that puts an end to the speculation.


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## RevDrucifer (Mar 22, 2022)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Easy to snipe at Alexi in that regard since he had a reputation for being a talented but frequently sloppy player. Which I think made it worse because no one could ever say Alexi was bad, he just didn't care about being accurate live. At that point he had his own fans criticizing him and not just DT's, especially because it was an unsolicited remark to start with. Dream Theater never had enough of a following to cause that reaction on their own.
> 
> As for LaBrie, did not expect him to address it. The proof of the lip-syncing was a bit shaky to start with, it might've blown over with time. What's funny is this video looks more lip-synced than the clip of the song
> 
> ...



Can’t say I hear a lower harmony coming out of the PA, but I‘m also listening on an ipad.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Petrucci stop miming the background vocals after this. Maybe I’m just being hopeful for the 1-2x every few months I check out live DT vids.

Also: Next DT tour they unleash James Anselmo who comes out to rant and bitch at the audience about things he doesn’t like.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 22, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> It's a show. If the people are entertainined then that's the whole point.



The type of dude to get tickets then pull a charge back because the performance "wasn't as described" 

Also Alexi was fucking awesome, he messed up regularly but literally no one I knew that fucked with Bodom complained nor cared. The obsession with a perfect performance played with zero production value and just raw audio is a thing of the past. Tech is intertwined with music more than ever, and it's a net positive at the end of the day.

Shows back in the day were awesome too and had their charm, like thrash bands playing tracks 20bpm faster than the recording. We're not in that day and age anymore though and people just need to learn to live with that.


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## RevDrucifer (Mar 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> The type of dude to get tickets then pull a charge back because the performance "wasn't as described"
> 
> Also Alexi was fucking awesome, he messed up regularly but literally no one I knew that fucked with Bodom complained nor cared. The obsession with a perfect performance played with zero production value and just raw audio is a thing of the past. Tech is intertwined with music more than ever, and it's a net positive at the end of the day.
> 
> Shows back in the day were awesome too and had their charm, like thrash bands playing tracks 20bpm faster than the recording. We're not in that day and age anymore though and people just need to learn to live with that.



I’d much rather stop supporting any bands who blatantly use backing tracks than “live with it”, If I wanted to have an experience like listening to an album, I’d listen to the album. It’s the total opposite reason I go to live shows.

If there were a stronger case than “We just want to sound more like the record without putting the effort into it” I might think of it differently, but when a band like Ice Nine Kills with what, 5 members(?) gets up onstage and is still relying on tracks for backing vocals, GTFO, go fucking practice that shit. At the same show (Rockville) I saw Chevelle get up there with 3 dudes, no tracks and killed it, to the point I dug their set enough I actually got some of their albums to check out. As soon as I realized Ice Nine Kills had all their backing vocals on tracks I dipped and got in line for a hoodie or something.

Like I’ve said previously, I have no problems with it if it’s a choir, orchestra or a shitload of keyboard tracks, but when you have enough people onstage that with a bit of practice can achieve the same thing it’s straight up lame. Fit For A King had their guitars and bass on backing tracks to the point you couldn’t even hear if the guitar player was coming through the PA or not. Sure, they get to jump around a lot more, but that’s not what I go to shows for.

”Shows were awesome back in the day”…..because people were actually taking pride in their work and busting their asses to pull it off instead of letting a laptop carry the heavy lifting.


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## Sermo Lupi (Mar 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Also Alexi was fucking awesome, he messed up regularly but literally no one I knew that fucked with Bodom complained nor cared.



I cared. Not enough to complain, but when you're a fan of a player and want to see them get the credit they deserve, it undermines your efforts when the conversations go "no, not that video...not that one either...yeah, I don't know, maybe he was drunk...look, just put on this show from South Korea in 2001."


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## StevenC (Mar 22, 2022)

You guys ever see Haken live? Now there's a band that doesn't use backing tracks for vocals.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 22, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I’d much rather stop supporting any bands who blatantly use backing tracks than “live with it”, If I wanted to have an experience like listening to an album, I’d listen to the album. It’s the total opposite reason I go to live shows.
> 
> If there were a stronger case than “We just want to sound more like the record without putting the effort into it” I might think of it differently, but when a band like Ice Nine Kills with what, 5 members(?) gets up onstage and is still relying on tracks for backing vocals, GTFO, go fucking practice that shit. At the same show (Rockville) I saw Chevelle get up there with 3 dudes, no tracks and killed it, to the point I dug their set enough I actually got some of their albums to check out. As soon as I realized Ice Nine Kills had all their backing vocals on tracks I dipped and got in line for a hoodie or something.
> 
> ...



You will have a hard time enjoying live performances moving forward with I guess.

Everyone takes pride in their work, even folks who work on production and setting up on the rails performances. This is such a one dimensional way to look at it, but yeah Chevelle and other standout Hardcore bands pull off killer live performances without using/relying on backing tracks. Sounds like a scene you can enjoy a little more than others. 

I go to shows to have a good time, I used to care about this stuff as much as some folks do but I don't go unless it's a band I love and so long as they perform I couldn't care less if their bass player is absent and it's the raw recorded track of their bassist or whatever.

It's also equally easy to do the research and simply say I won't be going to this show for x/y/z reasons like the ones that irk you the most.



Sermo Lupi said:


> I cared. Not enough to complain, but when you're a fan of a player and want to see them get the credit they deserve, it undermines your efforts when the conversations go "no, not that video...not that one either...yeah, I don't know, maybe he was drunk...look, just put on this show from South Korea in 2001."



Fair enough, I was coming from the angle that me and my buddies were having fun singing along and jamming out to them.

I can even appreciate your standpoint, I have video recordings of bands I went to see and was disappointed in (P2 - P3 era Periphery). I remember Spencer not quite hitting that high note in Ragnarok and being a bit bummed about it but thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the show. It was nothing more than a fleeting, "damn dude" moment.


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## AMOS (Mar 22, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> James: "I'm not faking. I am the real deal. Fuck the haters."
> Haters: "We wish you would fake it. You can't sing."


I think Labrie should step aside for the sake of the band. Everyone else practices their asses off and have something to show for it. Labrie has been the weak link for as long as I can remember.


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## AMOS (Mar 22, 2022)

Alexi was always drunk back when he said what he did, so he probably wasn't capable of doing a show without mistakes. COB is still my favorite metal band however.


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## RevelGTR (Mar 22, 2022)

If they were going to replace Labrie the time would’ve been after SDOIT like Portnoy wanted. That way they would’ve been able to have the new singer on “hits” like Panic Attack and As I Am, as well as tons of fan favorites. The new singer would’ve been part of the DNA of Dream Theater. Getting someone now would just be a hired gun and would hurt them as a legacy band.


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## AMOS (Mar 22, 2022)

RevelGTR said:


> If they were going to replace Labrie the time would’ve been after SDOIT like Portnoy wanted. That way they would’ve been able to have the new singer on “hits” like Panic Attack and As I Am, as well as tons of fan favorites. The new singer would’ve been part of the DNA of Dream Theater. Getting someone now would just be a hired gun and would hurt them as a legacy band.


Yes has had many members and their core supporters still worship them.


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## Alberto7 (Mar 22, 2022)

Idk there's too much drama here. I feel like people care too much and think about it too much. There's a line to be drawn somewhere, sure, but I don't think DT are anywhere near that line, especially considering these guys are starting to get old and that this is their livelihood.

When I saw them 3-4 weeks ago, they put on a hell of a show. LaBrie may or may not be lip sync'ing some parts, but even my non-fan girlfriend absolutely loved his stage presence, and I agree. All of them have real good presence on stage given the music they play/sing.

I could never hope to be a spokesperson for drag, and this is one exaggerated comparison, but if drag queens have proven something relevant to this discussion, is that you can put on a hell of a show while lip sync'ing the fuck out of the music.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 22, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> Idk there's too much drama here. I feel like people care too much and think about it too much. There's a line to be drawn somewhere, sure, but I don't think DT are anywhere near that line, especially considering these guys are starting to get old and that this is their livelihood.
> 
> When I saw them 3-4 weeks ago, they put on a hell of a show. LaBrie may or may not be lip sync'ing some parts, but even my non-fan girlfriend absolutely loved his stage presence, and I agree. All of them have real good presence on stage given the music they play/sing.
> 
> I could never hope to be a spokesperson for drag, and this is one exaggerated comparison, but if drag queens have proven something relevant to this discussion, is that you can put on a hell of a show while lip sync'ing the fuck out of the music.


And as a former drag queen, I approve this message.

I can bet you I've made far more money lip syncing other people's shit at clubs than a lot of DT naysayers have made in their bands with their "real live vocals"..,.and I can draw a bigger crowd.


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## works0fheart (Mar 22, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Alexi was always drunk back when he said what he did, so he probably wasn't capable of doing a show without mistakes. COB is still my favorite metal band however.



I'm one of the people that was very critical of Alexi when he was playing sloppy as hell around the AYDY/Blooddrunk era. I will say he had no room to talk about anyone's live performance at the time, but (I know this is subjective) his music is/was infinitely more enjoyable to me than a single thing Dream Theater have ever recorded. That's just me. I'm not faulting anyone for liking what they like. However, towards the end of the CoB days and even in Bodom After Midnight, Alexi was back to playing super tight live again. Not that John Petrucci or the rest of DT isn't tight live, but I can't respect any singer who lip syncs. In Flames used to be one of my favorite bands and I've never been able to get into them live as much because Anders just doesn't seem like he cares how he sounds. Hell, some of my favorite live bands I like just because the singer is so much better live (Riley from Allegaeon, Angela in Arch Enemy) and sometimes these are bands that I don't even listen to often but I'll never miss one of their shows. 

Being genuine goes a long way for me. Even if someone is sloppy live I can respect that more than someone who fakes it, although I'd rather see neither.


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## StevenC (Mar 22, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Yes has had many members and their core supporters still worship them.


I've actively missed Yes shows for the last decade because the lineup doesn't appeal to me. And I bought Fly From Here twice. They're doing a Relayer tour (top 5 or 10 album for me) and I'm not going because Steve Howe and Geoff Downes isn't enough for me.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 22, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> I'm one of the people that was very critical of Alexi when he was playing sloppy as hell around the AYDY/Blooddrunk era. I will say he had no room to talk about anyone's live performance at the time, but (I know this is subjective) his music is/was infinitely more enjoyable to me than a single thing Dream Theater have ever recorded. That's just me. I'm not faulting anyone for liking what they like. However, towards the end of the CoB days and even in Bodom After Midnight, Alexi was back to playing super tight live again. Not that John Petrucci or the rest of DT isn't tight live, but I can't respect any singer who lip syncs. In Flames used to be one of my favorite bands and I've never been able to get into them live as much because Anders just doesn't seem like he cares how he sounds. Hell, some of my favorite live bands I like just because the singer is so much better live (Riley from Allegaeon, Angela in Arch Enemy) and sometimes these are bands that I don't even listen to often but I'll never miss one of their shows.
> 
> Being genuine goes a long way for me. Even if someone is sloppy live I can respect that more than someone who fakes it, although I'd rather see neither.


It's a rock show...it's supposed to be sloppy.

I miss G.G. Allin, Wendy O Williams, Marilyn Manson, etc.

Shit might explode, band members might get hurt, shit might catch fire, everyone may be drunk and high out of their minds. 

There SHOULD be an element of danger to a rock show, that's what makes it good. If you want perfection, listen to the goddamn album. A live show is for intense energy


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 22, 2022)

I miss WOW too. Her first solo album was great, and the Plasmatics were as well.


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## bostjan (Mar 23, 2022)

Yes, this whole thing is dumb, but, man, DT was once my favourite band, and now they are just reduced to new records that sound suspiciously like the old records, set lists no one wants, lame lip-synching, and now pseudo-defensive call-outs that halfassedly admit to the lip-synching.

Maybe if JP had picked up that eight string a decade earlier, or if they would have been more willing to work around MP's schedule, or if JL hadn't barfed up that shrimp, or if someone had told Steve Stone they were playing in Bay Shore, or any other what if ... the band could have been the next Metallica, but it's progressive metal, so there's really no where else to go except down.


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## wheresthefbomb (Mar 23, 2022)

how long do we think it's gonna be before Kidz Bop is touring As I Am ?


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## Alberto7 (Mar 23, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Yes, this whole thing is dumb, but, man, DT was once my favourite band, and now they are just reduced to new records that sound suspiciously like the old records, set lists no one wants, lame lip-synching, and now pseudo-defensive call-outs that halfassedly admit to the lip-synching.
> 
> Maybe if JP had picked up that eight string a decade earlier, or if they would have been more willing to work around MP's schedule, or if JL hadn't barfed up that shrimp, or if someone had told Steve Stone they were playing in Bay Shore, or any other what if ... the band could have been the next Metallica, but it's progressive metal, so there's really no where else to go except down.


I mean, that's pretty much like every band ever that has been playing for over 15-20+ years 

I agree that I prefer their older albums, but I still enjoy their new stuff for what it is, and they do put out good bangers here and there, so I don't really mind too much.


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 23, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I did not think I'd live long enough to see anyone compare and praise Mustaine against Labrie
> 
> I dislike James' voice as much as the next guy, but jesus.



But Mustaine is awesome. He's consistent at least. His voice perfectly matches the music - can you imagine it any other way? And live he basically sounds like the album. You rarely get anything out of tune either. And he does it all while playing riffs.

LaBrie basically can't match a lot of stuff from albums any more. He's constantly out of tune. To a band and audience of people into music, harmony etc it's just embarrassing. His bad singing has become a meme. He's very clearly the weakest link in the band. And now he's lip-syncing and making lame excuses. It's clear that his voice does not match the music any more because singing the damn melody is the most important part and he can't do it! I feel bad for him, because I'm sure he knows this too.

I also don't think at any point people were saying that Mustaine could do LaBrie's job and front DT. But IMO the job of a vocalist is to put on a good performance which is consistent with the recorded music. Your other job is a be a good frontman. By that definition, there's a pretty clear winner out of Mustaine and LaBrie.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 23, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> But Mustaine is awesome. He's consistent at least. His voice perfectly matches the music - can you imagine it any other way?


Why yes...yes I can. An actual singer might make Megadeth actually listenable


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 23, 2022)

I know people hate Labrie's voice, but are we seriously praising Mustaine in here?  Dude sounded fucking BAD during those Big 4 shows 10 years ago, which is why they started tuning down a whole step.


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## bostjan (Mar 23, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> I mean, that's pretty much like every band ever that has been playing for over 15-20+ years
> 
> I agree that I prefer their older albums, but I still enjoy their new stuff for what it is, and they do put out good bangers here and there, so I don't really mind too much.


Which newer songs are "bangers?"

I enjoyed _A Dramatic Turn of Events_ and even a couple moments from their self titled release, but those were both about ten years ago, and, not that the more recent stuff is bad, but I think it's more or less universally understood that none of the last three albums stands near their best material nor even the status quo material from their earlier career.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 23, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> But Mustaine is awesome. He's consistent at least. His voice perfectly matches the music - can you imagine it any other way? And live he basically sounds like the album. You rarely get anything out of tune either. And he does it all while playing riffs.
> 
> LaBrie basically can't match a lot of stuff from albums any more. He's constantly out of tune. To a band and audience of people into music, harmony etc it's just embarrassing. His bad singing has become a meme. He's very clearly the weakest link in the band. And now he's lip-syncing and making lame excuses. It's clear that his voice does not match the music any more because singing the damn melody is the most important part and he can't do it! I feel bad for him, because I'm sure he knows this too.
> 
> I also don't think at any point people were saying that Mustaine could do LaBrie's job and front DT. But IMO the job of a vocalist is to put on a good performance which is consistent with the recorded music. Your other job is a be a good frontman. By that definition, there's a pretty clear winner out of Mustaine and LaBrie.


So just to reiterate -

We're rating a vocalist on their Merit, Ability, Consistency (With their recordings??), and overall holding of a tune?



This is the horse we're betting on? I would blindly bet on Labrie scoring higher on all methods of measurement. Playing guitar while singing is definitely not trivial, but giving props on Mustaine even being in tune let alone out of breath is showing some heavy bias here. And I've listened to and know Megadeth's first records by heart at this point, you learn to tolerate his voice and at times it even suits the vibe of the song. But come on, this is at least an accurate representation of how Labrie has aged with his voice and it didn't take much searching to find examples of his slip ups compared to him in the 90's.


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## bostjan (Mar 23, 2022)

The main argument I hear anti-Labrie, is that his voice doesn't fit the sound of the band. Personally, I've generally enjoyed his voice, when it was on.

People saying that they prefer Mustaine's voice is a bit weird to me, as well, seeing as how, well, Labrie is obviously someone who took the time to train his voice and perfect his craft, and Mustaine basically became the vocalist for Megadeth because no one else would do it the way Megadave wanted it to be done.

I think that the angle there is that Dave's vocals are a better fit for thrash than Labrie's vocals are for prog-metal? I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment 100%, but I feel like I kind of get it anyway.


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## AMOS (Mar 23, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> I'm one of the people that was very critical of Alexi when he was playing sloppy as hell around the AYDY/Blooddrunk era. I will say he had no room to talk about anyone's live performance at the time, but (I know this is subjective) his music is/was infinitely more enjoyable to me than a single thing Dream Theater have ever recorded. That's just me. I'm not faulting anyone for liking what they like. However, towards the end of the CoB days and even in Bodom After Midnight, Alexi was back to playing super tight live again. Not that John Petrucci or the rest of DT isn't tight live, but I can't respect any singer who lip syncs. In Flames used to be one of my favorite bands and I've never been able to get into them live as much because Anders just doesn't seem like he cares how he sounds. Hell, some of my favorite live bands I like just because the singer is so much better live (Riley from Allegaeon, Angela in Arch Enemy) and sometimes these are bands that I don't even listen to often but I'll never miss one of their shows.
> 
> Being genuine goes a long way for me. Even if someone is sloppy live I can respect that more than someone who fakes it, although I'd rather see neither.


Paint The Sky With Blood is killer, Laiho and Freyberg were both really good. I think overall Petrucci is just hands down a much better guitarist, his overall knowledge, tone and articulation are levels above the rest. Jeff Loomis is definitely getting better, as is Amott.


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## AMOS (Mar 23, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> But Mustaine is awesome. He's consistent at least. His voice perfectly matches the music - can you imagine it any other way? And live he basically sounds like the album. You rarely get anything out of tune either. And he does it all while playing riffs.
> 
> LaBrie basically can't match a lot of stuff from albums any more. He's constantly out of tune. To a band and audience of people into music, harmony etc it's just embarrassing. His bad singing has become a meme. He's very clearly the weakest link in the band. And now he's lip-syncing and making lame excuses. It's clear that his voice does not match the music any more because singing the damn melody is the most important part and he can't do it! I feel bad for him, because I'm sure he knows this too.
> 
> I also don't think at any point people were saying that Mustaine could do LaBrie's job and front DT. But IMO the job of a vocalist is to put on a good performance which is consistent with the recorded music. Your other job is a be a good frontman. By that definition, there's a pretty clear winner out of Mustaine and LaBrie.


Labrie should do what Vince Neil does, when a tough note comes up just stick the mic out into the crowd and let the fans sing it.


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## ArtDecade (Mar 23, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Labrie should do what Vince Neil does, when a tough note comes up just stick the mic out into the crowd and let the fans sing it.



I figured he was doing that so he could grab a bite of pizza - 500x per show.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 23, 2022)

This reminds me..Blackie Lawless has his guitarist/bassist sing certain parts of songs these days. Blackie still sounds amazing, and I'm fairly certain he could still do if it was in his favor but I guess it's easier to have the young buck hit certain notes. Doesn't take away from the show, even though it does make me a little sad, especially since Blackie's voice still seems to be all there


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 23, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Paint The Sky With Blood is killer, Laiho and Freyberg were both really good. I think overall Petrucci is just hands down a much better guitarist, his overall knowledge, tone and articulation are levels above the rest. Jeff Loomis is definitely getting better, as is Amott.


I find Petrucci’s skill to be impressive, but the product/result to be kind of boring. I’d much rather listen to Marty.


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## AMOS (Mar 23, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> This reminds me..Blackie Lawless has his guitarist/bassist sing certain parts of songs these days. Blackie still sounds amazing, and I'm fairly certain he could still do if it was in his favor but I guess it's easier to have the young buck hit certain notes. Doesn't take away from the show, even though it does make me a little sad, especially since Blackie's voice still seems to be all there


His old drummer Stet Howland is a good friend of mine, he can sing too!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 23, 2022)

(presses play, and moves mouth to the audio...) I think Blackie is doing the Paul Stanley these days as well.


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## STRHelvete (Mar 23, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> (presses play, and moves mouth to the audio...) I think Blackie is doing the Paul Stanley these days as well.


Blackie can do whatever he wants. He's earned it. I was hoping to catch him next time there's a WASP tour.


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## StevenC (Mar 24, 2022)

bostjan said:


> The main argument I hear anti-Labrie, is that his voice doesn't fit the sound of the band. Personally, I've generally enjoyed his voice, when it was on.


I always assumed these were the same people that preferred Systematic Chaos to Images and Words.


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