# Bad on stage monitoring.



## Manbear (May 24, 2012)

Hey guys.

My band has been together a bit over a year, and has just started booking and playing regular shows - we played our second last night. The first show was at a decent venue, we all had trouble hearing each other through the foldbacks, but it was enough we could play as tight as ever, we were spot on the whole show, it was just very different to practice.

Last night, we played at a club, and literally couldnt hear a thing, we'd go out of time, and id have to turn around and watch the drummer to know what the hell was going on. It was a terrible show, still so bummed about it. 

We are tight off stage, and we all know our parts without thinking about it. Playing not only unable to hear each other, but not even hear your own instrument, made it near impossible. 

Is this something to get used to with more shows under our belts, or is it likely just the crap club equipment? Should we consider IEM? Is there a way to practice at rehearsal to try and prepare us for shit on stage monitoring? Or something we can do onstage to improve what we hear, be it where we stand or keep asking the sound guy to change what levels hes giving us. After the first song I quickly asked the sound guy to increase the volume of my guitar in my foldback, but it made little difference. There were 5 bands, the first band and last band got sound checks. We were third, so had 5 seconds where the sound guy asked us to play individually to get levels right, then started.


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## clark81 (May 25, 2012)

Well, this could happen all the time. The best thing to do is practice without standing in a circle. You should do stage setup even when practicing and even if it looks funny, lower or raise the volume of some instruments before the end to get used to sh*&^% sound conditions


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## Manbear (May 25, 2012)

We always practice standing as we would live, but turning down one or two instruments to get used to shit conditions is a good idea, we'll try that.


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## petereanima (May 25, 2012)

You don't want to hear it, but: Get used to it. Having perfect stage sound is the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately.

Oh, and:



Manbear said:


> id have to turn around and watch the drummer to know what the hell was going on.... After the first song I quickly asked the sound guy to increase the volume of my guitar



If you already can't hear the drummer, don't turn the guitar still louder.

With time and practice it comes, that you don't need to hear yourself perfect anymore. Try to get to that point as soon as possible, so you can turn your volume down on stage and hear the drummer over it.

I for example, always only rely on the 4x12 backline cab as my "monitor" for the guitar sound. On the real monitors, I only want drums (snare & kick). And our drummer wants guitar only on his monitor, as loud as possible.


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## Crank (May 25, 2012)

from my perspective it's always great to have monitor in ear(s). Than, of course if all instruments go through lines or mics, you don't give a shit whether you play small or big venue. You always hear what you want and what you set before the show. As for hearing yourself on different stages...it's basically all about the venue and volume. Sometimes it's up to the sound tech. So if you want to be safe and sound, invest on ear monitors. Our drummer uses line out from the mixer and he gets FOH mix to is ears. Vocal does the same with ear monitor. I go to ear plug monitor as well. I'm just tired of bad experiences with unknown venues


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## WhiteWalls (May 25, 2012)

Having a perfect mix of every instrument is impossible, so you need to focus on what you NEED to hear. The best thing possible in my opinion, especially if you play metal, is to get used to hearing ONLY the drummer and a little bit of yourself, just enough so you realize if you made a mistake and you can correct it right away. I am usually annoyed if I get to hear too much of the vocals, bass or second guitar because I could be thrown off beat more easily by others' mistakes.


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## BrianUV777BK (May 25, 2012)

Get used to it. It doesn't really get any better.


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## GunpointMetal (May 25, 2012)

been gigging for 11 years and most shows have crappy sound. A lot of times even places with really nice gear don't hire someone who knows how to utilize it...like playing in a venue where the sound guy forgot to turn on the amps to the monitors, then couldn't figure out why we couldn't hear ourselves....best bet is to know your shit and set levels so if nothing else, you can hear the drummer. Another thing I like to do if the sound guys is being a bastard.....turn your amps way down so he has no choice but to run them loud through the monitors and if he still won't help you out, crank that shit till your louder than the FOH. If a shitty sound tech is gonna make you sound like ass anyways, at least have some fun with it...


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## cwhitey2 (May 25, 2012)

I have never had good monitoring live. Practice to only the drums, count on never hearing anything else and you should be fine


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## Tyler (May 25, 2012)

Ive been trying to find this out for some time now, but would using IEM damage your hearing? I havent tried a pair before and always use some ear plugs at practice. Ive debated on going to IEM but since I plan to major in production, its crucial that I keep my hearing as best as possible


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## GunpointMetal (May 25, 2012)

IEM is good, but a littl expensive. The nice thing is if you don't have to use your amps volume you can set the stage volume to almost nothing and keep your IEM pretty low. I've only had the opportunity to use a good set up once, and it was awesome. Bass and guitars direct, no amps on stage, and everything sounded awesome. Worth the investment if you can afford it.


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## robare99 (Jun 6, 2012)

How loud are you on stage? The drums should set the stage volume and then set your level around that. As a sound guy, I stand out in front, and get both guitars to play an "A" chord. Then I get them to turn up or down to balance out the mix between the two. I make sure they are loud enough to fill the area of the stage just in front. 

Then I give them whatever they need in their monitors. If you are too loud on stage it screws up the mix out front...

I can always make you louder, but I can't make you any quieter. I know a few bands were their mix sounds like ass because the guitars are too loud, and then they aren't put into the mains.

Try to work with the sound guy if you can. Sometimes they just don't have "enough rig for the gig" in that case you have to be able to soldier through, like others have said.


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## steve1 (Jun 6, 2012)

The drummer is key here. Generally the drums are the only thing I've ever heard clearly during a gig. If the drummer knows where he is in the song, doesn't require any cues from guitar parts to know what's coming next etc, in theory you'll all stay together. 

If you need to look at the drummer, try not to peer over your shoulder at him looking lost, turn round like you're rocking out with him, assuming things haven't totally ballsed up the odds are the audience hasn't noticed the mistake.

Also communicate telepathically  well not telepathically but through eye contact and body language and visual cues. The better you know each other the better you'll be able to "read" eachother


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## KingAenarion (Jun 10, 2012)

Get your own sound guy, make sure he knows what he's doing.

Pay him to make you sound good. Part of that is teaching you what he needs from you, things you can change to sound better. Part of that is knowing what you need in your foldbacks to play well. If you pay $15 for strings, 2 guitarists... you pay you pay for petrol to get yourself to the gig etc etc... you think about all of those expenses that you have. If you pay someone who's specific job is to make you sound good, is it not worth it?

I've been doing sound around Sydney for a couple of years now. I usually attend a few rehearsals to help the band get the best live sound. A big part of it is learning to mix yourself on stage as well. Remember that a PA is just a form of amplification. If you put a balanced mix through the PA, well then you'll get a balanced mix out really easily and the sound guy will find it hard to fuck it up.


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## Ckackley (Jun 10, 2012)

Stage sound always sucks. :-( We have our own sound tech , but the problem we run into is the clubs not wanted a stranger touching the house gear. WE usually HAVE to use the club sound tech. Boooo. We showed up at our last show to see ONE stage monitor that only worked part of the time. I actually kicked it halfway through our second song and it crackled to life. I personally NEED to hear drums and vocals. Everything else is secondary.


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## robare99 (Jun 11, 2012)

Ckackley said:


> Stage sound always sucks. :-( We have our own sound tech , but the problem we run into is the clubs not wanted a stranger touching the house gear. WE usually HAVE to use the club sound tech. Boooo. We showed up at our last show to see ONE stage monitor that only worked part of the time. I actually kicked it halfway through our second song and it crackled to life. I personally NEED to hear drums and vocals. Everything else is secondary.



No kidding hey. One band showed up and said "holy crap, this is the most monitors we've had the whole tour so far" and another band member added "all gigs COMBINED!"


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## McBonez (Jun 13, 2012)

Ckackley said:


> Stage sound always sucks. :-( We have our own sound tech , but the problem we run into is the clubs not wanted a stranger touching the house gear. WE usually HAVE to use the club sound tech. Boooo. We showed up at our last show to see ONE stage monitor that only worked part of the time. I actually kicked it halfway through our second song and it crackled to life. I personally NEED to hear drums and vocals. Everything else is secondary.



That's an issue we've run into on entire tours. Fortunately when you've played with the same guys for about 10 years you get a feel for it all anyway, but when I was younger it was always so easy to blame a shitty performance on the sound guy


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## KingAenarion (Jun 14, 2012)

Ckackley said:


> Stage sound always sucks. :-( We have our own sound tech , but the problem we run into is the clubs not wanted a stranger touching the house gear. WE usually HAVE to use the club sound tech. Boooo. We showed up at our last show to see ONE stage monitor that only worked part of the time. I actually kicked it halfway through our second song and it crackled to life. I personally NEED to hear drums and vocals. Everything else is secondary.



That may come out of a history of the "band sound guy" just being a friend who knows their music and a little bit about sound, so the band gets him along to feel better knowing they know who's behind the desk. I always inform the venues that I will be doing sound for XYZ band. If they say "we have an in house sound guy" I ask them what his qualifications are. I then list off mine, and usually by the time I get to "was asked to work on the last Coldplay tour" they let me do my job


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