# Scales covering the neck?



## SenorDingDong (Jan 31, 2011)

I've always seen scales that cover the entire neck of the guitar, but HOW? i know scales in root position, and after that i get lost... how does a scale cover the entire neck? I know its easy to just look up the full scale and use that, but i want to understand it. Thanks


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## SirMyghin (Jan 31, 2011)

One way to do it is to use your knowledge of where the root notes are. If you know the scale pattern (say major for simplicity) you can start it from any root note position, you don't always have to start it from the Low string and work up in the pattern. Knowing if you cross from G to B (maj 3rd not a 4th) you will need to bump that part of the pattern 1 fret up helps too. 

I do exercises like this on my bass with all the modal scales to sort of road map/get a feel for it. You don't have to work from roots obviously, just envision them. I find this useful on guitar as if you tune a variation of standard, the patterns don't change. Albeit it is easy enough to make your own patterns if you do tune differently.

The other approach is just to know exactly what notes are in a scale (Key of A major , F,C and G are sharp) and just place all those notes on the fretboard and run as you please.

I think the big hurdle here for you is that you look at a scale as a set sequence of notes. It is a set of notes, not a sequence. Essentially a scale tells you what notes below, and what you are seeing as a 'scale' up and down the entire neck, is really just all those notes (and not the other ones). A scale is not just running 1 octave root to root, or the 'movable major scale pattern' on the guitar. It is what notes belong IN that pattern. A good exercise might be taking a root note, and writing out every mode and the notes in it for comparison.


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 31, 2011)

thanks i think i understand what your saying... I've just finished theory part one, all the basic stuff, so my knowledge is just beginning to sprout.. But say its C Major, since theres no accidentals, to move it up the entire neck i would use the notes C D E F G A B C, and on every string, and thus it would take the scale up the neck? and that would be the entirety of the C Major scale?


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## SirMyghin (Jan 31, 2011)

Jstring said:


> thanks i think i understand what your saying... I've just finished theory part one, all the basic stuff, so my knowledge is just beginning to sprout.. But say its C Major, since theres no accidentals, to move it up the entire neck i would use the notes C D E F G A B C, and on every string, and thus it would take the scale up the neck? and that would be the entirety of the C Major scale?



Yes, mostly correct. The error is your use of 'accidentals'. An accidental is a note that falls outside the scale you are working on. So for C major, which is as you have listed C# D# F# G# and A# would all be accidentals. That doesn't mean you cannot used them though, but that comes with practice and intention.

A key like G major where F is sharp looks like this G A B C D E F# G, and an accidental is any note outside of the scale (in this case F is an accidental). 

Easy way to remember order of sharps - Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle (F C G D A E B) the key is named after 1 semitone above the last sharp. Flats are the opposite (B E A D G C F) and the key is named after the second last flat.


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 1, 2011)

Alright... i guess my big problem forever was, one being self taught with zero theory skills, and two i always just looked at the shapes of scales and thought that somehow that shape WAS the scale (i.e. it moved up and down neck in same position/shape) and i know that you can play accidentals in C major and its relative a minor, and throw in some chromatic, BUT my biggest issue is separating the arpeggio from the scale... Like i couldn't play a C major arpeggio from just the scale, i would need a chord


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 1, 2011)

Now that I'm in theory I'm starting to understand alot of these things, but i guess some old habits die hard XD


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 1, 2011)

It sounds like you have some basic and abstract knowledge and you need some application. It would be great if you could take some musicianship/ear training classes, but I'm assuming that you are either not in music classes, or you are not yet at the level at which to take musicianship classes. No matter.

Let's lay down some basic principles: first, when talking about scales, the "root" note that you are referring to is typically called the "tonic". In solfege syllables (Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti), the tonic is "Do". The purpose behind solfege is to create a physical link between music theory, reading music, and the voice/ear/mind. I've prepared an example of a C major scale married to solfege and with guitar tab, so you can follow along. Go ahead, play the music, and sing along with your guitar.







Now, you'll notice that I have included both the ascending scale as well as the descending scale. Within the complete scale, C to C, there are smaller scalar ideas. If you take the ascending Do Re Mi Fa, that's a chunk of the major scale. Its counterpart, Fa Mi Re Do, is another chunk. Sol La Ti Do and Do Ti La Sol are two other important chunks. I just chose those chunks, because the measures divide them up pretty readily. These scale chunks could easily be anywhere else in this formula, and can involve as many or as few notes as you want. There are tons of melodies that are constructed with little segments like this.

Three Blind Mice: Mi Re Do, Mi Re Do, Sol Fa Fa Mi, Sol Fa Fa Mi...

The main riff in this one is actually two similar melodies in harmony (although it may just be entirely harmonized on the third; my laptop speakers aren't the best for hearing detail).











And these things don't always have Do as their lowest pitch. Actually, this is a pretty common figure in scalar writing:



Do Sol La Ti, Do Sol La Ti, etc, and it transposes up chromatically a few times. That "Sol La Ti Do" figure is pretty important, in terms of harmony, but I won't get there just yet. What I want to point out is that a scale can start anywhere - it's just a collection of pitches. It can start anywhere and end anywhere, and that scale is that scale is that scale. This, for example, is a C major scale:






Can you read all those ledger lines? Do you know what the bottom note is? The top note? Can any instrument ever hope to play all those notes? None of that matters. How do we know it's C major? Well, there are no accidentals, the key signature tells us it's C major (or a relative key thereof), and because I said. Scales are a pretty small part of Western music theory (Well... sort of. We have about four of them up until the twentieth century, and three of them are just considered to be variations on the same concept.), so once you get some basic ideas down, you're good to go.

Obviously, though, there are other major scales than C major. We can use the solfege syllables on any pitch. Here they are in the key of G major:






Notice the F# in the key signature. I've also put it as a courtesy accidental in the ascending scale, just to remind you. Like SirMyghin mentioned, since F# is in the key, F# is "natural" to the key of G major.

And, guess what, there is solfege for scales other than the major scale. Here is C minor:






Do Re Me (pronounced "May") Fa Sol Le ("Lay") Te ("Tay") Do

There are actually a lot more solfege syllables, but I'll let you absorb all this first. In regards to your original question, there are a lot of notes on the fretboard, but the reality is that there are only twelve notes, and they exist in different octaves on the neck. You can memorize shapes, which is all fine and good, and you can also learn the intervals or notes in the scale. Personally, I just do it by ear most of the time. This solfege stuff I'm talking about, I hear it when I play. Once you learn to hear where the tonic is, playing within a scale, within a key, becomes unbearably easy.


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 1, 2011)

thank you, and right now i am starting to work on ear training, i know the whole do re mi fa sol la ti do thing, i just never put it so practical use to understand it more, like you showed... I just started theory a couple months ago so it's a work in progress... but thank you for sharing your insight, it is very helpful... I guess its hard crossing the piano to guitar gap... my theory class is taught with piano is the instrument, so its a bit confusing sometimes putting the knowledge to practical use on a guitar, that and i over think things, i'm good at theory (as far as the class goes lol) but when i get home to put it to use it becomes another world


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## Skanky (Feb 1, 2011)

Jstring said:


> I've always seen scales that cover the entire neck of the guitar, but HOW? i know scales in root position, and after that i get lost... how does a scale cover the entire neck? I know its easy to just look up the full scale and use that, but i want to understand it. Thanks





Showing by example:

Take the CMaj scale (C, D, E, F, G, A, B).

This shows EVERY possible note and location on the guitar for the CMaj scale.

Notice how the Tonic (C) is an orange-colored dot, different from the others. If you start with this note, and only play the displayed notes between tonics, you have just played the CMaj scale. 

Now, there are several ways to do this...

Ex 1.
|--------------------------
|--------------------0--1--
|--------------0--2--------
|-----0--2--3--------------
|--3-----------------------
|--------------------------

Ex 2.
|--------------------------
|-----------------------1--
|-----------------2--4-----
|--------2--3--5-----------
|--3--5--------------------
|--------------------------

Ex 3.
|--------------------------
|--------------------------
|--------------------4--5--
|-----------3--5--7--------
|--3--5--7-----------------
|--------------------------

Ex 4.
|----------------------------
|----------------------------
|----------------------------
|-------------------7--9-10--
|---------7--8-10------------
|--8-10----------------------



All of these are the EXACT same scale. No difference whatsoever.

Now go back to the original graphic - see how you can actually "make" each of the Examples shown here by simply "connecting" one tonic (orange dot, remember?) to the next?

Try clicking on the fret number (above the fretboard layout). It will change the way the scale is displayed depending on the fret number selected (remember, it's all still in CMajor at this point).


Play around with this website - it is a tremendous help with figuring out scales and positions and such. Try not to get overwhelmed though. Just stick with the Major scale starting out.


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 1, 2011)

yeah i've started getting a hang of it, but it also comes down to, i have to get technical and learn the notes on every fret and all that, i've always had a natural ability to just play about anything i want, and so i never really learned theory, but now that i want to understand everything, its gonna take time


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## Skanky (Feb 2, 2011)

Jstring said:


> yeah i've started getting a hang of it, but it also comes down to, i have to get technical and learn the notes on every fret and all that, i've always had a natural ability to just play about anything i want, and so i never really learned theory, but now that i want to understand everything, its gonna take time





I'm sure Schecter will chime in on this one, but I think learning the intervals for each scale would be vastly more important than knowing each note at each fret/string position. I'm sure everyone's different in this regard though.


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 2, 2011)

Skanky said:


> I'm sure Schecter will chime in on this one, but I think learning the intervals for each scale would be vastly more important than knowing each note at each fret/string position. I'm sure everyone's different in this regard though.



I know the intervals i.e. M2M2m2M2M2M2m2) now that i think about my question i feel kinda dumb 
i wasn't applying my knowledge from theory, i was literally looking at a shape like this

|-----------------134|
|--------------134---|
|-----------014------|
|--------013---------|
|------23------------|
|---134--------------|
|134-----------------|

and thinking the SHAPE was the scale, i wasn't thinking of steps or notes, haha... i feel really dumb now


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Feb 2, 2011)

Yep. Intervals.


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## Skanky (Feb 2, 2011)

The SHAPE has more to do with the mode... it's a specific SCALE when you play it on a certain position on your fretboard.

By your example:
|-----------------134|
|--------------134---|
|-----------014------|
|--------013---------|
|------23------------|
|---134--------------|
|134-----------------|

This is the one of the harmonic minor "shapes", starting at the first fret, 7th string - C is the note. Therefore, it's C Harmonic Minor scale.

Again, probably the best thing to do is start by learning ONLY the Major scale shapes. Try different shapes at different positions on the fretboard. Once you feel comfortable with this, work on the minor scales.

When I started out on the 7 string, I learned this specific shape (showing E-Major, 2 octaves):
|-------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------8--9--
|---------------------------------7--9--11--------
|--------------------6--7--9--11------------------
|-----------5--7--9-------------------------------
|--5--7--9----------------------------------------


What's nice about this specific positioning is that it has a repeating shape and works well in an ascending pattern (note the notes in yellow have the exact same "shape" (intervals) as the first set).

Of course, you could simply start at a lower/higher fret to get a different scale. Starting on the 7th string, 5th fret, is E-Major. Starting on the 3rd fret, holding the same SHAPE would be G-Major. 


Later, I learned this position/shape (again, E-Major, 2 octaves):
|-----------------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------4--5--
|-----------------------------------4--6--------
|--------------------------4--6--7--------------
|-----------------4--6--7-----------------------
|--------4--5--7--------------------------------
|--5--7-----------------------------------------

Unfortunately, this positioning doesn't have a repeating shape like the last example, but it's important to learn since it's a more "vertical" pattern (no sliding of your left hand position).


I guess the big thing to take from all this babbling is to start simple and learn the intervals / shapes. It will eventually come naturally and won't be something you think about consciously while you're playing.


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## Skanky (Feb 2, 2011)

If you like the Harmonic Minor scale, Here's a suggestion:

|-----------------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------4--5--
|--------------------------------3--5--6--------
|--------------------2--3--5--6-----------------
|-----------1--3--4-----------------------------
|--1--3--4--------------------------------------


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## SenorDingDong (Feb 2, 2011)

thank you guys all for your input, its very helpful and i've used it all and taken it all in, i used to never use scales (yeah i was THAT guy) but now that i'm starting to your insight is extremely helpful... thank you


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