# Thats "Shocking"



## quasarwaves (Feb 24, 2010)

Every been shocked repeatedly at a gig? Once I played a show at a place called the Metal Bar in Toronto, and between my guitar and the house mic (powered by 2 ungrounded circuits, so said my power conditioner), I was getting sizzled periodically on the lips for about an hour. By the end of it I had a damn blister on my lip.


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## Customisbetter (Feb 24, 2010)

never happened to me but i hear that it happens a lot.


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## Arminius (Feb 24, 2010)

I remember when I forgot to ground my electronics to my bridge. No fun.


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## Demeyes (Feb 25, 2010)

I've been shocked by few mics in a few different places. Just a small shock mind, but it's enough to really put you off.


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## James Blood (Feb 25, 2010)

I have been zapped lightly at one gig, but no blister, but I got blisters a few times without getting "sizzled" ;-)


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## newamerikangospel (Mar 8, 2010)

I have seen this happen when someone was feeding phatom power to a dyamic mic. My practice spot (aka drummer's house) doesn't have grounded plugs, and I have never had a problem with being "shocked"


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## Hybrid138 (Sep 13, 2011)

Sorry to bump an old topic but this microphone shocking happens to me at shows too. Is there any way to prevent it?


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## KingAenarion (Sep 14, 2011)

Hybrid138 said:


> Sorry to bump an old topic but this microphone shocking happens to me at shows too. Is there any way to prevent it?



Tell the sound guy to turn off phantom power if possible.

It's likely that this is where it's coming from


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## samincolour (Sep 14, 2011)

Our singer gets it all the time in shit venues. It's hilarious to see!


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## drgamble (Sep 14, 2011)

This does happen all the time and the only way to prevent it is to plug equipment into a GROUNDED circuit. Likely, the venue has very old wiring and there is a short somewhere. If the third prong is not grounded correctly you will get shocked. If you can not get a grounded circuit I would use one of those foam mic covers and you should be ok to do the gig. I would definitely let the club owner know and tell him to get it fixed. This could present a very dangerous situation if not taken care of. Phantom power will not energize a microphone. When phantom power is on it send 48v on one of the 3 prongs in the xlr cable. In a dynamic mic, this prong is there but is isolated inside of the mic. The culprit here is building wiring and could cause a fire if not taken care of.


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## KingAenarion (Sep 14, 2011)

drgamble said:


> This does happen all the time and the only way to prevent it is to plug equipment into a GROUNDED circuit. Likely, the venue has very old wiring and there is a short somewhere. If the third prong is not grounded correctly you will get shocked. If you can not get a grounded circuit I would use one of those foam mic covers and you should be ok to do the gig. I would definitely let the club owner know and tell him to get it fixed. This could present a very dangerous situation if not taken care of. Phantom power will not energize a microphone. When phantom power is on it send 48v on one of the 3 prongs in the xlr cable. In a dynamic mic, this prong is there but is isolated inside of the mic. The culprit here is building wiring and could cause a fire if not taken care of.



In my experience, this doesn't just happen in ungrounded equipment. I've been shocked lightly plenty of times by microphones which were plugged into grounded and power conditioned mixers. It can also have to do with the quality of the MICROPHONE cable, or the microphone itself.

I've only ever experienced it when the phantom power is turned on.


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## ZEBOV (Sep 14, 2011)

I've had this happen at Guitar Center. It wasn't just mics. Everything I touched was shocking me, and it fucking hurt too.


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## drgamble (Sep 14, 2011)

KingAenarion said:


> In my experience, this doesn't just happen in ungrounded equipment. I've been shocked lightly plenty of times by microphones which were plugged into grounded and power conditioned mixers. It can also have to do with the quality of the MICROPHONE cable, or the microphone itself.
> 
> I've only ever experienced it when the phantom power is turned on.



You would never know if the circuit is grounded unless you actually performed a continuity test from the 3rd prong to the ground rod outside. Usually it is not the mic that is energized, but rather it is the ground. Your guitar is what is energized. Now if you cut the ground lug off of your power cords or use those 3 prong to 2 prong adapters without grounding the 3rd prong the same thing will happen. Keep in mind that this shock isn't usually a full 120v, but could be if shorts in the wiring are bad enough. In this scenario, if the circuits were properly grounded, it would trip the circuit breaker/blow the main fuses. This is why standards call for 3 prong outlets and plugs on any high powered equipment. You may of heard of tools being double insulated and it basically means it has a 3rd prong. If you were to use a GFI in the chain it would stay tripped until you have a good ground with no shorts.


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## KingAenarion (Sep 15, 2011)

drgamble said:


> You would never know if the circuit is grounded unless you actually performed a continuity test from the 3rd prong to the ground rod outside. Usually it is not the mic that is energized, but rather it is the ground. Your guitar is what is energized. Now if you cut the ground lug off of your power cords or use those 3 prong to 2 prong adapters without grounding the 3rd prong the same thing will happen. Keep in mind that this shock isn't usually a full 120v, but could be if shorts in the wiring are bad enough. In this scenario, if the circuits were properly grounded, it would trip the circuit breaker/blow the main fuses. This is why standards call for 3 prong outlets and plugs on any high powered equipment. You may of heard of tools being double insulated and it basically means it has a 3rd prong. If you were to use a GFI in the chain it would stay tripped until you have a good ground with no shorts.



240v....
In Australia we use 240V 10 Amp... like the rest of the world

a building's entire electrical grid is always grounded, and without it one cannot carry a club licence.

You also have to have any power cable used in a club tested once I think it is every 6 months.

Having done lots and lots of live sound gigs, from small clubs, to doing casual work for a company during Coldplay's last tour, and having owned a few PA setups, some grounded and some not... to me, the common factor that casuses a vocalist to be shocked is phantom power. The moment I have turned OFF the phantom power, the shocking has stopped.

I don't CARE if it's actually a grounding issue, I care about the fact that in every case that I have been working with professional live sound engineers that when someone gets shocked, the first thing they do is turn off the phantom power. If it persists then I imagine the hunt for an ungrounded circuit will commense, but so far, in no cases has it persisted. Whether that has something to do with a type of microphone used, the type of cable/multicore used or whatever I do not know. What I know is that in every case, phantom power has been the common factor.


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## AxeHappy (Sep 15, 2011)

Yeah...phantom power has nothing to due with getting shocked...

There's really just no way it's possible. About the only thing phantom power can harm is some (super-over-the-top-sensitive) ribbon mics. 

I used tons of phantom power when I was in school training to be an audio engineer (and what a waste of time and money that was! HA!) and I use it when recording at home with my crappy Mbox 2 setup and I use it when my band Jams both at home (without drummer) and at the jamspace we rent. 

If phantom power caused people to be shocked I would quite likely be dead. 

Of course, it's entirely possible the phantom power combined with some other issue could be a problem.


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## highlordmugfug (Sep 15, 2011)

Keith Relf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## GuitaristOfHell (Sep 15, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> Keith Relf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



 So how do we know if it's properly grounded now?


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## drgamble (Sep 15, 2011)

KingAenarion said:


> 240v....
> In Australia we use 240V 10 Amp... like the rest of the world
> 
> a building's entire electrical grid is always grounded, and without it one cannot carry a club licence.
> ...



Here in the United States nightclubs are not required to get any electrical permits besides the construction permits. I cannot only speak from the 20 or so years of experience playing in nightclubs in the US, but for my day job I am a Lineman/Relay Technician for a major US electric utility, so I think I am somewhat qualified to answer this question. New US building codes do call for grounded circuits in all new construction. The problem is that many of the nightclubs that most of us play here in the states especially here in New Orleans, some of the wiring may be 60 or 70 years old with nothing but the original electrical permit. They do not come back and do follow up checks for this. If they have a problem and call the utility company and we find faulty wiring issues or even a fire, we disconnect electric service and require that they have it repaired by a qualified electrician and a new permit, where they must bring their system up to code. The truth is if the electrician knows the county inspector, the inspector may not even show up. I have worked with DC voltages up to 120V DC. 24-48V DC will likely not even shock you. The normal electrical circuit in the US is 120V AC at 20A. I think that you are confusing someone toggling the phantom power on and off with someone flipping a switch that says ground lift. This will unground the mic and since it is no longer grounded will not shock you.


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## Deadnightshade (Sep 15, 2011)

Guys don't complain about getting shocked..It gives you a great pickup line if you like a girl from the audience

EDIT:"pickup"


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## ZEBOV (Sep 16, 2011)

Deadnightshade said:


> Guys don't complain about getting shocked..It gives you a great pickup line if you like a girl from the audience
> 
> EDIT:"pickup"



There are pickup lines? I thought there were just bass lines.


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## TRENCHLORD (Sep 16, 2011)

9v battery to the tongue you can barely feel.
But if you take the 18v emg mod mini wire harness, and connect up your 2 batteries you can get a little zappiness by sticking the third clip on tongue.


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## KingAenarion (Sep 18, 2011)

drgamble said:


> Here in the United States nightclubs are not required to get any electrical permits besides the construction permits. I cannot only speak from the 20 or so years of experience playing in nightclubs in the US, but for my day job I am a Lineman/Relay Technician for a major US electric utility, so I think I am somewhat qualified to answer this question. New US building codes do call for grounded circuits in all new construction. The problem is that many of the nightclubs that most of us play here in the states especially here in New Orleans, some of the wiring may be 60 or 70 years old with nothing but the original electrical permit. They do not come back and do follow up checks for this. If they have a problem and call the utility company and we find faulty wiring issues or even a fire, we disconnect electric service and require that they have it repaired by a qualified electrician and a new permit, where they must bring their system up to code. The truth is if the electrician knows the county inspector, the inspector may not even show up. I have worked with DC voltages up to 120V DC. 24-48V DC will likely not even shock you. The normal electrical circuit in the US is 120V AC at 20A. I think that you are confusing someone toggling the phantom power on and off with someone flipping a switch that says ground lift. This will unground the mic and since it is no longer grounded will not shock you.



What I'M saying is that the common factor in any shock from a microphone has always been phantom power. Whether that's because the circuit is ungrounded I don't know or honestly care. EVERY time It's happened, removing the phantom power has stopped it.

I would generally guess it's due to the nature of phantom power and the way in which it pushes voltage back down the microphone.

Also as an electrician, to say that voltage wouldn't shock you seems odd. I'm not an electrician, but isn't voltage without amps the same as a pipe without water. Should it actually matter what the voltage is, because if there's enough ampage behind a low voltage it could just as easily shock you.


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## drgamble (Sep 18, 2011)

You kind of sound like a club owner who doesn't want to spend the money to get your stuff right. I would say phantom voltage would be in about 1% of all cases. I have been in clubs with my own equipment and only get shocked at certain clubs. 99% of the time it is faulty wiring. Most club owners in this situation would really like for you to believe you are shocked from phantom voltage because electrical work cost $$$. In a dynamic mic the phantom power pin is just dead ended in the xlr output. If phantom power were the issue you would get shocked anywhere. I can speak from experience that it's usually a small divebar that does not keep up with maintenance. All I'm saying is that if you use properly grounded electric circuits to plug all of your equipment into, you will not get shocked. If what you are saying is true, groups like ANSI and UL here in the states would make manufacturer take step to eliminate the hazard. They have not identified these as problems and instead there are electrical codes that deal with this.


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## newamerikangospel (Sep 18, 2011)

I will only say this


100% of the issues I have ever had involving shocking on a dynamic mic, literally came from phantom power being turned on at the mixer. When turned off, it stops.


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## KingAenarion (Sep 18, 2011)

newamerikangospel said:


> I will only say this
> 
> 
> 100% of the issues I have ever had involving shocking on a dynamic mic, literally came from phantom power being turned on at the mixer. When turned off, it stops.



THANKYOU... I am obviously not the only one.


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## wlfers (Sep 18, 2011)

neg rep for title pun.












lol jk


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