# Best healthy way to "bulk up"



## chaosxcomplex (Sep 30, 2010)

So I've been working out lately, mostly doing some weight training, and a little cardio. I'm just getting started, so I've been starting out slowly, getting my muscles used to everything again. I really wanna get a little bigger, not huge, but just have some muscle mass, mainly in my arms and chest. I'm not concerned with the actual excersies as much as I am with the diet part. I've wanted to start eating healthy for a while, and I figure since I'm starting to do some working out and such, why not start now?

I know that I need to eliminate a lot of the junk I eat, such as soda, fast food, probably coffee (damnit), replace a lot of the red meat with stuff like chicken and fish, eat more vegetables (which I hardly eat any)...

I need specific advice on adding some mass to my arms. I need to lose some belly fat as well, I have some love handles forming...not good...haha...I know that situps/crunches are good, but I've also read that it's about total body fat, and situps/crunches arent gonna just make the belly fat go away. Any advice you guys can give me would be awesome, and I plan on using this thread as a progress tracker, hoping to get some support and advice along the way.

Thanks guys.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Sep 30, 2010)

well first of all yes adjust your diet, make every meal count.

1.buy a protein supplement:this is the standard in muscle building and will save you from having to eat a meal for more protein which will contain more calories and unwanted simple carbs etc.You don't have to do this but I would recommend it,its an easy way to get protein a very important factor in building muscle.

2.yes crunches and so forth are rendered useless if you have a couple of inches of fat covering your abdominal muscles, you heard right its all about total body fat %.

I would suggest doing cardio after every workout(except the day you do legs and the day after),unlike some people think doing cardio before a workout will decrease testosterone and waste energy for your upcoming workout.Doing it after your workout is better as testosterone is higher during that period and testosterone is one of the most important factors of muscle building why do you guys who take steroids are so big.And try alternating when on a treadmill from jogging to running to walking which comes from a type of cardio training called HIIT, look it up and read more on it to find more info on it.

As you said you want to build up your arms and chest, don't forget to do your shoulders,traps and back and this will fill out your physique more and make you look "big" like you want.Work on all your bodyparts and you build a a great physique with a enough focus and dedication.

Make sure you eat right as well,lots of vegetables,chicken,fish,beans,rice and eggs are great which all include the building blocks of nutrients and make sure you be careful with the amount of calories you intake.

Hope this helps a bit, you will probably get a load of good information from other members as well as they know loads of shit on this subject,and remember the term "no pain no gain" term is very true, make sure you really push yourself and train smart, you don't want the wrong type of pain though so use proper form.

Hope it helps a bit


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## Uncle Remus (Sep 30, 2010)

Carbs early in the day. Protien later in the day. HIIT. No cardio. For hypertrophy (size) the standard 12 reps with 3 sets is a good start.

Try Creatine. Works wonders for some. But it depends on the individual


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## Triple-J (Sep 30, 2010)

Dialling in a diet can be hard but if you follow this it may be able to give you a rough clue of what to be eating and how much Tools and Downloads

When it comes to diet I think it's best to have a foundation of solid meals first then add a protein supplement to that plan for example I eat 5 or 6 meals a day, two meals are turkey/chicken with broccoli the 1st is porridge then the rest are protein shakes on their own or blended with some fruit and along the way I'll down a shot of extra virgin olive oil as it's a good source of healthy fats and calories.

I stick to this through the week then at the weekend I'll go for something different like a steak with some pasta or if I've been pushing myself hard and want to treat myself a pizza (apart from ice cream pizza is my only vice!) 

As for training I'll second wingchunwarriors advice that it's best to work on your whole body as I see plenty of guys in my gym who at first glance have decent arms and shoulders but also look totally laughable because they don't workout their lower body and have legs like anorexic pigeons.
I'm not sure how much time you have to work out but try and fit 1 or 2 body parts each session and feel free to experiment with your plan for example I began working out by doing two routines (chest/shoulders/triceps or back/biceps/legs) on a four day split of 
Monday-heavy
Tuesday-light
Wednesday-day off
Thursday-light
Friday-heavy 
but after a while I stopped getting results from this so now I work just three heavy days of chest/shoulders-Monday, biceps/triceps-Tuesday, back/legs Friday with a cardio session afterwards which gives me a day off after each session to recuperate as I'm going heavy as possible each day then if I feel like it I'll throw in a pure cardio session at the weekends.


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## blr5109 (Sep 30, 2010)

Look like theres some good advice on this thread already. The 5 or 6 meals per day tidbit is a very good piece of advice. Lots of lean meats, vegetables and whole grains. Protein shakes are nice as well if your willing to pay a little extra. You don't need the big fancy brand name protein shakes. Just a waste of money in my opinion. Just pick something up relatively inexpensive. I wouldn't waste money on other more expensive supplements like creatine, although it seems to be more inexpensive than it used to be. Creatine never gave me better results. A lot of people like to think the supplements are like something that will instantly increase your strength, stamina, physique etc. In all reality, its about how you work out. You seem to have a pretty good grip on what you want to accomplish. Just eat right and work hard in the gym. If you stick to it you'll get the results you want.


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## chaosxcomplex (Sep 30, 2010)

I've read some bad things about creatine and your heart. I'd rather just kinda do it the natural way. Eat right, up my protein intake, proper exercise. One thing I've thought of for an awesome snack, take a bunch of fruit, and toss in a few veggies, blend them up and have a nice tasty shake, with lots of good shit in it...


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## Harry (Sep 30, 2010)

You haven't mentioned your height and current weight.
Also information about your wrist size and calve size (small, medium, large) would be useful in determining your bone structure/size


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## Harry (Sep 30, 2010)

chaosxcomplex said:


> I've read some bad things about creatine and your heart. I'd rather just kinda do it the natural way



Creatine is safe. Anything you've read on it being "bad for the heart" is a wives tale, a total myth at best, seriously.
It is nothing like anabolic-androgenic-steroids, it is not a drug and is entirely safe to use.
Your body naturally produces creatine, and all creatine supplements do is to simply add to your current creatine stores, nothing more.
It's pretty much the same as how using vitamin supplements just add to your current vitamin levels.
If you have pre-existing kidney problems, creatine may not be safe.
But for everyone else with perfectly fine kidneys, it's harmless.
It's been around for 20 years now, and all the reports of deaths caused by it are total rumors.
Creatine can only improve your performance and assist in building muscle mass


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## chaosxcomplex (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm 6'1'', about 180lbs. I'm about a 34-36'' waist size, depending on the brand of pants. I don't know the actual measurement...I have big hip bones hahah. I have pretty skinny wrists, I can measure them tomorrow. Medium calves.


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## Harry (Sep 30, 2010)

chaosxcomplex said:


> I'm 6'1'', about 180lbs. I'm about a 34-36'' waist size, depending on the brand of pants. I don't know the actual measurement...I have big hip bones hahah. I have pretty skinny wrists, I can measure them tomorrow. Medium calves.



Weight wise, you're only a little smaller than me.
I'm about 6' and 187-188 pounds and I'm pretty much one of those "skinny fat" guys haha.
You sound like a "skinny fat" too, so gonna guess your genetic capacity for muscle gain isn't that amazing either.
That's where supplements come in really. They change the realm of possibilities for pretty much anyone.

There's lot of snake oil out there, and pretty much as far as supplementation goes, creatine, a good intra (during) workout drink, and whey protein (casein is good too) are really all you need.
Wouldn't worry about Amino-acid supplements (like BCAA and Glutamine etc etc) on a bulk because all that stuff can be found in complete protein sources like whey, casein (milk is composed of both) and eggs.
So if anything at a store tries to convince you that you need amino-acid supplements, they're scamming you.
If your diet is good enough, you wont really need vitamin supplements either (many protein powders have vitamins and dietary minerals in them too).

Also don't get so beat up over eating some "guilty pleasure" food now and then.
Yes, you gotta be strict on yourself, but you don't have to turn into a robot either.
As long as you make your macros per day, you'll be fine, as long as the rest of the meals in the day you ate had some decent vitamin, dietary mineral etc content.


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## chaosxcomplex (Sep 30, 2010)

Skinny-fat...I'm a walking contradiction!!! Starburst commercials, here I come!!!

That's indeed a very good phrase though...and one that motivates me even more to get this shit going!


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## Harry (Sep 30, 2010)

chaosxcomplex said:


> Skinny-fat...I'm a walking contradiction!!! Starburst commercials, here I come!!!
> 
> That's indeed a very good phrase though...and one that motivates me even more to get this shit going!




I know a true ectomorphs/skinny guys, that can eat more than I'm currently eating for my weight training regime, is far skinnier and weighs like 50lb less than me. Dude pretty much eats fast food almost every day, and just eats ton of shit generally, and just wont get fat.
So glad my metabolism isn't THAT fast
Turns out I'm not a true ectomorph, more of an ecto/endo with a little bit of meso qualities in that I have the small bone size of an ecto, have a sligthly slower metabolism than that of a true ecto (which I found out in 2007 when I stopped exercising completely for a while and ate tons of junk food), and don't have as much trouble gaining muscle as a true ecto, but still nowhere near a "genetically gifted" type for muscle gain ability.

But nonetheless, it doesn't deter me, because plenty of guys with similar genetic capacity to me have made impressive progress with hard work, so I know I can achieve the same.


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## chaosxcomplex (Sep 30, 2010)

When I do work out, I seem to see results fairly quickly. I see muscles becoming much more defined and a lot harder in just a week or so of medium working out...it's the fat thing that's the hard part for me. I think it's got a lot to do with my eating, which is soon to change.


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## Harry (Oct 1, 2010)

chaosxcomplex said:


> When I do work out, I seem to see results fairly quickly. I see muscles becoming much more defined and a lot harder in just a week or so of medium working out...it's the fat thing that's the hard part for me. I think it's got a lot to do with my eating, which is soon to change.



When you're only in your teens/20s, you still have plenty of testosterone to see the results fairly quickly in the beginnings of your weight regime even if your genetics are not the best.
I'm only 21, and I've been lifting for only a few months and already I've had my female friends who have seen me shirtless before I lifted tell me that my overall body is just bigger and more defined than it used to be.

It's when you get older that the gains taper off a little.
Also when you get much stronger (like I mean, benching like 200-250+ pounds, deadlifting 250+ pounds, squatting 250+ pounds, which) your gains start to slow down and you'll hit plateaus more often most likely.
From your statistics, you have more body fat than me and likely less muscle too, so you've got a little while to go before you hit the point where your gains start to slow down.


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## Sang-Drax (Oct 1, 2010)

I kinda like the program displayed in this site. Got this link from Tiger a while ago - and it's free!

So far, it has been working for me like nothing ever did before. A lot less boring than endless biceps curls, too.


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## jaco815 (Oct 1, 2010)

I ate a lot of beans one time and that really helped.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Oct 1, 2010)

Sang-Drax said:


> I kinda like the program displayed in this site. Got this link from Tiger a while ago - and it's free!
> 
> So far, it has been working for me like nothing ever did before. A lot less boring than endless biceps curls, too.



"Proof That SL5x5 Works. Reg Park, mentor of Arnold Schwarzenegger, used the 5×5 method during the 1950s to become 3x Mr Universe. By also becoming the first bodybuilder to Bench Press 500lbs, Reg Park inspired Schwarzenegger to follow his 5×5 training method to become 7x Mr Olympia"

Now it may be that it was some sort of secret of his but, I have never heard that arnie used that workout plan at all.I have his encyclopaedia, I read Flex monthly and I have never heard that arnold used this type of workout.Now Reg Park may have used it as I don't know a lot about him but unless I have completely missed something I question that statement about Arnold using it.

Not that I'm saying its not good, if it works for people,it works for people thats all there is to it.Hell I'm even looking into it!


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## Sang-Drax (Oct 1, 2010)

Wingchunwarrior said:


> "Proof That SL5x5 Works. Reg Park, mentor of Arnold Schwarzenegger, used the 5×5 method during the 1950s to become 3x Mr Universe. By also becoming the first bodybuilder to Bench Press 500lbs, Reg Park inspired Schwarzenegger to follow his 5×5 training method to become 7x Mr Olympia"
> 
> Now it may be that it was some sort of secret of his but, I have never heard that arnie used that workout plan at all.I have his encyclopaedia, I read Flex monthly and I have never heard that arnold used this type of workout.Now Reg Park may have used it as I don't know a lot about him but unless I have completely missed something I question that statement about Arnold using it.
> 
> Not that I'm saying its not good, if it works for people,it works for people thats all there is to it.Hell I'm even looking into it!



Yeah, I don't care for all the professional lifting stuff they advertise either. It's no rocket science; they basically took what Rippletoe has written in that ancient Starting Strength book, tweaked a little, and display all the info in an organized way in the site.


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## Harry (Oct 1, 2010)

I never started on any of those written programs to be honest.
I just kinda researched what lifts were around, and over time, developed my own program, adding or cutting out exercises as needed.
For most exercises I go for 7-12 reps.
For me personally, as far as the big two go (deadlifts and squats), 7-9 reps seems to work the best for building mass, but I'll generally never use less than 4 reps. Some people enjoy maxing out on one rep, but that doesn't interest me personally.
I'll use less sometimes when I need to just develop strength for heavier weights, and from there I'll increase the reps on that weight to enter the hypertrophy range.
Calf Raises is one exercise I do vary reps a lot though. Sometimes I do as much as 30 reps. Just depends how I feel.


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## Harry (Oct 1, 2010)

Wingchunwarrior said:


> "Proof That SL5x5 Works. Reg Park, mentor of Arnold Schwarzenegger, used the 5×5 method during the 1950s to become 3x Mr Universe. By also becoming the first bodybuilder to Bench Press 500lbs, Reg Park inspired Schwarzenegger to follow his 5×5 training method to become 7x Mr Olympia"
> 
> Now it may be that it was some sort of secret of his but, I have never heard that arnie used that workout plan at all.I have his encyclopaedia, I read Flex monthly and I have never heard that arnold used this type of workout.Now Reg Park may have used it as I don't know a lot about him but unless I have completely missed something I question that statement about Arnold using it.
> 
> Not that I'm saying its not good, if it works for people,it works for people thats all there is to it.Hell I'm even looking into it!



It's possible Arnold use 5x5 for strength, but most research indicates that hypertrophy occurs in the 8x12 rep range (but it varies from person to person, some people can get hypertrophy at 6, some at 15).
At some stage Arnold would have been doing higher than 5 reps to have induced hypertrophy


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## Wingchunwarrior (Oct 14, 2010)

> It's possible Arnold use 5x5 for strength, but most research indicates that hypertrophy occurs in the 8x12 rep range (but it varies from person to person, some people can get hypertrophy at 6, some at 15).
> At some stage Arnold would have been doing higher than 5 reps to have induced hypertrophy



Yeah I mean liked I said he could of done,I don't know.For instance Sergio Oliva apparently used that system which I just recently found out.

I agree with the 8-12 but although that's what I aim for but I become guilty of packing more weight on and do less reps sometimes just trying to lift more.Especially doing dead lifts and squats, I'll sometimes only do a 1-3 reps on my last set.But I've recently starting pyramid setting on the first three sets and then on the last set lowering the weight and really stimulating the muscles.

Sorry for getting off topic, but hopefully the op can use some of this information whether it be 8-12 or the 5x5 system.Its actually been a while since this thread was started hopefully you're getting into weights and stuff


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## Harry (Oct 20, 2010)

^
Would love to hear an update.
Lately I've started to use less reps (although it's also been varied a bit of course) and just developing more strength.
Just been reading a lot more on how it's good to build a solid foundation of strength, and then really go for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy a bit later.
Probably doesn't sound so impressive, but going to try pull off an 80Kg/176 pound deadlift tomorrow, which I suppose is pretty decent since I've only been working out for 4 months and started at 15kgs/33 pounds (yes, I seriously was quite piss weak when I started).
My legs have definitely thickened up quite nicely from squats, lying leg curls and deadlifts.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Oct 20, 2010)

Harry said:


> ^
> Would love to hear an update.
> Lately I've started to use less reps (although it's also been varied a bit of course) and just developing more strength.
> Just been reading a lot more on how it's good to build a solid foundation of strength, and then really go for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy a bit later.
> ...



Fuck me man that is an improvement! On deadlifts I started out on 40kg and now i recently got to 110kg in like 7 months.I can't get enough of deadlifts its one of my favourite exercises.

Also trying to keep on a diet for the first time in my life, man its hard and it isn't even that restricted.I try to stay on this:

Breakfast:3-4 eggs with two slices of bread
Around 12:either two chicken thighs or some pumpkin seeds
like 2ish:weight gainer shake(prolab nlarge)
5ish:white or brown rice with a can of tuna
Dinner:not up to me,what ever my mum cooks normally pretty healthy
9ish:weight gainer shake

That's what I try and keep to but i don't think its a good time to have my weight gainer shake too close to bedtime,so would you recommend getting some casein protein before i go to bed and have my second weight gainer earlier on in the day?Or any other relatively cheap foods I could add containing protein,complex carbs or good fats(not before bed but at anytime)


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## MacTown09 (Oct 21, 2010)

Cutting fat: Running is a great way to burn fat. As it's already been said, intervals are gonna burn the most fat quickly. Sprint/jog or sprint/walk alternations are REALLY gonna trim that stuff down.

Jump roping however is the best fat burner there is. 10 minutes of that after a work out (high intensity) will really help with quickness, coordination, and burn lots of fat. Just dont give up if you suck at first.

Bigger Arms: Its a common misconception that if you want bigger arms then you need to lift heavier weights. Doing high volumes of lower weight will REALLY make your arms get stronger and bigger faster. Do this:
15x 10 reps of straight bar curls
alternating with
15x 10 reps of skullcrushers
No rest
This is a great work out to help build those arms, cut fat, and improve strength. Naturally its good to mix a little low rep heavy weight sessions in there on arm days.


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## Harry (Oct 24, 2010)

Wingchunwarrior said:


> Fuck me man that is an improvement! On deadlifts I started out on 40kg and now i recently got to 110kg in like 7 months.I can't get enough of deadlifts its one of my favourite exercises.
> 
> Also trying to keep on a diet for the first time in my life, man its hard and it isn't even that restricted.I try to stay on this:
> 
> ...



I ended up saying "Fuck it, got for 85Kg!" today (decided to push my back day forward a few days, for a kind of deload effect), instead of 80Kg as my max as planned and managed 3 reps of it. My guess is that I could probably max out 1 rep of 95Kg.
I reckon by 7 months of working out, repping 110Kg perhaps 5-6 will definitely be achievable, perhaps even more, but I'll definitely be happy with 110Kg at that point.
I seem to progress really fast on squats and deadlifts, but my flat bench press progress is painfully slow in comparison 

I used to be on the weigh gainer shakes too. I took Isomass Extreme, by Ultimate Nutrition. Has the works in it : creatine AAKG, NO, dietary fiber, and a fair amount of dietary minerals in it.
It definitely worked, if perhaps a little too well, as it caused a bit of fat gain as I underestimated just how much extra calories it would really bring to the table.
After two tubs (4.59Kg tubs, only size they come in), decided to not use it anymore.
Partly due to the taste. It wasn't terrible, but it didn't mix completely, even when blended, and had this weird kind of metallic, blandness to the taste, which sometimes didn't bother me, but other times it was a bit hard to get it down.
Now to get extra calories, I just drink a lot more milk (whole milk). Proper food sources should be the way as far as getting the calories anyway.

My preference now is to have a separate creatine product, using Green Magnitude by Controlled Lab and an intra workout,currently IntrAbolic by Athletic Edge Nutrition. Then a separate protein for post workout (and I sue a tiny bit to add flavor to milk, but not as much as I do post workout though). Whole milk is just so awesome. I drink two liters a day usually, and it gives me 64 grams of protein and 66 grams of fat. So basically it gets 80 per cent of my daily fat needs out of the way, and about 1/3 of my protein needs down easily, and being milk, you know it's that good 80 per cent Casein and 20 per cent Whey blend, so it's just a damn good protein source.
Everything tastes so much better that way than trying to force down a weight gainer and I can also concentrate on getting calories from more whole food sources, rather than throwing down all this maltodextrin in amounts we don't really need.


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## SirMyghin (Nov 15, 2010)

I say just supplement a bit of protien and don't eat junk, pump some weights and you will be fine.

I don't bother with creatine as it makes you retain more water, and appear bigger, which can be a downer when you stop for some. I don't need a crutch either. I typically train for raw strength, not size so my reps are lower. I am not extremely lean but weigh a very health 85ish kilos. My deadlift isn't what it used to be anymore, due to a lack of deadlifting of late (too busy with my Master's). I am not super hardcore, nor do I understand the purpose of training for size (buying pants is already hard enough from too much squatting thanks).


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## Krankguitarist (Nov 18, 2010)

Try to balance your exercises out. Don't play to your strengths, or only "beach" muscles. This will lead to strength imbalances, and could possibly lead to injury

What I've personally found as a great help has been the articles on bodybuilding.com. At the very least, it's a great resource for learning how to do exercises with proper form. This is key: if you're not doing your exercises with proper form, you're not getting the maximum benefit from them. 

The 5X5 is a great program for building strength. The drawback with that sort of program, though, is that it's very easy to overtrain if you're not watching your diet, sleeping well...or simply aren't blessed with a body that can recover quickly from an intense workout. I'll personally go 5X5 on the first ten sets of my routine, then switch to a 3 sets of 8-12 reps for the rest of it, focusing mostly on compound exercises.

I'm afraid there's no magic bullet for bulking up, though. Everybody responds to different stimuli a little differently. Experiment a little, learn to listen to your body.

I noticed you mentioned sit ups and crunches. While these are a good addition to an exercise routine, they should be kept to a minimum. 5-10 minutes is sufficient. 

As for adding mass to your arms, remember that the triceps are actually have more potential for growth the the biceps. In order to get big arms, both need to be trained. 

Something I've just discovered recently: it's a good idea to not wear running shoes while lifting. Running shoes are great for...well...running. They absorb impact, and make the whole running experience a whole lot nicer on your feet, knees, hips, the whole shebang. But when you're trying to deadlift or squat some seriously heavy weights, the extra padding absorbs some of that force and fucks with your balance. I've started using Chuck Taylor low-tops at the gym recently and it's made a world of difference. Just make sure you switch back for your cardio.

Anywho, good luck on your journey. Even if you stumble along the way, remember that the self is a process. Shit will happen, you will miss work outs. Stick with it, though, and you'll reap the benefits.


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## SirMyghin (Nov 19, 2010)

Krankguitarist said:


> Something I've just discovered recently: it's a good idea to not wear running shoes while lifting. Running shoes are great for...well...running. They absorb impact, and make the whole running experience a whole lot nicer on your feet, knees, hips, the whole shebang. But when you're trying to deadlift or squat some seriously heavy weights, the extra padding absorbs some of that force and fucks with your balance. I've started using Chuck Taylor low-tops at the gym recently and it's made a world of difference. Just make sure you switch back for your cardio.



When it is not too cold out I wear vibram 5 fingers, I especially like them in the gym. Real shoes are quite cumbersome whne you get used to these though, and your walking mechanic will need to change to ball heel (instead of slamming heels around as shoes allow). But dude, they are great. The important factor here is the solidness of the heel of the runner though (as that is where all the weight should be resting). None of that nike air/half hollow heel nonsense for lifting.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 19, 2010)

Dont be a bitch, bulk to 220 then cut to 190 using winstrol. Problem solved.


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