# Kemper or Real Amp?



## ExplicitOfTimeBand (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey guys 

I'm really bursting my head thinking about whether I gonna buy a Kemper Profiling Amp (or maybe just POD HD Pro) or a real tube/hybrid amp, which I thought would be the Randall RH150 G3 Plus Head and a suitable 2x12 Cab. I'm weighing the pros and cons but can't make a decision... I'm into metal/djent btw 

Here's my list:

_Kemper:_

*+* Amazing sounds and possibilities, easy and relax recording in my room at home at low volume, great flexibility, good possibilities to record the upcoming album

*-* Not that great for live shows in my opinion (also doesn't look as cool as a tube head... ), can't jam and practise with my band (I've got a Peavey Vypyr 100 but gets shit at high volume), high price

_Randall RH 150 G3Plus_

*+* Great Metal sound, good quality for low price, I can practise with my band and don't have to be ashamed at shows with that beast

*-* no relax recording because micing (Zoom H2/SM57) -->different sounds when mic moves a tiny bit, bad to record a whole album. less flexibility, heavy, very loud at bedroom volume

I can't make up my mind because I don't know what's best for me and the band. (Soulhenge btw)

I'm curious what you guys will say, thanks!  
Keep rockin'


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## Hyacinth (Dec 10, 2012)

I'd go with the Kemper for sure. There's no reason to be ashamed of playing a show with a kemper. If people knew what it was they'd be envious, I'm sure. The Kemper comes out on top in any situation I can think of.


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## Larrikin666 (Dec 10, 2012)

Why can't you use the Kemper for practice? You can get a powered monitor for super cheap to use.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 10, 2012)

As much as I like the Randall, the Kemper with an Alto TS112A or TS115A will stomp all over it, with gigging, rehersal, and practice. 

Also, sound > looks, for fuck sake.


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## ExplicitOfTimeBand (Dec 10, 2012)

Oh, alright, so the Alto is the Poweramp and the speaker in once? nice! but that would be 1800&#8364;... I have those but the Randall + cab would be 1000&#8364; less! Which I could invest in other gear like a 7-string guitar or stuff like building up my place for homerecording... Anyway, thanks a lot for the hint, didn't know about Alto!!


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## ShadowAMD (Dec 10, 2012)

I went for a real amp.. 

Out of my one month limited experience of the Kemper, it reacted and played just like a recorded amp.. There was just something about the sound quality, like it records everything in 22Khz audio??

No matter what I profiled, where I downloaded upgrades from etc.. It didn't work for me.. I was an earlier adopter though? About four months ago? So it could have changed since then.


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## ExplicitOfTimeBand (Dec 10, 2012)

I wonder if that Alto is enough to play together with the band.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 10, 2012)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gear-equipment/185222-new-frfr-day-alto-ts115as-hd-video.html


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## VESmedic (Dec 10, 2012)

Not good for playing shows??? And you base this off what???


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## Larrikin666 (Dec 10, 2012)

I play a Kemper in a band setting. I have two powered monitors, but I generally only ever need one. I can easily drown out my drummer who is incredibly loud.


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## mongey (Dec 10, 2012)

One of the big deciding factors is do you want an amp with a base tone you love and work with that or do you want an amp that can sound like 100 different amps

There's no right answer . Depends what you like. Personally I find too many options can get in the way.


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## MetalDaze (Dec 10, 2012)

If you are worried about guys making fun of a modeler on stage, then by all means get the Randall. Opinions are changing on that, but there will always be old school guys that won't like it.

But, I think you'll be missing out. If you get tired of the Randall, you have to sell it and buy a new amp. Conversely, you can just download a new profile with the Kemper and there are lots of quality ones out there profiled off of dream rigs.


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## glpg80 (Dec 10, 2012)

It really comes down to how close is close enough for you. Nothing will fully replace a tube amplifier because less you forget, the kempers are modeling a tube amplifier sound to begin with. There are additional live benefits like running FRFR and direct feeds for the FOH. Additionally you get the added benefit of not needing to keep up your tubes in your tube amplifier. This can be a bad or good thing - as with my tube amplifiers if i want to mix things up a bit and try a different tube layout then it is like owning a new amplifier.

Also i have the tube amplifiers that i do for simplicity. I also have speaker combinations in mind that do not exist in a modeler. I also enjoy the feel of a real amplifier. With it comes what others consider negatives but i do not like what i hear in kemper high gain sounds while their cleans are excellent.

It really depends on what you want and what is considered close enough. I know alot of guys who went to modelers and then back to tube amplifiers. I know others who regret selling X amplifier for a Kemper as well even though they can download said model from their database.

You should choose based on what you need and prefer and not what others consider better or worse.


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## VESmedic (Dec 11, 2012)

glpg80 said:


> It really comes down to how close is close enough for you. Nothing will fully replace a tube amplifier because less you forget, the kempers are modeling a tube amplifier sound to begin with. There are additional live benefits like running FRFR and direct feeds for the FOH. Additionally you get the added benefit of not needing to keep up your tubes in your tube amplifier. This can be a bad or good thing - as with my tube amplifiers if i want to mix things up a bit and try a different tube layout then it is like owning a new amplifier.
> 
> Also i have the tube amplifiers that i do for simplicity. I also have speaker combinations in mind that do not exist in a modeler. I also enjoy the feel of a real amplifier. With it comes what others consider negatives but i do not like what i hear in kemper high gain sounds while their cleans are excellent.
> 
> ...




Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I use to run a Diezel Herbert and a VHT UL in stereo, sold everything, now use the KPA direct to FOH, with occasionally my mackie HD1531 pumping up front, and I've never been happier. I've owned it all over the years, and gigged with it all, and I have never had a better sound live, or in the studio, than I do with the Kemper. The simplicity of bringing my ground control pro, my satanic toaster, and a 2 space (line 6 g90, furman power conditioner) rack to a gig, is pure bliss. The profiles I made of my own diezel herbert, my VHT UL, and the professional profiles I have from a personal friend who records some of the biggest metal records on the planet, are indistinguishable from the original amps, it really is that simple. The benefits of everything the Kemper can do vastly outweigh any "cons" that I could think of in todays "modern guitar player" world. Soundmen will love you, you make their job easy, your studio will love you, because Im betting you aren't going to be tracking with andy sneap anytime soon and thus won't be able to get the best tones on earth: but with the Kemper, you can do it all from your bedroom, and then take those sounds from your album to the live stage...Just ask whitechapel, they do it.

All the axe fx boys are gonna get their panties in a notch with this one: Some of the biggest producers in the world are now using the Kemper on huge production metal albums ( i am talking metal specifically, there are others, but hey, this is SSO)and swear by it, and stand behind the product. I have not heard of the Axe FX being used in some of the most famous studios in the world and being used by some of your favorite producers. could be wrong, but the guys I personally pay attention to, don't, and never have. My good producer friend of mine is one of them, and hated the axe, however uses the kemper on almost every album now. So, take that for what you want, it is what it is. To me, that says more than anything what an outstanding product it is. These guys can literally use anything they want, and they choose to use it. I trust his ear, Andy Sneaps, and of course, my own. YMMV, but this is my experience. I can't say enough about the KPA, it is by far the best piece of equipment I have ever bought since I started playing guitar in the mid 90's.


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## wlfers (Dec 11, 2012)

get randall and wait.

buy kemper rackmount in xx amount of time. (my plan)


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## Sephael (Dec 11, 2012)

I've thought about the Kemper as rack unit and at first I was like oh yeah daddy wants, but then I contemplated the functionality of such a unit. Without a new layout of controls it will be a 5u piece of gear. If not you are looking at smaller controls and display. And if it was to be easy to set up to profile new gear it would have to be made deeper so that you can easily access it from the rear of a rack. 

That rear expansion might give room to add a power amp, if so well add that to the cost, if not plan on possibly requiring an extra rack space. I don't know how good the effects on the unit are either, so toss in another space or two for a multieffect. Power conditioner, wireless unit, whatever else and you are looking at a fairly big rack.


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## wlfers (Dec 11, 2012)

i remember hearing "3u" tossed around in the whispers, i believe with some computer functionality/editor it would be manageable. i got over my heavy rack days a few years ago so i've been pretty minimal with the accessories. i believe most rack owners are ready to break their backs anyway haha, I keep mine to 5units with a vht power amp.


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## robindevo (Dec 11, 2012)

There's no reason to be ashamed of playing a show with a kemper.


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## VESmedic (Dec 11, 2012)

robindevo said:


> There's no reason to be ashamed of playing a show with a kemper.





And even if some retard would (tell them to shut up, drink their beer and enjoy the show like a NORMAL person for starters), they would quickly shut the fuck up when they heard it....trust me.


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## mongey (Dec 11, 2012)

VESmedic said:


> And even if some retard would (tell them to shut up, drink their beer and enjoy the show like a NORMAL person for starters), they would quickly shut the fuck up when they heard it....trust me.



+1. I'm tube head guy but fuck what other people will think. Get the gear you want. Fuck the cork sniffing fuckers who will judge a player on what gear they like and choose to buy.


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## flint757 (Dec 11, 2012)

I have a kemper and Axe-fx and I'd be more apt to bringing those to a gig than my Mark IV. 

Appearances aren't everything.


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## Given To Fly (Dec 11, 2012)

You could make the Kemper work in a live situation, though I'm not sure what foot controllers are available for it. 

I suppose you have to figure out what takes priority: recording or performing. But keep in mind anything digital, Kemper/AxeFX/iMac/whatever, has a limited life span (3-5 years) before its obsolete. Hardware, in this case tube amps, pretty much stay the same for decades. 

A high quality old tube amp sounds good. 
A high quality new tube sounds good. 
A high quality new digital unit sounds good. 
A high quality old digital unit is completely forgotten about.


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## petereanima (Dec 11, 2012)

The US guys that chime in here should also consider that playing gigs in Europe (OP is from Luxemburg) is different than in the US. In Europe, in 99% of all cases, you only bring your amp to the show. Cabs etc. are provided, so if he plans to gig, and gets the Kemper, he would have to get a poweramp that can be connected to a guitarcab (and also adjust his presets etc. for that setup). For practice he would have to get a guitar cab himself (or a powered monitor, which would leave the poweramp for gigs only - but it would be pretty hard to adjust your sounds to such a setup without beeing able to adjust it at rehearsals etc.).


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## flint757 (Dec 11, 2012)

Given To Fly said:


> You could make the Kemper work in a live situation, though I'm not sure what foot controllers are available for it.
> 
> I suppose you have to figure out what takes priority: recording or performing. But keep in mind anything digital, Kemper/AxeFX/iMac/whatever, has a limited life span (3-5 years) before its obsolete. Hardware, in this case tube amps, pretty much stay the same for decades.
> 
> ...



Obsolete is definitely the wrong word and that is not even universally true. Obsolete implies no longer usable or broken which neither is the case with good quality hardware, especially if it already meets your expectations. People don't have to always buy the next best thing, I don't. I've got the Axe-fx Ultra still, it is definitely not obsolete . Prices, if the newer versions is in fact better is released, do diminish faster, but honestly no worse than an amp. Used triple rec's go for about ~$1000-$1300. New costs like ~$2300-$2500. Since the latest Triple Rec's release my old one was actually harder to sell because it lacked some of the newer features. Ultra, when new, was ~$2200 I believe and I bought mine for ~$1400 used. The only real difference there is repairs. One can be, in most cases, universally repaired and the other would have to go back to manufacturer. Both can still be fixed if broken though. Amps, if tube, will in fact need maintenance more often too.

TC Electronics G Force goes for the same price used as it did a few years ago as well so not all electronics are on this perpetual decline either. In any case, we don't buy things to sell we buy them to play and sometimes end up selling them. If the product sounds good today and remains functional it is not 'obsolete' 5 years from now even if it is worth less. 

My Rectifier had to be sold a couple hundred below optimal potential value so it also has to do with the market you are in as well. My only point is that is a really bad argument that I hear way too often.



petereanima said:


> The US guys that chime in here should also consider that playing gigs in Europe (OP is from Luxemburg) is different than in the US. In Europe, in 99% of all cases, you only bring your amp to the show. Cabs etc. are provided, so if he plans to gig, and gets the Kemper, he would have to get a poweramp that can be connected to a guitarcab (and also adjust his presets etc. for that setup). For practice he would have to get a guitar cab himself (or a powered monitor, which would leave the poweramp for gigs only - but it would be pretty hard to adjust your sounds to such a setup without beeing able to adjust it at rehearsals etc.).



They don't have PA systems as well (plug directly in)? If they do then he doesn't need to use the cabs so that wouldn't actually be an issue. He can just bring his own stage monitors too and forget the cab all together.


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## petereanima (Dec 11, 2012)

flint757 said:


> They don't have PA systems as well (plug directly in)?



Well, the one thing you don't want to do is to mess with the local soundguys. If you unplug the mic (and with that move the micstand etc.etc.), he will kill you, you start to extend the setup time (usually 10 minutes - that includes one band getting their shit off, and the next band getting their stuff set up). Also most clubs have placed the cabs accordingly as "additional PA" for the audience. (which is shit, but unfortunately many still do this)

Don't get me wrong - I am well aware of the pro's of going direct (I have an Axe II myself), but there are many con's, at least here. I play currently about 30-40 gigs per year, and I think at maximum 2 or 3 of it, it wouldnt have been a problem going direct. On all others, it would have caused troubles.


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## flint757 (Dec 11, 2012)

Good to know.

You could still bring stage monitors up on stage and use them as cabs (assuming that is all the crowd hears anyway), but if they then mic the cab (in this case the monitor) it would sound like shit.


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## ExplicitOfTimeBand (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks a lot guys! Glad to hear some honest opinions. Playing live with the kemper, I didn't mean that you'd be really ashamed of it but more like that a fat amp head just looks cooler on stage 
Anyway, thanks again for the tips, many stuff that's good to know!

At the moment I'm more convinced buying a real amp. I think it's more useful when I see what I'm going to do in the future. Okay, recording an album. But maybe already in summer having my first live shows, and no small ones, on the biggest gigs here in Luxembourg even. I must practise with the band a lot now for that. I think the Randall would be the right thing for that.


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 11, 2012)

ShadowAMD said:


> I went for a real amp..
> 
> Out of my one month limited experience of the Kemper, it reacted and played just like a recorded amp.. There was just something about the sound quality, like it records everything in 22Khz audio??
> 
> No matter what I profiled, where I downloaded upgrades from etc.. It didn't work for me.. I was an earlier adopter though? About four months ago? So it could have changed since then.



It all depends what profile you use and how well it was profiled. I really didn't like any of the commercial ones but the Amp Factory Packs have really brought the KPA to a whole new level. They have also made a lot of updates to the spdif + recording output options but its still considered a "Beta" product since some of the features still haven't been implemented.


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## ShadowAMD (Dec 12, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> It all depends what profile you use and how well it was profiled. I really didn't like any of the commercial ones but the Amp Factory Packs have really brought the KPA to a whole new level. They have also made a lot of updates to the spdif + recording output options but its still considered a "Beta" product since some of the features still haven't been implemented.



I think I'll be interested in re-visiting it once it's been out a couple of years and people have really hit the ground running with it.

I did record direct with it so? Not sure how much of impact it had.


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## Luke Acacia (Dec 14, 2012)

I have that Randal....Get the Kemper for sure!

You can always just borrow one some day and model it if you really like the tone.


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## flint757 (Dec 14, 2012)

If price is an important factor for you I mean the Randall is basically a grand cheaper. I've always regretted purchases made with my wallet though. 

Why the Randal? Do no other amps strike your interest because if you are determined to get a tube amp then like I said you have a lot to work with if you have enough for the Kemper already. I have the Kemper and love it. In that price range the Axe-fx is also an option or 11R, hd500 and tons of tube amps. The sky is the limit.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 14, 2012)

If you want to get a Randall, I'm going to preach what I always preach...

Randall V2, T2, or MTS series. They are worth it. Just listen to Veil of Maya's [id] and you'll hear what the V2 is capable of.


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## Red&Die (Dec 14, 2012)

I love my Kemper, and I haven't plug into my Mako MAK2 amp head for 13 months already...


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 14, 2012)

ShadowAMD said:


> I think I'll be interested in re-visiting it once it's been out a couple of years and people have really hit the ground running with it.
> 
> I did record direct with it so? Not sure how much of impact it had.



I'd say it would be worth checking out after the NAMM show. There are a lot of rumors on the KPA forum that a big update is coming then.


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## loktide (Dec 14, 2012)

petereanima said:


> Well, the one thing you don't want to do is to mess with the local soundguys. If you unplug the mic (and with that move the micstand etc.etc.), he will kill you, you start to extend the setup time (usually 10 minutes - that includes one band getting their shit off, and the next band getting their stuff set up). Also most clubs have placed the cabs accordingly as "additional PA" for the audience. (which is shit, but unfortunately many still do this)
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I am well aware of the pro's of going direct (I have an Axe II myself), but there are many con's, at least here. I play currently about 30-40 gigs per year, and I think at maximum 2 or 3 of it, it wouldnt have been a problem going direct. On all others, it would have caused troubles.



i have to agree with peter. i've played with an axe std live as well as a kemper, and it's just a lot easier and less hassle using a real amp in almost every occasion... with mic'ed cabs already set up at the gig, the sound is also often worse when going direct since the sound guy has everything set up for the mic/cab and there's never really time for tone-tweaking. unless you're the headliner in a 'good' venue, which my band isn't 


i have owned an axefx std, now own a kemper, and still own various amps. for playing with a band, there's nothing as satisfactory as a real amp. it's WAY easier to dial in and will also sound and feel better. unless you're into the 'compressor-noisegate-tubescreamer-noisegate-amp-noisegate' kind of tone/response, of course 

if you plan to record an mostly play at home, a modeler is definitely more convenient


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## Duke318 (Dec 14, 2012)

My friend and I have a setup with my kemper through a QSC K12 monitor, and his Randall RH200 w/ Crate 4x12. My rig blows his away everytime, trust me.


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