# Guitar Craft Program at MI worth it?



## Guamskyy (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey guys, I was just wondering if flying out to L.A and living the life of a poor college kid would be worth the ability to build my own guitars... I have mixed feelings about this. First, I really want to learn how to build guitars, but I also aspire to be a wildlife biologist. If I could, how would I do both? Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but any help or guidance would be appreciated.


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## JamesM (Dec 1, 2010)

How would you do both? Well, you'd spend about two or three years at MI only to leave with nothing but student loans and a certificate saying you "graduated." Then you would acquire more student loans to follow the second passion of Wildlife Biology. In four to five years (though likely more to land a solid job) you will have been in so much debt you will be paying for loans with more loans.

Just go to school for Biology and practice luthiery on your own. Shit, work at a local cabinet maker over the summer!

EDIT:
For what it's worth, my campus (Missouri S&T) while it is known for engineering has a stellar Biology department, and is a world leader in Biomechanic research, and one of the top research institutions in the world (research being important to a Biologist because, well, that is what they do!). We also have a lot of people from Texas here, for some reason...


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## Guamskyy (Dec 1, 2010)

The Armada said:


> How would you do both? Well, you'd spend about two or three years at MI only to leave with nothing but student loans and a certificate saying you "graduated." Then you would acquire more student loans to follow the second passion of Wildlife Biology. In four to five years (though likely more to land a solid job) you will have been in so much debt you will be paying for loans with more loans.
> 
> Just go to school for Biology and practice luthiery on your own. Shit, work at a local cabinet maker over the summer!



See, this is what I was wondering, but more feedback would be swell


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## JamesM (Dec 1, 2010)

guambomb832 said:


> See, this is what I was wondering, but more feedback would be swell



I have one friend at MI and two out of MI. The two out of it wish they never went (while they are _amazing_ musicians now) and the one there is close to saying the same thing.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 1, 2010)

Well if you go, then you'll see me there as well. I was all for luthiery classes for making amps, but there are no schools here in cali that teach it, so I'm going with my next best choice of building guitars.

Personally I'm terrible at woodworking, but I want to learn. I just hope the ones I build don't end up like a DeVries. 

Cool part is that I'm being funded via the state (through department of rehabilitation. it's a service for helping disabled people find job training and employment) so I won't have to rack up a hefty debt.

Well if you decided to hold off, I can always get back to you within the next few months when I start. (I still have to complete the medical testing right now regarding my hearing loss, but once completed, I'll be starting the next available semester)

If there are any here I'd like to know more about the courses as well, if possible.
Who knows, maybe I'll even find a way to fund a GIT certificate.


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## squid-boy (Dec 1, 2010)

Luthier Programs at Summit SchoolI live about 20-30 minutes North of Qualicum Beach/Qualicum, and granted, if you ever picked to go there for some schooling/training, and I was in a large place (such as a townhome or house instead of this two bedroom apartment) I'd be willing to let you live with me - as long as you paid a fraction of the rent. I live with two females, though, who PMS at the same time. It can be a battlefield. ​


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## JamesM (Dec 1, 2010)

ghstofperdition said:


> Well if you go, then you'll see me there as well. I was all for luthiery classes for *making amps*, but there are no schools here in cali that teach it, so I'm going with my next best choice of building guitars.



That's called Electrical Engineering my friend.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 2, 2010)

The Armada said:


> That's called Electrical Engineering my friend.



Which as the great Ian Egnater explained to me in my other thread regarding this in the amps section, is completely useless when it comes to building amps because you'll almost NEVER see anything on tube technology. It's all ICs and transistors now.

Sorry to say, that I can't sell the rehab people that my job training would consist of them buying me an amp kit and letting me tinker with it (as Ian suggested I try doing), so guitar luthiery is my next best option. Besides, I could always transfer some of that training over to carpentry/construction if need be.


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## JamesM (Dec 2, 2010)

ghstofperdition said:


> Which as the great Ian Egnater explained to me in my other thread regarding this in the amps section, is completely useless when it comes to building amps because you'll almost NEVER see anything on tube technology. It's all ICs and transistors now.
> 
> Sorry to say, that I can't sell the rehab people that my job training would consist of them buying me an amp kit and letting me tinker with it (as Ian suggested I try doing), so guitar luthiery is my next best option. Besides, I could always transfer some of that training over to carpentry/construction if need be.



While this is true about no more vacuum tube implementation, not only does a great deal of the know-how in modern circuitry carry over (or carry back I should say), but to modern EEs it is child's play. You are still taught components and what these components do, why and how. More than enough, honestly. You just need drive to develop it into something good. 

I am in no way saying Egnater is incorrect, I'm merely saying that while on a metaphoric "level three," you should be able to handle levels two and one. A few EE professors on campus build some very, very nice tube preamps in their spare time and sell them for great sums of cash. They also refer to these things as primitive in comparison to their day-to-day projects.

It is good to see that you are following up on something you want do though, not to be patronizing.


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## Necromechanical (Dec 5, 2010)

The Armada said:


> I have one friend at MI and two out of MI. The two out of it wish they never went (while they are _amazing_ musicians now) and the one there is close to saying the same thing.



Why on earth do they wish they never went??!!??


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## JamesM (Dec 5, 2010)

Besides the fact that they paid large deals of capital for nothing but a piece of paper that has official weight nowhere?

It isn't a degree, it is a "certificate."

So they play very nicely now, so what. Dan is _still_ working at Schnucks and Tom is _still_ working at a pizza joint.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 5, 2010)

The Armada said:


> Besides the fact that they paid large deals of capital for nothing but a piece of paper that has official weight nowhere?
> 
> It isn't a degree, it is a "certificate."
> 
> So they play very nicely now, so what. Dan is _still_ working at Schnucks and Tom is _still_ working at a pizza joint.




I thought they had a great job placement for those that complete the programs?


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## JamesM (Dec 5, 2010)

Well, personal experience, despite what statistics say, indicates otherwise. And having known these guys for ten years, I know they legitimately tried. 

One was offered to teach drum lessons for an average wage of lower than he was/is making at Schnucks. He then, logically, declined.

Both are now piling up more debt getting real degrees.


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## AK DRAGON (Dec 5, 2010)

The Armada said:


> How would you do both? Well, you'd spend about two or three years at MI only to leave with nothing but student loans and a certificate saying you "graduated." Then you would acquire more student loans to follow the second passion of Wildlife Biology. In four to five years (though likely more to land a solid job) you will have been in so much debt you will be paying for loans with more loans.
> 
> Just go to school for Biology and practice luthiery on your own. Shit, work at a local cabinet maker over the summer!
> 
> ...



+1 This man knows the value of the school of hard knocks. 

Go do your wildlife Biology degree and apprentice at a cabinet shop to help pay for your school. That will give you the woodworking skills you will need and they may let you (maybe even help) on your down time at the shop to build a guitar or two.


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## JamesM (Dec 5, 2010)

If you are still checking this thread, Guambomb, you should really check out Scherzo's build thread.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...ations/123272-pretending-to-be-a-luthier.html

He is not trained in luthiery at all, yet is making some _beautiful_ things. I think doing things, and learning things, by yourself is fading further and further as technology progresses. I'd rather fuck up terribly than learn from a How-To.

For what it's worth, I'm terrible with woodwork and have only worked under others who could instruct me on what to do. I'm merely a huge advocate of doing things yourself, especially that which is impossible. 

I suppose that's the astrophysicist-wannabe in me.  I also don't want to be misleading, I'm just a 19 year old kid. I don't have experience in this, I've actually just recently made these decisions myself. However, I make a point of surrounding myself with a lot of people that are much more intelligent and wise than I am, so usually my opinions have their factored in.


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