# More .strandberg* Innovation



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

*The EndurNeck*

















> I am proud to present the first result of a collaboration with Al Mu&#8217;min of the HAARP Machine, and the subject of my first ever patent application, the EndurNeck!
> 
> The EndurNeck allows you to play longer, faster and better by providing not only better support for the muscles and tendons of your fingers, palm, and forearm, but also acts as a guide that helps you straighten your wrist when playing the lower frets. Drawing on concepts like Jerome Little&#8217;s Torzal Natural Twist and Rick Toone&#8217;s Trapezoid Neck Profile, the EndurNeck is a brand new innovation that requires no special tools or techniques to manufacture or maintain.
> 
> ...



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Of course as soon as I finally pick out what neck shape to get this comes along. 

It makes sense, as it's kinda like the "compound radius" of neck shapes, allowing for different hand positions to be supported at different areas of the neck.


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## JamesM (Jan 9, 2012)

Super awesome.


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## sell2792 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd love to feel one of these necks, though that'll probably never happen.


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## synrgy (Jan 9, 2012)

Damn it.. I really didn't need _another_ excuse to sell everything I own to start over from scratch.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

synrgy said:


> Damn it.. I really didn't need _another_ excuse to sell everything I own to start over from scratch.



Ola's pricing is REALLY fair, his builds start at ~$2300 USD with $1000 paid at the beginning of the build. With a one year waiting list and sixteen month build time it's fairly easy to save up for. Not cheap by any means, but with most options built in, it's a great deal.

It can be a little difficult to spend $1k and get nothing for over a year, but that's the name of the game with custom instruments.

I 100% understand you though, I'm not rich by any means either.


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## synrgy (Jan 9, 2012)

Oh, I'm certainly not complaining about pricing. From what I've seen of his work, I honestly think he's not charging enough. I just don't think I could justify the purchase of a custom without first selling off some of my cheaper gear. While I'm certainly not "well to do", the issue isn't funds so much as it is space, given that I currently reside in a 9'X20' (give or take) space. I'm already struggling to make space for all the crap I already own. 

*edit* All that said, this neck design is VERY attractive to me right now, as I'm still trying to figure out with doctors what the problem with my fret hand is; it's suffered a rather severe amount of muscle atrophy over the last few years. Current theory is an issue with the radial nerve in my left arm. Jury's still out on whether or not this is the kind of atrophy that can regenerate after the problem is solved. Long story short, I'm having a hard time playing at all on my current instruments.


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## Xiphos68 (Jan 9, 2012)

This neck could be possibly be a great help to me as well, I've had a lot of problems for the past years with my wrist and now it's my forearm. I have a burning in forearm even when I'm playing and not playing. Not sure what it is? Though when I go to GC and I try different guitars my arm seems not to bother me as much?

Maybe I do need a new neck? I've been looking at getting a custom for a while. Maybe this is the way to go. So a barebones Stranberg is just 2300$ MOM?


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## sell2792 (Jan 9, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ola's pricing is REALLY fair, his builds start at ~$2300 USD with $1000 paid at the beginning of the build.


 


 WHAT?!! That's not bad, at all! I might seriously have to look into one in a year or so... I was thinking they're like $6000-8000.


Any idea how much something similar to #10 runs?


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## XEN (Jan 9, 2012)

Ola.
Nuff said.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

synrgy said:


> *edit* All that said, this neck design is VERY attractive to me right now, as I'm still trying to figure out with doctors what the problem with my fret hand is; it's suffered a rather severe amount of muscle atrophy over the last few years. Current theory is an issue with the radial nerve in my left arm. Jury's still out on whether or not this is the kind of atrophy that can regenerate after the problem is solved. Long story short, I'm having a hard time playing at all on my current instruments.


 
I'm really sorry to hear this man. 



Xiphos68 said:


> Maybe I do need a new neck? I've been looking at getting a custom for a while. Maybe this is the way to go. So a barebones Stranberg is just 2300$ MOM?


 
The starting price on a 6-string EGS is 16000 SEK, which translates into ~$2300 depending on the exchange rate for a given time period. The SEK doesn't really fluctuate as much, at least not for the past year or so I've been looking at Ola's stuff. 

A barebones EGS still has tons of available options. You get to choose your scale and neck shape, have a selection of half a dozen body, top, neck, and fretboatd woods, etc. 



sell2792 said:


> WHAT?!! That's not bad, at all! I might seriously have to look into one in a year or so... I was thinking they're like $6000-8000.
> 
> 
> Any idea how much something similar to #10 runs?


 
Check out the pricing here: How to Order | .strandberg* Guitars.

Even my absolutely decked out EGS8 is probably going to come in under $6k.


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## sell2792 (Jan 9, 2012)

Looks like I just found something to save for... What I want comes out to approx 24,000 GEK so Ive gotta find a converter.


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## Jontain (Jan 9, 2012)

Interesting, always good to see new ideas coming out.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> Looks like I just found something to save for... What I want comes out to approx 24,000 GEK so Ive gotta find a converter.


 
You're looking at just under $3500 USD, not including shiping and associated fees/taxes. 

Though, you'll probably still just have the 7000 SEK (~$1000) deposit once the build begins, then the remaing ~$2500 USD after over a year. Factor in a few $100 more for shipping and inportation.


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## sell2792 (Jan 9, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're looking at just under $3500 USD, not including shiping and associated fees/taxes.
> 
> Though, you'll probably still just have the 7000 SEK (~$1000) deposit once the build begins, then the remaing ~$2500 USD after over a year. Factor in a few $100 more for shipping and inportation.


 

Still, $1000 upfront and another $2500 over the course of a year ain't bad for a custom guitar, especially ones this amazing. Do you have yours yet, and or have you played one? I'd be really interested in gettting it with that neck.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 9, 2012)

Ohhh man. I was thinking of liscensing the neck profile from Rick toone, but this is sweet! I hope that neck profile is free to create under CC. I would still pay for a liscense though.


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## BlackMastodon (Jan 9, 2012)

Damn, when I saw Rick Toone's trapezoidal profile I thought to myself that I would try and make one for myself and see how I like it on a home build. Then as I played more and more I started to realize the position of my thumb changes in basically the exact same way that this strandberg neck is shaped. Now I'm gonna look unoriginal when/if I do it .

This is an awesome idea though, and strandbergs are beautiful guitars. I was another one who expected his guitars to be well over $5k but was quite surprised when I priced one out just for shits.


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## Goatchrist (Jan 9, 2012)

That's all nice and good, but since I will never have the money nor the patience to purchase one of these.. I will be crying alone in my room...


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 9, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> Ohhh man. I was thinking of liscensing the neck profile from Rick toone, but this is sweet! I hope that neck profile is free to create under CC. I would still pay for a liscense though.



Well, if he's patented the neck profile, then you'd have to license it.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't think I'd ever get one, but im curious about this EndurNeck. Im still curious on the prices too, just to guage how drastic it is compared to some other custom shops. 

Is this EndurNeck an upcharge or is it included in the "barebones" price you guys are mentioning?

Anyone from the US/Canada receive one yet outside of Tosin and Misha? How much did the shipping/duties/etc come out to approx??

Morseo, I want to know about the Tremolo bridge he sells; but hard to get info on it. Thats something I could see myself ordering. although his site says Graphtech Ghost piezo bridge is available for standard bridges; anyone know if that means its available for the tremolo too?


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Jan 9, 2012)

Well this seals the deal. I vow that my first custom will be a Strandberg. 

(Now to get a job)


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 9, 2012)

The thing that worries me about all these revolutionary ideas luthiers have, is there's no real way to try them before hand. I mean there's a chance you don't like this sort of profile however logical and clever it is. You might just be more used to traditional neck profiles. I'd love to get a Strandberg down the line, as they seem to be exactly the sort of guitar I need. However I'm not sure whether I'd want to risk getting such a different neck profile.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 9, 2012)

NickCormier said:


> Morseo, I want to know about the Tremolo bridge he sells; but hard to get info on it. Thats something I could see myself ordering. although his site says Graphtech Ghost piezo bridge is available for standard bridges; anyone know if that means its available for the tremolo too?



My friend and a poster on here, Hal Sinden, recently ordered one for a custom he is having made. He'll most likely post it here when it is done.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 9, 2012)

Looks pretty awesome!!!! I noticed the neck was an odd shape in his demo video:



Its probably very good for playing live. I'd never get one though since necks are probably the only part of a guitar that don't bother me unless their unfinished or dirty.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 9, 2012)

Looks pretty awesome!!!! I noticed the neck was an odd shape in his demo video:



Its probably very good for playing live. I'd never get one though since necks are probably the only part of a guitar that don't bother me unless their unfinished or dirty.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 9, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Looks pretty awesome!!!! I noticed the neck was an odd shape in his demo video:
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably very good for playing live. I'd never get one though since necks are probably the only part of a guitar that don't bother me unless their unfinished or dirty.




this guy is a fucking machine.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> The thing that worries me about all these revolutionary ideas luthiers have, is there's no real way to try them before hand. I mean there's a chance you don't like this sort of profile however logical and clever it is. You might just be more used to traditional neck profiles. I'd love to get a Strandberg down the line, as they seem to be exactly the sort of guitar I need. However I'm not sure whether I'd want to risk getting such a different neck profile.


 
I'm sure something could be worked out that if you didn't like the instrument you could return it (sans shipping costs) for a refund and the guitar made available to one of the nearly 100 people already on the waiting list. 

I see what you mean though. I had to sit down and carve some foam boards in this shape before I was sold on it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> Still, $1000 upfront and another $2500 over the course of a year ain't bad for a custom guitar, especially ones this amazing. Do you have yours yet, and or have you played one? I'd be really interested in gettting it with that neck.


 
I still have a lot of time ahead of me. I'm slot 37 and 66.


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## glassmoon0fo (Jan 9, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I still have a lot of time ahead of me. I'm slot 37 and 66.


 
so did he tell you your position or is the wait list posted somewhere? He just told me that I'm confirmed but didn't make mention of a spot number.


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## AndrewG716 (Jan 9, 2012)

Damn it. I was thinking of doing something along these lines. Now I'll have to make it somehow different so I don't feel like a patent stealing, copycatting asshole.


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## vansinn (Jan 9, 2012)

Yes, I can see the potential benefits with the transition from a more steep profile at the thumb side at the headstock end to the flatter body end part.
Not so sure about the other side of the neck, at least not close to the body.

Whatever.. as much as I seriously adore Ola's great works, it's another patent..
Does anyone have a patent covering the not so rarely seen asymmmetrical (softly rounded) V profile, or can we still build a sell a guitar with this profile?
The fairly sharply defined trapezoidal shap is already patented..
What I mean is, in a not so distant past, a patent was granted on a fanned fret layout, despite the fact that fanned instrument had been seen like.. a centure ago or so, so how come patents are so lushly granted, when often it's a matter of a small design twist in this or that direction?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand why patents are taken, but they have a tendency to keep the world from progressing, and end up either being implemented in things for the few, or, if sufficiently general by nature, a large usergroup sharing the expense of usage royalties.
The latter may be said to be a fair financial burdon, but even so, patents often ends up restricting further developing an idea or using the concept in derivative works.


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## JP Universe (Jan 9, 2012)

Great.... another neck to consider now  

I'm going all out on my build and am just willing to take the risk based on research, reviews etc. I'm number 57 anyways on the list so i'm sure there will be heaps more information by the time my build commences.

(looks for Strandberg specs thread to bump)


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Jan 9, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> The thing that worries me about all these revolutionary ideas luthiers have, is there's no real way to try them before hand. I mean there's a chance you don't like this sort of profile however logical and clever it is. You might just be more used to traditional neck profiles. I'd love to get a Strandberg down the line, as they seem to be exactly the sort of guitar I need. However I'm not sure whether I'd want to risk getting such a different neck profile.



This is pretty true, and while I haven't been able to try any of the awesome neck concepts Ola and Rick Toone have developed, the mere fact that they are taking the craft of luthiery above and beyond the norm is enough to get my attention. And I've spoken to Chris Letchford after a show in Cleveland and he talked his up big time. Even though I might go for a more traditional neck like he did. I'm still completely sold on Strandberg.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 9, 2012)

Yeah his pricing is great, I wish more luthiers lived out in NA though...customs + shipping can rape...and rape hard


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## Thrashmanzac (Jan 9, 2012)

no offence to ola, but this looks very similar to the work rick toone has been doing with intersecting planes neck designs. i know ola has had permission to use a rick toone design before (i think it was for tosins guitar).
either way it looks pretty neat


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 9, 2012)

He liscensed toone's design meaning he pays toone, its fine


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## Thrashmanzac (Jan 9, 2012)

ah i see, i wasnt sure if he was liscensing it. the way i have seen it talked about on fb and on here implies that it is a strandberg innovation, when it seems more like a toone innovation being licensed by strandberg. i guess im am just getting confused by some of the language being used. also how will a patent work if the design is licensed from toone?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 9, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> so did he tell you your position or is the wait list posted somewhere? He just told me that I'm confirmed but didn't make mention of a spot number.



The person handling FB for Ola told me my waiting list position was 37 and that there were 65 people on the waiting list, I then asked for another spot which I assume would be 66. 

Keep in mind, being spot 37 doesn't mean I'm getting Strandberg #37, it just means that I'm the 37th person to request a build spot. In reality I'll likely get #40 or #50 somethings. 



vansinn said:


> Yes, I can see the potential benefits with the transition from a more steep profile at the thumb side at the headstock end to the flatter body end part.
> Not so sure about the other side of the neck, at least not close to the body.
> 
> Whatever.. as much as I seriously adore Ola's great works, it's another patent..
> ...



Patenting didn't stifle the Floyd Rose bridge design. 

Also, a patent isn't going to stop this neck being used on one offs by small builders or hobbyists. 

We also don't know what exactly the licensing process will be. It could be very reasonable. 



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah his pricing is great, I wish more luthiers lived out in NA though...customs + shipping can rape...and rape hard



On a build of this price, shipping is a non-issue. It's like buying a Ferrari and then not being able to fill up the gas tank. 



Thrashmanzac said:


> no offence to ola, but this looks very similar to the work rick toone has been doing with intersecting planes neck designs. i know ola has had permission to use a rick toone design before (i think it was for tosins guitar).
> either way it looks pretty neat





Thrashmanzac said:


> ah i see, i wasnt sure if he was liscensing it. the way i have seen it talked about on fb and on here implies that it is a strandberg innovation, when it seems more like a toone innovation being licensed by strandberg. i guess im am just getting confused by some of the language being used. also how will a patent work if the design is licensed from toone?



Ola and Rick have been on great terms for quite some time now, going back to 07'. They have met in person, and share a passion for building instruments that push boundaries. They worked on eLuthrie together and licensed each others work via creative commons licensing. Ola would be the first to say that Rick Toone's ideas are instrumental to this neck design, as well as that of Jerome Little, two folks he mentions in the write up of this neck design.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 10, 2012)

I just means it sucks when you find out tax is like another grand unless your luthier likes alleviating problems like that of course *suspicious cough*


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## Malkav (Jan 10, 2012)

I find this neck to be incredibly awesome in theory, as with most of Strandbergs innovations  I've been thinking about building a guitar this year and I have to admit that the Strandberg body shape and the IPNP neck profiles have been on the top of my "to copy" list - Of course I would ask Ola and Rick for their blessing before making my pitiful copy and I'd wanna buy the hardware etc from them  My reason for wanting to build one is mainly that the waiting list is enormously long and I'm impatient and I live in a country where $2000 would basically be an entire year of my salary provided that I spent absolutely no money at all 

That being said though with the amount of interest Ola is generating and the fact that he has a waiting list that is about 2 years long I could only hope that in future he perhaps could setup a "production brand" and by that I mean an operation similar to Suhr's where there is still potential for custom designs and builds but just with enough automation to allow larger scale production. I realise if this were to ever happen it would only be a decade or two from now but it would be super awesome, I know that the general public may not be swayed by ergonomic, fanned fret, headless guitars but maybe in the future they'll slowly become more open minded


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 10, 2012)

Malkav said:


> I find this neck to be incredibly awesome in theory, as with most of Strandbergs innovations  I've been thinking about building a guitar this year and I have to admit that the Strandberg body shape and the IPNP neck profiles have been on the top of my "to copy" list - Of course I would ask Ola and Rick for their blessing before making my pitiful copy and I'd wanna buy the hardware etc from them  My reason for wanting to build one is mainly that the waiting list is enormously long and I'm impatient and I live in a country where $2000 would basically be an entire year of my salary provided that I spent absolutely no money at all
> 
> That being said though with the amount of interest Ola is generating and the fact that he has a waiting list that is about 2 years long I could only hope that in future he perhaps could setup a "production brand" and by that I mean an operation similar to Suhr's where there is still potential for custom designs and builds but just with enough automation to allow larger scale production. I realise if this were to ever happen it would only be a decade or two from now but it would be super awesome, I know that the general public may not be swayed by ergonomic, fanned fret, headless guitars but maybe in the future they'll slowly become more open minded



I don't think you'll have to worry too much about licensing designs from Rick and/or Ola if you're just making a basic "first build" of your own. All this licensing and patenting is aimed at other builders who make instruments to sell. Just like how FMIC isn't going to sue some kid who puts a Strat headstock on some partscaster he makes in his basement. 

Unfortunately for those looking to replicate the EGS guitars on their own, Ola is no longer producing small batches of hardware to sell separately. He has expressed a willingness to make a large batch, so if you got some other folks interested in a group buy you could potentially get the pieces. 

As for "production" EGS guitars, Ola has hinted that after he works through the bulk of his current waiting list he has plans to introduce a standardized line.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 10, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think you'll have to worry too much about licensing designs from Rick and/or Ola if you're just making a basic "first build" of your own. All this licensing and patenting is aimed at other builders who make instruments to sell. Just like how FMIC isn't going to sue some kid who puts a Strat headstock on some partscaster he makes in his basement.
> 
> Unfortunately for those looking to replicate the EGS guitars on their own, Ola is no longer producing small batches of hardware to sell separately. He has expressed a willingness to make a large batch, so if you got some other folks interested in a group buy you could potentially get the pieces.
> 
> As for "production" EGS guitars, Ola has hinted that after he works through the bulk of his current waiting list he has plans to introduce a standardized line.



You sir are a bringer of good news.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 10, 2012)

How many does he need for a small batch run setup of 7 string Tremolo's? I may be interested in one around July or so, if there is anyone else also interested in them.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 10, 2012)

NickCormier said:


> How many does he need for a small batch run setup of 7 string Tremolo's? I may be interested in one around July or so, if there is anyone else also interested in them.



Not sure, that's something you'd have to work out with him. I was referring to the individual fixed bridges, not the trems. 

Batch or not, those units aren't cheap, so it may be a tough sell to get several made. Definitely worth looking into though. 

I'll ask him about it in my next e-mail, but it'd be best for you to contact him as well.


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## sk3ks1s (Jan 10, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think you'll have to worry too much about licensing designs from Rick and/or Ola if you're just making a basic "first build" of your own.



I've been thinking of a design like this for a while now. It's not until I saw that CAD drawing that I can finally visualize it now. Since I enjoy having super thin necks with sharp shoulders, I can only assume that these trapezoidal necks would be right up my alley. I will definitely be using a profile similar to this in a future build.


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## Rojne (Jan 10, 2012)

It's awesome to live in sweden and not having to pay taxes and stuff like that when ordering an instrument of Ola, I will seriously consider this.. and the neck shape looks really comfortable!!


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## Rook (Jan 10, 2012)

The wait is a year with a 16 month build??? I didn't realise that!

I'm slot 48 I think.

I'm really interested in this neck profile, I'd love to feel it first but tbh I really trust Ola and it's things like this that really make the EGS special to me. I think I went on the list in September so it'd be amazing to pay my deposit September this year. He told me the wait is only going to get shorter because he's gunna quit his job and buy new kit apparently.

Mines gunna be a swamp ash 8, bolt on, carved heel, rosewood neck, haven't decided on top, and probably this neck profile. Want so bad.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 10, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> The wait is a year with a 16 month build???



It's a year if you're at the very back of the line (slot 60+), and possibly longer. His build times are hard to nail down because each build is so different and there's a lot of factors at play. 

I was quoted a 15 to 18 month build time, with a build start date of February/March of this year. 

From the way it's looking, my build may not start until a little later, but I'm 100% fine with that. I knew going in this wasn't going to be a Carvin build. 

If it's timed just right, I should receive my first before my second slot comes up, but we'll see. 

As for guys further down the queue, it's entirely likely that a lot of folks will back out when it comes time to put some cash down.


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## ElRay (Jan 10, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think you'll have to worry too much about licensing designs from Rick and/or Ola if you're just making a basic "first build" of your own.


Sorry, Rick is very clear. With the exception of the few unused "free for private use" licenses, EVERY use requires a $55 licensing fee.

Ola hasn't been granted a patent yet, and I don't know what country/countries he's applied for a patent in.

Ray


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 10, 2012)

ElRay said:


> Sorry, Rick is very clear. With the exception of the few unused "free for private use" licenses, EVERY use requires a $55 licensing fee.
> 
> Ola hasn't been granted a patent yet, and I don't know what country/countries he's applied for a patent in.
> 
> Ray



How can Rick track down every "Basement Builder" in the world who uses one of his concepts? 

I'm not saying he can't charge, or shouldn't. I support people paying the fee. I just don't see it being a big deal for those with no interest in marketing instruments and are just looking to experiment with concepts at home. 

Then again, I don't know Rick too well at all, or even remotely for that matter. 

I was simply saying that I wouldn't worry about litigation, or having to jump through hoops to use the design. I didn't mean to imply that it should be free, nor that it is.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah there's no point in worrying about that, although it should be noted Toone has a few quotes pulled from this site and therefore is clearly watching our every move -_-


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## Animus (Jan 10, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah there's no point in worrying about that, although it should be noted Toone has a few quotes pulled from this site and therefore is clearly watching our every move -_-




I think I just heard a helicopter? Did you guys?


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 11, 2012)

Intellectual property: Serious business.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 11, 2012)

Animus said:


> I think I just heard a helicopter? Did you guys?



I'll bring the tinfoil you bring the brews, we have work to do


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## Durero (Jan 11, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> How can Rick track down every "Basement Builder" in the world who uses one of his concepts?
> 
> I'm not saying he can't charge, or shouldn't. I support people paying the fee...


I would enthusiastically support it too if Toone actually had a proper utility patent for it. He doesn't. He only has a design patent for it which protects it's cosmetic appearance but not it's function.




Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah there's no point in worrying about that, although it should be noted Toone has a few quotes pulled from this site and therefore is clearly watching our every move -_-


I really wish he'd post here (or anywhere) to address the issues around his design patent. I've messaged him directly to ask him about it, but his reply sidestepped the issue completely. It's disappointing to me because I've been a fan of his for years. I really admire how much he pushes boundaries and strives for originality and innovation with his luthiery work. 





TemjinStrife said:


> Intellectual property: Serious business.


 
The Novax fanned-fret patent (thankfully now expired) which had 100's of years of prior art, and Toone's misrepresentation of his TNP design patent as a utility patent shows what a messy business it can be.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 11, 2012)

Some pics of a "real" EndurNeck:























*Note that this was a quickly made DEMO instrument cobbled together from whatever stock was lying around Ola's shop. The materials, their fit, and small perfections are not something you'd see in his true custom instruments. *


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 11, 2012)

Wow, that thing is just sick. Definitly gonna be my next project.


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## Fred the Shred (Jan 11, 2012)

I'll be playing that axe even before NAMM starts. I'm most eager to see how it fares compared to the original trapezoidal neck profile. At the same time, I'll also give the IPNP a go, so I'll have a very solid basis on which to form an opinion as far as ergonomic neck profiles go.


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## sk3ks1s (Jan 11, 2012)

Fan this mother and you're good to go.


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 11, 2012)

sk3ks1s said:


> Fan this mother and you're good to go.


 
it is fanned


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 11, 2012)

Worth noting, this is the first .strandberg* guitar with fanned pickups, demo or not.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 11, 2012)

Worth noting, this is the first .strandberg* guitar with fanned pickups, demo or not.


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## Durero (Jan 11, 2012)

Beautiful!

Nice to see angled pickups too


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## Malkav (Jan 11, 2012)

Those pickups look like the 8 string Alumadjents but just on a sevenstring? Is this the case or has Lace started making actual customs for Ola?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 11, 2012)

Malkav said:


> Those pickups look like the 8 string Alumadjents but just on a sevenstring? Is this the case or has Lace started making actual customs for Ola?





Ola said:


> 3.5&#8243; Lace Aluma-Djents


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 11, 2012)

those are alumadjents indeed

edit: surprise suprise! Ninja'd by Max


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## ElRay (Jan 11, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> How can Rick track down every "Basement Builder" in the world who uses one of his concepts?


True, but he does read SS.o -- I've received offline emails from him regarding posts I've made. It also safe to assume he reads/searches MG.o and ProjectGuitar -- That makes three places where folks that know of his work are likely to post. Plus, it's easy to google Toone, profile, TNP, etc. If an unlicensed builder posts a build/NGD thread, chances are Rick will find it sooner or later.

A basement builder can certainly one-off, but they have to be careful or be prepared for potential confrontation. Unfortunately, given the realities of US patent law, Rick will need to litigate "to a degree", or somebody down the road can claim that the patent should be voided, because it was not being enforced. Novak's business manager took this way to far by trying to extort funds from anybody building a multi-scaled neck (Novak's patent was only for one FLAWED method of laying-out the frets). I'm not saying Rick would do this, but "things happen" and people change.

TL;DR: Yes, the chances are "low", but they're non-zero. 

Ray


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## ElRay (Jan 11, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> Ohhh man. I was thinking of liscensing the neck profile from Rick toone, but this is sweet! I hope that neck profile is free to create under CC. I would still pay for a liscense though.



IIRC, Rick's patent is a "design patent", which protects the way an article looks, and not a "utility patent", which protects the way an article is used and works.

IANAL, but my guess is that Ola's design is sufficiently different not to infringe on Rick's "design patent", even though it's functionality is close enough that it might infringe if Rick had a "utility patent".

And, on top of that, Ola's in Sweden, so Rick would have to get the U.S. Government to seize any shipments from Ola as they came into the country. Again, IANAL, but I don't think there's a whole lot Rick could do once one of Ola's guitars was delivered to a U.S. Customer.

Ray


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## Malkav (Jan 11, 2012)

Well I'm more than happy to pay licensing fees to Mr Toone in order to be allowed to experiment with his innovations, even if I technically don't have to, he's a small luthier and I'd like to support him even if I could never afford one of his customs. 

I do have access to a CNC machine though so if I do go the route of paying licensing fees then I'd hope that he'd be kind enough to maybe share the CAD files for the IPNP, likewise with Ola. It would just be for my own personal use, I just don't earn enough to buy a true custom made by these masters, maybe one day when I'm all grown up 

/off-topic


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## JamesM (Jan 11, 2012)

I'd swoop up that demo guitar in a second if I could. Even Ola's worst work is more than good enough for me.


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## sk3ks1s (Jan 11, 2012)

scherzo1928 said:


> it is fanned



Well, fuck a duck then.
Not much on the ergo/headless thing... but that thing just looks all kinds of comfy.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 11, 2012)

sk3ks1s said:


> Well, fuck a duck then.
> Not much on the ergo/headless thing... but that thing just looks all kinds of comfy.



Its designed like that to play comfortably in different sitting positions.


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## ElRay (Jan 11, 2012)

Durero said:


> I would enthusiastically support it too if Toone actually had a proper utility patent for it. He doesn't. He only has a design patent for it which protects it's cosmetic appearance but not it's function.


And if anybody has the time/money to fight it, (IANAL, but it seems to me that) they stand a good chance of prevailing:
Regarding the original TNP, Rick posted many details on the web prior to submitting the patent -- That can invalidate the patent right-off
Regarding the original TNP, there is prior art of necks built with trapezoidal cross-sections
A design patent cannot be for something that improves functionality, etc. It can only be for a cosmetic element (e.g. the shape of a "Coke Bottle")
Rick's site talks about the functional benefits of the TNP & IPNP, that should require a utility patent and invalidate a design patent.
No animosity towards Rick, but from somebody who's been following ergonomic designs before Rick started posting at Rob Irizarry's BuildingTheErgonomicGuitar Blog and Rick & Rob created eLutherie.Org, that's just the history/facts as I recall/see them.


Durero said:


> The Novax fanned-fret patent (thankfully now expired) which had 100's of years of prior art, ...


That's even worse:
Novax had a patent for a method of laying out the frets, that ONLY WORKED IF THE NECK SIDES WERE PARALLEL
Novax had a trademark on the term "Fanned Fret"
For the licensing fee, builders were allowed to use the term "Fanned Fret" and were taught the parallel scale method of laying-out the frets, not the patented method
Novax's business manager extorted funds from builders of multi-scale guitars by mis-representing the patent.
Builders never did the research and/or were not willing/able to take it to court, so they either gave in and paid the fee, or stopped making multi-scaled instruments

People can surmise all they'd like, but until somebody openly defies the licensing, Rick sues them, the case goes to court, and a decision is rendered (not a settlement), we're all guessing and anybody building will have to decide if they want to pay the fee, or take the risk.

Ray


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## ElRay (Jan 11, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Some pics of a "real" EndurNeck


Does that center section tilt, like Rick's IPNP, or it is parallel to the fretboard, like the original TNP? It's hard to tell, but in some pictures, it looks like it tilts one way at the nut -- the other at the body, and in others it looks flat.

Ray


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 11, 2012)

So...Novax is a patent troll a la Intellectual Ventures except not even in the legal right? That's really too bad they choose to do that because smaller luthiers don't have time/funds to fight legal battles I'm guessing. :\


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 11, 2012)

Alex Gregory is another patent troll.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 11, 2012)

TemjinStrife said:


> Alex Gregory is another patent troll.



That's MAESTRO Alex Gregory to us mortals.


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## Necris (Jan 12, 2012)

Looks awesome, I was wondering what a torzal twist and trapezoidal neck profile would look like combined earlier. Now I (sort of) know.

As far as personal builds, patents and licensing go, if I can figure out how to replicate a patented designthat interests me* for my own personal use* I will use it and attempt to improve upon it if I believe I can, that goes for neck profile, pickups, or anything else I could conceivably build.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Lol, this thread has become all about cosmetic/design patenting.
Anyone have any ideas of improving this neck?, I got a idea I would definitely apply on the neck for better high fret access if I could mod it.


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## Rook (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't handle this!

I love how the note says 'made of random bits around the shop, a real custom won't be flawed like this'

And it's flawless.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 12, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> And it's flawless.



There are some small discoloration marks in the wood, notably on the neck. You can also see areas that didn't get as much fine sanding before finish. 

It's not a wreck, not in the least, but you can see flaws and cut corners for the sake of getting this made for NAMM.


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## mountainjam (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad to see he finally angled the pickups. Seems like he could have matched the angle of the bridge tho.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 12, 2012)

mountainjam said:


> Glad to see he finally angled the pickups. Seems like he could have matched the angle of the bridge tho.



I'm sure you could specify that on your own build. I know I probably am.

Though, with the bridge pickup spaced that far from the bridge it's likely the pickup is following the fan, and not bridge angle.


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## mountainjam (Jan 12, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm sure you could specify that on your own build. I know I probably am.
> 
> Though, with the bridge pickup spaced that far from the bridge it's likely the pickup is following the fan, and not bridge angle.



True. So Max do you know if angled pickups is optional or is Ola moving towards all guitars being angled in the future? Im not sure if it has been said in this thread, but bulb is working with bkp on a factory slanted pickup, maybe for the strandberg?


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## Fred the Shred (Jan 12, 2012)

Ola is not "moving" towards any specific direction - he's attempting to find alternatives he can offer to people. For example, the fan on my own 7 is so subtle the absence of tilted pickups isn't really relevant, while on a more pronounced one it could prove to be more problematic, and something best done via slanting the pickups.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 12, 2012)

mountainjam said:


> True. So Max do you know if angled pickups is optional or is Ola moving towards all guitars being angled in the future? Im not sure if it has been said in this thread, but bulb is working with bkp on a factory slanted pickup, maybe for the strandberg?


 
Ola has never expressed an unwillingness to slant pickups, it's just up to this point no one has really pushed for it, especially considering that high end, passive pickups capable of being slanted are a new development. 

As for Bulb's factory passives, how would that work? Any change to the perpendicular fret (or to the scales to a certain degree) will render it just as useless as slanting a standard pickup.


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## mountainjam (Jan 12, 2012)

@Fred and Max. Thats good to know. After having the chance to briefly jam on Tosin's strandberg last summer, I was very intrigued about owning one in the future, but was turned off by the pickup configuration. As far as the factory slanted pickups, I really have no clue. If the bkps only come in one angle, I guess the guitar would have to be designed around the pickup. But really Im merely speculating. I just happened to notice the other day on FB bulb was mentioning something along the lines that he wasnt happy with the tone of the bridge pup due to it being farther away on the bass side, so he was working with bkp on a factory slanted pickup. Maybe strictly custom, or maybe a production model in the works? Lol your guess is as good as mine.


Edit* found the quote

" The pickup is essentially a bit far from the bridge on the lower strings because the bridge is angled but the pickup is not. Ola is building me a brand new body to replace this one that can accommodate the world's first angled Aftermath 7 pickup that Tim at BKP has been working very hard on for me! Awesome customer service is saving my ass on this one haha!"


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## Blasphemer (Jan 12, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Looks pretty awesome!!!! I noticed the neck was an odd shape in his demo video:
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably very good for playing live. I'd never get one though since necks are probably the only part of a guitar that don't bother me unless their unfinished or dirty.




This is kind of off topic, but does anybody else think that this dude is just TOO accurate? His playing sounds like MIDI half of the time. He needs to human it up, a bit


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## Rook (Jan 13, 2012)

Lol, randomise his velocities a bit

On Topic: I'm glad he's thinking about the angled pickup thing, It was something I'd definitely thought of with regards to my order because I think his 8's have quite a broad fan. Combine that with a longer scale, chunky 8th string and a pickup to far from the bridge and you get a pretty fluffy bridge pickup sound...

If DiMarzio did a blade DA8 that'd be sweet, it wouldn't need skewing then it could just go in on an angle.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 13, 2012)

Just an update for those interested in MIDI / tremolos, I got an email back from Ola. (I think this should be allowed to post, as its basically the exact same info on his Price list for guitars) 

A Tremolo and Piezo saddles in it is the same as if you were to order it on a full guitar; so roughly ~$1050 for 7 string. Then you add the Graphtech preamp/etc ontop. Pretty good price considering you get the headless adapter with the tremolo, all you need after that is pickups and the neck/body. Do like that other guy did (forget his name, sorry) - buy a Soulmates neck and make your own body, and you have a sweet ass headless 7 with piezo for under $1800. (maybe $2000 after shipping)

Still deciding myself if Headless is what I want, or if its just the aftermath of the latest Carvin HH1 gas that is getting the better of me (yet wanting 7string obviously) - but clearly strandberg gives the best hardware and prices for the headless game right now.


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## Justin Bailey (Jan 13, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Looks pretty awesome!!!! I noticed the neck was an odd shape in his demo video:
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably very good for playing live. I'd never get one though since necks are probably the only part of a guitar that don't bother me unless their unfinished or dirty.




That's a different style neck


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## jarnozz (Jan 13, 2012)

i always hated the looks of those strandberg guitars but now i begin to understand and feel for ergonomic designed guitars. would love to try one out once


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## JamesM (Jan 13, 2012)

Blasphemer said:


> This is kind of off topic, but does anybody else think that this dude is just TOO accurate? His playing sounds like MIDI half of the time. He needs to human it up, a bit



It kind of has the sound of something that has been time stretched/compressed... 

Not that I'm saying anything...


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## JaeSwift (Jan 13, 2012)

The Armada said:


> It kind of has the sound of something that has been time stretched/compressed...
> 
> Not that I'm saying anything...



At the start of the vid you can hear the input jack sound (ambient amp buzz) which isn't stretched at all so I highly doubt it. I really don't doubt for a second that he is just a ridiculously accurate player.

I plan on taking a lesson from him @ Bandhappy soon so I'll report back.


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## JamesM (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm not trying to take this much further, but have you ever used a DAW? You can split audio files as easy as anything else. The input noise is evidence of nothing.

Still, I'm accusing of nothing.


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## sojorel (Jan 13, 2012)

The tremolo pick at 1.20 is very tight.

How does the EGS shape compare to a Delta wing like the GKG Turbulence?

Also, with the contour on the neck, isn't it going to be difficult to play the lower strings around 12th fret and so forth? Or will it be just like any other neck at that region?


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## rippedflesh89 (Jan 14, 2012)

goddamn... i think i found my first custom build... that neck looks incredible


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## Fred the Shred (Jan 14, 2012)

sojorel said:


> The tremolo pick at 1.20 is very tight.
> 
> How does the EGS shape compare to a Delta wing like the GKG Turbulence?
> 
> Also, with the contour on the neck, isn't it going to be difficult to play the lower strings around 12th fret and so forth? Or will it be just like any other neck at that region?



Owning both, it's more balanced when used on the right leg, whereas left leg position is comparable. The EGS is slightly easier to adjust when standing up, but they are both quite comfy. The edge of the EGS is the diversity of ways you can use it while having it hug the body with no annoying protrusions, and it is the "winner" here, but I can't fault the Turbulence at all - all 3 of those I own serve me very well.


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## Augury (Jan 14, 2012)

i bet tosin abasi will get some strandbergs with this neck lol


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## MF_Kitten (Jan 15, 2012)

Tosin already has one with the Rick Toone neck shape


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## Malkav (Jan 16, 2012)

Should we maybe not make this thread a sticky and post all .Strandberg* related discussions here? It would be nice to be able to see new ideas and feedback etc in one place


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## TheOddGoat (Nov 18, 2012)

Blasphemer said:


> This is kind of off topic, but does anybody else think that this dude is just TOO accurate? His playing sounds like MIDI half of the time. He needs to human it up, a bit



I got the HAARP machine's album and didn't like it much, so I'm looking for peoples' thoughts on it that might help me appreciate it more (actually how I bumped into this thread!)

But apparently it may not have even been a Strandberg it was recorded with:

"The Strandberg Guitarworks video is a commercial. I have never claimed it was a live play through nor have I denied any studio practice. The question was never asked for the alleged denial to occur. The dry truth is we simply did not have the means to record live within the set timeframe. "

I'm actually enjoying the album a bit more looking at it as electronica rather than metal. Maybe that makes me crazy .



But on to the topic of the thread:

In terms of licensing, if I were to make a neck like this for myself to mess around with, would I need to pay? Or is it just if it's to be sold for profit?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 18, 2012)

Just add Ola on facebook and message him. When I was setting up the ECG .Strandberg* copy run thing Ola just had ECG pay him a small and very reasonable fee for each neck that used the profile. He let ECG use the body design free of charge.

The license also came with some diagrams or something iirc to make it easier to build.


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## technomancer (Nov 18, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Just add Ola on facebook and message him. When I was setting up the ECG .Strandberg* copy run thing Ola just had ECG pay him a small and very reasonable fee for each neck that used the profile. He let ECG use the body design free of charge.
> 
> The license also came with some diagrams or something iirc to make it easier to build.



Just a note the body design was released under an open license so it's free for everybody to use.

The original design is here IIRC

http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/downloads/


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