# How to start a website...?



## The Dark Wolf (Oct 5, 2005)

Ok, those in the know. My band will need a website in the near future. What's the best way to start a website? Hosting, design, etc. Especillay Vince and/or Chris, since you guys have 2 very cool websites. How does a bruva get started?


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## Leon (Oct 5, 2005)

1) buy webspace ( got mine from http://www.aplushosting.com/ )
2) buy domain name ( got mine from http://www.domainsnext.com/ )
3) design cool website

for my webspace, i pay about $7 a month, and for the domain, $12 a year.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 5, 2005)

Leon said:


> 1) buy webspace ( got mine from http://www.aplushosting.com/ )
> 2) buy domain name ( got mine from http://www.domainsnext.com/ )
> 3) design cool website
> 
> for my webspace, i pay about $7 a month, and for the domain, $12 a year.


Thanks Leon (although I need way more info than this).

BECAUSE... #3. Uh... ok? Design a cool website. With what? How? (Hence, why I'm asking  )


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## Leon (Oct 6, 2005)

well, i guess that takes time to develop 

i started using Microsoft's Frontpage2000 a number of years ago, and sorta progressed with designing pages and things. it's an easy program to start out on, as it very much looks like MSWord or whatever. there's also a program called Dreamweaver that works too, i hear.

or, you could have someone else design it for you


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

Anyone else?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2005)

Get a Demo version of Dream Weaver. Killer program. Makes webpages in a wordprocessor format. If you're not the most familiar with webpages, this makes it a bit easier.


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## Jeff (Oct 6, 2005)

Definitely Dreamweaver. I've been using it for years now, and it's quite powerful, while at the same time being pretty straightforward to use.


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

I'm in the same boat here too, needing a website... I sorta figure if I'm going to do a proper CD, something a little more than a myspace page would be a good thing to have, and anyway a reliable source of hosting for myself would rock. Leon, how much storage space and monthly bandwidth does that $7 buy you? That's fairly reasonable...

-D


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## Chris (Oct 6, 2005)

The hell with dreamweaver. Learn some HTML, it's a piece of cake and once you get into it, you'll find that making edits with something you coded yourself is a lot easier than editing pages made with Dreamweaver/Frontpage, etc.

As far as hosting, I use http://www.1and1.com for all the sites I run/host (nine, currently) and they've been excellent all across the board.


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## Jeff (Oct 6, 2005)

Chris said:


> The hell with dreamweaver. Learn some HTML, it's a piece of cake and once you get into it, you'll find that making edits with something you coded yourself is a lot easier than editing pages made with Dreamweaver/Frontpage, etc.
> 
> As far as hosting, I use http://www.1and1.com for all the sites I run/host (nine, currently) and they've been excellent all across the board.



I use 1and1.com as well. I sorta agree with you on the dreamweaver thing. All too often it's a crutch for not really learning your way around code.

But when coupled with html knowledge, and using the split view in DW, it really speeds things up and makes things more efficient, IMO.


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

Ok, you guys who know what you're doing... 1,000MB is probably more than enough for a website, but for monthly transfer limits, for a "artist" website with some pictures, mp3 clips, and a full song download or two, is 25GB probably enough to cover me, or is the extra $5 worth it for 50 and another gig, give or take, of storage?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2005)

Well, back when i did this stuff, i did that shit in notepad , like a real man. But then i got lazy. so out came dreamweaver lol


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## Leon (Oct 6, 2005)

HateBreeder said:


> Well, back when i did this stuff, i did that shit in notepad , like a real man. But then i got lazy. so out came dreamweaver lol


i started out using Frontpage solely. these days, i use Frontpage for some stuff, but mostly edit the HTML by hand to get what i want. i could probably do it all by hand as well if i really tried, but that would take up precious guitar playing / SS.org posting time


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## darren (Oct 6, 2005)

I prefer to hand-code, but i'm old-skool. 

HTML knowledge is good to have, but the software applications are just _production tools_. People tend to forget that you also need to know how to _design_ the site. Dreamweaver is a layout tool, Photoshop is an image editing tool, etc... the tools don't make you a designer. 

Designing a Web site isn't about knowing how to use the tools or how to code stuff, or even how to make things look pretty. You need to know some basic principles of interaction design and understanding of the principles of graphic design as well. 

These principles will help you to communicate more clearly in a visual medium, produce something that's more pleasing to the eye, and in the case of interaction design, help you to design information architecture and navigation that people can actually use and find their way around in.


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## Leon (Oct 6, 2005)

good call, Darren!

i actually design my webpages with pencil and paper before i hit my computer. though, that doesn't presuppose that they will be any good


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## Chris (Oct 6, 2005)

Drew said:


> Ok, you guys who know what you're doing... 1,000MB is probably more than enough for a website, but for monthly transfer limits, for a "artist" website with some pictures, mp3 clips, and a full song download or two, is 25GB probably enough to cover me, or is the extra $5 worth it for 50 and another gig, give or take, of storage?



25GB is just fine, as is 1GB of space. Way more then enough.

http://www.club3g.com does 18 million hits a month and I only do 75GB/mo over there.


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

Leon said:


> good call, Darren!
> 
> i actually design my webpages with pencil and paper before i hit my computer. though, that doesn't presuppose that they will be any good




That's actually really good advice, Leon, and a really good point, Darren.  Reputation points to you both.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

So say, I go to 1and1.com or some such, after designing a nifty website in Dreamweaver or FrontPage (Chris, c'mon. Like I'm gonna try to learn HTML from scratch right now. We don't need a dick swingin' contest. A wimpy, girly software app is just fine for me  )... what do I do when I get there? There's all kinds of options. What do I need? And wat's this it says about Linux? I don't use Linux... is that an issue?


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

There's also a MS package, for windows. I'll be looking into that tonight and probably picking one up - expect to see drewpeterson.net in the near future (as some out of work software engineer already has .com  )


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

Drew, you're awesome. So, I guess that would be better to go with, as a Microsoft user?


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## darren (Oct 6, 2005)

It really doesn't matter what platform you have hosting your Web site until you start getting into advanced scripting and stuff. If you're not using ASP, .net or Front Page Extensions, you don't need to have the site hosted on a MS machine. I prefer having my sites hosted on Linux servers (or some other form of Unix) because i feel Unix is inherently more stable and secure, and there are tons of free/open source apps out there.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

darren said:


> It really doesn't matter what platform you have hosting your Web site until you start getting into advanced scripting and stuff. If you're not using ASP, .net or Front Page Extensions, you don't need to have the site hosted on a MS machine. I prefer having my sites hosted on Linux servers (or some other form of Unix) because i feel Unix is inherently more stable and secure, and there are tons of free/open source apps out there.


See, that's all Greek to me. So Linux or MS doesn't matter? Why the two different platforms, then? And remember.. you're talking to a website-development functional illiterate  (I know a few things about computers, but I'm an absolute n00b to this stuff)


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## darren (Oct 6, 2005)

There are different platforms for the reasons i outlined above. MS and Linux servers each have different capabilities on the back end of things. If you don't know what ASP, .net or Front Page Extensions are, my recommendation would be to go with a Linux host. If you don't _need_ Microsoft, don't use 'em.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

darren said:


> It really doesn't matter what platform you have hosting your Web site until you start getting into advanced scripting and stuff. If you're not using ASP, .net or Front Page Extensions, you don't need to have the site hosted on a MS machine. I prefer having my sites hosted on Linux servers (or some other form of Unix) because i feel Unix is inherently more stable and secure, and there are tons of free/open source apps out there.


Um... this doesn't tell me what the _reasons_ for the different platforms are, Darren.


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2005)

Just get the one that holds the webpages ;p


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

HateBreeder said:


> Just get the one that holds the webpages ;p


  Huh? "It puts the lotion on its skin."  Dude, what does what you said mean?


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## darren (Oct 6, 2005)

The reasons for different Web hosting platforms are the same reasons we have Windows, Mac OS and Linux (among others) on the desktop. Competition is good. Different programmers have different preferences for programming languages and platforms. Some specialize in ASP and .net development, so they're committed to Microsoft solutions, whereas others are more interested in open platforms and develop in Java, PHP, etc., so they prefer Linux or some other flavour of Unix.

The Web originated on Unix. Apache on Linux is pretty much the "standard" platform. Microsoft only joined the fray in the late '90s.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

darren said:


> The reasons for different Web hosting platforms are the same reasons we have Windows, Mac OS and Linux (among others) on the desktop. Competition is good. Different programmers have different preferences for programming languages and platforms. Some specialize in ASP and .net development, so they're committed to Microsoft solutions, whereas others are more interested in open platforms and develop in Java, PHP, etc., so they prefer Linux or some other flavour of Unix.
> 
> The Web originated on Unix. Apache on Linux is pretty much the "standard" platform. Microsoft only joined the fray in the late '90s.


Ah, ok. Thanks Darren! That makes alot of sense. See, I didn't know these asp and .net things at all, (remember- n00b here) and that they are MS uh.. things? What are they, applications? A language? Whatever. So, I'm ignorant.

But, back to the topic... I guess I should...
1. Use FrontPage or Dreamweaver, and design a site (or attempt to), 
2. Register the domain, and 
3. Sign up to a host. 
That sound about right? What am I missing? How to I get my website on to the host?


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## Chris D (Oct 6, 2005)

You'll have made your site in, say Dreamweaver, right?

It will be a nice tidy file structure, with all your html files, image folders etc ready for you to just upload it to your webspace using Dreamweaver's ftp, or some other ftp program.

As for the server issue, I guess it depends on which provider you go for. I don't know much about that kinda thin, but my webspace is on an Apache server & I've had no problems at all.

Good luck with your site!


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

So, if I'm running a Windows platform, is there any reason I'd want to look into Unix/Linux? I mean, do you have to use the same platform as your operating system? This is all pretty new to me...

-D


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## Chris (Oct 6, 2005)

Drew said:


> So, if I'm running a Windows platform, is there any reason I'd want to look into Unix/Linux? I mean, do you have to use the same platform as your operating system? This is all pretty new to me...
> 
> -D



No, you don't. You don't care what platform it's on.


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## Chris (Oct 6, 2005)

This is fine for the majority of personal pages.

It's less hassle if you buy the webspace and the domain at the same time, so that the host doing your DNS is also hosting your files. One-stop-shopping.


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## Drew (Oct 6, 2005)

Chris, you rock.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 6, 2005)

Awesome!


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## Leon (Oct 6, 2005)

Chris said:


> This is fine for the majority of personal pages.
> 
> It's less hassle if you buy the webspace and the domain at the same time, so that the host doing your DNS is also hosting your files. One-stop-shopping.


holy shit!

Chris, i *think* that plan is very much better than what i have right now...
http://www.aplushosting.com/english/products-special.phtml
(A+ Personal)

is it?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 6, 2005)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Huh? "It puts the lotion on its skin."  Dude, what does what you said mean?


I'm saying just get a host. If you're not gonna do any flashy flashy stuff, it doesnt really matter.


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## Leon (Oct 6, 2005)

darren said:


> If you don't _need_ Microsoft, don't use 'em.


amen!


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## Vegetta (Oct 7, 2005)

Chris said:


> The hell with dreamweaver. Learn some HTML, it's a piece of cake and once you get into it, you'll find that making edits with something you coded yourself is a lot easier than editing pages made with Dreamweaver/Frontpage, etc.




Chris yes you should learn HTML tags but don't dismiss Dreamweaver It can really simplfy things Plus it comes with several templates . Simply change the text, and a few images and play with the color PRESTO website... 

Dreamweaver 8 rocks Full .css support Awesome wysiwig

Frontpage is IMO Garbage it adds way too many spurious tags and files (I recently had the displeasure of redesigning a front page created site that had over 1000 files I pared that down to 35 )

That being said the best/easiest way to learn html is with a nice book 
I learned form this book - way back in the day but it is one of the best HTML books out IMO
Book 

Viewing the source code of pages is another good way to learn code

Photoshop is one of the best web building tools 
Create your page layout 
Slice the design 
Save for web - Automatically create tables (or .css) layout 

http://www.w3schools.com/ is a good source of all things web (code wise)


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## Leon (Oct 7, 2005)

Vegetta said:


> Viewing the source code of pages is another good way to learn code


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## Chris (Oct 7, 2005)

Leon said:


> holy shit!
> 
> Chris, i *think* that plan is very much better than what i have right now...
> http://www.aplushosting.com/english/products-special.phtml
> ...



It is, in my opinion. They're 'packaging' a lot of shit that's just common webserver featuring.



> Administration/setup fee $10



$10 for setup - most good ISPs will waive this. It literally takes about 5 minutes of work.
Account Features 



> Webspace allowed (powered by RAID5/10): 300



First, "RAID 10" is actually Raid 1+0. While that's good, anyone selling server space should have fault tolerant rack shit anyhow. And 300MB? That's a pile of crap. 

Here is 2000MB for $10/mo 
Data transfer limit (per month)



> Each GB (gigabyte) is enough for hundreds of thousands of hits per month! 10GBs



Same site above, 50GB instead of 10. 



> There is a one-time $15 set up fee per extra domain



Again, wtf?



> We don't put ads or banners on your site!



Hooray, that's why people go with hosting instead of using Geocities.




> Real Audio/Video, Quicktime, MPEG, Media Player and others (all via HTTP streaming)



Big deal. If you host a file anywhere you can stream it 99% of the time.



> Support for Shockwave, Flash and other Macromedia formats
> Support for MIDI, IPIX, Fractal images, PNG images, VRML, and more
> Support for hundreds of file formats



Hundreds of file formats! Oh, and all these other file formats! Again, that's just fluff. You can host a .fuckyourself file on your website if you want, on any webspace. The "supported" stuff they should be listing are things like PHP, CGI and SQL apps.



> Real-time statistics







> Anonymous FTP server access 24/7



 So you can anonymously FTP to your box? Why the fuck would you want to do that? And 24/7? As opposed to the webhosting that only has your site up during normal business hours?


Drop that host dude, they suck.


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## Leon (Oct 7, 2005)

woot. thanks!



Chris said:


> The "supported" stuff they should be listing are things like PHP, CGI and SQL apps.


they don't, with the plan i have.

hmm, seems i'll be switching! now, since i have my domain with domainsnext.com, can i get them to transfer the whatchamacallit to 1and1.com?


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## Chris (Oct 8, 2005)

I'd call 1and1 and basically play dumb.  Make 'em do it all for ya.


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## Drew (Oct 8, 2005)

*vaguely related tangent*

Yaaaaaay, I now have www.drewpeterson.org. There's not a god damned thing there, but there will be soon, lol. Yaaay!

*dances the dance of happiness*

*we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming*


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