# Trap Bar Power!



## G0DLESSENDEAVOR (Mar 12, 2009)

I've being into weightlifting since I could lift my mom's dumbells Recently I had a gym membership and loved the advice I got from other lifters and they were pretty supportive...even in the most embarassing moments I had there. I picked up Arnolds Dictionary of weightlifting and tried alot of exercises from that. My biggest interest has to be powerlifting, especially with a trapbar. It gives the lifter an overall safer and better lift which means better results. But, I ran into this video and gained some scepticism.


And this has to be the worst posture you can do with deadlifting! I had to show this one!


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 12, 2009)

Powerlifting is a sport- not an exercise. Therefore, what you said, grammatically, didn't make sense.



The second guy's form wasn't near as bad as you make it out to be. He kept his back arched (not humped) through the entire lift. He just didn't use his legs as much as he should have (I suspect this was in part because of not using a standard bar). It was almost a stiff-legged DL, which is pretty impressive at 500+lbs.


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## jymellis (Mar 12, 2009)

G0DLESSENDEAVOR said:


> I've being into weightlifting since I could lift my mom's dumbells Recently


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## B Lopez (Mar 12, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> The second guy's form wasn't near as bad as you make it out to be. He kept his back arched (not humped) through the entire lift. He just didn't use his legs as much as he should have (I suspect this was in part because of not using a standard bar). It was almost a stiff-legged DL, which is pretty impressive at 500+lbs.



His head is wrenched back way to far. Should be in a neutral position the whole lift.

PS, I fucking hate trap bars fwiw.


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## G0DLESSENDEAVOR (Mar 15, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> Powerlifting is a sport- not an exercise. Therefore, what you said, grammatically, didn't make sense.


"After reading Arnolds Dictionary of weightlifting, I enjoyed the exercises but was drawn to his introduction to powerlifting in the book. Never did he bring up the trapbar as that is my main focus here today as a novice powerlifter." Better? 
I watched it again and your right, the athlete shown did a stiff legged dead lift.



jymellis said:


>


 
Ha, you got me. That's twice now in one post. It's like I have to follow some secret grammar posting rules! Come on, unless this forum is full of english teacher's it shouldn't matter. 
I placed all the comma's in the correct places.



B Lopez said:


> His head is wrenched back way to far. Should be in a neutral position the whole lift.
> 
> PS, I fucking hate trap bars fwiw.



Wouldn't you agree that trap bars are more safer and better for novice lifters? As a begginner, with a trapbar I can work on technique before lifting a 7ft. straight bar. Why do you hate trapbars with such passion?lol


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## B Lopez (Mar 15, 2009)

G0DLESSENDEAVOR said:


> Wouldn't you agree that trap bars are more safer and better for novice lifters? As a begginner, with a trapbar I can work on technique before lifting a 7ft. straight bar. Why do you hate trapbars with such passion?lol



I'm not a trap bar expert and I won't claim to be one, but if the lifter has to dump the weight, he's trapped inside the bar with all that weight. Also in that video you posted the bar breaks, if that guy was in that position doing deadlifts rather than rack pulls, it would have been a disaster.

As a beginner I would give you a PVC pipe or a 4' (15-25lb) training barbell to work on technique. If you don't have the technique pretty solid you shouldn't have a whole lot of weight on the bar. 

Plus you can't clean and jerk or snatch a trap bar.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 15, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> I'm not a trap bar expert and I won't claim to be one, but if the lifter has to dump the weight, he's trapped inside the bar with all that weight. Also in that video you posted the bar breaks, if that guy was in that position doing deadlifts rather than rack pulls, it would have been a disaster.
> 
> As a beginner I would give you a PVC pipe or a 4' (15-25lb) training barbell to work on technique. If you don't have the technique pretty solid you shouldn't have a whole lot of weight on the bar.
> 
> Plus you can't clean and jerk or snatch a trap bar.




PVC Pipe??? If he can't lift a 45 lb bar off the ground with good form then he needs to enter a retirement community immediately. 

Unfortunately it looks like I'm going to start having to use a trap bar (for traps) because my gym has: 1) A shitty smith-machine (doesn't function like a normal one; slides up at an angle?!?) 2) DB's that only go to 120.
I'm use to doing behind the back shrugs on a smith with 385-405 and I just don't have the hand-strength or dry hands to do that on a bar (plus the bars have virtually no grip so I can't use straps)


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## B Lopez (Mar 15, 2009)

Yes a PVC pipe is a great technique training tool. And of course I would put on weight once you get to work sets. 

A smith machine is nothing more than a glorified towel rack. 

Make sure your straps match your purse.


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## Tiger (Mar 15, 2009)

Haha, weight lifting.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 15, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> Yes a PVC pipe is a great technique training tool. And of course I would put on weight once you get to work sets.
> 
> A smith machine is nothing more than a glorified towel rack.
> 
> Make sure your straps match your purse.




AHAHAHAHAHAH!!
LOL- shows what a novice and ignorant lifter you are. You mock straps (and clearly don't know what they're used for and how beneficial they are)..and then recommend someone lift PVC pipe in the same post?!? Oh god, I am dying here....my girlfriend can probably outlift you...I mean, unless you've REALLY been hitting the pipe hard. L O L.

Here's Jay Cutler using straps @ 1:34 and 2:06....although I can't confirm whether or not they match his purse.



Here's Branch Warren being a vagina and using straps as well as wrist support:




And here's Ronnie Coleman, the biggest pussy of them all, using straps at 0:45



Pff, straps for what, 495? Hope they match his purse. What does he know about lifting anyway? Former power-lifter turned 8-TIME MR.OLYMPIA. 




Seriously though, you're a moron- and destined to have small lats and traps the rest of your life. Enjoy.


EDIT: Just saw your pic- you've got some sweet titties and some rockin' fatceps! GJDM!!


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## Tiger (Mar 15, 2009)

Im not totally sure why you feel the need to shit all over another member who is offering his opinion, but this isnt a dick slapping contest. 

Bobby has a good history of providing helpful info to users in this forum, maybe take a page from his book before pissing all over the thread. I realize he sort of started it, but name calling is for small dicked jocks who have something to pro- oh wait never mind.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 15, 2009)

Tiger said:


> I realize he sort of started it







Tiger said:


> name calling is for small dicked jocks who have something to pro- oh wait never mind.



Agh, You caught me! Wait, doesn't that statement contradict itsel....nevermind.


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## B Lopez (Mar 15, 2009)

Tell me/us why straps are beneficial, please.


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## DDDorian (Mar 16, 2009)

Girth, you can knock that shit off right now. Change your av to something work-safe while you're at it.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 16, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> Tell me/us why straps are beneficial, please.



Straps are beneficial because your hands give out long before your back/tris/bis give out. i.e. you can lift more weight for more reps because it aids your grip. It's tantamount to using gloves, a belt, a chain belt, knee straps, or even a bench shirt. 
Has nothing to do with cosmetics. It's not like the maxi-pad you see most people squat with because the bar "hurts [their] shoulders".



DDDorian said:


> Girth, you can knock that shit off right now. Change your av to something work-safe while you're at it.




Re:


Tiger said:


> I realize he sort of started it


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## DDDorian (Mar 16, 2009)

How old are you exactly? "He started it"? Really? If you honestly can't make a distinction between ribbing someone about a handbag and calling them a fat moron then you need to lurk until you do. There's a line and you crossed it. If you think he's giving misinformation then I'm sure you can find a more constructive way to argue than "LOL U FAT". Comprende?

Also, because you didn't change your av I took the liberty of doing it for you.


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## G0DLESSENDEAVOR (Mar 16, 2009)

I wouldnt use straps at all. I tried them but I prefer to use my gripping muscles in any lift. That is more benificial to any lifter, especially a novice. What about a belt? I've seen bigger guys than me overuse it. They used it on every machine throughout most of there workout. What do they get out of it? A weaker back! There are so many shortcuts in everything, but in the end we are just cheating ourselves.


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## Tiger (Mar 16, 2009)

Im definitely no weight lifter (Im the guy who runs 8 miles ahead of the weight lifters, haha) but wouldnt you want to work your grip and forearms, which it sounds like these straps kinda baby? One of the few times I use weights is to isolate my forearms because its hard to hit those well with regular PT.


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## B Lopez (Mar 16, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> Straps are beneficial because your hands give out long before your back/tris/bis give out. i.e. you can lift more weight for more reps because it aids your grip. It's tantamount to using gloves, a belt, a chain belt, knee straps, or even a bench shirt.
> Has nothing to do with cosmetics. It's not like the maxi-pad you see most people squat with because the bar "hurts [their] shoulders".



Straps are detrimental because they inhibit strength gains in your grip. That is why you lift, right, for strength?


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 16, 2009)

G0DLESSENDEAVOR said:


> I wouldnt use straps at all. I tried them but I prefer to use my gripping muscles in any lift. That is more benificial to any lifter, especially a novice. What about a belt? I've seen bigger guys than me overuse it. They used it on every machine throughout most of there workout. What do they get out of it? A weaker back! There are so many shortcuts in everything, but in the end we are just cheating ourselves.





Tiger said:


> Im definitely no weight lifter (Im the guy who runs 8 miles ahead of the weight lifters, haha) but wouldnt you want to work your grip and forearms, which it sounds like these straps kinda baby? One of the few times I use weights is to isolate my forearms because its hard to hit those well with regular PT.






B Lopez said:


> Straps are detrimental because they inhibit strength gains in your grip. That is why you lift, right, for strength?




No.

First of all- you don't use straps for EVERY set of everything you do. Just like you don't use a belt for all of your sets (because it will weaken your back.) I'm not sure how one would ever use a belt on a machine...but ok. 
One thing you'll notice in those videos is that they all do use belts/straps etc. but only for their biggest sets. 
For example, right now my back routine starts off with lat pull down (close grip)- 4 sets. I add 15lbs (one plate) per set, and keep the reps between 8-10. I'll use straps for the last two sets.
Then I use a plate loaded "behind the neck lat pulldown" for 3-4 sets using straps only for the last set.
Barbell rows- 4 sets, NO straps.
Cable rows- 4 sets, straps for the last two
DB rows- 3 sets, NO straps.

I work traps on shoulder day. I only do 4 sets of shrugs for traps. Use straps for 3 of the 4.

I work my forearms/"grip" separately on bis/tris day. I didn't do any work on my forearms for about a year and a half because they were still proportional to my arms. I've only lately been adding in 4 sets of zogby curls at the end working bis.
Which is why I felt (and still feel) comfortable using straps as often as I do. Starting out- I probably wouldn't use them more than once per exercise. You have to realize that your grip/forearms are still getting worked out when doing other lifts- like bench and just about anything with DB's. You're not completely neglecting forearms.
Without a doubt- my two biggest and strongest upper-body muscle groups (proportional to size and other lifts) are my back and traps. This is because of straps.


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## B Lopez (Mar 16, 2009)

So you don't lift for strength? For athleticism? Beach muscles? What?

"zogby curls" ??? Explain.

I can't take someone seriously who says their back/traps are strongest because of straps.

Honestly if you can't pull the weight without straps, you have no business with it. Utilize the hook grip.


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## budda (Mar 16, 2009)

this thread made me a sad panda.

I'm just glad that I see benefits from going to the gym


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 17, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> So you don't lift for strength? For athleticism? Beach muscles? What?
> 
> "zogby curls" ??? Explain.
> 
> ...




So you still don't understand the benefits of using straps and why all serious bodybuilders and powerlifters use them ...and you have the audacity to claim to not take me seriously? LOL- Ok.
Common sense should tell you if you do lat pull downs with 180 for 10 reps for 4 sets....your lats won't be as big as they would if you used 195 for 10 reps. Straps= more weight. I cannot make it any more simple than that.
Your "no business with that much weight" speaks volumes about your training.

Again...find a serious power-lifter and I guarantee not only that he uses straps, but also that you would never call him a pussy/comment on his "purse straps" to his face. Those guys tend to be way more hardcore than bodybuilders and know an infinite amount more about lifting than you do.



For the record- I meant zottman curls. I was reading a story at the same time of the post that referenced a zogby poll and my brain took a shit. I actually havn't done those in awhile either, but rather stick with behind the back wrist curls.


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## budda (Mar 17, 2009)

Girth, you're missing the point where Bobby said that the reason not to use straps is to work on your gripping muscles.

It's great that you can lift a lot of weight with the aid of straps, but if you took away the straps, how much could you really lift? I'm fairly sure that's what Bobby is talking about.

The man knows a fair bit about training, so for you to say he clearly doesn't know what he's talkign about is a whole lotta BS.

"Find a serious power-lifter and he'll be more hardcore than bodybuilders" - so what about serious bodybuilders?


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## Tiger (Mar 17, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> So you still don't understand the benefits of using straps and why all serious bodybuilders and powerlifters use them ...and you have the audacity to claim to not take me seriously? LOL- Ok.
> Common sense should tell you if you do lat pull downs with 180 for 10 reps for 4 sets....your lats won't be as big as they would if you used 195 for 10 reps. Straps= more weight. I cannot make it any more simple than that.
> Your "no business with that much weight" speaks volumes about your training.



Im trying to understand as I know very little about the subject. Are you saying the straps let you work parts of your body with more weight and emphasis than your normal forearm strength would allow? So that youre not 'limited' to what they can bear?


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## jymellis (Mar 17, 2009)

wow, this thread went from somewhat informative to ultimate-guitar to a pissing contest? i have a few things to add as a boxer of almost 8 years and a hockey player of 9 years. there are ALOT of different ways to train, lift, exercise. there is NO 1 perfect way. i did stregth training which is WAYY different than body building or power lifting. and as for the use of straps. i dont care who you are, with the weight those men are picking up HANDS dont get strong enough to hold! they want to work another set of muscles that can hold more but are limited by how strong a grip can be. straps are a legitimate TOOL for lifting. maybe not the lifting i did or someone else did, but your not gonna lift that weight unless it is attached to you. and for the record i did use straps during training for iso-lat pull downs. when you weigh 150 and cun pull down 200+ you strap your wrist to the bars and your ass to the seat  can we pleae stop the name calling and the onesidedness of the arguements and give some informative advise to people who may want to lift or take up lifting? this conversation so far would seriously turn almost anyone away from the idea. lets get back to


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## Tiger (Mar 17, 2009)

^ late x 10


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## jymellis (Mar 17, 2009)

Tiger said:


> ^ late x 10


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## B Lopez (Mar 17, 2009)

Yes I understand straps, I still have some, but do not use them. (And they match )

But straps are illegal in a power lifting competition, why use them when you train? Are you going to wear straps to move furniture? Will you strap up to pull your buddy to safety?

The point is yeah, straps help you in the gym, just don't expect that strength to carry over to be functional in whatever scenario life gives you.

And you have no clue about my training, don't be so quick to scoff it.


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## Tiger (Mar 17, 2009)

Thats definitely a topic there, I dont always 'get' weight lifters because really, if they werent lifting weights at the gym they would never have to lift anything.

Ive made a lot of friends at the gym the past 6 months, and these guys are huge and all, but I'd feel real bad for them if I took them out running or swimming for anything over two miles.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 17, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> But straps are illegal in a power lifting competition, why use them when you train? Are you going to wear straps to move furniture? Will you strap up to pull your buddy to safety?
> 
> The point is yeah, straps help you in the gym, just don't expect that strength to carry over to be functional in whatever scenario life gives you.
> 
> And you have no clue about my training, don't be so quick to scoff it.



God, either you just don't get it, or you refuse to admit that you're wrong. "When will you use straps in real life?" That's such a moot point. Again, if straps help you lift more weight in the gym, you will develop more muscle (than you would otherwise). So if anything, using straps in the gym to move more weight, will help you 'pull your buddy to safety' easier than if you'd never trained with them. It is functional. Use straps for deadlifts to help strengthen your lower back and legs....then go pick your drunk friend up off the floor and throw him in your car. It's very functional.
If you don't want to use straps, then fine don't. What would I care.
Don't use gloves either- because chances are, you won't be wearing gloves when you have to "pull your buddy to safety"
Don't use a belt...cause again...
Don't wear shoes, cause really they're just cushioning your feet and in the real world your feet would be blistered and sore.

I do have a clue about your training. I looked at your myspace and you do crossfit  Seriously?



Tiger said:


> Thats definitely a topic there, I dont always 'get' weight lifters because really, if they werent lifting weights at the gym they would never have to lift anything.
> 
> Ive made a lot of friends at the gym the past 6 months, and these guys are huge and all, but I'd feel real bad for them if I took them out running or swimming for anything over two miles.




Wouldn't have to lift anything outside of a gym? Ok... that makes perfect sense.  I guess we're all just invertebrates. I'd certainly hate to see what would happen to one of these invertebrates if he showed up to a job interview for some type of manual labor and they asked him to lift something. Probably wouldn't be very good at sports either. Certainly wouldn't stand a chance in hell if he had to defend himself...you know, on account of not having a spine and all.

I don't think you'd feel bad for your friends, because honestly, there's a good chance they'd out-run you. Just because someone is big doesn't mean they don't do cardio. I was the biggest person on my Hockey team. *College hockey team. I have no problem running two miles.


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## B Lopez (Mar 17, 2009)

Sounds like all you care about is being bigger and stronger. Fine and dandy. When you want to learn how to put all that strength to use there will be a functional fitness program waiting.


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## budda (Mar 17, 2009)

girth, you need better examples if you're going to try and argue 

(the real world has shoes, and you can say no to various jobs working in manual labor if it puts you in danger - that's illegal if they make you do it)

this thread was towards being decent again too


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## Tiger (Mar 17, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> I don't think you'd feel bad for your friends, because honestly, there's a good chance they'd out-run you.



Nah, there definitely is not.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 18, 2009)

B Lopez said:


> Sounds like all you care about is being bigger and stronger. Fine and dandy. When you want to learn how to put all that strength to use there will be a functional fitness program waiting.



lol 



budda said:


> girth, you need better examples if you're going to try and argue
> 
> (the real world has shoes, and you can say no to various jobs working in manual labor if it puts you in danger - that's illegal if they make you do it)



Bro, I've read your threads about how you JUST started going to a gym and getting in _better_ shape- so keep that in perspective when responding to someone who knows a lot more about lifting than you do. And who was talking about manual labor that PUTS YOU IN DANGER? Please show me what could have possibly been contrived as life-threatening manual labor in my post. 
Manual labor is- manual labor. Typically requires lifting heavy shit...not that you would know.


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## budda (Mar 18, 2009)

you're talking about manual labour to the guy who's been a mover and worked 2 years at his local public works .

If you're asked to lift something too heavy, or take on any task you perceive as dangerous to your bodily well-being, you are allowed to refuse it. So your thing about lifting in the manual labour scenario - if you have to be jacked in order to lift X item, then chances are you should Not be lifting said item .

Yes, I did just start going to the gym. And I'm very thankful that no one I've met there is anything like you


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 19, 2009)

Don't worry Budda, it's probably the 'roid rage making him say that shit.


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## DDDorian (Mar 19, 2009)

Last warning, Girth. Drop the attitude.


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## Tiger (Mar 19, 2009)

^ May not be fair, its not like he isnt being egged on.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm just egging him on for being a dick to Budda, who didn't deserve it at all.


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## DDDorian (Mar 19, 2009)

Tiger said:


> ^ May not be fair, its not like he isnt being egged on.



Sure, but a big part of his argument seems to be "well I looked you up on the intertubes and you're a fat slob so I don't have to listen to you", which he's already been told not to do. There's arguing and there's being a condescening jerkoff, and I'm sure he knows the difference.


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## budda (Mar 19, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Don't worry Budda, it's probably the 'roid rage making him say that shit.


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## Girth Brooks (Mar 19, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Don't worry Budda, it's probably the 'roid rage making him say that shit.



Yep, cause we all know everyone who lifts weights is on steroids, and nobody ever gets pissed off when they offer advice to someone who knows less than they do, but the other person refuses to listen and lashes out with some inane argument in an attempt to save face.





DDDorian said:


> Sure, but a big part of his argument seems to be "well I looked you up on the intertubes and you're a fat slob so I don't have to listen to you", which he's already been told not to do. There's arguing and there's being a condescening jerkoff, and I'm sure he knows the difference.




So you're mad I called someone fat and don't want me to call anyone names, but then you turn around and call me a "condescending jerk-off"?  What did I miss?
Even with people backing me up- this is a one-way street bannable offense?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 20, 2009)

Girth Brooks said:


> Yep, cause we all know everyone who lifts weights is on steroids



I didn't say everyone.


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## eaeolian (Mar 20, 2009)

Girth, rule one here is don't argue with a mod, and for the record, you *are* coming off like a jerk. Enjoy a brief respite to think it over. The rest of you knock it off.


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## Jason (Mar 20, 2009)

eaeolian said:


> Girth, rule one here is don't argue with a mod, and for the record, you *are* coming off like a jerk. Enjoy a brief respite to think it over. The rest of you knock it off.



.. OK ok


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