# Celestion V30 vs. G12H30 vs. G12T75 vs. K100 Shootout!



## mightywarlock (Nov 26, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acguJjsgDg&feature=player_embedded


Found this on the Rivera website while checking things out about my new KR7 that I just got this week, and thought this was really good...
All my cabs have v30's, and I finally got rid of my G12t75 Marshall sometime last year, but This video has me thinking of maybe getting a cab with the K100 speakers in it...they just seem so clear and detailed to me...
But then again, I also liked the G12h30's as well...very vintage vibe to it...

Which do you like the best?

(this was added on 11/30/09)

I found yet another speaker comparison...

Check this one out as well!

http://www.kool-elfring.com/Pages/English/kool-elfring-mp3-eng.html#



EDIT:

Looks like Rivera did a more extensive test now as well, with 15 speakers!~

Check this link out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI&feature=channel


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## jsousa (Nov 26, 2009)

v30 and k100. 75s suck, and the h30 sounds like a not-so-great v30?


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## Bevo (Nov 26, 2009)

Cool way to do the review.

Glad to see I was right in ordering my V 30's, they will be perfect for my amp.


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## minusthemonkey (Nov 26, 2009)

K100 sounded like a cleaner, smoother, more defined V30. Not to say I don't like the V30s. Love 'em actually, but, man, those K100s sound awfully sweet.


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## yacker (Nov 26, 2009)

Hmm...I didn't really expect that type of difference, but I'm kinda thinking that a v30/k100 combo would sound good.


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## Werwolf999 (Nov 26, 2009)

I thought the k100s sounded the best out of the four, but bet they would sound even better mixed w/ another type in 4X4 cab.


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## Sepultorture (Nov 26, 2009)

i still like the V30 better. the k100 is an extremely close 2nd, the 70th anni speaker was ok, and the 75 was horrible


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## zimbloth (Nov 26, 2009)

I have all the Rivera cabs here, and I think the KR7 sounds best with the Mick Thompson cab which has the G12-K100s. By far the tightest, clearerst, punchiest, and has highs that are smooth, not harsh. The v30/gt75 cabs I let people compare them to here at the store sound good, but the K100 one is the clear cut winner every time.


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## robotsatemygma (Nov 27, 2009)

Question is... what speaker did they use to get the EQ setting to be used in this "shoot out"? Or did they just randomly do a quick EQ check before turning the amp on? 

No one knows. 

If you used a V30 to eq then it'll sound better then the other 3 being recorded. Each speaker has different frequencies being boosted and subdued. So an EQ is going to spotlight the qualities of the speaker and it's clones. So if they eq'ed on a K100, well, it's next similar "twin" will sound good as well. 

Don't get me wrong, this is a great idea but it should of been approached differently. But everything can be done differently. 

But without thinking, I like the V30 and K100. Man I wanna X pattern bad now!!!


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## petereanima (Nov 27, 2009)

robotsatemygma said:


> But without thinking, I like the V30 and K100. Man I wanna X pattern bad now!!!



having played over a Diezel fullstack - Herbert -> 412FL K100 -> 412FL V30 - i can assure you that this combination is full of win. and this is the content of my wet dreams. 

and maaaaan, those youtube-comments are as always so over the top retarted, it hurts reading. 

something needs to be said to the K100s - while when playing ALONE the V30s will propably sound better to most ears, the K100s really REALLY come to live in a band-context. thats what they are made for.


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## Brord (Nov 27, 2009)

petereanima said:


> something needs to be said to the K100s - while when playing ALONE the V30s will propably sound better to most ears, the K100s really REALLY come to live in a band-context. thats what they are made for.



What would you say the main difference is then between v30's and k100's in an individual setting and in a band setting? Since you think v30's wil sound better to most people when playing alone.

On a sidenote, does anybody have any experience with the Electrovoice EVM12L Black Label? The specs look good and I have heard people rave about it, but never had the chance to try 'em.
http://www.evm12lblacklabel.com/


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## petereanima (Nov 27, 2009)

Brord said:


> What would you say the main difference is then between v30's and k100's in an individual setting and in a band setting? Since you think v30's wil sound better to most people when playing alone.



the V30s are not as tight as the K100s and therefor provide a bit more bass and also more lowmids, which sounds cool when played alone. the K100s are just over the top balanced, i couldnt tell a single outstanding frequency, its just everything there, they are really tight, so i could for example turn in more bass and deep from my amp, which is something i LOVE, and it still stays USEFULL. also they have a VERY nice high-end which isnt as brittle/fizzy as the V30s, but much smoother, so you cut through the band sound without having that ear-piercing treblefest the V30s have when pushed.


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## mightywarlock (Nov 27, 2009)

ya know, I wish I never found this video. Now I am wanting one of these SEVEN Cabs, to go with my KR7 SEVEN Head.

Or maybe I can just buy 2 of the speakers and install them in one of my cabs...

But then Which cab do i pick apart? My Mesa Traditional 4x12, or the Recto 2x12? (only switch one speaker) or the Marshall Vintage 1960AV?

Or just buy the Rivera SEVEN!


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## budda (Nov 27, 2009)

I'd buy 2 and put 'em in the 412. the 212 should have black shadow C90's, which some find preferable for live use (but still prefer V30's in the studio).

that's my


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## TheRiverDragon (Nov 27, 2009)

petereanima said:


> the V30s are not as tight as the K100s and therefor provide a bit more bass and also more lowmids, which sounds cool when played alone. the K100s are just over the top balanced, i couldnt tell a single outstanding frequency, its just everything there, they are really tight, so i could for example turn in more bass and deep from my amp, which is something i LOVE, and it still stays USEFULL. also they have a VERY nice high-end which isnt as brittle/fizzy as the V30s, but much smoother, so you cut through the band sound without having that ear-piercing treblefest the V30s have when pushed.



I have to respectfully disagree here. The V30s have noticably less low-mids than the G12K-100s but more high-mids than those AND they have a lot of bass (or subbass), but for some reason it's tigher. This is my experience in the new Diezel 4x12 frontloaded design. So you can encounter "problems" with a very low-mid oriented amp (like e.g. Diezel Herbert, especially if you use it with 6550 powertubes). But for a Rivera this speakers are a very good choice (if not the best).


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## mightywarlock (Nov 27, 2009)

budda said:


> I'd buy 2 and put 'em in the 412. the 212 should have black shadow C90's, which some find preferable for live use (but still prefer V30's in the studio).
> 
> that's my



Actually, they are both V30's in the Recto 2x12


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## groph (Nov 27, 2009)

Man, I love the snarl of the Vintage 30. This is probably going to end up being my speaker of choice, I like it's midrange character the best. The color it adds to a guitar tone is almost a prerequisite to my liking said tone. The K100 was similar to me, but it was a little too smooth for my taste. The H30 had that weird top end that wouldn't really fit for what I'd be using it for, too vintagey. and the T75 was pretty good. Definitely had a pronouced scoop in the midrange, very different from the Vintage 30. If I had to rank them it'd be:

1. Vintage 30
2. T-75
3. K-100
4. H-30


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## TMM (Nov 27, 2009)

Brord said:


> On a sidenote, does anybody have any experience with the Electrovoice EVM12L Black Label? The specs look good and I have heard people rave about it, but never had the chance to try 'em.
> The Only Label Is Black: EVM12L BlackLabel



I just bought a pair for my oversized 212... should be in sometime next week, so I'll post a review. I've wanted to try them for a long time. I think so few people have heard / used them because they're so expensive ($280 a piece!), but I got an offer I couldn't refuse, and pulled the trigger.

I think it would have been interesting to hear Greenbacks and Eminence Super-Vs next to these 4 speakers. Those are currently my 2 favorites, for different reasons.

I also think it's tough to get a real impression of what these sound like when someone is playing classic rock licks through them, since that's almost as far away from what I'd use them for as it can get (country is the furthest).


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## mightywarlock (Nov 27, 2009)

So i got a bug in me to go to the store today to check out the K-tre and KR7 through a SEVEN Cab loaded with the Mick Thomson speakers (modified K100's??) and started off with the Marshall 1960AV sitting next to it, then to the SEVEN cab.

Yep. It does make quite a difference.

a HUGE difference.

Now it still sounds ok through the V30's, but with the SEVEN Cab everything opens up so much cleared, like taking a blanket off of the speakers, somehow seemed like more gain from the amp (switching to the Marshall was instantly more muddy, and cut back on gain).

I think I might want to order one of these cabs...

but I think I am going to have to sell something...I already have too much!


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## silentrage (Nov 27, 2009)

TMM said:


> I just bought a pair for my oversized 212... should be in sometime next week, so I'll post a review. I've wanted to try them for a long time. I think so few people have heard / used them because they're so expensive ($280 a piece!), but I got an offer I couldn't refuse, and pulled the trigger.
> 
> I think it would have been interesting to hear Greenbacks and Eminence Super-Vs next to these 4 speakers. Those are currently my 2 favorites, for different reasons.
> 
> I also think it's tough to get a real impression of what these sound like when someone is playing classic rock licks through them, since that's almost as far away from what I'd use them for as it can get (country is the furthest).



Looking forward to the review for EVM12L BLs. I have a EVM12L classic on the way, I'd be interested in your findings and how they differ from the classic 12.


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## Sepultorture (Nov 28, 2009)

silentrage said:


> Looking forward to the review for EVM12L BLs. I have a EVM12L classic on the way, I'd be interested in your findings and how they differ from the classic 12.



an EVM12L review would be sick, add some DM and we got a brutal party


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## trippled (Nov 28, 2009)

robotsatemygma said:


> Question is... what speaker did they use to get the EQ setting to be used in this "shoot out"? Or did they just randomly do a quick EQ check before turning the amp on?
> 
> No one knows.
> 
> ...



I think that tweaking the EQ to flat should pretty much give you an idea
of the difference between the speakers without giving any speaker an advantage.

Personally I only liked the V30's.


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## sami (Nov 29, 2009)

For the Rivera video, the V30 sounded best to me. It's rock, how can you not use a V30?

It'd be nice if Rivera did a high gain metal video with the same speakers.


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## mightywarlock (Dec 1, 2009)

Check it out...
Here's another speaker shootout, a little more in depth...

Kool & Elfring Speaker Comparison


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## zimbloth (Dec 1, 2009)

sami said:


> For the Rivera video, the V30 sounded best to me. It's rock, how can you not use a V30?
> 
> It'd be nice if Rivera did a high gain metal video with the same speakers.



This proves to me why clips are almost always meaningless. I have the Rivera V30 cab and Rivera K100 cab side by side at my store and every single amp we've ever run through them sounded waaaay better through the K100 one. It's not even close. Much tighter, clearer, punchier, smoother highs, much better performance with high-gain/volume applications, infinitely better cleans. No harsh top end or boomy/loose lows.

In real life when you can really experience both cabs it's* night and day*. Not even close guys. V30s are blues/classic rock speakers. They're alright but honestly there's way better stuff out there IMO.

Honestly, I can't stress it enough: 99% of clips are worthless and misleading. The only way to really know is use your own gear, try them out, and see the difference. There are an infinite amount of variables that come into play with clips, especially amateur ones, which make it a very unreliable way to make a judgment. Its very easy to make any piece of gear sound terrible or great in a recording environment.

Anyways, in my experience getting to routinely "A/B" these, there is NO contest. I've yet to hear an amp that didn't sound dramatically better with K100s than V30s, especially at gigging volumes.


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## Leuchty (Dec 1, 2009)

^ This sounds interesting. I want to pick up another mesa cab and load it with K100's.


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## yacker (Dec 1, 2009)

I feel like even if online clips were an excellent source of gear info, 95% of them would still be ruined by tasteless blues wanking.


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## sami (Dec 1, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> This proves to me why clips are almost always meaningless. I have the Rivera V30 cab and Rivera K100 cab side by side at my store and every single amp we've ever run through them sounded waaaay better through the K100 one. It's not even close. Much tighter, clearer, punchier, smoother highs, much better performance with high-gain/volume applications, infinitely better cleans. No harsh top end or boomy/loose lows.
> 
> In real life when you can really experience both cabs it's* night and day*. Not even close guys. V30s are blues/classic rock speakers. They're alright but honestly there's way better stuff out there IMO.
> 
> ...



Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all about the K100's! If I ever switch back from a bassist, my first-again-cab is going to have them instead


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## Decipher (Dec 1, 2009)

Although I didn't get to try them side by side, when I was deciding on a cab for my Rivera KR100 I got to try the V30 loaded 4x12 before purchasing a "Seven" 4x12. While the V30 loaded cab sounded alright the "Seven" cab is far superior. Besides the great construction of Rivera cabs, these speakers in particular really compliment Rivera's Knucklehead line. Tight, balanced and extremely plunchy. They're nice and clear..... Just great, great speakers.

To the OP, sell every cab you have and just get the "Seven" cab!


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## TomAwesome (Dec 1, 2009)

The K100s have officially been added to my list of speakers I want to try out for my next cab.


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## Sepultorture (Dec 1, 2009)

i wouldn't mind trying the K100's in the ENGL XXL cab side by side with one with V30's

heck even some EVM12L's would be killer to try A/B-ing together


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## cycloptopus (Dec 1, 2009)

I swapped out the V30's for K100's in my Mesa oversized 4x12 slant cab a year ago and I'm a fan. I've had a hard time understanding all the hype around V30's anyway, at least for high gain sounds. The V30's just break up too quickly and before i did the speaker swap, I felt I had to dial out too much bass and gain to get an acceptable tightness to my sound. I believe V30's are designed to break up for a more classic rock tone which is great for edge of breakup/tube saturated/overdriven tones. The K100's can be pushed harder without the breakup, and with a high gain head, I feel I don't really need the speakers to break up. So now I can push the head harder and the speakers react the way I want them to react. I feel the concept is similar to having more overhead in say a Triple Rectifier vs. a Single Rec. Having the overhead means more tighness since the tube saturation isn't creating breakup, same goes for the speakers. 

Just my baseless opinion...


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## TMM (Dec 2, 2009)

silentrage said:


> Looking forward to the review for EVM12L BLs. I have a EVM12L classic on the way, I'd be interested in your findings and how they differ from the classic 12.



EVM12L-BLs arrived today. Just opening the box (and moving the BLS flag that they came with out of the way ), these things immediately looked like they were ready to be used as wrecking balls, both sonically and physically. The frame is really solid, and they weigh a ton.

They also have a cool jack system that I haven't seen before (pics forthcoming), where you can either clip on to the regular speaker ear like most speakers, or they have an actual clip that will hold on to bare wire, if you prefer that route. Very cool design feature!

I also happened to get my Dual Rackto back from repair today... awesome how those two events lined up. Coincidentally, I also happen to have the V2-Ninja in the house, so I really get to put these speakers through their paces. For the record, my 212 is now a 600w cab.

I've only been able to try them out at 'home' volume so far (not 'band' volume, that's Thursday), but, pending said trial at 'band' volume, I think I may have found my new favorite speaker. The EVM12L-BLs are really even sounding compared to anything I've heard in the past, and the unique characteristics of each of the 3 amps (DR, V2NH, & DST-8080) really shine through because of it. They seem to have no trouble reproducing anything you throw at them, even my low Eb with hi-gain on the Red channel of the Dual Rec. There were some super low frequencies coming through - that surprised me, because I haven't heard another 12" speaker reproduce them before. At first I thought it was the kid down the street that always drives by with his subs blasting, but then I realized it was actually coming from the Lopo.

While they sounded awesome at moderate volumes, they sounded like they were just asking to be pushed. I can't wait to hear them with a little more power.

Clips & pics will be forthcoming. Would I have bought these at full price? Hard to say... I really, really like them, but I don't know whether or not any single 12" speaker is worth almost $300, no matter how nice. I can certainly see why Cannibal Corpse is using them, though. I'm sure they would work well for just about any genre of music, but they seem to excel at more extreme styles of music. My long-term goal is to swap the speakers in my H&K Warp 412 out for Greenbacks, so I can have a 412 w/ Greenbacks and the 212 with EVM12L-BLs. I can't think of anything other combination that would sound more massive.


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## jsousa (Dec 2, 2009)

id love to have a cab with the evm stuff. greenbacks always sounded great. but man, v30s do sound good. they arent my favorite ever (p50e's  ) but they are good stuff.


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## silentrage (Dec 2, 2009)

@TMM
Don't you think the difference in efficiency might make that combo not work?
Mine arrived too but I won't be home for a while yet. 
Also how would you go about breakin these in? You'd have to hit them with at least 150w for them to feel anything right?


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## TMM (Dec 2, 2009)

silentrage said:


> @TMM
> Don't you think the difference in efficiency might make that combo not work?



The DST-8080 is dual monobloc, so I have separate volume control for L / R.



silentrage said:


> Also how would you go about breakin these in? You'd have to hit them with at least 150w for them to feel anything right?



Yeah, probably true. The V2NH can dish out 400w at 4ohms though, so I should be fine there.


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## mightywarlock (Dec 4, 2009)

i bought 2 EV12L's off someone a few years ago (OEM and Original...they were really old, but seemed brand new in the boxes from back in the early 80's) and wired them up, but couldn't get it right, and decided to sell them. the guy I sold them to loved them, and I realized I made a mistake with the wiring, and I missed out on really ever trying these speakers correctly. My mistake. (the wire in the cab was too long, and when played, would flap around making a farting sound and I thought there were problems with the speakers...didnt think about the wiring until after i gave up).
I do remember them being extremely loud and clear however, other than the issues I had with them.


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## eaeolian (Dec 4, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> I have all the Rivera cabs here, and I think the KR7 sounds best with the Mick Thompson cab which has the G12-K100s. By far the tightest, clearerst, punchiest, and has highs that are smooth, not harsh. The v30/gt75 cabs I let people compare them to here at the store sound good, but the K100 one is the clear cut winner every time.



I use the K85s - which basically sound like the K100s - and I agree. I've grown to like V30s for recording, though.


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 5, 2009)

i own both v30's and t75's and my vote is for the t75's


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## Wolfster (Dec 5, 2009)

Im thinking of doing an 'X pattern' with V30s and the T75 or K100 speakers. At the moment I have 4 V30s.

Should I go for T75's or K100's?

Ive heard there are Phase issues with having a cross pattern. Is this true? and if so, does it affect the tone so much so that its not worth it?

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## mightywarlock (Dec 6, 2009)

i just picked up a Marshall MF400B cab loaded with K100's.
They remind me of the EV12L's, actually.

Here's my 1st take...

Less gain, by way of less speaker breakup.
Playing the Rivera KR7 through the 1960AV cab (V30's), the distortion comes on quick and a little over the top, and gets a little buzzy around 7 or 8 on gain. However with the MF400, the amp stayed clear all the way to gain on 10. 
There is also a huge jump in volume between the cabs. Much louder with the K100's.
Also much more low end, and a bigger boomy sound. Reminds me of the old Recto Standard cab.
I also feel now that the amp can use an overdrive boost in front now, where before I thought it was fine.

Where the 1960AV would get all muddy when I cranked the amp past a certain point (very loud), the MF400B stays clear and toneful all the way through, albeit sounding a little different. No matter how hard I pushed the amp/cab, i could still hear all the notes i was playing.

Now I'm not totally sure I like the tone as much as what I am used to, as it is a bit different that the typical v-30 sound, and as i said, reminds me of the uncolored EV12L type of tone, that doesn't seem to break up.

I will go back to the studio later today and try the cab with the Dual Rectifier, and also the JCM800KK head.

Further review is needed to make a decision as to whether I really like these or not. 
I also wonder how this cab might sound different from the Rivera SEVEN cab.


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 11, 2009)

Wolfster said:


> Im thinking of doing an 'X pattern' with V30s and the T75 or K100 speakers. At the moment I have 4 V30s.
> 
> Should I go for T75's or K100's?
> 
> ...


 

i wouldnt recommend doing the t75's and the v30's together. i was playing through both my cabs with my 5150 and TSL and found kinda hard to eq for both of them at the same time.. the v30's get too boomy from the bass and too harsh from the highs. but if i take them out, i can hardly hear the t75's since theyre voiced kinda mid scooped. i have never heard the k100s in person so i cant say for those. hope that helps.


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## boltzthrower (Dec 11, 2009)

I can't belive no one's mentioned the classic Lead 80's yet. Best of the bunch IMO. Better fuller mids & low mids than the k-100's. I do like the K-100's, damn fine speakers, but they sound a bit too scooped compared to the CL-80's. The K-100's sound better at lower volumes though, the CL-80's sound muffled at low volumes.

I've been havin' a speaker shoot out for about a week so far with CL-80's, K-100's, EVM 12L's and Vader cab Speakers (Eminence Legend? Modeling 12's?). I've discovered that the best sound is a combo of the CL-80's, EVM 12L's and Legends. Seriously, as soon as i pull any of those speakers out of the combination it sounds like my tone got robbed. I still need to figure out exactly how many of what to put in a 4x12 (6x12?).

Quick sum up of these speakers by themselves.

Vader (Legends?) - Good lows/low mids, tight and percussive. High mids and highs sound a bit dull and muffled compared to the rest of the speakers. 

Classic lead 80's - Good lows, but not quite as tight as the other speakers, these are putting our more overall bass though. Great mids, very full. These speakers definitely have that celestion growl to them. Good highs but be careful down in front!, they're very directional, OMG beam blockers or duct tape on the grill is mandatory.

K-100's - Tight lows. Somewhat lacking in the mids IMO, these speakers sound scooped to me. Highs sounded good but maybe a bit too spiked and a just a little bit thin/hissy. I would use these if my amp sounded too warm and loose.

EVM 12L's - Tight lows, good bass presence. Good mids. Good highs but tend to sound a little bit hissy if not properly EQ'd. This is the most undirectional speaker I've ever heard, you definitely do not want to use beam blockers with these, they'll just kill your highs. These speakers have a character that just cannot be described in words, you'll have to hear it for yourself, I can't explain it.

Also, at bedroom levels, I'm still undecided between the EVM's & the K-100's. Right now the K-100's are in the lead. The legends and the CL-80's suck at low volumes, they sound muffled to all get out.


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## petereanima (Dec 11, 2009)

rep'd. nice review!


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## silentrage (Dec 11, 2009)

Right on man, that's some good review right there.


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 11, 2009)

jsousa said:


> v30 and k100. 75s suck, and the h30 sounds like a not-so-great v30?



The T75's you played probably didn't suck, it was probably just the cabinet.

If It were a 1960A you played, easy to not like it since the A cabs sound average without a B in my personal opinion.

V30's are a great medium.


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## mightywarlock (Dec 31, 2009)

HOwdy again!

Looks Like Rivera did another Speaker shootout!

I'll update the 1st post here, but here is the link to 15 speakers shootout!

YouTube - 15 Speakers compared Celestion vs E.V. vs Eminence vs JBL vs Jensen vs Tone Tubby


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