# ESP Edwards Guitars?



## tkozuch (Sep 6, 2009)

What's the concensus on the ESP Edwards guitars? From everything I have read online, they are generally praised for being equal, if not better to their Gibson counterparts. But, I have never actually seen or played one, so I'm not sure.

I was able to find a pretty sweet deal on a Edwards explorer, and wanted to do some homework on it.


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## setsuna7 (Sep 6, 2009)

I used to own an Edwards Alexi Laiho before I switch to 7s,it is the best line by esp beside their Custom Shop/Sig Series.Even better than the highest ltd line. MIJ,finest craftmenship,flawless.IMHO


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## mrp5150 (Sep 6, 2009)

They don't sound anything like Gibsons at all. Like any decently priced guitars, the quality is hit or miss. I've owned 3 of them...2 were killer and 1 was total junk.


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## abysmalrites (Sep 6, 2009)

I actually played on a Kiko Loureiro Edwards yesterday. That thing was sick, even though I rarely play 6ers. Needless to say, I want scalloped frets now.


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## tkozuch (Sep 6, 2009)

Well, I have always been a huge explorer fan. This Edwards Explorer I came across is going for $500 locally, and from what I have seen, looks immaculate. The guy just needs the cash b/c he lost his job.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 6, 2009)

Not even remotely close to being on par with Gibsons. Edwards are 'ok' Chinese made guitars. I had a nitrocellulose finished Les Paul Custom copy and it was on par with an Epiphone LPC. They're ok guitars, but horribly over hyped. I've owned over a dozen nice Les Pauls and work in a music store that's an authorized Gibson repair station. An Edwards is in no way comparable to a Gibson other than the shape.


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## RenegadeDave (Sep 6, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> Not even remotely close to being on par with Gibsons. Edwards are 'ok' Chinese made guitars. I had a nitrocellulose finished Les Paul Custom copy and it was on par with an Epiphone LPC. They're ok guitars, but horribly over hyped. I've owned over a dozen nice Les Pauls and work in a music store that's an authorized Gibson repair station. An Edwards is in no way comparable to a Gibson other than the shape.



I'm sure you've played a Gibson, but have you played an Edwards? They're made in Japan. Not China.


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## setsuna7 (Sep 6, 2009)

Dude,Edwards are MADE IN JAPAN.not china


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## tkozuch (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm not trying to bash on Gibsons at all, so sorry if it came off that way. I know Gibsons are awesome, but I'm just wondering how this compares, b/c I have played Gibson Explorers before. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, I like my Agiles better than my old Gibson LP - but that's a whoooole nother can of worms that I won't go into.


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## HighGain510 (Sep 6, 2009)

abysmalrites said:


> I actually played on a Kiko Loureiro Edwards yesterday. That thing was sick, even though I rarely play 6ers. Needless to say, I want scalloped frets now.



Did you play one in a shop or was it someone else's guitar? I had one and miss it...  If it was in a store PM me the info please. 



Nitrobattery said:


> Not even remotely close to being on par with Gibsons. Edwards are 'ok' Chinese made guitars. I had a nitrocellulose finished Les Paul Custom copy and it was on par with an Epiphone LPC. They're ok guitars, but horribly over hyped. I've owned over a dozen nice Les Pauls and work in a music store that's an authorized Gibson repair station. An Edwards is in no way comparable to a Gibson other than the shape.



Edwards are made in China now? The one I had was definitely made in Japan.... 


Anywho, I've only had experience with one Edwards model and that was the Kiko Loureiro sig I had for a little while. It was a top notch guitar, I loved it but moved it when I needed some extra cash. If I could find another one locally I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up. I haven't played their LP or other knockoff models but I've only heard good things about them from most folks I've talked to. Never heard of anything they do produced in China unless it's like the uber cheap "Grassroots" line from ESP maybe? The Kiko was top notch IMO.  That scalloped ebony board felt like glass and the fretwork was great!


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 6, 2009)

Not Japanese, Chinese. The first runs of Edwards guitars were entirely made in Japan. These days the manufacturing (woodworking through painting) is done in an ESP factory just inside the Chinese border in the Northeast province of Heilongjiang. They're then sent to Japan for the rest of assembly.

I've had LTD's that I liked infinitely more than the Edwards I had


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## technomancer (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm curious what your source of information is for this? If Edwards production has moved to China it happened recently, as the last time I talked to a friend of mine who's a dealer (about 12 months ago) they were still being made in Japan.


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## Xiphos68 (Sep 6, 2009)

abysmalrites said:


> I actually played on a Kiko Loureiro Edwards yesterday. That thing was sick, even though I rarely play 6ers. Needless to say, I want scalloped frets now.


How much was it?


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 6, 2009)

technomancer said:


> I'm curious what your source of information is for this? If Edwards production has moved to China it happened recently, as the last time I talked to a friend of mine who's a dealer (about 12 months ago) they were still being made in Japan.



It's nothing recent. ESP established a joint venture in Northeast China in early 1992, named the Heilongjiang ESP Electronic Audio Co., Ltd. ESP made this move due to Chinas opening of the Northeast Asia Economic Subregion--in short this was an agreement among China, Russia, Japan and Korea to ease restrictions and tariffs on the import and export of finished and particularly unfinished goods among one another. This cooperation among the countries was renewed and expanded in 2003. 

In the case of ESP, this provided the availability of cheap, trained, literate workers, and cheap factory workspace. Obviously, for China it meant jobs in a region that was shedding thousands of heavy industry and mining jobs. So the deal was done and ESP established a factory in Jixi, Heilongjiang to do the woodworking and painting of guitars 

Raw materials are ocean-shipped by ESP to Vladivostok, Russia where the materials are shipped by train about 200 km to the Suifenhe Sino-Russian Trade Zone. There they enter China at the Suifenhe port of entry and move an additional 120+ km to the ESP factory at Jixi. After the semi-finished guitars leave the factory, it is possible to reach Japan and the ROK directly by means of overland and marine transport from Suifenhe customs office via Vladivostok or Nakhodka, Russia

The ESP factory is located at No. 20, Xishan Rd., Jixi, Heilongjiang, China and employs about 100 people. According to responses from ESP, the preliminary work on both Edwards and ESP guitars are done at this factory, from woodworking through painting. ESP claims that high degree of craftsmanship is maintained on the Edwards line because they are built totally within ESP facilitiesin China, ESP has its own (high quality) factory, its own staff trained by ESP and production is done under the ESP monitoring. None of the work is contracted to other factories.

The finish process and installation of all the electronics, plastics and hardware is still done in Japan at the ESP Japan Factory in Saitama, Tokyo. This new factory was opened in June 2008. This factory is in the greater Tokyo area, about 20-30 km north of central Tokyo. ESP also has factories in Sado and Kiso for export mainly, but these now do not work on the Edwards line.


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## tkozuch (Sep 6, 2009)

so the question is this... $500 for a minty edwards explorer would be a steal?


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 6, 2009)

I'd do it.


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## technomancer (Sep 6, 2009)

Agreed, definitely worth it for $500.


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## mrp5150 (Sep 6, 2009)

tkozuch said:


> so the question is this... $500 for a minty edwards explorer would be a steal?



Yeah, that's a good price.


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## tkozuch (Sep 6, 2009)

That's what I thought. Nice. Might have to jump all over it.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 6, 2009)

Is it more like a Gibson Explorer or like an ESP MX? If it's a natural MX style keep in mind that it's probably the worst guitar that Edwards makes. Whether it's worth $500 to you though, is ultimately up to you


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## yamahasoldier (Sep 6, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> Not even remotely close to being on par with Gibsons. Edwards are 'ok' Chinese made guitars. I had a nitrocellulose finished Les Paul Custom copy and it was on par with an Epiphone LPC. They're ok guitars, but horribly over hyped. I've owned over a dozen nice Les Pauls and work in a music store that's an authorized Gibson repair station. An Edwards is in no way comparable to a Gibson other than the shape.



Id have to strongly disagree with you... They are by far superior to a cheap ol epiphone and in "my opinion" every bit as good as a gibson. You maybe got burned on a bad one, but in my experience they have made some consistently nice guitars. I prefer it to my esp eclipse any day of the week, and to most gibsons ive played. Gibsons are a hit or miss all the time these days with finish flaws.


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## abysmalrites (Sep 6, 2009)

Xiphos68 said:


> How much was it?



Like I told HighGain, I played someone else's KL Edwards. It wasn't in a shop or for sale in any form. New they're around 2k but I doubt that includes customs fees and whatnot, seeing as you have to import it.

Note: The model I played in specific is 178,500 yen new.

EDIT: If anyone knows how to go about getting a new one, shoot me a PM.


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## poopyalligator (Sep 6, 2009)

I have played the edwards KL model as well, and i thought it was a pretty nice instrument if you ask me. I have only tried that one guitar so i guess i couldnt really give you a good opinion about their full line as a company, but the price for the guitar sounds pretty good.


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## maxident213 (Sep 6, 2009)

Has anyone played any of the Edwards Forest models? I see them on ebay all the time, very nice-looking guitars.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 6, 2009)

yamahasoldier said:


> Id have to strongly disagree with you... They are by far superior to a cheap ol epiphone and in "my opinion" every bit as good as a gibson. You maybe got burned on a bad one, but in my experience they have made some consistently nice guitars. I prefer it to my esp eclipse any day of the week, and to most gibsons ive played. Gibsons are a hit or miss all the time these days with finish flaws.



To each their own. Coming from a tech's perspective though, after owning an Edwards and doing several setups on other ones, I've seen several neck angle issues, twisted necks, finish flaws etc etc. I've also owned several Standard Series ESP's, and of all of them my Eclipse II VTB was by far the worst. IMO saying an Edwards is better than an Eclipse II isn't saying much.


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## helly (Sep 8, 2009)

I gotta say, being an Edwards owner that doesn't make any sense to me at all. Mine's absolutely perfect, granted it's a prototype from a run that never reached full production, but I'd be hard pressed to find a Gibson of any kind that plays as nicely as my Les Paul does.

I've also heard far too many good things about other Edwards guitars to believe that they have such QC issues. Especially considering that Gibson of the kings are QC problems since the 70s.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 8, 2009)

helly said:


> I gotta say, being an Edwards owner that doesn't make any sense to me at all. Mine's absolutely perfect, granted it's a prototype from a run that never reached full production, but I'd be hard pressed to find a Gibson of any kind that plays as nicely as my Les Paul does.
> 
> I've also heard far too many good things about other Edwards guitars to believe that they have such QC issues. Especially considering that Gibson of the kings are QC problems since the 70s.



At the same time though, it's been my experience that a lot of Edwards owners haven't had a lot of experience playing a lot of other guitars. Their Edwards usually tends to be the nicest guitar in their collection. Most seasoned players that have owned and played a lot of cool gear seem to have the same opinion of Edwards guitars that I do. They're cool guitars, come with good hardware and electronics, and are right on par with higher end LTD's and just below most Standard Series ESP's. If you pick one up used it's a great deal. Buying new and paying shipping expenses from Japan....I don't think they're worth it. 

Gibson's quality control is horrendous and I would never, ever buy a new Gibson. However, even considering Gibson's terrible QC, I still think that a new Les Paul Standard smokes an Edwards Les Paul any day of the week. Bottom line, it's just not fair comparing the two. You're comparing a $1,000 guitar to a $2,500 guitar. That's like comparing a Kia to an Audi. Sure the Kia is a solid car and you're getting a lot of bang for your buck...but against an A4 there's no contest. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not bashing Edwards guitars...but to say they're better built than a Gibson is just ridiculous.


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## helly (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't disagree that they'd rank between the ESP standard series and the high end LTDs in quality, except to maybe say that some would be on par with ESP standards, depending on which Edwards you end up with.

To say that an Edwards LP doesn't stack up to a Gibson standard sounds like a joke to me, though.

I can only speak for myself, and my guitarist friends that have gotten the opportunity to play my guitar, but from my personal experiences, there is not a Gibson that plays as nicely as an Edwards Les Paul. I was shopping for one before I ended up with my Edwards, and I've never been happier. Once I bought the Edwards, I even came across the opportunity to play a well set up Gibson custom LP that a friend of mine had commissioned (I don't know how much he payed, but I think somewhere in the range of 4-5 thousand) and even after that, I believe that the Edwards _played_ better.

There are some minor finish issues. Some clearcoat that ran up on the side of the nut, the binding isn't spectacular either, it's a bit delicate, though it is well done otherwise.

But these are issues that to me don't matter at all. I play every guitar I own on stage, I tour with them and I generally play them about as hard as they can handle being played. They spend all of their time in practice spaces or vans, not in my home and thus the quality of the finish is going to deteriorate regardless of how nice it started out.

I won't pay 2500$+ for a guitar that has good fit and finish when I can pay less than a grand for a guitar that has spectacular fit and average finish. And if there's any problems, another hundred bucks or so and you get a setup and a fret dress, and your Edwards plays as well or better than any Gibson there ever was.

EDIT: I should say, I don't actually own a guitar that hasn't had a professional setup, my favorite set of strings and a fret dress before I even played it for the first time. I just don't believe that you can fully judge a guitar's without it. Also, regardless of the finish in the back of the neck, I always have it sanded down so it doesn't grab against a sweaty thumb, and so I can't comment on problems I've had with the finish on the back of the neck.

For whatever it's worth, I've bought and sold an ESP Eclipse II, a Horizon and an LTD H-1001 and AX2E all in the time that I've owned the Edwards. The only guitars I keep in my collection now are my Edwards Les Paul and my Schecter C-1 Hellraiser as a backup. I have no intents of replacing either. They play wonderfully, they were incredibly cheap for their quality (and yet are spectacular in quality regardless of value) which means every time I risk having them stolen pr irreparably damaged, I know they can be replaced.

I do, however, completely agree with you that to get the absolute best value for your money, you should buy Edwards used. However, you should buy any guitars used. It's ALWAYS a better deal, in my experience.


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## Esp Griffyn (Sep 9, 2009)

Edwards are vastly superior to Gibson, thats all there is to say on the matter really.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 9, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Edwards are vastly superior to Gibson, thats all there is to say on the matter really.



Haha, ok.

I think I've said all that I really need to say in this thread. If anything, I'm jealous of some of you guys. If I had your perception of quality, I'd definitely save myself a lot of money.


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## HamBungler (Sep 9, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> Haha, ok.
> 
> I think I've said all that I really need to say in this thread. If anything, I'm jealous of some of you guys. If I had your perception of quality, I'd definitely save myself a lot of money.



Qualiy is purely subjective, unless you're playing a DeVries or something. When you get into leagues of high-class instruments like that they the margin of quality diminishes and you're left simply to taste, so I dunno why you made such a big deal of it. I myself hate Gibsons for the most part and their form of "quality", yet I love ESP/LTD/Edwards because I think they feel and play awesome, and for the price the quality is pretty top-notch, and in my opinion, better than that of some Gibsons.


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## TemjinStrife (Sep 9, 2009)

A good Edwards is much better than a bad Gibson. However, I'm loath to buy either unplayed.


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## technomancer (Sep 9, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> Haha, ok.
> 
> I think I've said all that I really need to say in this thread. If anything, I'm jealous of some of you guys. If I had your perception of quality, I'd definitely save myself a lot of money.



Wow, you sir are awesome. I particularly like your insinuation that anybody that doesn't agree with you is an inexperienced noob that doesn't know what a good guitar is 

I do think you're right though, you've definitely said more than enough


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## HighGain510 (Sep 9, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> I think I've said all that I really need to say in this thread. If anything, I'm jealous of some of you guys. If I had your perception of quality, I'd definitely save myself a lot of money.



I've had a lot of gear (I think anyone who has been on here for more than a few days knows that...) and I didn't feel the quality on the Edwards Kiko I owned was lacking in any department. But you're probably right, I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't played your specific Gibson that clearly crushes any other guitar ever manufactured (probably better than the really nice boutique guitars I own or have played). I wish I had, so I too would be absolutely enlightened above all on this board!  Sorry for not being able to comprehend quality nearly as close as you since you set up guitars in a music store.


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 9, 2009)

technomancer said:


> Wow, you sir are awesome. I particularly like your insinuation that anybody that doesn't agree with you is an inexperienced noob that doesn't know what a good guitar is
> 
> I do think you're right though, you've definitely said more than enough



I just can't help but pipe back in. The original post was asking opinions about Edwards guitars and he was asking if they lived up to the hype. He was asking the same question I asked a year ago on other boards. I read a bunch of great reviews so I bought one sight unseen. I've since worked on several other Edwards guitars. I've also owned over a dozen Les Pauls and have worked on a few hundred Gibsons. 

To clear things up, I currently don't own a Gibson and don't really have a desire to pick up another one (new at least). Their QC is horrendous, they're a pain in the ass to deal with, and their current pricing is absolutely absurd. 

I've also owned over a dozen ESP's, LTD's, owned an Edwards and worked in a store that's an ESP dealer. I think LTD's for the money are fantastic. I can't say enough good things about them. The Standard Series ESP stuff I've had has been pretty good. I liked my Horizon NT-II a lot and in the market for a new one. 

But to compare compare an Edwards to a Gibson, in my opinion, and in my experience...is a pretty big stretch. I was just trying to give my two cents and save someone some disappointment if they dropped a grand on a guitar that they thought was going to be every bit as good as a nice Les Paul (or better) and ended up getting something that felt and sounded like a mid level LTD. 

Bottom line, I'm not saying Edwards guitars are bad. I never said that in this thread. However, in a blindfold test....I'm sure just about everyone could choose a Gibson Les Paul Custom over an Edwards E-LP-98LTC



HighGain510 said:


> I've had a lot of gear (I think anyone who has been on here for more than a few days knows that...) and I didn't feel the quality on the Edwards Kiko I owned was lacking in any department. But you're probably right, I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't played your specific Gibson that clearly crushes any other guitar ever manufactured (probably better than the really nice boutique guitars I own or have played). I wish I had, so I too would be absolutely enlightened above all on this board!  Sorry for not being able to comprehend quality nearly as close as you since you set up guitars in a music store.



I'm really just floored by how completely blown out of proportion this has gotten.


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## HighGain510 (Sep 9, 2009)

I think when you make inflammatory statements, such as suggesting the members on here have no idea what they're talking about with regard to what a quality guitar looks and feels like, or couldn't possibly have been exposed to nicer gear than you have, you should expect it sir.  There are a LOT of folks on here with extremely nice gear who can tell the difference, it is just a bit insulting to assume otherwise, that's all.


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## technomancer (Sep 9, 2009)

Nitrobattery said:


> Bottom line, I'm not saying Edwards guitars are bad. I never said that in this thread. However, in a blindfold test....I'm sure just about everyone could choose a Gibson Les Paul Custom over an Edwards E-LP-98LTC



The OP found an Edwards Explorer and asked if it was likely to be a decent guitar. The answer is yes, and for $500 it is more than likely to be a good buy.

As for things being blown out or proportion, when you basically state that people who think Edwards guitars are good have mostly never played a high end instrument, what do you expect? 

For the OP: If it's a local guy, go play the thing and see if you like it, it's likely to be a great deal for the money


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## Nitrobattery (Sep 9, 2009)

HighGain510 said:


> I think when you make inflammatory statements, such as suggesting the members on here have no idea what they're talking about with regard to what a quality guitar looks and feels like, or couldn't possibly have been exposed to nicer gear than you have, you should expect it sir.  There are a LOT of folks on here with extremely nice gear who can tell the difference, it is just a bit insulting to assume otherwise, that's all.



Which was never my intent. I'm still flabbergasted that some people hold Edwards guitars in such high regard...but to each their own. However if you go back and look at the thread again, from the moment I pointed out that Edwards are Chinese made...people were jumping down my throat left and right. I've never bashed Edwards guitars in any way shape or form. It wasn't my intent to sound elitist by any means. All I was saying is that every Edwards I've come in contact with hasn't knocked me out.


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## HighGain510 (Sep 9, 2009)

This guitar was awesome, that's all I can add to the thread. 

























For $500 I don't think you can go wrong on that explorer, OP. Hit that, then take pics!


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## Deymoursuncan (Sep 10, 2009)

I've got an Edwards and it plays better than any gibson ive laid my hands on. Sound is dead on, cuz its Seymour Duncans. Personally it was a total hit for me. It's worth the money and is a real looker. Personally, they live up to their hype, but theres a lot of bashers out there who won't look at a guitar if it doesn't have the letters G-I-B-S-O-N spelled out on the headstock. 

What people seem to not get is that it's not about the name on the headstock anymore. It is whether or not the player is satisfied or not. Now you may may or may not come away satisfied after the purchase, but that was your own opinion and its not whether they are good or bad, it was just that you didnt like it. You could listen to good opinions all day and find that it sux or vice versa. 

I say go for it and i wish all the best. 

-DS \m/


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## possumkiller (Sep 10, 2009)

Well Ive owned 2 edwards guitars. An EAL128 Arrowhead which aside from getting the horn chipped in shipping was a BADASS playing and feeling guitar. Ive owned an Edwards explorer I cant remember the model number but its the satin cloudy black one with EMGs and no pickguard. That was a badass guitar I just didnt like how the horn got in the way of my hand when trying to play up high but thats because it was shaped like an explorer. Ive also owned a ESP SS Horizon NTII, UCM2, custom shop KH4 and I would spend my money on an Edwards before I would buy a standard series. The Edwards have been just as good in every aspect as a standard series ESP just with a different headstock logo. I would spend 1k and less on an Edwards before spending a few hundred more for a different logo on the same quality guitar. My cousin also owns an EAL128 Scythe that is his main guitar for about 3 years now and its still perfect feeling and playing and is why I got into Edwards to begin with. Ive played a load of Gibsons at various stores and friends places but Ive never found one that didnt have something wrong with it. Not a single one.


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## helly (Sep 10, 2009)

Fact is, Edwards may not be knockout quality guitars compared to a Blackmachine or some other high-end custom. This is true. And maybe, as to the quality of the woods used and the finish, they might not compete with some of the higher end Gibsons that made it through the factory without QC problems.

They are, however, spectacular guitars from a player's standpoint. Period. Regardless of the fact that they are made half in China and half in Japan, regardless of their price, and regardless of the hype. They are wonderful, and if you pay a thousand dollars or less for one, you are absolutely guaranteed to be getting an awesome deal.

Go for it, OP.


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## ToniS (Sep 11, 2009)

I want an Edwards Les Paul so bad.


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## TimothyLeary (Sep 11, 2009)

tongarr said:


> I want an Edwards Les Paul so bad.



you're not alone my friend!


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