# String Review: Octave4Plus .006 High A (up to 30" scale) on Agile Intrepid



## TemjinStrife (Apr 11, 2009)

DISCLAIMER: Apparently, after talking with Garry, I ordered the improper strings; since my instrument was a string-thru-body guitar, and I did not specify it as such, I did not get strings optimized for string-thru-body and thus this probably has an effect on the following review.

With that said, here is the original text.

So, having played around with my Intrepid for a few months, I was really struggling to figure out what exactly to do with it. Most amps I tried really didn't like the low F#, and since I'm not a huge Meshuggah fan, I didn't really have much to do with it on its own.

So, I decided it would be fun to try out a high A string. However, since the Intrepid is 28.625" scale, I would need one of Gary Goodman's special strings from octave4plus.com.

Since these are apparently handmade to order, it took about a week and a half for them to show up. Not too bad, overall. They also came with a page full of instructions! 

Apparently, you have to let these stretch out in order to have them able to reach such a high tuning at such a long scale. So, according to this documentation:

1) First, tune to high E.
2) Wait a few minutes.
3) Tune up to high G.
4) Wait 5-10 minutes for longer scale guitars.
5) Bring up to high G#. 
6)Wait another length of time.
7) Gently ease up to high A. If the string doesn't seem to be moving when you turn the knob, STOP and wait for it to stretch out some more.

Wow, this is complex! Alright. So, I put a string on (these things are like human hairs!) and started an episode of _Top Gear_ on my laptop. 15 minutes later, I gently began to ease it up to high G. It tuned smoothly up, then held tune at G. 

I left it there for the rest of the episode (45 minutes) then began to ease it up. It again tuned smoothly up towards G#, then suddenly, 'ping'! 

The ball end launched out the back of the guitar, and the string was dead. Sigh. Now I know why they require that you order at least 5 of these damn things!

By being extremely careful and waiting 15-20 minutes between moving up half steps, I eventually got the second one up to high A. Gingerly, I began to lightly play it, and it held! Volume was good, it balanced pretty well tension-wise with the 9-42+56 Elixir set that was on there, and it sounded pretty good!

So far so good. I played it lightly for a while, then left it overnight. Did the same the following day. Damn, these things are a lot of work!

The fourth day or so, I jammed on it with my brother and it held up just fine. Then, I brought it up to my room for a little cool-down practice to get to grips with it (I tuned it AEAEAAEA for some crazy drone slide fun) and generally had a blast.

Woke up at 5am to the 'ping' of the string self-destructing. 

A bit annoyed, I put a third string on, spent an hour getting it up to high A. It broke two days later mid-jam, and I wasn't playing very hard.

So, now I have 3 .006 strings, and I've restrung my Intrepid to low F#. These things are more of a bother than they're worth at this scale length, in my opinion. I certainly couldn't trust them live, and at an hour or more to restring, I couldn't deal with it dying on me.

I mean, don't get me wrong! It is a technically impressive feat that a .006 string can even exist, and exist tuned to such a high note on such a long scale! But, after going through half of my supply of these things and having them last barely longer in terms of playtime than it took to get them on (and I am NOT a hard-hitting player by any stretch of the imagination, not on an 8!) I'm gonna have to give these a .

I simply cannot trust them to hold pitch and survive even one live show. It's not my string path (totally clean, no burrs, although some sanding might be in order to truly ensure that); it's not my technique (light pick attack, little to no bending/vibrato on the high string, scale length an inch and change below 'designed' spec.) They simply don't work for me, and if they're this bad on a 28.625" scale instrument, I can't imagine dealing with them on the 30" scale, which they are ostensibly designed for.

Please note though: the Intrepid is not a top-shelf custom instrument. It will likely need some cleanup and work before it is truly ready to use these, and by not doing so myself, I may have skewed the results.

If you have any questions, arguments, or complaints, please feel free to post them. I've got three more of these left, and I'm willing to try again if someone can give me a really, really good reason to (or some factor I may not have considered!)

EDIT: Gary got in touch with me, and chastised me a bit for not talking to him first. Indeed, getting in touch with him would probably have been a good idea; I just wanted to share my total-n00b experiences with these strings. He has even generously offered to take all 3 strings back and send me new ones free of charge. What service!

Please note, for anyone who wishes to order these: specify scale length, bridge type, and distance from tuner to nut, as these are all apparently important factors in deciding which string to send you!

Also, others have recommended
-sanding the string path with 600 grit sandpaper to really smooth things out
-letting the string stretch overnight at high E before following the rest of the instructions

Finally, please note that I am very impressed with the fact that these strings do work at all! My main point in posting this review was to let everyone know that these are truly not ordinary strings and really need a lot of care and attention and time to get them functioning properly... so if you're impatient, you will break them.


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## troyguitar (Apr 11, 2009)

Where along the string are they breaking?

(I've never used one so probably can't help, but I'm curious)


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 12, 2009)

One broke at the ball end, the other two broke somewhere along the string's length.


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## Dusty201087 (Apr 12, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> Where along the string are they breaking?
> 
> (I've never used one so probably can't help, but I'm curious)



This. If it's at the bridge, tuner, or nut, you may want to check there for problems.

Hmmm... I wonder if these would have the same reaction to a 27" scale? The tension would probably be a great deal less, but who knows. TBH I like crazy thin strings (I have a .008 set on my Schecter) so I'm kind of waiting until GG can do like a .005 or .004 before I venture into the realm of tuning to a high A


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## Adam (Apr 12, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> So, having played around with my Intrepid for a few months, I was really struggling to figure out what exactly to do with it. Most amps I tried really didn't like the low F#, and since I'm not a huge Meshuggah fan, I didn't really have much to do with it on its own.
> 
> So, I decided it would be fun to try out a high A string. However, since the Intrepid is 28.625" scale, I would need one of Gary Goodman's special strings from octave4plus.com.
> 
> ...



That's too bad that they didn't work out for you, you could always hit up Leo(Durero) with a pm to see what he did to maintain the high A at the 28.625 scale. In my 2 years of experience/playing of these strings I have never have encountered any of those problems even when using Garry's prototype strings. Heres a vid I made of the strength of his strings:

I have had some of his strings for up to 2 months on my guitars with no problems. What may help but not solve the problem is to use graphtech saddles, they almost double the lifespan.


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## GorillaSalsa (Apr 12, 2009)

I use the high A strings on my intrepid, and it's held up for a week or so now, perfectly fine. I had some trouble when I first ordered them too, which is why I would suggest waiting longer than the recommended time. I spent a full day playing around with the string tuned to G# before I got the balls to venture up to A.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 12, 2009)

did you manually stretch it a little when it was still loose-ish? i always stretch my strings alot when re-stringing and tuning up, and i can imagine you would benefit from stretching it when it's tuned to the high E.


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Adam said:


> That's too bad that they didn't work out for you, you could always hit up Leo(Durero) with a pm to see what he did to maintain the high A at the 28.625 scale. In my 2 years of experience/playing of these strings I have never have encountered any of those problems even when using Garry's prototype strings. Heres a vid I made of the strength of his strings:
> 
> I have had some of his strings for up to 2 months on my guitars with no problems. What may help but not solve the problem is to use graphtech saddles, they almost double the lifespan.




Although, it's worth mentioning that the guitar you're using there is more than three inches less in scale length than the Intrepid...


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## Adam (Apr 12, 2009)

thinkpad20 said:


> Although, it's worth mentioning that the guitar you're using there is more than three inches less in scale length than the Intrepid...



Yes, but I ws just clearing up any confusion about the string being fragile and/or faulty. Like I mentioned he should contact Leo about it since he is the only one I know of who has the most experience with Garry's strings at the 28.625"-30" scale.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 12, 2009)

Trust me, with the third string I played around with it at high G and G# for a very long time before easing it up to A.

And no string broke at the nut, tuner, or saddle. One self-destructed at night while I wasn't playing pretty much right over the 12th fret, one broke at the ball-end during tuneup, and the last one broke right at my fingers when I was doing gentle, slow vibrato at the 7th fret after two or three days of stretching and gradual tuning. No burrs or anything on the frets there, so I can't see any real culprit. 

I'll get in touch with Durero, but I'm a bit frustrated as I've gotten less than three hours' play time out of three strings that took an hour or more each to get on there.

For those of you on a shorter scale length, I'd recommend one of his heavier strings anyways. A .007 or .008 will be a lot more durable than a .006. The only reason I went for said .006 was because it's the only string in his catalog rated to >28" scale.


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## thinkpad20 (Apr 12, 2009)

My incoming RG8 is 27"... seems like a good enough compromise between the two. I'm planning on tuning it GCFBbEbGCF, so it won't be that high... an 009 on the high string should be able to handle that well enough, even for full step bends etc. (I would think)


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## Adam (Apr 12, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> Trust me, with the third string I played around with it at high G and G# for a very long time before easing it up to A.
> 
> And no string broke at the nut, tuner, or saddle. One self-destructed at night while I wasn't playing pretty much right over the 12th fret, one broke at the ball-end during tuneup, and the last one broke right at my fingers when I was doing gentle, slow vibrato at the 7th fret after two or three days of stretching and gradual tuning. No burrs or anything on the frets there, so I can't see any real culprit.
> 
> ...



Hmm, that really weird, did you mention to Garry that you have a rear loading guitar as opposed to a top loading? Also which ball end do you have on your strings, a regular twisted style or Garry patented one?


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 12, 2009)

Adam said:


> Hmm, that really weird, did you mention to Garry that you have a rear loading guitar as opposed to a top loading? Also which ball end do you have on your strings, a regular twisted style or Garry patented one?



I did mention that.

I've got the patented brass-looking ball end with the teeny little allen head screw.


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## Adam (Apr 12, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> I did mention that.
> 
> I've got the patented brass-looking ball end with the teeny little allen head screw.



Hmm that's odd that you would still have these problems then, maybe a bad batch? Garry is always happy to exchange defective ones for new ones for free.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 13, 2009)

Odds are it's a setup issue somewhere, as the Intrepid is a lower-end MIK instrument. I'm certainly more likely to blame the instrument than the strings... however, it should be said that I don't know if this combination of .006 string and long scale is really legitimately giggable. I'd be too worried about string breaks and being gentle to really enjoy myself in a live setting!


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## Durero (Apr 13, 2009)

I'd encourage you to keep working with these strings Josh. I find them totally addicting once you get used to having that high range available on your neck.

They do require you to learn a completely different re-stringing process from any other steel strings though, and I think that can be extra frustrating for experienced players who are already used to how regular plain steel strings behave when you stretch and tune them up.

With normal strings players will stretch them just to avoid the inconvenience of having them go flat as you play, but with these high A strings at this scale the stretching process has to be completed _before_ tuning up to the high A.

I always let mine stretch overnight at E before applying the same gradual tuning up to A process you described in your original post. Now that I'm used to the process they've worked beautifully every time and last for months.

But I must have went through 6 or 7 strings in leaning how they behave, breaking them on my bridge saddle, breaking them on the tuning post, trying two different types of locking tuners, then returning to the original non-locking one. I found that the strings are so small and sensitive that I had to fine sand and polish every surface they touch (ie. nut, tuner and bridge saddle) even if there were no burrs or imperfections visible to my eye.

I must say that Garry has been extremely generous, patient, and supportive in his dealings with me, and always replaced any strings which failed at the ball-end for free, and often even offered to replace the ones which I broke entirely due to my own fault.

The learning process took me quite a while but was well worth it to me. I was determined to take advantage of these strings because I had experimented with trying to reach high A many years ago and no string could do it at all back then, so these newly developed strings are particularly exciting to me.


Your point about being afraid to gig with them is important. To me it's the same situation as playing a guitar with a floating bridge - if I'm playing a gig where I absolutely need to count on having access to the high A string, then I need a backup guitar at that gig - just like with a floating bridge making a string change mid-gig is not practical. And as I've gained experience with these strings and what their limits are and how long they last, I'm better able to judge when I need to bring a backup and when I feel confident enough in them that I don't need the backup.


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## Niels (Apr 13, 2009)

You know Gary's instruction also say you should smooth out any contact point these strings may have, this is because the string is very strong but also very sensitive to sharp edges.

You should try and use some 600 sand paper and smooth down things like the nut and the bridge, also use a hex wrench or something alike to smooth out the inside of the tuner and smooth out the sides of the hole.

Couple of things also mentioned;

If the string breaks near the ball end you have tuned up too quickly.
If it breaks at the tuner or nut, it has been damaged by rough surface.
If it breaks in the middle you might have bend it too high or tuned it too high.

I bought a couple 26" 006 strings for B4 and these damn things made it to C5, it's stable for almost a week now. I've also made sure the string didn't make any too sharp turns, so I completely smoothed out the tuner holes and used locking tuners.

I'd said smooth everything out and just keep trying, I think it's really worth it


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 13, 2009)

Alright guys, thanks for all the advice.

Gary actually contacted me himself, and offered me a refund, as well as a little chastisement for not contacting him first! Unfortunately, I gave one of the broken strings away to a luthier friend, who was interested in the idea.

I will work with him on this, and we will see what will come from it. For now I have switched back to a low E for textural stuff on some recordings, but I'll try them again later when I am less frustrated (and can get more .056 Elixirs for another low B!)

When I do, I will:
-sand the string path
-follow Durero's advice about stringing up and stretching overnight

I also appended the review following Gary's correspondence.


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## Adam (Apr 13, 2009)

Also according to Garry you seem to have posted the wrong set of instructions, and that you did not inform him of the correct scale length, whether or not it was top loading or rear loading and the distance between the nut and the tuner. 

If I were the one who had recieved the strings followed the instructions and the strings broke, I would immediately contact Garry about it first to find out what to do next instead of posting that you followed the instructions and the string broke.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 13, 2009)

Yeah, but it wasn't 'expensive' on a level where I really felt a need to address it. I understand why they cost so much (handmade, specialized product, small market, etc.) I just didn't really feel strongly enough about it to go through what I assumed to be (again, assumptions getting the better of me I suppose) a long and drawn-out customer service process. I just figured I'd post my results and move on.

However, looks like that was not to be the case. I'm willing to give these another go, although hunting down lost broken strings is not a pasttime I usually chase...

EDIT: First post updated, following some more correspondence with Garry. Apparently, since I did not specify 'string thru body' in my order, I ordered the wrong strings. I am working with him to sort this whole misunderstanding out.


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## foreverburn (Apr 9, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> Yeah, but it wasn't 'expensive' on a level where I really felt a need to address it. I understand why they cost so much (handmade, specialized product, small market, etc.) I just didn't really feel strongly enough about it to go through what I assumed to be (again, assumptions getting the better of me I suppose) a long and drawn-out customer service process. I just figured I'd post my results and move on.
> 
> However, looks like that was not to be the case. I'm willing to give these another go, although hunting down lost broken strings is not a pasttime I usually chase...
> 
> EDIT: First post updated, following some more correspondence with Garry. Apparently, since I did not specify 'string thru body' in my order, I ordered the wrong strings. I am working with him to sort this whole misunderstanding out.


 
Sorry to bump and old thread, but I just had a very bad experience with o4p strings. I ordered them for my Schecter C-8 and I got them today (after placing the initial order on 2/20). 

I followed the directions to the letter, only to have all the strings with the o4p ball end on them snap off at the ball with almost no tension on them. One even broke off at G3... The directions say to tune them up to E4 and then wait for a time, then tune them up slowly. I did that, and they broke LONG before they ever got near the pitch I was going for. I wasn't even going all the way up to A, just to G and I never even got close to that.

The lower strings are working out great, but the reasoning behind ordering the strings wasn't because I can't hit the lower pitches, it's because I can't hit the higher ones. The really crappy part of the story is that whoever answers the emails from their splitsecond email account has a major attitude problem. She accused me of not reading the directions, being impatient, etc. She has mocked me and really been kind of a bitch to me.

Because of this poor service, I'm returning the strings for a refund of my money. Guess I'm just gonna have to invent my own tuning for my 8 since I can't hit G4.


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## foreverburn (Apr 9, 2010)

Also I am pretty damn sure I specified string through body on my app for the strings.


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## Adam (Apr 9, 2010)

foreverburn said:


> Sorry to bump and old thread, but I just had a very bad experience with o4p strings. I ordered them for my Schecter C-8 and I got them today (after placing the initial order on 2/20).
> 
> I followed the directions to the letter, only to have all the strings with the o4p ball end on them snap off at the ball with almost no tension on them. One even broke off at G3... The directions say to tune them up to E4 and then wait for a time, then tune them up slowly. I did that, and they broke LONG before they ever got near the pitch I was going for. I wasn't even going all the way up to A, just to G and I never even got close to that.
> 
> ...



You didnt happen to yank the string through the bridge when loading it in like most people do with regular strings? This does cause the ball end to pop off. I have been using o4p strings for 3 years now at and have never encountered any problems, I even an A4 at the 30.2" scale without issue. 

Also choosing the correct bridge type(top loading/backloading) is VERY important. Have you tried contacting Garry directly instead of whoever is answering those emails? I'd really hate to see somebody giving up on achieving higher tunings.


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## Esp Griffyn (Apr 9, 2010)

I just hope it was a UK episode of Top Gear that you were watching


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## Metal Ken (Apr 9, 2010)

All that hassle is why i decided not to pursue the high A thing anymore. 

Even though those strings do work as advertised, and sound great, they're so fragile when they're not on the guitar, and it took me two of them to get them on there and in tune . I had to tie a knot in the end to get it to stick in the string block on the ZR trem on my old S-series.


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## foreverburn (Apr 9, 2010)

Adam said:


> You didnt happen to yank the string through the bridge when loading it in like most people do with regular strings? This does cause the ball end to pop off. I have been using o4p strings for 3 years now at and have never encountered any problems, I even an A4 at the 30.2" scale without issue.
> 
> Also choosing the correct bridge type(top loading/backloading) is VERY important. Have you tried contacting Garry directly instead of whoever is answering those emails? I'd really hate to see somebody giving up on achieving higher tunings.


 
I have not spoken to Garry directly. I get either Kat or Laurie, one of which has a major attitude problem, but since I started getting shitty replies from them (after not really being shitty to them) they stopped putting their name at the bottom of the email. Whoever it is has insulted my intellegence multiple times and it is because of this that I am not going to deal with them anymore. If Garry knows what is good for his company, he'll get rid of whichever one of them it is because it isn't good for a business to have someone making your customers not want to come back. 

Does anyone have Garry's email? I'd love to talk to him about this.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 9, 2010)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I just hope it was a UK episode of Top Gear that you were watching



Oh, definitely. I have pretty much everything Clarkson's done


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## Cudda_Kine (Sep 29, 2010)

Sorry if this thread is old. But I'm thinking about ordering a 005 (the thinest string they have so far). My 009 can reach an A note fairly easy. So getting a 005 on my guitar, will it reach a High C?


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## xwmucradiox (Sep 29, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> I'll ask my friend Justin (he's a guitar tech at a locally-owned shop, certainly no vaunted luthier with intentions of stealing proprietary technology and/or attempting to compete for what is undoubtedly such a HUGE market) if he still has it. Knowing the state of his bench, it might well be there... but it was over a week ago, and he could have cleaned out the area.
> 
> How the hell was I supposed to know I wasn't allowed to show my tech (who I was having help set the guitar up for these strings) what I was playing with, or leave a broken string with him?!?
> 
> ...



I certainly dont think you've done anything out of the ordinary but it seems like GG is sort of a string nazi. If you buy something you can do whatever you want with it. The notion that you need to get back a broken string you gave away to a friend is preposterous. I would just tune everything down a half step and stick with G# as your highest string. You can get there with a $0.50 .008 without having to spend $5 a string and be expected to return every string to the maker once you're done with it.

edit. damn old thread...


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## Adam (Sep 29, 2010)

Cudda_Kine said:


> Sorry if this thread is old. But I'm thinking about ordering a 005 (the thinest string they have so far). My 009 can reach an A note fairly easy. So getting a 005 on my guitar, will it reach a High C?



No, you have to buy the strings that are actually designed to that high. But they are in limited supply compared to his A4 strings. It is not alaways about size but material used.


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## Adam (Sep 29, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> I certainly dont think you've done anything out of the ordinary but it seems like GG is sort of a string nazi. If you buy something you can do whatever you want with it. The notion that you need to get back a broken string you gave away to a friend is preposterous. I would just tune everything down a half step and stick with G# as your highest string. You can get there with a $0.50 .008 without having to spend $5 a string and be expected to return every string to the maker once you're done with it.
> 
> edit. damn old thread...



Have you actually gotten a G#4 at the 28.625" scale? The highest most people can get is G4, G#4 can be obtainable on a 24 3/4" scale with a stock .007 scale but it will not last long.


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## Cudda_Kine (Sep 29, 2010)

I have my Guitar tuned to ADGCEA right now. They are all High Octaves, except the C string. That one i was hoping for a 005 to make it High Octave but is there any other string that can go to a High C? Or should I just down tune the Guitar to "A" Tuning? I will post a video


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## Cudda_Kine (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm going to email Octave4Plus.com right now. Thank you!


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## bostjan (Sep 29, 2010)

Garry was kind enough to let me try these strings as they were becoming available to the mass market.

The specimens I tried were .005" and tuned up to B4. I could not get them to C5.

They were pretty slow tuning up and working with them, but I didn't have any of the serious issues you guys have had.

On the other hand, I've taken D'Addarios up to G#4 at 25.5" without any breaks, and A4 with limited life.


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## xwmucradiox (Sep 29, 2010)

Adam said:


> Have you actually gotten a G#4 at the 28.625" scale? The highest most people can get is G4, G#4 can be obtainable on a 24 3/4" scale with a stock .007 scale but it will not last long.



I've used GHS .008s to get g and g# for years now on instruments up to 27" scale. I think trying to tune up on an extended scale instrument is ill advised in the first place but thats another discussion. 

What I dont understand is why GG only sells you a string that is strong enough for the instrument in question. What is the reasoning for doing anything other that making the strongest string that will work on the longer scale length and then using that string for everything else. He is needlessly complicating his business and product offerings in the first place. I would be interested to hear an argument against just finding the toughtest alloy that will work at these string sizes and using that for everything since you did say hes using different metals for different strings. Is that breaking down all the way to a different alloy for different scale length offerings of the same note?

I have ordered strings from him before and they did the job but they were really fragile and broke pretty quick with all the right procedures. He also wouldn't sell me enough strings to make his product feasable for a touring musician. At the time it seemed like he was really focusing on the kind of dudes that play ERGs but only at home or where they didn't need to change strings often.


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## bostjan (Sep 29, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> I've used GHS .008s to get g and g# for years now on instruments up to 27" scale. I think trying to tune up on an extended scale instrument is ill advised in the first place but thats another discussion.
> 
> What I dont understand is why GG only sells you a string that is strong enough for the instrument in question. What is the reasoning for doing anything other that making the strongest string that will work on the longer scale length and then using that string for everything else. He is needlessly complicating his business and product offerings in the first place. I would be interested to hear an argument against just finding the toughtest alloy that will work at these string sizes and using that for everything since you did say hes using different metals for different strings. Is that breaking down all the way to a different alloy for different scale length offerings of the same note?
> 
> I have ordered strings from him before and they did the job but they were really fragile and broke pretty quick with all the right procedures. He also wouldn't sell me enough strings to make his product feasable for a touring musician. At the time it seemed like he was really focusing on the kind of dudes that play ERGs but only at home or where they didn't need to change strings often.



I guess I feel pretty special that I didn't have to do anything more than tell him what gauge I wanted. 

The strings are honestly stronger than standard strings, but I couldn't tell you how much...maybe not as much as people would like. The material definately feels different...it's stiffer than regular string steel.

If there was something I needed an .008" for, I would just grab a regular D'Addario .008" for ease of use, but good luck finding a .005" or smaller.

Also, I think a lot of us tend to expect regular steel strings to break at lower tensions than they really do. An .008" at 25.5" tuned to G or even G# still has some play in it. Also, Ernie Ball has high tensile string designed for Trem Dive-Bombs (RPS) that hold a slightly higher tension than their regular product, although I think that it might be very similar to other brand's standard strings.

It seems to me that Garry only has a limited production of his high-tensile strings.


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## xwmucradiox (Sep 29, 2010)

bostjan said:


> I guess I feel pretty special that I didn't have to do anything more than tell him what gauge I wanted.
> 
> The strings are honestly stronger than standard strings, but I couldn't tell you how much...maybe not as much as people would like. The material definately feels different...it's stiffer than regular string steel.
> 
> ...



An .008 will really do a lot. Especially on a standard scale instrument which most people probably have. I have them last for weeks at G with breaks occuring only rarely and during extremely aggressive playing. I should change my strings a lot more often than that though


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## Explorer (Sep 29, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> I've used GHS .008s to get g and g# for years now on instruments up to 27" scale.



(doing a quick calculation...) 

That means you've manage to break the A4 barrier at 25.5" with a normal string. Hmm.

Given that people have been trying to get there for a few decades before O4+ strings, and that it always pops aroung G#4 or a little sharp of that, I'm sorry, but I doubt you, good sir. 

Still, I could be wrong. As you have the ability to do soundclips of the effect you build, could you toss off a quick one demonstrating a normal GHS .008 tuned to G# at 27"? That would be revolutionary, and your viewpoint would win a lot of converts, especially among those who have worked for higher tunings for years with conventional strings. 

I'm hopeful you'll knock everyone's socks off, based on my love of anyone successfully pushing boundaries.

I'm doubtful you will, based on more than two decades of string experimentation.


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## vansinn (Sep 29, 2010)

bostjan said:


> On the other hand, I've taken D'Addarios up to G#4 at 25.5" without any breaks, and A4 with limited life.



I resently tried an 008 Rotosound (what my local guitar centre had) at A4 on an old Dan Armstrong 25" scale, modded with a ToM-like Mighty Mite bridge and tailpiece, meaning strings are routed pretty direct and smooth. Bone nut and Shaller tuners at the other end.

Slowly tuned it stepwise up, letting it rest some 15-20 mins in-between.
I could bend it about one stop with ease, and grew more daring, bending 1½ stops 
Lasted a Bit more than a week before snapping, so..
I'm most certainly not going to attempt any usefulness at A4(+) with stock strings, and much less so at longer scales  (when I finally get to such coolness..)


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## bostjan (Sep 29, 2010)

Explorer, you never got a standard string up to A4 on 25.5" after twenty years?

First time I tried it I got a D'Addario .008" up to 440 Hz. The string got up to tune but didn't hold for more than a few seconds before it went super flat and snapped, but that was my first try. Some of my subsequent tries lasted much longer.


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## Hollowway (Sep 29, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> What I dont understand is why GG only sells you a string that is strong enough for the instrument in question. What is the reasoning for doing anything other that making the strongest string that will work on the longer scale length and then using that string for everything else.



My feeling exactly. Like, why not make one that can get to A4 at 30"' and then use it on a 27" guitar? I'd think it would be less likely to break that way. And to the comments about the people who answer his email, they weren't mean to me, but they also didn't answer my questions, and instead just told me Garry's strings are great. Which is fine, but that doesn't direct me in terms of what I want to order.


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## xwmucradiox (Sep 30, 2010)

Explorer said:


> (doing a quick calculation...)
> 
> That means you've manage to break the A4 barrier at 25.5" with a normal string. Hmm.
> 
> ...



Doubt me all you want but I used to play every night on tour with a guitar in that tuning and only ever broke a string maybe once or twice. I dont let my strings get old and generally change them every other night or maybe three nights. Maybe all the people that have tried before are trying to play some nonsense with lots of ridiculous bends on that high string. Im just using it to add extensions to chords and in tapping runs. The string really doesn't get that much abuse. 

I would make you a video but I dont have a 27" guitar currently in that tuning and I honestly dont have time to do it. Im out of the house from 5:30 a.m. to 10 p.m. pretty much every day since starting a new job. Barely have time for band practice and shows.


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## Cudda_Kine (Sep 30, 2010)

My Guitar is only 24" lol. It's the RO10 Washburn Rover. All are High Octaves except the C string (ADGCEA) so the email from Octave4Plus.com said I should try the 007 string first, for the High Octave C. Thanks ...!

EDIT: I know My guitar doesn't "qualify" for this thread (extended guitars) but it is an extended Ukulele. GCEA with the two extra A and D strings on the "bottom".


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## bostjan (Sep 30, 2010)

Alto-Nashville tuning


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## BR10N (Sep 30, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> My feeling exactly. Like, why not make one that can get to A4 at 30"' and then use it on a 27" guitar? I'd think it would be less likely to break that way. QUOTE]
> 
> That's actually a pretty good idea!
> Maybe I'll mention it to Garry


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## Hollowway (Oct 1, 2010)

BR10N said:


> Hollowway said:
> 
> 
> > My feeling exactly. Like, why not make one that can get to A4 at 30"' and then use it on a 27" guitar? I'd think it would be less likely to break that way. QUOTE]
> ...


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## BR10N (Oct 1, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> BR10N said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, cuz you and I are definitely going to need some O4Ps for our OAF10s. Let me know if you talk with Garry about it.
> ...


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## Hollowway (Oct 1, 2010)

BR10N said:


> Hollowway said:
> 
> 
> > I actually just got word from Tom that it would totally work! It would work for more flexability and bendability in the string. He might run a few field tests just to make sure.
> ...


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## ixlramp (Oct 6, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> What I dont understand is why GG only sells you a string that is strong enough for the instrument in question. What is the reasoning for doing anything other that making the strongest string that will work on the longer scale length and then using that string for everything else. He is needlessly complicating his business and product offerings in the first place. I would be interested to hear an argument against just finding the toughtest alloy that will work at these string sizes and using that for everything since you did say hes using different metals for different strings. Is that breaking down all the way to a different alloy for different scale length offerings of the same note?





Hollowway said:


> My feeling exactly. Like, why not make one that can get to A4 at 30"' and then use it on a 27" guitar? I'd think it would be less likely to break that way.



Good points. But AFAIK the strings and alloys have been very extensively tested, and therefore O4P know how to make the optimum string for the intended scale and open note. This has got to be a good thing for the customer


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## Explorer (Oct 6, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> definitely let us all know once you try it out, because those strings have a bit of a emperors new clothes thing about them.



Holloway, out of curiosity, when you attribute the characteristics of the Emperor's new clothes to a string, are you talking about Octave 4 Plus strings specifically?

I ask because I would think of the Emperor's new clothes as only existing in the minds and imaginations of those who don't want to admit their wrong. I have the O4+ string on three 8-strings and 4 acoustics, and they tune up to B4 at 25.5" (well, A4 at 28.625" on the Intrepid Pro). They do exist. 

xwmucradiox's experiences to the contrary, no one else has managed to tune a working string to A4 at the 25.5" scale length without it popping fairly quickly. Look at Fripp (also based near Maryland, and getting his Ovations for his courses in Frederick)... he similarly couldn't get to A for any variation of his Crafty tuning. 

I am curious, and might be in Maryland sometime in the next few months. I'd be happy to drop by one of my old hangout, Atomic Music in Beltsville, and to take a look at any 25.5" guitar which xwmucradiox has managed to sustainably tune to A4 using a regular GHS .008 string. I'm sure I'd not be the only person there interested, as several of my friends have explored this issue in the past.

When you were touring, what was the name of the group? Were you based around Baltimore or DC? It would be neat to know if your band played Jaxx or other places where someone I know might have seen you, and if you were tuned high, my friends would probably have noticed (like I said, they're interested).


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## xwmucradiox (Oct 6, 2010)

ixlramp said:


> Good points. But AFAIK the strings and alloys have been very extensively tested, and therefore O4P know how to make the optimum string for the intended scale and open note. This has got to be a good thing for the customer



We're talking about plain steel strings here. Im willing to allow for some difference between alloys but its still a single strand of wire. There isn't that much that can change.


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## xwmucradiox (Oct 6, 2010)

Explorer said:


> Holloway, out of curiosity, when you attribute the characteristics of the Emperor's new clothes to a string, are you talking about Octave 4 Plus strings specifically?
> 
> I ask because I would think of the Emperor's new clothes as only existing in the minds and imaginations of those who don't want to admit their wrong. I have the O4+ string on three 8-strings and 4 acoustics, and they tune up to B4 at 25.5" (well, A4 at 28.625" on the Intrepid Pro). They do exist.
> 
> ...



I've never claimed to tune to A. Dont know where that came from. I tuned to a high G and occasionally G# for a major third up. Someone did math and alleged that I was suggesting the string could be used for A but thats not the case at all. 

The name of my last band was Lilu Dallas. We played more in baltimore and when we played in Virginia is was places like pulaski, fredericksburg, and va. beach.

Edit &#8212; now that I think of it I tuned the stock .009 on my 2228 up to G when I got it to try a variation of drop F.


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## Adam (Oct 6, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> We're talking about plain steel strings here. Im willing to allow for some difference between alloys but its still a single strand of wire. There isn't that much that can change.



Actually due to the difference in the alloys he uses, it's quite a dramatic on terms of tension. His plain steel strings have VERY low tension for A4 and above, which allows for even one of his .011s to do A4 at the 25.5" scale. I've been using his strings for almost 4 years and still haven't looked back. No stock string can replicate the qualities his strings have. Im using one of his .006s right now on my 11 string for G#4 at 30.2" and it is stronger than the D'darrio .007 I used for the 24 3/4" to get to G#4.


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## Adam (Oct 6, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> My feeling exactly. Like, why not make one that can get to A4 at 30"' and then use it on a 27" guitar? I'd think it would be less likely to break that way. And to the comments about the people who answer his email, they weren't mean to me, but they also didn't answer my questions, and instead just told me Garry's strings are great. Which is fine, but that doesn't direct me in terms of what I want to order.



The materials used in creating A4 strings for above 29" are more expensive, he doesn't just change the gauge, he has to change the formula.


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## GJaunz (Oct 7, 2010)

I've got a .006 gauge high A string from octave4plus.com on my Schecter C-8 Blackjack (26.5" neck scale), and it's been working great for me. I think the one I've got on there is actually about six months old! It's super important that you follow the tuning directions. One thing I was very conscious of while tuning it up, was anytime I found that tightening the string wasn't causing any sort of change in pitch, I would put the guitar down for a while and come back after 20 minutes or so. I think if you take that extra precaution on top of following the directions, you'll be in good shape. Good luck!

G

p.s. Here's a recording I recently did where I definitely put my octave4plus string to the test during the guitar solo:


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2010)

Explorer said:


> Holloway, out of curiosity, when you attribute the characteristics of the Emperor's new clothes to a string, are you talking about Octave 4 Plus strings specifically?
> 
> I ask because I would think of the Emperor's new clothes as only existing in the minds and imaginations of those who don't want to admit their wrong. I have the O4+ string on three 8-strings and 4 acoustics, and they tune up to B4 at 25.5" (well, A4 at 28.625" on the Intrepid Pro). They do exist.



Yup, that's pretty much what I meant. But I'm glad to hear of your successes with them. My point in saying that was that for all of the discussion about these, it seems like Adam is invariably the only one who chimes in and says he's had a lot of success. Also when I wanted to get a low C#1 for the 10 string Tom Drinkwater is building for me, I emailed O4P, and the women that run the email told me that GG can build a string to sound C#1 at any scale length from 25.5" and up, and that scale length wasn't an issue. It sounded a little too much like magic the way they were describing it, and the fact that they said scale length didn't matter was kind of weird to wrap my head around. 

That being said, I didn't know you had experience with them. (And you know your stuff, so I trust your judgement.) So I'm glad to hear that there are people that have ordered them and used them with success (other than Adam!). That's important to me, because with a 27 - 30" 10 string on the way, I NEED O4P strings on the top and bottom, and I want them to work!


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2010)

Adam said:


> The materials used in creating A4 strings for above 29" are more expensive, he doesn't just change the gauge, he has to change the formula.



So, if I'm willing to pay the extra price, can I expect that I can get this string to A4 at 27" pretty easily? i.e. if I use the 29" string, can I tune it up like a regular string, without having to wait hours in between? I would pay extra for that, because with the string optimized for the exact scale length it seems that a lot of people have breakage trouble when trying to get to pitch. I'd rather pay a little extra and not have to worry about that.


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## Durero (Oct 7, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> I've never claimed to tune to A. Dont know where that came from. I tuned to a high G and occasionally G# for a major third up. Someone did math and alleged that I was suggesting the string could be used for A but thats not the case at all.
> 
> The name of my last band was Lilu Dallas. We played more in baltimore and when we played in Virginia is was places like pulaski, fredericksburg, and va. beach.
> 
> Edit &#8212; now that I think of it I tuned the stock .009 on my 2228 up to G when I got it to try a variation of drop F.



I don't think anyone doubts that you reached the high G at 27" scale, it's the G# at 27" that's equivalent to A at 25.5". It's extremely surprising that you've gotten GHS 8's to reach G# at 27".


Years ago I tested every string I could find and was never able to reach A at 25.5", although .009's got the closest (highest strength to weight ratio) with all the brands I tried. The O4P strings reach A# at 25" easily in my experience.

Holloway I can also confirm Adam's experience with O4P strings being easily able to reach A4 at 27".


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 7, 2010)

If the whole thing regarding using strings designed for a larger scale length lets us be a bit less anal regarding the string replacement process, I'm game. When on the road, things like sucessions of 20 minutes intervals and letting a string settle for days isn't really feasible for me, unfortunately.


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## ixlramp (Oct 7, 2010)

I suspect that when O4P sell you a string optimised for a particular scale, open note, bridge type etc., that you are indeed getting the strongest string, and least problematic setup, for those conditions.

Although using a 29" A4 string on a 27" scale seems a logical way to get more strength, i suspect that things are much more complicated than that. The 29" A4 string is probably not the strongest string for 27".

I guess it's a case of trusting in the extensive testing and optimisation process. Realising that those who have carried out years of testing know better than us with our theories.

I'm using O4P .007 bass strings on my 35" 6 string bass, tuned to E4 with no problems.


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2010)

ixlramp said:


> Although using a 29" A4 string on a 27" scale seems a logical way to get more strength, i suspect that things are much more complicated than that. The 29" A4 string is probably not the strongest string for 27".



It very well might not be the best sounding, but there is no physical reason that a string strong enough to handle a 29" scale wouldn't handle a 27" scale more easily. And I'm with Fred - I'll pay extra to have a string I can tune up faster than the typical O4P instructions.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 7, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> It very well might not be the best sounding, but there is no physical reason that a string strong enough to handle a 29" scale wouldn't handle a 27" scale more easily. And I'm with Fred - I'll pay extra to have a string I can tune up faster than the typical O4P instructions.



Though, you're forgetting relative tension.

Say the string designed for 29" scale is formulated to give tension relative to a .009" string tuned to E on a 25.5" scale. If you then use that string on a 27" scale it'll _feel_ floppy as the alloy for that string is meant to be under different forces stretched over a different length. 

As we all know, super floppy, skinny strings sound okay at the very best, and are prone to intonation and breakage issues. 

If you guys need to tune so high, consider shorter scales. It seems a bit less problematic making strings designed to go lower, at least from a strength standpoint.


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Though, you're forgetting relative tension.
> 
> Say the string designed for 29" scale is formulated to give tension relative to a .009" string tuned to E on a 25.5" scale. If you then use that string on a 27" scale it'll _feel_ floppy as the alloy for that string is meant to be under different forces stretched over a different length.



Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't consider that. I was hoping that if it was _barely_ strong enough at 29", which is seems like they are, given the special tuning-up instructions, that they'd handle 27" more easily. But yeah, I sure don't want them floppy. Maybe I'll try a couple of his string types and see what the situation is.


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## Hollowway (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok, so I emailed O4P tonight and Kat emailed me right back (which was super cool) and said that the 30" A4 string would not be any stronger than the 27" string on a 27" guitar, so it makes no sense to use one. She also said that the vast majority of people don't get any string breakage, and you pretty much have to do the overnight thing during tune up. 
Interestingly, she said as of tomorrow they won't make any more
30" A4 strings.


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## Adam (Oct 7, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Interestingly, she said as of tomorrow they won't make any more
> 30" A4 strings.



For the public


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## xwmucradiox (Oct 7, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Ok, so I emailed O4P tonight and Kat emailed me right back (which was super cool) and said that the 30" A4 string would not be any stronger than the 27" string on a 27" guitar, so it makes no sense to use one. She also said that the vast majority of people don't get any string breakage, and you pretty much have to do the overnight thing during tune up.
> Interestingly, she said as of tomorrow they won't make any more
> 30" A4 strings.



As of tomorrow? What an arbitrary time frame. This company is a fucking joke.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 8, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> As of tomorrow? What an arbitrary time frame. This company is a fucking joke.



I take it you were going to buy some on Monday. 

Why can't a company decide when it will discontinue a product that they produce?


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## SYLrules88 (Oct 8, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't consider that. I was hoping that if it was _barely_ strong enough at 29", which is seems like they are, given the special tuning-up instructions, that they'd handle 27" more easily. But yeah, I sure don't want them floppy. Maybe I'll try a couple of his string types and see what the situation is.


 
doesnt it say on the website that the scale length given for each string is the MAX recommended scale length? so using a 29" rated string on 27" would be ideal right?

sorry its late and i didnt have time to read through this whole thread


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## xwmucradiox (Oct 8, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I take it you were going to buy some on Monday.
> 
> Why can't a company decide when it will discontinue a product that they produce?



There is nothing wrong with discontinuing something. Its just really odd to tell someone that after the next day there wont be any more. If he had said , "well in that case Ill order 50 today," would they have made them? Probably not. So why not just say, "we dont make a 30" A string any more."


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## bostjan (Oct 8, 2010)

xwmucradiox said:


> There is nothing wrong with discontinuing something. Its just really odd to tell someone that after the next day there wont be any more. If he had said , "well in that case Ill order 50 today," would they have made them? Probably not. So why not just say, "we dont make a 30" A string any more."



Maybe they plan on shutting down production of them, but still have the ability to make them, you know, in case you were going to order some right then and there, before they removed the equipment that is used to make them from service.

I don't understand why you would be upset over this specific instance of a manufacturer telling you a specific piece of information, rather than glazing it over with pretty much the same number of words. 

If you don't like the product or the service, I can understand, though. 

It just seems that there is a *lot* of negativity toward O4P, and in my personal experience, I got _exactly_ what they told me I would get, which is a string that tunes up *well beyond* the yield strength of a stock string as long as you are willing to deal with a bit of a pain in the ass getting it up to pitch in the first place.


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## Adam (Oct 8, 2010)

bostjan said:


> Maybe they plan on shutting down production of them, but still have the ability to make them, you know, in case you were going to order some right then and there, before they removed the equipment that is used to make them from service.
> 
> I don't understand why you would be upset over this specific instance of a manufacturer telling you a specific piece of information, rather than glazing it over with pretty much the same number of words.
> 
> ...





He also sells A4 strings that can tune to A4 in 5 minutes now on a 25.5" type 2 instrument. (I know it's old news, but it may be new for some people)


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## xwmucradiox (Oct 8, 2010)

bostjan said:


> Maybe they plan on shutting down production of them, but still have the ability to make them, you know, in case you were going to order some right then and there, before they removed the equipment that is used to make them from service.
> 
> I don't understand why you would be upset over this specific instance of a manufacturer telling you a specific piece of information, rather than glazing it over with pretty much the same number of words.
> 
> ...




There are just various things from this thread that blow my mind about this company. I probably come across as a lot more negative than I really feel. I honestly dont care that much since I dont use their strings but all the stuff about expecting you to return your broken strings to them so no one else gets their hands on them and the customer service attitude to some people, etc... are ridiculous.


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## Hollowway (Oct 8, 2010)

I will say that they have come across a little paranoid in their emails with me. They've said that people are out to hurt their business and stuff like that. It might just be the people that do the emails, but in my discussions with them it feels like rather than getting advice or answers I end up defending why I'm asking questions, etc. Idk, just kind of a different experience compared to the typical exchange with a company.


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## Koshchei (Oct 8, 2010)

Adam said:


> He also sells A4 strings that can tune to A4 in 5 minutes now on a 25.5" type 2 instrument. (I know it's old news, but it may be new for some people)



Now if he'd just coat these like Elixir strings, I'd be set 

Of course "if he'd just coat these like Elixir strings" would involve rearranging reality to suit my impulsive whims, which is highly unlikely, but still!


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## Hollowway (Oct 8, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> Now if he'd just coat these like Elixir strings, I'd be set
> 
> Of course "if he'd just coat these like Elixir strings" would involve rearranging reality to suit my impulsive whims, which is highly unlikely, but still!



Are Elixir plain strings coated? I thought it was o ly the wrapped strings that are coated.


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## Koshchei (Oct 9, 2010)

They're plated with something that they've trademarked as "Anti-Rust". They last forever, so I've no reason to doubt them.

I can get 6 months out of a set of Elixirs -- for comparison, I got 3 days out of the GHS Eric Johnson and .059 that came with my Gary Kramer F-1 before they turned grey and lost their tone. My perspiration is like Alien blood to normal nickel-wound strings. 

Yes, I do clean my guitars thoroughly after playing with a micro-fibre cloth.


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## Hollowway (Oct 9, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> They're plated with something that they've trademarked as "Anti-Rust". They last forever, so I've no reason to doubt them.
> 
> I can get 6 months out of a set of Elixirs -- for comparison, I got 3 days out of the GHS Eric Johnson and .059 that came with my Gary Kramer F-1 before they turned grey and lost their tone. My perspiration is like Alien blood to normal nickel-wound strings.
> 
> Yes, I do clean my guitars thoroughly after playing with a micro-fibre cloth.


Yeah, me too, but I don't notice anything different with the plain strings, only the wound ones. Somebody said on here that they don't treat the plain ones any differently, that's why I wondered.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 9, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, me too, but I don't notice anything different with the plain strings, only the wound ones. Somebody said on here that they don't treat the plain ones any differently, that's why I wondered.



Nope, they coat them. I sweat through strings quickly too, so I'd know if the plain strings weren't treated.

Also,  at the thread resurrection. I ended up not giving a fuck and not bothering to use any more of the strings, then I sold the 8 because it was just too much of a tonal compromise between getting good tone on the high and low strings. Still not a huge fan of Mr. Goodman.


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## troyguitar (Oct 9, 2010)

Just pulled out some of the o4p strings I'd ordered and tried to tune my strat BbFCGDA and the .007 octave4plus string lasted all of 3 minutes tuned up to A. It worked fine for a day or so at Ab, then I got greedy and tried to use it at the advertised pitch  Also this was the second string, the first one fell apart at the ball end before I even put in on the guitar.

Tuning up to A just doesn't seem worth it, I think I'm going to stick with G in the future.


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## Koshchei (Oct 9, 2010)

Hehe - we should start a support group. "My name is Matt, and before coated strings, my playing was a $20 a week habit."

Re O4P, I think that Gary is doing some good work that's a real service to musicians who push the limit beyond a 21 fret Fender canoe paddle, but by all accounts he needs to calm the fuck down, patent his string recipe, and then expand or license.


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## BR10N (Dec 13, 2010)

Well said, Koshchei.


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## extremophileX (Jan 30, 2011)

Well, as far as high A strings go, just tried it today, tuned it up to E went to work for 6 hours then came back, then tuned to high A, and its worked perfectly for today with the 26.5 scale of the Schecter Damien, I have been surprised so far today, I thought it would explode the minute I touched it,.. they seem fine with a light touch, and light vibrato, but I if you take these live, I would advise having a back up as you always should.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

just to add my 2c worth..

I have had no trouble getting a d'addario .0085 up to A440 on a strat. Not sure how well it will last but no problems after a week.

It's extremely irritating that whenever this is mentioned someone pops up and says it can't be done. Loads of people have done it, 3 on this thread and more elsewhere. yes it required care and stretching time and good fittings.

I really want to tune my guitars CGDAEB

When I contacted octave4plus, with some intelligent and specific questions I got an email in reply that failed to answer any of my questions, implied I was lying or mistaken about getting a d'addario 0085 up to 440hz on a strat, and was generally defensive and patronising in tone.

I then replied clearly explaining that I understood the pitfalls and need for careful setup in detail, and would like to buy some strings to tune to high B and got a flat out refusal to sell me the strings. no explanation.

I may have caused offence (!) because I requested strings that would work on any one of 3 guitars from 24.75" scale up to 25.5" scale and different fittings, and that I intended to do the cotton winding or other string protection myself for each string and guitar as appropriate. This seemed sensible to me in that if a string will work on the strat with the more extreme bridge angle and termination then it should be fine on the shorter scale guitars with friendlier fittings. If they really felt that the same string could not be used in this way they should have said so, and why.

I had really hoped that octave4plus was onto something, they may well be, but they either don't understand it themselves, or are completely hopeless communicators.

From the positive experiences mentioned on this thread and others I'm sure they are better than standard strings, but even if their strings are absolutely brilliant, there's no way I can afford to become reliant on a product made by a company that behave like this.

It is not people like me making negative comments in the forums that are damaging this business it is their own paranoid, patronizing and downright rude way of dealing with customers.

I run a small music business myself. I know that at least 30% of customers will be stupid, misinformed, or expect the impossible. It can be frustrating. But that's no excuse for rude replies to straightforward enquiries!


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

> I have had no trouble getting a d'addario .0085 up to A440 on a strat. Not sure how well it will last but no problems after a week.


 
Have you tried any other gauges of d'addario strings? .007, .008? Is there any trick to getting the .0085 up to A4 on a Strat? I have a strat copy that I am going to experiment with. I worry about the nut and saddles on this guitar but those are replaceable.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Tom, I only did the things that are already well known. I put a piece of teflon wire insulation tube over the twist at the ball end to protect the string where it contacts/exits the bridge block before getting to the saddle.

I lubricated all contact points with pencil lead. 

The bridge is a wilkinson (the model with the more modern look) not sure of the number.

the string tree is smooth and well graphited of the v shaped sort that present a smooth and small area to the string, and the angle on it is not extreme. 

the tuners are schaller minis. when I have had breakages in other experiments they have been at the tuner. I have experimented with cotton wrapping the string at the tuner, and that seems to help but it wasnt needed for the 0085 at A440

I tuned to E and waited a few mins then to G and waited a few mins then very slowly up to A

I haven't tried other gauges much yet. I have tried getting the 0085 higher, but so far it breaks at the tuner, I would need to protect it more, and I doubt it will go much higher in any case..

I have a 007 up to A on my les paul, with similar precautions plus cotton wrap at the tuner end, it feels much more fragile than the 0085, though i'm not sure that that perception means much. I am going to try getting the 007 up to B on the LP, but i'm fairly sure it will snap.

others have reported getting an 009 up to A440 on standard guitars. it seems that around 009 is the best weight to strength ratio for standard strings. I think I got an 009 up to A once many years ago... I havent tried yet this time around as the 0085 was working fine.

d'addario also make a trem string with soldered twist, I have done soldering the twist myself, but since I've never broken a string at the ball end anyway i'm not sure if its needed. I do wonder if the wire on the d'addario soldered twist strings is any better than standard.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

it is said by octave4plus and others that it is better (less strain on the string somehow) if the distance from the nut to the tuner is short.

Tom, as a luthier do you have an opinion about this?

I can't see why it should make any difference if the nut is well lubricated.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

I think it does make a difference but that is only my opinion. My view comes from my years as a rope rescue instructor with the Army though and not so much with guitar strings. The more material you need to span a gap the more force you need to achieve the desired tension. Rope is like string in that tension will affect it along its entire length but even more so over the shorter secondary spans like a nut to tuner while you are applying force to the entire length. Naturally I would assume that if the entire string is perfectly uniform along it's whole length (which of course like a rope it isn't perfect) it would most likely break at areas of high friction ie the nut or saddle. Graphite dust does a good job at reducing friction even while the string is most likely stretching unevenly at these points. The most likely place to break after that is somewhere in the secondary span close to the area where the force is being applied which in this case is at the tuner. Then you have to account for a countless number of variables. I think that a perfect set up would be where the tuner is very close to the nut and there is minimal break angle between the nut and tuner.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

I should have mentioned that by having a shorter distance between the tuner and nut you have essentiall lessened the need for additional force in order to reach the desired tension along the whole length of the string and should reduce the chance that the string will break.


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## Explorer (Feb 5, 2011)

Zoukophone, that's amazing! I've been trying to get a string up to A4 at 25.5" for more than 20 years, before O4+ came out! You being able to do that consistently is just amazing!

Being as hundreds of other musicians have tried to do the same thing, and as they've all failed, you should post at least one video on YouTube or a similar place showing your success with that. You'll turn engineering science on its head. 

I, for one, am completely psyched at the idea of seeing someone having succeeded at this. I can understand the O4+ people being sceptical... especially since it is the experience and the math that predict that it is impossible to tune higher than G#4 at 25.5" for any length of time. 

I can't wait to see it....


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

> The bridge is a wilkinson (the model with the more modern look) not sure of the number.


 
If you have the VS100 style I may be able to help you out. I devised a saddle cap that allows for top loading strings and it seems to help with tuning speed. Let me know what you have and I will send you a cap.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Explorer - what exactly would you want such a video to show?

I'm a bit unclear what a video achieves that I haven't already explained, but I'd be totally willing to do one if you can tell me how it helps and what it should show. Should it show the whole process of stringing the instrument or just the finished result?

please note that I don't claim any credit for doing what some others think is impossible, I just tried it carefully and it worked. Also that I'm not claiming that the strings will always work or how long they will last.

So far I have got 2 .0085 strings up to A on the strat, and one 0085 and one 007 as mentioned on the LP. None have broken before they got to A. the first 2 0085s broke when I tried to get them even higher. I might have just got an unusually good batch of strings - no way to tell, and a weeks trial of at-home playing doesnt really prove that this would work professionally. So far so good though, I'm pretty sure it will be OK.

All that said, I'd rather be experimenting with a higher grade of wire, if possible. I'd still really like a high B string as changing to all 5th has been a breakthrough for me.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Tom, no its not the very modern looking VS100 but the WVP6

solid stainless steel saddles

looks like this

http://www.applestone-music.co.uk/contents/media/WVPC.jpg


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The more material you need to span a gap the more force you need to achieve the desired tension. .




this seems wrong to me. it is at odds with the string tension calculation formula I have used for many years - can you say why? 

what is the difference between force and tension in this case? is not the relevant force exactly the tension along the length of the rope/string?

are you thinking of tension at 90 degrees to the string? ie resistance to deflection? certainly the length affects that because of stretching and that's relevant to feel, but not to breaking strain as far as I can see.

I think that during tuning up, the string from the nut to the tuner is under greater tension than the playing part of the string, and the difference is defined by the friction on the nut. But that difference should equalise once the string is settled in and with a good nut it should be minimal in the first place. In any case that difference will be the same regardless of the length of the nut to tuner portion of string.

Another possibility why it might matter is that when the string is bent during playing it will slide through the nut, and the longer the length of string between the nut and tuner the more it will stretch, the less effective the bend will be, and most importantly the more length of string will be dragged through the nut on each bend, changing the distribution of metal fatigue and maybe increasing other stresses on the string that aren't related just to linear tension.

If this is so then I would expect nut to tuner distance to have an impact on string longevity, but not on the ability to get the string to pitch in the first place. 

Any thoughts? Have I missed something?


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes, deflection is the term I am looking for instead of tension in the case of applying more force to acheive less deflection across the length of the string. Force is what is applied to the string and tension is the result of that force acting upon the string. More material ie. string length would need great force applied to achieve the same tension, right? There is a formula that we used but that was a looooong time ago. I know that this certainly applies with rope. Considering that the examples I have used are on a much larger scale than guitar strings I don't know how relevant they are. 

Cool looking bridge.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi Tom, I think you are using the word tension differently from most string manufacturers.

When a maker quotes a string tension at a given pitch and scale of , say 11lbs, they mean the force/tension along the length of the string. This is defined by the mass of the string, the active length forming the pitch, and it's pitch - nothing else.

the formula is:

Tension in Kg = 4 x Frequency in Hz squared x Length in cm x Mass of that length in grams / 980621

The sideways deflection force, which is what the player perceives as stiffness or floppiness, is a separate thing and it depends on the linear tension as described above , combined with the elasticity of the string, and its length.

I have never seen a quoted figure for resistance to deflection or stiffness, probably because (I assume) it's very non linear, the force used to deflect (bend) the string 1cm at the 12 fret will be different from the extra force required to deflect it a further 1cm, it will also be different at different distances from the ends of the string. So to give any meaningful data would require measuring and publishing a complex collection of curves.

2 different strings can have identical pitch, scale length, and linear tension, but different stiffness depending on the elasticity of the string.

and yes you are quite right that a longer string will deflect sideways more easily, simply because there is more length to stretch.

in fact although the distance from tuner to nut is irrelevant to the linear tension at a given pitch, if the nut is well lubricated it affects the sideways stiffness, since the length that stretches is the whole length from the tuner to the ball end whereas the length that determines the pitch and linear tension is only from the bridge saddle to the nut.

the thing is, sideways stiffness is not relevant to breaking strain although it affects feel, linear tension is the main consideration for breaking strain once actual damage to the string from sharp edges etc has been eliminated.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Tom, would your top mounting string holder work on my bridge or only on a VS100?


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 5, 2011)

The cap only works on the VS100 because the saddles are held down with a screw through the top. I just get a slightly longer screw to go through both the cap and the saddle and the cap holds the string ball in the saddle. Works like a charm. I haven't yet come up with a top loading solution for saddles like the ones on more typical strat bridges. There are a couple of ideas that are floating around in my head but nothing solid yet.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

cool nice idea!

for regular bridges it could be a whole replacement saddle that only gets used on the problem strings, ie the top one. 

but I don't have any design ideas.

it would be difficult to get the ball end far enough from the saddle point to accommodate the twist length on most strings.


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## Hollowway (Feb 5, 2011)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The cap only works on the VS100 because the saddles are held down with a screw through the top. I just get a slightly longer screw to go through both the cap and the saddle and the cap holds the string ball in the saddle. Works like a charm. I haven't yet come up with a top loading solution for saddles like the ones on more typical strat bridges. There are a couple of ideas that are floating around in my head but nothing solid yet.



I can vouch for this. Tom put one of these caps on my O4P A4 at 27" (on the 10 string he built me) and the guitar shipped wrapped in bubble wrap and has been played with zero problems for the past week. I think that eliminating the saddle break angle is key in keeping these things alive. I just think the idea is brilliant.


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## Explorer (Feb 5, 2011)

Just to clarify, I was interested in seeing a normal string which would work for A4 at 25.5", and seeing videos to that effect would make me consider restarting that exploration.

It's funny, though... this whole thread has a lot of posts from people who couldn't even make the O4+ strings work for A4 at 25.5". 

So, putting all their experiences alongside mine since at least 1985, I would love to see someone else's experience made tangible, so I could know that someone had managed where I've failed for over 25 years. It's just more convincing than words on a webpage. I'm ready to believe, but always thought there was a reason for those, "pics or it didn't happen!" tags which people sometimes insert. 

Cheers!


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## Durero (Feb 5, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> Explorer - what exactly would you want such a video to show?



I've had a similar experience to Explorer  20 years ago I tried every string I could find to reach A4 at 25.5" scale and nothing made it. It still shocks me every time someone claims to reach it with a non O4P string (which I've had good experiences with tuned up to Bb4 at 25.5" by the way - never tried B4 though.)

A video just showing someone taking a string out of it's package and tuning up to A4 with a tuner would be really encouraging to see.


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## troyguitar (Feb 5, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Just to clarify, I was interested in seeing a normal string which would work for A4 at 25.5", and seeing videos to that effect would make me consider restarting that exploration.



I think something like Tom's little cap might make it possible with a regular .007 but my suspicion is that it still would be unstable at best. I might try it sometime this year as I use the same Graph Tech saddles as Tom for my current bridges.


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## zoukophone (Feb 5, 2011)

Durero said:


> A video just showing someone taking a string out of it's package and tuning up to A4 with a tuner would be really encouraging to see.



it would have to have gaps in the video while the string stretches... it's not like anyone is claiming you can just put it on and tune straight up.

I can't think of any way to make a video that would actually prove that it works, it would be easy to fake, but why would anyone want to?

nevertheless I'll see what I can do in terms of a vid in the next few days.


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## Durero (Feb 5, 2011)

A clock in the viewframe could show the stretching periods you use and would be a fantastic visual demonstration of how to put on strings for these high tunings regardless of which brand you use. 

I've seen the stretching-in process described so many times in text but it'd a great help to the ERG community to have a video to link to in my opinion.


As Explorer has also said, I'm ready to be a believer, and for me this is mostly a matter of inspiration and encouragement, but it's also the type of issue that is constantly being asked about over and over again here and such a video would be widely useful as a reference.


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## vansinn (Feb 5, 2011)

I've been following this discussion, and also the other one thread in the Luthierie section with empirical data in it: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...ing-up-daddario-007-008-0085-experiences.html
As I wrote in this one, I had a RotoSound 008 working at A4 on a 25" Dan Armstrong for a week, complete with about one stop bendings.

As has been mentioned by others, I likewise believe the amount of extra string length from anchor to saddle and from nut to tuner, plays in.

This spurred an idea.. I measured the total string length on my 25" Armstrong.
Back in the days, it was modified with a Mighty Mite ToM-like bridge and tailpiece, resulting in some extra string length.
From tailpiece to tuner I have just about 29.9".
So, an ordinary 008 made it to A4 for a week on a total of ~30 inches.

Now, some modern bridges have very little string length from bridge saddle to ball end.
I'm searching for an RGA8, and looked at how much less string length is from saddle to ball on that bridge (plus the strings is routed pretty direct with minimum bendings).
Distance from nut to tuner looks roughly the same on both instruments.

It looks to me like the RGA8's distance from saddle to tailpiece is roughly 1.5" less than on my Armstrong, so if I subtract this from the ~30" total on the Armstrong and add the 2" scale difference, the RGA8 should have roughly 30.5" total string length.
This I find interesting, if you know what I mean..


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## Durero (Feb 5, 2011)

vansinn said:


> the other one with empirical data in it.


Link?


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## vansinn (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...ing-up-daddario-007-008-0085-experiences.html (added to my former post)

One more thing.. while it seems by far hardly noone has had 009 strings make it to A4, and a few has had 008's and 0085's do it, it could be that while an 008 can do it, the 0085 may just have that little more breakage strength, and still be able stretch enough to make it; in other words, the 0085 could be the most suitable for the task.
I'm merely speculating on this, but will acquire a few 0085's to experiment with..


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## Durero (Feb 6, 2011)

Great! Thanks for the link vansinn, I don't know how I managed to miss that thread - this is an important issue for me.

When I tried to reach A4 at 25.5" years ago it was the .009's that performed best. They reached just under A4 before snapping.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 6, 2011)

Pushing the envelope!!! This is what I like to see!!


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## zoukophone (Feb 6, 2011)

for me, all this messing about with standard strings is a bit of a distraction. clearly to get a high B I will need something special.

o4p have ruled themselves out, so are there any other sources of strings with higher grade wire?

is anyone here regularly and successfully tuning to high B? if so please let us know all the details!


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## zoukophone (Feb 6, 2011)

I have made a video. it is 10 mins long and reeeeaally boring.

I'm just trying to get the file size down to an uploadable level and I will post it on vimeo


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## Durero (Feb 6, 2011)

Haha - I'm very much looking forward to your boring video zoukophone


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## zoukophone (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok, is there an award for most boring video?

Tuning a string up to A 440hz on a strat on Vimeo


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## Durero (Feb 6, 2011)

Wonderful! I watched the whole thing with baited breath 

I share your belief that the many winds around the tuner post seems to help reduce the chances of breakage on the sharp corner of the post-hole.


I see why you'd like a B4 string to complete your 5ths tuning scheme. I'm sure that O4P strings could reach that pitch and for your < 25.5" scale guitars they should last indefinitely at B4. It's a real shame they don't want to sell you strings!?


Thanks so much for making and posting that video 
I'm re-inspired to experiment with high tunings again.


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## LordCashew (Feb 6, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> Ok, is there an award for most boring video?
> 
> Tuning a string up to A 440hz on a strat on Vimeo



Awesome!

I love how the tuner app picks up the inflection in your speech.


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## Explorer (Feb 6, 2011)

For the motherfucking win!

That was awesome!

Points which I'll have to take under consideration:

There wasn't a lot of string deflection going on. Other than the well-padded string-through thing, there wasn't a lot of dragging of the string across any edges which were severely angled. 

The liberal use of graphite was also interesting, not just as the contact points, but also along the string length which would be drawn through those contact points. 

And, as has been mentioned, the winding of more than just a nominal amount of string around the machine. 

I'm going to have to email this to my instrument tech. 

Thanks, friend!


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## ixlramp (Feb 6, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> o4p have ruled themselves out, so are there any other sources of strings with higher grade wire?



Someone on this forum is developing high tuned strings, but I can't remember where I saw the post! I do remember they claimed better performance than O4P. Perhaps they'll see this thread and respond ...


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## ixlramp (Feb 6, 2011)

vansinn said:


> I'm searching for an RGA8, and looked at how much less string length is from saddle to ball on that bridge



The RGA8 has a fixed trem bridge, the strings go into locking blocks immediately behind the saddle.


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## vansinn (Feb 7, 2011)

^ yup, that's exactly my point WRT tuning higher: very little additional string length plus the saddles having a nice soft taper for the string to glide off.
Now, if a mini tuner could be placed very close to the nut, the total string length would be minimized to what's physically possible..


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## ixlramp (Feb 7, 2011)

Explorer said:


> there wasn't a lot of dragging of the string across any edges which were severely angled. [ ... ] And, as has been mentioned, the winding of more than just a nominal amount of string around the machine.



Okay, how about winding the string onto the tuner post upwards from the hole, instead of downwards? The break angle over the nut will be smaller. Since the string is at a low tension the extra leverage on the tuner post won't be a problem.


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## zoukophone (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm glad the video was helpful. thanks to those who have watched and commented.


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## zoukophone (Feb 7, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> Okay, how about winding the string onto the tuner post upwards from the hole, instead of downwards? The break angle over the nut will be smaller. Since the string is at a low tension the extra leverage on the tuner post won't be a problem.



on a strat winding up the post would actually increase the angle on the string tree without affecting the nut angle (which is defined only by the string tree height) so would be counter productive, though it might be useful on other guitars. good idea although I don't think it's needed.

you do need some break angle though or the string won't terminate effectively at the nut and will rattle or cause weird harmonics.

personally I think a normal nut break angle should be fine as long as the floor of the nut slot is curved so that the whole angle is not instantaneous, and as long as there are no rough surfaces or sharp edges.

tension on a 0085 at 25.5" at 440hz is 9.48 Kg - not especially low

for comparison a .011" at E is 8.907 Kg


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## bachandroll (Feb 7, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> Someone on this forum is developing high tuned strings, but I can't remember where I saw the post! I do remember they claimed better performance than O4P. Perhaps they'll see this thread and respond ...


 
Here is the thread with my thoughts:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/143179-rga8-garrys-strings.html#post2290661


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## ixlramp (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks bachandroll


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## zoukophone (Feb 9, 2011)

last night I got a d'addario 007 tuned up to B on my les paul

it had been tuned to A for about a week, so was well stretched. 

it lasted 5 mins testing last night, overnight, and 10mins playing just now, then snapped at the bridge saddle while playing.

I'm amazed it got as far as it did. it felt very thin and tight.

next steps for me are trying an 008, and a graphite bridge saddle.

does anyone make .0075" strings? I haven't seen any for sale.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Feb 9, 2011)

Great video! I was wondering about doing this to my Les Paul but I will definitely need to get a graphtech bridge (or at least the saddles) before I try it. I loved the wire insulation trick as well as the graphite from the pencil, both great tips.


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## ixlramp (Feb 9, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> last night I got a d'addario 007 tuned up to B on my les paul









I tune in fifths too. I'm amazed you can resist tuning to BbFCGDA.


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## AcousticMinja (Feb 9, 2011)

That video scared me. Every time I hear a string go past F, I wince because I'm expecting a huge nuclear explosion from the string and having it nailing me in the eye. More to the point, that was very informative. I've got to try this sometime


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## zoukophone (Feb 9, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> I tune in fifths too. I'm amazed you can resist tuning to BbFCGDA.



well it has occurred to me, but I'm sceptical about how useful the low Bb will be, my low C is already a bit flabby sounding.

what gauge are you using for low Bb? I'm using 52 or 54 for C I think, but I may increase it, I use 61 for C on acoustic.

also I play bouzouki / cittern tuned CGDAE so I like keeping them the same, though I guess there's always a capo.


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## zoukophone (Feb 9, 2011)

when I replaced the broken 007 on the LP, I put a 008 on, and tuned it up to A440 without problems in less than 10 mins of stretching time. When i get a moment, I will see how much higher I can get it.... and where it breaks


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## BR10N (Feb 9, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> When i get a moment, I will see how much higher I can get it.... and where it breaks


 
...SNAP! Hehe.


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## Durero (Feb 9, 2011)

That's a very exciting development zoukophone - keep us posted


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## ixlramp (Feb 9, 2011)

zoukophone said:


> well it has occurred to me, but I'm sceptical about how useful the low Bb will be, my low C is already a bit flabby sounding.
> 
> what gauge are you using for low Bb? I'm using 52 or 54 for C I think, but I may increase it, I use 61 for C on acoustic.
> 
> also I play bouzouki / cittern tuned CGDAE so I like keeping them the same, though I guess there's always a capo.



Ahh ... just detune the bouzouki and cittern 

Or perhaps tune your guitar FCGDAE   with the right string low F can work.

Er well i don't own a guitar at the moment, i have fretless bass as a baritone in fifths A1 E B F# 65 40 25w 14p. My 6 string fretted bass was E1 B F# C# G# D#4 70 45 28w 16p 10p 7p(O4P).

I recommend at least a 60 for C, and a 68 for Bb (for the same tension). Low B strings in sets are usually under-tensioned, looser than the others, they should actually be at least as tight as the other wound strings. My understanding is big gauges have more mass and are therefore more prone to flop and need a higher tension to keep that mass in check, vibrating tightly.


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## zoukophone (Feb 24, 2011)

I've been playing with .008s but I haven't managed to get them up to B yet.

they seem possibly lower quality than the .0085s I have, different batch, or are the half gauges made better?

I've swapped some saddles for graphtech ones, but the difference for breakage seems minimal, I quite like the sound though.


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## Durero (Feb 24, 2011)

This is still on your Les Paul? How close are you getting before breakage?


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## zoukophone (Feb 24, 2011)

Durero said:


> This is still on your Les Paul? How close are you getting before breakage?



I'm getting to round about Bb with the 008s

I have had a variety of different breakage points, all on a stress point, trying to improve all the stress points, but I think really it's not ever going to work well enough to use. I might get a string up to B, but I doubt it will last.

A is no problem,but B really seems to be over the edge for normal 008s

I get bored with breaking strings and having to prepare a new one with cotton winding and soldering the twist and putting heatshrink around the ball end etc. so I'm not experimenting all that fast. Though I haven't tried every possible precaution yet.

I've tried on my epi LP and also on my 25" scale peavey firenza, both now with graphtech saddles. I might have one more go with the 008s on each of those guitars now, and if they break again go back to A with an 0085 until I can find a different type of string to try.


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## Durero (Feb 24, 2011)

Sounds like you could really use a multi-scale (fanned-fret) guitar with a 26" to 24" fan or thereabout.


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## zoukophone (Feb 24, 2011)

Durero said:


> Sounds like you could really use a multi-scale (fanned-fret) guitar with a 26" to 24" fan or thereabout.




absolutely. I have one in mind. no funds really, but I will probably commission or build one at some point.

I have built multiscale instruments before, but I no longer have a workshop.


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## Guitarguy77 (Feb 23, 2013)

zoukophone said:


> Ok, is there an award for most boring video?
> 
> Tuning a string up to A 440hz on a strat on Vimeo


 What is the scale length of the intrument?


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## Oscar Stern (Feb 14, 2022)

Adam said:


> Yes, but I ws just clearing up any confusion about the string being fragile and/or faulty. Like I mentioned he should contact Leo about it since he is the only one I know of who has the most experience with Garry's strings at the 28.625"-30" scale.


I think a Low F# would sound better cause the longer scale makes it sound punchier


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## Oscar Stern (Feb 14, 2022)

TemjinStrife said:


> DISCLAIMER: Apparently, after talking with Garry, I ordered the improper strings; since my instrument was a string-thru-body guitar, and I did not specify it as such, I did not get strings optimized for string-thru-body and thus this probably has an effect on the following review.
> 
> With that said, here is the original text.
> 
> ...


Why not use a Keyboard amp w/ the Low F#? The Low F# takes advantage of the Longer scale length.


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## Tree (Feb 14, 2022)

Alright, I’m officially convinced this is on purpose.


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