# BareKnuckle new line?



## Zado (Jan 23, 2018)

Some will like this






"bareknucklepickupsofficial"_I’ve long wanted to design a stripped back, no-nonsense pickup range aimed at guitar players of all levels who just want to cut to the chase and have great tone. 
3 output ranges - 4 types of pickup. It’s as easy as that, with all the core options taken care of. Handwound at the Bare Knuckle workshops and warrantied for life. No more excuses. Get your tone in shape. Welcome to the world of Bare Knuckle Boot Camp." Tim Mills, BKP Founder/MD.

Boot Camp Pickups.
Launching at NAMM Show 2018. 
January 25th-28th._


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 23, 2018)

interesting. curious to see what the price point is and if these are new models, or just old ones that they've relabeled to make pickup swaps easier for non-gear nerds (ie HOT MODERN, NOT HOT, PAF, etc).


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 23, 2018)

Cheaper no nonsense line? Interesting. This is shaping up to be an exciting namm


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 23, 2018)

Tim's answer to the daily "What BKP should I get" email. 

If its 4 pickups then i'd imagine they would be designed, Contemporary Hot like the Ragnarok/War Pig, Contemporary like the Nailbomb/Holy Diver, Vintage Hot like the Black Dog/VHII, Vintage like the Mule or Riff Raff. Smart idea!


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 23, 2018)

or an indirect admission that the middle section of his lineup is confusing and all sounds same. hehe.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Jan 23, 2018)




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## Curt (Jan 23, 2018)

Certainly interesting. I hope that the humbuckers, particuarly whatever the hotter ones end up being like have options for ERGs, because I think it'd be cool to throw a set in this agile 8 string I have on the way.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jan 23, 2018)

Color me interested! I've got a lot of pickups to run through in the coming months so might as well add a couple more to the lineup. Seems like an attempt to streamline options, i.e. less customizing and descriptions to get to a button push order. Good tag line by Tim and crew as well.


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## Frostbite (Jan 23, 2018)

AkiraSpectrum said:


>


Kind of off topic by Rabea is such an under rated player. Dude is so versatile


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## marcwormjim (Jan 24, 2018)

Tim Mills said:


> _I’ve long wanted to design a stripped back, no-nonsense pickup range aimed at guitar players of all levels who just want to cut to the chase and have great tone._



You did. It was called “Bare Knuckle Pickups”, and was a well-regarded competitor to Wilkinson for cheap pickups in the UK. Then a certain djent player with an American audience started a hype train that directly led to high import costs of your budget pickup-brand, which put them into the “boutique” price range of two to four times the MAP of established brands producing pickups for decades longer and at far larger volumes. Then transatlantic demand spiking beyond the supply capabilities of an English garage inflated the bubble further, necessitating regular releases of artist signature pickups in laser-engraved and file-marred burnt nickel covers, marketed as the second coming of Christ to sustain hype free from exchange rates.

Any word on whether these are Artec?


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## Curt (Jan 24, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> You did. It was called “Bare Knuckle Pickups”, and was a well-regarded competitor to Wilkinson for cheap pickups in the UK. Then a certain djent player with an American audience started a hype train that directly led to high import costs of your budget pickup-brand, which put them into the “boutique” price range of two to four times the MAP of established brands producing pickups for decades longer and at far larger volumes. Then transatlantic demand spiking beyond the supply capabilities of an English garage inflated the bubble further, necessitating regular releases of artist signature pickups in laser-engraved and file-marred burnt nickel covers, marketed as the second coming of Christ to sustain hype free from exchange rates.
> 
> Any word on whether these are Artec?


I can't love this post enough. BKP does make some wonderful pickups. But the idea that they are on this untouchable level is little more than a hype train that just keeps rolling. That said, with the pickups I'm preferring these days, it's getting up into BKP territory price wise now (The Fishman Moderns are my current favorite pickups).


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## marcwormjim (Jan 24, 2018)

They started as a no-nonsense brand. Had a lot of growth. Now they’re releasing a no-nonsense product line. What kind of nonsense happened between? I assume the NAMM surprise will be a signature pickup finished in satin because it “resonates better.”


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> You did. It was called “Bare Knuckle Pickups”, and was a well-regarded competitor to Wilkinson for cheap pickups in the UK. Then a certain djent player with an American audience started a hype train that directly led to high import costs of your budget pickup-brand, which put them into the “boutique” price range of two to four times the MAP of established brands producing pickups for decades longer and at far larger volumes. Then transatlantic demand spiking beyond the supply capabilities of an English garage inflated the bubble further, necessitating regular releases of artist signature pickups in laser-engraved and file-marred burnt nickel covers, marketed as the second coming of Christ to sustain hype free from exchange rates.
> 
> Any word on whether these are Artec?



Are the uncovered pickups really that expensive. Not their fault everyone wants to order the hand rubbed dry aged gold flake covers.

But this line makes no sense. Because it’s just four more pickups.


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## marcwormjim (Jan 24, 2018)

Tim deserves all the success in the world for both winding terrific pickups and stumbling onto a consumer base that confuses buying a pickup for a personal achievement. But that press release is open to all kinds of eye-rolling ridicule.


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## Hollowway (Jan 24, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> Tim deserves all the success in the world for both winding terrific pickups and stumbling onto a consumer base that confuses buying a pickup for a personal achievement. But that press release is open to all kinds of eye-rolling ridicule.



If you were running for president, you'd have my vote. All of these posts are spot on. If I hear one more person say, "I'm buying guitar X - does anyone know if Ragnaroks will fit directly in, or do I have to route? I'm going to pull the stock pickups out immediately," I'm going to lose my shit. Sometimes I wonder if people actually believe the latest thing will answer their prayers, or if they just want to be doing what everyone else is doing, and are well aware the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.


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## Curt (Jan 24, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> If you were running for president, you'd have my vote. All of these posts are spot on. If I hear one more person say, "I'm buying guitar X - does anyone know if Ragnaroks will fit directly in, or do I have to route? I'm going to pull the stock pickups out immediately," I'm going to lose my shit. Sometimes I wonder if people actually believe the latest thing will answer their prayers, or if they just want to be doing what everyone else is doing, and are well aware the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.


That's kind of where I'm at on things. I used to be pretty bad about that. I can understand if the guitar comes with bottom of the barrel no name pickups, but I see people buy expensive guitars and immediately pull the pickups without so much as plugging the guitar in first. I actually found a few pickups I really liked when I stopped impulsively loading EMGs into every guitar I bought. lol


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## angl2k (Jan 24, 2018)

I love BKP and the customer service is excellent. But I don't agree with the massive price jump lately and the fact that they won't do EMG sized soapbars  The mounting screws won't line up.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 24, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> They started as a no-nonsense brand. Had a lot of growth. Now they’re releasing a no-nonsense product line. What kind of nonsense happened between? I assume the NAMM surprise will be a signature pickup finished in satin because it “resonates better.”


That's exactly why a brand's marketing should never state that they're releasing a "no-nonsense product". Makes your other products look like, well... ehrm.. nonsense.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2018)

Marc nailed it. As much as I like bare knuckles (mostly just the black dog right now) they're not significantly better than other boutique brands I've tried, and for the price they command anymore, I'd rather buy a pile of used pickups instead of one set of 300$+ pickups. Hopefully these boot camp pickups are priced a bit more reasonably.


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## lurè (Jan 24, 2018)

This is probably going to be like their "standard series" you'll find on some major brand's guitars (Ibanez, Gibson, Jackson .....)


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Marc nailed it. As much as I like bare knuckles (mostly just the black dog right now) they're not significantly better than other boutique brands I've tried, and for the price they command anymore, I'd rather buy a pile of used pickups instead of one set of 300$+ pickups. Hopefully these boot camp pickups are priced a bit more reasonably.



people should stop buying the 300 dollar bkps.


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

dbl


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## Edika (Jan 24, 2018)

My first Bareknuckle pickup, which of course I bought used as I wasn't going to buy it on a new price, solved some of the issues with the guitar I had but it hasn't magically elevated the sound in some mythical point. It doesn't sound any better or clearer than my Seymour Duncans, Dimarzios, EMG's or even my Carvin C22's. It has a specific character and I like it but I still feel I paid too much as a used pickup (more or less new price of some Dimarzio's).

Since I discovered Bareknuckles they were never cheaper than any production big brand manufacturer. They were either 10-15% more expensive or the same price with some newer SD, Dimarzio and EMG models. There some UK people winding their pickups which are cheaper still but prices are increasing as they've riding the BPK gravy train.


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## Demiurge (Jan 24, 2018)

If it's simplifying product names that's alright, but I dunno- if you're buying boutique wouldn't your tastes be discriminating enough where you're not one to be beguiled by the standard line's funky, non-descriptive names?


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## lurè (Jan 24, 2018)

BKP were the first to introduce pickups which had particular features (articulation, attack, note separation...) due to their particular pickup contruction.
If this wasn't important years ago, with the "advent" of ERG and more people leading towards downtuned instruments, these features had become a kind of "standard" for musicians aiming for a certain sound and that were not satisfied with the old pre-eq pickups of major brands.
Certain people couldn't care less of these features and are happy with "classic" pickups configurations.
Others prefer to have a more articulate pickup, a pickup with more attack or note separation, and are fine to pay 300$ for a pickup that reaches the goal.
It's just a matter of preferences after all.
Every pickup does the same job, it's just how you want the job to be done.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2018)

Demiurge said:


> If it's simplifying product names that's alright, but I dunno- if you're buying boutique wouldn't your tastes be discriminating enough where you're not one to be beguiled by the standard line's funky, non-descriptive names?


exactly. I just want to know which pickups are in the old-guard video posted earlier in the thread now. I'd guess it's the more vintage flavored pickups like mississippi queen, mule, abraxas, irish tour, etc.


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## narad (Jan 24, 2018)

lurè said:


> BKP were the first to introduce pickups which had particular features (articulation, attack, note separation...) due to their particular pickup contruction.
> If this wasn't important years ago, with the "advent" of ERG and more people leading towards downtuned instruments, these features had become a kind of "standard" for musicians aiming for a certain sound and that were not satisfied with the old pre-eq pickups of major brands.
> Certain people couldn't care less of these features and are happy with "classic" pickups configurations.
> Others prefer to have a more articulate pickup, a pickup with more attack or note separation, and are fine to pay 300$ for a pickup that reaches the goal.
> ...



That's all bullshit. BKP didn't introduce pickups with particular features. They introduced _marketing,_ which assigned words to these already-existing characteristics.


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## Curt (Jan 24, 2018)

lurè said:


> BKP were the first to introduce pickups which had particular features (articulation, attack, note separation...) due to their particular pickup contruction.
> If this wasn't important years ago, with the "advent" of ERG and more people leading towards downtuned instruments, these features had become a kind of "standard" for musicians aiming for a certain sound and that were not satisfied with the old pre-eq pickups of major brands.
> Certain people couldn't care less of these features and are happy with "classic" pickups configurations.
> Others prefer to have a more articulate pickup, a pickup with more attack or note separation, and are fine to pay 300$ for a pickup that reaches the goal.
> ...


They *really* didn't though. Off the top of my head I can name pickups that are just as well suited to those things as any other pickup. A lot of prog metal dudes on the BKP hype train started going on about how special BKP is because their moderate output stuff was so good for clarity, note separation and articulation in heavy music, but the Duncan SH-5 custom has been around forever and is every bit as good in those regards, as it's basically a hot PAF style pickup. The GFS Crunchy Pat I had ages ago also was very good with note separation and articulation. These aren't mythical qualities only found in pickups that cost as much as some of the guitars that you'll find people stuffing them into. While they have some pickups with unique characters, so does every other brand. Like the Warpig, that pickup is cool because it's a very good pickup for brighter guitars if you want a really round high end, and it remains tight in the low end. But Dimarzio has a similar kind of thing going now with the Dave Davidson Imperium pickups.


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## Zado (Jan 24, 2018)

[it's] _a new line of no-nonsense, stripped back pickups that have all core options chosen already and will be available through our registered dealers. Launching this weekend at NAMM._

In other words they're hype impregnated pickups


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## Matt08642 (Jan 24, 2018)

lurè said:


> BKP were the first to introduce pickups which had particular features (articulation, attack, note separation...) due to their particular pickup contruction.
> If this wasn't important years ago, with the "advent" of ERG and more people leading towards downtuned instruments, these features had become a kind of "standard" for musicians aiming for a certain sound and that were not satisfied with the old pre-eq pickups of major brands.



This is possibly one of the most uninformed posts I've ever seen lmao.

Then again, we have major artists running around here talking about tone paint so


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## lurè (Jan 24, 2018)

I honestly haven't find any of these characteristics as pronounced as BKP in any other "old" pickups that i've had.
If they are marketing their pickups as fast,articulate, exc... I hear these features in every bkp i have or have tried in the past.
In my opinion this more of a distinct characteristic of their pickups instead of a pure marketing strategy.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 24, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Sometimes I wonder if people actually believe the latest thing will answer their prayers, or if they just want to be doing what everyone else is doing, and are well aware the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.



This is the kind of marketing that has caused the pickup industry to explode in recent years. Its been drove into guitarists heads recently that they need to have a set of Ragnaroks or Fishmans for better tone, like an updated graphics card or patch for a game, their guitar doesn't sound as good anymore until they upgrade. The Tosin video last year really drove that home and had people instantly changing their pickups and lining up for pre-orders. I know this from first hand experience and a lot of money down the drain since the resale value of pickups is terrible. Its simple marketing and I'm sure its used across countless products.


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This is the kind of marketing that has caused the pickup industry to explode in recent years. Its been drove into guitarists heads recently that they need to have a set of Ragnaroks or Fishmans for better tone, like an updated graphics card or patch for a game, their guitar doesn't sound as good anymore until they upgrade. The Tosin video last year really drove that home and had people instantly changing their pickups and lining up for pre-orders. I know this from first hand experience and a lot of money down the drain since the resale value of pickups is terrible. Its simple marketing and I'm sure its used across countless products.



in all fairness though...the lace in the strandbergs are like totally the worst. and if a cheap set of tosins pops up...then who can say no.


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## MegaTones (Jan 24, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> I wonder if people actually believe the latest thing will answer their prayers, or if they just want to be doing what everyone else is doing



Forums/IG/facebook/etc are all marketing wet dreams. This has been the objective since the beginning. Can you imagine how happy someone at Peavey/Schecter/Ibanez/Anyone in Periphery is that there are 100+ page threads whose sole purpose is regurgitating product info?

A lot of people who get this gear (just go look on youtube) aren't even like... intermediate guitar players. Lots of people who post here with $5000+ in gear (Kempers, AFX, boutique guitars, $500 pedals) can barely keep a rhythm and/or have absolutely no ear for tone.

To get back to the point, it's all a marketing gimmick, the pickups are fine but it's the same shit everyone else has been doing for years, they just crafted the tone to preference. Obviously BKPs sound and feel different than DiMarzio or SDs, but the fundamentals are the exact same.


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## Curt (Jan 24, 2018)

Lorcan Ward said:


> This is the kind of marketing that has caused the pickup industry to explode in recent years. Its been drove into guitarists heads recently that they need to have a set of Ragnaroks or Fishmans for better tone, like an updated graphics card or patch for a game, their guitar doesn't sound as good anymore until they upgrade. The Tosin video last year really drove that home and had people instantly changing their pickups and lining up for pre-orders. I know this from first hand experience and a lot of money down the drain since the resale value of pickups is terrible. Its simple marketing and I'm sure its used across countless products.


To that end that's why I avoided the fishmans until I actually tried them. They gave me something I like, the EMG 81/85 type active sound, but they give me a bit more flavor versatility when I want it with the extra voicings. I think that's what makes them cool, but they're definitely not the one shot solution for everyone that their main hype man Ken Susi is making them out to be.


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## MegaTones (Jan 24, 2018)

Curt said:


> To that end that's why I avoided the fishmans until I actually tried them. They gave me something I like, the EMG 81/85 type active sound, but they give me a bit more flavor versatility when I want it with the extra voicings. I think that's what makes them cool, but they're definitely not the one shot solution for everyone that their main hype man Ken Susi is making them out to be.



A lot of people here also heavily advocate and sing praise for stuff they've never even touched in real life, let alone played. It's a marketing hype machine


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## Alex79 (Jan 24, 2018)

I always loved BKP and still do. When I bought the first one it cost just a bit more than a Seymour Duncan. Since then, options have exploded and prices have gone up. In addition, other brands have picked up their game, e.g. EMG -x series, Het Set, SD Black Winter and Nazgul (which is really similar to the Aftermath ).
I hate to say that if I needed a new pickup set I would probably go for a cheaper SD set.


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

Matt08642 said:


> Then again, we have major artists running around here talking about tone paint so



Oooff...


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## angl2k (Jan 24, 2018)

Curt said:


> To that end that's why I avoided the fishmans until I actually tried them. They gave me something I like, the EMG 81/85 type active sound, but they give me a bit more flavor versatility when I want it with the extra voicings. I think that's what makes them cool, but they're definitely not the one shot solution for everyone that their main hype man Ken Susi is making them out to be.



I agree that the Fluence is a bit hyped at the moment but Fishman is actually innovating because of their printed coils. Of course they're not a 'best in each and every scenario' type of pickup. I'd even say that the Fluence line isn't hyped at all, when they were released in 2014 nobody was really trying them out and it's only when Ken started pimping them to other artists that they were perceived as hyped.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 24, 2018)

Yeah it's funny with the Fishmans. He's even hyping the fuck out of the Fishmans on ESP dime. ESP is doing a bunch of videos showing off their Fishman loaded guitars with Ken Susi. 

I love the Fluence pickups though.. A looot. But man Ken is shoving them down people's throat more than other people with their pickup endorsements


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah it's funny with the Fishmans. He's even hyping the fuck out of the Fishmans on ESP dime. ESP is doing a bunch of videos showing off their Fishman loaded guitars with Ken Susi.
> 
> I love the Fluence pickups though.. A looot. But man Ken is shoving them down people's throat more than other people with their pickup endorsements


They just kinda feel like the new EMG, expect actually good IMO.


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## zarg (Jan 24, 2018)

the brute force seens kinda aimed at the generic prog stuff. interested to see their price tag. but cool how even the tele/strat set sounds chunky


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

zarg said:


> the brute force seens kinda aimed at the generic prog stuff. interested to see their price tag. but cool how even the tele/strat set sounds chunky



I mean, they sound good, but I'm no expert. I just really want to know price on these.


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## technomancer (Jan 24, 2018)

I will never understand the people that hate on more choices, regardless of the price point  Can't afford something or don't want to spend that much? Great don't, nobody is holding a gun to your head to go buy something


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

technomancer said:


> I will never understand the people that hate on more choices, regardless of the price point  Can't afford something or don't want to spend that much? Great don't, nobody is holding a gun to your head to go buy something


My exact thoughts.


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## technomancer (Jan 24, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> My exact thoughts.



I mean I do get that the hype cycles can be really annoying, but honestly it isn't that hard to tune it out


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

looks like it's four new lines consisting of a hum bucker, p90, tele, and strat all with the same name.

that's not going to get confusing.


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## lurè (Jan 24, 2018)

They're are probably going for a more standard and a bit cheaper series to use as stock pickups for some guitars.


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> looks like it's four new lines consisting of a hum bucker, p90, tele, and strat all with the same name.
> 
> that's not going to get confusing.


Actually if you go to their site, all the models can be a humbucker, p90 soap bar, tele, or strat styled.


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## Matt08642 (Jan 24, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> They just kinda feel like the new EMG, expect actually good IMO.



EMGs are fantastic if you want them to sound the way they do. There's a reason they have been the go-to solution for 90% of metal bands for the last 30 years. 

That being said, Fishmans seem cool since they're _actually_ a new technology/construction that yields new possibilities.



technomancer said:


> I will never understand the people that hate on more choices, regardless of the price point  Can't afford something or don't want to spend that much? Great don't, nobody is holding a gun to your head to go buy something





Albake21 said:


> My exact thoughts.



I don't think anyone is saying "Yeah screw BKP, Everything's the same anyway", it's more just people realizing they didn't do anything new, they just wound pickups to have a different sound than other pickups that were offered at the time (which is 100% valid)


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 24, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Actually if you go to their site, all the models can be a humbucker, p90 soap bar, tele, or strat styled.



eh. makes sense for the hum buckers since there are so many of them.
gonna get me some old guard strat and tele pups. these should be legit new additions to those lineups.


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## Curt (Jan 24, 2018)

zarg said:


> the brute force seens kinda aimed at the generic prog stuff. interested to see their price tag. but cool how even the tele/strat set sounds chunky



Bea and his pretty good production and great playing probably have something to do with that, I'm sure. I'd kill to hear raw guitar tracks of each, tbh.



technomancer said:


> I will never understand the people that hate on more choices, regardless of the price point  Can't afford something or don't want to spend that much? Great don't, nobody is holding a gun to your head to go buy something


Not that I'm hating on more choices, I'm just, as you say below, annoyed by hype cycles. It used to be easier to tune out, because it was a kind of smaller group of people hyping it up. Now it just seems like everyone is kissing the ground Tim walks on with everything he releases, and I just don't really see that as much with other pickup companies. That said, I'm sure if there had been internet forums back when Duncan and Dimarzio first started being a big deal, it would have been much the same. So I probably just need to let people enjoy things, I dunno.



technomancer said:


> I mean I do get that the hype cycles can be really annoying, but honestly it isn't that hard to tune it out


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## zarg (Jan 24, 2018)

Curt said:


> Bea and his pretty good production and great playing probably have something to do with that, I'm sure. I'd kill to hear raw guitar tracks of each, tbh.



yeah, his riffs are always sick. good tone in general too.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2018)

zarg said:


> the brute force seens kinda aimed at the generic prog stuff. interested to see their price tag. but cool how even the tele/strat set sounds chunky



they sound good, but all of rabea's demos sound good.


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## Albake21 (Jan 24, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> they sound good, but all of rabea's demos sound good.


Exactly, so we really need to hear a single, unmixed track.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Exactly, so we really need to hear a single, unmixed track.


I'm sick of people doing overproduced demos. Ok cool, the pickup works in the mix, there are plenty of pickups that don't sound anywhere near as good solo as they do in a mix. *cough* juggernaut, nazgul *cough* At least Fluff is pretty good about throwing in some solo bits so I can actually hear the pickups instead of drums.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jan 24, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm sick of people doing overproduced demos. Ok cool, the pickup works in the mix, there are plenty of pickups that don't sound anywhere near as good solo as they do in a mix. *cough* juggernaut, nazgul *cough* At least Fluff is pretty good about throwing in some solo bits so I can actually hear the pickups instead of drums.



Exactly. The mix lies. 

Many people on YouTube can make crappy gear sound pretty good in a mix or with some post production magic. Give me a single/mono, dry track panned dead center with no post production. So long as that is included to really give an idea of the demoed product, I’m happy.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2018)

Kyle Jordan said:


> Exactly. The mix lies.
> 
> Many people on YouTube can make crappy gear sound pretty good in a mix or with some post production magic. Give me a single/mono, dry track panned dead center with no post production. So long as that is included to really give an idea of the demoed product, I’m happy.


That's pretty much the reason I started doing my own pickup demos. I was sick of overproduced shit and demoers that don't use the same gear for each pickup. I've tried to keep the number of variables pretty minimal in my demos and effects limited to a tubescreamer (if i use it even). I'm going against the grain as far as what most people watching gear demos seem to want, and I don't really care. I make the videos/clips mostly for my own reference, and if they help some other people decide on a pickup then i'm cool with that.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jan 24, 2018)

I thank you for your demos too. I have found them helpful.


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## Hollowway (Jan 24, 2018)

I won't buy these because I can't see the name "Boot Camp" and not think of middle aged thick ladies trying to lose weight in a warehouse gym.


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## marcwormjim (Jan 25, 2018)

Matt08642 said:


> Then again, we have major artists running around here talking about tone paint so



If he was a major artist, he would neither depend on making biannual pre-order season appearances on a messageboard to reassure his fans that the new product is the best he’s ever used, nor threaten to stop posting if he was made to pay for a vendor account. Major bullshit artist, maybe - but by no means a household name. In the ss.org world, sure - A major artist elevated by major autists to show them the path from the empty bedroom to the bedroom full of gear.

Nice guy, all the same.


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## MegaTones (Jan 25, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> If he was a major artist, he would neither depend on making biannual pre-order season appearances on a messageboard to reassure his fans that the new product is the best he’s ever used, nor threaten to stop posting if he was made to pay for a vendor account. Major bullshit artist, maybe - but by no means a household name. In the ss.org world, sure - A major artist elevated by major autists to show them the path from the empty bedroom to the bedroom full of gear.
> 
> Nice guy, all the same.



murdered by words, good god.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 25, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> If he was a major artist, he would neither depend on making biannual pre-order season appearances on a messageboard to reassure his fans that the new product is the best he’s ever used, nor threaten to stop posting if he was made to pay for a vendor account. Major bullshit artist, maybe - but by no means a household name. In the ss.org world, sure - A major artist elevated by major autists to show them the path from the empty bedroom to the bedroom full of gear.
> 
> Nice guy, all the same.


the only time I see him on here is to peddle his new shit or occasionally talk about cars/watches. make of that what you will.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 25, 2018)

Man it’s salty in here. And I like it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 25, 2018)

cardinal said:


> Man it’s salty in here. And I like it.


marc is so salty he makes the dead sea seem low in sodium


----------



## narad (Jan 25, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> If he was a major artist, he would neither depend on making biannual pre-order season appearances on a messageboard to reassure his fans that the new product is the best he’s ever used, nor threaten to stop posting if he was made to pay for a vendor account. Major bullshit artist, maybe - but by no means a household name. In the ss.org world, sure - A major artist elevated by major autists to show them the path from the empty bedroom to the bedroom full of gear.
> 
> Nice guy, all the same.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 25, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> marc is so salty he makes the dead sea seem low in sodium



It’s just funny to read someone unloading on some SSO sacred cows.


----------



## Zado (Jan 26, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> I won't buy these because I can't see the name "Boot Camp" and not think of middle aged thick ladies trying to lose weight in a warehouse gym.


I'd have many mean jokes about this.


----------



## Sogradde (Jan 26, 2018)

This thread is a goldmine, my index finger is sore from all the likes I throw around. Keep it up lads!


----------



## lurè (Jan 26, 2018)




----------



## Edika (Jan 26, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> If he was a major artist, he would neither depend on making biannual pre-order season appearances on a messageboard to reassure his fans that the new product is the best he’s ever used, nor threaten to stop posting if he was made to pay for a vendor account. Major bullshit artist, maybe - but by no means a household name. In the ss.org world, sure - A major artist elevated by major autists to show them the path from the empty bedroom to the bedroom full of gear.
> 
> Nice guy, all the same.



I'd say with his setup almost any pickup would sound articulate and all notes in chords will be ringing out and blah blah blah. By the end of that signal chain I'm not sure how much of the guitar and the pickups can be heard anymore. I bet if he plugged in an inflatable guitar and released air it would still sound like his signature guitar with signature pickups.

Not at the level of the Jedai salt master.


----------



## Adam Mizraim List (Jan 26, 2018)

Hi all. 

(Unfortunately, I can not insert links yet, so remove the spaces).
Here I see (and you can see) the price of BKP Brute Force. For about $250 of set:
peachguitars com/ guitars/ guitar-pickups /

Like the Warpig, that pickup is cool because it's a very good pickup for brighter guitars if you want a really round high end, and it remains tight in the low end. But Dimarzio has a similar kind of thing going now with the Dave Davidson Imperium pickups. © Curt 

In fact of EQ not imperium but Illuminator is the same  And they are really good. 
dimarzio com / node / 8130

------------------------------------------------------
By the way I have a question about another boutique PU: what does the community think of Lundgren m7 set? You could do not agree with me but I think they are perfect. Perhaps overpriced too, but IMO unlike of BKP m7 have their unique tone.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 26, 2018)

yeesh 130usd for the humbuckers on that site. Not much cheaper than their other non-sig pickups, though I'd bet it's a tiny bit cheaper to buy from BKP directly.


----------



## Frostbite (Jan 26, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeesh 130usd for the humbuckers on that site. Not much cheaper than their other non-sig pickups, though I'd bet it's a tiny bit cheaper to buy from BKP directly.


They said it would be stripped back not cheap lmao


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 26, 2018)

Frostbite said:


> They said it would be stripped back not cheap lmao


since it's a 10$ difference between this new lineup (if they're new pickups) and the other ones I don't see why the hell anyone is going to buy the boot camp pickups then. I thought this was supposed to be their more affordable noob friendly lineup.


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 26, 2018)

eh i'll get a tele and a strat brute force. The high output tele and strat line needed another option.


----------



## Frostbite (Jan 26, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> since it's a 10$ difference between this new lineup (if they're new pickups) and the other ones I don't see why the hell anyone is going to buy the boot camp pickups then. I thought this was supposed to be their more affordable noob friendly lineup.


So did I tbh. I guess what they meant was it's more "if you like this music, get this" type of thing


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## Albake21 (Jan 27, 2018)

Frostbite said:


> So did I tbh. I guess what they meant was it's more "if you like this music, get this" type of thing


Pretty disappointing.


----------



## narad (Jan 27, 2018)

I was thinking this would be a better fit for OEM stuff. I mean, we should all do the research, but if BKP is getting more mainstream and working out more deals with manufacturers, it makes sense to have a more immediately interpretable naming strategy for when you see some random Ibanez or something listed as having BKP <X>, and unifies across models, if say Fender were to have teles with a few different pickup configurations.

If it's just for us, it seems stupid.


----------



## Edika (Jan 27, 2018)

Just checked their site and they only mention dealers in the buy section. It seems that you can't buy them direct from Bareknuckle. Seeing the peach guitars site the Brute Force is £89 while the uncovered Nailbomb is £95. Not that much of a price difference to justify the price.​
Of course those in the Peach guitars site are pre price hike and a NB ontheir site is £119 excluding shiping which brings it to £134.58. So in that sense they are cheaper.


----------



## prlgmnr (Jan 27, 2018)

How much is there to "strip back" when it comes to pickups anyway?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 27, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> How much is there to "strip back" when it comes to pickups anyway?


170 lbs of hype and marketing buzzwords, along with some physically abused metal covers for them.


----------



## narad (Jan 27, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> How much is there to "strip back" when it comes to pickups anyway?



The employees are allowed to watch Netflix while winding "Boot Camp" series pickups.


----------



## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

Matt08642 said:


> Then again, we have major artists running around here talking about tone paint so



Wait who said what now?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 27, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Wait who said what now?



That lightbulb guy


----------



## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> That lightbulb guy


Okay I'm gonna need the story here....Tone....paint?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 27, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Okay I'm gonna need the story here....Tone....paint?


Check his sig thread, basically he said satin sounds better


----------



## narad (Jan 27, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Okay I'm gonna need the story here....Tone....paint?



The new Juggernauts are satin because the finish on the previous poly ones were choking the tonez.


----------



## Smoked Porter (Jan 27, 2018)

narad said:


> The employees are allowed to watch Netflix while winding "Boot Camp" series pickups.


----------



## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

narad said:


> The new Juggernauts are satin because the finish on the previous poly ones were choking the tonez.





KnightBrolaire said:


> Check his sig thread, basically he said satin sounds better



Can't wait for the new Bulb Signature House of Colour paints!


To be fair I stopped listening to him on tone when he talked about active pickups "batteries don't be long in guitars" But he'll happily run straight in to a Protone/Horizon stomp box in to an AXE FX....


----------



## BigViolin (Jan 27, 2018)

Well, but, batteries _don't _belong in guitars.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 27, 2018)

BigViolin said:


> Well, but, batteries _don't _belong in guitars.



No.


-Fishman/EMG user


----------



## cip 123 (Jan 27, 2018)

BigViolin said:


> Well, but, batteries _don't _belong in guitars.


How else will I power my light up fretboard?


----------



## BigViolin (Jan 27, 2018)

My smoke machine runs on 18v.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Jan 27, 2018)

BigViolin said:


> My smoke machine runs on 18v.


I'm still on 9V. Is the smoke “smokier“ with the 18V mod?


----------



## cardinal (Jan 27, 2018)

narad said:


> The new Juggernauts are satin because the finish on the previous poly ones were choking the tonez.



I don’t know the details, but it seems plausible that Jackson sprayed a thicker finish for the gloss because they don’t want to burn through it when buffing or whatever but can spray a much thinner satin finish because they don’t need to buff it. I don’t know I’d say it’s likely, but possible. And the thickness of the finish can impact how resonate a guitar feels.


----------



## narad (Jan 27, 2018)

cardinal said:


> I don’t know the details, but it seems plausible that Jackson sprayed a thicker finish for the gloss because they don’t want to burn through it when buffing or whatever but can spray a much thinner satin finish because they don’t need to buff it. I don’t know I’d say it’s likely, but possible. And the thickness of the finish can impact how resonate a guitar feels.



I mean, it's funny. On one hand, sure, it's that age-old thin nitro belief playing out once again, that I don't know if it's really something anyone can confirm or deny. I haven't played the poly Juggs, but could totally believe that (despite being pushed as high-end $3k+ guitars) Jackson can't manage to do a thin poly like the kind you find on Suhrs and the like.

On the other hand, it's kind of the ultimate guitar-version of "Your old model is obsolete. Please purchase the new model!"

I'll just say that it's worth noting that last year's poly Jugg was the guitar that was supposedly right up there with the blackmachine -- the guitar that basically started the satin finish trend in prog metal.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 27, 2018)

this is the year that misha invented the phrase, jumping the shark.


----------



## marcwormjim (Jan 27, 2018)

“Djumping.”


----------



## teqnick (Jan 28, 2018)

narad said:


> I'll just say that it's worth noting that last year's poly Jugg was the guitar that was supposedly right up there with the blackmachine -- the guitar that basically started the satin finish trend in prog metal.



2018's satin Juggernaut MM sig will dethrone the God tier Blackmachine, and the cult will djrink their kool aid. I hope 2019 has a push-pull built in precision djrive.


----------



## axxessdenied (Jan 28, 2018)

It's funny. All of you guys are talking smack and yet Misha is the one making something of himself in this industry.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 28, 2018)

axxessdenied said:


> It's funny. All of you guys are talking smack and yet Misha is the one making something of himself in this industry.



by that logic we should all be listening to what ed sheeran has to say


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 28, 2018)

axxessdenied said:


> It's funny. All of you guys are talking smack and yet Misha is the one making something of himself in this industry.


no one talked smack about his music, merely his gear peddling and hyping. Those are pretty much the only reasons he comes on here anymore. He did it with the precision drive, the invective, the jugg pickups and guitars, with the protone pedals, etc. Josh from northlane also has sig pickups with BKP and he wasn't on here hyping the shit out of them.


----------



## lurè (Jan 28, 2018)

I still don't see the problem of someone promoting his brand/sig guitars and stuff (unless that is against some forum rules).
What's the point of trying to have an income by releasing guitars/pedals/amps/pickups and don't advertise them?
In the end he's not trying to sell you a washing machine; guitars, amps and pickups are something i might be interested in or not.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 28, 2018)

lurè said:


> I still don't see the problem of someone promoting his brand/sig guitars and stuff (unless that is against some forum rules).
> What's the point of trying to have an income by releasing guitars/pedals/amps/pickups and don't advertise them?
> In the end he's not trying to sell you a washing machine; guitars, amps and pickups are something i might be interested in or not.



it is kinda against the forum rules without a dealer account.

Also, what's wrong with picking apart marketing speak when it's silly. Ads are silly.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Jan 28, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> by that logic we should all be listening to what ed sheeran has to say


Comparing Misha Mansoor to Ed Sheeran is completely off by any metric they have in common (which rules out “Most distorted guitar“ sound“ and “Most strings on a guitar“). Not picking on Sheeran, I'm sure he could share a ton of experience about surviving the game as a singer/songwriter...


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 28, 2018)

Lemonbaby said:


> Comparing Misha Mansoor to Ed Sheeran is completely off by any metric they have in common (which rules out “Most distorted guitar“ sound“ and “Most strings on a guitar“). Not picking on Sheeran, I'm sure he could share a ton of experience about surviving the game as a singer/songwriter...



the quotation took the form of a fucking joke.


----------



## angl2k (Jan 28, 2018)

Man I like Misha and Periphery and I don't mind him promoting his signature gear.. that's what he's paid to do after all  I think he's also a bit of a gear nut so he might blabber about gear much more often than other artists?

About the gloss vs satin finish tone, to each their own I guess... the audience won't hear the difference anyway.


----------



## narad (Jan 28, 2018)

Lambs to the slaughter!


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 28, 2018)

teqnick said:


> 2018's satin Juggernaut MM sig will dethrone the God tier Blackmachine, and the cult will djrink their kool aid. I hope 2019 has a push-pull built in precision djrive.



It’ll have a push-pull built in drive/gate, so you should get it. But, also still get a precision drive and an invective, which all have boosts and gates, but


axxessdenied said:


> It's funny. All of you guys are talking smack and yet Misha is the one making something of himself in this industry.



The issue is that a lot of people think that "business" is saying whatever you need to get a sale done, and trying to pull one over on the customer. For me, that's the problem I have with his stuff. A few months ago there was a FB ad from Horizon, saying the Precision drive was discounted through their site, and you couldn't get it for that price anywhere else. Meanwhile, that was the exact price you could get it from from the major retailers. And this business about "almost sold out!" when it's still for sale literally months later is dishonest. And then saying that the precision drive has a gate in it, so finally people don't need a separate gate, only to release the Invective with a gate, saying that the Precision Drive gate isn't really meant to replace a regular gate. It's a shame, because countless studies have shown that this unethical hucksterism does not result in long term success. But a lot of people still resort to it


----------



## narad (Jan 28, 2018)

Yea, I don't think anyone has a problem with people generally promoting gear. Some great gear has come out in the past few years as a result of artist collaboration. It's just like the hard sells to a very susceptible demographic are a bit much -- I feel like behind the scenes at Misha Industries it's like...



It's the good and the bad. The precision drive is cool and convenient for getting those tones, but it's pushed like a revolutionary thing, when you could just get an OD and an EQ and accomplish these things (and more). I hate to see kids with $300 amps buy a $200 pedal because their hero says it's the greatest.

The Jackson Juggernaut is one of the best designed production guitars out there (IMO). Everyone I know (but one) who's played one has had some QC issue. Still I remember seeing all the young guys buying them, showing up at meet-and-greets and getting signatures and photo ops. 4 months later, in the classifieds.

So you know, if you like the features and you can try it out in person, go for it! Just be a bit more skeptical about getting excited about a product based on the opinion of the person who profits most from selling it to you. That's not guitar world wisdom, that's just common sense.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 28, 2018)

narad said:


> Yea, I don't think anyone has a problem with people generally promoting gear. Some great gear has come out in the past few years as a result of artist collaboration. It's just like the hard sells to a very susceptible demographic are a bit much -- I feel like behind the scenes at Misha Industries it's like...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1 for the Glengarry Glen Ross vid
I remember him making a video specifically showing him using the precision drive with a yamaha thr100x or whatever and going " look, you don't need to spend 1000s of dollars to get this tone!! Just 200$ on a pedal!!!" when you can achieve a similar sound with other used pedals for less. I personally only bought because I got it for pennies on the dollar from a guy offloading all his pedals. it's nothing special as far as being an OD, but the tighten knob and noise gate are kind of nifty.


----------



## InCasinoOut (Jan 28, 2018)

Anyone else think the names for these pickups sound like different deodorant scents from AXE or Old Spice?? Or is that just me...

Brute Force, True Grit, Old Guard


----------



## Vyn (Jan 28, 2018)

InCasinoOut said:


> Anyone else think the names for these pickups sound like different deodorant scents from AXE or Old Spice?? Or is that just me...
> 
> Brute Force, True Grit, Old Guard



Hello, ladies, look at your man's guitar, now back to mine, now back at your man's, now back to mine. Sadly, his guitar isn’t mine, but if he stopped using girly sounding pickups and switched to Bare Knuckle Pickups, he could sound like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re on a boat with the guitar you wish your man had. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an oyster with two tickets to the band you love. Look again, the tickets are now diamonds. Anything is possible when your man sounds like Bare Knuckle Pickups and not a lady. I’m on a horse.


----------



## marcwormjim (Jan 29, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> It's a shame, because countless studies have shown that this unethical hucksterism does not result in long term success.



I’m positive he acts wth the understanding that this is a fleeting thing. Not just being the Billy Mays of djent, but the music industry spotlight for artists in general. I vaguely recall him having a burner account here that he uses when it’s not shilling season. I just wonder if the next metal scene that arises as a reaction to his will regard him as a djoke.

On-topic, Tim would be wise to score an OEM contract to justify the redundancy of this line in both price and marketing.


----------



## blacai (Jan 29, 2018)

Maybe his selling techniques and manners are set that Mehtab. I saw he is just one of those "businessmen"


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 29, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> I’m positive he acts wth the understanding that this is a fleeting thing. Not just being the Billy Mays of djent, but the music industry spotlight for artists in general. I vaguely recall him having a burner account here that he uses when it’s not shilling season. I just wonder if the next metal scene that arises as a reaction to his will regard him as a djoke.
> 
> On-topic, Tim would be wise to score an OEM contract to justify the redundancy of this line in both price and marketing.



Yeah, I shouldn’t be so harsh on the guy. You’re right - it’s hard to have a long career in music, so he may really have to push hard now. Still, there is a risk of not being taken seriously, or being mistrusted. The fact is, I like the guy’s music a lot, and I respect how he got where he is. I just have hair trigger bullshit sensors for marketing hype.


----------



## Curt (Jan 29, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I shouldn’t be so harsh on the guy. You’re right - it’s hard to have a long career in music, so he may really have to push hard now. Still, there is a risk of not being taken seriously, or being mistrusted. The fact is, I like the guy’s music a lot, and I respect how he got where he is. I just have hair trigger bullshit sensors for marketing hype.



My senses tell me that being taken seriously isn't really a huge deal to Misha. He never seems to take himself too seriously, which is a stark contrast to most people on gear nerd forums. Sure, it's largely hype built off marketing buzzwords, but so are most things in this sphere. It doesn't bother me a ton, mostly because it's all pretty obviously. As long as solid products come from it that's all I care.


----------



## marcwormjim (Jan 29, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I shouldn’t be so harsh on the guy. You’re right - it’s hard to have a long career in music, so he may really have to push hard now. Still, there is a risk of not being taken seriously, or being mistrusted. The fact is, I like the guy’s music a lot, and I respect how he got where he is. I just have hair trigger bullshit sensors for marketing hype.



I respect Misha for setting aside the time to condescend to an exploitable fan base that froths for him while they wait to be told what to buy. He’d be insane to not take the necessary steps to supply that demand; and gearwhoring with Jackson after claiming he’d never played one before, or launching a signature amp with Peavey after claiming his Axe FX has made amps obsolete (not to mention pitching high-price stompboxes essentially reverse-engineered from the generic ones in his freely-available Axe FX patches) is just the path gear-endorsers are limited to taking in the 21st century.

A marketed artist who doesn’t at least dip their toes in bullshit is just called an artist, and an artist is just below the lines of poverty and obscurity. An industry has been built on this premise that all that separates Misha from every other millennial with a bedroom rig is a bedroom rig costing a few thousand more dollars - But the truth is it’s effort beyond the bedroom that makes a Misha.

I first interacted with the guy when he was sharing POD patches and posting mixing guides for cheap gear. The ??? between that step and the “Profit” step comes down to the earned reputation of always having conducted himself with class - The image presented was easy for others to visualize as being easy to work with. He understood that what moved listeners wasn’t going to be the bedroom SoundCloud opus of a 10th generation Steve Vai, or a YouTube channel that “demos” all kinds of individual gear through a 100%-wet, 30-component signal chain with cascading stereo delays, multiple camera angles, and a mastering plugin. The single most valuable asset to Misha’s career has been the ability to deliver a polished product. He gets stuff to be sold done. End of story.

I bust his balls on this site because he paints a target on his back knowing full-well that the sales lost overexposing his name as a selling point are negligible within the timeframe of the fifteen minutes he has. If you read between the lines of his weighing in on artists such as Tosin and Ola launching their own guitar brands, you infer that he’s cautioning them to not overestimate their own staying power in a fickle market. Endorsing products with much higher profit margins (it costs a few dollars to wind a pickup or mod a Tubescreamer PCB kit, no matter where on the planet you do it) is way less of a blow to the branding if the product flops in the free market, and I’m sure the details of his higher risk-contracts reflect that (Jackson having trouble moving Juggernauts? That’s Jackson’s logo on the headstock; and not “Bulb GuitarWorks” - Let Jackson worry about the numbers) - At the very least, the rhetoric about “just putting a versatile and perfect guitar out there for the PEOPLE, man!” downplays the obvious need for corporate sales-expectations to be met. The aesthetic variation in color and finish introduced to coincide with the first fiscal quarter of the year can only be to reinvigorate stagnating sales numbers; and admitting anything close to that would be counterproductive.

As I said, I respect the guy for stepping on the marketing department’s toes to claim to the end-buyers that the satin finish will make you sound three grand better, even if you already own the gloss model - But putting oneself out there draws more than just praise. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he understands any discussion of his brand he inspires in that marketing capacity is effective marketing. Again: He’s the Billy Mays of djent, and Billy Mays knew exactly what he was.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 29, 2018)

Mark hasn't had any problems selling holcomb se's. 
Jake though. oof. Get that man a twitter and a youtube channel.


----------



## Alex79 (Jan 29, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Can't wait for the new Bulb Signature House of Colour paints!
> 
> 
> To be fair I stopped listening to him on tone when he talked about active pickups "batteries don't be long in guitars" But he'll happily run straight in to a Protone/Horizon stomp box in to an AXE FX....



I stopped listening to him already around the whole ProTone pedals fiasco.


----------



## Alex79 (Jan 29, 2018)

To be honest, I wouldn't mind Steve Stevens coming to the board from time to time to talk about his stuff! 
He's got tone, and his signature amp doesn't look like something that belongs in a hospital.


----------



## Sogradde (Jan 29, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> Mark hasn't had any problems selling holcomb se's.
> Jake though. oof. Get that man a twitter and a youtube channel.


Jake is the most humble guy in Periphery I feel (not that I know an awful lot about them). Supporting him by buying his signature PUs made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


----------



## oneblackened (Jan 29, 2018)

So, I tried the new BKP line at NAMM and asked Nick at AP about them. They're competing pricewise with Duncan and Dimarzio (apparently they're looking to be ~$200 a set if not a little less), and they're honestly pretty good pickups.


----------



## Frostbite (Jan 31, 2018)

oneblackened said:


> So, I tried the new BKP line at NAMM and asked Nick at AP about them. They're competing pricewise with Duncan and Dimarzio (apparently they're looking to be ~$200 a set if not a little less), and they're honestly pretty good pickups.


That is certainly awesome to hear. I liked how Rabea's demo of the brute force sounded. I'll have to try them at Axe Palace once they load a guitar with them


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 9, 2018)

What's wrong with Ed Sheeran?


----------



## Alex79 (Feb 9, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> What's wrong with Ed Sheeran?


Nothing, except that his sig looks like it was made for toddlers.


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 9, 2018)

Alex79 said:


> Nothing, except that his sig looks like it was made for toddlers.



Oh ok then... hate approved. lol


----------



## fps (Feb 10, 2018)

marcwormjim said:


> I respect Misha for setting aside the time to condescend to an exploitable fan base that froths for him while they wait to be told what to buy. He’d be insane to not take the necessary steps to supply that demand; and gearwhoring with Jackson after claiming he’d never played one before, or launching a signature amp with Peavey after claiming his Axe FX has made amps obsolete (not to mention pitching high-price stompboxes essentially reverse-engineered from the generic ones in his freely-available Axe FX patches) is just the path gear-endorsers are limited to taking in the 21st century.
> 
> A marketed artist who doesn’t at least dip their toes in bullshit is just called an artist, and an artist is just below the lines of poverty and obscurity. An industry has been built on this premise that all that separates Misha from every other millennial with a bedroom rig is a bedroom rig costing a few thousand more dollars - But the truth is it’s effort beyond the bedroom that makes a Misha.
> 
> ...



Superb post.


----------



## Alex79 (Feb 10, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> Oh ok then... hate approved. lol



I really do like the Taylor GS mini though. ... ☺


----------



## Andromalia (Feb 11, 2018)

Funny thread. I know I'm likely the minority here but nobody's going to sell me gear by playing Dj.... with it. Even Rabea. Periphery isn't my thing. Saw them opening for devin townsend, very good musicians but the music is so boring apart from a few good songs.

Only high end "boutique" pickup I own is a Lundgren and I'm still purchasing EMGs after 25 years of playing.


----------



## McBrain (Feb 25, 2018)

I installed a True Grit set in my Explorer Pro yesterday and they sound great! My first impression was not that good and it took a lot of adjustments to get them where I like them. They sound very different from the pickups I normally use (high output), so I had to spend some time getting to know them and tweak the height and amp settings.

I'm awful at describing sound, so please take this with a grain of salt. Also I don't really have experience with other "medium output" pickups, but here goes: The bridge is grainy/growly but in a good way and not at all harsh in the trebles. The neck is definitely a lot fatter than what I'm used to, but have a very open sound. They do feel a little mismatched though, so it's a bit hard to adjust my amp where they both sound great, but this is not nearly as bad as with my Gibson 57 classics in my ES-339 where the bridge and neck are just way too far apart in terms of treble/bass. I don't think I will be using the TG's for metal, but they sound amazing for blues and hard rock.

Yeah, I guess that really didn't give give a very clear picture of how they sound  Hopefully BKP will soon have some sound clips on their page. I did however measure the True Grits with my multimeter, and this is what I got:

Bridge: 13.0 kΩ
Neck: 9.2 kΩ


----------



## Tisca (Feb 25, 2018)

McBrain said:


> I installed a True Grit set in my Explorer Pro...



Do you play any stoner/doom/sludge type? What other pickups do you have at the moment to compare to?


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## McBrain (Feb 25, 2018)

Tisca said:


> Do you play any stoner/doom/sludge type? What other pickups do you have at the moment to compare to?



No sorry. Mostly plays blues, hard rock and thrash/classic metal.

Right now I have Titans, Rebel Yells, 57 Classics, JB/Jazz and the True Grits have a more vintage sound to them - definately more of a high powered PAF vibe. They feel closer to my 57 classics than any of my other pickups, but with tighter lows and more power.


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## McBrain (Feb 25, 2018)

I have to backtrack on not using them for metal. I spent some time with my OwnHammer 'Heavy Hitters Collection' IR library tonight, and they are just insanely tight when paired up with the right amp and cab.


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## Avedas (Feb 25, 2018)

McBrain said:


> I installed a True Grit set in my Explorer Pro yesterday


So what made you go with a True Grit and not one of the already established models? Isn't the price difference negligible?


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 25, 2018)

Avedas said:


> So what made you go with a True Grit and not one of the already established models? Isn't the price difference negligible?


yeah axepalace has the new lineup priced at pretty much on par with their other pickups. blackhawk set =250$, brute force set=240$


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## McBrain (Feb 26, 2018)

Avedas said:


> So what made you go with a True Grit and not one of the already established models? Isn't the price difference negligible?



Before NAMM my original plan was to get another set of Rebel Yells for the Explorer, since I'm really happy with the set I already have in a different guitar, but I wanted them to be in zebra, so I would probably have to order them directly from BKP, which would cost me £245.00 + £10.83 in postage = £255.83 (357,80$)

A set of True Grits from Thomann (huge European webshop), cost me 198€ + 8€ in postage = 206€ (253,36$)

But even if the prices were closer, I would have no problem getting the Boot Camp series. Sure it was risky since they are new and nobody tried them yet, but buying pickups is always a bit of a gamble. Also the Boot Camp models should have the exact same build quality and materials as the regular models - they can just make them cheaper because they mass produce them, so in my mind it’s just another BKP model with the added bonus of being cheaper and available where I usually buy my gear.

So even if the price difference here in Europe was only 10$ I would still consider them.


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## McBrain (Mar 3, 2018)

I initially ordered a 50mm bridge pickup since the guitar is a Gibson with a TOM, but it seems that my luthier widened the string spacing a bit after refretting and removing the nibs (he also installed a new bridge with unslotted saddles), so that the b and e strings were a bit too far away from the pole pieces on the bridge pickup, so I returned the the 50mm and ordered a 53mm version instead. I also measured this one before installing it and was surprised to see that it was 14.0 kΩ instead of 13.0 kΩ. Does 50mm and 53mm normally differ in DC Resistance? I guess it must be similar to the differences between 6-string and 7-string pickups but less extreme.

Also, I had less trouble finding the sweet spot with the 53mm version. It just sounded great from the beginning. This is quickly becoming my favorite bridge pickup and I'm considering getting another set for my Schecter C1+. It's just so clear and tight with the perfect amount of bite, but not too dry or trebly and the mids are present but not overpowering. I'm so happy this worked out since the last set of BKP's I bought were alnico Nailbombs, and I really really hated those - the mids just pierced by brain in the most uncomfortable way and there was no way to dial it out on my amp.

Can't wait to read other peoples opinions on these.


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## Shoeless_jose (Mar 3, 2018)

your explorer is awesome.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Mar 3, 2018)

McBrain said:


> I initially ordered a 50mm bridge pickup since the guitar is a Gibson with a TOM, but it seems that my luthier widened the string spacing a bit after refretting and removing the nibs (he also installed a new bridge with unslotted saddles), so that the b and e strings were a bit too far away from the pole pieces on the bridge pickup, so I returned the the 50mm and ordered a 53mm version instead. I also measured this one before installing it and was surprised to see that it was 14.0 kΩ instead of 13.0 kΩ. Does 50mm and 53mm normally differ in DC Resistance? I guess it must be similar to the differences between 6-string and 7-string pickups but less extreme.
> 
> Also, I had less trouble finding the sweet spot with the 53mm version. It just sounded great from the beginning. This is quickly becoming my favorite bridge pickup and I'm considering getting another set for my Schecter C1+. It's just so clear and tight with the perfect amount of bite, but not too dry or trebly and the mids are present but not overpowering. I'm so happy this worked out since the last set of BKP's I bought were alnico Nailbombs, and I really really hated those - the mids just pierced by brain in the most uncomfortable way and there was no way to dial it out on my amp.
> 
> Can't wait to read other peoples opinions on these.



Generally speaking, even Gibson's with a ToM bridges made after a certain date (1998?) are Trem/F-spaced. You're still able to use regular spaced humbuckers with them without issue, although depending on how things are aligned, sometimes you may have a pole piece or two that don't line up that well. Generally though unless the string is completely/entirely outside the pole piece you shouldn't really have any significant tonal differences.

Yes, usually when going from regular spaced to trem/f-spaced (in BKP's terms 50 to 53mm) you will see an increase in DC resistance (this is due to the change in spacing, and its done so that it will sound like the regular spaced humbucker--in other words, it has the same relative value). On average you can expect to see around a 0.7-0.8 difference for most pickups, so a 1.0 difference is completely reasonable. Not to mention, pickups tend to vary in DC resistance anyways even for the same models (for example you may have the same model pickup with same spacing vary in DC resistance by 0.4 or more even).
In other words, you're good.


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## McBrain (Mar 4, 2018)

Dineley said:


> your explorer is awesome.



Thanks! I love that guitar. It's really light and resonant, balances perfectly and sustains really well. Only thing that's not so great is the access to the last fret, at least with my tiny hands, but I can live with that. It took me about five years to find a good one, since they only made 400 of them back in 2007 and at that time I was studying, so it was way out of my price range.



AkiraSpectrum said:


> Generally speaking, even Gibson's with a ToM bridges made after a certain date (1998?) are Trem/F-spaced. You're still able to use regular spaced humbuckers with them without issue, although depending on how things are aligned, sometimes you may have a pole piece or two that don't line up that well. Generally though unless the string is completely/entirely outside the pole piece you shouldn't really have any significant tonal differences.



Good to know about the F-spaced ToM bridges  On the Explorer the b and e strings were completely clear of the pole pieces - even worse than the last example in this picture. Now all the strings are like the one in the middle, so that should be ok. My other Gibson, a 2007 ES-339 seems to be standard spacing, but it's got an ABR-1 instead of a Nashville style ToM. Don't know if that makes a difference or if it's just a coincidence?



AkiraSpectrum said:


> Yes, usually when going from regular spaced to trem/f-spaced (in BKP's terms 50 to 53mm) you will see an increase in DC resistance (this is due to the change in spacing, and its done so that it will sound like the regular spaced humbucker--in other words, it has the same relative value). On average you can expect to see around a 0.7-0.8 difference for most pickups, so a 1.0 difference is completely reasonable. Not to mention, pickups tend to vary in DC resistance anyways even for the same models (for example you may have the same model pickup with same spacing vary in DC resistance by 0.4 or more even).
> In other words, you're good.



Thank you for the insight! It sounds great, so I wasn't really worried  Just thought it was weird.


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