# Tonal comparison of ENGL amps???



## Gmork (Sep 3, 2019)

Can those with experience with the main engl heads give a VERY brief bullet point comparison of them all??

Ive only played the FB100 but like it so much that im now beyond curious how the others compare tonally. Figured itd be nice to see em all together in an easy to digest post


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## BrutalRob (Sep 3, 2019)

that´s something that I would really be interested in as well. Though that new Savage Mkii got me curious since the savage has a legendary status for death metal


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Sep 3, 2019)

I've owned a Retro 50, a Fireball 100, and two Invader 100s (MK I). 

My favourite was the FB100. It was simple, balls to the wall pure metal, and a pretty decent clean channel, too. Very saturated and scooped, but totally usable. Apparently the original Fireball had even more of a scoop inherent to it. The gain knob has a reasonably large range on it so is pretty versatile, but don't expect to do anything less than the large umbrella of "high gain". You can dial it to be tight, or loose, and you don't necessarily need an OD in the front. I used one with the level around unity just for the low cut and mid boost. Great tones! Why the hell did I sell it?!?!

I hated the Retro. It's been a loooong time, but it just didn't feel good to me. It certainly has a more retro vibe, as the name suggests, and is aimed more at rock. It can do metal when boosted and in high gain mode, but not as well as the Fireball. It's an odd, almost Marshall-y vibe, but not as mean as a Marshall can be. It was smoother, and almost had a sort of sag going no matter the volume. I am basing this purely off of years old memory and not that much time as the owner.

The Invader (MK I) - Channel 3 is insane. More mids and brighter than the Fireball, but less low end, I found. It was hard to get a palm mute that would hold and let the low end rumble. Still a lot of fun, however. Good for mid to late 2000s metal tones, can nail As I Lay Dying's An Ocean Between Us tone almost exactly. Great if that's your thing. I found every other channel basically unusable for me. The clean was bland, lifeless. Ch2 was... I don't even know what it was aiming for, maybe something more akin to the Retro as in mid-gain. Channel 4 was god damn ugly. Very saturated and fizzy, almost Recto-ish in a way, but not cool like a Recto. I have one for sale for anyone who lives in the UK and wasn't completely turned off by my statement there.

That's as far as my experience goes, hope it was helpful.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 4, 2019)

paging @Wizard of Ozz


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 4, 2019)

I had 2 Fireballs 60 and was happy with it. Nice clean and very good high gain channel. I did couple of rehearsals with other guitaris having 5150 and it was sounding very good. But it wasn't battle of volumes, so mix was nice. I also recorder demo and it was fine.

Savage 120 and Savage SE are pretty similar for bedroom playing. I would presume that difference is bigger when playing with band at louder volume. I don't play them side by side so I didn't do direct comparison. They have nice clean that can be shaped bright or darker..doh. Stays clean with active pickups. Crunch 2 can do blues/rock tones but I just don't care for that. I usualy use Lead Channel for everything metal related. Decent saturation. Personally I believe it has enough bass, but compared to rectifier is like only 20%. But here I'm implying that rectifier has this boomines that is too much imo. It is great for fast palm mutes. For solo I use smooth mode since it's a little to harsh on rough mode (I have mids at around 13 to 15 o'clock, treble at 13). When volumes are up, it gets really bright. I did raise master volume to around 14 o'clock to make it a little darker but it didn't have affect (Savage SE). But this was me listening in rehersal room. Maybe mick could pick it up.

I just love my ENGL's for home playing. They sound nice even at conversation level. I just lover bass to 10h, mids to 15h, treble 12-13h and boost presence to around 15h. That way my 7 string is having enough clarity.


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## Sdrizis89 (Sep 4, 2019)

I own an Engl Savage 120 and absolutely love it. It's tight without a boost, can still take a boost if you want to get even tighter. The lead channel, where most of us will be, has more than enough gain for anything you could think of. The tonal shaping abilities using both gain knobs, rough/smooth, depth booth, and lead boost, give you so many added flavors. The lows are never boomy but very powerful, almost like the amp is boosted already by a pedal when it isn't. Way more than passable clean channel, Crunch channels can do blues, classic rock, hard rock, and more very well. My only issue is that the footboard switch does not have an FX loop switch, which to me is a little stupid on their part. I made one on my own using a pedal configuration and made my own little FX switch.


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## BrutalRob (Sep 4, 2019)

The only Engl I have some experience with is the ironball. I sold it since it was a rather smooth tone. very clear, but to smooth for my tastes.

The fireball I only tried at a musicstore once. Seemed rather dark with again rolled off highs.

Would love to try the new savage


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## nightlight (Sep 4, 2019)

I own a Savage 120 and a Fireball 100. 

Both amps have a very compressed gain structure that I like a lot. I don't mean it's closed sounding, it's more like aggression, they respond really fast to your playing and both can sound brutal. 

I'd say the Savage is the more refined of the two amps, has more channels and is probably user in more styles, even though it's a "metal" amp. It's a very smooth sounding amp, great for styles like thrash or melodic death metal.

The Fireball on the other is more like a one trick pony, but it does that trick ("metal!") exceedingly well. The Fireball has a lot more bass than the Savage, especially with the low switch and it really pairs well with guitars tuned low. I think they did a similar thing with the Savage MKII, which has a depth knob instead of just a deep switch on the MKI. 

I don't think either amp has to be boosted really, they have lots of gain on tap. I still prefer the Savage to the Fireball though, mainly because I like it's distorted tones more. 

Both amps have killer master volumes, anywhere from whisper quiet to monstrous. 

If you want to hear a Fireball 100 breathing... fire, skip to the 1.26 mark in this video I did comparing different high gain amps. I think the common complaint about it being dark is because of the depth switch being on, which isn't really necessary.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 4, 2019)

I don't think that Savage mkii has depth knob. I still see only depth boost switch, only this time is only one button (previously it was one per presence).


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## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 4, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> paging @Wizard of Ozz



Without writing a 500 page novel...

I like the Engl SE and Savage 120 the best. I'm very interested in trying the new Savage 120 MKII . The SE and Savage sound the best to me and do pretty much everything good... although the heavy, modern, metal-thrash tones are their forte. The SE has more bass, chunk, and bottom and is the thicker sounding amp... the Savage 120 is more compressed (which is saying a lot by Engl standards) and has more high-end cut, more Marshall mid-sound, and not as much bottom/bass even with the depth boost on... not as modern sounding, like a modified Marshall 2203.

The PB/PBII are more towards the SE sound, but not as smooth, produced, and polished sounding. The PBII and new FB100 are pretty dark, modern, thumping sounding amps as far as Engls go. Very modern, dark, tons of bass and bottom (tweakable with the depth knob... all Engls should have this depth knob)... and tons of gain. Very chug friendly. These are more straight forward plug-n-play type amps... less tweak-able vs the SE & Savage. If you prefer dark amps, start with these.

The Invader and Invader II are my least favorite of the Engl line. Jack of all trades, master of none... decent clean and crunch tones... but not an amazing killer high-gain lead or rhythm sound to be found... which the other Engls can all do. Everyone likes the added channels... but the amp is basically the Powerball 2 with separate channels, EL34s, and a slightly different eq curve... less scooped more even/flat eq.

The Blackmore Sig is closest to the Savage 120... but more raw sounding, a little less gain and less features. The Artist Edition is the Engl-ized idea of a modified Marshall amp, with 4 gain stages and EL34s. People looking for that modified Marshall sound of the mid-80s to early 1990s should check out this sleeper amp.

Never tried the Morse, Retro, Inferno or Smolski.

HTH.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 4, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> I don't think that Savage mkii has depth knob. I still see only depth boost switch, only this time is only one button (previously it was one per presence).




Engl should have added a depth knob like the PB has. No clue why they stuck with the old "depth button". It works... but a depth knob lets you tweak more.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 6, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Engl should have added a depth knob like the PB has. No clue why they stuck with the old "depth button". It works... but a depth knob lets you tweak more.



Do you have feeling that Savage 120 is missing some bass? I believe it is fine, but when you play side by side with Rectifier....its just ridiculous how much boomy Rectifier is. Not sure if it is all usable when bass player kicks in.


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## lurè (Sep 6, 2019)

Only had a PBII and, as said previously, they're very dark and compressed and have the tendency to disappear in the mix vs other amps ( 5150, mesa mark..) but maaaan, chugging through a 4x12 oversize cab was so pleasing.

The other guitarist in my band has an Invader; is a nice amp with cool MIDI switching but I'm not overwhelmed and I prefer the PBII, plus I'm not the biggest fan of EL34.

The Blackmore's is more "open", less compressed, less gain but can get pretty brutal if boosted. You won't find as many switches or channels as the Invader or PBII but I think its strength is being simple and sounding good.


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## nightlight (Sep 6, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> I don't think that Savage mkii has depth knob. I still see only depth boost switch, only this time is only one button (previously it was one per presence).



My mistake. You're right, there's only a button. The MKII has a noise gate, a better clean channel (allegedly) and more gain in crunch 2.


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 6, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> Do you have feeling that Savage 120 is missing some bass? I believe it is fine, but when you play side by side with Rectifier....its just ridiculous how much boomy Rectifier is. Not sure if it is all usable when bass player kicks in.


It's definitely not as bass heavy as the Dual Rec, but IMO that says more about the Dual Rec than the Savage. The Savage has just enough low end to hang. With the bass at noon and the depth boost I have a thick, mean tone, which is all I need. You can get just absurd with the Dual Rec. But if you're in the market for one, you probably aren't for the other. The two amps are in most ways very different from one another. They're both great at what they do but it's not the same thing.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 6, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> Do you have feeling that Savage 120 is missing some bass? I believe it is fine, but when you play side by side with Rectifier....its just ridiculous how much boomy Rectifier is. Not sure if it is all usable when bass player kicks in.




No... not when you look at what it is. The Savage 120 is more Marshall 2203 and the rest of the Engl amps just have more bass by design (closer to Recto levels)... like the PB2/FB100/SE. The Blackmore which the Savage is based on is the same. It's not missing bass per se, it wasn't voiced to have it by design. There are plenty of other Engls with the big, huge, modern bass heavy sound. The Savage is one of Engls first amps released way back when, and you can see and hear is clearly based on a modified Marshall design. The Savage cuts better because of this and stands out more in a mix. Right tool for the job and so forth.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 6, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> It's definitely not as bass heavy as the Dual Rec, but IMO that says more about the Dual Rec than the Savage. The Savage has just enough low end to hang. With the bass at noon and the depth boost I have a thick, mean tone, which is all I need. You can get just absurd with the Dual Rec. But if you're in the market for one, you probably aren't for the other. The two amps are in most ways very different from one another. They're both great at what they do but it's not the same thing.




This +1.


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## nightlight (Sep 10, 2019)

Just thought I'd bump this thread with a big thumbs up for the emulated output on Engl amps like the Savage.

I think it's eminently usable for a live situation where you don't want to
mic the cab (therefore preventing issues like feedback). 

Thanks to the great master volume on Engls, you can also keep your stage volume low while pushing a really good signal to the FOH. 

I shot a vid demonstrating the emulated out on the Savage. Just a single tracked guitar down the centre with some reverb. No editing whatsoever. Not a tome I'd want to use on a recording, but for live, I think it's really, really good.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2O5smGnZZK/?igshid=1q5nr31kx5jl1


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 23, 2019)

Do you guys use Contour ON in Savage 120? It should boost upper mids (from 1.2kHz upwards) and cutt lower mids at around 500HZ. Some say that it cuts throu mix less and other say that it cuts better


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## Gmork (Sep 23, 2019)

Hijacking my own thread for a sec but does anyone have settings for a gsp1101 to emulate any ENGL amps?


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## Darchetype (Sep 23, 2019)

I love this thread! I constantly GAS even just to try an Engl amp since I have never seen one in the wild.

Entertaining read though!


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 23, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> Do you guys use Contour ON in Savage 120? It should boost upper mids (from 1.2kHz upwards) and cutt lower mids at around 500HZ. Some say that it cuts throu mix less and other say that it cuts better


I personally prefer the sound with Contour on. It scoops it quite a bit but the tonality of the Savage makes it still work. I don't have any issues with sticking out of the mix with Contour on, but it off also works.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 23, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> I personally prefer the sound with Contour on. It scoops it quite a bit but the tonality of the Savage makes it still work. I don't have any issues with sticking out of the mix with Contour on, but it off also works.


I thought that it adds upper mids (and cuts around 500) so it should cut better?


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 24, 2019)

Honestly, I've never played the Savage without the Contour on in a band setting so I can't really say for sure. But given I turn the mids down with the knob as well as hit the Contour and can still engulf other guitarists, I'd say it's not a problem.


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## nightlight (Sep 24, 2019)

I usually have the contour on as well, but I always turn off smooth since it makes the EQ knobs unusable.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 24, 2019)

I believe that smooth/rough is among top feature. Hit rough mode for rhytm and smooth for nice creamy solos. Sure I would like separate tone knobs for every channel, but this is nice middle ground.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 24, 2019)

But I must say that Channel 3 is giving me problems....aka I cannot get nice palm muting sounds to save my life. When playing guitar alone that is. In band mix I'm sure it would sound just fine. Loomis here is using CH3 for rhythm and it sound nice, big, saturated and full, but here I'm probably comparing just my amp versus his full production team of professionals (and band mix).


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## gnoll (Sep 24, 2019)

I only played the Savage once but ch 3 was my favorite as far as I remember. Ch 4 felt a bit too modern and saturated for my tastes.

Anyway it really made me want to switch to Savage from 5150 so if that ends up happening I guess I'll work out more properly what settings and stuff I like.


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## nightlight (Sep 24, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> I believe that smooth/rough is among top feature. Hit rough mode for rhytm and smooth for nice creamy solos. Sure I would like separate tone knobs for every channel, but this is nice middle ground.



True, it is good for that!


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 24, 2019)

I need to check it again, but I've never liked Rough mode at all. I'm always Ch. 4 and Smooth.


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## nightlight (Sep 24, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> I need to check it again, but I've never liked Rough mode at all. I'm always Ch. 4 and Smooth.



Smooth mode doesn't allow you to tweak any EQ at all, so I don't use it for anything other than solos. 

Getting a Z7 midi controller has been advantageous though. You can programme it to do stuff like turn smooth on/off, contour on and off, switch master volume/presence besides changing the channel. It's like having a multi FX amp in some ways.


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 25, 2019)

nightlight said:


> Smooth mode doesn't allow you to tweak any EQ at all, so I don't use it for anything other than solos.
> 
> Getting a Z7 midi controller has been advantageous though. You can programme it to do stuff like turn smooth on/off, contour on and off, switch master volume/presence besides changing the channel. It's like having a multi FX amp in some ways.


Apparently that only affects the mid knob, though nothing in the manual suggests that. I've never noticed, but y'all got me shook with some of this stuff. I'm gonna have to fiddle with my Savage again and see what I get.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 25, 2019)

nightlight said:


> True, it is good for that!


I believe that was intention with this option.


thrashinbatman said:


> Apparently that only affects the mid knob, though nothing in the manual suggests that. I've never noticed, but y'all got me shook with some of this stuff. I'm gonna have to fiddle with my Savage again and see what I get.


Could it be that you mistaken smooth with rough? You mentioned that you scoop mids but smooth mode ads a lot of mids.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 25, 2019)

nightlight said:


> Smooth mode doesn't allow you to tweak any EQ at all, so I don't use it for anything other than solos.
> 
> Getting a Z7 midi controller has been advantageous though. You can programme it to do stuff like turn smooth on/off, contour on and off, switch master volume/presence besides changing the channel. It's like having a multi FX amp in some ways.


I also have Z7 midi (strangly, some older version that doesn't have power selection for Z-12 controller in the back). This is ideal for all knobs on amp to be selected with single push on midi controller. I have it hooked with G-Major 2 for some effects and EQ if I want to boost mids (around 1.2KHz) and some 80Hz.


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## nightlight (Sep 25, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> Apparently that only affects the mid knob, though nothing in the manual suggests that. I've never noticed, but y'all got me shook with some of this stuff. I'm gonna have to fiddle with my Savage again and see what I get.



As far as I can tel, the EQ section is disengaged and none of the knobs work, or barely work if that's the case. 

I need to get the tubes changed in my Savage I think.


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## Gmork (Sep 25, 2019)

So for those with exp. where does each ENGL fall from (dark/low mids) focused to (bright/high mids) focused??


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## nightlight (Sep 25, 2019)

I can say that the Fireball 100 is darker than the Savage 120, but those are the only ones I have experience with.


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 25, 2019)

So it turns out you're correct Boris! I got rough and smooth mode mixed up. I've been using rough this whole time. So basically don't listen to me about anything.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 25, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> So it turns out you're correct Boris! I got rough and smooth mode mixed up. I've been using rough this whole time. So basically don't listen to me about anything.


I blame ENGL for not giving it clearer indication what mode its actually selected 
What amp does you other guitarist play? You say you have no problem in band mix?


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 25, 2019)

He plays a Jet City 100 into a Marshall 1960 with T75s. I use a Mesa with V30s. He and I have spent a lot of time dialing our tones in around each other (him more than me to be honest), and his tone is fairly middy. Not especially so but not scooped either. Despite how scooped my tone is, the tonality of the Savage is such that it still manages to easily stick out of the mix between us two.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 25, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> He plays a Jet City 100 into a Marshall 1960 with T75s. I use a Mesa with V30s. He and I have spent a lot of time dialing our tones in around each other (him more than me to be honest), and his tone is fairly middy. Not especially so but not scooped either. Despite how scooped my tone is, the tonality of the Savage is such that it still manages to easily stick out of the mix between us two.


Is Jet City 100 based on Soldano SLO? Its mids focused like 5150 or SLO? Nice to hear that Savage cuts just fine in that scenario.


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## thrashinbatman (Sep 25, 2019)

It is, I believe. It's not the same as a SLO but is surprisingly similar. It is pretty mid-focused, I find, though I have very little personal experience with it, just what I've heard from the other guitarist. I had an Engl Thunder that even with the mids cranked would get swallowed by the Jet City. The Savage hangs in there just fine.


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## Emperoff (Sep 26, 2019)

I've got a Sovereign 212 which is the combo version of the Savage SE minus all the switches. It's crazy versatile.

Sounds quite similar to the Blackmore, which always was my favourite ENGL amp. The clean channel are way fatter than *ball series and overdrive easily if you let it. They also sound more "classic", if that's such a thing with ENGL.

Channel 2 is ok enough but sharing the EQ with the clean tone is a bummer since I always end up wanting less mids on the clean channel, and more on the crunch channel.

Channel 3 is stupidly tight and agressive, not a lot of bass on it and a great high mind grind.

Channel 4 is fatter and more compressed. With more gain available as well. Obviously designed as a lead channel, since solos on it sound remarkably batter than on channel 3. Not tight enough for rythm stuff, but I bet an OD on it would sound beastly. I'd rather just use channel 3 for that, though.


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