# Looking for a 7 String Dream Guitar



## MindDusk (Jan 2, 2012)

I have now saved up plenty of money but for months I still find it very hard to navigate in this jungle of guitar, I am not sure yet what to buy, all I know I want premium top quality guitar that makes me inspired to play and that sounds amazing with great sustain. I want a neckthrough guitar with good pick ups both for heavy dist and liquid clean guitar.

When it comes to pickups..color...shape I am not sure yet, I guess I am still trying to find that guitar that makes me get that "must have" feeling...

I would consider to buy a custom made guitar. Price is not a problem, I tend to have this guitar for the next 10 years. So no I am not intersted to buy a massproduced Ibanez guiatr or something like that, now I once for all want to spoil myself with a real premium guitar that is perfect.

The music I play is metal, ambient, mostly...but I really need to say even though I play metal , it is mixed with a lot of clean guitars also so that is certainly one very important aspect, that I get a good clean wide/deep tone with great sustain.

Yeah too much too choose from so I could really need some guidance, I do not want to buy the first best I find, and if I look around in music stores I find mostly massproduced stuff. All recommendations are very appreciated, thank you!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 2, 2012)

It sounds like you don't know exactly what you want. As such, I highly recommend playing as many guitars as humanly possible, even production ones, to find the specs, parts, and attributes you want in a high quality custom instrument. 

It took me well over a decade to find what I want in a custom guitar, and I'm still looking for different things.


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## MindDusk (Jan 2, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It sounds like you don't know exactly what you want. As such, I highly recommend playing as many guitars as humanly possible, even production ones, to find the specs, parts, and attributes you want in a high quality custom instrument.
> 
> It took me well over a decade to find what I want in a custom guitar, and I'm still looking for different things.



Yes it is true, what I need is inspiration, and I get that if people recommend me guitars, and I could look them up, if I get the right feeling of the instrument I will buy for sure, and read as many reviews as possible for sure.
The main problem is to find guitars, and to google endless hours is really time consuming, that is why I did ask here on the forum. Cause you guys probably know what I would like.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 2, 2012)

I feel without knowing what kind of instruments you like, I'd just be regurgitating the names of builders. 

Heck, why not? 

.strandberg* Guitars | Headless, multi-scale and extended range guitars crafted for your unique requirements
Lutherie - Rick Toone | Luthier
Alembic - Fine handcrafted basses and guitars
KXK Guitars - Custom Made in the USA
&#9834; Siggi Braun - Fine Young Guitars &#9835;
Jaden Rose Guitars | British Handcrafted Guitars
// Tom Anderson Guitar Works \\
Welcome to John Suhr Guitars, Basses, and Amps - Expanding the Experience of Tone!
Vigier Guitars
Thorn Custom Guitars & Inlay
Frank Hartung Guitars - the new choice of a handmade guitars - FORGEGUITARS - Home


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## cardinal (Jan 2, 2012)

I would definitely not order a custom until you're sure you know what you want.

As for neckthrough makers, I'm not real familiar with many. There's Carvin, Bernie Rico, ESP, BC Rich, KXK, and Jackson... Maybe I'm missing some. Several others build what I think are set necks that look similar to neckthoughs, like McNaught and Daemoness. Some of these shops seem to have great service and build quality. Others, based purely on watching NGD posts here, some of these shops let some questionable stuff out the door, so do some searching on here to make sure you're comfortable with what you're getting into.


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## Bouillestfu (Jan 2, 2012)

cardinal said:


> I would definitely not order a custom until you're sure you know what you want.



Trust me you WANT/NEED a Strandberg no matter who you are 

Honestly if buying a custom doesn't bother you then you must have enough for HIGH END gear. Give the Ernie Ball Music Man JPs a try. They are VERY versatile guitars the JPX is even chambered giving you wonderfull cleans and acoustic sounds. JPs are known for being the absolute best in terms of mass produced guitars. I've tried a couple before and am saving up for one of my own. To go above JPs is to go custom.


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## Fillifax (Jan 2, 2012)

Sounds too me like you need a PRS 7-string. Good thing money isn't a problem, then.


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## MindDusk (Jan 2, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I feel without knowing what kind of instruments you like, I'd just be regurgitating the names of builders.
> 
> Heck, why not?
> 
> ...



Thanks man, yeah to get recommendations of different builders are very inspiring I will look through the list, so far I seem to fall for these guitars with a wooden finish of different sorts...I seem to like the raw elemental feel of the instrument. It looks little bit vintage but yet modern at the same time I like that....


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## Animus (Jan 2, 2012)

i'd say the soon to be released Jackson Broderick 7 strings. I have one of the prototypes and it's just tremendously awesome and reasonably priced for a custom shop level instrument.


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## leonardo7 (Jan 2, 2012)

Mayones Regius 7


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## ralphy1976 (Jan 2, 2012)

When I was searching like you I finally settled on an swirl universe ibanez

However now I think I would consider a teuffel tesla


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## Explorer (Jan 2, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> I am not sure yet what to buy... .
> 
> When it comes to pickups..color...shape I am not sure yet....
> 
> Yeah too much too choose from so I could really need some guidance, I do not want to buy the first best I find....



But it looks like you're waiting to find the first guitar which strikes you as a "must buy," without a lot of experience in what would really define a "must buy" for you. 

To echo Max and cardinal, if you are considering a guitar but don't know what you want, you're not ready to buy that instrument yet. It sounds like you're just ready to spend money, but have no clue what actually matters to you.

I find it funny that occasionally, when I consider instruments or effect, I might be indecisive, but if I then run across something which is right, I have jumped in and spent more than I was indecisive about. 

I have *never* had others give me input in terms of a custom. I knew what woods I wanted (and why), what hardware, note access, etc. 

Out of curiosity... how long have you been playing at a pro level?


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## JP Universe (Jan 2, 2012)

From the sounds of things I'd go with a high end production guitar. If you don't like endless googling I can't imagine you settling on some specs plus there's the wait time involved with a custom.

EBMM with piezo, PRS, Tom Anderson or Suhr should do the trick for you 

Then look at a custom


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## cardinal (Jan 2, 2012)

If you're not sure of the specs you really want, I would stick to only off-the-self stuff. Because resale on custom-option spec stuff is very poor relative to the original price (e.g., I'll only buy a used Anderson if the price is really good, otherwise I can order a brand new one exactly the way I want it).

After you've owned a bunch of different guitars, you'll figure out what you want (scale length, fret size, number of frets, wood types, etc. )


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

please feel free to recommend more builders/brands, it really helps...to go through and see...


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## Explorer (Jan 3, 2012)

I recommend Google.

I used to date a girl who would never decide on a restaurant, but just wanted me to name restaurants. Then she'd just say, no, I don't like those suggestions, without giving a clue as to why, or as to what she might like better. I finally got to where I would just name three restaurants, and if she didn't like any of them, she'd have to come up with three choices she liked better, or we would go to one of the ones I named (and no, I didn't name crappy ones). She eventually got to the point where she could articulate what she wanted, and knew that she wanted it.

I feel like I just witnessed the same thing here, only you're likely not a delicate 5' 1" size 0 European woman, so there's less motivation to come up with choices. *laugh*

---- 

Rather than people just tossing out suggestion after suggestion, and having no idea which (if any) appeal to you and which (if any) you hate... why not give some feedback? 

"I really liked the instruments recommended from here, but not this aspect!" 

If you can't specify what you like or don't like, of course... it gets back to not really knowing what you want. 

And if that choice doesn't come from within *you*, then you're not going to be happy with it.


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## terron (Jan 3, 2012)

zerberusguitars/custom-shop 
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RAN guitars

----

This guitar, but as 7-strings = Fantastic


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 3, 2012)

Just play lots of production guitars and see what you like and what you don't like. If one ticks all the boxes for you, get that, if not then find out what specs you'd want in a guitar and find a builder that would be best to create that. I'm sure there must be a lot of guitar stores near you with at least some 7 strings.

Finding your 'dream' guitar isn't something we're going to be able to recommend, as there are too many variables too consider. Most people spend years figuring out what works for them. You're going to have to take time to play a lot of what's out there and find out for yourself.


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

Explorer said:


> I recommend Google.
> 
> I used to date a girl who would never decide on a restaurant, but just wanted me to name restaurants. Then she'd just say, no, I don't like those suggestions, without giving a clue as to why, or as to what she might like better. I finally got to where I would just name three restaurants, and if she didn't like any of them, she'd have to come up with three choices she liked better, or we would go to one of the ones I named (and no, I didn't name crappy ones). She eventually got to the point where she could articulate what she wanted, and knew that she wanted it.
> 
> ...



To get informed by different builders does certainly help a lot.. the more builders I find the more certain I get what I want...

Also I want to make sure before I buy that I have been looking at all possible alternatives so I do now what is out there..



Explorer said:


> But it looks like you're waiting to find the first guitar which strikes you as a "must buy," without a lot of experience in what would really define a "must buy" for you.
> 
> To echo Max and cardinal, if you are considering a guitar but don't know what you want, you're not ready to buy that instrument yet. It sounds like you're just ready to spend money, but have no clue what actually matters to you.
> 
> ...



Trust me there is a lot of instruments that I would really like..but currently I am drowning in the ocean of choice...But I think for every day I am getting closer to what I want..that I want a guitar with wooden finish does for instance filters out most of the choice dramtically... There is a few guitars that I already consider, but I want to find more guitars and more builders, then make a list of let's say 10 guitars then I will have to narrow it down and at last decide what guitar I want... 

When it comes of choosing right pickup..that can take many weeks of goggling to research more of what the market has to offer and what pickups that is right for me... 

I have not tried enough picksups and guitar to really be sure..

But I can tell you, I was very happy with my EMG pickups for my 8 string RG2228 for CLEAN sounds..it sounded very deep and rich for clean sounds...for distorted sound I was less impressed... for clean sounds Active pickups also fills the purpose of being very clean...no electric disturbance leaks into the sound...but on the other hand my experience with passive pickups is cheaper non-highend...

Well pickups I guess will be a later problem...but I am for sure ready to pay extra for the best pickups if it is justified.



terron said:


> zerberusguitars/custom-shop
> ----------
> RAN guitars
> 
> ...




While it looks nice, I would prefer a bigger body guitar, and with wodden finish and not colored, I prefer the raw organic look. 

I would prefer the Evil Morpheus, but I am kind of sure it is bolt on neck (south korea ?) The pickups looks very nice...kammerstein...no idea how they sound... anyway I like the finish of that guitar.



vampiregenocide said:


> Just play lots of production guitars and see what you like and what you don't like. If one ticks all the boxes for you, get that, if not then find out what specs you'd want in a guitar and find a builder that would be best to create that. I'm sure there must be a lot of guitar stores near you with at least some 7 strings.
> 
> Finding your 'dream' guitar isn't something we're going to be able to recommend, as there are too many variables too consider. Most people spend years figuring out what works for them. You're going to have to take time to play a lot of what's out there and find out for yourself.



Well everyone does not live in America with big music shops and with a lot of guitars, Almost all guitars I have bought online, so it is the best choice for me. As long as it is good instrument I am sure I will get used to it.. but I am tired of play cheap budget plastic crap, I want a guitar with real good sound.



Animus said:


> i'd say the soon to be released Jackson Broderick 7 strings. I have one of the prototypes and it's just tremendously awesome and reasonably priced for a custom shop level instrument.



That guitar looks little bit to conventional for my taste, looks like a guitar that every metal guitarist have.. I want something that feels and looks more organic.

I also try to find youtube clips... of each guitar I find interesting... for instance the strictly7 guitars sounds impressive to my ears...


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## Bouillestfu (Jan 3, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> I also try to find youtube clips... of each guitar I find interesting... for instance the strictly7 guitars sounds impressive to my ears...


If strickly7s are your thing, they're comming out with the Ola Englund signature Solar7 which sounds amazing but it's another black guitar


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## markbolwell54 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dmoness Guitars : News

This guy is producing some serious works of art!


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## MTech (Jan 3, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> so far I seem to fall for these guitars with a wooden finish of different sorts...I seem to like the raw elemental feel of the instrument. It looks little bit vintage but yet modern at the same time I like that....


I keep throwing up stock guitars for Bernie int he Dealer section.. you said wood finish and "raw elemental" there's a nice 27" scale 7 that's natural oil finished so doesn't get much more raw than that.


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

MTech said:


> I keep throwing up stock guitars for Bernie int he Dealer section.. you said wood finish and "raw elemental" there's a nice 27" scale 7 that's natural oil finished so doesn't get much more raw than that.



looks nice, but I think I prefer more darker wood finish. Thanks for the recommendation though I am looking at their website right now.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 3, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Well everyone does not live in America with big music shops and with a lot of guitars, Almost all guitars I have bought online, so it is the best choice for me. As long as it is good instrument I am sure I will get used to it.. but I am tired of play cheap budget plastic crap, I want a guitar with real good sound.



I don't live in America and there are plenty of good stores around where I can try stuff out. Sometimes you have to drive a bit but if you're serious about making a big purchase you want to try shit out. I'm sure there are stores around if you have a look, just might have to actually travel to them.


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't live in America and there are plenty of good stores around where I can try stuff out. Sometimes you have to drive a bit but if you're serious about making a big purchase you want to try shit out. I'm sure there are stores around if you have a look, just might have to actually travel to them.



Considering the guitars I am used to play with, I strongly believe that I will not be disspointed if I buy a high end guitar..it might take some time to get used to it however. As long as the specs and feel is good it is mostly about myself how i craft the instrument. 

But yeah I do not think it will be possible to try these kind of custom made or non-massproduction guitars... cause they do not ship all the way to my country to just let me try it and then send it back.


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## terron (Jan 3, 2012)

> I would prefer the Evil Morpheus, but I am kind of sure it is bolt on neck (south korea ?) The pickups looks very nice...kammerstein...no idea how they sound... anyway I like the finish of that guitar.



I think It's set neck, and Custom Shop is made in Germany. 






for *more pics* you can see this link Evil Morpheus 

*for sound samples* Zerberus-Guitars Soundsamples

*Contact* http://www.zerberusguitars.com/html/contact

I don't know more, I don't play any zerberus guitars. But the pictures of these guitars look great.


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

terron said:


> I think It's set neck, and Custom Shop is made in Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While looks are important, the sound is first priority for me, most people I think buy a guitar juding with the eye and not the ears. would be intresting to hear those Kammerstein pickups, which I think are kind of rare..they look very cool...but I am not a poser I will not buy something just because it looks good though.. I think the body is kind of small...buy the looks at it I can't imagine it is "big sounding" ..but I might be wrong.. The bodyshape might remind me too much of usual 7 string ESP guitars but with wooden finish..I want a fixed bridge..cause I also want a guitar that easily maintained, floating bridge usually means a lot of problems especially when changing strings.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 3, 2012)

If you're after that modern yet traditional look I would suggest Vik. His communication has been nothing short of great, he's ALWAYS on FB chat so I rarely even have to email him with questions 



Anyways here's some pictures of his previous work:


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## MindDusk (Jan 3, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> If you're after that modern yet traditional look I would suggest Vik. His communication has been nothing short of great, he's ALWAYS on FB chat so I rarely even have to email him with questions
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways here's some pictures of his previous work:



Yes the VIK guitars is one of those I consider more seriously... they give an impression of quality. I like the Duality Guitar. But still looking for more builders...I did read today that you will not be able to buy Blackmachine guitars anymore... too bad..seem to be a good builder for more extreme guitars...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 3, 2012)

I would really really recommend Vik. He is also one of the few builders listed on here with:

A) Long term build experience
B) No stories about a lapse in communication
C) No stories about going wayyy over promised build times
D) No stories about other random bullshit


I know some people might not value communication very much but I'll say this much, I nearly wired him 10k instead of 1k for a payment and when I told him it might need to be transferred back immediately he responded in an hour. Can you imagine how I would feel if I had no idea what was happening with 10k that had been wired overseas and he had responded in a manner that most luthiers take? (2 weeks+!)

Needless to say it was nice knowing if the wire did go through then he would be able to transfer it back immediately


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## littledoc (Jan 3, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Well everyone does not live in America with big music shops and with a lot of guitars, Almost all guitars I have bought online, so it is the best choice for me. As long as it is good instrument I am sure I will get used to it.. but I am tired of play cheap budget plastic crap, I want a guitar with real good sound.



Despite what Max said, it doesn't really sound to me like you know what you want. You said you wanted a premium guitar with good pickups. Well, who doesn't? And a neck-through, which narrows your options considerably in the 7-string market. 

Before you spend thousands on a custom, you should know several things, like:

- What scale length?
- Tremolo or fixed bridge? What kind? 
- What size frets? Stainless steel or nickel?
- What kind of pots? Just a volume? Volume + tone? 2 volumes + tone?
- What kind of neck profile? Thinner, thicker, d-shaped, c-shaped? 

Another thing: don't get too sucked in by all the fancy burl-maple tops and zebrawood you see around here. Virtually all of the upcharge in that is aesthetic, and to give a custom guitar a sense of uniqueness. Tone wise, a premium slice of basswood (like on an Ibanez Prestige) is going to produce just as rich a tone as some obscure, expensive wood. I'm not saying don't get that stuff, just that the other stuff  the feel and playability  should always take precedence over aesthetics. 

I totally get that you're lusting after that perfect guitar, but in my experience, guitar purchasing is an evolving process. I've owned many guitars and over the years have found various features I like, and others I dislike. I've found pickups I like, and others I don't. And honestly, while my current custom axe is sort of the apex of my experience and personal taste, it's still not perfect. All guitar buying involves compromise.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 3, 2012)

The upcharge on woods for burl tops and what not is totally aesthetic, if you ask any luthier what it does for the tone they'll tell you it fucks it up


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## MindDusk (Jan 4, 2012)

littledoc said:


> Despite what Max said, it doesn't really sound to me like you know what you want. You said you wanted a premium guitar with good pickups. Well, who doesn't? And a neck-through, which narrows your options considerably in the 7-string market.
> 
> Before you spend thousands on a custom, you should know several things, like:
> 
> ...



It is true I am not that sure what guitar I want, I am quite open to suggestions right now.. But yeah I am aware it is important to think through before spending that much money. But right now I want to look around at different smaller builders and see what the market has to offer. 
I probably do not want a 100% custom guitar, simply cause I do not have a picture in my head of what that guitar would be like, and it would be more expensive then it would have to be... I think I rather find a guitar from some smaller builder, then make certain modifications to it, like make different pickups, and what kind of finish and color pattern etc...

I was quite happy with the scale length with the rg2228 which was 27 inches. so I would like to have that and from what I have heard it is a good balance..if you go beyond 27 you meet new problems etc...

I want a fixed bridge, mainly cause I am tired to death of bridges that does not keep tune or that is a nightmare to maintain and change strings... I want as few as possible obstacles to get in the way of my playing, so it is important for that it is easy to change strings...I am tired of floyd rose.

The size of frets, I guess I have not decided yet. Not sure if there should be a difference between stainless steel or nickle frets, I assume you mean it affect the sound ? in that case I am not sure n what way, I always been using stainless steel frets, so I guess that is the most common type. 

What kind of pots, that is things I would decide the last. The find the right guitar body and finish would be no 1. Then the small details, but I would probably want two, but a third one could be interesting to use maybe in some creative way..not sure what yet though.

Neck profile hmm, All I can say is that I am used to wizard II and Ibanez necks, so in all honesty I have not much to compare too, but I have tried les paul a few times and it did felt kind of unflexible , but it was probably cause I was not used to it... and considering I did adapt well to an 8 string guitar for 1 year I am sure I can adapt to different kinds of necks...But I guess the choice of neck size also will affect the sound, if I want a bigger sound I assume you want a bigger neck ? I Guess I will need to find some kind of compromise between sound and play-ability.



Stealthdjentstic said:


> The upcharge on woods for burl tops and what not is totally aesthetic, if you ask any luthier what it does for the tone they'll tell you it fucks it up



"The upcharge on woods for burl tops " maybe it is the language barrier, but what is exactly do you mean ? 

in my case I am very important if I buy a guitar that sound goes before aesthetic, I want a guitar that sounds good, and since I play very slow music sustain is really of big importance.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 4, 2012)

It seems like you still aren't aware of a lot of little things and how they affect the sound, I would stay away from a custom for now unless you have money to burn. I think you would easily be satisfied with a high quality production guitar, which is a good thing!


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## MindDusk (Jan 4, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I would really really recommend Vik. He is also one of the few builders listed on here with:
> 
> A) Long term build experience
> B) No stories about a lapse in communication
> ...



Yes VIK has been giving me a very serious impression so far.
But I need to look at more builders before I make a choice, I have a few to choose from right now, but i need to find more before I decide what builder is the right one for me.



littledoc said:


> Another thing: don't get too sucked in by all the fancy burl-maple tops and zebrawood you see around here. Virtually all of the upcharge in that is aesthetic, and to give a custom guitar a sense of uniqueness. Tone wise, a premium slice of basswood (like on an Ibanez Prestige) is going to produce just as rich a tone as some obscure, expensive wood. I'm not saying don't get that stuff, just that the other stuff  the feel and playability  should always take precedence over aesthetics.
> 
> I totally get that you're lusting after that perfect guitar, but in my experience, guitar purchasing is an evolving process. I've owned many guitars and over the years have found various features I like, and others I dislike. I've found pickups I like, and others I don't. And honestly, while my current custom axe is sort of the apex of my experience and personal taste, it's still not perfect. All guitar buying involves compromise.



Yes you are right the aesthetic might fool the eye..but yeah but what appeals to me with the fanzy burl maple tops and zebrawood, is that they literally smell quality wood, and I guess the eye might fool one to believe that it produce superior sound also.. Yeah...but how to know.. the difference.. I guess there is a supreme difference between different builders in this regard. A lot of people buy because of the aesthetic in first hand, sure many of these guitars sound probably very good, but it is all relative to what you compare too, that is why I want to be sure that I choose a good builder, who prirotize the sound and sustain/tone beyond anything else.

I wonder, is there some kind of list on this forum of guitar builders, that I can goo through, the builders recommended in this thread is just a fraction I can imagine.


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## mountainjam (Jan 4, 2012)

Whats your price limit?


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## Danukenator (Jan 4, 2012)

My suggestion would be to compile a list of exact specs you want. Every detail from the straplocks to the tuners needs to be noted. 

Next start shopping around different brands for the shape you want. If you want a super-strat then you have more options then an ergonomic shaped fanned fret monster with 13 strings. If you can't find a shape, some companies can make the one in your head for a rather reasonable fee.

You want the bang for you buck. Don't compromise a detail (small ones aside ie. AAAA maple vs AAAAA maple) to get a better price, if it's not the way you wanted it, it ain't a dream guitar.

Some places to start. (Good bang for buck)

Oakland Axe Factory
Ran Guitars
Martian Siggery (Contact him, don't be put off by the bad website design)

And a bazillion others. I like those above because they have models with a very reasonable base price and good customer support. I too am shopping for a custom right now.


EDIT: Be careful with optional top woods. I've seen stupidly overpriced top woods that really aren't of the rarity or quality to justify their enormous price tag.


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## MindDusk (Jan 4, 2012)

mountainjam said:


> Whats your price limit?



My absolute limit would be 4300...but I am quite sure the guitar I will end up with will be quite cheaper then that... but if the price is justified and I really want the guitar I Do not mind to pay my full budget. Guitars is my interests, it is not like I have much better things to spend the money on so to speak.



Danukenator said:


> My suggestion would be to compile a list of exact specs you want. Every detail from the straplocks to the tuners needs to be noted.
> 
> Next start shopping around different brands for the shape you want. If you want a super-strat then you have more options then an ergonomic shaped fanned fret monster with 13 strings. If you can't find a shape, some companies can make the one in your head for a rather reasonable fee.
> 
> ...



The truth is I do not have enough knowledge to know exactly what parts to choose from, that is why I prefer to have some kind of template to work from, i.e not a custom guitar from scratch, I rather find some template/prototype then add or draw things from that specific guitar, I would put a lot of trust in the builder that it is premium stuff on the guitar.

I know nothing about different kind of woods and how they sound, it is a whole art in it self. 

The most important for me for my custom guitar is the scale length and the pickups. Then I would probably leave a lot up to the builder to come with suggestion which would fit the guitar, and he would give me different alternatives of different wood finishes design etc.

It would be just stupid of me to make an 100% custom guitar when I do not know all the science and knowledge about guitar building. I am mostly a player not a guitar builder, I Am no expert in woods..different kind of pickups..that is why I am here on this forum to get help and suggestion of what I should buy.

I want a baritone 27 inch neck, kind of big body with wood finish, and divine sustain and great tone. 

As far as the pick ups I want the bridge pick up to sounds very good with high distortion a good warm sound, with nice analog harmonics. Somewhere in between the cleanness of EMG but more analog sounding with subtle tube like/shimming harmonics ( not single coil harmonics ala Stratocaster).., a very broad deep modern sound but with analog flavor.
The large scale and body I hope will produce the broad and deep sound naturally...

I probably want three pick ups, neck, middle and bridge. the middle pickup and neck pickup I will mostly use for liquid clean sounds.

I will check out Oakland Axe Factory and Martian Siggery.


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## Pablo (Jan 4, 2012)

Seing as you live in Denmark, you really ought to consider local builders before looking for solutions in e.g. the US. In my book, the term "local" pertains to anywhere you would go in person to meet with a builder and subsequently pick up an instrument... to me that makes parts of Sweden and Germany "local".
Moreover, I wouldn't want to have a custom guitar built without meeting the builder personally and sampling previous builds... but that's probably just me...

For a couple of local custom options check out:

Mørch Guitars
Hansen Guitars
Rahbek Guitars

These three Danish builders all make excellent guitars and will make you pretty much whatever you want... even if their webpages mainly deal with variations over classic themes.

Personally, I'd probably take a trip to Sweden to check out Strandberg Guitars and brace myself for a bit of a wait... but I like oddball solutions and love headless guitars so that's probably just me.

Cheers

Eske


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## Animus (Jan 4, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> It is true I am not that sure what guitar I want, I am quite open to suggestions right now.. But yeah I am aware it is important to think through before spending that much money. But right now I want to look around at different smaller builders and see what the market has to offer.
> I probably do not want a 100% custom guitar, simply cause I do not have a picture in my head of what that guitar would be like, and it would be more expensive then it would have to be... I think I rather find a guitar from some smaller builder, then make certain modifications to it, like make different pickups, and what kind of finish and color pattern etc...
> 
> I was quite happy with the scale length with the rg2228 which was 27 inches. so I would like to have that and from what I have heard it is a good balance..if you go beyond 27 you meet new problems etc...
> ...




You shouldn't equate "bigger" with bigger sound. My best sounding guitar as far as full range tone, is my Jackson SLATQH. THe guitar is tiny compared to others but it very resonant with awesome lows and lot's of sustain. I was actually surprised the way it sounded when I first plugged it in. Bigger guitars can also equate to muddy sounding guitars.


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## Blind Theory (Jan 4, 2012)

I have to agree with what I've read in here from some people. It doesn't look like you know what you want. A production guitar can be just as good, if not better than a custom shop guitar, so that can open doors. I own a USA Dean RC7 that is custom shop but only color wise. Specs and everything else is exactly what you'd get on any other USA RC7. The guitar is fucking unbelievably amazing. It is like sex in your hand man...maybe I could use a better analogy 

Either way, my point is, you can get a USA or an Ibanez Prestige or one of the higher dollar ESP 7's or a plethora of others that are just as good as any custom shop. And the biggest selling point there is you don't have to wait half a year for one. Of course, if your heart is set on a custom shop guitar from a company that hand builds everything then there is no persuading or whatever. All I can say if that is the case is look up as many custom shop guitars (whether it is on this board or others) and find exactly what kind of finishes, woods, pickups, tuners, bridge, nut, fretboard wood, bindings/inlays, etc, etc, etc that you want before you commit to anything. Because nothing is worse than putting up a ton of cash for something and then not liking it because you didn't do your homework.


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## Explorer (Jan 5, 2012)

Wait a minute... you're relatively close to Strandberg?

/thread. 

If you can't articulate why you don't want a Strandberg, then you shouldn't reject them.

And, if you can, then you should start figuring out how to use a search engine like Google, rather than waiting for others to bring search results to you. You found SevenString.org, didn't you? Same thing.


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## MindDusk (Jan 5, 2012)

Pablo said:


> Seing as you live in Denmark, you really ought to consider local builders before looking for solutions in e.g. the US. In my book, the term "local" pertains to anywhere you would go in person to meet with a builder and subsequently pick up an instrument... to me that makes parts of Sweden and Germany "local".
> Moreover, I wouldn't want to have a custom guitar built without meeting the builder personally and sampling previous builds... but that's probably just me...
> 
> For a couple of local custom options check out:
> ...




Yes I strongly prefer within EU, cause there will be no custom tax...and it feel in general more safer. I usually buy guitars from Germany or belgium, have had no problems so far. Thanks for those recommendations.



Animus said:


> You shouldn't equate "bigger" with bigger sound. My best sounding guitar as far as full range tone, is my Jackson SLATQH. THe guitar is tiny compared to others but it very resonant with awesome lows and lot's of sustain. I was actually surprised the way it sounded when I first plugged it in. Bigger guitars can also equate to muddy sounding guitars.



Yes, it might be a mistake to equate "bigger" with bigger sound... but the body size should be one of many factors ? of course...all elements play their part in creating the sound. With Acoustic guitars it is however true... bigger sound bigger..

I am still not sure what kind of wood that produce best sustain etc..



Blind Theory said:


> I have to agree with what I've read in here from some people. It doesn't look like you know what you want. A production guitar can be just as good, if not better than a custom shop guitar, so that can open doors. I own a USA Dean RC7 that is custom shop but only color wise. Specs and everything else is exactly what you'd get on any other USA RC7. The guitar is fucking unbelievably amazing. It is like sex in your hand man...maybe I could use a better analogy
> 
> Either way, my point is, you can get a USA or an Ibanez Prestige or one of the higher dollar ESP 7's or a plethora of others that are just as good as any custom shop. And the biggest selling point there is you don't have to wait half a year for one. Of course, if your heart is set on a custom shop guitar from a company that hand builds everything then there is no persuading or whatever. All I can say if that is the case is look up as many custom shop guitars (whether it is on this board or others) and find exactly what kind of finishes, woods, pickups, tuners, bridge, nut, fretboard wood, bindings/inlays, etc, etc, etc that you want before you commit to anything. Because nothing is worse than putting up a ton of cash for something and then not liking it because you didn't do your homework.



Of course production guitars are very good guitars usually, but to find a baritone necktrough production guitar is a very small market... Also I think most of production guitars look to conventional for my taste.

The waiting time is indeed...a good point..I see VIK guitars have 3-6 months.. but I think that is for the standard model, if you want a custom it can take up two 12 months... It would seirously suck to have to wait more then 6 months for a guitar... soo much creative time that goes to waste...

Ibanez is the only kind of guitar I have owned in my whole life, I hope you understand that I am done with Ibanez guitars...

I want a guitar which feel and look more unique...



Explorer said:


> Wait a minute... you're relatively close to Strandberg?
> 
> /thread.
> 
> ...



I would not mind a Strandberg, but not as my primary guitar, I am not so sure I like the shape of the guitar soo much. And from the clean sound demos I have heard, it does not have the sound I am looking for..maybe cause those I heard was not baritone guitars...which have a distinctive sound.


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## cardinal (Jan 6, 2012)

One of the real benefits of going custom with a reliable luither is that you can talk to them about the tone and sustain/attack that you want. Guys like Suhr and Anderson have a good sense of how their wood stash interacts with their construction methods and pickups and can point you in the right direction. I assume the well regarded shops in the EU are no different and would be happy to provide their input while you're deciding on specs.


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## MindDusk (Jan 6, 2012)

I need to order a guitar as soon as possible, but right now I am not getting any closer to actually buying a guitar, this process is doomed to take very long time. I would not thought it would take so long to decide what guitar... 

And at the same time I do not want to stress myself, I want to be sure I get the best guitar possible for the price. And since I am not able to try the instrument before i buy it, I need to know what I buy, that is has right wood and build quality. So I need all help from you guys to put me in the right direction. I am drowning in the ocean of choice..

And just choosing the right pickup will be a serious headache so many pickups to choose from...



cardinal said:


> One of the real benefits of going custom with a reliable luither is that you can talk to them about the tone and sustain/attack that you want. Guys like Suhr and Anderson have a good sense of how their wood stash interacts with their construction methods and pickups and can point you in the right direction. I assume the well regarded shops in the EU are no different and would be happy to provide their input while you're deciding on specs.




Yes it is important that the builder can be trusted also, I can imagine there is good and bad onces, some builders might prioritize profit before quality, for instance if I have no idea about wood etc..they might fool me to choose a wood that makes good profit for them...or wood that they want to get rid of...etc.. so I want to be sure that I choose a builder that really care about quality for each guitar. 

Yes, I find it absolutely necessarily to be able to have some kind of dialog about the guitar with the builder, cause I will need some expert advice in different choices of wood...design and pickups.. I guess pickups I can find out maybe on my own if I google and use this forum for an intensive 1-2 weeks.

Right now I have heard especially good things about VIK guitars, andersson, and Suhr. I guess strandberg also, but strandberg seem to mostly have a certain kind of guitar... not the guitar I am looking for.


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## littledoc (Jan 6, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> I am still not sure what kind of wood that produce best sustain etc..



It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Various woods have subtle tonal characteristics, but what really matters on a guitar is the quality of the timber. Basswood is much maligned as a low-quality wood, but when I played an RGD2127Z I was stunned at how resonate it was. 

Personally, I go for lighter woods like basswood, koa, alder or ash. Especially on a neck-through. Maple is really heavy and stable so it's awesome for bolt and set neck guitars, but I think its density makes it not quite so ideal for a neck-through. My current 7 is a koa neck-through, and the tone is perfect. Just my two cents.


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## Whitestrat (Jan 8, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I feel without knowing what kind of instruments you like, I'd just be regurgitating the names of builders.
> 
> Heck, why not?
> 
> ...


 
Some on this list... ouch price tag! But really great builders!


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## MindDusk (Jan 8, 2012)

littledoc said:


> It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. Various woods have subtle tonal characteristics, but what really matters on a guitar is the quality of the timber. Basswood is much maligned as a low-quality wood, but when I played an RGD2127Z I was stunned at how resonate it was.
> 
> Personally, I go for lighter woods like basswood, koa, alder or ash. Especially on a neck-through. Maple is really heavy and stable so it's awesome for bolt and set neck guitars, but I think its density makes it not quite so ideal for a neck-through. My current 7 is a koa neck-through, and the tone is perfect. Just my two cents.



There must be some kind of formula to make a guitar with sustain ? 
Obviously size is not a factor which I thought... scale length is one factor... and the wood... and the bridge..but I will use a fixed bridge...

Anyway as it is now I am not really getting closer to buy any guitar...
I want to find some guitar similiar to Blackmachine B7. That is not a perfect guitar, but it is probably the closest to what guitar I have in mind so far... and the VIK Duality.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 8, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Yes it is important that the builder can be trusted also, I can imagine there is good and bad onces, some builders might prioritize profit before quality, for instance if I have no idea about wood etc..they might fool me to choose a wood that makes good profit for them...or wood that they want to get rid of...etc.. so I want to be sure that I choose a builder that really care about quality for each guitar.
> 
> Yes, I find it absolutely necessarily to be able to have some kind of dialog about the guitar with the builder, cause I will need some expert advice in different choices of wood...design and pickups.. I guess pickups I can find out maybe on my own if I google and use this forum for an intensive 1-2 weeks.
> 
> Right now I have heard especially good things about VIK guitars, andersson, and Suhr. I guess strandberg also, but strandberg seem to mostly have a certain kind of guitar... not the guitar I am looking for.



Anderson and Suhr are great options, however be aware they aren't full blown customs, they won't do everything you ask for. Most luthiers make their own pickups that complement your guitar with KxK and Vik being the two that pop up to mind first.

Also if you're not sure on the type of wood you want then I think it might be best for you to take your time yet. Although I am a big advocate of spending money if you have it, I don't think it's good to spend it without thinking a purchase through, 3-5k is a nice chunk of money for a guitar.




MindDusk said:


> There must be some kind of formula to make a guitar with sustain ?
> Obviously size is not a factor which I thought... scale length is one factor... and the wood... and the bridge..but I will use a fixed bridge...
> 
> Anyway as it is now I am not really getting closer to buy any guitar...
> I want to find some guitar similiar to Blackmachine B7. That is not a perfect guitar, but it is probably the closest to what guitar I have in mind so far... and the VIK Duality.



Not really, if you pick a competent luthier sustain wont be an issue, it comes down to how well built the guitar is, IE say it was a bolt on and the neck to body joint was really poorly done, then you'd have huge sustain problems. Good luck finding a blackmachine for less than 4000 pounds btw, probably not happening


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## MindDusk (Jan 8, 2012)

ViK Guitars - Media Hopefully this was just a bad recording or something, anyway, I was very unimpressed by the sound in the duality video. it sounded not rich and deep. But I guess...it would had sounded more what I had in mind if it has 27 inch scale and maybe different pickups.



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Anderson and Suhr are great options, however be aware they aren't full blown customs, they won't do everything you ask for. Most luthiers make their own pickups that complement your guitar with KxK and Vik being the two that pop up to mind first.
> 
> Also if you're not sure on the type of wood you want then I think it might be best for you to take your time yet. Although I am a big advocate of spending money if you have it, I don't think it's good to spend it without thinking a purchase through, 3-5k is a nice chunk of money for a guitar.
> 
> ...



I will assume that the most important luthiers has been mentioned in this thead, the same names come up all the time... The VIK duality does for me looks best so far that I have found.. but I really wish I had more alternatives... the Blackmachine B7 is not in production..


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 8, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> ViK Guitars - Media Hopefully this was just a bad recording or something, anyway, I was very unimpressed by the sound in the duality video. it sounded not rich and deep. But I guess...it would had sounded more what I had in mind if it has 27 inch scale and maybe different pickups.



No, rule #1 is never ever ever evaluate a guitars sound off a clip you've heard online. Production plays way too big a role.

Here's an example, compared to that clip how much more awesome does Nolly's clip sound with his Vik?



That uses the Vik pickups + 25.67" scale


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## MindDusk (Jan 8, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> No, rule #1 is never ever ever evaluate a guitars sound off a clip you've heard online. Production plays way too big a role.
> 
> Here's an example, compared to that clip how much more awesome does Nolly's clip sound with his Vik?
> 
> ...




yeah, but how can they add such crappy sounding demo.
While the Distortion sound sounds amazing in that video.
I must say I am more curious to hear how the clean sound sounds.
I want to hear the sustain... but Yeah I guess he used that AXE FX II which is the exact same I will use with the guitar..so interesting to hear how it sounds..


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 8, 2012)

It's literally all in the mix man, some people could make a shitty $100 squire sound good, thats why you should never ever ever judge guitars sounds from internet clips


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## MindDusk (Jan 8, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> It's literally all in the mix man, some people could make a shitty $100 squire sound good, thats why you should never ever ever judge guitars sounds from internet clips



Yeah I know...My Lexicon reverbs can do wonderful things to a crappy guitar tone also...I could for sure create artificial sustain that way.. but I prefer to buy a guitar with real sustain for once..I am tired of always using reverb to compensate for bad sustain on my guitar.


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## DraggAmps (Jan 9, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> I need to order a guitar as soon as possible, but right now I am not getting any closer to actually buying a guitar, this process is doomed to take very long time. I would not thought it would take so long to decide what guitar...
> 
> And at the same time I do not want to stress myself, I want to be sure I get the best guitar possible for the price. And since I am not able to try the instrument before i buy it, I need to know what I buy, that is has right wood and build quality. So I need all help from you guys to put me in the right direction. I am drowning in the ocean of choice..
> 
> And just choosing the right pickup will be a serious headache so many pickups to choose from...



I know there are a few things that you think you want in a guitar that don't line up on any of the EBMM models, but I'd really consider them. If tone and quality are your foremost concerns, then I don't know of a better guitar that you can get right away. I don't really know of ANY better guitars, although some custom examples are equally as good and EBMM occasionally has some less great examples (in which case, send it back), too, but in general they are just as good as anything, fully custom or not, in tone and quality (IMO). Ever since the first time I played one, I've been amazed at the attention to detail and quality of part. The bridge and overall hardware is outstanding and the pickups are really well matched and sound great. Especially the BFR models, with mahogany tone blocks, alder body/wings, maple top (even on the JPX and JPXI which are painted), ebony fretboard and mahogany body, the tone is outstanding. The JPX with it's chambered body is going to be hard to beat by ANY guitar for sustain. I'm sure the JPXI gets pretty close, too, though, since it has identical woods and SS frets (supposedly SS frets improve sustain since they're really hard/dense. No idea to what extent that's true). 

They just really high quality guitars and nothing comes before tone and quality with them. They're really no-expense-spared type guitars and they're readily available. I've owned a few of them, and I've owned several customs in-between and I felt each one was as good as any of the customs and were actually better (attention to detail, tone, etc) than a lot of customs. Anyway, I'd really look deep into them if I were you, and be open minded about the specs, because unless you buy a used custom or something, I don't know where you'd get as good of a 7-string guitar without waiting for a custom.

Edit: especially since you keep mentioning sustain, you should really think about a BFR, especially the JPX-7 since it's slightly chambered and the wood/construction is a perfect recipe for tone and sustain.


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## DraggAmps (Jan 9, 2012)

But if you HAVE to judge a guitars tone by it's YouTube clips... 

http://youtu.be/3jLlK0Y4OXM
BTW, isn't this guy fucking GOOD? I believe he's a member here. I can definitely not tap and sweep that clean.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 9, 2012)

Dragg is right, OP if you don't really even know what you want I think you'd be better off with a high end production guitar like an EBMM. You can find them at relatively good prices used too.


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## Explorer (Jan 9, 2012)

Just popping in to see if MindDusk had managed to do more than shoot down all the suggestions, maybe even doing something more proactive. 

MindDusk, what did you find when you finally spent some time searching on your own?

If you don't care enough about your own question to do even a smidgeon of research on it, why should anyone else care more?

And, if your own question isn't worth investing even a bit of your own effort to do web searches, why is your time worth so much more than that of the other members, that they should do all your research for you?

So important, I'd put it in my signature.. if it wasn't already there! *laugh*


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## Erazoender (Jan 9, 2012)

I've played some Suhr's, and trust me, despite them being bolt on, the modern is the best playing guitar I have laid my hands on by a long shot. Everything just flowed so well, from one note to the next. It felt like a tool without any resistance... beautiful guitars. Trust me if you get a chance to try one, do it. You won't regret it. 

Otherwise, the Daemoness guitars out of England have some beautiful fretboard designs... I'd love to get one from them once I have enough money. I'm really into the whole Norse artwork.... 












Outside of that, Amfisound has some wicked builds.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 9, 2012)

A well built bolt on can easily have more sustain than a neck through. The reason people think oterwise is because all they've played are $400 bolt ons whereas neck trhu guitars are usually pricier


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## MindDusk (Jan 9, 2012)

DraggAmps said:


> I know there are a few things that you think you want in a guitar that don't line up on any of the EBMM models, but I'd really consider them. If tone and quality are your foremost concerns, then I don't know of a better guitar that you can get right away. I don't really know of ANY better guitars, although some custom examples are equally as good and EBMM occasionally has some less great examples (in which case, send it back), too, but in general they are just as good as anything, fully custom or not, in tone and quality (IMO). Ever since the first time I played one, I've been amazed at the attention to detail and quality of part. The bridge and overall hardware is outstanding and the pickups are really well matched and sound great. Especially the BFR models, with mahogany tone blocks, alder body/wings, maple top (even on the JPX and JPXI which are painted), ebony fretboard and mahogany body, the tone is outstanding. The JPX with it's chambered body is going to be hard to beat by ANY guitar for sustain. I'm sure the JPXI gets pretty close, too, though, since it has identical woods and SS frets (supposedly SS frets improve sustain since they're really hard/dense. No idea to what extent that's true).
> 
> They just really high quality guitars and nothing comes before tone and quality with them. They're really no-expense-spared type guitars and they're readily available. I've owned a few of them, and I've owned several customs in-between and I felt each one was as good as any of the customs and were actually better (attention to detail, tone, etc) than a lot of customs. Anyway, I'd really look deep into them if I were you, and be open minded about the specs, because unless you buy a used custom or something, I don't know where you'd get as good of a 7-string guitar without waiting for a custom.
> 
> Edit: especially since you keep mentioning sustain, you should really think about a BFR, especially the JPX-7 since it's slightly chambered and the wood/construction is a perfect recipe for tone and sustain.



I do not doubt one second that the JPX model sounds wonderful.
But as far as I know there is no 27" scale available for this model.

And Why Do I need 27" scale ? Yes Cause I am going to tune down my guitar to Ab. That is why custom is mostly the only choice for me. Baritone 7 strings is a quite small market unfortunately,and playing Ab on an standard neck will not work, and I do not like to use too thick strings.. anyway thanks for the recommendations.



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Dragg is right, OP if you don't really even know what you want I think you'd be better off with a high end production guitar like an EBMM. You can find them at relatively good prices used too.



again I want a Baritone guitar.


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## blaaargh (Jan 9, 2012)

That's just 3 semitones down. You don't need a baritone for that. I tune my 25" guitar down to a G on the lowest string, and I use a .64. Works fine for me.


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## MindDusk (Jan 9, 2012)

Explorer said:


> Just popping in to see if MindDusk had managed to do more than shoot down all the suggestions, maybe even doing something more proactive.
> 
> MindDusk, what did you find when you finally spent some time searching on your own?
> 
> ...



To be on this forum I would consider to be a good way to do "research" and to share and gain knowledge from you guys...if you do not want to contribute no one is forcing you. 

I have not been turing down all suggestion, there is many suggestions I am still considering.



blaaargh said:


> That's just 3 semitones down. You don't need a baritone for that. I tune my 25" guitar down to a G on the lowest string, and I use a .64. Works fine for me.



Exactely you are using 64 strings, I do not want 64 strings, I have used an 7 string guitar trying strings up to 85, 80, and I have now become allergic to too thick strings. in fact, if you are going to play power chords with great clarity and sustain and not muddy you should not go over 060. 064 I am sure work with a specific type of guitar playing, but I know for sure it will not fit me. I prefer then to have a longer scale which also produce better sustain and allow me to have thinner strings and gives more clarity in the chords in general.. in my music I let the bass take care of the really deep notes...



Stealthdjentstic said:


> A well built bolt on can easily have more sustain than a neck through. The reason people think oterwise is because all they've played are $400 bolt ons whereas neck trhu guitars are usually pricier



I guess there is good and bad examples of anything.. there is even neck thru guitars with bad sustain..etc...


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## blaaargh (Jan 9, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Exactely you are using 64 strings, I do not want 64 strings, I have used an 7 string guitar trying strings up to 85, 80, and I have now become allergic to too thick strings. in fact, if you are going to play power chords with great clarity and sustain and not muddy you should not go over 060. 064 I am sure work with a specific type of guitar playing, but I know for sure it will not fit me. I prefer then to have a longer scale which also produce better sustain and allow me to have thinner strings and gives more clarity in the chords in general.. in my music I let the bass take care of the really deep notes...



Fair enough... I feel like you could pull of an Ab with a .58 on a standard scale, but I do see where you're coming from.


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## Zelos45 (Jan 9, 2012)

So I just ordered a Carvin DC 700 today. Obviously you can do better than a Carvin if you have no budget - instruments like Strandberg, Vik, and other custom luthiers would be more akin to what you would want to buy. Something that is 100% tailored to your style and specifications.
The reason I brought up Carvins though was because even for a semi-custom instrument I spent _months_ researching woods, guitars, fretboard radii, neck playability, and all sorts of things before I even decided on ordering a Carvin - then the last month was spent building specs for the Carvin I wanted.
What I'm saying you have to be willing to put forth LOTS of time to find the best woods for you, the best fretboard radii for you, the best pickups for you, etc. At least with the way I'm built, I have to research a lot to insure I'm getting exactly what I want for the best price. It's a good habit to get in.
So after you decide if you'd like a bolt-on, set-neck, or neck-thru, pick the woods you would like, both body, top (if you want) and the neck, and remember some pickups are great coupled with some woods (mahogany and pickups that thin lows for example, or perhaps plywood and EMGs ).
Here's a good resource for general wood information.
http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm

After that, just go through every part of the guitar until you have exactly what you'd like. Use google a lot.
Happy building dude!


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## DraggAmps (Jan 10, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> A well built bolt on can easily have more sustain than a neck through. The reason people think oterwise is because all they've played are $400 bolt ons whereas neck trhu guitars are usually pricier



Definitely agree with this. It's because we all started out looking at cheap LTD's and Schecters and Jacksons and all the entry level models are bolt on and the "better" models are usually neck through or set-through. Plus, they just look really neat and smooth and when you don't know as much, you think it must be the best. And then someone says "neck through is the best, it has the most sustain dude", and then everyone retains that mind-set. 

However, if you look at a lot of the best guitars (Suhr, Anderson, EBMM, Caparison, lots of ESP's, J-Customs, and many, many customs, etc), they're bolt on. Tom Anderson says he uses bolt on because the constant pressure on that joint from the screws makes for better vibration transfer. Bolt on is definitely not inferior and in most cases, seems to have better sustain when built very well.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 10, 2012)

Yup exactly, their was some experiment someone did that concluded bolt-on = more sustain too. You also get that level of security knowing your neck could fuck up and you can just slam a new one in.


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## Animus (Jan 10, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> yeah, but how can they add such crappy sounding demo.
> While the Distortion sound sounds amazing in that video.
> I must say I am more curious to hear how the clean sound sounds.
> I want to hear the sustain... but Yeah I guess he used that AXE FX II which is the exact same I will use with the guitar..so interesting to hear how it sounds..


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 10, 2012)

I linked the exact vid above man


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## MindDusk (Jan 11, 2012)

Zelos45 said:


> So I just ordered a Carvin DC 700 today. Obviously you can do better than a Carvin if you have no budget - instruments like Strandberg, Vik, and other custom luthiers would be more akin to what you would want to buy. Something that is 100% tailored to your style and specifications.
> The reason I brought up Carvins though was because even for a semi-custom instrument I spent _months_ researching woods, guitars, fretboard radii, neck playability, and all sorts of things before I even decided on ordering a Carvin - then the last month was spent building specs for the Carvin I wanted.
> What I'm saying you have to be willing to put forth LOTS of time to find the best woods for you, the best fretboard radii for you, the best pickups for you, etc. At least with the way I'm built, I have to research a lot to insure I'm getting exactly what I want for the best price. It's a good habit to get in.
> So after you decide if you'd like a bolt-on, set-neck, or neck-thru, pick the woods you would like, both body, top (if you want) and the neck, and remember some pickups are great coupled with some woods (mahogany and pickups that thin lows for example, or perhaps plywood and EMGs ).
> ...



Thanks..will read more about the woods...



DraggAmps said:


> Definitely agree with this. It's because we all started out looking at cheap LTD's and Schecters and Jacksons and all the entry level models are bolt on and the "better" models are usually neck through or set-through. Plus, they just look really neat and smooth and when you don't know as much, you think it must be the best. And then someone says "neck through is the best, it has the most sustain dude", and then everyone retains that mind-set.
> 
> However, if you look at a lot of the best guitars (Suhr, Anderson, EBMM, Caparison, lots of ESP's, J-Customs, and many, many customs, etc), they're bolt on. Tom Anderson says he uses bolt on because the constant pressure on that joint from the screws makes for better vibration transfer. Bolt on is definitely not inferior and in most cases, seems to have better sustain when built very well.



Interesting... does not really make it easier to decide...neck thru or bolt on... Well I definitely want a semi custom one..cause I do not have enough time or knowledge enough to read about the science behind sustain and all that, pickups I can read cause it is easier to understand.. 
All I want is a 27 inch scale..that is important.. so if I buy a semi custom one..I most atleast be able to have 27 inch scale.. and if I should buy neck thru or bolt on..I am not so sure anymore... cause there is good neck thrus and obviously goods bolt on's also.. eveven the general perception or should I say "illusion" is that neck thru is superior..



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yup exactly, their was some experiment someone did that concluded bolt-on = more sustain too. You also get that level of security knowing your neck could fuck up and you can just slam a new one in.



I guess most people really must live in fantasy land...then..cause it is not often I hear people say bolt on is better, in fact it is the first time in my life I read in this thread..


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 11, 2012)

Thats cause people are newbs, they clearly havent been reading enough studies on sustain


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## MindDusk (Jan 11, 2012)

Animus said:


>




Yes..as peopled have said in the thread already you should not trust clean tones that has been amplified.. I guess it would be more interesting to hear it unqualified.. However..in the video amplified..I can't really say I am very impressed.. but again...with a baritone neck it would probably sound more of what I have envisioned...

I can tell you that I was very satisfied with my RG2228 for Clean sound..I think it was mostly due the 27 neck..but also the fact that the neck was also very big.. and big body.. I do not want a thin clean sound..I want a sound with a lot of "body" and sound..


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## MindDusk (Jan 11, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Thats cause people are newbs, they clearly havent been reading enough studies on sustain



Well thanks for enlightening me then... but then is the 1 million dollar question, how do you know you buy a good superior bolt on guitar and a bad one... almost all guitars are bolt on..so I guess..it is like finding a needle in the haystack.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 11, 2012)

Idk but I give up, try pm'ing max


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## MindDusk (Jan 11, 2012)

blaaargh said:


> Fair enough... I feel like you could pull of an Ab with a .58 on a standard scale, but I do see where you're coming from.



yes you can..but a baritone neck will also sound very different... so I guess it depends on what kind of sound you want..and what kind of music and what kind of speed...if you play faster music..etc..



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Idk but I give up, try pm'ing max



yeah but thanks for the help so far..I might stick with any of the guitar builders you have recommended..


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## DraggAmps (Jan 11, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Thats cause people are newbs, they clearly havent been reading enough studies on sustain



Yep, seriously. MindDusk, that's probably because most people are talking about how a $900 neck thru LTD is better than a $400 bolt on Ibanez or whatever. Hang around this forum and you'll notice a lot of high end boot guitars and hear people say bolt on is better. A lot of custom builders choose bolt on and a good portion of the rest of them choose the same construction as bolt on accpet they glue it in. But there's still a separate neck with a heel of some kind and a neck pocket.


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## Animus (Jan 12, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Well thanks for enlightening me then... but then is the 1 million dollar question, how do you know you buy a good superior bolt on guitar and a bad one... almost all guitars are bolt on..so I guess..it is like finding a needle in the haystack.




Sounds like what you want is a Les Paul then.


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## littledoc (Jan 12, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yup exactly, their was some experiment someone did that concluded bolt-on = more sustain too. You also get that level of security knowing your neck could fuck up and you can just slam a new one in.



I remember reading that on Wikipedia, though I don't know if the study was peer-reviewed or if it's been replicated, which are the real tests of its validity. 

But it seems to me like neck-throughs would actually decrease sustain simply because of the fact that you have two "wings" glued onto either side of the neck. Any time you're gluing parts of a body together, you're adding to its rigidity and hence losing tone you'd have with a one-piece body. Not to mention the fact that most neck-throughs are maple, which is a hard and dense wood not well suited to lots of warmth or sustain. 

People always talk about the "tone" effects of solid tops, seemingly forgetting that it's _glued_ _on_ to the main tone wood. If it's doing anything, it's giving you more brightness and less sustain by making the body more rigid. 

But I digress. The big question is whether this change in sustain/tone would actually be perceptible in normal playing, and I'm gonna guess probably not. The best reason for a neck through is the total absence of a heel, which can make upper-fret playing exceedingly comfortable. But a really good bolt joint, like the contoured joints of an Ibanez, provide just as good of upper fret access.


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## cardinal (Jan 12, 2012)

I've owned plenty of both well built neck throughs and well built bolt ons. I much prefer the bolt ons. I don't like neck thru guitars because I'm paranoid about screwing up the neck and being unable to fix it. Of all the guitars I've owned, it wasn't the custom shop, fixed bridge neck through BC Rich's with the best sustain. It was the bolt on J Custom (with a Floyd, no less). 

Wanting a 27" scale custom eliminates Anderson and Suhr (at least for the foreseeable future). Don't let people on a forum talk you about of the specs for your dream guitar (whether it's neck though/bolt on or scale length) but I'd make real sure I actually knew what my dream specs are before throwing down big bucks. Used values on custom instruments are horrible from any builder that's actually reliable (e.g., used Black Machines hold value well but even if the guy was taking orders, good luck getting that guitar anytime soon). But, of course if you've got the cash maybe don't worry about it.


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## Angus Clark (Jan 12, 2012)

Strictly 7 Guitars &#8211; Solar 7 signature line | Ola Englund <-- Seems like this might fit your bill.


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## MindDusk (Jan 14, 2012)

Animus said:


> Sounds like what you want is a Les Paul then.



I never really been into Les Paul. I might look what the production market has the offer... I wish there was more baritone 7 string guitars to choose from.. but there is almost a void..of supply... But all this choice gives me a serious headache



Angus Clark said:


> Strictly 7 Guitars  Solar 7 signature line | Ola Englund <-- Seems like this might fit your bill.



Looks too much like Ibanez... I am quite tired of Ibanez look I want to try something different this time... Regarding....strictly 7 guitars... I have seen they have only 27.5 inch scale to choose from in the custom shop...from what I remember long time ago..when I was reading this forum...a lot of "problems" did occur just after 27 inch.. 27 inch was the perfect balance for the RG2228... I do not remember why exact 27 inch was perfect though... and why you should not go above that.



cardinal said:


> I've owned plenty of both well built neck throughs and well built bolt ons. I much prefer the bolt ons. I don't like neck thru guitars because I'm paranoid about screwing up the neck and being unable to fix it. Of all the guitars I've owned, it wasn't the custom shop, fixed bridge neck through BC Rich's with the best sustain. It was the bolt on J Custom (with a Floyd, no less).
> 
> Wanting a 27" scale custom eliminates Anderson and Suhr (at least for the foreseeable future). Don't let people on a forum talk you about of the specs for your dream guitar (whether it's neck though/bolt on or scale length) but I'd make real sure I actually knew what my dream specs are before throwing down big bucks. Used values on custom instruments are horrible from any builder that's actually reliable (e.g., used Black Machines hold value well but even if the guy was taking orders, good luck getting that guitar anytime soon). But, of course if you've got the cash maybe don't worry about it.



Yeah good to know...then I can delete those from the list.
I am now also open to bolt on guitars...thanks for the people who did bring light into this subject..

I am now also looking what the market of production guitars have to offer... also semi customs of course..
It is getting frustrating as the time goes by to have no guitar to play with...
But hopefully it will be rewarding later and worth the wait...

I think tonight I have more or less decided VIK Duality..or some of the stricty7 guitars... I will spend some time reading up on VIK duality on this forum..regarding sustain and sound etc...also look for different custom models and finishes for inspiration...maybe I will end up to buy an vik duality custom made from an previous customer... maybe..I will choose the pickups myself though..


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## fabriarockz (Jan 15, 2012)

hello there,
maybe you want to take a look at these Excellent (imho) Italian Brands!
Rash
Manne
GNG
Frudua

Especially GNG, I mean just take a look at his works, he (Giulio Negrini) clearly defined a very modern (not ultra/post modern like .strandberg*) vision of what a SuperStrat should look/feature... it's definitely worth a quick look to their website.


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## MindDusk (Jan 15, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> hello there,
> maybe you want to take a look at these Excellent (imho) Italian Brands!
> Rash
> Manne
> ...



wow fabriarockz, Italians seem to really be able to build guitars... now VIK Duality is not the obvious choice anymore, I looked at some of the links and I find plenty of guitars that I would consider, the question is if they are able to do custom 27inch neck. the GNG's was very nice especially fanned series..they seem to breathe quality! Manne had some nice also

I have never played with fanned frets, I wonder what is the learning curve to get used to fanned frets ? I did get used to 8 string guitar kind of fast..


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## WIDASK (Jan 15, 2012)

You should consider a mayones, they are very good guitars and you can design a custom one with the woods and pickups and the scale length you want


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## fabriarockz (Jan 15, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> wow fabriarockz, Italians seem to really be able to build guitars... now VIK Duality is not the obvious choice anymore, I looked at some of the links and I find plenty of guitars that I would consider, the question is if they are able to do custom 27inch neck. the GNG's was very nice especially fanned series..they seem to breathe quality! Manne had some nice also
> 
> I have never played with fanned frets, I wonder what is the learning curve to get used to fanned frets ? I did get used to 8 string guitar kind of fast..



I'm sure there would be no problem with either a 27 scale or fanned frets.
I exchanged a couple of emails with Giulio, he's a really nice guy and he could build your guitar up to probably any specs you'd want to have, especially tone woods and tops. Not to mention a White Ebony fretboard option.

I'll try the best I can to translate the email exchange I had with Giulio:
_"Starting price would be _*&#8364;1700*_ + VAT (GNG shape, satin oil finish, fixed bridge, HH pu config).

Here's a pricelist for some of the instruments displayed on my website, they are a few examples of possible configurations/features, every model is _*COMPLETELY Custom*_.

__Morgoth 7 Montorsi Signature - _*&#8364;2562*
_Morgoth 7 Standard LG7 - _*&#8364;3177*
_Morgoth DRV7 Fanned - _*&#8364;3240*
_Morgoth FM6 - _*&#8364;3373*
_Morgoth JT8 - _*&#8364;3984*
_Morgoth DrV7 Dr. Viossy - _*&#8364;4077*
_Brea Splotch - _*&#8364;2683*
_Brea MM Carved - _*&#8364;3244*
_Brea Koa Flat - _*&#8364;3362*
_Brea Funned - _*&#8364;3618*_

Prices shown of the above mentioned models are without the following customized options:
- White Ebony fretboard, _*&#8364;279*_
- Piezo saddles, Graphtech preamp _*&#8364;392*_
- Custom Inlays, from _*&#8364;80*_
- Scalloped Frets, from _*&#8364;190*_

All prices shown are VAT-less

Waiting time: 6 months or so
Payment Method: a third of the total amount as the project begins, a 2nd third before finish/painting job starts, and the final quote on shipping.
Rigid case, warranty and Certificate of Authenticity included."_

He sent me this 4 days ago, so it's quite recent. This should give you a general idea about the process and the avaiable options. Maybe you would like to get in touch with him directly:[email protected]
I also would like to point out that, being the both of you from EU, you wouldn't have to pay Outside EU extra charges for shipping, that alone would a fairly decent 20%-25% charge.

I hoped I helped 
_Fabrizio_


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## fabriarockz (Jan 15, 2012)

WIDASK said:


> You should consider a mayones, they are very good guitars and you can design a custom one with the woods and pickups and the scale length you want



yeah, they're all good.

I'm so glad Europe is so full of potential these days, I'm pretty much sure my first custom would come from one of the European brands out there, some of them are really inspiring!
Too bad Strandberg and Blackmachine are on a huge waiting list issue right now, but I'm sure there's lots of other brands that can deliver top premium quality...


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## MindDusk (Jan 15, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> I'm sure there would be no problem with either a 27 scale or fanned frets.
> I exchanged a couple of emails with Giulio, he's a really nice guy and he could build your guitar up to probably any specs you'd want to have, especially tone woods and tops. Not to mention a White Ebony fretboard option.
> 
> I'll try the best I can to translate the email exchange I had with Giulio:
> ...



Well thank you my friend, GNG did give me a very serious impression... I am reading the site now with google translate...quite strange they have no english website, but I guess, they prefer only Italian customers. 

Anyway as it feels now I am quite sure I will stick with GNG. I get a better feeling then with VIK guitars and Strictly 7. 

Also good news that GNG accept custom mades...The price is within my budget with a small margin.

Too bad I am not looking for an 8 string guitar any more (I will probably never buy one again). But this guitar is a fucking monster!!! :O
And those pickups I am sure...is very nice..







I have not decided yet if I should go with fanned or normal frets... Fanned frets looks cooler for sure..but I am not sure how I will actually like to play it...increased playabillity should be the main purpose of fanned frets ?

This is the 7 string version... I like the body shape... I much prefer the silver bridge..I much prefer the darker color of the neck as on the 8 string model above...the pickups looks better on the 8 string...well good to know I can customize how I want it myself.. I did do not find any one with gng guitars on the forum using the search function...but I read on the site with google translate a little bit about how he build the guitars which did sound quite convincing.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 15, 2012)

Lets cool it with the funky colors please.


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## MindDusk (Jan 15, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Lets cool it with the funky colors please.



You mean...these guitars are only about aesthetics ???


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 15, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> You mean...these guitars are only about aesthetics ???



No. I just edited out all of the color tags from the few posts above. Just look at the quote and then the original post. 

Just keeping the site easy on the eyes.


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## MindDusk (Jan 15, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> No. I just edited out all of the color tags from the few posts above. Just look at the quote and then the original post.
> 
> Just keeping the site easy on the eyes.



ah


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## BlackMastodon (Jan 15, 2012)

Those fanned 8's look awesome!


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## MindDusk (Jan 15, 2012)

If I understand this correctly... Why fanned-frets? | Dingwall Guitars

Does this mean that if you have a fanned fret neck..baritone 27 inch might be overkill ?
I am not sure how many inches you gain of using fanned frets can some one explain ?
For what I understand fanned frets neck is an alternative to baritone ? 
... besides that it looks cool I am skeptic I will like playing on fanned frets..


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## Durero (Jan 16, 2012)

littledoc said:


> I remember reading that on Wikipedia, though I don't know if the study was peer-reviewed or if it's been replicated, which are the real tests of its validity.
> 
> But it seems to me like neck-throughs would actually decrease sustain simply because of the fact that you have two "wings" glued onto either side of the neck. Any time you're gluing parts of a body together, you're adding to its rigidity and hence losing tone you'd have with a one-piece body. Not to mention the fact that most neck-throughs are maple, which is a hard and dense wood not well suited to lots of warmth or sustain.
> 
> ...



How would an increase in rigidity lead to a _decrease_ in sustain?


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## ExousRulez (Jan 16, 2012)

Whatever is decision is he definitely asked this on the right forum


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## MindDusk (Jan 16, 2012)

Durero said:


> How would an increase in rigidity lead to a _decrease_ in sustain?



on an 27 in scale with fanned neck if my logic goes right... it should mean that the lighter strings gets LESS tension and the lower gets higher.. 
But I guess..it creates better balance in sustain..on all strings... (with the right set of strings). 

is there any calculator to calculate the tension on fanned neck ? 

I just want to understand...cause if I get a 27 inch scale..it means if I understand correct the the length of the scale will be different for every string..so it basically means only the lowest string will have 27 scale baritone neck... the higher strings will have non-baritone standard neck... 
Help me to understand please.


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## mountainjam (Jan 16, 2012)

Check out TK instruments if you are interested in a fan fret. Home


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## fabriarockz (Jan 16, 2012)

Zelos45 said:


> Here's a good resource for general wood information.
> http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm
> 
> After that, just go through every part of the guitar until you have exactly what you'd like. Use google a lot.
> Happy building dude!



Wow thanks, that link was AMAZING!
There's so much good information there that I could just say what wood mix I'd like to build a guitar with, and I always felt like it's been kind of a shady topic for me to dig into.

The only thing that's missing (due to obvious reasons) out of the equation, would be to apply those general guidelines to your ear.
Maybe when it does quote, referring to X wood, to have a tight low, it's indeed "almost tight" to you.
I mean, what does "opennes to a certain freq" sound like? What does a tight low freq response sound like? In a basswood body? What about in a Korina body, hard Maple neck guitar?
And even if one would have the answers for all of the above, would be still compatible with what my perception of things is?

I think that probably a good chunk of my time should be dedicated to swap guitar parts (unfortunately I'm a lefty, so I don't have the same shop variety as yours probably) with one another.
I mean I'm talking about gather mid-range guitars such as Ibanez (which happen to have lots!), so not too expensive mess with a little, and start swap a basswood body for a mahogany one, and then why don't try a Koa neck into an Ibanez standard basswood body? etc, etc, etc...
Luthier's required here, but I happened to found one fairly near! Great!

Being Ibanez RG1570L (I have 3 of them) and RG7321L (4) served as a reference's starting point, I feel like I would experiment different variations, still wouldn't cost me a fortune, like buying customs all day long and then having to sell them 'cause they don't sound the way you wanted to.

What do you think about it btw? Does anyone has some thoughts about improve's one ability to know wood properly, without having to drop grands by grands?


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## MindDusk (Jan 16, 2012)

mountainjam said:


> Check out TK instruments if you are interested in a fan fret. Home



it looks nice, but at the same time what 8 string guitar doesn't ? 
no but really... it takes more to build a 7 string that looks as monstrous.. 
But for sure I like the guitar.


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## MindDusk (Jan 16, 2012)

Well I have finally decided what guitar I want, I Think as it feels now I definitely want the GNG Morgoth. Now I only need help to what specs to choose. Mostly importantly..should I dare to choose fanned frets? or should I play safe and choose a standard neck... I suspect..fanned frets are maybe better and not so good depending on what guitar style.. I Can imagine it gets problematic playing chords... But I think it also depends on the scale length...on a 27 in scale neck...fanned frets might be more playable... 

Besides the neck..I need to choose pickups..all other things I will ask GNG for suggestions...as for art design.. etc... if he would recommend me the standard wood used in the Morgoth series..or something else more fitting to my style.


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## MindDusk (Jan 16, 2012)

fabriarockz: of course I understand that GNG is not macdonalds, but do you have idea if there is a que if you order a guitar, and how long it can take to have it build ??? 
I hope there is not a massive quie list.


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## fabriarockz (Jan 17, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> fabriarockz: of course I understand that GNG is not macdonalds, but do you have idea if there is a que if you order a guitar, and how long it can take to have it build ???
> I hope there is not a massive quie list.



hello there,
I read somewhere that Giulio has its own 20-25 guitar production per year...
And as I already mentioned, he told me average waiting period should be around 6 months. I'm pretty sure custom paintings/bindings/inlays would be an extremely time consuming process on its own, so keep in mind that when ordering.
But, really, just hit him up by email, he's more than open to everything you would want to ask, guitar related... He's a nice guy, he will tell you all you need to know to make your guitar come to life.
Don't have it avaiable now, but I'm pretty sure I left his email address on one of the previous posts on this very thread.

Good luck


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## MindDusk (Jan 17, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> hello there,
> I read somewhere that Giulio has its own 20-25 guitar production per year...
> And as I already mentioned, he told me average waiting period should be around 6 months. I'm pretty sure custom paintings/bindings/inlays would be an extremely time consuming process on its own, so keep in mind that when ordering.
> But, really, just hit him up by email, he's more than open to everything you would want to ask, guitar related... He's a nice guy, he will tell you all you need to know to make your guitar come to life.
> ...



Ok thanks for the info. Alright good to know, I had planned to do custom painting, but it depends on how much more time it will take and how much more expensive.. Anyway I still need to decide the specs...it is really hard to decide what neck..fanned or non fanned...
With a fanned neck I am unsure what neck I will have 27 or more. Need to calculate the strings, I will not use more the 060 on the lowest string tuned to G#


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## MindDusk (Jan 17, 2012)

using a 060 string on an 27 inch scale does not seem to produce enough sustain.. G,,,# .060" NW == 13.55# in tension.. this is bad news, I have no idea how to solve this...even with a fanned fret system.


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## drmosh (Jan 18, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> using a 060 string on an 27 inch scale does not seem to produce enough sustain.. G,,,# .060" NW == 13.55# in tension.. this is bad news, I have no idea how to solve this...even with a fanned fret system.



Stop with the maths! You're totally heading down the wrong path.

Sustain has less to do with the string thickness and tension than with the wood, construction method and build quality.


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## MindDusk (Jan 18, 2012)

drmosh said:


> Stop with the maths! You're totally heading down the wrong path.
> 
> Sustain has less to do with the string thickness and tension than with the wood, construction method and build quality.



so you do not consider there is any kind of limit/balance concerning tension and tone quality ? Too low tension especially on the lower strings will sound muddy at least that is my experience. Frankly I need to research more... I want to know how an 060 string sound on an 27 inch neck.


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## fabriarockz (Jan 18, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> so you do not consider there is any kind of limit/balance concerning tension and tone quality ? Too low tension especially on the lower strings will sound muddy at least that is my experience. Frankly I need to research more... I want to know how an 060 string sound on an 27 inch neck.



Excuse me, but why don't you just test it yourself and grab a Agile 727 or something... it's a 27 inch scale obviously.
Do your tests with it, sell it after you don't need it anymore and go make yourself a real guitar from a real luthier. And make sure you tried out at least 10 different wood neck/body combinations to get yourself an idea to what wood spec you would need to buy a guitar. And make sure you tried out at least 15-20 different pickup on every possible slot on all of the above mentioned wood combination to to get the idea of what suits best your needs.

Imho there's no easy way to get through this. You got to gather enough xp points .

When I was 17 (I'm 25) I saw a Jackson USA on the brand's catalog. Fell in love with it, instantly. Better than porn. It was the best guitar I've ever saw in my life. I bought from a USA dealer, with tremendous support from my parents, both financially and... parentally  (I pretty much ruined their lives for a year or so, mentioning that guitar to them multiple times a day). Years went by, I really thought I had the best I could get, 'cause it was a top notch model, no matter what.
I tried Ibanez one day, a mid-priced range one...
WTF! The neck was unbelievable, the playability was something I've never experienced before. My world fell apart and shattered on the floor instantly!
I understood that price is one thing, what suits you best is another.
I learned the hard way, 'cause my parents were so disappointed, they made me pay that guitar for sure. It's not that the Jackson has flows or something, it wasn't just the right guitar for me.

Try different brands using the same given budget, record yourself and make notes, you will end up having references to where you would like to go with your specs.

I would like to say I didn't want to offend anyone by any means, I'm not here to judge anyone, I don't feel like I'm superior to anybody, it's just a sharing of my experience.

Hope I helped a little.


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## MindDusk (Jan 19, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> Excuse me, but why don't you just test it yourself and grab a Agile 727 or something... it's a 27 inch scale obviously.
> Do your tests with it, sell it after you don't need it anymore and go make yourself a real guitar from a real luthier. And make sure you tried out at least 10 different wood neck/body combinations to get yourself an idea to what wood spec you would need to buy a guitar. And make sure you tried out at least 15-20 different pickup on every possible slot on all of the above mentioned wood combination to to get the idea of what suits best your needs.
> 
> Imho there's no easy way to get through this. You got to gather enough xp points .
> ...



I can relate to that, I felt the same about Ibanez, but my opinion has changed with time. Never felt the same about Jackson.

I am aware of Agile, they are very good value, but I prefer to not buy a secondary guitar, cause I rather save the money to buy a high end 6 guitar which I will need also after this guitar.

anyway I will email GNG and ask what he think would be best..


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## fabriarockz (Jan 23, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> I can relate to that, I felt the same about Ibanez, but my opinion has changed with time. Never felt the same about Jackson.
> 
> I am aware of Agile, they are very good value, but I prefer to not buy a secondary guitar, cause I rather save the money to buy a high end 6 guitar which I will need also after this guitar.
> 
> anyway I will email GNG and ask what he think would be best..



Hello there,
so just out of pure curiosity, did you finally got in touch with Giulio?
Anything you would like to share?


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## MindDusk (Jan 24, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> Hello there,
> so just out of pure curiosity, did you finally got in touch with Giulio?
> Anything you would like to share?



Yes. I got in touch with him, very nice a helpful guy, but I try to no ask him to many questions I try to get some help from forums too. 

Any way, I told him I want the JT8 but a 7 string model. He did pretty much give answers to all my questions, I wanted to know.

Everything is decided besides a few specs, the wood selection I trust Giulio on that one.

The neck I have decided 27 inch.

Specs I still must decide is.

Fanned or non fanned frets. I am aware of the benefits, I am more intersted in the learning curve...since i have never tried a fanned fret guitar, and fanned frets are even more different on a baritone.

Pickups, I have note decided what pickups to use. I might do a thread about this.

I have not decided if I am going to have neck through, bolt on or set neck. 
Neck through has obviously warmer tone and better sustain, but Giulio explain also more "muddy", bolt on/set has more attack and is "crispier". 
I think Giulio recommended me a set neck cause it is a great compromise. 
But I am still not decided... and how much the difference in sustain is etc.

for Ab tuning 068 would be a good choice. I am not sure how it sounds, what I did not like about the 8 string guitar I had, was that the lowest sounded like a bass string, and did not harmonize at all with the thinner guitar strings..it did basically sound like a bass guitar on top of an electric guitar when doing power chords... I hope with 068 it will still harmonize well with the other strings.

yes to sum up what I need to decide.

1. Pickups ?
2. Fanned/non fanned frets ?
3. necktrough/bolt on/set neck ?

the waiting time is 6 months so I feel that I must try to decide the specs as soon as possible so I can fill the order.


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## MindDusk (Jan 26, 2012)

I think as it looks now I atleast decide that I will go with fanned frets. I have not decide d Scale length yet. I find it kind of complex to decide cause there is benefits and drawbacks. But I think a 28 inch scale would solve some problems. The fanned frets will have less extreme angle cause of the longer scale, which makes it more easy to play. with 28 inch scale I can use even thinner strings at bottom, which is good, I do not like the idea to be forced to use 068 if I have a 27 inch scale.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 30, 2012)

Good lord man, if you can't decide maybe you should hold off on a custom for a bit, I'm all for people blowing their money on whatever they want and however they want, but I don't like seeing people make a purchase they might regret because they didn't know if they wanted it


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## MindDusk (Jan 31, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Good lord man, if you can't decide maybe you should hold off on a custom for a bit, I'm all for people blowing their money on whatever they want and however they want, but I don't like seeing people make a purchase they might regret because they didn't know if they wanted it



Well I have not bought the guitar yet, I will not buy before I am sure I get what I want. 

I am getting closer and closer I think. I have decided fanned frets now.

Now I only need to decide 27 inch scale or 28.5 inch scale. 

GNG recommended me 27" I am still unsure. What do you guys think should I get 27 inch or 28.5 what makes it even harder to choose is I will use fanned frets which I assume give different benefits and drawbacks. The obvious benefit with 28.5 would be I would be able to use a thinner string at the bottom. about 062-063 string instead of a massive 068. I know from my experience with 8 string guitar that the thinner the better, you want to come as far away as possible from the sound of a "bass string" .

I have decide that I will use Dropped Ab/G# tuning. This is to maintain a more mormal playability for the first 6 strings... Eb on the first string and Ab at the bottom. I have only calculated the these two strings for tension..I am for 17# in tension for each string which is considered "normal tension". 

len 27"

Eb .010" PL == 16.2#

G,,,# .068" PB == == 18.5#

-----------------

len 28"

Eb .010" PL == 17.42#

G,,,# .068" PB == == 19.9#

-------------------------------
len 28.5"

Eb .010" PL == 18.04#

G,,,# .062" PB == == 17.54#


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## fabriarockz (Feb 1, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> Well I have not bought the guitar yet, I will not buy before I am sure I get what I want.
> 
> I am getting closer and closer I think. I have decided fanned frets now.
> 
> ...



I think you are also aware that with fanned frets, two different reference scales are involved in the selection. The upper one (for baritone lower strings) and the lower one (for higher strings).
Did you alraedy choose the other scale?


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## MindDusk (Feb 1, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> I think you are also aware that with fanned frets, two different reference scales are involved in the selection. The upper one (for baritone lower strings) and the lower one (for higher strings).
> Did you alraedy choose the other scale?



oh my god I must been drunk or something yesterday when I did calculate that, I did totally forgot about it. Then I need to recalculate everything, Giulio told me that 27 inch is 24.75 on the first string.


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## fabriarockz (Feb 1, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> oh my god I must been drunk or something yesterday when I did calculate that, I did totally forgot about it. Then I need to recalculate everything, Giulio told me that 27 inch is 24.75 on the first string.



If you check GNG website, it'll show Giulio did (and does) pretty much every kind of fan fretting, with every scale you desire.

I think 24,75 is the Gibson LesPaul standard scale, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, did you try that scale on a guitar?
Did you try Ibanez, the most of them come with 25,5 scale, which IMO is a great compromise.

Also consider to not keep too much distance from one scale to another (24,75 to 28 would be ridicolous! IMO).
I think you don't want to find yourself to play an instrument with a "weird" feeling attached to it, you want it to be natural in your hands... 25 to 26,5 probably could be a good compromise...

I'd suggest to search Nolly's and Bulb's reviews and their personal take on fanned intruments, on this forum.


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## MindDusk (Feb 1, 2012)

I did now recalculate the tension.
------------
len 24.7"

Eb .011" PL == 16.4#
Eb .012" PL == 19.52#

Len 27"

G,,,# .066" PB == 17.58#
G,,,# .067" PB == 18.04#
G,,,# .068" PB == 18.5#

----------------
This is the dilemma I am faced with no string gauges vs neck scale and playability. I am not happy with the string gauges with the 27" neck. But my logic and knowledge fail to understand what a difference in a bigger scale would do in an fanned fret context...It gives me a serious headache.. I have tried to play around with Fretfind 2D...http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/
This is complex stuff...


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## MindDusk (Feb 1, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> If you check GNG website, it'll show Giulio did (and does) pretty much every kind of fan fretting, with every scale you desire.
> 
> I think 24,75 is the Gibson LesPaul standard scale, but I'm not sure.
> 
> ...



24.75 I have never played such guitar, the smallest I have played has been 25.5, the biggest 27", so I I find it personally strange that I would have 24.75. But as I said, I fail to understand what happens if I would increase the scale length with a multi scale neck...


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## fabriarockz (Feb 2, 2012)

MindDusk said:


> 24.75 I have never played such guitar, the smallest I have played has been 25.5, the biggest 27", so I I find it personally strange that I would have 24.75. But as I said, I fail to understand what happens if I would increase the scale length with a multi scale neck...


IMO, you could spend hours, even days trying to understand the string tension factor, scale involved, fannet frets angles, and pickups routing angled orientation benefits... if you're not going to try one, you'll miss the point of it all... the FEEL.
The Feel is the conglomerate of features that you most probably are unaware of, that makes you think of an overall intrument as either good or bad or simply not for you.
It's primarily a tacticle thing, so until you'll get in touch with one of those fanned fret guitars, you're probably going to fail in truly understanding what does that instrument really mean to you, under your hands, what benefits can add to your playing...

I read you come from Denmark, invest a part of your money in traveling to the next luthier near you with some good fret fanning skills (if there's any)... visit GNG's headquarters could be a valid option.
Try at least two fanned instruments with 2 different scaling, in order to let yourself to have some perspective on the whole topic.
Allow the whole experience to be absorbed in, at least 2 days... do not rush yourself trying to get all in one day...

As I said in a previous post, there's no easy way out...
But I suggest you, nonetheless, to embrace it, rather than avoid it...


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## MindDusk (Feb 2, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> IMO, you could spend hours, even days trying to understand the string tension factor, scale involved, fannet frets angles, and pickups routing angled orientation benefits... if you're not going to try one, you'll miss the point of it all... the FEEL.
> The Feel is the conglomerate of features that you most probably are unaware of, that makes you think of an overall intrument as either good or bad or simply not for you.
> It's primarily a tacticle thing, so until you'll get in touch with one of those fanned fret guitars, you're probably going to fail in truly understanding what does that instrument really mean to you, under your hands, what benefits can add to your playing...
> 
> ...



Yes, it is much easier to understand a regular neck scale, but multi scale makes me kind of confused..a lot more parameters to understand. I will atleast try to print out the fretboard on fretfind 2d, but as I said earlier for the multiscale options I do not understand the parameters to put in.

Yeah, but I would had to travel kind of far to be able to try a fanned guitar, I am very sure they do not have it my local shop here and most importantly not a baritone one. And I know for sure I will not like it at first, I need atleast one week to get used to it. So to just try it for 1 day or so, I think would not give you the time needed to adjust to the new instrument unless I get that insant feeling that I like it from the start, but from what I have been reading that is not the experience you have at first. My attutide is, I have to get used to it and force myself to learn the new instrument, just as I had to learn to play the 8 string guitar. But yeah the best would be of course to try before I buy it, but I work 6 days a week, so it is really hard to find the time to go outside my town or travel somewhere, to buy a cheap Agile would be an option, but at the same time it would feel a little bit like wasting money and put into the sea my hard earned money could better be used to an more high end guitar. But even if I have not tried to guitar I know what to expect kind of... I can imagine...and I still know what I like and not.


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## MindDusk (Feb 3, 2012)

All specs not decided yet but we are getting closer me and Giulio. We have decided to go with a set neck, we are still debating if we should go with 28 or 28.5" neck, the difference between 28 and 28.8 are dramatic in tension, and would allow me to use a lot thinner strings on the low strings. Body wood, neeck wood, fretboard wood, top wood, all is decided by Giulio who did recommend me this combination of woods for this specific guitar. So I am getting closer now, it usually takes some days before Giulio responding to emails, so the correspondence takes some time. but all his email are very helpful. 
Let me know what you think about the specs so far, and if you have any thoughts and suggestion feel free to comment.


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## MindDusk (Feb 12, 2012)

Giulio has not replied to my emails for soon 2 weeks now, this slow corrspondance does really delay things...Hopefully he is still interested to build my guitar... 

So I will try get some questions answered here...

Giulio did really recommend AGAINST going for longer neck then 28 inches...
but with a 28 inch scale neck I am not satisfied with string gauge and tention on my tuning. 28.5 would be perfect. I asked him if it was possible to have the bridge more further away from the neck to create bigger distance and more tension. I got the idea from watching this video 



as you can see instead of having too much longer neck, this guitar have less length/frets but the since the bridge are so far back it does compensate it's lengt... I just wonder how much further back do I need to have the bridge to compensate 0.5 inches on the neck so it tension-wise does is like a 28.5 inch scale neck.


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## fabriarockz (Feb 12, 2012)

It'a great idea, as long as you don't care about going high with the neck...

Although prepare yourself to face palm mute adjustments with that bridge positioning.
If you're going to play metal with that guitar, could be possible to find yourself to get kind of an unpleasant surprise out of it, and to possibly get in your hands an instrument that you'll end up not really liking, and that would lead you to ultimate disappointment.

I don't really understand why you choose to gear your head towards a software.
A software can handle tension maths, but cannot handle tension feel, how does it feel under your fingers, how does it react with a given pickup and how it interact with the neck, maybe it's not the way you expected to be. Only your senses have the ultimate judgement.


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## MindDusk (Feb 12, 2012)

fabriarockz said:


> It'a great idea, as long as you don't care about going high with the neck...
> 
> Although prepare yourself to face palm mute adjustments with that bridge positioning.
> If you're going to play metal with that guitar, could be possible to find yourself to get kind of an unpleasant surprise out of it, and to possibly get in your hands an instrument that you'll end up not really liking, and that would lead you to ultimate disappointment.
> ...



Yes for this specific guitar I Do not care much about the higher frets since I am not going to play much solos. But I have asked Giulio...cause I have no idea really how much further back..the neck will be needed to placed...also to increase the body size..could maybe help..

Yes I am aware of the palm muting problem..hopefully it is just a matter of adaption..But yes..Palm muting is important..

Yes true about the software but it is the only reference I have to go on...I am just allergic to sloppy strings...so good tension is for me important, and a good sound is more important. And really would I get a guitar like this if I wanted only a comfortable guitar. No it must be because of the sound primarily. But I play very very slow music so good sustain is important..cause if the sustain is not good enough, it will force me to play the music faster then I might want in some cases....as I have had in all my guitars in the past...the tension/sustain have controlled the tempo of the music..I strongly dislike that.

Yeah I really hope Giulio will reply to my emails soon, I am getting worried... I was so excited about building this guitar, but maybe he thought I did fuss too much and had to many question and was unable to decide easily. I even told him I willing to pay for the time and support I get..I really want this guitar.


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## MindDusk (Feb 18, 2012)

Right now we are standing kind of still...no real good solution yet.... really hard to choose a solution. 28.5 inch scale is a must..for tension...but...the fret distance on the 3 lowest frets...not sure..I can handle those.. maybe easier on a fanned fret guitar then on a standard fret guitar.

Is it possible to skip the 3 lowest frets, and then add more frets higher up instead on the, if you understand...


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## MindDusk (Dec 25, 2012)

my guitar is very close to be finished now only about 4-6 weeks.
I have got some pics, of an almost finished guitar, but both me and the guitar builder did agree that the color was totally wrong from what I have ordered, the wood react..different from guitar to guitar to the color.. well the wait should be over soon.


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## MindDusk (Jan 5, 2013)

He did repaint the guitar now, looks a lot better now, with the coating I think it will look amazing.

Some pics below of the current process

Photo Album - Imgur


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