# Mic placement for recording guitar



## YYZ2112 (Dec 14, 2004)

Hopefully I'm not alone here with the constant frustration when it comes to recording a fat meaty guitar tone. I was just curious as to what some of you guys do for your own recordings when it comes to guitar. 

I'll give you a little break down of what I use and do:

I'm using a Peavey XXX (and a Boogie Triaxis preamp/2:90 power amp at times) into a Boogie 4-12 and a 1-12 with two Shure SM57's for mics. I run the mics into an ART mic preamp into a Mackie board and then into a Digidesign Mbox. From there is where it gets bad. I've sat there for hours on end adjusting the mic position with little progress. There must be something I'm doing that is causing my problems here. 
Sometimes I manage to get a decent tone recorded but for the most part I'm very unhappy with the final result. Also, I think I have a pretty good tone pre-recording so I feel that I'm starting in the right direction. Can anyone shed some light on what could help me out here? 

Thanks


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## Chris (Dec 14, 2004)

Hey man. Just realized you're from New England. We could start an army with the NE guys on here. 

I've tried to get good mic'd cab tone a ton, and found that bottom right, center of the cone is the best spot (to my ear) to mic up my cab. A lot of guys bulid self contained isobooths around their cabs with solid omni in there and get good tone that way - Basically building a cabinet around your cabinet and soundproofing it to holy hell.

I ended up going direct. There's too many variables (for me as a home recording hack) involved in micing up cabs (levels, mic placement, friggin' air density, you get the idea) - it was impossible to get a consistant tone. One day I'd be recording Zakk Wylde, the next I'd be recording Wyld Stallyns.


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## Vince (Dec 14, 2004)

Usually I record direct, but when I do mic the amp, here's an idea I learned from an old studio pro that really works.

First, get 2 mics. 2 SM57s will do, but I prefer 1 SM57 and 1 AKG C1000s or some other kind of condenser to go alongside the SM57.

Let's assume you're using a Mesa 4x12 recto cab. Any cab will do, but my example works best with this one. Set the SM57 about halfway up the speaker cone, pointed at a 45 degree angle towards the outside of the speaker (pointing at the core will be too much presence). Then take the AKG and put it next to the SM57, with the end of the mic staggered about an inch to an inch and a half back from the SM57.

Here's the fun part...point the AKG not at a speaker, but at the MESA logo in the middle of the cab. This mic is not going to pick up one individual speaker, but the full weight of the cab. This works great.

When mixing these mics, pan them to opposite sides to avoid any phase problems.

Play around with this idea, and it should at least get a different sound for you, a different starting point. I think the tone off this is great, and if you couple it with a direct recorded guitar part or two that compliments it, your guitar sound could come out HUGE.


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## Vince (Dec 14, 2004)

Chris said:


> I've tried to get good mic'd cab tone a ton, and found that bottom right, center of the cone is the best spot (to my ear) to mic up my cab.



 +1


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## Drew (Dec 14, 2004)

Another thing to keep in mind- when you're close micing, remember that there's a world of difference between the tone you're hearing in the room, and the tone the mic is hearing from two inches off the speaker cone, up against the grille. 

Dial your tone up by either listening through the mic, or listening with your ear against the grille (common sense here- do this QUIETLY unless you shove pencils in your eardrums for kicks). Odds are, you'll need less treble and more mids and bass than you think to get a sound that sounds "right" from where the mic is listening. Your room sound will now be muddy and indistinct, but the mic will sound huge. 

Also, double tracking rocks. Don't copy and past, record two seperate tracks. Difference between a good and great rhythm topne, IMO. 

-D


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 14, 2004)

Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I will try these ideas tonight and let you know how I make out. 

Chris,
Are there a lot of New England folks here? You must be a Sox fan huh? I hate to admit it but I'm a Yankee fan.... The pain is just starting to pass.


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## Vince (Dec 14, 2004)

I completely agree with everything Drew said, and I'll add to it a little bit. Put the headphones on and listen to what the mic is picking up. Move the mic around until it sounds the best it can in the headphones. Of course, you'll need a good set of headphones that go over the ear and block out as much extraneous outside amp noise as possible. You don't have to be balls-out loud, but it definitely helps to push the mic. A good mic-pre can do wonders as well.


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## Drew (Dec 15, 2004)

I completely agree with everything desertdweller said, and I'll add to it a little bit too.  Someone once suggested, when micing your amp, crank the thing as loud as you want with your volume off on your guitar, and listening through headphones, adjust the mic until the NOISE generated from the amplifier sounds right. Then, return the amp to a sane recording volume and check the tone to make sure it really is- it should be pretty close. 

Even cranked (and I first tested this with a TSL-100 head full-bore), your average guitar amp's noise floor is something that your neighbors will be able to tolerate, and it's much easier to get a feel for white noise (which is blocked out by headphones fairly well) than it is to get a feel for a few power chords (which tend to carry through most headphones I've used, and mingle a bit with the headphone sound. 

-D


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## WayneCustom7 (Dec 15, 2004)

I have also heard that along with the mic close to the cone, one could also place one in the room somewhere, let's say like 5 ' away...and play with them that way...good question though, cause I was gonna email Mr. Dweller on this one!


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## Jason (Dec 15, 2004)

I have found the best way for me to record my guitar is put the mic right on the cloth of the grille and play at moderate volumes(depending tube vs. solid state) and then toss a few blankets over the amp/cab and that will deading it up elimating pick sounds and such.... Then monitor over the headphones/monitors and adjust as needed.

Also New England guy here +2


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## Drew (Dec 15, 2004)

xtranscended, where in RI? Lived in providence for a bout nine months, only moved about 6 months back. 

Room micing rocks, but you need a good-sounding, quiet room, and it's best when mixed with a close mic, too. 

-D


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## Weirdbeard (Dec 15, 2004)

YYZ2112 said:


> Chris,
> Are there a lot of New England folks here? You must be a Sox fan huh? I hate to admit it but I'm a Yankee fan.... The pain is just starting to pass.



...and you call yourself a New Englander???


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 16, 2004)

Weirdbeard said:


> ...and you call yourself a New Englander???



Well, yes I do. Here's a little unknown fact and information for the rest of the New England states.....Connecticut has an invisible line running through the state that separates the Yankee fans from the Sox fans. I happen to be a New England Yankee fan.... I'm not alone here, although, after the Sox won the World Series it seemed to bring out a lot of closet Sox fans that had been hiding since 1986. Are you guys going to stick around this season when things start not going your way or are you just going to blame the Yankess for your problems???


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## Jason (Dec 16, 2004)

YANKEES SUCK!!!!!!!!!!! .....anyway drew im in pawtucket right now on the s. attleboro line.


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## Drew (Dec 16, 2004)

Ahh. used to take the Commuter rail up through there every day. 

More importantly, YY, are you going to blame the sox for ebveryhting that goes wrong? I can't WAIT for the first "Red Sox Suck!" chant coming out of Yankee Stadium... 

-D


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## Weirdbeard (Dec 16, 2004)

YYZ2112 said:


> Well, yes I do. Here's a little unknown fact and information for the rest of the New England states.....Connecticut has an invisible line running through the state that separates the Yankee fans from the Sox fans. I happen to be a New England Yankee fan.... I'm not alone here, although, after the Sox won the World Series it seemed to bring out a lot of closet Sox fans that had been hiding since 1986. Are you guys going to stick around this season when things start not going your way or are you just going to blame the Yankess for your problems???



Yes, I have a friend that lives in Connecticut and she was saying the same thing about the line. I find the whole thing disturbing and think if you are a New Englander and a Yankee fan then you are a traitor.  We'll see what happens next year when it happens. As for right now, WE ARE THE WORD CHAMPIONS!!!!

YANKEES SUCK!!!!!! \m/


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## Metal Ken (Dec 16, 2004)

Drew said:


> Another thing to keep in mind- when you're close micing, remember that there's a world of difference between the tone you're hearing in the room, and the tone the mic is hearing from two inches off the speaker cone, up against the grille.
> 
> Dial your tone up by either listening through the mic, or listening with your ear against the grille (common sense here- do this QUIETLY unless you shove pencils in your eardrums for kicks). Odds are, you'll need less treble and more mids and bass than you think to get a sound that sounds "right" from where the mic is listening. Your room sound will now be muddy and indistinct, but the mic will sound huge.
> 
> ...


Double tracking rules. one of my friends in a thrash band likes to even record 3 and 4 rythm guitar parts for extreme heaviness. he has this skill to do it awesomely after practicing w/ a metronome for years.


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 16, 2004)

Wow, look what I started here!!! First of all, I don't think any Sox fan under the age of 25 should be able to say the "Yankess suck". You haven't been around long enough to know what a true Sox fan has gone through over and over during the "curse". Anyway, now that the so called curse is over, the Sox have nothing to blame their problems on or fall back on for that matter. You have your first championship in 86 years and now you must defend it. 
As far as the Yankees go, they had an awful starting rotation last year and decided they would rather go after more offense instead of pitching. This year I'm hoping they've learned their lessons from what happens when you don't address the most important part of a ball club - pitching. 
Okay, I'll shut up now and get back to work.......  

I forgot this is not a sports forum......


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## Weirdbeard (Dec 16, 2004)

What the fuck?? I posted a reply like an hour ago and now it's gone..........??

Anyway, what I was saying was, what happens for the Sox next year remains to be seen. As of right now, HAHAHAHAHA, not only are the Yankees the only team in history to LOSE after being up 3-0, but THE RED SOX ARE THE WORD CHAMPIONS!!!!!


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## Drew (Dec 16, 2004)

Hey, I may be 23, but I grew up under the shadow of Bill Buckner. Besides, A-Rod's so flamboyant it hurts (he f'in SLAPPED Arroyo). 

-D


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 16, 2004)

Weirdbeard said:


> What the fuck?? I posted a reply like an hour ago and now it's gone..........??
> 
> Anyway, what I was saying was, what happens for the Sox next year remains to be seen. As of right now, HAHAHAHAHA, not only are the Yankees the only team in history to LOSE after being up 3-0, but THE RED SOX ARE THE WORD CHAMPIONS!!!!!




This is all true and all Yankee fans need to accept that dark reality. 
Damn, I'm sorry I brought up the whole Yankee thing to begin with!!!  

Anyway, anyone excited about the new studio album from Vai coming out soon??? (Shameless attempt at changing the subject  )


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## Drew (Dec 16, 2004)

not really- everything since ALS has pretty much bored me. 

Besides, Vai's from New York (shameless attempt to hold onto the subject. )

-D


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 16, 2004)

Drew said:


> not really- everything since ALS has pretty much bored me.
> 
> Besides, Vai's from New York (shameless attempt to hold onto the subject. )
> 
> -D




 Good one! 

I think this thread is dead


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## Elysian (Dec 18, 2004)

i know this isn't how everyone does it, but this is what i learned when talking to Tim Aymar(singer of Control Denied, Chuck Schuldiner's last project before he died) about Chuck's studio setup... the studio they recorded at used 1 AKG 414 mic 6" away from the speaker at a 25 degree angle to the cone, and then used a Shure Beta 57 2 feet away pointed towards the cab... thats how Chuck was recorded on The Sound of Perserverence(last death album) and the Fragile Art of Existence(only Control Denied album, for now at least...)... i've messed with the specs Tim told me with my Antares Mic Modeler, and got very good results, got almost identical tone to chucks...


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## Robbue (Feb 17, 2005)

Also remember to back down a little on the distortion/saturation. You would be surprised at how little you really do need to get a great chunk sound. Definetly double track your guitar parts and use different PU's or eq settings for each pass as this will create a more diverse sound and if you can, use different mics. I personally dont like the sm57. My cheaper favs are the AKG 414 and the sm58. My expensive fav and mic I use most now is the Royer R121. That mic is unbelievable. 

Hopefully you have the ability to separate yourself from the amp itself when listening to your mic positions and amp settings via the monitors. I always develop my recorded sound by moving the mic around and determining with the amp settings from what I hear in my monitors. I think it's easier to find your sound that way. We never hear an amp the same way the mic does so dont fight it. JM2C



------------------------
Mix of Rock, Metal & Jazz
http://www.visualcliff.net


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## Vince (Feb 18, 2005)

Elysian said:


> i know this isn't how everyone does it, but this is what i learned when talking to Tim Aymar(singer of Control Denied, Chuck Schuldiner's last project before he died) about Chuck's studio setup... the studio they recorded at used 1 AKG 414 mic 6" away from the speaker at a 25 degree angle to the cone, and then used a Shure Beta 57 2 feet away pointed towards the cab...



You guys would be suprised how good this sounds. Nice find Elysian!  

One thing to always remember, your speaker cabinet has great resonance and is usually bassy as hell. When I record my mesa 4x12, I usually point one mic at a speaker (depends on how, I try many configs) and one mic pointed right at the middle of the cab near the Mesa logo. They usually phase a little (so mix L vs. R) but the sound is absolutely dynamic.

Mic the speaker, and either mic the room or the cab, you'll get great results.

Oh, and to the guy that says Vai's music hasn't done much for them since Alien Love Secrets, man, pick up Fire Garden!! It's one of the best albums I've ever heard!!


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## Drew (Feb 18, 2005)

Own it.  

It's got its moments - "Dyin' Day," "Hand on Heart," and "Warm Regards," one of my favorite vai tracks, and the fire garden suite is pretty out there but pretty impressive, but, well... Eh, it's good, it's just not for me. He started branching off in a direction that he's just RUN with since. 

-D


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## YYZ2112 (Feb 18, 2005)

Fire Garden is incredible! I can listen to that album anytime of the day and can find something to satisfy my musical cravings. I can't wait for next week with the release of his new one. I like what I've heard of it with the clips he has posted on his site. Although, I'm not sure he can ever top Fire Garden.


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