# Line 6 Helix Stomp (with some questions) vs. FrAcTaL FM3



## coreypla (Feb 21, 2020)

SevenString Rockers and Gear Experts !!!!

I've been out of the FX loop (lol) for a while now.

I was looking to pick something up that was reasonably portable and sounding awesome! I currently have that Axe FX 2 XL+ that everyone is raving about and its great! But I was thinking about picking up the Line 6 Helix Stomp (and I kind of like the blue color at Guitar Center) for some late night early morning mid afternoon fun.

The Blue Helix Stomp Guitar Center unit is a bit cheaper too, and I can't seem to find it anywhere else besides Guitar Center. So whats the deal? Is it the same as the standard black Helix Stomp pedal? Pay a bit less for blue than black? Double you tee eff. 

Is that Helix Stomp a good unit (if you own it and have been rocking on it)? 

I also know that Fractal has the FM3 for $999.99 , not as much as California rent, but still a hefty price jump up from the blue helix stomp I am looking at. Needless, it has caught my eye.

What is your opinion between the two? I want to hear from the Gear Wizards and Wizardettes here. Is the Helix Stomp a reasonable competitor at the lower price? Is Fractal worth the wait and the exercise of the price hike between the two? Is there some other floor unit stompboxy thing that I am overlooking and not thinking about? Educate me and get me up to speed. Hit me with those pros and cons. Let me know what you know!!!

Thank you so much and happy weekend!!!!


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## Aewrik (Feb 22, 2020)

The HX Stomp is a Helix with fewer blocks and less I/O. Anything you can do with a Helix in six blocks you can do on the HX Stomp.

With that said, I bought the Helix when it came out and could never get a responsive high gain sound with it. I got the HX Stomp last year and I can't get it to sound bad. I think it's 50% product maturity and 50% IR availability.

The limitations put on the HX Stomp are refreshing, since you have to work with every block to shape the sound. You can load IR's into the stomp. If you have blocks over I usually just load one instead of trying to make the cabs sound good, but they can also be great to have if you have to cram the amp into an amp+cab block (I use IR's as a reference when building the amp+cab block because I still can't figure out how to get the cab to sound good without it).

The effects are great. Line 6 has had great effects since the Pod XT and many of those effects are available in the Helix products as well. Since there are only three foot switches, you usually end up having to group effects. You can expand up to two more footswitches if you don't have any use for a pedal.


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## Carl Kolchak (Feb 22, 2020)

I guess it depends on what you want it to do. Do you want hundreds of amp/cabs/fxs, or are you instead looking for something that does one or two things really well?


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## budda (Feb 22, 2020)

Why can't you use the II for early morning playing? I feel like I'm missing something here.

If it's anything like the III vs Helix (LT), the amp models will (in my experience owning those I just listed) will sound better out of the box and be easier to dial in. If you're on a budget, the stomp makes sense. But if you want the better sounding unit, get the FM3.


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## RobertVII (Feb 22, 2020)

It's worth noting that the guys at Line 6 are looking to expand the 6 block limit to 8 in a future update. Update 2.9 or 3.0 I can't quite remember.


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## Elric (Feb 22, 2020)

I have the Stomp and an Axe 3... the FM3 is supposed to sound like the Axe 3 If it does it’d be worth the price difference and the wait. IMHO.


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## coreypla (Feb 22, 2020)

Thank you to all commentors!! I appreciate you taking the time to leave me the thoughtful feedback. There's a lot of great info here for me to look at and think about. Right now I'm still in the "stalk her on the internet" phase with the HX. 

For those of you with the HX Stomp...what do you think about it overall? Favorite parts? Any things that you dislike about it? Would you still buy it now? 

I really like the idea of its compact size. And at half the price, I'm staring it down a bit more than the FM3. And with a larger floor unit, it might not be as "loud" on my radar. Looks like that HX Stomp can fit in my pant or jacket pocket...jeez! If they can upgrade it to 8 blocks that would be amazing. I'd probably pick up some OH ir's too and pump it up.

I have a magnum 44. So that's a pretty cool compact rig idea. Fractal is king, imo. But I'd rather wait on the axe 4 or 5 and hope they can bring it back to a 2u (praying lol). I think what drew me to the HX was how small it is, while being so fierce. Is the Chihuahua syndrome real here? Is it a competitor against some of those other units at a fraction of the size and price? I could bring it to work and jam on my break? It looks super portable...which is insane to me!!

I just can't seem to get her off my mind....hoping someone can push me off the fence (in either direction) based on their personal experience / opinion.

Thank you all again!!! You are the best!!


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## nickgray (Feb 23, 2020)

The good thing about Helix is that you can always try Helix Native

https://line6.com/helix/helixnative.html

And it will sound, provided your DI input isn't total crap, in which case better try a buffered pedal into the line input, just the same as the real thing. The interface is pretty much the same between the HX Edit and Native, afaik.

Having tried Native, I think it's a bit of a one trick pony when it comes to high gain. There just aren't a lot of high gain amps (and what's modeled are the specific channels of specific amps) and the amps don't have a lot of options to choose from. Stock cabs are crap, but pretty much everyone knows that, you have to go with Ownhammer cabs. EQ after the IRs is a must, the amp settings alone don't really cut it, no matter what IRs you pick. It kinda feels as if the Helix as aiming to get a "modern mix friendly" kind of tone - mid heavy and not enough highs, and the only way to get around it is the aforementioned EQ. I haven't tried any Fractal units, but honestly, just judging from videos it seems that Fractal is more about being true to the original amp sound. Watch the vids where they use only amp and cab blocks - straight away the sound just feels natural and not hyped in any way, unlike the Helix. The interface isn't too great either - it's very hard to properly A/B tones, there are no presets for blocks (meaning every time you put in a block you have to manually change the settings), you have to micromanage the two DSPs, splitting is a bit of a pita, and there are many other quirks and questionable design decisions. HX Stomp is probably a more than good enough solution if you want something portable for gigs, but for playing at home where you want that realistic amp-in-the-room sound, it's not all that great (just try Helix Native for youself).


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## Jeff (Feb 23, 2020)

RobertVII said:


> It's worth noting that the guys at Line 6 are looking to expand the 6 block limit to 8 in a future update. Update 2.9 or 3.0 I can't quite remember.



that’ll be in 3.0.


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## Jeff (Feb 23, 2020)

Elric said:


> I have the Stomp and an Axe 3... the FM3 is supposed to sound like the Axe 3 If it does it’d be worth the price difference and the wait. IMHO.



It’s worth noting that if he’s not on the list right now for the FM3, he’s unlikely to get one until at least the fall, if not 2021.


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## budda (Feb 23, 2020)

A/B'ing tones with fractal stuff is now fairly easy - there is a scratch pad in axe edit for this purpose.


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## Aewrik (Feb 23, 2020)

nickgray said:


> HX Stomp is probably a more than good enough solution if you want something portable for gigs, but for playing at home where you want that realistic amp-in-the-room sound, it's not all that great (just try Helix Native for youself).



This comes to mind:


Without impulse responses I'd agree with you (at least for metal), but with them, the difference between the modelling and the "real" amp is minimal. Otherwise comparing with real amps, for me the Helix was the first amp modeller I felt had a similar response as a real amp (harmonics especially). Feeling-wise? Without an amp, the feel can't be there. That goes for the Fractal too, though.


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## budda (Feb 23, 2020)

Aewrik said:


> Without an amp, the feel can't be there. That goes for the Fractal too, though.



Whole lotta fractal owners disagree, but go off .


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## GoldDragon (Feb 23, 2020)

The amp tones in the III are not noticeably better than the II. The III's strength is in its verbs and spatial processing, that makes it sound "in room".

Lots of people saying the GT1000 has the best sounding amp sims. Really? It also has 32 bit processing and killer verbs. Its the quality of the verbs and processing that gives it the "in room" sound.

IRs? They were a cutting edge thing ten years ago. Now digital cab sims have surpassed them. (Also analog sims, the Palmer still kicks ass) Most people who can load IRs say "meh, I just use the built in sims and get better results." (probably because they are all based on IRs.)

At this point, use whichever one you like best and fits your budget. Line 6, Fractal, Boss, Zoom, etc, etc. I think the core amp tones were credible nearly ten years ago, getting it to sound/feel real is more to do with spatial processing and signal quality. (this is why I wouldn't rush to buy the FM3. Does it have the same verbs and algos as the III? Unknown. If yes then sign me up.)

Its 99% marketing and packaging now. The quest for better is over.


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## Shask (Feb 23, 2020)

GoldDragon said:


> Lots of people saying the GT1000 has the best sounding amp sims. Really? It also has 32 bit processing and killer verbs. Its the quality of the verbs and processing that gives it the "in room" sound.



I don't think I have ever heard that, but that makes me want to try a GT1000 

I have been super impressed with the Katana though. It is quite amazing for what it is. Somehow they got the feel down good, even better than most other digital units.


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## sakeido (Feb 23, 2020)

GoldDragon said:


> The amp tones in the III are not noticeably better than the II. The III's strength is in its verbs and spatial processing, that makes it sound "in room".
> 
> Lots of people saying the GT1000 has the best sounding amp sims. Really? It also has 32 bit processing and killer verbs. Its the quality of the verbs and processing that gives it the "in room" sound.
> 
> ...



Amp tones arent noticeably better than on the 3 than the 2 because they back ported the Ares modeling to the 2. So the 3's killer feature got added to the 2 ... for free. If you compare Ares to whatever the previous firmware was, imo the difference was noticeable.

Post purchase support is a big vote in Fractal's favor. Line 6 is doing some good stuff but they dont have enough amp models and are adding them too slowly.

FWIW I'm debating the same thing and have a FM3 waitlist spot. Right now I see it, the Stomp is half the cost but has about 15% as many usable high gain tones in it so I'm leaning towards the FM3. If the wait is too long I will cave and get a Helix tho.


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## coreypla (Feb 23, 2020)

Shask said:


> I don't think I have ever heard that, but that makes me want to try a GT1000
> 
> I have been super impressed with the Katana though. It is quite amazing for what it is. Somehow they got the feel down good, even better than most other digital units.



completely unrelated, but I just bought the Obsolete shirt this past week. Can't wait for it to show up in the mail. I've been listening to Digimortal a bunch too. Linchpin has always been a favorite of mine!


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## coreypla (Feb 23, 2020)

sakeido said:


> Amp tones arent noticeably better than on the 3 than the 2 because they back ported the Ares modeling to the 2. So the 3's killer feature got added to the 2 ... for free. If you compare Ares to whatever the previous firmware was, imo the difference was noticeable.
> 
> Post purchase support is a big vote in Fractal's favor. Line 6 is doing some good stuff but they dont have enough amp models and are adding them too slowly.
> 
> FWIW I'm debating the same thing and have a FM3 waitlist spot. Right now I see it, the Stomp is half the cost but has about 15% as many usable high gain tones in it so I'm leaning towards the FM3. If the wait is too long I will cave and get a Helix tho.




Do I have the ARES modeling sakeido ? I think its Quantum something? But I have been scared shitless to update my Fractal for a long time since I hear so many horror stories on this. How can I check to see if I have it? And if its worth the upgrade, let me know. I want to make sure I am getting the best possible tonez out of the Fractal.


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## GoldDragon (Feb 23, 2020)

asdfasdfasdf


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## coreypla (Feb 23, 2020)

I have bad news for everyone here, and I hope we can keep some discussion going until the timely death of this thread. 

I crumbled and picked up the HX Stomp because I am weak. Still waiting on it to ship in. MF had a 20% off coupon, so I didn't go blue, but got the black unit for like $130 off. I figured that since I was thinking about it for this long, I should probably just pick it up and live with #noregrets 

For me, the portability was the main thing. Seems like it had everything I would need and can fit in my pocket. I already have the Magnum 44, so if I have to go to a jam sesh, I am all set (my friends have cabs, so I can just grab a gig bag and head on down). I do also have the mooer 5150-3 preamp pedal, which is a really cool thing, but the HX Stomp can cover all my needs and I can get those effects in there too. One guitar, Two pedals (Three cables . com)

I don't want to start a rant or any argument, and I am no good at debating since I'll probably just cave in like the band. But...

_are we or aren't we brushing our hair on the ceiling of modeling?_ I mean, nothing will ever be the same as the living breathing idiosyncrasies of tube power. But how long until we get micro Russian tubes in modelers (already on some of the preamp pedals)? The Fractal, Kemper, new L6 stuff, etc. list goes on, is already so damn close to my ears. And I can adjust sag and bias and other words I don't know, and I can change faux tubes with the click of a button? Where will the Axe FX V (or seven) take us? How many more of these can we bring to the market before "we've made it"?

I'm not young 20s anymore, far from it, and I can't be lugging a 50 lb tube head to jam with the other dudes. Not enough cyclobenz for that! And the thought of it really keeps me from wanting to play out. For me, a portable rig is an incentive to get out and jam with others, and to go from there. I can keep a unit like this in my office and can jam to a metronome during my lunch break. Every little bit helps. 

I also think there are realistic SS amps in every corner of the market. Maybe unpopular, but I even dig the Blackstar ID series, and think those tones are pretty impressive. I am sure katana is above that, and the list goes on and on.... I had a Digitech GSP1101 and my ex band mates thought it was an Axe FX and kept calling it that. These are other musicians and guitarists!!!

I can even record DI with my Apollo UA interface and use the Engl sims on that to get a crushing tone. And so far, no one has walked right up to me, pushed their glasses back up the bridge of their nose and said "WeEeLLLll, its not tube though..." with a sassy shoulder shake.

I gotta say, the portability and acclaim on the unit intrigued me. I hope I am happy with it, but if not, I'll just sell it here or CL and then pick up an FM3 (I am on the waiting list from forever ago). Or maybe not even. If its a big piece of top shelf gear, I want it to stay at home and raise the kids. If its small and portable, out it goes with me. The FM3 seems a bit too big for me to want to move it around much. Not "large" but just a bit too big (I think, I haven't seen one in the wild yet).

What are you thinking? Does portability matter to anyone else here? Should I just hit the gym and lug my tube heads around? Even with those micro lunchbox amp heads, or the lowish watt EVH heads, you can spare some weight and still have all the power and tone you need! I think for me, I want to work on writing, playing, and getting better at guitar. If the HX sounds half decent, then I can get some extra hours in on the guitar and thats what I'm most excited about.

Let me hear your #rants! am I crazy over here? #setmestraight or #ridewithme!


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## GoldDragon (Feb 23, 2020)

Good decision.


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## coreypla (Feb 23, 2020)

Thank you! The Gear Gods guy really liked it too. So I figured it wasn't complete garbage....


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## nickgray (Feb 23, 2020)

coreypla said:


> am I crazy over here?



Nah, I think those of us who tend to overthink (to a ridiculous degree) gear are the crazy ones, if anyone is. Enjoy the Stomp! And 20% off is a sweet deal too. Hell, I'm debating myself whether to go Helix or FM3, I mostly play through headphones atm via VSTs, and the best latency I can get is about 7ms, which is noticeable for me, unfortunately, so the idea I've been having lately is to get a hardware modeler and plug the headphones or monitors directly to it (and the modelers have like 1-2ms RTL latency). It's just that with Helix Native I kinda fell into the "tweak the living shit out of everything" trap. I did get a couple of good tones for sure though. Dunno, maybe I should just get the damn Stomp as well, FM3 sure won't be 2x as good, but it costs 2x as much. And then just set a couple of good and simple practice patches and forget the editor even exists.


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## Shask (Feb 23, 2020)

Personally, I think the sound has been there for awhile now. Modelers and preamp units in general have sounded great for several years, however, where there is still work to be done is in the dynamic interaction. Not only in how the modeler reacts to the guitar player, but how the modeler interacts with the speakers. There is still something missing from the way the chugs move with you as compared to a tube amp.

Yes, of course portability matters. It just depends on everyone's situation. I just threw my Zoom G1on in my suitcase because I will be in a hotel for the next week. If I traveled for work more often, I would probably have a Stomp also.


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## budda (Feb 23, 2020)

Arent the fm3 dimensions online somewhere?


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## Masoo2 (Feb 23, 2020)

coreypla said:


> _are we or aren't we brushing our hair on the ceiling of modeling?_



Might be an unpopular opinion but I still think plugin modeling has a way to go

I feel they need to be designed to better accompany the generic preamps/converters most interfaces have, especially budget interfaces

Even my absolute favorite plugins, example being Overloud TH3/THU, feels lacking compared to modeling hardware and actual amps

It's in the simple things like turning down your volume knob or adjusting your picking strength where you notice it the most, not to mention problems with harsh high frequencies which I still think are too present on even the most "cutting edge" of plugins like the Neural DSP stuff

It's almost a slap to the face when a used 5150/derivative that's 10 years old off of Craigslist with a cheap V30 cab from Thomann miced with an halfway destroyed SM57 from the Guitar Center used section sounds and feels better than the most expensive plugins with loads of additional EQ, compression, saturation, etc...


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## Jeff (Feb 23, 2020)

GoldDragon said:


> The amp tones in the III are not noticeably better than the II. The III's strength is in its verbs and spatial processing, that makes it sound "in room".
> 
> Lots of people saying the GT1000 has the best sounding amp sims. Really? It also has 32 bit processing and killer verbs. Its the quality of the verbs and processing that gives it the "in room" sound.
> 
> ...



IR’s are still better than stock cabs in every device I’ve ever owned or tried. The people using stock cabs are by far in the minority. I don’t know where you’re getting ideas about what most people do, but it’s not from gear forums. 
And I had a Palmer. It wasn’t great 12 years ago. It’s even worse now.


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## Jeff (Feb 23, 2020)

Masoo2 said:


> Might be an unpopular opinion but I still think plugin modeling has a way to go
> 
> I feel they need to be designed to better accompany the generic preamps/converters most interfaces have, especially budget interfaces
> 
> ...



the problem with plugins aren’t the plugins. It’s the interfaces that aren’t ideal for replicating the front end of an amp.


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## Backsnack (Feb 23, 2020)

coreypla said:


> I have bad news for everyone here, and I hope we can keep some discussion going
> I don't want to start a rant or any argument, and I am no good at debating since I'll probably just cave in like the band. But...
> 
> _are we or aren't we brushing our hair on the ceiling of modeling?_ I mean, nothing will ever be the same as the living breathing idiosyncrasies of tube power. *But how long until we get micro Russian tubes in modelers (already on some of the preamp pedals)?* The Fractal, Kemper, new L6 stuff, etc. list goes on, is already so damn close to my ears. And I can adjust sag and bias and other words I don't know, and I can change faux tubes with the click of a button? Where will the Axe FX V (or seven) take us? How many more of these can we bring to the market before "we've made it"?


Might you be talking about the BluGuitar Amp1 pedals? 

Can't go wrong with those either imho, and they just released a metal version:
https://www.bluguitar.com/iridium/

... in case you feel like experimenting with stuff beyond your Stomp. But you made a great choice, enjoy it. As far as performance and flexiblity for the size and price point, there's basically nothing else on the market that compares.


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## Shask (Feb 23, 2020)

coreypla said:


> completely unrelated, but I just bought the Obsolete shirt this past week. Can't wait for it to show up in the mail. I've been listening to Digimortal a bunch too. Linchpin has always been a favorite of mine!


Fear Factory is one of the best bands ever!


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## laxu (Feb 24, 2020)

coreypla said:


> _are we or aren't we brushing our hair on the ceiling of modeling?_ I mean, nothing will ever be the same as the living breathing idiosyncrasies of tube power. But how long until we get micro Russian tubes in modelers (already on some of the preamp pedals)? The Fractal, Kemper, new L6 stuff, etc. list goes on, is already so damn close to my ears. And I can adjust sag and bias and other words I don't know, and I can change faux tubes with the click of a button? Where will the Axe FX V (or seven) take us? How many more of these can we bring to the market before "we've made it"?



We are already in the splitting hairs department. My Helix Floor sounded 99% the same as my Axe-Fx 2 when I used the same cab IRs and adjusted the Helix to match my favorite Axe-Fx 2 patches. I switched between the two with MIDI and at some point they were so close that I got confused which one was being played. The settings on the Helix were wildly different from the Axe so maybe the Axe is more accurate behavior to the real amp but who cares if the end result is the same. The Helix UI is miles better but Fractal has a better software editor. To me the biggest different between current top tier modelers is form factor and UI. The upcoming NeuralDSP Quad Cortex won't sound any better than the units already out there but its UI is exciting.



> What are you thinking? Does portability matter to anyone else here? Should I just hit the gym and lug my tube heads around? Even with those micro lunchbox amp heads, or the lowish watt EVH heads, you can spare some weight and still have all the power and tone you need! I think for me, I want to work on writing, playing, and getting better at guitar. If the HX sounds half decent, then I can get some extra hours in on the guitar and thats what I'm most excited about.



Portability absolutely matters. Most people don't have roadies and the days of cranking amps in most venues is well past so smaller and lighter is getting ever more popular. My Bogner Goldfinger 1x12 combo was a beast to lug around so I'm converting it to a head and cab. My current "on the go" rig is just the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition because I can fit it in my gigbag whereas my Helix Floor is too large so I would rather just leave it hooked up to my Bogner for home use. I'm not a big fx user so the BluGuitar covers a lot of ground for me and sounds fantastic while being extremely light weight and easy to use. A lot of people seem to make small pedalboards with it.

I've gone a bit off on modelers because I find that I play more (rather than tweak) with limitations and mostly end up with a Fender/Vox clean and Marshall overdrive type sounds so I don't need the 100 other options for anything. I got a good price on the Helix Floor used a few years back and it works great as an fx unit and control box for my real amps. I might eventually replace it with something like the new TC Plethora X5 and get another Keeley D&M Drive for a more compact rig with my tube amp and get the BluGuitar Amp X when it's released next year for a compact all-in-one "modeler".

I don't like the lunchboxes because they don't sound as big like their 50+ watt brethren. They are barely less loud and sacrifice a lot of features just to make them smaller and lighter. If more manufacturers used something other than a plywood chassis and used toroidal transformers our favorite big amps would not need to be as large and heavy. Same for bigger cabs, my Bluetone 4x10 made of paulownia weighs _less_ than my 1x12 Bogner combo with the amp removed!


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## Jeff (Feb 24, 2020)

laxu said:


> We are already in the splitting hairs department. My Helix Floor sounded 99% the same as my Axe-Fx 2 when I used the same cab IRs and adjusted the Helix to match my favorite Axe-Fx 2 patches. I switched between the two with MIDI and at some point they were so close that I got confused which one was being played. The settings on the Helix were wildly different from the Axe so maybe the Axe is more accurate behavior to the real amp but who cares if the end result is the same. The Helix UI is miles better but Fractal has a better software editor. To me the biggest different between current top tier modelers is form factor and UI. The upcoming NeuralDSP Quad Cortex won't sound any better than the units already out there but its UI is exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I somewhat disagree with you on the little amp thing; while I agree they don’t have the same oomph and bass response as the full sized heads, if you treat them as what they are, their own thing, they can be enjoyable awesome amps. I actually prefer them to the full sized versions in the case of the Mesas.


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## sakeido (Feb 24, 2020)

coreypla said:


> Do I have the ARES modeling sakeido ? I think its Quantum something? But I have been scared shitless to update my Fractal for a long time since I hear so many horror stories on this. How can I check to see if I have it? And if its worth the upgrade, let me know. I want to make sure I am getting the best possible tonez out of the Fractal.



iirc if your Axe still says Quantum when it fires up, you don't have Ares.

There have been some patches with ... questionable ... results in the past but I don't think the Ares update is one of them. If you are mid-cycle recording an album, updating is always a terrible idea, but if you don't have any projects on the go have fun with the new toanz 



coreypla said:


> I have bad news for everyone here, and I hope we can keep some discussion going until the timely death of this thread.
> 
> I crumbled and picked up the HX Stomp because I am weak. Still waiting on it to ship in. MF had a 20% off coupon, so I didn't go blue, but got the black unit for like $130 off. I figured that since I was thinking about it for this long, I should probably just pick it up and live with #noregrets
> 
> ...



I think modeling has been able to emulate preamps with 99.99% accuracy for years. I had an Axe FX Ultra way back when that if you ran it into the power amp of a tube head, sounded basically indistinguishable from the real deal.

Power amp modeling is where sims needed to come along. The best sim (Fractal Ares) is 97% the way there, some others are 95% (the best models on the Helix), and there is a surprising amount of stuff out there that's 90% as good as tubes (most other models on the Helix, Brainworx VST plugins, Overloud, etc).

Portability is the key feature, for sure. I sold my Axe FX 2 to get back into tube amps and while I fkin love my amps, I don't love them anywhere near enough to move the goddamn things anywhere. Not even to the basement of my own house for a jam. The head is one thing, the 4x12? Fuuuuuck that

For band stuff now I just play boards like the Helix that are a foot controller with all the tone built in. I can tell a difference between Helix and a real amp no problem but can the audience? Nope. The extra tone isn't worth 200 pounds of gear hauling. Plus you can always make a tube amp sound like garbage by missing the sweetspot with the mic by half an inch anyway.


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## Aewrik (Feb 24, 2020)

Congratulations on your metal box!



coreypla said:


> Let me hear your #rants! am I crazy over here? #setmestraight or #ridewithme!



Not at all! The reason I chose the HX Stomp was just because of the size - I have my entire rig in my gigbag..! (Until I find a venue without a PA)

Like I said in my post, with the Helix I felt like I got the real deal response-wise. The older modellers hade those squealy fart harmonics and didn't respond well when you rolled back volume. With the Helix everything responds the way I expect it to, and it sounds great to my ears.


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## Musiscience (Feb 25, 2020)

Elric said:


> I have the Stomp and an Axe 3... the FM3 is supposed to sound like the Axe 3 If it does it’d be worth the price difference and the wait. IMHO.


They are just starting to ship and people on the Fractal Forum are reporting that it sounds no different from the III. It seems like it simply has less processing power, so if you want to run a ton of high fidelity effects with 2 amp blocks, you would need the Axe III. Use with one amp block and a few effects is expected to sound like the III.

I am looking into buying one with a Duncan Powerstage when they come out.

Edit: it also has less outs and etc. if you have a fairly complex live setup.


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## coreypla (Feb 25, 2020)

There is no doubt that the fractal FM3 is going to be killer. Just for some reason, I don't love footboard gear if its super large (or too big). The FM3 is right around that size threshold for me. Honestly, if its the best of the best, I want to leave it at home in the gear room. If its super small and super portable, like this HX Stomp, then I will travel with it no questions asked. Hell, I might forget its in my pocket and walk out the door with it anyway? 

I really really want an Axe FX III, but I always feel that if I miss out on it for even a hot minute, then I am already part of the way towards the next version. Meaning, my II XL+ is still pretty bitchin' and I'd rather wait and see if I can be first in line for the next cool gear, then picking up the III now. I don't think there was anything about the III that made me absolutely spaz out and need to get it. And the whole 3u thing was a turnoff for me. Not that matters though, since it would sit in the rack, away from the cheetohs.

The Neural Quad Death Destroyer looks so cool. I hear its going to be a lovechild of the Fractal and Kemper stuff---both a modeler and profiler. But I'm a real jackass when it comes to buying these things. If there isn't some huge pull for me, then I won't go for it. Price and size are also weighted high for me on my scoring list. The Stomp looked great because it was not too too much (I think I remember the HD Pro X being a similar price and I got a 20% off coupon on Musicians Friend) and the size was the coolest thing ever. Like the size of a Cliff Bar. 

Right now I do have a Zoom G1on at work that I am jamming on during my breaks, but I am excited to replace it with the HX Stomp and geek out a bit more. Also excited to get out and jam with some more people. Lugging all the gear and its mom around is a definite deterrent for me---so I survive as a bedroom player mostly.

I guess now the only question (and I'll probably make a new thread for this) is what IRs should I get? I know someone was raving about the Ownhammer Engl stuff. I want to make sure this little stomp box is screaming ravioli-steamin' !!!

Lots of cool ideas here in the thread, and for those of you that went along with my confirmation bias, I thank you for that!!!  I don't think anyone using gear these days is really missing out. Seems like the Helix line, the Fractal, and the Kemper stuff are all pretty shredding! Just some friendly gang-rivalry.


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## coreypla (Feb 25, 2020)

There is no doubt that the fractal FM3 is going to be killer. Just for some reason, I don't love footboard gear if its super large (or too big). The FM3 is right around that size threshold for me. Honestly, if its the best of the best, I want to leave it at home in the gear room. If its super small and super portable, like this HX Stomp, then I will travel with it no questions asked. Hell, I might forget its in my pocket and walk out the door with it anyway? 

I really really want an Axe FX III, but I always feel that if I miss out on it for even a hot minute, then I am already part of the way towards the next version. Meaning, my II XL+ is still pretty bitchin' and I'd rather wait and see if I can be first in line for the next cool gear, then picking up the III now. I don't think there was anything about the III that made me absolutely spaz out and need to get it. And the whole 3u thing was a turnoff for me. Not that matters though, since it would sit in the rack, away from the cheetohs.

The Neural Quad Death Destroyer looks so cool. I hear its going to be a lovechild of the Fractal and Kemper stuff---both a modeler and profiler. But I'm a real jackass when it comes to buying these things. If there isn't some huge pull for me, then I won't go for it. Price and size are also weighted high for me on my scoring list. The Stomp looked great because it was not too too much (I think I remember the HD Pro X being a similar price and I got a 20% off coupon on Musicians Friend) and the size was the coolest thing ever. Like the size of a Cliff Bar. 

Right now I do have a Zoom G1on at work that I am jamming on during my breaks, but I am excited to replace it with the HX Stomp and geek out a bit more. Also excited to get out and jam with some more people. Lugging all the gear and its mom around is a definite deterrent for me---so I survive as a bedroom player mostly.

I guess now the only question (and I'll probably make a new thread for this) is what IRs should I get? I know someone was raving about the Ownhammer Engl stuff. I want to make sure this little stomp box is screaming ravioli-steamin' !!!

Lots of cool ideas here in the thread, and for those of you that went along with my confirmation bias, I thank you for that!!!  I don't think anyone using gear these days is really missing out. Seems like the Helix line, the Fractal, and the Kemper stuff are all pretty shredding! Just some friendly gang-rivalry.


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## coreypla (Feb 25, 2020)

There is no doubt that the fractal FM3 is going to be killer. Just for some reason, I don't love footboard gear if its super large (or too big). The FM3 is right around that size threshold for me. Honestly, if its the best of the best, I want to leave it at home in the gear room. If its super small and super portable, like this HX Stomp, then I will travel with it no questions asked. Hell, I might forget its in my pocket and walk out the door with it anyway? 

I really really want an Axe FX III, but I always feel that if I miss out on it for even a hot minute, then I am already part of the way towards the next version. Meaning, my II XL+ is still pretty bitchin' and I'd rather wait and see if I can be first in line for the next cool gear, then picking up the III now. I don't think there was anything about the III that made me absolutely spaz out and need to get it. And the whole 3u thing was a turnoff for me. Not that matters though, since it would sit in the rack, away from the cheetohs.

The Neural Quad Death Destroyer looks so cool. I hear its going to be a lovechild of the Fractal and Kemper stuff---both a modeler and profiler. But I'm a real jackass when it comes to buying these things. If there isn't some huge pull for me, then I won't go for it. Price and size are also weighted high for me on my scoring list. The Stomp looked great because it was not too too much (I think I remember the HD Pro X being a similar price and I got a 20% off coupon on Musicians Friend) and the size was the coolest thing ever. Like the size of a Cliff Bar. 

Right now I do have a Zoom G1on at work that I am jamming on during my breaks, but I am excited to replace it with the HX Stomp and geek out a bit more. Also excited to get out and jam with some more people. Lugging all the gear and its mom around is a definite deterrent for me---so I survive as a bedroom player mostly.

I guess now the only question (and I'll probably make a new thread for this) is what IRs should I get? I know someone was raving about the Ownhammer Engl stuff. I want to make sure this little stomp box is screaming ravioli-steamin' !!!

Lots of cool ideas here in the thread, and for those of you that went along with my confirmation bias, I thank you for that!!!  I don't think anyone using gear these days is really missing out. Seems like the Helix line, the Fractal, and the Kemper stuff are all pretty shredding! Just some friendly gang-rivalry.


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## coreypla (Feb 25, 2020)

whoops...I didn't mean to post the new thrice album. can i delete this? or does a mod have to get rid of the duplicates?


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## Musiscience (Feb 26, 2020)

coreypla said:


> whoops...I didn't mean to post the new thrice album. can i delete this? or does a mod have to get rid of the duplicates?





It's always about finding the best possible solution for you. If you find it too big, it might just not be what you are looking for as you said. The HX Stomp might be the right solution. 

For my own use, it's (on paper) the perfect unit: 

-Axe FX III quality of modeling and effects. 
-Very flexible foot switching to change channels and effects, but in a small package. 
-Portable (can be put on a pedalboard with a pedal sized amp). 
-Affordable compared to the flagship. 
-Heaphone jack.
-Useable as an interface for recording. 

I plan on using it for everything (recording, jamming and practicing at night). Just subscribed to the wait list, my tube amp will do in the meantime  !


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## laxu (Feb 29, 2020)

Jeff said:


> I somewhat disagree with you on the little amp thing; while I agree they don’t have the same oomph and bass response as the full sized heads, if you treat them as what they are, their own thing, they can be enjoyable awesome amps. I actually prefer them to the full sized versions in the case of the Mesas.



Of course. They sound fine but if there is a bigger version then a side by side comparison will usually reveal the difference.


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## Jeff (Feb 29, 2020)

laxu said:


> Of course. They sound fine but if there is a bigger version then a side by side comparison will usually reveal the difference.



watch the Tom Quayle video with the Marks. The difference isn’t that drastic, IMO. And I definitely prefer the Crunch on the 25/35.


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## Avedas (Mar 3, 2020)

coreypla said:


> What are you thinking? Does portability matter to anyone else here? Should I just hit the gym and lug my tube heads around?


Portability is huge for me. You could be some Icelandic strongman and not want to deal with big tube amps in Tokyo. Unless you have a very organized band with a van or you pay for a dedicated private practice space, you're taking your gear in hand on the train (or paying out the ass for a taxi). I think like... 2 people in my social circle own cars and they're pretty much exclusively used by their wives to run errands with the kids. My Helix LT fits in a backpack, and that's how I go to rehearsals and gigs (with my guitar also strapped to my back).

I find the FM3 very intriguing though. I'm on the waitlist and I'll probably get it since the price, features, size, and weight (it's lighter than the Helix LT!) are great.


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