# Pain of Salvation about to bring back the metal?



## DLG (Sep 30, 2016)

sounds like it's finally going to happen


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## vilk (Sep 30, 2016)

The first Pain of Salvation song I ever heard is People Passing By, and I've listened to it probably a hundred times, but it's so much better than every single other song by the band that it accidentally makes them all disappointing.


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2016)

It's a great song, but far from a true statement


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## wankerness (Sep 30, 2016)

DLG said:


> It's a great song, but far from a true statement



Yeah, that's flat-out ridiculous. I'm guessing he's never listened to a full album.


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## chopeth (Sep 30, 2016)

Yes, yes, yes!!! Help me a little bit more to forget new Opeth forever.


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## Repner (Sep 30, 2016)

Yeah. Daniel said a while ago the next album was going to go back to the metal stuff. I like the Road Salt albums, but I'm really excited for this.


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## wankerness (Sep 30, 2016)

I hated Road Salt 1 and Scarsick, but Road Salt 2 had a couple good songs on it. I am looking forward to this. The new band members aren't nearly as proficient as the ones from the old days, but they're obviously still talented.


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## Dyingsea (Sep 30, 2016)

They were hardly metal, but returning to their prog roots is a great thing yes. Their first five albums are on constant rotation here.


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## AdamMaz (Sep 30, 2016)

Been awhile since I've followed this band, sounds promising


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## Vletrmx (Oct 1, 2016)

I recently rediscovered this band after not having listened to them for maybe 5-6 years after I listened to One Hour by the Concrete Lake again. I look forward to see what comes out of this, especially if they can tap into that sound again.


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## vividox (Oct 2, 2016)

Very exciting. Road Salt and Scarsick weren't terrible, but their first five albums were masterpieces.


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## Sang-Drax (Oct 3, 2016)

chopeth said:


> Yes, yes, yes!!! Help me a little bit more to forget new Opeth forever.






Aside from the terrible production, I dig both Road Salt's and the Linoleum EP. Then again, production has never been PoS's forte anyway.

I can't wait to hear the new lineup in action. I'm particularly excited by the fact that they have a true bassist this time. Kristoffer Gildenlöw really made a difference.


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## Herrick (Dec 12, 2016)

I really hope "they" go back to that style. The Road Salts don't do it for me.


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## Dyingsea (Dec 12, 2016)

There's a new song/video out you can view on youtube. It's definitely not Road Salt but I wasn't blown away. Looking forward to hearing more from the album.


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## wankerness (Dec 13, 2016)

It's called Meaningless, for anyone else wondering.


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## rapterr15 (Dec 13, 2016)

Meaningless is basically one of Ragnar's songs from his old band Sign that he and Daniel decided to slightly rework and include on the album because Daniel really enjoyed the track. I don't think it will be too indicative of the rest of the album since that song wasn't written by Daniel, and the rest was written more collaboratively by both Daniel and Ragnar, from what I heard Daniel say in a radio interview recently. 

A guy on reddit who got journalistic access to the album early said there are some very intricate rhythms on the album, and Daniel stated in the same interview I listened to that this album is definitely more in line with their first four albums than their more recent work. I'm really optimistic that it's gonna kick ass, and it is definitely one of my most anticipated new albums of 2017, as well as Seventh Wonder's and David Maxim Micic's.

I was listening to 12:5 last night, and damn. I had forgotten what an amazing live performance that was. Daniel was totally on his game, vocally, and the unplugged arrangements were pretty incredible. I highly recommend checking that out, if anyone here hasn't heard it.


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## vividox (Dec 13, 2016)

rapterr15 said:


> I was listening to 12:5 last night, and damn. I had forgotten what an amazing live performance that was. Daniel was totally on his game, vocally, and the unplugged arrangements were pretty incredible. I highly recommend checking that out, if anyone here hasn't heard it.


I pretty much hate live albums. Honestly, I feel like most bands just use them to pad their album counts to get out of contracts or fulfill obligations and make a little money on the side doing it. Most aren't nearly as good as the cleaned and polished studio albums and I simply avoid them.

12:5 is a clear exception. That is one of the best live albums I've ever heard. It's creatively arranged, it's technically amazing, it's an awesome take on PoS's best material. Even if you hate live albums, go listen to it right now.


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## Herrick (Dec 13, 2016)

I am also not a fan of live albums. I haven't heard 12:5 yet but I do have Ending Themes and it's very good. 

I'm getting more and more excited about this upcoming album. Hell, I'll even take something like Scarsick. I don't think Scarsick is that bad.


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## DLG (Dec 14, 2016)

Ending Themes is definitely an amazing live album. Most of the songs sound better live than in studio. Handful of Nothing in particular is jaw-dropping.


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## Ralyks (Dec 16, 2016)

Live albums only work if they don't just sound like carbon copies of the studio tracks or present new takes on songs. 12:5 is an example of the later. Examples of the former to me are any Overkill does live or or Metallicas Live ....: Binge and Purge, because while the arrangements aren't really different, the intensity (and sometimes speed) on those performances are turned up to 11.


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## eloann (Dec 16, 2016)

Been following these guys forever and I'm looking forward to this new album. They never fail to reinvent themselves which can be tough on the fans but I've actually found myself really appreciating songs I didn't love when they first came out lately.

Also Gustaf is my favorite bass player of theirs ever by a margin and Ragnar is (slowly) growing on me.


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## rahul_mukerji (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm so looking forward to this release! I heard from sources its supposed to be kick ass (they have preview access). 

And I agree 12:5 is one hell of an album. I personally enjoy listening to BE, 12:5 and Elements from "cover to cover". It's just mesmerizing to me and their playing and arrangements are just outstanding.


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## rapterr15 (Dec 16, 2016)

I hear the next single should be out before the end of the month. Looking forward to it!


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## wankerness (Dec 16, 2016)

12:5 is almost as good of a listen as their prior 4 albums. I love it. It really is polished enough that it could be a studio album, apart from some dodgy percussion sound here and there. And that major version of Ashes, I hate that  I had a few live bootlegs from earlier which had the same thing, and it always annoyed me. A lot of the versions of songs are completely reworked and are extremely intricate. I particularly like what they did with Undertow and Song for the Innocent (even though that song has always been way too short).

I am not familiar with Ending Themes. Maybe I should order it. Their old line-up was insane live. The new live version of Remedy Lane is great in most departments, but comparing the insane precision and speed on some old live recordings of Fandango compared to the new guy barely pulling it off on the new recording makes me sad! The keyboard playing is similar, it sounds like the guy is just barely holding it together on some things (ex, again on Fandango, especially the outro).


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## eloann (Dec 17, 2016)

wankerness said:


> comparing the insane precision and speed on some old live recordings of Fandango compared to the new guy barely pulling it off on the new recording makes me sad! The keyboard playing is similar, it sounds like the guy is just barely holding it together on some things (ex, again on Fandango, especially the outro).



They obviously replaced old members with musicians that have a very different approach (especially Leo and Gustaf being way less "clinical"). Which is a double edged sword - great way to keep evolving but they may not be that comfortable with some of the old stuff.


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## Herrick (Dec 18, 2016)

wankerness said:


> I am not familiar with Ending Themes. Maybe I should order it. Their old line-up was insane live. The new live version of Remedy Lane is great in most departments, but comparing the insane precision and speed on some old live recordings of Fandango compared to the new guy barely pulling it off on the new recording makes me sad! The keyboard playing is similar, it sounds like the guy is just barely holding it together on some things (ex, again on Fandango, especially the outro).



Ending Themes is really great. The concert itself is on YouTube so you can get a decent preview of how everything sounds. Unfortunately, the album is out of print methinks.


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## Kanye (Dec 18, 2016)

Im not convinced. 

They sound closer to The Cure than anything 'metallic'


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## eloann (Dec 19, 2016)

Who cares if it's "metal" as long as it's good though?


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## Herrick (Dec 19, 2016)

eloann said:


> Who cares if it's "metal" as long as it's good though?



Some of us weren't too big on the Road Salts. So when someone says they're going back to Metal it gives us hope. I don't know if this upcoming album is going to be good but their best material by far was when they were making Metal-type music.


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## Ralyks (Dec 20, 2016)

Agreed. Not that the Road Salts were bad (Healing Now is easily one of my favorite songs by them), but they pale in comparison to when PoS was doing Metal. I know personally, Remedy Lane is a desert island record, and everyone loves Perfect Element I.


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## DLG (Dec 23, 2016)

the first 3 are absolute classic for me. I still like RL a lot, but I don't think it compares to the first three.


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## DLG (Dec 23, 2016)

this is pretty ok, but not really good. forced heaviness/tough guy riffs, but where are the keyboards?


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## eloann (Dec 23, 2016)

DLG said:


> this is pretty ok, but not really good. forced heaviness/tough guy riffs, but where are the keyboards?



Yeah, Karlsson is seen on guitar in this one - quite the surprise.
Not 100% convinced overall but I dig the verse.


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## Xaios (Dec 26, 2016)

Not perfect, but I enjoyed it way more than anything on the Road Salt albums. 

Tell me about this Ragnar fellow though. For better or for worse, PoS was always more or less the Daniel Gildenlow show, even when they were a cohesive band. It's weird all of a sudden seeing this new guy getting so much attention compared to, well, practically ANY of the former members of PoS.


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## wankerness (Dec 26, 2016)

"the uploader has not made this video available in your country"

RACISTS

RE: "The Daniel Gildenlow show," the old drummer and bassist added a TON of personality. That drummer was one of the loosest-sounding guys out there and would add tons of insanely technical embellishments to the songs while sounding totally casual (ex, the intro to Rope Ends, or Idioglossia). Kristoffer Gildenlow also added a ton of fills and weird tones and interesting counter-bass parts to the songs (ex the opening of Waking Every God or the bridge to In the Flesh) that I just haven't heard on anything since he left.


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## DLG (Dec 27, 2016)

also, pretty much everyone in the old band could sing their asses off. here it just seems like ragnar can.


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## wankerness (Dec 27, 2016)

DLG said:


> also, pretty much everyone in the old band could sing their asses off. here it just seems like ragnar can.



Well, credit where credit's due - I don't know who's singing what, but whoever sings on Chain Sling on the new live album sounds a lot better than whoever sang it on 12:5!


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## DLG (Dec 27, 2016)

can't remember 12:5 but johan crushes here

at the 1 hour mark exactly.


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## Herrick (Dec 27, 2016)

DLG said:


> can't remember 12:5 but johan crushes here
> 
> at the 1 hour mark exactly.




I like his voice a lot more than Zolberg's.


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## Herrick (Jan 4, 2017)

wankerness said:


> "the uploader has not made this video available in your country"
> 
> RACISTS



It's working now at least in the US. 

Pretty good song. I like the heaviness contrasted with the soft parts. Hopefully the album will be a good mix of heavier songs and good slow songs too. 

*Edit:* And keyboards.


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## jameslabrie (Jan 4, 2017)

I'm looking forward to this album a lot. Prefer Meaningless over Reasons, it'll be interesting to see which direction they take this!


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## Dyingsea (Jan 4, 2017)

Really don't dig Reasons that much at all. Seems... I don't know...trying to be proggy for the sake of being proggy? Meaningless felt emotional and complex like their old works.


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## wankerness (Jan 4, 2017)

Reasons didn't seem very proggy to me apart from the very forced "odd rhythms." One section reminded me of a real classic:

ONE!

Nothing wrong with me!

TWO! 

Nothing wrong with me!!!


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## Herrick (Jan 4, 2017)

wankerness said:


> Reasons didn't seem very proggy to me apart from the very forced "odd rhythms." One section reminded me of a real classic:
> 
> ONE!
> 
> ...



LoL! Thank Crom I don't get that vibe from Reasons


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## Ralyks (Jan 5, 2017)

I honestly freakin' love Reasons.


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## Herrick (Jan 5, 2017)

Ralyks said:


> I honestly freakin' love Reasons.



Me too. It's extremely rare for a song to be memorable after a couple listens. This one's been stuck in my head for two days now. I almost wish I didn't listen to it because it generated more hype for this upcoming album and I'll be very disappointed if it sucks.


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## Ralyks (Jan 5, 2017)

I'm only 2 listens into Reasons and its stuck in my head. And honestly, I love the off-beat rhythms, as forced as they sound.


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## vividox (Jan 9, 2017)

Reasons sounds like the kind of forced rhythms I used to write about 10 years ago before other musicians told me I couldn't write rhythms that sounded that forced so I started to shy away from them but secretly still really like.


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## bozothedeathmachine (Jan 10, 2017)

I liked the Road Salts well enough. I knew they were going into that dirtier prog-rock stuff, like Opeth (seriously, was there something in the water in Sweden that cause a 70s prog-rock resurgence?), and in that context they're good. That said, all the albums from Be and before are amazing. I would love to see them go back to that. 12:5 is also a great live album. I like the acoustic rearrangements on 12:5 more than the rearrangements on Falling Home. 

Neither of the singles so far of the older stuff. Meaningless reminds me of the Road Salts and overly dramatic as Gildenlowe is wont to be (to good effect, don't get me wrong). 

Either way, I'm a fan and will pick it up.


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## DLG (Jan 10, 2017)

bozothedeathmachine said:


> I liked the Road Salts well enough. I knew they were going into that dirtier prog-rock stuff, like Opeth (seriously, was there something in the water in Sweden that cause a 70s prog-rock resurgence?)



Sweden has waaaaay better prog rock bands than those two prog metal turned prog rock duds. 

Anekdoten, Anglagard, The Flower Kings, Kaipa, Moon Safari


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## Herrick (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm not sure what you people mean about the rhythm sounding forced. It sounds natural enough to me. Reminds me of Rope Ends. It doesn't have that "random" riffing I've heard in some of the Djent stuff. Or maybe off beat rhythms and random riffing are two different things?

What are some good examples of weird rhythms that don't sound forced?


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## AdamMaz (Jan 10, 2017)

wankerness said:


> One section reminded me of a real classic:
> 
> ONE!
> 
> ...






Herrick said:


> Me too. It's extremely rare for a song to be memorable after a couple listens. This one's been stuck in my head for two days now.


All the hype of this track from this thread, I went straight for this song and am insta-hooked. 



Ralyks said:


> I'm only 2 listens into Reasons and its stuck in my head. And honestly, I love the off-beat rhythms, as forced as they sound.


100% agreed.


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## Xaios (Jan 11, 2017)

wankerness said:


> RE: "The Daniel Gildenlow show," the old drummer and bassist added a TON of personality. That drummer was one of the loosest-sounding guys out there and would add tons of insanely technical embellishments to the songs while sounding totally casual (ex, the intro to Rope Ends, or Idioglossia). Kristoffer Gildenlow also added a ton of fills and weird tones and interesting counter-bass parts to the songs (ex the opening of Waking Every God or the bridge to In the Flesh) that I just haven't heard on anything since he left.



I should probably explain a bit more what I meant by this. Obviously Pain of Salvation, both past and present, features some monster musicians who aren't Daniel Gildenlow. I quite like Johan Hallgren's playing, and the guy could definitely sing (as evidenced by the BE concert). However, the writing and style of the band is definitely dictated by Daniel Gildenlow, and even when the music sounds fully cohesive in a band-centric manner, there's absolutely no doubt who's brainchild you're hearing.

I suppose the closest example I can think of is Children of Bodom. Another band that features some monster musicians, and it's not like they never get a chance to shine, as anyone who's heard Janne Wirman's solos can attest to. At the end of the day though, everyone else in the band basically orbits around Alexi Laiho; where he leads, they follow.


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## vividox (Jan 11, 2017)

Herrick said:


> I'm not sure what you people mean about the rhythm sounding forced. It sounds natural enough to me. Reminds me of Rope Ends. It doesn't have that "random" riffing I've heard in some of the Djent stuff. Or maybe off beat rhythms and random riffing are two different things?
> 
> What are some good examples of weird rhythms that don't sound forced?


It's just subjective semantics. In general: the more unusual, the more "forced", and "unusual" is going to vary from person to person.


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## wankerness (Jan 11, 2017)

Herrick said:


> I'm not sure what you people mean about the rhythm sounding forced. It sounds natural enough to me. Reminds me of Rope Ends. It doesn't have that "random" riffing I've heard in some of the Djent stuff. Or maybe off beat rhythms and random riffing are two different things?
> 
> What are some good examples of weird rhythms that don't sound forced?



A lot of the weird rhythms on earlier Pain of Salvation legitimately seem to be written around the natural flow of the lyrics. "Used," the bridge on "In the Flesh," "Chain Sling," and "Dedication" are a few of the major examples that immediately come to mind. Rope Ends is one where it is more "forced," but it's supposed to be really spiky considering the mental state of the subject of the song. I have no idea what Reasons is about, so maybe that's what's going on here, but it just sounded a lot to me like those bedroom djent songs where it's like "if it was in time it would be boring, so let's shift everything over a sixteenth note or two so it is OFF and EDGY!!!" The only example I can think of from albums I've listened to more than twice would be those repeating powerchord palm mute riffs that happen throughout Be as transitions, but those don't sound nearly as off, they have more of a groove.


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## Herrick (Jan 12, 2017)

vividox said:


> It's just subjective semantics. In general: the more unusual, the more "forced", and "unusual" is going to vary from person to person.



I see.

The album has been leaked.


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## Vletrmx (Jan 12, 2017)

To jump on the "Reasons sounds like XYZ..." bandwagon, it reminds me of that old Limp Bizkit studio footage where Fred Durst is trying to come up with riffs after their guitarist quit.


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## Demiurge (Jan 14, 2017)

I'm terrible at keeping track of release dates, but the new record dropped yesterday?!

Just ordered the vinyl and started listening to a stream. So far so good!

EDIT: Finished the first listen. It's definitely a record that will need multiple listens to 'get'. They really didn't "bring the metal back" all the way- there are more mellow parts than heavy parts. I initially wanted to say that it splits the difference between the Road Salt albums and those that came before in terms of tone but while RS 1&2 were kind of stripped-down the mellow parts here are more deeply-arranged. I could totally live without "Reasons"; even though the song preceding it had some heavier parts towards the end it just doesn't fit.


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## vividox (Jan 14, 2017)

Man, I remember when Spotify had alerts for album releases. That was a cool feature that they got rid of because they hate people.


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## InHiding (Jan 14, 2017)

This album is just bad...


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## chopeth (Jan 15, 2017)

Pretty boring I'd better say. Disappointed


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## Herrick (Jan 15, 2017)

I like the first 6 songs but the last 4 haven't done much for me.


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## JSanta (Jan 15, 2017)

Maybe it's just me getting older, but these guys were basically my soundtrack for my late teens and early 20s. Everything up to Be (and some awesome tracks on Scarsick) hit the mark for me. On those first albums, there wasn't a song that I just didn't love. I can still go back and listen to those albums with the same appreciation. The Road Salt stuff and this album just miss the mark as far as I'm concerned. Daniel is supremely talented, I respect the heck out of him. Maybe it's like comparing old and new DT. Appreciate it for what it is and not for what it isn't?


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## jameslabrie (Jan 15, 2017)

JSanta said:


> Maybe it's just me getting older, but these guys were basically my soundtrack for my late teens and early 20s. Everything up to Be (and some awesome tracks on Scarsick) hit the mark for me. On those first albums, there wasn't a song that I just didn't love. I can still go back and listen to those albums with the same appreciation. The Road Salt stuff and this album just miss the mark as far as I'm concerned. Daniel is supremely talented, I respect the heck out of him. Maybe it's like comparing old and new DT. Appreciate it for what it is and not for what it isn't?



This describes me pretty much as well, with the difference that I love Road Salt 1, 2 had its moments, but the concept just felt a bit stale for me since it went a year or two between the releases and I've never clicked with that second disc. Falling Home is also an album which just doesn't interest me, but I might get back to that now that the line-up seems to be stable again. What I think about the new release I'll just copy what I wrote on the MP.com forum:

"Wow, I'm absolutely floored. After my first listen I felt quite empty, perhaps numb from all the emotion and didn't really know what to think. Now on my fifth or sixth I've "got it". It's perhaps their best album. Still, it's very different from everything they've done before, it's not great in the same way as TPE or Remedy Lane is great. The album is heavy and I don't mean that in terms of musicality, it's like a door into the heart of darkness within Daniel. Not an easy listen, but still perfect in every way for what it set out to accomplish. I love it, instant classic. 

I heartily recommend the Metal Talks episode with Daniel on Spotify where he talks about the album, having the lyrics explained so you can relate them to them while listening to the songs is absolutely essential to make the most of this album."

I'll add to this that the mix bothered me at first, especially the drums I thought sounded quite .... from day one, but after listening to the Metal Talks thingy on Spotify I can now appreciate it.


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## DLG (Jan 16, 2017)

New album has its moments, but overall, it's just not that great. 

It's missing too many of the things that made me fall in love with PoS. 

The vocals seem very basic and tame. No more of those moments when there are three difference vocal melodies going on at the same time, no really huge harmonies any more, no crazy high notes. Daniel still has a great voice, he just isn't that exciting anymore. 

I like some stuff on the album. The first couple tracks are decent. I like Meaningless more than I did when it came out. 

Full Throttle Tribe has a cool chorus, but also a bunch of boring moments. 

The second half of the album is pretty boring overall. That last song has no business lasting 15 minutes. 

Wish there were more keyboards too. 

Overall, not crappy, but not coming close to PoS in their prime in any way.


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## Dyingsea (Jan 16, 2017)

Agreed, with the 2nd half of the album feeling a bit drawn out and stale per-se. I also wish there were more keyboards and general atmosphere. Still need more time to ingest it all.


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## vividox (Jan 16, 2017)

So far my only real impression is: this is emotionally heavy. I feel like I should be crying by the end of it, but I don't really know why yet. I'll definitely need to check out that Metal Talks episode.


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## Herrick (Jan 16, 2017)

DLG said:


> New album has its moments, but overall, it's just not that great.
> 
> It's missing too many of the things that made me fall in love with PoS.
> 
> ...



Pretty much agreed but I like all of Full Throttle Tribe. 

The Passing Light of Day (last track) doesn't get kinda good until the half way point. It kind of reminds me a little of Silverchair for some reason. 

The guitar work is underwhelming and I don't mean just the lack of guitar solos. I'd say the album is about as good as Scarsick was...for me anyway.


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## Dyingsea (Jan 16, 2017)

I think that's about right for me too. It's about like Scarsick. Not really sure if it's good or not.


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## wankerness (Jan 17, 2017)

As Scarsick is about my least favorite album of all time, this discussion has me very apprehensive about listening to this!


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## Xaios (Jan 17, 2017)

wankerness said:


> As Scarsick is about my least favorite album of all time, this discussion has me very apprehensive about listening to this!



Ditto. While it's not the worst thing I've ever heard, it really only has 3 songs I like (Disco Queen, Kingdom of Loss & Enter Rain). I *wanted* to love it, and even felt like I just didn't get it based on the brilliance of all their prior albums, but eventually that gave way to the realization that, yeah, it just wasn't good.


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## DLG (Jan 18, 2017)

Both Scarsick and Be are cringy to me. This one isn't cringy, it's just not that good. 

There are at least three songs on this album I'd rather listen to than all of Scarsick and Be.


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## Ralyks (Jan 18, 2017)

I like the new album... right now. We'll see how it holds up. At least, my favorite thing under the PoS label since Remedy Lane. I didn't HATE Scarsick, Be was a bit too out there for me, and the Road Salt albums, well, REALLY had to be in the mood for those albums.


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## vilk (Jan 18, 2017)

I just cannot tell you how many times I read this thread title as _Pain of Salvation about to bring the black metal_


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## chopeth (Jan 19, 2017)

vilk said:


> I just cannot tell you how many times I read this thread title as _Pain of Salvation about to bring the black metal_



Yeah, it happened to me too  , read to quick and be a little bit obsessed with BM


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## Herrick (Jan 19, 2017)

Ralyks said:


> I like the new album... right now. We'll see how it holds up. At least, my favorite thing under the PoS label since Remedy Lane. I didn't HATE Scarsick, Be was a bit too out there for me, and the Road Salt albums, well, REALLY had to be in the mood for those albums.



That's pretty much how I feel about the new album. Much like Scarsick, it's an album I'm not going to listen to a whole lot but I *will* listen to it sometimes so it's worth a purchase. I wouldn't buy Be or the Road Salts because I'll most likely never want to listen to them again. 

I can't even say that about Be because I only heard it once and was like  I should probably give it another listen but there's just too much good stuff out there and Herrick's precious time is limited. I've books to read, Star Trek shows to watch, and world's to save (video games).


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## Cheap Poison (Jan 19, 2017)

Seeing as there is some Scarsick hate. I probably wouldn't say it is a great record, but there I still think it has a few killer tracks.


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## Xaios (Jan 19, 2017)

Always surprised by the amount of hate for BE. For me it's part of the integral Pain of Salvation experience. Yeah it's not at the same level as The Perfect Element or Remedy Lane, but I probably enjoy it about as much as One Hour By the Concrete Lake.

I listened to most of the album last night. It's... okay. Better than Scarsick & Road Salts, but not up to the classics. It seems like a fusion of the subject matter and intensity of Remedy Lane, the dryness of One Our By the Concrete Lake and the instrumentation style of Road Salt. (YMMV)

At this point, these are where Pain of Salvation albums (12:5 and Falling Home excluded) fall in my mind:

The Perfect Element > Remedy Lane > Entropia> BE = One Hour By the Concrete Lake > The Passing Light of Day > Scarsick

(I'm also excluding Road Salts, because I haven't listened to them enough to really judge them objectively. All I can say is that I have no desire to listen to them.)


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## wankerness (Jan 19, 2017)

Inside Out, Water, Home, and the intros to Inside and Handful of Nothing alone put One Hour by the Concrete Lake wayyyy ahead of BE. I think it's more consistent (well, after you get past the sloggy Big Machine and New Year's Eve) and much easier to listen to all the way through than Entropia, too. Handful of Nothing through Inside Out are GREAT. 

Entropia is pretty scattershot and overlong. I keep thinking the album is almost over, but nope, it just keeps spitting out songs, and most of them aren't very good! ! (Foreword), People Passing By (though it's too long and eventually gets boring), Nightmist, Revival and especially Stress are very good. But, none of them besides maybe Stress are as good as Inside Out, Water or Home!!


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## DLG (Jan 20, 2017)

you don't like New Year's Eve? That's pretty much a top 5 PoS chorus. Love that song. 

Big Machine is brilliant too. Love that "what if we lose control?" part at the end. 

I can't really listen to them objectively though. Both Entropia and One Hour were life-changing for me. I know every note of those albums and could probably play air every instrument in my sleep


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## Dyingsea (Jan 20, 2017)

I'll jump in on the concrete lake bandwagon here too as I'm surprised so many don't like it. It's my second fav behind PE pt.1.


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## Ralyks (Jan 20, 2017)

I love Concrete Lake, although the production feels a little shoddy to me. But Inside, Inside Out, Handful of Nothing, Water? Easily some of my favorite PoS tunes.


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## wankerness (Jan 20, 2017)

DLG said:


> you don't like New Year's Eve? That's pretty much a top 5 PoS chorus. Love that song.
> 
> Big Machine is brilliant too. Love that "what if we lose control?" part at the end.
> 
> I can't really listen to them objectively though. Both Entropia and One Hour were life-changing for me. I know every note of those albums and could probably play air every instrument in my sleep



I like them alright, it's just they stuck the two slowest, stompiest ones right in a row at the beginning and that made it so I sometimes skip past them to get to the incredible songs. Black Hills is the only other heavy, slow one on there, and it has that fast back half. I dunno. I think sticking those two as tracks 3 and 4 made them sound more boring than they would have been if they'd been separated.


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## Xaios (Jan 20, 2017)

at this discussion.

In any case, I think we can also still agree that The Perfect Element and Remedy Lane are the best.


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## wankerness (Jan 21, 2017)

Yeah, LAUGH IT UP! I can post about the first 4 pain of salvation albums for pages upon pages. Sorta like the first several Opeth albums or any post-Silent Enigma Anathema albums. (or Tori Amos's first several) They're the albums I've digested the most thoroughly over the last 15 years!


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## Herrick (Jan 22, 2017)

One Hour by the Concrete Lake may be my favorite album of theirs. The first half is pretty much perfect for me and the rest of the album is very good.

Back to the new album. I like Tongue of God (the second track) but the "cry in the shower line" just sounds so lame.


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## Dyingsea (Jan 22, 2017)

wankerness said:


> (or Tori Amos's first several)



Unbelievable albums


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## wankerness (Jan 23, 2017)

Herrick said:


> One Hour by the Concrete Lake may be my favorite album of theirs. The first half is pretty much perfect for me and the rest of the album is very good.
> 
> Back to the new album. I like Tongue of God (the second track) but the "cry in the shower line" just sounds so lame.



Argh. That lyric alone makes me even less optimistic. The biggest thing that destroyed Scarsick for me was the way the lyrics seemed to jump from some of the best lyrics I've ever heard in metal/prog (which the songs were totally written around) to what it might have sounded like if Fred Durst turned into an angry luddite. "F*** this, F*** that, F*** escalators, I'm sick of homies" or something. I can't remember and don't want to listen to it again!!

Compare that crap to something like "this heart of mine," which is one of the best-written love songs I've ever read, and ugh. Did Gildenlow have some terrible crisis that turned him into ANGAR MAN or what?



Dyingsea said:


> Unbelievable albums



Definitely. I had a music professor that indoctrinated me by using "Crucified" in class and then giving us the option to write about "Sorta Fairytale" and I got hooked pretty quick. Years earlier, I'd heard Boys for Pele and To Venus and Back after hearing "she is like Nine Inch Nails" and didn't really like them. But man, after seriously listening to a couple songs in college, I drank the Kool Aid. Little Earthquakes is one of the best albums I've ever heard, and I listened to To Venus And Back, Scarlet's Walk, and From the Choirgirl Hotel approximately 10,000 times, along with some of the tracks off the other albums in there just as much (Space Dog, Baker Baker, Cloud on My Tongue, Hey Jupiter, Marianne, Father Lucifer, Caught a Lite Sneeze, Putting the Damage On, etcetcetc). Oh, and plenty of B-Sides. I finally saw her live around 2007 on the Doll Posse tour. I've kind of grown away from her since then, with the last album I really gave serious attention to being Midwinter Graces, but those early ones..man. "Mother" in particular is one of those songs that just teleports me instantly. Her voice on earlier stuff like that and Upside Down is basically my favorite sound. She's an acquired taste (to say the least), but there were YEARS where she was practically the only thing I listened too.

TL;DR, OT

SO, Pain of Salvation! Did they really "bring the metal," or is most of this lighter than that second single?


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## DLG (Jan 23, 2017)

Herrick said:


> One Hour by the Concrete Lake may be my favorite album of theirs. The first half is pretty much perfect for me and the rest of the album is very good.
> 
> Back to the new album. I like Tongue of God (the second track) but the "cry in the shower line" just sounds so lame.



this reminds me of a crucial OHBTCL cringe moment in Water. 

WE FLUSH

FLUSH

AND WEEEEEEE FLUSH


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## Ralyks (Jan 23, 2017)

DLG said:


> this reminds me of a crucial OHBTCL cringe moment in Water.
> 
> WE FLUSH
> 
> ...



As much as I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Water, that part makes me  every time


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## Herrick (Jan 25, 2017)

DLG said:


> this reminds me of a crucial OHBTCL cringe moment in Water.
> 
> WE FLUSH
> 
> ...



LoL! Thanks that line will always make me chuckle now


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## wankerness (Feb 19, 2017)

I finally bought this album, since I am an old man who tries to do that before listening to stuff if it's from an artist I'm familiar with. I've only listened to the first disc, cause it was really draining. But damn if there isn't some great stuff on here. I still think that second single sounds like frickin Drowning Pool, but the first track and especially the title track are great. It's not a patch on any of their classic stuff as it's so stripped down and dry in the style of their last few, but it's far, FAR better than anything on their last few. But yeah, that title track is so incredibly depressing that I just couldn't make myself listen to the second disc right away, haha. I'll get around to it sometime.


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## Herrick (Feb 20, 2017)

I didn't know there was a second disc. Looks like it's all demo stuff which I've never been a fan of. 

This album has definitely grown on me. The first 6 songs are really good. The rest are good but I'm still not a fan of most of The Taming of a Beast.


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## vividox (Feb 20, 2017)

Saw them in KC last Thursday. Really, really good live show and it made me appreciate the new album a LOT more. _Reasons_ and _Meaningless_ were already growing on me quite a bit, but seeing _Full Throttle Tribe_ and _On A Tuesday_ live made me appreciate them a lot more as well.

They also played _Trace of Blood, Rope Ends_, and _Beyond the Pale_, so yeah, that was sweet.

I've probably listened to the new album more since the concert last Thursday than I had leading up to it.

Humble brag: the place they played at in KC was an itty bitty dive, and there were only around 150 people total in attendance. I ended up being the third person to show up, so I was literally standing two feet from Daniel during the entire set.


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## Discoqueen (Feb 20, 2017)

^ That is so good to hear! 



Xaios said:


> Ditto. While it's not the worst thing I've ever heard, it really only has 3 songs I like (Disco Queen, Kingdom of Loss & Enter Rain). I *wanted* to love it, and even felt like I just didn't get it based on the brilliance of all their prior albums, but eventually that gave way to the realization that, yeah, it just wasn't good.



You rang??

Oh wait lol, anyways! Is anyone going to be seeing them on their North American tour?? I have tickets for this Friday!!

I haven't listened to the new album yet, I think they are just playing through it on the tour, so I figured I'd just pick up a copy when I see them ^.^


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## Herrick (Feb 20, 2017)

Discoqueen said:


> ^ That is so good to hear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think they're playing in NYC this weekend. I'd really like to see them but I don't want to use a personal day to take off from work so early in the year.


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## Discoqueen (Feb 26, 2017)

They really tore it up live. Their live sound was fricken huge. Zoidberg'z tone ate lives. This album felt so much more brutal live, and the band is just so intense. They were jumping and spinning and it felt like a really short set, but everyone is the room was exhausted. 

It's almost disappointing listening to "In the Passing Light of Day" in my headphones, because my goodness, I can not stress enough how ridiculous the band was live. 

Btw, Zoidberg (I know that's not his name, but it is now) is such a babe. And I almost cried at the end because Daniel was like, "have a nice life," like, it was so bittersweet because I don't know if I'll ever get to see them again, but that was certainly a nod to the possibility that they'd never play in Buffalo again. I don't know. Now I made myself sad :'(


Retort to Humble brag: there was nowhere near close to 150 at the show I was at. I was five feet from Daniel the whole time and Zoidberg was standing over me practically!


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## Herrick (Feb 26, 2017)

Discoqueen said:


> Btw, Zoidberg (I know that's not his name, but it is now)


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## Ralyks (Feb 27, 2017)

Discoqueen said:


> And I almost cried at the end because Daniel was like, "have a nice life," like, it was so bittersweet because I don't know if I'll ever get to see them again, but that was certainly a nod to the possibility that they'd never play in Buffalo again. I don't know. Now I made myself sad :'(



Damn, I should have visited my in-laws in Buffalo as an excuse to have gotten to that show


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## Xaios (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm surprised that they're actually willing to play in the US currently. They had basically blackballed the US for a lot of the time Bush was president, so I'm kinda shocked they'd be willing to play here with Trump as head honcho.

(I know the official reason was due to issues with fingerprinting policy, but I'm not really sure that holds up given that they announced they would be touring the US again pretty much right as soon as Obama was elected.)


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## Herrick (Feb 28, 2017)

Xaios said:


> I'm surprised that they're actually willing to play in the US currently. They had basically blackballed the US for a lot of the time Bush was president, so I'm kinda shocked they'd be willing to play here with Trump as head honcho.
> 
> (I know the official reason was due to issues with fingerprinting policy, but I'm not really sure that holds up given that they announced they would be touring the US again pretty much right as soon as Obama was elected.)



Reality set it. Gildenlow isn't going to refuse to play in the US every time a Republican president is in power.


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## crazyprofessor (Mar 11, 2017)

My first impression of this album was meh. The second track, Tounge of God, stuck with me though. So after a while I picked it back up again and now I've been listening nonstop for two weeks. It is stellar. Just give it a second change folks.


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## Repner (Mar 11, 2017)

crazyprofessor said:


> My first impression of this album was meh. The second track, Tounge of God, stuck with me though. So after a while I picked it back up again and now I've been listening nonstop for two weeks. It is stellar. Just give it a second change folks.



I thought it might be a grower. I listened to it for the first time yesterday, and wasn't blown away. But I did think it might be one that I'll need to take the time to digest.


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## JSanta (Mar 29, 2017)

I really didn't care for this album. But just like a couple of their other records (Be for instance), listening several times has really made me like it. I forgot how much I used to love this band.


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## Repner (Apr 30, 2017)

Looks like Daniel's ego has gotten out of hand. Ragnar is out.

https://www.facebook.com/ragnar.zolberg/posts/1563039813709313



Ragnar Zolberg said:


> I quit Pain of Salvation in 2013 after having been in the band for 1 year only. It was nothing like what I had expected and I had come to understand why some members before me had also left. At that time Roger stepped in and did the acoustic tour in which he did a very good job!
> About one year later I was asked to do one more gig, prognation at sea, I agreed. When I showed up for rehearsals Daniel had been hospitalised and asked me to fill in his shoes for the show, after he got better he asked me to join the band again and write the next album with him. I love to make albums so I decided to stick around a little longer.
> Recently, with our album In the Passing Light of Day the band has been doing considerably better. An album which Daniel and I wrote together during a 2 year time period and I also lent some of my previous compositions to it. With a lot of dedication, sacrifices and help from various people we managed to go from almost being dropped from the record label to selling a descent amount of albums and playing to sold out shows. Something that I am very proud of and obviously very grateful for the love shown to us by the kind people attending our shows.
> I have had a great time with my friends Gustaf Hielm, Daniel Karlsson and Léo Margarit. I am going to miss hanging out with them as much, they are the biggest reason I managed to stay all this time. <3
> ...


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## wankerness (Apr 30, 2017)

Repner said:


> Looks like Daniel's ego has gotten out of hand. Ragnar is out.



Isn't that kind of how he's always been?


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## Repner (May 1, 2017)

Maybe. I know it can kinda come with the band leader role, but he seemed better than that to me for some reason.


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## Laimon (May 1, 2017)

Repner said:


> Maybe. I know it can kinda come with the band leader role, but he seemed better than that to me for some reason.



And I thought member were quitting due to the ....ty music he was writing.


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## JSanta (May 1, 2017)

Daniel just posted that Johan has rejoined:

After a few years of working together with Ragnar, I feel that we have come to a point where it is necessary to part ways. It feels very sad, because we are losing a great vocalist and stage personality in Ragnar. It felt great writing the new album together with him, and I am very thankful for that time. We all are. But with time it has become clear that his true place is not in this band. Musically, it has worked very well, but there are so many other variables that need to click in order to make a band strong and stable.
We are not going into a period of uncertainty, but one of deliberate change and strength. We have a great record label and a great management/booking company that have both told us that they understand our decision, and that they back us up and support us fully through this. All scheduled shows will happen as planned. How? Well, we are happy to announce that, starting today, Johan Hallgren will be returning to the band as a full member again, and we will go full throttle ahead through this. We are very happy about seeing him back onboard, and we are sure you will accept him back with open arms, as will we.
One thing that we are looking forward to a lot is the regained possibility to meet up and rehearse more often, which is one of the main reasons why I started playing music in the first place: to have that small and devoted tribe, standing in a sweaty rehearsing room, sharing a stupid dream. And then making it come true.
So, a new chapter in the life of Pain of Salvation, and yet not. We hurt, we heal, we rise. And we keep delivering, that is a promise. We hope for your love and support through this. We want to thank Ragnar for the good years together with us, and wish him all the luck with his future endeavours. And again, we warmly welcome Johan Hallgren back to our family!
Peace,
Daniel & Pain of Salvation
What the band members and Johan himself has to say about his return to the band:
Johan Hallgren:
&#8220;Already when I quit the band, I felt that I really wanted to come back. This feels fun as hell, and I will go into this with full force &#8211; hook, line and sinker. I have promised myself to supersede everyone&#8217;s expectations of my return. This is something I know well, and I am damn good at it. And more than that, I have really missed them all &#8211; it&#8217;s a wonderful gang!&#8221;
Daniel D2 Karlsson:
&#8220;I am very happy to see Johan back &#8211; I actually feel quite exalted. Johan is a wonderful human being with a warm heart, and he&#8217;s got a fantastic charisma as a musician. I am convinced our fans will welcome him with a warm embrace.&#8221;
Léo Margarit:
&#8220;It&#8217;s great that Johan is back &#8211; a good friend. I am certain the fans will be very happy, he was a beloved band member, and many were sad to see him go. It will be very fun to play with him again!&#8221;


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## Doug N (May 1, 2017)

I hear other people say the same thing on this site all the time, but how the F have I never heard of this band? They seem pretty much in my wheelhouse, it's so crazy that you can stumble on to a band like this that's been around forever.


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## Laimon (May 1, 2017)

Doug N said:


> I hear other people say the same thing on this site all the time, but how the F have I never heard of this band? They seem pretty much in my wheelhouse, it's so crazy that you can stumble on to a band like this that's been around forever.



Wow, happy catching up then! 
Remedy Lane, The Perfect Element and Entropia alone should keep you entertained for a looooong time!


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## Ralyks (May 1, 2017)

I love Daniel as a musician, but he always sounded like he wasn't the most pleasant person.

That said, I'm extremely happy Johan is back. He definitely was a big part about what made some of those early records magical.


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## wankerness (May 1, 2017)

Ralyks said:


> I love Daniel as a musician, but he always sounded like he wasn't the most pleasant person.
> 
> That said, I'm extremely happy Johan is back. He definitely was a big part about what made some of those early records magical.



The drummer was the biggest one, listening to the new Remedy Lane live disc. He had what seemed at first listen like a really loose sound, but he was doing INCREDIBLY technical stuff and making it sound really easy. The new guy sounded like he was dying when playing stuff like Fandango and Rope Ends. The old bassist also did a lot of interesting stuff, despite being buried in the mix most of the time. Lots of varied effects and interesting fills and swaps between fretted/fretless and the occasional slapping. 

I've always just assumed Daniel was a dick, especially after BE and Scarsick. I try not to ever read interviews with musicians cause they're so rarely both intelligent and good dudes. I try to just stick to the music and avoid anything non-musical that could possibly reduce my enjoyment of it!


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## JSanta (May 1, 2017)

wankerness said:


> The drummer was the biggest one, listening to the new Remedy Lane live disc. He had what seemed at first listen like a really loose sound, but he was doing INCREDIBLY technical stuff and making it sound really easy. The new guy sounded like he was dying when playing stuff like Fandango and Rope Ends. The old bassist also did a lot of interesting stuff, despite being buried in the mix most of the time. Lots of varied effects and interesting fills and swaps between fretted/fretless and the occasional slapping.
> 
> I've always just assumed Daniel was a dick, especially after BE and Scarsick. I try not to ever read interviews with musicians cause they're so rarely both intelligent and good dudes. I try to just stick to the music and avoid anything non-musical that could possibly reduce my enjoyment of it!



I actually emailed back and forth with Daniel right after Remedy Lane had come out and he was quite nice in the emails.

What I feel like based on the song material, and the rotating band members is that he is a controlling person in many ways - in recent interviews I've seen, he just comes across as pretentious. 

I didn't like Ragnar in the band, but if what he said was true, shame on Daniel.


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## Repner (May 1, 2017)

He was always very nice to me and other fans the times I spoke to him. He has a lot of respect for the fans. That doesn't tell you how they'll act behind the scenes however.


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## Sang-Drax (May 2, 2017)

Johan is awesome live, and I like his guitar skills better than Ragnar's. in fact, my favorite all-time PoS solos are his. However, Ragnar was such an important piece songwritingwise! If I were Daniel I'd do everything in my power to keep that dude on the band, seriously. 

Now, I wonder what are these credits Ragnar is talking about. I mean, we know that _Meaningless_ is like 95% his, but he's credited as songwriter for every song in the latest album. I reckon his contribution in some of the songs isn't as intense, and even so the credits are the same. He posted two early songs that would later become _Falling Home_ and parts of _On a Tuesday_, and both were quite different from the PoS version (as opposed to _Meaningless_, which was barely modified). I figure the differences are Daniel's doing.

Besides, he did appear a lot in the two videoclips they released since he joined (_Meaningless_ and _Falling Home_), not to mention plenty of lead vocals live, even in old songs like _Undertow_, _This Heart of Mine_, and _Waking Every God_. The way I see it, he might as well have been underpaid, but there was plenty of recognition of his value in the band.



wankerness said:


> The old bassist also did a lot of interesting stuff, despite being buried in the mix most of the time. Lots of varied effects and interesting fills and swaps between fretted/fretless and the occasional slapping.



I miss Kristoffer Gildenlöw more than anything or anyone else in the band. He wrote quite a few memorable basslines around. At least they have a dedicated bassist no. Gustaf is no Kristoffer, it seems, but it was so bland with Daniel playing it.


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## fps (May 10, 2017)

Couldn't make it to track 2...

Because the first track moved me so enormously I had to go back and listen to it again. It would appear, after the wilderness years, they're back.


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## Ralyks (May 10, 2017)

Sang-Drax said:


> I miss Kristoffer Gildenlöw more than anything or anyone else in the band. He wrote quite a few memorable basslines around. At least they have a dedicated bassist no. Gustaf is no Kristoffer, it seems, but it was so bland with Daniel playing it.



I miss Kristoffer as well, but hey... Gustaf played on Chaosphere.... I guess...

Man I miss that Concrete Lake/Perfect Element/Remedy Lane line up


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## viniko (Jul 7, 2017)

Man, i REALLY miss those fretless bass lines...


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## wankerness (Jul 8, 2017)

viniko said:


> Man, i REALLY miss those fretless bass lines...



Didn't he pretty much only use fretless on (most of) The Perfect Element anyway? I agree it adds a ton to much of that album, of course. Especially in some of the more unexpected places, like Ashes or King of Loss, that I doubt many people would have thought to use fretless on. IIRC Remedy Lane just had the expected usage (ballads).

(Can't say I was listening for it specifically when listening to the albums, that and Remedy Lane are just the two I have so internalized I can remember most of the bass lines)


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## viniko (Jul 13, 2017)

Yes, TPE, OHBTCL and RL all have some tasty fretless bass lines, i was hoping for some more on TPLOT, maybe in the next one haha.


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## Xaios (Jul 14, 2017)

My considered opinion of the album after a couple months:

Meh.

"On A Tuesday" starts promisingly enough, but devolves into boredom midway through. Honestly, there's not a single song on the album that I really like the whole way through. I suppose "Full Throttle Tribe" probably comes closest, but even it doesn't quite get there.


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## vividox (Jul 17, 2017)

It's really grown on me and I like it a lot. Seeing them play most of it live got me into a few I hadn't considered. Only one I'm not a big fan of is _Tongue of God_. The music is fine, but the lyrics creep me the hell out. I guess that's probably the point. But yeah, _Meaningless, Reasons_, and _Full Throttle Tribe_ are really good singles, and the_ On A Tuesday / If This is the End / The Passing Light of Day_ thematic tracks are incredibly emotionally heavy.


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## DLG (Jul 17, 2017)

Xaios said:


> My considered opinion of the album after a couple months:
> 
> Meh.
> 
> "On A Tuesday" starts promisingly enough, but devolves into boredom midway through. Honestly, there's not a single song on the album that I really like the whole way through. I suppose "Full Throttle Tribe" probably comes closest, but even it doesn't quite get there.



FTT has a very unnecessary middle section that really brings the track down. Agree with you that the album is a great big "meh" though Meaningless is overall a damn good song.

Saw them live about a month ago, third time seeing them live since 2005, and all I'm going to say is that Caligula's Horse were about 10 times more engaging and interesting, definitely stole the show for me.


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