# Learning Some Upper Structure Theory



## MrPepperoniNipples (Sep 26, 2012)

So I'm going to be going over some upper structure theory stuff with my teacher next week, and I'm supposed to have some sort of idea of what it is going into the lesson so we can get down to the business.

I've been trying to learn online, but the articles and tutorials I've found don't really give me an idea of what upper structure theory _is_, but instead various rules and guidelines for it.

So I ask you, when you get down to it, what is upper structure theory?


EDIT: Also, I'm seeing a lot about "avoid" notes that don't 'work' with the chord.

In a Major 7th chord, it said the 11 is to be avoided.

How is it determined that a note it to be or not to be avoided?


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## Dayn (Sep 27, 2012)

I've heard the term 'avoid note' in my copy of The Jazz Theory Book. For a major 7th chord, the 11th is avoided because there's a tritone between the major 7th and 11th. Similarly, in a minor 6th chord, I suppose the avoid note would be the major 9th.

As for upper structure theory? I profess profound ignorance.

Edit: Of course, 'avoid' only as a term to describe its dissonance. The dominant 7th chord has a tritone between the minor 7th and major 3rd, but it's awesome.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Sep 27, 2012)

"Upper structure" refers to extensions beyond the seventh. These include ninths, elevenths, and thirteenths. They're typically used to add color to a chord. When voicing a chord with extensions, all you need is the root (maybe not even that, although I like to include it), the third, the seventh, and whatever the highest extension is. As far as "avoid notes" go, don't worry about them. In my book, they don't exist. If you play something and it sounds off, you've stumbled onto a dissonance and you will probably want to resolve it. 



Dayn said:


> I've heard the term 'avoid note' in my copy of The Jazz Theory Book. For a major 7th chord, the 11th is avoided because there's a tritone between the major 7th and 11th. Similarly, in a minor 6th chord, I suppose the avoid note would be the major 9th.
> 
> As for upper structure theory? I profess profound ignorance.
> 
> Edit: Of course, 'avoid' only as a term to describe its dissonance. The dominant 7th chord has a tritone between the minor 7th and major 3rd, but it's awesome.



Almost. The perfect eleventh is avoided in chords with a major third because of the minor second betwen 3 and 4.


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## Grimbold (Sep 27, 2012)

i did not know that was called upper structure theory

*Feels like a badass because he knows upper structure theory*


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Sep 27, 2012)

It's not, but I get what he means. 

"Upper structure" is the notes of an extended chord beyond the seventh. This is a subset of the information that is covered when discussing extended tertian chords, which is in turn a subset of tertian harmony, which is all under the umbrella of Western tonality.

This song has a lot of upper-structure notes in the melody:









(That's an awful transcription, by the way. Use a goddamn key signature!)


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## Grimbold (Sep 28, 2012)

is it wrong that the first song i thought of when seeing "girl from ipanema" was this?


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Sep 28, 2012)

No upper structure there.


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## Grimbold (Sep 29, 2012)

SchecterWhore said:


> No upper structure there.


indeed there is not

but steel panther is still awesome


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## Trespass (Sep 30, 2012)

In a jazz context, when talking about upper structures, it usually refers to the practice of using second inversion triads to voice extensions. (Upper structure triads)

The basic premise is that triads are very consonant and simple structures. 
By using triads that outline the extensions of a chord, your very consonantly and elegantly outlining those extensions.

Ex) Cm7 could be voiced with a second inversion Bb triad, giving you the 4th, 7th, and 9th of Cm. (The bass player would carry the root). You could call this a Cm11

The voicing of (C) F Bb D 
is much more elegant and interesting than saying (C) Eb G Bb D F
(Try it out on a piano)

Before anyone freaks out and call it a C7sus4, the assumption is your using it to voice a Cm7 in a chart. Someone else (soloist, pianist, vibist, bassist) will 90% of the time hit the third*. 

In fact, your not limited to just playing one voicing per measure. You could play a Bb major triad, and voice lead into an Eb major triad (which includes the b3, 5, b7).

Here are some clear examples:

Cm7

F over Cm7: (C) C F A -- (R) R 11 13
Eb over Cm7: (C) Bb Eb G -- (R) 7 b3 5
Gm over Cm7: (C) D G Bb -- (R) 9 5 7

etc.

Pretty much any major (most common) or minor triad

Gb over Cm7: (C) Db Gb Bb -- (R) b9 b5 7


Second inversion triads are pretty universally strong structures because they place the third on top (great, and have bonus points for having a fourth between the 5 and 1 (which is cool in postbop jazz).


*The 10% other moments, we call ambiguous, a "reharm", or whatever. Sometimes those moments are intentional (I certainly would pursue that sound if I heard a guitar playing comping that as a pianist), sometimes their not.


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## Trespass (Sep 30, 2012)

MrPepperoniNipples said:


> In a Major 7th chord, it said the 11 is to be avoided.
> 
> How is it determined that a note it to be or not to be avoided?



The musical tastes and trends of it's time. 

Pre-bebop, it was a faux-pas to use #11s (see "flat fifth jokes). In the bebop era, it was common to play lydian over maj7ths, but the #11 was usually phrased on an upbeat anyways (meaning you don't really hear it prominently in the phrase). In modal jazz, emphasizing/sitting on/ending phrases on #11 was pretty popular.

Now, there is a new organized way of dealing with extended harmony in modern players, that would not be considered consonant without the work that came before it. See below.



SchecterWhore said:


> "Upper structure" refers to extensions beyond the seventh. These include ninths, elevenths, and thirteenths. They're typically used to add color to a chord. When voicing a chord with extensions, all you need is the root (maybe not even that, although I like to include it), the third, the seventh, and whatever the highest extension is. As far as "avoid notes" go, don't worry about them. In my book, they don't exist. If you play something and it sounds off, you've stumbled onto a dissonance and you will probably want to resolve it.
> 
> Almost. The perfect eleventh is avoided in chords with a major third because of the minor second betwen 3 and 4.



Absolutely correct. 

The cool thing in modern jazz (post-Rosenwinkel, Monder and co. which is 90s - present) is to explore typically faux pas voicings.

If you listen to cats like Monder, a lot of his voicings of maj7s will have b9s in the structure (B on the bottom, C on the top), or feature the natural 11th. Minor chords with a b13th are very common since Rosenwinkel got into them. (typically voiced in fourths -- (A) G C F B for an Am7b13, for example).

Exploring advanced melodic minor substitutions (and harmonic major) are also trendy and are already the trademark of this era (lydian scales with #5 [A melodic minor over Cmaj7], four different mm subs for dominant chords [altered doms are becoming increasingly old fashioned], three different common mm subs for m7)


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## Grimbold (Oct 1, 2012)

Trespass said:


> The cool thing in modern jazz (post-Rosenwinkel, Monder and co. which is 90s - present) is to explore typically faux pas voicings.
> 
> If you listen to cats like Monder, a lot of his voicings of maj7s will have b9s in the structure (B on the bottom, C on the top), or feature the natural 11th. Minor chords with a b13th are very common since Rosenwinkel got into them. (typically voiced in fourths -- (A) G C F B for an Am7b13, for example).
> 
> Exploring advanced melodic minor substitutions (and harmonic major) are also trendy and are already the trademark of this era (lydian scales with #5 [A melodic minor over Cmaj7], four different mm subs for dominant chords [altered doms are becoming increasingly old fashioned], three different common mm subs for m7)


harmonic minor "chords" as they are really bother me...
and also are waaaaay to much fun to play


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