# Transgender Girl Suffers Alleged Seizure After Group Beatdown In McDonalds



## caparison_x (Apr 25, 2011)

I saw this video on theync.com and thought it was pretty messed up the way no one but an old lady tries to stop this from happening

I dont know if this is a repost or what but is this really what america is like? or just an isolated incident which the media has made into a frenzy.

The seizure at the end is pretty sad to watch cause you know that person is going to have some brain damage at the end of it.

Black Girls' Beating In McDonald's Leads To White Girl's Seizure | News One

When I first saw the video on theync it simply said "SHOCK VIDEO: ANOTHER RACIAL BEATDOWN AT MCDONALDS (White Girl neraly Beaten to Death)"

I read on some other sites that the DA is considering charging them with a hate crime.

So is this an accurate picture of the USA today or something that rarely happens and is an unjustified hysterical news report.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

This makes me RAGE. What the FUCK is wrong with people?!


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## Murmel (Apr 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> This makes me RAGE. What the FUCK is wrong with people?!


Pretty much this.
I'm not even gonna watch the video, just reading the thread title made me pissed.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

There is no place for people like that in this world, and I find it sickening we don't have the courage to do what is necessary when faced with such malice.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

I had a whole Orb style TL-DR post typed out, but I'll save you all some time and paraphrase; Anyone who attacks someone like this just because they're different, is no better than the dogshit I just got done raking off my front lawn. Jesus FUKING christ, how did it come to this?


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## TreWatson (Apr 25, 2011)

for the record, they're calling it a hate crime (and it's only newsworthy because) it's not a normal girl, she's transgendered.

sad thing is, in baltimore, this is, well, not uncommon, and most times, it gets videotaped put up on youtube and no one thinks anything of it its just 'ignorant hoodrat shit'. but the details of the situation escalates it.

oh, and also,the black girls claimed they were scared and thought they were going to be raped.

i can't say anything to the legitimacy of that. i can SEE why theyd be scared but this isnt something you beat people to a pulp over.


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## BucketheadRules (Apr 25, 2011)

Some people are just like that, there's nothing you can do about it.

Makes me pissed though, the fact that people can find it in themselves to do that.


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## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

Very accurate portrayal of the U.S., in some portions.

However, if you even dare to say this sort of thing doesn't happen in London (or anywhere else with great groups of different people), you're a near sighted nitwit. 

The U.S. isn't in the shitter, Lybia isn't fucked, India isn't going to hell in a handbasket. It's the fucking world.


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah we just had a little incident down here where this 15yo boy was trying to make up with his ex gf over facebook. So he got a bunch of texts to meet her out at the ol mobile home. When he got there he got the shit beat out of him by her and some 18yo girl and a 20yo guy and some other guy. After beating him and breaking his bones wasnt enough they started shooting him. Not to kill him, just as torture. After that they set him on fire and cooked him to ashes. The ex gfs dad swept the ashes into a paint can and disposed of him then bleached the scene.


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## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

That's fucked, dude.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> Yeah we just had a little incident down here where this 15yo boy was trying to make up with his ex gf over facebook. So he got a bunch of texts to meet her out at the ol mobile home. When he got there he got the shit beat out of him by her and some 18yo girl and a 20yo guy and some other guy. After beating him and breaking his bones wasnt enough they started shooting him. Not to kill him, just as torture. After that they set him on fire and cooked him to ashes. The ex gfs dad swept the ashes into a paint can and disposed of him then bleached the scene.



Fuck. WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK.


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

lol yeah. The worst thing I heard about when I was living in England was a guy getting stabbed and some African-English (UK equivalent of African American lol?) kid getting racial slurs yelled at him. From my experience the majority of people in America seem to be very closed minded and quick to judge and hate people who are different.


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## maliciousteve (Apr 25, 2011)

TreWatson said:


> for the record, they're calling it a hate crime (and it's only newsworthy because) it's not a normal girl, she's transgendered.
> 
> sad thing is, in baltimore, this is, well, not uncommon, and most times, it gets videotaped put up on youtube and no one thinks anything of it its just 'ignorant hoodrat shit'. but the details of the situation escalates it.
> 
> ...



And I bet they only said that to make out what they did was right. If they were scared then self defence is valid, but this is not self defence it's 2 idiotic and cowardly pieces of shit. You don't beat people like that unless your life is on the line, this transgendered girl was clearly just using the bathroom at the wrong time. 

Unfortunately the world will not get any better in our life time, so we have to deal with these idiotic sub human pieces of crap.


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## ittoa666 (Apr 25, 2011)

If only each race didn't do things to perpetuate stereotypes. Since that's not the case, we have white trash, overly angry black people, thieving mexicans, and the list goes on. Maybe people are just all around bad.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

maliciousteve said:


> Unfortunately the world will not get any better in our life time, so we have to deal with these idiotic sub human pieces of crap.



I'm sorry man, but I just can't accept that. Before I die, I will do everything I can do make this world a better place. I know it's probably hopeless, but I see no other option.


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## caparison_x (Apr 25, 2011)

I think when the video was first uploaded the Trangendered thing wasn't in the title, 
and that this information has more recently come to light.

I also read that the reason the McDonald staff didnt do anything is because of another assault where a worker got shot trying to protect a woman from her boyfriend and McDonalds refused to pay the medical bill.


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> I'm sorry man, but I just can't accept that. Before I die, I will do everything I can do make this world a better place. I know it's probably hopeless, but I see no other option.


 

Exactly. The world is what people choose to make it. Everything that has ever and will ever happen in this world comes down to choices that every person makes.


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## 13point9 (Apr 25, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> If only each race didn't do things to perpetuate stereotypes. Since that's not the case, we have white trash, overly angry black people, thieving mexicans, and the list goes on. Maybe people are just all around bad.



Known as a self forfilling prophecy. If you are told you are that stereotype your whole life, you will end up that way. This isn't the case across the board but it definitely happens


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

I find it odd that attacks of this nature are called 'hate crimes'. It's hard to believe you'd like someone and pummel them into a fucking seizure. There should be no such thing as a hate crime. You either attack or murder someone or you don't. 

People are scum bags and none of us have the balls to deal with it properly. We'd rather shrug off the responsibility by putting them in jail. Kill em I say. Natural selection has a weak effect on the human race, sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands. Remove the bad parts of a society and everyone will benefit. Those thinking of doing evil will see what happens to those that do and think better. Make and example of a few to leave an impression on many.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> I had a whole Orb style TL-DR post typed out, but I'll save you all some time and paraphrase; Anyone who attacks someone like this just because they're different, is no better than the dogshit I just got done raking off my front lawn. Jesus FUKING christ, how did it come to this?


 
People have always acted this way. Of course, that doesn't make it any better, but it just goes to show that ppl don't change, they just find new things to hate. 


Vampiregenocide - True... It almost serves to suggest that other violent crimes are in some way justified bc the main motivation isn't misplaced hate.


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## Xaios (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> Yeah we just had a little incident down here where this 15yo boy was trying to make up with his ex gf over facebook. So he got a bunch of texts to meet her out at the ol mobile home. When he got there he got the shit beat out of him by her and some 18yo girl and a 20yo guy and some other guy. After beating him and breaking his bones wasnt enough they started shooting him. Not to kill him, just as torture. After that they set him on fire and cooked him to ashes. The ex gfs dad swept the ashes into a paint can and disposed of him then bleached the scene.





What.

The.

Fuck.


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## leandroab (Apr 25, 2011)

People = shit.


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## jymellis (Apr 25, 2011)

im down for a good scrap. in the middle of mcdonalds? adults? naw. i would have steped in. and i dont mean stand to the side and say thats enough


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## ittoa666 (Apr 25, 2011)

13point9 said:


> Known as a self forfilling prophecy. If you are told you are that stereotype your whole life, you will end up that way. This isn't the case across the board but it definitely happens


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## ry_z (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I find it odd that attacks of this nature are called 'hate crimes'. It's hard to believe you'd like someone and pummel them into a fucking seizure. There should be no such thing as a hate crime. You either attack or murder someone or you don't.



The term refers to an attack specifically based on (perceived) membership of some group; be it race, sexuality, etc. It's not just an attack on an individual, but an attempt to terrorize the group as a whole.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

ry_z said:


> The term refers to an attack specifically based on (perceived) membership of some group; be it race, sexuality, etc. It's not just an attack on an individual, but an attempt to terrorize the group as a whole.


 
Does that make it any worse? If this girl wasn't transgendered, and it was just some random girl, would that make this whole incident less sickening? No. When you attack someone it doesn't matter what background they're from, you're doing an evil act. By treating crimes based on that basis we make the distinction between people instead of treating everyone equally. 

Imo if you murder someone or beat them to a pulp, I don't care why you're off my Christmas card list.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

^ It just perpetuates the notion that those who are different NEED help or are weaker in some way... It's not at all true and it's probably not the intention, but it is how it comes across...


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Does that make it any worse? If this girl wasn't transgendered, and it was just some random girl, would that make this whole incident less sickening?


When you consider things like the Rwandan Genocide, and the Holocaust, and the Armenian Genocide, and the Nanking Massacre, yeah, it really fucking does matter that an entire group of people are being singled out.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> When you consider things like the Rwandan Genocide, and the Holocaust, and the Armenian Genocide, and the Nanking Massacre, yeah, it really fucking does matter that an entire group of people are being singled out.



Everything about Humanity is the problem with Humanity.


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## Fantomas (Apr 25, 2011)

They really should fire all the people who where working there that night.

I can imagine people not stepping into some big gang fight, but this was just 2 girls.


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## Scar Symmetry (Apr 25, 2011)

caparison_x said:


> I also read that the reason the McDonald staff didnt do anything is because of another assault where a worker got shot trying to protect a woman from her boyfriend and McDonalds refused to pay the medical bill.



This is the kind of thing that makes me want to abolish money altogether as this is prime evidence of how fucked up and greedy people can get with it. Businesses are protected by the small print and it's so fucked up that I can only bear to think about it in short bursts.

The business ethic of 'Maximum profit and zero accountability' is something that needs to be looked at quite seriously.


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## TreWatson (Apr 25, 2011)

KJ, when are you coming to jam with meeeee?

anyway. this girl was victimized, it's wrong, yes, we already know. i don;t think that's the main point that should be argued. what i personally found sickening about it was the fact that the girls felt justified to do this. that's what makes me feel like they are human trash.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> When you consider things like the Rwandan Genocide, and the Holocaust, and the Armenian Genocide, and the Nanking Massacre, yeah, it really fucking does matter that an entire group of people are being singled out.


 
That wasn't exactly the point... If Hitler had killed 6 million ppl at random would it have been less sad bc they weren't ALL Jews?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

Fantomas said:


> They really should fire all the people who where working there that night.
> 
> I can imagine people not stepping into some big gang fight, but this was just 2 girls.


 
Yea... And they need to hire Arsenio Hall's character from Coming to America "FREEZE YOU DISEASED RHINOCEROS PIZZLE!!!"


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> That wasn't exactly the point... If Hitler had killed 6 million ppl at random would it have been less sad bc they weren't ALL Jews?


 
I'm glad someone understands my point.  People getting hurt is upsetting regardless of why they were targeted.


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> That wasn't exactly the point... If Hitler had killed 6 million ppl at random would it have been less sad bc they weren't ALL Jews?



They weren't all Jews...

And on-topic, the perpetrators of this crime should be punished, harshly and quickly.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

You know what we meant. Don't be a douche.


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## Prydogga (Apr 25, 2011)

He knows they weren't all jews I'm sure. Oh, 

Relating to the original video, and the brutal, disgusting event Possumkiller had heard about:

NO FUCKING PLEASE. I cannot even comprehend in my mind how a human being can be so fucking desensitized to human emotion and the repercussions of brutally beating or killing someone else. I hope these 2 bitches get some serious fucking jail time, and a hefty sum of money comes out of their life to help repair the victims.


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## groph (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I find it odd that attacks of this nature are called 'hate crimes'. It's hard to believe you'd like someone and pummel them into a fucking seizure. There should be no such thing as a hate crime. You either attack or murder someone or you don't.



Yeah the whole "hate crime" designation is a bit weird. I mean it makes sense because if a gay guy is beaten to death simply because he's gay, that's like a crime against all gay people with that hateful motive behind it. Still, if you murder someone because he slept with your girlfriend and killed your mother, you kill him because you hate him so it's still a "hate crime." Things just get kind of ridiculous when say, a white person really has a bone to pick with a black person, they get into a fight, the white person wins and gets charged with a hate crime because the other guy was black, while his being black had nothing to do with the fight. This is kind of interesting because apparently the attackers, who were black, are being charged with a hate crime because the victim was white. It's usually the other way around. I guess you can't hit someone who is a different color than you.

I don't know what's worse, the fact that a transgendered girl got beaten into a seizure, or that news headlines are STILL racialized as if we were living in the 1800s where whites were supposed to be afraid of the horrible black menace, raping women and killing their slave masters.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

groph said:


> Yeah the whole "hate crime" designation is a bit weird. I mean it makes sense because if a gay guy is beaten to death simply because he's gay, that's like a crime against all gay people with that hateful motive behind it. Still, if you murder someone because he slept with your girlfriend and killed your mother, you kill him because you hate him so it's still a "hate crime." Things just get kind of ridiculous when say, a white person really has a bone to pick with a black person, they get into a fight, the white person wins and gets charged with a hate crime because the other guy was black, while his being black had nothing to do with the fight. This is kind of interesting because apparently the attackers, who were black, are being charged with a hate crime because the victim was white. It's usually the other way around. I guess you can't hit someone who is a different color than you.
> 
> I don't know what's worse, the fact that a transgendered girl got beaten into a seizure, or that news headlines are STILL racialized as if we were living in the 1800s where whites were supposed to be afraid of the horrible black menace, raping women and killing their slave masters.


 

This is another problem I have w/ hate crimes. It exacerbates other preexisting problems.


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> You know what we meant. Don't be a douche.



I don't go by what you *meant* I go by what you wrote. I get your point and I think you're wrong, the hate crime label exists for a valid reason in my opinion. Crimes specifically motivated by race/gender/ethnicity/etc *should* carry a harsher punishment.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

orb451 said:


> I don't go by what you *meant* I go by what you wrote. I get your point and I think you're wrong, the hate crime label exists for a valid reason in my opinion. Crimes specifically motivated by race/gender/ethnicity/etc *should* carry a harsher punishment.


 
To point it out is to perpetuate it; this is the way things work with human beings... 

When you create protected classes the way a hate crime does, it naturally generates a bit of resentment before an issue even arises. Moreover, this is just the leftovers of an archaic way of thinking and it's time to move the hell on.


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> To point it out is to perpetuate it and change nothing...



To point it out is to send a message to others, sitting in their parents basement, afraid of the sun, munching cheetos and hating on their gay/black/asian/whatever classmate that gives them a hard time, or looney tunes out in the woods, dressed in camo, training for the coming Race war that their shit will not be tolerated. It sends a message. Same way the death penalty isn't about rehabilitation or revenge, it's about sending a clear message.


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Now I'm confused, how is having the label "hate crime" creating resentment before it arises?


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> I find it odd that attacks of this nature are called 'hate crimes'. It's hard to believe you'd like someone and pummel them into a fucking seizure. There should be no such thing as a hate crime. You either attack or murder someone or you don't.


IMO, judging "hate crimes" differently from "normal" crimes is one of the cases of "positive discrimination". 

The comments section is one of the stupidest shit I've ever read. "i dont do black on black hate. so get over it." said OneNationLLC. "One Nation", huh.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

orb451 said:


> To point it out is to send a message to others, sitting in their parents basement, afraid of the sun, munching cheetos and hating on their gay/black/asian/whatever classmate that gives them a hard time, or looney tunes out in the woods, dressed in camo, training for the coming Race war that their shit will not be tolerated. It sends a message. Same way the death penalty isn't about rehabilitation or revenge, it's about sending a clear message.


 
Right... Because calling it a hate crime has changed EVERYTHING... All it's done is complicate things now any time there's a dispute between ppl of different races. Ppl are just looking for ways to turn a simple altercation into something more simply because they can. That to me is just as unacceptable. And I still don't see how beating up a black guy cuz he's black is any different from beating up a black guy bc you simply don't like him. Either situation has the same outcome and can be avoided in the same manner. 

For someone who sees things so black and white (no pun intended) most of the time I'm surprised you have such a bleeding heart today.

And why do I have to spell everything out for you? This is getting very annoying...

The resentment issue... It's called sour grapes. Do you read? Those outside the "protected" groups dislike the protected group bc they don't share the same privileges... Just like the fox who said the grapes were probably sour bc he couldn't reach them. Thus, by protecting certain groups under this hate crime bullshit, you make them A) look weak and B) cause other [ignorant] folks to dislike them.

Try watching something other than Fox news...


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Right... Because calling it a hate crime has changed EVERYTHING... All it's done is complicate things now any time there's a dispute between ppl of different races. Ppl are just looking for ways to turn a simple altercation into something more simply because they can. That to me is just as unacceptable. And I still don't see how beating up a black guy cuz he's black is any different from beating up a black guy bc you simply don't like him. Either situation has the same outcome and can be avoided in the same manner.
> 
> For someone who sees things so black and white (no pun intended) most of the time I'm surprised you have such a bleeding heart today.



The things you don't know about me could just about fill the Grand Canyon man, so I don't want to hear about the black/white viewpoints I have, or my bleeding heart.

Two people from various races or backgrounds getting in a fight doesn't equal a hate crime. I'm sure there's lawyers salivating at the idea, and others as well, that with enough money you can probably make a case for turning any dust-up between two people into some kind of hate crime, but I think the law has things pretty clearly broken down when it comes to this stuff. Hence, I don't think these Hate Crime charges tacked onto their crime will amount to much, but is meant to really put the screws to these people because of what they did.


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## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow man, did someone piss in your cornflakes today? Old lady not giving you any lately? I don't know what your problem is, but if you want to take this to PM and go to town, I'm game. Just shoot me a message and we can discuss whatever you want, however you want to. What's getting annoying is veiled personal attacks and passive aggressive posturing. You know damned well the mods don't play that kind of shit here, so either PM me or drop it.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

orb451 said:


> The things you don't know about me could just about fill the Grand Canyon man, so I don't want to hear about the black/white viewpoints I have, or my bleeding heart.
> 
> Two people from various races or backgrounds getting in a fight doesn't equal a hate crime. I'm sure there's lawyers salivating at the idea, and others as well, that with enough money you can probably make a case for turning any dust-up between two people into some kind of hate crime, but I think the law has things pretty clearly broken down when it comes to this stuff. Hence, I don't think these Hate Crime charges tacked onto their crime will amount to much, but is meant to really put the screws to these people because of what they did.


 
The point of the whole discussion I was having... Which you decided to drag out for 3 billion posts is that no matter what their intentions, what they did was fucked up. And if a group of white kids did that to another white just like them I'd view it the exact same way. I don't see the need to distinguish. Either way your intentions were to cause harm to another human being for a less than valid reason. 

If you need anything else spelled out go see someone else.


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

groph said:


> ...are being charged with a hate crime because the victim was white...


 
LOL dont get it wrong mate. They are being charged with a hate crime because she (it) is transgendered. Its impossible to commit a "hate crime" against a white person because we are the ones hating on everyone lol.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> LOL dont get it wrong mate. They are being charged with a hate crime because she (it) is transgendered. Its impossible to commit a "hate crime" against a white person because we are the ones hating on everyone lol.


 
And if that's the case then really the existence of hate crimes is a hate crime against white ppl, no?


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## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> LOL dont get it wrong mate. They are being charged with a hate crime because she *(it)*



Stopped reading here.


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

Well if it's a he and a she what do you call it?


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## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

The article defines HER as a SHE, therefore, SHE should be addressed in the female sense.


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## Randy (Apr 25, 2011)

*Everyone needs to calm the fuck down or I'm blanket banning everyone I disagree with.*


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

You're whatever you end up as, right?


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## possumkiller (Apr 25, 2011)

The Armada said:


> The article defines HER as a SHE, therefore, SHE should be addressed in the female presence.


 
So I guess we should address everything as journalists define them because they are the experts?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

No we should define things arbitrarily bc it makes us cool


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## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

Alright man, I see now. You're just one of those people who has to impress their opinion upon everything they say, like it means something. I'm not going to waste my time with you.  No use getting napped over something that doesn't even matter.

She is to be addressed as a female. Look at HER. The poor girl deserved none of that. I hope everything turns out okay for her. Me personally, if I worked at that McDonalds I would have done something. Cute little old lady tried to help.


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## Randy (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> So I guess we should address everything as journalists define them because they are the experts?



We're picking what the subject of the article's gender should be addressed as based on recognition of the information in the article that prompted making this thread in the first place. 

Beat that drum one more time and you get a week, buddy.


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## Randy (Apr 25, 2011)

BTW, I'm agreeing with Rich for the first time ever.


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## Karl Hungus (Apr 25, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> Its impossible to commit a "hate crime" against a white person because we are the ones hating on everyone lol.



You obviously don't understand what a hate crime is then.

As someone else said, it's terrorism. It's to send a message to other people of that group and terrorize them.

The Murder of James Byrd Jr. was a hate crime for example, because it wasn't just killing him, it was neo-nazis sending a message to black people. That's terrorism, that's a crime beyond just killing someone.

And the murders of Matthew Shepard and Sophie Lancaster were hate crimes too, they were white.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

I honestly can't see how being targeted for whatever reason makes the result of the crime any worse. It doesn't matter whether they're black, gay or transgendered, a crime still happened and they shouldn't get treated differently compared to anyone else. There's no such thing as positive discrimination. If people started ignoring all our differences and taking them as part of nature instead of basing society on them then we'd be a lot better off. The fact this whole thread has become a discussion on labels in society when someone has been beaten to fucking death says it all. We spend to much time arguing over trivial facts when at the end of the day someone is hurt. Sure, when people kill someone to send out a messege it's not nice, but should it be treated differently? No. Treating people differently based on their social/ethnic/etc background is what triggered that crime in the first place. To then do the same thing in regards to punishing hate crimes more tha regular crimes, only perpetuates the whole thing.

Also, this girl is a girl and probably would like to be referred as such. Not 'transgendered'. I wonder if that headline would've grabbed anyones attention if the transgendered part was taken out.


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> If people started ignoring all our differences and taking them as part of nature instead of basing society on them then we'd be a lot better off.


But people aren't and *THAT* is the reason that people are being targeted. They are being targeted because of whatever specific group they fall under (in this case, transgendered), they're already being singled out. Hate crime legislation, used correctly, counteracts that. It doesn't amplify it.


EDIT: Major s for you insinuating that hate crime legislation causes racism though.


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## Karl Hungus (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> To then do the same thing in regards to punishing hate crimes more tha regular crimes, only perpetuates the whole thing.


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## Soubi7string (Apr 25, 2011)

why didn't anyone say "CALL THE COPS"?
and this is a bit more different than someone ex gf, its a hate crime and should have been handled and broken up. We've had fights at T-Bell and called the cops instantly when we saw the first shove. So someone should have been on the horn and called the cops immediately.


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## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> EDIT: Major s for you insinuating that hate crime legislation causes racism though.


 



I didn't say or imply that it causes racism, but it doesn't make society equal. If you're punished more for a crime depending on who you target, that is not equality. The person who suffered as a result of that crime will have suffered regardless of what background they're from. If I murder someone, it doesn't matter if they're black or white, they're still dead. It's like positive discrimination in the work place; personally, I don't care whether you hire someone to work with me who is black, gay, transgendered or whatever, I just care about the end result: that they can do their damn job.


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## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

Soubi7string said:


> why didn't anyone say "CALL THE COPS"?



Because there's a sick little part of all of us that enjoys watching people get the crap beaten out of them. Ancient Rome, anyone?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> But people aren't and *THAT* is the reason that people are being targeted. They are being targeted because of whatever specific group they fall under (in this case, transgendered), they're already being singled out. Hate crime legislation, used correctly, counteracts that. It doesn't amplify it.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Major s for you insinuating that hate crime legislation causes racism though.


 
Not that is "causes" it. It's that it seems to exacerbate the problem by creating a "protected class" who--to those that hate said group--appear to now have an "advantage" of sorts. 

More or less it only serves to further upset those likely to commit a hate crime in the true sense of the word in the first place.

I believe this may be what Ross is saying as well.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

Sort of.


My point is that if you want to stop discrimination, you have to stop doing it yourself. Hate crime legislation is a form of discrimination, though 'positive' I don't think you can preach something taht you practice yourself. yeah, it's not nearly as bad in comparison, but if we stopped treating people based on these attributes they wouldn't be such a focal point in society and who knows in time people might come to just accept them.



Also I write fast, so lots of errors.


----------



## Randy (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> More or less it only serves to further upset those likely to commit a hate crime in the true sense of the word in the first place



"Wait, so if I beat up a black person, I'll get charged with a hate crime? FUCKIN' N***ERGS!"

That's what we call an _excuse_. It's something people who are already predisposed to being a cock-and-balls use to justify the fact they fail at life and need to blame somebody else.

Karl hit the nail on the head.


----------



## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

That it upsets those that *hate group A* to begin with is inconsequential. That's a side-effect or after-effect, the well-being of people who are wrongfully hurt, based on factors that they have little or no control over supercedes whether or not some bigots get even *more* ass-hurt that their targets are now protected, or more accurately, that their targets have *more* legal recourse in the event of an attack.

Emmett Till's murder was a fucking hate crime. He wasn't just murdered because he banged someone's wife, or stole someone's money. He was murdered by someone solely based on the color of his skin and fact that he said something that rubbed some zero the wrong way. That is the kind of crime that deserves extra special attention and extra punishment. 

For the last time, that extra punishment is not meant to sway the bigots or make them change their world views, it's meant to send a message to them and others that their acts were well "OVER" the already right/wrong line that they chose to cross. 

Why do you think murder is broken down to degrees? And other laws likewise, carry various penalties. You accuse me of being obtuse, but seriously, murder is not equal to murder, it's not just cut and dry, there are various circumstances that can make or break your chances of ever seeing daylight again, should you find yourself in that situation. So yeah, it *does* fucking matter, more than a little, who you choose to do violence upon. And yeah, it *should* matter and should serve as a deterrent to others.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

EDIT - Can't be assed.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

When described as terrorism--to me--the argument makes more sense. Perhaps it's just the difference in how ppl take hearing the word "hate crime" vs hearing the word terrorism. 

I see where you folks are coming from.


----------



## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> EDIT - Can't be assed.



I saw your original post Ross and I get what you're saying, but people are different, and you can't treat everyone equally, the hate crime laws are not meant to "level the playing field". They're meant to exact a punishment that sends a message. It's all about the message and the deterrent. They serve the greater good than whether or not they add fuel to the fire for people that already hate or could easily go down that road. 

That's an excuse, and not taking responsibility for your actions. I mean people that would let hate crime laws influence how much *more* they hate people from Group A or what have you.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 25, 2011)

Terrorism I can get behind, seeing as hate crime pretty much fits that description most of the time. What I don't agree with is if two people were killed in the exact same way but one of them was killed because he gay, I don't think the punishment should vary in that scenario. 

But that's all I'm saying now.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 25, 2011)

orb451 said:


> They're meant to exact a punishment that sends a message.


 
Sounds like a hate crime to me. 

No more righteous than the accused... 

I'm partially fucking with you...


----------



## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Sounds like a hate crime to me.
> 
> No more righteous than the accused...
> 
> I'm partially fucking with you...



And you're partially right , in that light, the death penalty is the same thing. Kill someone? Get killed as punishment. But the point that people miss about the death penalty, and hate crime laws, is to discourage (strongly) others from doing the same things. In that sense, I think they work and their value is in the deterrent.

Look at wars, murder is illegal but it's OK if it's in defense of life or country and other extenuating circumstances. My point is that it's not cut and dry. And this is from a conservative that hates *everyone* with equal fervor.  That's a joke btw.


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 25, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Terrorism I can get behind, seeing as hate crime pretty much fits that description most of the time. What I don't agree with is if two people were killed in the exact same way but one of them was killed because he gay, I don't think the punishment should vary in that scenario.
> 
> But that's all I'm saying now.


Putting it that way, we're on the exact same page.  I also think (as well as does anyone else with any sense) that if some crime is commited, that it isn't right to RETCON (I use it as retroactive confabulation ) some nonexistent motive in based solely on what different groups the individuals involved fall into as a way to add more onto a sentence. But, in cases where it can be shown that that terroristic/hate driven aspect of it was there, then hell -to-the-yeah the punishment should be more.


EDIT: And I just watched that video.  

That was fucking awful, and both of those girls deserve the most severe punishment possible.
"Self defense" does not involve continuing to come back and beat the shit out of someone who is lying on the floor in the fetal position, and running back after you're away to stomp on their head.
Fucking horrible.


----------



## JamesM (Apr 25, 2011)

I have to admit...

I lol'd when one of the attackers got her weave pulled out.


----------



## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> That was fucking awful, and both of those girls deserve the most severe punishment possible.



This. This is the EXACT reason that they are being charged with a hate crime. Think of the Hate Crime laws like an AK-47. You use the AK-47 when you absolutely, positively, have to kill every muthafucka in the room. Accept no substitutes. Hate Crime laws are reserved for those special times, when you absolutely, positively, need to drill into their thick fucking skulls, that what they did was wrong, and they gonna pay... oh yeah, they gonna pay.


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## Vidge (Apr 25, 2011)

The one thing I dislike concerning hate crime legislation, essentially a unintended consequence, is that it could be used an "attorneys tool" in the courtroom. 

"Hey your black *AND* gay, we could probably use the hate crime card to get this a guy a bigger sentence. Because who is to say that wasnt the case?" Even if that wasnt at all the reason for the assault or whatever, etc.


----------



## orb451 (Apr 25, 2011)

Vidge said:


> The one thing I dislike concerning hate crime legislation, essentially a unintended consequence, is that it could be used an "attorneys tool" in the courtroom.
> 
> "Hey your black *AND* gay, we could probably use the hate crime card to get this a guy a bigger sentence. Because who is to say that wasnt the case?" Even if that wasnt at all the reason for the assault or whatever, etc.



Who is to say? The other guys lawyer that's who. I wouldn't want to be facing the possibility of that, so if I kick the shit out of a black dude or some asian guy or whatever, after I'm done laying the beat down, I'm not leaving the scene until I've given them first aid, a flower bouquet and a hallmark card. All of which I carry around with me, for just that reason.


----------



## Meatbucket (Apr 25, 2011)

I HATE violence. I refuse to try and take part in anything violent (in real life, video game violence is COMPLETELY different, but that's another debate.) I hate fighting, hitting people and all that shit but if I were at this McDonald's, I would've beat the living shit out of these girls.

What did that woman ever do to them other than try to make her body match her mentality and emotional state? What the fuck is wrong with that? I really hope that these girls are plagued by their regrets, thoughts and actions about this for the rest of their life...even if that doesn't last very long.

Someone please give this victim a hug, some love and free medical expenses for the rest of her life.


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## Overtone (Apr 25, 2011)

That video is fucked. I think the more of this happens the more we're headed to a scene like Death Wish.


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## nostealbucket (Apr 25, 2011)

THE HISTORY OF HUMANS:

Example 1: Material Objects.
-Hey! what you got there?
-Eh.. Some shiny thing
-(*stab*) 
-Hey asshole! That was my friend you just stabbed!
-Deal with it! I got friends who are going to fight you!
-Well I got friends too! C'mon guys! Lets fight these bastards!
...

Example 2: Differences in religion.
-Hey! What's up?
-Shh! I'm making a sacrifice to (insert god name here)! 
-What the hell? Why are you doing that?
-Because its right!
- No its not!
...

Example 3: Differences in.. well.. everything else.
-Hey! Whats up!
-Nothing. AH Fuck! My ex keeps texting me. I think they're crazy.
-(exaggeration) OMG LETS START A RUMOR AND GET THEIR ASS KICKED BY A SHITLOAD OF TRACK STARS, JUST SO HE WILL FEEL INFERIOR LIKE THE PIECE OF SHIT THAT HE/SHE IS! THEN RUIN HIS LIFE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HE/SHE STILL LOVES YOU! 
-YEAH! (exaggeration) LETS START A HUGE ASS RUMOR!
...

Humans hate each other because of their tiny differences. If 80% of people would THINK...


----------



## Explorer (Apr 25, 2011)

First off, I hate violence against people less able to defend themselves, so I couldn't watch the video. All my information has come from what is posted in this thread.

----

I like the mistaken notion that defining certain crimes against a class as a hate crime had anything to do with causing those crimes to come into being. So, if gay/queer bashing wasn't a hate crime before, and suddenly it was, that new recognition of it being possibly premeditated (like neo-Nazis going after kikes or other foreigners, or the Klan going after n***ers) is less of an issue than thinking that these people wouldn't have engaged in such activities before such a classification. 

Wrong!

----

Fun fact: in the great state of Maryland, one is allowed to use as much force as necessary to protect one's life anfd health, but no farther. However, if one is trying to protect someone else, the amount of justifiable force goes up, as you are trying to protect a third party from injury and/or death. 

I don't live there now, but I've had a few situations in the DC/MD area where I've been endangered, and others where someone else was at risk. I've *never* had the police roll on me when it was a matter of protecting someone else. In fact, I've had them refuse to take my identifying information, so that they could honestly claim they didn't know who it was, and couldn't help anyone who wanted to claim that someone used too much force against them while they were going after a defenseless person. 

Incidentally, best item for self defense, or defense of others? Two rolls of dimes. Stops hostilities cold. 

Sorry, but reading this thread just reminds me of how much l hate scumbags of every kind.

Incidentally, thumbs up to whoever mentioned calling the cops first. Nothing acts as a better deterrent than taking a picture with one's cellphone, sending it off and then calling the cops, and letting the perpetrator(s) know that the police are aware... and have a few photos to boot. Who wants to commit a crime while the cops already know exactly what they look like? Who wants their picture on the evening news, along with a telephone number and a reward offer? 

The best way to win a fight, after all, is to not have to fight.....


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Apr 25, 2011)

Explorer said:


> First off, I hate violence against people less able to defend themselves, so I couldn't watch the video. All my information has come from what is posted in this thread.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...



Doesn't work so well if they jump you and take your cell phone before you have time to mms it now does it?


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## kmanick (Apr 25, 2011)

this type of attack is appalling to watch.
But has this gotten any TV time? I have only seen internet forums discussing it, not a word on any stations here in Boston.
If this happened to a black girl and everyone standing around watching and filming was white, Jesse fucking Jackson and the rest of the anti white coalition would be all over air ways.
I haven't seen a single mention of this on any TV station (cable either)


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## Cyanide_Anima (Apr 25, 2011)

This is absolutely disgusting. Ignorance and fear of what some do not understand prevails. It's just as fucked up that almost no one stepped up to protect her. Just about any two guys could have broken that fight up pretty quickly and pulled those girls outside away from the victim. People fucking suck sometimes.

RAGE.


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## Explorer (Apr 25, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> Doesn't work so well if they jump you and take your cell phone before you have time to mms it now does it?



Absolutely. When someone has attempted to jump me, it's not a matter of hesitating before headbutting them full force in the face. That's why God gave us a forehead, and strong legs to drive said forehead through someone's nose.

My point, though, is that if one is witnessing such an incident from the sidelines, and doesn't want to take part in the action, taking a quick snapshot and placing the call, while alerting them to the fact that their picture has already been taken, will often shut things down....


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## highlordmugfug (Apr 25, 2011)

Cyanide_Anima said:


> Just about any two guys could have broken that fight up pretty quickly and pulled those girls outside away from the victim.
> RAGE.


This, it pains me greatly that me or anyone else wasn't there that would have stopped it, and actually stood by her unlike the manager who kept fucking walking away and leaving her sitting there defenseless.


----------



## Guitarman700 (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> This, it pains me greatly that me or anyone else wasn't there that would have stopped it, and actually stood by her unlike the manager who kept fucking walking away and leaving her sitting there defenseless.



People love to watch this shit. They always have...


----------



## Waelstrum (Apr 25, 2011)

I didn't read every post, but I got that many people seem to dislike the hate crime laws. I've still not really made my mind up. On one hand, treating people differently due to race/sexuality/religion/whatever is wrong, and that is what these laws do, in a way. On the other hand, I think that the motivation for a crime should be taken into account when deciding on the punishment. ie Someone who shoots someone as revenge for murdering and torturing their entire family shouldn't receive the same punishment as someone who shoots someone for being black/gay/whatever minority it is they don't like.


----------



## mountainjam (Apr 25, 2011)

caparison_x said:


> So is this an accurate picture of the USA today or something that rarely happens and is an unjustified hysterical news report.


fucked up shit happens everywhere dude. not just the usa.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Apr 25, 2011)

^how did I miss that part you quoted: 

Yeah, this has nothing to do with the USA as a whole, what kind of ignorant and pointless comment is that?


----------



## mountainjam (Apr 25, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> ^how did I miss that part you quoted:
> 
> Yeah, this has nothing to do with the USA as a whole, what kind of ignorant and pointless comment is that?



it was the op. it kinda pissed me off.


----------



## caparison_x (Apr 26, 2011)

mountainjam said:


> fucked up shit happens everywhere dude. not just the usa.



OK sure but I was wondering whether this was a common occurrence or an isolated incident.



highlordmugfug said:


> ^how did I miss that part you quoted:
> 
> Yeah, this has nothing to do with the USA as a whole, what kind of ignorant and pointless comment is that?



Ignorant? Hardly.



mountainjam said:


> it was the op. it kinda pissed me off.



Grow up before I set a pack of locals on you by telling them you have a vagina and use it to make forum posts online.


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## Meatbucket (Apr 26, 2011)

Whoa there. No need to get out of hand. That's what this thread is about, to vent your anger for things getting out of hand. It's a simple misunderstanding, he thought that you were saying the whole US was like that and took offense.


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## josh pelican (Apr 26, 2011)

Leandro, I didn't know you went by Chrissy as well. 

Okay, so... everyone basically just stood back with their thumbs up their ass?

EDIT:


> The girl began twitching on the floor a few minutes after the girls left the McDonald&#8217;s.



Uh, the girl was clearly having a seizure while they were still there.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Apr 26, 2011)

caparison_x said:


> OK sure but I was wondering whether this was a common occurrence or an isolated incident.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant? Hardly.


Well, let's see, how often have you seen things about people beating transgendered people into seizures in the US? All the time? Or just this once and maybe a few other isolated incidents?

Also, how would you like it if someone posted some video of something bad happening and then asked you if your entire country was like that?

It's ignorant, and it makes you look like an idiot. As does freaking out when it's pointed out.


----------



## mountainjam (Apr 26, 2011)

caparison_x said:


> Grow up before I set a pack of locals on you by telling them you have a vagina and use it to make forum posts online.



seriously dude? 

neg'd


----------



## DVRP (Apr 26, 2011)

If this isnt a hate crime I dont know what is..


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## Winspear (Apr 26, 2011)

Watching that video made me so angry...How was everyone just standing around doing fuck all?
Thankfully she's okay.
McDonald's Beating: Transgender Girl Speaks Out On Attack | News One


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Apr 26, 2011)

As for the fucking idiots with the video camera.

Sure you might not like the girl but she's having a fucking seizure, you fool - Don't just stand there saying shit like "Ohhh shit n***** she havin' a fuckin' seizure, someone should call the police!"

FUCKIN' REALLY, BRAH!?


----------



## Curt (Apr 26, 2011)

This kind of shit is what makes me disgusted to be human. People think that just because someone is different from them, be it race, religion, sexual orientation, or what have you.. that it's perfectly fine to do things like this. I can't even think of much more to expand on this from how frustrated I am to see yet another hate-crime played out...

Hell, here in this tiny ass town I live in there was a 24 year old transgendered woman that got assaulted (did not end up with more than a couple bruises and scratches)after walking out of a local bar about 2 3/4 years ago, just for the sole fact that I live in hick-town kansas and people push the "god hates fags" thing just about as much as the WBC, and i don't know the whole story but as I was told by her friends that the people had started shit because of the fact that she was transgendered.

I can understand people NOT understanding a transgendered person, but fucking christ, at the end of the day, I don't care if you feel like you were born the wrong gender or not, you're still a human like me and that fact alone would make me indifferent to who or what you identify as.

It's not just hate-crimes either, I see something different all the time about how someone beat the shit out of this person for this reason, or this person killed that person for whatever reason....


Okay, i'm pissed and rambling, I think it's time I end this post....


----------



## jymellis (Apr 26, 2011)

problem is the world is full of too many sissies. people stand around and watch people getting the shit kicked out of them all the time, in every country. if someone would have stepped up and started flinging those bitches around it would have been over.

someone here said 2 men could have broken it up. dont know when the last time you got physical with a woman, but i think one man would have had no problem stopping it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 26, 2011)

^ Never even thought about the camera person... 

Not only did they not help, they filmed the shit... And as sad as it is, I can't say I'm completely surprised. I've seen ppl just stand by and watch a lot of things until someone ELSE decides they're going to do something. Then everyone is all "I was gonna whoop so-n-so's ass, son!"

I went to a bar once and this girl was dancing with some guy... And it looked like he tried to kiss her and she wasn't havin' it. It was funny at first. Just thought he got turned down. Then he starts tightening his arms around her waist and she's basically trying to limbo away from this dude... Then it looks like she's physically trying to push him off. No one is doing anything... 

So I stand up and begin walking over there. Now that I've made it to the guy 4 or 5 ofther ppl come scurrying from across the restaurant and it was at that point that the guy kind of realized there was a group of ppl ready to remove him and he chilled out a bit.

But it seems like a lot of ppl don't do anything bc they're scared to. Sitting there w/ a video camera delegating responsiblity doesn't really help, though. 

Also, I am by no means saying that this is, right but human beings aren't the only animals that attack their own for being "different." So again, we can't really be surprised, but it's still disappointing. If you know enough to recongize it, you know enough to know better.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 26, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> Putting it that way, we're on the exact same page.  I also think (as well as does anyone else with any sense) that if some crime is commited, that it isn't right to RETCON (I use it as retroactive confabulation ) some nonexistent motive in based solely on what different groups the individuals involved fall into as a way to add more onto a sentence. But, in cases where it can be shown that that terroristic/hate driven aspect of it was there, then hell -to-the-yeah the punishment should be more.
> 
> 
> EDIT: And I just watched that video.
> ...


 
This is also what I meant in so many words... Perhaps I'm not so great at putting those words together all the time. 

Whenever I hear the term "hate crime" now I take it to mean the same bullshit ppl always spout off to try to turn something into more than it is--like the lady who sued McDonald's for giving her hot coffee bc she couldn't keep from spilling it on herself. 

So admittedly, a lot of yesterday's confusion arose from my own biases toward the topic in general, and for that I'd like to publicly apologize to all parties involved--Orb in particular.


----------



## Randy (Apr 26, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> People love to watch this shit. They always have...



That's an amazing painting.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Apr 26, 2011)

^ One of my earlier works.


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## caparison_x (Apr 26, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> Well, let's see, how often have you seen things about people beating transgendered people into seizures in the US? All the time? Or just this once and maybe a few other isolated incidents?
> 
> Also, how would you like it if someone posted some video of something bad happening and then asked you if your entire country was like that?
> 
> It's ignorant, and it makes you look like an idiot. As does freaking out when it's pointed out.



How would I feel? I wouldn't care, thats how I'd feel. Considering in the first page some one recounted a story of child murder and that the USA has one of the highest murder rates in the western world I think it's a pretty fucking good question to ask. 



mountainjam said:


> seriously dude?
> 
> neg'd



srsly bro pos'd? you for being a transgendered forum member 

EDIT : I just checked your neg rep. I think the word you were attempting to spell is You're. Get off sevenstring and learn some English.


----------



## jymellis (Apr 26, 2011)

wow guys, wanna stop cryin?


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 26, 2011)

jymellis said:


> wow guys, wanna stop cryin?


 
No... The answer is no.  

Maybe we should just let em duke it out and rule it a mutual hate crime. SOLVED.


----------



## jymellis (Apr 26, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> No... The answer is no.
> 
> Maybe we should just let em duke it out and rule it a mutual hate crime. SOLVED.


 

i get winner


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Apr 26, 2011)

Dear, lawd. We can't even discuss something horrible OTHER people did without squabbling like idiots amongst ourselves.


----------



## jymellis (Apr 26, 2011)

i think its just people here are really opinionated and liek others to understand their views. unfortunately sometimes we go a little to far.


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## Meatbucket (Apr 26, 2011)

Back on topic: She should've killed THEM with a rock.


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## Explorer (Apr 27, 2011)

Waelstrum said:


> On one hand, treating people differently due to race/sexuality/religion/whatever is wrong, and that is what these laws do, in a way.



Actually, I don't agree with your assumption.

If a few gay guys go out and beat the shit out of heteros, calling them "breeders"... don't you think the law would call that a hate crime?

If the Klan terrorize someone, or if a group of blacks beat the shit out of someone while calling them a cracker... hate crime. 

If hatred of a particular group is a motivating factor, it's a hate crime. That protects *everyone* from such assholes, regardless of who the assholes hate. It's not a matter of different people being protected differently. They are all entitled to equal protection.

----

It's late, and I didn't immediately quote whoever told the story of walking towards the guy who was putting "pressure" on that girl, but I'll note, in line with his experience, that if I decide to intervene, that will often spark motivation in others to get involved as well. I'm not sure why that is, and I never count on others coming to my aid, but I suspect that my acting makes them aware that they can make a difference.

Hopefully that will carry forward into the next time they're in a similar situation, no?


----------



## timbaline (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm too lazy to read the rest of the tread so here's my take on it. First of all, I'm going to say I personally am a bit weirded out by trans-gendered people. That said, they're still human and should be treated as such. Those girls beating on the victim is fucked up, and what's even more annoying is that nobody really did anything to stop it. If yelling "stop" doesn't work, you have to physically restrain the attackers. Seriously, if I saw anyone beating on someone like that regardless of race, religion, transgender etc. I would personally step in and physically stop the attackers. People are fucked up.

Seriously, watch this in London 
Assholes are doing the whole innocent bystander thing "someone else will stop them" Seriously, people have to learn to take the initiative themselves. In this video, I respect the two guys who actually took the initiative in trying to stop the robbers.

People are just fucked up.


----------



## Daemoniac (Apr 27, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> This is the kind of thing that makes me want to abolish money altogether as this is prime evidence of how fucked up and greedy people can get with it. Businesses are protected by the small print and it's so fucked up that I can only bear to think about it in short bursts.
> 
> The business ethic of 'Maximum profit and zero accountability' is something that needs to be looked at quite seriously.



 I have a huge rant I'd usually go into there, but it's OT, late over here, and I cannot be fucked getting myself that worked up over something that, most likely, will not change until we degenerate back to the dark ages.


----------



## Jontain (Apr 27, 2011)

Stuff like this makes me sooo so very angry. The intolernce of those in the wrong is one thing, but not stopping it just to not get involved is one of the worst traits humanity has developed in the modern age.

Everyone is so quick to complain about anything and everything, but when they see a truly disgusting act like this they will stand around hoping that they can not get involved.

The people witnessing this should be so very fucking ashamed.


----------



## S-O (Apr 27, 2011)

jymellis said:


> im down for a good scrap. in the middle of mcdonalds? adults? naw. i would have steped in. and i dont mean stand to the side and say thats enough



This. I'm not above hittin' a bitch. I'm progressive like that, it is too misogynistic to let them do things because they have ovaries. 



The Armada said:


> I have to admit...
> 
> I lol'd when one of the attackers got her weave pulled out.



Also this.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Apr 27, 2011)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/mcdonalds/mcdonalds-employee-filmed-brutal-beating-640128


----------



## Meatbucket (Apr 27, 2011)




----------



## Overtone (Apr 27, 2011)

One thing that's really sad to think about is that something like this seems totally extreme to us, but for many people in many places in the world this kind of thing is the one thing they can count on happening. There are so many people out there who are beaten like dogs this way for no reason and nothing ever happens to change that. Many kids/wives are beaten like this all the time, and there's also laborers, minorities, dissidents, political prisoners, etc..


----------



## Waelstrum (Apr 28, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Actually, I don't agree with your assumption.
> 
> If a few gay guys go out and beat the shit out of heteros, calling them "breeders"... don't you think the law would call that a hate crime?
> 
> ...



Oh, I didn't know that's how it worked. I didn't even think that it counted as discrimination when minorities do it to the majority. (The idea of it reminds me of a time when I was a little kid when another child who was an Aborigine called me a n****r. I (being white) was confused, and I don't think he fully understood the term, as he was only a child.) The way I remember the South Park episode (my source of American Culture  ) I thought it only protected minorities. In that case I think that this seems like a fine law. I certainly believe that the motive should be a factor in sentencing. As I already stated random racist attack =/= abused wife killing her husband.



Also, on the point of the bystanders, I can't honestly say what I would have done. I'd like to think that I would heroically step in and save the day, but I could have very easily just panicked and run away, or froze in place due to shock (which I think is what happened to most people in the shop). I might have compromised and phoned the police, but that wouldn't help the girl in the short term unless I said to her assailants that I had called the police, but then I'd likely be their new target anyway. Then again, I probably wouldn't even think to call the police. I freeze up at the slightest sign of stress, so I probably wouldn't be able to produce a coherent thought such as "stop them". I haven't watched the video, because I'm extremely squeamish, but the way it's being described sounds brutal. I'm no expert, but I read that most people who are unaccustomed to such violence just freeze when faced with such an act. It sounds harsh and/or cowardly, but I'm man enough not to pretend that I would always do the bravest thing in any given hypothetical situation.


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## Randy (Apr 28, 2011)

Explorer said:


> "breeders"





I see you're familiar with the slang.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Apr 28, 2011)

Violence is wrong in general. Hate crime is bad but i'v enoticed its usually only brought up by the minorities. In this case i believe it was relevant because this transgender woman was not only a different gender but a different sexual orientation [ i think transgender is its own]

I am a biggggg Civil Rights person and i believe that these girls[ the ones who beat the poor girl senseless] deserve to be treated differently because they did not just attack someone to attack someone but they did it because she was different.

When they claimed self defense, I thought it was wrong because in no way is going backing and stomping on a girls head self defense. The people who sat watching deserve some kind of penalty do, because they did nothing but stand around and tape the goddamn thing.

Any discrimination is wrong and unjust. I've had all kinds of "different" friends and they have been tormented and the discrimination goes deeper. I would consider people being overweight in high school and middle school who are being bullyed for their weight a hate crime. 

I feel sorry for future generations because all they have from this day and age is the hatred deep within them. The minorities ar emore racist to us where i live then we are to them. Also children don't have rights here which is fucked up. There was a case of a young girl who was put into foster care along with her abusive brother who sexually harrassed her. Despite all efforts to free her from her brother the company [which i will not name for legal reasons] knew about what was going on in the homes yet they hid the case files from the family who adopted the girl. The girl went through a mental breakdown the brother was removed from the home and she was insane. After attempting to kill members of the adoptive family she was put into a psychiatric hospital. The company is still in a big lawsuit with this family because the girl is a socipathic child molester just like her brother. The girl did not have rights and it sickens me to know that this company hig the information from the family to save money and to get rid of the child.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 28, 2011)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The people who sat watching deserve some kind of penalty...


 
I agree... This is the way it's always been when I was in school. If you witness some shit like this and just stand around watching or if it even LOOKS like that's what you're doing you're now held partially accountable for the incident.


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## Faine (May 2, 2011)

seriously dude, what the fuck is wrong with people. i'm RAGING. i wouldve broken their legs if I was there... and to those pussy ass dudes not doing anything, i wouldve broken their legs too.


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## signalgrey (May 2, 2011)

Faine said:


> seriously dude, what the fuck is wrong with people. i'm RAGING. i wouldve broken their legs if I was there... and to those pussy ass dudes not doing anything, i wouldve broken their legs too.



i agree the people watching a fucking jackals, just laughing and pointing. The one person yelling "stop" is basically doing nothing. its shit like this that makes me lose any kind of faith in humanity.


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## sell2792 (May 2, 2011)

If I was in that situation, I would not have hesitated to resort to violence to get those to pieces of trash to stop attacking her. Clearly getting between them wasn't enough, so someone should have decked a bitch.


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## anarki (May 3, 2011)

The civil rights revolution in the USA had wide ranging implications for the politicians whom led the country in the wake of expanding personal freedoms the need for a new repression led to the war on drugs.

The Exile Nation Project

This video on the site is LONG but worth watching to see the relevant opinions of those affected by the fallout of civil rights and the war on drugs.

To be honest I watched the WHOLE thing and I must say alot of the "sad" stories were brought on through contravention of known laws (sure its shitty to spend 10 years in prison but then ignorance of the law is not a defence in law)

In relation to this video I think lack of repression in society leads to an emboldenment of idiots who use their new found freedom in irresponsible ways. 

The part of the video I found most interesting was how one person described the "freedom" in america to not partake in society and be homeless/jobless and die.

Enlightened thinking from the land of the free...


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## Sephiroth952 (May 4, 2011)

I don't know whats more disgusting. The women beating on that poor woman, or the employees laughing and standing aside as the crime ensues...

This actually breaks my heart.


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## jymellis (May 4, 2011)

i have been jumped several times.

i learned a few valuable lessons.

if you hit the ground, GET THE FUCK UP!

RUN

NEVER ball up/ FETAL position is a NO NO

your NOT gonna win! dont stand in one spot! back up till you see an opportunity to flee.

if you have to run over a person pick the smallest and blast him running.

try not to get surrounded!


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## Guitarman700 (May 4, 2011)

jymellis said:


> i have been jumped several times.
> 
> i learned a few valuable lessons.
> 
> ...


Jymellis presents, Urban Survival, 101.


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## jymellis (May 4, 2011)

Guitarman700 said:


> Jymellis presents, Urban Survival, 101.


 
being a "skate fag" in 1991 with a 12 inch green mohawk, moving to middle of bum fuck ohio from a "real" city meant lots of fights 

i got my ass kicked by several people at once while teachers watched, on several occasions


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## josh pelican (May 5, 2011)

This makes me think of that Seinfeld episodes where they end up in jail for not helping someone while a crime was being committed.

I mean, there's such thing as a citizen's arrest. Instead of asking those girls to leave, I would have just grabbed them by the neck, chucked them in the bathroom, and locked the doors until the police arrived.


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## vampiregenocide (May 5, 2011)

I got jumped once. Never call the guys who just mugged you cunts as they walk away.


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## josh pelican (May 5, 2011)

I remember being jumped once and I didn't hit the ground or even stumble.Five guys walked by, one guy turned around and sucker punched me in the back of the head. He said something about how he knocked me out.

The only thing that happened was my hat fell off my head.


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## Randy (May 5, 2011)

jymellis said:


> i have been jumped several times.
> 
> i learned a few valuable lessons.
> 
> ...



Jym is wise. 

Rule #1: GTFO of there as fast as possible


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## Konfyouzd (May 5, 2011)

Fetal position makes you more ball like... Humans kick balls. See: Soccer/Football (in non-'Merica countries). I could see how this would be a no no...


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## josh pelican (May 6, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Fetal position makes you more ball like... Humans kick balls. See: Junior High.



Fixed.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 7, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Fetal position makes you more ball like... Humans kick balls. See: Soccer/Football (in non-'Merica countries). I could see how this would be a no no...



And, ironically, the word "soccer" is British in origin.

Embassy of the U.S. London: Podcast Transcripts



> Soccer's etymology is not American but British. It comes from an abbreviation for Association Football, the official name of the sport (for those of you who have never heard the team "Association Football" before, it was named after the Football Association, which still governs English soccer, to differentiate itself from the other major type of football, Rugby Football, which was named after the Rugby School. FIFA, the world governing body of soccer, is French for the International Federation of Association Football F-I-F-A). For obvious reasons, in the 1880s and 1890s, English newspapers couldn't use the first three letters of Association as an abbreviation in their pages, so they took the next syllable, S-O-C. With the British penchant for adding "-er" at the end of words: punter, footballer, copper, and, of course, nicknaming rugby, "rugger," the word "soccer" was soon born, over a hundred years ago, here in England, the home of soccer. We adopted it and kept using it because we have our own indigenous sport that we call football.



Now that I've given my factoid of the day, here is my input on the issue: the Western world is increasingly becoming a society of spectators, or at least this side of it is now receiving more exposure via commercial media, Youtube, Facebook, etc.; that fact is manifest in the videos posted in this thread where people with the power to do something failed to do so. It's like people are stuck in a fucking limbo between the Hobbesian social contract and the "I only care about myself" mentality: we expect somebody to do something, but we're not willing to take that shit into our own hands.

I'm a non-violent person, so I don't quite know how I'd react in this situation. I wouldn't want to be involved but watching that video really makes my blood boil, so I can't say. Fuck, I think that even I would have the sense to call the fucking cops. You can't stay inside forever, afterall.


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## Edika (May 7, 2011)

Being in a stressful situation similar to this, when someone is attacked in front of you there is no telling what kind of reaction one might have. Seeing the video of the transgender girl being attacked I also thought why the hell didn't anybody do something? But there have been cases when people tried to help and got hurt or died. It depends on how you assert the situation at that moment. Somebody mentioned McDonalds employs helping people being attacked, then shot by vindictive friends of the attackers and not getting paid the medical bills from the company. Of course this is not always the case.

Two years ago I was in Lithuania (Vilnius) for a scientific school. One day I went to meet one of my classmates (and also friend) to go for drink. I found him eating in a park and he tells me that I just missed a fight. I ask him what happened and he told me that several cross dressers were attacked by a guy who started verbally insulting them and then kicking and punching them while they were fleeing. Then after a while a huge guy arrives, grubs the twerp and stomps him to the ground. Probably gave him a well earned concussion since the other guy was stumbling. So I ask my friend (which was doing some kind of martial arts), why didn't you go help and was just watching? He replied that he just froze. 

After one year I went back to Lithuania and stayed for a month to do some work in one of their labs. I stayed in a colleagues house (not Lithuanian) along with a Brazilian guy who was visiting for work also. So we three are in a central street around 16:00 and a one guy that seemed he hadn't eaten for a while asks on of the other two for cigarettes. He replies no and the guy suddenly goes off and starts pushing and kicking him. He had another guy with him who didn't seem much of threat. I was a bit in front and didn't see all of the incident, I heat the noise, see what's going on and didn't know how to react. I didn't honestly expect something like that happening and wasn't sure what I should. So me and the Brazilian guy take out our cell phones and tell them "Police" and they disappeared immediately.

My point is that I was no better than my friend in the first incident that I talked him down for not doing anything. But then I understood what freezing when not expecting a certain behavior means. After careful consideration what we did was a wise choice since picking a fight with suspicious characters in a foreign country that is not so big to begin with is not exactly smart thinking.

But one other time when I was in my country, an old guy (around 65-70) was sitting behind a young guy (early 20's) in the bus and was really trying to pick a fight. I don't know if the young guy started it or not or if the old guy was insulted for no apparent reason (old people in Greece sometimes do that hahaha), but the old guy was being a dick and the young guy was trying to ignore him as much as possible. I was watching the incident and I thought it was one of the most idiotic things I have ever witnessed. So as the bus reached the terminus and we get up to get off, the old guy furious grubs the young guy and starts pushing him. Of course the young guy reacted and was ready to kick his wrinkled ass. Everybody descended the bus very quickly and I was left standing there trying to understand if this was a crazy dream or reality. In seconds I snapped out of it and got between them pushing them apart. I turned to the old man which was the cause of the fight and I tell him "Are you crazy picking up fights with someone who could be your grand child? You are supposed to be the mature person here", then I turned to the young and told him "You were honestly going to fight someone that is this old? What if you killed him by mistake?" Then I waited until they descended from different doors and left.

The thing is that being a hero is nice and all but personal survival is also something to think about. If I see five guys beating up one guy and I am alone or with my wife I am sure as hell not going to run to his rescue. I'll call the cops, make some noise and shout the police is coming! Or try to get some more help from around. It all depends on the circumstances!


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## Konfyouzd (May 7, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> And, ironically, the word "soccer" is British in origin.
> 
> Embassy of the U.S. London: Podcast Transcripts
> 
> ...



I feel that for sure. However... Kicking ass to help someone truly in need. I'm not so sure I'd see that as violence in the traditional sense of the word although they're the same on the surface. If I can say this without being labeled "self righteous" I'd classify this type of violence as righteous action--a love crime, if you will. 

To those who feel you may get hurt, you're right. But hate crimes are acts of cowardice and they typically do it to folks they don't expect to fight back. Just pretending to care can help some of the time. It might not but neither does spectating.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (May 7, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> I feel that for sure. However... Kicking ass to help someone truly in need. I'm not so sure I'd see that as violence in the traditional sense of the word although they're the same on the surface. If I can say this without being labeled "self righteous" I'd classify this type of violence as righteous action--a love crime, if you will.
> 
> To those who feel you may get hurt, you're right. But hate crimes are acts of cowardice and they typically do it to folks they don't expect to fight back. Just pretending to care can help some of the time. It might not but neither does spectating.



What? No, I don't think kicking ass to defend someone is violence at all.  The violence I speak of is the aggressive bullshit these girls in that McDonalds were pulling. I personally wouldn't engage in that kind of behavior, and I would go so far as to say that I distance myself from people that I feel would do that sort of thing. I could not predict my reaction to the situation of being in the presence of that kind of violence, as I don't have exposure to it and don't really seek it out. A part of me says, "Break their fucking legs!", but another part says, "Dude, you don't know what's going to happen if you get involved in this." A conundrum, you see.


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## Whiskey_Funeral (May 7, 2011)

I would have beat all three of those worthless human beings down, female or not. Disgusting.


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## sell2792 (May 11, 2011)

Their are no rules to fighting, let alone being jumped. Escape if possible, or terminate with extreme prejudice if your capable of it.


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## ghostred7 (May 11, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I like the mistaken notion that defining certain crimes against a class as a hate crime had anything to do with causing those crimes to come into being. So, if gay/queer bashing wasn't a hate crime before, and suddenly it was, that new recognition of it being possibly premeditated (like neo-Nazis going after kikes or other foreigners, or the Klan going after n***ers) is less of an issue than thinking that these people wouldn't have engaged in such activities before such a classification.
> 
> Wrong!


I agree with this.

Ironically, simple things are taken to extremes. If I wasn't a laid back guy, I'd probably be going nuclear right now as a Jew b/c you spelled out kike but censored n***ers. Why is one slang term for an ethnic group demanding more censorship than another?

Now, I'm not doing this to "call you out" as I'm sure you meant nothing by it; just using it as example b/c it was there. This delineation is how a lot of the hate-crime laws came into being. Minorities of differences not getting equal treatment. I do think it has become too much of a blanket judiciary thing though. Lawyers will try their damndest as prosecutors to use the "hate-crime card" when they can. 

Minorities getting killed/harassed/etc solely based on ethnicity/religion existed LONG before the written laws (uh...Hebrew slaves to Egypt, the Crusades, etc). People have always sought out self-empowerment by persecuting others that are different....be it for expanding domain/legion or to give themselves a pat on the back. Hate-crime law is supposed to levy harsher punishment towards those that commit the said crime solely for that reason and to serve as a deterrent...I think it's an abused law or they need to prove that was the motivation behind the crime. I don't think a black & white dude that happens to get into a scuffle over money, drugs, women, stolen goods, etc should have hate-crime associated with it. Only if it was because "i hate n******/cr*ck***" should the law be invoked.

The reason the girls are saying the "was going to try & rape me" is b/c they're listening to their defense attourney. The problem is, in nearly all of the states, even IF that was the case, they have to prove self-defense. Then it's met with the stricter perspective of only using the necessary force to deter the said threat.....clearly this is not the case. I hope these girls get the maximum penalty possible, they deserve nothing less.


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## VinnyLemieux (May 11, 2011)

Isnt it Turkey(the country) where they do to you what you did to someone else?? those fucking bitches should have the shit be beaten out of them till they have a seizure!!!OMG so pissed right now!!


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