# When bands sound like Meshuggah...



## Meshuggah89 (Mar 20, 2010)

Is there such a thing a sounding too much like Meshuggah? i often find that whenever a band is even remotely touching upon what Meshuggah has accomplished sound-wise i flip my shit. Cause hardly anyone does it. I just think about the maybe ten bands i know using 8 strings and how much of a niche sound it seems to be in the metal world. when you have bands coming out that generalize their songs with breakdowns and blast beat parts in what seems like the "formula" of choice today, it gets old fast. even when bands take the meshuggah sound and use it to develop their own interpretation of what is actually is, it's still 99% more untapped of a sound then everything else coming out. i play 8s because of meshuggah, and i think if you play 8s, chances are your going to sound a little bit like meshuggah even though you might not be trying to. just like how when chuck berry started playing the shit he played and revolutionized rock n roll, im sure anyone who came out after him faced some sort of criticism for jerking off his sound. their are imitators, and their are others who want to take a sound and develop it even further, but have to understand and utilize a sound to make something new from it. i just think the 8 string is still to young to completely avoid it. maybe i just love meshuggah too much, and maybe none of this makes sense to anyone else. i'm just curious how other 8 string players think about it. is sounding too much like meshuggah a bad thing? am i retarded? someone fill me in.


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## Dethfield (Mar 20, 2010)

Meshuggah89 said:


> i play 8s because of meshuggah, and i think if you play 8s, chances are your going to sound a little bit like meshuggah even though you might not be trying to.



I do not agree. I play 8's and dont write songs that are quite different from their stuff. Most of what i play is judas priest/iron maiden stuff with the added range of the ERG. Im not really into that whole death metal/hardcore/black metal/obnoxious growl type metal. (i dont know much about the different genres of todays metal, they all sound the same to me).


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## Metal Ken (Mar 20, 2010)

I cant stand bands that sound like meshuggah/bulb/djent stuff at all. When i hear someone's clips and then djent starts, I turn that shit off prompt. 

And to say people play 8's cause of meshuggah.... Charlie Hunter?


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## t3sser4ct (Mar 20, 2010)

Meshuggah created a sub-genre of metal, in my opinion. It's a pretty unique sub-genre, though, so it's pretty easy to be labeled as a blatant ripoff of Meshuggah if you follow them into that particular area. Maybe it's justified, maybe it isn't. A couple of bands come really close to sounding like Meshuggah imitators, like Four Question Marks, but take a few of the projects here on SS.org (the ones classified as "djent") as well as bands like TesseracT; they borrow heavily from Meshuggah and retain many similarities-- especially when utilizing 8-string guitars-- but are often distinct enough that I would have a hard time accusing them of sounding _too much_ like Meshuggah. Of course, some people disagree... ^^

That said, I think it is definitely possible to sound too much like Meshuggah, or any other band for that matter. If you are purposefully trying to sound exactly like another band or musician, then you have the wrong idea about music as far as I'm concerned.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 20, 2010)

IMO Meshuggah is still different than any other band that plays 8s. If a "djent" song starts playing randomly form my computer, i would never mistake it for a meshuggah tune.

They are in their own world, while the artists they inspired make "djent", which i in fact love.


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## Chonker (Mar 20, 2010)

The more forms of metal the better, if something has been inspired by meshuggah and sounds similar then that's fine by me, more music i like to listen to!


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 20, 2010)

Meshuggah are just doing for music what Korn did for nu metal, and Nirvana did for grunge. Creating a unique sound that inspires lots of people, who in turn infuse it with their own styles creating something more different. Its possible to sound like the band that style originally came from, but Meshuggah are so unique its hard to replicate exactly what they have.

I don't complain about djent/chug music, I love it so the more the merrier. I think its a brave, interesting new genre.


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## Origin (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm actually getting pretty tired of the 'saying djent all the time' trend, they mirror /b/-tards to me, and I HATE those stupid parrot-y fuckers.

I used to like the tone but now I'm always reminded of joiners and I get pissed off >_< still love Meshuggah though of course haha.


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## Rational Gaze (Mar 20, 2010)

I think one of the most startling things is that even a niche subgenre like "djent" has become extremely formulaic and predictable, and that's sad. When bands like Textures and Sybreed came out, I was like "fuck yeah, more 8-stringers", but then the sound quickly became extremely diluted. 

Right now it's brootalz on the low string with some mid-range notes every now and then, a singer that screams, but can also sing a high range, the DFHS drum production, a clean guitar playing underneath a solo (whilst the clean tone is nearly identical from one band to the next-shimmery, bright tone), etc. I'm excited for Tesseract because they took the sound but are doing something much more sophisticated with it. If Meshuggah is Korn in nu metal, Tesseract sound like its Deftones. More aural, ambient stuff and less predictable structure/production.

I just think it's time for people to take this sound in new directions. Yes, it has now been accepted that all of these dudes can play odd time riffs over a 4/4 pattern. Now do something cool to it, evolve the sound.

I still haven't heard a band that accurately emulates Meshuggah by the way. Not one. It's a sound that simply cannot be duplicated.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 20, 2010)

^Exactly.

i also think "Djent" is an extension of "hardcore" music more than meshuggah. Its odd time signatures and screams of hardcore mixed with the Boutique gear and gated staccatoness of Djent,


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## Meshuggah89 (Mar 20, 2010)

Have any of you heard of Uneven Structure? Uneven Structure - EP OUT NOW! on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

I think if any one band gets meshuggah, it's them. It's an interesting EP. set up similar to catch 33 with the song pieces that build off of each other. i think it's more interesting that for their debut album they're going back to 7s to get away from the chuggy "djent"ness. though they're way more processed then meshuggah, and the vocals couldn't be more washed out and low in the mix, what Uneven Structure is doing i find intriguing.


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## Rational Gaze (Mar 20, 2010)

Meshuggah89 said:


> Have any of you heard of Uneven Structure? Uneven Structure - EP OUT NOW! on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads
> 
> I think if any one band gets meshuggah, it's them. It's an interesting EP. set up similar to catch 33 with the song pieces that build off of each other. i think it's more interesting that for their debut album they're going back to 7s to get away from the chuggy "djent"ness. though they're way more processed then meshuggah, and the vocals couldn't be more washed out and low in the mix, what Uneven Structure is doing i find intriguing.



See this to me sounded like a "try hard" Meshuggah clone. I can understand the sentiment but it even sounds like Catch 33. Out of all those songs, Egocentric Focus was probably my favorite, but it didn't really do anything other that reinforce the point of this whole thread. Still the shimmering clean guitars, the riding on the lowest string. I'm not saying this stuff sucks, that's far from true. It's the saturation. Also, you're right, the production is waaay too processed. I think they were trying to get the guy to sound like Jens, so they hid him nice and center.


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## Malacoda (Mar 20, 2010)

Metal Ken said:


> I cant stand bands that sound like meshuggah/bulb/djent stuff at all. When i hear someone's clips and then djent starts, I turn that shit off prompt.
> 
> And to say people play 8's cause of meshuggah.... Charlie Hunter?




Well, I agree with you, but I think that it's kind of a different concept... Hunter played an 8 so he could emulate a bass on a guitar. I think Tosin Abasi is a better example - he plays a standard 8-string, much like the ones Meshuggah uses, yet he gets a completely un-Meshuggan sound (most of the time).


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## Metal Ken (Mar 20, 2010)

Malacoda said:


> Well, I agree with you, but I think that it's kind of a different concept... Hunter played an 8 so he could emulate a bass on a guitar. I think Tosin Abasi is a better example - he plays a standard 8-string, much like the ones Meshuggah uses, yet he gets a completely un-Meshuggan sound (most of the time).



I was using a video of Hunter's specifically for the contrast. I guess a better example i could have used was Divine Heresy, but whatever


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## swayman (Mar 21, 2010)

Meshuggah89 said:


> Is there such a thing a sounding too much like Meshuggah? i often find that whenever a band is even remotely touching upon what Meshuggah has accomplished sound-wise i flip my shit. Cause hardly anyone does it. I just think about the maybe ten bands i know using 8 strings and how much of a niche sound it seems to be in the metal world. when you have bands coming out that generalize their songs with breakdowns and blast beat parts in what seems like the "formula" of choice today, it gets old fast. even when bands take the meshuggah sound and use it to develop their own interpretation of what is actually is, it's still 99% more untapped of a sound then everything else coming out. i play 8s because of meshuggah, and i think if you play 8s, chances are your going to sound a little bit like meshuggah even though you might not be trying to. just like how when chuck berry started playing the shit he played and revolutionized rock n roll, im sure anyone who came out after him faced some sort of criticism for jerking off his sound. their are imitators, and their are others who want to take a sound and develop it even further, but have to understand and utilize a sound to make something new from it. i just think the 8 string is still to young to completely avoid it. maybe i just love meshuggah too much, and maybe none of this makes sense to anyone else. i'm just curious how other 8 string players think about it. is sounding too much like meshuggah a bad thing? am i retarded? someone fill me in.



We'd have to be completely bonkers to think that a great number (not all) of people who own modern 8 string guitars are not at least in some way fans of Meshuggah. I won't get into all the bands that BLATANTLY rip off Meshuggah but maintain they don't.

I personally don't see anything wrong with playing whatever music that makes you happy. Anybody who has a problem with that is somebody you probably shouldn't concern yourself with. 



Metal Ken said:


> I cant stand bands that sound like meshuggah/bulb/djent stuff at all. When i hear someone's clips and then djent starts, I turn that shit off prompt.
> 
> And to say people play 8's cause of meshuggah.... Charlie Hunter?




There's nothing wrong with not liking music, but I find the idea of switching something off just because it falls into a particular genre stupid.

I'm not sure if a lot of people buying Ibanez/Schecter/Agile/ESP 8 strings do it because they want to sound like Charlie Hunter, or have even heard of him, bad example.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 21, 2010)

Malacoda said:


> Well, I agree with you, but I think that it's kind of a different concept... Hunter played an 8 so he could emulate a bass on a guitar. I think Tosin Abasi is a better example - he plays a standard 8-string, much like the ones Meshuggah uses, yet he gets a completely un-Meshuggan sound (most of the time).


 
Tosin uses an 8 for the same reason doesn't he? Tunes with a low E so he has the ability to run the bass range over chords, and play in octaves. He utilizes it for a lot of jazz stuff. 

I think its hard to label some bands as djent because they obviously show influence but take it closer to something else. Like AAL, who are no way Meshuggah clones, and more progressive fusion sorta stuff than straight djent.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Mar 21, 2010)

I play an 8 string and I dont sound like Meshuggah 

Yes, I did learn a bunch of Meshuggah. You just have to when you get an 8 string 

Ijust think that with that low string, you cant help from sounding like Meshuggah sometimes due to the face that you have that low F that Meshuggah popularized.


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## freepower (Mar 21, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> IMO Meshuggah is still different than any other band that plays 8s. If a "djent" song starts playing randomly form my computer, i would never mistake it for a meshuggah tune.
> 
> They are in their own world, while the artists they inspired make "djent", which i in fact love.



+1

I have to say that there's some very derivative music out there - but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, I mean, look at "Death" metal. Give the genre some time to mature. If anything, I think the main problem with the genre is that it tends to be one-man 8-string-guitar projects - a few other influences coming in on the other instruments would change things up a lot.

And as for 8s being for Mesh-heads... 

Funnily enough, I've always just wanted that extra low end. When I played 6 my favourite bands were Muse, Korn, Fear Factory and the Deftones (who all played 7s, if not necessarily exclusively) - a few years ago I got really into Meshuggah, and Korn, Dino and the Deftones have all gone 8.

But my wanting to go 8 was basically because I could actually afford one now with Agile and now the reasonable production 8s. It was only after it was ordered I realised how much music I listen to has 8s on it.


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## possumkiller (Mar 21, 2010)

I sold my 8 strings because whenever I played them it always sounded Meshuggah-ish. Or when I would try to play like I normally do in the lower register of the 8 it just sounded like fart noises. I think a 7 is enough for me.

EDIT: BTW THIS GUY<<<<<<<<<<< sounds not at all like Meshuggah on his 8 string.


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## glassmoon0fo (Mar 21, 2010)

in answer to the op, you cant possibly sound too much like meshuggah because no one else has jens kidman as a singer  my balls are scared of that guy.


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## Deadseen (Mar 21, 2010)

What about Ihshan, he uses 8-strings right?


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## Origin (Mar 21, 2010)

Props to possum for the Ihsahn nod


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## scottro202 (Mar 21, 2010)

Isn't saying everybody who uses an 8 string sounds like Meshuggah is KINDA like saying everybody that uses a 7-string tuned to Drop/Standard A sounds like Korn?


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## simonXsludge (Mar 21, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> They are in their own world, while the artists they inspired make "djent", which i in fact love.


if you put it that way i'd say i love meshuggah and don't like most of the "djent"-bands.


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## Malacoda (Mar 21, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Tosin uses an 8 for the same reason doesn't he? Tunes with a low E so he has the ability to run the bass range over chords, and play in octaves. He utilizes it for a lot of jazz stuff.
> 
> I think its hard to label some bands as djent because they obviously show influence but take it closer to something else. Like AAL, who are no way Meshuggah clones, and more progressive fusion sorta stuff than straight djent.



Well, yeah, it's similar, but Hunter was specifically doing it so he could play the equivalent of a bass and a guitar at the same time whereas Tosin just wants more range.


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## Richardscuro (Mar 21, 2010)

I don't think there is anything wrong with people being able to identify who you have been influenced by from your music as long as you're bringing something interesting to the table. All musicians are thieves.


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## Demiurge (Mar 21, 2010)

People are more than welcome to wear their influences, and it was only a matter of time before Meshuggah was going to influence people.

I would be more impressed though if more people blatantly copping Meshuggah cared to look into their back catalog a little bit more. It sounds like some people picked up Catch 33 and was like, "I'm going to sound like _this_ now!" and their music is all BONG-BONG-BINGBONG-DJENT-DJENT-DJENT without any of the melody and truer rhythmic mixups of their prior stuff.


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## leonardo7 (Mar 21, 2010)

I hear guitar riffs once in a while that have a similar technique or style being used that reminds me of Meshuggah but I have yet to hear a band that straight up sounds like Meshuggah all around.


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## BEYOND (Mar 21, 2010)

Metal Ken said:


> I cant stand bands that sound like meshuggah/bulb/djent stuff at all. When i hear someone's clips and then djent starts, I turn that shit off prompt. And to say people play 8's cause of meshuggah.... Charlie Hunter?


 I'm pretty sure no one in metal uses an 8 because of Hunter. Everyone uses one now because of meshuggah. Same reason people were using 7's in the 90's because of Korn.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 21, 2010)

freepower said:


> Funnily enough, I've always just wanted that extra low end. When I played 6 my favourite bands were Muse, Korn, Fear Factory and the Deftones (who all played 7s, if not necessarily exclusively) - a few years ago I got really into Meshuggah, and Korn, Dino and the Deftones have all gone 8.
> 
> But my wanting to go 8 was basically because I could actually afford one now with Agile and now the reasonable production 8s. It was only after it was ordered I realised how much music I listen to has 8s on it.



I am the hugest Matt bellamy fanboi, and i can tell you they use a low B on ONE song, Citizen Erased. He ha sa Manson jazz 7 modified with a brige pickup tuned to Drop A just for that one song.

Live after some heavier songs Matt and chris will drop their E/D strings to B and thrash around for a bit, but they don't actually have any songs in standard 7 tuning.

/total tangent.


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## Rick (Mar 21, 2010)

BEYOND said:


> Everyone uses one now because of meshuggah.



I don't think everyone does.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 21, 2010)

Rick said:


> I don't think everyone does.



i gotta say my 8 string was a result of Tosin and Pual. If i wanted to play meshuggah, i would tune my 6 to F.


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## freepower (Mar 21, 2010)

I play 8 because of my own musical wants and needs, it's not "because" of anything or anyone else. I've been programming syths using 8 string ranges since before I'd even heard of Meshuggah.



> I am the hugest Matt bellamy fanboi, and i can tell you they use a low B on ONE song, Citizen Erased. He ha sa Manson jazz 7 modified with a brige pickup tuned to Drop A just for that one song.



I probably used to be the biggest Muse fanboy out there, I still have everything they've done (including balloonatic) up to Absolution. And Citizen Erased is AADDGBE. 

I used to play it on a detuned 6 string, back when having a 7, let alone an 8, was a financial impossibility.


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## troyguitar (Mar 21, 2010)

Meshuggah89 said:


> maybe i just love meshuggah too much





Also, not everyone is here because of some love of super low br00tal shugging. I play 7,8,9 string guitars and never ever listen to Korn or Meshuggah, can't stand them at all (or many of the other bands worshiped on here). 99% of the time I only play in the range of a 6-string in E standard, I just like having the extra strings so I can have more range in any given position.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 21, 2010)

Even putting meshuggah aside I started on bass so when I went to guitar I missed having those low notes and my desire for something completely different as far a guitar playing goes led to my fifths tuning ideas. Then I ended up hearing Meshuggah and had to have a low F, but when I play I tend to draw more from my other influences (death, thrash, jazz/fusion, atonal classical, drone, among others). I don't just play weird one note grooves all the time.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Mar 21, 2010)

Rick said:


> I don't think everyone does.



Yeah I plan to go erg mainly because of people flaunting them on this forum / loving what they'll allow me to do.

I don't even listen to meshuggah or anything like meshuggah.

I've also only come across a few bands that actually sound anything like meshuggah. People act like every tom dick and harry is copying meshuggah and bulb these days when I almost never hear the resemblance aside from maybe guitar tone.


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## iondestroyer1527 (Mar 22, 2010)

i played an 8 before i even heard meshuggah...though i do love them now that i own 4 of their cd's i still don't rip them off in any way. i play death metal and mainly use the 8 to accent things by sometimes grabbing the octave of the route note i might be riffing at the time.this sort of assumtion (sounding like mesh if you use an 8) is pretty narrow minded. does joe satriani sound like conway twitty because they both play a six?


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## angryman (Mar 22, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> ^Exactly.
> 
> i also think "Djent" is an extension of "hardcore" music more than meshuggah. Its odd time signatures and screams of hardcore mixed with the Boutique gear and gated staccatoness of Djent,


 
I completely agree with this fella.....it seema alot of bands have taken the Meshuggah blueprint & added their own twist to it....exactly the same thing happened with the whole Hardcore/Metalcore malarky!

Music evolves.....thats what keeps it exciting!


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## signalgrey (Mar 22, 2010)

i got into lower tunings just kinda by accident cause i like the tone of them.
so i got a baritone. then i kinda missed have the higher register as accessible.

so i got a 7 string.

I play most ambient stuff, i just like have a very wide range to play with. I got into meshuggah only slightly, when my band mates mentioned them AFTER i mentioned my interest in 8 strings.


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## Louis Cypher (Mar 22, 2010)

Just think whether you did or didn't pick up an 8 string coz of meshuggah your always gonna get people say you did coz they are the best know musicians out there playing 8 strings, same way in the 90's you said you played a 7 string "your ohh your only playing them coz of Korn!" I have loved Meshuggah since Destroy Erase Improve but I ain;t rushed out and got an 8 string.... 

As another post said think alot has to be said for manufactures like Agile making affordable 8 strings available to the market and companies like Schecter and Ibanez with the RGA8 for adding to the growing popularity of ERG... And all power to them!!! Either way a larger and more affordable choice is great news for us the guitar buying public!! WIN WIN!


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## meisterjager (Mar 22, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Meshuggah are just doing for music what Korn did for nu metal, and Nirvana did for grunge. Creating a unique sound that inspires lots of people, who in turn infuse it with their own styles creating something more different. Its possible to sound like the band that style originally came from, but Meshuggah are so unique its hard to replicate exactly what they have.
> 
> I don't complain about djent/chug music, I love it so the more the merrier. I think its a brave, interesting new genre.


 
Deja Vu.

Honestly, have you said this before?


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## steffgang (Mar 22, 2010)

I think that the whole 8 string thing we enjoy now is due to Meshuggah no matter we like it or not. About the bands influenced by Meshuggah.. I think it is not just a good thing but it is something absolutely necessary to be aware that music creativity is not just in harmonies and scales and all that stuff we already have since the baroque. What is happening here mainly because of Meshuggah, Planet X, modern jazz etc is a real revolution - people are becoming aware of the significance of the rhythmic stuff and dwelling into rhythmic complexities.. I find it very boring to listen to a "modern" music that consist of a permanent count to four without even some tasty syncopation incorporated - even the modern dance music evolves in this direction. The 8 strings are not directly connected with that stuff but Meshuggah proofed that those low notes can be used very successfully for that complex rhythm oriented stuff. Just to point out that I am a bit under influence right now as I just watched the ALIVE DVD last night and am still blown out by the impeccable and energy-full performance but most of all the attitude of the guys. Seriously those guys are out there for 20 years now giving us a music so ahead of the time that honestly the regular music listener cannot stand it. I am very glad that Meshuggah are finally becoming famous and are respected the way they should be.. Seriously think about that - in 95 they were opening for Machine Head wtf?! Right after the release of Destroy Erase Improve?! 
Sorry I turned my post to a "Meshuggah is the best" yell but as I said I am under the influence  I can't believe that stuff was played live that well


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 22, 2010)

meisterjager said:


> Deja Vu.
> 
> Honestly, have you said this before?


 
Probably dude, then again, theres been a lot of threads like this. 


At the end of the day, music evolves, bands inspire other bands. If you think thats wrong, then 99% of music is wrong. Meshuggah brought 8 strings to the masses, which has in turn led to a variety of genres incorporating that low bass range into their music, whether it be metalcore, industrial or jazz. Its the natural progression of how things have always been, you just have to accept it.


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## sol niger 333 (Mar 22, 2010)

The only thing I don't like is when it doesn't get mutated into something fresh or if the band lacks songwriting direction. It's especially bad with screaming vocals because most of the time they lack the severe conviction that Meshuggah have with the distorted vocal. The desire to scream shouldn't be a conscious choice it should be driven by the lyrics/music and most of the time people just do it because they are supposed to or because Meshuggah do. It sounds instantly amateur and bordering on stupid most of the time.


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## yetti (Mar 22, 2010)

We can't leave Robert Conti out of this thread.


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## jakeofthumbs (Mar 22, 2010)

Our sound has been classed as similar to Meshuggah (more Destroy Erase Improve era though) although I'd like to think we don't go to the point of ripping them off. With the next album moving to 7's in drop A though, it's pretty easy to any low riff with a polyrhythm to end up sounding like a total rip off. 

HOUSE OF THUMBS - On iTunes on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads for anyone interested!


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## Rick (Mar 22, 2010)

That's the problem, if you play a low riff in some sort of polyrhythm, you're labeled as a Meshuggah wannabe.


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## jakeofthumbs (Mar 22, 2010)

Rick said:


> That's the problem, if you play a low riff in some sort of polyrhythm, you're labeled as a Meshuggah wannabe.



Makes it easy to scrap material though! Went from 10 almost finished songs, to three in one night!

"What about this one?"

"Nope, too Meshuggah."

"...goddamn."


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## Rick (Mar 22, 2010)

Yeah, exactly. I'm afraid to write something with even a little polyrhythm in it because someone's bound to say, "Oh, you're ripping off Meshuggah!" Which is funny because I'm not THAT big of a fan of them to begin with.


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## jakeofthumbs (Mar 22, 2010)

Rick said:


> Yeah, exactly. I'm afraid to write something with even a little polyrhythm in it because someone's bound to say, "Oh, you're ripping off Meshuggah!" Which is funny because I'm not THAT big of a fan of them to begin with.



Eh, you can't win either way. Add prog over the top of a polyrhythm and you're ripping off Dream Theater.. As long as you don't write 4 minute songs consisting of a single breakdown, you should be fine!


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## Rick (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm not much of a breakdown writer and there will be no bass drops in my material either.


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## guitarplayerone (Mar 23, 2010)

Deadseen said:


> What about Ihshan, he uses 8-strings right?



and even he fell victim to the urge for djent on "barren lands"


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 23, 2010)

Meshuggah89 said:


> Is there such a thing a sounding too much like Meshuggah?



Yes. After The Burial anyone?



Meshuggah89 said:


> if you play 8s, chances are your going to sound a little bit like meshuggah even though you might not be trying to.



Truth. It's inescapable unless you're playing on the clean channel, or not using the low F#.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Yes. After The Burial anyone?


 
I don't think they're the most Meshuggah sounding band out there.  They play a lot of muted off beat stuff, which is common in metalcore/deathcore etc it just so happens they play it on the F string so it gets that trademarked Meshuggah sound. But a lot of their riffs, such as the beginning to Bezerker, are straight shred metalcore stuff that breaks it up.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 23, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't think they're the most Meshuggah sounding band out there.  They play a lot of muted off beat stuff, which is common in metalcore/deathcore etc it just so happens they play it on the F string so it gets that trademarked Meshuggah sound. But a lot of their riffs, such as the beginning to Bezerker, are straight shred metalcore stuff that breaks it up.



I can't think of a band that sounds more like Meshuggah. When half of your music consists of Meshuggah style grooves in F standard, it's inevitable that you will sound a lot like Meshuggah.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I can't think of a band that sounds more like Meshuggah. When half of your music consists of Meshuggah style grooves in F standard, it's inevitable that you will sound a lot like Meshuggah.


 
Dunno man, I think they've done their own thing.

Besides, wait till you hear my band.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 23, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Dunno man, I think they've done their own thing.
> 
> Besides, wait till you hear my band.



If by "their own thing" you mean "their own thing plus Meshuggah's own thing", then I agree completely!


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> If by "their own thing" you mean "their own thing plus Meshuggah's own thing", then I agree completely!


 
Oh yeah I mean they are definitely influenced by them, and they definitely sound like them at times but they make their own sound with it. I think so anyway.


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## Jay Jay (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> If by "their own thing" you mean "their own thing plus Meshuggah's own thing", then I agree completely!



Come on man, are you serious?

So they like 8 strings. So they like chugging on that low F. Doesn't mean that they want to be Meshuggah. Remember when they only had 7 strings and their lowest note was Bb?

It's fine if you don't like the band, but don't discredit them just because they're influenced by a band that you hold in high regard.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 23, 2010)

Jay Jay said:


> Come on man, are you serious?
> 
> So they like 8 strings. So they like chugging on that low F. Doesn't mean that they want to be Meshuggah. Remember when they only had 7 strings and their lowest note was Bb?
> 
> It's fine if you don't like the band, but don't discredit them just because they're influenced by a band that you hold in high regard.



Just like Meshuggah used to only have 7 strings tuned to Bb? 

I do like the band, in fact I've got Rareform, but they borrow heavily from Meshuggah - this is a fact.


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## Cynic (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I can't think of a band that sounds more like Meshuggah. When half of your music consists of Meshuggah style grooves in F standard, it's inevitable that you will sound a lot like Meshuggah.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 23, 2010)

Cynic said:


>




These guys sound more Fell Silent than Meshuggah influenced, even though Fell Silent are Meshuggah influenced themselves.

I'm not bagging on ATB at all, just stating what anyone who listens to the two bands should already know.


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## Raoul Duke (Mar 23, 2010)

These days as soon as you hit a Low F (or anything lower) on your guitar people are going to go "Meshuggah!". 

They were one of the first (if not the first) band to start using 8 strings and tuning that low, so it immediately gets the Meshuggah tag. 

The way I explain it to people is, the whole low tuned and rhythmical style that is Meshuggah is like a surfing a wave  
They were the first people to surf the wave, showed everyone where it is and they surf it better than anyone else

After being showed this wave, other people attempted to surf it. Some people try to follow the exact same line that Meshuggah did but cant do it as well and end up sounding like an inferior copy in every way.

Then you have people that surf the wave but try to use Meshuggah's line as a guide only and will try to branch off and experiment with different lines. They will surf some new ground but in trying to do so will end up crossing Meshuggahs path more than once

Then the final section and I don't even know if this exists yet honestly - This would be people that find the wave but break in the totally opposite direction, start surfing there own lines on the same wave and carve out something new and original

I think for people to immediately dismiss any low tuned and rhythmically orientated metal as a Meshuggah rip off is a little bit ignorant though. 

Just think back to the days of when the harpsichord and piano where first invented. At the start there would've been a few composers to write exclusively for these instruments. Then after awhile a few people would hear the music and begin to write similar music but adding there own input. If people back then ignored this music saying "Oh it just sounds like such and such a composer..." then we wouldnt have all the diverse styles of music that we have today.

Copying? Maybe but every type of music that is around today burrows from something that has gone before it. 

I think ultimately it all depends on how much of your own flavour you add to the equation and how much of an open mind you keep as a listener 

End rant


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## Bloody_Inferno (Mar 23, 2010)

Agreed with Raoul Duke. 

Nothing much has changed throughout time, trends come and go. Nothing is new under the sun. Innovation feeds in itself, it's the nature of the beast. 

It's the same when every guitarist sounded like Van Halen when all the superstrats came out. Same as all the grungies who thought Cobain was their saviour modelled their sound after him - much like all the punk bands who wanted to be Sid Vicious over a decade before. And same as when every band influenced by Korn and Limp Bizkit grabbed a 7 string and sounded exactly like their inspirations.... all of that has already been said numerous times, even in this very thread: . 

But it's also the attention span of the masses, it's not much. And it's also human nature to label groups. It's ignorant, but it's also a notion that we humans have to accept, deal with and move on. 

Really, all artists/musicians should just focus on doing your own thing. And if you're doing your own thing, the human nature of your audience will notice for the better.


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## Andii (Mar 23, 2010)

Saying After the Burial sounds like Meshuggah is the most absurd thing in this thread. The two bands are polar opposites. They use 8 string guitars and the similarities end there. ATB is metalcore and Meshuggah is Meshuggah. Saying two bands are similar because the timbre of their instruments is similar is asinine. 

The truth is there is no band I've heard that sounds like Meshuggah whatsoever. There are bands that attempt to, but simply don't(like the one posted in this thread).

There are also bands that draw an influence from Meshuggah, but do not copy or attempt to copy any of their sound.... they are simply inspiration to do something new. That is influence in it's best form and use.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 23, 2010)

Andii said:


> Saying After the Burial sounds like Meshuggah is the most absurd thing in this thread. The two bands are polar opposites. They use 8 string guitars and the similarities end there. ATB is metalcore and Meshuggah is Meshuggah. Saying two bands are similar because the timbre of their instruments is similar is asinine.


 
Oh I don't know, they definitely sound like Meshuggah at parts but as said, I think thats down to the 8 string F tuning more than anything else, they do add a lot of their own flavour that makes them ATB. They are unique.


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## troyguitar (Mar 23, 2010)

ATB is not even close to Meshuggah. I can actually listen to ATB for more than 30 seconds. Though I still hate the vocals and a lot of the breakdown shit, at least they have some melodic content.


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## Andii (Mar 23, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Yes. After The Burial anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Truth. It's inescapable unless you're playing on the clean channel, or not using the low F#.





vampiregenocide said:


> Oh I don't know, they definitely sound like Meshuggah at parts but as said, I think thats down to the 8 string F tuning more than anything else, they do add a lot of their own flavour that makes them ATB. They are unique.


I listen to both bands all the time and hear no similarities whatsoever. I think hearing people say these things is a lot like hearing someone say that The Faceless sounds a lot like Killswitch Engage because they both play in drop C on six string guitars.


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## Philligan (Mar 23, 2010)

Andii said:


> I listen to both bands all the time and hear no similarities whatsoever. I think hearing people say these things is a lot like hearing someone say that The Faceless sounds a lot like Killswitch Engage because they both play in drop C on six string guitars.



Exactly. I do like Meshuggah, but they definitely took the AC/DC approach to things - they do what they do well and don't mess with it.

But look at Rareform. Every song on that album has a completely different vibe to it, and their breakdowns are more metalcore than anything else. The only song that comes even remotely close to sounding like Meshuggah is A Vicious Reforming Of Features.


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## Philligan (Mar 23, 2010)

Also, the Seinfeld breakdown in The Fractal Effect is like nothing I've ever heard before.


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## Jay Jay (Mar 23, 2010)

Philligan said:


> Also, the Seinfeld breakdown in The Fractal Effect is like nothing I've ever heard before.




YOU SIR ARE A GENIOUS!

I never even thought about that until just now and I can't stop loling!!!    


That's a pretty epic breakdown though man!


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## Cheesebuiscut (Mar 24, 2010)

Cant wait till I have an 8 tuned up a wholestep and people go OMG MESHUGGAH!

No. I tuned the wrong way to be them.


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## iondestroyer1527 (Mar 24, 2010)

my band played this past weekend and some guy said to me "holy shit 8 strings dude...that's like fuckin meshuggah" that is a direct quote and although we sound nothing like mesh...like a few people have said, that is basically always going to come with the territory. much like 7's and korn.


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## Ben.Last (Mar 24, 2010)

The idea that any band that has 8 string guitars tuned to F and played on a crunch channel is going to sound like Meshuggah is kind of preposterous. Does that mean that every band that has a 6 string guitarist tuned to standard and played on the crunch channel sounds the same???

This is the exact problem I have with people considering "djent" a genre. It's not a genre, it's a tonal quality. To take the guitar tone that Meshuggah made famous and deem it a genre is ridiculous.


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## shredzilla509 (Mar 24, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't think they're the most Meshuggah sounding band out there.  They play a lot of muted off beat stuff, which is common in metalcore/deathcore etc it just so happens they play it on the F string so it gets that trademarked Meshuggah sound. But a lot of their riffs, such as the beginning to Bezerker, are straight shred metalcore stuff that breaks it up.


 
I agree, I think ATB does a very good job at bringing a less obvious aproach to alot of the featured 8 string bands. Keeping it brutal and equally catchy. I actually don't think Meshuggah at all. maybe more Scar Symmetry esque?


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 24, 2010)

Lern2swim said:


> It's not a genre, it's a tonal quality. To take the guitar tone that Meshuggah made famous and deem it a genre is ridiculous.


 
So Ska is a ridiculous genre? It is named after the tone and technique used by guitarists of that style. Word meanings change, people need to get used to it. 

But I digress, I have my opinion on this matter and could talk about it till the cows come home.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 24, 2010)

Andii said:


> Saying After the Burial sounds like Meshuggah is the most absurd thing in this thread. The two bands are polar opposites. They use 8 string guitars and the similarities end there.





troyguitar said:


> ATB is not even close to Meshuggah. I can actually listen to ATB for more than 30 seconds. Though I still hate the vocals and a lot of the breakdown shit, at least they have some melodic content.





Andii said:


> I listen to both bands all the time and hear no similarities whatsoever. I think hearing people say these things is a lot like hearing someone say that The Faceless sounds a lot like Killswitch Engage because they both play in drop C on six string guitars.



False. I'm starting to think neither of you has listened to either band properly, because if you had we wouldn't be having this conversation. It really is as simple as that.

There was a thread like this before where the same discussion happened. Even though I was sure I was right, I listened to both bands again extensively to see if I was off the mark at all. Nope. Seriously dudes, go away and listen to both bands back to back and then we'll have this discussion. If you still can't hear it then you're either in denial or you're just upholding your pride for the sake of argument.


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## Andii (Mar 24, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> False. I'm starting to think neither of you has listened to either band properly, because if you had we wouldn't be having this conversation. It really is as simple as that.
> 
> There was a thread like this before where the same discussion happened. Even though I was sure I was right, I listened to both bands again extensively to see if I was off the mark at all. Nope. Seriously dudes, go away and listen to both bands back to back and then we'll have this discussion. If you still can't hear it then you're either in denial or you're just upholding your pride for the sake of argument.



I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. You're saying that meshuggah and a happy metalcore band sounds similar... **hops away in an assless bunny suit**


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## liamh (Mar 24, 2010)

*Facepalm*


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## Hypothermia (Mar 24, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> False. I'm starting to think neither of you has listened to either band properly, because if you had we wouldn't be having this conversation. It really is as simple as that.
> 
> There was a thread like this before where the same discussion happened. Even though I was sure I was right, I listened to both bands again extensively to see if I was off the mark at all. Nope. Seriously dudes, go away and listen to both bands back to back and then we'll have this discussion. If you still can't hear it then you're either in denial or you're just upholding your pride for the sake of argument.


I absolutely agree with you.

I understand that ATB is more of a metalcore band, BUT the meshuggah influences are extremely obvious.


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## Ben.Last (Mar 24, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> So Ska is a ridiculous genre? It is named after the tone and technique used by guitarists of that style. Word meanings change, people need to get used to it.
> 
> But I digress, I have my opinion on this matter and could talk about it till the cows come home.



There's a lot more to ska than the tuning and tone of the guitars. Do all ska guitarists use the same tuning? Could you give amp settings for "THE ska guitar tone"?


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 24, 2010)

Lern2swim said:


> There's a lot more to ska than the tuning and tone of the guitars. Do all ska guitarists use the same tuning? Could you give amp settings for "THE ska guitar tone"?


 
I'm sure there is more to it than that, but the simple matter is the name of the genre stems from the sound of the guitars thats all I was saying. The same thing that has become of djent. Theres more to both styles than just the guitar tone etc but I'm just talking about the etymology of the word.


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## troyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> False. I'm starting to think neither of you has listened to either band properly, because if you had we wouldn't be having this conversation. It really is as simple as that.
> 
> There was a thread like this before where the same discussion happened. Even though I was sure I was right, I listened to both bands again extensively to see if I was off the mark at all. Nope. Seriously dudes, go away and listen to both bands back to back and then we'll have this discussion. If you still can't hear it then you're either in denial or you're just upholding your pride for the sake of argument.



Show one example of an ATB song and a Meshuggah song that are similar for more than just a small part of the song...

All I hear from Meshuggah is stuff like this:



5 minutes of chugging and yelling with basically no melody at all.

Compared to an ATB track:



All melodic until the stupid breakdown parts at 1:20 and again at 2:50 and 3:30. Minus the vocals and retarded breakdown parts, they sound more like Cacophony than Meshuggah...


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## splinter8451 (Mar 24, 2010)

Can someone point me in the direction of a Meshuggah song with melodic shredding like is in every After the Burial song? IS there a Meshuggah song with sweeping? Most of ATB's songs are built around the shreddy bits and palm-muted power chords. 

I have listened to a ton of Meshuggah and have never heard any songs built like ATB builds theirs. 

This argument is so crazy 

To my ears Fellsilent is more Meshuggah sounding then After the Burial  Especially if you take out their clean riffs. And I guess really you could say the same for ATB if you took out all their shreddy riffs and just left the breakdowns sure they would sound like Meshuggah. They are both heavily influenced. 

Clearly this discussion has boiled down to a battle of opinions and Scar Symmetry is always so set in his ways I dunno why I even wrote up this post


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 24, 2010)

Hypothermia said:


> I absolutely agree with you.
> 
> I understand that ATB is more of a metalcore band, BUT the meshuggah influences are extremely obvious.



Thankyou. ATB have shred and happy stuff, but the Meshuggah influence is so set in that I'm stunned that some people can't hear it.



troyguitar said:


> Show one example of an ATB song and a Meshuggah song that are similar for more than just a small part of the song...











Take your pick. These songs are very typically Meshuggah and if you're a Meshuggah listener then you'll know that, but I'm not posting Meshuggah songs that they sound like as that would take far too long. There are way too many and the ATB stuff is very typically Meshuggah-esque, imitating in style rather than specific riffs.

I'm not being rude dude but it's not really up for discussion, it's just a simple fact


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## splinter8451 (Mar 24, 2010)

You're right it's not up for discussion, there are way bigger Meshuggah rip-offer's out there than ATB


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 24, 2010)

I'd say ATB sound as much like Born of Osiris as they do Meshuggah, but they still sound unique enough to have their own thing. Its mostly the fact they play 8 strings they're going to get similar sounds to Meshuggah regardless as they were the first band to use them in a metal context.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 24, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> These guys sound more Fell Silent than Meshuggah influenced, even though Fell Silent are Meshuggah influenced themselves.
> 
> I'm not bagging on ATB at all, just stating what anyone who listens to the two bands should already know.



I actually think they sounded more like Meshuggah than ATB... I can hear definite influences in ATB's stuff, but that's all it is (of all the tracks you posted i still only really heard "influences" rather than straight up ripping off../jumping on the bandwagon...).

EDIT: Ultimately though, who gives a shit. Really.


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## troyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm not being rude dude but it's not really up for discussion, it's just a simple fact



Yeah, I hear tons of catchy shreddy licks in Meshuggahs stuff. 

There's a Meshuggah influence (which is shown in the crappy parts of their songs), but the two bands do not sound alike. It's not up for discussion, it's a simple fact.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 24, 2010)

People will hear what they want to hear  It's why there are a) genres, and b) pigheaded arguments over what genre/style certain bands are... I don't think that ATB "sound like" meshuggah per se, but Scar hears it, he's not wrong, nor is he "right".

I mean shit, take my industrial list. There would be at least 250-300 bands/artists in that list, and I guarantee that if i showed it to some hardcore industrial elitists, they would not only disagree with some of them, they would take personal offense to half the bands there...


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## Cheesebuiscut (Mar 24, 2010)

*sigh*


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## Raoul Duke (Mar 24, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> EDIT: Ultimately though, who gives a shit. Really.



Pretty much 

If it sounds *good* then who really cares if it sounds similar to some other *good* music


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## Philligan (Mar 25, 2010)

Jay Jay said:


> YOU SIR ARE A GENIOUS!
> 
> I never even thought about that until just now and I can't stop loling!!!
> 
> ...



Haha thanks. When that hit me I was like 

On a different note, when I listen to After The Burial (which is a lot haha), the bands I think of most are a fairly equal combination of August Burns Red and Dream Theater.

Anyone else feel like that? Or even something remotely close to that?


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 25, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> I can hear definite influences in ATB's stuff, but that's all it is (of all the tracks you posted i still only really heard "influences" rather than straight up ripping off../jumping on the bandwagon...).



If you read my posts again, that's all I'm saying dude  There's no two ways about it though, the influence is clear and strong. Anyone with ears should hear it, it's not a question of what I think but rather what most of us already know.



Demoniac said:


> I don't think that ATB "sound like" meshuggah per se, but Scar hears it, he's not wrong, nor is he "right".



Funny you should say that... 



troyguitar said:


> Yeah, I hear tons of catchy shreddy licks in Meshuggahs stuff.
> 
> There's a Meshuggah influence (which is shown in the crappy parts of their songs), but the two bands do not sound alike. It's not up for discussion, it's a simple fact.



Are you trying to troll me out? Coz it's working.

To look at the discussion in a positive light, at least no-one has resorted to shit-flinging or childish neg-repping... yet.


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## Krullnar (Mar 25, 2010)

A better thread would be, 'When bands have choruses like Fellsilent', so we have fair warning and don't get surprised with that horrible shit when we're checking these bands out.


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## Aulecai (Mar 25, 2010)

Rick said:


> Yeah, exactly. I'm afraid to write something with even a little polyrhythm in it because someone's bound to say, "Oh, you're ripping off Meshuggah!" Which is funny because I'm not THAT big of a fan of them to begin with.



It makes me sad to see a LOT of you guys saying stuff like this. You're afraid to be accused of ripping off a band you don't even particularly enjoy in the first place?

Guys, birds of a feather flock together. 90 percent of anyone into ERG's, djent, polyrhythms, third-eye implications into music, etc are into those things because everyone into one of those things is usually into another. It's a way of life, and it all started about 10 years ago. 
First, you got into all the big bands... some of us took the dark, innovative approach and started off with bands like Korn, Tool, SOAD and Mudvayne... 
Others started with the more metal, precise, "anthem"-esque bands like KSE, Disturbed, Arch Enemy, In Flames...

And over a 5 year period, as we matured, we all went down our very own twisting, turning, ebbing, flowing path of musical interest.

Whichever path we took, we all ended up here for essentially the same reasons. And so did ANYONE else who takes interest in djent/ERGs/meshuggah/polyrhythms/third-eye metal/neo classical/prog/extended range jazz/experimental music.

The only other reason there is to end up interested in any of those things is because you ACTUALLY ARE just trying to fit in to some social crowd or way of doing things and pretending you grew up like all of us legitimates did.

But you guys need to think about this: ANYONE LEGITIMATE can tell if what you are doing/saying/playing is legitimate! The only type of person that will accuse you of "ripping off meshuggah" is a poser themselves UNLESS YOU yourself are a poser and THEY are a legitimate.

So, yes, it's a Catch 33 (<- +1 for Meshuggah humor) but we all know, deep down, what we really are inside. Why on earth would you avoid playing what you really love because you don't want to be a poser, while all the TRUE POSERS are off playing what YOU really love!

"All you are is you." - Deftones


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## Daemoniac (Mar 25, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> If you read my posts again, that's all I'm saying dude  There's no two ways about it though, the influence is clear and strong. Anyone with ears should hear it, it's not a question of what I think but rather what most of us already know.



Yeah i can definitely hear an influence there, and I don't even listen to them  (ATB that is...). They don't "sound the same" in any way, but I do agree on the influence.


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## Rational Gaze (Mar 25, 2010)

Aulecai said:


> It makes me sad to see a LOT of you guys saying stuff like this. You're afraid to be accused of ripping off a band you don't even particularly enjoy in the first place?
> 
> Guys, birds of a feather flock together. 90 percent of anyone into ERG's, djent, polyrhythms, third-eye implications into music, etc are into those things because everyone into one of those things is usually into another. It's a way of life, and it all started about 10 years ago.
> First, you got into all the big bands... some of us took the dark, innovative approach and started off with bands like Korn, Tool, SOAD and Mudvayne...
> ...



Word.  Post of the thread.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 26, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> A better thread would be, 'When bands have choruses like Fellsilent', so we have fair warning and don't get surprised with that horrible shit when we're checking these bands out.


 
Woah you just diss FS?



Aulecai said:


> It makes me sad to see a LOT of you guys saying stuff like this. You're afraid to be accused of ripping off a band you don't even particularly enjoy in the first place?
> 
> Guys, birds of a feather flock together. 90 percent of anyone into ERG's, djent, polyrhythms, third-eye implications into music, etc are into those things because everyone into one of those things is usually into another. It's a way of life, and it all started about 10 years ago.
> First, you got into all the big bands... some of us took the dark, innovative approach and started off with bands like Korn, Tool, SOAD and Mudvayne...
> ...


 
Wuuuuurd.


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## Krullnar (Mar 26, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Woah you just diss FS?



It's silly to be this badass Meshuggah-type band then all of a sudden go into a childish popmetal chorus. I don't get why they would do that, things sound so good then all of a sudden I'm knocking over my beer scrambling to click stop.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 26, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> It's silly to be this badass Meshuggah-type band then all of a sudden go into a childish popmetal chorus. I don't get why they would do that, things sound so good then all of a sudden I'm knocking over my beer scrambling to click stop.


 
Its just their style.  I like Meshuggah, but I also really like bands such as Fellsilent, Periphery and Tesseract that mix up that chuggy/djenty riffing with real melodic sections. It's not silly, its just their way of doing things.


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## Krullnar (Mar 26, 2010)

Aulecai said:


> It makes me sad to see a LOT of you guys saying stuff like this. You're afraid to be accused of ripping off a band you don't even particularly enjoy in the first place?
> 
> Guys, birds of a feather flock together. 90 percent of anyone into ERG's, djent, polyrhythms, third-eye implications into music, etc are into those things because everyone into one of those things is usually into another. It's a way of life, and it all started about 10 years ago.
> First, you got into all the big bands... some of us took the dark, innovative approach and started off with bands like Korn, Tool, SOAD and Mudvayne...
> ...



That's a cop out, and I couldn't disagree more. Individuality speaks for itself, and individuality is the reason we play. 

It's comforting to be able to write music that meets their intended audience's expectations, or that can hold their own in the style of our favorite bands, and to be recognized for being able to emulate it competently. But I feel it's a responsibility of any serious musician- to oneself and to the audience- to have their own voice that differentiates themselves from their influences, and not hide behind an excuse that somehow absolves the music from emulating another band's sound. 

That's how things move forward instead of everyone riding a trend until it's time to move to the next one. 

I still listen to bands that fit into certain formulas, we all do. But when it comes down to discussions like this, it's a good time to say it like it is.


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## troyguitar (Mar 26, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> It's silly to be this badass Meshuggah-type band then all of a sudden go into a childish popmetal chorus. I don't get why they would do that, things sound so good then all of a sudden I'm knocking over my beer scrambling to click stop.



When I'm listening to it it's more like "Things sound like crap and I'm thinking about turning it off" until they get to the chorus then I'm like "WTF why don't they just play like this the rest of the time? - it actually sounds like a song now"

But of course, having melody at all in your music is childish and/or gay...


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## Krullnar (Mar 26, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> When I'm listening to it it's more like "Things sound like crap and I'm thinking about turning it off" until they get to the chorus then I'm like "WTF why don't they just play like this the rest of the time? - it actually sounds like a song now"
> 
> But of course, having melody at all in your music is childish and/or gay...



It's not that it's melodic, it's that it sounds childish and out of place with the harshness of the rest of the music.


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 26, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> It's not that it's melodic, it's that it sounds childish and out of place with the harshness of the rest of the music.


 
Fair enough, I don't see that myself but each to his own.


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## Evil7 (Mar 26, 2010)

I've always listened to the "djent" sound and felt slightly annoyed when its just open forward palm muted notes tring to be offtime.
on a side note...Dime bag was doin forward djenty muting way back....

not that dime was anything like "djent" music.....

I see meshuggah as complex and truly went their own way..
I see others open "djenting" attempting to go meshuggah's way.

Sorta like i hate open breakdowns in any "core" music... I hate simple boring open djent that isnt as technical as meshuggah . just tring to create a "djent" sound from the guitar? ..i can kick the guitar strings and it might make a Djent.....  Have you seen the look on the faces of people open djenting or playing open breakdowns.... even they look bored..


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## Rational Gaze (Mar 26, 2010)

My biggest problem is that all these bands use virtually identical production on all their music. I'd probably like them more one band to the next if everything didn't sound identical. Mids extremely accentuated on the guitar, tiny-uber compressed snares, everything squashed to shit, vocalists that can't seem to not sound the same. I know it's all relative to all the other things that are being talked about, but it makes the music sound less interesting as a result. Sure, you show me a djenty band I haven't heard before, and they may be playing their stuff slightly differently from Textures or Periphery, but I already feel way too familiar because the aural presence of the music itself isn't even interesting to my ears the minute I hear it, simply because I can already tell what's gonna happen next. I dunno... the "genre" has become hopelessly predictable.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 26, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> Yeah i can definitely hear an influence there, and I don't even listen to them  (ATB that is...). They don't "sound the same" in any way, but I do agree on the influence.



Haha riiiiiiight


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## vampiregenocide (Mar 26, 2010)

I really don't see this whole thing with djent bands sounding the same. The only bands that I have found that are with bands that members have left and joined other projects where they obviously play in a smilar style.


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## Evil7 (Mar 26, 2010)

when the whole genre is based around the sound.... "djent" how can they not sound the same?
lol ......... just a joke.....


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## Cheesebuiscut (Mar 26, 2010)

This threads still going...


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## MJS (Mar 26, 2010)

The way I read it is if you play heavy single note patterns on the low strings of an 8-string, you're Meshuggah... but if you play the same thing on a bass, you're a bassist. Right?  

I guess I don't hear that stuff & think "Meshuggah" (or any other band for that matter). I just hear it all as bass lines being played on a guitar... and don't really see a problem with it. 

I guess part of the reason I see it that way is because the low strings seem to bring out a different style of playing than the other 5/6. It's like you're playing guitar from E to E, but playing bass from B down. 

What does Morten & Fredrik play if you hand them two 6-strings tuned to E standard? Something amazing & original, or something that's already been done on the most common guitar setup there is? 

Yes... I do realize some people just play them like any other guitar & even notice some rarely even touch the 7th/8th strings... but they seem like the minority. Or some just see it as an extra string or two to sweep across. 

Having said all of that, I don't really listen to bands like Meshuggah, or anything that contains growling... just ruins it for me. I'd rather listen to someone like Keith Merrow than any of them--_unless he starts letting someone growl over his songs_.  

I kinda like this video because there's no growling ruining it... but I guess I still don't see anything that hasn't been done on bass. Could just be me missing it, though. 

 

Picture this in a loud & annoying Jeff Foxworthy voice: If yewwwwwww wrap tape around the hiiiiiigh strings of yer geetar... ya _might_ be a bass player.  

Not bashing the style & actually like it (_minus the growling_). I just don't get how every single low note that gets played is somehow supposed to be credited to a single band. 

Another thing... how much would this style of playing stand out in a band with a bass player that actually stands out? There are probably Primus fans that can't picture the guitar parts in some of their favorite songs because they're all bass-driven. If Les put down the bass and picked up an 8-string guitar, something tells me it would still sound just like Primus.


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## ShreddingDragon (May 5, 2010)

I was about 15 when I found Dream Theater and their A Change of Seasons. Heck, back then I didn't even KNOW any other 7-string songs, but I absolutely had to get a 7-string guitar so I could learn ACoS. I still consider that purchase a very honest one. I did it because I loved a song so much, and wanted to learn to play it, and that's it. I didn't want to sound like Dream Theater in that sense, I just loved the song and the music.

It's kind of similar now that I'm buying an 8-string. The reason I got interested was indeed Meshuggah, and I want to play their songs too, but I have some own music concepts and ideas designed that make a clear difference to Meshuggah. So in both cases, a band has acted as a stepping stone - and in the end I agree that there's nothing wrong in simply playing music that makes you happy. That's what I believe this is all about after all...


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## NaYoN (May 5, 2010)

For me, the moment I decided I wanted an 8-string was seeing After The Burial live. The way it made me feel was undescribable, and I wanted to learn how to do it.


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## mattofvengeance (May 6, 2010)

NaYoN said:


> For me, the moment I decided I wanted an 8-string was seeing After The Burial live. The way it made me feel was undescribable, and I wanted to learn how to do it.



For me as well. I love Meshuggah, but it was AtB's blend of that sound with Jason Becker-esque shred and melody that inspired me.


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## MF_Kitten (May 6, 2010)

while meshuggah was a huge eye-opener in my playing, my decision to purchase a 7 string was a combination of not just meshuggah, but also Korn and Bulb. how the hell does that work, you ask? well, the lowest tuning i had heard until that point was low A (Korn), and that was on a 7 string. but then i figured i could just o it on a 6 string tuned down. until i heard bulb. those really nice high cleans combined with the low Ab just did it for me. i decided for drop G, to have the best of both worlds.

then i started trying loooow tunings when i got my baritone 6 string, and i was like OMFG THIS FEELS AWESOME!

then i was sold... i needed an 8 string so i could do THAT while still having the high notes. which brings me to my current situation 

as it usually is for me, i´m not really as influenced by meshuggah directly as i am influenced by others that are influenced by meshuggah. tesseract and bulb/periphery were two bands that showed me different ways of approaching things that i already knew. luckily though, i´ve gotten over the "BROOTAL POLYRYTHMIC DJENTS ONLY" period, and now i´ve got a huge amount of different influences that have widened my bag of tricks. so i wouldn´t say i sound like meshuggah anymore, but you could hear the influence, for sure. i tend to stay away from straight 4/4 unless i´m using it on purpose. it feels constricted to me, now that i´ve gotten used to wild meters. all of it is thanks to meshuggah.

the thing about meshuggah´s polymetrics and riffing styles and all that, is that once you´ve seen it, you can´t unsee it. you can only add onto it and use it in your own way.


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

what I don't like about all these "djent" bands is they all have that annoying high-pitched metalcore-style singing. They need better singers, that don't sound like whiney teenagers.
TesseracT's singer is okay, I will submit, but guys like the Periphery singer just really turn me off otherwise pretty interesting music.
IMO, that's where all djent bands fail: they lack a singer with the power of Kidman.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 6, 2010)

Thats about the most ignit thing ever... how would you propose spencer get "better"? by singing in a style other than his own that suits what you like more? Would that make it better? No. No it wouldn't.

Hes an impressive vocalist once you get over your own personal bias and actually pay attention to his vocals.


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## Krullnar (May 6, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Thats about the most ignit thing ever... how would you propose spencer get "better"? by singing in a style other than his own that suits what you like more? Would that make it better? No. No it wouldn't.
> 
> Hes an impressive vocalist once you get over your own personal bias and actually pay attention to his vocals.



Kiddy vocals is a blight on metal. I've been a metal listener for over 20 years and I've never heard anything in metal that is more jarring, and borderline offensive.

It actually baffles me, that it even happens. I have no understanding of the people that appreciate it, or that create it. It's like a fucking X-File to me.


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## Customisbetter (May 6, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> Kiddy vocals is a blight on metal. I've been a metal listener for over 20 years and I've never heard anything in metal that is more jarring, and borderline offensive.
> 
> It actually baffles me, that it even happens. I have no understanding of the people that appreciate it, or that create it. It's like a fucking X-File to me.



  

this has to be a troll.


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Thats about the most ignit thing ever... how would you propose spencer get "better"? by singing in a style other than his own that suits what you like more? Would that make it better? No. No it wouldn't.
> 
> Hes an impressive vocalist once you get over your own personal bias and actually pay attention to his vocals.


I'm not saying he's a bad singer, but his voice is annoyingly high (remember, this is just my opinion), and even his agressive vocals just don't have the same power as Kidman.


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## Krullnar (May 6, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> this has to be a troll.



I take it you disagree with me, then.


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## eaeolian (May 6, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> this has to be a troll.



Nope. I know a large number of people that like metal, and hate screaming. There's a whole lot of it that contains, you know, actual *singing*.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 6, 2010)

eaeolian said:


> Nope. I know a large number of people that like metal, and hate screaming. There's a whole lot of it that contains, you know, actual *singing*.



The guy hes saying is trolling is talking about spencers singing (or that kind of singing) being "offensive to metal" as opposed to just straight up screaming or angry vocals. Because that guys opinion of what is or isn't metal matters  oh if music were so bland as to stick to one persons narrow minded opinion of it. 

@corey: Thats fine that you don't like his range, but to say they need to get a "better" vocalist when hes a damned impressive vocalist as is is just silly and ignorant. 

Hes not kidman, if every single vocalist sounded as cut and dry as any one vocalist the world would be a boring place. I love the contrast between "kiddie vocals" and screams as it adds more flavor to a song than something so bland as just monotone screaming.

I still don't get people who sit around hating on music instead of just enjoying the music they enjoy. I also don't get why these same people are constantly complaining about "djent bands" as if theres these mass amount of them when theres soOOOoooOoOooooO few and none of them sound exactly the same.

Such a stupid practice... especially when it comes to periphery since they released all of their songs instrumental...


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## eaeolian (May 6, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> The guy hes saying is trolling is talking about spencers singing (or that kind of singing) being "offensive to metal" as opposed to just straight up screaming or angry vocals. Because that guys opinion of what is or isn't metal matters  oh if music were so bland as to stick to one persons narrow minded opinion of it.



Regardless of my misinterpretation, he's voicing the opinion of a great many metal fans with that as well. From a technical aspect, I don't think much of Spencer's vox on the disc or the style in general, either, although there are a few guys who do it well. Same goes for growling/screaming, in fact - there's a few guys who do it well, and a lot that I ignore.

As far as being a troll, this whole thread is one. It's a discussion forum, and people are discussing.  However, he's obviously offended YOU, so you apparently think it matters what someone says about it.

_Edit: making my idea more clear FTW!_


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## TemjinStrife (May 6, 2010)

Cookie monster/screech/growl vocals in general are pretty awful. There are a few guys who can pull it off (Opeth, Amorphis, November's Doom) but the vast majority of it is atonal, ameldodic cringe-worthy additions to what might otherwise be some badass heavy music.


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## Customisbetter (May 6, 2010)

Its ok to have an opinion. I was just kind of shocked by the grandness of his.  Most people i know wouldn't say Spence is offensive sounding. You usually hear that about bands that growl and scream more than they sing.


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## Randy (May 6, 2010)

No idea how a Meshuggah thread descended into a discussion about Spencer. 

For myself, anytime a conversation opens up about something "ruining metal" or whatever, a post by HAUCH comes to mind:



> I think some of that stuff is really brutal and effective. I don't think I'd be able to listen to it all day, but it's cool shit... In doses.
> 
> I remember an editor's quote from Revolver a few years back. It read something like "you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 150 metalcore bands". and a few years ago, that was the fucking truth! I remember when people were hating on metalcore when it was hot, just like deathcore gets hated nowadays. Whether you like it or not, it's keeping the money rollin and putting "metal" in the press.
> 
> ...



While he's specifically talking about the deathcore thing, I say the same is relevant to the Mesh. or Periphery/I-hate-screaming-vocalist discussion. For myself, I try to take it all in stride. If it's got some popularity or there's a group of people that like it, I try to garner what I can from the experience even if it's not the first thing I'd pop in my tape deck. 

I'm not going to hate on anybody for disliking a genre/subgenre/style, whatever. Your taste is your taste and nobody's going to take that away from you. To say that something is a "blight on metal" or that you "have no understanding" of how people can appreciate something is a _*bit*_ of an overstatement. If you have trouble understanding why people enjoy something you don't so much, then I'd submit to you that the problem might not be everyone else.


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## eaeolian (May 6, 2010)

Randy said:


> No idea how a Meshuggah thread descended into a discussion about Spencer.



It's SS.org. Every thread eventually ends in something about Periphery. 

Regardless, yeah, this has meandered pretty bad, but I think we're still on topic, as this is a "bands that sound like Meshuggah" thread, which Periphery definitely fits under.

To address other stuff in your post: genre discussions are *always* going to descend into this stuff, but sweeping generalizations, while human, are probably a bit much.

Still, I can understand where he's coming from, in a way.


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> @corey: Thats fine that you don't like his range, but to say they need to get a "better" vocalist when hes a damned impressive vocalist as is is just silly and ignorant.
> 
> Hes not kidman, if every single vocalist sounded as cut and dry as any one vocalist the world would be a boring place. I love the contrast between "kiddie vocals" and screams as it adds more flavor to a song than something so bland as just monotone screaming.
> 
> ...


I'm just saying I don't think his voice emits the same KIND of strength as kidman. I'm not saying he should sound exactly the same, but in my opinion his voice doesn't fit to Periphery's music, and his melody ideas are pretty lacking (not sure if he's the one who actually wrote them, but whoever did didn't do a very good job of it, considering the epicness of the music).
And how is it ignorant? I'm saying I don't think his vocals fit to the music, and they should get someone more fitting to the style. I don't think that as ignorant.
For instance: TesseracT's singer has a very similar voice to the guy from periphery, but his melodis are alot better (again, my opinion), and they fit to the more ethereal music of TesseracT better than to the more agressive music of Periphery.

Why are we arguing about this? this is just my opinion. it's not ignorant or uninformed. I bought the Periphery album, and love it to death (the guitar solo in "Racecar" is one of the BEST solos I've ever heard), and the vocalist just kinda ruins the music for me.

EDIT: oh, and I'm not talking about his growling vocals, I'm talking about his normal singing voice. that's what iritates me, and not because I hate melodical "normal" singing in metal. I just dislike his singing voice and melodies with Periphery's music. 
IMO, they should get someone with a deeper, fuller voice.

EDIT:



eaeolian said:


> It's SS.org. Every thread eventually ends in something about Periphery.



that's because every time you say something negative about periphery you're ripped to shreds by legions of fanboys. it's the same on any other website, as well.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 6, 2010)

Yeah I never called him a troll because it doesn't get much accomplished pointing fingers.

I disagree with his (and many a metal fans) opinion that metal has to be as closed minded as them and not a form of music where people can express themselves however they want without limitations. 



eaeolian said:


> It's SS.org. Every thread eventually ends in something about Periphery.





Anyway  I think it became a discussion about periphery because the thread was started under the idea of "bands that wannabe meshuggah" and to the people who try to point that finger periphery is probably the #1 band attacked at this point.


@corey: The thing I've been quoting the whole time is what I've been calling ignorant... you saying they need a "better" vocalist... 

Said that like 3 times now...


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> @corey: The thing I've been quoting the whole time is what I've been calling ignorant... you saying they need a "better" vocalist...
> 
> Said that like 3 times now...


why is that ignorant? 
I don't think their vocalist fits, and they should get one that fits the music more. Call it "more fitting" vocalist then. I haven't been calling the guy bad, just not to my taste. "More adhering to my taste", then.


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## Krullnar (May 6, 2010)

Randy said:


> No idea how a Meshuggah thread descended into a discussion about Spencer.
> 
> For myself, anytime a conversation opens up about something "ruining metal" or whatever, a post by HAUCH comes to mind:
> 
> ...



I think Periphery keeps coming up because they're an example of what's wrong, and they're huge on this site.

Sometimes personal preference is the case, but sometimes something is truly lame. When hair metal was popular, a whole lot of people knew that it sucked from day one. Some listeners are ahead of the curve. Some trends' popularity (due to the support of inexperienced listeners) can influence the direction of a genre, and possibly it's future. Just look at what hair metal did- it made metal seem lame and ushered in a huge backlash (local guitar shops would barely stock any shred guitars at all for like 5 years after Nevermind was released). We have to keep it honest.

I suppose I'm kind of equating whiny kid vocals with hair metal. I highly doubt it will have the same consequences, but still... not good.


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## Rick (May 6, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> why is that ignorant?
> I don't think their vocalist fits, and they should get one that fits the music more. Call it "more fitting" vocalist then. I haven't been calling the guy bad, just not to my taste. "More adhering to my taste", then.



That's the problem, you think Spencer doesn't fit their music but they do. That's why he's their vocalist.


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Rick said:


> That's the problem, *you think Spencer doesn't fit their music but they do*. That's why he's their vocalist.


Spencer is a group of people? 

nah, I mean he's okay, I just think he has that really very typical whiney -core style of singing, which I just cannot stand. that's all.

Jesus, you say something bad about periphery and everyone starts calling you out. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like his singing, so just give it a rest already.

Jeez.


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## Krullnar (May 6, 2010)

Rick said:


> That's the problem, you think Spencer doesn't fit their music but they do. That's why he's their vocalist.



The vocals in Periphery is like Michael Jackson delivering Winston Churchill's 'We shall fight them on the beaches' speech.


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## Rick (May 6, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> *I*don't think their vocalist fits, and they should get one that fits the music more.



You never said a group of people in your post, you said I. I have no problem with you not liking his vocal style, I'm just confused about the 2nd part of the quote.


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## Randy (May 6, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> The vocals in Periphery is like Michael Jackson delivering Winston Churchill's 'We shall fight them on the beaches' speech.



Oh sweet, where can I get a copy?


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Rick said:


> You never said a group of people in your post, you said I. I have no problem with you not liking his vocal style, I'm just confused about the 2nd part of the quote.


your quote: *you think Spencer doesn't fit their music but they do

*whois "they"?  should it be "but he does"?it's a horrible joke, just forget it.


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## failshredder (May 6, 2010)

I like Meshuggah. A lot.

But I hate most bands that sound like Meshuggah.

Besides, Meshuggah was already doing cool stuff before they had 8-strings. Say, 7s.


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## Varcolac (May 6, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> your quote: *you think Spencer doesn't fit their music but they do
> 
> *whois "they"?  should it be "but he does"?it's a horrible joke, just forget it.



They is Periphery. They (Bulb _et al_) think Spencer fits their music.


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## coreysMonster (May 6, 2010)

Varcolac said:


> They is Periphery. They (Bulb _et al_) think Spencer fits their music.


oh damn, NOW I get it *facepalm*

curse my german understanding of english!
sorry Rick, my bad.


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## Deadnightshade (May 6, 2010)

TemjinStrife said:


> Cookie monster/screech/growl vocals in general are pretty awful. There are a few guys who can pull it off (Opeth, Amorphis, November's Doom) but the vast majority of it is atonal, ameldodic cringe-worthy additions to what might otherwise be some badass heavy music.




I think Aeon have killer vocals too..maybe my favorite of the growling kind

Also,IMO meshuggah screaming vocals are closer in terms of technique to the above mentioned bands (aeon,opeth,november's doom) rather than -core screaming vocals.I don't know why i said that.I haven't watched the rest of the thread.


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## Emperoff (May 6, 2010)

Metal Ken said:


> I cant stand bands that sound like meshuggah/bulb/djent stuff at all. When i hear someone's clips and then djent starts, I turn that shit off prompt.



This.

To be honest, Bulb, Keith and Chimp are the only ones I can stand.


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## freepower (May 6, 2010)

Krullnar said:


> I think Periphery keeps coming up because they're an example of what's wrong, and they're huge on this site.
> 
> Sometimes personal preference is the case, but sometimes something is truly lame. When hair metal was popular, a whole lot of people knew that it sucked from day one. Some listeners are ahead of the curve. Some trends' popularity _(due to the support of inexperienced listeners)_ can influence the direction of a genre, and possibly it's future. Just look at what hair metal did- it made metal seem lame and ushered in a huge backlash (local guitar shops would barely stock any shred guitars at all for like 5 years after Nevermind was released). We have to keep it honest.
> 
> I suppose I'm kind of equating whiny kid vocals with hair metal. I highly doubt it will have the same consequences, but still... not good.



...


Excuse me if people aren't trying to make political listening choices based on keeping existing music popular. 

And inexperienced listeners? I'm pretty damn sure that enjoying music takes no experience whatsoever and that's one of the best things about it.


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## leandroab (May 6, 2010)

Rational Gaze said:


> Right now it's brootalz on the low string with some mid-range notes every now and then, a singer that screams, but can also sing a high range, the DFHS drum production, a clean guitar playing underneath a solo (whilst the clean tone is nearly identical from one band to the next-shimmery, bright tone), etc...



Yeah. If anyone noticed yet, compare Tesseract, Vildhjarta, and other similar bands. They all really sound the same.

Well, are they ripoffs? No. Do they sound fucking awesome? Yes.

So, that means more of this kind avaliable!


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## Andromalia (May 7, 2010)

I know I'm a djent heatehn infidel to be burnt at the stake but...what's the point of using 8's if you endup muting the highest strings as in the shown video a few posts earlier ?


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## eaeolian (May 7, 2010)

Heh. Welcome to having your personal pet "genre" attacked - boy, a whole lot of you that say "such and such's opinion doesn't matter" sure have your backs up about it. You'll live through it, I guarantee it. 

Regardless, some of the criticism is oversimplification, but some of it is valid, if perhaps a tad over-hyperbole'd.


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## Randy (May 7, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> I know I'm a djent heatehn infidel to be burnt at the stake but...what's the point of using 8's if you endup muting the highest strings as in the shown video a few posts earlier ?



He normally uses all 7 of them to some degree, but for that specific video/song, the point seemed to be more about highlighting rhythm work. If you listen to the album vs. the clip, you'll notice there are some bits of those songs cut out and the rhythm is a LOT punchier. I just figured that was deliberate. 

In much the same fashion, if I'm writing and performing a song... I do it just as my guitar stands normally, but if I'm highlighting a specific sweeping or tapping section, I use a hairband to cut down on string noise. In a normal setting, it's tolerable but if I'm spotlighting something or using it to instruct someone, it's easier if I mute what I'm not using to limit confusion.


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## Rick (May 7, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> oh damn, NOW I get it *facepalm*
> 
> curse my german understanding of english!
> sorry Rick, my bad.



No problem, I should have worded it better.


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## wannabguitarist (May 7, 2010)

Since this thread has already fallen of course slightly does Periphery remind anyone else more of Sikth than Meshuggah? I definitely feel more of a Sikth influence 

I actually prefer bands like Periphery, Tesseract, and Fellsilent/Monuments over Meshuggah. While I really enjoy Obzen and some of the older material from time to time it bored the fuck out of me if I'm not really in the right mood.


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## Alekke (May 8, 2010)

definitely more Sikth ...very little meshuggah or maybe none.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 8, 2010)

Alekke said:


> definitely more Sikth ...very little meshuggah or maybe none.


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## Acatalepsy (May 8, 2010)

*Message to Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... : Meshuggah is still the best at being Meshuggah.*

I personally find a lot of these clones uninteresting and redundant.


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## Prydogga (May 8, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> *Message to Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... : Meshuggah is still the best at being Meshuggah.*
> 
> I personally find a lot of these clones uninteresting and redundant.



Dude are you serious? How can you think Textures is a clone of Mesh? Same genre maybe, but clone? Come on.


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## sol niger 333 (May 8, 2010)

I don't care. As long as the band makes an effort to evolve it into something new. Tesseract have some vibe going. I love Meshuggah but as envelope pushing as they are in a sense they are still very one dimensional. As utterly flawless and mindblowingly incredible that one dimension may be I am confident that people can take that sound further into diversity than Meshuggah themselves.


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## sol niger 333 (May 8, 2010)

Prydogga said:


> Dude are you serious? How can you think Textures is a clone of Mesh? Same genre maybe, but clone? Come on.




There are moments in Textures music that the riff is so close if not identical to a Meshuggah riff. Seriously. I would hope that people would now be extremely conscious of which of their riffs are original and which are just a re adaptation of a meshuggah riff now that Mesh are so worldwide. As much as I love a good polyrhythm I think it is something that people need to grasp a little less tightly because I'm starting to hear a lot of repetition since I first heard Meshuggah 14 years ago. It leaves me gagging to just hear a helmet or Pantera riff thats just 4 on the floor on the beat and pounding


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## Customisbetter (May 8, 2010)

I was only reminded of Meshuggah two or three times on the Periphery record, the most is a few parts of "Ow my feelings". There are some "tonally djenty" parts as well as that descending droney piece towards the end of the song (4:31).


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## Scarpie (May 8, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> I'm starting to hear a lot of repetition since I first heard Meshuggah 14 years ago. It leaves me gagging to hear a helmet or Pantera riff thats just 4 on the floor on the beat and pounding



Amen. 

I find myself appreciating the heavy music from the 90's more and more, for this very reason.


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## DJENTxCORE901 (May 8, 2010)

Dethfield said:


> I do not agree. I play 8's and dont write songs that are quite different from their stuff. Most of what i play is judas priest/iron maiden stuff with the added range of the ERG. Im not really into that whole death metal/hardcore/black metal/obnoxious growl type metal. (i dont know much about the different genres of todays metal, they all sound the same to me).


 


I'm insulted. Nah just playing. If you don't like that stuff it can all sound the same. kids who like it know the difference. I think all that blues and country and rock crap sound the same... probably because i don't like it.
But I get your point. But I love that shit. it's important to me.

Edit: Another thing is EVERYONE has influences for their music. If they don't they probably suck. So people like meshuggah and try to bring that style into their music. Calling them clones is something that couldn't have been well thought out.


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## coreysMonster (May 8, 2010)

the fanboyism for djent bands is incredible.
People think that just because they play an ERG their opinion matters more than other's.


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## Customisbetter (May 8, 2010)

^Djent isn't a genre, and ERG user opinions DO matter more.


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## eaeolian (May 8, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> ^Djent isn't a genre, and ERG user opinions DO matter more.



I'd disagree on both - Djent is definitely splintering into its own genre, and you can play an ERG and still be a musical moron. I personally know a couple of examples of it. 

So while Corey is being grumpy, there's a grain of truth in what he's saying.


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## Customisbetter (May 8, 2010)

I'll agree to disagree, but i do have one point to make...

I believe his opinion on Djent fanboyism is relative to his environment. The punk and Indie fanboyism in my area is absurd, but in relation to any other genre (including the ones usually fellated on this very forum), its not "incredible". 

Every genre has fanboys, Corey just happens to be in the forum with the highest concentration for this genre.


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## Ben.Last (May 8, 2010)

Sigh... ANOTHER conversation about djent as a genre... barf

I enjoy a lot of the bands that get lumped into this "genre" but at the same time I do agree that it's to the point of saturation (especially on this board). My issue is that, with most genres, you'll have a variety of bands with many things in common but with the idea of djent as a genre we've narrowed it down so much that it's inevitable that bands WILL sound "the same." It's a genre based on a specific guitar tone for Christ's sake.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 8, 2010)

"Djent" is synonymous with "Fail".


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## MJS (May 8, 2010)

I just accidentally bumped into one of the knobs on my amp and created an awesome new style of music called djunt, which is nothing like djent. I'd upload an example of it, but I don't want everyone to rip me off like they did with Meshuggah.


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## leandroab (May 9, 2010)

HAHAHAH DJUNT!!!


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## the unbearable (May 10, 2010)

i literally, like just at the beginning of this thread, started listening to tesseract. fucking love it. just fwiw, if anybody cares.


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## Adriatic (May 10, 2010)

Meshuggah were once upon a time labled, "Metallica" clones...


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## Customisbetter (May 11, 2010)

^I honestly thought they WERE Metallica when i first heard those older records.


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## coreysMonster (May 11, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> ^I honestly thought they WERE Metallica when i first heard those older records.


I found some of their older songs by chance and thought "the hell, this is some cheap Metallica ripoff"

little did I know....

also, they played a song called "Attacked by a Shark". How badass is that?


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## Groove (May 11, 2010)

coreysMonster said:


> I found some of their older songs by chance and thought "the hell, this is some cheap Metallica ripoff"
> 
> little did I know....
> 
> also, they played a song called "Attacked by a Shark". How badass is that?




HAHA awesome song! 

I don't find the whole rip-off meshuggah thing annoying so much as disappointing in a way. I know we all love certain bands but some really do just STEAL and i don't understand why you would want to just keep music at a certain level and not try and progress it.

I just think that eventually it will move on and WILL evolve into something even better. This has happened at practically every stage of music when some band/person redefined a sound or genre of music and everyone copies it, until people are pissed off and want something new so they actually go and make it themselves.

So who's going to get there first? Race you...


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## thefool (May 11, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> *Message to Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... : Meshuggah is still the best at being Meshuggah.*
> 
> I personally find a lot of these clones uninteresting and redundant.



this is stupid. i guess only one band can ever play 8 strings. everyone lets throw our 8 strings out the window.


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## Acatalepsy (May 11, 2010)

thefool said:


> this is stupid. i guess only one band can ever play 8 strings. everyone lets throw our 8 strings out the window.



You carry your name well- I think you'll find I have no obligation to conform to your point of view. I find this type of thing uninteresting, but if you feel differently about it then have at it... 

geez, talk about being ostracized for giving your opinion...

By the way, if you read the initial post, you'll see that this is not a djent worship thread, but a thread discussing the merits of bands that resemble Meshuggah.


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## Customisbetter (May 11, 2010)

What is the problem with being meshuggah? Do you see people bitching about the guitarist of The Strokes being Joe Perry? I don't see why internet readers get into a hissy fit when an artist sound similar to another....


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## Randy (May 11, 2010)

I wish we had more djent players in my local scene. Then I'd have more ERG's and high-gains floating around in the local gear pool for me to buy up.


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## Customisbetter (May 11, 2010)

^I might be the only 7 string player in my county.  

Also on my last bit and what randy touched on. ITs fucking similarity man! You don't walk into a crowded bar and go,

"Wow that guy shares the same interests as me. What a tool."

Then troll his Facebook page. Get some class people.


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## Adriatic (May 12, 2010)

i guess my point is that bands have got to start somewhere before they mature into their own sound/style/genre... and man what better band to start off with than, meshuggah... i think the goal is to evolve yes? i cant wait to hear what my kids listen to and come up with when they grow up..


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## Antimatter (May 13, 2010)

Nobody here would even know what I'm talking about if I called something "djent"


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## auxioluck (May 13, 2010)

eaeolian said:


> It's SS.org. Every thread eventually ends in something about Periphery.



This. 

I've found a lack of creativity in music over the last few years. What makes me sad is that when a creative band comes out like Periphery, Meshuggah, AAL, etc., a lot of people don't use it as creative inspiration to make something original, they tend to simply go, "Well, here's what it would sound like if *I* played it!"

It depresses me that I really had hope for the "Djent" genre, or not-genre, or sub-genre, or whatever. Now, I'm losing faith quickly. But it's not due to the originators, it's due to the musicians coming down the line. Everyone bitched about how all metalcore started to sound the same, and everyone jumped on the "djent" bandwagon when it came around because it was still fresh. Now, it's turning into the same overplayed stuff we were all complaining about 2 years ago.

I'm still interested to see if/how the "djent" phase progresses. It's new now, and it's a break from your run-of-the-mill metal...but I think it'll be ruined by the musicians that would rather sound like it than utilize it to create something original.

.....And that is the first and last time I will ever include myself in a "djent argument."


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (May 13, 2010)

So far, I've not heard nearly as many "djent" bands as I have bands in most other sub-genres of music. We have a high concentration of players who like that style of music on this board, if there are people who are truly getting tired of "djent" then my suggestion is that those people take some time away from the internet for awhile or at least this site in particular and see how often you run into "djent" bands then.


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## Detuned0 (May 14, 2010)

If it wasn't for this board I don't think I would even know what "djent" is, I would only hear new bands and say "They sound kinda like Meshuggah" or "They must like Meshuggah".

It's not a bad thing but I guess it depends on who you talk to. Is "djent" a widely used term?


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## Prydogga (May 14, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> You carry your name well- I think you'll find I have no obligation to conform to your point of view. I find this type of thing uninteresting, but if you feel differently about it then have at it...
> 
> geez, talk about being *ostracized for giving your opinion...*
> 
> By the way, if you read the initial post, you'll see that this is not a djent worship thread, but a thread discussing the merits of bands that resemble Meshuggah.



Ostracized for giving your opinion? You basically implied that "djent" bands should not write music because they draw influence from Meshuggah.


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## Acatalepsy (May 14, 2010)

Prydogga said:


> Ostracized for giving your opinion? You basically implied that "djent" bands should not write music because they draw influence from Meshuggah.



No, I said that *I *found it uninteresting, and that *I* feel that Meshuggah is still the best at doing this kind of thing. If you happen to feel differently, then that doesn't bother me in the slightest...


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## Prydogga (May 14, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> No, I said that *I *found it uninteresting, and that *I* feel that Meshuggah is still the best at doing this kind of thing. If you happen to feel differently, then that doesn't bother me in the slightest...



No problem then


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## splinter8451 (May 14, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> *Message to Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... : Meshuggah is still the best at being Meshuggah.*
> 
> I personally find a lot of these clones uninteresting and redundant.



*Message to Acatalepsy: Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... Do not care what you think cause they are not TRYING to BE Meshuggah.*


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## Acatalepsy (May 14, 2010)

Seems like a lot of people here can't handle a different perspective on things, and end up leaving rude feedback...

There's no need to get personal over something like this imo...


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## Scar Symmetry (May 14, 2010)

Acatalepsy said:


> *Message to Periphery, Textures, Xerath etc... : Meshuggah is still the best at being Meshuggah.*
> 
> I personally find a lot of these clones uninteresting and redundant.



I'm actually going to defend this post as I find the fact he was negged for it ridiculous.

Without Meshuggah, those bands wouldn't exist, simple as that it's just a fact. Meshuggah are the best at what they do not only because they invented it but because no one band has managed to scratch the surface of what they actually do. Rather, most Meshuggah-influenced bands ripoff DEI (Mnemic anyone?) and be done with it.

Don't get me wrong, I love all these bands (Xerath especially, they're my bros and Textures because they are fucking awesome) but they owe Meshuggah a lot and none of them are as good at being Meshuggah as Meshuggah are.

I find it insane that some people couldn't take his post objectively and instead chose to push themselves further into a cocoon of ingnorance and by negging him for something that if looked at objectively is just common sense. Coupled with the fact that he used the word 'personally'... the guy was just expressing his opinion for Christ sake. Are people on this forum really that thin skinned?

The amount of fanboyism going on in this thread is disgusting.

Common on guys, let's not alienate new posters


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## Hypothermia (May 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm actually going to defend this post as I find the fact he was negged for it ridiculous.
> 
> Without Meshuggah, those bands wouldn't exist, simple as that it's just a fact. Meshuggah are the best at what they do not only because they invented it but because no one band has managed to scratch the surface of what they actually do. Rather, most Meshuggah-influenced bands ripoff DEI (Mnemic anyone?) and be done with it.
> 
> ...




This whole post is quoted for eternal win.


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (May 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Without Meshuggah, those bands wouldn't exist, simple as that it's just a fact.



It's not simple as that however, you don't know that those bands wouldn't have found a somewhat different style of music to play and still exist.



Scar Symmetry said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love all these bands (Xerath especially, they're my bros and Textures because they are fucking awesome) but they owe Meshuggah a lot and none of them are as good at being Meshuggah as Meshuggah are.



That's because these bands aren't Meshuggah, so naturally they won't sound as "good" as Meshuggah(what is considered to be good is entirely subjective in case you forgot). Does that make these other bands lesser artists or musicians? Not necessarily, as there are other aspects to the music of these other bands that don't apply to Meshuggah, hence they are different, not clones.



Scar Symmetry said:


> I find it insane that some people couldn't take his post objectively and instead chose to push themselves further into a cocoon of ingnorance and by negging him for something that if looked at objectively is just common sense.



Common sense does not equal universal truth. Common sense is relative to one's own experiences. It isn't born within everyone, it is learned, and not everyone contains the same amount.


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## splinter8451 (May 15, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Common on guys, let's not alienate new posters



 he is either going to be alienated for taking the side of the djent fans or for taking the side of the djent haters there is no stopping it on here. 

The comment just annoyed me because none of those bands are trying to be just like Meshuggah and I am sure they all know Meshuggah is the best at being Meshuggah.  it was an unnecessary comment in an already heated thread he could of anticipated becoming flame-bait. 

And rep is not that serious  anyone who posts enough NGD threads will never ever have any chance of actually showing any neg rep. He'll be fine after some new gear


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2010)

TheAceOfSpades1 said:


> It's not simple as that however, you don't know that those bands wouldn't have found a somewhat different style of music to play and still exist.
> 
> That's because these bands aren't Meshuggah, so naturally they won't sound as "good" as Meshuggah(what is considered to be good is entirely subjective in case you forgot). Does that make these other bands lesser artists or musicians? Not necessarily, as there are other aspects to the music of these other bands that don't apply to Meshuggah, hence they are different, not clones.
> 
> Common sense does not equal universal truth. Common sense is relative to one's own experiences. It isn't born within everyone, it is learned, and not everyone contains the same amount.



No-one likes a smartass.

I'm fully aware that said bands might still exist but sound different, but that's not the case is it? So it's irrelevant. These bands exist as they are borrowing heavily from Meshuggah. 

All bands borrow heavily from their influences, some make it harder to hear the influence than others, so I'm not bagging on those bands at all and neither is Acatalepsy. No-one is saying they are lesser artists or musician and no-one is calling them clones either. What I _am_ saying is when the influence is so clear as it is in the mentioned bands, at least _some_ sense of legitimacy is forfeited, as chosen by the bands themselves. It might be what they write naturally, but there's always a choice.

Your condescending post is not appreciated 



splinter8451 said:


> he is either going to be alienated for taking the side of the djent fans or for taking the side of the djent haters there is no stopping it on here.
> 
> The comment just annoyed me because none of those bands are trying to be just like Meshuggah and I am sure they all know Meshuggah is the best at being Meshuggah.  it was an unnecessary comment in an already heated thread he could of anticipated becoming flame-bait.
> 
> And rep is not that serious  anyone who posts enough NGD threads will never ever have any chance of actually showing any neg rep. He'll be fine after some new gear



So you're feeding the fire?

Maybe he didn't read the thread, but he still made a valid point.

As for rep - it's obviously serious enough for people to use it to jump down his throat for something that really didn't warrant the fuss that was made of it.


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## Acatalepsy (May 15, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> All bands borrow heavily from their influences, some make it harder to hear the influence than others, so I'm not bagging on those bands at all and neither is Acatalepsy. No-one is saying they are lesser artists or musicians.



This is true, a lot of those bands are more than competent as musicians, it's purely a creative gripe. Anyway, thanks to the folk who are being reasonable about this!


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## goherpsNderp (May 15, 2010)

Adriatic said:


> i guess my point is that bands have got to start somewhere before they mature into their own sound/style/genre... and man what better band to start off with than, meshuggah... i think the goal is to evolve yes? i cant wait to hear what my kids listen to and come up with when they grow up..



and with as many guitarists out there that are STARTING OFF with 8 strings, engl vaders, and orange cabs.... i can't even imagine what music is going to be like in the next 10, or hell even 5 years. going to be some amazing shit.


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (May 15, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> All bands borrow heavily from their influences, some make it harder to hear the influence than others, so I'm not bagging on those bands at all and neither is Acatalepsy. No-one is saying they are lesser artists or musician and no-one is calling them clones either. What I _am_ saying is when the influence is so clear as it is in the mentioned bands, at least _some_ sense of legitimacy is forfeited, as chosen by the bands themselves. It might be what they write naturally, but there's always a choice.
> 
> Your condescending post is not appreciated



I'm not saying that anyone said that they are lesser musicians, I'm just bringing up a point. However, Acatalepsy did say:


Acatalepsy said:


> I personally find a lot of these *clones* uninteresting and redundant.


Yeah it is his opinion, that's fine, but he _is_ calling them clones.

I don't think it's alien that _some_ people might get upset at statements like that because they love writing and/or playing that style of music, not because they are trying to be someone else, and when they get labeled as clones of someone else it might tick them off a bit, regardless of how heavily inspired they are or aren't by such band/artist.



Adriatic said:


> Meshuggah were once upon a time labled, "Metallica" clones...


This. Let's see how redundant these Meshuggah "clones" still are in 10 years.




Scar Symmetry said:


> No-one likes a smartass.





Scar Symmetry said:


> *False*. I'm starting to think neither of you has listened to either band *properly*, because if you had we wouldn't be having this conversation. It really is as simple as that.





Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm not being rude dude but it's not really up for discussion, it's just a simple *fact*



You're trying to tell me my post was condescending and then you things like this to say? I could have picked out more things you've said but the point is you speak as if you are the be all end all of conversation, that your opinion should be held as fact, when I was trying to point out some fallacies in your _post_ which is perfectly legit in a heated debate, which means you're free to point them out in mine as well.


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## DJENTxCORE901 (May 15, 2010)

Just feel like stressing this.
EVERYONE HAS INFLUENCES.
One of meshuggahs original influences was metallica.
It's obvious. So what? That's how the music world progresses. Every great musician wanted to be like another great musician before him. 
Just like all of the people posting here have influences. Whether it's meshuggah, periphery, the strokes, necrophagist, nickelback, or whatever.
Nothing is onehundred percent original.
But it is dissapointing when people truly copy their influences instead of figuring out how to push it further. That's why more people should get guitar lessons. Too many bands in every genre end up copying their influences. It's not a meshuggah thing only. That may be most noticable on this website.
Acatalepsy, and scar symmetry have compelling points as do many of the people on this thread. But some people are taking too much offense. CHILL


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## Jay Jay (May 15, 2010)

Guys, let's not forget, if it weren't for Black Sabbath, there wouldn't be music at all ever.
Just sayin'.

</troll>


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## MF_Kitten (May 15, 2010)

*waits for someone to defend slavery because it ended up creating the roots for rock music, so this thread can be closed*


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## Soulwomb (May 15, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Show one example of an ATB song and a Meshuggah song that are similar for more than just a small part of the song...
> 
> All I hear from Meshuggah is stuff like this:
> 
> ...


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## Djent As Fook (May 15, 2010)

I just like the grooving. However, I do agree this whole "djent" thing is seemingly becoming redundant and bland.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2010)

TheAceOfSpades1 said:


> You're trying to tell me my post was condescending and then you things like this to say? I could have picked out more things you've said but the point is you speak as if you are the be all end all of conversation, that your opinion should be held as fact, when I was trying to point out some fallacies in your _post_ which is perfectly legit in a heated debate, which means you're free to point them out in mine as well.



Your post was condescending, to the point where I wasn't sure if you were being serious or not... I'm sure that's not how you want to come across.

My earlier posts in this thread I stand by as I firmly believe that anyone that disagrees is just in denial and refuses to budge from their viewpoint as a matter of pride, which I find ridiculous.

I don't care at all for people defending bands from a fanboy POV because it's just not worth it. Like a band, fine, but don't deny where they came from or the bands who influenced them to give them the fuel to get them where they are now, just because it makes them seem _slightly_ less legit.

Oh and you might want to think twice before calling anything in my posts in this thread "fallacies", as I could easily just turn it around and this would turn into into a much more personal argument, which is not what this thread is about.


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## MJS (May 15, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm actually going to defend this post as I find the fact he was negged for it ridiculous.



His post didn't make me cry, and I'm not one of the neg-reppers, but it seemed obvious to me that he was getting a hard time more for how he said it, rather than what he said. It's a risk you take when you post on internet forums.

Otherwise, you (and others) probably would have gotten hammered as well for agreeing with him. 

If I didn't keep to myself (or at least tone down) what I think of a lot of the bands that get worshipped around here, I'd have more




than Metal Ken. 



Scar Symmetry said:


> Without Meshuggah, those bands wouldn't exist, simple as that it's just a fact.



It might be a fact, but isn't it also a fact about every other band and their influences as well? Imagine if every band thread got polluted with the shit that pollutes any thread that can be even remotely linked to a Meshuggah sound. 

The Meshuggah stuff has gotten retarded to the point where if someone posted a picture of himself holding an 8-string, he'd get called a Meshuggah rip without making a sound... _probably by someone that has fantasized about getting double-stuffed by Fredrik & Marten._ 

Coheed & Cambria seem to have some fans here, but I liked them better when they were called Rush. They rip Rush as bad or worse than anyone rips Meshuggah, but there doesn't seem to be a legion of Rush fans dedicating their lives to pointing it out every time they're mentioned. 

Did I just hear a little Bach in Yngwie's playing?  

I'm so afraid that someday I'll get accused of ripping off one of my influences that I've completely stopped using notes A through G#.  



Scar Symmetry said:


> I find it insane that some people couldn't take his post objectively and instead chose to push themselves further into a cocoon of ingnorance and by negging him for something that if looked at objectively is just common sense.



Yeah... but that's just the internet. It's also why many forums either disable the rep system completely, or at least disable the anonymous feature. People have a lot less to say when it's linked to their user name. 

But without really important stuff like green bars, join dates and post count, people would be forced to use their brains and process what they're reading for what it is. 



Scar Symmetry said:


> The amount of fanboyism going on in this thread is disgusting.



When is fanboyism _not_ disgusting?  

The stupidity also flows both ways with it, though. For every fanboy that refuses to hear any Meshuggah influence in bands they like, there's a Meshuggah fanboy that refuses to admit that any of those bands have added their own touches to their music. 





Anyway... I went ahead and solved the mystery of why Meshuggah is the best at being Meshuggah. It turns out that it's because anyone that gives a shit about sounding like them is too busy arguing on internet forums to practice their own instruments and take their own music to another level.


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## Rick (May 15, 2010)

MJS said:


> It turns out that it's because anyone that gives a shit about sounding like them is too busy arguing on internet forums to practice their own instruments and take their own music to another level.



Awesome.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 16, 2010)

MJS said:


> Yeah... but that's just the internet. It's also why many forums either disable the rep system completely, or at least disable the anonymous feature. People have a lot less to say when it's linked to their user name.
> 
> But without really important stuff like green bars, join dates and post count, people would be forced to use their brains and process what they're reading for what it is.
> 
> ...



Jesus Christ dude you're being even more condescending than the other guy. 

If you weren't being so damn rude I might listen to something you have to say. Until then, please kindly refrain from calling me a Meshuggah fanboy, questioning the legitimacy of me sticking up for someone where I saw appropriate and lecturing me on the way the internet works.

It seems to me your post has a lot more to do with you wanting to look clever than actually adding anything to the discussion, seeing as you've taken some of what I said so far out of context that I'm actually questioning if you read my posts at all.

Unbelievable.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 16, 2010)

I'd like to remind people that I'm not pushing forward Meshuggah as the only influence to any of the bands discussed, but the topic is BANDS THAT SOUND LIKE MESHUGGAH, it might be useful to bear that in mind


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## MJS (May 16, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Jesus Christ dude you're being even more condescending than the other guy.
> 
> If you weren't being so damn rude I might listen to something you have to say. Until then, please kindly refrain from calling me a Meshuggah fanboy, questioning the legitimacy of me sticking up for someone where I saw appropriate and lecturing me on the way the internet works.
> 
> ...



Nice rant... but I thought I was agreeing with you--and wasn't calling you a fanboy.  Knowing that now, was there something you quoted that you disagreed with? 

When I asked when fanboyism wasn't disgusting, I meant I agreed with what you said... and expanded it beyond just in this thread. I guess that could be reworded to read, "I agree with you that fanboyism is disgusting, even outside of this thread," if that's any clearer. 

I also wasn't saying you were wrong to defend him, which is why I pointed out you weren't slammed for it like he was... and he probably got the reaction he got of how he said it. Just like how I'm apparently getting backlash for the way I said something.  

But... you have to admit that you do sound a little condescending while telling others they're being condescending... right?


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## Scar Symmetry (May 16, 2010)

Well played 

I read your post the other way man, it seemed to me like you were giving me a lecture, which I obviously didn't take warmly to. I don't know who's fault that was, but I'm very hungover so it's likely to be mine


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## thefpb2 (May 16, 2010)

Champion, haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, djenters write good music, and keyboard warriors live in grandmas basement. STOP COMPARING (COMPLAINING ABOUT) BANDS AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND MUSIC!


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## MJS (May 16, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> but I'm very hungover



Or maybe I just wasn't drunk enough when I posted it... and ended up offending the hungover crowd.


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## vampiregenocide (May 16, 2010)

This thread is what is wrong with metal music nowadays.


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## Necris (May 16, 2010)

thefool said:


> this is stupid. i guess only one band can ever play 8 strings. everyone lets throw our 8 strings out the window.


 I don't believe the fact that the bands use 8 strings has anything to do with his comment, their overall style is what I'm assuming the comment was directed towards.


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## CrushingAnvil (May 17, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> This thread is what is wrong with metal music nowadays.



Yeah.

No.

Pretty much

How about we all just shut our fucking pie-holes? Yarp?


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## Prydogga (May 17, 2010)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Yeah.
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



Narp. Sadly, arguments and threads such as this will always continue.. Can't we all just get along? Is djent _really_ that annoying? I really cannot understand the hatred and disgust at all.


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## CrushingAnvil (May 17, 2010)

Prydogga said:


> Narp. Sadly, arguments and threads such as this will always continue.. Can't we all just get along? Is djent _really_ that annoying? I really cannot understand the hatred and disgust at all.



I fucking hate it but I'm not starting any threads about it any time soon.

It's more fun watching 'Djent' and that kind of progressive stuff become less and less metal


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## Prydogga (May 17, 2010)

CrushingAnvil said:


> I fucking hate it but I'm not starting any threads about it any time soon.
> 
> It's more fun watching 'Djent' and that kind of progressive stuff become less and less metal



I don't see the bad side, I like not metal stuff too, I mean, Casey Sabol used to be (of course) very far in with "djent" or whatever and now his stuff (IMO) is bordering on pop, I still like it. I understand your point though, I hate many bands with a passion and hate hearing their names mentioned in conversation, yet when they pop up in a thread I don't butt in and complain about it.


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## vampiregenocide (May 17, 2010)

I jsut don't understand the big deal about whether a band sounds like someone or not. If you don't like them, then it doesn't matter. If you do, it just means you have more bands of a similar style to appreciate. Obviously if its outright plagarism then its wrong, but I love a lot of nu metal bands, nd its simple music that sounds the same a lot of the time, but I like it so I appreciate it. I don't care if they were all influenced by KoRn or whatever, I just know what I like.

Metal music used to be about doing your own thing, whatever anyone thought. Not necessarily being inventive and out doing yourself, just doing what you want. Nowadays everyone is fussy as hell and abuses the hell out of labels which are just there to give you an indication of what a band sounds like. Someone along the line, metal lost its principles.


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## 777timesgod (May 17, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Metal music used to be about doing your own thing, whatever anyone thought. Not necessarily being inventive and out doing yourself, just doing what you want. Nowadays everyone is fussy as hell and abuses the hell out of labels which are just there to give you an indication of what a band sounds like. Someone along the line, metal lost its principles.



You make a great argument however allow one correction, metal didnt have principles...A few bands did, the rest were out for fame and money and the fans couldnt see past it. There were rules during the 70s and 80s and 90s, but due to the lack of "true" and "kvlt" labels, or they existed and were not as important maybe, they were not visible.

The problem nowadays is that metal decided it needed principles to single itself out of the vast crowd of bands that are getting more and more each day and less and less original. Somewhere along the transition, we are there now btw, there is a problem. In other words a music genre that is against rules almost to the point of anarchy is obsessed with rules almost to the point of fascism. Odd yet true...


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## vampiregenocide (May 17, 2010)

777timesgod said:


> You make a great argument however allow one correction, metal didnt have principles...A few bands did, the rest were out for fame and money and the fans couldnt see past it. There were rules during the 70s and 80s and 90s, but due to the lack of "true" and "kvlt" labels, or they existed and were not as important maybe, they were not visible.
> 
> The problem nowadays is that metal decided it needed principles to single itself out of the vast crowd of bands that are getting more and more each day and less and less original. Somewhere along the transition, we are there now btw, there is a problem. In other words a music genre that is against rules almost to the point of anarchy is obsessed with rules almost to the point of fascism. Odd yet true...


 
I see what you mean actually, I think I worded what I meant wrong. I was just trying to say that people didn't really care so much about a bands influences or intentions musically in the past, it was more about pure music. New ideas were welcomed more, whereas nowadays people get caught up in everything, its getting harder and harder to please people.

But yeah, I agree.


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## filipe200x (Sep 24, 2010)

Chonker said:


> The more forms of metal the better, if something has been inspired by meshuggah and sounds similar then that's fine by me, more music i like to listen to!



I think that's really the case. Not everyone is talented enough to create a new sub-genre of music. 

And also let's face it, meshuggah riffs are nothing new to metal, the ONLY NEW THING meshuggah brought to metal was their weird-in-a-cool-way arrangements.


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## JPhoenix19 (Sep 24, 2010)

....necrobump!

but since this thread got rez'd I guess I'll chime in.



> i think if you play 8s, chances are your going to sound a little bit like meshuggah even though you might not be trying to



Errr, no. I play an 8 and I don't really get into Meshuggah at all. They and Tool are two bands I can only stand in very small doses.

...but since I have an extra high string instead of an extra low one, maybe I don't count.


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## Antimatter (Sep 25, 2010)

Yeah, that's kinda like saying if you play in drop C you're going to sound like metalcore


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 25, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> Yeah, that's kinda like saying if you play in drop C you're going to sound like metalcore



Which 99% of bands that play in drop C do


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 25, 2010)

Djent As Fook said:


> I just like the grooving. However, I do agree this whole "djent" thing is seemingly becoming redundant and bland.



Late to the party, but I spy will my little eye something that begins with Troll 

I was listening to After The Burial in my car the other day and I remembered that somewhere in this thread someone tried to argue that they didn't sound like Meshuggah... needless to say I burst out laughing.


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## Daggorath (Sep 25, 2010)

Every time I read the word "djent" on this forum, I want to do physical harm to whoever concerned. It's just getting way too much, every bloody thread ends up referring to it - mostly by people who don't understand the usage of the word. I hope it dies down pretty soon and I can carry on listening to offtime music in peace without the kids who liked deathcore last year and metalcore the year before ramming that word down my throat.

Ok, I'm a grumpy sod this morning but does no-one else feel this?


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 25, 2010)

Daggorath said:


> Every time I read the word "djent" on this forum, I want to do physical harm to whoever concerned. It's just getting way too much, every bloody thread ends up referring to it - mostly by people who don't understand the usage of the word. I hope it dies down pretty soon and I can carry on listening to offtime music in peace without the kids who liked deathcore last year and metalcore the year before ramming that word down my throat.
> 
> Ok, I'm a grumpy sod this morning but does no-one else feel this?



You've just described the sentiments of 50% of this forum


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## Hypothermia (Sep 25, 2010)

Daggorath said:


> Every time I read the word "djent" on this forum, I want to do physical harm to whoever concerned. It's just getting way too much, every bloody thread ends up referring to it - mostly by people who don't understand the usage of the word. I hope it dies down pretty soon and I can carry on listening to offtime music in peace without the kids who liked deathcore last year and metalcore the year before ramming that word down my throat.
> 
> Ok, I'm a grumpy sod this morning but does no-one else feel this?


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## Peteus (Sep 26, 2010)

I remember when I was reading about what Djent ment which was a heavy tight distorted guitar using 4 strings or more playing very tight cords. However it seams to have become a genre which rarely using this technique and instead uses single explosive notes, poly rhythm using the same heavy bottom end tone and generally mixed in with a bit of technical odd stuff. 
However I guess I like the music however I find the term a bit odd that everybody says that djent bands copied Meshuggah whereas quite a few have taken influence from metalcore, deathcore, math metal thrash and other genres. Who cares what your influence are, people should write music they like and listen to music they want to.
I find that nobody actually sounds like Meshuggah due to the huge lacking in proper death growls and the right kinda feel. Closest was uneven structure with 8 however their is still something missing.
I think give it a few years and djent will the a thing of the past and people will look back on it saying do you remember that tone from the 2010s, like every other tone of past days.
I guess lets stop complaining about it I like Meshuggah, I like some bands from the Djent genre and I like alot of extreme, brutal death metal, metalcore, classical, drum and bass and deathcore and so on.

People who hate djent get over it and just go, oh well and get on with it and stop complaining how is just a phase and its all shitty scene kids, for its not. Guys/gals who get off on djent fucking calm down and listen around to more music and stop cumming over every 23/16 timing for their is other music which you may like and ignore the grumpy "its a all so scene kids" bastards. For everybody who sits in the middle not giving a shit and getting on with your life enjoying music keep it up.


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## Prydogga (Sep 26, 2010)

^ Dude you just said what I've been trying to phrase properly for ages.


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## OwainXerath (Sep 30, 2010)

I've not read this whole thread, so sorry if I repeat anything.

Xerath wouldn't be Xerath if Meshuggah weren't around. It's not their sound that we try to take influence from, but the ethos behind their music. Atonality has a huge place within metal, and you CAN deviate from having a strong first beat. If you can take influence from someone loosely, do, don't just copy them!


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## Varcolac (Sep 30, 2010)

Peteus said:


> For everybody who sits in the middle not giving a shit and getting on with your life enjoying music keep it up.





Indeed. I shall!


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## theowlman666 (Dec 30, 2014)

if you think after the burial sounds like meshuggah youre crazy atb is waaayyy more melodic. now i love both bands. and the similarities are they both tune low as .... as use 8 strings. and are heavy. BUT they do not sound alike at all. listen to nine summers by after the burial than demuirge by meshuggah and tell they sound they same lol


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## jephjacques (Dec 30, 2014)

Barry Manilow is pretty djent IMO


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## theowlman666 (Dec 30, 2014)

haha i use the term as a joke but i never seariously use it bewcause youre right its just metal progression metal. djent is a sound not a genre!


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## guitaardvark (Dec 30, 2014)

Peteus said:


> I remember when I was reading about what Djent ment which was a heavy tight distorted guitar using 4 strings or more playing very tight cords. However it seams to have become a genre which rarely using this technique and instead uses single explosive notes, poly rhythm using the same heavy bottom end tone and generally mixed in with a bit of technical odd stuff.
> However I guess I like the music however I find the term a bit odd that everybody says that djent bands copied Meshuggah whereas quite a few have taken influence from metalcore, deathcore, math metal thrash and other genres. Who cares what your influence are, people should write music they like and listen to music they want to.
> I find that nobody actually sounds like Meshuggah due to the huge lacking in proper death growls and the right kinda feel. Closest was uneven structure with 8 however their is still something missing.
> I think give it a few years and djent will the a thing of the past and people will look back on it saying do you remember that tone from the 2010s, like every other tone of past days.
> ...



Seriously, let's just all be friends.


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## asher (Dec 30, 2014)

Seriously, let's not necro two*four* year old threads as our first two posts.

Did you actually register just to argue about djent?


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## Blood Tempest (Dec 30, 2014)




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## Ben.Last (Dec 30, 2014)

asher said:


> Seriously, let's not necro two year old threads as our first two posts.
> 
> Did you actually register just to argue about djent?



2 years? The last post is from 2010!!


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## asher (Dec 30, 2014)

Ben.Last said:


> 2 years? The last post is from 2010!!



Holy shit brain fail


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## gnarlwinslow (Dec 31, 2014)

I don't get the obsession to sit down and clone your fav band. When I really like a band, it pumps me up to write my own stuff. Not to sit down and learn their song that they made. It seems like all these bands who claim they don't sound like Meshuggah also have YouTube videos of themselves covering like all their songs. Same with the Tosin worship. Grab your sword and cut a head off your own ....ing dragon, don't stay in your basement and play WoW. Be your own awesome band. Necrothreeeaaaddd Scooorrrreeeee.


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## MikeDojcsak (Dec 31, 2014)

The train of thought that I can't seem to follow is that Meshuggah are often labelled "The fathers of djent". However, what seems to be classified as "djent" nowadays sounds nothing like Meshuggah. Meshuggah has weird timings and weird feels and grooves as a result while managing to stay brutally heavy with blasts etc. Definitely a unique sound.

However, the stuff that gets called djent most often is this new open low E, forty nine ghost notes, rung out low E, forty more ghosts notes while the other guitar is playing clean parts with delay -you know, because they want to be "ambient and atmospheric", yawn- and doesn't retain any real similarities to Meshuggah.

It's already been mentioned, but I think it's totally possible to sound like Meshuggah, and totally possible to sound too much like any other band. Innovate, don't emulate.


Edit: Four years, jesus christ. Haha


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