# Second guitar - Black limba/BB/multi-scale 7



## KR250 (Nov 7, 2015)

I recently made my first attempt at doing a custom body with a Jackson neck. Learned a lot from that experience and taking the next step to build a complete custom guitar. I've got most of the materials I need, and a rough outline of the process. I'm creating a template based off one of my existing 8 string guitars which is also multi-scale. The goal is to make my custom 7 play and sound as good as the 8. 

I'm debating between set neck and a bolt on using tee nuts recessed under the fretboard. I'm leaning towards the glue in set neck since most of my guitars are of that type.

Specs:
7 string multi-scale (27"-25.5") - perpendicular fret will be around the 6th fret (.3 on FF2D)
Either bolt on or set neck
Body: Black Limba 
Top: Buckeye Burl 
Fretboard: Birdseye Maple (really debating between this or ebony)
Neck: Birdseye Maple
Bridge: Hipshot solo
Tuners: Hipshot open
Pickups: EMG 81-8x/85-8x or 81-8x/60-8x
Finish: combination of Tru-oil (neck) and wipe on poly for everything else

Here is the wood I've collected so far. I still need to order the hardware.






Couple questions: 


Planning to build the body first, then neck, then on to assembly. Any particular order work better?

For the top, I want to carve it down along the edges down to the base wood for a taper. I believe there are router bits at a 45 deg angle, or is just using a file the best way to achieve this?

I'm still working on perfecting my finishing technique, for the neck I'm going to use Tru-oil, but for everything else I've decided on the clear gloss wipe-on poly. What would be best to use for a wood sealer underneath that?

What is the preferred truss rod for a build like this? My plan is to use a spoke wheel in front of the neck pickup. The only parts I can seem to find are the Stew Mac hot rod which I'm worried will require too deep of a route to keep a thin neck.

Here is my rough outline of steps to try and get the order correct. I still have a few jigs I need to build so those are listed as well. I've found a lot of good info here on the forums on how to build these.

*Body:*

Finish top jig

Build jig for neck pocket

Build jig for top body carve

Rough cut top and body to similar shape

Attach body template

Determine electronic routing and route into body

Glue top to body

Rough cut on band saw to template

Use jig to route to exact shape

route out for pickups

Cut out electronic access on back - figure out how close to the top taper it will sit

Carve tummy cut

Taper top using jig/routing bits/files?

Line up neck template and route neck pocket

Drill for bridge pieces - center on center for correct intonation with nut - I've seen a few schools of thought on this, but planning to follow strings over the template center lines from nut to bridge.

Don't clear coat yet

*Neck:*

Build template to fit into body template

Build scarf joint template

Determine neck length by scale length from nut and to how close neck sits to neck pickup

Measure cut for scarf joint and cut 10 deg on radial saw? Test piece first

Glue scarf joint

Route for truss rod/reinforcement bars - truss rod nut faces down - silicone to prevent vibration

measure string alignment for tuning holes

Cut headstock on band saw to rough shape

If doing bolt on: recess tee nuts under fret board around the truss rod at correct points on the body

Glue on fret board

Slot the fretboard with extra width

Cut neck to exact width

Drill side inlays

Drill tuning holes

Cut/radius neck profile on back

Finish sanding neck and headstock

Radius the fret board

Press in frets/finish fret ends/polish

Wipe on Poly for headstock

Wait for oil or poly on the neck until finish blend sanding during assembly

Cut nut and attach 

*Assembly:*

Mock up pieces above to make sure alignment is correct and correct action/tuning/intonation/neck angle

Blend the seam between neck heel and body by sanding

If set neck, glue in place

Seal the body, clear coat with wipe on poly over entire body/neck - either as 1 piece or separately if bolt on


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## jwade (Nov 7, 2015)

Is that one piece limba body? Goddamn. Where'd you find that and the Buckeye?


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## KR250 (Nov 7, 2015)

jwade said:


> Is that one piece limba body? Goddamn. Where'd you find that and the Buckeye?



It is indeed a single piece of black limba, souced on eBay. I'm quite pleased, the seller even planed it down for me at no charge. Same price I paid for a two piece of alder from Stew Mac on my last attempt. 

The BB was also an eBay purchase, it was the most interesting of what I found so I went for it. I'm going to cut it inverse of what the blue line shows, I think it will look better with the detail below the bridge. 

About $300 for all the wood pictured there. Hopefully I can do it justice.


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## Hywel (Nov 7, 2015)

Sounds like a solid plan!

I like to make the body first but stop before routing the pickups, neck pocket and electronics cavity. I'll move onto the neck next and get that mostly finished (or at least so that is cut to the final size) and use that to make the template for the neck pocket. It's not required but really helps if you end up with a slightly smaller than planned neck or something since the templates made from the finished article rather than the plan. I'd also not do anything involving the bridge until the last moment so you can use the neck, tuners and some strings to ensure it's all lined up properly.

I've found fretting the neck before carving the back is much easier since the flat back is much more stable to press frets into etc... (although you'll probably have to hammer fanned frets since they won't follow a consistent radius over the board)

I think shellac is compatible with pretty much anything when used as a sealer but I've never tried it myself so YMMV.

I REALLY like the Birchwood Casey gun stock wax as a neck finish over the oil. It gives it a bit more protection and makes it feel a bit faster than the oil alone. Ben Eller did a video on youtube detailing the neck oiling process and I tried the wax after watching that. 10 minutes later, every guitar I owned with an oiled neck now has wax as well and I love it. 

Anyway, enough rambling. I love me some buckeye burl so I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.


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## warped (Nov 8, 2015)

This sounds great! I just posted a 'my first attempt at a guitar build thread', and am trying to do something similar to you.. Will great to see how you go about stuff.


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## dankarghh (Nov 8, 2015)

Followingggg.


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## KR250 (Nov 8, 2015)

warped said:


> This sounds great! I just posted a 'my first attempt at a guitar build thread', and am trying to do something similar to you.. Will great to see how you go about stuff.



Very cool, I just read through your post. I'll be following your progress for sure. This my first full attempt at building a guitar, having another fanned fret guitar to model after is helping a lot. I'm also trying to list out the order to help me minimize mistakes. 

I finally finished the body template and now playing around with mocking up the fretfind 2D print out so I can figure out rough spacing on pickups, neck, etc. The neck pickup gets pretty close to the edge.


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## dankarghh (Nov 11, 2015)

Looking cool man. I just read the first post properly. I'd suggest epoxying the .... out of that top if you want a nice flat finish. It's going to look sweet though. I really wanna make my first multi scale but i really don't like soap bar pickups..


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## warped (Nov 11, 2015)

dankarghh said:


> Looking cool man. I just read the first post properly. I'd suggest epoxying the .... out of that top if you want a nice flat finish. It's going to look sweet though. I really wanna make my first multi scale but i really don't like soap bar pickups..



I asked Dan at Oni about angled pickups and he suggested Ethan at Instrumental Pickups (there are a few reviews of his SFTY3 pickups on here) - he does properly custom measured/slanted pickups for a pretty reasonable price - that's what I plan on using when I get that far. Or he does a standard 10 degree slanted pickup a bit cheaper if that's what you are after, but that's prob not angled enough for what I want


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## TamanShud (Nov 14, 2015)

Subbed so I can perv on that burl


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## KR250 (Nov 15, 2015)

A little progress so far, glued the top together and did a rough cut of the body. Hoping to do the finish routing of the body and top shortly, still working out the details on the best way to do this. I also want to cut out the electronics cavity before gluing on the top.

Rough cut on the band saw. This is the back side.





Quick and dirty jig for gluing together the top.





Clamped down.





Sanded down most of it to 220 grit, I think the seam line is decent? Bottom of the picture will be the bottom of the guitar.


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## KR250 (Nov 15, 2015)

dankarghh said:


> Looking cool man. I just read the first post properly. I'd suggest epoxying the .... out of that top if you want a nice flat finish. It's going to look sweet though. I really wanna make my first multi scale but i really don't like soap bar pickups..



Thanks, I'm going to try out a few different finishes to make sure the final product is worthy. I'll definitely try out some epoxy, I'm doing a test at the moment with Shellac and the body wood is requiring many many coats to seal it.


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## dankarghh (Nov 15, 2015)

I'd suggest not cutting the cavity out of the body wood completely man. The burl top isn't the strongest piece of wood so you'd be better leaving at least a bit of body in there.

I ended up gluing a rosewood veneer into the bottom of my last burl cavity for this reason.

PS nice work on the top!


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## KR250 (Nov 15, 2015)

dankarghh said:


> I'd suggest not cutting the cavity out of the body wood completely man. The burl top isn't the strongest piece of wood so you'd be better leaving at least a bit of body in there.
> 
> I ended up gluing a rosewood veneer into the bottom of my last burl cavity for this reason.
> 
> PS nice work on the top!



Great advice, I'll save that part for later. I'm using a 3/8" piece of burl, so I'll still need to thin it for the volume pot and toggle switch, but makes sense to leave some extra strength in there. BTW the EMG wiring kit takes up almost no room so I can have pretty small cavity to house it all.


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## BlackMastodon (Nov 15, 2015)

I really like where this is going. The glue joint looks really good from here.


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## dankarghh (Nov 16, 2015)

warped said:


> I asked Dan at Oni about angled pickups and he suggested Ethan at Instrumental Pickups (there are a few reviews of his SFTY3 pickups on here) - he does properly custom measured/slanted pickups for a pretty reasonable price - that's what I plan on using when I get that far. Or he does a standard 10 degree slanted pickup a bit cheaper if that's what you are after, but that's prob not angled enough for what I want



Got in touch with him last night. I have a few builds planned at the moment, but after that, i'm definitely going to hit him up for a bridge pup and get stuck in. Thanks heaps for the heads up !


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## BIGRIGG (Nov 17, 2015)

The grain on the back side looks really nice man. Can't wait to see the finished build. Cool so far.


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## KR250 (Nov 17, 2015)

Made slightly more progress, taking my time so I don't mess things up. I cut out and then routed the top to my template. next up I'll glue it to the body wood, then use the top that I routed as the template for the body wood using a deeper ball bearing bit and a friends table router. I just need more clamps before I glue it together first, so another trip to home depot before the next step. 

Rough cut of the top, and playing around with sealant/finishing on a scrap piece. Very thirsty wood, but I like the colors that are coming out.





Routed the top, you can see slight seam line at the bottom, but I decided not enough to matter.





One problem area, the backside of the top piece has a gap that I'll need to fill.





Another spot that i'll have to fill or epoxy? 





My pickups also arrived. I went with the EMG 81-8x and 60-8x series. I might have to try out the BKP or SFTY3 slanted pickups on another guitar though, so thanks for the info on those.


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## BlackMastodon (Nov 18, 2015)

Epoxy works well to seal those voids on burl tops. And yeah, burl wood is real thirsty. Looking good so far, man!


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## electriceye (Nov 18, 2015)

Sweet! Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## KR250 (Nov 26, 2015)

A tiny bit more progress, I glued the top to the body and then routed the body using the template router bits. I routed out slots for the pickup wiring to go through before hand (can't find that pic). Still working on sanding out some of the rough spots, but overall not too bad. 

Still debating on exactly how I want to bevel the edges on the front and back. Originally I planned to carve the top down along the edges to show the body wood through around, kind of like a binding. Lots of room for error there, so I may also just leave it alone. Any suggestions?

The back side I'll probably bevel at 45 degrees and then smooth it over, and also include a tummy cut.


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## KR250 (Nov 28, 2015)

A little more progress:

I finished the tummy cut yesterday, traced out some lines, used a hand saw to cut just short of the lines, chiseled out the pieces, then sanded it down. Same process I've seen on another post here, worked great. 











I'm close to the neck building portion so I've been mulling around how to make the compound scarf joint for the multi-scale for a while. I tried to figure out how to use my miter saw but finally gave up once I found a good YouTube video that I thought I'd share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_nMZItvQ1w

Based on this, I built a simple jig for my band saw. I've got some spare 1x2" pine pictured below for my test cuts and did some trial and error. I'll likely cut the actual neck tomorrow. 

The jig just rides in the miter slots, then I screwed in a piece of 1x2 pine at 10 degrees for the tilt, then had to shim the jig up until I got the slant line of the top of the fret template to match the blade. I used some door jam shims to figure out the angle I needed, then cut a piece and attached it to the jig with some dowels.

I'm using my fresh 3/4" blade to try and keep the blade flex to a minimum so the cuts are slightly rough, but pretty straight. 











To get the headstock at the correct angle for the compound joint, I had to jig it up and run it through as well. 





No sanding done, just rough cut to get the process down. When I cut the wood for the neck I'll do some sanding to get it perfectly flush, then run dowels through on the side pieces that will get cut away. 





Comments, feedback, before I cut the actual neck?


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## StarbardGuitar (Nov 30, 2015)

This looks great so far! I love that combination of black limba and buckeye burl, very interesting combo


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## KR250 (Nov 30, 2015)

Made the cuts for the actual neck yesterday, then glued it up. Took the clamps off today and sanded it down a little. Pretty darn close but you can still see a seam line on the top (3rd pic). I need to thin the head stock down though so it'll smooth out, then will cover it. 
















This is what I have leftover from the top, I'll need to get creative and re-glue it if I want to fit it over the head stock and look decent. I have a shape in mind but haven't cut out the template yet. I'll probably have to thin out the buckeye down to a veneer thickness in order to make things work, or try something else using a stain over the maple. Haven't totally decided yet. Open to suggestions.


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## warped (Dec 5, 2015)

Nice job gluing the scarf join together. I got in all kinds of trouble doing mine, ended up trying to put a couple of screws on the edge, which then split away when I tightened them a little. Didn't get my laminate lines to match up perfectly, but I have a piece of laminate in the scarf join to break the lines - will have to do.


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## dankarghh (Dec 6, 2015)

KR250, warped, you should know that you're both directly to blame for my next build.


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## BlackMastodon (Dec 6, 2015)

warped said:


> Nice job gluing the scarf join together. I got in all kinds of trouble doing mine, ended up trying to put a couple of screws on the edge, which then split away when I tightened them a little. Didn't get my laminate lines to match up perfectly, but I have a piece of laminate in the scarf join to break the lines - will have to do.


Use thin nails instead of screws and drill a pilot hole. You just want the pieces to stay together while you are clamping them before the glue sets so they don't have to be in there super tight.


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## Hywel (Dec 6, 2015)

BlackMastodon said:


> warped said:
> 
> 
> > _Nice job gluing the scarf join together. I got in all kinds of trouble doing mine, ended up trying to put a couple of screws on the edge, which then split away when I tightened them a little. Didn't get my laminate lines to match up perfectly, but I have a piece of laminate in the scarf join to break the lines - will have to do._
> ...



My latest favourite method is finding some cheap 2-3mm drill bits, set up the joint, drill the bits in and then remove them from the drill but leave them embedded in the joint. It seemed to disturb the joint less than nails or dowels for me and you can just reverse them or tap them out when you're done.


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## KR250 (Dec 6, 2015)

dankarghh said:


> KR250, warped, you should know that you're both directly to blame for my next build.


Thanks for the comments so far, I blame everyone on here for my new addiction  There are some very inspiring builds going on, or completed.

As much as I like a few of my existing guitars, something just isn't quite right and trying to mod them isn't worth it. I figured I can build at least 5 guitars before I get to the point of what I would have paid for a really nice custom, so I've got another 4 builds to try and get it right 



warped said:


> Nice job gluing the scarf join together. I got in all kinds of trouble doing mine, ended up trying to put a couple of screws on the edge, which then split away when I tightened them a little. Didn't get my laminate lines to match up perfectly, but I have a piece of laminate in the scarf join to break the lines - will have to do.


I used 1/4" dowels for the scarf joint which worked great even though I didn't properly measure out placement and got real close to the head stock. I'll try the drill bit method next time for a smaller footprint. That sounds like the way to go.

A little more progress:

I've noticed that my angle is just slightly off at the nut, ugh. Not enough to make a big difference, maybe a half degree. I can always adjust the fanning angle to match it but it will mostly be hidden by the nut so I'll probably just leave it. I also made the scarf cut with perhaps too much excess at the top, and will be very close on length into the neck pocket. Lesson for next time, or order bass blanks to get more material to work with.

My pickups arrived a while ago, went with EMG 81-8x for the bridge and 60-8x for the neck. I've never tried the 60 before, but have the 81 as well as various x series in my other guitars and have been quite happy with them. 

Hipshot hardware all ordered as well, hopefully will arrive soon so I can finish out mocking up and drawing the head stock design and tuner hole locations. Not going to make any cuts before I have the hardware. I went with the open style tuners, 4 on the bass side, 3 on the treble, and the solo saddles.

In the meantime I've been working on contouring the body, just slightly at the edges. It's slight enough to keep it simple yet enough to provide relief for my picking arm. 





I did about 1 inch around the edges and then draw a line between on the horns to cut to. Totally high tech...





Just a slight carve, still needs some touch up. You can see the line in the neck pocket that I cut down to. 





Rough shape of the head stock. I drew out the string lines to try and line up all the tuners. They are about 1 3/8" spacing between centers. I haven't accounted for how the tuner will offset the string location yet though, so I'll adjust it once I have the hardware. Also still figuring out how I'm going to laminate the top.





Beveled the back side.





Need to fix up a few spots around the horns. Haven't decided if I want to totally round the bevel or keep it somewhat sharp.


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## warped (Dec 6, 2015)

dankarghh said:


> KR250, warped, you should know that you're both directly to blame for my next build.



haha, and your green burled top guitar is reason I stopped thinking about it and started doing it


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## Summer Candra (Dec 8, 2015)

nice top&#65281;


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## KR250 (Dec 16, 2015)

A little more slow progress....

I received the Hipshot hardware along with a few items from StewMac (just ordered more tools for fretting). 






I routed out the truss rod, the router shifted on me slightly and had a fail moment towards the bottom, although it's not too big of a deal as everything is still seated snugly. I need a proper table router or jig to do a better job next time. I'm using the StewMac hot rod with the spoke wheel towards the neck pickup. This makes it about an inch short of my scale length but I haven't been able to find any alternatives yet other than making one. I'm also planning to run carbon rods on either side but haven't routed those yet.






Spoke wheel with a slightly uneven cut, but it has just enough clearance to spin. I think part of this end will be cut off in the neck pocket as it sits right up to the neck pickup. I'll have a notch in the fretboard to allow access, similar to the Bulb Jackson signature model. The fanned frets will make it a bit interesting though...







I found a good scrap piece that I split on my band saw and glued together. I have it sanded now and looks pretty good with just the right amount of dark areas for my taste. I may wait to attach it to the neck until after I finish carving it to make sure I don't have to bin it.


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## KR250 (Dec 31, 2015)

Working on the neck has been slow progress, but getting closer. 

Routed out the carbon rod channels.





Started shaping the back of the neck after thinning it down with the router.





Mock up of the neck with head stock before glue. I didn't tack it down when gluing so it shifted and I re-did the whole thing with a new piece.





New piece glued on, I used staples and cut off the tops for "tacks". This worked out pretty well and didn't shift on me at all. I did the same process for the fret board. I also used a solid piece vs. the split piece I had before and I much prefer not having any seam line. I also flush sanded the top piece to the neck where the nut will sit. It's not perfect but I'll radius it on final sanding. 





Cut and sanded the sides of the fretboard then cut the angle on the neck. I think ideally if I had a longer piece of wood, the angle would extend further back to house the truss rod. 





I used silicone for the ends of the truss rod (scraped it flush later). I realize now (after gluing on the fretboard) that I did not add any glue for the carbon reinforcement  although it did get lots of glue to the fret board. Hopefully that is enough. Those carbon pieces are REALLY snug and next to impossible to take back out even if I de-laminated the fret board. Lesson learned for next time. 





Lining up the center line for the neck pocket. I cut out part of a piece of 1/2" MDF as the router template. Currently the fret board is sits just barely above the body so I have a little room to play with the neck angle.





Routed and neck set in place for mock up. Still playing with the final depth and how far inset it is. I had the joint nice and tight until I cut it further back. Now I'll have to add some really thin shims to get it tight again, but it's really close and the center line is good. 





Hopefully some more progress over the next week. My wife is due with our first son in about 2-3 weeks so I'm really trying to finish this before then!


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## frahmans (Dec 31, 2015)

cool looking headstock and build. congrats on the new baby coming along too


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## JuliusJahn (Jan 2, 2016)

Too late now but Hipshot sells the tuners with the knobs already on!


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## KR250 (Jan 3, 2016)

You mean the buttons already attached? I didn't realize that. I also exchanged the classic open gear for the grip lock open gear tuners (made a mistake when ordering initially). Hipshot was awesome with the exchange. 



JuliusJahn said:


> Too late now but Hipshot sells the tuners with the knobs already on!



Mini-update:

Radiused the fretboard to 16". 220, then 400, then some 800, and finally 1000. Feels awesome, but still figuring out what to finish it with. I'm leaning towards tru-oil/wax combination. Any other suggestions?





Cut out the fret slots over the Fretfind 2D template. I used a thin ruler as my guide, no issues so far. I still need to put in the side fret markers and drill the tuner holes. Hopefully tomorrow, then work on the back of the neck and hopefully not mess that up.


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## JuliusJahn (Jan 3, 2016)

KR250 said:


> You mean the buttons already attached? I didn't realize that. I also exchanged the classic open gear for the grip lock open gear tuners (made a mistake when ordering initially). Hipshot was awesome with the exchange.



Hipshot is one of the better hardware dealers you can do business with these days. Next time order a 6GL0B-XXX (thats the Grip Lock Open Back) where XXX is the tuner knob model, like A02 or P07 etc. make it GLOBT for the treble side tuners. 

As for the board, either commit to an oil/wax finish (after frets are on) or do a clear finish first, polish and buff it, then press the frets in.


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## KR250 (Jan 12, 2016)

Some pictures of progress:

I went the faceting route to carve out the neck. Some measurements of my existing guitars and a bunch of trial and error. It's really close, but still a little thick towards the outer edges so a bit more work needed.





Mock up, the neck pocket is really tight but I had to shim it and still need to contour the neck to body area. I should have gone with a thicker heel for a better contour. Next time.





I sanded down the shim to get the action aligned for the bridge. The ruler line is from the fretboard, so I may need to raise the bridge slightly or decide to bring the angle of the neck down a bit more but it's in the ball park.





Pickup cavities routed, you can see the routed lines I did initially before gluing on the top. Everything lined up nicely here.





Drilled the pilot holes and string ball cavity for the solo bridge saddles. Not perfect, but much better than my first body attempt.





Starting to look like a guitar! 





I need to route out the electronics cavity next, still deciding what to use for a cover. I have a thin piece of maple that will work but it's just a bit short to work with the StewMac templates. Since I'm going EMG active, and only a volume and toggle switch, I probably don't need to hog out that much space for them.

I'm going to do the oil/wax route on the neck and still planning on some sort of gloss for the body, or at least the top and head stock.


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## Spicypickles (Jan 12, 2016)

Very clean work!


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## DistinguishedPapyrus (Jan 12, 2016)

I don't know how I managed to miss this thread, but man it looks solid so far! I wouldn't worry about the carbon rods not being glued properly, if you think about it, the truss rod is not glued in place yet it is still able to perform its function of providing tension on the neck just by being enclosed inside a snug cavity... same idea with the carbon, and what little bit of glue did get in there during the fretboard glue up will ensure full contact over the length of the rods.

Clean work so far though, love the carving on the top!


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## Killemall1983 (Jan 12, 2016)

To me it looks like your bridge saddle is way too high, not too low. You have to compensate the size of the string in the saddle. With the straight edge to the bridge it looks to me like the action would be insanely high.


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## KR250 (Jan 12, 2016)

Killemall1983 said:


> To me it looks like your bridge saddle is way too high, not too low. You have to compensate the size of the string in the saddle. With the straight edge to the bridge it looks to me like the action would be insanely high.



That's a good call.

I'll clarify that the straight edge line is from the fretboard with no frets yet, not where the string will rest. Just a reference point really. For the desired string height and action over the frets the string will rest the height of the frets and desired action above the ruler line. The saddle is loosely matched to that desired height. I haven't maxed out the height adjustment yet, but agree that the saddle would be ideal lower in height.

I don't think it's visible in these pictures, but the bottom of the fretboard is almost resting at the top body line. I still have some room to work with though, and I'll angle the shim some more to get the saddle adjustment lower for the same level of action.

BTW, the saddles are fairly low to begin with. I didn't see any option from Hipshot to get taller versions like you can with the fixed bridges.

Appreciate the feedback, that's why I posed here.


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## GRIZ (Jan 12, 2016)

This is looking effing fantastic


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## pettymusic (Jan 13, 2016)

Love your build man! I'm a sucker for anything with buckeye burl!!!


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## warped (Jan 13, 2016)

Looks like you are doing a great job - how solid do the hipshot solo's seem to you? Do you think you will raise them up a little or do you think once the frets are on the height should be ok?

How are you planning to ground the hipshot bridges? Do you know if they need to be sanded back to metal through the black coating to be grounded? I was thinking about trying to use a string through ferrule block instead of individual ferrules and ground the block but am still undecided.


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## KR250 (Jan 13, 2016)

warped said:


> Looks like you are doing a great job - how solid do the hipshot solo's seem to you? Do you think you will raise them up a little or do you think once the frets are on the height should be ok?
> 
> How are you planning to ground the hipshot bridges? Do you know if they need to be sanded back to metal through the black coating to be grounded? I was thinking about trying to use a string through ferrule block instead of individual ferrules and ground the block but am still undecided.



Thanks! I have some mistakes, but nothing fatal so far. 

I haven't installed the saddles yet, but the screw depth looks good for hitting the body wood through the Buckeye top with is 3/8". I'm going to get more accurate measurements for exactly the height the strings will sit at and make sure the saddles are in a good adjustment range and feel comfortable. I'll probably drop the neck down a bit to get the strings closer to the body. 

I'm not planning to ground the bridge for the electronics I'm using. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read I don't need to ground active electronics. If I were to do that, I can see it would be a bit of a challenge to get each saddle, although could be done through the string end channels. I think the ferrule idea would be better.

I finished routing out the electronics pocket so should have a complete mockup ready within the next few days.


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## warped (Jan 13, 2016)

KR250 said:


> Thanks! I have some mistakes, but nothing fatal so far.
> 
> I haven't installed the saddles yet, but the screw depth looks good for hitting the body wood through the Buckeye top with is 3/8". I'm going to get more accurate measurements for exactly the height the strings will sit at and make sure the saddles are in a good adjustment range and feel comfortable. I'll probably drop the neck down a bit to get the strings closer to the body.
> 
> ...



You're probably right about grounding the bridge/active electronics - I'm learning mostly from posts in this forum  and youtube. I think I might try a string ferrule block made from some type of metal for grounding - or an ebony block with some kind of wiring/ferrule setup (I don't know where I'd get a block of metal and the ability to machine it to size at this stage).


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## KR250 (Jan 17, 2016)

Finished up most of the construction work this weekend. Electronics all routed, drilled out for the string-through ferules, volume knob, switch selector, strap locks, pickups, etc. I also bought a round-over router bit for the backside edges, I really like the feel of it now so calling that part done. 

I started fretting (no pun intended) and finally caved in to order the Stew Mac fret end beveler and fret bender. I got really close with bending by hand, but too hard to get perfect so I'll wait for the new tools to finish up. I'm using just a tiny bit of Tite-Bond to glue them in, most are pretty snug on their own, but one cut was slightly wide and required the glue. Can also see the fret dots I added, one near the top is a little off but most are pretty close. Keeping the fret board clean on this one.






I also started to finish the top of the headstock with a few coats of Shellac. I sanded in between a few coats, and started to look really nice, although I found a few gaps to fill so I bought some Epoxy and filled in all of the deep gaps (same on the body but no pictures of that). Once the Epoxy dries I'll sand down and run a few more coats then add the polyurethane finish. I think I'm going to need some grain filler on the Limba sections though. The rest of the neck will be finished in Tru-oil/wax.





While waiting for everything to dry on the neck/front body, I Shellac'd the back to see how it looks so far. I tried using some Ebony stain sanded back on a few test pieces, but I think the wood looks best without anything else added.


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## StrmRidr (Jan 18, 2016)

Looks great so far! Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## J_Mac (Jan 18, 2016)

I am actually drooling on my iPad screen. 

She looks amazing dude \m/


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## KR250 (Jan 25, 2016)

No pictures this time, I was hoping to have the whole damn thing done by now. After sealing and applying the poly I found a lot of porous areas that needed to be filled so I sanded it all back and used epoxy for the large gaps/cracks, and then grain filler on the back (really helped). I ended up doing the wrong order of applying things and the finish was looking wacky so I sanded back and tried it again, this time with a spray on poly. The spray on wasn't curing in any kind of reasonable time and was still tacky after 24 hours. I sanded back AGAIN, this time just using the Minwax wipe-on with a brush which looks much better than the spray on I tried. Hopefully this comes out decent, In the past attempts I could see where it was starting to shine and could look great. If this doesn't work out I'll sand back again and just do Tru Oil for the finish. I don't want to go the nitro clear coat route again.

Any tips for wipe on Poly? Votes for Tru-Oil instead?


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## pettymusic (Jan 27, 2016)

KR250 said:


> No pictures this time, I was hoping to have the whole damn thing done by now. After sealing and applying the poly I found a lot of porous areas that needed to be filled so I sanded it all back and used epoxy for the large gaps/cracks, and then grain filler on the back (really helped). I ended up doing the wrong order of applying things and the finish was looking wacky so I sanded back and tried it again, this time with a spray on poly. The spray on wasn't curing in any kind of reasonable time and was still tacky after 24 hours. I sanded back AGAIN, this time just using the Minwax wipe-on with a brush which looks much better than the spray on I tried. Hopefully this comes out decent, In the past attempts I could see where it was starting to shine and could look great. If this doesn't work out I'll sand back again and just do Tru Oil for the finish. I don't want to go the nitro clear coat route again.
> 
> Any tips for wipe on Poly? Votes for Tru-Oil instead?




What kind of poly are you using? There are only 2 (Waterbased) that I know of that will get great results, Target Coating SuperClear 9000 WB Interior Polyurethane and General Finishes High Performance Top Coat.

Stewmac has a waterbased finishing schedule as well that can be searched on their site. Searching the web will provide many variations on a good schedule.

The big thing I learned with waterbase is temp and humidity will affect the drying/ curing process. I sprayed a test piece in high humidity and it looked terrible. I have avoided high humidity and have not had any issues yet.

I am about to start the finishing process on my current build. I will be using the Target Coatings this time around to see how that goes.

My plan is to use stewmac's schedule as, it's about the same as on the Target Coating's instructions.


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## warped (Jan 27, 2016)

I tried some test pieces (using a spray on poly, and using minwax wipe on poly - they gloss oil based one). The spray on went on much thicker than the wipe on, so much so that when I wet sanded the wipe on just a little (after 4 coats) I had sanded through it in no time. If you use wipe on put on lots of coats and be very carefull if you try to give it a wet sand at the end before buffing - although I did 'wipe it on' as opposed to brushing it on, brushing would be much thicker.

Did you use the minwax oil or water based poly? Did brushing it on work well (no air bubbles?)


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## dankarghh (Jan 28, 2016)

I've used the waterbased lacquer stuff from stewmac with great results. I've also used auto clear from super cheap auto in rattle cans with great results. I live in north qld and it is like 1000% humidity right now..


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## KR250 (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks for the replies, I'm using the oil based poly's. I tried the spray on Varathane (sp?) and it went on too thick and wouldn't cure properly, and when it did had attracted too many foreign particles. 

I'm using the Min Wax wipe on (I think oil based is all that they offer) in gloss. I've read some posts on other forums and seems that what I'm missing is keeping the coats really thin and wiping off excess after each application, then using something like really fine 1500+ grit sandpaper or 0000 steel wool after several coats have cured overnight. When I applied to much poly, or when I tried the brush it left bubbles that don't easily come out resulting in having to sand back too much. 

I'm going to sand back everything and start over again, this time keeping the epoxy filled pours, some Shellac over the top of that (the poly doesn't adhere well to the epoxy but seems fine with the wax free spray on Shellac), then about 9-12 very thin coats of the Min Wax with a good lint free cloth. I'll do 3 coats a day, wait overnight then very lightly sand and apply 3 more coats until I get to 12 then do the final wet sand/polish. 

I may have to try the Stew Mac water based finish on another project, their NC spray worked well and polished out nicely where I didn't cut through it on my first project. I think the Buckeye Burl is too soft for just an oil coat, so I'll keeping working at the poly until I get it right


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## KR250 (Feb 8, 2016)

Mini update, I re-worked the poly finish and finally have it starting to look decent. I need to add a few more coats tonight to the back side then let it cure for about a week before I'll attempt to polish it. The end grain is looking great and totally smooth without much sanding. I changed my applicator to an old T-shirt and no bubbles or issues now.






Applied the last coats of poly to the head stock, some small surface scratches still but I'll polish it with the rest next weekend. There should be more than enough thickness to get it looking glossy.






I "finished" the fret work, all pressed in, leveled, and ends dressed. The fret bender really helped with eliminating some of the tiny gaps I had when doing it by hand. Everything is leveled as best I can get it, within a few thousands at least. Also applied my first coat of Tru-Oil.






Fret ends not perfect, but consistent at least. I'd love to hear some pointers here.






I also re-carved the back of the neck for the third time. It felt too thick like a fender neck so I got a contour gauge to model it closer to my ESP neck profile. It's still a bit thicker in the middle since the Stew Mac truss rod is rather deep, and I didn't want to risk cutting through. The radius and sides are much much better now though. Next time working on a neck I'll calculate the measurements for faceting using the contour gauge to try and make it go faster. 






I have a few more coats of oil then wax to go on the neck then I'll try and get a mock up this week and hopefully have it finished and polished by next weekend.


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## warped (Feb 8, 2016)

The finish looks great! What are you doing with the neck pocket? Leaving it finished/unfinished (if you are leaving it unfinished how are avoiding getting the poly in there? did you tape it up or will you lightly sand the edges to clean it up when you are finished).

I'm quite a while off finishing - but still planning on doing wipe-on poly. How many coats are you up to in the pics?


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## KR250 (Feb 8, 2016)

I taped over the neck pocket while I applied the poly, for the neck I'm just being careful while applying the Tru Oil. I'll do a light sand over the neck area before I glue it together. 

The top which isn't pictured here has been a challenge, about 12-15 coats at this point with light sanding/steel wool to smooth over the finish. I finally have it a point where I feel like I can polish it but will wait it out a week. For the end pictured it's about the same number of coats, but I did a better job initially sanding the wood so it applied much smoother and with less effort. Good prep work really pays off, as I can see scratches left by 220 grit until there is a thick base built up. 



warped said:


> The finish looks great! What are you doing with the neck pocket? Leaving it finished/unfinished (if you are leaving it unfinished how are avoiding getting the poly in there? did you tape it up or will you lightly sand the edges to clean it up when you are finished).
> 
> I'm quite a while off finishing - but still planning on doing wipe-on poly. How many coats are you up to in the pics?


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## KR250 (Feb 15, 2016)

Well, it's almost complete. I've glued up the neck while I let the poly cure for another 2 weeks before trying to wet sand/buff it. With the neck on, I put all the electronics in and started carving the nut. Strings are on and played it for a bit, sounds great! I still have a few things to deal with though, mostly minor issues. The neck turned out to be a bit fatter than I'm used to, but it I can live with it. I'll probably try and find a shallower truss rod next time or work on some practice necks to see how thin I can actually go for my next project.

Once I strip it back down for the polishing I will need to fix clearance to my input jack inside the cavity (need to remove wood to put on the lock nut on, oops), open up the route for the cover plate (it was tight to begin with and the finish made it tighter). There are also a lot of design improvements I'll work on in my CAD drawings for next time as well, the head stock tuner locations aren't that great. I made some compromises between keeping the strings straight and lining up the tuners to the outside lines.

About 7-8 coats of Tru-Oil on the neck:





Poly with some where between 12-20 coats on and no finish sanding. 





Hardware mocked up for the first time. I used EMG's wiring kit with some soldering for the input jack and toggle switch. EMG 81-8x in the bridge and 60-8x in the neck.





Nut carving in process, the Stew Mac tool works great but has to be angled a bit for the multi-scale. It might not work on a large fan. It currently is at about .0030, to .0015 top to bottom. I'll fine tune it later, but with a little work on setting the action it plays great with very little buzzing. The bridge saddle's are set almost exactly at the center of their adjustment range with just a bit higher in the center strings. 





Put away for the night  





I'll post a final set of pictures once I call it "complete" in a few weeks.


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## electriceye (Feb 15, 2016)

Ridiculous. Such cool job you did. Congrats!


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## KR250 (Feb 15, 2016)

electriceye said:


> Ridiculous. Such cool job you did. Congrats!


Thanks, it's definitely NOT perfect but I'm quite happy for a first all the way through build. That it plays and sounds well is an added bonus. I also know what I need to practice on before the next build (will start a separate thread for that). 

My goal was to build a guitar with the spec's I wanted that only seem to come in a custom shop build. I looked at the price sheet for a Mayones and a multi-scale guitar was somewhere north of $6,000. I don't think this build is at the quality level of an expensive custom like that, but I've put in a little under a thousand worth of parts/wood and the process was fun. I've easily got at least 4-5 more projects to try and really nail it


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## warped (Feb 15, 2016)

Wow - excellent job! The finish looks great. The whole guitar looks great!


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## J_Mac (Feb 15, 2016)

She's tasty!


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## Slaeyer (Feb 16, 2016)

Congrats! That top looks awesome.
I really like how you matched the top on body an headstock with the lower part being dark and the upper bright.


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## neun Arme (Feb 17, 2016)

That's really beautiful.


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## kingo (Feb 17, 2016)

Damn this is an awesome looking guitar.


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## KR250 (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm now calling this project done, to the best of my ability at least. Some mistakes, some flaws, it's not perfect, but it plays and sounds great so I'm happy. 

I waited about 3 weeks to wet sand and polish the finish. I was worried about cutting through so I didn't get super aggressive with the courser sand paper and started at 800 very lightly. I think next time I'll lay on more coats so I can really level it out before the fine grits. I used some micro mesh pads for the final stages which worked reasonably well, and some automotive polish and a lot of elbow grease, and finally a cleaner wax. I've still got some swirls, but the poly finish feels silky smooth and I didn't cut through anywhere except for a small spot on the head stock. I really need some type of mechanical buffer, I just can't get all the swirls out by hand. 

Appreciate for all the feedback on this, it really helped and I've got a lot of ideas to make the next build go even better. 

One of the biggest mistakes I made was on the neck. I routed too far in towards the neck pocket and had cut the whole area down and then use a shim which looks pretty ugly and probably isn't helping with strength. The profile isn't quite right, but totally usable and still very fast to play. I've since cut some mock up pine that feels much better and will use that on the next project. 

Another issue, I didn't route enough material out for the input jack to reach all the way into the cavity, so it's held in by interference currently. You can kind of see it in the pictures of the electronics. 

Overall pretty happy and it's been my "go to" guitar since I put it together. Not quite as good as my ESP E2 Horizon, which is the current bench mark, but pretty close. Hopefully I can hit that mark on the next attempt, and if not I've still got another 3 tries before hitting the $$ mark for an expensive custom  

Anyway, on to the final pictures as I was finishing polishing and putting it back together.












Some swirls still left to try and buff out. 










The back side is just with a light wet sand/buff, mostly just left it as-is from many light coats of poly. 










Ugh.





I stopped short of trying to make the frets look perfect since they already had some wear from playing the last few weeks.










I can't decide how to hang it, the backside looks just as nice as the front.





Comments/critique welcome.


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## dankarghh (Mar 1, 2016)

Lovely stuff man


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## M3CHK1LLA (Mar 1, 2016)

i think you did a great job...looks awesome.

can't wait to see your next build.


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## pettymusic (Mar 1, 2016)

Outstanding work IMO. 

You said it's not perfect but, I've learned they never will be.

Not only have I not built the perfect guitar, I've never even played one, lol!


Really great work, man!


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## Genocyber (Mar 1, 2016)

Looks absolutely amazing! Great effort...


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## J_Mac (Mar 2, 2016)

Dude, she is epic! \m/


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## SlamLiguez (Mar 2, 2016)

Amazing. Makes me have dreams of making guitars!


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## Spicypickles (Mar 2, 2016)

I think the shim looks neat lol


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## shadowlife (Mar 2, 2016)

That top! 
Great job dude.


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## jemfloral (Mar 2, 2016)

Great work, it looks very nice!


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## KR250 (Jul 17, 2017)

Decided to revisit this build after about a year of playing on it. It has a great sound but lacked a few aspects in the build that I've gotten better at. So.... I stripped it back down to nothing and:

Thinned down the neck
Replaced the frets with stainless
carved a much better neck heel
Trimmed the head stock shape
Re-finished in satin poly. The surface prep I did originally left some waviness and I wasn't happy with how the gloss was holding up.
I actually re-did the finish 3 times in the process. First step was applying epoxy as my base and sanding perfectly flat. The epoxy also really brought out a 3D effect in the grain on the limba. Tried gloss poly again and it simply doesn't cure hard enough to buff properly (Minwax). I did a test with buffing just the epoxy which looked great on a small patch, but I couldn't quite get it to the level of shine worthy of a gloss coat. Ended up using satin poly which looks and feels great and is very easy to apply with consistent results. 

Anyway, some updated pictures from the shop.


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## Sir Ibanez (Jul 17, 2017)

Oh, that's awesome, man!


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## pettymusic (Jul 17, 2017)

You just took it up to a whole notha level! 

Awesome! 

What poly finish did you use?

I'm trying to get better at finishing but, keep coming up short on the quality I'm after.


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## KR250 (Jul 17, 2017)

I used Minwax satin poly spray on. Not perfect, but I'm quite pleased with it and was really easy to work with once I got the epoxy sanded and prepped. I built a guitar-rotisserie so I can spin it and apply all at once which really helped. I've already dinged it once already against my desk, ugh. What I noticed is that the ding stops exactly at the epoxy layer, so it's doing it's job at least and shows the poly doesn't cure very hard. 

The finishing on this took about 80% of my time (my least favorite part), hadn't been totally satisfied with my early build finishes and figured this would be a good test bed to get better. 

I bought some 2K clear for doing gloss, but I don't have a good enough ventilation system to use it at home. I might try spray on lacquer for the next gloss job over the epoxy when I re-do my third build.


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## pettymusic (Jul 17, 2017)

KR250 said:


> I used Minwax satin poly spray on. Not perfect, but I'm quite pleased with it and was really easy to work with once I got the epoxy sanded and prepped. I built a guitar-rotisserie so I can spin it and apply all at once which really helped. I've already dinged it once already against my desk, ugh. What I noticed is that the ding stops exactly at the epoxy layer, so it's doing it's job at least and shows the poly doesn't cure very hard.
> 
> The finishing on this took about 80% of my time (my least favorite part), hadn't been totally satisfied with my early build finishes and figured this would be a good test bed to get better.
> 
> I bought some 2K clear for doing gloss, but I don't have a good enough ventilation system to use it at home. I might try spray on lacquer for the next gloss job over the epoxy when I re-do my third build.




I know what you mean. It's absolutely my least favorite part but, I also realize it's an important part of I want the quality I'm after. 

I'm using the emtech waterbased poly at Target Coatings. I like the results I'm getting and easy cleanup now that I have a decent gun. However, like you, I don't have proper ventilation so, I bought a spray shelter from Lee valley stores and plan to try that next. It's basically supposed to be a large tent that pulls airflow to the floor by design. We'll see this week hopefully. I'm moving right now but, trying to get a couple builds complete before we move out totally.


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## J_Mac (Jul 18, 2017)

Absolutely epic dude!


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## Kaff (Jul 19, 2017)

Man this project looks dope!

And it gives me hope since I'm about to embark on a very similar build with very little experience.


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