# Can't choose which bass to use in drop E, help!



## Orgalmer (Apr 10, 2013)

Hey guys, first post so please, forgive me.

I'm in a band that plays on 8 strings in drop E, so naturally I've got my Ibanez SRX 4 tuned down to E. If I'm honest, the tone is pretty shyte, I reckon the main issue is the strings, but I also think the bass may be part of the problem.

I've also got an Ibanez BTB776 which I am thinking of kitting out in drop E, however that bass needs a bit of work because it's got a terribly loud preamp and the pickups I feel are a bit substandard. Anyway, I was wondering if converting the 6 string to a low tuned bass might be better in terms of sound.

For the record, the SRX is 34" scale and the BTB776 is 35". The SRX has EMG pickups, and the BTB776 has Bartolinis. I've already bored out the nut on the SRX, whereas I've got to do that for the BTB776 and there's no turning back after that - apparently another one is fairly costly.

Opinions and suggestions, guys?


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## Winspear (Apr 10, 2013)

Certainly get a Circle K 190 gauge on there, if not heavier (they only work on top loading bridges be warned)

I would prefer to use the BTB because of the extra scale and more strings - 4 strings an octave down would be a bit limiting to me. I have my 5 that way and still miss the high G.

In terms of sound though, either should do well with the right string.


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## Orgalmer (Apr 10, 2013)

Sweet, I actually have a Cort A5 5-string as well which may also work, but I was hoping I could leave this for other tunings.

I'm not sure if you've seen a BTB bridge before, it has individual bridge pieces for each string but I'm pretty sure they're top loading. Has anyone tried out Circle K strings on a 6 going down to E? I have tried that string calculator but I suck at it, that's going to take a while for me to get familiar with.


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## Winspear (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah I use Circle K's on all my instruments. My octave down bass is in F at 35" with a 190 (39.9lbs tension)

The second half of this chart is for 34" scale bass. 

http://circlekstrings.com/CKSIMAGES/CircleKtensionChart130105.pdf

I suggest shooting for 40-42lbs on each string. That actually means a 210 in this case but I'd be happy with the tension of a 200, just, on a 35"


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## Winspear (Apr 10, 2013)

It doesn't look top loading in this pic but I can't find any picture with string ferrules on the rear...Must be


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## axxessdenied (Apr 10, 2013)

I went with a 190 at 34" and I wish I went bigger!!! Tension is almost right but a bit more would be nice!!


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## Winspear (Apr 10, 2013)

^ And you're only in F# right not E?

..Only..


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## Orgalmer (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks a bunch, I've taken your advice and will buy some new strings and see how I go!

Slightly off-topic, does anyone know anything about replacing the preamp in a bass? As I said above I was looking to sub out my stock one and replace it with a better, quieter one. Any ideas?


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## axxessdenied (Apr 10, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ And you're only in F# right not E?
> 
> ..Only..



Yeah.... I'm *ONLY* in F#0


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## cGoEcYk (Apr 11, 2013)

Go with the SRX first and see how you can get the best out of it. If the crazy low tuning rocks and the band seems long term, then perhaps mod the 6-er. 

I'd try working with the BTB in standard too and see which sounds better in the mix. Might have a lil more tone and punch that way. I've always used 5 strings in standard regardless of what the band is in (I play bass vs 7-string in drop B + F# right now). I just dont like guitarists or their wacky tunings dictating what I do. Any tuning lower than B and I start losing tone and mix presence... can't have dat.


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## jonajon91 (Apr 11, 2013)

There is a new Warwic four string bass tuned f# and up. You could just drop the 4th string down, but I would still recommend playing in standard E with the other strings tuned up.


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## TheEmptyCell (Apr 11, 2013)

I would always choose the longer scale instrument to tune down that low.

You could literally get any preamp on the market to put in your bass... Can you explain what you mean by saying that its loud? The BTB series has a good, usable preamp; that said, lots of bass players will recommend either Audere or East.


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## ixlramp (Apr 12, 2013)

Don't worry about the nut on the BTB, nuts are cheap to replace if you screw it up. I had my nut filed out to .165 and afterwards used strings as thin as .045 in that slot with no problems, as long as the nut slot floor retains it's valley-curve the downforce at the nut will centre the string in the slot ... so you will probably have no problems using thinner strings in a wide slot as long as you file the slot carefully and don't change the shape of the nut slot floor (you only need to file back the upper slot walls for a big string).
I have owned 2 BTB 6 strings, they have a top load bridge but the ball ends are inserted down into the saddle and anchored just below the surface of the bass so it appears to be through body when it isn't. The Ball end to saddle distance is the same a standard top load bridge so Circle K Strings will work with a BTB.
I would strongly recommend using the BTB for low tuning, the 35" scale, instrument mass and neck strength will all help with the tone. Being a 6 string there will probably be more saddle adjustment range so more chance of intonating a big .190 string. Also the pickups and electronics are probably more suited to low frequencies.
For drop E you need at least the .182 drop tune set, that will be extra light tension at 30 pounds, heavy tension would be the .232 set at 50 pounds. I would recommend the .182 or .190 since those strings have one less layer of wrap wire than the .200 and up ... therefore will be more flexible and clear.
My suggestion would be the .190 drop tune set which will have a light tension of 33.5 pounds.


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## facepalm66 (Apr 12, 2013)

Drop E is inaudible


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## Winspear (Apr 12, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> Drop E is inaudible



Here's an F# which isn't even close to inaudible
https://soundcloud.com/nolly/nolly-dingwall-afterburner

There are plenty of bassists tuning far below 20hz E. Yes the fundamental may be inaudible, but we hear more by the harmonics. It's surprising how low the fundamental of standard guitar sounds, even.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Apr 12, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Certainly get a Circle K 190 gauge on there, if not heavier (they only work on top loading bridges be warned)
> 
> I would prefer to use the BTB because of the extra scale and more strings - 4 strings an octave down would be a bit limiting to me. I have my 5 that way and still miss the high G.
> 
> In terms of sound though, either should do well with the right string.



Yeah, I saw this, but I couldn't really figure out why it wouldn't be possible for string through guitars. Can you enlighten me?


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## InfinityCollision (Apr 12, 2013)

ixlramp said:


> For drop E you need at least the .182 drop tune set, that will be extra light tension at 30 pounds, heavy tension would be the .232 set at 50 pounds. I would recommend the .182 or .190 since those strings have one less layer of wrap wire than the .200 and up ... therefore will be more flexible and clear.
> My suggestion would be the .190 drop tune set which will have a light tension of 33.5 pounds.


If their website is still accurate on this point, the .182 is the highest gauge three-wrap string they offer.



facepalm66 said:


> Drop E is inaudible



On the verge of audibility would be more accurate, but recordings are usually high-passed above that point anyway. The overtones are a different story if your rig (or the PA ) can accurately reproduce them. Psychoacoustics are key here; a string with good harmonic content will still allow you to "perceive" the fundamental.


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## Winspear (Apr 13, 2013)

YJGB said:


> Yeah, I saw this, but I couldn't really figure out why it wouldn't be possible for string through guitars. Can you enlighten me?




Because the taper of the string would come up behind the saddle, resulting in the thick part of the string being on the saddle. 
That brings you to the tapered vs untapered debate, but that's usually with regards to 130 gauge B strings where either is fine, really. However, I've never seen a super thick string be untapered and I guess there is a reason for that.
I do remember hearing that the thick CK would break if it was used that way - understandable as I can't really imagine bending such a thick string 90 degrees. 
My untapered 145 from Daddario was awkward (and bad sounding) enough and that was purely concerning the angle from the top loading bridge hole to the saddle, let alone string thru. 

I notice you said guitars in your post - maybe you were asking about CKs as a whole as it does say that on their site..A little misleading. I asked Skip and he said it does indeed only apply to the thicker bass strings around 120 up.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Apr 13, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Because the taper of the string would come up behind the saddle, resulting in the thick part of the string being on the saddle.
> That brings you to the tapered vs untapered debate, but that's usually with regards to 130 gauge B strings where either is fine, really. However, I've never seen a super thick string be untapered and I guess there is a reason for that.
> I do remember hearing that the thick CK would break if it was used that way - understandable as I can't really imagine bending such a thick string 90 degrees.
> My untapered 145 from Daddario was awkward (and bad sounding) enough and that was purely concerning the angle from the top loading bridge hole to the saddle, let alone string thru.
> ...



Thanks for the information! I said guitars, but meant every guitar, so also bassguitar. 

But I have seen several times that when the untapered came up after the saddle, the string would buzz. Is this true? I want to put my bassguitar standard in drop A with a .166 on the low A, which should give a nice tension, and I have a Warwick with a top loaded bridge.


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## Dayn (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm probably not of much help, but I use a Circle K .210 at 35" for my low E. I'd maybe go .200 at the lightest, but that's just my preference. It's a four-wrap string, so it's not as snappy as a three-wrap would be...


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## Winspear (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm not sure why that would be YJGB - sounds like the action has not been raised to compensate for the string being lower after the saddle than the others. The 166 for A on the Warwick will be perfect



Dayn said:


> I'm probably not of much help, but I use a Circle K .210 at 35" for my low E. I'd maybe go .200 at the lightest, but that's just my preference. It's a four-wrap string, so it's not as snappy as a three-wrap would be...



Do you know when they become four wrap?


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## Dayn (Apr 13, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Do you know when they become four wrap?


Aye, the tension chart. 'In larger diameters, we make three wrap strings up to .182.' I'm tempted to get a .182 next just to see how it sounds with one less wrap, despite the lower tension.


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## ixlramp (Apr 13, 2013)

InfinityCollision said:


> If their website is still accurate on this point, the .182 is the highest gauge three-wrap string they offer.


Yeah the site says .182 but Skip has told me it's actually .190 now, which is cool because that means CKS can do a standard tension set with a 2 wrap E and a 3 wrap F#.

Sydney Hill organ C00 8 Hz with a 64 foot pipe, can you hear it even with a poor recording and over computer speakers? ...


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## Winspear (Apr 14, 2013)

ixlramp said:


> Yeah the site says .182 but Skip has told me it's actually .190 now



If that's true that's absolutely perfect - both my upcoming basses are moving down to 182. Extra inches and smaller string AND less wraps will be amazing


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## Orgalmer (Apr 16, 2013)

@TheEmptyCell, the preamp has a shit ton of white noise in it. You know when you run high-gain guitar amps, and they hiss? That happens with my bass. No idea why. None of the other instruments I own have the same issue.

Better yet, when I took it back to the dealership they looked it over but kinda just shrugged and said that they can't see what the problem is.

Sigh.


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## Orgalmer (Apr 16, 2013)

> Drop E is inaudible


 
Yes, absolutely, that's why people don't tune below standard.

Oh wait, they do do that.



> For drop E you need at least the .182 drop tune set, that will be extra light tension at 30 pounds, heavy tension would be the .232 set at 50 pounds. I would recommend the .182 or .190 since those strings have one less layer of wrap wire than the .200 and up ... therefore will be more flexible and clear.


 
ixlramp (and everyone else, too) thanks for clearing this up, I really have no idea what to do with regards to modding my gear. I already have my 4 string set up in drop E, and yeah... it's not great. Pretty floppy, and the sound is pretty inconsistent. I reckon it's a combination of the low gauge strings, and the shorter scale length. I'm doing the order of strings today so I'll see how they sound and post an update, hopefully with tasty samples


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## Dayn (Apr 16, 2013)

ixlramp said:


> Yeah the site says .182 but Skip has told me it's actually .190 now, which is cool because that means CKS can do a standard tension set with a 2 wrap E and a 3 wrap F#.


Well, hell. That's just great. I'm totally going for a .190 now for E!


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