# The kiesel K series is on its way



## mbardu (Jan 16, 2016)

Debut at namm in a few days, and some teasers in Instagram in the meantime. 

Looks different enough from the DC series with the bevel (of course  ) at the bottom, new output jack, and new inlays :


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## StrmRidr (Jan 16, 2016)

This might be interesting. As much as I want to like Kiesel/Carvin, there always seem to be something off about all their shapes. Hopefully this one is different.


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## cip 123 (Jan 16, 2016)

Obligatory Bevel comment.


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## ASoC (Jan 16, 2016)

Where is stevexc? There must be a mock-up!


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## technomancer (Jan 16, 2016)

Also we can't get offset dots but we can get a freaking glow in the dark K 

(this is from somebody that is likely going to order a couple of Vaders this year so nothing against the brand...)


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## jephjacques (Jan 16, 2016)

Cautiously excited!


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 16, 2016)

technomancer said:


> Also we can't get offset dots but we can get a freaking glow in the dark K
> 
> (this is from somebody that is likely going to order a couple of Vaders this year so nothing against the brand...)



For what it's worth, the glowing part is simply just a different material. Like abalone, pearl, green, etc. The K is likely also only on this model and not every model, whereas if you want to program offset dots, you need to do it for each and every model.


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## elq (Jan 16, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> ...if you want to program offset dots, you need to do it for each and every model.



Umm. No. The fretboards are cut on CNC on their own -


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 16, 2016)

I like all of Carvin's older pre-Kiesel shapes but absolutely none of the new Kiesel stuff has quickened my pulse even slightly. Really not into the gaudy finishes and the huge bevels... gimme a brightly coloured V220 or a subtle-looking CT any day of the week.


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## technomancer (Jan 16, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> For what it's worth, the glowing part is simply just a different material. Like abalone, pearl, green, etc. The K is likely also only on this model and not every model, whereas if you want to program offset dots, you need to do it for each and every model.



As elq pointed out, same number of frets and same scale length means same program for the inlays on the fretboard across models. Also since it's CNC'ed once the programming is done it should be done and not a monster upcharge for everybody that orders it.


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## Bdtunn (Jan 16, 2016)

I wonder what slight variation of a pre-existing design this will look like....


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## Zerox8610 (Jan 16, 2016)

Really hope that glow in the dark K inlay is optional...


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## ev_o (Jan 16, 2016)

Scott Carstairs from Fallujah already has a K7. Looks like a DC700 with deeper arm contour and beveled sides.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 16, 2016)

^That guitar doesn't have the bevel on the bottom right, though. As do the other K-series stuff I've seen.


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## Hollowway (Jan 16, 2016)

technomancer said:


> Also we can't get offset dots but we can get a freaking glow in the dark K



I'd bet you can get offset little Ks for no extra charge. They're Kiesel Ks in a Keisel offset Kiesel pattern!


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## ev_o (Jan 16, 2016)

It was a while ago so jeff maybe changed some things? I just remembered seeing this on Instagram and see K series or something in the tags.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 16, 2016)

They are called K-series guitars, but they might have been prototypes. Looks like the new one will be significatly different.

Or will just be a DC-series with bevels.  Kiesel isn't hyping this one up as much as the Vader or Aries.


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## mbardu (Jan 16, 2016)

Definitely different from the early ones.

At least a bottom bevel and a rounder bottom with barrel output jack instead of the metal plate.


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## feraledge (Jan 16, 2016)

technomancer said:


> As elq pointed out, same number of frets and same scale length means same program for the inlays on the fretboard across models. Also since it's CNC'ed once the programming is done it should be done and not a monster upcharge for everybody that orders it.



As funny as bevel jokes/realities are and the gigantic holes in the marketing BS are, I really want to get more irritated at Kiesel for just not being as up front and consistent with their responses. But then I go into my tiny bathroom and think, "I could really use a V6 with offset dots in my hands right now." 
I don't asking for consistency and honesty in answers is too much, but maybe I'm crazy.


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## Miek (Jan 16, 2016)

does the K also stand for Kiesel


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## mbardu (Jan 16, 2016)

Miek said:


> does the K also stand for Kiesel



Pretty much, yes

Not sure if sarcasm... Or what I'm missing that it could stand for otherwise


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 16, 2016)

technomancer said:


> Also we can't get offset dots but we can get a freaking glow in the dark K
> 
> (this is from somebody that is likely going to order a couple of Vaders this year so nothing against the brand...)



I've been back and forth on buying a Vader... The lack of a drop top still grinds my gears. I get that it may cost more, but charge me for it... That's why I went with XEN, honestly. I'm not in any way affiliated with that brand. I just like their designs and think Eric is a cool dude. Hopefully I didn't just stir up some sh!t.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 16, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Pretty much, yes
> 
> Not sure if sarcasm... Or what I'm missing that it could stand for otherwise



Stands for...


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## Esp Griffyn (Jan 17, 2016)

I like the way some of these new Kiesels look, but call me old-fashioned if you must, I'd rather I could buy them with "Carvin" on the headstock and not have the Kiesel name anywhere near it.


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## kevdes93 (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm envisioning an Aries with the bevel going around the whole body  we'll see I guess


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## jephjacques (Jan 17, 2016)

Looks like the question is going to be K8 or Aries FF8 for ol' jeph in 2016


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## Matt08642 (Jan 17, 2016)

God, what is Jeff's obsession with bevels?


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## Axayacatl (Jan 17, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> I've been back and forth on buying a Vader... The lack of a drop top still grinds my gears. I get that it may cost more, but charge me for it... That's why I went with XEN, honestly. I'm not in any way affiliated with that brand. I just like their designs and think Eric is a cool dude. Hopefully I didn't just stir up some sh!t.



Back and forth on a V6. They built this just for you http://http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/jbv6


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## Miek (Jan 17, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Pretty much, yes
> 
> Not sure if sarcasm... Or what I'm missing that it could stand for otherwise



the Kiesel Kiesel-series guitar, available with Kiesel Signature inlays


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## Darren James (Jan 17, 2016)

StrmRidr said:


> This might be interesting. As much as I want to like Kiesel/Carvin, there always seem to be something off about all their shapes. Hopefully this one is different.



Your not alone, although some catch my eye, the whole "bevel" thing ruins it for me as far as looks go. That being said, it wouldn't sway me if I liked what I played.


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## Shask (Jan 17, 2016)

kevdes93 said:


> I'm envisioning an Aries with the bevel going around the whole body  we'll see I guess



I dont know why, but I think a DC600 with a Aries type bevel could be a very cool guitar 

The bevels aren't my favorite in terms of looks, but they sure are comfortable when playing!


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## Shask (Jan 17, 2016)

StrmRidr said:


> This might be interesting. As much as I want to like Kiesel/Carvin, there always seem to be something off about all their shapes. Hopefully this one is different.



I have always thought so also, but they are starting to grow on me.

I think the issue is that 70% of them end up fugly because of the specs people come up with. It makes the odd shapes stand out. However, when you see a few good examples I don't mind the body shapes as much. Typically the more plain ones look better to me.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm hoping the bevel is much less extreme. The teaser shot looks good. So long as they don't aeries it up with the figured top, I may be into it. (Minus the K if possible.)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2016)

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## Hollowway (Jan 17, 2016)

Gahtdang that is hot! I may be doing a 180 and wanting that K on my FB!


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## Electric Wizard (Jan 17, 2016)

I gotta say, I really don't get the whole cult of personality with Carvin. They've got a logo on the headstock, are inlays of Jeff Kiesel's initials and his chicken scratch autographs really selling points to people?

To me it's the equivalent of:


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## ferret (Jan 17, 2016)

Electric Wizard said:


> I gotta say, I really don't get the whole cult of personality with Carvin. They've got a logo on the headstock, are inlays of Jeff Kiesel's initials and his chicken scratch autographs really selling points to people?
> 
> To me it's the equivalent of:



I mean. Ignoring the signature, but.... The company name is "Kiesel", so I don't know why the logo and a K inlay would be considered a cult of personality.

ESP does an ESP logo, just to throw an easy one out.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2016)

^ESP's been doing that since the beginning, though. It's pretty much a trademark thing at this point. Carvin has never done that. 

Ever since Jeff took the reigns of the guitar side of things, he's been hammering down on the Kiesel-branded stuff.


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## Electric Wizard (Jan 17, 2016)

ferret said:


> I mean. Ignoring the signature, but.... The company name is "Kiesel", so I don't know why the logo and a K inlay would be considered a cult of personality.
> 
> ESP does an ESP logo, just to throw an easy one out.


ESP does do that, and that's a good counterpoint. However, I don't think they present it as a selling point and it's not an add-on.

Knowing the way things work with Carvin I bet the K inlay is an upcharge, AND I bet people will want to pay it. I guess it's not so much about the company but about the kind of Carvinites that eat it up. Not knocking anyone for liking it, I just don't understand the desire for extra Kiesel branding on the instruments.


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## bloc (Jan 17, 2016)

Knowing these fools I wouldn't be surprised if the guitar was in the shape of a damn letter K


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## monkeysuncle (Jan 17, 2016)

Sooooo it's a RGD? ...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2016)

monkeysuncle said:


> Sooooo it's a RGD? ...



Already did that.


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## Zerox8610 (Jan 17, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Already did that.



Doesn't look anything like an RGD other than it HAS bevels. But okay.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2016)

Zerox8610 said:


> Doesn't look anything like an RGD other than it HAS bevels. But okay.



And is a Superstrat.
And has a fixed bridge.
And is flat black.
And has direct-mount passive pickups.
And has a rosewood fingerboard. 
And is a baritone
And is bolt-on

Sounds a lot like it's trying to be an RGD to me.


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## Señor Voorhees (Jan 17, 2016)

Electric Wizard said:


> ESP does do that, and that's a good counterpoint. However, I don't think they present it as a selling point and it's not an add-on.
> 
> Knowing the way things work with Carvin I bet the K inlay is an upcharge, AND I bet people will want to pay it. I guess it's not so much about the company but about the kind of Carvinites that eat it up. Not knocking anyone for liking it, I just don't understand the desire for extra Kiesel branding on the instruments.



Eh, the K inlay isn't such a big deal. It's not like it's a definitive "K for Kiesel" or anything. It's just a K, and it's a "K series." Again bringing up ESP/LTD, think of it like their 12th fret inlay that says the model. Or the Ibanez K7 with it's extravagant inlay. Can't say it tickles my pickle, but it's an interesting design in that it isn't on everything.


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## MoshJosh (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm hoping that the K series will feature even more bevels, that way I can order an Aries model so beveled that it doesn't even have a top horn!

I kid, I kid!


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## Hollowway (Jan 17, 2016)

Yeah, the other thing ESP doesn't do is have ESP treated FBs, and and ESP edition ESP model. I think the issue isn't so much one or two placements of Kiesel on the guitar, but the fact that you cannot order a Kiesel without saying the name "Kiesel" fiftyleven times. 

It's funny, because I was super enthusiastic about them reintroducing the name Kiesel in the company, and now I feel like it needs to be reigned in some.


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## cip 123 (Jan 17, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And is a Superstrat.
> And has a fixed bridge.
> And is flat black.
> And has direct-mount passive pickups.
> ...



Most 8's are fixed, most 8's come in black, most 8's have direct mount pups, most 8's have rosewood, most are baritone, most are bolt on.

Are all 8's RGD's?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2016)

cip 123 said:


> Most 8's are fixed, most 8's come in black, most 8's have direct mount pups, most 8's have rosewood, most are baritone, most are bolt on.
> 
> Are all 8's RGD's?



If they're beveled and flat black, sure.


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## Five Ten (Jan 17, 2016)

All of those things on top of it having very similar bevels makes it look like an RGD to me. The same way that epiphone explorers and les pauls look like their gibson counterparts, or the many other knock off gibson clones.

For example, this looks just as close to an RGD as an ESP viper looks like a SG. Perhaps I'm missing something, but why take such offense to somebody making a joke about a similar body shape?


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## monkeysuncle (Jan 17, 2016)

The Aries has black inlays though!!!!!!!


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## Hollowway (Jan 17, 2016)

MoshJosh said:


> I'm hoping that the K series will feature even more bevels, that way I can order an Aries model so beveled that it doesn't even have a top horn!
> 
> I kid, I kid!



"Hey, I ordered this K series with a flamed maple top, but it's just got the ash body."

"Yes, that's correct. It DOES have the flamed maple top, but the bevels take it down to the body wood. And we're charging extra for that."

 

(Srsly, I am a Carvin fan, so I hope no one thinks I'm hating on them too much.)


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## cip 123 (Jan 17, 2016)

Five Ten said:


> All of those things on top of it having very similar bevels makes it look like an RGD to me. The same way that epiphone explorers and les pauls look like their gibson counterparts, or the many other knock off gibson clones.
> 
> For example, this looks just as close to an RGD as an ESP viper looks like a SG. Perhaps I'm missing something, but why take such offense to somebody making a joke about a similar body shape?



I personally wasn't taking offence if I'm who you're referring too I just personally don't think it looks anything like an RGD. I always like to post the Schecter C8 Deluxe when an Aries is mentioned. 






Pretty darn similar. Point the horns and its there. Sorry if the pics a bit large, and that I've posted this before somewhere...But it's always worth mentioning.


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## Wildebeest (Jan 17, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And is a Superstrat.
> And has a fixed bridge.
> And is flat black.
> And has direct-mount passive pickups.
> ...



This looks nothing like an RGD, it looks more like a cheap Dean.

Edit: Thought this was a 7 with an inline headstock, so it looks less like a Dean. But it's just not a pretty guitar to me. The design looks careless whereas the lines and contours of the RGD look thought out and calculated.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 17, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Yikes. I hope that was just a test run or something. That's a bit sloppy.


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## mbardu (Jan 18, 2016)

Electric Wizard said:


> I gotta say, I really don't get the whole cult of personality with Carvin. They've got a logo on the headstock, are inlays of Jeff Kiesel's initials and his chicken scratch autographs really selling points to people?
> 
> To me it's the equivalent of:



The reason is that because of what sounds like family feud, they've had to separate the guitars from the "carvin pro audio" company. 
It's probable that they will not be able to keep the carvin name forever, and hence they have to hurry building a "new" kiesel brand. 

Now, about the rgd stuff, carvin obviously takes heavy inspirations from the designs of iconic guitars (although I'd say their bread and butter DC is very well their own thing)...but presenting it as something that Ibanez doesn't do is pretty funny. 

First of all, every builder nowadays has the 'generic superstrat' in their catalog.
And for Ibanez, It's not like they haven't been copying forever, from les paul clones, to semi hollow clones, to more generic superstrats etc. 
In fact it almost looks to me like some of their recent "bevely" forays almost look kiesel-y.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 18, 2016)

mbardu said:


> The reason is that because of what sounds like family feud, they've had to separate the guitars from the "carvin pro audio" company.
> It's probable that they will not be able to keep the carvin name forever, and hence they have to hurry building a "new" kiesel brand.



That actually isn't the case. I think it was maybe a Q&A on YouTube or Facebook, or perhaps a Gear Guys radio show (yeah...that sounds more familiar) where Jeff explained it a bit.

Kiesel has exclusive rights to the Kiesel name for anything they decide to make...even if they decided to make an amp someday. Kiesel Custom Guitars also has the exclusive rights to the Carvin brand name when it comes to instruments (guitars and basses). Carvin Corporation has exclusive rights to use the Carvin name on all amps, pro auto etc...but if they ever decided to release a guitar, they can't use Carvin nor Kiesel. If Kiesel ever decided to come out with an amp, they can't use Carvin, but they can use Kiesel.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 18, 2016)

Axayacatl said:


> Back and forth on a V6. They built this just for you http://http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/jbv6



The link didn't work but if you're talking about that becker themed Vader, I actually talked to them about doing something like that and was told no. Then that thing popped up two weeks later. My only gripe with that is I want it to have more strings. But with that in mind, I'm not sure they make the colorful pickups in a 7 string version yet or if they even will at all. Plus... These aren't my decisions to make in the first place. It's really up to Carvin and if what they're doing is what they like then who am I to judge? I'll just continue spending money on guitars I like/want and let them do what keeps them in business.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 18, 2016)

Looks like it's going to be a sharper, beveled DC series.

So... Looks like the RGD prediction was right.


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## Shask (Jan 18, 2016)

Hmmm..... not sure if I like or not. The horn kinda seems unproportionally small compared to the round part of the body. I would have to see it all to make a judgement though.


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## StrmRidr (Jan 18, 2016)

I can't wait to see the 6 inch wide bevel on the other side


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 18, 2016)

For what it's worth, I'd take a Kiesel over a Prestige RGD anyday 

Probably gonna order a K7 sometime next year.


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## cip 123 (Jan 18, 2016)

Oh wow it still doesn't look like an RGD.

I'm interested to see it, even if it's just a beveled DC or Aries.


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## TGOD (Jan 18, 2016)

I just want to see the entire thing and have Carvin stop teasing me.


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## ferret (Jan 18, 2016)

This comment:
Dennis Reese when will the actual K series reveal be? literally waiting to call and put $ on my DC7x but waited for this lol
Jeff Kiesel Thursday, these models come loaded with options - no base models available so if your looking for a loaded guitar then wait - if your looking for a more basic build then order the DC7X


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## Shask (Jan 18, 2016)

ferret said:


> Jeff Kiesel Thursday, these models come loaded with options - no base models available so if your looking for a loaded guitar then wait - if your looking for a more basic build then order the DC7X



DC600 for me then. 

I don't like guitars that have a bunch of ridiculous looking $hit on them....


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 18, 2016)

Seems silly for a semi custom business to offer a guitar with no base options. Outside signatures, I mean. This would have to have some really interesting specs to get my interest, and I just don't see that happening. Here's hoping they've got more up their sleeves for namm.


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## Bearitone (Jan 18, 2016)

Kind of off topic but, is anyone else sick of overly colorful Carvin/Kiesel builds?

A lot of them are hard to look at lately


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 18, 2016)

Considering you can order whatever finish/color you want, no lol. It's all kind of moot when you realize someone ordered what they want.

Can't wait to play that Frost one! It looks badass.


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## Bearitone (Jan 18, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Considering you can order whatever finish/color you want, no lol. It's all kind of moot when you realize someone ordered what they want.
> 
> Can't wait to play that Frost one! It looks badass.



Very true!

I think its just the colored fretboards everywhere. Really throws me off for some reason


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 18, 2016)

kindsage said:


> Kind of off topic but, is anyone else sick of overly colorful Carvin/Kiesel builds?
> 
> A lot of them are hard to look at lately



Customer ones have been awesome, the ones spec'd by Jeff/Carvin have not been. 

Exhibition pieces are great and all, but at some point it just becomes a caricature.


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## Demiurge (Jan 18, 2016)

kindsage said:


> Kind of off topic but, is anyone else sick of overly colorful Carvin/Kiesel builds?
> 
> A lot of them are hard to look at lately



I agree. On one hand, it's perhaps good for them to show-off how many different options there are available, but including virtually all of them on one instrument can get tacky. Additionally, it almost reaches the point where it's a tad deceptive: a prospective buyer sees one of their pictures of a (for example) gorgeous DC700 and the "sale price" of $949 on the website, only to find that to get something within spitting-distance of one similar is nearly double that price. At least the old Carvin catalogs would show a few variations of a model with maybe a couple upcharged enhancements per for the sake of illustration.


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## Shask (Jan 18, 2016)

kindsage said:


> Kind of off topic but, is anyone else sick of overly colorful Carvin/Kiesel builds?
> 
> A lot of them are hard to look at lately



Yep. I honestly think the best looking ones are the plain, simple ones.

If I order one this year, it will probably be matte flat black.


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## technomancer (Jan 18, 2016)

kindsage said:


> Kind of off topic but, is anyone else sick of overly colorful Carvin/Kiesel builds?
> 
> A lot of them are hard to look at lately



I love bright colored / ridiculous stuff and they have even been too much for me


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## mbardu (Jan 18, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Looks like it's going to be a sharper, beveled DC series.
> 
> So... Looks like the RGD prediction was right.



Love the shape!

Funny, they removed one of the only things that took the prototypes apart from the DC series e.g. the upper fret hand contour.

Is it that they made the whole upper fret access higher altogether?
Sure seems that way with the cutaway barely starting at 23 and going way beyond 24.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 18, 2016)

kindsage said:


> Very true!
> 
> I think its just the colored fretboards everywhere. Really throws me off for some reason



They're usually not done tastefully.


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## laxu (Jan 19, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Customer ones have been awesome, the ones spec'd by Jeff/Carvin have not been.
> 
> Exhibition pieces are great and all, but at some point it just becomes a caricature.



Totally agree. They've made some really ugly examples. Recently they had an Aries 7-string for NAMM with a really beautiful blue flamed maple back, headstock and even flamed maple strips in the back of the neck. Then the front has a hideous yellow edges to blue center burst on it with a blue fretboard. Completely ruined the look of the guitar.

They also really love that buckeye burl. It generally looks like the guitar has some sort of disease unless dyed. Not fond of those dyed fretboards either but they can look good with the right color combination.

On the new model the horn looks too thin but otherwise looks nice. It remains to be seen what kind of bevels they're going to give that one on the forearm contour side.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Jan 19, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> They're usually not done tastefully.



When you dye something knotty, like birdseye maple, you get that messy look. It would look great on plain maple. Imagine a trans black fretboard finished in tung oil. 

He does WAY too much grain enhancing too, and it ends up fighting with the frets.


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## canuck brian (Jan 19, 2016)

Can Jeff stop taking a page out of Sterling Ball's playbook and just show the damn guitar?


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## Spicypickles (Jan 19, 2016)

I DO NOT like those damn "treated" fratboards. Plain, Flamed, Birdseye, whatever, they all look super tacky and just make the entire guitar look trashy.


They remind me of those $80 deans with the painted fretboards.


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## stevexc (Jan 19, 2016)

Spicypickles said:


> I DO NOT like those damn "treated" fratboards. Plain, Flamed, Birdseye, whatever, they all look super tacky and just make the entire guitar look trashy.
> 
> 
> They remind me of those $80 deans with the painted fretboards.



I disagree, I liked those Deans.


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## Spicypickles (Jan 19, 2016)

The hot pink and lime green ones?


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## stevexc (Jan 19, 2016)

Heck yeah, so neon and 80s and tacky in a much more enjoyable way than when Kiesel stains his fretboards.


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## Shask (Jan 19, 2016)

stevexc said:


> Heck yeah, so neon and 80s and tacky in a much more enjoyable way than when Kiesel stains his fretboards.


no


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 19, 2016)

stevexc said:


> Heck yeah, so neon and 80s and tacky in a much more enjoyable way than when Kiesel stains his fretboards.



I didn't wanna say it, but I liked them too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 19, 2016)

Fun fact: those Deans didn't actually have painted fretboards, it was just vinyl stickers/sheeting glued on. If you ever find one that's actually been played you'll see them peeling off.


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## stevexc (Jan 19, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Fun fact: those Deans didn't actually have painted fretboards, it was just vinyl stickers/sheeting glued on. If you ever find one that's actually been played you'll see them peeling off.



So not only does it look better than Kiesel Treatment, it's removable? Bonus!


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 19, 2016)

I liked the fieldy bass that was white, which had a white board I think. I also liked the aesthetics of the blue strings. The only dyed boards I liked from kiesel were the black ones. Kinda looked like figured ebony. Otherwise I think it looks better when the fretboard has some sort of contrast to the guitar. Some of them look pretty on their own, but when it looks seemless from body to headstock, it just looks boring and not nice.


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## ferret (Jan 19, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Otherwise I think it looks better when the fretboard has some sort of contrast to the guitar. Some of them look pretty on their own, but when it looks seemless from body to headstock, it just looks boring and not nice.



I think you sum it up here. It's not the treated board so much as a lack of vision on contrasting colors and design.

I liked the "baked" color they do. I also like the look when they do an emerald green board with evo frets.

It all depends.

Then again, I always pick ebony so.


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## feraledge (Jan 19, 2016)

I actually like the idea of stained fretboards, I think Kiesel just doesn't execute them as well as most companies. Same with their bursting. I think they see what PRS and Mayones do and think they can mock it, but their fades aren't as well done on the most part (there are some they do well, tiger's eye on flamed maple for example).
I mean, who can argue with this:





This on the other hand looks like chaos in a bad way to me: 




I think Jeff overall has a gaudy tendency that I attribute to maybe being some car culture thing that I just don't get. But, really, that's kind of whatever, it's his thing and now his company. 
As someone who loves carved top guitars, I can't hate on bevels much, they are comfortable, it's the cutting tops that I think looks horrible. So having a meh burst on 2/3s of a guitar and then like 5 other things going on, it's just not really for me. 
I'm definitely not anti-Kiesel though, even though they're easy to poke fun at. I just don't get why they've put out so many designs since Jeff took over, but then say they can't be bothered to take the time to program offset dots (a fairly universal option) while offering diamond and huge block inlays that are pretty much a "love/hate" thing. If you're running a semi-custom shop, it seems like potential customers commonly requesting an option would merit doing it. But what do I know. 
I'm just a dude who's kind of thankful that reasonably priced offset dots are an excuse for me to not just go ahead and order a V6 like this even though I'm really, really, really tempted to: 




And I'll go on record saying that I won't be owning any guitars with the K inlay.


----------



## Mattykoda (Jan 19, 2016)

Definitely a deeper bevel cut going to the top horn I just hope the top doesn't get sanded off like the vader and it remains like the K8H


----------



## Spicypickles (Jan 19, 2016)

That PRS is insanely hot, and the fingerboard does look good, but I feel like something as simple as a plain mable fretboard would look better, IMO.


I don't think its as simple as a contrast thing, I just think stained boards are weird looking.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 19, 2016)

ferret said:


> It's not the treated board so much as a lack of vision on contrasting colors and design.



This. 

It's like they go through the online order form and just select the most expensive options for funnsies and run with it.


----------



## Five Ten (Jan 19, 2016)

It is definitely a subjective thing, and contrast is not the only issue I think. I happen to think that more often than not it does not add anything to the guitar. As if it is done just for the sake of doing it and not because it was particularly well thought out. For example, the PRS and Vader above look kind of plain. The colors were added just for the sake of it. There is no contrast and the transition from body to neck just seems boring.

However, the namm promo above looks actually quite nice, at least I think that is dyed. Another example of one that I think looks nice is one of the x220s in the gallery on their website. It is a black front with red painted binding and a red finger board. Not everyone will like it, but I do think it is a good (better?) use of adding color to spice up the visuals and not just for the sake of doing it. 

I am excited to see what they have to offer at namm, and fortunately we do not have long to wait. I am not big on these delayed teaser things. I understand why they are a thing, but I just prefer to find out right away.


----------



## laxu (Jan 19, 2016)

feraledge said:


> I think Jeff overall has a gaudy tendency that I attribute to maybe being some car culture thing that I just don't get. But, really, that's kind of whatever, it's his thing and now his company.
> As someone who loves carved top guitars, I can't hate on bevels much, they are comfortable, it's the cutting tops that I think looks horrible. So having a meh burst on 2/3s of a guitar and then like 5 other things going on, it's just not really for me.



Yeah I agree, the ones he has done tend to be flashy just for the sake of it, kind of a "watch what we can do" thing.



> I just don't get why they've put out so many designs since Jeff took over, but then say they can't be bothered to take the time to program offset dots (a fairly universal option) while offering diamond and huge block inlays that are pretty much a "love/hate" thing. If you're running a semi-custom shop, it seems like potential customers commonly requesting an option would merit doing it. But what do I know.
> I'm just a dude who's kind of thankful that reasonably priced offset dots are an excuse for me to not just go ahead and order a V6 like this even though



The thing is that you actually can get a lot of things but that means either calling or emailing them instead of selecting whatever they offer on the website. So if you wanted offset dots you could probably get it as a special option but you would possibly waive the possibility of returning the guitar in case you don't like it and maybe pay some extra.

I do agree that they should offer all inlay options on all models since building a neck isn't that different for different models. I mean I just ordered an AM7 and it's got offset dots.

I would love to see them streamline their models a bit so that any bolt-on models would have the same slanted heel like the Aries series and could be multiscale as long as you know your bridge options are more limited.


----------



## feraledge (Jan 19, 2016)

^ The upcharge on offset dots is $200 though. They'll do it, but that's way more than I would be willing to pay.


----------



## Yousef (Jan 19, 2016)

I don't know what Jeff if thinking sometimes. I mean, look at this paint job. I call it the "Nut Sack."






Sometimes they almost get it right. This is a good example, except for the exposed body that's a different color on the left-bottom edge.






I'm a fan of solid colors myself.


----------



## kevdes93 (Jan 19, 2016)

Yeah that cotton candy burst is the worst one yet IMO


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 19, 2016)

What in gods name were they thinking with that burst?


----------



## Opion (Jan 19, 2016)

Ok. So I try to avoid the whole aesthetic-bashing that this forum is prone to do, but aside from the whole bevel nonsense, can anyone fill me in on why they're still not doing drop-tops? It just looks like an unfinished guitar, or something that get messed up in a 3d render


----------



## MoshJosh (Jan 19, 2016)

^^^ As far as I know, Jeff said something along the lines of. . . Its not possible so they don't do it.


----------



## rifftrauma (Jan 19, 2016)

I wonder if the new K series will have an inherent design flaw? Then I'll have to ship it back and pay even more money to have a new retrofit nut installed, all at my expense!


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Jan 19, 2016)

MoshJosh said:


> ^^^ As far as I know, Jeff said something along the lines of. . . Its not possible so they don't do it.




Pretty much this. Allegedly the bevel is too extreme and the wood can't be bent along the contour. Others have pointed out that that's not the best excuse since other brands do it just fine.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

Anyone know why when they do a burst on a Vader the burst color stops at the horns? Why doesn't it continue around inside the scoops and up to the neck, like on other models/guitars?


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 20, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Anyone know why when they do a burst on a Vader the burst color stops at the horns? Why doesn't it continue around inside the scoops and up to the neck, like on other models/guitars?



It does though doesn't it?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 20, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Anyone know why when they do a burst on a Vader the burst color stops at the horns? Why doesn't it continue around inside the scoops and up to the neck, like on other models/guitars?



Because thier finishing is about as consistent as Rondo.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Jan 20, 2016)

Crossing my fingers that one of the options on this series is a 27" scale on 6 strings. The Vader is cool but the headpiece prevents using it as a baritone. Would love to see Carvin just offer a 27" scale 6 string.


----------



## Señor Voorhees (Jan 20, 2016)

I wonder if there's any rhyme or reason to it. For what it's worth, the gaudy ones seem to have the awkward burst while the nicer ones have a proper burst. It's gotta be intentional. At least I hope it is.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> It does though doesn't it?



Huh. Yeah, THAT one does, but pretty much all the others do not. Maybe for some reason they don't do it completely on the flamed maple tops? Seems like that's the ones in this thread, anyway.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 20, 2016)

That cotton candy Vader is literally the only Vader I can find on their facebook page with a burst that looks anything like that 
















To list a few..


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

feraledge said:


>



Well, this one was figuratively right above our conversation, so there's this. And iirc the fire burst one was the same way.

I'm not looking for an argument, so I don't really feel like posting back and forth examples of both. I'm just saying, I'm seeing these things and I wonder why. Although I get what you're saying - they're hardly ubiquitous.


----------



## MoshJosh (Jan 20, 2016)

On the models with stained boards I'm thinking they take the middle color straight out to make it sort of flow/look as if the middle color would continue on past the fret board rather than kind of funnel into the board, if that makes any sense at all.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

Dang, MJ, I think you got it! That seems to be the combo, and I bet that is the exact thinking. Now go use your powers to solve crime, or something more useful than answering my mundane questions.


----------



## Bearitone (Jan 20, 2016)

I think the stained fretboards would look fine if the rest of the guitar was plain.

Like... Imagine an all blacked out Vader with a dark, blood-red, stained fretboard and no inlays. 

Awesome right?


----------



## ferret (Jan 20, 2016)

That cotton candy one was supposedly for his wife so. Whatever she wants lol.


As for the K-series:


----------



## kevdes93 (Jan 20, 2016)

Dayum, these are gonna be like 1800$ base


----------



## ferret (Jan 20, 2016)

Honestly I expect it above $2000, because I bet it's "All hand built by Jeff!" and all treated fretboards and so on.

Almost liked a "standardized" Kiesel Edition?


----------



## Señor Voorhees (Jan 20, 2016)

MoshJosh said:


> On the models with stained boards I'm thinking they take the middle color straight out to make it sort of flow/look as if the middle color would continue on past the fret board rather than kind of funnel into the board, if that makes any sense at all.



This is what I was trying to get at but didn't feel like looking back because iPhones suck.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 20, 2016)

Everyday that goes by I want a K7 more and more.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Everyday that goes by I want a K7 more and more.



Musician's Friend has them right now! Go for it!
Ibanez K7 Korn Signature Model 7-String Electric Guitar | Musician&#39;s Friend


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

kindsage said:


> I think the stained fretboards would look fine if the rest of the guitar was plain.
> 
> Like... Imagine an all blacked out Vader with a dark, blood-red, stained fretboard and no inlays.
> 
> Awesome right?



Yep. I agree - there are some really cool things you could do with that. But sticking with the exact color of the body is not particularly interesting to me.


----------



## laxu (Jan 20, 2016)

feraledge said:


> ^ The upcharge on offset dots is $200 though. They'll do it, but that's way more than I would be willing to pay.



Whoah, that's absurdly expensive for drilling a few holes in different places than usual.


----------



## jerm (Jan 20, 2016)

laxu said:


> Whoah, that's absurdly expensive for drilling a few holes in different places than usual.


Because reprogramming a CNC requires a technician from NASA to stop by dude....


----------



## laxu (Jan 20, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Pretty much this. Allegedly the bevel is too extreme and the wood can't be bent along the contour. Others have pointed out that that's not the best excuse since other brands do it just fine.



It's also not like they don't have the equipment to do it. Their Contour C66 has a drop top similar to what other brands have. I'm sure they know best but to me at least the Vader top doesn't look like it couldn't be done. Aries definite could not have a drop top.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 20, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Musician's Friend has them right now! Go for it!
> Ibanez K7 Korn Signature Model 7-String Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend



 I used to have one, that was my 2nd 7 string and I detested the neck profile on it.


----------



## feraledge (Jan 20, 2016)

Maybe there should be a "Best of Kiesel Marketing BS" thread stickied somewhere. Should keep all the other threads down a bit.


----------



## ncfiala (Jan 20, 2016)

Enough with the bevels! The Aries is hideous. It's almost starting to seem like this is a ploy to save money on top woods.


----------



## Señor Voorhees (Jan 20, 2016)

They still use good chunks of top woods, they just destroy most of it for bevels. I think the Aries is a gorgeous guitar, just not with figured tops. Somebody, who I can't remember off the top of my head (sorry, since you're probably in this thread), photoshopped out the bevel where to top ended. It gave a good look at how our brains fill out the design. It looked so insanely asymmetrical and weird, and with a figured top that's kind of what we see. 

The solid colored ones and non-topped ones have always looked nice to me.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

Señor Voorhees;4515066 said:


> They still use good chunks of top woods, they just destroy most of it for bevels. I think the Aries is a gorgeous guitar, just not with figured tops. Somebody, who I can't remember off the top of my head (sorry, since you're probably in this thread), photoshopped out the bevel where to top ended. It gave a good look at how our brains fill out the design. It looked so insanely asymmetrical and weird, and with a figured top that's kind of what we see.
> 
> The solid colored ones and non-topped ones have always looked nice to me.



Ya, that was me. That is indeed the problem I have with the bevel - it makes the top part look really wonky. If you're going to highlight that top part, you'd better make sure the highlighted part looks like a good design/shape. And on the Aries - to my eyes - it doesn't. I think that would be drastically improved if the bevel followed the contour near the arm rest more closely, and ended around the strap button. That way it would at least mimic the opposite side.


----------



## laxu (Jan 20, 2016)

Señor Voorhees;4515066 said:


> They still use good chunks of top woods, they just destroy most of it for bevels. I think the Aries is a gorgeous guitar, just not with figured tops. Somebody, who I can't remember off the top of my head (sorry, since you're probably in this thread), photoshopped out the bevel where to top ended. It gave a good look at how our brains fill out the design. It looked so insanely asymmetrical and weird, and with a figured top that's kind of what we see.
> 
> The solid colored ones and non-topped ones have always looked nice to me.



This is a Photoshop mockup of what I just ordered from Kiesel:






I think it looks alright when you don't have that natural faux binding effect, makes the top look larger. I also actually tried what the guitar would look like if the bevel carve followed the body edge better and it's not really a big difference and would surely make the guitar a bit less comfortable (the whole point of the bevel).


----------



## canuck brian (Jan 20, 2016)

feraledge said:


> Maybe there should be a "Best of Kiesel Marketing BS" thread stickied somewhere. Should keep all the other threads down a bit.



Its over at the Sterling Ball EBMM boards.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 20, 2016)

IT'S SO SHARP


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2016)

I dig that a lot. Way better than the Aries bevel. Alas, it will be too expensive for me, tho.


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## kevdes93 (Jan 20, 2016)

I actually dig it, but I'd have to see one without the colored bevel binding


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## Jonathan20022 (Jan 20, 2016)

It will be mine

Non fanned, 7 string. Oh it will be mine.


----------



## inprognito (Jan 20, 2016)

I love it! It has tastefully done bevels (finally) and the feel of the dc series, and multi-scale optional!


----------



## Señor Voorhees (Jan 20, 2016)

laxu said:


> This is a Photoshop mockup of what I just ordered from Kiesel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That does look a lot nicer, I'll admit. I bypassed it all and went for a solid color. (Cheaper that way too.)

That photo of the k series actually looks really cool. I sorta want one now.


----------



## ferret (Jan 20, 2016)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAxhjezxF97/

Here's one of the non-fanned examples


----------



## SnowfaLL (Jan 20, 2016)

I wonder what kinda bashing people will come up with for this model.


----------



## StrmRidr (Jan 20, 2016)

Much better than the Aries IMO. I'd like to see one without the natural binding effect.


----------



## oversteve (Jan 20, 2016)

SnowfaLL said:


> I wonder what kinda bashing people will come up with for this model.



the horn on the left is too big


----------



## laxu (Jan 20, 2016)

The new pic looks better. Again it seems that natural bevel effect does it no favors, just makes those horns look very thin.


----------



## Taikatatti (Jan 20, 2016)

Looks great, waiting for a good pic of multiscale-7


----------



## rifftrauma (Jan 20, 2016)

New video is up with Jeff showing a few of them off. Not gonna lie the reverse inline headstock on these looks pretty tasty.


----------



## cip 123 (Jan 20, 2016)

Didn't Jeff say they couldn't do drop tops with forearm cuts? That looks like a forearm cut on the K series.

Granted it's less aggressive than the Vader or Aries.


----------



## thrsher (Jan 20, 2016)

i love this much better than the aries all around and its a neck thru which is a huge bonus in my book


----------



## Five Ten (Jan 20, 2016)

I really like the look of these after seeing the video and images. It is a shame that the price will probably be a little too much for me. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised though whenever they decide to let us know what the asking price is. Not gonna lie, one of these with an ebony top is very tempting.


----------



## Shask (Jan 20, 2016)

Hmmmmmm. Not really a fan. The horns look too long/narrow to me. I think it looked better in the first versions where the cutouts were smaller but had a front bevel on them.

Oh well. There is always the DC600/700/800.


----------



## pott (Jan 20, 2016)

A lot of their nice guitars (K series, DC series, and Vader especially...) are neck through. That's a huge deal breaker for me... I ordered an AM6 but would have loved to try a Vader if it were bolt-on.

Here's hoping for more bolted versions of those cool neck through models! Or rather, here's hoping it's what customers want...


----------



## OlisDead (Jan 20, 2016)

I don't like it that much. The horns look weird. Especially the upper one.


----------



## possumkiller (Jan 20, 2016)

Looks like a Conklin. 

Those chopped off tops look stupid on guitars with a flat arm bevel like a soloist or rg shape. On these it looks like you left your fancy figured top guitar laying on top of your natural mahogany guitar lol.


----------



## ASoC (Jan 20, 2016)

I really wanted to like this, but the horns look like they need to start off thicker and then taper down to their final width at the point. Both of them are pretty thin for their full length and it looks kind of strange. Maybe some different options will make it look better? Guess my eventual Kiesel this year is still going to be a Vader


----------



## ferret (Jan 20, 2016)

I like it, but after watching the video I now up my estimate to $2500 base price.


----------



## Zerox8610 (Jan 20, 2016)

oversteve said:


> the horn on the left is too big



It's perfect.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 20, 2016)

Zerox8610 said:


> It's perfect.



Nah. 

I'm hoping they have the longer horn because it's a baritone. The DC7X and DC800 both have longer horns due to balancing issues, at least according to Carvin. Hopefully the standard K6 and K7 (if they're coming) have the standard DC horn length. 

...

Obligatory.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Jan 20, 2016)

I think the horns look fine. They look a little thin, I think, due to the painted binding/bevels, which are tastefully done this time around.


----------



## ShredFever (Jan 20, 2016)

Really, really like it. I ordered my K7 Kiesel Edition several months ago when unbeknownst to me, they were still in (I guess?) prototype phase and didn't have them in the builder. Jeff reached out a few weeks back and told me he'd put the build on hold until he finalized the design. I didn't realize that the design hadn't been finalized, but I'm glad he waited. I really liked the version they had previously, save the lack of a drop top, but Jeff had committed to make mine with the drop top, so I was already eagerly waiting. I think the finished version looks even better. Super stoked to get mine now, and it should ship before the end of the month. 

Anxious to see how mine turned out since i did all woods in natural finish - Buckeye burl top and back, mahogany body, mega-streaked Ebony fretboard, 27in scale Walnut and Mahogany neck, Ebony cavity covers, knobs, TRC, etc. Should be rad, and I think the bevel showing off the natural body wood should look great on mine. 

Now, I am a little peeved that I could have gotten a Multiscale had I waited, but I guess that's how they keep selling me guitars.

Also, I've mentioned it in a couple of other threads, but I've never seen proof of Carvin/Kiesel actually refusing to do a drop top on their beveled models. When I ordered my K7, it had the beveled forearm rest just like the Vader's. I asked Jeff if he'd do a drop top instead and he said yes without a moment's hesitation. They obviously _can_ do them, I just think he has a (clear) preference for the bevel. It's obviously not a standard option in the builder, but I'd imagine they would drop top a Vader if you were willing to pay for it, and agreed to the no return clause. Maybe I'm wrong, but from my experience with them, if it's an option they can do without going full custom, and you'll pay for it, they won't say no. i'd say call and ask before assuming they won't.


----------



## technomancer (Jan 20, 2016)

I like the Vader and Aries in solid colors, but the bevels on the top of this one just make the proportions look off  Not my thing but others seem to be liking it.

Then again it looked good in the video with Jeff holding it 



ferret said:


> I like it, but after watching the video I now up my estimate to $2500 base price.



Betting you're low


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 20, 2016)

It's supposed to be a commemorative guitar, celebrating the 70th anniversary of the brand. Which explains the K inlay.


----------



## jephjacques (Jan 20, 2016)

I like it, also the top on that one -^ is baller as ....


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jan 20, 2016)

Like that one a lot better than the blue one. And I love blue guitars...


----------



## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

I really hope that his means they'll eventually start offering the multiscale on all of their models. Would make sense.

Not too fond of the new model. I kinda like the bevel but those thin looking horns ruin it for me. Would look much better if you could see a bit of the natural color bevel in the cutaways.


----------



## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

ShredFever said:


> Also, I've mentioned it in a couple of other threads, but I've never seen proof of Carvin/Kiesel actually refusing to do a drop top on their beveled models. When I ordered my K7, it had the beveled forearm rest just like the Vader's. I asked Jeff if he'd do a drop top instead and he said yes without a moment's hesitation. They obviously _can_ do them, I just think he has a (clear) preference for the bevel. It's obviously not a standard option in the builder, but I'd imagine they would drop top a Vader if you were willing to pay for it, and agreed to the no return clause. Maybe I'm wrong, but from my experience with them, if it's an option they can do without going full custom, and you'll pay for it, they won't say no. i'd say call and ask before assuming they won't.



Did it cost you extra to get the drop top or are these expensive enough in the first place that they might just throw in some custom options while they're at it?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 21, 2016)

Okay, this looks hot.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 21, 2016)

Yeah, I think what makes it look wonky is when they color the beveled part of the top wood different than the top surface. Then it makes the horns look like they don't taper consistently, and give it a weird shape. That one looks MUCH better. But, alas, it's likely out of my budget.


----------



## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

And this is what it looks like compared to the Aries AM7.





You can notice they've scooped out the horns and the bottom of the body is a bit wider and the waist as well.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 21, 2016)

Nice work, man! That's a cool superimp. It would be neat to see a scaled line drawing of the various models they have superimposed. Now get on it!  No, but seriously, that's neat to see. I definitely like the deep scoops - I wouldn't mind that showing up on other models over time.


----------



## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

The deep scoops don't really improve playability though as the ones on the Aries should be deep enough.


----------



## Millul (Jan 21, 2016)

I like the Aries better...go figure ahahahaha


----------



## OlisDead (Jan 21, 2016)

It looks better in person but it's still not my thing. Anyway, it's another version of the same shape with bevels at different places.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Jan 21, 2016)

Is there a forearm contour? I can't tell from the pics.


----------



## feraledge (Jan 21, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Is there a forearm contour? I can't tell from the pics.



Yes


----------



## jephjacques (Jan 21, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay, this looks hot.



I have a _painful tumescence_


----------



## mbardu (Jan 21, 2016)

Page is up:

Kiesel 70th Anniversary K-Series Guitars | CarvinGuitars.com

And base price is 2649.

Welp, I'm out


----------



## avinu (Jan 21, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Is there a forearm contour? I can't tell from the pics.



I was wondering the same thing. The contour on the black one looks smooth and the green looks like a bevel.


----------



## ShredFever (Jan 21, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Page is up:
> 
> Kiesel 70th Anniversary K-Series Guitars | CarvinGuitars.com
> 
> ...



True, but base price is pretty optioned out, especially considering the list of no charge upgrades (e.g. Buckeye, Ebony, or 4A Koa tops). Not counting my Kiesel Edition, the last three I've ordered from them have cost right around the same amount. Obviously it's still pricey AF, but if you tricked it out to the max, you're still coming out slightly over $3k, which, in the day where it's commonplace enough to see people spending more $4k+ on custom builds and even more exorbitant amounts for PRS/Gibson high end product, is not out of the realm of sanity. Hell, the last Ibanez I bout new was a Prestige and it was $2500...and it's matte black. So I guess it's not that bad, all things considered.

Interesting to see that they've started serialization.


----------



## snowblind56 (Jan 21, 2016)

ShredFever said:


> True, but base price is pretty optioned out, especially considering the list of no charge upgrades (e.g. Buckeye, Ebony, or 4A Koa tops). Not counting my Kiesel Edition, the last three I've ordered from them have cost right around the same amount. Obviously it's still pricey AF, but if you tricked it out to the max, you're still coming out slightly over $3k, which, in the day where it's commonplace enough to see people spending more $4k+ on custom builds and even more exhorbent amounts for PRS/Gibson high end product, is not out of the realm of sanity. Hell, the last Ibanez I bout new was a Prestige and it was $2500...and it's matte black. So I guess it's not that bad, all things considered.
> 
> Interesting to see that they've started serialization.



I get that these new Carvins/Kiesels are still in the realm of what you are paying for everything else out there, but they are no longer the bargain that they used to be. It used to be you saved because you were buying factory direct, but that price break kind of seems to have gone by the wayside, even though there is no distributor/retail store getting their cut.


----------



## mbardu (Jan 21, 2016)

snowblind56 said:


> I get that these new Carvins/Kiesels are still in the realm of what you are paying for everything else out there, but they are no longer the bargain that they used to be. It used to be you saved because you were buying factory direct, but that price break kind of seems to have gone by the wayside, even though there is no distributor/retail store getting their cut.



Haha exactly what I was about to comment. 
Carvin used to be that bargain, Kiesel... Not so much. 

Starting with the Vader, I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled their margins by 'double dipping' that way (skipping the distributors, yet charging more). 

Doesnt take anything away from the guitars' quality... But you just gotta pay more. 

And I mean, it makes sense for them, they're not a charity, so it's only natural to exercise some pricing power for as long as they can.


----------



## TedintheShed (Jan 21, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Page is up:
> 
> Kiesel 70th Anniversary K-Series Guitars | CarvinGuitars.com
> 
> ...



Yeah, for that I would probably get a Mayones


----------



## TedintheShed (Jan 21, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Haha exactly what I was about to comment.
> Carvin used to be that bargain, Kiesel... Not so much.
> 
> Starting with the Vader, I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled their margins by 'double dipping' that way (skipping the distributors, yet charging more).
> ...



But these are custom shop guitars, where normal Carvins are production. That may be the difference, so prices are falling into the same cost range as a result. 

The question is would you rather have a Carvin or a Mayones or Jackson or the like?


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## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> Yeah, for that I would probably get a Mayones



Why are they so popular on this forum? I can dig their body designs but the headstock is not very attractive and neither is the brand name.

The Kiesel doesn't really seem worth it unless you really want a multiscale neckthru. With the carbon fiber rod reinforced necks in all models I don't see much point in laminated necks unless you just like how they look.

A DC-series with similar appointments (though probably not as nicely figured woods) is still only something like $2000.


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## LordCashew (Jan 21, 2016)

I hope he eventually makes a "non-anniversary" version that's a little more barebones and priced accordingly. I really like this shape and the multiscale option, but I'd be just fine with it in a solid color with a one-piece neck, no special attention from Jeff needed (no offense haha). Seems like something like that could be well under $2k.

The KM7 is the first Carvin/Kiesel that has the specs I'd want AND a body shape that I can really gel with. I just don't need all the fancy stuff.


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## mbardu (Jan 21, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> But these are custom shop guitars, where normal Carvins are production. That may be the difference, so prices are falling into the same cost range as a result.
> 
> The question is would you rather have a Carvin or a Mayones or Jackson or the like?



Not sure if sarcasm but all carvin / kiesel are made in the same shop, on the same production lines, through the same cnc, and with the same finishing methods. 

What you do get is a select piece of wood for the top, and things like a standard deep denim finish by Jeff. 

Not a real custom vs production distinction here. If anything this is more standard than most kiesel / Carvins since most options are fixed and you don't have as much flexibility to build your own.


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## ferret (Jan 21, 2016)

It's almost like Jeff made a "standard" Kiesel Edition.


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## boogie2 (Jan 21, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Page is up:
> 
> Kiesel 70th Anniversary K-Series Guitars | CarvinGuitars.com
> 
> ...



Yeah, add a bit of cash and you're in Suhr territory. The other problem is that Carvin's depreciate instantly when you buy them. Other brands (so far) seem to hold on to their value a lot better.

One point of good news is that it looks like they have the CNC work done for the neck-through multiscales. I would guess that means it will be an option on more models soon. If they offered multiscale on a Vader, I'd order one today.


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## mnemonic (Jan 21, 2016)

I like the black one a lot more than the others.

That being said, I think it like the aries better. If they did away with the bevel and gave it a standard strat-style front arm contour, I think it would be a much better liked guitar.


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## laxu (Jan 21, 2016)

mnemonic said:


> If they did away with the bevel and gave it a standard strat-style front arm contour, I think it would be a much better liked guitar.



That's what the Contour C66 or DC-series is really.

I think what Kiesel should promote more is that you can choose different heastocks for most of the models. I like the new headstock on the Aries but half of the ones Kiesel offers are not that great looking.

For some reason the Aries looks better with more than 6 strings.


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## mr coffee (Jan 21, 2016)

Hmmm yeah, I like it, but I don't know if I like it to the tune of three grand. I still think my next would probably be a DC7X or possibly a CS324.

-m


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## Five Ten (Jan 21, 2016)

LordIronSpatula said:


> I hope he eventually makes a "non-anniversary" version that's a little more barebones and priced accordingly. I really like this shape and the multiscale option, but I'd be just fine with it in a solid color with a one-piece neck, no special attention from Jeff needed (no offense haha). Seems like something like that could be well under $2k.
> 
> The KM7 is the first Carvin/Kiesel that has the specs I'd want AND a body shape that I can really gel with. I just don't need all the fancy stuff.



This is what I am hoping for. I really like the way the guitar looks, but having to spend near $3000 just isn't in the realm of a realistic guitar price for me. Since he is going to have a hand in making each one, I don't think they expect to, nor do they want to sell boatloads of them anyway. It is a shame though, because it's a very nice looking design.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Jan 21, 2016)

3 grand for a bad a$$ multi scale with an ebony top? 10/10 would bang.


----------



## big_aug (Jan 21, 2016)

Carvin/Keisel are definitely in the same league quality wise as all the brands other people have listed. They're probably better than a lot of what's out there. They are consistently great. The problem is their resale is just terrible. People don't respect the quality so they won't pay much for them. Not a problem if you keep your guitars. I have a problem and trade .... all the time so I can't do Carvins anymore. 

They look bad ass and are probably amazing instruments.


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## dhgrind (Jan 21, 2016)

im going to throw out there that i like the aries more than the k series.
I only really like the aries multiscale 7 for its looks even with the huge bevel.
The k looks too thin in width but thats only my personal opinion. 
I also don't mind the bolt on neck for the aries. I've owned bolt ons, sets, and thru's like everyone else and its not how the neck is attached, its how far and comfortably you can reach those upper frets that matters to me.

that being said the options are quite nice especially for no upcharge. The base price pretty much means you are crazy if you dont go for an ebony or burl top. So if i were to get one i'd spring for that km7 multiscale with a walnut body and a burl top and no inlays cause that K is ugly.


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## Nlelith (Jan 22, 2016)

TedintheShed said:


> Yeah, for that I would probably get a Mayones


Didn't know that food in US is so expensive  

As for the new K series, I do like them aesthetically, but they are not something that I'm looking for/can afford.


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## LordCashew (Jan 23, 2016)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> 3 grand for a bad a$$ multi scale with an ebony top? 10/10 would bang.



That one is gorgeous. I is the ebony top a no charge option though?

Also - and I do love it, don't get me wrong - does anyone else feel like that particular guitar is Kiesel's take on a Blackmachine? Aesthetically, at least...


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## Petar Bogdanov (Jan 23, 2016)

LordIronSpatula said:


> That one is gorgeous. I is the ebony top a no charge option though?
> 
> Also - and I do love it, don't get me wrong - does anyone else feel like that particular guitar is Kiesel's take on a Blackmachine? Aesthetically, at least...



I don't see the similarity, it's a full-thickness superstrat that's heavy on features. A parker has more in common with a blackmachine than this.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 23, 2016)

That K being a mandatory inlay makes me not even consider these. It just looks so out of place on pretty much everything I'd think to spec out. Never thought I'd say this, but thankfully the A8M is available. 

Also, everyone see the prices on these things? I've bought 8 new Carvins in the last decade and they never even cracked $2200, I wasn't super conservative with the options.

Even with all the K8 upgrades included (black limba body, flamed koa top, fancy multi-lam neck, stainless frets, etc.) an Aries fanned 8 still hits under $2500. Where does that extra ~$600 come from?


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## davedeath (Jan 23, 2016)

Jeff's pockets


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## TGOD (Jan 23, 2016)

better shot of the blue


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## technomancer (Jan 23, 2016)

Man that top bevel just kills the lines of these


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 23, 2016)

technomancer said:


> Man that top bevel just kills the lines of these



The bevel doesn't for me, but the "binding" does.


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## mr coffee (Jan 23, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That K being a mandatory inlay makes me not even consider these. It just looks so out of place on pretty much everything I'd think to spec out. Never thought I'd say this, but thankfully the A8M is available.
> 
> Also, everyone see the prices on these things? I've bought 8 new Carvins in the last decade and they never even cracked $2200, I wasn't super conservative with the options.
> 
> Even with all the K8 upgrades included (black limba body, flamed koa top, fancy multi-lam neck, stainless frets, etc.) an Aries fanned 8 still hits under $2500. Where does that extra ~$600 come from?



That's what I mean - if I spec out a DC600 that I actually like and would play, it comes out to something like $1300...even if I go nuts and spec out a CS624 with a figured top and all the goodies, it's still nowhere even close. I like the ebony top, but I imagine I could get that same ebony top on a walnut DC600 for a price, and I doubt that price would be ~3k.

-m


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## ferret (Jan 23, 2016)

Jeff Tax.


----------



## SDMFVan (Jan 23, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Where does that extra ~$600 come from?



He must price the bevels by the inch.


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## Miek (Jan 23, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That K being a mandatory inlay makes me not even consider these. It just looks so out of place on pretty much everything I'd think to spec out. Never thought I'd say this, but thankfully the A8M is available.
> 
> Also, everyone see the prices on these things? I've bought 8 new Carvins in the last decade and they never even cracked $2200, I wasn't super conservative with the options.
> 
> Even with all the K8 upgrades included (black limba body, flamed koa top, fancy multi-lam neck, stainless frets, etc.) an Aries fanned 8 still hits under $2500. Where does that extra ~$600 come from?


Like I'm not talking .... on the quality of the instruments here, and I understand WHY they're doing it, but the aggression in pushing the Kiesel name so hard is so ....ing laughable at this point. It's ridiculous.


----------



## Yousef (Jan 23, 2016)

Okay, I think I have GAS for this:







That ebony top is hot. A nice unique and classy look compared to most black guitars. 
If I can spec out an AM7 in the same way but without the different colored back wood for less than $1600, I think I know what my next git-fiddle is going to be.


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## olejason (Jan 24, 2016)

There is no way you'll get an ebony top on a guitar for less than $1600 from Kiesel


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 24, 2016)

olejason said:


> There is no way you'll get an ebony top on a guitar for less than $1600 from Kiesel



Yeah, since that's one of the main ways they're trying to get folks to drop big coin on the K Series I doubt they'll even make it available on the other models, not without a ridiculous price bump.


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## potatohead (Jan 24, 2016)

Instead of ebony you can get raw finished ash in black which will get you close, and save a ton of dough. If you don't want be visible grain you can get trans black ash but ask them to make it as dark as possible.


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## Yousef (Jan 24, 2016)

Haha thanks for the reality check guys. I'll look into those options.


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## Warg Master (Jan 24, 2016)

HM... I like the K series, .... that headstock though. I'll get on with the 3X3 pointy headstock! Tiger eye quilted maple... mmmmm... droooool.

oh, and NO inlays...


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## marcwormjim (Jan 25, 2016)

potatohead said:


> Instead of ebony you can get raw finished ash in black which will get you close, and save a ton of dough.



Do you mean to suggest that people pay those upcharges for a purely _cosmetic_ indulgence?! It's all about that ebony-top *tonewood*, man - Or at least according to the guy who re-sold me his! He made a big thread hyping it about a month before he put it in the buy/sell/trade subforum on this and a dozen other boards. You might have heard of him.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That K being a mandatory inlay makes me not even consider these. It just looks so out of place on pretty much everything I'd think to spec out. Never thought I'd say this, but thankfully the A8M is available.
> 
> Also, everyone see the prices on these things? I've bought 8 new Carvins in the last decade and they never even cracked $2200, I wasn't super conservative with the options.
> 
> Even with all the K8 upgrades included (black limba body, flamed koa top, fancy multi-lam neck, stainless frets, etc.) an Aries fanned 8 still hits under $2500. Where does that extra ~$600 come from?



A) K inlay is not mandatory. You can get just dots, or no inlay.

B) the extra $600 I guess is meant to cover the even higher grade figured top than what you can spec online, 7-piece three-wood necks instead of 5-piece two-wood necks, three piece bodies, wood truss rod and Cavity cover.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2016)

spudmunkey said:


> A) K inlay is not mandatory. You can get just dots, or no inlay.
> 
> B) the extra $600 I guess is meant to cover the even higher grade figured top than what you can spec online, 7-piece three-wood necks instead of 5-piece two-wood necks, three piece bodies, wood truss rod and Cavity cover.



Where does it say you can get inlays, but no K? 

Carvin already touts using 4A tops, and the grading system is basically BS anyway. The options, besides ebony, have long since been available, including crazy figured Koa. So two small stringers in the neck and wood instead of plastic covers for almost a grand? 

I also don't like how these aren't going to have set build prices since they're called in orders. Just seems fishy.






You're paying for Jeff to sign his name and give it a special serial number.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 25, 2016)

More uniquely specced than that limited 8 string Misha SIG that everyone was saying was fairly priced. This is cheaper even. Seriously, with ss frets, burled top, and no other upgrades, my Vader was near 2k. Add more multi-ply, weird tops, one guy taking his time (even if only minimally) with each one, the fact that its sort of a collector piece.

I'm too lazy to check for certain, but I'm willing to bet that if you add up just the "no extra charge" options, you'd easily hit $1000.

That said, I hope they eventually release the shape as a normal model. I don't want half of the features, but I really like the shape.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> I'm too lazy to check for certain, but I'm willing to bet that if you add up just the "no extra charge" options, you'd easily hit $1000.



I did check. With all options added to regular, non-K models you're looking at between $500 and $800 more just for the K Series. Some models are a better deal than others, and it's not terrible if you're the type to go for the more gaudy options anyway. This more or less just restricts those who get more simple/classic instruments. 



> That said, I hope they eventually release the shape as a normal model. I don't want half of the features, but I really like the shape.



I think that's why this is so annoying. This is the first Kiesel shape I've seen that doesn't have a glaring aesthetic issue.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think that's why this is so annoying. This is the first Kiesel shape I've seen that doesn't have a glaring aesthetic issue.



They still sell the DC727 with rounded body sides.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2016)

Petar Bogdanov said:


> They still sell the DC727 with rounded body sides.



But not with fanned frets or with 8-strings.


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## Andromalia (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> But not with fanned frets or with 8-strings.



You're becoming typical SSO-jaded material, Max.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2016)

Andromalia said:


> You're becoming typical SSO-jaded material, Max.



Or we can not pretend the DC727 is a 1:1 replacement for this whole new series of guitars.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Or we can not pretend the DC727 is a 1:1 replacement for this whole new series of guitars.



It's not. It needed some credit, because it's a little forgotten nowadays. I will always want an all-walnut DC727 with some sort of built-in antigravity device.


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## LordCashew (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Where does it say you can get inlays, but no K?



Jeff said that was possible in a fb comment thread IIRC. The options were very limited for multiscale.



Chokey Chicken said:


> That said, I hope they eventually release the shape as a normal model. I don't want half of the features, but I really like the shape.



Hear hear!


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 25, 2016)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're paying for Jeff to sign his name and give it a special serial number.



Well, be that as it may, there are 3 main physical differences that don't go away with a dismissive wave of the hand.

Of course wood grading is bull-...., but generally it's still a good way way to differentiate grades from one source. Is PRS's 10-top better than Kiesel's 5A? No way to know...but you can likely be sure that Kiesel's 5A is higher-spec than their own 4A, just as Gibson's 4A is better then their 3A. If they are offering Ebony and buckeye burl tops as a no-upcharge option, it seems like they must be paying more for the 5A maple and 4A Koa, or else they would be charging more for the Ebony (heck, they are charging for black hardware, but not the Ebony top) and buckeye burl.

On A DC600, they charge $260 for a 5-piece maple w/purpleheart neck...I don't think it would be unreasonable to charge another $100-$150 to add more cuts, more glueing, and a 3rd wood.

I don't know what they charge for the wood TRc's, but I believe the hardwood backplates are $50. 

Those differences, then, are at least several hundred dollars more than what you could spec on the online builder, whether you think these options are worth it to you or not.

I may have been incorrect about the K inlays and being able to get only dots. I thought I saw a post from Jeff early on mentioning it, but I can't find it now, and it's not listed on theK series page. But NIN is still an option to get one without a K.

And lastly...ok, so maybe they charge for "Jeff to sign his name." Name a company of their size that wouldn't charge more for one of the owners to personally work on the guitar? Again, it may not carry worth for you, but it does to others, and I'm sure Jeff's salary is higher then other finishers in the factory, so there is cost for his time, whether you think it's worth it or not.

*Don't get me wrong:* I'm perplexed as to why it's not available in their lower-cost specs, and absolutely think it should be...but this is essentially their flagship, which is designed to get attention, and be special...and I don't necessarily think that their price for what they are offering is too rediculous. Too expensive for most folks, including myself, sure....and I've spent more than this on a guitar before (not Kiesel) and I'm a huge Carvin/Kiesel fan. But as of right now, it's not made to be for most folks, which is where I'm disappointed.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 25, 2016)

If I built a DC700 for the same specs I would want out of a K Series, it would be 300$ less than the K Series 7 String I want. With several other free add ons I could take, and a new shape I prefer over the DC700, I don't see the price complaint.

It's a Kiesel for the person who wants a loaded build not for a person who wants a cheap guitar with a solid color. Which they STILL have available just as always on their site. It's their 70th Anniversary Model, and it's not even that expensive. Anniversary models are supposed to be over the top if the industry is to reveal any kind of pattern from other brands (EBMM, Ibanez, etc).

It's not like it's a 2.5k base price Maple Neck/Alder Body design.


----------



## laxu (Jan 25, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> If I built a DC700 for the same specs I would want out of a K Series, it would be 300$ less than the K Series 7 String I want. With several other free add ons I could take, and a new shape I prefer over the DC700, I don't see the price complaint.
> 
> It's a Kiesel for the person who wants a loaded build not for a person who wants a cheap guitar with a solid color. Which they STILL have available just as always on their site. It's their 70th Anniversary Model, and it's not even that expensive. Anniversary models are supposed to be over the top if the industry is to reveal any kind of pattern from other brands (EBMM, Ibanez, etc).
> 
> It's not like it's a 2.5k base price Maple Neck/Alder Body design.



Quite right. That said, I don't really care for this whole exclusive, limited edition thing. Ibanez just released some really fine anniversary swirl JEMs that are going to be so hideously expensive that they'll only end up collecting dust in a guitar store or in the collection of someone with a considerable amount of wealth.

I would've rather seen the K-series as a new standard model with all the usual options. The body is growing on me and I might've even tried to change my Aries build-in-progress to it if it didn't come with such an upcharge. Offer the "Jeff Kiesel experience" version for those who want the absolute finest.


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## bschmidt (Jan 25, 2016)

I'm personally waiting for the Kiesel Kiesel-edition Kiesel Series with special Kiesel Edition inlays shaped like Jeff's face and a special Kiesel treated fretboard that matches his tattoo sleeve. loaded with Kiesel Jeffium pickups, K-shaped knobs, and of course, a 5-way pickups selection system that uses a k shape in lieu of the normal blade layout


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## marcwormjim (Jan 26, 2016)

Tell us about the bevels - I'm picturing a Lays Ruffle or shar pei in guitar form.


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## Pikka Bird (Jan 26, 2016)

bschmidt said:


> I'm personally waiting for the Kiesel Kiesel-edition Kiesel Series with special Kiesel Edition inlays shaped like Jeff's face and a special Kiesel treated fretboard that matches his tattoo sleeve. loaded with Kiesel Jeffium pickups, K-shaped knobs, and of course, a 5-way pickups selection system that uses a k shape in lieu of the normal blade layout





...add some gauge piercings in the horns and an inlaid abalone moustache/goatee combo behind the bridge and you've got me on board.


----------



## Fathand (Jan 26, 2016)

I was reading this topic and wait a minute (going OT here)... wasn't there supposed to be a some sorts of Holdsworth related annoucement during NAMM?!?


----------



## SDMFVan (Jan 26, 2016)

Anybody else think Jeff is taking too much advice from his "artist relations" person?


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## Erockomania (Jan 26, 2016)

The K series is their best attempt. But as usual, there is something off. This time it is the horns. They looked like they were popped in photoshopped and "smudged" longer.

Having said that, I played a few at NAMM and they are fine instruments other than the fret ends. I found them all to not be dressed enough for a custom at that price.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jan 26, 2016)

I played about 20 Kiesels at the booth and didn't notice any protruding frets nor sharp fret ends. I've seen brand new customs past the 5k range with shoddy fretwork, and several brands at NAMM as well with problems like that.

Thinking of a few build ideas on a K series right now, definitely pulling the trigger on one soon.


----------



## feraledge (Jan 26, 2016)

bschmidt said:


> I'm personally waiting for the Kiesel Kiesel-edition Kiesel Series with special Kiesel Edition inlays shaped like Jeff's face and a special Kiesel treated fretboard that matches his tattoo sleeve. loaded with Kiesel Jeffium pickups, K-shaped knobs, and of course, a 5-way pickups selection system that uses a k shape in lieu of the normal blade layout


----------



## spudmunkey (Jan 27, 2016)

Erockomania said:


> The K series is their best attempt. But as usual, there is something off. This time it is the horns. They looked like they were popped in photoshopped and "smudged" longer.



I'm reserving judgement on that until I see more without the flat part of the top being treated as such a contrasting element from the beveled edge of the top. They definitely look better when more of the edge carries the finish from the top, adding to the apparent width of the horn...I'm talking about the lava-stained quilted maple example, and the 'faded black denim" flamed maple one with the blonde stripe...since neither of them have a burst, the beveled edge of the top makes it look like there is wood past the bevel's top edge...and I just realized that it's 4:07 am, and I'm likely rambling and probably not clearly communicating what I mean...


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## Aso (Jan 27, 2016)

Video of Jeff talking about the K6

https://youtu.be/YdlP6laBE-8


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## Erockomania (Jan 27, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I played about 20 Kiesels at the booth and didn't notice any protruding frets nor sharp fret ends. I've seen brand new customs past the 5k range with shoddy fretwork, and several brands at NAMM as well with problems like that.
> 
> Thinking of a few build ideas on a K series right now, definitely pulling the trigger on one soon.



I didn't say it was shoddy. They were fine. I just don't like they way they dress fret ends. They are blocky and not comfy to me.


----------



## narad (Jan 27, 2016)

Aso said:


> Video of Jeff talking about the K6
> 
> https://youtu.be/YdlP6laBE-8



Best gained out sound I can recall hearing from a Carvin/Kiesel.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Jan 27, 2016)

It's weird, I was watching a bunch of NAMM videos and was really digging the looks of the K-series guitars, but seeing the photos in this thread does indeed make the shape (especially the horns) look off. I feel like these would look better in person or something. 

But yeah, that upper horn kind of kills the shape. Very odd looking.


----------



## jerm (Jan 27, 2016)

Erockomania said:


> I didn't say it was shoddy. They were fine. I just don't like they way they dress fret ends. They are blocky and not comfy to me.


If they started doing bindings then it'd be better.

That's the one thing that i find puts them slightly below other custom shops, not that it's that bad, it's just a little less polished. Bare in mind, I LOVE my DC700.

I think if they stuck with 2 or 3 different fret sizes and have optional fretboard bindings it'd be total bliss.


----------



## mbardu (Jan 27, 2016)

jerm said:


> If they started doing bindings then it'd be better.
> 
> That's the one thing that i find puts them slightly below other custom shops, not that it's that bad, it's just a little less polished. Bare in mind, I LOVE my DC700.
> 
> I think if they stuck with 2 or 3 different fret sizes and have optional fretboard bindings it'd be total bliss.



Did you play maple (including those stained ones) or ebony fretboards? Almost looked Ike ebony was the minority at NAMM this year. 

I don't know about this obsession with binding but Carvin's approach here is pretty much the same as EBMM or PRS or Suhr etc. 

You don't need binding to make a guitar feel better in my experience . Otherwise the JP, Custom 24, Modern 'and mind you, the Carvin DCs too) wouldn't be constantly seen as some of the best.

Personal opinion, and in fact I find that the plastic binding a la Jackson / Gibson usually end up sticky, much like the glossy sticky back of neck finish that most folks here hate. 

The option wouldn't hurt, but that would not be objectively better. 

The thing that has been 'hurting' the fret feeling recently, at least in my own experience with Carvin has been that the figured maple they use for fretboards is sometimes a bit soft, and even if the fret job was perfect, it can shift a little. 
You usually won't see that on a PRS or Suhr or EBMM with RW fretboard, or on an ebony Carvin fretboard either for that matter. But I've seen at least one other PRS artist with the same feel on a flamed maple board, so I tend to think it'd universal, maybe shy of roasting the maple.


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## stevexc (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm not sorry.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 27, 2016)

OH YEAH, I'M READY TO PARTY IN KIESELTOWN.


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## jerm (Jan 29, 2016)

mbardu said:


> Did you play maple (including those stained ones) or ebony fretboards? Almost looked Ike ebony was the minority at NAMM this year.
> 
> I don't know about this obsession with binding but Carvin's approach here is pretty much the same as EBMM or PRS or Suhr etc.
> 
> ...


I wasn't at NAMM.

This is what I would like them to do (fretboard binding):


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## ShredFever (Jan 29, 2016)

The maple binding option a la Ibanez would be a cool option, but I would personally prefer that they just offer rolled fretboard edges, and a higher level fret end finishing as options. If I could get rolled edges a la my nicer PRS guitars, and something close to Ibanez J-custom fret end treatment, I _might _ not ever need to buy another brand of guitar again. I LOVE my 3 Vaders and those two things are currently my only nitpicks with them.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 30, 2016)

Serious question: to offer rolled edges, would they need to widen the fretboard to keep string spacing (and spacing from the outside strings to the edge of the fretboard) the same? Otherwise, if the fretboard starts to drop away closer to the strings, I feel like I would start to "fall off" on the high E side.


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## laxu (Jan 30, 2016)

spudmunkey said:


> Serious question: to offer rolled edges, would they need to widen the fretboard to keep string spacing (and spacing from the outside strings to the edge of the fretboard) the same? Otherwise, if the fretboard starts to drop away closer to the strings, I feel like I would start to "fall off" on the high E side.



No. The rolled edges can be simply in the space between the frets and usually the edges aren't so severely rounded that you'd expose the fret tang or anything like that.


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## SnowfaLL (Jan 31, 2016)

jerm said:


> I wasn't at NAMM.
> 
> This is what I would like them to do (fretboard binding):



you can get that exact effect with doing a kiesel treated double black board, leaving the sides natural.


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## laxu (Jan 31, 2016)

SnowfaLL said:


> you can get that exact effect with doing a kiesel treated double black board, leaving the sides natural.



Not really the same thing at all. One is colored fretboard of wood X and the other is wood X surrounded by wood Y or plastic.


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