# TAM100's wenge neck finish...



## Silence2-38554 (Mar 23, 2016)

I have a wenge neck that I will be finishing soon & would like to get as close as possible to the finish on the TAM100 necks. Anyone have any insight on this? I believe it's an oil finish but would love to get some specifics if possible!


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 20, 2016)

Wenge doesn't need any finish. Best raw IMO. I have two, zero finish, and they're downright slick. A finish would ruin that.


----------



## Killemall1983 (Apr 21, 2016)

I highly doubt it is completely raw with no oil or anything. That would be pretty stupid to do. Plus wenge gets way too dry with no oil.


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 21, 2016)

Want to know what's really stupid? Posting on something you don't actually own or have any experience with. 

FYI, wenge is one of those "oily" woods, like rosewood, which doesn't need any finish. And yes, there are more than a few woods that do not require a finish. Warmoth and many many other highly qualified luthiers sell them without a finish and as I said, I own two. Completely unfinished other than being finely sanded. Smooth as butter and they don't get tacky. No nitro. No poly. Just bare wood.

Here's my telecaster. Warmoth wenge neck and my first ever guitar build. Go to the Warmoth site and they even mention it doesn't need a finish. But what do they know!














The whole shebang. Ebony board with, brace yourself, no finish.





My other wenge neck currently being mated to a body in my latest build. Again, it'll have no finish, be smooth as glass and remain that way longer than you'll be alive. It even has a raw wenge fretboard.









So to the OP, if it's ALL wenge, no finish needed. If you're doing a laminate neck that uses wenge and a wood that does require a finish, like maple, well, it'll require a finish. 
Go here: Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Neck Woods and it'll tell you which woods require finishes and which don't. Wenge on it's own is really beautiful too. It looks really "grainy" but is actually very slick to the touch. Excellent wood choice.


----------



## Pikka Bird (Apr 21, 2016)

^You inlaid it after fretting? Unusual... Looks fab, btw.


----------



## BlackMastodon (Apr 21, 2016)

If the wenge ever did start getting dry for some reason you could also just oil it the same way you oil unfinished rosewood and ebony fretboards. 

All wenge needs is a really fine sanding to seal the grain a bit but other than that it doesn't need a finish, like Ape Factory said. A carpenter buddy of mine once told me that he's seen people just rub wenge on wenge to oil and seal it. Mind you those were flat pieces and not guitar necks.


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 21, 2016)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^You inlaid it after fretting? Unusual... Looks fab, btw.



Didn't have a choice as I couldn't get lumenlay from Warmoth and they don't do that style inlay either. I special ordered it directly from Japan. I was skeptical but it turned out great. Completely flush.


----------



## J_Mac (Apr 21, 2016)

Dude, that tele and neck is nails \m/

I love wenge and didn't know this about finishing. I dig it even more now I know this \m/ >_< \m/


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 21, 2016)

Yeah it's a great wood. I've not tried a wenge fretboard before so we'll see how it goes. Bassists have been using wenge for a loooong time. Been very popular with them. It's worked well on my telecaster. It can always be a crapshoot with a build but the guitar really sings. The overall feel is what'll win you over. Like many oily woods, it's naturally toxic but it's splinters and fine wenge dust you need to worry about. Take proper precautions when working with it as the dust can cause respiratory issues and the splinters will go septic. There's no risk from the finished product unless you decide to snap the neck and stab yourself in the leg


----------



## jandro (Apr 22, 2016)

I just completed a one piece wenge neck and wenge fretboard, both flat sawn; sanded it up to 600 and felt utterly fantastic.

I decided to give it 4 light coats of tru oil, as I was a bit hesitant to ship it off without any finish as it was going to a tropical area. Then I lightly covered and buffed it with beeswax. Felt absolutely fantastic. Only downside, if any, is that you leave fingerprints on the neck due to the beeswax. 

Tru-oil obviously darkened the grain and dramatically lessened the contrast of the lighter spotting. Beware of yellowish mineral inclusions, as these will be highlighted by the oil. 
.


----------



## Killemall1983 (Apr 23, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> Want to know what's really stupid? Posting on something you don't actually own or have any experience with.
> 
> FYI, wenge is one of those "oily" woods, like rosewood, which doesn't need any finish. And yes, there are more than a few woods that do not require a finish. Warmoth and many many other highly qualified luthiers sell them without a finish and as I said, I own two. Completely unfinished other than being finely sanded. Smooth as butter and they don't get tacky. No nitro. No poly. Just bare wood.
> 
> ...


Actually, wenge has almost zero oils in it at all. It is one of the driest woods there are. It is also one of the most prone to cracking because it is so dry... I would still never leave any type of wenge with no finish. That is just asking for trouble.


----------



## Killemall1983 (Apr 23, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> Yeah it's a great wood. I've not tried a wenge fretboard before so we'll see how it goes. Bassists have been using wenge for a loooong time. Been very popular with them. It's worked well on my telecaster. It can always be a crapshoot with a build but the guitar really sings. The overall feel is what'll win you over. Like many oily woods, it's naturally toxic but it's splinters and fine wenge dust you need to worry about. Take proper precautions when working with it as the dust can cause respiratory issues and the splinters will go septic. There's no risk from the finished product unless you decide to snap the neck and stab yourself in the leg


IVe used it as a fretboard wood on about 25 guitars. It is great stuff for a fretboard.


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 23, 2016)

Killemall1983 said:


> Actually, wenge has almost zero oils in it at all. It is one of the driest woods there are. It is also one of the most prone to cracking because it is so dry... I would still never leave any type of wenge with no finish. That is just asking for trouble.



It's classified as an oily wood. It cracks because it's a hard, stiff wood and due to it's large open grain structure. Has nothing to do with how much oil or resin is naturally in the wood. It's why they recommend epoxy for gluing wenge up. 
Mechanical Properties of World Woods

Advice needed in using epoxy on wenge... | Fine Woodworking Knots

I'm sorry but you don't need to finish wenge any more than you do rosewood, ebony and numerous other woods.


----------



## Tesla (Apr 23, 2016)

You both should make Wengesabers and duel. Then we'll truly see who is correct.


----------



## J_Mac (Apr 23, 2016)

Tesla said:


> You both should make Wengesabers and duel. Then we'll truly see who is correct.



Lmao! *gets popcorn ready*. I would pay to see that \m/

Seriously though I am very interested in this discussion. I have some wenge slabs ready for a future build.


----------



## Hywel (Apr 24, 2016)

From the photos I've seen I'd be surprised if Ibanez hadn't sprayed the TAM100s neck with a thin satin poly. It seems to reflect light a bit too evenly for an unfinished neck and a thin satin coat would protect it from dirt and moisture a bit better, allowing fewer warranty repairs. There's also the bubinga stripes which might well require a finish.

On my only wenge neck I've used a couple of coats of Tru-oil and it's darkened the grain a bit but not negatively affected the feel. It might well have been fine unfinished but I'd rather have some protection on there.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Apr 24, 2016)

Hywel said:


> From the photos I've seen I'd be surprised if Ibanez hadn't sprayed the TAM100s neck with a thin satin poly. It seems to reflect light a bit too evenly for an unfinished neck and a thin satin coat would protect it from dirt and moisture a bit better, allowing fewer warranty repairs. There's also the bubinga stripes which might well require a finish.
> 
> On my only wenge neck I've used a couple of coats of Tru-oil and it's darkened the grain a bit but not negatively affected the feel. It might well have been fine unfinished but I'd rather have some protection on there.



The TAM100 is a Premium-level Ibanez, I'm sure Ibanez spray satin poly finish on everything that is not Prestige or J-Custom manufacturing.


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 24, 2016)

Tesla said:


> You both should make Wengesabers and duel. Then we'll truly see who is correct.



I feel like I'm at a Trump rally. Doesn't matter there are actual facts. Anecdotes are so much better! 

A major parts manufacturer who has vast experience in producting wenge necks clearly stating wenge doesn't need a finish IN PRINT doesn't convince you? :wall bash: I certainly don't need to duel. He can go fight with Warmoth and all the dozens, if not hundreds of luthiers and thousands of musicians who've been using wenge raw for decades.

Can you finish wenge? Sure! At that point I would think there are far better wood choices if a finish is an absolute requirement for the final user as you're now eliminating one of the major benefits of using wenge. Those pores are deep and I do know certain types of finishes will change the color of the wood and remove the contrast between the light and dark areas. Personally, I'd test a wipe-on satin poly if it's a must. 

Everything You Need To Know About Wood | ActiveBass


----------



## pondman (Apr 24, 2016)

I have to admit that Wenge looks much better with a Danish Oil finish imo.


----------



## Tesla (Apr 24, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> I feel like I'm at a Trump rally. Doesn't matter there are actual facts. Anecdotes are so much better!



That's ludicrous. Trump would never use a dark wood.


----------



## Ape Factory (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, that made me laugh.


----------



## Killemall1983 (Apr 25, 2016)

Geeze... Everybody is so quick to judge and trash talk here lately. 
If you want "facts" , then check out wenge yourself. 
It doesnt have any characteristics of oily woods whatsoever. 
It doesnt clog sandpaper. 
It doesnt have any type of residue
It doesnt affect any finishes
It doesnt cause any gluing problems. 
I dont see how it can be classified as an oily wood. It is so dry it is pure powder when you sand it. 
So those are my facts.


----------



## StevenC (Apr 26, 2016)

OmegaSlayer said:


> The TAM100 is a Premium-level Ibanez, I'm sure Ibanez spray satin poly finish on everything that is not Prestige or J-Custom manufacturing.



TAM100 is a $4000 Prestige guitar. You're thinking of the TAM10.


----------



## Walterson (Apr 27, 2016)

pondman said:


> I have to admit that Wenge looks much better with a Danish Oil finish imo.



 Thats how I like it too. It doesn't become tacky at all, to me it feels even smoother with a thin Danish Oil finish.

without finish:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walterson-guitars/8210889948/

with two coats of Danish Oil:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walterson-guitars/8222442069/

Not the same guitar, but the Wenge was cut from the same plank...




Killemall1983 said:


> It doesnt have any characteristics of oily woods whatsoever.
> It doesnt clog sandpaper.
> It doesnt have any type of residue
> It doesnt affect any finishes
> ...



That coincides with my experience.

I burn the offcuts from my work shop in our stove. When you burn rosewood you can see oil boiling out of the wood before it catches fire. This does not happen with wenge all.


----------



## jwade (Apr 27, 2016)

Danish oil on Wenge looks crazy nice. I'm going to have to do that for the baritone and the 8 string necks!


----------



## Ape Factory (May 2, 2016)

Let's stay on tangent. No one is trash talking except you. To refresh, here's your original statement:
"I highly doubt it is completely raw with no oil or anything. That would be pretty stupid to do. Plus wenge gets way too dry with no oil."

You did not post any links for reference. We're apparently supposed to take your word.

Amazingly, several large manufacturers offer raw wenge with no finish and don't require a finish for a warranty. How do you respond to that? Are they wrong and you're right?

So...I have "checked" the facts and posted links and you have not. Wenge does not need finish. It just doesn't. 

Sure, you can coat anything but wenge is very resistant to decay and doesn't need to be coated in anything to maintain it's characteristics and not rot under normal conditions. It works fine raw and will probably outlast you. If someone wants to apply a finish to change how it looks, great! But it doesn't need it.

You insisted it needed to be coated. Please post multiple sources stating wenge is dry and needs to have a protective coating. That's the original bone of contention. You've not posted any credible information that says otherwise. I've posted several links which contradicts your position including that of Warmoth. Is their assertion it doesn't need to be coated not good enough? Are they just making sh*t up? Maybe you've just dealt with overly dry wood. Hell, even rosewood can look "dry". 

So please, back your statements up and I'll eat crow.

The most stable neck I own, by a long shot, is my raw wenge neck which gets played almost daily for the past two years. Looks and plays identical to the day I put it together. Go figure.



Killemall1983 said:


> Geeze... Everybody is so quick to judge and trash talk here lately.
> If you want "facts" , then check out wenge yourself.
> It doesnt have any characteristics of oily woods whatsoever.
> It doesnt clog sandpaper.
> ...


----------



## Ape Factory (May 2, 2016)

From the book "Furniture Wood by Heidrun Zinnkan:
"It's very hard and heavy and, because of this, often referred to as ironwood. Wenge has a high resin content and is difficult to glue and polish, although apparently otherwise easy to work with. It's used mainly because of its highly decorative, bold, straight grain. Wenge is resistant to insects and fungus. Its hardness allows it to wear well in heavy traffic areas and, because of its resistance to fungus, it can we used in places where other woods rot."

Now take a look at wenge (or any wood) on a cellular level and ask yourself why some woods are rot and fungal resistant without any coating.


----------



## Killemall1983 (May 3, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> Let's stay on tangent. No one is trash talking except you. To refresh, here's your original statement:
> "I highly doubt it is completely raw with no oil or anything. That would be pretty stupid to do. Plus wenge gets way too dry with no oil."
> 
> You did not post any links for reference. We're apparently supposed to take your word.
> ...


Wenge needing a finish was my opinion. You dont need to freak out over a statement as simple as that dude. 
I still dont see any evidence of it being an oily wood though. Like i said i have worked with it enough to see that it doesnt posses any of those properties. You ever put oil on wenge? It soaks it in for 20 coats. Oily woods dont absorb any oil at all.
Is this really so important to you that you have to respond this way? Is the world ending because i say wenge is not an oily wood?


----------



## russmuller (May 3, 2016)

Killemall1983 said:


> So those are my facts.





Killemall1983 said:


> Wenge needing a finish was my opinion.





Okay, so you guys have different opinions and experiences with wenge. I think we can safely take it down a notch.



Killemall1983 said:


> You ever put oil on wenge? It soaks it in for 20 coats. Oily woods dont absorb any oil at all.



I'd assume that has something to do with the wood being so porous that it can soak up a lot of oil, but I'm a newb who don't know nuffin'.


----------



## Killemall1983 (May 3, 2016)

russmuller said:


> Okay, so you guys have different opinions and experiences with wenge. I think we can safely take it down a notch.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd assume that has something to do with the wood being so porous that it can soak up a lot of oil, but I'm a newb who don't know nuffin'.


Yes, those were my facts on the wood itself. I suppose those properties dont absolutely mean it cant be used raw. but those are absolutely facts based on the 40-50 pieces i have used on guitars. Of course there are a lot of things left to preference.


----------



## Ape Factory (May 3, 2016)

Killemall1983 said:


> Wenge needing a finish was my opinion. You dont need to freak out over a statement as simple as that dude.
> I still dont see any evidence of it being an oily wood though. Like i said i have worked with it enough to see that it doesnt posses any of those properties. You ever put oil on wenge? It soaks it in for 20 coats. Oily woods dont absorb any oil at all.
> Is this really so important to you that you have to respond this way? Is the world ending because i say wenge is not an oily wood?



I'm not even close to freaking out so my apologies if I came across that way. Most willing to bury the dull hatchet  My reaction was to the uncoated wenge being stupid comment which clearly isn't true. 

If you had said, initially, that in your opinion, wedge is better with a finish, great, would not have had a problem with it at all. It's personal preference. Hell, I even like the look of the slightly darker wenge. 

I happen to prefer raw as one of the great properties of wenge is its feel when no coating is applied due to the large grain structure and distinct lack of friction while moving up/down the neck. Aesthetically, I can see where one would prefer some sort of oil or coating.

As far as being oily, is it cocobolo? Heck no, not even close. But it does have a lot of resin naturally so I guess it's not oily in the traditional sense. It's very rot resistant due to its resin/oil content. That's how it gets its resistance to decay. When you coat a neck wood or body in danish, true oil or something similar, you're creating a barrier against wear and cellular breakdown. Some woods just have that naturally and wenge is one of them. 

Ask yourself this...if wenge is a "dry" wood, like say rock maple, why does it have far greater resistance to rot than maple? Why does maple need to be coated to last any length of time and wenge doesn't?


----------



## pondman (May 3, 2016)

Lots of popcorn in this thread


----------



## Silence2-38554 (May 4, 2016)

Wow, this thread got a lot more traction than I'd intended. As the OP, I just wanted to pop in & say that I ended up finishing the back of my neck with 2 coats of Tru-Oil & one coat of their wax after lightly sanding with 320 grit. Feels great


----------



## Slunk Dragon (May 4, 2016)

Quite a bit of useful information brought up about wenge. Thank you guys very much, this actually gives me a few pointers, because I have a guitar build I'll EVENTUALLY get to that's got a wenge and bubinga neck. This will give me something to think over, for sure!


----------



## Floppystrings (May 5, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> Want to know what's really stupid? Posting on something you don't actually own or have any experience with.



 That is very rude.

From the Warwick manual, the company that uses more Wenge than anyone:







Do they not say oil the fretboard if needed? I believe they do. Is this from a manual with a bass with a Wenge fretboard? It indeed is.


----------



## Floppystrings (May 6, 2016)

Ape Factory said:


> Ask yourself this...if wenge is a "dry" wood, like say rock maple, why does it have far greater resistance to rot than maple? Why does maple need to be coated to last any length of time and wenge doesn't?



It contains more sugar, which bacteria and fungi use for a source of nutrients, breaking down the wood quicker.

How Does Wood Rot?


----------



## Floppystrings (May 6, 2016)

pondman said:


> Lots of popcorn in this thread



If you think wenge, ebony, or rosewood need a finish...

You probably eat children.


----------



## Alberto7 (May 6, 2016)

Silence2-38554 said:


> Wow, this thread got a lot more traction than I'd intended. As the OP, I just wanted to pop in & say that I ended up finishing the back of my neck with 2 coats of Tru-Oil & one coat of their wax after lightly sanding with 320 grit. Feels great



Pics?


----------

