# To BOOST or not to BOOST?



## Guitarjon (Aug 24, 2021)

Hey guys,

A LOT of players, especially in the metal genre, like to use boost or overdrive pedals in front of their (high gain) amps to make them sound more tight, focused and aggressive/percussive. I usually prefer the sound of my tube amps pure, so without a boost. I tend to prefer the more natural and thick response, depending on the amp of course. In my opinion amps retain their unique character more without a boost up front....

However, maybe I just haven't experimented enough with boosts. I do usually like to boost my amps when I'm using super low tunings though, so with my 8 or 9 string guitars. Of course it depends on the amps because certain amps like the ENGL Ironball for example are already so tight sounding by default.

So I'm ready to go on a little tone searching journey to find out what it is that people like so much about boost pedals. I'm starting with the Peavey 6505 and the maxon OD808 because it's a very common combo:



Note: I don't think there is a real definitive answer here because it really depends on many variables like the player, the style, the amp, the guitar, the tuning and the pedal etc. However, I still think that this is a fun and hopefully interesting premise and I'm looking forward to doing more episodes with a wide range of amps, guitars and pedals.

I would also be very interested in hearing about your thoughts and preferences on this subject! Also, what type of amp should I do next?


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## CanserDYI (Aug 24, 2021)

Whats funny is many times when others are playing without a boost I don't notice, but when I play without a boost it's so evident and so needed, then flipped on and "ahhhhh there's the feel and sound I was looking for".


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## laxu (Aug 24, 2021)

To me using a boost is the weirdest way to go about it when these amps have massive gain and you mainly want the effect for EQ so an EQ pedal would make a lot more sense. Is it just a cost issue?

I've never been much into boosting high gain amps as I always wanted the amp to sound great as is.


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## Choop (Aug 24, 2021)

laxu said:


> To me using a boost is the weirdest way to go about it when these amps have massive gain and you mainly want the effect for EQ so an EQ pedal would make a lot more sense. Is it just a cost issue?
> 
> I've never been much into boosting high gain amps as I always wanted the amp to sound great as is.



I'm with you...I tend to prefer an EQ anymore vs using an OD as a boost, but I believe part of the appeal for using an OD or something is that it gives some additional compression.


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## sleewell (Aug 24, 2021)

i like the boost out front with an eq in the loop.


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## odibrom (Aug 24, 2021)

This is an interesting series to explore, so congrats on the initiative.

@Guitarjon It seems that you have dialed the boosted amp to the sounds you hear in your head, which is fine, but kind of kills the comparison you're trying to make. I'd love to hear a 3rd and 4th tone tests:

3rd would be the amp boosted but with the settings of when unboosted.
4th would be the amp un-boosted, but with the settings of when boosted.
Since you're reamping, it's just a matter of doing some more editing... I dare you...


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## sevenfoxes (Aug 24, 2021)

I personally don’t like boosts. Never found them to provide any kind of sound i was looking for.

I know tons of people like to boost rectos, for example, but I’ve always preferred its natural tone.


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## Guitarjon (Aug 24, 2021)

odibrom said:


> This is an interesting series to explore, so congrats on the initiative.
> 
> @Guitarjon It seems that you have dialed the boosted amp to the sounds you hear in your head, which is fine, but kind of kills the comparison you're trying to make. I'd love to hear a 3rd and 4th tone tests:
> 
> ...



Thanks! I can't wait to dive in further and try all sorts of amps and pedals. Should be very interesting!

About your suggestion: I did actually consider doing something similar but it didn't make as much sense to me because if you're going to use a boost, why not tweak the knobs a little bit until it sounds better? It would also make the videos longer. However, never say never! I appreciate the input!



sevenfoxes said:


> I personally don’t like boosts. Never found them to provide any kind of sound i was looking for.
> 
> I know tons of people like to boost rectos, for example, but I’ve always preferred its natural tone.



That's how I usually feel about it. I have many amps and I like the fact that they're all different. When I need a super tight amp, I'll just grab an ENGL or my Invective for example or when I need something more thick and chunky I'll grab my Recto etc.

However, if you only have one or a couple amps, pedals can be a great way to get more types of sounds and voicings from one amp. So I get it from that perspective. Plus, it's just fun to try new things, even if in the end I still end up preferring the amps without the pedals, like with this episode.

I'm looking forward to trying my Rockerverb boosted soon with my Mike Mushok Baritone. Also my Ironheart 60, 5150 III and many more... It's going to be fun!


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## Matt08642 (Aug 24, 2021)

Granted I only have experience with my 6505MH, but playing with other people at reasonably loud volumes I found I didn't need a boost at all for what we were playing.


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## Rev2010 (Aug 24, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> I usually prefer the sound of my tube amps pure, so without a boost



Same here, and yes I've tried with a boost and a few different brands. I just like my Triple Rec better without a boost for rhythm playing. However, I do like engaging a boost for tapping or parts with a lot of pinch harmonics or overtones as it brings them out more and makes them really jump - and it makes tapping sound so much smoother and easier. I think also maybe engaging a boost at some intense parts of a song is cool too. But having to use it all the time, nope. Not for me.


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## odibrom (Aug 24, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> (...)
> About your suggestion: I did actually consider doing something similar but it didn't make as much sense to me because if you're going to use a boost, why not tweak the knobs a little bit until it sounds better? It would also make the videos longer. However, never say never! I appreciate the input! (...)



The point is, in my opinion, you tweaked the boosted amp to sound similar to the un-boosted, which is not wrong by any means. Yes, it will make videos longer, but it would also provide a more complete information on how a boost really affects the amp's base tone. So, 4 tones to mess with:

Un-boosted amp dialed to taste so it sounds good.
Boosted amp with the same previous settings.
Boosted amp tweaked to taste so it sounds good.
Un-boosted amp with the same previous settings.
With these 4 samples, one can actually understand how a boost affects the amp because the points 1 and 3 are subjective. The "setting the amp to sound good" is a super subjective criteria, hence the needed points 2 and 4 so one can evaluate and compare the results, delivering a more objective understanding of the "boost" effect.

Please don't understand this as "bringing down" on your work, which I think it's awesome, more of a suggestion to take it to a step further. As is, I feel like I'd choose the un-boosted because of practical reasons: one less piece of gear to worry about, less cables, batteries/transformers, less things to go south.

...

On a side note, at the moment I'm a guitar to amp guy due to practicality of it, but I do miss some FXs in front. Maybe a boost could work...? I'd love to understand how it works out since I'm not a guy who buys stuff just to try them out.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 24, 2021)

To the guys who use an EQ to tighten up bottom end ala Tubescreamer; how are you using it? Interested in trying it, because boosting sometimes leads to this type of squish that blurs notes and chords if not done correctly, and I'd like to find new ways of doing it.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 24, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> To the guys who use an EQ to tighten up bottom end ala Tubescreamer; how are you using it? Interested in trying it, because boosting sometimes leads to this type of squish that blurs notes and chords if not done correctly, and I'd like to find new ways of doing it.



I could be wrong but I think it's just a simple low cut. You can go up to 172hz which I think is around what a tube screamer is kinda naturally doing. I saw that in a video once a long time ago. Seems to work fine when I try it myself.


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## Guitarjon (Aug 24, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> I could be wrong but I think it's just a simple low cut. You can go up to 172hz which I think is around what a tube screamer is kinda naturally doing. I saw that in a video once a long time ago. Seems to work fine when I try it myself.



Boosting some mids at around 800hz/1k alongside that low cut could also help.


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## død (Aug 24, 2021)

I generally always have some sort of dirt pedal in front of my amp, lately it’s been a Maxon ST9 Pro+. I tend to find most TS circuits to be pretty tame, neuters the low end and I don’t like where the midbump sits, either. The ST9 is an exception to that, tho, it sounds absolutely massive, and the Mid Enhance knob lets you move the Q peak to wherever you want it to be, really. Cuts straight through the mix even with the bass boost engaged. Proco Rats are really cool as a dirty boost, too. Gets nasty reallll fucking fast.


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## wheresthefbomb (Aug 24, 2021)

død said:


> Proco Rats are really cool as a dirty boost, too. Gets nasty reallll fucking fast.



Came here to say this. I actually use RAT as the "clean" sound and then get gain stages from a Longsword V3 in front of the RAT, but that's into a super clean amp. Gets filthy enough that I don't have a fuzz on my board anymore. Would surely melt faces/steel beams through an already-dirty amp.

I borrowed my friend's vintage square button toob screamer and for my tastes it didn't hold a candle to the humble rodent.


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## yan12 (Aug 24, 2021)

I hate boosts. I think it makes anyone's tone thin. I also think they were a novelty that found a niche. In reality, a good boost in front of an old Fender or the like has it's merits for more sustain and harmonic content especially for leads.

Modern amps have a very different circuit and gain structure anyhow, and mostly pcb tweakable boards. Not to say that some folks don't have a GREAT tone boosting modern amps, but I am not in that camp. I am PTP amps all the way when I can and don't use boosts. I feel if I need more hair on say a deluxe reverb, I bring another amp....or an amp with two distinct channels.


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## cardinal (Aug 24, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> To the guys who use an EQ to tighten up bottom end ala Tubescreamer; how are you using it? Interested in trying it, because boosting sometimes leads to this type of squish that blurs notes and chords if not done correctly, and I'd like to find new ways of doing it.



I sometimes use a PEQ to boost a JCM 800; it turns it into a monster kinda like a 5152. 

I boost around 650hz with a moderate Q. Too narrow, it'll sound like you forgot to turn off a wah pedal. Too broad, you won't get that snarling sound. And I think I roll off the lows below 120hz or so. And the overall boost level is pretty cranked. Something like +15 dB.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2021)

I only boost amps that don't have enough gain on tap by themselves or are more finicky about the guitars I use with them. In my current lineup that basically means I boost my Mesa F30 and my VHT 100cl. None of my other amps need a boost, and they definitely wouldn't benefit from them tbh. 
I absolutely detest tubescreamers as most amp/rigs don't need more mids, especially upper mids. I prefer to use an mt2 or hm2/ evil ned for boosting, though lately I've been having a ton of fun with a KSR Eros. It is easily the most versatile boost/dirt pedal I've used since the airis savage, though it's much drier feeling than the savage comparatively.


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## WarMachine (Aug 24, 2021)

Without a boost. But with an EQ in the loop to help out with some of the boomy/mud frequencies that a boost helps pull out. And just a slight bump in the upper mids as well. I like it this way because as everyone has said, the 5150 has plenty of gain on tap. Here's a track i just wrapped up for a game cover from Killer Instinct (shameless self plug), using the 5150 sim the POD Go without a boost, just an EQ in the loop;
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lecVEnYOMhasLFR4x4gMIF6Uswqf6apO/view?usp=sharing


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## KailM (Aug 24, 2021)

It depends on the amp. 

My EVH sounds better to me without one. No matter what, it sounds too thin and grating every time I try boosting it. They nailed the gain stage filtering on that amp IMO — without a boost it is still very tight but some sag can be dialed in.

My 6505 needs one to sound right to me, but I can get good sounds without it too.

I *always* run an EQ in the loop though. All amps I’ve owned sound much better with that.


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 24, 2021)

Been using an EQ before the amp since the last century. And I pretty much hate typical boosts. Tubescreamers in particular because they completely cut the balls off the tone, and add both a shitty coating on top of it and annoying mids. 

As for how I use the EQ, it depends on the guitar and pickups. My general modus operandi is to cut lows, (mildly on 6s, more drastic on my 8 string) cut a very specific mid frequency, (this varies from both guitar/pickup and amp) boost some highs, (usually a mild bump in the 4k-5k range for some single coil goodness) and CUT the output. Overdriving the input is one of the specific reasons I dislike boosts, and cutting the output helps to get further away from that since I’m usually using humbuckers and active ones at that. 

So as you can see, I’m actually cutting more than anything else. And the side bonus is that turning the EQ off works as a nice lead boost. 

I view the EQ as a gigantic and ridiculously versatile external tone control for my guitar basically. And if things like the EMG VMC and BTC controls were a bit more versatile, I’d use those instead of an external device.


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## MoJoToJo (Aug 25, 2021)

Just checking new posts on SSO & noticed your video after just watching this one, small world indeed Should say bit different as using boost into AXFX not toob amp in this video. And not any palm muted chugg from the old fella BK


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## Gmork (Aug 25, 2021)

I use to boost everything and still do from time to time but im a stickler for pedalboard space so ill often go without and opt to just dial in a bit more mids/highs/gain on the amp or main gain source itself which has a similar affect (though the extra compression from a boost is really nice mind you)


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## Gmork (Aug 25, 2021)

I use to boost everything and still do from time to time but im a stickler for pedalboard space so ill often go without and opt to just dial in a bit more mids/highs/gain on the amp or main gain source itself which has a similar affect (though the extra compression from a boost is really nice mind you)


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## Emperoff (Aug 25, 2021)

When you did a boost comparison a while ago I vastly prefered the EQ. Second place was the Soul Food (transparent OD style).

I just don't like how boosts feel. They make everything sound "squishy". They even out the difference between wound and unwound strings, and even though I'm aware people love that, I don't. It doesn't equate to what I feel under my hands.

I used a Boss PQ3-B (parametric EQ) before the amp for years when I had my thrash/death band back in the day, and it worked a treat.

I also recently discovered other style of overdrive (much more natural and "amp-like"), which I'm very curious to try soon for a pedalboard build I'm doing:


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## MatrixClaw (Aug 25, 2021)

I'm actually really surprised to hear that so many people on SSO don't boost. Usually when I tell people that I don't boost my amps and don't really like to, they look at me like I'm a nut job. I really don't understand why I'd buy a $2000+ amp just to have to use a $100 pedal to make it sound good. If you don't like the way the amp sounds, sell it and buy something else. All your boost is doing is squashing all the dynamics out of it and making it sound like every other boosted amp in existence. Thanks, you guys are okay in my book


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## efiltsohg (Aug 25, 2021)

laxu said:


> To me using a boost is the weirdest way to go about it when these amps have massive gain and you mainly want the effect for EQ so an EQ pedal would make a lot more sense. Is it just a cost issue?
> 
> I've never been much into boosting high gain amps as I always wanted the amp to sound great as is.


If the boost pedal already gives the EQ curve I want out front why bother fiddling with an adjustable one?


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## cardinal (Aug 25, 2021)

MatrixClaw said:


> I'm actually really surprised to hear that so many people on SSO don't boost. Usually when I tell people that I don't boost my amps and don't really like to, they look at me like I'm a nut job. I really don't understand why I'd buy a $2000+ amp just to have to use a $100 pedal to make it sound good. If you don't like the way the amp sounds, sell it and buy something else. All your boost is doing is squashing all the dynamics out of it and making it sound like every other boosted amp in existence. Thanks, you guys are okay in my book



In concept I don't like the idea of using a OD pedal to boost, but I've just not been able to the tones I like better from just an amp alone. The Marshall+SD-1 combo and the Recto+OD808 combo is just sorta That Sound to me.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Aug 25, 2021)

Nice video Jon!

I boost all of my amps, including the tight ones  it's just a different type of tonal shaping before the gain stages, no different from using different types of pickups IMO.


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## Werecow (Aug 25, 2021)

I boost everything when i'm playing as "me". If i'm going for a specific band or song tone that isn't boosted, then i don't.


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## Screamingdaisy (Aug 25, 2021)

Long time Recto user. I’ve never liked boosting. For me the solution was more volume with less gain.

When I was younger, boosting high gain sort of implied you were a wimp and people would make fun of you for it. Then one day I woke up and I was the weirdo for not using a boost, and people made fun of me for it. Kind of funny how fast that can change.

Best I can figure out, it happened around the same time that EMGs fell out of favour and people started using alnico pickups for some reason. I always felt that if people would choose the the right pickups they wouldn’t need to fix their EQ with an overdrive.

IMO/YMMV


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## odibrom (Aug 26, 2021)

Screamingdaisy said:


> Long time Recto user. I’ve never liked boosting. For me the solution was more volume with less gain.
> 
> When I was younger, boosting high gain sort of implied you were a wimp and people would make fun of you for it. Then one day I woke up and I was the weirdo for not using a boost, and people made fun of me for it. Kind of funny how fast that can change.
> 
> ...




I started using Alnico 5 pickups about 3 years ago but still have guitars with ceramic, all passive though... and it's nice to change once in a while, I refreshes the memory, which is what we are.


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## Boris_VTR (Aug 26, 2021)

KailM said:


> It depends on the amp.
> 
> My EVH sounds better to me without one. No matter what, it sounds too thin and grating every time I try boosting it. They nailed the gain stage filtering on that amp IMO — without a boost it is still very tight but some sag can be dialed in.
> 
> ...


What about EVH blue channel? Also sound like it is already boosted?


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## død (Aug 26, 2021)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Came here to say this. I actually use RAT as the "clean" sound and then get gain stages from a Longsword V3 in front of the RAT, but that's into a super clean amp. Gets filthy enough that I don't have a fuzz on my board anymore. Would surely melt faces/steel beams through an already-dirty amp.
> 
> I borrowed my friend's vintage square button toob screamer and for my tastes it didn't hold a candle to the humble rodent.


RATs are incredibly useful tools, man. I’ve gigged with only a RAT in front of an amp many, many times, and while it requires me to stop being lazy and doing some knob twirling mid-song whenever I need fuzz, it always sounds awesome.


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## Emperoff (Aug 26, 2021)

Screamingdaisy said:


> Long time Recto user. I’ve never liked boosting. For me the solution was more volume with less gain.
> 
> When I was younger, boosting high gain sort of implied you were a wimp and people would make fun of you for it. Then one day I woke up and I was the weirdo for not using a boost, and people made fun of me for it. Kind of funny how fast that can change.
> 
> ...



Yeah, at some point people started to say EMGs were compressed and lifeless and decided to use mid output passives and slam the amp with a boost. Apparently that kind of tone is not compressed


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## KailM (Aug 26, 2021)

Boris_VTR said:


> What about EVH blue channel? Also sound like it is already boosted?



To me it does. It is quite tight enough anyway. I do boost that one sometimes, but I find that I really have to change the settings on the amp. Again, it thins it out quite a bit and I have to turn the bass up quite a bit to compensate. For some reason I am not as impressed with the blue channel as everyone else is. I use the red channel with the gain down quite a bit and roll off some guitar volume a little if I need a milder gain, and then set up the other channel purely for cleans. Maybe that would change if I had the concentric knobs.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 26, 2021)

For those using a helix, what EQ do you use to cut out mud? Honestly the parametric one, and really anything other than the simple 10 band really confuse the shit out of me. 

Like i was saying before there is this "squish" that happens with a ts that I have a love and hate relationship, as it makes fast runs, legatos and tremolos nice smooth and amazing, but chugs and chords lose their definition.


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## thebeesknees22 (Aug 26, 2021)

@CanserDYI - I literally use the the Low/High cut EQ block. Set the low cut to 172Hz, and done! I sometimes put the minotaur or heir apparent or whatever after if i want extra grit or color (colour?) 

I don't do the above all the time, but I do sometimes!


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## Thrashman (Aug 26, 2021)

I've just grown accustomed to having a ts-style boost in front. It doesn't have to "boost" per se, just be there as I like that feel.


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## fantom (Aug 27, 2021)

I honestly never tried to boost for something like 20 years now. I primarily play through an Engl.

I remember when I had a Rectifier in the 90s, someone told me how to run a Metalzone as an eq with my Rectifier. I never tried because I thought the Metalzone was a garbage pedal. And I picked up the Engl shortly after.

So during the pandemic, I decided to buy a boost and see if boosting was worth the hype. It didn't do much for the Engl, and I prefer to not use it.

But the Rectifier sounds like a totally improved amp. I am not sure I can go back to playing the Recto unboosted.

In the room, I could go either way. For recording, I would try both and pick the one that fits in the mix better.


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## LCW (Aug 27, 2021)

Ok - this (new used acquisition) is definitely helped by a boost (similar to Recto). SD-1 for me is the go-to!


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## KailM (Aug 28, 2021)

This thread may have prompted me to stop boosting my amps. As I stated in an earlier post, I already found my EVH to sound better without one.

I just got done playing my 6505 unboosted after re-dialing it. All I had to do is back off on the bass and resonance, backed off the mids a hair, and hot damn it sounds great. I really didn't have to increase the gain. It's at about 3.5 on the lead channel and that's still plenty of gain. Green channel is still a little tubby, so maybe I'd still use the boost on that; but it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't like it better after some more bass reduction. I think I'm just not a fan of extremely tight tones. The boost just makes the tone too abrasive and always seems to take away some balls -- and I really like my pedal, an MXR M77 which is highly adjustable. Might be that I now only use the boost for leads -- where it really does take it to another level. Without a doubt, pinch harmonics are much easier and lead/legato runs stick out much better.


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## nightlight (Aug 28, 2021)

I might be the odd one out, but I like boosting some of my amps. For example, the VHT Sig:X is a very dry sounding amp that has plenty of roar, but not a lot of compression to the gain structure. By boosting it, I make the tone a bit more "wet", in the sense that it is more fluid and smooth. 

I also don't think of boosting as adding mids and cutting lows, even though that happens by design of my TS9 pedal. What I think of it as is fattening up the signal I am feeding my amp by boosting the level via turning up the volume knob. This results in driving the tubes in the amp harder and gives the aforementioned liquid feel to the tone. 

It also makes it easier to play the amp at a more manageable volume.


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## Boris_VTR (Aug 28, 2021)

KailM said:


> This thread may have prompted me to stop boosting my amps. As I stated in an earlier post, I already found my EVH to sound better without one.
> 
> I just got done playing my 6505 unboosted after re-dialing it. All I had to do is back off on the bass and resonance, backed off the mids a hair, and hot damn it sounds great. I really didn't have to increase the gain. It's at about 3.5 on the lead channel and that's still plenty of gain. Green channel is still a little tubby, so maybe I'd still use the boost on that; but it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't like it better after some more bass reduction. I think I'm just not a fan of extremely tight tones. The boost just makes the tone too abrasive and always seems to take away some balls -- and I really like my pedal, an MXR M77 which is highly adjustable. Might be that I now only use the boost for leads -- where it really does take it to another level. Without a doubt, pinch harmonics are much easier and lead/legato runs stick out much better.


What were you final settings for red channel? I usually have gain at around 3-3.5, bass 6, mids 4 and treble 7.5. My resonance is 6 and presence 8. Sometimes I use SD-1 as boost if I play along side the records. Post is 3 but attenuated with torpedo reload.
I also have MXR M77 and like it a lot because it has 100Hz setting. I feel it is not over the top boost so that you would get quacking guitar sound.


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## Screamingdaisy (Aug 28, 2021)

KailM said:


> This thread may have prompted me to stop boosting my amps. As I stated in an earlier post, I already found my EVH to sound better without one.
> 
> I just got done playing my 6505 unboosted after re-dialing it. All I had to do is back off on the bass and resonance, backed off the mids a hair, and hot damn it sounds great. I really didn't have to increase the gain. It's at about 3.5 on the lead channel and that's still plenty of gain. Green channel is still a little tubby, so maybe I'd still use the boost on that; but it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't like it better after some more bass reduction. I think I'm just not a fan of extremely tight tones. The boost just makes the tone too abrasive and always seems to take away some balls -- and I really like my pedal, an MXR M77 which is highly adjustable. Might be that I now only use the boost for leads -- where it really does take it to another level. Without a doubt, pinch harmonics are much easier and lead/legato runs stick out much better.



Sometimes a boost can become a bit of a crutch where you don’t really need it, but you keep using it because it’s your comfort zone.

IMO, it can be worth totally ditching for awhile just to see where you end up without it. If you add it back in in a month or two then perhaps it was meant to be, but in the mean time you tried some new things.

For me, ditching the OD on lead cleaned up my lead tone, and I smoothed it back out with a bit of delay and reverb. In the end I think I’m better off for it.


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## KailM (Aug 28, 2021)

Boris_VTR said:


> What were you final settings for red channel? I usually have gain at around 3-3.5, bass 6, mids 4 and treble 7.5. My resonance is 6 and presence 8. Sometimes I use SD-1 as boost if I play along side the records. Post is 3 but attenuated with torpedo reload.
> I also have MXR M77 and like it a lot because it has 100Hz setting. I feel it is not over the top boost so that you would get quacking guitar sound.



My settings on the red channel are pretty close to yours — Gain 3.5, Low 6, Mid 3.75, high 6, Res 6.75, and presence between 6 and 7. Post gain at 2 with no attenuator— stadium volume, in other words.

I forgot to mention I do still use a Boss GE-7 in the loop, and that will definitely not change. I scoop at 400 hz and boost 1.6khz which really gives it more aggression and tightening— but sounds much more massive than when I boost the amp.

The distortion character changed as well when ditching the boost. With the boost, there are “more teeth”, but they are smaller teeth. Without the boost it has bigger, gnarlier teeth, but not quite as many. I don’t know if that makes any sense.


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## LCW (Aug 28, 2021)

Call me naive but just discovered the power of an EQ in the loop (combined with a boost in front too… or without I’m sure works too).

Check out Lambchopper on YouTube… mind blowing the tone shaping he does to nail classic metal tones with very average gear.


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## LCW (Aug 28, 2021)

KailM said:


> My settings on the red channel are pretty close to yours — Gain 3.5, Low 6, Mid 3.75, high 6, Res 6.75, and presence between 6 and 7. Post gain at 2 with no attenuator— stadium volume, in other words.
> 
> I forgot to mention I do still use a Boss GE-7 in the loop, and that will definitely not change. I scoop at 400 hz and boost 1.6khz which really gives it more aggression and tightening— but sounds much more massive than when I boost the amp.
> 
> The distortion character changed as well when ditching the boost. With the boost, there are “more teeth”, but they are smaller teeth. Without the boost it has bigger, gnarlier teeth, but not quite as many. I don’t know if that makes any sense.



Your last paragraph makes total sense. I’m venturing on this journey as we speak with a recently acquired Orange amp.


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## gnoll (Aug 28, 2021)

I sold my od808 to a friend a while ago. I am pretty over that sound. I think boosts tend to feel great in the room and be fun to play but when it comes to the recorded tones I mostly don't like it. Especially mid-humpy ts type circuits but even just cutting too much lows with an eq or other boost I find really just neuters an amp. I'd rather get that articulation by lowering the gain. One of the sounds I really hate hearing on albums is a really boosted/tightened up amp drenched in gain.


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## Guitarjon (Aug 29, 2021)

All your replies have been great to read to far! Very insightful and interesting. So many different preferences out there, which in my opinion is a great thing! Variety is the spice of life!

For the next episode I'm either going to do the Friedman JJ JR or my Rockerverb MK III. Both should be a lot of fun and interesting! I'll post the subsequent episodes here to not flood the forum...


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 29, 2021)

If you don’t mind a suggestion; maybe try doing some tests where you use the ODs as drive pedals with the amps set to lower gain.

I’ve never been wild about boosting the way it’s typically done, but using pedals like a TS, SD1, DS1, etc with their gain up around half or so and their outputs more moderate in to an amp that is not heavily distorted kind of blends the pedal and amp together more smoothly. Not just an OD sitting atop the tone.


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## Guitarjon (Aug 29, 2021)

Kyle Jordan said:


> If you don’t mind a suggestion; maybe try doing some tests where you use the ODs as drive pedals with the amps set to lower gain.
> 
> I’ve never been wild about boosting the way it’s typically done, but using pedals like a TS, SD1, DS1, etc with their gain up around half or so and their outputs more moderate in to an amp that is not heavily distorted kind of blends the pedal and amp together more smoothly. Not just an OD sitting atop the tone.



Definitely planning on doing some of those with my lower gain Marshalls etc!


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## profwoot (Aug 29, 2021)

Since reading this thread I've been messing around with various amps trying to get an unboosted rhythm tone I like. I love Rabea's tone and he almost never boosts anything so I know it's possible, but I pretty much always boost so don't have a lot of experience dialing things in without a boost. 

Anyway, the EQ trick described above gets close but still leaves things either flubby or brittle depending on how I dial the amps. I'll keep looking for a sweet spot between the two, but meanwhile no matter how I have the amp dialed, turning on a boost is just "yep there it is". I have noticed what others have said in this thread about the feel of the strings being less blurry without a boost, and I've also noticed the little mid-spike in my Juggs being a lot more noticeable unboosted (I still like it tho).

I'm having fun looking for a good unboosted tone, but I sure do love what a boost does to a high gain amp.


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## profwoot (Aug 29, 2021)

Ok so after looking up a tubescreamer EQ curve I was able to get pretty close using the free TDR Nova EQ plugin.

The basic idea is a gentle high pass filter beginning at ~720, a similarly gentle low pass filter beginning between there and about 2k depending on where you like your boost's tone control, and then a small mid bump around there to simulate that little plateau that happens between the two filters. 

That wasn't quite right so I added a pretty steep low shelf around 3-400 to hit the mud area a little harder than the hpf was, which required moving the hpf down quite a bit to compensate. screenshot attached.



I also cranked the out gain of the EQ plugin, since I usually run my boosts at full volume. The result seems pretty close to [a plugin of] the real thing. The lpf doesn't actually do much since the natural EQ curve of a guitar falls off at about that rate, so as others have said it's mostly about the low cut. 

Since a lot of folk here use analog gear I also tried to recreate a TS with the 7-band pre-EQ pedal in the Lasse Lammert STL suite and got similar results (just copying the parametric EQ plugin curve without any actual dialing in). Settings attached.



Not sure I'll switch, but using the EQ as a boost does allow a lot more control, e.g., losing the hpf entirely to let the low shelf get the mud out without killing as much of the low end, where exactly the mid bump is, etc. This is sort of obvious, since these days most any pedal is inferior to what you can do in your DAW with some tweaking; a pedal just provides a curated range of pre-baked EQ/compression/gain/whatever on the fly.


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## Screamingdaisy (Aug 29, 2021)

It’s been years since I tried an EQ pedal, but what I found over time was every time I dialled in something that I really liked, I found I could get pretty close to that sound by adjusting something else in my setup… amp settings, tone controls, pickups, etc.

It became a thing where I would dial in a sound on the EQ, a/b the two tones for a bit, then figure out how to dial in the new sound without the EQ.


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## metaljohn (Aug 30, 2021)

The Maxon ST9 Pro+ gets put in front of any amp I play. Theres just a certain magic with that one for me.


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## Mourguitars (Aug 31, 2021)

profwoot said:


> Ok so after looking up a tubescreamer EQ curve I was able to get pretty close using the free TDR Nova EQ plugin.
> 
> The basic idea is a gentle high pass filter beginning at ~720, a similarly gentle low pass filter beginning between there and about 2k depending on where you like your boost's tone control, and then a small mid bump around there to simulate that little plateau that happens between the two filters.
> 
> ...




I seen that and i am going to try that EQ setting...Lasse knows his stuff...Ive been reading his stuff since the Andy Sneap Forum

Mike


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## TMM (Aug 31, 2021)

For me, boosting has always been about achieving the touch-sensitivity that I’m looking for in my amps, not about getting more gain. Driving a tube front end hard with a little low end rolloff and just a hair of gain gets this really touch-sensitive, smooth, articulate response from most amps.

ENGLs are the only amps I’ve ever played that responded exactly like I wanted without a boost in front (and actually overcompress when boosted)

And  I think it’s really overgeneralizing saying that all amps sound the same when boosted… I’ve never experienced anything close to that, and owned far too many amps.

It’s closer to true when you’re talking about amp sims, but not real tube amps.

On a related note - it’s 2021, what are people’s favorite boosts currently? Precision Drive? Dirty Tree? Plumes?


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## Krauthammer (Aug 31, 2021)

When I got my boost pedal, it was like the "taking a blanket off the cab" feel. I do run a triple recto with an 8string with lundgren, and have for the last 14 years. 

The Xotic EP Booster is what I use, and its always on for channel 3. I've tried the ibanez tubescreamer and did not care for whatever came out. The Xotic seems to elevate my tone without colouring, and really makes the chugs thump and fast notes to cut through. There are 2 DIP switches inside, I forget exactly what they do, but I think I have the the 2nd one up and the 1st down. 

If its wrong to boost, I do not want to be right


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## Azarea (Aug 31, 2021)

Depends on the amp I guess ? I've never felt the need to boost my EVH, but boosting an Orange Micro Dark with an OD808 is one of the best metal tones I've ever heard. I'd imagine that extends to the Dark Terror or Dual Dark, I just never had any experience with those. The Micro needs it for me though.


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## Themistocles (Aug 31, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> To the guys who use an EQ to tighten up bottom end ala Tubescreamer; how are you using it? Interested in trying it, because boosting sometimes leads to this type of squish that blurs notes and chords if not done correctly, and I'd like to find new ways of doing it.


I use a lot of gain stages for my distorted sounds... usually 3-4 and for solos 4-5. Generally it starts with an echoplex style boost into the amp preamp for a semi dirty overdive sound. Then in front of that I slam it with a distorion I like. For leads I often add even another (usually with germaniums because its just better and more variable from day to day). Usually ends up sounding like 2 black holes fisting each other. ummm so yeah, its heavy. I use different amps some class A, and Orange rockerverb etc.


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## Krauthammer (Aug 31, 2021)

Just throw an Xotic EP boost in your rig and you will be like' "fuck why has this not been in my rig??". It cleans up nicely with some punch


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## Themistocles (Sep 1, 2021)

Krauthammer said:


> Just throw an Xotic EP boost in your rig and you will be like' "fuck why has this not been in my rig??". It cleans up nicely with some punch


Yup, 9 times out of 10 its the one I go for. Rockabilly, djent, doom... whatever it delivers just change the host amp to what's needed


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## nightlight (Sep 1, 2021)

Themistocles said:


> Usually ends up sounding like 2 black holes fisting each other.



I had to read up on this. Apparently, the "note" of a black hole is the deepest ever detected from any object in our Universe.


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## Themistocles (Sep 1, 2021)

Lol... I am a writer and I like to get arcane with language. The Sunn model T's power tubes cranked do something sooooo massive. Here's a reference 

btw "2 black holes fisting" may have brought up some uhhh deep stuff from the internet. I figure anyone on a 7 string forum is pretty adult but yeah you might not be able to unsee that.


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 1, 2021)

I just didn’t even look at the 1st post. 

Boost. Always. BOOST


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## Goniochromism (Sep 1, 2021)

I love me some boosters, i don't have the best head/amp but; i use a boost pedal, overdrive and distortion in front of the distortion side of the amp, using a mild and moderated amount of each of these coupled with a rolled back amount of distortion from my head and an eq in the fx chain, gives a way more bitey and aggressive sounding tone without having to use large amounts of unwanted mids.


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## WarMachine (Sep 2, 2021)

One of the single largest improvements or changes to any amp is a different cab/IR. Get that right and it will do more for an amp than any pedal.


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## Boris_VTR (Sep 2, 2021)

Could be also the tuning of the guitar. E standard (and even D standard) are just fine unboosted. Lower tuning with bass string...yeah I can see it being a must almost. I still like to fire SD-1/MXR M78 custom badass once in a while


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## michael_bolton (Sep 2, 2021)

boosting fuzz (pretty much all of them) or rat-style pedals sounds great to my ear. amps - not my thing at least for the amps I have (ironball and 5150).


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## Guitarjon (Sep 3, 2021)

I'm currently working on the next episode with my Orange Rockerverb 50 MKIII and a baritone guitar. It's turning out to be very interesting indeed.... I'll post it here when it's done. Hopefully early next week!


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## Wrecklyss (Sep 3, 2021)

It depends on who I play with. In a smaller 3 piece, I like running my Recto loose and unboosted. It's a lot of low end that shouldn't work on paper, but it feels awesome in the room. Playing in larger groups, a boost (or better yet, EQ pedal) tightens up the sound allowing more room for everyone else. Solos should cut through a mix, but everything else needs to work in the larger ecosystem.


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## Guitarjon (Sep 7, 2021)

Hey everyone! Here's a new episode! This one focuses on the Orange Rockerverb 50 MKIII and the Laney BCC Steelpark boost pedal. I used a PRS SE Mike Mushok Baritone this time. Sounds AWESOME!


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## DeathByButterslax (Sep 7, 2021)

Both sound good, but I’m not hearing a huge difference for either.


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## Guitarjon (Sep 7, 2021)

DeathByButterslax said:


> Both sound good, but I’m not hearing a huge difference for either.



I can hear a pretty big difference especially during the isolated A/B comparison, the chords with the mutes mostly.


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## DeathByButterslax (Sep 7, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> I can hear a pretty big difference especially during the isolated A/B comparison, the chords with the mutes mostly.


Yeah I only listened to the mix, the non-boosted sounds better IMO


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## Guitarjon (Sep 7, 2021)

DeathByButterslax said:


> Yeah I only listened to the mix, the non-boosted sounds better IMO



The unboosted does have that sort of sludgy Orange magic, I agree that it's hard to beat. But then again, the pedal ads a very nice clarity and tightness that works really well in the mix. I was expecting to have a better idea of what I preferred. This time I can't decide which one is better...


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## thebeesknees22 (Sep 7, 2021)

on first listen i liked the non boosted better. Isolated definitely non boosted, but in the mix the boosted seemed to sit a tad better on a second listen. I think it's just a matter of taste in the end on this one ha


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## Guitarjon (Sep 7, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> on first listen i liked the non boosted better. Isolated definitely non boosted, but in the mix the boosted seemed to sit a tad better on a second listen. I think it's just a matter of taste in the end on this one ha



Yeah, it's a close call in terms of 'what is better', agreed!


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## Accoun (Sep 7, 2021)

I think I would have to listen again, but the so far I'd say baritone and the riffs you played seem to lend themselves to not boosting? Wonder what I'd think with a standard guitar. 
Not a huge difference (in terms of being categorically better) anyway. Felt like with the 5150 I had stronger feelings.


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## Themistocles (Sep 7, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> I can hear a pretty big difference especially during the isolated A/B comparison, the chords with the mutes mostly.


Im listening with some decent earphones but not ones I use for mixing and the difference is huge. The non boosted in this case is better. The chords are more dimensional and dynamic. The transients are jucier and the decays do all these crazy harmonic gnashing. Id Im recording a session or running live sound I would prefer no boost. One does not chose an orange rockerverb to tame or control it! If you want it to sit better in the mix just use some EQ in the mix not the leashed version with a boost. Mind you you could just lower your pickups a little with the boost and some of what it drains will come back. But no boost is a great tone... boosted is a good tone with some meaningless articulation and more compression. It just doesnt breathe the same dragonbreath of the non boosted.


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## Emperoff (Sep 7, 2021)

I'm usually on the "don't boost" camp for rythms, but my lead tone is based on Victory Kraken's CH1 boosted (which is a low gain channel). It sounds massively THICK.

I prefer CH2 unboosted for rythms, though. It is plenty tight already.


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## laxu (Sep 8, 2021)

Isolated I liked the Rockerverb better without the boost but in the mix I felt the boost added that little bit of extra clarity that works great.

That's why with lots of guitar stuff how it's used will matter.


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## torchlord (Sep 9, 2021)

I've never messed much with an added boost from a petal. I use H&K Coreblade or Switchblade and generally have never felt the need to do this trick because one of the channels is fat and thick and the other that is generally used for leads is not fat and thick, so you can tighten up if you need to by switching channels. There is a boost though and that will accomplish the same thing if I use it. H&K amps are pretty bright so it is usually a matter of tweaking the EQ settings a bit and you get tight tones easy. 

I've also come to the conclusion if you have the wrong pickup and speaker to work with your amp you might have trouble getting that attack just by using your EQ settings on the amp.


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## drb (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm usually quite firmly in the compressed and boosted camp but with the Rockerverb I really liked the unboosted tone for anything apart from palm mutes. If you could somehow have the angry boosted palm mutes but non-boosted everything else it would be perfect.

I'm glad you already did the Helix Mandarin Rocker vs Rockerverb comparison video or this would be another amp on the bucket list because of you. Hopefully my little HX Stomp can hold off the GAS for a while.


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## Emperoff (Sep 9, 2021)

torchlord said:


> I use H&K Coreblade or Switchblade and generally have never felt the need to do this trick because one of the channels is fat and thick and the other that is generally used for leads is not fat and thick, so you can tighten up if you need to by switching channels.



Same thing with my Engl. Never had the need of a boost since CH3 is massively tight already (I actually have the bass almost dimed!). CH4 is fatter and more compressed, so that becomes the lead channel. Never had an issue.


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## Guitarjon (Sep 9, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Same thing with my Engl. Never had the need of a boost since CH3 is massively tight already. CH4 is fatter and more compressed, so that becomes the lead channel. Never had an issue.



All the ENGLs I've tried just don't need a boost...


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## Guitarjon (Sep 29, 2021)

Here's a new one with the Marshall DSL50 and 2 boost pedals; the Maxon OD808 and the Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive:


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## thebeesknees22 (Sep 29, 2021)

The DSL is definitely an amp that has to have a boost. (or an eq with a low cut). I have this amp, and it's super flubby on the bottom end without one.


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## gunch (Sep 29, 2021)

I liked the 6505 better unboosted. The clankiness of the pick attack became much more forward with the boost on, which I understand some people want but like, some low end bloom and flub and diminished pick attack is nice in palm mutes.
Now how that translates to more technical arpeggiated chord or string skipping riffs I don't know because you want those higher strings to cut more.


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## Themistocles (Sep 30, 2021)

Just started using a Minos pedal (kind of modernized and more versatile tone bender) as a boost into an Algal Bloom into a matchless model ... almost like like a doomy Brian May... its glorious and tightens things up + great for solos.... can sustain a note for a month if you want to.


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## soldierkahn (Oct 1, 2021)

I really struggle to hear the difference in my sound when I use my TS. Im running a modeler of a Dual Rec and a TS in front of it, but to be honest, i struggle to hear any difference in my sound until i set the Tone at like 80%. I leave the Drive at Max, the gain at 0, and shape with the Tone knob. Maybe my TS is just crap but i really struggle to hear a tonal difference until it the Tone knob gets set to about 80-85%. My RGDR4327 has a lot of low end boom from the mahogany, but i dont really hear the TS changing that characteristic much until i get way up there.....

maybe im coming at it all wrong?


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## Themistocles (Oct 1, 2021)

soldierkahn said:


> I really struggle to hear the difference in my sound when I use my TS. Im running a modeler of a Dual Rec and a TS in front of it, but to be honest, i struggle to hear any difference in my sound until i set the Tone at like 80%. I leave the Drive at Max, the gain at 0, and shape with the Tone knob. Maybe my TS is just crap but i really struggle to hear a tonal difference until it the Tone knob gets set to about 80-85%. My RGDR4327 has a lot of low end boom from the mahogany, but i dont really hear the TS changing that characteristic much until i get way up there.....
> 
> maybe im coming at it all wrong?


The modeler could be part of the issue as the TS loads the input stage... every modeler is different.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 1, 2021)

soldierkahn said:


> I really struggle to hear the difference in my sound when I use my TS. Im running a modeler of a Dual Rec and a TS in front of it, but to be honest, i struggle to hear any difference in my sound until i set the Tone at like 80%. I leave the Drive at Max, the gain at 0, and shape with the Tone knob. Maybe my TS is just crap but i really struggle to hear a tonal difference until it the Tone knob gets set to about 80-85%. My RGDR4327 has a lot of low end boom from the mahogany, but i dont really hear the TS changing that characteristic much until i get way up there.....
> 
> maybe im coming at it all wrong?



Honestly it depends on everything. I don't use modelers but I know that every boost/drive/dirt pedal interacts with every amp differently, I can only assume the same is true of modelers. Not sure what you have access to but RAT (any kind), BD2, and Longsword are all pedals I have had a lot of success with as TS alternates. Maybe you (or your robot amp) just need a different flavor.


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## that short guy (Oct 2, 2021)

I absolutely love using a clean boost/preamp/EQ pedal Infront of my amp to help tighten things up and give the perception of more gain. So something like a Pepers Pedals dirty tree, Fortin Blade, Boss 10 band EQ.

But I generally do not like putting overdrives in front of an amp because they tend color the amp one way or another and I personally don't go for that for the exception of some lead tones


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## Guitarjon (Oct 14, 2021)

Here's a new episode! This time with the Friedman JJ JR! It's a bit subtle this time but still substantial enough to warrant a boost imho. Check it out:


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## DeathByButterslax (Oct 14, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> Here's a new episode! This time with the Friedman JJ JR! It's a bit subtle this time but still substantial enough to warrant a boost imho. Check it out:



Sounds much better without IMO, also I’m not a fan of the way Friedman’s feel with a boost, gets really squashed


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## LCW (Oct 14, 2021)

Classic boosts  …


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## odibrom (Oct 14, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> Here's a new episode! This time with the Friedman JJ JR! It's a bit subtle this time but still substantial enough to warrant a boost imho. Check it out:





Once again, nice video...

I was thinking that you could eventually de-rail the videos and create a twin brother... Let me explain, I know you record a DI and then reamp things... which is great for the idea. You'd filme yourself playing in one side of the amp and then, on the other you'd record yourself tweaking on the knobs of the pedals and amps... ... camera should be steady and when video editing you'd mix both footage into one so you'd appear twice... talking to yourself and to the viewers at the same time...  that would be funny...


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## gunch (Oct 14, 2021)

Jon you should do an analog transistor amp in this series if you have one, a Randall, an ISP Theta or one of the better Crates


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## Guitarjon (Dec 2, 2021)

Hey all,

Here's a new episode with the Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier:


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 2, 2021)

gunch said:


> Jon you should do an analog transistor amp in this series if you have one, a Randall, an ISP Theta or one of the better Crates



As someone who previously owned a ISP Theta, those things take boosts REALLY good. Hell I used the preamp section like a clean boost.


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## youngthrasher9 (Dec 2, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> As someone who previously owned a ISP Theta, those things take boosts REALLY good. Hell I used the preamp section like a clean boost.


Agreed. The pedal and the head both loved boosts.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 2, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> Agreed. The pedal and the head both loved boosts.



I already talked about the Friedman JJ100 being a bucket list amp, but the ISP Theta rack preamp and head are up there as well.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 2, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Here's a new episode with the Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier:




I actually dug how it sounded unboosted. Both sound great for their own reasons. Unboosted reminded me of that late '90s - 2000s Nu metal/alt metal/post grunge wall of sound, while boosted reminded me of the 2000s boosted metalcore tones.


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## youngthrasher9 (Dec 2, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I already talked about the Friedman JJ100 being a bucket list amp, but the ISP Theta rack preamp and head are up there as well.


The head was a monster but I ultimately sold it because I wanted to try fuzzes and it hated fuzz. I wish I would have kept it because the fuzz thing was phase…


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## Guitarjon (Dec 30, 2021)

Hey dudes,

Here's a new episode with the DSL20HR and the Boss SD-1. Sounds pretty nasty imho!


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## thebeesknees22 (Dec 30, 2021)

Guitarjon said:


> Hey dudes,
> 
> Here's a new episode with the DSL20HR and the Boss SD-1. Sounds pretty nasty imho!





sounds great dude!


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## Guitarjon (Feb 22, 2022)

Here's a new one:


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## thebeesknees22 (Feb 22, 2022)

mmmm tough one. I actually think I prefer the mt15 with no boost in that vid. 

It's just beefier in a good way.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 22, 2022)

Like before I don't have any strong preference? The boosted tone is still awesome for that tight metalcore/modern thrash sound, while unboosted sounds great for that nu metal-y, post-grunge Breaking Benjamin/Chevelle deep sound. 

Also Jon did you notice any tonal improvement upgrading the stock Mushok bridge to the Hipshot Gibraltar bridge? Just caught that.


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## Guitarjon (Feb 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like before I don't have any strong preference? The boosted tone is still awesome for that tight metalcore/modern thrash sound, while unboosted sounds great for that nu metal-y, post-grunge Breaking Benjamin/Chevelle deep sound.
> 
> Also Jon did you notice any tonal improvement upgrading the stock Mushok bridge to the Hipshot Gibraltar bridge? Just caught that.



The previous owner made all the mods so I can't say anything about it tbh. I doubt it would make much of a difference tbh.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Feb 22, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> A LOT of players, especially in the metal genre, like to use boost or overdrive pedals in front of their (high gain) amps to make them sound more tight, focused and aggressive/percussive. I usually prefer the sound of my tube amps pure, so without a boost. I tend to prefer the more natural and thick response, depending on the amp of course. In my opinion amps retain their unique character more without a boost up front....
> 
> ...



I like the videos you do, and while I haven’t seen this yet, I’m curious if you could do a video using a DS-1 as a boost if you haven’t already. I’m thinking a crunchy Plexi, and then the DS-1 ups the saturation and gain, with the distortion knob around 9:00 to 10:30.


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## ATRguitar91 (Feb 22, 2022)

As always, I prefer it with the boost in front. It sounds good both ways, but I'm an always boost player.


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## Guitarjon (Mar 26, 2022)

Here's a new one focusing on the "controversial" blue channel of the EVH 5150III 50w EL34 using the Pepers Dirty Tree:


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 26, 2022)

...Why did the boost turn it into a completely new amp?  Like not only did it add output and tightness, but seemed to make the amp sound a LOT more midrangey.


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## Guitarjon (Mar 26, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ...Why did the boost turn it into a completely new amp?  Like not only did it add output and tightness, but seemed to make the amp sound a LOT more midrangey.


I agree that the results were really extreme this time. Haha, kind of crazy!


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## AMOS (Mar 26, 2022)

I like the Gain Boost in my Engl, but I don't use any pedals for it.


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## youngthrasher9 (Mar 26, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like before I don't have any strong preference? The boosted tone is still awesome for that tight metalcore/modern thrash sound, while unboosted sounds great for that nu metal-y, post-grunge Breaking Benjamin/Chevelle deep sound.
> 
> Also Jon did you notice any tonal improvement upgrading the stock Mushok bridge to the Hipshot Gibraltar bridge? Just caught that.


I know I’m super late to the party. But that being said, I swapped my Mushok’s bridge for a hipshot when I owned one. It most definitely changed the tone, for the better imo. It sounded more lively and a tad brighter to my ears. It was a great improvement imho.


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## profwoot (Mar 26, 2022)

Our very own Uncle Ben just did a video on boost pedals that I found clarifying.


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## Emperoff (Mar 26, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> Here's a new one focusing on the "controversial" blue channel of the EVH 5150III 50w EL34 using the Pepers Dirty Tree:




There is actually a mod to "Fix it" (from the amp designer itself). Just clip or remove capacitor 137 and it gets it back in line with the other versions.

More info here:





5150 50w EL34 C137 Mod vs Stealth Blue Channels


Threw together a quick cell phone video of the two, compared. I'd been receiving a lot of requests to show the differences after the C137 mod, but I didn't take a before video because, frankly, I couldn't wait to get rid of the stock blue channel on the EL34 Now, they're much more in line with...




www.sevenstring.org


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## Matt08642 (Mar 26, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> Here's a new one focusing on the "controversial" blue channel of the EVH 5150III 50w EL34 using the Pepers Dirty Tree:




I still don't understand the hate for the EL34 Blue channel lol, sounds good to me!


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## Emperoff (Mar 26, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> I still don't understand the hate for the EL34 Blue channel lol, sounds good to me!



Because it was tweaked to please the early Van Halen crowd that found the 5150 III too "modern", and not suitable for early VH tones. They changed it on the EL34 (since it was the most "british sounding" one), and then every single metal player that used the blue channel boosted for rythms started to complain


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Mar 26, 2022)

Or, to tighten up, you could just lower the bass knob.


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## youngthrasher9 (Mar 26, 2022)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Or, to tighten up, you could just lower the bass knob.


This shit does not work as intended on like 70% of the amps I’ve owned. Some of them just get thin not tight, some the response changes completely etc…


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## GreatGreen (Mar 27, 2022)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Or, to tighten up, you could just lower the bass knob.



That's not how it works. The Bass knob is after preamp gain in the circuit so it won't tighten up anything. Turning it down will just give you the same loose, mushy sound but with less low end content than before.

Clip C137 or find some other pedal that will cut lows from the input, before preamp distortion, and the amp will tighten right up though.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 3, 2022)

I can't find any posts with Search to answer, but my question on this good thread is: There seem to be two root boosts everything is based on? TS and SD-1? What is the MXR M77 base on?


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jul 3, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> I can't find any posts with Search to answer, but my question on this good thread is: There seem to be two root boosts everything is based on? TS and SD-1? What is the MXR M77 base on?


The M77 is a tricked-out SD-1  

There are more "root" circuits than just those two, but the TS family are the most commonly cloned and modified. The only SD-1 variants I can think of are the SD-1 itself, SD-1 Waza, and the MXR M77, Wylde OD, and GT-OD. 

MXR also did the Berzerker OD as an update to the Wylde OD and the Classic Overdrive exclusively with Guitar Center, which had an internal switch to go between the Wylde and GT-OD circuits.


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## Hollowway (Jul 3, 2022)

I don’t know how I’ve missed this thread, but I’ll have to give it a read through. I’ve always avoided boosts, but that probably has a lot to do with playing through a Fryette. I have a 33, but when I boost with that there’s so little low end it sounds ridiculous. 

I DO like the invective MH with the boost and tight engaged, though. That’s a metallic, clanky little djent machine. (Got that due to Jon and Kyle’s vids.)


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 4, 2022)

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> The M77 is a tricked-out SD-1
> 
> There are more "root" circuits than just those two, but the TS family are the most commonly cloned and modified. The only SD-1 variants I can think of are the SD-1 itself, SD-1 Waza, and the MXR M77, Wylde OD, and GT-OD.
> 
> MXR also did the Berzerker OD as an update to the Wylde OD and the Classic Overdrive exclusively with Guitar Center, which had an internal switch to go between the Wylde and GT-OD circuits.


 Awesome, thank you for the run down!


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## BurningRome (Jul 4, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I don’t know how I’ve missed this thread, but I’ll have to give it a read through. I’ve always avoided boosts, but that probably has a lot to do with playing through a Fryette. I have a 33, but when I boost with that there’s so little low end it sounds ridiculous.
> 
> I DO like the invective MH with the boost and tight engaged, though. That’s a metallic, clanky little djent machine. (Got that due to Jon and Kyle’s vids.)


Have owned 20+ Fryette amps and they DO NOT need boosts. I love that amp in it's pure form. Felt the same about the Rivera K-Tre and Orange Thunderverb 200. 

I like using an SD1 with the Marshall JCM2000 DSL on the Green Channel though.


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## sylcfh (Jul 5, 2022)

Engaging the EQ on the Fryette UL is more brutal than any boost I've heard.


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## Kosthrash (Jul 5, 2022)

I don't know if it's already mentioned, but a nice tip for boosting the effects loop of an amp (as long as it has volume pot in the effects loop) is to connect with a cable the effects send with the return and using the effects loop's volume to boost the signal before the power amp. Thus, you won't get more saturation (as of the preamp boost), but the same tone but louder (volume boost), so if you want to get "in front" during a solo for example, you may utilize this "power amp" boost for free...


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## Guitarjon (Jul 26, 2022)

Here's another episode, this one features the PRS Archon 50:


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## gunch (Jul 26, 2022)

Sick thanks Jon


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 26, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> Here's another episode, this one features the PRS Archon 50:



How do you feel about the Revstar? Thinking about grabbing one eventually. 

Even unboosted it sounds fucking mean.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 26, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> How do you feel about the Revstar? Thinking about grabbing one eventually.
> 
> Even unboosted it sounds fucking mean.



Really good guitars for the money and versatile!


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## GreatGreen (Jul 28, 2022)

I almost always have some kind of boost going with virtually any amount of high gain dialed in. I find the more gain is dialed in with an amp, the "flatter" it sounds. Adding a boost is a great way to liven the amp back up and excite it just a bit.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 28, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> I almost always have some kind of boost going with virtually any amount of high gain dialed in. I find the more gain is dialed in with an amp, the "flatter" it sounds. Adding a boost is a great way to liven the amp back up and excite it just a bit.


This is why I have at least 7 or 8 different od pedals. Whenever I use an amp sim, it seems like they all react differently to different pedals. 
With some, a TS9 variant sounds great but with a different pedal, not so much. Take that same TS9 and use it with a different amp and it doesn't sound good at all, whereas the ones that previously didn't sound good, are now great.
It can be kind of fun to mix & match to find the 'perfect combination'.


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## odibrom (Jul 29, 2022)

Spinedriver said:


> This is why I have at least 7 or 8 different od pedals. Whenever I use an amp sim, it seems like they all react differently to different pedals.
> With some, a TS9 variant sounds great but with a different pedal, not so much. Take that same TS9 and use it with a different amp and it doesn't sound good at all, whereas the ones that previously didn't sound good, are now great.
> It can be kind of fun to mix & match to find the 'perfect combination'.


... This is the way...


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## sonoftheoldnorth (Jul 29, 2022)

The Virgin Booster
-Cant play a $3k+ amp without a $70 pedal
-Has 20 of the same TS circuit and thinks they are all different enough to keep
-Will argue with other virgin boosters over minutiae 
-Must consoom 'new' boost pedals (even when the same old TS circuit)
-I'm gonna.... I'm gonna boooooooost!!!

The Plug Straight Into Amp Chad
-Plays any amp straight into the input
-All the gain he needs from amps and aggressive playing style
-Pedals? Never heard of her


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 29, 2022)

I've never been much of a boost user since I play 5150II, III and Mesa Mark amps. Those don't need boosts. But now that I'm a Rectifier owner, I suddenly have 6 OD pedals to match with the amp. Has been a fun 3 months, to be honest. These things are relatively new to me.


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## Guitarjon (Aug 9, 2022)

Here's one featuring the Laney Ironheart 60 and the BCC Steelpark:


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