# NGD- Fanned 6 String (canadian BRJ!?)



## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Picked this up today. Kinda pissed off though because the seller omitted several significant problems with it and I only found out about them now...

Anyways, the guitar plays well other than a dead spots on the 4th fret, however its not what I'd expect from a CS instrument. I'm ok with that though because I just wanted to try a fanned instrument on the cheap.

The fan was very easy to get used to as its only 1", the guitar sounds pretty good too. Not sure what pickups are in there but I called the luthier earlier today and he was a super nice guy, he asked me to email him so I'll find about a few things soon. One of the weirder things I'm curious about is why the guitar has no truss rod, but the neck is still dead straight. Its an older instrument too IIRC.

Here are pics:


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## Miek (Mar 9, 2013)

Well it's a guitar


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## Watty (Mar 9, 2013)

If there's one thing my time on CL has shown me, it's that you should typically stay away from guitars inlaid with Abalone. That aside, cool being able to try a fan fret on the cheap.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Watty said:


> If there's one thing my time on CL has shown me, it's that you should typically stay away from guitars inlaid with Abalone. That aside, cool being able to try a fan fret on the cheap.



Hehe, yeah! 


Im lucky im not out too much cash or anything so I can laugh about it but I did tell the seller I either want a complete refund or a couple hundred back as he completely neglected to mention some important things. I even have a text from him saying "yeah there are no issues at all!"


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## engage757 (Mar 9, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Hehe, yeah!
> 
> 
> Im lucky im not out too much cash or anything so I can laugh about it but I did tell the seller I either want a complete refund or a couple hundred back as he completely neglected to mention some important things. I even have a text from him saying "yeah there are no issues at all!"



Get a full refund back and send him a bill for taking it off his hands. 

Happy new... Well, hope you enjoy it at any rate bro!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Its cool, if he doesnt be reasonable then I'm just going to file a police report. I know he's moving at the end of the month to australia and if I do file he can have fun trying to leave the country when he is in trouble with the law


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## Underworld (Mar 9, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Its cool, if he doesnt be reasonable then I'm just going to file a police report. I know he's moving at the end of the month to australia and if I do file he can have fun trying to leave the country when he is in trouble with the law




That, sir, is well played! Keep as As in your sleeve!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

He just called me saying he will probably refund or do a partial, im cool with either!


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## knifefightintheor (Mar 9, 2013)

Very nice. I just wish fanned fret guitars didn't intimidate me so much.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Yeah I was worried about not liking them because I have a vik on order with a bigger fan but I actually love them. Makes big reaches easy!


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 9, 2013)

You buy guitars almost more often than I buy groceries. HNGD.


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## skeels (Mar 9, 2013)

Man, Vancouver looks really pretty...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Pics of flaws for anyone interested:
























Again, this kid told me the guitar was dead mint 

He is either really fucking stupid or trying to pull a fast one on me, either way I think ill be fine. The reason I didnt see those flaws earlier today is because I was in a rush and had left work really quick to grab it. The route for the bridge is also oversized badly and looks like a gopher did it. Even my younger brother noticed it.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 9, 2013)

^Invictus?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Well I actually called the luthier and hes a super nice guy, he was busy and told me to shoot him an email so I did. I dont think he charged much for this initially or it may have been a prototype.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 9, 2013)

Alright the seller has basically told me tough luck amd said i inspected it before hand, which i did albeit briefly. I assumed when he texted me saying "its flawless" that it was actually flawless. Now hes saying none of the issues i pointed out are significant and you'd have to look closely to see them and he was right in declaring the guitar free of flaws. 

To me those are very serious flaws, i will be filing tomorrow with the police, does anyone know what this crime would be called?


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## sibanez29 (Mar 9, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> does anyone know what this crime would be called?


 
Movin' like Bernie?


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 9, 2013)

Dude, crime? 

Buyer's remorse isn't a crime, nor is your failure to look at what you were purchasing. Arguing about material misrepresentations and fraud will only get you somewhere in a pay grade much higher than yours.

You signed on to an in-person deal (I'm guessing cash) for a secondhand instrument. He didn't provide any return policy (and is not obligated to provide one) and you had a chance to inspect it before accepting. You didn't check it closely. You're not an unsophisticated buyer of guitars, so it's not like you wouldn't be able to see any flaws.

It sucks, dude, but take it as a learning experience.  The police are going to laugh at you for trying to press charges, and any small claims judge worth their salt will only at most give you a few bucks back.


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## engage757 (Mar 9, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> Dude, crime?
> 
> Buyer's remorse isn't a crime, nor is your failure to look at what you were purchasing. Arguing about material misrepresentations and fraud will only get you somewhere in a pay grade much higher than yours.
> 
> ...



With all due respect bro. I don't know where your legal info is coming from. The seller represented the item as flawless, upon closer scrutiny it was not. Not even close. He most definitely can file charges on him. It has been done for far less.
It is at the very minimum misrepresentation, and a text message is a communication. Mehtab entered into a verbal agreement to purchase a "flawless" instrument. No matter what happened when they met, the item was misrepresented and this constitues a rescission of verbal agreement. Misrepresentation = false pretenses, which equals fraud.


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## theoctopus (Mar 10, 2013)

The police report probably isn't going to get you much of anywhere, unfortunately. You had the opportunity to inspect the instrument before purchase, and chose to buy the guitar after the inspection. If it was criminally negligent, then that's a different story, but I'm not sure it was in this case.

Either way, it sounds like the luthier might be wiling to help you make it right. That's gotta count for something.


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## wannabguitarist (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> With all due respect bro. I don't know where your legal info is coming from. The seller represented the item as flawless, upon closer scrutiny it was not. Not even close. He most definitely can file charges on him. It has been done for far less.
> It is at the very minimum misrepresentation, and a text message is a communication. Mehtab entered into a verbal agreement to purchase a "flawless" instrument. No matter what happened when they met, the item was misrepresented and this constitues a rescission of verbal agreement. Misrepresentation = false pretenses, which equals fraud.



I think the issue is he had a chance to look at the guitar before purchasing it and he failed to take advantage of it. Sure he entered a verbal agreement lol to buy a flawless instrument but because he gave the seller the cash and received the guitar in person I don't think he really has any ground to stand on.

All the seller has to do is say "well, he looked at it before he gave me the cash and decided it was ok." Unless things are vastly different in the Great White North of course.

Sucks dude, but you should have checked it out before you paid the guy. Filing a police report at this point would just be a dick move on your part. Everyone gets swindled at some point


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> With all due respect bro. I don't know where your legal info is coming from. The seller represented the item as flawless, upon closer scrutiny it was not. Not even close. He most definitely can file charges on him. It has been done for far less.
> It is at the very minimum misrepresentation, and a text message is a communication. Mehtab entered into a verbal agreement to purchase a "flawless" instrument. No matter what happened when they met, the item was misrepresented and this constitues a rescission of verbal agreement. Misrepresentation = false pretenses, which equals fraud.



I love when people say "with all due respect." Because you know they are immediately going to disrespect you  

I don't know what it's like in Canada, but in the US there's absolutely nothing "criminal" here that would require filing charges with the police. Nothing here would count as a criminal act in New York, for example. 

This is a simple civil contract case, and outside of small claims court and trying to get the kid to give him a refund independently, legal remedies would require far more money than this guitar is worth.

Also, just FYI, "misrepresentation" =/= "material misrepresentation" =/= "fraud." There are major differences of degree, and each is a term of art.

Finally, from a legal perspective, it's hard to argue that Stealth "relied" on a material misrepresentation of flawlessness when he was given a chance to visually inspect the goods before purchase. Judges tend to take a dim view of people alleging breach of contract to get out of their own bad decisions. 

I'm not saying the kid is blameless, but people misrepresenting the conditions of gear on Craigslist is pretty much the nature of the game; it's buyer beware. It's a shitty situation to be sure. I've had shit like this get pulled on me. It sucks. But, my point stands. You're not going to get anything from the police; your best hope is to haul the guy into small claims court and see if you can't get a few bucks back. :-/


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

Im not really expecting anything of it but im going to file charges anyways and hopefully it will make it hard for him to leave the country like he intends at the end of the month. It would be hilarious to force him to miss his planned flights.


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## AVH (Mar 10, 2013)

There is a difference between 'flaws', and 'sloppy workmanship'. Flaws are the calculable, rudimentary mistakes that inherently affect the actual play-ability or tune-ability of an instrument. From the pics, it just looks like some of the latter to me.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

Dead frets?


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## Breakdown (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> With all due respect bro. I don't know where your legal info is coming from. The seller represented the item as flawless, upon closer scrutiny it was not. Not even close. He most definitely can file charges on him. It has been done for far less.
> It is at the very minimum misrepresentation, and a text message is a communication. Mehtab entered into a verbal agreement to purchase a "flawless" instrument. No matter what happened when they met, the item was misrepresented and this constitues a rescission of verbal agreement. Misrepresentation = false pretenses, which equals fraud.



*Ad:
"I am in posession of a custom made guitar, from the workshop of: Art Abrahams.
It is made out of Walnut and has a very nice shine to it
Humbucker Pickups
Plays very nicely
Two patchchords included
Fan fret design (made to enhance your bar chord experience!)
Comes with a Line 6 Spider 3, 15 watt amp, very portable and really light! (Great for those walk-to lessons!)
Comes with a Gator case ($200 value in itself)
Moving to Australia next month so need to get this outta my house ASAP!"
*

In the US this would be a civil issue not a criminal one, meaning police would not get involved, this would go through small claims court and even then he'd have a hard time winning. The ad is technically not fraudulent since nowhere in the ad does it say it is in perfect condition and since how nice a guitar plays is subjective to each player, he could argue that in his opinion, it played "nicely". The facts are that Stealth: willingly gave the seller money for the guitar even after inspecting it, and he did so without any sort of written return agreement or guarantee, which, in the US at least (although I wouldn't be surprised if Canada'as law is similar) would not look good to a judge. He can sue, but if he went to the police here, they would just tell him where to file a claim against them.

@ Stealth,
Does your situation suck? Of course it does, but honestly if you tell the judge that it was a misrepresented item and that it has very serious flaws, after the seller tells him/her that you had a chance to and did, look at it before buying, their going to ask why ,if they were so serious, you didn't notice them before and agreed to pay for the guitar. Best of luck to you though man.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

Well like I said he did text me back sayin the guitar was absolutely flawless and I have that text. Im not out a ton of money or anything so its less about that and more about this jackass trying to pull a fast one. 

What if I was some kid that just started playing? Hell I even told this guy to keep that amp because I really didnt want it and the patch chords.

Im lucky its a lesson learned on the cheap though


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## SkullCrusher (Mar 10, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Alright the seller has basically told me tough luck amd said i inspected it before hand, which i did albeit briefly. I assumed when he texted me saying "its flawless" that it was actually flawless. Now hes saying none of the issues i pointed out are significant and you'd have to look closely to see them and he was right in declaring the guitar free of flaws.
> 
> To me those are very serious flaws, i will be filing tomorrow with the police, does anyone know what this crime would be called?



Fight mis-sold goods with a violence.


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## theoctopus (Mar 10, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Im lucky its a lesson learned on the cheap though



Then let it go. You're going to do nothing but inconvenience yourself by filing a police report and/or trying to take him to court. Quite frankly, now that you have publicly stated online that your primary intention is to prevent him from being able to complete his planned move to Australia, there's a strong possibility that he could (successfully) countersue you. You have a lot more to lose than he does. No point in editing previous posts either, because what's done is done. You have no idea whether he's been here, monitoring this thread and printing it out for a record. Unlikely, of course, but possible Your best bet is to learn your lesson, eat the mistake, and move on.

Sorry dude. It's shitty to be burned like that. I remember buying a Fernandes Vertigo Elite from eBay when I was 14, having saved up for one all summer. It was a total POS when I received it, with electronics that didn't work, rusted hardware, warped neck, unplayable frets. The only thing that saved my ass is that it had been clearly misrepresented in the eBay auction, and that I had not had a chance to inspect it prior to payment and delivery. You don't have that luxury.


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## rekab (Mar 10, 2013)

You may want to question anyone's judgment on quality gear when they are trying to include cables and a spider 15w amp as an added value 
As for filing charges/etc: Unless you paid a few grand, you're time is likely better spent fixing the issues. Revenge isn't the answer. An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

To be fair I was playing through a vox practice amp when i had my vik and am still playing a caparison into it haha.

Anyways i talked to the luthier and there actually is a truss rod, heres what he said:

"Your guitar is one of the first two six string, fretted guitars I ever built. The top (from bout to center) is black walnut, flamed maple in a padauk channel, walnut, purpleheart and honduran mahogany (from before they banned it). The back is also hondo mahogany and the fretboard is padauk. It does, in fact have a very strong 'over/under' rod in it. To adjust it you have to take the neck pickup out.



The bridge was hand cut from steel stock. The pickups are high end, but of asian origin (apparently a buy-out supplier of mine made after a major manufacturer walked out on a deal when they cancelled a new model..) I had several sets of them and was pretty impressed."





Not quite as mad now but in still going to file a report, and successfully suing/counter suing in canada rarely happens, not a risk.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 10, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Im not really expecting anything of it but im going to file charges anyways and hopefully it will make it hard for him to leave the country like he intends at the end of the month. It would be hilarious to force him to miss his planned flights.



This would make you quite the shitty person.


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## HighGain510 (Mar 10, 2013)

As everyone else has already said, a text message claiming it was "flawless" likely won't count for shit since you inspected it in person AFTER he sent you that message. If you try to take this to court and there were all these problems with the guitar when you picked it up, the judge will likely tell you that you had your chance to back out when you met with the guy and saw the guitar in person.  

PRO-TIP: Any time someone is pairing up a "custom guitar" with two "patchcords" a Line 6 Spider practice amp, you should probably assume that the guitar is not going to be the highest quality guitar out there and give it a double-check if you're even entertaining the idea of buying from the guy.  The fact that the guy also didn't list ANY of the specs should have been a dead giveaway that the guitar might have been less-than-amazing or the guy didn't have a clue...  

Honestly trying to sue him or file a police report because you didn't check out the guitar well enough when you picked it up from him seems a bit ridiculous at this point, especially since you knew going into the deal the guy was moving to Australia so trying to hold that over his head by attempting to cause him legal trouble is pretty messed up, IMO.


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## mphsc (Mar 10, 2013)

Those dots are a crime.


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## MJS (Mar 10, 2013)

One thing that wouldn't work in your favor, since you had time to inspect the guitar, is that some of the flaws look more like damage (crack & chips), so it's his word against yours on whether it was already like that or if you did it after you bought it. 

In a courtroom, I think he'd probably win. He could just say something like, "I sold him a nice guitar, which he inspected and was very happy with it. In fact, he loved it so much that he told me I could keep the extras I was throwing in with the deal. Then, later he suddenly claims a a bunch of very obvious damage that he did to it must have been there all along? If he wins this, I'll be out the money and he will have damaged my guitar without consequence."

In reality though, he probably did know about the flaws since he originally offered to help out... then backed out of it later.


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

MJS said:


> One thing that wouldn't work in your favor, since you had time to inspect the guitar, is that some of the flaws look more like damage (crack & chips), so it's his word against yours on whether it was already like that or if you did it after you bought it.
> 
> In a courtroom, I think he'd probably win. He could just say something like, "I sold him a nice guitar, which he inspected and was very happy with it. In fact, he loved it so much that he told me I could keep the extras I was throwing in with the deal. Then, later he suddenly claims a a bunch of very obvious damage that he did to it must have been there all along? If he wins this, I'll be out the money and he will have damaged my guitar without consequence."
> 
> In reality though, he probably did know about the flaws since he originally offered to help out... then backed out of it later.



The texts would kill his case. Offering to help out then turning it down is an admission of guilt, or could be viewed that way. Stealth could say in a courtroom that the guy held it and didn't allow him to properly check it out, rushed him along and ten left in a hurry. 

Still his word against the guy's. And any person that has the slightest bit of common sense can see those issues didn't happen in an hour.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 10, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Im not really expecting anything of it but im going to file charges anyways and hopefully it will make it hard for him to leave the country like he intends at the end of the month. It would be hilarious to force him to miss his planned flights.



Dude are you serious? Over a used guitar with some (fixable) issues? 

I mean you have SO MUCH gear (and you probably won't even have this guitar for long, which....no judgement but come on). Was this really such a massive inconvenience that some scumbag lied about the condition of an instrument?  I suggest picking up one of your other pristine axes. I'm sure you'll feel better.

Plus I guarantee the cops won't waste their time. They have actual crime to fight.


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## -42- (Mar 10, 2013)

I'm not big on the guitar as a whole, but those pickup rings bro...


...brutal


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> The texts would kill his case. Offering to help out then turning it down is an admission of guilt, or could be viewed that way. Stealth could say in a courtroom that the guy held it and didn't allow him to properly check it out, rushed him along and ten left in a hurry.
> 
> Still his word against the guy's. And any person that has the slightest bit of common sense can see those issues didn't happen in an hour.



Ahh yes, espousing perjury. Judges loooove perjury. 

Plus, even with the "rushed" argument, it doesn't matter. If Stealth didn't like the terms of sale, he could have walked. Again, in general, courts take a dim view of people suing to correct their own bad decisions.

Finally, "offering to help out" is just that: an offer, that the offeror can then revoke. He's under no legal duty to ensure Stealth's satisfaction with his purchase after Stealth inspected and purchased the instrument.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 10, 2013)

Woah Josh, you sound like some kind of law student or something.


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## wannabguitarist (Mar 10, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> I mean you have SO MUCH gear (and you probably won't even have this guitar for long, which....no judgement but come on). Was this really such a massive inconvenience that some scumbag lied about the condition of an instrument?  I suggest picking up one of your other pristine axes. I'm sure you'll feel better.



#Richkidproblems


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Woah Josh, you sound like some kind of law student or something.



Well, I sure as hell ain't no lawyer 

Lawyers are too smart to get bogged down in arguments like this!


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 10, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> Lawyers are too smart to get bogged down in arguments like this, without getting paid!



Fixed.


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## MJS (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> The texts would kill his case. Offering to help out then turning it down is an admission of guilt, or could be viewed that way.



He could just say he felt bad and wanted to try helping out, then thought about it some more and realized he was actually getting screwed. I've seen that happen on deals here before.

But... it looks like that offer was a phone call anyway, rather than a text: 



Stealthdjentstic said:


> He just called me saying he will probably refund or do a partial, im cool with either!



So, it looks like the only thing in writing is the condition of the guitar. 

If the guys wants to be a jerk, he'd probably just say that not only did Stealth break his guitar, but now he's lying about phone conversations that never happened. 



engage757 said:


> Stealth could say in a courtroom that the guy held it and didn't allow him to properly check it out, rushed him along and ten left in a hurry.



If he said that, the judge would probably call him an idiot for giving him any money. 

By the way, I believe Stealth 100% and don't think he did any of that, but I don't really think he has much of a case -- and I wouldn't expect a judge to know more about guitars than he does... and he's the one that saw it the way it is and still bought it. 

It would be different if it was sight-unseen over the internet, where you have nothing to go by except for what the seller tells you. You can't even really trust pictures because they might not be recent, but they could say that's what it looked like when it shipped (didn't that happen to a few people on here before? ).

I also don't know what his expenses would be to pursue it, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be worth it. The money would probably be better spent fixing the guitar.


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## Philligan (Mar 10, 2013)

Who uses slotted screws these days?



Stealthdjentstic said:


>


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This would make you quite the shitty person.



Really? Are you kidding me?

Tell me where im being unreasonable:

1. I ask the seller if the guitar im buying is flawless. He responds saying it is indeed flawless.
2. I ditch work for a few minutes to grab it and get the guy his money becaue he said he was moving soon.
3. A few hours later after work i come home to find it has all of those major flaws, so i ask for a refund and offer to meet at his conveniance.
4. Tells me to basically get fucked.



So you SERIOUSLY think im the douche? Im pretty offended Max, you are saying im worse than some shitbag scammer.


Can anyone in this forum say they would pay money for that guitar? A fretjob where I live would be 100-200. After that ill be out a decent chunk of cash and have a guitar that plays like a mid/low level ibanez at best. 

And to you guys saying "lol rich kid problems", I work really hard to buy the gear I have, and when you get not one but two chronic pain conditions going to work isnt just a matter of clocking in and clocking out. Its sitting there for hours and feeling like knives are in your back. I cant even take painkillers im perscribed because they are essentially second rate heroin that makes it impossible to think....and all i do at work is think.

Im filing a report regardless of what anyone here thinks. Nobody fucks me and gets away with it.


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

Everyone just needs to calm down. It really is Stealth's decision. Arguments could be made on either side I am sure, but the guy said he would help, and therefore, he made a verbally binding contract. 

Either way, just stop the useless argument, he is gonna do what he does anyway! No use getting worked up about it. 

Oh yeah, and Mehtab, happy new crap day. 

Couldn't resist!


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

Philligan said:


> Who uses slotted screws these days?



Duh dude. Someone that ran out of drywall screws.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> but the guy said he would help, and therefore, he made a verbally binding contract.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)




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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


>



If Stealth agreed, then it is an oral contract.

Say what you want, but if an offer was made, and then accepted, it becomes an oral contract. And if Mehtab does indeed have text messages confirming this, then it will chances are hold up in court. Text messages are admissable in many states now, not sure about Canada.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

Nope. You're forgetting the third pillar of contract formation 

Offer, acceptance, CONSIDERATION. 

Without consideration, you have a non-binding, unenforceable agreement. 

Further, a valid offer may be revoked by the offeror prior to performance of the contract.


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> Nope. You're forgetting the third pillar of contract formation
> 
> Offer, acceptance, CONSIDERATION.
> 
> Without consideration, you have a non-binding, unenforceable agreement.



But, if the deal was re-opened due to the issue, the transaction was not totally complete it could be argued. Consideration had already taken place with the exchange of item/funds. The deal was re-opened when the guy said he would help.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> But, if the deal was re-opened due to the issue, the transaction was not totally complete it could be argued. Consideration had already taken place with the exchange of item/funds. The deal was re-opened when the guy said he would help.



Nope. No such thing. Performance of the contract of sale ended upon the transfer of the goods for consideration.

Any terms applying to this transaction after the transfer of goods would either have to be explicitly set forth as part of the original agreement, or part of a subsequent, independently valid contract.


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> Nope. No such thing. Performance of the contract of sale ended upon the transfer of the goods for consideration.
> 
> Any terms applying to this transaction after the transfer of goods would either have to be explicitly set forth as part of the original agreement, or part of a subsequent, independently valid contract.



Well, would not the new oral contract be him offering to do a full or partial refund and Mehtab agreeing?


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 10, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Well, would not the new oral contract be him offering to do a full or partial refund and Mehtab agreeing?



No.

(1) There was no consideration, therefore there was no binding contract.
(2) Further, even if there were a binding contract here (there isn't) an offer may be revoked (and thus terminated) any time prior to performance. 

There's more nuance here, but I don't know if Canada has an equivalent to the UCC Firm Offer doctrine, and I'm not sure that a one-time seller of a guitar counts as a "merchant" under the UCC definition anyway.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

Dont worry bitches, i got this on lock down.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

Dont worry guys, my buddy that just wrapped up his law program gave me some advice and I think I'll be set. At any rate Ill report back here in a while once the dust settles.


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## rekab (Mar 10, 2013)

Curiosity is killing me. How much did you pay for it?


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## engage757 (Mar 10, 2013)

rekab said:


> Curiosity is killing me. How much did you pay for it?



Way too much. 

I only get to be a dick because I am talking to Mehtab at the same time. Little Disclaimer.


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## rekab (Mar 10, 2013)

I get that but I'm just wondering what it takes to get him so upset. I'd be pissed if it were expensive enough but if its a few hundred Id have expected there to be some issues regardless of what some character told me via text. I don't care if it was misrepresented or not just wondering what the damage is. Everyone's taking sides in the thread but no one knows if it was one of the too good to be true deals that should have screamed don't buy me or if he got taken for a couple grand on a true ripoff style sale


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 10, 2013)

It was just a couple hundred. Like I said its more about the principle of it. I've refunded someone (CL transaction) just because he said he wasnt jiving with the guitar and he didnt even ask for a refund. I always try to add people on FB before/after sales and I was asking how he liked it and he said he wasnt digging it so I went to his place and gave him his money back right away.

Nothing upsets me more than making people unhappy, its just not worth the bad blood!


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## rekab (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm with you there. I would accept a return myself but wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't do the same for me. Sounds like the price was in line with quality. Hopefully you'll cool down and find the upside to it all. It would be a golden opportunity to learn fretwork


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 11, 2013)

I was thinking about that, I have another spare neck lying around I could practice on first...

That being said I may also just disclose the faults and get rid of it for cheap like ELQ did with his faulty rico.



















Or just burn it.


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## Erazoender (Mar 11, 2013)

You have a fireplace right?

You'll have some kindling for the winter at least.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 11, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Really?



Yes really. You're basically saying that just because you fucked up that you're going to mess with this kid's life. That makes you a dick. 

You fucked up man. Admit it. You didn't properly inspect the instrument and are now falling back on weak "contract" arguments that really either don't apply or won't help you in the least given the circumstances. 

Personally, _I'm_ offended that you'd take it to this level.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 11, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yes really. You're basically saying that just because you fucked up that you're going to mess with this kid's life. That makes you a dick.
> 
> You fucked up man. Admit it. You didn't properly inspect the instrument and are now falling back on weak "contract" arguments that really either don't apply or won't help you in the least given the circumstances.
> 
> Personally, _I'm_ offended that you'd take it to this level.


 
How many MORE times can I like this?

I mean seriously dude. Over a couple hundred bucks? I wouldn't even do that and 200 bucks is a not insignificant for me.

EDIT: Also OP nobody is belittling or trying to marginalize your pain issues. That does indeed suck and I'm sorry, but I encourage you to be the bigger man and not mess with this kid's life over a flawed guitar. Pursue him for a refund? Sure. Small claims? Sure. But don't try to put him on the lam. You are being overly harsh in my opinion.


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## Overtone (Mar 11, 2013)

lol noob


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 11, 2013)

personally i wouldnt file anything and just chock it up as a loss, a small one at that. you might seriously end up ruining whatever plans that kid has while making yourself look like a dick.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 11, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yes really. You're basically saying that just because you fucked up that you're going to mess with this kid's life. That makes you a dick.
> 
> You fucked up man. Admit it. You didn't properly inspect the instrument and are now falling back on weak "contract" arguments that really either don't apply or won't help you in the least given the circumstances.
> 
> Personally, _I'm_ offended that you'd take it to this level.



So its totally OK to sell guitars with flaws but list them as flawless? Sure I should have inspected it more but he shouldnt have repeatedly told me it was a flawless guitar. 

Also the 'kid' is just a year younger than me; hes not like 15 or something.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 11, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> How many MORE times can I like this?
> 
> I mean seriously dude. Over a couple hundred bucks? I wouldn't even do that and 200 bucks is a not insignificant for me.
> 
> EDIT: Also OP nobody is belittling or trying to marginalize your pain issues. That does indeed suck and I'm sorry, but I encourage you to be the bigger man and not mess with this kid's life over a flawed guitar. Pursue him for a refund? Sure. Small claims? Sure. But don't try to put him on the lam. You are being overly harsh in my opinion.



I did ask him for a refund or partial and even offered to go meet him at his conveniance. 

He refusused and its not my problem what happensto him when I file against him. 

The smart thing on his end would hve been to just do the right thing.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 11, 2013)

Overtone said:


> lol noob



Yeah no doubt noob mistake on my part. Hows that sherman?


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 11, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> So its totally OK to sell guitars with flaws but list them as flawless?



Nope, that's not right at all, but it's an entirely moot point since you had the opportunity to inspect the instrument but failed to do so. 

A failure on your end does not entitle you to a greater amount of protection from something like this.

I think what you don't seem to understand here is that he could have pulled out a $50 POS Chinese Strat copy and as long as you paid him after inspection and took the instrument with you he's totally in the clear. 

Once again dude, you fucked up. Stop badgering the guy because you were lazy.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 11, 2013)

I was in a rush, not lazy. 

Whatever we can agree to disagree. Ill let you guys know how the charges work out.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 11, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> The smart thing on his end would hve been to just do the right thing.



"The right thing" that's pretty funny coming from the guy who's willing to really mess up a dude's life over your own mistake.


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## Overtone (Mar 12, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah no doubt noob mistake on my part. Hows that sherman?



Touché!


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## MetalDaze (Mar 12, 2013)

No *peddles *to go with the *patchchords*?


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## Overtone (Mar 12, 2013)

Honestly I'm with you about people needing to honor a better code than that guy, but the way you are going about it seems like overkill. For all you know he would have given you a discount from whatever price he agreed upon if you had pointed it out to him before paying. "All sales final" kinda goes without saying and what he does after that point is really up to him. Dick move, yeah, but it doesn't make sense to expect ss.org style ethics from some CL guy and get disappointed when he doesn't care.


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## lettsbasses (Mar 12, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Im not really expecting anything of it but im going to file charges anyways and hopefully it will make it hard for him to leave the country like he intends at the end of the month. It would be hilarious to force him to miss his planned flights.


That is just harsh. Vindictive in fact.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

lettsbasses said:


> That is just harsh. Vindictive in fact.



It is, but it was pretty stupid on his part to sell me something that wasn't accurately described. FYI the electronics arent working properly at all either. Tone knob just adds noise and the neck pickups is super super low output and so noisy it is unusable. He straight up lied about the electronics when he knew there wasnt a way for me to try out those out. 

Dunno about you guys, but what if he goes to 'straya and pulls the same shit? I think he should learn his lesson and I don't mind paying a couple dollars to help him learn.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> "The right thing" that's pretty funny coming from the guy who's willing to really mess up a dude's life over your own mistake.



You're right, maybe i should buy some guitars with warped necks and sell them to kids on CL locally, but hey its ok because they had a chance to see them first IRL, amirite? 

Some of you seem way too cool with being walked all over.


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## knifefightintheor (Mar 14, 2013)

> Tone knob just adds noise and the neck pickups is super super low output and so noisy it is unusable. He straight up lied about the electronics when he knew there wasnt a way for me to try out those out.



I think that may be your saving-point


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

There are actually even more issues than I posted, just cant be bothered typing them all out and taking pictures. :


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> You're right, maybe i should buy some guitars with warped necks and sell them to kids on CL locally, but hey its ok because they had a chance to see them first IRL, amirite?
> 
> Some of you seem way too cool with being walked all over.



No one is saying what homeboy did was right, we're just pointing out that it's your fault you're sitting where you are. Like, 110% your fault. It couldn't be any more of your fault if you tried. I mean, I guess you could have worn a blindfold when picking it up, but from the looks of it, you might have been.  

And you trying to extort a resolution or ruin his shit in a major way is being just as big, if not bigger jackoff than he was to you. 

Once again man, own up to your mistakes. It'll make you look way less like the brat some folks in here are calling you.

Also, for the record, naivety is not a legally binding excuse for poor decision making.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

Well if im really in the wrong then he has nothing to worry about, does he?

But they let me file charges and my lawyer buddy said I have a pretty good chance anyways.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Well if im really in the wrong then he has nothing to worry about, does he?
> 
> But they let me file charges and my lawyer buddy said I have a pretty good chance anyways.


 
You should be smart enough to know that things don't really work that way. They may not even look into it, but if they do, do you really think its fair that this kid might get harassed by the cops because you didn't do your homework? In the US its Caveat Emptor ("let the buyer beware") and any law enforcement agency would laugh at you for this, frankly. And to top it off you're doing it knowing it *may* have a significant effect on his life. What if he misses the first day of a new job? Or an important family event? Is that worth your ego/"teaching him a lesson?"

I would understand if he sold you a fake high end guitar or something, but you're talking about a few dings and some fixable issues on a guitar you're not even going to play that much. 

I'm not trying to be an ass but it just sounds like you're being really unreasonable because you feel like you got taken for a fool. It happens. Fix the guitar, play it, sell it in 3 months and go on with your life.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 14, 2013)

Just because one CAN sue, doesn't mean one SHOULD sue.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> You should be smart enough to know that things don't really work that way. They may not even look into it, but if they do, do you really think its fair that this kid might get harassed by the cops because you didn't do your homework? In the US its Caveat Emptor ("let the buyer beware") and *any law enforcement agency would laugh at you for this, frankly.* And to top it off you're doing it knowing it may have a significant effect on his life. What if he misses the first day of a new job? Or an important family event? Is that worth your ego/"teaching him a lesson?"
> 
> I would understand if he sold you a fake high end guitar or something, but you're talking about a few dings and some fixable issues on a guitar you're not even going to play that much.
> 
> I'm not trying to be an ass but it just sounds like you're being really unreasonable because you feel like you got taken for a fool. It happens. Fix the guitar, play it, sell it in 3 months and go on with your life.



Clearly not, because they let me file, and on top of that someone thats fairly close to becoming a practicing lawyer told me its a good idea. Can you not read? 






TemjinStrife said:


> Just because one CAN sue, doesn't mean one SHOULD sue.



Suing here is a lot harder to do successfully than in the states. Its pretty crazy what people get sued for down south.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Clearly not, because they let me file, and on top of that someone thats fairly close to becoming a practicing lawyer told me its a good idea. Can you not read?


 
In the same sentence I said "IN THE U.S."  Can YOU not read? 

Also a professional-in-training (such as a law student), knows nothing about what it truly worth the time of a real attorney. They may know the letter of said law, but a *real* attorney would see this as a waste of time, trust me.

So stop being a prick.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

Aint 'muricuh boy, not relevant, Im not sure why you keep bringing up US related law either.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Aint 'muricuh boy, not relevant, Im not sure why you keep bringing up US related law either.


 
I'm trying to demonstrate that in most of the developed world, you'd be seen as taking this too far. 

You're obviously going to do what you're going to do so just continue.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> I'm trying to demonstrate that in *most of the developed world*, you'd be seen as taking this too far.



That has to be the most arrogant thing I have read on this forum in a while. US =/ most of the developed world.


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> That has to be the most arrogant thing I have read on this forum in a while. US =/ most of the developed world.



As arrogant as attempting to ruin someone's life over your own failure to inspect the merchandise?


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 14, 2013)

This breaks my heart Mehtab. I always thought you were a good kid, even when trolling or stiring some shit with guys on here. Though, this is starting to make me think I was wrong.  

Oh well, best of luck.


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> That has to be the most arrogant thing I have read on this forum in a while. US =/ most of the developed world.


 
In most developed countries (anywhere in the world) the local/national law enforcement has more important matters to attend to. Like actual crime. Not some douche on craigslist who misrepresented a 300-or-whatever dollar guitar. If he won't refund you (which for the record I was with you that he should, but if he wont.....) thats when you cut your losses and move on instead of being a vindictive asshole.

If I meant "THE UNITED STATES OF MURCA" I would have said "THE UNITED STATES OF MURCA." 

And don't call me arrogant. You came into my recent NGD thread and straight up made fun of the subject guitar because its a Squier, and not a Mayones or whatever super-mega-custom-high-end gear you have.

AND NOW I'M FIGHTING ON THE INTERNET


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

I wasnt making fun of you and I gave you picku advice in the same thread even though you insulted me. And i dont own any cs guitars.

I think you thought i was insulting you because i post from mu phone 80% of the time and it comes across the wrong way


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## goldsteinat0r (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I wasnt making fun of you and I gave you picku advice in the same thread even though you insulted me. And i dont own any cs guitars.


 
You've seriously "always wanted a Squier but never had the cash for one?"

You just got an Axe FX. $2000 at the very least.

My guitar: $200 shipped.

So you were either being really condescending or just snarky. I don't care, but call it what it is.

I'm not posting in this thread anymore because I like being not-banned.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> You've seriously "always wanted a Squier but never had the cash for one?"
> 
> You just got an Axe FX. $2000 at the very least.
> 
> ...



What i meant to say is that i never have the cash around when they do pop up because I genuinly dont when they do, and they are relativly rare in Canadia. If you bought one from the states it would be 200-300 + 150 shipping + PP fee + credit card fee unless you have your bank hooked up + taxes + duty + brokerage...etc.


but thats fine we can all agree to disagree. Might as well lock this.


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## GXPO (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealth, I've always wanted to ask you this because I don't get it. Serious question, not insulting you.

Why do you jump so frequently between being a functional and useful member of the community to trolling and writing condescending shit on people NGD's? I mean, one minute you're becoming a Mayones dealer, the next you're banned for some shit that wasn't needed. I always think you have a good rep around here and then people come down on you hard and you're not seen for a few weeks. I feel like the mods never would've let this shitstorm continue if it wasn't you the shit was storming at. 

Just shit or get off the pot man. In or out? 

Also, You're talking law here as if you don't basically incriminate yourself in almost every FS thread I've seen you make. You publicly offer to misrepresent the price of your goods for tax avoidance reasons. Funny really...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

A large chunk of my bans are when i ask for it for school.
Last time was for listing a guitar fs.



Like I said above, a lot of what I typ just comes across the wrong way because I do it superfast off a phone


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

Also the last guitar I shipped had everything declared fully, not sure what youre on about.


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## lettsbasses (Mar 14, 2013)

GXPO said:


> Just shit or get off the pot man. In or out?


Quality!


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## GXPO (Mar 14, 2013)

Fair enough, I not trying to incriminate you or anything like that, I'm just making a point which I could be wrong about. 

But you must see what people are getting at here? We can all see clear as day that the guy has been a douche and misrepresented some thing which he had no business selling to you with that description. But if you want to be taken seriously as a dealer and/or reviewer, acting vindictive in plain sight just seems a bad idea.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

If you want to see how I am as something selling gear you can just read my itrader. How 3 people that have never dealt with me means nothing.


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## Larrikin666 (Mar 14, 2013)

Meh, I'm on your side man....mostly. I don't think it matters how many much money you have, how many guitars you have, whatever....getting screw like this shouldn't happen. It's going to happen though. Paypal, eBay, and forums like this help give you some coverage in case things go south. Cash deals in person are rough. The best advice I can give you is to assume the person you're dealing with knows absolutely nothing about what he's selling, because there's a good chance you're right. That also covers you if they're sketchy and trying to screw you. I go over everything with a fine tooth comb when I'm doing a deal in person. I think the only exception to that was when I bought my first Axe-FX Ultra from Technomancer on here a few years ago, but I knew I had the forum to rely on if that didn't go well. 

No, that advice everyone's been shoving down your throat doesn't fix your current situation. I agree with Max for the most part as well. Being vindictive isn't going to help. I totally understand that you want justice or to be "made whole", but you ended up taking it to another place. Wanting him to miss his flight won't make you feel better, it won't make that guitar play better, and it won't get you your money back. You know that though. I understand the initial instinct to want to punish someone when they've wronged you. I remember a time in my life when I would have reacted similarly, but I'm older, more patient, educated, and forgiving. 

I'm certainly not to tell you to just eat the loss or forget it, but that's certainly an option.


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## Basti (Mar 14, 2013)

well somebody had to. 

Look, TS has clearly made up his mind and all valid arguments from both sides have already been put forward. I probably wouldn't have done it tbh but whatever, it's not up to me, I just want to know how it goes now (apart from the drama, there's some useful info to be had from all this).


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## TemjinStrife (Mar 14, 2013)

And that useful info is: assume the worst, do your due diligence, and if you're dealing in an unknown instrument on a mostly unregulated forum, be prepared to accept the consequences of the risk you're taking.

I'm not saying the kid did the right thing (he may have been actively malicious or just ignorant) but the punishment should have some modicum of proportionality to the injury.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

Ill let you know how it goes. Iirc he leaves around the 20th so I either get a call from him before then, in which case we can hopefully work something out, he leaves the country or gets stopped.


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## ElRay (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Ill let you know how it goes. Iirc he leaves around the 20th so I either get a call from him before then, in which case we can hopefully work something out, he leaves the country or gets stopped.


And there's where you can get yourself into some trouble. Your actions can look like/be spun into a case for extortion. He can portray the situation like you have buyer's remorse and you're trying to use his need to leave the country "on time" to pressure him to give you money.

Ray


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 14, 2013)

Except that i have an admission from him saying those are problems via text from the same day i got it


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## rekab (Mar 15, 2013)

Stealth, I'd probably just stop posting about this honestly. Let the thread die and do what you need to privately. Continuing this thread is not going to help your case or reputation in any way. You may not care about the reputation but give this some thought. You've made your choice. Whether it was wrong or right, there is no need to make it all public and have people criticize your every move.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 15, 2013)

knifefightintheor said:


> Very nice. I just wish fanned fret guitars didn't intimidate me so much.



Ahh they're not scary. As soon as you try one you think: "Why the fuck don't they just always build guitars like this?"


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## Captain Butterscotch (Mar 15, 2013)

rekab said:


> Stealth, I'd probably just stop posting about this honestly. Let the thread die and do what you need to privately. Continuing this thread is not going to help your case or reputation in any way. You may not care about the reputation but give this some thought. You've made your choice. Whether it was wrong or right, there is no need to make it all public and have people criticize your every move.



Stealth, what are you doing.

Stealth

STAHP


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## Erazoender (Mar 15, 2013)

I bought Mehtab's OAF and he was more than great to deal with. Firstly, I payed in installments barely after I met him, and when I had the first installment ready, Mehtab insisted on taking the guitar home first to try it to make sure I liked it, without payment. 

I don't know why you're labeling Mehtab as a dick for doing this Max, but honestly I support him in this case. Yes he made a mistake, but if the situation was reversed he would have refunded the guitar, made an effort to fix up shit, etc. In otherwords, he's honest, fair, and extremely decent do deal with. If some kid tries to screw you over like this, that's evident of deeper problems with the guy and he thinks he can get away with screwing people over for his own gains. I'm not suggesting Mehtab should act as the vessel of judgement to punish this kid or some shit, but based on principle I feel that Mehtab is more than in the right to press charges. The sooner this kid learns that you can't just fuck people over in life, the better it is for him as well. 

Mehtab's not a dick for doing this at all. I know it would suck for the kid to have his plans messed, but he'll learn that you just can't be a shithead in life and expect to get away with it all the time.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 15, 2013)

There you go bitches, first hand experience 


Anyways I got a pretty awesome phone call today as well


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## Sam MJ (Mar 15, 2013)

Learning about contract laws, the SS.org way .



It'll be interesting to see how this pans out anyhow .


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 15, 2013)

It already panned out. See last post.


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## noUser01 (Mar 15, 2013)

So... Does it djent?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 15, 2013)

Slightly too warm


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## engage757 (Mar 16, 2013)

goldsteinat0r said:


> In the same sentence I said "IN THE U.S."  Can YOU not read?
> 
> Also a professional-in-training (such as a law student), knows nothing about what it truly worth the time of a real attorney. They may know the letter of said law, but a *real* attorney would see this as a waste of time, trust me.
> 
> So stop being a prick.



No, actually. He wouldn't. My Mother was a lawyer, when I explained this situation she agreed that there is VERY much a case. When the guy offered to help pay for the repairs or issues a partial refund, then decided to refuse, it is implying guilt.

Say what you want, but there are a LOT of things one doesn't and CAN'T check out during one of these Craigslist-type deals. Neg-rep me all you want, I don't give a flying fuck.

I have done NUMEROUS deals on Craigslist, and only ONCE has someone brought a DC power convert, ME-50, headphones and a cable and checked the guitar out. Typically in less than one minute, they quickly review it, complete the deal and leave.


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## Chris (Mar 17, 2013)

engage757 said:


> With all due respect bro. I don't know where your legal info is coming from. The seller represented the item as flawless, upon closer scrutiny it was not. Not even close. He most definitely can file charges on him. It has been done for far less.



Oh, the irony.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gu...t-ibanez-j-custom-gold-ii-very-rare-jcrg.html


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## eaeolian (Mar 18, 2013)

Man, did this devolve into a shit storm. Engage gets a couple for bitching about rep, goldsteinat0r gets a week for attacking him, and Stealth...actually didn't do anything wrong from the forum perspective, though I would suggest to him that a thorough inspection is a better way to handle this in the future.


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