# Ormsby Goliath headless GTR - 6, 7, AND 8 string multiscale



## A-Branger (Apr 11, 2016)

Im creating this tread to talk about this guitar 







Goliath Headless GTR - Ormsby Guitars - Custom made electric guitars multiscales and basses - Guitar making courses - Multiscale and fanned fret guitars

this is for those who havent yet checked the Dealers section

I originally posted a link on the Vader FF tread but it got that tread derailed. Im sorry for that, so we can continue the talk in here

This guitar for now is on developing mode, less than a week away to open the doors for orders

These are made on Korea on the WMI factory, the same factory that mades lots of the import guitars of the main brands. Then they go to Australia where they get a QC and setup session


so far One color has been revealed 







and there is a really high chance this other color would be on the run too






a high quality printed top of a copper top guitar. Would be the same quality of print process LTD uses for their graphic guitars






a prototype is being built as we speak

no idea on specs as they havent announced, but coming from the other guitars in the previous runs these would be

Six string: 25.5" - 27.5" Multiscale
Seven string: 25.5" - 27.8" Multiscale
Eight String: 25.5" - 28.2" Multiscale

with ebony fretboard, stainless steel frets, rock mapple necks

price Estimated RRP $1799 AUD = 1366.07 USD as todays date post

other guitars in the previous runs come with a hardcase, not sure is these would too or would come with a gig bag or what. Would keep you posted



> RUN FOUR - T minus 6 days








I wante to reply these on the other tread but didnt wanted to keep derailing that talk there



wannabguitarist said:


> They're also expensive imports, not MIA. If it's an option I take MIA every chance I get



taking it from the a $1170 - 1350$USD for an import altough yes mayyyybe its a bit expensive? not for me, is not really that high s you consider they come with ebony, SS frets, multiscale and with a hardcase. Plus the final QC and settup made on Australia




Jonathan20022 said:


> That's not my point, my point is that factories that mass produce things in Korea and such aren't as consistent as USA and like in your example Skervesen. Mayones as well, I have 7 of them and I'm a very big supporter of Mayones for their excellent craftsman ship and *consistency*. I'm actually not comparing, just arguing the point when someone threw a WMI made guitar in this thread as another option instead of the Vader.




I get your point, and yes, these guys might have to do an extra QC on Australia, but the thing is they do it. The wont forward a guitar from the factory like other brands, once the guitars arrive to their shop on Australia they go and check the guitar, level the frets, change the plastic nut for a bone nut, check for paint marks ect. If a guitar comes with a paint marks, they would replace you that guitar with one of the spares they order (in the same color), and they or either sell that guitar as a b-stock, or re-spray it on a new color to test new finishes 



> Our QC sequence: (*indicates we move to a new member of the team so we are all working on the same guitars and can potentially see more issues easier, each guitar is viewed at least six times by up to four people)
> (Perry/Jett/Sophia/Dave)
> Check electronics
> Remove plates - check solder joints
> ...



so how would be the consistency from WMI?.. no idea, thats why they order spares, but be assured the consisted from Orsmby would be good. At elast thats the impression Im getting from following the firsts runs on their FB group.

They just are on the shipping process of their first run of guitars so hopefully we would start seeing some NGD and feedbacks here soon

run two is almost finish at the WMI factory, so not much longer behind


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## Lemons (Apr 11, 2016)

Don't stress about that derail, this thread is long overdue. 

As far as the GTR run I'm sure they'll be good guitars but seeing the first run unfold has pretty much turned me off the idea, for now at least. Although I'm always happy to see a new competitor that has something good to add to the guitar market. 

That all being said I'm definitely not a fan of the Goliath, but that's just me, everyone else seems to love it.


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## A-Branger (Apr 11, 2016)

*mod edit: you know when you make 4 posts to a thread promoting a brand and there's only one post by another person it REALLY makes you look like a shill... let's only bump our threads once per day please and don't crosspost to other people's threads.*

I like the shape way better than others headless options. Im curently GASing for a TX shape. 

I like what they are doing, its nice to see another option out there for good quality guitars on an affordable price. So Im happy to help promote their brand as I would like to see them grow more. Plus helping a fellow Aussie haha

I know some people are trown off for something?, no idea waht happened. Ive been following the runs and got nothing bad to say, so thats why Im happy to help, as the more people buy, the more they would build guitars.They had a bass multiscale run going on, but not many people are buying so for tat there might not be a future run for example. I didnt had the money, and didnt like the choices of colors they did, but I would like to get on a future.


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## wannabguitarist (Apr 11, 2016)

Lemons said:


> Don't stress about that derail, this thread is long overdue.
> 
> As far as the GTR run I'm sure they'll be good guitars but seeing the first run unfold has pretty much turned me off the idea, for now at least. Although I'm always happy to see a new competitor that has something good to add to the guitar market.
> 
> That all being said I'm definitely not a fan of the Goliath, but that's just me, everyone else seems to love it.



What happened with the GTR run?


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## Jonathan20022 (Apr 11, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> I get your point, and yes, these guys might have to do an extra QC on Australia, but the thing is they do it. The wont forward a guitar from the factory like other brands, once the guitars arrive to their shop on Australia they go and check the guitar, level the frets, change the plastic nut for a bone nut, check for paint marks ect. If a guitar comes with a paint marks, they would replace you that guitar with one of the spares they order (in the same color), and they or either sell that guitar as a b-stock, or re-spray it on a new color to test new finishes



Please go back and read what I said in the other thread, that's not the point of what I'm saying at all. And I won't derail this thread, if you want to continue talking about it you can feel free to message me about it. The problem is the disproportionate faith in imports vs MiA and other well known countries of origin.



wannabguitarist said:


> What happened with the GTR run?



I'm curious as well, all I heard of was a few of the prototypes from NAMM shipped with issues, and I saw plenty of the protos with annoying little mistakes on them when I was out there.


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## Lemons (Apr 11, 2016)

wannabguitarist said:


> What happened with the GTR run?



I'm talking about the constant delays, both the first and second run, and some customers being treated really poorly. I get that a lot of people missed something in writing and were asking obvious questions but unfortunately that's the nature of large scale production.


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## Lemons (Apr 11, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> Im happy to help promote their brand as I would like to see them grow more. Plus helping a fellow Aussie haha
> 
> ...I didnt had the money, and didnt like the choices of colors they did, but I would like to get on a future.



Wait so you're doing all this promotion of Ormsby guitars and you haven't touched one or are even a customer?


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## A-Branger (Apr 11, 2016)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Please go back and read what I said in the other thread, that's not the point of what I'm saying at all. And I won't derail this thread, if you want to continue talking about it you can feel free to message me about it. The problem is the disproportionate faith in imports vs MiA and other well known countries of origin.



yeah I read them all  I get your point, I have no problems with MIA and the consistency they have vs an import would have . Im just trying to show you guys how Ormsby deal with the QC of their guitars before they get shipped out to customers. Like I said I have no idea on hows is the consistency rate of WMI, I know they wont be as good as EBMM or Kiesel, but thats why Perry order extra spare guitars and do the final QC and settup in Australia, in order to have good guitars coming out in the wild. In other words, they wont be any lemons out there (at least thats my impression of it) We have to wait to the first run to finish shipping to see how they start.





Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm curious as well, all I heard of was a few of the prototypes from NAMM shipped with issues, and I saw plenty of the protos with annoying little mistakes on them when I was out there.



the first run is just being shipped as we talk. They just started shipping last week, so far the only people with the guitar in their hands is the locals who went to pick them up at the shop in Australia. Go to the dealers section, there are photos of the guitar finished there.

Second run last time I saw there were some photos from the factory, they are in the painting process, so they should be finished soon.

Not sure how many people from this forum got one, but hopefully we would see a NGD soon from the first run so we can have some real world feeedback about them. Im curious about them too. Im waiting for a shop close by to get their stock soon so I can go and test them out



Lemons said:


> Wait so you're doing all this promotion of Ormsby guitars and you haven't touched one or are even a customer?



not yet lol, money's being tight if not I would had. A local shop would get some guitars in the next few weeks, so I would try them on then. Im hopping for a spare from run two in a color that I want


Nothing different to anyone else posting a link to a new guitar. Im not talking about hands-on playability or experience, Im jsut trying to spread the word on new future guitars. I know lots of people dont know about them and I know there are a lot of GAS in this forum about FF and headless 

Like I said, the more people get into them, the more chance they would keep building them, so the more chance I would be able to jump into one. Strandbergs are too expensive for me, and I dont like the looks of the vaders. Im digging the looks of the goliath so far.

I only showing what I know. The idea of the tread is for all of us to talk bout it and other people share their take/experience with them. Im not selling a guitar. If the feedback is bad, them lets see why, if not them good lets talk. The kind of talk you cant do much on the dealers section


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## Bdtunn (Apr 11, 2016)

I really like these guitars, tempting to jump on a run but the scale lengths are just too long for my taste. I do follow the run and am super impressed with the set up detail they go into with each guitar.


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## Hollowway (Apr 11, 2016)

I'm definitely interested in these. I have one of the protos from NAMM, and I'm super impressed. It's really a nice instrument. And while I will definitely agree that some countries are known for low QC standards (I'm looking at you, China!), I also know that it's not really fair to prejudge a guitar based on country of origin alone. I've got a few Agile's that are just awesome. And I've got American made guitars that are pure crap. Which, of course, is because Kurt has set up a really good system for his Rondo factories, and the luthiers I got crap from are just crappy builders. So whether these are amazing or meh will depend on how Perry handles the QC.

On a related note, I may have told you guys before about my experience with the R729 Gary Kramer guitars. I got super excited when I heart the spec level, so I ordered one. I finally got it, and the specs were different (like, 12" RB radius instead of 16"), but I wasn't super mad about that. What I WAS super mad about is that instead of two side marker dots at the 24th fret there were two holes drilled out of line with the other markers, and smaller than the other markers. And left as holes. And the scalloping of the higher frets were done well on the bass side, but all chewed up on the FB binding, and undermining the frets on the treble side. So I called Gary's luthier (Leo), and he said he wouldn't take it back, and that the holes instead of side dots were something they did on purpose to make it more exotic (WTF? How about it was done as an afterthought when they didn't do it before), and that the scalloping was to a level to be expected for a MIK build, and that these were still an amazing deal. Overall, not the end of the world (it played well), but the whole attitude pissed me off. So, if Perry handles that stuff well this will be awesome. I love the inspection in Australia, and the attention to detail, and would gladly pay a couple hundred bucks for that. So for me, I would get an 8 string Goliath at $1300 or whatever. Shoot, I was ready to pull the trigger on a Singularity, but I want that 8th string.


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## russmuller (Apr 12, 2016)

Lemons said:


> I'm talking about the constant delays, both the first and second run, and some customers being treated really poorly. I get that a lot of people missed something in writing and were asking obvious questions but unfortunately that's the nature of large scale production.



Yeah, there have been lots of delays. However I don't think Perry is at fault for them, and he's been very transparent about the issues that have come up.

As far as customer treatment, there are a lot of examples where Pez has gone above and beyond to take care of the GTR customers. I agree that sometimes the tone gets sour when people are asking the same questions, or they've simply overlooked (or neglected to look for) obvious answers. I've seen people ignore the website, pinned posts, and FAQ's to ask a question, Perry then answers, and then they respond by asking the exact same question again. 

You're probably right that it's part of the nature of large scale production. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to try to communicate thoroughly and clearly with 4,000+ people in a FB group. Perry's business model has always involved a lot of personal interaction, so I think it's a difficult adjustment to scale up those interactions to such a wide audience.


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## kevdes93 (Apr 12, 2016)

Not a gigantic fan of the body shape but I feel like I might change my mind once I see some real world pictures of them. That red chameleon finish is gonna be sick


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## russmuller (Apr 12, 2016)

kevdes93 said:


> Nothe a gigantic fan of the body shape but I feel like I might change my mind once I see some real world pictures of them. That red chameleon finish is gonna be sick



Yeah, I'm 100% on-board for the chameleon finish. Like whoa!


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 12, 2016)

I cant imagine buying one of these for more than I would pay to get a Kiesel.


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## Lorcan Ward (Apr 12, 2016)

I quite like the shape, it works well with the multiscale and headless design. Thats a huge cutaway. The scale lengths are way out of my comfort zone though. Who makes the hardware?


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## Hollowway (Apr 12, 2016)

xwmucradiox said:


> I cant imagine buying one of these for more than I would pay to get a Kiesel.



Yeah, but these are going to be less than a Kiesel, right? Base price for a VM8 is $1399/$1499. I think these are base price $1329. The AM8 is an awesome deal if you get baseline specs, though. I wouldn't mind one of those (but I hardly need another superstrat!).


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## ikarus (Apr 12, 2016)

I wish they would not do this "lets reaveal a tiny bit of the image on a daily basis" bs....


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 12, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, but these are going to be less than a Kiesel, right? Base price for a VM8 is $1399/$1499. I think these are base price $1329. The AM8 is an awesome deal if you get baseline specs, though. I wouldn't mind one of those (but I hardly need another superstrat!).



Less than $100 price difference for a proven USA-made instrument compared to a half and half first-run WMI instrument isn't very convincing for the Ormsby. I admire the attempts to bring their instruments from a $4000 point down to a $1400 point but I think that's still a lot of cash for what you're getting compared to what Kiesel has to offer. 

That said I own a Dingwall NG2 and its a stellar instrument so when you have no other options for a good quality fanned instrument you pay the asking price.


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## A-Branger (Apr 12, 2016)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Who makes the hardware?



Hardware is by the same factory that Strandberg uses


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## Hollowway (Apr 12, 2016)

ikarus said:


> I wish they would not do this "lets reaveal a tiny bit of the image on a daily basis" bs....



Yeah, I don't know this for sure, but I think it's a playful jab at the Kiesel reveals, because the guitar they're slowly revealing has been posted in its entirety for a few weeks already. So it's not really building to any kind of actual reveal.


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## Hollowway (Apr 12, 2016)

xwmucradiox said:


> Less than $100 price difference for a proven USA-made instrument compared to a half and half first-run WMI instrument isn't very convincing for the Ormsby. I admire the attempts to bring their instruments from a $4000 point down to a $1400 point but I think that's still a lot of cash for what you're getting compared to what Kiesel has to offer.
> 
> That said I own a Dingwall NG2 and its a stellar instrument so when you have no other options for a good quality fanned instrument you pay the asking price.



Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it would be fairer to say "WMI instrument with further work in Oz," but it is, still, a good deal of money. It's much the same argument people were making about the Singularity in the strandberg thread. I think what it's going to come down to is how strict the QC is. It is very early in the process, so I wouldn't be surprised if people are a little gun shy right now, and Kiesel is much more of a known quantity, given their long history.


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## Dayn (Apr 13, 2016)

As an Australian I'm excited to see this and would like to see how they turn out. I'd considered Carvin in the past, but have theycut out the middle-man now for international orders? Because getting reamed for another $1,000.00AU+ for no reason turned me off them completely. Which only makes this guitar all the more attractive.


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## concertjunkie (Apr 13, 2016)

Currently own an Ormsby, best guitar ever owned. Played on a friends AM7 and although it is a nice guitar, I'm sold on getting a Goliath cuz Ormsby makes excellent guitars!


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## ikarus (Apr 13, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I don't know this for sure, but I think it's a playful jab at the Kiesel reveals, because the guitar they're slowly revealing has been posted in its entirety for a few weeks already. So it's not really building to any kind of actual reveal.



The mac ebony version, that they are reveiling piece by piece, was not posted anywhere though...


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## Anectine_Matt (Apr 13, 2016)

I dig it, I think it looks a little sleeker than a Strandberg, although I've never played one and the Endurneck may be a point for them, no idea personally. 

That being said, I'm on run two for the GTR's waiting for a Hype 8 string, and it's been pretty fun to be honest, it's been exciting to see this all take off. There were some delays due to Chinese New year and whatnot, but it's seemed like everyone has mostly been understanding, Perry and co have answered questions and kept us informed along the way and it's been really positive so far. I'm dying to get the damn thing in my hands, haha. I'd definitely jump on the Goliath run if I had the money.


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 13, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it would be fairer to say "WMI instrument with further work in Oz," but it is, still, a good deal of money. It's much the same argument people were making about the Singularity in the strandberg thread. I think what it's going to come down to is how strict the QC is. It is very early in the process, so I wouldn't be surprised if people are a little gun shy right now, and Kiesel is much more of a known quantity, given their long history.



QC is everything. I'd kinda like to play guitars from a bunch of companies as they come off the boat and then after QC to see the difference. With Rondo there is no QC from what I know. Schecter seems to have a lot of work going on stateside. Dingwall totally breaks down their instruments and reworks almost every element IIRC. The NG2 is the nicest import I have ever played but I think that's largely due to design elements that solve typical problems. The fretboard is totally rounded over on the edge and is narrower than the widest part of the neck so there isn't any sharp edge to start. That makes a huge difference in feel. A lot of WMI instruments are in the $500-$800 range and remain great values. With some of the new guitars that are twice that much and more I think you push the limits of value. 

I'm in the US where a Kiesel is affordable. I can totally see places where there is a middleman for Kiesel that adds $1000 to the price going for another option. Since Ormsby is relatively obscure in the US it seems logical that their market isn't people who can get a nice affordable Kiesel in 2 months.


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## exo (Apr 13, 2016)

I prefer the lines on these Ormsby 8's to almost every other headless design I've encountered. Really great looking guitars.

I've got several WMI instruments, and the builds are definitely quality. I don't know that I'd go Carvin/Keisel over these JUST based on price, provided that Ormsby offers aesthetics I find pleasing.....


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## spudmunkey (Apr 13, 2016)

Is it just me, or is the 2" fan on the 6 and nearly 3" fan on the 8-string a rather extreme fan?

I do appreciate that the horn is longer than the Vader, and the body seems less "compact" due to how far back the body extends behind the bridge...but then again that would also compromise portability slightly...


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## olejason (Apr 13, 2016)

I like the body shape a lot. Ebony top is even better. I'll be interested to see the quality of macassar ebony available in Korea.

I was in the first GTR run and definitely would not do that same process again. Having everything communicated through Facebook completely sucked. Ormsby fans tend to be a rather "special" group and having to wade through so much nonsense was a pain. It probably won't be as big an issue now since people aren't voting on specs and stuff. Even though I expected the delays they were a little more than I had anticipated. I eventually soured on the idea of another Korean guitar. When they offered a no questions asked refund I went ahead and took it.


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## A-Branger (Apr 13, 2016)

its been confirmed the 3 colors for this run starting on Sunday, the blue coper top, the red/gold chameleon and the ebony top.

heres a photo mock of the ebony, since the other two are on the previous page








> 1. Blue Copper Graphic Goliath (Swamp Ash)
> 2. Red/Gold Chameleon Colour Change Goliath (Mahogany)
> 3. Macassar Ebony over Mahogany Goliath
> 6 - 7 - 8 strings
> ...


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## ikarus (Apr 14, 2016)

olejason said:


> I I'll be interested to see the quality of macassar ebony available in Korea.



I asked a similar question and got a cocky answer as usual:
"I suggest you hold off and wait for possible spares then. If I havent proven that I go the extra mile every time...."


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## Lemons (Apr 14, 2016)

olejason said:


> Ebony top is even better. I'll be interested to see the quality of macassar ebony available in Korea.



The ebony quality should be fine, however it'll be a veneer not a top.


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## Lorcan Ward (Apr 14, 2016)

It will be a veneer like what Ibanez does with the recent ziricote, blackwood and wenge models. Proper tops would be too expensive, hard to source and have inconsistent figure, even big custom shops have trouble with just consistent maple tops.


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## russmuller (Apr 14, 2016)

ikarus said:


> I asked a similar question and got a cocky answer as usual:
> "I suggest you hold off and wait for possible spares then. If I havent proven that I go the extra mile every time...."



Not to derail, but you did explicitly say that you didn't want to invest money in a "top figure gamble." If you don't want to gamble on what a figure will look like, the only sure fire way to avoid that is to wait until the guitar is built, which means holding out for a spare.


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## patsanger (Apr 14, 2016)

ikarus said:


> I asked a similar question and got a cocky answer as usual:
> "I suggest you hold off and wait for possible spares then. If I havent proven that I go the extra mile every time...."



I think the point here was that Perry has a reputation for good tops and wood. You're not going to get the Strandberg Koa issue here... I'm betting the veneers will be really pretty good.


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## olejason (Apr 14, 2016)

I think it is a valid question regardless. I can't recall any Korean guitars built with an ebony top/veneer and ebony can be notoriously difficult to source. Should be interesting to see how they turn out but I won't be buying in.


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## Andromalia (Apr 14, 2016)

> 'm in the US where a Kiesel is affordable. I can totally see places where there is a middleman for Kiesel that adds $1000 to the price going for another option. Since Ormsby is relatively obscure in the US it seems logical that their market isn't people who can get a nice affordable Kiesel in 2 months.



Well, Japan and the US are the closest markets for Aussies. I most likely wouldnt order just based on location alone. If Thomann starts to sell those now, it's another story.


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 14, 2016)

patsanger said:


> I think the point here was that Perry has a reputation for good tops and wood. You're not going to get the Strandberg Koa issue here... I'm betting the veneers will be really pretty good.



Regardless of his reputation, as a business owner there are better ways to address the question than to just say "trust me because the guitars I make in Australia are pretty," especially when we're talking about a guitar made in a totally different country by different people. 

Would have been much more effective to say how he intends to ensure nice tops whether he's sending lumber over himself or he already knows what they have access to or whatever. The question could have been phrased better but the core issue - how are you going about getting guitars made with difficult-to-source top woods - is what the guy wanted to know.


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## russmuller (Apr 14, 2016)

olejason said:


> I think it is a valid question regardless. I can't recall any Korean guitars built with an ebony top/veneer and ebony can be notoriously difficult to source. Should be interesting to see how they turn out but I won't be buying in.



Yeah, I can totally understand the curiosity/concern. In fact, I felt the same way when the second run was announced with the quilted maple. The pictures so far look like the mockups were a pretty accurate representation, but with any new variety of wood there's always some uncertainty what the first batch will look like until they're underway. I was tempted to get an 8 string Hype but I held off, and I'm glad I did because I'm investing in an 8 string Goliath (chameleon finish).

I honestly don't think that the "Korean" part of it is a factor. Wood only grows where it grows and has to be shipped all over the world for luthiers, so the country of manufacture says little about the availability of good wood. I think it means even less when you consider that a world leader in guitar manufacturing like WMI probably has vast resources to supply whatever lumber they want.

Hopefully there will be some spares, or guitars available through dealers that aren't pre-sold so that more cautious buyers get a crack at these.


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 14, 2016)

russmuller said:


> Yeah, I can totally understand the curiosity/concern. In fact, I felt the same way when the second run was announced with the quilted maple. The pictures so far look like the mockups were a pretty accurate representation, but with any new variety of wood there's always some uncertainty what the first batch will look like until they're underway. I was tempted to get an 8 string Hype but I held off, and I'm glad I did because I'm investing in an 8 string Goliath (chameleon finish).
> 
> I honestly don't think that the "Korean" part of it is a factor. Wood only grows where it grows and has to be shipped all over the world for luthiers, so the country of manufacture says little about the availability of good wood. I think it means even less when you consider that a world leader in guitar manufacturing like WMI probably has vast resources to supply whatever lumber they want.
> 
> Hopefully there will be some spares, or guitars available through dealers that aren't pre-sold so that more cautious buyers get a crack at these.



My concern would be more about introducing a much more difficult wood to work with as a veneer to a shop that typically works with maple and other woods that tend to behave. I imagine working through checks and cracks in ebony while cutting veneers thin enough to keep costs down could be pretty tough.


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## StevenC (Apr 14, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> Hardware is by the same factory that Strandberg uses



Can you elaborate on this at all?


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## A-Branger (Apr 14, 2016)

StevenC said:


> Can you elaborate on this at all?



nop, I asked that question on the FB group and that was the reply from Perry,


> Hardware is by the same factory that Strandberg uses. I cannot tell you their name, as Strandberg wont want that....



so the only thing I can elaborate is that whatever comes on a Strandberg as a bridge, the Goliath would have the same ?

not sure how can I elaborate more than that


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## StevenC (Apr 14, 2016)

Cheers. Most recent I can find is Strandberg hardware being made in Sweden, but I'm not sure that makes much sense with what Perry is saying.


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## A-Branger (Apr 14, 2016)

no idea. But plenty of people already have a Strandberg and they seem pretty happy with them, so I see no problem with the Goliath having the same hardware. I see it as a bonus. Plus way better looking than the Vaders hardware too


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## StevenC (Apr 14, 2016)

A-Branger said:


> no idea. But plenty of people already have a Strandberg and they seem pretty happy with them, so I see no problem with the Goliath having the same hardware. I see it as a bonus. Plus way better looking than the Vaders hardware too



Hardware made in the same factory. Not the same hardware.


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## Hollowway (Apr 15, 2016)

If I buy one of these, I kinda think I'll get the painted one, because I feel like the veneer of the photo top would be a hindrance to resale value. You guys find that to be true? I mean, realistically it makes no difference on anything other than the knowledge of its existence, but less expensive guitars have veneers and photos tops, so I'm wondering if that would kill resale. Generally speaking, I have no intention of selling it, so any immediate hype (pun!) would be long gone, and it would be valued on the merits on the guitar as is, and I'm wondering if that's a deal breaker for a lot of people.


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## A-Branger (Apr 15, 2016)

StevenC said:


> Hardware made in the same factory. Not the same hardware.



oohh I get you now, I see the point that you were asking.

but we wont be able to tell till the end. It might be the same same, it might be similar. Either way it should be a good hardware, as bieng the same brand as Standberg uses. Also for all his other guitars he is using a custom built Hipshot one just for him, so Im expecting the quality of the Golitah hardwre to be on the same ballpark


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## vansinn (Apr 15, 2016)

One of the rare times that I like the design of a headless with tuners sticking out on the rear on a chopped-off body end.

Not at all easy making such a mechanism work with good looks.
Methinks Perry did just that! That white one..


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## pfizer (Apr 15, 2016)

Interesting design, the Vader-Strandberg hybrid comparison is spot-on. This might become my first headless guitar, since I'm still a little on the fence about getting a Boden OS6 (because of the Endurneck) and the Goliath's price point is right within my budget. The color selection is more up my alley than the Strandberg Boden OS colors as well.

I'm just a bit concerned since based on the anecdotes, the process of obtaining one seems a fair bit more trouble than its worth; I almost pulled the trigger on the HypeGTR run a while back so I'm eagerly awaiting reviews from the ones who did. Speaking of, anybody here get on the TX GTR run? If I was to get a telecaster, an Ormsby TX is on that short list.


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## Lemons (Apr 16, 2016)

pfizer said:


> Interesting design, the Vader-Strandberg hybrid comparison is spot-on. This might become my first headless guitar, since I'm still a little on the fence about getting a Boden OS6 (because of the Endurneck) and the Goliath's price point is right within my budget. The color selection is more up my alley than the Strandberg Boden OS colors as well.
> 
> I'm just a bit concerned since based on the anecdotes, the process of obtaining one seems a fair bit more trouble than its worth; I almost pulled the trigger on the HypeGTR run a while back so I'm eagerly awaiting reviews from the ones who did. Speaking of, anybody here get on the TX GTR run? If I was to get a telecaster, an Ormsby TX is on that short list.



The Endurneck is actually quite comfortable, Ormsby definitely nailed it on the colour selection aspect though. I do have a mate who ordered a TX GTR so I'll report back on that whenever it arrives, but who knows when that is gonna be.


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## pfizer (Apr 16, 2016)

Lemons said:


> The Endurneck is actually quite comfortable, Ormsby definitely nailed it on the colour selection aspect though. I do have a mate who ordered a TX GTR so I'll report back on that whenever it arrives, *but who knows when that is gonna be*.



Therein lies the rub  I live in the Philippines, so custom overseas orders have to go through A LOT more red-tape and I just don't know if it's worth it.


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## A-Branger (Apr 16, 2016)

ordering process in now open

EDIT: (not sure if Im allowed to put the link here)...... so, go and check their website or go to the dealers tread for more info

they have added chambering to the guitar construction now too

there is also a HypeGTR available in 8


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## Go To Bed Jessica (Apr 17, 2016)

I'm down for a seven string hype on a future run, I think. The reports coming back about the run 1 stuff at the moment all seem very positive.

I'm kinda tempted to jump on this run, but satin clear finished swamp ash really isn't doing it for me. I kinda really want that metallic orange colour they had for the run 1 SX guitars.

Interested to see how the Goliath run comes up. The headless thing isn't my cup of tea at all, although I can appreciate the design that goes into them.


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## Valco (Apr 17, 2016)

Yeah I'm in the same mind set as you. The swamp ash hype is nice, but I'd rather have the Azure Blue!

I'm going to wait and hope they do another run.


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## SDMFVan (Apr 19, 2016)

These are definitely interesting, but I'm always a bit skeptical when a small luthier branches out into offshore manufacturing. In my experience, regardless of what company you use to manufacturer your imports, the quality is dictated by the amount of leverage you're able to exert on them to get it right (ie. the amount of $$ you're spending and they stand to lose) as well as your ability to scrap subpar guitars when they do arrive. 

A good example are the photos from the first run of Ormsby imports at the factory. They're on racks alongside LTD guitars and Dean guitars. LTD and Dean have polar opposite reputations as far as import quality, but are made right alongside each other. How can there be such a huge gulf in quality? I would guess it's a combination of LTD being more critical of the instruments they receive from WMI, as well as representing a much larger client to WMI.

Another good example is PRS. Their imports have an excellent reputation, and are made in the same factory alongside the others. I've been in the room in the factory in Maryland where they store all the rejected imports. No exaggeration, there are more guitars in there than Ormsby sells in a year. PRS is a big enough company that they have the leverage to make WMI get it right, and don't have to put out guitars that might not be up to their standards.

I don't mean this as a slight to Ormsby, I'm sure they're doing all their due diligence. I'm just saying that it's difficult waters to navigate, especially when you're selling guitars before the first piece of wood has been cut. If you do a presale for a run of 40 guitars and order say 10 as extras, what happens when 11 show up with flaws?


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## Iamatlas (Apr 25, 2016)

SDMFVan said:


> In my experience, regardless of what company you use to manufacturer your imports, the quality is dictated by the amount of leverage you're able to exert on them to get it right (ie. the amount of $$ you're spending and they stand to lose) as well as your ability to scrap subpar guitars when they do arrive.



Apparently there are differing levels of in-house QC etc that a customer can request/pay for within the WMI organisation. As far as we are aware (the FB group etc), Perry has paid for and stressed the importance of the highest level of quality and finish from the factory, and also flies to Korea upon fretting to instect the guitars. And after all this, still QC's the guitars by hand in Aus, and refinishes etc. any which are not up to par.

There has been no reason to suspect that there will be any quality issues thus far (aside from the occasional dry/shonky pot that WMI are so fond of).
I should note that my Run 1 HypeGTR arrives this week, and I'm in for a Goliath as well (I won the insta comp a few months ago) - So I may be a little impartial as far as excitement levels etc go.

The current batch on NGD's though give us hope and promise that the work done to ensure the quality of the guitars produced up to this point has been successful, and that there is an ongoing commitment to it's upkeep.


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## Fiction (Apr 26, 2016)

I've ordered a 6-string, the blue copper top. Excited to see how it plays! Anyone else get it on the run?


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## Merge (Apr 26, 2016)

I ordered a blue copper 7 string a few days ago, sucks I won't get it until November


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## SDMFVan (Apr 26, 2016)

Iamatlas said:


> Apparently there are differing levels of in-house QC etc that a customer can request/pay for within the WMI organisation.



I'd be interested to learn more about this. The idea that by paying more they'll send you fewer duds seems...suspect.


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## Jonathan20022 (Apr 26, 2016)

Also if that was the case they wouldn't need to do their own QC in house, I call bull.... on that.


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 26, 2016)

Multiple levels of in-house QC wouldn't mean WMI decides to send fewer instruments with issues. That's misunderstanding how manufacturing QC works. 

What it would mean is increased control over materials and processes. A deviation from their standard process could mean an upcharge. This is the same as any other custom order process. You want this special thing instead of that normal thing, sure but it will cost extra. This could be specific cuts of lumber or lumber standards. It could be specific waiting periods for materials to settle after a carving process. It could be a change to the way they perform fretting processes or finish prep. Anything like that.


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## Iamatlas (Apr 26, 2016)

xwmucradiox said:


> Multiple levels of in-house QC wouldn't mean WMI decides to send fewer instruments with issues. That's misunderstanding how manufacturing QC works.
> 
> What it would mean is increased control over materials and processes. A deviation from their standard process could mean an upcharge. This is the same as any other custom order process. You want this special thing instead of that normal thing, sure but it will cost extra. This could be specific cuts of lumber or lumber standards. It could be specific waiting periods for materials to settle after a carving process. It could be a change to the way they perform fretting processes or finish prep. Anything like that.



Exactly. There's more to QC than just pass/fail or black/white.
It's the level of grey which is allowed that will determine a standard to be set for the run.

Don't quote me on ANY of this though guys. It's all stuff that i THINK I remember hearing about in the FB group when the runs were first produced at WMI.


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## SDMFVan (Apr 27, 2016)

xwmucradiox said:


> What it would mean is increased control over materials and processes. A deviation from their standard process could mean an upcharge. This is the same as any other custom order process. You want this special thing instead of that normal thing, sure but it will cost extra. This could be specific cuts of lumber or lumber standards. It could be specific waiting periods for materials to settle after a carving process. It could be a change to the way they perform fretting processes or finish prep. Anything like that.



That's not QC, that's work process. QC at it's most basic level is ensuring that work process was executed as contracted and meets the agreed to level of quality. I do QA/QC for building construction projects for a living, but the same rules would apply in guitar building. The stuff you're talking about, hardware and wood selections etc. would be QC'ed by saying "he ordered hipshot hardware, does the guitar have hipshot hardware?". I'm sure that you can pay for different levels of that at WMI, and Ormsby certainly shot the moon on that end based on their specs. 

What I'm talking about is the person who says "Is this hipshot hardware installed correctly?", which isn't something that should have a price tag attached to it. If it does, that seems like poor business practices on WMI's part. In my (admittedly limited) knowledge of guitar manufacturing at WMI, what really drives the level of QC from them is the number of guitars they don't get paid for. If they know you're in a position to scrap things for blemishes they're more likely to go over them with a fine toothed comb before they leave the factory, because it effects their bottom line. The way to be in a position to scrap things is to not have them sold before they're even built, which is really my whole point. 

The proof is in the pudding. I'm not going to post the pics and put another member on blast, but if you look up some of the NGDs for the prototypes that got sold at NAMM you can pick apart the QC from the pictures. The fretboard on one looks like it was rolled by a beaver, and control cavities on several look like they were routed with screwdrivers. People will say "but they're protos!" and credit to Ormsby that people said most of those issues were corrected in production, but the bottom line is that WMI let them leave their factory looking like that. Ormsby selling them like that is another topic for another thread...


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## xwmucradiox (Apr 27, 2016)

SDMFVan said:


> That's not QC, that's work process. QC at it's most basic level is ensuring that work process was executed as contracted and meets the agreed to level of quality. I do QA/QC for building construction projects for a living, but the same rules would apply in guitar building. The stuff you're talking about, hardware and wood selections etc. would be QC'ed by saying "he ordered hipshot hardware, does the guitar have hipshot hardware?". I'm sure that you can pay for different levels of that at WMI, and Ormsby certainly shot the moon on that end based on their specs.
> 
> What I'm talking about is the person who says "Is this hipshot hardware installed correctly?", which isn't something that should have a price tag attached to it. If it does, that seems like poor business practices on WMI's part. In my (admittedly limited) knowledge of guitar manufacturing at WMI, what really drives the level of QC from them is the number of guitars they don't get paid for. If they know you're in a position to scrap things for blemishes they're more likely to go over them with a fine toothed comb before they leave the factory, because it effects their bottom line. The way to be in a position to scrap things is to not have them sold before they're even built, which is really my whole point.
> 
> The proof is in the pudding. I'm not going to post the pics and put another member on blast, but if you look up some of the NGDs for the prototypes that got sold at NAMM you can pick apart the QC from the pictures. The fretboard on one looks like it was rolled by a beaver, and control cavities on several look like they were routed with screwdrivers. People will say "but they're protos!" and credit to Ormsby that people said most of those issues were corrected in production, but the bottom line is that WMI let them leave their factory looking like that. Ormsby selling them like that is another topic for another thread...



The QC elements I was talking about would have been the checks on each of the items I listed. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


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## ras1988 (Apr 29, 2016)

Got in on this run for a Macassar topped 6 string. I'll have it custom setup in 5ths. Seems like it's the best platform for trying this out as the fan is perfect to balance the tension for tuning from g-f# without using insane string guages.


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## Exchanger (May 30, 2018)

I don't know is this has been asked before, but a quick search didn't show any result :
-Has anyone bought directly from Ormsby and had it shipped to the EU, is so how much were the import taxes ? According to this page it's only 3,7% which is much lower than I thought.
http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=92079010&country=AU
I assume I should also account for VAT about 20%. Are there any other unexpected costs ? If not it would be around 1.700€

I saw a Goliath 8 in red/gold chameleon on the Reverb page of Orsmby, and I'm really tempted to just pull the trigger right away, but I want to check before hand for any pitfalls.
Alternatively, you can apparently order them through thomann but it's already 1.900€. You still have to do a request and it's not clear if you can only get the black and white finish or anything you want.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/ormsby_goliath_gtr_8_fan_fret_ng.htm

Also I just recently bought other gear, so I would prefer to wait before purchasing anything else. I'm not familiar with the whole runs concept or if it even applies here. My question being, what are the odds that this model with this finish will be out for sale again, or for how long will it sitll be produced ?


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## KnightBrolaire (May 30, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> I don't know is this has been asked before, but a quick search didn't show any result :
> -Has anyone bought directly from Ormsby and had it shipped to the EU, is so how much were the import taxes ? According to this page it's only 3,7% which is much lower than I thought.
> http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=92079010&country=AU
> I assume I should also account for VAT about 20%. Are there any other unexpected costs ? If not it would be around 1.700€
> ...


goliaths aren't coming out in that same color for quite some time. I think the next goliath run isn't for a year at least. if you want the chameleon 8 string, try and get it now. There's a possibility one might pop up used later on but I wouldn't try and wait around if you see one you like now.


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## angl2k (May 30, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> I don't know is this has been asked before, but a quick search didn't show any result :
> -Has anyone bought directly from Ormsby and had it shipped to the EU, is so how much were the import taxes ? According to this page it's only 3,7% which is much lower than I thought.
> http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=92079010&country=AU
> I assume I should also account for VAT about 20%. Are there any other unexpected costs ? If not it would be around 1.700€
> ...



Having bought my last 2 guitars internationally shipped to the Netherlands total price was around 125% of the purchase value+shipping. Purchased it for 800+150E shipping and total cost with tax was around 1200E. Note that your guitar will NOT ship to your shipping address but to the nearest PostNL office location...


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## Exchanger (May 30, 2018)

angl2k said:


> Having bought my last 2 guitars internationally shipped to the Netherlands total price was around 125% of the purchase value+shipping. Purchased it for 800+150E shipping and total cost with tax was around 1200E. Note that your guitar will NOT ship to your shipping address but to the nearest PostNL office location...


Thanks for your advice ! Yeah +25% makes sense with VAT + import tax then. There is a PostNL office nearby so that's not a problem 



KnightBrolaire said:


> I wouldn't try and wait around if you see one you like now.


I guess it's time to shell out again then :v


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## A-Branger (May 31, 2018)

also you can try go to the Ormsby website and search for the dealers in europe and send them an email to see if they have one on stock or if they can get one. I dont think there should be a difference in price buying directly, its more than the european dealers already include the imprt tax on their prices, but at the end it all depends on your own country I guess.

And yeah the next run of Goliaths wont happen for some time, and it would be different finishes


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## Exchanger (May 31, 2018)

I did first check the delaers section from the Ormsby website. I looked at thomann as I mentionned above, but it seems they just place requests and/or they didn't have the red gold finish. And anyway it would be more expensive.
I also checked bax-shop (Dutch equivalent of thomann) they do have a few ormsby's but only 7-strings Goliaths (and I'm not looking for a new 7 right now). So I did take the one from Reverb in the end.


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## lewis (May 31, 2018)

Anyone got any idea what factory ormbsy had to use for their hipshot hardware when hipshot themselves let them down?.
Im in the same boat now where they have been promising me hardware for a month straight and still keep letting me down.

I just want to find this factory myself now and get the stuff direct from them.
Hipshot are so unreliable now. Once you get the stuff is amazing but its everything else with them thats a ballache


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## I play music (May 31, 2018)

lewis said:


> Anyone got any idea what factory ormbsy had to use for their hipshot hardware when hipshot themselves let them down?.
> Im in the same boat now where they have been promising me hardware for a month straight and still keep letting me down.
> 
> I just want to find this factory myself now and get the stuff direct from them.
> Hipshot are so unreliable now. Once you get the stuff is amazing but its everything else with them thats a ballache


I might be wrong, but I think the current run does have hipshot hardware, the new manufacturer is for the next run and the new hardware still in prototype stage.


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## I play music (May 31, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> I did first check the delaers section from the Ormsby website. I looked at thomann as I mentionned above, but it seems they just place requests and/or they didn't have the red gold finish. And anyway it would be more expensive.
> I also checked bax-shop (Dutch equivalent of thomann) they do have a few ormsby's but only 7-strings Goliaths (and I'm not looking for a new 7 right now). So I did take the one from Reverb in the end.


I'm also interested in how much it costs in the end to know if it's better to by directly from Ormsby or I can just as well buy from the next store for same price.


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## Exchanger (May 31, 2018)

So far, it's a way better deal to buy directly. I already got a bill from DHL for the import tax + VAT and it was like 9% of (price + shipping), so 400€ less than the thomann price. Unless there are still charges to pay upon delivery that I'm not aware of.
Response was also really quick from their side.
Note that it's not a custom order but a model sold as such on reverb (a spare from a previous run ? Again I'm not too familiar with the business model of small shops)


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## A-Branger (May 31, 2018)

I play music said:


> I'm also interested in how much it costs in the end to know if it's better to by directly from Ormsby or I can just as well buy from the next store for same price.



it all depends on what country you are. If you have a dealer in your country then buying directly from them would be the same as buying directly from Ormsby, their price might seem higher but thats because theya re already including all the import taxes you would ahve to pay if you buy from Ormsby directly. If you live in another country then it can get more expensive form a dealer as you might have to pay their markup for import, plus whatever your country adds in taxes too.

no idea how Europe works in regards to import taxes between countries and what not, so try to contact a dealer first if you want. If not buying diretly from Ormsby works perfect



lewis said:


> Anyone got any idea what factory ormbsy had to use for their hipshot hardware when hipshot themselves let them down?.
> Im in the same boat now where they have been promising me hardware for a month straight and still keep letting me down.



no idea, if Im not worng they find out trough WMI who was the supplier/contact. And I dont think they would be revealing the name either. Plus is one of those things just like WMI that doesnt technically have a name/place/site. Its just a "factory" kinda thing


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## lewis (Jun 1, 2018)

A-Branger said:


> it all depends on what country you are. If you have a dealer in your country then buying directly from them would be the same as buying directly from Ormsby, their price might seem higher but thats because theya re already including all the import taxes you would ahve to pay if you buy from Ormsby directly. If you live in another country then it can get more expensive form a dealer as you might have to pay their markup for import, plus whatever your country adds in taxes too.
> 
> no idea how Europe works in regards to import taxes between countries and what not, so try to contact a dealer first if you want. If not buying diretly from Ormsby works perfect
> 
> ...



Ah thanks man. What a shame. So i should expect to not be told really.

The situation im in, is the UK dealer for Hipshot, BTN Music, i have ordered through and spoken to soo much the last few months, ive gotten quite pally with him.
Through him ive made a Hipshot order and Hipshot are literally messing him about.
one day its "its been chrome plated and ready to ship". Then 2 days later its "its not going to be ready for 2 more weeks".

Been following this pattern for a little over a month now.


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## I play music (Jun 1, 2018)

A-Branger said:


> it all depends on what country you are. If you have a dealer in your country then buying directly from them would be the same as buying directly from Ormsby, their price might seem higher but thats because theya re already including all the import taxes you would ahve to pay if you buy from Ormsby directly. If you live in another country then it can get more expensive form a dealer as you might have to pay their markup for import, plus whatever your country adds in taxes too.


As Exchanger said, the Thomann price is a couple hundred € above where it should be after considering tax and shipping even though I'm in the same country (Germany). Maybe they only get very few guitars from Ormsby but have a high demand, so they charge more than they'd have to. Might have to search other dealers.


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## Slaeyer (Jun 1, 2018)

I play music said:


> As Exchanger said, the Thomann price is a couple hundred € above where it should be after considering tax and shipping even though I'm in the same country (Germany). Maybe they only get very few guitars from Ormsby but have a high demand, so they charge more than they'd have to. Might have to search other dealers.



Really seems to be true. Still I'd go with Thomann instead of ordering directly. First of all you can return it easily if you don't like it and to be honest when I ordered my HypeGTR 7 I was really annoyed when I got it. I really tried to like her, but we had a little of a rough start. 
The quality was below what I expected for an instrument costing 1.7k € (inconsistent binding, dust below the finish, a crooked nut, sloopy routings). What bugged me most was the feedbacking of the bridge pickup. From the point I got it I was not able to use it, because the feedback of that pickup was really bad and I had to have it wax potted. 
Ormsby promised to pay for that, but he didn't... After the wax potting the guitar was fine though. The rest of the issues were cosmetic, but still disappointing for a 1.7k € guitar.
I also wrote a mail to Ormsby about the issues. His answer was short and simple, he does not see any issue on this instrument.
He also went silent after I posted a review about the guitar... 
In the end I really liked the guitar but with the QA issues, the bad pickup and the not so nice communication with Ormsby I sold her within several months... 

If instead I could have bought the guitar at Thomann, I would not have had any problems;


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## I play music (Jun 1, 2018)

Slaeyer said:


> Really seems to be true. Still I'd go with Thomann instead of ordering directly. First of all you can return it easily if you don't like it and to be honest when I ordered my HypeGTR 7 I was really annoyed when I got it. I really tried to like her, but we had a little of a rough start.
> The quality was below what I expected for an instrument costing 1.7k € (inconsistent binding, dust below the finish, a crooked nut, sloopy routings). What bugged me most was the feedbacking of the bridge pickup. From the point I got it I was not able to use it, because the feedback of that pickup was really bad and I had to have it wax potted.
> Ormsby promised to pay for that, but he didn't... After the wax potting the guitar was fine though. The rest of the issues were cosmetic, but still disappointing for a 1.7k € guitar.
> I also wrote a mail to Ormsby about the issues. His answer was short and simple, he does not see any issue on this instrument.
> ...


Thanks for the insight, good point! 
Why did he not pay for the wax potting if promised previously? That's not nice...


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## Slaeyer (Jun 2, 2018)

I play music said:


> Thanks for the insight, good point!
> Why did he not pay for the wax potting if promised previously? That's not nice...



After I posted the review and pointed out the issues in public he simply didn't reply anymore. Maybe that had something to do with his T&Cs at that time stating that going public with issues voids the warranty. Fortunately that's not part of his T&Cs anymore... So IMHO Ormsby isn't trust worthy enough to order from him directly.
So if I have Ormsby on one side and Thomann on the other I'd always go with Thomann. I literally never made a bad experience with them.


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## I play music (Jun 2, 2018)

Slaeyer said:


> Maybe that had something to do with his T&Cs at that time stating that going public with issues voids the warranty. Fortunately that's not part of his T&Cs anymore...


Without being a law expert, this sounds suspiciously like an illegal practice to me. 
Maybe that's why it's not part of his T&Cs any more. 
Really makes me think twice about buying an Ormsby instrument. Too bad since I was interest in the Goliath AND the bass...


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## kevdes93 (Jun 3, 2018)

Yeah honestly reading all of this completely nixed any interest i had in anything ormsby


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## Slaeyer (Jun 4, 2018)

I play music said:


> Without being a law expert, this sounds suspiciously like an illegal practice to me.
> Maybe that's why it's not part of his T&Cs any more.
> Really makes me think twice about buying an Ormsby instrument. Too bad since I was interest in the Goliath AND the bass...



I guess it is. That's probably why they removed it from their T&Cs.

Don't get me wrong. The guitar was okay, but the quality did not justify the price tag


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## Vyn (Jun 5, 2018)

I'm yet to have a bad experience with Ormsby - I've played a couple of custom shops and a couple of GTRs now, all solid instruments (especially the custom shop stuff, that is on another level entirely). My own ordering process has been quite smooth, just a case of waiting for Run 6 to start manufacturing and shipping in my case.

This comment probably belongs in a thread of it's own, but I think the rise of the internet (and forums like this to a degree) have brought along a combination of instant gratification being expected all the time; and a hyper-critical/over examination of everything (especially when it comes to guitar finishes. Ormsby are pretty clear about their TC's from the get go, and the amount of customer service that they have provided to even the worst of customers has been phenomenal. I feel bad that @Slaeyer had a bad experience with the company but from my perspective I haven't really got anything negative to say about them.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 5, 2018)

I had some minor aesthetic quibbles with my goliath but overall I'm very satisfied with it. I think it more than holds up against my vaders/bodens and is definitely better quality than either of the OS8s I owned. Perry and his team actually give a shit about setting up the guitars/doing qc on them, unlike ed yoon's team at strandberg (at least as far as my OS8s went).


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## Exchanger (Jun 5, 2018)

Well I did recieve the Goliath GTR 8 already. The quality is good as far as I'm concerned. A teeny tiny scratch on the side of the fretboard (probably a tool that ripped when putting a side dot or filing a fret) is all I could see, and it's really not a problem for me. As Vyn said, we should be careful not to be overly nitpicky. Otherwise it looks fantastic and the pickups sound good to me. Maybe a tad unbalanced, but all the frequencies you'd want are there. I'll do a bit of recording to compare it with other guitars/PU's.
I would be a bit more critical on the setup side. It had a terrible fret buzz on the 1st and 2nd fret on the D-string. I gave the truss rod a twist and it's almost gone, but I hope it's not because the nut is filed too low for that particular string. The action looks quite high to me since the screws of the saddles are pretty deep but maybe that's inherent to the hipshot ? I never had one before. All in all, it looks to me like the setup guy looked only into the action and not the neck bow. Then again, the truss rod access is awkward so maybe he was just a bit lazy.
In any case, it's nothing that I can't solve, but it always takes me several rounds of trial and error, and I'm never 100% sure I did a good job.
I actually had the exact same with a Schecter that cost the same amount (also with a gorgeous finish) so I guess for this price, it's usual practice to put effort in production and keep the setup summary ?


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## I play music (Jun 5, 2018)

Vyn said:


> This comment probably belongs in a thread of it's own, but I think the rise of the internet (and forums like this to a degree) have brought along a combination of instant gratification being expected all the time; and a hyper-critical/over examination of everything (especially when it comes to guitar finishes. Ormsby are pretty clear about their TC's from the get go, and the amount of customer service that they have provided to even the worst of customers has been phenomenal. I feel bad that @Slaeyer had a bad experience with the company but from my perspective I haven't really got anything negative to say about them.


You have to distinguish between things given by law and customer service / quality expectations beyond that. I think it is reasonably to expect the things given by law. 
I don't know about Australia but if a store here sells you a guitar (that is not sold as "decorative article" or something alike) with a not properly potted pickup then this is a flaw that the store can either fix or give you your money back - by law. No T&Cs can be above the law and take you this customer right. 
I see taking your rights away by expressing existing issues publicly also as something immoral. 

Also keep in mind that a badly potted pickup is a functional flaw and in no way comparable to for example a not so cleanly done finish that would just be aesthetics but still allows you to use the guitar for its intended purpose.


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## I play music (Jun 5, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> Well I did recieve the Goliath GTR 8 already. The quality is good as far as I'm concerned. A teeny tiny scratch on the side of the fretboard (probably a tool that ripped when putting a side dot or filing a fret) is all I could see, and it's really not a problem for me. As Vyn said, we should be careful not to be overly nitpicky. Otherwise it looks fantastic and the pickups sound good to me. Maybe a tad unbalanced, but all the frequencies you'd want are there. I'll do a bit of recording to compare it with other guitars/PU's.
> I would be a bit more critical on the setup side. It had a terrible fret buzz on the 1st and 2nd fret on the D-string. I gave the truss rod a twist and it's almost gone, but I hope it's not because the nut is filed too low for that particular string. The action looks quite high to me since the screws of the saddles are pretty deep but maybe that's inherent to the hipshot ? I never had one before. All in all, it looks to me like the setup guy looked only into the action and not the neck bow. Then again, the truss rod access is awkward so maybe he was just a bit lazy.
> In any case, it's nothing that I can't solve, but it always takes me several rounds of trial and error, and I'm never 100% sure I did a good job.
> I actually had the exact same with a Schecter that cost the same amount (also with a gorgeous finish) so I guess for this price, it's usual practice to put effort in production and keep the setup summary ?


How much did you pay in the end if you don't mind me asking?


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## Vyn (Jun 5, 2018)

I play music said:


> You have to distinguish between things given by law and customer service / quality expectations beyond that. I think it is reasonably to expect the things given by law.
> I don't know about Australia but if a store here sells you a guitar (that is not sold as "decorative article" or something alike) with a not properly potted pickup then this is a flaw that the store can either fix or give you your money back - by law. No T&Cs can be above the law and take you this customer right.
> I see taking your rights away by expressing existing issues publicly also as something immoral.
> 
> Also keep in mind that a badly potted pickup is a functional flaw and in no way comparable to for example a not so cleanly done finish that would just be aesthetics but still allows you to use the guitar for its intended purpose.



That part of the T/C's I never saw (I was pretty new to the party), I was referring to the current set. Same deal in Australian Law, if the product has a defect then there's warrenty/repair/replacement/refund options. They main reason I brought up the T/C's in the first place was people complaining about the ordering process, not wanting to wait for their guitars and expecting ''flawless" guitars from a mass produced factory.

I'm not going to comment on what should/shouldn't have happened in Slaeyer's case as we don't know both sides of the story. If Slaeyer's claims are true then that's a violation of consumer law here as well but it's not mine or any of our places to comment on it, it's between Slaeyer and Ormsby. I simply said and I'll say it again, that I feel bad for the guy for having a negative experience with the company but I personally haven't had any bad dealings with them.


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## A-Branger (Jun 5, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> Well I did recieve the Goliath GTR 8 already. The quality is good as far as I'm concerned. A teeny tiny scratch on the side of the fretboard (probably a tool that ripped when putting a side dot or filing a fret) is all I could see, and it's really not a problem for me. As Vyn said, we should be careful not to be overly nitpicky. Otherwise it looks fantastic and the pickups sound good to me. Maybe a tad unbalanced, but all the frequencies you'd want are there. I'll do a bit of recording to compare it with other guitars/PU's.
> I would be a bit more critical on the setup side. It had a terrible fret buzz on the 1st and 2nd fret on the D-string. I gave the truss rod a twist and it's almost gone, but I hope it's not because the nut is filed too low for that particular string. The action looks quite high to me since the screws of the saddles are pretty deep but maybe that's inherent to the hipshot ? I never had one before. All in all, it looks to me like the setup guy looked only into the action and not the neck bow. Then again, the truss rod access is awkward so maybe he was just a bit lazy.
> In any case, it's nothing that I can't solve, but it always takes me several rounds of trial and error, and I'm never 100% sure I did a good job.
> I actually had the exact same with a Schecter that cost the same amount (also with a gorgeous finish) so I guess for this price, it's usual practice to put effort in production and keep the setup summary ?


congrats bro! remmeber to make a NGD post so we can see pics  hehe

and for the trussrod, well thats normal with every guitar. Different climates would make your neck to shift a little. 

Heres a pinned post from Perry on the GTR FB group



> Ok fellas, time to discuss truss rods. Just had someone upset that they guitar didnt arrive with a perfectly straight neck, after travelling on the back of a truck for a week. Its ok, we can fix you up...
> 
> We set these guitars up with ultra low action. 1.3-1.4mm treble, and 1.6mm bass side (1.7mm for sevens or strings larger than 52 gauge). These are our MINIMUM standards.
> 
> ...


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## Exchanger (Jun 6, 2018)

I play music said:


> How much did you pay in the end if you don't mind me asking?


Guitar itself was 1250 or so, shipping 115, taxes 125 so about 1500€ in total.



A-Branger said:


> congrats bro! remmeber to make a NGD post so we can see pics  hehe


Working on it - I'm planning to do a video as well for the sound.




A-Branger said:


> and for the trussrod, well thats normal with every guitar. Different climates would make your neck to shift a little.
> 
> Heres a pinned post from Perry on the GTR FB group



Ah my bad, then. I was mostly worried because it was on just one string but very present. And I'm always scared to mess it up when tampering with it (as in making the buzz worse and the action too high), perfectionnist issues I guess.


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## Slaeyer (Jun 6, 2018)

Maybe the HypeGTR I received was just a lemon... 

Actually I've been quite tempted to buy a Goliath but in the end settled on building another headless myself. 
Still I'd never buy from Ormsby again, esp. if I got the chance to buy it from a European dealer...


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## I play music (Jun 6, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> Guitar itself was 1250 or so, shipping 115, taxes 125 so about 1500€ in total.


So 400€ cheaper but with the extra risk. Well, for 400€ you can fix most problems that might occur, so buying direct might still be the way to go. Except if other dealers are cheaper than Thomann. 


Exchanger said:


> Ah my bad, then. I was mostly worried because it was on just one string but very present. And I'm always scared to mess it up when tampering with it (as in making the buzz worse and the action too high), perfectionnist issues I guess.


Since you said the buzz was only 1st and 2nd fret, I have a strong feeling it's a too low nut. But without having that thing in my hand, I can't really comment. 
If it were the truss rod, it would buzz on the whole fretboard I think.


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## I play music (Jun 6, 2018)

Slaeyer said:


> Maybe the HypeGTR I received was just a lemon...
> 
> Actually I've been quite tempted to buy a Goliath but in the end settled on building another headless myself.
> Still I'd never buy from Ormsby again, esp. if I got the chance to buy it from a European dealer...


I think the whole first run had those problems with the pickups not being properly potted. At least I've heard this already like 10 times.


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## Exchanger (Jun 7, 2018)

I play music said:


> Since you said the buzz was only 1st and 2nd fret, I have a strong feeling it's a too low nut. But without having that thing in my hand, I can't really comment.
> If it were the truss rod, it would buzz on the whole fretboard I think.


I turned the truss rod a little more, adjusted the action etc... and now the buzz is practically gone, but if you start picking quite hard it's still there and pops earlier with that specific string, at the same time the action on that string is a tad higher, as in, when you compare the fretbards curve to the curve made by the saddles, the D saddle sticks out by 0.3mm or so (eyeballed). I guess it would be ideal to shim the nut groove a little but is it actually possible ? The material you'd use should withstand quite some shear for when you tune and bend the string.


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## A-Branger (Jun 7, 2018)

I play music said:


> I think the whole first run had those problems with the pickups not being properly potted. At least I've heard this already like 10 times.


yup, it was a problem in the first couple of runs. Due to the nature of the pickup construction (type of cable used and amount of turns) meant that the wax didnt had enough time to settle in fully. Perry changed this at the factory by making them wax pot the pickups for a longer time, allowing the wax to fully cover the pickup. As far as I know there hasnt been any issues in run 3, and nothing so far in the run 4 Goliaths


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## A-Branger (Jun 7, 2018)

Exchanger said:


> I turned the truss rod a little more, adjusted the action etc... and now the buzz is practically gone, but if you start picking quite hard it's still there and pops earlier with that specific string, at the same time the action on that string is a tad higher, as in, when you compare the fretbards curve to the curve made by the saddles, the D saddle sticks out by 0.3mm or so (eyeballed). I guess it would be ideal to shim the nut groove a little but is it actually possible ? The material you'd use should withstand quite some shear for when you tune and bend the string.



yeh not sure whats with yours, maybe the nut was filled a bit too far?... Send an email to Ormsby explaining your situation to see what they recommend


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 17, 2018)

@KnightBrolaire

are the side dots on your Goliath drunk? Is this a bug or a feature?

better picture I took. no two dots here are on the same plane.


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## A-Branger (Jun 17, 2018)

mine are similar. Not all of them, but I got a couple of drunk ones. Honestly I dont care


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## jco5055 (Jun 18, 2018)

maybe it's just me, but as someone who would be interested in possibly owning an Ormsby (as various facebook groups, youtube reviews etc seem to imply he/the company is one of the straight up best), but as a member of the offical Ormsby guitar facebook group (the "Runs" group not just liking the facebook page), there really seems to be almost a cult-like attitude towards Perry and the company that weirds me out ...


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 18, 2018)

jco5055 said:


> maybe it's just me, but as someone who would be interested in possibly owning an Ormsby (as various facebook groups, youtube reviews etc seem to imply he/the company is one of the straight up best), but as a member of the offical Ormsby guitar facebook group (the "Runs" group not just liking the facebook page), there really seems to be almost a cult-like attitude towards Perry and the company that weirds me out ...



eh it's the same for every reddit/facebook group thingie man. anyone that posts in there every single day on every topic are doing it because they found a niche where they can finally belong. 

it's just basic psychology. don't let that turn you away from a guitar you might consider. look past that garbage and look for real honest reviews.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 18, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> @KnightBrolaire
> 
> are the side dots on your Goliath drunk? Is this a bug or a feature?
> 
> better picture I took. no two dots here are on the same plane.


mine aren't anywhere near as wonky as yours, but they are slightly wobbly, specifically the 15th fret is just a tiny bit higher than the others. The black filler around the luminlays is kind of messy on the 9th,12th and 24th frets.


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## bostjan (Jun 18, 2018)

Oh boy! That's not awful, but it'd be enough to constantly bother me. :/


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 18, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> mine aren't anywhere near as wonky as yours, but they are slightly wobbly, specifically the 15th fret is just a tiny bit higher than the others



I think your looks better then mine. Yours only look slight off. Mine look like the worker was drunk.

Still waiting to see what ormsby says.

@bostjan Would this give you fits. I wonder if I’m being unreasonable.


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## bostjan (Jun 18, 2018)

At least they seem to be consistently sloppy. 

Those fretboards also seem a little poorly planed, in that they aren't really "flat," if you know what I mean, which bothers me, visually, more than the inlays.

Thanks for posting these pic's.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 18, 2018)

bostjan said:


> At least they seem to be consistently sloppy.
> 
> Those fretboards also seem a little poorly planed, in that they aren't really "flat," if you know what I mean, which bothers me, visually, more than the inlays.
> 
> Thanks for posting these pic's.



Ya I dunno what to look for in that regard. The actual fretwork and neck are fine. Straight neck, no high frets, no sharp edges, low action. Plays well. 

The scale length needs some adjusting too. It's got a few minor things like a small finish defect and a small chip on the edge of the neck pocket. But at this price for a headless, that's ok for me.

but the side dots are for looking at...and looking at these gives me vertigo. 

Kind of still trying to figure out what to do. I've bought a lot of guitars and I've never returned a guitar for a visual defect before...but I've also never bought a new guitar that was this wonky.


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## Exchanger (Jun 18, 2018)

bostjan said:


> Those fretboards also seem a little poorly planed, in that they aren't really "flat," if you know what I mean, which bothers me, visually, more than the inlays.



Yeah the neck looks a little tilted forward, I think there is even a shim at the top of the heel on mine (no wonky side dots though). But looking at how the strings go into the bridge it makes sense that the neck is shimmed. Even with that shim the saddle screws are quite far in. I also remember seeing the following on the Kiesel "hate thread" : there was a whole debate around Aries having the neck shimmed in the other direction; coupled the thin bridge plate version, the saddles were absurdly high. Maybe they had the same issue here with the thin bridge plate, but had enough wits to shim it in the correct direction to compensate.


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## SDMFVan (Jun 21, 2018)

A-Branger said:


> mine are similar. Not all of them, but I got a couple of drunk ones. Honestly I dont care



Don't you work for Ormsby in some capacity? Of course you don't care. You should also disclose your affiliation with them in your signature.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 21, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> Don't you work for Ormsby in some capacity? Of course you don't care. You should also disclose your affiliation with them in your signature.


he mostly does mockups/some photography for them iirc. he also does mockups for sully.


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## A-Branger (Jun 21, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> Don't you work for Ormsby in some capacity? Of course you don't care. You should also disclose your affiliation with them in your signature.


I dont care, because I dont. Also mine are not that extreme, couple are bit off, but not that much.

Yes, I do the digital mockups for them, in return I get discounts, but Im not an employee.

Im in no obligation to defend them, I just honestly dont care about my sidedots being bit off. Same as my nut not being cut perfectly/smooth, or that the grain of my swamash body didnt line up perfect like other guitars, or that few of my last frets got bit filled down while doing the frets (my guess), so the frets 22-24 are not perfectly straight (the wood part of the edge between the frets Im referring), and I put those coments on my NGD. I got similar cosmetic issues with my Ibanez signature guitar. I dont care that much for those small cosmetic things. IF this was a custom guitar that I paid 4-5k$ then thats a different story.

the OP here are in his right to complain and ask for a refund if he wishes

theres a line/point $ number from where these cosmetic issues could be pass or be a reason to complain. How high/low is that bar everyone got different ideas.

I also update my signature, thanks for remind me. Took me a while to find out how to do it lol. But its been update it to avoid future out of context stuff then


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 24, 2018)

never ending drama with my Goliath. 

A-branger isn't wrong. At this price point I'll let a lot of things go. There's a spot on lower bevel where there's just no sparkle paint on top of the base coat. There's literally a three dimensional gap that's covered by the top clear coat. There's a chip in the neck pocket where the neck was obviously bumped sliding into the pocket. There's excessive glue on the nut. 

Whatever, this stuff is all ok. These are all minor cosmetic issues. Any guitar I own for a significant period of time is going to have so many dings and scratches that those won't be even noticeable. 

Side dots serve a functional purpose though. You are supposed to look at them. Now, wonky dots are ok. Every one of my guitars has a few wonky dots. My prestige Ibanez, my hapas, my skervesens all a little wonky. my prs my strandberg all good. Hilariously my Anderson has one dot that is just god awful. Just terrible. 

I also haven't bought any really cheap guitars in a long time. Cheap being 500 or less. However, I've done lots of wiring work on wmi PRS SE's and I've checked out a lot of SE's and schecters and lower Ibanez's at guitar stores. I've also spent the last week asking people and looking at pictures of Goliaths. 

I'm genuinely more curious then mad. However, my opinion of this matter, and granted my sample size is limited to about 100 guitars and maybe 10 Goliaths, is that these dots of simply the worst dots I have ever seen in my life at a price point 800 and up, and these dots are by far the worst Goliath side dots I have seen. 

But, Perry and I worked out a solution. 

However, I just discovered a significant electrical issue today. I'm going to talk to Perry about next week and then I'll do a write up here when we reach a solution. 

I'm slowly getting a bit more mad. I just feel like any one of these issues would be fine. 

All of these things I've found added together make me feel that QC failed at multiple points when building and examining this particular guitar. This should never have been sold as an A-stock new guitar. 

But, Perry's been great even if that fbook is just filled with idiots. So I'm sure we can work something out.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 26, 2018)

waiting for Ormsby to respond to my email about a neck exchange while watching Perry post hourly in the facebook group is lol.


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## Frey (Jun 27, 2018)

I've recently started GASing for a Goliath but the QC issues I'm now reading about give me something to think about. If I may interject with another question though. Can anyone here that has played or owned one of these comment on how the scale length feels compared to a more tradition fan ie 25.5-27? I really like the idea of even more tension on the lower strings but I worry about playing comfort on those first few frets.


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## I play music (Jun 27, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> waiting for Ormsby to respond to my email about a neck exchange while watching Perry post hourly in the facebook group is lol.


As long as you can laugh (out loud) about it, everything seems to be fine


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## jco5055 (Jun 27, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> waiting for Ormsby to respond to my email about a neck exchange while watching Perry post hourly in the facebook group is lol.



One thing I wish everyone could keep in mind (and this is not defending Ormsby in particular, I have no dog in this) is that if your business is big enough it is definitely possible for these seemingly "strange" email answering times vs facebook posts etc thing to just be 100% valid and nothing to worry about. I myself worked for such a company/role and there were plenty of times an email that would literally take me 2 minutes to answer had to wait days because of other necessary tasks etc.

As a Steam user, if anyone else is familiar with their legendary poor customer service/support times, once I read how many tickets/emails a day they get I completely understand why it would take them months sometimes to respond.


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 28, 2018)

Frey said:


> I've recently started GASing for a Goliath but the QC issues I'm now reading about give me something to think about. If I may interject with another question though. Can anyone here that has played or owned one of these comment on how the scale length feels compared to a more tradition fan ie 25.5-27? I really like the idea of even more tension on the lower strings but I worry about playing comfort on those first few frets.



well my review is here 

http://sevenstring.org/threads/nad-ormsby-goliath-6-string-review-and-stuff.330542/

you can read my thoughts on it


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## Slaeyer (Jun 28, 2018)

Frey said:


> I've recently started GASing for a Goliath but the QC issues I'm now reading about give me something to think about. If I may interject with another question though. Can anyone here that has played or owned one of these comment on how the scale length feels compared to a more tradition fan ie 25.5-27? I really like the idea of even more tension on the lower strings but I worry about playing comfort on those first few frets.



These days I really prefere the 25.5-27 with the 7th fret being the perpendicular one. The scale length and perpendicular fret Perry choose for the GTRs was too extreme for my average sized hands.


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## Frey (Jun 28, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> well my review is here
> 
> http://sevenstring.org/threads/nad-ormsby-goliath-6-string-review-and-stuff.330542/
> 
> you can read my thoughts on it



Read! Thanks again for sharing 



Slaeyer said:


> These days I really prefere the 25.5-27 with the 7th fret being the perpendicular one. The scale length and perpendicular fret Perry choose for the GTRs was too extreme for my average sized hands.



I also agree that 7 is ideal for the parallel fret. I bought an Ibanez RGIF7 when they first came out and had to return it because of how uncomfortable is was. I think they put theirs at the 12th fret if I recall correctly.

Thank you for the input though. I'm pretty torn between the LTD multiscale and an Ormsby at the moment and the scale length of the Ormsby is both drawing me in and putting me off. I love the idea of a bit more tension but it definitely doesn't LOOK very comfortable on those bottom frets


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## A-Branger (Jun 28, 2018)

Frey said:


> Thank you for the input though. I'm pretty torn between the LTD multiscale and an Ormsby at the moment and the scale length of the Ormsby is both drawing me in and putting me off. I love the idea of a bit more tension but it definitely doesn't LOOK very comfortable on those bottom frets



I havent had isues with it, but yeah it can be feel a bit of a stretch at the first couple of frets, but then again Im primarily a bass player so Im used to stretches lol 

IF you are not in the facebook GTR group, go there a join for a bit. Post a tread asking if theres any owner in your area that would let you give it a try, folks there are happy to meet up for that kind of stuff. Then you can check the guitar and the multiscale spread to see if you like or not. Then you can get out of the group if you want


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