# Wax On, Wax Off: A Fundamental Guide to Sweep Picking



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

Welcome_._

*Introduction*​_
I just want to thank everyone for being so encouraging and supportive, and I'm sincerely sorry that this took so much longer than I expected it to. I've been offered personal donations, editing help and lots of tips through my creation of this guide, and I'm flattered. It's especially great when a complete stranger offers you support in what you're doing. This forum is awesome. It's mostly just been me here in my room putting the pieces together. Having all of these people from all over the world interested in something that I want to make is so inspiring, and I probably wouldn't have written this for myself if it wasn't for you guys. So thank you one more time, and I hope there's something here for you.


I love the Make-A-Wish Foundation. 
If you'd like to support them, you can here: https://wish.org/ways-to-help/giving/donate
If you'd like to become a volunteer, you can here: Volunteering | Ways To Help | Make-A-Wish® America

I am extremely hesitant to accept personal donations, because that's not at all why I wrote this guide. I would prefer if you sent those to Make-A-Wish. If you'd like to show some love and gratitude, you can do that at no cost to yourself and without ever spending a dime by checking out the first post that I've made in this thread, directly below this guide. You will also be getting something else in exchange as well, but you'll just have to read the details to find out what that is and if it's right for you personally. Let's move along. 
_ 
*
So Who is This Guy?*
​ 
My name is Adam, and I've been working on my sweeps for a good four years. I practiced at least a few hours per week (and sometimes a lot more) on my sweeping technique, and I can comfortably say that most of that time was horribly inefficient, both in how long it took to learn and in my execution of the skill. I sucked. 

But now I'm learning quickly and completely, and there's a reason for that. It didn't happen on accident &#8211; I set out to do it, and I can now say that I've succeeded. I stand by everything written here, not because I wrote it, but because it works extremely well for me. I feel like I have the formula here to learn any sweep arepeggio, shape, or pattern that I could ever want with a comfortable level of practice. 

With that said, I understand that there is always still room to grow and improve. If I made any mistakes, I will accept them and move forward. I will still continue to learn more about this technique, and I encourage you to do the same.



*How Do I Know This Will Work? *​ 
I've learned 81 different sweep arpeggios, shapes and patterns with near perfect accuracy in just under 6 weeks, compared to 200 (at best) in the last 4~ years (roughly 1 per week versus over 10 per week). This improved growth was after I built the outline of this guide and started putting it into practice. Your mileage may vary &#8211; you might learn more, you might learn less, but I can guarantee you there's something here that can help you (if you haven't learned it on your own time already, of course. I know you've been practicing). 

I recommend that you *keep track of your own growth too*, as it really puts this stuff into perspective when you can see 81 different things you've learned in such a short span of time. I use a simple piece of paper and a pencil, draw a fretboard diagram of what I've learned and stash it away for later. I have 25 pages of this stuff within arms' reach of me. Hard work counts for something. I even have a spinny desk chair so I don't have to crank my neck. 




Enough with the introductions though. Let's get started.



*The Technical Overview*
​ Sweep picking itself has nothing to do with music theory. It is purely technical until it is applied to a musical context. What this means for you is that there is going to be a period of time where *you must comfortably learn each specific application of sweeping before you can use it musically*, and you're likely already familiar with this from having to learn chord changes and melodic phrasing. However, due to the sheer amount of possibilities created by sweep picking, there's a higher volume of tricky, subtle movements that are required of both of your hands. 


It's normal for the very early stages to feel mechanical. This is ok, it's normal, and you're on the right track. I can typically pass this stage of practice within 30-100 reps of any given shape in most instances, unless they're very foreign to me and demand more work. With that said, I would like to give you the first epiphany that changed my progress dramatically: 


*The skill of sweep picking is heavily dependent on the way that we approach practicing adjustments in our minor details. *In other words, the faster that you can solidify a small, subtle motion, the faster your learning process will be. If we practice sweeping without a strong sense of what it takes to learn accurately on a very fine level, we're going to have poor results.

It's not _what_ you're practicing. It's _how_ you're practicing. I heard that on the day that I bought my first guitar and it keeps proving itself to me year in year and year out. 

With that said, the goal of this guide is to help you with HOW you're practicing these so that you can comfortably choose WHAT you want to play. Even if you're already painfully aware of this, it's worth saying again because it's just that important. 

Learning efficiently is the ultimate goal. We want to spend as little time and effort as possible to get the best result possible. Sound impossible? Nah. It's simple. Most of the difficulty that you're likely to experience with sweeping will come from a basic lack of awareness. Once you have that awareness, everything will be much easier by leaps and bounds.



*Basis & Fundamentals*

Why sweep pick..? Sweep picking is great because it gives us a new way to consecutively pick up and down the strings and fretboard without using very much physical energy or straining our muscles. It is incredibly efficient for large arpeggios and ascending/descending phrasing.


A sweep can happen with 2 or more consecutive pick attacks in the same direction.
For example, Down/Down and Up/Up &#8211; these are the smallest chains of sweeping that exist. The / represents a string change between the two pick attacks.
If you aren't using consecutive strokes while moving up and down the strings, you aren't sweeping. As soon as you break the chain, you've moved into alternate, inside or outside picking territory.
The process expands outward from there. There are no "rules" for the fretting hand - your hand can move vertically, diagonally, horizontally, etc, but as soon as the chain is broken with the picking hand, the sweep is over and does not begin again until 2 consecutive single pick attacks are being played across 2 strings.
 













_(I'm not a photoshop expert..............yet)_

Notice how each 2 corresponds to 2 strings, each 3 corresponds to 3 strings, etc. These are all of the available groupings for sweeping. 

A list breakdown would look like this:
2 String Combinations: EA, AD, DG, GB, BE
3 String Combinations: EAD, ADG, DGB, GBE
4 String Combinations: EADG, ADGB, DGBE
5 String Combinations: EADGB, ADGBE
6 String Combinations: EADGBE 

That's *-it-*. Every sweep that exists (in a 6-string application, at least) will always be a movement that can be categorized into one of these groups.

It's important to *permanently* understand these groupings, because all pick-hand technique will fall into one of these groupings. Pretty cool right? If you understand the above picture, you'll be able to find every possible sweep option with your picking hand based on the natural order of the strings. It's an easy system to remember. Once your picking hand is well informed, you can start comfortably synchronizing your fretting hand to match the actual sweep motion. 

This understanding can be used to quickly and efficiently learn the picking-hand aspect of sweeping. By isolating our picking until it is comfortable, we can devote more of our focus to our fretted notes without having to fumble around with the timing of our down and upstrokes.


*Basic Form *


Imagine that you're strumming a big open chord like a G major or an E minor. As you lift the pick to go for a downstroke across all 6 strings, the notes all seem to ring out at the same time. The truth is that the pick is really just hitting each string so quickly that it sounds as though they're all ringing at once. I want you to vividly imagine strumming a chord in super slow motion, like those slow-mo videos on youtube.


_(Coincidentally there's a guitar instrumental here)_


Now visually imagine that you're strumming a chord in ultra slow-motion, just like in this video. As your pick slowly crosses each individual string, you fret a note at the exact moment that the pick crosses the string. As the pick continues to fall from string to string, you fret a note on each individual string to match the moments where the pick crosses the strings. If you've seen the Matrix, think of all the Neo fight scenes that slow down temporarily and then rush back up to full speed. 


The only major difference between this visual concept of sweep picking and the reality of sweep picking is that strumming comes from big, swinging motions of the elbow while sweep picking comes from small, short movements from string to string. How you achieve this motion will vary based on a few different circumstances. 

Some people will use their wrist in their sweeps, while others keep their wrist in a fixed position and sweep purely from the opening and closing motion of the elbow. Some players use a little bit more of their shoulder to achieve the effect. There's also the option of making small motions with the thumb and index finger. Then finally we have the pinnacle, which is a hybrid approach that uses a little of this and a little of that instead of creating the motion from one specific part of the body. 

You need to be aware of what's most comfortable and relaxed for YOU &#8211; *NEVER EVER EVER* let someone tell you that a specific form is &#8220;proper&#8221; if it isn't *comfortable for you* or causes you harsh, painful muscular strain. The width of your arm, size of your wrist, size of your pick, size of your guitar, position of your guitar, vertical angle of your guitar, horizontal angle of your guitar, etc etc etc will all slightly change what's most comfortable and relaxed for you. Posture in general is a crucial aspect of our bodies, and it's completely worth our time to work on. 

Just remember that the goal is to be AS RELAXED AS POSSIBLE to avoid excess strain, as long as it can still getting the job done. This should feel obscenely easy to do for extended periods of time with a decent amount of focused practice. 



*
Good videos to watch for posture and form:*
Skip to 2:48 in the video. Notice how the instructor's wrist drops slightly as he finishes while he opens and closes his elbow. Then, he starts playing purely with the drop of his wrist and no use of his elbow. I'm not sure why this guy changes it up so much, but it's a perfect demonstration of two common approaches to the sweep motion. 

(Feel free to watch the entire video if you'd like, but *first skip to 2:48* to see what I mean about wrist and elbow mechanics) 

Which approach is best? Whichever causes the least strain, is the most comfortable and can still get the job done.


This video by Yngwie himself is quick, and it really shows just how efficiently a picking hand can move while playing at a high level. Notice how little he needs to move his hand to achieve this effect at 00:13. 



Mo' fkn Jeff Loomis (Sweeping in a musical context. Notice how fluidly he is able to transition into and out of sweeps. The actual reason that this video is here though is because he is a great example of using a little bit of shoulder motion in a sweep, as seen at around the 2:40-2:47 mark.)




Petrucci &#8211; pay attention to his picking hand, and notice how both of his hands know exactly where and when they need to move together. This technique is all about synchronization. You could draw a line between his pick hand and his fret hand and you'd see that the left hand and right hand are always moving together. 



There's hundreds of other videos on Youtube, and I fully recommend doing extra research for your own benefit. Pay specific attention to the thumb, index finger, wrist, elbow and shoulder motions that they make and then decide for yourself if you can improve your form comfortably based on their approach. 



*My 6 Fundamentals*


My goal in creating this list was to give myself a natural set of fundamentals that would last me the rest of my life, or at the very least a nice chunk of it. 


*Each shape, pattern and arpeggio requires its own individual time to learn.* It gets easier and easier to freestyle with a sweep as you learn more and more, but any new transition and movement will require its own practice time. Some will be more difficult than others. Any arpeggio, melodic sequence, phrase or other application of sweep picking requires intentional practice of both the left AND right hand in a synchronized motion.
*The small, individual pieces of the sweep are where all the work needs to be focused.* Transitioning from the pinky to the first finger, adjusting the arc of a finger, adjusting the landing position of a finger, repositioning the left hand, etc. The small micro-movements that happen at a fraction of a second are what you *NEED* to pay attention to. You *NEED* to pay attention to this. This is huge.
*The human brain naturally possesses the ability to reconstruct time in slow motion.* You want to access this biological ability in virtually every practice session, regardless of whether or not it's a sweep session. You can slow everything down when you're practicing as if you were slowing down time itself. You were born with this skill and it was free. Use it! You'll get better at it the more you do it as with any other skill. You don't need a metronome to slow down. Develop the skill. Working with a metronome can be counterproductive when you are working on just getting your fingers to land in the right spot.
*Once you can slow it down, tinker with or &#8220;engineer&#8221; each individual motion.* If you are transitioning from one string to another and are having trouble with accuracy, slow that down, focus on it with all every last bit of attention that you have and watch yourself play. Smooth it out. Tell your fingers where they MUST go. This is like #2 on steroids. If your pinky is slightly out of position, it is your job to tell it where it needs to go instead. Nobody else can do it for you.
*Playing in time and playing accurately come after the &#8220;engineering&#8221; stages of practice are over.* If you are trying to play against a backing track or a metronome before you've successfully smoothed out all of the kinks in your micro-movements and the way the note sounds when you play it, the sweep will sound god awful and potentially diminish your motivation. Respect the fact that learning a sweep happens in gradual, progressive stages. This is what makes the process go faster, NOT adjusting a metronome upwards and expecting yourself to just &#8220;get better.&#8221; Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off.
*Respect the need for sleep. You **WILL**(!) get better while you sleep as your body makes what you've learned more natural and instinctive.* How well you've practiced is measured in weeks, not hours. If you are too impatient to respect this, congratulations, you just learned that you have a personal issue with patience. It's a life-changing skill to have. Develop it. You cannot learn everything in a day, so it's pointless to beat yourself up if you haven't learned instantly. You still need to be able to critically judge your results in a way that will lead to your improvement, but not in a way that is self-destructive or makes you feel crappy. Keep Calm & Carry On.
 

That's -IT- for the fundamentals. *Burn these 6 understandings into your brain until you can't possibly forget them and your results will improve dramatically.* 


While I stand by these as a fully-functional list of fundamentals, I do not believe in strict or rigid absolutes. The fact that I understand the in's and out's of this technique does not mean that I will not question my own ideas, and I encourage you to be flexible with the information that you receive here (and anywhere else, for that matter). Even with that said, I can still state with pure confidence that if you successfully learn these fundamentals, you will see faster, cleaner and more complete growth in your abilities. 



*Integration: Music & You *​ 
*Technical Integration *
Applying sweep picking is as easy as any other form of picking - just because it takes a little longer to learn doesn't mean that it's harder to use. In reality, sweep picking functions the same as almost any other pick: 


You can change it up with hammer ons, pull offs, slides, vibrato, bends, trills, tapping and the works. It is just another tool on your swiss army knife of techniques.
Sweeping can be used rhythmically or melodically. It has no natural style of it's own; the way that it is applied is purely your choice.
 A sweep can &#8220;land&#8221; on any string. This makes it one of the most expansive, open-ended skills that you can possibly learn in terms of creating melodies at higher tempos. There's only so much you can do with one or two strings, and once you have sweeping, you have the juggernaut of vertical transition skills. There is a general sense that sweeping is a &#8220;metal&#8221; skill, but that's fundamentally wrong. Three of the most notable, early developers of the skill were Chuck Wayne, Tal Farlow and more recently Frank Gambale &#8211; jazz guys. It has it's application in any style because sweeping itself has no stylistic limitations. It is purely technical until applied in a musical context. 


Once a sweep has &#8220;landed&#8221; on a string, you can play as normally as you would have without the sweep. If you were to sweep downstrokes your 4 lowest strings on a six string guitar, you would &#8220;land&#8221; on G (E->A->D->G) and you could do anything you wanted with that G. You could slide a few frets, throw some vibrato in there, bend a half step, bend a whole step, hammer or pull off some stuff, play a pinch harmonic, play a natural harmonic, mozy your fingers on over and tap some notes, or you could just stop there and move your fret hand somewhere else. It's very open-ended.




*Sweep Tapping*

Sweep Tapping is one of the most common integrations of the skill and is surprisingly easy to get down. The trick with adding a tap is all about accuracy and precognition. First, your hand needs to be able to hit the exact point on the fretboard where it's landing. Let's say you're sweeping a C Minor arpeggio (C, D#, G or C, Eb, G) but want to tap the octave of one of the notes for a bigger interval or throw the 7th in somewhere. You need to know exactly where that note is, the exact path that your finger needs to travel to get there and you need to practice that transition in slow motion until you can hit the note consistently. 

This has nothing to do with a metronome, it's all about knowing where your finger of choice needs to land to tap the note. Just focus on being able to land in the right place at first and work on timing once your accuracy is second nature. THEN you can start piecing the shape together in time. If you try to add a tap into a sweep before your accuracy is smoothed out, your focus is going to be divided between the movement of your fret hand, the movement of your picking hand and the position of the tap. This is just too much to process at a fraction of a second until you've earned your stripes. Improvising a tap isn't impossible, but it is definitely more difficult than improvising other techniques. 

(A long visual list of arpeggios is referenced in the coming section if you want to specifically work through the C Minor example.)



*Rolling*

The only guide to rolling that I've ever needed was courtesy of Justin Sandercoe of http://Justinguitar.com. The technique is straightforward, but can be a little tricky to master comfortably. I personally pull back a little bit from the shoulder to speed up the flattening of my fingertip, but that might not be comfortable for you. Check out the very same vid that I used to master this technique:




*Muting and Noise Issues*

Sweep picking can be a pain on gritty amp settings. If your mutes aren't perfect, you're going to get a little bit of ambient fuzzy nonsense going on in the background and it can be annoying as all hell. 

You can always cheat with a scrunchie kept behind the nut, but aside from that, you're going to need a little bit of pizzicato/staccato skills. With a guitar and specifically sweep picking, the only way to effectively mute the notes consistently involves a blend of hand positioning and a precise end to the notes being played (see here: Pizzicato - How To Execute It Cleanly). The hand positioning is very much like palm muting, but sometimes you will need to extend your pinky to the highest strings to keep them from being noisy little bastards. 



*My Personal Muting Method*
​ My muting method is a little bit more complex &#8211; it involves both hands and a specific lift technique. It is inspired by all those natural harmonics I ruined. When I'm lifting my fingers off the note, I lift my finger to the same point where a natural harmonic would normally be muted &#8211; this completely deadens the strings ringing. (If you're not familiar with natural harmonics, I recommend this lesson by my first guitar teacher, David Taub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAP0je2gwSQ)



Anyways, when I lift my finger off the note, I basically mute the string with the tip of my finger at the same time that I begin playing the next note in the series. I also can use the palm of my picking hand for the rest of the strings, or I can use the palm and fingers of my fretting hand against the strings to mute them. I have lots of options. Palm muting usually works for most folks, but I definitely recommend that you pay attention to the way that your fingers lift off of the strings. Play any note you want with your index finger and let go of the note very slowly without necessarily taking the weight of your finger off of it. At a certain point, it will be naturally muted by the weight of your finger. Again, this takes a lot of finesse and happens in a fraction of a second, so you need to be prepared to do this slowly and accurately before you can apply it musically. 




*Links that I don't know where to fit in any other place
so they're going here just because*​ Other helpful article snippets include: 
A Clean Sweep: Mastering Sweep-Picked Arpeggios with Yngwie Malmsteen | Guitar World

A Clean Sweep: Mastering Sweep Arpeggios with John Petrucci | Guitar World







*Theoretical Integration 
*​ 
Using sweep picking from a theoretical perspective is as easy as understanding where chords are located and finding a way to apply them musically. 

If you are new to theory, use link A and B. If you've got a good hold on theory, just use link B. 


*Link A*
*If you are brand new or still wet behind the ears with your music theory skills, go here:*
http://www.zentao.com/guitar/guitar-lessons.html
The username and password prompt gives you the username and password that you need to enter the site. The calculated password is just adding 1 to the long string of numbers that they give you. It is worth the hassle to log on here and get a basic course on theory because everything here is awesome, and I do not have time to write a 101 course on theory. This site makes it extremely easy, and it's written in a 1-2-3-4 linear order. It's awesome. I love it. 



*Link B*
*If you already know what key or scale you're playing in and just want a list of arpeggios to work from, go here:*
The Big Bad Arpeggio List 
Arpeggio Patterns and Diagrams For Guitar in all Keys
This is the mecca of guitar arpeggios. Everything that you need is listed in the upper left hand corner. 




*My Personal Sweep Picking Exercise Routine*​ 

*Clip and file nails.*
*Stretch both hands lightly. *I stretch between each finger, both wrists, my forearms, elbows, shoulders, neck and back.
*Warm Up (15 minutes, but never strictly timed)*. I don't care what I play to warm up &#8211; my only goal is to get my head in the game. Once my mind is focused on music, and my fingers feel good, I'll set a metronome to 10 BPM and play, then 100 BPM, then 150, then 200 and then 250. This gives me a broad spectrum of comfort and I can start practicing at whatever speed I want.
*Pick 1 Arpeggio, 1 General Shape and 1 pattern-based approach.* An arpeggio is self-explanatory. A general shape is just something that resembles an X, a diagonal line, a greater than symbol, etc. It's just a way of thinking outside of the box. A pattern can musical (Root, 2, 4, Octave, 9th, Dim 12th) or physical (3rd Fret, 4th Fret, 4th Fret, 3rd Fret, 3rd Fret 4th fret). Those are just examples and there's probably billions or trillions or quadrillions of patterns but I really don't care how many there are. If there's more than 100,000 I just group it into the &#8220;ahhh ****&#8221; category of numbers.
*Play all 3 very slowly and write notes on which transitions are lacking.* If my pinky is being unruly, I note that down and specifically work on my pinky. I do this because there's no point in practicing parts that I can already do successfully, it's usually just a waste of time. By focusing on my weakest areas, I improve the amount of growth that I get out of each minute by 50% or more. For example, if I'm sweeping 6 strings and only 1 transition is giving me problems, I save a lot of time by only playing that transition over and over ad naseum instead of playing all of the transitions. If I stretch out a sweep to take 10 seconds and only 1 of those seconds are spent working on the actual transition that I need, I've basically wasted 90% of my practice time. 90% is the difference between a 10-string guitar and a 1-string guitar. That's a whole lotta difference.
*If anything's giving me troubles, I'll make an extra note of that.* I take a break after 30-45 minutes of this stuff because I'm usually mentally fatigued by then. After that, I'll either listen to music, work on things that actually pay the bills or do one of the various other activities that permeate my life.
*I repeat this cycle a few times per day as time permits,* or at least I have while writing this guide. The next part of my guitar life will see me working on writing and playing a few instrumental guitar ideas that have been running through my head for the last 2 or 3 years, so there won't be as much time to practice this technique. Fortunately, I can learn quickly and efficiently as a result of everything you've just read, so I'm not really sweating my ability to pick anything up that's required for me to make music in the future.
 








​ 

This is fun. Keep that in mind. Have fun with learning and you're doing better than everyone that's sitting there miserably in some dark room whining over how they just &#8220;can't get it.&#8221; If you're enjoying yourself, you're winning. It's that easy.


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

If you'd like to assist me in developing the dream of my own home studio so that I can make music, record lessons and do what I love for a living (all being released for free of course, much like this was), or you just want to say thanks for the guide, you can show some love by clicking here:


Guitar Tricks Free, All-Access Membership for 2 Weeks


Guitar Tricks takes fantastic care of me for sending new members their way, even if you decide that you don't want to subscribe when your 2 weeks is up. 

Some basic info: 


The two weeks are completely free of charge, and you get to see the whole package for yourself with zero limits.
 If you end up being charged something because you forgot to cancel and decide that you can't afford the $15 subscription or just aren't happy with GuitarTricks, *they will always refund your money for up to 60 days without ever hassling you.*
This means that there is no risk for you. If you just want to check them out, you're completely welcome to do so. If you decide to stick around, even better.
I have nothing to gain from you subscribing. They take care of me regardless of whether or not you continue your membership.
If you do decide to subscribe after the 2 free weeks, the membership is only 50 cents per day and there's thousands of lessons available at every hour of the day. It's pretty sweet.
I used GuitarTricks myself for a very long time and am still subscribed to this day. I don't work for them - I'm a regular dude. I'd never recommend them if I thought they sucked. I believe that they are the best bang for your buck out there, and I've tried quite a few different lesson sites over the last few years.


Thanks for checking it out! If you just read all that and don't want to scroll back up, there's another link right here: Guitar Tricks Free, All-Access Membership for 2 Weeks




Don't forget the Make A Wish foundation either! 






AND! If you guys see any spelling or grammar mistakes, I totally won't be offended if you tell me about em. Thanks!

-Adam


----------



## wespaul (Jul 19, 2013)

Glad to eat my words on this. I genuinely thought it'd never see the light of day. Grats!


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

thanks 


has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like eric johnson


----------



## The Reverend (Jul 19, 2013)

Very good. I liked how you included video of certain techniques you were talking about as well, which really helps me a lot.


----------



## crg123 (Jul 19, 2013)

this is great! I'll have to take a closer look tonight.


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

crg123 said:


> this is great! I'll have to take a closer look tonight.



Take your time, it's meant for a few good read-throughs.


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

The Reverend said:


> Very good. I liked how you included video of certain techniques you were talking about as well, which really helps me a lot.



And if I ever make it off of the financial hamster wheel that I've landed myself on, I'll have my own vids! Really long ones. It'll be awesome.


----------



## Evilized (Jul 19, 2013)

Just skimmed over this briefly before class starts. Needless to say, I know what I'm going to do for most of tonight. And probably most of the weekend. 

Thanks for all your time and effort 80H, I'm excited to get started on this!


----------



## crg123 (Jul 19, 2013)

80H, 

I can upload this in pdf format for anyone if they want. I just want your go ahead before I do it. I'll convert all the youtube links to standard (clickable) instead of forum based. 

i.e https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71nURVXXeaM

Instead of "[FONT=&quot][youtube vid]71nURVXXeaM[/MEDIA]"


[/FONT]


----------



## Kaickul (Jul 19, 2013)

Thank you so much, if I have extra time, I read your guide thoroughly.


----------



## CD1221 (Jul 19, 2013)

That was much better than I expected. Really well done, thanks.


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

Evilized said:


> Just skimmed over this briefly before class starts. Needless to say, I know what I'm going to do for most of tonight. And probably most of the weekend.
> 
> Thanks for all your time and effort 80H, I'm excited to get started on this!



Hurray! Glad you like it. 



crg123 said:


> 80H,
> 
> I can upload this in pdf format for anyone if they want. I just want your go ahead before I do it. I'll convert all the youtube links to standard (clickable) instead of forum based.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure there was already a request for the PDF in the last thread and I have no problem with that at all. You absolutely have my permission, but I would appreciate it if you would add the line "Made by 80h for the Sevenstring.org forums" at the top of the page. 

I was going to make a PDF later anyways since this is all saved in openoffice, but I had some formatting issues and decided to put it off in favor of the other unguitary obligations I so unfortunately have in my life. 



Liquid Rage said:


> Thank you so much, if I have extra time, I read your guide thoroughly.



When it comes to guitar practice, the only time you will ever have is the time that you make. 



CD1221 said:


> That was much better than I expected. Really well done, thanks.



WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN???


Kidding. Proof's in the pudding, I know, I know. But **** pudding. Nobody needs those carbs. Eat a peach.


----------



## xzyryabx (Jul 19, 2013)

Hi again.
Thanks for taking the time to write this up!!!
Can I make a request however?
Can you go iinto more detail about the various sweep shapes for us that are not as comfortable with applying this technique to theory?
By that I mean, for example, listing the basic shapes of the major, minor, dimished, augmented sweeps, their inversions, and the 3/4/5/6 string sweep shapes?
I know it gets a bit involved but I have always found that to be a bit too much to get my head around.
You mentioned you learned around 700 sweep patterns, so not asking you to list all of them of course, just the basic logic and go-to-shapes to help implement the technique in practice. More theory than anything else, but I think it's an important aspect of any sweeping lesson.

Thanks again!!


----------



## crg123 (Jul 19, 2013)

Here you go guys! *This is the pdf'd version:*

80H's Sevenstring.org Fundamental Guide to Sweep Picking Wax on Wax off.pdf

Thank's again* 80H*! (Let me know if you'd like any changes, I can always reupload it).


----------



## c0n0r (Jul 19, 2013)

Top notch! Really impressed with the time and effort you've put into this! Thank you!


----------



## EcoliUVA (Jul 19, 2013)

THIS, folks. I agree so incredibly strongly with all of this. If you're struggling, read every damn word (and more importantly, FOLLOW THROUGH). The tips in the fundamentals section are EXACTLY how human beings learn - widely misunderstood. Tips 3 through 6 are universal.

So, I'll repeat what 80H (the OP) has stated: Burn those tips into your brain. You are absolutely capable of overcoming any obstacle with your guitar playing. I'm derping my way through them on a regular basis - don't get discouraged, it takes time! No deity has ever handed anyone the ability to play like (insert guitar overlord of choice). It's up to you, entirely. 

(Side note: Thanks for the zentao tip, I used it 5 or 6 years ago, then was trying to show it to someone else recently and thought it was borked! Kind of excited to go back over that site again.)


----------



## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

xzyryabx said:


> Hi again.
> Thanks for taking the time to write this up!!!
> Can I make a request however?
> Can you go iinto more detail about the various sweep shapes for us that are not as comfortable with applying this technique to theory?
> ...



I didn't say 700 lol, and please check Link B in the theoretical integration section. The site linked has every major/minor/aug/dim/7th/etc arpeggio across the entire range of the fretboard. It would be pointless for me to write them out when that site's already done such a good job with them. 




crg123 said:


> Here you go guys! *This is the pdf'd version:*
> 
> 80H's Sevenstring.org Fundamental Guide to Sweep Picking Wax on Wax off.pdf
> 
> Thank's again* 80H*! (Let me know if you'd like any changes, I can always reupload it).



Awesome, thanks man!



c0n0r said:


> Top notch! Really impressed with the time and effort you've put into this! Thank you!



You're welcome!



EcoliUVA said:


> THIS, folks. I agree so incredibly strongly with all of this. If you're struggling, read every damn word (and more importantly, FOLLOW THROUGH). The tips in the fundamentals section are EXACTLY how human beings learn - widely misunderstood. Tips 3 through 6 are universal.
> 
> So, I'll repeat what 80H (the OP) has stated: Burn those tips into your brain. You are absolutely capable of overcoming any obstacle with your guitar playing. I'm derping my way through them on a regular basis - don't get discouraged, it takes time! No deity has ever handed anyone the ability to play like (insert guitar overlord of choice). It's up to you, entirely.
> 
> (Side note: Thanks for the zentao tip, I used it 5 or 6 years ago, then was trying to show it to someone else recently and thought it was borked! Kind of excited to go back over that site again.)



D'aww shucks, you're too good to me. 

And yeah, zentao is the reason I stopped sucking. When I realized I hated college except for the girls, I would just look up zentao on my phone and ignore my professors and take notes on the guitar theory page. I dropped out shortly thereafter lol


----------



## Legion (Jul 20, 2013)

Dude, I CANNOT thank you enough for this. MAJOR kudos.


Now if someone can help me with my alternate picking


----------



## Fredrish (Jul 20, 2013)

Awesome lesson! Your approach to practice is sound and logical. Very methodical. Great work!


----------



## 80H (Jul 21, 2013)

Legion said:


> Dude, I CANNOT thank you enough for this. MAJOR kudos.
> 
> 
> Now if someone can help me with my alternate picking



you've gotta go wanananananananananananananana while you play and you will have the best alternate picks ever 



Fredrish said:


> Awesome lesson! Your approach to practice is sound and logical. Very methodical. Great work!



Thanks. I try to work through things in a way that don't just make sense to me, but would make sense to anyone else if they were to start at the same point A and and finish at the same point B


----------



## Wings of Obsidian (Jul 21, 2013)

HOORAY!!! IT'S HERE! IT'S HERE! ^-^

Thank you 8OH!!!


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Jul 21, 2013)

STICKY THIS SHIT!

I am thankful, 80H.


----------



## Maniacal (Jul 21, 2013)

Legion said:


> Dude, I CANNOT thank you enough for this. MAJOR kudos.
> 
> 
> Now if someone can help me with my alternate picking



I am in the process of recording lots of alternate picking lessons, including a break down of the speed and endurance exercises from my first book.


----------



## 80H (Jul 21, 2013)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> HOORAY!!! IT'S HERE! IT'S HERE! ^-^
> 
> Thank you 8OH!!!



yw but now you have to work through it  




DarkWolfXV said:


> STICKY THIS SHIT!
> 
> I am thankful, 80H.



i think it might get less exposure if it's stickied lol



Maniacal said:


> I am in the process of recording lots of alternate picking lessons, including a break down of the speed and endurance exercises from my first book.



make sure you add the wanananananananananananananana part


----------



## Shredderboy1658 (Jul 21, 2013)

MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS


----------



## 80H (Jul 21, 2013)

Guitar World article from the 19th. I posted this on the 18th. How do I stack up to a big time magazine?!

Big Strokes: A Beginner's Guide to Sweeping | Guitar World


----------



## farren (Jul 23, 2013)

Great write-up. I've been ruminating on a sort of technical-philosophical write-up myself and at the base of it is the same "efficiency is everything" idea that involves watching your fingers intently and scrutinizing every little bit of expenditure of energy. You've saved me some time as you've already said all I intended to, and likely more.

Your fundamentals, distilled to their core, are easily adapted to alternate picking and just about anything else and I hope people who aren't into sweep-picking realize that and check out your thread anyway.


----------



## 80H (Jul 23, 2013)

farren said:


> Great write-up. I've been ruminating on a sort of technical-philosophical write-up myself and at the base of it is the same "efficiency is everything" idea that involves watching your fingers intently and scrutinizing every little bit of expenditure of energy. You've saved me some time as you've already said all I intended to, and likely more.
> 
> Your fundamentals, distilled to their core, are easily adapted to alternate picking and just about anything else and I hope people who aren't into sweep-picking realize that and check out your thread anyway.



Very astute of you. Most of my fundamentals are branches of core philosophies that I developed while writing my first book, which was finished nearly 2 years ago and has been finely aging in my dropbox ever since. I'm still not sure what it's future is, but I think it's kind of pointless to release it without some kind of legitimate base of viewers that can turn the hundreds of tedious hours of work into enough money to cover rent.


----------



## Harry (Jul 24, 2013)

Epic guide, man
I agree with Shredderboy and DarkWolfXV, worthy of being a sticky


----------



## Santuzzo (Jul 24, 2013)

I finally took the time to read through your guide. Thank you so much for making this. It's great to read more about the how-to, ie the way of approaching the practicing. 

Once again: Thank You!


----------



## Semi-pro (Jul 25, 2013)

Awesome to see someone taking his time to bring out all the details of the tehnique. Thanks!

One question to the OP though: Do you have any videos or sound clips of your playing? I don't mean to be unthankful or anything, nor saying that I don't believe in your words, but you know, the internets is full of "lessons" by some guy who talks for 5 minutes and then plays a crappy example (seen them quite a lot here on SSO too actually). More convincing would be a punch-in-the-face kind of introduction followed by an explanation. What I'm trying to say here I guess is that it would be nice to see a some sort of introduction to totally nail this and make the lesson perfect and ace 

Anyways, thanks again!


----------



## 80H (Jul 25, 2013)

Semi-pro said:


> Awesome to see someone taking his time to bring out all the details of the tehnique. Thanks!
> 
> One question to the OP though: Do you have any videos or sound clips of your playing? I don't mean to be unthankful or anything, nor saying that I don't believe in your words, but you know, the internets is full of "lessons" by some guy who talks for 5 minutes and then plays a crappy example (seen them quite a lot here on SSO too actually). More convincing would be a punch-in-the-face kind of introduction followed by an explanation. What I'm trying to say here I guess is that it would be nice to see a some sort of introduction to totally nail this and make the lesson perfect and ace
> 
> Anyways, thanks again!




That's what I would have preferred to do myself - I know it hurts to NOT have it there. It's pretty stressful to want it there and not be able to add it. All I can say for now is that I'm working on it. It's the rent/food/gas/bills/truck repairs/nights out for my sanity that slow down the process. I could buy a cheap camera and recording equipment, but I'd much rather just save to around $10-15k and do it the right way so that people could actually hear/see what I'm saying through my own perspective. I'm aiming for Sep/Nov, though I also understand that the universe is a tricky little bastard sometimes. My current location is not so great for all of this, so factor in the cost of a move and you might see why I've got a lot on my plate. This guide itself may have been a little bit premature, but I don't even care, it was fun and I'm happy I did it.


----------



## farren (Jul 25, 2013)

Semi-pro said:


> Awesome to see someone taking his time to bring out all the details of the tehnique. Thanks!
> 
> One question to the OP though: Do you have any videos or sound clips of your playing? I don't mean to be unthankful or anything, nor saying that I don't believe in your words, but you know, the internets is full of "lessons" by some guy who talks for 5 minutes and then plays a crappy example (seen them quite a lot here on SSO too actually). More convincing would be a punch-in-the-face kind of introduction followed by an explanation. What I'm trying to say here I guess is that it would be nice to see a some sort of introduction to totally nail this and make the lesson perfect and ace
> 
> Anyways, thanks again!



I know what you're saying is more than merely "prove it" (which I'm sure he will when he gets the gear), but personally, I'm not really concerned if he's a virtuoso-level player or not and I don't think it would make a difference with regard to his credibility. Most of the guide is solid theoretical stuff about the kinetics of playing and the most efficient ways to practice--things that most players don't really consider, yet the majority of the ideas espoused are self-evidently true. At least, that's what the positive response would seem to indicate to me thus far.

To stray a little bit from the topic, a lot of technical virtuosos (including some YouTube bedroom shred gods, no doubt) are the last people you want to emulate in terms of technique or practice philosophy. Shawn Lane, for example, never started out playing slow. He started out playing as quickly as possible (sloppily), rather than focusing on playing cleanly before speeding up. Because of the amount of time he spent (and also because he was most likely a fast-twitch freak of nature), he was able to make his fast-and-sloppy practice routine work for him and after a three years of that became one of the greatest technicians of all time. He was a humble guy and didn't exactly suggest others take his approach over starting out playing slowly, but nonetheless, his practice routine probably wouldn't prove the path of least resistance for most mortals.

There are plenty of other examples. Petrucci's Rock Discipline is a great instructional video, but his style of tightly controlled tremolo picking when he plays his fastest licks is another example of his failing to take the path of least resistance when developing his technique. If you can play 6-8 hours a day, you can make his style work for you as well, but there are far easier ways to attain a similar level of mastery--something I know without being a master myself.


----------



## DrZoidberg (Jul 26, 2013)

Thanks! This is great! There goes my weekend.


----------



## 80H (Jul 29, 2013)

Updates? Anyone doing noticeably better? Questions? Anything unclear? Can't get better without any feedback!


----------



## JustMac (Jul 30, 2013)

Seriously cannot believe I missed this. This is absolutely phenomenal stuff, better than I even imagined. Smashing work 80H, if I could I would shake your hand right now, I would probably break your arm!  It's the sweep-picking guide to end all others! Perfectly laid out and constructed, you really do take it back to basics without coming across as condescending or patronizing, I think there's something in here for everyone, whether it's those taking their first baby steps into 2 and 3 string sweeps, or 7/8 sweep veterans. I personally think I've benefited from your analysis and breakdown on the fundamentals, particularly on the hand movement, something which I've (until now) just let happen naturally, and never really pondered about. You clearly spent some good hours on this, and boy has it paid off! Really appreciate the killer work man. Honestly, it's complete sin if the mods don't sticky this. Stellar work


----------



## 80H (Jul 30, 2013)

Thanks! Always good to hear someone liked it. Like hell if I did all that extra work for the ambient whistling of crickets. 

I want to release a follow-up edition eventually. There's probably another 10-20 different subsections that I would add after this, but I want videos before I do anything else. Relying on other videos just isn't good enough for a long ass in-depth guide, you know? I can't yell at petrucci to slow down and elaborate on subtle details, so I guess I have to do it myself.


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Aug 4, 2013)

Been playing for nearly 8 years and got nowhere. Quickly glancing over this has given me the drive to improve. As soon as I get back from my holiday I will definitely go in depth with this. Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this. Sticky-worthy.


----------



## JustMac (Aug 6, 2013)

80, or anyone actually, do you know any songs with some great sweeping sections in them? I'm looking for something a bit different to the rudimentary straight-major/minor(and 7th's variations) stuff I've been playing recently, maybe some stuff that mixes sweeping with little runs in between or something? I absolutely hate neoclassical-shred wank stuff though, so no Michael Angelo Batio recommendations por favor


----------



## Wodashin (Aug 6, 2013)

First post here.

I've been playing for about 8 months now, and have progressed somewhat well over that time. Sweep picking has been tough for me, and I never made it past two string arpeggios. I would sometimes practice larger things, but they would always be sloppy, and most advice on the internet is "play it slow 1000 times and then you will magically be Yngwie" with no real specifics on how to practice. This guide had some real insight that actually tells you how to approach sweep picking, instead of that usual "do it slow, then fast! Good luck " stuff you find on YouTube.

In a few days, I went from being unable to cleanly play 3 string arpeggios, or even attempt 4 string or higher ones, to actually sweep picking up to four strings cleanly, at a decent speed. So, this really is a ton of help for making things click.


----------



## starslight (Aug 6, 2013)

JustMac said:


> 80, or anyone actually, do you know any songs with some great sweeping sections in them? I'm looking for something a bit different to the rudimentary straight-major/minor(and 7th's variations) stuff I've been playing recently, maybe some stuff that mixes sweeping with little runs in between or something? I absolutely hate neoclassical-shred wank stuff though, so no Michael Angelo Batio recommendations por favor


----------



## 80H (Aug 6, 2013)

starslight said:


>





Not linked for me but I dig these anyways 



Wodashin said:


> First post here.
> 
> I've been playing for about 8 months now, and have progressed somewhat well over that time. Sweep picking has been tough for me, and I never made it past two string arpeggios. I would sometimes practice larger things, but they would always be sloppy, and most advice on the internet is "play it slow 1000 times and then you will magically be Yngwie" with no real specifics on how to practice. This guide had some real insight that actually tells you how to approach sweep picking, instead of that usual "do it slow, then fast! Good luck " stuff you find on YouTube.
> 
> In a few days, I went from being unable to cleanly play 3 string arpeggios, or even attempt 4 string or higher ones, to actually sweep picking up to four strings cleanly, at a decent speed. So, this really is a ton of help for making things click.



Awesome to hear it's working for you. Most of those people that tell you "just go slow man" are regurgitating what they've heard and don't typically challenge their mind to understand and explain the events for themselves. If you're familiar with the phrase "the devil's in the details," you'll probably understand why there's so few (if *any*) musicians that have reached a level of virtuosity by doing things in a lazy/half-assed way. 

If you are already comfortable with sweeping intervals over 2 strings, just start combining the shapes you already know and duplicating them. You can easily branch out just by repeating the same intervals at higher strings. You're not going to be musically breathtaking or anything, but it's a great stepping stone. 



JustMac said:


> 80, or anyone actually, do you know any songs with some great sweeping sections in them? I'm looking for something a bit different to the rudimentary straight-major/minor(and 7th's variations) stuff I've been playing recently, maybe some stuff that mixes sweeping with little runs in between or something? I absolutely hate neoclassical-shred wank stuff though, so no Michael Angelo Batio recommendations por favor



2 listed above were great, and i always recommend malmsteen and petrucci for this stuff. Even if you don't particularly like their music, there's a lot to be learned just from watching, listening and processing what they're doing. 



TheDeathOfMusic said:


> Been playing for nearly 8 years and got nowhere. Quickly glancing over this has given me the drive to improve. As soon as I get back from my holiday I will definitely go in depth with this. Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this. Sticky-worthy.



Good luck  Just relax and let it simmer in your mind for a while - if it takes a few weeks/months for everything here to click it's ok. It's much better than taking a few years. 



I wanna make videoooooooooooooooooos


----------



## starslight (Aug 7, 2013)

Anyone who wants to jump into an Yngwie song, I can't recommend this lesson/transcription enough: Troy Grady - Guitarist

Presentation's a little unorthodox, but if you want to know exactly how Yngwie does what he does, it's all in there.


----------



## JustMac (Aug 7, 2013)

80H said:


> Not linked for me but I dig these anyways
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Petrucci in particular I love, it's weird, but his creative flow I think was at its peak in the 90's, I always thought the post '00 Dream Theater solo's, while ever-complex and technically excellent, didn't do it for me in the same way, say, Under a Glass Moon's did. Having said that, their actual songs are consistently amazing. He definitely used to have a bebop/hard bop vibe in his older stuff which was awesome though. I really hope I'm proven wrong on the next DT album though, can't wait! I prefer his sweeping style over Malmsteens personally though, isn't it mostly Harmonic Minor/Phrygian Dominant derived scales and arpeggios isn't it? Any specific song recommendations? Rising Force is a pretty nice record actually.


----------



## 80H (Aug 7, 2013)

starslight said:


> Anyone who wants to jump into an Yngwie song, I can't recommend this lesson/transcription enough: Troy Grady - Guitarist
> 
> Presentation's a little unorthodox, but if you want to know exactly how Yngwie does what he does, it's all in there.




Nice, never seen that. Love the way he breaks it down. Thanks! 



JustMac said:


> Petrucci in particular I love, it's weird, but his creative flow I think was at its peak in the 90's, I always thought the post '00 Dream Theater solo's, while ever-complex and technically excellent, didn't do it for me in the same way, say, Under a Glass Moon's did. Having said that, their actual songs are consistently amazing. He definitely used to have a bebop/hard bop vibe in his older stuff which was awesome though. I really hope I'm proven wrong on the next DT album though, can't wait! I prefer his sweeping style over Malmsteens personally though, isn't it mostly Harmonic Minor/Phrygian Dominant derived scales and arpeggios isn't it? Any specific song recommendations? Rising Force is a pretty nice record actually.




To me it seems more like Petrucci's taste has just changed over the years. One of the most important lessons I've ever been taught is that the only musician capable of making what you want to hear is you...so if you spend all that time trying to satisfy your musical longings through someone else, all you will ever find are little pieces of evidence towards what you _really_ want to hear instead. So when you hear Petrucci play and it no longer scratches the itch, it's really more of a sign that you personally are at a different place musically than where Petrucci is/was. Other than that, everything else is just for pleasure or the general enhancing effect that music has. 

Next release is so soon! Always fun to have a Dream Theater month. 


As for Yngwie...hahaha, it's so hard to recommend something specific of the guy's when there's so much of it. He sweeps all the time, but he's not always wehlulablalalalnenenananeeenananananeeenananeeblalalala all day with them like you'll find sometimes with people that just mindlessly sweep basic minor/major arpeggios over 5-6 strings all day because they know how to. He uses them really fluidly and in ways that are purely for the sake of the music, which is exactly what the point of all of this is anyways.


----------



## farren (Aug 7, 2013)

Obligatory Jason Becker - Altitudes recommendation.


----------



## JustMac (Aug 9, 2013)

^of course, Jason is god, immaculate sweeping technique too.Love Altitudes, such fantastic composition. 

I was wondering, because I've noticed my own ability is perhaps a little lacking in this, but do any guitarists employ a primarily-descending technique in their sweeps? Let me elaborate-Most songs with sweep sections I've heard begin on the ascending element of an arpeggio, and then descend another/the same pattern descending, a lot of the time at a slower pace than the ascending section. I realised yesterday I can't actually descend at even 50% of my ascending speed, and my hand freezes up a bit, so I've got to work on that part of my playing. 


But do any players out there employ a style of play where they first play a selection of descending notes at speed? I know it's a little odd sounding but hopefully you get my drift.


----------



## 80H (Aug 9, 2013)

Man, I know exactly what you mean. I think it's the aspect of gravity. Your hand can -fall- with the momentum of gravity, but there's no momentum pushing it up. Sometimes I make almost a circular motion out and away from the strings to add a little bit of momentum to my hand as it moves upward. Think of like a semi-circle from the lowest string to the highest string and then letting your hand move across that path to pick up the momentum. Other than that I just power through it.

Having a ~90 degree picking angle helps a lot too as there's less resistance against the pick, but it's not easy to achieve without picking a pick that's great in your hands. I use a 4.some mm diamond pointed from v-picks but im probably going to go to the 8mm to better compliment my 90 degree hold (i alternate as necessary)


----------



## 80H (Aug 20, 2013)

Just want to bump this with a huge thank you to the people that donated to Make-a-Wish or signed up for the free trial! I have no way of figuring out who you are but it's appreciated none the less!  I will turn your trial subscription into eggs and vegetables and caffeine like some kind of alchemist would. 



I want to do an advanced version of this guide, but I also want to do it the right way. It'll be awesome. I have massive plans for it, but I'm still a ways off of the initial investment cost. The good news is that once I have my recording setup, it's done and I can use it for damn near everything else until I decide to upgrade. 


If anyone knows someone at Peavey, PlanetWaves, a camera company and Reaper, send me a PM! I'd love to see if I can trade them exposure for products and get the ball rolling on this.


----------



## Webmaestro (Aug 20, 2013)

JustMac said:


> ^of course, Jason is god, immaculate sweeping technique too.Love Altitudes, such fantastic composition.
> 
> I was wondering, because I've noticed my own ability is perhaps a little lacking in this, but do any guitarists employ a primarily-descending technique in their sweeps? Let me elaborate-Most songs with sweep sections I've heard begin on the ascending element of an arpeggio, and then descend another/the same pattern descending, a lot of the time at a slower pace than the ascending section. I realised yesterday I can't actually descend at even 50% of my ascending speed, and my hand freezes up a bit, so I've got to work on that part of my playing.
> 
> ...



I think I know what you're asking. Basically, you're asking if anyone ever starts on the highest note of the arpeggio sequence vs. the lowest? If so, yes, I (and many others, I imagine) do this all the time. It just depends on how it fits into whatever I'm playing.

To the OP: kudos for a great write up. I'm not sure how I originally missed it but this is very useful and inspirational.


----------



## 80H (Aug 20, 2013)

80H said:


> Just want to bump this with a huge thank you to the people that donated to Make-a-Wish or signed up for the free trial! I have no way of figuring out who you are but it's appreciated none the less!  I will turn your trial subscription into eggs and vegetables and caffeine like some kind of alchemist would.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



^ want to make sure this post doesn't suffer from the "last post of the last page" curse 



Webmaestro said:


> I think I know what you're asking. Basically, you're asking if anyone ever starts on the highest note of the arpeggio sequence vs. the lowest? If so, yes, I (and many others, I imagine) do this all the time. It just depends on how it fits into whatever I'm playing.
> 
> To the OP: kudos for a great write up. I'm not sure how I originally missed it but this is very useful and inspirational.




Thanks, and yeah, I think a lot of people forget that the whole point of all this is music rather than technical approaches, because there are so many nuances to the technique itself that it's easy to get all brain-thinky with it.


----------



## TheDeathOfMusic (Sep 1, 2013)

In dire need of sticky


----------



## farren (Sep 6, 2013)

I wouldn't mind seeing that either.


----------



## Silence2-38554 (Sep 11, 2013)

I'll be going through that whole guide this next week. Can't wait!


----------



## Amaranthine Vitality (Sep 13, 2013)

Awesome guide! I've been using this for 2 days now and I'm already seeing improvements in my sweeping skills. It also might be worthwhile to mention paying attention to your sense of feeling in your hands while you play. (unless this has already been said) 

Also do you recommend integrating the metronome at any point? I feel like I've always been the guy to say 'oh just start slow on the metronome and speed it up gradually' yada yada. And I still do believe the metronome has it's application and should be used (in moderation), but it appears that as soon as I dropped the heavy metronome abuse I've been improving a lot more lol.


----------



## 80H (Sep 13, 2013)

Amaranthine Vitality said:


> Awesome guide! I've been using this for 2 days now and I'm already seeing improvements in my sweeping skills. It also might be worthwhile to mention paying attention to your sense of feeling in your hands while you play. (unless this has already been said)
> 
> Also do you recommend integrating the metronome at any point? I feel like I've always been the guy to say 'oh just start slow on the metronome and speed it up gradually' yada yada. And I still do believe the metronome has it's application and should be used (in moderation), but it appears that as soon as I dropped the heavy metronome abuse I've been improving a lot more lol.



As for the feeling, yeah - I play with my eyes closed once I have the technical movements of anything down. It helps me feel out where exactly I want my fingertips and really adds that nice polished feel that comes with knowing exactly how and what you're going to be playing. It's also much more fulfilling for me to hear music with my eyes closed. 

I --ONLY--(!!!!!) use a metronome for either drills, specific songs or subliminal training, and I'm happy with that. Using it more than that, to me at least, seems very much like an unnecessary and counterproductive way of learning more accurate timing. The human muscular and nervous systems do not work on based on perfectly rigid divisions of time. Muscle memory is developed through repetition, and the number of repetitions that it takes to reach fluidity will vary with the quality of thought/action/emotion/general focus while you're practicing. If I'm still fumbling with my fingers, I have much bigger priorities than to make sure I'm playing at precisely 155 bpm. From that perspective, a metronome is causing more harm than good and could be forgotten entirely until a more appropriate time.


----------



## Amaranthine Vitality (Sep 13, 2013)

^I'm going to try closing my eyes that sounds like a good idea! 

What's funny is that I've heard Tosin Abasi say that his practice is mostly metronome based, but I feel like the metronome helped me more in the beginning of my quest to clean up my slop playing because it helped me to just slow down and be patient instead of trying to learn 10 riffs in one day at top speed. Maybe Tosin just practices for like 12 hours a day so it doesn't matter lol or his brain just responds better to that type of practice and?
Anyways, thanks for the feedback. This should be stickied as others have already stated!


----------



## Idontpersonally (Sep 14, 2013)

New vid from David!


----------



## Merge (Sep 22, 2013)

Awesome guide!! I hope this helps me, lol.


----------



## 80H (Nov 14, 2013)

Looking for progress updates! Anyone notice any major improvements? Anyone (in hindsight) have any issues with the guide? 


Can't get better without feedback! Looking for anything from praise to constructive criticism to downright hatred, it's all welcome. Need to know how well this worked for people so that the stuff I produce in the future is even better. 


There are some amazing things to come in 2014 


As my own personal update, I have recently completed the milestone of having every triad and inversion down in every major key from every root note on the fretboard. If it's a triad that fits into the major scale, I can sweep it and combine it with other notes, intervals and triads while still playing it in my personal frankenstein of a style. There are many chord extensions in there too, but I can improvise those on the fly, so it isn't as worth it (to me) to practice them meticulously just yet. I have since moved into triads that fit harmonic minor, but I am also very busy with polishing my writing and reading skills while juggling work and a complete rewrite of a book that I finished 2 years ago. It's tons of work, but it doesn't even feel like it. I can't say for sure when it will be released, but it will be done. I also have a second book lined up for after that and a pretty sweet "movie" planned for fingerpicking. Still working towards a relocation, studio and video setup though. Thanks for reading


----------



## Deviliumrei (Dec 3, 2013)

Great great guide!

I have a question about the right hand. I heard somewhere that you should always rest your pick on the next string you are going to pick, right? (Did Petrucci talk about this?) Like you don't keep your pick "floating" between the strings as you are sweeping because this can lead to some minor timing problems. Do you guys know what I mean? Let's take the beginning of Cmaj arp string A 15 fret. I pick the C on 15f and next up is E on 14f on the D string. My pick is already resting on that D string even though my first note, C on A string, is still playing and this goes all the way through the arpeggio. This would be so easy to show on a video but I'm sure that you know what I'm trying to say, I just want to make sure.

Anyway my question is what if there are hammer ons or slides in the middle of the sweep arpeggio, does this technique still apply?

Here is an example. Obscura - Universe momentum
16 -note triplets

--------------------------------14h17h19--t22/t24/t22----------------
----------------------------15---------------------------and back up
-----------------11/14h16--------------------------------the same way
-------------12---------------------------------------------
------10h14------------------------------------------------
---12-------------------------------------------------------

What do you do with your right hand when there are hammer on s or slides? Do you leave it hanging in the air or rest your pick on the next string? I feel its a little bit hard to sync my left and right hand because my right hand is already "ahead" while my left hand is playing the hammer ons and slides.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 3, 2013)

My god that was thorough...


----------



## 80H (Dec 3, 2013)

Deviliumrei said:


> Great great guide!
> 
> I have a question about the right hand. I heard somewhere that you should always rest your pick on the next string you are going to pick, right? (Did Petrucci talk about this?) Like you don't keep your pick "floating" between the strings as you are sweeping because this can lead to some minor timing problems. Do you guys know what I mean? Let's take the beginning of Cmaj arp string A 15 fret. I pick the C on 15f and next up is E on 14f on the D string. My pick is already resting on that D string even though my first note, C on A string, is still playing and this goes all the way through the arpeggio. This would be so easy to show on a video but I'm sure that you know what I'm trying to say, I just want to make sure.
> 
> ...





I know exactly what you mean, and there's a couple of different ways to look at it. 

The first way is to divide up the idea. The sweep ends when the hammer starts. In the same way that your pick would be on standby if you were doing some repetitive hammer sequence, it doesn't really _have _to do anything, so there's that.

Ideally, you want it to be in the most opportunistic place when the hammer is over, so you can often use the hammer-on time to reposition your pick. This will be a different point for you than it is for me because we likely hold our guitars at slightly different positions and have different distances to work with when it comes to our anatomy. 

At higher tempos, this step is crucial because of how little time you have to make adjustments. Multitasking (hammering with the fret hand while moving with the right hand) becomes kind of a mandatory thing you gotta do. 




The next way to approach it would be to add a little bit of flare to your hand. While most people will usually describe this as "showy" or just for looks, if you move your pick say an inch or two up and do some kind of little wizardy hand gesture (for lack of a better word), you can add another layer of timing to what you're doing. 


The thing to realize is that once your hand has to come to a full stop when sweeping, it's over. The sweep is done. The sweep is a traveling point of momentum, and once you kill the momentum, you've gotta start over no matter what. The challenge at that point becomes to transition in and out of sweeps as smoothly as possible, because very rarely will you be able to express yourself musically with nothing but sweep runs. 



If you're having problems with your pick continuing to move because it's carrying too much momentum and it's hard for you to stop it for the hammer, that's when you want to kind of lift it off the string lightly (out and away) and use the wizardy approach I talked about earlier. 



Konfyouzd said:


> My god that was thorough...




Thanks! Gotta be thorough with this stuff, as I've learned...


----------



## Deviliumrei (Dec 4, 2013)

80H said:


> I know exactly what you mean, and there's a couple of different ways to look at it.
> 
> The first way is to divide up the idea. The sweep ends when the hammer starts. In the same way that your pick would be on standby if you were doing some repetitive hammer sequence, it doesn't really _have _to do anything, so there's that.
> 
> ...



Good that you pointed out that when my hand comes to a full stop the sweep is over. I have to try that "wizardy" thing you mentioned. Thanks for the reply, it helped alot.


----------



## West9220 (Dec 14, 2013)

Very well done, I've been having a large amount if difficulty learning to sweep (well) I hope this will help, it seems like it will, thank you for posting this


----------



## 80H (Dec 15, 2013)

West9220 said:


> Very well done, I've been having a large amount if difficulty learning to sweep (well) I hope this will help, it seems like it will, thank you for posting this



No problem, thanks for the compliment


----------



## Maniacal (Dec 15, 2013)

you gotta put some sweep videos up, sound like a monster player


----------



## 80H (Dec 15, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> you gotta put some sweep videos up, sound like a monster player




Thanks - vids are coming, but there's so much I've gotta deal with financially & in my personal life right now that I kind of just want to bitch slap the universe and sleep for a year. Every time I think I'm there, I get set back again. It's frustrating. This is my passion, so I'm still motivated, but that doesn't magically make all the bullsh!t disappear.


----------



## Maniacal (Dec 15, 2013)

But isn't it quite easy to just set up a camera phone and play for 5 minutes?


----------



## 80H (Dec 15, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> But isn't it quite easy to just set up a camera phone and play for 5 minutes?



iphone 3's didn't even take pictures when i got mine...lol

there's also the fact that I had to sell my amp  


It is a little more complicated than that my friend.


----------



## Maniacal (Dec 15, 2013)

Fair enough, hopefully one day!


----------



## metalmonster (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow ! I'm really humbled. This post is really a great read, there is a lot of stuff i now have to meditate upon. 

I really loved the "fingertip muting technique" : it's actually part of my way of muting strings. I'm definitely re-reading this tomorrow and taking some notes.



> but there's so much I've gotta deal with financially & in my personal life right now that I kind of just want to bitch slap the universe and sleep for a year. Every time I think I'm there, I get set back again. It's frustrating.


 i know what it is like. Still there, though it's a lot better now than it used to be in the last 3 years. 

Take it easy, and try to stay positive (really important, a positive attitude changes everything), and soon enough we both will be slowly forgetting the hardship we've been through. A great businessman (docstock founder in an university lecture) said once "there is no hardship. Only character-building experiences".


----------



## 80H (Jan 22, 2014)

80H said:


> iphone 3's didn't even take pictures when i got mine...lol
> 
> there's also the fact that I had to sell my amp
> 
> ...



send* not take pictures. pretty sure they always took pictures 




metalmonster said:


> Wow ! I'm really humbled. This post is really a great read, there is a lot of stuff i now have to meditate upon.
> 
> I really loved the "fingertip muting technique" : it's actually part of my way of muting strings. I'm definitely re-reading this tomorrow and taking some notes.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the words bro, totally agree with you. Hard to keep your chin up when you know you could have done better though, you know? Cut out a lot of garbage in this last week though and it's obviously paying off now...back to waking early, getting more work that makes $ done again. 


Definitely built some character though, that's for sure. What are you hanging in there for? Takes a pretty intense passion to tough it out through the nonsense for the sake of music, and I'm always curious to learn from other people that are also willing to bleed for this. My last real "job" was at a pizza place, which I quit because they wanted me to completely remove my well-groomed and definitely cleanest-in-the-store fingernails (1.5-2mm tops, cleaned religiously) and told me I would be suspended if I didn't clip them entirely. Told them I picked my guitar, clipped them, gave them my 2-week notice (would have royally f*cked my friends that worked there if I left that suddenly) and made my last check with them. 

Oddly enough, it's been almost 3 years since then also.


----------



## metalmonster (Jan 23, 2014)

> Thanks for the words bro, totally agree with you. Hard to keep your chin up when you know you could have done better though, you know? Cut out a lot of garbage in this last week though and it's obviously paying off now...back to waking early, getting more work that makes $ done again.
> 
> 
> Definitely built some character though, that's for sure. What are you hanging in there for? Takes a pretty intense passion to tough it out through the nonsense for the sake of music, and I'm always curious to learn from other people that are also willing to bleed for this. My last real "job" was at a pizza place, which I quit because they wanted me to completely remove my well-groomed and definitely cleanest-in-the-store fingernails (1.5-2mm tops, cleaned religiously) and told me I would be suspended if I didn't clip them entirely. Told them I picked my guitar, clipped them, gave them my 2-week notice (would have royally f*cked my friends that worked there if I left that suddenly) and made my last check with them.
> ...



I really can't explain my story in the details in public... PM right away.


----------



## octatoan (Jul 30, 2014)

This is just... amazing.


----------



## 80H (Jul 30, 2014)

Awesoham said:


> This is just... amazing.



(` - `)/ glad you liked it!


----------



## farren (May 12, 2016)

Nearly two years later, I think this thread deserves another exposure on the first page.


----------



## vansinn (May 12, 2016)

I had somehow missed this thread - such an amount of writing in the first post.
Wonder where [banned] 80H is..


----------



## 8_8-88-8_8_88_8_88_8_8-8_ (Jun 9, 2016)




----------



## Zeus1907 (Jun 9, 2016)

I just read this. 
Personally, it's a good read into the mental aspect of sweeping. It really tells you how to mentally aproach practicing the instrument. But I don't think it would really help some on with learning arpeggios. 
I'll give my opinion. (Again my OWN Opinion). 
When it comes down to form, and someone telling you what is right or wrong. I've had instructors tell me 'how' to pick. But one instructor told me, there's no right or wrong, there's just a more efficient way. 

The 6 fundamentals, 
Numbe 1 says some shapes are 'more difficult than others', talking about learning shapes. I disagree with this. 
Learn the triads, Maj, min, and dim. And literally EVERYTHING falls into shape. 

Number 3. I totally agree with. 
That you need to 'learn' physically first before you use a metronome. But I can not stress the importance of a metronome. 
It is THE most important tool when it comes to learning the instrument in a virtuosic fashion. 

OP posted hammer on and pull offs. I do not agree with this, I believe every note should be picked. i.e. A dominant 7 chord, every note should be picked, most players would hammer on the extension. 

And lastly, my biggest gripe about this post, I think it is a great disservice to all of you who have read this. The whole section about Barring. 
Barring is a no no. If you assign a finger to every note you will instantly play the arpeggio cleaner than if you were to roll your finger. For example a Maj 5 string arp. 

All in all good lesson on how to practice smart. But there are things that I have issues with. And I say this with the utmost respect to OP, he has many fans, and if it's helped even one person play better, then that's a testament to his method.


----------



## 8_8-88-8_8_88_8_88_8_8-8_ (Jun 10, 2016)

Zeus1907 said:


> I just read this.
> Personally, it's a good read into the mental aspect of sweeping. It really tells you how to mentally aproach practicing the instrument. But I don't think it would really help some on with learning arpeggios.
> I'll give my opinion. (Again my OWN Opinion).
> When it comes down to form, and someone telling you what is right or wrong. I've had instructors tell me 'how' to pick. But one instructor told me, there's no right or wrong, there's just a more efficient way.
> ...



As for your gripe with number 1 of the fundamentals. Would you say that playing a swept section that requires a diagonal transition into another diagonal transition that prevents you from having access to a thumb pivot, prior to a 3rd transition, is the same level of difficulty as sweeping a major 3rd or perfect 5th interval? You need to understand who this is catered to, it is a fundamental guide, and trying to compare complex/compound sweeps to arpeggios is missing the territory implied by the technique, as opposed to what is implied by music theory. I highly recommend you grab the Schillinger system of composition (I never finished it, it gets a bit thick for my theory knowledge), and pay close attention to what I believe is on the first or second page about composers "holding opinions/beliefs" and then using them to limit the broader scope of what is possible in music. This understanding can also be achieved through Bruce Lee's "Tao of the Jeet Kun Do," which is essentially that same message from a non-musical perspective. 

Thank you kindly for the respectful words - I highly recommend you reconsider your perspective on arpeggios, as arpeggios are not the endgame of sweep picking. The endgame of sweep picking is the fretboard + locomotion of the joints, rather than something held in music theory - it is physical before theoretical, the theory is just to explain the physical. 


As for your concern with a metronome, yes, a metronome is one of the most important tools you will ever use. That is the problem. It can be easier, and faster, to learn without one in the early stages. This is why I mentioned that. I used to force myself to use a metronome, and one day I turned it off and my results improved. This was at the recommendation of a local violinist that explained to me metronomes never used to exist, and yet grand technical players did. The two are not mutually exclusive, and there is benefit in both. 



As for hammers & pull offs, sigh, missing it. Sweep picking is not about arpeggios, again. It is purely technical until applied to a musical context. A hammer on just deviates from the rigid note formation of an arpeggio. Music is not arpeggios, it is melody and counterpoint and theme and variance and repetition and silence and expectation and a thousand other things. There is no reason to say "I will never hammer while sweeping." Ever. That is a silly limitation to place on the technique that does nothing but limit the total possible number of musical ideas that you can create. Again, arpeggios are not the endgame of sweep picking. Music is always what matters, and arpeggios are not all that exist within music. What happens if you consciously have the idea to hammer in the middle of a piece, because that's what YOU want to hear when you play? You hammer. Your nose is attached to your face, it's always there in the corner of your eye. Music is attached to your practice, it's always there in the corner of your mind. 


As for rolling, I don't roll much, but I can. If I ever need to use one finger to play two vertically adjacent notes, I can. I can also lift my index finger to achieve two vertically adjacent notes specifically because I watched a bunch of Shawn Lane videos. I encourage you to reread the very last sentence of the "So Who is This Guy?" section in the beginning. 

More importantly, I added rolling as a request of another user that was made in the thread where I asked if people wanted me to create this writeup, but that was 3 years ago, and many people reading this do not understand that there were weeks, requests and dozens of hours of work spent on this. This was just a guide written to rewire someone's fundamental approach to sweep picking, as most people never even learn how to accomplish the skill in the first place. I wanted to reach in their mind and rearrange some of the wires, and 3 years later, 8,900 unadvertised views later, I'd say I'm proud of my little baby


----------



## Zeus1907 (Jun 10, 2016)

I didn't realize you were OP. I agree with you, this has reached and helped a lot of people. That in itself is a testament to your method, and as I said, even if it helps a few people that is all that matters. 
I'd rather help one person than none at all. 

I still stand by my alternate picking instead of slurs. The method I was taught for arpeggios had an enphasis in alternate picking instead of slurs. Honestly I spent months alternate picking arps. Instead of sweeping them. I didn't learn the fundamentals of sweeping until I had all arpeggios down pat. 

I hope this helps. I'm not trying to say you are wrong, I'm just trying to add to your post, and the people on this forum can sort of Fankenstein all the info and make it their own.


----------

