# Alternate or Economy Picking?



## neon_black88 (May 23, 2008)

Which one do you use and which do you find lets you play faster?

Sound wise I like Alternate for Metal/Rock type licks and solos. I find economy picking to be most suited to Jazz Fusiony solo's ala Frank Gambale/Bret Garsed, for when you want that Horn like sound.

The wierd thing is I started economy picking one day, it just happened naturally, and It felt really good and I was playing as fast as I could alternate pick without even practicing it for 5 minutes. I didn't even realise that style of picking had a name or that people used it and labeled it as a technique that could be as good or better than Alternate. 

It kinda makes me want to practice it to see if I get fast with it, because my left hand is way ahead of my right at the moment, I can play perfectly even, tight, fast legato runs, but I can't pick the same stuff anywhere near as fast. I like a mix between picking and legato for shredding, like Paul Gilbert and Jeff Loomis, but theres always something you want to totally alternate pick. 

I don't know if theres something wrong with my picking thats holding me back, I dont think there is technique wise, alternate picking is just so fucking slow to improve.

For those who dont know, alternate is where you pick every note
D U D U D U x1000. Like this:

-----------------------------------------------
-----------------7-9-10------------------------
---------7-9-10--------------------------------
-7-8-10----------------------------------------
d u d u d u d u d

Economy is when you down pick twice when going up a string, or up pick twice when your going down the string like this:

-----------------------------------------------
----------------7-9-10------------------------
---------7-9-10-------------------------------
-7-8-10----------------------------------------
d u d d u d d u d


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## jaxadam (May 23, 2008)

I use both in different situations. I used to strictly economy pick three note per string stuff, but now I don't really know what my hands are doing anymore, they kind of just do a cross between alternate picking and economy picking now.

I think learning economy picking definitely helped me "develop" into a faster player, but I think sometimes my alt. picking stuff sounds faster.


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## Uber Mega (May 23, 2008)

You'd ideally want to be using either one depending on different feels and sounds you want to get, as each technique sounds and flows differently. Master both of the and you'll be away!


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## Reece Fullwood (May 23, 2008)

Both, Whenever you can


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## auxioluck (May 23, 2008)

I actually prefer alternate picking. It keeps my chops much more consistent, even if I play less. This is of course personal experience, but i find economy picking to be very awkward. I alternate pick every economy picking exercise I've ever learned .


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## Maniacal (May 23, 2008)

I rarely use economy picking. 

Alternate picking has so many more uses so I just work on that a lot. 

If I want a smooth tone I try and play as legato as possible so hardly pick at all. 

Economy has no real use in my playing style. 


Alternate picking is far quicker than economy for me, obviously sweep picking is even faster. 

Jon


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## Sindwulf (May 23, 2008)

Alternate is the "way" I guess, atleast that's what some of my friends were taught in their lessons. I naturally developed the economy mostly because I never used a rigid regiment of drills and stuff for myself to practice. 

It's probably good to be able to do both and economy is definitely the easiest to use in most situations.


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## -Nolly- (May 23, 2008)

Economy pickers scare me


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## MattyCakes (May 23, 2008)

all i do is alternate. i feel the rhythm more so that way.


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## Michael (May 23, 2008)

Alternate picking. But only 'cause I've never really taken the time work on economy picking.


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## Gilbucci (May 24, 2008)

Alternate picking for sure, but I think Alt. Picking combined with Legato is probably the best approach to playing faster lines.


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## MF_Kitten (May 24, 2008)

ok, so i´ve never heard of economy picking before... pleas asplain to meh!?


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## MrJack (May 24, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> ok, so i´ve never heard of economy picking before... pleas asplain to meh!?



Basically it's just picking the strings in the most efficient way. You remove the unnecessary movement that occurs in some situations when you use alternate picking.

For example, you could be playing 3 note per string licks. So your picking sequence would be this if you use alternate picking:
String 1 Down up down
String 2 Up down up
String 3 Down up down

Now how could you make this more efficient? Well, you could play it like this:
String 1 Down up down
String 2 Down up down
String 3 Down up down

This way the picking flows in a different way, some find it more natural to use this technique, some can't get a hang of it or don't want to use it and some mix alternate and economy picking together. I'm one of those who mix 'em together, I mostly use economy when going from say the high E string to the B string and starting with an upstroke without realizing it at first.

I hope you understood what I was trying to get to.


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## Anthony (May 25, 2008)

I used to be stictly economy last year, but I'm mainly Alt now. I only use economy when I'm playing a really fast lick, that is slightly beyond my playing reach.


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## Prada3353 (May 25, 2008)

learn both ways, it will benefit you later down the road

but for me, i use all kinds of stuff, depending on what i'm doing, some chugging rythem kind of stuff i'll use all down strokes, because i might like the way it sounds with that riff, or sometimes i might be doing really fast stop and go style palm muting stuff, and i'll use alternate

i usually mix alternate and economy with solos, depending on the situation

both are useful styles of picking, mainly alternate though, but as i said, learn both, and get them down well, you'll thank yourself for it later


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## drmosh (May 26, 2008)

Why should they be mutually exclusive?
You use whatever technique sounds right for the riff or lick you want to play. The techniques sound totally different, and should be used as such


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 26, 2008)

A mix of alternate and economy.


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## Metal Ken (May 26, 2008)

I've been trying to break my economy picking habits and learn straight alternate picking.


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## drmosh (May 26, 2008)

Metal Ken said:


> I've been trying to break my economy picking habits and learn straight alternate picking.



That, imo, is much harder than learning to add some economy stuff to a solid alternate picking base.
I am glad I had my alternate picking down when I learned about economy picking.


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## neon_black88 (May 26, 2008)

drmosh said:


> Why should they be mutually exclusive?
> You use whatever technique sounds right for the riff or lick you want to play. The techniques sound totally different, and should be used as such



I'm not saying that I'm just asking what people prefer. There are people who strictly alternate pick and some that strickly economy pick.

And yeah I'd say having a good alternate picking base is a VERY good idea before trying economy picking.

Another thing i've been doing alot of lately is outside picking, I love it. I try and always start with an upstroke when it means most of the changing strings will be outside picking. And things like this are made so much easier and tighter when starting with an upstroke (from paul gilbert)

-5---------------5------------------------------
---8p7p5--5h7h8--8p7p5--5h7h8-----------------
---------7--------------7------------------------

So up stroke on the 5 on the high E, down on the 8 on the B, then down again on the 7 on the G, up on the 5 on B, the up again on the fret 5 high E.

Im loving this picking pattern. Whenever I have the choice of Inside or Outside picking now, I always pick outside, even If it means starting on an Upstroke.


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## drmosh (May 26, 2008)

Thankfully I've gotten used to automatically start on an upstroke on certain passages.
Petrucci has a good exercise for that on his rock discipline DVD.


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## Trespass (May 26, 2008)

I pick a lot of scalar passages based mainly on flamenco groups of notes (usually very tight) and its mainly all alternate picked very hard and defined to emulate the sound of nails on acoustic (very defined). I love trilling when soloing, and random legato, but I never economy.


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## DDDorian (May 27, 2008)

Ultimately you want to have a handle on both, so that the way you play is dictated by choice and not by necessity. Personally, I'm much more of an economy picker than an alternate picker, a situation exacerbated by the fact that I haven't played with any real amount of gain in close to eighteen months. My metal chops are absolutely woeful at the moment, I don't look forward to the months I'm gonna have to spend in the woodshed to bring them back.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 27, 2008)

When I first learned guitar, I started economy picking. When I learned alternate picking my speed went through the roof  Theoretically, it should be faster, but I just like the consistency and the sound of alternate picking.


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## neon_black88 (May 27, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> When I first learned guitar, I started economy picking. When I learned alternate picking my speed went through the roof  Theoretically, it should be faster, but I just like the consistency and the sound of alternate picking.



Well im not trying to sound like an arse but thats why I think you should have a solid alternate picking base before trying economy. Because when you new you do it because it seems easier, but I think economy requires more skill to keep the timing and flow right at first, and it only becomes easier later when you have it down, rather than alternate which pretty much forces you to play tightly and consistantly.

Mabye a load of shit but do you see what i'm getting at? I have a hard time explaining myself 

On a side note I just found out Jeff Loomis is an Economy picker, an interesting development


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 27, 2008)

Well, I don't think it's so much the fact that economy picking is harder, it's just personal preference and if you put the time into learning it. I wasn't off time or anything with my economy picking, I just happen to think alternate is more my style, and probably works for the riffs I play better. My down picking is also absolute shit, and that's how most people start off, is learning all these riffs just using down picking.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 28, 2008)

^ same here. I TERRIBLE if I try to play something fast-ish all downpicked.


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## Gilbucci (May 28, 2008)

My gallop picking and down picking freakin' SUCK. I remember trying to play 'Travel in Stygian' and just saying ''yeah...no...''


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## neon_black88 (May 28, 2008)

> My gallop picking and down picking freakin' SUCK. I remember trying to play 'Travel in Stygian' and just saying ''yeah...no...''



It's wierd for me, or mabye it happens to everyone. But I can gallop in 16ths pretty fast, but I cant down pick at the same tempo doing 8ths. 

So say I could gallop at 200, like xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx. I can do that pretty easily and with not that much effort. If I try to down pick at 200 in eighths, just like x x x x x x x, I cannot not even come close to doing it. 

I really need to work on my down picking actually, its pretty terrible. I down pick most moderately fast riffs, but anything too fast and I just fail. I still can't do master of puppets down picked, but I can play necrophagist songs


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## MF_Kitten (May 28, 2008)

MrJack said:


> Basically it's just picking the strings in the most efficient way. You remove the unnecessary movement that occurs in some situations when you use alternate picking.
> 
> For example, you could be playing 3 note per string licks. So your picking sequence would be this if you use alternate picking:
> String 1 Down up down
> ...



ah, that makes sense! i can´t play for shit, but when i try to play stuff that requires bouncing from string to string, i do that 

i really gotta work on my chops... since i don´t have any


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## Autofate (Jun 10, 2008)

I find that when I play anything decending, I tend to economy pick and when acending I use all alternate, Ive been trying to break myself of this, but I CANNOT get down outside the string picking on decending runs as fast as when acending, same motion, I know, but something with the angle of the dangle just keeps me from doing it


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## The Atomic Ass (Jun 10, 2008)

Strict alternate seems so alien to me, especially in 3nps-type licks. I've always economy-picked those, and I don't really dedicate a lot of time towards strict alternate picking. 

But then I suck, so take that with a grain of salt.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Jun 17, 2008)

I economy pick pretty much everything... just came naturally to me.


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## Drew (Jun 17, 2008)

Theoretically, economy picking is faster. 

But, think about it. Basically, economy picking and alternate picking are the same until you cross strings. when you do, for alternate picking you preserve your rhythmic down-up-down-up picking rhythm, whereas for economy you simply hit two notes with the same pickstroke. 

So, economy picking is faster when (and ONLY when) you are changing strings. 

...but alternate picking has the same rhythmic drive throughout, and the strict up-down rhythm forces your pick to follow the same rhythm. 

So, logically, it then follows that economy picking is faster because your picking is more UN-even than alternate; it's the same along a single string, but you're changing from one string to another faster than you are from one upstroke to a downstroke on the same string. 

I used to be a pretty big economy picker, but a guy I was studying with in college finally convinced me to start practicing alternate picking again "because, why not? What do you have to lose?" He didn't try to talk me out of it, he just asked me to give alternate another shot and see what I thought. 

I came around in a BIG way within weeks. It took me a long time to break the habit, but I very quickly realized that while economy was faster, alternate was more rhythmically precise, and if you're looking to play in a rhythmically precise manner (as I do whenever I am picking) then you really want to be alternate picking. 

For loose flowing stuff I still have my legato technique. For picked runs, alternate makes more sense.


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## YYZ2112 (Jun 17, 2008)

I do both actually. I have so many bad habits with my picking that I have to rely on hammering/snapping quick runs. It's definitely something that has been holding me back for a long time.


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## WillingWell (Jun 17, 2008)

I started practicing economy picking after I discovered Shane Gibson and the crazyness that is his music. That dude is a beast at sweeping and economy picking. Jeff Loomis uses economy picking a lot too. I would say both of those guys are very rhythmically precise.

Thanks for inspiring me, Shane. You're awesome.


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## JBroll (Jun 17, 2008)

I used to use it a lot but I rarely do now - I like the smoothness of legato and the machine-gun attack from alternate picking (I can get much more power out of alternate than economy, for simple physical reasons - I'm a bit heavy on the picking side) and since I'm good enough at them I haven't felt like I needed to use economy.

Jeff


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## dream-thief (Jun 18, 2008)

I've only ever used strict alternate picking. I got into playing a lot of 3nps stuff really fast, and riffs which used a solid picking technique before the thought of economy picking even crossed my mind, and In all honesty I have no intention of changing the way I play, It works good enough for me


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 18, 2008)

Picking is a matter of mindset. I'm not a very methodical person, so my hand goes with whatever feels comfortable. I use alternate picking as a standard, but deviate a lot, throwing consecutive strokes in when I feel like it. I also use my middle finger to pop notes to create timbral interest, and tend toward upstrokes. I like the organic sound that I get from mixing it up, which I think is much better than having great technique. Your end result, after all, should be your sound.


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## Scali (Jun 19, 2008)

I used to play mostly legato, in the style of Joe Satriani. So my picking was really underdeveloped for years. At one point I was looking to join a band, and I had some practice sessions with the other guitarist in that band. He was a pretty wild player, who would use fast picked runs and sweeps a lot.

He inspired me to pick every note, so I started practicing and finally getting my picking together. But somehow I naturally progressed towards economy picking for 3nps runs. For 4nps pseudochromatic stuff and such, I used alternate picking, because economy doesn't make sense there.
I still can't play 3nps runs with strictly alternate picking very well. Never bothered to really try. Perhaps I should, because it sounds more 'aggressive', and that is one area that my playing is certainly lacking.


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## Celiak (Jun 19, 2008)

I never put much thought into it but I actually economy pick a lot more than I alternate pick.

I'm trying alternate now and it seems really awkward to me for three notes a string runs.


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