# Steinberger GM Thread!



## CrossingTheEventHorizon

I'm decently new to this forum but I don't think there's an official Steinberger GM thread and I thought that needed to change! Post picks of your gm4's and gm7's and any other gm series Steinberger here! I don't have one yet myself, but I'm in the market for a gm7ta  Also feel free to post pics/talk about any mods you've done to your steiny!


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## yingmin

I briefly owned a Newburgh GM4T, but sold it (at a substantial profit) because I didn't like the way it played, and decided the Transtrem wasn't practical for my use. I may have already deleted the pictures I took of it for eBay, but it doesn't really matter; if you've seen one Newburgh GM, you've seen them all. That's actually one of the things I didn't like about them, really, that they didn't have any individual character. I've since acquired a MusicYo GM7SA, which I absolutely love. It's actually a really awesome shade of purple, but in all the pictures, it just looks blue. Maybe I'll try taking a picture in natural light some other time, because it really does look great. 

As far as mods, the original owner removed the Haz Labs active EQ (technically making this no longer an "A" model) and installed a Roland GK-3 internal kit. The tone pot was switched to be the synth volume (might change that to neck pickup volume or something, because I don't really need synth volume on my guitar), and two additional switches were installed for GK/mag/blend switching and preset changing for the synth. It still has the original coil tap switch, which I'll probably wire to just the neck pickup instead of both humbuckers. The bridge pickup was also switched from an EMG to a Seymour Duncan JB.

For mods that I'm going to do with it, I'm replacing all the pickups with a Crunch Lab, Liquifire and Lace Sensor light blue. I was thinking about putting a Sustainer in the neck and going with a Tone Zone S or something next to it, but probably won't go for it, after all.












Paging Be_eM to this thread.


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## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Paging Be_eM to this thread.



I'm right here

Not sure if I really should clutter this forum with all my pics but since this is an official GM thread and the authorities asked for it, here we go.






























That's it for the GMs. Some more details about the guitars here.

Bernd


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## Variant

Bernd wins at life.


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## avenger

Nice collection!

I have been lsuting for one of these for a few months now but didnt like the trem idea. I see the last two you posted look like they dont have those crazy down and up tuning trems but more a hardtailish bridge.

Which models are those? Me want!


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## Be_eM

avenger said:


> I see the last two you posted look like they dont have those crazy down and up tuning trems but more a hardtailish bridge.
> 
> Which models are those? Me want!




Actually there are three with a hardtail (the white one above the last two, which also has piezo saddles). I've used the JCustom fixed bridge and my shim on them. The bodies are all routed for the T- or S-Trem, and the fixed bridge directly replaces those. It's also possible to mount it on a guitar routed for an R-Trem.

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Oh mannn Bernd, That gm7 with the quilt top is gorgeoussss! You have quite an amazing collection. I an desperately searching to find a gm7ta from the musicyo days with a flamed or quilted maple top mmm. The day steinberger starts remaking the gm7 but as a 7 string... life will be complete! haha


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## JamesM

My GOD, do want. What's funny is I've not even seen one of these, Craigslist or in real life.


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## brett8388

Here is my lone remaining Steinberger. I've owned a bunch - great guitars.






Brett


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## GiantBaba

Is that Neal Schon's old one that's been on ebay recently?


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## Be_eM

brett8388 said:


> Here is my lone remaining Steinberger. I've owned a bunch - great guitars.



Wow, congratulations. A very rare one a keeper, me thinks 

Bernd


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## yingmin

Steinberger M body guitar -scalloped fretboard Newburgh | eBay

Is this a GR? I don't think the Ms ever had R-trems, and it doesn't look like there's a battery compartment, suggesting that the EMGs are aftermarket.


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

yingmin said:


> Steinberger M body guitar -scalloped fretboard Newburgh | eBay
> 
> Is this a GR? I don't think the Ms ever had R-trems, and it doesn't look like there's a battery compartment, suggesting that the EMGs are aftermarket.



hmm could be something Ed Roman put together.


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## yingmin

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> hmm could be something Ed Roman put together.



Possibly, but I'm pretty sure it's not a Newburgh body. It's either a FrankenSteinberger, or a stock GR, and in either event, $2500 is an extremely optimistic price for a guitar with those specs in that condition.


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## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Is this a GR? I don't think the Ms ever had R-trems, and it doesn't look like there's a battery compartment, suggesting that the EMGs are aftermarket.




Yes, it is. It's a Newburgh model and should have the binding, if it was a GM. The trem route is the second indicator. However, the battery compartment is not, since this was first introduced with the MY models. "Old style" Steinies don't have a separate battery compartment.

Bernd


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> hmm could be something Ed Roman put together.




I guess not in this case. Just an "upgraded" (EMG) and then destroyed (scalloped) GR.

Bernd


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## yingmin

Be_eM said:


> Yes, it is. It's a Newburgh model and should have the binding, if it was a GM. The trem route is the second indicator. However, the battery compartment is not, since this was first introduced with the MY models. "Old style" Steinies don't have a separate battery compartment.
> 
> Bernd



Hmm. I thought I remembered my Newburgh GM having a battery compartment, but I only had it a couple weeks and didn't spend a lot of time with it, so I could be mistaken.


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## Justin Bailey

This thread is just gonna depress me until I can post something of my own


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## BucketheadRules

Thanks for the massive GAS guys.

'tis a horrible, horrible disease to have.


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Justin Bailey said:


> This thread is just gonna depress me until I can post something of my own



haha I feel the same way man! I am desperately searching for a steinberger gm7ta! Doesss wannnttt


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## Customisbetter

Are ZTs allowed? Prolly not because they suck.


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## yingmin

Customisbetter said:


> Are ZTs allowed? Prolly not because they suck.



What sucks about them? I've never played one, but if I hadn't found such a great deal on my GM, I might have picked one up at some point.


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## Be_eM

Customisbetter said:


> Prolly not because they suck.




Nope, they don't. But they don't fit under the "GM" title. This forum should be big enough for a GL, GS, GP, ZT3, Synapse, Whatever thread 

Bernd


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## OwenD

yingmin said:


> Hmm. I thought I remembered my Newburgh GM having a battery compartment, but I only had it a couple weeks and didn't spend a lot of time with it, so I could be mistaken.



That would have been a re-issue Newburgh, a Musicyo era, made by Gibson.


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## OwenD

Be_eM said:


>



I want this one!! Someday...


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## Be_eM

OwenD said:


> That would have been a re-issue Newburgh, a Musicyo era, made by Gibson.



Yes, you are correct, there was a Newburgh style body with a battery compartment. However, yingmin's old GM was a real Newburgh GM-4T, and you may verify this in his own thread, which also includes a photo of the back without a battery compartment 

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

I really want a gm7, but as they seem rather difficult to come across (I'm decently picky and want a musicyo gm7ta with a flamed or quilted maple top) I'm really considering this steinberger gr from the musicyo days that just came on ebay. For those of you with experience of different steinbergers, how do you feel about the gr? I know the bridge isn't as good as a transtrem or an s series but is it that bad? Also, If I bought an s or transtrem bridge would it fit or would I have to reroute it? thanks 

Steinberger Electric Guitar - USA Made | eBay


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> I really want a gm7, but as they seem rather difficult to come across (I'm decently picky and want a musicyo gm7ta with a flamed or quilted maple top) I'm really considering this steinberger gr from the musicyo days that just came on ebay.



Your link doesn't work, but I guess you're talking about this one. Correct?

I'm not 100% sure what you really want. The GR has a "-4" configuration (HSS). If you consider getting this, why not a GM-4 instead? Modding a -4 to a -7 configuration is possible, but certainly not a great idea.




CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> For those of you with experience of different steinbergers, how do you feel about the gr? I know the bridge isn't as good as a transtrem or an s series but is it that bad? Also, If I bought an s or transtrem bridge would it fit or would I have to reroute it?



No, you can't put a TT/ST into an R-Trem routing. And the other way around is something that will ensure you an "E.R. Fan" brand mark 
The R-Trem is a valid alternative to FR systems, but I wouldn't compare it to the T-/S-Trem. Different worlds.

I wouldn't make any compromise, even if the GR linked above looks quite nice. If you want a GM-7, wait for a GM-7. I once was in the same position as you, I've been searching for my first GM-7 for about two or three years. Time will come 

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Be_eM said:


> Your link doesn't work, but I guess you're talking about this one. Correct?
> 
> I'm not 100% sure what you really want. The GR has a "-4" configuration (HSS). If you consider getting this, why not a GM-4 instead? Modding a -4 to a -7 configuration is possible, but certainly not a great idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't put a TT/ST into an R-Trem routing. And the other way around is something that will ensure you an "E.R. Fan" brand mark
> The R-Trem is a valid alternative to FR systems, but I wouldn't compare it to the T-/S-Trem. Different worlds.
> 
> I wouldn't make any compromise, even if the GR linked above looks quite nice. If you want a GM-7, wait for a GM-7. I once was in the same position as you, I've been searching for my first GM-7 for about two or three years. Time will come
> 
> Bernd



First of all.. Don't you have 3 gm7s (so jealous)? and secondly yes that was in fact the gr i was talking about. but I'm SO pissed it said it had 6 days left on it but when I woke up this morning it said it ended and sold for $650?!? how did this happen? Everytime I find a guitar I want on ebay somehow the auction ends early and the price is cheap as hell!


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> First of all.. Don't you have 3 gm7s (so jealous)?



Yes. One of them completely built from parts. This is an option for anybody else, too.



CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Everytime I find a guitar I want on ebay somehow the auction ends early and the price is cheap as hell!



Well, fortune gives you the chance to save some more money, so you won't have to buy it cheap 

If you want a Steinie, be prepared to - possibly - pay more than you'd expect now. There are rare chances to get them for cheap, but if you want those, better don't go to bed. And if they are cheap, chance is they are somehow ruined. A good, cheap Steinie is a rare jackpot.

I've always bought my Steinies with the "buy it now" button. Sometimes for a price somebody in USA wouldn't pay. Now, some years later, I really don't miss any cent of that money, but I'm still happy with my guitars. They're worth it, they are special, and who cares what I once had to pay. So my suggestion would be: save enough money to buy YOUR Steinie when it appears. You'll recognize it 

Bernd


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## B-lebs

here's my GM4S. Music-yo era, and well loved in the time that I've had it.


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Be_eM said:


> So my suggestion would be: save enough money to buy YOUR Steinie when it appears. You'll recognize it
> 
> Bernd



oh I've seen her in my dreams! Here's a pic of her.. can't wait to meet/find her in real life!


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> oh I've seen her in my dreams! Here's a pic of her.. can't wait to meet/find her in real life!




A beauty worth waiting for. Good luck 

Bernd


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## Swarth

I need to get strings bad for mine, but here's a shot I just taken of my rarely played GM4S:


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## Justin Bailey

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> haha I feel the same way man! I am desperately searching for a steinberger gm7ta! Doesss wannnttt



Same here man, I also wanted the exact same thing, a music yo era gm7ta, blue quilt. I'd kill for one of those, but I'd also kill for a gm1ta, or gm5ta. These days though, I almost don't care, I just want a gm with a trans trem and I'd be happy, provided it was black or some quilt top trans finish.


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## Be_eM

Justin Bailey said:


> I'd kill for one of those, but I'd also kill for a gm1ta, or gm5ta. These days though, I almost don't care, I just want a gm with a trans trem




I remember I saw your first posting about getting a GM-xT in about 2008 or 2009, is that correct? I somehow feel the urge to ask some questions

First, any GM, no matter if TT or ST equipped, is a premium guitar. These usually go for premium prices. You are ready to do evil things to get one ("I'd kill"), but on the other hand, you want your GM for cheap. I remember you've been talking about a maximum of $1,500. I've paid $2,300 for my first MY GM-7TA, plus shipping to Europe, plus taxes. Makes about the same amount in Euro in the end. Convert this back to US$, if you want. Does anybody ask me today what I've paid for it? No. Do I care what I've paid once? No. For me, the guitar is still worth every single cent, whenever I pick it up to play it.

I've paid the same for the "curly redwood" prototype. And I've probably "overpaid" a number of other guitars, too. Over the time, I've got some compensation by getting some other GMs for much less, but these were just lucky moments, not the rule. I bought quite a couple of Steinies during all the years you also were waiting for a GM. So how is this possible? Well, either my ebay has more Steinies than your ebay, or your problem is the precondition "I want a premium guitar for cheap". So what can you do?

I'd start with the TT. This alone makes almost $800 - $1,000 of the value of a GM. Why do you want a TT? Is it really the transposing feature that's important to you? Get a ZT3, it costs much less. Is it the myth, the coolness factor of this trem you never had a chance to try out? Chance is, you might be disappointed. Not everybody needs this, as you can see from Yingmin's postings.

If you want a GM, consider getting one with an S-Trem (but not a GR). It might fit your budget better. It has exactly the same look, feel and sound, it's a full featured premium Steinie, for less money. Play it, feel it, love it. And if you're still sure some years later that you need the TT, get one from ebay afterwards. It's a drop-in replacement for the S-Trem, which you can sell afterwards. 

Think about it. Maybe it stops your suffering, and a GM-xS is as cool and lovable as a GM-xT. Maybe this is the difference between actually getting one and hoping to get one. Some day, in the distant future 

Bernd


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## B-lebs

Bernd, how does the TT3 compare to older models of the trans-trem?


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## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> Bernd, how does the TT3 compare to older models of the trans-trem?



It transposes well and does everything it promises. Being used to the old TTs, I'm sometimes struggling with the new locking mechanism, because you get no visible feedback if you've locked in the right position. This is not so much of a problem as long as the guitar is set up well and in tune, because the trem locks automatically in the "E" position (without force applied). No longer true if you break a string, then you'll have to find the right position first. This was easier on the old ones.

Bernd


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## BuckarooBanzai

I'm gonna threadjack with my pseudo-GR series:










Basically the first real guitar I bought was the last run of M-series body guitars made - the Korean wood-neck "GU Deluxe" off of MusicYo. I received it and rolled in the satisfaction of waiting 9 months to get the very last production run of this guitar, then set to upgrading it. I had to sand the body down near the trem since they screwed the routing up slightly and the trem wouldn't return properly. Then I replaced the EMG Selects with an 81-85 set plus a single-coil pickup cover and swapped out the wood neck for a Moses Graphite blend one. Bridge is the stock R-trem... a great trem if I do say so myself. Knife edges still fresh after three or four years.

Overall it's a bastard Steinberger but I scored everything on the cheap and it's all mine. I'm gonna swap some Lawrence L-500s in there once I get them.

I'm planning on building one that has the JCustom fixed bridge... I'm thinking natural finish and a maple body/walnut top plus the aforementioned L-500s. Unfortunately this'll cost like $800 and I'm poor at the moment so it may not happen


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## Be_eM

Mo Jiggity said:


> I'm gonna threadjack with my pseudo-GR series:
> 
> Overall it's a bastard Steinberger but I scored everything on the cheap and it's all mine.




Many ways can lead to your own personal Steinie. And it's all about the way it feels when playing 



Mo Jiggity said:


> I'm planning on building one that has the JCustom fixed bridge... I'm thinking natural finish and a maple body/walnut top plus the aforementioned L-500s. Unfortunately this'll cost like $800 and I'm poor at the moment so it may not happen



Sounds like a beautiful guitar, once it's finished. Good luck, I hope you'll get it finished once the "moment" is over 

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Swarth said:


> I need to get strings bad for mine, but here's a shot I just taken of my rarely played GM4S:



If that gorgeous steinberger is being neglected and you want some more money in your pocket please let me know  I'd be happy to take it off your hands. (I'm completely serious)


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## Swarth

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> If that gorgeous steinberger is being neglected and you want some more money in your pocket please let me know  I'd be happy to take it off your hands. (I'm completely serious)



I don't think I could ever part away from it Joe. It's a great guitar.


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Swarth said:


> I don't think I could ever part away from it Joe. It's a great guitar.



Quite understandable, enjoy it sir! 

haha! I just saw we are both from richmond, va! First of all where did you find that incredible steiny. secondly, do you play in any bands around here or anything?


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## Variant

brett8388 said:


> Here is my lone remaining Steinberger. I've owned a bunch - great guitars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brett



 I want a TracTuner bridge _*SOOOOOOOOO...*_ bad.


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## Swarth

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Quite understandable, enjoy it sir!
> 
> haha! I just saw we are both from richmond, va! First of all where did you find that incredible steiny. secondly, do you play in any bands around here or anything?



A few years back I saw a guy posting about a store in North Carolina that was claiming they were selling musicyo's last run of GM's. The guy said he grabbed one and they played awesome, so I contacted the store and grabbed one of his remaining guitars. 

I don't play in any bands unfortunately and I haven't made the move to 
Richmond yet (I will in the summer).


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## Be_eM

For those of you who want to buy a Steinie, I just found this ad in Austria:

Steinberger GM-4S, günstig kaufen und gratis inserieren auf willhaben.at!

I have no idea if it's still there, but I guess it is&#8230; since it's an unusual place to sell a Steinie. The price of 950 Euro equals about US$ 1,400. It's a near mint Music Yo GM-4S, blue.

If you need any assistance with the language or other things, just let me know. I might contact the seller for you, if you're *really* interested.

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

ahh! So sick! Unfortunately I can't read anything on the website! Do you know if they would ship to the US and how I would contact them?


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## MikeH

These things are growing on me terribly.


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> ahh! So sick! Unfortunately I can't read anything on the website! Do you know if they would ship to the US and how I would contact them?




This is a private sale, so I don't know if he would sell internationally. Just ask him. There's a blue button "Anfrage senden", which leads to a contact form. Fill in your questions in the "Anmerkungen" field, and your name/e-mail address.

The translated text of the offer says:

-----
This is an original Steinberger GM-4S.
A collector's item, with a special value and design.
The guitar is in mint condition and has rarely been played.

Year of manufacturing: unknown (I guess around 2006)
Bought in 2008
Color: Clear Blue

Tremolo: Steinberger S-Trem, with locking system. Fully functional and stays in tune

Pickups: H-S-S EMG
Serial: N001441 
Included: 3 sets of strings (9-42), case
Original price: about 1400 Euro (plausible in Europe)
-----

If he still has the guitar and just doesn't want to sell internationally, maybe I could be the "man in the middle".

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Be_eM said:


> This is a private sale, so I don't know if he would sell internationally. Just ask him. There's a blue button "Anfrage senden", which leads to a contact form. Fill in your questions in the "Anmerkungen" field, and your name/e-mail address.
> 
> The translated text of the offer says:
> 
> -----
> This is an original Steinberger GM-4S.
> A collector's item, with a special value and design.
> The guitar is in mint condition and has rarely been played.
> 
> Year of manufacturing: unknown (I guess around 2006)
> Bought in 2008
> Color: Clear Blue
> 
> Tremolo: Steinberger S-Trem, with locking system. Fully functional and stays in tune
> 
> Pickups: H-S-S EMG
> Serial: N001441
> Included: 3 sets of strings (9-42), case
> Original price: about 1400 Euro (plausible in Europe)
> -----
> 
> If he still has the guitar and just doesn't want to sell internationally, maybe I could be the "man in the middle".
> 
> Bernd



Thanks so much as always for the help man! Around how much do you think it would cost to ship to America (Virginia)?


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Also, I have a few questions. I have never been lucky enough to play a transtrem or an S trem. I have heard that the S trem can actually bend chords in tune pretty well but it can't lock into other tunings like the transtrem. I originally really wanted a transtrem bridge, but I've heard great things about the S bridge as well. Any information you can tell me about these bridges will be much appreciated! thanks!


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Thanks so much as always for the help man! Around how much do you think it would cost to ship to America (Virginia)?




I don't know how the prices in Austria are. From Germany (DHL) it would be 45 Euro (without insurance, with tracking). Insurance for the full value isn't possible, insurance for up to 500 Euro would make additional 34 Euro.

Bernd


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Also, I have a few questions. I have never been lucky enough to play a transtrem or an S trem. I have heard that the S trem can actually bend chords in tune pretty well but it can't lock into other tunings like the transtrem.



I haven't played an S-Trem yet, but I doubt the ability to "bend chords in tune". Even a Transtrem is only able to do this when perfectly set up, using calibrated strings. I've several TTs here which are not set up properly (yes, laziness), and they behave like any other trem. They bend, that's it.

Bernd


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## B-lebs

I have a GM4s, and the S-trem does NOT bend chords in tune. At all. It has a cool sound which is different from typical floyd's and the like, and is stiffer than many trems. Other than the stiffness of the bar, it is just a standard trem.


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

B-lebs said:


> I have a GM4s, and the S-trem does NOT bend chords in tune. At all. It has a cool sound which is different from typical floyd's and the like, and is stiffer than many trems. Other than the stiffness of the bar, it is just a standard trem.



hmm I'm not sure how I feel about it feeling "stiff." I've already heard the r trems were stiff and didn't feel great but that the s trems felt awesome. hmmm This guitar is fucking killer though! What are everyone's thoughts? should I get this incredible gm4s? is stick it out and try to find pretty much the same thing but as a gm7s or gm7t?


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## B-lebs

By stiff, I don't mean uncomfortable, it's just different; it does feel awesome! Also, if you want a GM7 s or t, then wait for that; I wanted a GM4s so I waited for one.


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## yingmin

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Also, I have a few questions. I have never been lucky enough to play a transtrem or an S trem. I have heard that the S trem can actually bend chords in tune pretty well but it can't lock into other tunings like the transtrem. I originally really wanted a transtrem bridge, but I've heard great things about the S bridge as well. Any information you can tell me about these bridges will be much appreciated! thanks!



B-lebs is right, the S trem doesn't transpose like the Transtrem does. It's just a standard trem built on the Transtrem frame. I don't know if I'd agree with his assessment of them as being "stiffer", and it's definitely nowhere near an R-trem for stiffness. It's a great bridge, and you absolutely should get that guitar.


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## -42-

Be_eM said:


> I'm right here



Quoting this pic because cream and black binding makes me...well...


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon

B-lebs said:


> By stiff, I don't mean uncomfortable, it's just different; it does feel awesome! Also, if you want a GM7 s or t, then wait for that; I wanted a GM4s so I waited for one.



I love the guitar, it's gorgeous. I'm just not sure what exactly to expect with single coils in the neck. I play a lot of fusion/jazz stuff (holdsworth/gambale/cynic are a few of my favorites) as well as heavier progressive metal stuff. what are your opinions on having two single coils as opposed to a single and a humbucker in the neck? any issues with different volume levels or anything?


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## Be_eM

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> what are your opinions on having two single coils as opposed to a single and a humbucker in the neck? any issues with different volume levels or anything?




With an EMG 89 in bridge and neck position (on the GM-7), there normally would be an issue with volume levels when switching between single coil (SA) and humbucker (85). That's why all "-7" Steinies have an additional 22k resistor in the humbucker part of the wiring, adjusting the levels to get closer to the SA levels. The remaining output level jump is still somewhat noticeable, but quite smooth and expected for an SC/HB switch. 

So a GM-7 is without question the most versatile guitar, as it includes all the GM-4 sounds. The question which only you can answer is: do you need that? If yes: wait.

Bernd


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## B-lebs

+1 to Bernd. With the 89s, also, I believe you can coil tap, and have the 89 in the neck position act as a single coil or a humbucker; it gives you the same options available with a Gm4, and more.


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## yingmin

Honestly, if you bought that GM4S and installed a GK3 in it, I'd probably trade you my GM7S for it.


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## Durero

I have a MusicYo GM4-T (but not any good pics of it.)





(Custom Sherman 2nd from left is not mine, nor is the Ibanez RG2228, but the rest are.)


And I have an XM2-T with a rare and working bass Trans-Trem.


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## Justin Bailey

Beautiful


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## B-lebs

That's the bassist in me right now.


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## yingmin

Guitar Center in Rockville Maryland has what looks like a Newburgh GM4S (can't be entirely sure because of the picture quality) for $1000. Just thought someone might want to jump on that.


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## B-lebs

If I had money... this is just the worst time for them to get a berger!

EDIT: Actually, on close inspection, that appears to be an Ed Roman Catastroberger. Look at the bridge, and bridge route, it goes too far behind because he switched the T or S-trem for an R.... and not even a real one, one of the Hohner ones.


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## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> EDIT: Actually, on close inspection, that appears to be an Ed Roman Catastroberger. Look at the bridge, and bridge route, it goes too far behind because he switched the T or S-trem for an R.... and not even a real one, one of the Hohner ones.



Eagle eye 

One could really overlook that on this picture, a bigger one would definitely help. The opening for the trem bar could as well sit "in the dark", just not being visible. But the double text line under the "Steinberger System" box says: correct, there's an "Under License" line which shouldn't be there on an S-Trem.

However, if it's a "real" Romanberger, it should cost at least $3,000 

Bernd


----------



## MFB

I've been trying to find a Spirit for a little while now, but they rarely pop up and the ones I've seen people want $600ish for. Really people, I know they're rare but they aren't legit Steinys.


----------



## B-lebs

I'm glad I caught that, cause I was about fifty seconds away from pawning one of my basses. lol.


----------



## XEN

I can't believe I missed this thread!
Here's my beat up old 1986 GM1TA. I picked it up in '95 for a measly $395 from an Atlanta store that clearly had no idea what it was worth.


----------



## Justin Bailey

You lucky bastard


----------



## B-lebs

$395? really.... good find, you lucky bastard.


----------



## Valbert

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> For those of you with experience of different steinbergers, how do you feel about the gr? I know the bridge isn't as good as a transtrem or an s series but is it that bad?



As far as my experience with the R-Trem on my GR4R goes, I can say it's definitely not bad. Stays in tune very well, even after extreme dive bombs. It's pretty stiff though, but you get used to it. The locking feature is nice.

I actually thought about saving up a little more to go for a GM someday, but since I barely use trems and don't care about active EQ, I got a used MusicYo GR4R which I had an eye on for some time then.

I know it's actually a GM thread, but here's a pic of my GR anyways:






P.S.: Dammit, I could have gotten that blue GM so easily since I live in Austria, but that auction came up too after I got my GR. Well, that's life, I guess. And I'm perfectly happy with my Steinie


----------



## B-lebs

Are the neck and middle pickups Ultra-Sonics?


----------



## Valbert

B-lebs said:


> Are the neck and middle pickups Ultra-Sonics?



Yes they are. The neck pickup is really great for jazzy stuff, really smooth but not dull, with a good portion of treble. Also sings really nice when distorted.

The bridge pickup is a Bartolini. A pretty brutal beast


----------



## B-lebs

Very nice!


----------



## Valbert

Thx!


----------



## B-lebs

Just saw a great looking GM1SA from Newburgh on the Bay. (this time, no roman)


----------



## Valbert

and I've spotted this eye candy: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?campid=5336506873&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FSteinberger-GM1T-Custom-Shop-Egyptian-Motif-NAMM-Show-%2F230620192212%3Fpt%3DGuitar%26amp%3Bhash%3Ditem35b208ddd4


----------



## B-lebs

Yeah, an incredible piece. The guy(s) from Headless USA always have astonishing pieces, albeit at high prices.


----------



## OwenD

B-lebs said:


> Just saw a great looking GM1SA from Newburgh on the Bay. (this time, no roman)



Too bad I think it'd need a fret job. He says it had a fret level but they look quite low to me.
Paintwork looks fine on it which is a change from some Steinbergers on ebay.


----------



## B-lebs

To me, the frets look fine, definitely have a while of playability left in them. I do, however, have a soft fretting hand, so I don't need anything done to my frets often.


----------



## kyo126

I miss them.


----------



## Valbert

kyo126 said:


> I miss them.



Oh... did you sell them? 
I like the red GR... is that a MusicYo GR or an older one?


----------



## Justin Bailey

i would too


----------



## kyo126

Valbert said:


> Oh... did you sell them?
> I like the red GR... is that a MusicYo GR or an older one?



They are both musicyo era. Yea, I like the GR more due to transparent finish. The GM plays better and sounds better tho.


----------



## B-lebs

Music-Yo! GM4TA on the bay right now. Seller thinks it is an unbound, trans-red, flame maple Newburgh from the 80's/early 90's.


----------



## yingmin

B-lebs said:


> Music-Yo! GM4TA on the bay right now. Seller thinks it is an unbound, trans-red, flame maple Newburgh from the 80's/early 90's.



Eh, still a pretty good price for what it is, even if he's badly misinformed about the chronology. Let's see where the price goes from here.


----------



## Be_eM

Anybody noticed that it's a 7-digit serial? Newburgh had 5 digits, Music Yo 6. So this guitar obviously comes from the future?

Bernd


----------



## yingmin

Be_eM said:


> Anybody noticed that it's a 7-digit serial? Newburgh had 5 digits, Music Yo 6. So this guitar obviously comes from the future?
> 
> Bernd



My Yo GM has 7 digits.


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> My Yo GM has 7 digits.



Hmmm the letter "N" plus 7 digits? That's strange. I've got two of them, one of them is made during the very last production runs (with a Fibersonixx neck), and the highest number actually shown is in the 2k area. Both guitars have a 6-digit number with two leading zeros.

Edit: I'll attach a screen shot of the Steinberger USA inventory, as found on the website in July 2008. Check the serials. My latest MY GM as mentioned above has a N0019xx serial.

Bernd


----------



## yingmin

Mine is N0000112. I can take a picture when I get home.


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Mine is N0000112. I can take a picture when I get home.




Also in the low hundreds. Well, possibly Music Yo was more optimistic about sales, when they started building USA Steinies again 

Bernd


----------



## B-lebs

Just in case, there is a $300 body and neck combo on the bay. I was planning on buying, but I no longer have the funds.


----------



## yingmin

Guitar Center in Englewood Colorado has a 1987 GM4T in black for $1299. They haven't posted a picture yet, no idea if it comes with the case and bar and all that, or what the condition is like, but it might be worth jumping on for anyone interested.


----------



## yingmin

Check out this "pre-Gibson" Steinberger Spirit: UPDATE ~ Original Steinberger Spirit Guitar pre-Gibson | eBay

Didn't they start making the Spirits in the late 90s? You know, roughly a decade after Gibson bought them?


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Didn't they start making the Spirits in the late 90s? You know, roughly a decade after Gibson bought them?




Exactly. Actually the Spirits are Gibson's attempt to enter a mass market.

Bernd


----------



## yingmin

Did the Spirits use Gibson-style serial numbers, where you can date them by the first and fifth digits? Or was it a completely separate system? The former would make my GU7R an '03, which is certainly plausible as far as I know.


----------



## Be_eM

I don't know. The only Spirit I own is a partsberger I've assembled myself, without any knowledge about production dates of the parts. However, since Spirits are a Gibson "invention", they probably used their established numbering scheme. Sounds logical.

Bernd


----------



## Justin Bailey

Everyone knows how much I love Steinbergers and Headless guitars in general, but one of the top most lusted after headless guitars for me it the GM1TA, I always just loved the simplicity and the elegance of that first M model.


----------



## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Hey guys, sorry I have been incredibly busy the past month! I received my Steinberger GM4S in trans blue from Austria a few weeks ago and I am completely in love! This is my first Steinberger, but surely will not be my last! It's like a piece of art. It looks absolutely gorgeous and plays even better. The tone is incredible, I especially love using both single coils together for cleans and soloing on the bridge pickup is incredible! Next on my list is a steinberger with a transtrem and/or a GM7. 

Only issue I've come across so far. has anyone else had this problem/is this normal? When I screw the bar in and then screw down the circular thing on top to lock the bar in place, it comes loose as I play.


----------



## B-lebs

I have that problem; what works for me is screwing down the lock nut (circular piece) first, then screwing the bar into a comfortable and accessible position, or just dealing with a loose bar.
Have fun, and post pics!


----------



## yingmin

I just took the nut off of my trem bar. It's still a little loose, but it's totally manageable. I'd much rather have a drop-in bar, but what are you gonna do?


----------



## CrossingTheEventHorizon

Here's some pictures of my beautiful new steiny


----------



## Tymon

Here's pics of my GMs.

My loyal friend GM-4S. It's been 18 volt modded and it has a Roland GK pickup installed. I think it's exactly the same as CrossingTheEventHorizon's new guitar.







My fretless Stein. Made from a Spirit body which I stripped, stained and oiled. It has a Mosesgraphite fretless neck and a Fernandes Sustainer pickup.







My soon to be swirled Stein. It's an old Newburgh body that I found on eBay. I'll put a Mosesgraphite neck and an XS-trem on it. In case you're not familiar with them, it's a great S-trem replacement.


----------



## Tymon

yingmin said:


>



How funny, you also have a blue GM with a reverse installed GK pickup, looks familiar


----------



## Be_eM

Great to see some beautiful and interesting new "faces" here 
Congratulations, CTEH. I'm sure you won't regret it.

Bernd


----------



## yingmin

Tymon said:


> Here's pics of my GMs.


Awesome, now tell Paul to get his ass into this thread.


Tymon said:


> How funny, you also have a blue GM with a reverse installed GK pickup, looks familiar


 I've replaced the pickups, but haven't posted a new picture since then. It now has a Crunchlab/Liquifire combo with a Lace Sensor light blue in the middle.


----------



## B-lebs

What Tymon, no love for the ZT-3 I see ducking in the back there? Also, on a side note, cant wait to hear more from Exivious, and I hope you guys have a North American tour sometime soon!


----------



## CrossingTheEventHorizon

B-lebs said:


> What Tymon, no love for the ZT-3 I see ducking in the back there?



Well to be fair, this is the GM thread not the ZT3 thread


----------



## B-lebs

Yeah, that's true. Regardless, nice contributions.


----------



## MFB

Can anyone help a brother out identifying a legit GM4? This is a picture of it that the seller has :






Looks legit, but it seems to be missing the big "STEINBERGER" brand on the body, and I thought they had EMG's originally? So they must have swapped them out for something else.


----------



## B-lebs

That is a GR4. Not sure why it is missing the Steinberger logo, but the Duncan's were standard on this model, as was the R-trem. Basically a GM, but cheaper to produce; the differences are the GR is passive and has an R-trem, as opposed to the S or T-trem and active EMG's of a GM.


----------



## MFB

How is the R-Trem compared to the S/T models? I would only be using it for subtle vibrato or leaving it as hard-tail so it may not be that big of a deal.

Edit : Where does the bar even go on the R models? On the standard S-Trem it goes down by the tuners, but this one doesn't have the spot there, so would it be in a more traditional spot like Kalhers and Floyds?


----------



## B-lebs

I've never played one, so I wouldn't know how it compares to an S-tremmed 'berger (which are fantastic, if you get the chance to get one). They are able to lock down, and act as a fixed bridge AFAIK, and are knife edge when not locked. I've heard that they are similar to floyds, just stiffer. 

The bar on the R-Trem goes in a hole right under the saddles, you can see it in the picture above. It is a drop in bar, not screw in like an S or T.


----------



## MFB

Word, dropping the cash for her tomorrow then


----------



## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> Not sure why it is missing the Steinberger logo



Because the body obviously has been refinished. There's no other plausible explanation.

Bernd


----------



## B-lebs

Be_eM said:


> Because the body obviously has been refinished. There's no other plausible explanation.
> 
> Bernd


 That looks like a standard early GM finish; I think the logo could easily have been rubbed off with a combination of sweat, guitar polish, and time being played. 

If it is a refinish, at least it looks professional.


----------



## MFB

I asked Justin about it as well and he said it may have been a refinish, but Steinbergers DID at one point come in blue so it may have just been rubbed off.

Either way, it's mine now


----------



## B-lebs

Pics?


----------



## Tymon

B-lebs said:


> What Tymon, no love for the ZT-3 I see ducking in the back there? Also, on a side note, cant wait to hear more from Exivious, and I hope you guys have a North American tour sometime soon!



I don't even have my ZT-3s anymore. I was never a big fan of their newer stuff, it lost most of what made Steinberger so special in the first place. I've been bugging Steinberger about a GM reissue but for some reason I never get a straight answer as to why they're not doing it.

So I recently acquired a Parker endorsement, because sticking with Steinberger is rather pointless for me right now. Anyways, off topic...


----------



## B-lebs

Tymon said:


> I don't even have my ZT-3s anymore. I was never a big fan of their newer stuff, it lost most of what made Steinberger so special in the first place. I've been bugging Steinberger about a GM reissue but for some reason I never get a straight answer as to why they're not doing it.
> 
> So I recently acquired a Parker endorsement, because sticking with Steinberger is rather pointless for me right now. Anyways, off topic...



That's disappointing, but understandable; the current Steinbergers don't appeal to me as much as the earlier ones as well. 
As for the GM reissue, I think it's just bad business sense. Not selling the second most recognizable guitar, and most reasonable to produce in the old fashioned way, just doesn't make sense. 

Enjoy Parker though, I've played a few phenomenal Flys, and I hope your experience is nothing short of incredible.


----------



## MFB

B-lebs said:


> Pics?



Dont worry, I'll do a full picstory when it arrives


----------



## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> That looks like a standard early GM finish; I think the logo could easily have been rubbed off with a combination of sweat, guitar polish, and time being played.
> 
> If it is a refinish, at least it looks professional.




Agreed regarding the professional look, and yes, the color looks familiar. However, this would be the first G-body I see, which is so flawless, but the logo rubbed off completely and without any traces 
Apart from that, there's nothing wrong with refinishing a Steinie. Below is a pic of my current project, and yes, the body will be refinished. I just think it should be declared as such when selling a guitar.







Bernd


----------



## B-lebs

True, very true. Either way, it's sure to be great.

On a side note:
Another S Bernd? Where do you keep finding the necks and trems?! 

Wait... You wouldn't happen to be Ned Steinberger, operating your own small factory, would you?


----------



## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> On a side note:
> Another S Bernd? Where do you keep finding the necks and trems?!
> 
> Wait... You wouldn't happen to be Ned Steinberger, operating your own small factory, would you?




Yes, another S. I bought the body almost exactly a year ago, and the neck even before, so nothing new here. Some projects just take their time. This body once belonged to Brett Garsed, and you might know that his GSs all were modified to a H-S configuration, some also with an additional GK pickup. So I'm just restoring the body to its original shape (H-S-H), re-opening the previously closed routings. That makes a refinishing obligatory, but the old finish war pretty beat-up anyway.

BTW, I'd love to go back in time and get access to old Steinie parts (MY yard sales also were a great opportunity to find cheap Steinie parts), but no, I'm neither Ned nor do I have better access to all these things. The opposite is true, in Europe it's twice as hard as in USA, since a lot of Steinberger ebay sales are CONUS only.

Bernd


----------



## Durero

I'm loving seeing more of your collection and projects Bernd


----------



## sytraxiplague

My tuuurrnn.

Please ignore the mess in the floor, it was spring cleaning time a year or so ago haha. 

Stock MusicYo GM4S, Clear Red. I've thought so many times about putting a GK pickup or something in it.. But since it was one of the last new ones and it's in such great condition, something tells me not to. I guess we'll see what happens eventually!


----------



## Be_eM

sytraxiplague said:


> Stock MusicYo GM4S, Clear Red. I've thought so many times about putting a GK pickup or something in it.. But since it was one of the last new ones and it's in such great condition, something tells me not to. I guess we'll see what happens eventually!




Beautiful, a fantastic top and finish. For modifications, I'd always prefer buying separate parts and making a project out of it, tailored to my needs. That's why I didn't install the Bondy piezo saddles into an existing guitar, but built a new one. The parts you collect don't have necessarily to be in mint condition, any beat-up body will do.

Bernd


----------



## sytraxiplague

Be_eM said:


> Beautiful, a fantastic top and finish. For modifications, I'd always prefer buying separate parts and making a project out of it, tailored to my needs. That's why I didn't install the Bondy piezo saddles into an existing guitar, but built a new one. The parts you collect don't have necessarily to be in mint condition, any beat-up body will do.
> 
> Bernd



Thanks for the advice! I've been looking at some Spirit and GM bodies on Ebay lately, I think that's the route I'm going to take. Tymon's fretless turned out really nice, and that even has a Spirit body. So I think that's what I'm going for. Thanks!


----------



## Be_eM

sytraxiplague said:


> I've been looking at some Spirit and GM bodies on Ebay lately



In this case you should note that both guitars aren't directly compatible regarding the neck pocket. Both need different neck heels, and Moses offers two different versions of the MB-27 neck for that reason. However, if you'll be using a Spirit neck with a Spirit body (or a composite neck on a GM body) this doesn't matter 

Bernd


----------



## sytraxiplague

Be_eM said:


> In this case you should note that both guitars aren't directly compatible regarding the neck pocket. Both need different neck heels, and Moses offers two different versions of the MB-27 neck for that reason. However, if you'll be using a Spirit neck with a Spirit body (or a composite neck on a GM body) this doesn't matter
> 
> Bernd



Yeah, I've read up about the Moses necks and the compatibility between the different guitars. They make graphite ones that fit the spirits though, right?

I was also thinking of getting a new one for this one, because these frets are starting to get a bit worn. Particularly around the 0-3 frets. It's still holding up though, so I'll go as long as I can without that.


----------



## Be_eM

sytraxiplague said:


> YThey make graphite ones that fit the spirits though, right?




Yes


----------



## Valbert

There's an interesting GM body on the bay right now...

Steinberger GM4 Guitar Body Textured RARE | eBay

Interesting colors, don't you think? A bit French...


----------



## Be_eM

Valbert said:


> There's an interesting GM body on the bay right now...http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D642356698086178447
> 
> Interesting colors, don't you think? A bit French...




Yes, funny 
Still wondering who this seller is. He sold quite a number of different Steinie trems recently, and some other parts. He must have some secret sources 

Bernd


----------



## Tymon

Still a beauty, Shane!

Regarding the neck pockets, yeah just be sure to order the right one from Moses. I actually never really looked into the difference, I can't tell by eye what the difference between Musicyo USA and Spirit necks should be...?

The Spirit bodies are nice, the finishes are ugly but that's something you can change. You're kind of stuck with the R-trem though and they suck. Unless you're going for a fretless as well, then it obviously doesn't matter because you'll just leave it locked anyways. Though I've heard R-trem bodies can be (easily) adjusted to take S and Trans trems, do you know more about that, Bernd?


----------



## Be_eM

Tymon said:


> I can't tell by eye what the difference between Musicyo USA and Spirit necks should be...?




Hi Tymon,

I've never ordered a Moses neck for a Spirit body, but as far as I know it's mainly the heel angle that makes a difference. A correct angle is necessary to make the best contact possible. That's why Moses also limits the fitting guarantee to later Spirits (I don't remember the exact year, though, and currently don't find that information on the redesigned website).



Tymon said:


> Though I've heard R-trem bodies can be (easily) adjusted to take S and Trans trems, do you know more about that, Bernd?



I wouldn't call it easy, there are some major differences. The R-Trem routing is wider and deeper, and while you can always compensate height differences by a shim, the additional width might leave ugly gaps.

In order to construct the shims for the FX-Bridge, I've taken exact measurements of both routings, I can dig them out if needed. But you might get the idea from looking at the different shims alone.

Bernd


----------



## yingmin

Be_eM said:


> In order to construct the shims for the FX-Bridge, I've taken exact measurements of both routings, I can dig them out if needed. But you might get the idea from looking at the different shims alone.


Haha, I remember stumbling onto that site a while back, when I started wondering if it would be possible to install a piezo system in a Steinberger. I should have figured it was you.


Tymon said:


> I don't even have my ZT-3s anymore. I was never a big fan of their newer stuff, it lost most of what made Steinberger so special in the first place. I've been bugging Steinberger about a GM reissue but for some reason I never get a straight answer as to why they're not doing it.
> 
> So I recently acquired a Parker endorsement, because sticking with Steinberger is rather pointless for me right now. Anyways, off topic...



So we have nearly-identical Steinbergers, and now you're playing Parker? Add in that a couple of my friends frequently compare my band's music to Cynic (and I don't even really listen to Cynic), and this is starting to get weird.


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Haha, I remember stumbling onto that site a while back, when I started wondering if it would be possible to install a piezo system in a Steinberger. I should have figured it was you.



Yes, the one and only SteinBernd


----------



## B-lebs

Beautiful Gm4s Sytraxiplague!

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/sytraxiplague.html


----------



## MFB

Damn you Bern, I might just pick up a Spirit and throw one of the graphite necks on there now that I know they exist and aren't ridiculously expensive. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Tymon

Be_eM said:


> Hi Tymon,
> 
> I've never ordered a Moses neck for a Spirit body, but as far as I know it's mainly the heel angle that makes a difference. A correct angle is necessary to make the best contact possible. That's why Moses also limits the fitting guarantee to later Spirits (I don't remember the exact year, though, and currently don't find that information on the redesigned website).



I did need a shim for the neck to sit right, but I remember there was already one in there for the original wooden neck as well.



> I wouldn't call it easy, there are some major differences. The R-Trem routing is wider and deeper, and while you can always compensate height differences by a shim, the additional width might leave ugly gaps.



Yeah doesn't sound too easy. Well I wasn't planning on trying this out anyways but good to know.


----------



## Be_eM

Tymon said:


> I did need a shim for the neck to sit right, but I remember there was already one in there for the original wooden neck as well.



Really? That's new to me, but on the other hand, it doesn't really surprise me. There have been major differences and tolerance issues with Spirits throughout the years. As far as I know Gibson used different Korean manufacturers for the Spirits, and these changes also caused changes in the exact body/routing dimensions. 

I had to learn this the hard way: I just had the first lot of R-Trem shims manufactured, sent it out to several customers, and learned that it didn't fit their Spirits. The R-Trem routing on my Spirit was bigger than their's. That's why two different R-Trem shims exist.

Bernd


----------



## MFB

Fuckin' aye Guitar Center, you're killing me! 

That Steiny I ordered was in a Guitar Center in Pennsylvania, a mere 5/6 hour trip, not that big of a deal, but the way you have to order stuff is annoying. They said they'd call me back, and I had work that night so I probably missed it AND I don't get any tracking number for my baby  I can only hope it shipped on Monday afternoon or Tues. morning so it'll be here tomorrow.


----------



## MFB

Whoops, spoke to soon 

Feel free to see her in all her glory here lads, http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/161319-ngd-how-could-i-indeed-paul.html


----------



## Be_eM

MFB said:


> Feel free to see her in all her glory here lads&#8230;




Congratulations on this nice Newburgh GR&#8230; with a beautiful logo. Apparently this guitar knows where it belongs, so it found its way to you without too many efforts on your side 

Bernd


----------



## MFB

Be_eM said:


> Congratulations on this nice Newburgh GR with a beautiful logo. Apparently this guitar knows where it belongs, so it found its way to you without too many efforts on your side
> 
> Bernd



I haven't even played a single note on it yet since I went to the gym, then did the picstory and am now eating dinner then heading to a friends for game 7; but just by the feel of everything, I'm jealous of how many you've got


----------



## Be_eM

MFB said:


> I haven't even played a single note on it yet  but just by the feel of everything, I'm jealous of how many you've got




Mine wouldn't be good for you. Just many more guitars you wouldn't find the time to play. Hey, how about adjusting your priorities a little bit or maybe hmmmm  are you a bit frightened of the first contact?


----------



## yingmin

Guitar Center in San Marcos have this listed only as "used Steinberger red":







Romanberger? Looks like it could be Newburgh body, but I'm pretty sure that's an R-trem. It's selling for $999, which I think is not a terrible price for what it is.


----------



## Valbert

Yep, it's a Romanberger. He took a GM, ripped out the Trans- or S-Trem (probably to sell them as individual parts), put an R-Trem in and sold it to some poor guy as an "Original Newburgh GM".
$999 may seem like an okay price and it was originally sold for probably many times more, but ER ruined that guitar. To actually put an R-Trem in, it's necessary to modify the routing since the R-Trem's dimensions are different (broader). So, if you'd want to change it back to a T or S-Trem - no chance.
Well, I wouldn't buy it.


----------



## Be_eM

Valbert said:


> $999 may seem like an okay price




Nope. A Romanberger most likely has a Moses neck ($310 new), a set of EMGs (about $200) and an R-Trem (about $150). Let's add about $50 for the 5-way switch and output jack. The body - as a value - is ruined. That makes a value in parts of about $700-750. And in case of a Romanberger, the whole isn't more than the sum of its parts.

Bernd


----------



## Valbert

Oh well, I didn't calculate it together that thoroughly 
But good to know


----------



## Valbert

Here's a new photo of my GR I just shot, I thought it was time for an outdoor photo shooting 






Indoors, the color looks ivy-ish, but outdoors, exposed to direct sunlight, it really starts to shine!!


----------



## Be_eM

Really nice. Guitars are always greener in the neighbour's garden


----------



## Justin Bailey

Awesome looking GR, man.


----------



## B-lebs

<---Does want. 

I really want to find another GM, mine has only staved off GAS for so long


----------



## sytraxiplague

I saw that green on on Ebay a few months ago, didn't I?  Congrats! Looks great.


----------



## Swarth

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Here's some pictures of my beautiful new steiny



Ah you got one, congrats man.

EDIT: Sup' Shane!


----------



## Valbert

sytraxiplague said:


> I saw that green on on Ebay a few months ago, didn't I?  Congrats! Looks great.



Dont know about that... I got mine from Mansons Guitars in the UK about 4 months ago. Thx


----------



## sytraxiplague

Swarth said:


> Ah you got one, congrats man.
> 
> EDIT: Sup' Shane!



What's up man! Long time no talk. Hit me up sometime. 

That's a lovely blue, btw, CTEH.



Valbert said:


> Dont know about that... I got mine from Mansons Guitars in the UK about 4 months ago. Thx



Interesting! Swore I've seen that one around before. Nice guitar, regardless


----------



## yingmin

Steinberger USA GM7SA Trans Blue Electric Guitar | eBay

MusicYo GM7SA for $1300. It looks exactly like mine, except maybe a little lighter in color.


----------



## BlackStar7

I have been absolutely _lusting _after a blue GM7SA like yours/tymons/CTEH's, yingmin. Too bad prices right now are so steep and it will probably be no different. Did you see the gorgeous Music-yo-era GM4T the same seller had go for 2200 a few weeks ago? I know the trans-trem is at quite the premium, but yeesh that still hurts.

I did manage to snag a GR4 on the bay a few months ago for an insane price. I need to get a NGD on here! I am still dreaming of a glue GM7SA though...


----------



## BlackStar7

Also, anybody see this thing? 
Steinberger GM1R - Black w/white binding | eBay

What the hell is going on here? I know the Ed Roman abominations are known for the hideously transplanted R-trems, but is that neck with the weird truss rod his creation too? What an absolute travesty...


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...Guitar&amp;hash=item1e64c7f321#ht_1644wt_1139MusicYo GM7SA for $1300. It looks exactly like mine, except maybe a little lighter in color.




One knob more than needed. Just saying


----------



## Be_eM

BlackStar7 said:


> I am still dreaming of a glue GM7



Oh, if glue turns you on, you should take that black GM-7 Frankenberger sitting on ebay for months now. Lots of glue, me thinks 

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

BlackStar7 said:


> but is that neck with the weird truss rod his creation too? What an absolute travesty...



Yes, normal. He has some more of these (with truss rod access on the body) on his website.


----------



## BucketheadRules

I don't know how relevant this is as they aren't necessarily tr00 Steinberger Ms, but does anyone know how rare the Spirit GU is, and where the best place would be to find one (preferably even in the UK)? I think they're discontinued, which makes me a sad panda. 

Here's what I'm talking:


----------



## Be_eM

BucketheadRules said:


> I don't know how relevant this is as they aren't necessarily tr00 Steinberger Ms, but does anyone know how rare the Spirit GU is, and where the best place would be to find one (preferably even in the UK)?




Spirit GUs appear quite regularly on ebay. Not always the flamed top versions, but anyway I'd say, about 2-4 per month. Should be possible to get one in the UK, too 

Bernd


----------



## BucketheadRules

Be_eM said:


> Spirit GUs appear quite regularly on ebay. Not always the flamed top versions, but anyway I'd say, about 2-4 per month. Should be possible to get one in the UK, too
> 
> Bernd



Thanks man.

Do you have any experience with them? Are they any good?


----------



## Be_eM

BucketheadRules said:


> Do you have any experience with them? Are they any good?



Depends on what you compare it to. They are nicely playable guitars with all the advantages of a headless design, however, they are a different league than a GM or GR. The wooden version of the headless neck is OK (IMHO), but people mostly complain about the passive EMG Select pickups. But it's not a problem to exchange these for whatever you want.

My experience with them is limited to a single "Partsberger" (see below) I've assembled, and I meanwhile replaced the R-Trem by a JCustom FX-Bridge. But that's only my personal preference, there are enough people out there who actually like the R-Trem.

Bernd


----------



## CrossingTheEventHorizon

yingmin said:


> Steinberger USA GM7SA Trans Blue Electric Guitar | eBay
> 
> MusicYo GM7SA for $1300. It looks exactly like mine, except maybe a little lighter in color.



I may try to pick it up! I love my gm4 and would love to get a gm7 next  I'm talking with him now about trying to lower the price and sell it to me direct outside of the auction.


----------



## yingmin

Steinberger Spirit Doubleneck Bass/Guitar Combo | eBay

Some jackass is selling a Spirit bass/guitar doubleneck with a starting bid of $1799. I imagine that brand new, they sold for roughly half that. American-made Steinbergers haven't appreciated much, if at all, and Spirits damn sure haven't appreciated 100%.

Also, I want the shit out of this thing. I don't even care how well it works: http://cgi.ebay.com/Steinberger-Pro...3?pt=Guitar&hash=item1e64d65d1f#ht_700wt_1139


----------



## Valbert

Wow, I've seen that fretless/fretted bass on the steinberger world page before and it seemed to be lost for such a long time! Great to see it showed up again. A very interesting system, I'd love to try it out.


----------



## B-lebs

I've recently encountered a problem with my GM4S; when I tune the D-string, the knob is much more resistant than that of any other string--almost locked in. 

Does anyone else have this problem or know of a way to fix it?


----------



## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> Does anyone else have this problem or know of a way to fix it?



Metal on metal movement sometimes need some grease. Gun oil is often recommended, also products like Grofa White Lightning (for bicycles). Do NOT use something like WD-40.

Bernd


----------



## B-lebs

Thanks Bernd, I think I have some bike grease somewhere, I'll put it on the thread tomorrow.


----------



## 55699

Hi,

I'm new here ..greetings...did anyone noticed that the steinberger logo is either in white or black...why's that? I just noticed that by looking at member Be eM's pictures....


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> I'm new here ..greetings...did anyone noticed that the steinberger logo is either in white or black...why's that? I just noticed that by looking at member Be eM's pictures....




That's the way it is, yes. Either white or black. And in some rare occasions gold (the so called "Elite" series). So what's the question? 



Bernd


----------



## 55699

what about the GM7s....Do they have graphite necks aswell?.. I've noticed there's three holes on the top...????


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> what about the GM7s....Do they have graphite necks aswell?.. I've noticed there's three holes on the top...????



All USA GMs have a composite neck, yes. Three holes on the top say: this is a Music Yo version with a Moses neck (two mounting holes for the headpiece, one bigger hole for truss rod access).


----------



## uptheweight

this is my first post in this forum but searching for steinbergers led me to this forum...i used to own an original GM model and one of the GR-4U models with the seymour ducans....i just landed a great deal on ebay and the guitar arrived today...i got a 1988 orginal newburg model GM4S with S trem, 15 packs of strings, and original steinberger strap for $1500 shipped...guitar is in excellent condition with minor scratches....the neck pcikup was professionally routed out making it a h/s/h now...plays great!...i sold my amp and my new mesa mark v gets here wednesday so i technically won't hear it through an amp until then...now im gonna be on a mission relearning cynic and white lion licks..lol...by the way, mine is the black model with white body binding..gorgeous!...i will post pics soon


----------



## Be_eM

uptheweight said:


> ...i got a 1988 orginal newburg model GM4S with S trem, 15 packs of strings, and original steinberger strap for $1500 shipped...guitar is in excellent condition with minor scratches....the neck pcikup was professionally routed out making it a h/s/h now...plays great!...



Hi there & congratulations 
I guess you will have to post the pics over in the GP forum, too



Bernd


----------



## uptheweight

definitely...glad to see there are others still out there that appreciate these guitars as much as i do....it threw me off to read that most prefer the music yo era...i would take either but i always wanted a newburg era....i LOVE the white binding on mine...i had one just like it before but it only had 1 hum...i have always loved the black with white binding and white with black binding (vito bratta style) the most...after seeing all the pics on this thread, i wanna buy more!..lol...thanks alot guys (sarcasm)


----------



## Be_eM

uptheweight said:


> ...it threw me off to read that most prefer the music yo era...i would take either but i always wanted a newburg era....



Well, this is a personal preference and - from my point of view - something related to the generations, also seen different in different forums. Steinie players who had their first headless during the late '80ies or '90ies prefer the Newburgh guitars. Most of the guys here are a "2nd generation" of Steinie fans, and the Music Yo instruments definitely have a more modern and up-to-date appeal. And since both are great instruments, the conclusion is:

Getting one or more of each definitely solves this problem


----------



## uptheweight

yeah, i totally agree...i just have a huge soft spot for binding 
i'll probably pick up another GR4U if i ever run across one cheap enough on ebay...R trem isn't as nice as the S or TT but i never had a problem with mine when i owned it...i always keep my trems locked anyways


----------



## B-lebs

It's been a while since I posted, but I'm eying a GR from Newburgh. 

I love my GM4s, but a little variety between the generations might be nice to have.


----------



## uptheweight

u talking about that blue one on ebay??...i have been looking at that one as well...needs a paint job unless you dont mind how chipped up it is


----------



## B-lebs

I wouldn't be averse to that. It's not too bad, and I've been looking for something to try my hand at finishing on. 

I'd start with a real junker before that, but it might be a nice project down the road.


----------



## uptheweight

i agree....def worth the price if the bidding stays low


----------



## 55699

Can't wait to see some nice pics of your new axe!!!
Cheers!!




uptheweight said:


> this is my first post in this forum but searching for steinbergers led me to this forum...i used to own an original GM model and one of the GR-4U models with the seymour ducans....i just landed a great deal on ebay and the guitar arrived today...i got a 1988 orginal newburg model GM4S with S trem, 15 packs of strings, and original steinberger strap for $1500 shipped...guitar is in excellent condition with minor scratches....the neck pcikup was professionally routed out making it a h/s/h now...plays great!...i sold my amp and my new mesa mark v gets here wednesday so i technically won't hear it through an amp until then...now im gonna be on a mission relearning cynic and white lion licks..lol...by the way, mine is the black model with white body binding..gorgeous!...i will post pics soon


----------



## simeonharris

hi there...kinda new around here and found this thread on a search. i love steinbergers and had a couple of custom headless guitars made a few years ago. the only one i've ever seen in real life was a white one with black binding in Chandler's music shop in Kew many years ago. it looked absolutely fabulous (didn't have the balls to play it at the time). in fact it looked just like this one that's on ebay right now...

ORIGINAL NEWBURGH STEINBERGER GM4S GUITAR EMG MUST SEE! grlc604 | eBay

there's also another on the bay with a quilt top - 

Steinberger GM7TA Quilt Top TransTrem Guitar, Brand New, Never Used, VERY NICE1! | eBay

loving the pics...keep em coming!

sim


----------



## Steinberger

Hey guys, I recently purchased a Steinberger GM7SA and wanted to get your opinions on it. The guy who sold it to me said he is the original owner & purchased it new from Musicians friend back in the 90's. Now the thing that interestes me is that it is a natural finish with no Steinberger logo. I went over this guitar with a fine tooth comb & it doesn't look at all refinished.

It has a flame maple top, S Trem (Pat Pend which means it's old), original 5 bolt graphite neck(no truss rod) and a serial number starting with TNxxxxx.

I have spoken to a friend of mine who's a Steinberger dealer & he said (without looking at the guitar) that in fact Steinberger went through so many changes at that time that it is possible that they made some without logos. 

Any opinions are appreciated

Here are some pics for you guys to view. Please let me know what you guys think


----------



## Be_eM

Steinberger said:


> Hey guys, I recently purchased a Steinberger GM7SA and wanted to get your opinions on it. The guy who sold it to me said he is the original owner & purchased it new from Musicians friend back in the 90's.




Hi,

a nice one 

From what I see everything (but the logo) looks like it should. Your friend is correct to some degree, Steinberger went through many changes. The only thing that I haven't heard before is that this guitar - without a logo - found a way to a regular dealer. However, it's not completely impossible. 

When the Steinberger production went to Nashville (and that's what your TN serial says), there have been a lot of experiments with bodies made by Gibson and other manufacturers. I own such a prototype myself (with a logo, and with the story behind it), but it's definitely possible that your guitar was not assembled for being sold in the first place. Maybe it was put together by an employee on his own, maybe it was just standing around, together with other guitars with bodies from several sources. Maybe it was assembled during the last days of Nashville production, with parts and bodies which were still available and stored somewhere. Maybe someone thought better finally putting it together, even without a logo who knows.

I'd say it smells like a real Steinie, from what I can see 

Bernd


----------



## OwenD

It certainly looks legit but I think someone sanded off the clear coat and logo. Don't think they would have officially sold a guitar without a logo.


----------



## Steinberger

Be_eM said:


> Hi,
> 
> Maybe it was put together by an employee on his own, maybe it was just standing around, together with other guitars with bodies from several sources. Maybe it was assembled during the last days of Nashville production, with parts and bodies which were still available and stored somewhere. Maybe someone thought better finally putting it together, even without a logo who knows.
> 
> I'd say it smells like a real Steinie, from what I can see
> 
> Bernd


 

That's kinda what I'm leaning towards. The dealer I spoke with said he's got a bass with the same history, Natural finish, no logo.
Either way it feels amazing & plays just as good as my Newburgh GM. I'm just concerned with it's value just in case I ever wanna sell it. Hoping it can fetch >$1600


----------



## Be_eM

Steinberger said:


> Hey guys, I recently purchased a Steinberger GM7SA





Steinberger said:


> I'm just concerned with it's value just in case I ever wanna sell it. Hoping it can fetch >$1600




That's something I almost never understand. Steinies are keepers. Why did you buy it, if you are already thinking about reselling it? Regarding the price: it's possible, but definitely not guaranteed to sell it at that price. At $1,600 you might already get some TT'd GMs as well but if somebody likes this one for what it is, he might pay that price. Knowing that the resale value is a pure gamble in this case.


----------



## Steinberger

Be_eM said:


> That's something I almost never understand. Steinies are keepers. Why did you buy it, if you are already thinking about reselling it? Regarding the price: it's possible, but definitely not guaranteed to sell it at that price. At $1,600 you might already get some TT'd GMs as well but if somebody likes this one for what it is, he might pay that price. Knowing that the resale value is a pure gamble in this case.



I totally get what your saying. & although I love Steinbergers more than any other guitar I don't consider many models collector's items. The original models. my GM's, L series etc are exceptions. My GR4's, this one, and my spirits not so much. Those are all expendable imho

Thanks for your opinion on the resale, I agree it might be sought after because it's rare. Who knows I might just use this as my main axe


----------



## Be_eM

Steinberger said:


> I don't consider many models collector's items. The original models. my GM's, L series etc are exceptions.




Regarding collector's items, I've got one that probably fits nicely into this thread 






Bernd


----------



## B-lebs

Be_eM said:


> Regarding collector's items, I've got one that probably fits nicely into this thread
> 
> 
> 
> Bernd


Double neck GM3t.


----------



## Steinberger

Be_eM said:


> Regarding collector's items, I've got one that probably fits nicely into this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bernd



That's the best girlfriend!!


----------



## MFB

You sir...are an awful, AWFUL man


----------



## Be_eM

Steinberger said:


> That's the best girlfriend!!





MFB said:


> You sir...are an awful, AWFUL man




Well, not more awful than Playboy's photographer. You guys probably enjoy something to drool over although these are all honorable ladies


----------



## naustin

These pictures are making me pretty jealous of you all. I have a Synapse, but a GM has been my dream guitar for the past 2 or 3 years, now that I have the money to buy one, I can never find any.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> These pictures are making me pretty jealous of you all. I have a Synapse, but a GM has been my dream guitar for the past 2 or 3 years, now that I have the money to buy one, I can never find any.




If you don't mind paying prices at the upper end of the range (but still reasonable in most cases), you always could ask Don Greenwald. He's selling all kinds of Steinies, and the guitars usually are in pretty good shape. 

Bernd


----------



## naustin

Thanks for that. The only person I know of who still has an assortment of Steins is Ed Roman, and I'd rather not pay large amounts of money for a GM that's been stripped for parts and replaced.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> The only person I know of who still has an assortment of Steins is Ed Roman



Ouch. You know Harry Potter and the rules regarding the name "Voldemort"? Same applies here. Don't mention this name, don't even think about it 
And don't expect any of those FrankenThings to be a Steinberger.


----------



## naustin

Got it.

Sent Don an email, hope the prices aren't too outrageous.


----------



## Justin Bailey

Awesome double neck, Bernd. Looks like something Steve Rothery would use, I know I've seen him with a black one just like it, gm3t and everything.


----------



## B-lebs

Be_eM said:


> Ouch. You know Harry Potter and the rules regarding the name "Voldemort"? Same applies here. Don't mention this name, don't even think about it
> And don't expect any of those FrankenThings to be a Steinberger.


"Like a Steinberger, but I replaced all those worn out, 80's, low tech parts with my brand new Hohner licensed parts! Trust me, it's better this way. I'm selling those old parts for $700 a pop, though, if you want to reinstall them." 

The man is a cretin.


----------



## Be_eM

Justin Bailey said:


> Awesome double neck, Bernd. Looks like something Steve Rothery would use, I know I've seen him with a black one just like it, gm3t and everything.




Hmmmm probably not this one. He has a GM 12/6. The red one is a 6/6 with the upper neck being a lined fretless neck 

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

B-lebs said:


> The man is a cretin.


----------



## naustin

I've been speaking with Don about the Steinbergers he has. Thanks for the referral Bernd, he definately seems to have good knowledge and a lot of good instruments. I just wish I hadn't settled for the Synapse a few years ago... not that it's bad by any means, it just would have saved me a lot of lusting after GMs.


----------



## Steinberger

Be_eM said:


> If you don't mind paying prices at the upper end of the range (but still reasonable in most cases), you always could ask Don Greenwald. He's selling all kinds of Steinies, and the guitars usually are in pretty good shape.
> 
> Bernd




Don has become a friend of mine through buying & selling Steinbergers. He's a great guy & will sell you a phenominal guitar that has been professionally set up. He used to own a music store in NY & he's a total pro!!!


----------



## ras1988

Hey guys I am switching my GM over to passive pickups any recommendations on a grounding point/procedure for the passive pickups? This may as well also be an advert for the older emg 85 and haz-labs unit that are coming out.


----------



## Be_eM

ras1988 said:


> Hey guys I am switching my GM over to passive pickups any recommendations on a grounding point/procedure for the passive pickups? This may as well also be an advert for the older emg 85 and haz-labs unit that are coming out.




Most GMs I've seen so far already have the electronics compartment shielded with copper foil, so everything you need is either already there or easy to prepare. It's possible that the ground wire to the trem is missing (usually not used or connected with active pickups), but all trems have a blank area on the bottom for exactly this purpose. The hole for the wire is probably already drilled.

Regarding the PU and the HazLabs board, send me a PM (including an e-mail address, if possible).

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

Steinberger said:


> Either way it feels amazing & plays just as good as my Newburgh GM. I'm just concerned with it's value just in case I ever wanna sell it. Hoping it can fetch >$1600




Looks like you've made your decision. Just FYI, as it looks your guitar was built in May 1998 and is logged as "GM7SAHR", I'm not sure what the "HR" stands for, but it designates the body. Still think it would have been a keeper, but hopefully it finds a good new home  

Bernd


----------



## kyo126

My first steinberger was a GR4R, then I bought a GM4S.....

I actually prefer the R-trem because the S-trem I got didn't want to stay in tune. Wasn't the string problem(I already put solder on each end).

BTW, I hate you guys whenever you guys bump this freaking thread because it makes me want another Steinberger...

I have a hole in my wallet now......

GM4T...........

Pictures tomorrow


----------



## naustin

Back up, back up

You saw this thread was bumped so you bought a GM4T?




Oops, I did it again


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> You saw this thread was bumped so you bought a GM4T?




Sounds like a valid reason 

Bump.


Bump.


B


----------



## naustin

kyo, if you find yourself with too many after all these bumps, feel free to ship one over to me.






In other news, looks like I might be buying a white bound Newburgh GM4T from Don Greenwald sometime in the near future. He has one standard, and one with a Roland GK unit installed. Both guitars are the same price, I'd rather know if the GK unit is internal or if it has that big ugly box mounted on the body.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> He has one standard, and one with a Roland GK unit installed. Both guitars are the same price, I'd rather know if the GK unit is internal or if it has that big ugly box mounted on the body.



This one?


----------



## naustin

Certainly seems like it.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> Certainly seems like it.



Originally had the same owner as my red doubleneck


----------



## naustin

Ah yeah, who would that be? I've noticed it can be a bit of a small world when it comes to things like this.


----------



## Be_eM

PM'd. I don't think this is necessarily a public information&#8230;


----------



## kyo126

naustin said:


> kyo, if you find yourself with too many after all these bumps, feel free to ship one over to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, looks like I might be buying a white bound Newburgh GM4T from Don Greenwald sometime in the near future. He has one standard, and one with a Roland GK unit installed. Both guitars are the same price, I'd rather know if the GK unit is internal or if it has that big ugly box mounted on the body.




Hahaha, I sold my last 2 Steinberger to pay for my luthier class. Now that it's over, and made some extra cash setting up and repairing for local musicians, I can finally pick up another Steinberger...This time of course an upgrade! 

I am going to pick it up in few hours.


Btw, my friend is also interested in this same one you are seeing.


----------



## Justin Bailey

Looks like JCustom is going to be producing Stein-a-likes as well as a trans trem variant. Extremely excited.


----------



## naustin

They've already started GL imitations, haven't they?

And can someone explain what Steinberger 'elites' are?


----------



## kyo126




----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> They've already started GL imitations, haven't they?



Visually a GL clone, technically more of a GL-B, due to the Moses neck and the wooden body. Other than the GL-B, this body is not massive. I think these are nice guitars, from what I can see on the videos Jaemin posted.

However, that "TransTrem" is still not more than an announcement, which has been around for quite some time. Not yet available, and still unknown when it will be. 



naustin said:


> And can someone explain what Steinberger 'elites' are?



Not exactly, but they are somewhat similar to the "Steinberger Pro" guitars. Having a TransTrem made some GMs a GM "Pro", but it's still just a GM with a TT. If I remember correctly, those "Elite" GLs were just branded for the Asian market (with a certain preference for fancy golden logos), but they aren't different to any "regular" GL. Just a marketing thing.

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

kyo126 said:


>



Yessss. Nice result of a bump, congratulations


----------



## kyo126

Be_eM said:


> Yessss. Nice result of a bump, congratulations



Guitar is in great condition, on scratches or dent. It's like brand new! Except used! haahah


----------



## tank

hi guys, just one question, can a original stein fit in a spirit body?


----------



## Be_eM

tank said:


> hi guys, just one question, can a original stein fit in a spirit body?



Modern physics don't allow two things being in the same place at the same time. That sounds more like a SciFi beaming accident 

However, if you want to know if a GM fits into a Spirit GU gig bag: yes 

Bernd


----------



## kyo126

tank said:


> hi guys, just one question, can a original stein fit in a spirit body?




Pickups? Yes..

Neck and Bridge(S/T trem) would need modification..


----------



## naustin

So, tomorrow morning I will be putting down some money for this sexy lady:






Near mint, barring the tiny freckle just left of the bridge. Incredibly well maintained for a guitar that's 20+ years old, as there's none of the characteristic finish crackle and yellowing. Buying it from Don Greenwald after all, so it's fully restored.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> So, tomorrow morning I will be putting down some money for this sexy lady




Great. A beauty. Let me guess... build date between 1988 and 1989?


----------



## naustin

Judging from the serial number, seems to be built in '89.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> Judging from the serial number, seems to be built in '89.



Bingo 

There is a number of GMs without the "TM" under the letter "R" at the end of the Steinberger logo. All I've seen so far have been built in either '88 or '89.

Bernd


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

I still find it weird they never did a 7 :/


----------



## Be_eM

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I still find it weird they never did a 7 :/



IMHO for the following reasons:

1. A Steinberger is already an instrument with some difficulities to sell. Conservative guitarists (which is the majority) miss the head. Means: small market. With 7 strings, even smaller market. Steinberger never has been a custom shop building one-offs.

2. The 7-strings hit the market when Steinberger already was out of business and development. During the Gibson/Nashville era (starting in about 1996) and the MusicYo era (starting in about 2002) no new Steinbergers were developed, just variations of the existing guitars with existing parts. Whatever Steinberger sold, it was developed until/before 1991, with the GS (headstock) being the last new concept. Not talking about the current line (Synapse/ZT3) here.

Bernd


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Good point, it just seems natural for such a progressive company


----------



## naustin

Be_eM said:


> Bingo
> 
> There is a number of GMs without the "TM" under the letter "R" at the end of the Steinberger logo. All I've seen so far have been built in either '88 or '89.
> 
> Bernd


Wow, you've got a pretty keen eye for detail.

She's all paid for, so in a few weeks I'll upload a few pics.


----------



## Be_eM

naustin said:


> She's all paid for, so in a few weeks I'll upload a few pics.



Congratulations 

BTW, if it's white until now, it will stay white. Those yellowish GMs with the crackles obviously have bodies from a different supplier, all built around 1990/1991. I own one of them, and a friend has one of them, too.

Bernd


----------



## naustin

After tearing out miles of newpapers and bubblewrap, I started to doubt that she was even in there.






The rest of the family


----------



## MFB

I think I'm gonna have my GR4R refinished into just a natural wood finish or maybe do it with bare wood and black burst around the edges; but then part of me wants to do like a Roadflare Red or nice Ocean Blue color. 

Anyone know reputable places (or even members on here) that redo guitars?


----------



## Goatchrist

Wow! Don Greenwald is cool, gonna buy me an replacement R-trem for my spirit. Also gonna buy a moses graphite neck which fits in a Spirit.


----------



## Shannon

I snagged me a flamed red Steinberger Spirit GU-7R w/ Bill Lawrence USA pickups last week. Great axe. I have a brass string adapter coming from Don @ HeadlessUSA so I can slap 12-60 gauge in B on there!


----------



## Goatchrist

Shannon said:


> I snagged me a flamed red Steinberger Spirit GU-7R w/ Bill Lawrence USA pickups last week. Great axe. I have a brass string adapter coming from Don @ HeadlessUSA so I can slap 12-60 gauge in B on there!



I have a flamed orange Spirit GU-7R, gonna mod it. New pickups, new trem(also from headlessUSA) and graphite neck. So excited!

BTW: here's my new GM-4S Steinys, are the best guitars in the world!
more pics in the NGD thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...d-carbon-alder-based-anatomy.html#post2822251


----------



## naustin

Wow, that's a great lookin' body


----------



## Justin Bailey

Someone could probably snag this pretty cheap:

Steinberger Electric Guitar Project Headless Spirit? Used for Repair | eBay

A project GR4. I wish I had the cash, I'd buy this and paint something abstract on the body ala Masvidal. Oh well, maybe one of you guys could snag it.


----------



## MFB

I figure I'd give you guys the heads up since this seems to be the group who'll appreciate it the most, but I'll probably be putting my GR4R up for sale if any of you guys are interested. I'd love to see it go to someone who loves Steinys, since I feel like selling it to someone whos never played them is a cruel joke since these arent being made anymore. 

If this is against any rules then I apologize mods, it was just easier than PMing all of the main contributors from here especially if they werent in the market to begin with


----------



## ras1988

Hey guys bit of a necro bump on this but I am having issues grounding my steinberger GM for use with passive pickups. Does anyone have experience grounding to a steinberger bridge, the finish or treatment they have going on doesn't really let you solder to it and I can't mount the ground wire to the bottom of the bridge because when the bridge is secured it just cut the conductor wire I was using. Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Be_eM

ras1988 said:


> Does anyone have experience grounding to a steinberger bridge, the finish or treatment they have going on doesn't really let you solder to it and I can't mount the ground wire to the bottom of the bridge because when the bridge is secured it just cut the conductor wire I was using. Any help is greatly appreciated.




Although I don't yet understand how you managed to cut the wire by locking the bridge: just put the blank wire below the trem base. It's clamped there between body and base. Steinberger trems usually have the black finish sanded off on the bottom, on the side closer to the electronics compartment. None of them ever have been soldered to ground.

Bernd


----------



## ras1988

I was using a solid 22 gauge conductor wire instead of the stranded wire.....yeah totally my fault. Thank you for the help I will be doing this soon.


----------



## MFB

A damn good condition GM7SA popped up in Boston for sale, dude's looking for $2K which I'm not sure where those ballpark in terms of price:condition

I think its on eBay as well for anyone who's interested


----------



## Be_eM

MFB said:


> A damn good condition GM7SA popped up in Boston for sale, dude's looking for $2K which I'm not sure where those ballpark in terms of price:condition
> 
> I think its on eBay as well for anyone who's interested




The guitar is nice and really in a good condition. However, his variable pricing ($2k - $2.5k) would be more appropriate for a GM7TA, not an SA. But if you're interested, it's on the GearPage Emporium as well, and there for $1.8k (plus PP fees). Better.


----------



## 55699

So does that mean say a GR4 with the seymour duncan pickups doesn't require the 9V battery?

Also could someone kindly gimme some feedback on this guitar?
Steinberger GM4 USA Electric Guitar w/ Gig Bag | eBay
I've also noticed there are 3 holes on the top. Is that how it should be?
What does it mean when it has a composite neck? Composite = Graphite?
Plus, anyone selling their steiny?

Thanks a million.


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> So does that mean say a GR4 with the seymour duncan pickups doesn't require the 9V battery?



Correct, as Steinies with passive pickups also don't have an active EQ board.



55699 said:


> Also could someone kindly gimme some feedback on this guitar?
> Steinberger GM4 USA Electric Guitar w/ Gig Bag | eBay
> I've also noticed there are 3 holes on the top. Is that how it should be?
> What does it mean when it has a composite neck? Composite = Graphite?
> Plus, anyone selling their steiny?



That's not a GM4, that's a Music Yo GR-4R, and thus the price could need some adjustment. However, I fail to see three holes. Where are they?

"Composite" is the way Steinberger always described their necks. As this is a Music Yo guitar, it has the Moses neck (with truss rod).

Bernd


----------



## 55699

Hi Bernd,

Correct me If I'm wrong. So are you saying this is an authentic Steiny?
It's just a bit pricy that's all?
You could see 'em 3 holes in the neck only pic. It's taken kinda sideways so you just need to look closer.
BTW I don't see the GM7SA for sale in Boston you've mentioned earlier..Is it sold?

Thanks.


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> Correct me If I'm wrong. So are you saying this is an authentic Steiny?
> It's just a bit pricy that's all?



Yep. Nothing wrong with it, and the price could even find a buyer I've seen GRs sell for more, however, I don't always understand what's happening on ebay 



55699 said:


> You could see 'em 3 holes in the neck only pic. It's taken kinda sideways so you just need to look closer.



Ah, OK these holes belong there, all Moses necks have them. Two for mounting the headpiece, one for truss rod access.



55699 said:


> BTW I don't see the GM7SA for sale in Boston you've mentioned earlier..Is it sold?



You should probably look at the dates of the postings you're referring to 

I've seen that guitar on ebay again afterwards, but way too expensive. He wanted $2,200 for it. I have no idea if it's sold meanwhile.

Bernd


----------



## 55699

Hi Bernd,

One more quick question...
Paramount Guitars: Instrument detail, Steinberger GR-4R
Why is the neck on this kinda like the ZT-3? I'm referring to the top part where the ball end sits. It looks like it has a longer saddle and the back of it isn't round off.

Thanks.


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> Why is the neck on this kinda like the ZT-3? I'm referring to the top part where the ball end sits. It looks like it has a longer saddle and the back of it isn't round off.




That's a Moses neck with the standard headpiece and an additional string adapter mounted on top. So the guy can use standard (single ball end) strings with it. The whole headpiece/string adapter combination could also be replaced by the JCustom combined headpiece (similar to the ZT3 headpiece).

(edit: wrong neck&#8230

Bernd


----------



## GuitarSteve

Hello, new to the forum. Steiny lover but not an owner yet. I was considering getting a Spirit by steinberger but after reading through this thread and other it seems most steiny lovers don't even consider that model to be a real berger. So I decided to go with something a bit higher end such as the GM.

I have noticed there are some fakes out there and some models that have been stripped and refitted with cheaper parts courtesy of he who shall not be named.

I was just wondering, are there some tell tell signs of the stripped or fake models.
I hope I could tell the difference between a fake and a real McCoy but it is not like that model is common.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Be_eM

GuitarSteve said:


> So I decided to go with something a bit higher end such as the GM.
> 
> I have noticed there are some fakes out there and some models that have been stripped and refitted with cheaper parts courtesy of he who shall not be named.




Getting a GM is a good decision, and asking for the fake indicators is a wise decision 

Most fakes - especially those from the (un)named source - are easy to identify:



There never was a model named "GM-xR", which designates a GM body (with a TransTrem or S-Trem routing) and an R-Trem. So if you see an auction or ad that contains "GM" and "R" on the same page, don't buy.
Completely original Steinies have a serial number on the neck (or body, on L types). This serial should match the timeframe in which the guitar was most likely built. Without further research it's often hard to confirm the match of serial number and model type, but - for example - it's a non matching pair if you have a GM with binding that has a serial in the low 100's (N0xxx) or a Nashville serial (TNxxxxx). Some guitars have the neck replaced (by a newer original neck or a Moses neck), and this must not be bad by definition. However, if you see a body with a routed truss rod access from the body/pickup side, don't buy, it's "him" again.
The STEINBERGER logos on "his" guitars are often crooked, not parallel to the center axis of the guitar/neck. Many appear to be too close to the lower body borders.
Sometimes the pickup and switch positions tell their own stories. Obviously a lot of early Steinie owners have converted their GM-1 and GM-5 guitars to a GM-2. You can indentify them by the distance of the bridge pickup to the bridge, and (sometimes) by the switch position.


An example for a guitar I'd not buy is right now here. The third pic clearly shows the TransTrem routing, which is not appropriately filled by the Hohner R-Trem. Body and neck look original (as far as I can tell), but the serial would give more information.


Bernd


----------



## GuitarSteve

Thanx, I appreciate the info. I am really looking for a new steiny and wanted to make sure I know what I am buying., I guess a GM or a GR. It is hard to find the differences and accurate price points for both models. So I am doing research here and on other places.
All I know is the GM is a prefered model and the GR, is more for those wil a more limited budget.
They also have different tremelo systems...IIRC.

I don't mind paying for a good guitar but I want to make sure I am getting a good guitar and a REAL steinberger.

You guys really have some amazing instruments...I would love to have almost any of them.

Edit, that page you linked to doesn't show up.
Again, I appreciate you taking the time to answer some questions.


----------



## MFB

> All I know is the GM is a prefered model and the GR, is more for those wil a more limited budget. They also have different tremelo systems...IIRC.



The GMs have a Trans-Trem or S trem while the GRs have the - surprise - R trem!  I think most of the GMs had a H/H or H/S/H setup while only some and the GR4s had H/S/S. I had a GR4 for a while and it was a great guitar and if you're like me and hate tremolos then locking it down makes the difference null. The neck is still the same composite neck with 24 frets.


----------



## Be_eM

GuitarSteve said:


> Edit, that page you linked to doesn't show up.




Hmmm that was just an ebay link. Try this one.

Regarding the differences between a GM and a GR: MFB said it all. Almost 

The pickup configuration is H-S-S on all GRs (which makes them a GR-4), while GMs came as GM-1 (H), GM-2 (H-H), GM-3 (S-S-S, rare), GM-4 (H-S-S), GM-5 (H-S), GM-7 (H-S-H). And: GMs almost exclusively came with active EMGs, while GRs only came with passive pickups (Seymour Duncan).

The bodies are also different, while most GMs had maple or alder bodies, most GRs had a mahogany body.

How you decide depends on the way you're going to use a trem. A TransTrem is an expensive toy, for the transposing function to work the trem needs to be in a good condition. If you need a trem just for the usual whammy effects, you'd better take an S-Trem or an R-Trem. The stability of an S-Trem is way better than that of an R-Trem, so this would be my choice. However, if an R-Trem fails, you may be able to easily get replacement parts (as it's still built and used on current Hohner guitars and Spirits). Getting S-Trem parts is way more difficult. But usually they don't break (although it may happen with any trem), so if you've got an S-Trem and take good care of it, it should work forever. The bearings are standardized replacement parts you can buy anywhere.

You also could install a fixed bridge on any Steinie, if you don't use trems at all.

Bernd


----------



## GuitarSteve

Be_eM said:


> Hmmm&#8230; that was just an ebay link. Try this one.
> 
> Regarding the differences between a GM and a GR: MFB said it all. Almost
> 
> The pickup configuration is H-S-S on all GRs (which makes them a GR-4), while GMs came as GM-1 (H), GM-2 (H-H), GM-3 (S-S-S, rare), GM-4 (H-S-S), GM-5 (H-S), GM-7 (H-S-H). And: GMs almost exclusively came with active EMGs, while GRs only came with passive pickups (Seymour Duncan).
> 
> The bodies are also different, while most GMs had maple or alder bodies, most GRs had a mahogany body.
> 
> How you decide depends on the way you're going to use a trem. A TransTrem is an expensive toy, for the transposing function to work the trem needs to be in a good condition. If you need a trem just for the usual whammy effects, you'd better take an S-Trem or an R-Trem. The stability of an S-Trem is way better than that of an R-Trem, so this would be my choice. However, if an R-Trem fails, you may be able to easily get replacement parts (as it's still built and used on current Hohner guitars and Spirits). Getting S-Trem parts is way more difficult. But usually they don't break (although it may happen with any trem), so if you've got an S-Trem and take good care of it, it should work forever. The bearings are standardized replacement parts you can buy anywhere.
> 
> You also could install a fixed bridge on any Steinie, if you don't use trems at all.
> 
> Bernd



I am not that set on a certain trem. Just prefer a quality unit. S or R trem is fine if it helps keep price more reasonable. I prefer the H-S-H configurations, so I guess that is a GM-7 according to your information. That being said, I don't think I would say no to the other configurations also!
Did any of the the GM 7 variations come with a S-Trem?

I figured there was no point wasting my money and time on a spirit or a new model. I like the older models so that is what I want.

Now just to find one...which seems to be the hard part.


----------



## Be_eM

GuitarSteve said:


> I prefer the H-S-H configurations, so I guess that is a GM-7 according to your information. That being said, I don't think I would say no to the other configurations also!
> Did any of the the GM 7 variations come with a S-Trem?




Yes, the GM-7S and GM-7SA were regular production models (introduced in 1991, as far as I know), only available in the un-bound version.

Bernd


----------



## GuitarSteve

OK, did any of them come stock with a R-trem? 
I appreciate your insights.


----------



## Be_eM

GuitarSteve said:


> OK, did any of them come stock with a R-trem?
> I appreciate your insights.




No. *Any* GM with an R-Trem is an E.R. creature (or some other owner's modification). *Only* the GR came with an R-Trem (and the Spirits of course).


----------



## JamesM

I will own a GM-5 one day!


----------



## MFB

Be_eM said:


> And: GMs almost exclusively came with active EMGs, while GRs only came with passive pickups (Seymour Duncan).
> 
> The bodies are also different, while most GMs had maple or alder bodies, most GRs had a mahogany body.



Ah, I thought the EMG thing was just the user's swapping out the original pickups for their preferred which happened to be EMGs but I guess not. At least I know the new Steinys (besides the ZT-3) come with EMGs!

As for the body wood, I never would've guessed that given the weight of my GR but it didn't help that I had assumed it was due to a graphite neck + lack of headstock combo


----------



## Be_eM

MFB said:


> Ah, I thought the EMG thing was just the user's swapping out the original pickups for their preferred which happened to be EMGs but I guess not.




Actually Steinberger and EMG have been working very closely together. I own a GL2 prototype, which contains an EMG 60 prototype


----------



## 55699

I've noticed for the unbound GMs there are some with or without the battery compartment. But I thought all the GMs with flame or quilt top are from the musicyo era which comes with the batt. compartment. Also the ones without the batt. compartment usually has a 5 bolt neck joint too. Could someone fill me in? 
Thx!!


----------



## Be_eM

55699 said:


> I've noticed for the unbound GMs there are some with or without the battery compartment. But I thought all the GMs with flame or quilt top are from the musicyo era which comes with the batt. compartment. Also the ones without the batt. compartment usually has a 5 bolt neck joint too. Could someone fill me in?




Unbound GMs have been made during the late Newburgh era (starting in 1991, solid colors only), the complete Nashville era, and the Music Yo era. The flamed and quilted tops were made during the Nashville and MY era, and yes, those without the battery compartment had a 5-bolt neck and were made in Nashville. 

Bernd


----------



## Börje

Does anyone have a username to a Musicradar.com since i cannot make an username there because the "register" link redirects me to frontpage of this site. I found there a Steinberger GM7SA for cheap price and i would like to contact the seller if it is still for sale. I have contacted maintenance about this problem but they havent yet ansvered.

thank you


----------



## Goatchrist

This isn't 100% on topic, but I think this is the best thread to ask this, since there are a lot of GMs with TTs in it.
I've got a question towards the TransTrem II.
When you have it on B-standard(3 steps down), are the strings very loose?
I'm imaging it must be horrible to play since it's recommended to use 0.009 or 0.010 string sets.

I'd love to buy a Steiny, it would be great if I could use it for my deathmetal band too, we play in B-standard so it would be the perfect instrument to switch in between bands and genres.

Thanks for your help buddies! 
EDIT: Question has been answered privatly by Bernd. Thank you.


----------



## 0 Xero 0

It's too bad Gibson bought Steinberger. I have a hunch that if FMIC bought the company, it'd be better, but who knows. I was in a local music shop recently during lunch and picked up a jem for the first time. I didn't plug it in, but I just wanted to see how it played. The neck shape didn't jive with me at all and scalloped frets are over-rated in my opinion. I saw a steinberger in the corner and had never played one of those before either. I didn't know what model it was, but I knew it wasn't the oar shape, so I was interested in it. I played it and it felt awesome! I love the neck shape and the overall feel of the instrument. I did some research and found out it is a GR-4 circa 91. Of course this is all subjective, but I figured the much more expensive jem would have blown the steiny out of the water as far as playability was concerned. I asked how much it was out of curiosity and it was more than I could afford at the time. The salesman informed me they have layaway... curses! If that guitar is for sale in a couple months I'm going to buy it for sure. I'd buy it tomorrow if I wasn't already buying an old kramer. Darned ol' GAS


----------



## simeonharris

just saw this - 1992 Steinberger GM-6S GM6S Guitar Headless USA | eBay

i don't want to cast any doubt on it's authenticity, but the distance between the humbucker and the bridge seems unusually large to me... and the bottom E string seems to be a long way from the edge of the fingerboard as well (although it might just be the angle the photograph was taken from)


----------



## Be_eM

simeonharris said:


> just saw this - 1992 Steinberger GM-6S GM6S Guitar Headless USA | eBay
> 
> i don't want to cast any doubt on it's authenticity, but the distance between the humbucker and the bridge seems unusually large to me...



Well, then it's up to me to do that. While a GM-6 exists in theory (the spec exists), I'm not aware of one actually being manufactured. This configuration (afaik) only was used on Brett Garsed's Steinberger GS.

The distance of the bridge humbucker is that of a GM-1 and GM-5. Given the toggle switch position which does NOT match that of a GM-5, I'd think this has been a GM-1 (coming without any switch), which has been modified to the GM-6 configuration. Also the routing for the neck SC seems too big, the standard routings for single coils (e.g. on a GM-4) are much smaller. If that actually WAS an original GM-6, it would belong to Don Greenwald's inventory and would be offered on ebay for at least $4,999 

Bernd


----------



## blastomorpha

Hi everyone, this my first post here.
I am really tempted to mary this little girl here

pic1 pic2 pic3

Serial is NI3932, or better N13932, and you can find her here
Confirmed Steinberger Serials

Conditions are quite good I think, just a little spot where the paint is gone above the neck pu (maybe you can see in pic3) and few minor scratches.
Frets seem new to me, neck is just a little dirty.

Never had a Steinberger nor tried before yesterday, but I think I'll love that neck and the TransTrem, so smooth compared to the other floating bridges I knew! Unfortunatly the current owner hasn't set it right to change the tuning but he installed the string adaptor (now it mounts 0.09 GHS if I remember right).

I'm asked 1000 which I think is a fair price, but have few doubts.
First one: will I be able to set the bridge all by my own or is it hard? I mean, harder than setting the springs for an Ibanez Edge?
Second one: it has passive Seymour Duncan pu, and I played it through a crappy Bosssomething and the distortion was crap. I'm going to play something like Cynic with it.
Third one: the owner has a ZT3 also, but is going to sell the GM4T which is a far superior guitar, as he said... well, this can mean nothing actually 

What do you think?
Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Hi everyone, this my first post here.
> I am really tempted to mary this little girl here
> 
> pic1 pic2 pic3
> 
> Serial is NI3932, or better N13932, and you can find her here
> Confirmed Steinberger Serials



Hi,

yes, I've checked and added the serial when I've first discovered the guitar on mercatino musicale 



blastomorpha said:


> Never had a Steinberger nor tried before yesterday, but I think I'll love that neck and the TransTrem, so smooth compared to the other floating bridges I knew! Unfortunatly the current owner hasn't set it right to change the tuning but he installed the string adaptor (now it mounts 0.09 GHS if I remember right).



Transposing will not work when using the string adapter at the same time. This function requires using calibrated TT strings, available from LaBella and D'Addario. When using these strings, it's possible to set up the TT for transposing, and yes, when doing it for the first time it will take a while. But you'll get faster after that 



blastomorpha said:


> I'm asked 1000 which I think is a fair price, but have few doubts.



The price is good. GMs with a TT usually go for 1.600 Euro at least. Especially in Italy there are a lot of GMs with (original) passive pickups, while the rest of the world mostly has GMs with EMGs. Don't let the other guitars on MM confuse you, about half of them are designated with the wrong model/type description and thus have wrong prices.



blastomorpha said:


> First one: will I be able to set the bridge all by my own or is it hard? I mean, harder than setting the springs for an Ibanez Edge?



I have no idea about the Ibanez Edge, so I cannot compare. It's not really "hard", it just requires you to understand what you're doing there, and it takes some time. And it may (in rare cases) fail due to a crappy pack of strings. Replacing them mostly solves it.



blastomorpha said:


> Second one: it has passive Seymour Duncan pu, and I played it through a crappy Bosssomething and the distortion was crap. I'm going to play something like Cynic with it.



When you buy it, it's your guitar, and you can "upgrade" whatever you want. But be aware that changing the original state of a Steinberger has an impact on its (resale) price. However, the price you buy it for is already great, so you won't lose anything.




blastomorpha said:


> Third one: the owner has a ZT3 also, but is going to sell the GM4T which is a far superior guitar, as he said... well, this can mean nothing actually



Hmmm I'd also say the GM is somewhat superior to the ZT3, and has a big advantage: you may be able to get spare or replacement parts for a GM. There's absolutely nothing you can buy for a ZT3 with the TT3. So if the TT3 on your guitar fails, you'll have a hard time getting this fixed. However, it's not really about a "better/worse" comparison, as these are simply different guitars in most aspects.

Bernd


----------



## flint757

Word on hard time with TT3 replacement parts. The adjustment screw on the 'jaw' for the low E string stripped on mine (shitty pot metal ) and I emailed Gibson about it. They told me to go to allparts.com which obviously won't have what I need. So I emailed again asking for a part number or something and the dude hasn't responded at all. If they aren't going to help service them they should release the damn schematics already so others could start making parts for them. I work at a fvcking metal fabrication shop; I could make one faster than they respond.  It's not a huge deal though, as I can just lower the string tension and turn it by hand however inconvenient it may be. 

On another note, I put medium gauge strings on it and it is in tune and intonated just fine. Not a calibrated set either. I can go through the 5 steps and it stay in tune and is properly intonated in the standard position. All I needed to do was adjust the jaw screws, saddles and truss rod. Maybe that is do to the TT3's redesign?


----------



## Be_eM

flint757 said:


> Word on hard time with TT3 replacement parts. The adjustment screw on the 'jaw' for the low E string stripped on mine (shitty pot metal ) and I emailed Gibson about it. They told me to go to allparts.com



Apparently Gibson never put any TT3 parts in stock (in contrast to some Synapse parts which they offer(ed). I assume if somebody had a TT3 problem during the warranty period, he simply got a new guitar. I've been behind those parts for years now, but here in Europe we're farther away from them than anybody. However, it doesn't seem to be better in USA either.



flint757 said:


> On another note, I put medium gauge strings on it and it is in tune and intonated just fine. Not a calibrated set either. I can go through the 5 steps and it stay in tune and is properly intonated in the standard position. All I needed to do was adjust the jaw screws, saddles and truss rod. Maybe that is do to the TT3's redesign?



Setting up transposing on a TT3 is a little bit easier, because Ned has changed the transposing range. Now it's two half steps up and down. With a TT2 it was two full steps and a half step down, and one and a half step up. Much more difficult to control.

Bernd


----------



## flint757

Be_eM said:


> Apparently Gibson never put any TT3 parts in stock (in contrast to some Synapse parts which they offer(ed). I assume if somebody had a TT3 problem during the warranty period, he simply got a new guitar. I've been behind those parts for years now, but here in Europe we're farther away from them than anybody. However, it doesn't seem to be better in USA either.



That is absolutely retarded that they wouldn't stock spare parts. Mine I bought second hand so I'm SOL I suppose. All well...

I may take it apart at some point and see what kind of parts I'm looking at. If the piece that has stripped is somewhat generic I may be able to find a suitable replacement or fabricate something.

Can the TT3 be swapped with the TT2?



Be_eM said:


> Setting up transposing on a TT3 is a little bit easier, because Ned has changed the transposing range. Now it's two half steps up and down. With a TT2 it was two full steps and a half step down, and one and a half step up. Much more difficult to control.



Yeah I imagine if I could lock mine much lower it'd be next to impossible for it to hold a good tuning. I'm just glad it worked otherwise I'd be out $20 dollars and some time.


----------



## JPMike

Anyone want a GM7SA??


----------



## blastomorpha

Be_eM said:


> Transposing will not work when using the string adapter at the same time. This function requires using calibrated TT strings, available from LaBella and D'Addario. When using these strings, it's possible to set up the TT for transposing, and yes, when doing it for the first time it will take a while. But you'll get faster after that



Thanks for the reply.
I hope that removing the adapter will be easy as I do want to be able to tranpose.
When trasposed, will the bridge work as in standard tuning? And as a guy already asked, aren't the string too floppy when we are tuned in C for example?



Be_eM said:


> I have no idea about the Ibanez Edge, so I cannot compare. It's not really "hard", it just requires you to understand what you're doing there, and it takes some time. And it may (in rare cases) fail due to a crappy pack of strings. Replacing them mostly solves it.



Where can I find some good instructions about the bridge setting?



Be_eM said:


> However, it's not really about a "better/worse" comparison, as these are simply different guitars in most aspects.



Just to know, which are these aspects you say?


----------



## Be_eM

flint757 said:


> That is absolutely retarded ...



We're talking about Gibson owning Steinberger. What did you expect? 



flint757 said:


> I may take it apart at some point and see what kind of parts I'm looking at. If the piece that has stripped is somewhat generic I may be able to find a suitable replacement or fabricate something.



Once there is an increased demand, people will probably start providing the most critical parts. One of the problems: I've tried to get a spare TT3 just for understanding, taking it apart, taking dimensions and "re-engineer" that trem or parts of it. Impossible to get one. And I didn't want to disassemble my one and only ZT3, which is currently working fine.



flint757 said:


> Can the TT3 be swapped with the TT2?



No way. Totally different dimensions and principles.


----------



## flint757

Be_eM said:


> We're talking about Gibson owning Steinberger. What did you expect?



Good point.



Be_eM said:


> Once there is an increased demand, people will probably start providing the most critical parts. One of the problems: I've tried to get a spare TT3 just for understanding, taking it apart, taking dimensions and "re-engineer" that trem or parts of it. Impossible to get one. And I didn't want to disassemble my one and only ZT3, which is currently working fine.



Well they are discontinued so demand can't go up more than it has unless you mean more people having trouble with their guitars. I noticed how hard they are to get a hold of.

At the moment only the one screw is messed up on the bridge so that is about as far as I'll bother with disassembling.



Be_eM said:


> No way. Totally different dimensions and principles.



Well damn.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I hope that removing the adapter will be easy as I do want to be able to tranpose.



That's easy. The adapter is not mounted anywhere, it's just held by the tension of the strings. Remove the strings, open the screws on the adapter holding the upper end of the strings, that's it.



blastomorpha said:


> When trasposed, will the bridge work as in standard tuning? And as a guy already asked, aren't the string too floppy when we are tuned in C for example?



When locked in a transposed position, it's just like having a downtuned guitar with a fixed bridge. And yes, down to C makes strings very floppy. That's the way it is, so a transtrem guitar is not a perfect replacement for a regular downtuned guitar with extra heavy strings for that purpose. It's more "I can quickly change the pitch for a single song which would require another guitar otherwise".





blastomorpha said:


> Where can I find some good instructions about the bridge setting?



Here is all you need 




blastomorpha said:


> Just to know, which are these aspects you say?



Composite neck vs. wooden neck with a carbon fiber channel, TT2 vs. TT3, (mostly) active EMGs, some with HazLabs EQ in various configurations vs. two passive Gibson humbuckers with passive tone control

The ZT3 feels and sounds different, however, I also like it. I just wouldn't know how to compare those two guitars. 

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

flint757 said:


> Well they are discontinued so demand can't go up more than it has unless you mean more people having trouble with their guitars.



Yep, that's what I mean. Right now most TT3s out there do what they're supposed to do. But  as you have noticed  there are some weak points using cheap or soft metals. They *will* need replacements one day. Most likely after the warranty period for the last batch is over


----------



## blastomorpha

Can anyone compare T-Trem, S-Trem and Floyd Rose/Ibanez bridges about stiffness?
As I wrote earlier here, I tried ony the T-Trem and I was astonished by its smoothness, compared to the Edge installed on my RG550.

As I'm torn beetween two Steinberger, the one with the T-Trem I posted and another with S-Trem which I can not try before buy, I'd like to know if the two bridges feel similar, apart from the advanced features of T-Trem.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> As I'm torn beetween two Steinberger, the one with the T-Trem I posted and another with S-Trem which I can not try before buy, I'd like to know if the two bridges feel similar, apart from the advanced features of T-Trem.




Basically the S-Trem is a T-Trem without transposing. There may be minor differences due to the spring that's used, but these differences are also possible between two T-Trems. Spring length has varied over the time of production.

Both trems use roller bearings, the T-Trem has an angled axis due to the transposing feature, and the S-Trem has a straight axis. The locking mechanism is different (transposing arm on the TT, a lever on the back on the ST). That's it for the differences.


----------



## blastomorpha

About the bearings, I read that they wear quickly.
Is it hard to find the replacements and swap the old for the new ones?


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> About the bearings, I read that they wear quickly.
> Is it hard to find the replacements and swap the old for the new ones?




No, they aren't hard to find, those are standardized bearings and pins. In case you don't find them anywhere near you, you can even get them from me. I've stocked some high quality SKF bearings and stainless steel pins 

Edit: they don't wear quickly. It's just that they have never been replaced on most Steinbergers you buy used, so you might have bearings that are up to 25 years old. In the beginning they've even used non-sealed versions.

Bernd


----------



## 0 Xero 0

If this has been brought up before, I apologize. I bought the GR-4 I mentioned above and plan on doing a demo and full-fledged NGD with it as soon as I get some new strings on it. I put 10-46s on their and they pull up on the bridge too much. Is there any way to put heavier strings on it for E-standard tuning without changing a trem spring or something? If not, I'll deal with it. I don't have a trem arm for it, so I play with the bridge locked and I don't like how light the strings feel with it locked.


----------



## blastomorpha

0 Xero 0 said:


> If this has been brought up before, I apologize. I bought the GR-4 I mentioned above and plan on doing a demo and full-fledged NGD with it as soon as I get some new strings on it. I put 10-46s on their and they pull up on the bridge too much. Is there any way to put heavier strings on it for E-standard tuning without changing a trem spring or something? If not, I'll deal with it. I don't have a trem arm for it, so I play with the bridge locked and I don't like how light the strings feel with it locked.



I'm interested also, as I like .10s or .11s on my guitars.


----------



## Be_eM

0 Xero 0 said:


> I put 10-46s on their and they pull up on the bridge too much. Is there any way to put heavier strings on it for E-standard tuning without changing a trem spring or something?




I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but: are you aware of the "master tuning knob" (sticking out at the back, below the bridge) and what it does? The usual procedure is:

1. lock the trem for putting on new strings
2. tune to pitch
3. unlock the trem
4. turn the master tuning knob to increase (cw) or decrease (ccw) spring tension, until the locked and unlocked trem position is identical

This should work with .010s without a problem. Not sure about .011s (standard tuning?), it could be a good idea to get a stronger spring, because of the higher compression required to compensate the string tension.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> I'm interested also, as I like .10s or .11s on my guitars.



The same is true for the TransTrem and S-Trem. Using .010s is absolutely within the normal range, for .011s there is a stronger TransTrem replacement spring some guy has manufactured a couple of years ago (he sells them for $20 each). In case you need one, I've already imported a couple of them, so you wouldn't need to order in USA with shipping costs almost as high as the parts price


----------



## blastomorpha

Be_eM said:


> The same is true for the TransTrem and S-Trem. Using .010s is absolutely within the normal range, for .011s there is a stronger TransTrem replacement spring some guy has manufactured a couple of years ago (he sells them for $20 each). In case you need one, I've already imported a couple of them, so you wouldn't need to order in USA with shipping costs almost as high as the parts price



Thanks for the info.
I'm going to pick up _that_ guitar on this saturday, it has brend new .009s now so I'll wait a bit before trying a higher gauge.

One thing I don't understand about the S-Trem is about chords, will the strings stay in tune using the tremolo, like with a TransTrem?
I have read different opinions about it, a couple of posts here too, but many people who said that chords will not stay tuned often use the string adapter.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> One thing I don't understand about the S-Trem is about chords, will the strings stay in tune using the tremolo, like with a TransTrem?
> I have read different opinions about it, a couple of posts here too, but many people who said that chords will not stay tuned often use the string adapter.




Well, "opinions" won't help here 

The principle of the TransTrem is keeping strings in correct relative tune to each other while using the trem. When playing an E minor chord and bending down a whole step, you hear a D minor chord. This function is exclusive to the TT, so no other trem does this. This is the reason for the TT being so expensive.

Means: on the S-Trem you will get the same relative detuning of strings like on any other Trem (FR, R-Trem, whatever). Use it for whammying during weedly-weedly solos, or for slight vibrato over played chords. But don't expect chords to stay intact.


----------



## blastomorpha

Ok, now it's clear 

About the string adapter, I know the disadvantages on a T-T equipped guitar where I need calibrated strings to get the best outof it, but with a S-T?


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Ok, now it's clear
> 
> About the string adapter, I know the disadvantages on a T-T equipped guitar where I need calibrated strings to get the best outof it, but with a S-T?




No problem using a string adapter with an S-Trem or R-Trem.


----------



## blastomorpha

Always loved the GP body, and this one looks beautiful to me:
1986 STEINBERGER GP2T ORIGINAL CREME FINISH FULLY RESTORED | eBay

If it had EMGs...


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Always loved the GP body, and this one looks beautiful to me:
> 1986 STEINBERGER GP2T ORIGINAL CREME FINISH FULLY RESTORED | eBay
> 
> If it had EMGs...




Yes, it's nice. You should be aware, though, that the price - to a large degree - reflects the high restoration costs of $1,200. GPs, even active ones, usually go cheaper than their GM counterparts. The other one currently on MM has a ridiculous price don't know on which planet that seller lives 

Bernd


----------



## blastomorpha

You're right and after the rumors about production shutting down, I expect that everything marked with the Steinbeger logo will become even pricer


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> You're right and after the rumors about production shutting down, I expect that everything marked with the Steinbeger logo will become even pricer




Steinberger, or better Epiphone, denies that production has ended. According to them both the Synapses and the ZT3 are still manufactured and delivered. This is not what the dealers actually see, though.

Bernd


----------



## flint757

Yeah, the zt3 is out of stock EVERYWHERE otherwise I wouldn't have bought it used. Me thinks they are full of shit.


----------



## BlackStar7

Be_eM said:


> Steinberger, or better Epiphone, denies that production has ended. According to them both the Synapses and the ZT3 are still manufactured and delivered. This is not what the dealers actually see, though.
> 
> Bernd



Why is Gibson/Epiphone so freaking weird about this brand? Everything they've done with Steinberger in recent history makes little sense to me, particularly shuttering the GM series and now apparently burying the rest of the brand with it. Perhaps I'm overestimating the demand for these guitars (the used market can be very peculiar), but doesn't it seem like there's still significant enthusiasm?


----------



## Be_eM

BlackStar7 said:


> Perhaps I'm overestimating the demand for these guitars (the used market can be very peculiar), but doesn't it seem like there's still significant enthusiasm?




What do you think what the niche is in which builders like Strandberg are so successful? I do believe there's a lot of interest in headless guitars.


----------



## blastomorpha

Welcome me to the club:







Great, great guitar, looks and play fantastic. I just have to get used to the tremolo arm after years of an Ibanez-style bridge.


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Welcome me to the club:



Welcome to the club 
A beauty, congratulations!

Bernd


----------



## blastomorpha

Thanks Bernd, you've been so helpful 

I'm going to buy some new strings, the 0.09s now on the guitar feel too floppy so I'd like 0.10s.
Since the guitar has a S-Trem I don't need calibrated strings, right? So I was thinking about getting the GHS Boomers as they are cheaper than D'Addario (which I never liked that much, Dean Markley's Blue Steel fan here). 
Never tried that brand, what do you think about them?


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Since the guitar has a S-Trem I don't need calibrated strings, right? So I was thinking about getting the GHS Boomers as they are cheaper than D'Addario (which I never liked that much, Dean Markley's Blue Steel fan here).
> Never tried that brand, what do you think about them?




Correct, you don't need calibrated strings. I haven't played GHS strings myself, I've only heard that they are not a good choice on TransTrems . But since you don't need that, I'd say give it a try 

Bernd


----------



## 0 Xero 0

Be_eM said:


> I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but: are you aware of the "master tuning knob" (sticking out at the back, below the bridge) and what it does? The usual procedure is:
> 
> 1. lock the trem for putting on new strings
> 2. tune to pitch
> 3. unlock the trem
> 4. turn the master tuning knob to increase (cw) or decrease (ccw) spring tension, until the locked and unlocked trem position is identical
> 
> This should work with .010s without a problem. Not sure about .011s (standard tuning?), it could be a good idea to get a stronger spring, because of the higher compression required to compensate the string tension.



I did all of those things. I had the trem spring as tight as it would go and the bridge still pulled up. I just ended up putting 9s back on it. Does anyone know where to get a stiffer spring?


----------



## Be_eM

0 Xero 0 said:


> I did all of those things. I had the trem spring as tight as it would go and the bridge still pulled up. I just ended up putting 9s back on it. Does anyone know where to get a stiffer spring?




Well, this is not a normal behavior. Some old springs were a little bit short compared to the springs used later, so if you've got one of those short springs, there might be not enough "headroom" to adjust it properly. But even with those short springs the trem shouldn't be pulled up by .010s. Maybe your trem already has a replacement spring that's too soft.

Anyway, here are the spring sources:

- for using .011s, you need a stronger than the standard spring. In this article you'll find a guy named Lou Larson mentioned, including his e-mail address. He sells these stronger springs.

- for using .010s and below, a regular spring should usually work. You can get them here.

Bernd


----------



## Tymon

Be_eM said:


> Steinberger, or better Epiphone, denies that production has ended. According to them both the Synapses and the ZT3 are still manufactured and delivered. This is not what the dealers actually see, though.
> 
> Bernd



Yeah it's strange how they run the Steinberger brand. Even as an endorsee I didn't get straight answers to a lot of questions I had. Especially that one question we all wonder about: why don't they bring back the GM series?! Still a mystery to me...


----------



## yingmin

Guitar Center has a Nashville GM4T in blue up for $750. I called to check on the condition, and it was returned because some part of the bridge is cracked. Still, $750 is a good price, and you can probably get it fixed by Peekamoose or Headless USA and still come out ahead.


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Guitar Center has a Nashville GM4T in blue up for $750. I called to check on the condition, and it was returned because some part of the bridge is cracked. Still, $750 is a good price, and you can probably get it fixed by Peekamoose or Headless USA and still come out ahead.



Depends on which part is cracked. On a TT, there's only one part that comes to mind (the trem arm holder on the pivot base), and if it is this one, you're f###ed. Not available as a spare part anywhere, and you can't even lock the trem to use it as a fixed bridge. Requires a new TT or ST (also hardly available), or an XS trem as an alternative. However, pics or more details would help


----------



## yingmin

I didn't inquire any further after the guy said that some part was cracked.


----------



## Mushin80

Hello,

first time poster here after noticing that the interview with Paul Masvidal on this very site mentioned my Steinberger "replica" of his own (!!!). That was ages ago when I had this Steiny commissioned to look like Paul's legendary "marbleized" GM4T, and eventually showed him the pictures... 

I bought it through the excellent but now defunct East Coast Music Mall, back in 1999. The guitar was used, but in super mint condition. Originally it was green, the paint-job was done by the custom department at ECMM, don't remember the name of the guy who did it.
The serial# is N13698, so I suppose still Newburgh production, probably dating 1991-1992? Could never find out the exact date.

Awesome sound, despite being a Steiny loaded with EMG's, it sounds surprisingly warm and organic. 

Now, I'm actually thinking of selling it, to whomever may be truly interested and at the right price.
It's still in excellent condition; there is a bit of wear on the TransTrem, palm side up, needs some cleaning. Body is absolutely immaculate, the paint-job made it really indestructible and dent-repellant (and quite heavier as well).
The neck is immaculate too, the fingerboard needs some cleaning and fretwork is still excellent for such an old guitar.
Just PM me if you're interested - I can send better pictures and give more details.


----------



## Be_eM

Mushin80 said:


> Originally it was green, the paint-job was done by the custom department at ECMM, don't remember the name of the guy who did it.
> The serial# is N13698, so I suppose still Newburgh production, probably dating 1991-1992? Could never find out the exact date.




October 14, 1991. But color is originally listed as black. It also should have an active EQ, does it? Looks *very* cool 

Bernd


----------



## Mushin80

Be_eM said:


> October 14, 1991. But color is originally listed as black. It also should have an active EQ, does it? Looks *very* cool
> 
> Bernd



Hey Bernd,

thanks for the date! Awesome!
Black? I really thought I remembered the picture of the original before the paint-job was green... but perhaps I remember wrong, it was 14 years ago.

Yea, it's got active EQ, it's in the volume knob. But I rarely activate it as the guitar sounds so warm and nice without it being activated.


----------



## Be_eM

Mushin80 said:


> thanks for the date! Awesome!



You're welcome 



Mushin80 said:


> Black? I really thought I remembered the picture of the original before the paint-job was green... but perhaps I remember wrong, it was 14 years ago.



At least that's how it was listed. But especially with black guitars the environment can often mislead the viewer&#8230; I've seen a couple of pics of black guitars reflecting grass, a wallpaper or a curtain, looking perfectly green.




Mushin80 said:


> Yea, it's got active EQ, it's in the volume knob. But I rarely activate it as the guitar sounds so warm and nice without it being activated.



It should be in the tone knob. I rarely use the EQs either, but they're very nice for some special sounds.

Bernd


----------



## Mushin80

Be_eM said:


> It should be in the tone knob. I rarely use the EQs either, but they're very nice for some special sounds.
> 
> Bernd



Hah, yes, sorry I meant to write the tone knob... 

Thanks again for the date and I'm glad you like it.


----------



## blastomorpha

Still having some trouble with the S-Trem, expecially when I try to raise the picth with quick or little movements, like semitones or even less.
Often I feel a little play (I don't know if it is the correct word), so that the mechanical movement does not instantly translate in a pitch change.
Then the bar gets looser and I have to tighten the nut again.

I have to admit that the Floyd-like trems I tried were better in this aspect.


----------



## blastomorpha

Maybe a little of plumber tape around the screw threads?


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> Still having some trouble with the S-Trem, expecially when I try to raise the picth with quick or little movements, like semitones or even less.
> Often I feel a little play (I don't know if it is the correct word), so that the mechanical movement does not instantly translate in a pitch change.
> Then the bar gets looser and I have to tighten the nut again.



There shouldn't be any play. At least there is no play on my S-Trem, and slightly touching the trem bar causes a slight pitch change as expected. Also the bar shouldn't get loose. Is the thread on the trem bar OK? And do you notice any other places with play (e.g. the bearings)?

Bernd


----------



## blastomorpha

Be_eM said:


> There shouldn't be any play. At least there is no play on my S-Trem, and slightly touching the trem bar causes a slight pitch change as expected. Also the bar shouldn't get loose. Is the thread on the trem bar OK? And do you notice any other places with play (e.g. the bearings)?
> 
> Bernd



As I said, if I just push down the bar there's no problem, but if I pull up and the nut is a bit loose so that I can move the bar away from the strings for example, very often it gets loose, you can even hear a noise like *STACK* and there's a bit of play too.
No issue at all when the arm adjustment nut is all tightened so the bar holds its position, but it is not very usable for me that way


----------



## Be_eM

blastomorpha said:


> As I said, if I just push down the bar there's no problem, but if I pull up and the nut is a bit loose so that I can move the bar away from the strings for example, very often it gets loose, you can even hear a noise like *STACK* and there's a bit of play too.
> No issue at all when the arm adjustment nut is all tightened so the bar holds its position, but it is not very usable for me that way



Well, the bar is designed to be used with the nut tightly fixed. What you describe here sounds like the whole bar jumps out by one single step (of the thread). Did you check the bar for potential damage on the threads?

Bernd


----------



## pstar

where r they at


----------



## Be_eM

pstar said:


> where r they at


----------



## Be_eM

There's no thread more appropriate than this one to post this information:

PSA for those who might be interested in buying a Steinberger GM: there's a whole collection for sale in Europe right now, so this might be a chance for those who usually live on the wrong side of the big pond 

I'm not involved in this sale (just providing the page for showing the guitars), you can get all info, pics and the e-mail of the seller here:

Steinberger guitars for sale

Bernd


----------



## Moto54

Hi all, 
serial comes from this guitar, described on Ebay as a GM4R, but its obviously a GR. So this guitar is probably going back (when it gets here), but does this serial indicate a particular year? What would a decent price be for this guitar in your opinion(s)? The frets are supposedly very very good but the rest is a only fair/good. (it gets here on tuesday) Returning the guitar is not an issue at all, I mostly just want to get some value opinion before sending it back.. maybe make the dude a counter offer or whatever.


----------



## Be_eM

Made in 1990 or 1991, and definitely a stock GR-4. This one was around $1,250, correct? Too much, although GRs may reach this price point. But for that they need to be in flawless condition, which this one is not. IMHO it should be below $1k. But you should really be happy that it is not a GM-4R. Such a guitar doesn't exist, or better: it only exists as Ed Roman bastard, who butchered GM bodies (with a TT routing) to take up the cheaper R-Trem. These guitars have an irreversibly damaged body.


----------



## Moto54

Be_eM said:


> Made in 1990 or 1991, and definitely a stock GR-4. This one was around $1,250, correct? Too much, although GRs may reach this price point. But for that they need to be in flawless condition, which this one is not. IMHO it should be below $1k. But you should really be happy that it is not a GM-4R. Such a guitar doesn't exist, or better: it only exists as Ed Roman bastard, who butchered GM bodies (with a TT routing) to take up the cheaper R-Trem. These guitars have an irreversibly damaged body.



I knew I could count on you. When I emailed the guy about having the wrong description on his guitar he right away offered to pay return shipping, so, this little adventure will not cost me a pfennig. And you are correct about the listing in question. I already have a very good guitar (Vigier) so my enthusiasm for Steinberger will live or die with how the neck feels (I've never held one!) So this overpriced 'mule' that is on its way will serve a strong purpose before I send it back to where it came from. Either it will break my fascination or it will inspire me to spend lots more and get a more dreamy example.

Check your PM's. And thanks a million. Maximilian.


----------



## yingmin

GM7TA just posted on GC's used site for $1200, no picture yet. It's at Totowa, New Jersey, so if anyone's interested, call them early tomorrow.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Bringing this one back.
Anyone got a Steinberger they'd be willing to sell? (Actual Steinberger or a Spirit model?)


----------



## Be_eM

Wings of Obsidian said:


> (Actual Steinberger or a Spirit model?)



So you're looking for a $300 guitar or a $3,000 guitar and anything in between, whatever may come? 

Some more details might help


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Be_eM said:


> So you're looking for a $300 guitar or a $3,000 guitar and anything in between, whatever may come?
> 
> Some more details might help&#8230;



Oops, sorry mate. Should've specified. 

I just want a little something to mod and experiment with. So no of the old-school 80s $2,000-$3,000 ones please. (Haha!)
But if some did come around the $1K range (midline?) I'd swing it. But right now, since I'll be modding it and messing around, maybe something cheap would be more suitable or beneficial?


----------



## Be_eM

Wings of Obsidian said:


> But right now, since I'll be modding it and messing around, maybe something cheap would be more suitable or beneficial?



You're looking for a Spirit then. Modding an original Steinberger (even those in the $1k range like the GR-4) immediately ruins the value. And the"current" product line (Synapse) is a bad target for modding, as you'll find nothing standard on them. Not to forget that it's almost impossible to find original replacement parts for them.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Be_eM said:


> You're looking for a Spirit then. Modding an original Steinberger (even those in the $1k range like the GR-4) immediately ruins the value. And the "current" product line (Synapse) is a bad target for modding, as you'll find nothing standard on them. Not to forget that it's almost impossible to find original replacement parts for them.



You addressed both of my concerns that I already had in mind. 
I'm just browsing for like a little GU-7R.


----------



## yingmin

I have a GU7R in amber that I've been thinking about selling, as well as a spare body that somebody carved into a Klein-like shape.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

yingmin said:


> I have a GU7R in amber that I've been thinking about selling, as well as a spare body that somebody carved into a Klein-like shape.



If you are ever interested, my friend... A potential deal to help a fledgling player would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Any other cool offers from anyone?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Also, one more question: I have a guy who is offering to sell my the neck off (what I'm being told is) a Newburgh GR4.

What would be a fair price/offer? Also, would it be better to just invest in a Moses graphite neck for a Steinberg if the price of the original/other is too high?


----------



## Be_eM

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Also, one more question: I have a guy who is offering to sell my the neck off (what I'm being told is) a Newburgh GR4.
> 
> What would be a fair price/offer? Also, would it be better to just invest in a Moses graphite neck for a Steinberg if the price of the original/other is too high?



Original Newburgh/Nashville necks usually can be found for prices between $450 to $650 (the last one on ebay I've seen). I've recently bought a couple of them for about $550 each. A new Moses neck including the Moses headpiece is $400. 

When buying a Newburgh neck, you are limited to finding a Newburgh or Nashville 5-bolt body. With a Moses neck (sold undrilled) you could install it on either 5-bolt or the later 4-bolt Music Yo bodies. Currently there's an ugly self-painted GR4 body + neck on ebay, for $500. However, you'll need a new R-Trem or a JCustom FX bridge ($130) and all the electronics/pickups to make a guitar out of that.

Bernd


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

Be_eM said:


> Original Newburgh/Nashville necks usually can be found for prices between $450 to $650 (the last one on ebay I've seen). I've recently bought a couple of them for about $550 each. A new Moses neck including the Moses headpiece is $400.
> 
> When buying a Newburgh neck, you are limited to finding a Newburgh or Nashville 5-bolt body. With a Moses neck (sold undrilled) you could install it on either 5-bolt or the later 4-bolt Music Yo bodies. Currently there's an ugly self-painted GR4 body + neck on ebay, for $500. However, you'll need a new R-Trem or a JCustom FX bridge ($130) and all the electronics/pickups to make a guitar out of that.
> 
> Bernd



Thanks a ton, Bernd! The info is greatly appreciated!


----------



## The Sleeper

It's been quite a while since I've been active here & I've just stumbled on this thread so I thought I'd chime in. I idiotically, moronically & utterly stupidly sold my old white Newburgh GM7TA 15yrs ago I've always loved the GM Steiny, but parts & strings were a pain to source here in Oz as Music shops here simply don't know about them or stock them so they had to be special ordered. That always took weeks & months of waiting to get my guitar back playing again. I simply found myself using my Kramer & Ibanez guitars and the Steiny was not being used so bit my lip & sold it...recently I've found myself REALLY missing having a Steiny...they really don't pop up much in Australia at all. one did a couple of weeks ago & well, here she is and I'm all in love again...'97 Nashville GM4T with EMG 85 & SA flame top in cherryburst. Thanks to places like HeadlessUSA I can order things in bulk & have spares so I can do the work on her myself...I'm going to be buried with this guitar. For what it's worth from what I remember my GM7 had a maple body...this maple top/alder body GM sounds heaps warmer & organic to my ear than what I remember with my old guitar...and I'm totally digging having the single coils as all my other guitars are HSH or HH configurations...can't wipe the grin off my face


----------



## Be_eM

The Sleeper said:


> ...can't wipe the grin off my face



Congratulations, a really nice one. And "welcome back to the club" 

Bernd


----------



## The Sleeper

Hi Bernd,

Thanks for the kind words & between you & I....I'm not intending on leaving "the club" again 

Just a couple of things I'd like to ask you if that's ok.

Firstly, have you dealt with HeadlessUSA before? I've sent them a couple of emails regarding potential purchases and no one has gotten back to me about anything...

Secondly from your experience who do you feel makes the better strings La Bella or D'Addario? Just like to get your take on that.

Thanks & chat soon 

Joe


----------



## Be_eM

The Sleeper said:


> Firstly, have you dealt with HeadlessUSA before? I've sent them a couple of emails regarding potential purchases and no one has gotten back to me about anything...



Hi Joe,

yes, I did. Usually Don responds within a day, no idea why he didn't in your case. Maybe you were looking for something he didn't have? 



The Sleeper said:


> Secondly from your experience who do you feel makes the better strings La Bella or D'Addario? Just like to get your take on that.



In my opinion LaBella and D'Addario are equally good. The "original" Steinberger strings as sold by Gibson now tend to break more often (at least for me), but they still come with two high E strings maybe for exactly that reason. GHS not so great, sometimes troubles have been reported regarding the string length.

Bernd


----------



## The Sleeper

Be_eM said:


> Usually Don responds within a day, no idea why he didn't in your case. Maybe you were looking for something he didn't have?



Was nothing overly out of the ordinary, I was asking the availability on LaBella 9-46 TT strings...no reply.

One thing I've found is that my TT slips out & won't stay locked when dropped down to C. The transposing arm looks fine with no wear at all but I can see some marks on the pin so I'm presuming the pin might need changing. So I sent another asking about the availability of a Type II transposing pin, I also asked again about strings and as well as that I wanted to pick up a couple of sets of bearings, a couple of springs, a couple of rubber string retainers and a hard case for the guitar itself...no reply.

Maybe it's at my end...hey Don if you read this thread can you please get in touch lol

Thanks Bernd, much appreciated


----------



## flint757

So the one folly of the newer Steinbergers, my ZT-3, is the soft metal used for the bridge. For awhile I thought I was just going to have to deal with it, but on a whim, at like 4 in the morning, last week I called the number in the manual for Gibson and actually got a guy on the phone. He ordered and gave to me, for free, two replacement string jaws from the Steinberger factory. 

The lower E jaw screw on mine was stripped. I could manage it, but it was becoming a bit of a nuisance and I was worried about potential future problems that may not have been nearly as easy to handle. I'm relieved that parts do in fact exist and I can in fact get a hold of them to order said parts. I was this close <holds fingers really close together> to just selling it and moving on. I didn't want to be left in a situation where some sort of catastrophic failure occurred and I'd be left with a large paperweight essentially, but now I'm probably just going to order a Moses neck and rock this baby hard. 

That was my other complaint with this guitar. It's the fattest neck I have ever played and it has some rather sticky paint on the back as well. I prefer satin neck with a shallow C shape.


----------



## sonicwarrior

flint757 said:


> it has some rather sticky paint on the back as well. I prefer satin neck with a shallow C shape.


That can easily be remedied by sanding it off with a fine nonwoven web.


----------



## flint757

It isn't the best neck so replacing it makes sense. People joke about Schecters being baseball bats, but this one really is.  If I sand it and decide down the road I don't want the guitar anymore I will lose some of its value too. At least here I'm adding value (two necks) or I can recoup some of the money lost at least. They aren't too expensive anyhow.


----------



## Be_eM

flint757 said:


> People joke about Schecters being baseball bats, but this one really is.




A baseball bat? The ZT3? I assume you're coming from the Ibanez toothpick neck world 

The Synapse on the other hand, yes, THIS would be a baseball bat but is just more or less what the old Steinberger Newburgh necks were. 

Regarding your successful ZT3 parts hunting: was your guitar still under warranty?

Bernd


----------



## flint757

Probably not. I also purchased it used like 2 years ago so I wasn't the original owner. Just ended up with a really helpful guy answering the phone when I called. He had to get the parts directly from the factory and he said that generally you had to purchase the screws as a set. All the times I had tried getting a hold of them in the past fell on deaf ears; I was quite shocked that everything went so smoothly.

Okay, maybe not a baseball bat, but it is a bit thicker than my Schecter which others generally regard as a baseball bat. It's thick enough that it makes reaching my thumb over a little bit more awkward. The paint is my biggest problem overall though. I figure I'll just order a new neck that way I can get it spec'd exactly the way I want. I'll probably get the upper frets scalloped and get offset inlays to make it feel worth the hassle.


----------



## sonicwarrior

flint757 said:


> At least here I'm adding value (two necks) or I can recoup some of the money lost at least.


I doubt you are adding value when adding a second neck specific customized specially for you. 

Never tried to sell one of my guitars with sanded neck but many people prefer a neck that feels faster so my guess is that it doesn't mean much loss. At least not more than a second full customized neck.

I also don't think the neck is very thick. I would see it in the midrange.

Would only replace it by a full graphite neck myself.


----------



## flint757

That's exactly what I'm doing. Gonna get the Moses Carbon Graphite neck. Base cost is only $356, not too terrible.


----------



## dankingjr

Steinberger said:


> Hey guys, I recently purchased a Steinberger GM7SA and wanted to get your opinions on it. The guy who sold it to me said he is the original owner & purchased it new from Musicians friend back in the 90's. Now the thing that interestes me is that it is a natural finish with no Steinberger logo. I went over this guitar with a fine tooth comb & it doesn't look at all refinished.
> 
> It has a flame maple top, S Trem (Pat Pend which means it's old), original 5 bolt graphite neck(no truss rod) and a serial number starting with TNxxxxx.
> 
> I have spoken to a friend of mine who's a Steinberger dealer & he said (without looking at the guitar) that in fact Steinberger went through so many changes at that time that it is possible that they made some without logos.
> 
> Any opinions are appreciated
> 
> Here are some pics for you guys to view. Please let me know what you guys think



I know I am resurrecting an older post on this thread, but I figured everyone should be armed with solid information regarding this guitar. I worked for the company for several years in Marketing/Operations during Gibson's ownership and was there for the introduction of this particular GM. This is indeed a REAL Steinberger GM7SA from the factory. It has not been stripped or re-finished at all. I actually own one myself (even though I did indeed build mine for myself). I will try to put up some pictures of mine when I get some time.

I do not remember the specific details as to why they were built this way (I am pretty sure it was a limited run for Musician's Friend) but we did wrestle with the fact that they could not have a logo put on them with the oil finish. I know for a fact there were less than 40 or so made, and there might even be less than 20. Just to validate my story, Debbie Orsland was the Operations Manager at the time, and David Butler had recently been let go as GM of Steinberger/Tobias. 

Whatever the reason for building them, it should be noted that this is a GENUINE Steinberger GM7SA and should be considered as such when taking into account value of the guitar. 

By the way, these oil-finished guitars sound fantastic, which is why I own one. I have had several Steiny's including a GM7TA in a custom Turquise color, and a Tobacco Sunburst GM7TA, and the oil finish rules them all. 

Enjoy your guitar and rest easy knowing it is indeed a genuine, from-the-factory Steinberger.


----------



## Be_eM

dankingjr said:


> I know I am resurrecting an older post on this thread, but I figured everyone should be armed with solid information regarding this guitar. I worked for the company for several years in Marketing/Operations during Gibson's ownership and was there for the introduction of this particular GM. This is indeed a REAL Steinberger GM7SA from the factory. It has not been stripped or re-finished at all. I actually own one myself (even though I did indeed build mine for myself). I will try to put up some pictures of mine when I get some time.



Ha nice to meet you here as well, thanks for the confirmation, but that reminds me of some open questions I've asked you after our conversation on TGP about a year ago 

The guitar has been listed in my serial list as genuine since it was posted here.




dankingjr said:


> By the way, these oil-finished guitars sound fantastic, which is why I own one. I have had several Steiny's including a GM7TA in a custom Turquise color, and a Tobacco Sunburst GM7TA, and the oil finish rules them all.



Yes, please, let your pictures come, I'd love to see some more beauties 

Bernd


----------



## 0 Xero 0

I just got new double ball strings for my GR-4 and I have the adapter for normal strings, which are what I've been using now. I've been using 10-46 strings because that's what came with it and are the heaviest I could use without getting a heavier trem spring. Well I'm having issues with the double ball strings pulling the trem up past the locked position when I wasn't having that issue before. Can anyone shed some light on this?


----------



## Durero

Have you adjusted the spring tension with the big knob under the tuning knobs?


----------



## 0 Xero 0

Yeah and it didn't seem to help. It's pulling up past the locked lever too. I'm using daddarios. Has anyone had issues with them?


----------



## Durero

I've found D'Addarios to be very consistent 

If you haven't already tried this, I'd suggest locking the bridge, re-tuning, then unlocking and adjusting the spring tension again.

If that doesn't work the only thing I can think of is that you need stiffer springs.


----------



## Be_eM

Durero said:


> I've found D'Addarios to be very consistent
> 
> If you haven't already tried this, I'd suggest locking the bridge, re-tuning, then unlocking and adjusting the spring tension again.
> 
> If that doesn't work the only thing I can think of is that you need stiffer springs.




Good advice, it's the only valid and recommended procedure anyway 

If it doesn't work, there are actually three ways that could solve it, as long as the trem itself isn't damaged:

- stronger/stiffer spring, as you recommend
- longer spring
- longer screw

Even surprising for me: I've seen R-Trems with at least three different lengths of the tension adjuster screw. Only explanation is handling different tensions of standard string sets.

Bernd


----------



## 0 Xero 0

Thanks for the advice! I'll try those things when I can. I don't use trems very much and it didn't come with trem anyways. It's just strange that the single ball daddarios worked fine but these are giving me issues...


----------



## Be_eM

0 Xero 0 said:


> and it didn't come with trem anyways..



How can a GR-4 not come with a trem? This is the guitar the R-Trem was developed for?


----------



## yingmin

I'm guessing he meant to add "bar" in there.


----------



## 0 Xero 0

I'm sorry about that. I did mean the trem bar and I haven't gotten to re adjust everything yet.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Alright guys, my sort of stupid question.

Any idea where I could find a GU-7R Custom (the Spirit model with the flame top)? I've been hunting around for one. The one that Wings of Obsidian had (and sold apparently) was spectacular! I really wish I could find one.

I just don't have the funds for one of the legit "big boy" USA Steinbergers yet.


----------



## yingmin

Keep your eye on eBay and GC's used site.


----------



## yingmin

yingmin said:


> Keep your eye on eBay and GC's used site.



Haha, funny story about that. I saw a GM7TA pop up on GC used for $3000, but no picture. I checked back a few days in a row, and still nothing. Today, the picture is up, and the first thing I noticed about it was the headstock.


----------



## Be_eM

yingmin said:


> Today, the picture is up, and the first thing I noticed about it was the headstock.



Yes, everything is wrong with that description. It's not a "GM" but a "GS", it's not a "T" but a "Z", and from what I see it's not possible to verify the "A"


----------



## yingmin

Very slightly off-topic, there's also what appears to be a Newburgh XM2 fretless for $1500. I don't need another bass, but it just keeps taunting me.


----------



## Be_eM

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Any idea where I could find a GU-7R Custom (the Spirit model with the flame top)?




Look what just appeared


----------



## EchelonXIII

Hi Guys, I'm coming here for help. I'm able to get one of these for a great price, but I'm just a bit worried about it authenticity (especially the rosewood board, because I generally see them with ebony)
Can you perhaps help me out in deciding?

Thanks a bunch in advance!


----------



## Be_eM

EchelonXIII said:


> Can you perhaps help me out in deciding?



This is a cheap Chinese fake, not worth the shipping costs. Stay away.


----------



## EchelonXIII

Be_eM said:


> This is a cheap Chinese fake, not worth the shipping costs. Stay away.


100% sure on that? because the ones I have seen on Aliexpress look nothing the part. (By that I mean the color of the hardware, binding, parts, etc)


----------



## Be_eM

EchelonXIII said:


> 100% sure on that? because the ones I have seen on Aliexpress look nothing the part. (By that I mean the color of the hardware, binding, parts, etc)



More like 125% 

Nothing on that thing is NOT Chinese crap.

(edit: except that Neutrik output jack, which surely has been installed by the owner)


----------



## node

Hey guys, first post here. Just wondering if any of you guys might know anything about finding a lefty GM, particularly one with a transtrem. I've done a lot of research and have only ever found one case of a lefty GM being sold, and it had a righty transtrem instead of a lefty. I know that lefty GM's are pretty rare, and lefty transtrems in general are even rarer, but I'm just looking for anything that might help me get one.


----------



## marcwormjim

If you haven't already, I'd suggest hitting up HeadlessUSA, the steinberger_world yahoo group, and posting to the Headless Guitar Society page on facebook:

STEINBERGER - HeadlessUSA Guitar & Bass - Contact Us

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/steinberger_world/conversations/messages

https://www.facebook.com/headlessguitarsociety/?fref=ts


If you're really desperate, emailing RomanGuitars may turn up some leads - But they have this curious reputation of instead telling you that they have precisely the model you're looking for, then trying to cobble one together from parts, then claiming that it was a one-of-a-kind built by Ned himself in the 80s, then asking $5000+ for it.


----------



## Be_eM

node said:


> I know that lefty GM's are pretty rare, and lefty transtrems in general are even rarer, but I'm just looking for anything that might help me get one.



"Quite rare" doesn't precisley describe it. "White unicorn" is more what it is. I know of exactly two GMs (both GM-5) with a real lefty TT, and the serial list also has a single GM-1 lefty with a hardtail and a few others with S-Trem (non-lefty versions).

One of those lefty GM-5T guitars has been sold in 2012 for $3,995 BIN on ebay, apparently to Don Greenwald (see HeadlessUSA link above). The guitar has then been listed in his inventory, but it's no longer there. Asking him might still be a start.

That 2012 price is nothing you could expect today, though. That's a price for most regular GMs in Don's inventory. And meanwhile in Japan there has been a guy trying to sell an almost complete lefty TT alone for several thousands of $$$. 

Good luck with that search 

Bernd


----------



## Be_eM

node said:


> I know that lefty GM's are pretty rare, and lefty transtrems in general are even rarer, but I'm just looking for anything that might help me get one.



If a lefty GL with a real lefty TT would also help there's one available in the Steinberger FB group. At a very reasonable price. Now. Probably not for very long

Bernd


----------



## Konfyouzd

Be_eM said:


> More like 125%
> 
> Nothing on that thing is NOT Chinese crap.
> 
> (edit: except that Neutrik output jack, which surely has been installed by the owner)



The bridge and headpiece are dead giveaways... 

I bought one of the cheap Chinese ones just to see if I liked headless guitars.


----------



## JohnCheng

Greetings from Taiwan!! This is my first post here. Lately, I got my first Steinberger(GM7TA) in my life, but I found some problems there.

1. When I try to play some chords(often happening when all strings are touched), there seems like some little noise in my TT. However, if I try to picking just one string, all thing is fine.
2. When I use the bar, no matter what the way I use(screw up or down), the pitch will go wrong, it seems that I shouldn't use bar. But all thing is fine when I lock the arm to center...
Have u guys met those problems above before? Please help me to solve those problems, thank you!


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> 1. When I try to play some chords(often happening when all strings are touched), there seems like some little noise in my TT. However, if I try to picking just one string, all thing is fine.



Hi John,

every piece of HARDware has a resonance frequency, and it is simply possible that this causes vibration of the spring or another part of the trem. Make sure the trem top doesn't move when locked, sometimes adjusting the master tuning knob just a tiny, tiny little bit may help as well. 



JohnCheng said:


> 2. When I use the bar, no matter what the way I use(screw up or down), the pitch will go wrong, it seems that I shouldn't use bar. But all thing is fine when I lock the arm to center...
> Have u guys met those problems above before? Please help me to solve those problems, thank you!



This is not a "problem", this is just regular maintenance: a TransTrem needs 1. calibrated strings and 2. a good setup. If you're missing either of these, the trem will not transpose properly. For the strings, use D'Addario or LaBella, and for setup instructions see here. TT owners are obliged to learn this 

Bernd


----------



## JohnCheng

Thank you for answering my question, Bernd, and pardon me for bad expression in English. I'm not sure whether this is the buzzing from saddle roller . According to my observation, the buzzing maybe is nearby the saddle roller. Haha, I'm a new Steinberger user(btw, this is my first guitar made in USA), so I'm still learn how to use or set up this guitar.
I'll try to set up later XDDD, thank you!


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> pardon me for bad expression in English. I'm not sure whether this is the buzzing from saddle roller . According to my observation, the buzzing maybe is nearby the saddle roller.




Nothing wrong with your description. A buzzing bridge is a buzzing bridge, and saddles may also be the reason for it. Yes, I've seen saddles where the rollers have quite a lot of horizontal play, and these may cause that problem as well. Check if the saddles are correctly locked by the grub screw on the side of the trem. If a roller is the problem, it's very likely that only a replacement will solve this.


----------



## JohnCheng

Be_eM said:


> Nothing wrong with your description. A buzzing bridge is a buzzing bridge, and saddles may also be the reason for it. Yes, I've seen saddles where the rollers have quite a lot of horizontal play, and these may cause that problem as well. Check if the saddles are correctly locked by the grub screw on the side of the trem. If a roller is the problem, it's very likely that only a replacement will solve this.



Thank you very much for replying Bernd, and finally, when I try to check my saddle rollers if them can be moved freely by hand, I find that some of them get gummed except the fourth and fifth roller. I try to lubricate them, and is still not work. Is there another way except using the lubricating oil to let them move?


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> I try to lubricate them, and is still not work. Is there another way except using the lubricating oil to let them move?



I've been able to "revive" some stuck roller saddles by carefully pushing out the little shaft (with a pin and a hammer), taking out the roller and cleaning all the parts. In most cases there's a lot of old dirt at and below the rollers. After reassembly I use a Dremel with a polishing wheel to do the final "roller-rolling-check-including-polishing". This way quite a lot of saddles start working again, but not all. Some simply have to be replaced. 

Don Greenwald always talks about Jeff Babicz burnishing rollers at 28,000 RPM. I don't know how this is done exactly, but you can read about it here.


----------



## JohnCheng

Be_eM said:


> I've been able to "revive" some stuck roller saddles by carefully pushing out the little shaft (with a pin and a hammer), taking out the roller and cleaning all the parts. In most cases there's a lot of old dirt at and below the rollers. After reassembly I use a Dremel with a polishing wheel to do the final "roller-rolling-check-including-polishing". This way quite a lot of saddles start working again, but not all. Some simply have to be replaced.
> 
> Don Greenwald always talks about Jeff Babicz burnishing rollers at 28,000 RPM. I don't know how this is done exactly, but you can read about it here.


 Thank you Bernd, and finally I use a pincer with a piece of tissue that won't hurt the rollers, and it works. Now, these isn't any buzzing, and my transpose works fine, too. But there's still another problem I have asked you about several days before. The whammy bar, the condition always happens after I use it, and the tune should be Standard tune, but sometimes it goes wrong. And if I don't use the bar when the arm is out of the lock, everything goes fine. What's the problem is this? I have followed the manual to set up tunes, center lock or out of the lock is the always the standard tune without problem. Maybe the spring has to be change or not?


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> But there's still another problem I have asked you about several days before. The whammy bar, the condition always happens after I use it, and the tune should be Standard tune, but sometimes it goes wrong. And if I don't use the bar when the arm is out of the lock, everything goes fine. What's the problem is this? I have followed the manual to set up tunes, center lock or out of the lock is the always the standard tune without problem. Maybe the spring has to be change or not?



This sounds like a "Return-to-Zero" problem, when the trem doesn't go back into the position it has when locked. This happens due to friction where no friction should be. There are several reasons why this can happen, including the spring, but this is the last part to look at:

1. Non-rolling roller saddles are one of the main reasons, but you've already taken care of this. If all rollers roll smoothly without getting stuck all is well here.

2. Replacing the bearings and pins is kind of a regular maintenance that should be done every few years. A lot of TTs still have their original bearings, which simply don't work any longer. Then the trem swivels around the pin, not the (stuck) bearing, which you don't notice when pressing or pulling by hand, but when you let go the arm.

3. When replacing the bearings, also check the pivot base is moving freely and doesn't touch the base plate. There is an area (below the high E and B string) where these two parts sometimes touch each other, but should not.

4. The spring may contribute to a problem here, if it's too short or completely deformed. Some very old Newburgh springs are below 40 mm, something between 42 and 44 mm would be better. 

Bernd


----------



## JohnCheng

OK, I'll try to check out my bearing and spring, and I think it's really a big work for me haha, thank you Bernd!


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> OK, I'll try to check out my bearing and spring, and I think it's really a big work for me haha, thank you Bernd!



Good luck, it's worth learning it 

By the way, this thread hasn't seen any nice pics since 2014. Not acceptable


----------



## Be_eM

Totally&#8230;






&#8230; unacceptable&#8230;






&#8230; not showing any new droolworthy pics


----------



## JohnCheng

Wow!!! Are those your Steinbergers? They look beautiful!! By the way, there is no access for Steinberger parts in Taiwan so I have to wait for the parts coming I've ordered from headlessusa... Haha, hope that I won't break the TT when I start to disassemble it.
The headless guitar is not popular in Taiwan so it's hard to find a guitar technician to repair it. The threads like this website is also the same condition so I come here or Steinberger yahoo group for help haha.


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> Wow!!! Are those your Steinbergers? They look beautiful!!



Yes, thanks 



JohnCheng said:


> By the way, there is no access for Steinberger parts in Taiwan so I have to wait for the parts coming I've ordered from headlessusa... Haha, hope that I won't break the TT when I start to disassemble it.
> The headless guitar is not popular in Taiwan so it's hard to find a guitar technician to repair it. The threads like this website is also the same condition so I come here or Steinberger yahoo group for help haha.



This is not different here in Europe. Most things need to be bought from USA or S. Korea. Only a few things are available here.


----------



## narad

Wow, great pics.


----------



## Science_Penguin

So, hey, anybody here ever use those Bestparts GM bodies for sale on ebay?

Poor folks like myself can't afford a proper GM, so ordering a body and a Moses neck and putting one together myself seems like a good idea. But, how's the quality on those? 

Also, JCustom XTrem- any good?


----------



## JohnCheng

Hi there, I found a transpose problem recently. I follow the steps to adjust the transpose. In high position, I follow it to use the knob to tune, and in low position, I use jaw screws to tune. If the jaw screws can't turn anymore and it's still not in tune, how to solve the problem?


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> Hi there, I found a transpose problem recently. I follow the steps to adjust the transpose. In high position, I follow it to use the knob to tune, and in low position, I use jaw screws to tune. If the jaw screws can't turn anymore and it's still not in tune, how to solve the problem?



If setup cannot be done properly, it's possible that the strings cause that problem. I suppose you are using calibrated string sets? Which ones?


----------



## JohnCheng

Thanks for replying, Bernd. I use the 10.46 daddario string for Steinberger.


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> Thanks for replying, Bernd. I use the 10.46 daddario string for Steinberger.



Hmmm D'Addario strings should work fine, but they are also known to sometimes unwrap around the ball ends, breaking in the end. If that kind of unwrapping happens only partially, it's possible that the string just gets longer and thus cannot be set up for transposing. 

Maybe you should try a new set, and also put a little bit of solder onto the string wraps at the ball ends, in order to completely prevent that unwrapping from happening. At least worth a try.


----------



## JohnCheng

Be_eM said:


> Hmmm D'Addario strings should work fine, but they are also known to sometimes unwrap around the ball ends, breaking in the end. If that kind of unwrapping happens only partially, it's possible that the string just gets longer and thus cannot be set up for transposing.
> 
> Maybe you should try a new set, and also put a little bit of solder onto the string wraps at the ball ends, in order to completely prevent that unwrapping from happening. At least worth a try.



Oh, you mean that the some problematic strings may get too longer to transpose accurately. Will the 09.42 set work better than 10.46 normally? BTW, except the strings problem, is there any other problem that will cause the condition I've mentioned above?


----------



## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> Oh, you mean that the some problematic strings may get too longer to transpose accurately. Will the 09.42 set work better than 10.46 normally? BTW, except the strings problem, is there any other problem that will cause the condition I've mentioned above?



Yes, "calibration" is all about keeping a defined length when tuned up. If the length changes (which could happen by that "unwrapping") proper transposing is not possible because the string gets too long. 

Other reasons for such a failure are hard to tell. I'd try a new string in that position first, to find out if the failure is reproducible or not. It shouldn't matter if you're using a calibrated .009 or .010 set.


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## JohnCheng

Be_eM said:


> Yes, "calibration" is all about keeping a defined length when tuned up. If the length changes (which could happen by that "unwrapping") proper transposing is not possible because the string gets too long.
> 
> Other reasons for such a failure are hard to tell. I'd try a new string in that position first, to find out if the failure is reproducible or not. It shouldn't matter if you're using a calibrated .009 or .010 set.



OK, I'll try that next time if my current strings get old. There are few calibration strings for Steinberger, and always expensive in Taiwan, haha.


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## Be_eM

JohnCheng said:


> There are few calibration strings for Steinberger, and always expensive in Taiwan, haha.



Even more recommendable to try that "drop of solder" fix on blank strings. Good luck


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