# Line 6 Helix Megathread - 2.80 update



## demorior

Well here's line 6's shot at kemper/fractal it seems:

Line 6


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## lewis

demorior said:


> Well here's line 6's shot at kemper/fractal it seems:
> 
> Line 6



  

holy....mother....of .....

Thanks for this share dude... im excited (i want a Kemper real bad) but this thing looks boss. Wonder what it will cost.


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## demorior

lewis said:


> holy....mother....of .....
> 
> Thanks for this share dude... im excited (i want a Kemper real bad) but this thing looks boss. Wonder what it will cost.



looks like they're saying $1500


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## MaxOfMetal

Inb4 Line 6 can't be Fractal.


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## fool

i just don't know how to feel about this


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## lewis

demorior said:


> looks like they're saying $1500



Well thats pretty darn competitive!. Obviously I will wait for this to be out for a good few months and gauge opinion before I jump on the bandwagon and until then the kemper will be leading my main GAS. BUT....if this is as convincing if not better somehow than both the Axe and the Kemper for alot less, then Im onboard 100%.

About time they waded into this battle and good for them for atleast being brave enough to try. 
one thing I will say is its certainly aesthetically pleasing. Looks so elegant, modern and stylish. Amazingly attractive.
Wonder what Rack versions will look like  I bet Glorious, especially paired with the Korg Pitchblack Pro tuner haha.

EDIT, Just found the Rack version. Wow


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## Dead-Pan

Ax8 vs Helix


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## demorior

MaxOfMetal said:


> Inb4 Line 6 can't be Fractal.



all the dudes with stickers on their trucks with calvin pissing on the line 6 logo are going to be upset!


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## Dead-Pan

This thing can control daw functions?


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## lewis

Dead-Pan said:


> This thing can control functions in daws?



Fecking seems like it  oh sweet jesus.

It has 4!!!!!....yes 4!!!!! INdependant Efx Loops!!!!


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## KristapsCoCoo

Damn, considering the rise in the price of this if you compare to pod HD, I hope this will be a serious improvement! It seems like all their new products in recent years have been improved in functionality and looks, but not really in the sound. Let's hope that they were saving it for this one!

Would be cool if this would have an option to import IR's...


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## lewis

KristapsCoCoo said:


> Damn, considering the rise in the price of this if you compare to pod HD, I hope this will be a serious improvement! It seems like all their new products in recent years have been improved in functionality and looks, but not really in the sound. Let's hope that they were saving it for this one!
> 
> Would be cool if this would have an option to import IR's...


Custom IRs are a must to really have this take off, compete, rival and maybe better the Axe!.

If this has Custom IR loading (and blending a couple at once too) then Im IN!!!!


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## demorior

KristapsCoCoo said:


> Damn, considering the rise in the price of this if you compare to pod HD, I hope this will be a serious improvement! It seems like all their new products in recent years have been improved in functionality and looks, but not really in the sound. Let's hope that they were saving it for this one!
> 
> Would be cool if this would have an option to import IR's...



that's what I'm most interested in seeing as well.
i know one of the most common complaints was the inability
to use custom irs


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## lewis

Im only the one who thought getting excited at upgrading the Pod HD pro with the "Metal Amp" add on pack was now totally stupid and worthless?........


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## mikah912

Just read over at another forum:

It loads IRs, has a separate cab block, and can load multiple IRs for just one amp (or maybe just dual...I know it can have more than one).


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## demorior

mikah912 said:


> Just read over at another forum:
> 
> It loads IRs, has a separate cab block, and can load multiple IRs for just one amp (or maybe just dual...I know it can have more than one).



well there you have it. looks like line 6 is listening to their customers!


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## lewis

mikah912 said:


> Just read over at another forum:
> 
> It loads IRs, has a separate cab block, and can load multiple IRs for just one amp (or maybe just dual...I know it can have more than one).



ok.....so.....Im in!!!!!!!!!


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## Electric Wizard

Ninja'd.


Anyways, pretty excited about this. Not holding my breath until we see more about the amp models though.


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## vibrantgermancities

They would announce this the day I decided on my future rig...

Looks like they put a power switch on the back this time around. Nice.


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## lewis

Electric Wizard said:


> Ninja'd.
> 
> 
> Anyways, pretty excited about this. Not holding my breath until we see more about the amp models though.



Agree about this, I still prefer on paper the "unlimited amp" options of the Kemper and its exchange instead of using the limited models that ship on the device and wait for an update/pack to add more. But If the ones that come on the device are insanely amazing, then I suppose I should quit whining like a bitch and buy one!!!...........


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## Poltergeist

I like that there is actually a power switch on the floor model version of this. If they nail custom IR loading, then they deserve a cookie on this one. However, for $1,500 I hope for a drastic change in sound quality/tweak-ability compared to the HD series.


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## lewis

Poltergeist said:


> I like that there is actually a power switch on the floor model version of this. If they nail custom IR loading, then they deserve a cookie on this one. However, for $1,500 I hope for a drastic change in sound quality/tweak-ability compared to the HD series.



Agreed, and I get the impression that will be the route that has been taken. Its the new flagship model and clearly they have been working on this for some time.

Everything so far looks flawless. I expect Axe FX like levels of tweak ability tbh.


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## Mike

Well, damn that's nice.


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## Randy

All that and it probably uses POD3 processing.


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## lewis

Randy said:


> All that and it probably uses POD3 processing.



best sounding amp.....STILL the Big Bottom


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## mikah912

It's new algorithms and dual-DSP chips running everything, so this should have exactly "jack" and "...." in common with the previous POD lines.


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## lewis

mikah912 said:


> It's new algorithms and dual-DSP chips running everything, so this should have exactly "jack" and "...." in common with the previous POD lines.



here here!! 

Cant wait jesus!!.


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## demorior

wondering if I'll be able to use my 500x as a foot controller
if i use the rack version


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## lewis

demorior said:


> wondering if I'll be able to use my 500x as a foot controller
> if i use the rack version



Im guessing yes seeing as its all fully midi compatible. Clever


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## MASS DEFECT

EQ effects will still be in %. lol and 5 band graphic eq. Hope they do a real 10 band at least. 

but this is veeery interesting. competing with fractal ax8 which will probably be at $1999.


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## demorior

lewis said:


> Im guessing yes seeing as its all fully midi compatible. Clever



yeah hopefully considering that the foot controller is 500
with no expression pedal


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## wakjob

I wonder how much of a hand Yamaha had in the development process?


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## mikah912

The Sweetwater/Musicians Friend copy mentions that they have 45 distinct amp models to begin with, so assuming that these aren't "Super HDDDDDDD" versions of the existing HD lineup plus a handful of new ones....they should have almost all of the possible ground you need covered from the jump.


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## declol

about damn time! it looks amazing too.

this is a gamechanger purely because that $1500 will turn into a much smaller number over time


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## demorior

declol said:


> about damn time! it looks amazing too.
> 
> this is a gamechanger purely because that $1500 will turn into a much smaller number over time



absolutely. can't wait to pick one up when one of you guys lists it in the classifieds for $1200 later this year


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## 0rimus

I've had a POD HD bean with the mk. II floorboard, and it does leads, cleans, and any kind of crazy sounds or fx heavy parts really well

But not rhythm, which is 90% of what I do. Tried for years to milk that thing for a basic rhythm tone I could write songs with and couldn't do it

Fix that and I'm on board. Probably.

Maybe


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## mnemonic

About time they release something high end again. I've been hoping they would do something like this for a while. It certainly looks very swish, hopefully it sounds good too. Can't wait to see and hear more. 

Fingers crossed for a remastered Big Bottom. 


Their site is basically unusable though.


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## Sumsar

So going to the link to check the helix and well, either they don't really know how to sell stuff to serious guitar players or they are trying to market this to the same people that buy the pod hd stuff.

They go on and on and on both in the video and on the site about how many stupid functions they have put into it - I mean why would I ever wanna program it with my ....ing feet????? They mention that it does the IR cab loading, but that is the closets they get to discuss the only thing that really matters: does it feel and sound good? I don't need 32 delays before and after the amp - I just want something that sounds like an actually ....ing amp! Focus on the important stuff ffs!

Well guess time and people of this forum will tell if it is any good - apparantly they forgot to tell us about that themselves.

Edit: Oh and yeah, they are going full Fractal retard on this one and are selling a foot controller for only 499 - it doesn't even have an expression pedal on it! I.e. the behringer fcb1010 which can be found using for 50 - 100 bucks used will be a better controller! I wonder if they will also charge 25$ for a software editor for the darn thing?


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## 4Eyes

all nice, but I think that it's a bit late....few years..


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## mongey

but does it Djent !!!???

looks cool. all those lights and screens are impressive . I'm not in the market for it but will be interested to hear the reaction when it hits the streets

I did lol in the vid "it loads user IR's " wow . only 5 years late for that feature


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## Spinedriver

Looks like this thing might actually be able to replace my GSP1101. 

I won't be first on board but I think it'll be a very safe bet that it'll be a lot cheaper than a Kemper or Axe-Fx. I'm curious to see what the opening lineup of amps will be. I was kind of disappointed with the selection when they first rolled out the HD500, so hopefully they'll get back to X3 levels with this one.


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## cwhitey2

I'm impressed from what I have seen... I wonder if this will replace my Archon


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## cakewalkgg

Just bought an axefx and love it...but I have to admit this thing is sexy.. its got all the buzzwords..

very anxious to hear the demos. More exited to play it and see how they got the play feel down. The axe2 is very good in this area.


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## mikah912

Every amp, aside from remastered versions of the 3 original amps in the HD lineup, is new. That's 42 new models.

Also, it's been confirmed to run up to four IRs simultaneously, depending on DSP available.


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## edsped

Interface wise, this thing kills. Customizable, digital labels for each switch. Custom LED colors for each switch. Great looking display with a bunch of knobs. Capacitive + multi-function switches. Hands free amp tweaking. I almost want one just for the user interface alone. 

Can't wait to try one in person to see how it feels/sounds and just how intuitive everything actually is.


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## Abaddon9112

I'm actually getting kinda fed up with the uber-high end modeler craze. For folks who are into that stuff its cool to have another option I guess. But honestly, if they just put out a -$400 POD that could load a few IRs, and that you don't need a frickin iPad to operate, they'd have my money and probably a lot more people's. 

I always thought the whole charm of modelers was that for a few hundred you could get a ....load of _good_, useable sounds. But for the kind of dough Axe, Kemper, and now Helix go for, you could get a great amp that will last for years, or a medium-priced amp and a ton of pedals, and it'd be a better long term investment. There's something very Apple-ish and digi-snobby about a 1,500+ modeling rig that you know is going to be "obsolete" and not supported by Line 6 in ten years.


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## edsped

Abaddon9112 said:


> But for the kind of dough Axe, Kemper, and now Helix go for, you could get a great amp that will last for years, or a medium-priced amp and a ton of pedals, and it'd be a better long term investment.



I don't know about that. I wouldn't really consider either a good investment since there's gonna be heavy depreciation both ways. Beyond that, it comes down to personal needs and applications.


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## JPhoenix19

Here's to hoping it answers all the complaints people had about the HD-series.

I'll watch it closely after release, maybe even try one out at a Guitar Center. I'll not jump on board unless it beats out the modelling capabilities of a PC.

...I don't think that will happen.


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## Abaddon9112

edsped said:


> I don't know about that. I wouldn't really consider either a good investment since there's gonna be heavy depreciation both ways. Beyond that, it comes down to personal needs and applications.



Well, if 50 years from now every computer on Earth has some weird new data port that's incompatible with USB, or if the chips in the thing are no longer produced, you'd be out of luck with trying to get it upgraded or repaired. But you could still plug an amp into a socket and run it. Provided tubes are still around. And they will be, cause there's quite a lot of NOS tubes from the 50s still around today.


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## mikah912

Abaddon9112 said:


> Well, if 50 years from now every computer on Earth has some weird new data port that's incompatible with USB, or if the chips in the thing are no longer produced, you'd be out of luck with trying to get it upgraded or repaired. But you could still plug an amp into a socket and run it. Provided tubes are still around. And they will be, cause there's quite a lot of NOS tubes from the 50s still around today.



Doesn't this hold true for every consumer electronics device in the world? I assume you own a smartphone and HDTV


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## Abaddon9112

mikah912 said:


> Doesn't this hold true for every consumer electronics device in the world? I assume you own a smartphone and HDTV



Yeah. But I don't flip them every time a new model comes out like Axe-fx fanboys


I mean, there are guitars and amps around from literally 60 years ago that people still play and gig with. These are pieces of tech that didn't use to go obsolete, but now a lot of the market is saturated with super high-priced stuff that won't have a quarter of the lifespan of a Fender Twin. That seems kinda silly to me.


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## MASS DEFECT

no word on target release date? i want to read the manual already!


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## cakewalkgg

It looks f'in badass DI.. No doubt this has the appearance of a monster processor. Im glad l6 is still interested in serious players.


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## Digital Igloo

*mod edit:
1) please place your affiliation with Line 6 in your account signature
2) if you would like to market your products register for a Vendor account and limit your posts to the Dealers section*


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## thrashmetal85

No over spill between patches.... All my excitement has been dashed.


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## mikah912

According to Line 6, the EQs are all in hz, not vague percentages. Also, they model the OCD and Klon Centaur drive out of the box. Up to 4 amps at once too.


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## olejason

AX8 just got rekt


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## mongey

Abaddon9112 said:


> Yeah. But I don't flip them every time a new model comes out like Axe-fx fanboys
> 
> 
> I mean, there are guitars and amps around from literally 60 years ago that people still play and gig with. These are pieces of tech that didn't use to go obsolete, but now a lot of the market is saturated with super high-priced stuff that won't have a quarter of the lifespan of a Fender Twin. That seems kinda silly to me.



It's all an opinion dude. There are many musicians who thinks it's crazy to be stuck in what was the norm 60 years ago. That we should try to innovate.

The great thing is we have great tube amps and great modeling gear these days. People can choose their platform.


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## Spinedriver

The best thing about it is that local shops will more than likely carry them. As such, people will be able to try them out and not have to get on a month(s) long waiting list to buy one without the benefit of even trying it first.


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## MetalBuddah

Pretty optimistic about this for the following reasons:
1. It doesn't have the POD name - probably means a new direction in modeling/product in general aka this isn't going to be POD HD 2.0
2. It has been several years since a new, substantial product
3. Yamaha acquired Line 6 and probably pumped a lot of money into this thing, hence why this took many years to come out and the HD series has been relatively lackluster
4. It loads IRs - that was my biggest gripe when I had an HD500. The cabs sucked and the IRs I had on my computer sounded much better.
5. The design is pretty stunning and it looks like they put a lot of thought into everything.
6. SO MANY I/O OPTIONS.
7. Reamping over USB - the HD series suffered severely from not having reamping abilities.

Definitely going to check this out when it hits stores. I am in the market for this kind of thing anyway....really tired of using my iPad since I had to sell my Axe-FX last year.


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## demorior

Abaddon9112 said:


> Yeah. But I don't flip them every time a new model comes out like Axe-fx fanboys
> 
> 
> I mean, there are guitars and amps around from literally 60 years ago that people still play and gig with. These are pieces of tech that didn't use to go obsolete, but now a lot of the market is saturated with super high-priced stuff that won't have a quarter of the lifespan of a Fender Twin. That seems kinda silly to me.



well, high end modeling definitely has its demographic 
and it sounds like you're not one of them
but that's not to say they're not ideal for anyone

they're for people who need access to several vastly different sounds in a highly portable rig so they don't have to bring 4 different amps to every gig

i don't even have to go in to the tons of recording benefits these things are capable of for these to be a good investment.

and as for gear flipping, there are still people out there who own the axe fx standard and ultra models who have no plans to upgrade to the 2 and people like me who will happily purchase their used standard and ultras should they decide to 

tl;dr version: everyone's needs are different


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav

I'm definitely interested, but I can't say I'm not a little annoyed after dropping $80 on the metal and bass packs for my HD500X...

HOWEVER, if this thing really does prove itself worthy of the $1500 price tag, then I think I'll look into it in a year or two, especially now that I'm joining a gigging band again - the biggest issue I've run into with the HD series is the lack of routing options and the DSP limit - I do a ton of stuff at once sometimes, and that DSP limit can be a bitch. One of my favorite non-standard tones needs a compressor, the string synth, two amps, two pitch shifters, a chorus, and reverb - that takes a TON of space, and still isn't quite where I'd leave it if I had the extra power.

The fact you can run 4 amps makes this VERY attractive, lots of options to potentially run an entire band out of the box


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## GizmoJunior

I just texted my buddy to tell him about this since he's a line 6 fan. He's a manager at a little music shop and it turns out they've got one in the back. Might have to go get the inside scoop on this thing if they'll let me play it.


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## Shask

Looks pretty cool! Not sure I would trade my Axe-FX for one, but I am interested to watch how this thing sounds when they come out!


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## demorior

Zeno said:


> I'm definitely interested, but I can't say I'm not a little annoyed after dropping $80 on the metal and bass packs for my HD500X...
> 
> HOWEVER, if this thing really does prove itself worthy of the $1500 price tag, then I think I'll look into it in a year or two, especially now that I'm joining a gigging band again - the biggest issue I've run into with the HD series is the lack of routing options and the DSP limit - I do a ton of stuff at once sometimes, and that DSP limit can be a bitch. One of my favorite non-standard tones needs a compressor, the string synth, two amps, two pitch shifters, a chorus, and reverb - that takes a TON of space, and still isn't quite where I'd leave it if I had the extra power.
> 
> The fact you can run 4 amps makes this VERY attractive, lots of options to potentially run an entire band out of the box



i'm still going to be purchasing the metal and vintage packs
this isn't really a pod hd replacement in my eyes
it's a whole different class so for those who aren't in the axe fx budget territory the hd series is still our best option


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav

^Fair point. It just stings a little.


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## demorior

Zeno said:


> ^Fair point. It just stings a little.



haha i feel you. i literally just purchased an hd500x this week so i know your pain.


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## bloc

Watched the cute promo vid on the product website and I'm not gonna lie, they really got something going with this box. I like how you can adjust parameters literally with your feet. It'll be a great feature for the bedroom or studio.


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## Steinmetzify

Badass interface.....thing looks fantastic.

I will say it probably won't replace my Axe and I think most of these features are 'too little too late', but it's definitely a viable alternative.


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## demorior

steinmetzify said:


> Badass interface.....thing looks fantastic.
> 
> I will say it probably won't replace my Axe and I think most of these features are 'too little too late', but it's definitely a viable alternative.



yeah. honestly the ax8 still looks like more of an attractive choice.
i'm excited to see what the price for that will be.


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## Steinmetzify

demorior said:


> yeah. honestly the ax8 still looks like more of an attractive choice.
> i'm excited to see what the price for that will be.



I hear you....for me, using L6 stuff all the way back to the red bean up thru the HD300-HD500 and some little 1x12 that's currently in my bedroom closet: I'd have to hear/play it before I'd even THINK of paying $1500 for anything L6 put out...they're good for what they are and the price points are accurate for me for the tones in the boxes. 

Fractal would get my $ first, and right behind them a used Kemper...this thing would have to be completely stellar at everything it promises to do before I'd bother with it. Just my .02...


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## MetalDaze

When is Kemper coming out with something new?


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## Shask

steinmetzify said:


> I hear you....for me, using L6 stuff all the way back to the red bean up thru the HD300-HD500 and some little 1x12 that's currently in my bedroom closet: I'd have to hear/play it before I'd even THINK of paying $1500 for anything L6 put out...they're good for what they are and the price points are accurate for me for the tones in the boxes.
> 
> Fractal would get my $ first, and right behind them a used Kemper...this thing would have to be completely stellar at everything it promises to do before I'd bother with it. Just my .02...



Line 6 definitely has a "sound" that I usually like enough at first to pay, but then it starts to grate on my nerves over the next several months. Something about the way the upper mids sound. They are always there. You hear it easily in the early Axe vs HD videos on YouTube. The HD always has this weird mid-funk over the top of everything.

That being said, I have owned every version of the POD, so you never know.


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## Steinmetzify

Grab the rack version and let me know.


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## Fathand

I think this is good, the more options we get in the high-end modelling segment the closer we get to the point which I would like (as a hobbyist/semi-professional musician) - a modular modelling amp. 

Think about it, you pay less for limited hardware, in different steps. I.e. 1 amp + five pedals, 2 amps + 10 pedals and so forth - or you can freely pick your setup which determines the hardware and price + you pay for the loadable content which you can switch around when and if you need.

For example, I get the cheapest bundle - 1 amp + 5 pedals. I've got a bass gig - boom, I upload an SVT + a Bass OD, compressor and a chorus. Next day, I need to be at a guitar playing rehearsal - boom, stick in an USB and upload a Marshall JCM800, a TS, Delay and wah (for my expression pedal). 

Commercially speaking, I might end up paying the same for all the stuff I need in the end if I buy a lot (than if I had bought the flagship product), but if I only need some specific amps & pedals this might be cheaper for me and lure me into the modelling world if I'm not there already. Throw in a software modeller for my recording setup in which I can use the amps I bought and I'm a happy customer. 

Fractal & Line6, are you listening?


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## demorior

Fathand said:


> I think this is good, the more options we get in the high-end modelling segment the closer we get to the point which I would like (as a hobbyist/semi-professional musician) - a modular modelling amp.
> 
> Think about it, you pay less for limited hardware, in different steps. I.e. 1 amp + five pedals, 2 amps + 10 pedals and so forth - or you can freely pick your setup which determines the hardware and price + you pay for the loadable content which you can switch around when and if you need.
> 
> For example, I get the cheapest bundle - 1 amp + 5 pedals. I've got a bass gig - boom, I upload an SVT + a Bass OD, compressor and a chorus. Next day, I need to be at a guitar playing rehearsal - boom, stick in an USB and upload a Marshall JCM800, a TS, Delay and wah (for my expression pedal).
> 
> Commercially speaking, I might end up paying the same for all the stuff I need in the end if I buy a lot (than if I had bought the flagship product), but if I only need some specific amps & pedals this might be cheaper for me and lure me into the modelling world if I'm not there already. Throw in a software modeller for my recording setup in which I can use the amps I bought and I'm a happy customer.
> 
> Fractal & Line6, are you listening?



this is definitely the dream. eventually i hope it gets to this point.


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## sevenstringj

Sumsar said:


> They go on and on and on both in the video and on the site about how many stupid functions they have put into it - I mean why would I ever wanna program it with my ....ing feet?????


Beats bending over to the ....ing floor to turn a ....ing knob with your ....ing hand.

Anyway, I'll wait till they make a POD Helix for $499 or something.


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## Sumsar

sevenstringj said:


> Anyway, I'll wait till they make a POD Helix for $499 or something.



The good thing about line6 stuff is that they sell so much so contrary to axe-fx and kemper we will probably be able to buy these things used about a year after release for half the price or less


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## Slunk Dragon

Did not expect this, though I suppose considering what the competition is for this, I'm eager to see more wide-ranging demos of the thing.

If it winds up being useful, I really like how moddable the footswitches are, and with the patch names right there, the only other foot controller I've seen do that is the ones Adrian Belew uses. (I think they're called Liquid Foot Controller or something, not too sure, but they cost A LOT for just a foot controller)

Count me interested!


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## vick1000

Too expensive for POD algorythms, hope they found something new to be a true competitor. Breakthrough?


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## demorior

vick1000 said:


> Too expensive for POD algorythms, hope they found something new to be a true competitor. Breakthrough?



new algorithms, dual dsp, ir loading


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## Spinedriver

steinmetzify said:


> Badass interface.....thing looks fantastic.
> 
> I will say it probably won't replace my Axe and I think most of these features are 'too little too late', but it's definitely a viable alternative.



I don't think it's "too late" at all. If the $1,500 tag is "MSRP", then it's possible the street price could be even less. That aside, the Amplifire doesn't seem to be "Pod killer" everyone was hoping it would be and even at $1,500, it's still $1,000 cheaper than an Axe II. Not only that but like I mentioned before, at least with the L6 stuff, people can try it out in a store before blindly buying one online.

You're right though, I doubt that it'll replace anyone's Fractal or Kemper gear but it'll definitely attract people who couldn't pull the trigger on one because of the price point but want something better than a Pod HD.


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## lewis

Im actually re thinking my strategy. 

Im tempted to go Kemper instead, skipping this generation of Line 6 (the Helix) as I do already own a HD Pro. And then go back to Line 6 for their next gen product after the Helix. I cant afford to get both a Kemper and the Helix.

Anyone think thats a sound strategy?. The Helix looks and sounds amazing though so its a real tough one.

Something about the Kemper and its unlimited amp options just pulls me in, plus capturing the feel of amps too.


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## KristapsCoCoo

As far as I understand - this has been in development since the early Fractals lunched and even before there was a KPA. So it's meant to be something else.

All the functionality upgrades are immense and a lot of the functions are indeed something completely new fresh in the market.

And damn that shvt can run 4 rigs including 4 IR's at the same time and as far as I understand you can route it for multiple different instruments as long as DSP allows it. That opens some wild possibilities tone-wise.

And as far as the actual sound goes:



Code:


To pull some of them off, we've had to physically model the behavior of incandescent light bulbs, transistors, bucket brigade chips, and other components. Completely new architecture and DSP engine.


So it will be an improvement over POD for sure and it seems that it really may sound on par with Fractal and KPA. 

I can't wait to hear some demos of that fvking thing!


----------



## lewis

KristapsCoCoo said:


> As far as I understand - this has been in development since the early Fractals lunched and even before there was a KPA. So it's meant to be something else.
> 
> All the functionality upgrades are immense and a lot of the functions are indeed something completely new fresh in the market.
> 
> And damn that shvt can run 4 rigs including 4 IR's at the same time and as far as I understand you can route it for multiple different instruments as long as DSP allows it. That opens some wild possibilities tone-wise.
> 
> And as far as the actual sound goes:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> To pull some of them off, we've had to physically model the behavior of incandescent light bulbs, transistors, bucket brigade chips, and other components. Completely new architecture and DSP engine.
> 
> 
> So it will be an improvement over POD for sure and it seems that it really may sound on par with Fractal and KPA.
> 
> I can't wait to hear some demos of that fvking thing!



not helping my decision making or GAS for the Helix man 

sounds unreal.


----------



## Veldar

MetalDaze said:


> When is Kemper coming out with something new?



Does Kemper have to even do that, their whole thing is based off cloning a sound source not the amp sim coding.


----------



## sevenstringj

I don't recall seeing incandescent light bulbs in any gear I've owned. WTF are they talmbout?


----------



## lewis

sevenstringj said:


> I don't recall seeing incandescent light bulbs in any gear I've owned. WTF are they talmbout?



I dont know but it sounds awesome  where do i sign.


----------



## Sumsar

Veldar said:


> Does Kemper have to even do that, their whole thing is based off cloning a sound source not the amp sim coding.



I guess the question was when will kemper do a Kemper 2.0 where both the software and hardware that makes the profiles as well as the cpu used to run the profiles at a certain bitrate will be upgraded?

I think the thing with Kemper is that the Kemper's hardware is good enough - so there is not really a need to upgrade it - they (like fractal) do software updates that makes both the profiling process and the playback (can you call it that) better. We have gotten to an age where the performance of amp sims/profilers are no longer determined by the limited hardware, but only by the software.


----------



## Shask

Spinedriver said:


> I don't think it's "too late" at all. If the $1,500 tag is "MSRP", then it's possible the street price could be even less. That aside, the Amplifire doesn't seem to be "Pod killer" everyone was hoping it would be and even at $1,500, it's still $1,000 cheaper than an Axe II. Not only that but like I mentioned before, at least with the L6 stuff, people can try it out in a store before blindly buying one online.
> 
> You're right though, I doubt that it'll replace anyone's Fractal or Kemper gear but it'll definitely attract people who couldn't pull the trigger on one because of the price point but want something better than a Pod HD.



They said $1500 was the street price on other forums. MSRP is like $2300 or something.


----------



## Shask

steinmetzify said:


> Grab the rack version and let me know.



The DAW integration stuff is interesting. One thing Line 6 is very good at is "the total package". Meaning good software, easy updates, connecting with online stuff, etc.... Fractal is just now catching up with this kind of stuff. 

If the Helix can be more integrated with a DAW the way a MIDI keyboard is where you can insert as a VST and tweak and save presets in the DAW and such, that will be a huge leap forward.


----------



## mikah912

lewis said:


> Im actually re thinking my strategy.
> 
> Im tempted to go Kemper instead, skipping this generation of Line 6 (the Helix) as I do already own a HD Pro. And then go back to Line 6 for their next gen product after the Helix. I cant afford to get both a Kemper and the Helix.
> 
> Anyone think thats a sound strategy?. The Helix looks and sounds amazing though so its a real tough one.
> 
> Something about the Kemper and its unlimited amp options just pulls me in, plus capturing the feel of amps too.



Kemper is an awesome piece of recording and live kit, but Line 6 is clearly going for the whole enchilada here. 

That Helix floor unit is essentially a $1300 Liquid Foot Pro competitor with (ostensibly) Axe/Kemper-level amps, FX, and multi-IR loading inside....along with a badass recording interface WITH reamping and inputs and outputs up the butt. You can even split the cost with the other guitar player in your band and run completely independent signal chains at the same time for gigs. 

That is an _amazing_ value proposition, so I scratch my head at the price complaints.


----------



## lewis

mikah912 said:


> Kemper is an awesome piece of recording and live kit, but Line 6 is clearly going for the whole enchilada here.
> 
> That Helix floor unit is essentially a $1300 Liquid Foot Pro competitor with (ostensibly) Axe/Kemper-level amps, FX, and multi-IR loading inside....along with a badass recording interface WITH reamping and inputs and outputs up the butt. You can even split the cost with the other guitar player in your band and run completely independent signal chains at the same time for gigs.
> 
> That is an _amazing_ value proposition, so I scratch my head at the price complaints.



Absolutely correct.

Im atm Im the one and only guitarist in my band, but being able to have me and the Bassist running through this per gig is an unreal preposition. 1 small floor board in 1 small carry case, catering for 2 guitarists per show


----------



## Dead-Pan

Kemper has 2 processors as well, and at least up to last year they were only using one.

For actual guitar tones I doubt the Helix will match it but in other ways it may surpass. The Helix is damn gorgeous though! So tempting to buy just to look at it, WTF!

There will not be a Kemper 2 for many many years. They claim to have a development plan in place similar to Virus.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ


----------



## slapnutz

Carl Kolchak said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ



Embedded version of post above. Thanks Carl.


----------



## 4Eyes

what is that DAW integration stuff that all are talking about?


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

Do we like this? I can't really tell. The plexi patch was nice. And it looked to be really intuitively set up (those trying to setup a plexi patch on the HDs know the nightmare of overdrive/EQs/DEP etc.) Surely it was an impressive first look, but I can't say I'm blown off the water yet...and I really wanted to be.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Yeah, I'm not falling for Line 6 marketing again. I need more info, demos, tone samples, etc. Preferably samples that aren't overproduced stuff from Ola and the like.


----------



## RustInPeace

Im kinda pumped for this! I just bought a HD500x a few months ago, but I would be interested in upgrading..


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Carl Kolchak said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ





slapnutz said:


> Embedded version of post above. Thanks Carl.




The crunch patch actually sounded really good, but holy .... that's a damn good display.


----------



## Carcaridon

This thing looks really good and a good step up for Line 6. I'd be interested to see the amp model list. Also, it's missing the ability to capture an amp, like the Ax and Kemper's allow.


----------



## lewis

no Big Bottom in the review?. 
Come on Line 6.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Nice to see a 10 band eq there!


----------



## Lain

Well.....


----------



## lewis

MASS DEFECT said:


> Nice to see a 10 band eq there!



Good spot!!!

Jesus christ I want this so bad now  I cant afford it.

Im going to have to sell my Ironheart 120 watt and 2 guitars.


----------



## coreypla

I don't really have anything new to add to this convo. I saw and watched the promo video on the Line 6 page and got pretty excited. I just assumed at the end there would be a Line 6 price-tag on the Helix to sweeten the deal. I think I was even hoping it would be a bargain/steal. $1,500 is a lot of money. I think the amp plays a huge role in a guitarists sound (whether it be a head and cab, or a modeler)....but I also think that the guitar plays a role, and the pickups, and most of all--the player. 

I definitely want one, but to be fair--I want an axe fx and a kemper as well, none of which I own. I actually got (a year back) the Blackstar ID100TVP head with footswitch for about $399. It has nice modeling and tube emulation with its 'true valve power' and you can assign 128 recallable user patches. The buttons on the footswitch can be used to switch between patches, or to shut on/off effects. It only has 4 delays, 4 reverbs, and a chorus, flanger, phaser, and tremolo....but those are the only effects I would use besides the distortion (it has 2 clean, 2 dirty, and 2 high gain settings). It also works as an interface, can be reassigned via online software, can reamp DI signals, has a user community for downloading patches, and it sounds like a tube head, looks like a (is a) guitar head and weighs a lot less #backproblems. 

I'm sure the Helix is way better than the Blackstar, hopefully $1,000 better. In any event I can't imagine someone telling me that the only reason they don't like my playing is because I wasn't using a Helix, or Axefx, or Kemper. 

But it's days like these when I wonder why I couldn't have been a trust-fund baby......................................


----------



## sage

I don't know if I'm in for a $1500 machine any time in the near future as I am currently super happy with my 5150III, using the HD500 for effects and the very occasional amp model for flavour here and there, so maybe I'm not the target market. Just about everything with this machine looks legitimate to me; Liquid Foot style digital labels for foot switches, all the routing and mixing options, colour display, dual engines... But... Why no Bluetooth? "If you get a camera kit, you can even hook up an iPad." What? Why not add the chip L6 uses in the Firehawk to allow me to edit my patches wirelessly? It probably woulda fit in there somewhere and the chip is super cheap.


----------



## coreypla

Did anyone notice that at 11:37 on the video, some of the amps are washed out on the display screen? Does that mean we have to pay extra for those?


----------



## Lain

coreypla said:


> Did anyone notice that at 11:37 on the video, some of the amps are washed out on the display screen? Does that mean we have to pay extra for those?


Maybe they were not the final names of the amps and have been blended out for copyright reasons.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

coreypla said:


> Did anyone notice that at 11:37 on the video, some of the amps are washed out on the display screen? Does that mean we have to pay extra for those?




Sweetwater probably got a demo model without all the amps available. 

On another note, I've read in the Line 6 Helix discussion board, that Line 6 has finally fixed the 4 cable method unity gain problem. So hopefully, they REALLY did it this time. 

This would kill on 4 cable method.


----------



## Steinmetzify

coreypla said:


> Did anyone notice that at 11:37 on the video, some of the amps are washed out on the display screen? Does that mean we have to pay extra for those?


 
I'm wondering if it means they've reached the end of what they can load up in that particular patch due to DSP limitations based on what they've already got loaded up in the patch....

Seriously wanna hear some high gain stuff....Bruce Jenner playing a 513 does nothing for me.

I realize they just unveiled it, but cmon.....they've gotta realize that there are metalheads with money that would like to consider this thing....I wonder how easy it is to program metal tones. The AxeChange for the Axe is overflowing with great presets for everything from basic Rectos and Invaders to band specific tones....I want to know how close this thing is gonna get.


----------



## mikah912

steinmetzify said:


> I'm wondering if it means they've reached the end of what they can load up in that particular patch due to DSP limitations based on what they've already got loaded up in the patch....
> 
> Seriously wanna hear some high gain stuff....Bruce Jenner playing a 513 does nothing for me.
> 
> I realize they just unveiled it, but cmon.....they've gotta realize that there are metalheads with money that would like to consider this thing....I wonder how easy it is to program metal tones. The AxeChange for the Axe is overflowing with great presets for everything from basic Rectos and Invaders to band specific tones....I want to know how close this thing is gonna get.



Since they always model the amps in their showcase room, I imagine you'd dial it in much as you'd dial in your current Line 6 5150, Recto, Fireball, and Uberschall patches, but using the IRs you love and probably having to apply much less EQ to filter out higher frequency fizz.


----------



## Lain

Sweetwater video doesn't sound good at all.


----------



## Steinmetzify

What's really interesting to me are the guys across various forums that would never even consider a used AxeII for $1700 are all gaga over this thing for $1500. WTF?!


----------



## Lain

They are victims to advertising or something. Every year you read "Oh, i wonder what Line6 is up to at this NAMM!" even though everything Line6 has ever done has been surpassed. Line6 could release a PodHD150 and these fanboys would be all over it. 

Anyways, these Helix feature list is AMAZING. 

But in the end it always comes down to what it sounds like.


----------



## Spinedriver

I'm thinking they were using a "beta" version of the unit and it's quite possible that it wasn't 'fully loaded' with all of the available amps. I'd be pretty hard pressed to believe that they'd load 10 different Fender amps and nothing with more gain than a Marshall Plexi.


----------



## celticelk

steinmetzify said:


> What's really interesting to me are the guys across various forums that would never even consider a used AxeII for $1700 are all gaga over this thing for $1500. WTF?!



A used AxeII doesn't come with a floorboard, let alone a floorboard that's this well-designed.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

steinmetzify said:


> What's really interesting to me are the guys across various forums that would never even consider a used AxeII for $1700 are all gaga over this thing for $1500. WTF?!



Not willing to spend on the MFC, probably? 

And look 14 Colorful LCDs!!! 14! In technicolor! Wow! Byooootiffuuul!!!


----------



## mikah912

steinmetzify said:


> What's really interesting to me are the guys across various forums that would never even consider a used AxeII for $1700 are all gaga over this thing for $1500. WTF?!



If the AX8 had a display and UI like that and was $1500, they'd be just as excited if not moreso. The Axe is just a rack unit. This is (Line 6's attempt at) THAT in a Liquid Foot Pro. No small feat.

And no, the Sweetwater video was not a good first impression for a pro-level flagship modeler. I think Line 6's teaser video sounded better.

Get it out to the usual suspects stat (i.e. Andertons/Chappers, Fluff, Ola, etc.).


----------



## Lain

Well, it's also available as a rack unit. 

Without all the fency buttons but for the same price.


----------



## mikah912

True. But it's new and unexpected, so I get the excitement. I have it too, but I don't think it's going to launch with the models I am looking for. Let's see how much after-release development and enhancement Line 6 does.


----------



## Lain

Yeah. People over at TGP are all over this unit without even having seen a proper review.... not to speak of testing it out live.

Time will tell if the sound is going to be amazing or not. 
I'm not in the market for it anyways. 1499$ will be 1700 - 1900&#8364; here probably. And for that money i can get a nice amp and quite a few pedals to be honest.


----------



## Steinmetzify

mikah912 said:


> If the AX8 had a display and UI like that and was $1500, they'd be just as excited if not moreso. The Axe is just a rack unit. This is (Line 6's attempt at) THAT in a Liquid Foot Pro. No small feat.
> 
> And no, the Sweetwater video was not a good first impression for a pro-level flagship modeler. I think Line 6's teaser video sounded better.
> 
> Get it out to the usual suspects stat (i.e. Andertons/Chappers, Fluff, Ola, etc.).


 
Agh, they'd still be whining about product and Cliff first.

I'm with you, I wanna hear Fluff demo this and I think Rob Chapman would do a good job too.....however I know for a fact what Ola's demo would sound like so he can keep it.

I think it's awesome that they went this way, but for me it's what they do after that counts even more. I want to play this thing, see how it feels and then wait awhile and see what they do for updates or if they completely abandon it for a straight year because 'it's good enough as is'.

I suspect we'll have some new owners here pretty fast....SSO is to me the fastest and most progressive of the forums I'm on, so I'll be watching for reviews here first by people I know and trust, not people that are trying to sell me this thing...


----------



## Lain

Who's Fluff?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Lain said:


> Who's Fluff?



Ryan Bruce, does demos of gear on YT....usually really good.

Kemper clip:



His channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/fluff191/videos


----------



## Spinedriver

My question is, if there are beta units already out and being tested, why not give an estimate as to when the possible release date might be ?


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

coreypla said:


> Did anyone notice that at 11:37 on the video, some of the amps are washed out on the display screen? Does that mean we have to pay extra for those?



on the FAQ on the Line 6 Forum, Digital Igloo said they were still working on getting permission to use names of amp models from the original amp makers, so it's likely they don't have that name confirmed yet. Or they just wanna be cockteases


----------



## Poltergeist

Nice to see the EQ features in the video, and also the mic placement and distance opens up a lot of new doors and that got me excited... However, the sound demos in the Sweetwater demo did not impress me on first listen. Those demo patches, especially the cleans, sounds like something I could easily replicate already on my POD HD. I dunno, I've never been a plexi guy to begin with, so I didnt get hyped about that from the get go. We just need a lot of modern high gain demos to see if there is a really significant improvement in sound and dynamics... I'm sure its going to own... I'm just still in the skeptical phase


----------



## coreypla

Is there any way we can get a manual or tentative list so I can see what effects and amps this will come loaded with? I definitely want to know if they put a polyphonic pitchshift/downtuner on it. And if it would be any good.


----------



## lewis

coreypla said:


> Is there any way we can get a manual or tentative list so I can see what effects and amps this will come loaded with? I definitely want to know if they put a polyphonic pitchshift/downtuner on it. And if it would be any good.



im guna be brave and say yes. The HD series had one and it was ok at best. I imagine this will have a digitech whammy clone and be quality. I also want this effect


----------



## celticelk

coreypla said:


> Is there any way we can get a manual or tentative list so I can see what effects and amps this will come loaded with? I definitely want to know if they put a polyphonic pitchshift/downtuner on it. And if it would be any good.



The reply over on TGP was that there is not a polyphonic pitchshifter in the effects list.


----------



## lewis

celticelk said:


> The reply over on TGP was that there is not a polyphonic pitchshifter in the effects list.



that would surprise me alot actually. Shame if true


----------



## lewis

I pray with every fiber of my being that we get some sweet new high gain amps and one of them is the Randall Satan!!!!...............

What I wouldnt give for that.


----------



## QuantumCybin

steinmetzify said:


> I'm wondering if it means they've reached the end of what they can load up in that particular patch due to DSP limitations based on what they've already got loaded up in the patch....
> 
> Seriously wanna hear some high gain stuff....*Bruce Jenner playing a 513 does nothing for me*.
> 
> I realize they just unveiled it, but cmon.....they've gotta realize that there are metalheads with money that would like to consider this thing....I wonder how easy it is to program metal tones. The AxeChange for the Axe is overflowing with great presets for everything from basic Rectos and Invaders to band specific tones....I want to know how close this thing is gonna get.


----------



## lewis

QuantumCybin said:


>



how did i miss that


----------



## No Gods

lewis said:


> I pray with every fiber of my being that we get some sweet new high gain amps and one of them is the Randall Satan!!!!...............
> 
> What I wouldnt give for that.



Not going to happen at all. I spoke with a line 6 rep today. There will only be very few high gain amp profiles added. If you like line 6 high gain tones and your looking for tweakability... Helix might work for you. This reeks of Fail big time. Not interested now after speaking with the rep today.


----------



## Shask

No Gods said:


> Not going to happen at all. I spoke with a line 6 rep today. There will only be very few high gain amp profiles added. If you like line 6 high gain tones and your looking for tweakability... Helix might work for you. This reeks of Fail big time. Not interested now after speaking with the rep today.



Why the heck would they not have many high gain models?

That is the same fail they had with the HD series.....


----------



## Spinedriver

lewis said:


> I pray with every fiber of my being that we get some sweet new high gain amps and one of them is the Randall Satan!!!!...............
> 
> What I wouldnt give for that.



It would be nice to see something like that but it seems that L6 has been pretty consistent with their high-gain offerings. Mesa, Engl, Bogner, Diezel and the 5150 have more or less been the standard offerings since the XT came out.

With any luck they might branch out with this one and possibly include something from Randall, a Fryette Pitbull or maybe even a Rivera Knucklehead.


----------



## big_aug

steinmetzify said:


> What's really interesting to me are the guys across various forums that would never even consider a used AxeII for $1700 are all gaga over this thing for $1500. WTF?!



Well, $1700 for an AxeFX II isn't all you'd end up spending. I find the Helix interesting because it could be an all in one package. Probably too expensive for me, but the idea of everything in a single, sleek floor model is nice.


----------



## Steinmetzify

big_aug said:


> Well, $1700 for an AxeFX II isn't all you'd end up spending. I find the Helix interesting because it could be an all in one package. Probably too expensive for me, but the idea of everything in a single, sleek floor model is nice.



I spent less. For what I need it for the floor controller wasn't necessary; used it'd be a little over $2k, which is what the rack version of the Helix and the floor controller go for.


----------



## mikah912

Shask said:


> Why the heck would they not have many high gain models?
> 
> That is the same fail they had with the HD series.....



They're going to have plenty of high gain amps at launch in the box....

....it's just that they will all be new versions of the same ones from the HD series because they own those amps , and have unlimited time to model them. 

So...yes....5150, Recto, Fireball, Bogner Shiva and Uberschall and so on. Supposedly these are newly modeled with the new engine. Cabs are some new Two Kotes-esque format with movable mics and 16 mic choices per cab. 

We'll be loading the IRs of our choice anyway, I'm sure.


----------



## Rick

Well. 

I'm in. 

BTW, Randy, get your ass back on FB.


----------



## Axe Cop

The specs, hardware and interface all look really good. I'm definitely interested. I don't want to see Ola or Fluff do demos, I want to see some 16 yr old kid that you would run into at your local guitar shop sit down and instantly dial in a killer stairway or enter sandman tone.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

musicianafriend has the unit shipping mid August and the rack unit end of July. I for one am very intrigued but really want to hear it/play it first. Time to replace my AX212 that's about to be 15 years old!


----------



## No Gods

mikah912 said:


> They're going to have plenty of high gain amps at launch in the box....
> 
> ....it's just that they will all be new versions of the same ones from the HD series because they own those amps , and have unlimited time to model them.
> 
> So...yes....5150, Recto, Fireball, Bogner Shiva and Uberschall and so on. Supposedly these are newly modeled with the new engine. Cabs are some new Two Kotes-esque format with movable mics and 16 mic choices per cab.
> 
> We'll be loading the IRs of our choice anyway, I'm sure.



No Diezel, Randall, and 5153. No... Uploading your own patches. This nothing more than a fancy hd500 pod. Save up and get a Kemper. Not impressed at all. Even the rep sounded meh about the Helix.


----------



## albertc

No Gods said:


> No Diezel, Randall, and 5153. No... Uploading your own patches. This nothing more than a fancy hd500 pod. Save up and get a Kemper. Not impressed at all. Even the rep sounded meh about the Helix.



hmmm join date june 2015 and 2 posts? Nice try Kemper employee


----------



## mikah912

No Gods said:


> No Diezel, Randall, and 5153. No... Uploading your own patches. This nothing more than a fancy hd500 pod. Save up and get a Kemper. Not impressed at all. Even the rep sounded meh about the Helix.



I don't think that's fair, per se. If the base models are near Axe quality and you can load your own IRs, having the lineup that's in the HD500 now with the 5150 and Bogner Shiva added in out of the box is not bad by a long shot.

Constant expansion would, of course, be key.


----------



## sevenstringj

Fwiw, I actually got a pretty sweet chunk with one of the non-typical metal amps in the POD HD500. I think it might've been the Divide or PhD, with a TS in front. (Sold the thing long ago. Glad I didn't jump on the HD500X. )



No Gods said:


> Not going to happen at all. I spoke with a line 6 rep today. There will only be very few high gain amp profiles added. If you like line 6 high gain tones and your looking for tweakability... Helix might work for you. This reeks of Fail big time. Not interested now after speaking with the rep today.





No Gods said:


> No Diezel, Randall, and 5153. No... Uploading your own patches. This nothing more than a fancy hd500 pod. Save up and get a Kemper. Not impressed at all. Even the rep sounded meh about the Helix.





albertc said:


> hmmm join date june 2015 and 2 posts? Nice try Kemper employee


----------



## SeditiousDissent

No Gods said:


> No Diezel, *Randall*, and 5153. No...



Really? One of your qualifiers on whether or not it's worth buying is a fvcking _Randall_? 

I'm with albertc...Obvious Kemper employee is obvious.


----------



## mikah912

Welp....they added the full amp list to the FAQ. It's the HD lineup renamed to reflect their "HX" status.

For the curious:

WhoWatt 100, Soup Pro, Stone Age 185, Tweed Blues Nrm, Tweed Blues Brt, US Small Tweed, US Deluxe Nrm, US Deluxe Vib, US Double Nrm, US Double Vib, Mail Order Twin, Divided Duo, Interstate Zed, Jazz Rivet 120, Essex A-15, Essex A-30, A-30 Fawn Nrm, A-30 Fawn Brt, Mandarin 80, Brit J-45 Nrm, Brit J-45 Brt, Brit Plexi Nrm, Brit Plexi Brt, Brit Plexi Jump, Brit P-75 Nrm, Brit P-75 Brt, Brit J-800, German Mahadeva, German Ubersonic, Cali Rectifire, ANGL Meteor, Solo Lead Clean, Solo Lead Crunch, Solo Lead OD, PV Panama, Line 6 Elektrik, Line 6 Doom, Line 6 Epic, Tuck n' Go, SV Beast Nrm, SV Beast Brt, Cali Bass, Cali 400 Ch1, Cali 400 Ch2, G Cougar 800


----------



## albertc

So it looks like the usual Marshalls, Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, Mesa Recto, Engl Fireball, Soldano SLO100 and Peeavy 5150? So nothing really out of the ordinary.


----------



## Axe Cop

Aww I wanted a Big Bottom HX


----------



## bloc

I'm digging these cleverly named amp models


----------



## lewis

- Firstly Im bummed that we aint getting any new flashy amps for this product. Thats LONG overdue just for a freshness let alone because they would probably sound better. When you think what amps exist now that are really popular?.
Randall, Laney, orange Dark terrors, Diezels etc

- 2ndly defo seemed an obvious Kemper rep which is pretty ridiculous whilst understandable. The fact remains though that I can get a Kemper and get unlimited amp choices. Any and every amp that exists.

- Choosing to remodel amps like Doom whilst leaving out the Big Bottom seems absolutely stupid. That Pre amp combo in that amp made it sound amazing. What a shame.

- My biggest gripe with Line 6 from the past is not catering enough for metal players. This carries over the same problem. Lots of clean, jazz, blues and light rock amps that I would have less use for, for my sound, than a potato.

- The product looks amazing, and Im talking the best looking modeler we have ever seen. But putting my boner away for a moment, its actually more about the sound than anything. And If we are only getting the same amps I have in my HD Pro, then I will stick to my HD Pro + Torpedo CAB IR Loader and buy a Kemper instead of this.

They would need to announce FREE amp bundles/downloads which includes way more high gain amps, and ones that are NEW to Line 6 too, for me to get involved 100%

To summarize,

Looks amazing, Has great features/connections BUT very limited and stale amp choices especially for metal players.


----------



## No Gods

lewis said:


> - Firstly Im bummed that we aint getting any new flashy amps for this product. Thats LONG overdue just for a freshness let alone because they would probably sound better. When you think what amps exist now that are really popular?.
> Randall, Laney, orange Dark terrors, Diezels etc
> 
> - 2ndly defo seemed an obvious Kemper rep which is pretty ridiculous whilst understandable. The fact remains though that I can get a Kemper and get unlimited amp choices. Any and every amp that exists.
> 
> - Choosing to remodel amps like Doom whilst leaving out the Big Bottom seems absolutely stupid. That Pre amp combo in that amp made it sound amazing. What a shame.
> 
> - My biggest gripe with Line 6 from the past is not catering enough for metal players. This carries over the same problem. Lots of clean, jazz, blues and light rock amps that I would have less use for, for my sound, than a potato.
> 
> - The product looks amazing, and Im talking the best looking modeler we have ever seen. But putting my boner away for a moment, its actually more about the sound than anything. And If we are only getting the same amps I have in my HD Pro, then I will stick to my HD Pro + Torpedo CAB IR Loader and buy a Kemper instead of this.
> 
> They would need to announce FREE amp bundles/downloads which includes way more high gain amps, and ones that are NEW to Line 6 too, for me to get involved 100%
> 
> To summarize,
> 
> Looks amazing, Has great features/connections BUT very limited and stale amp choices especially for metal players.



there will no new high amp models for the Helix. I was told this via conversation with a rep for line 6. Complete total waste. Get a kemper. This is junk for metal musicians.


----------



## No Gods

albertc said:


> hmmm join date june 2015 and 2 posts? Nice try Kemper employee



I don't own a kemper, but I'm saving up for one. I had my eye out on the Helix but after reading the specs and talking with a line 6 rep... Not going to happen. Feel free to talk to line 6 yourself. They are not adding any new high gain profiles for the Helix and you can't upload any profiles. Different software... Not compatible. Understand? Good.


----------



## Kristianx510

albertc said:


> So it looks like the usual Marshalls, Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, Mesa Recto, Engl Fireball, Soldano SLO100 and Peeavy 5150? So nothing really out of the ordinary.



I really don't see what's to complain about on this list.. Realistically what else do you need? Seems like like they covered every high gain amp that's worth adding to the unit.


----------



## lewis

Kristianx510 said:


> I really don't see what's to complain about on this list.. Realistically what else do you need? Seems like like they covered every high gain amp that's worth adding to the unit.



Depends really as to what type of high gain amps you need. These days modern progressive music and "Djent" is getting huge. Im an 8 string player myself. 

Considering the amount of times ive had to pay Line 6 EXTRA money over the years upgrading to Premium pod farm 2.0 to get the extra amps, and then with the HD Pro with the metal add on etc. Im totally bored of the same Amp models, especially when Ive had to pay extra for alot of them now multiple times.

I want new amps reflective of the current market etc.
EVH, new oranges, Randalls, Laney, Fryette, Archon, Diamond.

All that stuff. Which I have access to with a Kemper and the excellent tone exchange place on their website etc. Which is FREE!!!!!!, unlike Line 6 and their amp packs.


----------



## 4Eyes

I really can't see what to complain about in regards of higain amps - everyone who know how to dial good sound will use one amp anyway. If you won't be able to get good sound out of it, it wouldn't be fail of the unit and even axe fx with dozen of amps and kemper with it's capabilities wouldn't help you..if you want something speciffic I don't see why to spend 1500+ money on unit that models it, instead of buying that amp

Btw you kind of mix apples and oranges - sounds on the kemper exchange are uploaded by people who had all those amps and made profiles of them. Thats big difference, it's like someone wil upload saved preset from the line 6 unot

Not interested in modelers anyway, but I wonder if it'll blow some wind on the market and prices of those units will go down


----------



## lewis

4Eyes said:


> I really can't see what to complain abou in regards of higain amps - everyone who know how to dial good sound will use one amp anyway. If you won't be to get good sound out of it, it wouldn't be fail of the unit and even axe fx with dozen of amps and kemper with it's capabilities wouldn't help you..
> 
> Btw you kind of mix apples and oranges - sounds on the kemper exchange are uploaded by people who had all those amps and made profiles of them. Thats big difference, it's like someone wil upload saved preset from the line 6 unot
> 
> Not interested in modelers anyway, but I wonder if it'll blow some wind on the market and prices of those units will go down


The current tone Im getting is not the problem I can dial tones in using these amps just fine, Hell we have had YEARS worth of practice to do this considering Line 6 havent added any new ones. Its that I want to explore NEW tones and amps Ive never used/heard/played through yet.

and lol the Kemper and Axe wouldnt help you?. Erm ok haha. Think their ridiculous amount of amp choices (esp the kemper imo) would help no end with this particular gripe of mine.


----------



## Lain

Meh, the amp list is fine. Plenty of high gain amps. I don't play "djent" though and probably never will.
With the ability to load custom IRs you will be able to cover a lot of tone.


----------



## lewis

Lain said:


> Meh, the amp list is fine. Plenty of high gain amps. I don't play "djent" though and probably never will.
> With the ability to load custom IRs you will be able to cover a lot of tone.



i have had custom irs with my pod hd pro for over a year now. 

the amp list has buzz killed this for me.  wanted this so bad but if its still the same amps i have currently then


----------



## mnemonic

Given Line 6's track record, I don't think we could expect any real support for the unit in the years to come. I'm disappointed by the amp list, and its likely not to change. 

In fact, if we use their history as a guide, we will probably see two or three firmware updates over the life of the unit, with some paid model packs added years after initial release. 

Imo, that really doesn't compete with everyone else in this market; Kemper with the nearly unlimited amps, and Axe FX with the monthly (or more often) updates, and constant free new amps, pedals, etc. 

Unless this thing sounds absolutely godly, I think most people would lean toward the Fractal AX8 when it comes out, since its basically like a floorboard Axe-lite, which will likely have all the same support and constant improvements as the normal Axe FX.


----------



## lewis

mnemonic said:


> Given Line 6's track record, I don't think we could expect any real support for the unit in the years to come. I'm disappointed by the amp list, and its likely not to change.
> 
> In fact, if we use their history as a guide, we will probably see two or three firmware updates over the life of the unit, with some paid model packs added years after initial release.
> 
> Imo, that really doesn't compete with everyone else in this market; Kemper with the nearly unlimited amps, and Axe FX with the monthly (or more often) updates, and constant free new amps, pedals, etc.
> 
> Unless this thing sounds absolutely godly, I think most people would lean toward the Fractal AX8 when it comes out, since its basically like a floorboard Axe-lite, which will likely have all the same support and constant improvements as the normal Axe FX.



in a nutshell mate. Im frustrated by this. I want unlimited amps and new exciting tones. Not yet more rehash of the same amps we have always had.


----------



## dean_fry

IDK if this has been already posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ


----------



## Lain

Unlimited amps?`


----------



## lewis

Lain said:


> Unlimited amps?`



Whats so weird about that, when the Kemper in a similar price bracket offers this? Every amp I want I can find profiles of that people have made and uploaded for free.


----------



## SjPedro

I'm perfectly happy with my HD500x at this point. I get great sounds from it. 
What annoys me about this thing is that they added features that people have been asking since the dawn of the HD500. IR's being one. And I'm going to be a bit of a nitpick but...god dammit an on/off switch freaking finally! 

What really grabs my attention to this thing is the possible evolution of the 4-cable method. If that guitar amp input works as they say it does, I can see a lot of people using their favorite amp heads and control the channels of them using this pedalboard. 
I do have to admit that Line 6 seems to be in the right track to compete with the likes of Kemper and Fractal, but I do have to agree that they have a loooong way to go still.... Maybe Helix 2 or Helix Pro will be closer to the likes of those great products....and probably cheaper.

Time will tell! Until then I'll stick to my HD500X and the Metal Pack I bought


----------



## lewis

SjPedro said:


> I'm perfectly happy with my HD500x at this point. I get great sounds from it.
> What annoys me about this thing is that they added features that people have been asking since the dawn of the HD500. IR's being one. And I'm going to be a bit of a nitpick but...god dammit an on/off switch freaking finally!
> 
> What really grabs my attention to this thing is the possible evolution of the 4-cable method. If that guitar amp input works as they say it does, I can see a lot of people using their favorite amp heads and control the channels of them using this pedalboard.
> I do have to admit that Line 6 seems to be in the right track to compete with the likes of Kemper and Fractal, but I do have to agree that they have a loooong way to go still.... Maybe Helix 2 or Helix Pro will be closer to the likes of those great products....and probably cheaper.
> 
> Time will tell! Until then I'll stick to my HD500X and the Metal Pack I bought



Im in the same boat only I have the Pro. I am in the market for something thats the step up from that. I was eyeing the Kemper, This got released...I had a boner, I researched more it seemed great. Then the amp list got revealed and.............

yeah I want the Kemper.


----------



## JohnIce

mnemonic said:


> Given Line 6's track record, I don't think we could expect any real support for the unit in the years to come. I'm disappointed by the amp list, and its likely not to change.
> 
> In fact, if we use their history as a guide, we will probably see two or three firmware updates over the life of the unit, with some paid model packs added years after initial release.
> 
> Imo, that really doesn't compete with everyone else in this market; Kemper with the nearly unlimited amps, and Axe FX with the monthly (or more often) updates, and constant free new amps, pedals, etc.
> 
> Unless this thing sounds absolutely godly, I think most people would lean toward the Fractal AX8 when it comes out, since its basically like a floorboard Axe-lite, which will likely have all the same support and constant improvements as the normal Axe FX.



Spot on. At this price point, Line6 will have to compete with some of the best customer service there is. Being an owner of both an Axe and a Kemper, the work Cliff and Christoph put into catering to the people who've already bought their product, is amazing to be honest.


----------



## Lain

Apples and oranges.


----------



## lewis

Lain said:


> Apples and oranges.



How is it?. Its a high end modeler to compete with other high end modelers.?

The Helix and the Axe Fx II for example seem very comparable in features. As of yet we dont know about sound from the helix.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

The gear nerd in me is giddy for this. The poor loser in me is sad at the over 1k price. I'd like to try it, but I'm a poor loser.

If it turns out being nice, I'll have to look into offloading some gear for it.


----------



## Andromalia

lewis said:


> Im only the one who thought getting excited at upgrading the Pod HD pro with the "Metal Amp" add on pack was now totally stupid and worthless?........



You will now have the "Metal Amp" pack for the Helix, so rejoice !


----------



## Lain

lewis said:


> How is it?. Its a high end modeler to compete with other high end modelers.?
> 
> The Helix and the Axe Fx II for example seem very comparable in features. As of yet we dont know about sound from the helix.


Yes. The Helix and The Axe Fx. But not the Helix and the Kemper.


----------



## Spinedriver

No Gods said:


> there will no new high amp models for the Helix. I was told this via conversation with a rep for line 6. Complete total waste. Get a kemper. This is junk for metal musicians.



I think you may have mis-interpreted something. It's the complete LACK of selection of high gain amps that's the issue. Even the GSP1101 has a wider selection than that. 

I don't know if they have to pay licensing fees or anything like that but perhaps they just want to stick with what they've already paid for. On top of that, rather than start from scratch, they've basically just been re-tweaking all of the amps they developed for the XT. It does make me wonder why they feel the need to include a dozen Fender amps but only 4 or 5 high gain options.


----------



## lewis

Andromalia said:


> You will now have the "Metal Amp" pack for the Helix, so rejoice !



do explain?
Unless this is a sarcastic joke? in which case


----------



## lewis

Spinedriver said:


> I think you may have mis-interpreted something. It's the complete LACK of selection of high gain amps that's the issue. Even the GSP1101 has a wider selection than that.
> 
> I don't know if they have to pay licensing fees or anything like that but perhaps they just want to stick with what they've already paid for. On top of that, rather than start from scratch, they've basically just been re-tweaking all of the amps they developed for the XT. It does make me wonder why they feel the need to include a dozen Fender amps but only 4 or 5 high gain options.



 multiple Fender amps for no real reason and barely any High Gain options has been a HUGE gripe of mine for years.


----------



## Andromalia

More seriously, those patches didn't seem anything special to me. Hardware is looking nice with all those ins/outs etc though. I'm pretty wary with L6's high gain implementation too so I'd want to hear it first. (Note I'm an Axe II owner so won't buy one, but new stuff is always good)


----------



## celticelk

lewis said:


> Whats so weird about that, when the Kemper in a similar price bracket offers this? Every amp I want I can find profiles of that people have made and uploaded for free.



First, the Kemper's not in a similar price bracket. Go calculate the cost of a new Kemper plus foot controller, and compare to the Helix. 

Second, given that the Kemper is designed to *create new amp profiles*, comparing the profiles available for it (created by users on their own time and dime) to the models available on the Helix (created by L6 engineers using a more "traditional" amp modeling process") is IMO completely unfair. It's like comparing the hours of video released on YouTube every month to the hours of video released by the major networks. The effort is not comparably distributed.


----------



## celticelk

No Gods said:


> there will no new high amp models for the Helix. I was told this via conversation with a rep for line 6. Complete total waste. Get a kemper. This is junk for metal musicians.



Yeah, nobody's ever made any decent metal with any of those amps.


----------



## lewis

celticelk said:


> *First, the Kemper's not in a similar price bracket. Go calculate the cost of a new Kemper plus foot controller, and compare to the Helix. *
> 
> Second, given that the Kemper is designed to *create new amp profiles*, comparing the profiles available for it (created by users on their own time and dime) to the models available on the Helix (created by L6 engineers using a more "traditional" amp modeling process") is IMO completely unfair. It's like comparing the hours of video released on YouTube every month to the hours of video released by the major networks. The effort is not comparably distributed.



Getting the Helix Rack ($1500) plus floor controller ($400) for it (which is randomly missing an expression pedal) comes in at $1900 = £1228
Kemper rack plus foot controller for me = £1500

Difference of only £272. How is that not a "Similar" price bracket?. Surely anything less than £500 difference puts it in a Similar bracket.


So I would rather put the extra £270 towards a kemper with a better track record of customer service, updates and a higher standard of tones etc than Gamble yet again on more Line 6 stuff.

EDIT: Ive spent £1144 on Line 6 over the years as it is.


----------



## No Gods

celticelk said:


> Yeah, nobody's ever made any decent metal with any of those amps.



And they sucked.


----------



## Carcaridon

I was excited on seeing this initially but the list of amps has me backing off and rethinking stick with software based amp modelers or going with the Kemper. I like the idea of creating my own tones with the Kemper. I have an old Ampeg VH140C head and celestion cab with the 75's I would LOVE to model.


----------



## Lain

Why would you get the rack version + floorboard if you can just get the floorboard version?


----------



## lewis

Lain said:


> Why would you get the rack version + floorboard if you can just get the floorboard version?



he was asking me to compare the price of a Kemper AND foot controller with the Helix. So thats what I did, that included the foot controller for it to be a fair comparison.


----------



## lewis

Carcaridon said:


> I was excited on seeing this initially but the list of amps has me backing off and rethinking stick with software based amp modelers or going with the Kemper. I like the idea of creating my own tones with the Kemper. I have an old Ampeg VH140C head and celestion cab with the 75's I would LOVE to model.



exactly the same boat as me now mate. Seems the far more safe choice. PROVEN track record for the Kemper. I wanted to get the Helix so bad because its gorgeous. But I put more emphasis on Amp options and TONE.


----------



## Lain

Kemper + It's floorboard (which is randomly missing an expression pedal btw.) costs 2599&#8364; here. 
Helix with a built in floorboard and expression pedal probably around 1700&#8364;.

If money wasn't a question i would get the Axe-Fx II over Line6 or Kemper anyways.


----------



## celticelk

lewis said:


> Getting the Helix Rack ($1500) plus floor controller ($400) for it (which is randomly missing an expression pedal) comes in at $1900 = £1228
> Kemper rack plus foot controller for me = £1500
> 
> Difference of only £272. How is that not a "Similar" price bracket?. Surely anything less than £500 difference puts it in a Similar bracket.
> 
> 
> So I would rather put the extra £270 towards a kemper with a better track record of customer service, updates and a higher standard of tones etc than Gamble yet again on more Line 6 stuff.
> 
> EDIT: Ive spent £1144 on Line 6 over the years as it is.



Could you source that price? The KPA rack plus foot controller is $2549 at Sweetwater, compared to about $1999 for the Helix rack and controller based on estimates. Maybe you feel differently, but I tend to think of a 25% price difference as fairly substantial, especially when the absolute numbers involved are this large. Maybe it's just that you Brits are used to paying more for things? =)


----------



## celticelk

No Gods said:


> And they sucked.



OK, so your sarcasm detector is broken. Got it.


----------



## lewis

celticelk said:


> Could you source that price? The KPA rack plus foot controller is $2549 at Sweetwater, compared to about $1999 for the Helix rack and controller based on estimates. Maybe you feel differently, but I tend to think of a 25% price difference as fairly substantial, especially when the absolute numbers involved are this large. Maybe it's just that you Brits are used to paying more for things? =)



Yeah certainly mate, its here - http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/kemper_profiler_rack_amp_with_remote.asp?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqe-rBRCv_J6qs6isp6EBEiQAmbctFgL4-RGctGPgyuD-J43tybVmS2A4NYmdlBIaG17n-jAaAuyu8P8HAQ

and your probably 100% correct. We get shafted big time in the UK normally that I think naturally we are less bothered by price differences. We have all made peace with it now sadly.


----------



## technomancer

*The troll has been banned... but worth noting he was NOT a Kemper employee or associated with the company.*


----------



## Andromalia

lewis said:


> do explain?
> Unless this is a sarcastic joke? in which case



I was referring to the tendency L6 has to issue great hardware lacking lots of options they sell separately later on.
If Fractal had the L6 marketing team I'd be down thousands in DLC amps now.

I've used podfarm and a Line 6 sound card in the past, they were great for what they were, but the amp selection and effects were a bit lacking, you had to purchase this and that pack to get what you wanted. 
Line 6 not including a lot of high gain amps in the Helix makes me think they are going to do the same again.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Give us tone samples, dammit.


----------



## celticelk

lewis said:


> Yeah certainly mate, its here - Kemper Profiler Rack Amp with Remote - Rich Tone Music
> 
> and your probably 100% correct. We get shafted big time in the UK normally that I think naturally we are less bothered by price differences. We have all made peace with it now sadly.



Thanks! I think it's worth noting that the emphasis on these two units seems to be very different, even apart from the amp-profiling technology. The Helix has a much more robust signal-routing and effects-modeling implementation, whereas the Kemper model seems to be the amp and a few stompbox-emulation slots. Which you prefer is going to be highly individual.


----------



## Carcaridon

lewis said:


> exactly the same boat as me now mate. Seems the far more safe choice. PROVEN track record for the Kemper. I wanted to get the Helix so bad because its gorgeous. But I put more emphasis on Amp options and TONE.



I have to say the Helix looks amazing, but the look isn't even half the battle. The amp list is the same stuff L6 has been doing for years. I had their Vetta II head and loved the sounds, but I don't see anything different here. If I'm going to spend $1499, I may as well go the extra couple hundred and get the Kemper. Then I can model my own stuff too.


----------



## Shask

I am sad about the list of amp models. That makes me think this is a POD HD with a shiny screen.


They did say the effects were updated. I wonder how these sound. Some of their M-Series effects were decent, like the delays, but I never did like their modulations.


----------



## lewis

Carcaridon said:


> I have to say the Helix looks amazing, but the look isn't even half the battle. The amp list is the same stuff L6 has been doing for years. I had their Vetta II head and loved the sounds, but I don't see anything different here. If I'm going to spend $1499, I may as well go the extra couple hundred and get the Kemper. Then I can model my own stuff too.



yeah exactly. Thats what worries me too.


----------



## that short guy

I'm actually super stoked about this, I can't afford one any time soon but it's still cheaper than the fractal/kemper option and from the demo it sounded pretty damn good


----------



## lewis

Andromalia said:


> I was referring to the tendency L6 has to issue great hardware lacking lots of options they sell separately later on.
> If Fractal had the L6 marketing team I'd be down thousands in DLC amps now.
> 
> I've used podfarm and a Line 6 sound card in the past, they were great for what they were, but the amp selection and effects were a bit lacking, you had to purchase this and that pack to get what you wanted.
> Line 6 not including a lot of high gain amps in the Helix makes me think they are going to do the same again.



I too get that impression and thats why, as soon as the amp list came out, it killed alot of my hype. Seems like the next generation of Line 6's entire history repeating itself, instead of genuinely being cutting edge and innovative.


----------



## lewis

an excellent post about this taken from The Gear page's thread on this


"RE: My disappointment with the amp models:

I totally get that you have an in-house stash, and you didn't want to ignore obvious treasure. You own the amps and could spend unlimited time with them. Great.

But while this unit was not CONCEIVED as a competitor to Axe-FX and Kemper, the reality is its release date and price make it one. It is verrrry competitive in soooo many areas.

That makes the stale amp selection all the more damaging. Axe-FX's latest firmware has 217 amp models, and it has onboard tonematching. Kemper is essentially limitless. I don't see 38 - even very well-captured - basic amp models as being competitive to that.

Does the range of models in Helix cover MOST territory? Absolutely. Even the 10 amp models in Atomic Amplifire covers most modern guitar territory. But there is such a thing as "the long tail"....that last 10 percent of niche sounds that someone doesn't use all the time...bu when they want it, they gotta have it and won't consider a platform without it. It's like when I was on Windows Phone for a few years during the surge of popularity of Android and iOS. Microsoft would always brag how they finally caught up to their competitors in the big apps that covered the vast majority of what people used - Facebook, Instagram, Candy Crush, etc. But the platform remains a distant third to this day because they are perpetually behind on the smaller things. When my oldest son's little league manager communicated schedules and scores...he did it through a popular app, TeamSnap, that is only on iOS and Android. When he started first grade this past fall, the teacher used a great classroom management app to communicate with parents and let us check his behavior and academics in real time on a daily basis.....it wasn't on Windows Phone.

Windows Phone covered the "vast majority" of what I would need to do, and yet where it fell short mattered, so I switched back to Android.

Similarly here, most guitarists' needs are covered by a good Fender, Vox, Marshall, Dual Recto, and 5150 sims. But there are many popular flavors outside of that pantheon. Friedman HBE has something a little different than a Plexi or even a boosted Plexi. Mesa Mark IV amps have a tonality that can't be recreated by just tweaking a Rectifier. Randall Satan and Fryette amps have a dry, punchy high gain character that you can't easily contort a 5150 into. Marshall's JVM amps are more than just a tweaked JCM800. Orange's modern range (Rockerverb, Dark Terror, OH100) is outside of all of that with its own thing. PRS Archon and EVH 5150 III are modern marvels that have made quite the sensation, and you can't just stick an EQ in front of a Recto or 5150 to recreate them. Having a detailed sim of either one of those would be HUGE get. People want Dumbles or Gibson L5s or any number of oddball choices. Fractal offers a lot of custom models that were conceived for their architecture. Can you say that the Epic, Elektrik and Doom were conceived from the ground up for the HX engine? Was there not even a thought to make ONE Line 6 model that was exclusive to Helix? Did no one think to resurrect the long dormant amp models from the X3 range (e.g. Diezel herbert, Diezel VH4, Cornford MKII 50)?

Your competitors offer either models or tonematching of ALL of the above. You don't. (Neither does Amplifire, but it's so much less, it doesn't have to compete on this front)

And I get that you see this as 1.0, and want to get it out there and then grow after the fact. But you only get one chance to make a first impression, and this isn't a good one. You've already seen in this thread and elsewhere that other people don't want to give Line 6 a chance because of past experiences or preconceived notions. Everything about Helix refutes those things...except for the amp selection.

I don't doubt these are good sounding models. But you don't have the benefit of being known for constant after-release amp model development, so it's tough for one to believe that a flood of new models are coming for Helix after one drops $1500 on it at release. After all, if you don't add a single new model at launch, what are the odds that you have 10 or 20 never before modeled amps waiting in the wings in the next few months?

Like I said, I love you and root for your success. But I see this as a dealbreaker, ultimately"


----------



## ihunda

So when are these going to be out?

The strategy of fractal to delay the Axe-8 until new old stocks and b stocks of the Axe FX II are gone may not have been that wise  Because I sure will consider that Helix thing now.


----------



## celticelk

Given that the Helix floorboard is half the price of the Axe II + foot controller combo, I'm still not as convinced as some of you that they will actually be perceived as competitors by the majority of the market. I'm also not convinced that the "long tail" is actually long enough to justify having more amp models at release, from L6's cost/benefit perspective.


----------



## mikah912

celticelk said:


> Given that the Helix floorboard is half the price of the Axe II + foot controller combo, I'm still not as convinced as some of you that they will actually be perceived as competitors by the majority of the market. I'm also not convinced that the "long tail" is actually long enough to justify having more amp models at release, from L6's cost/benefit perspective.



Talking cost/benefit; Line 6 owns amps that were in the original Pod XT metal pack that are nowhere to be seen here. Just bringing back the two Diezels, the Cornford and the 5150 II to go along with the Panama/5150 would've been a big help at virtually no cost except development time.

Having the same 38 amps as always, on the other hand, WILL cost them customers/purchases.


----------



## Andromalia

Don't forget effects quality play a big factor, too. I'm keeping my axe II not because I play with 250 amps (I routinely use 5, tops) but because the effects are world class and of Fractal's support. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of commitment and support for a product in the music industry, save maybe for Toontrack. (who sent me a box of replacement DVDs for ALL their software for free)


----------



## celticelk

mikah912 said:


> Talking cost/benefit; Line 6 owns amps that were in the original Pod XT metal pack that are nowhere to be seen here. Just bringing back the two Diezels, the Cornford and the 5150 II to go along with the Panama/5150 would've been a big help at virtually no cost except development time.
> 
> Having the same 38 amps as always, on the other hand, WILL cost them customers/purchases.



As I said over on TGP, I think you're underestimating the cost of development time, in terms of what it takes to pay for an engineer to spend the man-month of hours to model an additional amp, the delay on shipping product for every amp you add, and the marginal sales benefit for any given additional amp. Of *course* not having more amps costs them sales. The question is whether those additional sales are worth the investment L6 would have to make in order to get them.


----------



## prozak

Not a single high gain demo out yet? 

It would also be nice to see a comparison POD HD vs Helix, even though I can't afford anything more than the HD500 I already own. 

At this point we can't tell wether it's worth 1.5k or not.


----------



## op1e

Well, at least they didn't starve you of the Panama until the entire platform was 5+ years old and on its way out.


----------



## Electric Wizard

celticelk said:


> I'm still not as convinced as some of you that they will actually be perceived as competitors by the majority of the market.


I think these days just about everything is perceived as a competitor to the Axe, whether it should be or not. Amplifire was a good example with everyone thinking it would be an AFX killer before it came out, despite it being so close in price to Pods. Even Bias is/was talked about that way. It just seems like a lot of thought towards modelers is framed with the AFX being the de facto standard and the question for anything else is "how close can it get?"

Personally, I'm not so wowed anymore given the amp list, as it is so close to the price of a used AxeII which beats it by a mile. But how representative opinions on forums are is unclear. I think it's easy to say that the average consumer is less tech savvy than these crowds. That was Line6's mantra about the Pods, but I don't buy that $1500 units are going to be bought mostly by people that aren't aware of the modeling market.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Helix is a great deal. Full stop. 

Unless you already have a great footswitch, or other high end modeling rack unit. But that's not the audience that Line 6 is going for anyway. This isn't an AxeFX/Kemper replacement and isn't meant to be. 

I'll never understand why folks don't get that similar products can exist in the marketplace and that it's actually a good thing. 

Suhr makes an amazing Strat. Does that mean that Fender needs to make a better Strat to stay competitive? Nope. 

I'm an AxeFX user and still think this is awesome. Heck, I have a POD HD too that is great. Just like I dig both my UVs and JP7s.


----------



## Spinedriver

Every modeller I've ever bought I got 3 or so years after the initial release. Since I don't play in a band anymore, dropping over $2K on a processor is not going to happen. Even $1K would be pushing it. I will say though that to this day I'm still 100% satisfied with my GSP1101 and Pod X3. Between the amp models and the IR loading of the 1101, I'd be pretty hard pressed to sell them off for something new (especially that I probably wouldn't get more than $500 for the both put together).

Amp selection aside, a few things I think the Helix does have going for it are:

1. They've massively improved the eq options (ie: the 10 band eq)
2. The quality of the IR loader is pretty impressive as the 1101 can only handle 44.1 KHz.
3. It looks as if they've finally added to the overdrive section. I think that the OCD and Klon models will be very welcome additions. As far as I know up until now, the only really useful 'amp boosters' have been the Screamer and Tube Drive.
4. The multiple fx loops will be insanely helpful for those that have pedals that they may want to isolate into their own channel.

So if/when I can find one sub $1,000, then I might start thinking about moving some gear around to make room for one.


----------



## mnemonic

I remember back when I had my PodXT, I didn't so much care about the list of amps, since most of them sounded terrible to me. Yeah, there were a ton of amps, but in my opinion many were unusable. I was of the opinion that I would prefer a few, really fleshed out, quality models over a bunch of mediocre models and a couple gems. 

However, in this day an age, I think its too late for that. Axe and Kemper have shown that a unit can have both quantity and quality. 


As for the arguments on what this will compete with, I suppose it doesn't really compete directly with the axe due to it being quite a bit cheaper, however there are certain to be people out there whose needs can be fulfilled by the Helix and will decide against an Axe FX because of that. So I think it does compete to an extent. 

The Kemper is probably a closer competitor, since, based on what pricing info we have so far, a Kemper + Floorboard is similar in price to what the Helix + Floorboard will cost, at least here in the UK. In fact, chances are, the UK/Europe price will be quite a bit more than the US price anyway, so it may end up costing more than Kemper + Floorboard. 

I'll be interested in seeing what the final decision is on the price and features included in the AX8 when it comes out. I stopped following the thread a while ago, so I'm not sure if anything concrete has been said yet. However I guess it will probably be in direct competition. Main differences will likely be pretty color UI vs utilitarian UI, and perhaps a focus on less features with better sound on the axe. Though I only guess at that, since if they're both running the same DSP's (which Line 6 has inferred they do) that puts certain limits on performance. IIRC the AX8 will only run one amp and two cabs at once, where the Helix is said to run four amps and eight cabs at once. One could infer that the Helix is using lower quality models that don't use as much DSP. Though maybe they have some revolutionary way of writing their algorithms, I don't know.


----------



## celticelk

^^^ "Model quantity" comparisons against the Kemper are really unfair, IMO. The Kemper isn't a modeler in the same sense as the AFX and Helix; it's more like an IR sampler-and-playback system. It can have as many or as few models as the user community generates, but it's *users* generating them, not the software engineers.


----------



## sevenstringj

lewis said:


> an excellent post about this taken from The Gear page's thread on this
> 
> 
> "RE: My disappointment with the amp models:
> 
> I totally get that you have an in-house stash, and you didn't want to ignore obvious treasure. You own the amps and could spend unlimited time with them. Great.
> 
> But while this unit was not CONCEIVED as a competitor to Axe-FX and Kemper, the reality is its release date and price make it one. It is verrrry competitive in soooo many areas.
> 
> That makes the stale amp selection all the more damaging. Axe-FX's latest firmware has 217 amp models, and it has onboard tonematching. Kemper is essentially limitless. I don't see 38 - even very well-captured - basic amp models as being competitive to that.
> 
> Does the range of models in Helix cover MOST territory? Absolutely. Even the 10 amp models in Atomic Amplifire covers most modern guitar territory. But there is such a thing as "the long tail"....that last 10 percent of niche sounds that someone doesn't use all the time...bu when they want it, they gotta have it and won't consider a platform without it. It's like when I was on Windows Phone for a few years during the surge of popularity of Android and iOS. Microsoft would always brag how they finally caught up to their competitors in the big apps that covered the vast majority of what people used - Facebook, Instagram, Candy Crush, etc. But the platform remains a distant third to this day because they are perpetually behind on the smaller things. When my oldest son's little league manager communicated schedules and scores...he did it through a popular app, TeamSnap, that is only on iOS and Android. When he started first grade this past fall, the teacher used a great classroom management app to communicate with parents and let us check his behavior and academics in real time on a daily basis.....it wasn't on Windows Phone.
> 
> Windows Phone covered the "vast majority" of what I would need to do, and yet where it fell short mattered, so I switched back to Android.
> 
> Similarly here, most guitarists' needs are covered by a good Fender, Vox, Marshall, Dual Recto, and 5150 sims. But there are many popular flavors outside of that pantheon. Friedman HBE has something a little different than a Plexi or even a boosted Plexi. Mesa Mark IV amps have a tonality that can't be recreated by just tweaking a Rectifier. Randall Satan and Fryette amps have a dry, punchy high gain character that you can't easily contort a 5150 into. Marshall's JVM amps are more than just a tweaked JCM800. Orange's modern range (Rockerverb, Dark Terror, OH100) is outside of all of that with its own thing. PRS Archon and EVH 5150 III are modern marvels that have made quite the sensation, and you can't just stick an EQ in front of a Recto or 5150 to recreate them. Having a detailed sim of either one of those would be HUGE get. People want Dumbles or Gibson L5s or any number of oddball choices. Fractal offers a lot of custom models that were conceived for their architecture. Can you say that the Epic, Elektrik and Doom were conceived from the ground up for the HX engine? Was there not even a thought to make ONE Line 6 model that was exclusive to Helix? Did no one think to resurrect the long dormant amp models from the X3 range (e.g. Diezel herbert, Diezel VH4, Cornford MKII 50)?
> 
> Your competitors offer either models or tonematching of ALL of the above. You don't. (Neither does Amplifire, but it's so much less, it doesn't have to compete on this front)
> 
> And I get that you see this as 1.0, and want to get it out there and then grow after the fact. But you only get one chance to make a first impression, and this isn't a good one. You've already seen in this thread and elsewhere that other people don't want to give Line 6 a chance because of past experiences or preconceived notions. Everything about Helix refutes those things...except for the amp selection.
> 
> I don't doubt these are good sounding models. But you don't have the benefit of being known for constant after-release amp model development, so it's tough for one to believe that a flood of new models are coming for Helix after one drops $1500 on it at release. After all, if you don't add a single new model at launch, what are the odds that you have 10 or 20 never before modeled amps waiting in the wings in the next few months?
> 
> Like I said, I love you and root for your success. But I see this as a dealbreaker, ultimately"



tl;dr translation: "I can't afford an AxeFX. And I'm mad that you didn't make me a Line 6 AxeFX for $1500, which I can't afford either."


----------



## bhakan

celticelk said:


> ^^^ "Model quantity" comparisons against the Kemper are really unfair, IMO. The Kemper isn't a modeler in the same sense as the AFX and Helix; it's more like an IR sampler-and-playback system. It can have as many or as few models as the user community generates, but it's *users* generating them, not the software engineers.


I disagree. Obviously, for every model Line 6 adds, it adds a lot of R&D, while Kemper made one algorithm and then lets users do the rest, but in the end, all that matters to a customer is how many amps they get. At the end of the day, one of the main selling points for a modeller is the ability to have every sound you could want at your fingertips, and people are saying that this doesn't fulfill that as well as the Kemper (or Axe FX).


----------



## lewis

celticelk said:


> ^^^ "Model quantity" comparisons against the Kemper are really unfair, IMO. The Kemper isn't a modeler in the same sense as the AFX and Helix; it's more like an IR sampler-and-playback system. It can have as many or as few models as the user community generates, but it's *users* generating them, not the software engineers.



your exactly right, I think thats precisely why Im so enamored with it.

Modelers like the Axe and the Pod seem on paper a more obvious way to go about the digital amp world. The kemper however is so unique and so innovative that I can see that its a revolutionary Guitar product that has likely changed the path of equipment going forward for the better.

As tech as everything else is these days, it still seems to me that the kemper is way ahead of its time or something. Just incredible. I love my Pod HD and its features etc. But comparing what these Modelers do, to the Kemper is wrong. I agree with you. 

For me personally, especially considering the price, the Kemper is still the thing that suits me personally more. Not to say I dont love how the Helix looks mind you.


----------



## celticelk

bhakan said:


> I disagree. Obviously, for every model Line 6 adds, it adds a lot of R&D, while Kemper made one algorithm and then lets users do the rest, but in the end, all that matters to a customer is how many amps they get. At the end of the day, one of the main selling points for a modeller is the ability to have every sound you could want at your fingertips, and people are saying that this doesn't fulfill that as well as the Kemper (or Axe FX).



The flip side of that for the Kemper is that you can spend (waste?) an awful lot of time hunting down various profiles, and A/Bing profiles of the same amp model to see which one you like marginally better, and trying to decide if it's really worth paying for a couple of third-party profiles which aren't available for free in the user community.... You get the picture. Some gearheads will thrive in that environment, but others (*raises hand*) would rather just ask "Did you build in a great JCM800 model? What about a JC120? OK then, let's get on with it."


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I'm a pre amp-power amp-4x12 guy and I found the HD500x pre models were pretty useful and sounded great live. If I buy this one, I wouldn't be able to maximize its full potential (IR loading, frfr integration, reamping, etc). I'll just be using it as a live floorboard. I'm sure the pre models on this one will be much improved. That's why I'm still on the fence. 

I'm still waiting on the AX8. That seems to be an axefx made for live performance.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Not sure where some folks are coming from on pricing. 

Here is the breakdown, for the US at least:

Helix (all in one version): $1500 
Kemper (non-powered) + floorboard: $2580 
AxeFX (current, new model) + MFC101: $3250

Folks can get pedantic about form factor, but all three options there yield the same functionality. It's not Line 6's fault the others don't have a more affordable all-in-one option, yet. 

Even without an endless amount of amps, if the HX models are better than the current HD generation (which are actually pretty great), even if they're not 100% Fractal quality, the Helix will be worth every penny. 

Half the price, 90% the tone is a good place to be in.


----------



## mikah912

sevenstringj said:


> tl;dr translation: "I can't afford an AxeFX. And I'm mad that you didn't make me a Line 6 AxeFX for $1500, which I can't afford either."



Nah, bruh. I mean, you definitely got the "didn't read" part down pat. 

I simply said that I think the unchanged amp lineup is a letdown and a dealbreaker for me. It is.

MaxofMetal said the Helix is a great deal, and it is. I argued much the same earlier in this thread. They're not mutually exclusive. It's a great product with a significant flaw that makes it not viable for me _at this moment_. Money has nothing to do with it.


----------



## mikah912

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure where some folks are coming from on pricing.
> 
> Here is the breakdown, for the US at least:
> 
> Helix (all in one version): $1500
> Kemper (non-powered) + floorboard: $2580
> AxeFX (current, new model) + MFC101: $3250
> 
> Folks can get pedantic about form factor, but all three options there yield the same functionality. It's not Line 6's fault the others don't have a more affordable all-in-one option, yet.
> 
> Even without an endless amount of amps, if the HX models are better than the current HD generation (which are actually pretty great), even if they're not 100% Fractal quality, the Helix will be worth every penny.
> 
> Half the price, 90% the tone is a good place to be in.



I totally agree, sir. Made the same points earlier. That being said, I just want at least the promise of more amp variety in the immediate future before I personally jump onboard.


----------



## Glass Cloud

Too lazy to read about this atm but so what exactly is this? Is it just a way better pod like the axefx or is it like a pod that can also "copy" amps like kemper?

Either way this thing sounds cool, not a fan of the looks though. And I just got a 500x that I still have two payments on lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Glass Cloud said:


> Too lazy to read about this atm but so what exactly is this? Is it just a way better pod like the axefx or is it like a pod that can also "copy" amps like kemper?
> 
> Either way this thing sounds cool, not a fan of the looks though. And I just got a 500x that I still have two payments on lol



I'd tell you, but you might be too lazy to read my comment.


----------



## mikah912

celticelk said:


> The flip side of that for the Kemper is that you can spend (waste?) an awful lot of time hunting down various profiles, and A/Bing profiles of the same amp model to see which one you like marginally better, and trying to decide if it's really worth paying for a couple of third-party profiles which aren't available for free in the user community.... You get the picture. Some gearheads will thrive in that environment, but others (*raises hand*) would rather just ask "Did you build in a great JCM800 model? What about a JC120? OK then, let's get on with it."



That's totally cool. For me, I like active development and the chance to play close approximations of some contemporary amps (e.g. Mark V, 5150 III, Archon, Satan) in an advanced modeling architecture that negates me having to get a 4x12.

If other people just want a Plexi, Recto, JCM and a Blackface....cool. I think there's value in capturing variations - and dare I say, improvements - on those "master amps". Friedman Amplification is making my favorite "Plexi" right now, not Marshall. I think the PRS Archon or Randall Satan is the best "Recto"-type amp on the market. 

It'd be great if Line 6 could cater to both at this price point...as their competitors are doing. Either way, I think they will be successful.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mikah912 said:


> It'd be great if Line 6 could cater to both at this price point...as their competitors are doing. Either way, I think they will be successful.



That's part of the point I was making. Neither Kemper or Fractal are catering to anyone at Line 6's price point.


----------



## bhakan

celticelk said:


> The flip side of that for the Kemper is that you can spend (waste?) an awful lot of time hunting down various profiles, and A/Bing profiles of the same amp model to see which one you like marginally better, and trying to decide if it's really worth paying for a couple of third-party profiles which aren't available for free in the user community.... You get the picture. Some gearheads will thrive in that environment, but others (*raises hand*) would rather just ask "Did you build in a great JCM800 model? What about a JC120? OK then, let's get on with it."


I totally agree with all that. I'm not saying there isn't value in the Helix. If the sims are indeed Axe/Kemper quality, it seems like it will cheaper, simpler, and easier to use. Some will like that and others won't. My point was just that it is totally fair to compare the number of amps available to the Kemper. It does lose compared to the other big names as far as the number of amps, though it has its own set of advantages.


----------



## celticelk

mikah912 said:


> It'd be great if Line 6 could cater to both at this price point...as their competitors are doing. Either way, I think they will be successful.



What do you mean by "at this price point?" Max just showed that the Fractal and Kemper equivalents are at least a thousand dollars more than the Helix floorboard (on a post you responded to, so I know you've seen it). The "point" that encompasses all three of those is the size of a Buick.


----------



## mikah912

Let me clarify, Max and Celtic.

$1500 is moving into the same market segment - not price point - of Fractal and Kemper. 

That's a great thing! Helix is a great value. No question. It's a Liquid Foot Pro with an incredible modeling engine with loadable IRs crammed into it...for just a bit more than the price of a Liquid Foot Pro. 

I just think you don't take the selection of ANYTHING (amps, stomps, IRs, FX, routing options) on your $500 product and transfer it unchanged to your $1500 product. They clearly agreed on every single aspect of Helix....but the amps.

The more expensive the product, the less you should have to compromise. $1500 is the modeling price point where I think choosing "quality" over "quantity" isn't feasible. You should get both.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mikah912 said:


> $1500 is moving into the* same market segment* - not price point - of Fractal and Kemper.



I don't think that's at all accurate.


----------



## JohnIce

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure where some folks are coming from on pricing.
> 
> Here is the breakdown, for the US at least:
> 
> Helix (all in one version): $1500
> Kemper (non-powered) + floorboard: $2580
> AxeFX (current, new model) + MFC101: $3250



In the EU, the non-powered Kemper is roughly 1600 and when importing american products the cost usually lands at around =$ in the end. So the Helix will likely also be around 1500-1600 here depending on VAT and stuffs. I can't help but feel like for us europeans these two products are indeed in the same price bracket. Maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from.


----------



## Electric Wizard

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure where some folks are coming from on pricing.
> 
> Here is the breakdown, for the US at least:
> 
> Helix (all in one version): $1500
> Kemper (non-powered) + floorboard: $2580
> AxeFX (current, new model) + MFC101: $3250


I think the issue is that people are all approaching this from different perspectives. The Helix is awesome if you need the floorboard. If you won't buy used, it's awesome. If you just want something that sits on your desk, it becomes a competition between the $1500 Helix and ~$1700 or $1800 for used Fractals/Kempers.

I totally agree that they're different devices with different niches, but at the same time they are all boxes that make guitar sounds that you _can_ buy for relatively close amounts of money, so people are going to treat them as competitors.

Anyways, I really hope that the Helix is great. A lot of this discussion seems moot when we have only the promo and the Sweetwater demo to go off of. I'd love to see Line6 get anybody from their Pod Metal Pack video to demo this. It really looks like it has everything I ever wanted as a Pod user.


----------



## lewis

Also, with a kemper someone is surely going to profile these Helix amps if they are any good meaning we would get access to them anyway even buying a kemper haha.


----------



## bhakan

Right now there is a huge gap in the modelling market as far as pricing. There are the <$1000 modellers like the Pod, and the >$2000 modellers like the Axe FX. This is really the only current modeller in the $1000-$2000 range.

I think there is some truth though to competing with the Axe FX. Every single modeller right now is compared to the Axe FX, and while the Helix is a lot cheaper, $1500 is still a lot of money and I think there will probably still be a significant group who will be deciding between the two.


----------



## celticelk

Here's an interesting statistic: by my count from the Axe FX II firmware release notes, 109 new amp models have been added to the device since its release. Maybe comparisons between the Helix at release and the Axe II as it exists today should take that into account.


----------



## Spinedriver

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not sure where some folks are coming from on pricing.
> 
> Here is the breakdown, for the US at least:
> 
> Helix (all in one version): $1500
> Kemper (non-powered) + floorboard: $2580
> AxeFX (current, new model) + MFC101: $3250
> 
> Folks can get pedantic about form factor, but all three options there yield the same functionality. It's not Line 6's fault the others don't have a more affordable all-in-one option, yet.
> 
> Even without an endless amount of amps, if the HX models are better than the current HD generation (which are actually pretty great), even if they're not 100% Fractal quality, the Helix will be worth every penny.
> 
> Half the price, 90% the tone is a good place to be in.



The prices are even higher here in Canada. 

Even more, if I'm going to spend that kind of money on something I'd like to be able to try it out first if at all possible. So in that respect, many people looking to buy one of the three will most likely be tempted to try the Helix first because there's a good chance they'll be able to find one at a local store as opposed to the other two where you have to order online (and in some cases even have to sit on a waiting list). Mind you, as far as I know Kemper gear is sold in some stores but it's not even close to being as readily available as Line 6 gear is.


----------



## sevenstringj

mikah912 said:


> Nah, bruh. I mean, you definitely got the "didn't read" part down pat.
> 
> I simply said that I think the unchanged amp lineup is a letdown and a dealbreaker for me. It is.
> 
> MaxofMetal said the Helix is a great deal, and it is. I argued much the same earlier in this thread. They're not mutually exclusive. It's a great product with a significant flaw that makes it not viable for me _at this moment_. Money has nothing to do with it.



Do you own an AxeFX or Kemper? Do you own a POD HD?


----------



## vibrantgermancities

JohnIce said:


> In the EU, the non-powered Kemper is roughly 1600 and when importing american products the cost usually lands at around =$ in the end. So the Helix will likely also be around 1500-1600 here depending on VAT and stuffs. I can't help but feel like for us europeans these two products are indeed in the same price bracket. Maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from.



My thoughts exactly. Based on my experiences of US prices translating over here, this is going to end up near-enough the same price as a Kemper.

That said, there is no point judging this until I've tried it in person. Not based on anyone's YouTube vids. Not based on a spec sheet. No point whatsoever.


----------



## mikah912

celticelk said:


> Here's an interesting statistic: by my count from the Axe FX II firmware release notes, 109 new amp models have been added to the device since its release. Maybe comparisons between the Helix at release and the Axe II as it exists today should take that into account.



If I subtract 109 from the current 217, that leaves 108.

Compared to 38, my point remains the same. To be perfectly fair, the HD platform only launched with 15-17 amps. 5 years later, there are about 40 if you count all paid expansion packs, but they are padded with redos of the XT originals and multiple channels of the same amp (Plexi, Soldano).

Still, Line 6 does far more after product enhancement than any other consumer-grade manufacturer. I give them that.


----------



## mikah912

sevenstringj said:


> Do you own an AxeFX or Kemper? Do you own a POD HD?



Don't want any of them right now. I've had a Pod HD. It was ok. If I drop $2K on anything right now, it'll be a vacation for my myself, my wife and my boys, 7 and 3. In fact, that's exactly what I'm doing before they have to go back to school in 6 weeks.

I do have priorities.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Electric Wizard said:


> I think the issue is that people are all approaching this from different perspectives. The Helix is awesome if you need the floorboard. If you won't buy used, it's awesome. If you just want something that sits on your desk, it becomes a competition between the $1500 Helix and ~$1700 or $1800 for used Fractals/Kempers.
> 
> I totally agree that they're different devices with different niches, but at the same time they are all boxes that make guitar sounds that you _can_ buy for relatively close amounts of money, so people are going to treat them as competitors.



That's all well and good, but the Helix will be used as well at some point, so acting like you're always going to be comparing a new Helix to a used Kemper/Fractal is very temporary. 

So, lets say in one months time, post-release:

Used Helix AIO: ~$900 (which is on the higher side if you look at typical Line 6 depreciation) 
Used Kemper: ~$1700
Used AxeFx: ~$1700

And that $1700 is without any kind of floorboard. 

Why can't folks just admit that the Helix is significantly cheaper than the Kemper/Fractal stuff? The one exception, and only to the Kemper, is the EU where Kemper is based. 



celticelk said:


> Here's an interesting statistic: by my count from the Axe FX II firmware release notes, 109 new amp models have been added to the device since its release. Maybe comparisons between the Helix at release and the Axe II as it exists today should take that into account.



I don't know about that, I'm all for giving Line 6 the benefit of the doubt in regards to further amp development, but they don't exactly have a great track record in that regard.

I'd rather err on the side of caution and say they're pretty much always going to have an amp set similar to release day. 

I'd love to be proven wrong though.


----------



## mongey

I don't think 38 amps is a terrible thing. I have an axe xl and probably only use 15 of the amps regularly.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Something I definitely plan to do when this is released is go to the local GC and try it out in comparison to my HD500X - dial in patches with identical settings, and see how they measure up.

But here's the thing - I feel the impulse loading is going to be a bigger player in how much people like this than we're taking into account. That was everybody's biggest complaint with the HD series, and what do a ton of people do? Run their HD into a DAW with an IR and get AMAZING tones, that I'd say are on par with Axe FX and Kemper stuff. Given that they have given us this option now, who knows what we'll get??

On the amp list thing - yeah, it's a little disappointing to see the list of the same amps again (And not including the Big Bottom - wft??) but honestly yeah, most people will be able to get away with just those amps. Would it be REALLY nice to see stuff like the Satan, or Archon, or some Diezels in there? .... yeah it would. But the amps in there already are pretty god damn great, too. They're classics for a reason, guys. How many metal albums over the past few decades have been recorded with a 5150 or a Recto, or combination thereof? WAY more than Satans, Archons, or Diezels combined, I'm sure.


----------



## mikah912

mongey said:


> I don't think 38 amps is a terrible thing. I have an axe xl and probably only use 15 of the amps regularly.



If I may ask, what are they?


----------



## John_Strychnine

It's funny, the axe-fx clan comes out again trying to justify how it's much better than this BEFORE anyone has even tried it. 

If line 6 has got this right (which I really really hope they have, because the pod xt still rules hard) then I'm pretty sure we're going to see more people jumping back to line 6. I find the line 6 stuff on the higher gain stuff to be more 'In your face' than the fractal/kemper stuff and i also believe that the cleans are more chimey for my tastes. but that's *MY* personal preference. 

I heard about this unit around 4 months ago, I've been pretty stoked since. I should have one to try in a short amount of time. 

Also more amps doesn't necessarily mean better. I'd honestly rather pay for 5 good usable amp sounds that i'm going to use, than 208 that I won't. I paid around $1500 for 4 channels on an ENGL Savage SE a few years ago, which was one sound, I don't understand the butt hurt about 30 amp sounds for $1500 in all honesty.


----------



## Lain

"More amps we need more amps or i won't buy this!"

Seriously. No one of you have even heard the Helix or tested. 
Give me quality over quantity any day. If you have a choice of 30 amps and still can't get your sound, you are probably doing something wrong or you are playing in an absolute niche market, which no modeler caters to anyways.

Regarding the Kemper i found that almost all of the profiles i was interested in were not free.

That's what i like about the Axe FX II. You buy it and have everything. No DLC or subscription based bullcrap. Everyone gets the same updates and amps.


----------



## celticelk

mikah912 said:


> multiple channels of the same amp (Plexi, Soldano)



Just for clarity on this particular point: the 217-amp count on the AFXII also includes multiple channels of the same amp as separate models - it's not 217 unique amps.


----------



## celticelk

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know about that, I'm all for giving Line 6 the benefit of the doubt in regards to further amp development, but they don't exactly have a great track record in that regard.
> 
> I'd rather err on the side of caution and say they're pretty much always going to have an amp set similar to release day.
> 
> I'd love to be proven wrong though.



Granted. The point I was trying to make is that the Axe didn't ship with all of those models, and so comparisons of that number to the Helix's models-at-shipping number are somewhat unfair. mikah makes a fair point that the Axe's shipping number was still substantially higher, but I'd still argue that price point and the other differences in feature set should be taken into account. 1/3 the number of amps, but with an included floorboard and much more sophisticated effects routing... that starts to seem like a reasonable tradeoff, if you can get past a one-dimensional "how many amps" assessment.


----------



## big_aug

We should all be rooting for Line 6. Competition at the high end is good for us. We'll get better products for less money.

I really hope its good. I liked the HD500 a lot. I have a tube amp now and absolutely hate it. I loved having everything in one box. Amps, effects, looper, recording, headphones, etc all from one floor board. If it's solid, I'll drop my 6505+ for sure. I've already sold off some stuff to make a large down payment on a Helix if the reviews are good. Being able to easily try it myself will also be great.


----------



## Axe Cop

According to a line 6 guy on TGP there are no plans to charge for updates or amp/fx packs.

I think this unit offers a hell of a lot more than just amp sims and for the hardware and features you're getting a lot of bang for your buck.

Its kind of sad people are already downplaying this when all we have is a super early preview. The more competition the better. I think after the Yamaha/Line 6 deal and what we saw in the THR series amps there is no reason this shouldn't sound great. 

DigiTech, Boss, Zoom and Behringer all need to step it up now. Competition is a great thing for consumers.


----------



## mikah912

It's - without a doubt - the best bang for the buck product out there. I don't downplay that. 

I just want more amp variety. Sure, Recto, JCM800 and 5150 are classics for a reason. So are Les Pauls and Strats. Same for the Tubescreamer. Or a JB and an EMG 81/85. No one "needs" more than that for heavy music, yet we all are enthused with and attracted to new amps, pedals, guitars and pickups.

We all like new and improved stuff. Maybe I'll get a Helix and use everything but the amp models? Dunno. It's so feature laden that it would still be worth the purchase.


----------



## bhakan

> AxeII which beats it by a mile





> ...It's - without a doubt - the best bang for the buck product out there.


I feel like we all have to calm down. We've heard like two demos.


----------



## mikah912

Let's say the amp modeling is complete garbage. Sub Pod 2.0.

It's a Liquid Foot Pro with a multi-IR loader with FX up the ying yang AND a recording interface w/reamping for $1500.

I can't think of a modeler that offers so much in one package, so I stand by that statement regardless of the modeling quality.

That being said...I'd be buying it for the amps and IRs. The rest wouldn't factor as much for me.


----------



## VacantPlanet

Sweetwater has a demo video up. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ

Not a whole lot mentioned in terms of sound. Why is it for almost every product that most places review they have some guy just playing blues? "Hi, this is Paul from Guitar World. Today I'm playing the 666 watt Dicksmasher played with the Super Pointy Guitars 7 String tuned to drop J. Here's some blues." 
But I digress, this looks pretty, and hopefully the sound matches. I'll wait for a proper metal demo before judging.


----------



## Electric Wizard

bhakan said:


> I feel like we all have to calm down. We've heard like two demos.


I wrote that AxeII beats the Helix by a mile in terms of amp selection, but you decided to delete that part of the sentence.

I agree, we need some more demos. I don't think anybody needs to calm down though, there have been some good discussions.


----------



## bloc

VacantPlanet said:


> Not a whole lot mentioned in terms of sound. Why is it for almost every product that most places review they have some guy just playing blues? "Hi, this is Paul from Guitar World. Today I'm playing the 666 watt Dicksmasher played with the Super Pointy Guitars 7 String tuned to drop J. Here's some blues."



Bwahahaha omg this is so true. Funniest comment I've seen in a while.


----------



## asher

VacantPlanet said:


> Sweetwater has a demo video up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ
> 
> Not a whole lot mentioned in terms of sound. Why is it for almost every product that most places review they have some guy just playing blues? "Hi, this is Paul from Guitar World. Today I'm playing the 666 watt Dicksmasher played with the Super Pointy Guitars 7 String tuned to drop J. Here's some blues."
> But I digress, this looks pretty, and hopefully the sound matches. I'll wait for a proper metal demo before judging.



Omg 

I may sig that when I get off my phone. I just lost it


----------



## QuantumCybin

VacantPlanet said:


> Sweetwater has a demo video up.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAGDCCdWjoQ
> 
> Not a whole lot mentioned in terms of sound. Why is it for almost every product that most places review they have some guy just playing blues? "Hi, this is Paul from Guitar World. Today I'm playing the 666 watt Dicksmasher played with the Super Pointy Guitars 7 String tuned to drop J. Here's some blues."
> But I digress, this looks pretty, and hopefully the sound matches. I'll wait for a proper metal demo before judging.



My guess would be because the metal community is quite the minority in terms of guitar players. The blues sound and that "classic rock" vibe is far more common than downtuned heavy ass riffage that makes you want to punch infants. I agree that I want to see a metal demo as well, but they're going to cater to the larger demographics first, which is minor pentatonic wankery in this case.


----------



## sevenstringj

An Avid Twelve Rack (or TwentyTwo Rack?) would make things interesting.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Maybe i am a dinosaur, but i like it simple. Good clean, edge-of-breakup, tight high gain for riffs and fluid high gain for soloing. Add chorus, reverb and delay and that's it. I own few stuff from line6 and i have love/hate attitute to it. Most of the time i tweak instead of playing. I've bought THR10x over year ago and i love it. It's simple, instant good sound. I enjoy playing more.
My point is that most of guitarists don't need too much amp sims and tweakability. It is just to confuse. It should be: turn on, put knobs at 12 o'clock and then fine tune already great sound. PODs and other modellers give us zillion average sounds without the true dynamics of a real amp in room. Maybe Kemper and Axe can deliver sensation of playing the real thing, but from my experience with l6 i wouldn't be so optimistic about the sound quality of their new gizmo. 
And seriously, do we need to talk so much about the equipment that is yet unavailable?
Meybe it is the proof that we are marionettes in the hands of the big company. We spread the news, advertise, provoke symptoms fatal illness called GAS ;-)


----------



## matt till

yknow I've thought about this the past couple days. went from hype, to skeptisism, back to hype, so on. 

After more thinking about my history with my own equipment, I figured that I might buy it or later models of this in the coming years if any.

To me, buying Line 6 is more of habit now. I started with a Spider IV I got for christmas when I was younger, soon saved up for a bean for giggles, and thought I would put money into a pod hd300 to see if recording was a thing I might do. Well it kinda fell through after about a year of owning the 300 until I got back into recording guitar music last summer and I put cash into the 500x last fall. I like the sound of my pod and maybe I'll reaaaallly like the sound of the Helix. Though it is pretty... I'm hoping it can at least take half as much abuse as my 300 did. 

I'm more on the side where I feel that other IRs are more of a taste thing (for me) because I'm so used to dialing in with the internal crap now. I'm generally interested in how my ENGL/Uber tones dial in that thing would sound in this guy. 

BUT i did see that AxeFX floor thingamajig and that's got my interest by the balls so...


----------



## Sumsar

When I first heard about this some days ago when this thread was posted, I was like "uhh maybe I should get back into the whole modeller thing". But after thinking about it and considering that all I really need these days is a dirty clean channel and a high gain death/black metal sound and I can get those just fine with either my Engl powerball or my 300$ Engl e530 preamp (brought used) with an OD in front - and both of those will sound better than any modeller ever will - and both of those can record silently at home.

If you use a ton of effects and alot of different gain settings I can see why a modeller would be nice, or if you are a bit newer to the game and would rather have 30+ amps rather than spend them all on one, because you haven't really developed a taste in amps yet.

I just think I am to old for this ....


----------



## Albionic

I'm pretty excited about this thing. Helix plus isp stealth could be the eventual successor to my vetta i've been looking for.


----------



## lewis

Also, wont Kemper profiles of the Helix get done and appear online for free download? So if it does sound great people who bought a kemper instead still gave access to it?


----------



## Mordacain

OK, so I just read this entire thread (which is quite a novelty for me) and that only occurred because there have been some great discussions aside from the obvious fanbois jibes.

Here are my :

The amp selection certainly doesn't suck and it would be pretty much everything I 'need' in a rig replacement option. That being said, I (like everyone else) would prefer a broader selection of amps; it's certainly not a deal-breaker for me (and I would imagine roughly 95% of the guitar player community as a whole going off actual amp sale numbers).

With that in mind, some points I thought of while reading through the thread:



Comparisons against the Kemper are rather pointless; they are not similar products in any respect other than as a device you plug a guitar into to make noise. Your individual use of either product might be towards the same end. Of course that is why there is a free market, you choose what fulfills your needs best!
This is not in the same market segment (at least not in the US) as Fractal or Kemper. I see market segments in $500 intervals: $0-$500 being entry level, $500-$1000 budget, $1000-$1500 intermediate, $2000 is pretty much where I see as the start of high-end, though really anymore that is $3000 and up.
As a value proposition, the IO routing / IR loading / crazy over-engineered foot controller make the $1500 palatable for me. Up until I saw the 4 effects send/return ports I was suffering from sticker-shock. Without those, I would see these in the $1K market. However, with those effects sends, I can actively select between incorporating an actual amp / preamp (say a Mesa Boogie Mark for instance since it's not included), my AMT Bulava, and my irreplaceable Blackout Musket with any combination of modeled / analog gear that I want. Incorporate the amp control and you're golden.
The ability to combine multiple amps makes up a bit for a lack of dedicated higain amp models. Hell, just running differently tweaked Recto models in the HD500 yielded some major tonal benefits. It might take more tweaking than some of you might want to put in, but at least the tweaking will be easy to perform, which is not something I can say necessarily applies to other modelers.
About the "incandescent light-bulb modeling" bit: they were probably referring to original Univibe units that operate based on a photocell. Those use lightbulbs as part of the optical circuit and different light bulbs made major changes to the sound. I did notice the Vibe sound in one of the demos was particularly impressive. Especially given how weak the modulation effects were in the HD / XT range (IMO of course).
All of that out of the way I'm pretty psyched. The demos so far obviously don't tell us much, but being an oldschool, volume-knob riding player I can say the dynamic change on the Plexi in the Sweetwater demo was pretty telling to me.


One last MAJOR point no-one has mentioned: it is a 100% certainty that these will be available to purchase using Zzounds / AMS payment plans, making that $1500 investment much more palatable to a struggling musician. I never would have picked up the DT25 / HD500 combo were it not for the 8 payment plan. I have no clue about the actual numbers of musicians that couldn't afford intermediate - basic high-end gear without those type of plans but I have to assume it's a number large enough that it bears consideration.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

imagine pairing this with a really nice pre amp pedal like a tightmetal pro or amt S2, then use the ir loader and effects. daaaamn! that would be a mighty fine rig for me.


----------



## Mordacain

MASS DEFECT said:


> imagine pairing this with a really nice pre amp pedal like a tightmetal pro or amt S2, then use the ir loader and effects. daaaamn! that would be a mighty fine rig for me.



That's exactly my plan. I've replaced pretty much everything with just an AMT Bulava and my small effects selection. Of course I can already run that into an IR plugin for DI recording but having a fully functional all-in-one unit has always been a dream of mine. The HD range didn't measure up so here's hoping this one does. If nothing else, I can incorporate it in my current setup as a master controller / effects / routing / IR solution.


----------



## lewis

Presumably, like with the Torpedo, your only going to be able to interact with their stock IRs regards to real time mic placement etc?
So I cant load in any custom IRs and then move around the mic placement to get an even better tone for myself?. If it could do this then thats unbelievably clever.


----------



## JohnIce

lewis said:


> Also, wont Kemper profiles of the Helix get done and appear online for free download? So if it does sound great people who bought a kemper instead still gave access to it?



Of course. There are Kemper profiles of all kinds of unexpected lower-end stuff, like Zooms, Marshall MG, various generations of POD, Rocktrons etc.

However, I wouldn't get a Kemper if you think modelers sound better. Then get the modeler, it'll be way more flexible and you don't have to wait for someone else to make a profile you like (which is a crap shoot with modelers). A Kemper's strength is that it will sound exactly like what you profile, which can be a $10.000 recording chain of tube amps and studio outboards if you can arrange that. But if the sound you want however comes from a product cheaper than the Kemper, then getting the Kemper seems to me like a terrible idea.


----------



## lewis

JohnIce said:


> Of course. There are Kemper profiles of all kinds of unexpected lower-end stuff, like Zooms, Marshall MG, various generations of POD, Rocktrons etc.
> 
> However, I wouldn't get a Kemper if you think modelers sound better. Then get the modeler, it'll be way more flexible and you don't have to wait for someone else to make a profile you like (which is a crap shoot with modelers). A Kemper's strength is that it will sound exactly like what you profile, which can be a $10.000 recording chain of tube amps and studio outboards if you can arrange that. But if the sound you want however comes from a product cheaper than the Kemper, then getting the Kemper seems to me like a terrible idea.



ah nice, thats what i hoped.
and yeah i agree. I already have the POD HD PRO which i dont intend to get rid of to cover all my modeler needs. I would add the kemper to replace my valve amp, cover all my recording needs and allow me to have a larger choice of rig choices. The HD Pro would be my band practice/live setup.


----------



## Spinedriver

lewis said:


> Presumably, like with the Torpedo, your only going to be able to interact with their stock IRs regards to real time mic placement etc?
> So I cant load in any custom IRs and then move around the mic placement to get an even better tone for myself?. If it could do this then thats unbelievably clever.



I can't see you being able to adjust the mic but I'm sure you'll be able to adjust the bass/mids/treble of it within the cab block itself, which is still pretty decent.


----------



## lewis

Spinedriver said:


> I can't see you being able to adjust the mic but I'm sure you'll be able to adjust the bass/mids/treble of it within the cab block itself, which is still pretty decent.



Yeah me either, would still be awesome if we could. But yeah EQ/High/low filer on the IR Block would be cool


----------



## celticelk

Initial list of effects (and also the routing blocks, which is pretty cool): Available effects - Helix - Line 6 Community


----------



## mongey

mikah912 said:


> If I may ask, what are they?



top of my head my go to's are

for clean sounds

jazz 120
usa clean
tx clean 
triptek clean 

dirt

usa lead
recto's
friedman HBE
JVM
the 2 splawns 

I mess with others but just in those I find more than enough options . too many really


----------



## mikah912

mongey said:


> top of my head my go to's are
> 
> for clean sounds
> 
> jazz 120
> usa clean
> tx clean
> triptek clean
> 
> dirt
> 
> usa lead
> recto's
> friedman HBE
> JVM
> the 2 splawns
> 
> I mess with others but just in those I find more than enough options . too many really



Of those 9 amp models you play, the Line 6 Helix is missing all of those listed (USA Lead=Mesa Mark) except for the Recto and JC-120.

That's pretty much why some aren't happy with the amp lineup in a nutshell.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mikah912 said:


> Of those 9 amp models you play, the Line 6 Helix is missing all of those listed (USA Lead=Mesa Mark) except for the Recto and JC-120.
> 
> That's pretty much why some aren't happy with the amp lineup in a nutshell.



But folks are acting like most of the amps missing aren't derivatives of what's already there. 

The Marshall models will get you about 90% of the way to the Friedman and Splawn tones, and there are enough EQ and effects, as well as IR loading, to make up the majority of the difference. 

I think folks are getting hung up on the models without considering what digital units like this excel in, creating whole worlds of tone regardless of what the signal chain would look like in person. 

Take a look at the NI Guitar Rig community, who by use of plain jane amps created all kinds of tones with little more than IRs, multi-rigging, and an EQ or two.


----------



## mongey

mikah912 said:


> Of those 9 amp models you play, the Line 6 Helix is missing all of those listed (USA Lead=Mesa Mark) except for the Recto and JC-120.
> 
> That's pretty much why some aren't happy with the amp lineup in a nutshell.



Personally I think line 6 may go micro transactions on the helix. Sell amps separately.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mongey said:


> Personally I think line 6 may go micro transactions on the helix. Sell amps separately.



I think someone quoted them saying they were specifically not going that route.


----------



## Fretless

MaxOfMetal said:


> Take a look at the NI Guitar Rig community, who by use of plain jane amps created all kinds of tones with little more than IRs, multi-rigging, and an EQ or two.



It's actually fairly scary how good some people are able to get guitar rig to sound.

Line 6 for what it offers is amazing. I imagine this product will do great.


----------



## mongey

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think someone quoted them saying they were specifically not going that route.




good to know, hadn't seen that 


where it stands now there isn't much else to decide till it actually hits the streets and we can hear raw demos of it . 36 amps could be great if they all soudn amazing,. though the list does look very familiar to anyone who has owned a HD 

as an axe fx owner I hope it does well . companies all borrow from each other and line 6 may have some innovations that get added to the fractal 

I will be very interested to see how their DSP holds up as I felt the HD500 was very under powered in that area


----------



## mikah912

MaxOfMetal said:


> But folks are acting like most of the amps missing aren't derivatives of what's already there.
> 
> The Marshall models will get you about 90% of the way to the Friedman and Splawn tones, and there are enough EQ and effects, as well as IR loading, to make up the majority of the difference.
> 
> I think folks are getting hung up on the models without considering what digital units like this excel in, creating whole worlds of tone regardless of what the signal chain would look like in person.
> 
> Take a look at the NI Guitar Rig community, who by use of plain jane amps created all kinds of tones with little more than IRs, multi-rigging, and an EQ or two.



I do consider the EQ and IR possibilities. I fully acknowledge this lineup of having a lot of the "mother" amps. Some are still outside of that lineup (e.g. Mesa Mark IIc+/IV), but sure....you could tweak and contort and get 80 or 90 percent of the way there....

But that's just it. The more you pay, the less you want to have to do that work to recreate the rigs you want. The more options you want provided for you. I mean, you can contort an HD500x with a EPSI IR loader very close to Kemper and Axe-Fx sounds too. Same goes for an Amplifire. 

I go for $1000 more than those solutions, I want it served to me. I fully acknowledge the amazing value and convergence of Helix. I want the amp modeling variety to increase too.


----------



## imijj

edsped said:


> I don't know about that. I wouldn't really consider either a good investment since there's gonna be heavy depreciation both ways. Beyond that, it comes down to personal needs and applications.



What? A good tube amp will still be a good tube amp in 20 years.

A high end modeler will be obsolete/broken in 10 years.


----------



## imijj

mikah912 said:


> Doesn't this hold true for every consumer electronics device in the world? I assume you own a smartphone and HDTV



This is a horrible analogy. HD Televisions aren't modelling analog technology. Neither are smart phones.


----------



## imijj

mongey said:


> It's all an opinion dude. There are many musicians who thinks it's crazy to be stuck in what was the norm 60 years ago. That we should try to innovate.
> 
> The great thing is we have great tube amps and great modeling gear these days. People can choose their platform.



This makes no sense. If you want to innovate you probably shouldn't be trying to model technology from the early-mid 20th century.


----------



## Emperoff

After reading the entire thread I can't help but laugh. 

I mean, people heavily complaining about ONLY having 45 amps. Dunno about you guys, but I only have ONE and I can get plenty of tones out of it  Sorry but all this rage about not having some random boutique amplifier that you probably never heard/played in person is just silly.

Back in the day, people only needed "clean", "crunch", "dist" and "lead" to cover all bases. All of them could be satisfied by one amp or a combination of pedals. Now it seems that we can't make music with only 45 amps 

We live in the digital age where kids want everything and immediately at minimum expense. Chances are you can never have it all, can you? An absurd amount of options will only limit the time you spend with a particular element. Funny how modelers even add settings like "sag", "bias", etc which most people wouldn't ever touch on a real amp (because you have to open the amp to do it). 

The damn pedal ticks all the boxes and people is surprised it costs 1500$. What did you expect, a ton of features and improved amp models at POD HD500X price? As Max pointed out, the price differences with the Axe and the Kemper are enough to not place them in the same price segment. Bringing the "used" factor is even more stupid as you should then compare an used Axe to an used Helix to keep it fair.

Seriously, If you can't afford it wait till it gets on sale/used or just buy something else. C'mon, Opeth's tone comes from a Boss GT-6 and they sound amazing live.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

imijj said:


> A high end modeler will be obsolete/broken in 10 years.



Tell that to people still playing or owing Line 6 Flextones (gen 1), AxSys' (yes, they exist strangely ), gen 1 PODs, Johnson Milleniums, Yamaha DGs, etc etc...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Tell that to people still playing or owing Line 6 Flextones (gen 1), AxSys' (yes, they exist strangely ), gen 1 PODs, Johnson Milleniums, Yamaha DGs, etc etc...




There will come a time when the Line 6 Vetta will become a sought after amp! I can imagine people looking for that holy grail, vintage Meshuggah tone, honestly. Sort of people looking for Ampegs for that raw Suffocation/Dying Fetus grind.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mikah912 said:


> I do consider the EQ and IR possibilities. I fully acknowledge this lineup of having a lot of the "mother" amps. Some are still outside of that lineup (e.g. Mesa Mark IIc+/IV), but sure....you could tweak and contort and get 80 or 90 percent of the way there....
> 
> But that's just it. The more you pay, the less you want to have to do that work to recreate the rigs you want. The more options you want provided for you. I mean, you can contort an HD500x with a EPSI IR loader very close to Kemper and Axe-Fx sounds too. Same goes for an Amplifire.
> 
> I go for $1000 more than those solutions, I want it served to me. I fully acknowledge the amazing value and convergence of Helix. I want the amp modeling variety to increase too.



Implying AxeFX users don't go into super deep editing regardless of amp. 

As an AxeFX user I totally admit to over tweaking patches. 

I don't think there's such a think as an AxeFX user that just scrolls up an amp and just plays.


----------



## Steinmetzify

MaxOfMetal said:


> Implying AxeFX users don't go into super deep editing regardless of amp.
> 
> As an AxeFX user I totally admit to over tweaking patches.
> 
> I don't think there's such a think as an AxeFX user that just scrolls up an amp and just plays.



I'm the guy dude. I DL some, change levels to record and that's it. I'm really not a tweaker at all; can't be bothered when they sound this great. I got Fremen's presets and some from Mayalvr for high gain and don't really mess with them at all. 

Maybe overkill for what I do, but dude you quoted is kinda how I feel. I pay this much, I basically want recordable tones ready to go, and that's why I bought an Axe. I wonder how record ready this thing is going to be. I probably won't be buying it but it'd be cool as hell for people to be able to get those levels at that price new and in a floor board that's gig ready as is.


----------



## WarMachine

imijj said:


> A high end modeler will be obsolete/broken in 10 years.


........just 

What's this?





Early 90's Rocktron Chameleon?
Now, who's someone who still uses it?.....hm..




What?? Who's Six Feet Under??


----------



## ProphetOfHatred

The GSP1101 is probably 10 years old by now and sounds pretty good to me, only thing it's missing for me is reverse delay, and bigger sounding reverb. Like honestly with the settings on max on every reverb setting it doesn't sound half as big as reverb pedal demos I've heard with the mix at like 30-40%, no idea why. Modulated reverbs would be cool too.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Emperoff said:


> Bringing the "used" factor is even more stupid as you should then compare an used Axe to an used Helix to keep it fair.


That's a conversation to be having many months from now. At launch the Helix is absolutely within the price bracket of other used high end modelers. 

People can argue about the differences in features or applications of all of them, but it doesn't negate that. I assumed it went without saying that people are only going to consider other units if they meet their needs. Anyways, Line 6 doesn't make any money if everyone plans on buying used. They need sales on day one, whether or not that's to a different market segment remains to be seen. It's certainly got features that give it appeal outside of just amp modeling, maybe that's where the emphasis lies. Or maybe not, there's only two clips, maybe it'll be as impressive at that too.

I don't understand why this gets everyone's hackles up. I don't think anyone that wasn't trolling ever said anything beyond hoping it would be a competitive option in terms of their needs.


----------



## Spinedriver

ProphetOfHatred said:


> The GSP1101 is probably 10 years old by now and sounds pretty good to me, only thing it's missing for me is reverse delay, and bigger sounding reverb. Like honestly with the settings on max on every reverb setting it doesn't sound half as big as reverb pedal demos I've heard with the mix at like 30-40%, no idea why. Modulated reverbs would be cool too.



For that, I basically put a TC Hall Of Fame reverb in the loop.


----------



## mikah912

imijj said:


> This is a horrible analogy. HD Televisions aren't modelling analog technology. Neither are smart phones.



You're joking, right?


----------



## Harry

For purposes of comparison :

POD HD DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 333 MHz (KSZ-2A), 2.4 GFLOPS 

POD X3 DSP: SHARC ADSP-21369 at 266 MHz (KSZ-1A), 1.6 GFLOPS

POD XT DSP: at 60 MHz, 180 MFLOPS 

If the info being posted on the Fractal Forum is correct, the Helix is running the SHARC 21469, which runs a clock speed of 450MHz and delivers 2.7GFLOPS.
And of course the Helix is running TWO of these bad mothers (as does the AX8).


----------



## mikah912

Also, I think the basic point is getting muddled. No one is faulting Helix because it doesn't have "endless amp models" or have all of the sonic capabilities of an Axe-fx or Kemper. No one is saying they can't get great tone from it. I can get great tone from an HD500x. I can get it from a Johnson J-Station. I can get it from Amplitube 3, if I need to. No, I don't "need" any amps beyon the included range, just as most on this forum don't "need" an original Floyd Rose , pickups of the boutique variety, and any number of "high end" appointments on their gear.

It's no different than eyeing a $1800 Prestige Ibanez and wondering why they use the same pickups on their $500 model. I don't recall the point being made that one should "stop whining" and "stick to what you can afford". 

Increased price tags carry increased expectations for every facet of the item. That's all.


----------



## ProphetOfHatred

Spinedriver said:


> For that, I basically put a TC Hall Of Fame reverb in the loop.


 Yeah I'm gonna get probably a delay pedal and a reverb pedal at least to expand my rig. Eventually I want to go full pedalboard/amp/cab but that won't be for a while. I spend a lot of time trying to play ambient and honestly the GSP isn't really made for it, even though there's an "ambient" reverb algorithm.


----------



## Lain

Well, this thread certainly took an interesting turn.

I agree, for 1500$ you should be able to expect MUCH.
But ignoring the amp list for a moment, the feature list reads like the Helix will do everything. From reamping to 4 cable method to whatever niche trickery you might use.
And honestly if you achieve, for example, a Steve Vai sound using one of Line6's amps, no one will go to you and say "Uhm i saw on your screen that you used amp XYZ but Vai plays a Carvin Legacy!"

And again, no one here has really heard the Helix or played it.

I actually never wanted to give Line6 the benefit of a doubt again but i guess i will with the Helix. Loading 3rd party IRs alone give you so much abilities to change the tone.

But yeah... 1500$ for a line6 modeler.... guitar playing is too freaking expensive.


----------



## Albionic

I tend to look whats coming out and and if something good comes out i'll wait a few years to pick it up used. by rights i should be looking into original axefx standards but i just cant get excited about fractal gear because although its fantastic the user community is just so unpleasant. cruising the internet looking to bash any other modeller that comes out in a "my processors better than yours"(said voice of spoilt child) fanboy rage.


----------



## Lain

Albionic said:


> I tend to look whats coming out and and if something good comes out i'll wait a few years to pick it up used. by rights i should be looking into original axefx standards but i just cant get excited about fractal gear because although its fantastic the user community is just so unpleasant. cruising the internet looking to bash any other modeller that comes out in a "my processors better than yours"(said voice of spoilt child) fanboy rage.


But aren't the tube guys doing the same thing?
In so many modeler threads there are some tube guys joining in just to say that modelers are not for them. Completely ignoring the topic at hand or the questions asked they just enter a thread to announce that they don't like modelers and that tube amps are so much better than everything else there is.


----------



## DarthV

Spinedriver said:


> The prices are even higher here in Canada.
> 
> Even more, if I'm going to spend that kind of money on something I'd like to be able to try it out first if at all possible. So in that respect, many people looking to buy one of the three will most likely be tempted to try the Helix first because there's a good chance they'll be able to find one at a local store as opposed to the other two where you have to order online (and in some cases even have to sit on a waiting list). Mind you, as far as I know Kemper gear is sold in some stores but it's not even close to being as readily available as Line 6 gear is.



I'm glad I bought my Kemper when they were first released. And relatively cheap. Think mine was just over $1800 after taxes. And yeah, had to order it. No way L&M in NB would ever have one in stock


----------



## Tisca

I read through this thread and would appreciate someone explaining these to me:

1. "*IR loading"*
2. *"4 cable method"*


----------



## HighGain510

Here's my take on the Helix:

I will not fault a modeler for "only" having 30-40ish amp models if the 30-40 are DONE WELL and cover the bases for MOST guitarists. Would be it nice to have 200+? ABSOLUTELY. But it sounds like they've really taken the time with the Helix modeling to get it right (one man-month per amp! ), so I'll take that over 150+ models that I'll likely never touch or don't enjoy using. To be honest, having owned all of the prior Line 6 items just about (think maybe 1 or 2 I hadn't tried, like the old AxSys... ) I have never been totally blown away with the tone. That being said, if they really did put in the work on their new modeling (and they said they did something completely different this time around with a fresh team of developers) and it's 40 or so AWESOME tones, I could get on board with that. I really don't think Line 6 is targeting the "I need 200 amp models that I'll never use!!!" crowd for this product.  They put together a unit that has a flexible I/O interface, a very user-friendly controller loaded with features and claim the models provided are all extremely accurate with the new HX modeling technology for a reasonable price considering all of the stuff going into it.

The user interface and hardware for this unit are absolutely leaps and bounds above the competitions. The editable scribble strips on the board, the touch-sensitive footswitches, editing patches from the floorboard alone, easy access to routing and patch creation? ALL AWESOME.  That alone gets me excited for the unit. Seems very flexible to me, and if the inputs/outputs are low noise and fairly transparent, I could see this thing making for a great effects-only device as well akin to the Fractal FX8. I'm not delusional of course, I bet the FX8 audio quality will be substantially higher as far as the actual effects, transparency and noise floor goes, but the controller itself and user interface on the Helix wins hands down there, IMHO.

Again, I've owned every Fractal device up through the Axe-II XL and currently have a Kemper, so I'm not a fanboy from ANY modeling camp, I am pretty open-minded when it comes to digital stuff and I tend to dig them all for what they CAN offer, not hating them for what they can't.  I just don't get the vehement hatred some folks are throwing out with only TWO super short audio snippets having been released of the unit.  Wait for some more dry amp tone + cab ONLY clips to surface (which I'm sure they will, Digital Igloo has been seeing nothing but that posted on TGP so he knows what they want to see next ) and hopefully that will answer the question of what it sounds like for us at that point. I get it, you had bad experiences with other Line 6 products, duly noted. Hating on a BRAND NEW PRODUCT before you've heard it is a waste of time and energy, honestly.  I admire what they did from an interface and user experience perspective thus far as that's really all you can talk about yet, so we'll see what the audio quality piece looks like once they post more demos or some non-blues dad guys get their hands on one for a proper metal demo.

I posted on TGP asking DI to consider looking at adding some newer/more modern metal amps since they seem to continue going for the same old sh_i_t there (rectifier, 5150, fireball) when there are tons of new amps that would be KILLER for metal that they could add. Invader 100? EVH 5150 III 50w? Friedman BE/HBE/JJ models? Hell, even some more boutique stuff like Rhodes?  Lots of nice things that folks would LOVE to have, even if it's a "Metal Amp Pack" (and yes, coming from Fractal getting free amp model updates time and time again, I'm hoping Line 6 considers bundling the new amps [should any be coming down the pike] as a FREE update, personally-speaking @ $1500 I would hope that's the case since it's not like the units are $500 anymore... ) that won't be included at launch. I'll reserve judgement on this thing until I get my hands on it, but for now I'm cautiously optimistic as it's a new team and new management handling this. Line 6 Marketing/Hype machine has been a bit garbage in the past, but from the talks about development with ACTUAL team members, it really did sound like development for this was "Give us your wish list, combined with the wish list of users, and go make it happen." so perhaps Helix will be the Line 6 product people have been begging for over the last 10+ years.


----------



## HighGain510

Tisca said:


> I read through this thread and would appreciate someone explaining these to me:
> 
> 1. "*IR loading"*
> 2. *"4 cable method"*



IR Loading means using a cabinet impulse response file (i.e. sample of the output of a cabinet) so the amp model would go into a custom cabinet output file of your choosing instead of the stock Line 6 cabinet models. 4 Cable Method means running Guitar -> Cable -> front of Helix -> Cable -> front input of amp for one side and then another set of cables from the effects loop of the Helix into the effects loop of your amp. It allows you to send Drive and those types of effects into the front of the amp but keep modulation/time-based effects in the loop of the amp like delay and reverb.


----------



## Lain

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Impulse_response
I think they were first used for reverbs.

Before i knew what IRs are and asked, someone said they are like "Screenshots of sound".


----------



## Laimon

Well, if I could have that controller with the Kemper amp modeller and Strymon effects inside, that'd be great.


----------



## Shask

IMO, the issue with limited amp models also comes from the rest of what is available. For example, I always felt the HD500 was limited in high gain because there were only about 2-3 unusable high gain models. OK, I could live with that if the EQ options were awesome, but the EQs in the HD series sucked bad. Half of them wrecked your tone with zeroed out settings, and the other half that sounded good were so limited that you had to chain 3-4 of them together to accomplish anything, which used up all your slots. It was very frustrating.

Now, if we have limited amp models + good EQ models, you can compensate for lack of amp models. If we have FULL 5-Band Parametric EQs where you can use 2-3 of them, then it would be OK. I am interested in seeing how they implemented the EQs in the Helix, because that was one of the biggest complaints in the HD series.

I probably sound negative towards the Helix, but I'm really not! I hope that it is amazing! It looks like an awesome product. I am just skeptical after fighting with the HD500 for years with so much stupid $hit that could have easily been fixed.


----------



## asher

Laimon said:


> Well, if I could have that controller with the Kemper amp modeller and Strymon effects inside, that'd be great.



And it comes with a unicorn food dispenser built in for the unicorn pony you can get via mail in rebate.


----------



## Laimon

asher said:


> And it comes with a unicorn food dispenser built in for the unicorn pony you can get via mail in rebate.



Nah, I don't like ponicorns, they fart too much (although their farts smell of exotic fruits)


----------



## HighGain510

Shask said:


> IMO, the issue with limited amp models also comes from the rest of what is available. For example, I always felt the HD500 was limited in high gain because there were only about 2-3 unusable high gain models. OK, I could live with that if the EQ options were awesome, but the EQs in the HD series sucked bad. Half of them wrecked your tone with zeroed out settings, and the other half that sounded good were so limited that you had to chain 3-4 of them together to accomplish anything, which used up all your slots. It was very frustrating.
> 
> Now, if we have limited amp models + good EQ models, you can compensate for lack of amp models. If we have FULL 5-Band Parametric EQs where you can use 2-3 of them, then it would be OK. I am interested in seeing how they implemented the EQs in the Helix, because that was one of the biggest complaints in the HD series.
> 
> I probably sound negative towards the Helix, but I'm really not! I hope that it is amazing! It looks like an awesome product. I am just skeptical after fighting with the HD500 for years with so much stupid $hit that could have easily been fixed.



The demo vid showed the EQ section and you can add either a parametric or a 10-band EQ as one of the blocks. 







Personally between the added EQ options and IR loading, I get the feeling we're going to have WAY more flexibility on tone sculpting this time around. Now my biggest question is how good are the stock amp models provided...  EQ and Impulse Responses can only HELP something sound better, but if it's a turd right out of the box there's only so much those two things can do...


----------



## Shask

HighGain510 said:


> The demo vid showed the EQ section and you can add either a parametric or a 10-band EQ as one of the blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally between the added EQ options and IR loading, I get the feeling we're going to have WAY more flexibility on tone sculpting this time around. Now my biggest question is how good are the stock amp models provided...  EQ and Impulse Responses can only HELP something sound better, but if it's a turd right out of the box there's only so much those two things can do...



The HD had those also. BUT, the Graphic wrecked your tone when you used it (It changed the tone and distorted it), and the Parametric was only 1-Band with shelving. That means you had to use 3-4 of them to get a full EQ, which used up half of your available blocks. Plus you couldn't tell what the heck you were doing because they were all in % instead of hz.

The IR loading is cool of course, but I am someone that runs into poweramp/cab most of the time, so that is not as big of a concern to me.

I am also curious about how the amp models sound AND feel.


----------



## HighGain510

Shask said:


> The HD had those also. BUT, the Graphic wrecked your tone when you used it (It changed the tone and distorted it), and the Parametric was only 1-Band with shelving. That means you had to use 3-4 of them to get a full EQ, which used up half of your available blocks. Plus you couldn't tell what the heck you were doing because they were all in % instead of hz.
> 
> The IR loading is cool of course, but I am someone that runs into poweramp/cab most of the time, so that is not as big of a concern to me.
> 
> I am also curious about how the amp models sound AND feel.



I did see someone ask about the whole % thing on TGP, they said they realized that was dumb and it will now show in Hz, so at least that is one less thing to worry about.  Not sure what options the Parametric offers this time around as they haven't delved into that much detail yet and the beta guys have only shared a tiny bit about the devices as they're under the same sort of legal contractual obligations as guys like Digital Igloo are currently. Hopefully they give us more info soon!


----------



## Shask

HighGain510 said:


> I did see someone ask about the whole % thing on TGP, they said they realized that was dumb and it will now show in Hz, so at least that is one less thing to worry about.  Not sure what options the Parametric offers this time around as they haven't delved into that much detail yet and the beta guys have only shared a tiny bit about the devices as they're under the same sort of legal contractual obligations as guys like Digital Igloo are currently. Hopefully they give us more info soon!



That is good to hear about the hz.

Hopefully they improved on all of those stupid small things the HD failed at. This product definitely looks to have the ability to really raise the the bar. Heck, I still think the HD500 has to potential to corner the market (in that price bracket) if they would just fix the small things wrong with it. I will definitely be watching as more info comes out.


----------



## prozak

^HD500 still rocks indeed, but man you have to spend so much time to understand the way it works. I haven't recorded anything in the last few months just becouse of that eternal tweaking and re-tweaking, sometimes I just feel like my head is about to explode. I think my head would've probably exploded if I had an AxeFx....


----------



## Shask

prozak said:


> ^HD500 still rocks indeed, but man you have to spend so much time to understand the way it works. I haven't recorded anything in the last few months just becouse of that eternal tweaking and re-tweaking, sometimes I just feel like my head is about to explode. I think my head would've probably exploded if I had an AxeFx....



It is kind of funny. I used to tweak the HD500 for HOURS. When I switched to an Axe-FX II, I literally pull up an amp, dial a few controls, and I am done. You would think all the extra options would open up a tweak-he||, but it is actually the opposite. You dont have to spend time trying to dial around annoying stuff that doesn't work right.

I agree that you have to learn how the HD500 works, and learn how to work around the weird stuff to find the good tones. Things like the signal doubling based on input, digitally clipping any effect placed after the mixer, getting a smearing or blurred tone when running parallel paths due to the phase shift being off between amps, etc... just stupid stuff you shouldn't have to worry about.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Amp switching built in + 4 fx loops = win. I love that they seem to have made amp integration a top priority. 

Two more things ill need to know.....
1. How is the tone suck with 4cm?
2. Will we get a rack version?

Just as I get the pod hd working perfectly to control my rig, they offer the unit i REALLY needed from day 1. This looks great!


----------



## Shask

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Amp switching built in + 4 fx loops = win. I love that they seem to have made amp integration a top priority.
> 
> Two more things ill need to know.....
> 1. How is the tone suck with 4cm?
> 2. Will we get a rack version?
> 
> Just as I get the pod hd working perfectly to control my rig, they offer the unit i REALLY needed from day 1. This looks great!



There is a rack version on their website. It is the same price ($1499), with a $499 controller. It is 3 rack spaces.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Shask said:


> There is a rack version on their website. It is the same price ($1499), with a $499 controller. It is 3 rack spaces.



Thanks. They would REALLY be wise to make sure the fbv can at least change patches and operate the expression pedal. Already having a compatible controller is a huge sales grab....would make or break the sale for me right now.


----------



## androponic

From Line 6

Will the rack-mount unit have support for the current FBV controllers? NO

You wouldn't want to use an FBV anyway. The whole so-simple-you-already-know-how-to-use-it UX is intrinsically tied into the touch-sensitive footswitches, RGB switch LEDs, and scribble strip displays. Supporting FBV would radically alter how Helix Rack is laid out, and seriously slow down the process of creating tones.

Helix Rack with Helix Control behaves _exactly_ like Helix floor. That was a very top-level goal in its design.


----------



## HighGain510

Shask said:


> There is a rack version on their website. It is the same price ($1499), with a $499 controller. It is 3 rack spaces.



Another thing that should be noted (and I don't get why they opted to go this route...) was that on the Rack + controller rig, you lose the rocker pedal for the volume/wah/etc. for some reason.  Not sure why they felt that was a good idea, especially since you're paying $500 for JUST the footswitch, but that might be important to some folks! If/when I get one of these to try out, I'm going with the all-in-one unit as I don't need the extra I/O on the back and would greatly prefer having the rocker pedal for taking full advantage of the features on the unit.


----------



## Lain

I don't see why anyone would go for the rack version considering this, unless they buy it for a studio. But i guess a studio would go for the kemper or Axe Fx anyways.
Same price, no floor buttons and no pedal. Weird.


----------



## sevenstringj

Shask said:


> When I switched to an Axe-FX II, I literally pull up an amp, dial a few controls, and I am done. You would think all the extra options would open up a tweak-hell



It does. At least according to these guys.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

androponic said:


> From Line 6
> 
> Will the rack-mount unit have support for the current FBV controllers? NO
> 
> You wouldn't want to use an FBV anyway. The whole so-simple-you-already-know-how-to-use-it UX is intrinsically tied into the touch-sensitive footswitches, RGB switch LEDs, and scribble strip displays. Supporting FBV would radically alter how Helix Rack is laid out, and seriously slow down the process of creating tones.
> 
> Helix Rack with Helix Control behaves _exactly_ like Helix floor. That was a very top-level goal in its design.



That sucks. Basic level functionality would be fantastic. Obviously, all the bells and whistles would not be supported but frankly non of that is important to me as far as foot control goes- if i can change patches and use the expression pedal, i'd be all set for a gig - which is the important thing for a user that wants to integrate this into an amp. Legacy support for some very basic functionality should not have been too difficult, even if the unit has to completely convert the signals to another format on board (thereby allowing the 'clean slate' design of the helix).


----------



## bloc

I think it's hilarious how the Helix thread on the Fractal forum is like 3 times bigger than this one


----------



## mnemonic

MaxOfMetal said:


> Implying AxeFX users don't go into super deep editing regardless of amp.
> 
> As an AxeFX user I totally admit to over tweaking patches.
> 
> I don't think there's such a think as an AxeFX user that just scrolls up an amp and just plays.



I dunno, I very rarely touch any advanced parameters in mine. 

I have no problem getting great tones using just the basic eq, so I usually don't mess with any other controls. I was under the impression quite a few people use them like this, nowadays.


----------



## mnemonic

sevenstringj said:


> It does. At least according to these guys.




That was back when they were using ultras. The II is a different beast these days.


----------



## JohnIce

Lain said:


> I don't see why anyone would go for the rack version considering this, unless they buy it for a studio. But i guess a studio would go for the kemper or Axe Fx anyways.
> Same price, no floor buttons and no pedal. Weird.



Because it's a gamble having $1500 worth of electronics under your foot, next to the beer-spilling lunatics in front of the stage. If it's in a rack it's way, way more secure. Nobody climbs up and stage dives from a rack case on the back corner of the stage, for starters.


----------



## Spinedriver

ProphetOfHatred said:


> Yeah I'm gonna get probably a delay pedal and a reverb pedal at least to expand my rig. Eventually I want to go full pedalboard/amp/cab but that won't be for a while. I spend a lot of time trying to play ambient and honestly the GSP isn't really made for it, even though there's an "ambient" reverb algorithm.




If you're looking for deep, cavernous reverb, the HOF does deliver for sure. As for the "ambient" setting, it's referring to "room ambience" so you're not going to get much out of it aside from a very mild echo like effect. The HOF has that setting too, along with a "Toneprint" setting where, if you connect it to a pc, you can download a program that will allow you to make your own setting. 

Sadly, it's not capable of the "shimmer" that's quite popular with the Blue Sky, Supernatural and Neunaber Seraphim pedals but you can add chorus to it and have the reverb effect last as long as 30 seconds.


----------



## mongey

imijj said:


> This makes no sense. If you want to innovate you probably shouldn't be trying to model technology from the early-mid 20th century.



so taking all the sounds that are staples of guitar playing, making every component completely malleable and tweak able , designing a system where entire rigs be controlled with a single press of a foot switch and you can carry it into a gig with just a guitar isn't trying to innovate ?


----------



## DarrellM5

I'm really stoked about the Helix and already have it on my wishlist at Sweetwater. I figure I can overcome all of the problems mentioned so far in this thread through using the 4 effects loops, which can be moved anywhere I like in the signal chain. I'll just run my HD500X in one, an Axe FX in another, a Kemper in the 3rd and pedals in the 4th. Seriously though, I can't wait to get this and I will probably run the HD500X in an effects loop.


----------



## lewis

DarrellM5 said:


> I'm really stoked about the Helix and already have it on my wishlist at Sweetwater. I figure I can overcome all of the problems mentioned so far in this thread through using the 4 effects loops, which can be moved anywhere I like in the signal chain. I'll just run my HD500X in one, an Axe FX in another, a Kemper in the 3rd and pedals in the 4th. Seriously though, I can't wait to get this and I will probably run the HD500X in an effects loop.



I feel like the biggest douchebag. I cant believe i didnt even think about putting the HD Pro in the efx loop. Haha. Thanks for enlightening me.


----------



## Daemoniac

Not going to lie, I was actually tempted when I first saw this pop up... Still am a little. Gorgeous UI, but as with all things, looks are not everything.

Hope it works for them, though, really.


----------



## WhiteWalls

As a completely satisfied HD500 user, I Line6 can hit a huge jackpot if the Helix can do these 3 things right:

1) IRs: this is where the pods, even the HD500 were at their weakest. Having third party IRs means an enourmous jump in both overall quality and versatility for sounds. I swear to god the Pod HD has some models which are SPOT ON or even better (to my tastes) than the real amps they're modeling, Engl Fireball being the best of the bunch, so there's really no huge need for improvement in the quality of the single amps. Quantity is another story, but we should all remember that the Pod X3 had three times the amps but only a couple of them were any good, so I think that as long as the amp selection covers pretty much the whole spectrum of tones one may need, having "only" 25-30 is fine.

2) Being able to tweak live tones ON THE SPOT. This is something that even kemper and axe-fx can't really do well, you can make killer sounding patches but every room is different, every PA is different and something like a global EQ that lets you correct all the patches at once would be a godsend. The latest firmware of the Pod HD has something like this, although I never got to try it yet, so I think there's a good chance something similar will be in the helix. Also, this is where the clean and fluid interface plays a huge role, and it's not only for looks.

3) Having a way to set up vocals and guitar at the same time without losing your mind! I also sing in my band and the fact that the Pod HD lets you even do this is pretty incredible, however to do it you need to setup stereo patches and program every patch with the same vocal fx chain individually, which takes a lot of time and if you want to tweak something you have to do it for every patch. That line at the bottom in the Helix FX chain seems promising, and if it's indeed a separate vocal chain then I will buy it instantly.

tl;dr
Very promising if it can correct some issues I have with the Pod HD, but still not enough info to really make up my mind about it being worth the price.


----------



## John_Strychnine

JohnIce said:


> Because it's a gamble having $1500 worth of electronics under your foot, next to the beer-spilling lunatics in front of the stage. If it's in a rack it's way, way more secure. Nobody climbs up and stage dives from a rack case on the back corner of the stage, for starters.



Nope, I've had my head fall to the floor before from someone falling into my cab. Doesn't matter where anything is on stage.


----------



## DarrellM5

WhiteWalls said:


> 3) Having a way to set up vocals and guitar at the same time without losing your mind! I also sing in my band and the fact that the Pod HD lets you even do this is pretty incredible, however to do it you need to setup stereo patches and program every patch with the same vocal fx chain individually, which takes a lot of time and if you want to tweak something you have to do it for every patch. That line at the bottom in the Helix FX chain seems promising, and if it's indeed a separate vocal chain then I will buy it instantly.



The Helix has the ability to copy and paste patches. You could probably start with a dual signal patch where the guitar path is blank and your vocal path is set up how you like. Then just paste that patch to a new location as a starting point for each new preset.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

I am interested. I have an Eleven rack, and was thinking about picking up a second one as backup.

But then I see this. I also see they have a rack version of Helix.

I see it has IR loading, multiple amp models simultaneously, and ReAmping through USB, and has midi capabilities.

I basically have 2 questions left about it before it becomes qualified for me to use.

1. Does it have the ability to ReAmp a signal through Usb, while streaming the rest of the song (or mix) through the unit and out to the speakers? So I can dial in tone while ReAmping that will fit in with the mix that is playing simultaneously? My 11R has the ability to do this and was developed like 6 years ago, absolutely no excuse why this new Helix can't...

2. How is the sound quality of the Amps, and FXs themselves? This I realize is something that we will all have a better grasp on in the coming months, as people release some comparison videos between this unit, and the other top modelers. But it will have to be something substantially better than the Pod-HD lineup for the price they are asking if they want me on board, ESPECIALLY the high-gain/crunch (heavy) rhythm tones. Line 6 (even the HD series) always sounded a little thin, and fizzly for my particular tastes. I hope this has been improved!

I do see this thing having tons of patches for it after about a year, or so.


EDIT: I think it may actually have the ability I seek in my first question, as it does have 8x8 simultaneous input/ouputs over USB. So now I just need to find out how it sounds!


----------



## asher

I think if I hadn't been on the Axe train for a while now, this would be REALLY tempting to use with my rock band. Portable, covers everything well enough, since we don't really use high gain much?


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Abaddon9112 said:


> Well, if 50 years from now every computer on Earth has some weird new data port that's incompatible with USB, or if the chips in the thing are no longer produced, you'd be out of luck with trying to get it upgraded or repaired. But you could still plug an amp into a socket and run it. Provided tubes are still around. And they will be, cause there's quite a lot of NOS tubes from the 50s still around today.



In another 50 years, NOS tubes will be like hens teeth. Ruby and JJs will cost what Mullards do now and Mullards will be into four figures. And they'll sell for that, because there'll still be cork sniffers who believe they can tell what battery is in their bypassed tuner pedal.

The fact is, this is expensive because audio engineering in software is a market that's super, super heavy on R&D and where a lot of money goes into that development, and where there's heavy competition. In comparison, vintage style amp designs are based on technology that's upwards of half a century old and the prices of the components and materials differ for basically that reason.

Technology depreciates. The only tech that doesn't depreciate is that which is already obsolete enough to have stabilised. Amp prices don't stay the same because they're based on high tech, expensive componentry and cutting edge R&D - they stay the same because the legacy of 50s rock and roll keeps them artificially high. If you have the technical knowhow to build your own amplifier from scratch, you can build to a far higher standard than any production model for far, far less cost.

In fact, if you take away the chassis and transformer from a boutique amplifier design, you should be able to build the same amp yourself for nothing. Thousands of dollars in costs become hundreds. Scavenge a chassis and a transformer from something else and the cost differential is ridiculous even if you go for utter, utter overkill on component spec everywhere else. 

Even if you buy the transformer and chassis, they're expensive because of machining time and material cost, not technological superiority. (Also, notice how even the worlds best high power transformers are just OFC copper and not "cryogenically treated" or any other such snakeoil? That's because that .... simply does not matter.)

The PCBs cost next to nothing - Hobbyists building raspberry pi based devices routinely design PCBs and have the built to spec for a pittence. And they're buying a one-off custom PCB including setup costs, not buying a production run's worth. 

Connectors cost pence. Turret board is cheap. wire is cheap, even high quality stuff - And don't let stories of £xxxxxxxx speaker cables fool you, no professional is interested in anything but good quality copper wire and they buy it in bulk for at most a few dollars a meter if they want to go for total overkill.

All of this stuff is the same reason it's possible to run a profitable boutique amp company that does nothing but build a "Better" (whatever that means) copy of a legendary 50s amp. If you had to actually invest time and money into genuine R&D rather than simply testing or evaluating subjective sonic differences between extremely well understood electronic phenomena, the entire enterprise would be completely out of the reach of your average small business startup. But because that's not possible and componentry is cheap, owners of such businesses are able to focus on build quality and make high profit margins comparitive to the amount of product they actually sell - which makes it possible to break even as a business selling small quantities at high prices.


Now compare that to the Axe FX - That runs on these CPUs: TigerSHARC Processors | Analog Devices

You'd think the MHz rates are low for those CPUs, but actually they're structurally very specific in purpose - they're optimised for incredibly high floating point performance and as such can't be used as general CPUs. Building software to run on them can be intensive, and then you have the costs of doing so while comparing the performance and output characteristics of those softwares to a vaguely defined and ultimately irrelevant real-world equivalent until some sort of parity is reached between the approachability of the customisation, the recognisability of the emulation, and the power to take that customisation beyond the capability of the original amp in order to improve upon it. 

It would be, more than likely, trivial for AxeFX to have a hugely more comprehensive array of customisation available in the software - but they'd lose the ability for the layman to understand it, so they don't. It's complex enough as is, but programmers and technicians would welcome those additional options - its quite likely that AxeFX have an internal dialogue between their sales teams and engineers constantly redefining this relationship with the consumer.

That costs money, and that's why this sort of thing is expensive even though their material and workmanship costs don't match those of an amp maker. 

In fact, to be honest, you should all be very very impressed AxeFX rigs cost what they do, and not a hell of a lot more - there's a LOT of expertise involved in just getting the thing to WORK, let alone getting it to be as impressive and toneful as it ends up being.


----------



## RustInPeace

Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio):

"Let me straighten all this out.

1. The Axe-Fx II is still the most powerful guitar processor ever created. A TigerSHARC is about twice as fast as a SHARC clock-for-clock. Additionally the TigerSHARC's we use run 33% faster than the fastest SHARC. The Axe-FX II has two of these. Therefore it's got about three times the power of a Helix.

2. The upcoming AX-8 has the exact same DSP complement as the Helix. It will therefore be equal in processing power. We also have many years of experience in code optimization. I've been writing DSP code for Analog Devices DSPs for over 20 years. I guarantee our algorithms are at least as efficient if not more so.

3. Our modeling algorithms are the best in the world. They are very detailed and require lots of processing power. We could've easily designed the AX-8 to run four amp models but the decision was made to use the same algorithm as the Axe-Fx II. This algorithm is extremely detailed and only one instance would run with the available processing power.

4. The Helix is a "check the boxes" product. It's all about features. If a myriad of features is what you want then it's the product for you. A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary. Put the money into the important stuff like signal path and processing power.

5. We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. I can almost guarantee that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.

It's about a difference in design philosophy. Do you want something that looks pretty and has a bunch of bells and whistles or do you want something that is purpose-built for the absolute best sound quality. The Helix is an attractive product with a lot of features. Our products aren't as pretty and don't have all those features. But they are the best modelers in the world and that's our design philosophy. Do you want an Olympus or a Leica. I'll take the Leica.

Edit: I want to be clear that I think the Helix is a fine product (as I said earlier). It's a different design philosophy and if that philosophy resonates with you then you should buy that."


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Man, Line 6 definitely got Cliff's attention. lol


----------



## Laimon

RustInPeace said:


> Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio):
> 
> "Let me straighten all this out.
> 
> 1. The Axe-Fx II is still the most powerful guitar processor ever created. A TigerSHARC is about twice as fast as a SHARC clock-for-clock. Additionally the TigerSHARC's we use run 33% faster than the fastest SHARC. The Axe-FX II has two of these. Therefore it's got about three times the power of a Helix.
> 
> 2. The upcoming AX-8 has the exact same DSP complement as the Helix. It will therefore be equal in processing power. We also have many years of experience in code optimization. I've been writing DSP code for Analog Devices DSPs for over 20 years. I guarantee our algorithms are at least as efficient if not more so.
> 
> 3. Our modeling algorithms are the best in the world. They are very detailed and require lots of processing power. We could've easily designed the AX-8 to run four amp models but the decision was made to use the same algorithm as the Axe-Fx II. This algorithm is extremely detailed and only one instance would run with the available processing power.
> 
> 4. The Helix is a "check the boxes" product. It's all about features. If a myriad of features is what you want then it's the product for you. A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary. Put the money into the important stuff like signal path and processing power.
> 
> 5. We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. I can almost guarantee that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.
> 
> It's about a difference in design philosophy. Do you want something that looks pretty and has a bunch of bells and whistles or do you want something that is purpose-built for the absolute best sound quality. The Helix is an attractive product with a lot of features. Our products aren't as pretty and don't have all those features. But they are the best modelers in the world and that's our design philosophy. Do you want an Olympus or a Leica. I'll take the Leica.
> 
> Edit: I want to be clear that I think the Helix is a fine product (as I said earlier). It's a different design philosophy and if that philosophy resonates with you then you should buy that."



TL;DR:

"No no, I mean, I totally respect the Helix, if you like shiny toys with crappy sounds you should totally get one. Great product, love it"


----------



## ihunda

Damn, nobody will hear the difference between a TL07x opamp and the best of them in a live setting! This is worse than cable cork sniffers


----------



## lewis

Meshuggah made the Vetta and Pod XT amps live sound incredible. Proof I guess that you can get by on very basic and these days, old tech, and sound great.


----------



## celticelk

^^^ Yeah, that really didn't come across as "nothin' but love for ya, Line 6!" I think there are a couple of factually-debatable points to his argument as well:

-People prefer to edit on their computers because on-device editors for existing units suck. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to create a good on-device editor for a modeler.

-"pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target": which assumes that there was a cost target, which is debatable. There's a vast space between the HD500X's $499 price tag and the $2000 Kemper and $2500 Axe II (especially when you consider the added cost of a pedalboard for those units) - couldn't Line 6 have said "design the unit, and then we'll figure out where we can price it for a decent ROI"?


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

The fact that he's using speculation to try and pitch his product as better just tells me right away, he's worried.



RustInPeace said:


> Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio): We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. *I can almost guarantee* that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.



Emphasis on the bolded. Almost. He doesn't know for sure. All of what he said about the components used is just a guess based on old hardware. This is a brand new piece, so we really have NO CLUE what's inside.

And another thing - 



RustInPeace said:


> Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio): A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary.



You wanna know WHY people do all their editing from the computer? BECAUSE IT'S DAMN NEAR F_U_CKING IMPOSSIBLE TO GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT DONE EASILY FROM THE UNIT ITSELF. Trust me, if I could edit everything from the display of my HD500, I WOULD! And honestly, most of my editing is done from there - the only time I really need to pull up the editor program is when I want to assign footswitches to individual effects. It's honestly SO MUCH SIMPLER to be able to do everything in box, so the fact that Line 6 had this in mind in the design process is pretty awesome. Does it raise the price a little? Yeah, but convenience is far more important to the customer than some people seem to think. The less effort that needs to be put in by the consumer to use it, the better

And idk about you guys, but if I've got my HD500X at band practice, and for some reason need to edit presets, I'd much rather be able to easily do it from the unit itself, as opposed to going to the singer's computer, downloading HD Edit, getting the licensing all dealt with, getting the drivers installed, AND THEN finally being able to edit my unit. Being able to do deep parameter editing without a computer is a bigger boon than Cliff seems to think


----------



## MASS DEFECT

When Kemper released the Profiler, I didn't see him post this long and shoot it down like this. Line 6 and their merger with Yamaha, means that they can produce all that hardware will all those features at a fraction of the cost compared to Fractal if they produced the same thing. Line 6 has more money and resources now. The war is on, so to speak. 

Now let's just wait and hear it for ourselves. It is a great time to be a guitarist.


----------



## Shask

ihunda said:


> Damn, nobody will hear the difference between a TL07x opamp and the best of them in a live setting! This is worse than cable cork sniffers



What is funny, is I say you can 

I know from modding pedals, like tubescreamers and such, that replacing all the chips and caps will result in a quieter, clearer sound. That is basically what modders like Keeley are doing. You get a lot more separation in the notes in the high end.


----------



## lewis

MASS DEFECT said:


> When Kemper released the Profiler, I didn't see him post this long and shoot it down like this. Line 6 and their merger with Yamaha, means that they can produce all that hardware will all those features at a fraction of the cost compared to Fractal if they produced the same thing. Line 6 has more money and resources now. The war is on, so to speak.
> 
> Now let's just wait and hear it for ourselves. It is a great time to be a guitarist.



I genuinely love this!!!  Im here for the long haul!!!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MASS DEFECT said:


> When Kemper released the Profiler, I didn't see him post this long and shoot it down like this



I also just noticed this. This is the first time I've seen someone like the guys at Fractal try to shoot down the competition. I guess he's nervous that the FX8 or AX8 has some strong competition now?


----------



## prozak




----------



## Steinmetzify

Shask said:


> What is funny, is I say you can
> 
> I know from modding pedals, like tubescreamers and such, that replacing all the chips and caps will result in a quieter, clearer sound. That is basically what modders like Keeley are doing. You get a lot more separation in the notes in the high end.



Not to mention it's a better build and I would think it'd last longer. 

I'm interested in this. Not as a consumer because my days as a Line6 guy are long gone. I've had a lot of em and own a couple of their products now; they sit in a closet for when 'non musicians' wanna come over and 'play guitars'. 

I'm interested in what they can actually do for this price point. If it's everything they say it is I'm gonna be stoked for you guys. Everything they're promising for $1500 is pretty ....in amazing when you think about it. I guess I'm just skeptical given my experience with them. More power to em though; if they can take Yamaha's resources and capital and do something they've never done before then right on. I'll be watching this space.


----------



## WarMachine

MASS DEFECT said:


> When Kemper released the Profiler, I didn't see him post this long and shoot it down like this. Line 6 and their merger with Yamaha, means that they can produce all that hardware will all those features at a fraction of the cost compared to Fractal if they produced the same thing. Line 6 has more money and resources now. The war is on, so to speak.
> 
> Now let's just wait and hear it for ourselves. It is a great time to be a guitarist.



Not throwing stones, but i'd say we didnt hear anything about the kemper because it's more expensive than an axefx, but the helix, pretty damn close to the ballpark.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Interesting to see Cliff appear slightly rustled.

To paraphrase Digital Igloo on TGP, he said that the amp modeling field is small enough that he's surprised nothing about Helix leaked from outside Line6. Makes me wonder if someone at Fractal knows stuff.


----------



## bloc

Ok this last convo has REALLY got me excited about the Helix now. Not because I want it, but because I wanna see this "war" haha.


----------



## mongey

I don't see anything wrong with cliffs post or any shooting down of the helix at all . allot of people have been comparing the helix to the ax8 from the minute the video went up and he is saying they are different , he is even saying the helix has more features than the ax8 and buy that if you want those features 

what is i he supposed to not talk up his soon to be released product ?

everything he said is true.we all know a colour screen and flashy interface will eat a % of whatever resources you have , but if you want that interface then the helix is the product 

and I have seen many posts from cliff on things where I thought he was being a bit of a dick in the past so I'm no fanboy


----------



## Laimon

mongey said:


> I don't see anything wrong with cliffs post or any shooting down of the helix at all . allot of people have been comparing the helix to the ax8 from the minute the video went up and he is saying they are different , he is even saying the helix has more features than the ax8 and buy that if you want those features
> 
> what is i he supposed to not talk up his soon to be released product ?



Weeeeell, see my post above. Sure, he's entitled to making a comparison, but his has a slight aftertaste of trashing the product (and that no one can do, it's not even out yet!). Especially being the head of a competitor company, he didn't show a lot of class in doing so.



mongey said:


> everything he said is true.we all know a colour screen and flashy interface will eat a % of whatever resources you have , but if you want that interface then the helix is the product



No, that's bull..... You can say that the physical screen amounts to a higher price in the final product, but the amount of computing power taken by that screen, showing that interface, is ridiculously low.


----------



## Spinedriver

One key thing that seems to be glossed over in the big Helix vs AX8 comparison is that there have been virtually no details given about the AX8. Aside from the mock up and brief overview that was put out back in Feb, literally nothing else has been said about it until now.

As for Line 6, they've given a price and a tentative release date. For people that are saying to wait & buy the AX8, when is it coming out & for how much ? Will it be this year or sometime in 2016 ? Also, when it finally is released, for those that don't get on the waiting list at the very start? how long of a wait will it be to get one ?


----------



## mongey

Laimon said:


> Weeeeell, see my post above. Sure, he's entitled to making a comparison, but his has a slight aftertaste of trashing the product (and that no one can do, it's not even out yet!). Especially being the head of a competitor company, he didn't show a lot of class in doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> .



his initial posts on the fractal forum were very positive towards the helix and its design and he pointed out very early they do different things .but I'm not gonna sit here typing anymore to defend fractal 

I own an axe fx but I hope line 6 delivers .the more quality choices for musicians the better for everyone .


----------



## Laimon

Also, I keep hearing this refrain

"Yeah, pretty interface, but who cares, the sound is what matters"

well, while I am first in line when it comes to be a tone ballbuster, I don't believe that is true. My first effect unit ever was a Digitech 2120, I remember what a breeze it was to assign an effect to a footswitch, or a parameter to the expression pedal...and that made a lot of difference, it really did. Nowadays I have 10+ items working together, and setting up is a pain...so, ultimately, lots of possibilities, but I rarely take any, because they're really not accessible.
So if the Helix brings simplicity and great sounds too, I'd say they hit the jackpot. (I am however skeptical on the sounds based on Line 6's history, I hope to be contradicted ;-) )


----------



## mongey

Laimon said:


> (I am however skeptical on the sounds based on Line 6's history, I hope to be contradicted ;-) )




we agree there


----------



## Laimon

mongey said:


> his initial posts on the fractal forum were very positive towards the helix and its design and he pointed out very early they do different things .



And in fact I didn't say he *always* trashes Line 6...but he did it in that post, for sure. Just "in between the lines" at best.



mongey said:


> I own an axe fx but I hope line 6 delivers .the more quality choices for musicians the better for everyone .



That's what we're all hoping


----------



## sevenstringj

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Yeah, that really didn't come across as "nothin' but love for ya, Line 6!" I think there are a couple of factually-debatable points to his argument as well:
> 
> -People prefer to edit on their computers because on-device editors for existing units suck. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to create a good on-device editor for a modeler.



He didn't say they suck. Let's not get carried away. He said "according to their research" most edit on a computer. Though that implies the on-board editing on the AxeFX sucks. 

Maybe it's the guitarist bubble, but one of the biggest selling points for production stations like Maschine Studio is an intuitive interface that allows you to make music while minimizing the time you spend on the computer screen.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Other than sound quality of the amps/effects, which remains to be seen...

Will this thing come with an editor? That is kinda a big deal for me, as I am a studio musician. While I would think about getting the floor board version (to save $500), so I could control my DAWs transport functions without taking my hand off the guitar, but I would not like bending over at all to edit the patches. (so an on screen editor would be paramount in that regards)

I would be content with a post launch update that has an on PC screen editor. I guess if it doesn't come with an editor, then I could just get the rack version, and pay extra $$ for the optional floor controller if this product really is all they claim it to be.


----------



## John_Strychnine

Zeno said:


> The fact that he's using speculation to try and pitch his product as better just tells me right away, he's worried.
> 
> 
> 
> Emphasis on the bolded. Almost. He doesn't know for sure. All of what he said about the components used is just a guess based on old hardware. This is a brand new piece, so we really have NO CLUE what's inside.
> 
> And another thing -
> 
> 
> 
> You wanna know WHY people do all their editing from the computer? BECAUSE IT'S DAMN NEAR F_U_CKING IMPOSSIBLE TO GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT DONE EASILY FROM THE UNIT ITSELF. Trust me, if I could edit everything from the display of my HD500, I WOULD! And honestly, most of my editing is done from there - the only time I really need to pull up the editor program is when I want to assign footswitches to individual effects. It's honestly SO MUCH SIMPLER to be able to do everything in box, so the fact that Line 6 had this in mind in the design process is pretty awesome. Does it raise the price a little? Yeah, but convenience is far more important to the customer than some people seem to think. The less effort that needs to be put in by the consumer to use it, the better
> 
> And idk about you guys, but if I've got my HD500X at band practice, and for some reason need to edit presets, I'd much rather be able to easily do it from the unit itself, as opposed to going to the singer's computer, downloading HD Edit, getting the licensing all dealt with, getting the drivers installed, AND THEN finally being able to edit my unit. Being able to do deep parameter editing without a computer is a bigger boon than Cliff seems to think



Funny, I never connected my POD XT Pro to a computer until I downloaded the patches to save them. I want my modeler to function similar to an amp. I want to have knobs that I can turn SEPARATELY to change parameters. and when you're on the road, the last thing I want to do is fart about connecting a computer to my modeler to change a few parameters that would otherwise take too long on the unit itself. 

Yes the large colour display is probably expensive, but up until now POD's displays have been worse than the axe and It was still easier to navigate than any of the Axe FX's I've tried.

*IF* the Helix sounds great, I think Line 6 is onto a winner here, the biggest draw back of modelers till now is that it requires you to take your hands off the guitar to change sounds. Re-amping never sounds exactly the same as when you're playing it, and every guitarist plays differently so it's been a long struggle to achieve a tone where you can actually hear and feel whats going on WHILE playing. It's different with amps as the choice of options isn't there, but when there's so much choice it's hard to gauge what you're truly hearing in my opinion. Personally I think it's pretty innovative and extraordinary. I just hope that Line 6 got the sounds right. 

Also I think there is such as thing as too much choice. When you're in the studio, you go for a great source sound and you go from there, you don't try and fix something if it's not working you try something else available. I wouldn't take the amp and modify it spending hours tweaking on a component level what i didn't like about it to try and fix it. I think the aspect of actually PLAYING guitar has gone, as people spend hours tweaking a sound that they will probably hate the next day (I've done this ALOT)

Saying all this though, I'd still like an Axe fx for convenience of not carrying gear. I'm just hoping that the helix can do the same thing for cheaper.


----------



## albertc

Am I the only one that thought that the Sweetwater tone was pretty good? At least the Plexi. Anyway, these are going to be an absolute steal on the used market in 1 or 2. Hopefully it will be around the price of an Axe Fx standard


----------



## edsped

albertc said:


> Am I the only one that thought that the Sweetwater tone was pretty good? At least the Plexi. Anyway, these are going to be an absolute steal on the used market in 1 or 2. Hopefully it will be around the price of an Axe Fx standard


I thought all the tones from it have been pretty good.


----------



## Axe Cop

I think the only people who don't think the demo tone sounded good are nuthuggers who won't accept anything other than the product they own. If that was posted blind with no video nobody would be able to tell if it was line 6/kemper/fractal or a real amp.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Axe Cop said:


> *I think the only people who don't think the demo tone sounded good are nuthuggers who won't accept anything other than the product they own. *If that was posted blind with no video nobody would be able to tell if it was line 6/kemper/fractal or a real amp.


 
Or....you know....people that thought it didn't sound that great. Either way...I think the people who think the demo sounds good are trying to justify spending $1500 on a Line6.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

albertc said:


> Am I the only one that thought that the Sweetwater tone was pretty good? At least the Plexi. Anyway, these are going to be an absolute steal on the used market in 1 or 2. Hopefully it will be around the price of an Axe Fx standard



I agree. It's probably the best Plexi I've heard from a non-Fractal or Kemper unit. I've yet to hear a POD HD, 11R, or GSP sound that good. I know a lot of modelers that will nail high-gain tones, but not crunch tones. We know Line 6 can do good high-gain tones, especially when the cab sims/impulses are good, so I have faith in the high-gain sounds, especially if the crunch tones sound authentic.


----------



## inaudio

Just to be safe, I have to say that I'm one of those dungeon masters who grew up with Line 6 stuff and have absolutely nothing against them. This is just an interesting observation I made on why I think that I was more willing to take the product seriously before I had even read or heard anything about it. I think that a lot of it has to do with the new cool sounding name (not a continuation of a previous product line) and the way that the name is presented on the product itself:







This was the first picture I saw of the controller and my eye didn't immediately catch "Line 6" anywhere on the chassis. Compare this to the HD floor units where the Line 6 logo is quite visible on the exp/vol pedal. On the Helix it is there, but it's on the upper right hand corner which is a place that my eye didn't immediately jump to. What my eyes did see was a cool looking piece of gear and the word "Helix", and that's what I started thinking of it as. It's not the Line 6 Pod Ultra. It's not the Line 6 Helix. It's more like Helix (by Line 6.) 

Like I said, this is just an interesting observation I made on why I personally was ready to take the product seriously based entirely on first impressions. This really isn't a "we're all puppets but I can see the strings!" type of comment. There's nothing evil about it. I think that it's more of a "job well done" regarding the branding and presentation of this unit. And yes, the Line 6 logo is more visible on the rack unit but that wasn't the product that I saw first. Not sure why I felt the need to share this, ah well.


----------



## RustInPeace

I hope this thing rules!


----------



## The Masala

Another aspect to look at is on distribution / availability worldwide. That is an advantage Line 6 has compared to Axe-Fx. 

In the place where i am at, you just can't get Axe-Fx easily. Of course, if i really want them, i can probably get it one way or another but the price will be ridiculously high inclusive of shipping and import taxes. You can throw out support/warranty out of the picture too if they decide to stop working someday.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Yeah, that really didn't come across as "nothin' but love for ya, Line 6!" I think there are a couple of factually-debatable points to his argument as well:
> 
> -People prefer to edit on their computers because on-device editors for existing units suck. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to create a good on-device editor for a modeler.
> 
> -"pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target": which assumes that there was a cost target, which is debatable. There's a vast space between the HD500X's $499 price tag and the $2000 Kemper and $2500 Axe II (especially when you consider the added cost of a pedalboard for those units) - couldn't Line 6 have said "design the unit, and then we'll figure out where we can price it for a decent ROI"?



The factually debatable points continue elsewhere - in particular, the point about film caps. Capacitor materials are completely ....ing snakeoil - As long as they're actually capacitors, actually work, and actually have the rated capacitance, the way in which that capacitance is caused, has no effect on sound (Not "No appreciable effect", no effect, period). It's been proven and tested time and time again, all over the internet. Here's one example: Atlantic Quality Design, Inc., The Truth about Tone Capacitors

That said, most caps do have a relatively wide tolerance range, something like 10%, which is audibly different - but that's literally because of different values of cap being used, and film caps are no better on these tolerances than poly or electrolytics.


----------



## technomancer

GuitarBizarre said:


> The factually debatable points continue elsewhere - in particular, the point about film caps. Capacitor materials are completely ....ing snakeoil - As long as they're actually capacitors, actually work, and actually have the rated capacitance, the way in which that capacitance is caused, has no effect on sound (Not "No appreciable effect", no effect, period). It's been proven and tested time and time again, all over the internet. Here's one example: Atlantic Quality Design, Inc., The Truth about Tone Capacitors
> 
> That said, most caps do have a relatively wide tolerance range, something like 10%, which is audibly different - but that's literally because of different values of cap being used, and film caps are no better on these tolerances than poly or electrolytics.



Not going to get in to this too much, but pretty much every major amp designer disagrees with you. What capacitors are used for in an amplifier / electronics product is not the same thing they are doing in a guitar. In a guitar they are a passive shunt and so they really don't make a difference. In an amplifier or piece of electronics not so much.

Also worth noting if you don't think there is a difference between cheaper and higher quality, more expensive caps you may want to do some more research.

I have no dog in this fight as I don't own anything Fractal and don't intend to buy anything Line 6, but component selection definitely makes a difference in audio quality


----------



## Shask

technomancer said:


> Not going to get in to this too much, but pretty much every major amp designer disagrees with you. What capacitors are used for in an amplifier / electronics product is not the same thing they are doing in a guitar. In a guitar they are a passive shunt and so they really don't make a difference. In an amplifier or piece of electronics not so much.
> 
> Also worth noting if you don't think there is a difference between cheaper and higher quality, more expensive caps you may want to do some more research.
> 
> I have no dog in this fight as I don't own anything Fractal and don't intend to buy anything Line 6, but component selection definitely makes a difference in audio quality



I definitely agree as someone who has an electronics background and has built and tested many things in the past. Also, Electrolytic Capacitors are the ones you hear about leaking and needing replaced after so many years, so the other types normally have a longer lifespan.

But, I dont want to argue about capacitors in a modeller thread because that is ducking stupid  


To me it is still about the tone and feel. I want to see how the new Line 6 algorithms are. I dont care as much about the flashy display. I think the long term on the Helix will really be interesting, but people are only thinking about now and $1500. When you think about how you will be able to get these used, on black Friday sales, with 20% off Guitar Center coupons, on payent plans, etc..... I mean, you could probably get them for closer to $1000 over time new, and less that than used. This sounds like a whole lot of unit for the money.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

technomancer said:


> Not going to get in to this too much, but pretty much every major amp designer disagrees with you. What capacitors are used for in an amplifier / electronics product is not the same thing they are doing in a guitar. In a guitar they are a passive shunt and so they really don't make a difference. In an amplifier or piece of electronics not so much.
> 
> Also worth noting if you don't think there is a difference between cheaper and higher quality, more expensive caps you may want to do some more research.
> 
> I have no dog in this fight as I don't own anything Fractal and don't intend to buy anything Line 6, but component selection definitely makes a difference in audio quality



Component selection makes a difference in audio quality up to a point, but that point is not these things: V-Cap CuTF, TFTF and OIMP Capacitor Products

But since you seem aware, I'm sure you can save me the bother of trawling google for an article on why capacitors in the signal path might affect audio in this instance when they don't in a tone circuit. Care to link?


----------



## DarrellM5

This reminds me of a drag race.
Line 6 put their car on the line.
Fractal's car is in the garage and nobody knows how 'race ready' it is. But the car owner is out front talking about how his car can beat them.
Me, I'm just waiting for the light to turn green and may the best sound win.


----------



## asher

Neither car's actually on the line yet.

Plus, we basically know how the Ax8 will sound already?


----------



## mikah912

Yeah, it's not a race until Helix has extensive clips/demos, and until AX8 has a price and is shipping. 

Until then, they're both "in the garage".


----------



## Hachetjoel

asher said:


> Neither car's actually on the line yet.
> 
> Plus, we basically know how the Ax8 will sound already?



on the line means ready to release, once it's released it will be "racing" so to speak.


----------



## DarrellM5

Regardless of the little details, the winning car gets my money.


----------



## celticelk

asher said:


> Neither car's actually on the line yet.
> 
> Plus, we basically know how the Ax8 will sound already?



To a point. I mean, Cliff says it's running the same models, but it's running them on a processor somewhat different than the one for which they were originally coded, so that introduces the possibility of some variability.

Taking a more expansive view of "how it will sound": what will the AX8 leave out that's in the Axe II in order to meet its price point? We already know that you'll only get one amp model at a time. Presumably the number of simultaneous effects will be limited relative to the Axe II, possibly severely. Will the various controllers (LFO, ASDR, envelope, sequencer) for parameters be included?

This is a point that I don't remember seeing discussed yet, actually: the design philosophies between the Helix and the AX8 are dramatically different. The Helix is a flagship unit, and so it's going to be chock-full of features compared to the previous L6 units. (FOUR send/return loops! I'm still in shock.) The AX8 is a stripped-down version of Fractal's flagship, and so it will be all about *limiting* the feature set - I can't imagine that there will be any feature on the AX8 that's not on the Axe II, apart from the obvious form factor difference. That, presumably, is why Cliff and others are pushing the tone angle so hard: they know that the Helix will eat the AX8's lunch on features.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

celticelk said:


> To a point. I mean, Cliff says it's running the same models, but it's running them on a processor somewhat different than the one for which they were originally coded, so that introduces the possibility of some variability.



Code is code is code. It would throw exceptions and crash if the 1s and 0s were in different places. Only the DAC stage could affect the sound quality unless they literally changed the software design and it's capabilities with the intent of doing so.


----------



## celticelk

GuitarBizarre said:


> Code is code is code. It would throw exceptions and crash if the 1s and 0s were in different places. Only the DAC stage could affect the sound quality unless they literally changed the software design and it's capabilities with the intent of doing so.



Yes, I'm aware, and I'll freely admit that I don't know a ton about software development, but the two processors run at different speeds, and for a real-time process (especially given some of the claims I've seen players make about the effects of latency), couldn't that theoretically make some difference? (Possibly less in sound than in "feel," but still.)

I should emphasize that I don't really have a dog in this fight - I'm intrigued by the Helix as an effects solution, largely because of its I/O possibilities, but I'm not giving up my Laney anytime soon.


----------



## ihunda

Interesting debate on algorithms and sound quality but frankly I am much more excited by:


> FOUR send/return loops!!! Plug any pedal or even any AMP/Preamp
> Amp control! Yay I can switch any amp channel remotely
> Expression pedals
> Full mic preamp and vocals processing



Neither the Axe or Kemper come close to that versatility, this is what seals the deal for me.


----------



## Albionic

ihunda said:


> Interesting debate on algorithms and sound quality but frankly I am much more excited by:
> 
> 
> Neither the Axe or Kemper come close to that versatility, this is what seals the deal for me.




Being in a covers/club/party/wedding band where we are always looking to reduce the amount of gear we take to gigs this looks great. our singer and singer/guitarist both use tc helicon voicelives and the guitarists/singer uses a granmeister plus 2x12 di'd into the pa. To be able to just take 2 helix's would be awesome.

On the battle between helix and axefx the line 6 is the more likely buy for me so long as the sound is noticeably better than the hd series because its most likely gonna be cheaper and more importantly i will be able to pick it up on interest free credit.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

My new Pod just took a .... on me. 


Just in time.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Another Sweetwater video is up.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^Before anyone asks... No, there's no metal clips in that. 

I think they're trying to aim at TGP with these demos.


----------



## Axe Cop

Really cool explanation of how they modeled everything. Being able to run wet/dry/wet sounds awesome too. More videos coming soon.

It is a very good time for us who are into modeling. If nothing else I hope this really opens the doors so other companies like boss, zoom and digitech will put out similar products.


----------



## Dans

Electric Wizard said:


> Another Sweetwater video is up.




And some others.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay that's pretty ....ing cool that you can use the Variax's knobs as an external controller.


----------



## bloc

Great tones aside, I love this guy that L6 uses to demo their stuff. Sean Halley speaks in a conversational manner that's really easy to relate to.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay that's pretty ....ing cool that you can use the Variax's knobs as an external controller.



TO BE FAIR, the HD series could do that too. There's an old Andertons/Rob Chapman video demonstrating that, with Rob being very entertained by a Whammy effect on the tone knob of the control


----------



## Steinmetzify

Starting to jones for an Ola demo...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

The sounded surprisingly good! The Helix looks slim and small-ish too.


----------



## Laimon

MASS DEFECT said:


> The sounded surprisingly good! The Helix looks slim and small-ish too.



The cleans seem to sound really good. The dirty tones I heard so far, however, leave me quite perplexed. Looking forward to hearing some more defined heavy tones.


----------



## Spinedriver

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^Before anyone asks... No, there's no metal clips in that.
> 
> I think they're trying to aim at TGP with these demos.



Now that a large chunk of metal players have already adopted either an Axe-Fx or Kemper system, I reckon Line 6 has decided to focus on the studio/cover/wedding band player whose idea of "metal" is a Boss DS-1 in front of a Fender Twin.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

celticelk said:


> Yes, I'm aware, and I'll freely admit that I don't know a ton about software development, but the two processors run at different speeds, and for a real-time process (especially given some of the claims I've seen players make about the effects of latency), couldn't that theoretically make some difference? (Possibly less in sound than in "feel," but still.)
> 
> I should emphasize that I don't really have a dog in this fight - I'm intrigued by the Helix as an effects solution, largely because of its I/O possibilities, but I'm not giving up my Laney anytime soon.



You're conflating "real time" with "continuous".

There's a thing in PC audio called DPC latency. To nutshell it, it's how the processor handles urgent data that must be represented continuously, versus how it handles data that might take much more processing power to handle but can be handled in a fashion that isn't so urgent.

Some drivers and chipsets (Logitech USB Webcam drivers for example) can cause the processor to handle DPC badly - this raises the DPC latency. As a general rule, if your DPC latency exceeds about 500 microseconds, there's a pretty good chance your audio will start working improperly.

When this happens, there's literally zero middleground between "Working fine" and "Popping and glitching noises".

If the processors were for whatever reason unable to process the code fast enough to maintain continuous audio output, this would be the result.

The only way this could be mitigated would be if Fractal designed in an Adaptive algorithm to dynamically reduce the processor load by sacrificing resolution on the fly - In other words, if Fractal spent time and development on designing a workaround that would make their product sound worse, in order to mitigate problems arising from underspeccing the processors.



Now honestly, that sort of approach has it's merits sometimes - It's how Wipeout HD on PS3 was able to maintain a constant 60FPS framerate, for example.

But honestly, that sort of approach isn't relevant here - bit-crushed audio or under sampled audio is not a subtle effect and would completely destroy the functionality of the product, so they won't be doing it unless they've decided they'd quite like to release a totally uncompetitive product that doesn't work. 
http://insidethedigitalfoundry.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/wipeout-hds-1080p-sleight-of-hand.html


----------



## lewis

Spinedriver said:


> Now that a large chunk of metal players have already adopted either an Axe-Fx or Kemper system, I reckon Line 6 has decided to focus on the studio/cover/wedding band player whose idea of "metal" is a Boss DS-1 in front of a Fender Twin.



Its starting to seem like that, the continuous lack of Metal amp options in Line 6 range suggests it. Like in the original Pod Farm you had the Diezel Amp etc. Loads more options, fast track to now and half are missing. Metal Amp pack comes out for the HD and its what 2 amps for proper High Gain?.

If this really is the case then I will 100% be on the Kemper trail


----------



## sevenstringj

Helix FAQ - Helix - Line 6 Community

Coulda sworn they listed the amp models. Wonder if they're embarrassed.

All they have to do is offer a VHT Pitbull UL model and they beat Axe FX.


----------



## lewis

sevenstringj said:


> Helix FAQ - Helix - Line 6 Community
> 
> Coulda sworn they listed the amp models. Wonder if they're embarrassed.
> 
> All they have to do is offer a VHT Pitbull UL model and they beat Axe FX.



Thats interesting, wonder why they have taken them down! 

mmmm


----------



## GuitarBizarre

sevenstringj said:


> Helix FAQ - Helix - Line 6 Community
> 
> Coulda sworn they listed the amp models. Wonder if they're embarrassed.
> 
> All they have to do is offer a VHT Pitbull UL model and they beat Axe FX.



A good ENGL, 5150, and Laney? Personally I'd like to be able to approach those Symphony X/Djent/Mattias Eklundh tones respectively, without having to .... around in BIAS for hours.


----------



## androponic

Amp list still in the replies from L6.

WhoWatt 100
Soup Pro
Stone Age 185
Tweed Blues Nrm
Tweed Blues Brt
US Small Tweed
US Deluxe Nrm
US Deluxe Vib
US Double Nrm
US Double Vib
Mail Order Twin
Divided Duo
Interstate Zed
Jazz Rivet 120
Essex A-15
Essex A-30
A-30 Fawn Nrm
A-30 Fawn Brt
Mandarin 80
Brit J-45 Nrm
Brit J-45 Brt
Brit Plexi Nrm
Brit Plexi Brt
Brit Plexi Jump
Brit P-75 Nrm
Brit P-75 Brt
Brit J-800
German Mahadeva
German Ubersonic
Cali Rectifire
ANGL Meteor
Solo Lead Clean
Solo Lead Crunch
Solo Lead OD
PV Panama
Line 6 Elektrik
Line 6 Doom
Line 6 Epic
Tuck n' Go
SV Beast Nrm
SV Beast Brt
Cali Bass
Cali 400 Ch1
Cali 400 Ch2
G Cougar 800

And effects list from another thread on Line 6
*Input Blocks:
*None, Multi (Guitar, Aux, Variax), Guitar, Aux, Variax, Variax Magnetics, Mic, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, S/PDIF, USB 3/4, USB 5/6, USB 7/8

*Output Blocks:*
Multi (1/4", XLR, Digital, USB 1/2), Path 2A, Path 2B, Path 2A+B, 1/4", XLR, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Digital (S/PDIF, AES/EBU, or L6 LINK), USB 1/2, USB 3/4, USB 5/6

*Distortion Models:*
Minotaur, Compulsive Drive, Valve Driver, Top Secret OD, Scream 808, Hedgehog D9, Vermin Dist, Arbitrator Fuzz, Triangle Fuzz, Industrial Fuzz, Tycoctavia Fuzz, Megaphone

*Dynamics Models:*
Deluxe Comp, Red Squeeze, LA Studio Comp, Noise Gate, Hard Gate

*EQ Models:*
Simple EQ, Low Cut/High Cut, Parametric, 10-Band Graphic

*Modulation Models:*
Optical Trem, 60s Bias Trem, Script Mod Phase, Ubiquitous Vibe, Gray Flanger, Harmonic Flanger, Courtesan Flange, Chorus, 70s Chorus, Trinity Chorus, Bubble Vibrato, Vibe Rotary, 122 Rotary, 145 Rotary, AM Ring Mod, Pitch Ring Mod

*Delay Models:*
Simple Delay, Mod Chorus Echo, Multitap 4, Multitap 6, Ping Pong, Sweep Echo, Ducked Delay, Transistor Tape, Harmony Delay, Bucket Brigade, Adriatic Delay, Elephant Man

*Reverb Models:*
Plate, Room, Chamber, Hall, Echo, Tile, Cave, Ducking, Octo, 63 Spring, Spring, Particle Verb

*Pitch/Synth Models:*
Pitch Wham, Twin Harmony, 3 Osc Synth

*Filter Models:*
Mutant Filter
Mystery Filter [Hi, Stilwel&#8212;we miss you, brother!]

*Wah Models:*
UK Wah 846, Teardrop 310, Fassel, Weeper, Chrome, Chrome Custom, Throaty, Vetta Wah, Colorful, Conductor

*Volume/Pan Models:*
Volume Pedal, Gain, Pan

*Send/Return:*
Send 1, Send 2, Send 3, Send 4, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, FX Loop 1, FX Loop 2, FX Loop 3, FX Loop 4, FX Loop 1/2, FX Loop 3/4

*Looper:*
Mono, Stereo

*Split:*
Y, A/B, Crossover

*Merge:*
Mixer


----------



## Shask

MASS DEFECT said:


> The sounded surprisingly good! The Helix looks slim and small-ish too.



I was thinking the Helix looked smaller than the HD500. That would be great, IMO. The HD500 was pretty huge.


----------



## Laimon

androponic said:


> Gray Flanger



My god, I read "Gay Flanger" and thought "No they didn't!"


----------



## mikah912

lewis said:


> Its starting to seem like that, the continuous lack of Metal amp options in Line 6 range suggests it. Like in the original Pod Farm you had the Diezel Amp etc. Loads more options, fast track to now and half are missing. Metal Amp pack comes out for the HD and its what 2 amps for proper High Gain?.
> 
> If this really is the case then I will 100% be on the Kemper trail



I'm as critical of the lack of _*new*_ amp options as anyone, but they already have at least 5 "proper" high gain amps in the lineup:

ENGL Fireball
Bogner Uberschall
Dual Recto
5150
Soldano SLO

Additionally, the JCM800 and Bogner Shiva can get there with a boost in front if modeled accurately.

Finally, each of the 3 Line 6 "original" amps (Elektrik, Epic, Doom) are high gain models. 

There are a good number of high gain options in the lineup already. I simply wanted something contemporary like a Randall Satan/Thrasher, PRS Archon, Orange Dark Terror/Rockerverb mk II or EVH 5150 III. None of those are "obscure" or "boutique", and there's no reason for Line 6's amp lineup to be frozen in time as of 10 years ago.


----------



## Lain

Can't help but think how durable this is with a "touch sensitive footswitches", a joystick, all those lights and displays. All cool ideas.... but given Line6's track record of broken usb ports and questionable support....


----------



## mikah912

Lain said:


> Can't help but think how durable this is with a "touch sensitive footswitches", a joystick, all those lights and displays. All cool ideas.... but given Line6's track record of broken usb ports and questionable support....



Fair criticism, but I've read of increased stress testing for this unit that goes beyond anything they did for the HD500X.

In fact, I'd say that this is a direct response to people who believed their past units were not robust enough in construction.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Hmm that list of amps/fx doesn't seem too bad at all.
Even for the heavier stuff. 

I just hope that they add in a few more high gain amps (even later on with an expansion)

I am a little disappointed at the fact there is no "ambiance" reverb!
But again that could come in a later expansion!

I also hope Line 6 supports this new unit better than their HD series. Half-way through the HD setup they bring out the HD-X setup, and that really put a dent in sharing of presets/patches. And I also hope that they fix their website, cause as of now that thing is ridiculous to try to navigate. (hope they did a better job with the interface on the Helix)


----------



## mikah912

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> I am a little disappointed at the fact there is no "ambiance" reverb!
> But again that could come in a later expansion!



What do you call the "Particle Verb" model that's in Helix?


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

mikah912 said:


> What do you call the "Particle Verb" model that's in Helix?



I have never used "particle verb" actually, so I don't know what it is.

Is that their name for an ambiance style reverb?


----------



## mikah912

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> I have never used "particle verb" actually, so I don't know what it is.
> 
> Is that their name for an ambiance style reverb?



Yeah. When you get sec, check out some YouTube vids of it.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

mikah912 said:


> Yeah. When you get sec, check out some YouTube vids of it.



Oh ok, I didn't realize that is what they called their ambiance reverb. Cool 

This unit is checking off so many boxes its unreal... Now to just hear how this thing does (overall) for metal, djent, and things of the like.

I will have to check out that Particle Verb soon.


----------



## Dead-Pan

Not sure if this has been posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBVT0kDO4n4


----------



## Lain

Tone is good in that video imo. But he is using a variax.... would like to see it with a normal guitar.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Lain said:


> Tone is good in that video imo. But he is using a variax.... would like to see it with a normal guitar.



Agreed.

That, and someone play some heavier stuff with it. I want a wide range to showcase what this unit can do... Not the same exact tones that they showcase for every piece of guitar processing equipment that comes out.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> Agreed.
> 
> That, and someone play some heavier stuff with it. I want a wide range to showcase what this unit can do... Not the same exact tones that they showcase for every piece of guitar processing equipment that comes out.



They're demonstrating those tones because that's what people want to hear done well and they're not so saturated and overgained that other things are still audible.

Metal is great and all, but lets be honest - Once you've heard a few Ola demos, do you not get the impression that he makes every amp sound like every other amp? I certainly couldn't pick some of the tones apart from each other if I had to in an ABX. Maybe Line 6 have decided that it's not worth competing in the field of "Who can do the same thing the best"?


----------



## Dead-Pan

I am a Kemper user and comparing I was not impressed with the tone. A bit harsh like the HD500. Not saying it couldn't be better. Great player though and that really helps the video sound decent.


----------



## mikah912

GuitarBizarre said:


> They're demonstrating those tones because that's what people want to hear done well and they're not so saturated and overgained that other things are still audible.
> 
> Metal is great and all, but lets be honest - Once you've heard a few Ola demos, do you not get the impression that he makes every amp sound like every other amp? I certainly couldn't pick some of the tones apart from each other if I had to in an ABX. Maybe Line 6 have decided that it's not worth competing in the field of "Who can do the same thing the best"?



I think there are enough 7 and 8 string players (and I'm not one of them) these days that having a demo that caters to music predominantly played on those instruments is entirely justified.

Even beyond that, hearing _actually clean_ tones would be good, not just playing classic rock, but also jazz and more complex type chords using augmented, melodic minor and diminished tonality. Hearing those with and without ambient reverbs would also be helpful.

The point is, people play more than pentatonic blues on Plexis. Even an HD500X can sound great playing that stuff. 

Show us more than that.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

GuitarBizarre said:


> They're demonstrating those tones because that's what people want to hear done well and they're not so saturated and overgained that other things are still audible.
> 
> Metal is great and all, but lets be honest - Once you've heard a few Ola demos, do you not get the impression that he makes every amp sound like every other amp? I certainly couldn't pick some of the tones apart from each other if I had to in an ABX. Maybe Line 6 have decided that it's not worth competing in the field of "Who can do the same thing the best"?



No, what I mean is that I want a wide range of showcasing the unit. Including some metal, not completely lacking it like most of these sweetwater, or line 6 showcases. I want to be able to hear what the unit can do in a wide range, not only with the same plexi uber-blues tones that is always showcased. I want to hear a lot of "different" tones...

As for Line 6 "maybe decided its not worth competing in the field of who can do the same thing the best" its funny as that is basically what happened in that posted video, most of these official videos kinda focus on the same exact sounds to showcase. (like the one in the video) 

Im not knocking it, I like that tone in the video, but I want to hear more in these showcases... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.


----------



## Laimon

Dead-Pan said:


> I am a Kemper user and comparing I was not impressed with the tone.



Same here. I would be really, REALLY impressed if this has a better feel than the KPA.


----------



## sevenstringj

[Deep Purple lick] Hi, it's Andy. And today we're looking at the new Line 6 Helix. I'm playing a 57 Telecaster into a 65 Amps Soho. Here's the clean signal...


----------



## Dead-Pan

Laimon said:


> Same here. I would be really, REALLY impressed if this has a better feel than the KPA.



The feel on the Kemper can be perfect or worse depending on the profile. For instance, if the profiler bakes in a tube screamer type od the feel changes for the worse in many cases, not all. It's all in the profile!


----------



## Laimon

Dead-Pan said:


> The feel on the Kemper can be perfect or worse depending on the profile. For instance, if the profiler bakes in a tube screamer type od the feel changes for the worse in many cases, not all. It's all in the profile!



That is of course true, like you can get the best tube amp and still tweak it to sound terrible. But the idea is that the best I've heard from the KPA beats (IMO, as usual) by far the Axe, not to mention Line 6 and whichever other modeler I have tried. It just has (well, can have) that something tridimensional that I never felt with other digital products.


----------



## Mr_Marty

Laimon said:


> That is of course true, like you can get the best tube amp and still tweak it to sound terrible. But the idea is that the best I've heard from the KPA beats (IMO, as usual) by far the Axe, not to mention Line 6 and whichever other modeler I have tried. It just has (well, can have) that something tridimensional that I never felt with other digital products.



Up until recently I had a KPA and an Axe-Fx II side by side. With Fractals latest firmware the tone and feel is better than the KPA (IMO of course). The KPA is good but it sounds bandlimited or something to me like there are no high frequencies at all. I also got ear fatigue very rapidly using the KPA.

Whatever though I doubt the Helix will touch either of them.


----------



## Laimon

Mr_Marty said:


> With Fractals latest firmware the tone and feel is better than the KPA (IMO of course). The KPA is good but it sounds bandlimited or something to me like there are no high frequencies at all. I also got ear fatigue very rapidly using the KPA.



That's strange, I never have this impression. It always feels like it breathes wide open. (and I am nuts for the high frequencies, whenever I set the presence to a level I think it's good, I raise it more and think "oh, but this sounds so open <3 ")



Mr_Marty said:


> Whatever though I doubt the Helix will touch either of them.



Yeah, think so too. I just would love so much if the KPA had that interface


----------



## Dead-Pan

Many of the stock Kemper profiles are lacking in high end as they are made to either sit in a mix or be played loud.

That doesn't say the Kemper is band limited by any means.


----------



## Fretless

Mr_Marty said:


> Up until recently I had a KPA and an Axe-Fx II side by side. With Fractals latest firmware the tone and feel is better than the KPA (IMO of course). The KPA is good but it sounds bandlimited or something to me like there are no high frequencies at all. I also got ear fatigue very rapidly using the KPA.
> 
> Whatever though I doubt the Helix will touch either of them.



Have you tried changing your KPA to 48khz and using the pure cab setting? These tremendously improve the feel and sound of the KPA in my opinion.

Anyone interested in doing these send me a PM. It's not supported by official KPA yet, but the settings are there, and myself and several other users have reported absolutely no trouble at all using these settings.


----------



## Spinedriver

The thing I can't quite wrap my head around is that much like the HD500, out of 38 amps (not including the bass ones), 16 of them are Fender & Marshall. Is there really that much tonal difference between a Bluesbreaker & a Deluxe that they need 2 models each ? Even the Rectifier only has one model. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there should be 20 different "high gain" amps but at least 30% would seem fair. I will say though that the selection of od pedals does look promising compared to what they have in the Pod line.


----------



## Mordacain

Spinedriver said:


> The thing I can't quite wrap my head around is that much like the HD500, out of 38 amps (not including the bass ones), 16 of them are Fender & Marshall. Is there really that much tonal difference between a Bluesbreaker & a Deluxe that they need 2 models each ? Even the Rectifier only has one model.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there should be 20 different "high gain" amps but at least 30% would seem fair. I will say though that the selection of od pedals does look promising compared to what they have in the Pod line.



Short answer: Yes. Granted, I will freely admit this works both ways. Lo-gain guys can tell the difference because their ears are tuned to notice the nuances, but the inverse is also true. Higain guys tell the difference in gain structure and those subtle nuances as well.

Of course, some of us can tell the difference regardless and I agree with your premise that for equal representation, there should be separate channel models for everything that is included.

Side note, there is a HUGE difference between a Bluesbreaker and a Fender Deluxe, totally different tonestack, power section, speakers. Hell, there is a noticeable difference just between the two channels on a Deluxe (particularly when using pedals)


----------



## Spinedriver

Mordacain said:


> Short answer: Yes. Granted, I will freely admit this works both ways. Lo-gain guys can tell the difference because their ears are tuned to notice the nuances, but the inverse is also true. Higain guys tell the difference in gain structure and those subtle nuances as well.
> 
> Of course, some of us can tell the difference regardless and I agree with your premise that for equal representation, there should be separate channel models for everything that is included.
> 
> Side note, there is a HUGE difference between a Bluesbreaker and a Fender Deluxe, totally different tonestack, power section, speakers. Hell, there is a noticeable difference just between the two channels on a Deluxe (particularly when using pedals)



I get you that there are differences between them (particularly the actual amps) but I was thinking more in terms of the digital versions. Once modelled, is there really a need to have that many from the same company when 2 or 3 would seem to be enough and that would free up space for a bit of a wider selection.


----------



## Mr_Marty

Fretless said:


> Have you tried changing your KPA to 48khz and using the pure cab setting? These tremendously improve the feel and sound of the KPA in my opinion.
> 
> Anyone interested in doing these send me a PM. It's not supported by official KPA yet, but the settings are there, and myself and several other users have reported absolutely no trouble at all using these settings.



I sold the KPA. I hate words like organic and 3d but the new Axe-Fx firmware just has that stuff in spades. The KPA just didn't have the same mojo IMO. No point in keeping both so I sold it. Whatever though this thread is about the Helix and I don't want to derail it.


----------



## Fretless

Mr_Marty said:


> I sold the KPA. I hate words like organic and 3d but the new Axe-Fx firmware just has that stuff in spades. The KPA just didn't have the same mojo IMO. No point in keeping both so I sold it. Whatever though this thread is about the Helix and I don't want to derail it.



Eh, this threads been derailed already a number of times. I don't imagine a few more times would hurt it any lol.

On a side note, I still want to try the helix when it comes out.


----------



## Mordacain

Spinedriver said:


> I get you that there are differences between them (particularly the actual amps) but I was thinking more in terms of the digital versions. Once modelled, is there really a need to have that many from the same company when 2 or 3 would seem to be enough and that would free up space for a bit of a wider selection.



Well, on the Fender models at least some of the features are tied to the channels, like vibrato. Granted you could argue you just make a composite channel with all the features.

I don't think they really need to free up space necessarily. The algorithms are tiny, it's just the man hours to model them. Granted some of those different channels on the older amps probably don't require much time because they are essentially the same channel with some extras in the circuit path; at that point I'd say they're freebies there to entice the old-timers that just love that particular channel.

I also just had a thought...perhaps they don't really bother modelling some of the higain amp channels because they have other models that do that feature better, like the clean channel on most higain amps is kinda meh and you have Deluxe and Twin Reverb models, so you would just use those instead. IE: most clean channels try to emulate a Fender, most crunch channels try to emulate a Marshall, etc.


----------



## downburst82

I'm pretty sure I will be getting one at some point. The demos I've heard sound great, certainly good enough for me and the feature list is crazy. The lack of more metal amps doesn't bother as i'm sure with the ability to layer 4 different Amp signal paths I will be able to come up with more than enough brutal stuff to keep me happy (not to mention eq/boosting options, impulses,etc). 

I do hope if there is no polyphonic octave/pitch shifter yet they figure one out and add it in an update. I know I can run something in one of the 4 FX loops but I would love to just have this as a stand alone and not need to use anything alse.

I wish the Canadian $$ was stronger, these will probably be around $1850 here (and over $2000 with tax) but I guess I do pretty much have 3 grand sitting on my pedal board so its not like I wont spend silly money on stuff to step on ...and I am getting REALLY tired of hauling around my pedealtrain pro...with the hardcase (75 pounds or so)


I will probably wait for at least a half a year and buy used to save on tax an take advantage of price depreciation (since I still don't want to sell any of my pedals )


----------



## Alex Kenivel

No big bottom?


----------



## decreebass

Wolfhorsky said:


> It should be: turn on, put knobs at 12 o'clock and then fine tune already great sound.


 
You, my friend, just described life with a Kemper  I've owned mine for several months and have yet to adjust a single EQ knob. Even with my own Mark V profiles - everything set to noon is where the magic is! I suppose this is to be expected, as this is the profile at its most "natural" setting (the one you'd profile in the first place). Anyway...

I've been considering biting the bullet and buying one from Sweetwater just to be an early adopter, but I just can't justify the cost, especially since I have a Kemper and already plan on getting an Axe later this year. I do think this is one of the sexiest mfx/pedals/modelers to come along in a while. It rivals the classic mad scientist mojo of the Kemper!

Can't wait to hear more, though.


----------



## Veldar

When used ones come out I might sell all my pedal except for my Aguilar pre and just take this around for gigs.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Alex Kenivel said:


> No big bottom?



It's all new models rather than adjusted or updated versions of old models for once. Good opportunity to outdo everything they did before, and why taint that by keeping custom models that are 7 years+ old?


----------



## lewis

GuitarBizarre said:


> It's all new models rather than adjusted or updated versions of old models for once. Good opportunity to outdo everything they did before, and why taint that by keeping custom models that are 7 years+ old?



well then why are they doing 
Line 6 Elektrik
Line 6 Doom
Line 6 Epic

and leaving out Big Bottom then?


----------



## celticelk

lewis said:


> well then why are they doing
> Line 6 Elektrik
> Line 6 Doom
> Line 6 Epic
> 
> and leaving out Big Bottom then?



The Line 6 guys explained this over on TGP: these models were *originally* developed for Helix, and were ported over to the HD500.


----------



## Spinedriver

Mordacain said:


> I also just had a thought...perhaps they don't really bother modelling some of the higain amp channels because they have other models that do that feature better, like the clean channel on most higain amps is kinda meh and you have Deluxe and Twin Reverb models, so you would just use those instead. IE: most clean channels try to emulate a Fender, most crunch channels try to emulate a Marshall, etc.



You're 100% right. If you look at the Pod X3, even though there are 72 (or so) amps to choose from, more than a few of them sound quite similar. It's almost as if they used the same model but just added a more extreme eq profile to it and called it something different. Perhaps with the Helix, they decided against adding all of the extras because, like you said, with a bit of eq-ing you can get very similar tones from one of the 'base' amps.


----------



## Electric Wizard

celticelk said:


> The Line 6 guys explained this over on TGP: these models were *originally* developed for Helix, and were ported over to the HD500.


I thought that the Elektrik was a re-release of the original Uber model, which they revamped in one of the first firmware updates.

Does anyone know if Line6 ever confirmed that back then? Or did everyone just jump to that conclusion and keep repeating it?


----------



## lewis

Electric Wizard said:


> I thought that the Elektrik was a re-release of the original Uber model, which they revamped in one of the first firmware updates.
> 
> Does anyone know if Line6 ever confirmed that back then? Or did everyone just jump to that conclusion and keep repeating it?



This!!!. Exactly what i believed to be the case


----------



## Shask

Electric Wizard said:


> I thought that the Elektrik was a re-release of the original Uber model, which they revamped in one of the first firmware updates.
> 
> Does anyone know if Line6 ever confirmed that back then? Or did everyone just jump to that conclusion and keep repeating it?



Yes, the original Uber was messed up. They found mistakes in it. When they fixed it everyone complained and wanted the messed up version available. They put it back in and called it Elektrik.


----------



## imijj

Dead-Pan said:


> Many of the stock Kemper profiles are lacking in high end as they are made to either sit in a mix or be played loud.
> 
> That doesn't say the Kemper is band limited by any means.



So many Kemper/Fractal guys seem worried that Line6 is going to make a great product. Wonder why? There are like 3 blooze rock youtube clips and everyone is convinced it won't touch their babies.


----------



## wakjob

The thing I liked most about the FAS and KPA I owned was the Linux-esq or "open source like" feeling I got from both of them. It felt like the sky was the limit... infinitely expandable and tweakable.

With Line 6 it's different. It feels like your locked into their little world of Line 6 restrictions.

With Yamaha now in control I have a little more faith... hope maybe, that things will be different with this new generation of Line 6 stuff.

I'm pulling for them. But I'm betting against them.


----------



## Steinmetzify

imijj said:


> So many Kemper/Fractal guys seem worried that Line6 is going to make a great product. Wonder why? There are like 3 blooze rock youtube clips and everyone is convinced it won't touch their babies.



Not a typical Fractal guy, but I own an Axe. The reason I'm convinced is because I used to be a Line6 guy and nothing they've ever done has even come close. Maybe this one is different. 

What's your axe to grind in this man? No pun intended. I've seen you post a bit of Fractal/Kemper hate lately. Modeling hater or expensive modeling hater?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

He kinda went a bit too far... but he's kinda right. A few people are jumping to conclusions and are saying this thing sucks because we haven't heard any metal clips yet.


----------



## bloc

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He kinda went a bit too far... but he's kinda right. A few people are jumping to conclusions and are saying this thing sucks because we haven't heard any metal clips yet.



Or because Line 6 is too mainstream


----------



## lewis

At this point why dont they take orders direct and allow you to choose what amps the helix ships with. This would save money for me as i never use 749 of the 750 fender amps that come with it. Then as new amps get made and become available i would then have no problem paying for those if i got the helix originally minus all the amps i have no interest in saved abit of a money.

Custom designing your options seems the way to go for me.


----------



## Albionic

steinmetzify said:


> What's your axe to grind in this man? No pun intended. I've seen you post a bit of Fractal/Kemper hate lately. Modeling hater or expensive modeling hater?



I think the high end modelling community bring this attitude on themselves by derailling a thread about a new line 6 product they have no intention of ever buying and trying to rubbish something not even released yet whilst trying to promote the unit they own.


----------



## Laimon

Albionic said:


> I think the high end modelling community bring this attitude on themselves by derailling a thread about a new line 6 product they have no intention of ever buying and trying to rubbish something not even released yet whilst trying to promote the unit they own.



That happens, but honestly, in Line 6 case skepticism is quite due. I am not trying to trash the Helix, I actually hope it's a super breakthrough. It's just that I've never been impressed with any of Line 6 previous amp modelling. On top of that, I find that "profiling" seems to yield much better results than "modelling" (as always, IMO), and since the Helix takes the latter approach, I have even less faith.
I can't speak for other people, but I am not here to reinforce that *whatever product I use* is the best, so *new product coming out* can't beat it. I'd actually be glad if that would happen. I just don't expect it to, for the aforementioned reasons.


----------



## WarMachine

Laimon said:


> I'd actually be glad if that would happen. I just don't expect it to, for the aforementioned reasons.


God i hope not! GAS sucks!!!


----------



## Laimon

WarMachine said:


> God i hope not! GAS sucks!!!



In truth, we all secretly love GAS


----------



## celticelk

bloc said:


> Or because Line 6 is too mainstream



Meaning that anything mainstream inevitably sucks? That equation goes quite a bit too far, IMO.


----------



## ProphetOfHatred

celticelk said:


> Meaning that anything mainstream inevitably sucks? That equation goes quite a bit too far, IMO.



You gotta admit it's accurate at least 90% of the time. (for guitar gear though I have no idea, boss seems to be the most popular pedal manufacturer and I think most of their pedals sound like ....)


----------



## Shask

lewis said:


> At this point why dont they take orders direct and allow you to choose what amps the helix ships with. This would save money for me as i never use 749 of the 750 fender amps that come with it. Then as new amps get made and become available i would then have no problem paying for those if i got the helix originally minus all the amps i have no interest in saved abit of a money.
> 
> Custom designing your options seems the way to go for me.



Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....


----------



## celticelk

ProphetOfHatred said:


> You gotta admit it's accurate at least 90% of the time. (for guitar gear though I have no idea, boss seems to be the most popular pedal manufacturer and I think most of their pedals sound like ....)



Unless you can produce a non-subjective definition of "sucks," no, I don't.


----------



## Carcaridon

Shask said:


> Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....



Unless they have to license something. That can bump up development costs.


----------



## celticelk

Shask said:


> Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....



Eventide would be surprised to hear this, as the only difference between the various H9 models is which algorithms are included out of the box. (And the fact that the Max gets free lifetime access to new algorithms, but that's still a software difference - the hardware is identical.)


----------



## Laimon

Shask said:


> Saving programming would never save money, saving hardware would. Giving less amp models would never cut down on price, but cutting down on hardware would. Fancy displays, extra outputs, switches, etc... that is the stuff that costs money....



Coding is work, and has a price. Even if the coding has already been done, it needs to be maintained, and even if it didn't it would still have his worth. 
Rather, what would they gain from selling less amp models or less effects? Especially in the case of the amp models everyone would pick a small subset maybe even no model at all, if they plan to use it with an external amp, and Line 6 would be making much less money.


----------



## Shask

celticelk said:


> Eventide would be surprised to hear this, as the only difference between the various H9 models is which algorithms are included out of the box. (And the fact that the Max gets free lifetime access to new algorithms, but that's still a software difference - the hardware is identical.)



The H9 pedals have less hardware than their bigger pedals. Less knobs. Less display. They are selling the cheaper hardware for cheaper, and making pennies on the software.


It is a known fact. Google modelers and less amp models. You will find a thousand previous threads about this. Putting less amp models isn't going to change the price. A few less Kb in the memory is nothing.

The Fractal AX8 wont be cheaper than an Axe-FX II because it has less effects. It is because there are half the processors.


----------



## celticelk

Shask said:


> The H9 pedals have less hardware than their bigger pedals. Less knobs. Less display. They are selling the cheaper hardware for cheaper, and making pennies on the software.



I think you misunderstood me. There are three different H9 models available, at three different price points, with the exact same hardware. The only difference is which algorithms are included with the unit when you purchase it. That seems to go against the argument you're making. As far as I know, all of the H9 models are more expensive than the Factor pedals (excepting possibly the Space), so your argument falls down on that point as well.


----------



## albertc

Albionic said:


> I think the high end modelling community bring this attitude on themselves by derailling a thread about a new line 6 product they have no intention of ever buying and trying to rubbish something not even released yet whilst trying to promote the unit they own.



It's because they are insecure about their purchase.


----------



## mnemonic

How many posts have really been made trying to tear it down and say x modeller is way better? Maybe you're reading into it a bit much? A bit of jealousy perhaps?

I'm an axe fx owner and I'm excited to see what this is like, though given line 6's track record I'm not gonna get my hopes that high. If it ends up being awesome and is different enough from my axe fx I may get one down the line. 

If you're talking about comparisons in features and sounds (at least what we know so far) to existing modellers, then stop complaining, those comparisons are gonna happen because they're similar products in the same/very similar market.


----------



## Shask

celticelk said:


> I think you misunderstood me. There are three different H9 models available, at three different price points, with the exact same hardware. The only difference is which algorithms are included with the unit when you purchase it. That seems to go against the argument you're making. As far as I know, all of the H9 models are more expensive than the Factor pedals (excepting possibly the Space), so your argument falls down on that point as well.


Considering an H9 will run all their algorithms, it is cheaper than having to buy all 4 Factor pedals, so my argument still stands.

Notice that on the H9 the price is not proportional to the algorithms. You cant buy 1 sound for $50. There is a minimum cost for the hardware, after that it is about how much software they want to give you for free to sell the hardware.

There is no way they could take the Helix, take it down to 2 amp models and 2 effects and sell it for $99. That is the miracle that people always want, but it doesn't work like that.


----------



## DarrellM5

Alex Kenivel said:


> No big bottom?



Since I'll be running my HD500X in an effects loop, I'll still have the Big Bottom model in my arsenal.


----------



## celticelk

Shask said:


> Considering an H9 will run all their algorithms, it is cheaper than having to buy all 4 Factor pedals, so my argument still stands.
> 
> Notice that on the H9 the price is not proportional to the algorithms. You cant buy 1 sound for $50. There is a minimum cost for the hardware, after that it is about how much software they want to give you for free to sell the hardware.
> 
> There is no way they could take the Helix, take it down to 2 amp models and 2 effects and sell it for $99. That is the miracle that people always want, but it doesn't work like that.



I don't think anyone's arguing that it should be $99. My point is that the idea that you could sell the hardware with fewer included algorithms for a lower price is not ridiculous on its face, as that's exactly what Eventide has been doing, and as far as I can tell, they've been pretty successful at it.

Your point about the H9 being cheaper than the four Factor pedals blatantly fails to account for the fact that if you buy all four Factors, you can run them all at the same time. Using one H9 gives you one sound at a time.


----------



## lewis

DarrellM5 said:


> Since I'll be running my HD500X in an effects loop, I'll still have the Big Bottom model in my arsenal.


yes!! ahaha. Same regards to my HD Pro


----------



## Lain

I think it's hilarious how parts of the Axe-Fx community react.


----------



## Mordacain

ProphetOfHatred said:


> You gotta admit it's accurate at least 90% of the time. (for guitar gear though I have no idea, boss seems to be the most popular pedal manufacturer and I think most of their pedals sound like ....)



No, I don't think you do have to admit it, it's an opinion based thing and without qualification stands meaningless. Regardless, everything that is now mainstream was once niche. Line 6 is no exception, they are synonymous with modelling because they were the first to successfully implement the technology and make it a viable product.

This is a perception based environment we live and work in. Your perception of Boss pedals is different from someone else's but there is no arguing that many an awesome recording was made with those pedals (and pedals of every other make and model under the sun).

The equipment one uses is mostly a subjective thing. There are some pieces of gear that can be legitimately measured as poor products (based on inherent noise, lower bit rates or poor-quality DACs in digital units or some other qualitatively measured feature) but in general, most gear can produce quality tones that work within a certain genre.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Lain said:


> I think it's hilarious how parts of the Axe-Fx community react.



The thread on the FAS forum is twice this size lol.


----------



## DarrellM5

steinmetzify said:


> The thread on the FAS forum is twice this size lol.



Yep, and the thread over at TGP is 96 pages already!!! Line 6 definitely lit up the boards with the Helix.


----------



## Lain

TGP's digital forum is full of line6 fanboys though. The amplifi threads were pretty long already.


----------



## Spinedriver

For me the argument is going to be primarily economic. Although I won't be getting one at launch, further down the road in a year or two after the dust settles, it'll be much easier to get a hold of a Helix (new or used) than it will be an AX8 (the Axe-Fx is WAYYYY out of my budget). Whether the sound quality of one is slightly better than the other is basically a matter of opinion. Some people won't play anything BUT a Marshall JCM800 while other's wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Same for a Mesa Dual Rec, some think they are the best amp ever and others wouldn't use one if it was given to them. It's all a matter of taste.

The biggest argument here I think is going to be ease of access. Line 6 gear is easily among the most available gear this side of Marshall or Fender. Fractal gear (as far as I know) can only be bought online unless you find a used one somewhere. I guarantee that this will be a major deciding factor for a lot of people. The back & forth about sound quality is kind of moot since a) neither the Helix or AX8 have even been released yet and b) it's all opinion based anyway. The best way for Fractal to compete with Line 6 in all honesty is for them to find a way to step up their production ability and get their units into stores where people can try them out and a/b them against Line 6 gear directly instead of having to rely on demo videos.


----------



## celticelk

Lain said:


> TGP's digital forum is full of line6 fanboys though. The amplifi threads were pretty long already.



Have you been following the Helix thread on TGP? Lots of posters taking L6 to task for past failures or perceived shortcomings of the Helix. It's certainly not just an L6 circle jerk over there.


----------



## Lain

celticelk said:


> Have you been following the Helix thread on TGP? Lots of posters taking L6 to task for past failures or perceived shortcomings of the Helix. It's certainly not just an L6 circle jerk over there.


It usually is, though. I got a .... ton of angry pm's for trash talking the Amplifi.
The people trash talking Line6 there are usually the same few. 
The main helix post is full of people already talking about buying it.


----------



## FRETPICK

Are the Bank Buttons set in stone or can all buttons be assigned?


----------



## Lain

AFAIK the buttons are all freely programmable.


----------



## FRETPICK

Lain said:


> AFAIK the buttons are all freely programmable.



Thank you.


----------



## Kristianx510

Funny story for you guys and all the people bashing on the Helix already. 

So I'm pretty interested in this unit. I liked my POD, hated my Axe FX, and am saving up for a kemper at the moment(just some background). So after reading about the specs on this guy and the features I was pretty much sold. Obviously the last thing I need is to hear how it sounds. Before even seeing the sweet water demo, I was seeing posts on multiple forums and Facebook groups that were along the lines of "this unit sucks. My local shop already has one and it's just another pod HD with some extra features." So I was already a little hesitant. Finally, I called my Line 6 rep while at work and was talking to him about the helix. He gave me tons of awesome info that restored my faith in this thing. Then finally I asked him who has the units already, seeing as my store won't be seeing one until August I wanted to know where I can try it. The rep told me that only ONE unit has been sent out and it was for sweet water to demo it. Besides them, nobody has this thing and nobody has tried it or heard it. So keep that in mind if you see people saying how this thing sounds bad haha.


----------



## HighGain510

Lain said:


> TGP's digital forum is full of line6 fanboys though. The amplifi threads were pretty long already.



It's really not though. If you look at the actual posts in the Helix thread, half of them are saying they won't buy it or "X" item doesn't meet their satisfaction or the sound quality isn't there (which they can tell from the 3-4 YOUTUBE DEMOS that have surfaced so far? Right.... ) and historically, Line 6 gets bashed pretty hard on TGP. 



Lain said:


> It usually is, though. I got a .... ton of angry pm's for trash talking the Amplifi.
> The people trash talking Line6 there are usually the same few.
> The main helix post is full of people already talking about buying it.



My guess is that if you got angry PM's from people it was probably less about what you said but more about how you say it. Folks on that forum tend to go overboard when people are overly abrasive/offensive in their posts, so if you posted like a dick they won't hesitate to call you on it there.  


Also I thought this post from Digital Igloo over on TGP was pretty interesting and applicable to the Helix thread but due to the rules I know if he tried to post it himself he'd get his hand smacked again, so I figured I'd share it since he's talking about how Helix was developed when someone asked about the Helix team and development of the product:



Digital Igloo said:


> Hmmm... What could I say that won't be picked apart, taken out of context, and criticized by everyone and their mom? Probably nothing, but here goes anyway:
> 
> 
> The first conversations about what would become Helix took place in October of 2008. Things didn't really start ramping up until 2011, so yeah&#8212;Helix began active development before Firehawk, AMPLIFi, or even HD500X. The popular notion that "Line 6 gave up on the professional guitarist" didn't escape us; we just had to keep things secret.
> 
> Because it's taken so long to create the HX architecture and model set (some HX amp models took as much as a man-month to create), the design team spent a LOT of time and effort to understand what our customers like and dislike about Line 6 gear... and non-Line 6 gear. We ended up finding most of our inspiration outside of MI&#8212;car dashboards, smartphones, video games, installation art, Disneyland... We tested Helix's interaction extensively, and changed a metric ton over the years because of it. A tester or engineer might say "DI, are you okay with this particular feature?", and the resulting conversation would generate a complete redesign of that feature. Everyone had a voice, and Helix is quite literally the brainchild of dozens of Line 6ers and thousands of Line 6 customers (from backstage conversations, interviews, surveys, emails, IdeaScale, the Line 6 forums, TGP, GearSlutz, SevenString, etc.).
> 
> Three concepts drove the UI/UX team:
> A non-insignificant portion of a box's perceived sound quality is intrinsically tied to its ease and speed of operation; if the engine and models already sound fantastic, imagine being able to dial in the sound in your head almost as fast as you can think it. Your tones end up sounding better.
> Up until recently, the process of making tones hasn't been fun. Normally, tweaking is a means to an end&#8212;"I have to duplicate [artist]'s solo patch," "I need to dial these tones in for the gig on Friday," etc. I've always been sort of jealous of synth geeks, who seem to have just as much fun (or more fun) making sounds as they do playing them. Full disclosure: I'm also a synth geek, but don't have time for it lately.
> As a popular art form, the guitar is dying, and that's in part because guitarists generally dismiss new and interesting sounds. We wanted a platform that might push a traditional musician to experiment more and push an experimental musician to go completely, unabashedly bug-nuts.
> If it seems like I focus too much on the usability of things, that's because it's what my job entails. As for Helix's sound quality, we'll be sharing more clips over the coming weeks. Yes, even metal ones.


----------



## Lain

Well, i read the first 10 pages and there were 2 comments saying "Not gonna fall for Line6 propaganda again" and the rest was like "Is this the best thing that ever happened?" and "OMG PREORDERED!"
I only read the first 10 pages and had enough already. Maybe the bashing starts after that.



> My guess is that if you got angry PM's from people it was probably less about what you said but more about how you say it.


Yeah, maybe. I trolled pretty much there.


----------



## HighGain510

Lain said:


> Well, i read the first 10 pages and there were 2 comments saying "Not gonna fall for Line6 propaganda again" and the rest was like "Is this the best thing that ever happened?" and "OMG PREORDERED!"
> I only read the first 10 pages and had enough already. Maybe the bashing starts after that.
> 
> 
> Yeah, maybe. I trolled pretty much there.



The thread is almost 100 pages long. Yes, you did not read much of the content there.  There are several Fractal fanboys that have continued dropping in to parrot the same issues/grievances they have with the device (compared to features the Axe has, of course) over and over or the guys who have written off the unit completely without even trying it or hearing more than a few snippets of tone through the sparse demos we've seen thus far. 

I'm no Line 6 fan to be honest, I've struggled to get tones I REALLY liked from the POD series over the various generations. With tweaking I had some I didn't mind but nothing that ever made me go "WOW! That sounds GREAT!" by any means.  I think from a user interface perspective alone the Helix looks well thought out and the controller and screen look substantially better than the competition, but I'm still reserving judgement until I get to pick one up and hear it through my CLR. I'm totally open to having this thing change my mind on TONES from Line 6, so it's really up to them as far as quality of modeling now. The UI looks killer, but if the tone sucks? Game over man, game over.


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

Taking its price point into account and its readily availability, how bad does it (the Helix) have to sound for people not to buy it? From my perspective they already won the race. Unless Line 6 threw money into a 7 year project directed by tone-deaf people.

By "won the race" I mean their sales will surpass Fractal and Kemper sales combined in the near future of the release.


----------



## Carcaridon

SnoozyWyrm said:


> Taking its price point into account and its readily availability, how bad does it (the Helix) have to sound for people not to buy it? From my perspective they already won the race. Unless Line 6 threw money into a 7 year project directed by tone-deaf people.
> 
> By "won the race" I mean their sales will surpass Fractal and Kemper sales combined in the near future of the release.



I kinda have to agree with this. Price and availability will play a huge part in sales. Line 6 has a pretty good market share of the lower end effects area. It also doesn't hurt that they're in every big box guitar store. I've been eyeing a Kemper and I couldn't find one in stock anywhere around me, and I live 40 miles from LA.


----------



## mongey

SnoozyWyrm said:


> Taking its price point into account and its readily availability, how bad does it (the Helix) have to sound for people not to buy it? From my perspective they already won the race. Unless Line 6 threw money into a 7 year project directed by tone-deaf people.
> 
> By "won the race" I mean their sales will surpass Fractal and Kemper sales combined in the near future of the release.



Agree. There are also a large chunk of musicans who don't go to gear forums and have never heard of fractal or Kemper. 

It could sound exactly the same as the HD series and they will still out sell the others. Will it be on the same level as the others ? We won't know till it hits the streets.


----------



## Lain

HighGain510 said:


> over and over or the guys who have written off the unit completely without even trying it or hearing more than a few snippets of tone through the sparse demos we've seen thus far.


It works both ways though, doesn't it?
And yeah. When out of 200 posts there are only 2 people talking negative, i can pretty much assume that the forum is full of fanboys.  That's pretty much 1%. Maybe it switched around at page 60 or whatever but you can't blame anyone for not wanting to read 100 pages of brainfarts.



SnoozyWyrm said:


> By "won the race" I mean their sales will surpass Fractal and Kemper sales combined in the near future of the release.


Always. No matter what they release.
They got an unique position in the digital modeling market....


----------



## HighGain510

Lain said:


> It works both ways though, doesn't it?
> And yeah. When out of 200 posts there are only 2 people talking negative, i can pretty much assume that the forum is full of fanboys.  That's pretty much 1%. Maybe it switched around at page 60 or whatever but you can't blame anyone for not wanting to read 100 pages of brainfarts.



No, that's not really how that works. That would be a closed-minded assumption made off of plain laziness on your part. That forum is HUGE (their member base is drastically bigger than SSO), so assuming from 200 posts that you have confirmed a bias in an ENTIRE FORUM is nonsensical. Believe what you want, but I've been a member there for even longer than I have been here, and I have not come to the same conclusion you have. Then again, I also don't get angry PM's from members there nor do I troll forums as you're admitting you do, so I'm guessing there is a bit of a difference already in your own personal bias.


----------



## metal_sam14

I reckon I will sell my kemper for one of these. The form factor of the pedalboard would allow me to have a 3 case live setup (pedal, cab, guitar) which will be awesome for quick stage changeovers and flying. It has a 5150 model so i am set for distorted tones  and the IO allows me to do some cool things that I previously couldn't do with the kemper (like independent signal chains, looper tricks etc). Plus the USB interface would mean I can get rid of more stuff on my desk and use the line 6 as a 1-stop-shop for everything I need to do. I only do demo's at home now anyway so this is perfect, and with external IR compatibility I am confident I can get great sounds out of it. Consider me keen!


----------



## Ps43203

I wish I could hear more of it, before I can make a clear observation. The Amp list is kinda the usual suspects, which, makes me leery. Line 6 has disappointed me before, so it will be, what it will be. I need more demo's, in the room too, please. I don't care what it does, if it sounds lack luster, then why bother.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't know why everyone is freaking out about clips, this is a Line 6 product, every Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and the like will have these in stock to try out in person.

Say what you will about Line 6, but they're pretty great at getting tester displays out to dealers.


----------



## asher

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know why everyone is freaking out about clips, this is a Line 6 product, every Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and the like will have these in stock to try out in person.
> 
> Say what you will about Line 6, but they're pretty great at getting tester displays out to dealers.



But we want to hear them _now_ so we can decide without actual proper testing if they suck or not.


----------



## jbealsmusic

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know why everyone is freaking out about clips, this is a Line 6 product, every Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and the like will have these in stock to try out in person.
> 
> Say what you will about Line 6, but they're pretty great at getting tester displays out to dealers.


Unless you live in Canada.



asher said:


> But we want to hear them _now_ so we can decide without actual proper testing if they suck or not.


Or... We live somewhere where the local retailers most likely won't carry any in stock.


----------



## Ps43203

I sold all my gear already to get one and have been jerking it every night to sweetwater's plexi rendidtion. Still cream every time, the axe-fx sux compared to this thing, I'm amazed,lol. Just being dick y'all, like to keep things humorous, ya know meng?
I live near Buffalo, the guitar Center nearby has NOTHING new, guitar gear, related. Just $3k PRS, and Gibson's, and then used and cheap CRAP, ughh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jbealsmusic said:


> Unless you live in Canada.
> 
> Or... We live somewhere where the local retailers most likely won't carry any in stock.



I find it very hard to believe that none of the nearly 100 authorized Line 6 dealers in Canada will attempt to carry thier newest, most high-end product that they're positioning to be their flagship.


----------



## Spinedriver

jbealsmusic said:


> Unless you live in Canada.
> 
> Or... We live somewhere where the local retailers most likely won't carry any in stock.



I can't speak for the smaller stores but I guarantee than Long & McQuade will have them in. Mind you, they do have smaller satellite stores here & there but the town I like in is about 1/10th the size of Toronto and they had the HD500 very soon after it's launch. When it comes to price, the sales floor is full of Mesa gear that costs well over $2K, so they won't be not getting them in because they're too expensive. The only problem that I can see is that they might only have 1 or 2 in stock, so there's a possibility that when you go, you might have to wait for one to come back in before you can try it out.


----------



## Lain

HighGain510 said:


> No, that's not really how that works. That would be a closed-minded assumption made off of plain laziness on your part. That forum is HUGE (their member base is drastically bigger than SSO), so assuming from 200 posts that you have confirmed a bias in an ENTIRE FORUM is nonsensical. Believe what you want, but I've been a member there for even longer than I have been here, and I have not come to the same conclusion you have. Then again, I also don't get angry PM's from members there nor do I troll forums as you're admitting you do, so I'm guessing there is a bit of a difference already in your own personal bias.


Wow, hang on there. You shouldn't complain about "assumptions" while you keep making them. Nor should you imply close-mindedness. I didn't even say half of the stuff you say about me. C'mon man.
1. I am not assuming it from 200 posts.
2. I am not even assuming it from that single thread.
3. I am saying that after being on that forum for years.
4. I did not talk about an "ENTIRE FORUM".
5. I really doubt that you can guess what my personal bias is. 

You came to a different conclusion than i have, that's fine. But that doesn't mean you are correct. 
And my point that it works both ways still stands.
Bashing a product you know nothing about is just as dumb as praising a product you know nothing about. Or even worse, paying 1500$ for it.


----------



## jbealsmusic

MaxOfMetal said:


> I find it very hard to believe that none of the nearly 100 authorized Line 6 dealers in Canada will attempt to carry thier newest, most high-end product that they're positioning to be their flagship.


Most authorized dealers do not carry the entire product catalog, and many of them do not carry high-end flagship products. Most of them carry a selection of spider amps, some wireless packs, and maybe a few pedals and Pods. Walk into a Canadian store and ask for any of the $1K+ items. Variax, DT-stuff, Stagesource, etc. Hardly anyone carries them, and the only ones who do are the large online retailers.

Like:


Spinedriver said:


> I can't speak for the smaller stores but I guarantee than Long & McQuade will have them in.


They may have them at their main warehouse, but I doubt very many stores will carry them. Same story as above. I went looking for a DT50 last year and there were all of 5 stores across Canada that had them in stock. None within a few hours drive of me. Same with Stagesource, Variax, etc. And the "dream rig" was the flagship of Line 6 at the time.

I assume the same will happen this time around with the Helix.



> When it comes to price, the sales floor is full of Mesa gear that costs well over $2K, so they won't be not getting them in because they're too expensive. The only problem that I can see is that they might only have 1 or 2 in stock, so there's a possibility that when you go, you might have to wait for one to come back in before you can try it out.


Not just Mesa gear, but Fender, Gibson, Marshall, Vox, etc. That's because all of that gear will sell much more quickly. It's all about supply and demand. While digital guitar gear is growing strongly in popularity, traditional amps/cabs/pedals (and traditional brands) are still the main course for the overwhelming majority of musicians. Just browse a few forums. Tons of NGD posts all the time about tube amps, pedals, and cabs.  Dedicated digital modeling forums barely get any activity in comparison, and many of the people who own digital rigs still buy & sell tube amps on the regular.

I HOPE more places carry the Helix because I'd like to try one, but based on all past experiences it'll be a "special order" item.


----------



## celticelk

Lain said:


> And my point that it works both ways still stands.
> Bashing a product you know nothing about is just as dumb as praising a product you know nothing about. Or even worse, paying 1500$ for it.



We know plenty about the Helix: there's a good amount of information about its feature set and interface. That's mostly what the praise is about. We don't know much about its sound or Line 6's support timeline. That's where most of the bashing is coming from. I don't see that the praise and the blame are equally suspect under these conditions.

Additional note: admitting to having trolled on a forum is not a good way to encourage others to take you seriously.


----------



## Lain

Yeah, we know the features. The feature list sounds amazing. But that's it.
Saying "It sounds amazing" after hearing a 2 minute advertising is silly. You never know how many post production has been going on. I heard promos for vsti guitars that sounded great....


----------



## big_aug

I don't get why anyone would be negative about a product like this. There is no reason to be anything but excited. I've always been fascinated with the AxeFx, but I could never afford it. I had an HD500 which I loved. I'm excited that the Helix might get me closer to that AxeFx territory at half the price. It might end up being terrible, but that's no skin off my back. The Helix can do nothing but good for players. Its just one more option for folks to consider. 

Music equipment retailers have ridiculous return policies. You can basically try it out for a month and send it back if you don't like it. Seems like a no brainer to me if you're in the market for something new.


----------



## sevenstringj

What if it sounds like a real amp but doesn't sound like an Axe FX or Kemper?


----------



## Lain

Realer than real!


----------



## KAMI

sevenstringj said:


> What if it sounds like a real amp but doesn't sound like an Axe FX or Kemper?



Exactly my thoughts! 

As long a there is a 5150 or a recto model that sounds like the real deal, and feels good to play through, I'm in.

That said, I've never had an issue with how my PODxt pro sounds, or feels to play through  maybe it's just me, but that thing is great.


----------



## JohnIce

Lain said:


> Saying "It sounds amazing" after hearing a 2 minute advertising is silly. You never know how many post production has been going on. I heard promos for vsti guitars that sounded great....



I never understood that argument. An EQ is an EQ, a compressor is a compressor, all modelers have them and they work just the same as the ones in a DAW. Aside from maybe a more detailed reverb or whatever, there's nothing you can do to improve a straight, dry guitar tone in a DAW that you couldn't do within the modeler. There's no way to "fix" the distortion character or any of the other crucial nuances that cause people to pay thousands of dollars for high-end gear. If you could get that sound in post then no one would be buying gear. This entire section of the forum would be gone  I've run a POD through an analog SSL desk, still sounded like a POD shockingly enough.


----------



## lewis

JohnIce said:


> I never understood that argument. An EQ is an EQ, a compressor is a compressor, all modelers have them and they work just the same as the ones in a DAW. Aside from maybe a more detailed reverb or whatever, there's nothing you can do to improve a straight, dry guitar tone in a DAW that you couldn't do within the modeler. There's no way to "fix" the distortion character or any of the other crucial nuances that cause people to pay thousands of dollars for high-end gear. If you could get that sound in post then no one would be buying gear. This entire section of the forum would be gone  I've run a POD through an analog SSL desk, still sounded like a POD shockingly enough.



what I would say is that I need more EQs setup in my DAW to help with my POD tone, especially with the pickups I have, than i have space on the Pod itself for. Like I use 2 EQs and a Vintage Pre in my chain atm on the POD. The global EQ doesnt work for direct recording so there are still alot of unwanted frequencies I need to get rid of.

This my recent HD tone for example - 
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/enenraofficial/teaser-4[/SC]

had 3 EQs in the patch, then a further 2 or 3 EQs in the DAW. It might not be about them as effects, but purely that they are still needed once you have run out of space in a POD Patch. (Im also using 3rd party IRs)


----------



## Lain

JohnIce said:


> I never understood that argument. An EQ is an EQ, a compressor is a compressor, all modelers have them and they work just the same as the ones in a DAW. Aside from maybe a more detailed reverb or whatever, there's nothing you can do to improve a straight, dry guitar tone in a DAW that you couldn't do within the modeler. There's no way to "fix" the distortion character or any of the other crucial nuances that cause people to pay thousands of dollars for high-end gear. If you could get that sound in post then no one would be buying gear. This entire section of the forum would be gone  I've run a POD through an analog SSL desk, still sounded like a POD shockingly enough.


Seriously? Are you saying that you can't improve the sound of a Pod after running it through a DAW? 
An EQ is not an EQ. Otherwise people wouldn't pay thousands of bucks for some vintage EQs. Same goes for compressors, delays, reverbs, etc. 
It's no secret that the effects in a lot of modelers are lacking. 
Maybe it was a raw sample on their website, maybe not. I don't know and i doubt you know it either.


----------



## JohnIce

Lain said:


> Seriously? Are you saying that you can't improve the sound of a Pod after running it through a DAW?
> An EQ is not an EQ. Otherwise people wouldn't pay thousands of bucks for some vintage EQs. Same goes for compressors, delays, reverbs, etc.
> It's no secret that the effects in a lot of modelers are lacking.
> Maybe it was a raw sample on their website, maybe not. I don't know and i doubt you know it either.



No, you didn't read what I said. I specified the things you can't change about a guitar tone in a DAW, and argued that those specific things are the reason people spend thousands of bucks on an Axe-Fx instead of thousands of bucks on a POD+an API EQ. I've got plenty of experience with high-end mythical unicorn outboard gear and there's very little you can do with them to fix a bad guitar tone. Drums, vocals or bass, that's a different discussion. An SSL bus compressor on a snare is GLORIOUS. But we're talking about guitars here.


----------



## Lain

Ah alright, seems i misunderstood you there. Sorry.


----------



## Emperoff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWkWv6kAFXE


----------



## Spinedriver

jbealsmusic said:


> I HOPE more places carry the Helix because I'd like to try one, but based on all past experiences it'll be a "special order" item.



I hear ya. I don't know about the DT amps but I know the local store here does have Variax guitars and the Stagesource PA speakers, so there's a so-so chance that they'll get at least 1 Helix in at some point.


----------



## Lain

Not sure if you have seen it already:


Again Plexi and again using a Variax, though.


----------



## FRETPICK

Still, Helix is better than that over priced Betamax.


----------



## Laimon

Lain said:


> Not sure if you have seen it already:
> 
> 
> Again Plexi and again using a Variax, though.




Ahem...again Plexi and Variax because this is the same video as before, only some guy split it into different parts and tried to replay each riff and lick with his PODHD


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Lain said:


> Not sure if you have seen it already:
> 
> 
> Again Plexi and again using a Variax, though.




True, again with the plexi, but in that video I can easily hear the difference between the Pod HD, and the Helix. The Helix sounded way more real, and alive... It sounded like it had more depth, and the higher end of the frequency spectrum sounded WAY better. At least for this comparison anyway.


----------



## Lain

Laimon said:


> Ahem...again Plexi and Variax because this is the same video as before, only some guy split it into different parts and tried to replay each riff and lick with his PODHD


I know, i have seen that video too.



Lach Rae Dawn said:


> True, again with the plexi, but in that video I can easily hear the difference between the Pod HD, and the Helix. The Helix sounded way more real, and alive... It sounded like it had more depth, and the higher end of the frequency spectrum sounded WAY better. At least for this comparison anyway.


I agree. More "alive" was exactly my thought too.
I guess, the web will be flooded with videos soon.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Lain said:


> I know, i have seen that video too.
> 
> 
> I agree. More "alive" was exactly my thought too.
> I guess, the web will be flooded with videos soon.



Yeah, unless the heavier, and high gain sounds are lackluster, I am pretty much sold on this unit (rack version) But I will wait a few months after launch for it to get some nice patches/rigs, and any bugs to get worked out.

I just dealt with paying for Batman Arkham Knight before it came out (on pc) and that game is so broken Warner Brothers has suspended sales of the PC version until its fixed. This type of thing is becoming the rule, not the exception... So pre-ordering for me is a thing of the past.


----------



## Sumsar

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> I just dealt with paying for Batman Arkham Knight before it came out (on pc) and that game is so broken Warner Brothers has suspended sales of the PC version until its fixed. This type of thing is becoming the rule, not the exception... So pre-ordering for me is a thing of the past.



Living in the past is great! Everything works (or you know beforehand that it will not), and everything is cheap or often on sale + your computer will usually not have issues running said games.

Just for backup for live gigs, maybe I should buy a pod HD in about ½ or a whole years time, when they will be sold used for 50 due to the helix


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Sumsar said:


> Living in the past is great! Everything works (or you know beforehand that it will not), and everything is cheap or often on sale + your computer will usually not have issues running said games.



Eeehh, to a degree, but "living in the past" typically slows down the developing future. Just saying. {seriously, so many good ideas are slowed to a freaking crawl, because it might threaten people's fantasies they have become too invested in}

Too close to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality... More justifications of useless traditionalism.

But I agree on single player games for what you are talking about, and even most movies. I don't want to derail the thread anymore about gaming. It was just the sentiment that I don't pre-order anymore, as it inherently brings along with it the often utilized potential of unwanted nonsense, especially while we still use archaic socio-economic systems.

Sorry, I ended up going on a bit of a rant there.  Not at you, mainly at the ideas, and thought of pre-ordering a $1,500 dollar unit, and it having severe launch issues lol.


----------



## Shask

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> True, again with the plexi, but in that video I can easily hear the difference between the Pod HD, and the Helix. The Helix sounded way more real, and alive... It sounded like it had more depth, and the higher end of the frequency spectrum sounded WAY better. At least for this comparison anyway.



This video makes the HD500 sound like an AM radio. The Helix sounds much fuller and less band-limited. (not missing as many low-lows and hi-highs).


Ready for some other non-Plexi sounds!


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Shask said:


> This video makes the HD500 sound like an AM radio. The Helix sounds much fuller and less band-limited. (not missing as many low-lows and hi-highs).
> 
> 
> Ready for some other non-Plexi sounds!


Hear, hear!
I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the HD is just an old radio, in comparison I mean. 

This Helix seems like it will sound better than my Eleven Rack, and hopefully feels at least as nice. I mean seriously if the feel/sound quality gets between the 11r, and Axe FX then $1,500 is a pretty nice price considering it is a complete all in one recording/re-amping interface for the recording guitarist, and its other routing capabilities.


----------



## Shask

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> Hear, hear!
> I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like the HD is just an old radio, in comparison I mean.
> 
> This Helix seems like it will sound better than my Eleven Rack, and hopefully feels at least as nice. I mean seriously if the feel/sound quality gets between the 11r, and Axe FX then $1,500 is a pretty nice price considering it is a complete all in one recording/re-amping interface for the recording guitarist, and its other routing capabilities.



I always thought the older PODs (xt, x3, HD) had this weird "overly dynamic" thing going on with feel. It is like they tried to model the dynamics and went too far. It is like an unnatural amount of dynamic range. I always found hey didn't sound as good unless I picked really hard.

Because of this I almost always ran a compressor first in the chain. Very subtle settings. However, this was enough to make it feel more realistic. I think in the HD I used the "Vetta Juice". I would never normally use a compressor at all in my high gain sounds, but it just worked for those units. I always felt like this improved the feel and made them feel more "realistic".


----------



## DarthV

jbealsmusic said:


> Not just Mesa gear, but Fender, Gibson, Marshall, Vox, etc. That's because all of that gear will sell much more quickly. It's all about supply and demand. While digital guitar gear is growing strongly in popularity, traditional amps/cabs/pedals (and traditional brands) are still the main course for the overwhelming majority of musicians. Just browse a few forums. Tons of NGD posts all the time about tube amps, pedals, and cabs. Dedicated digital modeling forums barely get any activity in comparison, and many of the people who own digital rigs still buy & sell tube amps on the regular.
> 
> I HOPE more places carry the Helix because I'd like to try one, but based on all past experiences it'll be a "special order" item.



A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.


----------



## Fretless

I think I am going to get one just for the 4 effects loops, and the future possibilities that opens. What if I get a second kemper? Insta blend! Though I'll get the rack mount version, because like any guy, I love a good rack!


----------



## Spinedriver

DarthV said:


> A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.



I don't know how much Mesa gear moves here either but if they dropped Mesa, they would _have_ to pick up something else because if not, the only amps in the store would be Fender, Marshall, Line 6 & Traynor. They don't carry Peavey any more and Bugera is pretty much by special order only, so they would kind of have to get something to fill in the gap like Randall or Blackstar.


----------



## PBGas

DarthV said:


> A lot of the gear on the floor at music stores is because it's a condition of them being a dealer for that brand. I know my local L&M is thinking about dropping the Mesa gear because it doesn't move quickly, eats up a huge amount of space and eats up inventory costs.



Only certain L&Ms carry Mesa. They seem to move fairly quickly at mine.


----------



## HighGain510

It figures right after this got announced, my name FINALLY got pulled on the Fractal FX8 list!  I picked it up as I still wanted one to replace all of my floorboard pedals (might still keep my overdrive/TS pedals, have to spend more time with the FX8 drives to decide...) but since I'm keeping it I am planning to pick up a Helix as well so I can directly A/B the two to see how much coloration the Helix adds to the tone when used for effects only. The FX8 definitely sounds just as clear and uncolored as the amp does without the unit in front/in the loop so I'm sold there, but I have the 5150 III 50w + FX8 as well as the Kemper, so I'm also curious to hear how the modeling works through FRFR (Atomic CLR) compared to the Kemper! I think the routing looks super simple to set up so for that in particular I'm REALLY excited to pick one of these up to play with!  I've really been getting back into Marshall-inspired medium and high gain amps so I'm hoping those sound pretty good!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HighGain510 said:


> It figures right after this got announced, my name FINALLY got pulled on the Fractal FX8 list!  I picked it up as I still wanted one to replace all of my floorboard pedals (might still keep my overdrive/TS pedals, have to spend more time with the FX8 drives to decide...) but since I'm keeping it I am planning to pick up a Helix as well so I can directly A/B the two to see how much coloration the Helix adds to the tone when used for effects only. The FX8 definitely sounds just as clear and uncolored as the amp does without the unit in front/in the loop so I'm sold there, but I have the 5150 III 50w + FX8 as well as the Kemper, so I'm also curious to hear how the modeling works through FRFR (Atomic CLR) compared to the Kemper! I think the routing looks super simple to set up so for that in particular I'm REALLY excited to pick one of these up to play with!  I've really been getting back into Marshall-inspired medium and high gain amps so I'm hoping those sound pretty good!



Full review soon? I'd love to know more about it especially in 4CM with a 5150 type of amp. I'm still waiting for my name to be called in the waiting list.


----------



## FRETPICK

RustInPeace said:


> Pulled from the Fractal forums (User-FractalAudio):
> 
> "Let me straighten all this out.
> 
> 1. The Axe-Fx II is still the most powerful guitar processor ever created. A TigerSHARC is about twice as fast as a SHARC clock-for-clock. Additionally the TigerSHARC's we use run 33% faster than the fastest SHARC. The Axe-FX II has two of these. Therefore it's got about three times the power of a Helix.
> 
> 2. The upcoming AX-8 has the exact same DSP complement as the Helix. It will therefore be equal in processing power. We also have many years of experience in code optimization. I've been writing DSP code for Analog Devices DSPs for over 20 years. I guarantee our algorithms are at least as efficient if not more so.
> 
> 3. Our modeling algorithms are the best in the world. They are very detailed and require lots of processing power. We could've easily designed the AX-8 to run four amp models but the decision was made to use the same algorithm as the Axe-Fx II. This algorithm is extremely detailed and only one instance would run with the available processing power.
> 
> 4. The Helix is a "check the boxes" product. It's all about features. If a myriad of features is what you want then it's the product for you. A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary. Put the money into the important stuff like signal path and processing power.
> 
> 5. We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. I can almost guarantee that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.
> 
> It's about a difference in design philosophy. Do you want something that looks pretty and has a bunch of bells and whistles or do you want something that is purpose-built for the absolute best sound quality. The Helix is an attractive product with a lot of features. Our products aren't as pretty and don't have all those features. But they are the best modelers in the world and that's our design philosophy. Do you want an Olympus or a Leica. I'll take the Leica.
> 
> Edit: I want to be clear that I think the Helix is a fine product (as I said earlier). It's a different design philosophy and if that philosophy resonates with you then you should buy that."



You can't fault the knowledge, dedication and math.


----------



## Glass Cloud

Sounds like they're mad that some people are going to choose a similar, but much cheaper product over theirs. Idk why they haven't come out with a cheaper unit.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Glass Cloud said:


> Sounds like they're mad that some people are going to choose a similar, but much cheaper product over theirs. Idk why they haven't come out with a cheaper unit.



Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. While a lot of fellow Fractal users might not think Fractal has anything to worry about, obviously Fractal feels the Helix is worthy of this kind of post, and thus they feel it will possibly eat into sales, especially of the cheaper units. 

The talking down of the interface and features, which are probably the second and third most important thing after tone, is pretty telling as well. 

If I was a studio musician or played in a big band that required the same presets night after night, the Fractal interface would be fine. But that's not me. I play at home for the few minutes a day I actually get to play, thanks to a busy schedule, or I go to jam on whatever with friends where we can be playing classic rock covers, riff on some death metal, or ham it up 70's and 80's area style. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the 1% - 10% better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust. 

It cost me ~$2500 for my AxeFx, if having a better interface raises the prices by even $500 I'd happily pay it. Are LCDs really that much? I just bought an 8" tablet with a beautiful display for $140.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

True, the Axe Fx is really hard to adjust on the fly. You would need the Axe Edit most of the time. Wondering how is the UI on the FX8 and AX8. If I can adjust every important parameter during a gig and rehearsal, like how this Helix probably can, then that would be a great thing. 

I'm honestly waiting for the AX8. But the Helix is right on top of my buying list.


----------



## InFlames235

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. While a lot of fellow Fractal users might not think Fractal has anything to worry about, obviously Fractal feels the Helix is worthy of this kind of post, and thus they feel it will possibly eat into sales, especially of the cheaper units.
> 
> The talking down of the interface and features, which are probably the second and third most important thing after tone, is pretty telling as well.
> 
> If I was a studio musician or played in a big band that required the same presets night after night, the Fractal interface would be fine. But that's not me. I play at home for the few minutes a day I actually get to play, thanks to a busy schedule, or I go to jam on whatever with friends where we can be playing classic rock covers, riff on some death metal, or ham it up 70's and 80's area style. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the 1% - 10% better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust.
> 
> It cost me ~$2500 for my AxeFx, if having a better interface raises the prices by even $500 I'd happily pay it. Are LCDs really that much? I just bought an 8" tablet with a beautiful display for $140.



The LCD is probably not what is the biggest cost. I'd bet that the R&D for the new software and interface is what is largely the majority of the cost and is something Fractal would want to avoid if they could. 

Problem for me is that I'm in the same bucket as you and am not a professional musician who wants to spend hours and hours tweaking, presetting, going back to my computer for more tweaking, etc. etc. I just want to be able to setup my tone fairly easily and play with the limited time I have. If the FX-8 or AX-8 are significantly more difficult to dial in on the fly, that's an issue for me at least.

I'd actually rather get an FX-8 than the Helix because it saves me $150 and I only really want the FX and not the amp modeling, but that's why I created my other thread for the FX-8 reviews to see how they like it, ease of use, sound quality, etc.


----------



## prozak

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, that did come off as a little defensive. Having the ability to quickly and intuitively make adjustments is more important to me than the *1% - 10%* better my AxeFX II sounds compared to my HD500, and it looks like the Helix will be even easier to adjust.



That's exactly the issue, as always. When I buy a new graphics card I always ask myself - why didn't I buy a better, a faster one, even if it offers only about 10% more horsepower/frames per second and costs at least ~ 30% more. Not to mention that I'm already 30 years old and that I should've learned something out of it....That's something that will always be bothering and chasing us. It's been annoying us since we were kids, right?


----------



## Laimon

InFlames235 said:


> I just want to be able to setup my tone fairly easily and play with the limited time I have. If the FX-8 or AX-8 are significantly more difficult to dial in on the fly, that's an issue for me at least.



One of the reasons I am 95% sure I am gonna get an Helix is the memory of my first multieffect processor, a Digitech 2120: there it was a breeze tweaking and assigning controls, and I think it's really important to have as little obstacles as possible, when creativity hits.
Alas, interface and feature list are the only things we can judge about it for now. But exactly for this reason I think that 1) it is unfair (not to mention inappropriate) of Cliff to judge the quality of the product and claim that his has better sound quality (how should he know?), and 2) he now tries to diminish the importance of interfaces not to admit that his suck. They really really do.


----------



## Emperoff

I don't know about you guys, but Cliff coming out the way he did clearly smells like fear of losing sales to me. I find it very unprofessional when company heads talk down other companies/products (even if they are right).

I know Axe-Fx fanboys won't agree, but lot's of people agree that the HD500's tone gets a big leap forward when using impulses, getting much closer to the Axe-Fx than what price tags may suggest. The Helix will support IR's, so it will sound at least that good.

So *IF* the unit performs as expected (the BIAS-like interface on the unit looks stellar), sounds good and it's sturdy to whitstand serious touring, these will definetely bite Fractal sales. Let me put it this way: Easier editing, all the features you'll ever need, good sound (even if it can't top the Axe-Fx), and rugged construction... For 1000$ less. Seriously, what's not to love?

For years guitar Multi-Fx world summed into Boss GT/Pod - Axe/Kemper (with a 2000$ price gap in between). Stop bashing and rejoice with new alternatives like the Helix, Amplifire and ISP Theta Pro


----------



## FRETPICK

You can always judge these units by how many hours you can put into them. If you are spending hours adjusting your tones and it's REALLY working for you, then it's money well spent. 

AXE FX II reigns supreme but that is a professional unit aimed at the professional users. Helix is aimed at professionals also but build and tech spec wise is on another different level. Both units are great especially if you take into account Processor Histories over the last 20 years. 

I'm not into editing presets on laptops/computers, not my thing. I like to keep my tracking world and my guitar program work separate. Hands on is great but Helix does Feet On!! How many of us have spent hours sitting up playing, bending down, program, back up again, back down again.  Even so, I can't see myself editing with my feet or maybe I will.

Not sure if you guys noticed but processing sound wise, when you heard Helix's synth guitar sound added with the guitar, I immediately thought there may have been a slight delay or perhaps not as full sounding. Detailed complicated algorithms and raw processing power and Helix maybe struggling with all that is it tasked with. Perhaps it's maybe a preset gate issue.

You'll soon know what Helix can do because if you do loops and the tone is sucked out (sample rate playback) because the unit is trying to do many things at once, reverbs, cab models, amp models, effects, microphone emulations, etc, etc and it all adds up. If the tone remains integral while doing all those things you know you are onto a winning Multi Effects Unit.

There are so many things I like about Helix. I like the metal buttons, the preset screens, main LCD display, the Mic's, expansion capabilities, Amps, Cabs and Dynamics! The sound comparison between HD and Helix = Night and Day.

What happens when you drop a headstock on the LCD screen? Line6 haven't rolled a Tank over it thus far. The Tank Test.  The Line6 Tested To Destruction Series. The Niagara Falls Test. Helix at the Grand Canyon. Helix Vs Gravity. Helix Vs Robb Flynn....Today we will be using a Ten Ton Hammer. Helix will Take My Scars.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

FRETPICK said:


> What happens when you drop a headstock on the LCD screen? Line6 haven't rolled a Tank over it thus far. The Tank Test.  The Line6 Tested To Destruction Series. The Niagara Falls Test. Helix at the Grand Canyon. Helix Vs Gravity. Helix Vs Robb Flynn....Today we will be using a Ten Ton Hammer. Helix will Take My Scars.



I asked in the L6 forums how robust, scratch resistant or durable that LCD display is. The L6 rep told me that it is about the same material as tablet screens. Could probably take real world use, but not abuse. 

Would hesitate to bring that in a stageless gig with people moshing all around.


----------



## Shask

MASS DEFECT said:


> True, the Axe Fx is really hard to adjust on the fly. You would need the Axe Edit most of the time. Wondering how is the UI on the FX8 and AX8. If I can adjust every important parameter during a gig and rehearsal, like how this Helix probably can, then that would be a great thing.
> 
> I'm honestly waiting for the AX8. But the Helix is right on top of my buying list.



I always find this funny. I think the Axe-FX II is incredibly easy to use. I edit the front panel all the time. Many times that is easier than dragging my laptop to the room where my gear is.

I dont know why everyone says is so hard to use 

I did much more clicking and menu scrolling on the HD500.


----------



## InFlames235

Shask said:


> I always find this funny. I think the Axe-FX II is incredibly easy to use. I edit the front panel all the time. Many times that is easier than dragging my laptop to the room where my gear is.
> 
> I dont know why everyone says is so hard to use
> 
> I did much more clicking and menu scrolling on the HD500.



I mean, I'm sure if you scroll the manual for hours then it becomes easy. I think it's the fact that you have to read through a manual in the first place to figure it out is what people want to avoid. I'm not a manual person, but I will read through one for the convenience for a multi-FX unit as long as it doesn't take 10+ hours to figure it all out.


----------



## Fretless

InFlames235 said:


> I mean, I'm sure if you scroll the manual for hours then it becomes easy. I think it's the fact that you have to read through a manual in the first place to figure it out is what people want to avoid. I'm not a manual person, but I will read through one for the convenience for a multi-FX unit as long as it doesn't take 10+ hours to figure it all out.



Last night my friend brought his XL over because he was having trouble dialing in tones, and he also wanted to tone match some profiles off my Kemper. It was really easy, and I was able to do a lot of deep editing from the panel while he played to optimize the patches we made. That was my first time doing any deep editing, so it's not that bad.

On a side note, he and I both want a helix rack just because it's pretty, and we both like line 6 effects


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Shask said:


> I always find this funny. I think the Axe-FX II is incredibly easy to use. I edit the front panel all the time. Many times that is easier than dragging my laptop to the room where my gear is.
> 
> I dont know why everyone says is so hard to use
> 
> I did much more clicking and menu scrolling on the HD500.



I'd never say it's hard, it's just _inconvenient_ compared to other interfaces, and I'm not just talking about the screen.


----------



## FRETPICK

MASS DEFECT said:


> I asked in the L6 forums how robust, scratch resistant or durable that LCD display is. The L6 rep told me that it is about the same material as tablet screens. Could probably take real world use, but not abuse.
> 
> Would hesitate to bring that in a stageless gig with people moshing all around.



I'd probably add ZAGG Invisible Shield.


----------



## Shask

InFlames235 said:


> I mean, I'm sure if you scroll the manual for hours then it becomes easy. I think it's the fact that you have to read through a manual in the first place to figure it out is what people want to avoid. I'm not a manual person, but I will read through one for the convenience for a multi-FX unit as long as it doesn't take 10+ hours to figure it all out.



Easy. Just ignore it if don't what it is.

You really only need GBMTV to get a good tone. The rest are just for customization.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Shask said:


> I always find this funny. I think the Axe-FX II is incredibly easy to use. I edit the front panel all the time. Many times that is easier than dragging my laptop to the room where my gear is.
> 
> I dont know why everyone says is so hard to use
> 
> I did much more clicking and menu scrolling on the HD500.



Sure, tweaking the axe gets easier in time. and I do agree that tweaking an HD500 to have great tones is way harder. 

It's just not a WYSISYG interface and it could have been more fluid. It could just be me anyway. And compared to what Line 6 is saying about the Helix interface, it seems like the better system for user ease.


----------



## mongey

Shask said:


> I always find this funny. I think the Axe-FX II is incredibly easy to use. I edit the front panel all the time. Many times that is easier than dragging my laptop to the room where my gear is.
> 
> I dont know why everyone says is so hard to use
> 
> I did much more clicking and menu scrolling on the HD500.



agree. I spent the first few months avoiding it then one day had a go setting up a preset with the screen and I think its really well done workflow wise 



the helix is going to sell no doubt. even if it at only sounds as good as a HD500 it will sell on the features , and it should sound better

Hell , worldwide it will probably out sell the total sold of the axe fx and kemper combined in the first month if they get their supply right


----------



## jjcor

I'm really tempted to get one of these and run it with my archon (that's still in transit) 4cm. And letting go of my powered kemper if this lives up to the hype. I just hope it doesn't tone suck like the hd500 did. 

Question though, can it control channels switching on amps? Or would I still need to use a rjm midi?


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

I do believe it mentioned that it had relay outputs, yes


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zeno said:


> I do believe it mentioned that it had relay outputs, yes



It has one, yeah.

Also, it looks like it also has an expression output jack, so you can use the Helix's expression pedal to control an external unit. It's little things like that I find pretty neat, but it makes sense, given the amp has four friggen loops in it.


----------



## DarrellM5

> Question though, can it control channels switching on amps? Or would I still need to use a rjm midi?



Yes, it can.


----------



## Fretless

I completely forgot about midi switching. Now I am definitely getting one!


----------



## Axe Cop

Another factor people are forgetting about when it comes to price and hardware is line 6 is a much much larger company than fractal and they have been around a loy longer. This allows them to get components at a much larger discount.


----------



## DarrellM5

Here's a new video. It's actually showing off their wireless system but it was recorded using the Helix straight into Pro Tools over USB. Sounds awesome to me.

https://youtu.be/h5p1Sm2quRg

I'm not sure how to embed it so you'll have to click on the link unless someone else wants to post.


----------



## celticelk




----------



## albertc

dem dynamics


----------



## elkinz

sounds really nice. I just want to hear the high gain sounds now because that's what always disappoints me! 

im pretty confident clean tone is gonna be pretty sweet through this thing from the little amount of vids iv seen on it! the sounds on the guitars hes getting in that video are nice!


----------



## big_aug

Well, Sweetwater has a 36 month financing deal and they gave me 10% off, so I preordered. I cant believe Ive reached the point of preordering a $1349 piece of equipment lol


----------



## DarrellM5

big_aug said:


> Well, Sweetwater has a 36 month financing deal and they gave me 10% off, so I preordered. I cant believe Ive reached the point of preordering a $1349 piece of equipment lol




I went ahead and pre-ordered it from them today as well. I'm really excited!


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Jeez, with the look of that strat with what looks like an active bridge pup, I was really hoping to hear something in the realm of high gain as well. Still sounded good tho


----------



## Reen

This is probably a stupid ass question, but can I plug this straight into a guitar cabinet without anything else and play?


----------



## bloc

Reen said:


> This is probably a stupid ass question, but can I plug this straight into a guitar cabinet without anything else and play?



Haha I wish man. You'll need a power amp as well to make that work.


----------



## Reen

bloc said:


> Haha I wish man. You'll need a power amp as well to make that work.



Damn, what's a good one? And is it even worth setting it all up or should I just look away lol


----------



## DarrellM5

Reen said:


> This is probably a stupid ass question, but can I plug this straight into a guitar cabinet without anything else and play?



What are you currently running into the guitar cabinet?

You'll need either a power amp, an amp, a PA or a set of FRFR (full range flat response) speakers.


----------



## bloc

Reen said:


> Damn, what's a good one? And is it even worth setting it all up or should I just look away lol



I'm no expert, but it'll def cost you quite a bit. I run an axe fx into a cab which has a built in power amp and that thing cost me 1000. It's a really high quality one though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Reen said:


> Damn, what's a good one? And is it even worth setting it all up or should I just look away lol



DCM200L Ultra Light 200W Power Amp &ndash; Carvin Audio
DCM1000L Ultra Light Linear 1000W Power Amp &ndash; Carvin Audio
ISP Technologies Stealth 180-Watt Pedalboard Power Amp w/Rack Ears | Sweetwater.com
Rocktron Velocity 300 150W Rack Power Amp | Musician&#39;s Friend


----------



## edsped

Reen said:


> Damn, what's a good one? And is it even worth setting it all up or should I just look away lol


My guitarist uses an ISP Stealth with a POD HD500. He uses it for band practice and shows and it's plenty loud. I saw him use it for a house show with his other band once, the other guitarist/vocalist broke a string and didn't have a backup so he just stopped playing and did only vocals for the rest of the set and left all guitar duties to my friend. He was running it through a Triple XXX 4x12 and it filled the place really well even on its own. Sounded pretty good too.


----------



## Laimon

Reen said:


> Damn, what's a good one? And is it even worth setting it all up or should I just look away lol



This seems good and not that expensive (well, provided you already have your cab):

Power Station® Integrated Reactance Amplifier® Price $599 (Deposit $50 + cost of shipping) - Fryette Amplification


----------



## Reen

DarrellM5 said:


> What are you currently running into the guitar cabinet?
> 
> You'll need either a power amp, an amp, a PA or a set of FRFR (full range flat response) speakers.



Running a Dark Terror into a 1x12 Orange


----------



## iron blast

Just plug the helix into your dark terror


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

But plug it into the effects return, not the front of the amp - you just want to use the power amp of the Dark Terror, not the preamp as well


----------



## Elric

Emperoff said:


> I don't know about you guys, but Cliff coming out the way he did clearly smells like fear of losing sales to me.


Context is everything. That post was made in response to a hundreds of posts deep thread full of speculation and misinformation being spouted by people many of whom have absolutely no working knowledge of DSP processing, engineering, product design or manufacturing. 

The tone of Cliff's response reflects that. It was actually quite a bit more even handed than I would have been given some of the ridiculously off base stuff people were saying (I DO have engineering and product design/manufacturing knowledge and it was a truly exasperating thread to someone not clueless as is some of the stuff on this thread).

Everything there was factual and for the most part there was no significant hyperbole or major derision of the competition. It even ended with a recommendation that people who prefer the other product buy it. 

I do not blame a manufacturer for advocating their product on their own support forum especially when they are correcting a bunch of technically incorrect statements and conjecture. I don't think Fractal/Cliff is "scared"... I think they genuinely believe they have superior products and are positioned to continue serving those who are willing to pay for the top of the line (the XL+ is still the most expensive modeling unit made).

For the record I think the Helix LOOKS to be a killer product. Just because it is not a Fractal or Kemper does not mean it will not be well worth the asking price. It looks really well designed to me and tries to address many short comings of previous L6 products. I bet it will deliver.

If I were looking for the absolute best tone at any cost modeler I'd probably still save my pennies with an eye towards an AFX or Kemper but would evaluate the Helix before making a final decision, that is for sure.


----------



## nerdywhale

2399 AUD. That's Kemper territory down here (2799).


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

New Vid from Namm. At the end the Line 6 pres said the floorboard version ships next month. Woo! Just from looking at the unit, I might sell my Axe Ultra for the rack version. It's very alluring, but I seriously need more demonstrations of tones other than a Plexi or a Twin Reverb.


----------



## Veldar

nerdywhale said:


> 2399 AUD. That's Kemper territory down here (2799).



Australian prices are always ....ed, I think I'll just wait for Zoom's next multi.


----------



## big_aug

Captain Butterscotch said:


> New Vid from Namm. At the end the Line 6 pres said the floorboard version ships next month. Woo! Just from looking at the unit, I might sell my Axe Ultra for the rack version. It's very alluring, but I seriously need more demonstrations of tones other than a Plexi or a Twin Reverb.




Alluring is the right word. It reminds me of an Apple product.


----------



## Laimon

Yes, impressive interface. It's not just alluring, it is actually a superwinning point. Being able to get where you want and fast, to get back to the music asap, is not trifling as "someone from competitor companies" would like to depict, it is damn important.
On the other hand, still nothing decent soundwise. The few clips out are either mushy or quite dull and lifeless, to my ears of course. Sure, sure, it might be just that whoever has demoed this thing thus far likes different types of tones than me (Plexi, anyone?)...I don't know if I buy this cheap excuse. So far the sounds leave me very puzzled.


----------



## bioniczero

Welp, at $2400 bucks down here, I think I'll stick with my GSP1101.


----------



## Spinedriver

bioniczero said:


> Welp, at $2400 bucks down here, I think I'll stick with my GSP1101.



Same here..  

While it would be nice, I would probably have to sell most of my music gear to pay for it. On top of that, most of the features I'd probably never use. I think I'll probably wait a year or two and check one out once the used ones start popping up (or the price comes down).


----------



## prozak

1500 &#8364; here in Europe....tnx but I'll stick with my HD500 for quite some time.


----------



## Luppin

Another video from NAMM, has a small sample of a high gain tone


----------



## Axayacatl

Long time Line 6 user here. I have really enjoyed a number of Line 6 products. I grew up playing Line 6 stuff and I have owned a Flextone II, all pre HD500 POD iterations, an FBV shortboard, a GX, an Alchemist, plus some others. And I happen to think that the DT line of amps sounds pretty phenomenal.

Line 6's marketing strategy for the Helix seems to be to talk a lot about how easy it is to tweak and to emphasize just how much time and hard work went into developing their product. 

Fractal sells the Axe Fx 2 on the strength of the tone it produces. And Cliff's research, work ethic, and dedication is largely left to the fanboys to glorify and speculate about.

Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly _*30 seconds*_ to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss. 

The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.

Seriously, Line 6, spare me/us the comical montage of somebody getting tangled under a blanket and then nearly losing their sanity as a result. Drowning under a blanket has never been an issue for anybody anywhere though your concern is of course appreciated. What we really want is to hear about is just how soft and snuggly the blanket actually is. 

Until we hear more tone demos it really seems like Line 6 is selling us this product:


----------



## Spinedriver

Luppin said:


> Another video from NAMM, has a small sample of a high gain tone




Ya ninja'd me...  I just came across this and thought, "wow, it sounds like balls but it's the 1st ever sample with some gain". Even though it was the SLO-100 recorded poorly, it does show a bit of light at the end of the tunnel for those wondering because it didn't sound all that bad under the circumstances. With any luck there might be some more demos popping up soon.


----------



## edsped

Axayacatl said:


> Long time Line 6 user here. I have really enjoyed a number of Line 6 products. I grew up playing Line 6 stuff and I have owned a Flextone II, all pre HD500 POD iterations, an FBV shortboard, a GX, an Alchemist, plus some others. And I happen to think that the DT line of amps sounds pretty phenomenal.
> 
> Line 6's marketing strategy for the Helix seems to be to talk a lot about how easy it is to tweak and to emphasize just how much time and hard work went into developing their product.
> 
> Fractal sells the Axe Fx 2 on the strength of the tone it produces. And Cliff's research, work ethic, and dedication is largely left to the fanboys to glorify and speculate about.
> 
> Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly _*30 seconds*_ to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss.
> 
> The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.
> 
> Seriously, Line 6, spare me/us the comical montage of somebody getting tangled under a blanket and then nearly losing their sanity as a result. Drowning under a blanket has never been an issue for anybody anywhere though your concern is of course appreciated. What we really want is to hear about is just how soft and snuggly the blanket actually is.
> 
> Until we hear more tone demos it really seems like Line 6 is selling us this product:



The grid layout is annoying to navigate if you run most of your stuff in series, which is what I imagine most people do. More than five things and everything won't even fit on the screen. 

Normal navigation is annoying too since you just have four directional buttons and a single jog wheel. The quick control knobs are good in theory but the execution is bad. They're too cramped, you have to grip them with two fingers to turn them instead of being able to just roll them with a single finger, and the dynamic assignment is clumsy since you still have to scroll around the parameters with the directional buttons until the quick control knobs are assigned where you want them. It was quicker and easier for me to just use the main jog wheel than the "quick" control knobs. 

And of course with there only being a single knob for adjusting values that means you're gonna be doing a WHOLE LOT of menu scrolling to tweak stuff. 

I guess it doesn't bother some people and it really depends on how much stuff you actually tweak, but the Helix and Kemper methods of having dedicated buttons for accessing individual effects and multiple soft knobs for controlling parameters is a million times better than scrolling around a cursor forever.


----------



## Axayacatl

edsped said:


> The grid layout is annoying to navigate if you run most of your stuff in series, which is what I imagine most people do. More than five things and everything won't even fit on the screen.
> 
> Normal navigation is annoying too since you just have four directional buttons and a single jog wheel. The quick control knobs are good in theory but the execution is bad. They're too cramped, you have to grip them with two fingers to turn them instead of being able to just roll them with a single finger, and the dynamic assignment is clumsy since you still have to scroll around the parameters with the directional buttons until the quick control knobs are assigned where you want them. It was quicker and easier for me to just use the main jog wheel than the "quick" control knobs.
> 
> And of course with there only being a single knob for adjusting values that means you're gonna be doing a WHOLE LOT of menu scrolling to tweak stuff.
> 
> I guess it doesn't bother some people and it really depends on how much stuff you actually tweak, but the Helix and Kemper methods of having dedicated buttons for accessing individual effects and multiple soft knobs for controlling parameters is a million times better than scrolling around a cursor forever.



Your point is well taken since my own perspective is admittedly badly skewed from being perfectly content to use my Axe Fx 2 in a guitar --> amp --> cab context. Perhaps with some reverb and delay splashed in. That said the FAS navigation approach fits me very well even when editing more complicated patches. I find it is well thought out and consistent while the Kemper interface felt like it was designed by a really smart person on an acid trip. Each to his own, that's just my opinion. The Kemper is awesome, too. 

Different users will have different priorities and I'm not a pro user by any stretch of the imagination. For my purposes, whether or not a product is easier to tweak in the context of a very complicated preset matters a lot less than achieving a great sound in a simple preset. If the latter is not true then the former becomes kind of irrelevant. BTW, I'm pretty sure my preset amateurishness is representative of most consumers. 

The reason I moved away from Line 6 was precisely because I was tired of tweaking away endlessly. The recorded end product can certainly be stellar (as can most other digital products in the right hands) but the feel was simply not there. I was always waiting for and buying the latest expansion, the amp that would do it for me. With the Axe the new amps are always appreciated but the truth of the matter is that 2-3 amp models do it for me and many other users as well and that speaks to the quality of the product. 

I'm eager for the Helix to be an amazing one-stop solution and I can't wait to experience for myself what the amp models actually feel and sound like. The most important thing for me will be the amp --> cab sound and feel and all that talk in the the Tone King video about creating patches 'at the speed of thought' comes across as really gimmicky and of second order importance.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Axayacatl said:


> Last night I started off with a blank grid on my Axe Fx 2. It took me exactly _*30 seconds*_ to select a Jumped 1959 Marshall Super and a random 4x12 IR and to dime both gains as well as the bass, mid, and treble. And then I lost the next 2 hours to tonal bliss.
> 
> The ''Axe Fx 2 = endless tweaking, I just wanna play" mantra rings a little fake, but then again my ears are probably crap.





Axayacatl said:


> Your point is well taken since my own perspective is admittedly badly skewed from being perfectly content to use my Axe Fx 2 in a guitar --> amp --> cab context.



That's the thing - you're content with something simple. Which, on it's own, can be done easily on any of the modern digital modellers

But issue is when you get into editing the deep parameters. That's not so simple, until now. With my HD500X, if I want to edit my delay at the end of my chain, I gotta get the cursor over there, double click the enter button, and then I can only adjust each parameter one at a time, so there's a lot of scrolling back and forth, to say, balance the feedback and mix controls so the delay is just loud enough, and hangs around for just long enough.

The Helix makes that so much easier - tap the footswitch your delay is assigned to with your finger, and it automatically pulls up the delay block and gives you all the options right there with the knobs under the screen.

I'd only assume it's similar with the Axe FX, gotta scroll all over hell's half acre until you get to the parameter you want to adjust.

So while it may seem like a tiny thing, the way they're handling the UI with the Helix is a HUGE thing that'll save a lot of people a lot time. There's a lot to be said about making the end user experience quicker and simpler.


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

All nice and dandy but I think most of us are getting a bit bored. The hype will last only so much without some substantial demoing of the product. If the pedalboard version is supposed to ship in a month, put it in a room with a versatile guitarist and present to your potential customers 5-10 factory presets.

30 seconds of Plexi, Twin and those latest 30 seconds of bad quality recording of SLO is not enough. It doesn't let the man-month-per-amp-model show. And it's not convincing the sceptics to get your product.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Yeah I dunno, unless a solid studio/direct sound clip convinces me otherwise, I'll save my saliva. I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech, because I can do that with my pod no problem


----------



## Spinedriver

I'd be willing to bet that when it gets close to the "official" release, there will be a boatload of demos popping up on Youtube. I can only assume that there haven't been all that many because either a) no one really has one to demo (aside from Sweetwater) or b) Line 6 has asked them not to put them up until a certain date.


----------



## Axayacatl

Zeno said:


> .... With my HD500X, if I want to edit my delay at the end of my chain, I gotta get the cursor over there, double click the enter button, and then I can only adjust each parameter one at a time, so there's a lot of scrolling back and forth, to say, balance the feedback and mix controls so the delay is just loud enough, and hangs around for just long enough.
> 
> The Helix makes that so much easier - tap the footswitch your delay is assigned to with your finger, and it automatically pulls up the delay block and gives you all the options right there with the knobs under the screen.
> 
> I'd only assume it's similar with the Axe FX, gotta scroll all over hell's half acre until you get to the parameter you want to adjust.



Thing is I've developed this Shawn Lane-esque ability to tap that 'Edit' button on the Axe at warp speed and magically land on the intended block. It looks like a nervous tick.  Kidding aside, you're perfectly right, I'm glossing over a really nice feature brought to the table by the Helix. 

Though I'll bet you a a man-months worth of sandwiches that Cliff can program something similar for the Axe. A _free firmware upgrade_ where you put the MFC in a special editing mode and hit the relevant foot switch to jump to the correct editing block. Not as polished as the Helix (and a much more expensive initial investment) but I'm sure it can be done. 



SnoozyWyrm said:


> 30 seconds of Plexi, Twin and those latest 30 seconds of bad quality recording of SLO is not enough. It doesn't let the man-month-per-amp-model show. And it's not convincing the sceptics to get your product.



This seems relevant. I found this after I watched the video because I was really confused about all the man-monthing going on.  "Brooks discusses several causes of scheduling failures. The most enduring is his discussion of Brooks's law: Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. Man-month is a hypothetical unit of work representing the work done by one person in one month; _*Brooks's law says that the possibility of measuring useful work in man-months is a myth, and is hence the centerpiece of the book.*"_ (My emphasis added because I'm a tremendous Fractal-worshipping douchebag.)



Alex Kenivel said:


> Yeah I dunno, unless a solid studio/direct sound clip convinces me otherwise, I'll save my saliva. I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech, because I can do that with my pod no problem



I remember I actually owned the floor unit HD500 for a bit, right before I got my Fractal. The HD500 did improve the volume rollback dynamics compared to my previous Line 6 units but the difference with the Axe is remarkable. On the Axe a dimed plexi with the guitar volume rolled back produces a clean tone that is super thick and chunky and sparkly. In other words, it retains the characteristics that define that amp's 'full volume' tone but in a clean voicing. On my POD rolling the volume back just produced a brittle sound. Again a disclaimer, this is coming from a bedroom rocker Yngwie wannabe, not Andy Sneap. 

I'm going to shut up because at this point I'm just describing my asshole and sounding like a Fractal fanboy and/or a Helix hater. I'm just an amateur consumer and I'd love to see the Helix be a smash hit. But if I were on Team Line 6 I'd be unhappy about our product rollout. The Helix has been in Line 6's own hands for years and as SnoozyWyrm said above, it's been 30 seconds of a tweed and 30 seconds of a plexi and the amp dynamics sound as mythical as the man-months stuff. 

Line 6, take a man-months worth of a budget and sit this bad ass Line 6 representative down with both a Helix and a video production team and start selling me some freakin' amp dynamics!!!


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Axayacatl said:


> Though I'll bet you a a man-months worth of sandwiches that Cliff can program something similar for the Axe. A _free firmware upgrade_ where you put the MFC in a special editing mode and hit the relevant foot switch to jump to the correct editing block. Not as polished as the Helix (and a much more expensive initial investment) but I'm sure it can be done.



With current Axe Hardware, it'd be impossible to completely match the way the helix instant editing works - they've mentioned a few times that the footswitches are capacitive - ie they're touch sensitive like your smartphone screen. That's how the editing is working - not by completely depressing and releasing the switch - it's adding a completely new level of control.

Could Cliff do it on a future MFC controller? Almost guaranteed, and I'm sure he will now that Line 6 has brought that capability to the table, but it's already a $700+ piece of gear - it's just gonna get more expensive from there.


----------



## elkinz

*$2799* down here in New Zealand.

*$3985* for a kemper.

*$3799* for an AxeFX XL...


WHY NEW ZEALAND WHYYYYYY!?


----------



## Fretless

To the person with the snuggy picture, I received a snuggy as a gift from one of the agencies we work with, and let me tell you, it's actually kinda nice lol.


----------



## Steinmetzify

elkinz said:


> *$2799* down here in New Zealand.
> 
> *$3985* for a kemper.
> 
> *$3799* for an AxeFX XL...
> 
> 
> WHY NEW ZEALAND WHYYYYYY!?



Is this not something we could help you get around? I've wondered about this a few times seeing how expensive things are for you guys and people in Australia or whatever. Could you throw a friend here $ and have them buy it and ship it, or would that be just as expensive?


----------



## elkinz

steinmetzify said:


> Is this not something we could help you get around? I've wondered about this a few times seeing how expensive things are for you guys and people in Australia or whatever. Could you throw a friend here $ and have them buy it and ship it, or would that be just as expensive?


 

I imagine it would, just the main problem is the cost of shipping and then the import tax. Its at least 15%  I haven't really looked into it too much


----------



## Axayacatl

Fretless said:


> To the person with the snuggy picture, I received a snuggy as a gift from one of the agencies we work with, and let me tell you, it's actually kinda nice lol.



I know this is going to sound strange, but you just sold me on the Line 6 Helix.


----------



## Fathand

Old-school volume pot fiddling works - sold! When I upgrade my home recording setup, the Helix will receive appropriate consideration. 

And I'm thinking also that a Helix + matrix power amp would = win.


----------



## Fretless

Axayacatl said:


> I know this is going to sound strange, but you just sold me on the Line 6 Helix.



My life long goal is complete. Sell an item by advertising how comfortable a snuggy is.

Were I not buying a new hand gun tomorrow (and buying some new suits today), I would be pre ordering the helix. I've used the axe II's effects a lot, and the kemper's effects a lot, but there is something about the line 6 effects that I really like. Maybe I am crazy, but they have a sound to them that I find unique.


----------



## Laimon

Alex Kenivel said:


> I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech



Me neither, if it were for me guitars would have an on/off switch in place of the volume knob


----------



## jbealsmusic

Alex Kenivel said:


> I also don't get why they keep trying to push the "dynamics are great when you roll back the volume knob" speech


Because how an amp interacts with the guitar when the volume is rolled back is important to a lot of guitarists. A lot of guys use their volume knob to influence their tone the same way people use pedals and presets.



> because I can do that with my pod no problem


Rolling the volume back on a POD doesn't change the character or dynamics of the tone as much as it just reduces the gain and low end, leaving you with a cleaner but thinner/lifeless sound. For guitarists who live in the realm of edge-of-breakup and use their volume knob as described, it's been a big reason why they haven't embraced digital modeling.

People all listen for different things to judge the quality of a modeler. It's really funny going from here to other forums and reading people's reviews on modelers.

High-gain Guy's Review Of "X" Modeler
"It sounds fine for cleans and low-gain stuff, but I can't get a useable high-gain sound."

Clean/Edge-of-breakup Guy's Review Of The Same Modeler
"Sounds fine for high-gain stuff, but I can't get useable clean or low-gain sounds."


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I just need an HD high gain demo of the Soldano amp model for me to be sold on this one. The pre amp Slo100 were pretty good in the HD. Recording it with other cab impulses also sounded great. 

I wonder how much of it was improved in the Helix.

They also should do a demo of 4CM mode with amps with series and parallel loops.


----------



## btbamthewell

Has there been any info on effects? Will they basically be the same as HD?...from the marketing it sounds like they wont.

Also any ideas on what the software will be like?


----------



## DarrellM5

btbamthewell said:


> Has there been any info on effects? Will they basically be the same as HD?...from the marketing it sounds like they wont.
> 
> Also any ideas on what the software will be like?



*Per Digital Igloo over on the Line 6 forum:*

Input Blocks:
None, Multi (Guitar, Aux, Variax), Guitar, Aux, Variax, Variax Magnetics, Mic, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, S/PDIF, USB 3/4, USB 5/6, USB 7/8

Output Blocks:
Multi (1/4", XLR, Digital, USB 1/2), Path 2A, Path 2B, Path 2A+B, 1/4", XLR, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Digital (S/PDIF, AES/EBU, or L6 LINK), USB 1/2, USB 3/4, USB 5/6

Distortion Models:
Minotaur, Compulsive Drive, Valve Driver, Top Secret OD, Scream 808, Hedgehog D9, Vermin Dist, Arbitrator Fuzz, Triangle Fuzz, Industrial Fuzz, Tycoctavia Fuzz, Megaphone

Dynamics Models:
Deluxe Comp, Red Squeeze, LA Studio Comp, Noise Gate, Hard Gate

EQ Models:
Simple EQ, Low Cut/High Cut, Parametric, 10-Band Graphic

Modulation Models:
Optical Trem, 60s Bias Trem, Script Mod Phase, Ubiquitous Vibe, Gray Flanger, Harmonic Flanger, Courtesan Flange, Chorus, 70s Chorus, Trinity Chorus, Bubble Vibrato, Vibe Rotary, 122 Rotary, 145 Rotary, AM Ring Mod, Pitch Ring Mod

Delay Models:
Simple Delay, Mod Chorus Echo, Multitap 4, Multitap 6, Ping Pong, Sweep Echo, Ducked Delay, Transistor Tape, Harmony Delay, Bucket Brigade, Adriatic Delay, Elephant Man

Reverb Models:
Plate, Room, Chamber, Hall, Echo, Tile, Cave, Ducking, Octo, 63 Spring, Spring, Particle Verb

Pitch/Synth Models:
Pitch Wham, Twin Harmony, 3 Osc Synth

Filter Models:
Mutant Filter
Mystery Filter [Hi, Stilwelwe miss you, brother!]

Wah Models:
UK Wah 846, Teardrop 310, Fassel, Weeper, Chrome, Chrome Custom, Throaty, Vetta Wah, Colorful, Conductor

Volume/Pan Models:
Volume Pedal, Gain, Pan

Send/Return:
Send 1, Send 2, Send 3, Send 4, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, FX Loop 1, FX Loop 2, FX Loop 3, FX Loop 4, FX Loop 1/2, FX Loop 3/4

Looper:
Mono, Stereo

Split:
Y, A/B, Crossover

Merge:
Mixer

*Also, if by software you mean the editor, it's supposed to be almost identical to what's on the device's screen.*


----------



## btbamthewell

Awesome, thanks buddy!


----------



## Alex Kenivel

jbealsmusic said:


> Because how an amp interacts with the guitar when the volume is rolled back is important to a lot of guitarists. A lot of guys use their volume knob to influence their tone the same way people use pedals and presets.
> 
> Maybe the effect im going for when I use my volume knob this way is different. Maybe I just can't tell one way or the other. Maybe some people are too picky..
> 
> Rolling the volume back on a POD doesn't change the character or dynamics of the tone as much as it just reduces the gain and low end, leaving you with a cleaner but thinner/lifeless sound. For guitarists who live in the realm of edge-of-breakup and use their volume knob as described, it's been a big reason why they haven't embraced digital modeling.
> 
> People all listen for different things to judge the quality of a modeler. It's really funny going from here to other forums and reading people's reviews on modelers.
> 
> High-gain Guy's Review Of "X" Modeler
> "It sounds fine for cleans and low-gain stuff, but I can't get a useable high-gain sound."
> 
> Clean/Edge-of-breakup Guy's Review Of The Same Modeler
> "Sounds fine for high-gain stuff, but I can't get useable clean or low-gain sounds."



I'm an all around player, hi gain, mid gain, edge of breakup, super cleans, etc. I use my volume knob to clean up a high gain tone and for volume swells a lot and always have with every tube amp I've had. Now that I'm using the pod, I'm finding it to be about the same, which is what I based my head scratching on..

Maybe I'm expecting something different that others. Maybe some people are just too picky. Maybe I can't tell the difference.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Alex Kenivel said:


> I'm an all around player, hi gain, mid gain, edge of breakup, super cleans, etc. I use my volume knob to clean up a high gain tone and for volume swells a lot and always have with every tube amp I've had. Now that I'm using the pod, I'm finding it to be about the same, which is what I based my head scratching on..
> 
> Maybe I'm expecting something different that others. Maybe some people are just too picky. Maybe I can't tell the difference.


My only point was that we all listen for different things and are picky about different things to different degrees. I haven't found a single modeler under $2K that reacts the way I expect (perhaps hope) when I roll the volume back. It could just be placebo/nocebo, or maybe I happen to be extra picky about that one thing for some reason. There are probably other things I don't notice or let slide that other guitarists are more picky about.

Use what works for you and rock on. I'm still searching for my "holy grail". Helix looks promising, but I need to get my hands on it to test it out. Fractal's AX8 might be another possibility, depending on its roll-out price and feature set.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

jbealsmusic said:


> Use what works for you and rock on. I'm still searching for my "holy grail". Helix looks promising, but I need to get my hands on it to test it out. Fractal's AX8 might be another possibility, depending on its roll-out price and feature set.



I'm stuck on budget grail for the time being  If it sounds good I'll probably get one. My pod ticks a lot of the boxes on my list and most definitely has its limitations but at its price point I'm willing to live with the workarounds. 

If anything, the Helix should more than trump the 500X for it to be legitimately worth it IMO


----------



## jbealsmusic

Alex Kenivel said:


> I'm stuck on budget grail for the time being  If it sounds good I'll probably get one. My pod ticks a lot of the boxes on my list and most definitely has its limitations but at its price point I'm willing to live with the workarounds.


lol Same here. I've had an RP1000 for about 5 years. It falls short on any number of fronts sound wise and feature wise, but it has served me well and was probably the best $300 I ever spent on a piece of gear.

While I'm willing to try everything under the sun, I only change over my gear if the replacement is an overwhelming upgrade in all areas. It seems every unit on the market has some of the features I'm looking for, but not all of them. To me, it doesn't make sense to buy something else until something comes along that ticks all the boxes.



> If anything, the Helix should more than trump the 500X for it to be legitimately worth it IMO


Let's hope!


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS

They are for sale at American Musical Supply. Im itching to buy because im a broke ass and they have the multiple payments option (3, 5, or 8 easy payments of blah blah). and i suck at saving up. only thing thats really holding me back is i am a metalhead. there are no reviews on the metal tones at all yet. way too early. I want more than my HD Pro X has to offer. I would get an Axe Fx II if you could find it with payment plans. 

Am i being too hasty? Has anyone here played one yet?


----------



## DarrellM5

Djimbo said:


> They are for sale at American Musical Supply. Im itching to buy because im a broke ass and they have the multiple payments option (3, 5, or 8 easy payments of blah blah). and i suck at saving up. only thing thats really holding me back is i am a metalhead. there are no reviews on the metal tones at all yet. way too early. I want more than my HD Pro X has to offer. I would get an Axe Fx II if you could find it with payment plans.
> 
> *Sweetwater has 24 month 0% financing and they add an extra year warranty.*
> 
> Am i being too hasty? Has anyone here played one yet?



*The only people who've gotten their hands on them are Line 6 employees and some beta testers (which may also be employees). Sweetwater got their hands on one to do their review but even that one went back to Line 6.*


----------



## marcwormjim

I really want to be excited for this; and need someone here to do what Line 6 has failed to insofar as convincing me that this is a

1. Game-changer among dozens of competing products (several of which are currently advertised by Line 6 itself) 

2. Price point-contender amongst Kemper, Fractal, and similarly high-end gear in the range

3. Obvious upgrade from the abandoned-but-still-price-controlled POD HD/Amplifi/Firehawk/DT series. 


4. Foward-thinking investment that Line 6 won't abandon. No one familiar with Line 6's attitude toward product life-cycles wants to drop that much money and still live in fear that the company is paying lip-service to Ideascale submissions while R&Ding next year's NAMM flagship that will drop the Helix's resale value by $300.


----------



## jbealsmusic

marcwormjim said:


> I really want to be excited for this; and need someone here to do what Line 6 has failed to insofar as convincing me that this is a
> 
> 1. Game-changer among dozens of competing products (several of which are currently advertised by Line 6 itself)
> 
> 2. Price point-contender amongst Kemper, Fractal, and similarly high-end gear in the range
> 
> 3. Obvious upgrade from the abandoned-but-still-price-controlled POD HD/Amplifi/Firehawk/DT series.
> 
> 4. Foward-thinking investment that Line 6 won't abandon. No one familiar with Line 6's attitude toward product life-cycles wants to drop that much money and still live in fear that the company is paying lip-service to Ideascale submissions while R&Ding next year's NAMM flagship that will drop the Helix's resale value by $300.


1) UI and feature-wise, it blows everything under $2K out of the water. There is no comparison. The only thing left to judge is its tone, which we won't really know until it is on the market.

2) It is $500 cheaper than the KPA and nowhere near the price-point of Axe-fx II. What other all-in-one modelers are in the ~$1500 price range? None as far as I'm aware (yet; AX8 is on the horizon but we don't know what it will sell for).

3) Refer to number one.

4) Agreed. We know based on L6's history that we might get 4 good years of support. After that, who knows... Hopefully this is supported much more long-term than their previous products.


----------



## marcwormjim

Agreed. You do a better job promoting it than Line 6. And I'm not too concerned about its sound-quality.

I forgot to stress that the point about it being an "obvious upgrade" entails justifying costing triple what the HD500 did at launch. We all know R&D has to be paid for, but unless those of us who regularly pushed the HD series to its DSP limit can dial in a patch that convinces us the Helix has 3x the horsepower, I know I'll be disappointed. Justifying both the price-point it was engineered for and the price-point difference between it and the previous flagship-product is an enormous task to live up to in its marketing, no matter how legitimate the overhead is.


The hardware-overhead of my Bias FX rig, for example, is:

$850 for 128gb iPad Air 2, $30 for Bias FX, $30 for expansion packs

$100 for IK blueboard

$30 for M-audio EX-P expression pedal

Around $100 for 24-bit 1/4" interface.

At $1140 (plus an optional $10 for the Bias amp-builder when it's discounted), it's still cheaper than the Helix - So the dealmaker for me will be whether Helix's extra ins-and-outs actually make it the all-in-one solution. I want it to be; so I can leave the delicate iPad screen at home. But then we'll see how durable the Helix's screen is.

I'm in that boat with a lot of people where we're all holding up our money, but I'm waiting for everyone else to throw theirs, first.


----------



## axxessdenied

I watched the demo's on youtube. The noise floor seems to be as terrible as the pod hd series. :/
Still won't replace the axe fx 2 if it's got a terrible noise floor. Dunno if I will get one now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://soundcloud.com/line6/sets/helix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook

First metal clips finally post. Guitars are pretty low in the mix-though. I wish they did some out-of-mix samples as well.


----------



## Dead-Pan

Bass sounds good to me but not so much the heavy guitar, very clear but perhaps too clear and I never thought I would say that. Clear might not even be the right word, almost harsh. Could probably be dialed out...maybe...


----------



## Shask

Dead-Pan said:


> Bass sounds good to me but not so much the heavy guitar, very clear but perhaps too clear and I never thought I would say that. Clear might not even be the right word, almost harsh. Could probably be dialed out...maybe...



I hear the typical "Line 6 sound". Kind of a fuzzy upper midrange that kind of sits over the top of every high gain sound. That might be what you are hearing.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

well, at least the cab sims don't sound too muffled.


----------



## big_aug

I thought all the clips sounded pretty good


----------



## DarrellM5

big_aug said:


> I thought all the clips sounded pretty good



Me too, and that seems to echo the consensus so far on the other forums I'm watching.


----------



## mikah912

The metal ones sounded...kinda dated? Like someone trying to approximate modern djent or metalcore, but using an inappropriate Metallica-sounding tone to do it, almost.

Loved the clean sounds, tho.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

I have to say those 2 metal tones were not impressive to me. They were ok, well the second one was ok, the first one was .

I will have to hear more higher gain/distorted tones before I think about plunking down $1,500 on something, that so far doesn't sound better than my current 11r. But to be fair, it is just the first (obviously) half-ass'd attempt at a heavy tone.

All of the other tones I've heard form it have been awesome! Though I have noticed that official videos/showcases of tones from these companies shows clearly there is a priority of blues/clean/jazz/rock then any extra time is spent (one cheeking) the handful of token heavy tones to showcase. Usually for the heavier stuff, we have to wait for 3rd party showcases/reviews.


----------



## Spinedriver

Clips not withstanding, I'd be willing to bet that 3rd party IRs will probably sound a bit better than the stock ones.


----------



## DarrellM5

These sound much better.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I hope they do a more in-depth video of that they showed at 0:34. A big complaint people seem to have with the unit is that the screen is probably fragile as all hell. I hope they can show it can take all that abuse.


----------



## bloc

Now THAT is how you market a product in this age. Holy hell that vid was so entertaining.


----------



## Shask

bloc said:


> Now THAT is how you market a product in this age. Holy hell that vid was so entertaining.



I agree! Great video!


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Full Mic, Amps, Effects and Cab List updated at the Line 6 website.

Line 6


----------



## Curt

Edit: The more I find about it, the more I'm just tempted to save for the kemper I've been drooling over for ages now.


----------



## lewis

Curt said:


> Edit: The more I find about it, the more I'm just tempted to save for the kemper I've been drooling over for ages now.



Im in this camp entirely.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

MASS DEFECT said:


> Full Mic, Amps, Effects and Cab List updated at the Line 6 website.
> 
> Line 6



Correct me if I am wrong, but they now have a Model of the Peavey 5150 that wasn't there before?!?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but they now have a Model of the Peavey 5150 that wasn't there before?!?



the panama 5150 model has been released as an HD add on bundle months ago. Now they have reworked it for the helix.


----------



## mikah912

Curt said:


> Edit: The more I find about it, the more I'm just tempted to save for the kemper I've been drooling over for ages now.



Like Helix, you can always buy a Kemper on installment plans from American Music. I think it's broken into five chunks so a little shy of $400 each month.


----------



## DarrellM5

MASS DEFECT said:


> the panama 5150 model has been released as an HD add on bundle months ago. Now they have reworked it for the helix.



Actually, they built the Panama 5150 for Helix, using the new HX modeling, and scaled down the code to make it work in some of the HD series like the HD500X.


----------



## DarrellM5

New info from Line 6 and it's really awesome!!! 

I got this from Digital Igloo's post on TGP. Note that a few tremolos were accidentally left off the effects list but will be included at launch. These include the 60s Bias Trem and Optical Trem. Also a Script Mod Phase.

Line 6 just updated the Helix info:

New product info on the Line 6 website:
Line 6

It has a official list of

Amps:

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06439cc0ef55b13d89a4aa8/application/pdf


Cabs:

http://line6.com/data/6/0a064339df6f55b13dacdc933/application/pdf


Mics: 

http://line6.com/data/6/0a064339df7a55b13dcd860fc/application/pdf



And Effects:

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06439cc32f55b13d5d8e678/application/pdf


----------



## Laimon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVOSzWJiNBg

Food for thought


----------



## MASS DEFECT

those were really nice sounding. i'm still skeptical on the high gain sounds though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I really wanna hear some isolated high gain guitar. All the sounds they showed us so far are buried too deep in the mix.


----------



## Laimon

I quote Mass Defect.
All high gain I heard so far has this something plasticky to it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Laimon said:


> I quote Mass Defect.
> All high gain I heard so far has this something plasticky to it.




I just think Sean Halley is not that used to dialing in death metal or thrash sounds with the Helix. I just think he's more into stuff that utilizes more fuzz and classic rock tones. Those were tasty riffs and that tone is really good. 

Could be the player. If they could give it to a player that can run it through the amp models like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vdra-gxJ0

Then, we would have a much better reference.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

MASS DEFECT said:


> the panama 5150 model has been released as an HD add on bundle months ago. Now they have reworked it for the helix.



No, that is not exactly what I mean't. I mean that the list they had of the Helix Amps before (couple weeks ago) didn't have the Panama 5150. At least I didn't see it there, I could have just missed it.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Am I the only one whose feeling like the more clips they put out the less interested I'm getting? Sheesh......looks like I'm saving for Kemper or Axe at this point.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

At this day & age of long tail marketing, you'd think Line 6 is smart enough to put the Helix in the hands of someone like Keith Merrow, Fluff, or Ola to demo the metal tones, but not yet unfortunately. 

Only reasonable explanation, other than marketing incompetence, would be that Line 6 does not want to target the Metal segment 'cause they know Helix doesn't measure up to the competition.


----------



## Shask

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> At this day & age of long tail marketing, you'd think Line 6 is smart enough to put the Helix in the hands of someone like Keith Merrow, Fluff, or Ola to demo the metal tones, but not yet unfortunately.
> 
> Only reasonable explanation, other than marketing incompetence, would be that Line 6 does not want to target the Metal segment 'cause they know Helix doesn't measure up to the competition.



One thing that always made me mad about the HD500 was that it seemed like high gain tones were always a last priority.


----------



## Demiurge

Laimon said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVOSzWJiNBg
> 
> Food for thought



I want one*!






*Tele with a tweed fabric finish.


----------



## marcwormjim

Shask said:


> One thing that always made me mad about the HD500 was that it seemed like Ideascale and attempts to sate the rampant user-complaints and grievances on the official Line 6 board were always a last priority.



It was more like this.


----------



## btbamthewell

Sorry if already posted but the release date for foot pedal version is on Thomann - Line6 Helix Guitar Processor - Thomann Ireland

ETA - 18.09.2015


----------



## xCaptainx

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> At this day & age of long tail marketing, you'd think Line 6 is smart enough to put the Helix in the hands of someone like Keith Merrow, Fluff, or Ola to demo the metal tones, but not yet unfortunately.
> 
> Only reasonable explanation, other than marketing incompetence, would be that Line 6 does not want to target the Metal segment 'cause they know Helix doesn't measure up to the competition.



To be fair, it's not even a product yet. Way too early to be calling it marketing incompetence when a v1.0 product may not even be ready.

Ola has done plenty of videos with the HD Pod range, it's fairly safe to assume that both artists will do a video with the Helix in due time, provided they still offer gear review services.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Fair enough, I guess so far Line 6 is only guilty of hype. At least it's nothing like the Yamaha Reface LOL


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Either they are just figuring metalheads will stay with Kemper/Axe or Line 6 really is this out of touch on what a good metal tone is. And honestly, I'm still not impressed with the rest.


----------



## lewis

TheShreddinHand said:


> Either they are just figuring metalheads will stay with Kemper/Axe or Line 6 really is this out of touch on what a good metal tone is. And honestly, I'm still not impressed with the rest.



I already had preference for the Kemper but I was perfectly willing to give this a chance to turn me back to line 6. (Ive been die hard Line 6 guy for years) and own so many Line 6 products. But your right, the lack of support so far for metal players is exactly why Im still wanting the Kemper over any digital amp product.


----------



## mikah912

To be fair, Line 6 has zero "metal guys" on staff. And everything thus far has been done with pre-release firmware. Obviously, they wouldn't want an Ola or Fluff or whoever to represent their product with unfinished goods, so they are limited on the demos they can do at this point.

If a lot of the guys on this board had to take a high-end modeler and dial in edge-of-breakup tones for amp models of old Fenders for a boutique gear forum....they'd likely fail just as badly as Sean Halley is in these videos.


----------



## Digital Igloo

mikah912 said:


> To be fair, Line 6 has zero "metal guys" on staff. And everything thus far has been done with pre-release firmware. Obviously, they wouldn't want an Ola or Fluff or whoever to represent their product with unfinished goods, so they are limited on the demos they can do at this point.
> 
> If a lot of the guys on this board had to take a high-end modeler and dial in edge-of-breakup tones for amp models of old Fenders for a boutique gear forum....they'd likely fail just as badly as Sean Halley is in these videos.


Half of the Helix team consider themselves "metal guys"; three of my favorite bands are Deafheaven, ISIS, and Gojira. None of us make videos tho'.


----------



## lewis

Digital Igloo said:


> Half of the Helix team consider themselves "metal guys"; three of my favorite bands are Deafheaven, ISIS, and Gojira. None of us make videos tho'.



perhaps change that so we can see what this beast is capable of lol. I wana hear these glorious Metal riffs.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I'm really looking forward to some metal demos of the Helix and cool FX heavy sounds. So far I have not been impressed.


----------



## bhakan

Maybe the reason for the limited metal demos is because metal guys are already invested in modellers. There's already plenty of interest from metal, so the second these hit stores, every big metal youtube guy will have a demo. At the moment though, metal is the genre I know of where big bands use Pods in the studio, so their marketing dollar probably goes farther if the convince blues and classic rock players that it is an option worth considering it, because you know we're all already considering it.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Any company planning to make a profit, specially in the challenging market of musical gear can not afford to dismiss any segment of their prospective customers. Actually I'd even take it further and say that line 6 is making a big mistake already by not properly targeting the metal players.


----------



## xCaptainx

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Any company planning to make a profit, specially in the challenging market of musical gear can not afford to dismiss any segment of their prospective customers. Actually I'd even take it further and say that line 6 is making a big mistake already by not properly targeting the metal players.



Again, you're making statements about L6 failure to market a consumer product that doesn't even exist yet. 

L6 are huge, I'm VERY confident they have a robust marketing strategy and roadmap. Influencer marketing is VERY in right now, and very effective. One a v1.0 product is out, I'm sure seeder units will be provided to key influencers, with our favourite metal video guys being a part of that, no doubt. 

Good example, Bias Desktop. Their v1.0 consumer version announcement was with animals as leaders guitarist. The time, effort and money to do that would have been wasted on alpha/beta builds.


----------



## bhakan

xCaptainx said:


> Again, you're making statements about L6 failure to market a consumer product that doesn't even exist yet.
> 
> L6 are huge, I'm VERY confident they have a robust marketing strategy and roadmap. Influencer marketing is VERY in right now, and very effective. One a v1.0 product is out, I'm sure seeder units will be provided to key influencers, with our favourite metal video guys being a part of that, no doubt.
> 
> Good example, Bias Desktop. Their v1.0 consumer version announcement was with animals as leaders guitarist. The time, effort and money to do that would have been wasted on alpha/beta builds.


This is basically what I was getting at. There's gonna be plenty of proper metal demos once the product is out, but right now they're just trying to grab peoples attention. This thread was how many pages before an actual demo was posted? They got our attention just fine just by announcing the product, now they're trying to grab others attention and then when it's released they'll start actually focusing on demos.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

xCaptainx said:


> Again, you're making statements about L6 failure to market a consumer product that doesn't even exist yet.
> 
> L6 are huge, I'm VERY confident they have a robust marketing strategy and roadmap. Influencer marketing is VERY in right now, and very effective. One a v1.0 product is out, I'm sure seeder units will be provided to key influencers, with our favourite metal video guys being a part of that, no doubt.
> 
> Good example, Bias Desktop. Their v1.0 consumer version announcement was with animals as leaders guitarist. The time, effort and money to do that would have been wasted on alpha/beta builds.



Why announce it at NAMM, release half baked 'metal' demos then? Hype? That's why I mentioned the Yamaha Reface in a previous post, imho, the absolute worst hype campaign in history of mankind. Maybe I missed it, but when is the release date, in Winter NAMM?


----------



## marcwormjim

I wish people wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "HELIX SUCKS 4 METAL" bandwagon.

Line 6 isn't "failing" any more spectacularly than they did with marketing the original Variax line, failing to produce a Variax with roadworthy hardware, trying to spin the DSP limit and poor roadworthiness of the HD500 to be the best thing ever at launch, trying to sweep the false claims of the HD500X fixing the DSP limit under the rug at launch, cultivating a public image of ignoring IdeaScale for five years, only releasing expansions for their products at the end of their lifecycles and then continuing to charge top-dollar for POD XT amps a decade later, hyping every yearly NAMM-release of their iPhone-controllable bedroom amp or multi-FX as a "gamechanger" and then rewarding the consumers of said products by rendering them obsolete in the resale market through releasing a replacement flagship-product the following year; claiming that they'd "done the market research; and their consumer base doesn't want IR loading" a month before announcing the Helix and its IR loading, or striking when the iron was years-cold to put out an iOS POD app that could compete with Yonac and Positive Grid's products.

It's not going to kill anybody to just wait until the product comes out, before slinging the mud - There's no shortage of other things to hate on. Even if Helix doesn't seem like the best thing since sliced bread at-launch, just wait a few months and you can snag any one of dozens with hairline screen-cracks for under a grand off eBay.


----------



## xCaptainx

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Why announce it at NAMM, release half baked 'metal' demos then? Hype? That's why I mentioned the Yamaha Reface in a previous post, imho, the absolute worst hype campaign in history of mankind. Maybe I missed it, but when is the release date, in Winter NAMM?



I have no idea, and I have no answers, which I am very comfortable with. I have no idea how well it'll do metal, much like how I have no idea how well it'll do Norwegian folk music either. I'll wait patiently until a) It's a full fledged product, and b) it's in the hands of metal heads and hey, folk music fanatics alike. 

id you don't want to fall for what you are calling 'hype campaigns' then here's an easy solution; don't consume it. Wait for the consumer model.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Why announce it at NAMM, release half baked 'metal' demos then? Hype? That's why I mentioned the Yamaha Reface in a previous post, imho, the absolute worst hype campaign in history of mankind. Maybe I missed it, but when is the release date, in Winter NAMM?



You're comparing this to the "worst hype campaign in history" because there isn't a "decent" high-gain demo? 

Well okay then.


----------



## Spinedriver

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You're comparing this to the "worst hype campaign in history" because there isn't a "decent" high-gain demo?
> 
> Well okay then.



That's the thing, when the AmpliFire pedal was announced people were super excited because you could load IRs. Even after a few months, I think there's still only about a half dozen demos up that could be considered "high gain". Granted, Atomic Amps doesn't have the marketing power that Line 6/Yamaha has but the point is that there are tons of amps & pedals that people buy without seeing adequate demo videos. 20 years ago, there was no such thing. If you wanted to buy a pedal or something, you had to either go by descriptions and/or written reviews or you had to actually try it out first.

That being said, just because there's a lack of Youtube videos prior to something's release you can't really make an informed decision.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

mikah912 said:


> And everything thus far has been done with pre-release firmware.



I must have missed this, where did they mention that? And if that's the case, why release videos/demos at all if it's incomplete?


----------



## mikah912

TheShreddinHand said:


> I must have missed this, where did they mention that? And if that's the case, why release videos/demos at all if it's incomplete?



Digital Igloo said elsewhere that the units themselves are already shipping from the manufacturing place of origin. But before they can be sold, they have to be flashed with v1.0 firmware - meaning none of them have it as of yet. Finally, the manual will be packaged as a USB stick included in the box.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

mikah912 said:


> Digital Igloo said elsewhere that the units themselves are already shipping from the manufacturing place of origin. But before they can be sold, they have to be flashed with v1.0 firmware - meaning none of them have it as of yet. Finally, the manual will be packaged as a USB stick included in the box.



Ah ok, thanks. But the one Sean is using in the demos doesn't have new firmware? I find that hard to believe.

I don't know, but I get a better metal tone out of my 14.5 year old AX2 212! (at reasonable volume and not cranked though )


----------



## mikah912

Let's not pretend that there aren't bad metal demos of the Axe-FX II or Kemper out there. Or pretty much any real tube high gain amp too (Premier Guitar "Monsters of High Gain" series, anyone?).


----------



## Sumsar

^ Or every video with Paul from guitar world?


----------



## asher

Sumsar said:


> ^ Or every video with Paul from guitar world?



See sig.


----------



## Sumsar

asher said:


> See sig.



Love it!


----------



## mikah912

Sumsar said:


> ^ Or every video with Paul from guitar world?



Exactly. Look at his review of the PRS Archon, then look at the Keith Merrow/Jeff Loomis playthrough of it for "Inexhaustible Savagery". 

It sounds like a completely different piece of equipment from an entirely different manufacturer.


----------



## cwhitey2

Digital Igloo said:


> Half of the Helix team consider themselves "metal guys"; three of my favorite bands are Deafheaven, ISIS, and Gojira. None of us make videos tho'.



Or setup the patches!


----------



## mikah912

cwhitey2 said:


> Or setup the patches!



Stevic from Twelve Foot Ninja is writing presets for Helix. God willing, they bagged John Browne and some other POD-friendly contemporary metal artists to do the same.


----------



## Digital Igloo

cwhitey2 said:


> Or setup the patches!


We're making hundreds of mid-gain Plexi blues presets. Hope you guys are all 50-year-old dentists. 

I kid. Plenty of metal stuff to be had.


----------



## elkinz

Digital Igloo said:


> We're making hundreds of mid-gain Plexi blues presets. Hope you guys are all 50-year-old dentists.
> 
> I kid. Plenty of metal stuff to be had.


 

I very nearly missed the _tiny _text. hahaha 

On the Brightside, if you make hundreds of mid-gain plexi blue presets Paul from GW will have a field day!


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You're comparing this to the "worst hype campaign in history" because there isn't a "decent" high-gain demo?
> 
> Well okay then.



Not comparing per se but if companies with great history like Yamaha can fall victim to the hype epidemic, others may, and if all I'm seeing from line 6 is gui demos and half a$$'d metal tones, then I'm not interested, sorry! And saying the product is not ready for release while it already shipped is a really lame excuse.

I HOPE this will be a contender for Kemper because more competition is only good for us.


----------



## mikah912

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Not comparing per se but if companies with great history like Yamaha can fall victim to the hype epidemic, others may, and if all I'm seeing from line 6 is gui demos and half a$$'d metal tones, then I'm not interested, sorry! And saying the product is not ready for release while it already shipped is a really lame excuse.



I didn't say the product wasn't ready for release. It most certainly is, but it's a foreign made product that has to be reflashed, QCed, and then coordinated with a sustained marketing blitz with retailers. 

Given all of those considerations, I think proving to individual internet commenters that it can do X sound 30 days before release ranks pretty low on the totem pole, and rightfully so. 

No real metal players have demo'd the unit yet When they do, we'll see/hear quality metal tones, I suspect. It's not like the HD generation is some blight on amp modeling that has to be 100 percent erased and moved away from for Line 6 to make a quality product.

It was already pretty close. This - on paper - has improvements in both amp modeling and IR versatility, so it's safe to assume it's there...we just have yet to hear it.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

Line 6 posted some new clips on SC, including this.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/line6/metal-full-mix[/SC]

This one sounds pretty decent to me.


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

Did someone realise they really had to post some good metal clips and suddenly started trying to?


----------



## jbealsmusic

Surprised no one posted this yet.


----------



## SilentCartographer

are there any high gain examples on vid? I haven't been able to find any as of yet


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Well that SC clip and SD video sounded great!


----------



## Glass Cloud

SilentCartographer said:


> are there any high gain examples on vid? I haven't been able to find any as of yet



Yes. Someone posted one literally one post before yours.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

Glass Cloud said:


> Yes. Someone posted one literally one post before yours.



That wasn't metal though I want metal!


----------



## SnowfaLL

Where did that SD video say it was the Helix? I didnt see it in the description/anything. Sounds good tho, I hope thats what it was (not that I'll be buying this Helix, hoping for a smaller version in the future like the Pod Desktop.. Otherwise its the Fractal AX8 for me)


----------



## that short guy

SnowfaLL said:


> Where did that SD video say it was the Helix? I didnt see it in the description/anything. Sounds good tho, I hope thats what it was (not that I'll be buying this Helix, hoping for a smaller version in the future like the Pod Desktop.. Otherwise its the Fractal AX8 for me)



it don't think it said it in the description (full disclosure I didn't really look) but you can clearly see it a few times throughout the vid


----------



## jbealsmusic

SnowfaLL said:


> Where did that SD video say it was the Helix? I didnt see it in the description/anything. Sounds good tho, I hope thats what it was (not that I'll be buying this Helix, hoping for a smaller version in the future like the Pod Desktop.. Otherwise its the Fractal AX8 for me)


You can see him playing through it throughout the video. Can't tell whether he's using it for FX only, but since Paul is sponsored by L6 and pretty much always plays through their stuff on demos like this, I imagine he's using the Helix for the majority of the tones.


----------



## The Reverend

Honestly, I've always been the type to completely ignore reviews unless they're mostly negative. I've owned two PODs, the XT and the HD500, and I got tones out of them that I loved. There were a few guys in the POD thread who were practically gods at setting up patches even on the HD's limited pool of high-gain amps. 

More to the point, though, is that I go into a lot of things fully expecting that the reviews are going to be catered towards my needs. My tastes tend to run towards the niche, comparatively speaking, and so expecting a company to put out a demo of what I consider a good metal tone is out of the question. I'm willing to bet that those of you who aren't satisfied with the videos fall in the same category. If you like H.P. Lovecraft, you wouldn't expect a glowing review of the Twilight series to apply to you, would you?


----------



## Laimon

The Reverend said:


> Honestly, I've always been the type to completely ignore reviews unless they're mostly negative. I've owned two PODs, the XT and the HD500, and I got tones out of them that I loved. There were a few guys in the POD thread who were practically gods at setting up patches even on the HD's limited pool of high-gain amps.
> 
> More to the point, though, is that I go into a lot of things fully expecting that the reviews are going to be catered towards my needs. My tastes tend to run towards the niche, comparatively speaking, and so expecting a company to put out a demo of what I consider a good metal tone is out of the question. I'm willing to bet that those of you who aren't satisfied with the videos fall in the same category. If you like H.P. Lovecraft, you wouldn't expect a glowing review of the Twilight series to apply to you, would you?



Well, if by niche you mean Deathspell Omega, no, they aren't covering that. If you mean djent/sorta Meshuggah stuff, they did.


----------



## Lain

What i have been saying all along is still true!


----------



## wakjob

Anyone pre-order one?


----------



## Fathand

Damn those Pearly gates pickups sounded nice on that clip. 

...and I won't take the Helix seriously until I hear how it can do an overdriven Marshall JCM800 sound - that's my baseline for just about anything. Screw your modern metal amp needs.


----------



## Spinedriver

wakjob said:


> Anyone pre-order one?



Apparently they're retailing for $1,879 up here, so I think I'll be taking a pass for a while.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Spinedriver said:


> Apparently they're retailing for $1,879 up here, so I think I'll be taking a pass for a while.


Yup. Our dollar is in the tank right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they came in around CAD$1999 to start.


----------



## big_aug

wakjob said:


> Anyone pre-order one?



I preordered through Sweetwater. I did the 36 month financing promo with 10% off so it won't hurt too much. Ill set up autopay and forget about it.


----------



## elkinz

$2800 retail in New Zealand here


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Helix 4 Cable Mode demo...


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

MASS DEFECT said:


> Helix 4 Cable Mode demo...




All that routing possibilities and he's showing 4 cable method... -_-


----------



## MrYakob

KristapsCoCoo said:


> All that routing possibilities and he's showing 4 cable method... -_-



Makes sense though doesn't it? If it's anything like the HD series then a lot of people are going to be looking at this unit to just run effects through 4CM. Every other post in the HD thread was asking about how to do 4CM at one point.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

MrYakob said:


> Makes sense though doesn't it? If it's anything like the HD series then a lot of people are going to be looking at this unit to just run effects through 4CM. Every other post in the HD thread was asking about how to do 4CM at one point.



Yeah, it makes sense, but the main thing why I would consider getting this is all those routing possibilities beyond 4CM.


----------



## big_aug

KristapsCoCoo said:


> Yeah, it makes sense, but the main thing why I would consider getting this is all those routing possibilities beyond 4CM.



Pretty sure he just threw that video together because he was using it for a gig or something. If wasn't a show off feature type video.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

the video was just impromptu i think. not official line 6 vid but just an FYI vid. FYI That you can do 4cm without going through all the input/output/mixer/studio eq leveling hassle like in the hd500. 

Looks like they solved the tone suck problem huh?


----------



## Kristianx510

So for anyone who plans on getting one or already got one.. Are you going with the standard or rack model? I can't decide on one or the other. I've always owned rack gear(Pod XT Pro, HD Pro, Axe FX), but am starting to think its a little pointless to spend so much extra money to get the same thing. What's your take on it? Is it worth the extra money to have the brain of yore rig separate from everything else? Or should I just go with the floor model and save myself some money?


----------



## big_aug

Kristianx510 said:


> So for anyone who plans on getting one or already got one.. Are you going with the standard or rack model? I can't decide on one or the other. I've always owned rack gear(Pod XT Pro, HD Pro, Axe FX), but am starting to think its a little pointless to spend so much extra money to get the same thing. What's your take on it? Is it worth the extra money to have the brain of yore rig separate from everything else? Or should I just go with the floor model and save myself some money?



If you play a lot of gigs, I could see owning a separate rack unit. I personally want everything in that one package, but I'm not playing gigs and stuff. $500 is a big chunk of change.


----------



## metal_sam14

Kristianx510 said:


> So for anyone who plans on getting one or already got one.. Are you going with the standard or rack model? I can't decide on one or the other. I've always owned rack gear(Pod XT Pro, HD Pro, Axe FX), but am starting to think its a little pointless to spend so much extra money to get the same thing. What's your take on it? Is it worth the extra money to have the brain of yore rig separate from everything else? Or should I just go with the floor model and save myself some money?



Im going with the floor model, it condenses my rig to only 4 things: Guitar case, pedal case, 2x12 cab and a small case with all my spare bits. Makes load in/out super quick, plus I just bought a smaller car so the space saved will be nice.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I really hope they have new amp models and FX in the future for the Helix and not charge for them a la Axe FX. The amp models and FX right now are just the same as the Pod HD correct? WOuld have been cool if they re modeled the Big Bottom amp for the Helix.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

MF says Helix floor model will ship on 9/25, so it's another month b4 we see real demos


----------



## elkinz

Ericjutsu said:


> I really hope they have new amp models and FX in the future for the Helix and not charge for them a la Axe FX. The amp models and FX right now are just the same as the Pod HD correct? WOuld have been cool if they re modeled the Big Bottom amp for the Helix.


 

as I understood it, all (or most of them) have been remodeling specifically for helix.


----------



## Dylemus

I really hope the Helix can live up to what the Axe-Fx can do. I'd love to get an Axe-fx for a thousand dollars cheaper lolol


----------



## Matyrker

Is this available as a rack model?


----------



## knet370

Matyrker said:


> Is this available as a rack model?



yup
Line 6 Helix Rack Guitar Multi-Effects Processor | Sweetwater.com


----------



## Kristianx510

The line 6 rep for my work will be in on Thursday with the Helix to show us how it is. I'll be sure to report back.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers

cwhitey2 said:


> Or setup the patches!



I'd be all over for Isis and Deafheaven patches to be honest.


----------



## Lain

Edit: Nevermind. Just saw they changed the price.


----------



## big_aug

Kristianx510 said:


> The line 6 rep for my work will be in on Thursday with the Helix to show us how it is. I'll be sure to report back.



Can't wait to hear what you think


----------



## cwhitey2

bythepainiseetheothers said:


> I'd be all over for Isis and Deafheaven patches to be honest.



Those are the only tonez I'm looking to get out of this unit tbh.


----------



## lewis

Lain said:


> Edit: Nevermind. Just saw they changed the price.



Have they?. Care to elaborate?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Have they?. Care to elaborate?



Was probably a price error somewheres.


----------



## Lain

Yep, i looked at a local store and the rack version (without the footswitch) was 500 bucks more expensive than the floor model. I wanted to ask why.

When i visited the site again shortly after making the post to double check if the optional footswitch controller was really not included, they changed the price already.

Still the rackmount has less buttons and no expression predal but costs the same. Never really used rack mounted stuff myself. So why is that so? Shouldn't the rackmount be cheaper?


----------



## Nick

I think the rackmount has more connectivity than the floor model. That tended to be the case with their previous rack versions.

UK prices are:

£1,070 - Floor Model
£1,070 - Rack Model
£350 (i think) - Rack floor controller

Source: Andertons have it up for pre order.

The fact this thing will take 3rd party IR's is great because I think it will bring Line 6 back into relevance and I think the price is reasonably competitive. Will I sell my axe fx 2 and buy one, no chance. But will it be a legit option for someone in the market for a top end modeler, absolutely at that price point.


----------



## vent187

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/line6/metal-scream-808-angl-meteor?in=line6/sets/helix[/SC]

Has anyone heard these yet? Some Helix metal tonage.


----------



## Nick

sounds decent. Would be cool to get some real metal up there and not just the popular bro metal quasi-djent they have. Thats the in thing just now though and probably what will shift units.

For me I want to hear the sort of imperfections you hear in a real amp and modern metal has all but eliminated that sort of thing from mixes. Maybe I'm just too old and I dont get current music but I think these units should be judged on whether they do all the things real amps do not just the good things.


----------



## lewis

vent187 said:


> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/line6/metal-scream-808-angl-meteor?in=line6/sets/helix[/SC]
> 
> Has anyone heard these yet? Some Helix metal tonage.



this sounds really really decent.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Not sure if its the two guys hyping it up, but they have REALLY good things to say about it.

They also say it weights 15 pounds. That's 5 pounds heavier than the HD500.

EDIT: They demo the 5150 at 9:30. Dual Recto at 12:25. Uberschall (lead tone) at 25:02. 

They sound kinda muddy, but I found all the stock patches on a POD HD sounded muddy without any kind of TS in front, and I'm guessing they were running most of the patches without a boost. Also probably has to do with them trying to get something more natural sounding, so it doesn't sound unnaturally tight. 

Also, the tuner is really nice. Probably the best tuner I've seen on a modeler for obvious reasons.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers

cwhitey2 said:


> Those are the only tonez I'm looking to get out of this unit tbh.



Same, add some ambient stuff like Tim Hecker and some Sludge tones and I'm in.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Not sure if its the two guys hyping it up, but they have REALLY good things to say about it.
> 
> They also say it weights 15 pounds. That's 5 pounds heavier than the HD500.
> 
> EDIT: They demo the 5150 at 9:30. Dual Recto at 12:25. Uberschall (lead tone) at 25:02.
> 
> They sound kinda muddy, but I found all the stock patches on a POD HD sounded muddy without any kind of TS in front, and I'm guessing they were running most of the patches without a boost. Also probably has to do with them trying to get something more natural sounding, so it doesn't sound unnaturally tight.
> 
> Also, the tuner is really nice. Probably the best tuner I've seen on a modeler for obvious reasons.




That 5150 sounded goooood and juicy!


----------



## mikah912

I thought all of the tones were amazing, really. I'm swung back toward ordering this puppy now.


----------



## Lain

Certainly sounds good in that demo. And they seem to have finally lost the "Line 6 tone" that i hated in all the Pod generations.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers

Sounds great!


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

This review sounds good. Looks like the unit is indeed worth the money!


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Impressive tones. I'm happy that this isn't just a newer updated POD but a genuine new product that sounds good with new modelling for the amps and new cab models (Line 6 cab models have always been horrible in my experience).

This may be a real competitor for Axe Fx 2 going forward, especially with everything in a pedalboard version which is great for live use and saving space (don't need the rack with an uber expensive pedalboard controller).


----------



## Dead-Pan

Sounds good but I was under the impression at first that is was a camera mic, they then stated in the video that the guitar was indeed recorded direct. That changes things for me.


----------



## remus1710

can't wait to see a straight comparasion between the axe fx and this from ola or someone in the metal scene... i ve saved up for a year now... and i don t know what to buy :|||


----------



## AdenM

Sounds great. Interested to hear it through a mic'd cab, it seems pretty organic already.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

when they switched fram strat to a les paul, you could hear the nuances you couldn't hear from the previous pods.

these models sound fat, raw and not thin-ish/overly trebly like the hd. you got that amp in a room vibe going on. i think i'm sold.


----------



## Spinedriver

Not to mention the fact that they were also probably using the stock cabs instead of Ownhammer/Redwirez/GuitarHacks, etc... which would probably improve the sound quite a bit.


----------



## elkinz

man that video has far surpassed my expectations of how it would sound. It sounds fantastic!!

Surprised at how... non-digital it sounds!


----------



## Radau

Colour me impressed! Now if only we could hear some Bass tones


----------



## bloc

I'm really happy this thing is sounding kickass. Despite being a very satisfied Axe owner, I can't wait to see the drama unfold involving other modeling companies and their users


----------



## elkinz

With this Helix coming out, I feel as though we are gonna have some fantastic selection between all these high end digital modelers. 

I think its fantastic line 6 is bring something to the board like this, because its only going to promote improvement and innovation between companies! 

But my GOD that rack helix is seriously nice looking. Aesthetics win me over sometimes :s


----------



## asher

bloc said:


> I'm really happy this thing is sounding kickass. Despite being a very satisfied Axe owner, I can't wait to see the drama unfold involving other modeling companies and their users



Solid competition is always a plus, dramatainment aside


----------



## Alex Kenivel

I can't believe it. Rob Chapman just sold me on a HX


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Welp, .....

Now I rEALLY WANT ONE, because that sounded GOOD.


----------



## bloc

Paul is just a fantastic player. He's a real asset to Line 6 and I'm glad he was chosen for this demo. As for the OTHER Paul from a certain magazine...well....here's some blues.


----------



## vent187

That 5150 sounds soooooooo good!


----------



## ryanscott6

Every time I see one of these I get more and more hyped for the interface. I know in the end, the sound is all that matters, but working with the Helix seems like a joy compared to some other modelers out there. It makes the interface on the Kemper and the Axefx seem archaic in comparison.


----------



## Veldar

Radau said:


> Colour me impressed! Now if only we could hear some Bass tones



I think I might get one and pair it with my Aguilar preamp so I can get rid of my pedal board.


----------



## Radau

Veldar said:


> I think I might get one and pair it with my Aguilar preamp so I can get rid of my pedal board.



I'll probably do the same with my B7K to be honest


----------



## slapnutz

bloc said:


> Paul is just a fantastic player. He's a real asset to Line 6 and I'm glad he was chosen for this demo. As for the OTHER Paul from a certain magazine...well....here's some blues.





Dont worry, he'll get around to Demoing it. "Hi Im Paul from GW, here we have a Line6 Helix, I'll be playing through this 7 string floating trem tuned to Double drop B"

... plays some blues.


----------



## bythepainiseetheothers

slapnutz said:


> Dont worry, he'll get around to Demoing it. "Hi Im Paul from GW, here we have a Line6 Helix, I'll be playing through this 7 string floating trem tuned to Double drop B"
> 
> ... plays some blues.



As it's should be! Hahaha


----------



## asher

slapnutz said:


> Dont worry, he'll get around to Demoing it. "Hi Im Paul from GW, here we have a Line6 Helix, I'll be playing through this 7 string floating trem tuned to Double drop B"
> 
> ... plays some blues.



Sig for reference (this may be the second time I've done that here )


----------



## lewis

slapnutz said:


> Dont worry, he'll get around to Demoing it. "Hi Im Paul from GW, here we have a Line6 Helix, I'll be playing through this 7 string floating trem tuned to Double drop B"
> 
> ... plays some blues.



 


 - Blues


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

slapnutz said:


> Dont worry, he'll get around to Demoing it. "Hi Im Paul from GW, here we have a Line6 Helix, I'll be playing through this 7 string floating trem tuned to Double drop B"
> 
> ... plays some blues.


----------



## DarrellM5

Although I've had Helix on pre-order for awhile now, the Anderton's video, along with a few others, have really reinforced my decision. I'm really excited to start experimenting with it.


----------



## big_aug

DarrellM5 said:


> Although I've had Helix on pre-order for awhile now, the Anderton's video, along with a few others, have really reinforced my decision. I'm really excited to start experimenting with it.



Yea, I preordered a long time ago, but I kept having second thoughts. I'm excited as hell now. All I've wanted is an all in one setup that's easy to use. That video made it pretty clear that it'll sound good right out if the box without much work. 

Can't wait to get it. I need to get a laptop so I can start recording and stuff.


----------



## Kristianx510

So here's my write up on my first impressions with the Helix

So I got to work and the Line 6 rep was already there and had everything set up. We had it going direct into a QSC PA speaker.

My first impression was that the unit was built like a tank. It looked and felt incredible. We turned it on and went through some patches he made over the past couple months he had the Helix and each one sounded amazing. The quality of the sound was hands down the best I've ever heard from a digital amp(I've owned several PODS, an Axe FX, and use Kempers frequently). We went through so many of the models and each one was a perfect representation of the amp. 

He then gave me a quick run down of all the features. Most of with I already knew about from watching videos, but it was nice actually seeing them hands on and demonstrated for me.

After a quick walk through we got to actually making some patches. I couldn't believe how quickly I got the hang of using this thing. Obviously with working with other modelers in the past I had a good idea of what I was doing, but everything on the Helix is laid out so well and it's really unbelievably accessible. I was even using the more in depth features like the touch capacitive foots witches to tweak things, and it was so easy and fast I couldn't believe how good my patches sounded in such a short amount of time.


Lastly before he left I talked to him briefly on the rack vs. floorboard versions. I explained to him how I've always had the rack version of all my units and prefer it because I don't love the idea of my amp being on the floor or stepped on haha. He told me about all the tests they put it through to make sure it can hold up on
The round, and even explained to me how he has been traveling with the Helix. Whenever he flies with it he throws it in a suit case and checks it onto the plane as opposed to bringing it as a carry on. Even with doing that and owning it for a couple months the unit looked and operated good as new.


All in all.. There's no way I'm NOT buying. Everyone at my work quickly became believers and a good amount of us will be getting them as soon as we can, and I would recommend the same to anyone thinking about getting a new digital amp.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Kristianx510 said:


> So here's my write up on my first impressions with the Helix
> 
> So I got to work and the Line 6 rep was already there and had everything set up. We had it going direct into a QSC PA speaker.
> 
> My first impression was that the unit was built like a tank. It looked and felt incredible. We turned it on and went through some patches he made over the past couple months he had the Helix and each one sounded amazing. The quality of the sound was hands down the best I've ever heard from a digital amp(I've owned several PODS, an Axe FX, and use Kempers frequently). We went through so many of the models and each one was a perfect representation of the amp.
> 
> He then gave me a quick run down of all the features. Most of with I already knew about from watching videos, but it was nice actually seeing them hands on and demonstrated for me.
> 
> After a quick walk through we got to actually making some patches. I couldn't believe how quickly I got the hang of using this thing. Obviously with working with other modelers in the past I had a good idea of what I was doing, but everything on the Helix is laid out so well and it's really unbelievably accessible. I was even using the more in depth features like the touch capacitive foots witches to tweak things, and it was so easy and fast I couldn't believe how good my patches sounded in such a short amount of time.
> 
> 
> Lastly before he left I talked to him briefly on the rack vs. floorboard versions. I explained to him how I've always had the rack version of all my units and prefer it because I don't love the idea of my amp being on the floor or stepped on haha. He told me about all the tests they put it through to make sure it can hold up on
> The round, and even explained to me how he has been traveling with the Helix. Whenever he flies with it he throws it in a suit case and checks it onto the plane as opposed to bringing it as a carry on. Even with doing that and owning it for a couple months the unit looked and operated good as new.
> 
> 
> All in all.. There's no way I'm NOT buying. Everyone at my work quickly became believers and a good amount of us will be getting them as soon as we can, and I would recommend the same to anyone thinking about getting a new digital amp.




Awesome! Did you get to try the pre amp models through a power amp? Is it really miles above the HD500 in terms of the quality of the modeling?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Did the Ghetto Rig vid get posted? Best it's sounded yet to me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

steinmetzify said:


> Did the Ghetto Rig vid get posted? Best it's sounded yet to me.




This one?


----------



## Kristianx510

MASS DEFECT said:


> Awesome! Did you get to try the pre amp models through a power amp? Is it really miles above the HD500 in terms of the quality of the modeling?



Unfortunately I didn't get to try it through a power amp. But if you ask me if it can sound good through an PA speaker, it'll sound killer through a power amp and cab. And I will say it really is miles above the HD. I'm going on record and saying it sounds better and more lifelike than an Axe FX.


----------



## Laimon

Kristianx510 said:


> I'm going on record and saying it sounds better and more lifelike than an Axe FX.



<Oprah mode on>
No he didn't! 
</Oprah mode off>



(btw, Axe FX I or II?)


----------



## lewis

Kristianx510 said:


> Unfortunately I didn't get to try it through a power amp. But if you ask me if it can sound good through an PA speaker, it'll sound killer through a power amp and cab. And I will say it really is miles above the HD. I'm going on record and saying it sounds better and more lifelike than an Axe FX.



If thats the case, Line 6 will dominate this market if they can finally shake that tag of "poor mans" digital product they seem to have.

Their pricing is so competitive against the opposition. I can see em making a tonne of money if this is as good as your saying.


----------



## Nick

my friend is thinking of getting one of these so im happy it sounds like it will be good. it will be interesting to see if Line6 drop their bull.... of paid updates as they seem to have dropped the bull.... of not using 3rd party IRs on this unit as well.

If they keep paid updates in place I still see them being second place behind Fractal in the digital market but I reckon they will beat out Kemper if the tones are as good as described above.


----------



## lewis

Nick said:


> my friend is thinking of getting one of these so im happy it sounds like it will be good. it will be interesting to see if Line6 drop their bull.... of paid updates as they seem to have dropped the bull.... of not using 3rd party IRs on this unit as well.
> 
> If they keep paid updates in place I still see them being second place behind Fractal in the digital market but I reckon they will beat out Kemper if the tones are as good as described above.



Im still leaning towards a Kemper regardless and I own so many Line 6 products now its stupid. Ive grown tired of them tbh.


----------



## Alex6534

Kristianx510 said:


> So here's my write up on my first impressions with the Helix
> 
> So I got to work and the Line 6 rep was already there and had everything set up. We had it going direct into a QSC PA speaker.
> 
> My first impression was that the unit was built like a tank. It looked and felt incredible. We turned it on and went through some patches he made over the past couple months he had the Helix and each one sounded amazing. The quality of the sound was hands down the best I've ever heard from a digital amp(I've owned several PODS, an Axe FX, and use Kempers frequently). We went through so many of the models and each one was a perfect representation of the amp.
> 
> He then gave me a quick run down of all the features. Most of with I already knew about from watching videos, but it was nice actually seeing them hands on and demonstrated for me.
> 
> After a quick walk through we got to actually making some patches. I couldn't believe how quickly I got the hang of using this thing. Obviously with working with other modelers in the past I had a good idea of what I was doing, but everything on the Helix is laid out so well and it's really unbelievably accessible. I was even using the more in depth features like the touch capacitive foots witches to tweak things, and it was so easy and fast I couldn't believe how good my patches sounded in such a short amount of time.
> 
> 
> Lastly before he left I talked to him briefly on the rack vs. floorboard versions. I explained to him how I've always had the rack version of all my units and prefer it because I don't love the idea of my amp being on the floor or stepped on haha. He told me about all the tests they put it through to make sure it can hold up on
> The round, and even explained to me how he has been traveling with the Helix. Whenever he flies with it he throws it in a suit case and checks it onto the plane as opposed to bringing it as a carry on. Even with doing that and owning it for a couple months the unit looked and operated good as new.
> 
> 
> All in all.. There's no way I'm NOT buying. Everyone at my work quickly became believers and a good amount of us will be getting them as soon as we can, and I would recommend the same to anyone thinking about getting a new digital amp.



So how would you compare it to the Kemper? I use that with an Alto TS115A at the moment. One rack for gigging and one lunchbox for studio, considering selling one if this is as good as it looks.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

The hype is real. I'm glad I might actually get the chance to demo it before I buy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Rob and Lee are having way too much fun with it, especially starting at 11:50.


----------



## Kristianx510

Laimon said:


> <Oprah mode on>
> No he didn't!
> </Oprah mode off>
> 
> 
> 
> (btw, Axe FX I or II?)



Axe FX 2 XL+ or whatever model they're on now.





Alex6534 said:


> So how would you compare it to the Kemper? I use that with an Alto TS115A at the moment. One rack for gigging and one lunchbox for studio, considering selling one if this is as good as it looks.



I would say it sounds just as good and it's more flexible.


----------



## big_aug

Stop it. Just stop it. You are making me so damn hot for Helix.


----------



## Alex6534

Kristianx510 said:


> Axe FX 2 XL+ or whatever model they're on now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say it sounds just as good and it's more flexible.



What about dynamics?


----------



## QuantumCybin

Watched the whole 43 minute video and I have to say, I'm getting some serious GAS. It sounds incredible!


----------



## Steinmetzify

Kristianx510 said:


> <snip for length>



So let me get this right....you work for a store that's going to sell these things, correct?


----------



## big_aug

"I think Line 6 could have pitched this as a direct competitor to the AxeFx, but they didn't. It's like half the price."


----------



## TheShreddinHand

F, this interface and everything it's capable of is so impressive..... I'm still not convinced the tone is as good as a Kemper though. I guess the good news is I can try one for myself in a month or so to see.


----------



## Kristianx510

steinmetzify said:


> So let me get this right....you work for a store that's going to sell these things, correct?



Correct I work for Guitar Center. Why?


----------



## Kristianx510

Alex6534 said:


> What about dynamics?



With how they created the amp models for Helix, it's as dynamic as the actual amp is. It genuinely feels like playing the real version of each amp.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Kristianx510 said:


> Correct I work for Guitar Center. Why?



Same reason I wouldn't buy something based on an Anderton review, that's all.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

steinmetzify said:


> Same reason I wouldn't buy something based on an Anderton review, that's all.



The same guys that got Mesa butthurt because they criticized a product, and released a 2nd video that was cringe city?


----------



## big_aug

steinmetzify said:


> Same reason I wouldn't buy something based on an Anderton review, that's all.



Yep, I bet he'll make a ton of money from all the people making online purchases and from all the sales at stores across the country. The slight uptick in sales due to his review may very well make him a huge chunk of change.


----------



## Kristianx510

steinmetzify said:


> Same reason I wouldn't buy something based on an Anderton review, that's all.



How well Helix sells doesn't affect me at all. I don't work for Line 6. I make money from personally selling stuff in my store. Not from writing reviews on a forum lol. If everyone on here wants to order Helixes from me, I'm not going to complain or try and stop anyone.. But that's not the point here. If I was bias about helix because it benefited me I would probably go tell people I know personally. Not you guys.


----------



## Steinmetzify

big_aug said:


> Yep, I bet he'll make a ton of money from all the people making online purchases and from all the sales at stores across the country. The slight uptick in sales due to his review may very well make him a huge chunk of change.



Uh...that wasn't the point. My comment doesn't have anything to do with his personal finances....except for the fact that he's paid to sell the product he just wrote his 'unbiased' glowing review for, and the fact that if you look at his profile he's got at least one conversation on there trying to get someone to buy from him at work. 

Might give that a think before you take his word that it sounds better than both the Axe (the XL+ or whichever one they're on now) and the Kemper. 

For the record, if you go back and look at my post I didn't say anything derogatory, I just wanted to know where the review was coming from; random guy that got to play one or someone that sells them. I like to know where the reviews I read are coming from.


----------



## Kristianx510

steinmetzify said:


> Uh...that wasn't the point. My comment doesn't have anything to do with his personal finances....except for the fact that he's paid to sell the product he just wrote his 'unbiased' glowing review for, and the fact that if you look at his profile he's got at least one conversation on there trying to get someone to buy from him at work.
> 
> Might give that a think before you take his word that it sounds better than both the Axe (the XL+ or whichever one they're on now) and the Kemper.
> 
> For the record, if you go back and look at my post I didn't say anything derogatory, I just wanted to know where the review was coming from; random guy that got to play one or someone that sells them. I like to know where the reviews I read are coming from.




I mean, Guitar Center sells Kempers also.. Which are more expensive. Meaning I would make more money if I sold those. Yet I'm still talking highly about the Helix and even saying it's better than a Kemper.


----------



## metal_sam14

Well those videos sealed it for me, it sounds amazing and the functionality/user friendlyness is exactly what i'm after in a unit. I have put my Kemper on the market, dont get me wrong I love the Kemper but the Helix will replace so many things for me at an incredible price point. Colour me excited!


----------



## Sumsar

Will it sound better than my old Floor Pod Plus?

Anyway since I haven't been into line 6 products since the Floor pod: Does Line6 usually just add on more amps / effects with software updates, or do you have to buy those as they come out?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sumsar said:


> Will it sound better than my old Floor Pod Plus?



That's like asking if a Mesa Mark 5 sounds better than a '60s Fender Solid State. 

They've tended to do both. For the POD HD, they added some new amps for free, but sold amp packs as well. I've heard they're trying to ditch the paid amp packs thing for Helix. Lets hope they stick to that.


----------



## Lain

Kristianx510 said:


> I mean, Guitar Center sells Kempers also.. Which are more expensive. Meaning I would make more money if I sold those. Yet I'm still talking highly about the Helix and even saying it's better than a Kemper.


Yeah but if you hype both it will inevitably result in higher sales.
Not saying that's your motivation but i can see where steinmetzify is coming from.
That's why i take the Andertons videos with a grain of salt. I wouldn't even call them reviews really.


----------



## John_Strychnine

steinmetzify said:


> Uh...that wasn't the point. My comment doesn't have anything to do with his personal finances....except for the fact that he's paid to sell the product he just wrote his 'unbiased' glowing review for, and the fact that if you look at his profile he's got at least one conversation on there trying to get someone to buy from him at work.
> 
> Might give that a think before you take his word that it sounds better than both the Axe (the XL+ or whichever one they're on now) and the Kemper.
> 
> For the record, if you go back and look at my post I didn't say anything derogatory, I just wanted to know where the review was coming from; random guy that got to play one or someone that sells them. I like to know where the reviews I read are coming from.



For someone that worked in a guitar store for years, I would always tell people my personal opinion of a product. I remember selling a PRS 312 to a guy that was doing a band with Adrian from COF on drums. I specificially told him that I thought the guitar was overpriced and he could get something way more playable that sounded just as good for half the price. He still bought it and it was over £3000. and this was at a time where I got commission on my sales.

Believe it or not, I've met Alot of people like this along the way, conscience does get the best of you.

That being said, I think it's hard to really say that the andertons video didn't sound good. The 5150 model sounded fantastic..


----------



## mongey

I just hope everyone cares as much about playing music as they do debating the virtues of whatever brand.


----------



## Dead-Pan

I can't wait for proof that the Helix sounds better than the Axe or Kemper as I have listened to every sample and none comes close.


----------



## Lain




----------



## Steinmetzify

Kristianx510 said:


> I mean, Guitar Center sells Kempers also.. Which are more expensive. Meaning I would make more money if I sold those. Yet I'm still talking highly about the Helix and even saying it's better than a Kemper.



I hear you man, and I appreciate the review...no offense was intended, believe me. I just like to know where the reviews I read are coming from. 

Found out recently that a couple guys that most of us know that have been hyping certain brands and driving up prices are running a business as 'marketing consultants' using social media....irked me a bit. It's one thing to be up front about it, and quite another to be all 'ZOMG BESTGUITARZEVERYOUSHOUKDGETTWOANDBUYMINEASWELL!!!!!!' and no one knows what you're doing....everyone just sees you go thru a ton of guitars and thinks you really love the brands you're pimping. Can't imagine how many guys got suckered by those two and bought completely average guitars thinking they were the best thing ever. 

I'd really like for this thing to come close, be equal to or surpass the Axe and Kemper....digital modeling is a competitive business and that competition only benefits us as users and eventual customers. 

All of that said, I'll stay out of this thread since it appears that some people have already made up their minds despite never having seen one, let alone played it, and I don't want to bust on anyone's dreams.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch




----------



## Alex Kenivel

I really like what I heard in the andertons demo. Me personally being "sold" as I previously said, was in the context of it sounding better than a Pod HD, which I currently own. Other than that I don't really care how it compares to an Axe or Kemper. 

I'm also not going to buy one as soon as I get the chance. I think I'll wait about a year or so, since I'm pretty wet behind the ears with the Pod I own and I'm moderately happy with it. After the HX has been around, gigged, demoed all over YT, reviewed by the average, unbiased musician, and maybe when it's proven that L6 will provide free updates and gives people what they ask for, I'll snag one hopefully on sale somewhere, sometime. 

I'm not in a hurry.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

IMHO, Rob Chapman & co are not crooks, like them or not, they're not going to simply make something sound utterly and falsely better than it actually is to make more money. Maybe he could be a little biased, or a little forgiving on certain shortcomings, but I don't think they are willing to compromise their store's rep for just one product.

The Helix sounds great in that review, but I'll wait till I try one. This is definitely a much better demo than the ones were put out by Line 6 or SW for metal tones.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

There actually are some reviews (such as the first cab clone review) where they do say that the product they're demoing sucks

But here's the thing - they're not gonna demo a product they don't like, because A - why would we watch a video of them just ....ting all over it and B - if it was a product from a brand that they carry, there's a very good chance that the brand would pull their products from their shelves. That's why you always see positive reviews, especially from a business - it's in their interest to NOT review stuff they don't like, because it could potentially mean they could lose product to sell.

Not seeing a review of a product that's been out for a while is more telling than seeing a few good reviews and a few bad reviews.


----------



## bloc

The Helix thread on the Fractal forum is just ugh

Sooooooooo much denial lol


----------



## MASS DEFECT

bloc said:


> The Helix thread on the Fractal forum is just ugh
> 
> Sooooooooo much denial lol



yeah. it is like they are hearing a different thing to what we are hearing (and liking) in this forum. they are just so negative.

to be quite honest, the demos have sounded stellar so far. the ones that have been lacking like the early "metal" demos, im sure it's just the fault of whoever dialed it in and not the machine. and im not comparing it to the axe or kemper either. it just sounds good on its own.


----------



## big_aug

Yea, the Axe probably sounds "better" but its freaking like $3000+ if you get the foot controller too. Normal people can't drop three grand on this ..... $1500 w/ a discount on sale is attainable for a lot of people. 

I'm just a home player. I used to have an HD500. Those were the best couple years I ever had playing guitar. I'm so excited to have another unit like that. I'm excited to see what people do with all the capabilities.


----------



## Matyrker

big_aug said:


> Yea, the Axe probably sounds "better" but its freaking like $3000+ if you get the foot controller too. Normal people can't drop three grand on this ..... $1500 w/ a discount on sale is attainable for a lot of people.
> 
> I'm just a home player. I used to have an HD500. Those were the best couple years I ever had playing guitar. I'm so excited to have another unit like that. I'm excited to see what people do with all the capabilities.



Agreed. No trying to decide if I want the floor model or rack mount!


----------



## SSK0909

I really want to try this for myself, because every video i've seen so far makes it sound only slightly better than the POD HD, but still miles away from the Kemper and Axe II.

Especially the low end sounds waaay to "mushy" and "smooth". It's like there's this weird compression going on that completely kills the dynamics in the lower register.

No doubt some people will be able to make stellar tones on these, people have been able to do that since the Pod XT. Now a days it's not a question about whether or not a modeller can produce a useable tone, it's about how easy they are to dial in, and I just can't se that weird low end going away without some editing tricks that have to be learned through hours of tweaking. 
I strongly doubt this will get you the tone and feel of a real amp in under 5 minutes. But I could be wrong  Everything is speculation until real users starts playing around with these units.


----------



## Mordacain

Lain said:


> Yeah but if you hype both it will inevitably result in higher sales.
> Not saying that's your motivation but i can see where steinmetzify is coming from.
> That's why i take the Andertons videos with a grain of salt. I wouldn't even call them reviews really.



Certainly take any review with a grain of salt but the Andertons cats don't really shy too far from giving an honest (if measured) opinion about the gear they review. The cab clone not withstanding I don't think they've ever "lied" about a product. 

Regardless of whatever they've done I think the Helix sounds amazing in the Andertons videos and from what I know of Chappers, he's not exactly a digital wiz so I doubt there is any real post-processing that someone here couldn't do better. My point in saying that is that if it sounds that good in the Anderton's videos than I can imagine amazing results from those that can really pull a deep-dive on the unit.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

I have high hopes for the unit, but I'm not gonna vouch for (or fight over) its sound quality or capabilities because I haven't even been in the same room as one yet. The thing could very well rival an Axe FX unit, but who knows yet? Fractal isn't infallible. A thought stolen from another forum's thread:

An Axe FX/Kemper sounds bad: user is most definitely at fault
Line 6 Helix sounds bad: Line 6's fault


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

Captain Butterscotch said:


> An Axe FX/Kemper sounds bad: user is most definitely at fault
> Line 6 Helix sounds bad: Line 6's fault



...and big part of the later ones couldn't get a decent tone with either of units.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Captain Butterscotch said:


> An Axe FX/Kemper sounds bad: user is most definitely at fault
> Line 6 Helix sounds bad: Line 6's fault




I'm going to be that guy...

Line 6 is the most popular modeling company out there. They have a WAY bigger market share than Fractal, Kemper, or Studio Devil. So, naturally, the most popular guys get all the hate. 

I'm also hoping this does good. Main reason is that if the Helix sells well and the reviews are good, then hopefully Line 6 will try to include several of these features, such as the IR loading and new screen, into the next POD series. I want them to realize that good features, sounds, and innovation sells, not gimmicks.


----------



## Vrollin

Ok so I'm confused about modellers and all the jargon that goes with them. I see this has a small amount of amps, not many in the high gain territory either, will this be able to be loaded with more amps in the future? Or is this an unknown at this stage?


----------



## ryanscott6

If I had to guess, Line 6 will probably sell model packs in the future, although for the price of the Helix, I would think they'd be providing free models instead.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Vrollin said:


> Ok so I'm confused about modellers and all the jargon that goes with them. I see this has a small amount of amps, not many in the high gain territory either, will this be able to be loaded with more amps in the future? Or is this an unknown at this stage?



Going by their products in the past the answer is: probably. I haven't seen any confirmation yet but I definitely wouldn't be surprised. We've yet to hear if they're going to be free updates or paid.


----------



## Vrollin

Hmmm, I was getting pretty geed up about helix, but a low number of amp models and what seems to be sfa in the way of effects models is making me second guess it....


----------



## mikah912

Really, guys?

I want more new/contemporary amps (E.g. Archon or 5150 III), but 35 guitar amps and 7 bass amps is not a small number of amps. It's just not.

How many studios that do metal have more than a 5150, Dual Rec, maybe a JCM800 and/or a Soldano and perhaps one other high gain head on hand? Those are all in the launch lineup, along with a Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, plus 3 high gain Line 6 originals and an ENGL Fireball. Moreover, you can run up to four simultaneously or run them with multiple IRs panned L/R. That's a lot of versatility for metal. Keith Merrow's Kemper patch is pretty much just a 5150, isn't it? Periphery are using 5150 amp models as the basis for all of their latest Axe-Fx patches, despite all of the high gain amp models Axe-Fx offers. That says something. 

Ola Englund and Devin Townsend's core amp tones have pretty much been tweaked Recto sounds. Jerry Cantrell has gotten great results for AIC with Uberschalls before he moved to Friedman amps. Countless other records and artists used all of these too. You can load your own IRs. It's not a crappy or limiting amp lineup. Especially if they've truly gotten accurate snapshots of the amps with this new engine.

Maybe lacking in "new" amps if you've had a loaded 500x with all of the expansion packs. But on its own merits....quite capable. 

And of course new models are on the way! Line 6 has put years of development into this new HX engine. The only way to recoup that R&D investment is to reuse it in various products. They will add more amp and FX models to add value as well. They've done it with every generation of product. Helix Incorporated a bazillion IdeaScale suggestions and some people never thought of. Well, before launch, the top requests for Helix are all requests for more amp models. 

Heck, you could pick up an Axe-Fx Ultra used for $1k or less along with a Helix and have an Inception-esque mind blowing rig for the price of a new Axe-fx IIXL WITHOUT the foot controller.

I mean, come on!


----------



## Vrollin

Ok, lets get right down to basics for some of us, whats an IR? is that like loading a new amp model?


----------



## mikah912

Vrollin said:


> Ok, lets get right down to basics for some of us, whats an IR? is that like loading a new amp model?



It's basically a "profile" of a Poweramp, cabinet speaker and microphone recording it. You can shoot it with a blend of mics, and use neutral solid state Poweramp to make it more transparent.

But it's every thing that determines recorded guitar tone aside from the amp head itself.


----------



## Vrollin

ahh yup, cheers! Potentially sold my RGA72, so might be adding that to the helix fund... Bloody things are $2300 in Australia and I just preordered a DD500 the other week....


----------



## SSK0909

mikah912 said:


> Really, guys?
> 
> I want more new/contemporary amps (E.g. Archon or 5150 III), but 35 guitar amps and 7 bass amps is not a small number of amps. It's just not.
> 
> How many studios that do metal have more than a 5150, Dual Rec, maybe a JCM800 and/or a Soldano and perhaps one other high gain head on hand? Those are all in the launch lineup, along with a Bogner Shiva and Uberschall, plus 3 high gain Line 6 originals and an ENGL Fireball. Moreover, you can run up to four simultaneously or run them with multiple IRs panned L/R. That's a lot of versatility for metal. Keith Merrow's Kemper patch is pretty much just a 5150, isn't it? Periphery are using 5150 amp models as the basis for all of their latest Axe-Fx patches, despite all of the high gain amp models Axe-Fx offers. That says something.
> 
> Ola Englund and Devin Townsend's core amp tones have pretty much been tweaked Recto sounds. Jerry Cantrell has gotten great results for AIC with Uberschalls before he moved to Friedman amps. Countless other records and artists used all of these too. You can load your own IRs. It's not a crappy or limiting amp lineup. Especially if they've truly gotten accurate snapshots of the amps with this new engine.
> 
> Maybe lacking in "new" amps if you've had a loaded 500x with all of the expansion packs. But on its own merits....quite capable.
> 
> And of course new models are on the way! Line 6 has put years of development into this new HX engine. The only way to recoup that R&D investment is to reuse it in various products. They will add more amp and FX models to add value as well. They've done it with every generation of product. Helix Incorporated a bazillion IdeaScale suggestions and some people never thought of. Well, before launch, the top requests for Helix are all requests for more amp models.
> 
> Heck, you could pick up an Axe-Fx Ultra used for $1k or less along with a Helix and have an Inception-esque mind blowing rig for the price of a new Axe-fx IIXL WITHOUT the foot controller.
> 
> I mean, come on!



People always want more. The Axe-Fx II has friggin 223 amp models, and the wish list forum is still loaded with "want amp x" threads 

I agree that the Helix has enough amp models, but the point is that it's a minscule ammount compared to the competetition, and Line 6 has always charged for more amp packs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

SSK0909 said:


> People always want more. The Axe-Fx II has friggin 223 amp models, and the wish list forum is still loaded with "want amp x" threads
> 
> I agree that the Helix has enough amp models, but the point is that it's a minscule ammount compared to the competetition, and Line 6 has always charged for more amp packs.



That 223 is so misleading. I mean 9 of them are just super slight variations on the Plexi, and almost twice that number if you count the derivatives. Heck, if you remove the Marshall mods that 223 is almost cut in half.


----------



## SSK0909

MaxOfMetal said:


> That 223 is so misleading. I mean 9 of them are just super slight variations on the Plexi, and almost twice that number if you count the derivatives. Heck, if you remove the Marshall mods that 223 is almost cut in half.



Well... take away Marshall mod's and you remove almost half of real life amps as well


----------



## MaxOfMetal

SSK0909 said:


> Well... take away Marshall mod's and you remove almost half of real life amps as well



Probably more than half.


----------



## mikah912

SSK0909 said:


> People always want more. The Axe-Fx II has friggin 223 amp models, and the wish list forum is still loaded with "want amp x" threads
> 
> I agree that the Helix has enough amp models, but the point is that it's a minscule ammount compared to the competetition, and Line 6 has always charged for more amp packs.



No, _they haven't_ always. The SLO Clean/Crunch/Lead channels were FREE add-ons to the HD series. So was the Line 6 Epic, Doom, and Elektrik models. So was the Plexi Bright/Normal. 

Will they charge for Helix packs? No one can say for sure, but I think the HD series is a good predictor: They will likely throw in new amp models here and there with the initial firmware releases. Once those hurdles are cleared and major bugs are pinned down, they'll concentrate on opening new revenue streams via some paid content. 

And I'm not even saying it has "enough" models. While I think it has enough to suffice for most situations, competitively (as in spec sheet to spec sheet) there are some gaps. There are some biggies the competition has (e.g. Friedman BE-100, EVH 5153, Dumble) that aren't in the lineup combined with some inexplicable omissions that Line 6 already has in their amp collection and has profiled before (e.g. Diezel VH-4, Diezel Herbert, Cornford MK II, Marshall JMP-1). 

It'd be nice to get a JVM in there too, preferably the Satriani model.


----------



## RevelGTR

I think there's probably a little bit of denial on both sides. The Axe FX and Kemper people (of which I am one) probably don't want to believe that a $1500 Line 6 modeller could even come close to the high dollar ones. On the other hand, the people who can't/don't want to afford the Axe or Kemper are likely going to get butthurt about those processors still being worth the extra cash over a Helix.


----------



## Axayacatl

WSchaferJR said:


> I think there's probably a little bit of denial on both sides. The Axe FX and Kemper people (of which I am one) probably don't want to believe that a $1500 Line 6 modeller could even come close to the high dollar ones. On the other hand, the people who can't/don't want to afford the Axe or Kemper are likely going to get butthurt about those processors still being worth the extra cash over a Helix.




Exactly. Which is why Line 6 should have probably cut the knot earlier and just released tons of samples and organized literature instead of pretending they are Apple. 

If the amp modeling is good then I'm eager for them to release more man-months worth of amp models.

If the modeling is not good then I don't care either way.

If it sounds like in Chapper's video then I'm curious about the Helix. If it sounds like in the other videos then not so much.

People care about the Axe having 223 models because the modeling is detailed enough so that slight variations on Plexis are discernible to the user who is in the right setting or genre and/or has the mindset to pay attention. 

Line 6 seems to be making an important step in that direction. Customers win. People who need to justify a purchase always lose.


----------



## mikah912

WSchaferJR said:


> I think there's probably a little bit of denial on both sides. The Axe FX and Kemper people (of which I am one) probably don't want to believe that a $1500 Line 6 modeller could even come close to the high dollar ones. On the other hand, the people who can't/don't want to afford the Axe or Kemper are likely going to get butthurt about those processors still being worth the extra cash over a Helix.



I think they are all worth their respective asking prices. If you want the ultimate in a palette of FX and amp tones and tweakability...Axe-FX is it. And it is priced accordingly. If you want the ultimate in amp modeling detail and - literally - infinite amp tone options...Kemper is it. If you want reduced (but still high quality) tone and FX options, but in an all-in-one super durable foot controller with an amazing display and UI, I/O out the wazoo, and functionality as a controller AND reamper for your DAW....nothing touches Helix.

All worth their current prices. Each does something better than the other two. There's nothing "equivalent" or "better" about any of them. They are all different creatures.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I really would like more high gain amps. Right now all the amps and effects are just the same as the Pod HD series. It would have been cool if they remodeled their Big Bottom amp! Hopefully they add more FX as well. I hope they have new firmware upgrades that are free like the Kemper and Axe FX. I'm willing to bet they will have model packs that are not free. I really am interested in buying the Helix though. Hopefully there will be good modern high gain sounds soon. I'm waiting for a demo from Ola, Fluff and Kieth Merrow! 

Also, why is there no expression pedal on the Helix controller for the rack mount unit?


----------



## big_aug

I'm perfectly fine paying for amp model packs. If it sounds great, I doubt anyone will have a problem. I'd even be fine with a pure ala carte system where we could purchase single amps, cabs, effects, etc.


----------



## The Reverend

One of the things I think tends to go unmentioned more often than not with digital modelers is the ease with which you can dial in tones. I remember when I got my first one, a POD XT, and couldn't match at all any of the tones I saw people getting on Youtube. Tweaking patches is a skill not unlike learning to use a DAW. I've played pretty extensively on a friend's Axe-Fx Ultra, and aside from the stuff he'd made (or more likely just downloaded), I didn't find a lot of the pre-made patches that inspiring. 

Basically, I said all that to say that I think the UI will ultimately make the Helix more popular just because it makes it so much more simpler to dial things in. Sure, the serious metal guitarist won't be immediately wowed by the factory patches, but if you can get to a tone you like quicker, and start playing faster, I think word of mouth will make this a serious contender. Those of us who use digital modelers know far too well how often we sit down to play guitar and instead spend hours tweaking patches.


----------



## lewis

one thing Ive learned since I was one of those "Why are these tones sounding nothing like the reference demo" guys, is a Mix changes everything. Guitar tones by themselves sound utter [email protected] Even in a mix with no bass guitar they sound a kerjillion times better.

This week Ive used Pod Farm 2.5 for a demo for my band, and its come out brilliantly thus far and doesnt contain bass guitars. Granted Ive used 3rd party Irs and power amp sims with Pod Farm amp models.


----------



## cyb

I wasn't really blown away by how the Helix sounded in the Chappers vid, but the same thing happened with their Kemper vid. It sounded pretty bad in that video imo but once I tried the Kemper in person I was very impressed by how good it sounded.


----------



## slothrop

Do we know if an HD500 could be used as a floor controller for a rack mount Helix? Might as well use the HD for something if that's possible.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

It could be, but you miss out on the scribble strips and capacitive footswitches


----------



## Vrollin

One guitar down, another to go and ill be putting an order down for one of these!


----------



## piggins411

Does anyone know anything about looping? I know it has the loop block but can it do all the things the HD500 can do?


----------



## wakjob

cyb said:


> I wasn't really blown away by how the Helix sounded in the Chappers vid, but the same thing happened with their Kemper vid. It sounded pretty bad in that video imo but once I tried the Kemper in person I was very impressed by how good it sounded.



Agreed. That direct (IR's?) sound was pretty bad.

Depressing after all the hype and bragging they were doing about how good the new the cabsims are.

Still though, I don't make assumptions about these kinds of things just going on YT videos anymore. I've been burned by great gear demos, and have been pleasantly surprised by lesser, not so good sounding ones when I play something in person.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The thing about Chappers videos is if the gear they demo sounds meh, they may end up sounding pretty damn good in person. I was never impressed by their tones. They make good amps like the Marshall JVM and Laney Ironheart sound pretty bad.

Someone brought up the Kemper video as well. They made that sound pretty bad.


----------



## wakjob

^
Yes. I actually like those two goofballs. But someone with sound engineering savvy needs to help them out with the audio quality of their gear demos.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I really really want it to sound good. I can't wait until it comes out because I really want to want to buy it!


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

wakjob said:


> Agreed. That direct (IR's?) sound was pretty bad.
> 
> Depressing after all the hype and bragging they were doing about how good the new the cabsims are.



Don't forget tho - they are giving the ability to load your own IRs into the Helix, so if the cabs are still an issue like they were with the HD series, then you can just load your own in


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Sounds pretty nifty here. Some high gain amp tones this time around 6:00.


----------



## bloc

Omg they got the same player from the Chapman video YES


----------



## Axayacatl

bloc said:


> Omg they got the same player from the Chapman video YES



Yeah they did I mean I told them to. 



Axayacatl said:


> Line 6, take a man-months worth of a budget and sit this bad ass Line 6 representative down with both a Helix and a video production team and start selling me some freakin' amp dynamics!!!




Line 6 pls send all job offers to PM only thanks.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Sounds pretty nifty here. Some high gain amp tones this time around 6:00.




hope he a/b'd that soldano behind him with the soldano models in the helix. would be rad!


----------



## Lrrrr

MF allowed me to apply 15% Labor Day savings over the phone! They also informed me that I'm high enough on the list that I should be included in the first batch on 9/25 (next goes out 10/06)!


----------



## elkinz

MASS DEFECT said:


> hope he a/b'd that soldano behind him with the soldano models in the helix. would be rad!



holy .... that sounded amazing! Night and day compared to HD500.  maybe ill splash out and be naughty and finance one ahha


----------



## Vrollin

Might be the wrong place to ask such a specific thing, but I am looking to be able to change amp channels on my Randall RD100 with the helix. Now given the Helix only has the one TRS socket for channel switching I can only change two channels which is fine.
The plan is to make an adaptor with the randall 6 pin din cable and only utilise 3 of the pins, one common, one for clean channel, and one for channel 3. The supplied footswitch is non latching how ever when you press each button some vodoo occurs and the led for that button comes on only.
So making the adaptor is the easy part, my concern is that being it normally has current for the leds to light up would that be unsafe to use with the helix? Am I going to feed current into the helix that it wont like?
Or I guess an easier question might be on amps that only have say a two button footswitch is it common for them to have an led to indicate channel using a trs style jack to plug into the amp? If this was the case then we could assume line 6 made it to accept a TRS connection from amps that use such footswitches....


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Definitely ask in the Helix thread on TGP because it's stupidly active with several L6 reps on there. I think they said screw it about the Vendor Account thing on here.


----------



## Santuzzo

I'm very late to this party, I remember having read something about this new L6 unit some while ago, but kinda forgot about it. 
A friend sent me a link and I just started watching that demo clip Paul Hindmarsh did, and I am VERY impressed, it sounds great.
Paul Hindmarsh is also one hell of a great guitar player 

Now I gotta go back and read through all the pages of this thread


----------



## Electric Wizard

Ugh, really tempted to pick one up with the Labor Day pricing, but all my past frustration with Line 6 stuff is keeping me from picking up the phone. The demos sound good, I just wish they'd have a modern metal clip that wasn't in a mix.


----------



## marcwormjim

As of 2015, what would win me over is a demo of Eric Johnson or Holdsworth patches where you can A/B between their clean and lead tones within one patch. You could also achieve it by having dedicated processing for Delay and Reverb trails between patch-changes, but I don't think anyone's done that since Digitech's GSP101. The idea is that the flexibility shows off the hardware, and the accuracy of modeled benchmark guitar tones shows off the software.


----------



## Vrollin

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Definitely ask in the Helix thread on TGP because it's stupidly active with several L6 reps on there. I think they said screw it about the Vendor Account thing on here.



What's TGP?


----------



## Santuzzo

Vrollin said:


> What's TGP?



http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Vrollin said:


> What's TGP?



The Gear Page. 

Even though the forum is usually the butt end of gear snob jokes, the Line 6 community there is pretty big and thriving. Their Helix thread is 10x bigger than ours. No hyperbole. 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?forums/digital-modeling-gear.53/


----------



## elkinz

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Their Helix thread is 10x bigger than ours. No hyperbole.


 
oh my god you weren't kidding!!


----------



## bloc

Just keep away from the Helix thread on the Fractal forums


----------



## ryanscott6

Can't wait for this thing to ship. Anyone heard anything yet on arrival date?


----------



## Vrollin

ryanscott6 said:


> Can't wait for this thing to ship. Anyone heard anything yet on arrival date?



Last week of September they're meant to start shipping I've read....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Musiciansfriend has them shipping out on the 28th.


----------



## mikah912

While we wait, wait and wait, I invite you all to vote up my thread on Line 6 Ideascale for more and more varied high gain amps:

Line 6 Ideas - by IdeaScale

It's gotten a lot of attention already, but could use additional lovin' to kick it up over the "Add More Boutique Amps" thread which is currently the top Helix request there.


----------



## elkinz

I hope the helix ends up having a "heli-xchange" of sorts like the the axefx and kemper and continual updates. Like with axefx its always being improved upon and patched to have more/sound better etc ~ so hopefully line 6 does the same so the product is even *more* of a long term investment! 

Im a big fan of what iv seen and heard so far, so im sure line 6 will deliver


----------



## Ericjutsu

I'm just really disappointed that there is no reverse delay or Dimension chorus. Dimension chorus is one of my go to effects. Sucks I have to keep my Pod HD500 around just for those two things. I could always buy a delay unit with reverse but there is no replacing the Dimension chorus without spending a .... load of money. Also sucks that there are no new reverbs. You'd think they would remodel reverb effects for the Helix...


----------



## lewis

Ericjutsu said:


> I'm just really disappointed that there is no reverse delay or Dimension chorus. Dimension chorus is one of my go to effects. Sucks I have to keep my Pod HD500 around just for those two things. I could always buy a delay unit with reverse but there is no replacing the Dimension chorus without spending a .... load of money. Also sucks that there are no new reverbs. You'd think they would remodel reverb effects for the Helix...



Tbh though a HD500 controlling a Helix Rack plus using effects the Helix doesnt have etc sounds an unreal setup mate.


----------



## ryanscott6

Sweetwater says these are pushed back to October but I don't really think they know much more than the rest of us at this point.


----------



## big_aug

ryanscott6 said:


> Sweetwater says these are pushed back to October but I don't really think they know much more than the rest of us at this point.



Yea, probably not. I think there is going to be a delay in shipping. Line 6 has always said Helix would ship "by the end of summer.". That's less than two weeks away. If they were really shipping in less that two weeks, I think we'd be getting something more concrete. I also don't think retailers would be pushing back their shipping dates. So they might not know much, but I bet they know they aren't getting the Helix in September. 

I can deal with it as I've already waited a couple months


----------



## Vrollin

Don't say these things!!!


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Line 6 doesn't even know the shipping date so whatever Sweetwater and other retailers are saying is just to placate people.


----------



## Wookieslayer

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Line 6 doesn't even know the shipping date so whatever Sweetwater and other retailers are saying is just to placate people.



tis true


----------



## Ericjutsu

lewis said:


> Tbh though a HD500 controlling a Helix Rack plus using effects the Helix doesnt have etc sounds an unreal setup mate.


Yeah but I plan on getting the floor pedal version because I want the foot controller and I dont want to wait even linger for the rack version. I guess I can always try and find space for the pod and helix and get an epic pedal board going on


----------



## lewis

Ericjutsu said:


> Yeah but I plan on getting the floor pedal version because I want the foot controller and I dont want to wait even linger for the rack version. I guess I can always try and find space for the pod and helix and get an *epic pedal board going on*



hell yeah. Do it!!!  all in 1 custom flight case pedal board would be amazing. Compact too


----------



## Vrollin

mikah912 said:


> While we wait, wait and wait, I invite you all to vote up my thread on Line 6 Ideascale for more and more varied high gain amps:
> 
> Line 6 Ideas - by IdeaScale
> 
> It's gotten a lot of attention already, but could use additional lovin' to kick it up over the "Add More Boutique Amps" thread which is currently the top Helix request there.



voted


----------



## Great Satan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Gear Page.
> 
> Even though the forum is usually the butt end of gear snob jokes



I used to post over there, but the new board layout hurts my eyes (too spaced out now, not conducive to the speed-reading i'm used to on more default forum settings).

For me its a big toss up between this and the axefx floor-board, money's not particularly an issue as it all comes down to sound quality (feature-wise helix is ahead of the game with fx and such, but i always forwent fx on the pod in favor of dialing in a better basic tone).


----------



## Vrollin

Confirmed delayed in Australia


----------



## mikah912

That's odd. The Line 6 rep at The Gear Page just said all of the units for Europe/abroad landed at the Amsterdam distribution center a few days ago.


----------



## slapnutz

Vrollin said:


> Confirmed delayed in Australia



Went to one of our bigger retailers here in NZ today. Being told mid to late October for us. Listing will be around NZ$2800.

Man that 2nd hand Tri-Axis I saw a while back is looking more and more attractive.


----------



## Vrollin

mikah912 said:


> That's odd. The Line 6 rep at The Gear Page just said all of the units for Europe/abroad landed at the Amsterdam distribution center a few days ago.



Yeah the store Im getting mine from received an email saying it was going to be delayed, so they passed the info onto me. Fingers crossed we are talking days and not weeks...


----------



## remus1710

new helix video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fduahpgt8I


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

remus1710 said:


> new helix video
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fduahpgt8I



Lemme embed it. 



In glorious 240p!


----------



## big_aug

I really need this to arrive soon. And I need someone to buy my amps


----------



## Kristianx510

My store's systems say the helix is delayed until the 13th of next month. Pretty bummed.


----------



## Vrollin

big_aug said:


> I really need this to arrive soon. And I need someone to buy my amps



Mate, I way pre-empted and sold nearly all my pedals a month ago for pre order of this, I def need this to ship already!


----------



## Ericjutsu

they need to hurry up and ship it before I cave and just buy a Kemper!


----------



## Ps43203

Has anyone been able to get a hold of theirs yet? I hope it really competes with the axe-fx and Kemper. I will not buy one, until I have heard the whole palette, due to having been fooled by Line 6 before. I so hope it delivers, the amp models seems all too familiar, even though I know they have been totally re-coded, etc. We shall see.


----------



## Ericjutsu

yeah kinda lame they just re did the ones already in the HD series. I would have liked to see more amps and especially effects. No reverse delay or dimension chorus?! I'm assuming they will have expansion packs.. I really am looking forward to hearing metal demos by competent mixers.


----------



## PBGas

I ended up ordering the Helix Rack and Control today. I sold my amp, cab and several of my pedals over the past week. A friend made me a serious offer on everything and I went with it. It was tough to do because I reallly loved my setup. However, I had a chance to hear this unit close up and absolutely loved it.

Going to place an order for the Friedman ASM-12 next week as well.


----------



## Ericjutsu

The rack isnt coming until early December


----------



## lewis

Ericjutsu said:


> yeah kinda lame they just re did the ones already in the HD series. I would have liked to see more amps and especially effects. No reverse delay or dimension chorus?! I'm assuming they will have expansion packs.. I really am looking forward to hearing metal demos by competent mixers.



The thing is, the Helix is supposed to be in its own league. An entirely new product that is flagship that doesnt replace anything in their range. I.e the Pod HDs etc. Yet....the Amp modelling in the Helix is basically as you say redone Pod stuff. Kinda contradictory imo.

Plus as you say the lack of effects probably means you have to consider them as 2 separate products (when you arguably shouldn't have to at these prices) anyhow just so you can use the 2 together to get back those effects missing on the Helix.


----------



## Santuzzo

the more Helix-reviews/demo's I watch the more I want one.....


----------



## PBGas

Ericjutsu said:


> The rack isnt coming until early December



Not even worried about that. It will get here when it gets here. I was expecting around Christmas, so no worries.


----------



## Lain

Santuzzo said:


> the more Helix-reviews/demo's I watch the more I want one.....


The more demos i watch the more i wish it would be 1000 bucks cheaper.


----------



## Eddie Loves You

Ericjutsu said:


> yeah kinda lame they just re did the ones already in the HD series. I would have liked to see more amps and especially effects. No reverse delay or dimension chorus?! I'm assuming they will have expansion packs.. I really am looking forward to hearing metal demos by competent mixers.




They used the same physical amps they they already own in their stable, but re-modeled them completely from scratch. Same with effects, except the reverbs and most of the wahs.


----------



## lewis

Eddie Loves You said:


> They used the same physical amps they they already own in their stable, but re-modeled them completely from scratch. Same with effects, except the reverbs and most of the wahs.



Hardly pushing boundaries though really lets be honest. Just yet another re-do of the same batch of Line 6 amps we have always had. Ive been the biggest line 6 guy.

I own
Podfarm 2.5 full package
Line 6 UX1
Line 6 Vetta II HD
Line 6 HD Pro rack
Line 6 HD Bean

So Im not some Line 6 hater or anything. Im just not remotely enamored by this. I mean the thing looks unreal. Super stunning, but isnt any piece of gear in this way all about the sound not the looks. Im just not excited by the same bunch of amps as in my HD Pro just sounding 50% better. Just like my HD Pro sounded 50% better than Pod Farm and so on. 

Still leaning towards the Kemper at this point. Line 6 would have to confirm some add ons for this at a later date that included amps we havent ever had before from them for me to be interested. Archon, Randall stuff (Satan), Orange Dark Terror etc. Just new and different stuff.

Its why for the same price, the Kemper is still better value for money.


----------



## Dead-Pan

Well, I have a Kemper and will shortly have a Helix so I will compare and profile the Helix.


----------



## mikah912

Kemper is not the same price as a Helix, BTW. Sure used ones dip into $1400-1500 occasionally, but used Helices will be much cheaper. 

The HD500x can be found used at 25-40 percent off, and they didn't launch that long ago. $1000-1100 Helices will be available next year no matter how well it's received.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Its why for the same price, the Kemper is still better value for money.



Unless you're like me and whore out on effects a lot.


----------



## Vrollin

mikah912 said:


> Kemper is not the same price as a Helix, BTW. Sure used ones dip into $1400-1500 occasionally, but used Helices will be much cheaper.
> 
> The HD500x can be found used at 25-40 percent off, and they didn't launch that long ago. $1000-1100 Helices will be available next year no matter how well it's received.



Ok....? Yes electronics drop in price the moment they are considered second hand as with everything...


----------



## PBGas

Vrollin said:


> Ok....? Yes electronics drop in price the moment they are considered second hand as with everything...



Up where I am where I am the Kemper is about 300$ more. At least there won't be the nonsense of an "early bird" list for the foot controller.


----------



## meambobbo

In one video they said they've been working on it for 6 years...before the Pod HD launched basically. I think it's a bit suspicious it features basically the exact same amp list. But they do appear to have worked out a lot of issues that plagued the Pod HD. I want it to be good, but so far I have not heard anything that makes me rethink it will be a revamped Pod HD, sound-wise.

That's not to say the Pod HD is bad, just difficult. I really do like the tones I coaxed out of it, and with the expanded cab/mic selection in the Helix, it may require far less effort to get into the really good tone range.

That said, I really have no interest in the unit right now since I bought a Kemper. It does everything I want, is easy to use, and never leaves me GASing as new profiles are added every day. I don't think anything could top it, sound-wise, only match it. If the Helix had many more amps and sounded as good as the Kemper, I'd consider the switch given the price difference. Let's see what happens...


----------



## Ericjutsu

I've been considering getting a Kemper but I think I will miss having the ability to have a dual rig. I like utilizing that for lead tones and FX heavy tones. I'm still tempted though. I could always get a Helix later down the line..


----------



## big_aug

Pretty excited to finally get this. I feel like it'll be pretty solid. I'm completey prepared to send it back though. Hope I dont have to because I have zero interest in a Kemper or Axe. I dont know what else Id get. Nothing else seems to have what the Helix has all in one.


----------



## lewis

meambobbo said:


> In one video they said they've been working on it for 6 years...before the Pod HD launched basically. I think it's a bit suspicious it features basically the exact same amp list. But they do appear to have worked out a lot of issues that plagued the Pod HD. I want it to be good, but so far I have not heard anything that makes me rethink it will be a revamped Pod HD, sound-wise.
> 
> That's not to say the Pod HD is bad, just difficult. I really do like the tones I coaxed out of it, and with the expanded cab/mic selection in the Helix, it may require far less effort to get into the really good tone range.
> 
> That said, I really have no interest in the unit right now since I bought a Kemper. It does everything I want, is easy to use, and never leaves me GASing as new profiles are added every day. I don't think anything could top it, sound-wise, only match it. If the Helix had many more amps and sounded as good as the Kemper, I'd consider the switch given the price difference. Let's see what happens...



thread.

1000% agree. I love my HD Pro but I want my next purchase to be my final stop for tone/features/soundquality/options etc and it seems apparent to me that the Kemper will get me nearer to that "I never need to buy anything again" destination than the Helix will so for the first time ever...... Im guna NOT be a Line 6 guy haha.


----------



## lewis

big_aug said:


> Pretty excited to finally get this. I feel like it'll be pretty solid. I'm completey prepared to send it back though. Hope I dont have to because I have zero interest in a Kemper or Axe. I dont know what else Id get. Nothing else seems to have what the Helix has all in one.



Just out of interest why are you interested in the Helix, but not the Kemper or Axe?


----------



## big_aug

lewis said:


> Just out of interest why are you interested in the Helix, but not the Kemper or Axe?



Basically because I want to buy one thing and be completely done. It will be for practicing, playing, recording. It has all the effects, amps, and cabs I need. It has my looper, expression pedal, and foot controller. It will function as an audio interface. It is small and compact so I won't have a bunch of .... laying all over or taking up space. 

I just want one thing that will do everything, sound really awesome, and be really easy to use.


----------



## lewis

big_aug said:


> Basically *because I want to buy one thing and be completely done*. It will be for practicing, playing, recording. It has all the effects, amps, and cabs I need. It has my looper, expression pedal, and foot controller. It will function as an audio interface. It is small and compact so I won't have a bunch of .... laying all over or taking up space.
> 
> I just want one thing that will do everything, sound really awesome, and be really easy to use.



Funny because Im after doing the same thing and thats why I want a Kemper haha


----------



## Ericjutsu

ahhh I keep thinking about buying a Kemper but I want the Helix really bad too. I can do more with the Helix (ambient style and FX heavy tones) but the Kemper will have all my bread and butter tones covered. LIke I said, I could always buy a Kemper and then early next year buy the Helix...


----------



## Shask

big_aug said:


> Basically because I want to buy one thing and be completely done. It will be for practicing, playing, recording. It has all the effects, amps, and cabs I need. It has my looper, expression pedal, and foot controller. It will function as an audio interface. It is small and compact so I won't have a bunch of .... laying all over or taking up space.
> 
> I just want one thing that will do everything, sound really awesome, and be really easy to use.



That sounds like an Axe-FX to me! Just add controller!


----------



## mikah912

Shask said:


> That sounds like an Axe-FX to me! Just add controller!



LOL. Maybe you missed the "I want ONE thing that does it all" bit. 

Not a rack unit, rack, foot controller, connecting cables between the two, bags/cases for each....."


----------



## Shask

mikah912 said:


> LOL. Maybe you missed the "I want ONE thing that does it all" bit.
> 
> Not a rack unit, rack, foot controller, connecting cables between the two, bags/cases for each....."



No, I saw that. IMO, a rack unit with a controller (1 cable) is much less messy than a floor unit where you will have 5 different cables coming out of it, which go in all different directions....


----------



## mikah912

Shask said:


> No, I saw that. IMO, a rack unit with a controller (1 cable) is much less messy than a floor unit where you will have 5 different cables coming out of it, which go in all different directions....



Still more stuff to carry and setup. The same 5 cables will come out of the back of your rack, with a sixth leading from there to wherever you are on stage.

Oh, and an Axe+MFC rig is double the price of a Helix.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Shask said:


> No, I saw that. IMO, a rack unit with a controller (1 cable) is much less messy than a floor unit where you will have 5 different cables coming out of it, which go in all different directions....



If you're terrible with cable management. 

If you're doing a gig, most of the time these cables will be bunched up, covered and adhered to the ground under gaffer tape, and then go where they need to go.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Shask said:


> No, I saw that. IMO, a rack unit with a controller (1 cable) is much less messy than a floor unit where you will have 5 different cables coming out of it, which go in all different directions....



Depends on the setup. 

When I use my HD500 instead of my Axe-Fx I have just two connections guitar->POD and POD->"whatever is going to make the POD louder". 

When I use my Axe-Fx rig I have guitar->rack, MFC->rack, and rack->"louder machine".


----------



## lewis

My rack setup (Pod HD Pro) and floor controller (Which I managed to retro fit inside a powered pedal board case) is so neat and tidy and weighs barely anything. I dont use any cabs/poweramps. Just go direct to the PA. So a Small 6U rack case and 1 floor controller case. The rack case is internally connected and held together with cable ties and velcro. So I only have to plug in 3 wires.
Foor controller to Pod HD, PA to Pod HD and guitar to input of Pod HD

its so simple.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Helix user manual...

http://line6.com/data/6/0a06439cb91...Owners Manual (REV B) - English ( Rev B ).pdf

Everything looks so...EASY!!!


----------



## Lain

What else would it be? Hard? Impossible?


----------



## Vrollin

Apparently they should be in Australia in a couple weeks, it's finally happening!!


----------



## Ericjutsu

I'm buying the .... out of the Helix


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

Does it have global EQ? It drives me crazy when I have to adjust EQ for each preset every time when I switch PA/rig...

EDIT: Never mind, I checked the manual - it got one!


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Lain said:


> What else would it be? Hard? Impossible?



To be fair, if there's anything Line 6 are good at, it's making User Manuals approachable and clear. Compared to say, a BOSS GT-10, reading a Line 6 Manual is so easy, you may as well start wondering why the book doesn't have bright colours and cardboard pages.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Lain said:


> What else would it be? Hard? Impossible?




Compared to the HD500 manual, this is leaps and bounds clearer and more concise.


----------



## Kristianx510

Well well, look what arrived at my store today..


----------



## Rev2010

Lain said:


> What else would it be? Hard? Impossible?



The POD HD menu system is not the best it could be and the fact that there are three manuals (QuickStart guide, Pilot's Guide, and Advanced guide) doesn't make matters much better. Yes, people can figure it out and get used to it but the whole system could definitely be easier and more straightforward to use which apparently the Helix is. Of course, this could primarily be the result of a bigger/better/higher resolution screen to fit more options under without having to page to different menus. 


Rev.


----------



## DarrellM5

Kristianx510 said:


> Well well, look what arrived at my store today..



Oh yeah!!! They do exist.


----------



## elkinz

god I want one so badly!! Im hoping they'll be in New Zealand in the next month so I can try one! If its as good as its cracking up to be I might have to sell my limbs to get one...


----------



## Elric

mikah912 said:


> LOL. Maybe you missed the "I want ONE thing that does it all" bit.
> 
> Not a rack unit, rack, foot controller, connecting cables between the two, bags/cases for each....."


In that case you want an AX8.  But seriously, the Helix looks cool, too; don't blame anyone for checking it out.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I just preordered one and it should have it in a little more than a week!


----------



## PBGas

lewis said:


> Funny because Im after doing the same thing and thats why I want a Kemper haha



Yup. Unfortunately doesn't do everything. It isn't a self contained interface and doesn't have the ability to record direct via USB like the Axe. Perhaps not important to some but it may save another from having to buy an interface as well. Helix has that capability. I've had a few Kemper's and to be honest with you, I haven't missed them one bit. Great untit but just not for me.


----------



## big_aug

I feel like the Helix is the only "one and done" solution. And its much cheaper than the others.


----------



## Ericjutsu

I just hope they release more amp models and FX. They are missing some important FX (to me anyways) like reverse delay, Dimension Chorus and new reverb algorithms. A looper with quantize would be sweet as well.


----------



## lewis

I am looking forward to the Keith Merrow/Ola Englund/John Browne demos of the Helix to really hear what it can do from a Modern Metal perspective.

Im so done with Blues/Light rock sounds and guitarists being over every demo.


----------



## Santuzzo

lewis said:


> I am looking forward to the Keith Merrow/Ola Englund/John Browne demos of the Helix to really hear what it can do from a Modern Metal perspective.
> 
> Im so done with Blues/Light rock sounds and guitarists being over every demo.



I'm not in the least worried about its Metal tone, IMO the POD HD already got great results there, so I'm sure the Helix will sound great for metal as well.
I think it is harder to achieve good low-gain tones with a modeler and especially tones that 'feel' realistic and react to picking dynamics like a real amp would.


----------



## lewis

Santuzzo said:


> I'm not in the least worried about its Metal tone, IMO the POD HD already got great results there, so I'm sure the Helix will sound great for metal as well.
> I think it is harder to achieve good low-gain tones with a modeler and especially tones that 'feel' realistic and react to picking dynamics like a real amp would.



yeah because all metal guys dont care about Dynamics or real feel..................


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> yeah because all metal guys dont care about Dynamics or real feel..................



That's not what Lars said at all, stop trying to pick a fight. 

Metal guys need to relax, not everything is an attack.


----------



## Santuzzo

Yes, I did not mean to dis metal at all. I love metal myself.
I was only trying to say that in my opinion modelers are usually doing very well with high-gain metal tones whereas low gain tones are harder to get to sound and feel realistic and that is where modelers have a harder time with.
just my two cents.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not what Lars said at all, stop trying to pick a fight.
> 
> Metal guys need to relax, not everything is an attack.



Aye.

Although there's a grain of truth to it - Metal uses more distortion, more distortion means more compression, which means less dynamics. Depending on how you quantify "feel" that could mean less "feel" too. 

Sucks to be a metal dude.


----------



## Shask

GuitarBizarre said:


> Aye.
> 
> Although there's a grain of truth to it - Metal uses more distortion, more distortion means more compression, which means less dynamics. Depending on how you quantify "feel" that could mean less "feel" too.
> 
> Sucks to be a metal dude.



Well....... kinda.

The preamp would be more compressed, but if you run that into a high headroom power amp, you can get amazing dynamics. Look at amps like the Triple Rectifier or VHT Deliverance D120. The preamp might be compressed, but having massive poweramps makes these amps super-dynamic beasts. You can go from a low volume clean to a shaking the walls chunk just from hitting the strings harder.

Metal and "the right" high gain amps are full of dynamics


----------



## shred-o-holic

Shask said:


> Well....... kinda.
> 
> The preamp would be more compressed, but if you run that into a high headroom power amp, you can get amazing dynamics. Look at amps like the Triple Rectifier or VHT Deliverance D120. The preamp might be compressed, but having massive poweramps makes these amps super-dynamic beasts. You can go from a low volume clean to a shaking the walls chunk just from hitting the strings harder.
> 
> Metal and "the right" high gain amps are full of dynamics



You lost me at the VHT Deliverance 120 

But it does not suck to be a Metal dude......especially nowadays


----------



## Shask

shred-o-holic said:


> You lost me at the VHT Deliverance 120
> 
> But it does not suck to be a Metal dude......especially nowadays



Why lose you at VHT? That is one of the most dynamic high gain amps I have ever played. You could accidentally lose an ear if you strum too hard with that amp!


----------



## shred-o-holic

Shask said:


> Why lose you at VHT? That is one of the most dynamic high gain amps I have ever played. You could accidentally lose an ear if you strum too hard with that amp!



I traded a Soldano Avenger for one a few years ago....despised that dry POS.....you must have one... Glad you like it and really that's all that matters. Ironically I love my Randall Thrasher which has some similarity but has a loop and is not quite as dry....


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Shask said:


> Well....... kinda.
> 
> The preamp would be more compressed, but if you run that into a high headroom power amp, you can get amazing dynamics. Look at amps like the Triple Rectifier or VHT Deliverance D120. The preamp might be compressed, but having massive poweramps makes these amps super-dynamic beasts. You can go from a low volume clean to a shaking the walls chunk just from hitting the strings harder.
> 
> Metal and "the right" high gain amps are full of dynamics


I didn't say they were brickwalled to the point of insanity, and you can have either on or off in terms of volume. I said they were more compressed.

I'm gonna use dynamic output here instead of dynamic range, because that's what we're really talking about here - going from 0-11 with no in between is technically more dynamic *range* than going from 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10, but it's still a less dynamic result in the end.

A distorted preamp at mid-gain will have a more dynamic output, than the same preamp running flat-out on the gain with no other settings changed.

Commensurately, assuming the poweramp has enough headrom to handle both types of signal without difficulty, and there's no extra compression added elsewhere, the cleaner signal will always have a more dynamic output as well. 

Now if your poweramp doesn't have that headroom, and clips, that's different, but then you're just getting distortion, and hence compression, in the poweramp, so that's really just limiting your dynamics in another way.


----------



## Lain

I just don't understand the notion that pods and other digital multieffect devices are hard to edit.
PodHD is easy to edit on the unit. The GT-100 is even easier. You can add, remove and change effects in literally a few seconds.


----------



## Shask

shred-o-holic said:


> I traded a Soldano Avenger for one a few years ago....despised that dry POS.....you must have one... Glad you like it and really that's all that matters. Ironically I love my Randall Thrasher which has some similarity but has a loop and is not quite as dry....



No, I had one for awhile, but didn't keep it. The overall dryness and bright treble was something I didn't get along with either. However, the thump and power the amp had behind palm mutes is undeniable. The amp just sounded massive in how deep it sounded.

The Triple Recto has the same sort of thing going on, but I liked the sound better, which is why I still have it


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

Lain said:


> I just don't understand the notion that pods and other digital multieffect devices are hard to edit.
> PodHD is easy to edit on the unit. The GT-100 is even easier. You can add, remove and change effects in literally a few seconds.



Yeah, but it's hard to get really good tones.


----------



## Lain

True.


----------



## Mrcdboston

The Line 6 Helix Live Interactive unboxing TODAY 6 PM Pacific Time https://www.youtube.com/c/ChadBoston/live


----------



## edsped

Lain said:


> I just don't understand the notion that pods and other digital multieffect devices are hard to edit.
> PodHD is easy to edit on the unit. The GT-100 is even easier. You can add, remove and change effects in literally a few seconds.



It's not so much that they're hard, more that they could be way way way easier, quicker, and more intuitive. Like the Helix is.


----------



## ashan79

https://youtu.be/eHn6VhmPdME
i don't understand what the japanese guy is saying.


----------



## big_aug

Mine should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday. Excited to finally try this thing out.


----------



## ThePIGI King

big_aug said:


> Mine should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday. Excited to finally try this thing out.



And you're going to give us all a very, very in-depth review of it. That's not a suggestion either


----------



## Elric

lewis said:


> I am looking forward to the Keith Merrow/Ola Englund/John Browne demos of the Helix to really hear what it can do from a Modern Metal perspective.
> 
> Im so done with Blues/Light rock sounds and guitarists being over every demo.


If you want to know what those will sound like just load any of the existing videos and close your eyes. Seriously, those guys all have such production mad skillz that all their videos sound like "them" not the gear. If I was using Ola's stuff to go buy I'd still have a POD HD. Not a dis... I certainly wish I could make *anything* sound good like that.


----------



## mongey

Elric said:


> If you want to know what those will sound like just load any of the existing videos and close your eyes. Seriously, those guys all have such production mad skillz that all their videos sound like "them" not the gear. If I was using Ola's stuff to go buy I'd still have a POD HD. Not a dis... I certainly wish I could make *anything* sound good like that.



agreed . they aren't demos, they are advertising IMHO

and like you no dis there.. they are super talented at making anything sound great


----------



## Veldar

No vocoder or talkbox


----------



## Vrollin

Mine just shipped out from Better Music in Canberra today, scheduled to arrive by next Wednesday!


----------



## big_aug

Well, I just got mine and put about 2 hours on it. My initial impressions:

1) Very premium look and feel. It's even better in person than you think. The packaging is nice. The unit looks gorgeous. The screen is massive in person. The knobs and buttons all have a nice feel to them. There is satisfaction in the way they feel and respond.

2) The buzzword everyone likes to use is "dynamics." I can say that the amp models all react very differently. It's also possible to get very different sounds by changing your pick attack. You can go from an overdrive to all out full gain by really hitting the strings. It's pretty satisfying to really dig in to your strings. I actually got massively different sounds from just changing picks. 

3) Each model has a LOT of possible sounds. Will you like them? I don't know. I liked a lot and disliked a lot. All from the same amp. I ran through the presets which sounded pretty good. Then I ran through the high gain amps and cabs with nothing else in the preset. Then I ran through them with a OD in front as a boost. Many different sounds from just the amp EQ settings. Throw a boost in front and there are even more.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Can it do modern metal sounds well? Especially low tuned stuff. How would you sau it compares to the other higj end modelers/profiler? What about software amps?


----------



## Dead-Pan

https://soundcloud.com/stackin-mccrackin/stevichelix

12 Foot Ninja I believe.

Not great for me, so far.

I cancelled my preorder as Guitar Center would rather ship to their stores that to those who bought and paid months in advance. 

Kinda glad I did.


----------



## ThePIGI King

big_aug said:


> *Review



So would you say you're overall satisfied with the unit as a whole? Any gripes with it? And finally, was it worth the price to you?


----------



## big_aug

ThePIGI King said:


> So would you say you're overall satisfied with the unit as a whole? Any gripes with it? And finally, was it worth the price to you?



I mean, I only had it for a few hours. It pushes the right buttons initially. I had an HD500 years ago and I liked that. I think this sounds better and is a lot easier to use. I doubt I'll return. I would say most people would be happy and be able to get sounds they like.

I don't really have any gripes now, but I imagine I'll have a few. I haven't gotten to use my monitors with it yet. I was using my nice studio headphones.

I didn't even touch any dual amp stuff. I can't even imagine what some people are going to do with this thing. I bet people are going to get some monstrous sounds. 

One thing that really stuck out was how different my guitars sound through it. I ran a Schecter KM7 with Nazgul/Sentient, a Carvin DC7x with Lithium's, and an RG752wmfx w/ PAF7s and they all sound completely different (I'd freaking hope so lol). I think that was a complaint of previous products like this. 

I don't have a computer right now or I'd do a little noodle on the amp/cab only for the models and record it. Ive only got my phone. I need to get a laptop next instead of ....ing guitars lol

Edit: I'm also reallllly wanting to get a bass to use with this as well. I think it'll be awesome. And its fantastic that two people can play two separate instruments into this thing as well. So many possibilities that I probably won't ever get to use lol


----------



## slapnutz

Dead-Pan said:


> https://soundcloud.com/stackin-mccrackin/stevichelix
> 
> 12 Foot Ninja I believe.
> 
> Not great for me, so far.
> 
> I cancelled my preorder as Guitar Center would rather ship to their stores that to those who bought and paid months in advance.
> 
> Kinda glad I did.



Lol.. you know the best part about that link?.... I let it autoplay and the next track was a AWESOME cover of Mr Bungle's "Quote Unquote" he did. So damn good.

(but yeah the Helix clip was meth)


----------



## Digital Igloo

slapnutz said:


> Lol.. you know the best part about that link?.... I let it autoplay and the next track was a AWESOME cover of Mr Bungle's "Quote Unquote" he did. So damn good.


Ah yes"Travolta." Warner Bros. made them change the title to "Quote Unquote" after the first pressing.


----------



## russmuller

I have to say, the Helix has really caught my interest. I had a Vetta combo about 14 years ago and I really enjoyed it. The only reason I got rid of it was because it intermittently malfunctioned after a very random accident (the back of the amp got caught on my drummer's garage door as it was opening, so the amp got lifted about 4-5 feet and then landed face-first on concrete).

I've got an Axe-FX II and while I sounds great, I hate the UI (even with Axe Edit). I think that Helix is going to be the center of my next rig.


----------



## big_aug

The UI is pretty damn slick. I do have one complaint though. The knob that you use to switch between effects is the same knob you use to move stuff around. A lot of times I want to move an effect and I spin the knob while moving it left or right and it gives me a new effect. When you switch it back, its back to default settings. Maybe there is a way to adjust how the knob works.


----------



## Lain

Hey DI! 

Do you have anything planned with the Helix line in regards to releasing an Helix amp or a smaller pedal boards and stuff like that?


----------



## tjontheroad

Hey guys. I signed up to share with my taste of Helix. 

https://youtu.be/uKa0jF8ahEI

Cheers, 
TJ


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Here is a comparison of Helix and Axe II clips. I think these are Quantum firmware for the Axe II. Stock cabs from both units. 

What do you guys think?

https://soundcloud.com/gasp100

(clips by gasp100)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It's been nearly 15 years...

And Line 6 still can't make realistic stock cabs.

So ....ing glad they introduced an IR loader. 

But I'm listening to the last 2 clips. Why is the L6 in mono while the II is in stereo/


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I dont know why the other one is mono. This would be a better test if both clips are using the same cabs, right? you would get a better idea of the amp model.


----------



## A-Branger

MASS DEFECT said:


> I dont know why the other one is mono. This would be a better test if both clips are using the same cabs, right? you would get a better idea of the amp model.



so arent they using the same cab? or just only same amp?, bit of a difference between the two I though the helix was going to be closer to the AxeII


----------



## lewis

lol the 12 foot ninja sample is literally no different from their POD HD demos and sounds and things Ive heard plenty of guys dial in and sample over the years.

Basically the Helix is a Pod HD Pro (With less effects), a nice flashy screen and the ability to load IRs plus loads more inputs/outputs and config?. Hardly worth all the extra dollar over the HD Pro imo. Not if these early samples are to go by. They sound no different than HD Pro sounds with 3rd party IRs


----------



## remus1710

they are both using stock cabs... not the same IR


----------



## Veldar

lewis said:


> lol the 12 foot ninja sample is literally no different from their POD HD demos and sounds and things Ive heard plenty of guys dial in and sample over the years.



To play devils advocate Stevic likes those signature Pod tones, probably tried to dial it in like that.


----------



## big_aug

From that comparison, I think the sounds are just different. Both sound pretty good to me. The order I listen to them would probably make more difference than which is which to be honest.


----------



## russmuller

MASS DEFECT said:


> Here is a comparison of Helix and Axe II clips. I think these are Quantum firmware for the Axe II. Stock cabs from both units.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/gasp100
> 
> (clips by gasp100)



I think the Axe sounds meatier and chewier on about half of these, the Helix sounded better on 1, and 2 of them I didn't have a preference between the two.

Considering that these aren't necessarily the same source amps being modelled (ex. Friedman BE), that's a pretty strong effort on the part of Line 6. I think that in a more apples-to-apples comparison, using the exact same models and with the same cab IR loaded in each unit, that the gap would probably narrow even further.

While I still believe that Fractal has a slight edge, I wonder how appreciable the difference is within a mix.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Lain said:


> Do you have anything planned with the Helix line in regards to releasing an Helix amp or a smaller pedal boards and stuff like that?


Not allowed to talk about future plans, but this is Line 6we'll probably figure out ways to milk that cash cow for years to come.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'd like to hear a comparison of the two with external IRs. Then we'd get a closer comparison of the amp models themselves. 



Digital Igloo said:


> Not allowed to talk about future plans, but this is Line 6we'll probably figure out ways to milk that cash cow for years to come.



 That's a good joke.

Right?

...

...Right?


----------



## Steinmetzify

Listened to those clips on TGP a couple days ago. This is the best Line6 has ever sounded to my ears. 

Don't need this so not going to buy, but I'm stoked for the guys that grab it. Stellar tones for a much more accessible price point. 

Anyone that has one elaborate on how easy it is to dial in? Is it just B/M/T for a good tone like on the Axe or is it a bit more involved?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

russmuller said:


> I think the Axe sounds meatier and chewier on about half of these, the Helix sounded better on 1, and 2 of them I didn't have a preference between the two.
> 
> Considering that these aren't necessarily the same source amps being modelled (ex. Friedman BE), that's a pretty strong effort on the part of Line 6. I think that in a more apples-to-apples comparison, using the exact same models and with the same cab IR loaded in each unit, that the gap would probably narrow even further.
> 
> While I still believe that Fractal has a slight edge, I wonder how appreciable the difference is within a mix.



For me, I liked the Helix SLO and Vox models in that comparison compared to the axe fx sample. The Helix SLO sounded fat and chunky but tight like the SLO100. The Axe Fx SLO I guess suffered from EQ problems. I've heard nicer SLO clips coming from the axe. 

The Vox model was surprisingly good.


----------



## russmuller

MASS DEFECT said:


> For me, I liked the Helix SLO and Vox models in that comparison compared to the axe fx sample. The Helix SLO sounded fat and chunky but tight like the SLO100. The Axe Fx SLO I guess suffered from EQ problems. I've heard nicer SLO clips coming from the axe.
> 
> The Vox model was surprisingly good.



Yup! I thought the SLO sounded better on the Helix, and I thought the Vox was about equal between the two of them. The wet clean at the end there I also didn't have a preference between.


----------



## Lrrrr

Has anybody ordered through Musicians Friend? Their expected ship date has been moving daily and now it shows November 13, updated from October 10 on Friday.

They laid the fault at the feet of Line 6 claiming that no distributors have been able to get units to customers and that they've had trouble getting a firm date from Line 6 as to when we can expect anything. Has anybody been able to confirm this month long delay (I'm hoping it's a typo but was led to believe that it isn't)?...if so I'm going to cancel.


----------



## Vrollin

Fingers crossed will have mine this afternoon! It's just been scanned into the depot in town this morning...


----------



## androponic

Mine is being delivered via FedEx tomorrow too.


----------



## A-Branger

remus1710 said:


> they are both using stock cabs... not the same IR



but thats due to the Axe FX getting an external IR instaled, or did it was using the stock sounds of the Axe??


----------



## big_aug

I find the Helix to be pretty solid after having it for a few days. Im able to get a lot of sounds I like through my headphones and monitors. I had a 6505+ 1x12 just before this that I sold. I like the Helix a lot more. Ive only had tube combo amps so maybe I don't get it. Ive had a few nice ones in the past. Some Mesas, a Marshall, a Peavey, etc. They sounded good but the Helix can do so much more so much easier.

Happy with my purchase.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

How is it in 4 cable mode? Any tone/volume suck?


----------



## big_aug

I don't have a tube amp anymore to try it. I sold it about a week ago.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Not bad. Not bad at all. Congratulations, Line 6!


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

MASS DEFECT said:


> Not bad. Not bad at all. Congratulations, Line 6!




This sounds really good indeed!


----------



## elkinz

Picked up my Helix yesterday! Im in Auckland, New Zealand.

Had a play around on it for an hour or 2 and MAN im impressed. Scrolling through the presets I can hear there are a lot of sounds that aren't for me, but once I started tweaking them with basic eq and drive pedals, etc - I really started getting sounds that got me excited!

So far my favourites are the 5150 emulation, and the fender cleans, and for bass the GK800 slays! Actually I was really impressed with bass because I just couldn't get a sound I liked out of my Pod HD500 for bass - but I just put the stock GK800 amp into an SVT8x10 cab IR and loved it straight away. So I cant wait to tweak that and see how awesome itll be.

In terms of usability - theres virtually no need for any manual. Its so straight forward and easy to understand. I suppose I knew the basics from having a HD500 but this is definitely a different league. 

Very happy


----------



## MASS DEFECT

How's the 5150 sim compared to the one in the HD500?


----------



## elkinz

I think its a lot better but I was never really very happy with my hd500. It feels way more like im playing an amp, that's for sure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

How does it compare to other 5150 sims like the Axe, Kemper, or TSE? 

I find that I prefer the TSE X50 over the POD HD500. The POD HD is tighter, but there's something about the slightly saggier chugginess, yet more apparent pick attack of the TSE I prefer more. it feels a lot more like a real amp.


----------



## elkinz

Iv yet to A/B it with my buddies axefx, but he took one on appro and a/b'ed it himself and said it was just as good as the axe. I haven't heard them next to each other but he does have a good ear for things  im finding that if I don't like something about an amp on helix I can find a way to fix it - theres more options in terms of how the amp is set up. (sag, EQ, distances, all sorts).


----------



## sevenstringj

Btw, Eleven Rack.


----------



## Lain

Digital Igloo said:


> Not allowed to talk about future plans, but this is Line 6&#8212;we'll probably figure out ways to milk that cash cow for years to come.


I'm sure you will. 

Actually, if this wasn't so far out of my price range, i would've probably broken my word and bought something from Line6. 
Good job with the Helix, the reviews are raving and the audio i heard so far seems promising.


----------



## bloc

sevenstringj said:


> Btw, Eleven Rack.



Bwahahahaha


----------



## TheShreddinHand

MASS DEFECT said:


> Not bad. Not bad at all. Congratulations, Line 6!




I'm impressed now, this sounded good. Thanks for posting.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Would totally rock this Soldano tone.


----------



## elkinz

I just went through the soldano lead patch last night and HOLY HELL it kicks ass! It feels so good playing through it for rhythm and chords are so chunky. Everytime I play this thing I get more excited about it


----------



## Ericjutsu

Post more clips guys! Especially modern metal


----------



## elkinz

Ill probably record something metal/rock tonight if I have the chance. Will post if I do


----------



## demorior

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IuX5L8DjtM

really digging the soldano


----------



## iron blast

I'm still hoping somone will post some metal demos of it the soladano one is close but still not quite in heavy territory. I'm probably not going to hear anything soon as all I'm hearing are blues and dad rock demos. I bet when they do post it will be all djent and deathcore tones too sadly. I'm probably the minority but I play black metal and death metal is love to hear what this beast can do as my hd500 is good but not good enough to run by itself live. I currently just use the hd500 for effects thru my marshall jvm 210. If this is good enough I'll just snag a Mesa 2/90 or some other tube power amp and it will save my band having to cart around so much crap live


----------



## ihunda

Just got one on ebay (less than retail price, at first the guys was asking for more!), looking forward to compare some heavy riffs the old AXE FX II,


----------



## Vrollin

elkinz said:


> I just went through the soldano lead patch last night and HOLY HELL it kicks ass! It feels so good playing through it for rhythm and chords are so chunky. Everytime I play this thing I get more excited about it



What are you running in your chain for that and on what settings? I'm slowly learning how to use this modelling stuff and so far I have found it is not really like just having and amp right in front of you....


----------



## big_aug

I had an an HD500 for a couple years and then a pod HD desktop later on. I'll be honest and say I really don't know .... about dialing in a good tone. I was never able to get anything I liked out of the HD500 on my own. I had to get latches from others. With my Helix, I've not had any trouble getting sounds I like. Those sounds might not be up to the standards of others, but I've not even felt the urge to look for patches made by others. I will eventually, but it's not the necessity it was for me on the HD500.

There is zero doubt this thing can do metal. It's not hard to pull up the Uberschall or the ENGL and get some good sounding stuff. I don't have anything I can record with. I can't even do the firmware update at the moment lol.


----------



## elkinz

Vrollin said:


> What are you running in your chain for that and on what settings? I'm slowly learning how to use this modelling stuff and so far I have found it is not really like just having and amp right in front of you....



im at work at the moment and cant remember the settings but I tend to roll of bass, turn up some presence, lower the sag a bit for more tightness - run a 808 boost in front, compression, EQ and 2 cabs at the moment. 

To be honest im experimenting because its a new piece of gear! But im definitely getting awesome sounds and that's just straight from helix to my studio monitors


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Is it ok to post links from other forums here? Somebody just did a Kemper vs Helix shootout between different amp models. Cool clips! The Helix is sounding formidable in these demos. 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helix-kemper-clips.1629076/


----------



## meambobbo

tbat's a great comparison. helix sounds pretty legit. thing is...it's not always as simple as saying here's the kemper. the kemper doesn't have 1 take on the Rectifier or Uberschall or Fireball - even the same amp mic'ed differently can sound quite different. but i'm just nitpicking. good to see Line 6 is making a quality competitive product.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

meambobbo said:


> tbat's a great comparison. helix sounds pretty legit. thing is...it's not always as simple as saying here's the kemper. the kemper doesn't have 1 take on the Rectifier or Uberschall or Fireball - even the same amp mic'ed differently can sound quite different. but i'm just nitpicking. good to see Line 6 is making a quality competitive product.




are you getting a helix? should we expect an online guide like what you did with the HD?


----------



## big_aug

Has anyone used external IRs? I have no experience with them and was wondering if they really do make a huge difference. I think the Helix sounds great, so I'm not searching for something to fix a problem. I'm just curious.


----------



## PBGas

As much as I didn't want to, I cancelled my order for a Helix rack and control. A couple of items came my way out of sheer luck and timing that I have wanted for a very long time and I'm really looking forward to owning them!


----------



## ihunda

Just got my Helix today, I only spent 15 minutes on it, first raw impressions:

This bloody thing is HUGE, much bigger than the Axe FX footswitch, it takes a lot of real estate
Packaging is very fancy, think iPhone vs Android. All black and it does look pretty.
Holy connectivity Batman, so many options. But I was able to start playing with just XLR to a mixer, jack and power. Easy
A lot of clean and blues preset to go through before getting to high gain stuff... I was growing out of patience I guess...
Damn, these default presets are over processed and don't sound natural at all
A quick blank preset with a JCM 2204 boosted with a 808, 2 4x12 cabs going into a 57 and a 121 mics -> instant great tone, huge grin on my face, there's potential!!!!


----------



## lewis

ihunda said:


> Just got my Helix today, I only spent 15 minutes on it, first raw impressions:
> 
> This bloody thing is HUGE, much bigger than the Axe FX footswitch, it takes a lot of real estate
> Packaging is very fancy, think iPhone vs Android. All black and it does look pretty.
> Holy connectivity Batman, so many options. But I was able to start playing with just XLR to a mixer, jack and power. Easy
> A lot of clean and blues preset to go through before getting to high gain stuff... *I was growing out of patience I guess...
> [*]Damn, these default presets are over processed and don't sound natural at all
> [*]A quick blank preset with a JCM 2204 boosted with a 808, 2 4x12 cabs going into a 57 and a 121 mics -> instant great tone, huge grin on my face, there's potential!!!!
> *


*
*

So again....not really any different to a Pod HD Pro then?. Presets suck, but with our own input towards patches there is potential for a decent sound?. Yep very HD Pro sounding to me.


----------



## Vrollin

lewis said:


> [/B]
> 
> So again....not really any different to a Pod HD Pro then?. Presets suck, but with our own input towards patches there is potential for a decent sound?. Yep very HD Pro sounding to me.



If you are actively trying to claim the Helix to be a HD Pro then I guess you could push that conclusion....


----------



## Vrollin

elkinz said:


> im at work at the moment and cant remember the settings but I tend to roll of bass, turn up some presence, lower the sag a bit for more tightness - run a 808 boost in front, compression, EQ and 2 cabs at the moment.
> 
> To be honest im experimenting because its a new piece of gear! But im definitely getting awesome sounds and that's just straight from helix to my studio monitors



I delved more into the second page of the amp settings, sag, hum, bias, bias x etc, these seem to be the most important parameters for dialing in your tone on different equipment. Nailed some sweet tones out of this, still waiting for my housemates to be out of the house for a bit so I can crank this thing


----------



## elkinz

I don't think anyone buys these units or most modelers to play the presets anyway


----------



## Fretless

elkinz said:


> I don't think anyone buys these units or most modelers to play the presets anyway




[sarcasm]
I take offense to this statement! I only buy modelers to use their presets. The companies who make them know what is best because they make the units. 
[/sarcasm]


p.s. my darn embed codes for sarcasm don't seem to be working as well lately.


----------



## elkinz

Vrollin said:


> I delved more into the second page of the amp settings, sag, hum, bias, bias x etc, these seem to be the most important parameters for dialing in your tone on different equipment. Nailed some sweet tones out of this, still waiting for my housemates to be out of the house for a bit so I can crank this thing




couldn't agree more - I found the most tonal difference with those setting changes. Still getting my head around it - iv only had a little bit of time to play because iv been moving house but I have Friday off so will be shaking the walls till someone stops me with noise! hahaha

I have very high hopes for when I introduce some IR's into the equation. Iv never used IR's but my buddies tell me they can completely transform how the amp sim sounds. Very excited.


----------



## big_aug

Yea, I've found the amps respond really well to changes in EQ/deep parameters. The Helix is definitely the most enjoyable experience I've ever had using an amp/modeler. I never really enjoyed making patches or tweaking amps before. I would try and find one sound I liked and then I'd just never change it. I'm really having a good time setting up patches and tweaking. 

I know it just came out, but I'm already anxiously awaiting the release of more high gain amps. I like all the ones already there, but more is better


----------



## elkinz

big_aug said:


> I know it just came out, but I'm already anxiously awaiting the release of more high gain amps. I like all the ones already there, but more is better



dudeeee yes! I remember Digital Igloo from the line 6 forums responded to someone on the line 6 forums when they said they loved the unit, and he said something along the lines of "_*thanks. its going to get better*_"

hell yea!


----------



## meambobbo

MASS DEFECT said:


> are you getting a helix? should we expect an online guide like what you did with the HD?



not likely. I'm quite fond of my Kemper and can't afford both. However, my Pod HD guide is in the process of being converted to a wiki, where anyone will be able to expand upon and add their own Helix guide!


----------



## lewis

Vrollin said:


> If you are actively trying to claim the Helix to be a HD Pro then I guess you could push that conclusion....



I just meant its hardly what they billed it to be, if it shares numerous similarities to the HD Pro. Sounding average to woeful from stock and needing loads of tweaks, cheats, hacks and insights to get sounding amazing. In that respect its the same as how people use the HD Pro.

Yet you play through a stock Kemper or an Axe FX and right away your at jizz'city regards to tones.


----------



## John_Strychnine

got mine today, 5 minutes in and its leagues ahead of the HD...

I loveboth the HD and the XT but with time and patience to go through the options.. the Helix is miles ahead. The rectifier model is the only one i've tried so far and it feels and sounds almost identical to a recto head...


----------



## ThePIGI King

lewis said:


> I just meant its hardly what they billed it to be, if it shares numerous similarities to the HD Pro. Sounding average to woeful from stock and needing loads of tweaks, cheats, hacks and insights to get sounding amazing. In that respect its the same as how people use the HD Pro.
> 
> Yet you play through a stock Kemper or an Axe FX and right away your at jizz'city regards to tones.



Okay, but who cares about stock tones? Who pays well over a grand for a piece of equipment that is meant to be tweaked beyond belief for each individuals ideal sound just to play the presets? That's like buying a Porche, taking the tires off, and then complaining that you can't drive it...


----------



## Shask

ThePIGI King said:


> Okay, but who cares about stock tones? Who pays well over a grand for a piece of equipment that is meant to be tweaked beyond belief for each individuals ideal sound just to play the presets? That's like buying a Porche, taking the tires off, and then complaining that you can't drive it...



I think the complaint is that you *HAVE* to. Not that you can.

I know when I had a HD500, I was always messing with it. You had to have a lot of tweaking tricks to get it sound decent. With an Axe-FX, just turning to default settings sounds great. You can, of course, tweak it like crazy, but the thing is you dont have to. It sounds good without advanced tricks.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

so...anybody here has used the Helix with a power amp, 4x12 and the pre amp models? i'm more interested with the pre amp models and if they are a big improvement over the HD pre amp models. 

Using pre amp models with a 4x12 conventional guitar cab sounded pretty decent with the HD series already.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Shask said:


> I think the complaint is that you *HAVE* to. Not that you can.
> 
> I know when I had a HD500, I was always messing with it. You had to have a lot of tweaking tricks to get it sound decent. With an Axe-FX, just turning to default settings sounds great. You can, of course, tweak it like crazy, but the thing is you dont have to. It sounds good without advanced tricks.



That's just pure lazy IMO. If you're gonna be so lazy to not bother tweaking the settings, just get a customized one from the interwebz. When I think of getting a Helix, I imagine the endless tweaks to get the tone I've always dreamed of, not getting the tone somebody else thought would be good. But, like everything music, it's subjective.


----------



## mikah912

lewis said:


> Yet you play through a stock Kemper or an Axe FX and right away your at jizz'city regards to tones.



Is that why there's an AxeChange for patches and numerous commercial cab packs for sale, plus a huge commercial third party Kemper profile market? 

Because anyone who plugs in instantly gets "jizz'city" tones that they are completely satisfied with?


----------



## Laimon

mikah912 said:


> Is that why there's an AxeChange for patches and numerous commercial cab packs for sale, plus a huge commercial third party Kemper profile market?
> 
> Because anyone who plugs in instantly gets "jizz'city" tones that they are completely satisfied with?



No, there is a market for that because there is GAS.
(from which I am far from immune myself, but there are some free profiles that remain among my favorite after years)

EDIT: and I second the "jizz city" statement about the KPA, 5 minutes after switching it on I was in complete love with it.


----------



## mikah912

Laimon said:


> No, there is a market for that because there is GAS.
> (from which I am far from immune myself, but there are some free profiles that remain among my favorite after years)



I read and hear a lot of players disappointed with the factory profiles on their Kemper, and they come to this forum and many others asking for a third party one to help them prove that the purchase was worth it. Fractal has continually updated both the modeling and quality and breadth of IRs in the factory Axe-FX image over the past few years as well partly in response to these same complaints.

I don't have a Helix yet, and I wouldn't buy one at this time precisely because I have my own reservations about a few things. That being said, it's 1.0 or 1.1 or whatever. Axe-FX FW 1 or the first factory set of profiles of Kemper would also not fare well with tone expectations these days, IMHO. I think the raw material is there, but it will take Line 6 time to refine it to where it's as "instant" as it is when you plug into a Kemper or Axe-FX in late 2015.


----------



## Dead-Pan

mikah912 said:


> I read and hear a lot of players disappointed with the factory profiles on their Kemper, and they come to this forum and many others asking for a third party one to help them prove that the purchase was worth it. Fractal has continually updated both the modeling and quality and breadth of IRs in the factory Axe-FX image over the past few years as well partly in response to these same complaints.
> 
> I don't have a Helix yet, and I wouldn't buy one at this time precisely because I have my own reservations about a few things. That being said, it's 1.0 or 1.1 or whatever. Axe-FX FW 1 or the first factory set of profiles of Kemper would also not fare well with tone expectations these days, IMHO. I think the raw material is there, but it will take Line 6 time to refine it to where it's as "instant" as it is when you plug into a Kemper or Axe-FX in late 2015.



Have to say though that this is not Line 6's first go around.

They started all of this with the Axsys. I would think they would have it figured out by now.

It seems they are hiding behind a study they or whoever have done that supposedly came to the conclusion that all presets suck. Well I will say that there are profiles for the Kemper that are awesome and will work for ANYBODY within a certain style while possibly better for some they work like a real amp. You could say all amps suck as some people don't like certain amps. This goes beyond that. If I like a certain amp and pull up that model on any device I should be able to relate to the preset immediately.


----------



## mikah912

Dead-Pan said:


> Have to say though that this is not Line 6's first go around.
> 
> They started all of this with the Axsys. I would think they would have it figured out by now.
> 
> It seems they are hiding behind a study they or whoever have done that supposedly came to the conclusion that all presets suck. Well I will say that there are profiles for the Kemper that are awesome and will work for ANYBODY within a certain style while possibly better for some they work like a real amp. You could say all amps suck as some people don't like certain amps. This goes beyond that. If I like a certain amp and pull up that model on any device I should be able to relate to the preset immediately.



Has anybody really exhausted every Helix factory preset thus far and can definitively say that all of them are bad?

I don't think so. That being said, multiple people who own the amps in Helix are saying they are not responding or sounding like the one they own. That is disconcerting.


----------



## elkinz

there are heaps of awesome factory presets on helix..

I think what people are forgetting is that every rig is different and no guitar sounds the same through one setup so there is very little chance the same preset will sound amazing on all guitars/rigs. Some sounded fantastic with my guitars, others sounded horrible - but I tried a different guitar and the presets were all different for that guitar.


----------



## big_aug

I don't get the obsession with presets. I spent maybe a few minutes with them just to see what they were like. Then I immediately started doing my own thing with blank presets. I'm curious if people would be upset if no presets were included at all. I never realized anyone gave a .... about them on any device.

I like Helix a lot. I can't wait to get an Ax8 though to compare. I'm going to get one and return it during the return period. Maybe I'll keep it to run in one of the Helix effects loops lol. Can't really afford it though. They have a decent return period right?


----------



## xero7

Is there anybody that has a helix and an axe fx or someone who has played both? I think I ve seen everything on the internet so far regarding the helix but haven't found anything comparing both sound wise.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

xero7 said:


> Is there anybody that has a helix and an axe fx or someone who has played both? I think I ve seen everything on the internet so far regarding the helix but haven't found anything comparing both sound wise.



Axe Fx II Quantum vs Helix

https://soundcloud.com/gasp100/sets/helix-and-axefx-ii-clips


----------



## Dead-Pan

Little heavy clip:

https://soundcloud.com/scott_riley-1/line-6-helix-dual-amp-test

Authors explanation "ENGL + Stock Mesa (Cali) cab on one side, Uberschall + Uber T75 cab on the other. Left cabs at default except high and low cuts. I&#8217;d never use this in a mix but something similar live, but in a single guitar band that still needs to sound heavy, something like this could work really well with some in-depth tweaking."


----------



## russmuller

Dead-Pan said:


> It seems they are hiding behind a study they or whoever have done that supposedly came to the conclusion that all presets suck. Well I will say that there are profiles for the Kemper that are awesome and will work for ANYBODY within a certain style while possibly better for some they work like a real amp. You could say all amps suck as some people don't like certain amps. This goes beyond that. If I like a certain amp and pull up that model on any device I should be able to relate to the preset immediately.



By and large, presets from the manufacturer are designed to highlight the capabilities of the unit; to show what's possible from certain effects and configurations. I'm sure there are some usable tones in the presets, but I'm gonna guess that anyone who actually buys something as complex and customize-able as the Helix is not looking for a cookie-cutter tone out of the box.

Any user is going to want to customize a preset for their own tone preferences and gear. When's the last time you hopped on someone else's rig and didn't turn a knob to adjust it to your liking? When was the last time you plugged into an amp at Guitar Center and didn't dial in some settings before you found the sweet spot?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

From those clips the Axe II still sounds more authentic by far. Helix has this strange cloudy lower midrange and duller pick attack. Still sounds great though, especially for 1000$ less.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Were those clips of the Helix/Axe Fx through the same IR? The only reason I ask is that Line 6's IRs are notoriously crappy and I want to hear the amp sims on an even footing. If they're the same IR then the Helix got plowed.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Were those clips of the Helix/Axe Fx through the same IR? The only reason I ask is that Line 6's IRs are notoriously crappy and I want to hear the amp sims on an even footing. If they're the same IR then the Helix got plowed.




nope. the guy used the stock IRs from each box. I posted a link a page back of a Kemper and Helix shootout with a 5150 amp model using the same IR. Helix sounded close enough.


----------



## androponic

check this out...
Line 6 | Helix


----------



## MASS DEFECT

androponic said:


> check this out...
> Line 6 | Helix



lol I just got 2 out of 5!


----------



## knet370

androponic said:


> check this out...
> Line 6 | Helix



wth i got zero..is this test supposed to make us shut up and just buy it? lol.


----------



## xero7

45 percent twice for me. Sounds pretty legit and alot better than my hd. Not to say I haven't heard a ton of great hd clips either though.


----------



## sacredl

androponic said:


> check this out...
> Line 6 | Helix



guessed correctly 5 of 5, not a good indicator to be honest . Helix lacks that very highish (6000hz and higher) sparkle and its bass is more floppy.


----------



## Lain

Yeah. I got 5 out of 5 too. 
This is a bit concerning.... at least Line6 is honest though.


----------



## lewis

xero7 said:


> 45 percent twice for me. Sounds pretty legit and alot better than my hd. Not to say I haven't heard a ton of great hd clips either though.



I just got the identical score. And also own the HD so can relate to that.

so tired of all the clips, demos, test and talk of this thing being all country, blues and chicken pickin style licks. 

I did the test and didnt even have a light rock driven sound let alone metal.  annoying how modern metal heads are what are always drawn to these products more than the valve tone purists that play Blues that would never considering anything other than tube amps, yet its those same Metal guys that get overlooked on all the marketing and features by Line 6.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> I did the test and didnt even have a light rock driven sound let alone metal.  annoying how modern metal heads are what are always drawn to these products more than the valve tone purists that play Blues that would never considering anything other than tube amps, yet its those same Metal guys that get overlooked on all the marketing and features by Line 6.



I've said it before and I'll say it again...

Have you seen TGP's thread? It dwarfs this one. They're more hyped for this than we are. And TGP is like 95% country and blues wankers.


----------



## Lain

Blues is where it's at! 

Also, TGP is incredibly larger than this forum here, so of course there will be more replies.


----------



## Tr3vor

Man, I wish someone around here could get their hands on one and get some metal tones. I'm wanting to get something like this and my options seem to be either this or an AX8, whenever that comes out. If I could just hear some good metal tones on the Helix, the pedal and UI could push me to get this. It looks really appealing, but I'm not hearing what I want to hear.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again...
> 
> Have you seen TGP's thread? It dwarfs this one. They're more hyped for this than we are. And TGP is like 95% country and blues wankers.


----------



## mikah912

The brand new John Browne/Qatsi album is all Pod. HD, I think.

Helix models those exact same amps, but at a higher resolution. There is your demo.

I got 2 out of 5 too. I'm glad there are 5 out of 5 peeps out there, but those "differences" are inaudible to the vast majority of guitarists and in the vast majority of playing environments.

Line 6 nailed it.


----------



## slapnutz

Got 3 out of 5. Annoyingly non of them were heavy high gain samples which is the main thing I want compared.


----------



## Lain

mikah912 said:


> but those "differences" are inaudible to the vast majority of guitarists and in the vast majority of playing environments.
> 
> Line 6 nailed it.


Inaudible? I found them pretty audible and the difference is probably even bigger if you are playing yourself instead of listening to clips.
Sure, maybe not audible for the audience at a concert with a full band but personally i buy gear for me, not for someone in the audience that might or might not hear the difference.


----------



## Shask

lewis said:


> I just got the identical score. And also own the HD so can relate to that.
> 
> so tired of all the clips, demos, test and talk of this thing being all country, blues and chicken pickin style licks.
> 
> I did the test and didnt even have a light rock driven sound let alone metal.  annoying how modern metal heads are what are always drawn to these products more than the valve tone purists that play Blues that would never considering anything other than tube amps, yet its those same Metal guys that get overlooked on all the marketing and features by Line 6.



That is really one of my concerns about Line 6 in general these days. Lack of high gain amp models, lack of high gain demos, lack of even talking about high gain...... It just seems like that is not their focus. Totally opposite than in the past when they had metal-only amps like the HD147.


----------



## katsumura78

5/5 on the challenge. The helix has something lacking in the highs but they are pretty dang close.


----------



## wheelsdeal

I myself i am very interested about the Helix as i was looking for a more user friendly and reasonably priced unit than the Axe FX.

For the videos i've seen it sounds better than the Pod and not as good as the Axe so it sits in between.

If they add stuff with updates and maybe like a Metal Pack with more amps i believe it will be worth the money.


----------



## mikah912

Shask said:


> That is really one of my concerns about Line 6 in general these days. Lack of high gain amp models, lack of high gain demos, lack of even talking about high gain...... It just seems like that is not their focus. Totally opposite than in the past when they had metal-only amps like the HD147.



This always blows my mind as I'm one of the chief complainers about the lack of an expanded amp selection for Helix, but....

You guys know there are eight high gain amp channels in Helix, and you can run them as dual amps and/or run them with dual IRs, right?

Dual Rec
5150
Uberschall
Soldano Lead
Fireball
Epic
Eletrik
Doom

Arguably with a boost, you could count the JCM800 and Bogner Shiva in that list too. 

Again, I think they're missing some stuff, but most high gain amps are derivatives of one of the amps in this list. Yes, I'd like to see a Mesa Mark IIC+, have them add back in the Diezels from the Pod X3 era, a Friedman or Splawn and maybe a Fryette...but by and large, Line 6 is not IGNORING metal players. They just released a Metal add-on pack for the HD500 earlier this year. 

They just don't have too many modern metal players on staff. At some point, Ola, John Browne, Paul Ortiz and other guys who have demoed the HD500 in the past will demo this.


----------



## Lain

wheelsdeal said:


> I myself i am very interested about the Helix as i was looking for a more user friendly and reasonably priced unit than the Axe FX.


Take a look at the Amplifire (around 600$ i think) and Fractal AX8 (1399$).


----------



## mikah912

AX8 is gonna be hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd to get for awhile after it launches - whenever that is.

Amplifire is quite solid tho. I demoed it extensively here (search for it. Not too many Amplifire threads here). They've since added Soldano and Friedman HBE models.


----------



## Lrrrr

I received my unit a little over a week ago. I've never played through an AXEII so I can't offer any comparisons, but what I will say is just experience it for yourself. There will *never* be an apples to apples comparison between Helix, Kemper, Axe ect. Using somebody else's clips, especially the Youtube quick demo's as a primary decision making tool is a mistake so take both the Fractal forum **** slinging and the GP fanboying with a grain of salt.

Anywho, first impressions:

-stock presets sound better than anything I was able to achieve on the Pod HD (internally available tools only)
-tweaking on the unit itself is more than easy...it's actually fun!
-they don't have quite the amp/effect selection of a certain competitor but the amps/effects that are included slay - SLO, 5150, Recto all really well done and I'm in love with the AC30 as well
-parameters are a little bit different
-I haven't updated firmware but I have found a couple instances where it is unstable for some reason; I'll change the in/out configuration via Reaper or GP or another device and the Helix will change an internal setting, usually switching to the factory preset library
-*here's my biggest beef with all of the negative feedback so far: there have been a few claims that the Helix is just a polished Pod with shinier lights, the sound backing those claims up...the stock unit sounds great and even better in person but the cab sims aren't quite to the level of some of the impulses floating around. It's irrational to expect L6 to compete with the big boys with completely their own devices, fortunately for us they listened to the community's demand for internal IRs (and they followed through with an interface that's more user friendly than any loader I've ever used before). There are opinions far more educated than mine but I posit that when you load up a well constructed impulse into the Helix you'll find that the sound is every bit as good as any modeler on the market right now, maybe even indistinguishable from the competitors.

I'll post up a couple cover songs in the next couple weeks when I get the sound that I want really dialed in.

All in all there are a few firmware bugs to work out but I think L6 hit a homerun with this machine.


----------



## DarrellM5

I've had my Helix for 2 weeks now and I'm very impressed. Here are some of my thoughts:

Some of the stock presets are really good. You can tell that some of them were just made to showcase the incredible routing capabilities though.
Scribble strips are awesome! I can't imagine going back, or forward, to any modeler without this feature.
It's incredibly easy to use. I was able to create a fairly complex preset that allows A/B'ing an Engl Fireball 100 and a 5150 thru a Redwire Marshall Cab IR in under 3 minutes. That includes inserting 7 effects and mapping them to the footswitches. It sounds incredible.
The effects models are amazing. They are a huge improvement over the HD500X effects. Watch for lots of stomp boxes going up for sale on Reverb soon.
The routing capabilitis are off the chart. Pretty much if you can think of the signal chain you'd like, it can do it.
I was planning on keeping my HD500X as a backup. That's not going to happen. If I really need a backup, it will be another Helix.
The MIDI is very easy to use (and I had zero MIDI experience prior to this). I created a preset that sends the MIDI commands to my DT25 amp to switch topologies, class settings and pentode/triode.
I've never considered myself very good at creating patches. I usually ended up using patches that I dowloaded from CustomTone. Now the patch I created that's mentioned above is my go to patch. I even uploaded it to CustomTone (5150 FBall), which I never did with a HD500X patch.
I'm loving the high gain sounds that I'm getting out of Helix. It sounds really good with the Nazgul/Sentient pickup combo in my Schecter Banshee 6. Tomorrow I'll be experimenting with my KM7.

I'll leave it at that for now but hopefully you can tell that I'm really excited about Helix. If I had been given a chance to demo it, I would have been willing to pay considerably more to own one.


----------



## lewis

DarrellM5 said:


> I've had my Helix for 2 weeks now and I'm very impressed. Here are some of my thoughts:
> 
> Some of the stock presets are really good. You can tell that some of them were just made to showcase the incredible routing capabilities though.
> Scribble strips are awesome! I can't imagine going back, or forward, to any modeler without this feature.
> It's incredibly easy to use. I was able to create a fairly complex preset that allows A/B'ing an Engl Fireball 100 and a 5150 thru a Redwire Marshall Cab IR in under 3 minutes. That includes inserting 7 effects and mapping them to the footswitches. It sounds incredible.
> The effects models are amazing. They are a huge improvement over the HD500X effects. Watch for lots of stomp boxes going up for sale on Reverb soon.
> The routing capabilitis are off the chart. Pretty much if you can think of the signal chain you'd like, it can do it.
> I was planning on keeping my HD500X as a backup. That's not going to happen. If I really need a backup, it will be another Helix.
> The MIDI is very easy to use (and I had zero MIDI experience prior to this). I created a preset that sends the MIDI commands to my DT25 amp to switch topologies, class settings and pentode/triode.
> I've never considered myself very good at creating patches. I usually ended up using patches that I dowloaded from CustomTone. Now the patch I created that's mentioned above is my go to patch. I even uploaded it to CustomTone (5150 FBall), which I never did with a HD500X patch.
> I'm loving the high gain sounds that I'm getting out of Helix. It sounds really good with the Nazgul/Sentient pickup combo in my Schecter Banshee 6. *Tomorrow I'll be experimenting with my KM7*.
> 
> I'll leave it at that for now but hopefully you can tell that I'm really excited about Helix. If I had been given a chance to demo it, I would have been willing to pay considerably more to own one.



Does that mean a long overdue modern metal or Djent type video/tone clip to follow?????


----------



## DarrellM5

lewis said:


> Does that mean a long overdue modern metal or Djent type video/tone clip to follow?????



It will be my first but I'll give it a shot.


----------



## big_aug

DarrellM5 said:


> [*]I've never considered myself very good at creating patches. I usually ended up using patches that I dowloaded from CustomTone. Now the patch I created that's mentioned above is my go to patch. I even uploaded it to CustomTone (5150 FBall), which I never did with a HD500X patch.



I had the same exact experience. I always downloaded patches for my HD500. With Helix, I've been able to get sounds I like pretty quickly and easily. And you're right, creating patches is actually enjoyable.

To be honest, I'm really happy with the Uberschall and 5150 models with just an overdrive in front. They sound fantastic.


----------



## sevenstringj

Using the "Helix lacks certain high end/has flubbier bass than the real amp" insight by the 5/5'ers, I got 4 out of 5.







WRONG, that is. 

Then I got 3/5 right. Then 4/5. Then 2/5. Then 3/5. Then 1/5.

With studio cans, both closed & open, and cheapo ear buds.

I think the 5/5'ers need to demonstrate that they can get 5/5 _repeatedly_, and specify what they're listening through.

Of course this whole comparison is stupid. No one cares whether it sounds like a real amp. What the people of ss.org really want to know is whether it can sound like an Axe FX or Kemper, or at least 51.7-58.1% like an Axe FX or Kemper ($1500/$2900 to $1500/$2580).


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Man, the 5/5 guys must really have golden ears and really niiiice monitors, because I can't hear a significant difference. 

Tried again 7 times. I average 40% right. I guess people who would be unhappy with the Helix are the ones who are looking for better "feel" like the one that Quantum-ed Axe Fxs allegedly have.


----------



## Lain

MASS DEFECT said:


> Man, the 5/5 guys must really have golden ears and really niiiice monitors, because I can't hear a significant difference.
> 
> Tried again 7 times. I average 40% right. I guess people who would be unhappy with the Helix are the ones who are looking for better "feel" like the one that Quantum-ed Axe Fxs allegedly have.


5/5 at my computer with 600&#8364; speakers.
4/5 again with a FRFR setup.
4/5 with 130&#8364; studio headphones.

There are always different soundsamples, maybe that is a reason too.

I don't even claim to have good ears because i don't but the difference in that test is so freaking obvious.
Maybe you can't hear the difference if you have only played Line6 Spyders and other crap modeling amps your whole life....


----------



## SSK0909

Im listening on 1300&#8364; Mackie monitors and the Helix samples are somewhat, if not always, easy to seperate from the amp samples. The cleans do lack some sparkle and there is this weird smoothness to the low end on the higher gain sounds. Still an enormous improvement from the HD series.

But what I really want to know is how long it takes to dial in these tones. 
People have been getting stellar tones on XT's, HD's and Axe-fx 1 units, but some of those tones often required hours of careful tweaking, whereas an Axe 2 or Kemper can give you the same result in minutes.

IMO Helix is walking a fine line. It could become an Axe/Kemper killer with great amps and FX for a much more attractive price, or it could be the "it's pretty good, but youre better of saving for the big boys if you're serious about going digital" unit.

The next couple of months will be interesting. Right now the early adopters are in the honeymoon phase and humans have a tendency to wear rose tinted glasses when we purchase something new.

If the early adopters are still thrilled about the product come 2016 (Some might even sell their tube gear), then Line 6 has a winner


----------



## A-Branger

I also got 2/5 using my yamaha studio monitors.

But I must say our of the 5, one the difference was really obvious between the tracks, two they had a slight difference (pretty small), and the other two I couldnt tell at all.

Now having say that, I had no idea which one was which. I mean, I knew there was a difference, but I didnt knew if that difference was "bad" and if it was "digital". Hence my guessing and my score

pretty dam close in my books, and I would be way more than happy with it, for a 1.5k$ floor switch unit to be almost the same as the real thing.

In a live situation that would be way more than enough. No-one in the audience is gonna tell appart. Maybe between us ppl, and if IF you happen to have a pretty dam good sound eng in the FOH, even still, I dont really think anyone in the audience would give a crap.

Now for recording, that could be a different game. But, it looks pretty good so far. Would be a matter to dial a good tone. We only need time to ppl who are good at it get some awesome tones and share them

if you dont like it, Im pretty happy to take your units and make a proper disposal for a cheap price


----------



## sevenstringj

Lain said:


> 5/5 at my computer with 600&#8364; speakers.
> 4/5 again with a FRFR setup.
> 4/5 with 130&#8364; studio headphones.
> 
> There are always different soundsamples, maybe that is a reason too.
> 
> I don't even claim to have good ears because i don't but the difference in that test is so freaking obvious.



Except in 2 cases.  You remember which 2 cases you got wrong? Was it the high gain ones? I could hear a diff in clean and low gain tones, just couldn't tell which was which. The high gain ones were much harder for me.

You should do the test several times in a row with the same setup.

It'd help if Line 6 published the frequencies of 0/5, 1/5, 2/5, etc. I'm guessing we'd see a bell curve. It'd also help if they had a little survey to go along with it, about how often you play real amps vs modeling, how often you play at rehearsals/gigs, how often you record real amps vs modeling, etc. Then we could test your hypothesis:



Lain said:


> Maybe you can't hear the difference if you have only played Line6 Spyders and other crap modeling amps your whole life....



Although another big part of it could be what _type_ of music you normally play and listen to. Seems most on here have very little experience with most of the tones and styles on that test.


----------



## The Reverend

I'll say what I think all reasonable people say when it comes to modelers: I've heard people record with industry-standard gear and amps and heard mixes that sounded like the devil is real and has irritable bowel syndrome, and I've heard people use the Pod XT to reach tones that sounded like magic in a mix. I've always seen the tone chase as more of a zone thing: How much closer will these pickups/amps/etc get me to what I'm chasing? There's always something more to be done.

I'm excited for the UI and flexibility. If they've made it easier to tweak, it means that I'll spend less time getting every ounce of blood out of the thing and more time playing. And if it's more flexible that means I can spend all the time I just saved making stupid signal chains for totally unique sounds.


----------



## Dead-Pan

Beyond picking which was which I personally didn't like any of the tones in the challenge.

Also, these were recorded with IRs.


----------



## Lain

sevenstringj said:


> Except in 2 cases.  You remember which 2 cases you got wrong? Was it the high gain ones? I could hear a diff in clean and low gain tones, just couldn't tell which was which. The high gain ones were much harder for me.


Yeah, i think the ones i missed were high gain ones. 



sevenstringj said:


> Although another big part of it could be what _type_ of music you normally play and listen to. Seems most on here have very little experience with most of the tones and styles on that test.


I agree. I play a lot of clean, crispy, bluesy tones.... so maybe there's that.

Don't get me wrong though. I don't want to start some digital vs analog debate or anything. I play mainly digital stuff myself.
I just felt like in that particular test there were quite some differences. Might say something about the unit but might also be an absolute worthless observation in the end.... I don't know. I will judge the unit fully when i test it myself.
They seemed to have lost the all too digital sounding "Pod tone" that they had since like forever, so that's a big plus for the Helix.


----------



## DarrellM5

I got 4/5 4/5 4/5 2/5 3/5 or 84% correct of 25 samples. That being said,they were super close, I guessed on a lot of them, and I'd never be able to tell in a mix.


----------



## DarrellM5

This isn't me. I'm nowhere near this good but here's a great high gain jam.


----------



## sacredl

I usually get 5/5s, listening through Yamaha MSP5s. It takes a bit of knowledge and practice - if you spend a lot of time mixing and hunting frequencies, it's obvious it'll be easier to spot differences between samples.

Does it mean that Helix is not worth it? .... no, people (including me) love modelers for their live mobility, sound possibilities, convenience and versatility in studio. I love my HD500X for rehearsals and gigs. I'll buy a used Helix Rack version for sure, because it's been out for a short time and so far people have gotten awesome tones.

What annoys me is Line 6 tryharding to match to the real deal. It doesn't sound the same (at least what they've shown), but it also doesn't sound worse - it's simply different. Embrace it because it'll still be awesome in its own way, just make it easier to tweak than Pods with their months-taking learning curve. I guess they're doing it to appeal to dadrockers who are tired of maintaining tube amps.


----------



## elkinz

lewis said:


> Does that mean a long overdue modern metal or Djent type video/tone clip to follow?????


 
I may do this in the next week or so  maybe just a short clip with all helix sounds on bass and gat


----------



## elkinz

on a side note, I was playing through my helix last night and it was the *most inspired* id been to play guitar and bass in months. There's nothing like striking a big chord and it sounding massive!

im going to be making a lil demo very soon in a full mix of helix sounds when I get the chance


----------



## Tr3vor

sacredl said:


> What annoys me is Line 6 tryharding to match to the real deal. It doesn't sound the same (at least what they've shown), but it also doesn't sound worse - it's simply different. Embrace it because it'll still be awesome in its own way, just make it easier to tweak than Pods with their months-taking learning curve. I guess they're doing it to appeal to dadrockers who are tired of maintaining tube amps.



Isn't this what every amp modeler tries to do?


----------



## sacredl

Tr3vor said:


> Isn't this what every amp modeler tries to do?



Considering that Line 6 and Fractal both released their original amp simulations, it's doesn't seem so obvious.

While the principle seems clear, it's obvious we're still at least 4-10 years away from sims sounding identically like the real deal. It just seems silly when Line 6 tries so hard and still fails. Helix will still be very useful, like - those sims can sound even better than real counterparts because why not. But for this moment, this kind of marketing with what they have is kind of arrogant.


----------



## Mathemagician

What would I need to run this through a 1x12/2x12 cab?


----------



## A-Branger

and at one point in the future we will be all looking back laughing at how we could drool for "that" hehehe



sacredl said:


> like - those sims can sound even better than real counterparts because why not.



and counting for the "experience/abilities" of some recoding "engineers", mics, acoustic rooms, etc, This units do sound heaps times better than the real deal. Same goes for live sound.


just wondering how in a few years, with a whole new generation of kids growing up with these tools, how they would be, or what they would think is the standard. Like now we see the sims thinking X amp emulates a Fender, Y does a marshall, Z does a Mesa etc etc. Like these kids , for them those names would not mean anything more than a weird name for a patch. Like one day when they are old suddenly someone's dad would show them a Mesa Rectifier. And they would go like WHOOOOOW so THAT's what it means.. *mind blow!* lol


----------



## Tr3vor

sacredl said:


> Considering that Line 6 and Fractal both released their original amp simulations, it's doesn't seem so obvious.
> 
> While the principle seems clear, it's obvious we're still at least 4-10 years away from sims sounding identically like the real deal. It just seems silly when Line 6 tries so hard and still fails. Helix will still be very useful, like - those sims can sound even better than real counterparts because why not. But for this moment, this kind of marketing with what they have is kind of arrogant.



I wouldn't call it arrogant, its just regular old marketing. Sorta like when the early polygonal games in the 90s were considered "realistic". That's laughable by today's standards.

When it takes a trained ear and studio headphones to differentiate between a sim and an amp, I'd say they're close enough to make that statement. According to the stats on the little test thing they got there, they fooled about half the people that took the test.


----------



## big_aug

elkinz said:


> on a side note, I was playing through my helix last night and it was the *most inspired* id been to play guitar and bass in months. There's nothing like striking a big chord and it sounding massive!
> 
> im going to be making a lil demo very soon in a full mix of helix sounds when I get the chance



Dude yes. The amps still sound huge even through a pair of 5" monitors.


----------



## elkinz

big_aug said:


> Dude yes. The amps still sound huge even through a pair of 5" monitors.



funnily enough, that's exactly what im playing through  and a lil pair of ATH-m50s! Sounds monstrous.


----------



## mikah912

I know this isn't a rival to the Gear Page Helix thread, but.....no clips, fellas? None at all from you Helix owners? That ain't right.


----------



## DarrellM5

Mathemagician said:


> What would I need to run this through a 1x12/2x12 cab?



An amp or a power amp.


----------



## big_aug

elkinz said:


> funnily enough, that's exactly what im playing through  and a lil pair of ATH-m50s! Sounds monstrous.



I reaaaaaly like running multi cabs with my headphones. Sounds amazing. I have the ATH-m50x as well.



And sorry guys, I don't have anything but my Android phone. I can't even do the software update for the helix.


----------



## Vrollin

big_aug said:


> I reaaaaaly like running multi cabs with my headphones. Sounds amazing. I have the ATH-m50x as well.
> 
> 
> 
> And sorry guys, I don't have anything but my Android phone. I can't even do the software update for the helix.



Im finding the sound through my 50x's to be hard to dial in without it sounding bulk fizzy and thin, fir high gain stuff, what cabs and mics are you using?


----------



## Mathemagician

DarrellM5 said:


> An amp or a power amp.



Thanks man. Now I gotta go read about differences between amps/power amps and what would be a quality inexpensive one. To the recording subforum!


----------



## big_aug

Vrollin said:


> Im finding the sound through my 50x's to be hard to dial in without it sounding bulk fizzy and thin, fir high gain stuff, what cabs and mics are you using?




Ive been running the Uberschall and the 5150. The Uberschall is my go to with two 4x12 cabs and a ts808 in front. I ....ing love it.


----------



## elkinz

big_aug said:


> Ive been running the Uberschall and the 5150. The Uberschall is my go to with two 4x12 cabs and a ts808 in front. I ....ing love it.



we have very similar taste hahahaha. the 5150 is so good man! ....ing slays! 

What sort of music you playing? Got any clips? 

Ill be making some clips very soon


----------



## Vrollin

Love the uber, alone and with the 2204 for a massive Adam jones sound


----------



## big_aug

elkinz said:


> we have very similar taste hahahaha. the 5150 is so good man! ....ing slays!
> 
> What sort of music you playing? Got any clips?
> 
> Ill be making some clips very soon



If I'm honest I'm just riffing around in Drop A on my Carvin GP7X and really enjoying it. I was never able to get that really huge, low thick sound when I actually had a 60w 6505+ because it was just too ....ing loud to crank it at all. I'm so pleased with the Helix. I tweak a little, riff a little, tweak a little, reset back to my last save, tweak, save, tweak, etc. So easy and enjoyable. I don't have anything to record with and it would be bad even if I did

I was active on the thread over at TGP, but I had to stop reading it. I'm a novice AT BEST (more like clueless) when it comes to dialing in good sounds. I was getting stuff I liked from day one. I couldn't take reading people bitching and moaning that they've put so much effort in for weeks and couldn't get sounds they like. I couldn't really do it with my HD500, but the Helix has just been awesome.

Here's hoping for a nice metal amp pack early in 2016 with some more variety just for the hell of it.


----------



## elkinz

Yeah man, honestly I have zero complaints about Helix so far! Just need a few bug fix tweaks and its sussed 

People like to find things to complain about just for the sake of it sometimes.. 

I set up my exp pedal to do divebombs for me last night and .... me its hilariously fun doing it on riffs!


----------



## Vrollin

elkinz said:


> Yeah man, honestly I have zero complaints about Helix so far! Just need a few bug fix tweaks and its sussed
> 
> People like to find things to complain about just for the sake of it sometimes..
> 
> I set up my exp pedal to do divebombs for me last night and .... me its hilariously fun doing it on riffs!



What block did you use for setting up a dive bomb??


----------



## lewis

as I HD Pro owner, I still think a better route would be getting a kemper and pairing that with the HD Pro.

Again Im not seeing or hearing enough demos or talk about Helix in the capacity I personally will use it in.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Again Im not seeing or hearing enough demos or talk about Helix in the capacity I personally will use it in.



...Then why not wait?


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ...Then why not wait?



The thing got announced in June, nearly 5 months ago....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> The thing got announced in June, nearly 5 months ago....



And? I don't think the POD HD was instant, either. 

Also, found this interesting tidbit during Brendan Small's Reddit AMA...


----------



## Vrollin

lewis said:


> as I HD Pro owner, I still think a better route would be getting a kemper and pairing that with the HD Pro.
> 
> Again Im not seeing or hearing enough demos or talk about Helix in the capacity I personally will use it in.



We get it, you dont want one and like kemper, we get it....


----------



## Elric

sacredl said:


> Considering that Line 6 and Fractal both released their original amp simulations, it's doesn't seem so obvious.
> 
> While the principle seems clear, it's obvious we're still at least 4-10 years away from sims sounding identically like the real deal. It just seems silly when Line 6 tries so hard and still fails. Helix will still be very useful, like - those sims can sound even better than real counterparts because why not. But for this moment, this kind of marketing with what they have is kind of arrogant.


Only L6 is failing; Kemper and Fractal are *crushing it*.  Probably does not make sense to judge the state of the art based on a brand new product that likely still has a few kinks from a company that has not been on the bleeding edge for over a decade.

That said, Helix looks amazeballs and is a great leap forward for L6 to try to get back to the cutting edge. Awesome to see. They were one of the innovators in modeling back in the day. Also, as someone else noted, based on their stats for the Helix challenge they are hardly 'failing' (I was being sarcastic above and using the other poster's own words).


----------



## lewis

Can anyone tell me if the Line 6 Elektrik model is on the helix?


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Elric said:


> Kemper and Fractal are *crushing it*



Tbh I'd be hard pressed to compare the Kemper and anything else when it comes to amp modelling accuracy. I mean yes, it is a VERY high quality, very awesome sounding unit, but there's a MASSIVE difference in how you go about getting those tones.

The Axe-FX and POD/Helix are trying to digitally copy an amp's every part, basically make it so you have that amp that's being modeled; just as a bunch of data, instead of a physical object. They're aiming for "Oh, this amp does X when you set Y control to Z setting, so our unit does that, too"

The Kemper Profiler on the other hand, is a completely different idea - at least to me, it strikes me as more of a "Hey, you like how this amp under these conditions sounds - here's a way you can make sure you ALWAYS have that sound," because we all know tube amps are temperamental and there are ones that sound completely different depending on how you brushed your teeth that morning. They're not aiming to give you a perfect simulation of an amp at all ends of the amp's spectrum, they're aiming to give you a perfect snapshot of the amp's sound at the moment in time you profiled it. The EQ of a profile on a Kemper isn't going to react the same as the EQ of the amp you profiled, and might have completely different bandwidths assigned to the controls

On top of that, the Axe-FX and POD/Helix are meant to be in all-in-one, vs the Kemper's focus on amps, with minimal effects. Sure, they're serviceable and you could use them for a gig, but you don't have near the effects options
of the Fractal and Line 6 units

So all in all, to be completely frank, I feel the comparison between the Kemper and the Helix are a little unfair - sure, they're both digital amp modelers, but they're going about it in a completely different way. The Helix was designed so that each amp in there had all the little quirks the real deal had, the designers outright said that multiple times. The Kemper just takes a "picture" of the amp, so if you want a scooped death metal tone, and super Djenty tone out of the same amp, and have the profiles be completely accurate to the amp's sound, you'd have to set the amp twice and profile it twice, vs just tweaking the profile.


----------



## marcwormjim

lewis said:


> Can anyone tell me if the Line 6 Elektrik model is on the helix?



According to Google; yes:

Helix 1.0 firmware Amp List: 

WhoWatt 100
Soup Pro
Stone Age 185
Tweed Blues Nrm
Tweed Blues Brt
US Small Tweed
US Deluxe Nrm
US Deluxe Vib
US Double Nrm
US Double Vib
Mail Order Twin
Divided Duo
Interstate Zed
Jazz Rivet 120
Essex A-15
Essex A-30
A-30 Fawn Nrm
A-30 Fawn Brt
Mandarin 80
Brit J-45 Nrm
Brit J-45 Brt
Brit Plexi Nrm
Brit Plexi Brt
Brit Plexi Jump
Brit P-75 Nrm
Brit P-75 Brt
Brit J-800
German Mahadeva
German Ubersonic
Cali Rectifire
ANGL Meteor
Solo Lead Clean
Solo Lead Crunch
Solo Lead OD
PV Panama
Line 6 Elektrik
Line 6 Doom
Line 6 Epic
Tuck n' Go
SV Beast Nrm
SV Beast Brt
Cali Bass
Cali 400 Ch1
Cali 400 Ch2
G Cougar 800

Just let me know if you want me to edit my post to highlight the model you're looking for. I don't mind.


----------



## Shask

Zeno said:


> Tbh I'd be hard pressed to compare the Kemper and anything else when it comes to amp modelling accuracy. I mean yes, it is a VERY high quality, very awesome sounding unit, but there's a MASSIVE difference in how you go about getting those tones.
> 
> The Axe-FX and POD/Helix are trying to digitally copy an amp's every part, basically make it so you have that amp that's being modeled; just as a bunch of data, instead of a physical object. They're aiming for "Oh, this amp does X when you set Y control to Z setting, so our unit does that, too"
> 
> The Kemper Profiler on the other hand, is a completely different idea - at least to me, it strikes me as more of a "Hey, you like how this amp under these conditions sounds - here's a way you can make sure you ALWAYS have that sound," because we all know tube amps are temperamental and there are ones that sound completely different depending on how you brushed your teeth that morning. They're not aiming to give you a perfect simulation of an amp at all ends of the amp's spectrum, they're aiming to give you a perfect snapshot of the amp's sound at the moment in time you profiled it. The EQ of a profile on a Kemper isn't going to react the same as the EQ of the amp you profiled, and might have completely different bandwidths assigned to the controls
> 
> On top of that, the Axe-FX and POD/Helix are meant to be in all-in-one, vs the Kemper's focus on amps, with minimal effects. Sure, they're serviceable and you could use them for a gig, but you don't have near the effects options
> of the Fractal and Line 6 units
> 
> So all in all, to be completely frank, I feel the comparison between the Kemper and the Helix are a little unfair - sure, they're both digital amp modelers, but they're going about it in a completely different way. The Helix was designed so that each amp in there had all the little quirks the real deal had, the designers outright said that multiple times. The Kemper just takes a "picture" of the amp, so if you want a scooped death metal tone, and super Djenty tone out of the same amp, and have the profiles be completely accurate to the amp's sound, you'd have to set the amp twice and profile it twice, vs just tweaking the profile.



The Axe-FX and Helix are like a synthesizer. The Kemper is like a sampler.


----------



## lewis

marcwormjim said:


> According to Google; yes:
> 
> Helix 1.0 firmware Amp List:
> 
> WhoWatt 100
> Soup Pro
> Stone Age 185
> Tweed Blues Nrm
> Tweed Blues Brt
> US Small Tweed
> US Deluxe Nrm
> US Deluxe Vib
> US Double Nrm
> US Double Vib
> Mail Order Twin
> Divided Duo
> Interstate Zed
> Jazz Rivet 120
> Essex A-15
> Essex A-30
> A-30 Fawn Nrm
> A-30 Fawn Brt
> Mandarin 80
> Brit J-45 Nrm
> Brit J-45 Brt
> Brit Plexi Nrm
> Brit Plexi Brt
> Brit Plexi Jump
> Brit P-75 Nrm
> Brit P-75 Brt
> Brit J-800
> German Mahadeva
> German Ubersonic
> Cali Rectifire
> ANGL Meteor
> Solo Lead Clean
> Solo Lead Crunch
> Solo Lead OD
> PV Panama
> Line 6 Elektrik
> Line 6 Doom
> Line 6 Epic
> Tuck n' Go
> SV Beast Nrm
> SV Beast Brt
> Cali Bass
> Cali 400 Ch1
> Cali 400 Ch2
> G Cougar 800
> 
> Just let me know if you want me to edit my post to highlight the model you're looking for. I don't mind.



thanks man. Wonder how it sounds. Its incredible on the hd pro


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Shask said:


> The Axe-FX and Helix are like a synthesizer. The Kemper is like a sampler.



EXACTLY - it's like comparing an artists' ultra-realistic painting vs a high-res picture.


----------



## Laimon

Zeno said:


> EXACTLY - it's like comparing an artists' ultra-realistic painting vs a high-res picture.



"Poteito"-"potato". To me all these cogitations sound like a very contrived way to avoid just saying "X is better than Y", because it seems that having opinions nowadays is so rude and unacceptable.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

I can see how it'd come across that way - and I'll be perfectly frank - I have no helix experience, and minimal with the Kemper and Axe II

I just put out my thoughts as they hit me last night - the Axe and Helix are meant to be accurate copies of a set group of amps, reacting as if you were playing the actual amp, whereas the Kemper is just "Hey, I like how this amp sounds, I'm gonna save that for later" - it just doesn't quite seem right, to me, to compare the Kemper to the Helix, as the Kemper isn't an amp modeler, really, not in the same sense where it copies a bunch of amps down to that glob of solder on that one resistor over there; it's a profiler, it's a snapshot of the amp in that moment in time, and is in theory, unlimited as long as you have access to the amps you want to profile, or find a pre-existing profile online of an amp you like.

So, in that respect, I one could say the Kemper is better, as it's not limited to a set group of amps programmed in by the designers

But that's not what the Helix is trying to achieve - it's going for "Here is a ultra-realistic simulation of these amplifiers that react just like the real deal does" and from what I've heard, it does that pretty dang well. The Kemper's a different beast, so in my opinion, this should be between the Helix and Fractal units

But I'll just stop, I'm arguably getting as annoying as a few other people in this thread at this point - my point has been clarified as best I can, no need to repeat myself further


----------



## NovaLion

People are drawing a lot of parallels between the Helix and the Axe FX. I have very, very limited experience with the latter, but doesn't the Axe FX operate as sort of a "complete, all in one" package, to include effects? Does the Helix work to do this as well?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

NovaLion said:


> Does the Helix work to do this as well?



It's been advertised as that to hell and back.


----------



## slapnutz

Not a metal review but this dude does very indepth reviews. Good video if you wanna see all the ins and outs of the unit.


----------



## elkinz

Vrollin said:


> What block did you use for setting up a dive bomb??



the pitch shifter  Set it up so when the exp pedal is rolled back it drops 2 octaves gradually as I move. Was actually surprisingly easy to set up


----------



## lewis

elkinz said:


> the pitch shifter  Set it up so when the exp pedal is rolled back it drops 2 octaves gradually as I move. Was actually surprisingly easy to set up



Exactly what I do on the HD Pro. Sounds fantastic. I had the brand new Digitech Whammy DT. I sold it once I sorted the HD Pro to do the divebomb


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

Zeno said:


> EXACTLY - it's like comparing an artists' ultra-realistic painting vs a high-res picture.



Now _there's_ a faulty analogy if I ever heard one.


----------



## elkinz

lewis said:


> Exactly what I do on the HD Pro. Sounds fantastic. I had the brand new Digitech Whammy DT. I sold it once I sorted the HD Pro to do the divebomb



I couldn't stop laughing the first time I did it. Sounded so hilariously awesome!


----------



## lewis

elkinz said:


> I couldn't stop laughing the first time I did it. Sounded so hilariously awesome!



Haha it really does.

I use Drop G#2 open for some songs, and going doing 2 octaves on this was amazing and like you say hilarious haha.


----------



## elkinz

lewis said:


> Haha it really does.
> 
> I use Drop G#2 open for some songs, and going doing 2 octaves on this was amazing and like you say hilarious haha.



So I set up the drop pitch on my bass patch at band practice last night, and right before breakdowns or heavy parts id drop it down and come back up real fast into the heavy part and it sounded SO ....ING COOL MAN!! hahahahaha

also I managed to get a sick bass tone last night with the GK bass amp as the clean and the 5150 distorting the high end of the bass. Sounded so nice.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Mine finally shipped and should be here Friday! Can't wait. I'll make sure to post lots of clips.


----------



## lewis

Zeno said:


> Tbh I'd be hard pressed to compare the Kemper and anything else when it comes to amp modelling accuracy. I mean yes, it is a VERY high quality, very awesome sounding unit, but there's a MASSIVE difference in how you go about getting those tones.
> 
> The Axe-FX and POD/Helix are trying to digitally copy an amp's every part, basically make it so you have that amp that's being modeled; just as a bunch of data, instead of a physical object. They're aiming for "Oh, this amp does X when you set Y control to Z setting, so our unit does that, too"
> 
> The Kemper Profiler on the other hand, is a completely different idea - at least to me, it strikes me as more of a "Hey, you like how this amp under these conditions sounds - here's a way you can make sure you ALWAYS have that sound," because we all know tube amps are temperamental and there are ones that sound completely different depending on how you brushed your teeth that morning. They're not aiming to give you a perfect simulation of an amp at all ends of the amp's spectrum, they're aiming to give you a perfect snapshot of the amp's sound at the moment in time you profiled it. The EQ of a profile on a Kemper isn't going to react the same as the EQ of the amp you profiled, and might have completely different bandwidths assigned to the controls
> 
> On top of that, the Axe-FX and POD/Helix are meant to be in all-in-one, vs the Kemper's focus on amps, with minimal effects. Sure, they're serviceable and you could use them for a gig, but you don't have near the effects options
> of the Fractal and Line 6 units
> 
> So all in all, to be completely frank, I feel the comparison between the Kemper and the Helix are a little unfair - sure, they're both digital amp modelers, but they're going about it in a completely different way. The Helix was designed so that each amp in there had all the little quirks the real deal had, the designers outright said that multiple times. The Kemper just takes a "picture" of the amp, so if you want a scooped death metal tone, and super Djenty tone out of the same amp, and have the profiles be completely accurate to the amp's sound, you'd have to set the amp twice and profile it twice, vs just tweaking the profile.



in a nutshell for me. Nicely put, and regards to the lack of effects, thats why Im keeping my HD Pro to pair with it. Octoverb + Ping pong delay lead tone FTW


----------



## Ericjutsu

I don't understand why Kemper doesn't allow for dual signal paths. I'd be all over it if it did.


----------



## lewis

Ericjutsu said:


> I don't understand why Kemper doesn't allow for dual signal paths. I'd be all over it if it did.



Just buy 2 kempers and connect them hahaha.


----------



## metal_sam14

Traded my Kemper for a Helix, it should hopefully be here in a few days, can't wait!


----------



## lewis

metal_sam14 said:


> *Traded my Kemper for a Helix*, it should hopefully be here in a few days, can't wait!



woah commitment. What didnt you like about the Kemper?


----------



## metal_sam14

lewis said:


> woah commitment. What didnt you like about the Kemper?



I loved my Kemper, it sounded amazing but I needed a few things from it that were going to be expensive or cumbersome to implement. 

I needed a looper, which I could have got the the kemper footswitch but that was another 600 odd dollars trying to get one to australia. The toaster was also not the most convenient of shapes and I was after a more streamlined rig. Now with the helix my entire live rig is just a guitar, my pedalboard and a cab. so simple to set up (great if you are playing in the middle of a bill with a short set). and I can now do cool things like send the looper to its own dedicated output for looping clean parts, insert analogue pedals using the FX loops, or even go full 4 cable method if I go back to an amp in the future. The helix is also a USB interface with easy reamping built in, this is massive for me as the kemper has nothing like this and I needed to buy more gear (DI, reamp box etc) to be able to reamp. 

The kemper was a great bit of kit, but the helix frees me up to do so much more.


----------



## Tr3vor

Ericjutsu said:


> Mine finally shipped and should be here Friday! Can't wait. I'll make sure to post lots of clips.



Sweet, I'd love to hear more clips. There aren't too many out there really. Hopefully you do some modern metal type sounds, those are in very short supply. 

All this Kemper wanking in a Helix thread is amusing. I mean, the thing is more comparable to an AxeFX than a Kemper....


----------



## lewis

metal_sam14 said:


> I loved my Kemper, it sounded amazing but I needed a few things from it that were going to be expensive or cumbersome to implement.
> 
> I needed a looper, which I could have got the the kemper footswitch but that was another 600 odd dollars trying to get one to australia. The toaster was also not the most convenient of shapes and I was after a more streamlined rig. Now with the helix my entire live rig is just a guitar, my pedalboard and a cab. so simple to set up (great if you are playing in the middle of a bill with a short set). and I can now do cool things like send the looper to its own dedicated output for looping clean parts, insert analogue pedals using the FX loops, or even go full 4 cable method if I go back to an amp in the future. The helix is also a USB interface with easy reamping built in, this is massive for me as the kemper has nothing like this and I needed to buy more gear (DI, reamp box etc) to be able to reamp.
> 
> The kemper was a great bit of kit, but the helix frees me up to do so much more.



ah thats fair enough. In that situation it does make more sense. Im hoping to get around some of these issues by keeping my HD Pro rack to partner with a Kemper when I get around to finally getting one. Thankfully I dont need a looper etc.

The lack of re amp is a little sh1t though, I didnt know that.


----------



## metal_sam14

lewis said:


> ah thats fair enough. In that situation it does make more sense. Im hoping to get around some of these issues by keeping my HD Pro rack to partner with a Kemper when I get around to finally getting one. Thankfully I dont need a looper etc.
> 
> The lack of re amp is a little sh1t though, I didnt know that.



It's not so much the "lack of reamp" with the kemper, its more that the kemper has no USB interface functionality, which is fine if you have an external one but I love the idea of having one unit that does it all, less gear to sit around on my desk and more options for me when tracking projects. I am a creature of convenience, and the Helix will make my entire setup (studio & live) extremely simple.


----------



## mdeeRocks

lewis said:


> ah thats fair enough. In that situation it does make more sense. Im hoping to get around some of these issues by keeping my HD Pro rack to partner with a Kemper when I get around to finally getting one. Thankfully I dont need a looper etc.
> 
> The lack of re amp is a little sh1t though, I didnt know that.


reamping in kemper is as easy as plugging an SPDIF cable into your interface and Kemper itself and changing one setting using a knob. One channel is clean signal, the other is amp signal.

On topic, Helix looks like nice piece of gear.


----------



## Ericjutsu

man this wait is intense. This is going to be a long few days. I'm definitely going to be making tone tests with it. Especially in a modern metal context. I'll have to make a comparison with the Pod HD as well.


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

I'm actually shocked with the lack of opinions/demos about this unit in here...


----------



## jbealsmusic

KristapsCoCoo said:


> I'm actually shocked with the lack of opinions/demos about this unit in here...


Hahaa... 46 pages worth of opinions isn't enough? lol jk

I think it has a lot to do with Line 6 not being able to keep up with demand. Dealers are selling out of units before Line 6 can even get them to the distributors, let alone to the dealers. Helix is a massive success, so far. We'll know more after the new year. That is likely when we'll start to see used ones cropping up. Of course, that depends whether or not people are happy enough to keep them.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Well it's probably 40 or so pages of a lot of conjecture, not a whole lot of posts in here are from people that have actually used the unit, myself included, along with lots of "It's cool but I'mma keep my Axe FX/Kemper"


----------



## Fretless

Zeno said:


> Well it's probably 40 or so pages of a lot of conjecture, not a whole lot of posts in here are from people that have actually used the unit, myself included, along with lots of "It's cool but I'mma keep my Axe FX/Kemper"



Yeah, the thread kind of died down just as people were starting to get their hands on the units.


----------



## Laimon

Fretless said:


> Yeah, the thread kind of died down just as people were starting to get their hands on the units.



So true.
I myself refrained from sharing my impressions because I know way too well how the confrontation with the fanboys goes. Totally not worth it.
But ok, let me spill the beans.
So, provided that all that follows is IMO, the Helix sucks. Big time - again IMO.
I had bought it as an fx/controller complement for my KPA - I actually have a bunch of Strymon effects that I was hoping to replace for a simpler setup to deal with. The effects were actually not bad: choruses, delays and reverbs were very nice; the rest was still very professional, on par with the KPA, give or take. But it was clear to me after two evenings and numerous A/Bs that my Strymons were going nowhere.
So, for what I wanted my decision could have been very well taken without despising the unit at all. But then I tried the amp sims.
Simply put - they are really bad. I don't wanna repeat the whole disclaimer - I have seen enough of these units to know my way around them. I did not pick the wrong IR (I was using a real cab, Mesa Recto 1x12 with v30, that typically sounds amazing with anything I plug in it), I did not pick the wrong model (pre only as I was trying with two different external poweramps - I even tried full amp models as the pre only models were sucking, but no, still sucked), I tweaked all parameters (as if you normally have to set the freaking sag to get a real amp to sound good...)...but the result was invariant. Depending on the amp model, the sound was either mushy and muffled, or edgy and spikey. It just made it clearer than ever how good the KPA is.
So this is why the thread is not growing: the Helix is a big flop. Maybe not in sales, for now, but just look at TGP: people are throwing themselves about discussing the best IRs, hi cuts/low cuts, hiding crossover distortions...they seem deep in the closet, to me. They're trying hard to give their new shiny toy a chance, but deep down they're not liking it. I never had to do anything like that with the Kemper: I got it, browsed the profiles, found an EVH 5150, tweaked eq knobs, and it sounded fantastic. So please don't tell me that such a machine needs to be tweaked for days to find a decent sound.

Again, this is all IMO, of course ;-)


----------



## mikah912

Nothing wrong with that. Who can fault firsthand impressions?

That being said, I've heard more than enough direct clips to the point where I wouldn't agree with your assessment. I even had a guy with a KPA and Helix reamp some DIs on both for me, and I thought they sounded comparable. I wanted to go to the Helix event at my local Guitar Center, but had basketball coaching to do that same night. 

THAT BEING SAID....

I think it's full of potential, but I've heard of too many show-stopping freezes and bugs, even with the latest firmware (1.03), for me to be comfortable purchasing it right now. I also need to see Line 6's commitment to NEW amp models, which is as of yet not demonstrated. I don't expect them to feature 200+ amp channels like Fractal, but the same 38 that have been circling around for quite some time isn't sufficient either. There are 8-10 high gain and boutique amp models that they could add that would cover the currently missing territory. 

Finally, I'm not going to nab one for $1500. Either I get it with a 20 percent off coupon next year when supply is more plentiful or nab one for $1100-$1200 from a motivated seller around that same time. Or I pass on it altogether and look up an AX8 or another Atomic Amplifire.


----------



## Laimon

mikah912 said:


> Nothing wrong with that. Who can fault firsthand impressions?
> 
> That being said, I've heard more than enough direct clips to the point where I wouldn't agree with your assessment. I even had a guy with a KPA and Helix reamp some DIs on both for me, and I thought they sounded comparable. I wanted to go to the Helix event at my local Guitar Center, but had basketball coaching to do that same night.
> 
> THAT BEING SAID....
> 
> I think it's full of potential, but I've heard of too many show-stopping freezes and bugs, even with the latest firmware (1.03), for me to be comfortable purchasing it right now. I also need to see Line 6's commitment to NEW amp models, which is as of yet not demonstrated. I don't expect them to feature 200+ amp channels like Fractal, but the same 38 that have been circling around for quite some time isn't sufficient either. There are 8-10 high gain and boutique amp models that they could add that would cover the currently missing territory.
> 
> Finally, I'm not going to nab one for $1500. Either I get it with a 20 percent off coupon next year when supply is more plentiful or nab one for $1100-$1200 from a motivated seller around that same time. Or I pass on it altogether and look up an AX8 or another Atomic Amplifire.



Well, if I may, do yourself a favor, and get a KPA instead (or whatever).
Clips may seem comparable, but:
a) I actually hear these characters in most clips I heard (https://youtu.be/MBVT0kDO4n4?t=4m22s for hearing the way too sharp edge of breakup, https://youtu.be/EVOSzWJiNBg?t=43s for stiff and plasticky distortion, the beginning of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZurmlRlUM for muffled tone)
b) people have recorded great albums even with the first POD, we get that. And we might even enjoy those albums. But listening is different from playing. Those people might get along well with the spikes and the muffledness - I didn't. And many people actually don't, but GAS-induced denial makes us think "come on, they sound so similar!" in front of recorded clips...then when we're playing face to face with that sound we remember why we should have been less optimistic. Trust me, we're nowhere near as sensitive to the amp's tone shades while listening as to while playing it.

Really, I am not doing a crusade against the Helix. If people like it, good for them! I honestly didn't even a little bit, and I don't see people being nearly as crazy about it as they were before it was actually released.
So you can either follow or discard my suggestions, no worries. But do not trust clip comparisons, they're really hardly any indication of how you'll like it in the end.


----------



## mikah912

As I said, I did have someone reamp my actual DI that I created with Helix, and the same with a comparable Kemper setting. They were different, but comparable.

I'm considering a used Kemper as well. If I see one dip below $1500....maybe!


----------



## Laimon

mikah912 said:


> As I said, I did have someone reamp my actual DI that I created with Helix, and the same with a comparable Kemper setting. They were different, but comparable.
> 
> I'm considering a used Kemper as well. If I see one dip below $1500....maybe!



Ah, sorry, I had understood that you had your DI reamped for both machines by somebody else! Of course, if you tried in real life and you like it - nothing against that.


----------



## mikah912

Laimon said:


> Ah, sorry, I had understood that you had your DI reamped for both machines by somebody else! Of course, if you tried in real life and you like it - nothing against that.



No, you understood right. I had _someone else_ who owned both machines reamp a DI I made.


----------



## metal_sam14

Mine just turned up in the post, will post some impressions when I get off work. I have it set up on my desk though and I am playing with it between calls, it is stupidly easy to use, line 6 nailed the interface side of things.


----------



## Ericjutsu

man I can't wait! I hope I'm not horribly disappointed.


----------



## Fretless

Laimon said:


> Well, if I may, do yourself a favor, and get a KPA instead (or whatever).



I second this statement. I was much like others here, dodging between new pieces of hardware just hoping that one of em would work out. Got a Kemper awhile ago, and have never been happier. I still try to give the new stuff a whirl, and give it a fair chance, but if it sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, chances are it's a duck... or someone with extreme mental illness.


----------



## big_aug

Had mine for a few weeks. Still love it.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Just got mine today. Only played with it an hour though because of work but when I get home I'm playing the .... out of it. So far I love it!


----------



## metal_sam14

Dialed in some patches last night, still getting my head around the options available in the unit but I got some sweet 5150 sounds by importing some of my mesa cab impulses via the IR loader. I am impressed to far.


----------



## metal_sam14

Here is a little high gain sample: https://soundcloud.com/sam14-1/line-6-helix-test-crossing-the-barrier


----------



## elkinz

iv had mine a month and a half ish now. Im super stoked with it, its solid, easy to use, and I get fantastic sounds out of it. I got a wicked bass tone, and am shaping guitar sounds to my liking but I don't think its a _flop_ by any means. And hey, its being updated all the time now, almost on version 1.04, so with more updates - comes better helix hopefully! 

Im really enjoying mine


----------



## elkinz

my buddy and I are planning on doing a video where we both play on M80m's through my helix and his axe fx II and pan them L/R so people can hear how each sounds.


----------



## Ericjutsu

elkinz said:


> my buddy and I are planning on doing a video where we both play on M80m's through my helix and his axe fx II and pan them L/R so people can hear how each sounds.




Please do!

Also here is an Engl tone I just made

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/helix-engl-tone[/SC]


----------



## elkinz

alright, so last night me and my buddy hooked up my helix and his axe fx - and did a comparison. 

We ran 2 Ibanez M80M's into each unit. Ran the same amp sims, on the same settings, with the same third party IR.

And honestly, they were on par! They both kicked ASS! 

We are slowly working on a lil vid to show you guys what they sound like together in a song


----------



## Ericjutsu

elkinz said:


> alright, so last night me and my buddy hooked up my helix and his axe fx - and did a comparison.
> 
> We ran 2 Ibanez M80M's into each unit. Ran the same amp sims, on the same settings, with the same third party IR.
> 
> And honestly, they were on par! They both kicked ASS!
> 
> We are slowly working on a lil vid to show you guys what they sound like together in a song


Was it the axe fx 2? Also which amps amd IRs did you use? Also post clips immediately !


----------



## Kristianx510

Just picked up my helix last night. Absolutely blown away. Took it straight to band practice and had it running in no time and it was the best tone I've ever had.


----------



## big_aug

Still love mine months later. Sounds great every time I turn it on.


----------



## Vrollin

Just reading that there is a new large update on the way, containing a new amp with its three channels and 9 more effects to play with. Should be cool!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Vrollin said:


> Just reading that there is a new large update on the way, containing a new amp with its three channels and 9 more effects to play with. Should be cool!!



If Line 6 does this often, then they fore sure have a winner.


----------



## Vrollin

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If Line 6 does this often, then they fore sure have a winner.



Agreed, especially if the updates remain free! Im just crossing my fingers for switchless wah....


----------



## Ericjutsu

i want dimension chorus dammit!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ericjutsu said:


> i want dimension chorus dammit!



The POD HD has one. The Helix doesn't?


----------



## Ericjutsu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The POD HD has one. The Helix doesn't?



nope. The update isn't including it either.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

I keep reading that the new amp model is probably going to be Bogner XTC. At least that is the consensus over at the line 6 helix forum. 

Line 6 has also stated that the Mesa Mark IV is also at the top of their priority list, but that this amp in the up-coming update is not the Mesa Mark IV. Which is why most agree it will probably be the Bogner XTC.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Copy and pasted from GearPage.net thread: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/line6-helix.1586637/page-923#post-21275772
_
Available later today:_

*Helix Firmware v1.06.0 Release Notes*

*Helix v1.06.0* is a firmware update that includes new models, features, fixes, stability improvements, and optimizations. It is highly recommended that all Helix users perform this update!

It is also recommended that you back up your current presets by using the _Helix_ application to create a preset bundle, allowing you to install new presets as part of the update process.

The easiest way to perform the update process is by installing the latest version of _Line 6 Updater_. Once you've connected Helix to your computer via its USB port (hubs are not supported), _Line 6 Updater_ will recognize the unit and take you through the update process. Both the _Helix_ application and _Line 6 Updater_ may be downloaded here: Line 6 Software

*New Amp Models*


Matchstick Ch1, based on* Channel 1 of the MatchlessTM DC30
Matchstick Ch2, based on* Channel 2 of the MatchlessTM DC30
Matchstick Jump, based on* jumping Channels 1 and 2 of the MatchlessTM DC30
*New Effects Models*


Distortion > *Teemah!* (Mono, Stereo), based on* the Paul Cochrane Timmy® Overdrive
Distortion > *KWB* (Mono, Stereo), based on* the Benadrian Kowloon Walled Bunny Distortion
Distortion > *Bitcrusher* (Mono, Stereo)
Modulation > *Dynamix Flanger* (Mono, Stereo)
Modulation > *Deluxe Phaser* (Mono, Stereo)
Modulation > *Tremolo* (Mono) and *Tremolo/Autopan* (Stereo), based on* the BOSS® PN-2
Pitch/Synth > *Simple Pitch* (Mono, Stereo)
Pitch/Synth > *Dual Pitch* (Mono, Stereo)
Filter > *Autofilter* (Mono, Stereo)
_* All product names are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with Line 6._

*New Features*


_Swap Footswitch Assignments_&#8212;This feature makes organizing Stomp footswitch mode a lot easier, especially when footswitches have multiple-assigned items or custom labels/LED ring colors. *Touch and hold (but don&#8217;t press) any two stomp mode footswitches for one second.* A dialog box appears, asking if you want to swap all assignments. *Press Knob 6 (OK)*
When touch-holding a footswitch to invoke Quick Footswitch Assign (or touch holding two footswitches to swap their assignments), the dialog panel automatically closes after four seconds
*Bug Fixes*


In rare cases, assigning a parameter to a footswitch may briefly display the parameter&#8217;s value above Knob 1 (Parameter) on the Controller Assign page _&#8212;FIXED_
After returning to a preset while the looper is active, the Looper block and/or half-speed footswitch&#8217;s LED may not properly reflect its state(s) _&#8212;FIXED_
In some cases, a Command Center > CC Toggle footswitch&#8217;s LED may not properly reflect its state _&#8212;FIXED_
Helix may fail to respond when receiving a huge string of MIDI PC messages while on the Setlist view _&#8212;FIXED_
After customizing the name of an auto-assigned EXP 1 block (Wah or Pitch Wham), the Volume Pedal may become unassigned _&#8212;FIXED_
General stability improvements
Other minor bug fixes and optimizations
*Other Improvements*


When selecting banks by pressing FS1 (BANK UP) or FS7 (BANK DOWN), FS6 now appears as CANCEL, letting you dismiss bank queue without changing footswitch modes
Expression Pedal 2 and 3 can now adjust values in Pedal Edit mode
Factory presets leveled
Additional improvements made to the factory preset bundle
*Resetting Helix Globals / Loading the Newest Factory Presets*

*IMPORTANT! This procedure will completely overwrite all existing presets and setlists, as well as clear all user IRs and reset all global settings! Back up your presets and IRs before proceeding!*


*Turn off Helix.*
*While holding footswitches 9 and 10 (middle two switches on the bottom row), turn on Helix. *Wait for the message &#8220;Will reset Globals and restore stock Presets, Setlists and IRs&#8230;&#8221; to appear and let go.
*Known Issues*


Minor pops and clicks may be present when Helix is streaming audio from a Mac® running OS X 10.11 (El Capitan)
Minor pops and clicks may be present when Helix is streaming audio from an iOS® device running iOS 9.1 or 9.2 with Apple® Camera Kit
Importing a Helix bundle while streaming audio over USB may cause the _Helix_ application to disconnect


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Matchless? That came out of nowhere. 

Kinda bummed because an XTC would have sounded badass.


----------



## Vrollin

No switchless wah  cmon its got to be the easiest thing to set up, as soon as the expression pedal on board reads a paramater change engage the wah block, bypas when returned to fully open.....


----------



## Ericjutsu

Anyone else jave an opinion on them now that's its been?a few months?


----------



## Vrollin

Ericjutsu said:


> Anyone else jave an opinion on them now that's its been?a few months?



Go back about halfway through this thread and start reading. I dont know what else there is to be said about them that hasnt been covered and repeated in this thread....?


----------



## Dead-Pan

I would like to hear some killer metal sounds from it.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Vrollin said:


> Go back about halfway through this thread and start reading. I dont know what else there is to be said about them that hasnt been covered and repeated in this thread....?



Well, I'm also in the same boat as Ericjutsu. When I asked way back about good metal demos, some people said it was an unfair question as Helix was not officially announced back then. So, here I am asking again, like 3-4 months later:

*1. How good are the metal amps, 5150, Mesa Rec, etc.? I'd also be interested in non-metal amps, say for 80's metal, prog, or fusion tones.

2. How does the sound AND the feel of the amps compare to Kemper, AxeFX?

3. Any demos by Ola, Fluff, or Merrow yet?*

Thanks.


----------



## Mathemagician

There's like one decent video on YouTube for metal, I think the guy was selling some presets or whatever idk, but it was pretty solid. Personally I don't care when Ola does a demo. He seems like the nicest guy in the world but he makes everything sound exactly the same to me.


----------



## Masoo2

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> 3. Any demos by Ola, Fluff, or Merrow yet?[/B]
> 
> Thanks.



Might not be what you are looking for, but John Browne's latest three posts on soundcloud are all Helix AFAIK

https://soundcloud.com/bearnoizestudio


----------



## mikah912

I got a quick drop chug Helix demo that's almost finished. Just needs bass, but I'm sick as a dog right now. I'll try to bang it out later tonight.

For the record, I LOVE it for metal. Even the default cabs are pretty good if you move the mics back and change the SM57 on one or both cabs to a Heil PR30. I also use it with Ownhammer Bogner EVH Celestion and Orange V30+Scumback 75 IRs.


----------



## big_aug

Love mine and all I play is metal. So easy to get a a solid sound. I love downloading other people's stuff off the custom tone thing and tweaking them. Amazing to see what people are coming up with


----------



## mikah912

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/helixmetal

That's the latest metal clip. Just two tracks of guitar - mostly the 5150 with the onboard Uberkab V30 and T75 speakers - and a bass. I mixed a little of an Uberschall in with Ownhammers, but that's like 20 percent of the guitar tone, if that. Sorry for any sloppiness, but I am still kicking this really bad cold. Hope you all enjoy.


----------



## Djentliman

There's this  His tone sounds amazing. I'm seriously considering getting one of these now. Especially with the Zzounds payment plans!


----------



## Dead-Pan

Last 2 posts, good sounds, not great. IMO.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Vrollin said:


> No switchless wah  cmon its got to be the easiest thing to set up, as soon as the expression pedal on board reads a paramater change engage the wah block, bypas when returned to fully open.....



It's on Ideascale. Please vote it up!

Line 6 Ideas - by IdeaScale


----------



## jsmalleus

Seems the rack pre-order that was supposed to ship today got pushed back to 4/7  Might be a while before we get to join in the fun. I'd rather have a solid unit then than a rushed one now, but damn, been looking forward to finally trying the helix out.


----------



## Blasphemer

Strongly considering a Helix, mainly to use in a 4cm setup. I have couple questions:

Is there any gap in audio when switching presets/patches? The POD HD had this, and it would be a bit of a dealbreaker for me.
Is there a spillover option when changing patches? IE, when you have a preset with delay, then switch to one without, does the delay keep going?


----------



## Vrollin

Blasphemer said:


> Strongly considering a Helix, mainly to use in a 4cm setup. I have couple questions:
> 
> Is there any gap in audio when switching presets/patches? The POD HD had this, and it would be a bit of a dealbreaker for me.
> Is there a spillover option when changing patches? IE, when you have a preset with delay, then switch to one without, does the delay keep going?



Unfortunately yes there is some gap when switching patches, however with the amount of processing power on this you can run two amps and have switches activate multiple functions on the one patch to avoid this.
No spill over either between patches.


----------



## Rachmaninoff

Blasphemer said:


> Is there any gap in audio when switching presets/patches? The POD HD had this, and it would be a bit of a dealbreaker for me.



Yes, there's a gap, just like the POD HD, no improvements.




Blasphemer said:


> Is there a spillover option when changing patches? IE, when you have a preset with delay, then switch to one without, does the delay keep going?



No spillover option. When you change the patch, your delay is simply cut off. Again, no improvements from the POD HD.


----------



## mikah912

"No improvements" is ridiculous. 

You can do so much with parallel amps, paths and FX within a single patch that I find this to be a non-issue. You could have a clean/crunch/lead setup with switchable delay in a single patch. No lag. Spillover between every switch.


----------



## Hedon09

[SC]http://soundcloud.com/hedon09/160220-helix-rec-test[/SC]

Have my Helix for 3 Days now. Immediately updated to the newest Firmware, love the Tones i'm getting. Stock Cabs are better than with the Pod Hd Series. Took a first shot with 3rd-Party-Impulses (Rosen Modern 3) and the Cali Rectifire today. This is what happened


----------



## Blasphemer

EDIT: Nevermind. Found what I was asking tucked away in some fine-ish print. Thinking the Helix in pedal mode instead of preset mode is what I'm looking for.


----------



## Dead-Pan

Hedon09 said:


> [SC]http://soundcloud.com/hedon09/160220-helix-rec-test[/SC]
> 
> Have my Helix for 3 Days now. Immediately updated to the newest Firmware, love the Tones i'm getting. Stock Cabs are better than with the Pod Hd Series. Took a first shot with 3rd-Party-Impulses (Rosen Modern 3) and the Cali Rectifire today. This is what happened



I found this to be very good sounding and realistic. Curious, where do you have the low pass filter set? In general I have found the Helix clips either very bright or too dull. This is right on the edge, just a tad dull for me but really good. Thanks for posting!


----------



## Ps43203

Why don't any of these companies get the spill over effect??? It boggles my mind that nobody get's that. Digitech did it 25 years ago, not even the axe-fx ii does spillover effects without patch editing. That and gaps between presets, these have been MAJOR complaints forever. Fix it already Line 6!


----------



## Hedon09

the ir low pass itself sit's at 14,5kHz. in reaper i have a low pass set to 11khz but toggling it on/of only made a very subtle difference


----------



## mikah912

Ps43203 said:


> Why don't any of these companies get the spill over effect??? It boggles my mind that nobody get's that. Digitech did it 25 years ago, not even the axe-fx ii does spillover effects without patch editing. That and gaps between presets, these have been MAJOR complaints forever. Fix it already Line 6!



With the ability to do parallel paths within a preset, I don't see this being an issue for Fractal or Line 6. You can have spillover right now.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Ps43203 said:


> Why don't any of these companies get the spill over effect??? It boggles my mind that nobody get's that. Digitech did it 25 years ago, not even the axe-fx ii does spillover effects without patch editing. That and gaps between presets, these have been MAJOR complaints forever. Fix it already Line 6!


Think about itto have two presets spill over into one another, both need to be active at the same time. That means each preset can use no more than 50% of available DSP resources. And that means either you get half the number of blocks or half the sound quality. Since one can create multiple tones within a preset and switch between them with spillover and delay (we include template presets that already do this), you're not going to convince many people to give up half their blocks or half their sound quality.

Throwing more DSP at the problem doesn't solve anything either, because people will always prefer that extra DSP be used to make even better-sounding modelsand/or more of 'em. Almost no one wants to dedicate HALF their horsepower _just_ for preset spillover.

That said, we have some stuff comin' in the next few months.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Digital Igloo said:


> That said, we have some stuff comin' in the next few months.



Like Switchless Wah mode!? Pretty pleeeeeeaaaase!!!????


----------



## Rachmaninoff

mikah912 said:


> "No improvements" is ridiculous.
> 
> You can do so much with parallel amps, paths and FX within a single patch that I find this to be a non-issue. You could have a clean/crunch/lead setup with switchable delay in a single patch. No lag. Spillover between every switch.



Yep, you can do all that with the HD500X.


----------



## Hedon09

i own both, helix and hd500x. there is a major improvement in the overall amp modelling tone and also the cabs. i think they sound less processed than they did with the hd500x. though i tend to using my own impulse responses which is another very cool improvement as far as i'm concerned. no more dialing out unwanted frequencies of muffled cabinets. i don't need as much effect blocks to get a realistic sounding patch than i used to with the pod hd500x.


----------



## Jugghaid

Mine is on the truck to be delivered today. I'll run it into my protools rig as well as 4C method through some of my amps that I use live. (Egnater Vengeance and HK Grandmeister 36) I'm really curious how this will sound live with a real tube amp vs. in the studio direct.

I hope to ditch the TC G-system (which I still love btw as an effects unit/midi switcher, just not in 4C) if this works out right.

I'm thinking integrating helix with the Grandmeister (or maybe eventually a Triamp III) could be killer. All the tube tones from that amp + the ability to add models/stompboxes could be staggering.


----------



## PBGas

jsmalleus said:


> Seems the rack pre-order that was supposed to ship today got pushed back to 4/7  Might be a while before we get to join in the fun. I'd rather have a solid unit then than a rushed one now, but damn, been looking forward to finally trying the helix out.



Wow...I know they have been really good with letting folks know about orders, etc but I am really glad I abandoned this one. I had a rack on order back in Oct and had made some solid $$$ on the gear I sold. I would have still been waiting until now? No thanks. Glad I went with what I currently have. 

I may look into one of these next fall when hopefully there will be some actual supply on them. Probably still won't have much luck getting one up here. Oh well....no worries, not hurting for tones right now at all. Looking forward to what they add to the unit in the future.


----------



## Vrollin

MASS DEFECT said:


> Like Switchless Wah mode!? Pretty pleeeeeeaaaase!!!????



Listen to this man! Bad Horsie 2 wah please!


----------



## Beron

I picked one today and made a quick reamping with the mesa and stock cabs.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/dark-neutron/substance-mix[/SC]


----------



## jsmalleus

PBGas said:


> Wow...I know they have been really good with letting folks know about orders, etc but I am really glad I abandoned this one. I had a rack on order back in Oct and had made some solid $$$ on the gear I sold. I would have still been waiting until now? No thanks. Glad I went with what I currently have.
> 
> I may look into one of these next fall when hopefully there will be some actual supply on them. Probably still won't have much luck getting one up here. Oh well....no worries, not hurting for tones right now at all. Looking forward to what they add to the unit in the future.



Yeah, I was pretty sad when they pushed it back to 4/7, but then like a day later the expected ship date changed again to sometime in March, then I got a shipping notice for the helix the other day and it arrived yesterday  The foot controller I pre-ordered a little more recently and that is still m.i.a., so I suspect they're just filling the orders depending on what they have and the order date.

I only spent a couple hours with it last night, but I'm getting used to it and already getting some pretty nice tones out of it. Being able to utilize third party IRs is tremendously helpful in that.


----------



## Hedon09

i took some time and shot IRs of my two 212 cabinets and it was really worth the work. the recto model into my IRs sounds pretty much the same as my mini recto clone into the real cabs. actually tis was easy to do and got me better results than i had expected


----------



## GunpointMetal

Rachmaninoff said:


> Yep, you can do all that with the HD500X.



No, you can't. 
At least not with the options still available to have a drive or a few gates. I have the X. I push it to DSP with nothing but two full amp models and maybe a gate and overdrive. If you split your amps and front end effects and cabs/loop effects between the DSP paths on HELIX, you can literally run almost two complete signal paths that either of which would probably tank the 500X's DSP. 

OTOH, I completely disagree with the assertion that EVERYONE will assume you're wasting DSP if some of it is reserved for things like patch pre-loading to avoid lag or cross-patch delay trails. Obviously, I don't think I'm going to get exactly what I want from this generation, but ALL manufacturers should consider some way to A) Get Rid of Patch Lag and B) have delays trails as something that just happens automatically.... 
I have some sick patches with a couple of high-gain amp models running into each other for rhythm patches, but I can't, DSP-wise fit all my clean channel stuff on the same patch for seamless switching, and the patch change-over latency is a real show-killer for me. Anything longer than a 32nd note and its too long.


----------



## PBGas

jsmalleus said:


> Yeah, I was pretty sad when they pushed it back to 4/7, but then like a day later the expected ship date changed again to sometime in March, then I got a shipping notice for the helix the other day and it arrived yesterday  The foot controller I pre-ordered a little more recently and that is still m.i.a., so I suspect they're just filling the orders depending on what they have and the order date.
> 
> I only spent a couple hours with it last night, but I'm getting used to it and already getting some pretty nice tones out of it. Being able to utilize third party IRs is tremendously helpful in that.



This is great news and great to hear! Well done and congrats! Hope it works out well for you! I've had a few Kemper units and have had not the greatest success with them and have absolutely no interest in anything Fractal due to their constant supply issues. This is the unit I am very interested in at some point this year. I'll wait it out and hopefully hear more from it. 

And if you gents at Line 6 do a proper Bogner XTC red and blue channel profile for a future update and perhaps throw in a Diezel Herbert for good measure, you'll have my $$$! 

Good luck!


----------



## Ps43203

I get that you can solve these issues, (spillover/patch delay), within a preset or parallel path etc... I just thought it would be as easy as the Digitech days by now. I trust there will be many updates to the Helix to come. I am getting interested in the Helix rack as an alternative to the axe. I did expect a few more amps, but they are coming right?  Well, I guess I should not have said easy, because I remember now, they were a PITA to program, lol. It's all good, I have not had chance to try one, so I am waiting until the stampede settles and then I will jump on one.


----------



## Jugghaid

GunpointMetal said:


> No, you can't.
> At least not with the options still available to have a drive or a few gates. I have the X. I push it to DSP with nothing but two full amp models and maybe a gate and overdrive. If you split your amps and front end effects and cabs/loop effects between the DSP paths on HELIX, you can literally run almost two complete signal paths that either of which would probably tank the 500X's DSP.
> 
> OTOH, I completely disagree with the assertion that EVERYONE will assume you're wasting DSP if some of it is reserved for things like patch pre-loading to avoid lag or cross-patch delay trails. Obviously, I don't think I'm going to get exactly what I want from this generation, but ALL manufacturers should consider some way to A) Get Rid of Patch Lag and B) have delays trails as something that just happens automatically....
> I have some sick patches with a couple of high-gain amp models running into each other for rhythm patches, but I can't, DSP-wise fit all my clean channel stuff on the same patch for seamless switching, and the patch change-over latency is a real show-killer for me. Anything longer than a 32nd note and its too long.



I found a bit of a workaround for this as it was bugging me as well.

A loaded up the 2 tone A-B template and worked it to have one amp as my high gain amp, one amp as my clean amp, and put the minotaur in front of the clean amp. clean, crunch, and high gain all on one patch. then I added the neccesary effects. Added a clean boost and delay to a footswitch for solos.

I ran out of DSP to cover all of the options I have and I only use all 3 amps clean, dirty, and high gain on one song. The rest I use 2 tones or only the high gain.

so I created the one specifically with the 3 tones and effects I use for that song (courtesean flanger comes on with crunch, then with clean it's reverb and delay, and high gain just a little verb.

for most of our stuff ( I play all originals) I created dual tone patches where it's solo/high gain or crunch/high gain) I can just ride this patch for 90% of our material. And I am running two amps in stereo as well. One is a Mesa/Engl setup and the other is a 5150/Bogner setup. they sound fricking amazing. you can really distinctly hear the two seperate amp sin stereo. Can't wait for a gig to hear FOH with this setup.

I put in the effects I use like flange, Hard Tremelo, etc and it worked perfectly.

I just recorded some tracks for the last tune on our new CD and now I want to go back and rerecord all of my guitar parts to get these same tones. 

Overall very impressed. Ran the rig through my Eganter Vengeance and HK Grandmeister in stereo and found I had to reset the global EQ for teh live rig. I really think I'm just gonna pick up the Firehawk 1500 for a Wet.Dry.Wet FRFR Speaker system and go FOH from now on though. Just disable all of the modeling on that unit and use the helix through it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Jugghaid said:


> I found a bit of a workaround for this as it was bugging me as well.
> 
> A loaded up the 2 tone A-B template and worked it to have one amp as my high gain amp, one amp as my clean amp, and put the minotaur in front of the clean amp. clean, crunch, and high gain all on one patch. then I added the neccesary effects. Added a clean boost and delay to a footswitch for solos.
> 
> I ran out of DSP to cover all of the options I have and I only use all 3 amps clean, dirty, and high gain on one song. The rest I use 2 tones or only the high gain.
> 
> so I created the one specifically with the 3 tones and effects I use for that song (courtesean flanger comes on with crunch, then with clean it's reverb and delay, and high gain just a little verb.
> 
> for most of our stuff ( I play all originals) I created dual tone patches where it's solo/high gain or crunch/high gain) I can just ride this patch for 90% of our material. And I am running two amps in stereo as well. One is a Mesa/Engl setup and the other is a 5150/Bogner setup. they sound fricking amazing. you can really distinctly hear the two seperate amp sin stereo. Can't wait for a gig to hear FOH with this setup.
> 
> I put in the effects I use like flange, Hard Tremelo, etc and it worked perfectly.
> 
> I just recorded some tracks for the last tune on our new CD and now I want to go back and rerecord all of my guitar parts to get these same tones.
> 
> Overall very impressed. Ran the rig through my Eganter Vengeance and HK Grandmeister in stereo and found I had to reset the global EQ for teh live rig. I really think I'm just gonna pick up the Firehawk 1500 for a Wet.Dry.Wet FRFR Speaker system and go FOH from now on though. Just disable all of the modeling on that unit and use the helix through it.



Your patch set-up is essentially what I'm doing for live, but it feels like a compromise that I can't just switch from my insane heavy rhythm patch with the Meteor and the 5150 models to a clean patch with ALL of the effects that I've set up for recording/jamming. I can't fit all the clean stuff in the same patch as those two amps, no matter how I try, so for now I'm stuck using one drive amp and one clean amp in my live presets so I can switch without a hitch and I have to cut down on 'verbs and delays and mods on my clean channel, due to DSP reasons. When I build a "strictly" clean patch for home use, I like to layer subtle verbs and delays, maybe a parallel path, etc., but the 14.5 years it takes to switch patches between that and a lead/heavy rhythm patch means I can't really use either live, which kinda sucks. Good thing the amp modeling holds up either way.


----------



## mikah912

GunpointMetal said:


> Your patch set-up is essentially what I'm doing for live, but it feels like a compromise that I can't just switch from my insane heavy rhythm patch with the Meteor and the 5150 models to a clean patch with ALL of the effects that I've set up for recording/jamming. I can't fit all the clean stuff in the same patch as those two amps, no matter how I try, so for now I'm stuck using one drive amp and one clean amp in my live presets so I can switch without a hitch and I have to cut down on 'verbs and delays and mods on my clean channel, due to DSP reasons. When I build a "strictly" clean patch for home use, I like to layer subtle verbs and delays, maybe a parallel path, etc., but the 14.5 years it takes to switch patches between that and a lead/heavy rhythm patch means I can't really use either live, which kinda sucks. Good thing the amp modeling holds up either way.



You think about picking up a cheap sub-$100 Zoom CDR pedal and putting it in the Helix FX loop to offload some of delay/reverb usage live?


----------



## GunpointMetal

mikah912 said:


> You think about picking up a cheap sub-$100 Zoom CDR pedal and putting it in the Helix FX loop to offload some of delay/reverb usage live?


I have...but if you start adding MFX to your MFX, it kinda defeats half the purpose for me. The whole reason I've been using modelers for the last 15 years or so is to have LESS stuff/cables to set-up/carry to a gig. I like carrying in my Helix backpack, guitar cases, and my two lightweight 12" PA speakers and being able to be set-up in like 3 minutes.


----------



## mikah912

GunpointMetal said:


> I have...but if you start adding MFX to your MFX, it kinda defeats half the purpose for me. The whole reason I've been using modelers for the last 15 years or so is to have LESS stuff/cables to set-up/carry to a gig. I like carrying in my Helix backpack, guitar cases, and my two lightweight 12" PA speakers and being able to be set-up in like 3 minutes.



Totally get that, but as your usage is a bit of an outlier and you really only need one additional set of always-available effects....I thought a tiny, tiny pedal that runs on batteries and can sit right next to your Helix without adding any weight or taking up space in your gig bag would be an easy problem solver.

There's no all-in-one floorboard that doesn't face DSP challenges for gapless switching between two DSP-intensive signal chains - even the Fractal AX8 with its Scenes and X/Y.


----------



## GunpointMetal

mikah912 said:


> Totally get that, but as your usage is a bit of an outlier and you really only need one additional set of always-available effects....I thought a tiny, tiny pedal that runs on batteries and can sit right next to your Helix without adding any weight or taking up space in your gig bag would be an easy problem solver.
> 
> There's no all-in-one floorboard that doesn't face DSP challenges for gapless switching between two DSP-intensive signal chains - even the Fractal AX8 with its Scenes and X/Y.



Oh for sure, but L6 was able to optimize the code in the HD500X to get preset switching to an "acceptable" level after a little time, so I think they'll probably try and do the same with helix. I'd need something with MIDI so I could have different effects each time I switched it on. I'm definitely an outlier in that when it comes to recording, no two clean sounds are ever the same, so I'd need to change settings/effects on the Zoom with different patches, too. I'm definitely more than happy with the sounds I can pull out of the Helix for live use, it would just be nice to not have to compromise so much for the sake of clean patch switching. And I'll reiterate, in case Digital Igloo is reading.... Bury and extra DSP chip in the next generation that will allow pre-loading a full bank of patches for seamless patch changes and allow for cross-patch delay trails. If you're worried people will be miffed its not used for "better" modeling, tell them due to the hardware architecture (or some BS that we'll believe, lol) its not available for extended processing.


----------



## Jugghaid

GunpointMetal said:


> Your patch set-up is essentially what I'm doing for live, but it feels like a compromise that I can't just switch from my insane heavy rhythm patch with the Meteor and the 5150 models to a clean patch with ALL of the effects that I've set up for recording/jamming. I can't fit all the clean stuff in the same patch as those two amps, no matter how I try, so for now I'm stuck using one drive amp and one clean amp in my live presets so I can switch without a hitch and I have to cut down on 'verbs and delays and mods on my clean channel, due to DSP reasons. When I build a "strictly" clean patch for home use, I like to layer subtle verbs and delays, maybe a parallel path, etc., but the 14.5 years it takes to switch patches between that and a lead/heavy rhythm patch means I can't really use either live, which kinda sucks. Good thing the amp modeling holds up either way.



I messed with this some more today.

I use the A-B switch template and set up the Vengeance with 4C method and use the clean channel on vengeance then 2 different amp models that i can switch between. Also I throw the Minotaur in there for a crunch channel or a boost on the higher gain channels fro soloing. SO I really get 4 or 5 tones in one patch. I also picked up a TRS cable today so I can also switch channels on the Vengeance and use the high gain channel there as well. that will give me a ton of options all within one patch. I'm set. This thing sounds glorious after I dialed in a really good template. Then I made a patch with a Bogner Shiva and a 5150 plus the 2 Egnater channels. The Angl Meteor patch and a boosted Park 75 and the two egnater patches, etc etc etc. If I need more than that in one patch I'll just hook up the midi cable for the Grandmeister and I cann have basically as many amps as I want in one patch.

All you really need is this pedal and a good 2 channel amp with a clean and dirty you really like and add the rest in to taste. Throw in a good distrotion model and you have a ton of possibilities.

BTW, the Shiva model with the master up a bit sounds so damn good for a crunch channel and if you play with the master, sag, and bias X on the Engl model, the tone is killer. And I have my density and presence on my tube amp at 12:00, basically flat.


----------



## runbirdman

I finally received my Helix and Alton TS115A and got to play around with for an hour or so. This is my first foray into DSP and I'm thoroughly impressed. The only issue I've had with putting together a simple set up is assigning the Exp 1/2 functions. I am trying to set a wah as one and a whammy as two but I haven't been able to get either to work. I have assigned both functions to "Exp toe." I looked a little on the Helix forums but the only information that I have gathered about the on board expression pedal is that you have to press hard as hell to activate the toe switch. Can anyone post a walk through of how to set up a multi function expression pedal? I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Digital Igloo

runbirdman said:


> I finally received my Helix and Alton TS115A and got to play around with for an hour or so. This is my first foray into DSP and I'm thoroughly impressed. The only issue I've had with putting together a simple set up is assigning the Exp 1/2 functions. I am trying to set a wah as one and a whammy as two but I haven't been able to get either to work. I have assigned both functions to "Exp toe." I looked a little on the Helix forums but the only information that I have gathered about the on board expression pedal is that you have to press hard as hell to activate the toe switch. Can anyone post a walk through of how to set up a multi function expression pedal? I would really appreciate it.


By default, Helix assigns both Wah and the Pitch Wham blocks to EXP 1 as soon as you add them. To reassign Pitch Wham to EXP 2:

*1. Using the joystick, select the Pitch Wham block and press BYPASS to change its current state (Off or On) to that opposite of the Wah block. The Toe Switch will now toggle them back and forth.

2. Press and hold the Pitch Wham's Position knob. Helix jumps to the Controller Assign page for that parameter. Turn Knob 2 (Controller) to EXP 2.

3. Press HOME to exit.*


----------



## Blasphemer

So I finally received my helix the other day. My main reaction is 

I'm running it 4CM with my amp, and using the EXT amp function. Getting a pretty bad ground loop, so I need to pick up a 1/4" iso transformer. Other than that, the sounds are killer!

The UI is also super easy to pick up, and obviously aimed at the user experience. This thing has a buttload of horsepower on tap, and I've barely even touched the surface of what it can do.

I picked up a pedalboard and case for it, but the board came warped, so I can't mount it, yet. Luckily, the company offered to send me a new board at no cost, so I should be able to get it affixed to its permanent home, soon (speaking of which, anybody want to buy a slightly warped pedalboard? ) Made a cable loom last night with amp input, FX send & return, EXT amp function, and an XLR. Wrapped it in techflex and it's looking friggin' slick, guy.


----------



## metal_sam14

Welcome to the club mate!


----------



## Blasphemer

Question for all of you Helix gurus: 

So, I have a patch setup to run in 4 cable method. The general rundown is that I have the clean and dirty amp channels switching on a footswitch, and that also sets up a reverb to be activated in the FX loop when the clean channel is on. I have a pad and overdrive on the clean channel (path B ), which are both footswitchable. 

I noticed that when I was playing on the lead channel, I could hear the clean channels OD if I switched it on and off. To test this, I put a delay on the clean channel in front of the amp, and sure enough, I could hear the delay on the lead channel. 

I've looked at my path up and down, and can't figure out why this is happening. I can't have the same thing happen if I do it in reverse, as in putting a delay on the lead channel and hear it on the clean channel. Only when I have something on the clean path does it come into path A. 

Am I incorrect in thinking that when path B is engaged, the part in path A which is being split around should be inaudible and vice versa? 

My split settings are A 100% and B 100% with each footswitch state. 








(The delays in these pictures are all in the loop, but I DID have one of them in front of the amp before, while I was experimenting, which is the one I could hear)
Here's a link to the patch, if anybody wants to load it into their helix and give it a go: https://www.dropbox....scapes.hlx?dl=0

Help! I can't figure out whats going on, and I need to bang out a bunch of song-specific patches as I'm going on tour in a month


----------



## Vrollin

My understanding is yes how you have it set should work fine, however, I too have had issues getting this to work properly and cannot figure out why.
The only work around I can suggest is to go to the built in presets and find the template patch for a/b switching, copy all your block on to that. Using that patch to a/b seems to work however I cannot replicate it using the exact same split in a custom user patch from scratch....


----------



## that short guy

anyone else feel like one of the best things in the Helix is the 10 band EQ? I know that sounds a little silly but it's so much easier to notch the frequencies with it than any of the EQ's that were on the POD HD series. I really do love this thing


----------



## metal_sam14

that short guy said:


> anyone else feel like one of the best things in the Helix is the 10 band EQ? I know that sounds a little silly but it's so much easier to notch the frequencies with it than any of the EQ's that were on the POD HD series. I really do love this thing



It is awesome. I use it as a lead boost sometimes to bump the mids and the level, or in front of the amp to cut some flub from my 8 string.


----------



## ibzprestige

I just got the rack version, out of the box are there any updates I have to do or anything I should know? I got the John Browne presets which are awesome, any others I should check out?


----------



## big_aug

My only wish now is a polyphonic pitch shifter. I don't want to buy a pedal to use. I want the helix to do it. I hate to have to use another piece of equipment, but who knows when helix will ever get it.

Damn DigiTech Drop is so expensive too


----------



## that short guy

ibzprestige said:


> I just got the rack version, out of the box are there any updates I have to do or anything I should know? I got the John Browne presets which are awesome, any others I should check out?



Depending on the firmware you have out of the box you'll want to update to the most recent

Where did you get John Browne presets?


----------



## ibzprestige

that short guy said:


> Depending on the firmware you have out of the box you'll want to update to the most recent
> 
> Where did you get John Browne presets?




Home / Flux Conduct


----------



## that short guy

big_aug said:


> My only wish now is a polyphonic pitch shifter. I don't want to buy a pedal to use. I want the helix to do it. I hate to have to use another piece of equipment, but who knows when helix will ever get it.
> 
> Damn DigiTech Drop is so expensive too



It is expensive but it definitely works. I know that one of the guys in august burns red uses (or at least used to) it even though his Kemper has a quaility built in one. It works really well. and to be honest I don't see L6 being able to make a drop tune pedal that could out perform it. I'm hopeful because I love me some L6 but the drop tune is what I consider the top of the line pedal as far as pitch shifting a whole guitar down for more than just single note riffing. it actually does full chords and doesn't sound digital.



ibzprestige said:


> Home / Flux Conduct



Thanks man, I didn't know he had put anything out for the helix yet.


----------



## that short guy

So I figured I'd actually contribute something besides words to this thread here's the main rhythm and bass tones that I came up with since I had it.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/helix-tone-demo[/SC]

I used the diamond plate and the epic to make this patch. I was trying to make a Mark IV/V sounding patch and while I didn't quite get it I really like what I came up with

The bass patch has a lot going on in it and to be honest I don't remember what I put in it lol.

Let me know what you think.

Edit: I have one other patch that I guess I could share. It's from the NGD I did for the helix. it's a comparison between the Helix and the POD HD tone. POD is first then the Helix.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/dual-rec-tone-comparison[/SC]


----------



## big_aug

I went ahead and ordered a Drop. I got a good deal on a used one. I'm ....ing stoked


----------



## metal_sam14

For those of you wanting a metal demo of the Helix, here is some 8 string stuff for you:


----------



## big_aug

I got my DigiTech Drop today. Best $93 ive ever spent. Sounds ....ing awesome for 1-2 steps down. Helix complete again lol


----------



## Fretless

I am thoroughly satisfied with my Helix. I am still learning some new things about it, and finding little tricks to maximize DSP allocation too.

For instance, running all of your stuff in one path is great, but if you're not using path 2, you can pretty much double your available DSP by routing path 1 into path 2. 

I've found that by doing that I can put all of my reverb, delay, and other post amp effects on path 2, leaving me more room for pre amp effects on path 1.


----------



## metal_sam14

New Helix video up! This time going over my attempt at a Devin Townsend tone:


----------



## PBGas

Nicely done!!! Sounds great!


----------



## Force

I had no idea this thing existed til today. After watching loads of vids & thinking "Yay, time to ditch this ....box HD500", I discovered the same old problem..........

........$3000+ in Australia.

We get so f**ked over here. Looks like I'll still be struggling with crappy tone for sometime yet.


----------



## marcwormjim

In the meantime, I hear a good player can make someone's gear sound good.


----------



## Vrollin

Force said:


> I had no idea this thing existed til today. After watching loads of vids & thinking "Yay, time to ditch this ....box HD500", I discovered the same old problem..........
> 
> ........$3000+ in Australia.
> 
> We get so f**ked over here. Looks like I'll still be struggling with crappy tone for sometime yet.



I paid 2300 for mine from better music....


----------



## GunpointMetal

There ain't anything wrong with the tones one can pull out of the HD500......


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> I paid 2300 for mine from better music....



do you guys get hammered that bad? holy crap I did a quick AUS to US exchange and it was still 1700ish. I never realized you guys might get screwed on somethings


----------



## that short guy

So this is the first real thing I've recorded with the Helix. For my main metal tone, I tried dialing in a Mark IIC/IV/V tone (very indecisive I know)for the rhythm and failed miserably lol but I did like the tone that I stumbled upon in the process. The lead was just a dual rec patch and the cleans where something that I threw together fast for contrast. Let me know what yall think of it.

And yes I'm well aware that I'm going to rock hell for doing this but overlook the fact that this is a cover song and just listen for the tones lol.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/memories-of-aurora/dream-on-aerosmith-cover[/SC]


----------



## Vrollin

that short guy said:


> do you guys get hammered that bad? holy crap I did a quick AUS to US exchange and it was still 1700ish. I never realized you guys might get screwed on somethings



Yeah, once our taxes and everything are thrown on it and the middle man takes his cut we get destroyed on everything that is music gear.


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> Yeah, once our taxes and everything are thrown on it and the middle man takes his cut we get destroyed on everything that is music gear.



Dude I'm sorry. Is it like that with most of the popular brands? Or are there any that help you guys out?


----------



## Radau

Where are you looking to find it at $3000? Everywhere I look it's $2699 - $2799


----------



## Vrollin

that short guy said:


> Dude I'm sorry. Is it like that with most of the popular brands? Or are there any that help you guys out?



Its everything, usually cheaper to buy from the US than the local store. Its out of control, but now our dollar is so ....ty its hard either way...


----------



## metal_sam14

Dialed in a lead tone today and made a video.


----------



## Fretless

metal_sam14 said:


> Dialed in a lead tone today and made a video.



Epic! I made a pretty awesome lead patch with my helix not too long ago.

Have you tried using a crossfade split with delay on the high end, and reverb on the low end with the split around 400-600Hz? I've found that really cleans up my lead tone a lot.


----------



## Ericjutsu

metal_sam14 said:


> Dialed in a lead tone today and made a video.




did you use the stock cabs or IR?


----------



## metal_sam14

Ericjutsu said:


> did you use the stock cabs or IR?



Stock cabs, link to the patch is in the description on youtube.


----------



## Ericjutsu

metal_sam14 said:


> Stock cabs, link to the patch is in the description on youtube.



what's your opinion on the stock cabs? I like them for pretty much everything except heavy rhythm tones with the exception being djent tones. I think the stock cabs are good for that as well.


----------



## that short guy

Ericjutsu said:


> what's your opinion on the stock cabs? I like them for pretty much everything except heavy rhythm tones with the exception being djent tones. I think the stock cabs are good for that as well.



I think some of them do hard rock/metal tones fairly well. My normal go to is the black back w/ the 421 mic


----------



## metal_sam14

Ericjutsu said:


> what's your opinion on the stock cabs? I like them for pretty much everything except heavy rhythm tones with the exception being djent tones. I think the stock cabs are good for that as well.



You can do everything with the stock cabs, they are awesome. 

IR's just give you lots of choice and in some cases do sound better. I have been running the gods cab mesa cab impulses on my high gain stuff, they are free and awesome - you can hear them on my channel in my first and second videos.


----------



## Ericjutsu

metal_sam14 said:


> You can do everything with the stock cabs, they are awesome.
> 
> IR's just give you lots of choice and in some cases do sound better. I have been running the gods cab mesa cab impulses on my high gain stuff, they are free and awesome - you can hear them on my channel in my first and second videos.



yeah I listened to those ones as well with the IRs. Have you tried Ownhammer, 3 Sigma Audio or JST Conquer All? Those are my personal favorite ones. I've tried just about every IR out there commercial or otherwise except for the Fractal ones because they are not .wavs and I would need their software to run them which defeats the purpose of the Helix.


----------



## Fretless

Ericjutsu said:


> yeah I listened to those ones as well with the IRs. Have you tried Ownhammer, 3 Sigma Audio or JST Conquer All? Those are my personal favorite ones. I've tried just about every IR out there commercial or otherwise except for the Fractal ones because they are not .wavs and I would need their software to run them which defeats the purpose of the Helix.



Ownhammer just released an orange PPC 2x12 IR set, and it is soooo good for the Helix in my opinion! So that's something I can recommend, I have tons of other ones too.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Fretless said:


> Ownhammer just released an orange PPC 2x12 IR set, and it is soooo good for the Helix in my opinion! So that's something I can recommend, I have tons of other ones too.




wish it had a different speaker to go with the V30 instead of the greenback. A creamback or scumback would have been cooler to me. I might still buy it though. I own a ton of them already.
Save​


----------



## Fretless

Ericjutsu said:


> wish it had a different speaker to go with the V30 instead of the greenback. A creamback or scumback would have been cooler to me. I might still buy it though. I own a ton of them already.
> Save​



The greenback is pretty awesome though if you use two of the IR's split and crossfaded from eachother. It handles the low end super well. I split them around 400Hz and I really like the tone I get.


----------



## that short guy

I don't know if anyone else is into these kind of sounds but I think I made a pretty nice clean tone using thing JC-120 sim with some delay and reverb and cut the lows out of it below 120 Hz

let me know what you guys think

https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/looking-back


----------



## Blasphemer

So, I returned from tour just over a week ago, and yesterday went to the practice space to pick up a few things to bring home, my Helix included. The last day of tour we packed the trailer differently due to some gear being left in a different city (long story), so my Helix was put in a different position than before. Every previous pack, it sat on top of my amp head on it's bottom, as such (with the lid on, of course):






The last day, however, it sat on the cases side, so all of the I/O connections were face down. Well, somewhere in transport, the 3M dual lock that was holding the helix to the board let go, and it smashed the IEC into the socket. I didn't even notice this until I took the IEC out to reset the Helix back onto the board, and then the cable would't go into the socket. This is what I was met by:





I'm 99.9999% sure that this isn't covered by warranty, so my options now seem to be to take it to an "authorized repair center", the closest of which is an hour and 20 minutes away, or to fix it myself. Replacing an IEC socket isn't hard in and of itself, but getting to the part is what worries me. Having to possibly take out PCB components to get to it is very no bueno, to me. 

What do you guys think my course of action should be? The repair center obviously stands out as the best choice, but the time and cost involved may be a bit much for me, at the moment.


----------



## jeremyb

If you're lucky it won't be soldered to the board, you could undo those screws and give it a little pull and see if it comes out?


----------



## Blasphemer

jeremyb said:


> If you're lucky it won't be soldered to the board, you could undo those screws and give it a little pull and see if it comes out?



The screws just seem to be spinning in place, so I have the inkling to believe that they are just held on by free floating nuts on the other side, so I'd need to get inside the unit to take it off. It does, however, look like cables coming from the other side, so I don't think it's soldered on directly to the PCB


----------



## Arkeion

Hey dudes. Thinking about swapping my Archon 100 for a Helix. y/n? I wanna dj0nt. Browne's demos are sick, but can his tone be recreated relatively painless? Wanna add that I'm completely new to modelers.


----------



## Fretless

Arkeion said:


> Hey dudes. Thinking about swapping my Archon 100 for a Helix. y/n? I wanna dj0nt. Browne's demos are sick, but can his tone be recreated relatively painless? Wanna add that I'm completely new to modelers.



It's super easy to use. I love my helix. Seriously takes like 5 minutes to make a 100% usable and satisfying patch. Plus with it's effects loop you can do so much more.


----------



## androponic

The power input looks to be off to the side beyond the PCB.


----------



## Blasphemer

^ I actually tried to replace the IEC socket, but couldn't do it without removing the I/O PCB, which I don't really want to do. So I just reassembled the cable into the socket, and strain relief'd it off onto the pedalboard with a sign saying to never unplug the IEC. No open connections anywhere, and it's still fully functional. This is the holdover until I can get it to a repair tech


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Looks like the Helix now have their own version of Fractal's "Scenes".

(image for Helix FB group)

And new amp models and effects. Mark EFFIN IV!

New Amp Models
Cali IV Rhythm 1, based on* the Rhythm I channel of the MESA/Boogie® Mk IV
Cali IV Rhythm 2, based on* the Rhythm II channel of the MESA/Boogie® Mk IV
Cali IV Lead, based on* the Lead channel of the MESA/Boogie® Mk IV
Line 6 2204 Mod, Line 6 Original based on* a hot-rodded Marshall® JCM 800
Line 6 Fatality, Line 6 Original based on* THALL
New Effects Models
Distortion > Wringer Fuzz (Mono, Stereo), based on* Garbage&#8217;s special BOSS® FZ-2
EQ > Cali Q Graphic (Mono, Stereo), based on* the MESA/Boogie® Mk IV&#8217;s 5-band EQ
Modulation > Harmonic Tremolo (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original
Delay > Vintage Digital (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original


----------



## Blasphemer

Finally! Now this is something I can get into!


----------



## MattThePenguin

Arkeion said:


> Hey dudes. Thinking about swapping my Archon 100 for a Helix. y/n? I wanna dj0nt. Browne's demos are sick, but can his tone be recreated relatively painless? Wanna add that I'm completely new to modelers.



Lawd I would never trade my Archon for this. If that amp isn't getting the djent tone you want, then you're doing something wrong man haha


----------



## Vrollin

Not familiar with the term, what are scenes?


----------



## Alex Kenivel

My saved money slowly builds...will it be Helix...will it be AX8......I keep going back and forth!


----------



## Vrollin

Alex Kenivel said:


> My saved money slowly builds...will it be Helix...will it be AX8......I keep going back and forth!



After seeing the demo of the ax8 by ola I would have a hard time making a decision between the two now. I bought helix, however the ax8 wasn't out at the time, now I'm not sure what I'd get, both are great, the helix has a few more bells and whistles but the ax8 has loads more models on board and line6 are being fair slow with the updates. My concern now is that so few updates have been made since release and I worry that the product itself will be phased out in a year or so with little major updates over the course of the product life...


----------



## Lax

Vrollin said:


> Not familiar with the term, what are scenes?


Scenes in the axefx is a preset in a preset, it allows to activate/deactivate blocks & change controllers (volume etc) without changing the preset and having a sound cut while changing.

You can have a riff with no effect and very high gain and with the next scene have lowered gain and many effects activated 

Plus it allows spillover, like the delay trail continues thought you changed sound.


----------



## Vrollin

Lax said:


> Scenes in the axefx is a preset in a preset, it allows to activate/deactivate blocks & change controllers (volume etc) without changing the preset and having a sound cut while changing.
> 
> You can have a riff with no effect and very high gain and with the next scene have lowered gain and many effects activated
> 
> Plus it allows spillover, like the delay trail continues thought you changed sound.



Just finished setting up the snapshots on a couple of my presets. Its exactly what I wanted this unit to do all along! What I still have my fingers crossed for now is an auto on/off for the wah....
Either I really suck at setting up a good tone or those Mk IV amps are really low end heavy and muffled. The factory setting even has the amp sim come up with a huge cut on the low end which seems a bit odd...


----------



## jbealsmusic

Vrollin said:


> Either I really suck at setting up a good tone or those Mk IV amps are really low end heavy and muffled.


That's pretty much what they sound like in person. TONS of bottom end. I've seen people using them with the bass rolled down to 1 or 2, and it is still too thick. Cab/speaker choice is key. Using a boost in front to tighten things up also helps.


----------



## schecter58

I know there are lots of clips online but how does this compare to the Axe II/AX8 or the Kemper?

AX8 works out to be 2200 CAD with tax and shipping (East Coast of Canada) + the arbitrary brokerage once it hits the Canada/Us border. 

The Helix works out to be 2300 CAD with tax and be purchased locally. 

May jump on the modelling bandwagon eventually.


----------



## Elric

Lax said:


> Scenes in the axefx is a preset in a preset, it allows to activate/deactivate blocks & change controllers (volume etc) without changing the preset and having a sound cut while changing.
> 
> You can have a riff with no effect and very high gain and with the next scene have lowered gain and many effects activated
> 
> Plus it allows spillover, like the delay trail continues thought you changed sound.


Yup, I have an AFX2 and I just gotta say, congrats Helix fans, you are gonna *love* that feature. It was smart for L6 to implement it.


----------



## mikah912

Vrollin said:


> Either I really suck at setting up a good tone or those Mk IV amps are really low end heavy and muffled. The factory setting even has the amp sim come up with a huge cut on the low end which seems a bit odd...



jbealsmusic already pretty much covered it, but yeah....if you have a Mark II/IV/V sim, and you don't have to roll the non-graphic EQ bass settings down between 2 and 4 to get a non-flubby tone (depending the pickups and guitar)...it aint very accurate.

The AX8/Axe II Quantum Mesa Mark models have to be set the same way. So does the real life amp.


----------



## lewis

Arkeion said:


> Hey dudes. Thinking about *swapping my Archon 100 for a Helix*. y/n? I wanna dj0nt. Browne's demos are sick, but can his tone be recreated relatively painless? Wanna add that I'm completely new to modelers.



As good as the Helix might be, Swapping a damn Archon for a Line 6 product however decent?. Is Insane man!!

That Amp will deliver tones that the Helix would never truly replicate or match for quality. If your not happy with the tone then either the tubes need replacing or your dialing her in wrong.


----------



## Mathemagician

The only like 2-3 band/artists I can name who use the Archon are Djent artists. Not saying you should keep the Archon no matter what, but maybe hit up the official forums and see what people are dialing in? It's seems to be a fantastic metal amp from the limited mentions I've seen.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I tried the small Archon combo a week or so ago, I was more impressed than I thought that I would be for such a small one trick pony, or so I thought.


----------



## Digital Igloo

lewis said:


> As good as the Helix might be, Swapping a damn Archon for a Line 6 product however decent?. Is Insane man!!


The Archon is indeed a great amp.


----------



## rexbinary

I don't own a Helix, but I saw this on Line 6's twitter yesterday.



> Have a Helix? Helix 2.0 Firmware is here with 9 new amps and effects, powerful new performance features Download it free today! #line6


https://twitter.com/Line6/status/750833834531454976


----------



## jbealsmusic

rexbinary said:


> I don't own a Helix, but I saw this on Line 6's twitter yesterday.
> 
> https://twitter.com/Line6/status/750833834531454976


Yup... Just a few posts up:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4611304-post1256.html


----------



## rexbinary

Ah sorry. I did make an effort to scan back though the thread, but apparently I failed miserably.


----------



## jbealsmusic

rexbinary said:


> Ah sorry. I did make an effort to scan back though the thread, but apparently I failed miserably.


Haha.. No worries. We all do it.


----------



## metal_sam14

Loaded v2.0 last night, so good! The Mark IV stuff is really good, and the inclusion of the graphic EQ from the amp is a nice touch. 

Snapshots are amazing, its completely changed how I use the unit (for the better) and made my live set so much easier.


----------



## Fretless

metal_sam14 said:


> Loaded v2.0 last night, so good! The Mark IV stuff is really good, and the inclusion of the graphic EQ from the amp is a nice touch.
> 
> Snapshots are amazing, its completely changed how I use the unit (for the better) and made my live set so much easier.



Totally agree with you on both points. I run a setup where I go 10-band > 808 > valve driver > parametric EQ > US double nrm > cab and now the addition of the 5 band mesa graphic EQ has really made this rig even more flexible. 

and snapshots, oh yes lord snapshots.


----------



## metal_sam14

Fretless said:


> Totally agree with you on both points. I run a setup where I go 10-band > 808 > valve driver > parametric EQ > US double nrm > cab and now the addition of the 5 band mesa graphic EQ has really made this rig even more flexible.
> 
> and snapshots, oh yes lord snapshots.



So good. Previously I had all my effects on different buttons, and then my distorted chain split off and my clean chain split off, so a button would switch between them but it made it tricky with certain delays and stuff. 

Now with snapshots it is so easy, I have 4 set up: 
clean w/ delay, 
crunch (turns amp gain down, disables boost pedal) 
rhythm (boost on, amp settings changed)
lead (boosts amp gain, mids, volume, enables delay)

Then I just have my punch in/out effects on the top buttons (phaser, extra delay etc)


----------



## Arkeion

MattThePenguin said:


> Lawd I would never trade my Archon for this. If that amp isn't getting the djent tone you want, then you're doing something wrong man haha





lewis said:


> As good as the Helix might be, Swapping a damn Archon for a Line 6 product however decent?. Is Insane man!!
> 
> That Amp will deliver tones that the Helix would never truly replicate or match for quality. If your not happy with the tone then either the tubes need replacing or your dialing her in wrong.



Not dissatisfied with the Archon at all. It's absolutely phenomenal and I have 0 regrets. Just looking to downsize is all. Getting married and moving soon, and trying to avoid turning down a nice house because it can't hold all my ....


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Oh this Helix (I have the rack + control for my studio)


Sure Fractal, and Kemper are in the same league as far as sound quality go. We are at the point of diminishing returns on that anyway. However, the features, ease of use, the routing, and ReAmping capabilities make this a one of a kind unit in a single box.

I love my Helix. FW 2.0 made it even better.


----------



## Fretless

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> Oh this Helix (I have the rack + control for my studio)
> 
> 
> Sure Fractal, and Kemper are in the same league as far as sound quality go. We are at the point of diminishing returns on that anyway. However, the features, ease of use, the routing, and ReAmping capabilities make this a one of a kind unit in a single box.
> 
> I love my Helix. FW 2.0 made it even better.



The routing alone make it entirely worth it for me. I have my 3 strymon pedals each in their own loop. Makes it really nice when triggering them, or just placing them in a patch.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Fretless said:


> The routing alone make it entirely worth it for me. I have my 3 strymon pedals each in their own loop. Makes it really nice when triggering them, or just placing them in a patch.



The 8x8 USB made it worth it for me. Only guitar processor that I know of that has all of this in one single unit. Reduces the unnecessary A/D/A conversion. 

As it stands if I went Axe or Kemper I would need a separate high quality audio interface to ReAmp how I want. I could go completely digital in the connections but this way is almost twice the price of going the route I did. 

The Helix all in one box for me really hits home. I can dial in (for ReAmping) left, and right rhythm guitars, both with separate signal chains, while listening to the mix all at the same time.


----------



## Fretless

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> The 8x8 USB made it worth it for me. Only guitar processor that I know of that has all of this in one single unit. Reduces the unnecessary A/D/A conversion.
> 
> As it stands if I went Axe or Kemper I would need a separate high quality audio interface to ReAmp how I want. I could go completely digital in the connections but this way is almost twice the price of going the route I did.
> 
> The Helix all in one box for me really hits home. I can dial in (for ReAmping) left, and right rhythm guitars, both with separate signal chains, while listening to the mix all at the same time.



I don't know why you'd need a seperate interface to reamp if you had an axe or a kemper, Going digital is going to be the same with anything really.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Fretless said:


> I don't know why you'd need a seperate interface to reamp if you had an axe or a kemper, Going digital is going to be the same with anything really.


I mean I would have to use a different interface if I went with those instead of the Helix. 
Because neither the Kemper, nor the Axe FX have enough channels on USB to accommodate what I mentioned above by being the interface themselves. 4x2 on the Axe FX, the Kemper I am not so sure about, but I thought I read somewhere that it was like the Axe FX, or even less. 

I'm not knocking the KPA, or AXE FX, as they are phenomenal as well, but they just can't do what I want in a single unit. Especially for the price.

Hell, with the Helix, I could easily incorporate a KPA, or AXE FX down the line into my setup using the digital connections no problem, and lose 0 of my routing potential.


----------



## metal_sam14

According to Digital Igloo on the Helix forums, the new "Fatality" original amp model is a heavily modified rectifier. It can get pretty brutal: https://soundcloud.com/sam14-1/line-6-helix-fatality-amp-test


----------



## Fretless

metal_sam14 said:


> According to Digital Igloo on the Helix forums, the new "Fatality" original amp model is a heavily modified rectifier. It can get pretty brutal: https://soundcloud.com/sam14-1/line-6-helix-fatality-amp-test



Dang. That's seriously good sounding.


----------



## axb312

Hi Guys ,

Recently invested in a pretty expensive computer to record stuff on. 

The helix looks so tempting.

I'm currently using an X3 live followed by an IR plugin on my DAW, which gives me pretty decent tone - with a little tweaking.

What could the possible reasons to upgrade to the Helix be?


----------



## Fretless

axb312 said:


> Hi Guys ,
> 
> Recently invested in a pretty expensive computer to record stuff on.
> 
> The helix looks so tempting.
> 
> I'm currently using an X3 live followed by an IR plugin on my DAW, which gives me pretty decent tone - with a little tweaking.
> 
> What could the possible reasons to upgrade to the Helix be?



Quality of amp sims, flexible routing, great effects, no need for an IR loader (you can place effects after the cabinet now for example), simplicity in that it is much easier to dial in patches, and so many more aspects that in my opinion make this worth upgrading, especially if you're putting money into your recording system.


----------



## axb312

I am pretty tired of messing around and wasting time fiddling with my tone, when I could be playing - which I believe the Helix is good for.

Can you add multiple stomps/ pedals in a chain as well as change the chain order on helix? Eg. Add 2 noise gates wherever you want to.

Also what is the final word on this vs the AX8 or even the Axe FXii/ Kemper?

I tried making a mix today with the Pod X3 live and IRs like I usually do. Bloody thing wasn't cooperating - all 16th notes at 160 bpm sounded super muddy and indistinct...How can this be solved?


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

axb312 said:


> I am pretty tired of messing around and wasting time fiddling with my tone, when I could be playing - which I believe the Helix is good for.
> 
> Can you add multiple stomps/ pedals in a chain as well as change the chain order on helix? Eg. Add 2 noise gates wherever you want to.
> 
> Also what is the final word on this vs the AX8 or even the Axe FXii/ Kemper?
> 
> I tried making a mix today with the Pod X3 live and IRs like I usually do. Bloody thing wasn't cooperating - all 16th notes at 160 bpm sounded super muddy and indistinct...How can this be solved?



Kemper, Axe FX II, AX8, and Helix most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a truly blind test. We are at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to digital emulation. Meaning: yes, we can still evolve it and improve the quality, however it will only be incremental at best. (perceptively) Do not expect Ax FX III, Kemper II, or Helix II to be as big improvement in emulation, as Axe FX II, Kemper, and Helix were compared to things like the POD, or most Digitech offerings. 

The tones are great. To your other questions, in regards to capabilities of the Helix.. Yes to all of them. The signal chain is fully flexible. The signal path inputs themselves have optional gates on them, as well as a (Hard gate) and (soft gate) stomp boxes if I remember correctly. You could put the amp first or last, or no amp at all. You can have as many stomp boxes as you want, in whatever order you want (provided you don't max out the DSP) Then you can just utilize the other pathways which utilize the second DSP chip and even further your chain possibilities.

Dialing in tone with the Helix has been the easiest, and fastest than any other digital modeler. The on-board unit interface is as fast as the Eleven Rack -PC editor with mouse and keyboard- is for me. 

The ReAmping capabilities cannot be matched in a single unit by any other offering on the market. The Helix is clearly the king in that department, with the routing, and its USB potential.


----------



## axb312

How about the direct recording capabilities of the Helix ?

With the X3 live, there's always (understandably - or so I believe) a difference in tone between what I get over my speakers and what comes out of an amp, with an amp of course being much warmer and clearer etc.

Could I record great metal/ blues/ whatever by directly plugging the helix into my PC over USB?Eqing and double/ quad tracking are a given ofcourse - but I don't want to keep endlessly fiddling with tone!


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

axb312 said:


> How about the direct recording capabilities of the Helix ?
> 
> With the X3 live, there's always (understandably - or so I believe) a difference in tone between what I get over my speakers and what comes out of an amp, with an amp of course being much warmer and clearer etc.
> 
> Could I record great metal/ blues/ whatever by directly plugging the helix into my PC over USB?Eqing and double/ quad tracking are a given ofcourse - but I don't want to keep endlessly fiddling with tone!



By Speakers I assume you mean something along the lines of an FRFR setup, or studio monitors. (which have a much wider frequency response than guitar amps)

If this is the case the reason the AMP being warmer and clearer is because of its limited frequency response compared to that of the FRFR, or Studio Monitors. (which will sound more boomy, and shrill, compared to an amp because of this) Amps usually don't produce much under 100hz, and usually roll off gradually, or sharply depending on the amp, around the 5khz-ish mark. 

The way to get around this is to manually set the Hi- and Low cut in the Helix to compensate. 

This is found in several locations. It can be done via global EQ. It can be done in the AMP, and in the CAB parameters. There is actually a hi-low cut available on several FX parameters as well. I have read that most people like the result of doing it in the CAB section, or the IR that they have loaded in place of a CAB.

EDIT: Also there is Guitar input Impedance that you can set per preset! Which also can also affect tone.


----------



## axb312

Sounds awesome!

Thanks for the responses....Now to rob a bank!


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

No problem, I am glad I could be of assistance.


----------



## axb312

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> By Speakers I assume you mean something along the lines of an FRFR setup, or studio monitors. (which have a much wider frequency response than guitar amps)
> 
> If this is the case the reason the AMP being warmer and clearer is because of its limited frequency response compared to that of the FRFR, or Studio Monitors. (which will sound more boomy, and shrill, compared to an amp because of this) Amps usually don't produce much under 100hz, and usually roll off gradually, or sharply depending on the amp, around the 5khz-ish mark.
> 
> The way to get around this is to manually set the Hi- and Low cut in the Helix to compensate.
> 
> This is found in several locations. It can be done via global EQ. It can be done in the AMP, and in the CAB parameters. There is actually a hi-low cut available on several FX parameters as well. I have read that most people like the result of doing it in the CAB section, or the IR that they have loaded in place of a CAB.
> 
> EDIT: Also there is Guitar input Impedance that you can set per preset! Which also can also affect tone.



Another question - if the lower (say below 100 Hz) and higher (say above 10 kHZ frequencies) don't play a role in the sound - for overdriven sounds anyway, why are they included in these amp models/ patches in the first place?


----------



## KristapsCoCoo

axb312 said:


> Another question - if the lower (say below 100 Hz) and higher (say above 10 kHZ frequencies) don't play a role in the sound - for overdriven sounds anyway, why are they included in these amp models/ patches in the first place?



Those are present in real amps too, cab's usually cut/don't reflect those frequencies. On modelers where you have good EQ's, you can add and cut freq's, so that's not a problem at all.


----------



## axb312

Here's what it's boiling down to for me guys:

1. Line 6 helix usability benefits/ issues:
- Great onboard UI
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Direct USB recording with the same latency as any professional Audio interface (correct this if I'm wrong please)
- A bunch of possible routing/ wiring configurations, including some not so useful ones for me (eg. Variax)
- On board expression pedal
- Better update cycle so far than what has been seen from Line 6 in the past. 

2. AX8 usability benefits/ issues:
- Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
- Tones direct from Pro artists via their forum etc.
- Continuous free updates and improvements
- Issue 1: Will need separate audio interface (probably something like the 2i2 (Focusrite) )whch is retailing at 149 USD now.
- Issue 2: No expression pedal (possibly not so important)
- Issue 3: No onboard UI niceties (scribble strips, color LCD etc) like the Helix


However, inspite of all this - the most important factor for me - and for most guitarists I hope - should be the tone. Most demos I hear put the AX8 ahead in this department. But then you hear that the Helix with some custom IRs can sound the same as an AX8. What do I mean by tone? Less muddy distortion, attack depending on how you pick, dynamics etc etc.

Opinions still welcome...I want to buy one of these things and still can't decide. It's not possible to try both and send one back either - that will be an initial investment of 3000 USD - plus fees to send one of them back.


----------



## sharedEQ

axb312 said:


> Here's what it's boiling down to for me guys:
> 
> 1. Line 6 helix usability benefits/ issues:
> - Great onboard UI
> - Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
> - Direct USB recording with the same latency as any professional Audio interface (correct this if I'm wrong please)
> - A bunch of possible routing/ wiring configurations, including some not so useful ones for me (eg. Variax)
> - On board expression pedal
> - Better update cycle so far than what has been seen from Line 6 in the past.
> 
> 2. AX8 usability benefits:
> - Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
> - Tones direct from Pro artists via there forum etc.
> - Continuous free updates and improvements
> - Issue 1: Will need separate audio interface (probably something like the 2i2 (Focusrite) )whch is retailing at 149 USD now.
> - Issue 2: No expression medal (possibly not so important)
> - Issue 3: No onboard UI niceties (scribble strips, color LCD etc) like the Helix
> 
> 
> However, inspite of all this - the most important factor for me - and for most guitarists I hope should be the tone. Most demos I hear put the AX8 ahead in this department. But then you hear that the Helix with some custom IRs can sound the same as an AX8. What do I mean by tone? Less muddy distortion, attack depending on how you pick, dynamics etc etc.
> 
> Opinions still welcome...I want to buy one of these things and still can't decide. It's not possible to try both and send one back either - that will be an initial investment of 3000 USD - plus fees to send one of them back.



Do you need either one right now? Are you not able to gig or produce music?

Waiting is always the best idea if you don't know for sure. Next year they will be on sale. In two years they will start showing up on ebay and the next generation of these things will be even better and cost less.

Honestly, I think real amps for live (and recording), plus VSTs for recording give the best of both worlds. If you are willing to put in the work, you can find VST sims that sound as good as the AXE or Helix.

Its a good time to wait.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

sharedEQ said:


> Its a good time to wait.



And that's exactly what I'm doing with my Pod HD. I bought it a month before HX and AX8 were announced and kicked myself for spending the cash and not holding out for the new stuff. But I found tones I liked with what I had and bought a new guitar instead, while I wait for and watch this new generation of floor modelers "battle" (stupid right? Tools of creativity in a battle ) it out for a spot on my Pedaltrain by being a spectator


----------



## jbealsmusic

axb312 said:


> Here's what it's boiling down to for me guys:


I actually have both now, so I can comment on each of these. My comments in red:



> 1. Line 6 helix usability benefits/ issues:
> - Great onboard UI
> Yes. I've tried/used at least a dozen modelers in the past decade. This one has the best on-board UI by an incredibly wide margin. Very fast, intuitive, and just nice to look at. That said, if you don't plan on gigging and will mainly be in a studio connected to a computer, the UI is essentially immaterial since you'll more likely be using the PC editor.
> - Great looking tone editor on PC etc. Yes.
> - Direct USB recording with the same latency as any professional Audio interface (correct this if I'm wrong please)
> Yes. Though you should know that latency has more to do with your computer's performance, drivers, and buffer settings.
> - A bunch of possible routing/ wiring configurations, including some not so useful ones for me (eg. Variax) Yes.
> - On board expression pedal Yes.
> - Better update cycle so far than what has been seen from Line 6 in the past.
> **EDIT: *Yes. But it should be mentioned that Line 6 hasn't come out and guaranteed that they will stay free. It's been great so far, but who knows if this will be the norm forever. Here's hoping they keep it free and keep up the pace!
> 
> 2. AX8 usability benefits:
> - Great looking tone editor on PC etc.
> Yes. But it is not without its faults. Primarily, you get signal dropout and skipping/artifacts whenever you change parameters while you're playing. It is a minor inconvenience, but it is annoying. Sometimes weird stuff happens too, like you'll have a signal chain loaded up and AX8 will disable one of the blocks due to using too much CPU even though the CPU meter isn't close to tapping out. You'd think it would prevent you from adding the block in the first place, but no. It does it randomly too. Like, you'll load the block, play for a bit with it on and working fine, then all of a sudden the block is disabled.
> - Tones direct from Pro artists via there forum etc.
> There are TONS of tones for the Axe-fx. Not many for the AX8. The Axe-change is a baron wasteland compared to Line 6 Customtone. Helix has over 800 presets up there. AX8 has just over 30.
> - Continuous free updates and improvements Yes.
> - Issue 1: Will need separate audio interface (probably something like the 2i2 (Focusrite) )whch is retailing at 149 USD now. Check.
> - Issue 2: No expression medal (possibly not so important)
> I didn't think I'd care about that one, but apparently I use it more than I thought. When I use the AX8, I miss the expression pedal.
> - Issue 3: No onboard UI niceties (scribble strips, color LCD etc) like the Helix
> True. Much more tedious and less intuitive to use compared to Helix. But again, not a problem if you don't plan on gigging with it and will mainly be using it while hooked up to a computer.
> 
> However, inspite of all this - the most important factor for me - and for most guitarists I hope should be the tone. Most demos I hear put the AX8 ahead in this department. But then you hear that the Helix with some custom IRs can sound the same as an AX8. What do I mean by tone? Less muddy distortion, attack depending on how you pick, dynamics etc etc.
> Truth be told, both units sound great. They definitely sound different and need to be dialed in differently to get you "there", but they are both "there". IMO the only tone advantage to AX8 is way more amp/cab models and deep editing features. The disadvantage is that it is far more limited as far as creating complex signal chains compared to Helix. Once again, that really only matters if you plan on using it in a live setting.
> 
> Opinions still welcome...I want to buy one of these things and still can't decide. It's not possible to try both and send one back either - that will be an initial investment of 3000 USD - plus fees to send one of them back.
> No Line 6 dealers in Dubai with a Helix you could try?


I can't speak for everyone else, but for me digital feature-driven gear purchases are rarely about getting everything I want. In most cases, it is about what things I'm willing to do without.

I still haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards keeping my Helix. Less amp models, sure, but the essentials are there plus a ton of other features that I actually use and appreciate (which aren't in the AX8). To be honest, I mainly picked up the AX8 to test the hype around Fractal's modeling. It sounds good, sure, but isn't knocking me off my feet with amazement or anything. It's just "different". With better cabinet models, I could probably dial in my old RP1000 to be pretty close to either Helix or the AX8 for a basic core tone.

With either unit, the tone is in there. The difference is in how well the person using it can dial it in.

*EDIT: I mostly play modern alternative/hard rock and some metal/prog. Sometimes solo stuff like Andy Timmons and Satch. Occasionally lower gain stuff like blues and funk. Despite mostly high gain stuff, I actually use gain and effects pretty sparingly (compared to others) because I like to control my dynamics with pick attack and OCD-level volume control tinkering.


----------



## GunpointMetal

What makes you think they're considering charging for new models/updates? Just because they did with the 500x?


----------



## jbealsmusic

GunpointMetal said:


> What makes you think they're considering charging for new models/updates? Just because they did with the 500x?


Poor choice of words on my part. No one knows if they are considering charging for new models/updates. They just have never come out and confirmed that they will stay free or frequent, despite being asked directly several times. That probably has as much to do with company policy as anything.

If asked if they will charge for future updates their pre-canned response is, "We have no plans to do so at this time." A nice political way of saying, "We want to keep them free and frequent, but anything can happen."


----------



## Digital Igloo

jbealsmusic said:


> If asked if they will charge for future updates their pre-canned response is, "We have no plans to do so at this time." A nice political way of saying, "We want to keep them free and frequent, but anything can happen."


Pretty much, yeah. Anyone who'd paint his employer into a corner by promising something so absolute on a cacheable web page is an idiot.

Yes, anything could happen. The Japanese economy could collapse and we're sold to a company with a completely different business model. Cliff and Christoph could call us up asking to sell Fractal models or Kemper profiles for an open Helix OS. In 2024, new customers used to subscription models might suddenly _insist_ on a pay-per-model-loss-leader thing.

*There are no current plans to charge for models in Helix.* How is that not a acceptable answer?


----------



## that short guy

Digital Igloo said:


> Pretty much, yeah. Anyone who'd paint his employer into a corner by promising something so absolute on a cacheable web page is an idiot.
> 
> Yes, anything could happen. The Japanese economy could collapse and we're sold to a company with a completely different business model. Cliff and Christoph could call us up asking to sell Fractal models or Kemper profiles for an open Helix OS. In 2024, new customers used to subscription models might suddenly _insist_ on a pay-per-model-loss-leader thing.
> 
> *There are no current plans to charge for models in Helix.* How is that not a acceptable answer?



I'd give you a live if I could but it seems that the likes are currently down


----------



## Fretless

Digital Igloo said:


> Pretty much, yeah. Anyone who'd paint his employer into a corner by promising something so absolute on a cacheable web page is an idiot.
> 
> Yes, anything could happen. The Japanese economy could collapse and we're sold to a company with a completely different business model. Cliff and Christoph could call us up asking to sell Fractal models or Kemper profiles for an open Helix OS. In 2024, new customers used to subscription models might suddenly _insist_ on a pay-per-model-loss-leader thing.
> 
> *There are no current plans to charge for models in Helix.* How is that not a acceptable answer?



But but but!!! Haha this post is why you're one of the best product reps out there. 

How can any company say 100% what is going to happen in the future? Sure, free upgrades forever would be nice, but at the end of the day line 6 is a company, and a company has to make money, so to expect anything is a bit silly. Not to say I don't want the upgrades to the helix to stay free, just saying that I bought a product knowing well that anything could happen with that product and it's future support.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Digital Igloo said:


> *There are no current plans to charge for models in Helix.* How is that not a acceptable answer?


That's actually the most reasonable answer to be expected from a corporate entity. I guess it's too political (non-committal) for some people.


----------



## Vrollin

I'd pay for an auto on/off Wah if it meant it would come sooner... I don't want to buy a bad horsie 2 again, it will completely go against the whole reason I got an all in one unit...


----------



## axb312

Mr. Digital Igloo ,

I understand that fizz in hi gain models can be removed to a great extent with eqing. However, why is it there in the first place? This is not something heard of with Fractal/ Kemper but keeps coming up with line 6.

Appreciate your response.


----------



## sharedEQ

axb312 said:


> Mr. Digital Igloo ,
> 
> I understand that fizz in hi gain models can be removed to a great extent with eqing. However, why is it there in the first place? This is not something heard of with Fractal/ Kemper but keeps coming up with line 6.
> 
> Appreciate your response.



One of the complaints I had with the AXE (or at least all the patches posted that I have heard) was that it lacked "fizz". If you listen to most shredders, Satriani/Vai/etc, there is a degree of harmonic presence/distortion that not all modelers get right.

It seems to me that modelers have an easier time doing the totally manicured sound with smooth top end than they do accurately modeling a distortion pedal thru a half stack.

I'm not bashing any modeler, just saying that the lack or presence of "fizz" is not a good metric to measure these boxes. I am completely confident that fizz can be dialed out with EQ, the more important question, does it sound authentic when "fizz" is desired? (Does it sound like a good distortion pedal or "bees in a box"?) 

The Helix sounds great to me.


----------



## that short guy

I'm just saying the 5150/6505 sims that other companies put out that don't have that trademark snarl and fizz may sound good, but they don't sound authentic. And it's a lot easier to EQ it out when it's too much than it is to try and add it in when it wasn't enough to begin with. At least for me it is anyway


----------



## Fretless

that short guy said:


> I'm just saying the 5150/6505 sims that other companies put out that don't have that trademark snarl and fizz may sound good, but they don't sound authentic. And it's a lot easier to EQ it out when it's too much than it is to try and add it in when it wasn't enough to begin with. At least for me it is anyway



I couldn't agree more. Plus, not only is it fairly easy to dial out fizz, but in certain situations, it really benefits to have it.


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## axb312

Fair points everyone!

Just wish at least one amp model wouldn't have the fizz...for those who want it that way by default.


----------



## that short guy

Spent some time tweaking my main Rhythm and clean patches while and this is what I've come up with. for the rhythm patch I blended the rectifier model and the elektrik. it's super "present" in the mids and highs but it makes a pretty mean sounding rhythm in my opinion

the clean is just the JC120 sim, I'm still not happy with that one.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/building-on-ideas[/SC]


----------



## Vrollin

Sounds really good!

I seriously suck at this trying to record a good tone thing. Through my power amp and cab I can get a good sound. Once I run it through any of the inboard cab sims or an ownhammer Orange 212 cab it just sounds rubbish. Either super muffled or mentally fizzy. If I try to cut the wet blanket out of it it drops the low end, if I boost the mids and high end it makes more fizz... Plus through a cab sim my palm mutes are really woofy, not tight at all. Through my actual cab they're spot on... I just don't get it...


----------



## Digital Igloo

Vrollin said:


> I seriously suck at this trying to record a good tone thing. Through my power amp and cab I can get a good sound. Once I run it through any of the inboard cab sims or an ownhammer Orange 212 cab it just sounds rubbish. Either super muffled or mentally fizzy. If I try to cut the wet blanket out of it it drops the low end, if I boost the mids and high end it makes more fizz... Plus through a cab sim my palm mutes are really woofy, not tight at all. Through my actual cab they're spot on... I just don't get it...


Some people believe (myself included) that your monitoring system is 60-70% of your tone. If your ears have become accustomed to your cab, of course Helix won't sound the same through something else, especially when that something else has smaller speakers, fewer speakers, is pointing a different direction, or is in a different place in the room.


----------



## Digital Igloo

axb312 said:


> Mr. Digital Igloo ,
> 
> I understand that fizz in hi gain models can be removed to a great extent with eqing. However, why is it there in the first place? This is not something heard of with Fractal/ Kemper but keeps coming up with line 6.
> 
> Appreciate your response.


Oh, it's elsewhere as well. This is a reaaaallllly long conversation, and requires way too much qualification; that is, it depends on the person hearing the fizz, their ears, their experience, their environment, and a bunch of other factors.

On one end, you have a golden-ear studio engineer who's spent his entire life listening to mic'ed, _cranked_ amps in the tracking room from the comfort of the control room. He may legitimately hear subtle nuances between the model and the real thing but knows how to compensate for them

On the other end, you have some kid who heard from another kid who heard from his drunk uncle who once played a POD (cabs accidentally disabled) through broken Apple earbuds that Line 6 stuff is "fizzy" and is just spreading the love.

Somewhere in the middle you have people hearing natural breakup at a much lower volume than they're accustomed to, as modelers can emulate roaring tones at bedroom levels. For example, Plexis have plenty of fizz at bedroom volume, but they get insanely fizzy when you crank them. Hearing the sound of an SM57 one inch from the cone of a 120dB Plexi&#8212;except you're hearing it at 60dB&#8212;can be disorienting. Fletcher-Munson certainly doesn't help either. In this case, the Master Volume, Bias, and Bias X parameters can work wonders.

We don't claim that people aren't hearing things that shouldn't be there, and we've discussed at length what we might do to artificially shave off some of the authentic squirrely bits. We're still in the rabbit hole.

A lot of people claim that 2.0 firmware has magically removed what they used to call crossover distortion. Except no notable model changes were made; we just tweaked the model default parameters and presets.


----------



## Vrollin

Digital Igloo said:


> Some people believe (myself included) that your monitoring system is 60-70% of your tone. If your ears have become accustomed to your cab, of course Helix won't sound the same through something else, especially when that something else has smaller speakers, fewer speakers, is pointing a different direction, or is in a different place in the room.



I'm using my audio technica athm50x's to monitor. I have listened to people's recordings on you tube, who have said no post processing, and copied there exact same settings on my helix only to get two completely wildly different amp tones when using the same monitors to listen. Listening from the direct headphone out is pretty harsh too. I could understand if there were minor differences in tone listening to monitors and then the cab but they're absolutely worlds apart for me. To the point that I'm not sure if my headphone out is functioning correctly, extreme fizz and crackle, or if dialled out massive wet blanket. I know that the problem doesn't lie with the headphones, using these as a listening platform to other people's recorded tones or albums they do not produce the fizz or wet blanket sound. However listening to any recorded tone or to headphone out there's is just no way I can replicate anything close to that dialled in sweet tone that doesn't sound like listening to a speaker covered in either crumpled cellophane or a pillow... What am I missing, isn't the point that it should be able to do this without bulk post eq and editing?


----------



## sharedEQ

Vrollin said:


> I'm using my audio technica athm50x's to monitor. I have listened to people's recordings on you tube, who have said no post processing, and copied there exact same settings on my helix only to get two completely wildly different amp tones when using the same monitors to listen. Listening from the direct headphone out is pretty harsh too. I could understand if there were minor differences in tone listening to monitors and then the cab but they're absolutely worlds apart for me. To the point that I'm not sure if my headphone out is functioning correctly, extreme fizz and crackle, or if dialled out massive wet blanket. I know that the problem doesn't lie with the headphones, using these as a listening platform to other people's recorded tones or albums they do not produce the fizz or wet blanket sound. However listening to any recorded tone or to headphone out there's is just no way I can replicate anything close to that dialled in sweet tone that doesn't sound like listening to a speaker covered in either crumpled cellophane or a pillow... What am I missing, isn't the point that it should be able to do this without bulk post eq and editing?



Try recording the signal from the USB output to your daw. When you play it back through your headphones you will discover if there is a problem with the headphone output, or if thats just the way the patch sounds.


----------



## Fretless

Vrollin said:


> What am I missing, isn't the point that it should be able to do this without bulk post eq and editing?



Are you copying their patch piece for piece all the way down to the cabinet impulse? I've found a lot of the videos on youtube are slightly misleading, because when they show you their settings, they're not showing you 100% of the settings available, which can change things quite a bit. 

Another variance is your guitar and pickup choice, which will lead to their settings sounding drastically different than yours, for example, if I had my pickups pretty far away from the strings, I could use a higher gain setting to reach the same level of breakup that someone with a much closer pickup (of the same type) would get at a much lower volume. Type of strings can have an impact, steel versus nickle strings can make a difference, scale length, tension, and so many other things can cause differences in your tone over what other people get.


When I got my Helix I wanted to try some other peoples patches just to see what others came up with, I downloaded a few that sounded great for others, but my guitar sounded shrill through. However, I have made patches that I think sound absolutely phenomenal, so I do think a lot of the problems come from differences outside of the Helix.


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> Sounds really good!
> 
> I seriously suck at this trying to record a good tone thing. Through my power amp and cab I can get a good sound. Once I run it through any of the inboard cab sims or an ownhammer Orange 212 cab it just sounds rubbish. Either super muffled or mentally fizzy. If I try to cut the wet blanket out of it it drops the low end, if I boost the mids and high end it makes more fizz... Plus through a cab sim my palm mutes are really woofy, not tight at all. Through my actual cab they're spot on... I just don't get it...



Just give it time and practice and you'll get it. If you want I can give you my my patch so you can see how I did everything


----------



## Vrollin

that short guy said:


> Just give it time and practice and you'll get it. If you want I can give you my my patch so you can see how I did everything



If I could grab it that would be great! I love the helix, but its just this whole area that I am so unstuck and so frustrated with...


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> If I could grab it that would be great! I love the helix, but its just this whole area that I am so unstuck and so frustrated with...



Lol that was me 3 years ago with the POD HD. It wasn't until I was actual put on bed resr because I tore my Achilles that I spent several hours just learning howv to use it. Luckily most of that knowledge transferred. Keep working away at it, you'll get it.

I'll post the patch when I get home tonight.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Vrollin said:


> I'm using my audio technica athm50x's to monitor. I have listened to people's recordings on you tube, who have said no post processing, and copied there exact same settings on my helix only to get two completely wildly different amp tones when using the same monitors to listen. Listening from the direct headphone out is pretty harsh too. I could understand if there were minor differences in tone listening to monitors and then the cab but they're absolutely worlds apart for me. To the point that I'm not sure if my headphone out is functioning correctly, extreme fizz and crackle, or if dialled out massive wet blanket. I know that the problem doesn't lie with the headphones, using these as a listening platform to other people's recorded tones or albums they do not produce the fizz or wet blanket sound. However listening to any recorded tone or to headphone out there's is just no way I can replicate anything close to that dialled in sweet tone that doesn't sound like listening to a speaker covered in either crumpled cellophane or a pillow... What am I missing, isn't the point that it should be able to do this without bulk post eq and editing?


Whoa. It might be the AT headphones you're using. There's nothing wrong with them, but they're 38 Ohms, which is really low. Helix's headphone amp is LOUD and designed to drive higher-impedance studio headphones above stage volume. You may be experiencing some distortion, especially if the PHONES knob is past 10 o'clock or so. If you have a friend with higher-impedance headphones (150-200 Ohm or higher?), it might be worth an experiment.

In addition, headphones sound _radically_ different from a cab in a room. Even the size of your head can notably alter bass response.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Vrollin

I'll see what I can do to check out some other headphones. It just strange that even if I crank them through the laptop they don't distort in the same way. It's not like they aren't capable of providing tight undistorted playback at high volumes... I'll try listening to some clips through the laptop and then using the helix as a sound card later on.
That said, looking at the manual last night, the headphone out is 12ohms from memory, so I would have thought they should be ok...?


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Digital Igloo said:


> Even the size of your head can notably alter bass response..



What's wrong with the size of his head?  But really, that's pretty crazy


----------



## Digital Igloo

Vrollin said:


> I'll see what I can do to check out some other headphones. It just strange that even if I crank them through the laptop they don't distort in the same way.


Yep, and high-impedance headphones behave almost in the opposite way, as laptop headphone amps typically can't drive them properly.


> That said, looking at the manual last night, the headphone out is 12ohms from memory, so I would have thought they should be ok...?


Correct, but that's independent of the amplifier inside. We could've designed the headphone amp to accommodate Apple earbuds (free with phone) or Sennheiser HD600s ($300), and we erred on the side of pro. Some manufacturers try to find a happy medium, but since Helix can process multiple band members simultaneously, we wanted the headphone out to be able to drive multiple pairs of cans with a splitter.

To make laptops and smartphones more and more battery-efficient, consumer headphone amps get wimpier and wimpier, requiring headphone manufacturers to make lower and lower-impedance cans to hear music loud enough. Fifteen years ago all headphones would've probably sounded great through Helix.

That's not to say that your AT headphones' impedance is definitely the culprit, but it's worth checking out another pair or two.

FWIW, the Apple EarPods (45 Ohm) I have here in the office sound marginally passable from my MacBook Pro and TERRIBLE through Helix. The Sennheiser HD280 Pros (64 Ohm) sound m'eh from the laptop and clean/decent through Helix, though they're voiced a bit boxy for my tastes. The Senneheiser HD600s (300 Ohm) at home sound good through the laptop and absolutely stellar through Helix.


----------



## Vrollin

Is there such a device like an attenuator for a headphone jack that could be plugged in line to use any headphone and have them sound reasonable??


----------



## axb312

Ummm... will the Helix sound good with my M-Audio AV40s?


----------



## Fretless

Vrollin said:


> Is there such a device like an attenuator for a headphone jack that could be plugged in line to use any headphone and have them sound reasonable??



You can find a headphone amp on like amazon that could help you out.


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> If I could grab it that would be great! I love the helix, but its just this whole area that I am so unstuck and so frustrated with...



Hey man sorry for the delay, life kinda got a little crazy yesterday. But here's the tone I use regularly. you'll probably need to make small eq adjustments for your specific guitar (I use mostly all mahogany guitars with the EMG 57/66 sets in my 6, 7, and 8's). 

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2273400/


----------



## Digital Igloo

axb312 said:


> Ummm... will the Helix sound good with my M-Audio AV40s?


They only go down to 85Hz, so don't expect to get much thump from them, but I'm generally a fan of M-Audio monitors. Inherited a pair of BX8s that are on my desk right now.


----------



## Fretless

Digital Igloo said:


> They only go down to 85Hz, so don't expect to get much thump from them, but I'm generally a fan of M-Audio monitors. Inherited a pair of BX8s that are on my desk right now.



I rock a pair of BX8a's and they sound great haha. The SBX10 subwoofer would probably be a good match for the AV's that he has.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Not sure if this was posted before, but I figured it might interest some people:


----------



## spn_phoenix_92

Finally got to try one of these out the other day at Sweetwater, and it was BA. Didn't have a lot of time to really mess with settings, but from some of the presets I played, it sounded great. It responded like an actual tube amp, and is definitely a huge step above any of their POD products. I've heard a lot of metal tones, but haven't really heard how it handles Ambient or Post-Metal stuff. Anyone have a clip or a video that kinda shows that stuff off? Especially if there's any big, shimmery reverbs or a reverse delay.


----------



## Gitte

Hey there,
I have a question about the preset switching. I have an issue that there is quite a lot of latency when I change the preset. Do you guys know how I can fix this issue? 
Thank you guys


----------



## jbealsmusic

Gitte said:


> Hey there,
> I have a question about the preset switching. I have an issue that there is quite a lot of latency when I change the preset. Do you guys know how I can fix this issue?
> Thank you guys


That exists on literally every digital device and is unavoidable. KPA, Axe, Helix, and all the way down the line. It's slightly better on some units vs others, but they all do it.

The best way to get around it would be to stay within a single preset and use the "Snapshots" for major tone changes within a song. Then maybe only change presets between songs.


----------



## Vrollin

I seriously doubt there is any need to swap presets within a song when we now have snapshots and as much dsp that the unit holds...


----------



## that short guy

Vrollin said:


> I seriously doubt there is any need to swap presets within a song when we now have snapshots and as much dsp that the unit holds...



For the most part I agree with you. But I also like to do dual amp and/or dual cab set upsomething to get my tones so it eats an incredible amount of dsp. If I were're to try and blend my main rhythm and clean tones into one patch there'd be 3 amps and 4 cabs before I added in anything else


----------



## Gitte

Thats what I mean. I switch several times within a song between crunch and clean sounds with delays and reverb. I will investigate a little more. thanks anyways


----------



## Vrollin

Gitte said:


> Thats what I mean. I switch several times within a song between crunch and clean sounds with delays and reverb. I will investigate a little more. thanks anyways



How many different amps and cabs, if cabs at all, are you using per song? Don't forget that with snapshots you can assign a large number of parameter changes with each snapshot, that means you can use one amp block but have completely different amounts of gain and an alternate eq etc per snapshot of you wanted...


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

If you can handle The Jesus for a minute then this video has a few crunchy, delay-ey, and ambient demos that sound ok.

Line 6 Helix - First Impressions and Review, Free AC30 Dual Cabs Patch


----------



## spn_phoenix_92

My cousin grabbed one of these the other day, I managed to toss around a short Post-Rock/Metal riff to kind of test it out. It definitely got the job done 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/andrewwukusick/they-lie-atop-ravens-peak-in-progress[/SC]


----------



## spn_phoenix_92

A friend of mine just made a demo showing the metal amps of the Helix, He's making a series of videos that will go into depth of everything in it, & how it works.


----------



## icipher

So I struggle to get my tube amps as flexible as I want for live use. I am wondering if the Helix would make a good replacement.

I am tired of buying pedals and running a million wires for different power supplies etc, worrying about FX loop vs front, and not having an amp with a loop button on the footwitch.

Would the helix make a good live unit replacement for me? 

Would I simply run the Helix to a power amp and then into my 4x12? Is it that simple?


----------



## HighGain510

I didn't see it in here yet, but Ola posted a comparison video showing the differences between the Line 6 Helix and the Fractal AX8 and he was pretty impartial (and I'm assuming since Line 6 sent him one, he probably had to TRY to be somewhat fair about how he dialed it in, we all know he can dial in metal tones like a boss ) in the review and highlighted the things he liked better about the Helix vs the AX8:



For those who don't want to watch the whole thing, the basic summary was that the AX8 beat it in tone (Helix had more high end sizzle and less punch than the corresponding models on the Fractal) but the user interface on the Helix was much more user friendly and easier to just pick up and get started.  Ola even tried both units with his own custom IR's and still found the tones on the Fractal unit to be a bit better overall. 

I haven't had a chance to try out the Helix myself yet, would love to compare it to the AX8 as I was impressed with the UI from their release vids, but Ola's vid does temper my expectations a bit with regard to the overall tones for metal use. To me it seems like the ultimate unit would be the proccessors and code from the Fractal and the UI/floorboard from the Helix!


----------



## jbealsmusic

icipher said:


> So I struggle to get my tube amps as flexible as I want for live use. I am wondering if the Helix would make a good replacement.
> 
> I am tired of buying pedals and running a million wires for different power supplies etc,


It will definitely help with this! Digital all-in-one units are killer for increasing flexibility and simplifying your connections and power requirements.



> worrying about FX loop vs front, and not having an amp with a loop button on the footwitch.


You'll run into many of the same issues setting up Helix. It is a virtual signal chain. You have to put the amp/cab/effects in the right order to get the sound you want and properly assign everything to footswitches to have the changes you want. There might be a bit of a learning curve there. But it comes quickly.



> Would the helix make a good live unit replacement for me?
> 
> Would I simply run the Helix to a power amp and then into my 4x12? Is it that simple?


Almost that simple. You will have to tweak the sound a bit to suit your cab, but yeah. Pretty simple. And, awesome on the back when loading/unloading gear and setting up.


----------



## icipher

jbealsmusic said:


> It will definitely help with this! Digital all-in-one units are killer for increasing flexibility and simplifying your connections and power requirements.
> 
> You'll run into many of the same issues setting up Helix. It is a virtual signal chain. You have to put the amp/cab/effects in the right order to get the sound you want and properly assign everything to footswitches to have the changes you want. There might be a bit of a learning curve there. But it comes quickly.
> 
> Almost that simple. You will have to tweak the sound a bit to suit your cab, but yeah. Pretty simple. And, awesome on the back when loading/unloading gear and setting up.



Sounds like there is an initial setup period, but once setup it's ready to rock?

Also, I play high gain metal. Think In Flames crossed with some of the modern"djent"(i hate using that term). I've historically played VHT, Peavey, Laney etc. Will the Helix be able to emulate those tones well?


----------



## icipher

Also, with a decent power amp, should this be able to replace my Laney Ironheart head and pedal board for live performance or are most guys just running these out front as strictly effects units?

How "tubey" do these things feel?


----------



## lewis

icipher said:


> Also, with a decent power amp, should this be able to replace my Laney Ironheart head and pedal board for live performance or are most guys just running these out front as strictly effects units?
> 
> *How "tubey" do these things feel*?



This is exactly why, in the end I just went Kemper, when I had my saved up £1500 funds and had a decision between the 3 to choose from. I wanted to go the route that gave me the most realistic tube amp feel aswell as sound. At the time the Helix was really new and that hadnt really been showcased so.

I own the HD pro rack, the HD bean, full pod farm etc previous, so I had experience with their sounds and I wasnt convinced I would get the "feel" from the Helix so went elsewhere for a change. I actually hope though, that they nailed feel.


----------



## that short guy

Does anyone use the ownhammer heavy hitter IR's? If so can you do me a favor and post a clip comparing them to the similar cab that's stock in the HX (the HX mesa cab vs the ownhammer Mesa cab for example). I'm on the fence about them and just want someone to push me to one side or the other


----------



## Ericjutsu

that short guy said:


> Does anyone use the ownhammer heavy hitter IR's? If so can you do me a favor and post a clip comparing them to the similar cab that's stock in the HX (the HX mesa cab vs the ownhammer Mesa cab for example). I'm on the fence about them and just want someone to push me to one side or the other


I did a comparison between the.stock cabs and Ownhammer.cabs from.the.Justin York.Collection. I'll give you the link once.I get home.from.work

Here's the comparison. I did a comparison between the stock mesa cab and various IRs including, Ownhammer.

[SC] https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/sets/line-6-helix-cab-comparison[/SC]

I do own the Heavy Hitters Collection as well. Maybe I'll do an updated one soon.


----------



## spn_phoenix_92

icipher said:


> Also, with a decent power amp, should this be able to replace my Laney Ironheart head and pedal board for live performance or are most guys just running these out front as strictly effects units?
> 
> How "tubey" do these things feel?



Actually, they nailed it pretty great. So much more natural tube-like response than any non tube amp/modeler that I've ever played.


----------



## that short guy

Ericjutsu said:


> I did a comparison between the.stock cabs and Ownhammer.cabs from.the.Justin York.Collection. I'll give you the link once.I get home.from.work
> 
> Here's the comparison. I did a comparison between the stock mesa cab and various IRs including, Ownhammer.
> 
> [SC] https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/sets/line-6-helix-cab-comparison[/SC]
> 
> I do own the Heavy Hitters Collection as well. Maybe I'll do an updated one soon.



Hey sorry about the delay in this response,work got crazy for a little bit. But thanks for posting your comparison. They definitely sounded great


----------



## Radau

Working on a Tesseract "One" style tone, I'm not a guitarist but I think it's pretty close.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Radau said:


> Working on a Tesseract "One" style tone, I'm not a guitarist but I think it's pretty close.




cool! Care to share the patch?


----------



## Radau

Yeah I'm just working on a version of it with stock cabs at the moment, I'll let you know when it's done!


----------



## Ericjutsu

Radau said:


> Yeah I'm just working on a version of it with stock cabs at the moment, I'll let you know when it's done!


What IR did you use for the original one that you posted?


----------



## Radau

One of the Ownhammer Mesa cabs with a 57, here's a version of it with the stock cabs. If you're gonna use an OH Mesa IR just remove the second row of EQ's.

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2542050/


----------



## Ericjutsu

Radau said:


> One of the Ownhammer Mesa cabs with a 57, here's a version of it with the stock cabs. If you're gonna use an OH Mesa IR just remove the second row of EQ's.
> 
> http://line6.com/customtone/tone/2542050/




Cool. Thanks I'll try it out. Which mesa pack was it? Ownhammer have like 6 of them lol. I personally like the JYC 412 pack the best.


----------



## Vrollin

Careful downloading patches with IRs in it, it's been known, I have first hand experience also, that loading a user patch with an ir can cause helix to lock up for some users. If you do load it just be sure to back up all of your own user presets first so you don't risk losing anything!


----------



## that short guy

I haven't really contributed anything to this thread in awhile so here we go

I've been messing around trying to make a heavy/djenty tone close to the tone that After the Burial use on the song Mire but I wanted it to be a little more bright/present than theirs. I used the Mark IV Lead channel with a dual 4x12 cab (the Mesa and the Blackback 30) and this is what I got. I like it, It's definitely heavy and blends well with my bass patch, but I think I might've gone just a little over board on the brightness lol

Guitar used was a mahogany/koa Carvin DC800 with EMG 57/66

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/helix-mark-iv-tone-test[/SC]


----------



## Radau

Some modern bass


----------



## that short guy

Radau said:


> Some modern bass




dude that bass tone is just nasty sounding.... I mean that in a very good way. I know a lot of it is probably your bass but what the hell did you use lol


----------



## Cheesehead

Hey guys. I've had the Helix for a little less than a week but I am really digging it. This is a Mark IV patch I made that uses the orange cab with a 57 dynamic mic. There is no post processing on any of these. The helix patch straight into the mix.

Mix: https://soundcloud.com/jaydub-music/jud-drop-d-helix

Isolated Guitar (L+R): https://soundcloud.com/jaydub-music/helix-raw-tone


----------



## Radau

that short guy said:


> dude that bass tone is just nasty sounding.... I mean that in a very good way. I know a lot of it is probably your bass but what the hell did you use lol



I'm using three separate paths, a DI/Sub, Cail 400 Channel 1 Pre and the ANGL Meteor with some Ownhammer Ampeg IR's


----------



## that short guy

Lately I've been messing around on my acoustic a lot and I've found that getting a good acoustic patch in the HX is a huge pain in the ass. This is the best I got after many tweaking sessions but I'm still not too happy with it. But on a side note I do like the effect you get if you split a signal with a hall reverb on one side and the particle reverb on the other on an acoustic.

what do you guys think?

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/acoustic-thing[/SC]




Radau said:


> I'm using three separate paths, a DI/Sub, Cail 400 Channel 1 Pre and the ANGL Meteor with some Ownhammer Ampeg IR's



I haven't thought about using a a 3rd signal path for a DI... Might have to give it a shot.


----------



## Cheesehead

Here's the Cali Model with no post processing...I am kind of going through the different high gain amps and so far haven't found that any of them so far aren't "usable" ....really loving the helix

https://soundcloud.com/jaydub-music/helix-chug


----------



## Alex Kenivel

I'm happy to say that tomorrow I will be the proud owner of a helix


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

what amp sim are you guys using for a super clean sound?


----------



## Ericjutsu

Captain Butterscotch said:


> what amp sim are you guys using for a super clean sound?



the Roland JC120 is good for that.


----------



## Blasphemer

Captain Butterscotch said:


> what amp sim are you guys using for a super clean sound?



Also the US double nrm. Loving the sound of that one


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Blasphemer said:


> Also the US double nrm. Loving the sound of that one





Ericjutsu said:


> the Roland JC120 is good for that.



Thanks! I hear so much about the Dr. Z and the Matchless that I was messing with those a lot and was just wondering what other people were using. If I ever get around to it I'll upload clips.


----------



## metal_sam14

I have been loving the Essex 30 for cleans lately. Ever since I played a real AC-30 and fell in love with the chimey cleans. All the suggestions above are good too, the JC120 with a touch of chorus is fantastic.


----------



## Element0s

Music store I teach at offered me 15% off a Helix and 0% financing so I just had to order one. Should be here inside two weeks! 

I only recently stepping into the serous modeling game after picking up an Axe-FX standard last month and I've been pretty happy with it so far. From what I can see, the Helix will be a pretty serious upgrade and I'm looking forward to condensing my live rig a bit. Might do a side-by-side comparison video or something.


----------



## Digital Igloo

2.10 is live. Release Notes here.


----------



## Blasphemer

Archon model! Yesss!!


----------



## Fretless

I'm drooling for that archon model. Sadly my rack is at the practice space, and I won't be there until next monday!


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Digital Igloo, Line 6 dudes and dudettes, everybody,

"Damn. Damn. Daaaaamn."

That's pretty much my first 45 minutes with this update and the Archon Lead sim. As far as an update goes, a "minor" update with 3 very good amp sims is pretty crazy. It gives me confidence that I invested in a worthwhile product. So much was done and the tweaks were all asked for. Ideascale is obviously looked at. Keep at it!


----------



## Vrollin

From what i can tell we now have switchless wah? Diving in to find out when i get home!


----------



## Radau

Was playing around with the Archon model, it's rad as ....!
I'm using it on guitar and bass in this demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNCP7alZjOc


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Radau said:


> Was playing around with the Archon model, it's rad as ....!
> I'm using it on guitar and bass in this demo




nice!
are you using an OD in front of the Archon for the guitar?


----------



## Radau

Just the usual tubescreamer with the gain on 0 and level at 10


----------



## Cheesehead

The Archon is great from what little playing I've had with it so far. I would describe it as open sounding with smooth distortion and plenty of it. First time updating my Helix And it kicked butt if you ask me.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

[sc]https://soundcloud.com/experiments-1/line6-helic-archetype-lead-demo[/sc]


----------



## that short guy

You know the selfish part of me wants more updates more often now lol. 

But the actual normal human being part of me is very happy with the helix/line 6 team and with the updates they've released. They really have been listening to people and the updates they've released have all been great


----------



## Element0s

Whoa! Those Archon patches! Very cool. Can't wait for mine to arrive now!


----------



## metal_sam14

The Archon model is all kinds of rad.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Ordered a helix and a pair of Yamaha hs7's. Should be here tomorrow. I'm excited to dig into it. I've never really had a modeler, so it should be a learning experience.


----------



## Element0s

Got my Helix on Saturday! Took a bit of trial and error and a lot of cuss wors to get it playing nice with my PC (prolly my computers fault, not the Helix) but I'm enjoying it so far. Sounds good right out of the box, interface is dead simple compared to my Axe-FX and it REALLY started to open up when I crammed my 3 Sigma IR's into her. Can't wait to jam with it! Will post my own audio/video clips soon.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Please, go away. That's by far the worst thing that the Helix has spawned and I personally feel like it's smushing whatever sense of community might have come from the product. Preset selling is icky.


----------



## Vrollin

metal_sam14 said:


> The Archon model is all kinds of rad.





Sick tone!


----------



## Cheesehead

I am a little hesitant to use the word 'djent' but I was going after a more midrange high end focused metal tone that could tighten up. Let me know what you guys think.

tone: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ave1965diggiiz3/MDRNElectrikCali.hlx?dl=0

demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkTffbQMXA

anyone else really digging the stock cabs lately? I love using other IR's but I think the Helix Cabs actually do a pretty good job


----------



## Element0s

I keep saying that I'll do a tone demo or something with the Helix but I keep forgetting because I'm having so much fun dickin' around and just playing the thing. Set up a couple patches for gig volume using my ART SLA-1 and my 2x12 cabinet and road tested them at rehearsal last night for the first time. Sounded really good. Band mates were mighty impressed and definitely agree that it's my best-sounding rig yet. I've been loving the Archon models, though I've gotta some great hi-gain tones out of the Soldano, ENGL, an Marshalls as well. Sounds great through my actual cab but on the computer it's pretty much user IRs or bust for me.

Programming the Helix is pretty fun. I just found this video on using the expression pedal to "blend" two very different versions of the same tone in one patch and I'll definitely try using this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbLQIt_WD78


----------



## Zalbu

How many different effects are in this thing, and how much control do you have over them? I'm debating about what high end modeler I should get when my budget allows for it, and I've been leaning towards the Axe-Fx, partly because it has so many effects and you can tweak so many little parameters in them. But how does it look on the Helix? I feel like I'll probably be better off with something that doesn't have as many different settings to dick around with like the Axe-Fx since I doubt I'll use all of it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Zalbu said:


> How many different effects are in this thing, and how much control do you have over them? I'm debating about what high end modeler I should get when my budget allows for it, and I've been leaning towards the Axe-Fx, partly because it has so many effects and you can tweak so many little parameters in them. But how does it look on the Helix? I feel like I'll probably be better off with something that doesn't have as many different settings to dick around with like the Axe-Fx since I doubt I'll use all of it.


From the limited time I had with an Axe-FX, it has a many more things to edit and there are probably a few device-specific effects that are really cool, but the UI is kinda gross unless you hook it up to a PC. I was up between the two (and the AX-8, but I really didn't want to wait a million years) and the UI on the Helix itself sold me. Super easy to navigate (you can even edit effects/parameters with your feet, if you want) and with the edition of the Snapshots features, you can alter up to 64 parameters throughout the patch with just one switch, much like "scenes" on the Fractal stuff.


----------



## Element0s

Did a late-night new song demo for the band mates over the weekend using just the Helix + programmed drums. Just tried to bang out everything in a single take. But I'm very happy with the tone. Easily the best I've had with any modeling unit, WAY BETTER than Bias FX, which required a ton of extra EQ and effects added on the back end to sound decent. 

Take a gander. I'm not really into super modern djent stuff. I'm more Manowar, Fates Warning and Blind Guardian and Candlemass. Not my best playing but I'm happy with the tone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbp0gswtd1dl4sf/Grey Maiden Demo.mp3?dl=0

I'm using the ENGL with an ENGL impulse from 3 Sigma Audio. I was trying to get a Michael Romeo sorta tone by looking at his gear selection and recreating that rig, but couldn't really get there so I just tweaked it to my own tastes. I high cut the IRs at about 8k and low cut at ~90. I also use a tube mic preamp before the amp section and a subtle LA studio comp at the end of everything. There's an OCD/Tube Screamer in there and at least one EQ. Plus a bit of plate reverb and the digital delay for the leads. 

My band is in the studio this week/last weekend laying down tracks for a cover song. My XLR connections were getting some background noise so he ran me into 1/4" stereo with some DI's and the signal cleaned right up. Our engineer, an old-school dude who's done some 450 album is very impressed with the Helix. Can't wait to do my overdubs with the cabinet.

Goes without saying that I'm very happy with my purchase.


----------



## Mathemagician

Line 6 just announced "Helix Native", a plug-in version of the Helix. No price point yet.

Source: their Instagram & website


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Finally replacing Pod Farm? About time.


----------



## Vrollin

Mathemagician said:


> Line 6 just announced "Helix Native", a plug-in version of the Helix. No price point yet.
> 
> Source: their Instagram & website



Hopefully a free download for owners of helix...


----------



## jjcor

Vrollin said:


> Hopefully a free download for owners of helix...



I read on the Facebook forum that it will cost current Helix owners $99. But would be able to register it up to 4 computers at a time.


----------



## jbealsmusic

jjcor said:


> I read on the Facebook forum that it will cost current Helix owners $99. But would be able to register it up to 4 computers at a time.


$399 for non-Helix owners.

Wonder if it will receive all the same updates.


----------



## Vrollin

jjcor said:


> I read on the Facebook forum that it will cost current Helix owners $99. But would be able to register it up to 4 computers at a time.



Hopefully then the editor is updated to include sound meters too. It's about all I want/need from the whole thing....


----------



## Blasphemer

Holy crap I am so stoked for the new Sunn model and the Darkglass pedal. Those alone are going to make this update rule my face off.

Still no input/output/GR meteres, though...


----------



## Digital Igloo

jbealsmusic said:


> Wonder if it will receive all the same updates.


It will. If Helix/Helix Rack get updated, so will Helix Native. Ideally, at the same time, but time will tell.



Vrollin said:


> Hopefully then the editor is updated to include sound meters too. It's about all I want/need from the whole thing...


We're discontinuing the current Helix editor in favor of one based on Helix Native's GUI engine. That's why we haven't yet improved our update procedure; there's no point if we're dumping the thing.

The new Helix Edit software will still be free, and there's a chance it could get meters. A bit too early to confirm or deny; the plug-in's not even in beta yet, and the new editor comes after its release.


----------



## Vrollin

Digital Igloo said:


> It will. If Helix/Helix Rack get updated, so will Helix Native. Ideally, at the same time, but time will tell.
> 
> We're discontinuing the current Helix editor in favor of one based on Helix Native's GUI engine. That's why we haven't yet improved our update procedure; there's no point if we're dumping the thing.
> 
> The new Helix Edit software will still be free, and there's a chance it could get meters. A bit too early to confirm or deny; the plug-in's not even in beta yet, and the new editor comes after its release.



So safe to assume helix editor will be dumped on its arse in favor of forcing people to fork out more for the native plugin so they can have access to basic features like metering or potentially even just for the sake of doing updates....? Its starting to head the way I feared it would for this unit, updates and features only for those willing to pay more and more....


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

It hardly seems to be "forcing" anyone to "fork out" anything if it is free.

It will surely work as a marketing tool (for those who already own the Helix) seeing that it will use the same GUI as the Native.


----------



## mikah912

Vrollin said:


> So safe to assume helix editor will be dumped on its arse in favor of forcing people to fork out more for the native plugin so they can have access to basic features like metering or potentially even just for the sake of doing updates....? Its starting to head the way I feared it would for this unit, updates and features only for those willing to pay more and more....



Dude, you literally quoted him saying "The new Helix Edit software WILL STILL BE FREE", but you're still busting his balls over "paying more and more"????

For real?

These are the days Digital Igloo questions his life choices, methinks.....

Helix is going on a year and a half old, and - counting the announced FREE February update - they've churned out a boatload of free content and functionality that's gone above and beyond.

I mean, PRS Archons, Darkglass pedal AND a new version of the Big Bottom? They're virtually checking off every request from the modern metal community. Still, the complaints......


----------



## Vrollin

mikah912 said:


> Dude, you literally quoted him saying "The new Helix Edit software WILL STILL BE FREE", but you're still busting his balls over "paying more and more"????
> 
> For real?
> 
> These are the days Digital Igloo questions his life choices, methinks.....
> 
> Helix is going on a year and a half old, and - counting the announced FREE February update - they've churned out a boatload of free content and functionality that's gone above and beyond.
> 
> I mean, PRS Archons, Darkglass pedal AND a new version of the Big Bottom? They're virtually checking off every request from the modern metal community. Still, the complaints......



You missed the part where the Helix Native plugin comes at a cost? Its right there, two or three posts ago, before yours and who ever else it was scoffing that everything will remain free. The plugin, as stated will have more features than the editor, this is my main contention. Fork up, or miss out on the additional features, this isn't an add on to a $200 unit, I paid $2400 when this first come out to get my hands on one, they're now $3000 new in stores here, its a real kick in the teeth that they would now offer more features but not without another cash grab. Of course the editor will be updated over time, but most likely only to support the new firmware on the helix itself and not with new features. Remember L6 is a business...

The feb announcement has refinements for reverbs, and a butt load of bass stuff, which is great for bass players. As for functionality that goes above and beyond, this is clearly where you are getting yourself confused with the editor and the plug in which comes with a price tag...

Yup they have had a couple of amp updates, my fav update so far hasn't even been an amp update, its been snapshots and the ability to have a switchless wah, but the fact remains that they still have missed a few of the basics, metering, tuner in editor, saving of global presets and IR's, there's more, but these are a few of the small things that I still look at and say wtf why are these not here.

Sorry that my concerns for continued free support and longevity of a product I own has offended you so deeply. Out of curiosity, do you have one yourself?


----------



## mikah912

Vrollin said:


> You missed the part where the Helix Native plugin comes at a cost? Its right there, two or three posts ago, before yours and who ever else it was scoffing that everything will remain free. The plugin, as stated will have more features than the editor, this is my main contention. Fork up, or miss out on the additional features, this isn't an add on to a $200 unit, I paid $2400 when this first come out to get my hands on one, they're now $3000 new in stores here, its a real kick in the teeth that they would now offer more features but not without another cash grab. Of course the editor will be updated over time, but most likely only to support the new firmware on the helix itself and not with new features. Remember L6 is a business...
> 
> The feb announcement has refinements for reverbs, and a butt load of bass stuff, which is great for bass players. As for functionality that goes above and beyond, this is clearly where you are getting yourself confused with the editor and the plug in which comes with a price tag...
> 
> Yup they have had a couple of amp updates, my fav update so far hasn't even been an amp update, its been snapshots and the ability to have a switchless wah, but the fact remains that they still have missed a few of the basics, metering, tuner in editor, saving of global presets and IR's, there's more, but these are a few of the small things that I still look at and say wtf why are these not here.
> 
> Sorry that my concerns for continued free support and longevity of a product I own has offended you so deeply. Out of curiosity, do you have one yourself?



I do, indeed, own a Helix. Love it.

But just so I'm crystal clear...you expect Line 6 to create a plugin version of their $1500 flagship platform...then release it for free? 

Who does that? Not Fractal. Not Kemper. Not anybody. 

Fractal charges for the full version of Cab Lab and for every IR pack they sell. Line 6 is putting out free IRs and free hybrid cabs, and makes all of the Editing software free. Yes, for the plugin - which is a _software version of Helix_ to broaden its appeal - they are asking for money, but you don't *have* to buy it. The hardware Helix will keep feature parity with the software version, so you will never miss out on anything, and what's more, you can _already_ reamp with the hardware unit once you have it set up properly in the DAW of your choice. This simply allows you to get Helix tones without having your machine plugged up AND lets you run as many instances of it as your CPU/RAM will allow.

Again....no hardware Helix owner is compelled to buy this and they will miss no features when they don't. And this is hardly a "cash grab". If anything, it's risky because it has no hardware dongle requirement, and could very well be cracked....thereby doing serious damage to sales of the platform in ANY form factor. Not requiring you to own a Helix to have it is a huge gamble.

And let's not act like Helix has had "a couple" of amp updates. There have been three ones - each with multiple channels/models added. They've added lots of effects. The February update will be the fourth with lots of both, plus new hybrid cabs. As you said, the Snapshots feature is huge. All this in 18 months. If that doesn't give you confidence for the "continued free support and longevity"...what would? 

Is there someone else releasing a software version of their flagship hardware...AT ALL, much less for free? Is there someone else piling on bass models and different fuzzes and overdrives? When was the last time Fractal added _any_ overdrive to their lineup? Or bass amps and preamps? Or _new_ effects?

I can get if you're skittish about Line 6 charging for stuff and not providing a ton of updates based on past behavior in the X3/HD era, but I think it's absurd to ignore how they've been busting their butt to disprove it since Helix has been launched. 

They're not just matching what the expectations are in the Fractal/Kemper era....they're going beyond them with moves like Helix Native.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Vrollin said:


> You missed the part where the Helix Native plugin comes at a cost?


Huh? Helix Native is a VST/AU/AAX plug-in for your DAW. It has nothing to do with Helix or Helix Rack other than having the same models and the ability to share presets. It's a completely separate product for a completely different use case&#8212;and in many cases, a different customer.

The Helix _Editor_ is something else entirely and will continue to be free.

Are Helix Rack owners entitled to Helix Control for free too? At least that's part of the actual hardware ecosystem.


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

Digital Igloo said:


> Huh? Helix Native is a VST/AU/AAX plug-in for your DAW. It has nothing to do with Helix or Helix Rack other than having the same models and the ability to share presets. It's a completely separate product for a completely different use caseand in many cases, a different customer.
> 
> The Helix _Editor_ is something else entirely and will continue to be free.
> 
> Are Helix Rack owners entitled to Helix Control for free too? At least that's part of the actual hardware ecosystem.



No worries DI. I own the rack+controller, and I think $99 is a really good price point for Helix Native. I will be grabbing it at launch, and I am not alone.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Vrollin said:


> You missed the part where the Helix Native plugin comes at a cost? Its right there, two or three posts ago, before yours and who ever else it was scoffing that everything will remain free. The plugin, as stated will have more features than the editor, this is my main contention. Fork up, or miss out on the additional features, this isn't an add on to a $200 unit, I paid $2400 when this first come out to get my hands on one, they're now $3000 new in stores here, its a real kick in the teeth that they would now offer more features but not without another cash grab. Of course the editor will be updated over time, but most likely only to support the new firmware on the helix itself and not with new features. Remember L6 is a business...
> 
> The feb announcement has refinements for reverbs, and a butt load of bass stuff, which is great for bass players. As for functionality that goes above and beyond, this is clearly where you are getting yourself confused with the editor and the plug in which comes with a price tag...
> 
> Yup they have had a couple of amp updates, my fav update so far hasn't even been an amp update, its been snapshots and the ability to have a switchless wah, but the fact remains that they still have missed a few of the basics, metering, tuner in editor, saving of global presets and IR's, there's more, but these are a few of the small things that I still look at and say wtf why are these not here.
> 
> Sorry that my concerns for continued free support and longevity of a product I own has offended you so deeply. Out of curiosity, do you have one yourself?



Did you also miss the part where they're are re-doing the FREE EDITOR to reflect the interface of the VST? If you need metering that badly right now, just hook the Helix up to your DAW and, ya know, meter your levels.....so far the only thing that's going to cost money is the VST that is entirely different product than the hardware, and if you already own a Helix, you get it at 25% of retail.....Are you expecting the VST for free?


----------



## Radau

Periphery Alpha/Omega tone, soz I'm not really a guitarist.


----------



## jjcor

Radau said:


> Periphery Alpha/Omega tone, soz I'm not really a guitarist.




Nice! Want to share the patch possibly?


----------



## Radau

jjcor said:


> Nice! Want to share the patch possibly?



Alrighty, so it's set up in 4 Snap/4 Stomp mode but there's 8 snaps in total, Lo Gain, Hi Gain, Lo Gain Lead, Hi Gain Lead, Clean, Clean w/ Dotted Delay, Ambient Clean & Ambient Lead.

The guitar I used was an Ibanez Prestige RGD2127FX with Seymour Duncan Pegasus & Sentient pickups, so you may have to adjust it to you slightly. I generally use the neck pickup for the low gain and clean sounds. 

The Impluse is from OwnHammer's free impluse pack "OH 412 MES-ST V60 57-00" So just match it up in your loader and you should be good to go.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hatlzu1su4sxj4k/Alpha Omega.hlx?dl=0

Let me know how it goes!


----------



## that short guy

Maybe I'm just dumb but I thought I read somewhere that the new cabs where already available for download? If this is true can someone tell me where lol


----------



## Lach Rae Dawn

that short guy said:


> Maybe I'm just dumb but I thought I read somewhere that the new cabs where already available for download? If this is true can someone tell me where lol



No not yet, but they did put out a free IR pack. Allure or something of the nature.

I am not sure where to get it, but they did have a link somewhere on the Line 6 Helix forum.


----------



## that short guy

Lach Rae Dawn said:


> No not yet, but they did put out a free IR pack. Allure or something of the nature.
> 
> I am not sure where to get it, but they did have a link somewhere on the Line 6 Helix forum.



thanks for the reply man. I found it, if anybody else is looking for them the link to the free download is here http://line6.com/allure/


----------



## mongey

been living under a rock and only read about the vst version today 

I'm def interested for my on the train commute mixing 

Is $399 usd for download a global price ? or will there be regional pricing ?


----------



## that short guy

You'd have to ask digital igloo man, he'd have the best answer


----------



## Digital Igloo

mongey said:


> Is $399 usd for download a global price? or will there be regional pricing ?


It's a direct download so I assume (don't quote me) that your price is determined by your currency's rate vs. USD.


----------



## that short guy

Hey digital igloo, any more news on the new firmware update? Still most likely going to drop in February or are we most likely looking at March?


----------



## Digital Igloo

that short guy said:


> Hey digital igloo, any more news on the new firmware update? Still most likely going to drop in February or are we most likely looking at March?


We're still on schedule but it's gonna be tight. Just in case we don't make it, we've added an all new multiband compressor model to placate the masses.


----------



## that short guy

Digital Igloo said:


> We're still on schedule but it's gonna be tight. Just in case we don't make it, we've added an all new multiband compressor model to placate the masses.


 
That's great news. You guys are doing great. Thanks man


----------



## that short guy

Hey has anyone else had an issue like I'm having now? 

The selector/toggle knob that you use to select or move amps and affects randomly started malfunctioning. It still turns and moves but when you press it down it won't select anything. 

I already reinstalled the latest firmware, did a global reset and still no luck.

If anyone else has had this issue what did you do to remedy it.


----------



## Blasphemer

I had a similar, but opposite issue. My joystick would still push down and in all 4 directions, but wouldn't scroll. Unfortunately, I had to send it in to L6 for repair. The good news the turnaround time was less than a week


----------



## that short guy

That's good and not got good to hear lol. 

How difficult was the process of sending it in?


----------



## Blasphemer

Very easy. Opened a support ticket on the L6 website and it was very step by step from there. If your Helix is out of the warranty date, though, you may have to pay for the repair. I can't really say for sure.


----------



## that short guy

It should still be in the warranty window. I submitted the ticket 2 days ago but haven't heard anything back yet. The website did say allow 3 business days so we'll see how it goes

Just incase I did find a authorized repair shop in my area so even if it's not covered by the warranty there's at least a guy in my area that should be able to fix it


----------



## tupesaku

Hey, quick question...sorry if this has been talked about already 

Anyway, I'm using my Helix rack with Matrix GT800FX power amp and I'm really liking it...I currently use it with only preamp models. Are some using the power amp modelling also? Does it make a huge difference?

I'm gonna try it my self next week but just wanted to ask if people have any experience with this, and which do people tend to prefer?

Thanks!


----------



## GunpointMetal

tupesaku said:


> Hey, quick question...sorry if this has been talked about already
> 
> Anyway, I'm using my Helix rack with Matrix GT800FX power amp and I'm really liking it...I currently use it with only preamp models. Are some using the power amp modelling also? Does it make a huge difference?
> 
> I'm gonna try it my self next week but just wanted to ask if people have any experience with this, and which do people tend to prefer?
> 
> Thanks!



When I was using it into a real cab, I would use the "full" models for clean/mid-gain/light crunch stuff, as it seemed to give it some extra dimension, but with my heavy tones I was using the PRE models because it felt tighter.


----------



## that short guy

Well I sent my helix off to L6 today, fingers crossed for a fast turn around time


----------



## Petef2007

Hi guys, I thought i'd ask this here instead of starting a new thread for it. 

Basically, i'm curious as to which would be the better investment, a Helix or a used Axe FX ultra. I'll be running it in 4CM with a laney IRT studio, and I have an interface to connect monitors/headphones for, so basically it'll be the centerpiece hardware of a working home studio.

I've heard that the modelling on the axe is better, but the helix plus impulses is basically a BMW to the Axe's Mercedes - amazing, just different. A used Axe Ultra would run me about £900 plus the midi board, a Helix rack setup would come in at about £1400 ish.

I'll be using impulses within the unit, as that was the only way I made the POD sound tolerable, and i've heard fantastic things about the helix + impulses.

For the most part, i'll be keeping things fairly simple - amp sim, impulse, couple of individual effects. I think the most complex patches will be stuff like Iron Maiden's Somewhere In Time tone, with multiple FX going off at once, or some of the more ambient stuff you hear on youtube where it's literally just reverby, washy delay things. 

There also exists the possibility of either unit just being FX only, as the IRT sounds pretty magnificent on its own. I figure it would just be nice to have the amp sims and not need them, rather than want to try them and not have any available. 


Basically what my question boils down to is, would I be able to nail tones ranging from 80s Maiden, Ozzy and early thrash to 90's Death and thrash, all the way up to modern death and core styles, and 8 string chuggyness with the Helix? And would it outperform an Axe FX Ultra, being a newer and more supported product? Or is there stuff in the Axe that the Helix still can't do?


----------



## lewis

Petef2007 said:


> Hi guys, I thought i'd ask this here instead of starting a new thread for it.
> 
> Basically, i'm curious as to which would be the better investment, a Helix or a used Axe FX ultra. I'll be running it in 4CM with a laney IRT studio, and I have an interface to connect monitors/headphones for, so basically it'll be the centerpiece hardware of a working home studio.
> 
> I've heard that the modelling on the axe is better, but the helix plus impulses is basically a BMW to the Axe's Mercedes - amazing, just different. A used Axe Ultra would run me about £900 plus the midi board, a Helix rack setup would come in at about £1400 ish.
> 
> I'll be using impulses within the unit, as that was the only way I made the POD sound tolerable, and i've heard fantastic things about the helix + impulses.
> 
> For the most part, i'll be keeping things fairly simple - amp sim, impulse, couple of individual effects. I think the most complex patches will be stuff like Iron Maiden's Somewhere In Time tone, with multiple FX going off at once, or some of the more ambient stuff you hear on youtube where it's literally just reverby, washy delay things.
> 
> There also exists the possibility of either unit just being FX only, as the IRT sounds pretty magnificent on its own. I figure it would just be nice to have the amp sims and not need them, rather than want to try them and not have any available.
> 
> 
> Basically what my question boils down to is, would I be able to nail tones ranging from 80s Maiden, Ozzy and early thrash to 90's Death and thrash, all the way up to modern death and core styles, and 8 string chuggyness with the Helix? And would it outperform an Axe FX Ultra, being a newer and more supported product? Or is there stuff in the Axe that the Helix still can't do?



If you were asking about an Axe II or the Helix I would say Axe.

but given the choices are Ultra or Helix, I would say Helix. Get the floor one etc. Job done.


----------



## SubConArtist

If Helix Native on the compuer can be controlled by the Helix rack floorboard, then, that's all you'll ever need. And all line 6 will ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have to do do do do do do do is upgrade the software software software software software software software software software. That will mave you soney, then bou'll ye fappy. KTHXBYE


----------



## Mr_Marty

Petef2007 said:


> Hi guys, I thought i'd ask this here instead of starting a new thread for it.
> 
> Basically, i'm curious as to which would be the better investment, a Helix or a used Axe FX ultra. I'll be running it in 4CM with a laney IRT studio, and I have an interface to connect monitors/headphones for, so basically it'll be the centerpiece hardware of a working home studio.
> 
> I've heard that the modelling on the axe is better, but the helix plus impulses is basically a BMW to the Axe's Mercedes - amazing, just different. A used Axe Ultra would run me about £900 plus the midi board, a Helix rack setup would come in at about £1400 ish.
> 
> I'll be using impulses within the unit, as that was the only way I made the POD sound tolerable, and i've heard fantastic things about the helix + impulses.
> 
> For the most part, i'll be keeping things fairly simple - amp sim, impulse, couple of individual effects. I think the most complex patches will be stuff like Iron Maiden's Somewhere In Time tone, with multiple FX going off at once, or some of the more ambient stuff you hear on youtube where it's literally just reverby, washy delay things.
> 
> There also exists the possibility of either unit just being FX only, as the IRT sounds pretty magnificent on its own. I figure it would just be nice to have the amp sims and not need them, rather than want to try them and not have any available.
> 
> 
> Basically what my question boils down to is, would I be able to nail tones ranging from 80s Maiden, Ozzy and early thrash to 90's Death and thrash, all the way up to modern death and core styles, and 8 string chuggyness with the Helix? And would it outperform an Axe FX Ultra, being a newer and more supported product? Or is there stuff in the Axe that the Helix still can't do?



If you just need effects the FX-8 is a better solution for what you want to do.


----------



## that short guy

The new firmware is up. I only had time to download it before I went back to work so I couldn't mess with it but at least it's out


----------



## metal_sam14

Firmware 2.20 is amazing, they absolutely nailed the Darkglass B7K model. I did a quick video with it:


----------



## UltimaWeapon

Holy carp... a lighter version HELIX
http://line6.com/helix/helix-lt.html


----------



## Mathemagician

If it's the same physical quality and just a smaller unit, damn. Nice!


----------



## Elric

Mathemagician said:


> If it's the same physical quality and just a smaller unit, damn. Nice!


Apparently it is similar size and weight but has less I/O and the scribble strips were removed to bring it into the sub $1k price target. Tonally it is the same though. Pretty nice product.


----------



## Thrashman

I want one.


----------



## that short guy

I saw this earlier today and thought it was a great idea.


----------



## Rachmaninoff

Yep, I've just seen this:


----------



## mnemonic

Latepass, but I just noticed an update earlier in the year added the 'L6 Badonk' model which is apparently based on the L6 Big Bottom from back in the day.

This was my favourite model back in college when I used an XT, lots of cool stuff has been recorded with it. For those who have tried both, is it just the Big Bottom ported to the Helix (like they did with the HD500) or is it a new model? 

The Big Bottom was a cool amp but it wasn't without its faults (severe lack of midrange and ludicrous compression), would be cool to get Big Bottom tones but with a bit more realism.


----------



## UltimaWeapon

Its nice they didnt cut most the usefull stuff from the regular Helix. Like the real amp switching, led rings, and the processing power. It says 999usd so just hope it wont be 1099 in EU because that would be only 30e difference between the Rack unit and like 250-300 from the regular floor Helix. :/


----------



## that short guy

So I finally got a chance to play around with some of the new stuff and while I found the badonk to be very limiting the Darkglass B7K on the other hand was amazing


----------



## JSanta

I have a Helix LT on the way this week, my local GC didn't have any in stock, and given the small market where I live now, I'm not surprised. 

I've downloaded the SW and I have been reading about how to use it. I've never had a processor like this, so I'm looking forward to really learning how to use it.


----------



## tuttermuts

So quick question since I don't have a lot of time to really research this lately (just moved n all the madness that comes with it). I've read here n there that the helix has improved a lot since the last update(s?) even so much so that it is in the ballpark of the other big units if you know how to tweak it.

Can anybody confirm that? Currently using an hd500X and I'm kinda happy with it, but in the realism department I do feel like stepping up some in the near future.


----------



## mikah912

tuttermuts said:


> So quick question since I don't have a lot of time to really research this lately (just moved n all the madness that comes with it). I've read here n there that the helix has improved a lot since the last update(s?) even so much so that it is in the ballpark of the other big units if you know how to tweak it.
> 
> Can anybody confirm that? Currently using an hd500X and I'm kinda happy with it, but in the realism department I do feel like stepping up some in the near future.



It's BEEN "in the ballpark" of Kemper and Axe-FX. I've had two AX8s. I sent them both packing to return to Helix.

Here's a recent YouTube clip showing as much by a guy I really dig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAa-hcgiZsk

Here are a couple of my latest personal clips:

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/uberchunk-mix-1

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/jtv1-1


----------



## SnoozyWyrm

A recent problem I have recently discovered with my setting up of the Helix: 

My lead-tone snapshots cause a high pitched squeel the moment I activate them. Most of the times the change is just a +3-6 db output on the output block, a delay/reverb block and maybe some more mids on the Amp block. The squeel happens the moment I press the footswitch, and it is noticable if I am not playing. The moment I start playing it is tamed enough to not be distinguishable from my usual string molestation.

Now, If I roll back my volume (on my guitar) the moment of the snapshot change it doesn't happen, but its not always easy/convinient to do. It also happens with a variety of guitars/pickups (BKP VHII, Lace Drop'n'Gain, SD Screamin' Demon)

Anyone else having the same problem? How do you counter it? I've thought about using an extra noise gate, however I'd rather I didn't have to.


----------



## tuttermuts

mikah912 said:


> It's BEEN "in the ballpark" of Kemper and Axe-FX. I've had two AX8s. I sent them both packing to return to Helix.
> 
> Here's a recent YouTube clip showing as much by a guy I really dig:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAa-hcgiZsk
> 
> Here are a couple of my latest personal clips:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/uberchunk-mix-1
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/jtv1-1



Thanks for the references! Maybe "in the ballpark" does sound a bit condescending, like I said, don't have too much time to really dive into research so I just go by what I read and can hear on the fly.

To be honest I like your last clip best, I looked around some on that other guys channel and while he does get a nice tone, he does put too much on there for my taste in terms on reverb/delay/gain/...

There's also quite a few clips that seem to have a bit of that top end fizzyness still going on, which I guess you can dial right out? (seems to have plenty going on in terms of EQ's). 

I'm a bit on the fence, but maybe I can sell off some old gear for the right price and presto.


----------



## mikah912

tuttermuts said:


> To be honest I like your last clip best, I looked around some on that other guys channel and while he does get a nice tone, he does put too much on there for my taste in terms on reverb/delay/gain/.



I made this last night specifically to show off a slightly more modern "prog metal" context:

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/getting-proggy-wit-it-mix

All stock cabs. No third party IRs.


----------



## tuttermuts

mikah912 said:


> I made this last night specifically to show off a slightly more modern "prog metal" context:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/getting-proggy-wit-it-mix
> 
> All stock cabs. No third party IRs.



That's not bad, thanks for all the input man.


----------



## BigBossAF

For anyone who's seen both the Helix and the LT version, which one would you recommend? Are you missing much by going with the LT?


----------



## polish_sausage

BigBossAF said:


> For anyone who's seen both the Helix and the LT version, which one would you recommend? Are you missing much by going with the LT?



The LT has everything I need. your just not getting as many routing options and no scribble strips with the LT. Unless that stuff is important to you I woulds say get the LT.


----------



## A-Branger

BigBossAF said:


> For anyone who's seen both the Helix and the LT version, which one would you recommend? Are you missing much by going with the LT?



this is the only real difference between the two, and the scribble strips, but you can have those on the display screen so who cares. Everything else is the same







VS


----------



## Digital Igloo

BigBossAF said:


> For anyone who's seen both the Helix and the LT version, which one would you recommend? Are you missing much by going with the LT?


From the FAQ...

Compared to Helix, the differences with Helix LT are:

• No scribble strip LCDs (middle eight footswitch assignments appear on Helix LT’s new colorful Performance view)
• Fewer Ins and Outs:
• 2 Sends/Returns as opposed to 4 (can be stereo linked)
• No mic preamp
• No Aux In
• No S/PDIF In/Out
• Exp 2 In and dual Ext Amp Out share a single jack (function is globally selectable)
• No Exp 3 jack
• No CV Out jack​• Less expensive chassis:
• Folded steel top chassis as opposed to extruded aluminum
• Folded steel expression pedal as opposed to cast aluminum
• Impact-resistant ABS side panels with rubber overmolding (like those on Helix Control) as opposed to cast aluminum side panels​• No separate Phones knob (headphone volume is controlled by main Volume knob)
• No 10 Stomp footswitch mode; Stomp mode is limited to 8 switches
• Pedal Edit select view displays 8 blocks at a time instead of 10
• Registered Helix LT owners can purchase the Helix Native plug-in for $299 (normally $399; registered Helix and Helix Rack owners get it for $99)


----------



## fremen

Recorded with the Archetype Lead, which has become my favorite model in the Helix :



I'm using that preset at the end of that video too, this time using the 4 OSC as a synth pad, each chord is triggered by a different snapshot :


----------



## PBGas

I finally hooked up my new Helix rack and control via 4cm on my new Jp-2C LE head and all I have to say is that it is unbelievable. I never thought I would have this much control and fun. Instant amp switching via midi, fantastic sounds and super easy and intuitive setup. There is so much great stuff in the box! Was going to use an external wah but the ones in the box are actually really good so I'm going to pick up the mission pedal and go from there.

I haven't had this much fun playing in a long time! The test will be during both my indoor and outdoor gigs I have lined up through the summer.

Can't wait!


----------



## Mathemagician

Got a helix rack coming. This thread is just getting me more hyped.


----------



## Element0s

Was up to no good in the studio with the band a while back. Ran my Helix patches through my Madison + Marshall 4x12s in the studio itself and then did a few more layers for preproduction at home using my direct tone. No idea what IR(s) I used, probably something by 3Sigma Audio. Very happy with the tone (but what else is new?) and stoked to get back in to do the various overdubs and tweaks to tighten things up. Helix is running strong! 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bwqifkoj1dvx873/east.mp3?dl=0


----------



## DropTheSun

Helix High Gain Shootout
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/sets/lrs-4x12-ir

Helix Metal
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-engl-metal

https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-prs-archon-metal

Sold my AX8 and bought the Helix LT.  Helix tones are quite amazing!


----------



## Ericjutsu

DropTheSun said:


> Helix High Gain Shootout
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/sets/lrs-4x12-ir
> 
> Helix Metal
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-engl-metal
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-prs-archon-metal
> 
> Sold my AX8 and bought the Helix LT.  Helix tones are quite amazing!



I like your tones and look forward to buying the LRS IRs. Are the tones you linked to all LRS IRs? The high gain shootout tones were great. When are the LRS IRs coming out? I can't seem to find any info on them other than from you. Also, how does the Helix compare to the AX8?


----------



## DropTheSun

Ericjutsu said:


> I like your tones and look forward to buying the LRS IRs. Are the tones you linked to all LRS IRs? The high gain shootout tones were great. When are the LRS IRs coming out? I can't seem to find any info on them other than from you. Also, how does the Helix compare to the AX8?



Thanks man! Great to hear, that you like my tones! High Gain shootout clips are using LRS Mesa 4x12 Traditional MV30 IR's, that are still under developement. They will be released in the near future. LRS just released the Mesa 2x12 Celestion A-type IR's, that are very nice as well:
http://livereadysound.com/product/a-typ-2x12-impulse-response-pack/

These clips are using those new Mesa 2x12 A-type IR's:
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/sets/live-ready-sound


----------



## Ericjutsu

DropTheSun said:


> Helix High Gain Shootout
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/sets/lrs-4x12-ir
> 
> Helix Metal
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-engl-metal
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-prs-archon-metal
> 
> Sold my AX8 and bought the Helix LT.  Helix tones are quite amazing!





DropTheSun said:


> Thanks man! Great to hear, that you like my tones! High Gain shootout clips are using LRS Mesa 4x12 Traditional MV30 IR's, that are still under developement. They will be released in the near future. LRS just released the Mesa 2x12 Celestion A-type IR's, that are very nice as well:
> http://livereadysound.com/product/a-typ-2x12-impulse-response-pack/
> 
> These clips are using those new Mesa 2x12 A-type IR's:
> https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/sets/live-ready-sound


Thanks. Do you know what poweramp was used in the LRS IRs? Was it a a neutral sounding one or the power section of something like a 5150?


----------



## PBGas

I haven't had to use any external IRs on my Helix Rack. I simply played around with the settings on the stock cabs and really got things working nicely by changing mics and working more with the hi and low settings. Love what I get out of it!


----------



## mikah912

Made a Helix high gain amp shootout (in a mix):

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/sets/helix-zilla-cab-v30creamback-mixtest-prog-rockmetal

All amps are going through the JST Zilla Fatboy 2x12 with a Creamback H and a V30 (57 off axis on the V30, 421 on the Creamback)


----------



## DropTheSun

Ericjutsu said:


> Thanks. Do you know what poweramp was used in the LRS IRs? Was it a a neutral sounding one or the power section of something like a 5150?



I don't unfortunately have that info.


----------



## DropTheSun

Ericjutsu said:


> when will the LRS IRs coming out? I can't seem to find any info on them other than from you.



They are actually out already :
http://livereadysound.com/product/mv30-traditional-speaker-ir-set/


----------



## cyb

Picked up a Helix LT a few weeks ago after taking a long break from guitar playing. I've owned Pod HD, Axe Fx (not the II), VST sims and Kemper, and I am very impressed with the Helix LT so far. I don't really miss the Kemper, but I still think it has the best raw amp tones I've personally heard from a digital unit but it's not a night and day difference either! 
The helix is so easy to use, and I prefer building my own patches instead of relying on other people's amp profiles. I wish I could compare it directly to the Axe II but I can't afford to have both.


----------



## mikah912

Here's some RAW solo'd high gain demos of three Helix amp models:

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/helixzilla-raw-slo-fireball-markiv


----------



## that short guy

Sascha Franck said:


> Amen to that, but they should really focus on amps made by other companies, YMMV.



See I would agree but some of the L6 originals are great. I really like the epic


----------



## Mathemagician

Ok, so I'm mad nooby. But what do I need to do to send the signal to my Scarlett 2i4? 

I don't have an amp/cab to google 4 cable method. Is it just one line out from the helix? (God this has to be a simple question) just trying to avoid buying cables I don't need and all the videos I'm finding are just tone/etc.


----------



## getowned7474

Mathemagician said:


> Ok, so I'm mad nooby. But what do I need to do to send the signal to my Scarlett 2i4?
> 
> I don't have an amp/cab to google 4 cable method. Is it just one line out from the helix? (God this has to be a simple question) just trying to avoid buying cables I don't need and all the videos I'm finding are just tone/etc.



All you have to do is go out of the unbalanced line out with a 1/4" cable or go out of the balanced line out with an XLR cable. You should only need 1 cable either way unless you want to do stereo. On the Helix it's simply marked "1/4 out" for the unbalanced signal and "XLR out" for the mic cable.


----------



## Mathemagician

Thank you. The exact simple answer I was looking for. Any difference in audio quality using XLR over unbalanced?


----------



## getowned7474

XLR theoretically should have less interference. XLR cables actually create a phase inverted copy of the original signal. Both the inverted and normal phase signals are sent through the XLR cable. Both signals get the same phase noise interference throughout the cable run. At the receiving end of the XLR cable the phase is inverted again and when combined the interference noise the signals received will be out of phase and cancel out for a clean signal.

Unless you are in a room full of fluorescent lights and computers or something you should be fine with a 1/4" cable though... It's probably not a bad practice to use the XLR cable when recording to get the best signal you can.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Here is a demo of a prog(ish) song I'm working. Inspired by Devin Townsend. Guitars and bass are all helix. I'm going to re record the guitars though because they are sloppy and I need newer strings.

https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/space-prog-helix-test-2


----------



## Ericjutsu

Ericjutsu said:


> Here is a demo of a prog(ish) song I'm working. Inspired by Devin Townsend. Guitars and bass are all helix. I'm going to re record the guitars though because they are sloppy and I need newer strings.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/space-prog-helix-test-2



Here is another one with a slightly different guitar tone
https://soundcloud.com/ericjutsu/space-prog-helix-test-3


----------



## DropTheSun

Ericjutsu said:


> I like your tones and look forward to buying the LRS IRs. Are the tones you linked to all LRS IRs? The high gain shootout tones were great. When are the LRS IRs coming out? I can't seem to find any info on them other than from you. Also, how does the Helix compare to the AX8?



https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-lrs-modern-rig-preset-pack-demo

I got something cool together using Helix Snapshots and one of the best IRs I got to test from Live Ready Sound. This clip is a demo of the Preset. All tones inside a one preset. Flexiple!


----------



## mikah912

Threw together some a very AiC/Cantrell-sounding tone and song snippet. This is all default Helix sounds. No third party IRs. Free preset up at Customtone too, if you want it:

https://soundcloud.com/guitdemoson/canter-mix


----------



## fremen

Here's a few videos of my Tribute to Pink Floyd band. The rhythm guitar/singer uses my Variax & Helix. I just added those presets as a bonus in my "Big pack", and my Variax bundle too


----------



## Petef2007

Hi guys, joining the family as a new Helix board owner. 

Anyone got any advice in dialing in a basic 5150 mid 2000s as i lay dying esque metalcore patch? I've got some 3 sigma audio impulses for Orange V30 cabs to go with it.


----------



## Chris O

Just started diving into my Helix LT a couple days ago. Sold off my AX8 and my AmpliFire 3. Love what I'm hearing already!


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Chris O said:


> Just started diving into my Helix LT a couple days ago. Sold off my AX8 and my AmpliFire 3. Love what I'm hearing already!


 wow, that's surprising that you'd sell your AX8, is it because the Helix is much easier to achieve tones with or?


----------



## DropTheSun

I sold my AX8 as well and got Helix LT. For me the interface, tones, easy tweaking and more power to run reverbs and delays was the main reasons. Oh, and Helix LT is much cheaper as well.

Some tones i've got together:
Fender Tweed
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-fender-tweed-and-lrs-alnico-blue-2

Fender Deluxe and Tweed
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-fender-deluxe-touch-sensitive-reverbs

Dual Recto
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-mesa-dual-rectifier

PRS Archon
https://soundcloud.com/mediumplayer/helix-prs-archon-metal


----------



## Mathemagician

What's the easiest way for me to update the helix, just plug the USB directly into my computer? Any drivers I need to install first?

Also, I guess I'm done buying amp gear. I finally set everything up with my rack helix at home and good god it sounds so good. Even with the stock cabs. I'll have to figure out how to load IR's, but I'm REALLY not sweating it at the moment.

It's perfect for someone like me. I wanted great high gain tones and some great clean channels. Done. All the extra effects/sounds are like having a toy chest I can go into whenever I'm bored. It's great.

Super intuitive too, just like everyone says it is.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Mathemagician said:


> What's the easiest way for me to update the helix, just plug the USB directly into my computer? Any drivers I need to install first?


Go to Line6's support page and download the Helix SW-package which also contains the drivers needed.


----------



## Meeotch

Hey guys, I'd love to know what FRFR setups you are using with the Helix for live performances? At the moment I'm torn between staying in brand with the L3t or going for an Atomic CLR. Certainly there are many options out there, so I'd appreciate your preferences!


----------



## btbamthewell

Hey guys,

I have the POD HD500 and love it but sometimes run into processing limits and find it very tough to dial in good sounding tones (I know full well this is my own issue, as I've heard demos with awesome tones). 

Before I sell the HD 500 for Helix I would like to know if anyone has tips/guidance on how the Helix is for post-rock (sweet cleans, lush reverbs and delays upon delays)? 
Also if it is an easier unit to manage for dialing in good sounding tones.


----------



## Mathemagician

I had a PodHD bean (the last model before they were discontinued). I used it once for a few hours and just really didn't enjoy it - it sounded like a suped up version of my old Line 6 Spider amp. 

The Helix is several levels in tonal quality/fidelity above the HD series. And it's very easy to dial stuff in. If you want to see how the pieces work just pick a preset and start messing with settings then just don't save it. Just my $0.02 I wasn't a Pod power user by any means. It sounded too "hissy" and the UI was awful.


----------



## that short guy

Anyone have a high gain lead patch they don't mind sharing? Or at the least an Idea of what to do? I've had hell trying to dial in one that can cut through the mix of rhythms I use (5150 and Mark IV) and right now I'm using the SLO model for the lead but it's not cutting like I want.

Here's a demo I worked up so you can get an Idea

https://soundcloud.com/i_get_bored/trying-somehting-out


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Try the Archon or the Line 6 2204 Mod, those are my go to, with the right tweaks they both are fantastic.


----------



## BubbleWrap

btbamthewell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have the POD HD500 and love it but sometimes run into processing limits and find it very tough to dial in good sounding tones (I know full well this is my own issue, as I've heard demos with awesome tones).
> 
> Before I sell the HD 500 for Helix I would like to know if anyone has tips/guidance on how the Helix is for post-rock (sweet cleans, lush reverbs and delays upon delays)?
> Also if it is an easier unit to manage for dialing in good sounding tones.



I had a pod hd500x and a few amps before upgrading to only the helix and also play a fair amount of post-rock. The helix handles it exceptionally well, tones from pristine cleans to heavily distorted are wonderful, and I rarely hit the DSP limit. I have a few presets running two separate paths: clean and distorted guitar or guitar and bass amps with the bass path detuned an octave, running out of completely separate powered speakers. Reverbs and delays are very nice and versatile. You may have to stack a few of them to achieve the desired sound if it’s really spacey. I can send you some presets if you get one. 




that short guy said:


> Anyone have a high gain lead patch they don't mind sharing? Or at the least an Idea of what to do? I've had hell trying to dial in one that can cut through the mix of rhythms I use (5150 and Mark IV) and right now I'm using the SLO model for the lead but it's not cutting like I want.
> 
> Here's a demo I worked up so you can get an Idea



Send me your email address in a pm and I’ll send you my favorite presets. 

From your sample, it sounds like you need to do some high & low cutting and EQ the rhythm and lead tones to separate them a bit more (pre or post) Your rhythm preset sounds a bit fat for being in a mix with a lead. I’m sure it’s awesome for just jamming, but it could use a bit of thinning for the intended purpose.


----------



## alekosh

Hello everyone. Just upgraded to helix from pod hd500. Tone quality much improved. Quick question though. My spdif levels are way down from the hd500. Am i doing something wrong or thats the way it supposed to be to avoid clipping etc?


----------



## that short guy

That's kinda weird but how much lower are you talking about. Like if you dime the volume on the amp is it still very quiet or just quieter than what your POD was


----------



## alekosh

that short guy said:


> That's kinda weird but how much lower are you talking about. Like if you dime the volume on the amp is it still very quiet or just quieter than what your POD was


Thanks for the reply. Much lower than my pod was. I set the volume knob of the helix all the way and full spdif level in daw and still cannot jam with computer music. I havent mess with patch amp levels


----------



## that short guy

I had to readjust the playback volume in my daw with this last firmware update to about 85% of what it's default was. I think there was something in the last update that tweaked the globals


----------



## Blasphemer

Firmware 2.5 is out, and they included a Mesa Lone Star and a Friedman BE-100, as well as some new verbs and pretty much every legacy L6 effect. 

After playing around a bit, I’m LOVING the Friedman model!


----------



## Avedas

Blasphemer said:


> Firmware 2.5 is out, and they included a Mesa Lone Star and a Friedman BE-100, as well as some new verbs and pretty much every legacy L6 effect.
> 
> After playing around a bit, I’m LOVING the Friedman model!


Oh damn I was just thinking the other day how much I'd love a Lonestar model, and of course the FBE has been long sought after.


----------



## Curt

Absolutely stoked on the Lonestar model. Just what I was missing.


----------



## Avedas

Ok I loaded up 2.50 as soon as I got home. This is seriously incredible. I took my Matchless patch and just dropped in the Lonestar and it sounds so damn good. I'll make a separate patch for it as the flavor is pretty different, though. But the real star here is the Friedman. I had a really solid lead patch based around the Uberschall. I dropped the Friedman in and put it at identical settings and it's a world higher. This is the most impressed I've been with Helix since I got it.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I cant find the update anywhwere feel like an idiot, I had no issues with any other updates...

disregard I have a good brain.


----------



## Mathemagician

I should really plug mine in and update it...


----------



## vent187

Was trying out some metal tones with my single-soil strat and the Helix Native. Pretty happy with how it's sounding through the Orange (OR 80 i think?) through a HESU 4x12 impulse.

https://soundcloud.com/sameersuri187/shoon

Really happy with the Native. If I ever start playing live again, getting a Helix is no brainer. : )


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

vent187 said:


> Was trying out some metal tones with my single-soil strat and the Helix Native. Pretty happy with how it's sounding through the Orange (OR 80 i think?) through a HESU 4x12 impulse.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/sameersuri187/shoon
> 
> Really happy with the Native. If I ever start playing live again, getting a Helix is no brainer. : )



Sounds great!
I too am very happy with Native.


----------



## that short guy

It's been awhile since I've contributed anything to to this thread and the other day I made 2 new patches one heavy rhythm and one ambient-ish tone. 

Here's a quick song/video I made to demo the tones, let me know what you think 



Also on a side note, anyone know of the easiest way to sync audio and video when using multiple video files? This was a royal pain. It took less time to write, track, program drums, and record the videos than to piece them together in sync with the audio


----------



## AirForbes1

I didn't see a dedicated Helix thread, so I'll just post the details here. I apologize if it should be somewhere else.

I wouldn't normally post info on updates, but I thought people here would be interested to see that they're adding the Gain 2 channel from the Revv Generator 120. 

I've taken these details from TGP's Helix thread. 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/27910854/

Firmware 2.8 (Spring 2019):

8 new amps, 7effects and new features

*--Tweed Deluxe 5c3 1958 (Normal, Bright, Jumped)*











The earlier 5C3 Deluxe model use negative feedback although it too is cathode biased.

Subsequent versions of the Deluxe is the "wide panel" cabinet design

Fender Deluxe (Wide-Panel) Amp Model 5C3
This is an all original 12 watt tweed "wide-panel" cabinet tube combo legend. One twelve-inch Jensen Alnico , two instrument inputs and one microphone input, one volume knob, one tone knob, tweed covering, dark brown mohair grill cloth.

The Tweed Deluxe originally came equipped with a Jensen P12R speaker. Due to limited power handling, owners sometimes replaced it with the more powerful Jensen P12Q.

*--Grammatico Amps LaGrange tube guitar amplifier 2016 (Normal, Bright, Jumped)*





The LaGrange is Austin-based Grammatico Amps' best selling model. And there are many reasons why you so rarely find them for sale. Based on a vintage Tweed Deluxe and designed to capture the tones of early ZZ Top, Neil Young, Keith Richards, Tom Petty, George Thorogood, Kenny Burrell, T-Bone Walker, and many other classic rock tones when plugged straight into the amp. It accepts either single coils or humbuckers equally well.

The tone is very woody, warm, round, and fat with throaty mids and sweet rounded highs with just enough zing to make it exciting and cutting. It's very organic, transparent, three dimensional with lots of bloom and harmonic richness. Jensen "Special Design" loudspeaker.

POWER OUTPUT:15 Watts POWER TUBES Tung-sol 6V6PRE-AMP TUBES Electro Harmonix 12AX7RECTIFIER TUBE:5Y3CONTROLS:Volume Normal, Volume Bright, ToneSPEAKERS:Jensen P12Q 12" Alnico

*--REVV Generator 120 (Gain 2 channel Only )* Clean, Crunch and Gain1 (not yet)





Revv’s Trademark Gain – Totally unique, tight & full, dozens of voicing options

4 Channels: Clean, Crunch and two switchable, variable Gain channels ( 10 or 120 watts)

Tube arrangement: 5 – 12AX7 , 1 – 12AT7, 4 – 6L6GC
Presence and depth control
Bright switch on clean/crunch and both overdrive channels, Fat switch on both overdrive channels
Contour switches to allow selection of a brighter distortion or a deeper/scooped type of distortion by shifting mid range frequencies for tons of tone variety.

*--Ampeg SVT-4PRO (1200 w )híbrido*




Preamplificador con 3x válvulas 12AX7
Etapa final MOSFET

9 band eq, bright, compresor, frequency
Deep Warm Tone



*Effects:*

-Shelf EQ
-TILT EQ!
- Hermida Zendrive
(extremely sweet overdrive. dynamical response to guitar controls)
- Analogramm King Of Tone
( In the realm of overdrives, the King wears purple. The Analogman King of Tone takes any rig into pure, overdriven tube territory) 500€
- SansAmp Bass drive d1v1
SansAmp Bass DI controlador es capaz de marcar a los grandes tonos de tubo y brillantes sonidos modernos slap, distorsiones etc...
-Scrambler bass overdrive (fuzz)

-Moogerfooger Filter MuRF
It is one of the most powerful octave and pitch generators available, capable of producing everything from traditional octave effects to noisy synth experimentation.

You can make a block not be affected by the Snapshot.

Native will emulate the signal flow/model choices of a specific hardware unit. Can set it up like a Stomp and build presets that drag straight in.

Native $99 for Stomp, HX Effects owners.

Keyboard commands to your computer from Helix


----------



## mnemonic

HX Stomp GAS intensifies


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So i don't have to buy a Revv Generator or a Revv G3/G4?


----------



## AirForbes1

The Revv Generator is a bit of a surprise to me. I thought it would be too niche for them. I'm really GASing for a KSR Ares and thought that they'd never put one in the Helix, but this Revv addition kind of changes things.

I'm still a little disappointed at their lack of Orange amps. Need a Rockerverb or Dual Dark.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

AirForbes1 said:


> The Revv Generator is a bit of a surprise to me. I thought it would be too niche for them. I'm really GASing for a KSR Ares and thought that they'd never put one in the Helix, but this Revv addition kind of changes things.
> 
> I'm still a little disappointed at their lack of Orange amps. Need a Rockerverb or Dual Dark.



Revv did a really fucking good job promoting themselves.


----------



## laxu

You forgot the best thing: The ability to set Helix Native to a mode where it does NOT emulate a Helix hardware. This means you can pile in as many fx blocks as your CPU can handle!


----------



## AirForbes1

laxu said:


> You forgot the best thing: The ability to set Helix Native to a mode where it does NOT emulate a Helix hardware. This means you can pile in as many fx blocks as your CPU can handle!



Right, sorry. I didn't actually read that part. I don't have Native, so I probably skipped it. I can see that being huge for Native owners though. Cheers.


----------



## laxu

AirForbes1 said:


> Right, sorry. I didn't actually read that part. I don't have Native, so I probably skipped it. I can see that being huge for Native owners though. Cheers.



It definitely is. It's been infuriating having to juggle fx blocks to different paths even though my CPU is pegged at 5% usage.


----------



## Ericjutsu

laxu said:


> It definitely is. It's been infuriating having to juggle fx blocks to different paths even though my CPU is pegged at 5% usage.


They need the IR loader in it the handle londer IRs and not just 1048. That is what I'm hoping for eventually.


----------



## Sogradde

Still no polyphonic pitch shifter. Reeeee!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Interesting choice with the SVT4. I'm not gonna complain, though. Apparently Ryan Martinie used one w/ a DBX 266 compressor on Mudvayne's LD50, and uh, yeah, that's like the godliest bass tone ever.


----------



## laxu

Ericjutsu said:


> They need the IR loader in it the handle londer IRs and not just 1048. That is what I'm hoping for eventually.



The IR loader does 2048 sample IRs so it's fine. You can select it in the IR block.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Interesting choice with the SVT4. I'm not gonna complain, though. Apparently Ryan Martinie used one w/ a DBX 266 compressor on Mudvayne's LD50, and uh, yeah, that's like the godliest bass tone ever.



The SVT4PRO is an industry standard backline amp. 

When you need something cheaper, cleaner, more flexible and still "that sound" you grab a 4PRO over an all tube SVT.


----------



## Ericjutsu

laxu said:


> The IR loader does 2048 sample IRs so it's fine. You can select it in the IR block.


Oops that's what I meant. Still higher would be better


----------



## laxu

Ericjutsu said:


> Oops that's what I meant. Still higher would be better



When I had an Axe-Fx 2 I spent some time comparing the normal (1024), high (2048) and UltraRes IRs and to be honest telling them apart was difficult. There is a difference, but it's slight. 2048 is totally fine.


----------



## Jeff

Don’t really care about most of it, but it’s a healthy update. The Stomp to Native compatibility will be awesome for me. Wish they would have spent some time on their shitty reverbs.


----------



## laxu

Jeff said:


> Wish they would have spent some time on their shitty reverbs.



The new reverbs sound good but they are pretty effected ones. I also wish they would update the more basic ones.


----------



## Jeff

laxu said:


> The new reverbs sound good but they are pretty effected ones. I also wish they would update the more basic ones.



I guess. They're so over the top I've never really tried to do much with them. They need to update plate, room, spring.....stuff people actually use that aren't in a shoe gazer band.


----------



## Curt

mnemonic said:


> HX Stomp GAS intensifies


Big same. Just waiting on that tax refund. Lmao


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Revv is definitely cool and surprising.

Kind of surprised we haven't seen a 5150 II (6505+) or an EVH 5150 III. Sure they have a Peavey 5150 but you gotta have all the 5150's--just cause. Heck, lets even get an Invective in there lol. 

I think more surprising is the lack of Orange amps (they have an OR80, but I'd like to see some more--like a Rockerverb or Thunderverb).

Some Randall amps would be neat.


----------



## AirForbes1

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Revv is definitely cool and surprising.
> 
> Kind of surprised we haven't seen a 5150 II (6505+) or an EVH 5150 III. Sure they have a Peavey 5150 but you gotta have all the 5150's--just cause. Heck, lets even get an Invective in there lol.
> 
> I think more surprising is the lack of Orange amps (they have an OR80, but I'd like to see some more--like a Rockerverb or Thunderverb).
> 
> Some Randall amps would be neat.



I'm also surprised that there isn't more Orange. Especially the Rockerverb. It's been modelled so many times, just not in the Helix for some reason.


----------



## laxu

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Revv is definitely cool and surprising.
> 
> Kind of surprised we haven't seen a 5150 II (6505+) or an EVH 5150 III. Sure they have a Peavey 5150 but you gotta have all the 5150's--just cause. Heck, lets even get an Invective in there lol.
> 
> I think more surprising is the lack of Orange amps (they have an OR80, but I'd like to see some more--like a Rockerverb or Thunderverb).
> 
> Some Randall amps would be neat.



I actually like that they don't try to add every damn variant of amps like Fractal does. I would rather see amps that have a unique sound to them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

laxu said:


> I actually like that they don't try to add every damn variant of amps like Fractal does. I would rather see amps that have a unique sound to them.



I agree, but if they had some unique amps that would be killer. Previously mentioned Randall (T2, RG100ES, Century), Marshall 8100, KSR, etc.


----------



## DredFul

mnemonic said:


> HX Stomp GAS intensifies


Screw it. I gave in. Revv, Zendrive and Sansamp were too much to handle. Also I had some bonus points for my online retailer of choice so I got a decent deal


----------



## mikah912

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I agree, but if they had some unique amps that would be killer. Previously mentioned Randall (T2, RG100ES, Century), Marshall 8100, KSR, etc.



That's actually what they've been doing - going the unique route when they can. No one had a PRS Archon when they put it in. Same for the Cartographer - which is a heavily modified Traynor that belongs to their lead designer. Now, a "Grammatico" boutique amp along with the Revv 120. These are smart, differentiating choices.

I asked for a KSR eons ago, too, but I'm sure they're looking for the perfect nexus of uniqueness, affordability, availability, and maximum appeal to users.


----------



## Mathemagician

Man I need to update my amp.


----------



## laxu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I agree, but if they had some unique amps that would be killer. Previously mentioned Randall (T2, RG100ES, Century), Marshall 8100, KSR, etc.



I'd love to see some Matamps because nobody seems to model those. Randall would be a great choice too.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mikah912 said:


> That's actually what they've been doing - going the unique route when they can. No one had a PRS Archon when they put it in. Same for the Cartographer - which is a heavily modified Traynor that belongs to their lead designer. Now, a "Grammatico" boutique amp along with the Revv 120. These are smart, differentiating choices.
> 
> I asked for a KSR eons ago, too, but I'm sure they're looking for the perfect nexus of uniqueness, affordability, availability, and maximum appeal to users.



YEah, they already have some cool offerings. I just really want some solid state ones too. 

Also Line 6 does like Fractal does and models the actual circuitry of the amp. Seems like they need the actual amps on hand to do it.


----------



## bnzboy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Interesting choice with the SVT4. I'm not gonna complain, though. Apparently Ryan Martinie used one w/ a DBX 266 compressor on Mudvayne's LD50, and uh, yeah, that's like the godliest bass tone ever.



yes the tone sounds so outworldly I love it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

When I had Amplitube, I remember the SVT4 being fucking awesome. It wasn't as gainy as the tube-modeled SVTs, but had this super tight and clear sound, and can get a little bit of grit of you cranked it.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

ChugThisBoy said:


> Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately





ChugThisBoy said:


> Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately



I wonder if they even know?


----------



## GunpointMetal

ChugThisBoy said:


> Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately


The closest thing to a "leak" I've seen was a few beta testers mentioning that they hadn't even seen it yet, and that was a few weeks ago. L6 is pretty tight with the NDAs, though, so who knows.


----------



## AirForbes1

ChugThisBoy said:


> Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately



No idea. TheGearPage Helix thread will be the first place to look for info. They'll probably have it before L6 announce it. Happened with the 2.8 model list.


----------



## theicon2125

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Revv is definitely cool and surprising.
> 
> Kind of surprised we haven't seen a 5150 II (6505+) or an EVH 5150 III. Sure they have a Peavey 5150 but you gotta have all the 5150's--just cause. Heck, lets even get an Invective in there lol.
> 
> I think more surprising is the lack of Orange amps (they have an OR80, but I'd like to see some more--like a Rockerverb or Thunderverb).
> 
> Some Randall amps would be neat.



I'm also really surprised they haven't done the 5150 III yet. Having all 3 channels of that would be incredible. That's definitely on my wishlist for a future update along with Rockerverb, Randall Warhead/X2, and polyphonic pitch shifting (like the Digitech Drop/Whammy DT).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'll throw my money to the first person that models hybrids amps like the Randall T2, V2, and the Marshall 8100.


----------



## spudmunkey

ChugThisBoy said:


> Sooo someone know when we can expect the update? Helix camp has been pretty quiet lately



Just whatever you do, stay the fuck away from the Facebook group. I'm a pretty low-key guy, but all of the goddamn "Is 2.8 out yet" threads, the posts bitching about 2.8 release threads, and the posts bitching about the bitching about 2.8 release posts has got my blood boiling at an irrational level. Like...just thinking about it, I'm furrowing my brow and grinding my teeth.


----------



## mnemonic

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'll throw my money to the first person that models hybrids amps like the Randall T2, V2, and the Marshall 8100.



Please. 

This would be pretty cool, and set the modeller apart, modelling some cult-classic amps rather than just the same old Marshall’s, Mesas and fenders over and over. 

I know many of these amps were asked for over and over on the axe FX wishlist forum, but were always ignored. Though at least with the axe FX, I imagine the underlying modelling engine is designed to model tubes, and modelling solidstate gear would probably add a lot of work. The only solidstate amp in the box is the JC120, and even that I think is probably just jury-rigged in there, since you can still select tube type, bias, etc in the advanced menus.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'll throw my money to the first person that models hybrids amps like the Randall T2, V2, and the Marshall 8100.



Have you seen if there are any KPA profiles for those?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> Have you seen if there are any KPA profiles for those?



There are. I've seen both. Plus Overloud has a Randall T2 emulation. 

But I mean like in an all-in-one unit like the Axe or Helix.


----------



## Smoked Porter

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There are. I've seen both. Plus Overloud has a Randall T2 emulation.
> 
> But I mean like in an all-in-one unit like the Axe or Helix.


If you ever do go the Kemper route, I can vouch for the Deadlight Studio V2 profiles. There are a few in that pack that are just fun as hell to play, lots of low end chunk but still very tight.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Smoked Porter said:


> If you ever do go the Kemper route, I can vouch for the Deadlight Studio V2 profiles. There are a few in that pack that are just fun as hell to play, lots of low end chunk but still very tight.



I never really planned on getting a Kemper. I like going all-out modelers for having everything in one box. If they ever make a Kemper with a VASTLY improved effects section, then I'd jump on board.


----------



## Smoked Porter

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I never really planned on getting a Kemper. I like going all-out modelers for having everything in one box. If they ever make a Kemper with a VASTLY improved effects section, then I'd jump on board.


TBH I think the Kemper's effects are a little underrated, even if they aren't Fractal-level. The delays in particular are really nice after last year's update. But I hear you, I'm on the waitlist for an FM3 and will probably stick with that unless Kemper puts out something to compete with it, or the used prices for them drop by a lot. Neither of which I see happening soon.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

spudmunkey said:


> Just whatever you do, stay the fuck away from the Facebook group. I'm a pretty low-key guy, but all of the goddamn "Is 2.8 out yet" threads, the posts bitching about 2.8 release threads, and the posts bitching about the bitching about 2.8 release posts has got my blood boiling at an irrational level. Like...just thinking about it, I'm furrowing my brow and grinding my teeth.



Yeah I feel you, I'm in that group too. I'm not that person to ask about spring release all the time, it was just this one time, here. I'm staying away from that group for now


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yes the FB group is bad. I've seen people that ask legit questions about the helix that get ignored, including mine.

But if you ask anything about 2.8, all the trolls and smartasses come out of the woodwork and you get a 141-comment shitpost thread.

Shit for the passed week I saw more comments about the FM3 than I did the Helix. 

Stick to the Line 6 Forums


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Well, when I asked here the last post was from january and I asked in april so I think it was justified since we were told that the update will come out in spring (propably). Ehh people are trying to be people and we get so much shit for that. Enjoy your week fellas


----------



## buriedoutback

oh momma... might have to sell my hd500 and get a stomp


----------



## nateispro

I cant wait to try that Revv! I love my hx stomp for late night playing. Having a VHT Pittbull now though makes me wish that add one or a Ultra Lead to the lineup! On the flip side, how many of you guys have messed with the Ultraglass model (Obsiden 9000?). Im using it as my boost right now for the VHT and it SLAYS! The extra tone scultping is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

So my computer is not currently set up yet do to moving and such so I haven't had a chance to update my unit.

Anyone get the update? How do you like it, I've heard good things about the Revv model but most of the videos I find are like blues dads amazed that it's not too heavy for them.

Also sorry if I'm out of line asking for a dedicated stickied thread for Helix just figured there do end up being lots of Helix related questions especially as the product family grows and that could keep all discussion in one thread similar to the Kemper/Fractal threads.

Cheers


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I haven't got a chance to try it, but I heard nothing but glowing things about the new overdrive models and the Revv.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I thought we had a big Helix thread somewhere. Oh well, let's make it this one.


----------



## Xaios

MaxOfMetal said:


> I thought we had a big Helix thread somewhere. Oh well, let's make it this one.


For posterity:
OG Helix thread: https://sevenstring.org/threads/new-line-6-product-helix.296288/
Another thread specifically about 2.8: https://sevenstring.org/threads/helix-2-8-spring-release.334091/


----------



## spudmunkey

I haven't had a chance to play with it, but I did update it. First, the update failed, even after following the directions step-by-step, after reading all sorts of comments in the facebook group about the importance of doing so.

Then I tried it again after removing all Line6 software from my computer, reinstalling, based on some experiences from other that I read, and trying again. It still didn't work.

Lastly, I did get it to work, but it took a fresh install of windows...the whole time, gritting my teeth at the hundreds of comments on the "official" Line6 group from people saying things like, "Well mine worked fine, so clearly anyone with issues are stupid idiots that should learn how to follow directions."


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Xaios said:


> For posterity:
> OG Helix thread: https://sevenstring.org/threads/new-line-6-product-helix.296288/
> Another thread specifically about 2.8: https://sevenstring.org/threads/helix-2-8-spring-release.334091/



Works for me.


----------



## Mathemagician

Price check on selling a used Helix Rack. Near new condition, non smoking, no gigs, no rack mounting scratches. Also, wiped to factory settings the default way to sell digital gear?


----------



## spudmunkey

After the wipe, I would update it to the latest software available.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Finally got a chance to try the Revv. Its legit. It reminds me of the Uberschall model, but tighter and easier to use.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Xaios said:


> For posterity:
> OG Helix thread: https://sevenstring.org/threads/new-line-6-product-helix.296288/
> Another thread specifically about 2.8: https://sevenstring.org/threads/helix-2-8-spring-release.334091/



Shit i searched back a while couldnt find either within a few months well done thanks haha


----------



## Xaios

Dineley said:


> Shit i searched back a while couldnt find either within a few months well done thanks haha


Looks like the threads have been merged at this point into this very thread. As I recall, the contents of the original Helix thread run from the first post of this thread until around May 2018. Then the posts from the other 2.8 thread run from about January to May of 2019. Hope that helps put things into context.


----------



## Element0s

Did the firmware update a few days ago and swapped out the Archon amp head for the Revv right as we were soundchecking at rehearsal last night. Loved it. Super tight and rich. I found myself having to dial back the aggression and presence because it was getting too nasty for classic metal but it was an instant and welcome change to a tone that I'd been growing a weary of over the past year.


----------



## brandon7s

GuitarSetup said:


> Any Latency for the interface?



Latency when using the Helix as an ASIO interface isn't quite as good as my Focusrite 18i8 but it's pretty close; unless you're trying to get sub-4ms roundtrip times then I think you'd be happy with that aspect.


----------



## Backsnack

brandon7s said:


> Latency when using the Helix as an ASIO interface isn't quite as good as my Focusrite 18i8 but it's pretty close; unless you're trying to get sub-4ms roundtrip times then I think you'd be happy with that aspect.


If you can reliably stay under 7 ms it’s usually pretty workable IME.


----------



## Backsnack

A little late to the party with this realization, but here goes anyways.

As I’m looking at options for a future setup, the Helix becomes appealing from just a value perspective. Not only do the amp models sound great, the board is worth it even just as an all-in-one effects solution with the benefit of being a MIDI controller. Last night I did some math and priced out everything needed for a modest pedalboard (delay, reverb, modulation, couple OD pedals, cables, board, Morningstar MIDI controller) and the Helix is still cheaper by a significant margin.

Additionally, the ability to move effects around anywhere in the chain with 4CM would require the pedalboard real estate and cost of something like a Boss ES-5 or ES-8 on a conventional setup.

So even if you just use a full bore Helix for effects with a conventional amp, it seems you’d be ahead of the game.


----------



## brandon7s

Backsnack said:


> A little late to the party with this realization, but here goes anyways.
> 
> As I’m looking at options for a future setup, the Helix becomes appealing from just a value perspective. Not only do the amp models sound great, the board is worth it even just as an all-in-one effects solution with the benefit of being a MIDI controller. Last night I did some math and priced out everything needed for a modest pedalboard (delay, reverb, modulation, couple OD pedals, cables, board, Morningstar MIDI controller) and the Helix is still cheaper by a significant margin.
> 
> Additionally, the ability to move effects around anywhere in the chain with 4CM would require the pedalboard real estate and cost of something like a Boss ES-5 or ES-8 on a conventional setup.
> 
> So even if you just use a full bore Helix for effects with a conventional amp, it seems you’d be ahead of the game.



I ended up selling my Helix LT and getting an HX Stomp instead because I didnt really need elaborate patches and I love the stomp form factor, and I have no need for MIDI controls. Unfortunatel I did that before 2.8 came out which introduced assigning switches to hotkeys and macros, which I definitely would use! Having footswitches set to stop/record/play/new clip/etc in my DAW would be a pretty cool feature and would let me use my DAW as a more traditional looper pedal in a way.

I wonder if the stomp supports that feature... I don't think I does but I'll double check just in case I'm missing out. Just one more value add for the LT and floorboard though


----------



## Backsnack

brandon7s said:


> I ended up selling my Helix LT and getting an HX Stomp instead because I didnt really need elaborate patches and I love the stomp form factor, and I have no need for MIDI controls. Unfortunatel I did that before 2.8 came out which introduced assigning switches to hotkeys and macros, which I definitely would use! Having footswitches set to stop/record/play/new clip/etc in my DAW would be a pretty cool feature and would let me use my DAW as a more traditional looper pedal in a way.
> 
> I wonder if the stomp supports that feature... I don't think I does but I'll double check just in case I'm missing out. Just one more value add for the LT and floorboard though


I’m not sure about that. But that is a really handy feature!

My uses for the Helix would be more complex. I also play a Chapman Stick, which requires a split/stereo signal path for each side of the instrument. Then my thought is utilize a MIDI controlled A/B switcher for one of the jacks so I can also use it in 4CM with a regular guitar amp and cab. The A/B box would keep loops 2-4 free to add some additional pedals.


----------



## sleewell

i'm over a year in and still REALLY love my helix LT. i use it in 4cm with my 5153 half stack. 

totally solved the vol jump between green and blue channels. i use the prs archon amp sim for cleans and the blue channel for my main dirt sound.


----------



## scrub

Guys, super Helix nube here. I'm running 4 cable method into a mark V. I have the effects loop block in the signal chain. When I put a delay after the effects loop block, it sounds like crap. What am I missing?


----------



## sleewell

scrub said:


> Guys, super Helix nube here. I'm running 4 cable method into a mark V. I have the effects loop block in the signal chain. When I put a delay after the effects loop block, it sounds like crap. What am I missing?




does the footswitch for the amp have fx loop bypass function? happens to me all the time where i forget to turn on the fx loop.


----------



## sleewell

holy cow that new revv amp from the last update is *AMAZING!!!!*

bump the aggression to 2 and that is some fantastic modern metal tones.


----------



## scrub

sleewell said:


> does the footswitch for the amp have fx loop bypass function? happens to me all the time where i forget to turn on the fx loop.



to my knowledge there is no effects loop bypass. and to clarify...it's a mark v 25. sorry about that.


----------



## GunpointMetal

sleewell said:


> holy cow that new revv amp from the last update is *AMAZING!!!!*
> 
> bump the aggression to 2 and that is some fantastic modern metal tones.


That's probably gonna be my new favorite thing ever. With my stoopid-low tuned guitars all I need is that aggression switch and a little EQ in front to clean up some mud going in and I can get rid of a boost and a compressor I was using on most of my other dirt presets.
EDIT: I also grabbed that ML Halloween pack and those IR mixes are awesome.


----------



## Rev2010

sleewell said:


> bump the aggression to 2 and that is some fantastic modern metal tones.



I just tried it out the night before last, definitely a great model. However, opposite of most I found that I preferred the aggression setting all the way down. That and I also dialed the Bias and BiasX down all the way and man it really opened up. Nice and clear but super heavy. With the aggression set to 2 palm mutes ring out with a lot of crunchy noise.


Rev.


----------



## sleewell

Rev2010 said:


> I just tried it out the night before last, definitely a great model. However, opposite of most I found that I preferred the aggression setting all the way down. That and I also dialed the Bias and BiasX down all the way and man it really opened up. Nice and clear but super heavy. With the aggression set to 2 palm mutes ring out with a lot of crunchy noise.
> 
> 
> Rev.



right on, i'll have to try that.


----------



## scrub

Has anyone experienced volume problems when running 4cm? I'm running it through my mark V 25, and sometimes the volume will sound just like i'm running straight into the front of my amp, but then it occasionally dips to a much lower volume....almost like I'm losing signal. I've tested all my cable straight into the amp and they all worked fine.


----------



## sakeido

yo dudes, I am gettin back into modelers for live shows because I don't want to haul gear

I rent the full Helix Floor and am messing around with it. It sounds pretty good, but very modeler-esque to me right now. 2.80 firmware. I only have a few days to dial it in before a gig so I need help 

Would loading IRs in be the way to go, instead of using the built-in cab models? 

What are your favorite amps? 

I found I had to add EQ blocks and put big mid notches in no matter what amp I was using to kill the cardboard sound. Is using the global EQ the better way to do this?


----------



## sleewell

are you going direct to pa or into an amp?

try the revv amp with the settings mentioned above. for cleans i like the prs archon w the bright switch on. 

i dont have much experience going direct, sorry i cant help more. i just use mine in 4cm with a 5153.


----------



## sakeido

direct to PA, so I figure that's why I needed the big EQ cuts. amps will typically care of that on their own

I didn't know there was a Revv or Archon in there. badass. the Helix is such an outrageously sexy unit I kinda hope I can fall in love with it, but I'm not sold on the modeling vs. Axe yet.


----------



## Rev2010

sakeido said:


> Would loading IRs in be the way to go, instead of using the built-in cab models?
> 
> What are your favorite amps?



Yes, using an IR will be an improvement. I like using the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters 1 collection. Go through the A1 picks. As far as amps, I don't find any cardboard sound. I'm a Recto guy and the Recto model alone doesn't do it for me so I use a combination of Recto and the Line 6 Epic going into the same single IR. I've found the Revv Generator model and Engl Fireball (Meteor) to also be excellent high gain amps and the 5150 (Panama) model is good too. Don't be shy to try a blend of two amps into in IR/cab. I use a an EQ block after the IR but it's for small tweaks. Sounds great to me but yeah... my current Recto/Epic patch did take some time to really dial in and get it awesome. I found messing with the Revv Generator model to produce quicker great sounding results. Personally, I found that dialing down the agression, BIAS, and BIAS X all the way down to zero really opened up the sound and actually greatly improved it (in my personal opinion of course).


Rev.


----------



## mikah912

You're going into it with the wrong mindset if you think you absolutely have to do EQ blocks or other trickery to make it sound good. Stick with the Revv, Archon, Placater Dirty/Friedman BE100 and Badonk amp models. Use an IR you like. Keep the gain moderate and use the gate on the input block instead of a dedicated noise gate block. 

Oh, and add a moderate Room reverb at the end. Done.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Like the guys said, Revv is pretty great but I really like Badonk too. And about going directly to PA - look out for the high frequencies as they can get really messy if the sound guy uses any eq or comp on the console. EQ block or messing with global eq settings will help to sort this out.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Grab a decent IR, low pass on the IR block at ~8K for DI unless the IR is really bright. The built-in cabs do work fine if you have the time to mess with them, but a good IR will sounds pretty decent right away. I use mine live DI'd to the board all the time, been using the ML Mesa "Best IR" or another Mesa OS IR from Studio Cat (I think their IRs are available from Lancaster Audio now).


----------



## sleewell

isn't the global noise gate exactly the same as using a noise gate block? what is the benefit to using the global one? i like using the block version bc you can turn it on and off for each snapshot so my cleans don't have it.


----------



## Rev2010

sleewell said:


> isn't the global noise gate exactly the same as using a noise gate block? what is the benefit to using the global one?



Basically, except it's the first thing in the chain and you can't move it. It's benefit is so that you can have a pre and post noise gate and only use one effect block. Since the input gate is usually set to act on a clean tone (pickup noise and such) you don't really need to turn it off and just have the post gain noisegate that is being used to silence amp noise from using gain get turned off via the snapshot when switching to clean snapshots.


Rev.


----------



## sakeido

Rev2010 said:


> Yes, using an IR will be an improvement. I like using the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters 1 collection. Go through the A1 picks. As far as amps, I don't find any cardboard sound. I'm a Recto guy and the Recto model alone doesn't do it for me so I use a combination of Recto and the Line 6 Epic going into the same single IR. I've found the Revv Generator model and Engl Fireball (Meteor) to also be excellent high gain amps and the 5150 (Panama) model is good too. Don't be shy to try a blend of two amps into in IR/cab. I use a an EQ block after the IR but it's for small tweaks. Sounds great to me but yeah... my current Recto/Epic patch did take some time to really dial in and get it awesome. I found messing with the Revv Generator model to produce quicker great sounding results. Personally, I found that dialing down the agression, BIAS, and BIAS X all the way down to zero really opened up the sound and actually greatly improved it (in my personal opinion of course).
> 
> 
> Rev.


I own a ton of Ownhammer cabs so I'll load those in and try that. 



mikah912 said:


> You're going into it with the wrong mindset if you think you absolutely have to do EQ blocks or other trickery to make it sound good. Stick with the Revv, Archon, Placater Dirty/Friedman BE100 and Badonk amp models. Use an IR you like. Keep the gain moderate and use the gate on the input block instead of a dedicated noise gate block.
> 
> Oh, and add a moderate Room reverb at the end. Done.



I went from music store -> jam space -> playing in 20 minutes , so EQ block seemed to be the most quick and dirty way to open up the sound a little bit. 

is the consensus that the Recto model is no good? it didn't feel anything like my Recto or even really sound like one. I switched to the Mark IV Lead model halfway through the jam and liked it a lot better. 

this band I do a lot of weedly weedly long sustained lead notes and whatnot so a liquid, compressed, high sustain lead sound is what I'm going for.


----------



## Rev2010

sakeido said:


> is the consensus that the Recto model is no good? it didn't feel anything like my Recto or even really sound like one.



It's not horrible, just not great. I can't confirm this but people online have said a couple of times they used some non-preferred Recto revision or something to that effect to model from. I dunno. I just know that I had a Triple Rec and it sounded way better. The Helix model is a bit too fizzy and not ballsy enough. But when I added the Line 6 Epic it brought the life into it that was missing. I really wish they would model a current gen Triple Rec.


Rev.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Archon models are great for clean and dirt, I love the 2204 Mod amp as well, although might not be your cup of tea, Cartographer is super rad too but if time is of the essence dialing it in is a bit out there, Own Hammer IR's should do the trick the stock cabs are decent but a tad woolly for sure.


----------



## mikah912

sakeido said:


> I went from music store -> jam space -> playing in 20 minutes , so EQ block seemed to be the most quick and dirty way to open up the sound a little bit.
> 
> is the consensus that the Recto model is no good? it didn't feel anything like my Recto or even really sound like one. I switched to the Mark IV Lead model halfway through the jam and liked it a lot better.
> 
> this band I do a lot of weedly weedly long sustained lead notes and whatnot so a liquid, compressed, high sustain lead sound is what I'm going for.



Not a fan of the Recto. It's "half-modeled", with no Orange/Red or Vintage/Modern selectors. One of their earliest models, and not a particularly good one. 

The Badonk is what the Recto should sound like. Stick with that.


----------



## lewis

Anyone know if the HX Effects can do amp channel switching within presets and also include seperate paths that have an IR on to go to FOH/Monitoring?
So like each preset includes like 2 paths - 1 with a cab sim and 1 without? (But with any additional efx affecting both)?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> Anyone know if the HX Effects can do amp channel switching within presets and also include seperate paths that have an IR on to go to FOH/Monitoring?
> So like each preset includes like 2 paths - 1 with a cab sim and 1 without? (But with any additional efx affecting both)?



There is a way to do the amp switching IIRC. Just not well versed to do it. 

And you can do the latter. You'd just do a split at the very end of the path. Have path A be IR-less and path B have an IR. Pan path A hard left and path B hard right.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There is a way to do the amp switching IIRC. Just not well versed to do it.
> 
> And you can do the latter. You'd just do a split at the very end of the path. Have path A be IR-less and path B have an IR. Pan path A hard left and path B hard right.



Thats execellent news. Also looked into it more and its just a stereo cable that would go into the exp input on the amp. Then you insert the exp pedal block in the chain. Seems doable then.

Fantastic. This HX + Amp 1 Iridium is going to be alot more fun than my AX8 has been imo (cost less too)


----------



## Backsnack

sakeido said:


> direct to PA, so I figure that's why I needed the big EQ cuts. amps will typically care of that on their own
> 
> I didn't know there was a Revv or Archon in there. badass. the Helix is such an outrageously sexy unit I kinda hope I can fall in love with it, but I'm not sold on the modeling vs. Axe yet.


What kind of PA speakers?

I think you'll have a harder time dialing in a good tone for high gain with a typical plastic PA speaker vs. an FRFR plywood or birch cab.


----------



## sakeido

Backsnack said:


> What kind of PA speakers?
> 
> I think you'll have a harder time dialing in a good tone for high gain with a typical plastic PA speaker vs. an FRFR plywood or birch cab.



It was house PA. Good setup, Big Sugar played the same stage just a few days before. I heard very good things about the tone from the audience and the stream mix was apparently great... too bad our stage monitor mix was godawful and I couldn't hear shit for half the set 

Playing around with it more I found some much better tones - changing models helped a lot - and I absolutely LOVE the packaging of the Helix Floor, but overall I didn't enjoy it quite enough to want to fork out $2,200 cad for it. Rental went back for now but it doesn't look like the Axe FM3 will be ready for my next show so I'll rent the Helix again.


----------



## lewis

Got a Helix HX Effects turning up tomorrow to take care of my 4 cable method effects, Cab IRs going direct (FOH and FRFR) and amp channel switching all at the same time.

I cannot wait!! So excited.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Just got myself a Helix rack to do some recording as recording an amp is just not doable for me anymore. I'm shocked at how great it sounds for the most. My only question is about IRs and the cab sims. Are there any IRs I should be looking into that are considerably better than the built in?


----------



## ChugThisBoy

OliOliver said:


> Just got myself a Helix rack to do some recording as recording an amp is just not doable for me anymore. I'm shocked at how great it sounds for the most. My only question is about IRs and the cab sims. Are there any IRs I should be looking into that are considerably better than the built in?



Ownhammer, ChopTones, ML Sound Lab


----------



## lewis

On IRs because i havent looked into it yet -anyone know if the Misha Mansoor Axe fx pack of IRs - work with anything?

Because i bought that pack and rated them but now ive sold my AX8. Hoping to still ise them for my HX


----------



## ChugThisBoy

lewis said:


> On IRs because i havent looked into it yet -anyone know if the Misha Mansoor Axe fx pack of IRs - work with anything?
> 
> Because i bought that pack and rated them but now ive sold my AX8. Hoping to still ise them for my HX



I think they're only for Fractal stuff


----------



## lewis

ChugThisBoy said:


> I think they're only for Fractal stuff


Can they somehow be converted do you know?


----------



## ChugThisBoy

lewis said:


> Can they somehow be converted do you know?



According to their website: _NOTE! Cab Packs require an Axe-Fx III, Axe-Fx II, AX8, or the Cab-Lab 3 plugin. This pack is not compatible with Axe-Fx Ultra or Standard. There are NO RETURNS/REFUNDS on Cab Packs._

So I don't think that you can just convert some IR's to other format. But I can be wrong, maybe someone with more knowledge on the topic can prove me wrong.

https://shop.fractalaudio.com/ml-misha-mansoor-ultrares-cab-pack-bundle/


----------



## lewis

ChugThisBoy said:


> According to their website: _NOTE! Cab Packs require an Axe-Fx III, Axe-Fx II, AX8, or the Cab-Lab 3 plugin. This pack is not compatible with Axe-Fx Ultra or Standard. There are NO RETURNS/REFUNDS on Cab Packs._
> 
> So I don't think that you can just convert some IR's to other format. But I can be wrong, maybe someone with more knowledge on the topic can prove me wrong.
> 
> https://shop.fractalaudio.com/ml-misha-mansoor-ultrares-cab-pack-bundle/



Ah shame.

Guess for now i will have to rely on the Line 6 IRs (im assuming the HX Effects has them built in haha?)


----------



## Xaios

lewis said:


> Ah shame.
> 
> Guess for now i will have to rely on the Line 6 IRs (im assuming the HX Effects has them built in haha?)


The HX FX doesn't include the cab sims found on the regular Helix. It can, however, load IRs.


----------



## sakeido

OliOliver said:


> Just got myself a Helix rack to do some recording as recording an amp is just not doable for me anymore. I'm shocked at how great it sounds for the most. My only question is about IRs and the cab sims. Are there any IRs I should be looking into that are considerably better than the built in?



Ownhammer ftw. Rented a Helix again and this time loaded in some of my own IRs. They are way, way, way better than the built in cab sims.

Ownhammer Heavy Hitters collection is a really nice assortment of cabs, mics and speakers for a very fair price.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

sakeido said:


> Ownhammer ftw. Rented a Helix again and this time loaded in some of my own IRs. They are way, way, way better than the built in cab sims.
> 
> Ownhammer Heavy Hitters collection is a really nice assortment of cabs, mics and speakers for a very fair price.



Do you recommend HH 1 or 2? For typical high gain stuff lets say. I like stuff from Mesa, Zilla and Bogner the most I think


----------



## sakeido

ChugThisBoy said:


> Do you recommend HH 1 or 2? For typical high gain stuff lets say. I like stuff from Mesa, Zilla and Bogner the most I think



Heavy Hitters 1

but that's mostly because its the only one of the two that includes the Mesa oversized cab. The Diezel cab is good, Orange cab is okay for certain genres, and the Marshall Mode Four cab is surprisingly wicked for some stuff.

You could always go with single cab libraries instead, they are $20 cheaper but you get a way bigger assortment of speakers vs. the 3 speakers per cab you get in the Heavy Hitters pack. iirc if you want to try the Creamback+V30 blend that is trendy these days, you can only get it with a single cab pack


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Anyone get odd response like the input is overloading the modelling? It's got that sort of choppy-squashed attack as if I'm running a crazy fuzz, but I'm just going OD into amp into IR.


----------



## budda

Any required reading other than the manual before picking up an LT?


----------



## wakjob

Still shocked that all these high end modeling companies haven't done a collaboration with aftermarket IR makers.

If it were my companies device, I'd want it going out the door working at its best.


----------



## Lemonbaby

I might have too low standards, but I have no issues with the Helix IRs out of the box.


----------



## GoldDragon

sakeido said:


> Ownhammer ftw. Rented a Helix again and this time loaded in some of my own IRs. They are way, way, way better than the built in cab sims.
> 
> Ownhammer Heavy Hitters collection is a really nice assortment of cabs, mics and speakers for a very fair price.



How do you rent a Helix? Or any music gear? For a price that won't make you go negative for a gig?


----------



## sakeido

GoldDragon said:


> How do you rent a Helix? Or any music gear? For a price that won't make you go negative for a gig?



I def went negative for the gig.. even if I had zero expenses, it would have worked out to about 30 cents an hour for all the work put in, so it's not a big loss


----------



## budda

GoldDragon said:


> How do you rent a Helix? Or any music gear? For a price that won't make you go negative for a gig?



Does GC rent?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

budda said:


> Does GC rent?



Some locations used to years ago, but I don't think they do that anymore. Usually there are professional backline companies.



GoldDragon said:


> How do you rent a Helix? Or any music gear? For a price that won't make you go negative for a gig?



Unless things have changed in 15 years, you put down a fairly large deposit (or a suitable credit card) and then pay a flat rate.


----------



## lewis

how do you get IRs to work in HX Effects?

I have my HX Edit software open. Ive inserted an IR block into my chain and selected an IR from my list. But the second its activated it silences/mutes signal. There is no audio whatsoever. When I click the power button to deactivate the block I get my signal back - guitar amp sound with no cab on it so static sounding.
What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Backsnack

GoldDragon said:


> How do you rent a Helix? Or any music gear? For a price that won't make you go negative for a gig?


You could try Fretish. I haven't tried it personally, but it seems like a cool way to long-term demo a more expensive piece of gear to see if you like it.

https://fretish.com/


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Hi. New to HX family here. I got my HX Stomp a month ago to have sth simple for distant shows (going straight into FOH). I was dissapointed at first. Stock cab sims just suck. After an update, they sucked less, but still underwhelming. I got some IRs and it is a whole new experience. 
I got metal mix and producer pack from sinmix. They are GReAT. Very good consumer care. Quick answers and overall very very good impression. Highly recommend them.
After that, my HX Stomp is on the whole new level. It can compete with the bigger brothers for fraction of the price and for size/convienience/simplicity sakes.
Cheers.


----------



## mikah912

Yep. The Sinmix packs for the Helix family are must-haves for high gain. Even if you don't like buying third party presets, he includes a ton of great IRs from his personal collection of cabs.


----------



## sakeido

MaxOfMetal said:


> Some locations used to years ago, but I don't think they do that anymore. Usually there are professional backline companies.
> 
> Unless things have changed in 15 years, you put down a fairly large deposit (or a suitable credit card) and then pay a flat rate.



Long & McQuade Canada

$25 for a day, $50 for a week, $100 for a month for the full Helix. LT is about 30% less.

No deposit on a Helix but they run a background check if the gear you're renting is over a certain amount.


----------



## Zalbu

I'm planning on buying the Helix LT sometime in the near future, but is it possible to have it hooked up to both your audio interface with XLR cables for recording and to a FRFR speaker with 1/4 cables for jamming and have sound playing through both? I like to just set it and forget it and not have to mess around with plugging in/unplugging a bunch of cables whenever I want to play or record stuff.


----------



## sleewell

Zalbu said:


> I'm planning on buying the Helix LT sometime in the near future, but is it possible to have it hooked up to both your audio interface with XLR cables for recording and to a FRFR speaker with 1/4 cables for jamming and have sound playing through both? I like to just set it and forget it and not have to mess around with plugging in/unplugging a bunch of cables whenever I want to play or record stuff.




yes. pretty much if you can imagine it the LT can do it.


----------



## Rev2010

Zalbu said:


> I'm planning on buying the Helix LT sometime in the near future, but is it possible to have it hooked up to both your audio interface with XLR cables for recording and to a FRFR speaker with 1/4 cables for jamming and have sound playing through both?



I would highly recommend buying Helix Native along with it for the $99 and sending the dry signal to your DAW for recording (using the Helix Native plugin to provide the same sound as your LT patches) whilst playing the LT through your FRFR for jamming and such. You can have both hooked up at the same time but the benefit is if you decided to tweak your tone down the line, or if they come up with a killer new amp you switch to, you can simply update your Native patch rather than have to re-record the parts.


Rev.


----------



## Zalbu

Good to hear, I'm going to look into getting the Helix Native as well.

Another question, is mono or stereo XLR the way to go when recording directly into your DAW? I want to have an XLR microphone connected to my interface as well as having the Helix plugged in, but my problem is that I'd have to upgrade my interface as well because I only have one XLR input on my current interface.

Good quality interfaces that have 4 or more XLR inputs are pretty damn expensive, so if I want to have both my microphone and Helix plugged in then I'd have to have the Helix running in mono, but does it really matter for just a hobbyist recording guitars for fun?


----------



## RobertVII

An update is coming soon!

2.9 Model Updates:

-Revv Purple (Ch3)
-1x12 Fullerton and Grammatico Cabs
-Red Llama Drive
-Steve Vai Legendary Drive
-Harmonic Antagonizer Fuzz
-Rochester Comp (Billy Sheehan Compressor)
-Small Stone Phaser
-Split Dynamics (Path A/B Routing)

Feature Updates:

-Output Meters
-Gain Reduction Meters
-Clip Indicators
-IR Attachment by Name
-New Switch/Snap/Looper Layout Options
-New Model Subcategory Shortcuts
-Update from HX Edit
-A/B Compare for HX Native

Available “soon.”

I was also reading in some of the forums that the HX stomp 6 block limit will be expanded to 8 with the 3.0 update later down the line. This isn't hard confirmed in writing though.


----------



## sleewell

damn, that update sounds sweet!!! can't wait.


----------



## Rev2010

Zalbu said:


> Another question, is mono or stereo XLR the way to go when recording directly into your DAW?



Depends on the source. Anything mono should be recorded mono. Stereo sources you record stereo. So vocals, guitar, bass for example you should record mono. If you want it to sound stereo you either record two takes and pan left/right or route the mono track to a stereo group/bus then put a stereo reverb on that group/bus.


Rev.


----------



## sakeido

Rev2010 said:


> I would highly recommend buying Helix Native along with it for the $99 and sending the dry signal to your DAW for recording (using the Helix Native plugin to provide the same sound as your LT patches) whilst playing the LT through your FRFR for jamming and such. You can have both hooked up at the same time but the benefit is if you decided to tweak your tone down the line, or if they come up with a killer new amp you switch to, you can simply update your Native patch rather than have to re-record the parts.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Big +1 to this

Using outboard gear is fun and all but the workflow of software VSTs is extremely convenient. Hands down my favorite way to record, especially if you are doing a lot of edits or comping for a super tight sound. I'd only go hardware if your computer can't handle a lot of Helix instances.


----------



## Rev2010

sakeido said:


> I'd only go hardware if your computer can't handle a lot of Helix instances.



Helix Native does indeed use a good amount of CPU power, depending on your presets of course. My primary preset is a dual amp configuration running into a single IR. I've got an i7 4790K and it's pretty darn powerful so I usually just create a new set of tracks for each part (verse, chorus, etc) especially because sometimes the levels need to be a bit different between parts. I found though that my preset being dual amp is pretty intensive on CPU so I had to stop doing that and now I mostly just use volume automation to change levels and only create new tracks when the preset needs to be different. Working good this way.


Rev.


----------



## Backsnack

RobertVII said:


> An update is coming soon!
> 
> 2.9 Model Updates:
> 
> -Revv Purple (Ch3)
> -1x12 Fullerton and Grammatico Cabs
> -Red Llama Drive
> -Steve Vai Legendary Drive
> -Harmonic Antagonizer Fuzz
> -Rochester Comp (Billy Sheehan Compressor)
> -Small Stone Phaser
> -Split Dynamics (Path A/B Routing)
> 
> Feature Updates:
> 
> -Output Meters
> -Gain Reduction Meters
> -Clip Indicators
> -IR Attachment by Name
> -New Switch/Snap/Looper Layout Options
> -New Model Subcategory Shortcuts
> -Update from HX Edit
> -A/B Compare for HX Native
> 
> Available “soon.”
> 
> I was also reading in some of the forums that the HX stomp 6 block limit will be expanded to 8 with the 3.0 update later down the line. This isn't hard confirmed in writing though.


Wonder if the block counts will increase for the other hardware also?


----------



## Backsnack

I'm idly wondering when Line6 will supercede the Helix line with the next big thing. I think the original Helix floor came out in 2014? Seems like they're in it for the long haul ...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Backsnack said:


> I'm idly wondering when Line6 will supercede the Helix line with the next big thing. I think the original Helix floor came out in 2014? Seems like they're in it for the long haul ...



Mid-late 2015.


----------



## Metropolis

Backsnack said:


> I'm idly wondering when Line6 will supercede the Helix line with the next big thing. I think the original Helix floor came out in 2014? Seems like they're in it for the long haul ...



It was 2015. If Pod HD was 2010, HD X-versions three years later in 2013, then it would be possible to expect something in couple of years... maybe if this five or so years pattern turns out to be true.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Axe FX II also had a new version with more processing power on boar about 3 years into it's lifespan. I'd guess the next thing for Line 6 to do would be a Helix XL/Helix LT-XL.


----------



## Backsnack

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Axe FX II also had a new version with more processing power on boar about 3 years into it's lifespan. I'd guess the next thing for Line 6 to do would be a Helix XL/Helix LT-XL.


My suspicion is that they’d probably shrink the various floorboards since almost everything that’s been released after the Helix competing with it have been smaller.


----------



## spudmunkey

Backsnack said:


> My suspicion is that they’d probably shrink the various floorboards since almost everything that’s been released after the Helix competing with it have been smaller.



There's definitely a market, though, for something where you don't need ballet slippers on to not hit neighboring footswitches, and a robust expession pedal.


----------



## Avedas

Finally metering in the next update? Thank god.


----------



## AndiKravljaca

I just want a couple of power amp blocks, so I can plug a Synergy preamp into something that'll add a little power amp character to it. I'm not asking for separate power amp blocks for every amplifier, but like, one EL34 power amp and one 6L6 power amp based on a popular rackmount model shouldn't be that hard to do. It would open the Helix up to a whole new sort of usage.


----------



## sleewell

AndiKravljaca said:


> I just want a couple of power amp blocks, so I can plug a Synergy preamp into something that'll add a little power amp character to it. I'm not asking for separate power amp blocks for every amplifier, but like, one EL34 power amp and one 6L6 power amp based on a popular rackmount model shouldn't be that hard to do. It would open the Helix up to a whole new sort of usage.




since they already have preamp blocks this would be a really great idea. in addition to what you described it would basically allow you to see if you liked any amp better with different power amp tubes. they could just make one power amp block that has the ability to swap types of tubes and wattage.


----------



## lewis

Avedas said:


> Finally metering in the next update? Thank god.


Whats metering?

Also poweramp emulation efx blocks would be outstanding


----------



## Avedas

lewis said:


> Whats metering?
> 
> Also poweramp emulation efx blocks would be outstanding


There's currently no way to tell how hot your signal is without hooking up to a mixer or DAW. Metering has been one of the most requested features for a long time now.


----------



## lewis

Avedas said:


> There's currently no way to tell how hot your signal is without hooking up to a mixer or DAW. Metering has been one of the most requested features for a long time now.


Oh of course. Silly me haha.

Yeah defo needed


----------



## sleewell

does anyone blend 2 amp sims at once on the helix for their high gain tones?

i am going to try blending the revv and badonk next rehearsal, sounded pretty good last night at home. 

wondering if people have any tips or recommendations based on what they have tried. thanks!


----------



## Steo

I kinda run something like this. I run tube screamer esque boost into tight metal pedal. That then goes into Mark series sim on hx stomp. Headphones out (at home) or f/x return on Laney Ironheart studio (at practice)


----------



## GunpointMetal

sleewell said:


> does anyone blend 2 amp sims at once on the helix for their high gain tones?
> 
> i am going to try blending the revv and badonk next rehearsal, sounded pretty good last night at home.
> 
> wondering if people have any tips or recommendations based on what they have tried. thanks!


My main live tone for my 9-strings has been an Engl amp model and the 5150 model after a boost and a frequency split (over 300Hz to engl, lows to 5150), the mixed back together right before a Mesa OS IR.


----------



## Rev2010

sleewell said:


> does anyone blend 2 amp sims at once on the helix for their high gain tones?



I do. I blend a Rectifier and the Line 6 Epic. Just using single amp I feel it sounds a bit too thin. Together they sound kickass. I posted a song I did on my 6-string tuned down to B standard here: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...-factory-slipknot-soulfly-kinda-style.340151/

Using an OwnHammer IR btw.


Rev.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I used to blend the Friedman with the Badonk, or the Badonk with the IV. The Badonk blends well with a midrange heavy amp. Never tried blending it with the Revv


----------



## Lemonbaby

GunpointMetal said:


> My main live tone for my 9-strings has been an Engl amp model and the 5150 model after a boost and a frequency split (over 300Hz to engl, lows to 5150), the mixed back together right before a Mesa OS IR.


Where can I find the split block - EQs?


----------



## GunpointMetal

Lemonbaby said:


> Where can I find the split block - EQs?


drag a block “down” to split the path, then move the cursor to the split point, you should be able to choose what kind of split.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

I know it might seem stupid for many of You, but recently I found one main remedy for my HX sounds: LA studio compressor set behind the amp, before mod/dly/rev. If set right it gives that ooommmphhh and saggy chug similar to my valve amps.


----------



## sleewell

Wolfhorsky said:


> I know it might seem stupid for many of You, but recently I found one main remedy for my HX sounds: LA studio compressor set behind the amp, before mod/dly/rev. If set right it gives that ooommmphhh and saggy chug similar to my valve amps.




I'll try it! Stock settings on the comp or anything in particular?


----------



## Wolfhorsky

sleewell said:


> I'll try it! Stock settings on the comp or anything in particular?



I use Hedgehog D9 ->Revv Red ->LA Studio Comp ->Cali Q Graphic (EQ from Mesa Mark) ->Delay -> Reverb
Compressor set:
PkRedc = 6.5 
Gain = 6.9
Type = Comp
Emphs = 0.9
Mix = 100%
Level to taste


----------



## sleewell

Wolfhorsky said:


> I know it might seem stupid for many of You, but recently I found one main remedy for my HX sounds: LA studio compressor set behind the amp, before mod/dly/rev. If set right it gives that ooommmphhh and saggy chug similar to my valve amps.




tried this on sat night and it was awesome. thanks for the tip!!!


----------



## lewis

Wolfhorsky said:


> I use Hedgehog D9 ->Revv Red ->LA Studio Comp ->Cali Q Graphic (EQ from Mesa Mark) ->Delay -> Reverb
> Compressor set:
> PkRedc = 6.5
> Gain = 6.9
> Type = Comp
> Emphs = 0.9
> Mix = 100%
> Level to taste



I 4CM the HX Effects with an Amp1 Iridium. Even though that already feels like a tube amp, im going to try this tip and put the compressor in its loop and see what happens.


----------



## budda

Did the update roll out?


----------



## Wolfhorsky

lewis said:


> I 4CM the HX Effects with an Amp1 Iridium. Even though that already feels like a tube amp, im going to try this tip and put the compressor in its loop and see what happens.


Any thoughts? Any feedback?


----------



## sleewell

budda said:


> Did the update roll out?




not yet but some of the wireless units catch fire which is probably not sweet.


----------



## lewis

Wolfhorsky said:


> Any thoughts? Any feedback?


Still cant work out if its necessary or not with the Iridium. It is pretty tube like and chunky as is.

Will play more later. So far ive only used my single coil strat and tried it


----------



## Wolfhorsky

lewis said:


> Still cant work out if its necessary or not with the Iridium. It is pretty tube like and chunky as is.
> 
> Will play more later. So far ive only used my single coil strat and tried it


Thanks for Your reply, mate. Maybe that microtube thing is not just a gimmick, but it is in fact a tube driven compressor.


----------



## lewis

Wolfhorsky said:


> Thanks for Your reply, mate. Maybe that microtube thing is not just a gimmick, but it is in fact a tube driven compressor.


Its defo not a gimmick bro.


----------



## projectjetfire

In my downtime, Im looking at my Helix and loving it for home jams. I do have a couple of questions: 

Are the DT770 250 ohm headphones still considered one of the best options for home practice?

For djenty metal (Im currently a Riffhard.com member and Im doing metal riffing with my 26.5 scale Ibanez SRGEX2 in Bb), are there any really good presets out there? Im using my own that Ive created, just curious if there any others around. 

What power amps are people using to run into a powered cab? Ive used a SD170 in a couple of different cabs and I didnt like it that much  but that could be more down the helix rather than the SD.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

projectjetfire said:


> In my downtime, Im looking at my Helix and loving it for home jams. I do have a couple of questions:
> 
> Are the DT770 250 ohm headphones still considered one of the best options for home practice?
> 
> For djenty metal (Im currently a Riffhard.com member and Im doing metal riffing with my 26.5 scale Ibanez SRGEX2 in Bb), are there any really good presets out there? Im using my own that Ive created, just curious if there any others around.
> 
> What power amps are people using to run into a powered cab? Ive used a SD170 in a couple of different cabs and I didnt like it that much  but that could be more down the helix rather than the SD.


Not, it is SD PS170, bro. I have it and it is stiff and lacks any sustain. My remedy is the use of the compressor after the amp block.


----------



## projectjetfire

Interesting! What compressor are you using? I can still borrow a SD170 if needs be so I could do that


----------



## sleewell

LA studio comp


----------



## Wolfhorsky

projectjetfire said:


> Interesting! What compressor are you using? I can still borrow a SD170 if needs be so I could do that


Browse to the prevous page.


----------



## lewis

I miss my old quadruple out front pedal rig of:

Keeley 4 knob compressor>ISP Decimator>Maxon OD808>Boss NS2>Amp

Im going to repurchase them all and never sell again. Trying this in the HX effects just never yields the same results as the real pedals.

Also, anyone know when the latest firmware is out that includes more blocks and metering? (it might be already)


----------



## GunpointMetal

projectjetfire said:


> In my downtime, Im looking at my Helix and loving it for home jams. I do have a couple of questions:
> 
> Are the DT770 250 ohm headphones still considered one of the best options for home practice?
> 
> For djenty metal (Im currently a Riffhard.com member and Im doing metal riffing with my 26.5 scale Ibanez SRGEX2 in Bb), are there any really good presets out there? Im using my own that Ive created, just curious if there any others around.
> 
> What power amps are people using to run into a powered cab? Ive used a SD170 in a couple of different cabs and I didnt like it that much  but that could be more down the helix rather than the SD.


Those headphones are great! When you're using the Helix with your power amp/cab setup are you using presets built for it or using the same headphones presets? There's nothing in the power amp you have that will change the sound or feel of what is going into it unless you change the EQ controls on the power amp. It's a high-headroom class D amplifier. What goes in, comes out.


----------



## lewis

tried two OD pedals back to back in the chain today the Stupor model (boss sd1) Both clean boosting with tone around 7.5

instant Whitechapel!


----------



## Ralyks

Just sold my HX Stomp and got a Helix LT. First off, goddamn this thing is great. Second, trying to get a Holdsworth lead-style tone but maybe a little more "metal"ness to it I suppose.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Someone might have to update the title of this thread. 2.90 is now live.


----------



## sleewell

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!


----------



## Blasphemer

Loving the meters, Red Llama, and Revv purple channel!


----------



## Avedas

Wolfhorsky said:


> Any thoughts? Any feedback?


I just tried out your tip. Sounds killer man.

I just updated to 2.90 and the Revv Purple is insane. Loving it. I liked the Red channel for certain things but Purple has a profile that suits me a lot better.


----------



## lewis

using the front panel of the HX Effects, how do we find "metering"?


----------



## Avedas

Tuner and tap tempo is all wonky. Weird time delay and not really working properly. Tap tempo is a few bpm faster than whatever you tap for an input. I haven't figured out how metering works yet.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Damn will have to update tonight.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

got update downloaded will dig in tomorrow, I have sadly neglected my Helix far too much but got the update done and uploaded all the A1 pick IR's from the OwnHammer heavy hitters 1 pack, so hopefully can unleash the beast now, switched roles at work so have a bit of time to live a little now! sorry to ramble.


----------



## Aewrik

Nice title of the update..


> Helix/HX Firmware 2.90 | Helix Native 1.90
> 
> "The Always Level Presets By Ear at Stage Volume with the Rest of the Band Playing Update"


----------



## lewis

i thought we were getting an extra block added?
I dont appear to have that on he HX Effects


----------



## GunpointMetal

The HX Stomp is getting two more with 3.0, FX/LT/Floor/Rack are all staying the same.


lewis said:


> i thought we were getting an extra block added?
> I dont appear to have that on he HX Effects


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> The HX Stomp is getting two more with 3.0, FX/LT/Floor/Rack are all staying the same.



Ah bollocks!

I really need that other one. Ah well

I guess my plan of longterm buying the physical compressor and OD pedals Im using atm inside the HX effects, is the way to go because that will free up about 3 or so blocks.

It will eventually be a glorified Delay, Reverb and Lofi guitar effect on my pedalboard haha


----------



## Wolfhorsky

YEah, just underwhelmed then I found out that added blocks feature is not incl. in this update. Shoot.


----------



## Digital Igloo

Helix/HX 2.91 and Helix Native 1.91 Hotfix Updates are now live. Please carefully read the Release Notes here.


----------



## Aewrik

Haha, crap. I jumped the gun redoing a couple of presets for this function, only to realize HX Stomp doesn't have the command center..!



> *Command Center > HX Preset*
> 
> _Helix Floor, Helix Rack/Control, Helix LT, HX Effects_
> 
> A new Command Center command type lets you assign any preset (or Next Preset or Previous Preset) to any stomp switch. Together with HX Snapshot and HX Looper commands, you can now customize Stomp footswitch mode to your liking.



Ah well, guess I'm stuck with the TT-2 instead of an expression pedal. No biggie, some money saved : )


----------



## Iron1

I loaded the update and somehow lost a preset I'd saved right beforehand and all my levels dropped. Time to dig in and figure out what happened...


----------



## op1e

Do I have to use the send on the side to run into my real amp/cab and direct. I tried for hours yesterday figuring it out. I split the signal before the IR and panned hard both sides at the split and the rejoin and the IR still affected my tone on the real amp side. I didn't use a stereo EQ at the end so maybe that's why. I wanna keep the send on the side for my real overdrive to have it on for heavy patches and out of the signal path for cleans. I just need a template patch argh.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Iron1 said:


> I loaded the update and somehow lost a preset I'd saved right beforehand and all my levels dropped. Time to dig in and figure out what happened...


Did you reload the backup you made during the update?


----------



## Iron1

GunpointMetal said:


> Did you reload the backup you made during the update?



Not yet - haven't decided if it's worth potentially losing anything else.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Iron1 said:


> Not yet - haven't decided if it's worth potentially losing anything else.


If you saved the patch right before you updated, and you followed the update instructions, your backup you made during the update should have your patch you're looking for, as well as resetting your global settings.


----------



## Avedas

Tuner bug is not a "known issue" and is definitely not fixed with 2.91 on my unit. Please excuse me while I go flip a table.


----------



## lewis

Avedas said:


> Tuner bug is not a "known issue" and is definitely not fixed with 2.91 on my unit. Please excuse me while I go flip a table.


IME Line 6 tuners have always been shit bug or no bug anyway.

Nothing beats just a no nonsense dedicated tuner pedal on a board infront of you.
One of the first things Im going to purchase will be a Korg Pitchblack.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Avedas said:


> Tuner bug is not a "known issue" and is definitely not fixed with 2.91 on my unit. Please excuse me while I go flip a table.


What is wrong with your tuner? After they added the fine and strobe modes mine works excellently even with my stupid-low tuned guitars.


----------



## Avedas

GunpointMetal said:


> What is wrong with your tuner? After they added the fine and strobe modes mine works excellently even with my stupid-low tuned guitars.


It registers inputs about ~5 seconds late, making it nearly useless. This only happened with 2.90 update, and there were a few other LT owners on the Helix forum with the same issue. I've been using the tuner without a problem for years until now.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Avedas said:


> It registers inputs about ~5 seconds late, making it nearly useless. This only happened with 2.90 update, and there were a few other LT owners on the Helix forum with the same issue. I've been using the tuner without a problem for years until now.


That's shitty. I'm always curious as to how some units are affected by stuff like this and others aren't. The only correlated one I've seen is that almost everyone that was having HX Edit connection issues was using a 8-10 year old Mac with the current OS installed, other than that it seems pretty random. I'm just gonna keep knocking on wood and having my fingers crossed. So far all the updates have gone smoothly for me.


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> What is wrong with your tuner? After they added the fine and strobe modes mine works excellently even with my stupid-low tuned guitars.


thats weird. Im also tuned low and mines shit


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> thats weird. Im also tuned low and mines shit


 It was really garbage with the original tuner mode, couldn't tune below B without issues. Like it literally wouldn't pick up my low E on my eight string or the low A on my bassists bass. Since they added the Fine and Strobe Modes it picks up just fine, checked against an expensive Peterson Desktop strobe and it well within my tolerances for live performance.


----------



## sleewell

i'm still using the original tuner and have no issues in A.


----------



## nickgray

GunpointMetal said:


> couldn't tune below B without issues.



It's a pretty well known trick, but just in case, rolling off tone completely and switching to the neck pickup really helps with low tunings. Works for active basses too, switching to the neck pickup and dialing the treble all the way down makes the tuner way more responsive.


----------



## GunpointMetal

nickgray said:


> It's a pretty well known trick, but just in case, rolling off tone completely and switching to the neck pickup really helps with low tunings. Works for active basses too, switching to the neck pickup and dialing the treble all the way down makes the tuner way more responsive.


 Well aware. It's a good general idea anyways because it cuts down on overtones, no matter where you're tuning to.


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> It was really garbage with the original tuner mode, couldn't tune below B without issues. Like it literally wouldn't pick up my low E on my eight string or the low A on my bassists bass. Since they added the Fine and Strobe Modes it picks up just fine, checked against an expensive Peterson Desktop strobe and it well within my tolerances for live performance.


yeah im using fine mode too.

Hmmm

weird


----------



## Avedas

Strobe mode tunes my bass in Ab without any issues.

Well, it used to. Now it doesn't tune anything.


----------



## Iron1

GunpointMetal said:


> I'm always curious as to how some units are affected by stuff like this and others aren't. The only correlated one I've seen is that almost everyone that was having HX Edit connection issues was using a 8-10 year old Mac with the current OS installed, other than that it seems pretty random.



I have an 8-year-old MacBook with current OS and once every so often I'll turn on my Stomp and get this garbage tone on every preset. I On/Off it and voila, it works fine. Not sure if that's in the arena of what you're referring to, though.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Iron1 said:


> I have an 8-year-old MacBook with current OS and once every so often I'll turn on my Stomp and get this garbage tone on every preset. I On/Off it and voila, it works fine. Not sure if that's in the arena of what you're referring to, though.


I was mostly referring to the people who have major malfunctions after updates, or major computer connectivity issues. Those problems seem very common to the old MBs with current OS installations. I guess if I paid that much for a laptop I'd probably be milking it as long as it turned on, too, but its kinda the PC equivalent of running a PC that shipped with Win7 with Win10. Yeah it will work, but developers aren't worried about your old ass hardware anymore, lol. Your issue sounds like a AD/DA converter thing and you should probably open a support ticket.


----------



## Avedas

GunpointMetal said:


> I was mostly referring to the people who have major malfunctions after updates, or major computer connectivity issues. Those problems seem very common to the old MBs with current OS installations. I guess if I paid that much for a laptop I'd probably be milking it as long as it turned on, too, but its kinda the PC equivalent of running a PC that shipped with Win7 with Win10. Yeah it will work, but developers aren't worried about your old ass hardware anymore, lol. Your issue sounds like a AD/DA converter thing and you should probably open a support ticket.


These issues are almost entirely because Apple dropped 32bit support from macOS. The good news is you can always boot Windows or Linux in a pinch.


----------



## Iron1

GunpointMetal said:


> I was mostly referring to the people who have major malfunctions after updates, or major computer connectivity issues. Those problems seem very common to the old MBs with current OS installations. I guess if I paid that much for a laptop I'd probably be milking it as long as it turned on, too, but its kinda the PC equivalent of running a PC that shipped with Win7 with Win10. Yeah it will work, but developers aren't worried about your old ass hardware anymore, lol. Your issue sounds like a AD/DA converter thing and you should probably open a support ticket.



I didn't know there was such a thing as an 8 year old Windows laptop that still worked...  

By support ticket, I'm assuming you mean with Line 6?


----------



## GunpointMetal

Iron1 said:


> I didn't know there was such a thing as an 8 year old Windows laptop that still worked...
> 
> By support ticket, I'm assuming you mean with Line 6?


I don't know, pretty much every PC I've owned since ~2003 has lived a long full life and was still functional enough to be passed on to someone who needed it. I've also never paid over $1k for a computer, so I don't feel like I'm losing anything replacing them every 5-6 years, lol.
But yes, through Line 6 Support. They have probably the best customer support staff in the industry.


----------



## nickgray

GunpointMetal said:


> don't know, pretty much every PC I've owned since ~2003 has lived a long full life and was still functional enough to be passed on to someone who needed it



Offtopic, but couldn't agree more. I'm still rocking a 9 year old CPU with an 8 year old graphics card, and I've played through Doom Eternal recently. Granted, it's kinda on its last legs in terms of gaming performance (for recent titles, previous Doom runs butter smooth on high settings), but for day to day stuff and tinkering with VSTs it still works perfectly. It's pretty insane how far hardware has come compared to 2000s or even 90s, where everything could get totally obsolete in a span of a year or two.


----------



## Gander

Hey fellas, I'm looking to buy a Line 6 Helix Rack model, but I wanted to know, how is the quality of the unit these days?

I was watching some videos, almost all of them being comparisons against Kemper and Fractal, and it seems that the high gain on the Line 6 is very "hissy/fuzzy" and bright, at least compared to the rest. Has that being fixed? Because these videos I'm talking about are 3 years old, and the Helix receiving updates I assume it has been getting better.

Also, is $ 1300 a good price for an used one in Mint condition? I'm very excited to make this purchase since it would be my first Amp Modeler (I finally have money for one).

Thanks beforehand.


----------



## nickgray

Gandr said:


> comparisons



Helix Native has a free fully functioning trial. Same algos as hardware, but the input on hardware is hotter than the suggested settings for Native, but you can adjust that if needed. Stock cabs are pretty crappy, so make sure to use your own IRs.

As far as comparisons - I've spend quite a lot of time hunting comparisons between Axe Fx and Helix, and there are very-very few good ones. A lot of Helix demos will also use stock cabs, which won't give you a full picture of the amp sim quality. Imo, in the few good comparisons that I've found, Helix was on par in terms of overall quality with minor timbre differences that are to be expected. By and large, IR makes the biggest difference for tones.



Gandr said:


> Helix Rack



Why are you looking at a rack unit specifically? The editing software for Helix is superior in terms ease of use and convenience. Plus, together with a floor controller, it's the most expensive option. Consider Helix Floor and Helix LT. Floor has scribble strips, more I/O and it's sturdier built, but none of those are killer features, at least imo. LT doesn't have scribble strips, but it does have a large screen that can show you the names (customizable) for 8 footswitches, not as convenient, but LT is quite a bit cheaper.


----------



## Gander

nickgray said:


> Helix Native has a free fully functioning trial. Same algos as hardware, but the input on hardware is hotter than the suggested settings for Native, but you can adjust that if needed. Stock cabs are pretty crappy, so make sure to use your own IRs.
> 
> As far as comparisons - I've spend quite a lot of time hunting comparisons between Axe Fx and Helix, and there are very-very few good ones. A lot of Helix demos will also use stock cabs, which won't give you a full picture of the amp sim quality. Imo, in the few good comparisons that I've found, Helix was on par in terms of overall quality with minor timbre differences that are to be expected. By and large, IR makes the biggest difference for tones.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you looking at a rack unit specifically? The editing software for Helix is superior in terms ease of use and convenience. Plus, together with a floor controller, it's the most expensive option. Consider Helix Floor and Helix LT. Floor has scribble strips, more I/O and it's sturdier built, but none of those are killer features, at least imo. LT doesn't have scribble strips, but it does have a large screen that can show you the names (customizable) for 8 footswitches, not as convenient, but LT is quite a bit cheaper.



I guess it is just my ignorance, again this would be my first amp modeler. 

I was planning to buy the Rack because bigger unit = better (see Axe FX III), but I was looking at the Helix because I don't have the 2k for that brand new thing.

So, if I am correct, I would get the same quality amp sims on the cheaper LT? 

That'd be great for my budget. Also, please consider that I am planning to use the Helix to record guitars and bass, so that is something worth considering.


----------



## budda

Yep, same internals on the LT - just less i/o as I recall.


----------



## nickgray

Gandr said:


> I was planning to buy the Rack because bigger unit = better (see Axe FX III)



Haha, fortunately that's not the case. There's also Fractal FM3 if you want to go Fractal route, not as powerful as the big guy, but same algos.



Gandr said:


> So, if I am correct, I would get the same quality amp sims on the cheaper LT?



Yes, exactly. In fact, even HX Stomp will have the same quality sims, albeit it's a more limited unit (6 blocks only atm, soon to be 8, but still, there's only one DSP to work with instead of two in the bigger units). Even the new POD Go has the same Helix algos, and it's only $450, though it has certain limitations like only having one IR block, plus it's not in the Helix family, so it won't mirror the updates for the Helix.



Gandr said:


> I am planning to use the Helix to record guitars and bass



I play a little bit of bass as well. Helix does pretty good bass tones. It has 14 amp models atm, there's a B7K sim and a Sansamp sim too.


----------



## Gander

Well I guess that settles it.
Thanks for the input. Very appreciated.

Next step should be to look into some good IR cab packs.


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Gandr said:


> Well I guess that settles it.
> Thanks for the input. Very appreciated.
> 
> Next step should be to look into some good IR cab packs.


Ownhammer and SinMix are really good imho.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Gandr said:


> Well I guess that settles it.
> Thanks for the input. Very appreciated.
> 
> Next step should be to look into some good IR cab packs.


If Metal is your thing I highly suggest ML Sound Lab. I've been through Ownhammer, Celestion, RedWirez, and about 5 other ones and the ML just drop in and sound good to me. Don't really need to mess with anything else other than the amp controls.


----------



## nickgray

Gandr said:


> Next step should be to look into some good IR cab packs.



Ownhammer, ML Sound Lab, York Audio. You probably want a 4x12 Recto, it's kinda the default cab for metal tones. All of these companies provide bundles that include their own mixes and separate mics. Probably start with the mixes, but be sure to check out separate mics and do your own mixes as well. Start with a 57, 57 on axis + off axis (Fredman technique), and 121, it's the most commonly used stuff. Check out Ignite NadIR for a free IR loader.


----------



## Gander

I'm quite familiar with NadIR, but I didn't know that it could be integrated with the Helix. Or am I misunderstanding you?


----------



## nickgray

Gandr said:


> I'm quite familiar with NadIR, but I didn't know that it could be integrated with the Helix. Or am I misunderstanding you?



It can't be integrated in any way, but you can use it with the demo of Helix Native, for example, or running a hardware unit without an IR block directly into the DAW with NadIR on the track. It's just way more convenient, as Helix (both Native and hardware) has only 128 slots, which is tons, but for demoing purposes it's not that much, plus you'd have to import IRs (which takes time on the hardware), basically, it's a headache. With NadIR you just have straight access to all the IRs on your hard drive, and blending two IRs is easier as well.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Pro-tip for IRs - stick with the manufacturer quick mixes, lol. Some of these guys are packing hundreds and hundreds of mics/mic positions into these packs and its daunting and 99% pointless unless you're in an absolutely critical recording situation and nothing else is working. IME 99% the reason the manufacturer picked the quick mixes is because they sound really good.


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> Pro-tip for IRs - stick with the manufacturer quick mixes, lol. Some of these guys are packing hundreds and hundreds of mics/mic positions into these packs and its daunting and 99% pointless unless you're in an absolutely critical recording situation and nothing else is working. IME 99% the reason the manufacturer picked the quick mixes is because they sound really good.



THIS!

Feck going down that rabbit hole again. Thousands of random IR mic/cab placements.
Eurgh.


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> THIS!
> 
> Feck going down that rabbit hole again. Thousands of random IR mic/cab placements.
> Eurgh.


I snagged the $10 Halloween pack from ML last year and I haven't touched any other IRs since. There was only like 9-10 IRs in that pack and they all sound great. I don't care if its an SM57 exactly at the right distance or whatever, as long as it sounds good.


----------



## Gander

Can you inject IRs directly into the Helix hardware?


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Gandr said:


> Can you inject IRs directly into the Helix hardware?



Yes I loaded my Ownhammer ones right on there did the one folder of top picks from heavy hitters 1 and they are all on now took me about 5 minutes


----------



## Gander

That sounded very drag-and-dropish, I like it, the antithesis of Apple design


----------



## Iron1

Anyone else experiencing this? After updating to v2.90, I was intermittently experiencing an issue where I'd turn on my HX Stomp and it would default to a very generic OD tone and not allow me to switch to any preset, factory or user. If I turn it off/on again, it usually works right, but sometimes I have to cycle it off/on multiple times for it to function properly. After I first updated, it was only doing it every few times I'd turn it on, but now it's every time. And, to make matters worse, the HX Edit is losing connection intermittently when I do get the unit to work properly. Put in a Support Ticket with L6, but since it's Saturday morning, I'm not expecting a reply anytime soon...


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> After updating to v2.90



There's a 2.91 hotfix already.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> There's a 2.91 hotfix already.



Cool - I'll DL it and see what happens.


----------



## Gander

NGearD for me, just to show guys I am not all talk and no action.
http://imgur.com/a/WSc7GyC
Thank you guys for your advice. 
Any newbie tips?


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> There's a 2.91 hotfix already.



Updated to that, which - so far - has fixed the issue of having to turn it off/on again to get the presets to load, but still having the issue where Edit randomly disconnects. Probably should have stuck with 2.80... ha.


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> but still having the issue where Edit randomly disconnects



Maybe it's just the usual USB-related shenanigans? Make sure the cable is plugged directly to the USB port on the motherboard (not via any sort of a hub, that includes ports on the PC case). Try a bunch of different ports and a different cable too.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> Maybe it's just the usual USB-related shenanigans? Make sure the cable is plugged directly to the USB port on the motherboard (not via any sort of a hub, that includes ports on the PC case). Try a bunch of different ports and a different cable too.



They're all good - never experienced this until the 2.9 update. All I have to do is close the app and reopen it and it fixes it. If it was a loose connection, that probably wouldn't work every time to fix it. But, good thinking - thanks for being helpful!


----------



## op1e

I'm getting a hum going direct that i wasn't getting before. I figured out how to run no cab sim to my amp and the right out has IR going to the board and running both outs there's hum I didn't have with just one. I'll try a mic cable but need an adapter. Tried 2 different 1/4 inch.


----------



## Blasphemer

op1e said:


> I'm getting a hum going direct that i wasn't getting before. I figured out how to run no cab sim to my amp and the right out has IR going to the board and running both outs there's hum I didn't have with just one. I'll try a mic cable but need an adapter. Tried 2 different 1/4 inch.



If I'm understanding you correctly, you have one 1/4" output with no IR going to an amp/cab and another 1/4" output with an IR going to your console? If this is the case and you lose the hum when unplugging one output, it sounds like you have a ground loop. Something liek this will help with that: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer/HD400.gc

I had a similar issue when running my Helix 4CM on tour. These do color the tone a tiny bit, but I'm quite sure it's just because the Behringer version has shit transformers inside. There are nicer ones by EBtech and other companies if you're willing to pay more of a premium.


----------



## lewis

What the heck is the power soloution for the HX effects on a pedalboard? 

Why the he'll they didn't make these IEC or something I don't know.

Their stock power supply is a plug that's a stupid shape and would cover about 3 sockets on an extension. I wanted my pedalboard to need only 2 power cables now it's looking like it will need to be 3 with the HX using its own dumb asf cable.


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> What the heck is the power soloution for the HX effects on a pedalboard?
> 
> Why the he'll they didn't make these IEC or something I don't know.
> 
> Their stock power supply is a plug that's a stupid shape and would cover about 3 sockets on an extension. I wanted my pedalboard to need only 2 power cables now it's looking like it will need to be 3 with the HX using its own dumb asf cable.


I honestly love L6, but they do some shit that doesn't make any sense sometimes. That PSU is one of them. Its the same one they used for the POD HD floor pedals and for a pedal it doesn't make ANY sense. If the PSU needs to be that big, put in in-line so you can stash it somewhere. It was a really common complaint and when I saw they used it for the FX I was kinda shocked, actually. Nobody liked that shape/design. They also fixed the compressor block in the Firehawk FX pedal behind the amp model, which was also a stupid decision.


----------



## Digital Igloo

lewis said:


> What the heck is the power soloution for the HX effects on a pedalboard? Why the he'll they didn't make these IEC or something I don't know.


A) IEC is huge and would blow up the footprint. B) Then you wouldn't be able to power it from your pedalboard power supply.


> Their stock power supply is a plug that's a stupid shape and would cover about 3 sockets on an extension. I wanted my pedalboard to need only 2 power cables now it's looking like it will need to be 3 with the HX using its own dumb asf cable.


No one hates that DC-3g power supply more than I do. After I complained loudly for many months, POD Go is shipping with a much smaller DC-3h now, but it hasn't officially been approved for inclusion in HX Effects or HX Stomp boxes yet. (Spoiler alert: It works great, but it's still bigger than I wish it was.)

The reason we had to go with that power supply is that it's the only one that resulted in the same sonic specs as Helix. Cheap, tiny power supplies often increase the noise floor and can introduce other audible garbage. Also, YGG's a hardcore stickler for following international compliance. Your average small pedal manufacturer may not have the budget to ensure their power supplies pass international requirements that seem to change every year.

Interesting aside: The Strymon Zuma and Ojai are the only power supplies we've tried that result in the same audio specs as our DC-3g and DC-3h. Others might as well—we haven't tried more than a handful—but Strymon makes killer power distribution.


----------



## lewis

Digital Igloo said:


> A) IEC is huge and would blow up the footprint. B) Then you wouldn't be able to power it from your pedalboard power supply.No one hates that DC-3g power supply more than I do. After I complained loudly for many months, POD Go is shipping with a much smaller DC-3h now, but it hasn't officially been approved for inclusion in HX Effects or HX Stomp boxes yet. (Spoiler alert: It works great, but it's still bigger than I wish it was.)
> 
> The reason we had to go with that power supply is that it's the only one that resulted in the same sonic specs as Helix. Cheap, tiny power supplies often increase the noise floor and can introduce other audible garbage. Also, YGG's a hardcore stickler for following international compliance. Your average small pedal manufacturer may not have the budget to ensure their power supplies pass international requirements that seem to change every year.
> 
> Interesting aside: The Strymon Zuma and Ojai are the only power supplies we've tried that result in the same audio specs as our DC-3g and DC-3h. Others might as well—we haven't tried more than a handful—but Strymon makes killer power distribution.



Are those DC-3Hs going to be available to buy separately at some point? (if not already?). 

Im going to probably grab the Strymon Zuma instead long term and move my T Rex over to my Bass pedalboard build instead.
Thats only going to be 4 pedals and all of them are 9volt so much easier. 

So how does the Zuma work with HX? a cable doubler or something? 2 into 1 or something?


----------



## Digital Igloo

lewis said:


> Are those DC-3Hs going to be available to buy separately at some point? (if not already?).


Hopefully, but I don't have a timeline. The DC-3h is schedule 6, so we'll have to replace the DC-3g in 2022 (2023? I forget) when schedule 6 compliance goes live anyway.


> So how does the Zuma work with HX? a cable doubler or something? 2 into 1 or something?


Yep, and you'll need adapters to make sure it fits HX Stomp's slightly larger DC pin.


----------



## CTID

Finally updated the firmware on my helix for the first time since I got...in early 2018.

New archon model is sick, did a quick crappy little demo: https://soundcloud.com/gurtschwurtz/helix-archon-demo


----------



## vilk

Hey sorry it might be better to ask in FAQ but I figure why not try the experts, wondering if someone can tell me:

Is it possible to use an HX Stomp to practice with headphones on and have an aux in to play along with music (from my phone)?


----------



## Backsnack

vilk said:


> Hey sorry it might be better to ask in FAQ but I figure why not try the experts, wondering if someone can tell me:
> 
> Is it possible to use an HX Stomp to practice with headphones on and have an aux in to play along with music (from my phone)?


I'm guessing you could use one of the effects loops and set it to line level. The unfortunate thing is that will take up one of your blocks to have it running.

Maybe someone else has a better idea, but that's the only way I'm aware of to do that. The big Helix is the only one in the lineup that has the dedicated Aux input.


----------



## vilk

Backsnack said:


> I'm guessing you could use one of the effects loops and set it to line level. The unfortunate thing is that will take up one of your blocks to have it running.
> 
> Maybe someone else has a better idea, but that's the only way I'm aware of to do that. The big Helix is the only one in the lineup that has the dedicated Aux input.



If that is the case, then would there be issues switching between snapshots/scrolls mode/presets mode? Provided that the FX loop is a block on any of the settings being switched between. Or would this maybe limit the unit to stompbox mode for playalong purposes.


edit: Nevermind! From the online owner's manual: the L/MONO and RIGHT inputs can act as an always-on Aux In for monitoring mixers, keyboards, drum machines or MP3 players. To set the function of the Return L/R jacks, see "Global Settings > Ins/Outs

So I assume "always on" means it doesn't matter how you stomp around, you'll still hear the aux in. I wonder if that means it would not then take up any blocks, since it's being set in the global settings?


----------



## Digital Igloo

vilk said:


> So I assume "always on" means it doesn't matter how you stomp around, you'll still hear the aux in. I wonder if that means it would not then take up any blocks, since it's being set in the global settings?


Correct. When the Return L/R ins are set to Aux In, they're blended in with the guitar signal after the Output block.


----------



## Boofchuck

Hi everyone, I could use some help configuring my Stomp to run in 4CM with my 5150iii 50w. 

I have everything running in 4Cm just fine, but I would like to add an IR Block to send to FOH (and the headphone out if possible) on a split path. I currently have the 5150 effects loop hooked up to the Left effects loop of the Stomp. But I seem to be unable to create a separate path for the IR block. 

The IR ends up either being audible in the 5150 loop before it hit's the real cab, or it's just not audible at all. 

I would greatly appreciate some help and could even get on a zoom session with someone haha. 

Hopefully this question makes sense. Thanks.


----------



## Boofchuck

I figured it out! I had to plug my guitar straight into the front of the amp. I originally had the stereo send from the Stomp going into the front of the amp. Now the stereo send contains the split path IR block for FOH.

One day I'll gig and on that day I'll be ready haha.


----------



## DropTheSun

This HX Stomp Pedalboard was my summer project and after few band rehearsals I have to say it is amazing!







In rehearsals I use three presets. With JET Micro I can control FX Blocks and Snapshots inside the presets ”on the fly”. 

For Clean tones I use Specular Reverb to get those Big ”strymon Like” ambient vibes and Ricochet offers those nice Whammy sounds, that everyones familiar.

Fractal EV2 is working as a Volume Pedal. I might connect it to HX Stomp EXP input in some point if I see it useful.

Then there is a little box for my earplugs and a pick holder.


----------



## Matt08642

Been considering an HX Stomp or Helix LT lately, though I'm a bit hesitant since it's 3 or 4 year old hardware. Anything new on the horizon?


----------



## lewis

DropTheSun said:


> This HX Stomp Pedalboard was my summer project and after few band rehearsals I have to say it is amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In rehearsals I use three presets. With JET Micro I can control FX Blocks and Snapshots inside the presets ”on the fly”.
> 
> For Clean tones I use Specular Reverb to get those Big ”strymon Like” ambient vibes and Ricochet offers those nice Whammy sounds, that everyones familiar.
> 
> Fractal EV2 is working as a Volume Pedal. I might connect it to HX Stomp EXP input in some point if I see it useful.
> 
> Then there is a little box for my earplugs and a pick holder.


This board is super neat!

Going to steal the pick holder/tin idea for mine haha


----------



## nickgray

Matt08642 said:


> Been considering an HX Stomp or Helix LT lately, though I'm a bit hesitant since it's 3 or 4 year old hardware



I got an LT a few months ago and I'm honestly pretty happy with it. A bit overkill size wise, but Stomp is a tad limiting with its DSP and blocks, and I like to run 2 IRs in stereo. The pedal is a bit iffy, but I don't really use it, plus I didn't really tweak it too much anyway, I reckon with some fine tuning and maybe some extra grease it'll be fine. The sound, the feel, and the capabilities are great, no major complaints, just some nitpicks here and there.



Matt08642 said:


> Anything new on the horizon?



3.0 update should be out around winter, afaik. Stomp should get 2 extra blocks too, up to 8 instead of the current 6. Overall, it's still updated and it's still relevant. Even if they roll out Helix 2 in the near future, I highly doubt they'll replace the entire line in one go, likely they'll only release the flagship first.


----------



## Matt08642

nickgray said:


> I got an LT a few months ago and I'm honestly pretty happy with it. A bit overkill size wise, but Stomp is a tad limiting with its DSP and blocks, and I like to run 2 IRs in stereo. The pedal is a bit iffy, but I don't really use it, plus I didn't really tweak it too much anyway, I reckon with some fine tuning and maybe some extra grease it'll be fine. The sound, the feel, and the capabilities are great, no major complaints, just some nitpicks here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> 3.0 update should be out around winter, afaik. Stomp should get 2 extra blocks too, up to 8 instead of the current 6. Overall, it's still updated and it's still relevant. Even if they roll out Helix 2 in the near future, I highly doubt they'll replace the entire line in one go, likely they'll only release the flagship first.




The DSP and block limitations were a huge factor in my consideration here. That and the fact that I do kind of want an expression pedal, so even if I got the stomp I’d be looking at buying a separate $200 unit for wah and stuff

to replace my current pedal board six blocks is more than enough, but I figure with a unit like this I would probably end up wanting to experiment with more amps and affects at once


----------



## DropTheSun

lewis said:


> ...Going to steal the pick holder/tin idea for mine haha



Hahaha! Awesome man! 

I love this pedalboard. It is as Plug’n’Play/Grab’n’Go as it can be. Super fast and easy to take anywhere I go and hook it up for playing.


----------



## Iron1

Asked this question elsewhere and was referred here to see if anyone had any tips/insights. With my Stomp, if I use the Panama sim, it's noticeably quieter than my other amp sims. I primarily use the Soldano and Ubers, but IRL prefer the 5150/6505. The only way I can seem to get the Panama to output as hot as the others is to boost just about everywhere I can which brings the unwanted joy of higher noise floor. I noticed the same issue with the 2204 but didn't bother taking any real time to raise the volume on that one. Don't have that issue with the Calis. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## sleewell

Iron1 said:


> Asked this question elsewhere and was referred here to see if anyone had any tips/insights. With my Stomp, if I use the Panama sim, it's noticeably quieter than my other amp sims. I primarily use the Soldano and Ubers, but IRL prefer the 5150/6505. The only way I can seem to get the Panama to output as hot as the others is to boost just about everywhere I can which brings the unwanted joy of higher noise floor. I noticed the same issue with the 2204 but didn't bother taking any real time to raise the volume on that one. Don't have that issue with the Calis. What am I doing wrong?



You could just throw an eq after the amp and set the output level higher. I always use one to dial back frequencies in the 3 - 5k range.


----------



## budda

Matt08642 said:


> The DSP and block limitations were a huge factor in my consideration here. That and the fact that I do kind of want an expression pedal, so even if I got the stomp I’d be looking at buying a separate $200 unit for wah and stuff
> 
> to replace my current pedal board six blocks is more than enough, but I figure with a unit like this I would probably end up wanting to experiment with more amps and affects at once



Why spend $200 when the Roland EV-5 is like $40usd


----------



## op1e

I can't wait till the 8 bock update. I been playing my stomp into the return of my head and Mesa OS. I notice when I get away from it there's some high end I'm not liking. Where do you roll yours off in global eq? Right now I'm at 11.6k I think.


----------



## Matt08642

budda said:


> Why spend $200 when the Roland EV-5 is like $40usd



Oh shit lmao, I didn't realize this pedal worked with it and was looking at this https://www.long-mcquade.com/69938/...neering/Expression_Pedal_for_Line_6_Helix.htm


----------



## Rev2010

Matt08642 said:


> Oh shit lmao, I didn't realize this pedal worked with it and was looking at this https://www.long-mcquade.com/69938/...neering/Expression_Pedal_for_Line_6_Helix.htm



They're always recommending that Mission Engineering pedal, but people seem to be very very happy with them. Thet Roland EV-5 seems to be essentially the same base pedal as the Line 6 Expression Pedal which I have: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EX1--line-6-ex-1-expression-pedal

I bought mine used at GC in great condition for $28. Let me warn you, it's all plastic and so is the Roland. That said, it does the job. I would not trust it for touring at all but for local shows I think it would work fine and start showing wear issues before complete failure. One thing about it though, is it's not perfectly smooth from 0-100. Mine also seems to be at zero about a quarter-3rd inch from fully cocked back. I'd prefer zero to be full heel position and any pressure to start increasing parameter. All that said, for $28 I can't complain. Just letting you know it's not at all pro gear and if you were to tour you're taking a chance. If you're a bedroom or local show only dude then go for it and save some money if money is a concern.


Rev.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Rev2010 said:


> They're always recommending that Mission Engineering pedal, but people seem to be very very happy with them. Thet Roland EV-5 seems to be essentially the same base pedal as the Line 6 Expression Pedal which I have: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EX1--line-6-ex-1-expression-pedal
> 
> I bought mine used at GC in great condition for $28. Let me warn you, it's all plastic and so is the Roland. That said, it does the job. I would not trust it for touring at all but for local shows I think it would work fine and start showing wear issues before complete failure. One thing about it though, is it's not perfectly smooth from 0-100. Mine also seems to be at zero about a quarter-3rd inch from fully cocked back. I'd prefer zero to be full heel position and any pressure to start increasing parameter. All that said, for $28 I can't complain. Just letting you know it's not at all pro gear and if you were to tour you're taking a chance. If you're a bedroom or local show only dude then go for it and save some money if money is a concern.
> 
> 
> Rev.



If you run into an expression pedal that's hitting "zero" too soon or too late (not hitting "zero") check to see if the pot can be adjusted. Most expression pedals are just a fancy way to turn a pot, using either a belt/string or arm/cam, and if the pot isn't situated properly its sweep won't match the relative position of the pedal. The pot is usually just mounted on its side against a bracket, you should be able to adjust it forward or back.


----------



## budda

I toured my EV-5


----------



## Vyn

While we are in the process of posting mini-rigs, still in the process of wiring this up. Still blown away by how tiny it is!


----------



## broangiel

Vyn said:


> While we are in the process of posting mini-rigs, still in the process of wiring this up. Still blown away by how tiny it is!
> View attachment 83365


I’m considering something similar to run into a Mesa Widebody 1x12. I have a quilter interblock on the way, and I’m trying to decide between an HX Stomp or a preamp-type pedal (Friedman BE or AMT Legend). 

how do you like this setup?


----------



## Rev2010

budda said:


> I toured my EV-5



Wasn't saying it's not possible. Just that I personally wouldn't "trust" it for touring. 


Rev.


----------



## budda

Rev2010 said:


> Wasn't saying it's not possible. Just that I personally wouldn't "trust" it for touring.
> 
> 
> Rev.



And I'm a 230lb dude who's not super precise who's saying it holds up . Trust it. It's also very easy to replace.


----------



## Matt08642

You guys aren't helping by pointing out how inexpensive this can all be 

Gotta keep telling myself the amp models on my POD X3 are fine and that I don't need more gear...


----------



## Vyn

Matt08642 said:


> You guys aren't helping by pointing out how inexpensive this can all be
> 
> Gotta keep telling myself the amp models on my POD X3 are fine and that I don't need more gear...



I used a second hand HD500 for ages and they slay. Also so cheap now since the Helix is out. I've only gone this route for the form factor.


----------



## Matt08642

Vyn said:


> I used a second hand HD500 for ages and they slay. Also so cheap now since the Helix is out. I've only gone this route for the form factor.



Oh no I meant everyone's making it easier for me to justify buying something lmao


----------



## Iron1

Matt08642 said:


> You guys aren't helping by pointing out how inexpensive this can all be
> 
> Gotta keep telling myself the amp models on my POD X3 are fine and that I don't need more gear...



The Pod X3 really comes alive when you take it out of the signal chain and insert a Helix.


----------



## Matt08642

Iron1 said:


> The Pod X3 really comes alive when you take it out of the signal chain and insert a Helix.



The truest bypass

That being said I love my x3, but I mostly just use it as a headphone 5150


----------



## Iron1

Iron1 said:


> Asked this question elsewhere and was referred here to see if anyone had any tips/insights. With my Stomp, if I use the Panama sim, it's noticeably quieter than my other amp sims. I primarily use the Soldano and Ubers, but IRL prefer the 5150/6505. The only way I can seem to get the Panama to output as hot as the others is to boost just about everywhere I can which brings the unwanted joy of higher noise floor. I noticed the same issue with the 2204 but didn't bother taking any real time to raise the volume on that one. Don't have that issue with the Calis. What am I doing wrong?



Just quoting to ask once more, in case anyone who knows the answer missed the question the first time around. TIA


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> Just quoting to ask once more, in case anyone who knows the answer missed the question the first time around. TIA



Pretty weird. What's the signal chain? Did you try making a new preset, and throwing only the 5150 and an IR block, and then changing the 5150 to some other high gain amp?

In general, Ch Vol controls the final output from the amp block. Master controls the master volume of the amp, which will control both the tone of amp AND the volume (just like on a real amp). Bias will also have an effect on the volume, and so will the Gain. You probably know all that, but just in case, since your problem seems to be a bit weird.

Also, are you sure you're using the amp? Amp models and Preamp models have a drastic difference in volume.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> Pretty weird. What's the signal chain? Did you try making a new preset, and throwing only the 5150 and an IR block, and then changing the 5150 to some other high gain amp?
> 
> In general, Ch Vol controls the final output from the amp block. Master controls the master volume of the amp, which will control both the tone of amp AND the volume (just like on a real amp). Bias will also have an effect on the volume, and so will the Gain. You probably know all that, but just in case, since your problem seems to be a bit weird.
> 
> Also, are you sure you're using the amp? Amp models and Preamp models have a drastic difference in volume.



Thanks for the reply, it's definitely a weird issue.

I first discovered the problem the day I got the unit (and I've now updated firmware 2-3 times) and was building new presets from scratch. I have 4 guitars, 1 bass and built custom presets for all of them. Over the time I've owned the Stomp, I've swapped pickups in several guitars and each time I'll build a new preset. Through all that I've tossed the Panama in existing presets and tried building from scratch with it multiple times and always have the same result ("Hey, maybe it'll work with my Trident II since it didn't with the Black Winter..." sort of thing). At one point I even wondered if it was a perceived volume issue, but there's clearly less amplitude in my DAW when I swap the Panama in place of a Solo or Uber as evidenced by the visual track response. 

As for your last question, I don't think I've ever used just the preamp option. Signal chain: I'm usually running Gate>Dist/OD>Amp>Cab... and, on some EQ & Delay or Reverb, but not often.


----------



## nickgray

@Iron1 Not too sure what to recommend. I've checked on my Helix LT 2.92, just Amp -> IR, and throwing in several high gain amps, including the 5150, all of them have more or less the same default volume level. Here's what the default settings are for my unit, in case that helps somehow:


----------



## Iron1

@nickgray - thanks for that - it looks identical to mine. In order to get it at the same base volume as the others I have to push the channel volume and master almost to 10, then boost with the dist & main output...


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> @nickgray - thanks for that - it looks identical to mine. In order to get it at the same base volume as the others I have to push the channel volume and master almost to 10, then boost with the dist & main output...



That's just super weird. You should probably try posting on the Line6 forums or contact their support, afaik their support is supposed to be pretty decent. Sounds like a weird bug.


----------



## Iron1

Yeah, I may go that route. Still feel like it's operator error of some sort, but for the life of me can't figure out how I'm screwing it up.


----------



## Steo

Have you tried putting an eq block between the amp and cab blocks? use that as volume boost.


----------



## Iron1

I've used the EQ as a boost, but not directly in between the amp & cab.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> @Iron1 Not too sure what to recommend. I've checked on my Helix LT 2.92, just Amp -> IR, and throwing in several high gain amps, including the 5150, all of them have more or less the same default volume level. Here's what the default settings are for my unit, in case that helps somehow:
> 
> View attachment 83658


I noticed you were at v2.92 and I was still on 2.91, so I updated yesterday and now it seems to be fixed - so weird. That's at least the 3rd Firmware update I've done, if not the 4th, and none helped before. Either way, glad it's useable finally. Now to figure out how best to set the ripple, hum, bias x, etc... thanks for your help!


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> I noticed you were at v2.92 and I was still on 2.91, so I updated yesterday and now it seems to be fixed - so weird. That's at least the 3rd Firmware update I've done, if not the 4th, and none helped before. Either way, glad it's useable finally. Now to figure out how best to set the ripple, hum, bias x, etc... thanks for your help!



Nice!

Ripple and hum are completely useless, unless you're looking to recreate some very specific weird ass tone from a 60s album or something. Bias X works in conjunction with Bias and Master, sound wise it seems to control how strong the power amp smashes shit. But you have to crank the power amp (i.e., the Master control) first, otherwise it's not in the overdrive and Bias X will do nothing.

Overall, I highly recommend to play around with the Master control most of all, it has a super dramatic effect on the sound, but trouble is, it also affects the volume. Try this - make a simple preset, and set the Master control and the volume to be changed on a snapshot change (I recommend changing the IR block volume instead of the Ch Vol of the amp block). Then set Master to 10, and adjust the volume so that it doesn't kill you. And then, for the next snapshot, set Master to 9, and match the volume level to the first snapshot, etc..

Iirc, Stomp only has 5 snapshots, so you'd need 2 presets in order to run through the full range of Master in increments of 1.

After you're done, try doing a similar thing with Bias, it also changes the tone, but typically in a more subtle way. The problem here is that in works in conjunction with Master and Bias X, so there are a lot of possibilities.

In general, the whole power amp cranking is about bringing out the mids and taming the highs, while also introducing compression. Works differently for every amp, and it takes a while to get your hand around it, but overall I'd use it as a tool to "beef up" the sound and control the tone as if it was something like an EQ. If the amp sounds a tad thin and the EQ doesn't help - try cranking the Master and tinker with the Bias and Bias X, there's usually a sweet spot where the sound gets beefed up a tad, but you don't go overboard.

Oh, and another recommendation - for IRs, I highly recommend finding two very similar sounding IRs, and putting the two in parallel, panning them left and right. If the IRs don't sound similar, you'll just get a weird effect where the left channel is pretty different from the right channel, but if they are very close tonally (but no quite), it makes for a very natural "in the room" stereo effect. It's way better than any kind of stereo widener or that short delay trick. Make sure to put a subtle stereo reverb as the final block.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> Nice!
> 
> Ripple and hum are completely useless, unless you're looking to recreate some very specific weird ass tone from a 60s album or something. Bias X works in conjunction with Bias and Master, sound wise it seems to control how strong the power amp smashes shit. But you have to crank the power amp (i.e., the Master control) first, otherwise it's not in the overdrive and Bias X will do nothing.
> 
> Overall, I highly recommend to play around with the Master control most of all, it has a super dramatic effect on the sound, but trouble is, it also affects the volume. Try this - make a simple preset, and set the Master control and the volume to be changed on a snapshot change (I recommend changing the IR block volume instead of the Ch Vol of the amp block). Then set Master to 10, and adjust the volume so that it doesn't kill you. And then, for the next snapshot, set Master to 9, and match the volume level to the first snapshot, etc..
> 
> Iirc, Stomp only has 5 snapshots, so you'd need 2 presets in order to run through the full range of Master in increments of 1.
> 
> After you're done, try doing a similar thing with Bias, it also changes the tone, but typically in a more subtle way. The problem here is that in works in conjunction with Master and Bias X, so there are a lot of possibilities.
> 
> In general, the whole power amp cranking is about bringing out the mids and taming the highs, while also introducing compression. Works differently for every amp, and it takes a while to get your hand around it, but overall I'd use it as a tool to "beef up" the sound and control the tone as if it was something like an EQ. If the amp sounds a tad thin and the EQ doesn't help - try cranking the Master and tinker with the Bias and Bias X, there's usually a sweet spot where the sound gets beefed up a tad, but you don't go overboard.
> 
> Oh, and another recommendation - for IRs, I highly recommend finding two very similar sounding IRs, and putting the two in parallel, panning them left and right. If the IRs don't sound similar, you'll just get a weird effect where the left channel is pretty different from the right channel, but if they are very close tonally (but no quite), it makes for a very natural "in the room" stereo effect. It's way better than any kind of stereo widener or that short delay trick. Make sure to put a subtle stereo reverb as the final block.



Ok, I'll try that out - thanks. Any recs for where to get better cab IRs?


----------



## nickgray

Iron1 said:


> Ok, I'll try that out - thanks. Any recs for where to get better cab IRs?



Ownhammer, ML Sound, York Audio. Personally I like Ownhammer's 4x12 Recto. Ownhammer has tons of different IRs to mix and match, but for some the sheer amount can be confusing. The other two have less options.


----------



## Iron1

nickgray said:


> Ownhammer, ML Sound, York Audio. Personally I like Ownhammer's 4x12 Recto. Ownhammer has tons of different IRs to mix and match, but for some the sheer amount can be confusing. The other two have less options.




Thanks, I'm gonna have to get that Mesa 412 set.


----------



## Metropolis

Iron1 said:


> Thanks, I'm gonna have to get that Mesa 412 set.



If you're into Mesa and want more aggressive sounds check out Bogren Digital. Here's a video of them through Helix, sounds completely different than for example Ownhammer which is too tame sounding in my opinion. Whole pack has 27 impulses instead of hundreds or thousands which many others have.


----------



## sleewell

https://www.guitarplayer.com/news/steve-howe-why-i-ditched-my-pedals-for-the-line-6-helix


----------



## Schivosa

Metropolis said:


> If you're into Mesa and want more aggressive sounds check out Bogren Digital. Here's a video of them through Helix, sounds completely different than for example Ownhammer which is too tame sounding in my opinion. Whole pack has 27 impulses instead of hundreds or thousands which many others have.



Do you know what the actual cabs are? I haven't seen it listed anywhere.


----------



## Metropolis

Schivosa said:


> Do you know what the actual cabs are? I haven't seen it listed anywhere.



Jens himself said that they're mostly Mesa Boogie 4x12 cabs, probably Oversized. V30 most likely but there could be something else too. He also said that they're doing an update for the cab pack with info sheet of cabs and mics used. It should be updated in september, and ir's for lead tones are coming too.


----------



## Iron1

I was able to download Ola Englund's oversized Mesa 412 IR and it sounds incredible. Way thicker, deeper and more present than any of the stock cabs.


----------



## sirbuh

IRs make a big difference (across all of the modelers).


----------



## lewis

Iron1 said:


> I was able to download Ola Englund's oversized Mesa 412 IR and it sounds incredible. Way thicker, deeper and more present than any of the stock cabs.


oh sweet!
is that available somewhere?
or did you have to pay for it?


----------



## Iron1

lewis said:


> oh sweet!
> is that available somewhere?
> or did you have to pay for it?



It's available to members of his Youtube channel. So, for the price of one of the packs listed upstream, you get access to all of Ola's IRs plus other stuff for 6 months (it's $5/month).


----------



## sleewell

How do you all setup a patch for live use? I've been changing mine around over the last year in this band and after our last show here is what I've ended up with. Using a Fuchs Viper in 4cm.

4 snapshots across the bottom row for gain flavors - fuchs clean channel, matchstick ch2 for crunch, fuchs gain channel, line 6 doom.

Effects: ts9, fuzz face, chorus, phaser, trem, ping pong, digital delay, particle verb.

I also use the la studio comp that comes on for the amp sims. Noise gate that comes on for the high gain stuff. And an eq after the amp that is always on.

On the top row the 4 buttons control the boost, fuzz and then 3rd controls the chorus, trem, delay and reverb together and the 4th controls the phaser and ping pong. Gives me two different ambient sounds.

Works great for our stuff but I'm sure it will keep evolving. I like having the 4 gain options.


----------



## Avedas

I use separate patches for dirty rhythm, lead, and clean, and separate versions with a pitch shifter if necessary since carrying 2 guitars to a gig just isn't an option. Then I use 4 snapshots on the bottom row to switch between gain levels and delay or some other FX if necessary. I mostly don't use FX beyond delay/reverb so there's no pedal DDR going on. No 4cm or anything since I never know what amp will be available at the venue.

Simple and failproof.


----------



## vilk

Just got a Pod Go and been experimenting with some stuff. Anyone else move the "mic" as far back as possible and turn up the early reflection? I play with headphones a lot and I noticed that this makes it sound more like an "amp in the room" (comparatively, at least). People who complain that modelers sound like a recording and not like a real amp, or if you can't get on with the way it sounds through headphones, I recommend giving this a try. Don't turn up the early reflection _too_ high though or it will start getting a little weird.


----------



## Spinedriver

nickgray said:


> Ownhammer, ML Sound, York Audio. Personally I like Ownhammer's 4x12 Recto. Ownhammer has tons of different IRs to mix and match, but for some the sheer amount can be confusing. The other two have less options.



Actually, the 'new' Ownhammer irs the "(r)Evolutiuon" packs are pretty good and very streamlined so you don't have to sift through dozens of mics and even more placement options.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

vilk said:


> Just got a Pod Go and been experimenting with some stuff. Anyone else move the "mic" as far back as possible and turn up the early reflection? I play with headphones a lot and I noticed that this makes it sound more like an "amp in the room" (comparatively, at least). People who complain that modelers sound like a recording and not like a real amp, or if you can't get on with the way it sounds through headphones, I recommend giving this a try. Don't turn up the early reflection _too_ high though or it will start getting a little weird.


I like the tile reverb with a very short Decay. It feels like there's an amp to my side when im wearing headphones


----------



## lewis

@Digital Igloo 

Dude!, is it possible to request Line 6 to start making pedalboard power supplies?
Really need a power brick that powers the official line 6 products (HX Efx etc) but also has regular 9v and 12v power.

Would buy one right now if it existed.


----------



## sleewell

3.1 came out yesterday. Looks pretty sweet. ROCKERVERB!!!!!


----------



## thebeesknees22

3.1 is awesome!

I've only played it with Native and on not my floor unit, but things do sound better. More defined/clear/tighter. (or it's just a placebo and in my head lol) ... The badonk model seems to have changed though quite a bit. The recto seems much improved too, but again....might be in my head lol i haven't done any a/b comparisons

I really like the rockerverb model a lot.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man im really gonna have to replace my POD Go with a Stomp huh


----------



## Vegetta

They really nailed the Rockerverb it sounds awesome. I have not messed with the new reverbs yet. 

I ended up saying F it and nuking all of the presets when I updated then i copied over the handful of the ones i actually use and now there is so much room for activities 

its nice that we can swap button colors now. I could not get the rename function to work it just kept resetting back to the default name unless the switch controlled more than one thing and then i could pick one of the items for the name... 

I wish you could set all global settings with hx edit as its a bit fiddly setting those on the device,


----------



## Vegetta

thebeesknees22 said:


> 3.1 is awesome!
> 
> I've only played it with Native and on not my floor unit, but things do sound better. More defined/clear/tighter. (or it's just a placebo and in my head lol) ... The badonk model seems to have changed though quite a bit. The recto seems much improved too, but again....might be in my head lol i haven't done any a/b comparisons
> 
> I really like the rockerverb model a lot.



oh i will need to check out the other amp models.


----------



## budda

Which rockerverb mk version ya got?

Er'body getting fw updates


----------



## sleewell

mkIII dirty channel

i had rehearsal last night but plan to update mine tonight. sounds like some of the new reverbs are sweet too. line 6 is on top of their game. love the recent updates.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

I have updated to 3.10 as well, the patch notes did say something about increasing oversampling and that it would benefit the high gain sounds especially. Yesterday I too found that it might sound better now, but afraid to say anything incase it was just in my head. @thebeesknees22 I agree. Fuck I'm really hyped now!!!


----------



## thebeesknees22

@AwakenTheSkies - right? I've had too many updates over the years where I thought things were better and people were like "nothing changed" lol, but things do indeed sound better with the increased oversampling. I gave it another whirl this morning with fresh ears after I posted this morning, and it is better for sure all across the board.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

.


----------



## budda

Record a DI, reamp through the old fw and the new fw.


----------



## Ericjutsu

budda said:


> Record a DI, reamp through the old fw and the new fw.


someone needs to do this!


----------



## Avedas

Sounds like I need to fire up my Helix again while I'm waiting on Cygnus for the FM3.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

Well, I have made a sound test, not exactly as @budda asks but pretty much the same, recently I reamped a song with Native 3.0. Now I reamped it again but with Native 3.10 , also for the funs I also reamped it through the real Helix LT 3.10. I don't want to downgrade my Helix LT. Hear for yourself.

The patch:












The clip: it's Native 3.0 then Native 3.10 then Helix LT 3.10

https://soundcloud.com/vlad_kuzmenko_37/helixtest/s-mRcicOIHFIq

See if you can hear some differences!


----------



## thebeesknees22

dang! link isn't working for me


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

Sorry, fixed the link.


----------



## thebeesknees22

lol i can't hear the difference haha


----------



## Avedas

I honestly can't hear a difference lol


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

In my opinion the Helix LT sounds smoother, but you can hear that it might be a gain thing, it shows at the palm mutes especially. Native 3.0 vs 3.10 they are super close, I can't confidently say that I hear a difference.

Here's the audio spectrum for all 3

3.0 Native






3.10 Native






3.10 LT






Also I invite you to post you own clips or tests, maybe I'm not 100% right. @thebeesknees22 did mention about the Recto and the Bandonk feeling different, and I haven't tried those yet myself...


----------



## Avedas

The difference with the LT is so subtle I almost want to suspect your cable. I don't doubt that the amps may feel a lot better on the new firmware though.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

Avedas said:


> The difference with the LT is so subtle I almost want to suspect your cable. I don't doubt that the amps may feel a lot better on the new firmware though.



Cable? The USB cable?? Should that make a difference?


----------



## thebeesknees22

@AwakenTheSkies -yeah i use the badonk almost daily and on first glance at firing it up it felt different. But who knows. I'm also overworked right now with heavy overtime at work so my ears could be playing tricks on me. 

At least there is a subtle difference in your eq curves so I know at least that much isn't ALLL in my head haha

some other folks in other forums said they did a null test and had a slight difference, but i couldn't find a link to the test they were talking about.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

thebeesknees22 said:


> At least there is a subtle difference in your eq curves so I know at least that much isn't ALLL in my head haha



Yep, especially after 10kHz.


----------



## Ericjutsu

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Well, I have made a sound test, not exactly as @budda asks but pretty much the same, recently I reamped a song with Native 3.0. Now I reamped it again but with Native 3.10 , also for the funs I also reamped it through the real Helix LT 3.10. I don't want to downgrade my Helix LT. Hear for yourself.
> 
> The patch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The clip: it's Native 3.0 then Native 3.10 then Helix LT 3.10
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/vlad_kuzmenko_37/helixtest/s-mRcicOIHFIq
> 
> See if you can hear some differences!


awesome thanks for this! The newer version sounds smoother and less scratchy. The upper mids and highs sound better to my ears.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm a bit late to the party but apparently the POD Go 1.21 update was released last month?  They added a bit of the new stuff from the last HX patch. Finally got a chance to try the new Diezel models, and honestly the VH4 Lead with the SD-1 model sounds killer.

TBH It sounds better than the Fractal (Axe II/AX8 era) VH4 to me.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

Okay now I'm really curious so I did a new test LT 3.0 vs LT 3.1










LT 3.0 then LT 3.1

https://soundcloud.com/vlad_kuzmenko_37/helixtest2/s-ce7IIU6fKmd

LT 3.0






LT 3.1






The audio spectrum is a bit different, but I can't hear very much of a difference. The difference between Helix Native vs LT in the previous test was a lot easier to hear.


----------



## Metropolis

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Okay now I'm really curious so I did a new test LT 3.0 vs LT 3.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LT 3.0 then LT 3.1
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/vlad_kuzmenko_37/helixtest2/s-ce7IIU6fKmd
> 
> LT 3.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LT 3.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The audio spectrum is a bit different, but I can't hear very much of a difference. The difference between Helix Native vs LT in the previous test was a lot easier to hear.



3.10 is less ripply in highs and has more low end. I have Helix LT and made kind of similar observations.


----------



## bigcupholder

AwakenTheSkies said:


> In my opinion the Helix LT sounds smoother, but you can hear that it might be a gain thing, it shows at the palm mutes especially. Native 3.0 vs 3.10 they are super close, I can't confidently say that I hear a difference.
> 
> Here's the audio spectrum for all 3
> 
> 3.0 Native
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.10 Native
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.10 LT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I invite you to post you own clips or tests, maybe I'm not 100% right. @thebeesknees22 did mention about the Recto and the Bandonk feeling different, and I haven't tried those yet myself...



I haven't played with the update enough to say if it's really audibly different, but I'm not sure it'd be visibly different in the power spectrum. It might be clearer if you played a single note, because then you'd have a better chance to see the inharmonic peaks from aliasing.

In any case, comparing power spectrums visually isn't a great measure of the difference. I'd trust your ears over a plot.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

bigcupholder said:


> I haven't played with the update enough to say if it's really audibly different, but I'm not sure it'd be visibly different in the power spectrum. It might be clearer if you played a single note, because then you'd have a better chance to see the inharmonic peaks from aliasing.
> 
> In any case, comparing power spectrums visually isn't a great measure of the difference. I'd trust your ears over a plot.



Yeah man, these tests are idk...a bit sketchy, I'm not so confident about them, that's why I invite everyone to do their own. But I can't delete the posts anymore. Also keep in mind these are song tones, meant to be double tracked and mixed, not for play on their own. For what it's worth I do think 3.10 feels a bit smoother to play, and it seems like many other people feel the same, so there you go.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So any more opinions on the Rockerverb? Hows it compare to other models in terms of thiccness and/or tightness? Checking demos, it oddly seems really great at that AC/DC-ish breakup tone.


----------



## bigcupholder

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So any more opinions on the Rockerverb? Hows it compare to other models in terms of thiccness and/or tightness? Checking demos, it oddly seems really great at that AC/DC-ish breakup tone.


I haven't had a ton of time to dial it in, but it's easy to get a good mid gain crunch tone. Pushing the gain too high gets fuzzy and loose - it probably won't replace the 5150 as my go-to for metal. 

It does sound a lot better than the Dark Terror I had, but not as good as my Tiny Terror. I haven't played a real rockerverb though.


----------



## budda

Throw a treble booster at an orange and enjoy.


----------



## nickgray

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So any more opinions on the Rockerverb?



It's more suitable for rock, though it does high gain pretty decently. Still, not my first choice by any stretch. It's pretty loose and fizzy, Marshall style distortion character.

I've recently discovered Fireball 100 though. Fucking amazing amp. But it must be used without a boost, and this model made me realize that boosts kind of suck. They shave off tons of low end, and they all have that mid/hi mid spike, and as a result they seriously homogenize the tone. A lot of the character and the beefiness of the amp come from those lows. A good idea is to try a gentle EQ and tame those lows in such a way that you don't completely cut them like an 808 does, thus preserving a major part of the amp's tone, but taming the muddiness if it was even needed in the first place.


----------



## thebeesknees22

I'm reaaallly liking the rockerverb a lot. It blends really great with most any kind of amp depending on where set the gain. It can do crunchy cleans. full crunch, metal, full doom fuzz. 

If you put an eq down with a low cut of around 172Hz and it'll tighten it up real nice too. Or low cut around 172Hz then throw any overdrive or fuzz + rockerverb and that sounds real nice. (you don't need to do that cut though with the tube screamer or horizon drive)

(i am one that prefers loose gain vs the super tight modern djent gain though)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

budda said:


> Throw a treble booster at an orange and enjoy.



Wanna hear how the SD-1 pairs wiith it when it's available for the POD Go (or get the Stomp like I keep saying I will  ). Or see how my Maxon OD808X sounds when in front of it. 



nickgray said:


> It's more suitable for rock, though it does high gain pretty decently. Still, not my first choice by any stretch. It's pretty loose and fizzy, Marshall style distortion character.
> 
> I've recently discovered Fireball 100 though. Fucking amazing amp. But it must be used without a boost, and this model made me realize that boosts kind of suck. They shave off tons of low end, and they all have that mid/hi mid spike, and as a result they seriously homogenize the tone. A lot of the character and the beefiness of the amp come from those lows. A good idea is to try a gentle EQ and tame those lows in such a way that you don't completely cut them like an 808 does, thus preserving a major part of the amp's tone, but taming the muddiness if it was even needed in the first place.



When I ran my full-sized Helix, the FB100 unboosted paired well with the Mark IV running together. They filled out each other.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

thebeesknees22 said:


> I'm reaaallly liking the rockerverb a lot. It blends really great with most any kind of amp depending on where set the gain. It can do crunchy cleans. full crunch, metal, full doom fuzz.
> 
> If you put an eq down with a low cut of around 172Hz and it'll tighten it up real nice too. Or low cut around 172Hz then throw any overdrive or fuzz + rockerverb and that sounds real nice. (you don't need to do that cut though with the tube screamer or horizon drive)
> 
> (i am one that prefers loose gain vs the super tight modern djent gain though)



I haven't gotten update yet but I'm sure it will be great for stuff from the pop punk screamo years. 

Still need to build a Mesa Mark preset that has nofx vibes


----------



## odibrom

Hey folks, please forgive me if this has already been answered before, I'm considering on getting a Helix Stomp so to get some FX in front of my rig (Triaxis+G-Force+2:Fifty), mainly Wahs, compressors and some eventual pitch shifters of some sort. I'm not into the amp modeling stuff for now.

My idea is to put it in the rack and control it with my MIDI only pedalboard, turning on/off FXs and driving the wah pedal with one of 5 expression pedals at my feet. So the question is, can any MIDI CC# be assigned to control any parameter, meaning that if my expression pedal for the Wah is MIDI CC# 14, can it be used to control the wah's sweep, or a pitch sweep or anything else? Can I, for example, activate the Wah FX block only at MIDI continuous control #1, meaning that when the pedal is full heel down the FX is off, but as one starts to put some movement to it, it ignites the Wah and gets the rocking done?

This question is about MIDI assign to outboard gear that inputs MIDI signals into the Helix Stomp so to control it. Can this be done?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## laxu

odibrom said:


> Hey folks, please forgive me if this has already been answered before, I'm considering on getting a Helix Stomp so to get some FX in front of my rig (Triaxis+G-Force+2:Fifty), mainly Wahs, compressors and some eventual pitch shifters of some sort. I'm not into the amp modeling stuff for now.
> 
> My idea is to put it in the rack and control it with my MIDI only pedalboard, turning on/off FXs and driving the wah pedal with one of 5 expression pedals at my feet. So the question is, can any MIDI CC# be assigned to control any parameter, meaning that if my expression pedal for the Wah is MIDI CC# 14, can it be used to control the wah's sweep, or a pitch sweep or anything else? Can I, for example, activate the Wah FX block only at MIDI continuous control #1, meaning that when the pedal is full heel down the FX is off, but as one starts to put some movement to it, it ignites the Wah and gets the rocking done?
> 
> This question is about MIDI assign to outboard gear that inputs MIDI signals into the Helix Stomp so to control it. Can this be done?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Yes you can do this. The only caveat is that it needs to be mapped per preset and if you change the wah model it will want to ditch your mappings which is pretty annoying.


----------



## odibrom

laxu said:


> Yes you can do this. The only caveat is that it needs to be mapped per preset and if you change the wah model it will want to ditch your mappings which is pretty annoying.



Thank you very much for your reply. That really shines some light into my quest for getting some FX in front of the amp. Allow me another question, can it be programmed via USB with a PC editor?... or eventually using the Helix Native software? I know that Helix Native can export patches/programs into any of the Helix hardware formats...

... another thought that comes to my mind is, can I use the Helix Native to simulate the Helix Stomp?


----------



## laxu

odibrom said:


> Thank you very much for your reply. That really shines some light into my quest for getting some FX in front of the amp. Allow me another question, can it be programmed via USB with a PC editor?... or eventually using the Helix Native software? I know that Helix Native can export patches/programs into any of the Helix hardware formats...
> 
> ... another thought that comes to my mind is, can I use the Helix Native to simulate the Helix Stomp?



Helix Native is the plugin version that runs completely separately. HX-Edit is what you use to program the hardware from the computer.

Yes you can use Helix Native to simulate the Stomp, in the plugin preferences you can lock it to only allow putting the same amount of stuff in the preset as the real hardware allows so you can use that to gauge if you can fit everything you need.


----------



## odibrom

laxu said:


> Helix Native is the plugin version that runs completely separately. HX-Edit is what you use to program the hardware from the computer.
> 
> Yes you can use Helix Native to simulate the Stomp, in the plugin preferences you can lock it to only allow putting the same amount of stuff in the preset as the real hardware allows so you can use that to gauge if you can fit everything you need.



Awesome, thanks a million for your time.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Okay Helix folks. For Fractal stuff, there’s a free third party program called Fractool that allows you to inspect a preset without even having a Fractal product. 

Is there anything like that for inspecting HX presets?


----------



## laxu

Deadpool_25 said:


> Okay Helix folks. For Fractal stuff, there’s a free third party program called Fractool that allows you to inspect a preset without even having a Fractal product.
> 
> Is there anything like that for inspecting HX presets?



Not as far as I know. I don't think I have ever seen any 3rd party apps for Helix either. Fractal community has been pretty proactive in that area.

But you can just get Helix Native and run that for the trial period so I think that's even better.


----------



## Deadpool_25

laxu said:


> Not as far as I know. I don't think I have ever seen any 3rd party apps for Helix either. Fractal community has been pretty proactive in that area.
> 
> But you can just get Helix Native and run that for the trial period so I think that's even better.



Ah. Maybe I’ll try it that way. Thanks man!


----------



## nickgray

Deadpool_25 said:


> Is there anything like that for inspecting HX presets?



https://sensationnel-gerard-26922.herokuapp.com/


----------



## Deadpool_25

nickgray said:


> https://sensationnel-gerard-26922.herokuapp.com/



Thanks!


----------



## wakjob

nickgray said:


> It's more suitable for rock, though it does high gain pretty decently. Still, not my first choice by any stretch. It's pretty loose and fizzy, Marshall style distortion character.
> 
> I've recently discovered Fireball 100 though. Fucking amazing amp. But it must be used without a boost, and this model made me realize that boosts kind of suck. They shave off tons of low end, and they all have that mid/hi mid spike, and as a result they seriously homogenize the tone. A lot of the character and the beefiness of the amp come from those lows. A good idea is to try a gentle EQ and tame those lows in such a way that you don't completely cut them like an 808 does, thus preserving a major part of the amp's tone, but taming the muddiness if it was even needed in the first place.



Use the 'Simple EQ' pedal as a boost...best one in there IMO.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

So attempted to do the update tonight, not thinking to update my HX edit first, and it crapped out halfway through now won't load and my computer won't recognize that it is connected, should be lots of fun to deal with.


----------



## thebeesknees22

you may need to do a full factory reset when you turn it on.
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-to-factory-reset-a-helix-family-device/


----------



## Shoeless_jose

thebeesknees22 said:


> you may need to do a full factory reset when you turn it on.
> https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-to-factory-reset-a-helix-family-device/




Yeah done all the resets still wont boot I'm going to try and find a new USB cable as that could maybe be the weak link.

HX edit does the connecting animation but then no device connected message. Should be fun.


----------



## thebeesknees22

oof... gross. 

well..i'm out of ideas then. lol Good luck! hope you get it working!


----------



## GunpointMetal

Dineley said:


> So attempted to do the update tonight, not thinking to update my HX edit first, and it crapped out halfway through now won't load and my computer won't recognize that it is connected, should be lots of fun to deal with.


Download L6 Updaters, Restart in boot mode (hold down the middle to footswitches on the bottom row), update with Updater instead of HX Edit.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

GunpointMetal said:


> Download L6 Updaters, Restart in boot mode (hold down the middle to footswitches on the bottom row), update with Updater instead of HX Edit.




Thanks I downloaded this in the morning tried it once it didn't work yet but will spend some time with it tomorrow


----------



## nickgray

wakjob said:


> Use the 'Simple EQ' pedal as a boost...best one in there IMO.



I like the Mesa EQ. I pull 80hz and 240hz down, this does the trick really well, and 80hz needs more cut than 240hz, and then just boost the level if needed. I used the big 10 band EQ previously, but it's overkill.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

GunpointMetal said:


> Download L6 Updaters, Restart in boot mode (hold down the middle to footswitches on the bottom row), update with Updater instead of HX Edit.



Thanks again for advice, got it all booted up again and 3.11 installed!! phew lol


----------



## GunpointMetal

Dineley said:


> Thanks again for advice, got it all booted up again and 3.11 installed!! phew lol


Mine did the same thing when I updated. This was honestly the first time I've had a single issue with it in almost 6 years.


----------



## op1e

I just updated from 3.0, saw there was a 3.11 and went straight to that. But I have no Mandarin Rocker? I see the Das Benzin models. WTH do I need to load 3.10 first? Can I even go back?


----------



## thebeesknees22

op1e said:


> I just updated from 3.0, saw there was a 3.11 and went straight to that. But I have no Mandarin Rocker? I see the Das Benzin models. WTH do I need to load 3.10 first? Can I even go back?



you may need to do a factory reset. Make sure you've backed up everything first. You don't need to load 3.10 first. Going straight to 3.11 is fine.


----------



## sleewell

Make sure to update hx edit first, then the helix.


----------



## op1e

I just opened updater and loaded 3.10. It was HX Edit not showing the new amp. I downloaded latest of that and then it prompted me to load 3.11.


----------



## op1e

sleewell said:


> Make sure to update hx edit first, then the helix.


Yep I dumb dumb


----------



## sleewell

op1e said:


> Yep I dumb dumb




So am I. 

One time I did a factory reset before doing the backup lol. Lost everything haha. 

Line 6 makes a good quick vid on YouTube about updating.


----------



## Boofchuck

Anyone know of a way to access the tuner in snapshot mode on the hx stomp?

I'm curious if I could assign a long press to pull up the tuner using the command center but I have no idea if or how this would be possible.

Thanks.


----------



## ATRguitar91

Boofchuck said:


> Anyone know of a way to access the tuner in snapshot mode on the hx stomp?
> 
> I'm curious if I could assign a long press to pull up the tuner using the command center but I have no idea if or how this would be possible.
> 
> Thanks.


Page right and action on any screen will do it, not sure otherwise without reserving FS3/4/5.


----------



## Boofchuck

ATRguitar91 said:


> Page right and action on any screen will do it, not sure otherwise without reserving FS3/4/5.


That is actually helpful, thank you!


----------



## thebeesknees22

ok maybe dumb/crazy question

Does anyone know if the Helix can take a Line input? I thiiiink it can? 

I was thinking of trying to reamp with it without a reamp box. 

Apollo twin line out> Helix in (pad on..miiight need to use the Aux input?) > real amp> rivera rock crusher line out> Apollo Twin IN


I haven't tried it yet with my real amp yet. I did do a quick test with just the helix and it seeeeeeeemed to be ok. But I only spent like 2 minutes trying since I was busy with other stuff.

Think that would work without a true reamp box or am I opening myself to a crap ton of noise and other issues? 

I know you're saying to yourself. "Why would you do that? You have a helix" lol. Don't ask. I'm just experimenting. haha


----------



## thebeesknees22

actually nvmd, i'll just move some things around to free up a usb port. I was just being lazy and trying to get around it lol


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Oohhh what it could be???


----------



## laxu

MASS DEFECT said:


> Oohhh what it could be???
> 
> View attachment 95445



The announced link leads to something teased by IK Multimedia so it's not a Line6 thing at all. It's just Digital Igloo trolling a bit and a stab at how everything has an X in its name these days.


----------



## sleewell

Helix with wireless and more dsp would be sweet.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

laxu said:


> The announced link leads to something teased by IK Multimedia so it's not a Line6 thing at all. It's just Digital Igloo trolling a bit and a stab at how everything has an X in its name these days.


Oh man ... that got me. I wanted a Vetta III to happen badly. lol


----------



## GunpointMetal

sleewell said:


> Helix with wireless and more dsp would be sweet.


 I just don't want them adding wireless to a $2k device unless its G90-level quality. I had to give up on my G10S and my G30 because neither one operates very well in busy venues due to all the 2.4GHz traffic.


----------



## Tree

This hasn't been updated even since the last round of new Helix goodies, but I figured this was the best thread to bump.

3.15 came out yesterday! Has anyone had a chance to dig through it? I updated but had no time to plug in and give anything a go. 

John Cordy's demos of everything sound fucking fantastic, as always, so I'm really jonesing to get my grubby, little mits on my Stomp.


----------



## ATRguitar91

Tree said:


> This hasn't been updated even since the last round of new Helix goodies, but I figured this was the best thread to bump.
> 
> 3.15 came out yesterday! Has anyone had a chance to dig through it? I updated but had no time to plug in and give anything a go.
> 
> John Cordy's demos of everything sound fucking fantastic, as always, so I'm really jonesing to get my grubby, little mits on my Stomp.



To be honest, I'm pretty underwhelmed by this update looking through the release notes. The Dynamic Room/Plate and Shimmer reverb sound nice, but I was really hoping for some new high gain goodies. It was hinted as much over at TGP.

The only thing I'll end up using much is the Killer Z Metal Zone model probably.


----------



## CanserDYI

Wait wait wait 3.15 dropped???? Awww fuck what did I miss?


----------



## sleewell

one new amp and a bunch of effects. looks like one of them is like a montreal count to five type of deal. heard one is kinda like an eqd dispatch master which is one of my all time favs. we are going to the studio tonight so i just practiced last night and got my guitars ready but i am excited to give them a whirl. 


pretty freaking sweet!!!!!!!!


----------



## thebeesknees22

There's some cool droney random delay/fx-y things that are kinda cool, and the new shimmer verb is nice albeit I'll probably never use any of them. They added all the old legacy things which is kinda nice to have back. 

The new amp is interesting. Not sure if it's my cup of tea, but I need to mess with it some more. It's a little weird that they say to leave the master at 10 but the default settings don't have it as that. 

With all the old legacy stuff in there now, the fx list for the helix is kinda ridiculously huge lol


----------



## CanserDYI

I LOVE the new amp, it cleans up soooo well with the volume pot, and actually gets a decent amount of drive out of it. Have to play with these delays but some sound cool.


----------



## thebeesknees22

I was thinking I was crazy that the Das benzin Lead was sounding better, but indeed they did do a fix on it. It looks like the levels were out of whack before

Amp/Preamp > Das Benzin Lead channel output was set to -36dB instead of -24dB—FIXED


There are some other good bug fixes too​
I am hearing really low levels on the legacy delays though. I'm not sure if it's just me or if other people are hearing that too. They seem waaay low even with the mix up.


----------



## GunpointMetal

That new amp sounds really good. It's not a sound I use much, but I ended up just dicking around with a little chord progression for like 45 minutes when I landed on it. Some of those delays look fun even if I wouldn't have much of a musical use for them and I'll take all the dynamic verbs they want to throw in there. 
Do people find there are actually holes in the high gain options, or is it just a more is more type thing?


----------



## CanserDYI

GunpointMetal said:


> That new amp sounds really good. It's not a sound I use much, but I ended up just dicking around with a little chord progression for like 45 minutes when I landed on it. Some of those delays look fun even if I wouldn't have much of a musical use for them and I'll take all the dynamic verbs they want to throw in there.
> Do people find there are actually holes in the high gain options, or is it just a more is more type thing?


Personally I think helix has plenty of High gain models, plenty of low gain models, plenty of clean models. At this point, I want them to keep working on making those the best they can be and the most DSP efficient they can get. I dont mind getting new models, but they've already struck oil with me, I'd rather they focus on keeping bugs down and as technologies improve, improve upon the existing sounds they have.


----------



## Tree

Definitely more is more  
I realistically use 3-4 of the high gain amps on the regular, but I’m also a dumbass that can sit there cycling through endless options on modelers all day without getting bored. 

I am beyond stoked to try out these new delays and verbs and the new amp. 

Also,  to the inclusion of more legacy stuff. I missed the MT2 sim on here. I can’t use the HM2 clone convincingly at all for some reason. I had great success with the Killer Z getting some Swedish tones in Pod Farm, though.


----------



## thebeesknees22

GunpointMetal said:


> That new amp sounds really good. It's not a sound I use much, but I ended up just dicking around with a little chord progression for like 45 minutes when I landed on it. Some of those delays look fun even if I wouldn't have much of a musical use for them and I'll take all the dynamic verbs they want to throw in there.
> Do people find there are actually holes in the high gain options, or is it just a more is more type thing?



I was playing around with the new amp some more and it takes OD"s really well. Tight yet crunchy.

I myself am pretty happy overall with the high gain tone selection. More is always fun though. I would like to see if some of the older models could be improved though like the uberschall model, and maybe like 2204. And I wish they'd update/improve the cab modelling. I know we have IR's, but cabs are arguable one of the most important parts and they just kinda seem to /shrug on that part since there are so many 3rd party IR's.


----------



## Tree

What I would really like to see some more of is some extra ODs. Not that there’s a shortage, but why not? I’d love to have an OD820 onboard since I love that early 2000s Sneap/Richardson guitar tone.


----------



## GunpointMetal

thebeesknees22 said:


> And I wish they'd update/improve the cab modelling. I know we have IR's, but cabs are arguable one of the most important parts and they just kinda seem to /shrug on that part since there are so many 3rd party IR's.


This is really the only thing I really want besides some more internal LFO controller type stuff. If they added a single cab, multi-mic block or a horizontal mic adjustment I think the stock cabs would be excellent.


----------



## ATRguitar91

CanserDYI said:


> Personally I think helix has plenty of High gain models


Once they include a 5153 I'll be totally satisfied with the high gain selection.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

ATRguitar91 said:


> Once they include a 5153 I'll be totally satisfied with the high gain selection.




This! Both blue and red!


----------



## Blasphemer

I updated my Helix the night before this came out. While it doesn't take too long to do, it is a little tedious, especially when it rebuilds presets and all that jazz. I saw the announcement that the new firmware dropped and felt like this guy:


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0

I was literally checking two days ago if there was any info on a new update and then this. Noice!


----------



## lurè

Bumping because I've found a good deal for an Helix (1k for rack+pedalboard) and I want to know more about IRs.

I've tried Native with stock cabs and some Ownhammer Heavy Hitter impulses and it's a night and day difference: for high gain stuff stock cabs are reeeaally lacking.

Any other mandatory IR I should check? I've read good things about York Audio and purchased the mesa 212 V30 cuz it was 1$ but I still have to try it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I got the York Audio 4x12 and 2x12 Mesa packs. Both of them have the main IRs I'm using at the moment, so I can vouch for them.


----------



## bigcupholder

lurè said:


> Bumping because I've found a good deal for an Helix (1k for rack+pedalboard) and I want to know more about IRs.
> 
> I've tried Native with stock cabs and some Ownhammer Heavy Hitter impulses and it's a night and day difference: for high gain stuff stock cabs are reeeaally lacking.
> 
> Any other mandatory IR I should check? I've read good things about York Audio and purchased the mesa 212 V30 cuz it was 1$ but I still have to try it.


Stock cabs are not that bad but they're harder to dial in and require dual cabs with different mics summed back to mono, just like IRs that are multi mic mixes. 

I didn't find Ownhammer to be better, just very different from the stock cabs, particularly for their hyped bass. York is significantly better IMO. I'd recommend getting one of their 4x12 V30's (either the Mesa OS or Bogner) if you're into metal. If you want more classic rock to early metal, also get a 4x12 greenback IR pack (either the M25 or EVH). I'm also a big fan of the 2x12 M65 IRs - that's probably the most versatile one as it has a more neutral character than the others.


----------



## GunpointMetal

lurè said:


> Bumping because I've found a good deal for an Helix (1k for rack+pedalboard) and I want to know more about IRs.
> 
> I've tried Native with stock cabs and some Ownhammer Heavy Hitter impulses and it's a night and day difference: for high gain stuff stock cabs are reeeaally lacking.
> 
> Any other mandatory IR I should check? I've read good things about York Audio and purchased the mesa 212 V30 cuz it was 1$ but I still have to try it.


I mean, everyone hears things differently and likes different things. So far my favorites have been the Bogren Digital and the York DV77 2x12 pack. The Bogren ones sound (to me) like there is more board/preamp/EQ mojo mixed in and they work well in recordings with but they can get harsh and overly sizzly at high volumes for live use, where as the DV77 is a little more "natural" sounding (sounds more like its right off the mic with minimal post processing) and the Fredman and Mean mixes sound freaking awesome at rehearsal volumes. I also have some ML Soundlabs ones that are good and mix well with both the Bogrena and York ones. I haven't found anything I liked from Ownhammer or Redwirez. Either too boomy or too scooped on the ones I've tried. I actually rebuilt all of my live tones around the DV77 Fredman mix because it sounds so tasty cranked up.


----------



## CanserDYI

Right now I finally found a sound I want to use on my next project, all helix based. I have a Horizon Precision drive split into parallel with a Swedish Chainsaw (HM2) [this way I can blend in a bit of the grind] going into the Revv Purple and then into 2 IR's, one Ownhammer Orange H75 Scumback 4x12 and one York Audio Mesa 2x12 V30, and I reallllllllly think it captures the chainsaw but retains its tight and precise character. I'm really happy with it right now.


----------



## ATRguitar91

I'll second the York Audio recommendation. I prefer them over the Ownhammer and ML Sound Lab offerings. My favorites are the DV-77, M-65 Creamback, and Mesa OS412.

On almost every patch now I have a 50/50 mix of the DV-77 and OS 412.


----------



## ATRguitar91

CanserDYI said:


> Right now I finally found a sound I want to use on my next project, all helix based. I have a Horizon Precision drive split into parallel with a Swedish Chainsaw (HM2) [this way I can blend in a bit of the grind] going into the Revv Purple and then into 2 IR's, one Ownhammer Orange H75 Scumback 4x12 and one York Audio Mesa 2x12 V30, and I reallllllllly think it captures the chainsaw but retains its tight and precise character. I'm really happy with it right now.


I do this all the time to great effect, an awesome sound! Worth swapping in a fuzz in the HM2 spot as wel for a thicker sound.


----------



## lurè

Thanks, the 212 V30 form York Audio sounded better than the Ownhammer, need to check the OS Mesa 412 pack


----------



## thebeesknees22

I third...er 4th... whatever number it is the York IR"s. They're great. I like the 5153 pack and the M65 Cream for something different. All their stuff sounds great though


----------



## drb

I caved and bought a few packs from York Audio last weekend and don't get the hype at all. They're fine but I don't see why they're necessarily better than competitor's offerings, or even some of the free IRs around.

I got the Mesa OS 4x12, 2x12 (the discount one), and DV-77 packs and all have a harsh peak in the high mids depending on the speaker/mic mixes and all seem to lack low end.

What specific IRs or mixes from these packs are people using? With some fettling and changing amp settings I managed to get a combination of mic mixes from the DV-77 and OS4x12 packs sound good but none really worked on their own despite sounding great on various YouTube channels.


----------



## thebeesknees22

drb said:


> I caved and bought a few packs from York Audio last weekend and don't get the hype at all. They're fine but I don't see why they're necessarily better than competitor's offerings, or even some of the free IRs around.
> 
> I got the Mesa OS 4x12, 2x12 (the discount one), and DV-77 packs and all have a harsh peak in the high mids depending on the speaker/mic mixes and all seem to lack low end.
> 
> What specific IRs or mixes from these packs are people using? With some fettling and changing amp settings I managed to get a combination of mic mixes from the DV-77 and OS4x12 packs sound good but none really worked on their own despite sounding great on various YouTube channels.


oh i'm actually not as much of a fan of the DV77 one. I like my other dv77 ones I have better from Eminence. 

I tend to just use an sm57+121 combo of some kind and sometimes a room mic one when a pack has it.
I don't really use the MESA ones tbh. If I want a v30 i usually go with the Orange (since that's my real cab), or I'll use the bogner, or friedman, or etc.. 


The ampeg is great btw for bass


for other brands, i do like some of my Celestion digital stuff as well.


----------



## GunpointMetal

drb said:


> I caved and bought a few packs from York Audio last weekend and don't get the hype at all. They're fine but I don't see why they're necessarily better than competitor's offerings, or even some of the free IRs around.
> 
> I got the Mesa OS 4x12, 2x12 (the discount one), and DV-77 packs and all have a harsh peak in the high mids depending on the speaker/mic mixes and all seem to lack low end.
> 
> What specific IRs or mixes from these packs are people using? With some fettling and changing amp settings I managed to get a combination of mic mixes from the DV-77 and OS4x12 packs sound good but none really worked on their own despite sounding great on various YouTube channels.


I was pulling decent sounds with all of the mixes, definitely not noting any weird mid spikes, especially compared to Bogren and ML which both have some extra high-mids. Are you changing your amp settings when you're trying out new IRs or are you just dropping them in to a patch you dialed in with something else and hoping for the best. At headphone volume I think the differences are negligible, and I think some of the Bogren Digital one's work better in some full mixes without doing much, but the DV77 Fredman mix at band volume is beautiful. I always adjust my amp settings when I'm changing IRs, though. A few presets I'd like with Ownhammer IRs definitely needed some mids and presence dialed down with the York and the Bogren ones, but I find that's more because the Ownhammer Mesa OS IR I was using is just scooped and dark comparatively.


----------



## lurè

Do you guys use Mixes or Singles with the York Audio?


----------



## CanserDYI

Okay who at Eminence Digital is smoking crack and charging 50 bucks for the DV77 pack?


----------



## drb

GunpointMetal said:


> I was pulling decent sounds with all of the mixes, definitely not noting any weird mid spikes, especially compared to Bogren and ML which both have some extra high-mids. Are you changing your amp settings when you're trying out new IRs or are you just dropping them in to a patch you dialed in with something else and hoping for the best. At headphone volume I think the differences are negligible, and I think some of the Bogren Digital one's work better in some full mixes without doing much, but the DV77 Fredman mix at band volume is beautiful. I always adjust my amp settings when I'm changing IRs, though. A few presets I'd like with Ownhammer IRs definitely needed some mids and presence dialed down with the York and the Bogren ones, but I find that's more because the Ownhammer Mesa OS IR I was using is just scooped and dark comparatively.


This was running HX Stomp line out -> Precision Drive -> 5153 50w Stealth -> back into HX Stomp to load IRs. Yeah I ended up being stuck with the amp at noon settings, if I run mid, high, or presence above ~12-1 o'clock it tends to sound bad, like the particular frequencies accented by the IR get out of control and begin to sound a bit scratchy and white-noisy.


----------



## GunpointMetal

drb said:


> This was running HX Stomp line out -> Precision Drive -> 5153 50w Stealth -> back into HX Stomp to load IRs. Yeah I ended up being stuck with the amp at noon settings, if I run mid, high, or presence above ~12-1 o'clock it tends to sound bad, like the particular frequencies accented by the IR get out of control and begin to sound a bit scratchy and white-noisy.


The "scratchy and white-noisy" thing makes me think something is going too hot back into the Helix. You're also not getting any power amp sound in that signal chain to the IR, whereas I'm using full amp models into the IRs so there is some sauce from the power amp modeling as well.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

drb said:


> I caved and bought a few packs from York Audio last weekend and don't get the hype at all. They're fine but I don't see why they're necessarily better than competitor's offerings, or even some of the free IRs around.



So true  I have given up on buying new IRs for years now. No matter how much people online try to hype them up as the best thing ever.. None of them are better than the other. They are all stuck at IR quality level.

I think the start of my disillusionment began when when I bought Fractal's Cab Lab 3 and some Fractal Cab Packs in 2017. I fell for the Ultra-Res marketing talk, expecting them to be the shit.  Imagine my reaction when I realized they were actually pretty average IRs with nothing special to them except for the propietary format. 

After that I bought packs from all the big players in the IR game and none of them were exceptional compared to the other, or even comparing them to older IRs, so eventually I stopped buying them altogether.

It's all about picking an IR that fits with the mix, dialing in the "amp" right, and playing with the OD or EQ before the amp.  Don't need to buy any new IRs at all.


----------



## drb

GunpointMetal said:


> The "scratchy and white-noisy" thing makes me think something is going too hot back into the Helix. You're also not getting any power amp sound in that signal chain to the IR, whereas I'm using full amp models into the IRs so there is some sauce from the power amp modeling as well.


My Ownhammer IRs sound just fine, as do the stock Helix cabs. Sorry I made a mistake in that signal chain, there's a Captor between the amp and the HX Stomp so I do have resonance and presence controls.

I probably need to just go back with fresh ears and an open mind. I find that any new IR sounds gross and alien at first.


----------



## GunpointMetal

drb said:


> My Ownhammer IRs sound just fine, as do the stock Helix cabs. Sorry I made a mistake in that signal chain, there's a Captor between the amp and the HX Stomp so I do have resonance and presence controls.
> 
> I probably need to just go back with fresh ears and an open mind. I find that any new IR sounds gross and alien at first.


It's possible, or maybe you just don't like the sound of that speaker. I haven't found a single Orange IR that I can make sound good, but a lot of people love those cab impulses from various people. For me, whenever I get new IRs I don't even mess with them until I can get it at the spot at band volume and then I just jump between amp models at stock settings until something sounds cool and adjust from there. I want to get as a good of a "raw" sound as I can with them. 


AwakenTheSkies said:


> So true  I have given up on buying new IRs for years now. No matter how much people online try to hype them up as the best thing ever.. None of them are better than the other. They are all stuck at IR quality level.
> 
> I think the start of my disillusionment began when when I bought Fractal's Cab Lab 3 and some Fractal Cab Packs in 2017. I fell for the Ultra-Res marketing talk, expecting them to be the shit.  Imagine my reaction when I realized they were actually pretty average IRs with nothing special to them except for the propietary format.
> 
> After that I bought packs from all the big players in the IR game and none of them were exceptional compared to the other, or even comparing them to older IRs, so eventually I stopped buying them altogether.
> 
> It's all about picking an IR that fits with the mix, dialing in the "amp" right, and playing with the OD or EQ before the amp.  Don't need to buy any new IRs at all.


There's definitely something to be said about dialing to the cabinet. There's only so many ways to mic a speaker when you have a sound you're after. I like to try different speakers, and I like to try IRs that have the extra production sauce from time to time for fun and educational purposes. If I just want a Mesa 4x12 V30 with an SM57 on it, I think the stock cabs can do that fine.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

GunpointMetal said:


> There's definitely something to be said about dialing to the cabinet. There's only so many ways to mic a speaker when you have a sound you're after. I like to try different speakers, and I like to try IRs that have the extra production sauce from time to time for fun and educational purposes. If I just want a Mesa 4x12 V30 with an SM57 on it, I think the stock cabs can do that fine.


True. But it's such a weird thing how IRs are sold and marketed. Buying an IR pack is like buying the lottery. All the product demos have always been 100% useless for me, because it will always sound different once you use it with your rig. So what's the point of all those demos? You never know whether the pack is good or not until after you've bought it...


----------



## Emperoff

Same here. Finally tried York Audio impulses and wasn't blown away. Not that they're bad or anything, but I really didn't notice a dramatic difference over my existing ones. They all seem pre-filtered in the lows and highs to make them "mix-ready" which is a trend in most companies. Cool if you're recording, but not so much when jamming.


----------



## GunpointMetal

AwakenTheSkies said:


> True. But it's such a weird thing how IRs are sold and marketed. Buying an IR pack is like buying the lottery. All the product demos have always been 100% useless for me, because it will always sound different once you use it with your rig. So what's the point of all those demos? You never know whether the pack is good or not until after you've bought it...


I mean that’s the same when you buy a preamp or a cab or a mic. You’re still going to have to turn knobs and adjust EQ to make it do the thing you want it to. There’s never going to be an IR or EQ setting that’s got an “instant awesome” button. NDSP has made a lot of people think so just by being loud, lol.


----------



## drb

OK I'm going to eat my words here and say I had a quick blast this morning and found some sounds I liked. It still sounds like it's missing low end but I'm happier now. I also found that these IRs really like the 5153 50W Stealth's unboosted red channel far more than the blue channel boosted with a Precision Drive, which is cool because I wasn't getting much use out of the red channel prior and now it sounds fantastic with the tight, high-mid focused IRs.

I also found that taking the mids down on either channel by ~2. Also, reducing high and presence to taste has made it far more agreeable, although there's a fine line between too much high and and then a blanket over the sound.

Is it a normal thing that some IRs are more sensitive to EQ changes on the amp than others? It's a really interesting phenomenon.


----------



## lurè

When i Had the Precision Drive I didnt like it at all with my Mark IV.

I've tried to replicate a boosted Mark sound wit helix native and the best OD to my ears was the precision drive


----------



## CanserDYI

I still find the Horizon drive to be the best model OD in the helix.


----------



## bigcupholder

drb said:


> there's a fine line between too much high and and then a blanket over the sound.
> 
> Is it a normal thing that some IRs are more sensitive to EQ changes on the amp than others? It's a really interesting phenomenon.


It's always a fine line between too much treble and not enough. It's not specific to IRs.

An IR is a really detailed/nuanced EQ. That's it. It's possible there's some characteristic EQ spike or scoop on a particular IR that lines up with a characteristic EQ spike or scoop of an amp and makes it seem more sensitive to changing settings.


----------



## drb

I'm fairly new to physical gear so the Precision Drive is the only real boost I've ever used but up until now it has been absolutely perfect for what I wanted.

I really need to try out the boosts in Helix properly, so far they've all sounded really good so I just use whatever takes my fancy at the time I'm creating a preset.


----------



## Xaeldaren

CanserDYI said:


> I still find the Horizon drive to be the best model OD in the helix.



Agreed. I like changing the attack settings on snapshots, especially for lead, to have a wide range of tones.


----------



## thebeesknees22

the minotaur or heir apparent tend to be my go too's for OD's, but I'm kinda all over the place and don't really have a set one yet. It just depends. More often than not i go for the minotaur though.


----------



## Tree

thebeesknees22 said:


> the minotaur or heir apparent tend to be my go too's for OD's, but I'm kinda all over the place and don't really have a set one yet. It just depends. More often than not i go for the minotaur though.


That’s because the Minotaur is a fucking hype beast! 

Seriously though, it works so well on pretty much every amp model in the Helix. I use it in high gain patches as a boost, I use it on clean and overdriven patches to kick up the drive for garage rock stuff a la The Strokes. It’s just so good. 

There’s a reason the Centaur is so sought after. I ain’t ever paying money for a real one though. I’m content with Line 6’s mythical beast.


----------



## thebeesknees22

Tree said:


> That’s because the Minotaur is a fucking hype beast!
> 
> Seriously though, it works so well on pretty much every amp model in the Helix. I use it in high gain patches as a boost, I use it on clean and overdriven patches to kick up the drive for garage rock stuff a la The Strokes. It’s just so good.
> 
> There’s a reason the Centaur is so sought after. I ain’t ever paying money for a real one though. I’m content with Line 6’s mythical beast.


haha so true
it's definitely made me tempted to go after one of the klon clones like the archer ikon, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet since other things came up.


----------



## aWoodenShip

GunpointMetal said:


> I mean that’s the same when you buy a preamp or a cab or a mic. You’re still going to have to turn knobs and adjust EQ to make it do the thing you want it to. There’s never going to be an IR or EQ setting that’s got an “instant awesome” button. NDSP has made a lot of people think so just by being loud, lol.


Do we think that's what it is? I'm genuinely curious not trying to be sarcastic. I only recently got a HX Stomp and while I like it a lot so far and can definitely get good serviceable tones from it, I don't like another high gain amp sim on it nearly as much as I like what I get from my Granophyre plugin.


----------



## GunpointMetal

aWoodenShip said:


> Do we think that's what it is? I'm genuinely curious not trying to be sarcastic. I only recently got a HX Stomp and while I like it a lot so far and can definitely get good serviceable tones from it, I don't like another high gain amp sim on it nearly as much as I like what I get from my Granophyre plugin.


Admittedly the Granophyre amp is a unique style of gain, but that’s more to do with the amp that’s modeled than it being better or worse than anything else. I’ve demo’d EVERYTHING that NDSP has released and haven’t found anything I didn’t think I needed compared to Helix. That is a great sounding amp/model, though.


----------



## Emperoff

GunpointMetal said:


> Admittedly the Granophyre amp is a unique style of gain, but that’s more to do with the amp that’s modeled than it being better or worse than anything else. I’ve demo’d EVERYTHING that NDSP has released and haven’t found anything I didn’t think I needed compared to Helix. That is a great sounding amp/model, though.




To me the main difference between NDSP and Helix Native was how long it took me to get a great tone, and the clear winner was NDSP. 

Helix Native is an insane value for the money though, but since I can get away with 3-4 sounds I'm well covered with the Plini VST I use.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

GunpointMetal said:


> Admittedly the Granophyre amp is a unique style of gain, but that’s more to do with the amp that’s modeled than it being better or worse than anything else. I’ve demo’d EVERYTHING that NDSP has released and haven’t found anything I didn’t think I needed compared to Helix. That is a great sounding amp/model, though.



I legit couldn't hear any major differences, even when I found the reveal video. Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I want a 5153 model in the Helix because the Badonk covers the same ground. 
But yeah, I see what you mean though. I found a "budget" version of the Granophyre amp plugin made by some russian dude, and it's definitely a super unique amp. I wouldn't be against L6 eventally putting it in the Helix.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Emperoff said:


> To me the main difference between NDSP and Helix Native was how long it took me to get a great tone, and the clear winner was NDSP.
> 
> Helix Native is an insane value for the money though, but since I can get away with 3-4 sounds I'm well covered with the Plini VST I use.


NDSP's strong point is creating products to a specific market and giving you great sounding presets. Up until the Metallurgy line I think Line 6 was really focusing on giving you all of the options to get those tones along with any other sound you've ever heard a guitar make, but you do all the work yourself. If I was running a commercial studio aiming at metal and hard rock production I would definitely buy NDSP plugins just for speed reasons.


----------



## STRHelvete

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I legit couldn't hear any major differences, even when I found the reveal video. Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I want a 5153 model in the Helix because the Badonk covers the same ground.
> But yeah, I see what you mean though. I found a "budget" version of the Granophyre amp plugin made by some russian dude, and it's definitely a super unique amp. I wouldn't be against L6 eventally putting it in the Helix.


Ah yes, the Vadin Taranov sim. It's one of my favs


----------



## lurè

Helix is arriving in the next couple of days and I'm still looking for an FRFR solution. I'll probably, at least for now, just plug it in the fx of my amp and try it with a normal cab but the FRFR cab is tempting.

What cab would you go for? I was looking at a 12" speaker like the Yamaha DXR12 or QSC K12. The cab format would be a plus but the Atomic or Friedman are waay out of budget.


----------



## lewis

lurè said:


> Helix is arriving in the next couple of days and I'm still looking for an FRFR solution. I'll probably, at least for now, just plug it in the fx of my amp and try it with a normal cab but the FRFR cab is tempting.
> 
> What cab would you go for? I was looking at a 12" speaker like the Yamaha DXR12 or QSC K12. The cab format would be a plus but the Atomic or Friedman are waay out of budget.


it seems to get a tonne of hate, but I had dual Headrush 112s and they were absolutely unbelievable for me live and band practices. No idea if I got lucky but mine sounded godtier and were super loud. 12 o clock was louder than my drummer and perfect for stage monitoring.
Sold them when I stopped gigging but I would pick at least one up again in a heartbeat If I started playing live again


----------



## GunpointMetal

lurè said:


> Helix is arriving in the next couple of days and I'm still looking for an FRFR solution. I'll probably, at least for now, just plug it in the fx of my amp and try it with a normal cab but the FRFR cab is tempting.
> 
> What cab would you go for? I was looking at a 12" speaker like the Yamaha DXR12 or QSC K12. The cab format would be a plus but the Atomic or Friedman are waay out of budget.


I’ve got a pair of EV ZLX12P speakers. Do rehearsal I only need one, and for any shows where we’re playing a real stage 1 is more than enough. I’ll drag out the second one if we need to play a basement or some dive with no real FOH. Just keep in mind that FrFr completely changes the sound from a live cab to a mic’d cab and lots of people don’t like that on stage.


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## STRHelvete

lewis said:


> it seems to get a tonne of hate, but I had dual Headrush 112s and they were absolutely unbelievable for me live and band practices. No idea if I got lucky but mine sounded godtier and were super loud. 12 o clock was louder than my drummer and perfect for stage monitoring.
> Sold them when I stopped gigging but I would pick at least one up again in a heartbeat If I started playing live again


This is my experience. It sounds great and I have NO volume problems. As a matter of fact it was ear splitting loud with just the Helix and Headrush on half. I turned it up just to see what would happen and me and the band all ran out of the room, shut the door and backed away. I hit a chord and it sounded like God was screaming in there. I don't see a reason to need anything louder than the Headrush 212 I've got


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## ATRguitar91

lurè said:


> Helix is arriving in the next couple of days and I'm still looking for an FRFR solution. I'll probably, at least for now, just plug it in the fx of my amp and try it with a normal cab but the FRFR cab is tempting.
> 
> What cab would you go for? I was looking at a 12" speaker like the Yamaha DXR12 or QSC K12. The cab format would be a plus but the Atomic or Friedman are waay out of budget.


I will echo others that the Headrush stuff is solid. I had the 108 but sold it and kept the 112. Can get super loud and really fill a room.

It's accurate enough I think. Not as flat as my Yamaha HS5s, but that's easily compensated by adjusting your high and low pass.

Do you have any studio monitors? For lower volumes and the purest representation I think those are the best bet. I'm running my Stomp through monitors most of the time.


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## lurè

ATRguitar91 said:


> Do you have any studio monitors? For lower volumes and the purest representation I think those are the best bet. I'm running my Stomp through monitors most of the time


I have a pair of Mackie CR3. 
General consensus just looking around the internet is that "cheaper" monitors and frfrf usually have boomy lows and harsh higs. 
The headrush and Alto ts312 are generally included in that category, but you can get 2 of them for the price of 1 QSC.

The use would be gigging as main guitar output for stage and audience, since going FOH and monitoring is rarely a possibility in smaller venues.

That's why I was gravitating towards a cab format 2x12 but so far they seem all very expensive, at least more then PA speakers.


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## ATRguitar91

lurè said:


> General consensus just looking around the internet is that "cheaper" monitors and frfrf usually have boomy lows and harsh higs.


That's probably true, but that's easily fixed by adjusting the location of your high and low passes. I have a dedicated snapshot per patch for the FRFR, and the only thing I change is that I cut out more high and low frequencies and it sounds great. 

If you're willing to spend more than by all means go for it, you'll probably get a better sound, but the Headrush stuff is more than adequate to me, especially if it will mainly be gigging/jams and you'll be relying on your monitors at home. If I ever play out again I'll definitely be using the Headrush.


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## GunpointMetal

lurè said:


> I have a pair of Mackie CR3.
> General consensus just looking around the internet is that "cheaper" monitors and frfrf usually have boomy lows and harsh higs.
> The headrush and Alto ts312 are generally included in that category, but you can get 2 of them for the price of 1 QSC.
> 
> The use would be gigging as main guitar output for stage and audience, since going FOH and monitoring is rarely a possibility in smaller venues.
> 
> That's why I was gravitating towards a cab format 2x12 but so far they seem all very expensive, at least more then PA speakers.


FWIW I lined up every 12” powered PA speaker in GC under $700 and the Yamaha and the EV ones sounded most accurate to me. Headrush/Alto/Harbinger were all pretty hyped in the low end, JBL and Mackie were also kinda boxy/boomy. QSC CP was pretty good, but the 10” cost as much as the 12” of everything else at the time and didn’t seem to have the volume. The best one I tried was the Friedman ASM, but that was way out of my price range since I wanted to find a pair for just in case.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

BTW, I noticed that Metallurgy lets you run dual IRs in it's cab block. Are there any rumors that they're going to include a dual-IR block in the next (or future) Helix update?


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## GunpointMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> BTW, I noticed that Metallurgy lets you run dual IRs in it's cab block. Are there any rumors that they're going to include a dual-IR block in the next (or future) Helix update?


There's been hints that SOME sort of cab update is coming to the hardware, but it sounds like it won't be as extensive as the Metallurgy cab section. Maybe @Digital Igloo wants to drop some cryptic, non-confirmation posts over here, too.


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## thebeesknees22

I wish there were phase flipping and delay options for IR's in the Helix/helix native. Phase compensation of some kind seems like a no brainer to have


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## aWoodenShip

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> BTW, I noticed that Metallurgy lets you run dual IRs in it's cab block. Are there any rumors that they're going to include a dual-IR block in the next (or future) Helix update?


Yeah some people seem to believe that there will be huge update to the cab section but I personally haven't seen anyone say anything other than that this will be "the biggest sonic upgrade".


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## GunpointMetal

thebeesknees22 said:


> I wish there were phase flipping and delay options for IR's in the Helix/helix native. Phase compensation of some kind seems like a no brainer to have


So the only time I've run into issues with some free packs and some home-made ones. It seems like most of the major manufacturers edit for phase coherence.


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