# What are Meshuggah leads based on?



## jackson_metal_head (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi.

just wondering what the lead/solo parts in meshuggah are based on, they are quite jazz fusion inspired, can anyone specify a scale or anything?

and if thats a complete no0obish question i apologize in advance.

thanks!


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## Desecrated (Apr 12, 2008)

A lot of augumented/whole tone. 

Also try to find some alan holdsworth.


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## MrJack (Apr 12, 2008)

I think somebody spoke about them using the major harmonic scale, basically it's the major scale with a flat sixth.


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## Ryan (Apr 12, 2008)

This'll get the Meshuggah rolling. 







[media]http://www.abominodium.com/Scale.mp3[/media]


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## Necky379 (Apr 12, 2008)

alright so im gonna hijack this one...i was wondering the same thing about mastodon, specifically "joseph merrick" its got such a sick nautical feel to it that i'd love to rip off if i could figure what scale it's based on


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Apr 15, 2008)

thornendal loves his diminished scale! Try messing around with that, (not the arpeggio mind) with lots of legato!


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## dougsteele (May 31, 2008)

try melodic minor as well, it's all over sol niger within. also, whole tone half tone diminished scale.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jun 1, 2008)

One of the more enigmatic things about Meshuggah, their riffing is so much easier to "get" compared to their solos, esp. because of the "keyboard" tone and strange scales/intervals.


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## Regor (Jun 1, 2008)

Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and the worst solos I've ever heard.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jun 1, 2008)

All_¥our_Bass said:


> Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and some of the _*BEST*_ solos I've ever heard.


 
Some think differently. 

I respect your opinion, I'm just messin'.


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## Durero (Jun 1, 2008)

Regor said:


> Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and the worst solos I've ever heard.


You must've not heard the earlier Meshuggah stuff like the None EP.

+1 to listening to a lot of Allan Holdsworth if you want to hear where the Meshuggah leads are coming from.


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## Maniacal (Jun 1, 2008)

Wasps


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## TomAwesome (Jun 1, 2008)

Regor said:


> Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and the worst solos I've ever heard.



I think you're confusing him with Kerry King.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jun 2, 2008)




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## philkilla (Jun 2, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> I think you're confusing him with Kerry King.



+1


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## elrrek (Jun 4, 2008)

Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman are fucking awesome. People completely disrespect them when in all honesty they just can't see past the fact that while they THINK Slayer are just a thrash band they are in fact jazz band releasing wave upon wave of SHEET NOISE AWESOMENESS in their solos.

OK, during the last record Mr King appears to have lost his way a bit but in a live environment you cannot argue that these guys are incredible, pulling off those trademark bonkers solo's every time, it's fantastic. If you could melt Kerry, Jeff, Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew into one guitarist you would have the perfect being.


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## Seedawakener (Jun 4, 2008)

elrrek said:


> Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman are fucking awesome. People completely disrespect them when in all honesty they just can't see past the fact that while they THINK Slayer are just a thrash band they are in fact jazz band releasing wave upon wave of SHEET NOISE AWESOMENESS in their solos.
> 
> OK, during the last record Mr King appears to have lost his way a bit but in a live environment you cannot argue that these guys are incredible, pulling off those trademark bonkers solo's every time, it's fantastic. If you could melt Kerry, Jeff, Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew into one guitarist you would have the perfect being.



I'm a bit confused? Is this post filled with sarcasm?
 
On topic: I'd guess that there is a lot of whole note scale involved in his solos.


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## Maniacal (Jun 4, 2008)

"Solos and indeed, life, are not complete without the use of melodic minor arpeggios on a daily basis." - Confucius


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## guitarplayerone (Jun 4, 2008)

Maniacal said:


> "Solos and indeed, life, are not complete without the use of melodic minor arpeggios on a daily basis." - Confucius



melodic minor arpeggios? I'm not quite sure what you mean there...


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## TomAwesome (Jun 4, 2008)

elrrek said:


> Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman are fucking awesome. People completely disrespect them when in all honesty they just can't see past the fact that while they THINK Slayer are just a thrash band they are in fact jazz band releasing wave upon wave of SHEET NOISE AWESOMENESS in their solos.
> 
> OK, during the last record Mr King appears to have lost his way a bit but in a live environment you cannot argue that these guys are incredible, pulling off those trademark bonkers solo's every time, it's fantastic. If you could melt Kerry, Jeff, Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew into one guitarist you would have the perfect being.



Jeff, maybe, but Kerry himself has admitted that his solos are just noise. Also, live versions of solos in songs seem to be pretty inconsistent with those on the albums.


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## neon_black88 (Jun 4, 2008)

> Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and the worst solos I've ever heard.



The tapping solo's in their heavy songs are pretty much random, but listen to "Zeta 1 Reticule" or "Bouncing in A Bottomless Pit" from sol niger, those solo's are pure magic. Or just get the tabs off ultimate guitar.


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## Metal Ken (Jun 4, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> Jeff, maybe, but Kerry himself has admitted that his solos are just noise. Also, live versions of solos in songs seem to be pretty inconsistent with those on the albums.



They actually try to play them the same as on the records. I dont know why they'd want to, though


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## Maniacal (Jun 4, 2008)

guitarplayerone said:


> melodic minor arpeggios? I'm not quite sure what you mean there...



Arpeggios derived from the melodic minor scale. 

So the 7th arpeggios would be

minor/major7
minor 7
major7 sharp5
dom7
dom7
minor 7 b5
minor 7 b5

add the 9 and prepare to explode


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## Benzesp (Jun 4, 2008)

Holdsworth..... Nuff said.


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## CaptainD00M (Jun 4, 2008)

Slayer dont solo...
We all know Kerry and Jeff slaughter Virgins, drink their blood, and rape the copres to summon notes from the pits of hell... Thats why their solo's is so awsome and teh n00b's cants evra masterz dem...


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 29, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> A lot of augumented/whole tone.
> 
> Also try to find some alan holdsworth.



Haha, nice dude thats the first person who came to mind for me.

the Future Breed Machine solo(1) is something like

C# Major Phrygian 



CaptainD00M said:


> Slayer dont solo...
> We all know Kerry and Jeff slaughter Virgins, drink their blood, and rape the copres to summon notes from the pits of hell... Thats why their solo's is so awsome and teh n00b's cants evra masterz dem...



eye knowz thiz....Nevah...not evar happenz f0r ennehwonz

eye trai angel of deff an eye failz mayng.

Tehrz n0 composition in a slayer solo....it's filled of 'teh trickeh kromatik runz' an stuffz.

sorry to get off topic, but hes so right, its not because the solo's are so well written....Its just you can't hear a fuckin' thing they are playing.



All_¥our_Bass;1063605 said:


> Some think differently.
> 
> I respect your opinion, I'm just messin'.



LOL.

That post was full of Win.


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## Jongpil Yun (Jul 30, 2008)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Haha, nice dude thats the first person who came to mind for me.
> 
> the Future Breed Machine solo(1) is something like
> 
> C# Major Phrygian



Phrygian Dominant?

Anyways, Thordendal's solos are so Holdsworthian that I'd do a double take if I ever heard an aeolian run or a 1-b3-5 arpeggio. Not that it's a bad thing. I love Thordendal's solos. Listen to the solo on Organic Shadows.

Watch this video:

[googlevid]6595362002985980095[/googlevid]


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## Zoltta (Jul 30, 2008)

well....in that lessons video they release a few weeks ago, they said their solos were kinda random improv and became solos when they actually sounded good


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## drmosh (Jul 30, 2008)

Zoltta said:


> well....in that lessons video they release a few weeks ago, they said their solos were kinda random improv and became solos when they actually sounded good



well, they are improv, but no way does he just play random notes like some people claim.


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## TonalArchitect (Jul 30, 2008)

Zoltta said:


> well....in that lessons video they release a few weeks ago, they said their solos were kinda random improv and became solos when they actually sounded good




Well, he said he improvised them until he came up with something he liked, but just because it's improvisation doesn't mean that it wasn't within the context of a scale, say harmonic major, the diminished scales, whole tone, and whatnot.


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## Zoltta (Jul 31, 2008)

TonalArchitect said:


> Well, he said he improvised them until he came up with something he liked, but just because it's improvisation doesn't mean that it wasn't within the context of a scale, say harmonic major, the diminished scales, whole tone, and whatnot.



True but since he improvs then its possible he doesnt base them off of any scale and its just a huge coincidence that it ends up being one. Possibly plays from the heart or some kind of blues influence or some shit idk. Not sure if that makes sense at all but yeah


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## drmosh (Jul 31, 2008)

Zoltta said:


> True but since he improvs then its possible he doesnt base them off of any scale and its just a huge coincidence that it ends up being one. Possibly plays from the heart or some kind of blues influence or some shit idk. Not sure if that makes sense at all but yeah



nah, that makes no sense 
he definitely improvises with some scales in mind


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## TonalArchitect (Aug 1, 2008)

Zoltta said:


> True but since he improvs then its possible he doesnt base them off of any scale and its just a huge coincidence that it ends up being one. Possibly plays from the heart or some kind of blues influence or some shit idk. Not sure if that makes sense at all but yeah




Yeah, I don't mean that he plays solely in only one scale during a solo or something, but likely that when he improvises he likely will play something with which he's familiar, be it a scale shape or piece of one. When I improvise, I usually use scales that I know, so maybe he does the same, but with mixed and matched weird scales. 

This is just speculation, so I could be putting words in his mouth (or notes under his fingers as it were), but he probably knows a few of these scary-ass scales which he employs with occasional chromatic embellishment. 

But I think I get what you're saying, and you could be right. 

Even if it is only coincidence, if there is a scale into which many Meshuggah solos would fit, then that would satisfy the needs of this thread. 

So, I don't know, but that "10 Most Useful Scales" video clip is probably a good starting point, and it's damn cool besides.


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## gaunten (Sep 2, 2008)

Regor said:


> Funny... there's 'structure' to his solos? I thought they were random as hell, and the worst solos I've ever heard.


 
well, if you look at the recent video of them showing some riffage on metalkult, there is a short 9 second clip where fredrik actually speaks in the interview and all he says is the answer to the question "how do you go about writing solos" and he says:
quote: "I just improvise til' it sounds good, and live I just improvise."
so I guess your're right in some way, but there are some solos that sounds pretty much the same way everytime also, like Straws pulled at random, or the first one in FBM


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## Stealthdjentstic (Sep 2, 2008)

A while ago i posted about what scale is used on Future Breed Machine and people told me it was Phyrigian something. So check that one out.


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## Santuzzo (Sep 5, 2008)

Maniacal said:


> Arpeggios derived from the melodic minor scale.
> 
> So the 7th arpeggios would be
> 
> ...



On the 7th step you might also use a dominant 7th #5 arpeggio as the 7th degree of the mel min scale in jazz is used as a dominant.


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## Maniacal (Sep 5, 2008)

Aye!


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