# The case against earplugs



## Goro923 (Nov 8, 2012)

So.

There's a couple of dudes I usually hang out and go to shows with. We have a good time and all, but they usually start making fun of me right around the time when I take out my earplugs. I've tried to explain to them countless times how important it is to protect your hearing, being in turn answered with "pussy", etc.

I couldn't give less of a shit about the name-calling, I just wish they'd realize that prolonged and repeated exposure to loud volumes does cause hearing problems. When I tell them that I do it because I want to be able to hear something when I'm 30, they usually reply with "You only live once" and things of the sort. Naturally this annoys me to no end, because with good earplugs you can actually hear the music _better_ than without them.

I'd just like to hear thoughts/experiences and/or arguments (in favor of using them, of course) to change peoples minds; I'm sure most people on this forum know how important this is.

Protect your ears, people


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## abandonist (Nov 8, 2012)

There's not really an argument to be made against them other than laziness or "false metal" bullshit.


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## Loomer (Nov 8, 2012)

There is no such thing as an argument against earplugs.


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## Goro923 (Nov 8, 2012)

^^I meant arguments in favor of using them, to try to convince people, but thanks anyway


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## troyguitar (Nov 8, 2012)

I turn 27 in 1 month and have poor hearing already. I now wear them at all shows/rehearsals but a decent amount of damage has already been done.

I really don't know how I could ever stand not wearing them. When I'm around anything loud now without earplugs it is downright painful.


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## no_dice (Nov 8, 2012)

When I'm playing guitar and drums loudly at home, earplugs actually make it sound a lot better to me.  Wearing them at a show ensures I won't have a headache later, along with ear ringing that sounds like a vacuum is running next to my head whenever I'm in a quiet room.


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## NaYoN (Nov 8, 2012)

Perceptions about hearing protection and noise-induced hearing loss of attendees of rock concerts. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 8, 2012)

Earplugs kick ass. Don't listen to your friends.


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## bulb (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm happy to say that 90% of the shows I have been to, I have had earplugs of some sort.
I played maybe a handful of Periphery gigs back in the day (probably whilst still on drums too) without earplugs, and it was horrible.

Right before we started touring full-time I invested in a molded set, which really changed everything for me. They don't block out sound so much as attenuate it, so you can hear everything just as clearly as you would, but at a level that won't damage your ears.

I think a big reason people hate ear plugs is because the cheap ones do tend to only allow low frequencies through whilst completely blocking the harmful high freqs, but with the molded set, it makes loud things sound BETTER with them in so you end up putting them in all the time so you can hear everything better.

I can't recommend those enough, and yeah at about 150-170 bucks it's not cheap, but then again, we are talking about your ears here, and those CANNOT be repaired...(yet, but even when we will have the technology, it will be vastly more expensive than the preventative measures)


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## m3l-mrq3z (Nov 8, 2012)

I would rather be called a "pussy" on a daily basis than lose my hearing.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Nov 8, 2012)

Not wearing earplugs is silly. There is no arguing against people that aren't using logic.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Nov 8, 2012)

Earplugs prevent all the extra hissing and bring fourth more clarity


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## Overtone (Nov 8, 2012)

I try to bring them with me. It often does improve the sound of the show, but at some shows I take them out because I find that A) it's not that loud and B) it sounds better without them at that show. Really depends on the band, the venue, and the sound guy.


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## flo (Nov 8, 2012)

Wearing earplugs is as uncool as wearing a helmet when riding a bicycle. Or using condoms. Or not looking constantly into laser beams. Or driving a car without being completely drunk. In the dark, with the lights on.

What I want to say is that not protecting yourself from obvious dangers is really stupid.


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## Goro923 (Nov 8, 2012)

bulb said:


> it makes loud things sound BETTER with them in so you end up putting them in all the time so you can hear everything better.



And here I thought I was the only one who had earplug withdrawal 

Mine aren't molded but they aren't cheapos either, and I never actually thought that it was possible to hear the intended frequencies and cancel out the harmfull ones until I tried them out for myself.

I originally bought them to see the American Carnage Tour a couple of years ago (you don't know painfully loud if you haven't seen Slayer, seriously), started taking them to every concert and eventually rehearsals. I usually keep them close by just in case someone starts drilling without prior notice


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## Mprinsje (Nov 8, 2012)

ha, that's what i said until about a month ago.

then i had a particularly loud band practice which made my ears beep n buzz for 3 days straight, also massive headache for a day.

so now it's earplugs and i love it. even cheap ones for $20 or $30 can make the difference.


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## JosephAOI (Nov 8, 2012)

I've never worn earplugs to a show I'm sad to say 

Where can I get some good ones for relatively cheap?


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## Goro923 (Nov 8, 2012)

^^These are the ones I have, they're actually cheaper than I rememberd, but they've really made a difference for me:

LivePlugs.com - Hearing protection for music - LivePlugs &ndash; ear plugs for music


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## m3l-mrq3z (Nov 8, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> I've never worn earplugs to a show I'm sad to say
> *
> Where can I get some good ones for relatively cheap?*



Man, the ability to hear well (enough) is priceless. If I were gigging constantly I would sure as hell NOT buy cheap earplugs. 

Good and cheap don't match well in my book.


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## Hyacinth (Nov 8, 2012)

I bring earplugs with me to all shows now. Ever since I went to a Coheed and Cambria show and the soundman was trying to make everybody deaf.


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## Winspear (Nov 8, 2012)

More fool them.

The most you can do is give them the facts: Tell them what kind of volumes the ear can stand and what volume the show is. Explain how that will affect hearing very quickly.
And indeed "you only live once"...So I'd like to be able to listen to music for more than 10 years


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## Winspear (Nov 8, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Man, the ability to hear well (enough) is priceless. If I were gigging constantly I would sure as hell NOT buy cheap earplugs.
> 
> Good and cheap don't match well in my book.



You'd be surprised, the goto ER-20s are about £5 and very good.


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## guitarmadillo (Nov 8, 2012)

When you wear hearing aides, you already have molded earplugs. Just turn them off and I'm good on the sound. I also do that when I'm at the shooting range, but not when I'm on the firing line.


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## DavidLopezJr (Nov 8, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> You'd be surprised, the goto ER-20s are about £5 and very good.



Amazon.com: Etymotic Research ER20 High-Fidelity Earplugs-White with Clear Stem: Electronics

These have been recommended to me by just about everyone. Kick ass they are.


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## Necris (Nov 8, 2012)

I wear hearing protection when I mow the goddamn lawn, there's no way I'm standing next to a cranked half stack without some form of ear plugs or earmuffs.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Nov 8, 2012)

DavidLopezJr said:


> Amazon.com: Etymotic Research ER20 High-Fidelity Earplugs-White with Clear Stem: Electronics
> 
> These have been recommended to me by just about everyone. Kick ass they are.




Yup. I have a pair and they are brilliant. I wear them at every practice and every show.

Just dont get the red ones. I have had people think my ears are bleeding on multiple occasions.


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## Richie666 (Nov 8, 2012)

I really want to get a pair of those... and I will, but I do have one concern. I'd be a bit wary of going to any brutal show for fear of them being jammed into my ears. A ruptured ear drum doesn't sound like much fun. Is this a legitimate concern?


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## darren (Nov 8, 2012)

Well, your friends will be the coolest, manliest 60-year-old deaf people.

You only get one set of ears. If your ears are 'ringing' after a concert, or you have that 'muffled hearing' sensation, it means you've done hearing damage. And hearing damage is irreversible.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Nov 8, 2012)

Richie666 said:


> I really want to get a pair of those... and I will, but I do have one concern. I'd be a bit wary of going to any brutal show for fear of them being jammed into my ears. A ruptured ear drum doesn't sound like much fun. Is this a legitimate concern?



Be a boss like me and sit in the balcony away from all the rowdy idiots.


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## darren (Nov 8, 2012)

Ask your friends if they'd stare directly into a bright light for an hour straight without sunglasses or a welding mask.


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## EdgeC (Nov 8, 2012)

When your friends start bagging you out just put your earplugs in.

Works for me. Also works when the missus is asking me to do the dishes etc.


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## TheKindred (Nov 8, 2012)

another vote for Etymotics. 

I used to use the 'construction' foam plugs and always hated them because they just muffle everything. The Etymotic's just attenuate the levels and do indeed make the wall of noise sound better at shows.


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## groovemasta (Nov 8, 2012)

It kind of sounds like you are being a pussy actually, everyone know tinnitus is the sign of a true metaler   !!!!!!!!!!!111


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## WildBroskiAppears (Nov 8, 2012)

I've been to three metal shows now, and I only wore earplugs at the most recent, Summer Slaughter. I got to the show, saw the earplugs, and it took about a millisecond of thought, considering that i'd be seeing both Veil and Periphery, to convince myself. They got knocked out of my ears just before Periphery came on though  all that presence for one pair of ears was painful, to say the least.


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## fassaction (Nov 8, 2012)

Your friends are being douchebags if they are making fun of you about ear plugs...

I am 32 years old....and I have a pretty shitty case of tinnitus (ringing of the ears) from years and years of playing in bands and refusing to wear ear plugs. If I could roll back the clock, I would have worn them.

Laying in bed is the absolute worst. Everything is quiet and all you hear is that high pitched hissing noise that will drive you batty.

I can barely listen to music through headphones anymore because it just makes it worse, no matter what the volume. 

The worst part......no cure. At least not at this time. Simple advice: wear ear plugs. You only get one set of ears, dont ruin them because your friends are dipshits.


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## Winspear (Nov 8, 2012)

darren said:


> Well, your friends will be the coolest, manliest 60-year-old deaf people..


60? They'd be lucky


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## baptizedinblood (Nov 8, 2012)

I've got a mild case of tinnitus at 19...not fun. I don't really notice it unless I try to haha. I've been to a fair amount of small shows in which the PA/sound guy sucked/didn't exist..wish I had considered ear plugs back then. Played about 15 shows with my band, got flak for wearing plugs every practice/gig...now they all have extreme cases of tinnitus and I'm sitting here with my hearing _mostly_ intact.


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## JPhoenix19 (Nov 8, 2012)

Earplugs are metal as hell- dare I say, kvlt?


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## WhiteWalls (Nov 8, 2012)

It's not even a debate to me, as anything close to concert or rehearsal volume physically hurts my ears and I can't even stay 3 meters from a drumkit without ripping my eardrums off. It's not volume damage, rather it is due to ear/sinus infections I had when I was younger (and I still do sometimes), which messed up a lot with the amount of volume I can tolerate.

Anyway I had my fair share of people who told me "lol are you wearing earplugs? are you a pussy etc", I just answer them "see you when you're 50"

Also I like the foam ones a lot because after a while you learn how to position them so you get the desired amount of high frequency rolloff, obviously if you put them all the way in suddenly you find yourself in a dubstep concert, but there's always a happy medium which doesn't kill your ears and lets you enjoy the music


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## Sofos (Nov 8, 2012)

I have been wearing these to shows for about 4 months now, and can honestly say they make the show sound so much better. Much less overpowering low end, more equal levels. I can hear the vocals, the guitars, bass, drums, keys, whatever. I love them. 
3M Peltor Combat Arms Earplugs - Amazon.com
(Hint: Yellow side out)


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 8, 2012)

I use some cheap $30-$40 dollar hearos and not only do they do an ok job of killing volume, they also make everything sound clearer because its much easier for you to actual hear whats going on at volumes that are not 999999db.


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## xCaptainx (Nov 8, 2012)

My incoming in ear monitors are worth more than my car, haha. I've been using ear plugs ever since I started going to shows. The only musicians that I run into that tend not to like them are vocalists for some odd reason.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 8, 2012)

xCaptainx said:


> The only musicians that I run into that tend not to like them are vocalists for some odd reason.



They tend to dislike anything that gets in the way of them hearing their own voice.


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## FireInside (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm just over 30 and I have noticed I definitely have damaged my hearing. I always listen to music, tv, ect louder than everyone else because I can't hear it enough at normal volumes. Pretty f'n sure I have tinnitus too. When I was younger I never used ear plugs and I am seeing the effects now. 

All part of being young and stupid.


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## Sinborn (Nov 8, 2012)

I dunno, cochlear implants are getting better all the time. Perhaps in 20 years you can get implants that are either more precise than our own natural hearing or attach directly to the nerve where there's no damage. I wouldn't count on it tho 

Good live shows are fucking loud. Stupid loud. Painful loud. It's still loud with plugs, you get the same pound in your chest with less pound in your ears.


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## lobee (Nov 8, 2012)

Tinnitus ain't no joke. Wasn't there a guy who committed suicide because he was a long time sufferer? To anyone feeling the peer pressure, just put the earplugs in, smile, nod and continue to give zero fucks. Always bring some extras in case you misplace them, and also to offer to your friends. That's what bros do. I plan on listening to music until I can't anymore and I'd much rather have that happen later than sooner.



WhiteWalls said:


> Anyway I had my fair share of people who told me "lol are you wearing earplugs? are you a pussy etc", I just answer them "see you when you're 50"



"I'd like to hear you say that in 30 years. And at the rate you're going, I bet you would too."


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## ZXIIIT (Nov 8, 2012)

They can call you whatever they want, but in 20 years, you'll still be able to hear.

I won't even stay inside the venue if I don't have earplugs in, same for practice.


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## brootalboo (Nov 9, 2012)

Haven't read the thread, but want to let you guys know that about 4 years ago I did a band practice without earplugs and now I have a severe case of Tinnitus that has caused depression, anxiety, and sleep issues for me. Do not fuark with this stuff!


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## sol niger 333 (Nov 9, 2012)

I dropped $380NZD on a molded set. Fit perfectly, sounded great...then as soon as my jaw opened to sing, all the exterior sound poured in through the gaps and I had wasted $380. I don't like to wear earplugs live because I feel it removes me from being present in the music and how I sit myself in the live mix. 

I know it's bad for my ears but not vibing on the force of the music is not good at all for me performance wise..

I also smoke and drink and I'm a real badass motorbike riding woman slayer


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## hairychris (Nov 9, 2012)

I have tinnitus. It is very unpleasant. You don't want that. You REALLY don't want that. I can't remember what silence is.

I didn't use earplugs when I was younger. 10 years of high volume at gigs & clubs - aka the 1990s.

OP, your friends are dicks.

EDIT: The only time I occasionally don't wear plugs is if playing a show with crappy stage sound, otherwise they're always in now.


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## cronux (Nov 9, 2012)

and my 

I've used them back in the day, then for some reason i quit. I'm using them now and can't complain but on the other hand there is ONE REASON WHY I HATE EARPLUGS

when you forget them and have to do a gig/rehearsal


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## vstealth (Nov 9, 2012)

I really think I should start using them, even if they are the shitty sponge ones. The last gig I went to wasnt too bad until psycroptic came one, that was so damn loud...


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## Grand Moff Tim (Nov 9, 2012)

flo said:


> Wearing earplugs is as uncool as wearing a helmet when riding a bicycle. Or using condoms. Or not looking constantly into laser beams. Or driving a car without being completely drunk. In the dark, with the lights off.



Whoa whoa whoa, let's not be crazy now. Laser beams are rad.


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## Dayn (Nov 9, 2012)

Scream into his ear.

I learned at a very early age when I asked my sister to yell into my ear. That was louder than a bloody jet engine. Let's not repeat that.


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## Dan_Vacant (Nov 9, 2012)

I've only used hearing protection once while playing they were the giant ones Paul Gilbert uses and stuff was more clear.


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## Hybrid138 (Nov 9, 2012)

I always use them for practice. We are crazy loud. The other day, they moved and my ear wax was bugging me so I took one of them off. I heard our true volume for the first time in a good while. It was painfully loud! I was literally wincing in pain. But!!!! I heard my true guitar amp tone for the first time in a good while and fell in love all over again.

I love them for singing and bringing volumes down. I also think they help clarity in a way. I dont like them for growl/screaming. They do change tone. They arent great for horn players either...

When I go to shows I usually don't wear them. Sometimes mixing is bad so I put them in and they make it worse. Other times I don't feel live shows are too loud from where I stand.


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## avenger (Nov 9, 2012)

Yeah I've had some ringing in my ears before, the worst lasting a few days... I try to remember to bring them I've been to so many shows that its hit or miss if I even remember them but one time....


I didn't bring them and had to fucking leave it was so loud I thought I was going to fucking puke. I cant even explain the feeling it was like I was hammered and spinning around wildly about to puke... from noise.


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## abandonist (Nov 9, 2012)

I tend to stay in the back at shows now being 30 and not wanting to mix it up with kids. I generally find earplug unnecessary at that distance since a good portion of the sound is attenuated by all the bodies. 

What's amusing was having Across Tundras play my restaurant. It has brick walls and a solid floor. After the set, Tanner and I are talking and we're both all "That may have been the loudest concert we've both experienced". It' was... intense.

I wish I'd have had plugs there. We've had a bunch of bands play and I've never felt the need for them before, but man, that show...


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## Blake1970 (Nov 9, 2012)

The hearing loss not yours!


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## tm20 (Nov 9, 2012)

i never wear them because i thought you wouldn't be able to hear the music as good.....is this the case? if not then i may start using earplugs, although most shows i've been to haven't been too bad in terms of the volume. worse would've been Metallica, I couldn't hear properly for a day or two after the show


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## Hollowway (Nov 9, 2012)

I've got friends that say the same thing. And there's no use arguing with them. Just do your thing. This is just another topic that, when certain people disagree with me, it just convinces me more that I'm doing the right thing.


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## GSingleton (Nov 10, 2012)

As a percussion teacher, I heavily encourage ear plugs. I require my students to buy them or invest in a high quality pair


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## wilch (Nov 10, 2012)

Goro923 said:


> ^^I meant arguments in favor of using them, to try to convince people, but thanks anyway



I'm 33 and have damaged hearing from not using earplugs. It was out of pure laziness that I didn't use earplugs when younger, 17-20. I regret the times that I didn't use earplugs. Rehearsing in a tiled basement every week, for hours on end, with no earplugs. 

The extent of the damage didn't occur to me until I was 21 or so. I was in an electronics prac at uni. We were studying waves, and had to put together a wave generator and a little speaker. Anyway, my prac partner and I put it together, and when I finished I flicked it on.

Then I started checking all the cables, flicking it on and off, tapping on the speaker. Over and over again. My lab partner asked,

"wil, what are you doin?"

To which I replied, 

"It's not working, trying to find out why."

he then said,

"Are you serious? You can't hear that? It's f(*king loud."

....So I grabbed the frequency dial, and turned the frequency down. Suddenly I could hear it. There was a whole range that I couldn't hear at all, that EVERYONE else in the room could.

That scared me. Scared me lots.

Fast forward to now and I avoid situations where there's lots of people talking/music/noise and someone trying to talk to me. Why? Because I can't actually control my ability to "tune in" to the one person that's talking to me. Most people can. But to me all the sounds turn into a jumbled mess.

When you're in situations like the one I mentioned above you end up nodding and smiling alot. Which is just annoying.

There are cheap Etymotic ear plugs (ER20's) that decrease the volume of things but don't muffle things. They work, and they help you keep all your hearing.

Knowing that people can hear things that I can't get's on my nerves. Protect your hearing people!


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## benduncan (Nov 10, 2012)

im very concerned about my hearing. i dont really care about not being able to hear people when im older. or having the tv loud, but losing frequencies and then not being able to hear my guitar tone or my musics mix correctly. then possibly having bad tone because it sounds different to me that it doesnt to most other people

i started wearing ear plugs at concerts when i was 20 though i admit i will take them out for one or two songs, my favorites, lol. but i never knew more expensive pairs wouldnt muffle the sound so that will solve that.

but another problem remains. i basicly have music blasting in my ears 24/7. i wake up, work out with ear buds in, i try to keep it low though. then i record guitar/mix guitar, i use headphones. i usually have it pretty loud here, then ill drive somewhere and have my mix that i just bounced loud in the car.


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## ASoC (Nov 10, 2012)

When I play in a band, I use hearing protection. But as a trumpet player, I never do. It makes everything really weird for me, most likely because you use air for horns and not for guitar


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## glpg80 (Nov 10, 2012)

I have three sets of ear plugs. A set for music, a set for metal working/grinding in the shop, and a set of ear muffs for very long or very short intervals of noise.

I already have Tinnitus at 24, but this is due to medical complications and not dB abuse. 

Treasure your hearing!


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## Sam MJ (Nov 10, 2012)

If I were you I would just start talking quieter around them and tell your mates to stop shouting all the time. 

(even if they're talking normally)


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## Jimby Pearadoople (Nov 10, 2012)

I am thirty and my hearing is shot. 
I spent years in bands playing Metal and going to Metal shows. Then a manager at WalMart screamed over the p.a. one night and...well I don't know if you'd call it blowing my eardrums out but I guess you could. What followed was a ringing in my ears (tinnitus) that kept me up for weeks and weeks. WalMart wouldn't cover the doctors visit and now, a year later, my ears ring all the time. 

All that stuff about only living once is b.s. 
If there is a lot of white noise (like a chatty bar or heavy traffic) I only pick up on about half of what people say to me. I'm constantly asking my girlfriend to repeat things. 

It sucks because I want to be a recording engineer...own my own label and whatnot. Editing music exacerbates the tinnitus. The tinnitus makes me irate and short with people in frustrating situations. 

Beyond that, I've not been able to find a job since quitting WalMart for being treated like a con artist. I've had no choice but to drop out of college. And every single day I wake up to the tinnitus. 

Earplugs may look lame but so is being an illogical, unsupportive jerk. 
The only people that will rib you for weariing earplugs are man's men. Just tell them to go hunt or watch sports.


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## SD83 (Nov 10, 2012)

Goro923 said:


> "You only live once"


Isn't that the perfect reason to keep your body in the best possible condition? I can't even imagine being at a gig without earplugs. Or in a club although I have to say, at least here, concerts are about 4 times as loud. When I was younger I didn't care that much (still wearing earplugs), but these days I really wonder, does it have to be THAT loud? I get into the venue, opposite site of the stage, room full of people, and it fucking hurts without earplugs. Why? What's even worse, I know a handfull of people where I can't even sit in their cars without wearing earplugs, the entire car is vibrating and it sounds like shit... the absolute worst case of idiocy when it comes to destroying your ability to hear might be in-ear-headphones at a volume where you can identify the song from 5 metres distance. 
Ask your friends to do a professional hearing test. Around here, there are lots of possibilities to do them for free. Maybe the difference between what they SHOULD be hearing at their age and what they acutally CAN hear gets some of them thinking. Well, or maybe they just think it's cool. Like, scars from a fight or other "manly" stuff...


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## The Grief Hole (Nov 10, 2012)

lobee said:


> Tinnitus ain't no joke. Wasn't there a guy who committed suicide because he was a long time sufferer?



Ye. he stabbed himself to death because of it. Somewhere in England.


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## Goro923 (Nov 10, 2012)

SD83 said:


> the absolute worst case of idiocy when it comes to destroying your ability to hear might be in-ear-headphones at a volume where you can identify the song from 5 metres distance.



I was on the bus yesterday and I turned off my music for a bit to let my ears breathe. I heard music playing and figured the driver turned on the radio (which I don't think should be allowed, but that's for another thread ). Ten seconds later some girl walks right by me. Turns out the music was coming from her earphones 

I think the general youth culture and mindset (at least here in Spain) that revolves around getting wasted at clubs that play music at obscene volumes and in turn makes people have to listen to music at progressively louder levels (usually with awful earphones) are contributing to my generation being the one with the absolute worst hearing.


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## Double A (Nov 10, 2012)

Take it from a 30 year old dude with tinnitus, (I have had tinnitus my whole life but it is a lot worse now), people that don't wear earplugs because of some false machismo male bullshit are the real pussies.


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## kylendm (Nov 10, 2012)

This thread inspired me to pickup the hifi hearos. They work awesome!


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## BlackMastodon (Nov 10, 2012)

I get these from work and they have always served me well at local shows where our sound guys don't know a mixing board from their ass:
Howard Leight | Laser Lite Earplugs
My buddies that come with me kinda give me a funny look when I put them in but they never call me a pussy, maybe a couple times in an obviously joking way. Usually half way through the night they ask me for a pair since I bring a pair for everyone just in case. 
They do tend to muffle the sound now that I think about it so I think I will invest in a pair of those ER-20s.

As for in-ear headphones, I use these:
Air Cushion Inner-ear Headphones - HA-FX67
and I absolutely love them. They basically work like cheaper ear plugs when they are off or quiet which is perfect for working in a factory. Plus I don't have to turn up the volume to obscene levels and damage my hearing.

I'm glad I started doing this early on just to protect the hearing I still had even though I was afraid I already did a bit of damage. When I got hired at my job and they did the hearing test for me I learned that my hearing was actually still pretty good. Crisis averted.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Nov 10, 2012)

I wear ear protection to every band practice.


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## neotronic (Nov 10, 2012)

maybe they don't hear you explainning it, because the are already deaf...?


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## chickenxnuggetz91 (Nov 10, 2012)

At least you wouldn't be able to hear them call you "pussy" or say YOLO anymore. JK, in all seriousness it's good you use your earplugs. I use them at most shows. I made the mistake one time of not bringing them because I thought "Meh, it's a small show, I won't need them." I didn't until this experimental band came up and the guitar player turned his Mesa Rect literally all the way up and was using a whammy pedal, boutique overdrive, and oscillating with an analog delay. Gone to plenty of shows, but I'm pretty sure that was the first one where I noticed a loss in my ability to hear clearly, even days after.


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## Murmel (Nov 10, 2012)

I can understand horn players not wanting to wear earplugs. In my previous band we had a trombonist and a trumpet/horn player. They never wore earplugs unless we were rehearsing or having a gig.
If they were doing orchestral stuff they'd just give you a "wtf" look if you even suggested it


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## ROB SILVER (Nov 10, 2012)

There simply is no case against ear plugs.

Having said that, I've never been in a band where I wasn't the only person that used ear plugs.


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## icos211 (Nov 10, 2012)

This is why I love one of the sound guys here at House of Blues in Dallas. I don't know who he is, but he is a genius. I went to an Amon Amarth show a while back at HOB, and you could hear every note as clear as a bell, and it was loud enough to be enjoyable but even standing right in front of the stage with my head practically in the speaker cone of some of the monitors (as usual), sounded pretty quiet. My ears did not ring at all the next morning. Saw Apocalyptica and it was the same way. However, there have been shows there that were definitely *not* that way.

Sure hope he does the Dethklok show.


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## benduncan (Nov 10, 2012)

if you dont mind me asking....

to the people that have experienced noticeable hearing loss, this sounds so trivial, but has it cause any difficulty dialing in tones? or maxing decisions on mixes? or anything?

my dad can hear the crickets out side on a summer night which means he cant hear that frequency, that scared me.

his hearing loss is from gunfire not music though, lol


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Nov 10, 2012)

When I was 17, I did band practice two times in a row without earplugs, that was enough for me. I always carry Alpine earplugs in my key holder, and I use them even at loud cinemas or while driving if it's a long trip.


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## Goro923 (Nov 11, 2012)

I remember starting to actually worry about the whole hearing loss thing because of a physics class on sound pressure, acoustics, etc. The teacher said each time you have any sort of ringing in your ears after a concert (or whatever) means you've done damage to some extent, even if it goes away the next day.


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## Varcolac (Nov 11, 2012)

I have a pair of etymotics on my keychain, a few foam plugs in the "coins" part of my wallet, and a second eaten-up set of etymotics in my guitar case (they went through the washing machine about 6 months ago, prompting the purchase of the current set). No risks taken.

My hearing is precious. Both my grandfathers lost most their hearing quite early in life. One was expected; he was a builder using pneumatic drills without mufflers back in the day. The other was a bus driver, so his hearing loss makes me think there's something genetic in it and that as someone possibly at risk of hearing loss I should protect it while I've still got it.

Of all the senses it's the one I'd hate to lose the most. Sure it'd suck to lose my eyes, but language and music are my two great passions and I'm not giving them up that easily. 

I usually use plugs as an audience member for any fully amplified show. If it's a small venue with conversation-level music then I don't bother, but anything like gig volume the plugs go in. As a player, it depends on similar things. Open mic night? Screw it, not loud enough. Everything going through the PA, amps up to 11? Plugs ahoy.

Staring into a lazer is way cool though.


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## ROB SILVER (Nov 11, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> When I was 17, I did band practice two times in a row without earplugs, that was enough for me. I always carry Alpine earplugs in my key holder, and I use them even at loud cinemas or while driving if it's a long trip.



Like you, I had a scare early on that has made me much more careful than my friends.

Nearly 20 years ago... I was right under the speakers at and Extreme gig so I could watch Nuno's solo.

10 minutes later my ears were distorting! 

It seemed to recover the next day, although it will have done permanent damage I guess.

But a night spent thinking I was going deaf made me very careful moving forward


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## Hybrid138 (Nov 11, 2012)

My etymotics went through the washer several times and still work but I think I should buy a new pair.


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## Rick (Nov 11, 2012)

When they lose their hearing, you can start calling them pussies.


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## otisct20 (Nov 11, 2012)

Im 18 and have constant ringing in my ears because of the concerts I've been to. I am saving for a molded set because the cheap ones are uncomfortable in my ears.


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## wilch (Nov 11, 2012)

*double post*


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## wilch (Nov 11, 2012)

benduncan said:


> if you dont mind me asking....
> 
> to the people that have experienced noticeable hearing loss, this sounds so trivial, but has it cause any difficulty dialing in tones? or maxing decisions on mixes? or anything?



Short answer, yes.

I constantly need to ask the people around me if they like the sound, when I'm screwing with my tone or mixing something.

I mean, something that I think sounds good might have some harsh high frequency that I can't hear but everyone else can. There's no way around it anymore.

I'm always second guessing myself when it comes to tone. Which makes me desire more gear, gear that other people love the sound of. There's no taking the high road and thinking to myself, "I like what *I* hear. I'm happy with my tone."


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## benduncan (Nov 11, 2012)

damn, thanks for answering me though


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## epsylon (Nov 11, 2012)

I was regularly wearing earplugs (non-molded) at concerts to prevent hearing problems. In fact, since the FIRST concert I ever saw (I was sixteen at the time) I have had permanent ear ringing, very light and only noticeable at night. I tried wearing earplugs, but some of them were not comfortable and there was a noticeable loss of sound quality.

Then a few months ago, I went to a concert and decided to not wear them during the set of one the bands (Fleshgod Apocalypse \m/). The day after, I had to take my day off at work because the ear-ringing was WAY louder (louder than the fan of my computer) and addtionnaly I had a slight headache. Trust me, I felt VERY stupid for not wearing the goddamn protections. I went to the nearest hospital which have ear specialist on duty. If you ever have a problem with noticeable ear ringing, act QUICK. I cannot emphasize that enough. The first 24/48 hours are crucial. If you can get to a specialist and have simple medics prescribed, the ringing can be reduced what they were before (in my case, slight ringing only noticeable in the silence of the night). After that, IT IS TOO LATE. Don't fucking play with your hearing, medecine can not (yet) repair it if you fuck it up. Have you ever wondered why Paul Gilbert wears fucking headphones when he plays ? It's because he has fucked up his hearing after playing too loud for too long. Imagine what hell it must be to have permanent ear ringing when you're one of the best fucking guitar players on Earth. 

Anyway, a few weeks after my stupid mistakes, I did what I should have done a long time ago. I went to an audioprothesist and bought myself a pair of moulded -15dB earplugs. For 170euros, I can say it is one of the best investment in my fucking life. For some of you, 170 euros would be the cost you'd pay to the doctor if you fuck up your ears. So just fucking do it guys.

*Get moulded earplugs.* It's cheap and it will save your hearing. You do not want to live with permanent ear ringing (having known someone with it, I can say that it has severe psychological implications that make day-to-day life really hard).

I've been to quite a few concerts since then (including Hellfest where I've seen retardedly loud bands like Sunn O)))) and the sound quality is way better than with non moulded which tend to filter high frequency and lose all the detail.

My plan is to make a second -25dB pair soon to compare. -15dB will give you the best reduction while being still linear. -25dB is more recommended in really loud environments, or if you're a drummer or something like that, it's less linear but it preserves more.


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## budda (Nov 11, 2012)

I just have the hear-o's you can get at any hardware store. Those foam buds don't do jack shit (may have been stated). I know that molded ones would be an improvement, but what I have is the exact same as music stores sell for $20 (mine were $4.50). They cut out enough of the highs, but I can still hear everything fine.

I want molded ones moreso for the aesthetics of them while playing live instead of having orange sticking out of my ear canals 

OT: bulb used to play drums, then turned into a monster guitarist? Dear lord.


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## Sofos (Nov 11, 2012)

epsylon said:


> I've been to quite a few concerts since then (including Hellfest where I've seen retardedly loud bands like Sunn O)))) and the sound quality is way better than with non moulded which tend to filter high frequency and lose all the detail.



I went to see Sunn O))) with non moulded ear plugs, and the sound quality was phenomenal. I guess it comes down to which ear plugs you get.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Nov 11, 2012)

The real problem with loud enviroments is NOT the noise itself. It's desensitised people walking up and shouting right into your ear hole.

"WHATTTT? CAN'T YOU HEAR ME? I'M RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!!!!!"
Yes, I can hear you... *cough* moron.

Happens every show. Best thing to do is speak without making any sound, until they lean in...

"WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU SAYING??? I CAN'T HEAR YOU???"

*"WEAR SOME ******* EAR PLUGS YOU DEAF ************!!!!!!!!"*

They will wear their ear plugs in future, or at the least not harass you about it again!


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## MetalBuddah (Nov 11, 2012)

Hearing protection never really was a big concern for me until recently. I used to go to gigs and practices without earplugs but after a while I got sick and tired of my ears hurting so bad. I already have a slight ringing in my ears, nothing major, but still...this has really pushed me to wear earplugs whenever I go to a concert or practice. And I have got to say, ear plugs have made everything better. Everything is so much more clear and I can stand being in loud spaces for a long time.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Nov 11, 2012)

Actually, anyone got any good info on treating tinnitus?

The latest thing I read is the problem isn't the ringing, it's noticing it.
*_shakes fist angrily at over paid worthless researchers stating the obvious in the name of science_!!!*


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## MetalBuddah (Nov 11, 2012)

If anybody is looking for great earplugs at an affordable price, I would recommend anything in this product line: EarPro Products

These are the most comfortable and clearest earplugs I have used that aren't crazy expensive. And the big plus with these is that they have a chord that keeps the plugs together and they also fit very comfortably in the ear


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## wlfers (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm glad I started taking care of my ears at a relatively young age (18). Now I generally use some sort of hearing protection at all concerts but I still prefer to take them out when I'm performing so what I'm hearing is what the audience hears in terms of volume level and frequency. Not to mention I always felt I'd get in the groove then have my plugs fall out 

After reading this thread I'm grabbing some etys to see how they are!


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## hairychris (Nov 12, 2012)

benduncan said:


> if you dont mind me asking....
> 
> to the people that have experienced noticeable hearing loss, this sounds so trivial, but has it cause any difficulty dialing in tones? or maxing decisions on mixes? or anything?
> 
> ...



I don't get involved in any mixing because I know that I have a hole in the 8-8.5k range and loss of sensitivity elsewhere.

It's just got to be one of those things that I can't do. Hey ho. Not that I care as I find it massively boring.


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## kris_jammage (Nov 12, 2012)

Goro923 said:


> When I tell them that I do it because I want to be able to hear something when I'm 30, they usually reply with "You only live once" and things of the sort.


 

Kill them, kill them with fire.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Nov 12, 2012)

Excellent thread, guys. Apparently, a few of you have tinnitus. So do I. According to the last doctor I saw, I have no hearing loss and can listen to frequencies between 22-19 kHz. That said, I do find it hard to live with tinnitus and don't wish this upon any musician, as it can make things difficult. I avoid loud places and loud noises out of fear it could worsen up my condition. I too read about that Belgian metalhead that killed himself because of not being able to live with his tinnitus.

According to the doctor I last saw, accupunture can reduce the ringing, if not completely heal it. This might hold true for those among you whose tinnitus isn't the result of ear damage. Other things are held resposanbile for causing tinnitus, such as infections, stress and muscular tension. Bad eating habits (too much spice and stuff that irritates the intestines) can also cause/make tinnitus worse.

I don't understand why some of you practice at loud levels. I remember talking with a drummer I know about methods to decrease volume and increase sound quality at a rehearsal space. We all know about isolation methods, why not use them? I don't understand why bands feel like playing at high volume, considering its effect upon dynamics and overall clarity.


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## Thep (Nov 12, 2012)

Summer Slaughter 2009 (no protection) followed by an afternoon at the shooting range the next day. My earbuds fell out 3/4 way through the shooting and I didnt feel like putting the dirty bud back in my ear. 

The next two days, I had a vicious ringing in my ear that wasn't subsiding. It was honestly the scariest moment of my life, thinking I would have to live with this for the rest of my life.

Luckily, I went to an ENT clinic on day 3 and was prescribed a steroid regime that completed erased the tinitus after a few weeks. I realize I'm EXTREMELY lucky that I this worked, as I was told there was a large chance it wouldn't to the degree it did. 

If I had waited any longer, or if I took a few more shots at the range, the damage could have been permanent. I was also short $800 out of pocket, but it was best worst $800 I could have spent.


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## SenorDingDong (Nov 12, 2012)

It's okay--when they're deaf and can longer listen to music, you'll still be enjoying what you love.


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## asher (Nov 12, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Other things are held resposanbile for causing tinnitus, such as infections, stress and muscular tension. Bad eating habits (too much spice and stuff that irritates the intestines) can also cause/make tinnitus worse.



I've never heard that almost any of those can be related. Do you have any links or anything? I'm not trying to call B.S., I'm genuinely curious.


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## ArrowHead (Nov 12, 2012)

bulb said:


> Right before we started touring full-time I invested in a molded set




How does that work? Did you just make an appointment with a hearing specialist? Or do you buy the plugs, and then bring them to the doctor? I've been looking to have this done for quite a long time.


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## Matt_D_ (Nov 12, 2012)

Goro923 said:


> I've tried to explain to them countless times how important it is to protect your hearing, being in turn answered with "pussy", etc.
> 
> Protect your ears, people



when you're 40 and still enjoying music you can happily call them pussies for not being able to deal with tinnitus that could've been easily prevented.

no one calls people wearing sunglasses in summer a "pussy". if you're stupid enough to stare at the sun, you can deal with the consequences.


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## Matt_D_ (Nov 12, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> How does that work? Did you just make an appointment with a hearing specialist? Or do you buy the plugs, and then bring them to the doctor? I've been looking to have this done for quite a long time.



you make an appointment with an audiologist who takes an impression of your ear canal. (its one of the most amusing and weird things you'll ever do, maybe. they "inject" what is basically playdoh into your ears, its cold, and hilarious, and they ask you not to smile or change the shape of your jaw, which is impossible). 

they send the impressions off to somewhere that turns them into the plugs, and drills the appropriate holes for filters/attenuators. they, or your audiologist will install the attenuator. takes a few weeks usually.


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## Matt_D_ (Nov 12, 2012)

my story is that i used to go clubbing a lot, and at one point i had a terrible ear infection and had super bad tinnitus for about 4 days. it was just intolerable, and it was after that that i decided to take better care of my ears and have worn plugs ever since. (and i was clubbing a *lot* back in the late 90's early 2000's). I think i did 1 year without, and 7 years with plugs.

I found that my sensitivity to sound came back too. it was like my brain re-adjusted the level at which i heard back to something reasonable after switching to plugs. 

Im pretty lucky for a few reasons, back when i was out and about, sound systems were nowhere near as efficient/loud a they are today, and dance music isnt quite as focused in the human vocal range as metal/rock. I do have some very very very slight tinnitus that's only audible in complete silence, so I got *very* lucky. 

my brother though, struggles a lot. his is partly muscular, and partly damage (damn you mars volta!, i did tell him to wear plugs to that gig). poor guy has it pretty bad. and it frustrates the hell out of him as he's more of a musician than I am. there's no cure. only ways to mitigate the damage. 

drummers still scare me though. i dont like to be around acoustic kits at close proximity even with earplugs in. i seriously suggest investing in a midi kit for rehearsal if possible..


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## NaYoN (Nov 12, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> According to the doctor I last saw, accupunture can reduce the ringing, if not completely heal it. This might hold true for those among you whose tinnitus isn't the result of ear damage. Other things are held resposanbile for causing tinnitus, such as infections, stress and muscular tension. Bad eating habits (too much spice and stuff that irritates the intestines) can also cause/make tinnitus worse.



Acupuncture is pseudoscience and has no basis in fact. 

A randomized trial comparing acupuncture, si... [Arch Intern Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI


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## SirMyghin (Nov 12, 2012)

My ears pop, and crackle, triggered by impact noises INCLUDING keyboards, in which case I need music / a background to relieve this annoyance. This is from only FORGETTING earplugs at the occasional small room band practice and concert over the years.... It is an off and on thing but damned annoying.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Nov 12, 2012)

asher said:


> I've never heard that almost any of those can be related. Do you have any links or anything? I'm not trying to call B.S., I'm genuinely curious.



I wish the specialists I asked had talked about concrete studies, but these guys have a different approach to illnesses than most doctors out there.

Take my condition, for example. I don't suffer from hear loss, even though I have had tinnitus ever since I am 14. The cause is most likely not within my hearing system, but somewhere else. I actually know for a fact that some people develop tinnitus because of muscle tension. As soon as the muscle tension is gone, the tinnitus dissapears.



NaYoN said:


> _*Acupuncture *_is pseudoscience and has no basis in fact.
> 
> A randomized trial comparing acupuncture, si... [Arch Intern Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI



Not meaning to offend you, but that's a very arrogant thing to say ( a very Western one, too). Besides, you cite a single studie to support your statement, which in itself doesn't make sense. Acupunture never claimed to be a science or a scientific method, for that matter.

I don't know if you are a scientist or not, but you should know how pragmatic and chauvinistic science (or scientists) can get to be. I recommend reading J. Bergers "The morning of the magicians" or at least C.Fort's "The book of the damned" to get an overview on how science decides to overlook, deny and even ridicule things it can't explain.


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## epsylon (Nov 13, 2012)

NaYoN said:


> Acupuncture is pseudoscience and has no basis in fact.



It is (and many studies have proven it), but the placebo effect can do wonders.
In fact, what causes tinnitus is that a prolonged exposition to loudness rewires the brain in a different way. If the "rewiring" becomes permanent (see below), there is not yet a cure to go back to "old wiring". The solution is to help people deal with it "psychologically", the more you focus on that ringing and the more it becomes noticeable. On the other hand, if you can focus on something else, you'll become accustomed to it (like background noise) and won't have to deal with it anymore. The placebo effect (such as the one implied by acupuncture) can make wonders in that regard : as in many medical conditions, the belief that you will heal is essential to the healing process itself.



Thep said:


> Luckily, I went to an ENT clinic on day 3 and was prescribed a steroid regime that completed erased the tinitus after a few weeks. I realize I'm EXTREMELY lucky that I this worked, as I was told there was a large chance it wouldn't to the degree it did.



Yep, steroids are the standard treatment for this. But you have to be treated right away, if you want more than 72 hours, chances are that any tinnitus will be permanent.


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## tacotiklah (Nov 13, 2012)

Yeah your friends are gonna learn the hard way just like I did. I now have 45% hearing loss due to permanent damage to both my auditory nerves. It was caused by loud noise as well as repeated blows to the head. (thanks dad)

Conversation with me in person is like a constant game of Mad Libs from hell. I can only make out about half of what anybody says and the rest sounds like you're mumbling. So my brain has to basically "fill in the blanks" and I have to constantly guess at what it is that people are saying. Just last night I ended up in an argument with my cousin over what I thought she'd said and was actually said. I was in the middle of watching a movie with her and she wanted me to kill the lights since she was getting sleepy. Despite having my own room, I tend to crash on the couch in her room (she has a huge room like that) while we both watch tv. 

The next sentence that came out is the one of contention:
I thought she had said "Hurry up and turn out the lights, my eyes are hurting." In other words, I thought she was rushing me. Got a bit upset by that.
What she had actually said was "God, I miss my Andrew." (a guy she has fallen for and is a friend of mine)

Long story short, not being able to hear will make you a shittier musician and you'll end up living life like I do on a daily basis. I can't count the number of times (often in a row) that I've had to ask people to repeat themselves because everything they say sounds like a garbled mess. All because I had to be Betty Badass and be too metal for earplugs. Don't do that to yourselves please.


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## cataclysm_child (Nov 13, 2012)

I bought a molded set when I was 14. They were pretty damn expensive, but one of the best investments I've done.

Still wear them to this day, 12 years later.

I recommend everyone to buy some molded ones!


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## Repner (Nov 13, 2012)

This reminds me of a few years ago, when I was at Hammerfest in Wales.

My friend cam up to me and asked "What the hell are you doing wearing earplugs?"

"Oh these? I use them for conversations like the one we're having right now."

It amused him enough to stop asking.


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## NaYoN (Nov 13, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Not meaning to offend you, but that's a very arrogant thing to say ( a very Western one, too). Besides, you cite a single studie to support your statement, which in itself doesn't make sense. Acupunture never claimed to be a science or a scientific method, for that matter.
> 
> I don't know if you are a scientist or not, but you should know how pragmatic and chauvinistic science (or scientists) can get to be. I recommend reading J. Bergers "The morning of the magicians" or at least C.Fort's "The book of the damned" to get an overview on how science decides to overlook, deny and even ridicule things it can't explain.



How is it arrogant and western to say that it has no basis in fact? Please do cite me some resources showing it has basis in fact, other than a placebo effect. I cited one study because that was the one I found easiest to understand, here are some others:
A review of the evidence for the effectiveness, safety, and cost of acupuncture, massage... - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
Acupuncture treatment of chronic low-back pain -- a randomized, blinded, placebo-controlled... - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
Acupuncture: theory, efficacy, and practice. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central

All of those studies (and several others) state that it has no observable effect other than the placebo effect.

As for your casual dismissal of science; yes, science has been wrong before and yes, there are bad scientists; but that does not mean every single study is wrong. Science is concerned with coming up with models for how stuff work, and yes, sometimes when the data can't be explained by the model, it is scrapped. If there is too much data the model can't explain, then the model is scrapped. Yes, this process isn't perfect, but citing a book does not "debunk" several double blind trials on the same subject that reach the same conclusion: That acupuncture was not observed to have any effect other than a placebo effect. So, going back to my original statement, it does not have basis in fact, since it claims to "correct imbalances in the flow of qi through channels known as meridians" (there is no evidence to support this) and it is indeed pseudoscience.


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## BlackMastodon (Nov 13, 2012)

Just got a pack of those Etymotic ER-20s and I'm using them at work right now. They work great so far, can't wait to try them out at a concert.


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## Kiwimetal101 (Nov 14, 2012)

Im going to a gig on monday (BTBAM and AAL ).. Only a 800ish people max venue.. 

But after reading this thread and how you guys are having troubles, Im heading out to buy some earplugs tomorrow

Thanks for convincing me guys!!


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## SirMyghin (Nov 14, 2012)

asher said:


> I've never heard that almost any of those can be related. Do you have any links or anything? I'm not trying to call B.S., I'm genuinely curious.




I have heard it correlated to posture from time to time, and have noticed myself when I am doing more good posture promoted exercises, I am generally having less hearing related issues (slight ringing, or the popping and crackling I mentioned). Naturally, these symptoms are worse at work, when I can't generally set aside the time to do said exercises.


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## wildchild (Nov 14, 2012)

i developed tinitus at 22 now im 30 and I feel I cant hear anyone talking when Im out with my mates
it started to hit me after going to an yngwie gig and I had that rining for over a week and went to the doctor
now whenever I go anywhere that has loud music I have to wear ear plugs buts its the dampening ones that have isolation
damn if only my grandad was a rocker I could have learned now I am probably gonna have to get a hearing aid when I hit old man age


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## Eric Christian (Dec 1, 2012)

Goro923 said:


> So.
> 
> There's a couple of dudes I usually hang out and go to shows with. We have a good time and all, but they usually start making fun of me right around the time when I take out my earplugs. I've tried to explain to them countless times how important it is to protect your hearing, being in turn answered with "pussy", etc.
> 
> ...


 
Growing up on a hippie commune I've been around loud music since my childhood. I first saw the Dead when I was 10. Since then I've seen just about every punk & metal band you could possibly think of including Motorhead 3 times and Slayer (loudest) 5 times. I've never worn ear plugs except when I was working as a Stagehand for a local promoter and I simply needed to mute bands that I couldn't stand. Plus during rehearsals for the bands that I was in. Also, I wear either ear plugs or muffs when I'm using grinders and air chisels at my work. That said, my hearing is fine. I had it tested awhile back for work and passed 100%. In fact, I'm always hearing sounds before anyone else can.

I kinda came to the conclusion that prolonged exposure to loud amplified music might actually stimulate or improve my hearing. Granted, my ears would really ring after a show for a day or so but it always subsides and goes back to normal. I can't speak for others but I enjoy super loud concert level music. I'm going to SUNN (O))) in a couple weeks and I doubt I'll wear plugs. If it bugs you then wear earplugs and if your friends give you shit I'd say its time to either sucker punch the friends you got in the gut and tell them to chill out or find new friends.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Dec 2, 2012)

Eric Christian said:


> I kinda came to the conclusion that prolonged exposure to loud amplified music might actually stimulate or improve my hearing.



That's just not how hearing works, at all.


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## benduncan (Dec 2, 2012)

if i remember correctly hearing loss is caused by hairs in your cochlea being damaged.

its not like your immune system or something that can adapt.


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## asphyx123 (Dec 2, 2012)

Has anyone tried a set of these? I read good reviews but they are always from people working on construction sites etc. Noone ever seems to mention if they kill any frequencies and how well they work for live shows etc.

Amazon.com: Radians Custom Molded Earplugs: Sports & Outdoors



.


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## abandonist (Dec 2, 2012)

Eric Christian said:


> I kinda came to the conclusion that prolonged exposure to loud amplified music might actually stimulate or improve my hearing.



You came to the wrong conclusion. 

This is not up for debate.

It's like saying "Don't listen to anything I have to say"


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## Goro923 (Dec 2, 2012)

^^Yeah, I'm taking an Acoustics class this semester and all signs point to prolonged exposure being (if anything at all) really, really, really, really, really damaging to your hearing. Not that I had any doubts about it, though


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## darkinners (Dec 3, 2012)

hearing protection is very very important.
I regret I didn't take this seriously at my younger days.

This result me the sound I perceive from my left ear ring and distorted at certain volume/frequencies.
And I can't hearing anything over 15-16Khz now even on good monitors or earphones.
This is permanent

Now I am using these whenever I go to gigs or rehearsal.






They won't alter the sound much while giving you good hearing protection.
unlike most of the plugs will suck all of the trebles. pretty neat stuff.


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## NaYoN (Dec 3, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> That's just not how hearing works, at all.



Bro, that's such a western and arrogant thing to say bro


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## hairychris (Dec 3, 2012)

NaYoN said:


> Bro, that's such a western and arrogant thing to say bro



Dude needs to get his chakras aligned.

True story.


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## fps (Jan 14, 2015)

I have had to do a couple of gigs and practices without ear plugs and when I was younger I went to a fair few shows without ear protection. It's only when I go to bed and it's quiet that I notice the tinnitus, bit of a shame though and don't want it to get any worse. 

You have to get that volume up to get the floor shaking as it should at a good gig, but we have a lot to learn from music producers in other styles about getting the right vibe without damaging people, in my opinion.


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## vansinn (Jan 14, 2015)

Well well well.. the old plugs? WTF? discussion 
Couple of dudes at a Black Sabbath concert in cph pointed fingers at me, clearly indicating "look at this idiot, he's using plugs". I shrugged my shoulders..

A skydiving chick I used to know back then, already at age 21 had reduced hearing from going to every rock/metal concert she could afford. Always at first row, no plugs.

BTW, I quickly learned to use plugs when skydiving, realizing I heard pink noise after a full day of skydiving. You know, freefall at 180-200 Kpm makes a hellalotta noise in the ears (though the adrenaline rush makes you not detect this).
Same thing with the older generation motorcycle helmets we had, not being fully closed-off under the ears, unlike modern helmets. Created a lotta noise too.

A salsa dance indtructor I used to take lessons from, when going out to meet the night life, used the same custom molded plugs we musicians use. Wise guy!


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## guy in latvia (Jan 14, 2015)

I want to point out another thing about hearing, my aunt had to get ear surgery because she spends almost her entire day talking on the phone, so make sure to keep volumes down and watch out for the simplest ways that damage hearing.


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## ToneLab (Jan 14, 2015)

There are about 100 ways to get tinnitus. Current medical science doesn't really know that much about it. I wish I didn't know so much about it. Don't know how it came on but loud music escalates it big time. Prolonged exposure to loud noise is one of the ways it happens. I also think some people are more genetically predisposed to it. May be a brain wiring thing, might be a formation of the ears or whatever. Some people can get tons of noise exposure and have no effects, others get hearing loss and no tinnitus, others get hearing loss and tinnitus, others get just tinnitus. 

Definitely protect your hearing. It's easy to do and you won't regret it.


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## Lifestalker (Jan 14, 2015)

Since I can remember going to shows, I remember bringing earplugs. I work in a manufacturing environment where earplugs are a requirement, not an option. It sort of became second nature. I wear them at shows, practice(when I was in a band) and in any other situation that they might become handy. I always have a couple pair nearby. 

For live shows, I've found it makes the overall sound much more tolerable. It kind of evens things out and I can understand what's going on to a significant degree. I've had people laugh at me at shows for wearing them as well, but the jokes on them. I understood they were ill-informed. I have two annual hearing tests at work and in the 11 years I've been there, my hearing hasn't changed. Makes me happy.

There's no case against wearing earplugs.


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## BlackMastodon (Jan 15, 2015)

I always find it funny when people laugh at others who have ear plugs at shows. If you get a good pair you can actually hear things more clearly and with a hell of a lot less distortion. But I guess it isn't trve kvlt enough for some people and tinnitus is metal as f**k.


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## protest (Jan 15, 2015)

vansinn said:


> Well well well.. the old plugs? WTF? discussion
> Couple of dudes at a *Black Sabbath concert* in cph pointed fingers at me, clearly indicating "look at this idiot, he's using plugs". I shrugged my shoulders..
> 
> A skydiving chick I used to know back then, already at age 21 had reduced hearing from going to every rock/metal concert she could afford. Always at first row, no plugs.
> ...


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 15, 2015)

Dummies gon' be dummies... 

Tinnitus sucks ass. I had this ridiculous ringing in my ears for like 2 weeks just from going to a show as an audience member. No way I'd wanna be on stage with that without something protecting my ears...


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## will_shred (Jan 15, 2015)

fps said:


> I have had to do a couple of gigs and practices without ear plugs and when I was younger I went to a fair few shows without ear protection. It's only when I go to bed and it's quiet that I notice the tinnitus, bit of a shame though and don't want it to get any worse.
> 
> You have to get that volume up to get the floor shaking as it should at a good gig, but we have a lot to learn from music producers in other styles about getting the right vibe without damaging people, in my opinion.



It just seems like it's the nature of metal music to be very loud. Acoustic drums are loud as hell, amps need to be heard over them, plus it just adds to the atmosphere. 

I mean, if you're going to a metal show you SHOULD know that there will be extreme levels of volume. If you don't ware earplugs and go to shows regularly, whatever. It's your tinnitus/hearing loss not mine. I for one will always protect my ears. People who refuse to ware earplugs will inevitably pay for it, if there are people who honestly don't think that there will be consequences for not wearing ear protection will be in for a very, very rude awakening (eventually). The other guitar player in my band never wares them, neither does our drummer or keyboard player. I don't get how they do it. 

/rant


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jan 15, 2015)

Every time i've worn ear plugs I end up removing them because they are always the cheap ones that really kill the overall sound i'm hearing - what bulb was saying holds true for me. I've been lucky to make it this far without major hearing issues, but it's time to invest in a decent set, what with gigging regularly. At the end of a 4hr+ gig, its obvious my ears are not happy. Good thread!


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## Dusty Chalk (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm sorry, has this joke been made yet? And if it hasn't, WHY NOT?

Okay, here goes.

_(ahem)_

What?


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 15, 2015)




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## Brodessa (Jan 15, 2015)

To OP:

Take your friends to a Swans show.


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## RevDrucifer (Jan 15, 2015)

Goro923 said:


> ^^These are the ones I have, they're actually cheaper than I rememberd, but they've really made a difference for me:
> 
> LivePlugs.com - Hearing protection for music - LivePlugs &ndash; ear plugs for music



My guitarist gave me a set of these and it was the greatest thing. Once my drummer shows up to the practice space, they're in my ears. I sing in my band, my two guitarist are pretty damn loud and even with a decent PA, it can be tough to hear myself over everyone else, but sticking those things in, it made me stop over-singing and pitch was that much better.

These are just earplugs, I can't wait to get in-ears. As for how everything sounds, they do a great job at not cutting too many highs, they really just bring the volume down.

I move them in and out, depending on how much I need to hear my actual voice in the speakers. Sometimes it's hard to tell if I'm making the proper sound with my voice unless I hear in through the PA, mainly screaming.


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## octatoan (Jan 16, 2015)

Tell them you can't hear them calling you ".....", because you're wearing earplugs. Profit.


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## The Mirror (Jan 16, 2015)

I don't give a damn about peoples opinions on that. I've got those nice musician earplugs who actually change the sound instead of just lowering the noise so that you actually hear something in a over-the-top-loud concert.

Best example: HevyDevy in first row in a small-as-hell club. It was awesome but without my earplugs I heard nothing but noise for the club was to small and to stretched to get somewhat of a resonance for a great listening experience without earplugs. Put them in a you can hear something and stand in the first row and having a great evening. twinwin...


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## RV350ALSCYTHE (Jan 16, 2015)

Tinnitus (as has been said already)...end of discussion 

If you're still ignorantly arguing against, then go stand in front of a speaker at the next concert and tell me how your head feels the next five days.

It's all clearly documented and proven, go read a textbook on the function of your ears before you pick the obviously wrong side  They fatigue, become damaged and will never pick up those frequencies the same.

How did this make it to 6 pages??


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## Chi (Jan 16, 2015)

Yeah, like everyone else said. I used to go see bands without earplugs, and started using them last year and dude, it's incredible. No more ringing ears after a concert.

We're musicians, our ability to hear is our most important thing...no arguments against watching your health.


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## fps (Jan 16, 2015)

will_shred said:


> It just seems like it's the nature of metal music to be very loud. Acoustic drums are loud as hell, amps need to be heard over them, plus it just adds to the atmosphere.
> 
> I mean, if you're going to a metal show you SHOULD know that there will be extreme levels of volume. If you don't ware earplugs and go to shows regularly, whatever. It's your tinnitus/hearing loss not mine. I for one will always protect my ears. People who refuse to ware earplugs will inevitably pay for it, if there are people who honestly don't think that there will be consequences for not wearing ear protection will be in for a very, very rude awakening (eventually). The other guitar player in my band never wares them, neither does our drummer or keyboard player. I don't get how they do it.
> 
> /rant



I don't think we're disagreeing. However whenever I see Clutch, I don't have to wear earplugs, and I don't suffer for it the next day. When I saw Meshuggah, again, I didn't need ear plugs and I was fine the next day. So there are things that can be done by the bands to help the audience, I think, in the mixing and sound they use.


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## CTID (Jan 16, 2015)

BlackMastodon said:


> I always find it funny when people laugh at others who have ear plugs at shows. If you get a good pair you can actually hear things more clearly and with a hell of a lot less distortion. But I guess it isn't trve kvlt enough for some people and tinnitus is metal as f**k.



As a fellow Archer-based avatar user, I definitely realize the effects that tinnitus has.

I also have tinnitus and that shit sucks. I wear earplugs to all band rehearsals and gigs that we play (or don't play, really) and it's so awesome to not have to have my ears ringing _more_ than usual because I was an idiot and didn't wear mine. I've tried countless times to convince my bandmates to wear them and none of them have any interest.


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## guitarfan85 (Jan 16, 2015)

Yngwie has been playing right next to a cranked stack wall of marshalls for 30 years with no hearing protection. Ever wonder why his recent albums sound like crap? His muddy production and toilet tone is a result of his damaged hearing over the years.


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