# Blu Guitar Amp-X



## narad (Jan 17, 2020)

New Blu Guitar amp thing:

https://www.bluguitar.com/amp-x/en/

From the guy that brought you "Nanotube™" marketing comes "THE NEURAL-ANALOG-PREAMP™"


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 17, 2020)

Finally! Been waiting for a neural amp since 30 years...


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## laxu (Jan 17, 2020)

Holy shit. I knew they were working on an "Amp 1 with fx" unit but this goes way beyond what I expected. Looks great for everything but fx control unless the knobs under the flap will change function based on what you have selected.


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## maccayoung (Jan 17, 2020)

Ooh, I wonder what the price is going to be? It could be good competition for the Quad Cortex!


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## laxu (Jan 17, 2020)

maccayoung said:


> Ooh, I wonder what the price is going to be? It could be good competition for the Quad Cortex!



Since the Mercury is a bit under 700 euros, the Iridium is about 750, I would guess this might land somewhere around 1000-1400 euros. Hopefully we get some NAMM videos about how it functions and release date soon. My guess would be release somewhere in second half of the year, Q2 at the earliest.

Just based on pics this looks very easy to use and probably has a bunch of hidden functionality behind MIDI like the Amp 1 ME/Iridium. If the fx are good sounding and quick to adjust I could probably replace my Helix + Amp 1 with this. I already like the overdrive and reverb on the Mercury Edition and don't have particularly complex needs for routing, advanced settings etc. This might be the simple "modeler" I have been wanting for years.


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## lewis (Jan 17, 2020)

laxu said:


> Since the Mercury is a bit under 700 euros, the Iridium is about 750, I would guess this might land somewhere around 1000-1400 euros. Hopefully we get some NAMM videos about how it functions and release date soon. My guess would be release somewhere in second half of the year, Q2 at the earliest.
> 
> Just based on pics this looks very easy to use and probably has a bunch of hidden functionality behind MIDI like the Amp 1 ME/Iridium. If the fx are good sounding and quick to adjust I could probably replace my Helix + Amp 1 with this. I already like the overdrive and reverb on the Mercury Edition and don't have particularly complex needs for routing, advanced settings etc. This might be the simple "modeler" I have been wanting for years.



Only thing is the built in reverbs arent really usable. They are too subtle even on full. If this new unit has a similar problem with its effects - then i dont think this would ever replace an amp1 + HX Effects setup


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## Backsnack (Jan 17, 2020)

laxu said:


> Since the Mercury is a bit under 700 euros, the Iridium is about 750, I would guess this might land somewhere around 1000-1400 euros. Hopefully we get some NAMM videos about how it functions and release date soon. My guess would be release somewhere in second half of the year, Q2 at the earliest.
> 
> Just based on pics this looks very easy to use and probably has a bunch of hidden functionality behind MIDI like the Amp 1 ME/Iridium. If the fx are good sounding and quick to adjust I could probably replace my Helix + Amp 1 with this. I already like the overdrive and reverb on the Mercury Edition and don't have particularly complex needs for routing, advanced settings etc. This might be the simple "modeler" I have been wanting for years.


If this new "analog-x" preamp can really maintain the analog feel of the Amp1 preamps, color me quite interested.



lewis said:


> Only thing is the built in reverbs arent really usable. They are too subtle even on full. If this new unit has a similar problem with its effects - then i dont think this would ever replace an amp1 + HX Effects setup


Here's hoping he'll take a bit more expansive approach to delays and reverbs. I agree with you, though the Amp1's have built-in reverb, Thomas Blug seems to assume people will add in their own pedals of those varieties anyways. It's almost like it's there as a backup in case you can only bring the Amp1 with you without anything else.


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## laxu (Jan 17, 2020)

lewis said:


> Only thing is the built in reverbs arent really usable. They are too subtle even on full. If this new unit has a similar problem with its effects - then i dont think this would ever replace an amp1 + HX Effects setup



On the contrary I actually like that the reverb is subtle. Could it have more adjustment range to the extreme? Absolutely, but I like that it is something that adds to the sound rather than overpowers it like some really splashy long tank spring reverbs. The real Accutronics reverb on my Bogner is worse to me because of its long decay which gives it a very narrow range where it sounds good until it gets into surf guitar territory.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 17, 2020)

maccayoung said:


> Ooh, I wonder what the price is going to be? It could be good competition for the Quad Cortex!


That's not even close - Blug uses a solid state preamp that's tweaked with DAs to some extent, maybe some mltiplexing of alternate circuits involved. However, the complexity of this approach must increase so rapidly that you probably can't have more than 5-10 "base sounds" that are tweakable in a number of parameters. Similar to the Vox AV combos...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 17, 2020)

2020

Everything was neural


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## GunpointMetal (Jan 17, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> 2020
> 
> Everything was neural


But is it biomimetic?


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 17, 2020)

GunpointMetal said:


> But is it biomimetic?


That so Terminator 2...


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## Shask (Jan 17, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> 2020
> 
> Everything was neural


And had to have a color touchscreen.


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## laxu (Jan 17, 2020)

Lemonbaby said:


> That's not even close - Blug uses a solid state preamp that's tweaked with DAs to some extent, maybe some mltiplexing of alternate circuits involved. However, the complexity of this approach must increase so rapidly that you probably can't have more than 5-10 "base sounds" that are tweakable in a number of parameters. Similar to the Vox AV combos...



Most amps are derived from the same base sounds though and Blug has managed to get very similar sounds out of just the Amp 1 Mercury which is probably nowhere near as adjustable as the Amp X. But in any case personally I don't care as long as it provides the kind of great sounds and feel you can already get out of the Mercury and Iridium.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 17, 2020)

I'm more interested in his "Dynamic IRs". It's true what he says, the IRs we have now doesnt respond when you increase the virtual amp's volume. How he does it, will be quite interesting.


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## Se7enHeaven (Jan 17, 2020)

Of course this comes out after I get the AMP1 Iridium and BluBox, lol


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## lewis (Jan 17, 2020)

Se7enHeaven said:


> Of course this comes out after I get the AMP1 Iridium and BluBox, lol


This /\

I hate Namm haha


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## Backsnack (Jan 17, 2020)

Se7enHeaven said:


> Of course this comes out after I get the AMP1 Iridium and BluBox, lol


Depending on the quality of the internal effects, I may still be only interested in the Amp1 IE so I can pair it with an HXFX. Kind of like @lewis ’s setup.



laxu said:


> Most amps are derived from the same base sounds though and Blug has managed to get very similar sounds out of just the Amp 1 Mercury which is probably nowhere near as adjustable as the Amp X. But in any case personally I don't care as long as it provides the kind of great sounds and feel you can already get out of the Mercury and Iridium.


I’m skeptical of the new preamp design for now and want to hear some demos.


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## Backsnack (Jan 17, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I'm more interested in his "Dynamic IRs". It's true what he says, the IRs we have now doesnt respond when you increase the virtual amp's volume. How he does it, will be quite interesting.


We can always count on Blug being quite smart and a good designer.


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## Backsnack (Jan 17, 2020)

laxu said:


> On the contrary I actually like that the reverb is subtle. Could it have more adjustment range to the extreme? Absolutely, but I like that it is something that adds to the sound rather than overpowers it like some really splashy long tank spring reverbs. The real Accutronics reverb on my Bogner is worse to me because of its long decay which gives it a very narrow range where it sounds good until it gets into surf guitar territory.


Also, if he can get some nice-sounding analog style delays like tape and BBD that sound close enough to Line6 and my favorite pedals ....


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## Se7enHeaven (Jan 18, 2020)

From Thomas: 
"You have to be patient. This is only a study... a fully working unit we’ll see at the end of this year."


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## Backsnack (Jan 18, 2020)

Se7enHeaven said:


> From Thomas:
> "You have to be patient. This is only a study... a fully working unit we’ll see at the end of this year."


So it’s going to be more like 2021 until it’s released at full production? That’s a shitty long time to keep people waiting.


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## DudeManBrother (Jan 18, 2020)

How dare he be honest about the timeframe of his development! Tom, get with the times and release a silhouette photo to announce your upcoming announcement. Then before you even announce it: start a preorder campaign.


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## Backsnack (Jan 18, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> How dare he be honest about the timeframe of his development! Tom, get with the times and release a silhouette photo to announce your upcoming announcement. Then before you even announce it: start a preorder campaign.


Just let me be bitter that I have to wait a year for this awesome thing.


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## narad (Jan 18, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> Just let me be bitter that I have to wait a year for this awesome thing.



Why not just get a helix? I'm kind of lost as to why people are getting super excited about this over on TGP. Of course, that's more like 5 guys making 30 posts on the subject, but still... what's new here?


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

narad said:


> Why not just get a helix? I'm kind of lost as to why people are getting super excited about this over on TGP. Of course, that's more like 5 guys making 30 posts on the subject, but still... what's new here?


It's fundamentally different from a Helix because the signal path for anything related to the amps is entirely analogue. There is no digital amp modeling whatsoever.


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

Here's a decently long interview with Blug at NAMM about the unit. He says he expects it will be priced around $1500-1600.

He also mentions the word "buy" when talking about new amp Blugprints and possibly some of the effects. Hopefully those will be reasonably priced. Tone chasing is always fun, but having all the Mercury and Iridium sounds out of the box will already give you 8 different preamp channels to play.


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## narad (Jan 19, 2020)

Eh, I don't know. I heard some good demos of the older tech, but I don't see how a pure analog path can be faithful to the amount of amps necessary to make this a worthwhile competitor to digital stuff in that price range.


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

narad said:


> Eh, I don't know. I heard some good demos of the older tech, but I don't see how a pure analog path can be faithful to the amount of amps necessary to make this a worthwhile competitor to digital stuff in that price range.


Which of the digital units in that price range also include a 100 watt power amp?


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## narad (Jan 19, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> Which of the digital units in that price range also include a 100 watt power amp?



By 2021? I imagine it'll pretty comparable price-wise to chuck in one of those class D pedal poweramps. It'd be different if we were talking tube poweramp -- then I could get behind it more.


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## c7spheres (Jan 19, 2020)

This looks awesome. Just watched the video. No sounds yet, but appraently it's all analog and he discovered a way of using the nano-tubes to digitally control down to a component level a kind of virtual soldering to create a new analog circuit with digital control to basiclly recreate almost any tube tone. So it sounds like digital control is actually switching in and out components to create new analog paths.
- Also has effects in it too!
- Oh my god! it has a built in tube power amp too!
- Direct outs and also auxilary power supply for external pedals. Even extendable wings to attach stuff to it.
- He says a mic'd up speaker is already a thing of the past.
- Says this product will not be outdated for at least 10 years.
- Says it's possible but no promise of a computer interface, but it will connect to website for updates via USB.
- Foot pedals and button are customizable including parameters etc.
- It has midi too!
- The front panel flips up and revels more buttons and an oled screen for more control.
- I want this. Says somewhere around double the price of a M1.


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

narad said:


> By 2021? I imagine it'll pretty comparable price-wise to chuck in one of those class D pedal poweramps. It'd be different if we were talking tube poweramp -- then I could get behind it more.


For a fair comparison: a PowerStage 170 is $400, so that would increase the price of your whole setup of a Helix or something comprable by another 25%.

To be fair, I'm somewhat skeptical regarding the design of the new preamps and how it's going to work. However, considering what Origin Effects accomplished with the RevivalDrive series of pedals, it doesn't seem impossible. But I'm also interested in this for the reason you are not: because it's NOT just another modeler. Blug is a smart designer, and he has a huge legacy of successful products containing his designs for 20-something years at Hughes & Kettner.

Furthermore, regarding a tube power amp: it's generally not recommended to use a tube power amp with a modeler since you want a power amp with a neutral tonality.


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

c7spheres said:


> This looks awesome. Just watched the video. No sounds yet, but appraently it's all analog and he discovered a way of using the nano-tubes to digitally control down to a component level a kind of virtual soldering to create a new analog circuit with digital control to basiclly recreate almost any tube tone. So it sounds like digital control is actually switching in and out components to create new analog paths.
> - Also has effects in it too!
> - Oh my god! it has a built in tube power amp too!
> - Direct outs and also auxilary power supply for external pedals. Even extendable wings to attach stuff to it.
> ...



Repost on that video, lol.

It's not quite accurate to call it a tube power amp. It's a nano-tube driven Class D power amp that also has some customizability under the hood to be able to change the sag behavior to match with whatever preamps are being used.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 19, 2020)

c7spheres said:


> This looks awesome. Just watched the video. No sounds yet, but appraently it's all analog and he discovered a way of using the nano-tubes to digitally control down to a component level a kind of virtual soldering to create a new analog circuit with digital control to basiclly recreate almost any tube tone. So it sounds like digital control is actually switching in and out components to create new analog paths.


Aaawww, finally man! The one product that's going to replace all others known to mankind, because it does everything better. Plus: IT'S ALL ANALOG!


Wondering how he's going to promote the next device after this one in 2024 though.


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## c7spheres (Jan 19, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> Repost on that video, lol.
> 
> It's not quite accurate to call it a tube power amp. It's a nano-tube driven Class D power amp that also has some customizability under the hood to be able to change the sag behavior to match with whatever preamps are being used.





Lemonbaby said:


> Aaawww, finally man! The one product that's going to replace all others known to mankind, because it does everything better. Plus: IT'S ALL ANALOG!
> 
> 
> Wondering how he's going to promote the next device after this one in 2024 though.



Well you went and jinxed it now  Now we gotta wait til 2024 for the magic box. It really does look nice for an all in one unit though. The more I think about these though i just keep coming back to the fact that I just don't need all the options. I got my channels and effect that work for me. I just like the idea of it being in a smaller format than a big rack of stuff. Sorry for the video repost.


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## laxu (Jan 19, 2020)

narad said:


> Why not just get a helix? I'm kind of lost as to why people are getting super excited about this over on TGP. Of course, that's more like 5 guys making 30 posts on the subject, but still... what's new here?



I own a Helix and Amp 1 Mercury Edition. To be fair I could probably replicate a lot of the Amp X with this setup by running the Helix preamps into the Amp 1 poweramp for the tones that are not already done by the Amp 1 preamp.

The things that put the Amp X on my wishlist are something like:

Knobs! There's basically a knob for controlling most of the parameters of the amp and fx directly. I haven't had this in an amp since the Yamaha DG80 20 years ago. Most modelers have at best 5-6 knobs to adjust settings and plenty of menuing to get to tweak those in the first place. This should be much faster to operate on the fly when you just want to tweak a bit for the room or for the guitar you are using.
It doesn't go completely bonkers on what it offers. I don't need 50+ amp sims, 1000+ cabs and every variation of effects ever made with a huge pile of advanced parameters. This will make it more straightforward to operate.
Built-in poweramp. Sure, you can hook up a poweramp to any modeler but to have one that is specifically tuned to work in tandem with the preamps is valuable and you don't need to add a rack unit or some pedal to get this functionality.
It's analog except for digital effects and control. Now I don't care too much about analog vs digital, but being analog does avoid any aliasing issues for example. Some of the fx will also be analog so I guess Blug has deemed that those sound best as analog versions.
It's a Thomas Blug design. He has a great ear for tone and I am seriously impressed by how well thought out the Amp 1 Mercury is. It is super simple to use but still surprisingly versatile and has a lot of the things missing in most amps like MIDI control, built-in attenuator etc.
It's smaller than the Helix. The Helix Floor is really excessively big IMO and I could do with half the size most of the time as I don't use the expression pedal a ton and it has a pile of I/O that is of no use to me.
And as said, it's not just another modeler. Even if the Neural DSP Quad Cortex is exciting for it's modern user interface, I find that to be the only truly interesting aspect about it. It's yet another device with mainly a direct recording/FRFR focus whereas the Amp X seems more designed to go with real cabs, on stage, with the kind of fast control that is required in those situations.


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## axxessdenied (Jan 19, 2020)

I tried the BluGuitar stuff at namm and it sounded like an absolute turd. I was interested in them but not anymore.


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## Backsnack (Jan 19, 2020)

axxessdenied said:


> I tried the BluGuitar stuff at namm and it sounded like an absolute turd. I was interested in them but not anymore.


A turd? Really?


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## axxessdenied (Jan 19, 2020)

Yeah. I dunno if the Friedman guitar I was playing had something jacked with the way it was wired up but I just couldn't really dial in anything I enjoyed. Maybe it was because it was through headphones. But, a lot of booths had headphone set up and it was easy to dial in some decent tones while checking out other stuff. It was the Iridium edition I was playing.


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## Backsnack (Jan 22, 2020)

laxu said:


> I own a Helix and Amp 1 Mercury Edition. To be fair I could probably replicate a lot of the Amp X with this setup by running the Helix preamps into the Amp 1 poweramp for the tones that are not already done by the Amp 1 preamp.
> 
> The things that put the Amp X on my wishlist are something like:
> 
> ...


Agreed on the analogue vs. digital thing ... basically just that Blug seems to know really well how to design great-sounding preamps.

Also, for a blend of modern & classic amp sounds and effects: pairing an Amp1 Iridium Edition, a RevivalDrive Compact, and an HX Effects is the setup that I'm strongly considering. All of that would come in at a similar price point (minus a few additional miscellaneous mainstay pedals in my collection) to this Amp-X and could arguably have more functionality and likely a wider variety of effects. The downside is that as a size comparison, the pedalboard will be larger than this unit.


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## Bearitone (Jan 22, 2020)

This is the only floor unit that has interested me i think ever.

A metal oriented analog floor unit with multi-effects and what appears to be a decent power section? Fuck yeah.


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## Backsnack (Jan 22, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> This is the only floor unit that has interested me i think ever.
> 
> A metal oriented analog floor unit with multi-effects and what appears to be a decent power section? Fuck yeah.


It's not just metal, because it contains all the preamps from the Amp1 Mercury Edition as well. That one covers vintage (think JTM45) to modern Marshall (JCM800) sounds. So out of the box it comes with 8 preamps/channels to choose from.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 22, 2020)

Can you expand any of the Blu Amps by using another SS Power Amp?


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## Backsnack (Jan 22, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Can you expand any of the Blu Amps by using another SS Power Amp?


You could feasibly plug the recording out into a power amp. At that point it's acting like a multichannel preamp.


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## Element0s (Jan 22, 2020)

Another great potential option for my imagined tiny touring rig. Looking forward to seeing this develop.


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## laxu (Jan 23, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Can you expand any of the Blu Amps by using another SS Power Amp?



You can always take the signal out of the fx loop and run that into another poweramp.


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## Bearitone (Jan 23, 2020)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Can you expand any of the Blu Amps by using another SS Power Amp?



You wouldn’t be expanding anything. You would bypassing the Blu poweramp in place of another one. Kind of pointless unless you don’t actually like the sound of the Blu’s own power section.


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## Backsnack (Jan 23, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> You wouldn’t be expanding anything. You would bypassing the Blu poweramp in place of another one. Kind of pointless unless you don’t actually like the sound of the Blu’s own power section.


Good point.
@MASS DEFECT the Amp1 will not do stereo if that’s what you’re looking for. It would just be more mono signal.


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## Wolfhorsky (Jan 23, 2020)

The question is: will it sound better than my HX stomp and PS170 combo? I doubt there will be noticeable upgrade of the quality that is worth the upcharge


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## c7spheres (Jan 23, 2020)

Although this thing looks incredible and probably will be, especially for small footprint, I'm sticking with my old rig. Watching the video again I picked up this time that it's all surface mount tech. That stuff scares me. It's always hard or expensive to get repaired or find parts. I know, I always got this repair thing going on in my head and it's not justified really, but I like the fact that "normal" amps like Boogies and such use readily available compenents and most techs (sometimes even myself) can repair them. There's something about that that I like. There just already proven winners that have stood the test of time. So I'll probably still want one of these when they become available : )


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## Bearitone (Jan 23, 2020)

Wolfhorsky said:


> The question is: will it sound better than my HX stomp and PS170 combo? I doubt there will be noticeable upgrade of the quality that is worth the upcharge



Idk why but i have high hopes for the power section of this thing. I liked the PS170 when i owned it but, it didn’t blow me away.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

@laxu @lewis @Se7enHeaven

I'm still pretty excited for the release of this thing next year. I've been sending some emails back and forth to Bluguitar asking about planned features. I thought I'd share some things I've learned, some of which may be specific to my nerdy desires for using this with additional pedals.


It will have a built-in tuner and utilize the light rings along the footswitches for the needle/strobe.

The Amp X wings and expression pedal will need to be purchased separately (not surprising, but I checked anyways).

There will not have risers or high enough feet to accommodate a TRS-MIDI converter box to be mounted underneath the unit for external pedals to be used with the device. (Can probably figure out a DIY solution though, so not a big deal).
Each amp channel/BlugPrint will have a much deeper set of parameters for adjusting tonal options than the tone stack side knobs on the regular Amp1 models.
No looper effect/function, so you'll have to bring your own looper pedal if you enjoy doing that.

The Amp X will send out PC messages to external pedals. CC messaging (like with the expression pedal) might be added at a later date after release.
*The analogue post-EQ settings can be saved per preset, unlike the regular Amp1 models!*


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## lewis (Apr 7, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> @laxu @lewis @Se7enHeaven
> 
> I'm still pretty excited for the release of this thing next year. I've been sending some emails back and forth to Bluguitar asking about planned features. I thought I'd share some things I've learned, some of which may be specific to my nerdy desires for using this with additional pedals.
> 
> ...



Thats a great list of features!!!
Thanks for Sharing dude!

Im going to hold off on potentially adding this, until Ive used my Iridium live to gauge if this can hang with the big boys or not.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

lewis said:


> Thats a great list of features!!!
> Thanks for Sharing dude!
> 
> Im going to hold off on potentially adding this, until Ive used my Iridium live to gauge if this can hang with the big boys or not.


Let us know how it goes.

My whole Amp1 Iridium pedalboard purchase got put on hold for a while mostly due to the current pandemic situation. I figure I might as well wait for the Amp X!


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## laxu (Apr 7, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> @laxu @lewis @Se7enHeaven
> 
> I'm still pretty excited for the release of this thing next year. I've been sending some emails back and forth to Bluguitar asking about planned features. I thought I'd share some things I've learned, some of which may be specific to my nerdy desires for using this with additional pedals.
> 
> ...



This looks like it will be a real dream unit with everything you need and nothing more. Personally I haven't minded not being able to save the EQ knob settings, the Amp 1 ME has been designed really well so all channels sound like they belong together no matter where you point the knobs.

I've recently found out that the Amp 1 ME poweramp is also good for amplifying digital modelers. Running my Helix full amp models through it gives similar results to what I got from the Fryette Power Station 2. That's going to give me a lot of fun stuff to play with while waiting for the Amp X. I've also built a wet/dry rig out of my Bogner GF45 SL + 4x10 and the Amp 1 ME + 1x12 and that sounds just massive.


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## lewis (Apr 7, 2020)

laxu said:


> This looks like it will be a real dream unit with everything you need and nothing more. Personally I haven't minded not being able to save the EQ knob settings, the Amp 1 ME has been designed really well so all channels sound like they belong together no matter where you point the knobs.
> 
> I've recently found out that the Amp 1 ME poweramp is also good for amplifying digital modelers. Running my Helix full amp models through it gives similar results to what I got from the Fryette Power Station 2. That's going to give me a lot of fun stuff to play with while waiting for the Amp X. I've also built a wet/dry rig out of my Bogner GF45 SL + 4x10 and the Amp 1 ME + 1x12 and that sounds just massive.


ive fallen in love with tone demos of boosted old jcm800s, does the mercury get close to that? or will my iridium be closer?

also quite interested to hear what differences, if any, the amp x has over the iridium


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## laxu (Apr 7, 2020)

lewis said:


> ive fallen in love with tone demos of boosted old jcm800s, does the mercury get close to that? or will my iridium be closer?
> 
> also quite interested to hear what differences, if any, the amp x has over the iridium



The Amp X should have both ME and Iridium sounds in it on release.

I haven't tried the Iridium but I would expect that there is a good amount of overlap for JCM800 tones in them. The Mercury does it with ease on the Classic channel.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

lewis said:


> ive fallen in love with tone demos of boosted old jcm800s, does the mercury get close to that? or will my iridium be closer?
> 
> also quite interested to hear what differences, if any, the amp x has over the iridium





laxu said:


> The Amp X should have both ME and Iridium sounds in it on release.
> 
> I haven't tried the Iridium but I would expect that there is a good amount of overlap for JCM800 tones in them. The Mercury does it with ease on the Classic channel.


@laxu you’re right.
The Amp X will ship with all of the channels of the Iridium and Mercury editions. Any others to follow seem like they will need to be purchased, pricing info hasn’t been released yet.


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## lewis (Apr 7, 2020)

laxu said:


> The Amp X should have both ME and Iridium sounds in it on release.
> 
> I haven't tried the Iridium but I would expect that there is a good amount of overlap for JCM800 tones in them. The Mercury does it with ease on the Classic channel.


damn im going to need to look into the Mercury for cheap then. With my effects and pedalboards setup I likely won't need the AmpX really. Given I already have the HX effects etc


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

I’m also hoping Blug will include a nice-sounding tape delay in the unit.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

lewis said:


> damn im going to need to look into the Mercury for cheap then. With my effects and pedalboards setup I likely won't need the AmpX really. Given I already have the HX effects etc



Probably won’t be for a while, if at all. The last one I saw on Reverb was listed for $600+. They seem to hold their resale value pretty well.

You could always just sell all of it and start over again.


----------



## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

My original plan was to do an Amp1 IE, HX Effects, and RevivalDrive Compact. The Amp X will cover all that ground in terms of amp distortion, but will probably have fewer effects than the HX.


----------



## lewis (Apr 7, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> Probably won’t be for a while, if at all. The last one I saw on Reverb was listed for $600+. They seem to hold their resale value pretty well.
> 
> You could always just sell all of it and start over again.


just seen 2 on FB marketplace. One is £350 but taking offers


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

lewis said:


> just seen 2 on FB marketplace. One is £350 but taking offers


Not bad at all.


----------



## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

https://www.bluguitar.com/amp-x/en/

for the marketing stuff


----------



## jco5055 (Apr 7, 2020)

Oh man,

I own a traditional head (MI Audio Revelation) and 4x12, but I've been thinking about selling all that to go for a much smaller overall package. The Amp X has DEFINITELY peaked my interest, but now I'm at a conundrum (as the other main gear/setup I was thinking was an Axe Fx 3).

Do I:
1) Get an AMP1 Iridium and Blubox (and a 1x12, either by them or a different company) now, probably make do without an effects processor/box etc, and when the AMPX comes out either sell my AMP1 then or go a different/superior route like Fractal if it turns out the AMPX isn't as good (so saving money short term/until the AMPX comes out)

2) Get the Axe FX 3 now (most expensive but also objectively best modeler out there), and if the AMP X turns out to be superior sell the Axe, but if it's not I keep it (so chance that I actually save money, since option 1 I would spend the $$ on the AMP1 first assuming the Axe is superior imo to AMPX).

Decisions, decisions....


----------



## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

jco5055 said:


> Oh man,
> 
> I own a traditional head (MI Audio Revelation) and 4x12, but I've been thinking about selling all that to go for a much smaller overall package. The Amp X has DEFINITELY peaked my interest, but now I'm at a conundrum (as the other main gear/setup I was thinking was an Axe Fx 3).
> 
> ...


Ultimately I think it’s apples-oranges comparison since the Fractal is a fully digital modeling platform with a gazillion amps to choose from. The Amp X will give you way fewer amp options by comparison.

You could always buy the Amp1 Iridium to test it out. If you don’t like it, just return it within the return policy window. Sweetwater gives you 30 days, I believe.


----------



## jco5055 (Apr 7, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> Ultimately I think it’s apples-oranges comparison since the Fractal is a fully digital modeling platform with a gazillion amps to choose from. The Amp X will give you way fewer amp options by comparison.
> 
> You could always buy the Amp1 Iridium to test it out. If you don’t like it, just return it within the return policy window. Sweetwater gives you 30 days, I believe.



Have they said about how many amps will be included in the AMPX? I don't need a ton at all, if anything I like the idea of maybe having idk like 5 amps to choose from and then having effects and such.


----------



## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

jco5055 said:


> Have they said about how many amps will be included in the AMPX? I don't need a ton at all, if anything I like the idea of maybe having idk like 5 amps to choose from and then having effects and such.


Just a few posts back:

All the amps/channels from each of the Amp1 models. More can be added later, unknown whether or not they will cost money or be free.

So that means you’ll effectively have 8 channels to choose from out of the box.


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## jco5055 (Apr 7, 2020)

gotcha, I had heard it would have all them, I guess it's unknown how many total they will have...so basically it's hard to tell if the AMP1 is the true like "guarantee" of "oh I didn't think the AMP1 was the best thing i've ever heard so I'll skip the AMPX" or not.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

laxu said:


> The Amp X should have both ME and Iridium sounds in it on release.
> 
> I haven't tried the Iridium but I would expect that there is a good amount of overlap for JCM800 tones in them. The Mercury does it with ease on the Classic channel.


You’re probably right. My guess is Blug tweaked the sound of the IE to have less or none of that power amp sag. IE no brown sound.


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## Backsnack (Apr 7, 2020)

jco5055 said:


> gotcha, I had heard it would have all them, I guess it's unknown how many total they will have...so basically it's hard to tell if the AMP1 is the true like "guarantee" of "oh I didn't think the AMP1 was the best thing i've ever heard so I'll skip the AMPX" or not.


It’s pretty safe to assume that Blug will delve further into some classic amps like Voxes and Fenders since those are the other iconic classic amps that round out his assortment of Marshalls.

I’m sure if enough people ask for a print of a certain amp he’ll make it happen.


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## jco5055 (Apr 7, 2020)

I'll probably do as you suggest and try the Iridium out, since it's way easier to return/ship something like that as opposed to a head if I don't like it


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## lewis (Apr 8, 2020)

jco5055 said:


> I'll probably do as you suggest and try the Iridium out, since it's way easier to return/ship something like that as opposed to a head if I don't like it


I don't think you will be disappointed, they sound incredible.
Just remember if you are going direct without a cab also connected, plug a dummy plug into a speaker output (like a 1/4 inch headphone adaptor) at the same time. Makes the direct tone sound infinitely better.

If you are using a real cab, you won't need to worry


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## Backsnack (Apr 23, 2020)

@lewis @laxu 

This is basically the "other" version of the rig I'm thinking about if I don't go the Amp-X route. What do you think? 24 x 16 board with a flip top so I can put other drive pedals, power supplies, etc. underneath. What do you think? The unlabeled black pedal is a clone of a Hoof Fuzz.


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## laxu (Apr 24, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> @lewis @laxu
> 
> This is basically the "other" version of the rig I'm thinking about if I don't go the Amp-X route. What do you think? 24 x 16 board with a flip top so I can put other drive pedals, power supplies, etc. underneath. What do you think? The unlabeled black pedal is a clone of a Hoof Fuzz.



That's an impressive rig that is surely going to work out. I think the Revival Drive is the only one I'd question as I don't feel it's particularly necessary with the BluGuitar. But then again I'm more of an amp gain guy in the first place.

At least on release the Amp X doesn't seem to do anything more than Mercury and Iridium sounds in one box plus effects of course. I'm still contemplating if I want to get one as I currently have my Marshall, Fender and Vox type tones well covered with my Bogner GF45 SL and Victory VC35. I love the gigbag friendly size of the BluGuitar Amp1 ME but not sure if I will keep it long term since the Bogner does most of the same tones. After this coronavirus thing is over I may have to go try the Iridium as I don't have anything that does super tight high gain tones.


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## lewis (Apr 24, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> @lewis @laxu
> 
> This is basically the "other" version of the rig I'm thinking about if I don't go the Amp-X route. What do you think? 24 x 16 board with a flip top so I can put other drive pedals, power supplies, etc. underneath. What do you think? The unlabeled black pedal is a clone of a Hoof Fuzz.



Looks sweet dude.

What site did you use to create the board?
I couldnt find one that offered the Iridium version.


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## Backsnack (Apr 24, 2020)

lewis said:


> Looks sweet dude.
> 
> What site did you use to create the board?
> I couldnt find one that offered the Iridium version.


I did a quick and dirty photoshop of the stock images over some of the templates.

pedalayground.com seems to be the best site with the biggest variety of pedal templates.


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## Backsnack (Apr 24, 2020)

laxu said:


> That's an impressive rig that is surely going to work out. I think the Revival Drive is the only one I'd question as I don't feel it's particularly necessary with the BluGuitar. But then again I'm more of an amp gain guy in the first place.
> 
> At least on release the Amp X doesn't seem to do anything more than Mercury and Iridium sounds in one box plus effects of course. I'm still contemplating if I want to get one as I currently have my Marshall, Fender and Vox type tones well covered with my Bogner GF45 SL and Victory VC35. I love the gigbag friendly size of the BluGuitar Amp1 ME but not sure if I will keep it long term since the Bogner does most of the same tones. After this coronavirus thing is over I may have to go try the Iridium as I don't have anything that does super tight high gain tones.


The reason for the RD pedal is to cover the more classic territory whrre the Amp1 IE doesn’t go. Think Vox AC30 and Fender Twin sort of distortion sounds.
It’s much more than an “overdrive,” really a vintage amp chameleon in a box. I’m not as much of a classic amp sort of person, but it will give me the ability to experiment with a lot of different sounds easily.

I’m trying to weigh the difference of Amp1 IE, RD compact, Mooer Radar, Hood fuzz, and midi controller as a lumped cost compared to the upcoming Amp-X, because all those would effectively be replaced by the one device. The cost between the two choices should be roughly the same. Still some unknowns since the Amp-X isn’t out yet and the usual round of YouTube reviewers haven’t gotten their hands on it yet.

I still want to use all the Alexander pedals, Eccos, and Drop together with either setup regardless.


----------



## laxu (Apr 24, 2020)

Backsnack said:


> I’m trying to weigh the difference of Amp1 IE, RD compact, Mooer Radar, Hood fuzz, and midi controller as a lumped cost compared to the upcoming Amp-X, because all those would effectively be replaced by the one device. The cost between the two choices should be roughly the same. Still some unknowns since the Amp-X isn’t out yet and the usual round of YouTube reviewers haven’t gotten their hands on it yet.



I would just wait, the Amp X is out probably around November at the earliest based on when the Amp 1 models were released, more likely only around NAMM 2021 in January since it's a more complicated unit. I have no doubts it will be a great device, Blug knows his stuff.

You could consider the Line6 HX Effects to pair with the Iridium. It would do the MIDI controller stuff and has tons of good fx while being about the same size as the Iridium. Owning a Helix Floor is why I am having some second thoughts about the Amp X, I feel like I have most of what it offers already.


----------



## Backsnack (Apr 24, 2020)

laxu said:


> I would just wait, the Amp X is out probably around November at the earliest based on when the Amp 1 models were released, more likely only around NAMM 2021 in January since it's a more complicated unit. I have no doubts it will be a great device, Blug knows his stuff.
> 
> You could consider the Line6 HX Effects to pair with the Iridium. It would do the MIDI controller stuff and has tons of good fx while being about the same size as the Iridium. Owning a Helix Floor is why I am having some second thoughts about the Amp X, I feel like I have most of what it offers already.


The HX is awesome, no doubt. But since I have the handful of Alexander’s that I already like, it seems somewhat redundant in terms of the delay, reverb, and modulation effects. But the convenience factor of even just all the utility effects like eqs, comps, boosts, IR loader, etc. even makes the price worth it. Especially when they’re like $400 used these days.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 29, 2021)

Any updates on this? Still seems like it's reveal will be mid-2022.


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## laxu (Dec 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Any updates on this? Still seems like it's reveal will be mid-2022.



I don't think we will get anything until summer NAMM 2022. The latest info is in some Q&A livestream on BluGuitar's channel but it didn't bring anything new really.


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## Backsnack (Dec 30, 2021)

At this point I’m with @laxu ’s sentiments that it’s going to have a hard time winning me over with my combo of an Amp1 Iridium and HX Stomp XL. (I upgraded my previous HX Effects.)

This combo sounds so good and it’s ridiculously versatile. The more I’m learning the Helix universe I’m finding I can get rid of extra pedals I thought I needed.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 30, 2021)

Backsnack said:


> At this point I’m with @laxu ’s sentiments that it’s going to have a hard time winning me over with my combo of an Amp1 Iridium and HX Stomp XL. (I upgraded my previous HX Effects.)
> 
> This combo sounds so good and it’s ridiculously versatile. The more I’m learning the Helix universe I’m finding I can get rid of extra pedals I thought I needed.



The Helix is indeed a great platform. I never sold my POD GO after getting my Axe 3 because it's still a fucking great sounding unit that I can bring anywheres where I feel like my Axe wouldn't be the best place to bring.  

While I'm sure the amps in the Amp X are gonna kick ass, I mostly want to know how the effects will be. If the delays and modulations are good, then I'm sold. I just hope they aren't an afterthought. 
...Did Thomas have anything to do with digital amps like the zenTera and the effects section of the Blade series?


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## Backsnack (Dec 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Helix is indeed a great platform. I never sold my POD GO after getting my Axe 3 because it's still a fucking great sounding unit that I can bring anywheres where I feel like my Axe wouldn't be the best place to bring.
> 
> While I'm sure the amps in the Amp X are gonna kick ass, I mostly want to know how the effects will be. If the delays and modulations are good, then I'm sold. I just hope they aren't an afterthought.
> ...Did Thomas have anything to do with digital amps like the zenTera and the effects section of the Blade series?


I’m sure Blug is hiring good people to help with designing great effects and he’s probably going to copy his favorite pedals he already uses. He’s too meticulous for anything to be an afterthought. The great sound of the Amp1 Iridium is a testament to that since he’s not a metal guy at all.

I'm pretty sure he worked at Hughes & Kettner for a while, but I don't know if he was involved with the ZenTerra.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 30, 2021)

Backsnack said:


> I’m sure Blug is hiring good people to help with designing great effects and he’s probably going to copy his favorite pedals he already uses. He’s too meticulous for anything to be an afterthought. The great sound of the Amp1 Iridium is a testament to that since he’s not a metal guy at all.
> 
> I'm pretty sure he worked at Hughes & Kettner for a while, but I don't know if he was involved with the ZenTerra.



He was there since 2014, so yeah it does seem like he had a hand with that stuff.


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## GreatGreen (Dec 30, 2021)

So this whole product feels like it's being designed as a platform for amp manufacturer collaboration, like the Synergy system... but instead of separate Synergy modules, all the circuitry already comes wired up in the unit. So, manufacturers will simply get to pick out their favorite internal component routes, slap on a fancy name and amplifier graphic in the desktop app, then charge users to access it... you know, instead of users being able to design their own circuits themselves using components that already exist in the $1,000+ product they just bought.

I like the tech and the BluGuitar stuff seems innovative and cool, and it's been shown time and time again to sound great, but this puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Basically it feels like I'm being sold a 3 channel amp with 2 channels locked behind a paywall I can access for an additional fee. No thanks.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 30, 2021)

I just hope this isn't another Quad Cortex situation. I trust that Thomas wouldn't overdeliver, though.


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## Backsnack (Dec 30, 2021)

GreatGreen said:


> Interesting concept. Kind of like a video game console but for guitar amp circuits.
> 
> In Youtube interviews, one of the first things the designer talks about is the ability to collaborate with other amp manufacturers and a system that allows royalty payments for them if they design a circuit to be sold in his marketplace.
> 
> ...


That level of granular control to make your own circuits you're talking about is a level of technical ability that very few people have. It also could potentially expose proprietary code and technology of the amplifier itself for copyright/patent infringement and theft of intellectual property. Especially when Blug is setting up an ecosystem for people to pay for new amplifier circuits there's 0% chance that's going to happen.

If you're looking for a truly open source/DSP playground sort of device I only know of two pedals in existence that meet that need:
-Mod Duo
-Empress ZOIA

Anyone else feel free to chime in with other suggestions, but there are very few companies that open their devices up to that level of user interaction that you're asking for.


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## GreatGreen (Dec 30, 2021)

Backsnack said:


> That level of granular control to make your own circuits you're talking about is a level of technical ability that very few people have. It also could potentially expose proprietary code and technology of the amplifier itself for copyright/patent infringement and theft of intellectual property. Especially when Blug is setting up an ecosystem for people to pay for new amplifier circuits there's 0% chance that's going to happen.
> 
> If you're looking for a truly open source/DSP playground sort of device I only know of two pedals in existence that meet that need:
> -Mod Duo
> ...



I mean, if all the components are already in there, the ease of use would depend entirely on the quality of software the company provides. It could be as simple or complicated as BluGuitar wants.

What would have happened to the Axe-Fx if Cliff Chase thought "well the Fractal modeling capability is just too complicated, I better just work with manufacturers directly and let users pay for extra models as they're developed, and only give them access to traditional parameters?" Because personally I think that would have killed the universal success and appeal of the Axe-Fx entirely. Absolutely nobody likes or wants a capable product that has been hamstrung by paywalls. It just stinks of corporate greed and late stage capitalism bullshit, and even if you do end up "caving" and buying it, you still think of it as "caving in" and that feel of being taken advantage of is always there hovering in the background, killing inspiration.

But Cliff didn't do that. Instead, he thought "Ok the modeling algorithm is what it is, and it's already in there and working fully, so I'll provide the classic controls for guitar players who just want that, then I'll create my own Advanced control section and let people mess with that stuff all they want" and it was basically perfect. The Axe-Fx as it is currently (and other modelers that followed suit), literally allows for almost entirely bespoke amplifier circuit design. But Fractal knows better than to present it to users in the form of a schematic diagram. Instead, things are broken down and made easily digestible. "What do you want the input filtering to look like? What about the tone stack? Ok where do you want those frequencies centered? Want an extra gain stage or two? Want to change the size of the transformer? Wattage? Tube types? Presence and Resonance/Depth characteristics? Negative feedback? The list goes on.

The AmpX as a piece of hardware, from its start, will always be as capable of producing analog routes as it will ever be. There's no reason BluGuitar couldn't just create its own "Advanced" section of the AmpX software that basically gave users a set of templates or corralled sets of parameters or component pairings and routings, and let them change that stuff however the software and hardware will allow and see what happens. Add a resistor here, a parallel route instead of a serial route there... sky's the limit. And who knows, with that capability, some designs might surface that neither the designer or collaborative manufacturer ever would have conceived that could blow any premade circuit out of the water.


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## Backsnack (Dec 30, 2021)

GreatGreen said:


> I mean, if all the components are already in there, the ease of use would depend entirely on the quality of software the company provides. It could be as simple or complicated as BluGuitar wants.
> 
> What would have happened to the Axe-Fx if Cliff Chase thought "well the Fractal modeling capability is just too complicated, I better just work with manufacturers directly and let users pay for extra models as they're developed, and only give them access to traditional parameters?" Because personally I think that would have killed the universal success and appeal of the Axe-Fx entirely. Absolutely nobody likes or wants a capable product that has been hamstrung by paywalls. It just stinks of corporate greed and late stage capitalism bullshit, and even if you do end up "caving" and buying it, you still think of it as "caving in" and that feel of being taken advantage of is always there hovering in the background, killing inspiration.
> 
> ...


Ok so I think these two posts are describing fundamentally different things. Having a bunch of advanced controls isn’t really the same thing as designing your own amp circuit, but I get that Axe is cusotmizable to the nth degree.

Ultimately if you’re looking for the vastness of an Axe product I doubt this will fill that need. Furthermore, the effects section of the Amp X probably won’t have the variety of an Axe or a Helix.

Blug’s product approach is much more curated and distilled from his past experience in amp design and being a player with good ears. You either like what offers or you don’t.


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## GreatGreen (Dec 30, 2021)

Backsnack said:


> Ok so I think these two posts are describing fundamentally different things. *Having a bunch of advanced controls isn’t really the same thing as designing your own amp circuit*.
> 
> Ultimately if you’re looking for the vastness of an Axe product I doubt this will fit that bill. Furthermore, the effects section of the Amp X probably won’t have the variety of an Axe os a Helix.
> 
> Blug’s approach is much more curated and distilled. You either like what offers or you don’t.



I think this is where we disagree.

The AmpX marketing suggests that new "amp circuits" will be released over time, and that the AmpX will be designed to accommodate new circuit design. I could be wrong but the only way that would be possible with analog circuitry is that either a limited number of circuits are designed and implemented at the start but some of those circuits are unlocked over time under the illusion that new amps are "coming out," or if the marketing is to be believed, more likely it's that there is an array of "available" circuitry components and an internal dynamic component routing matrix, kind of like a pedal loop switcher but designed for hundreds of tiny guitar circuit components instead of just a few effects pedals. If that's the case, there's no reason BluGuitar couldn't give users access to that matrix to see what they come up with.

And like I said, whatever the software looks like, it can be as simple or as advanced as BlueGuitar wants. My main point is that this capability will be available to amp manufacturers and collaborators, so there's no reason it can't also be made available to users... other than BlueGuitar's fear of losing out on revenue, which feels lame and shitty.

I don't buy the "but the users are too stupid so this is really just to help protect them from themselves" argument. If the collaboration software is designed so that you can't physically destroy components, what's the problem? Let people make crap, who cares? It will be fun either way, and you might even get lucky and stumble on something that sounds good!


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## broangiel (Dec 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I just hope this isn't another Quad Cortex situation. I trust that Thomas wouldn't overdeliver, though.


Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 30, 2021)

broangiel said:


> Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.



 Good on him.


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## Backsnack (Dec 30, 2021)

broangiel said:


> Thomas actually said in an interview that the reason he's been relatively quiet is that he's seen the chest thumping of another manufacture fly back in their face, and he wants his product to launch in its time and complete. He obviously didn't go into details, but everyone knew this was a comment on NDSP.


They are really playing with brand image fire by keeping a key feature out of a final release product for over a year now. Meanwhile, still releasing new plug-ins.


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## broangiel (Dec 30, 2021)

Backsnack said:


> They are really playing with brand image fire by keeping a key feature out of a final release product for over a year now. Meanwhile, still releasing new plug-ins.


Personally, I agree with you. Neural maintains there are two different teams with different roadmaps and responsibilities, so plug-in releases don’t impede QC development. Regardless, I still think it’s a bad look.


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## laxu (Dec 31, 2021)

GreatGreen said:


> I think this is where we disagree.
> 
> The AmpX marketing suggests that new "amp circuits" will be released over time, and that the AmpX will be designed to accommodate new circuit design. I could be wrong but the only way that would be possible with analog circuitry is that either a limited number of circuits are designed and implemented at the start but some of those circuits are unlocked over time under the illusion that new amps are "coming out," or if the marketing is to be believed, more likely it's that there is an array of "available" circuitry components and an internal dynamic component routing matrix, kind of like a pedal loop switcher but designed for hundreds of tiny guitar circuit components instead of just a few effects pedals. If that's the case, there's no reason BluGuitar couldn't give users access to that matrix to see what they come up with.
> 
> ...



I think you are underestimating the complexity of replicating an amp. Most users of the Axe-Fx don't touch the advanced controls at all because most of them are very subtle and also hard to understand without being familiar with how tube amps work. I've been using Fractal for over a decade now and still leave the advanced stuff largely untouched because changing to another amp model is more straightforward. 

Internal tools for developing this kind of stuff are often very crude and would require significant polish to make them usable by the general public. It's not worth the development effort so that a niche section of the end users can play around with it. And it will always be a niche section of users for anything that isn't a largely automated process like Kemper/QC profiles/captures.

It's not like BluGuitar just hand brand X's chief amp designer some piece of software and tell him or her to replicate their amp on it. Training them to use it well would be a much bigger endeavour. Instead the new amps/effects will be completely developed by BluGuitar, but I expect they will try get support from the original manufacturers who can maybe explain how the circuits work better, can help test, can loan the real amp etc.

Thomas has said that the reason for the paid model is that they want to provide kickbacks to the original designers and also to have the resources to replicate an effect or amp model well. That sounds fair to me but even if you never paid for any extra stuff, the Amp X is set to come with all the sounds from the Amp1 Mercury and Iridium editions and those already cover almost everything you would ever need.


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## Backsnack (Dec 31, 2021)

laxu said:


> I think you are underestimating the complexity of replicating an amp. Most users of the Axe-Fx don't touch the advanced controls at all because most of them are very subtle and also hard to understand without being familiar with how tube amps work. I've been using Fractal for over a decade now and still leave the advanced stuff largely untouched because changing to another amp model is more straightforward.
> 
> Internal tools for developing this kind of stuff are often very crude and would require significant polish to make them usable by the general public. It's not worth the development effort so that a niche section of the end users can play around with it. And it will always be a niche section of users for anything that isn't a largely automated process like Kemper/QC profiles/captures.
> 
> ...


Thanks for better articulating the point I was trying to make.

Also to your comment about the sounds in the Amp-X, apparently the eq controls will be able to be saved per preset with whatever preamp is selected. That feature alone makes the immediacy of “every amp sound you need” even more flexible.


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## lewis (Jan 1, 2022)

The neural doesn't even sound good to my ears. It's like a more refined modern version of what Line 6 we're delivering years ago with the Pod HD series only that was better.

And I'm assuming feel is still big problem. I.e it doesn't feel real to play with which is where the amp1 wins again.

Only way I would get interested in the ampX, seeing as it comes stock with Mercury and Iridium built in, is If I could somehow have both activated at once to create a new tone using both.
When you have an Iridium and effects already you don't really feel the need to upgrade.


----------



## Schweick (Jan 3, 2022)

What's the deal then with their Dynamic IR technology, actual innovation or marketing scheme?


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 3, 2022)

Schweick said:


> What's the deal then with their Dynamic IR technology, actual innovation or marketing scheme?



Most likely the later, as always.

Actual dynamic convolution needs a lot of processing power that none of these units has. And that without considering latency involved, etc.

Acustica Audio has been using this tech for around 10 years, but hasn't bothered with the guitar world. Ownhammer actually released some cabs using their tech, but discontinued them since the process of sampling them was not profitable enough for such a niche market. They were unusable in realtime, but sound killer for mixing.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 4, 2022)

Off topic, but I hope Blug releases a stereo power amp based on the Amp1 power amp.


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## laxu (Jan 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Off topic, but I hope Blug releases a stereo power amp based on the Amp1 power amp.


I'd love that. The Amp 1 is already a really nice, compact poweramp. If I end up buying the Amp X I might try to turn the Amp X + Amp 1 into a stereo rig.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 4, 2022)

laxu said:


> I'd love that. The Amp 1 is already a really nice, compact poweramp. If I end up buying the Amp X I might try to turn the Amp X + Amp 1 into a stereo rig.



I mean it makes sense to me.  For a tiny AF littlle box that weighs 6lb, it's got a lot of volume and punch. I've also heard of some people using the Amp1 as a power amp because it's that good. Give us either a stereo pedalboard or rackmount thing, give a basic EQ, and I'm sold.


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## lewis (Jan 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean it makes sense to me.  For a tiny AF littlle box that weighs 6lb, it's got a lot of volume and punch. I've also heard of some people using the Amp1 as a power amp because it's that good. Give us either a stereo pedalboard or rackmount thing, give a basic EQ, and I'm sold.


Amp1 + Depthfinder (Presence and Resonance control) + any modeller = absolute win


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 6, 2022)

Doesn't look too big.


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## laxu (Jan 7, 2022)

Lots of stuff here but not much truly new:



I'm still thinking if I need this. I am sure it could expand on what I have on the Amp 1 ME already but could it also replace my Victory tube amp? The Amp 1 can't because it's not great at Vox/Matchless type tones even if it can get somewhat in that direction. Could it replace my Fractal FM3? The Amp 1 doesn't because it doesn't have a good cab sim solution built in. I tried with the BluBox and it was great sounding but just a little bit too limited. If it had low/high cut/output level controls it would have worked for me.

In the effects department it's clearly not going to be anywhere near as flexible as modelers and I doubt it can soundwise match Strymon or Fractal fx. But it doesn't really have to because even using say a Boss for delay and reverb you can get very good sounds and up from there is just extra. Especially as a live tool a lot of that extra fidelity is going to be less of a concern. It seems like common signal chains for single amp rigs are possible. I hope the digital part can handle delay/reverb in parallel rather than just in series.

If I buy the Amp X, it might be to build a A/B/Y or wet/dry setup with the Amp 1. I would use the Amp X for doing the tones my Victory VC35 does and the Amp 1 ME for the Marshall-based tones I already use. Or I could use Amp 1 as a poweramp for a stereo setup with the Amp X. I will explore this with my current amps next week when I get a new cab for the Victory.

The final feature set will determine. Being able to dial each channel with different EQ would be a pro and having easy control for the powersoak is another plus.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 7, 2022)

As long as the effects are on par with high quality stompboxes, and you have the ability to be flexible with their placement in the signal chain (ala Fractal and Line 6), then it's fine with me.  I like to use effects, but I'm really barebones with the kind of effects I use. I like simple plate and spring verbs, BBD modulations, tape or simplistic digital delays... I don't go for anything too complex.


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## CanserDYI (Jan 7, 2022)

Really?! A video on MY youtube?? That's pretty impressive there, guys. Wait, NOW?! NOW YOU SAY?

 I love these guys.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 2, 2022)

NAMM 2022: BluGuitar launches its analog programmable guitar amp, the AMPX


The AMPX, first teased at NAMM 2020, is finally ready




www.guitarworld.com





So I'm guessing we'll be seeing them out soon. Looking to be ~2000USD/Euro


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## NotDonVito (Jun 2, 2022)

I thought that this was going to be an amp made my that BLU phone company that still sells freakin' flip phones for some reason.


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## Backsnack (Jun 2, 2022)

Here's the livestream preview of the Amp X before they head into NAMM this weekend.

One interesting quirk on this: Thomas was so fixated on using combination jacks for the 1/4" line outs to access different modes (mic or line level) with different plugs being used, that he forgot that the only type of combination jacks available are input jacks like on audio interfaces. For a typical live sound situation, you may have to use a female > male XLR adapter to connect into a board or cab sim box.

Whoops.


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## Backsnack (Jun 2, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> As long as the effects are on par with high quality stompboxes, and you have the ability to be flexible with their placement in the signal chain (ala Fractal and Line 6), then it's fine with me.  I like to use effects, but I'm really barebones with the kind of effects I use. I like simple plate and spring verbs, BBD modulations, tape or simplistic digital delays... I don't go for anything too complex.


If Thomas markets this thing well enough, I'm sure it's going to sell quite well. All the important effects that tend to sound better (or at least in most guitar players' perception or usability) are analogue, as well as all of the "amp models" (preamps, virtual soldering iron, etc.) If the digital effects are of similar quality as the analogue stuff, it's gonna be a no-brainer for a lot people.



lewis said:


> Amp1 + Depthfinder (Presence and Resonance control) + any modeller = absolute win


Those jerks at Amptweaker STILL haven't re-released the Depthfinder! You have yourself a rare vintage pedal.

For me personally, I'm still a little skeptical and I love the variety effects, amps, and other things I can conjure up with my Amp1 Iridium and HX Stomp XL board. But I'll be watching the livestreams to see if it's worth switching sometime down the road.


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## laxu (Jun 3, 2022)

Based on the livestream I would not be surprised if this slips to 2023. It seems they still have a good amount to work on implementing effects, amps and whatnot. The hardware looks mostly complete though so they can probably start manufacturing in a few months.

I think overall the hardware seems smart and covers a lot of use cases. Into guitar cab, into FRFR systems (even unpowered ones with cab sims on the main speaker outs!), into FOH, studio monitors or DAW. I would have preferred a regular MIDI in over the Amp 1 style Remote1/MIDI input because that means you need the MIDI adapter cable. It's also great they opted for a stereo fx loop return as that means you can use stereo output from all your stereo pedals and retain stereo from everything but the speaker out. Blug has really thought about the real world usecases here.

I already have a Strymon + Amp 1 + other pedals board that while over 2x the size, is not massive by any means and I could shrink it further as it has some redundancies. So I have less need for all the stuff the Amp X can do.

Blug has a good ear so I'm sure all of it will sound good. I think it would be cool if he focused on providing some less popular (but good sounding) effects, as an example it seems there's a H&K Replex model that I have not seen modeled anywhere. Those could be standout features for effects where instead of generic ones you have pedals with character modeled.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jun 3, 2022)

I hope they do a head format which can be controlled by any midi floor controller. Because at this point, it looks as big as a typewriter or an old fax machine.


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## CanserDYI (Jun 3, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I hope they do a head format which can be controlled by any midi floor controller. Because at this point, it looks as big as a typewriter or an old fax machine.
> 
> View attachment 108600


Looks a little taller than a helix LT, maybe a bit skinnier. Not really that big for what it is.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 3, 2022)

Also IIRC the previous Amp1s can be controlled with any MIDI controller. Even a couple of CC commands. Just needed the adapter. This doesn't even need an adapter, and I imagine it'll have even more CC commands.


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## Soya (Jun 3, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I hope they do a head format which can be controlled by any midi floor controller. Because at this point, it looks as big as a typewriter or an old fax machine.
> 
> View attachment 108600


I mean it's about the size of a decently big midi controller, why have twice the hardware for no reason? 

Definitely be cool to have one especially after enjoying my amp 1 iridium but 2k ish is just too steep for me.


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## narad (Jun 4, 2022)

4 years in development and couldn't run it past some undergrad design majors?


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## Guitarjon (Jun 4, 2022)

I'm going to ask Thomas to add a Dual Rectifier in there. That would be something! Heck, I would even loan him mine if he'd need it for reference...


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## Backsnack (Jun 5, 2022)

narad said:


> 4 years in development and couldn't run it past some undergrad design majors?


IMO it looks a lot better than the first iteration.

What don't you like about the current version?


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## narad (Jun 5, 2022)

Backsnack said:


> IMO it looks a lot better than the first iteration.
> 
> What don't you like about the current version?



I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin. Look at what NeuralDSP is doing and then look at this thing. Even if you like the sort of Star Trek: TNG Kemper aesthetic this seems in line with, there's no visual consistency anywhere. Everywhere you look for a simple predictable row of identical width/height items, something breaks it.


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## lewis (Jun 5, 2022)

guarantee the marketing ends up like Iridiums pre launch marketing, where despite in that case, its a HIGH GAIN modern amp, all the advertising just showed dad rock blues players on it.
With the iridium it wasnt until after it dropped, that metal dudes were then showcasing it which I bet hurt sales.Can almost guarantee the AmpX is the same.


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## Guitarjon (Jun 5, 2022)

lewis said:


> guarantee the marketing ends up like Iridiums pre launch marketing, where despite in that case, its a HIGH GAIN modern amp, all the advertising just showed dad rock blues players on it.
> With the iridium it wasnt until after it dropped, that metal dudes were then showcasing it which I bet hurt sales.Can almost guarantee the AmpX is the same.



It's far from just a high gain amp. Thomas isn't a high gain player to be honest, he is more a fan of vintage Marshalls. However, the Iridium is great at metal too. Versatile units!


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## lewis (Jun 5, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> It's far from just a high gain amp. Thomas isn't a high gain player to be honest, he is more a fan of vintage Marshalls. However, the Iridium is great at metal too. Versatile units!


the Iridium only existed to be the high gain version of the Mercury. Designed for metal heads.
He even used a Metalhead youtuber to help design it.


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## Guitarjon (Jun 5, 2022)

lewis said:


> the Iridium only existed to be the high gain version of the Mercury. Designed for metal heads.
> He even used a Metalhead youtuber to help design it.



It certainly excells at high gain tones, the Mercury isn't made for metal at all though. I don't really get the problem?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 5, 2022)

lewis said:


> guarantee the marketing ends up like Iridiums pre launch marketing, where despite in that case, its a HIGH GAIN modern amp, all the advertising just showed dad rock blues players on it.
> With the iridium it wasnt until after it dropped, that metal dudes were then showcasing it which I bet hurt sales.Can almost guarantee the AmpX is the same.


I don't recall this being the case at all. Sure there was a couple of non-metal guys (as Jon said, it's crazy versatile), but Thomas knew to give it to metal guys like Arnoldplaysguitar, Ola, John Browne, etc. Heck, the official demos were even down by the youtuber you were talking about.
Heck, the first video of the Amp1 that got my hyped for it was Arnold's.


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## lewis (Jun 5, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't recall this being the case at all. Sure there was a couple of non-metal guys (as Jon said, it's crazy versatile), but Thomas knew to give it to metal guys like Arnoldplaysguitar, Ola, John Browne, etc. Heck, the official demos were even down by the youtuber you were talking about.
> Heck, the first video of the Amp1 that got my hyped for it was Arnold's.



I genuinely stand corrected.
I honestly remember just seeing video after video of the thing from guys playing clean or blues/break up over again haha


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## ExMachina (Jun 5, 2022)

Guitarjon said:


> I'm going to ask Thomas to add a Dual Rectifier in there. That would be something! Heck, I would even loan him mine if he'd need it for reference...


Actually he does an A/B in one of his academy of tone episodes with a dual rec and the iridium. It gets the flavor right, but it's probably one of the tougher matches.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 5, 2022)

I mean Channel 3 of the Iridium reminds me of that kinda sound. SLO-100, 5150, early-revision Recto.


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## c7spheres (Jun 5, 2022)

I just watched video of Blug and the ToneKing guy at Namm and apparently he's gonna help Thomas with the heavy tones! I know he can dial stuff in so it should be good. Thomas saying you can dial in anything you want from 5150 to SLO to Marshall etc.


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## katsumura78 (Jun 5, 2022)

2k is what was said about the price. FM9 seems like a steal at this point. The effects alone on the fractal units is worth the asking price.


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## Backsnack (Jun 5, 2022)

lewis said:


> the Iridium only existed to be the high gain version of the Mercury. Designed for metal heads.
> He even used a Metalhead youtuber to help design it.


And some other German metal band guitarists as well.

Or at least he borrowed some German modded Marshall for one of the extremes on the tone stack of the classic channel.


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## laxu (Jun 6, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I hope they do a head format which can be controlled by any midi floor controller. Because at this point, it looks as big as a typewriter or an old fax machine.


It will work with their Remote 1 controller (apparently a Remote X is planned too), any MIDI controllers using a MIDI adapter.

The size is slightly smaller than the Fractal FM9.


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## Backsnack (Jun 6, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> I just watched video of Blug and the ToneKing guy at Namm and apparently he's gonna help Thomas with the heavy tones! I know he can dial stuff in so it should be good. Thomas saying you can dial in anything you want from 5150 to SLO to Marshall etc.


You can already get those sounds with either of the Amp1 models right now without having to wait around for this. If you combine either one of them with an HX Stomp, you can fill in basically every amp sound "gap" that either the Mercury or the Iridium doesn't cover. For instance, you can get all the vintage amps with a Stomp paired with an Iridium and turn it into a vibey Fender or Vox if you want to take a metal break and be a blues dad for an afternoon.

This is the sticking point that @laxu and I are talking about in terms of this being a hard sell if you already have a combo rig like we do. Note that I'm not trying to bash this thing at all, I'm sure it's going to be fantastic and appeal to a lot of people if you want an all-in-one solution.

The one really interesting feature is the tweakable power amp modeling that appears to be far more advanced than the current Amp1 models. It seems to be a sort of simplified, analogue version of bias and sag controls you can adjust in a Helix. 

Time will tell how this plays out.


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## Backsnack (Jun 6, 2022)

katsumura78 said:


> 2k is what was said about the price. FM9 seems like a steal at this point. The effects alone on the fractal units is worth the asking price.


Join the waitlist for both and see which one pops up first.


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## laxu (Jun 6, 2022)

katsumura78 said:


> 2k is what was said about the price. FM9 seems like a steal at this point. The effects alone on the fractal units is worth the asking price.


This depends very much on how you prefer to use your gear. You can connect the Amp X directly to a guitar cab or even an unpowered FRFR system and have a proper 100W amp. For the FM9 you will be spending more on a poweramp for this setup.

As an Axe-Fx 3 owner, sometimes it seems like too much. Too many menus, too many options, a huge pile of redundancy (like who needs this many Plexi and Tube Screamer variants?), having to do a lot of pre-building to set up your presets in Axe-Edit and then having less than stellar onboard editing. The footswitch configuration is awkward from the front panel UI and perform pages can't even be configured from it.

If you start comparing the number of amp models and fx yeah the FM9 will win by a landslide, but maybe you don't need all that? I find that most of my presets don't change much once initially setup. Having a super flexible signal chain is less of an issue and likewise having 1001 options means it takes more effort to get what you want out of it compared to having a more limited set of stuff to work on.

If the Amp X can be the kind of device that is straightforward to work on like a pedalboard then that has value. There's the kind of guitarist who likes to deep dive and is fine working something like a Fractal to dial things to a T and then there's the guy who just wants to get a sound they like really fast and and with minimal knob twiddling. The Amp X will be more likely to appeal to the 2nd type. I find myself balancing between the two all the time. That's why I have an Axe-Fx 3 but also a pedalboard built around the Amp 1.


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## katsumura78 (Jun 6, 2022)

Ahhh that’s pretty cool. Didn’t realize you could plug right into a cab with it. I guess it’s not fair to compare the two. I had the Axe 3 and I agree on the amount of menus and options got a little too much. Had the 2 and loved that so who knows. I’m back to tube amps regardless. The Amp X does seem like a cool unit, wish we had some proper demos. Also I like the Mark IV knobs on there for tweaking the amp.


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Jun 6, 2022)

Backsnack said:


> Join the waitlist for both and see which one pops up first.


I was late to the waitlist by two days and I still haven't received an email.


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## laxu (Jun 6, 2022)

katsumura78 said:


> Ahhh that’s pretty cool. Didn’t realize you could plug right into a cab with it. I guess it’s not fair to compare the two. I had the Axe 3 and I agree on the amount of menus and options got a little too much. Had the 2 and loved that so who knows. I’m back to tube amps regardless. The Amp X does seem like a cool unit, wish we had some proper demos. Also I like the Mark IV knobs on there for tweaking the amp.


I'd honestly buy the Amp 1 power section alone if they made a separate unit out of it. It's great.

I think we will see more demos later in the year as it gets more fleshed out. NAMM unit seems a bit like "this is held together with bubblegum and sticks" level stuff where it works but can't do all the things promised yet. But that's pretty normal for trade shows regardless of industry.


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## Backsnack (Jun 6, 2022)

laxu said:


> I'd honestly buy the Amp 1 power section alone if they made a separate unit out of it. It's great.
> 
> I think we will see more demos later in the year as it gets more fleshed out. NAMM unit seems a bit like "this is held together with bubblegum and sticks" level stuff where it works but can't do all the things promised yet. But that's pretty normal for trade shows regardless of industry.


It's not like anyone can do a proper demo in NAMM, it seems, because it's so busy and noisy.


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## 4Eyes (Jun 7, 2022)

I'd say that 2k is rather brave pricing.. especially with user interface which looks like at least 20years old, now. They also need to hire a sales representative, no offense to Thomas Blug, I see he is passionate about the project and he trusts his technology, but he can't sell it. what should turn potential buyer from other solutions (either going full digital or some can include real tube amp) into Amp-X?


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## laxu (Jun 7, 2022)

4Eyes said:


> I'd say that 2k is rather brave pricing.. especially with user interface which looks like at least 20years old, now. They also need to hire a sales representative, no offense to Thomas Blug, I see he is passionate about the project and he trusts his technology, but he can't sell it. what should turn potential buyer from other solutions (either going full digital or some can include real tube amp) into Amp-X?


I think Thomas sells it very well. He's likeable and a great player and knows how to get good results out of it. The few Amp X videos haven't been the best though. In their own preview he seems pretty jet lagged and they have probably worked late nights to make it all work.

The Amp 1 and Amp X are built as live tools first and foremost so their feature sets are to make those situations as friction free as possible. Even the most compact tube amps will be less versatile, more noisy, higher weight and certainly not 100W. You could cram the Amp X into a carryon bag and travel the world without needing anything but a cab provided/rented.


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## Backsnack (Jun 7, 2022)

4Eyes said:


> I'd say that 2k is rather brave pricing.. especially with user interface which looks like at least 20years old, now. They also need to hire a sales representative, no offense to Thomas Blug, I see he is passionate about the project and he trusts his technology, but he can't sell it. what should turn potential buyer from other solutions (either going full digital or some can include real tube amp) into Amp-X?


$2k puts it in line with a Helix or Fractal, and it arguably has similar overall capabilities at the outset.

Don't underestimate Blug's name recognition.


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## laxu (Jun 7, 2022)

I think Helix or FM9 is not the appropriate comparison as it's not meant to compete with those in the first place.

The Amp X to me is a highly configurable analog 4 channel amp with analog and digital effects. You probably cannot even use it as an fx only box. For 2K euros you can't buy anything as versatile on the amp market.


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## c7spheres (Jun 7, 2022)

How do you owners out there like the nano tube in combination with the class-d power going on in comparison to actual tube amp feel, break up etc.?

I find class-d an odd choice, not for power, weight etc, but because the way it pumps at louder volumes is quite unsavory ime. It smacks your ear a certain way and can be harsh.
- I'm thinking the nano tube might solve the problem by smoothing out things, so the smack is now a smack of goodness instead. Anyone have experience with this and know what I'm saying? Any thoughts are appreciated.

-. The demos are sounding good. I haven't once thought it sounded bad. I can't wait another year. Guess we have to. $2k seems right to me though.

- I think this approch is most pragmatic compared to basically everything else other than a pedal board rig with nano amp maybe. That'd be cool / maybe better, too. To have it all in one and seperate products would be awesome. I think eventally everything leads to the pedal board platform. You gotta be able to foot contorl stuff or automate it somehow otherwise.

- Out of the 3 out there which is best for Boogie style chug metal? The Iridium from what I can tell, is that right? Can Iridium handle blues somewhat too anyways though?


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## laxu (Jun 7, 2022)

c7spheres said:


> How do you owners out there like the nano tube in combination with the class-d power going on in comparison to actual tube amp feel, break up etc.?
> 
> I find class-d an odd choice, not for power, weight etc, but because the way it pumps at louder volumes is quite unsavory ime. It smacks your ear a certain way and can be harsh.
> - I'm thinking the nano tube might solve the problem by smoothing out things, so the smack is now a smack of goodness instead. Anyone have experience with this and know what I'm saying? Any thoughts are appreciated.
> ...



I put the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition head to head against the Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead I had. Through the same cab, at stage volume, measured by decibel meter. I had an offer to buy the Bogner so I was testing if I want to sell it or not. I no longer have the Bogner. I could make the Amp 1 sound and feel very close if not identical. This was dialing the shared EQ for each channel and testing them individually. In actual use you would have to make some compromises for all channels to work well together.

So to me whatever they do with the nanotube in conjunction with the Class D poweramp, it works just great. I've also cranked the Amp 1 against the Bogner. The Amp 1 was louder, as it should be for 100W vs 45W.

The Mercury Edition at least likes darker speakers. I use mine with a 4x10 with Greenbacks. You can dial pretty much any Marshall-based tone out of it plus a Fender clean channel. What cab/speakers you use determines where the sounds lean.

The Iridium would be the better option for Mesa style tones. I think BluGuitar's YT channel even has a video where they match it to a boosted Dual Rectifier. Basically the Iridium can sound like a boosted Recto before you apply its own boost.


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## c7spheres (Jun 7, 2022)

laxu said:


> I put the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition head to head against the Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead I had. Through the same cab, at stage volume, measured by decibel meter. I had an offer to buy the Bogner so I was testing if I want to sell it or not. I no longer have the Bogner. I could make the Amp 1 sound and feel very close if not identical. This was dialing the shared EQ for each channel and testing them individually. In actual use you would have to make some compromises for all channels to work well together.
> 
> So to me whatever they do with the nanotube in conjunction with the Class D poweramp, it works just great. I've also cranked the Amp 1 against the Bogner. The Amp 1 was louder, as it should be for 100W vs 45W.
> 
> ...


 This is very promising.


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## Backsnack (Jun 14, 2022)

FInally some real-life sounds! New SPJ video/interview with Thomas is up. It appears they're recording direct into an interface.




In case the time code link doesn't work, start the video around 10:10. 

And maybe there are still some bugs to work out. Thomas starts fiddling with one of the parameter knobs while Sean is playing at 13:00 and it sounds like the signal cuts/glitches out. WIth the camera angle I can't tell what it is.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 14, 2022)

So this is how the slated effects chain works:
analog Wah > analog Boost > analog Drive > "Special" digital effects (apparently pitch shifting?) > Modulation > Delay > Reverb > (Amp) > Stereo modulation > Stereo Delay > Stereo Reverb > Cab sims
...this is actually perfect for me. 


EDIT: Also, yep, sounds like an Amp1. This is good.


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## Backsnack (Jun 14, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So this is how the slated effects chain works:
> analog Wah > analog Boost > analog Drive > "Special" digital effects (apparently pitch shifting?) > Modulation > Delay > Reverb > (Amp) > Stereo modulation > Stereo Delay > Stereo Reverb > Cab sims
> ...this is actually perfect for me.
> 
> ...


And a compressor slot in there too, I think before the boost?

If he does end up putting some pitch effects in there I will become a bit more interested/persuaded to switch over and maybe ditch the HX Stomp/Amp1 IE combo.

Though I think I may wait a while to see how the dust settles. I have a feeling it's gonna take a year or so to hit the sweet spot.


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## Backsnack (Jun 14, 2022)

And there will be space for 99 effects in each slot. That should be ... sufficient.


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## laxu (Jun 15, 2022)

Backsnack said:


> If he does end up putting some pitch effects in there I will become a bit more interested/persuaded to switch over and maybe ditch the HX Stomp/Amp1 IE combo.
> 
> Though I think I may wait a while to see how the dust settles. I have a feeling it's gonna take a year or so to hit the sweet spot.


The NAMM unit is obviously got its own share of bugs and missing things that will go away as it gets closer to release and the firmware gets polished.

I agree about waiting to see what it will have at release and whether it makes sense over my Strymons + analog pedals + Amp 1 ME setup. I'm happy with how that sounds into my 4x10 with Greenbacks and the only thing I'd really like from the Amp X is the easily adjustable power drive, the cab sims and being able to setup separate settings for clean and each drive channel. But I have other tools on my board to shape the sound so it's not 100% necessary, more like nice to have.

Ultimately using real guitar cabs with this will have the same limitations as running any modeler into that kind of setup. The cab determines a huge portion of the overall sound and it's just not worth having tons of amps if you use the same cab with all of them.


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## Backsnack (Jun 16, 2022)

laxu said:


> The NAMM unit is obviously got its own share of bugs and missing things that will go away as it gets closer to release and the firmware gets polished.
> 
> I agree about waiting to see what it will have at release and whether it makes sense over my Strymons + analog pedals + Amp 1 ME setup. I'm happy with how that sounds into my 4x10 with Greenbacks and the only thing I'd really like from the Amp X is the easily adjustable power drive, the cab sims and being able to setup separate settings for clean and each drive channel. But I have other tools on my board to shape the sound so it's not 100% necessary, more like nice to have.
> 
> Ultimately using real guitar cabs with this will have the same limitations as running any modeler into that kind of setup. The cab determines a huge portion of the overall sound and it's just not worth having tons of amps if you use the same cab with all of them.


I thought you were also using an HX Stomp with your Amp1 like me?


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## laxu (Jun 16, 2022)

Backsnack said:


> I thought you were also using an HX Stomp with your Amp1 like me?


Nah I've never owned the HX Stomp. I used the full Helix Floor with it but sold it and built a pedalboard around the Amp 1 instead. In hindsight the Helix + Amp 1 setup was more convenient.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 16, 2022)

I bought a HX Stomp XL in hopes of using it with an Amp1 in the future, but my unit seems to really hate running 4-cable method. Noisy-ass hiss when going into the input of the amp. Seems to be a common issue.


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## Backsnack (Jun 16, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I bought a HX Stomp XL in hopes of using it with an Amp1 in the future, but my unit seems to really hate running 4-cable method. Noisy-ass hiss when going into the input of the amp. Seems to be a common issue.


Experiment with your input/output impedance settings for the loops on the Stomp XL and see if Instrument vs. Line Level works better. Some amps have really finicky effects loops for their input/output impedance. Usually Instrument level works best.

Finally, within the HX Stomp, you can add a noise gate to your input block without using a signal chain block. Then you can use the added noise gate on the Amp1 to clamp things down in the loop.

This is a good post to read about signal flow characteristics on the Helix. (Applies to the Stomp as well.)






Common Signal Flow Traits on the Helix


The Helix is designed for the user to set up a number of signal flow combinations. It allows for unique situations that would normally be extremely difficult to set up in real life. They can now be easily arranged within the unit. For further reading, make you also check out the Helix manual sect...



line6.com







> *Noise floor increase due to the introduction of Sends and Returns*
> 
> When using the Helix sends and returns the noise floor can be increased. This is due to the number of A/D converters now used in the signal chain. Most of the increase is negligible. However, it can become more noticeable if the sends/returns are placed in front of a high gain amp model such as the PV Panama (Peavy 5150) due to its inherent high noise floor. This phenomenon occurs on the Pod HD series as well.


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## 4Eyes (Jun 16, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I bought a HX Stomp XL in hopes of using it with an Amp1 in the future, but my unit seems to really hate running 4-cable method. Noisy-ass hiss when going into the input of the amp. Seems to be a common issue.


Ground loop? Some setups are pain to get right. I used Lehle P-Split in front of the amp to solve this when running Decimator G-string in the same way (4CM)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 16, 2022)

4Eyes said:


> Ground loop? Some setups are pain to get right. I used Lehle P-Split in front of the amp to solve this when running Decimator G-string in the same way (4CM)


Nah, it's the nature of the Helix series apparently. It's not a hum, it's a hiss.


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