# Give me some bizarre scales to learn



## Drew (Apr 25, 2006)

Ok, post up an octave or two of your favorite exotic scale patterns. I've decided that, while I don't mind the fact that the majority of my playing is pentatonic/diatonic with chord tones in nature, it'd be good for my fretting hand to spend some time learning to improvise and play some more unusual patterns. 

So, that's where you guys come in.  Post up - I won't be using the majority of these musically, most likely, but I've always thought it's more fun to practice something in a musical context, so give me an octave or two of a bizarre scale you like, with a quick note as to the musical contexts you could use it in - i.e, "minor pentatonic - a popular blues scale, works over just about anything with a m3 and perfect 5."

I don't care if they SOUND any good, I just want my fingers to deal with something unfamiliar.


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## BinaryTox1n (Apr 25, 2006)

Chromatic


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## Shannon (Apr 25, 2006)

This should fuck you up for quite a while. 
http://home.swipnet.se/freakguitar/scales.html


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## maskofduality (Apr 25, 2006)

i just learned this one the other day: Harmonic Major
same thing as normal major (ionian mode), but you flat the 6th(13th). in dorian mode it's a flat 5th, for phrygian its a flat 4th(natural 3rd), lydian now has a flat 3rd, mixolydian has a flatted 2nd(9th), aeolian has a "flatted 1(8)(rootnote)", and locrian has a double flatted 7th(natural 6th).

its a strange scale and my guitar teacher demonstrated to me that this scale is capable of playing 4 diminished chords (as opposed to the diatonic major scales one diminished chord).


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## bostjan (Apr 25, 2006)

Most useless scale ever. I dare you to find a use for it!

Catalog name: 12H7-028 from 12H7-F21
Alias: "Maximum Flat Scale" or "Mega Locrian" from "Protofamily"
Formula: H H H W W W m3
1 b2 bb3 bb4 bb5 bb6 bb7
Root, m2, d3, alt4, alt5, d6, d7

Guitar patterns:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------9-12---
---------------------------------------------------------------10-12---------
-------------------------------------------9-----9-10-11-12----------------
-----------------------------------7-9-11-----------------------------------
------------------7----7-8-9-10---------------------------------------------
-----------5-7-9-------------------------------------------------------------
--5-6-7-8-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I know you said two octaves, but you're a seven string player, so I show no mercy.


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## Michael (Apr 25, 2006)

Try Hirajoshi, it's not extremely bizarre but sounds really cool. It's pretty much Aeolian without its 4th and 7th.

-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
----------------11-13-14-13-11----------------
---------11-12------------------12-11---------
--11-12--------------------------------12-11--
------------------------------------------------


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## bostjan (Apr 25, 2006)

^ Or Iwato, same thing if you start on the second note.

It has a very dramatic Japanese-like sound.


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## Kotex (Apr 25, 2006)

This thread kicks ass. Good idea Drew.


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## bostjan (Apr 25, 2006)

How about 12H7-427 "Double Augmented x4" from the Enigmatic family?

1 #2 #3 x4 x5 #6 7

-----------------------------------------------------------------10-11-12--
------------------------------------------------------10-12-14-------------
-------------------------------------7-8-9----9-12-------------------------
-----------------------------7-9-11----------------------------------------
--------------5-6-7---7-10------------------------------------------------
-------5-7-9---------------------------------------------------------------
--5-8----------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Naren (Apr 26, 2006)

I like Hirojoshi, but Mawdyson's was only tabbed out on 3 strings. Now, the one I play is on all 7 strings. I'm at work, so I can't tab it out right now.

I like some Arabian scales too. Those are coo'.


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## Metal Ken (Apr 26, 2006)

my take on hirajoshi:


```
e-------------------------------------5----7---------------------------
b------------------------------5--6------------------------------------
g------------------------4--5------------------------------------------
d------------------3---7-----------------------------------------------
a----------3---7-------------------------------------------------------
e---5--7---------------------------------------------------------------
b----------------------------------------------------------------------
```

Or:

```
e-------------------------------------------------8---12----------------
B-----------------------------------------10--12------------------------
G--------------------------------9--10----------------------------------
D-------------------------9--10-----------------------------------------
A-----------------8---12------------------------------------------------
E---------8---12--------------------------------------------------------
B-10--12----------------------------------------------------------------
```

At least thats how i learned it.. i forgot the actual formula for it off hand.


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> my take on hirajoshi:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



That looks about right.


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## bostjan (Apr 27, 2006)

Actually, he explained it right but it doesn't match the tab at all. 



> Try Hirajoshi, it's not extremely bizarre but sounds really cool. It's pretty much Aeolian without its 4th and 7th.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------------------
> ...


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Actually, he explained it right but it doesn't match the tab at all.
> 
> Formula- 1 2 b3 5 b6



Actually Ken's is correct. As I look over it, that's exactly the way I play it. And I first learned to play it about 5 years ago. I learned a few other Japanese scales too, but that was the main one I played.

And TECHNICALLY you can't really play Japanese scales on fretted instruments, because Japanese scales use notes that are inbetween natural and unnatural notes (whereas Western instruments just have half-steps 'n' stuff). To play Japanese traditional music correctly, you'd need a fretless Japanese instrument like a Shamisen (or the harp-like koto which has the strings tuned in a very non-western way).


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## bostjan (Apr 27, 2006)

Oops, didn't see the second page and forgot to quote...

fixed


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

Ah, I thought you were talking about Ken's tab of the scale.


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## bostjan (Apr 27, 2006)

Not to detract from what you're saying, but according to the literature, Japanese tunings are very close to western tunings by global standards. In fact, Hirrajoshi as played by a Japanese music master on a fretless instrument comes within 5c of 12-tET.

Japanese music can (in most cases) be translated and adapted to symphony orchestra, but other music, such as classical Indian, Persian, Mesopotamian, Syrian, Egyptian, Indonesian, and even Eastern European is inadaptable.

But anyway, Drew, are any of these helping?


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Not to detract from what you're saying, but according to the literature, Japanese tunings are very close to western tunings by global standards. In fact, Hirrajoshi as played by a Japanese music master on a fretless instrument comes within 5c of 12-tET.
> 
> Japanese music can (in most cases) be translated and adapted to symphony orchestra, but other music, such as classical Indian, Persian, Mesopotamian, Syrian, Egyptian, Indonesian, and even Eastern European is inadaptable.
> 
> But anyway, Drew, are any of these helping?



I didn't say Japanese traditional music is inadaptable. If it was inadaptable, I wouldn't have said "Yeah, that's one of my favorite scales, too." Instead I would have laughed and said "You fools. Japanese scales are inadaptable to feeble Western instruments. Bow before my power and might and glory." I was saying that technically you can't play the exact notes on a Western instrument, which you agreed to. 

Technically, you could play Japanese music on a fretless Western instrument like a violin, but it would just sound absolutely bizarre.

Shamisenzzz are usually played in 1-4-8 tuning or 1-5-8 tuning. Since the strings are made of silk, they don't stay in tune long, which is why there is no standard note. Typically the shamisen tunes to the singer's voice. If there is no singer, the shamisen is tuned into the key that the other instruments will be playing it. For example: A-E-A or A-D-A.


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## bostjan (Apr 27, 2006)

Rock on, Naren!

I love the sound of Koto. One of my favorite, very distinctive, sounds. There's a guy here in Michigan (but on the western side of the state) who builds them. I have very little idea of how to play it, though.

Here is the lick at the end of a Khereb song done with Iwato scale:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------(NH)-----
--6-5------5----------------------------------------------5-------
-------6-5---6-5---6-5------5------------------------------------
------------------6------6-5---6-5-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3----------
-------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Metal Ken (Apr 27, 2006)

@ Naren - Those are those badass fretless things? 
My room mate has a huge thing for gackt (Not my thing personally) but there's this one scene on the DVD where they got like 3 dudes playing those, and it absolutely ruled. IMO, the rest of the DVD was a total letdown compared to that one part, lol.


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> @ Naren - Those are those badass fretless things?
> My room mate has a huge thing for gackt (Not my thing personally) but there's this one scene on the DVD where they got like 3 dudes playing those, and it absolutely ruled. IMO, the rest of the DVD was a total letdown compared to that one part, lol.



Yeah. Shamisen are 3-stringed (shamisen - means "3 strings") fretless traditional Japanese instruments.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Gakt myself. He gets this whole goth image going on, but then makes a song that sounds just like every other pop rock group. His Malice Mizer stuff was kind of cool, but wasn't as dark as the stuff with the singer before Gakt.

By the way, Ken, have you listened to any of Hide's solo stuff or his stuff with Spread Beaver (as in Hide, the lead guitarist for X-Japan)? I was listening to a bunch of it earlier today. Some of it is very heavy and angry-sounding while other songs sound kind of happy or uplifting but the lyrics are super depressing (kind of foreshadowing his suicide). My favorite Hide songs are "Dice" and "Pose." Here's the music video for "Dice." I think you'll really like it if you haven't heard it before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvtktiHFiJQ&search=hide dice


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## Metal Ken (Apr 27, 2006)

I havent heard Hide's stuff... this video does sound a lot like X though. Kinda cool. I'd be really interested in hearing the heavier stuff. I remember reading that Spread Beaver was an american band? Any truth to that?


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## Naren (Apr 27, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> I havent heard Hide's stuff... this video does sound a lot like X though. Kinda cool. I'd be really interested in hearing the heavier stuff. I remember reading that Spread Beaver was an american band? Any truth to that?



Japanese band. With like 6 members. Hide released like 2 solo albums and like 3-4 albums with Spread Beaver. When he joined, the name was changed to "Hide with Spread Beaver." The stuff with Spread Beaver is pretty sweet, but not very heavy. In the below videos, you can see that everyone in Spread Beaver is Japanese.

Pose (Live. by Hide. One of my favorite Hide songs) - In this live, he's playing it with Spread Beaver, but actually this song was off his solo album (which is why it says "Pose - hide" at the beginning and end instead of "Pose - Hide with Spread Beaver"). His vocals on this song are a lot rougher than on "Dice." The album version is rougher than this live version where he's screaming with this bizarre crazy voice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WAnfZN7XE&search=hide pose
Pink Spider music video (by Hide with Spread Beaver. Probably their most famous song. I sing this song in karaoke all the time) - This is an interesting music video. Coo'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7FDwILaj9U&search=pink spider


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## Akrin (Apr 27, 2006)

This is a great scale for the left hand, I think - that half-whole-half shape is really awkward at first.

Half-Whole Diminished
1 b2 b3 3 #4 5 6 b7







It's also really cool that it's the same shape on every string - really really easy to remember.


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## Cancer (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey, instead of one "weird" scale, how about a "book o' weird scales"

My personal fave, enough scales to keep you in tendonitis for years...enjoy...


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## bostjan (Apr 28, 2006)

Guitar Grimoire is a great resource.

My book will have way more scales and patterns, though.  But then, my book isn't finished. 

Plus my book will have a lot of useless scales. Most of the best scales are in the Grimoire.


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## Akrin (Apr 28, 2006)

Yep, I got the scale I posted from the Grimoire.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 11, 2006)

I really love scales that have an eastern sound to them, things you imagine sitars playing.

Arabic
Two octaves, Starting on C
e|-------------------------------|
b|-------------------------------|
G|---------------------------4-5-|
D|-------------------2-3-5-6-----|
A|-------------2-3-4-------------|
E|-----0-1-3-4-------------------|
B|-1-2---------------------------|


Six Tone symetrical
Two octaves, Starting on C
e|-----------------------------------8-|
b|------------------------------9-10---|
G|-------------------------9-10--------|
D|-------------------10-11-------------|
A|-------------11-12-------------------|
E|-------12-13-------------------------|
B|-13-14-------------------------------|


Locrian Maj 6
Two octaves, Starting on C
e|-------------------------------|
b|-------------------------------|
G|-------------------------2-3-5-|
D|---------------------3-4-------|
A|-----------0-1-3-4-5-----------|
E|-------1-2---------------------|
B|-1-2-4-------------------------|


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## abyssalservant (May 11, 2006)

Locrian #6 = second mode of Harmonic Minor.
Arabic as above aka Double Harmonic, which I mentioned in the other scale thread I saw . . . 

AYB: You make my head hurt. I'm so proud of you. Next: Use 6-Tone Symmetrical in a 7/8 riff for a spiffed up (all killer no filler) version of the 6x7 thing we're working on . . .
We would never use math as a toy in music! What are you talking about? 

Shamisens are really weird. I started playing weird lines with over-the-top artificial harmonics on every note for a while after seeing some people playing them . . .


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## MetalMike (Jun 28, 2006)

maskofduality said:


> i just learned this one the other day: Harmonic Major
> same thing as normal major (ionian mode), but you flat the 6th(13th). in dorian mode it's a flat 5th, for phrygian its a flat 4th(natural 3rd), lydian now has a flat 3rd, mixolydian has a flatted 2nd(9th), aeolian has a "flatted 1(8)(rootnote)", and locrian has a double flatted 7th(natural 6th).
> 
> its a strange scale and my guitar teacher demonstrated to me that this scale is capable of playing 4 diminished chords (as opposed to the diatonic major scales one diminished chord).



Harmonic Major is a very cool scale. Holdsworth uses that type of stuff alot. 
If you map it out the chords are:
A min/A dim
B Maj
C aug/ C dim
D# Dim
E maj (can add minor 6th)/ E Aug
F# dim
G# min/ G# Aug

*** /'s mean both chords work.

-Mike


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## BrianCarroll (Jun 28, 2006)

Check out the "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns" by Nicolas Slonimsky. Most of the strange octaves displacements that Buckethead uses are from that book. You'll need some music notation knowledge 'cause it's not guitar-oriented - no tabs there.

BTW the odd scales that I use the most are (no special order):
- Diminished
- Half-Diminished
- Hungarian minor (1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7)
- Hirojoshi
- Whole tone
- SuperLocrian (1,b2,#2,3,#4,#5,b7)


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## distressed_romeo (Jun 28, 2006)

Funny thing about the super-locrian is that if you play it over the 5 chord in a 2-5-1 sequence it doesn't really sound odd at all, it sounds really sexy. Sounds pretty disonant on its own though.


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