# The Queen is dead.



## DiezelMonster (Sep 8, 2022)

I don't care really but Queen Elizabeth II is dead at 96 years old.


----------



## MFB (Sep 8, 2022)

Did you really need to say you didn't care?


----------



## DiezelMonster (Sep 8, 2022)

MFB said:


> Did you really need to say you didn't care?



Yes.


----------



## Drew (Sep 8, 2022)

God save the queen. Dying at 96 surrounded by loved ones is about the best any of us can hope for.


----------



## Kaura (Sep 8, 2022)

F


----------



## Zado (Sep 8, 2022)

It's a weird feeling, sort of " an era it's over" thing. And I'm not even British. Must be very hard for the citizens, condolences


----------



## spudmunkey (Sep 8, 2022)

Unimportant but fun fact, TIL: the first and last PM's under her reign were born 101 years apart.


----------



## SpaceDock (Sep 8, 2022)

How do Brits feel about Charles? Is this gonna be the end of the monarchy? Maybe a time to have a revolution due to the miserable parliamentary situation?


----------



## /wrists (Sep 8, 2022)

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/02...tedly-helps-andrew-pay-14-million-to-accuser/ 

oh noooo she died!!


----------



## StevenC (Sep 8, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> How do Brits feel about Charles? Is this gonna be the end of the monarchy? Maybe a time to have a revolution due to the miserable parliamentary situation?


Fuck that guy to hell. He's an imbecile, a conman, a swamp demon, a charlatan, a pseudoscienc antimedicine supporting, wanker.

Look, I'm Irish, but don't take this with a grain of salt because the Queen was a moderately decent and respectable person broadly. But Charles should be abdicate in the morning.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 8, 2022)

I'll get banned for shit I want to post in this thread right now, let's just say the comment section for Crab Rave is popppping off right now.

Edit: and fuck Charles.


----------



## Xaios (Sep 8, 2022)

Gonna be weird to see the face on all my coins change.







...








That's all.


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 8, 2022)

Rest in peace. Also, it is time for Britain to move along from this monarchy lunacy.


----------



## bjjman (Sep 8, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Rest in peace. Also, it is time for Britain to move along from this monarchy lunacy.


Not just the UK. I'm sitting here in Australia, half a world away and she was technically our head of state. It's ridiculous.


----------



## philkilla (Sep 8, 2022)

Dude 96 is fucking wild. I wonder if she was ready to go with all she'd seen and done.


----------



## tedtan (Sep 8, 2022)

bjjman said:


> Not just the UK. I'm sitting here in Australia, half a world away and she was technically our head of state. It's ridiculous.


The UK, Australia, and the rest of the Commonwealth.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 8, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Dude 96 is fucking wild. I wonder if she was ready to go with all she'd seen and done.



My uncle is 96 and his ass was out on the dance floor at my cousin’s wedding this summer.


----------



## philkilla (Sep 8, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> My uncle is 96 and his ass was out on the dance floor at my cousin’s wedding this summer.



That guy fucks


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> My uncle is 96 and his ass was out on the dance floor at my cousin’s wedding this summer.


My granny is 92 and every year she says she doesn't want to see another one. When my sister asked what she wanted for her birthday she said she wanted to finally die.


----------



## bostjan (Sep 9, 2022)

There is now some talk over Bahamas and Jamaica, and possibly other states, pushing to give Charles III an ultimatum to pay slavery reparations or else they will remove him as head of state...

I wonder if this will put a damper on Zimbabwe rejoining the Commonwealth.

Charles is old enough, though, that I doubt he'll do much of anything too ambitious with the monarchy. Given the controversies he had as Prince, I'm sure he has people advising him to maintain the status quo and keep everyone calm.


----------



## Glades (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Fuck that guy to hell. He's an imbecile, a conman, a swamp demon, a charlatan, a pseudoscienc antimedicine supporting, wanker.
> 
> Look, I'm Irish, but don't take this with a grain of salt because the Queen was a moderately decent and respectable person broadly. But Charles should be abdicate in the morning.


I thought you were from N. Ireland, doesn’t it make you British?


----------



## sleewell (Sep 9, 2022)

what does the king or queen do for the country in 2022?

is it purely a ceremonial type of role or do they actively govern?

seems like a huge waste of money to me but what do i know.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Charles is old enough, though, that I doubt he'll do much of anything too ambitious with the monarchy. Given the controversies he had as Prince, I'm sure he has people advising him to maintain the status quo and keep everyone calm.


That's exactly why he needs to do something crazy. Abolish the monarchy. Or abolish the parliament and take full control of the country again. Either way something big and crazy.


----------



## bostjan (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I thought you were from N. Ireland, doesn’t it make you British?


Northern Ireland is on the island of Ireland, not the island of Great Britain, but, colloquially, usually people refer to the British as people from the UK, so... technically no, but sort of it depends. Sort of like how Hawaii is part of the USA, but, despite being part of the USA is technically not part of the North American continent, so people born in Hawaii are Americans but are technically not Americans. Gotta love how geography and politics interact in such whacky ways.



possumkiller said:


> That's exactly why he needs to do something crazy. Abolish the monarchy. Or abolish the parliament and take full control of the country again. Either way something big and crazy.


I don't think it'd be in his interests to do the former, and I think he knows that doing the latter would likely get him arrested or killed, so neither would be in his interests. What might be more subtle, but more feasible, would be if Charles, for some reason no one saw coming, decided to play a strong hand to get the UK involved in the Ukraine War, or something else foreign-affairs-wise, and cited some ancient laws that were technically never repealed in order to do so. I *think* it'd likely result in the monarchy ultimately losing it's power, but it'd be a slower road to get there. But, again, I don't see 70-whatever year old Charles trying to put together any sort of 4D chess strategy to consolidate power. But who knows, maybe he's been planning for this moment his entire life?


----------



## Glades (Sep 9, 2022)

I see a lot of American posters with opinions on how the UK should govern itself. Please don’t. Let them redcoats do their thing.

The only Royals I care about play in Kansas City.


----------



## AMOS (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I see a lot of American posters with opinions on how the UK should govern itself. Please don’t. Let them redcoats do their thing.
> 
> The only Royals I care about play in Kansas City.


Oh but it's perfectly fine for them to comment on American politics LOL. Especially in this place


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I see a lot of American posters with opinions on how the UK should govern itself. Please don’t. Let them redcoats do their thing.
> 
> The only Royals I care about play in Kansas City.



When Trump was voted president, our allies had some opinions. All allies should have opinions on how the state operates, because we are all on the same team. America First is not a thing. We only thrive when we work together towards a common goal.

Not even people in Kansas City care about the Royals.


----------



## Glades (Sep 9, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> When Trump was voted president, our allies had some opinions. All allies should have opinions on how the state operates, because we are all on the same team. America First is not a thing. We only thrive when we work together towards a common goal.
> 
> Not even people in Kansas City care about the Royals.


The monarchy in the UK is of tremendous cultural significance to Brits. It’s tied to their national identity. I couldn’t begin to understand this, as I am not British. Therefore, as an American, I don’t think I can have an accurate picture of what it all means. I could have an opinion on it, but it would be an ignorant and misguided one.


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> The monarchy in the UK is of tremendous cultural significance to Brits. It’s tied to their national identity. I couldn’t begin to understand this, as I am not British. Therefore, as an American, I don’t think I can have an accurate picture of what it all means. I could have an opinion on it, but it would be an ignorant and misguided one.


Since you did not take the time to research, it would be unwise of you to have an opinion. That said, those of us that do take an interest in things outside our shores probably have formulated opinions and have grounds to discuss them.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 9, 2022)

At least dissolve the fake title of Prince Of Wales, ffs.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> The monarchy in the UK is of tremendous cultural significance to Brits. It’s tied to their national identity. I couldn’t begin to understand this, as I am not British. Therefore, as an American, I don’t think I can have an accurate picture of what it all means. I could have an opinion on it, but it would be an ignorant and misguided one.


Extremely well said. As a Brit, I've been staying out of these conversations on forums, because understanding the significance of monarchy can only come from having been raised in one. It is absolutely essential to our National Identity.


----------



## JimF (Sep 9, 2022)

Going to write a huge reply but I'm about the close up the office at work so I shall wait! Unless someone else (hopefully) makes my point more concisely than I do.


----------



## bostjan (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> The monarchy in the UK is of tremendous cultural significance to Brits. It’s tied to their national identity. I couldn’t begin to understand this, as I am not British. Therefore, as an American, I don’t think I can have an accurate picture of what it all means. I could have an opinion on it, but it would be an ignorant and misguided one.


Charles III might not be the head of state of the USA, but he's the King of Canada, which shares the largest land border in the world with the USA, as well as several other nations very close, geographically, to the USA- Bahamas, Jamaica, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Grenada, Belize, etc.


----------



## TedEH (Sep 9, 2022)

I'm Canadian, am I allowed to opine bout the significance of this world event? I have no real meaningful opinion, but I'm shocked (also relieved?) to have not heard more about Romana Didulo right now.


----------



## Drew (Sep 9, 2022)

bostjan said:


> There is now some talk over Bahamas and Jamaica, and possibly other states, pushing to give Charles III an ultimatum to pay slavery reparations or else they will remove him as head of state...
> 
> I wonder if this will put a damper on Zimbabwe rejoining the Commonwealth.
> 
> Charles is old enough, though, that I doubt he'll do much of anything too ambitious with the monarchy. Given the controversies he had as Prince, I'm sure he has people advising him to maintain the status quo and keep everyone calm.


William is next after Charles, right? I don't pretend to be an expert, but I kinda feel like a pragmatic read of the situation might be to wait for one of Diana's kids before pushing this subject, as they're from a very different generation and might be a little more receptive to the morality of the position.


----------



## bostjan (Sep 9, 2022)

Drew said:


> William is next after Charles, right? I don't pretend to be an expert, but I kinda feel like a pragmatic read of the situation might be to wait for one of Diana's kids before pushing this subject, as they're from a very different generation and might be a little more receptive to the morality of the position.


Correct.

William, then his son George, then his other kids, then Harry, then Harry's kids, then Prince Andrew is like 8th or something in line, until anyone has more kids.


----------



## Glades (Sep 9, 2022)

TedEH said:


> I'm Canadian, am I allowed to opine bout the significance of this world event? I have no real meaningful opinion, but I'm shocked (also relieved?) to have not heard more about Romana Didulo right now.


Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on anything. But sometimes, it’s wiser to sit back and listen, than blabbering away without substance.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on anything. But sometimes, it’s wiser to sit back and listen, than blabbering away without substance.


Sir, this is the internet (you are, however, 100% correct)


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 9, 2022)

Imagine mourning a monarch.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on anything. But sometimes, it’s wiser to sit back and listen, than blabbering away without substance.



Some people will argue with anyone, anywhere, any time, about anything!


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 9, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Some people will argue with anyone, anywhere, any time, about anything!


Hey fuck you no we dont!


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Hey fuck you no we dont!


----------



## soldierkahn (Sep 9, 2022)

a pointless and powerless position..... should we care?


----------



## sleewell (Sep 9, 2022)

Lozek said:


> Extremely well said. As a Brit, I've been staying out of these conversations on forums, because understanding the significance of monarchy can only come from having been raised in one. It is absolutely essential to our National Identity.



this is very interesting to me. can i ask you to please elaborate a little? what value do they add to most people's lives? why do people want them around? what do they do? 

purely as an outsider it looks like they dont do much of anything and are just very very wealthy but i have never lived in that environment so that is why i am curious.


----------



## Andromalia (Sep 9, 2022)

Keith Richards: "Told you so".


----------



## Xaios (Sep 9, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> a pointless and powerless position..... should we care?


Pointless? Sure. Powerless? Not at all. The monarch may not wield supreme executive power, but they're monumentally wealthy _and_ the head of the Anglican church.


----------



## DiezelMonster (Sep 9, 2022)

TedEH said:


> I'm Canadian, am I allowed to opine bout the significance of this world event? I have no real meaningful opinion, but I'm shocked (also relieved?) to have not heard more about Romana Didulo right now.


You're not Canadian, You're from Quebec.......


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

Let's get to the important stuff...


----------



## TedEH (Sep 9, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> You're not Canadian, You're from Quebec.......


It's at least 50/50. I've got one foot in Ontario at any given moment..... especially if these language laws keep going they way they're going. Not to derail from very important Queen news. Carry on.


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 9, 2022)

The only Queen that matters.


----------



## SCJR (Sep 9, 2022)

Meh


----------



## Lozek (Sep 9, 2022)

sleewell said:


> this is very interesting to me. can i ask you to please elaborate a little? what value do they add to most people's lives? why do people want them around? what do they do?
> 
> purely as an outsider it looks like they dont do much of anything and are just very very wealthy but i have never lived in that environment so that is why i am curious.


There's many aspects to answering that question. 

I'm terms of what they add, a sense of 'Permanence' that there is an authority with centuries of service and wisdom who does not have to worry about re-election or financial position, to which our politicans are answerable. They meet the ruling Monarch once a week and Government is granted on Royal favour (although it is never denied)

They embody 'the will of the people' in the sense of how we interact with each other (a sense of fair play, a recognition of our common bonds), moreso than any political dictates. In a sense they 'are' Great Britain and our common values are derived from their example. 

There's obviously a vocal minority in the UK who are against the Royal Family, they see the 'privilege' of their position and view them as lazy (the Queen worked until she was 96!!!), or expensive (they bring in substantially more than they cost), but there is a quiet, unspoken admiration in the majority of the population. In particular, I think the Queen and Prince Phillip were viewed as almost a distant set of Grandparents who we wished the best for and felt their losses.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I thought you were from N. Ireland, doesn’t it make you British?


Well, SpaceDock asked for responses from Brits. You may have heard of the concept of dual citizenship, and you may also have heard the concept of colonialism and disputed terrortories.


----------



## tedtan (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I see a lot of American posters with opinions on how the UK should govern itself. Please don’t. Let them redcoats do their thing.


Just to clarify, while Great Britain is a constitutional monarchy, the royalty are not a ruling class. Great Britain is also a parliamentary democracy with two houses, the House of Lords (roughly equivalent to the US Senate) and the House of Commons (roughly equivalent to the US House of Representatives). The ruling political party appoints a Prime Minister who is very roughly equivalent to a US President, though the PM is head of government only whereas a US President is head of government and head of State.

The British Queen, and now King, is the head of State for all of the Commonwealth countries. The Royal Family, including the King/Queen are not officially involved in governing (that’s the role of Parliament), though they do have indirect influence and, as a formality, the King/Queen approves the elected Government. The Royalty tend to State functions, run various charities, and help unite a disparate group of “subjects” from numerous countries.


----------



## Dr. Caligari (Sep 9, 2022)

Lozek said:


> understanding the significance of monarchy can only come from having been raised in one. It is absolutely essential to our National Identity.



I was also raised in a monarchy but I think it's dumb. The concept doesn't make sense in modern times. It fits much better in history books and fairy tales.

To single out people and give them that kind of position just because they're born into it is absurd. What if they just want to be a normal person? Nope, sorry, you were born to the wrong family.

To me the whole thing is crazy. It's not the middle ages anymore.


----------



## narad (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Well, SpaceDock asked for responses from Brits. You may have heard of the concept of dual citizenship, and you may also have heard the concept of colonialism and disputed terrortories.



I apologize for the Americana.


----------



## BornToLooze (Sep 9, 2022)

narad said:


> I apologize for the Americana.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 9, 2022)

Glades said:


> I see a lot of American posters with opinions on how the UK should govern itself. Please don’t. Let them redcoats do their thing.
> 
> The only Royals I care about play in Kansas City.


This is silly. Nationality doesn't entitle or preclude anyone from an opinion. I believe there's a concept in your country called freedom of speech. Anyone with an interest in an honest discussion is welcome to their say in any topic. 


AMOS said:


> Oh but it's perfectly fine for them to comment on American politics LOL. Especially in this place


See above. Sorry you hate freedom. 


Glades said:


> The monarchy in the UK is of tremendous cultural significance to Brits. It’s tied to their national identity. I couldn’t begin to understand this, as I am not British. Therefore, as an American, I don’t think I can have an accurate picture of what it all means. I could have an opinion on it, but it would be an ignorant and misguided one.


You've never been here. You're wrong. Sit down. The Prime Minister is an abolishionist. Information is easily accessible but you're choosing to make things up. 


Glades said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on anything. But sometimes, it’s wiser to sit back and listen, than blabbering away without substance.


This is irony folks.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

The only thing I know about Northern Ireland is they are home to Therapy, the band with the best sounding snare and the worst lyrics.


----------



## narad (Sep 9, 2022)

I may never understand the emotional significance of the monarchy to the average british citizen (though I almost became one), but the pros/cons that the role of the monarchy plays in governing is easily understood. Like how I might never understand the role that Trump plays in the heart of his base as some semblance of a divine figure, but it's clear from his actions and talks that he's a moron who is better suited to reality TV than reality.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 9, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> The only thing I know about Northern Ireland is they are home to Therapy, the band with the best sounding snare and the worst lyrics.



We also have Vivian Campbell, Gary Moore, and a load of guns that were purchased legally in Florida and sent to terrorists here.


----------



## narad (Sep 9, 2022)

And The Cranberries. Don't forget The Cranberries.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> We also have Vivian Campbell, Gary Moore, and a load of guns that were purchased legally in Florida and sent to terrorists here.



I know about the guns, too, but I uh, ahem…. I uh didn’t want to mention anything about that for… reasons…


----------



## AMOS (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> See above. Sorry you hate freedom.


I hate parroting, if I've seen any original ideas or productive debates, they haven't been in here. It's the same bobble head playset every day matching the beat of the drum.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 9, 2022)

narad said:


> And The Cranberries. Don't forget The Cranberries.


Screw you man, that's not our fault. They're from Limerick.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Screw you man, that's not our fault. They're from Limerick.



There once was a band named The Cranberries
They weren’t very tart because their catalogue varies
They were from Limerick
And this is a limerick
They should have changed their name to The Cherries


----------



## narad (Sep 9, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Screw you man, that's not our fault. They're from Limerick.



Oh, I once met a man from Limerick.

I don't want to say more about him here though, he was quite crass.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 9, 2022)

You are both artless thugs


----------



## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 9, 2022)

Friend of mine manages a bank, had a cheeky sent my way video this morning:

"To my fellow Canadians: any legal tender you presently have that bears the Queen's likeness is now null and void - invalid, doesn't count anymore. As a banker you can send it to me for disposal while you wait for your replacement King Charles money."


----------



## Manurack (Sep 10, 2022)

The memes on FB have been fucking amazing lol

Don't ban me from SSO my dudes.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 10, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I was also raised in a monarchy but I think it's dumb. The concept doesn't make sense in modern times. It fits much better in history books and fairy tales.
> 
> To single out people and give them that kind of position just because they're born into it is absurd. What if they just want to be a normal person? Nope, sorry, you were born to the wrong family.
> 
> To me the whole thing is crazy. It's not the middle ages anymore.


Absolutely, and that is the remarkable thing about Queen Elizabeth, she has managed to walk the line between tradition and modernity to keep the UK Monarchy relevant and essential. I can imagine that with a different approach, I might also feel that it was silly and pointless.

And you've hit on a point there that embodies why I feel that people who class them as 'Lazy' are so far from the mark, they are born into a role that they must fulfil whether they like it or not. Want to sit at home in tracksuit pants and eat Marmalade sandwiches? Tough shit, you've got to met the Ambassador from the Faroe Islands followed by an audience with the Pope.

For all the splendour and glamour that surrounds them, being forced to do something for decades with no choice and having to be gracious, wise and magnanimous must be mentally exhausting.


----------



## Andromalia (Sep 10, 2022)

StevenC said:


> you may also have heard the concept of colonialism and disputed _terrortories_.


Scary rightwing politicians ?


----------



## SamSam (Sep 10, 2022)

The Monarchy is a huge part of British culture and they also generate a hell of a lot of income for the UK. Tourism in Britain would be significantly altered (in a detrimental way).

On the plus side I'll be receiving three medals this year


----------



## StevenC (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> Want to sit at home in tracksuit pants and eat Marmalade sandwiches? Tough shit, you've got to met the Ambassador from the Faroe Islands followed by an audience with the pope.


Oh no! Jetting around the world having posh meals, such hard work.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 10, 2022)

AMOS said:


> I hate parroting, if I've seen any original ideas or productive debates, they haven't been in here. It's the same bobble head playset every day matching the beat of the drum.


Says the dude wanting to fellate his idol politicians.


----------



## nickgray (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> Tough shit, you've got to met the Ambassador from the Faroe Islands followed by an audience with the Pope.


Oh no, what a terrible job to have. I'm sure no one in their right mind would agree to having an audience with the Pope and in return get the best healthcare possible, best food, not having to clean or cook ever, having bodyguards and chauffeurs, private jet... what an awful job to have.



Lozek said:


> being forced to do something for decades with no choice


Yeah, it's not like they can abdicate or quietly get away from this life or anything.


----------



## jaxadam (Sep 10, 2022)




----------



## cip 123 (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> For all the splendour and glamour that surrounds them, being forced to do something for decades with no choice and having to be gracious, wise and magnanimous must be mentally exhausting.


They're not forced though, they can leave their duties. 

They could do any number of things to benefit the public in greater ways, but yea I guess they're forced to meet other rich people which really packs up their schedule.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Sep 10, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Oh no, what a terrible job to have. I'm sure no one in their right mind would agree to having an audience with the Pope and in return get the best healthcare possible, best food, not having to clean or cook ever, having bodyguards and chauffeurs, private jet... what an awful job to have.



I do see your point, but I think the realities of the situation are rather different. I think freedom is priceless. You have one life and having basic autonomy over it is important. I would absolutely HATE to have been born into the royal family. It's not about the fancy food or nice cars. It's about not being able to choose what to do. It would be totally shit not being able to set the course of your own life. I actually felt "sorry" when William and Kate had that little boy. He can't have a normal childhood or upbringing. He doesn't know anything except the life that will be given to him.

If you just want to fly around the world, be catered to etc, you can just be rich. It isn't that hard to be wealthy nowadays. I wouldn't call myself "rich" but at periods in my life I have had somebody live with us to cook for us. I can mostly afford to travel however/wherever I want (within reason, lol). I get private health checks etc. But, more importantly, I also don't have to get up and "perform" for people and be a good boy or keep all my opinions to myself... or all the other bullshit the royal family does. I don't think exchanging formal pleasantries with the pope would be worth giving up my freedom.


----------



## narad (Sep 10, 2022)

It's pretty well known how exhausting it can be in the public eye, and even pretty minor celebs or youtubers crack under that level of fame. Seeing as that is like the tiniest blip on the level of fame it would be to be queen, coupled with the fact that your choices in this weird game actually have consequences for millions of people and the history of your country, seems incredibly daunting and not the kind of life I would want for myself.

Like meeting the pope sounds cool. Meeting the pope and having the smallest gestures and statements having huge political consequences, ..well, not so much. And to do that day in and day out, ugh!


----------



## Flappydoodle (Sep 10, 2022)

I think the Royal Family is essentially a nice bit of tradition which is pretty much harmless. I think overall it's something unique and recognisable about Britain, and I really don't see a strong reason to end a 1,000 year tradition. The Monarchy hasn't affected our democracy or progress in any way. They have some funny titles and a bunch of out-dated pomp and fanfare, but the Queen at least never interfered in politics in any sort of way. I guess we'll see about Charles, since historically he's been a bit more outspoken. 

I do think there's value in preserving symbols of history, and certainly many of the former Prime Ministers have said that she provided good advice, and a lot of British people see that she provided a lot of stability. It's like even when things are changing, there's one constant reliable and predictable thing. Again, I think there's value in that sort of stability or mentor-type role. She met 13 US presidents and 15 UK prime ministers.

On the practical level, the Duke of Edinburgh awards really helped a lot of kids at my school. I can say that I saw that first hand. The Princes Trust is also a phenomenal organisation for disadvantaged youths. Lots of the "royal" charities do great work, like protecting wildlife, protection of children, maintenance of historic UK lands and buildings etc etc. 

There is also a super cool tradition that if you are a noteworthy or outstanding member of society, you will meet the Queen/King and receive recognition. There are various levels of award, all with cool names like Order of the British Empire. You can be made "Sir". You can receive a Knighthood. For example, the inventors of the AZ Covid vaccine received Knighthoods for their service during the pandemic. That's pretty cool IMO. Better than getting an award from some politician who wants to score points.

To me, Royal haters are just weird. It's nearly always based in some kind of bitterness that there exists some people who are rich and lead pampered lives. Guess what - if you're sitting and writing this on a hobbyist forum for electric guitars, YOU are rich and pampered by global standards. People in Bangladesh would think you're insanely spoiled for having drinkable tap water. There's also a shitload of people with wealth similar or greater than the Royals, who contribute a hell of a lot less. I got a mate who helped set up an oil deal by introducing one guy in Holland to another guy in Qatar. Now he gets around €500,000 per month and can spend all his time sitting in nice Tuscan villas, going skiing in the Swiss alps etc. There's a lot of rich people out there, lol. So really, it's hard for me to understand all the hate of the royal family.


----------



## nickgray (Sep 10, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> He can't have a normal childhood or upbringing. He doesn't know anything except the life that will be given to him.


I mean, that's true of everyone though, no? You can be born in a family of drug addicts, and you won't have a normal childhood either. You have no control over your parents and upbringing, and that's something that makes an enormous impact on you.



Flappydoodle said:


> It would be totally shit not being able to set the course of your own life.


But tons of people don't either. The "you can be whatever you want" mentality is nonsense, it's just wishful thinking.


Flappydoodle said:


> protection of children


Oh yeah, they're doing an excellent job.



Flappydoodle said:


> It's nearly always based in some kind of bitterness that there exists some people who are rich and lead pampered lives











Flappydoodle said:


> So really, it's hard for me to understand all the hate of the royal family.


I don't hate anything, I'm not British and I don't really care tbh. But monarchy in 2022 is weird as hell, and the amount of attention it seems to recieve is thoroughly bizarre.

Why not have a president as a head of state that your country votes for every 5 years? Why even have a ceremonial head of state at all? It's a dumb, useless position that eats up tax money and serves the politicans themselves most of all.



Flappydoodle said:


> There is also a super cool tradition that if you are a noteworthy or outstanding member of society, you will meet the Queen/King and receive recognition


How is this any different from state awards?



Flappydoodle said:


> Guess what - if you're sitting and writing this on a hobbyist forum for electric guitars, YOU are rich and pampered by global standards


Well, yeah, I also don't tax money thrown at me and I don't pretend to be important.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 10, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> I think the Royal Family is essentially a nice bit of tradition which is pretty much harmless. I think overall it's something unique and recognisable about Britain, and I really don't see a strong reason to end a 1,000 year tradition. The Monarchy hasn't affected our democracy or progress in any way. They have some funny titles and a bunch of out-dated pomp and fanfare, but the Queen at least never interfered in politics in any sort of way. I guess we'll see about Charles, since historically he's been a bit more outspoken.
> 
> I do think there's value in preserving symbols of history, and certainly many of the former Prime Ministers have said that she provided good advice, and a lot of British people see that she provided a lot of stability. It's like even when things are changing, there's one constant reliable and predictable thing. Again, I think there's value in that sort of stability or mentor-type role. She met 13 US presidents and 15 UK prime ministers.
> 
> ...


Dude the royal family stands for nothing but colonialism, theivery, rape and pillaging of developing cultures, deep rooted racism and classism, the list never ends. THATS why I hate the monarchy.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 10, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I mean, that's true of everyone though, no? You can be born in a family of drug addicts, and you won't have a normal childhood either. You have no control over your parents and upbringing, and that's something that makes an enormous impact on you.
> 
> 
> But tons of people don't either. The "you can be whatever you want" mentality is nonsense, it's just wishful thinking.
> ...


I think we only have to look at the division in the US to see that elected officials with differing political slants are a divisive rather than uniting factor and drive a country apart. Indeed our own elected officials are the same, but the Monarchy gives us something beyond that and binds the country together.

I don't want to turn this into a UK vs US thing, I'm just trying to give some understanding of why for the majority of Brits, the Monarchy is a very good thing. As I said earlier in the thread, if you haven't experienced it then you are unlikely to fully comprehend it, because it's a very undefined thing.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 10, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> They're not forced though, they can leave their duties.
> 
> They could do any number of things to benefit the public in greater ways, but yea I guess they're forced to meet other rich people which really packs up their schedule.


They can leave their duties, and pass the burden on to their Children or Grand-Children. I think most parents given that choice would take it upon themselves.


----------



## nickgray (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> They can leave their duties, and pass the burden on to their Children or Grand-Children. I think most parents given that choice would take it upon themselves.


Or they can get up and say that they're done with the whole monarchy thing. Fat chance of that happening though, people don't just give up this kind of social status, wealth and prestige.


----------



## Lozek (Sep 10, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Or they can get up and say that they're done with the whole monarchy thing. Fat chance of that happening though, people don't just give up this kind of social status, wealth and prestige.


That is one way of viewing it. However there is also the kind of work that @Flappydoodle has pointed out, charitable works and initiatives that benefit the country as a whole, this is what they see as their duty and responsibility to serve the country. 

If you ever checked out Charles 'Spider Letters', where he was chastised in the media for meddling in politics, what he was actually doing was trying to push politicians to enhance British interests in sectors like Dairy Farming. There was no career enhancement for him, no financial gain, just a sense of looking after the interests of British businesses who were having the cards stacked against them unfairly.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> the majority of Brits


Yeah, once you exclude all the subjects of the crown that have lost to the crown. All the people benefiting from colonialism think it's a great idea. Shocker.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 10, 2022)




----------



## Lozek (Sep 10, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Yeah, once you exclude all the subjects of the crown that have lost to the crown. All the people benefiting from colonialism think it's a great idea. Shocker.


By that logic, can we say that a US plumber benefiting from the the American way of life is complicit in Native American genocide? Or a contented Australian who works in a Washing Machine factory should feel responsible for the treatment of the indigenous people? 

All countries have their black marks in history (and quite a few in their current foreign and domestic policies), holding it's people responsible if they find comfort in it's Governance and traditions is a stretch.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> By that logic, can we say that a US plumber benefiting from the the American way of life is complicit in Native American genocide? Or a contented Australian who works in a Washing Machine factory should feel responsible for the treatment of the indigenous people?
> 
> All countries have their black marks in history (and quite a few in their current foreign and domestic policies), holding it's people responsible if they find comfort in it's Governance and traditions is a stretch.


How did you read that out of my post?


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 10, 2022)

Lozek said:


> By that logic, can we say that a US plumber benefiting from the the American way of life is complicit in Native American genocide? Or a contented Australian who works in a Washing Machine factory should feel responsible for the treatment of the indigenous people?



"responsibility" in this sense entails, to me, performative liberal guilt which serves no actual purpose for anyone but the performer, but yes, there is a degree of complicity, especially considering the specific genocide you referenced is ongoing on many ways. 

Every member of an imperialist nation who benefits from its imperialism is complicit in those activities to some extent. That doesn't seem a very radical proposition to me.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 11, 2022)




----------



## AMOS (Sep 11, 2022)

Lozek said:


> I think we only have to look at the division in the US to see that elected officials with differing political slants are a divisive rather than uniting factor and drive a country apart. Indeed our own elected officials are the same, but the Monarchy gives us something beyond that and binds the country together.
> 
> I don't want to turn this into a UK vs US thing, I'm just trying to give some understanding of why for the majority of Brits, the Monarchy is a very good thing. As I said earlier in the thread, if you haven't experienced it then you are unlikely to fully comprehend it, because it's a very undefined thing.


It's the media that divides, the sheep just follow the herder.


----------



## thraxil (Sep 11, 2022)

Lozek said:


> And you've hit on a point there that embodies why I feel that people who class them as 'Lazy' are so far from the mark, they are born into a role that they must fulfil whether they like it or not. Want to sit at home in tracksuit pants and eat Marmalade sandwiches? Tough shit, you've got to met the Ambassador from the Faroe Islands followed by an audience with the Pope.
> 
> For all the splendour and glamour that surrounds them, being forced to do something for decades with no choice and having to be gracious, wise and magnanimous must be mentally exhausting.



There is absolutely nothing stopping any of them from abdicating and going off and doing whatever the fuck they want with their lives. See, eg, Edward VIII and Prince Harry's recent "Megxit".

They are no more "forced" to perform royal duties than someone who inherits their parents' business is forced to run it day to day. The only real difference is that they *do* have the option of literally being royalty, drawing a fat allowance from the public, and passing that right on to their children.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> It's the media that divides, the sheep just follow the herder.


Pretty sure it's Partition that divides.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> It's the media that divides, the sheep just follow the herder.


LOL again coming from a conservative this is rich! You're not wrong, really, its just funny because you're on the side of ivermectin and Hilary is a lizard and Obama is the antichrist mumbo jumbo LOL.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 11, 2022)

It's really easy to rip in to any countries political system as stupid, and there is a lot of pompous ridiculousness about the UK's and our Monarchy and its place in it, and it's really hard to defend that system when so much of the constructive criticism is right. But there's huge flaws in every system if its badly run or run by bad faith actors - Post Brexit Torys for example or Trump era Republicans, or Brazils current presidential administration. A president is really no better than a monarch as head of state. Democracy is basically fucked if the wrong people get to be in charge, the UK is a perfect example of that right now.

Thw Queen as a person was very different to The Royal "firm". There was a lot of personal respect for her but as was seen on the last two tours of the Caribbean by Wills and Kate and Edward many poorer commonwealth countries want out as they got no help during covid and they want reparations for the Monarchys/Uks role in the slave trade.

But the Monarchy here will evolve and change to fit the new world but all the old system of entitlement and aristocratic privilege will remain and people here will still lap it up and keep voting to be poorer and shafted harder. Long as they get to wave their little flags and shake hands and doff caps and tug forlocks. It's all very British.

Bit of a ramble but it is hard to explain why this is a big deal, when it's not. Compared to the cost of living crisis and spiralling inflation here... but history just gonna be historic

It is sad tho on a personal level that for the family, they have lost a mum, nan and great nan and their grief can't be dealt with privately.


----------



## AMOS (Sep 11, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> LOL again coming from a conservative this is rich! You're not wrong, really, its just funny because you're on the side of ivermectin and Hilary is a lizard and Obama is the antichrist mumbo jumbo LOL.


Never in my existence have I ever accused a politician of being the antichrist. I'm not a Trump supporter (as I've stated many times) and I'm not a GOP flag waver. I only vote for them because they support the 2nd Amendment much more then the left, and I don't agree with Socialism or modern Wokeness. The Democrats and Republicans are a two headed snake that share one belly. The ideal model for society is Anarcho-Primitivism, because I know I would survive and thrive. How would all of you do without all those handouts and entitlements? They're nothing but enticements to garner your votes.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Never in my existence have I ever accused a politician of being the antichrist. I'm not a Trump supporter (as I've stated many times) and I'm not a GOP flag waver. I only vote for them because they support the 2nd Amendment much more then the left, and I don't agree with Socialism or modern Wokeness. The Democrats and Republicans are a two headed snake that share one belly. The ideal model for society is Anarcho-Primitivism, because I know I would survive and thrive. How would all of you do without all those handouts and entitlements? They're nothing but enticements to garner your votes.


Maybe you might not, but to say your political party doesn't subscribe to the type of nonsense described in my previous post and that only the left are "shepherded" into their beliefs is just plain laughable. 

But to be honest, the way you speak makes you sound INCREDIBLY susceptible to brainwashing. Just being honest with you. 

And anarcho primitivism is dumb and you'd last a day before wishing there were just one or two rules.


----------



## mmr007 (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> The ideal model for society is Anarcho-Primitivism, because I know I would survive and thrive. How would all of you do without all those handouts and entitlements? They're nothing but enticements to garner your votes.


Is this assertion meant to be taken seriously? Stated on the internet which wouldn't exist in a feral state devoid of technology. Also, I don't know where you live or what you do but I don't live on handouts. I have a job that pays for my food, my car, my house and my medical bills when I invariably get another kidney stone.

What handouts are you currently living off of? Also, sorry but the modern day anarcho primitivist maybe good at firing a weapon at animals and going hiking and and cosplaying as a hunter gatherer but you wouldn't last three days before you begged Biden and Pelosi to give you have refrigeration. Sorry its not realistic


----------



## nickgray (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> The ideal model for society is Anarcho-Primitivism, because I know I would survive and thrive


----------



## AMOS (Sep 11, 2022)

nickgray said:


>


How much stuff you got stocked up in your mom's basement?


----------



## AMOS (Sep 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Is this assertion meant to be taken seriously? Stated on the internet which wouldn't exist in a feral state devoid of technology. Also, I don't know where you live or what you do but I don't live on handouts. I have a job that pays for my food, my car, my house and my medical bills when I invariably get another kidney stone.
> 
> What handouts are you currently living off of? Also, sorry but the modern day anarcho primitivist maybe good at firing a weapon at animals and going hiking and and cosplaying as a hunter gatherer but you wouldn't last three days before you begged Biden and Pelosi to give you have refrigeration. Sorry its not realistic


Watch China, not just militarily. Start to really watch them, who they're forming alliances with. You can laugh now, I'll laugh later.


----------



## mmr007 (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> Watch China, not just militarily. Start to really watch them, who they're forming alliances with. You can laugh now, I'll laugh later.


What is China going to do that causes you to state that you anticipate living a life of laughter....for you specifically?


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 11, 2022)

AMOS said:


> ... I don't agree with Socialism ...
> 
> ... The ideal model for society is Anarcho-Primitivism ...



lmao dude I got news for you


----------



## narad (Sep 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> What is China going to do that causes you to state that you anticipate living a life of laughter....for you specifically?



In that world, I think I'm going to fair better learning kanji than he is stockpiling guns.


----------



## mmr007 (Sep 11, 2022)

I've been catching up on this thread and some of the opinions are truly interesting with regards to the queen and the monarchy in general. One of the prevalent themes is why do Britons want or need a monarchy in the 21st century especially if the position is largely ceremonial and perpetuated out of tradition rather than necessity. I dunno. Why do Americans insist on fighter planes doing precision tactical flyovers of every football game in any century? Tradition. Why do still have halloween when it is safer for children and cheaper for their parents to buy a bag of candy at walmart and have it delivered without ever needing to buy a costume? Tradition. Why do we insist on checking in with an oversized rodent in February for prognostications on weather? Why do we insist our US president go through the motions of the ceremonial pardoning of turkeys? Ceremony and tradition and I have to imagine Britons (not all of course) enjoy perpetuating something that is a part of their cultural heritage even if it is not as important as a hotdog eating contest on the 4th of July. I don't want to change the topic of this thread but it could easily be argued the second amendment is far more outdated than a monarchy and is actually counterproductive for tourist travel. Yet here we are.

Being a royal, even one who will never serve IS a job. You don't walk away from it because that means you are also walking away from your family, a family that has engrained in you that your job is a performance role that serves a benefit to others and you can never break character. That has to be exhausting to always live an unimpeachable existence without the benefits associated with it and if you argue boohoo they must be so sad with all that money I refer you to one of the oldest axioms in human history...."money can't buy....." oh never mind. It's easy to just quit Dairy Queen. Nobody cares. It is very hard to quit the actual queen as doing so affects your family and your country.

I also find it odd that people say...the queen is dead and I don't care. Then why do you comment? That's the opposite of caring. Whether you are in favor of a monarchy or not, she was one of the most significant rulers in human history, if only for longevity on the throne. She is significant, even if you disagree on the underlying value of her significance.


----------



## narad (Sep 11, 2022)

People ask why the UK needs a monarchy, but it's not so much that the US doesn't have a monarchy, it just has 330 million self-proclaimed monarchs in various states of success.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 11, 2022)

I will never understand the extreme "fOuNdInG FaThErS" type of Americans insisting that people be nice about the Queen. 

Like, really?


----------



## vilk (Sep 12, 2022)

several folks in this thread have suggested multiple times that royalty have to do this or that, be magnanimous, behave properly in the public eye, meet various high profile people, etc.... But also, they can abdicate if they don't feel like doing all that hard work...

But my question is: do they _have to _do anything? I mean, can they get fired if they don't fulfill their "duty" to go meet the pope or attend the Commonwealth meeting or whatever? 

Can't they just be like _nah fuck the pope_. And then people will be like, "are you gonna abdicate??" they can again say _nah not gonna abdicate._

Do they actually _have_ to be magnanimous or behave a certain way? Couldn't they just be a drunk asshole if they felt like it, provided that they don't break any laws? Everyone will say "nooo the king/queen/earl/whatever shouldn't behave like that!!" But they could just say _oh well what are you gonna do about it I'm the fucking king _and like go knight some horrible neo Nazi

Genuinely curious. I was under the impression that there have historically been more than a few extremely unpopular kings who did shit that people did not like and they just had to like suck it up and cope with having a shithead king until he died.


----------



## narad (Sep 12, 2022)

It's kind of weird to me how much of a "job" it is being treated as by some people. Sure, you can abdicate. Sure, you do it your own way. I don't see this as a far comparison to quitting your job or showing up to work all Patch Adams about things. You'd likely bring a deep shame to your entire family and/or go down in history as a disgrace. Your behavior would reflect poorly on an entire nation and have huge ramifications for the people of your country and how it is governed going forward. Like some people can opt out but each person that abdicates or distances themselves from the family puts even more responsibility on those left there, and at some point I think abdicating is not really an option as the consequences would be too severe.

And then the pros of this is supposed to be free food? Multiple large homes? Expensive things? You can't even have cool nice things... you have to have old stately versions of them.


----------



## thraxil (Sep 12, 2022)

vilk said:


> Genuinely curious. I was under the impression that there have historically been more than a few extremely unpopular kings who did shit that people did not like and they just had to like suck it up and cope with having a shithead king until he died.


*Historically*, if you were unpopular enough as a monarch, you got sent to the guillotine or one of your more popular relatives had you killed and took your place.


----------



## JimF (Sep 12, 2022)

I think, as a person from the North of England (born & bred), I have a slightly different attitude to some of the other British posters. The North/South divide is alive and well. The current government and aristocracy (who lean on the government) maintain the notion that the North is full of uneducated, unhealthy layabouts. I can only liken it to perhaps how some Americans may view the hillbilly/redneck states (I doubt that's too PC but forgive me). The fact the Royal Family exists, reinforces mentality that rather than a biological lottery of which vagina you come out of, that some people are simply born 'better' than others. It breeds classism. Chip on my shoulder perhaps. 

The Royal Family are irrelevant, publicly funded demigods. Yes, they bring in tourism, but has anyone actually done the numbers on how many of those people come to see the Royal Family, or just the buildings and historical sites, the Queen's guards etc.
And if they do come for a chance to see the Queen, Will & Kate, Harry etc, then its only to see a limited amount of the Royal Family. Nobody is coming from China for a chance to see Princess Eugenie or Prince Edward.

The Royal family cost the British public approx £100 million per year. But they bring in nearly £20 *b*illion. Yes, that pales in comparison, but I'd rather put that £100 million into the NHS. 

I agree the Royal Family are involved in some good deeds, but let's not pretend these deeds would go undone if it wasn't for them. They do plenty of charity work, but I'd rather the charities did the work themselves without involving this charade. It may bring exposure to the charity, but personally I would stop paying attention to any media the second Royal involvement is mentioned regardless of the story. I'm not interested. The Royal Family has no relevance to my life. 

I've actually been to a Royal Garden Party as a 'Plus 1'. It was a massive opulent display of decadence. It all felt wholly over the top and theatrical. It felt bad to have been walking past homeless people that same day, and then witness that. (I didn't want to attend, I was persuaded to go as moral support for the person who was invited, and felt completely uncomfortable for the whole time)

Yes, it's sad when anyone dies, but that is something that comes to us all. Perhaps people are being super empathetic and recalling their own personal losses and putting themselves in the Royal's shoes; but where is this mentality when it actually matters? When it actually makes a difference? Society seems more selfish than ever. In a time when the disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots" is increasing, food bank usage is at an all-time high, a cost-of-living crisis looming on the horizon and a change of Prime Minister almost guaranteed to make things worse for the majority of the working public, it doesn't sit right with me that all of the nation's compassion and empathy is directed this way, and then will be turned off again after the funeral.


TL;DR - Northern English man shouts at cloud.


----------



## thraxil (Sep 12, 2022)

JimF said:


> And if they do come for a chance to see the Queen, Will & Kate, Harry etc, then its only to see a limited amount of the Royal Family. Nobody is coming from China for a chance to see Princess Eugenie or Prince Edward.


Proposal: put Prince Andrew up in a stockade in Trafalgar Square and charge £1000 per rotten tomato to throw at him. See how much money that earns for UK tourism.


----------



## JimF (Sep 12, 2022)

Couldn't even get him in a courtroom!


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 12, 2022)

As far as I'm concerned, the death of any monarch is cause for celebration.

I thought we collectively decided that like a century ago. There were guillotines and everything. Maybe that's one of those "only 90s kids" things.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 12, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the death of any monarch is cause for celebration.


Yassssssss Queen.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 12, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Yassssssss Queen.



11/10, my tiara's off to you


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 12, 2022)

JimF said:


> The Royal family cost the British public approx £100 million per year. But they bring in nearly £20 *b*illion. Yes, that pales in comparison, but I'd rather put that £100 million into the NHS.


Can you cite that? Just curious.


----------



## tayistay (Sep 12, 2022)

JimF said:


> The Royal family cost the British public approx £100 million per year. But they bring in nearly £20 *b*illion. Yes, that pales in comparison, but I'd rather put that £100 million into the NHS.



Wait hold on. As an American, I'm no monarchist, but wouldn't it be better to put that 20bn - 100m = 19.9 bn into the NHS?


----------



## tayistay (Sep 12, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I will never understand the extreme "fOuNdInG FaThErS" type of Americans insisting that people be nice about the Queen.
> 
> Like, really?



Well the American revolution aside, it's a fairly consistent reverence for authority and tradition. It's not my thing at all, but I get it.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 12, 2022)

tayistay said:


> Well the American revolution aside, it's a fairly consistent reverence for authority and tradition. It's not my thing at all, but I get it.



amerikans actually love authority, they just like to cosplay otherwise

pls tread daddy


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 12, 2022)

For a group that licks the barrels of the 2A because they are scared of the government... they sure do love authority figures.


----------



## JimF (Sep 13, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Can you cite that? Just curious.



I sure can my man, I had to google the figures for my original post:









How much does the Royal Family cost the British taxpayer?


A report from June 2022 revealed that the royal family cost the British people £102.4 million during the previous year.




britishheritage.com












This is how much the royal family costs Britain each year


The total taxpayer-funded Sovereign Grant came to £86.3 million in 2021-2022




www.independent.co.uk












How much does Royal Family cost taxpayers - and how much do they bring in tourism?


Our royal correspondent Rhiannon Mills gives the rundown on how much taxpayers are putting towards the Royal Family, and whether this is made up for by tourism.




news.sky.com












The staggering sum of money the Royal Family brings into Britain ex...


THE ROYAL FAMILY is synonymous with Britain and draws millions of tourists to the UK every year but how much money does the House of Windsor actually bring to the economy?




www.express.co.uk












The Queen’s staggering contribution to the UK economy laid bare


AMONG the Queen's countless contributions to her country, the monarch played an integral role in the billions of pounds the Royal Family are estimated to generate for the British economy each year.




www.express.co.uk












How much is the Royal Family really worth to the UK?


Prince Harry will marry Meghan Markle in the St George Chapel of Windsor Castle on Saturday 19 May. The cost of the wedding itself – the food, the Ralph & Russo Couture dress etc – will be picked by the Royal Family.




www.independent.co.uk





However this article seems to support what I'd thought all along, and that they're attributing the entire British tourism takings to the monarchy...
https://www.republic.org.uk/tourism 

If anything, I'd happily support the idea that the Royal Family costs us more than they net back, I was just trying to be balanced. Perhaps its one of those things that can't really be measured. Do you go to the pub for the crisps & beer equally, or do you get the crisps because they're there whilst you're getting beer. You could argue both sides if you were clever enough.




tayistay said:


> Wait hold on. As an American, I'm no monarchist, but wouldn't it be better to put that 20bn - 100m = 19.9 bn into the NHS?



Oh of course, without a doubt. But I wasn't focussing on that side of the equation. I was proposing the thought exercise of whether tourism would really drop that much without a living Royal Family. With no Royal Family to fund, and tourism still thriving, that would mean that 100m was now freed up for other purposes. But that's guesswork on my side. 
I'd say its harder for a British person to put themselves in the shoes of a tourist coming to see the Royal Family, than for a non-Brit putting themselves in the position of a UK citizen currently residing under this pantomime of a monarchy.


----------



## CanserDYI (Sep 13, 2022)

Versailles gets millions more visitors per year with their leaders being beheaded. Just saying.


----------



## JimF (Sep 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Versailles gets millions more visitors per year with their leaders being beheaded. Just saying.



I 100% agree. I only included the info about the tourism income being a net positive to be balanced.


----------



## StevenC (Sep 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Versailles gets millions more visitors per year with their leaders being beheaded. Just saying.


I've been to London loads of times, but never Buckingham Palace. I've been to all the museums at least once, so maybe there's something to this.


----------



## beerandbeards (Sep 13, 2022)

As a defendant of Gaul, fuck Caesar and the Roman Empire


----------



## narad (Sep 13, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I've been to London loads of times, but never Buckingham Palace. I've been to all the museums at least once, so maybe there's something to this.


I believe it was SSO that taught me that going to London was basically just rolling the dice in terms of falling victim to a terrorist attack. Glad you managed to survive.


----------



## bostjan (Sep 13, 2022)

If you visit Buckingham Palace as a tourist, do you even get to go inside?

And as far as monarchies go, there are still a bunch of them around the world. I doubt the UK is currently the most fiendish one by any measure. But, like, in Thailand, you can be executed for insulting the monarch. It doesn't really happen, but it is a law on the books, so it _could_ happen. But you also have Saudi Arabia, which is a place where such a debate would not be just academic.

I've seen on some other places online, people discussing whether Charles III will try to invade the USA. People online can be nuttier than squirrel turds.


----------



## tedtan (Sep 13, 2022)

As an American, I would visit as a tourist to see historical sites and museums; royalty wouldn’t matter to me.

But I do know a few Americans, mostly women, who are intrigued by royalty; maybe they wanted to be princesses when they grew up.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 13, 2022)

bostjan said:


> If you visit Buckingham Palace as a tourist, do you even get to go inside?


Yes you can go inside Buck Palace, you can go in most of the Royal Palaces. Its how they partly funded the restoration of Windsor Castle after the fire in the early 90s

I been inside and just the old money dripping from every wall and table it's beyond being able to describe, but on the other hand the bits you obviously don't see, the Palace like Parliament and others is also a shithole. Mate worked on some electrical stuff there and the whole place needs billions spent in it to modernise it


----------



## pondman (Sep 13, 2022)

This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.

A 96 year year old women died last week. The longest reigning monarch in history and a world wide respected queen. She never put a foot wrong and served her duty with the greatest respect for this country.

What he hell did she ever do wrong to deserve such a shit show ?


----------



## zappatton2 (Sep 13, 2022)

Yeah, I am fundamentally opposed to the concept of monarchy and the sordid legacy of colonialism, but I can't lay that reflexive distaste at Queen Elizabeth's feet, she served with a measured dignity that should be the envy of even elected officials. I won't be dancing on her grave, even though I welcome a shift away from our colonial legacy.

Sort of like how I consider multi-billionaires a modern perversion of our modern economic system and its increasing concentration of wealth, but still consider Bill Gates a genuine force for good, despite his membership in that very club.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 13, 2022)

tedtan said:


> maybe they wanted to be princesses when they grew up.



dude I _still _fantasize about my Snow White phase whenever a wild animal gets within 10 feet of me.

Logic brain: That is a wild animal, don't touch it, it's only getting close to you because other stupid people are feeding it cheetos.

Princess brain: YOU ARE A BEAUTIFUL WOODLAND PRINCESS PET THE FUCKING DEER



zappatton2 said:


> Sort of like how I consider multi-billionaires a modern perversion of our modern economic system and its increasing concentration of wealth, but still consider Bill Gates a genuine force for good, despite his membership in that very club.



Gates, like the queen, has been involved in his share of sketchy, underhanded bullshit that is part and parcel with being a billionaire and/or monarch in an imperialist nation. All of the whacky conspiracy theories about him and especially the B&MGF have been a PR blessing, because many of them contain kernels of truth that have been swept away in a torrent of antivaxx Qanon pizzafencing.


----------



## tayistay (Sep 13, 2022)

zappatton2 said:


> but still consider Bill Gates a genuine force for good



Don't know if this applies to Gates, but I'm reminded of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winners_Take_All:_The_Elite_Charade_of_Changing_the_World

Thesis: "Giridharadas argues that members of the global elite, though sometimes engaged in philanthropy, use their wealth and influence to preserve systems that concentrate wealth at the top at the expense of societal progress."


----------



## StevenC (Sep 13, 2022)

tayistay said:


> Don't know if this applies to Gates, but I'm reminded of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winners_Take_All:_The_Elite_Charade_of_Changing_the_World
> 
> Thesis: "Giridharadas argues that members of the global elite, though sometimes engaged in philanthropy, use their wealth and influence to preserve systems that concentrate wealth at the top at the expense of societal progress."


Something tells me that Zapp will find that uncontroversial.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 13, 2022)

tayistay said:


> Don't know if this applies to Gates, but I'm reminded of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winners_Take_All:_The_Elite_Charade_of_Changing_the_World
> 
> Thesis: "Giridharadas argues that members of the global elite, though sometimes engaged in philanthropy, use their wealth and influence to preserve systems that concentrate wealth at the top at the expense of societal progress."



This is basically the core criticism of the B&MGF, based on dozens of real world examples ranging from interventionist activities in many developing nations to their sway over the shape of amerikan public education. 

Leon "We'll Coup Whoever We Want" Skum is another great example. Less than a decade ago everyone was sucking his dick for handing out his Tesla patents, now he doesn't even need to bother with performative philanthropy because the US Government will coup entire countries if he needs them to, and he can just publicly be a real-life Lex Luthor. 

In both cases, there is a readily-apparent and deep-seated interest in preserving and furthering the neoliberal model that gave birth to them, combined with delusions of benevolent, sublime, eminently paternal godhood.


----------



## tayistay (Sep 13, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Leon "We'll Coup Whoever We Want" Skum is another great example.


lol it took me a moment to figure that one out


----------



## profwoot (Sep 13, 2022)

pondman said:


> This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.
> 
> A 96 year year old women died last week. The longest reigning monarch in history and a world wide respected queen. She never put a foot wrong and served her duty with the greatest respect for this country.
> 
> What he hell did she ever do wrong to deserve such a shit show ?


yes, yes, *my stars* the insolence. Sure, she led a completely unearned life of ridiculous opulence on the backs of her people and silently oversaw [thereby offering tacit approval of] various atrocities against her colonial subjects, but she had_ impeccable_ manners. Like _royalty_.


----------



## tayistay (Sep 13, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Sure, she led a completely unearned life of ridiculous opulence on the backs of her people


Did you see that scene in The Crown where the guy breaks into her bedroom and, after noticing that things are in disrepair, offers her his services fixing things up? I don't disagree with you, but that scene was funny.


----------



## thraxil (Sep 14, 2022)

pondman said:


> This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.
> 
> A 96 year year old women died last week. The longest reigning monarch in history and a world wide respected queen. She never put a foot wrong and served her duty with the greatest respect for this country.
> 
> What he hell did she ever do wrong to deserve such a shit show ?


I mean, you could start with the Mau Mau Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion#British_war_crimes

Then read up on all the other colonial uprisings that were fought and violently suppressed during her reign. All without so much as a peep of disapproval from the reigning monarch.

And then, like, the whole Northern Ireland thing.

Recently, her protection of Prince Andrew, a credibly accused child rapist. And you know, I get defending your son and don't necessarily blame her for that, but you can't see that and then ask "why do people not like her?"

Finally, if one believes that the very idea of "monarchy" is offensive, with its fundamental notion that certain people are better than others or entitled to certain things that others aren't simply because they were descended from the right historical murderous, thieving sociopaths, then simply being "the longest reigning monarch in history" is an adequate reason for people to not be a fan.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 14, 2022)

British Cycling removes advice telling members not to ride during funeral for Queen

Obviously at first glance this is one of many ridiculous decisions of things that have been closed or cancelled "..as a mark of respect..." including most seriously some NHS trusts cancelling appointments and surgery on the 19th, and so this is easy to rip in to and funny, stupid so on

*BUT* as James O'Brien is quite rightly pointing out this morning, the reason for these decisions and then the reversals is the terror of NHS trusts, the Premier League, British Cycling, Centreparks etc of being giving a fcuking shoeing & bullied (as ever) by the English Right Wing press - the Daily Mail, Express & Sun - who are obviously experts in the rights and wrongs of respect for others

They really are fcuked if they do and fcuked if they don't tbh, the goverment have poorly planned for this event and have issued no guidance on what is and isn't supposed to happen... but then this is the Vote Leave tory goverment so thats hardly surprising


----------



## StevenC (Sep 14, 2022)

Louis Cypher said:


> British Cycling removes advice telling members not to ride during funeral for Queen
> 
> Obviously at first glance this is one of many ridiculous decisions of things that have been closed or cancelled "..as a mark of respect..." including most seriously some NHS trusts cancelling appointments and surgery on the 19th, and so this is easy to rip in to and funny, stupid so on
> 
> ...


As if junior doctors don't have it bad enough, exams scheduled for Monday are cancelled.


----------



## JimF (Sep 14, 2022)

Louis Cypher said:


> *BUT* as James O'Brien is quite rightly pointing out this morning, the reason for these decisions and then the reversals is the terror of NHS trusts, the Premier League, British Cycling, Centreparks etc of being giving a fcuking shoeing & bullied (as ever) by the English Right Wing press - the Daily Mail, Express & Sun - who are obviously experts in the rights and wrongs of respect for others



100% this. The football was cancelled but the cricket etc managed to proceed. Now I passionately dislike football but it's obvious that the "commoners" sports would get a pasting from the press had they proceeded.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 14, 2022)

JimF said:


> 100% this. The football was cancelled but the cricket etc managed to proceed. Now I passionately dislike football but it's obvious that the "commoners" sports would get a pasting from the press had they proceeded.


Pro football players always get a kicking, they are always the first the Gov or press say should pay more tax even though nearly everyone of them is full PAYE on their wages and then the last few years with them taking the knee for the BLM movement has just made them cannon fodder for the right wing, so you can easily see why the Premier league bottled it and cancelled the games


----------



## StevenC (Sep 14, 2022)

Charles appoints his known paedophile brother to step in for him if he is ill or out of the country.

That's a bad fucking start.

Dude should fucking abdicate already.


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 14, 2022)

JimF said:


> 100% this. The football was cancelled but the cricket etc managed to proceed. Now I passionately dislike football but it's obvious that the "commoners" sports would get a pasting from the press had they proceeded.


To be fair, cricket grounds need less police presence. If nothing else, they simply have less butts in the seats.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 14, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Charles appoints his known paedophile brother to step in for him if he is ill or out of the country.
> 
> That's a bad fucking start.
> 
> Dude should fucking abdicate already.


Tbf fact checking that, even the BBC are getting this wrong. Andrew is a counselor of state by birth right and became one when he turned 21 so he could have stood in for the Queen at any point in the last 40 odd years. So he isn't or hasnt been chosen. The Regency act that covers this doesn't legislate for removing any of the counselors of state, as there are a number of them and Andrew is just one of them. Tbf to Charles he can't remove him without a law change but if the situation arises where Charles is ill or whatever then others can be chosen to "deputise"for the King. Probably be William as Prince of Wales


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Sep 14, 2022)

pondman said:


> This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.



New around here?


----------



## tayistay (Sep 14, 2022)

pondman said:


> This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.


Surely there's are more toxic thread than this. Seems fairly tame to me.


----------



## ArtDecade (Sep 14, 2022)

pondman said:


> This has got to be the most toxic thread I've ever seen on this forum.
> 
> A 96 year year old women died last week. The longest reigning monarch in history and a world wide respected queen. She never put a foot wrong and served her duty with the greatest respect for this country.
> 
> What he hell did she ever do wrong to deserve such a shit show ?


It has little to do with her and everything she represents. That is not exactly a nuance that needs to be explained.


----------



## vilk (Sep 14, 2022)




----------



## Louis Cypher (Sep 15, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> It has little to do with her and everything she represents. That is not exactly a nuance that needs to be explained.


Although I do agree with @pondman that some of the posts on this thread are... excessive lets say, but @ArtDecade is right the anti monarchy sentiment, even if its expressed as BS bile, is more to do with what the position and what the institution represents rather than the woman herself. I think personally, that Charles and the Monarchy have a huge problem to deal with over the next few years, not from the UK all the while the Gov and Press reinforce our insane class system and how the poor need for deference and respect for there betters, but the Commonwealth countries where the King is still head of state are gonna give the UK a reality check, especially the Caribbean countries with reparations demands and Independance.

Also the bubble around the Queens passing here seems to showing now sign of bursting, today there are calls for the date of her death to be made a perm bank holiday, basically for no other reason other than she was a lovely woman who reigned for a long time with duty and humility. No other Monarch has a bank holiday, inc the likes of Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Edward III or Henry VI, not even her dad or Grandad who were king during WWII and WWI respectively have a Bank Holiday, but 100k people have signed a petion for one (more likely most just want another day off and couldn't care less for the reason)

Plus, really insanely, talk of officially marking her as Queen Elizabeth the Great......... There is a reason why only 1 King in British history is considered The Great, he did quite a lot more than just live for a long time

Edit: forgot to add as well that the usual rags have dedicated articles to the fact that Meghan and Harry were disrepsectful yesterday as they left the ceremony for the Queen lying in state because as they left *THEY HELD HANDS!!! *How dare they show a sign of affection and comfort each other, so disrespectful to the Queen and her memory, none of the other Royal couples held hands or comforted each other in public..... Godforbid that Meghan should look to help her husband after he basically had to recreate the same procession behind his Grand Mothers coffin that he did 25 yrs ago (almost to the week) behind his own mothers coffin, for no other reason than to keep the public happy and protect his dad from abuse from the crowd. As I posted above the press are looking for reason to give anyone a kicking over "disrespecting the Queen", lack of enough black being worn, or missing tie on TV presenters.... Its Poppy/Rememberance day fundamentalisim resurfacing


----------

