# New ESP 8...?



## Van Heezey (Jan 12, 2011)

SC-208 Stephen Carpenter Signature 8-String 2011 Electric Guitar - Black


Is this something new? Or am I being really dumb right now? Haven't seen anything on the website yet about this.


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## BrainArt (Jan 12, 2011)

It's a new 2011 model, yes.


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## Van Heezey (Jan 12, 2011)

Awesome! I'm gonna have to look into that further. Do you know the scale length?


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## possumkiller (Jan 12, 2011)

25.5 inches of pure baritone madness!


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## BrainArt (Jan 12, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> 25.5 inches of pure baritone madness!



 I see what you did there.


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## Van Heezey (Jan 12, 2011)

Ugh... If only it was a 27"


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## MikeH (Jan 12, 2011)

That's probably the only reason I'm not buying one of these is the 25.5" scale.


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## troyguitar (Jan 12, 2011)

It's pretty much the only 25.5" 8-string in production right now AFAIK, leave it be.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Jan 12, 2011)

And its got a non-reversed headstock. It looks silly non-reversed with 8 tuners.


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## noizfx (Jan 12, 2011)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> And its got a non-reversed headstock. It looks silly non-reversed with 8 tuners.



Why I actually like 8 in a line tuners on a non-reversed headstock!

This is not ESP's first 8-string model but for some reason this is their first 25.5" scale 8-string, other Stephen Carpenter 8-string models are all 27" scale.

ESP also had non-signature 8-strings before but they were all 27" scale, really don't understand they came out with a 25.5" scale this time, it will be hard finding thick enough strings to tune down to a F# on that!


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## FrostyTheDroMan (Jan 12, 2011)

Short scale and under $500... probably sounds like poo


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## BlackStar7 (Jan 13, 2011)

Ucccccck....what're they doing making it 25.5?!


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## Explorer (Jan 13, 2011)

noizfx said:


> ESP also had non-signature 8-strings before but they were all 27" scale, really don't understand they came out with a 25.5" scale this time, it will be hard finding thick enough strings to tune down to a F# on that!



I understand the differentiation between ESP and LTD guitars, but I'll point out that I've had no problem finding guitar-ball .090 strings for the low E1 on my two 25.5" LTD FM-408 guitars. I also had one of them tuned all the way down to Ab0, but I'm moving away from full fifths, and back to an E1 to D4 tuning.



FrostyTheDroMan said:


> Short scale and under $500... probably sounds like poo



Regarding my instruments sounding like poo, you are incorrect. That's why I even have a semicustom Intrepid Pro Dual 25.5" on order and coming in May.

I will instead make the observation that whoever asserts that such an instrument would sound like poo either has clearly not done enough in terms of string tension research and a pro set up, or is just repeating what they're heard without actually trying it.


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## FrostyTheDroMan (Jan 13, 2011)

Not trying to knock your instruments, I've just had poor experiences playing short scale ERGs. Just my opinion


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## Eric Christian (Jan 13, 2011)

FrostyTheDroMan said:


> Not trying to knock your instruments, I've just had poor experiences playing short scale ERGs. Just my opinion


 
Personally, I don't really get the idea of having a short scale ERG unless of course you're going to tune it up something like low B to high E or whatever. My buddy has one of those LTD 8 strings and when you tune it to F# Standard the F# string doesn't sound so hot.


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## alexguge (Jan 13, 2011)

Eric Christian said:


> Personally, I don't really get the idea of having a short scale ERG unless of course you're going to tune it up something like low B to high E or whatever. My buddy has one of those LTD 8 strings and when you tune it to F# Standard the F# string doesn't sound so hot.



He probably needs a heavier gauge.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jan 13, 2011)

Explorer said:


> .



I've tried, and while its doable it does sound pretty awful (IMO) it lacks a lot of clarity and gets overly bassy. 

BUT! that doesn't mean it sounds bad, just for me, for someone else that dark murky tone could be exactly what their looking for.

Also this may come as a shock to everyone else in the thread but you can tune UP! *GASP* instead of down!

If I ever had an 8 string my intent was to tune up to Ab / G# standard with a high F# so the 25.5" would be no issue at all actually preferred. Though multiscale is always better 

Nice to see another 8 string option at a low price point


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## Winspear (Jan 13, 2011)

Tune it with a high string
I personally wouldn't tune down below G# or so without a baritone. Even Tosins 27" .080 low E sounds like flub when you watch his video lessons.


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## cow 7 sig (Jan 13, 2011)

just get the 608B,far better in every way


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## Peteus (Jan 13, 2011)

Not a bad idea having a 25.5" its perfect for those who tune up. Another thing to consider is we still haven't see the specs so this is still speculation! Images are deciving!


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 13, 2011)

I personally find even 27" to be a tad short for an 8 string, theres no way I'd want a 25.5". Wish they'd hurry up and release his tele 7 string.


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## adrock (Jan 13, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Wish they'd hurry up and release his tele 7 string.


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## possumkiller (Jan 13, 2011)

I thought the FM418 was 25.5 scale also?


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 13, 2011)

It is sir.


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 13, 2011)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> And its got a non-reversed headstock. It looks silly non-reversed with 8 tuners.





noizfx said:


> Why I actually like 8 in a line tuners on a non-reversed headstock!
> 
> This is not ESP's first 8-string model but for some reason this is their first 25.5" scale 8-string, other Stephen Carpenter 8-string models are all 27" scale.
> 
> ESP also had non-signature 8-strings before but they were all 27" scale, really don't understand they came out with a 25.5" scale this time, it will be hard finding thick enough strings to tune down to a F# on that!



I honestly think that ANY of the ESP 8-strings would look kinda gaff with a revo'd head. I've got 3 M107's and have waited a LONG 10+ years to finally have an ESP 7 WITHOUT that damn revo head. And besides, I like the look of the ESP 8-string head compared to the NAMM Jackson 8-string head... And I totally disagree with the fact that just because it's under a certain price with certain features it's gotta sound like shit... My SC-207 has become the next best guitar I've owned (outside of my Green Kamikaze that is - still the all-time fave!!!) once I put the EMG 707TW's in it. Something so simple as a pickup swap can do wonders for some cheaper guitars!!! 

As for it being a 25 1/2" scale length, I think I would honestly favor it instead of the 27", just for the simple fact that trying to get strings in a certain/desired length is going to be a nightmare. I go thru enough of a hassle just getting the .70's for my 8th.

And I have NO issues what so ever with it being tuned to the F#, even for a standard scale and using a 70 instead of the 68 it came with. I also (Just MY thoughts on this...) think that using anything over a 72 is just demented... Am I the only one who sees the REAL nightmare of trying to get the nut replaced afterwards because that duke-ass string ground the shit out of the nut???  The other thing I'd like to know is what kind of string gauges are you guys using for the rest if your using something like a 80 or a 90??? Again, this is just me - but I am one in favor of keeping a nice and even string gauge thru-out.



Eric Christian said:


> Personally, I don't really get the idea of having a short scale ERG unless of course you're going to tune it up something like low B to high E or whatever. My buddy has one of those LTD 8 strings and when you tune it to F# Standard the F# string doesn't sound so hot.



I found that at first when I got mine a little over a year ago. I say it's all in what you play it thru, and the 808's are just not quite the right pickup to better break up some of that low-end of the F#. Now if they would have went with the 808X's stock, you'd be a lot more satisfied with the tone. The 808X's help break up some of that muddiness and even the tone out of the rest of the strings and the guitar. And of course EQ'ing the amp and/or effects/processor will further help get a better tone and sound from the F#...

Although, the possibilities for different tunings like the B-E w/ high A ect. make it useful for those who think that the low F# is too much or want to do something different... Ain't nothing wrong with that...



vampiregenocide said:


> Wish they'd hurry up and release his tele 7 string.



 +1, YES!!! I would be all over it like dead on Elvis!!! I'm not much of a Tele guy, but that is one Tele I'd be in a frantic madness to get!!!


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## Ben.Last (Jan 13, 2011)

Soooooo much stupidity. This thread is like an orgy of misinformation and... wrongness


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## troyguitar (Jan 14, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> I thought the FM418 was 25.5 scale also?



Yes but it's discontinued AFAIK.


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## ralphy1976 (Jan 14, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Wish they'd hurry up and release his *tele 8 string reverse headstock*.



Fixed!!!


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## Winspear (Jan 14, 2011)

Kamikaze7 said:


> As for it being a 25 1/2" scale length, I think I would honestly favor it instead of the 27", just for the simple fact that trying to get strings in a certain/desired length is going to be a nightmare. I go thru enough of a hassle just getting the .70's for my 8th.
> 
> And I have NO issues what so ever with it being tuned to the F#, even for a standard scale and using a 70 instead of the 68 it came with. I also (Just MY thoughts on this...) think that using anything over a 72 is just demented... Am I the only one who sees the REAL nightmare of trying to get the nut replaced afterwards because that duke-ass string ground the shit out of the nut???  The other thing I'd like to know is what kind of string gauges are you guys using for the rest if your using something like a 80 or a 90??? Again, this is just me - but I am one in favor of keeping a nice and even string gauge thru-out.



Of course it will vary on where you are from - but it's no issue to get a 70 gauge over here. I order on StringsDirect.com - got three of them the other day for 24 hour delivery.
Anyway - just to point out - you say you want to keep smaller gauges. A longer scale length allows you to use smaller gauges for the same tension. And I can't see how a string would not be long enough? I usually cut a good 5 inches off of mine after I've strung up.


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## ittoa666 (Jan 14, 2011)

For some reason, every time I see a rosewood neck on lower priced guitars, it looks gross. Can't stand cheap fingerboards.


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## Philligan (Jan 14, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> For some reason, every time I see a rosewood neck on lower priced guitars, it looks gross. Can't stand cheap fingerboards.



 Especially on black guitars.


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## Customisbetter (Jan 14, 2011)

You guys are so picky.


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## JPhoenix19 (Jan 14, 2011)

oh lord, 25.5" scale ERG hate. 

I, for one, had no trouble at all with the FM-408 I used to have. I'd actually say I'd prefer the standard scale length- if for nothing else, for alternate tunings higher than F# (as others pointed out).

This 25.5"-scale ERG debate gets real old, real fast.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 14, 2011)

If a lot of people share the same opinion on something, then clearly it makes sense. Basses have long scales because they need the extra tension, and with 8 strings you start heading into the bass range. It it logical to have an extended scale, standard for me is just not tight enough. You can add thicker strings on, but then the tone starts to suffer. What people are highlighting here is a genuine concern. Fair enough, if you want to use higher tunings or whatever then thats cool, but you are kinda in a minority.  I think its unfair to call it 'hate' like the fact people don't want EMGs all the time. Some people like them, a lot of people don't.


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## troyguitar (Jan 14, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> If a lot of people share the same opinion on something, then clearly it makes sense.



A lot of people share the opinion that 7-string guitars are pointless and 8-string guitars are a complete joke.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 14, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> A lot of people share the opinion that 7-string guitars are pointless and 8-string guitars are a complete joke.


 
Touche.  Different levels though.


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## Randy (Jan 14, 2011)

I will be buying one of these.


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## conorreich (Jan 14, 2011)

^ Me too. If nothing else because of the standard scale. I had an intepid with a 28in scale and I loved it, f# isn't my thing.


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 14, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Of course it will vary on where you are from - but it's no issue to get a 70 gauge over here. I order on StringsDirect.com - got three of them the other day for 24 hour delivery.
> Anyway - just to point out - you say you want to keep smaller gauges. A longer scale length allows you to use smaller gauges for the same tension. And I can't see how a string would not be long enough? I usually cut a good 5 inches off of mine after I've strung up.



After I found that I can get the singles I need right from Ernie Ball and delivered in 2-3 days, that issue has been taken care of. The only reason I say that length is sometimes an issue is that on longer scaled guitars, or those with reverse headstocks will sometimes take the string almost right to the end. Then by the time you wind it, your snipping off hardly anything and just barely getting the string to the tuner. 

As for tensions, I use an even gauging thru out. For example, I'm still using a set of Regular Slinky 10's (10 - 56) with a 70 for my 8 and have no issues with tension, and find that it's not too loose or too tight at a standard factory F# tuning. I also use the 10's on my 7's tuned std E and Eb tunings, 11's (11 - 58) for my D w/ low A tuning, and the Beefy Slinky's with a 62 for my C# w/ low G# tuning. I am not doubting anyone's issues with their choice on gauges and tensions... I just find that going too thick/heavy won't feel right - like tension is too tight. 

But it's like I said in one of my other posts, "What works for one, don't always work for someone else" and I am accepting and open to that. I guess I'm just kinda surprised and bewildered to hear of others using such a really heavy gauging for such tuning. 

As for the new ESP SC-208 and being a standard scale and not an extended scale, some will like/love it for what it is, and others won't.


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## Explorer (Jan 14, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> If a lot of people share the same opinion on something, then clearly it makes sense.



Actually, it doesn't. 

Keep in mind, though, that I have a lot of experience with more than just guitars, and I've worked with a lot of instruments which had extremely variable vibrating string lengths (more so than the guitar family). I've had builders tell me that something wouldn't work, and after they refused to work with me, I altered the instrument and removed all labels and markings, so the builder wouldn't have to deal with having an instrument out there which was clearly impossible by their standards. 

I'll argue that a lot of people do *not* have a clear idea of how string tension works and feels, either progressive or even throughout. Those people also will never have worked on a Rhodes or other electric piano, or with hammered dulcimers, or worked closely with the inter-related trio of string parameters, tension, length and mass, which yield pitch. 

Basically, I'll trust those who really know their shit, and who make a living with it, and who make a living building the kinds of things the majority say cannot be done. If someone is just on the internet and I have no reason to put their opinion above my own observation, why should I? 

I will freely affirm the following, though, which is all anyone can really affirm honestly: If someone insists it cannot be done, that I will agree that either they never tried it, and are therefore just repeating what they heard, or that they tried it but never got it down.

Incidentally, if there are lot of people repeating it who have never tried it at all, wouldn't that negate the idea that a majority are speaking from experience? And, if so, wouldn't that negate the idea that they are adding critical mass to an idea based on being informed, as opposed to just herd mentality?

----

I know what I've managed to do, and I think I've shared information in my posts about the process. I know eleven-string Adam has also shared a lot of information, and I have no reason to doubt his honesty. 

Of those who talk about how it doesn't work, I *never* the same amount of detail regarding the string calculations (including resources pertaining to them) or any other work involved, including set up.

I'm of the strong opinion that a lot of those who *might* have tried it just chose a string which was slightly bigger, but who never figured out the actual gauge to match their target tension. That's the impression I get of those posts, in the same way I get the impression that Distressed Romeo has really put in the work when he does alternate tunings. 

----

Just some thoughts, of course. I'm sure those who have posted in this thread about how it hasn't worked for them will now talk about what gauges they used and what tension they normally go for, and disprove my theory that they never got that far.

Cheers!


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## kevdes93 (Jan 15, 2011)

my omen 8 26.5 scale is actually not that bad at all. kinda curious to see if there is actually a huge difference by the scale length. ill probably buy one soon as a compulsive guitar and gear buyer.


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## ixlramp (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm tempted. But it may have an ugly old-fashioned neck bolt plate like the SC207 and the Schecters. Not sure I could live with something so traditional.


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## serazac25 (Jan 16, 2011)

so...anyone seen the esp's 2011 catalog? no? ok...

http://www.espguitars.com/ESP-2011-Catalog.pdf 

hope it works with you, don't if its just me because of my internetzz or some other problem, the front page was gus g with his signature star but with blackouts.


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## Daevasmodeus (Jan 16, 2011)

serazac25 said:


> so...anyone seen the esp's 2011 catalog? no? ok...
> 
> http://www.espguitars.com/ESP-2011-Catalog.pdf
> 
> hope it works with you, don't if its just me because of my internetzz or some other problem, the front page was gus g with his signature star but with blackouts.



Try right clicking on the link and save the pdf to your computer. It isn't working in my browser for some reason.


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## ixlramp (Jan 16, 2011)

Okay, looking at the catalogue, it is confirmed as a 25.5" scale.


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## serazac25 (Jan 16, 2011)

Yeah, it openned in FireFox but it din't work on Chrome T_T . 

I thought the new H 7 strings came also in STBC , the catalog doesn't mention that option,and at the site it does...meh, but then again black cherry is being over done almost like black and See-Thru black...

I wouldn't mind if they over do silver burst finishes or whatever


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## ixlramp (Jan 19, 2011)

Specs from catalogue:

Bolt-On Construction
25.5 Scale
Basswood Body
Maple Neck
Rosewood Fingerboard
54mm Standard Nut
Thin U Neck Contour
24 XJ Frets
Chrome Hardware
ESP Tuners
Fixed Bridge
ESP LH-308 (B & N) p.u.
Finish: BLK

Good to see passive pickups instead of a cheap active system as seen on the Ibanez RGA8.

The SC-208 would be ideal for compressed tunings like all-thirds.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 19, 2011)

possumkiller said:


> 25.5 inches of pure baritone madness!


 
ugh! floppy, flubby loose F# thats fucking disgusting it'll sound muddy as hell.


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## troyguitar (Jan 19, 2011)

rythmic_pulses said:


> ugh! floppy, flubby loose F# thats fucking disgusting it'll sound muddy as hell.



ugh! worthless posts showing up as new causing me to waste time and brain power reading them.

Your ignorance is the only thing that's fucking disgusting here.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 19, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> ugh! worthless posts showing up as new causing me to waste time and brain power reading them.
> 
> Your ignorance is the only thing that's fucking disgusting here.


 
don't be so harsh man i was just pointing out what i thought about the scale.


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## Explorer (Jan 19, 2011)

I like that someone complained to me, after I bowed out, that I had predicted a return to "idiocy." *laugh*

Anyway, rythmic pulses, I hate to ask yet another person this, but here goes:

Why not post your experiences with down-tuning, and the gauges you used? That will make it clear that you actually know what you're talking about, instead of just speculating without knowing. 

Or, is this yet another newbie adding to the consensus without any experience behind it?

Hopefully, it won't be ignorance.

Cheers, and welcome! 

Cheers!


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 19, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I like that someone complained to me, after I bowed out, that I had predicted a return to "idiocy." *laugh*
> 
> Anyway, rythmic pulses, I hate to ask yet another person this, but here goes:
> 
> ...


 
i have a bit of expierience with all sorts of extended range instruments mainly 7 and 8 strings that were baritones, i had a friend at a guitar shop in the city not so far away and he used to give me a call if they got a new eight or seven so i've played loads of them cause he wanted me to try them out to see if they were any good plus i got a little cash for it .

Anyways the eights i played on were schecter's, ibanez's and ESP's that ranged from 26.5" to 27", the only 30" was a Custom Ibanez that they had been given for selling so many Ibanez's  i didn't believe him at all i think he ordered it for his shop to make a profit.

string gauge wise he strung them up with a 72 on the 8th string and a 52 on the 7th and a 46 for the 6th he did that with every eight so i could make out the tension on all of the guitars.

then one day he brought an ESP FM 418 into the shop and strug up with the gauges as above the F# was horrendously loose and i told him what scale was it and he said a 25.5"  i was horrified and i said there was no way the scale could stand up to a string that big so he put an .80 on it, it became a little bit more playable, but after the 12 fret it still wasn't true to pitch so i told him it was out of my hands.

he never called again after that. 

plus by the way sorry for being rude or anything i just came across this site a while ago.


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## MTech (Jan 19, 2011)

Kamikaze7 said:


> After I found that I can get the singles I need right from Ernie Ball and delivered in 2-3 days, that issue has been taken care of. The only reason I say that length is sometimes an issue is that on longer scaled guitars, or those with reverse headstocks will sometimes take the string almost right to the end. Then by the time you wind it, your snipping off hardly anything and just barely getting the string to the tuner.



It's not like it's hard to get big strings you can get them right off Just Strings and places like Big City Music even carry LaBella constantly which have normal packs that go clear up to 90's and since they actually make their own strings and do so by hand you can order any gauge you want. EVerybody has a different feel for tensions and IMO most guys that seem to post on here are crazy with the gauges and tensions they insist on using so here's some food for thought....
I caught up with Dino @ NAMM and Tech talked for a good bit and he's only using 10-46 w/ a 54 for his 7th and a 64 for his 8th.
ATB have a tone I love when it comes to 8's as it's extremely clean and articulate and it's all from a 9-74 set with slammed action that doesn't buzz.



rythmic_pulses said:


> then one day he brought an ESP FM 418 into the shop and strug up with the gauges as above the F# was horrendously loose and i told him what scale was it and he said a 25.5"  i was horrified and i said there was no way the scale could stand up to a string that big so he put an .80 on it, it became a little bit more playable, but after the 12 fret it still wasn't true to pitch so i told him it was out of my hands.


Because all he apparently did was put a bigger string on it and not take the time to reset the intonation on the guitar.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 19, 2011)

String gauge is another thing that people have opinions of personally i would use a 72 on the eighth string because it feels tight but still has a good amount of play to it.

@ MTech 

I know that but he really was clueless about that stuff


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## Explorer (Jan 19, 2011)

Not a problem. I'm glad you're here.

As I noted earlier in the thread, I have no problem using a .090 to get normal light-string tension for E1 on my 25.5". I used a larger string (.125"?) when I downtuned to Bb0 at that same 25.5" scale length. 

Since I normally read of people talking about strings in the low .070s when downtuning, and I know that a string of that size will never reach the kinds of tension they have on the rest of their guitar, I always figure it's a learning opportunity for those who are curious as to why so many insist it doesn't work with thinner strings. Why doesn't it? Because they've calculated the string size wrong... or, more likely, they never did any calculation at all, and have no clue that using .080 will drop that normal tension by a bit... and that .072 will probably drop it 8 pounds or more below the their target tension. That's a huge amount.

Presuming they even have a target at which they're aiming, as opposed to just taking a shot in the dark. *laugh*

Anyway, that's why I'm always curious as to what string gauge(s) they tried, and what tension they normally use. I've *never* had someone actually post a string gauge which would work out to a normal tension compared to the rest of their instrument. That's why I have come to the opinion that many of the assertions that it doesn't work are directly related to low math scores. *laugh*


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 19, 2011)

Yeah I know what you mean man i'm guessing they pretty much were taking a shot in the dark with that ESP, pretty much going off feel because on the 27" ones the 72 was just right a good tight tension with lots of playability on the ESP too much play on the string and he suggested that we put a 68 on it and i told him no way put something heavier on it so he got an 80 out but like you say it is probably a lack of qualifications in maths and they probably don't even have a target tension for the ERG's anyway seen as they pretty much have tons more six strings and their guitar tech knows nothing about 8 strings hence my sig.

EDIT: Another thing about neck scale i felt that the 30" was probably the best of all of the eights very good tension and just everything about it was perfect (probably it being a custom Ibanez) you could tune it to Eb without any problems, it was so comfortable too it had a great neck really nice and flat.


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## AeonSolus (Jan 20, 2011)

I use my Strat VII seven in Drop F with a 70 as the heavier string.

Did it sound like poop?

No

Did the Extended Range Police came to my house and chopped my fingertips off?

No

I bet half of the people that said "O 25.5 EENCH SCALE SOUNDS LIKE POOOP" heard it from this forum, I've played my JP6 in Drone G (G G C F A D) with 10 Gauges and it sounded GREAT, because 80% of the tone is in your hands and playing. You should be all hyped about ESP releasing an 8 string for less 500, because not even rondo has one for that kind of a bargainic price, but noooo because someone made the 11th commandment against 25.5" 8 strings. For those who REALLY prefer 8 strings at a higher scale, my apologies  whatever rocks your boat


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 20, 2011)

AeonSolus said:


> I use my Strat VII seven in Drop F with a 70 as the heavier string.
> 
> Did it sound like poop?
> 
> ...


 
Schecter have already released a budget 26.5" 8 string Omen 8 which in the uk is going for about £329 in dollars it is $522.657 but i have no idea what it sounds like i'm afraid but from what i've heard the stock pickups are not that good so i really wonder what this ESP will actually sound like with those passive ESP stocks.


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## leandroab (Jan 20, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> It's pretty much the only 25.5" 8-string in production right now AFAIK, leave it be.


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 20, 2011)

rythmic_pulses said:


> Yeah I know what you mean man i'm guessing they pretty much were taking a shot in the dark with that ESP, pretty much going off feel because on the 27" ones the 72 was just right a good tight tension with lots of playability. on the ESP too much play on the string and he suggested that we put a 68 on it and i told him no way put something heavier on it so he got an 80 out...



For starters, the FM-8's came with 10-56 and a 68 stock from the factory for the F#. I wound up moving up from the 68 to a 70 to tighten up the string feel and make it a little more solid feeling. I can see where/how/why some use something like an 80 or a 90 for their F#, but can you say NUT REPLACEMENT from that dook-ass string grinding the shit out of the nut??? Again, I know that everyone has thier own taste and feel for whatever gauges and tensions work best for them. But for me I have NO ISSUE what so ever using a normal gauge set, with whatever tension it's at and no issues with intonation at all. I have settled on what works, plays, feels and sounds best to me. It's a personal preference and everyone has their own.

Like I've said before in other posts about guitars, pickups, ect - "What works for some, won't work for others."



rythmic_pulses said:


> Schecter have already released a budget 26.5" 8 string Omen 8 which in the uk is going for about £329, in dollars it is $522.657 but i have no idea what it sounds like. i'm afraid but from what i've heard the stock pickups are not that good so i really wonder what this ESP will actually sound like with those passive ESP stocks.



That Schecter Omen 8 here in the States is about the same price - $330. And as far as the pickups go, that's an easy fix. Nothing a set of EMG's, Blackouts, or whatever can't fix! And same goes for the ESP too. 
I put a set of the 707TW's in my ESP SC-207 and it's one of the best guitars I've ever owned. Pickups in cheaper guitars are easy to swap and an easy mod to make it sound better than with the stock junk it comes with...

As for the comparison of the ESP vs. the Schecter, I'd go with the ESP because the ESP will most likely have a much thinner, more comfortable neck than the typical baseball bat neck on the Schecter which their notorious for...



AeonSolus said:


> I use my Strat VII seven in Drop F with a 70 as the heavier string.
> 
> Did it sound like poop?
> 
> ...



I agree with you here... Like I said I'm using a 70 for my F# and have no issues what so ever. It's all a matter of personal taste and feel. And I'd probably use the same gauges on a baritone 7 or 8 as I do my normal scale'd guitars anyway, because it feels and plays right to me without feeling like the strings are too loose or too tight. Am I against baritones, no. Would I own one, yes, if I found one that appeals to me in all the right ways - just like any other guitar and guitar player would do.


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## Explorer (Jan 20, 2011)

Kamikaze7 said:


> I can see where/how/why some use something like an 80 or a 90 for their F#, but can you say NUT REPLACEMENT from that dook-ass string grinding the shit out of the nut???



I don't understand the comment. 

I normally have string tensions similar to a normal light-gauge electric set on my electrics. I haven't had to replace the nut due to string grinding on any of them.

How high a tension are you using that you're "grinding the shit out of the nut?" I'd suggest, if you fear this to be a problem, using a string in line with the tensions you already use.

And, if you already have the problem, then you might want to pull back on those tensions. 

----

Is this just hyperbole? I don't get it. It sounds like completely unfounded speculation, but if your string tensions are "grinding the shit out of the nut," you're doing it wrong.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 20, 2011)

@Kamikaze7

I totally understand where you are coming from i tried an SC207 a couple of times and it was really comfortable but dont get me wrong it was not a small neck at all which IMHO adds to the magic of it, i like a large neck on a seven string basically ever since i bought my omen 7, but not going off topic i guess the SC208 it will sound better than the schecter just because ESP know what they are doing production wise and not having them built in that Cor-Tech factory in Korea.


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## AeonSolus (Jan 21, 2011)

Got a new rant starting point, why doesn't anyone bash the bands that play bellow Drop A on 6 strings? I mean, it's the same 25.5 inch scale! but if it had 2 more strings it would be wrong??


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## Deadnightshade (Jan 21, 2011)

Someday,somewhere,i'll make a 28" guitar,post a clip,and then modify its scale to 25.5" and post another clip,and science will prevail.


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## Explorer (Jan 21, 2011)

AeonSolus said:


> Got a new rant starting point, why doesn't anyone bash the bands that play bellow Drop A on 6 strings? I mean, it's the same 25.5 inch scale! but if it had 2 more strings it would be wrong??



That's interesting. 

Since I don't follow many current bands, and I don't retune instruments just to be able to play someone else's compositions, I wasn't aware of this phenomenon. It's a funny idea that there would be successful bands which violate what is an untested truism for a lot of people.

Let's take a look...

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/115075-ss-org-tunings-thread.html

Well, it looks promising, but I don't know what instruments these bands were playing while using these tunings, and I don't really have enough interest in them to do a lot of research on it. 

Still, it would be funny to start a topic here with, "Hello, anonymous internet friends! Post why these bands fail using drop tunings at 25.5!" *laugh*


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## MetalBuddah (Jan 21, 2011)

Only concern about this guitar is the pickups...If they are anything like the stock sc207 pickups, then it isnt worth it. Those pups are quite awful


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 21, 2011)

AeonSolus said:


> Got a new rant starting point, why doesn't anyone bash the bands that play bellow Drop A on 6 strings? I mean, it's the same 25.5 inch scale! but if it had 2 more strings it would be wrong??


 
The only one i can think of is SikTh, i dont like them personally, there's being different with timings like Meshuggah but SikTh just take it too far IMO and why would you want to tune a six to G# you'd have to put ropes on the fret board and trust me i tried it with my six and it was floppy as hell thanks to an unstable floyd, i dont see what i ever saw in floyds.


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## Shinto (Jan 21, 2011)

Guys, we should be coming after The ACACIA STRAIN since they tune lower than Drop A on 6-strings! Behead them fockers for such heresy!


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 21, 2011)

MetalBuddah said:


> Only concern about this guitar is the pickups...If they are anything like the stock sc207 pickups, then it isnt worth it. Those pups are quite awful



Again, you wouldn't spend a few hundred extra for a set of pickups you can put in yourself and get a better tone instantly?!?!?!?  That's the first place I start with a cheaper guitar, and it changes my whole outlook on the guitar.



Explorer said:


> I don't understand the comment.
> 
> I normally have string tensions similar to a normal light-gauge electric set on my electrics. I haven't had to replace the nut due to string grinding on any of them.
> 
> ...



I'm not referring to the string's tension grinding out the nut... I'm referring to changing strings and letting the string ride in the slot of the nut as it's wound on the tuner. And I know a LOT of people tend to do this when they change strings - hence, the wound strings grinding out the nut. This isn't nessacerily an issue if your higher-end guitar has a bone or graphite nut, but if your playing a cheaper one, it's using those cheap plastic nuts which grind out after a while of changing strings and letting the string ride in the nut as it's wound and tuned.

I'm not going by the math of tension, I go by how it feels by my fingers when I play it. As long as the strings don't seem to have any flop or feel too stiff that it's hard to bend them, then it's good to me. And since I've got the issue happening on 3 out of 5 on my guitars, my solution is a nut replacement with the GraphTech nut. I use the saddles on my guitars, and am glad to use the nuts since I have to replace them after many great years of trusty, reliable djent.


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## AeonSolus (Jan 21, 2011)

The Acacia Strain in drop G#, Mortician in Standard G, and Burzum Standard F on 6 strings and 25.5! They shall burn in HELL!!!!...Cept Varg Vikernes would be happy to do so http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varg_Vikernes


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 22, 2011)

All schecters even the low end ones feature graphtech nuts which is a bonus all guitars should be given graphtech's just so they last longer


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 22, 2011)

I couldn't agree more with you on this...


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## SkullCrusher (Jan 22, 2011)

If I were to have an 8 made, it would have a 25.5. But this a bottom of the run model so i bet its not that good.


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## Kamikaze7 (Jan 22, 2011)

SkullCrusher said:


> If I were to have an 8 made, it would have a 25.5. But this a bottom of the run model so i bet its not that good.



Dude, I got rid of a Ibanez Universe because I thought and solidly believe that my LTD M107 Kamikaze 4 is and has been the best guitar I've ever owned. I also have 2 other M107's that are just as awesome, an SC-207 that has the 707TW EMG's and a special wiring job and my FM-408. And for the $400 I paid for the SC-207 BRAND NEW, special order from Guitar Center, it too has become one of the best guitars I've ever owned...

If your considering one, just swap out the pickups and you'd be golden. I would also say and honestly believe that it'll play better than the Schecter Omen 8, hands down. Sometimes the cheapest, bottom of the barrel guitars wind up being some of the best ones after you do a little bit of work to them.


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## MTech (Jan 22, 2011)

AeonSolus said:


> The Acacia Strain in drop G#, Mortician in Standard G, and Burzum Standard F on 6 strings and 25.5! They shall burn in HELL!!!!...Cept Varg Vikernes would be happy to do so



Acacia Strain use ESP Eclipse which are 24 3/4 scale.


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## rythmic_pulses (Jan 23, 2011)

24 2/4 scale  jesus christ what strings do they put on it, fucking .125s or something  (joke)


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## MTech (Jan 23, 2011)

Actually pretty much every band I see tuning that low just use the Zakk sets.. Mainly because almost every company is made by machine and doesn't bother making the larger strings and even the ones that do seem to have hard times meeting demand in a timely order because it's all machine made in batches.


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## bostjan (Jan 23, 2011)

If a low F# didn't float my boat (and it never has at 25.5", and yes, I have tried it and thought that the strings either sounded like mush for being to loose or like a malimba for being too thick) then I would just tune it ADGCFADG.

But then again, I don't personally like tunings that low shorter than 28". Your mileage may vary.

There are a lot of people out there (myself included) who would love a 25.5" eight. Not like there isn't a similar model in 27".


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## ixlramp (Feb 1, 2011)

Okay I've just seen the SC 208 available in the UK for £499 including our new tax rate of 20%. Not cheap.


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## Shannon (Mar 25, 2011)

Personally, I've never had a problem with 25.5" 8-string. My 1st custom 8 was 25.5" circa 2004. And one of the dudes above brought up a very interesting point about 6-stringers who tune uber low in standard scale. Hell, even the 2 Les Paul 7s I had played great @ 24.75". 

I'm a FIRM believer that there are many factors in acheiving good tones with low-tuned standard scale instruments. A lot of it is your playing style alone. Secondly, cater the string tension & gauges to YOUR playing style. If you're a basher, you'll need larger strings or you'll flub out. If you have a bit of finesse, you can used fairly standard gauges & be totally fine. And of course, setting up the guitar to be maxmized for YOUR playing style goes a loooong way. So maybe it's not the guitar, maybe it's your playing style & general lack of knowledge.

And lastly, this debate on 7+ string axes needing baritone scale lengths is BEYOND tired. I don't think I'm alone here when I say a good percentage of those who post about "the absolute need for baritone ranges" probably are repeating what they've HEARD rather than from any practical experience. I say "Quit being a sheep! Feel free to offer advice on a guitar you've actually had your hands on & don't offer advice based on assumptions. And then, understand that not everyone may play like you, so others' experiences may vary & it's inconsiderate to talk someone out of a guitar just because it didn't work for you."

I enjoy standard scale lengths, so yes, I'm looking forward to the SC208.


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## LamaSabachthani (Mar 25, 2011)

Van Heezey said:


> SC-208 Stephen Carpenter Signature 8-String 2011 Electric Guitar - Black
> 
> 
> Is this something new? Or am I being really dumb right now? Haven't seen anything on the website yet about this.



Isn't that the 25.5 that has received wide criticism for what is perceived to be its absurd scale length?

Edit: sorry, several of the previous posts have covered this.


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## Waelstrum (Mar 25, 2011)

So close! If the middle pickup was at the neck, and the headstock was such that the highest string's tuner was closer to the nut, this would be ultimate. Short scale and super cheap. It's just that it's not particularly high A friendly, and the high A would be shriller than necessary without a neck pickup.


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## Shannon (Mar 25, 2011)

Buy it & add a pickup.


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## MTech (Mar 25, 2011)

Shannon said:


> So maybe it's not the guitar, maybe it's your playing style & general lack of knowledge.
> 
> And lastly, this debate on 7+ string axes needing baritone scale lengths is BEYOND tired. I don't think I'm alone here when I say a good percentage of those who post about "the absolute need for baritone ranges" probably are repeating what they've HEARD rather than from any practical experience. I say "Quit being a sheep! Feel free to offer advice on a guitar you've actually had your hands on & don't offer advice based on assumptions. And then, understand that not everyone may play like you, so others' experiences may vary & it's inconsiderate to talk someone out of a guitar just because it didn't work for you."


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## Waelstrum (Mar 25, 2011)

Shannon said:


> Buy it & add a pickup.



Agile is cheaper. The main thing about this was the price, as I have limited funds.


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## avenger (Mar 28, 2011)

I like the idea of tuning the middle 6 strings to D standard and then adding the low A and high G. 

The pickup location always makes me wonder though.


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## okarma (Mar 30, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> ugh! worthless posts showing up as new causing me to waste time and brain power reading them.
> 
> Your ignorance is the only thing that's fucking disgusting here.



chill dude.


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## okarma (Mar 30, 2011)

I have the sc-207. put in an EVOII bridge pickup. now it sounds 10x better. it sounds amazing actually.


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