# Help me decide, Axe Fx or Kemper?



## Sussman (Feb 16, 2015)

So basically I'm in the market for an amp modeler. And I'd like to know which of these two is the best and why. I'm sure there's already dozens of threads about this, but to be honest I'm too lazy to search them up. Thanks in advance for any input guys!


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## crg123 (Feb 16, 2015)

Well the Axe Fx just got the beta update for its G3 (Generation 3 modeling engine) and will eventually have all the amps remodeled soon. All the reverb and other fx have also been updated in the last few months.

The way to decide for yourself is really how much you like tweakability. The Kemper is more of a snap shot of the amp its modeling where as the axe fx is digital built from the ground up up to sound like the amp even as you tweak it.

Both are great and you won't regret either. I decided between the two, so I just figured I'd share my experience.


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## jerm (Feb 16, 2015)

I went with the Kemper and do not regret it at all. The tones are insane. and it's a little cheaper

While the FX II may have more effects, what more do you need than delay, reverb, flanger, chorus, tremolo?


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## SSK0909 (Feb 17, 2015)

The Kemper is a really great unit with lots of bang for the buck. In no way would i consider it a bad purchase 

That said, I feel that the Axe-Fx 2 has surpassed it in tone and feel thanks to the nearly fanatic attitude of Fractal owner Cliff chase. That guy is constantly working on improvements to his product and releasing free firmware updates. Like the poster above me said, were about to get a new firmware that updates all amps to the new 3G modeling, and the sound clips i've heard sound really astounding.
The axe-fx is also superior when it comes to routing/connection options and the ammount of amps and fx.

But if you don't need all of that the Kemper is, as i mentioned, a great unit for the price


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## gogolXmogol (Feb 17, 2015)

I would suggest Kemper, much more versatile and great sounding unit imo. I do not like Ax fx, for me it's just an improved line6 tone, which is a "plastic" sterile tone.


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## noise in my mind (Feb 17, 2015)

gogolXmogol said:


> I would suggest Kemper, much more versatile and great sounding unit imo. I do not like Ax fx, for me it's just an improved line6 tone, which is a "plastic" sterile tone.



really? I guess to each their own.

To the OP, both are great units. The general consensus is axe fx for the tweakers, and the kemper for the for the plug and play guys.


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## davemuselman (Feb 17, 2015)

The big difference is the innovation in the impulse responses. You can flash your studio rig and save it in your kemper. I see both units on the desks of the best producers so you really cant go wrong. Just dont get an 11r...

Axe Fx has a lot more FX, however with kemper you can make fx with the standard fx they have on board, if that makes sense? With Axe, its much easier to just plug in and sound like all the bands that have the Axe Fx, ya dig?


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## davemuselman (Feb 17, 2015)

gogolXmogol said:


> I would suggest Kemper, much more versatile and great sounding unit imo. I do not like Ax fx, for me it's just an improved line6 tone, which is a "plastic" sterile tone.



The new Axe is so so much better than the old ones imho, but i hear ya


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## crg123 (Feb 17, 2015)

gogolXmogol said:


> I would suggest Kemper, much more *versatile* and great sounding unit imo. I do not like Ax fx, for me it's just an improved line6 tone, which is a *"plastic" sterile tone.*



Lol wat. You know that people do more than djent with these things right? Unless your talking about the Axe Standard/ Ultra which never really did anything for me, in which case I get that comment. If you're talking about the II/XL though:

Blues
http://tylergrund.com/mp3/deluxe_tele_fw18_2.6.15.mp3
http://tylergrund.com/mp3/bassman_tele_fw18_2.6.15.mp3
https://soundcloud.com/patzag/axe-fx-fw18-demo-hrm-clean-with-zen

Hard Rock/Heavy Metal

 (with a tele so obviously its not going to be perfect)

Modern Metal

https://soundcloud.com/clark-kent-job/fw18-recto2-red-mdrn-g3-vs-mesa-roadster-clip-2
Mesa Roadster versus the Meso Recto2 modern Red model. It's not even suppose to sound like a roadster, but you can easily tweak it as such.

Of Course we all know it can do this well:
https://soundcloud.com/harshadasari/periphery-the-bad-thing-3

Sorry I just had to rebuttal that, it was just kind of ridiculous to compare it to line 6. I use to actually own a POD and a GT-10 so I can tell you thats absurd.


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## gogolXmogol (Feb 17, 2015)

crg123 said:


> Lol wat. You know that people do more than djent with these things right? Unless your talking about the Axe Standard/ Ultra which never really did anything for me, in which case I get that comment. If you're talking about the II/XL though


I understand why people love it though  the clips you provided did not amazed me, they sound good I would not argue about that. I guess it's just my personal preference, I do not like emulated guitar sound. I think for 2k one can get a really good high-gain amd and a decent amp for a clean sound (5150 and a fender used amds for example). But obviously it is a fantastic piece of touring rig and live sound that can "do it all" which made is so popular among many bands and artists.


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## crg123 (Feb 17, 2015)

Shrug* Personal opinions I can get behind . I use to be an all tube amp guy with a 15 piece pedal board (it sucked to move around). Like I said I tried the GT-10 and Pod along the way and always thought they were super lackluster. I borrowed my friend Axe II for a few months and sold all my gear I was so impressed.

It was between the Axe XL, a Kemper and a Mark V. I went this route, don't regret it and never will. Worse comes to worst I end up buying a tube power amp and a cab then I have a kickass and versatile preamp/ rackmount fx unit. 

Just wanted to provide some clips for the O.P. so he could make his own decisions like we have.


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## gogolXmogol (Feb 17, 2015)

I had line 6 as well, tried all kind of software emus like guitar rig, just doesn't feel right for me. Are you getting more warm tones with the tube poweramp and axe? On the Decapitated show back in the day I really liked the guitar sound, when I found out that it was a line 6 head I was impressed! Wat? 20 mins is plenty of time


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## PlumbTheDerps (Feb 17, 2015)

If you're using it live, I think the Axe is more versatile and slightly better for that kind of thing. If you're using it in a studio, I prefer the Kemper. Generally speaking, the sounds you get out of the Kemper are slightly closer to the real thing than what I've heard from the Axe FX. I've actually played Axe FX model profiles on my Kemper and compared them, and there's something in the dynamics that the Kemper is better able to capture. But the difference is so miniscule in a final mix that I think you're better off making your decision based on the practical studio v. live concerns.


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## gogolXmogol (Feb 17, 2015)

PlumbTheDerps said:


> If you're using it live, I think the Axe is more versatile and slightly better for that kind of thing. If you're using it in a studio, I prefer the Kemper. Generally speaking, the sounds you get out of the Kemper are slightly closer to the real thing than what I've heard from the Axe FX. I've actually played Axe FX model profiles on my Kemper and compared them, and there's something in the dynamics that the Kemper is better able to capture. But the difference is so miniscule in a final mix that I think you're better off making your decision based on the practical studio v. live concerns.


Totally agree! As for me, Kemper is more lively sounding and has richer dynamics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7GexV_TF0


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## gogolXmogol (Feb 17, 2015)

I trust this dude a lot


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## jerm (Feb 17, 2015)

What are the effects that the Axe FX II has over the Kemper?


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## haieb (Feb 17, 2015)

I am an owner of an axe fx II for about 8 months now and damn I love this thing. I sold my mark V and don't regret it at all. To the guy saying the kemper is more versatile . Sorry, I don't want to be rude but I had to lough a bit about it, cause in my eyes it is the most versatile unit you can get on the market right now and far more capable of doing different things than any other unit. 

I never played a kemper myself but I heard a lot of samples, also heard it live and I almost did buy it before I got my axe. It is a really great unit in my eyes and you can't go wrong with it.
All in all imo both units are not the same and do things quite different. You shouldn't ask yourself which unit is the best, but what unit fits you the most.
If you are someone that sticks with "one" sound and is not into having an impressive amount of possibilities/tweakability and likes things easy -> then go with the Kemper.
Not saying that the axe is a complex system and hard to master, but it can be if you are into going deeper and change some advanced parameters and doing some complex routing. But if you already have a good knowledge about amps and effects and what they do, it is really easy to get it.

My experiences with the axe is:
-A really awesome community, that is always there to help you.
-An awesome Fractal team that is working hard on perfecting their product.
-A unit where I can do basic awesome sounds in like 2-3 minutes cause the amps are built in and no capture is needed. The amps should act like in the real world.
-A really versatile and flexible unit.
-I can do stuff that are not possible in the real world, when changing some advanced parameters -> This inspires me and give me a lot of freedom with my creativity.

If you want better answers, you need to to tell more about your preferences and what things you want to achieve with the unit.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Feb 17, 2015)

haieb said:


> If you are someone that sticks with "one" sound and is not into having an impressive amount of possibilities/tweakability and likes things easy -> then go with the Kemper.



Do bear in mind that the new Kemper firmware allows you to independently profile amps and cabs and it has a bunch of pre-loaded pedals, so this is changing pretty quickly. Plus each amp has built-in controls for tube bias, "cleanness," depth, pick attack, compression, cab "character," tone stack, etc.- within each model, it's highly tweakable. But you are correct that there are some things the Kemper can't do, like picking and choosing mics and cabs to fit a particular tone. You are "stuck" with other folks' mic positions for the time being, though you can switch them from profile to profile.


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## pylyo (Feb 17, 2015)

Kemper sounds and especially feels so much more like a real amp, that it is not even fun.
I had all the units, mate still ownes updated axefx2 and comparing it with Kemper 1:1 it sounds thin and digital - no matter what you do and what power amp used.
Of course, with tons of proccesing and mixing you can make anything sound great but straight on, Kemper wins easily imo.
It is not like a line6 though haha...

But fx are on another lvl with fractal.


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## pylyo (Feb 17, 2015)

One more thing, fractal "amps" do not sound that much like the real amps they were made after.

For example HBE is nothing like the real deal - the HBE mode on my Friedman BE100. No matter what you do. I even used the power amp of my BE and paired it with the fractal HBE, not even close to a real deal. And it sounds like it's in a box. 

Tried that with several amps and the results are pretty much the same as above, although you can come close on cleans. 
I'm not saying they are bad or anything, its just that they are not like the amps they are after. Which means you can have a really unique sounds.

Even with the Kemper, there are still missing frequencies, you can hear it right away when you have the amp beside Kemper but it is very close and what's most important, the good profiles have the character and the right feel of the amp it was profiled, well lets say 90% of it... 

That's my exp with these units and that's why I always have a real amp around.


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## Der JD (Feb 17, 2015)

I've owned both. My thoughts below- strictly just my opinions. 

The Axe wins for effects and routing. If you need tons of high quality effects with practically endless parameters for tweaking I'd recommend the Axe. Same goes for routing options. The Kemper's effects are good, but not as good. Also, not as many effects and not as many parameters. Personally, I use very few effects so it was a non-issue for me. 

Kemper wins for raw amp/cab tone and feel. IMO, it's simply impossible for the Axe to be better than the Kemper in this department. The only thing that beats the Kemper here is the real tube amp. 

With the Kemper, it's all about the profile. Finding the right profile is THE key to happiness with the Kemper. A good profile sounds and feels 95-99% like the original configuration. By "configuration" I mean the entire chain from which it was profiled- amp, cab, mic, mic placement, mic preamp, etc. That's something that is of extreme importance- the Kemper and the Axe mimic a recorded amp- the cab, mic, and mic placement are all highly influential. This sounds greatly different from what your ears hear when playing an amp in the room. 

Kemper wins for user-friendliness. With the Axe, I spent all my time tweaking. I could come up with good tones with little effort but I always felt they could be better. Months of tweaking and IR hunting followed. This isn't true for everyone. Some find tones they're completely satisfied with very quickly. If you love to tweak and/or create tones that don't even exist with real amps/do crazy virtual mods to amps the Axe might be more up your alley. 

With the Kemper, I was very satisfied within hours of plugging it in. However, I did my homework beforehand. I had read the manual a couple of times. I had researched profiles and had even purchased some commercial profiles that I thought would work for me. It was simply a matter of loading them up. I spent way more time playing and recording with the Kemper vs. the Axe. 

They're both great modeling units (though I feel what the Kemper does is far greater than modeling. The term "modeling" is a bit of a punch in the face for the Kemper). However, I've gone back to real amps for several reasons. 

For me, nothing beats a real tube amp. The Kemper came close. I bought a Torpedo Reload (attenuator, reamp box, loadbox) for use with my real amps and compared recordings between the Kemper and my real amps/Reload. The Kemper lost, but just slightly. Can't really explain my preference in words. There's just something about a real tube amp. 

Also, I came to realize how, for just regular practice/jamming/solo playing, I prefer playing through a real guitar cab vs. studio monitors/headphones/PA speakers. Sure, you can run a Kemper or Axe through a real cab but IMO that's when you really start to realize the digital shortcomings. There's just something missing. You know it when you start playing. Call it lack of "three-dimensionality" or not being "organic" or whatever current buzzword you choose but you get my meaning. Some people choose and are happy with playing through monitors or headphones. Sometimes that's an appropriate option. Not my preference, though, for most situations.


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## col (Feb 17, 2015)

Der JD said:


> I had researched profiles and had even purchased some commercial profiles that I thought would work for me. It was simply a matter of loading them up. I spent way more time playing and recording with the Kemper vs. the Axe.



I think it needs to be mentioned that you can preview profiles from the rig-exchange now without saving them on the Kemper. Just open the software and click through everything. Makes looking for and comparing profiles so much faster.

Let's say I want to find a good JCM800 profile. Input JCM800 on the search bar and start A/B'ing the profiles.


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## Sussman (Feb 17, 2015)

OP here. First off I ....ing love you guys. So many awesome and informed opinions! Thank you! 
I'm still not decided 100% on either side. But this is helping a butt load!


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## mnemonic (Feb 17, 2015)

haieb said:


> If you are someone that sticks with "one" sound and is not into having an impressive amount of possibilities/tweakability and likes things easy -> then go with the Kemper.
> Not saying that the axe is a complex system and hard to master, but it can be if you are into going deeper and change some advanced parameters and doing some complex routing. But if you already have a good knowledge about amps and effects and what they do, it is really easy to get it.



I'm a one-tone kind of guy, I have a few patches, none of which use any complicated routing or effects, and I went with the Axe FX II. Especially now, it certainly doesn't need to be a tweaker's amp if you don't want to tweak. I hear this was the case back with the older versions (standard and ultra) and some of the early firmwares for the II, but these days you can stick to the basic EQ and get great tones, which is what I do. 

If I ran a studio, or if I had a ton of amps I wanted to mic up and capture, I probably would have went with the Kemper, but I don't own any real amps anymore. I personally didn't like the idea of being stuck using other people's mic positions, EQ settings, etc (I know you still have a lot of tweaking options though). 

Plus I haven't been as impressed by Kemper recordings as I have been by Axe FX II recordings.


edit- also bare in mind that the Axe FX II is going through a major overhaul with the Firmware 18 update that will be coming out soon; new modeling methods are being used, about half the amps are converted so far and you can test the beta firmware if you want (if you have an axe fx II). The general consensus is that everything is a lot closer to the real deal, much better dynamics, etc etc, read the fractal forum if you want more info. Comparisons of older Axe FX firmwares is getting increasingly irrelevant.


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## noise in my mind (Feb 17, 2015)

Don't forget, with a really well made impulse cab, most modelers/software (pod's axe fx ect) come to life. I was amazed at how good my brothers pod xt sounded when I routed it through the free ownhammer bogner beta. You may be happy too with just the original axe fx. It's a great unit, and like I said before with a good IR cab you can really go far. Just my two cents.


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## aprilia4life (Feb 17, 2015)

This thread reeks of the great and never-to-be-resolved 5150 debate: "the 5153 sounds shit, the 5150 is better" vs. "the 5150 sounds shit, the 5153 is better" etc.

OP: You will get half of the responses swearing the Axe sounds better, and the other half swearing the Kemper sounds better. The only major difference will be how much you can tweak them both and their features, plus availability of the unit.

Don't get me wrong, it's frustrating as hell that no one is able to undeniably claim one is better than the other (it's a lot of money to spend on gear), but unfortunately that's not going to happen.

/thread


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## edsped (Feb 17, 2015)

Also be prepared to retweak all your patches after every major firmware update if you get an Axe FX. This is not to be underestimated.


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## fantasyl (Feb 17, 2015)

Listen to Haieb:



> You shouldn't ask yourself which unit is the best, but what unit fits you the most.



Both will give you great sounds, but the way you will get to your sound will be much different! 
If you love spending time tweaking your sound and especially love FX section and tweaking FX until the last parameter go with the Axe, if you are a tube amp guy that wants a simpler approach to reach killer sound just turning few knobs...the Kemper is the way to go.

I tried the Axe FX II and wasn't impressed. It's an awesome unit, but you have to spend an insane amount of time tweaking, while IMHO the Kemper just sounds better, as a real tube amp do.

I was a tube guy for 20+ years and never liked digital until the kemper.

Tried profiling preamp sections of few heads and connected Kemper to the power amp of the same setup (power amp of the heads + cab) after profiling: couldn't spot a difference and some guys preferred the profiled sounds to the originals, some other guys preferred the originals (3 vs 2), but we all agreed the difference was so tiny it was barely noticeable....


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## Shask (Feb 17, 2015)

mnemonic said:


> I'm a one-tone kind of guy, I have a few patches, none of which use any complicated routing or effects, and I went with the Axe FX II. Especially now, it certainly doesn't need to be a tweaker's amp if you don't want to tweak. I hear this was the case back with the older versions (standard and ultra) and some of the early firmwares for the II, but these days you can stick to the basic EQ and get great tones, which is what I do.
> 
> If I ran a studio, or if I had a ton of amps I wanted to mic up and capture, I probably would have went with the Kemper, but I don't own any real amps anymore. I personally didn't like the idea of being stuck using other people's mic positions, EQ settings, etc (I know you still have a lot of tweaking options though).



That is how I am also. I only use a few presets and hardly any effects, but I still like the Axe. 

I felt like it was more about workflow. Do you want to build your rig, or just keep downloading samples until you find one you like? I personally prefer to sculpt what I want instead of sampling and sorting.

I also agree with the studio comment. It seems like people who are happiest with the Kemper have an amp/studio tone they love and just want a convenient way to take it with them.

I am sure both sound great though. I feel like it is more about which workflow you click with.


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## bloc (Feb 18, 2015)

I have an Axe 2 and it kills. It's my understanding that it has way more features/amps/effects/etc than the Kemper but I am not 100% sure about this.

With that said, I am still very curious to play through a Kemper


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## Der JD (Feb 19, 2015)

bloc said:


> I have an Axe 2 and it kills. It's my understanding that it has way more features/amps/effects/etc than the Kemper but I am not 100% sure about this.
> 
> With that said, I am still very curious to play through a Kemper


 
Feature and effects...yes, the Axe has more. Not even close for amps. What's the amp count in the Axe now? Guessing 150- 200. With the Kemper you have access to practically every amp ever made. You just have to find the profiles or profile the amp yourself. Difficult to come up with much of a list of amps that haven't been profiled at this point. There are literally thousands of profiles out there covering hundreds of different amps. 

Furthermore, a lot of the Axe "amps" are just different modes/channels of one amp. Look at all the Recto models- Orange Modern, Orange Vintage, Red Modern, Red Vintage, etc. There are a lot of amps in the Axe that have different modes/channels in real life but have not been modeled in the Axe. The Engl Powerball is a good example. Only 1 channel modeled in the Axe. With the Kemper, you can find profiles of the Powerball in all the different channels. 

Another cool thing about the Kemper is you can find profiles of amps with popular mods. Want a Fortin modded Marshall? No problem.


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## pylyo (Feb 19, 2015)

^^ true there's hundreds of free profiles...
But most of them are of a low quality, although they are getting better with time.

That being said, there are tons of superb ones, although most of them you'll have to buy.

I have settled on Mike Britt profiles, which honestly cover a complete territory from all kind of cleans (vintage, modern), to higain and everything in between.
They are not expensive and sound superb, open and balanced, really must have imo if you have a Kemper. 
Furthermore, they sound superb with power amp + box, as well as through powered monitors, properly responsive to the volume knob and EQ knobs in general, something that is not common in many cases with other profiles I tried.


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## hikizume976 (Feb 19, 2015)

Other people's perceptions will not get you where you want to go. A lot of people are getting great results with both. A lot of people love the axe, a lot of people love the kemper. How far will that get you?

Try thinking in terms of what's important to you in terms of price, features, etc, and go from there.


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## crg123 (Feb 19, 2015)

aprilia4life said:


> This thread reeks of the great and never-to-be-resolved 5150 debate: "the 5153 sounds shit, the 5150 is better" vs. "the 5150 sounds shit, the 5153 is better" etc.
> 
> OP: You will get half of the responses swearing the Axe sounds better, and the other half swearing the Kemper sounds better. The only major difference will be how much you can tweak them both and their features, plus availability of the unit.
> 
> ...



Pretty much this. Find both devices if possible and make a decision, or take a shot in the dark and you'll most likely be happy either way. I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to demo both and chose the Axe because:

1. I prefered its ability to tweak on the fly, create new sounds that may not be even possible with a normal amp using the advanced parameters
2. Load IRs so that the cab, amps, and mic preamps profiles are separate to really (again on the fly) shift your sound.
3. Tone matching on top of a preset that is close to the sound you want to get album tones from stems or recordings (not to the level of the kemper but it really gets you there). Plus if you on the amp you can do a live tone match a lot more similar to kempers method.
4. Tons of high quality fx and tone shaping abilities. Despite what some say who possibly were just using earlier versions, a simple amp>cab layout sounds fantastic. Especially since V17 and now even more so in v18.
5. The constant updating and efforts Cliff puts into the device was something I could really support and fall behind. 

The reason I almost got the kemper was if it was loaded with the right profiles (this one was at the Axe Palace so you can only imagine the sounds that came out of that thing) it was a beast and a half loaded with every amp they own. The presets that you download really sounded great on their own without having to really delve deep into it.

All in all I just felt that the Axe was more versatile and better for on the fly adjustments, but thats really a matter of open I know Nick at the Axe Palace totally disagrees with me on this, but its just the conclusion I came to for my self. I'm a tweaker who's always pushing my sound in one direction or the other, some people just want to download presets and just plug-in and play. People telling you either way really won't help because its going to be like the guy I quote above said. Shrug*


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## shred-o-holic (Feb 19, 2015)

I've spent a few days with the new firmware 18 G3 modeling beta with my Axe 2. It does sound a tad better. Just tweaked a cool Freidman HBE patch. But the Kemper still is my main rig. The feel I think still wins out for me by quite a bit. I like the Axe as a plan B for home but the Kemper just has this pleasing factor to play that I haven't gotten with the Axe FX 2 yet. People are going nuts about FW 18 and so far I don't see the big difference. I will tweak on tho


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## crg123 (Feb 19, 2015)

^ thats because people love to hype the hell out of things. I'd just start the patches from scratch to give a good point of reference. I noticed most of my patches are all over the place now because all the amps (well the ones he's G3'd so far) are all redone in a new method and some of the advanced controls are taken away since they're not necessary any more. Also right now this is still Beta so things can improve further for the final release of V18

The difference is in the top end (sizzle instead of fizz) and low in clarity (thump instead of flub), much much better picking dynamics, and a better feel if that makes sense. Cliff also improved the code so everything runs smoother. We're not reinventing the wheel here haha but the improvements are very welcome for me.


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## mnemonic (Feb 19, 2015)

The fractal forum can get pretty fanatic about things sometimes, basically divide the hype by 4, and thats how good a firmware upgrade actually is. 

Personally I really like FW18 because of what its done to the Rectos, they are pretty easy to get a killer sound out of now. It wasn't as easy before, the high and low end used to take some taming. Other amps didn't change as much.


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## crg123 (Feb 19, 2015)

^ I agree the Rectos are the stars of this update. I never really cared for them before the update now they're amazing. They sound just like my friends dual rec now.


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