# Black metal bass playing? (I know, I know, it's an oxymoron...:)



## KailM (Jun 3, 2015)

Hey guys,

I'll start this off by saying I'm not really a bass player. I have a bass, and have played bass on and off over the years. I can get the job done. I've been playing guitar for 18 or so years though.

Anyway, I've been recording for a solo black metal album, and my first song is nearly completed -- I just need to revamp/finish my bass track. I know bass guitar isn't a prevalent sound in black metal, but I want the mix to sound halfway decent at least. 

My question is this -- Say I'm playing a furious set of 16th note tremelo riffs on guitar. On the bass, do I need to match the 16th notes? Or should I just play 8th notes or even quarter notes? I just can't really hear what the bass players are actually doing on all the black metal songs I've studied, and without a deep knowledge base regarding the bass's role in songwriting, I'm not exactly sure how to incorporate it into my songwriting.

At least on this particular song, my bass line so far matches the 16th notes of my guitar parts -- but in other words, I'm asking if this is the most intelligent use of the bass? Or might it sound better to play 8th or quarter notes and let them ring out longer? This song in particular is a marathon to play...


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## vansinn (Jun 3, 2015)

Can't directly help you, but would suggest looking up videos of bands that allows you to see how the bass player actually does what, relative to the audio [that you have problems analyzing].

It appears to me that sometimes the bass may actually be playing fast, while more than often I find the bass being masked by bass-drums and/or the larger deeper toms, making it more difficult to depict what's actually going on down there.

Watching videos often reveals [to me] that the actual [lower-most] bass I hear/perceive, is a hybrid of bass guitar and drums. while at the same time, the player hands out quite a lot of higher register contents; i.e. is actually playing additional rhythm patterns 'up there'.
At least in the often somewhat proggy/fusion-oriented black stuff I tend to listen to


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## vilk (Jun 3, 2015)

I know that for many black metal bands, during tremolo picking sections they have the bass line up with the blast beats on the drums.

Though, I know that when Dimmu Borgir had Vortex on bass he was always doing that finger-tremolo bass thing where you gallop all four fingers but time it up so it's smooth. I can't do it.


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## Mwoit (Jun 3, 2015)

I tend to play 8th notes during 16th note tremelo riffs. It really depends on the drums that sit behind the riff and also the tone of your bass guitar. If you have a really smooth bass tone, it's worth playing slower and along with the kick drum to emphasise the hits. If you have a really grindy dirt tone, you can get away with playing faster but you might end up getting washed up with the guitar and drums. What sort of sound are you going for?


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## Sumsar (Jun 3, 2015)

Depends a lot on the tempo of the song. 16th notes are not necessarily fast but can be. I will say play the same as the as the guitar but with the rythm of the kick drum. This does not always work well, but it is a good place to start. In parts where the kick is lightning fast then play the same but in half time - so if kick is 32th play 16th notes etc. Even if you can play lightning fast on bass, chances are it will sound like a muddy mess, therefore letting notes ring a bit more helps filling out the bottom end of the mix better.

For the notes you play / choose:
Black metal is usually a lot of chords, and since you are a guitar played it should not be the hardest thing to have the bass walking abit around in the chord notes instead of just playing root notes - this can really help to take a track or part to a higher level.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jun 3, 2015)

Try fast and try slow, see what sounds nicer to you. A lot of subtleties in bass playing go unheard so playing a slower division might not really sound any different. It'd actually be ideal to play a bit slower if it sounds good. Less playing means less going on. Less going on makes a clearer mix. (Though this is black metal were talking about so maybe clear is an undesired effect.)


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## coffeeflush (Jun 3, 2015)

Bands like krallice play 4ths while guitar plays 16's

Depends on what bass tone you have
If you have lot of treble on your bass, then you can pull off with matching 16ths


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## leftyguitarjoe (Jun 3, 2015)

Black metal has bass?


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## FretSpider (Jun 3, 2015)

It really depends on a lot of variables. 

Honestly, I'd try them all out to see how well it sits. Every song is different and will have different sonic requirements. You wouldn't even necessarily have to record them all...just figure it out as you're playing. You'll know which is right for the song.


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## Sumsar (Jun 3, 2015)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> Black metal has bass?



Original joke of the year award right there!


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## TedEH (Jun 3, 2015)

FretSpider said:


> try them all



/thread. It's your music, experiment then do whatever sounds best to you.


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## KailM (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for all the input guys -- it's all been helpful. I guess I'll just keep experimenting.

It's just that I've been working on this song for over a year and am finally close to getting it done. It actually sounds pretty good without any bass, as I've layered 3 guitar tracks and am tuned to C# Standard. But I'd just like a little bottom end in there to make the song more well-rounded.

I guess I'm just anxious to get it done.


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## OmegaSlayer (Jun 3, 2015)

I say don't follow the guitar, but try to give groove, maybe built a kind of hypnotic line that fits under every chord of the progression.
Add layers, don't go for speed.


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## GenghisCoyne (Jun 3, 2015)

Whatever you do make sure its inaudible otherwise its not kvlt.


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## Argo (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't know about what the bass does because the mix is always kinda cray but I feel like you don't even need to make sure everything lines up because a lot of the time the blasts don't line up and get off because they were recorded on tape or 8 track recorder. Black metal is really about the atomosphere. So just play really ....ing fast and make some noise


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## giantchris (Jun 4, 2015)

It really depends on how tight you're playing on bass is imho. If you're going to play fast and I'm assuming you're picking I'd probably run a mic/DI or a clean DI and a dirty DI and have the clean DI compressed like crazy and let the mic/dirty do all the dynamics and pick attack. A lot of guys that play really fast play pretty clean (see Cannibal Corpse or, at least when I saw them live, Nachtmystium, or Obscura, etc.) Basically if you're playing is really tight I'd do fast if it isn't I'd do slow. But keep in mind your tone when picking how to do you're tracking.


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## A-Branger (Jun 4, 2015)

the bass is the instrument that has both functions, rhythm and harmony. The job of a bass player on a band is to be able to merge what the drummer is doing with what the guitar player is playing. Playing bass is not as easy and boring as many ppl think it is..... and no, is not about just playing the root note. So is up to you to interpret the guitar harmonies with the rythm of the drums

at the worse you dont know what to do, always follow the kick drum lol.... 

but in reality, see what you like and what it feels better to the song in what specific part of it. You can do both, play the same of the guitar, or play a groove to follow the drummer. Both cases works, and both cases would drag attention to different instruments, and both cases would give a different atmosphere to the song

See what you like, and see what the song need for that bit. Maybe not everyone has to play 16th notes including the drummer. he can be playing hard hits at 4th notes with the bass, and even one of the guitars too and jsut leave the other guitar going nuts at 16th for a few bars and latter everyone joins him..... dunno, just try, experiment and good luck

\m/


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## Nick (Jun 4, 2015)

i generally play 8ths for fast 16th drum/guitar parts. Sometimes you can find an alternate rhythm with drum accents that you can play along to that sounds cool but if its just straight blasting as black metal tends to be with minimum fills and accents i'd just go with 8ths to keep it solid sounding


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## Veldar (Jun 5, 2015)

the bassist from deafheaven plays 8ths instead of 16ths, sounds fine to me.


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## NeglectedField (Jun 10, 2015)

Ah, a Winterfylleth fan I see!

I'd say go for 8ths rather than 16ths, it'll give you a clearer, more driving and more stable sound.


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## 7stringDemon (Jun 10, 2015)

Honestly dude, it's your metal. You can have the bass playing a major scale bassline in the wrong key and timing if you really want.


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## Michael_Ten (Jun 10, 2015)

You're recording bass for a black metal album? Here's what you do:
1. plug bass in to Line 6 Spider amp
2. turn on "insane" channel and turn distortion up to 10
3. play low E string as fast as possible
4. release album


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## DXL (Jun 10, 2015)

I would go for gallops or 8ths if playing 16th notes


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## KailM (Jun 11, 2015)

NeglectedField said:


> Ah, a Winterfylleth fan I see!
> .



Hellz yes! They are a huge inspiration for me in terms of their overall great production (yet still unarguably black metal) and songwriting. I'm really trying to get a production quality more on their end of the spectrum as opposed to the early 90s no-bass/treble cranked production. However, my songs are different from their style somewhat. I'm trying to blend a little bit of death metal style and tone into it as well. However, this first song I've recorded is pure black metal with ambient passages.

***

Overall, thanks to everyone for their input -- it's been very informative!

I am done laying down the bass tracks now. In the end, I went with straight-up 16th-note tremelo picking after all to match the guitar tracks. I recorded one clean take and then copied it and added distortion to the second track. This song is primarily composed of a simplistic Darkthrone-esque blast beat and tremelo picked riff progression. There is a section right at the end where it slows down and gets heavier, and there I actually played a groove on the bass which sounds great. But for the rest of the song, I didn't want to hear much of the attack on the bass or really any kind of a groove -- so I just filled in the bottom end a bit by playing along with the guitars.

But for some of my next songs that I intend to record, I will be visiting the information in this thread again.

Thanks again, everyone!


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## Herrick (Jun 11, 2015)

Sometimes, playing half the notes the guitars play can give the bass more solidity, definition, and presence.


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## tomcat ha (Oct 19, 2015)

the idea that bass isnt present in norwegian black metal is actually wrong. It just sounds very different from what a bass guitar typically would sound like. 
Personally i do whatever what fits best with the riff in terms of playing. Sometimes i play in harmony sometimes i don't. Sometimes i play root notes sometimes i go do something very different.


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## crg123 (Oct 19, 2015)

Nvm


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## The Omega Cluster (Oct 19, 2015)

I think most BM bass player play 8th notes when tremolo picking. That or you can get a bit inventive and play a cool groove, like Ne Obliviscaris.


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## Bloodshredder (Oct 19, 2015)

Depends on what sounds best. With 16th, try around and start with 16th. You can try faster (lol) and slower. 

I mostly use quarter notes, but then I play those with my fingers. It all tends to start to wobble when i use 16th fingerstyle.


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## iron blast (Oct 20, 2015)

Mix it up play for the song I don't have a rule of thumb for if I tremolo pick or play quarter or half time I always try to play some kind of melody lines when the the riffs are just doing rythem lines to keep things interesting. As a bassist in a black metal band I try to keep things from getting monotonous the best I can. If you just follow the guitar lines to a t it will get boring very fast. Lock in with drums and rythem guitar following root notes of the chords feel free to do some melodic flourishes here and there. As far as bass tones go I like abit of grit and use a sansamp vt deluxe in front of my Eden navigator pre. I tend to find p style pups sound very good for this genre of music too


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