# Racism: Can we all please stop giving a shit?



## JaeSwift (Mar 26, 2010)

In seriousness;

Me being half Dutch, half English and currently living in Holland for the past 20 years I've come to a few observations. Whenever I'm in America, if I'm talking to anyone of any skin colour and mention that some of my best friends are ''coloured'' or have a specific skin colour, they get extremely offended.

When I say the same thing in Holland, at least out of the groups of people I choose to hang around with, no one gives a crap.

Why anyone would be offended by being described by their skin colour is so beyond me that it's hard for me to logically argument this. It's a part of you, it determines what you look like, just like the colour of your hair, your height and the way you dress.

If everyone would suddenly just stop giving a shit about people describing others by their appearances, don't you think the world would be one step closer to being more pleasant towards everyone?

Word's are just a combination of letters, it's people who give them a meaning.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 26, 2010)

I think it may have to do with the terminology you're using that gets people a little offended. 

The term "colored" over here in the US is looked on as a racial slur in many case, and even in the very best context it's an antiquated term. You have to take into account how different words are used in different societies.

You may also want to consider the rather different histories between blacks in the US, and those in Holland.


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## Randy (Mar 26, 2010)

While I understand your sentiment, more often than not, it has less to do with referencing somebody's ethnicity and more to do with the manner in which you do it. People (and maybe even Americans, specifically) are receptive to phraseology. I've had times where I'll tell somebody the same exact thing, two different ways and solicit a different response either way. It sucks sometimes, but it's just the art of conversation, really. 

EDIT: 'd by Max.


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## Tiger (Mar 26, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You may also want to consider the rather different histories between blacks in the US, and those in Holland.




This.

No offense, but get a clue.


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## JaeSwift (Mar 26, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think it may have to do with the terminology you're using that gets people a little offended.
> 
> The term "colored" over here in the US is looked on as a racial slur in many case, and even in the very best context it's an antiquated term. You have to take into account how different words are used in different societies.
> 
> You may also want to consider the rather different histories between blacks in the US, and those in Holland.



I know, and I anticipated this reply the moment I posted, I was just a little too lazy to edit ;<_<

I realise there are different histories, different means of conversation and different cultures etc. (I study Communication Management and have a degree in Social Work so I know all about this). I'm also not saying that I would deliberatly call people out by their skin colour just to prove a point.

What I'm trying to say is, if everyone could just disregard history (it's history, it's in the past) and stop assosciating comments about skin colour with negativity, wouldn't the world be just a little better off?

It's kind of like not being allowed to say the N word with ER on the end, but the N word with an A on the end is perfectly fine. It's the meaning people give to these words and the past assosciations they bring with them that calls up on agressive reactions and negativity in my opinion.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 26, 2010)

JaeSwift said:


> I know, and I anticipated this reply the moment I posted, I was just a little too lazy to edit ;<_<
> 
> I realise there are different histories, different means of conversation and different cultures etc. (I study Communication Management and have a degree in Social Work so I know all about this). I'm also not saying that I would deliberatly call people out by their skin colour just to prove a point.
> 
> ...



You have to understand that throwing away, in many cases thousands of years of history, full of bigotry, hatred, and the like, is not something that's going to happen over night. 

From those who I've known and met over the years, it's not as bad as you think, and compared to the times in which our parents lived things have gotten a lot better. 

Don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps if you had a history similar to that of blacks in North America circa 1620 - 1960 you'd have a better understanding of why they can't just "let it go". 

I'm not disagreeing with you, just understand the context.


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## Origin (Mar 26, 2010)

I think it's perfectly fine to refer to someone by their physical appearance, it makes it a lot goddamn easier for the person you're talking to to know who you're talking about. 'The large man,' 'the black dude with the glasses,' I really don't see a problem with it, I sympathize with how others may be offended but I'm certainly not going to empathize, I'm not directing hate.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 26, 2010)

Origin said:


> I think it's perfectly fine to refer to someone by their physical appearance, it makes it a lot goddamn easier for the person you're talking to to know who you're talking about. 'The large man,' 'the black dude with the glasses,' I really don't see a problem with it, I sympathize with how others may be offended but I'm certainly not going to empathize, I'm not directing hate.



Though, you wouldn't say the "colored pig with four eyes", or the "fatass pig".

This isn't about calling someone by what they are. For instance calling a black person black, this is about calling a black person by a well known racial slur, in this case, "colored".


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## scottro202 (Mar 26, 2010)

Origin said:


> I think it's perfectly fine to refer to someone by their physical appearance, it makes it a lot goddamn easier for the person you're talking to to know who you're talking about. 'The large man,' 'the black dude with the glasses,' I really don't see a problem with it, I sympathize with how others may be offended but I'm certainly not going to empathize, I'm not directing hate.



Yeah. That's almost like a short person being offended by saying "That short girl over there". I say "almost", because short people haven't been discriminated against for hundreds of years. But I think you get my point. 

Physical appearance=/=racist-ness


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## QuambaFu (Mar 27, 2010)

Didn't the Dutch start the slave trade between Africa and the US?


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## Jogeta (Mar 27, 2010)

*RANT ALERT*

With a decade of multicultural boarding school under my belt I have seen first hand that people are just people. We all have a hell of a lot more in common than we have that separates us.

I couldn't agree more with the OP. Words and V.I.D.s aren't racist. Their use in certain contexts, however, can be.

When someone goes out of their way to treat you differently based on their preconceptions of you - you are experiencing discrimination. It can be _very_ annoying. But will getting angry at that person help them overcome their ignorance? Will it help you or anyone in the long run?

Will it [email protected]#k!

From what I have seen in the world at large there are a lot of people that should spine up and check their egos. Just because you're not a "western christian white guy" (or whatever the media is currently using as its baseline) doesn't mean the whole world is out to get you. Sorry but you're not that important! You'd enjoy life a lot more without a huge chip on your shoulder.

There are _exponentially_ more people that would benefit from being slapped every time they decide to deal with their fear of the unknown via racism, misandry and misogyny.

If these people treat you like this then simply conduct yourself with dignity as a human and deal with it. This is your most efficient tool to break down the walls of stupidity that are keeping arrogant, racist and derogatory people from joining us as members of Humanity.


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## anthonyferguson (Mar 27, 2010)

^wot he said

some people should mtfu


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## jymellis (Mar 27, 2010)

personally i dont see why i would bring up a friends "color" you wouldnt prolly know i had "colored"friends until you met them because they get talked about just like any other friend i really dont even understand why it would be brought up


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## sol niger 333 (Mar 27, 2010)

Using the word "colored" in a dutch accent to describe a maori or islander in my country would not make you any friends either. It's the stigma associated with that word and the era in which that term was used. It actually sounds more condescending to me than "n$#@er" albeit not as derogatory. I do understand that you never meant it to come across that way but it probably did. I also agree that people need to chill out on the "racist" trigger happy finger pointing, but sometimes common sense and etiquette can avoid the finger pointing at you..


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## jymellis (Mar 27, 2010)

im 75% native american, when i talk to my cousin on the phone back home,im not telling him about what me and the "white" guys do lol. what term would you guys use for me?


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## signalgrey (Mar 27, 2010)

americans are very sensitive, be gentle with us


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 27, 2010)

I find that in the UK, the only people who give a shit are the ones who are always saying "You can't say that!" or "You can't _think_ that!" - you know, the way overly politically correct ones that treat everything with hypersensitivity.

Fuck those guys.


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## Demiurge (Mar 27, 2010)

The word "colored" is not a racial slur, but its usage has a stigma attached to it as it was often the term used to designate areas for black people (such as bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc.- "coloreds only") as opposed to "whites only." I've never heard somebody use the word when intending to issue a racial slur, but it's just one of those unfortunate terms from a shameful time.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 27, 2010)

i think trying to sugar coat it, by saying "colored" instead of "black" is what's causing the offense. black people are black people. colored people makes it sound like you're afraid to really mention it as it is, and it sounds like an illness. it's like with people who have dwarfism. what the hell do you call them? what is too direct, and what is too sugar coated?

you can be too consealed about it, and too upfront about it. both will be offensive.

it's like with gay people, actually. people used to say "he's batting for the wrong team, if ya know what i mean!", and would call them frilly, fruits, and all that stuff, to avoid the terms homosexual and gay. those were the hard words that spat it in your face. now it's expected to be upfront about it, and say it as it is. no acting like it's a shameful thing, it's just a fact. a person is gay. that's all. same with black people.

it seems the same thing is happening with atheists in more religious communities. it's not like "he's a non-believer", it's "he's an atheist". the "harder" word is pushed right out there so people stop being all "OMFG WOT!?" about it, and it becomes normal.

so yeah, i'd say it's really about being upfront about it. say a black guy, not a person of color, or whatever.

also, has anyone thought about how it's okay to call a black man "black", but it's racist to call a chinese man "yellow"? i mean, sure he's not actually YELLOW, but black people aren't BLACK either. they're just varying shades of chocolate brown 

on the flip side of this, i hate it whenever i hear black people crying racism over everything because they are expecting racism from all ends, not realizing no-one cares about their color. like when there was a meeting about the town economy somewhere in the US (i have no idea where it was), and the guy that was speaking (white guy) said "the whole economy/spending is just being sucked into a black hole". the black guy, sitting at the same table, went "a BLACK hole?!", giving him the stare of death. the white guy had a look of "oh god, here he goes again!", and jokingly said "oh, what?! okay then, a WHITE hole!". black guy was not pleased, and started ranting about racism all over the place, etc, and the other guy was all "do you not know anything about the universe? it's a term from astronomy!". apparently this didn't matter.

they had to issue an official apology to get him to calm down about it.

i think we all know the type. the guy who has been told by his parents all his life about how cruel and racist white people can be, and how they put you down, etc, not realizing racism is fading away around them. the guy grows up to be prepared to jump at any mention of the word "black" in a negative context for the rest of his life.

it's unfortunate, and i totally see where it's coming from, but it's really annoying when you really don't even notice that someone is of a different race, because it's irrelevant to you, and they suddenly get all riled up about being discriminated for their race, because they're looking for things to misinterpret.

anyways, the whole racism issue is going to take a long time to go away. in part because of racist people passing on their ignorance, and partly because of people being weary about it, and the whole "white guilt" thing. sure, it's illogical, but so is most of the things people find offensive.


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## Esp Griffyn (Mar 27, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I find that in the UK, the only people who give a shit are the ones who are always saying "You can't say that!" or "You can't _think_ that!" - you know, the way overly politically correct ones that treat everything with hypersensitivity.
> 
> Fuck those guys.



Amen.


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## InTheRavensName (Mar 27, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I find that in the UK, the only people who give a shit are the ones who are always saying "You can't say that!" or "You can't _think_ that!" - you know, the way overly politically correct ones that treat everything with hypersensitivity.
> 
> Fuck those guys.



I love those guys, they give me a reason to keep talking.


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## 13point9 (Mar 27, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I find that in the UK, the only people who give a shit are the ones who are always saying "You can't say that!" or "You can't _think_ that!" - you know, the way overly politically correct ones that treat everything with hypersensitivity.
> 
> Fuck those guys.



This

but we do also have the overzealous folk who jump at anything as "racist" as a ploy to get what they want, (seen it in the job centre when i was unemployed)


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Mar 27, 2010)

IMO, black people are really brown, so i dont like calling them black, but then again, white people arnt really white


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 27, 2010)

13point9 said:


> This
> 
> but we do also have the overzealous folk who jump at anything as "racist" as a ploy to get what they want, (seen it in the job centre when i was unemployed)



Yeah, it's called "The Race Card".


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## 13point9 (Mar 27, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Yeah, it's called "The Race Card".



*slaps self for forgetting the term*


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## Randy (Mar 27, 2010)

13point9 said:


> (seen it in the job centre when i was unemployed)



Could you elaborate? Like, people were literally saying "You racist fuck! Give me a job because I'm {fill in the blank}"?


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## 13point9 (Mar 27, 2010)

Randy said:


> Could you elaborate? Like, people were literally saying "You racist fuck! Give me a job because I'm {fill in the blank}"?



In the UK, its called "jobseekers allowance", eg you have to prove that you are looking for work in order to get the benefit...

It would normally be along the lines of...

"you haven't filled out your forms stating that your actually looking for a job. I can't sign you off for this week"

"you're being harsh on me because I'm (insert race here) you let everyone else go fine" *kicks up a fuss*

"OK OK clam down, just make sure you do it next week" *signs off benefits*

Hell my Job Centre had security guards to protect staff from violent applicants...


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## Neil (Mar 27, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The term "colored" over here in the US is looked on as a racial slur in many case


Thats hilarious, in the UK you are suppose to say coloured as opposed to black because of all the damn political correctness...

Its retarded...


But then again we cant say brain storm any more


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 27, 2010)

If I want to say black I will say black. It's perfectly within the boundaries of political correctness and to look into it any further than that is simply idiotic.


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## Randy (Mar 27, 2010)

Neil said:


> But then again we cant say brain storm any more



We can't...?


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## 13point9 (Mar 27, 2010)

Nope its not PC apparently...


Now brainstorms are off the agenda | Politics | The Observer


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 27, 2010)

Neil said:


> Thats hilarious, in the UK you are suppose to say coloured as opposed to black because of all the damn political correctness...
> 
> Its retarded...
> 
> ...



It's certainly silly, but then again, it's usually a good idea to see what means what when you go to another country.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 27, 2010)

13point9 said:


> Nope its not PC apparently...
> 
> 
> Now brainstorms are off the agenda | Politics | The Observer



does anyone else find this really offensive? like, they remove it because it might be offensive towards people with brain disorders etc... to me that's offensive, because it would be suggesting that having a brain disorder means you can't brainstorm, can't think of anything smart... yeah, sounds offensive in my book. if i had a brain disorder (and technically i kinda do, actually ), i would want to be proud about the fact that i'm brainstorming, like everyone else. i'm being intelligent, like everyone else. why is that a bad thing?

next thing you know, they'll remove "get off your high horse" because it's offensive to shetland ponies.


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## Andii (Mar 27, 2010)

There is only the human race.


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## Triple-J (Mar 27, 2010)

Neil said:


> Thats hilarious, in the UK you are suppose to say coloured as opposed to black because of all the damn political correctness...
> 
> Its retarded...



I've noticed that it's the other way around as many people really go out of their way to avoid calling me black and seem scared to death of saying the word cause they think I'm going to flip out go nuts and piledrive someone into the pavement if they do.

Personally the term coloured doesn't offend me (although I do see why it offends in other countries) I just don't think it makes much sense as I've always took it to mean "coloured differently from yourself" so in that respect Jackie Chan, Danny Trejo and Henry Rollins are all coloured guys to me.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 27, 2010)

"coloured" is supposed to mean "not white", suggesting white is un-coloured, and then all the other races are different shades from that.

i see how that makes sense in a sorting system kinda way, because you could organize it all in a gradient, but then you have the problem of white people being coloured too, since we're not actually white.

so yeah, coloured is a mixed results kinda thing. depends on who hears it, i guess. some would find the toning down offensive, others appropriate.

i know the PC thing to say in the US is "african american", but what the hell do you say in the UK? "african englishman" sounds daft as hell, and any combo of "african" and some location name sounds too long, and awkwardly phrased.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 27, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> "coloured" is supposed to mean "not white", suggesting white is un-coloured, and then all the other races are different shades from that.
> 
> i see how that makes sense in a sorting system kinda way, because you could organize it all in a gradient, but then you have the problem of white people being coloured too, since we're not actually white.
> 
> ...



I think it's shifting more to "black" over here in the US. I've noticed more "official" things saying "black" as opposed to "African American", such as smaller newspapers and TV/Radio personalities. 

I guess Obama is our "colored" friend now, so it's okay.


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## Paulfocused (Mar 27, 2010)

This thread reminds me of a guy in my high school class who gets angry (not just offended) if anyone identifies him as asian. Ah yes, I love my racially-phobic country (homophobic and atheist-phobic as well, but that's a different matter of course). If you think it's that bad to say "colored", wait until you truthfully tell someone that you are only attracted to white counterparts such as yourself. You'll be called a racist, and yes I've seen this happen more than once even though the person who made the statement obviously meant no harm. I laugh every time I hear the word "racism", and laugh even harder when I'm supposed to feel sorry for what happened to jews and blacks in the past.


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## IDLE (Mar 28, 2010)

I think it's because anyone with a skin color other than white has a small penis and they don't like to be reminded of that. 

Beats me though, I've never noticed that here. What part of America are you in?

The only thing that bugs me is that no one is white or black, it's more peach to dark brown.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 28, 2010)

Race is a silly and stupid concept. Even if two groups of people look pretty much the same, people find some difference to reinforce some non-existent point to advance an agenda. I'm part Slavic and part Polish, and those two groups have been persecuted plenty, though if you took a Pole and a Russian, or maybe even a Pole and a German and put them in front of the average American, I'm guessing that they wouldn't be able to tell the difference, much less guess that one oppressed the other at one or more points in history. The color thing in the States is fucking stupid. If anyone gets shit, there had better be a damn good reason behind it. Just because I don't have a lot of pigmentation doesn't mean my ancestors were members of a lynch mob in Mississippi. The only reason I'm here is because my grandparents were fleeing persecution, yet if I told somebody I was Dalmatian, they wouldn't even know that was a group of people, so why lump me in with the same group that started this whole white/colored thing? My family had nothing to do with this country's history, I don't care if some Western European invaders were pricks to just about everyone who didn't look like them (and even then, there was hatred for Irish immigrants by the established "white" Americans into the twentieth century, and that's about as white as you can get without becoming translucent). I have no problem with anyone being anything, yet I have to deal with this shit because of a bunch of past and present ignorants with whom I share no association, ideological or otherwise? It's bullshit. Racism is possibly the most immature ideology out there, and I can't imagine a reason for it outside of lack of education and ability to reason.

What's more disgusting is that racism was actually a national policy in a number of nations in recent years (and continues to be), and that irresponsible governments so effectively distort the thinking of their people.


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## Demiurge (Mar 28, 2010)

Paulfocused said:


> I laugh every time I hear the word "racism", and laugh even harder when I'm supposed to feel sorry for what happened to jews and blacks in the past.



 I can understand the position of wanting to move beyond the issue of race and whatnot- it can be an enlightened perspective; however, you cite two examples (both slavery and genocide born from a crude notion of eugenics) that show that in recent history there are people who take the notion of race very seriously and have done some fucked-up things because of it. With that, the respective societies involved want to do as much as they can to distance themselves and try to make-up for past transgressions but I can agree that political correctness is kind of a blunt instrument used to reach that end. Racism is obviously real and we should do what we can to combat it, but what we have in place doesn't seem to work and in fact seems to be racist itself- the worst thing about political correctness is that its use is just so awkward it just reeks of insincerity. If a person's race affects how they are treated- for better or for worse- it's racism in play.


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 28, 2010)

I think Paul meant that he laughs when people tell him that he's somehow guilty by association... i.e. 

"You're white and white people owe us reparations, even if your family had no history of owning slaves, and even if your family wasn't in the US at the time of slavery, you owe us b/c you're white" 

or 

"How can you call yourself a logical, sane person.. Christians and their hatred for the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust. Ya know, religion is responsible for more deaths than yada yada yada and the Holocaust proves it."

or

"Jews killed Jesus, therefor we should hate the Jews."

These guilt by association quotes drive me insane. How can we change the way we were born? Here's an interesting question... if you met a smoking hot chick and found out that she was the daughter of a cousin of Hitler, would that change your perception of her? Would you still be able to date her?


BTW, I'm an Asian Christian living in the South and I haven't had a problem with racism. It seems like the racist people around here just have beef with black people for some odd reason.


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## TonalArchitect (Mar 28, 2010)

Demiurge said:


> The word "colored" is not a racial slur, but its usage has a stigma attached to it as it was often the term used to designate areas for black people (such as bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc.- "coloreds only") as opposed to "whites only." I've never heard somebody use the word when intending to issue a racial slur, but it's just one of those unfortunate terms from a shameful time.



Exactly. I don't think "colored" is a slur, just antiquated and rather naive sounding.




SchecterWhore said:


> What's more disgusting is that racism was actually a national policy in a number of nations in recent years (and continues to be), and that irresponsible governments so effectively distort the thinking of their people.



You ever hear of the Emergency Quota Act? 

Please, endear yourself with this fine piece of American History*


Emergency Quota Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And followed up by the fucking _wonderrific _Immigration Act of 1924. And why? Because the racist dipshits who made up America in the '20s (there was public outrcry because the other act wasn't severe enough) didn't want our "stock" to be deluded. 

Immigration Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*This is sarcasm so thick, that you could spread it on toast. 

Sometimes I just fucking loathe humanity for our intolerance.


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## Paulfocused (Mar 28, 2010)

BigPhi84 said:


> I think Paul meant that he laughs when people tell him that he's somehow guilty by association... i.e.
> 
> "You're white and white people owe us reparations, even if your family had no history of owning slaves, and even if your family wasn't in the US at the time of slavery, you owe us b/c you're white"
> 
> ...



Thanks, that's exactly what I mean. I live in northwest Georgia, but a lot of places in the South aren't bad (such as douglasviile near Atlanta). The place I live in is pretty cut off, so I suppose that possibly has something to do with nearly everyone being race sensitive.

We're all humans with different breeds (such as cats having different breeds) and cultural differences. Ancient people evolved in different areas, that's all. It's amazing how out of proportion we can make things. I think we can all learn from cat's acceptance of other species and/or breeds (dogs too).


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 28, 2010)

BigPhi84 said:


> Here's an interesting question... if you met a smoking hot chick and found out that she was the daughter of a cousin of Hitler, would that change your perception of her? Would you still be able to date her?



That'd probably make me more attacted to her 









JOKE.


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## Paulfocused (Mar 28, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> ....and that's about as white as you can get without becoming translucent....



Haha, my brother and I are pretty much translucent. You can see the veins all throughout our chests. I can't tell you how many times we've been burned badly even while using sunscreen. Vamperism FTW


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## Randy (Mar 28, 2010)

Lest we forget that this went down not even 10 years ago:

Alabama To Vote On Ending Interracial Marriage Ban During November Elections | Jet | Find Articles at BNET

...and there was actually substantial resistance at the time. Hell, they even tried to pass the measure a year earlier but it died before it could make it out of committee.

So yeah, some of the wounds are still a little fresh.


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## tacotiklah (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't get why people have to push the racial issue this day either. I dig how Obama refuses to answer any questions about what it's like to be a black president because he does NOT want race to become an issue regarding the presidency. We should see things in that light too. It ain't about black and white, it's about people and how they treat each other. I don't care if you're brown, black, pink, green, white, or translucent, if you're cool with me, I return the favor. If you treat me like crap, I'll fuck you up. I think we can all live and agree by that right?

I dunno, maybe it's easier for me to see past external differences and see people for who they are and not what I want them to be.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 29, 2010)

TonalArchitect said:


> You ever hear of the Emergency Quota Act?
> 
> Please, endear yourself with this fine piece of American History*
> 
> ...



Dude, I wrote a paper not too long ago that mentioned that act. It's astounding how many countries had eugenics *laws* in the twentieth century, including the US (perhaps especially).



Paulfocused said:


> We're all humans with different breeds (such as cats having different breeds) and cultural differences. Ancient people evolved in different areas, that's all. It's amazing how out of proportion we can make things. I think we can all learn from cat's acceptance of other species and/or breeds (dogs too).



Speaking as a guy who lives with a zoo of cats (check my NGD threads, there's usually at least one in there), I can tell you right now that cats generally hate each other, even if they're biological brothers. At least they're not hatin' for something as stupid as race, though. 



ghstofperdition said:


> I don't get why people have to push the racial issue this day either. I dig how Obama refuses to answer any questions about what it's like to be a black president because he does NOT want race to become an issue regarding the presidency. We should see things in that light too. It ain't about black and white, it's about people and how they treat each other. I don't care if you're brown, black, pink, green, white, or translucent, if you're cool with me, I return the favor. If you treat me like crap, I'll fuck you up. I think we can all live and agree by that right?
> 
> I dunno, maybe it's easier for me to see past external differences and see people for who they are and not what I want them to be.



I wish everybody thought like you.


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## Mr Violence (Mar 29, 2010)

Every single reply in this thread offends me. You'll all be hearing from my lawyer. 


I believe how you look is a valid descriptor. Living in a "colorless" society is ideal for avoiding the race card. Not ideal for reality. If someone mugs you, you're not going to describe him as just a man. You're going to describe every detail you can think of, including skin color.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. The person you're describing is the only person that decides whether to be offended or not. If they're of sane mind and not an asshole, they can usually interpret from more than just the words whether you're being malicious or not. The downside is even though people know you're not trying to offend, they'll take it that way and stir up shit for the sake of it, or to look like a victim, or gain something, or just because *they're* being malicious.

That said, you still want to watch your words _because_ of those people. Even if you're the kindest soul on Earth, many things you say can and will most likely be interpreted as offensive by *some*one.

This is why the whole racism discussion is tired and will never go away. People being racist are just as guilty as people calling racism. Being offended worsens the problem just as much as being racist.

The solution? There isn't one. There never will be a clear cut answer. So just roll with the punches, watch your mouth and always anticipate the worst way someone could react.


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## xtrustisyoursx (Mar 29, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> on the flip side of this, i hate it whenever i hear black people crying racism over everything because they are expecting racism from all ends, not realizing no-one cares about their color. like when there was a meeting about the town economy somewhere in the US (i have no idea where it was), and the guy that was speaking (white guy) said "the whole economy/spending is just being sucked into a black hole". the black guy, sitting at the same table, went "a BLACK hole?!", giving him the stare of death. the white guy had a look of "oh god, here he goes again!", and jokingly said "oh, what?! okay then, a WHITE hole!". black guy was not pleased, and started ranting about racism all over the place, etc, and the other guy was all "do you not know anything about the universe? it's a term from astronomy!". apparently this didn't matter.
> 
> they had to issue an official apology to get him to calm down about it.



Or what about last year after Obama's election when some guy got fired because he referred to an action of the Obama administration as "niggardly"

niggardly - 
Pronunciation: \-l&#275;\
Function: _adjective_ 
Date: 1571
*1* *:* grudgingly mean about spending or granting


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## Randy (Mar 29, 2010)

Have context for that comment? Because I can't think of anything that's been "grudgingly mean about spending or granting" about the Obama administration. Aside from that, it just sounds like somebody trying to be deliberately provocative.


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## Paulfocused (Mar 29, 2010)

"You should feel sorry. It's sad and disgusting what people have been through because of their race. You sound like a dick" <<< Whoever posted this on my profile should re-read what I had typed. I never once said anything of malice. I'm sure you just clicked on the wrong profile, but either way you need to use your glassses.


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## avenger (Mar 29, 2010)

13point9 said:


> Nope its not PC apparently...
> 
> 
> Now brainstorms are off the agenda | Politics | The Observer


 Uggg when can we rid the world of these people?


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## Demiurge (Mar 29, 2010)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> Or what about last year after Obama's election when some guy got fired because he referred to an action of the Obama administration as "niggardly"
> 
> niggardly -
> Pronunciation: \-l&#275;\
> ...



The same thing happened a few years ago with the same word. Washington D.C. stores need to stop selling "Word of the Day" desk calendars or somethin'.


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## xtrustisyoursx (Mar 29, 2010)

Controversies about the word "niggardly" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Daggorath (Mar 29, 2010)

I couldn't agree more. Anti-racism and being overly wary of your actions around people of other ethnicities is racist in itself. Political correctness gone mad I tell you! *grumbles*


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## Customisbetter (Mar 29, 2010)

Randy said:


> Have context for that comment? Because I can't think of anything that's been "grudgingly mean about spending or granting" about the Obama administration. Aside from that, it just sounds like somebody trying to be deliberately provocative.



sorry if i am misreading Randy, but is this Sarcasm? Im thinking it is... because if it isn't, then I'm confused.


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## Randy (Mar 29, 2010)

No, that was honest confusion. I'm a liberal Democrat that voted and even campaigned for Obama, and even I'll admit that his spending has been anything but "grudgingly mean about spending or granting". For the life of me, I couldn't _brainstorm_ lol a scenario which somebody would've been characterizing him or his administration as such.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 29, 2010)

Hmm... i guess my view of the Healthcare Bill and its handling is vastly different than yours.


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## Randy (Mar 29, 2010)

Allow me to sharpen my understanding a little further... I interpreted "grudgingly mean about spending or granting" as a synonym for "stingy" or "penny-pinching". Maybe I'm off on my understanding, but if not, I wouldn't consider the price tag on any of the Obama administrations programs to be miserly. 

EDIT: Infact, one of the synonyms listed is "illiberal".  Either the guy who said that was a _really far left liberal_ or he was looking for an excuse to throw something phonically similar to a racial slur at him. Again, without full context I have no idea.


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## Customisbetter (Mar 30, 2010)

Oh i took the definition the opposite way. As in "forecefully spending"

im probably wrong.


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## orb451 (Mar 30, 2010)

I remember reading something a school-kid had written way back. It went something like this:

"When I am sick, I am Black. When you are sick, you turn green. When I am embarrassed, I am Black. When you you are embarrased, you turn red. When I can't breathe, I am Black. When you can't breathe, you turn blue. When I am happy and excited, I am Black. When you are happy and excited, you turn pink. And you call _me _colored?"

I think it's a pretty apt observation for a young kid. To me at least, I think you should be respectful and mindful of your surroundings. I have black friends and when I'm around them and we happen to talk about other black folks, I refer to them as blacks. Not colored, not African-American, etc. That's how they refer to themselves (my friends) so as long as they're cool with it, I'm cool with it.

It all comes down to the individual and what they're comfortable with. I agree with other posters that quite often the race card gets played. And I also think that by and large, people are wayyyyyyyy too sensitive to everything these days, and need to lighten the fuck up, but that does not at all mean that they don't deserve basic common courtesy and respect.


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## Guitarwiz2k (Mar 30, 2010)

Dare I put my 2 pence in and stirr the pot a bit.  I was born in Jamaica, Black. I came to the States here and found out about racism by a little girl that told me, "we coudn't play together, becuse she was white and I was black" this was coming from, at the time, a cuban girl. Who fled from a country of persecution herself. Now, did she learn it from her parents, who were good friends of my mom and dad, or did she learn it from other kids, spreading the stigma.

That said, old money and new money in this country, and the abyss that separates people from wealth. For a long time, this country was built on either, using of others, taking from others, or abusing others. This has changed over time, but companies built way back when are still the foundation of this country, mostly white owned corporations, some new ones spring up here and there, but you get the idea.

So already this was a rocky start, but now a days, almost all is forgiven, because no one can tell most jews, from arabic, from lighter mouslim, from darker spanish. But I have to say, when I talk to some companies for work, I have the most wonderful of interviews over the phone, and present my self very articulate; but the expression I get from that same person when I first walk into their office for that 2nd or 3rd visual interview is unmistakable. 

Now, is it because I'm black, were they expecting someone else, how will that person judge me... When I walk down the street and pass a group of American girls, will they walk by in fear, and is that fear because of my color or because of me being a guy, and if another guy is walking by, is that fear because of my color or not... 

The problem is psychological, physical, economical and cultural... It won't go away over a short time, but I do find that, most people these days, much like me, don't give a crap. My wife is as white as the driven snow, I live here in Maine, as they say, the whitest state in the union. We have a new son who will never learn of this if I can help it, and step kids who are half German, but very good, very smart, and very kind. They all look at me as a father figure in the home, with no judgment... So, I've learned that it's all up to the individual how they conduct themselves to have others judge, but some people will always have something negative to say or stereo type or classify each other to excuse their behavior.

As for the mention of money, I would imagine if the power struggle wasn't so off center and everyone felt as if they were getting a fair share, it woudn't bother certain nationalities. I want an equal shot at equal pay, equal jobs, and fair treatment, when that isn't happening, the "WHY" jumps out, and sometimes I can't help but wonder, "Is it that unmistakable look"?


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## george galatis (Mar 30, 2010)

QuambaFu said:


> Didn't the Dutch start the slave trade between Africa and the US?



was Spain and next, France and England both....


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 30, 2010)

norway never had slaves. the only black people we have are refugees.

i think there were norwegian shipping companies that were hired by denmark and some other coutnries to ship slaves to other countries, but we never actually had any. so i think it's weird that there's that whole dark history hanging over america, ya know?


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## RenegadeDave (Mar 31, 2010)

Late to the party:

You can't use the term "colored" or "coloured" in the US because it was a term used in the segregationist days prior to the civil rights movement. Allow me to illustrate:


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## Andromalia (Apr 10, 2010)

Neil said:


> Thats hilarious, in the UK you are suppose to say coloured as opposed to black because of all the damn political correctness...



Well, all countries have their specifics relating to what's perceived as offensive or not.
The issue is only difficult becuase you have on both sides stupid extremists ready to grab at anything to make a point.

-"You shall not ever use whatever could possibly be seen as interpreting one's race" as a descriptive on one side.
-Extreme right wing racist organisations whom I won't quote on the other.


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## McKay (Apr 11, 2010)

Check out this African American:


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## Andromalia (Apr 11, 2010)

What's with the african american term in itself anyway ? Those people are born in the states and have nothing to do with africa.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 11, 2010)

does anyone remember the student at some american school that got into a huge shit-storm for referring to himself as being "african american"? he was a white african, so what was he supposed to call himself?


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 11, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> What's with the african american term in itself anyway ? Those people are born in the states and have nothing to do with africa.



It's yet another example of an antiquated term being used in modern day. It was originally coined in the early to mid 1800's that literally referred to the black slaves that were brought from Africa, and subsequently their immediate offspring. 

For one reason or another, it's been championed by PC groups, as well as Black groups within the US, but the term itself is starting to be phased out as people start meshing more, and caring less. The term "Black" is a lot more excepted then it once was. At least from what I've seen.


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## tacotiklah (Apr 13, 2010)

I don't see a problem with a black guy being called black. I'm a white guy, and you can call me white all you want. Why? Because that's what I am!

This 'African-American' shit is a bit racist in itself because of the fact a lot of black people in this country have never even been to Africa, let alone lived there. So all a person is really doing is referring to ancestry; hence opening old wounds and reminding them of their ancestor's being taken from Africa. I believe it also ignorantly suggests that ALL black people come from Africa only, when clearly black people live all over the world. I can see how that would be offensive. Really most black dudes I know would rather be referred to as black. It has none of the "African" connotation to it and it's just simple and straight-forward. Being too careful not to offend makes it a racist issue in itself.

How about this? We shoot straight with each other, but not too bluntly, and we all try to at least tolerate each other regardless of what you look like, or where you come from. Again, it seems like the best solution to this racism shit. I don't get why people can't grasp that concept. Just because you had a bad experience or 2 with someone of a certain race/creed, or even 10 bad experiences, still doesn't mean that ALL persons of said race/creed are like that.

Example, I'm white, but does that make me a whip-lashing redneck who's rocking out with the stars and bars? Hell no! I'm a mutt of races (though mainly scottish by descent) so hating a race is a form of self-hatred for me.


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## MFB (Apr 14, 2010)

We just need to have big movement where we can call em like we see em  A black dude is ...a black dude! A retard is, you guessed it - a retard! Words are only as powerful as the history behind them in my opinion, not saying we should erase history but where we can't use "Colored" or "African American" (not sure if this is off the list, I glanced this over) anymore?  Shit's getting out of hand.


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## DavyH (Apr 14, 2010)

RenegadeDave said:


> You can't use the term "colored" or "coloured" in the US because it was a term used in the segregationist days prior to the civil rights movement.


 
Try calling a coloured individual here black, or vice versa. You'll get your arse handed to you.

Signed - mlungu (a Zulu derivative used throughout SA - whitey)


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## soliloquy (Apr 14, 2010)

what the OP said may be true, but the reverese is also true. if anyone here read edward said's work about 'the othering', its quiet scary and true. for those who dont know what 'the othering' means, then its this:

"how dare a white man write about the lives of a middle eastern when the white man knowns nothing of the middle easterns culture" 

that is true with things like aladin where its normalized to see as arabs as theives or filthy rich people who turn into snakes, or how women are either walking around naked, or are trapped in their homes and forced to wear long cloths that cover them etc etc etc...

we assume that we have the right to generalize 'their' culture, but really, since we have no knowledge, we shouldn't gneralize anyone. 




but on the other hand, i think, since the world is being more and more globalized (or westernized, depending on how you look it), it seems that our boundaries are being worth less and less each and every day. sooner or later, there would be no national identities like being american, being indian, chinese, brazillian etc. everyone will (maybe, and i hope), would become a citizen of the earth. you all have seen star-trek; imagin a world like that where blacks are treated the same as whites, where muslims are treated the same as any ohter religon, etc...

also, the thing is that racisim doesn't exist equally all over the wrold. i mean, as mentioned above, most people dont have a 'negative word' associated to them at home. its only when they enter north america where they are suddenly listed as 'chink' 'paki' 'black' 'terrorist' etc etc etc...i had this class about race and ethnicity that talked about how certain people who had been in the country for 4 of 5 generations were being labled as 'yellow' and they were like 'what the fuck does that even mean? i've been in canada for the past 150 years, and have no association with japan/china, yet i'm still being labeled as an 'outsider'. which reinstates hegemony


this is an interesting lil video. i hope you all give it a shot:


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## groph (May 14, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I find that in the UK, the only people who give a shit are the ones who are always saying "You can't say that!" or "You can't _think_ that!" - you know, the way overly politically correct ones that treat everything with hypersensitivity.
> 
> Fuck those guys.


 
Yeah. Noone's going to tell me what to think. What to say, yeah they can say that. I won't listen to them but stay the hell out of my thoughts. People should start being more politically incorrect. The world would be a happier and much funnier place.



MF_Kitten said:


> *on the flip side of this, i hate it whenever i hear black people crying racism over everything because they are expecting racism from all ends, not realizing no-one cares about their color. like when there was a meeting about the town economy somewhere in the US (i have no idea where it was), and the guy that was speaking (white guy) said "the whole economy/spending is just being sucked into a black hole". the black guy, sitting at the same table, went "a BLACK hole?!", giving him the stare of death. the white guy had a look of "oh god, here he goes again!", and jokingly said "oh, what?! okay then, a WHITE hole!". black guy was not pleased, and started ranting about racism all over the place, etc, and the other guy was all "do you not know anything about the universe? it's a term from astronomy!". apparently this didn't matter.*
> 
> *they had to issue an official apology to get him to calm down about it.*
> 
> ...


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## quasarwaves (May 15, 2010)

where I'm from no body really gives a shit. Racism is a comedy shared by all races.


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## CrushingAnvil (May 16, 2010)

Groph...

Did you just say that it's impossible for a black person to be born in Canada?


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## Murmel (May 16, 2010)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Groph...
> 
> Did you just say that it's impossible for a black person to be born in Canada?


I think what he meant was that if you call them Afro-Canadians they must have been born in Africa or somthing considering the Afro before Canadian.

Atleast I think that's what he meant


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## groph (May 16, 2010)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Groph...
> 
> Did you just say that it's impossible for a black person to be born in Canada?


 
I know this is a joke, cracka



Murmel said:


> I think what he meant was that if you call them Afro-Canadians they must have been born in Africa or somthing considering the Afro before Canadian.
> 
> Atleast I think that's what he meant


 
It's presumptuous. The phrase implies that you're assuming that the person was born in Africa yes. Maddox has a pretty good article on his site that addresses this, except he uses "African-American." He shows a picture of a black guy (pretty sure he's an actor, he looks familiar) and says "I bet this is what you'd think the moment you see this person - AFRICAN-AMERICAN LOL!" and then proceeds to explain my same point (it's where I got this from, I'll admit. It's a good argument). Obviously, noone has a problem with calling whites white, so I refuse to call a black person anything other than black (as opposed to these bullshit PC terms, I'm not saying I'd be all like, "Hey, black guy!"). Of course I'd refer to the person by their first name or Sir or Miss or You if I don't know them.


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## CrushingAnvil (May 28, 2010)

groph said:


> I know this is a joke, cracka
> 
> 
> 
> It's presumptuous. The phrase implies that you're assuming that the person was born in Africa yes. Maddox has a pretty good article on his site that addresses this, except he uses "African-American." He shows a picture of a black guy (pretty sure he's an actor, he looks familiar) and says "I bet this is what you'd think the moment you see this person - AFRICAN-AMERICAN LOL!" and then proceeds to explain my same point (it's where I got this from, I'll admit. It's a good argument). Obviously, noone has a problem with calling whites white, so I refuse to call a black person anything other than black (as opposed to these bullshit PC terms, I'm not saying I'd be all like, "Hey, black guy!"). Of course I'd refer to the person by their first name or Sir or Miss or You if I don't know them.



Yeah, I hate that. And when white people call black people honkies or crackas  Someone should invent some term that is slightly less insulting than 'Iggernay' although technically we're allowed to say 'Negro' since It's derrived from the world 'Negroloid' which is the skull type of an african person/descendent.


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## Mexi (May 31, 2010)

JaeSwift said:


> What I'm trying to say is, if everyone could just disregard history (it's history, it's in the past)



this is NOT a good approach to address racism and other current events.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 4, 2010)

soliloquy said:


> what the OP said may be true, but the reverese is also true. if anyone here read edward said's work about 'the othering', its quiet scary and true. for those who dont know what 'the othering' means, then its this:
> 
> "how dare a white man write about the lives of a middle eastern when the white man knowns nothing of the middle easterns culture"
> 
> ...




I know what you're saying, the thing is I'm not making an un-educated statement. Living in a country that's as multicultural as this and being generally interested in other cultures aswell as being ''blessed'' with the oppertunity to travel a lot a few years back (and I've seen some bad, bad places, the slums of Brazil being the worst). I'm not saying I know everything, but I like to think I educate myself on other cultures. I guess that's what happens when you have Anthropologists in your family.

Every culture has it's bad sides, really. English culture is stuck in social class system, Dutch culture is becoming more and more individualistic and egocentric, the Chinese are becoming more and more world-aware while the North Koreans are becoming more and more isolated.

In an ideal term, I see it as this; we all live on this same planet, we all look and act different. We can all achieve different goals, be they good or bad. So let's judge each other on what a person does, not what a person's skin color is. That's my idealism towards this, my belief in achieving this stems in to my 1st post; I really believe that the only way to beat this cycle is to stop assosciating mere words with such powerful hatred.


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## Joose (Jul 4, 2010)

Last Saturday - Black dude at a bar looked at my Soilwork "True Swedish Melodic Mayhem" shirt and asked what it was. I simply replied, "Just a band I really like."

His response? "Haha, man you'sa white boy, y'all ain't know what good music is get the fuck outta here!"

Honestly, I really don't see a lot of racism here in Freakville, other than the gangs. But, that shit set my mind off. I didn't say anything back because I didn't wanna start shit, but I was pissed.

I don't discriminate against anyone unless they give me reason to. My band didn't turn away our singer because he's a Cuban/Dominican who occasionally acts like he's from South Central lol.

I hate racism, I really do. Fuck this majority and minority bullshit. We're fucking humans.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 4, 2010)

I saw Whoopi Goldberg getting riled up about the use of certain words to describe black people, and how black people should be allowed to use them andno one else. While I can see what she's getting at, its bullshit. I mean when I hear rap songs dropping the N bomb left right and centre, its fucking tiresome. I mean, we've moved on a lot since then and some people have to hold onto that word like its a trophy or something. I couldn't give a shit, but I feel sometimes like white people are alienated because some black people can't drop that shit and go 'you know, its been a long time, and this white guy was probably never a slave owner, so why am I so caught up in this?'. I mean even now days it seems theres a lot of segregation between white and black people (socially I have few black friends, we all tend to hang out with people of same racial background, unintentionally mind) and I think its purely down to that elephant in the room factor, because we're afraid of saying the wrong thing and getting called racists. People forget its not the word that is offensive, its the intention behind it. I mean if I call a close black friend a ......, I would hope they'd know it would be purely a joke/friend thing, but it wouldn't be. It would be seen to be offensive even though I did not mean it that way, and that word contextually means nothing anymore unless it is given meaning. I mean, why is it people go around calling each other motherfucker, faggot and gay, all extremely offensive terms on face value (not to call someone gay, but when it is used out of context), but aren't considered so. Why can't we just not take racial slur seriously? We're capable of it, but making something serious out of an archaic word is only going to create more segregation.


By the way, its very late here and most of that post doesn't make sense to me anymore, so if anyone sees it as offensive/stupid then I apologise I have no idea what I'm talking about. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't get caught up on being so PC and we can start being loving and putting aside all this racial bullshit. Remember the past sure, but learn from it don't get consumed by it.


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## Joose (Jul 4, 2010)

^And there's the problem! Having to apologize in advance for "offending someone".

I hate that society is like that. People gettin' offended over goddamn everything. Lawsuits left and fuckin' right because of hurt feelings. Argh!


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## renzoip (Jul 5, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> Well, all countries have their specifics relating to what's perceived as offensive or not.
> The issue is only difficult becuase you have on both sides stupid extremists ready to grab at anything to make a point.



That's true. Where I come from, using the term "colored" is considered more PC. Black (or Negro, in Spanish) can be offensive or inoffensive depending on the context and the tone in which it is used. In fact, pointing out a person's skin color when making references is considered (supposedly) to be of poor taste.

However, my country is also ranked one of the most backwards countries in its region with regards to racial & ethnic relations. There, they kinda have this ideal multiracial/multicultural world where everyone has moved on from the past, and racism in just innocent humor (or so we are told). In reality, things are not like that. Contrary to what some may suggest, these kind of atmosphere has only reinforced tensions and legitimized discrimination & under representation. 

And what is most interesting, anyone who dares call out a racist is immediately counter-attacked for either having no sense of humor or for trying to play the victim in order to get something. 

Maybe people don't complain as much but it does not mean society will actually be better of.

Just my 2 cents.


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## tacotiklah (Jul 5, 2010)

I'll sum up my feelings on PC-ness by quoting a lyric from an awesome band by the name of Suicidal Tendencies:

"Im sorry I offended you, but maybe you needed to be offended.

By the way......FUUUUUCK YOUUUU!!!!"

Carry on.....


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## tacotiklah (Jul 5, 2010)

Edit: Double post


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## groph (Jul 5, 2010)

renzoip said:


> That's true. Where I come from, using the term "colored" is considered more PC. Black (or Negro, in Spanish) can be offensive or inoffensive depending on the context and the tone in which it is used. *In fact, pointing out a person's skin color when making references is considered (supposedly) to be of poor taste.*
> 
> However, my country is also ranked one of the most backwards countries in its region with regards to racial & ethnic relations. There, they kinda have this ideal multiracial/multicultural world where everyone has moved on from the past, and racism in just innocent humor (or so we are told). In reality, things are not like that. Contrary to what some may suggest, these kind of atmosphere has only reinforced tensions and legitimized discrimination & under representation.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah unless you're talking about white people.


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## R3D (Jul 5, 2010)

this reminds me of a certain KFC ad we had in australia.

it was cricket themed, this guy was sitting on the wrong side of the stadium where all the west indies are sitting in he's australian colours, they all looked at hime like gtfo this is our spot keep (not racist sports fans beeing sports fans)

BUT! he has a bucket of the colonels best fried chicken and offers them a piece (keep in mind he is white they are black), all smoothed over... they are all friends now.

harmless right? FKN WRONG! america got a whift of it and suddenly only black people in the world like fried chicken, so a white person giving a black west indies supporter a piece of fried chicken becomes the ultimate insult, all theese radio shows jabber on about how racict the ad was and how irresposible australians were to have aired the add in the first place yadda yadda yadda

what the fuck america.... its in no way shape or form racist.


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## soundgardener75 (Jul 5, 2010)

McKay said:


> Check out this South African American:



FIXED.


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## renzoip (Jul 5, 2010)

groph said:


> Yeah unless you're talking about white people.



From what I understand, one is not supposed to point out skin color, period. But yeah, the key word here is "supposed." People do it more often than not.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 6, 2010)

renzoip said:


> From what I understand, one is not supposed to point out skin color, period. But yeah, the key word here is "supposed." People do it more often than not.


 
Anyone who believes that is full of shit. I'm sorry if someone here does, but its crap. I'm white, you're black, but you know what? Who cares? I'm offendedby being called short, so don't refer to my height or I'll get upset. Its just a descriptive word. Fair enough, if its a word with racist connotations then I can understand someone not wanting to be called that, but essentially denying any kind of pigmentation is just idiotic. We're all beautiful butterflies.

*none of that anger was aimed at you fella, just incase it seemed that way*


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## groph (Jul 6, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Anyone who believes that is full of shit. I'm sorry if someone here does, but its crap. I'm white, you're black, but you know what? Who cares? I'm offendedby being called short, so don't refer to my height or I'll get upset. Its just a descriptive word. Fair enough, if its a word with racist connotations then I can understand someone not wanting to be called that, but essentially denying any kind of pigmentation is just idiotic. We're all beautiful butterflies.
> 
> *none of that anger was aimed at you fella, just incase it seemed that way*


 
Yeah, what Shorty said.

People who say "I DON'T SEE RACE LOL" obviously need corrective surgery.

We need to get used to being offended again. Really. It's not a huge deal. You think the other person is a dick for 5 minutes then you forget about them. Like today at work, I was painting some bathroom stalls that were half rusted through, and the handicapped stall was the only one that didn't need touch ups. So I hang a sign that reads "wet paint, use the handicapped stall". My coworker said that I probably shouldn't write "handicapped" because it isn't PC. I just said that I didn't care and nothing else. It's not like I wrote

WET PAINT, PLEASE USE THE STALL RESERVED FOR WORTHLESS CRIPPLES WITH NO LEGS


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 6, 2010)

I have some friends that are very racist and you know what? I don't blame them. The majority of contact they've had with ethnic minorities has been negative, you can't really blame people for having beliefs based on their experiences with race as people base their beliefs on their experiences with every other subject, this one just happens to be more taboo.

It's neither side's fault per se, it's the Government's fault for their horrible, horrible handling of immigration over the years.


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## Razzy (Jul 6, 2010)

Only mildly related, but this thread reminds me of a kid I know in high-school who had moved here from SOUTH Africa. He was a white guy, and on standardized tests, he would check "African American," in the ethnicity box. (Because it was fuck'n true!) And the teachers always threw a fit about it. I thought it was the funniest thing in the world.


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## renzoip (Jul 6, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Anyone who believes that is full of shit. I'm sorry if someone here does, but its crap. I'm white, you're black, but you know what? Who cares? I'm offendedby being called short, so don't refer to my height or I'll get upset. Its just a descriptive word. Fair enough, if its a word with racist connotations then I can understand someone not wanting to be called that, but essentially denying any kind of pigmentation is just idiotic. We're all beautiful butterflies.
> 
> *none of that anger was aimed at you fella, just incase it seemed that way*




No offense taken. 

And just to be clear, I did not say pointing out a person's skin color was racist. I only said that it is considered impolite in my country. Still, no one really cares, even if they are offending someone. As far as height goes, I understand that little people don't like to be called "midgets" as many of us usually do. 

But back to the point, I was only trying to exemplify that on the other hand, the whole idea of "nobody should care about race/feel offended" can create a situation just as bad if not worst than the one we currently have. You (not you personally) might not care but others might; you don't know anything about them. I think there needs to be a balance between respect and self confidence. Not sure how that makes one full of shit.


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## renzoip (Jul 6, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I have some friends that are very racist and you know what? I don't blame them. The majority of contact they've had with ethnic minorities has been negative, you can't really blame people for having beliefs based on their experiences with race as people base their beliefs on their experiences with every other subject, this one just happens to be more taboo.
> 
> It's neither side's fault per se, it's the Government's fault for their horrible, horrible handling of immigration over the years.



Based on that premise, then one shouldn't blame those who call out racism for anything cause they might have had negative experiences with ethnic majorities. If people are gonna blame their believes on their experiences and their governments, where is the personal responsibility then? People believe what they choose to believe based on where their interests and values are.


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## renzoip (Jul 6, 2010)

groph said:


> Yeah, what Shorty said.
> 
> People who say "I DON'T SEE RACE LOL" obviously need corrective surgery.
> 
> We need to get used to being offended again. Really. It's not a huge deal. You think the other person is a dick for 5 minutes then you forget about them.



Who are you to say that? Telling people what to and what not to feel offended about is a big judgement. To be fair, it would be great if nobody ever felt offended about anything but that is not how the real world works. Personally, when I come across something that I find offensive I choose think the person is a dick for 5 mins and then get over it, much like you suggest. But that's just me, not everyone has to be like me.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 6, 2010)

groph said:


> Yeah, what Shorty said.
> 
> People who say "I DON'T SEE RACE LOL" obviously need corrective surgery.
> 
> ...


 
I'll let you off this time...


Handicapped isn't PC?! Bullcrap. Its probably a more politically correct alternative as they go, regardless of where you live. 

And agreed, people get so butthurt nowadays. Someones gets offended and you have a courtcase. Its stupid. If its genuinely quite offensive fair enough, but if its just contextual disagreement then its silly. Anything is discrimination, I feel like giving up and just being a bastard. Don't like what I say? How about you stop changing what is socially acceptible and set clear guidelines for me to follow.



Scar Symmetry said:


> I have some friends that are very racist and you know what? I don't blame them. The majority of contact they've had with ethnic minorities has been negative, you can't really blame people for having beliefs based on their experiences with race as people base their beliefs on their experiences with every other subject, this one just happens to be more taboo.
> 
> It's neither side's fault per se, it's the Government's fault for their horrible, horrible handling of immigration over the years.


 
Yeah, its getting stupid. I feel personally along with many others that the high immigration rate to this country is meaning our own culture is getting watered down. I mean I'm all for accepting other cultures, but when you go to live in another country you must accept thinsg are different, and that things you believe in may be seen as offensive. The fact is, its not though about that we might be offended by some of the beliefs immigrants have. The government wants us to be multicultural and make people feel accepted, when really they are neglecting their own people and making too many compromises for other cultures.



renzoip said:


> No offense taken.
> 
> And just to be clear, I did not say pointing out a person's skin color was racist. I only said that it is considered impolite in my country. Still, no one really cares, even if they are offending someone. As far as height goes, I understand that little people don't like to be called "midgets" as many of us usually do.
> 
> But back to the point, I was only trying to exemplify that on the other hand, the whole idea of "nobody should care about race/feel offended" can create a situation just as bad if not worst than the one we currently have. You (not you personally) might not care but others might; you don't know anything about them. I think there needs to be a balance between respect and self confidence. Not sure how that makes one full of shit.


 
I get you man, and I was just using my height as an example. I'm 5.5, it pisses me off. I'd like to be like 6.2, would be better.

And I don't think people are saying nobody should be racialy offended at all, there has to be respect in terms of referring to another persons rae. However, its mostly the fact that people get caught up in their own racial connotations, such as the use of the word ...... which is a pretty damn old word that on one hand is really offensive, and on the other hand some black guys (particularly rappers, just sayin) just love throwing about to each other. Its like 'well we can say it but you can't because you're not black', which is fine but that is fundamentally racism in itself. You're treating someone else different because of their race, therefore perpetuating the same treatment from which you suffered and strived to defeat.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 6, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I have some friends that are very racist and you know what? I don't blame them. The majority of contact they've had with ethnic minorities has been negative, you can't really blame people for having beliefs based on their experiences with race as people base their beliefs on their experiences with every other subject, this one just happens to be more taboo.
> 
> It's neither side's fault per se, it's the Government's fault for their horrible, horrible handling of immigration over the years.



To be honest, whilst respecting your view, in my view basing someones opinion on basing his/her experience with someone of that race is wrong. Everyone is equal from the moment they are born (at the very least in Western society, I honestly feel sorry for people who don't get given the chances we are given).

Excercising prejudice based on previous experience with someone's race is as stupid as me expecting the next Metallica album to be shit because Load/Re-Load was shit (I liked Death Magnetic so dont bash me ;<_<!)

EDIT: I forgot a message: To those that say ''Those who ignore history are bound to repeat the past'', I just want to say you are wrong and are underestimating not only my intelligence (not to sound cocky, sorry if it comes off like that) but also the rest of the board. I am in no way ignoring history, I am merely saying that the words assosciated with historical racist terms should be ignored, or actually, dismantled.


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## renzoip (Jul 6, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I get you man, and I was just using my height as an example. I'm 5.5, it pisses me off. I'd like to be like 6.2, would be better.
> 
> And I don't think people are saying nobody should be racialy offended at all, there has to be respect in terms of referring to another persons rae. However, its mostly the fact that people get caught up in their own racial connotations, such as the use of the word ...... which is a pretty damn old word that on one hand is really offensive, and on the other hand some black guys (particularly rappers, just sayin) just love throwing about to each other. Its like 'well we can say it but you can't because you're not black', which is fine but that is fundamentally racism in itself. You're treating someone else different because of their race, therefore perpetuating the same treatment from which you suffered and strived to defeat.



I hear you. With regards to the use of the word ...... I agree and I don't find its use any less offensive just because rappers use it to refer to each other. The other day I pointed out to group of classmates by comparing it to the use of the word "Spic." You don't see Latinos pridefully calling each other that because the word is offensive regardless of where it is coming from.


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## renzoip (Jul 6, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Yeah, its getting stupid. I feel personally along with many others that the high immigration rate to this country is meaning our own culture is getting watered down. I mean I'm all for accepting other cultures, but when you go to live in another country you must accept thinsg are different, and that things you believe in may be seen as offensive. The fact is, its not though about that we might be offended by some of the beliefs immigrants have. The government wants us to be multicultural and make people feel accepted, when really they are neglecting their own people and making too many compromises for other cultures.




With regards to immigration, I remember my country also has had a big dilemma like that with the large amounts of east asian (mainly japanese) immigrants that came during the last century. However, I personally think that culture is not one permanent unchanging thing. I think culture changes and evolves as times goes by and it gets affected by different factors (One being immigration but also economy, changes in climate, modes of production, technological advances, politics). I'm not so into culture or national identity because like most things on this world, they aren't eternal.


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## tacotiklah (Jul 7, 2010)

Well the only time I actually recognize race is when I'm describing a person. However I judge by one's actions and not by the color of their skin. Everybody starts with a clean slate in my book. Most fuck it up by being idiots, but I at least gave 'em a chance.


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## groph (Jul 7, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I have some friends that are very racist and you know what? I don't blame them. The majority of contact they've had with ethnic minorities has been negative, you can't really blame people for having beliefs based on their experiences with race as people base their beliefs on their experiences with every other subject, this one just happens to be more taboo.
> 
> It's neither side's fault per se, it's the Government's fault for their horrible, horrible handling of immigration over the years.


 

Your friends are only racist if they think that these people (oh no I said "these people") are inferior due to their race. Semantics, I know. Your friends are acting on stereotypes. Still, it's maddening to hear that a certain ethnic group is causing a community or a country a whole slew of problems and people are crying racism when action is taken against the offending ethnic group, or at least the offending members of it. What other logical solutions do these people (the ones who cry racism) propose?

Society does nothing to help the situation. If the media never existed I would never have learned that I am supposed to be afraid and generally distrustful of blacks. I'm not, but whenever I see one who fits the stereotype, my first thought is to get the hell out of his way, I won't lie. He might be the coolest person on the planet. But, like Scar said, at least similar to what he said, it isn't really either party's fault per se.
My family was friends with a black family whose father spent some time in jail. I remember my mother jokingly referring to him to me in private, calling him a jailbird and I think I remember her saying something about that being a black stereotype. She wasn't trying to REALLY suggest that we were better because we were white. I was only young. But I still remember that family, because it was my first experience with people of a different skin color (co-incidentally it was also my first experience being chased down the stairs by a little kid holding a knife, that dude was crazy).

My point is, I didn't think of that family as lesser beings because their skin was a different color than mine was. I was really young and curious, I wondered why their palms were white but didn't ask, frankly they were just people who happened to be brown. Then I go to school, and learn about segregation, slavery, and the actual racism that blacks experienced, (which is good, everyone should know that), and then I start getting all these preconceptions about blacks from various media sources. If I ever have kids, I won't ever bring up stereotypes pertaining to race. If I see a black gangster walking around and then a white gangster, I'll tell my children that those two people are equally worthless because of what they do to honest people.

Funny, today at work I was sitting in the lunch room looking out the door. I saw a man who was mostly obscured; all I could see was his calf. I was all like, "Man, that guy has a ridiculous tan --- Oh shit that's a black guy!" That's how rarely I see black people around here, in a museum which is visited mostly by white men who are aged 60+. It's not like I ran out screaming, "HEY N***ER! I HAVE A TREE OUT FRONT WITH YOUR NAME ON IT!" I just see maybe three black people a month on the months that I'm not in school. When I am in school, I kick it with a black woman with children, a Middle Eastern girl a middle aged Italian guy, and a bunch of lesbians. A very PC group of friends indeed. They're all great. The black woman is actually from Africa, too, I think Nigeria. Her accent is awesome.

My main, overriding point is that being surprised at seeing a seeing a "person of color" doesn't make you a racist, and that the media kind of makes you a subconcsious bigot. It's up to you to use logic and reasoning to deduce that racism makes no sense, and the media understands how you think.


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## groph (Jul 7, 2010)

renzoip said:


> Who are you to say that? Telling people what to and what not to feel offended about is a big judgement. To be fair, it would be great if nobody ever felt offended about anything but that is not how the real world works. Personally, when I come across something that I find offensive I choose think the person is a dick for 5 mins and then get over it, much like you suggest. But that's just me, not everyone has to be like me.


 

Who am I to say what? That "race-blind" people need corrective surgery? That was just a terrible joke, I meant that they literally need Lasik or something because if they can't tell the physical difference between Yao and Shaq there is something wrong with their eyes.

I didn't mean to tell people what to and what not to feel offended by, I was just saying that being offended isn't a big deal, and it's not. It's a brief feeling of discomfort in one person brought on by something someone else did or said that doesn't mean a thing in the big picture. People just get too worked up, and they write a disgruntled letter to the Editor thinking that their opinion is really important.

I don't want to start up an argument here since I basically agree with you. If noone was ever offended and we all lived in some perfect world where nobody ever felt anything negative, I guess that'd be lovely. But you hit the nail on the head, the world isn't like that. Shit is going to rub you the wrong way. Now I take this further by saying that shit is going to rub you the wrong way, and noone cares. You think that offensive people are dicks, you've probably offended people and people have thought that you were a dick, that's how it should be, and I think everyone should be like that. I mean now we're in some ridiculous state where we can't say certain things (freedom of speech? And yes I advocate people who want to stand in their lawn yelling FUCK! at small children all day, or somebody who wants to put up a banner with every racial slur in the book. Should these people be approved of? No, but they can say what they want) and saying certain things have actual consequences because everyone is so caught up in not offending people, you can lose your job, for example. It's almost like society is assuming everyone is too dumb to think critically so they step in and act like everyone's parent. I guess I'm kind of dreaming up another dream world where everybody has a functioning brain and knows that when they see something they interpret as distasteful, they know they can be as offended as they want to be, but they can appreciate freedom of speech, and know that whoever is responsible for the offense is probably a bigot or a racist, and not cause a huge stink about it.


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## CrushingAnvil (Jul 8, 2010)

JaeSwift said:


> To be honest, whilst respecting your view, in my view basing someones opinion on basing his/her experience with someone of that race is wrong. Everyone is equal from the moment they are born (at the very least in Western society, I honestly feel sorry for people who don't get given the chances we are given).
> 
> Excercising prejudice based on previous experience with someone's race is as stupid as me expecting the next Metallica album to be shit because Load/Re-Load was shit (I liked Death Magnetic so dont bash me ;<_<!)
> 
> EDIT: I forgot a message: To those that say ''Those who ignore history are bound to repeat the past'', I just want to say you are wrong and are underestimating not only my intelligence (not to sound cocky, sorry if it comes off like that) but also the rest of the board. I am in no way ignoring history, I am merely saying that the words assosciated with historical racist terms should be ignored, or actually, dismantled.



Facepalm

He meant, If practically your ONLY experience with an ethnicity is negative, you're going to expect the people you meet from that minority to be cunts subconciously.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

umm... we don't use the word "colored" anymore, homie. the word "poof" is a term for homosexuals in UK... here it's just what you say when you perform a magic trick involving smoke. 

furthermore... if not race ppl will find something else to be offended by. why don't you lead by example and not make threads like this that will inevitably start some ridiculous philosophical argument and inevitably end in a flame war... 

you know... "stop givin' a fuck"

the first step would be to not bring it up all the damn time.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

JaeSwift said:


> I know, and I anticipated this reply the moment I posted, I was just a little too lazy to edit ;<_<
> 
> I realise there are different histories, different means of conversation and different cultures etc. (I study Communication Management and have a degree in Social Work so I know all about this). I'm also not saying that I would deliberatly call people out by their skin colour just to prove a point.
> 
> ...


 
The way we interpret words is partially a result of how we were raised. I was raised by parents who grew up during the civil rights movement... Some things rub off and it's hard to shake. Your insensitivity doesn't make anything easier. Especially when you're dealing w/ someone who feels strongly about that sort of thing.

There was a long time in history when blacks were viewed as less than human in America. Certain terminology reminds us of that and in some cases can be an implication that the person using said terminology does, in fact, feel that way. Some of us choose to ignore it. Others choose to let you know that that sort of talk won't be tolerated.

I've had "religious" folks ask me not to uses certain words because what I have to say doesn't align w/ THEIR beliefs... I don't really get it, but for the sake of my sanity, I let it go and tread lightly around those that I know are likely to flip out over that sort of thing.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 8, 2010)

JaeSwift said:


> To be honest, whilst respecting your view, in my view basing someones opinion on basing his/her experience with someone of that race is wrong. Everyone is equal from the moment they are born (at the very least in Western society, I honestly feel sorry for people who don't get given the chances we are given).
> 
> Excercising prejudice based on previous experience with someone's race is as stupid as me expecting the next Metallica album to be shit because Load/Re-Load was shit (I liked Death Magnetic so dont bash me ;<_<!)
> 
> EDIT: I forgot a message: To those that say ''Those who ignore history are bound to repeat the past'', I just want to say you are wrong and are underestimating not only my intelligence (not to sound cocky, sorry if it comes off like that) but also the rest of the board. I am in no way ignoring history, I am merely saying that the words assosciated with historical racist terms should be ignored, or actually, dismantled.



If you've come into contact with 999 people from a specific group that have been hostile or rude to you and then come into contact with 1 person from a specific group who has been kind or pleasant to you, you will think ill of that group.

It's not a character fault, we all do it, we all judge books by their covers. It's only when we get to know a person that we realise our preconceptions are wrong.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> If you've come into contact with 999 people from a specific group that have been hostile or rude to you and then come into contact with 1 person from a specific group who has been kind or pleasant to you, you will think ill of that group.
> 
> It's not a character fault, we all do it, we all judge books by their covers. It's only when we get to know a person that we realise our preconceptions are wrong.


 
Prejudices exist... And as you said it's human nature. But there's a fine line between being cautious and being a douchebag.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 8, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Prejudices exist... And as you said it's human nature. But there's a fine line between being cautious and being a douchebag.



I think most of my racist friends make it out that they're more racist than they are or indeed make it up altogether, I don't think deep down that they are racist in the true sense of the word, they just don't show any evidence to the contrary other than the fact that they generally aren't stupid.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jul 8, 2010)

I always thought that compulsive and obsessive "battling" against racism did nothing more than keep it alive and in people's minds. I always thought it was a lot better to just, as the OP puts it, stop giving a shit. You don't have to forget history, you don't have to deny it was once unfortunately a powerful force in our world; That doesn't mean one needs to come up with 1,000,001st anti racism slogan which unintentionally or not is turning into nothing more than propaganda spawned from superiority complexes in minorities anyway. Some of this shit goes way too far; feminism is even worse (around here at least).


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I think most of my racist friends make it out that they're more racist than they are or indeed make it up altogether, I don't think deep down that they are racist in the true sense of the word, they just don't show any evidence to the contrary other than the fact that they generally aren't stupid.


 
I've only met a few ppl I'd consider really racist. A lot of ppl just harbor uneducated prejudices and I find it annoying (mainly because black ppl have been in this country for quite some time and a lot of ppl still act as if they've never even seen one that wasn't a rapper--to include jesse jackson, al sharpton or obama--who some seem to try to pass off as a "rare" one) . True racism makes me think I may need to defend myself...


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> I always thought that compulsive and obsessive "battling" against racism did nothing more than keep it alive and in people's minds.


 
This... 

I feel like this thread is counterproductive to its alleged goal...


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## renzoip (Jul 8, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> If you've come into contact with 999 people from a specific group that have been hostile or rude to you and then come into contact with 1 person from a specific group who has been kind or pleasant to you, you will think ill of that group.
> 
> It's not a character fault, we all do it, we all judge books by their covers. It's only when we get to know a person that we realise our preconceptions are wrong.




But what if you come on contact with 999 rude people form your own group? People come across hostility from their own ethnic/racial groups a lot. However, most will not create negative prejudices because they don't see these rudeness as a defect of the whole group regardless of how many times it happens. 

Like they say, being mad at the right person at the right time and for the right reason is actually difficult.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 8, 2010)

renzoip said:


> But what if you come on contact with 999 rude people form your own group? People come across hostility from their own ethnic/racial groups a lot. However, most will not negative prejudices because they don't see these rudeness as a defect of the whole group regardless of how many times it happens.
> 
> Like they say, being mad at the right person at the right time and for the right reason is actually difficult.



A very, very, very unlikely situation so I can't really take it seriously, sorry.

All I'm saying is that I can understand on both sides why some people feel like they are cornered by the issue.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> A very, very, very unlikely situation so I can't really take it seriously, sorry.
> 
> All I'm saying is that I can understand on both sides why some people feel like they are cornered by the issue.


 
The amount of crimes minority groups commit against their own ppl is ridiculous in some places... For instance the ever so cliche "black on black" crime. 

That shit is pretty damn abundant... However, in my area, two black strangers are far more likely to say hello to each other walking down the street than a black person and a white person. I actually thought about this the other day and found it quite odd.

That having been said, I think the ppl that are rudest to me are black ppl. For those of you who don't know I too sport a year round tan. There's a lot of strange internal bickering within the race about being "too white" or "too niggerish"... 

I can completely see what renzo is saying...

Likewise... I have a friend and whenever he tells me a story about a person of a different race who has been discourteous to him he always makes sure to mention the race and there's always this negative tone in his voice when he says whatever race the person happens to be... However, when describing someone of his OWN race who pisses him off he doesn't mention their race, which is usually how I know what race they are.

Perhaps you dont think that way which is a good thing, but it does happen.


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## matt397 (Jul 9, 2010)

I jsut thought I 'd throw this out there, Im not a racist. honestly. I just can not stand the human race in general. people for the most part make me sick. I hear more an more everyday about pedophiles, rapists, murders an thieves. I fear for my childrens future the more I get to know the human race.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 9, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> This...
> 
> I feel like this thread is counterproductive to its alleged goal...


 
I don't think so. This thread has highlighted some very important issues behind racism. Often conversations about racism focus on what is being said and how to make people happy, often missing important points such as why is that racism occurring, and the compromises that are made in favour of races which can neglect others. I think those points are important and I've read some interesting stuff in this thread.


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## kung_fu (Jul 9, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I'm 5.5



Me too. I haven't seen you at any of the short-supremacy meetings though .


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 9, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't think so. This thread has highlighted some very important issues behind racism. Often conversations about racism focus on what is being said and how to make people happy, often missing important points such as why is that racism occurring, and the compromises that are made in favour of races which can neglect others. I think those points are important and I've read some interesting stuff in this thread.


 
I guess... 

Race issues aren't interesting in the slightest to me anymore. Simply put... I'm tired of being referred to in terms of my race because when I am it's always said as if I'm judged on a lesser scale...

Real quotes:

"You're pretty cute for a black guy..."
"Damn you do that well for a black guy..."
Several English teachers I've had: "Why do you know grammar so well?" --I was no better than my white peers

Also... I was given an award at my highschool--The Panhellenic Black Scholar Award--for being black and having above a 3.0. Really? FUCK YOU. I want to be treated like I'm exceptional for BEING exceptional, not for being just like everyone else and black.

How is it that my skin color is supposed to dictate so much? 

If computer A performs better than computer B $100 says it has nothing to do w/ what color plastic the shell is made of... 

This is why *I* get irritated when ppl refer to me by race. Plus, it's a superfluous detail anyway unless it's the easiest way to identify me. For example... If I happen to literally be the only black guy in an entire room and someone is looking for me and another persons says... "It's the black guy." Whatever... that was the quickest way to communicate who I am. And I'm sure there are many other cases like this in which I wouldn't get upset I just can't think of them at the moment.


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## orb451 (Jul 9, 2010)

I think the problem is stereotypes KJ. A lot of people subscribe to them, either consciously or subconsciously. And I think a lot of that goes back to the environment you're in. What I mean by that is, clearly some of the people you've run across have been "used to" or "brought up to believe" or "encountered personally" *some* Black folks that fit neatly into whatever preconceived container they had in mind.

Whereas you come along and aren't what *they* had in mind. And it throws them for a loop. Imagine the people that look at someone like Drak, a Black guy, who's into metal, plays metal, plays it well, is gay and is a satanist. For idiots like the ones you've encountered, imagine their heads spontaneously bursting trying to take all that in at once. 

I think we had this conversation a long time ago in an affirmative action thread, people *should* be judged by what they do and how they do it, not by what *society* or *minority/majority* "thinks" they should do, or expects them to do. 

On the flip side though, there's an unfortunate subculture in the Black community (and other communities as well) that, from the outside, seems to worship and fall all over themselves acting like ignoramuses.  School? Fuck it. Work? Fuck it. Family? Fuck it. Life? Fuck it. No hope, no future, no goals, nothing. When you go out of your way to refer to yourself using racial epithets on a regular basis, again, in a small part of the community, and you do it loudly, people are going to believe that that's what *you* believe. That is to say, if you act like an asshole (or N-word or whatever slur du jour), then people are *probably* going to look at you that way and most certainly treat you that way.

And the you I'm referring to is most definitely NOT YOU PERSONALLY KJ, but I hope I'm getting my point across. The more people self-segregate in an effort to "be themselves" or "stick with their own", the more walls get built up mentally and the easier it is to start subscribing to stereotypes. Personally I find most of them, across the board, downright amusing. But that's me.


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## renzoip (Jul 9, 2010)

Not trying to be offensive, just thought it related to the topic.



The same principle could be applied to all races.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 9, 2010)

renzoip said:


> Not trying to be offensive, just thought it related to the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> The same principle could be applied to all races.




It very well can be. It just seems that the "....." side of my culture is the one most prominent in the media and I think it's sad... Then again, I can't *completely* be upset with other cultures for viewing us a certain way. 

The Ying Yang Twins (They can't even spell... Or maybe they just pronounce it that way. At any rate, they're ignorance incarnate...) Flava Flav... Al Sharpton... I think you get the point...


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## renzoip (Jul 9, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> It very well can be. It just seems that the "....." side of my culture is the one most prominent in the media and I think it's sad... Then again, I can't *completely* be upset with other cultures for viewing us a certain way.
> 
> The Ying Yang Twins (They can't even spell... Or maybe they just pronounce it that way. At any rate, they're ignorance incarnate...) Flava Flav... Al Sharpton... I think you get the point...




The bad side of every culture will more often than not be the one he media wants to exploit. IMO is because stereotypes sell and give higher ratings. The media also often stereotypes my culture (or lack of culture for that matter) but it hardly gets to me. I think the important thing is not being the stereotype; not because of what others may think but because one should be confident of his/her own capacity to be better.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 9, 2010)

renzoip said:


> The bad side of every culture will more often than not be the one he media wants to exploit. IMO is because stereotypes sell and give higher ratings. The media also often stereotypes my culture (or lack of culture for that matter) but it hardly gets to me. I think the important thing is not being the stereotype; not because of what others may think but because one should be confident of his/her own capacity to be better.



Word


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## BenInKY (Jul 16, 2010)

What is commonly called racism is really a distaste for the cultural behaviors of the majority of people of that skin color. If you want to avoid being called racist just say things like:

"I hate it when people purposefully choose to speak English with uncommon, silly dialects and pronunciations, instead of attempting to communicate effectively. Intentionally making yourself hard to understand is your own fault. You have television. I'm sure you watch plenty of it. Learn to speak like the people on TV and the rest of the world won't automatically assume you're a moron the moment you open your mouth."


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## Randy (Jul 16, 2010)

^


Very well said.


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## Joose (Jul 24, 2010)

BenInKY said:


> What is commonly called racism is really a distaste for the cultural behaviors of the majority of people of that skin color. If you want to avoid being called racist just say things like:
> 
> "I hate it when people purposefully choose to speak English with uncommon, silly dialects and pronunciations, instead of attempting to communicate effectively. Intentionally making yourself hard to understand is your own fault. You have television. I'm sure you watch plenty of it. Learn to speak like the people on TV and the rest of the world won't automatically assume you're a moron the moment you open your mouth."



Win.


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## 777timesgod (Jul 25, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> The Ying Yang Twins (They can't even spell... Or maybe they just pronounce it that way. At any rate, they're ignorance incarnate...) Flava Flav... Al Sharpton... I think you get the point...



Flava Flav is ignorant?! Ok mister you are getting *clocked*!


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## IDLE (Jul 26, 2010)

It might be racist, but my mama told me "Son, never trust whitey." and you know what? She hasn't been wrong.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

To understand what is going on here, you have to see it through the eyes of someone on the other end.

using the words "colored" "negro" and the like are fine in their original meaning, but the terms were bastardized to a high degree.

it wasn't like "oh, he's colored, his skin is a dark brown" it's "Get that colored boy away from these perfectly fine children" referring to white kids.

Black people always make a big deal out of race, yes, and i wish they wouldn't, but thinking about it, look at why we call each other "......" "....." or whatever, outside of context and refer to it as a general term.

and there's more to it than just "it's ok for us to say it because that's what they called us"

it's a part of taking the sting out of oppression of the past at its base, though kids nowadays probably don't realize it and just think it's cool to do so. we were called niggers all day long and every day IN PUBLIC as recently as the fifties (yes, that recently) and it was meant to literally demean and debase us, because we used to be called "......" when we were slaves, treated as cattle, and it's pretty much passed down that the general understanding was the term was an address to us like we were subhumans.

now,in the US, race will be an issue because unfortunately, the time of color segregation and extreme prejudice is still only 1-2 generations away for most. that's your parents. or grandparents.

honestly the best way to SOLVE racism is to stop addressing people as "black" or "white" or "colored", but in america, we have to class everything. race just works, unfortunately.

and yes, the race card will be employed because now the powers that be feel guilty. honestly, why not use a situation to your advantage?

is it fair? no, not at all. is it smart? insanely, when you think about it.

and for the record, I'm REALLY uncomfortable about that term, and I'll joke around and go "niggaplease" or stuff like that, but in general, I feel like Even black people shouldn't use the term. it's extremely antquated and extremely hurtful, even if you arenlt using it to do so.


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