# Should I go multiscale?



## icipher (Aug 15, 2016)

Hello,

Thinking of ordering a new kiesel DC600 or DCM6 multiscale.

I am going to have the guitar tuned to drop A#, at a 25.5 scale length. I have a few questions though as I've never played a multiscale.

1. Do people find the multiscale bridge slant hard to adjust to? Is the tone any different with the bridge being further back from the pickup?
2. will normal D'addario strings, say a 62 gauge pack, work fine on a multi or would i need custom strings?
3. for the $300 dollar difference in price between the DC600 or the DCM6, is it worth it for the multiscale on the DCM6?
4. any other things to take into consideration?


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## bostjan (Aug 15, 2016)

icipher said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thinking of ordering a new kiesel DC600 or DCM6 multiscale.
> 
> ...



Some do, some don't. Personally, it took me literally a few minutes to get comfortable. The tone with a non-slant pickup will be different from the tone with a slant pickup for sure. Whether you will notice it or like it is not something I can predict. I prefer a slanted pickup.



icipher said:


> 2. will normal D'addario strings, say a 62 gauge pack, work fine on a multi or would i need custom strings?



A pack will work about as well as it ever did. There will be more tension wherever the scale length is longer, but it's not really a night-and-day difference. You might want to go with individual strings in either case.



icipher said:


> 3. for the $300 dollar difference in price between the DC600 or the DCM6, is it worth it for the multiscale on the DCM6?



For some people it is worth it. For others it is not. For me, personally, I would go for a multiscale, but I don't play six string guitars really, anymore. I love having whatever extra tension I can get on the low B, and I'm not a "fan" (pardon the pun) of super high tension on the treble side. I always used hybrid string sets with less tension on the plain strings, ever since I started buying my own strings, so something about multiscale clicked with me right away. It all boils down to personal preference, though. Some guys don't even like the tone of the clearer harmonics and snappier brightness of longer scale lengths at all.



icipher said:


> 4. any other things to take into consideration?



If you could try out a multiscale guitar before buying it, I would highly recommend doing so, and then giving it at least 30 minutes of playing before deciding yes or no. I have always been attracted to baritone scale lengths moreso than standard, and I consider myself an early adopter of multiscale, so my opinion is biased that way.

On that note, if you have not tried one, don't put too much into people telling you to get one or not to get one based off their own personal preferences, particularly when they themselves haven't even tried one before. Just try it out and then see if you like it or not. If you try an Ibanez RGIF, then keep in mind that the spec choices are a little silly (as far as perpendicular fret and scale lengths), but I think it'd still give you a general idea.


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## icipher (Aug 15, 2016)

bostjan said:


> Some do, some don't. Personally, it took me literally a few minutes to get comfortable. The tone with a non-slant pickup will be different from the tone with a slant pickup for sure. Whether you will notice it or like it is not something I can predict. I prefer a slanted pickup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for such a thorough response.

Would love to hear anyone else's experiences.


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## bloc (Aug 15, 2016)

I got my first multiscale guitar in the beginning of the year (it's an Ormsby GTR) and honestly it took like zero time to adjust. I could play the guitar as well as any other guitar I owned and it did not feel different at all.


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## bzhan1 (Aug 15, 2016)

$300 extra? Not worth it imo

It's mostly a visual gimmick, most string tension issues are corrected with proper strings. For A# just use a heavy bottom 7 string pack minus the top string or a baritone set.

If multiscale is really that much better, more pro guitarists would be using it.

Also pickup upgrades are a pain


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 16, 2016)

bzhan1 said:


> If multiscale is really that much better, more pro guitarists would be using it.



Thats a terrible way to look at gear since most pro musicians only use gear they get out of endorsements or for free to promote a brand. Most LACS artists I've talked to say they don't particularly even like playing Ibanez and I've lost count how many guitarists I've talked to who say they absolutly hate their live rig but the company set them up with everything they needed.



icipher said:


> 1. Do people find the multiscale bridge slant hard to adjust to? Is the tone any different with the bridge being further back from the pickup?



It depends on the angle of the bridge but I find my hand moves diagonally across the strings anyway which lines up with the bridge angle on my guitars.

Yes it makes quite a difference, the closer to the bridge the tighter it will be, move it away and more bass will creep into the signal. switch back and forth between the bridge and neck and you'll get an idea of the difference. 



icipher said:


> 4. any other things to take into consideration?



You need to like the scale lengths. The Kiesel 6 is 25.5-26.5" so you need to like how a 26.5" feels when playing. On the 7 the lowest is 27" which I find uncomfortable.


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## gujukal (Aug 16, 2016)

bzhan1 said:


> $300 extra? Not worth it imo
> 
> It's mostly a visual gimmick, most string tension issues are corrected with proper strings. For A# just use a heavy bottom 7 string pack minus the top string or a baritone set.
> 
> ...



For a 6-string i agree, but with a 7 or 8 with long scale length, multi scale helps a lot. 

"More pro guitarists would be using it", that's just a dumb argument. Most big brands that endorses "pro" guitarists haven't really started to produce them yet. It would also be a big adjustment for someone who has been playing a regular guitar his whole life.

To help the thread creator, i would not bother with multi scale on a 6-string, it's just not worth it. It takes tiem to adjust depending on your playing style, if you play a lot of chords and more rhythm in general their won't be much of an adjustment time. For lead playing it can be, especially on the higher frets.


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## jsmalleus (Aug 16, 2016)

If you can try one that would be optimal, but if not, I think whether you like it will depend a lot on your playing style and the fan layout.

I picked up a multiscale 7 out of curiosity a while back and it looks great and sounds great, but just doesn't fit my usual playing style. I play mostly rhythm but tend to jump around the neck a good bit and it was all bueno until I went to do octaves, etc. further up the neck & my fingers were crammed up all weird. I still have it and pick it up sometimes to noodle around and play stuff outside my usual wheelhouse, but for my usual jammage & band stuff I prefer a regular guitar. I'd be disappointed if I had picked it up with the intention of it being my new main axe.

Seems like a lot of the fans are laid out somewhat differently depending on the builder and model too, so if you do go for it, try to aim for a layout that seems like it will suit your playing style.


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## icipher (Aug 16, 2016)

jsmalleus said:


> If you can try one that would be optimal, but if not, I think whether you like it will depend a lot on your playing style and the fan layout.
> 
> I picked up a multiscale 7 out of curiosity a while back and it looks great and sounds great, but just doesn't fit my usual playing style. I play mostly rhythm but tend to jump around the neck a good bit and it was all bueno until I went to do octaves, etc. further up the neck & my fingers were crammed up all weird. I still have it and pick it up sometimes to noodle around and play stuff outside my usual wheelhouse, but for my usual jammage & band stuff I prefer a regular guitar. I'd be disappointed if I had picked it up with the intention of it being my new main axe.
> 
> Seems like a lot of the fans are laid out somewhat differently depending on the builder and model too, so if you do go for it, try to aim for a layout that seems like it will suit your playing style.



I am still confused what the point of fanning the frets is. I understand the bridge placement of course, which is to give a longer scale for the lower strings.


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## P-Ride (Aug 16, 2016)

icipher said:


> I am still confused what the point of fanning the frets is. I understand the bridge placement of course, which is to give a longer scale for the lower strings.



Well, surely the fanning is to facilitate the longer scale length of the lower strings, while keeping each fret at the same point, relatively speaking?

The bass strings are longer and treble strings are shorter, to achieve what many would perceive as the 'optimum' length for each string.

Then pick a 'zero point' (where the fret is @ 90 degrees to the neck) and then each direction moving outwards, the frets will be at an increasing angle, in order to be be at the same point proportionately on each of the strings.

The fanning is what achieves this.

I've never touched a multiscale, but this is how I understand the science - and it seems to make a lot of sense.


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## Promit (Aug 16, 2016)

You've gotta try it for yourself, honestly. I had an Agile multiscale and found it wasn't comfortable to play chords, my wrist wound up twisted in awkward ways. The tension benefits weren't really worth it. I also had trouble finding pickups that would work in that guitar - not such a big deal on a Kiesel but a real problem on an Agile.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 16, 2016)

ive not played a multiscale either, but was wondering how much of a difference it would make tuning to e standard on a 6 string


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## icipher (Aug 16, 2016)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ive not played a multiscale either, but was wondering how much of a difference it would make tuning to e standard on a 6 string



Pretty sure the whole point of multiscale is to help with low tunings and keeping tension correct. seems pointless on a stardard tuned guitar or really anything not tuned lower than C or B.


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## russmuller (Aug 16, 2016)

I'd recommend taking the plunge. I LOVE it.


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## noUser01 (Aug 16, 2016)

My only issue with multiscale guitars: sweeps.

Otherwise, I really dig them, for all the reasons you hear about them being so awesome.


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## jsmalleus (Aug 17, 2016)

P-ride is pretty spot on. The fan is to facilitate the longer scale on the top strings & keep the intonation intact. It's often touted as being more ergonomic too, but that definitely depends what you're playing. There are different fan layouts too from what I understand (for example parallel fret at 9th or 12th fret), but I'm not sure if that is builder dependent or due to different scales or something like that.

I tend to use the hybrid string sets (light/heavy) so I figured it was worth a shot. Just isn't for me. You could always get a 26.5" or 27" scale 6 string and a hybrid string set. I do that for a few songs I have in drop A# and it works great. But don't let any of us scare ya away from what you want to do, you might be one of the folks that loves the fanned frets.

If you're going kiesel and don't get to try one out before you order though I'd recommend not to option .50 the guitar in case you don't like the multiscale, that way you can still return it & get another one without the fan.


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## icipher (Aug 17, 2016)

jsmalleus said:


> P-ride is pretty spot on. The fan is to facilitate the longer scale on the top strings & keep the intonation intact. It's often touted as being more ergonomic too, but that definitely depends what you're playing. There are different fan layouts too from what I understand (for example parallel fret at 9th or 12th fret), but I'm not sure if that is builder dependent or due to different scales or something like that.
> 
> I tend to use the hybrid string sets (light/heavy) so I figured it was worth a shot. Just isn't for me. You could always get a 26.5" or 27" scale 6 string and a hybrid string set. I do that for a few songs I have in drop A# and it works great. But don't let any of us scare ya away from what you want to do, you might be one of the folks that loves the fanned frets.
> 
> *If you're going kiesel and don't get to try one out before you order though I'd recommend not to option .50 the guitar in case you don't like the multiscale, that way you can still return it & get another one without the fan*.



Sorry i don't understand what you mean when you say "I'd recommend not to option .50 the guitar", can you explain what you mean by that?


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## schwiz (Aug 17, 2016)

OP, I just bought a lefty Kiesel AM7 and I love it. Its going to be hard for me to go back to standard scale. As long as you aren't a huge floyd fan, a multi-scale is a great choice.

Also, I'm from MN as well.


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## icipher (Aug 17, 2016)

schwiz said:


> OP, I just bought a lefty Kiesel AM7 and I love it. Its going to be hard for me to go back to standard scale. As long as you aren't a huge floyd fan, a multi-scale is a great choice.
> 
> Also, I'm from MN as well.



NICE! I live about 10 minutes from burnsville, small world! Oh, and for the record, I definitely am not a floyd fan.


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## russmuller (Aug 17, 2016)

icipher said:


> Sorry i don't understand what you mean when you say "I'd recommend not to option .50 the guitar", can you explain what you mean by that?



Option 50 is what Kiesel categorizes all non-catalog/builder custom options. So like if you want a custom finish, or you don't want a bevel, etc... that gets listed on your order with the code "Option 50." It basically negates the return policy, so if you want to have the safety net of being able to return the guitar, don't go crazy with non-standard options.


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## Psionic (Aug 17, 2016)

i got my first multiscale like 2 weeks ago and im happy with it.
One of the guys writing multiscale would be bs because you can just use thicker strings probably dosent even play guitar....
I had a esp eclipse tuned down to drop b with pretty thick string to get some tension on it and the sound and the intonation was just awful.

i would say go for it as long as the fan isnt a 2 inch difference it shouldnt be a noticable difference. And make sure you get it with nice pickups because changing them would be pretty cost intense.


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## laxu (Aug 17, 2016)

Multiscale isn't all that necessary for 6-strings but for 7+ strings definitely. It really helps those lowest strings feel good and sound good without messing with the sound and feel of the "normal" strings. I find just putting on thicker strings doesn't negate the issues on the extra strings on standard scale guitars.

It took me absolutely no time to get used to playing it and switching between my Kiesel AM7 and regular scale guitars is no problem.

The only minuses I can think of are extra cost and more expensive to get replacement pickups if needed. The reason why "more pros don't play them" is because they haven't been available except from a few custom manufacturers in the past. It's only in the last few years that we have actually seen less expensive models available.


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## schwiz (Aug 17, 2016)

Yep. You're pretty much stuck with the pickups unless you get a custom set made to exact specifications. With that said, I do like the Kiesel Lithium pickups... I like the Bareknuckle Aftermath better, but I like the Lithiums better than any EMG or active pickup.


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2016)

BKP used to at least be willing to rewind a supplied multiscale pickup into something voiced like theirs. Since they've gotten bigger, I'm not so sure they still do, but it could be worth asking Tim if you are considering swapping your slanted pickups for something else.

Frankly, if the industry semi-standardized angled pickups, it'd open some doors up for pickup swaps eventually, but I don't see such a thing happening too soon. *If* (big fat if, there) a FF production model takes off, like an Ibanez or a Jackson or even Agile, there might become a de facto standard angle (kind of how F spaced pickups became a standard simply by market saturation), and then other suppliers will start following suit for economic reasons (for example, if there are cheap mulitscale guitars from 2+ brands with pickups from the same factory).

TL;DR - The pickup issue is not insurmountable, just a major pain.


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## A-Branger (Aug 17, 2016)

I have tried the Ormsby GTRs at a shop and it took me no time at all to get used to it. And mind you they have one of the biggest fan at 25.5" - 27.5" for 6 string and 25.5" - 27.8" for sevens. It might take bit of time for a fast shredder especially on the higher frets, but the rest, I felt pretty fine. It was weird to look at, and it trow me off looking at it, but not hard to adjust at all

Another reason some people say for the multiscale is that its eassier on your wrist, as the fan should follow the antural movement of your wrist. As an example take a bar chord where you first finger lays flat across all the strings on the same fret. Now picture the same chord on a multiscale, it would be far easier as the wrist break angle is less.



M3CHK1LLA said:


> ive not played a multiscale either, but was wondering how much of a difference it would make tuning to e standard on a 6 string



All the ones I played were in standard tuning. No problem with them. Due to the increased scale length they use 9's (not sure if the low string is lighter than a normal 9 set), but the low strings had a pretty awesome tension Ive never felt before. Also on a 7 the low B felt great, as opposed to the "floppy" string I felt on some LTD/jackson/ibanez I tried on other store the day before



bostjan said:


> Frankly, if the industry semi-standardized angled pickups, it'd open some doors up for pickup swaps eventually, but I don't see such a thing happening too soon. *If* (big fat if, there) a FF production model takes off, like an Ibanez or a Jackson or even Agile, there might become a de facto standard angle (kind of how F spaced pickups became a standard simply by market saturation), and then other suppliers will start following suit for economic reasons (for example, if there are cheap mulitscale guitars from 2+ brands with pickups from the same factory).



although the idea is good, is not that easy to do. Each brand would have a different idea on how big the fan should be. Where the parallel fret would sit, and where the pickups would be placed at. These tree factors would make a standard pickup slant almost impossible

I know hipshot is starting to sell angled bridges at 3 different degrees. This could help to make a "standard" industry set, as the bridge would dictate how the pickups would be. Unless you go crazy fan and put the parralell fret at the 17th mark or something like that lol

other thing would be maybe to find a way to sell the pickups with interchangeable baseplates, so you can slant the bobines as you wish to fit any baseplate.


Im getting an Ormsby soon, so at least I know I wont need to change the pickups, they are already great. They are goign to be selling replacements soon too, but not sure if these would fit other brands


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## laxu (Aug 18, 2016)

bostjan said:


> BKP used to at least be willing to rewind a supplied multiscale pickup into something voiced like theirs. Since they've gotten bigger, I'm not so sure they still do, but it could be worth asking Tim if you are considering swapping your slanted pickups for something else.
> 
> Frankly, if the industry semi-standardized angled pickups, it'd open some doors up for pickup swaps eventually, but I don't see such a thing happening too soon. *If* (big fat if, there) a FF production model takes off, like an Ibanez or a Jackson or even Agile, there might become a de facto standard angle (kind of how F spaced pickups became a standard simply by market saturation), and then other suppliers will start following suit for economic reasons (for example, if there are cheap mulitscale guitars from 2+ brands with pickups from the same factory).
> 
> TL;DR - The pickup issue is not insurmountable, just a major pain.



BKP can do custom angled multiscale pickups for £20 extra per pickup, I asked them. They also said you'd have to carve some wood out of the Kiesel pickup routes to fit them, probably because of the different tabs. Taking out some metal from the tabs might work out as well though.

It's hard to have a standard fro angled pickups because there's a lot of different setups out there. Some slant them the same as the bridge slant but for example my Kiesel does not have that and instead the pickup slant is based on what gets pole pieces aligned with strings exactly. Some manufacturers have crazy stuff like the neck pickup angled the other way and so on.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 29, 2016)

Related question :
I'm looking at picking up a multiscale 8 string Agile from Rondo, but I'm torn between the 25.5-27 and the 25.5-28.5. It seems like the 28 will sound better, but I'm thinking the 3" fan will be way too extreme to be comfortable.

I plan to tune standard F# and play most chords near the perpendicular fret. 

Is the 28.5 going to sound/feel much better than 27 for standard tuning on an 8? Is the 3 inch fan going to be awful? 

Apologies if I should have made a new thread for this.


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## laxu (Aug 30, 2016)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> Related question :
> I'm looking at picking up a multiscale 8 string Agile from Rondo, but I'm torn between the 25.5-27 and the 25.5-28.5. It seems like the 28 will sound better, but I'm thinking the 3" fan will be way too extreme to be comfortable.
> 
> I plan to tune standard F# and play most chords near the perpendicular fret.
> ...



Get the 28.5". 25.5-27 is great for a 7-string but you want a bit more for an 8.


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## GuitarBizarre (Aug 30, 2016)

Bear in mind that the fretboard is wider.

A 3" fan on a fretboard that's only 42mm wide, will produce a much steeper angle than a 3" fan on a fretboard that's 73mm wide.

This will make a very small difference, but it will probably be enough for the 3" fan to be playable on an 8 where it would be ridiculous on a 6.


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## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 30, 2016)

Thanks guys. 28 it is!


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