# 25.5" scale 6-string for low tunings?



## The Silent Man (Apr 13, 2018)

I am considering a "standard" 6-string Jackson Soloist, neck-through, 25.5" scale, Seymour Duncan humbuckers and hardtail bridge.

My purpose is to use the guitar exclusively for low tunings: D, drop C, C, even B but no lower than that (and of course a bit of string flattering in B is acceptable).
I want to be able to change quickly between various tunings, just like I currently do with my Ibanez RGD321 - which is a baritone with 26.5" scale and therefore allows me to use thin string gauges (such as 46 - 9).

I guess a hardtail bridge and slightly thicker string gauges should work for me, after raising each string's height.

Do you think that guitar suits my needs?
I plan to keep the string gauge as thin as possible; I enjoy thin gauges, in spite of my purposes.
Thanks in advance for your precious opinion!


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## bostjan (Apr 13, 2018)

I mean, going from D to B is a bit drastic for one guitar. Obviously D to drop C is a piece of cake. Are you talking about retuning on the fly? If so, I pity your bandmates. If not, then there's no reason why you couldn't get D standard and B standard out of the same guitar with a new set of strings and a few adjustments in between. B standard isn't too low for 25.5", although a longer scale will sound a little brighter and tighter in comparison, it's a subtle difference at that point.

Your other option might be a drop pedal or something to stay in D standard/Drop C and then use the pedal to take you down a whole step or a minor third. Of course, it'll only affect what you hear from your amplifier that way.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a magic bullet guitar or sting or anything like that which will allow you to tune to wild ranges of tunings without having to fiddle a little with your setup.


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## jwoods986 (Apr 13, 2018)

Digitech Drop pedal. Got one last Fall and love it!


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## elkoki (Apr 13, 2018)

You're gonna need slightly thicker strings than your used to if you want to tune to B on a 25.5 scale ... at least 11-60 .. anything else might be too floppy and will causes intonation problems ...

BTW tuning from D to B will likely need you to set the intonation on your saddles differently and possibly even tweak your truss rod... usually I try to setup my guitars for different tunings and leave them as is. But occasionally I drop them down too ,.except I don't play in a band so if I sound like shit .. it's only to my self


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## Edika (Apr 13, 2018)

In terms of if the guitar itself performing in those tunings then there'd be no problem. I have a Soloist in C standard with a 12-54 set and it plays great. It has a Floyd so no tuning changes on the spot. I have another guitar in D standar with a 10-46 set and sounds great even though the strings are a bit more bendy.

Intonation plays a great deal as well as the pickups. For each tuning you have to set the intonationior your guitar will always sound like it's out of key the further up you go on the neck. If the guitar you're getting has the JB in the bridge I don't know how well it will sound below D. The guitar with the 10-46 set in D has the JB and 59 and sounds great but I had a guitar in the past that had the JB and I had tuned in C and it sounded uninspiring to say the least. It might sound good in your case so try before you change.

I have to say though both my Soloists sound darker from what I would expect from Alder body, Maple neck and Ebony fingerboard guitars.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 13, 2018)

I have a PRS Tremonti "Baritone" which is 25.5 and comes from factory with .014 - .068 tuned to C#-Std or Drop-B. I didn't mind the gauges, but I play a lot of lead stuff and I usually use .09s. So I changed the strings to the NYXL .012- .060, but I swapped in an .011 for the high E, and I'm very happy.

It perfectly intonates all the way down to Drop-A, although I tend to keep it in C-Std/Drop-A to play In Flames type stuff.... it has low string action and absolutely punches you in the face.

http://www.prsguitars.com/index.php/electrics/core/mark_tremonti_baritone_limited_edition_2017


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## The Silent Man (Apr 13, 2018)

bostjan said:


> I mean, going from D to B is a bit drastic for one guitar.
> B standard isn't too low for 25.5", although a longer scale will sound a little brighter and tighter in comparison, it's a subtle difference at that point.


A 2 whole steps interval is drastic! That's why I'm totally fine with the idea of slightly loose strings in B and perhaps an unoptimal C.
I'm changing tuning on the fly, not "live" and not in a band, but I currently do it in a minute on a baritone Ibanez RGD and this is something I appreciate.

Pedals are not an option to me right now, although there are some really nice ones out there.



elkoki said:


> if you want to tune to B on a 25.5 scale ... at least 11-60 .. anything else might be too floppy and will causes intonation problems ...
> BTW tuning from D to B will likely need you to set the intonation on your saddles differently and possibly even tweak your truss rod... usually I try to setup my guitars for different tunings and leave them as is. But occasionally I drop them down too ,.except I don't play in a band so if I sound like shit .. it's only to my self


Exactly. I need to be able to shift tunings on the fly and have fun.
So a 11-60 gauge would be optimal to you for B.


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## Shask (Apr 13, 2018)

I have a 25.5" Ibanez I keep in B with these strings. They are 12-52, with a wound G, and work just fine. (Kind of like 9-42 in E)

http://www.daddario.com/DADProductD...ductname=EJ21_Nickel_Wound__Jazz_Light__12_52


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## Shask (Apr 13, 2018)

.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 15, 2018)

Edika said:


> If the guitar you're getting has the JB in the bridge I don't know how well it will sound below D. The guitar with the 10-46 set in D has the JB and 59 and sounds great but I had a guitar in the past that had the JB and I had tuned in C and it sounded uninspiring to say the least. It might sound good in your case so try before you change.


Thanks for your advice.
The humbuckers would be Seymour Duncan TB-6 and SH-6N. 
Do you think the "dark" sound you describe could be related to string gauges (or strings in general)?


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## Edika (Apr 15, 2018)

From my experience so far thicker strings for the same tuning seem to make the sound more powerful but duller. The sound looses some edge and definition. I tend also to move the pickups further away than what I would with thinner gauges. I did notice an effect of the string brand themselves, especially for thicker strings. I mainly use D'Addario 10-46 nickel wounds for standard tuning. On a 7 string I was trying to tune to Drop A all the thicker D'Addario strings I tried sounded a bit undefined. I won a set of Stringjoy strings and with the same gauges as the D'Addario they were clearer and a lot more defined. When I restrung the guitar with D'Addarios the difference was extremely obvious. So I'm thinking of giving the NXYL's a go or the Ernie Ball Cobalts that another guitar I bought came in and are super clear sounding.

However the JB has a relatively loose bass response so low tuning and thick strings exaggerate the looseness in the bass response and the sound becomes quite muddy. However since you're getting the Distortion set in the guitar it should be quite better in terms of response as the Distortion is quite tighter than the JB. If you're planning on playing more technical stuff I'd advise you to go with the thinnest possible string gauge you can for the specific tuning you'll have the guitar in.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 15, 2018)

Edika said:


> since you're getting the Distortion set in the guitar it should be quite better in terms of response as the Distortion is quite tighter than the JB.


That's encouraging. I don't like muddy sounds and I play "acoustic" stuff, metal, progressive metal and music that definitely requires the low strings to sound as clean/definite as possible.


Edika said:


> If you're planning on playing more technical stuff I'd advise you to go with the thinnest possible string gauge you can for the specific tuning you'll have the guitar in.


That's exactly what I want to do.
Even on a 7-string I stick to the thinnest string gauge possible.
I like the brightness of thin strings and I need the low strings to sound as clear as possible. Perhaps I should start with 10-46 for D and C tunings and see what happens in B, then move to a slightly heavier gauge if needed.



Shask said:


> I have a 25.5" Ibanez I keep in B with these strings. They are 12-52, with a wound G, and work just fine. (Kind of like 9-42 in E)


Do you think that moving from D down to C and occasionally B I could aim at thinner string gauge than 12-52?


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## Shask (Apr 15, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> Do you think that moving from D down to C and occasionally B I could aim at thinner string gauge than 12-52?


Personally, I like very light strings, so I typically play a 25.5" guitar in D with 10-46 strings. In C, I would probably either go 11-49, or possibly 10-52. The 10-52 might be better near B and C, while the 11-49 might be better towards C# and D. I would probably try those two, and see which you prefer.

I mentioned the 12-52 set, because they have a wound G. I like those when I am tuned to B, because it is like having a standard tuned guitar, with that extra low B. Almost like a 7 string, without the smallest string. The wound G helps playing "standard tuning" songs when you are not using the top string.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 15, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> I have a PRS Tremonti "Baritone" which is 25.5 and comes from factory with .014 - .068 tuned to C#-Std or Drop-B. I didn't mind the gauges, but I play a lot of lead stuff and I usually use .09s. So I changed the strings to the NYXL .012- .060, but I swapped in an .011 for the high E, and I'm very happy.
> 
> It perfectly intonates all the way down to Drop-A, although I tend to keep it in C-Std/Drop-A to play In Flames type stuff.... it has low string action and absolutely punches you in the face.



In Flames is one of my favourite bands.
So are you currently using .011 - .060 for C and occasionally Drop A?


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## The Silent Man (Apr 16, 2018)

Shask said:


> Personally, I like very light strings, so I typically play a 25.5" guitar in D with 10-46 strings. In C, I would probably either go 11-49, or possibly 10-52. The 10-52 might be better near B and C, while the 11-49 might be better towards C# and D. I would probably try those two, and see which you prefer.


Thanks for your advice. I will keep these numbers in mind and I'll take a look at the string tension threads. 
I might start from those 11-49. I expect bendings in "higher" (D) tunings to be a bit tough with 10-52 string gauge.



Shask said:


> I mentioned the 12-52 set, because they have a wound G. I like those when I am tuned to B, because it is like having a standard tuned guitar, with that extra low B. Almost like a 7 string, without the smallest string. The wound G helps playing "standard tuning" songs when you are not using the top string.


Never heard about how a wound G string affects the sound and playing experience. Sounds interesting.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 17, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> In Flames is one of my favourite bands.
> So are you currently using .011 - .060 for C and occasionally Drop A?



Yup and punchy as hell. I am in love with NYXL strings anyways. The 14-68 were ok, but I like extremely low action. The stoptail doesn't have individual string height adjustment, so I couldn't just bump the two low strings due to the large gauges. With the 11-60 I can get so much lower yet retain 90% of the punch those bigger strings had, plus it's more playable for me since I do a lot of bending.


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## Mathemagician (Apr 17, 2018)

I tune a 25.5 to C# standard/drop B with 11-56 NYXL.


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## gujukal (Apr 17, 2018)

I would suggest you 11-56 gauge strings or even 10-52 depending on how tight you want it.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Apr 17, 2018)

jwoods986 said:


> Digitech Drop pedal. Got one last Fall and love it!



This. D to B is a pretty big difference, especially on a standard scale guitar. I have the Drop and the Whammy DT in different setups and they always deliver  

Set up the guitar to whatever your highest tuning is, then use the Drop pedal to shift it down. I've found up to three half steps is the most you can go without too much perceived loss of pick attack, though it still tracks well up to five half steps. If you want to play with different tunings for fun on the fly, this is the best option. The only string you'd ever have to actually adjust is the 6th string if you're changing between drop and standard tunings. 

Also, if you like the feel of a 9-46 set on your RGD, you would probably like the feel of a 10-52 set on a standard scale tuned to D standard/drop C


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## Wolfos (Apr 17, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> I am considering a "standard" 6-string Jackson Soloist, neck-through, 25.5" scale, Seymour Duncan humbuckers and hardtail bridge.
> 
> My purpose is to use the guitar exclusively for low tunings: D, drop C, C, even B but no lower than that (and of course a bit of string flattering in B is acceptable).
> I want to be able to change quickly between various tunings, just like I currently do with my Ibanez RGD321 - which is a baritone with 26.5" scale and therefore allows me to use thin string gauges (such as 46 - 9).
> ...



If you have a 26.5" guitar already why dont you keep it in drop B and the 25.5" guitar for the drop D. Then see which one feels better tuning down or up to C.

That way you get the best of both worlds without sacrificing your string gauges and intonation as much.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 18, 2018)

I keep my carvin dc600 in drop B/C# standard. I use .12-68 strings and it more than holds up for that tuning.


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## lewis (Apr 19, 2018)

lol my headless is 25.5 scale and thats going to be in drop G# tuned to 432hz (so even lower)


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## The Silent Man (Apr 22, 2018)

gujukal said:


> I would suggest you 11-56 gauge strings or even 10-52 depending on how tight you want it.


Having loose strings in B is definitely acceptable, considering the 4-step interval (from D to B) I'm interested in. 10-52 seems to be among the top suggestions here.



USMarine75 said:


> With the 11-60 I can get so much lower yet retain 90% of the punch those bigger strings had, plus it's more playable for me since I do a lot of bending.


Same here, I do a lot of bending. If the string gauge is too heavy I'm not having fun.



gujukal said:


> I would suggest you 11-56 gauge strings or even 10-52 depending on how tight you want it.


Thanks for your suggestion!



KnightBrolaire said:


> I keep my carvin dc600 in drop B/C# standard. I use .12-68 strings and it more than holds up for that tuning.


Is that a regular-scaled (25.5") guitar? 



TheWarAgainstTime said:


> Also, if you like the feel of a 9-46 set on your RGD, you would probably like the feel of a 10-52 set on a standard scale tuned to D standard/drop C


Thanks for your input! I currently have no plans of using a pedal. I enjoy the feel of 9-46 on the RGD, so I will look for thin regular or hybrid string gauges with similiar feel, starting with 10-52 as some of you guys here suggest.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 23, 2018)

Wolfos said:


> If you have a 26.5" guitar already why dont you keep it in drop B and the 25.5" guitar for the drop D. Then see which one feels better tuning down or up to C.
> That way you get the best of both worlds without sacrificing your string gauges and intonation as much.


That would be a great solution.
Unfortunately I cannot keep many guitars in my room. I'm justifying each guitar purchase with a specific purpose (entry-level 6-string for daily use, hi-end 6-string with floating bridge, 6-string with fixed bridge for down-tuning, 7-string... and so on). 
So if I want a new guitar for down-tuning I need to part ways with some other - the 26.5" Ibanez.




lewis said:


> lol my headless is 25.5 scale and thats going to be in drop G# tuned to 432hz (so even lower)


Wow, that's among the lowest tunings I've heard about so far


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## Wolfos (Apr 23, 2018)

Sell all your gear and buy a Line 6 Variax Shuriken and Helix pedal!

Literally every tuning possible with the tap of a button!


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## The Silent Man (Apr 23, 2018)

Wolfos said:


> Sell all your gear and buy a Line 6 Variax Shuriken and Helix pedal!
> Literally every tuning possible with the tap of a button!


At least 2 guitars are here to stay  I haven't considered any pedal so far, but I'm going to check it out!


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## Wolfos (Apr 23, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> At least 2 guitars are here to stay  I haven't considered any pedal so far, but I'm going to check it out!


Here's the link you should watch it's awesome.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 23, 2018)

Wolfos said:


> Here's the link you should watch it's awesome.



Impressive! Electric guitars are "a miracle" of Physics. Add Electronics to it and it's just incredible.


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## Tortellini (Apr 29, 2018)

I used to put _Not Even Slinky’s_ (12-56) on my Telecaster and I had fine tension at Drop B. Intonation may not have been as easy as it is to set now that I’m back at Standard, but it wasn’t anything where I thought I needed a longer scale. I’d try 58-60 and that should work great.


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## Humanoid (Apr 29, 2018)

In my opinion, any normal guitar will do. 25.5" scale is enough to handle as low as A tuning. With 24.75" you can go to B. Any lower than that, you're going to need a baritone for the tuning to be stable.


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## The Silent Man (Apr 29, 2018)

Humanoid said:


> In my opinion, any normal guitar will do. 25.5" scale is enough to handle as low as A tuning. With 24.75" you can go to B. Any lower than that, you're going to need a baritone for the tuning to be stable.


Sounds great. I don't need anything lower than Drop A for sure. So there's plenty of choice!


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## Rocks256 (Apr 30, 2018)

Even Les Paul is really bright with its 24,75 scale tuned to C standard with 12 gauge strings


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## The Silent Man (May 9, 2018)

Rocks256 said:


> Even Les Paul is really bright with its 24,75 scale tuned to C standard with 12 gauge strings


Interesting!


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## bostjan (May 9, 2018)

Rocks256 said:


> Even Les Paul is really bright with its 24,75 scale tuned to C standard with 12 gauge strings


Says the person with a telecaster avatar.


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## NateFalcon (May 9, 2018)




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## lewis (May 9, 2018)

you will be absolutely fine at Drop B at this scale.

I mean, Im planning Drop G# on my 25.5 scale hahahaha


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## Rocks256 (May 13, 2018)

bostjan said:


> Says the person with a telecaster avatar.



Yeah, have had project with friend, we'were tuned to C Standard. Me on telecaster and he on les paul, played it a few times. I assume people are deaftarded with they need for baritone for D or C tunning. Only thing i dont understand are guitars with longer scale than 27'5 . Anything 28 or longer sounds too much like bass and too high on highest strings.


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## bostjan (May 14, 2018)

Rocks256 said:


> Yeah, have had project with friend, we'were tuned to C Standard. Me on telecaster and he on les paul, played it a few times. I assume people are deaftarded with they need for baritone for D or C tunning. Only thing i dont understand are guitars with longer scale than 27'5 . Anything 28 or longer sounds too much like bass and too high on highest strings.


I don't understand the need for 27 foot 5 inch scale lengths on guitar, either. 
Of course, playing in C on a 28" scale is like playing in D on a 25 1/2" scale guitar.


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## Flappydoodle (May 22, 2018)

In Flames and Amon Amarth both play Drop A or B standard on Gibsons with 24.75 scales. Matt Heafy from Trivium plays as low as Ab on a 24.75 inch scale 7 string.

Honestly, the scale length doesn't make *that* much difference. In terms of tension, one extra inch of scale length is approx one tone. So the same gauge strings for 24.5 in E are like 25.5 in Eb. Hardly a huge difference.

And for everything else like intonation, playability and so on, it all comes down to the quality of the guitar and the quality of the setup. A properly adjusted neck, bridge, saddle heights, good frets, pickups that don't get muddy etc - you'll be fine.


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## The Silent Man (May 25, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> In Flames and Amon Amarth both play Drop A or B standard on Gibsons with 24.75 scales. Matt Heafy from Trivium plays as low as Ab on a 24.75 inch scale 7 string.


Then I guess those string gauges are nearly for bass guitar...


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## Metropolis (May 25, 2018)

Longer scale length affects to clarity quite a lot, and in todays standards I found Amon Amarth's guitar tone to be somewhat in muddy territory. Or even early to mid 2000's In Flames. Gibson style guitars sound always pretty dark.


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## The Silent Man (May 25, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> Longer scale length affects to clarity quite a lot, and in todays standards I found Amon Amarth's guitar tone to be somewhat in muddy territory. Or even early to mid 2000's In Flames. Gibson style guitars sound always pretty dark.


I didn't know about clarity being affected by scale length, but I agree on the Gibson. 
Would you recommend a Jackson Soloist if I'm looking for clarity?


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## Metropolis (May 25, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> I didn't know about clarity being affected by scale length, but I agree on the Gibson.
> Would you recommend a Jackson Soloist if I'm looking for clarity?



I'm more Ibanez type of guy, but why not. There is obviously a lot of bolt or glued neck superstrats with hardtail and 25,5" scale length, which can achieve pretty much same things.

As for string gauge I like them to be easily bendable in higher register and little bit tighter in lower register. For E-standard I would use 9-46, for D 10-52, for C 11-56 etc. I never go super low with 25,5", but there is certain kind of limit where string gauge is too thick and you start to lose certain kind of clarity.


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## The Silent Man (May 25, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> I'm more Ibanez type of guy, but why not.
> 
> As for string gauge I like them to be easily bendable in higher register and little bit tighter in lower register. For E-standard I would use 9-46, for D 10-52, for C 11-56 etc. I never go super low with 25,5", but there is certain kind of limit where string gauge is too thick and you start to lose certain kind of clarity.



I see we are both on the same wavelength. 
I basically play Ibanez only and I use the same hybrid string gauge for the above reasons. I'm not a fan of thick strings.


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## Flappydoodle (May 25, 2018)

The Silent Man said:


> Then I guess those string gauges are nearly for bass guitar...



You would think so - but Matt Heafy plays 10-52 for 6 strings and I think he adds a 60 on the bottom for 7 string. 

Amon Amarth use 13-62, which is fairly heavy but nothing super crazy when tuned to B standard. 

No idea what the guys from In Flames use. 

I looked into this stuff a while ago and was surprised how many pros were using very light strings. Maybe easier and less fatiguing to play every night. Plus, good technique (not picking and fretting too hard), compression, and the loud volumes they play.


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## couverdure (May 26, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> No idea what the guys from In Flames use.


https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...otte_what_are_my_favorite_guitar_pickups.html


> Focusing on the string department, Bjorn noted:
> 
> "I have a nickel allergy, which is sort of a pain in the ass when you play metal strings.
> 
> "So Jimmy Dunlop created a special set of strings for me that are coated. I think the gauge is .68 to .11 or .12."


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## The Silent Man (May 26, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> I looked into this stuff a while ago and was surprised how many pros were using very light strings. Maybe easier and less fatiguing to play every night. Plus, good technique (not picking and fretting too hard), compression, and the loud volumes they play.


I like light strings, they are easier to play, especially when it comes to technical stuff, I mean music that is hard and physically demanding.



couverdure said:


> https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...otte_what_are_my_favorite_guitar_pickups.html


Wow, even an allergy to nickel!


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