# Let's talk about WIZARD



## jco5055 (Feb 7, 2019)

So some of the comments in my "dream amp" thread made me remember/look at Wizard some more, and I figured I'd rather hear SSO's opinion compared to the dad rockers on Rig Talk or worse The Gear Page.

So I'm curious, I know the stereotype/renown is that for just pure POWER Wizard's can't be beat, and they're pretty much the "ultimate" Marshall flavored amp besides possibly a DINO. I know when I was searching for my next head I had included Wizard in my research choices, but did not take them seriously until everyone would say "if you can get a Wizard do it". But man, is there ANY clip out there that really shows what they're made of? I know clips aren't the best to judge but with something like a Wizard it's next to impossible to hear one in person without just taking the risk and buying one yourself. 

When I look at the artist roster/listen to the bands I'm not exactly blown away either. I listened to some Annihilator tracks that would have been made after Jeff got a Wizard and no "orgasmic" tone etc. 

So are they all they're hyped up to be? Is the build quality etc (and mostly the tones of course) truly the best of the best? I can only think of them, Larry's amps, and Cameron modded stuff( which I myself am lucky to own and it's AMAZING) as like THE top level of amps, where even great stuff like Mesas and Ksr's for example are considered just a step below. Now I'm even curious if there's other relatively unknown brands out there that are also of this absurdly insane quality...I thought Tapps seemed pretty good myself, it's a shame that they're just a hobby for him.

Like obviously Dumble is the true top renowned stuff, but you'd never recommend a metal guy play those...it almsost seems the same with Wizard like "do you like AC/DC, or even if you play metal do you want to retain that "spirit"? If not Wizard's are gonna be like a 5/10 for you".


----------



## budda (Feb 8, 2019)

If you are looking at wizard, you should look at metropolous and louis electric.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

budda said:


> If you are looking at wizard, you should look at metropolous and louis electric.



Honestly this is just window shopping I'm not able to get an amp right now haha...I'm just more or less extremely enamored by the "mystique" surrounding them, especially because I have yet to hear a recording that blows me away.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> Honestly this is just window shopping I'm not able to get an amp right now haha...I'm just more or less extremely enamored by the "mystique" surrounding them, especially because I have yet to hear a recording that blows me away.



Amps like this are there to give you that 1% that's missing from _that_ sound that you've been hunting forever. So unless you know what you're looking for, and have been chasing it, you're probably not going to be enamored by some videos or recordings. 

For some people, it's all about that 1%.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Amps like this are there to give you that 1% that's missing from _that_ sound that you've been hunting forever. So unless you know what you're looking for, and have been chasing it, you're probably not going to be enamored by some videos or recordings.
> 
> For some people, it's all about that 1%.



yeah even though I do find myself liking modded marshalls I guess since I'm not a LOVER of that sound it's not giving me that push over the edge.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Feb 8, 2019)

honestly I don't get the hype for most of the boutique hot rodded marshall flavored amps out there. There's so many that sound good for better prices than a wizard imo ( ceriatone chupacabra/splawns/budda superdrive 80s/ peavey windsor/ henning cherry bomb, diezel lil fokker, etc).


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 8, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> honestly I don't get the hype for most of the boutique hot rodded marshall flavored amps out there. There's so many that sound good for better prices than a wizard imo ( ceriatone chupacabra/splawns/budda superdrive 80s/ peavey windsor/ henning cherry bomb, diezel lil fokker, etc).



Like I said above, this is a 1% kind of thing.

Most people would be more than happy with a good USA Strat, but some need[really want] that Suhr/Anderson/Tyler/Sadowsky.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> honestly I don't get the hype for most of the boutique hot rodded marshall flavored amps out there. There's so many that sound good for better prices than a wizard imo ( ceriatone chupacabra/splawns/budda superdrive 80s/ peavey windsor/ henning cherry bomb, diezel lil fokker, etc).



yeah I just remembered when I was originally looking for a head to get I REALLY liked the Cherry bomb from clips I heard, it was the case of reading forums etc that had me not get one just cuz they didn't have the love you see from like Camerons etc.


----------



## narad (Feb 8, 2019)

I love Wizard type C tone, and I don't really like Cameron amps, and I'm pretty indifferent to Larry, so I think mindset like "where even great stuff like Mesas and Ksr's for example are considered just a step below" is misguided. It almost sounds like you just ranked them by price. It's all subjective -- nothing inside that makes one a better amp than another.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

narad said:


> I love Wizard type C tone, and I don't really like Cameron amps, and I'm pretty indifferent to Larry, so I think mindset like "where even great stuff like Mesas and Ksr's for example are considered just a step below" is misguided. It almost sounds like you just ranked them by price. It's all subjective -- nothing inside that makes one a better amp than another.



I wasn't meaning to rank them by price, I just went with the good stuff that seems to be more of "SSO's faves" so to speak.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 8, 2019)

R we being invaded by rig talk


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> R we being invaded by rig talk



haha I just want to hear a different perspective on stuff from people who realize there's been advancements in tone since the 80s.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> haha I just want to hear a different perspective on stuff from people who realize there's been advancements in tone since the 80s.



The wizard is like literally the opposite of that though. 

That whole class of amps are loved by dad rock cover bands who are chasing that last drop of cover band goodness. Which is the entire Mo of rig talk


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> The wizard is like literally the opposite of that though.
> 
> That whole class of amps are loved by dad rock cover bands who are chasing that last drop of cover band goodness. Which is the entire Mo of rig talk



You're right but 1) that's why I wanted to hear SSO's opinion on 'em and 2) if you check my dream amp thread the Wizard was vouched by a few guys.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> You're right but 1) that's why I wanted to hear SSO's opinion on 'em and 2) if you check my dream amp thread the Wizard was vouched by a few guys.



I mean that’s fine. The bestest Marshall sound ever is still a dream for most people.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> yeah I just remembered when I was originally looking for a head to get I REALLY liked the Cherry bomb from clips I heard, it was the case of reading forums etc that had me not get one just cuz they didn't have the love you see from like Camerons etc.


I lurk on occasion around tgp/rigtalk and they really jerk off to hot rodded marshall flavored amps over there.. Here, we jerk off more to non marshall tones like the mkIIc+/jp2c


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I lurk on occasion around tgp/rigtalk and they really jerk off to hot rodded marshall flavored amps over there.. Here, we jerk off more to non marshall tones like the mkIIc+/jp2c



To be fair Mesas are great though haha


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 8, 2019)

@Wizard of Ozz 

Your services are needed.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> To be fair Mesas are great though haha


they are. I love my mk3 since it can do modern tones or the old school hair metal stuff if I want it to. Definitely doesn't hurt that it has a nice clean channel.


----------



## Humbuck (Feb 8, 2019)

Doesn't anybody like old Marshalls any more?


----------



## budda (Feb 8, 2019)

Humbuck said:


> Doesn't anybody like old Marshalls any more?



Not sure if sarcasm but...

Been hauling my jcm800 2203 around north america for almost 5 years


----------



## Nitrobattery (Feb 8, 2019)

A great example of a Wizard Modern Classic is Metallica's Garage Inc. album (James uses them panned to the left), and there's one all over Hardwired To Self Destruct. They're tight, aggressive and super punchy. They're like hot-rodded Marshalls that are the opposite of the Brown Sound. Where amps like Suhr and Friedman have a cool squish and sag to them, the Wizard stuff is extremely tight and unforgiving...in a really cool way.

I've wanted one forever, and have recently gone through a bunch higher end Marshall style amps on a tone hunt. The Wizard MCII is pretty much the last one on my list, and I think I'm finally going to cave and track one down. I played a Wizard MTL about a year ago and was totally knocked out. Like mentioned above, whether or not that last 1% matters to you is up to the individual player...but there really is something special there.

For what its worth, if you're after a tight, punchy Marshally amp that will do classic rock as well as a killer modern metal tone, you can snag a Splawn Quick Rod for around 1k used. The QR has been my go-to amp for several years now and I love it. I run it into a Wizard 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks, and it's like a cool JCM800/5150 hybrid. The clean channel leaves a lot to be desired, but the dirty channel more than makes up for it.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 8, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> @Wizard of Ozz
> 
> Your services are needed.



Y'all rang. 


Wizard builds a great amp. I've got a MC2 and a MTL. Rick builds 3 main different models: VC, MC/MC2, MTL. They all sound different because they were designed for different sounds. I've owned a lot of amps (I mean a lot of amps) and for me Wizards are the best of the modified, hot rodded Marshall world. The MC2 and MTL his take on a high gain modified Marshall circuit. The Vintage Classic is what you hear on AC/DC... it's his take on a hot 1959 SLP circuit. Big difference. The MC2 and MTL have a lot more gain and a more modern voicing vs the VC. The MC2 and MTL are based on a high gain Marshall, but with a big open, full, uncompressed sound.

Also I've had a bunch of other modified Marshalls and or Marshall-based amps from Cameron, Suhr, Bogner, Splawn, Jackson, Langer, and others... and for me Wizard does it best, but it is also a more apples to oranges comparison. They all are different take on a similar theme. Not clones. A MC2/MTL sounds very different from any Cameron LowGain/HighGain Jose, Ocean, or Aldrich mod... Suhr SE mod, or Lee Jackson mod. The big difference is in the voicing, eq, tightness, articulation, and level of compression going on. Wizards are a lot more open sounding and you can crank the gain at very loud volumes with little compression and without squashing your signal... try that with any Cameron. Good luck.

I'd honestly take either my Wizard MC2 or MTL over a lot of other amps. I owned a Diezel VH4, Herbert MK2, and KSR Gemini all at the same time (all bought new, not used, so no weird amp repair issues) and I preferred the Wizards over the others. Agin a somewhat apples to oranges comparison, but just stating my preference. I do not play Dad Rock... I'm not a Dad ... not much of a rock fan... I mostly play power and death metal. Amon Amarth, CoB, Arch Enemy, Hammerfall, Sabaton, Epica, Metallica and others. So yeah... not a big rock guitar tone user here. Mainly metal.

Talking all about these amps and listening to clips is cool, but until you've played them side to side back to back, and lived with them for a few months, you really will never have a complete and full assessment of what they sound like and how they will respond to your style and your playing... not some metalhead on youtube in a 30 second clip. Blindly buying just one single amp based on 3rd hand info is a shot in the dark at best, and at worst you'll wind up stuck with or buying/selling amps several times over to find the one that works best for you. YMMV.


----------



## dongh1217 (Feb 8, 2019)

This is the best Brutal machine I’ve ever played. Dad rock? Huh? It’s fucking brutally insane, unmatched by any so-called high gain modded marshalls


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 8, 2019)

dongh1217 said:


> This is the best Brutal machine I’ve ever played. Dad rock? Huh? It’s fucking brutally insane, unmatched by any so-called high gain modded marshalls



Links to any good clips/videos?


----------



## dongh1217 (Feb 8, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Links to any good clips/videos?



The owner will chime in and share his properly recorded clips, he is on this Forum.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

dongh1217 said:


> The owner will chime in and share his properly recorded clips, he is on this Forum.



It's not Wizard of Ozz is it haha


----------



## dongh1217 (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> It's not Wizard of Ozz is it haha


Lol, we are from New Zealand, so certainly not WoOz


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 8, 2019)

I also forget to bring this up whenever Wizard is brought up. 

Apparently Wolf from Accept uses Wizard amps religiously. I don't know how long he's been using it, but for Blood of the Nations, it's all Wizard. Everything after that is a Kemper profile of a Wizard. I just know that his sound is the pinnacle of hot-rodded Marshall tones.


----------



## godgrinder (Feb 8, 2019)

I have that white MC1 from the photo above. The vibe on these things are a bit different from the usual super saturated modded Marshalls (Jose/Cameron/Friedman etc). Imagine the tight articulation and touch sensitivity similar to Fryette matched with a massive 3D sounding power section like an SLO, but still with the "kerrang" of a good old Marshall.

I got 2 clips here in a downtuned context.

My own shitty playing (a/b with SLO):


Reamped from Ola DI tracks:


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 8, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> It's not Wizard of Ozz is it haha



Not me lol. I have some recordered clips I’ll dig up... and I’ll make some new ones too. The Wizard MC2 and MTL both record great. What you put in is what you get out.


----------



## jco5055 (Feb 8, 2019)

Damn those clips sound great, especially the Ola DI track. As mentioned before I've never been in love with the "Marshall" sound but the frickin' CLARITY of those notes!


----------



## budda (Feb 8, 2019)

Someone has a 2012 MTL for trade/sale an hour away from me. No loop and no dollar amount listed, so screw him .


----------



## Jacksonluvr636 (Feb 8, 2019)

budda said:


> Someone has a 2012 MTL for trade/sale an hour away from me. No loop and no dollar amount listed, so screw him .


Just buy a 5150.


----------



## budda (Feb 8, 2019)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> Just buy a 5150.



Found a 6534+ but alas, money and things.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636 (Feb 8, 2019)

I've wanted a Wizard forever but they are so much $$$$$

I learned about them on Dad-Rock.com along with a lot of other gear related stuff. 80s haven for sure but they know their shit and there's a few metal guys on there too.


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 8, 2019)

Sort of off topic but, how close is a 6505 to an old Marshall 2203 or 2204? (since i guess most amps stem from those old Marshall’s)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 8, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Sort of off topic but, how close is a 6505 to an old Marshall 2203 or 2204? (since i guess most amps stem from those old Marshall’s)



I don't even think Eddie or James had a JCM in mind when designing the 5150.


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 8, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't even think Eddie or James had a JCM in mind when designing the 5150.



That’s actually pretty cool to know


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 8, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> That’s actually pretty cool to know



I mean, it's just an assumption.  From what I can tell, Eddie didn't really want to cop a Marshall sound with the 5150. Was leaning closer to the Soldano SLO.


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 8, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean, it's just an assumption.  From what I can tell, Eddie didn't really want to cop a Marshall sound with the 5150. Was leaning closer to the Soldano SLO.


Oh and a SLO is just another take on a Marshall so yeah, i guess it all stems back to marshall


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 8, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Oh and a SLO is just another take on a Marshall so yeah, i guess it all stems back to marshall



People keep saying that. But ya not really.


----------



## budda (Feb 9, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Sort of off topic but, how close is a 6505 to an old Marshall 2203 or 2204? (since i guess most amps stem from those old Marshall’s)



Not that close (though I've never gotten to A/B). The 5150 is more low-mid focused than a JCM800, with *way* more gain on tap. 5150's also have a resonance control that the JCM800 does not. That being said, if you boost an 800 properly you can get into 5150 territory a bit.

But if you want 5150 tone, buy one. If you want JCM800 tone, buy one of those 

And if you want to peel paint and melt faces, buy both and run them together.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 9, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Oh and a SLO is just another take on a Marshall so yeah, i guess it all stems back to marshall



Not really, the original SLOs were based on Soldano's tinkering with early Boogie amps, which themselves were kind of modified/Frankenstein'd Fenders, which is sort of what early Marshall amps were. 

So they share a common ancestor in some form, but diverged much earlier.

Interestingly enough, things came full circle a decade or so later when Mesa borrowed some cues (intentionally or otherwise, don't want to open that can of worms) from the SLO100.


----------



## budda (Feb 9, 2019)

TL/DR: most people here have never played a Wizard. It's going to be a very small group who can provide any real info.

It's one of those things where they're in demand enough that you probably won't lose money reselling if you decide it's not for you.


----------



## dongh1217 (Feb 9, 2019)

budda said:


> TL/DR: most people here have never played a Wizard. It's going to be a very small group who can provide any real info.
> 
> It's one of those things where they're in demand enough that you probably won't lose money reselling if you decide it's not for you.



Lose money on real boutique amp such as Wizard, never. 

Lose money on wanna be boutique amps? Certainly.


----------



## narad (Feb 9, 2019)

Buy a new Wizard and say goodbye to $1k+ in resale for sure.


----------



## budda (Feb 9, 2019)

narad said:


> Buy a new Wizard and say goodbye to $1k+ in resale for sure.



Buy nearly anything new and say goodbye to 15% or more. But if no one buys new, we stop getting new stuff.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 9, 2019)

A few random clips of my MTL I made when I bought it:

1. https://soundcloud.com/user-768095258-70430618/wizardmtl2

2. https://soundcloud.com/user-768095258-70430618/wizardmtl4

3. https://soundcloud.com/user-768095258-70430618/wizardmtl5

First 2 clips are with an Audix i5 dynamic mic... 3rd is with a Bock U195 LDC. Big difference in the mic sounds/placement. Not the heaviest sounds based on what the amp is capable of... lead channel gain was only at 1:00. Cab is a Wizard 4X12 with 2 V30s + 2 H75 Creambacks... the V30 is being close micced off center on the grill in the 2 first clips, and backed off about 12 inches in the 3 rd clip. Pickup was a Duncan Distortion in the bridge iirc.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Feb 9, 2019)

fuckk mee that does sound pretty killer


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 9, 2019)

Garage Inc is the amp that made me wanna get a Wizard.  James tone on Free Speech For the Dumb, Die Die my Darling and Whiskey in the Jar are just brutal as fuck.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Feb 9, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Garage Inc is the amp that made me wanna get a Wizard.  James tone on Free Speech For the Dumb, Die Die my Darling and Whiskey in the Jar are just brutal as fuck.


I was never into the studio tones on that album but sheeeeyit, that live tone is to die die my darling for


----------

