# True Temperament Frets?



## leandroab (Aug 22, 2009)

I don't know if this was brought up here by another member (search didn't come up to a result) or if this is the right section (may concern to 6, 7, 8, 999 string guitars) but this is a really funky fretting design! I think the videos can explain better than I!









True Temperament - Fretting systems


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 22, 2009)

Aesthetically looks terrible, but I see the logic behind it. Not really a new idea like. I must say, in that second video, the guy on the strat, some of notes look really hard to it, A on the 5th fret of the E string looks like a tiny gap, like a 22nd fret sized gap.


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 22, 2009)

i remember looking through their website a while ago. they buy unfretted warmoth necks and fret them in different temperaments. they have many different ones that sound better when played in different ways (like bluesy stuff, jazzy stuff, etc)


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## yingmin (Aug 22, 2009)

It seems like it would be really hard to accurately bend certain strings at certain frets because of the radical curvature of the fret itself. Kind of a cool idea, but probably more trouble than it's worth. And Vai's demonstration actually sounded more out of tune than a normal guitar.


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 22, 2009)

actually, vai´s demonstration sounded way too in tune 

it´s funny, because when chords are absolutely perfectly in tune, we perceive it as sounding weird. we´re too used to the imperfections of a standard guitar, i guess. the imperfections are part of the charm though, depending on what type of player you are.

the same type of "way too in tune" can be found on baritone scale guitars. there´s a part in Meshuggah´s song Pravus, from the obzen album (around 4:08), where they play some chugging and some chords, and one of the chords sounds "unnaturally" clean and in tune. i think it sounds awesome


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## EliNoPants (Aug 22, 2009)

if there was a remotely affordable way to do this for a 7-string 27" neck i'd be all about it, but from what i remember, their price to do it custom is pretty fucking insane


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## Esp Griffyn (Aug 22, 2009)

Yngwie Malmsteen bangs on all the time about how he has "perfect pitch", and how he hates being out of tune, and people doing out of tune bends, but you don't see him going for these fretjobs


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## Scali (Aug 22, 2009)

I've always wondered how practical this is, really...
I mean, in theory the guitar is in tune better, but that is if the guitar has just had a fretjob, new strings installed, and is tuned up perfectly.

After you've played one song, is it still in tune? Or did the strings detune enough that it's not going to be in tune anyway? Then it'd just be out of tune in a slightly different way from regular frets.

And how long would these frets last? When frets wear out, intonation suffers aswell. So how long will you really benefit from better intonation?

And then there's the question of the strings themselves. Firstly, is string production THAT consistent, that if you change strings, their thickness, tension and everything is good enough to still have that perfect intonation?
Secondly, what if you change to a different brand of strings, different gauge or different tuning? I suppose you'd have to refret the entire guitar, because the notes need to be intonated at different points.
I suppose as strings get dirty and get little wear-marks from the frets, it also impacts intonation.

And ofcourse there's also the human factor. The pressure of your hands also has an effect on intonation. Some people press the strings down harder than others, making the notes go up in pitch slightly. So how can they make a neck that is intonated perfectly for ME? And how can I make sure that I am consistent enough not to screw the intonation because one day I may press harder than another, for whatever reason?


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## sevenstringj (Aug 22, 2009)

In BOTH clips where they actually play guitars with this so-called "true temperment," the shit sounds outta tune.

I'll stick to my "wrong" frets and "out of tune" chords.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 22, 2009)

So, what if you bend the string past the "True temperment" bend in the fret? Does the pitch drastically change?


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## pink freud (Aug 22, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yngwie Malmsteen bangs on all the time about how he has "perfect pitch", and how he hates being out of tune, and people doing out of tune bends, but you don't see him going for these fretjobs



Could you imagine how hard it would be to make a scalloped true-temperament neck?


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## Caparison123 (Aug 22, 2009)

Mattias Eklundh has a true temp. Caparison.













Yet, in all the live shots from his blog, you never see it being used live. I think it's because they really can't function live or at least, they're more trouble than they're worth- it's not like going back and forth from a 6 and 7 string guitar...it throws your hands off everywhere.


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## shadowlife (Aug 22, 2009)

Man, i would love to try one of these necks- tuning paradise!
Maybe if i decide to build myself a Warmoth someday, i'll go for a neck form TT.


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## Variant (Aug 23, 2009)

It would seem that the TT system, like regular intonation, would be compatible only with a specific tuning and specific strings. Like .009 - .042 in EADGBE.


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## HumanFuseBen (Aug 24, 2009)

holy fuck that looks odd... how come vai's frets look WAY different than the 2nd video's frets?


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## hufschmid (Aug 24, 2009)

I find this incredible, and I'm going to order a neck pretty soon myself...

But check this out...


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## NegaTiveXero (Aug 24, 2009)

^WTF!?


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## hufschmid (Aug 24, 2009)

You need to be a player with a lots of Temperament to play on that neck


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## HumanFuseBen (Aug 24, 2009)

hoooly shit, what is that thing with the diagonal frets???? any more info on that?


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## Trespass (Aug 24, 2009)

In my perspective, as someone who has humbly dabbled into temperaments and just intonation, and all sorts of odd tonalities, I believe I've cultured my ears into being able to hear and define (to me) the difference. Naturally, I may have just psychologically convinced myself of this; just as some Stradivari collectors couldn't pick out the Strad convincingly in a double blind test on air. 

Regardless, I feel the real application of these frets would be in steel string and nylon string acoustics. Perhaps true temperament, on a slightly multiscale acoustic, would reunify the resonance of the instrument - Each string optimized to it's full potential scale, tension, guage, and intonation, and matching it's other plain and wounds consistently. As my imagine runs rampant, I imagine the blend between all these strings, possessing this dreamt unifying quality, would blend similar to that of a string section of an orchestra.


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## Hollowway (Aug 25, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> I find this incredible, and I'm going to order a neck pretty soon myself...
> 
> But check this out...



It looks like it would play the same. He's just got the frets diagonal such that they go from one fret to the next as they go from one string to the next. I can't think of any advantage, other than HUGE bends with little effort. But I would think you'd be getting some serious buzzing due to the acute angle of the strings over the frets.

The real question is where the Hell does Huf find all these strange guitars??


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## skeletor88 (Aug 25, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> It looks like it would play the same. He's just got the frets diagonal such that they go from one fret to the next as they go from one string to the next. I can't think of any advantage, other than HUGE bends with little effort. But I would think you'd be getting some serious buzzing due to the acute angle of the strings over the frets.
> 
> The real question is where the Hell does Huf find all these strange guitars??


 
I think its even scarier that its an older dude playing it, not just some 17 year old kid that wants something 'fucked up looking'.

i'd say that older guy has some insane wisdom and django chops....just me??? lol


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## hufschmid (Aug 25, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> The real question is where the Hell does Huf find all these strange guitars??



 go on google and thype temperament frets in the search, this picture appears on the first page


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## drmosh (Aug 25, 2009)

I'd love a 27" 7 string neck with these frets.


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## TomasO (Aug 25, 2009)

is it just me or do these TT frets look some some kid rolled up some silver silly putty and stuck them to a fretboard?


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 25, 2009)

if they could make a true temperament fretboard for a 30" scale 8 string in drop E tuning, i´d love to hear that 

ayways, i think one of the problems with these things is that like the earvana nut, you can really hear if the other guitarist isn´t using one, because it sounds slightly out of tune all the time.

and i don´t see the need for these things really, since the human ear doesn´t distinguish that well anyways. i´m not after "perfection", i´m after AWESOME NOISES AND SHIT. if i wanted a "perfect" sounding guitar, i´d program it with MIDI.

i can see how true temperament would be awesome in the studio though, for playing nice chords and stuff, where it sounds bad if it´s out of tune even the least bit.


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## Harry (Aug 25, 2009)

My biggest problem is, once you get this, you'll be out of tune with every other guitarist unless they go out and get this done to their guitar as well


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## hufschmid (Aug 25, 2009)

Well its been 48 hours since I have send a mail to them and I still did not receive any reply 

Kinda turns me off especially when you consider the prices involved, a little effort on the customer services communication would be appreciated....... 

Lets see how long it takes until they reply


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 25, 2009)

The necks are Warmoth Pro Constuction Strat necks with TT's own headstock shape, shipped to them unslotted.

While I was at Warmoth, they sent us one to put on one of our office strats, and while I was skeptical at first sight, concerned that bending a note would not feel natural and transition in pitch without some weird effects, I was pleasantly surprised at how unfounded my concern was. 

The don't feel any different that a regularly fretted neck. Playing chords all the way up the neck is dead accurate, even when comparing those notes against a piano for reference. In fact, the intonation comparison while playing with keys is so close, it's almost unnatural because of how used to innacurate intonation up the neck has become. Bending feels natural, I could see why Vai would want a couple, especially for recording.


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 26, 2009)

yeah, i can see how it could come in handy when played alongside other instruments, like pianos or entire orchestras. 

i would like to see the true temperament frets idea taken a bit further though, with machine-shaped frets instead of the nasty-looking warbly ones that were shaped by hand. anyone remember the company that makes those frets with the bend in them for the G string? those look properly made, and not all warbly.

i´d love to see the idea made affordable too, through mass production and stuff. and they need to make them for bass as well. if the idea were to catch on, it would be even more affordable. the problem now is that someone with a TT neck will make anyone else sound like out-of-tune shit in comparison, and so it´ll be hard to find bandmates. if it were easy and affordable, maybe more people would have them.


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## hufschmid (Sep 1, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Well its been 48 hours since I have send a mail to them and I still did not receive any reply
> 
> Kinda turns me off especially when you consider the prices involved, a little effort on the customer services communication would be appreciated.......
> 
> Lets see how long it takes until they reply





they eventually contacted me today and apoligized for the time it took....


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## Durero (Sep 1, 2009)

Well just for contrast I can say that I've had fantastic service with the Buzz Feiten company. When I ordered their installation package I got an international long distance call from them just to check in with me and make sure I was happy with everything and understood their stuff and knew who to call if I had any questions. 

I have a classical and an electric with their system installed and I'll never go back. Even simple major and minor chords sound just gorgeous everywhere on the neck.

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/index.htm


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