# Tighten Up a Dual Rectifier?



## saxman42 (May 26, 2013)

Hey everyone,

I've been looking at getting a new amp and decided to get a Baron Snott Watt, but it's going to take a while to come in. While I'm waiting for it, I want to see what I can do to tighten up my Dual Rectifier. For the most part, I love the tone it gets, but it's a bit too loose and woofy on the low end for my taste and it sounds fairly fizzy overall. These are the areas I'm thinking might make a difference:

Power Tubes: Swap out the 6l6s for KT77s, KT88s, or EL34s. I'm also assuming putting in some better preamp tubes will help.

Cab: I need a new 2x12 cab anyway, so I could really really use recommendations for a nice cab with some speakers that have a nice tight sound at lower volumes. I sold my Recitifer Cab because I really wasn't a fan of the V30 speakers and it was waaaaay too loud. I've heard Vader cabs are really nice for metal.

Any advice people have is greatly appreciated. I'm open to any suggestions to improve the sound of this amp. Thanks!


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## Bloody_Inferno (May 26, 2013)

Are you putting an OD pedal in front to boost the amp?


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## saxman42 (May 26, 2013)

Yeah. I'm using the BYOC Overdrive II kit. It helps quite a bit, but I'd still like to tighten up the sound a bit.


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## Darren James (May 26, 2013)

Try throwing a 6 band eq in the loop ( preferably something like an mxr) also, make sure the gain isn't cranked, mine is around 1 o'clock. As for cabs, I found my Mesa oversized to be to muddy but my orange 4x12 sounds awesome. I also swapped out the 6l6 for el34's and the tone I get is super tight yet "creamy" at the same time. I should also mention that I run a compressor out front as well to open things up.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 26, 2013)

Darren James said:


> Try throwing a 6 band eq in the loop ( preferably something like an mxr) also, make sure the gain isn't cranked, mine is around 1 o'clock. As for cabs, I found my Mesa oversized to be to muddy but my orange 4x12 sounds awesome. I also swapped out the 6l6 for el34's and the tone I get is super tight yet "creamy" at the same time. I should also mention that I run a compressor out front as well to open things up.



Pretty much this. I run my Triple with el34's into my Orange 4x12 with a comp and OD808 in front and a 31-band EQ in the loop. 

I'm running the OD as a clean boost, and the EQ is cutting a bit around 100-125, boosting a little at 63, 400, and 630-1K with as much cut as possible after 12K. My EQ also has high and low pass filters, and I have the highpass at about 40hz, and the lowpass around 16K. The EQ and OD together make all the difference with this amp, especially for metal tones in a live situation.


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## MrPowers (May 27, 2013)

I third going for the EL34's. I really liked them when I had a Triple.

As for speakers, perhaps look for a front loaded Celestion g12K100 or Eminence Delta Pro 12A or Swamp Thang to tame the highs.


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

I'm definitely planing on changing out the 6L6s. You all obviously like the EL34s. Have any of you tried KT88s or EL34Ls? Is there much of a difference between the EL34 and EL34L.

Do the Orange 2x12s have the same kind of tone as the Orange 4x12s? I don't want to get another 4x12.


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## Yo_Wattup (May 27, 2013)

O. M. G. Tubescreamer


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

Yo_Wattup said:


> O. M. G. Tubescreamer



The BYOC kit has many overdrives in one. One of them is the tube screamer.


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## Choop (May 27, 2013)

saxman42 said:


> I'm definitely planing on changing out the 6L6s. You all obviously like the EL34s. Have any of you tried KT88s or EL34Ls? Is there much of a difference between the EL34 and EL34L.
> 
> Do the Orange 2x12s have the same kind of tone as the Orange 4x12s? I don't want to get another 4x12.



Haven't tried kt88s, but kt77s are of the el34 family and are probably my favorite tubes ever. \m/

They have a tight and punchy low end character (moreso than el34s..think more like 6l6), but still have that mids-presence like el34s.


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## Leuchty (May 27, 2013)

Are you using Tube Rectifier or Silicone Diode?

Where is your BASS set at?

What Pickups are you running?

What mode (Raw, Vintage, Modern)?

Try: ch. 3, Vintage mode, Bass set to 9 o'clock, Gain set to 12 o'clock.


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

CYBERSYN said:


> Are you using Tube Rectifier or Silicone Diode?
> 
> Where is your BASS set at?
> 
> ...



I don't have specific settings I use for everything. I've tweaked things around a lot and have tried just about everything, but I'm usually playing on the Modern or Vintage setting on the 3rd channel most of the time. I like the punchiness of the Modern, but it feels fairly muddle and a little bit fizzy on the low end. I like the mids of the Vintage, but it gets extremely fizzy with presence turned up past 1 o'clock. I use Seymour Duncan Distortions.


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## Shaman (May 27, 2013)

I've been using Recto's for almost ten years now, and a good trick to make things smoother and tighter is this: lower the presence to 9o'clock on the orange channel (on a 3channel head) and use more treble to compensate.

For some reason that seems to make the amp tighter, smoother and a more pleasent midrange when using the modern mode. It gets rid of the fizz as well! Bass at about 8-9o'clock as well, depending on your cab.

I don't use the red channel all that much, because of the insane amounts of presence it has, I usually stick to the orange channel.

Of course a good od pedal will tighten things up as well, especially when tuning low.


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## kylendm (May 27, 2013)

^
Truth.


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

I've actually been noticing the same thing lately. It didn't make a lot of sense to me, but I guess it works!


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

Any experience with Vader Cabs? I found someone selling a 2x12 with the spray on finish in perfect shape for $260.


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## damico529 (May 27, 2013)

saxman42 said:


> Any experience with Vader Cabs? I found someone selling a 2x12 with the spray on finish in perfect shape for $260.


 
Do it, those are really nice cabs.


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## saxman42 (May 27, 2013)

damico529 said:


> Do it, those are really nice cabs.



Awesome! That's all I needed to hear. Worse comes to worse, I can always put new speakers in it if the ones in there don't get the sound I'm looking for.


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## Pav (May 27, 2013)

I prefer 6L6's.


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## kylendm (May 27, 2013)

Turning down the presence and upping the treble to get an amp tighter is actually something Dave from BCA told me. I'm just not sure why it works.


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## saxman42 (May 28, 2013)

How does the sound of a KT88/6550 or EL34 vary from a 6l6? I have a whole box of 6550s I can try out, but I haven't gotten around to testing them yet.


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## TRENCHLORD (May 28, 2013)

In the rectos I really like the 6L6 better, although the EL34s are very enjoyable as well for their hotter mids.

6L6s sound much wider in spectrum with a huge and lively low-end that extends down much lower.
They also produce a crisper more detailed presence IMO.
Mids are thick but balanced and less aggressive than with EL34s or 6550s.

EL34s are more focused and sharper sounding with a richer meaner upper-midrange, and a higher-pitched tighter bass. 
The highs are sharper but don't extend up as far, which is good if you don't like the sizzle-fizz. 

6550s are more balanced in the mids than ELs, but still very clear, and they also have a big low-end which remains more focused and solid than the 6L6s.

A good portion of the tonal differences between various tube types end up being balanced out when we EQ the amp in an attempt to achieve our normal desired tone.

Remember that the Mesa is fixed bias, so unless they are Mesa branded tubes you should look very closely into the grading of the pairs and how they match the amp's factory settings.


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## guitarfishbay (May 28, 2013)

kylendm said:


> Turning down the presence and upping the treble to get an amp tighter is actually something Dave from BCA told me. I'm just not sure why it works.


 
I've not read the regular Recto manual, but as a Roadster owner - it tells you this happens in the manual.

The Treble control is the key to voicing the whole amp, more so than any other amp I've used. Run the treble low and the bass increases, run the treble high and the bass decreases.

The signal passes through the treble control first, and the higher you run the treble control the less signal goes to mids and bass. The presence control is really useful here for balancing the highs - you can run it lower to balance the top end of a brighter/tighter sound from running the treble high.


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## Leuchty (May 28, 2013)

Mesa manuals are really great.

Reading them really helps to understand HOW the thing works.


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## Mega-Mads (May 28, 2013)

Or, just understand that tube rectifier mode & bold setting is the way to go


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## protest (May 28, 2013)

An EQ in the loop will help a lot, but there's a couple things to do first.

Does your OD pedal have any type of EQ on it? The Digitech one I have has a Low and High knob, and raising the high helps tighten things up. If it has a tone control, mess around with that while chugging to see how it affects the overall tone.

The fizz is probably coming from the Presence, which on the 3rd channel is extremely different than the 2nd. Presence at 5:30 on the 2nd Channel = 10:00 on the 3rd. So you have to roll the presence almost completely off when using the 3rd channel, and then compensate with the Treble. 

The Gain, Treble, and Presence knobs are the most important. You want to keep the gain around 12:00-2:00. Once you go past 2:00 the tone controls have less effect. Since you're using a boost try keeping the Gain lower, around 12:00 maybe. Put the Treble slightly higher than the Gain, maybe around 1:00, and then keep the Presence at or below 9:00. Then you can move on to the Mids and Bass. Put the Mids wherever, and then put the bass down, and bring it up until you hear the flubbyness start, and then put it back down a little...hopefully that gives you a decent starting point, and you can fine tune everything from there.

Also, you can go to Mesa's site, and they should have the manuals available online. They only take a few minutes to read through, but there's a lot of helpful info in them.


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## Jayd41 (May 29, 2013)

Mega-Mads said:


> Or, just understand that tube rectifier mode & bold setting is the way to go


The silicone diode rectification mode is actually tighter, but you are dead on about bold.


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## TheKindred (May 29, 2013)

AFAIK the 3rd channel is almost exactly the same as the 2nd _except_ for the presence. Essentially where the 2nd channel maxes out is where the 3rd starts.


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## saxman42 (May 29, 2013)

Jayd41 said:


> The silicone diode rectification mode is actually tighter, but you are dead on about bold.



I agree, but I'm torn because the tube rectification is a lot less fizzy and in your face. I think every tone setting on this amp has it's place.


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## saxman42 (May 29, 2013)

I think I may have found the cause for excessive fizziness... I've been testing all of my tubes and a couple of the 12AX7s clock in around 55%.


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## Mega-Mads (May 29, 2013)

Jayd41 said:


> The silicone diode rectification mode is actually tighter, but you are dead on about bold.



I used that before, but i really think that the amp sounds much nicer on tube rec mode. if you turn up that beast, it tends to sound a bit more boxy on silicon mode  But its all a matter of taste and musical direction


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## saxman42 (Jun 16, 2013)

I know I started this thread a while ago, but I just wanted to follow up. I bought a Vader 2x12 and it is amazing! I personally think it gets a much better sound than the rectifier cab I had. It's much tighter and just as punchy.

I would definitely recommend this to anyone looking for a good 2x12!


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## saxman42 (Jun 16, 2013)

I also forgot to mention that I'm now running my Dual Rectifier on two JJ KT77s instead of the stock 6l6s. The KT77s are MUCH tighter and give a hint of that Marshall crunch. Removing two power tubes and a rectifier tube helped me turn the amp up a bit more at home, too.


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## owenreesmusic (Jun 16, 2013)

TS808 will do nicely!!! Even with minimal gain, it will tighten up that tone. I hate to say this, and i will never repeat it, but that makes it 'djent' a bit.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jun 16, 2013)

Pav said:


> I prefer 6L6's.



Me too. I tried the el34s in my dual rec and it felt neutered. It almost stopped being a recto at that point to me, I missed the punchy low end.

A Boss super overdrive tightens mine up nicely.


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## saxman42 (Jun 21, 2013)

owenreesmusic said:


> TS808 will do nicely!!! Even with minimal gain, it will tighten up that tone. I hate to say this, and i will never repeat it, but that makes it 'djent' a bit.


 
I'm pretty sure one of the settings on the BYOC Overdrive II that I use is a TS-808 clone. I use the TS-9 setting most of the time. That usually helps a lot. It can just get a bit scratchy and trebley sometimes.


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## tedtan (Jun 21, 2013)

The TS-808 has a little more low end and low mids than the TS9. It's not a big difference on a high gain amp/channel, but you can hear it. The difference becomes more obvious when pushing a clean amp into breakup for bluesy stuff and lower gain situations.


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## MF_Kitten (Jun 21, 2013)

I think the trick with dual rectos is that the EQ is also pre-distortion, so if you use less bass on the EQ knobs, you'll get it tighter. You can get a simple parametric EQ with a band or two to fine tune the tone too, and add more low end and stuff after the distortion.


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