# Unoriginal riffs



## filipe (Apr 17, 2014)

Hello guys first of all I dont know if this is the right section to post this thread sorry if its not in the right section, second I have a problem while I am trying to write a song, every single riff I "create" sounds unoriginal and unprofessional to me, should I have some more music theory to improve my writting skills? Thanks btw


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 17, 2014)

Could you share some of your riffs with us? I can give you some advice if I can hear where you're coming from.


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## Varcolac (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm going to go with "yes."

Music theory is basically pattern recognition. If you're making riffs that sound unoriginal, you may be copying too much from what you've heard without looking at what goes into it. If you're making riffs that sound unprofessional, you may not be putting together coherent musical statements that hang together. 

Either way, these seem to be symptoms of trying for a "surface" structure of a riff without a grasp of what makes up the underlying melody/harmony. Some of these things can become instinctive over time, but they're very useful to keep in mind so you can either drag your "unprofessional" ideas towards the light, or start out knowing what structure you're aiming for and so make it easier to get there.

It's the spelling and grammar of music. For example:

i cd writ lk ths but u dnt gnna unnerstan wat im sayin & it luks riley unprofesunal.

Or I could write like this. More professional? Certainly. 

It's difficult to know what's unprofessional or unoriginal without hearing or seeing it, but I'd definitely say that music theory would help.

With that in mind, search for posts by Mr. Big Noodles. He is the theory übermensch on this forum. Riffs are just big old catchy melodies made of GUITAR and RAWR, so here's a recent post of his that deals with writing them.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3962473-post16.html


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## Der JD (Apr 17, 2014)

I wouldn't beat yourself up for creating riffs that are "unoriginal". The idea that "everything has to sound 100% original or it sucks" is just internet BS- my pecker is bigger than yours type crap. Is it even really possible? Tough to do something in a style that someone hasn't done before. Most of the music I create sounds like stuff that's been done before by my favorite artists. And you know what? I don't care. I like it. It's what I like listening to. Writing music that YOU enjoy is the point. 

However, you saying that your riffs sound "unprofessional" raises some concerns. Obviously, you're not enjoying what you've written. Unprofessional in what ways? Do they really sound unprofessional or it just a lack of confidence in your own skills. Many of us listen to our own music and think, "Meh, it's not that great...not nearly as good as (insert band here)". I know it's something I'm guilty of. But, a lot of the time when someone else hears it they have a much higher opinion.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 17, 2014)

All my riffs sound like someone else to me. It's usually because when I'm writing, I hear my own ideas, but I'm also sometimes focused WAY too hard on whether or not it souds even remotely like someone else's song. But then I pop in a couple CDs and listen and I realize that a lot of the bands I like have riffs that sound like riffs in songs from other bands I like but they're completely different songs.

There are a finite number of notes to choose from assuming we're working with the 12 tone system. You're bound to use some of the same ones in similar patterns as others eventually. 

EDIT: What the guy below me said is also great advice. The more I write music, the more I like my own music. When I was doing it before it was like I always had great ideas, but they never really ended up coming out the way I heard them in my head or I'd end up simplifying them into something that sounded "unoriginal" for lack of ability to play what I heard. It's just like learning to draw. You see a man and you draw a stick figure until you get more comfortable with drawing the curves that make up a person's face, body, etc. Likewise, you kind of have to just keep writing until you learn to accurately translate your thoughts and ideas through your fingers... Like typing...


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## xfkx (Apr 17, 2014)

Just write a lot more and everything will fall into place. You need to constantly build and refine your method of music composition, not apply someone elses

Knowing music theory is a whole different thing altogether, and it doesn't hurt to know it, but don't become too obsessed as if it's a golden key to anything


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## Musiscience (Apr 17, 2014)

Der JD said:


> I wouldn't beat yourself up for creating riffs that are "unoriginal". The idea that "everything has to sound 100% original or it sucks" is just internet BS- my pecker is bigger than yours type crap. Is it even really possible? Tough to do something in a style that someone hasn't done before. Most of the music I create sounds like stuff that's been done before by my favorite artists. And you know what? I don't care. I like it. It's what I like listening to. Writing music that YOU enjoy is the point.
> 
> However, you saying that your riffs sound "unprofessional" raises some concerns. Obviously, you're not enjoying what you've written. Unprofessional in what ways? Do they really sound unprofessional or it just a lack of confidence in your own skills. Many of us listen to our own music and think, "Meh, it's not that great...not nearly as good as (insert band here)". I know it's something I'm guilty of. But, a lot of the time when someone else hears it they have a much higher opinion.



This post is gold. Opinions about your own work is never equal to the vision others will have of it, that is just a fact. But we can't help but think that everyone will have the same opinion we have.


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## sage (Apr 17, 2014)

Go draw a nice rose without looking at any roses. Does it kinda suck? Probably (unless you're already really good at drawing roses). Now draw 800 more. Are the last 100 or so starting to look like something loosely approximating art? Sweet. Now look up some basic artistic techniques like shading and perspective. Draw another 100 roses. Looking even better?

It's all in repetition and learning your craft.


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## filipe (Apr 17, 2014)

Thanks all for your help I guess I need to keep writting and enjoying my music the problem is that everything I write doesnt seem as good as the riffs from other bands atleast in my opinion


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 17, 2014)

They won't until you become comfortable with your own musical voice. It'll happen.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 17, 2014)

^ I don't know about that. It is possible to write incredibly derivative music that is still very good. And imitation is how one learns and gets good in art.



filipe said:


> Thanks all for your help I guess I need to keep writting and enjoying my music



You can still write 1000 shitty riffs and never advance. Enjoyment through familiarity is hardly objective.



> the problem is that everything I write doesnt seem as good as the riffs from other bands atleast in my opinion



You need to learn to hear critically. That skill is essential for an artist. If you have a riff you can show us, we can help you out. As it is right now, everybody is spouting their opinion on originality and artistic improvement, which is fine, but how does that help your case specifically? I can say, "Yes, learn music theory," but how far is that going to get you? What books are you going to buy? Which websites will you visit? Are you going to start at the beginning and go on a good path, or get caught in the trap of modes and run into a dead end as too many musicians do? What are your interests? What are your goals? As a musician, where are you coming from?


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## sage (Apr 17, 2014)

Are you playing with any other musicians? It helps to surround yourself with players better than yourself. I'm currently working with a guitarist that is so fast that it's a challenge for me to keep up with him. That dynamic is extremely helpful for me and I am becoming a far better, faster, and cleaner guitarist as a result. It's also spurring me on creatively as his writing takes so little from my understanding of music theory that I have to really think outside the box to be able to write parts that mesh well with what's going on rhythmically and melodically.

So, yeah. Work with some other dudes who are getting quality results. And steal their riffs.


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## filipe (Apr 17, 2014)

Where do I upload the mp3 file for you guys to hear the riffs?


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## Scrubface05 (Apr 17, 2014)




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## crankyrayhanky (Apr 17, 2014)

Konfyouzd said:


> The more I write music, the more I like my own music.


True. Once every decade or so I join a cover band just to jam; the more covers I play, the more my original thoughts sound derivative. It's good to be inspired by stuff, but it's also good to turn it all off and only listen to your own jams via audio/video.


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## noUser01 (Apr 17, 2014)

First thing you need to learn is how to turn that "this is shit" feeling off. You need to train yourself to stop caring about how it sounds, and just learn how to write a riff without constantly stopping yourself every time you add a note, going "nope, that sucks" all the time. Just turn that off for a minute, and write a riff.

Secondly you need to keep writing. Just keep practicing, even if you feel like you're not getting any better. Songwriting - like anything else in music - really requires extensive practice to get good at it. One thing I've been doing lately is writing one riff per day for my band, just to get the creative juices flowing and develop that skill while also learning how to write for that specific musical style. Some of the riffs I'm come up with this week are just insanely good (in my opinion), and a lot of them are garbage too, but over time I'm finding more gems and less duds.

And thirdly, give yourself curve balls. Start with some sort of idea, or even a musical "challenge". For example, I play deathcore so every time I'm songwriting and I know "okay we should have a breakdown here" I get frustrated because breakdowns are so generic and over-saturated that I find it hard to write anything that sounds interesting and isn't just random chugging. In a case like this, I'll give myself a challenge and say "Write a breakdown that involves harmonies of some kind" or "Write a breakdown that has a really strong melody as the focus". Take things that don't usually go together (or haven't been done a lot) and try and make it work. The greatest riffs I've written usually come out of the "challenge" approach to songwriting.

And lastly don't always think of guitar as the only instrument. A really generic or boring riff can become something awesome if the drums are doing something interesting. Think about all the instruments and what everyone would be playing during that riff that you wrote. Not only will it help give you more options and ideas, but you'll avoid the classic situation of writing an awesome riff, and having it ruined because you can't figure out what the rest of the band should do so it just sounds awkward.

I hope that helps man, best of luck. We all have this issue and we all go through periods where it comes back and we just can't write at all, so just work at it and keep a positive attitude. You'll make it work!


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## sl0th (Apr 18, 2014)

filipe said:


> Where do I upload the mp3 file for you guys to hear the riffs?



soundcloud.com


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## filipe (Apr 19, 2014)

[sc]https://soundcloud.com/filipep-3/testriffs-1[/sc]
here's some riffs


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## wheresthefbomb (Apr 21, 2014)

I've taken theory education and lessons off and on for years, and while I'm by no means a professional, I gig regularly and the biggest thing for me by FAR was getting other people to play with. Playing with others forces you to wrap your mind around new ideas in the moment in a way that practice and lessons never will. 

I've written riffs dicking off at practice that our drummer or bassist started playing off of and wankeriffic chugging becomes a titillating textural experience. I'm the kind of person who needs a fire under my ass to get things done. I couldn't keep myself motivated to be practicing and learning when I didn't have anyone to play with, but now I have people who depend on me and if I'm not practicing our songs and pushing my writing all the time it really shows. I hope this is helpful to your situation.


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## nicomortem (May 2, 2014)

How long have you been playing guitar, how long have you been writing riffs? Because sometimes it just takes experience and time, and unfortunately it often means that you have to write a bunch of generic, unimpressive and boring music for a few years that eventually evolves into something that you can be proud of. Also, something to consider: do you think all the bands you listen to are writing riffs that sound like all the bands that they listen to? Because chances are, the guys in the bands you listen to were influenced by metal bands that don't sound like the band that they went on to form, and instead of drawing influences from other bands that were current at the time, they had to draw their influences from somewhere else in order to offer up something new and different than all the bands that they listen to. And many times, by the time you get a real band together and you're writing original riffs and songs that you are proud of, its been years since the bands who influenced you came out, and now you're faced with the challenge of making music that sounds new, fresh, original, and relevant, without playing like/sounding like other bands that are around at the same time! Ugh, good luck!


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## Icecold (May 3, 2014)

filipe said:


> [sc]https://soundcloud.com/filipep-3/testriffs-1[/sc]
> here's some riffs




There is nothing I can really add to the thread that hasn't already been well put by everyone else, but I did listen to your track. 

It sounds like you know what you are going for and you have the tools to convey that, I feel those are two really important things to have down. 
The next is, and don't take this the wrong way, but I think it is relevant to this thread, and that is your playing like you're scared to make something "bad". I've done that exact thing, and still do. I have to constantly remind myself to make something with a reckless abandon. When I have that mindset my writing and playing comes out much better, and with conviction. 

So with that said, when you have your DAW or tabbing program open, whatever it is that you use to write, just go for it. If you feel like what you're making "sucks" or not feeling it, then move onto the next, but keep the creative juices flowing. Keep digging and you will hit oil. If you get discouraged, look at the time you spent as Practice, either playing or writing. 

None of us started out knowing how to write music, play guitar, mix, but after years of honing the craft everyone makes progress as long as they stick to it and still enjoy it.

Lastly, don't worry about sounding "Original". In time, the things that make you who you are will come out if you let it.


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## OmegaSlayer (May 3, 2014)

If you write something with one voicing you'll probably hit the wall of things you just heard already.
How you arrange the other instrument/voicing will make the huge difference.

About the intro, it reminded me When The Sun Burns Red from Kreator.
Listen how they expand onto the arpeggio idea.


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## Jax_X (May 13, 2014)

filipe said:


> [sc]https://soundcloud.com/filipep-3/testriffs-1[/sc]
> here's some riffs



First I'd like to mention that although you might not like it and think it's not original or not professional, I actually do like it. So thanks and job well done^^

One other thing I want to add, which I think others haven't already said directly:

Learning to play songs, riffs, solos for me is really important as it teaches me a lot of new vocabulary. Of course it helps if you learn stuff that's reasonably unfamiliar to you, so you maximize the amount of new stuff you learn. It's similar to learning music theory, I guess.


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## filipe (May 17, 2014)

Thanks guys for all your tips I actually feel more confident now about my riffs and I think they are sounding more original to me so I tested them in this song
[sc]https://soundcloud.com/filipep-3/awaken[/sc]


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## TremontiFan16 (May 17, 2014)

I listened to both your test and awakened sound clips-Very good.
One thing I would like to add is try to add some intervals/space in your rhythm playing to spice things up on that end a little.Thats my only thing to say,you are a good player and pretty good at recording as well.
Reason you may feel this way as well is you may be hitting a riff drought-where you feel like you play unoriginal and all the same stuff.Dont be afraid to stick the guitar down for a few days or a week.
Glad your feeling better about it now.


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## filipe (May 17, 2014)

Thank you for your words I'm going to follow your tips


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## aheadofmetal (Jun 25, 2014)

I dunno man I think your sound is pretty original actually. Just keep writing and never stop is my advice!


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## TaP (Jun 26, 2014)

I loved that, what are you talking about man? Be confident! It was actually really good! There's nothing to NOT like about those to be honest... They were clean first of all, so that's the FIRST step in sounding professional IMO. & they were badass! Two things I absolutely adore <3.


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## filipe (Jun 28, 2014)

oh thank you for the kind words they made me so happy right now


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