# Using 12 Tone Row/Serialism in Metal



## Prydogga (Oct 7, 2010)

Has anyone here ever tried it? I've become rather fond of Schoenberg's 12 tone idea and I want to try using it in metal (I was thinking something similar to clean passages in TesseracT tunes.) 

I don't think I've ever hear it, anyone here got any examples of bands that have used it, or has anyone them self used it?


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## bostjan (Oct 7, 2010)

Buckethead, on occassion.

I got into serialism years ago, but honestly, I think it's an art-for-art's-sake kind of idea, and would not recommend trying to use it for more than a single movement in a song to build tension.

A lot of Death Metal comes close, but there aren't any examples of strict serialism that come to mind.


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## Prydogga (Oct 7, 2010)

Of course I wouldn't be strict, but for a haunting ambience I think it would fit.

I happen to like the sound alot, usually some good melodic phrases can be found just be experimenting in the row, which is funny, because that's not the intention of it at all.


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## bostjan (Oct 7, 2010)

In that case, a song that comes to mind, which isn't composed by serialism, but seems somewhat serialistic when picked apart is "The Flash and the Power it Holds" off of Death's "The Sound of Perservance." Tons of chromatic stuff going on in that song- Also check out "Oscillation Cycles" off of "The Mechanations of Dementia" from Blotted Science.


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## Prydogga (Oct 7, 2010)

Blotted Science always seems to pop up in my quest for alternative ways of doing metal (IE: not Harmonic and Algerian minor )

Thanks for the recommendations!


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## Winspear (Oct 7, 2010)

Definately a good idea - it would work. I find that the relationship between different tone rows does make them 'melodic' and memorable. A lot more so than extreme metal made up of actual random notes.


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## AvantGuardian (Oct 7, 2010)

I was going to say Blotted Science as well. Here's a little copy and paste from the FAQ on Ron Jarzombek's website:




> Q. What is 'The Circle Of 12 Tones'?
> I came up with this cool way to make up tunes using a method where you take the 12 tones and scatter, them on a &#8220;clock&#8221;, and use different patterns that are formed. There are all sorts of various ways to arrange notes on a clock and tons of different patterns that you can get, and it all makes for very interesting sets of notes being grouped together. It must be a good way to compose because I&#8217;d say 75% of the Blotted CD uses it. On the DVDs that I&#8217;m working on right now, the 2nd DVD will explain it thoroughly and give lots examples. I&#8217;ll probably explain and play maybe 4 or 5 songs from the Blotted CD. I&#8217;ve been using different forms of writing with 12 tones since &#8216;Nighty-Nite&#8217; on my first solo CD. It then evolved into what I call &#8217;12 tone sets&#8217;, then came &#8216;multiple 12 tone sets&#8217;, then &#8216;modulating multiple 12 tone sets&#8217;. The catch with the system is you have to know &#8216;normal&#8217; music theory to get the most out of it. I just got tired of using normal methods, and wanted to delve into something else that would give me different tonalities, and I got it.


 
I wish he'd explained it a little more there, but apparently he's working on some DVDs talking about how this system works. I've been hearing about the DVDs for a looooong time though, so who knows if it'll ever see the light of day. Also, if you're interested in studying twelve tone/serial composition, check out the book "Simple Composition" by Charles Wuorinen. It has tons of great exercises and ideas in it that could easily be applied to metal.


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## Holy Katana (Oct 7, 2010)

Ron has some articles on his site about how it works. I remember reading them three or four years ago.


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## Prydogga (Oct 8, 2010)

AvantGuardian said:


> Also, if you're interested in studying twelve tone/serial composition, check out the book "Simple Composition" by Charles Wuorinen. It has tons of great exercises and ideas in it that could easily be applied to metal.



Thanks, I've only scratched the surface of 12 tone, so it'll be good to see some more things that are possible.


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## Holy Katana (Oct 8, 2010)

Bear in mind that serialist music is, at least in my opinion, harder to compose than just about anything else. It's incredibly difficult to make it sound like actual music, instead of sounding like an academic exercise, or that it's trying too hard to sound dissonant. That's why I have enormous amounts of respect for the composers who manage to make it work.


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## Prydogga (Oct 8, 2010)

Hence why I want to give it a try, just to see what's possible. And yes, I have alot of respect for those who can create masterpieces from it.


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## getaway_fromme (Oct 17, 2010)

All of the clean parts on Meshuggahs Catch 33 wreak of serialism, but I assume they were just messing around...

Also, if you're trying to go for that sound in your own writing, try using melodic lines in one key over whatever harmony you have, and shift the melody into another key - via "bitonality" Darius Milhaud is the innovator - cool shit. 

You can also just pick non-chord tones and throw them in your "tonal" chord structure. That's how Chino of the deftones does. It doesn't always work lol but sounds cool!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2010)




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## mcmurray (Oct 19, 2010)

bostjan said:


> Buckethead, on occassion.



Can you give us an example?

cheers


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## bostjan (Oct 19, 2010)

mcmurray said:


> Can you give us an example?
> 
> cheers



Just did a quick google search: One Tooth of the Time Train starting around 1:35 has a few passages that are serialist. I do not think that Buckethead has an entire song composed this way, but he does seem to use it to come up with some small licks here and there, though usually not in the strictest sense.


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## Waelstrum (Oct 19, 2010)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...oenberg-atonal-serial-groovy-black-metal.html


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## anne (Oct 19, 2010)

Haha, thanks. Was about to link that! Rawrrrr.



Holy Katana said:


> Bear in mind that serialist music is, at least in my opinion, harder to compose than just about anything else. It's incredibly difficult to make it sound like actual music, instead of sounding like an academic exercise, or that it's trying too hard to sound dissonant. That's why I have enormous amounts of respect for the composers who manage to make it work.



One technique is to break the row up into chords and use them to emphasize certain harmonies. The row for Love has a couple [0 1 3] chords in it that I used a lot. Also [0 3 5], so both of those can sound kind of diatonic. What makes it sound more intelligible melodically is a flowing sense of rhythm -- just pretend the notes make sense diatonically and it can sound convincing enough.


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