# Lookin for the 5150 of bass amps?



## Gmork (Jan 24, 2020)

Lookin for a bass equivalent of the 5150, NOT in tone but more like, what is the classic affordable, reliable GO TO bass amp?
Something cheap ($500-$700ish), high powered for metal and super tough and reliable.
Im mainly a guitarist and am pretty clueless when it comes to bass gear but would like a decent bass amp for the times i dust off my old 6 string bass.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 24, 2020)

You could just use a 5150...


----------



## Gmork (Jan 24, 2020)

bostjan said:


> You could just use a 5150...


But... Im looking for a bass amp. 
I dont mean to say im looking for a bass amp that SOUNDS like a 5150, Im just asking what the go to amp is in the bass world?


----------



## budda (Jan 24, 2020)

SVT3? GK MB500? GK RB800?


----------



## DudeManBrother (Jan 24, 2020)

The Ampeg SVT is the one, but they’re not cheap. I have seen a lot of Gallien Kreuger and Trace Elliot stuff at shows, but I’d say that mass majority run a Tech 21 Sansamp or Darkglass pedal as their main tone shaper.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 24, 2020)

Gmork said:


> But... Im looking for a bass amp.
> I dont mean to say im looking for a bass amp that SOUNDS like a 5150, Im just asking what the go to amp is in the bass world?


Lots of bass players use a 5150, though.

There really isn't an equivalent, in terms of popularity in metal.

Bass gear is super cheap and there is a lot less variety in terms of options. That Ampeg SVT Classic all tube bass head that weighs 100 pounds (yes the head weighs as much as a guitar cab) and costs 4x as much as a 5150 is really nice, but, IMO, also unnecessary, for heavy music at least.

For a while SWR was the goto amp and cab for metal, but they are long gone.

You can get a whole Behringer rig for under your budget, and it'll do pretty much what you need for metal.

Are you using distortion or playing cleanish? Is this for playing on the road in a band? If so, what is the guitarist using?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 25, 2020)

Gallien Krueger 700RB or 1001RB. 800RB if you can find one, too. PROBABLY The Aguilar Tonehammer series as well. I think Mesa bass amps pop up in that price range as well used.

I've also seen people rock Sansamps (RPM, RBI, VT bass, or just the standard BDDI) or Darkglass into power amps and then that into their bass cabs.

EDIT: You bring up Peavey. They have a SHIIIIT TON of bass amps they made that pop up under $700.


----------



## Avedas (Jan 25, 2020)

bostjan said:


> Lots of bass players use a 5150, though.
> 
> There really isn't an equivalent, in terms of popularity in metal.
> 
> ...


How can a head possibly be so heavy? Do they put an 80 lb dumbbell inside of it?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2020)

Avedas said:


> How can a head possibly be so heavy? Do they put an 80 lb dumbbell inside of it?



Mine weighs just over 75lbs. The power amp on these things (and associated transformers) is massive and the headshell is pretty substantial, needing the space for six 6550 tubes.

That's why I usually use the V4B, which is nearly identical, but 100 watts. It weighs half as much, so similar to most tube guitar heads of the same size.

For reference, a 5150, Triple Rec, and JCM800 all weigh between 45lbs and 50lbs.

But, luckily, the classic "SVT sound" has been pretty much broken down into a pedal for decades: the SansAmp. So that's what I always recommend for folks on a budget and don't want a monster rig. They're cheap, readily available, and they make a variant for just about any use case, from the bare bones classic or smaller character series, to the giant deluxe models. Put it through whatever cheap, big power amp and cab setup you feel like buying.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 25, 2020)

Ampeg SVT II or SVT II Pro. Maybe Gallien Kruger 800rb. But probably either Ampeg.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 25, 2020)

Avedas said:


> How can a head possibly be so heavy? Do they put an 80 lb dumbbell inside of it?



My dad had an older one. The two transformers in it are massive, about 20-25 lbs each. Maybe they've gotten lighter recently (google "ampeg svt classic weight" - i found resuls 80-85 pounds), but part of the appeal of it was how overbuilt it was, probably... 

He had a homemade cab with two custom ordered 24" subs, too. I would volunteer to help carry the cab with three other guys to avoid having to try to lug that head with one other person.

If anybody wants "that bass tone," the SVT Classic and the 8x10" cab were traditionally how you got there. Nowadays, I see (not metal) bands that plug the bass into a DI box and then right into the mixing board, and the bass sounds great. Meanwhile, metal bands are showing up to gigs where I'm doing sound, and they're almost alway lugging either:
1. A guitar head and 4x12" cab
2. Super heavy vintage gear, or
3. Something super compact by a brand I never paid attention to.

But these are 90% bands from northern New England, who don't make much money and either had to pawn their girlfriend's jewelry (probably) for an amp or inherited gear from a dead relative in MA or CT.


----------



## olejason (Jan 25, 2020)

Darkglass, Aguilar, Mesa, & GK are all very popular at the moment among bassists. You'll see a lot of Orange, SUNN, Peavey, etc. in the doom metal world.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 25, 2020)

My SVT-II feels every bit the 90 pounds the manual said it weighs. It's nearly as hard to move as the 8x10 cab. I assume all the weight is in the transformers.

I have an old Mesa Mark short head that looks so tiny, but the power transformer is absurdly large, and it feels like the darn thing is bolted down when you go to move it. I've never held only a transformer in my hand, but I'm assuming they are quite heavy.

For a lighter bass amp, but one considered a tried-and-true metal classic, the 800rb would be the way to go IMHO. Sounds fantastic.


----------



## budda (Jan 25, 2020)

Forgot about Acoustic amps! Vintage solid state, not too expensive.


----------



## hord (Jan 25, 2020)

I would argue there isn't really a 5150 of the bass world.

Some might argue the Ampeg SVT, but those are expensive and no one really owns them. Most of the pre-amps that get close to an SVT are also above your price range so they don't count. The main Ampeg line is pretty good but starts at your upper end unless you want to go used. The Portaflex heads are cheaper and very good but don't have the true SVT vibe. The 4-PRO is probably the closest you'd get but even used they are pretty expensive.

Outside of that, there are a lot of other tone-stacks in the bass world that work well with metal.

Aguilar - The AG-500/700 is a good clean choice and would be a good pedal platform for distortion but the Tone Hammer line is a better choice for grittier sounds. Aguilars always seem voiced with more mids, nice lows but not super tight and good even highs. You'll also get more overall tone variation out of the Tone Hammers.

GK, Genz-Benz, Genzler, Darkglass - These are all voiced to be more "modern" and always sound tighter and punchier overall while starting from a more neutral voicing. They will also offer more variation in tone shaping than many other manufacturers. The Darkglass amps are basically the pedals plus a class-D power section so you could start with those and either get a power amp or use the effects loop on a guitar amp (be careful).

Mesa - Another Ampeg-class manufacturer in the bass world although with a different voicing and fan bass. Their amps are world-class, generally tubey sounding with a range of modern to classic vibes along with grit. They don't have the deep-bass sparkle of the SVT but offer tons of low-end punch.

What I personally have been leaning towards lately are just pre-amps going into a dedicated class-D power amp. This is like running a guitar pedal into a PA system and works really well for bass because you can use the pre-amp for practice, recording, live shows with no cabinet, live shows with a cabinet, whatever. I have a Phil Jones BigHead unit and it plugs into my computer via USB so that I can listen to music on it, play bass through it, record to my DAW with it, etc. Plus it fits in my pocket, has rechargeable batteries, and can act as a DI for other pre-amps since it has a dedicate line-in.

Anyway, lots of great options for bass out there right now and there are new products coming out all the time.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 25, 2020)

I'm in the "there's no equivalent" camp. Closest thing is maybe a sansamp into any of those class D type amps, or same thing but replace sansamp with darkglaass.

I feel like just on the basis of how much more common it is to play bass clean, and how different one bass can sound from another, a how each bassist seems to approach tone differently - it seems like every element in the chain has so much more influence than it would in a guitar context (the cab matters, the pickups matter, etc). There's nothing I can point to and say "that's what I think most bassist are aiming for". Lots of people seem to like "the svt tone" but I'm not sure we all agree on what that even means.


----------



## Gmork (Jan 25, 2020)

I typically play very clean with either a very modern scooped type of tone or the super mid "mwah" jaco fretless tone.
And sometimes either of those with a smooth dist/fuzz slightly mixed in behind the clean tone.
I prefer solidstate for its articulation and precise cleanliness. 
I was just curious if the bass world had a go to amp.
Im going to try to buy my friends genz benz shuttle 6 head/combo.
He gad lent me it for a long while and i thought it was great.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jan 25, 2020)

Gmork said:


> I typically play very clean with either a very modern scooped type of tone or the super mid "mwah" jaco fretless tone.
> And sometimes either of those with a smooth dist/fuzz slightly mixed in behind the clean tone.
> I prefer solidstate for its articulation and precise cleanliness.
> I was just curious if the bass world had a go to amp.
> ...



You'd probably *love* a GK RB series amp. It does everything you describe and can be found dirt cheap. 

Try for a 700RB or 1001RB, put it through whatever 410 you can grab. 

Here a stupid good deal on a 2000RB if you don't mind it being ugly: https://www.musicgoround.com/product/41106-S000038196/used-gallien-krueger-2000rb-bass-amplifier

Normally I'd be worried about condition, but MGR has great customer service usually and these things are built like fucking tanks. I've had one fall off a full stack and down the riser and didn't even cut out. 

This 700RB is in better shape and an equally great deal: https://www.musicgoround.com/product/41113-S000022820/used-gallien-krueger-700rb-bass-head-bass-amp


----------



## bostjan (Jan 25, 2020)

Gmork said:


> I typically play very clean with either a very modern scooped type of tone or the super mid "mwah" jaco fretless tone.
> And sometimes either of those with a smooth dist/fuzz slightly mixed in behind the clean tone.
> I prefer solidstate for its articulation and precise cleanliness.
> I was just curious if the bass world had a go to amp.
> ...


That Genz Benz should get you the modern tone by default. Maybe you can dial in a Jaco tone, but it might be a bit of a challenge, IMO.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 25, 2020)

bostjan said:


> You could just use a 5150...


What would the disadvantage to this be? I mean, given the proper cab, is there any reason NOT to use a guitar amp? I know a lot of bass amps are way higher wattage than guitar amps, so I’m guessing headroom is an issue?


----------



## TedEH (Jan 25, 2020)

Headroom is definitely an issue. A lot of guitar amps just can't cut it if you play with a loud drummer. I wouldn't trust a 5150 to deliver a loud clean tone against a metal band. Add that now you're distorting in a similar way, you're just going to be buried in the same kind of distortion everyone else has. I've tried a couple of times using for-guitar tube power amps before (like I tried out a 2:90 for a while) and it mostly does the trick, but if you push it and it distorts, I didn't like the result. Maybe there's some out there that would sound great, but it's not really worth the trial and error (with associated cost) to find out, IMO. 

(The 2:90, driven by an SVT-IIP actually sounded really great right up until you ran out of headroom. Maybe the 2:90 just really doesn't like being pushed?)


----------



## hord (Jan 26, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> What would the disadvantage to this be? I mean, given the proper cab, is there any reason NOT to use a guitar amp? I know a lot of bass amps are way higher wattage than guitar amps, so I’m guessing headroom is an issue?



Headroom and circuit design. Low frequencies require exponentially increasing amounts of energy in order to bloom properly so you not only limit your overall tone by clipping some of the most important parts of your frequency spectrum but you also run the risk of pushing the amp above its load ratings at high volume. Without proper crossovers you will also overdrive the voice coils in speaker cabs and burn them out (been there, done that).

You could probably use a 5150 as a pre-amp into a class-D and be fine but you might still have headroom issues for clean tone and you'd be wasting the power amp tubes on nothing (unless you can turn them off on a 5150). Of course, if that tone is what you are after, that might be a good solution. The modelers seems to do a decent job with bass with these amps but I've never seen it done with real gear live. I feel like it will be application-dependent because I think it would be very easy for bass to get lost in a mix if it were just using a 5150 for its tone.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 26, 2020)

Kartakou Colossus > Mesa Strategy 400/500

There. There's your 5150 bass rig. 

But yeah, I still say get a GK RB. In your case a 1001RB or 2001RB. They're known for having a shit-ton of headroom, but also being able to get a nasty grit when you use the boost on it. The 2001RB actually has a dedicated distortion channel. 

If you want a good example of the GK sound, IIRC Justin Chancellor of Tool has used GK since 2005. He uses the 2001RBs; one clean, one distorted.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 26, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kartakou Colossus > Mesa Strategy 400/500
> 
> There. There's your 5150 bass rig.
> 
> ...



His distortion isn't really coming from the 2001RB, but his tone sounds great. He uses a Turbo Rat and a Tonebender fuzz, among other things, for dirt, often blended with another 2001RB that's clean.

The GK stuff is awesome. Most metal bassists either fall into the Ampeg camp or the GK camp. Can't go wrong either way. If portability and affordability are major concerns, the GK with a sealed cab would be the way to go.


----------



## bostjan (Jan 27, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> What would the disadvantage to this be? I mean, given the proper cab, is there any reason NOT to use a guitar amp? I know a lot of bass amps are way higher wattage than guitar amps, so I’m guessing headroom is an issue?


It actually sounds pretty killer... in very certain circumstances. But bass just needs more wattage to fit well in a mix if there are two (or more) guitars. The more a sine wave breaks up (clipping) the more power goes into upper partials (harmonics), therefore leaving less for the fundamental.

If your band is a three piece with no guitar, playing bass through a 5150 works great.


----------



## Veldar (Jan 29, 2020)

The best bass head for metal? 

Whatever class D head you like and then just run a Darkglass or Sansamp into the front, that's a good 90% of metal/hxcx bass tones


----------



## stevexc (Jan 29, 2020)

Veldar said:


> The best bass head for metal?
> 
> Whatever class D head you like and then just run a Darkglass or Sansamp into the front, that's a good 90% of metal/hxcx bass tones



Pretty much this.

Ubiquitous heavy tone, easily found, not overly expensive... SansAmp or Darkglass, depending on your preference. Run into just about anything. Personally I run a compressor and OD into a SansAmp into a vintage Peavey Mark III.


----------



## TheKindred (Jan 29, 2020)

Peavey Firebass 700 is a solid option. They're not uber heavy , but are still built like tanks. Ton of options, very versatile and can be had for cheap on the used markets.


----------



## TedEH (Jan 29, 2020)

I see a lot of sansamp pres around but I find I've grown out of them. I had an RBI a good while ago and ended up replacing it with an SVT-IIP. The RBI just.... kinda clanked a lot. It didn't sound "bad" but I found that I struggled with it to make it do what I wanted. It didn't distort much, so if you wanted dirt it had to come from elsewhere. It also didn't naturally compress very much. It's a bit on the boring side of bass pres.


----------



## Fun With Dirt (Feb 20, 2020)

I love my Darkglass, but, to be honest, I have only had a year or so experience with them. If I had to get a reliable and rugged amp that sounded great and I had complete confidence on, it would be a GK RB series. I have had several since the early 90's. Never failed to do the trick. There are certainly other reliable amps, but that one I know is reliable and I can get a very good sound out of. I REALLY liked the 400. It would overdrive nicely when pushed. At one point, I actually ran that with an Ampeg guitar amp (VH140C) as a biamp rig. That old Ampeg got a NASTY high gain sound.


----------



## ghostOG (Feb 20, 2020)

Ampeg is the classic bass rig for metal and hard rock... but for modern metal where the bass has a lot more chimey top end and high gain, I like the Hartke LH1000 and HyDrive cabs. It's also in your price range, unlike a lot of other suggestions.


----------



## ghostOG (Feb 20, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> What would the disadvantage to this be? I mean, given the proper cab, is there any reason NOT to use a guitar amp? I know a lot of bass amps are way higher wattage than guitar amps, so I’m guessing headroom is an issue?


Preamp is voiced for guitars and sounds like shit... too much top end, not enough bottom end. But, you can bypass the preamp and just use the power amp if you go straight into the FX loop return and it sounds good... but you need a separate extrenal preamp, because there is no way to control the master volume going straight into the fx return, so the volume will be wiiiide the fuck open if you don't put something in front of it with at least a volume knob.

Guitar cabs are also voiced for guitar and the speakers will fart out if you try to push sub bass through them. I am running a darkglass b7k ultra v2 into the fx return of my 6505+ head, driving a 410 bass cab. It sounds good but I haven't played it at band practice volumes... this setup is just a placeholder until I get an amp head.

All that said, Motorhead and a lot of old timey bass players used guitar amps (Lemmy used a Marshall MG100HGFX guitar amp at one point)... but I wouldn't exactly describe those bands as having heavy brutal bass either. But technically, as long as you roll off some bass so you don't destroy the speakers, and you like the way it sounds for some reason, you can use a guitar amp and cab.


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 20, 2020)

Orange Terror bass?


----------



## Adieu (Feb 20, 2020)

Old Peavey or Carvin for 200 bucks or less


----------



## Avedas (Feb 20, 2020)

ghostOG said:


> because there is no way to control the master volume going straight into the fx return, so the volume will be wiiiide the fuck open if you don't put something in front of it with at least a volume knob.


This depends on the amp model. Whenever I play live or in a studio space somewhere I put my Helix into the FX return of whatever amp they have available. It's always a toss up of whether I'll have to control overall volume with Helix or if I have to adjust the master vol on the amp itself.


----------



## cGoEcYk (Feb 21, 2020)

Tons of great bass amps out there especially with the newer modern options. You'll want some serious cabs (ideally with a "low mids bump" voicing) to play metal at volume with a band since guitars and drums tend to be so loud. Mesa Powerhouse cabs are my favorite, thunderous with clear midrange. In most cases you can add an outboard preamp (Sansamp, Darkglass, etc) to almost any amp for more diversity and to get into decent metal zone. A little overdrive/hair tends to sound great when blended in the mix.

My favorite ~300w tube rigs would be these two, with an outboard pre for more modern tone shaping.

SVT-II (80 lbs, classic Ampeg sound with great OD... think old RATM)
Mesa Bass 400+ (45 lbs, clearer/more defined than the SVT)

Mesa Carbines (especially M9) are not playing around either.

Honorable Mention:

Orange Terror Bass. Kind of a 1-trick pony but great for rock and sludgier sounds


----------



## Fun With Dirt (Feb 21, 2020)

Adieu said:


> Old Peavey...


Definitely killer. I had a Mark VIII way back when and that was a very solid bass amp. Should definitely be able to snag one on the cheap.


----------



## stevexc (Feb 21, 2020)

Fun With Dirt said:


> Definitely killer. I had a Mark VIII way back when and that was a very solid bass amp. Should definitely be able to snag one on the cheap.



Second. I've got a couple of Mark III heads, one of which I scored for the low low price of free, and they're awesome.


----------



## Brutal08 (Mar 3, 2020)

Around here, I would say the 5150 of bass amp is probably the svt4 or the gk rb series
This is mostly what people around our scene seems to be using with some guys switching to darkglass. I recently bought a rb 1001 with a rbh410 to replace my bedroom schredder kit i used live wich was my laptop with neural dsp and direct output im scared that one day my laptop crash live or someone or myself smash the laptop down on the ground...


----------

