# Will the USA and China go to war?



## DiezelMonster (Jul 29, 2022)

I know the last thread I started like this ultimately lead to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

It's clear the USA is fighting some kind of proxy war with Russia but it seems as though things are "heating" up, sorry bad nuclear war pun.

I think there are A LOT of reasons why China and the USA won't engage in a direct war but what if they did?

How fast would it go nuclear? is it all just a bunch of sabre rattling? Is Old man Joe crazy like a fox and would he do it?

Do we need a major war again to work out the economical issues in North America? 

Interesting times to live in...


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## CanserDYI (Jul 29, 2022)

Feels like the USA is closer to war with itself than China.


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## DiezelMonster (Jul 29, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Feels like the USA is closer to war with itself than China.



I don't disagree with you.


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## bostjan (Jul 29, 2022)

China is really pushing to expand its power right now. They have a lunar program, they have a program to conquer the Pacific Ocean, they are friends with Russia, who is at war with Ukraine, who is friends with the USA, and there's all of this tension with Taiwan.

But China is really best at microagressions with other major countries, and they, historically, have not been keen to go to war. As long as the USA basically ignores the war crimes in Ukraine, forgets about the Moon, and doesn't try to fly Pelosi to Taiwan, I think it will be fine, at least for now. China will continue on genociding their own people and dreaming of placing nukes on the Moon, and maybe blind a few USAF pilots with laser beams or fly a few more bombers over Taiwain's coast, but ultimately not engaging in war. But it could all change if Biden mistakes the nuclear football for his lifelock or Putin decides to ultimatim China into pushing the envelope too far or if Pelosi thinks the solution to California's homeless problem is to get her state nuked. And as ridiculous as those all sound, there are hundreds more highly unlikely scenarios that exist. It's really difficult to specifically calculate the risk, but fairly easy to wave a hand and say "nah, probably not."


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## Riff the Road Dog (Jul 29, 2022)

We kind of have been at war with them since the '50s in the proxy sense. The Korean War was really US vs China in the end. There was a cease fire but the war technically never ended.


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## Grindspine (Jul 29, 2022)

I have been seeing reports about bank failures in China. Economic collapse tends to instigate military action, whether internal or external. I am not finding these times so much interesting as frightening. I have studied enough archaeology to know that precursors to empires falling tend to include environmental disasters, epidemics, economic inequality, then finally governmental collapse. Those items can be checked off lists for most countries in the world at the moment. The fall of current regimes does not worry me nearly as much as the power-hungry vultures waiting in the wings to seize what power they can.


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## SpaceDock (Jul 29, 2022)

IMO China does not want war with us. They would pay a very heavy price as we have NATO and their best ally, Russia, is already taxed winning against a country previously thought to be very weak. While China might have a ton of people, we have far greater military power and a much better trained force. Really the USA and China are so reliant on each other for our economies that a real war would be a loser for both of us and the world. I think China starting up something with India or Taiwan is much more likely if/when we got involved it would probably look a lot like how we are helping Ukraine vs us going direct.


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## tedtan (Jul 29, 2022)

China and the US are already involved in a cold war, with the stealing of IP, economic conflict, espionage activity similar to that during the Cold War with the USSR, and so forth, but I don’t think we’ll see it escalate beyond that.


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## philkilla (Jul 29, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I know the last thread I started like this ultimately lead to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
> 
> It's clear the USA is fighting some kind of proxy war with Russia but it seems as though things are "heating" up, sorry bad nuclear war pun.
> 
> ...



I fucking hope not.


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## Adieu (Jul 29, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> We kind of have been at war with them since the '50s in the proxy sense. The Korean War was really US vs China in the end. There was a cease fire but the war technically never ended.



That ended with the interesting reset when we convinced them to backstab the Soviet Union by attacking Vietnam (yes, that was a thing)

The Vietnam thing itself failed gruesomely and spectacularly as conquests go... but several weeks and 100,000+ casualties later, the Soviets and the Chinese were fallen out for good, the Soviet Union was guaranteed to fall since it defaulted on its obligations and everybody knew it, China switched to state-centric capitalism with a clearly fake superthin red veneer, and the USA has been in a secret closet bromance hookup with China ever since.


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## Riff the Road Dog (Jul 30, 2022)

Adieu said:


> That ended with the interesting reset when we convinced them to backstab the Soviet Union by attacking Vietnam (yes, that was a thing)


This is not anything I've ever heard explained before and very difficult for me to find anything about. In all seriousness, do you have any suggestion on where I could find a source to learn more about the China- Russia dynamic during this era? I am very interested.

As for this China/US bromance I think it's pretty clear that China would still never accept any further significant US presence on the Asian continent.


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## Riff the Road Dog (Jul 30, 2022)




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## Adieu (Jul 30, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> This is not anything I've ever heard explained before and very difficult for me to find anything about. In all seriousness, do you have any suggestion on where I could find a source to learn more about the China- Russia dynamic during this era? I am very interested.
> 
> As for this China/US bromance I think it's pretty clear that China would still never accept any further significant US presence on the Asian continent.



Not really

There was clearly a bunch of backchannel plotting that led to China falling out with the other commies and becoming secret buddies with the US, but very little information on HOW that really came about afaik... just events that came out of it

Seems like everybody involved likes to pretend that nothing noteworthy happened


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## Glades (Jul 30, 2022)

As much as I dislike Pelosi, the news of her trip to Taiwan, followed by the threat from China (“playing with fire” comment from CCCP’s secretary) was shocking. That a major superpower threatens another superpower like the US is unacceptable. I hope the administration gives them the bird and flies Pelosi to Taiwan in defiance.


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## Adieu (Jul 30, 2022)

China should just bribe anyone who doesn't want to live in Chinese Taiwan to leave

A shooting war for an island with <2% of mainland China's population would be stupid. Easier to buy it.


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## Kaura (Jul 30, 2022)

I hope not so I can keep buying Chinese Squiers.


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## Glades (Jul 30, 2022)

Adieu said:


> China should just bribe anyone who doesn't want to live in Chinese Taiwan to leave
> 
> A shooting war for an island with <2% of mainland China's population would be stupid. Easier to buy it.


Taiwanese are so different culturally to mainland Chinese, this would be impossible. I was in Taiwan 5 years ago, and I was shocked how culturally different they are from Chinese. From my westerner viewpoint, and my time in East Asian countries, they seemed more Japanese culturally than Chinese, if that makes any sense. It probably has to do with the years of Japanese occupation.
Taiwan will fight til the last man standing. They are very proud of their nation.


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## odibrom (Jul 30, 2022)

Kaura said:


> I hope not so I can keep buying Chinese Squiers.



... you're empowering China this way... that's how they got all western world fucked up... fast and easy money for the corporations getting goods cheaper, no matter the real cost it will take in the long run... bastards.


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## Adieu (Jul 30, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... you're empowering China this way... that's how they got all western world fucked up... fast and easy money for the corporations getting goods cheaper, no matter the real cost it will take in the long run... bastards.



Question is, should we care?

China at least follows the common sense ideal of trying to grow fat and rich and build stuff. That makes it a hell of a lot more likeable than many other unsavory regimes.

Also, I share some sympathy for their quest to eradicate all organized religion as the cancer that it is...although I admit their methods ARE very heavy handed, dark, and distasteful.


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## narad (Jul 30, 2022)

Adieu said:


> Question is, should we care?
> 
> China at least follows the common sense ideal of trying to grow fat and rich and build stuff. That makes it a hell of a lot more likeable than many other unsavory regimes.
> 
> Also, I share some sympathy for their quest to eradicate all organized religion as the cancer that it is...although I admit their methods ARE very heavy handed, dark, and distasteful.


You have to go really far outside the direct path of "grow fat and rich and build stuff" to hunt down Uyghurs.



Glades said:


> Taiwanese are so different culturally to mainland Chinese, this would be impossible. I was in Taiwan 5 years ago, and I was shocked how culturally different they are from Chinese. From my westerner viewpoint, and my time in East Asian countries, they seemed more Japanese culturally than Chinese, if that makes any sense. It probably has to do with the years of Japanese occupation.
> Taiwan will fight til the last man standing. They are very proud of their nation.


Lol, there's absolutely nothing culturally similar to Japan going on there.


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## odibrom (Jul 31, 2022)

Adieu said:


> Question is, should we care?
> 
> China at least follows the common sense ideal of trying to grow fat and rich and build stuff. That makes it a hell of a lot more likeable than many other unsavory regimes.
> 
> Also, I share some sympathy for their quest to eradicate all organized religion as the cancer that it is...although I admit their methods ARE very heavy handed, dark, and distasteful.


Yes, you should. You live in a country that follows the human rights treaty, China does not.

Although I'm not religious, people have the rights to have whatever believes they want or need. There is not right to impose whatever to whomever and that's China doing all over its country.

Make no mistake, I love chinese culture, they have a lot to teach to the world, but I hate their government politics and aggressions agaisnt defenseless people like Uyghurs and Tibetans.

... and this just the cherry on the cake. They are possibly the most bully country in the world presently.


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## mmr007 (Jul 31, 2022)

China will go to war but it won't be with the US because on our current trajectory we will be unable to do anything to stop their aggression and expansion. They own us financially and our society is hooked like morphine addicts on their social media gimmicks, and they and Russia have helped foment the US tearing itself apart at the seams while neo nazi right wing authoritarian figures take up the reins of government here. They will achieve what they want without ever suffering a shot in anger from a 5.56mm...or 6.88 or whatever the fuck you guys were arguing the military will be using. 

But by then it will be too late for Disney's investors


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 31, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> IMO China does not want war with us. They would pay a very heavy price as we have NATO and their best ally, Russia, is already taxed winning against a country previously thought to be very weak. While China might have a ton of people, we have far greater military power and a much better trained force. Really the USA and China are so reliant on each other for our economies that a real war would be a loser for both of us and the world. I think China starting up something with India or Taiwan is much more likely if/when we got involved it would probably look a lot like how we are helping Ukraine vs us going direct.



Yes and no. Ukraine is a very unimportant country in the grand scheme of things. They grow some grains which mostly go to the developing world, and some to Europe. But they have a GDP per capita of like $4,000 per person per year. It's a very poor country. The poorest EU member has GDP per capita 3x higher. 

And while Ukraine are certainly trying to align with the west, they're still rather corrupt and their country was in a state of disarray even before this invasion. So our involvement in Ukraine basically maxes out as "sticking it to Russia" by helping Ukraine to deplete Russian resources (money, soldiers, tanks, missiles) and giving them toys to play with.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is very wealthy, very technologically advanced, and produces a staggering amount of the semiconductors which we need for a huge amount of stuff. If China took that over and had a stranglehold on modern technology, it would be utterly devastating for the United States, Europe and everybody else. It could basically change the entire world order. It would also be a watershed moment that the "age of China" has arrived and the US is officially weak.

Furthermore, Taiwan is ideologically much more aligned with the west, valuing democracy, freedom (for the most part) etc. So if you believe ideology matters in these decisions, that would favour Taiwan also.



Glades said:


> As much as I dislike Pelosi, the news of her trip to Taiwan, followed by the threat from China (“playing with fire” comment from CCCP’s secretary) was shocking. That a major superpower threatens another superpower like the US is unacceptable. I hope the administration gives them the bird and flies Pelosi to Taiwan in defiance.



Well, they've used the phrase in the past and we have called their bluff in the past too.

I think Pelosi should go IF Taiwan actually wants her to. It's really up to them if they think the value of the trip is worth whatever consequence might result. Maybe China will fly more planes to the ADIZ, which would be a low cost. Maybe they'd do something incredibly risky and actually enter Taiwanese airspace. Taiwan would need to have plans of how to react. If they shoot it down, that's a massive escalation. If they don't, it could be perceived as a sign of weakness and China will then keep violating airspace, creating far more dangerous and uncertain scenarios in the future. IMO none of that would be worth it for a simple visit from Pelosi. Something *concrete* like signed agreements, arms deals etc is far more valuable than a symbolic visit.

What Taiwan absolutely doesn't want is to be simply used as a button which the US can push to irritate/troll China. I think that's what Trump was doing, for the most part. I doubt he had much consideration of Taiwan, but he knew he could upset China. That's a very dangerous situation.

You also have some internal stresses in China. Some want Xi out, so him "reuniting" the country would be a massive political win for him.


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 31, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> China will go to war but it won't be with the US because on our current trajectory we will be unable to do anything to stop their aggression and expansion. They own us financially and our society is hooked like morphine addicts on their social media gimmicks, and they and Russia have helped foment the US tearing itself apart at the seams while neo nazi right wing authoritarian figures take up the reins of government here. They will achieve what they want without ever suffering a shot in anger from a 5.56mm...or 6.88 or whatever the fuck you guys were arguing the military will be using.
> 
> But by then it will be too late for Disney's investors


Strong disagree. What you're saying is not a rare viewpoint. However, I think the West is stronger than ever in many ways.

Russia has united us like never before. Look how fast the EU, Britain and US acted over sending arms, handling refugees, creating sanctions. I don't think we've ever agreed on anything that fast before. Russia has also successfully helped expand NATO, and created a new 1,000 km long NATO border for themselves. Oops. Every single NATO country is also now pledging to spend more on defence, to buy newer gear (often after giving older stuff to Kyiv) and to train together more often.

Russia has also weakened themselves both practically (depleting their soldiers, officers, generals, missiles, tanks etc) and symbolically (40 mile traffic jams of broken down tanks). After 6 months, they've only really progressed into the East of Ukraine, and it's not even certain they can hold it.

This has also demonstrated the massive superiority of western military technology, intelligence and doctrine. China is surely noticing that too. Russia has been slow, unable to adapt, and hasn't capitalised on advanced technology. Russia has a space program, their own satellites, their own weapon technology etc - yet they just haven't been able to integrate any of it into actually making strategically meaningful strikes.

Our basic weapons are doing VERY well against Russia, also. We gave Ukraine ~8 HIMARS systems with the 57 mile range rockets and it's totally changed the game. America alone has 300 systems, and we have rockets which go 190 miles. Our basic anti-tank weapons are wrecking Russian armour. Ukraine's basic air defences and our provided MANPADS have held Russia planes back and still even shoot down a good number of missiles. (Taiwan has full Patriot batteries, for comparison.)

China talks a big game and spends lots of money, but I kinda refuse to believe their doctrine or actual operations would be better. They're still a top-heavy dictatorship, so I just don't see them empowering people in the field to make decisions. They also have basically zero practical experience, whereas the US (and NATO) have very well integrated systems to get intelligence, air power, ground troops, artillery etc all working together.

Lastly, economically I think countries have now had enough of China's bullshit, especially after Covid. The UK and many others are taking action to restrict Chinese involvement in many areas like infrastructure, power generation, communications etc. Countries are pulling back and becoming more nationalist (in a good way), producing more things are home, becoming less reliant on others. Covid was been a good example of that, when India just clicks their fingers and refuses to export basic medicines. Now there are legit efforts by western governments to become more self-sufficient. 

I still don't think there will be war, but I totally disagree that the west is weaker, dumber or less united than we have been in the past. I actually think we're mostly past it now. The culture war stuff gets way too much attention and might lead you to believe people are mad all the time.


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## mmr007 (Jul 31, 2022)

Everything you said is so adorable.


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## Adieu (Jul 31, 2022)

odibrom said:


> Yes, you should. You live in a country that follows the human rights treaty, China does not.
> 
> Although I'm not religious, people have the rights to have whatever believes they want or need. There is not right to impose whatever to whomever and that's China doing all over its country.
> 
> ...



Pretty sure it's not about Uyghurs and Tibetans per se, they're really about hardcore devout Muslims and Buddhists in general. And Christians etc. too.

And the methods really are ugly.

But... Here's the moral conundrum: I really don't want the Tibetans to win. Wacky medieval theocracies are scary.

PS the max amount of religion I'm cool with is the cultural-historical theme park approach the Japanese have. Genuine true believers in anything scare the crap out of me. Yes, Christians too.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... you're empowering China this way... that's how they got all western world fucked up... fast and easy money for the corporations getting goods cheaper, no matter the real cost it will take in the long run... bastards.



You're not wrong, but also, all the rare earth metals to make all the little doodads in our pedal boards, modelers etc are strip mined by people whose families are being poisoned by the pollution from their jobs. 

So sure, maybe we "should" care, but it's not like there's ethically-sourced palladium mined responsibly by anarcho-syndicalist dwarves living in harmony with nature on the market. 

What's the difference between a country that doesn't follow the human rights treaty, and a country that "follows" it but still does business with countries that don't for that sweet, sweet strip-mined palladium? In my eyes, not a whole lot. 

In summation I agree with you completely, but I also completely reject the notion that individual consumption choices drive market forces, or any external forces save social clout. It's the same as being sober, or vegan - a great personal choice (IMO) but one that does absolutely nothing to address the sociological/material conditions that give rise to its ideological necessity.


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## Riff the Road Dog (Jul 31, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> not wrong, but also, all the rare earth metals to make all the little doodads in our pedal boards, modelers etc are strip mined by people whose families are being poisoned by the pollution from their jobs.
> 
> So sure, maybe we "should" care, but it's not like there's ethically-sourced palladium mined responsibly by anarcho-syndicalist dwarves living in harmony with nature on the market.
> 
> ...


This is a great post. While boycotts generally do nothing to affect the bottom line they can be effective in tarnishing the brand of an entity seen as standing in the way of progress, as we have seen quite a bit recently. Capitalism is the strongest self-affirming system the world has ever seen, however. What starts as a revolt is assimilated, reimagined, marketed and sold and ends up affirming the system it originally was intended to criticize.

Voting with my wallet feels like maybe the only puny bit of power an individual can wield even if it does have little to no effect.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> This is a great post. While boycotts generally do nothing to affect the bottom line they can be effective in tarnishing the brand of an entity seen as standing in the way of progress, as we have seen quite a bit recently. Capitalism is the strongest self-affirming system the world has ever seen, however. What starts as a revolt is assimilated, reimagined, marketed and sold and ends up affirming the system it originally was intended to criticize.
> 
> Voting with my wallet feels like maybe the only puny bit of power an individual can wield even if it does have little to no effect.



I mean yeah, I still think about what I'm buying and where it's coming from even if it matters hardly at all. It makes me feel better about my choices and that's worth something. 

I often wonder, where does theft/shoplifting figure into the narrative of "voting with your dollar?" It certainly seems to some extent like refusing to pay at all and taking the product anyway is a strong vote indeed, if we are to consider transactions as "votes." It would be akin to voting more than once, to follow the admittedly imperfect metaphor. 

In a certain sense, shoplifting is one of the only/most ethical choices available if the goal is "expressing an opinion via transaction," followed closely by eating/reusing trash. 

Extrapolating this framework to "fair trade" products also raises interesting questions. What happens when "someone" steals a "fair trade" chocolate bar? Presumably the "fair trade" took place long before the wholesaler sold it to the distributor who sent it to GiantMegaRetailStore. If we are to take the notion of "fair trade" seriously (I don't, but just for funsies) it seems once again that the most ethically sound option is stealing candy bars: supports "fair trade," does not directly support GiantMegaRetailStore (but they get to write it off so it's basically a wash anyway)


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## DrewH (Jul 31, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I know the last thread I started like this ultimately lead to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
> 
> It's clear the USA is fighting some kind of proxy war with Russia but it seems as though things are "heating" up, sorry bad nuclear war pun.
> 
> ...



Zero chance.

China and the US right now are like a husband and wife that hate each other but the divorce would financially wreck both parties. That could actually be an understatement. It was easier to have a war decades ago because countries were more self sufficient and there wasn't this global economy we have now. So, just as in a bad marriage, you'll just say FU to each other on occasion and make the best of it otherwise. This is why China has not invaded Taiwan to this point and why we won't recognize Taiwan.


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## odibrom (Jul 31, 2022)

Adieu said:


> Pretty sure it's not about Uyghurs and Tibetans per se, they're really about hardcore devout Muslims and Buddhists in general. And Christians etc. too.
> 
> And the methods really are ugly.
> 
> ...



Buddism is the only non-beligerant religion I know of, maybe confucionism as well. Taoism is not a religion, it's a life philosophy, there are no worships nor dieties nor gods.

I understand your scepticism but I also accept other people's believes. The Tibetan culture is super peaceful and they are not as teocentric as you are painting them to be. They do not deserve what China is doing to them, which is almost genocide and a clear cultural brain/whitewashing.



Riff the Road Dog said:


> This is a great post. While boycotts generally do nothing to affect the bottom line they can be effective in tarnishing the brand of an entity seen as standing in the way of progress, as we have seen quite a bit recently. Capitalism is the strongest self-affirming system the world has ever seen, however. What starts as a revolt is assimilated, reimagined, marketed and sold and ends up affirming the system it originally was intended to criticize.
> 
> Voting with my wallet feels like maybe the only puny bit of power an individual can wield even if it does have little to no effect.


Voting with our wallet IS the way to go, as much as possible. Capitalism will chew its own bones thinking it's profitable...


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## philkilla (Aug 1, 2022)

Guess we'll see what fate decides after Pelosi visits Taiwan..


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## odibrom (Aug 1, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Guess we'll see what fate decides after Pelosi visits Taiwan..



... *IF* she in fact visits Taiwan...


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## philkilla (Aug 1, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... *IF* she in fact visits Taiwan...



Yes indeed. Maybe it's all talk just to drum up a response, or she'll visit and China will do something stupid.

I'd be very pissed if a war broke out because she visited, but we can't bend the knee to China either.


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## tedtan (Aug 2, 2022)

China is all bluster on this.

Russia may be downplaying the effects of the sanctions, but China has been watching and has seen the true impact they’ve had and they don’t want the west to enact similar sanctions against them.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

Haven’t read all this thread but was looking for something similar. After I post this im
Gonna go to the top and read but just pointing out that a military convoy is moving towards the Chinese coast close to Taiwan…. Could be a drill military’s always do drills of the most likely scenario however… I do recall a few months ago when Russia gave the green light on its invasion. I try to not speak of these topics to much in this site for fears of seeming like a fear monger and a conspiracy theorist but it’s only a matter of time before we butt heads with china. I guess we will know the moment they start putting tanks on boats but I figure they would bomb some stuff before they put the tanks in… who knows I’m not some kind of military supermind… I do know that Mexico is chinas allie and China has got its foot in South America to. It could be crazy one front fighting china in South America while Mexico invades. Russia invading alaska. And pushing on nato countries. I know that Russia hacking governemnt networks is also a bad deal…I just hope that america has some secret weapon that we have been devolping this whole time in secret. To stop there nukes and to counter… I don’t want Innocent people to die, but I hate authority so I would like to see the rulers of authoritative countries replaced…


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I know the last thread I started like this ultimately lead to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
> 
> It's clear the USA is fighting some kind of proxy war with Russia but it seems as though things are "heating" up, sorry bad nuclear war pun.
> 
> ...


World War Two did pulls us out of the Great Depression. I definitely think that america needs a reason for everyone to reckonsolve there differences and a way to live in unity with one another. Maybe a big war that we truly try to stay out of but are forced to fight in to stop invasion… I will tell you right now I’m not living under china or russias rule in America! I will die.. but it seems to what I’m noticing is just a bunch of pacifist who would just rather give it away… they just want to give up… imagine though satanists and atheists and religious people and gays and straights and flat earthers pop fans n jazz lovers metal heads and abortion lovers and opposers just everything divides being set aside to open up old fashioned can of American whoop asss. As much as everyone is divided I think this could truly bring us all together… to live in peace again


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> We kind of have been at war with them since the '50s in the proxy sense. The Korean War was really US vs China in the end. There was a cease fire but the war technically never ended.


Yes China funded the Vietnam and Korean War


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> IMO China does not want war with us. They would pay a very heavy price as we have NATO and their best ally, Russia, is already taxed winning against a country previously thought to be very weak. While China might have a ton of people, we have far greater military power and a much better trained force. Really the USA and China are so reliant on each other for our economies that a real war would be a loser for both of us and the world. I think China starting up something with India or Taiwan is much more likely if/when we got involved it would probably look a lot like how we are helping Ukraine vs us going direct.


I agree with this as well… China has been building up its military but they haven’t fought a war in ages… on the other hand america has been fighting since it was conceived and we will fight until we are no more… unless we are completely brainwashed. I still think there will
Be the few that fight anyway… if they invade I’m fighting. I have no military training but I don’t care. I guarantee you I’m already on some Chinese kill list because of how much negativity I have express towards ping all over the internet


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

tedtan said:


> China and the US are already involved in a cold war, with the stealing of IP, economic conflict, espionage activity similar to that during the Cold War with the USSR, and so forth, but I don’t think we’ll see it escalate beyond that.


Exactly a cyber war is for sure going to be a front of the next large conflict. It’s already underway


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## odibrom (Aug 2, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Guess we'll see what fate decides after Pelosi visits Taiwan..



... and she's there... has China done anything yet?


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 2, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... and she's there... has China done anything yet?


Just some shows of force basically Sabre rattling at this point


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## odibrom (Aug 2, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Just some shows of force basically Sabre rattling at this point



... so all bark and no real bite... let them keep it that way...


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## philkilla (Aug 3, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... and she's there... has China done anything yet?



Six separate live fire training missions surrounding Taiwan. Passive aggressive displays of force akin to a child stomping their feet.

The week isn't over yet though. 

It is interesting that AMTD Digital skyrocketed over night. Pelosi is still working her insider trading hard AF.


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## DiezelMonster (Aug 3, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Six separate live fire training missions surrounding Taiwan. Passive aggressive displays of force akin to a child stomping their feet.
> 
> The week isn't over yet though.
> 
> It is interesting that AMTD Digital skyrocketed over night. Pelosi is still working her insider trading hard AF.



All it will take is one accident, this is in the area as of yesterday









UPDATED: Carrier USS Ronald Reagan, F-35B Big Deck Operating Near Taiwan as Pelosi Arrives in Singapore; China Renews Threats - USNI News


This post has been corrected to show USS America (LHA-6) is in port. Two U.S. capital ships and their escorts are operating in the Western Pacific near Taiwan, USNI News has learned. Aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) and big deck amphibious ship USS Tripoli (LHA-7), with Marine F-35B...




news.usni.org


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 3, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Yes indeed. Maybe it's all talk just to drum up a response, or she'll visit and China will do something stupid.
> 
> I'd be very pissed if a war broke out because she visited, but we can't bend the knee to China either.


China won't do shit. And the funny thing is, they look super weak and butthurt about this now. If they just ignored it, and played it off as a non-factor they'd look tougher. But they made big noise about warning her not to go, and then she went. So now they're kinda forced to keep acting outraged.

All this "loading tanks on ships" stuff is propaganda for domestic consumption. Slow-moving ships in 100 miles of water get sunk pretty damn easily.

So they'll do their troll-like exercises in the ocean around Taiwan, and maybe send a few more planes to violate the ADIZ. They won't start a war, because it's simply not rational.

China, Russia and some others have all been under some illusion that the West is just too lazy, stupid, comfortable, complacent, or whatever, to actually do anything. They've been investing a lot of time and money into dividing us, distracting us etc. But recently we are proving them wrong again and again.



tedtan said:


> China and the US are already involved in a cold war, with the stealing of IP, economic conflict, espionage activity similar to that during the Cold War with the USSR, and so forth, but I don’t think we’ll see it escalate beyond that.


Funny thing is, China was waging it for ages. It's like now the western governments finally realised.

The hope was that trading with them, inviting them into institutions, making them part of the global economy etc, they'd move to democracy and liberal values. Instead they took the money and doubled down, so now we're pulling back.


mmr007 said:


> Everything you said is so adorable.


And everything you said was typical anti-west propaganda.


creepymcpeepers said:


> Haven’t read all this thread but was looking for something similar. After I post this im
> Gonna go to the top and read but just pointing out that a military convoy is moving towards the Chinese coast close to Taiwan…. Could be a drill military’s always do drills of the most likely scenario however… I do recall a few months ago when Russia gave the green light on its invasion. I try to not speak of these topics to much in this site for fears of seeming like a fear monger and a conspiracy theorist but it’s only a matter of time before we butt heads with china. I guess we will know the moment they start putting tanks on boats but I figure they would bomb some stuff before they put the tanks in… who knows I’m not some kind of military supermind… I do know that Mexico is chinas allie and China has got its foot in South America to. It could be crazy one front fighting china in South America while Mexico invades. Russia invading alaska. And pushing on nato countries. I know that Russia hacking governemnt networks is also a bad deal…I just hope that america has some secret weapon that we have been devolping this whole time in secret. To stop there nukes and to counter… I don’t want Innocent people to die, but I hate authority so I would like to see the rulers of authoritative countries replaced…


"Military convoy" is nothing but propaganda for China to look tough to their citizens (and gullible westerners)

It took Russia MONTHS of preparation to invade Ukraine. Moving all your tanks and artillery etc, but also the people, housing them, feeding them, taking away waste and all the boring logistical stuff. Western intelligence was saying for ages that invasion was going to happen. It's beyond "training exercises" once they're bringing in fuel trucks for driving long distances, and building field hospitals. Even then, look how badly their logistics went, with literal traffic jams of tanks lol.

And do you think the US isn't constantly monitoring the situation in China and Taiwan? A naval invasion would be WAY more difficult and would require a massive amount of preparation. You'd need a huge buildup of equipment and other gear. That's 100 miles of pretty damn rough seas they'd need to cross, and the island of Taiwan doesn't have many friendly landing spots. Furthermore, it's not like Taiwan isn't fortified, prepared with anti-ship missiles etc. Basically, any sort of proper invasion and occupation is VERY difficult, and you definitely couldn't do it by surprise.

My prediction is that China will do their exercises, probably do some more trolling of the edge of Taiwan airspace, sending ships into the waters etc. Probably also they'll intimidate or interfere with some ships in the waters - picking on Taiwanese vessels, or allied vessels. And they'll change their propaganda message about how Nancy ran back to America with her tail between her legs etc.


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## mmr007 (Aug 3, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> China won't do shit. And the funny thing is, they look super weak and butthurt about this now. If they just ignored it, and played it off as a non-factor they'd look tougher. But they made big noise about warning her not to go, and then she went. So now they're kinda forced to keep acting outraged.
> 
> All this "loading tanks on ships" stuff is propaganda for domestic consumption. Slow-moving ships in 100 miles of water get sunk pretty damn easily.
> 
> ...


I'll take a pause to go get checked for Alzheimer's because I honestly don't remember typing anything that was anti-west propaganda.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> China won't do shit. And the funny thing is, they look super weak and butthurt about this now. If they just ignored it, and played it off as a non-factor they'd look tougher. But they made big noise about warning her not to go, and then she went. So now they're kinda forced to keep acting outraged.
> 
> All this "loading tanks on ships" stuff is propaganda for domestic consumption. Slow-moving ships in 100 miles of water get sunk pretty damn easily.
> 
> ...


I still wish we would whoop chinas ass. After seeing Russia struggle with ukraine. It could be us India Australia and Great Britain and nato countries and we could destroy North Korea Russia and China and end autocracy.. that’s what I want. I hate china. I don’t hate Chinese people. I hate their government. I hate control.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)




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## MFB (Aug 3, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I still wish we would whoop chinas ass. After seeing Russia struggle with ukraine. It could be us India Australia and Great Britain and nato countries and we could destroy North Korea Russia and China and end autocracy.. that’s what I want. I hate china. I don’t hate Chinese people. I hate their government. I hate control.



LOL, bro, the second China sees an actual viable threat to them like an allied front, it's nukes for breakfast; if we can't have it, no one will.


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## mmr007 (Aug 3, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I still wish we would whoop chinas ass. After seeing Russia struggle with ukraine. It could be us India Australia and Great Britain and nato countries and we could destroy North Korea Russia and China and end autocracy.. that’s what I want. I hate china. I don’t hate Chinese people. I hate their government. I hate control.


If you don't hate the people you shouldn't wish for the destruction of their country. I know what you are trying to say but opening a can of whoop ass on NK, China and Russia would come with significant human cost on all sides and honestly, China has been brainwashing its people to prepare for a long fight for a while. The best thing to wish for (although it would NEVER happen) is that global corps would stop bending over backwards to get access to 1.5 billion consumers at any cost


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> If you don't hate the people you shouldn't wish for the destruction of their country. I know what you are trying to say but opening a can of whoop ass on NK, China and Russia would come with significant human cost on all sides and honestly, China has been brainwashing its people to prepare for a long fight for a while. The best thing to wish for (although it would NEVER happen) is that global corps would stop bending over backwards to get access to 1.5 billion consumers at any cost


If there brainwashing there people to prepare then a fight will happen one day. Pacifism will get us nowhere. People are gonna die and I can’t change that. I wish they wouldn’t die… I’m just saying I would rather live in America the the untied states of the peoples republic.


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## Drew (Aug 3, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> China won't do shit. And the funny thing is, they look super weak and butthurt about this now. If they just ignored it, and played it off as a non-factor they'd look tougher. But they made big noise about warning her not to go, and then she went. So now they're kinda forced to keep acting outraged.


Ironically, China is now kind of apologixzing to their citizens for not doing more, after building up so much rhetoric about the severity of their response. I was a bit worried about how this might make the US look weak and ununified with Pelosi and Biden not being squarely on the same page... but China managed to bungle their coordinated response even worse so Pelosi is coming out of this looking like she was right to call their bluff. 

That could still change of course, but for now...


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## mmr007 (Aug 3, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> If there brainwashing there people to prepare then a fight will happen one day. Pacifism will get us nowhere. People are gonna die and I can’t change that. I wish they wouldn’t die… I’m just saying I would rather live in America the the untied states of the peoples republic.


I'm not saying if slapped turn the other cheek. I am saying best not to pick a fight with 1.5 billion people preparing for one....wars are won on hearts and minds as well as weapons and war is a bad idea. We need to stand up to bullies yes, but that means corporations need to as well. Aircraft carriers can only do so much


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)

MFB said:


> LOL, bro, the second China sees an actual viable threat to them like an allied front, it's nukes for breakfast; if we can't have it, no one will.


They said the same thing about Russia the moment something happens nukes are flying. Then I seen Russia invade ukraine with World War Two weapons… in a World War Two fashion. And we are steadily sending weaponry. No nukes have flown.. man everyone believs the Chinese and Russia propoganda cause it floods youtube these days… there just heathens I think there is no real threat


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I'm not saying if slapped turn the other cheek. I am saying best not to pick a fight with 1.5 billion people preparing for one....wars are won on hearts and minds as well as weapons and war is a bad idea. We need to stand up to bullies yes, but that means corporations need to as well. Aircraft carriers can only do so much


Also every always talks about how many people they have but a army that big is gonna need more people in non combat roles to sustain it.. there to big for there own good. It’s kind of like fighting the fat bully on the playground that everyone is scared of and then you whoop his ass and he cry’s like a bitch


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## bostjan (Aug 3, 2022)

It might be pretty easy to point at this little visit and LOL at China, but it's kind of a big deal. A head of state is visiting Taiwan. We used to have diplomatic relations officially with Taiwan, but, as a requisite of having diplomatic relations with mainland China, we officially stopped (although unofficially continued). When I was a kid, cheap toys all said "Made in Taiwan" on the back. Now nothing does. China doesn't recognize that Taiwan exists as a government, and they take it very personally when anyone disagrees with them. I think this visit by the US is a way to try to leverage a two-state thing, but it's not going to work, because China has made it clear that they only deal in absolutes.

But regardless of what China wants or what it thinks it needs, there's really only one rational way for this to play out and that's for China to ultimately ignore what the US is doing. I think the US government has reached the same conclusion and is just sort of forcing China to grapple with that eventuality. The two big variables in this, though, are that 1) China is not rational (I know this will start an argument, that is fine, the facts of history speak louder than posturing, IMO) and 2) the US government is dumb. I mean, I agree that what they are trying to do can work, but it could also go wrong if they boff it hard enough, and well, the US government has possibly set the record for hardest boff.



creepymcpeepers said:


> They said the same thing about Russia the moment something happens nukes are flying. Then I seen Russia invade ukraine with World War Two weapons… in a World War Two fashion. And we are steadily sending weaponry. No nukes have flown.. man everyone believs the Chinese and Russia propoganda cause it floods youtube these days… there just heathens I think there is no real threat


I'm not sure how many modern nukes either of them have. Maybe their entire arsenal is poorly functioning. I wouldn't be too shocked if Russia's ICBMs were held together with bondo. But, even if their stuff is old and junk, it still might work. It's likely that they don't want to launch nukes, not only due to the doomsday scenario it would inevitably lead to, but also because they are afraid that the world would get a glimpse of how shit their arsenal is compared to what they led everyone to believe. But, even if they tried to launch a dozen hypersonic nukes across the Arctic Ocean at the US and UK, and only two of them managed to hit targets, and the rest either blew up at launch or crashed down into the ocean, it'd still be the end of millions of lives, and that's not even counting the retribution that would follow. The odds that Putin tries to launch his nukes, and they all go off in random directions and blow up a bunch of unintentional targets is also a possibility that would have dire consequences anyway. Even if the nukes fail to manage a fissile chain reaction explosion, the amount of toxicity they'd release would still be absolutely horrible for the planet.

Basically, the only good outcome possible, where the nukes all fail to launch at all and Putin has an aneurism and is replaced by a reasonable leader, is one in a million.

Dealing with China, where the technology is slightly less likely to fail, and the string of replacement leaders who have the same plan is essentially endless, the possibility of such an outcome is virtually zero.

And if other countries try to pull some sort of pre-emptive attack, then it just makes China the good guys in the scenario. A great deal of the militaristic culture in places like China and North Korea is almost solely due to the fact that Japan kicked everyone's asses in WWII by attacking like crazy. Most of those countries don't really want to attack anyone else, but they sure don't want to be unprepared when they are attacked the next time.

The idea of the USA, UK, Australia, and India uniting to form some sort of super-friends alliance to take on China and Russia, is a little bit crazy. First off, India has no beef with Russia, so I don't see how they'd be anything other than neutral. Their beefs with China don't seem anywhere near enough to go to war. No, they're far more worried about Pakistan whose government openly hates the Indian government, or Bangladesh, who has close ties to Pakistan and is on the opposite side of India, or Myanmar, who is in civil war, or Sri Lanka, who are on the brink of civil war, or Afghanistan, which is not that far away and is full of the worst kind of craziness right now. Even any of the other three you mentioned have large disincentive to attack China, seeing as how China is a top trading partner for all three. If the USA attacks China, no more electronics, no more cars, no more Walmart, basically.

As much as I agree that the Chinese government is one of the most harmful things on the planet, it's also one of the strongest things, not just from sheer power, but due to the way it's woven itself into everything.


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## Carrion Rocket (Aug 3, 2022)

Maybe if the US and China find out they both have mothers named Martha everything will be okay.


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## Drew (Aug 3, 2022)

bostjan said:


> But regardless of what China wants or what it thinks it needs, there's really only one rational way for this to play out and that's for China to ultimately ignore what the US is doing.


I share your concerns, but yes. The most likely outcome is some saber rattling and posturing, but not drawing such a firm line in the sand next time.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 3, 2022)

bostjan said:


> It might be pretty easy to point at this little visit and LOL at China, but it's kind of a big deal. A head of state is visiting Taiwan. We used to have diplomatic relations officially with Taiwan, but, as a requisite of having diplomatic relations with mainland China, we officially stopped (although unofficially continued). When I was a kid, cheap toys all said "Made in Taiwan" on the back. Now nothing does. China doesn't recognize that Taiwan exists as a government, and they take it very personally when anyone disagrees with them. I think this visit by the US is a way to try to leverage a two-state thing, but it's not going to work, because China has made it clear that they only deal in absolutes.
> 
> But regardless of what China wants or what it thinks it needs, there's really only one rational way for this to play out and that's for China to ultimately ignore what the US is doing. I think the US government has reached the same conclusion and is just sort of forcing China to grapple with that eventuality. The two big variables in this, though, are that 1) China is not rational (I know this will start an argument, that is fine, the facts of history speak louder than posturing, IMO) and 2) the US government is dumb. I mean, I agree that what they are trying to do can work, but it could also go wrong if they boff it hard enough, and well, the US government has possibly set the record for hardest boff.
> 
> ...


I hate wal mart don’t shoot let em burn


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## Flappydoodle (Aug 10, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I'll take a pause to go get checked for Alzheimer's because I honestly don't remember typing anything that was anti-west propaganda.



Oh, here you go:



> China will go to war but it won't be with the US because on our current trajectory we will be unable to do anything to stop their aggression and expansion. They own us financially and our society is hooked like morphine addicts on their social media gimmicks, and they and Russia have helped foment the US tearing itself apart at the seams while neo nazi right wing authoritarian figures take up the reins of government here. They will achieve what they want without ever suffering a shot in anger from a 5.56mm...or 6.88 or whatever the fuck you guys were arguing the military will be using.
> 
> But by then it will be too late for Disney's investors



Maybe you didn't know it, but this is a classic propaganda position that the West is falling apart, politics is broken etc. You even promote the idea of futile resistance to China's inevitable victory.

In reality, the West is becoming very united, and our methods of government and politics are flawed but extraordinarily resilient and adaptable.



bostjan said:


> It might be pretty easy to point at this little visit and LOL at China, but it's kind of a big deal. A head of state is visiting Taiwan. We used to have diplomatic relations officially with Taiwan, but, as a requisite of having diplomatic relations with mainland China, we officially stopped (although unofficially continued). When I was a kid, cheap toys all said "Made in Taiwan" on the back. Now nothing does. China doesn't recognize that Taiwan exists as a government, and they take it very personally when anyone disagrees with them. I think this visit by the US is a way to try to leverage a two-state thing, but it's not going to work, because China has made it clear that they only deal in absolutes.
> 
> But regardless of what China wants or what it thinks it needs, there's really only one rational way for this to play out and that's for China to ultimately ignore what the US is doing. I think the US government has reached the same conclusion and is just sort of forcing China to grapple with that eventuality. The two big variables in this, though, are that 1) China is not rational (I know this will start an argument, that is fine, the facts of history speak louder than posturing, IMO) and 2) the US government is dumb. I mean, I agree that what they are trying to do can work, but it could also go wrong if they boff it hard enough, and well, the US government has possibly set the record for hardest boff.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't see actual war happening. Neither side wants it, for all the reasons you mentioned. As long as no side makes a BLATANT catastrophic decision, I find it very difficult to see escalation to full-blown war.

For China, Taiwan is not really a prize worth losing a massive amount of GDP, people, status etc over. For the US, they do very much need semiconductors etc, and maybe there's some ideological value factored in too. But still, I don't think the US would enter WW3 to save 23 million people on an island on the other side of the world.

So IMO what happens is both sides posturing and we basically maintain the status quo. China sometimes gets mad, Taiwan doesn't get independent, USA stands by watching. Taiwan will eventually re-elect the KMT and things will improve for a period. 

And gradually the West is de-linking from China in some important aspects. Maybe if we're exceptionally lucky China might still modernise over time and behave like a decent country.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 10, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Oh, here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t believe the propoganda that china is ever so powerful now either. They can upload to the internet just like me and you can of course they are gonna upload there propoganda to the internet all there chinese spys and communist supporters that live in America they got to turn their brain to moosh somehow…. Other wise there communist workers and spies would come over here and be like screw this I’m gonna be American screw you screw you xi jing ping lol…
China ain’t shit
Also there but huge population everyone is scared of there mainly old people and there mostly about to die off… this is why china changed there policy to have more kids….china and there fancy new military …. To me like the kid at Christmas tirm
That got the best gun and shot his eye out….
They don’t know what there doing 
That’s why I wish every one would quit believing all this stuff on the internet about how so ever powerful they are…


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## odibrom (Aug 10, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I don’t believe the propoganda that china is ever so powerful now either. They can upload to the internet just like me and you can of course they are gonna upload there propoganda to the internet all there chinese spys and communist supporters that live in America they got to turn their brain to moosh somehow…. Other wise there communist workers and spies would come over here and be like screw this I’m gonna be American screw you screw you xi jing ping lol…
> China ain’t shit
> Also there but huge population everyone is scared of there mainly old people and there mostly about to die off… this is why china changed there policy to have more kids….china and there fancy new military …. To me like the kid at Christmas tirm
> That got the best gun and shot his eye out….
> ...


... or we could keep doing this so they'll believe their own bluf and when the time comes they'll shoot their own feet...


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 10, 2022)

odibrom said:


> ... or we could keep doing this so they'll believe their own bluf and when the time comes they'll shoot their own feet...


I like this


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## Drew (Aug 11, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> For China, Taiwan is not really a prize worth losing a massive amount of GDP, people, status etc over. For the US, they do very much need semiconductors etc, and maybe there's some ideological value factored in too. But still, I don't think the US would enter WW3 to save 23 million people on an island on the other side of the world.


I think the recvent semiconductor bill, to ensure a home-grown supply, points to a gradual de-linking here, and over time we maty be less inclined to go to war to protect Taiwan for purely economic reasons...

...but an economist raised an interesting point on a call I was on recently - the Chinese real estate market is a mess right now, with formerly very highly rated developers in bankruptcy, and the decision to prioritize local currency debt and default on international debt will severely complicate firms', even solvent ones, access to capital markets in the future. The Chinese financial system, in other words, is kind of strapped. They also have HUGE international emerging markets loan exposure as a consequence of their "Belt and Road Initiative." If the Fed usually hikes rates until something breaks, well, if a number of EM nations start defaulting on Chinese loans, that could very well be the Chinese financial system that cracks. 

If we won the Cold War by outspending the communists to bankrupt them, it would be deeply ironic if we staved off another cold war by allowing the communists to over-leverage themselves, and then ratcheted up the cost of leverage.


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## Riff the Road Dog (Aug 12, 2022)

This is how the US loses the "war" with China:


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## narad (Aug 13, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> This is how the US loses the "war" with China:




I mean, yesss...
_
The agency issued the license, and Yang launched UniEnergy Technologies. He hired engineers and researchers. But he soon ran into trouble. He said he couldn't persuade any U.S. investors to come aboard.

"I talked to almost all major investment banks; none of them (wanted to) invest in batteries," Yang said in an interview, adding that the banks wanted a return on their investments faster than the batteries would turn a profit._


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## philkilla (Aug 17, 2022)

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-08-17/chinese-military-will-send-troops-to-russia-for-joint-exercise




Oh that's cool.

I'm sure that decision wasn't influenced by a certain someone's visit to Taiwan recently.


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## Riff the Road Dog (Aug 17, 2022)

> https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...will-send-troops-to-russia-for-joint-exercise
> 
> 
> Oh that's cool.
> ...



It didn't. The joint military exercises and cooperation between Russia and China are not the first and have been planned in advance of any such recent event. The article covers it pretty clearly.


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## philkilla (Aug 17, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> It didn't. The joint military exercises and cooperation between Russia and China are not the first and have been planned in advance of any such recent event. The article covers it pretty clearly.




Lol this?

"China's participation in the joint exercises was "unrelated to the current international and regional situation", the ministry said in a statement."


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## Riff the Road Dog (Aug 17, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Lol this?
> 
> "China's participation in the joint exercises was "unrelated to the current international and regional situation", the ministry said in a statement."


No, history. No LOL. C'mon, man. You really must think Pelosi is powerful.









Assessing Chinese-Russian Military Exercises: Past Progress and Future Trends


Download the Report Summary This paper reviews the evolving Chinese-Russian military exercises, assesses their purposes and results, forecasts their future evolution, and evaluates the policy implications for U.S. military planners. The Chinese and Russian armed forces have become each other’s...




www.csis.org


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## philkilla (Aug 17, 2022)

Riff the Road Dog said:


> No, history. No LOL. C'mon, man. You really must think Pelosi is powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



3rd most powerful person in gov officially, but nah, I think China is more unpredictable than she is powerful if it's apples to oranges.


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 17, 2022)

With the china discussion here this is to all the pacifist…. They are preparing for war… we can keep being pacifist or we can deal a swift kick to the ass there sending troops to Russia now..world war two everyone started making bombs and most people got drafted. I wouldn’t mind going to work at a bomb factory or getting drafted. Let’s go kick some ass. Every one set your differences aside… let’s whoop some ass. I know it won’t happen though…. Looks like I will
Be a army of one when are country is invaded and be shot like a dog in the streets.


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## philkilla (Aug 17, 2022)

Meanwhile the US Army is busy implementing...."various progressive policies"


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## creepymcpeepers (Aug 17, 2022)

philkilla said:


> Meanwhile the US Army is busy implementing...."various progressive policies"


Yup


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