# What are the best locking tuners on the market?



## Rogueleader (Oct 31, 2009)

I know this thread has been done before, but what are the best locking tuners on the market? I prefer open gear designs.

Also, what tuners will fit in my 06 Jackson SLSMG (3 a side headstock) without any additional routing or modifications?


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## trenolds39 (Oct 31, 2009)

I've got a few guitars with Sperzels. They do the job, but they're a pain in the ass to fix if something goes wrong. For example, I accidently unscrewed one all the way, and it took quite a bit of effort to put it back in. From what I've heard, Schallers are superior to Sperzels, and they seem to be roughly the same price. Unfortunately, neither of these are open-gear, but they are relatively inexpensive and easy to find.


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## troyguitar (Oct 31, 2009)

I've liked Sperzels better than Schallers. Haven't tried anything else though, who makes open-geared locking guitar tuners?


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## trenolds39 (Oct 31, 2009)

Have you seen the Steinberger tuners Patrick (Hufschmid) uses on his guitars? They're pretty intense - I'd like to try some on a guitar. They're a bit pricy, but they seem to be worth checking out.

Link: Steinberger Gearless Tuners at Stewart-MacDonald


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## troyguitar (Oct 31, 2009)

Whoa. I need those on my 9-string, though $150 is pretty steep for tuners...

Those use a 10mm hole so they will fit the SLSMG without mods.


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## CentaurPorn (Oct 31, 2009)

I have a set of Schaller mini locking tuners on my SLS. I snagged them on Warmoth for $10 each. I could not be happier. I tried Sperzel on a 727 and was not impressed at all. The schallers are also a straight drop in where the Sperzel will require drilling a hole.

Schaller Mini Locking Tuners

There is a link to the tuners and here they are on the soloist.











I will buy nothing but these from now on. They fit the SLS headstock perfectly and work great.


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## awesomeaustin (Oct 31, 2009)

My favorite has been and always will be Schaller, good old germans! They are fucking rugged.
The only open gear tuners I know of are Hipshot:





you can buy them on their website individually, they are expensive too, $15 per tuner. I have them on my 8 string, and they're not the best tuners ever, they have a tendency to cut the string off right before the tuner, they have soe sort of burr or something on the locking post that cuts through the string when you lock it. and its just one tuner it all 8 of them. they cut through an .080 gauge string of mine

Schallers are still my favorite, they are the perfect tuner and I will never buy anythign else


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## yellowv (Oct 31, 2009)

I have Schallers and Sperzels. Both are great, but IMO the Sperzels are better. But as Centaur said the Schallers are a direct fit while the Sprezels are not and would leave 6 open holes left in the back of your headstock and would require drilling 6 new holes.


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## hufschmid (Nov 1, 2009)




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## Bobulot (Nov 2, 2009)

Sperzel does do open gear tuners, you can see them on this page:
Sperzel - World's Finest Guitar Machine Heads
I ordered sperzels because I could get them in green, but in black or chrome I think the open back Hipshot Tuners Hufschmid uses are beyond sexy.


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## awesomeaustin (Nov 2, 2009)

Bobulot said:


> Sperzel does do open gear tuners, you can see them on this page:
> Sperzel - World's Finest Guitar Machine Heads
> I ordered sperzels because I could get them in green, but in black or chrome I think the open back Hipshot Tuners Hufschmid uses are beyond sexy.


he asking about locking tuners.

AFAIK, Sperzel doesn't do locking open gear tuners


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## Elysian (Nov 2, 2009)

awesomeaustin said:


> he asking about locking tuners.
> 
> AFAIK, Sperzel doesn't do locking open gear tuners


Yes they do, I've posted about them on here before, including pics(though the pics are now defunct), and I have a set in the shop. I also just sold a set. Sperzel open back tuners with pearloid buttons are bar-none the lightest tuner on the market, scale tested by myself.


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## awesomeaustin (Nov 4, 2009)

Elysian said:


> Yes they do, I've posted about them on here before, including pics(though the pics are now defunct), and I have a set in the shop. I also just sold a set. Sperzel open back tuners with pearloid buttons are bar-none the lightest tuner on the market, scale tested by myself.



I stand corrected. 
Sounds like theyre alot better than the hipshot tuners


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## Elysian (Nov 4, 2009)

awesomeaustin said:


> I stand corrected.
> Sounds like theyre alot better than the hipshot tuners



I wouldn't say "better", just different, and lighter  With more options to boot.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 4, 2009)

I really dislike Sperzels. It's too bad that you can't really replace them with another brand without the holes. I would rather have non locking tuners then Sperzels. 

The Schaller locking tuners however are great.


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## darren (Nov 4, 2009)

I had a conversation with Bob Sperzel a while ago, and he mentioned that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to the accuracy of tuners is the plating process. 

Electroplating is a very inconsistent process, and depending on where the parts are on the plating rack when they're immersed into the bath, the thickness of the plating can vary by quite a lot. In order for everything to fit together, the parts need to be designed and manufactured to looser tolerances to take into account this variability in the thickness of the plating.

This is why Sperzel tuners are made of aluminum and are anodized. Anodizing is a purely electrolytic process and it changes the crystalline structure of the metal itself near the surface, leaving a consistent layer of aluminum oxide only nanometres thick. So while Sperzels may not have the highest gear ratio, they are made dimensionally more accurate than any other tuners on the market, so their accuracy is improved by having less "play" in their motion than other tuners. They're also nice and light. I also like the modular design of Sperzels, allowing them to be user-swappable between left and right, and there are numerous colour options available.


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## Elysian (Nov 4, 2009)

darren said:


> I had a conversation with Bob Sperzel a while ago, and he mentioned that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to the accuracy of tuners is the plating process.
> 
> Electroplating is a very inconsistent process, and depending on where the parts are on the plating rack when they're immersed into the bath, the thickness of the plating can vary by quite a lot. In order for everything to fit together, the parts need to be designed and manufactured to looser tolerances to take into account this variability in the thickness of the plating.
> 
> This is why Sperzel tuners are made of aluminum and are anodized. Anodizing is a purely electrolytic process and it changes the crystalline structure of the metal itself near the surface, leaving a consistent layer of aluminum oxide only nanometres thick. So while Sperzels may not have the highest gear ratio, they are made dimensionally more accurate than any other tuners on the market, so their accuracy is improved by having less "play" in their motion than other tuners. They're also nice and light. I also like the modular design of Sperzels, allowing them to be user-swappable between left and right, and there are numerous colour options available.



Awesome post, and makes lots of sense.



JJ Rodriguez said:


> I really dislike Sperzels. It's too bad that you can't really replace them with another brand without the holes. I would rather have non locking tuners then Sperzels.
> 
> The Schaller locking tuners however are great.



How can one hate Sperzels so much?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 4, 2009)

I prefer the stock Grovers on my Ibbies to them. I just don't like the feel, and they fuck up way too easy. Try getting a second hand guitar with Sperzels. People over tighten them and fuck up the pin. I never have issues with other tuners second hand though. It's like that on several guitars I've tried with Sperzels. My Schaller locking tuners are nowhere near as finicky. I've also tried another guitar that someone had with them and they weren't fucked up like Sperzels. They should really have some kind of mechanism that stops people from over tightening them and fucking the pin up, or fucking up the thread of the lock. Why this isn't a problem on the Schallers, I have no idea.

The only thing that pisses me off about the Schallers is the spring loaded pin. Have to fuck around and wiggle the string a bunch to get it through the tuner.


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## Elysian (Nov 4, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I prefer the stock Grovers on my Ibbies to them. I just don't like the feel, and they fuck up way too easy. Try getting a second hand guitar with Sperzels. People over tighten them and fuck up the pin. I never have issues with other tuners second hand though. It's like that on several guitars I've tried with Sperzels. My Schaller locking tuners are nowhere near as finicky. I've also tried another guitar that someone had with them and they weren't fucked up like Sperzels. They should really have some kind of mechanism that stops people from over tightening them and fucking the pin up, or fucking up the thread of the lock. Why this isn't a problem on the Schallers, I have no idea.
> 
> The only thing that pisses me off about the Schallers is the spring loaded pin. Have to fuck around and wiggle the string a bunch to get it through the tuner.



Schallers use a ball bearing on the end of the pin, instead of just a solid pin like the Sperzels. I've only come across 1 set of fucked up used Sperzels, otherwise they are fine. Sounds like you hate owners of Sperzels more than Sperzels  Feel is easy to fix on any tuners, you tighten or loosen the screw that holds the button on, and you change how easy or hard it is to turn, so that should never be an issue.


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## eaeolian (Nov 4, 2009)

I have both Sperzels and Planet Waves on various guitars. Both have their strengths and weaknesses - I wish the Sperzels were 14:1, but I think they're better made than the PW. I've never really had any problems with either as far as tuning stability or longevity, though.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 4, 2009)

Elysian said:


> Schallers use a ball bearing on the end of the pin, instead of just a solid pin like the Sperzels. I've only come across 1 set of fucked up used Sperzels, otherwise they are fine. Sounds like you hate owners of Sperzels more than Sperzels  Feel is easy to fix on any tuners, you tighten or loosen the screw that holds the button on, and you change how easy or hard it is to turn, so that should never be an issue.



I guess the Schallers stand up to abuse better than the Sperzels then. Also, for feel, I guess I should have clarified that I meant when screwing/unscrewing the lock on it. The threading seems to fuck up on the Sperzels too. I'm assuming it's another can't take the abuse type issue.

I might not have the experience a lot of people have with them (I've tried 3 guitars with Sperzels, 3 with Schaller locking) and in all cases the Schallers have performed flawlessly. In 2 of the ones with Sperzels, the threading was fucked up on more than 1 tuner, and I believe the pin was fucked up because it didn't seem to lock right. Could have been the threading not being able to screw it tight enough to lock, either way. On the third one, it was a brand new Morton sig Jackson which come with Sperzels, and the threading didn't feel solid, felt like it was catching or something, hard to describe.

On the brand new tuner I got from you, I didn't find the threading to be as smooth either.

The really sad part is is that KxK uses Sperzels exclusively, so I couldn't get the Schaller tuners on them  Maybe Sperzel make a non locking tuner that will retrofit their locking tuners I can throw on. Since I use trems on all my guitars, I have a lock nut, so I'd rather spend the extra time on string changes than deal with them


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## Elysian (Nov 4, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I guess the Schallers stand up to abuse better than the Sperzels then. Also, for feel, I guess I should have clarified that I meant when screwing/unscrewing the lock on it. The threading seems to fuck up on the Sperzels too. I'm assuming it's another can't take the abuse type issue.
> 
> I might not have the experience a lot of people have with them (I've tried 3 guitars with Sperzels, 3 with Schaller locking) and in all cases the Schallers have performed flawlessly. In 2 of the ones with Sperzels, the threading was fucked up on more than 1 tuner, and I believe the pin was fucked up because it didn't seem to lock right. Could have been the threading not being able to screw it tight enough to lock, either way. On the third one, it was a brand new Morton sig Jackson which come with Sperzels, and the threading didn't feel solid, felt like it was catching or something, hard to describe.
> 
> ...


Sperzel does make a non-locking tuner. They also make a pretty cool passive locking tuner called the SoundLok tuner, one of the coolest tuners I've had the pleasure to check out. You load the string through the shaft of the tuner, and it locks against itself, it's ingenious, though I believe they only accept up to like a 54 or so, so if you use thicker strings, unraveling is a must. I've only even sold 1 set of those, but the guy loves them to death.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 4, 2009)

Yeah, I use a 64 minimum for a low B  I have files here though. I think I'll have to order a set through you (non locking Sperzels) once the KxK's arrive.


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