# Why CAGED Guitar System Sucks (1): Right Hand Consistency



## wowspare (May 13, 2016)

This is really the best take on the CAGED system I've ever come across.



td;lr version: It's simply inefficient and unnecessarily time-consuming. If you learn the CAGED system, you're spending 5~7 times the amount of time to get to the same level as someone who learnt the 3-notes-per-string system. You're making things unnecessarily harder for yourself for no extra benefit.

If you want to argue his point, then _argue his point_, no ad hominems please.


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## big_aug (May 13, 2016)

This is awful. His criticism is so completely flawed in this video. I'm not a supporter of any particular system and couldn't care any less what anyone thinks is better. His premise is completely flawed.

His criticism is the two notes on certain strings in the scale pattern and how that creates inconsistent picking patterns. It is completely irrelevant. The purpose of a system such as CAGED is to learn the fretboard and how it all ties together. It is to understand chords, scales, and how those interact on the fretboard. The number of notes per string or how it is picked isn't relevant at all. Once you know where the notes are and understand the fretboard, you will not be tied to patterns at all. Memorizing patterns and playing patterns is not the goal. The goal is to have a working knowledge of the fretboard and use it to produce music. Once you know all the notes and how they interact, there is no more CAGED system. There are just notes. CAGED and any other systems only help you get to the point where you don't need them. The goal of these systems is for the user to reach the ultimate point where they are obsolete.

It doesn't matter whether you use an up stroke or a down stroke on any particular string. He completely misses the point of a system like CAGED. I'm not even a music teacher, expert, or anything. I don't even know my fretboard. Even I recognize the massive flaw in his argument. Anyone who grasps the greater concept will immediately see through this guy. CAGED is just a way of organizing a huge amount of information to make it easier to understand. That seems lost on this guy. I feel bad for his students. He isnt operating on the appropriate level.


PS: It doesn't matter how many patterns there are. They are irrelevant. Their only purpose is to organize information. If organizing information in a particular way is more effective for someone, then that is the best way to do it. It will likely vary across populations. For example, people do not organize information exactly the same way to prepare for tests. They organize the information in a way that allows them to best recall the information. That's normal. It doesn't mean that one way is inherently better. There are a lot of methods to organize large amounts of information to help recall. Some don't work for some people. I think he lacks a general understanding of learning and how people learn.


The CAGED system MIGHT be inferior, but not for the reasons he stated.


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## big_aug (May 14, 2016)

Rarely am I compelled to type out such a response. This guy is a douchebag though.


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## Alex Kenivel (May 14, 2016)

pretentious balding pencil head guitar playing nerds with computers need to STFU and GTFO. Elitism at its finest. I'm tired of these people.


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## OmegaSlayer (May 14, 2016)

If there's a system or a technique I stumble upon, I study it.
It won't certainly make me a worse player.


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## big_aug (May 14, 2016)

I looked at it again. He's so awful. He says that the right hand learns faster when it picks exactly the same every time. That's true. It learns that one picking pattern faster. Great! You learned to pick three notes per string. That's not how music is played. I can't think of any solos Ive learned lately that had a nice, neat TNPS picking pattern.

If anything, his argument shows that CAGED patterns will lead to a better overall development as the right hand will be used in a variety of ways. You make it harder for yourself, but there is benefit. You learn how to pick more like you naturally would while you actually play music.


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## Spectre 1 (May 14, 2016)

Looks like Tobias Fünke quit his day job.


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## cwhitey2 (May 14, 2016)

that guy


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## Pyramid Gallery (May 14, 2016)

I agee 100 with the spirit of what you guys are saying. But I the OP makes a good 
arguement for speed and the mechanics of motion. I dont think he is necessesarily
logical about it taking "5-7 times longer" to learn the same patterns, but it might 
make a significant difference to some. Conversely, the OP's point makes it clear 
(unbeknownst to the OP) to be fluent in picking insomuch that it shoulnt matter
if the pick is going up or down. Going against the grain here, but I think he makes a point 
worth considering from a speed/mechanics pov.


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## j3ps3 (May 15, 2016)

To me CAGED system is just a map on how to find triads all over the neck. I don't even understand why he's talking about the 3-notes-per-string in the same context  do elaborate if I'm missing something out


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## Pyramid Gallery (May 18, 2016)

Its a map of the major scale (and modes), separated into 5-7 patterns each going across 
the fretboard on all strings. His deal was that it [email protected] up your picking technique because 
the patterns arent completely 3 frets per string, but sometimes two. 
On the one hand, insignificant. On the other, an idiosyncracy worth noting on the level of
Troy Grady.


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## noUser01 (May 21, 2016)

j3ps3 said:


> To me CAGED system is just a map on how to find triads all over the neck. I don't even understand why he's talking about the 3-notes-per-string in the same context  do elaborate if I'm missing something out



Boom. I think the guy in this video thoroughly misunderstood the point of the CAGED system. It's for theoretical organization through visualization. It's not a mechanics of motion exercise.


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## MajorTom (May 24, 2016)

And part two is due when? seriously, don't leave a brother hanging here, you have left me feeling like a one armed Ethiopian hang from a cliff with a pocket full of Mars Bars here.


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## NickWeiland (Jun 27, 2016)

This guy has been a thorn in my side for a very long time. The CAGED system is a visualisation tool to see chord families and arpeggios, intervals and scales all over the neck with ease as its the way the chords naturally form on the guitar. to me saying caged sucks is like saying the guitar sucks.


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## hoffmaniv (Aug 3, 2016)

Thread necromancy, sorry, but I had to chime in. 

Going to echo the general sentiments here that CAGED is a system for learning how notes are organized around the neck. Not only are they shooting down something that's actually potentially useful to new players to learn, they're faulting it for all the wrong reasons. CAGED was not designed so that people could shred. And the problem with pushing the 3NPS system is that it bestows no actual knowledge of harmony on the player.

Practicing technique like this inevitably means that the patterns are going to play you, rather than the other way around. I learned 3NPS scales a number of years ago ... and now I'm trying to forget the patterns almost completely.


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## rockskate4x (Aug 6, 2016)

I find the CAGED system essential for mapping out the fingerboard in a way that relates to all the common chord shapes. It helps that everything is mapped out in zones of around five frets, so that chords/scales/arpeggios can all be layered on top of each other in mentally graspable chunks. However, this zoning keeps you from being able to move across the fingerboard in the most efficient manner for playing scalalar runs. 3 note per string and 4 note per string patterns with alternate picking just make more sense for keeping your picking consistent from string to string, therefore increasing efficiency. In short I love CAGED for theoretical applications and 3 and 4 notes per string for technical applications. They are both great systems, just know their strengths an their pitfalls for best results


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## tyler_faith_08 (Aug 17, 2016)

I've found that 2NPS and 3NPS are great ways of seeing things, but they are not the be all end all. They work toward the same goal in different ways, right along with CAGED.


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2016)

Reading new words by sounding them out from the letters that make them up sucks - it is slow and inefficient. /sarcasm


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## NickWeiland (Aug 17, 2016)

bostjan said:


> Reading new words by sounding them out from the letters that make them up sucks - it is slow and inefficient. /sarcasm



The way i see it is that the guitar is caged and caged is the basis to understanding how chord shapes form. and around the chords you can visualise where the scales and arps are. i see that caged is the basis and fundamental understanding of the guitar. then you add the other ways over the top of it. and combine the rest. this is how i teach, and it gives my students a huge advantage over the people who dont understand this.


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## tyler_faith_08 (Aug 17, 2016)

It all works really. I haven't seen evidence that one is better than the others, only that some people catch on to this one or that one better.


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## tyler_faith_08 (Aug 19, 2016)

There is no hope for this guy. I've tried debating with him. Go have a look in the comments.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 20, 2016)

wowspare said:


> This is really the best take on the CAGED system I've ever come across.



Best? More like the worst.


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