# Jazzy harmony question



## Mvotre (Jun 3, 2011)

so i'm trying to learn some jazz, specially chord melody. Got some nice books wich i still need to study a lot, and got myself a fake book. Got this question:







and then the music goes on. As you can see, the score is in C, and all the notes right where the chords appears on the staff are the 3rd of said chords, except for that damn E7 there 

In chord melody you should place the melody notes on the top of the chords, but the G# never should appear on this case (a C harmonized scale). So why that E7 is there? And what can i use there? Still need to read an try some stuff from the books, but later i think i will just play a sus2 or sus4 in the place, to avoid the damn 3rd


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 3, 2011)

Maybe I am not understanding you, but I don't see a problem. E7 is a secondary dominant. Its function here is V7/vi. That G# is the third of the chord, so don't use a sus2 or sus4 there. You're fine just doing what the leadsheet says.


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## Mvotre (Jun 3, 2011)

SchecterWhore said:


> Maybe I am not understanding you, but I don't see a problem. E7 is a secondary dominant. Its function here is V7/vi. That G# is the third of the chord, so don't use a sus2 or sus4 there. You're fine just doing what the leadsheet says.



hmmm.. that shows my level of noobness  I will try to refresh the theory about secondary dominants. 

thanks


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## celticelk (Jun 3, 2011)

Mvotre said:


> so i'm trying to learn some jazz, specially chord melody. Got some nice books wich i still need to study a lot, and got myself a fake book. Got this question:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The G# is an accidental, rather than a formal part of the key. It's not terribly unusual for jazz melodies to utilize accidentals out of the predominant key, and to harmonize accordingly. (Or to harmonize in-key notes out-of-key to achieve a harmonic effect - that C7 in measure 4 isn't in C major either, but it produces a strong V7-I resolution down to the IV chord in measure 5.) As SchecterWhore pointed out, the E7 here is a secondary dominant (V7/vi), and is in fact not uncommon in jazz - the harmonic resolution is borrowed from the A melodic minor scale, in which the i chord is actually Amin(maj7), utilizing that G#. Jazz harmony is quite a bit more complex than strict diatonic harmony, but pays off with some wonderfully rich sounds.


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## McCap (Jun 3, 2011)

> I will try to refresh the theory about secondary dominants.


Basically you can approach any chord with its dominant.

But here I wouldn't even call it secondary dominant as the song is in A minor and E7 is just the dominant. 
Actually in A minor the V chord is e minor but someday, someone thought that as a major V chord wants to resolve to the one more strongly than a minor V, that we should use a major V chord from now on. So he added a G# and there was his major V chord (or dominant). 
Sorry for the children tale style 

Oopss, sorry had overlooked celticelk's post, which already said most of the stuff...


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 3, 2011)

McCap said:


> But here I wouldn't even call it secondary dominant as the song is in A minor and E7 is just the dominant.



The progression of the first phrase is vi-ii-V-I in C major, then (ignoring the C7), the progression of the second phrase is VI-ii°-V-i in A minor. A minor is thoroughly tonicized, but I believe this song is overwhelmingly in C major.


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## Trespass (Jun 4, 2011)

Unlike the normal metal approach to improvisation/solo spots (lets play in one key forever with harmony/riffs that predominantly stay in that key), you should be thinking of the chords. There are two major approaches to this concept, and they sometimes spark debate, and represent a major shift in jazz history.

*Chord Tone approach* (Pre-Modal): Improvise melodies based on the tones of the chord and their extensions. See: Early bebop, 30s, 40s Jazz. Especially the music of Django Reinhardt

*Chord Scale approach* (Modal to Contemporary): Figure out the parent scale of all the chords, work out what modes to play over each chord (so that you emphasize the correct chord tones) and then improvise melodies moving through each chord as a different mode. 
(i.e. play D Dorian over ii, G Mixolydian over V, C Ionian over I - All are in the parent scale of C major)

IMHO poorly written article speaking about the difference: BERKLEE | Berklee Today

*I* lean towards the Chord tone approach because it easily allows the player to outline the chord you are currently soloing over, providing structure, and it allows you to pinpoint alterations and extensions melodically. You improvise melody using the immediate chord tones (1-3-5-7) and their extensions (9-11-13) and use chromatic passing tones and chromatic or diatonic enclosures to provide interest. 

This approach allows you to play over any set of chords thrown in front of you, whether they make diatonic sense or not.

Of course, use both methods to suit. Chord tone will make you sound open/arpeggio-y, chord scale will make you sound scalar - mix it up.

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Also: Fakebooks can have a lot of extra, unnecessary changes in them that you don't need. They are usually the most commonly played changes (so following some 50s recordings of Fly Me To the Moon might reflect the changes you have) but aren't always needed to express the tune. 






Example: The fourth measure has an unneeded Cmaj7 to C7, as well as a tritone subbed ii-V-I into F major in brackets. The Bm7b5 is another addition (a very common one), and is the ii7b5 of E7, starting a full minor 2-5-1 into the A minor chord (ii7b5-V7-i).

If you are playing chord melody, DEFINITELY keep those extra chords in. They provide great forward motion and strong harmonic rhythm, pulling the listener forward with added tension and motion. If you are soloing over these chords, you can actually ignore some of them (you can play what you would play over an E7 over the Bmi7b5 for instance, ignore the Cmaj to C7 etc.)


Ralph Patt's vanilla book is an online resource express the basic harmony of several standards, without the additional embellishments an arranger/editor of the book has added. 

http://www.ralphpatt.com/VBook.html


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## natyelverton (Jun 6, 2011)

Fly me to the moon is actually usually diatonic for a jazz tune. Commonly you'd get allot more examples of things like this E7.


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