# Good 4x12 cab on a budget???



## Lucas_061287 (Jan 2, 2011)

I searched, but it is suprising how often the words "cab" or "cabinet" and "budget" come up.

Anyway, I should be putting a Bugera 333XL on layaway tomorrow (yes, I'm usually broke lol). I have come to really like the Bugera head, despite the fact that it is Chinese made. I've been able to pull some pheonominal tones with it using the Carvin 4x12 demo cab (thats for sale).

My question is- what cab should I get? Should I get the Carvin, as it is less than $300, but I don't know much about Carvin quality? What about Line6? I've played a 5150 through a Line6 cab and it didn't sound too bad at all, but didn't have the same "oomph" that the Bugera does with the Carvin. This could be due to my current understanding of setting up tone or it could just be that Line6 cabs aren't up to snuff.

Any other suggestions for a good 4x12 cab in the under $400 range? I want something that will be reliable, have great sound/response, NOT rattle like crazy (like my old Crate did at 1/3 volume)... thats pretty much it. Slant or straight front aren't really a concern. 

Thanks for any assistance.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 2, 2011)

Carvins are of great quality. As long as it's not beat to crap it should be just fine. 

That being said, take a look on Craig's List and see if you can score a Marshall 1960A or 1960B.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 2, 2011)

It is in excellent shape actually. I want to say they only want like $220 for it? Could be wrong, I'll find out tomorrow though.

I'll definately look into the Marshall's you mentioned.


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## Rook (Jan 2, 2011)

Orange, H&K, and Marshall all go for very little money in this country. Particularly H&K, they seem to retain absolutely no value second hand.

Couldn't say if it was the same in the USA... Carvin is a win.


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## op1e (Jan 2, 2011)

Carvin cabs are good build quality, the cheaper ones I think they use their brand of speakers. Ya never know, have em check it and maybe they're Celestion. I love my rack but I'm starting to gas for a head again. I like the 333xl a lot, but the stupid din cable for the footswitch jack has me wondering. I would like to be able to change channels on a head with FCB 1010 relays and control my gsp 1101 at the same time, without having to invest in more rack switching gear.


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## Rook (Jan 2, 2011)

Get in touch with FJA, they make a dual TRS to 5 pin/7pin din cable for Peavey/Bugera switching by relays on G-Majors and FCB1010's.


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## op1e (Jan 2, 2011)

Ohhhh, I forgot about that.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 2, 2011)

op1e said:


> Carvin cabs are good build quality, the cheaper ones I think they use their brand of speakers. Ya never know, have em check it and maybe they're Celestion. I love my rack but I'm starting to gas for a head again. I like the 333xl a lot, but the stupid din cable for the footswitch jack has me wondering. I would like to be able to change channels on a head with FCB 1010 relays and control my gsp 1101 at the same time, without having to invest in more rack switching gear.


 
Yeah, I couldn't tell you what pricepoint or model this one was new, but regardless, it sounds excellent with the head.

As far as the 333XL is concerned- it suprised me to say the least. I plugged into it just preparing for "meh" tone, but once I started to tinker with it, MY GAWD!!! I was blown away. I'm an absolute tone whore and have only ever come minutely close to the tonegasm I had with the 333XL a few times before- once with a Mesa Dual Rec, once with a Peavey 6505, once with a Diezel Einstein... thats pretty much it lol. Seriously- astonishing tone for the price. Chances are you won't be disappointed. Also, Bugera should be releasing their own version of the Tripple Rectifier called the TRIREC or something. Looking forward to that as well.


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## op1e (Jan 2, 2011)

I really wanna hear that head with el34's in it. Been dying to try this 1101 thru that kinda power section. Was that 333xl loaded with those power tubes, supposed to be, stock? Also, will the crunch channel saturate enough to chug with? I had a Peavey Ultra and the Crunch channel sounded better than the Ultra + cut through better, but just didn't have enough for a metal rythm channel.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 2, 2011)

The 333XL comes with EL34's, their other model- the 333- comes with 6L6's.

As far as the crunch channel- its kinda "meh" for that sort of playing. The lead channel is what REALLY shines with this amp. Very chunky, seems to have tons of compression without the use of a compressor, and despite the fact that I tend to scoop mids, every note shines through just fine. I played a Stephen Carpenter LTD 607B and an EC-1000 through it and it sounded incredible.


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## grindgod (Jan 2, 2011)

Sometimes you can find a used Mesa Cab for 400, but usually theyre about 500. They in my opinion are the best on the market. the older Halfback cabs are killer too and a little less pricey generally.

If you get a Craven cab, make sure they have vintage 30s (or celestions in general). Marshall=Win, except for the valvestate cabs.
The Line 6 cabs usually came with V30s, hence the great tone. Good luck, hope this helps.

Craigslist should be your friend depending on where you are in TX


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## grindgod (Jan 2, 2011)

If your near or in Houston this is a great deal...
B52 AMP w/ MESA BOOGIE 4 12"HALF STACK

if in Austin area
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Guitar Cabinet
Marshall JCM 800 4x12 Cabinet
Mark IV Mesa Boogie Cabinet (4x12)

DFW
Mesa/Boogie Traditional 4x12
MARSHALL CABINET 4X12 MF280!!!


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow, thanks for that info, grindgod! I figured Mesa's would be in the $600+ realm. Definately eyeballing those two in Austin (hour drive for me, used to live there)

Also, I'll check out the Carvin cab closer tomorrow. If its loaded with Celestions, I'm gonna jump on it, if not, I'll consider either a used/new Mesa (through zzounds with the Play as you Pay) or maybe the Line6. 

Decesions decisions


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## smith10210 (Jan 2, 2011)

Yea mesa's and Marshall's are usually cheap used i would sell you my mesa for $400 if you where local i would even sell it unloaded for $200.


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## troyguitar (Jan 2, 2011)

The Jet City cabs are supposed to be pretty good and are $329 new


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## Soubi7string (Jan 2, 2011)

used section at Guitar Center or local music shop
always a win
and craigslist


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## Albionic (Jan 3, 2011)

i have a line6 cab and i'm pretty happy with it at £70 used it was too cheap not to buy. 
i've always fancied a marshall 1960 though but they are quite big


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## Rook (Jan 3, 2011)

Albionic said:


> i have a line6 cab and i'm pretty happy with it at £70 used it was too cheap not to buy.
> i've always fancied a marshall 1960 though but they are quite big



Not much bigger than a Line 6!

My 1960 cab was much lighter than a Line 6 cab, it was great for slinging in my boot and unloading at the other end.


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## Albionic (Jan 3, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Not much bigger than a Line 6!
> 
> My 1960 cab was much lighter than a Line 6 cab, it was great for slinging in my boot and unloading at the other end.


 
was in a band with a guy who had a marshall jmp-1 a 9200 a jfx1 and a 1960 was my first experience of 4x12's thats probably why i think of them as big. that was certainly a big sound 

one day i'll trade in the line6 for the 1960 but for the moment i'm happy with what i got


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## Rook (Jan 3, 2011)

Albionic said:


> i'm happy with what i got



So unusual to hear people say that, lol, I'm pleased for you


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## Thep (Jan 3, 2011)

To be honest, I wouldn't recommend trying to budget with cabinets. For one they are an extremely integral part of your tone. Secondly, they are so cumbersome and hard to sell or get rid of, you might as well do it right the first time. Thirdly, cheap cabinets look gay on stage.


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## Albionic (Jan 3, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> So unusual to hear people say that, lol, I'm pleased for you


 
thanks man whilst i realize none of my gear is top end it does the job 
i still dream of owning a triaxis and a 2.90 but for now they are out of my pricerange but i think i got the best rig i can ffor what i spent


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## op1e (Jan 3, 2011)

Thep said:


> To be honest, I wouldn't recommend trying to budget with cabinets. For one they are an extremely integral part of your tone. Secondly, they are so cumbersome and hard to sell or get rid of, you might as well do it right the first time. Thirdly, cheap cabinets look gay on stage.



My B52 LS412 was $210 on sale. Sounds way better than my 412ms did, and the 6505 cab my other guitarist uses, and looks far from gay on stage.


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## Rook (Jan 3, 2011)

Thep said:


> To be honest, I wouldn't recommend trying to budget with cabinets.



Very sensible statement



> For one they are an extremely integral part of your tone. Secondly, they are so cumbersome and hard to sell or get rid of, you might as well do it right the first time.



Absolutely agree



> Thirdly, cheap cabinets look gay on stage.



 That's more like the ss.org I know!


Nah I'm just fooling, I love this place, I've learned a great deal since I signed up.


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## Rook (Jan 3, 2011)

Albionic said:


> thanks man whilst i realize none of my gear is top end it does the job
> i still dream of owning a triaxis and a 2.90 but for now they are out of my pricerange but i think i got the best rig i can ffor what i spent



Triaxis and 2:90 is a beasty setup, I considered going that route before I bought my amp, but I decided I preferred the Mark IV. So I went out to buy my Mark IV - and travelled a long way to do so - and ended up leaving with my Roadster, lol!

Price isn't everything, though you have to take that with a pinch of salt cos my bank account had a bad day when I bought my amp.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 4, 2011)

Okay, so today was my big day! Went into the pawn shop where my precious setup sat, seemingly untouched since the last time I cranked her up. I plugged in the EC, dropped it to drop A#, and started to chug away for a few minutes. It was all I needed for the cash burning a hole in my pocket, so I put the whole setup on layaway- Bugera 333XL and -get this- the Carvin cabinet is actually the V412H model (i.e. 500w high energy, so I found after some google-fu). Thats not the best part- $627 after tax! Granted, I only dropped $200 to put it on layaway, but still, that seems like a great buy on my part!

First thing I'd like to do once I have the head- new tubes, as this thing has been at the pawn shop for a couple months now. I'd like to keep EL34's, but I'm not too sure what tubes to swap in (or how to do it for that matter). Any pointers?

GAH!!!! I'm really psyched about this guys


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## Wookieslayer (Jan 4, 2011)

Awesome man! Great score on both amp and cab.  

I think the Bugera should be able to accept 6l6 or el34's without biasing; there might be a flipswitch though.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 4, 2011)

Si, flipswitch for either on the back. I just like the sound of EL34's over 6L6's. As far as biasing- no idea where to begin on that one. Should probably have a pro set it up for me.


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## Ben.Last (Jan 4, 2011)

When I had my 333xl (still would, had it not been stolen) it sounded great through my Avatar 4x12. It's at the top of your price range but they're an incredible deal for how much they cost.

(Also, there is a switch for the tubes, but it does have to be rebiased)


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for the info on the Avatar, but I decided to snag the Carvin afterall.

As far as biasing- that is definately something for a pro to tackle, correct? This is my first tube amp, so forgive my lack of know-how.


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## Wookieslayer (Jan 4, 2011)

like, with the 333XL, you don't have to bias anything... just swap tubes! (and I'm not sure, but possibly flip a switch?) I wouldn't know which brand powertubes to buy, maybe JJ or Electro-Harmonix? Good luck dude.


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## Rook (Jan 4, 2011)

Lucas_061287 said:


> Okay, so today was my big day! Went into the pawn shop where my precious setup sat, seemingly untouched since the last time I cranked her up. I plugged in the EC, dropped it to drop A#, and started to chug away for a few minutes. It was all I needed for the cash burning a hole in my pocket, so I put the whole setup on layaway- Bugera 333XL and -get this- the Carvin cabinet is actually the V412H model (i.e. 500w high energy, so I found after some google-fu). Thats not the best part- $627 after tax! Granted, I only dropped $200 to put it on layaway, but still, that seems like a great buy on my part!
> 
> First thing I'd like to do once I have the head- new tubes, as this thing has been at the pawn shop for a couple months now. I'd like to keep EL34's, but I'm not too sure what tubes to swap in (or how to do it for that matter). Any pointers?
> 
> GAH!!!! I'm really psyched about this guys



I don't suggest changing tubes unless they actually don't work.

Tubes are nothing like strings; you put a set of string on and from the moment you start playing them they degrade and rust until they get to a point where they sound like crap. Tubes on the other hand start off very fizzy and rough and slowly settle in, they then get better and better until they day they die or just get too microphonic.

As I said, keep the tubes you have. I'd also say changing all the tubes at once is totally unnecessary, if you do want to play around, learn how to assess which tubes are further in their life cycle than others and replace those. Don't screw with an amp you already like, lol.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 4, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I don't suggest changing tubes unless they actually don't work.
> 
> Tubes are nothing like strings; you put a set of string on and from the moment you start playing them they degrade and rust until they get to a point where they sound like crap. Tubes on the other hand start off very fizzy and rough and slowly settle in, they then get better and better until they day they die or just get too microphonic.
> 
> As I said, keep the tubes you have. I'd also say changing all the tubes at once is totally unnecessary, if you do want to play around, learn how to assess which tubes are further in their life cycle than others and replace those. Don't screw with an amp you already like, lol.


 Thank you! This is the kind of advice I really need, considering my n00bness on the subject lol.


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## dsgn09 (Jan 4, 2011)

I used to have an avatar 4x12 with v30's in it. Paid $200 or so for it, and it was awesome.

Thing was awesome.


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## Ben.Last (Jan 5, 2011)

Lucas_061287 said:


> Thanks for the info on the Avatar, but I decided to snag the Carvin afterall.
> 
> As far as biasing- that is definately something for a pro to tackle, correct? This is my first tube amp, so forgive my lack of know-how.



You CAN do it yourself. You need to get the equipment and I'd recommend at the very least watching some tutorials online. In all honesty, if the amp hasn't been biased at all yet, I'd recommend doing it or having it done even if you don't change tubes. I don't know when yours was manufactured or if Bugera has finally worked out ALL the bugs but, initially, the amps were ending up having problems because they were being sent out biased horribly from the factory.

Also, I don't know if I agree with the advice not to change tubes IN THIS CASE. The tubes are definitely an area where Bugera skimped. It was pretty unanimous, when I was still keeping aware of info relating to the brand, that a tube change to a higher quality brand garnered huge improvements.



Wookieslayer said:


> like, with the 333XL, you don't have to bias anything... just swap tubes!



This is incorrect.


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## Wookieslayer (Jan 5, 2011)

^my bad... I was going off some info I read that theres a bias switch on the 333XL for converting to 6L6  I guess you still need to read the bias with a meter...


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## Ben.Last (Jan 5, 2011)

Wookieslayer said:


> ^my bad... I was going off some info I read that theres a bias switch on the 333XL for converting to 6L6  I guess you still need to read the bias with a meter...



There is a switch to change from el34s to 6l6s but, yeah, each new tube should still be biased unless the person really doesn't care at all about it being set correctly.


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 5, 2011)

Lern2swim said:


> You CAN do it yourself. You need to get the equipment and I'd recommend at the very least watching some tutorials online. In all honesty, if the amp hasn't been biased at all yet, I'd recommend doing it or having it done even if you don't change tubes. I don't know when yours was manufactured or if Bugera has finally worked out ALL the bugs but, initially, the amps were ending up having problems because they were being sent out biased horribly from the factory.
> 
> Also, I don't know if I agree with the advice not to change tubes IN THIS CASE. The tubes are definitely an area where Bugera skimped. It was pretty unanimous, when I was still keeping aware of info relating to the brand, that a tube change to a higher quality brand garnered huge improvements.
> 
> ...


 
I'll definately look into setting up the bias correctly. As of now, it sounds absolutely fantastic. I mentioned changing tubes because who knows how many 'tards came in, plugged up, turned it on, and started shredding away without letting the tubes warm up. I'd just rather "start new", despite buying used. But yeah, I totally understand what you mean- I also read the same regarding Bugera tubes being "meh". Want to say I read about a guy who swapped for some of the EL34 tubes Mesa uses which garnered a huge improvement.

Anyway, I can't say this enough- thank you guys! You've been a huge help.


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## Metal_Late (Jan 6, 2011)

I say tube changes make a lot of differences with 333xl (currently own one).
Stock tubes are stiff and thin sounding (had them half year).
When I changed them to svelana winged c and couple of weeks from now to tungsol EL38B they have very great response and sound.

Try Tungsol preamp and power tubes. JJ preamp tubes sound allmost too dark for me, I have only tested preamp tubes.

Now running
V1 Tungsol
V2 JJ ECC803S
V3 Tungsol
V4 JJ ECC83
2x Tungsol EL34B


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## myampslouder (Jan 6, 2011)

Get a Marshall mf400 or mf280 cab. They are great and have been popping.g up all over for around 350


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## Sepultorture (Jan 6, 2011)

certain cheap cabs sound pretty good or decent, the JSX and XXX cabs rom peavey are probably made of mostly or all MDF board, and their own in house speakers. but for the most part, budget cabs are indeed shit. i wouldn't buy a cab with even a stick of MDF in it, i love all Birch ply cabs, the thicker the ply the better (13 or 14 ply).

it's usually a good idea to get a cab with all ply constructionm and decent speakers


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## myampslouder (Jan 6, 2011)

If I remember correctly the carvin V412H is actually a bass cab just so ya know. I almost bought one a few months ago. As long as it sounds good is all that matters though congrats dude on the sweet deal. The 333xl is a sick amp


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## Lucas_061287 (Jan 7, 2011)

^Yeah, I saw that somewhere too. Meh, oh well! I love the way it sounds. Want to say it is 8ohms but I could be wrong. I'll have to figure that out.


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