# My drummer needs a totally metal sounding drum kit but knows nothing about drums!



## sakeido (Mar 13, 2007)

So we're gearing up for the summer and actually starting to play gigs with our band and stuff. My drummer is totally sick, so good, but his drum kit is weaksauce. He's like those youtube shredder freaks you see playing squires and stuff, and as much as the tone comes from the player, I think he's hit the top end of what he can accomplish with his current drum kit haha..

Mostly its just the flabby bass drum, but the toms are pretty weak too. The snare is good though. What would you guys recommend as far as a metal sounding drum kit goes?


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## 77matecocido77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Sonor kits are solid metal kits if you ask me. its a little pricey but they last you especially the hardware!


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## metalking (Mar 13, 2007)

tama are ment to be pretty metal i think


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2007)

I jammed with a guy a long time ago who had a pretty decent sounding DW kit.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 13, 2007)

Honestly, it's like a guitar dude. It just depends on what you like, different woods for the shell, different ways to mount the toms to the bass drum, or a rack setup, etc. If his current bass drum sounds like shit, try different padding inside the drum, retuning, etc. Maybe he doesn't even need a new kit, maybe he just needs his properly setup. If he's set on getting a nicer kit though, tell him to go in and fuck around on some drums and check out the hardware.


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## bulb (Mar 14, 2007)

metal eh?
what kind of kit does he have?
if he has something cheap tell him to get remo pinstripes for the toms, an evans emad for the bass drum and depending on the snare either a remo emperor x (if its a metal snare) or a regular ambassador (if its a wood snare) but then again that depends on the sound you are going for.


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## Jon (Mar 14, 2007)

Brah, go Pearl!


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## TomAwesome (Mar 14, 2007)

Whatever he gets, make sure he knows (or at least learns) how to properly put on and tune the drum heads. I've seen great equipment sound like ass because of this being done improperly, and then when someone that knows what they're doing gets to it, it sounds great. Drum heads are like guitar strings.


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## cadenhead (Mar 14, 2007)

TomAwesome said:


> Whatever he gets, make sure he knows (or at least learns) how to properly put on and tune the drum heads. I've seen great equipment sound like ass because of this being done improperly, and then when someone that knows what they're doing gets to it, it sounds great. Drum heads are like guitar strings.



+1

My old drummer has a killer vintage kit, but it always sounded like ass because he never wanted to buy good heads. Once he got some decent heads and put different padding in the bass drum, It sounded awesome.

I wish I could afford a DW kit though. I played around with one at GC, and fell in love.


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## sakeido (Mar 14, 2007)

bulb said:


> metal eh?
> what kind of kit does he have?
> if he has something cheap tell him to get remo pinstripes for the toms, an evans emad for the bass drum and depending on the snare either a remo emperor x (if its a metal snare) or a regular ambassador (if its a wood snare) but then again that depends on the sound you are going for.



He's got something like a Pearl exports set I think, but its got a very small bass drum. I'll ask him about what size drums he's got and what they are made out of and post it back on here.


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## Stretchnutz (Mar 14, 2007)

is there any thing inside tha bass drum to dampen it, it should be more of a thud than a boom, try this(oldskool move) put a old pillow inside tha bass drum right up against the head where the kick beater hits, have the pillow layed flat across the bottom but up against the inside of the head.....try this site(http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?catalogId=10021&storeId=10051 when i was a drummer i used to buy all my gear from them



JJ Rodriguez said:


> Honestly, it's like a guitar dude. It just depends on what you like, different woods for the shell, different ways to mount the toms to the bass drum, or a rack setup, etc. If his current bass drum sounds like shit, try different padding inside the drum, retuning, etc. Maybe he doesn't even need a new kit, maybe he just needs his properly setup. If he's set on getting a nicer kit though, tell him to go in and fuck around on some drums and check out the hardware.


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## bulb (Mar 14, 2007)

ok if he has a pearl export then get the heads i told you to, and remember that tuning the heads properly plays a HUGE part in how everything sounds.
my drummer has a pearl export that sounds like a maple kit because he knows just how to tune his heads right and pick the right heads for his playing style and sound!


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## DSS3 (Mar 14, 2007)

I like Powerstroke 3 batter heads, usually with a falam pad for click.

I also really dig the same Powerstrokes on snare top, and clear Emperors for toms.


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## bulb (Mar 15, 2007)

powerstrokes are good, but those sound better on better kits and if you know how to tune your kit.
if you need an easy solution, emad and pinstripes are the easy way out!


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## eaeolian (Mar 15, 2007)

Hey, where's Oogadee Boogadee and Crooks (although he doesn't know about cheap  ) when you need them?


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## noodles (Mar 15, 2007)

Good call, Mike. I dropped James a line and told him to respond when he's online next.


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Mar 15, 2007)

okay bitches, i'm here.

option 1: do what all broke-ass touring national metal bands do (minus the minority wealthy like metallica): don't worry about renting/buying a high-end kit until you're ready to record, and just trigger a shitty sounding kit for live use, that you don&#8217;t mind getting dinged up.

Btw, I hate triggers.

here are some random rambles:
-The deeper the shell, the louder the drum.
-The deeper the shell, the slower the drum will reach peak volume.
-The larger the diameter, the lower the pitch
-The lower the pitch, the harder it is for the sound to project and carry - then you have to hit really really hard, which is tough if you&#8217;re playing really really fast (so trigger like a cheater)
-Overall bigger shells limit drum positioning (look how Lombardo has to angle his shells because of their size, and his lack of size - Lars&#8217; old white tama kit is another example).
-double ply heads - more durable, slightly fatter sound, slightly lower pitch. Good for metal drumming since you can tune them up for good stick response, but have the sonic qualities I just mentioned. A little more attack too, since the slower and shorter resonance cuts out the higher overtones, revealing the lower undertones.
-single ply heads - a little louder&#8230;. And mostly the opposite of what I stated about double ply heads. The higher overtones are uninhibited, so you&#8217;ll have to muffle them a little more if you want a short and fat sound and attack.

Check out guys like Dave Lombardo and Paul Bostaph. No triggers, and monster sized shells. They play fast. They get over the slower sounding and less projecting of their monster sized shells buy tuning higher. Higher head tension = more rebound, and a higher pitch that projects and cuts better. Nick Barker&#8230; plays dinky 20&#8221; kicks&#8230; but he&#8217;s a trigger whore. He sounds (and looks) like Godzilla behind the kit b/c he&#8217;s basically playing an electronic drumkit.

Then, there&#8217;s wood variables. They aren&#8217;t as big a deal to me, since the differences you can notice between woods are hard to hear in a live situation. They are easy to overcome with head selection, top/bottom head tuning combos, bearing edge shape, shell diameter & depth, and a deaf soundman. But, the general rule is: Birch - fast sound, a little sharper, and I think maybe more higher overtones. Maple - warmer and more of a bassy thud. Slower to sound and open up&#8230; maybe fatter, etc. Don&#8217;t buy the current hype that maple is the way to go. A couple of decades ago, the praise was in birch anyway. And arguably, the best drum sounds ever recorded were from that long-gone era&#8230; with older and &#8220;outdated&#8221; drum construction and recording technology. So, fuck all the hype. If you ask me, a high-end kit is so because it&#8217;s versatile in the sounds it can achieve. 

My route - I bought a Premier GenX. Layers of maple plies sandwiched between layers of Birch. Or maybe it was the other way around. Regardless, I just went the middle ground - and in my sizes too. I went for versatility b/c I knew at the time of the purchase that I would keep the kit for a long time - long enough for me to change bands and genres.

Another factor: tuning for recording vs tuning for live sound. Metal sounding drums have the low pounding thunder of a pitch and tone. You&#8217;ll hear this on a recording. Live, you wont hear shit. It&#8217;ll be like a tube-amp modeler. So, worry about &#8220;metal sounding&#8221; kits when it comes to recording. I made the mistake for a couple shows, early on in Division, where I tuned really low, going for that fat-assed thump. First song hits (11th Hour) that features many rolls on the toms. I hear my snare, and when I hit the toms, everything disappears. Talking about a sinking feeling 2 bars into the night! Worse yet, the stage lights then proceeded to warm my kit up, expanding the heads and further dropping their pitch. They were loose enough to jump off my shells and walk to the bar. They might as well have, since nobody else heard them for the rest of the night. I now tune in anticipation of pitch-dropping as the night progresses and the stagelights cook my kit.

If you want a metal sounding kit, just get a versatile kit and be smart about how you tune it. Metal is in how you play anyway&#8230;. You can put Jack DeJohnette on Vinnie Paul&#8217;s kit and I bet he sounds like a jazz guy playing a standard drumset. I play 2 different crap kits at rehearsal and I think I make them sound &#8220;metal&#8221;.

If your fortunate to have a house PA with close mic&#8217;d drums, then that can help them sound huge. We opened for Into Eternity last year. Their drummer played a POS kit that, when the front-of-house sound kicked in the PA&#8217;s&#8230; it sounded bigger than I expected it too&#8230; and he wasn&#8217;t a basher either. Of course you don&#8217;t want to be dependent on mics since you wont always have them, and since there&#8217;s always the chance for technical difficulties&#8230;. Another reason why I don&#8217;t like triggers btw.

The shared kit at the ProgPower festival last year was a Pacific kit. That&#8217;s DW&#8217;s entry level kit. It sounded massive b/c who ever set it up knew how to tune it, and the venue had great sound.

Bah, I&#8217;m totally rambling. Sorry - it&#8217;s late 

Any mid-line kit will do fine for metal. Just get double ply heads, tune higher than you think you need, and don&#8217;t hit like a girl.

If I were to buy a new kit, I wouldn&#8217;t upgrade over my Gen-X. I&#8217;d go along the same route - replace it with a higher mid-line kit. It sounds metal, but it doesn&#8217;t look it b/c of it&#8217;s glitter gray finish. 







Actually, my number 1 concern is durability; especially in the hardware. Then I consider sound&#8230; and knowing that most midline kits can sound awesome with making the right tuning decisions, this usually isn&#8217;t even a problem. I&#8217;ve heard mega metal looking kits sound like dogfarts (st anger anybody?) 

DDrum has some lower priced kits.. their newer in the acoustic drum market. I&#8217;ve seen their stuff at GC lately, and have been really impressed with their sound vs cost and they look great too. Drover, of Megadeth, recently picked up a DDrum endorsement. Why he dropped Pearl for DDrum is beyond me&#8230; maybe dean&#8217;s parent company owns them but now I&#8217;m just making stuff up.

oh, i forgot to mention - another reason why i tune higher for live shows is because we're a sevenstring band. i dont' want to compete for the same frequencies as Dave/Mike/Ron by producing inaudible muddy bitch farts. i want to cut through these guys without interfering with them. it's back to that argument of modeling amps verse real live-worthy tube amps. it's tonal presences vs what sounds good solo in a bedroom recording studio.

shit, another thing.... a lot of the metal sound is going to come from your snare and ride cymbal as well. thse, with the kicks, will literally receive the most beatings. Pearl's aluminum UltraCast snare is one of the best bang-for-your bucks out there... and it's not budget gear either. A heavy ride is one that can match the rest of the kit in volume... especially loudassed chinas. smart drummers select cymbals with balance in mind. loudass high hats will make the guitarists turn their rigs up too loud (so get sweet sounding musical ones - trust me, they'll still be heard, big time). loud ass chinas will make your crashes inaudible. a wimpy ride will sound like the sound is dropping out when you go from riding the hats to riding the ride. Ziljdian A Custom crashes from 17" to 18" are fast in sound, a medium decay and volume, and some of the most musical and versatile crashes out there. Totally underated for rock and metal... everybody thinks their for cotempory pop rock like Dave Mathews Band or something. IMO Paiste makes the cleanest non-gongy rides out there... but this is TOTALLY subjective. Chinas are always ugly, no matter the brand or the price. In other words - it's very subjective. i like Igor's china sounds in Chaos AD (zildjian oriental trashes), so that's what I bought. it's like a "cawwww" sound. Van Williams - his China sounds in the opening moments of the Final Product in This Godless Endeavor is pretty cool... it sounds like a stadium of people clapping their hands in quarter note time.... Then there's the "cahhh" sound of zidjian china boys... and the weird cymbal sounds of Death's 'the sound of perserverance" (richard christy). point is...... chinas are personal... but every metal kit needs chinas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Durero (Mar 16, 2007)

Anyone have any experience playing the Roland TD-20 electronic kits?
I've heard great things about them for recording, but anyone here use them live?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 16, 2007)

No, but I'm about to get an e-kit with pintech mesh pads and a Roland TD-3 brain, just for practice so I don't wake everyone up. Just picked up a 3 sided pearl rack for $125 off some dude. Not a fancy one, but came with 8 clamps and that's way more than I need


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## lailer75 (Mar 16, 2007)

Durero said:


> Anyone have any experience playing the Roland TD-20 electronic kits?
> I've heard great things about them for recording, but anyone here use them live?



my drummer uses the td-12 brain(very similar to the td-20) just to trigger his kicks(they are set up acousticly as well) and it sound awesome.there are alot of trigger bashers out there, but coming from a guitarist point of veiw i wouldn`t have it anyother way!!!


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 16, 2007)

Your drummer invested in a TD-12 brain just for his kicks? Damn, that's a shit load of money just for kicks.


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## sakeido (Mar 16, 2007)

What are you guys talking about when you say "triggering?"


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## Stretchnutz (Mar 16, 2007)

Oogadee Boogadee said:


> okay bitches, i'm here.
> 
> option 1: do what all broke-ass touring national metal bands do (minus the minority wealthy like metallica): don't worry about renting/buying a high-end kit until you're ready to record, and just trigger a shitty sounding kit for live use, that you dont mind getting dinged up.
> 
> ...



Someone should sticky this...it a lot of GOOD info for drummers!

and I would rock that glittery kit!


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## lailer75 (Mar 16, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Your drummer invested in a TD-12 brain just for his kicks? Damn, that's a shit load of money just for kicks.



i know, this guy must have 10 grand invested in his kit(including his brain,amp,and monitor) i`ll post some pics, it`s killer. i`m just glad i didn`t want to play drums, i`d have live in a dumpster!!!


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Mar 17, 2007)

i'm curious - i'll do the math later, but i wonder where I'm coming out. I'm guessing that 10K is nothing for a typical sized metal kit such as the one I got in the pic up there, even w/o the second bassdrum and the hihat floor tom - both of which i never play.


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## skinhead (Mar 17, 2007)

Hey. i used to have a drummer that used a CB kit, they sound very metal, and it was very solid. He used Remo Encore and sabian cymbals. That was crazy, i can't ever know how the fuck he sounds like that with those Remo Encore


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## Nick1 (Mar 18, 2007)

ROCKETSHELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE THE BEST EVER! You wont regret them! I swear! Do your self a favor and check them out! They are increadable!


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Mar 18, 2007)

"rocket baby.... gitar"


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## Shannon (Mar 18, 2007)

sakeido said:


> Mostly its just the flabby bass drum, but the toms are pretty weak too. The snare is good though. What would you guys recommend as far as a metal sounding drum kit goes?


Sounds like it's not the kit so much as it is his abilities to TUNE his drums.


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## sakeido (Mar 18, 2007)

I went and talked to him some more today and he's got old ass single ply heads so I think we'll blame those first. We mucked around with them a bunch and still couldn't get a good tone.

Its definitely not the kit itself though - its a Pearl Sessions Select or something, all I could remember is that is multi-ply with either maple or birch and then mahogany in it too! So they should sound awesome with new heads and a new bass drum.


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Mar 19, 2007)

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

he needs to go there and learn and practice. tuning practice is a total bitch... but essential.

tune a lug up to pitch, not down to it. It's just like guitar. if a lug sounds lower than the rest, then bring it up. Sometimes, it has to come way up. if a lug is higher than the rest, of course, bring it down; but after that, and after giving it a good press with the hand to eat up any slack, then raise the tension on the surrounding lugs to bring them up the the lug that was higher. Basically, try to meet in the middle. 

that's the general jist for me... mute one head while tuning the head that i'm focusing on, using the general stuff above. but start with the tuning bible in the link. 

the hardest part is knowing if what you're hearing is 'right' or 'wrong'.

Achieve uniform pitch at all lugs on a given head first. Then do the same on the other head, achieving the same pitch. Then worry about whether or not that overal pitch is too high or too low, then go from there.

once you learn how to tune and what to hear, then you can pretty much get a lug-uniform pitch at a very low note, then gradual add tension to each lug till you get the note you really want. 


also, since the smaller the drum, the shorter the sustain, i tend to have uniform maching reso/batter head pitches on my small toms, and tight reso / looser batter combos on my larger toms. The former combo increases the sustaine of my smaller toms, while the latter shortens it on my big toms. Plus, on the big toms, i'm hoping the higher tones on the bottom head carry out more to the crowd, while the lower note of the batter head that's picked up by the close-mic is then projected to the crowd via the PA system. I'm trying to achieve a balance in the sound characteristics of my drums from high to low, when it comes down to it... but always keep live-show projection in mind, even if the sound is not what i want when it comes to studio recording.


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## Sebastian (Apr 8, 2007)

Great....


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## metal_pandaa_x (Jun 17, 2007)

Tama are pretty fucking sick. I also find that sonor are pretty good too.


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