# Carvin Vader



## jc986

Any ideas what this could be? They posted this on Facebook just a little while ago.


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## gigawhat

The first thing that comes to mind is a 7-string V.


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## Matthew

To add some context:


> Ok, exciting news....
> The latest and great design from Jeff Kiesel is being released before the NAMM show even starts. Each day we will be removing a square to unveil more of the image. We will be posting a new version each day for the next 10 days...



So, new 7 string model for sure. Perhaps an LP style single cut or one of the other shapes they do. Maybe something totally new.

Either way


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## jc986

Hoping it's a 27" scale, whatever shape it ends up being.


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## ovlott

Related to the topic being discussed over in the ERG subforum of a Carvin 8 headless, This may be just the 7 string version. We'll have to see though for sure. 

I hope they dont spend the first 3 days showing the space beneath and on top of the neck lol


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## Splenetic

A seven string V.


DOOOO EEEEETTT KIEESEEEEL


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## jc986

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> A seven string V.
> 
> 
> DOOOO EEEEETTT KIEESEEEEL



I could get down with a V as long as the lower horn isn't longer than the upper one. I think their current V shape just looks weird. I'm sure it balances fine, but the aesthetics are strange to me.


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## xwmucradiox

jc986 said:


> Hoping it's a 27" scale, whatever shape it ends up being.



There's enough fretboard there that someone could scale a picture of one of their 27" necks so the diamonds are the same size and figure out the scale length.


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## HighGain510

xwmucradiox said:


> There's enough fretboard there that someone could scale a picture of one of their 27" necks so the diamonds are the same size and figure out the scale length.



IIRC aren't all their inlays the same size regardless of the model? I know guys have complained about the blocks and "signature" (the sperm-like ones ) being the same size for an 8 string as they used on the 6'ers, I wouldn't think the diamonds are any different.


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## xwmucradiox

HighGain510 said:


> IIRC aren't all their inlays the same size regardless of the model? I know guys have complained about the blocks and "signature" (the sperm-like ones ) being the same size for an 8 string as they used on the 6'ers, I wouldn't think the diamonds are any different.



That's why I suggested scaling an image of one of their other fretboards so the diamonds are the same size.

If the frets match then you know the scale length. If they don't then you also know the scale length as they only offer two scales for their ERGs.


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## Discoqueen

It looks like one of those finger exercising dohickeys to me.


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## mnemonic

Yay my nerd skills come in handy for once. If you don't want spoilers, skip this post.










scrolling...












that should be enough room. 






Disclaimer: I'm by no means a pro at photoshop, so I may be making some wrong assumptions but;

1.) Headstock doesn't fit in their image here, so it must be headless.

2.) I lined up the 11th/12th frets and the size of the diamond inlays, and the further-out frets don't match, so it must be a 27" scale. Could be some other scale, but I don't know how to extrapolate that far, and I don't know if the image is high enough resolution to make any solid claims of a longer-than-27" scale.


Exploded image with increased opacity so you can see where the frets start to not line up


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## xwmucradiox




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## cardinal

Well, if it's headless that eliminates one of my Carvin gripes right off the bat (I'm not fond of any of their headstock shapes).


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## mnemonic

27" scale it is!

As if the DC7x didn't make me wish Carvin sorted out their European distribution, this makes the lack of affordable new Carvins in the UK even harder to bare.


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## ChrisH

mnemonic said:


> 1.) Headstock doesn't fit in their image here, so it must be headless.
> 
> 2.) I lined up the 11th/12th frets and the size of the diamond inlays, and the further-out frets don't match, so it must be a 27" scale. Could be some other scale, but I don't know how to extrapolate that far, and I don't know if the image is high enough resolution to make any solid claims of a longer-than-27" scale.
> Exploded image with increased opacity so you can see where the frets start to not line up




While I am neither confirming or denying anything here....


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## mnemonic

I kind of feel bad actually. Like I'm ruining things for whoever came up with the way of revealing the picture. Unless we're all being trolled and its just a DC7x in a poorly-cropped picture. 

Though I am dying to see what the body looks like.


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## xwmucradiox

mnemonic said:


> I kind of feel bad actually. Like I'm ruining things for whoever came up with the way of revealing the picture. Unless we're all being trolled and its just a DC7x in a poorly-cropped picture.
> 
> Though I am dying to see what the body looks like.



Carvin plays these games because they LOVE engaged consumers. I'm sure they'll be stoked.


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## fps

mnemonic said:


> 27" scale it is!
> 
> As if the DC7x didn't make me wish Carvin sorted out their European distribution, this makes the lack of affordable new Carvins in the UK even harder to bare.



This times a thousand. If they still dealt directly with customers here in the UK I'd own at least one more Carvin by now. That's no lie, either.


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## ChrisH

Alls I gotsta say, there are BIG changes coming soon and it's not just a few new models.


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## mnemonic

fps said:


> This times a thousand. If they still dealt directly with customers here in the UK I'd own at least one more Carvin by now. That's no lie, either.



As much as I think they're missing out on a potentially big market, they seem to have their plate full just dealing with the continental US. Hopefully in the next few years they will extend their factory or something, so they have capacity to burn for Europe.


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## jwade

I'm curious if this is gong to be a somewhat strandberg-esque guitar. The space wouldn't really fit a standard sized V, but the SC7 body seems to fit.


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## asher

I think a headless mod SC7 would be pretty sweet, myself.


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## jerm

I hope there's some 25.5" new stuff, 27" is too long for B standard!


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## fps

jerm said:


> I hope there's some 25.5" new stuff, 27" is too long for B standard!


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## Curt

Dammit, Chris. Don't tease me like this.


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## gunshow86de

Okay, so the cutaway at the bottom means it's almost definitely headless, right?


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## MoshJosh

I'm liking this


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## kevdes93

IBS HABBEDIG


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## celticelk

Well, it's almost certainly not a V, based on that photo.


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## xwmucradiox

27" scale headless 7 string with all the standard Carvin options. Rad! Would love to see a 6 string variation too!


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## MBMoreno

Hot damn... I give up on wanting one guitar at a time


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## daveyisgreat

Looks like a 7-string Holdsworth model to me...


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## JoshuaKaroshi

Hopefully they implement this design over to an 8 as well. I'd be SO down


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## ChrisH

Also, before anyone jumps to any conclusions Vader does not abbreviate to HH7 and Allan still does not play ERGs.


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## Adam Of Angels

It's either headless or extremely ugly, so I'm thinking it's a headless


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## russmuller

My body is ready, but my wallet is not.


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## Forkface

its starting to look awfully close to this.





...and i approve of that.


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## porknchili

Forkface said:


> its starting to look awfully close to this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and i approve of that.



Yeah, I was gonna say that from Jeff's teaser on instagram that it would be a Steinberger GM4 shaped headless.


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## Opion

ChrisH said:


> While I am neither confirming or denying anything here....



You bastard 

This is going to be an interesting reveal, Carvin is really stepping up their game recently! 27" scales are pretty rad, but headless would be an even better treat!


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## Cloudy

I approve so much yes. Chris I almost guarantee you will be receiving a call from me post NAMM


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## mbardu

Current most likely specs in my opinion : 27" scale 7 or 8 strings. Neck through flat top solid body (no carve or semi hollow business) 

That would certainly make many people happy.


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## Overtone

jerm said:


> I hope there's some 25.5" new stuff, 27" is too long for B standard!



I find your lack of faith disturbing...


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## TheWarAgainstTime

Headless 27" scale 7?  rad!


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## ChrisH

Someone just sent me this hahaha


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## MatthewK

Any idea what hardware they would be using on this?


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## celticelk

MatthewK said:


> Any idea what hardware they would be using on this?



Hipshot seems like the smart money.


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## Ocara-Jacob

Oh. Oh my. Color me excited. I might have to sell a couple guitars...


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## atrfan1

I spoke to Jeff a bit over facebook about 6 months ago, and he did say they were considering doing a symmetrical V, but they didnt want to make any announcements at the time. Really hoping that's what it is!

Edit: Now that I've seen the pic that gunshow posted, I think I'm very wrong


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## Negav

I bet it will be something like....



The DC-steinberger

Edit: forgive the bad 'shop haha.


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## Greenbrettiscool

Ohhhh man this is gonna hurt my wallet..


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## MrHelloGuitar

MS paint skillz


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## HBR

oh oh oh oh oh oh. This is looking good.


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## Nlelith

One more guitar on a GAS list...


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## geetar_geek79

I dunno why, but this person came to mind...


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## terron

like this, but seven strings?


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## MBMoreno

terron said:


> like this, but seven strings?



The shape is definitely different, or at least it seems to be


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## celticelk

terron said:


> like this, but seven strings?



Unlikely. They've said flat-out that it's not a 7-string HH, and if Carvin's going to launch a headless, the smart move in this market is to make it a superstrat. If we're lucky, maybe we'll see non-superstrat variations in the future, depending on how well this one does, and also the SCB7 and TL70.


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## HighGain510

Yep they've made it abundantly clear (despite much protesting from yours truly, I assure you! ) that short of Holdsworth starting to go ERG and wanting that as an update to his sig model, we won't be seeing an HH-7 any time soon.  That being said, if it's essentially like the DC shape with the cutout on the butt like a steinberger, 27" scale 7 string (and I'm guessing also an 8?)... I might be in for one.  This is actually kinda good news, a couple of the other guitars I was considering for 2015 have necks that won't work for me but this... this my friends will do nicely.   Guess I'm going to have to give Chris a call after NAMM...


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## stevexc

HighGain510 said:


> Yep they've made it abundantly clear (despite much protesting from yours truly, I assure you! ) that short of Holdsworth starting to go ERG and wanting that as an update to his sig model, we won't be seeing an HH-7 any time soon.



In fairness, they technically could roll out a headless extended scale TL70 which would be fairly similar to a hypothetical HH-7. Although I'd VASTLY prefer a headless superstrat.


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## ChrisH

geetar_geek79 said:


> I dunno why, but this person came to mind...



lol!!!!


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## gunshow86de

Man, I was way off..................


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## canuck brian

If it's a 7 string headless, i'm really hoping they don't go with the body they use on the 6 string headless they build.


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## lewstherin006

gunshow86de said:


> Man, I was way off..................



This is something I can get behind.


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## ChrisH

gunshow86de said:


> Man, I was way off..................



I love this. Sorry guys, we are postponing the release of the Vader so there will be no new model at NAMM. It will be on hold until we get the guitar looking like this.


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## Enselmis

canuck brian said:


> If it's a 7 string headless, i'm really hoping they don't go with the body they use on the 6 string headless they build.



Looking at the top left of that picture, it seems as though it's already different in how it curves in. Not much to go on but the HH has a pretty distinct shape there.

Also, I'm sitting here refreshing this page all afternoon.


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## asher

ChrisH said:


> I love this. Sorry guys, we are postponing the release of the Vader so there will be no new model at NAMM. It will be on hold until we get the guitar looking like this.



"[We] are altering the terms of our agreement. Pray [we] don't alter them any further."


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## Electric Wizard

asher said:


> "[We] are altering the terms of our agreement. Pray [we] don't alter them any further."


Carvin Lando sig confirmed.


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## celticelk

Enselmis said:


> Looking at the top left of that picture, it seems as though it's already different in how it curves in. Not much to go on but the HH has a pretty distinct shape there.
> 
> Also, I'm sitting here refreshing this page all afternoon.



Not to mention all of the explicit statements by Carvin that they're not making an HH7, including mentions in this thread.


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## Forrest_H

I have nothing to add other than my sleep deprived coworker's thoughts on the headless Carvin


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## SeditiousDissent

ChrisH said:


> I love this. Sorry guys, we are postponing the release of the Vader so there will be no new model at NAMM. It will be on hold until we get the guitar looking like this.


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## Enselmis

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10419954_906418312715866_3989064590516688004_n.jpg?oh=a8280ba4cc1f372e493e5d33ca2b6127&oe=553F8027&__gda__=1428620694_f48c3f0156489a4c2ae4b966b5ca33f3

I'm hoping the 6 string is regular scale, personally.


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## stevexc

Bari 6? More evidence away from single-cut at very least.


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## celticelk

stevexc said:


> Bari 6? More evidence away from single-cut at very least.



I'm not sure how that follows.


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## MatthewK

That makes me so happy. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm a 6-string dude and I've been silently hoping this whole time they'd do a 6-string version as well. 

Edit: Forgot about scale length. Please lord let it be no longer than 25.5.


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## stevexc

celticelk said:


> I'm not sure how that follows.



Sorry, was typing with one hand - was gonna try and go back and elaborate before anyone caught that 

My logic is that if there's a 6-string version, chances are a) it's going to have similar specs as the 7 and 8 string versions and b) it's going to be different than an existing 6-string guitar.

Following from a), we've pretty well decided that it's going to be a baritone, as the frets line up with the DC800 posted earlier, so it's possible that the 6-string version will also be baritone. Of course, there's the issue with the DC series, as the 800 and 700 are different scale lengths. Also a headless baritone 6 is a niche-within-a-niche so this one's probably just out entirely.

Then from b), it seems to be more likely that they'll make an entirely different model than the HH2 if they're making a 6-string version, as a 6-string singlecut headless is pretty much just a Holdsworth. It would make more sense to have something fairly different rather than direct competition.

Neither one is exactly a strong argument, and I'm not intending them to be... they're both conclusions I pretty quickly jumped to while half-paying attention to my wife when she called me at work


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## celticelk

stevexc said:


> My logic is that if there's a 6-string version, chances are a) it's going to have similar specs as the 7 and 8 string versions and b) it's going to be different than an existing 6-string guitar.



I would agree with your overall conclusion from precisely the opposite argument to (b): Carvin's not going to use an untested body style on a headless model, and they're not going to make the 7/8-string body different from the 6-string body. Ergo, it's a superstrat.


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## FromTheMausoleum

6 7 and 8..... YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## stevexc

celticelk said:


> I would agree with your overall conclusion from precisely the opposite argument to (b): Carvin's not going to use an untested body style on a headless model, and they're not going to make the 7/8-string body different from the 6-string body. Ergo, it's a superstrat.



Watch us both be wrong and they'll put out a Steinberger Synapse-inspired body  Or something equally out there.


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## celticelk

stevexc said:


> Watch us both be wrong and they'll put out a Steinberger Synapse-inspired body  Or something equally out there.



It's not like I've never been wrong before!


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## gunshow86de

stevexc said:


> Watch us both be wrong and they'll put out a Steinberger Synapse-inspired body  Or something equally out there.



Klein body it is then.


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## stevexc

I could honestly see Carvin doing that


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## celticelk

gunshow86de said:


> Klein body it is then.



A 7-string Klein? I would buy the shit out of that.


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## ChrisH

Sorry to spoil the surprise for you guys....


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## celticelk

^^^ Meesa feelin pretty okey-day about this! =)


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## wannabguitarist

I would love it if the 6-string had Carvin's standard 25in scale. Would be a nice difference from the HH model. Shorter scale and headless checks all the dream boxes for


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## celticelk

Chris, might we read this announcement - one model name with 6/7/8-string options - as an indication that Carvin may in the future simply say "we have these models, and you can get (some or all of) them in your choice of string number"? Preferably with an option for standard or baritone scale length?


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## gunshow86de

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Meesa feelin pretty okey-day about this! =)


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## Necris

If it turns out to be a Klein shaped headless I may die from excitement.


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## MoshJosh

this was posted way back in the other headless Carvin thread, and I have to assume it is a Vader body (why no one has brought it up in this thread I couldn't tell you). As others have pointed out. . . bolt on/set neck???


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## curlyvice

Really hoping for a bolt on


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## SnowfaLL

Just 5 mins of messing around with photoshop.. I think with that wood picture from earlier showing a cut up DC800, this headless will basically be a DC7X/DC800 modified for headless hardware.


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## HurrDurr

When I saw that *'6, 7, 8 string models'* announcement, I cried... I'm getting one of each if the powers that be will allow it.


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## gunshow86de

Hopefully these will sell well enough that at least one company will start making double-ball strings with gauges heavy enough for 7's and 8's. If you've not experienced the magic of double-ball strings, you're really missing out.


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## Hollowway

HurrDurr said:


> When I saw that *'6, 7, 8 string models'* announcement, I cried... I'm getting one of each if the powers that be will allow it.



Good luck! I think the powers that be is going to roll her eyes when you present your plan to her!


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## celticelk

gunshow86de said:


> Hopefully these will sell well enough that at least one company will start making double-ball strings with gauges heavy enough for 7's and 8's. If you've not experienced the magic of double-ball strings, you're really missing out.



Does the Hipshot headpiece even accept double-ball strings? Since, as you observe, there's a very restricted range of gauges available, it doesn't seem sensible to build that feature into the 7- or 8-string headpieces, which means the 6 probably doesn't have it either.


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## leonardo7

ChrisH said:


> Alls I gotsta say, there are BIG changes coming soon and it's not just a few new models.



All I can make out of this is that perhaps there is a new company being started? Perhaps titled Kiesel Guitars? A reason to start selling significantly higher priced and spec'd guitars without people saying "what happened to Carvin, they used to be so well priced". Either way exciting stuff for you guys Im sure!


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## gunshow86de

celticelk said:


> Does the Hipshot headpiece even accept double-ball strings? Since, as you observe, there's a very restricted range of gauges available, it doesn't seem sensible to build that feature into the 7- or 8-string headpieces, which means the 6 probably doesn't have it either.



7 String Guitar Headless System > Store > Hipshot Products

The Hipshot 7-string version accepts both single and double ball. I figure they're either going with the existing Hipshot hardware, or they've built up enough of a relationship with J-Custom to have them make 7 and 8 string versions of the hardware they are using on the Holdsworth models (which accepts both single and double ball).

Besides making it easier to change strings, double-balls stay in tune forever (since they can't "slip" on the tuning peg).


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## Hollowway

leonardo7 said:


> All I can make out of this is that perhaps there is a new company being started? Perhaps titled Kiesel Guitars? A reason to start selling significantly higher priced and spec'd guitars without people saying "what happened to Carvin, they used to be so well priced". Either way exciting stuff for you guys Im sure!



Yeah, that could be. The other thing is they could start promoting the Kiesel name as a line within the company, or even transition to that name entirely. The latter would be unlikely, but the name was created when people used to take two names and vram them together to form a new one. These days people just use their name. And I think as a family owned business they deserve to have their name on the guitars. But a separate line within the company seems more likely. Could be a separate corp, too, but that seems like a lot of extra work when they're really all the same guys doing it all.


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## ferret

Mike Jones posted this on carvin bbs:


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## cardinal

leonardo7 said:


> All I can make out of this is that perhaps there is a new company being started? Perhaps titled Kiesel Guitars? A reason to start selling significantly higher priced and spec'd guitars without people saying "what happened to Carvin, they used to be so well priced". Either way exciting stuff for you guys Im sure!



I was hoping he means that they're going back and fixing the upper horn on all of their superstrats so that they don't look so odd. Carvin: please do that. Seriously. The quality of your builds is really great.


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## -DTP-

cardinal said:


> I was hoping he means that they're going back and fixing the upper horn on all of their superstrats so that they don't look so odd. Carvin: please do that. Seriously. The quality of your builds is really great.



dude FOR REAL... I loveeeee carvin but the weird ass horns on their superstrats are the ONLY reason I haven't ordered a bundle of them

Definitely in for headless though


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## MatthewK




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## ovlott

well if its available in 6,7, and 8 string models it has to be based off of the DCx00 series. Thats the only other model that spans 6,7, and 8 strings. I think the look of that strat-steinberger is pretty spot on as to what we should expect. 

I just really hope they give the lower-bout by the output some reshaping for ergonomics. Otherwise it will look kinda wonky to me if its based relatively off that steinberger.


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## 7stg

ChrisH said:


> Alls I gotsta say, there are BIG changes coming soon and it's not just a few new models.



Guitars are going to be offered in multiple scale lengths so everyone will be happy, say 25.5, 27, 28.5, and 30 inches.


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## asher

They just added the Kiesel editions for the pricey fancy stuff. I have no idea why they would split that off more.

I'm gonna go with adjustments to abroad distro like was possibly suggested earlier.


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## Nlelith

And I hope "BIG changes" means worldwide shipping will be back.


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## Jake

Pretty stoked for this reveal, probably the only thing I'm excited for right now 

Carvin is right near the top of my "college graduation present to myself" list and this has me quite interested.


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## jwade

I hope it's a fully new shape.


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## fps

asher said:


> They just added the Kiesel editions for the pricey fancy stuff. I have no idea why they would split that off more.
> 
> I'm gonna go with adjustments to abroad distro like was possibly suggested earlier.



OOOOO seriously!?


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## MatthewK




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## Hollowway

DC!


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## MoshJosh

I'm digging the carve on the lower horn


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## cubix

So far I'm loving this but it can all go south... It all depends on them horns  Hopefully the lower horn is significantly shorter than the upper one so it DOESN'T look like a Steinberger but more like a Strandberg. Would prefer Single Cut in lines of the amazing SC90 (mmmm SC90 headless!!!..) but I guess that's not happening


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## porknchili

My heart has exploded...


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## Schaug

cubix said:


> So far I'm loving this but it can all go south... It all depends on them horns  Hopefully the lower horn is significantly shorter than the upper one so it DOESN'T look like a Steinberger but more like a Strandberg. Would prefer Single Cut in lines of the amazing SC90 (mmmm SC90 headless!!!..) but I guess that's not happening



This. Obligatory shorter lower horn!


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## InfestedRabite

Nlelith said:


> And I hope "BIG changes" means worldwide shipping will be back.



this

probably won't ever get one unless this is the case tbh


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## jwade

Is there any confirmation anywhere that the product name is actually 'Vader'? It seems kind of unlikely that Disney would give anybody permission to market a product with that as the name. Additionally, there's definitely room for more letters to be revealed, maybe something like Evader/Invader? Invader would fit with the color


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## Electric Wizard

^Well there was already Vader cabs, Vader the band, etc. I don't think they can claim ownership over only part of the name.

I was thinking the same thing earlier though, about room for another letter. Evader would be a sweet name for a headless, IMO.


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## porknchili

jwade said:


> Is there any confirmation anywhere that the product name is actually 'Vader'? It seems kind of unlikely that Disney would give anybody permission to market a product with that as the name. Additionally, there's definitely room for more letters to be revealed, maybe something like Evader/Invader? Invader would fit with the color



Carvin has been calling this the Vader in every post on their facebook post so I think it's safe to assume that it just the Vader.


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## Curt

Yeah, I was about to say, Vader cabs did it.. haha


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## TheUnvanquished

Hollowway said:


> DC!



As in double cut? Aw yeah. I'm thinking so too. This reveal is starting to make me really happy!!!


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## SandyRavage

This is getting my money. I have been waiting to pull the trigger on a carvin and a headless for like two years now and I am 100% out of excuses.


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## GenghisCoyne

At this point every new picture will only polarize people. Except me, ive been pissed since finding out theirs no 4 and 5 string option.


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## 7stg

The Dutch word for "father" is vader. Could be something to this? vader - Wiktionary

There are a few thing under vader Vader - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## loqtrall

Oh, come on! Bet the next part revealed is just the tip of the lower horn.


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## SnowfaLL

I know I suck at photoshop, but I figured I'd spend 20 minutes with an idea I had. The bottom cut-away to me looks kinda like the SCB7 cutaway, so I photoshopped the image on top of the SCB7, then added a DC7X top horn. Flipped the given top butt and made a basic cut-in for the Hipshot Headless bridge (and the only image I could find was a graphix 6 string version, I'm aware its missing a string) 

Anyways, Here is what I came up with:


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## Curt

although the top wont be beveled like that, I like the whole short lower horn look. I really hope it is that. mmmmm


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## SnowfaLL

yea.. Layers on photoshop are messy sometimes. Of course, If I spent another 30 mins I could of made it pretty decent but its just an idea for the overall shape. The top horn is quilted maple while the rest is green stained walnut haha.


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## Hollowway

There are most definitely more letters if we assume that's the reason the name was cropped so closely to the V. My guess is Evader because there are already pickups named Invader. But it could be either.


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## Dabo Fett

hopefully it comes together looking better than it currently does in my head. comes down to the horns i guess, but right now it just seems like a really small body. which would suck, because i was about to order a carvin when the first teaser picture came out, and it probably would have been atleast halfway done by now


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## thrsher

if jeff started a full on custom shop, i would def. place an order


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## Galius

Seeing a "Kiesel" logo alot on guitar headstocks/pics lately does really have me wondering what that's all about. I just really hope that doesn't mean anything that leads to the base affordability of Carvin going out the window. I can see maybe fancier looking and higher end stuff taking a premium name but if that's the case I would hope like hell the quality and playability are still on par. So possibly these could cost more to produce and fall into "Kiesel" territory? I guess we will find out. It's nice to see Carvin making these big strides lately to give everyone options like this, though I don't think a headless is for me.


----------



## ferret

Hollowway said:


> There are most definitely more letters if we assume that's the reason the name was cropped so closely to the V. My guess is Evader because there are already pickups named Invader. But it could be either.



On instagram, they only posted one image about it, directing people to watch Facebook for the reveal. The name Vader was centered in that photo.





Edit: Nevermind, they posted a second to Instragram today, but same deal:


----------



## thrsher

carvin knows where their bread and butter is.....toyota is to carvin as lexus is to kiesel.


----------



## Enselmis

I hope it isn't some kinda Kiesel exclusive, like you couldn't get one unless you did the full Kiesel upcharge. I'd be heartbroken.


----------



## leonardo7

Curt said:


> Yeah, I was about to say, Vader cabs did it.. haha



Yeah but they are no longer making cabs I think 



thrsher said:


> carvin knows where their bread and butter is.....toyota is to carvin as lexus is to kiesel.





Thats exactly what I said yesterday and exactly what I meant. Its been pretty obvious as of the past several months where they are going with the Kiesel branding. They need to separate the expensive stuff from the normal Carvin stuff and to avoid people saying stuff along the lines of "what happened to Carvin, have you seen their prices lately" they can just make the expensive stuff have a new name. They want us to refer to the new stuff as Kiesel, not Carvin. Its not an ego thing as much as a business move. This is business 101 stuff. But hey, at the end of the day we dont really know whats going on yet and ultimately I dont really care 

Ill probably buy a Kiesel someday to try out


----------



## 7stg

It looks like headless should be around $200 more than standard.

headless - $400
7 String Guitar Headless System > Store > Hipshot Products

standard 109+25+54+10=$198
7 String Fixed .125 Guitar Bridge > Store > Hipshot Products
Carvin.com : LN7B RIGHT-HANDED 7 STRING LOCKING NUT CLAMP - CHROME
Carvin.com : CL33C CARVIN LOCKING 3 X 3 GUITAR TUNERS - CHROME
Carvin.com : CLT1C CARVIN LOCKING TUNER, 1 TOP - CHROME


----------



## celticelk

^^^ I think what you meant to say is "at least."


----------



## kevdes93

Im really nervous now, i really hope this remains around hh2-ish pricewise. Id be devastated if this was part of some new expensive tier of carvin


----------



## JPhoenix19

SnowfaLL said:


> I know I suck at photoshop, but I figured I'd spend 20 minutes with an idea I had. The bottom cut-away to me looks kinda like the SCB7 cutaway, so I photoshopped the image on top of the SCB7, then added a DC7X top horn. Flipped the given top butt and made a basic cut-in for the Hipshot Headless bridge (and the only image I could find was a graphix 6 string version, I'm aware its missing a string)
> 
> Anyways, Here is what I came up with:





Looks like a battle axe...


----------



## gunshow86de

What's all this talk of lower horn?


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I hope I'm not beheaded for this (ok, pun intended), but is this a way of jumping in on the Strandberg market?


----------



## SnowfaLL

Adam Of Angels said:


> I hope I'm not beheaded for this (ok, pun intended), but is this a way of jumping in on the Strandberg market?



Most likely. Why not? Strandberg is selling a ton of production guitars at $2600+ for no options. Carvin could produce one of these at much less and be able to use any wood/color/etc you want.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Adam Of Angels said:


> I hope I'm not beheaded for this (ok, pun intended), but is this a way of jumping in on the Strandberg market?



Capitalism in action.


----------



## Forkface

i might consider it if they offer endurnecks, but probably not xD


----------



## jwade

I've thought for awhile now that the Vanquish body would be awesome if it were repurposed as a guitar. It would be cool if this new guitar was similar, especially a nice longer upper horn.


----------



## thrsher

Adam Of Angels said:


> I hope I'm not beheaded for this (ok, pun intended), but is this a way of jumping in on the Strandberg market?




Competition is good. Stranberg is priced too high and everything Washburn as been putting out just seems sub par for full custom pricing. It will only force washburn to step up the game. If they continue with the sub par quality on the new announced semi customs, carvin will steal the show. Only multiscale is what will keep stranberg ( Washburn) in demand


----------



## Suho

I'm excited to see what the final result is for this 10-day countdown, but this idea of Kiesel branding makes me a little worried. I love Carvin, but part of the love is because of the affordability. A big part, actually. 

Obviously if that wasn't a factor then I would consider a number of more expensive guitar makers that are way out of my range right now. This is a great time to get in on the headless ERG market given the relative lack of competitors, but those competitors were also innovators - and those innovations are what lead to their success and their ability to charge a lot of money for their guitars. 

Carvin's advantages here are: quicker build times, consistent high-quality, variety of customizable options, and great affordability. 
Their downsides are: possible inability to utilize the above innovations (such as licensed neck profiles and multi-scale necks) and generally lower resale value. 
And now the Washburn and OS models of Strandbergs are supposedly being made in timeframes much closer to Carvin's build-times. If this Kiesel thing means they are losing the affordability-edge I think it will seriously hurt their viability. I have no doubt whatever the product specs are, they will be manufactured with the utmost quality and detail- the real question will be how much does it cost?


----------



## 7stg

Suho said:


> part of the love is because of the affordability. A big part, actually.



Exactly. If it's priced around the other builders I would just get an even longer scale 29.5-33 or 30-33.5 inch version of this. Skervesen - SkerveTEN








Suho said:


> If this Kiesel thing means they are losing the affordability-edge I think it will seriously hurt their viability.


True there are other nice 27 inch scale 7 strings and the m80m for 8 strings.


----------



## fps

Suho said:


> I'm excited to see what the final result is for this 10-day countdown, but this idea of Kiesel branding makes me a little worried. I love Carvin, but part of the love is because of the affordability. A big part, actually.
> 
> Obviously if that wasn't a factor then I would consider a number of more expensive guitar makers that are way out of my range right now. This is a great time to get in on the headless ERG market given the relative lack of competitors, but those competitors were also innovators - and those innovations are what lead to their success and their ability to charge a lot of money for their guitars.
> 
> Carvin's advantages here are: quicker build times, consistent high-quality, variety of customizable options, and great affordability.
> Their downsides are: possible inability to utilize the above innovations (such as licensed neck profiles and multi-scale necks) and generally lower resale value.
> And now the Washburn and OS models of Strandbergs are supposedly being made in timeframes much closer to Carvin's build-times. If this Kiesel thing means they are losing the affordability-edge I think it will seriously hurt their viability. I have no doubt whatever the product specs are, they will be manufactured with the utmost quality and detail- the real question will be how much does it cost?



Agree with all


----------



## Dabo Fett

SnowfaLL said:


> I know I suck at photoshop, but I figured I'd spend 20 minutes with an idea I had. The bottom cut-away to me looks kinda like the SCB7 cutaway, so I photoshopped the image on top of the SCB7, then added a DC7X top horn. Flipped the given top butt and made a basic cut-in for the Hipshot Headless bridge (and the only image I could find was a graphix 6 string version, I'm aware its missing a string)
> 
> Anyways, Here is what I came up with:



didn't see this yesterday, if this is it, i'm ordering immediately!


----------



## HaloHat

I would prefer the double cut with pointy ish bouts.

I will say looking at the current photos that bottom bouts bevel sure looks a lot like the SCB's. Already have SCB6 and SCB7. I also think the SCB's are Jeff current personal favorite model. It would be surprising to me if they went with a single cut as the first entry in their 6/7/8 headless line. Pretty sure we will see them going double cuts first but I suppose we don't have long to know for sure. Just happy that Carvin-Kiesel is going there at all. 

Even though there are a couple other models I would like to buy over the new 7 string headless, I will be buying one for sure.

Super excited to see what all the other new products are...


----------



## Tom 1.0

jwade said:


> I've thought for awhile now that the Vanquish body would be awesome if it were repurposed as a guitar. It would be cool if this new guitar was similar, especially a nice longer upper horn.




I'd totally buy that.


----------



## loqtrall

And a new one:






Of course they had to be trolls about it.


----------



## loqtrall

Next picture: Bridge Pickup, tip of horn, non-headstock.

Oh, Carvin, just let it out already.


----------



## Enselmis

loqtrall said:


> Next picture: Bridge Pickup, tip of horn, non-headstock.
> 
> Oh, Carvin, just let it out already.



Next picture is guaranteed to be bottom left side. I'm calling it right now.


----------



## Hollowway

I want to see go he horns now. It's guaranteed a headless - there's just no way it's something else. The big question is whether it's a DC modified or a new design.


----------



## Jlang

I think the next reveal will be of the "headstock" its clearly already headless with the name on the body. They will either want to keep the hardware a secret till the end , or if its a new design, I figure the design aspect is a bigger surprise.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I actually guess that it'll be the upper horn. There won't be a headstock (or lack of) or anywhere near the bridge as that would just give it all away. The upper or lower horn are my two guesses, as far as the next parts of the guitar to be revealed are concerned. They may have more text that they're waiting on too.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

It looks like a 7 string Holdsworth/DC700 hybrid. Guess time'll tell.


----------



## jwade

If they really wanted to troll people, they'd do the square beside '6, 7, 8 string models', followed by the upper horn, then the lower horn. I'd save the actual butt-end and headstock-less squares for the last 2.

I'm assuming the square beside the 6/7/8 will say the scale length(s).


----------



## HaloHat

I wonder how far out build times will get with all the new gear for 2015. I know Carvin hired recently but still. Probably will still be better than most.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

jwade said:


> If they really wanted to troll people, they'd do the square beside '6, 7, 8 string models'......I'm assuming the square beside the 6/7/8 will say the scale length(s).



Or "Available in.."


----------



## Electric Wizard

Chokey Chicken said:


> They may have more text that they're waiting on too.


Hoping the base price(s?) will be on there.


----------



## celticelk

I'd be very surprised if there's more text. There's no room for anything meaningful, unless that lower horn is a good deal shorter than I suspect.


----------



## cubix

Seeing how the lower horn starts, I'd say it's going to be short - NICE! They both start very different than DC700 so I don't think it's a reworked DC.


----------



## mr_ormus777

So pumped for this, finally my DC800s will get another brother may even get a 7 string version later on...


----------



## littledoc

To me, doing a headless without a multiscale is just going halfway on an ergonomic guitar. To each their own, but as soon as I saw the standard scale I was meh all the way.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

littledoc said:


> To me, doing a headless without a multiscale is just going halfway on an ergonomic guitar. To each their own, but as soon as I saw the standard scale I was meh all the way.



I know how you feel. Baby steps, man..


----------



## in-pursuit

how pissed off would everybody be if it turned out that the rear portion of the body was like a steinberger and the front portion of the body was like an offset SG, similar to an ESP Viper or something like that, and headless.

that would ruin my day all week long hahaha!


----------



## Electric Wizard

^So more or less a Carvin knockoff of a DeLap? Not really that pissed. It would basically be a second Holdsworth sig.


----------



## in-pursuit

nah more like this but steinberger buttocks instead of flying V


----------



## celticelk

in-pursuit said:


> how pissed off would everybody be if it turned out that the rear portion of the body was like a steinberger and the front portion of the body was like an offset SG, similar to an ESP Viper or something like that, and headless.
> 
> that would ruin my day all week long hahaha!



I'd prefer that over a superstrat, myself. Not gonna happen, though.


----------



## in-pursuit

I had my fingers crossed for a klein style body personally


----------



## celticelk

^^^ Yeah, I'd be interested in any body shape that wasn't a superstrat or something pointier. It'll be a superstrat, though. *shrug*


----------



## in-pursuit

yeah there's really no chance it won't be with what's been unveiled already. but still, they're getting there slowly and with any luck enough of these will be out the door between now and next year that they'll start looking at expanding. really it's a great thing that it'll be available in 6-8 string configurations. assuming that it is indeed extended scale length, there are really not that many options for expanding the options on this model other than different body styles.


----------



## HighGain510

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Yeah, I'd be interested in any body shape that wasn't a superstrat or something pointier. It'll be a superstrat, though. *shrug*



Because it will sell better with a more standard shape. Why would they go with a "unique" shape like a Klein when those didn't sell overly well to begin with (yes I understand part of it was due to price and availability, but I can guarantee that shape turned off more than it turned on... )? You realize they're in business to sell MORE guitars rather than fewer, right?  While it's always cool to see unique shapes, if they go TOO unique and people hate it, that's a lot of money wasted on tooling up for something that won't sell well. 

If they do a superstrat or a Strandberg-esque style body, they'll sell a ton of these assuming the "Kiesel" label doesn't automatically make them $3K.  Color me excited and likely down for one, just curious what the shape ends up being in the end and what the price tag looks like. As others have said the fact that they're attaching a Kiesel logo might mean that these cost more, or it might just be Jeff's way of saying "I made this and I want MY name on it.", so I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it until they post the price.  Hopefully that is part of the unveil as well.


----------



## in-pursuit

you realize he was talking about his personal preferences in terms of what appeals to him as a buyer, and that the last part of his post quite clearly acknowledges the difference between his interests and those that would best serve a company trying to offer a product that will appeal to as large as possible of a cross section of the guitar playing demographic?


----------



## in-pursuit

it's interesting that you go down one path in your statement saying "lol derpa you canna has ze popular guitar wiss nossing but zer superstrat lolz" directly referring to the klein body style as being something not overly popular and therefore not marketable, and then your next statement puts superstrat in the same sentence as strandberg referring to popular body styles when the concept of a superstrat has been around for more than a quarter of century with huge commercial success across multiple notable brands and strandberg has been around for..... 

how long? with.... 

how many guitars has he built again? 

you can include washbergs and stricly7bergs too in that comparison.

you can multiply by 1000 too if you like. shouldn't make much difference.

just trying to get to grips with your logic. and yes, I am genuinely severely butthurt that they aren't making a klein style guitar, I am more than happy to admit that


----------



## celticelk

HighGain510 said:


> Because it will sell better with a more standard shape. Why would they go with a "unique" shape like a Klein when those didn't sell overly well to begin with (yes I understand part of it was due to price and availability, but I can guarantee that shape turned off more than it turned on... )? You realize they're in business to sell MORE guitars rather than fewer, right?  While it's always cool to see unique shapes, if they go TOO unique and people hate it, that's a lot of money wasted on tooling up for something that won't sell well.
> 
> If they do a superstrat or a Strandberg-esque style body, they'll sell a ton of these assuming the "Kiesel" label doesn't automatically make them $3K.  Color me excited and likely down for one, just curious what the shape ends up being in the end and what the price tag looks like. As others have said the fact that they're attaching a Kiesel logo might mean that these cost more, or it might just be Jeff's way of saying "I made this and I want MY name on it.", so I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it until they post the price.  Hopefully that is part of the unveil as well.



Preaching to the choir, bro. =) I've argued from the beginning that if Carvin was going to release a headless, it would be a superstrat, on precisely the grounds that doing anything else is not a smart business move. The fact that I won't buy a superstrat, headless or otherwise, is sort of tangential to that argument. I pretty much expect major manufacturers *not* to cater to my preferences at this point.


----------



## HighGain510

in-pursuit said:


> you realize he was talking about his personal preferences in terms of what appeals to him as a buyer, and that the last part of his post quite clearly acknowledges the difference between his interests and those that would best serve a company trying to offer a product that will appeal to as large as possible of a cross section of the guitar playing demographic?





in-pursuit said:


> it's interesting that you go down one path in your statement saying "lol derpa you canna has ze popular guitar wiss nossing but zer superstrat lolz" directly referring to the klein body style as being something not overly popular and therefore not marketable, and then your next statement puts superstrat in the same sentence as strandberg referring to popular body styles when the concept of a superstrat has been around for more than a quarter of century with huge commercial success across multiple notable brands and strandberg has been around for.....
> 
> how long? with....
> 
> how many guitars has he built again?
> 
> you can include washbergs and stricly7bergs too in that comparison.
> 
> you can multiply by 1000 too if you like. shouldn't make much difference.
> 
> just trying to get to grips with your logic. and yes, I am genuinely severely butthurt that they aren't making a klein style guitar, I am more than happy to admit that



Yes, I was quite clear in my post that I was addressing his personal complaint about not wanting anything superstrat-shaped. Why would you try to infer anything else is beyond me. I simply confirmed the reason why, despite his personal choice to say he wouldn't buy anything strat-shaped from them, they would likely not venture down that route.

Attempting to transform my post into "lol derpa you canna has ze popular guitar wiss nossing but zer superstrat lolz" says way more about you than it does about me, not sure why I even bothered to respond to your post honestly.  Why is the strandberg body successful, or more successful than Klein? Because it is fairly SUPERSTRAT-SHAPED, thus supporting my point. How did you not grasp that exactly? 

The only difference in a Strandberg from a superstrat shape (since the horns are still strat-like) really is the cutout for the leg to play comfortably in classical position, which is a wonderful addition and part of the reason some people are drawn to it. It's still fairly strat shaped for both horns, the bass side contour is similar to the contour of a strat with the forearm shape and the bottom is cut out for the headless bridge and an additional cutout for propping the body on your leg in the classical position.







vs







I don't hate the Klein shape, so don't take it as me hating on his design, but I can pretty much guarantee you if you sat down a group of guitarists and asked them which one they would choose if they had to choose from only those two shapes, far fewer would be choosing the Klein.


----------



## HighGain510

celticelk said:


> Preaching to the choir, bro. =) I've argued from the beginning that if Carvin was going to release a headless, it would be a superstrat, on precisely the grounds that doing anything else is not a smart business move. The fact that I won't buy a superstrat, headless or otherwise, is sort of tangential to that argument. I pretty much expect major manufacturers *not* to cater to my preferences at this point.



Haha agreed. It's unfortunate as the HH shape is a little bit different than most on the market for headless stuff and honestly I'd LOVE to see a 7-string variant of the original HH scaled up for a 7, but I know it won't happen since I've been begging Carvin for it since the HH debuted and the answer is always "Holdworth doesn't play them, so nope!" despite the fact that they would likely sell well since the HH model has sold fairly well. We all know the superstrat is going to sell well so I don't blame them for going that route, but do agree with you it would be nice to see some other options, just seems if it's not popular enough to sell to the masses, most companies won't bother.


----------



## illimmigrant

I don't quite get the whole Kiesel branding thing. It gives you further custom options like the stained fretboard, custom bursts, figured woods on the back (similar to the older "elite" models). None of those features really appeal to me, other than maybe requesting a finish not on the online builder. As far as I know, a Kiesel guitar will have just about the same quality as a Carvin, and it's made from the same woods supplied, so I don't they would actually sound any better or that much different than your standard Carvin, but maybe someone can chime in on this. I am excited to see what they're coming out with, headless or otherwise. I feel they've really stepped up to the competition these past couple of years. I would like to see more inlay options though. I feel their selection is quite outdated now


----------



## Opion

This is shaping up to be an awesome year for ERG players and headless guitar enthusiasts alike. I've never played a headless before but after researching the benefits of tuning stability as well as the advantages of the lightweight construction, I'm sold. I'm way too attached to my Ibby's to ever sell them to fund one of these though :[ Maybe one day!


----------



## ferret

I had a thought/question. From the photos and fret matchups in photoshop, this appears to be a 27". But I'm not really into 27" (sue me!), especially for 6-string though.

It also appears to be set neck or bolt on (rather than neck through) from the earlier teaser.

In theory, that means they just need two different necks right? Would they need to move bridge/pickups for 25.5" versus 27"? Or is it just a matter of gluing in your preferred neck?


----------



## xwmucradiox

25.5 vs. 27 requires moving the bridge. The math doesn't work for simply adding an extra fret or two.


----------



## celticelk

ferret said:


> I had a thought/question. From the photos and fret matchups in photoshop, this appears to be a 27". But I'm not really into 27" (sue me!), especially for 6-string though.
> 
> It also appears to be set neck or bolt on (rather than neck through) from the earlier teaser.
> 
> In theory, that means they just need two different necks right? Would they need to move bridge/pickups for 25.5" versus 27"? Or is it just a matter of gluing in your preferred neck?



To my way of thinking, that flexibility would be a major reason for Carvin to go with a non-neck-through design on this model, and probably a good market move given the various demands for both "standard" and "baritone" scale 6s and 7s. My hope is that this is part of the Kiesel branding: In theory, Kiesel could be a new "imprint" of Carvin (to steal a term from the publishing world) devoted to more "modern" (read: tech metal) guitars, where string number and scale length will be a selectable option just like woods and hardware color. On the other hand, I've been wrong before.


----------



## jerm

spacing between frets is also different.


----------



## fortisursus

If this is chambered I think I might just go crazy. But I'll still be happy if it is what we all think it is.


----------



## HighGain510

fortisursus said:


> If this is chambered I think I might just go crazy. But I'll still be happy if it is what we all think it is.



That's actually another spec I was curious about... if it's solid or if it's chambered (or if there's an option for either choice). The chambered headless guitars I've played and owned sounded fantastic, so I'd love to see them go chambered on this thing too but I wonder if that's on the table for these or not!


----------



## BlackWinds10

Suho said:


> I'm excited to see what the final result is for this 10-day countdown, but this idea of Kiesel branding makes me a little worried. I love Carvin, but part of the love is because of the affordability. A big part, actually.
> 
> Obviously if that wasn't a factor then I would consider a number of more expensive guitar makers that are way out of my range right now. This is a great time to get in on the headless ERG market given the relative lack of competitors, but those competitors were also innovators - and those innovations are what lead to their success and their ability to charge a lot of money for their guitars.
> 
> Carvin's advantages here are: quicker build times, consistent high-quality, variety of customizable options, and great affordability.
> Their downsides are: possible inability to utilize the above innovations (such as licensed neck profiles and multi-scale necks) and generally lower resale value.
> And now the Washburn and OS models of Strandbergs are supposedly being made in timeframes much closer to Carvin's build-times. If this Kiesel thing means they are losing the affordability-edge I think it will seriously hurt their viability. I have no doubt whatever the product specs are, they will be manufactured with the utmost quality and detail- the real question will be how much does it cost?



I've talked to Chris about the whole Kiesel branding thing, and I feel I need to let everyone know that the Kiesel thing isn't going to be destroying their affordability. Now (Chris correct me if I"m wrong on this) Kiesel guitars are just guitars that have cool or special options that aren't considered standard options, so anything with an option 50 has the ability to become a Kiesel. There's no price hike for calling it a kiesel other than the fact you ordered an option 50. I ordered a DC600 days after receiving my GP7X and ordered the first Carvin with a Moss Green Caliburst and I found out (though too late in the build) that it could be called a Kiesel guitar just for the fact it has the Caliburst option 50. My guitar wasn't commanding some ridiculous price or anything, in fact it wasn't even nudging the 2k mark and it could be called a Kiesel.

The difference between Kiesel guitars and Kiesel editions now is, Kiesel editions are basically I suppose the private stock of Carvin. There's a 2k upcharge from base price of a model, the bodys are 5 piece and necks are 5 piece. It starts with a flame top and back, and flame neck with some sort of fillets if I recall. Jeff Kiesel himself builds these and basically anything you want, can be done.

So by doing this, I feel they're not losing their affordability, they're just rebranding their image to show they can make a solid guitar at a solid price, but also make a guitar that can be considered a work of art. I also think this rebranding of their image is going to keep the resale value high, I've already seen it begun to do so.


----------



## ferret

So is the sample Vader a Kiesel because it's a Vader or because it's KRG finished? I wasn't sure whether or not KRG is considered "non-standard", though of course it's not on the builder.


----------



## Enselmis

ferret said:


> So is the sample Vader a Kiesel because it's a Vader or because it's KRG finished? I wasn't sure whether or not KRG is considered "non-standard", though of course it's not on the builder.



Pretty sure it is on the builder now.

Yeah, I just checked. It's an option in the online builder.


----------



## BlackWinds10

ferret said:


> So is the sample Vader a Kiesel because it's a Vader or because it's KRG finished? I wasn't sure whether or not KRG is considered "non-standard", though of course it's not on the builder.



AFAIK KRG isnt an OP50? But until this thing is fully revealed I'm not in a position to know why it's a Kiesel


----------



## ferret

BlackWinds10 said:


> AFAIK KRG isnt an OP50? But until this thing is fully revealed I'm not in a position to know why it's a Kiesel



Yeah I didn't mean to indicate KRG is an opt 50. There are many options that are not opt 50, but are also not on the builder.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

The best thing about a chambered headless is that it weighs less than 4 or 5 apples


----------



## stevexc

Adam Of Angels said:


> The best thing about a chambered headless is that it weighs less than 4 or 5 apples



Granny Smith or Macintosh?


----------



## SpaceDock

I would be all over a Carvin strandberg, the holdsworth is cool, but not my style.


----------



## stevexc

It has a bottom horn!


----------



## Schaug

and it's short, WOOOHOOO!


----------



## porknchili

Well, I wasn't expecting that at all...

Seriously, I wasn't expecting that type of lower horn whatsoever.


----------



## MoshJosh

AWWWWWWW yeah!


----------



## Hollowway

Whoo hoo! I didn't think there's a prayer that Jeff would be able to read my mind, but I was clearly wrong!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

DC7X shape with beveled horns? 
Nice.


----------



## Veritech Zero

RIP
My Wallet
1990-2015
"I don't need it, I don't need it, I NEEEEEED IT!"


----------



## Adam Of Angels

stevexc said:


> Granny Smith or Macintosh?




Washington Jazz Apples. Whole Foods sells them in West Palm, so that has to be the legit name.


----------



## jerm

big question is how the lower left of the image turns out.


----------



## ChrisH




----------



## MoshJosh

Veritech Zero said:


> "I don't need it, I don't need it, I NEEEEEED IT!"


----------



## 7stg

Lowell Kiesel founded Carvin in Southern California in 1946 as the L. C. Kiesel Company to manufacture guitar pickups. By 1947, the company was manufacturing steel guitars in Gothenburg, Nebraska. Around 1948, it returned to Southern California, and moved to Baldwin Park, California in 1949, where the company name changed to Carvin, after Kiesel's two eldest sons, Carson and Gavin. 

There was a business reason for the name change. Jeff posted about it on Facebook a little bit ago.


----------



## SeditiousDissent

^ That's actually pretty interesting. I always assumed it had been a family name somewhere down the line.


----------



## atticus1088

Someone posted this mock-up on the Carvin facebook.
Thought it was worth sharing.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

xwmucradiox said:


> 25.5 vs. 27 requires moving the bridge. The math doesn't work for simply adding an extra fret or two.



Yes and no. 

It's possible to add length to a guitar's scale by adding frets. Look at the Warmoth conversion necks; they add two frets of length on the lower end of the board, making it a 28.625" scale with 24 frets instead of 22. Same thing with some Ibanez conversion necks I've seen; they're 27" scale by adding one "lower" fret in length, making them 25 fret necks with the longer scale. 

Moving the bridge is more of a comfort aspect IMO. Ibanez isn't going to make a 25 fret, 27" scale guitar, but rather shift the bridge and frets back slightly so the 24th fret of the extended scale neck rests where the 25th _would_ have been with a conversion neck, but the bridge is in a more comfortable position.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

xwmucradiox said:


> 25.5 vs. 27 requires moving the bridge. The math doesn't work for simply adding an extra fret or two.



Not exactly. To create a different scale length, one just has to change the length of strings. This either means moving the nut further from the bridge, the bridge further from the nut, or a combination of both. (with frets spaced appropriately.)

So long as the distance from the saddle to the nut is 25.5, then the frets would need to be slotted accordingly. Same with a 27 inch scale. You could realistically make interchangeable scales by swapping out necks, so long as that's what the manufacturer had in mind. Warmoth, as already mentioned, sells conversion necks. You're not required to move the bridge and you can slap one of their 28" scale necks on a strat and have a baritone strat. Not sure if this is semantics, as I'm not 100% positive on the context of what you were saying, but I think it'd be cool for some brand to create a bolt on necked guitar that comes with 2 or 3 necks of varying scale length that you can swap out if you so choose, but that's neither here 'nor there.

I feel silly getting excited for a guitar I'm not going to own, at least for a while. I think bodens are pretty fugly, and I think a pointy/beveled horn would help greatly with the looks. It really does seem that if I ever do get a headless, it's going to be a Carvin.


----------



## cubix

The knee cut seems pretty shallow... Hope this doesn't make the body feel too wide and short


----------



## straightshreddd

atticus1088 said:


> Someone posted this mock-up on the Carvin facebook.
> Thought it was worth sharing.



Although I'm sure their final design looks sick, I really dig this mockup. I like when the horns face slightly outward on headless guitars such as on strandbergs rather than having "normal" horns. The aesthetic just flows better, visually, to me. Who knows, though. That upper horn will decide whether or not I want one badly, or kinda want one. The bevel looks pretty cool though.


----------



## Necris

I hope it doesn't look like that mockup. Otherwise I'll just call it the Carvin Blob.


----------



## HaloHat

I'm starting to think new model means new model. No DCx, SCBx, TLx etc.

Mostly a SG Headless... we'll see soon. Looking forward to all the new Carvin gear in 2015. And I had all my credit cards paid off, damn...


----------



## Schaug

And hopefully no Hipshot headless bridge because it's ugly as hell. 
T4M singe saddle bridges look much more elegant. 






But now I'm nitpicking.


----------



## Negav

Schaug said:


> And hopefully no Hipshot headless bridge because it's ugly as hell.
> T4M singe saddle bridges look much more elegant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But now I'm nitpicking.



With all due respect, please... explain to me how it that ugly?  

Edit: We're all here wondering how the guitar will look. I'm wondering how we can customize it haha.


----------



## Forkface

Something about that last reveal looks... off.

it seems too
fat?
Idunno, maybe im just goin insane.


----------



## Schaug

Negav said:


> With all due respect, please... explain to me how it that ugly?



This is the Hipshot headless bridge I was talking about. The above one is plain heavenly.


----------



## stevexc

Forkface said:


> Something about that last reveal looks... off.
> 
> it seems too
> fat?
> Idunno, maybe im just goin insane.



In fairness, we don't often look at guitars with squares blocked off... it messes with perspective to be sure.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

I'm curious to see what will be in that blank space between the lower horn and the "6,7,8" text. I'm hoping for something about it being chambered....but I dream...


----------



## BigViolin

It's gonna be hipshot as it's straight scale, no need to use individual saddles on a baseplate to achieve the fan.

There's certainly no accounting for taste as I love the hipshot stuff. 

Either way they might as well take my money now.


----------



## ovlott

I hope they have a zero-fret for this


----------



## HaloHat

Chambered would be nice on the current solid bodies. Jeff has said he will do chambered bodies now as an option. Cost posted at the Carvin bbs was $500.00

Too much for my budget but if enough people ask maybe the price can come down or the feature can be a option on the builder at a cost less than $500

I am sure it would be a popular option if the price was not such a large % of the total guitar cost.


----------



## gunshow86de

stevexc said:


> It has a bottom horn!






Schaug said:


> and it's short, WOOOHOOO!



WOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Danukenator

INB4 a huge Dean V-style headstock. The ultimate troll.


----------



## SpaceDock

I have a feeling this will look like this but with some carves on the horns.


----------



## xwmucradiox

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> It's possible to add length to a guitar's scale by adding frets. Look at the Warmoth conversion necks; they add two frets of length on the lower end of the board, making it a 28.625" scale with 24 frets instead of 22. Same thing with some Ibanez conversion necks I've seen; they're 27" scale by adding one "lower" fret in length, making them 25 fret necks with the longer scale.
> 
> Moving the bridge is more of a comfort aspect IMO. Ibanez isn't going to make a 25 fret, 27" scale guitar, but rather shift the bridge and frets back slightly so the 24th fret of the extended scale neck rests where the 25th _would_ have been with a conversion neck, but the bridge is in a more comfortable position.



I was saying that the 27" scale doesn't work with the add a few frets concept like 28.5" scale does.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

I like how everyone is expecting Carvin to make a Strandberg. If you want an endureneck, strandberg style bridge, multi-scale and the leg carve....then please fork out the dough for one. As for these, start expecting a more affordable production.


----------



## gigawhat

xwmucradiox said:


> I was saying that the 27" scale doesn't work with the add a few frets concept like 28.5" scale does.



Why not? As TWAT said in the post you just quoted by him, multiple people on here have 27" conversion necks on their Ibanez and they have no issues, so Im curious as to the facts that backup your statement that it doesnt work?


----------



## HurrDurr

SpaceDock said:


> I have a feeling this will look like this but with some carves on the horns.



I'd love this! With a slightly larger, maybe further out upper horn though.


----------



## ECGuitars

xwmucradiox said:


> I was saying that the 27" scale doesn't work with the add a few frets concept like 28.5" scale does.



Yes it does, if you add one fret on the nut end of the guitar on a 25.5 scale guitar, making it a 25 fret 27" scale neck. That's how conversion necks work, 28.625 is just adding two frets behind the nut


----------



## fortisursus

The real question will be whether this will be known as the Vader or Carberg.


----------



## Hollowway

Schaug said:


> And hopefully no Hipshot headless bridge because it's ugly as hell.
> T4M singe saddle bridges look much more elegant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But now I'm nitpicking.



Good lord, that's hot. Can I see a full picture of it? I tried a reverse image search and came up with nothing.


----------



## Hollowway

7stg said:


> Lowell Kiesel founded Carvin in Southern California in 1946 as the L. C. Kiesel Company to manufacture guitar pickups. By 1947, the company was manufacturing steel guitars in Gothenburg, Nebraska. Around 1948, it returned to Southern California, and moved to Baldwin Park, California in 1949, where the company name changed to Carvin, after Kiesel's two eldest sons, Carson and Gavin.
> 
> There was a business reason for the name change. Jeff posted about it on Facebook a little bit ago.



So what was the reason? Do Carson and Gavin want nothing to do with it now, or does Jeff want to put the family name back on?


----------



## jwade

Hollowway said:


> Good lord, that's hot. Can I see a full picture of it? I tried a reverse image search and came up with nothing.



Here you go dude:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/guitars-sale-trade-wanted/284916-ft-vandermeij-bb001-7str-cs.html


----------



## ferret

Hollowway said:


> So what was the reason? Do Carson and Gavin want nothing to do with it now, or does Jeff want to put the family name back on?



Carvin has stayed multiple times that the Carvin name isn't going away and the company is not renaming. It's just not entirely clear what they're using the "Kiesel" brand for yet.


----------



## JLesher6505

Really loving what I'm seeing so far!


----------



## Discoqueen

Can anyone shed some light on who this Keisel fellow really is?


----------



## TauSigmaNova

Discoqueen said:


> Can anyone shed some light on who this Keisel fellow really is?



Jeff Kiesel- current owner of the company, grandson of the original founder I believe.


----------



## Hollowway

You know the DCx00 doesn't have the world's largest lower horn as it is. Has anyone superimposed the DC700 over the top of the Vader to see if the horn is actually smaller?


----------



## Electric Wizard

^Looks like it is.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Behold, my shitty MS Paint rendition of what the final product might be shaped like:


----------



## crg123

^ Thats the shape I've had in my head too. Hopefully thats close to it.


----------



## Hollowway

@Electric Wizard and Grand Moff Tim - rep for you both for those! 

So that looks pretty cool then. Though, I would like a long-ass upper horn, not unlike the current DC one. If it's a stubby little vestigial SG horn I'm going to ....ing flip.

I would love for the treble side of the lower bout to have a leg rest a la strandberg, but I'm feeling like it's not likely going to happen. 

What is really interesting from the superimpositions you guys did his how SHORT the lower bout is. I would have thought they'd just carve in the end up tot he tuners, but it looks like they completely reworked it. Which, I think, says a lot about the direction Carvin is going: They aren't afraid to completely rework the CNC programs for new designs. That means that a lot of the stuff we've always figured wouldn't happen, due to a need for a completely new CNC program, might be back on the table. Specifically multiscale. Can you imagine? I can't decide what I'd rather have more - the ability to teleport or a Carvin multiscale.


----------



## BigViolin

I had to rep Hollowway for "stubby little vestigial sg horn".

As posted earlier it's looking a little Delap(ish) after the lower horn reveal. At this point I'm more concerned about scale length than shape.


----------



## Enselmis

Mike Jones been heavily implying on the Carvin board that it may actually be a neckthrough.

5th post from the top.

Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - New Carvin Vader???


----------



## littledoc

JaxoBuzzo said:


> I like how everyone is expecting Carvin to make a Strandberg. If you want an endureneck, strandberg style bridge, multi-scale and the leg carve....then please fork out the dough for one. As for these, start expecting a more affordable production.



Well, Strandberg is pretty much the king of the hill in the ergnomic guitar market. There are a few competitors, but if Carvin's gonna throw their hat into the ring it's only natural that people would want them to go after the best.


----------



## HaloHat

Hollowway said:


> So what was the reason? Do Carson and Gavin want nothing to do with it now, or does Jeff want to put the family name back on?



As you can see Mark and Jeff's duties have changed a bit but this one page tells a lot about the Kiesel/Carvin history.

Carvin.com - Lowell C. Kiesel, Founder of Carvin


Per Mike Jones of Carvin - On page 6 of 7
Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - "Kiesel Custom Guitars"

"There is no identity crisis here. 
A Kiesel Custom Guitars guitar doesn't necessarily equate to a guitar with a $3k+ price tag. 

For the time being, just about any Carvin guitar with a cool Option 50 on it can get the Kiesel logo put on the headstock like it's big brothers the Kiesel Editions. 

This includes special tops, special finishes (trans white, trans black, Kiesel racing orange, etc.), Kiesel treated fingerboards, flamed or quilted backs, you name it! 

We are NOT starting to brand the Carvin guitars as an entry level guitar. 

There will be no Epiph/Gibby deal here. 

This custom shop still only puts out quality one off instruments that are special ordered and sold direct to the customer. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Also... Keep an eye out for some special announcements around NAMM time!"


----------



## HighGain510

As long as the bass horn isn't stubby (i.e. both horns are the same size as the Delap guitar Holdsworth is playing in those pics) this thing looks good so far! If both horns are the same size, I'm out.


----------



## DeathCubeK

oooo lawd i hope it's this


----------



## kevdes93

bass horn needs to be longer but generally thats about what im expecting


----------



## HighGain510

DeathCubeK said:


> oooo lawd i hope it's this





kevdes93 said:


> bass horn needs to be longer but generally thats about what im expecting



Yep! Since it looks like the bass cutaway extends further into the body/neck joint I'm hoping it will end up being a bit longer than your depiction, but about that shape should be awesome if that's how they go with it.


----------



## Mangekyo

I've been following this post for a while and decided to say something.


I really hope it isn't an SG like shape, or a slight strat shape. This could be a really awesome guitar and if the design comes out "just okay" then I'm not really excited to spend money. "playing it safe" is going to cost them money if it looks bland. Hopefully the upper horn is big or they do something because I don't like the lower cutaway at all.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Mangekyo said:


> "playing it safe" is going to cost them money if it looks bland. l.


You underestimate SSO's want of an ERG headless.


----------



## celticelk

Mangekyo said:


> I've been following this post for a while and decided to say something.
> 
> 
> I really hope it isn't an SG like shape, or a slight strat shape. This could be a really awesome guitar and if the design comes out "just okay" then I'm not really excited to spend money. "playing it safe" is going to cost them money if it looks bland. Hopefully the upper horn is big or they do something because I don't like the lower cutaway at all.



Carvin's not going to release something that they don't think will sell. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will satisfy the demands of the SSO population. There's no reason to think that we're a representative sample of Carvin's potential market, even where 7+ string models are concerned.


----------



## gigawhat

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You underestimate SSO's want of an ERG headless.



+1

As long as the top horn doesnt look exactly like the bottom horn, I'm in. I want a multi-scale headless 7 but unless it is ugly-as-sin, the ability to spec out a semi-custom headless 7 of Carvin quality and price is straight winning.


----------



## Mangekyo

celticelk said:


> Carvin's not going to release something that they don't think will sell. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will satisfy the demands of the SSO population. There's no reason to think that we're a representative sample of Carvin's potential market, even where 7+ string models are concerned.



You've been saying that first sentence in almost every post you've made in regard to this guitar, in every topic mentioned on this forum. I think we all understand this very well but surely you must get tired of saying this? Not trying to sound disrespectful, but honestly... Hot damn.


If Carvin just throws a slab of wood and puts a bevel on it and acts like it's "hot shiznit" it isn't really satisfying. Yeah it's headless, but the body matters even when we the headstock is gone. Idk who they're appealing to but keeping it basic doesn't reach to a wide market. I understand the strat shape, but this is almost non distinct. Gender neutral. That isn't appealing either. If the lower left section is "strandberg esque" the guitar seems too tiny and cut up. Dunno why they couldn't just keep the CT shape.


----------



## stevexc

Mangekyo said:


> I understand the strat shape, but this is almost non distinct. Gender neutral.



Typically that'll happen when you crop everything but the ass and chin out of a picture.

Man, you can only see one horn and a bit of the end. There's simply not enough to judge the body. There's mockups showing full-on Strandberg aesthetics - while not necessarily likely, given what we know it's entirely possible.

And "keeping it basic" is exactly what DOES appeal to a wider market. The more "unique" you make the shape, the more "character" you give it, the fewer niches it'll fit into.

Just relax and be patient. You can be disappointed in 4 days once it's all revealed and there's a few more images and angles to see and judge it from. celticelk's just trying to quite politely argue your point that they'll "lost money" and "not reach a wide market" if they play it safe - Carvin very much knows what will sell. And I can guarantee they have a solid focus on creating a guitar that will sell.


----------



## leonardo7

No greater entertainment probably exists for the guys at Carvin than reading these threads


----------



## GXPO

I wonder how many of the initial Vader orders are going to be Kiesel Edition with green and black custom blocked out paint jobs? I'm almost used to seeing it this way now.. 

I hope that top horn is slightly elongated. I can't imagine it working aesthetically with a second stubby.


----------



## Mangekyo

Don't take my post the wrong way, I meant no offense. Being direct isn't a crime.



stevexc said:


> Typically that'll happen when you crop everything but the ass and chin out of a picture.
> 
> Man, you can only see one horn and a bit of the end. There's simply not enough to judge the body. There's mockups showing full-on Strandberg aesthetics - while not necessarily likely, given what we know it's entirely possible.
> 
> And "keeping it basic" is exactly what DOES appeal to a wider market. The more "unique" you make the shape, the more "character" you give it, the fewer niches it'll fit into.
> 
> Just relax and be patient. You can be disappointed in 4 days once it's all revealed and there's a few more images and angles to see and judge it from. celticelk's just trying to quite politely argue your point that they'll "lost money" and "not reach a wide market" if they play it safe - Carvin very much knows what will sell. And I can guarantee they have a solid focus on creating a guitar that will sell.



I'm hoping that I'm wrong, I never wanted to be more wrong than I do right now. Its been a couple years that I've wanted carvin to do a headless design (I thought the holdsworth was cool, but not for me. Too tiny). Now if this headless design is "okay" or "not for me" there's not much else to look forward to. It's doubtful they'll design yet another headless model for years. zzz It's all speculation anyway. 

All I know is the bottom cutaway is too close to the neck, the back of my hand will probably hit (which I hate). Maybe my style is "sloppy" looking or nimble, but it's my style. I dislike the SG body shape, so it being similar to that is disheartening. But hopefully, something, anything can make me feel better as they release more about it. I hope it isn't a baby guitar. Strandbergs are small without making me look like this-


----------



## Mangekyo

Also, I don't think making a "sharp" delap guitar is appealing to most people. If anything, they should leave the cutaways non-sharp which generally looks much better on headless guitars anyway. 

If it turns out looking delap I'm injecting myself with cancer (I doubt anybody can appreciate my dark and dry humor).


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, no stubby bass horn for me either. Please no!


----------



## stevexc

I really can't see this looking remotely Delap-ish. Delaps had almost symmetrical horns - only offset by about 2-3 frets (looking at the ends of the horns - 1 fret looking at the bases. Reference). There's a 4-fret offset between the bases of the Vader's horns... the bottom one doesn't even end until the base of the top horn. Even if the top horn is as "stubby" as the bottom one, it'll extend a fair bit further. I've got my money on something that looks like Tim's mockup from the last page.


----------



## jwade

If the upper horn isn't quite a lot longer, they'd be risking the guitar being seen as 'the metal version of the Holdsworth', which admittedly would work for some people, but would likely be seen as lazy by a lot of others. I think it'd be a major missed opportunity if this isn't a pretty new/unique shape.


----------



## Mangekyo

stevexc said:


> I really can't see this looking remotely Delap-ish. Delaps had almost symmetrical horns - only offset by about 2-3 frets (looking at the ends of the horns - 1 fret looking at the bases. Reference). There's a 4-fret offset between the bases of the Vader's horns... the bottom one doesn't even end until the base of the top horn. Even if the top horn is as "stubby" as the bottom one, it'll extend a fair bit further. I've got my money on something that looks like Tim's mockup from the last page.



Yeah but merely pushing the upper horn up two inches isn't really exhilarating, either. Also, the proportions and cutaway depth are already very similar to the delap, plus the overall size, and other Holdworth models and we have a sharp twin brother to delap.



jwade said:


> If the upper horn isn't quite a lot longer, they'd be risking the guitar being seen as 'the metal version of the Holdsworth', which admittedly would work for some people, but would likely be seen as lazy by a lot of others. I think it'd be a major missed opportunity if this isn't a pretty new/unique shape.



Let us hope, we all know how carvin's headstocks ruined a lot of models in the past. Now they're making a model without one (solving the problem) and it looks like they're possibly screwin' da pooch on the body design this time around.


----------



## celticelk

Mangekyo said:


> Yeah but merely pushing the upper horn up two inches isn't really exhilarating, either.



For you. The continued tendency of posters to assume that their personal aesthetic preference, or even the expressed preferences of a substantial portion of this forum's population, is actually a constraint on Carvin's ability to succeed is a big part of the reason that I keep trying (and, apparently, failing) to point out market realities.


----------



## Mangekyo

celticelk said:


> For you. The continued tendency of posters to assume that their personal aesthetic preference, or even the expressed preferences of a substantial portion of this forum's population, is actually a constraint on Carvin's ability to succeed is a big part of the reason that I keep trying (and, apparently, failing) to point out market realities.



If 50% want Red, and 50% want blue, the solution isn't to make a purple guitar.

I'd much rather have a blue, or red guitar, than a purple one. So being neutral Switzerland isn't always beneficial. Tim's mock up looks like a semi improved version of the delap. A delap with aggro. Anyway why is this thing named vader? It should be named Anakin, or Ani.


----------



## smucarolina

I think this guitar is going to suck and this thread is silly. You guys are arguing over something that isn't even out yet. Just wait and then you can complain. Plus more than half of you aren't even going to buy it.


----------



## HurrDurr

The more I look at that upper cutaway, the more I feel the horn is probably gonna reach up to the 13th fret. That mockup above is nice, but it doesn't follow the curve correctly there, so I doubt that's what the upper horn will look like or where it will be size and length-wise.


----------



## Mike

smucarolina said:


> I think this guitar is going to suck and this thread is silly. You guys are arguing over something that isn't even out yet. Just wait and then you can complain. Plus more than half of you aren't even going to buy it.



troll baiting?


----------



## Mangekyo

I think what DeathCukeK posted is probably on the money. If it is different, it might be the bottom right section, although it's more likely to be rounded instead of strandberg style'd. They shouldn't of used that green color because if it turns out how DeathCube laid it out, it looks like a toy.



HurrDurr said:


> The more I look at that upper cutaway, the more I feel the horn is probably gonna reach up to the 13th fret. That mockup above is nice, but it doesn't follow the curve correctly there, so I doubt that's what the upper horn will look like or where it will be size and length-wise.




You think it'll go that far up? I honestly don't see it going further than the 14th at most.


----------



## celticelk

Mangekyo said:


> If 50% want Red, and 50% want blue, the solution isn't to make a purple guitar.



True. The problem here is that 50% of the people *you know* want a red guitar, and 50% want blue, and you have no idea how large the potential market for the guitar is or what their aggregate preferences are. Under those circumstances, you've got very little support for a statement that "no one wants a purple guitar."


----------



## HurrDurr

I mean, It could just be that's what _*I*_ want to see, but I feel like that's where it'll go. between the 14th and 13th sounds likely.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

illimmigrant said:


> I don't quite get the whole Kiesel branding thing. It gives you further custom options like the stained fretboard, custom bursts, figured woods on the back (similar to the older "elite" models). None of those features really appeal to me, other than maybe requesting a finish not on the online builder. As far as I know, a Kiesel guitar will have just about the same quality as a Carvin, and it's made from the same woods supplied, so I don't they would actually sound any better or that much different than your standard Carvin, but maybe someone can chime in on this.


I question this as well. I mean, is Jeff trying to market himself as this "independent luthier" (thus charging the $3K prices of indie luthiers) and springboarding off the Carvin reputation and using Carvin supplies and facilities? Or is this like the high-end "private stock" (to use PRS terminology) of the Carvin factory?

I'm sorry, but if it doesn't feel/sound/play any different than a regular Carvin, then the only changes are in aesthetics. And a $1K-$2K price hike isn't worth it just for aesthetics in my opinion.


----------



## stevexc

Emperor Guillotine said:


> I question this as well. I mean, is Jeff trying to market himself as this "independent luthier" (thus charging the $3K prices of indie luthiers) and springboarding off the Carvin reputation and using Carvin supplies and facilities? Or is this like the high-end "private stock" (to use PRS terminology) of the Carvin factory?
> 
> I'm sorry, but if it doesn't feel/sound/play any different than a regular Carvin, then the only changes are in aesthetics. And a $1K-$2K price hike isn't worth it just for aesthetics in my opinion.




Addressed earlier in the thread:




BlackWinds10 said:


> I've talked to Chris about the whole Kiesel branding thing, and I feel I need to let everyone know that the Kiesel thing isn't going to be destroying their affordability. Now (Chris correct me if I"m wrong on this) Kiesel guitars are just guitars that have cool or special options that aren't considered standard options, so anything with an option 50 has the ability to become a Kiesel. There's no price hike for calling it a kiesel other than the fact you ordered an option 50. I ordered a DC600 days after receiving my GP7X and ordered the first Carvin with a Moss Green Caliburst and I found out (though too late in the build) that it could be called a Kiesel guitar just for the fact it has the Caliburst option 50. My guitar wasn't commanding some ridiculous price or anything, in fact it wasn't even nudging the 2k mark and it could be called a Kiesel.
> 
> The difference between Kiesel guitars and Kiesel editions now is, Kiesel editions are basically I suppose the private stock of Carvin. There's a 2k upcharge from base price of a model, the bodys are 5 piece and necks are 5 piece. It starts with a flame top and back, and flame neck with some sort of fillets if I recall. Jeff Kiesel himself builds these and basically anything you want, can be done.
> 
> So by doing this, I feel they're not losing their affordability, they're just rebranding their image to show they can make a solid guitar at a solid price, but also make a guitar that can be considered a work of art. I also think this rebranding of their image is going to keep the resale value high, I've already seen it begun to do so.



TL;DR aesthetic-only changes will be standard upcharges (ie. not 1-2k necessarily for a Kiesel-treated board) and come with the option for "Kiesel" on the HS. Non-production ones made by Jeff to custom specs will have the upcharge.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

^ Thanks, stevexc. 



smucarolina said:


> I think this guitar is going to suck and this thread is silly. You guys are arguing over something that isn't even out yet. Just wait and then you can complain. Plus more than half of you aren't even going to buy it.


And I do rather second this. Some of you gents let your imaginations get wayyyy too ahead of you. 

I do not think the guitar is "going to suck", but I bet it will be a letdown for many on here.


----------



## xwmucradiox

They're all 27" scale. Very cool!


----------



## illimmigrant

I'm not sure if this means they are all ONLY 27" scale or that they are available as 27" in addition to the standard 25.5" scale.


----------



## MBMoreno

illimmigrant said:


> I'm not sure if this means they are all ONLY 27" scale or that they are available as 27" in addition to the standard 25.5" scale.



The 27'' really puts me off. Although I wouldn't mind an "extra" guitar with one


----------



## jwade

illimmigrant said:


> I'm not sure if this means they are all ONLY 27" scale or that they are available as 27" in addition to the standard 25.5" scale.



...why are you somehow still speculating about 25.5" stuff when it says 27" in BRIGHT NEON GREEN?


----------



## illimmigrant

MBMoreno said:


> The 27'' really puts me off.



I share this sentiment


----------



## xwmucradiox

Reading back through this thread I have to say its very unfortunate that this is the only headless guitar in existence and there are no other options on the market for people who want something different. Its gotta be really tough for those folks that wanted this to be exactly like something else. No idea what option they will have now.


----------



## stevexc

stevexc said:


> Bari 6? More evidence away from single-cut at very least.



Caaaaaaalled iiiiiiiiiiit

This kinda definitely means I won't be buying one unless a 25.5" or shorter is also available. I want a headless for portability purposes mainly, and a longer scale length runs counter to that.

...although I could just tune it to Eb and keep a capo with me.... have a 25.5" in E and a 27" in Eb at the same time...


----------



## xwmucradiox

stevexc said:


> Caaaaaaalled iiiiiiiiiiit
> 
> This kinda definitely means I won't be buying one unless a 25.5" or shorter is also available. I want a headless for portability purposes mainly, and a longer scale length runs counter to that.
> 
> ...although I could just tune it to Eb and keep a capo with me.... have a 25.5" in E and a 27" in Eb at the same time...



The difference between a 27" scale headless and a 25.5" scale headless will be 1.5 inches. If 1.5 inches is make or break for portability then you must be playing on the space station. 

These guitars will still be several inches shorter than any typical 25.5" scale guitar.


----------



## HurrDurr

I kinda hope there's a 25.5" option because unless I'm on 8+ strings, I personally don't dig anything above a 25.5" scale. If not, I guess I'll spring for a Kiesel/Op50 25.5" scale neck. I'm not buying the 6 or 7 with anything above a 25.5", sorry.

EDIT: In response to *xwmucradiox*, I actually hadn't thought of it that way. It might not be as uncomfortable as I'd thought then, given the smaller body and all. I guess I'm willing to give it a chance and save myself the $$$ on the Op50.


----------



## stevexc

xwmucradiox said:


> The difference between a 27" scale headless and a 25.5" scale headless will be 1.5 inches. If 1.5 inches is make or break for portability then you must be playing on the space station.
> 
> These guitars will still be several inches shorter than any typical 25.5" scale guitar.



I should also mention I straight up don't like playing extended scales - I phrased my post a little poorly, while the scale length IS most likely make-or-break it's for more than just the length of the whole instrument.


----------



## Enselmis

Yep, same feeling here. Definitely not buying one if it's only 27" scale. That's actually the most disappointing thing.


----------



## celticelk

jwade said:


> ...why are you somehow still speculating about 25.5" stuff when it says 27" in BRIGHT NEON GREEN?



Could the bottom left of the image contain text that reads "25.5" scale 6,7 string models"? Or even just 6-string? I'm having a hard time believing that Carvin wouldn't at least offer a standard-scale 6-string version of this.


----------



## TauSigmaNova

I have a feeling that it could very well be cut off in front of 27 and might say 25.5 and 27 inch, but that's just speculation.


----------



## xwmucradiox

They offer a standard scale headless in the Holdsworth model. They probably wanted this to be dramatically different than this. 

The polling they did about baritones last year probably led them to making a 6 string version of this guitar in the first place since the dominant preference was 27"

The might not have made a 6 string at all if everyone had said 30" or something.

I'd still like to see a baritone 6 from carvin with a headstock.


----------



## xwmucradiox

celticelk said:


> Could the bottom left of the image contain text that reads "25.5" scale 6,7 string models"? Or even just 6-string? I'm having a hard time believing that Carvin wouldn't at least offer a standard-scale 6-string version of this.



There are 4 days left of the reveal and there is still the headstock, the upper horn, the bridge, and the controls to reveal. There might be more text, but I doubt it.


----------



## MatthewK

xwmucradiox said:


> Reading back through this thread I have to say its very unfortunate that this is the only headless guitar in existence and there are no other options on the market for people who want something different. Its gotta be really tough for those folks that wanted this to be exactly like something else. No idea what option they will have now.



Oh yeah, the market is just flooded with affordable headless guitars.


----------



## Mr_Metal_575

YEEEEEEEEAHHHHH BIATCH 27" SCALE FOR THE BR0OTz


----------



## asher

Think you could still fit 25.5" SCALE under there too, but I'm a little doubtful.


----------



## cardinal

The difference between 25.5 and 27" is like adding one fret to the end of a 25.5 scale neck. For me at least, the fret spacing is pretty easy to adjust to. String tension is a bit more of an issue IMHO if you stay in standard tuning. If you play .010s at 25.5 you can just drop to .009s. But if you already like .009s at 25.5, well I guess you could try .008s...


----------



## JSanta

Well, if it's only at 27" then I'm out. My Gypsy jazz guitar is 26.5" and the fret spacing is about all I can handle.


----------



## Santuzzo

I have never even played a Carvin, but this is getting me very excited


----------



## fortisursus

Big disappointment if it is only offered as a 27 inch scale length. At least give me a 25.5" 6 string please.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

4 more reveals left. Top horn, bridge, headstock, and bottom left body. Looks like 27 is all you get. I personally love 27 inch scales, but it's impossible to deny that lack of variety sucks. 

This is still very much a potential buy for me.


----------



## thrsher

Someone on Feb made a good point, if you want a standard scale 6, order a holdsworth


----------



## Adam Of Angels

How do we know this is 27"?


----------



## gunshow86de

thrsher said:


> Someone on Feb made a good point, if you want a standard scale 6, order a holdsworth



The Holdworth is a hollowbody and a singlecut, not exactly the same thing.


----------



## Guitarrags

I'm out lol


----------



## Electric Wizard

1/13/15 - The day that a scale length was too long for SSO.


----------



## Jake

27" is fine for me and I have baby hands 

Still very much interested in this


----------



## jwade

I guess there could be another line of text underneath. I took the picture and cranked up a couple of the values:


----------



## xwmucradiox

MatthewK said:


> Oh yeah, the market is just flooded with affordable headless guitars.



Affordable is a relative term. This guitar specced out by most folks will probably be well over $1500.


----------



## dschonn

Scale length makes sense to me, at least considering the name.
Not meant for jokes.


----------



## gunshow86de

27" isn't a deal breaker for me, but I definitely prefer the timbre of 25.5" (or smaller) for the higher strings.


----------



## Dakotaspex

Dangit. Well, I guess if I get one, it'll be an 8 for the 27" scale. Have a 26.5" scale and I much prefer 25.5". Still should be a sick guitar though. Hope I get to try one.


----------



## 7stg

xwmucradiox said:


> They're all 27" scale. Very cool!



So, as I see it, we got a -
Baritone 6
Standard 7
Short 8

I don't play 6's, I'll get the 7, and if they make a baritone 8 at 29.4 - 30 inches I'll get that.


----------



## Dominoes282

Damn, guys, and here I was hoping for a >28" scale


----------



## axionjax

Guitarrags said:


> I'm out lol



This forum is a 27" scale, im out


----------



## 7stg

Mike jones on the Carvin Thread-
The top horn reveal will be 2 spaces worth at once, so that's why the black extends out so close to the V. 

So longer horn.


----------



## asher

7stg said:


> Mike jones on the Carvin Thread-
> The top horn reveal will be 2 spaces worth at once, so that's why the black extends out so close to the V.
> 
> So longer horn.



Nice.

Still not holding my breath to see "25.5" SCALE 6, 7, 8 STRING MODELS" appear below 27" because phrasing it that way is all kinds of bad. But it's possible...


----------



## gigawhat

Damn, I have literally 0% interest in this now, I can't play anything over 26.5, it causes my hand to cramp like a motherfvcker. Fvck, this seriously kinda ruins my day.


----------



## Hollowway

I think it's probably a wise decision that they release this as a 27" sixxer. Right now they have NO baritone 6 for people. There are standard scale 6s, headless 6s, and loads of other variations on 6 strings. So this fills a gap in the line up. I wouldn't be surprised if a 25.5" came out eventually. But I'd have done the same thing. And I don't play bari sixxers.


----------



## ferret

I was pretty confident it was 27", but confirmation means I'm out. Would consider a headless 6 double cut, but not a baritone 6. Not what I'm looking for right now. May go for HH2 after all, ponder ponder ponder.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

I've just received confirmation from Jeff Kiesel that my 8 string Vader has just been finished and will be at NAMM for everybody to try it out - I'm SO stoked


----------



## mnemonic

I for one, welcome a 27" scale. 

Too few sevens out there with a 27" scale. Almost everything is 25.5".


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Like 500 of us have said already, I'm hoping that 27" scale will be offered on the other super Strat models this year. Imagine a DC with a baritone scale, no inlays, and just one humbucker. Mmmmmmmmm.

I do think it's kind of odd that these Headless things would be 27" only... I kind of wonder if that won't be the case. If it is, I bet it won't be so for long.


----------



## celticelk

Hollowway said:


> I think it's probably a wise decision that they release this as a 27" sixxer. Right now they have NO baritone 6 for people. There are standard scale 6s, headless 6s, and loads of other variations on 6 strings. So this fills a gap in the line up. I wouldn't be surprised if a 25.5" came out eventually. But I'd have done the same thing. And I don't play bari sixxers.



I see what you're getting at, but that's also a gamble that the crowd that wants a Carvin baritone 6 is (mostly) willing to take a headless, and that the crowd that wants a headless 6-string non-HH is (mostly) willing to take a baritone. Those don't seem like intuitive propositions to me. Carvin, of course, may have better data - I've used that argument enough against other people, so it would be dishonest to deny it now - but I have trouble seeing it.


----------



## troyguitar

Mangekyo said:


> If 50% want Red, and 50% want blue, the solution isn't to make a purple guitar.



The solution is ALWAYS to make a purple guitar.



Enselmis said:


> Yep, same feeling here. Definitely not buying one if it's only 27" scale. That's actually the most disappointing thing.



Yeah. I was considering just buying one and retrofitting the 7-string Strandberg trem onto it, but not at 27" scale. By the time I've cut off the end of the neck and made it 23 frets 25.5" scale AND retrofitted the trem I might as well have just built my own guitar in the first place 



xwmucradiox said:


> They offer a standard scale headless in the Holdsworth model. They probably wanted this to be dramatically different than this.



Standard scale 6 string, not 7/8...


----------



## timbucktu123

maybe the non-baritone version is called something different


----------



## Hollowway

celticelk said:


> I see what you're getting at, but that's also a gamble that the crowd that wants a Carvin baritone 6 is (mostly) willing to take a headless, and that the crowd that wants a headless 6-string non-HH is (mostly) willing to take a baritone. Those don't seem like intuitive propositions to me. Carvin, of course, may have better data - I've used that argument enough against other people, so it would be dishonest to deny it now - but I have trouble seeing it.



Yeah, I have no idea what their rationale is, but if they could only offer one new six string headless, this makes more sense then another 25.5" since the HH already fits the bill. The 27" crowd would have nothing. Of course, you're right in that it's not about having a wide range of options, but instead about meeting market demand. And after hanging out on here for 5 years my idea of the market is horribly skewed!


----------



## jwade

So the remaining blocks, 1. upper horn 2. Ass end/hardware 3. Last couple frets/lack of headstock and 4. I'm assuming will be a long line of text under the scale length that says 'Come see it at NAMM!' or something similar.


----------



## HaloHat

jwade said:


> I guess there could be another line of text underneath. I took the picture and cranked up a couple of the values:



Good point. The area at the bottom of the pic could say much. 

Also it would seem with Mike Jones comment about the upper bout being two spaces it would seem we can expect a longer bout. I hope it is as sharp/pointy as the lower bout and also has the lower bouts contours.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Isn't Carvin's standard six scale length 25"? What's all this 25.5" business everyone was expecting? I think the only sixers they make that are 25.5 are the Bolts. The neck-thrus and set necks are all 25"


----------



## MJS

Maybe revealing the 27" part was just a tease and the block under it will be a bunch of tiny text that says, "Just kidding... you can choose from 24.75, 25.5, 26.5, 27, 28 or 30 inch scale lengths. Fanned frets also available at no extra charge."


----------



## MBMoreno

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Isn't Carvin's standard six scale length 25"? What's all this 25.5" business everyone was expecting? I think the only sixers they make that are 25.5 are the Bolts. The neck-thrus and set necks are all 25"



It may be true for the carved tops, but the neck-thrus definitely have 25,5'' scales


----------



## Tzar27

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Isn't Carvin's standard six scale length 25"? What's all this 25.5" business everyone was expecting? I think the only sixers they make that are 25.5 are the Bolts. The neck-thrus and set necks are all 25"



That's true for most of the 6 string models, but all of their 7 string models have a 25.5" scale except for the DC7X, which is 27".


----------



## SnowfaLL

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Isn't Carvin's standard six scale length 25"? What's all this 25.5" business everyone was expecting? I think the only sixers they make that are 25.5 are the Bolts. The neck-thrus and set necks are all 25"



Holdsworth models are 25.5 also. Every 7 string model is 25.5 instead of 25


----------



## celticelk

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Isn't Carvin's standard six scale length 25"? What's all this 25.5" business everyone was expecting? I think the only sixers they make that are 25.5 are the Bolts. The neck-thrus and set necks are all 25"



If, theoretically, Carvin were to offer a "standard" and "baritone" scale version of the Vader's 6- and 7-string models, it would make more sense to offer both as 25.5 than to offer the 6 as 25 and the 7 as 25.5, in terms of sizing for proper bridge/neck relationship. If the existing HH model is also 25.5, that might provide some extra efficiencies if the other headless 6 is in the same scale.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Electric Wizard said:


> 1/13/15 - The day that a scale length was too long for SSO.


Haha, I never thought the day would come.
Isn't 27" like everyone's favorite scale length around here anyway?

Well, with that said, anyone want to buy some gear from me or get some musical services done so that I can put money down on a Vader and proceed to discourage people by reviewing it and describe how it having a mere 1.5" of extra scale length is inhibiting my playing?


----------



## iamnoah262

MBMoreno said:


> It may be true for the carved tops, but the neck-thrus definitely have 25,5'' scales



Errrrr wrong. Neck through are a 25" scale. Check the website.


----------



## Hollowway

MBMoreno said:


> It may be true for the carved tops, but the neck-thrus definitely have 25,5'' scales



I initially missed it too, but Grand Moff T was talking about the 6 strings only. That seems to be the crowd that is mostly dismayed about the 27" length in this. And for Carvin sixxers, he's right about the scale length.


----------



## troyguitar

iamnoah262 said:


> Errrrr wrong. Neck through are a 25" scale. Check the website.



7's are 25.5, 6's are 25.

I'd actually prefer the 25 in a 7, but would settle for 25.5 - I will not settle for 27 though. My current 7's are 24.75 and 25.


----------



## Hollowway

I'm actually surprised how many people on here were planning on getting the six string. I'd figure this crowd would only be into the extended scale 7s and 8s.


----------



## Ocara-Jacob

I'm thinking about getting the 8. I have a DC727 that I absolutely love and more than enough decent 6 strings, but my only 8 is an RG8. Imma sell that (along with one of my sixers) and start saving for one of these!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man fvck y'all guys Carvin should have released a 27'' 6 string over a decade ago.


----------



## 7stg

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Man fvck y'all guys Carvin should have released a 27'' 6 string over a decade ago.



I can hardly believe how many are opposed to a baritone 6 over on the Carvin forum.


----------



## Hollowway

7stg said:


> I can hardly believe how many are opposed to a baritone 6 over on the Carvin forum.



You mean there's a lot? Or a little? I would have expected a lot of people opposed to it, because a lot of the guys are pretty conservative. The guys who are more into metal/ERG are all on here as well.  I can spot them a mile away! 

I'm also going to get the 8. Knowing full well that within the next 2 years there will be a multiscale. But I don't wanna wait!


----------



## Nlelith

With 27" scale only 7-string version is appealing to me. Not sure if I'll get one, though.


----------



## Spacestationfive

Hollowway said:


> I'm actually surprised how many people on here were planning on getting the six string. I'd figure this crowd would only be into the extended scale 7s and 8s.



SSO brings a lot of us guitar nuts together for reasons beyond a mere 7th string...


----------



## celticelk

Hollowway said:


> You mean there's a lot? Or a little? I would have expected a lot of people opposed to it, because a lot of the guys are pretty conservative.



I think it's more complicated than that. Keep in mind that there are people who don't particularly like the tonal effect of standard-tuned strings at long scales. That's one of the selling points of multiscale instruments, and I'm willing to bet that it's one reason why some players even here prefer 25.5" (or shorter!) for their 7-strings. (As a corollary, how many of the players who will only play 27" 7s are tuning them down at least a whole step?) If you're an experimentally-inclined jazz or rock or electronic guitarist - and a fair few of those guys play or have played headless instruments, based on my time hanging out in the guitar-looping forums - who prefers standard tuning, or the tonal effects of standard-scale guitars tuned down, a baritone-scale headless might not be the right combination.


----------



## ferret

7stg said:


> I can hardly believe how many are opposed to a baritone 6 over on the Carvin forum.



It's not that we're opposed to them having one, I don't think. I'm GLAD they will have one. I just won't BUY one. 27" is just not my scale, so Vader is out for me, unfortunately, even for 7 string.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

MBMoreno said:


> It may be true for the carved tops, but the neck-thrus definitely have 25,5'' scales



No, they definitely don't.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Isn't Carvin's *standard six* scale length 25"?





Tzar27 said:


> That's true for most of the 6 string models, but* all of their 7 string models* have a 25.5" scale except for the DC7X, which is 27".





SnowfaLL said:


> Holdsworth models are 25.5 also. *Every 7 string model* is 25.5 instead of 25




Sigh.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

celticelk said:


> If, theoretically, Carvin were to offer a "standard" and "baritone" scale version of the Vader's 6- and 7-string models, it would make more sense to offer both as 25.5 than to offer the 6 as 25 and the 7 as 25.5, in terms of sizing for proper bridge/neck relationship. If the existing HH model is also 25.5, that might provide some extra efficiencies if the other headless 6 is in the same scale.



Now _there's _how to reply to a post using both reading comprehension and critical thinking. Take note, folks.

Good points. I kinda think it's most likely that they'll all be 27", but I suppose it's neither here nor there for me. I'll pay more attention if and when they make a headless bass .

Then again, I was checking out how much Hipshot headless bass systems cost the other day....


----------



## SnowfaLL

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Sigh.



You stated the only 25.5" 6 string model was the Bolts. I was just pointing out that the Holdsworth models (which ARE 6 strings) are 25.5" too.


----------



## stevexc

SnowfaLL said:


> You stated the only 25.5" 6 string model was the Bolts. I was just pointing out that the Holdsworth models (which ARE 6 strings) are 25.5" too.



He was addressing the 7-string portion of your post, not the Holdsworth part. And technically he did say "I think", but I don't think he was taking issue with that part of your correction.



Grand Moff Tim said:


> Good points. I kinda think it's most likely that they'll all be 27", but I suppose it's neither here nor there for me. I'll pay more attention if and when they make a headless bass .



I would be standing very firmly at attention if they did that. My biggest beef with Carvin basses is the headstocks and I've been dreaming of a headless bass since I was a kid.

Hmmm... judging from jwade's edited image, I see 3 distinct boxes, one of which may be split into two ("headstock" region, upper horn, bottom of guitar that could be split into controls and bridge areas) plus a 4th area under the text. I could reasonably see them revealing the controls and bridge simultaneously, and also announcing that this will be available in 25.5" scale for 6s and 7s. It makes sense to me to have it available in both baritone length and "standard" length... the people that want a headless baritone 6 and the people that want a headless non-Holdsworth standard-scale 6 don't necessarily overlap. Good on them for providing something for the bari-6 crowd, but this is a subsection of players that want a niche of a niche.

I'm predicting one or both to happen:

- announcement that this will be available in 25.5" (or 25" or 24.75" or whatever non-baritone scale they choose), either through the image reveal OR when they do a formal accouncement after the fact.
- announcement of a "standard" baritone 6 (DC6X for instance) for the assumedly large population that wants a baritone 6 and also wants a headless.

It just doesn't make sense to only appeal to the overlap of two niches when it would be relatively easy to satisfy both of them. I mean, sure you'll always have a couple people disappointed by things like the horns they haven't seen yet or the arbitrary color choice that you don't have to pick anyway, but better to satisfy 99*% of people with 3 models than 10*% with one.

I'm not too worried - aside from maybe Schecter, I can't think of any company as receptive to their audience as Carvin is (in no small part thanks to Jeff Kiesel). I mean, how long did it take them to get a singlecut 7 and an extended scale 7 put out? I mean, I've been wrong before, but I've also been right before (and with worse logic, too!).

EDIT: I do want to also throw in that it's entirely possible that space under the scale lengths IS the last box, but will only have price and/or release date.

*numbers provided by SAFC, the Steve's Ass Foundation of Canada


----------



## MBMoreno

Grand Moff Tim said:


> No, they definitely don't.



Sorry, my bad. 

But they must have changed that recently. A friend of mine has a DC127 that has a 25,5'' scale. Unless it was an option 50 (which I think int wasn't)

Edit: I MEANT A DC127!


----------



## wannabguitarist

MBMoreno said:


> Sorry, my bad.
> 
> But they must have changed that recently. A friend of mine has a DC727 that has a 25,5'' scale. Unless it was an option 50 (which I think int wasn't)



All the 7-string neck throughs (other than the baritone DC700) are 25.5in. The 6-string ones are 25in 

EDIT: Looks like this as already been covered


----------



## MBMoreno

wannabguitarist said:


> All the 7-string neck throughs (other than the baritone DC700) are 25.5in. The 6-string ones are 25in



I meant a DC127


----------



## Schaug

Come on already. Upper horn! Upper horn! Upper horn!


----------



## mbardu

MBMoreno said:


> Sorry, my bad.
> 
> But they must have changed that recently. A friend of mine has a DC127 that has a 25,5'' scale. Unless it was an option 50 (which I think int wasn't)
> 
> Edit: I MEANT A DC127!



No he doesn't. 
The dc127 is a 6-string neck through model and they are and have been 25" for at least 20 years. 

Carvin doesn't option-50 scale length (or anything structural for that matter, since their cnc is pretty fixed).

You might be confusing the dc127 for a 7-string model. The 7-string models are the dc7xx or the ct7.


----------



## xwmucradiox

People seem to think Option 50 now means you can have literally anything you want if you have money. Its probably just the upcharge to have someone hit "cancel" on a CNC program in the middle of the process so they can drill a few control holes by hand or the paint guy wings it on a finish that hasn't been done before. Or someone just takes 15 minutes out of their normal routine to find that one piece of wood the customer sent in and glue it on the blank instead of something from their normal stock. Its a "this is a ....ing hassle" fee. Changing the scale length would be an insane amount of work for a shop like Carvin. They just couldn't charge enough money to make it worthwhile for one customer's guitar.


----------



## ChrisH

MBMoreno said:


> Sorry, my bad.
> 
> But they must have changed that recently. A friend of mine has a DC127 that has a 25,5'' scale. Unless it was an option 50 (which I think int wasn't)
> 
> Edit: I MEANT A DC127!



It's been 25" since the late 80's and we don't do changes in the scale length.

Are you sure that he's sure though? Because that's not something we would even consider Opt 50'ing. Sometimes people think that it's a 25.5" when it really isn't and sometimes they measure the wrong way. You have no idea how many guys we get calling and saying their guitars are 25.5" when in fact they are 25" or they have our old 24.75" scale from the 80's.

We DID however have a neck through 25.5" scale guitar called the LS175 back in 1991 and it was discontinued that same year. That neck showed up on a few guitars manufactured at the time so if the DC127 is from the early 90's there is a possibility this was requested by the original owner. Only thing though is that these guitars usually only came with 22 frets and not 24 like our other neck throughs.


----------



## Warg Master

REVEAL THE NEXT ALREADY!!! 
[email protected]
Q$55
46
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----------



## stevexc

ChrisH said:


> It's been 25" since the late 80's and we don't do changes in the scale length.
> 
> Are you sure that he's sure though? Because that's not something we would even consider Opt 50'ing. Sometimes people think that it's a 25.5" when it really isn't and sometimes they measure the wrong way. You have no idea how many guys we get calling and saying their guitars are 25.5" when in fact they are 25" or they have our old 24.75" scale from the 80's.
> 
> We DID however have a neck through 25.5" scale guitar called the LS175 back in 1991 and it was discontinued that same year. That neck showed up on a few guitars manufactured at the time so if the DC127 is from the early 90's there is a possibility this was requested by the original owner. Only thing though is that these guitars usually only came with 22 frets and not 24 like our other neck throughs.



So THAT'S the only post you come in here and correct? Jeeze, man, we're literally killing each other over scale lengths here! 

I kid, I kid.

Guys, chill, they've been pretty consistently posted at noon pacific. 18 more minutes!


----------



## ChrisH

stevexc said:


> So THAT'S the only post you come in here and correct? Jeeze, man, we're literally killing each other over scale lengths here!
> 
> I kid, I kid.
> 
> Guys, chill, they've been pretty consistently posted at noon pacific. 18 more minutes!


----------



## stevexc

Eh, I was wrong. 3 days, 3 obvious boxes to go!


----------



## porknchili

Bottom left revealed AND I was the first person to CORRECTLY post the picture.

(I'm looking at you, stevexc...)


----------



## xwmucradiox

I like the control positioning. Looks like that volume knob is just enough out of the way for my playing style.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Hollowway said:


> I'm also going to get the 8. Knowing full well that within the next 2 years there will be a multiscale. But I don't wanna wait!


Ditto my dude.  I'm planning/scheming for the funds already.

Chris: how do I put the money down, man?


----------



## Enselmis

My prediction:

They reveal the bridge and headstock (well, lack thereof) simultaneously because one implies the other and there's no sense doing one and then leaving the other hidden. They've also already stated that they're gonna do the 2 boxes covering the top horn simultaneously. However, that's only 2 days worth of reveals and there are 3 left. I predict the third one to be a second line of text showing 25 or 25.5" scale options for AT LEAST the 6 strings. I also think the bridge/end of neck reveal will be on the last day. This means the next 2 days will be top horn and then text, not necessarily in that order because they've sort of had a pattern of doing guitar, text, guitar text, guitar text. QED sorta?

Today's reveal is awesome though. 100% down with the shape now.

Edit: I'm probably also crazy. So there's that.


----------



## xwmucradiox

I wonder if they'll offer a rounded edges sort of deal like they have on the SC90?


----------



## Cloudy

Not huge on the rounded lower bit, was hoping it'd be more aggressive like the strandberg.

Crossing my fingers for a 25.5' 6 string still.


----------



## stevexc

porknchili said:


> Bottom left revealed AND I was the first person to CORRECTLY post the picture.
> 
> (I'm looking at you, stevexc...)



;D

Nobody said I don't fight dirty 

I like it so far, but I really wasn't expecting anything different. Carvin breaking into the ergo scene doesn't seem likely IMO.

I'm also of the same opinion as Enselmis; horn next, then probably some more text at the bottom, then bridge + "headstock". Although I can see the logic to doing the bridge seperately... "headstock" would reveal that it IS headless, but the bridge could potentially reveal a different hardware brand or something. There's still enough covered to hide a trem arm... ;P


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

I'm kind of thinking it's not actually "Vader" but that there's still a part of the name hidden under the black block at the left of "Vader".


----------



## Warg Master

Cloudy said:


> Not huge on the rounded lower bit, was hoping it'd be more aggressive like the strandberg.
> 
> Crossing my fingers for a 25.5' 6 string still.



Woah! that would be HUGE!


----------



## celticelk

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> I'm kind of thinking it's not actually "Vader" but that there's still a part of the name hidden under the black block at the left of "Vader".



The Carvin guys have said repeatedly that "Vader" is the actual model name.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

celticelk said:


> The Carvin guys have said repeatedly that "Vader" is the actual model name.



That's what they want us to think


----------



## Cloudy

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> That's what they want us to think



That comment and your name fit perfectly.


----------



## MetalMike04

Edit: posted the picture WAY too late, oops


----------



## celticelk

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> That's what they want us to think



There's also the fact (as I pointed out, I think, over in the Extended Range thread on this topic) that the Vader name is centered under the Kiesel and Carvin logos. If there's actually more name to the left, then Carvin's got the shittiest promotional graphic designer in history. It's much more likely that "Vader" is the name. The Carvin reps have been perfectly happy to let us speculate on various aspects of the reveal while smiling in the corner, but as far as I can tell they've never deliberately offered up misleading information.


----------



## gunshow86de

Alright! Volume _AND _tone knobs!!!So psyched now!!!11!one

/20 posts of speculation about actually being 2 volume knobs


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

celticelk said:


> There's also the fact (as I pointed out, I think, over in the Extended Range thread on this topic) that the Vader name is centered under the Kiesel and Carvin logos. If there's actually more name to the left, then Carvin's got the shittiest promotional graphic designer in history. It's much more likely that "Vader" is the name. The Carvin reps have been perfectly happy to let us speculate on various aspects of the reveal while smiling in the corner, but as far as I can tell they've never deliberately offered up misleading information.



I know, I know, that second comment was just a joke.


----------



## gunshow86de

For the final day, they'll just reveal Rachel Phelps wearing nothing but pasties.


----------



## Santuzzo

omg, GAS is growing stronger here .....


----------



## cubix

Looks pretty much like a HH2 with horns... I like it! 

gunshow86de - do You still own the HH2 ? I've seen Your old NGD post while searching for pictures


----------



## MatthewK

I'm glad they didn't try to do some lame Strandberg imitation on the bottom buttcheek.


----------



## Suho

Getting excited. I love the 27 inch scale. Body looks nice so far.


----------



## HaloHat

7stg said:


> I can hardly believe how many are opposed to a baritone 6 over on the Carvin forum.



Especially when they have "standard" scale six strings in a zillion models already and are getting their 24 fret Bolt this year. Plus who knows what else at NAMM as the Carvin crew has said there are going to be a LOT of new gear his year. 

Weird


----------



## InfestedRabite

the horn reveal is tomorrow according to carvin BBS


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Upper horn is going to be a light saber, clearly.


----------



## gunshow86de

ElysianGuitars said:


> Upper horn is going to be a light saber, clearly.



With or without a crossguard?


----------



## crg123

Wow I love it. I'm not even a headless guy.


----------



## celticelk

HaloHat said:


> Especially when they have "standard" scale six strings in a zillion models already and are getting their 24 fret Bolt this year. Plus who knows what else at NAMM as the Carvin crew has said there are going to be a LOT of new gear his year.
> 
> Weird



It's not rocket science. People have preferences for scale length. I should think that you of all people would have understood that. The fact that Carvin already has standard scale 6s isn't going to magically make people want a baritone.


----------



## troyguitar

celticelk said:


> It's not rocket science. People have preferences for scale length. I should think that you of all people would have understood that. The fact that Carvin already has standard scale 6s isn't going to magically make people want a baritone.



dunno, it seems pretty silly to complain about a baritone headless 6 when they already offer a standard scale headless 6 with and without trem - 7 on the other hand... seems silly to offer a headless baritone 7 before offering a regular headless 7.

but the 7 string market as a whole is moving away from standard scales - they would probably sell more 7's at 35" scale than at 25" scale because IT'S SO BRUTAL MANNN!


----------



## celticelk

troyguitar said:


> dunno, it seems pretty silly to complain about a baritone headless 6 when they already offer a standard scale headless 6 with and without trem - 7 on the other hand... seems silly to offer a headless baritone 7 before offering a regular headless 7.
> 
> but the 7 string market as a whole is moving away from standard scales - they would probably sell more 7's at 35" scale than at 25" scale because IT'S SO BRUTAL MANNN!



I agree with respect to the 7s. The reason I don't agree for the 6s is that my (possibly flawed) perception is that the HH body is not universally loved, and consequently Carvin is probably leaving a lot of money on the table with respect to potential 6-string headless sales. Offering only a baritone scale length is not going to pick up too many of the customers who want a headless 6 but wouldn't buy the HH.

...and how weird is it that the guys getting left behind seem to be the ones who want a standard scale 6- or 7-string superstrat? Did someone declare Opposite Week when I wasn't looking?


----------



## BucketheadRules

Has it crossed anyone else's mind that they're just f*cking with us and it'll have a headstock after all?


----------



## SpaceDock

instead of a headstock, how about a big sharp spike


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm pretty sure there's no more text just because there's black space at the bottom. Horn, bridge, headstock. Them's my guesses on what's revealed next. (in that order too.)

If that entire bottom section was indeed one of the rectangles that has yet to be removed, then there are a bunch missing. (4 if they're single rectangles, 2 if they double up.) It just looks like you folks wanting a 25.5 or less scale are SOL.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

People wanting a 25.5" headless can just get an HH like they've been able to for a year now, or a Steinberger like they've been able to for thirty .


----------



## jerm

Grand Moff Tim said:


> People wanting a 25.5" headless can just get an HH like they've been able to for a year now, or a Steinberger like they've been able to for thirty .


To be honest the HH isn't that great looking not to mention it's missing a string.


----------



## gunshow86de

jerm said:


> To be honest the HH isn't that great looking not to mention it's missing a string.



And it's a hollow/semi-hollow body.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

gunshow86de said:


> And it's a hollow/semi-hollow body.



It's chambered, not semi-hollow or hollow.

edit: I should say I thought it was chambered, not hollow/semi-hollow. Initial way I worded it sounds a bit confrontational.


----------



## troyguitar

Grand Moff Tim said:


> People wanting a 25.5" headless can just get an HH like they've been able to for a year now, or a Steinberger like they've been able to for thirty .



Which one of those is available in 7-string?

...and you're complaining that other people are the ones who can't read properly?


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I meant a 25.5" sixer. Thought that was obvious in the context of the conversation.

EDIT: And it was screamingly obvious I was being facetious. Christ, people.


----------



## Kleshas

I dunno.... maybe it's just me but don't you guys think they _won't_ do a 25.5" scale specifically _because_ of the HH model?

I mean, think about it. Holdsworth is a very important person to have on their roster. Currently his 6 string is the only headless model the company sells. If they release a 25.5" scale 6 string headless Vader, that could potentially cut into Allan's sales so maybe they are playing it safe to keep him happy. Sure they might lose some sales because some people don't want a 27" but to lose a legendary endorser AND a few guitar models over it doesn't seem worth it.

Maybe they won't ever release a Vader standard scale 6 because of that or maybe they'll work something out with Allan first because I'm pretty sure they don't want him leaving.

Just my


----------



## Chokey Chicken

troyguitar said:


> Which one of those is available in 7-string?
> 
> ...and you're complaining that other people are the ones who can't read properly?



There have been a handful of people a page or two back who are saying they're hoping against hope that below the "27 inch scale 6, 7, and 8 models" is going to be some sort of "25 inch 6 string models."


----------



## troyguitar

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I meant a 25.5" sixer. Thought that was obvious in the context of the conversation.



Lots of numbers and opinions in here, nothing is obvious.


----------



## rapterr15

I'm gonna retain hope that the reveals are gonna be upper horn, 25.5" scale for 6's and 7's, and then the bridge and headless. I agree with the previous poster who mentioned revealing the bridge and head at the same time makes sense because one gives away the other. I hope I'm right and that all these complaints about the 27" scale length (which have merit) will have been premature.

Releasing an extended scale length first before the availability of a standard scale length just doesn't seem like a sensible business decision. I play my six in standard tuning with 9's so if I want to play in standard tuning on a 7, I'll need 8's. But, 7 string sets in that gauge don't exist afaik, so I'd have to rely on Circle K exclusively I suppose. I could probably get used to the added tension I suppose if I played with 9's on the extended scale.

I think in three days time when all the details are revealed, it will determine whether I decide to find and buy a Boden OS when I'm in Tokyo next month.


----------



## rapterr15

Kleshas said:


> I dunno.... maybe it's just me but don't you guys think they _won't_ do a 25.5" scale specifically _because_ of the HH model?
> 
> I mean, think about it. Holdsworth is a very important person to have on their roster. Currently his 6 string is the only headless model the company sells. If they release a 25.5" scale 6 string headless Vader, that could potentially cut into Allan's sales so maybe they are playing it safe to keep him happy. Sure they might lose some sales because some people don't want a 27" but to lose a legendary endorser AND a few guitar models over it doesn't seem worth it.
> 
> Maybe they won't ever release a Vader standard scale 6 because of that or maybe they'll work something out with Allan first because I'm pretty sure they don't want him leaving.
> 
> Just my



You make a valid point, but the Holdsworth models are chambered whereas I'm gonna go ahead and assume these won't be. Plus not everyone like the superstrat shape, and the necks on these will likely be a lot thinner. I think the Holdsworth and this model will be 2 different animals.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

The headstock will be Darth Vader's head.

That or a wall hanger/beer opener.


----------



## Kleshas

rapterr15 said:


> You make a valid point, but the Holdsworth models are chambered whereas I'm gonna go ahead and assume these won't be. Plus not everyone like the superstrat shape, and the necks on these will likely be a lot thinner. I think the Holdsworth and this model will be 2 different animals.



That's the thing I'm pondering right now. What if they _are_ chambered and that's why they only revealed the 27" thing. It doesn't make sense to me for them to reveal 27" scale and then towards the end of it reveal 25.5" also. Then the difference would be body shape and neck thickness which you can get a thinner neck on a HH anyways so that doesn't really count. I think just the fact that it is a headless 6 changes the game and maybe Allan has exclusive contract deals with them that prohibits them from releasing another headless guitar that would potentially compete with his. Non Holdsworth fans were buying it just because it's a headless so who knows how much he was getting for all those sales. Now that there's what we're assuming is a double cut coming out, all the potential customers might start buying the Vader and HH sales dip drastically causing him to say "I'm out" and go with another company. I dunno but that's what I think is behind the 6 string 25.5" thing. 

Which brings me to the 7, if they can't do a 25.5" scale because of Allan, wouldn't it be easier for them to just do 27" scales all across the board instead of one random 7 string model in 25.5"?

I think once they release the model and there's a huge demand for 25.5" it'll happen. They've been listening to SSO and Facebook feedback a lot more so I can only assume that they'll do it later on. How much later is the question.


----------



## fortisursus

I'm hoping that I despise the body in hope that I don't become even more sad about the scale length  and to the HH view... some of us just find it downright ugly. But hey differences in perspective keep things interesting. Maybe I'll become a extended range convert!


----------



## BornToLooze

BucketheadRules said:


> Has it crossed anyone else's mind that they're just f*cking with us and it'll have a headstock after all?



Since the picture is too short to have a normal headstock it'll probably be something like this


----------



## Enselmis

Kleshas said:


> That's the thing I'm pondering right now. What if they _are_ chambered and that's why they only revealed the 27" thing.* It doesn't make sense to me for them to reveal 27" scale and then towards the end of it reveal 25.5" also.* Then the difference would be body shape and neck thickness which you can get a thinner neck on a HH anyways so that doesn't really count. I think just the fact that it is a headless 6 changes the game and maybe Allan has exclusive contract deals with them that prohibits them from releasing another headless guitar that would potentially compete with his. Non Holdsworth fans were buying it just because it's a headless so who knows how much he was getting for all those sales. Now that there's what we're assuming is a double cut coming out, all the potential customers might start buying the Vader and HH sales dip drastically causing him to say "I'm out" and go with another company. I dunno but that's what I think is behind the 6 string 25.5" thing.
> 
> Which brings me to the 7, if they can't do a 25.5" scale because of Allan, wouldn't it be easier for them to just do 27" scales all across the board instead of one random 7 string model in 25.5"?
> 
> I think once they release the model and there's a huge demand for 25.5" it'll happen. They've been listening to SSO and Facebook feedback a lot more so I can only assume that they'll do it later on. How much later is the question.



I disagree. I think just judging solely by the contents of this thread it makes perfect sense. Look at all the discussion its created since they revealed the scale length. Yes, a lot of people are polarized but we're all talking about it and everybody who has participated is now somewhat emotionally invested, enough to take a side at least. It's all about making people care. Now, when they reveal on the second last day that it's ALSO available in 25.5" or 25" they get to play the hero to all of those people who were worried they were gonna be excluded.

That's my take at least. Otherwise it's just an even more niche instrument than it already was and all the people who were hoping for a regular scale option, who I think are a majority outside of this particular forum judging from the carvin boards, walk away with a bad taste in their mouths.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

I just want to say, we _will_ actually know the answer to all of these questions really soon. Let's stay friends in the meantime.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Hey, following the Hipshot headless system guess + 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do u think?


----------



## Forkface

^ damn, that actually looks very good. 10/10 Gimp skills


----------



## rapterr15

Yea but he forgot to add "25.5" scale 6 and 7 string models" to make us short scale fans feel better about ourselves.


----------



## 7stg

SpaceDock said:


> instead of a headstock, how about a big sharp spike



If you put really long strings on it and not trim them, you can swing the guitar around and whack people.


----------



## Kleshas

Enselmis said:


> I disagree. I think just judging solely by the contents of this thread it makes perfect sense. Look at all the discussion its created since they revealed the scale length. Yes, a lot of people are polarized but we're all talking about it and everybody who has participated is now somewhat emotionally invested, enough to take a side at least. It's all about making people care. Now, when they reveal on the second last day that it's ALSO available in 25.5" or 25" they get to play the hero to all of those people who were worried they were gonna be excluded.
> 
> That's my take at least. Otherwise it's just an even more niche instrument than it already was and all the people who were hoping for a regular scale option, who I think are a majority outside of this particular forum judging from the carvin boards, walk away with a bad taste in their mouths.



I hope you're right, I'd actually prefer a 25.5" 6 myself but I'm just speculating.



Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Hey, following the Hipshot headless system guess + 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do u think?



If this is how it looks I'm getting a 7 right away!


----------



## decreebass

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Hey, following the Hipshot headless system guess + 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do u think?



I feel like you're VERY close to reality. I bet someone at Carvin is shaking their head at you for 'giving it away' lol - Though I feel like the upper horn is probably 'sharper.'

Either way, I'm ordering mine the second they call me.

I'm on the list to order! (I'm kind of a big deal - I have many leather-bound books... AND my band's album is on Rhapsody, so I'm basically an unendorsed endorser!)


----------



## jerm

upper horn should have bevels like the lower one.


----------



## nyxzz

No standard scale kills this for me, guess I'll just have to go with the HH2. Carvin plz


----------



## mnemonic

That mockup looks really good. Really, really good. 

Also, I thought this 'reveal a bit at a time' strategy was a bit silly at first, though I was pretty clearly wrong, look how much discussion it's generated! 

Meanwhile chrisH watches us and laughs. Laughs about how wrong we all are.


----------



## canuck brian

Grand Moff Tim said:


> People wanting a 25.5" headless can just get an HH like they've been able to for a year now, or a Steinberger like they've been able to for thirty .



The HH looks like an early term abortion of a telecaster and I don't think Steinberger suddenly came back into business and started offering semi-custom options on all of their models like flame tops, birdseye fretboards and a plethora of colors at less than $3500 for a normal used Steinberger.

For the 7 and 8 string models, i completely understand the notion to go with a 27 inch scale, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to do the same for the 6 string. You immediately shut out the non-sevenstring.org people (so an overwhleming majority of guitar players) out of getting a headless 6 string from Carvin that doesn't look like crap. 

With Carvin already using Hipshot bridges on a lot of their models, they're probably going with Hipshot headless bridges. They're built awesome and they're great quality.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

decreebass said:


> I'm on the list to order! (I'm kind of a big deal - I have many leather-bound books... AND my band's album is on Rhapsody, so I'm basically an unendorsed endorser!)


----------



## asher

decreebass said:


> I'm on the list to order! (I'm kind of a big deal - I have many leather-bound books... AND my band's album is on Rhapsody, so I'm basically an unendorsed endorser!)



But does your apartment smell of rich mahogany?

Do people _know_ you?


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

asher said:


> But does your apartment smell of rich *oak*?
> 
> Do people _know_ you.....and your large chair in front of the roaring fireplace?


Fixed.


----------



## stevexc

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Fixed.



Well... you tried, at least.


----------



## Razor Eater

Did anyone else just put together this:

CarvIN Vader


I feel as slow as molasses in January...going uphill...on crutches


----------



## asher

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Fixed.



nop


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Razor Eater said:


> Did anyone else just put together this:
> 
> CarvIN Vader
> 
> 
> I feel as slow as molasses in January...going uphill...on crutches



rejoice, friend, for I am slower than you it seems!


----------



## Razor Eater

Chokey Chicken said:


> rejoice, friend, for I am slower than you it seems!



Good I'm not alone


----------



## Mangekyo

troyguitar said:


> dunno, it seems pretty silly to complain about a baritone headless 6 when they already offer a standard scale headless 6 with and without trem - 7 on the other hand... seems silly to offer a headless baritone 7 before offering a regular headless 7.
> 
> but the 7 string market as a whole is moving away from standard scales - they would probably sell more 7's at 35" scale than at 25" scale because IT'S SO BRUTAL MANNN!



It doesn't matter if they offer 20+ models with a 25 in. scale length if customers really want a new headless model but it isn't in a scale that's comfortable for them, especially if they already own a few guitars with headstocks already.

The HH2 is a cool guitar, but like I said before, I don't want a guitar that's so tiny it makes me look like this 






Looks like the Vader is going to be pretty tiny too. Hopefully it isn't roughly the same size as the HH... zzz


----------



## Mangekyo

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Hey, following the Hipshot headless system guess + 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do u think?



This is probably 98% accurate. 

Thing is, I feel like the model isn't really creative or artistic. It has the typical headless bridge and the lower half is you know typical. The horns are basic. I honestly feel like someone who took guitar building in college would make something like this for their final project. They couldn't sketch something more sly? Something more... sexy? I don't think they should have made it pointy, ALSO, I think the upper horn width should be to the same height (it's height in this picture since it's on its side) as the two lower curves. This model does look like it has a bigger booty than top. I feel it should be more equal. It'd make the horns look better (more arc)


----------



## bostjan

To each his own, but the lack of love for extended scale shown on a site dedicated to ERG makes Bostjan sad. I'm not at all a tall guy (177 cm, maybe I have big hands, though, for my size) and I love the snappy tone and feel of an extended scale length, especially on a low b. I'll take a baritone and tune it standard any day.

Although, to be fair, I could not care less about the six string version, if they are offering a seven and an eight.

EDIT: Particularly with a headless instrument, when you don't have to worry if the thing will fit in a factory case.


----------



## Mangekyo

Carvin should hire the guy who made this:






and this






Both of which, I'd buy without hesitation, regardless of scale, etc etc.


----------



## canuck brian

Mangekyo said:


> This is probably 98% accurate.
> 
> Thing is, I feel like the model isn't really creative or artistic. It has the typical headless bridge and the lower half is you know typical. The horns are basic. I honestly feel like someone who took guitar building in college would make something like this for their final project. They couldn't sketch something more sly? Something more... sexy? I don't think they should have made it pointy, ALSO, I think the upper horn width should be to the same height (it's height in this picture since it's on its side) as the two lower curves. This model does look like it has a bigger booty than top. I feel it should be more equal. It'd make the horns look better (more arc)



I think they went for something more recognizable to tap into an already existing fan base. Pretty slick move. They already did the whole "more equal" horns/back end thing with the HH and it looks like a toy.






If they're already going with baritone scales, 7 and 8 strings, it's pretty much aimed at metal players. Soft curves usually don't work for metalheads unless it's a Les Paul shaped guitar. Sharp, sculpted looking guitars are the order of the day.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Mangekyo said:


> Carvin should hire the guy who made this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both of which, I'd buy without hesitation, regardless of scale, etc etc.



thanks man, I like my design too, as crappy as it is. I'd love to design guitars if I had any talent other than photoshopping, and I'd work for free as long as I can get a free CT7 =] Coda's carved top headless though takes the cake for best design IMO. Carvin played it safe, which is maybe the smart thing to do. 

It'll look better when we see some real photos (and lots of quilt/flamed/burl tops like they do best)


----------



## Mangekyo

canuck brian said:


> I think they went for something more recognizable to tap into an already existing fan base. Pretty slick move. They already did the whole "more equal" horns/back end thing with the HH and it looks like a toy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they're already going with baritone scales, 7 and 8 strings, it's pretty much aimed at metal players. Soft curves usually don't work for metalheads unless it's a Les Paul shaped guitar. Sharp, sculpted looking guitars are the order of the day.



If they were trying to appeal to metal heads, they should have made it look a little more aggressive/sharp. The bottom section is all round and soft, and then the cutaway is half sharp? It's like a dude who keeps obsessing about doing his girlfriend but whenever she starts getting undressed he runs out of the room. Either keep it conservative (with a creative/good look) and consistent or just go for something that isn't like "oh we just slightly carved a square piece of wood. 

By "equal horns" I don't mean the cutaways should look like a delap (GOD NO). I mean this-





See the purple? I feel like the cutaways should be closer to those lines.


----------



## kevdes93

new update soon!!!! mike jones @bbs i believe said the horn is todays reveal. its make or break time.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Mangekyo said:


> By "equal horns" I don't mean the cutaways should look like a delap (GOD NO). I mean this-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the purple? I feel like the cutaways should be closer to those lines.



I feel like all the Carvin super strats have this problem. Either a weird bulbous ass or tiny horns. They're not ugly, but the proportions are clearly a little off


----------



## celticelk

Mangekyo said:


> By "equal horns" I don't mean the cutaways should look like a delap (GOD NO). I mean this-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See the purple? I feel like the cutaways should be closer to those lines.



Spend two minutes looking at an online guitar retailer's inventory. Nearly every currently available superstrat is going to fail your line test.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Sweet. Curious to see this. Can I say something else here?

We are all such freaking nerds


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Mangekyo said:


> By "equal horns" I don't mean the cutaways should look like a delap (GOD NO). I mean this-



Looks familiar...






And while we're at it...








EDIT: Sorry for the derpy lines. Had to edit it because there was too much gap on the Ibby example.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

canuck brian said:


> I think they went for something more recognizable to tap into an already existing fan base. Pretty slick move. They already did the whole "more equal" horns/back end thing with the HH and it looks like a toy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they're already going with baritone scales, 7 and 8 strings, it's pretty much aimed at metal players. Soft curves usually don't work for metalheads unless it's a Les Paul shaped guitar. Sharp, sculpted looking guitars are the order of the day.



The strap buttons on the bottom make that guitar look like awkward boobies. The 5 year old in me is giggling uncontrollably.


----------



## Overtone

All I see in that one is :|


----------



## xzacx

It's funny how little interest I have in owning this, yet I've following this thread like my life depends on it.


----------



## Deep Blue

I'm not really in the market for this, but if it looks like that last green mock up I'd certainly be tempted. That's like 95 percent of the way to a headless RG, and the RG/JEM/Universe is one of my favorite shapes ever (boring, I know).


----------



## stevexc

xzacx said:


> It's funny how little interest I have in owning this, yet I've following this thread like my life depends on it.



All the delicious, delicious drama... I can talk because I'm oh so clearly above it all


----------



## ZeroS1gnol

xzacx said:


> It's funny how little interest I have in owning this, yet I've following this thread like my life depends on it.



Same here, don't really know why Im coming back to this thread, because in the end, I just think headless guitars look incredibly dorky. Maybe I'm just hoping it's not a headless and Carvin was trolling everyone with the shape.


----------



## cubix




----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

cubix said:


>



This makes me kind of sad.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

EDIT: Son of a bitch that better be a trick.


----------



## MicrobeSS

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm out


----------



## Electric Wizard

It's not on Carvin's facebook page so I'm calling shenanigans.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

What in the F*CK just happened there?...

I get it. The guitar will balance perfectly on a strap. But.....no horn.....at all?


----------



## atticus1088

cubix said:


>








Pretty sure, it's gonna be DC like.


----------



## the.godfather

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> This makes me kind of sad.





Where's that vomit smilie gone again? I'll pass on this and stick to a HH if I want a headless thanks. Regular 6 string or not.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

"Hey, Holdsworth. I see you added more strings and scale length."


----------



## MicrobeSS

looks shopped theres a wierd line in the image by "vader" and that box was big enough for a bigger horn


----------



## asher

Guys, it's not noon PST yet...


----------



## ChrisH

cubix said:


>



This made me lol.

Still another 20 minutes before the real one gets posted.


----------



## cubix

Forgot to add, this is what I think IT MIGHT look like... lol. Sorry if I scared some people, I underestimated my PS abilities  It will definately have a horn though... I think?


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

cubix said:


> Forgot to add, this is what I think IT MIGHT look like... lol. Sorry if I scared some people, I underestimated my PS abilities  It will definately have a horn though... I think?



You soppy bastard you scared the living shit out of me thinking they ballsed it up


----------



## gunshow86de

cubix said:


>


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

ChrisH said:


> This made me lol.
> 
> Still another 20 minutes before the real one gets posted.


----------



## gunshow86de

cubix said:


> Forgot to add, this is what I think IT MIGHT look like... lol. Sorry if I scared some people, I underestimated my PS abilities  It will definately have a horn though... I think?



So why did you change it to say 2 day countdown?


----------



## DaddleCecapitation

I love it.


----------



## Enselmis

Lol'ing right now. The terror was so real.


----------



## celticelk

I'd probably be *more* interested if that was the real thing. =) There's always one, right?


----------



## TemjinStrife

celticelk said:


> I'd probably be *more* interested if that was the real thing. =) There's always one, right?



It could work with a different lower horn


----------



## celticelk

TemjinStrife said:


> It could work with a different lower horn



Chris, you're taking notes for the design team, right?


----------



## troyguitar

Mangekyo said:


> It doesn't matter if they offer 20+ models with a 25 in. scale length if customers really want a new headless model but it isn't in a scale that's comfortable for them, especially if they already own a few guitars with headstocks already.
> 
> The HH2 is a cool guitar, but like I said before, I don't want a guitar that's so tiny it makes me look like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the Vader is going to be pretty tiny too. Hopefully it isn't roughly the same size as the HH... zzz



I do want a tiny guitar, that is the whole damn point of going headless - make the guitar smaller for storing it in tiny places and playing it in tiny spaces.


----------



## stevexc

I like this. Lots.


----------



## MicrobeSS

I need it


----------



## powerofze

groundbreaking


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yup. I approved. All I wanted was a "reissue" of a Steinberger M-series.


----------



## Enselmis

Looks gud. Little confused by the wording in the post. Is tomorrow really the last day?


----------



## TemjinStrife

It's a little odd with the seriously offset horns, the slightly offset waist, and symmetrical back end all clashing slightly, but that's consistent with the rest of Carvin's DC series 

Also think it could use a slightly longer and wider lower horn as a result.

I'll have to see how it looks once people order a few. The HH grew on me after a while.


----------



## MicrobeSS

Now we need a bridge, and a picture of one in a nicer finish


----------



## stevexc

MicrobeSS said:


> Now we need a bridge, and a picture of one in a nicer finish



Nicer? Than Kiesel Racing Green? Man, there ain't nothing better than Kiesel Racing Green. Except for black-bound Kiesel Racing Green.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. I approved. All I wanted was a "reissue" of a Steinberger M-series.


YES SIR. YES SIR.


----------



## AbsentCurtis

Damn... how many of my Agiles am I gonna have to sell to get this.


----------



## decreebass

bevel makes my gynee tingle.

will buy. already was gonna buy. CARVIN CALL ME!!!! TAKE mah munnies!!!


----------



## Schaug

Dunno about you guys but it looks absolutely killer to me!  Can't wait to see how it looks with some flame/burl tops!


----------



## cubix

I don't know, now I got mixed feelings and I think I like "my" version better  It looks OK like this but when You turn the image 90 degree (guitar standing up) the horn just looks a tad too big and out to the left. But we'll see, anyway if it's 27" only I'm not interested lol


----------



## asher

TemjinStrife said:


> It's a little odd with the seriously offset horns, the slightly offset waist, and symmetrical back end all clashing slightly, but that's consistent with the rest of Carvin's DC series
> 
> Also think it could use a slightly longer and wider lower horn as a result.
> 
> I'll have to see how it looks once people order a few. The HH grew on me after a while.



It's maybe got a bit much junk in the trunk, proportionally, but still sweet IMO.


----------



## stevexc

cubix said:


> I don't know, now I got mixed feelings and I think I like "my" version better  It looks OK like this but when You turn the image 90 degree (guitar standing up) the horn just looks a tad too big and out to the left. But we'll see, anyway if it's 27" only I'm not interested lol



Very true. At the same time though it reminds me a lot of a JP7, but more aggressive. Really, though, you'll see the guitar on its side more often than up-and-down.

Hmmm... I'm wondering about the bevels. Would natural body binding on this be treated like on the SCB, for instance? That could look cool.


----------



## MicrobeSS

stevexc said:


> Nicer? Than Kiesel Racing Green? Man, there ain't nothing better than Kiesel Racing Green. Except for black-bound Kiesel Racing Green.



Greens just not my thing. 

Besides I wanna see some fancy tops


----------



## teamSKDM

The bevels plus diamond inlays make it look like a bernie rico junior lol. Cant wait to see this tho, i wonder if its going to have a *headstock* like how strandbergs kinda have, or if its just gonna end like a tube like the hh2 does


----------



## HaloHat

NGD in about 8-10 weeks

Paintless 
7 string
Passive D-26's


----------



## ferret

Oh I love it. But dat 27"  Stopping me.

I was going to order a CS624 in February. If this was 25" or 25.5" I'd do Vader instead.


----------



## MrHelloGuitar

Getting mine in either diamond pearl white metallic or gun metal grey. Very very excited!!!!!!!


----------



## jwade

Gimme a figured walnut/spalted maple top, ebony/dark bullseye maple fingerboard with no inlays, a sort of strandberg-like headstock nub and I'm in. That upper bevel, ho boy! Stoked that the green will make for easy photoshop fiddling.


----------



## SnowfaLL

For those who haven't seen this info yet:



Jeff Kiesel from Facebook said:


> Hey everyone, I will chime in here real quick and give a little info, please don't ask more questions as it gets unveiled tomorrow and I am slammed with all the new stuff for NAMM lol 1. Yes it is called VADER 2. Finish options will be treated like the SCB series 3. Neck Through construction 4. Chambered body is optional And GO lol..... Off I go back into the Custom Shop at Carvin Guitars.



Assuming the CAD doesn't continue to go to shit, I'll probably get a barebones Vader 7 or 8 with chambered body. It's not exactly what I'd want, but for the price on a chambered headless in any color/config you want, its too good of a deal to pass up.


----------



## Deep Blue

Chambering? Cool beans.


----------



## asher

What does SCB coloring/finishing mean?


----------



## porknchili

asher said:


> What does SCB coloring/finishing mean?



Like the single cut bevel Carvins.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

asher said:


> SCB





porknchili said:


> single cut bevel



This is a mind-blowing realization. 

I'm not being sarcastic, I just realized this.


----------



## porknchili

Oh god, if it weren't for my need for a 27 fret 6 string I'd literally just prepare my body and mind fully for the Vader.

7 string, Chambered swamp ash body, flamed maple top, washed denim blue finish w/ natural binding, thinner neck profile, flamed maple treated fretboard, 5P maple/koa neck, jumbo SS frets, kiesel pickups...

If only I'd gotten a 27 fret when I had the chance already...


----------



## bostjan

Just wondering - Have you guys ever played a 27" scale tuned standard? Or are you just assuming it wouldn't work? I have done 27" and even 28.5" with standard tuning and, personally, I think it sounds great. 

This is pretty interesting to me. I must have missed it if you guys mentioned, but what are we speculating the price range will be?


----------



## troyguitar

bostjan said:


> Just wondering - Have you guys ever played a 27" scale tuned standard? Or are you just assuming it wouldn't work? I have done 27" and even 28.5" with standard tuning and, personally, I think it sounds great.



I have owned and played 26.5", 27.0", and 27.5" - all of them are uncomfortable to me. They sound fine, I don't care that much about tone. I prefer 24.75" because it is easier to play.


----------



## Forrest_H

I gotta get me one


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

bostjan said:


> Just wondering - Have you guys ever played a 27" scale tuned standard? Or are you just assuming it wouldn't work? I have done 27" and even 28.5" with standard tuning and, personally, I think it sounds great.
> 
> This is pretty interesting to me. I must have missed it if you guys mentioned, but what are we speculating the price range will be?



Also, doesn't Robb Flynn play in drop C (down half a semitone) on a 27'' guitar? His tone is ....ing massive and he does some pretty complex stuff on it.


----------



## stevexc

bostjan said:


> Just wondering - Have you guys ever played a 27" scale tuned standard? Or are you just assuming it wouldn't work? I have done 27" and even 28.5" with standard tuning and, personally, I think it sounds great.



Nobody's saying it won't work - I'm sure 90% of the people complaining, myself included, have played bari-scale 7s tuned to standard - but that it's not necessarily ideal. I know that I just flat-out don't like the feel of a scale length longer than 25.5". It's just not comfortable for me.

In terms of price... I'd expect it to be around the same as the HH2, around 1100-1200 base and then up from there for the 7 and 8.


----------



## SpaceDock

Does anyone know if you can adjust carvins headless tuning system with allen wrenches?

I hear alot how it is hard to get up to pitch with headless systems or grip the little finger rollers, I thought it would be way easier to use a right angle allen in the peg.


----------



## porknchili

SpaceDock said:


> Does anyone know if you can adjust carvins headless tuning system with allen wrenches?
> 
> I hear alot how it is hard to get up to pitch with headless systems or grip the little finger rollers, I thought it would be way easier to use a right angle allen in the peg.



Since they're most likely using the headless hipshot systems they don't use an allen key, but I think you can use a screwdriver if you want. Regardless, Hipshot makes quality stuff and I'm sure they made it so it's not difficult to tune it with just the knobs.







Also, I have a headless guitar and it's still difficult tuning to pitch exactly with an allen key (thanks a lot Chinese "DIY guitar kit"). I think it just comes down to the quality of the bridge when it concerns the ease of tuning.


----------



## troyguitar

SpaceDock said:


> Does anyone know if you can adjust carvins headless tuning system with allen wrenches?
> 
> I hear alot how it is hard to get up to pitch with headless systems or grip the little finger rollers, I thought it would be way easier to use a right angle allen in the peg.



I don't know but that sounds like a good idea. A t-handle wrench that slides into a slot in the body (and stays in place via magnet at the bottom of the slot) would be pretty brilliant.


----------



## bostjan

stevexc said:


> Nobody's saying it won't work - I'm sure 90% of the people complaining, myself included, have played bari-scale 7s tuned to standard - but that it's not necessarily ideal. I know that I just flat-out don't like the feel of a scale length longer than 25.5". It's just not comfortable for me.
> 
> In terms of price... I'd expect it to be around the same as the HH2, around 1100-1200 base and then up from there for the 7 and 8.



Comfort is one thing, but I've seen a few comments scattered here and there about how tuning to B standard would be stupid on a 27". I disagree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.

Comfort is totally personal preference (tone is too, but I can't see how 27" < 25.5" in terms of tone, sorry - longer scale = tighter tone).

BTW a 27" guitar held at, say, the 9th fret is the same as a 25.5" guitar held at the 8th fret, in terms of where your hands are positioned, so 27" is not at all a drastic change from 25.5", like 30" or whatever.

I'm not sure which 27" scale guitars you guys have tried, either, but it might not be entirely fair to judge every guitar with a certain scale length - don't get me wrong, it's totally fair to say "I prefer 25.5" over 27"," but I've thought before that a certain feature was a deal-breaker for me, only to find out that I formed that impression from playing a piece of junk that had that feature.

So, I'm not refering to you, personally, but, perhaps some people picked up an LTD SC607B that had a wonky neck or something and decided blanketly that they didn't like scale lengths greater than 25.5"

Certainly, the same guitar with a 25.5" scale does not feel and sound like a 27" guitar, but I wouldn't say that the scale length makes it or breaks it in either case.

Anyway, I'm sure you've all heard enough of that.

As far as the price, man, that's not bad. It sure beats $2.5-$3k!


----------



## JSanta

For me, the discussion about scale length is the comfort of playing fairly complex chords. I don't play metal, I'm a jazz guy, and anything above 25.5" is too much for me to play comfortably on. I realize that jazz guitarists are probably not the primary target for this particular instrument, but I'm sure even many fusion and rock guys that would love a headless 7 don't want it in a baritone scale. I hope Carvin sells a ton of these guitars and opens up other options down the road.


----------



## Curt

I recently got turned on to 27" scale guitars, and I am loving them. The clarity of the low notes is amazing. And I tune to Drop A.


----------



## troyguitar

bostjan said:


> Comfort is totally personal preference (tone is too, but I can't see how 27" < 25.5" in terms of tone, sorry - longer scale = tighter tone).



Tighter is not better.


----------



## ASoC

Well, it looks like I should prepare my wallet...

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether I want 6 or 7 strings... hmmmm...


----------



## Santuzzo

oh, damn, this looks AWESOME!!!!!! 
must resist!!!!


----------



## Forrest_H

stevexc said:


> I know that I just flat-out don't like the feel of a scale length longer than 25.5". It's just not comfortable for me..



Okay, this sort of gives me a general idea of why people are like "BUT LONG SCALE LENGTH". I'm ashamed to admit I've been confused as to why it's a deal breaker for some of you guys, but that makes sense.

I still want one.


----------



## asher

porknchili said:


> Like the single cut bevel Carvins.



As in, the bevel can stay natural. I know what the SCB looks like but assumed the Nat bevel was an option.


----------



## celticelk

troyguitar said:


> Tighter is not better.



This. What's tight on the bass end can end up being brittle on the treble. I also prefer the tone of heavier strings - I play 11-62 on my 7s in (essentially) B standard - and a longer scale means having to drop the gauge for playability, which has an additional tonal effect (there's simply less metal moving through the pickup's magnetic field).


----------



## Curt

troyguitar said:


> Tighter is not always better.



Fixed. It can be sometimes.


----------



## Curt

celticelk said:


> This. What's tight on the bass end can end up being brittle on the treble. I also prefer the tone of heavier strings - I play 11-62 on my 7s in (essentially) B standard - and a longer scale means having to drop the gauge for playability, which has an additional tonal effect (there's simply less metal moving through the pickup's magnetic field).



In B standard you'd be fine, yeah. But there would still be the slightest bit greater inharmonicity than with thinner strings at the same tension and tuning. So it's really the decision between more clarity in the low end, or a less full high end. I personally prefer the tighter low end and never have a problem with the high end sounding a bit less full. But again, personal preference, of course.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

stevexc said:


> Nicer? Than Kiesel Racing Green? Man, there ain't nothing better than Kiesel Racing Green. Except for black-bound Kiesel Racing Green.



or Kiesel Racing Orange.......


----------



## stevexc

Forrest_H said:


> Okay, this sort of gives me a general idea of why people are like "BUT LONG SCALE LENGTH". I'm ashamed to admit I've been confused as to why it's a deal breaker for some of you guys, but that makes sense.
> 
> I still want one.



Exactly, haha. I mean, I've heard the whole "but it's only like it's got one extra fret" bs, but that doesn't really help... in order for it to feel how I like it, I'd have to tune down a step and capo it at the 1st fret. Which is something I'd rather not do. I've played a few different 26.5"+ scale guitars and really didn't like any of them.

And then there's the whole "hurr durr order a Holdsworth or an old Steinberger" argument... if I had wanted a Holdsworth, I'd have ordered one. Unfortunately, it doesn't do it for me aesthetically, and there's a few other niggling points about it I don't like (neck joint being the big one). And I would rather have my choice of specs from Carvin than whatever I hope to find used for Steinbergers.

I can't state enough, I 100% think it's a good idea for Carvin to have a 6-string bari. I also think that the only 6-string bari they offer being headless might be a little too niche, so I definitely think there will be a 25" (or 25.5") version of this, and a 27" more traditional guitar (DC6X or something).

Anyways, I think I've hit the point where this is technically rambling.


----------



## troyguitar

In truth I should just buy a damn 6 string holdsworth and call it a day, I almost never use my 7th strings and even more rarely use them below the 5th fret. In the 60 minute album I have written, I use the 7th string on one 5 minute track and in one riff on a second track 

I just keep playing them thinking that one day I might want to use that extra range, plus after this many years on a 7 I'm more comfortable with the "extra" string. 6's feel weird.

That's probably why I prefer the tone of the shorter scale, I don't ride low notes - in fact I rarely play them at all.


----------



## 7stg

troyguitar said:


> Tighter is not better.



It depends on what you're after. Longer scales give something that can only come from a longer scale length.

Longer scales reduce inharmonicity which is where the overtone frequencies of the note played are out of tune with the fundamental. Higher inharmonicity results in bass notes that have a muddy, buzzy, sound whose pitch is more difficult to discern. Shorter scale lengths and strings that are stiffer and or thicker exhibit higher inharmonicity.

Also For a low F#1, a 30 inch scale will have 32% better harmonic content and 15% more tension than 28 inch scale guitar. 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html

So longer scales give clarity, note definition, greater harmonic content. To some this is desirable others not so much. Also, some have small hands which makes longer scales more difficult to play and for others the longer scales are fine.

It would be nice if they offered several scale length options.


----------



## Forrest_H

stevexc said:


> Exactly, haha. I mean, I've heard the whole "but it's only like it's got one extra fret" bs, but that doesn't really help... in order for it to feel how I like it, I'd have to tune down a step and capo it at the 1st fret. Which is something I'd rather not do. I've played a few different 26.5"+ scale guitars and really didn't like any of them.
> 
> And then there's the whole "hurr durr order a Holdsworth or an old Steinberger" argument... if I had wanted a Holdsworth, I'd have ordered one. Unfortunately, it doesn't do it for me aesthetically, and there's a few other niggling points about it I don't like (neck joint being the big one). And I would rather have my choice of specs from Carvin than whatever I hope to find used for Steinbergers.
> 
> Anyways, I think I've hit the point where this is technically rambling.



And to add to that rambling, I can totally agree. My Agile Septor (sort of a bad example) is 27", and even though I've modded it a bit, I still prefer my bone stock PRS SE 7 (25") because of how comfy it is.

This aside, I'm eager to get any sort of Carvin, and a headless 7 would only sweeten said deal. Kind of a weird compromise, but 27" isn't super uncomfortable to me, just different. And if I did get another 7, it wouldn't be in Standard B anyways, it'd be a lower tuning.

While it does sort of suck that pretty much anyone's option for a headless guitar you don't need to slaughter a dragon and wait an eternity to get is a used Steinberger or this specifically scaled Carvin (or a Holdsworth), I think I'll dig it anyways.

/end ramble


----------



## Jake

I'm getting one. That settles it. 6 or 7 though....this is tough.


----------



## straightshreddd

Jake said:


> I'm getting one. That settles it. 6 or 7 though....this is tough.



I hear you. I absolutely love my DC7X and I don't really feel it's necessary to buy another 7, but it'd be pretty goddamn awesome to get a chambered, headless 7. Especially since I can fully trust Carvin's quality. But, on the other hand, I've been dying for a 6 as well as a headless, so that sounds like the more reasonable approach. Shit, I don't even know how Im gonna pay for either, but one of them is gonna happen.


----------



## Jake

straightshreddd said:


> I hear you. I absolutely love my DC7X and I don't really feel it's necessary to buy another 7, but it'd be pretty goddamn awesome to get a chambered, headless 7. Especially since I can fully trust Carvin's quality. But, on the other hand, I've been dying for a 6 as well as a headless, so that sounds like the more reasonable approach. Shit, I don't even know how Im gonna pay for either, but one of them is gonna happen.


I'll probably get a 6 honestly. And it'll probably be Kiesel Racing Green.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

stevexc said:


> And then there's the whole "hurr durr order a Holdsworth or an old Steinberger" argument...



Hey! I never said "hurr durr!" Stop putting words in my mouth!


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone feeling an Onion headline forming here? 

_ERG guitarists beg local company to start making ERG guitars. Local company complies. ERG guitarists go back to playing 6 string guitars._


----------



## celticelk

7stg said:


> It depends on what you're after. Longer scales give something that can only come from a longer scale length.
> 
> Longer scales reduce inharmonicity which is where the overtone frequencies of the note played are out of tune with the fundamental. Higher inharmonicity results in bass notes that have a muddy, buzzy, sound whose pitch is more difficult to discern. Shorter scale lengths and strings that are stiffer and or thicker exhibit higher inharmonicity.
> 
> Also For a low F#1, a 30 inch scale will have 32% better harmonic content and 15% more tension than 28 inch scale guitar.
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html
> 
> So longer scales give clarity, note definition, greater harmonic content. To some this is desirable others not so much. Also, some have small hands which makes longer scales more difficult to play and for others the longer scales are fine.
> 
> It would be nice if they offered several scale length options.



Yes, it would. I keep wondering if they will, since Chris has been notably silent throughout this whole debate. I'm honestly not sure if he's stopped laughing anytime in the last few days. 

A brief digression: I wonder if the concerns over inharmonicity are the result of the popularity of the djent sound, which boosts the extreme treble end to highlight the string attack and which would tend to exaggerate the out-of-tune upper harmonics of thicker bass strings. Other genres seem not to worry about this so much - I've never seen the word "inharmonicity" mentioned over at ilovedoom, and a bunch of those guys are tuning way down on relatively short scales. *shrug*


----------



## Hollowway

celticelk said:


> A brief digression: I wonder if the concerns over inharmonicity are the result of the popularity of the djent sound, which boosts the extreme treble end to highlight the string attack and which would tend to exaggerate the out-of-tune upper harmonics of thicker bass strings. Other genres seem not to worry about this so much - I've never seen the word "inharmonicity" mentioned over at ilovedoom, and a bunch of those guys are tuning way down on relatively short scales. *shrug*



I think it has more to do with us being gear head nerds, too. The fact is we push the envelope on playing speed, amount of notes played, crispness of sound, etc. Any group that gets into the esoteric shit we do is going to care about stuff that may not even be audible. Which is also why I love everyone on here!


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Hollowway said:


> Anyone feeling an Onion headline forming here?
> 
> _ERG guitarists beg local company to start making ERG guitars. Local company complies. ERG guitarists go back to playing 6 string guitars._




SSO, 2012: "BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW, THERE ARE NO 27" CARVINS!"

SSO, 2015: "BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW, THE NEW CARVIN IS 27"!"


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

celticelk said:


> This. What's tight on the bass end can end up being brittle on the treble. I also prefer the tone of heavier strings - I play 11-62 on my 7s in (essentially) B standard - and a longer scale means having to drop the gauge for playability, which has an additional tonal effect (there's simply less metal moving through the pickup's magnetic field).



NOW I see why you get antsy when we get pissed about sub-25.5'' 7-strings.


----------



## leonardo7

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> or Kiesel Racing Orange.......



I guess now we know what color yours is?


----------



## 7stg

celticelk said:


> A brief digression: I wonder if the concerns over inharmonicity are the result of the popularity of the djent sound, which boosts the extreme treble end to highlight the string attack and which would tend to exaggerate the out-of-tune upper harmonics of thicker bass strings. Other genres seem not to worry about this so much - I've never seen the word "inharmonicity" mentioned over at ilovedoom, and a bunch of those guys are tuning way down on relatively short scales. *shrug*



Not for me, I don't djent, I know for some that's like    I just like a clear articulate tone with well defined notes. When I went looking for an 8 string I wasn't getting what I was looking for from what I was coming across, the low end was more muddy, dull, undefined than I wanted. then I started trying to find out why and came across the term inharmonicity which explained what I was experiencing. I have a 29.4 and a 30 inch scaled guitar and that is really all I ever play any more. I like the high end too, I'm not getting a tone that is overly shrill. 

The first thing I go into is an Creation Audio Labs MW1 and it has adjustable impedance which I usually leave maxed, but it can warm up the sound quite a bit. Impedance loads or unloads passive pickups affecting their frequency response. High impedance equals brighter tone and low impedance warmer tone.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> NOW I see why you get antsy when we get pissed about sub-25.5'' 7-strings.



The real question is, how does he feel about superstrats? I don't think I've seen him mention that anywhere.


----------



## Kleshas

Omfg so I'm sure Carvin will hate me for posting this but I was doing some snooping on a Mike's (Carvin's service and photo guy) google cloud where he stores a lot of photos taken for their website and forum and discovered this.

Oh god pls no


----------



## Electric Wizard

^Link or GTFO.


----------



## MoshJosh

Gotta be trolling. . . Please be trolling


----------



## Jake

I will shit my pants in disappointment and my wallet will lock itself back tight if that's what ends up happening with this....please for the love of god be trolling


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

God if that's real, then I think we and Carvin BBS were the victims of the greatest troll in guitar hype history.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

It's pretty obviously a troll attempt, guys. Did you actually look at the image?


----------



## Samark

Jeff Kiesel said that there is a Vader 2. So perhaps they are offering a Vader with a hipshot and headstock, and a Vader 2 headless


----------



## 7stg

Kleshas said:


> Omfg so I'm sure Carvin will hate me for posting this but I was doing some snooping on a Mike's (Carvin's service and photo guy) google cloud where he stores a lot of photos taken for their website and forum and discovered this.


Just change the headstock and it's good by me. I want a 7 with a trem and that may affect which way I go if it could be built with a trim like that all the better.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

[SC][/SC]


Electric Wizard said:


> ^Link or GTFO.



Obvious fake. It's missing the model name by the neck joint. Somebody be trollin'.


----------



## Santuzzo

that pic looks legit to me OR somebody has got some great photo-shop chops.

But if that's what the guitar's gonna be, I'm safe and will stay away...phew!


----------



## icos211

Kleshas said:


> Omfg so I'm sure Carvin will hate me for posting this but I was doing some snooping on a Mike's (Carvin's service and photo guy) google cloud where he stores a lot of photos taken for their website and forum and discovered this.
> 
> Oh god pls no



I would laugh my ASS off if this is it.

Edit: Comparing the two, there was a bit of extra space that had to be added to the picture to fit the whole headstock in. Everything was just a little bit different. I don't think it will be this. Even if it has been a troll this whole time, it would have resulted in some great market research. In any case, I still think the Vader we think we are getting is butt ugly. If we could get one that is literally just a DC or SCB with the head whacked off and a cut out on the bottom, that would be the only Carvin headless I would buy. The Vader and Holdsworth are both just too small.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Well, to be fair, Chris did say that everything we thought we knew about the Vader was wrong, and the photo of the body blank posted waaaaaaaay earlier did look more like it had holes that looked more like standard hipshot bridge than headless hardware. Headless hardware would require a pocket routed into the ass end of the body, wouldn't it? That didn't have it.

EDIT: Missing the Kiesel logo under the upper horn, so yeah, probably trolling. NEVER KNOW THO.

I do like the idea of two different Vaders, one headstock, one headless


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Again, the "leaked" image lacks the kiesel mark that is between the upper horn and fretboard. It's not legit. You can get your headless boners back. (That sounds pretty bad when you say it out loud.)


----------



## celticelk

Samark said:


> Jeff Kiesel said that there is a Vader 2. So perhaps they are offering a Vader with a hipshot and headstock, and a Vader 2 headless



No he didn't. He was making three points in his Facebook post, and numbered them, and was sloppy about punctuation (or the quote reproduced here didn't capture the line break formatting).


----------



## ferret

Santuzzo said:


> that pic looks legit to me OR somebody has got some great photo-shop chops.
> 
> But if that's what the guitar's gonna be, I'm safe and will stay away...phew!



Huh? Strings don't line up perfectly and have different lighting/reflections.


----------



## Mike Jones

-


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

.


----------



## celticelk

Grand Moff Tim said:


> The real question is, how does he feel about superstrats? I don't think I've seen him mention that anywhere.



Expect my manifesto in your mailbox shortly.


----------



## celticelk

icos211 said:


> In any case, I still think the Vader we think we are getting is butt ugly. If we could get one that is literally just a DC or SCB with the head whacked off and a cut out on the bottom, that would be the only Carvin headless I would buy. The Vader and Holdsworth are both just too small.



We've got more than enough image at this point for someone to overlay a DC7X and illustrate any differences in the size.


----------



## will_shred

Kleshas said:


> Omfg so I'm sure Carvin will hate me for posting this but I was doing some snooping on a Mike's (Carvin's service and photo guy) google cloud where he stores a lot of photos taken for their website and forum and discovered this.
> 
> Oh god pls no


----------



## HaloHat

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> or Kiesel Racing Orange.......



Based on your other guitars I'd be very surprised if your 8 string Vader is KRO


----------



## ElysianGuitars

So what if the Kiesel logo was photoshopped onto the body to mess with people? There does seem to be some odd compression artifacting around it...


----------



## stevexc

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Hey! I never said "hurr durr!" Stop putting words in my mouth!



Baby, baby, you got me wrong, I'm talkin' 'bout the OTHER girls! You know I'd never say nothin' bad 'boutchu!



Mike Jones said:


> -





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> .



I feel like I missed something here.


----------



## Jlang

ElysianGuitars said:


> So what if the Kiesel logo was photoshopped onto the body to mess with people? There does seem to be some odd compression artifacting around it...



This.

Carvin trolled everyone HARD


----------



## SpaceDock

Stealing from peoples cloud isn't cool but not like we won't know after tomorrow's reveal anyways.

P.S. hate that pic.hopefully it's better than that


----------



## Insinfier

stevexc said:


> I feel like I missed something here.



You didn't. But having it deleted/edited/modified makes it much weirder and less funny.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I tried to make an overlaid size comparison pic between the Vader and a DC7X, but I'm on my work computer with the OS set to Korean and I only have MS Paint and Powerpoint (both also in Korean) to work with, so rather than embarrass myself with the results, I'll wait for more qualified people to give it a go .


----------



## HaloHat

The Vader with a headstock would make no sense at all btw. I find it impossible that Jeff would have posted the 8 string headstock cut off photo on his FB page not long ago. Nor would Carvin fvck with us to this degree. Carvin has a sense of humor but they are not retards.

Anyone call Hipshot to see if they could get their Vader headless bridge in a certain finish. tee hee. 

I need it in anodized red for my build...


----------



## Jake

HaloHat said:


> The Vader with a headstock would make no sense at all btw. I find it impossible that Jeff would have posted the 8 string headstock cut off photo on his FB page not long ago. Nor would Carvin fvck with us to this degree. Carvin has a sense of humor but they are not retards.
> 
> Anyone call Hipshot to see if they could get their Vader headless bridge in a certain finish. tee hee.


More or less my thoughts on this. Don't make me give my money to ESP or PRS, Carvin....


----------



## cardinal

hahaha that would be epic trolling if that "leaked" picture is actually accurate.


----------



## Insinfier

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I tried to make an overlaid size comparison pic between the Vader and a DC7X, but I'm on my work computer with the OS set to Korean and I only have MS Paint and Powerpoint (both also in Korean) to work with, so rather than embarrass myself with the results, I'll wait for more qualified people to give it a go .



QUALIFIED? 







NOT WHAT YOU ASKED FOR

IDK WAT AM DOING


----------



## Chokey Chicken

They're not even the same color. I love how worked up people are getting. Tomorrow we'll know for sure though.


----------



## Overtone

SpaceDock said:


> Stealing from peoples cloud isn't cool


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Chokey Chicken said:


> They're not even the same color. I love how worked up people are getting. Tomorrow we'll know for sure though.



They have the exact same piece of fretboard wood...


----------



## HaloHat

Zeno said:


> Well, to be fair, Chris did say that everything we thought we knew about the Vader was wrong...



That was said in reference to the "its a bolt neck, it's a set neck" comments and a barely worked body blank photo.

fwiw the photo posted here is not how Mike Jones names his files either, not that the poster of the pic couldn't change it but still.


----------



## jwade

I wish I wasn't at work. I could pop that open in a few programs and shoot it down. 

The bridge and the strings around the pickups look super wonky (disclaimer: I'm on my phone and can't zoom in very far), the shadows look strange, and the headstock looks like someone just took the normal DC7 headstock and plopped black ovals down over the tip to make it fit.


----------



## Insinfier

Chokey Chicken said:


> They're not even the same color. I love how worked up people are getting. Tomorrow we'll know for sure though.



Yo. MSPaint is fun. You can accidentally create alien circuit boards that would _most certainly_ work!






Not having any luck with color replacement.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

*IF* this POS (to put it mildly) is it, then simply put Carvin wins the 1st prize for the ugliest guitar of 2015.

*IF* indeed Kiesel brand name was photoshopped on earlier images, then I'm lost for words. Since when trolling is a viable marketing tool? 

I still believe the design doesn't make any freakin' sense unless it's a headless guitar. *IF* I'm wrong, God be with us all


----------



## Promit

Come on people - wait for Carvin to post the image, instead of falling for the trollshops over and over.


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone else feeling a white washed flamed maple top, BEM, and a little of this action? Mmm mmm good!


----------



## ChrisH

Promit said:


> Come on people - wait for Carvin to post the image, instead of falling for the trollshops over and over.



^^^ This

Because guess who convinced one of his customers to post a "leaked" photo on here?


----------



## stevexc

I dunno, ChrisH, this evidence is pretty damning...







Or completely inconclusive I really have no idea I just did it because Tim said to.


----------



## Jake

Hollowway that's pretty much what I was planning on going with. Unless of course I decide to make it blue....


----------



## HaloHat

That and I doubt Carvin would forget to put a nut on the guitar... just sayin'

so fake. good fake. but fake.


----------



## Insinfier

I think this is a nut. I'm not sure. More research and funding needed.


----------



## jwade

Ninja'd


----------



## kevdes93

If this isnt a headless I will be completely devastated and truly heartbroken.


----------



## gunshow86de

Look around the bridge on the "leaked" photo. The colors are clearly not blended properly. You can see a blurb in a lighter shade of green.


----------



## Nlelith

stevexc said:


>


Horny.


----------



## troyguitar

This thread is awesome.


----------



## HaloHat

Hollowway said:


> Anyone else feeling a white washed flames maple top, BEM, and a little of this action? Mmm mmm good!



Nice, but I'm feeling more like 
Wenge Top
Purple Heart Board - No Inlays
Bloodwood Neck
Antique Ash Red Swamp Ash Body

I love Carvin's "Customer Provided Wood" option and used it on two DC7X's so far. Carvin rawks


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

I still dream of a better tomorrow


----------



## troyguitar

HaloHat said:


> I love Carvin's "Customer Provided Wood" option and used it on two DC7X's so far. Carvin rawks



Whoa, when did that start? That is awesome.


----------



## HaloHat

Insinfier said:


> I think this is a nut. I'm not sure. More research and funding needed.



Thank you 

Your blown up pic shows it is fake best of all so far. Person needed to move the headstock down just a tad.


----------



## ChrisH

Noon pacific time tomorrow. 

Thanks for all the lols the past few hours haha


----------



## HaloHat

troyguitar said:


> Whoa, when did that start? That is awesome.



They have been doing it a while now. You have to clear it on a order by order basis with your salesperson and understand the conditions and charges associated, which Carvin is very clear about. It "op50" the guitar so no returns [as if ha].

ChrisH here at the forum can help you I'm sure. My salesperson on the two DC7X builds, both op50 heavy, was Steve Schisler [[email protected]] Great guy to work with and everything went smooth both times.

btw, just 'cause you don't see it on Carvin's massive option list does not mean they won't do it. Just ask them and as the saying goes over at the Carvin bbs, have your credit card in hand when your asking...


----------



## 7stg

How about a little reshaping. Open the lower horn a bit for better access, shift the arc forward a bit for longer scale comfort, shade in a good forearm cutout cause there does not appear to be one, and move the bridge pickup a bit closer to the bridge. I'm not the best at gimp but you get the idea. Headless is good to, I just started with the other one and wanted to see it with the different headstock.


----------



## Forkface

2015 troll champion 

i tip my fedora to you good sir.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

My money says that it's a 25.5-28" 7 string V holdsworth with strandberg hardware and an endureneck.


----------



## decreebass

I will punch myself in the dick if this isn't headless. 

I'm heartened though because after sending my 'dream specs' sheet to the boys at Carvin, they lol'd at me because I accidentally included Carvin's locking tuners (Chris - I genuinely accidentally added that; I wish I could've been witty enough to .... with y'all like that lol)

I just wish they would take my money. It's sitting here getting cold. The dogs are begging... (I'm looking at you, EBMM JP15...)


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Pretty half-assed job, I know, but I'm pretty terrible at this sort of thing.

It's an overlaid size comparison between the Vader and a DC7X, to give an approximate idea of how big the thing's going to be.


----------



## InfestedRabite

not sure if the people taking the headstock image seriously are next-level trolling or next-level gullible


----------



## celticelk

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Pretty half-assed job, I know, but I'm pretty terrible at this sort of thing.
> 
> It's an overlaid size comparison between the Vader and a DC7X, to give an approximate idea of how big the thing's going to be.



Thanks! That doesn't look like an epic small body fail to me.


----------



## HighGain510

The kids falling for the troll bait is classic...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

celticelk said:


> Thanks! That doesn't look like an epic small body fail to me.



 My complaint with the HH is that it was way too tiny for my tastes, but this is a lot better. More traditional for my tastes.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Man, carvin really needs to go ahead and slap a headstock on it, that way people can make good on their threats of pooping their pants in rage, and punching themselves in the nads.


----------



## Jake

pls no Carvin dont make me soil my undies 









 classic trollshops though, 5/10 good attempt sir


----------



## asher

Chokey Chicken said:


> Man, carvin really needs to go ahead and slap a headstock on it, that way people can make good on their threats of pooping their pants in rage, and punching themselves in the nads.



I mean, that was just a direct challenge to Carvin, wasn't it?

YOU'VE GOT A JOB TO DO, LADS!


----------



## Insinfier

Was really hoping to wake up to more dumb, fake pictures. Disappointed in you, SSO.


----------



## Curt

celticelk said:


> Yes, it would. I keep wondering if they will, since Chris has been notably silent throughout this whole debate. I'm honestly not sure if he's stopped laughing anytime in the last few days.
> 
> A brief digression: I wonder if the concerns over inharmonicity are the result of the popularity of the djent sound, which boosts the extreme treble end to highlight the string attack and which would tend to exaggerate the out-of-tune upper harmonics of thicker bass strings. Other genres seem not to worry about this so much - I've never seen the word "inharmonicity" mentioned over at ilovedoom, and a bunch of those guys are tuning way down on relatively short scales. *shrug*



To be honest, I don't think it's exactly just the djent crowd, but it's definitely not something the doom crowd worries about.


----------



## cardinal

Top horn actually looks pretty good, I think. Probably should redo all of the 700, 7x, etc top horns to be like that. Those guitars would become about x1000 more attractive.


----------



## decreebass

Chokey Chicken said:


> Man, carvin really needs to go ahead and slap a headstock on it, that way people can make good on their threats of pooping their pants in rage, and punching themselves in the nads.



Well, actually I said "dick" which does not produce gametes and therefore is technically not a 'nad,'  but I was only playing. It's obviously a headless. I'm just so excited that I keep coming back to this thread to check out all the buzz.

Bravo, Carvin, on your marketing for this one


----------



## lewstherin006

The guitar is 100% headless. ON jeff's latest instagram post, you can see the bridge.

Instagram


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It's a Hipshot system. 

celticelk redeemed.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Alright, it's headless, everybody go home, we've won.


----------



## celticelk

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's a Hipshot system.
> 
> celticelk redeemed.



I'm probably beyond redemption, but thanks anyway. 

Based on that Instagram photo, the next flashpoint of criticism will probably be the disappearing top on the forearm cut....


----------



## stevexc

lewstherin006 said:


> The guitar is 100% headless. ON jeff's latest instagram post, you can see the bridge.
> 
> Instagram



Phew, I was worried it would only be 95% headless.

Hmmm... I dunno how I feel about the forearm bevel. The top wood cutting off like that looks a little... harsh, I guess? Poor photo to make a good judgement from, though. Dig the finish.


----------



## Santuzzo

oh boy, this is gonna be tough to resist


----------



## porknchili

I'm holding myself back from screaming in my physics lecture right now. The doubts are finally laid to rest.


----------



## ghostred7

For those that like headless guitars....I hope this turns out to be exactly what you want it to be. I've never liked headless guitars personally...but there's obviously a fanbase for it and hopefully Carvin/Kiesel is pleasing that base.


----------



## Andromalia

lewstherin006 said:


> The guitar is 100% headless. ON jeff's latest instagram post, you can see the bridge.
> 
> Instagram



It's just Reb Beach becoming a new endorsee, stop dreaming.


----------



## brutalwizard




----------



## Blood Tempest

celticelk said:


> I'm probably beyond redemption, but thanks anyway.
> 
> Based on that Instagram photo, the next flashpoint of criticism will probably be the disappearing top on the forearm cut....



Is it bad that I think that looks good?


----------



## xwmucradiox

Why does Carvin even show at NAMM if they don't have a dealer network? I understand the artist exposure angle but it seems like they could put all those resources into direct meetings with artists they are courting instead of showing a bunch of stuff to MI folks who wont be able to become dealers.


----------



## celticelk

Blood Tempest said:


> Is it bad that I think that looks good?



Not at all, but based on past experience I think it's likely to be a contentious point. You just keep on with your bad self.


----------



## brutalwizard

xwmucradiox said:


> Why does Carvin even show at NAMM if they don't have a dealer network? I understand the artist exposure angle but it seems like they could put all those resources into direct meetings with artists they are courting instead of showing a bunch of stuff to MI folks who wont be able to become dealers.



I imagine to show off there cool instruments in a gathering of there peers. The Exposure They get is probably 100% worth the money they spend. Just because they sell direct to consumers doesn't mean they wont benefit attending (as a seller) one of the biggest north american guitar expos.


----------



## 7stg

xwmucradiox said:


> Why does Carvin even show at NAMM if they don't have a dealer network? I understand the artist exposure angle but it seems like they could put all those resources into direct meetings with artists they are courting instead of showing a bunch of stuff to MI folks who wont be able to become dealers.



The costs are not that bad- $30.75 per-square-foot fee and exhibitors requiring no special handing receive a 1,000-pound material handling allowance per 100 sq. ft, and there is a lot of exposure besides dealers.

https://www.namm.org/thenammshow/2015/exhibitors


----------



## Mangekyo

troyguitar said:


> I do want a tiny guitar, that is the whole damn point of going headless - make the guitar smaller for storing it in tiny places and playing it in tiny spaces.



Well the strandbergs are _smaller_ but they look like full body guitars. Steinberger's GMs are headless but they aren't a damn ukulele. 


Well if that's how tops are going to look I don't think I'm going to be getting any fancy tops! Which helps me make my decision easier (and saves me money).

Didn't realize how "sharp" that top horn was on that one side. I like the upper horn reveal but didn't think it'd be that carved, especially on that side (which I'm glad they chose to bevel that top part of it instead of the inside of the horn).

My opinion of this guitar has raised. Still, I think I'd prefer a CT like CODA's variant.... This is still cool. Cant' wait to see more pictures.


----------



## Blood Tempest

celticelk said:


> Not at all, but based on past experience I think it's likely to be a contentious point. You just keep on with your bad self.



Must be us short/standard scale fans and our twisted brains


----------



## Mangekyo

Honestly, nothing much really excites me at NAMM as much as carvin. The big companies that produce similar models each year are usually nothing too surprising. You don't get many options.

I can't help to feel that 2016 and 2017 will have more/most guitar companies offering headless models. Probably closer to 2017. Everybody is jumping on the "lets make a seven string with a killswitch" bandwagon at last year's namm.


----------



## teamSKDM

brutalwizard said:


>




I wish they would have continued the beveling instead of leaving the forearm area at a soft bend, but man that is hot


----------



## Mangekyo

teamSKDM said:


> I wish they would have continued the beveling instead of leaving the forearm area at a soft bend, but man that is hot



Understandable, but in terms of comfort I think we'll prefer this because or arm is going to cover it, so in terms of looks it won't be as noticeable anyway, yet we'll always feel it because most people anchor their arm anyway.

Anybody notice that the pick ups have seven poles ? It's a seven string (well you could have counted the strings to get the same conclusion).

I hope the hipshot bridges will come in more than black. Silver, here I come.


----------



## Insinfier

Hipshot Headless System is available in gold, black and chrome in the Hipshot store. You can expect Carvin to have all of them.

However...






Gold has black saddles.


----------



## Mangekyo

Do they have chrome saddles? If the saddles are black.... I'd probably just go with black hardware :/ the "two tone" effect works good on some guitars. I could see it going well with gunmetal gray but...

I think I'm going white for this one.


----------



## Blood Tempest

I'm gonna order one with two opt 50s:

1. It's gonna be standard scale length, maybe Gibson length.
2. It's gonna have a headstock.

/trolling


----------



## Insinfier




----------



## Dominoes282

brutalwizard said:


>



*GASP*. That's amazing....

A bit more than an hour before the reveal!


----------



## TemjinStrife

The sides on that headless bridge have always looked uncomfortable to me. Why are they so unnecessarily high?


----------



## HurrDurr

stevexc said:


> And then there's the whole "hurr durr order a Holdsworth or an old Steinberger" argument...





Grand Moff Tim said:


> Hey! I never said "hurr durr!" Stop putting words in my mouth!



Alright, so what should the specs be then?


----------



## stevexc

HurrDurr said:


> Alright, so what should the specs be then?



Anything you want so long as you put my address in the "Shipping" field


----------



## cardinal

TemjinStrife said:


> The sides on that headless bridge have always looked uncomfortable to me. Why are they so unnecessarily high?



While that wouldn't bother me, my first thought seeing that bridge was how could SSO love that bridge while going completely nuts over the edges of the original Ibanez Gibraltar bridge.


----------



## GiveUpGuitar

cardinal said:


> While that wouldn't bother me, my first thought seeing that bridge was how could SSO love that bridge while going completely nuts over the edges of the original Ibanez Gibraltar bridge.



These appear rounded. The original Gibraltar's edges came to a point. Definitely different.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

Rounded or not. Having the sides higher than the saddles is uncomfortable.


----------



## GiveUpGuitar

TheRileyOBrien said:


> Rounded or not. Having the sides higher than the saddles is uncomfortable.



Yeah but look closely. Clearly the saddles aren't adjusted to appropriate heights. All of the screws are off balanced. I'm sure they're a lot closer to the height of the sides than they look.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

GiveUpGuitar said:


> Yeah but look closely. Clearly the saddles aren't adjusted to appropriate heights. All of the screws are off balanced. I'm sure they're a lot closer to the height of the sides than they look.



???






Sure they could recess it into the body a bit and use longer screws for height but why not just take those stupid sides off? or at least make them like the standard hipshot bridge..


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

EDIT: Well shit.


----------



## GiveUpGuitar

Maybe I negated that picture  ^


But the single ones above are definitely all out of whack


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

GiveUpGuitar said:


> Maybe I negated that picture  ^
> 
> 
> But the single ones above are definitely all out of whack



I agree. To be honest the pictures above make it look like you could get the saddles to a good height easily...the pic of it installed looks really uncomfortable.


----------



## Electric Wizard




----------



## stevexc

OH SHIT IT'S HEADLESS

EDIT: DAMN YOU ELECTRIC WIZARD


----------



## JSanta

Carvin.com - Guitars, Amplifiers & Pro Audio


----------



## lurgar

Carvin.com - Guitars, Amplifiers & Pro Audio

Here's the Carvin page about them.

Edit: lol, everybody rushing to post first.


----------



## Enselmis

Aaaaaaand no 25. I'm out. Oh well


----------



## Cbutler

edit:motherfvck


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

GASP, never expected that.


----------



## thrsher

chambered body option, world explodes


----------



## tian

*grumblegrumble* would much prefer a 25" or 25.5" scale option but I may still bite on a seven at some point. Very tempting...


----------



## Dominoes282

Oh yeah and zero fret


----------



## fortisursus

Dammit I want to be bitter about the scale length, but I still want it...


----------



## Mike Jones

tian said:


> ...




^ Lol... you beat me to the punch!


----------



## Santuzzo

looks awesome.
didn't know it's a neck-through, though. I'm out


----------



## gunshow86de

I want it, now please.


----------



## mnemonic

Not really a pretty bridge, but I like the guitar!



JSanta said:


> Carvin.com - Guitars, Amplifiers & Pro Audio



yeah, Carvin if you could go ahead and stop directing international traffic back to the homepage no matter what link I click, that would be great.

For other people not in the US who can't see the page;


----------



## stevexc

Santuzzo said:


> looks awesome.
> didn't know it's a neck-through, though. I'm out



Wait, _neck-through_ is your make or break? Huh, that's unexpected, haha.

The fact that I don't have $2000 (yeah I'm included conversion/shipping/customs/etc along with my estimate) makes picking a side of the fence a lot easier for me. I mean, I really don't like 27", but there's a part of me whispering "try it... you might like it... you've only played bari-scale 7s, not 6s..."


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

ovlott said:


> I hope they dont spend the first 3 days showing the space beneath and on top of the neck lol



And that's exactly what they did.


----------



## Guitarrags

Too bad no bolt on option


----------



## celticelk

stevexc said:


> Wait, _neck-through_ is your make or break? Huh, that's unexpected, haha.



It's always interesting to me to see where players draw their hard-and-fast "nope" boundaries.

I hadn't realized that the guitar top was visible *through* the bridge. That and the non-drop-top would certainly constrain my choices if I were speccing one of these.


----------



## HurrDurr

fortisursus said:


> Dammit I want to be bitter about the scale length, but I still want it...



Same


----------



## brutalwizard

Carvin gas Is too much right now hahhaa. 


Whats the speculation on cost guys?


----------



## Khoi

eh, it doesn't do much for me to be honest

I'll definitely check it out at NAMM though, maybe in-person it'll be awesome


----------



## stevexc

I take it the orange 8 is FrancescoFiligoi's? I really dig that color combo, tbh. Wish there was a better shot!


----------



## Santuzzo

stevexc said:


> Wait, _neck-through_ is your make or break? Huh, that's unexpected, haha.



 Yes, as weird as it may sound, that and (maybe even more so) the finished/painted neck.


----------



## Insinfier

IM INTO THIS


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

As someone who's been wanting a baritone 6-string from Carvin...


----------



## stevexc

Santuzzo said:


> Yes, as weird as it may sound, that and (maybe even more so) the finished/painted neck.



Oh, it's no less valid than my scale-length issues, don't get me wrong, haha, just not one I was expecting - usually it's the opposite complaint, is all!

On the bright side, I don't see why this neck would be treated any differently than any other Carvin neck... you've typically got the option for unfinished, IIRC.


----------



## porknchili

I'm curious as to how many people are going to order the Vader on the first day it's available.


----------



## gunshow86de

Santuzzo said:


> Yes, as weird as it may sound, that and (maybe even more so) the finished/painted neck.



You have the option to get tongue-oil or satin finish on the back of all Carvin necks.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Two things...

1) I'm surprised to see absolutely no mention of Carvin in that picture. 
2) I wonder if DiMarzio is going to be pissy about them using cream bobbins.


----------



## porknchili

Lol, I just noticed that Carvin is using the Jcustom headpieces on the 6 string models instead of the Hipshot version.


----------



## HurrDurr

You know what I think would be a sweet mod? A pickguard, similar to the ones on the Strandberg Varberg.


----------



## gunshow86de

Looks like it's time to file my tax return.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

The orange is my new 8 string, I can't freakinnnn wait!!!!


----------



## Santuzzo

stevexc said:


> Oh, it's no less valid than my scale-length issues, don't get me wrong, haha, just not one I was expecting - usually it's the opposite complaint, is all!
> 
> On the bright side, I don't see why this neck would be treated any differently than any other Carvin neck... you've typically got the option for unfinished, IIRC.





gunshow86de said:


> *You the option to get tongue-oil or satin finish on the back of all Carvin necks.*



stop it guys, please, I was kinda glad to have found a reason NOT to buy this.... 

but seriously, for some reason I prefer bolt-on necks.


----------



## illimmigrant

I'll wait and see if Carvin puts out a 24 feet bolt like the C66. I really like my 727, but I'm gasing for a 6. Also waiting on the Misha sig price....


----------



## InfestedRabite

carvin is way too ruthless with the international redirects on their site eh

anyway i'm keen, this could be an end of year purchase for me if things go well financially


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

illimmigrant said:


> I'll wait and see if Carvin puts out a 24 feet bolt like the C66. I really like my 727, but I'm gasing for a 6. Also waiting on the Misha sig price....



They have a few 24-fret Bolt-ons planned, don't they?


----------



## technomancer

Glad they did the cut off the top on the arm contour instead of a real drop top, it'll save me money if I go to buy one of these 

That said there are a lot of things I will buy before buying one of these


----------



## atticus1088

technomancer said:


> Glad they did the cut off the top on the arm contour instead of a real drop top, it'll save me money if I go to buy one of these



Completely agree. I really dig that flamed trans black 6, but that cutoff is pretty odd.

I've always wanted a flamed maple body.....


----------



## BigViolin

porknchili said:


> Lol, I just noticed that Carvin is using the Jcustom headpieces on the 6 string models instead of the Hipshot version.



Curious how this will shake out. The headpiece on the 7 and 8 look odd to me in these pics. I think the hipshot will accept both plain and double ball strings. I sure hope so.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The black one reminds me of a waaaaay less douchey version of the Steinberger Demon.


----------



## celticelk

BigViolin said:


> Curious how this will shake out. The headpiece on the 7 and 8 look odd to me in these pics. I think the hipshot will accept both plain and double ball strings. I sure hope so.



It's the Hipshot headpiece, which apparently will accept double-ball strings, but since no one makes them in gauges heavier than .050 or thereabouts, or long enough to accommodate a 27" scale, I don't see why it would matter.


----------



## HurrDurr

BigViolin said:


> Curious how this will shake out. The headpiece on the 7 and 8 look odd to me in these pics. I think the hipshot will accept both plain and double ball strings. I sure hope so.



It does.


----------



## travis bickle

Can't wait for the reviews to start pouring in, I'm very interested in this instrument. i may even opt for the 8 string version.


----------



## Mike

Wasn't it 2 days left in the countdown yesterday? Guess they said, "Fvck it, no matter which part we show they'll know its headless, just give em the whole damn thing Karl"


----------



## Hollowway

Change of plans. I want Francesco's!!

And is it just me or does the 8 string look the best proportioned?


----------



## HurrDurr

celticelk said:


> It's the Hipshot headpiece, which apparently will accept double-ball strings, but since no one makes them in gauges heavier than .050 or thereabouts, or long enough to accommodate a 27" scale, I don't see why it would matter.



Well, there is that 12-68 set that Steinberger makes, but I'm almost positive their TranScale's are 28 5/8" like that Demon posted above.


----------



## Insinfier

I really wanted one of Steinberger's Transcales whateveritscalled, but I couldn't find a reliable source for the double ball baritone sets. All the double ball sets I found were really light.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Hollowway said:


> And is it just me or does the 8 string look the best proportioned?


I was thinking the same thing. Seems less pointy than the others.

Hope we get some pricing info soon. Pretty interested, although I'm a little concerned with how it will feel in the classical position. Seems like you'd have the bridge and strap button poking your leg.


----------



## HurrDurr

Insinfier said:


> I really wanted one of Steinberger's Transcales whateveritscalled, but I couldn't find a reliable source for the double ball baritone sets. All the double ball sets I found were really light.



The internet has a plethora of market places ready and willing to sell you sets. Their heavy-gauge 'baritone set' is about $10 USD.


----------



## stevexc

Electric Wizard said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Seems less pointy than the others.
> 
> Hope we get some pricing info soon. Pretty interested, although I'm a little concerned with how it will feel in the classical position. Seems like you'd have the bridge and strap button poking your leg.



I could be wrong (shocker) but with the reduced size of the guitar I'd think one would be more comfortable playing it suspended from a strap rather than resting on your lap.

I'm still think it'll be priced around the same as the Holdsworth, maybe a bit less... assuming it gets released as a normal Carvin model and/or follows Carvin's typical pricing.

Francesco, can you give us a ballpark on yours?


----------



## gunshow86de

Hollowway said:


> And is it just me or does the 8 string look the best proportioned?



I was actually thinking it looks the worst proportioned. 

It seems like they designed the shape on the 7-string model, and then just added a string for the 8, and took one away for the 6.


----------



## Insinfier

HurrDurr said:


> The internet has a plethora of market places ready and willing to sell you sets. Their heavy-gauge 'baritone set' is about $10 USD.



When I was hunting for it, I only found one shop with a .068 set. Since then, they've removed it from their site. Gave up on all that once that happened.


----------



## MatthewK

The V8 looks kinda tomato-y. Coincidence?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

This new model looks awesome!


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

stevexc said:


> I take it the orange 8 is FrancescoFiligoi's? I really dig that color combo, tbh. Wish there was a better shot!



I have some, here you go:

















specs:

- black limba top finished in KRO (Kiesel Racing Orange)
- satin finish
- chambered black limba body
- zebrawood fb
- maple neck thru with black limba stripes
- new Kiesel pickups
- looks like EVO gold frets but I'm not sure!
- weighs 6.9 pounds


----------



## blaxquid

Eeeehhhhhhhh soooooo HOW MUCH?


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Fan dem frets Carvin, and you'll make another customer out of me one day!


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

blaxquid said:


> Eeeehhhhhhhh soooooo HOW MUCH?



No idea! I know they're doing some waiting lists though, contact ChrisH!


----------



## Electric Wizard

stevexc said:


> I could be wrong (shocker) but with the reduced size of the guitar I'd think one would be more comfortable playing it suspended from a strap rather than resting on your lap.


I always played my XEN with it in my lap. Personally I like the feel of a smaller body for that position, it feels "closer" for lack of a better word.


----------



## USMarine75

FWIW... I sent Carvin an email inquiring about how much for an SCB7C several weeks ago and haven't heard back... they must be swamped right now.


----------



## Blasphemer

After following this thread and seeing the terrible photoshop posted yesterday, this is how I feel now that the actual guitar has been released


----------



## Curt

Oh...my... I think I need a 7 in aquaburst with a burled maple top. That would do it.


----------



## jwade

Weird, seeing it with the hardware has actually kind of killed any interest I had. Just not a fan of the Hipshot headless hardware apparently. Ah well, saves me some money!


----------



## BucketheadRules

As a fan of bright green guitars, may I just say how appreciative I am that they picked the right colour for the gradual revealing


----------



## bostjan

Mmm looks nice, especially the V8 with the zebrawood FB!


----------



## ChrisH

porknchili said:


> Lol, I just noticed that Carvin is using the Jcustom headpieces on the 6 string models instead of the Hipshot version.



That's because the 6 string ones didn't come in on time. We aren't actually using hipshot's headpiece but they are made by hipshot if that makes sense. The real ones for the 6 will be on there after NAMM.


----------



## Hollowway

I'd really like to see the back of the headpiece to see if here's a big square block thing there or if the beck goes down smoothly to the headpiece. I hate the big square blocks of wood on headless guitars.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I might be wrong....






But it looks pretty uniform here.


----------



## MetalBuddah

Ok. I know what my next purchase is. No new gear until Spring. Holy shit.


Now....how many strings????


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm such a ....ing consumer. I really didn't care about these a week ago, but now all the hype has me considering using my taxes on one.


----------



## cardinal

I don't have any interest (I like trems), but bravo to Carvin. This guitar looks very nice for what it is. They got the proportions right (on the 7 at least). The horns look good.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Does Carvin do Probono work?


----------



## stevexc

JaxoBuzzo said:


> Does Carvin do Probono work?



Nah, they're not much into U2 at all.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

omgosh a price point would be just, like, so totally gnarly, ya'll hahaha L0l!!!11


----------



## simonXsludge

The 8 looks the best proportions-wise. Sweet fiddle you're getting there, Francesco. Congrats!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Money is on the table. Let's go, Carvin!


----------



## Overtone

Hollowway said:


> I'd really like to see the back of the headpiece to see if here's a big square block thing there or if the beck goes down smoothly to the headpiece. I hate the big square blocks of wood on headless guitars.



On the HH it's just the regular neck profile all the way to the end.


----------



## shanejohnson02

I might be down for this. I've been variably wanting a DC700, SCB7, or CT7 as my next electric at different times, recently. There's just so many options!

BUT, I can handle the 27" scale, and the chambered body may just seal the deal. It seems like a poor (but not that poor) man's Chris Letchford sig.


----------



## leonardo7

Even though chambered is nothing new on a neck through guitar (Mayones always chambers their mahogany Regius and always has FYI), now someone can order two identical guitars, one chambered and one not and note noticeable differences in tone


----------



## Forkface

holy shit Carvin's international webpage fucking sucks lmao.

thanks to whoever posted the printscreens or whatever to the thread. I might get one after all, looks good. I don't like how the top suddenly disappears on the arm contour, so I'm heavily considering a solid color, but other than that, specs are pretty much on point.


----------



## thrsher

6.9 lbs seems pretty heavy for that 8 string


----------



## BigViolin

celticelk said:


> It's the Hipshot headpiece, which apparently will accept double-ball strings, but since no one makes them in gauges heavier than .050 or thereabouts, or long enough to accommodate a 27" scale, I don't see why it would matter.



Good point, hopefully that changes if the market expands. I think recently La Bella brought back a set because of customer requests. I use them on my HH and love them. I'm encouraged as someone like d'addario or GHS who are already tooled up to make them wouldn't have to start from scratch.


----------



## Andromalia

That's the first Carvin that really catches my eye but with their EU pricing model (using distributors that hijack the prices like mad) I think I'll still pass.


----------



## Guitarrags

thrsher said:


> 6.9 lbs seems pretty heavy for that 8 string



Agreed, especially for a headless.


----------



## gigawhat

Its nice, I'd love to buy one, Ive been wanting a headless seven for years. But of course it would be unplayable for me for longer than a couple of minutes without being in incredible pain. Now I get to sit here while everyone is so excited and watch all the NGDs that I cant join in. 

Great job on making exactly what I want Carvin, and then adding the one spec I cant live with. Its almost like you DONT want my or a ton of other people's money, because if you did having such a requested model available in ONLY baritone is stupid beyond belief. Im seriously super pissed at this. Guess instead of giving Carvin $3k like I was going to, Ill just continue saving for a Strandberg, because after this Troll-of-the-Year, Im not buying ANY Carvin till they release this in 25.5, at least for 6 & 7 string.

/Bitchy & Whiny Rant.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Very hype. Can't wait to see some NGDs of them!


----------



## Hollowway

The base price on these is going to be higher than the base price of the regular DC series to account for the hardware. That's what the Carvin guys said. Not sure what it is (that remains to be seen) but it will be higher. Ugh. I really want an identical one to that orange one, but I also need another guitar like I need another hole in my head. And I suck at selling stuff, because I can't part with anything.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'd imagine it'll be around $1100 - $1200 base price, and $50 - $100 per extra string?


----------



## decreebass

porknchili said:


> I'm curious as to how many people are going to order the Vader on the first day it's available.



Me!1!!!!


----------



## celticelk

^^^ A $200 premium over the equivalent DCx00 model seems a reasonable guess as a starting point - someone a ways back in the thread calculated that as the difference between the DC hardware costs and the Vader hardware costs, and while the margin is probably a bit lower at wholesale prices, I imagine it's in that ballpark.


----------



## Dominoes282

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'd imagine it'll be around $1100 - $1200 base price, and $50 - $100 per extra string?



I'm guessing they're going to do the DC pricing scheme


----------



## Alberto7

^^^^^^ Holy funkin' rants brah!

Been following this thread for the past few days and it's honestly one of the best threads on this site.  This Vader guitfiddle is absolute tits. I've never been much of a 27" guy, but I honestly don't really care what scale my guitars are either (unless they are 24.75" tuned to F#, or 30"... then I'd actually reconsider). If I had the money, I'd get one; it looks fantastic, and has a ton of amazing options.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

thrsher said:


> 6.9 lbs seems pretty heavy for that 8 string



I don't know, man. An Ibanez S5528LW weighs just over 8 lbs, and that's with a body still traditionally considered one of the lightest on the market.

(source: Ibanez S5528LW - Hazelnut Ale Brown | Sweetwater.com)


----------



## ChrisH

Wait til some of you guys at NAMM feel the weight on some of the guitars ;D


----------



## Jake

Need to know price. Need to not buy anything else


----------



## MBMoreno

The scale length had me hesitant, being a neck-thru I'm out


----------



## Dabo Fett

Sure it's only two weeks away, but not completely in love with the shape... Now to decide, do I wait for the vader or just order a dc7x now??


----------



## ThePIGI King

What if tomorrow, with that extra day left the reveal different options in scale lengths, since you know, today was day 2...I think.


----------



## gunch

I guess everyone did already complain about there being only one scale length option, just popping in to say holy shit Carvin finally filled the gap in headless super strats.

The 27" has me pensive though.


----------



## thrsher

Dabo Fett said:


> Sure it's only two weeks away, but not completely in love with the shape... Now to decide, do I wait for the vader or just order a dc7x now??



Def wait to see if new woods are released at least


----------



## The Griffinator

Why not do a proper drop top on these? I had my heart set on a flame maple top/ chambered ash body, but that arm bevel really kills that dream for me. Is it a purely aesthetic choice, or does the design of the guitar prevent using a normal drop top?


----------



## ferret

Two notes:

ChrisH posted on Carvin BBS confirmed that Vader IS available for leftys.

25" and 25.5" scale are not being released, I got confirmation on that in email from them.


----------



## ChrisH

ferret said:


> Two notes:
> 
> ChrisH posted on Carvin BBS confirmed that Vader IS available for leftys.
> 
> 25" and 25.5" scale are not being released, I got confirmation on that in email from them.



Yes, the model will come with a lefty option.

ALSO

If you guys are REALLY bummed about there not being a 25.5" scale option, take to Jeff's facebook page and make your voices known. We appreciate and value everyone's opinions here so before everyone just throws their hands up and gives up on us let him know what you think and maybe he might get to working on something after NAMM craziness settles down. When it comes down to it, we are in business to sell awesome guitars and make people happy. While he doesn't come on here very often I on the other hand have been following these threads closely from the very beginning. So whatever has been posted here, Jeff heard about it through me. On his Facebook he can hear about it from you. While I can't guarantee we can get a different scale for the Vader I can assure you that unlike other companies that blow their wad at NAMM and stay quiet the rest of the year we are not done yet. We have a LOT of surprises planned over the next year alone so you never know.

Again, thanks for all the feedback (and the lols) and I can't wait for people to start posting their Vader NGDs!


----------



## jco5055

I'd DEFINITELY be interested if the 7 string model had a tremolo option.


----------



## celticelk

jco5055 said:


> I'd DEFINITELY be interested if the 7 string model had a tremolo option.



Using what hardware? Or is Carvin supposed to produce a headless 7-string trem from thin air?


----------



## Spacestationfive

celticelk said:


> Using what hardware? Or is Carvin supposed to produce a headless 7-string trem from thin air?



He can just bend the neck REALLY HARD.


----------



## jco5055

celticelk said:


> Using what hardware? Or is Carvin supposed to produce a headless 7-string trem from thin air?




well 1) since there's already a trem option for the HH models I assume, though it would take longer and cost more, the same company (JCustom?) could make a 7 string version. and 2)There's stuff like the Strandberg trem, hell that's what I'd probably do except I believe they're already ~$600 or so.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

I can't begin to think of a number of posts where people have bitched and moaned about guitars only available in a standard scale length. Now, you have that 2.5", more bitching and moaning. You guys are unsatisfiable.haha


----------



## btbg

Well, considering the Holdsworth models are 6 string guitars and Strandberg stuff costs a lot more than Carvin stuff, that might be a hint..


----------



## yingmin

jco5055 said:


> well 1) since there's already a trem option for the HH models I assume, though it would take longer and cost more, the same company (JCustom?) could make a 7 string version. and 2)There's stuff like the Strandberg trem, hell that's what I'd probably do except I believe they're already ~$600 or so.



They could, and I really wish they would, but it's not as simple as you make it sound. They might need new machines to accommodate bridges with more strings, and they might not consider it a very sound investment. If Carvin could offer them a significant enough contract to make the risk worthwhile, they might do a test run of 7 or 8 string bridges, but I wouldn't assume that tremolos would be immediately available even if they did that.


----------



## mnemonic

I'm looking at that Hipshot bridge some more... has anyone ever tried it? Is it comfortable?

The edges on it are giving me nightmares about that original Ibanez Gibraltar bridge with the huge ass shoulders;







I guess if worse comes to worst, one could use an angle grinder to take the edge off...


----------



## Pikka Bird

^I'm thinking it'll feel slightly less uncomfortable than an old Tele ashtray bridge with the saddles bottomed out.


----------



## MatthewK

The only reason tele ashtrays bother me is because the sides extend into the picking area of the strings. I'm over the 27" scale thing. The fact that it's headless should alleviate most of my issues with scale length, such as neck heaviness.


----------



## celticelk

JaxoBuzzo said:


> I can't begin to think of a number of posts where people have bitched and moaned about guitars only available in a standard scale length. Now, you have that 2.5", more bitching and moaning. You guys are unsatisfiable.haha



There's a contingent of players that prefer standard scales, and a contingent of players that prefer extended scales. If you release a new model with a single scale length, *somebody's* gonna bitch about it. The extended-scale guys simply have more opportunities to bitch.


----------



## ferret

Instagram

Video of that orange V8. You can see how the end of the neck looks a couple of times.


----------



## MetalDaze

ferret said:


> Two notes:
> 
> ChrisH posted on Carvin BBS confirmed that Vader IS available for leftys.
> 
> 25" and 25.5" scale are not being released, I got confirmation on that in email from them.



Lefties...yes!


----------



## Adam Of Angels

What's the arm contour like on these? Is it super dramatic? I hope so, and I ask because in that video it looks like dude's arm is resting at a pretty significant angle, which is something I go for.


----------



## hardvalve

I am very excited by this, exactly what I am looking for in a 6 string. Would a tremolo be nice, yes, but not a deal breaker. I saw some speculation on prices, is there an actual price list yet, haven't seen one?

I have to say Carvin has been listening to their customers, and gone from a company that was a novelty to me, to a real viable option. I have been close to buying the HH2 a few times, but really wanted a longer scale. Never tried the Hipshot headless, but their tuners and fixed bridge I have are outstanding.


----------



## InfestedRabite

didn't see this pic posted







if you look real closely you can see my wallet opening up in the background


----------



## Hollowway

^


----------



## youngthrasher9

I was never a fan of headless guitars, but that's gonna be a contender for my next guitar...


----------



## weirdoku

Ha. The front side of the green and orange one definitely hasn't been photoshopped to look brighter have they now?  You can clearly see they line at the edge of the body and at the contours.



mnemonic said:


> I'm looking at that Hipshot bridge some more... has anyone ever tried it? Is it comfortable?
> 
> The edges on it are giving me nightmares about that original Ibanez Gibraltar bridge with the huge ass shoulders;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if worse comes to worst, one could use an angle grinder to take the edge off...



I had an Iron Label with that bridge, hated it. I've now stripped that guitar for parts. That's much much I hated it.


----------



## Hollowway

Not sure why they would photoshop them to make them brighter. It's the brightness that seems to turn most people off of those colors. 

So how are they doing the pain edge on the forearm bevel? They've said before that if you want a clear natural back and painted top (or vice versa) you need a separate top wood so the ladies in the masking department have a guide to place the masking tape. But if the forearm bevel cuts through the top wood, does that mean some backwood will show and the paint will stop there?


----------



## decreebass

InfestedRabite said:


> didn't see this pic posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you look real closely you can see my wallet opening up in the background



In this pic it looks VERY much like a JPX BFR (PDN run maybe?) - This is so beautiful that it's made me reconsider maybe going for a fancy top after all... Although, the forearm cut (and associated polarizing aesthetics) are suspiciously outta sight... I'd love to see this from a few different angles.

Maybe, given the forearm cut, the top would have to be dark so the cut doesn't give such an abrupt cut to the topwood.

We'll see.


----------



## youngthrasher9

Anyone know about how much these things will be going for?

And on the subject of that Ibanez bridge that everybody seems to bitch about: I have a guitar with one and I actually love it. Maybe I'm the minority.


*cue Eric Cartman Minorities song*


----------



## geofreesun

with the all new kiesel branding i think these might carry a (much) higher price tag? we will know in a few days~


----------



## Hollowway

I actually like the back wood showing though in forearm cuts. But I generally prefer an attempt be made to highlight the difference, like leave it natural, paint it a different color, etc. I'd rock that flamed blue top if the back (and therefore forearm contour) was natural.


----------



## ferret

Hollowway said:


> I actually like the back wood showing though in forearm cuts. But I generally prefer an attempt be made to highlight the difference, like leave it natural, paint it a different color, etc. I'd rock that flamed blue top if the back (and therefore forearm contour) was natural.



I was thinking that I'd prefer it with a slight curve, so it's not an abrupt edge. Akin to the SCB, of course.


----------



## decreebass

Nope. Nothing but speculation at this point. People are assuming it's going to be pretty close to the DC pricing scheme. I doubt base price for the V8 will be more than $1200. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Hollowway said:


> So how are they doing the pain edge on the forearm bevel? They've said before that if you want a clear natural back and painted top (or vice versa) you need a separate top wood so the ladies in the masking department have a guide to place the masking tape. But if the forearm bevel cuts through the top wood, does that mean some backwood will show and the paint will stop there?


I got curious as to what an unpainted bevel with the body wood showing would look like. I kinda like it, kinda don't. Probably better with a rounded bevel.


----------



## HighGain510

geofreesun said:


> with the all new kiesel branding i think these might carry a (much) higher price tag? we will know in a few days~



That's already been debunked. Carvin (don't recall if it was Jeff Kiesel himself or one of the customer support folks like Chris) stated Kiesel logos are applied to builds that are special/different due to an Option 50. It is not supposed to have anything to do with being synonymous with substantially-higher pricing whatsoever. They said they'll announce the pricing soon but speculating that it's more expensive due to the Kiesel logo is incorrect, it's not a "Kiesel Edition" just because it has the Kiesel logo. Kiesel Editions are the ones that are way more expensive than standard Carvins.


----------



## decreebass

HighGain510 said:


> That's already been debunked. Carvin (don't recall if it was Jeff Kiesel himself or one of the customer support folks like Chris) stated Kiesel logos are applied to builds that are special/different due to an Option 50. It is not supposed to have anything to do with being synonymous with substantially-higher pricing whatsoever. They said they'll announce the pricing soon but speculating that it's more expensive due to the Kiesel logo is incorrect, it's not a "Kiesel Edition" just because it has the Kiesel logo. Kiesel Editions are the ones that are way more expensive than standard Carvins.



Sounds like they're taking a page out of EBMM's book; where "BFR" really doesn't mean anything unless it's in the title (since my JP13 is apparently a BFR according to the neck plate, but it's not a BFR as in "JP13 BFR" - though I have heard someone selling their standard JP13 as a 'JP13 BFR'...) so that You will have your Vader V8 which has the Kiesel branding but then the next guy will have a Vader V8 Kiesel Edition which also has the Kiesel branding and is personally built by Jeff & Mark and is (as a rule) a much more aesthetically pleasing instrument.

Anyway, clear as mud, right?


----------



## Richie666

Any word on if there will be a lefty model available?


----------



## SnowfaLL

Richie666 said:


> Any word on if there will be a lefty model available?



ChrisH said there will be lefty's available.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Richie666 said:


> Any word on if there will be a lefty model available?



Pretty sure it was confirmed in this thread recently that there will be, but I'm not positive.

So I've pretty much made it up in my mind that I'm getting one of these, dependent on price. Time to actually use my carvin card after having it for a year.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It was confirmed that there's a lefty.


----------



## Guamskyy

... Did I come in too late to complain about the scale length?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yes.

Get out.


----------



## Mangekyo

I'm sure all of you have been waiting for my say on the reveal and things. Here it goes.


I definitely like the look of the guitar in the vertical position, a little less in the horizontal position (which is how it's going to look 95% of the time) not that this point matters, I'm just weird like that.

I also think that the 8 string version looks the best in terms of proportions, but I'll have to see more pictures of each model to make an absolute statement about my opinion on that.


Anyone else like how the V8 model looks like it has the colors of V8 veggie drinks?


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Oh shit, just got approved for a credit card that gathers cash back points, and has 15 months of no interest. My wallet is now spring loaded. Take my god damn money, Carvin!


----------



## Mangekyo

Oh, there is one point of concern for me though. 

The huge different between the edges of the bridge and the body of the guitar. I rest my wrist RIGHT across my floyd and the body of my guitar so I can easily and quickly shift from palm mutes to non palm mutes. Resting my wrist on the bridge DOES NOT seem like an option with this guitar. That's the only concern I have here.


As for wanting a a figured top on this guitar, I'm imagine a large portion of people would be content ordering their vader with black back/sides or even black burst edges to "cover up" the forearm cut off point. 







The body wood would probably be painted black (which would probably include that front area) and you'd have a figured top with the color of your choice (or lack of). It probably doesn't look back like that. In fact the V6 model on that picture has exactly what I am talking about except I think that corner is trans black and not regular black.


----------



## Mangekyo

thrsher said:


> 6.9 lbs seems pretty heavy for that 8 string



Well, black limba isn't exactly the lightest wood on the market. 

and the neck is maple, which, is pretty dang heavy.


----------



## Necris

I want them to show up at NAMM and say "Oh yeah, and we made a headless bass too".
I can dream, right?


----------



## Mangekyo

Maybe carvin will pop out a harp guitar, we can have a headless bass and guitar in one.


----------



## decreebass

Well, it looks like the hype is over for now...

Carvin should release the price like The Price Is Right; give us one digit a day and let us speculate on where it belongs in the price. Or something to do with Plinko...


----------



## Hollowway

Well, given that the headpiece is custom and the tailpiece is about $300 more than the regular hipshot bridge, I'm going to do simple math here and say the headpiece and tuners roughly cancel each other out, and the $300 is added to give a price of...

$1299 base!

Anyone else care to weigh in? I'm thinking $1299 to $1399, but hoping for the lower of the two. Either way, it's still a helluva deal. Fully spec'd I don't think I'd hit $2000.


----------



## gunshow86de

Base for the HH2 is $1,249, so yeah, I'm thinking no more than $1,500.


----------



## teamSKDM

Im thinking itll be tge same price as an hh2, because if my memory serves me right i believe the headless hardware from hipshot ia actually slightly cheaper than the bridges from the hh2, maybe theyre the same price i cant remember. Ill look it up when im home


----------



## decreebass

Damn. In that case, I'm sure fully-spec'd I'm gonna be North of $2.3k.

It's gonna be worth it though.

Although, this will be the first time I'll have a chance to actually play the thing before I buy it. I bet at their NAMM booth they're gonna have both chambered and solid body options. Definitely going for chambered... Definitely maybe. Hopefully it won't add too much to the cost. SS frets & other options + fancy top + chambering = probably pretty pricey.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm hoping to get away with spending $1500, give or take a little. Save for color, and God willing a quilt top, I'll probably just leave it stock. I am not a very particular person when it comes to specs.


----------



## teamSKDM

Burl maple top ash body walnut neck all dyed black black blackkk all black errrrthangggg.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

decreebass said:


> Damn. In that case, I'm sure fully-spec'd I'm gonna be North of $2.3k.
> 
> It's gonna be worth it though.
> 
> Although, this will be the first time I'll have a chance to actually play the thing before I buy it. I bet at their NAMM booth they're gonna have both chambered and solid body options. Definitely going for chambered... Definitely maybe. Hopefully it won't add too much to the cost. SS frets & other options + fancy top + chambering = probably pretty pricey.



"Chambering is $150" 
- Chris H

Not bad if you ask me!


----------



## ferret

Per Mike Jones on CarvinBBS:

The neck cap (What would be the technical term?) used for the Vader is a custom designed end piece by Mark and Jeff, being manufactures by Hipshot. So it's a Hipshot Bridge with a custom Hipshot end piece.

The 6-string in the photos has a J-Custom end piece because the 6-string version from Hipshot was not in stock yet.


----------



## hardvalve

ferret said:


> Per Mike Jones on CarvinBBS:
> 
> The neck cap (What would be the technical term?) used for the Vader is a custom designed end piece by Mark and Jeff, being manufactures by Hipshot. So it's a Hipshot Bridge with a custom Hipshot end piece.
> 
> The 6-string in the photos has a J-Custom end piece because the 6-string version from Hipshot was not in stock yet.



I was wondering about that.


----------



## jeremyb

That bridge just looks nasty cheap


----------



## cubix

Yeah I don't feel the bridge at all and the edges don't look that comfortable... They seem too high in respect to the actual saddles. The J-Custom bridge on the HH models looks much much better and I'm pretty sure it would feel better aswell. Anyway the 27" for the 6 string is a showstopper for me so not really interested anymore... bummer


----------



## teamSKDM

teamSKDM said:


> Im thinking itll be tge same price as an hh2, because if my memory serves me right i believe the headless hardware from hipshot ia actually slightly cheaper than the bridges from the hh2, maybe theyre the same price i cant remember. Ill look it up when im home



Ok i was kinda right. The hipshot is cheaper than the j custom tremolo but the j custom hardtail is cheaper than the hipshot headless


----------



## hardvalve

Hipshot makes really high quality stuff. Not sure the edges will be as pronounced as it appears. I will find out....


----------



## celticelk

I find it interesting, but unsurprising, that quite a few people are questioning the playability of a bridge that they have not only never played, but never *seen in person*.


----------



## mnemonic

I guess we're not allowed to have an opinion until we buy one. 

Shame I can't put to use this experience with other bridges that have similar characteristics and looks, and thus make an educated guess as to what the bridge might feel like under the palm. Oh well.


----------



## celticelk

mnemonic said:


> I guess we're not allowed to have an opinion until we buy one.
> 
> Shame I can't put to use this experience with other bridges that have similar characteristics and looks, and thus make an educated guess as to what the bridge might feel like under the palm. Oh well.



You're talking about your previous comment about the Gibraltar, yes? What's your basis for thinking they might actually have similar flaws? I couldn't quite parse it from your comment, except something about them both having edges, and maybe saddles.


----------



## mnemonic

celticelk said:


> You're talking about your previous comment about the Gibraltar, yes? What's your basis for thinking they might actually have similar flaws? I couldn't quite parse it from your comment, except something about them both having edges, and maybe saddles.



The edges of the bridge are what I'm talking about, having played bridges like the Gibraltar, and American strats that have very squared-off saddle edges which dig into my palm when I try to palm mute.

This picture:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5864881/vader1.jpg

looks like the bridge has both a very squared-off lip around the saddles that would dig into the palm, as well as the raised-edge/shoulders/whatever you call it, around the saddles (like the Gibraltar).

I can't recall ever having played an ashtray-bridge tele, which it probably bares the closest resemblance. 

I don't think I would call them 'flaws,' more like 'design choices' that I don't think are the best. 

Something like that wouldn't stop me from buying one if I get the chance though, as it wouldn't be too hard to remedy the potential issues with an angle grinder, or some elbow grease and a metal file.


----------



## sartorious

This answers a recurrent question:
"Interview with Mark and Jeff Kiesel as they break the BIG and EXCITING news announcing the Kiesel Guitars name and branching the guitar division off as it's own company."


----------



## Church2224

Looks like Kiesel Guitars are kind of like their private stock guitars. Interesting


----------



## asher




----------



## Chokey Chicken

So they're just re-branding back to what they used to be called? Nothing wrong with that, I reckon.


----------



## cardinal

That seemed clear as mud? I guess I was only half paying attention, but it sounded like Carvin is staying the same, there will be some Kiesel editions, but it's still unclear to me what custom orders would be "Kiesel" vs. not.


----------



## powerofze

That confused me a little.


----------



## gunshow86de

Welcome to Carvin Kiesel Carvin guitars, the company where everything is made up and the names don't matter.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I only saw the first few minutes but it sounds like they were once called kiesel, had to change the name to carvin to avoid legal stuff, and are now going back to kiesel. 

If I understand correctly, carvin will be the name on amps and such, and kiesel will be the name on the guitars.


----------



## gunshow86de

Chokey Chicken said:


> I only saw the first few minutes but it sounds like they were once called kiesel, had to change the name to carvin to avoid legal stuff, and are now going back to kiesel.
> 
> If I understand correctly, carvin will be the name on amps and such, and kiesel will be the name on the guitars.



Some of the guitars will still be branded Carvin though (I'm guessing all the older models?). I think that's what is confusing people.


----------



## asher

What the hell is wrong with leaving it as is or slightly more formalizing it as the Private Stock equivalent?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm still guessing that the standard option guitars will still be named Carvin, but Option 50'd stuff and the Kiesel Edition guitars will have the Kiesel logo.


----------



## asher

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm still guessing that the standard option guitars will still be named Carvin, but Option 50'd stuff and the Kiesel Edition guitars will have the Kiesel logo.



Make sense, this would.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That's weird. The way it was worded in the beginning had me confused. I'll have to watch it later when I can pay attention. Still just sounds like a pride thing, wanting to begin using the name they never wanted to abandon. I can dig it.


----------



## powerofze

That's what I thought initially (like what they are doing right now) until they started mentioning Kiesel guitars and Kiesel editions as separate entities. 

So my understanding is that there will be Carvin, Kiesel and Kiesel Edition. Either that or I am very confused


----------



## Jake

to attempt to clear it up. From the website


----------



## Mike

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm still guessing that the standard option guitars will still be named Carvin, but Option 50'd stuff and the Kiesel Edition guitars will have the Kiesel logo.



That's pretty much what it is. Kiesel stuff will have to be special in one way or another (Specific models, Option 50's, special attention to detail, and Jeff's hands on work) to get the label. Carvin labeled stuff will be the same quality as always (or better than the past anyway because of new machines, tech, etc.), just minus all the extra bells and whistles.

Brings up the question though, how many option 50's does it take to get to the center of a Kiesel pop? I don't think just a single volume knob and 1 pickup config are necessarily going to be crazy enough to consider it Kieselized.


----------



## cardinal

Seems strange to me, but not nearly as bad as the ESP/EII nonsense. 

But definitely after seeing them side-by-side: PLEASE Carvin/Kiesel/Whoever redesign the top horn of the DC700 to look more like the Vader. Currently it look just wrong IMHO.


----------



## troyguitar

So can you get a special custom Kiesel Vader in 25.5"?


----------



## asher

troyguitar said:


> So can you get a special custom Kiesel Vader in 25.5"?



If so, Carvin plays the long game


----------



## Jake

All I want is a price for the Vader so I can make my final decision 

Hurry up NAMM I need to do some budgeting soon


----------



## ferret

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm still guessing that the standard option guitars will still be named Carvin, but Option 50'd stuff and the Kiesel Edition guitars will have the Kiesel logo.



But for some reason, they still seem to be refusing to clearly explain it :/

Jake's pictures made it even more unclear to me. Is the SCB line now officially "Kiesel" and not "Carvin" at all? What is a "Special Kiesel Designed Carvin"? How is it different from a "Kiesel Model" and a "Kiesel Edition"?


----------



## stevexc

ferret said:


> But for some reason, they still seem to be refusing to clearly explain it :/
> 
> Jake's pictures made it even more unclear to me. Is the SCB line now officially "Kiesel" and not "Carvin" at all? What is a "Special Kiesel Designed Carvin"? How is it different from a "Kiesel Model" and a "Kiesel Edition"?



From the other Carvin thread:



> Jeff from Facebook: "Let me chime in here and hopefully clear some confusion up. Me and my dad (Mark Kiesel) have split off from the rest of the family. We have been running the Guitar division here since 1970 (my dad has) we now own both Carvin Guitars and Kiesel Guitars . The Carvin Guitars line will continue with no changes, they are still Carvin Guitars models with Carvin logos. The only Carvin Guitars models that are re branded as Kiesel Guitars are: SCB6, SCB7 and the NZ624. At NAMM this week we are launching new Carvin Guitars and new Kiesel Guitars models. The prices are not going up, actually on some models they are going down slightly. I know this is a lot to take in and we tried to do the best we could on the video explaining it. Bottom Line, the Carvin Guitars quality you know and love is only going to keep getting better and we have added some Kiesel Guitars branded models to the line. Carvin Amplifiers and Audio will be ran by the other half of the Kiesel family."



TL;DR Carvin Guitars stays the same, except it loses the SCB6/7 and NZ624 models. Kiesel Guitars will now produce those, Vader, the new what's his name sig, etc. Both have more models coming. Prices unaffected, potentially going down. "Kiesel Editions" will be super fancied up guitars, distinct from standard Kiesel Guitars.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If I were to guess, a Special Kiesel Designed is a guitar specced by the Kiesel family. Basically pre-built guitars you can buy from the site. and a Kiesel Edition is just that; a Kiesel Edition where you add the $2k extra and get whatever you want. And the Ultra Custom is Option 50, I believe?

I guess the best way to sum it up is that *anything not standard is a Kiesel guitar*.


----------



## ferret

lol I know, that was my post.

Still a lot unexplained. For example, CS624 is still a "Carvin" model. The newly posted page Jake's image is from now suggests that there are options locked behind the "Kiesel" brand. For example, trans white.

So before, I'd order a CS624, and pay $200 for transwhite. Can I still do that? Or do I now have to first pay another upcharge to make my "Carvin CS624" a "Special Kiesel Designed Carvin CS624"?

Etc. It's important, because I'm literally a couple weeks from throwing cash at them.


----------



## kevdes93

What makes the lee sig different from a dc700? Inlay?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

kevdes93 said:


> What makes the lee sig different from a dc700? Inlay?



That, comes stock with Kiesel pickups, and I think I spy a piezo system?


----------



## HaloHat

I don't care if it is a Carvin or a Kiesel or whatever, just give us some pointy 7 option in 2015 

V or X220 style with 27" scale is one of the the three 7 strings I still lust after. Semi-Hollow seven and a seven string acoustic-electric are the other two. 

I'm one of those people who actually buy what they ask for, so please Carvin/Kiesel.


----------



## technomancer

The only thing I care about in all of that: are the Kiesel Racing Green and Orange colors available on Carvin models


----------



## Alberto7

From what I've been able to see, it seems as though anything re-branded with the Kiesel name is anything that came out after Jeff took the reigns of the guitar side of things and things he came up with, including new models (SCB6 and 7, for example), new options (trans-white, color-treated boards, etc.), and any particular guitar that gets pimped out enough with unique options (option 50), judged by their standards, of course. I suppose one could ask for specifics once one places the order. I'd just ask "I want/don't want my instrument to bear the Kiesel name. What do I/don't I need on this instrument to make it so?"


----------



## ferret

technomancer said:


> The only thing I care about in all of that: are the Kiesel Racing Green and Orange colors available on Carvin models



I believe this is a yes, as I just got confirmation from Mike Jones that "Trans white" will continuing being available on all Carvin models.


----------



## 7stg

troyguitar said:


> So can you get a special custom Kiesel Vader in 25.5"?



And a 30 inch 8 string? multiscale?


----------



## MetalDaze

To me, this reads like some internal drama within the family. I suspect that the family as a whole has a claim on the tried and true Carvin designs. 

I bet that Jeff and Mark feel like they are innovating more on the guitar side than the rest of the business and want to carve out the benefits of that innovation for themselves. Or, maybe the rest of the family doesn't really support all of the new cool stuff they have been working on and want to keep things more traditional.

Either way, it supports the idea that the family has some differing opinions on the direction of the company and this move gives Jeff and Mark the ability to do what they want without having to get buy-in from everyone else


----------



## 7stg

Could there be tax advantages to restructuring?


----------



## SnowfaLL

Mike said:


> That's pretty much what it is. Kiesel stuff will have to be special in one way or another (Specific models, Option 50's, special attention to detail, and Jeff's hands on work) to get the label. Carvin labeled stuff will be the same quality as always (or better than the past anyway because of new machines, tech, etc.), just minus all the extra bells and whistles.
> 
> Brings up the question though, how many option 50's does it take to get to the center of a Kiesel pop? I don't think just a single volume knob and 1 pickup config are necessarily going to be crazy enough to consider it Kieselized.



From what I gathered when I spoke to ChrisH in pm, He kinda said you dont need a ton of opt 50s for a Kiesel logo. but I had the same concern if I didnt have enough options to be considered a Kiesel and he said just a small amount of options should be fine if you really wanted the Kiesel logo. Could be wrong though


----------



## cardinal

MetalDaze said:


> To me, this reads like some internal drama within the family. I suspect that the family as a whole has a claim on the tried and true Carvin designs.
> 
> I bet that Jeff and Mark feel like they are innovating more on the guitar side than the rest of the business and want to carve out the benefits of that innovation for themselves. Or, maybe the rest of the family doesn't really support all of the new cool stuff they have been working on and want to keep things more traditional.
> 
> Either way, it supports the idea that the family has some differing opinions on the direction of the company and this move gives Jeff and Mark the ability to do what they want without having to get buy-in from everyone else





7stg said:


> Could there be tax advantages to restructuring?



Yeah, there seems to be some type of corporate restructuring going on as well, so there may be some non-public business reasons for what's happening and the "Kiesel" brand is just a byproduct of some other decisions. 

In the end, Carvin appears it will continue being what it was last week, minus a few new models, and Kiesel will make some pretty cool looking stuff. So nothing to really get worked up about.


----------



## Alberto7

MetalDaze said:


> To me, this reads like some internal drama within the family. I suspect that the family as a whole has a claim on the tried and true Carvin designs.
> 
> I bet that Jeff and Mark feel like they are innovating more on the guitar side than the rest of the business and want to carve out the benefits of that innovation for themselves. Or, maybe the rest of the family doesn't really support all of the new cool stuff they have been working on and want to keep things more traditional.
> 
> Either way, it supports the idea that the family has some differing opinions on the direction of the company and this move gives Jeff and Mark the ability to do what they want without having to get buy-in from everyone else



This was one of the first things to come to my mind as well, but I'd rather not be too cynical before I can verify further.


----------



## HaloHat

troyguitar said:


> So can you get a special custom Kiesel Vader in 25.5"?



You'll be able to get a 25.5 or 25" scale Vader 6 and 7 string before you will be able to get a sunburn this summer.


----------



## Hollowway

MetalDaze said:


> To me, this reads like some internal drama within the family. I suspect that the family as a whole has a claim on the tried and true Carvin designs.
> 
> I bet that Jeff and Mark feel like they are innovating more on the guitar side than the rest of the business and want to carve out the benefits of that innovation for themselves. Or, maybe the rest of the family doesn't really support all of the new cool stuff they have been working on and want to keep things more traditional.
> 
> Either way, it supports the idea that the family has some differing opinions on the direction of the company and this move gives Jeff and Mark the ability to do what they want without having to get buy-in from everyone else



Yeah, this is really the most logical explanation. The other explanations fall apart when Jeff says in the article that the Kiesel brand and Carvin brand will both be in the same factory, but eventually the Kiesel brand will move into it's own factory, and he gives a time estimate of 1 to 5 years. It's going to be petty hard for Jeff to run over to the other factory to custom build a Carvin model at that point. So I think we're going to see a cessation of new Carvin models, and all future development will carry the Kiesel name. Some stuff, like pups, will be available for either.


----------



## Electric Wizard

MetalDaze said:


> Or, maybe the rest of the family doesn't really support all of the new cool stuff they have been working on and want to keep things more traditional.


I was gonna joke about how Carvin made so many 80s shredder guitars which aren't exactly traditional, but when I think about it, I bet a lot of people here would regard that kind of thing as old fashioned.

 I am excited to live in the nearish future when bright pink superstrats will truly be "traditional."


----------



## fps

OK, they can now call their guitars whatever they like. Does this mean Carvin are sorting out the worldwide shipping issue? Also... custom inlays?


----------



## hardvalve

Pretty confusing, I still want to know what the price is going to be.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

fps said:


> OK, they can now call their guitars whatever they like. Does this mean Carvin are sorting out the worldwide shipping issue? Also... custom inlays?



According to the link here, it seems like they actually are.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

hardvalve said:


> Pretty confusing, I still want to know what the price is going to be.



I think I read on facebook that the prices will be announced on Feb 1st when they've officially been released. I'm wondering if we'll find out sooner, what with NAMM starting tomorrow and all.

I'm super excited for the release, as I've been gassing surprisingly hard for one of these. I'll find a way to afford it one way or another.


----------



## Jake

Hoping the prices are revealed at NAMM. I need to make up my mind


----------



## UnquestionablePresence

A headless baritone 6 ain't bad. One that hasn't been decapitated from Carvin/Kiesel/Whatever would be even better. Still, I wouldn't mind owning a Vader. It's different in a way that isn't gaudy.


----------



## mr_ormus777

"However, Carvin Guitars and Kiesel Guitars plans to soon begin handling overseas sales of all of its instruments directly. This move will cut down costs for consumers, according Jeff Kiesel."
This makes me very warm and fuzzy since I was buying Carvin direct from them originally!!!


----------



## InfestedRabite

Jake said:


> Hoping the prices are revealed at NAMM. I need to make up my mind



from the guy posting pics from NAMM in the general music forum here:


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Don't they do some kind of discount as well? I'd imagine it'll be around $1150 for a very stripped-down version.


----------



## kevdes93

Good price! Its kinda blurry but it looks like it says "v7 - 1250"


----------



## Jlang

Yeah the v7 is listed at 1249


----------



## travis bickle

wow, this instrument is aggressively priced! I will wait for the reviews, but I'm planning on getting one of these later this year. still not sure if i will get the 7 or 8 string version.


----------



## Timelesseer

Man I was all but committed to getting one of the Misha sigs but if that price holds true it'll be tough not to jump all over it.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yup, 1250 which means the 6 and 8 will likely be a tad more or less. I'm definitely ordering one the second it's possible just because I have the money and why not?


----------



## crystallake

Timelesseer said:


> Man I was all but committed to getting one of the Misha sigs but if that price holds true it'll be tough not to jump all over it.



My thoughts exactly. I had no idea that these would be at such a great price. I was after a Misha sig too!


----------



## Jake

Oh fvck yes! Right where I hoped it would be. I can hope the V6 will be a little bit cheaper because ya know, stainless steel frets and trans white


----------



## sylcfh

That lower horn seems a bit little, especially with a girthy neck.


----------



## kevdes93

i was totally expecting 1399 base or something


----------



## niclebel

SOMEONE PLEASE POST A PICTURE OF THE CHAMBERED V8! Seriously, I'm dying to know the price of the chambered option and all.


----------



## rapterr15

I read either here or on the Carvin forum from an official Carvin rep (ChrisH I think) who said chambering is $200. Not bad.


----------



## celticelk

Jlang said:


> Yeah the v7 is listed at 1249



So a $300 premium over the DC700, and then presumably the same for the other models, which would put the Vader 6 at $1149 and the Vader 8 at $1369 base.


----------



## hardvalve

kevdes93 said:


> Good price! Its kinda blurry but it looks like it says "v7 - 1250"



I am excited, that is a GREAT price. Unlike most here, I really want the 6 string. I am a baritone 6 guy all the way. Just take my money already.


----------



## kevdes93

hardvalve said:


> I am excited, that is a GREAT price. Unlike most here, I really want the 6 string. I am a baritone 6 guy all the way. Just take my money already.



same, i love bari sixers. light gauge strings in drop C? hell yeah. longer scales are simply more comfortable for me and my 6 foot 5 frame


----------



## Jake

hardvalve said:


> I am excited, that is a GREAT price. Unlike most here, I really want the 6 string. I am a baritone 6 guy all the way. Just take my money already.


Yupp I'm going with a 6 as well. We'll see what tuning I put it in but definitely gonna have 6 strings


----------



## Hollowway

Sweet! I hope the V8 price is right there.


----------



## HighGain510

Yeah I too want to see what a chambered V8 will run. That's on my to-buy list for 2015 right now along with the Bulb sig! SON I AM EXCITE! Leaning towards the same finish as the V7 proto, i.e. satin kiesel racing green, with a birdseye maple board. I had wanted to do an HH2 with radiation green and a birdseye board but now I'm glad I held off! Plus I don't have an 8 so maybe this is the right time for me to finally grab one!


----------



## Mangekyo

celticelk said:


> So a $300 premium over the DC700, and then presumably the same for the other models, which would put the Vader 6 at $1149 and the Vader 8 at $1369 base.



I was hoping I could pick up a V8 with a base price under 1300... After options and all it can be crazy.

Dunno if I want chambering or not yet. So the V7 is the same price as a HH2 hmm


----------



## Mangekyo

Btw page 25 in that digital catalog shows the 8 string aquaburst V8... It looks dope. Check it out, I dunno how to do images from there. pg 24 has that green to yellow burst in V6. Awesome looking guitar.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

From the new Carin catalog 







*EDIT:* I thought the bobbins were white on that V8, in such case a corrected white balance is due:


----------



## JEngelking

I've been wanting a KRG DC600 for a while now, but now I'm thinking I might wanna save up some extra cash to get a chambered KRG V6 instead.


----------



## HighGain510

Could have sworn someone posted how much the chambering on a Vader was going to be previously? Was it $150 or $250?  Too many threads to go searching to figure out which one it was in!


----------



## ferret

I remember $150 but someone recently posted $200 I think.


----------



## kevdes93

i remember 150 as well


----------



## Mangekyo

I really want a 7 or an 8 but the 6 just looks so great. I know it's just glare, but that white tracing along the edges of the guitar make it look sharper and sleeker, and it just looks so yummy with that "tracing" on it. I'm probably still getting an 8, but the proportions on the 6 just look good. I don't know yet..


----------



## insaneshawnlane

Chris H had told me $150


----------



## russmuller

ferret said:


> I remember $150 but someone recently posted $200 I think.



I also remember seeing someone post that it was $200 for the chambered option. Even so, pricing it out it looks like I can get a V7 spec'ed out the way I want for about the same price as a DC7X.

A chambered, headless, 27" 7-string, with passive pickups and Hipshot hardware for under $2,200? I guess I know my next guitar is gonna be...


----------



## InfestedRabite

i need the aquaburst (with a more traditional maple fretboard) in my life in a serious, losing-sleep-over it kinda way


----------



## SnowfaLL

By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only.. 

You have no excuse now.


----------



## celticelk

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.



More precisely, you won't have an excuse for long.


----------



## Jake

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.


Well I was still in at 27" but with that coming





Guess I'll wait for that option


----------



## Jake

celticelk said:


> More precisely, you won't have an excuse for long.


More time to get my pennies together


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

$150 or $200 for chambering sounds more than fair to me. Especially with how much Black Water or someone else charge for that.


----------



## HighGain510

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.



Damn it... well this complicates things as I wasn't buying a 6'er because it wasn't 25.5" but decided on an 8 since the 27" scale makes sense there. Hmmm... the only logical decision... is to buy *TWO* Vaders!


----------



## ASoC

I was already planning on getting a 6, but now I can wait and get 25.5". Carvin and Kiesel rule.


----------



## cubix

OK, with the 25.5" this is definately interesting... So the 6 string string clamp will be the same as the 7 and 8 correct? I think I've read they didn't get the 6 string hipshot ones in time? Cause with that it just looks too long...


----------



## ferret

Gentlemen, I'm officially back in the Vader game.

Opt 50 color... I've got a Mitsubishi Lancer in their "Rotor Glow" metallic orange. I already have confirmation from Carvin that they can get hold of auto paints.

Black hardware, ebony fretboard, metallic orange, delicious.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.




and I already ordered a Boden OS......

Dammit.


----------



## Guamskyy

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.



Well shiiii-

I saw a nice OAF Headless 7 on ebay- might not get it now haha


----------



## MetalThrasher

OK! Now I'm sold on this! As soon as the 25.5 inch scale vader 7 becomes available I'm ordering one! My wallet is going to take a beating with all this great stuff coming out from NAMM. Now I just need to hear some good demo clips of the new 6505 mini!


----------



## Wildebeest

Oh my god these prices.


----------



## MJS

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.



Damn it... I don't have money for one anyway, so I liked it better when I didn't care because they weren't 25.5".


----------



## wannabguitarist

I won't be happy until I can get my damn short-scale headless 

Hopefully it actually ends up being the normal Carvin 6-string scale of 25in. Not a big difference in the end either way.


----------



## fortisursus

SnowfaLL said:


> By the way, for all of you who said "Im Out" when it was announced as a 27" only..
> 
> You have no excuse now.



But I want it now!!! I'm still going to pout until i get my lollipop.


----------



## ferret

https://www.facebook.com/kieselguitars/posts/1528076020809028

GUYZ

Direct confirmation for 25.5" scale from Jeff. Apparently right off the bat February 1!

PRICES: 

6 - $1199 
7 - $1249
8 - $1299

Chambering requires a top to be selected, so keep that in mind for your prices.


----------



## MetalThrasher

^ Awesome! As long as I can keep it reasonable price wise I think I'm going to pull the trigger on one! As much as I hate to do it I guess it's time to put up a guitar or two for sale soon.


----------



## MetalThrasher

Here's my dumb question about chambering as I'm clueless on this. What does chambering do other than weight reduction as far as tone goes?


----------



## Dabo Fett

at that price i could fully spec out a vader to my preferences for the same price as a strandberg os. that kind of decides it


----------



## celticelk

ferret said:


> https://www.facebook.com/kieselguitars/posts/1528076020809028
> 
> GUYZ
> 
> Direct confirmation for 25.5" scale from Jeff. Apparently right off the bat February 1!



That's the smart thing to do. Smarter thing would be to have said so during the reveal, rather than giving everyone a week to get lathered up about it.


----------



## ASoC

I was already sold on this, but Kiesel just keeps sweetening the deal (it felt so awkward typing Kiesel and not Carvin)


----------



## cubix

Now, I just have to see the 25.5" one because that can change the looks for better or for worse...


----------



## insaneshawnlane

ferret said:


> https://www.facebook.com/kieselguitars/posts/1528076020809028
> 
> GUYZ
> 
> Direct confirmation for 25.5" scale from Jeff. Apparently right off the bat February 1!
> 
> PRICES:
> 
> 6 - $1199
> 7 - $1249
> 8 - $1299
> 
> Chambering requires a top to be selected, so keep that in mind for your prices.




GOD. DAMMIT.

I'm kind of hoping that I don't get along with my incoming Boden OS just so I can return it and get a Vader


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Carvin/Kiesel ....ing rocks. The bitch fit heard 'round the world did not fall on deaf ears it seems. (I can't exactly fault people for not liking 27" scales though, so I'm totally not ragging on anyone.) I mean, I'm still going for a 27" 7 string, but the fact that they listened so well to their customers is a really cool thing that a lot of folks don't really do.

The prices are also pretty damn insane, and I was super stoked when I found out what they were. Following this thread is making me anxious as .... though. I want them to take my money from me right now, not in a week from now.


----------



## Jake

Need Tax return/Birthday/College Graduation money ASAP 

I intend on making this my college graduation present to myself so I've got some ideas floating around.


----------



## Hollowway

celticelk said:


> That's the smart thing to do. Smarter thing would be to have said so during the reveal, rather than giving everyone a week to get lathered up about it.



I don't think they had any immediate plans for doing the 25.5". First there was no mention of it. Then it was "soon." Then it was "right now." I bet it's not even programmed yet.

Which is actually really cool. But at the same time, with Jeff now able to do whatever he wants, I worry that we'll get into a situation where he takes on a bunch of orders, with a bunch of special (option 50) features that take a lot of time to hand make, and then get's bogged down and starts running really behind. Kind of the classic SSO luthier debacle. One of the reasons for Carvin's success has been efficiency and a limited standard palate of options. I just hope Jeff still has a not of "No"s left in his vocabulary, or things could get real squirrelly.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Hollowway said:


> I don't think they had any immediate plans for doing the 25.5". First there was no mention of it. Then it was "soon." Then it was "right now." I bet it's not even programmed yet.
> 
> Which is actually really cool. But at the same time, with Jeff now able to do whatever he wants, I worry that we'll get into a situation where he takes on a bunch of orders, with a bunch of special (option 50) features that take a lot of time to hand make, and then get's bogged down and starts running really behind. Kind of the classic SSO luthier debacle. One of the reasons for Carvin's success has been efficiency and a limited standard palate of options. I just hope Jeff still has a not of "No"s left in his vocabulary, or things could get real squirrelly.



Worse comes to worse, their orders will go from the typical "9 weeks" to something like "20 weeks" - you DO know you will never lose your money from Carvin, they are an actual business, not one shady guy who promises he can build guitars.


----------



## Hollowway

SnowfaLL said:


> Worse comes to worse, their orders will go from the typical "9 weeks" to something like "20 weeks" - you DO know you will never lose your money from Carvin, they are an actual business, not one shady guy who promises he can build guitars.



Yeah, I'm not super worried about it. Although, in my defense, Bernie was a company with a similar reputation and actual business. As was another big company who screwed me. 

But I definitely wouldn't hesitate to order from Carvin/Kiesel. I just don't want Jeff and the boys to do anything to tarnish the unbelievable reputation they have right now. It's almost like I was expecting them to say, "Carvin and Kiesel Guitars announce at NAMM 3 new headless models, the Jason Becker Numbers guitar, and a cure for cancer."


----------



## MetalThrasher

Carvin in my opinion has really stepped up to the plate right now. If a normal build takes 14 to even 20 weeks going forward I don't care. At least I know I'm getting a guitar!


----------



## ferret

My understanding is that the Kiesel Edition queue is a hard set "5 at a time", so I don't think he's getting in over his head there. However, last I heard he still personally does the "Kiesel treated" fretboards, and I don't know if there's any sort of limit on how many of those they'll take on.

P.S. ChrisH already has emails waiting from me. ORDERS ARE BEING PLACED, PEOPLE.


----------



## illimmigrant

jwade said:


> ...why are you somehow still speculating about 25.5" stuff when it says 27" in BRIGHT NEON GREEN?



 
Lol


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, with Mark involved I think they have all the experience and business acumen to pull off anything they desire.


----------



## MetalDaze

guambomb832 said:


> Well shiiii-
> 
> I saw a nice OAF Headless 7 on ebay- might not get it now haha



Multiscale


----------



## blaxquid

Wellllllllll, might just have to get one now.


----------



## cardinal

Pretty cool of Kiesel/Carvin to listen to the forum chatter (and maybe NAMM crowd chatter) and offer the 25.5" scale option. Great start to the new-ish business.


----------



## JoeyBTL

Damn, if they come out with a mixed scale Vader (and with how much they've been ontop of things, I'd be surprised if they aren't atleast working on it) then those $1900 Korean made Strandbergs won't be looking nearly as sweet anymore.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

tug-of-war between Carvin and Ibanez and my wallet is the rope. .....


----------



## Hollowway

There is no question they're planning on a mutiscale. And it will be available long before 2016.


----------



## HaloHat

celticelk said:


> That's the smart thing to do. Smarter thing would be to have said so during the reveal, rather than giving everyone a week to get lathered up about it.



The Kiesels seem pretty smart. People wished it and a week later wish granted. Did people really think they were not going to do a shorter scale on at least the six and seven?

If I could have all my wishes in a week, I would be typing this on my jet to Spain with my girl Jessica Alba


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

It probably helps that they already have the programming/jigs/whatever done for 25.5" 6 & 7 string fingerboards. It presumably won't be that big of an adjustment to make that scale available as an option. Aything longer and/or multiscale would take a bit more doing, so it's less surprising to not see any announcements there just yet.


----------



## pylyo

Oh man, Kiesel prices are insane. 

Why U not in EU?!


----------



## Mr_Metal_575

pylyo said:


> Oh man, Kiesel prices are insane.
> 
> Why U not in EU?!



Let's wait for the new Carvin international selling politics. If I'm not mistaken, they said that they would start to sell directly worlwide, without intermediates


----------



## Jack Secret

Have my build worked out for a 25.5 6 string tho I'm bowing more the economy that boutique this time (perhaps you would as well after 3 2000 plus USD V220's) & my only upgrades will be the painted satin neck & steel frets. Just deciding on solid color. Can't wait to try the new Kiesel passives.


----------



## lurgar

ferret said:


> Gentlemen, I'm officially back in the Vader game.
> 
> Opt 50 color... I've got a Mitsubishi Lancer in their "Rotor Glow" metallic orange. I already have confirmation from Carvin that they can get hold of auto paints.
> 
> Black hardware, ebony fretboard, metallic orange, delicious.



I've been wanting an orange guitar forever and this shade looks absolutely perfect. I am going to wait for the pics on your guitar and live vicariously through it until I can afford to do something like that myself.


----------



## celticelk

HaloHat said:


> The Kiesels seem pretty smart. People wished it and a week later wish granted. Did people really think they were not going to do a shorter scale on at least the six and seven?



Either Kiesel (the company - I'm not picking on Jeff here) knew that revealing the Vader only as a 27" baritone was going to cause substantial dissention in their customer base, or they didn't. If they did, and went ahead with it anyway, that indicates that somebody mismanaged the release marketing. If they didn't, then they didn't do their research. (Whether they rush-designed the standard-scale version in response to the uproar or always intended to reveal it before the Feb 1 date is immaterial - they did a huge social-media campaign based solely around the baritone version, with no hint of an imminent standard-scale version.) Given the widespread confusion about the Kiesel/Carvin split based on the information coming from the company, I'm inclined to believe that this was a marketing fail rather than a research fail. As someone who appreciates what Carvin/Kiesel has been doing for the ERG community and wants them to succeed, I don't think it's inappropriate to point out areas for future improvement.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

Europeans rejoice  gotta wait for some details but direct is coming back!


----------



## Jack Secret

celticelk said:


> Either Kiesel (the company - I'm not picking on Jeff here) knew that revealing the Vader only as a 27" baritone was going to cause substantial dissention in their customer base, or they didn't. If they did, and went ahead with it anyway, that indicates that somebody mismanaged the release marketing. If they didn't, then they didn't do their research. (Whether they rush-designed the standard-scale version in response to the uproar or always intended to reveal it before the Feb 1 date is immaterial - they did a huge social-media campaign based solely around the baritone version, with no hint of an imminent standard-scale version.) Given the widespread confusion about the Kiesel/Carvin split based on the information coming from the company, I'm inclined to believe that this was a marketing fail rather than a research fail. As someone who appreciates what Carvin/Kiesel has been doing for the ERG community and wants them to succeed, I don't think it's inappropriate to point out areas for future improvement.



Mike from Carvin said they were always doing 25.5 but Jeff didn't want to reveal it until NAMM.


----------



## Dabo Fett

anyone here have actual experience with the hipshot? i was wondering if theres enough travel in the tuner to be able to drop the lowest string from B to A. I assume so, since theres no fine tuners, but I guess my experience with floyds/edges just give me the impression theres only so much it can tune in either direction


----------



## MatthewK

Dabo Fett said:


> anyone here have actual experience with the hipshot? i was wondering if theres enough travel in the tuner to be able to drop the lowest string from B to A. I assume so, since theres no fine tuners, but I guess my experience with floyds/edges just give me the impression theres only so much it can tune in either direction



I've never used the Hipshot, but I assume it works the same as a Steinberger. Their range isn't limited like a floyd rose fine tuner.


----------



## cubix

It has to have full range, it's basically a tuner that looks like a microtuner... Otherwise how would You tune it to pitch? My biggest fear is the edges of the bridge - they are higher than the saddles and I wonder how comfortable that is and if it affects palm muting...


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Hollowway said:


> There is no question they're planning on a mutiscale. And it will be available long before 2016.


 
Dude.... Don't even fvck with my head right now... my wallet will need a funeral. Viking style.


----------



## Hollowway

Assuming that some of the big announcements they're planning on making this year are based on stuff that we've been wanting, but that is unavailable anywhere except a full custom, what do you guys think is on the docket for the year? Obviously multiscale, but anything else? Maybe real binding? Semihollow options on the different 7 and 8 string models?


----------



## celticelk

Hollowway said:


> Assuming that some of the big announcements they're planning on making this year are based on stuff that we've been wanting, but that is unavailable anywhere except a full custom, what do you guys think is on the docket for the year? Obviously multiscale, but anything else? Maybe real binding? Semihollow options on the different 7 and 8 string models?



Baritone-scale options on more models?


----------



## ferret

I would like to see them offer some form of real binding... including fretboard and headstock.

I wouldn't buy it myself, but it feels weird to me they lack that offering when a lot of production models from other vendors have it.


----------



## Enselmis

I ordered an HH2 the day they announced the Vader because I wasn't down with 27" scale. The dude I was talking to even mentioned the Vader but I told him I would have ordered it had it been normal scale. I'm pretty unimpressed that they wouldn't tell me over the phone that they were gonna announce a normal version in a week. That's incredibly frustrating. My hh2 has already been started so I guess that's that. Not sure how to feel now.


----------



## Electric Wizard

Enselmis said:


> I ordered an HH2 the day they announced the Vader because I wasn't down with 27" scale. The dude I was talking to even mentioned the Vader but I told him I would have ordered it had it been normal scale. I'm pretty unimpressed that they wouldn't tell me over the phone that they were gonna announce a normal version in a week. That's incredibly frustrating. My hh2 has already been started so I guess that's that. Not sure how to feel now.


Have you called and explained that? Maybe they'd finish the HH as an in-stock and let you order the Vader.


----------



## Enselmis

Electric Wizard said:


> Have you called and explained that? Maybe they'd finish the HH as an in-stock and let you order the Vader.



Unfortunately they don't open Weekends but I tried. I'm gonna call Monday.


----------



## ferret

I'm almost certain that Mike Jones will help sort you out. I'm not convinced Jeff really planned to do it so soon, and definitely not as soon as NAMM. I'm sure he had considered it, but wanted to see how it sold first and what impact it might have on the HH line first.

I think it's clear that they drastically underestimated the demand that would hit them for a 25.5" Vader.


----------



## Enselmis

I think I can confirm that cause on the phone, I asked specifically if a 25.5" was coming and I was told no, it was not in the works YET and would not be announced at NAMM because they were very busy.


----------



## MetalDaze

Hollowway said:


> There is no question they're planning on a mutiscale. And it will be available long before 2016.



Can you imagine the amount of bitching there will be about the fan size? 

Oh, I would totally buy 10 of them, but my special fingers require a 1.4" fan not 1.5". Too bad for you Carvin


----------



## Hollowway

MetalDaze said:


> Can you imagine the amount of bitching there will be about the fan size?
> 
> Oh, I would totally buy 10 of them, but my special fingers require a 1.4" fan not 1.5". Too bad for you Carvin



Oh, no question! If the vitriol with which the 27" Vader was received is any indication Jeff will need a thick skin for announcing any fan. Logically it would be a 25.5-27 or a 25.27, but even the half inch difference between the two is likely to create a whole bunch of consternation.

And then there's me. I can suck just as bad at any scale length.


----------



## SnowfaLL

MetalDaze said:


> Can you imagine the amount of bitching there will be about the fan size?
> 
> Oh, I would totally buy 10 of them, but my special fingers require a 1.4" fan not 1.5". Too bad for you Carvin



thats just it, I have no doubt Carvin could do a fanned fret, but finding the scale that would satisfy people instead of getting the 25.5 treatment this thread had... is next to impossible.

I personally like smaller fans, ala the Chris Letchford Strandberg, but I know im in the mass minority. A 25.5-27" is pretty drastic, and I doubt thatd sell well, but thats the only "logical" fanned fret option if you are doing one model to the masses, as people often played either a 25.5 or 27.

I dont know how they will do it. I also don't know how difficult it is to CNC program these things; as someone who worked in AutoCAD a tad in highschool it didnt seem TOO bad, but clearly its much more than meets the eye, otherwise you wouldnt hear of guitar luthiers completely failing when not being able to find reliable programmers while paying thousands of dollars for a CNC file.

If the process was "simple" enough that itd take less than 2 weeks per file, They could just make 2 or 3 diff fanned fret scale lengths and hope it satisfies 90% of the FF market. Just do market research on these forums, find every NGD in the past 3 years of fanned frets and record which scale pops up most frequently, and make the top 2 or 3. Of course, then theres the position of the perpendicular fret which people like in different spots too. It gets confusing with how much options there are to satisfy everyone.


----------



## celticelk

SnowfaLL said:


> tA 25.5-27" is pretty drastic, and I doubt thatd sell well, but thats the only "logical" fanned fret option if you are doing one model to the masses, as people often played either a 25.5 or 27.



That's probably the single most common fan range I've seen in the last four years, although straight 25-27 is pretty close. I hardly see how that can be considered "drastic".


----------



## ferret

Even if everyone agreed on 25-27" fan, the next drama would be over the perpendicular fret placement. Go read the thread on the Ibanez FF prototype


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

There's far more to it than just programming in CAD. They'll research it, program it, prototype, test it, etc. It's all very time consuming and labor intensive. I'm sure at Carvin's price point they have to be pretty careful about how and where they spend their time and money.


----------



## Hollowway

ferret said:


> Even if everyone agreed on 25-27" fan, the next drama would be over the perpendicular fret placement. Go read the thread on the Ibanez FF prototype



What are people saying over there? IIRC, they have it at the 12th fret, which means that the nut is the same angle as the bridge. The other option is around the 7th fret, meaning the 24th fret and first fret are the same angle. The latter makes more sense to me, but maybe the palm muting crowd likes the bridge at less of a rake?


----------



## ferret

The comment I recalled was that "9th" was the sweet point. So between me remembering that and your post, we've already mentioned 3 places.


----------



## SnowfaLL

at the 12th fret, it means your first fret has some serious slant to it (especially a 2" fan like 25-27) - Like ferret said, lots of people seem to think between 7th and 9th is the sweet point. It's hard to say what the best option is. The good thing about Ibanez releasing a FF this NAMM is Carvin/Jeff can read the feedback on it, and see how well it sells before making any decisions himself on how to proceed.


----------



## celticelk

SnowfaLL said:


> at the 12th fret, it means your first fret has some serious slant to it (especially a 2" fan like 25-27) - Like ferret said, lots of people seem to think between 7th and 9th is the sweet point. It's hard to say what the best option is. The good thing about Ibanez releasing a FF this NAMM is Carvin/Jeff can read the feedback on it, and see how well it sells before making any decisions himself on how to proceed.



Except for the part where the fanned-fret Ibanez guitars are prototypes, and there's no telling if or when they'll come to market.


----------



## SnowfaLL

celticelk said:


> Except for the part where the fanned-fret Ibanez guitars are prototypes, and there's no telling if or when they'll come to market.



I didn't see that it was a prototype. Either way, they get feedback from what people perceive as "wrong with it". Much like they had no idea there would be so many people clamoring 25.5" on the vaders.


----------



## ferret

IIRC, RG9 was a prototype at NAMM two years before market.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Actually it was less than one year, I believe.


----------



## ferret

Chambering for a V6 confirmed as $150. Would assume it's the same for V7 and V8.

Someone needs to learn math though, that thing costs $1609. It seems they didn't total in the FDL and BST options.


----------



## kevdes93

i noticed that when i saw that picture in the other carvin thread and thought the same thing


----------



## insaneshawnlane

ferret said:


> Chambering for a V6 confirmed as $150. Would assume it's the same for V7 and V8.
> 
> Someone needs to learn math though, that thing costs $1609. It seems they didn't total in the FDL and BST options.



And it also says 7 strings pickups.....on a 6'er

And the base price is $50 cheaper than what Jeff said... What the heck?


----------



## kevdes93

^ didnt even notice that...


----------



## ferret

Their new catalog has a ton of issues with misplaced descriptions for "options shown" too.. Dunno man, but I think the $150 chambering is a reliable number.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

ferret said:


> Their new catalog has a ton of issues with misplaced descriptions for "options shown" too.. Dunno man, but I think the $150 chambering is a reliable number.



It's the number I got from Chris H so I'd say it's a safe bet


----------



## HighGain510

Damn if 25.5" is ready from the get-go that complicates things further! Looks like I might be grabbing the 6'er first!


----------



## Miek

I'm really impressed by these prices


----------



## hardvalve

Miek said:


> I'm really impressed by these prices



True. I predict marital problems in my future due to this thread.


----------



## MatthewK

I was looking at the Carvin site and it says you get a $100 instant rebate, $100 in free options, and 50% off options and cases. I suck at math, but I think the misprint is that it says V6. Because the V7 is $1249. Comes down to $1149 with the $100 instant rebate. There are $560 worth of options. Divide that by 2 (50% of options) and it's $280. Then subtract $100 (for your $100 in free options) and you get $180. So... $1149 plus $180 equals $1329 just like it says in the picture.


If I'm not totally wrong then I'm WAY more excited than I was before.

Edit: I'm a Carvin noob. Apparently options are always 50% off. None of this makes sense to me anymore. I want to believe though...


----------



## troyguitar

I stopped following this thread after the 27" scale was announced, now I'm back on it. 25.5" headless 7 for $1200 or so is pretty awesome. I'll still probably be waiting for the trem version (or to at least hear measurements of the bridge to see if a strandberg trem would fit as a replacement) but it's nice to see a standard scale option.


----------



## Hollowway

hardvalve said:


> True. I predict marital problems in my future due to this thread.



Yeah, I REEEEAAALLY want a V8, but I have so many guitars, and more on order. I just don't need it at all, and I think my wife knows it!


----------



## Andromalia

That pricing is really nice, I'll follow what gives with their "we'll sell to EU direct too" prices when we see them.


----------



## Schaug

Andromalia said:


> That pricing is really nice, I'll follow what gives with their "we'll sell to EU direct too" prices when we see them.



Did they even mention something like that? Sorry I didn't catch that info along the way.


----------



## MetalThrasher

Ok, as long as I can sell one of my Carvins I'm buying one asap!


----------



## HighGain510

So for anyone who had a chance to play them at NAMM now that it's over, what's the story with the Hipshot headless hardtail bridge? Any issues with the bass side of the bridge jutting into your palm during mutes on the lower strings or was it a non-issue once you actually got to play one? That's really the only piece I'm concerned with still, beyond that I'm pretty much ready to go for a 25.5" Vader 6'er ASAP!  Just a little curious as to whether or not the bridge design is less than optimal from a playability standpoint as that lip on the bass and treble side seemed a bit high in the pics we have seen so far.

Comparing to the HH2's I've owned before (both X and hardtail versions), you can see the saddles all sit higher up than the bass and treble sides of the bridge:


HH2 J Custom Trem version:






HH2 J Custom Hardtail version:






vs

Vader Hipshot Headless Hardtail version:












Seems like the lowest saddle is below the lip of the sides of the bridge, just wondering if that's a hindrance/annoyance at all.  Anyone get to play these at NAMM, please feel free to chime in, it would be welcome info! Francesco, you had one in an 8 waiting for you... what's the scoop?!


----------



## stevo1

I'm curious to hear about how the bridge feels too ^^.


----------



## HighGain510

stevo1 said:


> I'm curious to hear about how the bridge feels too ^^.



It's definitely one of the things that concerned me when they first unveiled the bridge choice, I've never played the Hipshot Hardtail stuff before so it's a complete mystery to me.  I love the Hipshot hardware that I've had on other guitars just wondering what the thought process was on making the sides so tall compared to the intended string height of the saddles. That was one of the NICE features of the J Custom bridges on the HH models, SUPER comfy!  Hoping the new bridge is similar in performance, I really love the J Custom bridges on the Holdsworth models.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

It doesn't look terribly uncomfortable to me. It's not like an ash tray tele bridge where the lip extends into where you'd be picking. It might be a tad uncomfortable for some, but I can see myself getting along with it just fine.


----------



## Snarpaasi

Next innovation: Vader with a telly ash tray? ^^ Nope nope nope.

Headless guitars look retarded, but that's just me. After the big news I've been considering a dc700.


----------



## ASoC

HighGain510 said:


> It's definitely one of the things that concerned me when they first unveiled the bridge choice, I've never played the Hipshot Hardtail stuff before so it's a complete mystery to me.  I love the Hipshot hardware that I've had on other guitars just wondering what the thought process was on making the sides so tall compared to the intended string height of the saddles. That was one of the NICE features of the J Custom bridges on the HH models, SUPER comfy!  Hoping the new bridge is similar in performance, I really love the J Custom bridges on the Holdsworth models.



Well the normal Hipshot bridge is very nice, there's a reason it's kind of the standard hardtail on higher end guitars these days. I absolutely fell in love with it after I got my DC800.

Knowing that, I'm sure the headless hardware is going to be very high quality.


----------



## HighGain510

ASoC said:


> Well the normal Hipshot bridge is very nice, there's a reason it's kind of the standard hardtail on higher end guitars these days. I absolutely fell in love with it after I got my DC800.
> 
> Knowing that, I'm sure the headless hardware is going to be very high quality.



I'm not doubting the quality of Hipshot hardware, I love their stuff, I'm just wondering about that lip. You can see the Hipshot hardtail sides are lower than the saddles on their normal hardtail bridge too:







That's the only reason I'm concerned.


----------



## rockstarazuri

The bridge might feel awesome and stay in tune well, but that design looks awful to me..


----------



## cardinal

My right-hand technique must be different from y'all's. Occasionally, my right hand might rest on something like that (it does rest on the corner of the Gibraltar 7 I bridge occasionally), but it's hardly noticeable. 

I'm legitimately curious: when would your right hand really run into that? Do you palm mute that far back? Just rest your hand right there when picking?


----------



## cubix

Thing is I don't see a point in the bridge edges being higher than the saddles. That's just not necessary. Edges should only keep the saddles tight together so there is no side to side movement on the strings, but for that You can easily make it go to half the height of the saddles. And not so far forward... If You compare this bridge to the Strandberg bridge for example it seems miles behing in terms of design. Sure You can adjust the intonation "on the go" without loosening any strings but I prefer if the saddles are screwed down and have as little loose parts and springs that can and will rattle on You. For me the easiest bridge to control as far as palm muting goes (yes I palm mute in different places depending on the sound I'm after) is the good ol T-o-M bridge and the Strandberg with its directly accessible saddle/string points is closest to that design. Plus it has screw down saddles, unlike the T-o-M which can be a pain with all the loose parts on it...


----------



## illimmigrant

HighGain510 said:


> It's definitely one of the things that concerned me when they first unveiled the bridge choice, I've never played the Hipshot Hardtail stuff before so it's a complete mystery to me.  I love the Hipshot hardware that I've had on other guitars just wondering what the thought process was on making the sides so tall compared to the intended string height of the saddles. That was one of the NICE features of the J Custom bridges on the HH models, SUPER comfy!  Hoping the new bridge is similar in performance, I really love the J Custom bridges on the Holdsworth models.



Are you looking for something very customized? i.e. OPT 50 heavy?
If the options you want are all standard, the 10-day policy would allow you to try it out and get a good feel for it. If you really just can't get along with the bridge, you can return it.


----------



## loqtrall

High bridge-sides or not, I'm gonna have a hard time not ordering one when my income taxes get to me.


----------



## decreebass

The bridge is perfectly comfortable, y'all - no need to worry. I played it every day at NAMM for probably a total of an hour or so. No issues.


----------



## rockstarazuri

A lot of people are forgetting that these might be appealing to those living in the US but not overseas, with all the shipping etc.

And the return policy too, I think its only applicable in the US.


----------



## ferret

rockstarazuri said:


> A lot of people are forgetting that these might be appealing to those living in the US but not overseas, with all the shipping etc.
> 
> And the return policy too, I think its only applicable in the US.



While international sales will be more expensive than US for sure, also have to remember that Carvin is beginning to sell direct over seas and drop their dealer policy. That will hopefully help for the overseas quite a bit.


----------



## fortisursus

Gave Carvin a call today asking about the availability of the 25.5" scale. They took my info and said they'll be calling Feb 2. Seems things are still being sorted out and there is no guarantee that the 25.5" will be offered in the initial release. Guess we'll have to sit around and cross our fingers.


----------



## MF_Kitten

Alright, so as someone who has a guitar with this actual bridge, I can say I haven't had any issues with it at all. I had people come up to me and ask me about it at NAMM too, and all I can say is that I haven't noticed a damn thing at all. It just feels like a normal guitar bridge. Visually it looks like you'll have a big corner in the way, and the saddles are below the edge of the bridge, but honestly it doesn't affect the playing comfort for me at all. I palm mute a lot too, and I haven't noticed a damn thing!

I did have a long talk to the guys at Carvin AND the guys at Hipshot about improving and altering the design of this bridge to make restringing easier though. Hipshot guys said they would figure it out, but right now you might want to use needle nose pliers to pull the ball ends out. That's the only issue though.


----------



## Iamatlas

cardinal said:


> My right-hand technique must be different from y'all's. Occasionally, my right hand might rest on something like that (it does rest on the corner of the Gibraltar 7 I bridge occasionally), but it's hardly noticeable.
> 
> I'm legitimately curious: when would your right hand really run into that? Do you palm mute that far back? Just rest your hand right there when picking?



I think I'd be more concerned about the piece of steel jutting up next to the saddle stopping palm mutes from being as effective - Surely there would be some extra effort/pressure required to mute the top string as effectively as if it were level with/above the edge of the bridge baseplate.


----------



## Dabo Fett

well, i just got on the pre order list so time to pick out specs.

how much do you guys think the chambering will affect the overall tone? thinking probably will go with a swamp ash body


----------



## decreebass

Dabo Fett said:


> well, i just got on the pre order list so time to pick out specs.
> 
> how much do you guys think the chambering will affect the overall tone? thinking probably will go with a swamp ash body



Probably very little unless you had the EXACT same guitar spec'd twice: one with chambering and one solidbody - then you A/B'd them with the same exact riffs played exactly the same way through the exact same signal chain.

Don't feel like chambering is suddenly gonna make it sound like a Gibson hollowbody/archtop or even like an ES335; it doesn't. It still sounds heavy and full. When I was playing the blue flame one they had at NAMM, never once did I detect a 'hollow' sound. Again, though, I suppose there might be some tonal differences if I had two of the same exact guitar with that being the only difference.


----------



## Dabo Fett

decreebass said:


> Probably very little unless you had the EXACT same guitar spec'd twice: one with chambering and one solidbody - then you A/B'd them with the same exact riffs played exactly the same way through the exact same signal chain.
> 
> Don't feel like chambering is suddenly gonna make it sound like a Gibson hollowbody/archtop or even like an ES335; it doesn't. It still sounds heavy and full. When I was playing the blue flame one they had at NAMM, never once did I detect a 'hollow' sound. Again, though, I suppose there might be some tonal differences if I had two of the same exact guitar with that being the only difference.



Exactly what I wanted to hear. There was a time where I just wanted the biggest, heaviest piece of gear I could find. Now I'm only 26 and already have a bad back, so a 5-6lb guitar sounds perfect


----------



## HighGain510

illimmigrant said:


> Are you looking for something very customized? i.e. OPT 50 heavy?
> If the options you want are all standard, the 10-day policy would allow you to try it out and get a good feel for it. If you really just can't get along with the bridge, you can return it.



Nope it's likely to be fairly basic, nothing crazy unless the colored inlays are an Option 50 deal. Just didn't want to order and wait for it then be disappointed with the bridge when it gets here if it was going to be a problem.  



decreebass said:


> The bridge is perfectly comfortable, y'all - no need to worry. I played it every day at NAMM for probably a total of an hour or so. No issues.





MF_Kitten said:


> Alright, so as someone who has a guitar with this actual bridge, I can say I haven't had any issues with it at all. I had people come up to me and ask me about it at NAMM too, and all I can say is that I haven't noticed a damn thing at all. It just feels like a normal guitar bridge. Visually it looks like you'll have a big corner in the way, and the saddles are below the edge of the bridge, but honestly it doesn't affect the playing comfort for me at all. I palm mute a lot too, and I haven't noticed a damn thing!
> 
> I did have a long talk to the guys at Carvin AND the guys at Hipshot about improving and altering the design of this bridge to make restringing easier though. Hipshot guys said they would figure it out, but right now you might want to use needle nose pliers to pull the ball ends out. That's the only issue though.




NICE! Thanks guys! I was hoping for some first-hand knowledge from folks who played it. Mind is a little more at ease now!


----------



## Jake

I need the builder for this to open so I can figure out what the damage is gonna be 

just a few more days


----------



## stevo1

I'm going to be placing my order once my taxes get here too. Thinking about selling my dc7x to fund a good chunk of it, and have this be its replacement, as even though I love my dc7x, I'm not 100% happy about the finish choice.

I talked to chris hong about the oil finishes on ash, and they said they sorted it out. It is an extra cost to do an oil finish on ash, due to several different processes. 

Thinking about getting just an alder or ash back with a darker brown top wood like walnut or black limba. I want a gold logo on it too. I kind of dig a rustic look to natural finished guitars. I'll be getting a maple or zebra wood fretboard. The only thing left to decide for me is 7 or 8 string.


----------



## Jake

Will be keeping mine pretty simple. 

V6
Alder/maple-quilt top trans white
probably still going with ebony fb
stainless or gold frets
gold hardware
gold logo
white pickup bobbins

hoping to keep it under $1500...if not some options will probably change....


----------



## ferret

Jake said:


> Will be keeping mine pretty simple.
> 
> V6
> Alder/maple-quilt top trans white
> probably still going with ebony fb
> stainless or gold frets
> gold hardware
> gold logo
> white pickup bobbins
> 
> hoping to keep it under $1500...if not some options will probably change....



I think you're close to $1800 there... Trans-white is $200, on top of the $400 for quilt.


----------



## Jake

ferret said:


> I think you're close to $1800 there... Trans-white is $200, on top of the $400 for quilt.


True I forgot about that.

I mean there's always Kiesel Racing Green


----------



## stevo1

I'm also thinking of KR green. My other options that I'm thinking of is KR green top, oil back. Same specs otherwise besides top wood.
Going to Option 50 for a single bridge pup and. Volume knob too.


----------



## decreebass

Jake said:


> I need the builder for this to open so I can figure out what the damage is gonna be
> 
> just a few more days



As a reference, the Blue flame one thay had at NAMM (ash body, 5pc limba neck, zebrawood board, SS frets, flame aquaburst top, chambering, abalone, sof case, etc.) was a little over $2200.

I think these are gonna be reasonably priced. They did scare us all a little with the Kiesel Edition guitars and associated prices, but that's a separate thing from a Kiesel guitar.


----------



## Hollowway

I'm not sure if I'm going to pull the trigger on one of these soon (but will eventually), but I will say I'm leaning heavily toward just a duplicate of Francesco's orange one. But the primary question I have is whether you need a separate top wood for a top only paint job.

And anyone hear how much extra a drop top is? Jeff or one of the guys said (I think on the BBS) that it's an option. Not sure if they mentioned a price, though.

BUT, all of this is moot if I can get a DC700 version of the Numbers guitar. (Which is impossible, and I know that, but when I close my eyes I pretend that it's real. Does that make me weird? It feels weird to say it out loud. It feels even weirder that I'm saying it out loud and rather just typing it. Man, this post has taken a funky-ass surreal turn!)


----------



## stevo1

From what I've heard, they're not doing drop tops on these; yet anyways. I asked chris about it, because I was kind of iffy about the the top.


----------



## Hollowway

stevo1 said:


> From what I've heard, they're not doing drop tops on these; yet anyways. I asked chris about it, because I was kind of iffy about the the top.



Oh? Chris said no, huh? Hmm. Yeah, as much as I like seeing back wood coming through, this is already so busy on the butt end that I kinda want a drop top. Otherwise I'll just do solid color on top.


----------



## stevo1

They might've changed positions on that since then, and would be willing to do it for a fee, I don't know. Haha. I talked to chris about it a couple of weeks ago, and that might've changed since then. I would ask him about it if you were interested.


----------



## rapterr15

Sorry, but would someone mind explaining what a drop top is? I've heard it thrown around in this thread, but before this the only other time I had heard the term was in reference to the Tom Anderson drop-top, but I just assumed that was the model name. Does that just mean no forearm cutaway, thus having the maple top cover the entire top of the guitar?


----------



## Hollowway

rapterr15 said:


> Sorry, but would someone mind explaining what a drop top is? I've heard it thrown around in this thread, but before this the only other time I had heard the term was in reference to the Tom Anderson drop-top, but I just assumed that was the model name. Does that just mean no forearm cutaway, thus having the maple top cover the entire top of the guitar?



Yeah, it just means that you have a consistent thickness top (like a quarter inch) that gets bent over the forearm contour on the body. The other way of preventing the body wood from showing through is to put a super thick top on, then cut the forearm bevel. That way it doesn't cut all the way through into the layer below (the body wood).


----------



## decreebass

Thanks Hollowway - I was wondering that myself


----------



## MrHelloGuitar

I here they're doing some new open pore stain finishing options. 

Will inquire over the phone when I order mine. 

Looks like it'll be something along the lines of an ash winged 5pc maple/walnut neck thru 7 string in nightburst. 
With a zebrawood (maybe ebony?) fretboard. Abalone inlays, painted satin finish back of neck. Yummy.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I got an estimate of around 1600 for a mostly stock v7. That's after the $100 off in options, a case, and a quilted top. My biggest hang up is deciding on night burst or just purple.


----------



## HighGain510

Right now I'm leaning towards the following:

Vader 6
Alder Body/Maple Neck
Chambered Body Option
Kiesel Racing Green Satin Matte Finish on body and neck
25.5" scale Option
20" radius
Birdseye Maple fretboard
Evo Gold Jumbo fretwire
Gold Plated Carvin logo (that's right, I'm a rebel. )
Dunlop Straplocks
Sending in own strings for setup 

I still need to check on green dot inlays on fretboard face? I saw green side dots and green blocks but haven't seen if fretboard face dot inlays were a go and if they were a charge and/or an Opt. 50 deal. If they're option 50 I'll pass since these are new I don't want to get locked into voiding the 10 day window in case I don't jive with the model, but I think the matching green inlays against the BEM fretboard would look BADASS and really tie the guitar together.  STOKED! I sent Chris an email during NAMM and didn't hear back but I'm guessing he's likely swamped with questions/requests still so not surprised there, I'll follow up and see what the deal is so I know whether or not I'll be pulling the trigger on 2/2.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Just FYI, in order to get the chambered option you have to have a top.


----------



## HighGain510

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> Just FYI, in order to get the chambered option you have to have a top.



Yeah I saw that, wasn't sure if that means you have to get a maple top or if they can just top it with alder when they cut it open? Like I said, I asked Chris what it will cost to get that order built so hopefully he factors all that into the deal.


----------



## ferret

HighGain 

Here's mine:

Vader 6
Alder Body/Maple Neck
Candy Tangerine (Opt 50) gloss
25.5" scale Option
20" radius
Ebony no-streak fretboard
Stainless Steel Jumbo fretwire
Black Carvin logo
Dunlop Straplocks
Sending in own strings for setup too 

Not all option 50s void the 10-day return now, some just carry a restocking fee instead.


----------



## HighGain510

ferret said:


> HighGain
> 
> Here's mine:
> 
> Vader 6
> Alder Body/Maple Neck
> Candy Tangerine (Opt 50) gloss
> 25.5" scale Option
> 20" radius
> Ebony no-streak fretboard
> Stainless Steel Jumbo fretwire
> Black Carvin logo
> Dunlop Straplocks
> Sending in own strings for setup too
> 
> Not all option 50s void the 10-day return now, some just carry a restocking fee instead.



Noice, that should be sick! I really want the chambered body option as the HH just feels perfect with that extra reverberation going on from hollowing out the body a bit. The thing I love about the Vader more compared to the HH is that the body shape is larger so it looks a little bit less like I'm playing a toy guitar.  I'm not a huge guy but even on me the HH model looks small!  Love how they play and sound (and even look honestly), just think the shape being so small is a bit odd-looking at times, so the Vader body size should fix that!  Can't wait to see these all start to roll out!


----------



## kevdes93

speccing this out is going to be very difficult for me but i think itll either be....

v7 

27" scale
swamp ash body
swamp ash top w/ trans black satin finish
rear+sides natural clear
5pc walnut/mahogany neck
flamed maple FB
20"radius
black hardware
stainless frets

orrr....

v7
27" scale
walnut body/ oil finish over everything
no top wood, let neck show through
flamed maple neck
flamed maple FB
20" radius
stainless frets

i really want to get a solid afternoon in with the builder though first


----------



## stevo1

Thinking back, they might not be able to do an oil finish on the top, because of the logo having to be clear coated, which sits on the top..


----------



## kevdes93

didnt think of that ^ ill just go satin then, no biggie


----------



## gunshow86de

I don't know if it's already been mentioned (and there's no way I'm searching 26 pages ), but in one of the video interviews Jeff mentioned that all the Vaders will have the carbon-fiber reinforcement rods in the neck.


----------



## HighGain510

gunshow86de said:


> I don't know if it's already been mentioned (and there's no way I'm searching 26 pages ), but in one of the video interviews Jeff mentioned that all the Vaders will have the carbon-fiber reinforcement rods in the neck.



Unless they made a change, I'm pretty sure Carvin had been doing that for years. They just made a point of calling it out in the video.  I don't think that's something "new" per se.


----------



## ferret

For any 27" neck they have the reinforcement, yes.


----------



## sartorious

So, would there be any additional benefit to having a 5-piece neck on a 27" scale? Or does that become redundant with carbon fiber reinforcement?


----------



## HighGain510

gunshow86de said:


> I don't know if it's already been mentioned (and there's no way I'm searching 26 pages ), but in one of the video interviews Jeff mentioned that all the Vaders will have the carbon-fiber reinforcement rods in the neck.





HighGain510 said:


> Unless they made a change, I'm pretty sure Carvin had been doing that for years. They just made a point of calling it out in the video.  I don't think that's something "new" per se.





ferret said:


> For any 27" neck they have the reinforcement, yes.



Not even just for 27" scale though, they've always had reinforcement rods. Here's a screen grab of the catalog from 1995 where they did dual steel reinforcement rods in the necks:







Later on they changed to carbon fiber reinforcement rods:






Unless they did away with them over the last 10 years and just decided to start using them again, it's not new for Carvin and AFAIK they've been doing it that way for quite some time now. 



sartorious said:


> So, would there be any additional benefit to having a 5-piece neck on a 27" scale? Or does that become redundant with carbon fiber reinforcement?



Aesthetics I guess?  As far as stability adding the extra wood is never a bad thing for stability as long as all the wood is seasoned properly, although properly seasoned neck blanks would likely be fine without anything but the graphite reinforcement rods in there.


----------



## stevo1

Ok, confirmed with Chris that they can't do oil finishes on these. Probably going to go with KR green.


----------



## gunshow86de

HighGain510 said:


> Unless they made a change, I'm pretty sure Carvin had been doing that for years. They just made a point of calling it out in the video.  I don't think that's something "new" per se.



Hmm, I had no idea. You'd think they'd advertise it more. It's a really nice feature. They don't even have it on the current website.


----------



## HaloHat

Actually some of the models had the reinforcement rod removed, at least for a while. I remember it being discussed at the Carvin forum some time ago. I do not recall for sure which models, I think possibly the DC127/135/145 etc though as I said I am not sure which models in total or if they are still without the reinforcement rods today.

I'm sure you can get your oil top but then it sounds like you would have to go with the Kiesel "Edition" model and its higher price. KRG sounds good ha. I guess the Kiesel's are all decal logos at this time? Carvin has the metal logos in gold and soon in silver. They have mentioned real inlaid MOP logos soon as well.

I'm sure its just me but I kind of feel decal logos look tacky on otherwise custom guitars.


----------



## SnowfaLL

gunshow86de said:


> Hmm, I had no idea. You'd think they'd advertise it more. It's a really nice feature. They don't even have it on the current website.



They did get rid of it for a few years (I wanna say mid 2000s), and now its only on the 27" scale guitars and basses. I know cause I made sure to ask about it in the ST300, CT624 and DC727 when I was deciding which to get, but it was not available in any of those (2013-2014) even as an opt 50. They claim their necks are stable enough without them and they only use it with longer scale guitars for that extra bit but obviously I'd feel safer with them. Probably why I'd get the 27" vader over 25.5"


----------



## niclebel

I pre-oredered my Vader today. Heas up to everyone, tung oil is NOT available as a finish for the Vader, because the logo is situated on the top.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Just got done placing my pre-order too. Prices are flippin' legit for what you get. My stupid ass is so impatient, but I'm stoked to know it'll be on it's way in the nearish future. Mine was relatively stock save for a couple things.

As it were, it will be 7 strings, have a burl top with night burst finish, stainless jumbo frets, ebony fret board with no top inlays. It was right around $1700 in the end. Not too shabby for something made in the USA with a spiffy top, stainless frets, and the fact that it's a headless. Super stoked to own my first Carvin/Kiesel, and these next few months can't pass quick enough.


----------



## metalstrike

God, I wish Carvin offered Rosewood necks, I'd order one on a Vader today. That will probably never happen though so I'll have to order one soon anyway!


----------



## Jake

metalstrike said:


> God, I wish Carvin offered Rosewood necks, I'd order one on a Vader today. That will probably never happen though so I'll have to order one soon anyway!


It has happened though  (With customer supplied wood of course but still)

Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - CT-6 Faded denim flame, rosewood neck

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/126151-carvin-does-rosewood-neck.html


----------



## ferret

Extra 1-2 weeks of build time because 25.5" scale is still being programmed into the CNC. Important note for anyone interested: Candy Tangerine is a metallic opt50 color but does NOT void the 10-day return. It carries a $200 restocking fee however.


----------



## MetalThrasher

I'll be ordering one soon! I think mine is going to be a barebones depending on price with options. I'm thinking either an orange with white edges or black limba body. Def going for the 25.5 scale. Anyone hear about the new pickup options? I heard that the new Kiesel pickups come in regular and high output. I wanna try the high output version!


----------



## HaloHat

metalstrike said:


> God, I wish Carvin offered Rosewood necks, I'd order one on a Vader today. That will probably never happen though so I'll have to order one soon anyway!



You can use their "Customer Provided Wood" option and send them the rosewood for your neck. ChrisH. here at the forum can assist you I'm sure.

My two DC7X's, one with a Wenge/Limba neck and one with a Bloodwood neck were both done by Carvin salesperson Steve Schisler [[email protected]] and went totally smooth. He works with special requests really well.

It does make the guitar "non-returnable" and other conditions apply but if you want a Rosewood neck Vader it probably can be done. If you need a good wood broker contact, PM me and I'll give you the info on a really good place for guitar wood...

I'm hoping for a trem version V7 but I will order a non-trem V7 anyways if it looks like the trem version is not going to happen. 27" scale for me.


----------



## JustFlipACoin

So with Tung-Oil not being an option, does anyone here have any experience with their clear satin finish? I'm not too keen on gloss finishes.


----------



## decreebass

JustFlipACoin said:


> So with Tung-Oil not being an option, does anyone here have any experience with their clear satin finish? I'm not too keen on gloss finishes.



It looks good, but it will start to shine in high traffic areas (like any satin finish). When they agreed to re-finish my pink DC800 I requested the gloss finish since originally it had been satin; the glossy areas started to grate on me a little so I figured if I get it gloss to start out with, I cut out the middle man.


----------



## stevo1

JustFlipACoin said:


> So with Tung-Oil not being an option, does anyone here have any experience with their clear satin finish? I'm not too keen on gloss finishes.



I have experience with their older style of satin finishes. They updated the process a few months ago, and the satin finishes are way thinner. The old process made the satin finishes thicker than the gloss finishes for some reason..

This is all info I got from Chris H. Though!
They seem pretty durable too. The finish I have doesn't really show any glossing yet, and I play mine daily. But it is the older style satin, so keep that in mind.


----------



## HighGain510

JustFlipACoin said:


> So with Tung-Oil not being an option, does anyone here have any experience with their clear satin finish? I'm not too keen on gloss finishes.



I had two HH models with the satin clear and they both stayed quite satin-y in the areas that would receive the most brushing, and they were also both used prior to owning them too. Seems like the satin holds up pretty well, IMHO.  I love how a top pops with a gloss clearcoat but honestly if I went solid color, I'd be going satin again (which is likely what I'm doing for my order).


----------



## metalstrike

HaloHat said:


> You can use their "Customer Provided Wood" option and send them the rosewood for your neck. ChrisH. here at the forum can assist you I'm sure.
> 
> My two DC7X's, one with a Wenge/Limba neck and one with a Bloodwood neck were both done by Carvin salesperson Steve Schisler [[email protected]] and went totally smooth. He works with special requests really well.
> 
> It does make the guitar "non-returnable" and other conditions apply but if you want a Rosewood neck Vader it probably can be done. If you need a good wood broker contact, PM me and I'll give you the info on a really good place for guitar wood...
> 
> I'm hoping for a trem version V7 but I will order a non-trem V7 anyways if it looks like the trem version is not going to happen. 27" scale for me.





Jake said:


> It has happened though  (With customer supplied wood of course but still)
> 
> Carvin.com BBS :: View topic - CT-6 Faded denim flame, rosewood neck
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/126151-carvin-does-rosewood-neck.html




I did not know that was an option, thanks guys!


----------



## crystallake

Totally stupid question. Can you send you're own pickups in with the order? I have a spare Naz/Sent set, and it would save me some loot just to have them installed.


----------



## ferret

Yes, but it has a bearing on the 10-day return policy. I do not know if it voids it or carries a restocking fee though. Call them up and they can confirm that those will fit, though I'm pretty sure any SD pickup fits. They're going to charge you to do it though so might not be saving any cash, especially considering the new Kiesel pickups are part of the base price, you won't get a discount for not getting them.


----------



## crystallake

Appreciate it! I'll call when I'm ready and find out for sure.


----------



## stevo1

There's also an upcharge for it too. You'd probably save more money having it done after you get the guitar. It's $100 if I remember correctly.


----------



## celticelk

stevo1 said:


> There's also an upcharge for it too. You'd probably save more money having it done after you get the guitar. It's $100 if I remember correctly.



And they won't take covered pickups, or at least that was stipulated when I asked about this a while back.


----------



## crystallake

Thanks! I might as well try the stock ones first.


----------



## spudmunkey

A couple notes:
Carvin DID do away with reinforcement rods for a number of years, once they went with a heavier-duty truss rod. Since then, they brought them back for all basses, and all guitars with a scale longer than 25.5" They used to be stainless steel, then graphite, but they are carbon fiber now.

You may want to check again on the tung oil finish availability on the Vader. I thought it was available on the Holdsworth headless, but only with select logos since some needed to be under a finish. For example, I thought Gold would be OK with tung. Hmm...wait...this is a Kiesel, so maybe there isn't a gold logo like there is for Carvin...I mean, I saw that there was, but it looked more like a decal than the current 3D-looking on...hmm...

I do love love love the satin on the neck of my CS6. After about 4 years, it's got a bit of a shine to it, but nothing like a gloss finish, or even nothing like the satin finish I have on an old Cort acoustic, or my 3-month-old Chinese knock-off Taylor that's already got a shine on the neck.

edit: Sure 'nuff/ Here is a Holdsworth Headless on Carvin's facebook photos today. So...they can do tung, but there's no logo on this one. Maybe it's being shipped without a logo, or perhaps they have yet to apply the gold logo? Hmm... 

Edit #2: Mike Joes over at Carvin just confirmed on the BBS: This one got a gold Logo. So, there's at least hope for an all-tung Vader someday.


----------



## spudmunkey

stevo1 said:


> From what I've heard, they're not doing drop tops on these; yet anyways. I asked chris about it, because I was kind of iffy about the the top.



I asked the same question on facebook. Because the forearm contour is steeper than normal, and because the distance it has to make the drop because the body is smaller, the tops just don't like being bent so steeply so it's NOT an option.

Someone else suggested getting a solid flamed-maple body (they have done it before on SH550/SH575, CTs...heck, they've done a solid Burled maple body on a bolt before), and that is actually a really great idea. Not cheap, I'm sure, but a great idea.


----------



## decreebass

crystallake said:


> Thanks! I might as well try the stock ones first.



You won't be disappointed.


----------



## spudmunkey

MrHelloGuitar said:


> I here they're doing some new open pore stain finishing options.
> 
> Will inquire over the phone when I order mine.
> 
> Looks like it'll be something along the lines of an ash winged 5pc maple/walnut neck thru 7 string in nightburst.
> With a zebrawood (maybe ebony?) fretboard. Abalone inlays, painted satin finish back of neck. Yummy.



There is mention of a PB bass with an open-pore black (almost opaque) finish on an ash body hanging overhead in one of the NAMM videos, and there is a better photo of a previous example somewhere on the CarvinBBS. Looks killer with a glossy black pickguard.


----------



## spudmunkey

Dabo Fett said:


> well, i just got on the pre order list so time to pick out specs.
> 
> how much do you guys think the chambering will affect the overall tone? thinking probably will go with a swamp ash body



Think about it this way...the body is already slightly smaller than a normal body. There is also routes under each pickup, a larger route for the control cavity, and not much left at the top edge or the forearm contour as far as body thickness, so I wouldn't expect much material to be removed from these areas, if at all. What does that leave in terms of area that can be chambered? Not much. That said, they got a 8-string 27" scale down below 6lbs, so it much have helped SOME, even if it's just 1/4lb.


----------



## stevo1

spudmunkey said:


> There is mention of a PB bass with an open-pore black (almost opaque) finish on an ash body hanging overhead in one of the NAMM videos, and there is a better photo of a previous example somewhere on the CarvinBBS. Looks killer with a glossy black pickguard.



For anyone who's interested in this, just a heads up; they can't do the open pore finish on neck through's yet sadly.


----------



## ferret

colossal said:


> Ok, just got off the phone with Steve:
> 
> 1) The custom Vader headpiece WILL accept double-ball strings, however, double-ball is only available in 25.5" scale length. So if you opt for a 27", then standard single-ball end strings are the way to go.
> 
> 2) Regarding the forearm cut. Figured wood tops will NOT cover the contour. The forearm cut is too aggressive to allow the top to be dropped completely down to the edge. Figured tops will therefore look like the pre-production NAMM Vader model; with the lower corner "missing" over the contour. If seeing the body wood on the forearm contour is not your thing, a solid color is the alternative.



From my V6 waiting room thread over on CarvinBBS. Colossal called in with some questions and got some answers for us. Vader WILL support both single and double ball strings... though it appears there are no 27" double ball string sets on the market right now.


----------



## asher

I seem to have missed when they announced there would be a 25.5" option... was it kind of a last minute add? Or did it come with the formal release and somehow I didn't see it?


----------



## ferret

It came after a wall of public demand slammed them down. ;P

I believe they announced it first day of NAMM. They did NOT intend to announce it or release it so soon. They're still doing the CNC for it, so if you order one now there's an extra 1-2 weeks over normal build time.


----------



## asher

ferret said:


> It came after a wall of public demand slammed them down. ;P
> 
> I believe they announced it first day of NAMM. They did NOT intend to announce it or release it so soon. They're still doing the CNC for it, so if you order one now there's an extra 1-2 weeks over normal build time.



Makes sense. I was pretty surprised they released it only as a 27" first, because it does tick different boxes than the Holdsworth...

Hopefully word went out to some of the guys here who stopped paying attention after 27" only was said!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Most of the people who violently opposed it have already mentioned hearing about it. It was sort of only quietly mentioned though.


----------



## BigViolin

I've followed pretty closely so forgive me if I missed it but have there been any pics of what the chambering looks like under the tops. I'm guessing it will be similar to the Holdsworths but would love to see how they are doing it.


----------



## asher

Chokey Chicken said:


> Most of the people who violently opposed it have already mentioned hearing about it. It was sort of only quietly mentioned though.



I gave up following any of the three threads after we saw the launch pictures, because I was never going to buy one anyway


----------



## Adam Of Angels

How have some of you guys ordered these? I don't see anything letting me do so on their website, and I can't seem to find that info in this thread.


----------



## technomancer

Adam Of Angels said:


> How have some of you guys ordered these? I don't see anything letting me do so on their website, and I can't seem to find that info in this thread.



They've called in or emailed one of the Carvin sales reps like Chris Hong.


----------



## ferret

Preorder, really. But it's in the system. 

Word is the webpage updates go live Feb 1st, and (non-preorder) call-in orders Feb 2nd when they open.


----------



## ferret

Short Vader 7 with Kiesel pickups demo in this one by Carvin's head tech Albert.


----------



## HumanFuseBen

Played on a couple Vader's at NAMM, they felt really comfy! Body balanced nicely, neck profile was nice and flat on the back... nothing bad to say about it!


----------



## fortisursus

To pre order just call them. They take your name/info and as ferret mentioned they will call you on the february 2nd.


----------



## HaloHat

metalstrike said:


> I did not know that was an option, thanks guys!



Hey metalstrike I see you are in San Diego. The wood broker I use [excellent!] is in Carlsbad. You could drive over and pick the wood out yourself you lucky dog! No shipping to pay either! 

Kenny and Marty Talcove
Tropical Exotic Hardwoods
2270-C Camino Vida Roble
Carlsbad, CA 92011
760.268.1080
*Tropical Exotic Hardwoods

welcome to the forum spud  
*


----------



## hardvalve

fortisursus said:


> To pre order just call them. They take your name/info and as ferret mentioned they will call you on the february 2nd.



Do you pay the full amount up front, or part on order, and part on delivery?


----------



## HighGain510

HumanFuseBen said:


> Played on a couple Vader's at NAMM, they felt really comfy! Body balanced nicely, neck profile was nice and flat on the back... nothing bad to say about it!



Thanks Ben! I trust you and your opinion on guitars so that is super helpful bro!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

hardvalve said:


> Do you pay the full amount up front, or part on order, and part on delivery?



You have the choice of paying a 20% deposit and the rest on completion, or paying up front I believe.


----------



## ferret

Chokey is correct. 20% deposit is required before the build will start. I do not know if they allow you to place an order but not deposit till a later date. (I'd suspect not)


----------



## HaloHat

ferret said:


> Chokey is correct. 20% deposit is required before the build will start. I do not know if they allow you to place an order but not deposit till a later date. (I'd suspect not)



I may be incorrect, I don't work at Carvin/Kiesel, but I think the 20% down is only for "stock" or non-op50 builds. If doing a non-stock, op50 type order I believe Carvin/Kiesel requires payment in full at order time. 

Many years ago, like at least 5 years ago, I was offered 50% down on an op50 build however the last two guitars I had built from Carvin, both within the last year [two DC7X's] requred payment in full up front. Wasn't a issue just FYI and of course call your Carvin/Kiesel salesperson to make sure.


----------



## ferret

No, you're right. Going "off-builder" can increase the deposit. Jeff had me do around 33% on my SCB6, which had 3PB on it and he picked the top himself.

But... on the flip side... my opt-50 color on Vader 6 was still 20% deposit.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Also, you can apparently make the final payment whenever you want, not just when it's completed, which is the method I'm doing.


----------



## hardvalve

HaloHat said:


> I may be incorrect, I don't work at Carvin/Kiesel, but I think the 20% down is only for "stock" or non-op50 builds. If doing a non-stock, op50 type order I believe Carvin/Kiesel requires payment in full at order time.
> 
> Many years ago, like at least 5 years ago, I was offered 50% down on an op50 build however the last two guitars I had built from Carvin, both within the last year [two DC7X's] requred payment in full up front. Wasn't a issue just FYI and of course call your Carvin/Kiesel salesperson to make sure.



Okay, thanks. Either way, just have to figure out to hide more from the wife now, or later.....


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

It's been a while since I have posted on this forum. 

HNGGNNNGNGH glad this was my first post in a bit. 


I need....

ALL OF THIS STOOF.


----------



## SnowfaLL

My opt 50 color ST300T (also opt 50 with one piece quilt top, direct mount pickups) was also a higher percentage, if I recall around 50% minimum. I ended up paying full because I saw the CAD dropping fast, like 3 cents within a month so I decided to not risk letting it run another 4 months. If I order another Carvin this year, I'll be sure to do the same.


----------



## The Griffinator

The builder is up for the Vader. There goes my afternoon...


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Spec'd out my Vader 8 and I got the crazy idea of stealing the color scheme from an Ibanez Lock Ness Jem. BRB finding parts and adding costs...


----------



## thrsher

so it says the 6/7 string versions are available at 25.5 scale


----------



## Demiurge

The Griffinator said:


> The builder is up for the Vader. There goes my afternoon...



I tried to go conservative on a 7 and came out around $2k. Time to start saving.


----------



## celticelk

thrsher said:


> so it says the 6/7 string versions are available at 25.5 scale



Guess that answers the question about whether everyone's been following that discussion.


----------



## Negav

Where is the builder? Can anyone provide a link? I tried looking for it to no luck


----------



## Jake

CarvinGuitars.com: Kiesel USA Custom Shop Guitars

here ya go!


----------



## Negav

Jake said:


> CarvinGuitars.com: Kiesel USA Custom Shop Guitars
> 
> here ya go!



Keeps redirecting me to the Carvinworld page  YET I found out they have dealers here where I live


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

I see you're in Puerto Rico. Find a proxy server so their website thinks you're coming from NA.


----------



## Negav

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I see you're in Puerto Rico. Find a proxy server so their website thinks you're coming from NA.



WORKED!!!!! Thanks man!


----------



## Electric Wizard

Wait, Carvin doesn't consider Puerto Rico part of the US? Puerto Ricans need a proxy server to seem like they're in North America? 

That's weird. Welp, back to the builder.


----------



## ferret

Use the builder on the US Page (If you can get it) to figure out your order, then call in tomorrow and ask for Chris to see if he can take your international number over the phone.

Last update I saw, the IP block for the US Carvin webpage would be removed in April. I think they're still sorting out just which regions might still have a dealer... I've heard the Asian market is out of luck and will be dealer still.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Puerto Rico is a US territory, which is even further detached than hawaii and Alaska which are lucky if they qualify for being part of the US when it comes to logistics, despite being states.


----------



## mnemonic

It took some creative proxy use, but I managed to spec out what I would want in a vader 7, and it comes out a bit over $1,500. If us people in Europe would just pay that plus shipping now, that's a pretty damn reasonable price. 

Edit-forgot about import taxes, goddammit.


----------



## MetalThrasher

I've been playing around with the builder for a Vader 7 and I'm going to pull the trigger soon! I thought I heard that the Kiesel pickups are going to be available in two versions a regular output and a high output version but I do not see this in the builder. Can anyone chime in and tell me if the Kiesel pickups will be available in two versions as I'm interested in a high output pickup if available. As soon as one of my guitars sells I'm buying. Also, I'm going for the 25.5 inch scale model and was curious about strings. I heard that the 25.5 scale will take double ball end strings. Where can I buy double ball end strings as I never had a headless before.


----------



## celticelk

MetalThrasher said:


> Also, I'm going for the 25.5 inch scale model and was curious about strings. I heard that the 25.5 scale will take double ball end strings. Where can I buy double ball end strings as I never had a headless before.



Don't bother. Nobody makes double-ball strings in the proper gauge for your 7th string, even if you tune to B standard and like floppy strings. The heaviest you'll be able to find is a 46 or so.


----------



## ferret

I have confirmation that the stock Kiesels are the "medium output" version. My email asking if the higher output version was available has not been answered yet.


----------



## BigViolin

celticelk said:


> Don't bother. Nobody makes double-ball strings in the proper gauge for your 7th string, even if you tune to B standard and like floppy strings. The heaviest you'll be able to find is a 46 or so.



I'd bother. Running six double balls and adding the seventh beats pinch clamping all seven IMO. It's just a superior design.


----------



## hardvalve

27" 6 string

Black Limba Neck and body

Ebony Fretboard, no streaks

Medium jumbo SS

Jet Black, matte finish

Abalone dot inlays, hate the diamond inlays, may just go with side dots instead

Thinking about 14" radius, as 20" is really flat for my tastes

Also picked black logo, as I would prefer it be invisible. Anybody know if this is how it will turn out?

I wish I could order without the pickups, since I have a brand new EMG 57/66 setup with pots and all electronics. Anybody done this?

I prefer plain and simple, no flame, quilt top, insane paint jobs, etc. black as my soul.

How much of an up charge would it be to get heavier strings tuned to c#. 46-10 on that scale would not work well. I also never play in standard. Always dropped 1 - 1 1/2 steps down. 

Owned Carvins, but always used. Never ordered from them. Any pointers will be helpful.


----------



## ferret

On that last part, you can send in your own strings and request a tuning for setup. No charge. I requested mine be setup in Drop C.


----------



## decreebass

hardvalve said:


> Also picked black logo, as I would prefer it be invisible. Anybody know if this is how it will turn out?


 
As I recall they won't do that; something about a "nameless" guitar... There was a black DC800 (I think that was the model) a while back that didn't have a logo - or it was photoshopped out - OR it was black... 

Point of my ramblings is this; I don't think they'll do that since the logo needs to be on the guitar. I'm not too sure if anyone has wanted to order a Carvin with a "no logo" option but obviously if they won't do certain desirable finishes on the Vader because it won't work with the logo, it's pretty serious 

I guess call and ask to be sure, but I wouldn't count on having no logo or an "invisible" logo.


----------



## ferret

The only answer is a black drop shadow.


----------



## gunshow86de

BigViolin said:


> I'd bother. Running six double balls and adding the seventh beats pinch clamping all seven IMO. It's just a superior design.



Yup, that's my plan. 

To the guy asking where to buy, Just Strings has D'addario, GHS and LaBella. You can get the Steinberger brand double-balls from Sweetwater too.

Steinberger Double Ball Guitar Strings

http://www.sweetwater.com/c926--Ele...JmYWNldCI6eyJCcmFuZCI6WyJTdGVpbmJlcmdlciJdfX0


----------



## HighGain510

Did anyone get a pic of the sign for that green DC800 with the green acrylic block inlays? I'm curious what those cost exactly as I wouldn't mind those on an 8 since the wider fretboard throws me off a bit and I'm still planning to order a Vader 8.  Almost wish I could have grabbed that green NAMM DC800, tbh!


----------



## leonardo7

So whats the upcharge for a chambered body and do we know how chambered it is, or where they will be chambering these?


----------



## russmuller

According to the online builder posted above, chambering is $150. Even with all the options I want, the Vader still came in at under 2 grand. Damn...

Nothing is really known about the chambering other than that it must not be Ola-style (routed from the side where the wings glue to the neck) since chambering is only available with a top wood option.


----------



## gunshow86de

leonardo7 said:


> So whats the upcharge for a chambered body and do we know how chambered it is, or where they will be chambering these?



It's the cost of whatever top you choose + $150 for the chambering. Since it's neck through, I'm assuming just 2 chambers on the body wings, but I haven't seen any photos of it like with the HH2.

Probably like this, but with the neck solid all the way through.


----------



## russmuller

What's up with the extra strap button on the lower bout? Does anyone actually use that?


----------



## Hollowway

HighGain510 said:


> Did anyone get a pic of the sign for that green DC800 with the green acrylic block inlays? I'm curious what those cost exactly as I wouldn't mind those on an 8 since the wider fretboard throws me off a bit and I'm still planning to order a Vader 8.  Almost wish I could have grabbed that green NAMM DC800, tbh!



X-Man might have. He took oodles of pics. Check out over at his Carvin bbs post. And o think Koschei or one of the other guys has a Flickr album with a link posted on here. I'm pretty sure I saw some close ups of it.


----------



## sartorious

russmuller said:


> What's up with the extra strap button on the lower bout? Does anyone actually use that?



I've wondered the same thing. It makes no sense to use with your strap unless you like the neck pointing at the ground. However, according to the item description...


> "There is a strap button on the upper horn in the normal position, and two lower strap buttons, allowing the guitar to stand safely leaned against an amp."



I still don't know how this works with a common guitar stand having 2 pegs to support the body and a C-shaped neck holder.


----------



## decreebass

sartorious said:


> I've wondered the same thing. It makes no sense to use with your strap unless you like the neck pointing at the ground. However, according to the item description...
> 
> 
> I still don't know how this works with a common guitar stand having 2 pegs to support the body and a C-shaped neck holder.



Nah that makes perfect sense; all those stands are adjustable and the neck holder doesn't hold the headstock, just the neck. 

So the extra strap button is for balance when standing on the ground? That's a great idea; not something you can do with every guitar nowadays...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yup. A bunch of companies did that back in the day, including Steinberger. I know Schecter started doing it to some of their USA Production guitars.

EDIT: I say 'a bunch', but it was mostly Schecter and Tom Anderson.


----------



## spudmunkey

gunshow86de said:


> It's the cost of whatever top you choose + $150 for the chambering. Since it's neck through, I'm assuming just 2 chambers on the body wings, but I haven't seen any photos of it like with the HH2.
> 
> Probably like this, but with the neck solid all the way through.



Actually, that photo seems to be an out-dated image. vlnbow over on the carvin bbs added his own single coil pickups in the middle, and his is more solid in the middle. Also note, though, that the Vader's body is much thinner on the left due to a rear belly cut, front bevel, and forearm contour. I can't help but think that's not leaving much room for chambering on that side of the body...especially when you consider the now-discontinued SB basses that had optional chambering didn't have ANY on the forearm contour portion of the body.  There's something going on, though, because that chambered 8-string came in at 5.875lbs...


----------



## Convictional

I cannot wait for the NGDs that are going to come with the first set of orders.

So tasty


----------



## Jake

Even though I'm a little sad gold hardware is not yet an option I've managed to spec out basically exactly what I want under $1400

It's gonna be white, have a flamed maple fb and be awesome


----------



## Chuck

Seriously thinking of selling my Ibanez RG7421 and 540S7 to get a Vader 7.


----------



## kevdes93

Jake said:


> Even though I'm a little sad gold hardware is not yet an option I've managed to spec out basically exactly what I want under $1400
> 
> It's gonna be white, have a flamed maple fb and be awesome



do we know if gold hardware IS coming at any point?


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

ferret said:


> Use the builder on the US Page (If you can get it) to figure out your order, then call in tomorrow and ask for Chris to see if he can take your international number over the phone.
> 
> Last update I saw, the IP block for the US Carvin webpage would be removed in April. I think they're still sorting out just which regions might still have a dealer... _*I've heard the Asian market is out of luck and will be dealer still.*_




WAT.

Source? I f*u*cking hope that isn't true.


----------



## ferret

CarvinBBS. Matias is in Japan.



MatiasTolkki said:


> So just got confirmation from Chris...The 3 Asian dealers will still be selling Carvins and no direct sales to Japan


----------



## HaloHat

ferret said:


> CarvinBBS. Matias is in Japan.



Direct from Kiesel though?


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

So.... Different direction here, but I went into Carvin this morning and put down my order for a V7, Jeff was there so I got to pick his brain on a few questions I saw people had on here like the chambering (which he wouldn't tell me how it is done), due to idea stealing and such I guess, hardware color and trem option (he said he has no idea if and when on either), and the top wood cutoff on the bottom edge. I agreed with everything he said about it being a smaller body and the amount it dives down in such a short distance there would be no way to bend the wood all the way down. It bothered me a bit at first, but looks much better in person really, it's gonna be on mine so I gotta live with it now.
But I do have to say, the chambered vs non chambered is almost a pound lighter chambered, which deducts to how light it is already, and the brightness and resonance on it was just so rediculously awesome (it made the non chambered sound flat, tingy and dull compared to it).
And the new pickups just KILL! A whole lot more organic, tight and fluid with plenty of growl, I just loved them to death compared to the old regular pups.
But anyways this is just IMO and I'm just venting my excitement for my V7 order.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

It's weird tho on the hardware colors tho because they do make a spchrome and gold aswell, so I do hope they bring that to the option list eventually, I really hope they design a trem version aswell cause I'll be all over that in a heartbeat.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Is their any reason why they couldn't use the JCustom trem on the V6? They probably brought it up but I don't think I've seen any reasons.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

It wasn't brought up when I asked about it, they already use hipshot and said they have a really good relationship with them so they're probably sticking to them only I guess.


----------



## Darren James

(Haven't posted in a while) I honestly love the look of these but it's a hard decision to make. After conversion rate, for what I want I could easly get a used prs which is something I already own and know how they play. I've never played a carvin before but from what I'm reading, they seem to be right up there as well? (As far as playability goes and feel)


----------



## Blasphemer

Really considering a 6 string Vader, but I have a question about the neck shape and option 50ing. I've played Carvins before, and never really been in love with the neck shape. I know I can option 50 a thinner neck, but can I request an Ibanez style neck, or will they shape it down to their own "thinner" Carvin profile?


----------



## stevo1

If you request a thinner neck, they will do their thinner neck profile only. It's also $60 to do that.


----------



## decreebass

stevo1 said:


> If you request a thinner neck, they will do their thinner neck profile only. It's also $60 to do that.


 
Nope. Not available on the Vader (per Chris Hong). I suspect at some time in the future it will be though.


----------



## ferret

HaloHat said:


> Direct from Kiesel though?



As of Facebook post just now on Kiesel Guitars page, yes...



> Check out the Kiesel Guitars Vader headless in these images. Wanted to post some screen shots of our US website for the customers outside the US. Sit tight guys the US website will have the IP redirect removed April 1st. Until then we can and will sell direct to you! Countries we still have dealers are: Japan, China and Korea.... If your not in one of those countries and you want to buy direct send an email to [email protected]


----------



## kevdes93

what ever happened to the prototype that appeared to be bolt on? i think a bolt on ERG would be a cool kiesel offering


----------



## Jlang

kevdes93 said:


> what ever happened to the prototype that appeared to be bolt on? i think a bolt on ERG would be a cool kiesel offering


Pretty sure that was the Becker model.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

kevdes93 said:


> what ever happened to the prototype that appeared to be bolt on? i think a bolt on ERG would be a cool kiesel offering



I had actually emailed Chris H. about that and apparently that was only used as a template


----------



## kevdes93

i see. theres always next year...


----------



## HighGain510

Just posting it here as well in case anyone missed it in the official Carvin thread, Chris H's email address has been changed over and their admin for the mail servers might not have been forwarding things correctly so if anyone is not receiving a response from him that's likely why!  Here's Chris' new email address:

[email protected]

I was trying to figure out why I wasn't hearing back from him when he was usually very prompt in the past, but when I called he explained the email change and since his forum account is tied to the old email he hasn't been getting any of the notices tied to the SSO account either.  Hope that helps, I got all my questions sorted and ordered my Vader 6'er last night!


----------



## ICAFXMIKE

Looks like the THNN option is available. I got it on my V8 order. Here is my spec confirmation


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Hey guys, I ordered my v7 a few days ago. I'm pretty excited, but also slightly worried about getting my hopes up, since its my first custom. 

Here are the specs.

Alder body
Maple neck
Swamp ash top, antique ash finish, with black back, all satin matte.
_(wanted to have the top glossy, and the back satin matte, but will have to wait for another time, since it is an op50)
_Ebony fingerboard, no streaking, no inlays and stainless steel frets.
Black Keisel logo.

My total was around 1600.


----------



## olejason

Matte white is going to look sick on that


----------



## decreebass

ICAFXMIKE said:


> Looks like the THNN option is available. I got it on my V8 order. Here is my spec confirmation



Well I'll be damned. Just emailed Chris to toss that on mine 

Yea he was saying that he was getting conflicting messages as to its availability, so no harm no foul.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Awh damn seriously!! I didn't know I could of done that to my V8!! I'm gonna have to give them a call now:/ stoked that's offered tho!


----------



## HaloHat

HighGain510 said:


> Just posting it here as well in case anyone missed it in the official Carvin thread, Chris H's email address has been changed over and their admin for the mail servers might not have been forwarding things correctly so if anyone is not receiving a response from him that's likely why!  Here's Chris' new email address:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> I was trying to figure out why I wasn't hearing back from him when he was usually very prompt in the past, but when I called he explained the email change and since his forum account is tied to the old email he hasn't been getting any of the notices tied to the SSO account either.  Hope that helps, I got all my questions sorted and ordered my Vader 6'er last night!



Ha same happened to me. I called and asked Steve Schisler "hey are you mad at me or something 'cause your not answering my emails"

[email protected]


----------



## Guamskyy

So I'm just now finally understanding the whole "Option 50" deal, I assume with you opting for an Option 50 the base price will be higher? I really dug that natural-to-red burst on one of Carvin's videos on youtube and I thought that would look sick on a vader 6 or 7.

Just wondering because I want to budget my build at or less than $2500.


----------



## ferret

It all depends. Option 50 is just anything that doesn't have a computer code. It could range from 10 to 500 or more, depending on what it is. Not all option 50s will void the 10-day return policy either.

I'm pretty sure you're referring to their California burst though, and I do not believe that is an option 50 anymore, it has a code. It's not on most builders yet but if you look at the Greg Howe signature it is.

I'm 99.999% confident you can get a cali burst well under $2500.... Probably under $2000, depending on your other options.


----------



## Guamskyy

ferret said:


> It all depends. Option 50 is just anything that doesn't have a computer code. It could range from 10 to 500 or more, depending on what it is. Not all option 50s will void the 10-day return policy either.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you're referring to their California burst though, and I do not believe that is an option 50 anymore, it has a code. It's not on most builders yet but if you look at the Greg Howe signature it is.
> 
> I'm 99.999% confident you can get a cali burst well under $2500.... Probably under $2000, depending on your other options.



What I have been spec'ing out has been around $1900-$2100 (and those prices are with a flame maple top finish) so it would be likely it's under my set price-point.

And actually I was mistaken on the color- I imagined it as a natural to red burst (because I want mine like that ) but the guitar that I was talking about is a natural to violet/purple burst. At about 1:20 in he pulls it off the hanger- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EkniRH1OLo


----------



## ferret

Ah yeah, that one is definitely an opt 50. Need to call in to see how much, but if I were a betting man, I'd guess $200-300 for that paint job.


----------



## Guamskyy

Just spec'd out what I want to confirm the price- including a finish take it's place, that particular guitar would cost me just shy of $1800. Give or take another $100-$200 for an Option 50 finish, I'll be under-budget and enough money left over to give my other guitar a new set of shiny pickups


----------



## XxXPete

on the site on the guitar builder thingy..i do NOT see the thinner neck profile for a 7..does anybody see it? Maybe im looking wrong? thx


----------



## kevdes93

you need to call them for that option.


----------



## XxXPete

^ ahh so fill out the rest of the specs on the guitar builder online , then call them to add the thinner neck profile?/ Thanks


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'd call them and build it from scratch on the phone. It's way easier because you get to ask questions about every little decision.


----------



## kevdes93

Finally got my specs sorted out. Keeping it pretty barebones for this one. Gonna have some nice contrast with the black/zebrawood/white pup combo

Satin jet black 
Alder/maple
Zebrawood FB
SS jumbos
White pickups

Very excited for my first carvin


----------



## GXPO

kevdes93 said:


> Finally got my specs sorted out. Keeping it pretty barebones for this one. Gonna have some nice contrast with the black/zebrawood/white pup combo
> 
> Satin jet black
> Alder/maple
> Zebrawood FB
> SS jumbos
> White pickups
> 
> Very excited for my first carvin



Only here can a headless, extended range, extended scale guitar with stainless steel frets and zebrawood be considered barebones. 

Love you guys.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

It's only been ten days. My impatience is killing me. As it turns out, I'm going way out of state right around when my guitar will probably be finished. This fills me with unreasonable amounts of sadness.


----------



## MatthewK

I'm trying to nail down the specs I want. I'm thinking...

V8
maple/alder
Satin KRO
birdseye fretboard
either abolone dot inlays or blank
stainless jumbo frets
not sure which logo (seriously, this is the hardest part for some reason)


----------



## thisismrfrenzy

MatthewK said:


> I'm trying to nail down the specs I want. I'm thinking...
> 
> V8
> maple/alder
> Satin KRO
> birdseye fretboard
> either abolone dot inlays or blank
> stainless jumbo frets
> not sure which logo (seriously, this is the hardest part for some reason)



I think that would be very similar to Francesco's Vader, you should check his out


----------



## TheManMadeMan

I haven't been charged for my deposit yet. Is that normal? I tried emailing them, but no reply.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

HighGain510 said:


> Just posting it here as well in case anyone missed it in the official Carvin thread, Chris H's email address has been changed over and their admin for the mail servers might not have been forwarding things correctly so if anyone is not receiving a response from him that's likely why!  Here's Chris' new email address:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> I was trying to figure out why I wasn't hearing back from him when he was usually very prompt in the past, but when I called he explained the email change and since his forum account is tied to the old email he hasn't been getting any of the notices tied to the SSO account either.  Hope that helps, I got all my questions sorted and ordered my Vader 6'er last night!


 
I was wondering why I he hadn't responded in over a week lol Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

TheManMadeMan said:


> I haven't been charged for my deposit yet. Is that normal? I tried emailing them, but no reply.



How long ago did you order? I placed an order with an American express card and it took a while to even show as a pending charge. I'm actually wondering if it's normal not to get a confirmation email since I've got nothing, though the charge did go through.

Edit: I was also told by Chris that it's not abnormal for the charges not to go through for a bit, particularly with amex cards.


----------



## Discoqueen

You'd want to follow up on the confirmation, though.


----------



## HighGain510

IChuckFinleyI said:


> I was wondering why I he hadn't responded in over a week lol Thanks for the heads up.



No prob man!


----------



## Cloudy

For you folks who havent paid deposit yet:

I spoke with Chris a little while ago and apparently they're having issues with their paypal account. Not sure if its been resolved or not but I had to call in a couple times to actually get my deposit paid over the phone via credit card.

JB24 here I come


----------



## porknchili

I wish they'd offer gold hipshot headless hardware instead of just the black version. I don't really see any reason why they wouldn't make the gold or chrome versions as an option.


----------



## Cloudy

porknchili said:


> I wish they'd offer gold hipshot headless hardware instead of just the black version. I don't really see any reason why they wouldn't make the gold or chrome versions as an option.



One of the main reasons I didn't get a Vader was because of the lack of hardware options. No love for gold 

Its strange because you can still get the evo wire and gold plated logo.


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> One of the main reasons I didn't get a Vader was because of the lack of hardware options. No love for gold
> 
> Its strange because you can still get the evo wire and gold plated logo.



You can't do the gold plated Carvin logo on the Vader actually. I tried to do that for mine and since it is a Kiesel model now, Chris said that's a no-go. Not the end of the world, he's doing a special black/gold Kiesel logo for me which should be cool at least.


----------



## Cloudy

HighGain510 said:


> You can't do the gold plated Carvin logo on the Vader actually. I tried to do that for mine and since it is a Kiesel model now, Chris said that's a no-go. Not the end of the world, he's doing a special black/gold Kiesel logo for me which should be cool at least.



Oh really? I remember seeing it on the builder, must have changed it or been an error.

Well at least thats a bit more on point with the whole no gold hardware thing.


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> Oh really? I remember seeing it on the builder, must have changed it or been an error.
> 
> Well at least thats a bit more on point with the whole no gold hardware thing.



Yeah if it's still in the builder they haven't fixed it yet. It wouldn't be the first time the builder had a mistake in it.  I know it still lets you select satin matte finish and shows neck as gloss when you finish the build. In my experience, while running through the builder to get an idea on specs and rough price, it's almost always better ordering over the phone.


----------



## Cloudy

HighGain510 said:


> Yeah if it's still in the builder they haven't fixed it yet. It wouldn't be the first time the builder had a mistake in it.  I know it still lets you select satin matte finish and shows neck as gloss when you finish the build. In my experience, while running through the builder to get an idea on specs and rough price, it's almost always better ordering over the phone.



Not to mention the upgrades/free goodies you can get ordering by phone.


----------



## kevdes93

HNGGGGGG


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> Not to mention the upgrades/free goodies you can get ordering by phone.



Haha yep there is also that! 



kevdes93 said:


> HNGGGGGG



Damn that's tasty! Still wish they could/would do a true drop top on these.


----------



## kevdes93

yeah itd be nice, its not a dealbreaker for me though. maybe theyll ofer it at an upcharge down the road a ways


----------



## Cloudy

Ive come to the conclusion that the best course of action with the vaders is to get a burst edge style finish, that three tone burst with the black edges almost entirely masks the missing top from the arm bevel.

I wish it wasn't like that but it still looks extremly awesome.


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> Ive come to the conclusion that the best course of action with the vaders is to get a burst edge style finish, that three tone burst with the black edges almost entirely masks the missing top from the arm bevel.
> 
> I wish it wasn't like that but it still looks extremly awesome.



Yep that's why I opted for plain maple top and did an opaque finish for my order, otherwise I would have done the trans white over quilted maple. I'm more concerned with this one sounding good than how she looks so matte KRG was the way to go!


----------



## Cloudy

bright solid colours are always a plus in my books, got a hot pink JB24 coming to me in 6-8 weeks


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> bright solid colours are always a plus in my books, got a hot pink JB24 coming to me in 6-8 weeks



One thing to note (in case anyone was curious lol) - Kiesel Racing Green is substantially less bright/neon in person than it appears in their online photos. I was expecting a neon lime green, but in person it is more of the color of the UV Green Dot inlay green.  Not a bad thing at all as I love all shades of green, just wanted to throw that out there in case anyone was curious or was expecting neon based on the pics from the site!  I'm still leaving my Vader order alone as I don't want to get hit with a change fee, but just wanted to put that out there for anyone who was looking to go KRG under the assumption it was going to be neon like the site pics, it is definitely NOT neon in person.  I'll get some pics up of the DC800 soon, I was out of town for part of the weekend so while I was able to play it (love it, btw!), I was not able to sit down and get pics together yet.  That being said, if you ARE going with KRG finish, the matching KRG inlays tie things together VERY NICELY!


----------



## Axayacatl

kevdes93 said:


> HNGGGGGG




OK, I give up!  I cannot find this picture anywhere. Are you the SEAL Team 6 of Photoshop?


----------



## kevdes93

Nope, gear gods posted it on facebook


----------



## Geysd

This green Guitar looks very sick. I always thought these guitars are just, kinda wrong. But I think this guitar could catch me


----------



## Veritech Zero

Just one more overtime shift and one will be mine!


----------



## SnowfaLL

Apparently Hipshot has made a revision to the bridge, and the edges are sloped down now so to not "dig into your wrist" as people were worried about. Pretty cool! They are already being put on some Vaders already.


----------



## celticelk

^^^ Interesting! OK, now what are people going to complain about? =)


----------



## decreebass

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Interesting! OK, now what are people going to complain about? =)



I think once the figured tops start popping up, there'll be a lot of complaints about the bevel... But while they're complaining, I'll be shredding


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I think the figured tops look just fine on the vaders. A lot nicer than I thought they would look when I first heard they cut off before the edge. The only thing that worries me is I hope the figuring in my burl top is pretty. I'm sure it'll look fine regardless, but a prettier top never hurts.


----------



## Hollowway

That's so cool of Hipshot to be on it like that! I love companies that are that nimble.

I reeeeallly want to get a cali burst Vader, but I'm worried about the forearm bevel. I'm on the fence between a cali burst vader, a KRO vader like Francesco's, or a regular cali-burst build.


----------



## MJS

celticelk said:


> ^^^ Interesting! OK, now what are people going to complain about? =)



They'll complain that the edges of the saddles are too sharp and point out that the obvious fix would be to make the sides of the bridge higher than the saddles.


----------



## ChrisH

SnowfaLL said:


> Apparently Hipshot has made a revision to the bridge, and the edges are sloped down now so to not "dig into your wrist" as people were worried about. Pretty cool! They are already being put on some Vaders already.



By the way, Jeff was the one who designed the tweeks for Hipshot to change. We also made a change that's not visible that makes string changing a lot easier than what it was before. Hipshot has been super awesome and responsive with our requests so we're super stoked to be working with a company like them. I was very vocal about getting that bridge change made so I'm glad we got it worked out right after NAMM. The original bridge was actually surprisingly comfortable but we wanted to make sure that it was as comfortable and functional as can be for our customers.


----------



## mnemonic

Wow that's a quick turnaround by hipshot. The bridge also looks a lot cooler from the side with the sloped-down edge. 

Shame I'm trying to buy a house at the moment or I would have ordered one already, methinks.


----------



## HighGain510

Nothing but good news there!!! Thanks Chris!  What was modified to facilitate easier string changes?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Good to see the scale length and bridge complaints have been rectified. 

Now work on getting the JCustom _trem_ on the 6-string model.


----------



## HighGain510

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Good to see the scale length and bridge complaints have been rectified.
> 
> Now work on getting the JCustom bridge for the 6-string model.



Having owned a handful of HH models as well as a bunch of guitars with Hipshot's normal hardware, I'll go out on a ledge and say now that they fixed the "issue" with the lip on the sides of the bridge, that Hipshot headless bridge will be a step up in quality overall. The JCustom bridges weren't bad but the Hipshot stuff is solid and sounds great, so I'm thinking the Hipshot option on these is an improvement. The tuners look pretty robust and the screws look long enough to give you a good range of intonation on these. 

All I know is that my two "complaints" about the original design (25.5" option and hoping the bridge sides wouldn't be an issue haha) have been fully-rectified, and this has me rather stoked!  Is it April yet?!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Actually I meant the JCustom _trem_. Can't type shit when I'm just waking up.


----------



## HighGain510

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Actually I meant the JCustom _trem_. Can't type shit when I'm just waking up.



Ah... well that's a different story.  Does Hipshot have a trem version of their headless bridge?  Guessing the answer is probably no but I never looked...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Someone here claimed that there was one in the works. 

Given how quickly Carvin got them to modify their current bridges, I hope that we'll see a trem soon.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

ChrisH said:


> By the way, Jeff was the one who designed the tweeks for Hipshot to change. We also made a change that's not visible that makes string changing a lot easier than what it was before. Hipshot has been super awesome and responsive with our requests so we're super stoked to be working with a company like them. I was very vocal about getting that bridge change made so I'm glad we got it worked out right after NAMM. The original bridge was actually surprisingly comfortable but we wanted to make sure that it was as comfortable and functional as can be for our customers.


 
You guys seriously kick ass!


----------



## S-O

Everyone hurry up and get one so I can look at more pictures!


----------



## ferret

I'm trying I'm trying  7-8 more weeks.


----------



## stevo1

Hopefully I will be ordering mine soon. Going with the V7, and with these options:
27" scale
Alder wings and walnut neck
Maple top with body chambering
Maple fretboard
SS med-jumbo frets
No inlays
Top is going to be painted in Laguna seca blue / mustang grabbed blue
Back and sides natural
Hoping they'll let me do the blue top in gloss, with the back and sides satin.


----------



## Snarpaasi

stevo1 said:


> Hopefully I will be ordering mine soon. Going with the V7, and with these options:
> 27" scale
> Alder wings and walnut neck
> Maple top with body chambering
> Maple fretboard
> SS med-jumbo frets
> No inlays
> Top is going to be painted in Laguna seca blue / mustang grabbed blue
> Back and sides natural
> Hoping they'll let me do the blue top in gloss, with the back and sides satin.



Hmm what's that color? And why not to go for a full satin? That shiny gloss has become a no-no for me


----------



## spudmunkey

Snarpaasi said:


> Hmm what's that color? And why not to go for a full satin? That shiny gloss has become a no-no for me



Oh, I disagree. I would love the top in Grabber blue in gloss with satin sides.

I love satin necks, but love the way the colors "pop" under gloss. I'm surprised we haven't seen many (any?) CSs or DC600s, DC700s etc with glossy tops and satin sides and back, to eliminate that satin/gloss transition line on the neck.


----------



## ferret

There was the guy recently with a satin top and tung sides and back though.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

ferret said:


> I'm trying I'm trying  7-8 more weeks.



Isn't that the wait time from scratch? Or is it because you got the 25 inch scale and it's taking longer? My tiny little heart is having enough trouble waiting for end of march/beginning of april. Can't imagine having to wait an extra half month.


----------



## ferret

Chokey Chicken said:


> Isn't that the wait time from scratch? Or is it because you got the 25 inch scale and it's taking longer? My tiny little heart is having enough trouble waiting for end of march/beginning of april. Can't imagine having to wait an extra half month.



25.5" wait time. The CNC wasn't programmed for it on Feb 1st, Chris warned of an extra 2 weeks, give or take, while they got things in place.

If you ordered today, it should be the same whether 25.5 or 27.


----------



## HighGain510

ferret said:


> 25.5" wait time. The CNC wasn't programmed for it on Feb 1st, Chris warned of an extra 2 weeks, give or take, while they got things in place.
> 
> If you ordered today, it should be the same whether 25.5 or 27.



Yep, same for mine. Chris said initial delivery window was likely around April.  It's going to be headless city over here pretty soon!  Might be offing one of my guitars to order another Strandburg and I'm really excited to try out the Vader to compare the two!


----------



## Alberto7

ChrisH said:


> By the way, Jeff was the one who designed the tweeks for Hipshot to change. We also made a change that's not visible that makes string changing a lot easier than what it was before. Hipshot has been super awesome and responsive with our requests so we're super stoked to be working with a company like them. I was very vocal about getting that bridge change made so I'm glad we got it worked out right after NAMM. The original bridge was actually surprisingly comfortable but we wanted to make sure that it was as comfortable and functional as can be for our customers.



Like, how can you not love these people!


----------



## fortisursus

Carvin man. They get it done. Kudos to Chris, Jeff, and everyone else on their team.


----------



## Blasphemer

I was super dead set on using my tax return to put money down on a 6 string Vader. I found out today that I'm going to need around 1000 bucks to get my car up to code for state inspection.

MFW:


----------



## lewstherin006




----------



## HighGain510

lewstherin006 said:


>




Pretty sweet vid, stoked to get my 6'er!


----------



## ferret

I did some crappy photoshopping today:






Almost there, end of march estimate.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

ferret said:


> I did some crappy photoshopping today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost there, end of march estimate.



Yours is one of the ones I desperately want to see, so I'm hoping you upload lots of pictures. 

I haven't the foggiest when mine is due, but here's to hoping end of march!


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Dear god I can't wait to get my V7 and V8. It will be the most glorious double NGD ever.. Or best day ever in any case.. That vid makes my month long wait even worse now so thank you..


----------



## ferret

Mike Jones was nice enough to give me a higher res image to play with.  This is NOT helping the next 4 weeks go by any quicker....


----------



## metal_sam14

I wonder how much I would get rammed by currency conversion for trying to get one of these in Australia. Im having back problems from heavy guitars on stage and one of these is calling my name!


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> Yours is one of the ones I desperately want to see, so I'm hoping you upload lots of pictures.
> 
> I haven't the foggiest when mine is due, but here's to hoping end of march!



I ordered mine within a week of the order window opening and was told expect April. If you ordered on day one you MIGHT get lucky and get it early, but I was told not to bet on it.  I was just happy they slapped the 25.5" option on there! 



ferret said:


> Mike Jones was nice enough to give me a higher res image to play with.  This is NOT helping the next 4 weeks go by any quicker....



Man that should be tasty when it's done! I like how that paint you chose looks on the car, so it should look sick on your guitar! 



metal_sam14 said:


> I wonder how much I would get rammed by currency conversion for trying to get one of these in Australia. Im having back problems from heavy guitars on stage and one of these is calling my name!



I hear you there man, that's why I went with a 6'er and chose the chambered body option! My Strandberg is chambered mahogany and that thing is a featherweight but still sounds huge, so I'm hoping this one ends up fairly similar!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yeah, I'm hoping end of march, expecting April. I placed my order either Thursday or Friday before they "officially" went on sale. Still they estimate 7-9 weeks, and it could even be longer than that, so April isn't unreasonable to expect. Still gonna get my fool hopes up for sooner rather than later. I'm dying to see what the burl figuring will look like on mine.


----------



## teamSKDM

I may be late on this, but according to that video the headless bridge has been redesigned on the edges? Anywhere i can get conformation?


----------



## HighGain510

teamSKDM said:


> I may be late on this, but according to that video the headless bridge has been redesigned on the edges? Anywhere i can get conformation?



Yes it has been changed, the pic was posted of the redesign on the page before this one in this very thread. 






Looks MUCH better!


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

^ yea they're doing that for sure on all the ones we're getting late April-early March, I have been into Carvin several times since I ordered mine the first days they were available to order and was assured that we're getting the new sloped down bridges. I bet they are going to feel fantastic cause the regular block sides they have in the showroom are kinda uncomfortable and do make it alittle harder to palm mute, but it'll be no problem with the new design thank you Jeff for making that happen!


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Oops I meant late March-early April **


----------



## Unburdened

The Vader is absolutely gorgeous. Now I'm torn...do I get a DC727 or a V7 after grad school?


----------



## decreebass

I was a little bummed when I ordered because the "rush build" wasn't even an option. And money was no object when I ordered. They just couldn't do it with the volume of orders they got 

I have a show the 21st but even if I don't get it it's cool - it'll be here eventually and before I know it, I'll be GASsing for my next guitar lol.


----------



## ferret

This went up on Facebook today. Looks like it's the first example of the 25.5" version. A small cut out for tuners to accommodate the bridge moving forward due to the scale change. Otherwise the body is the same as the 27" model.

Possibly also of note that I think this is the first example we've seen with no top or solid paint, with the neck showing.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

Yo! Just upped this unboxing vid for my Vader 8 string in Kiesel Racing Orange - thought you guys might be interested  hope ya dig!


----------



## yingmin

If they make a 6-string bass version of these, I may actually buy my first new Carvin.


----------



## Unburdened

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Yo! Just upped this unboxing vid for my Vader 8 string in Kiesel Racing Orange - thought you guys might be interested  hope ya dig!




Hey Francesco! What is the tuning stability like on the Hipshot headless system? Beautiful V8 you've got there.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi

Unburdened said:


> Hey Francesco! What is the tuning stability like on the Hipshot headless system? Beautiful V8 you've got there.



I may be biased, but DUDE have you heard the chords at the end of the vid?  I swear they were PERFECT with the tuner, I was so impressed. I'm totally sure this bridge sounds as good as the non-headless version since it's the same materials really.

Just earlier today I changed the 8th string to a lighter gauge since I think the stock one was a bit too thick, and changing strings is almost genius on this bridge, takes no time at all and it's really effortless. Fine-tuners are smooooth as well. I'm genuinely impressed


----------



## TheManMadeMan

How does Carvin give you guys estimates? I ordered mine the day they became available, but didn't get charged for the 20% til a week later.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Same here. My email confirmation was also a corrupt/non-working file. I'm pretty much in the dark about everything right now.


----------



## ferret

I hound ChrisH. He's a good sport about it.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yeah he's been super cool to me, so I feel really weird about confronting him about stupid shit that ultimately makes no difference. I figure I'll just be patient and when the guitar shows, it shows. 

Won't be easy to be patient once people start getting them before me.


----------



## jerm

Chokey Chicken said:


> Same here. My email confirmation was also a corrupt/non-working file. I'm pretty much in the dark about everything right now.


just call them up....


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Like I said, I'm not stressing. I know the order is in and it's going through. If it becomes an issue I'll call or something, but it's no biggie.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

My green bananza V8 is almost done!! Just pickups and hardware to go!! Super stoked how it turned out!
View attachment 45428


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I was wondering if that one was somebody's from around here. I keep looking for mine, and have yet to see it. Much sad.


----------



## HighGain510

Greenbrettiscool said:


> My green bananza V8 is almost done!! Just pickups and hardware to go!! Super stoked how it turned out!
> View attachment 45428



Matches my DC800!  They posted several in-progress Vaders, all of them are looking great! Can't believe it's March already, I thought the wait would be much harder but I've been so busy I didn't even realize it should be done pretty soon!  Hoping mine pops up in the FB feed soon too!


----------



## Yimmj

I ordered my V7 last week! 

V7
27" scale
Clear Satin Finish
Walnut body
5pc Custom Neck: Walnut/mahogany/flamed maple/mahogany/ walnut 
Birdseye maple neck/ no inlays
Stainless Med Jumbo Frets

I am unbelievably stoked on the custom 5pc neck they are doing for my vader. its going to be awesome


----------



## Chokey Chicken

HighGain510 said:


> Matches my DC800!  They posted several in-progress Vaders, all of them are looking great! Can't believe it's March already, I thought the wait would be much harder but I've been so busy I didn't even realize it should be done pretty soon!  Hoping mine pops up in the FB feed soon too!



I immediately thought of your dc800 when I saw it on Facebook. I'm super stoked that April draws near. I've never been so excited for a guitar in my life. lol


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

All of these NGDs are going to make me hate my pizza delivery job even more. Bring on the hate. And the pictures. Lots of pictures.


----------



## metalstrike

Man, Carvin Vader or Strandberg Boden OS7???? HNNNNGGGGGG


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

I'd personally wait a year or two for the inevitable multiscale Vader. Kudos to those brave pioneers who are paving the way for this with your cash.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

April 1st is the estimated completion day for me. Not much longer.


----------



## HighGain510

metalstrike said:


> Man, Carvin Vader or Strandberg Boden OS7???? HNNNNGGGGGG



Fairly different guitars!  You could do like me and save up for one of each so you don't have to make that tough decision!  I'm excited to compare my V6 to my Strandbergs! 



Captain Butterscotch said:


> I'd personally wait a year or two for the inevitable multiscale Vader. Kudos to those brave pioneers who are paving the way for this with your cash.



I don't know that I'd say it's "inevitable", BUT Kiesel does seem willing to listen to customers on new ideas they really want these days, so I wouldn't be surprised if we did see it eventually. There were more people asking for more headless options from Carvin than folks begging for fanned frets, so maybe people need to start bombarding them with email/Facebook posts asking for it to speed things up?  I'm good with both a non-fanned and a fanned version though! 



Chokey Chicken said:


> April 1st is the estimated completion day for me. Not much longer.



Noice! Speaking of which I need to hit them up to see where my stands as I never received the invoice and Chris had just given me the estimate over the phone so I don't remember what it was at this point. Maybe it has a more realistic date attached to the build since it should be fairly far along by now!  Can't wait, my trunk space is fairly limited so having a nice compact headless 6'er and my iPad running JamUp Pro XT with good headphones is all I need for our Philly trips to get some practice time in on weekends that we go visit the family!


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Just went into carvin yesterday, and the day before to get some parts and also check on the status of when my V8 would be done. I have a show on Saturday and would love to give it a go, I was expecting it by tomarrow or Saturday morning at the latest they said, BUT.. They are still waiting on the new Hipshot bridges.. So no Vaders are going out till they get them. So maybe by next week now? Idk but it's still a very fast turn around time from the estimated 8 weeks originally, still kinda bummed some of us got teased by all the almost completed Vaders on their FB. Oh well, still stoked tho!


----------



## HighGain510

Greenbrettiscool said:


> Just went into carvin yesterday, and the day before to get some parts and also check on the status of when my V8 would be done. I have a show on Saturday and would love to give it a go, I was expecting it by tomarrow or Saturday morning at the latest they said, BUT.. They are still waiting on the new Hipshot bridges.. So no Vaders are going out till they get them. So maybe by next week now? Idk but it's still a very fast turn around time from the estimated 8 weeks originally, still kinda bummed some of us got teased by all the almost completed Vaders on their FB. Oh well, still stoked tho!



Ah that's a bummer! At least they're moving the guitars themselves right along, not bad to be in March and seeing something that debuted at the end of January almost ready to go!  That's some decent turnaround!  I heard back from Chris last night, mine is tentatively set for 4/6/15 completion but obviously none of these dates are set in stone so we'll see how things go!


----------



## Blasphemer

Worked a lot over the last two weeks, and now have enough money to get my car fixed without using my tax return, so I still may be able to get a Vader.

MFW:


----------



## mbardu

Can't wait to see the first ngd... 
Just waiting for a few more samples to make up my mind on a build.. 

Thinking about blue mist metallic top, natural back, 5-piece walnut / maple neck, flamed maple fretboard, cream pickups. 

On a 25.5" site. Yummy


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Every so often I forget about it even being in production, and then this thread gets bumped and I start gassing like a mofo. I don't think my feeble little heart can take much more waiting! I'm dying to see what the burl looks like.


----------



## SeditiousDissent

Chokey Chicken said:


> April 1st is the estimated completion day for me. Not much longer.



This has the potential to be the most devastating April Fool's Day prank of all time!


----------



## HighGain510

Slightly bummed, Chris said green FRETBOARD DOTS are apparently a no go now?  You can still get green side dots, green blocks and green diamond inlays, just no fretboard dot inlays. Opted to go green dots and blank birdseye board, would have loved the matching green face dots but not the end of the world.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That is a bit of a bummer. I didn't even know the offered anything other than the blocks though to be honest. 

Been meaning to ask (and have no intents of buying so I won't waste Chris' time) is green the only non standard color they offer? Like could you get orange blocks with a kro finish?


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> That is a bit of a bummer. I didn't even know the offered anything other than the blocks though to be honest.
> 
> Been meaning to ask (and have no intents of buying so I won't waste Chris' time) is green the only non standard color they offer? Like could you get orange blocks with a kro finish?



I'm not sure what shapes and materials they are willing to do. I was told the dots were not a problem but apparently Jeff said he did not order any nor did he intend to, so I am basically SOL since I ordered back in February when I was told green fretboard dots were no problem. I am pretty sure they did red diamonds on a guitar before so it seems he's ordering more than just green material for inlays, but that was also diamonds. I also don't get why one would imagine diamonds would be a more sought after option than dots...


----------



## ferret

Red, blue, green and pink.

That was the answer I got in January before ordering.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

My guitar just got posted guys! It looks great!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Can't post the pic cuz my phone sucks, but I'm pretty sure my V7 in nightburst burl just popped up on Facebook.

Much drool, gas at lethal levels.


----------



## olejason

I wonder if they'd do the 'open grain' blacked out finish on the entire guitar? That seems like about as close as you can get to a textured oil finish from Carvin. I'm looking forward to you getting it. I'm curious how much of the grain you can feel.


----------



## ferret

For Chokey:


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

^ That thing is just killer looking, I saw it on their FB page this morning and I catching myself keep looking at it. There's gonna be so many amazing looking ones out soon so this is exciting to me


----------



## ferret

A lot of Vaders shown off in this Facebook video they just posted (Wish they would use youtube)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1559311031018860


----------



## Chokey Chicken

It fills me with warm fuzzy feelings. I really like seeing figured woods before I commit to a purchase, so I'd been worried since I ordered if it'd be alright. That top is beyond beautiful, imo, and I can't wait to see it in person. Thanks for posting the picture! I wasn't able to do anything with it from my phone's browser. Had to screenshot it to show my friends. lol

Edit: just watched the video. That Trans purple with the white pups is really nice. It's actually what I was initially going to order before deciding on burl.


----------



## HighGain510

That burl looks sick! The color and figure looks perfect man!


----------



## haymez

That purple... I've already ordered 2 of these, purple may be the third


----------



## mnemonic

TheManMadeMan said:


> My guitar just got posted guys! It looks great!



Oh me, oh my, thats amazing.

Its the exact finish I had in mind, should I get the chance to order one. Except I think I would have a maple-neck showing through, with no top.


----------



## spudmunkey

mnemonic said:


> Oh me, oh my, thats amazing.
> 
> Its the exact finish I had in mind, should I get the chance to order one. Except I think I would have a maple-neck showing through, with no top.



Keep in mind that the maple neck won't have the finish applied...it'll be clear maple. The AAT only is applied to, you guessed it, ash.

edit: wait...are the body wings something other than ash? Looks like it has the AAT finish on it, but the grain looks more alder-y.


----------



## mnemonic

spudmunkey said:


> Keep in mind that the maple neck won't have the finish applied...it'll be clear maple. The AAT only is applied to, you guessed it, ash.
> 
> edit: wait...are the body wings something other than ash? Looks like it has the AAT finish on it, but the grain looks more alder-y.



They won't apply the black stain to maple? If not, that complicates things. 

I do understand that a less porous wood like maple would take the stain differently, but a bright, clean, maple neck-thru would look out of place with the 'worn' look of that finish, imo.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

There's a picture of a vader on their facebook of the black stained ash with the neck wood just running through. I think it looks kind of neat, but understandably probably not everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## olejason

Chokey Chicken said:


> There's a picture of a vader on their facebook of the black stained ash with the neck wood just running through. I think it looks kind of neat, but understandably probably not everyone's cup of tea.



I thought that one looked pretty weird to be honest. Might be better once strings are on but there was something _off_ about that look for me at least.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

spudmunkey said:


> Keep in mind that the maple neck won't have the finish applied...it'll be clear maple. The AAT only is applied to, you guessed it, ash.
> 
> edit: wait...are the body wings something other than ash? Looks like it has the AAT finish on it, but the grain looks more alder-y.



Its an ash top with alder body, they can't bend the top that far, so it looks like that. I asked about it being changed to black, but I think it looks fine the way it is.


----------



## decreebass

So... seriously? Not even one NGD of these yet? (other than the endorsers, of course...)

I was really hoping to have mine before my show last night, but we killed it anyway. Used my DC800, DC7X, and JP13 7.

Oh well; I suspect in the next two weeks we'll see a whole slew of Vader NGDs. Hopefully one will be mine


----------



## TheManMadeMan

April 8th, is when they said I'll get mine.


----------



## HighGain510

decreebass said:


> So... seriously? Not even one NGD of these yet? (other than the endorsers, of course...)
> 
> I was really hoping to have mine before my show last night, but we killed it anyway. Used my DC800, DC7X, and JP13 7.
> 
> Oh well; I suspect in the next two weeks we'll see a whole slew of Vader NGDs. Hopefully one will be mine



Just not looking hard enough, I suppose... 

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/291955-ngd-vader-8-string-green-bonanza.html


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I wonder how many have shipped. They only got theirs cuz they could drive down and pick it up. That was long enough ago that others should be getting theirs soon/already have them. I demand more Vaders!


----------



## olejason

HighGain510 said:


> Just not looking hard enough, I suppose...
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/291955-ngd-vader-8-string-green-bonanza.html



Wow that green is much different than the photoshopped pictures on Carvin's site. I understand the need to make products look their best but they go a little overboard with the color editing IMO.


----------



## ferret

Quoting from CarvinBBS:



Koshchei said:


> Also: A bunch of them are now up in the galleries:
> 
> CARVIN.COM : CUSTOM SHOP V8 PHOTO GALLERY
> 
> CARVIN.COM : CUSTOM SHOP V7 PHOTO GALLERY
> 
> CARVIN.COM : CUSTOM SHOP V6 PHOTO GALLERY
> 
> Anybody want to identify theirs?


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Ok.. Dang I totally take back what I said about Carvin not intentionally photoshopping their guitars.. I know professional lighting and backgrounds have a lot to do with it but dang.. My green V8 looks nothing like it does in the photo gallery.. And neither does any of the other ones in person. That said, now I agree it's alittle overboard with the colors aswell.


----------



## Blasphemer

I want exactly this guy, just without the inlay.


----------



## decreebass

ferret said:


> Quoting from CarvinBBS:



ZOMG these:




















But... I gotta say; I don't get the hype with this one:




I feel like it was a mistake that was too expensive to scrap so they decided to do the opposite and promote the hell out of it lol. It's almost a Simpsons-esque approach to marketing! I mean, it's not horrible, but those brown streaks COMPLETELY ruin the aesthetic for me...


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That purple quilt really is something. If I ever have the spare cash, I'm ordering one just like it.

As for the last guitar, it's just personal preference. It's one of those things where the wood did something unique, and someone liked it so they gotta mention it. From the perspective of someone who doesn't like it, it sounds a little weird to hear someone hype it up as a desirable feature. I'm with you though. Not a huge fan of it. I don't think it's ugly or anything, but it's not entirely remarkable either. 'Course I'm not a huge fan of lighter bare wood tones. I like me some nude rosewood, wenge, or bubinga, but maple isn't my cup of tea outside certain guitar finger boards.


----------



## ferret

decreebass said:


> But... I gotta say; I don't get the hype with this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like it was a mistake that was too expensive to scrap so they decided to do the opposite and promote the hell out of it lol. It's almost a Simpsons-esque approach to marketing! I mean, it's not horrible, but those brown streaks COMPLETELY ruin the aesthetic for me...



Lol I've been thinking the same thing. I feel like Jeff somehow salesman'd up what seems to me a flawed piece of flamed maple into "this is really cool and unique!!"

Kudos.


----------



## HighGain510

Haha agreed... turning what could be viewed as a flaw into marketing hype is pretty funny.  Personally, I love the look of these two:












But I still think the whole marketing deal of "I pulled aside this REALLY UNIQUE PIECE OF MAPLE FOR A SPECIAL PROJECT!" makes me laugh quite a bit.  I dig how it looks personally, but I don't think it deserves any sort of "extra" cost or marketing over a normal flamed maple top without coloration/striations.  He's definitely big on marketing/hyping stuff, that's for certain.


----------



## WiseSplinter

I quite like the look of it, has almost a "bleached Koa" sort of appearance, if that makes sense. 
Though I would not pay extra for the streaks, they are not unwelcome either.

Vader GAS continues to grow...


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Isn't it a kiesel edition? Looks like it's got the kiesel treated fretboard, which looks to be flamed? I doubt the unique streaking makes up much of a price difference though. Unless someone picked it out, as unique wood choice adds a bit more work than just picking the next piece at the top of the pile.

I still wouldn't call it flawed. I mean, I would never put it on a guitar without consulting someone about it first since it is a departure from how flamed maple generally is expected to look, but I can totally see someone being way into it and paying extra to get it.


----------



## ferret

Kiesel treated fretboard can be done without a Kiesel Edition. That's something above and beyond this one. That said, it does seem Jeff personally handled this build.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

My apologies. It just seems that the vast majority of Kiesel Editions I've seen have had, among other things, the treated board. (which I personally think looks gaudy more times than not.) I'm a little out of the loop when it comes to properly distinguishing what's what. I thought anything that Jeff specced out was considered Kiesel edition, and he seems to enjoy doing those boards so I apparently added 2 to 2 and got 5. lol


----------



## ferret

Jeff has... interesting taste...


----------



## LoopQuantum

My bro got the Vader in question. It's at my desk right now, and it's unbelievably awesome. 

Super light, balanced, and resonant. Just a totally sick guitar. 

Why yes, I did take these with my phone!


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I meant to imply that this guitar is one that has one of the non-gaudy treated boards. It looks like flamed ebony.

edit:

Stupid roommate left his name logged in. Remind me to bludgeon him.


----------



## spudmunkey

TheManMadeMan said:


> Its an ash top with alder body, they can't bend the top that far, so it looks like that. I asked about it being changed to black, but I think it looks fine the way it is.



Oh, I'm not questioning that. I'm question what looks like the AAT finish on the alder. For example, on the guitar with ash wings and a maple neck-through shown below, they don't apply the AAT to the maple (or any other neck wood). Only the ash. The body wood of the guitar we're talking about, where you can see the body wings on the forearm contour, appears to be alder...but with the AAT finish applied.

Here is an example of what I'm referring to:







olejason said:


> Wow that green is much different than the photoshopped pictures on Carvin's site. I understand the need to make products look their best but they go a little overboard with the color editing IMO.



Generally, when I mention this observation on facebook, the post doesn't last long. They've been going WAAAY overboard lately with the saturation and contrast. The only way KRG could be as bright as it looks in their photos, would be if it was actually illuminated from within...if it gave off it's own light.

For example:


decreebass said:


> ZOMG these:



...are these:







A photographer friend, saw some of Carvin/Kiesel's recent photos, and said that the super cranked-up contrast and saturation hurt his eyes. But this is the worst offender of this group:



decreebass said:


>






decreebass said:


> But... I gotta say; I don't get the hype with this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like it was a mistake that was too expensive to scrap so they decided to do the opposite and promote the hell out of it lol. It's almost a Simpsons-esque approach to marketing! I mean, it's not horrible, but those brown streaks COMPLETELY ruin the aesthetic for me...



Oh, man I'm the complete opposite. One of the reasons I like Carvin/Kiesel's business model is the ability to make a unique instrument. Along those lines, I sometimes wish my flamed maple top had more "character." I mean, it's a gorgeous piece and all, but it's just...so uniform. Those brown streaks, to me, are a reminder of the uniqueness of real wood. But, too each his own!! I wouldn't be caught dead with a purple guitar...but I would happily pay extra for a piece of wood that doesn't look like the others. Same reason people are paying extra for _especially_ streaky ebony...not just rolling the dice on the possibility of streak, but specifically asking for, and paying for, MORE streaks.


----------



## illimmigrant

spudmunkey said:


> Generally, when I mention this observation on facebook, the post doesn't last long. They've been going WAAAY overboard lately with the saturation and contrast. The only way KRG could be as bright as it looks in their photos, would be if it was actually illuminated from within...if it gave off it's own light.
> 
> A photographer friend, saw some of Carvin/Kiesel's recent photos, and said that the super cranked-up contrast and saturation hurt his eyes.



I suppose it doesn't hurt their business enough to quit doing it, but I've seen several complains from people who ordered a color based on what they saw on the website and were disappointed when they received the guitar and opened the case. The darker colors in particular, like the deep reds, purples, blues, are way hyped on the site pictures.

I ordered a deep honey burst on mine and had to take it outside on a bright sunny day and still make the picture a tad brighter to make it look like the ones on the site. I had already done the research and expected that to be the case, so I had no issues. I'll try to take a couple of shots in natural light/unedited to compare to the site.

Most of the finishes do come out looking pretty amazing anyway, so you just have to be aware of what they do and what to expect.


----------



## ferret

https://instagram.com/p/0swHHPxF9w/
https://instagram.com/p/0snrIZhBKb/

Jeff just posted that, KRG Vader with Zebrawood from his phone.


----------



## ferret

Jeff dropped something interesting today on Facebook....

Turns out ALL Vaders have reinforcement rods in the neck. Previously it was believed only 27" models did.

Also interesting to me is that he's building his personal Vader 6 as 25.5"


----------



## SnowfaLL

I know, that makes me VERY interested in a Vader.. since I'm a 25.5" guy, and carbon rods is a big thing I want in my "travel" type guitar. Obviously, the Vader fits the travel/bring around situation perfectly. My concern is to get a chambered Vader, it reqrs a top on it, and then I'm getting into the pricerange I could be using on the CT7 I want. But in the end, I'd like to have both so I should probably just do it. Go all out on a V7 this year and a CT7 next year..

Been thinking up specs all night.. the finish and top wood choice is the hardest part for me. I'm leaning towards a Black Limba top with Nightburst maybe, since the black limba aquaburst Vanquish bass on the fb page looks so awesome.

Btw, has anyone ordered a chambered vader?? I'm wondering how loud it is unplugged. If its just like a normal solid body, or if it has a big more sound to it due to the chambering. That'd make a big difference for me, since I have to potentially sail in the future (for my job) and having a headless (for space) that can be heard without an amp would be ideal.


----------



## yingmin

ferret said:


> https://instagram.com/p/0swHHPxF9w/
> https://instagram.com/p/0snrIZhBKb/
> 
> Jeff just posted that, KRG Vader with Zebrawood from his phone.



That's a pretty comical string of hashtags.


----------



## ferret

Kiesel and Co LOVE hashtags.


----------



## olejason

I think they're quickly reaching the point where the marketing, photoshops, and hype building is going to be too much and will start creating negative reactions for the brand from some players. It's a tough balance for companies to achieve.


----------



## DMCrimson

What are the controls like? I noticed that Carvin says the guitar has a 5-way switch despite having two humbuckers, is there some coil-splitting going on?


----------



## spudmunkey

decreebass said:


> ZOMG these:







[/IMG]


----------



## ferret

Looks better unshopped.


----------



## decreebass

ferret said:


> Looks better unshopped.



lol nope. I have to disagree. That was my beef with my 7X. I expected the shopped color's brightness and I got a guitar that needs EXTREMELY bright lights to bring out the color. I would drool out of my wee wee for the shopped version but be pissed when the unshopped version showed up at my doorstep. This is all, of course, hyperbole, because I'd play the hell out of even the ugliest Vader but the point stands that they do go a bit overboard with the 'shopping.

Anyway, anyone else gotten their guitar or shipping confirmation? Tomorrow will make 8 weeks since the order was placed and I was under the impression I was pretty high up on the ordering list. I'm not being impatient, just thought for sure I'd have it in my dirty mitts by now - or at least have shipping confirmation or at least have seen it on their FB page.

To be honest, I'd even be okay with no email confirmation and just come home to it sitting on my doorstep 

Then again, it rains a lot here...


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm still (im)patiently waiting for mine even after it popped up on Facebook a week or so back. It was estimated completed on the first, but I'm hoping that's when it arrives since I have that day off from work.


----------



## decreebass

Chokey Chicken said:


> I'm still (im)patiently waiting for mine even after it popped up on Facebook a week or so back. It was estimated completed on the first, but I'm hoping that's when it arrives since I have that day off from work.



Which one was yours?

I can't wait to start seeing NGDs of the ones popping up on FB. I'm sure not everyone who orders them is an active member of this or possibly any other guitar forum though. I wonder how many are just going to disappear into oblivion because of this little fact? I may start a Vader Appreciation page on my blog and hoard every pic of the Vader I can find. Might be a fun little project


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Mine was the burl night burst 7. Ferret posted the picture on page 51 of this thread.

I'm also willing to bet most will vanish to the wind. Damn shame, because I'd like to see what people manage to do with them.


----------



## ferret

I'm a garbage player. So maybe not a play test from me. Too nerve wrecking to play my badly mangled scales. I just like nice guitars. 

I shall make many photos.

Uuugh the wait is the worst at the end.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'll upload pics and I intended to re-record a track of mine with it for an audio demo. I'll actually see about getting the drums/bass retracked tonight so I can just slap the guitar recording over it the day it comes in. 

You're not kidding. I swear I'm developing ulcers from the anticipation. Custom orders aren't for me. lol


----------



## ferret

NGD over on CarvinBBS. This is the forest burst spalted V8.

CarvinGuitars.com BBS :: View topic - NGD: Vader V8


----------



## Mike

I'm sorry, but I think their photoshopping is akin to:












Not as extreme obviously as you're not getting something that in reality looks bad, but they do go a little overboard with some of these finishes to the point that it almost just looks like something completely computer generated.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That's a pretty bad example, though I did laugh. The pictures they artificially accent are still pictures of the exact guitar. It's weird that they .... with it so bad because the actual guitars are just as nice looking, just not quite the same color. I hope they take pictures of mine so I can compare it to how it actually looks.

Also, I bet that muddled sandwich is just as delicious as that nice looking one, if that even is a real sandwich in the first pic.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

I don't get why they do that. The guitars look great as is. Why not show customers what they are really getting. 

I am really close to putting in an order on a 7 string Vader. I'll probably do it this month.


----------



## JSanta

Yeah, so I just got off the phone with Carvin and ordered my V7. 

Specs:

Chambered Mahogany body and Maple neck

Aquaburst Finish on quilted maple

25.5" scale

Stainless Medium Jumbo Frets

I play mostly jazz stuff, but I miss playing rock and metal, so this guitar will let me play jazz when I want but plug into some distortion as well.

Quick question: would this work to hang the guitar on the wall? Not sure if anyone has tried it yet. http://www.amazon.com/String-Swing-...6&sr=8-7&keywords=string+swing+guitar+hangers


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'd imagine it's your only option for a wall hanger, and it should in fact work.


----------



## decreebass

Ahhh Finally saw mine on FB. Soon, my pretty, soon...


----------



## JSanta

decreebass said:


> Ahhh Finally saw mine on FB. Soon, my pretty, soon...



Looks incredible!


----------



## decreebass

Hopefully this is one that they'll take multiple angles of. With the rear natural clear over the antique ash finish, as well as the walnut/maple neck and body binding effect on the bevel, this should be a pretty sick beast all around. Even if they don't, I'll have an NGD post up by this time next week (hopefully) with a hoard of pics


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Here's to hoping you're right for both of us. I sent an email and was told mine just needed hardware and a final setup, which is pretty much all it looked to need a couple weeks ago. Been bummed seeing folks who ordered after me get them before me, but that's just me being impatient. lol


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Chokey Chicken said:


> Here's to hoping you're right for both of us. I sent an email and was told mine just needed hardware and a final setup, which is pretty much all it looked to need a couple weeks ago. Been bummed seeing folks who ordered after me get them before me, but that's just me being impatient. lol



Me and you are in the same boat dude. At least they will ship soon, it won't be too much longer now.


----------



## ferret

Word is mine hit the paint room today. Getting close! About a week more or so.

Sounds like they're still having a bit of supply problem with both Hipshot and pickups. Jeff said they're barely getting enough of the new pickups built to fulfill orders right now.


----------



## Cloudy

ferret said:


> Word is mine hit the paint room today. Getting close! About a week more or so.
> 
> Sounds like they're still having a bit of supply problem with both Hipshot and pickups. Jeff said they're barely getting enough of the new pickups built to fulfill orders right now.



Yeah sounds like the whole shop is being slowed down by inability to keep up with demand, seymour duncan is having issues fulfilling the JB24 pickup orders as well.

Looks like NAMM got them a lot of orders


----------



## JSanta

It's funny for me that the first nice guitar I ever bought was in in-stock DC400TA, and it's been the only guitar I've actually kept. Why it took me so long to order another Carvin is beyond me!

I remember about 5-8 years ago, Carvin's were not seen at as being on the same level as many of the other American guitar manufacturers. I am glad we've seen this surge in interest in the brand because they really do make great products. I even used one of their solid state amps that was quite cheap but had monster tone. Now they need to release a 7 string semi-hollow and I won't ever buy from another brand again


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

ferret said:


> Word is mine hit the paint room today. Getting close! About a week more or so.
> 
> Sounds like they're still having a bit of supply problem with both Hipshot and pickups. Jeff said they're barely getting enough of the new pickups built to fulfill orders right now.



Your damn right! I went in there today to see what the deal is cause mine as well as like 15 other V7's are done and ready except for the dang hipshot bridges not being in yet, they said they will maybe know on Monday but that's even unsure when they'll be in. It is the 8 week mark this week for most of us who put down orders on Feb 2nd, and won't get them till week 9 or 10 so that kinda blows even though most of them were basically finished 2 weeks ago...


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I figured as much. Mine looks like it would have been done forever ago if not for the bridge. I caved and ordered a second guitar to hold me over though, so the sting has been relieved for the moment. Desperately hoping next week is when I get it though.


----------



## Andromalia

Didn't see it mentioned, Carvin site for direct orders from europe is up. Prices look attractive, I wish their guitar builder would actually show even a basic mockup of the guitar though.


----------



## mnemonic

Andromalia said:


> Didn't see it mentioned, Carvin site for direct orders from europe is up. Prices look attractive, I wish their guitar builder would actually show even a basic mockup of the guitar though.



Cool, prices look good. $250 shipping for international buyers. I wonder if that includes insurance, etc. Also I wonder how much of a pain VAT and duty will be. It can quickly become not so great a deal.


----------



## Andromalia

VAT should be 25%ish (depends slightly on country) of price+shipping+tax, the tax usually being 2%. So for a 1500$ order it ends up as 
1500+250+import tax x1.25 plus the bank's fee for paying in dollars.
Having shipped guitars in the US and australia from and to France 250$ shipping is a bit of a ripoff though.
I'm currently fishing for a 7 but I think at this point I'll check how that Inny fanned proto is going to come to market and the price attached.


----------



## mnemonic

Just did a bit more research, for the UK at least, its 20% VAT, 3.7% Duty, and from memory, VAT and Duty are calculated on the total price, including any shipping/insurance costs. 

So I spec'd out a fairly bare-bones Vader V7, which costs $1,390.



> $1,390	Guitar Price
> $250 International Shipping
> $1,640	Subtotal
> 
> $328 20% VAT
> $60.68	3.7% Duty
> 
> $2,028.68 Total Guitar Price (USD)
> £1,359.71 Total Guitar Price (GBP)




Overall, not too bad for the UK. I think I spent around that on my Mayones Setius, though I can't remember exactly anymore. Though if I do place an order, I'll be a bit salty about paying $638.68 (£428) on shipping + taxman.


----------



## SnowfaLL

mnemonic said:


> Just did a bit more research, for the UK at least, its 20% VAT, 3.7% Duty, and from memory, VAT and Duty are calculated on the total price, including any shipping/insurance costs.
> 
> So I spec'd out a fairly bare-bones Vader V7, which costs $1,390.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, not too bad for the UK. I think I spent around that on my Mayones Setius, though I can't remember exactly anymore. Though if I do place an order, I'll be a bit salty about paying $638.68 (£428) on shipping + taxman.



It's not fun, but worth it for a Carvin. I ended up paying $120 for Cdn shipping, and $480 for customs/taxes last year. Now apparently they've just changed to FedEx so it's slightly better for Canadians, but we've been screwed lately with UPS as their only option.


----------



## Cloudy

UPS has a heafty brokerage fee, Fedex and USPS are a bit more merciful.

Living in Canada sucks sometimes. Damn you GAS.


----------



## HighGain510

I love how originally the prime complaint from international buyers was that Carvin wouldn't sell direct to Europe/Asia at the same pricepoint we get in the USA and the dealers/carvin international site charged too much. Now the prices are made identical to what we pay finally, but the taxes and shipping are too high?  I mean, I feel your pain and all as I think VAT is nonsense honestly, but unless the international dealers were not making you pay VAT on orders before, I would think you are getting a much better deal now that they're offering to give you identical prices to what US customers pay (minus the VAT/your county's own taxation), right?  I doubt it's much different than most other manufacturers where you got stuck eating VAT on those too.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yeah, taxes suck, but at least it sucks less than indirectly paying it plus the up charge for a dealer to make profit. I haven't really seen anyone complain about it like the KM7's though. That was irritating to listen to. lol


----------



## Enselmis

SnowfaLL said:


> It's not fun, but worth it for a Carvin. I ended up paying $120 for Cdn shipping, and $480 for customs/taxes last year. Now apparently they've just changed to FedEx so it's slightly better for Canadians, but we've been screwed lately with UPS as their only option.



As of a week ago, they still use UPS for Canada. I recommend brokering it yourself. I paid maybe half of what it would have cost if they had done it for me. It's super easy.


----------



## Cloudy

Enselmis said:


> As of a week ago, they still use UPS for Canada. I recommend brokering it yourself. I paid maybe half of what it would have cost if they had done it for me. It's super easy.



Chris confirmed they're now using fedex. Must be a really recent change


----------



## RPG_Guitars

Chambered swamp ash body, Burled maple top with deep triple stained translucent moss green top back & sides, 5 piece walnut mahogany neck, tung oil finish on the neck, jumbo SS frets, rosewood knobs, gold Kiesel drop shadow logo. Playing to win!!!!


----------



## HighGain510

Cloudy said:


> Chris confirmed they're now using fedex. Must be a really recent change



Now if only they would use FedEx for US orders...


----------



## Andromalia

HighGain510 said:


> I love how originally the prime complaint from international buyers was that Carvin wouldn't sell direct to Europe/Asia at the same pricepoint we get in the USA and the dealers/carvin international site charged too much. Now the prices are made identical to what we pay finally, but the taxes and shipping are too high?



I'm all for the VAT (that's why we have social security while you have 10% of your population on food tickets) but I have shipped enough guitars to and from the USA to know that this is a grossly inflated shipping price, especially considering as a company they get rebates and stuff. Correct pricing for a guitar in its case with insurance is 120ish$ for a private individual without access to any bulk prices.


----------



## sartorious

Andromalia said:


> I'm all for the VAT (that's why we have social security while you have 10% of your population on food tickets)



I'm sure you find your socioeconomic analysis brilliant and ethical. But please keep it off this thread.




> Correct pricing for a guitar in its case with insurance is 120ish$ for a private individual without access to any bulk prices.



"Correct"? Perhaps it is what you would like, or perhaps it is a more accurate price with no profit or cushion. Correctness has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

HighGain510 said:


> Now if only they would use FedEx for US orders...



Do they use ups? I must be the only person who prefers that. FedEx blows in my experience. Lost packages, damaged packages and they show up between 4 and 8 pm whereas ups shows up reliably at noon and our driver is super friendly and courteous with the packages.


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> Do they use ups? I must be the only person who prefers that. FedEx blows in my experience. Lost packages, damaged packages and they show up between 4 and 8 pm whereas ups shows up reliably at noon and our driver is super friendly and courteous with the packages.



Unless they changed everyone over to FedEx in the last week, they were still using UPS as of February when my DC800 shipped. It varies state to state, but in my experience both in Pennsylvania and in Virginia, UPS sucked total balls (lost packages, broken gear, signature-required packages worth $10K left sitting out at my doorstep without signature for 6 hours in the middle of the day... ) whereas FedEx I've only had a single problem in 15+ YEARS of voluminous package shipping/receiving. YMMV and all, but UPS has sucked for me and typically even on coast-to-coast shipping, FedEx gets the packages here earlier.  My UPS drivers in this area either show up at noon or 8-9pm (I kid you not) which is pretty ridiculous, and when deliveries are supposed to happen by COB, 8pm NGD's or release-day game deliveries are not something I'm thrilled about.


----------



## HighGain510

Andromalia said:


> *I'm all for the VAT (that's why we have social security while you have 10% of your population on food tickets)* but I have shipped enough guitars to and from the USA to know that this is a grossly inflated shipping price, especially considering as a company they get rebates and stuff. Correct pricing for a guitar in its case with insurance is 120ish$ for a private individual without access to any bulk prices.



Not relevant, this isn't P&CE. If you have an issue with what they charge for shipping, by all means band together and tell them you won't stand for it.  I know how much it costs to ship a guitar internationally, but I'm also a private seller, not a corporation. My guess is part of that is because they have a shipping department they have to pay to get your boxes packed and shipped and those guys likely don't work for free...


----------



## MetalBuddah

Ordered one about 2 weeks ago and these are my specs...

-V7
-Swamp Ash Body
-Maple Neck
-27" Scale
-Maple Top
-Clear Satin Matte Finish
-Seafoam Green (Top Only)
-Rear Body/Neck Natural Clear
-Zebrawood Fretboard
-No Top Inlays
-Stainless Steel Jumbo Frets
-White Pickups
White Logo
-Dunlop Straplocks

Grand total of $1,544. Not bad at all for these specs  The anticipation is killing me. This is my first Carvin ever. 

Basically this but with a clear back!


----------



## HighGain510

^That should be rather tasty! I'm digging my DC800 quite a bit, depending on whether or not I love the Vader 6, I might end up with a Vader 8 eventually too!


----------



## technomancer

*Just a heads up, this thread is about the new Vader model. If you want to complain about shipping costs or taxes in your country take it somewhere else please. I believe there are already several threads to complain about Carvin shipping costs.*


----------



## TheUnvanquished

I plan on specing out a vader like the one pictured above as well. My only difference would be a black logo, black pickups, and a satin SURF green body (paint all over), instead of that seafoam green. Yup. I've got it all planned out. Just short a grand and a half or so of dough. Bummer.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

HighGain510 said:


> Unless they changed everyone over to FedEx in the last week, they were still using UPS as of February when my DC800 shipped. It varies state to state, but in my experience both in Pennsylvania and in Virginia, UPS sucked total balls (lost packages, broken gear, signature-required packages worth $10K left sitting out at my doorstep without signature for 6 hours in the middle of the day... ) whereas FedEx I've only had a single problem in 15+ YEARS of voluminous package shipping/receiving. YMMV and all, but UPS has sucked for me and typically even on coast-to-coast shipping, FedEx gets the packages here earlier.  My UPS drivers in this area either show up at noon or 8-9pm (I kid you not) which is pretty ridiculous, and when deliveries are supposed to happen by COB, 8pm NGD's or release-day game deliveries are not something I'm thrilled about.



Gotcha. I guess my UPS guy is just one of the swell ones. I wonder how many douches fondle my packages before it gets to RI. I've had similar experiences with fedex (albeit cheaper packages), but I won't go into it. One way or another, I'll have my hands on the stupid thing hopefully sometime this week. Been checking my e-mails far too frequently, especially if you consider that it's not guaranteed I'll even get an e-mail telling me it's shipped.


----------



## InfestedRabite

do the 25' (or is it 25.5'?) models look any different to the 27's?


----------



## Chokey Chicken

They have a tiny little bit extra scooped out from between the bottom strap buttons. (so as to move the bridge forward a tad) Otherwise I'm pretty sure they're identical.

edit: This is one of the 25 inch scale ones.


----------



## spudmunkey

I think Jeff, in something either on Facebook or Instagram, made a point of mentioning that the bodies of the 25 and 27 are the same. Rather than re-shaping the body and changing it's proportions for the different scale, they just moved the bridge in.


----------



## HighGain510

Just realized today, 4/6/15, was the estimated completion date on my Vader 6'er order.  Betting it's tied to the Hipshot delay/bridge side change and the surge of orders right after NAMM. Hopefully I see that satin green goodness hitting their Facebook feed soon! Getting antsy for my travel guitar over here!


----------



## ferret

Chokey, you got hardware! Shouldn't be long....


----------



## Chokey Chicken

My day has been made! It also means that a bunch of others are probably right alongside it.


----------



## Cloudy

any of you guys ?


----------



## HighGain510

Not mine.


----------



## Cloudy

HighGain510 said:


> Not mine.



Ive been obsessively checking the kiesel facebook page for about 3 weeks now looking for my JB24  I know that feel.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

As noted above, the burl is mine and I'm friggin' excited that it finally has its hardware. 

I also really like the flame on that green one. Looks like wrinkly silk or something.


----------



## SnowfaLL

That green flame is amazing. So is the burl, but any burl is amazing (I've really digged that orange burl vader) - I've decided on a Sapphire Blue stain over a Mahogany top I believe.. It's a bit more for my "barebones" Vader but I think it'll be worth it overall. Giving myself a final week to think it over before pulling the trigger.

Gonna Opt 50 it asking to get some streaky mahogany like this.. That's the goal:


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Hot damn, just got a shipment email from Carvin! Here's hoping it arrives on Friday since I have the day off and will be able to give it a proper playing.

edit: Also, for anyone interested it shipped via UPS and not FedEx, so US orders still apparently go through UPS. (signature required as well.)

Edit edit: somehow blanked that they shipped ups ground out of Cali, so it'll likely be here Tuesday.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

Mines the moss green one, been playing it like a madman, I'll put an NGD up for it as soon as I can put it down.. It is KILLER!!


----------



## TheManMadeMan

My completion date is today, so hopefully I get a shipping notification soon.


----------



## ferret

Mine was in the paint room last Friday, needed buffing and hardware, so fingers crossed maybe end of week...


----------



## ferret

Then my phone buzzes again, Chris Hong has tagged you in a photo..... I pause my movie, jump up and head to the PC to check it out!

.....


----------



## S-O

Reminds me of






But in guitar form.


----------



## JLocrian

That's amazing


----------



## ferret

Sorry to spam, but now Mike Jones unleashed this....


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Well, it _is_ what you asked for.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Got my shipping notification! Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Alberto7

LEL that is amazing.  Kizzle Gitarz


----------



## InfestedRabite

can't help but think that Kizzle Guitars is how Australians would say it


----------



## Hollowway

InfestedRabite said:


> can't help but think that Kizzle Guitars is how Australians would say it



You mean Kizzle Guitahs.


----------



## InfestedRabite

Hollowway said:


> You mean Kizzle Guitahs.



Gizzus a Kizzle, maaaate.


----------



## crystallake

Here's a nice V7 that was posted on FB today.



> V7 Custom black cherry Caliburst over ash body with antique ash treatment and Kiesel treated board and Kiesel Pick ups!


----------



## ferret

Credit card charged guys. Uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhghhh. If they ship today... maybe Saturday?


----------



## asher

InfestedRabite said:


> can't help but think that Kizzle Guitars is how Australians would say it



Kizzle fo' shizzle, yo.


----------



## HighGain510

Anyone see a bright green V6 with a maple board in today's batch by any chance?   I GOT THAT ANTSY FEELING!!!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

ferret said:


> Credit card charged guys. Uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhghhh. If they ship today... maybe Saturday?



I demand, probably not the first time, many pictures. Preferably in good lighting, as I've been super excited about seeing yours.


----------



## HighGain510

Guess they managed to sneak my bright green monster right past Chris and the daily fb picture updates as my card was auto-billed yesterday and I received a FedEx tracking update (YAY!) so looks like another Vader has left the factory and should arrive next week!


----------



## Inceptic

Does anyone know if it's possible to order a Carvin with Bare Knuckle Pickups?


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

Inceptic said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to order a Carvin with Bare Knuckle Pickups?



I believe they will install them if you send the pickups in yourself. They don't install covered pickups as far as I know.

That being said, their new pickups are great and swapping pickups is incredibly easy. If I were you I would wait and if you don't like the carvin pickups you can swap them out later and sell them to recoup some of the cost of the BKP's.


----------



## HighGain510

Inceptic said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to order a Carvin with Bare Knuckle Pickups?



I **THINK** I've heard of folks being allowed to ship the pickups to Carvin/Kiesel and have them install them for you. That being said, I don't know that Kiesel would want to handle the logistics of "holding" a bunch of random BKPs if this becomes common practice/the norm and then having orders get the wrong pickups or pickups go missing and having to eat $3-400 to order a new set for customers...   Best option is to call up Kiesel and ask for Chris H. and see what their policy is as of today since things always change. 


Also just for general notice - not sure if that other gent got his shipped out on UPS was the last of it but my Vader is coming via FedEx so it seems like (hopefully? ) they HAVE in fact moved to FedEx for shipping perhaps? I'd be curious for some of the other guys who had their guitar shipped late last week or is being shipped this week or next to chime in to let us know how theirs are coming. 

It would be great news (again just IMHO) if they switch to FedEx as it's much nicer having the option of holding the package at a store for pickup since UPS Stores charge a fee for that if you're not going to the depot to pick it up but FedEx does not. I think it is also nice because you know the FedEx stores are climate-controlled so if you're like me and you pick up at the end of the work day, that usually means your guitar has been sitting in a 60-70 degree room for a couple hours acclimating to normal local temps/humidity!  Helps to shorten that waiting time especially in the winter months when people get antsy on new guitar day!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Perhaps I lucked out with getting ups then, and we can both be happy. lol I'm so stoked that tomorrow is the day. The wife will be home to accept the package, and I get out of work a few hours after it arrives so it gets to acclimatize for a bit before I get home. Then I have two days off to play around with it. So excited!


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

HighGain510 said:


> I **THINK** I've heard of folks being allowed to ship the pickups to Carvin/Kiesel and have them install them for you. That being said, I don't know that Kiesel would want to handle the logistics of "holding" a bunch of random BKPs if this becomes common practice/the norm and then having orders get the wrong pickups or pickups go missing and having to eat $3-400 to order a new set for customers...   Best option is to call up Kiesel and ask for Chris H. and see what their policy is as of today since things always change.
> 
> 
> Also just for general notice - not sure if that other gent got his shipped out on UPS was the last of it but my Vader is coming via FedEx so it seems like (hopefully? ) they HAVE in fact moved to FedEx for shipping perhaps? I'd be curious for some of the other guys who had their guitar shipped late last week or is being shipped this week or next to chime in to let us know how theirs are coming.
> 
> It would be great news (again just IMHO) if they switch to FedEx as it's much nicer having the option of holding the package at a store for pickup since UPS Stores charge a fee for that if you're not going to the depot to pick it up but FedEx does not. I think it is also nice because you know the FedEx stores are climate-controlled so if you're like me and you pick up at the end of the work day, that usually means your guitar has been sitting in a 60-70 degree room for a couple hours acclimating to normal local temps/humidity!  Helps to shorten that waiting time especially in the winter months when people get antsy on new guitar day!



I agree completely about fedex. Whenever I have a guitar shipped via fedex I always do the store pickup option.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Chokey Chicken said:


> Perhaps I lucked out with getting ups then, and we can both be happy. lol I'm so stoked that tomorrow is the day. The wife will be home to accept the package, and I get out of work a few hours after it arrives so it gets to acclimatize for a bit before I get home. Then I have two days off to play around with it. So excited!



Have you gotten updates from UPS? I haven't gotten any, it still says order has been processed. UPS is really bad for not updating sometimes.


----------



## ferret

Mine shipped with Fedex, and Chris H confirmed in email that future shipping will be Fedex. We may be in the tail end of the transition so some folks still got UPS last week.

Fedex tracking says Candy Tangerine arrives tomorrow, guyyys.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

TheManMadeMan said:


> Have you gotten updates from UPS? I haven't gotten any, it still says order has been processed. UPS is really bad for not updating sometimes.



They don't update frequently, my last scan was departing from California, but it does have tracking history. Depending on when yours shipped, weekends tend not to have updates so it might show something today or tonight for you.


----------



## SnowfaLL

might of been end of fiscal year that the contract with UPS ends?? Either way, I'm super stoked to get a guitar from FedEx when shipping into Canada! Even USPS/Canada post is getting ridiculous lately, I ordered a $60 guitar part and just had to pay $19 customs on it with USPS! =[


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Stupid guitar is in Shrewsbury Mass right now. So damn close I can taste it.


----------



## ferret

Oh my. I might get mine before you  IT'S RACE NOW.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

Man, I would've ordered one of these for my birthday had I known they existed. 

Oh well. I guess I know where my tax return is going: to my first 7 string guitar after 8 years on this website.


----------



## decreebass

Posted my NGD here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...-vader-v8-blue-flame-madness.html#post4350844

But here's a taste:


----------



## TheManMadeMan

MY VADER WILL BE IN MY HANDS TOMORROW/TODAY. YASSSSS

NGD Wednesday! I'm so happy.


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> Stupid guitar is in Shrewsbury Mass right now. So damn close I can taste it.





ferret said:


> Oh my. I might get mine before you  IT'S RACE NOW.





TheManMadeMan said:


> MY VADER WILL BE IN MY HANDS TOMORROW/TODAY. YASSSSS
> 
> NGD Wednesday! I'm so happy.



I'm in the same boat! Mine shows it departed the major hub in MD and says it will be delivered today... typically when it hits that hub they don't take it to the good hub down here, so my guess is tomorrow will be NGD for me! Either way, FedEx got it here in 4-5 DAYS (not business days) which is fantastic!  If it comes today I'm going to have a serious dilemma as Mortal Kombat X drops today and I need to go pick up my Limited Edition copy....  



decreebass said:


> Posted my NGD here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...-vader-v8-blue-flame-madness.html#post4350844
> 
> But here's a taste:



Did they scrape/scratch the wood in two spots on the 24th fret under the high B string when they were polishing the frets?


----------



## Chokey Chicken

On vehicle for delivery! I'm so tempted to call out of work! 

3 o'clock this afternoon, the wait will finally be over for me. I can finally let go of all of this anxiety I've had built up for the past couple months. I don't know how folks do this with 1-2 year waiting times.


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> On vehicle for delivery! I'm so tempted to call out of work!
> 
> 3 o'clock this afternoon, the wait will finally be over for me. I can finally let go of all of this anxiety I've had built up for the past couple months. I don't know how folks do this with 1-2 year waiting times.



Mine just updated as well, it's in VA and redirected to the FedEx Office already! WOOT WOOT! SON I AM EXCITE!


----------



## HighGain510

I think my plan of attack, assuming the guitar hits the store by the time I'm heading home, is to pick up both items (conveniently both in the same shopping center?! HAPPY ACCIDENTS FTW! ) and take them straight home... pop in the disc for MKX and let that install while I unbox and jam on the Vader 6'er!  Should make for an awesome evening!  Did I mention I'm excited for my Vader 6'er yet?


----------



## haymez

I see sick days in y'alls immediate future... I have 4 more weeks to wait on mine and vacation days are already scheduled.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

GAS was too strong. Left work early. No regrets. I've had honeymoon phases before, but this is different. When people say they're light, they're not kidding. It sounds great unplugged too. It came in tuned up perfectly which is a first to me. Whether that's luck or how stable the neck is I couldn't say but I'm impressed. I'll be posting an ngd in the near future. Whoever is waiting for one of these things is in for a hell of a fun time.


----------



## ferret

Delivered, but 3-4 more hours before I can get home and open.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

NGD thread posted. Now pardon me while I vanish for the next month playing this thing.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/293357-ngd-kiesel-vader-7-a.html


----------



## ferret

We have landed.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/standard-guitars/293369-ngd-kiesel-v6-25-5-candy-tangerine.html


----------



## mr coffee

Seriously on the fence right now between a V8 and a DC800. I'm getting one or the other and soon...I'm still kinda leaning toward the DC, I think the V might be a bit much of a departure for me in terms of ergonomics to make that the one I test the waters with. But maaaaaaan, those are some tasty lookin' guitars. If I had it, I'd just get one of each. 

HNGD, guys.

-m


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Missed the UPS truck, redelivery tomorrow. Sucks.


----------



## HighGain510

FedEx got mine to the FedEx Office store so it could be held for pickup and I snatched it up on my drive home from work, just another reason I'm thrilled about the switch as it will make future Carvin NGD's much easier on me since I don't have to worry about being home for delivery!  I'll do a full NGD when I have time to get good pics with my SLR (it was completely overcast and raining yesterday so not optimal conditions ), but I snapped a few quick shots last night:

Full guitar:






Body shot:







"Headstock" endcap:







Evo Gold Jumbo frets:







So far? LOVE IT.  Chambered 6'er so it's REALLY light, it's not quite as crazy resonant as my Strandbergs but you can still feel the vibrations running through the body and it is fairly loud unplugged too.  Have not tried it with a strap yet, seems a few folks are saying it balances best with the lower button, unfortunately they didn't put the Dunlop Straplocks on mine like I ordered so I'm waiting for Chris to fire those out to me so I can remedy that issue and start using my strap with this one.  I'll comment on that once I am able to do that, all of my straps have either Dunlop or Schaller locks on them so I can't really test that out until I get the straplocks on the guitar unfortunately.  As most of you know the green fretboard dot option was pulled on my build mid-way through which I thought was going to be a bummer since I love the matching KRG block inlays on my DC800, but honestly I was given a very nice looking birdseye maple board so I'm really not minding the lack of the matching fretboard dots. They were able to do the matching KRG side dots which is great as they pop against the maple, so I'm happy there! 

The Kiesel pickups in both my DC800 and this Vader 6 are excellent, definitely on the modern side as far as the overall tonality goes but they split very well and handle both clean and high gain applications equally well. I'm definitely a fan of the new Kiesel passive pickups, it's nice to see guitars in this price range coming with stock pickups (built in-house, no less ) that don't immediately need to be yanked out!  The worst part about this is now I'm getting GAS for a Vader 8...  

Also wanted to say thanks again to Chris Hong! I've ordered through a lot of guys at Carvin/Kiesel over the years (been playing Carvin since I was in high school/college ) and so far my experiences with him have been the best yet. Highly recommend giving him a call if you're looking to order a Kiesel or Carvin guitar, he's a great guy to work with!


----------



## HighGain510

Biggest thing I forgot to mention before was the body size! It's perfect!  I absolutely LOVE the tone and playability of the Carvin Headless Holdsworth sig, I've owned at least 3 or 4 of them now and played with a strap I don't typically have a problem (despite them looking a little goofy since the body is so small ). When I practice I'm usually sitting down and for me personally, the tiny body is always what kills me on the HH model. I always feel like it's slipping out of my lap if I'm not hunched over to keep it propped up in place. The Vader body size is much more normal so it feels VERY natural to sit and play it, so since that was one of my own concerns initially I figured I'd throw that out there for anyone else who was curious!  

One of my favorite things about my Strandberg is the ergo design that lets you prop the guitar up for classical position playing and you can still kinda do that with this one, although your leg is resting against the tuners in that position so I'm not sure if that's optimal obviously.  Speaking of which, the tuners! Hipshot's headless hardtail bridge is awesome! The tuners turn VERY smoothly, there is no hex-shaped cut-out on the inside like the Strandberg tuners however because they turn so freely and the outside barrel is knurled, there is really no need as far as I can tell.  Kudos to Hipshot, they designed yet another quality bridge, and it was great to see how quickly they turned around the design change proposed by Kiesel once we all pointed out the original side walls of the bridge were not optimal for palm muting and overall comfort.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I think green dots might have spoiled the aesthetics now that I'm looking at it. The maple board looks really cool against the green of the body.

Edit: also! Those gold frets = yum.


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> I think green dots might have spoiled the aesthetics now that I'm looking at it. The maple board looks really cool against the green of the body.
> 
> Edit: also! Those gold frets = yum.



Totally agree, thinking now it was a blessing in disguise as that might have been too over-the-top. I wish I had known zebra pickups were an option, I think that would have tied in the maple board even further!  Not the end of the world as the double-black bobbins work just fine, but thinking out loud here!  The Evo Gold frets do indeed look fantastic! I noticed decreebass said his frets weren't polished and I was worried about mine showing up sloppy but nope! They're fully polished and no dead frets anywhere on the board!  Had me worried there for a minute!


----------



## kevdes93

Love it! hated the Kiesel racing green on the first vader model they showed, but it has a whole different look with the BEM fretboard


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Never looked into evo gold frets before. Is my brief research correct in telling me it's between standard and stainless steel frets in hardness, and gold all the way through? I'm considering a V8 for next year and gold frets sound dandy.


----------



## ferret

The color (Not gold but some alloy) does go all the way through, so the color doesn't wear off.


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> Never looked into evo gold frets before. Is my brief research correct in telling me it's between standard and stainless steel frets in hardness, and gold all the way through? I'm considering a V8 for next year and gold frets sound dandy.





ferret said:


> The color (Not gold but some alloy) does go all the way through, so the color doesn't wear off.



Correct - the alloy is completed gold in color and the hardness is between standard nickel silver fretwire and stainless steel fretwire. It looks awesome when crowned and polished up, speaking from firsthand experience!  Loved the way it looks and against maple it really pops!  A guitar with gold hardware and a dark fretboard would look fantastic with the evo gold frets too!


----------



## TemjinStrife

Man, that anemic lower horn just kills it for me


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That's what I thought. I think the place I found info on said it's copper/copper based alloy. Much nicer than gold plated. Nothing looks cheaper than worn plating.


----------



## spudmunkey

Gold frets are also not _quite_ as gold as gold-plated hardware, but a trade off is that it won't wear/rub off over time.


----------



## feraledge

I have to admit, I've NEVER liked headless guitars, but there's some odd appeal here. Has me keeping an eye out on these. Maybe when y'all start selling them in a few months I'll try one out.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

It came! I'll get better pictures and do a NGD later. So far this is the best guitar I've ever played. Money well spent.


----------



## mr coffee

I gotta stop hangin' around in here, this is NOT helping my GAS.

-m


----------



## decreebass

HighGain510 said:


> Did they scrape/scratch the wood in two spots on the 24th fret under the high B string when they were polishing the frets?



It would appear so; but they're very light scratches - shame that the frets aren't a bit shinier to justify it haha. No biggie. No plans on ever selling, so we'll just say it's unique 

Man, I'm super stoked for everyone getting their Vaders. I'm tempted to start my next one; a trans black matte 7 banger with the 25.5" scale. Only reservations are that I NEED a floating trem on the 7 that I play during my set, I already have a beautiful DC7X that fulfills that role, and I don't want to spend the money un-necessarily (in the paying off student loan mode right now). 

If I can resist the EBMM JP15 when it comes out, my next big purchase once all my student loans are cleared will be the Axe FX. THEN we'll see about a second Vader 

(let's be honest - I'll probably have 3 Vaders by this time next year...)


----------



## MannyMoonjava

I have a question about specing out a v7. If i choose -MA - Maple Neck/Alder Body (Standard), will i have to choose a neck option like 5H - 5-Piece Mahogany Neck w/ 2 Maple Stripes?

if not, is this correct?
-MA - Maple Neck/Alder Body (Standard)	$0.00
-CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)	$0.00
TEL - Translucent Teal	$40.00
-GNB - Clear Gloss Finish Back Of Neck (Standard)	$0.00
ZWF - Zebrawood Fingerboard	$60.00
-DMP - Mother of Pearl Diamond Inlays	$0.00
STF - Stainless Med-Jumbo Frets .048" H .103" W	$40.00
-R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)	$0.00
-K14B - Kiesel K14B Direct-Mount Passive Bridge Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-K14N - Kiesel K14N Direct-Mount Passive Neck Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-400 - Black Pickups (Standard)	$0.00
-BC - Black Hardware (Standard)	$0.00
-1068 - Carvin 1068 Light Gauge .010 - .068 (Standard)	$0.00
WL - White Logo	$0.00
SC9 - Black Ultimate Soft Guitar Case	$50.00
Custom Shop Total: $1,439.00
Options Discount: $-100.00


----------



## olejason

TheManMadeMan said:


> It came! I'll get better pictures and do a NGD later. So far this is the best guitar I've ever played. Money well spent.



Can you feel the grain on the sides and back at all or do they sand it smooth?


----------



## HighGain510

TheManMadeMan said:


> It came! I'll get better pictures and do a NGD later. So far this is the best guitar I've ever played. Money well spent.



That's a beauty man, love it!  Sometimes the "simple" finishes can be the best, understated can be awesome! 



decreebass said:


> It would appear so; but they're very light scratches - shame that the frets aren't a bit shinier to justify it haha. No biggie. No plans on ever selling, so we'll just say it's unique
> 
> Man, I'm super stoked for everyone getting their Vaders. I'm tempted to start my next one; a trans black matte 7 banger with the 25.5" scale. Only reservations are that I NEED a floating trem on the 7 that I play during my set, I already have a beautiful DC7X that fulfills that role, and I don't want to spend the money un-necessarily (in the paying off student loan mode right now).
> 
> If I can resist the EBMM JP15 when it comes out, my next big purchase once all my student loans are cleared will be the Axe FX. THEN we'll see about a second Vader
> 
> (let's be honest - I'll probably have 3 Vaders by this time next year...)



Ah bummer man, I've noticed that on some of the higher frets on a few of my own carvins in the past (seen it on a few other folks' guitars too, believe ELQ had that going on when he posted his CT7?), not sure if it's just the fret guys rushing on those higher frets or what? Obviously doesn't affect much and you usually can't feel it unless the grooves are deep, but still unfortunate to see. Outside of that I still think your build came out great!  

I dig the simplicity of my build but at the same time I kinda wish I had gone balls out on options and done a monster build with burled maple or something.  I told the wife I would limit my purchases to the last 3 customs on order (Vader 6, Bulb 6 and Strandberg 6) since we're talking about babies next year, so I'm trying to hold myself to that. Might relist some guitars for sale and if stuff starts moving maybe then I can throw another order down...


----------



## HighGain510

MannyMoonjava said:


> I have a question about specing out a v7. If i choose -MA - Maple Neck/Alder Body (Standard), will i have to choose a neck option like 5H - 5-Piece Mahogany Neck w/ 2 Maple Stripes?
> 
> if not, is this correct?
> -MA - Maple Neck/Alder Body (Standard)	$0.00
> -CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)	$0.00
> TEL - Translucent Teal	$40.00
> -GNB - Clear Gloss Finish Back Of Neck (Standard)	$0.00
> ZWF - Zebrawood Fingerboard	$60.00
> -DMP - Mother of Pearl Diamond Inlays	$0.00
> STF - Stainless Med-Jumbo Frets .048" H .103" W	$40.00
> -R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)	$0.00
> -K14B - Kiesel K14B Direct-Mount Passive Bridge Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
> -K14N - Kiesel K14N Direct-Mount Passive Neck Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
> -400 - Black Pickups (Standard)	$0.00
> -BC - Black Hardware (Standard)	$0.00
> -1068 - Carvin 1068 Light Gauge .010 - .068 (Standard)	$0.00
> WL - White Logo	$0.00
> SC9 - Black Ultimate Soft Guitar Case	$50.00
> Custom Shop Total: $1,439.00
> Options Discount: $-100.00




No, you never *have* to go with a multilaminate neck, it's just an option. If you wanted an alder body and a solid maple only neck, you can totally do that. That's exactly what I did on mine, chambered alder body and maple neck, no laminates required!


----------



## mr coffee

HighGain510 beat me to the punch - if you don't specify a laminate, you get a single piece neck of whatever you specified as your neck/body combination.

-m


----------



## curlyvice

I'm going back and forth between the V7 and V8. I've never owned a guitar with a 20 inch radius fretboard. Is 20" significantly different in terms of feel from a 17" radius? I'm comfortable playing anything with a radius from 9.5" to 17" but I'm worried the 20" radius might be a bit too flat.


----------



## TheManMadeMan

olejason said:


> Can you feel the grain on the sides and back at all or do they sand it smooth?



No, its the satin matte. It feels as smooth as satin lol


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

curlyvice said:


> I'm going back and forth between the V7 and V8. I've never owned a guitar with a 20 inch radius fretboard. Is 20" significantly different in terms of feel from a 17" radius? I'm comfortable playing anything with a radius from 9.5" to 17" but I'm worried the 20" radius might be a bit too flat.



It is not much different than 17.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yeah, I was initially worried about the radius. It's not too far off from 17 and I doubt you'll notice much of a difference.


----------



## mbardu

OK damn I broke down and ordered one. 
Rear natural clear, blue mist metallic top, zebra pickups, 5-piece walnut - maple neck. 

This better be good


----------



## ICAFXMIKE

mbardu said:


> OK damn I broke down and ordered one.
> Rear natural clear, blue mist metallic top, zebra pickups, 5-piece walnut - maple neck.
> 
> This better be good


 
Looking forward to that!

To those with pending orders, I made a call to check status of mine (Today marks the end of week 10) and sounds like they are waiting for another delivery of Hipshot hardware to finish up some builds. SO CLOSE!


----------



## HighGain510

ICAFXMIKE said:


> Looking forward to that!
> 
> To those with pending orders, I made a call to check status of mine (Today marks the end of week 10) and sounds like they are waiting for another delivery of Hipshot hardware to finish up some builds. SO CLOSE!



I was afraid mine was further back in the queue than it was, turned out I was part of the group waiting for bridges on the first go-around. They kicked those out VERY quickly, I didn't even see a pic of mine in the Facebook/Instagram daily/weekly shots! You might get it sooner than expected!


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Well I finally pulled the trigger on a V7 yesterday. Koa, Koa, Koa, Koa, a couple option 50s and then more Koa.


----------



## rapterr15

mbardu said:


> OK damn I broke down and ordered one.
> Rear natural clear, blue mist metallic top, zebra pickups, 5-piece walnut - maple neck.
> 
> This better be good



Should be awesome. Would you mind sharing how much the rear natural clear option costs? I emailed Carvin sales asking about the cost of certain options not on the builder and the guy wants me to send all the details of what I want and then he'll respond with a quote. The thing is, how I spec out the guitar kinda depends on what certain things costs as I have a budget.


----------



## decreebass

rapterr15 said:


> Should be awesome. Would you mind sharing how much the rear natural clear option costs? I emailed Carvin sales asking about the cost of certain options not on the builder and the guy wants me to send all the details of what I want and then he'll respond with a quote. The thing is, how I spec out the guitar kinda depends on what certain things costs as I have a budget.



If you check out my NGD, I post the cost of all the options I chose: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...9-nvd-kiesel-vader-v8-blue-flame-madness.html

But if you don't feel like looking, the RNC is $50.


----------



## mr coffee

I like everything about koa except for the price tag...you need to post pics when you get it!

-m


----------



## mbardu

rapterr15 said:


> Should be awesome. Would you mind sharing how much the rear natural clear option costs? I emailed Carvin sales asking about the cost of certain options not on the builder and the guy wants me to send all the details of what I want and then he'll respond with a quote. The thing is, how I spec out the guitar kinda depends on what certain things costs as I have a budget.



Rnc 'only' costs 50$, but on most models nowadays they won't do it without charging for a top wood too. So this means at least an extra 120$ (plain maple top is the most affordable top wood). 
And once you have a top wood it's hard to resist adding chambering (150$) and there you are at 300+$ in terms of extra options. Adds up fast


----------



## decreebass

mbardu said:


> Rnc 'only' costs 50$, but on most models nowadays they won't do it without charging for a top wood too. So this means at least an extra 120$ (plain maple top is the most affordable top wood).
> And once you have a top wood it's hard to resist adding chambering (150$) and there you are at 300+$ in terms of extra options. Adds up fast



Yea; I still can't believe mine cost over $2700... I could have gotten 2 middling ones for that cost. Actually, I had considered this; getting twins - a 7 & 8 exactly the same but not go all out on fancy options. I guess we know which path I took


----------



## TheManMadeMan

Mine was barely under $1600 lol


----------



## glp1996

Was in San Diego on the 3rd and went to the showroom to try out some guitars and broke down and ordered a V6 on the spot. Have been trying to stay off this thread to make the wait easier but I couldn't resist and had to see some. Specs are pretty simple:
Alder body/maple neck
Satin matte finish
Blue mist metallic ($80 upcharge)
25.5 inch scale
Zebra wood fretboard ($60)
Stainless steel jumbo frets ($40)
White pickups (free because of Easter weekend special)
MOP diamond inlays 
White logo

Came out to $1335 after tax, options discount, and another $100 off for Easter weekend


----------



## HighGain510

glp1996 said:


> Was in San Diego on the 3rd and went to the showroom to try out some guitars and broke down and ordered a V6 on the spot. Have been trying to stay off this thread to make the wait easier but I couldn't resist and had to see some. Specs are pretty simple:
> Alder body/maple neck
> Satin matte finish
> Blue mist metallic ($80 upcharge)
> 25.5 inch scale
> Zebra wood fretboard ($60)
> Stainless steel jumbo frets ($40)
> White pickups (free because of Easter weekend special)
> MOP diamond inlays
> White logo
> 
> Came out to $1335 after tax, options discount, and another $100 off for Easter weekend



Noice! Outside of the fretboard wood and lack of chambering, yours is similar to mine which turned out great!  I think you'll dig it, Alder/Maple is always a good bet so I wasn't too surprised that it ended up being awesome. 


I do have to say again, I am SO happy with how the Hipshot headless bridge/tuners turned out. VERY easy to turn (way better than the J Custom headless bridges that come on the Headless Holdsworth having owned several of those, IMHO), they hold tune well and I don't really need a tool to work them. I absolutely LOVE my Strandbergs to death, the one thing that makes things a bit complicated for me is that those tuners are super hard to turn sometimes (especially on the thicker wound strings, kinda glad I don't own a Boden 8 yet! ) so I bought a T-shaped hex wrench to help out and I need to keep that in the gig bag at all times in case I need to re-tune. If I were gigging, that wouldn't really be super practical obviously.  It's not lost on me that the Hipshot tuners are so smooth, hold tune as they should and I can turn them by hand without issue, so I wanted to call that out once again as I think Hipshot knocked it out of the park with their design! NOW MAKE A TREM VERSION PLEASE!!!


----------



## ICAFXMIKE

There she is 
Cant wait to see the Koa and walnut backside


----------



## Overtone

I'm liking the look of the white finishes the best! And black matte, of course.


----------



## TheUnvanquished

I am super stoked to see a "McLaren yellow" as a finish option on Carvin's online builder. I was torn between Ferrari red and Kiesel racing orange, but now my mind is made up. I'm going to order a V6 with this new(???) yellow finish on the top with black back and sides. Just need to save a wee bit more money.

Trying so hard to be patient, but it is so tough...


----------



## Veritech Zero

I just got off the phone with Mike. My order is in :-D (Took me long enough).

Specs of note:
Satin Deep green cali burst
Thinner neck
Stainless frets
zebra pickups
birdseye maple fretboard
Gold drop shadow logo

8 weeks can't hurry up and get here soon enough


----------



## ferret

Veritech Zero said:


> I just got off the phone with Mike. My order is in :-D (Took me long enough).
> 
> Specs of note:
> Satin Deep green cali burst
> Thinner neck
> Stainless frets
> zebra pickups
> birdseye maple fretboard
> Gold drop shadow logo
> 
> 8 weeks can't hurry up and get here soon enough



6, 7 or 8 though?


----------



## Veritech Zero

ferret said:


> 6, 7 or 8 though?



Ah good point haha, 7


----------



## glp1996

Veritech Zero said:


> I just got off the phone with Mike. My order is in :-D (Took me long enough).
> 
> Specs of note:
> Satin Deep green cali burst
> Thinner neck
> Stainless frets
> zebra pickups
> birdseye maple fretboard
> Gold drop shadow logo
> 
> 8 weeks can't hurry up and get here soon enough



What is the thinner neck like compared to the standard?


----------



## Veritech Zero

I honestly couldn't tell you as I've always gotten it, and I haven't played one without. On my Holdsworth, the thinner neck feels very very similar to my Charvel Pro Mod. So not super thin, but thin enough. And with very comfortable rounded shoulders. I've never gotten a 7 from them with or without the thinner neck, but I do have a Schecter KM-7 and I am hoping it is similar to that, since it also has the very comfy rounded shoulders.


----------



## glp1996

Veritech Zero said:


> I honestly couldn't tell you as I've always gotten it, and I haven't played one without. On my Holdsworth, the thinner neck feels very very similar to my Charvel Pro Mod. So not super thin, but thin enough. And with very comfortable rounded shoulders. I've never gotten a 7 from them with or without the thinner neck, but I do have a Schecter KM-7 and I am hoping it is similar to that, since it also has the very comfy rounded shoulders.



Interesting. Report back when you get it because I have a KM-7 too and I'm curious if it'll be similar.


----------



## mr coffee

I ordered the thinner neck on my DC800 as well. I'm really curious how it's going to feel.

-m


----------



## HaloHat

mr coffee said:


> HighGain510 beat me to the punch - if you don't specify a laminate, you get a single piece neck of whatever you specified as your neck/body combination.
> 
> -m



Not a bad thing either as Kiesel uses double carbon fiber rods on all their 27" scale necks. If someone is picking their build options and trying to keep costs down a one piece neck with the double carbon fiber rods is going to be pretty damn stable. 5 pc with the double rods that much more so.


----------



## Veritech Zero

Well, and that being said. The truss rod adjustment is exposed without a headstock, and would take less time to adjust than it would to tune if you have the allen wrench handy  I have the thinner neck and a single piece neck on my Holdsworth, and I actually haven't had to use the exposed adjustment once other than my very first set up, and I don't believe the Holdsworths have any sort of reinforcement.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Since I found out you can't "pick/suggest" wood types on non-figured tops (mahogany, ash, etc) I have no idea what kinda top or even color to get on my vader order. I want to finally place it monday but I'm going back and forth between different options. My plan was a very streaky piece of mahogany in sapphire blue but that is not possible now unless I get lucky.. But a flamed top basically costs the same thing (maho top + maho body basically is the price of alder + flamed maple).. I'm just not a huge fan of flamed maple, but my favorite V7 out there so far is a flame aquaburst.

I'm also considering a much cheaper one, with a birch top ($100 apparently) and nightburst. Kinda like Scott Jones' HH2.

Decisions!


----------



## glp1996

SnowfaLL said:


> Since I found out you can't "pick/suggest" wood types on non-figured tops (mahogany, ash, etc) I have no idea what kinda top or even color to get on my vader order. I want to finally place it monday but I'm going back and forth between different options. My plan was a very streaky piece of mahogany in sapphire blue but that is not possible now unless I get lucky.. But a flamed top basically costs the same thing (maho top + maho body basically is the price of alder + flamed maple).. I'm just not a huge fan of flamed maple, but my favorite V7 out there so far is a flame aquaburst.
> 
> I'm also considering a much cheaper one, with a birch top ($100 apparently) and nightburst. Kinda like Scott Jones' HH2.
> 
> Decisions!


You can always pick a plain maple top (if you are doing clambering) or no top at all and get a nice solid or metallic color. Cuts down quite a bit on cost. Of course their tops are incredible so if you have the money you might as well. If you don't like flamed maple you could do quilt or something with a more figured top and get a clear gloss finish.


----------



## Inceptic

I am in complete awe...


----------



## curlyvice

^That top is ridiculous. I'm not a huge fan of fancy fretboards but it really works well with that one.


----------



## olejason

Any guess on what that cost? I'm guessing $4k+?


----------



## jerm

Is that top just DTS with a satin finish and light blackburst?


----------



## ferret

olejason said:


> Any guess on what that cost? I'm guessing $4k+?



I'd say around $4k is a fair guess. Starting base price, $1200. Plus $2000 for Kiesel Edition. Probably $800 for upgrade from flamed maple to burl. I think most of the other upgrades are in the KE upcharge.


----------



## HighGain510

Inceptic said:


> I am in complete awe...





ferret said:


> I'd say around $4k is a fair guess. Starting base price, $1200. Plus $2000 for Kiesel Edition. Probably $800 for upgrade from flamed maple to burl. I think most of the other upgrades are in the KE upcharge.



Man I absolutely LOVE that thing... but $4K? That's where they lose me.  Carvin/Kiesel have been putting out some seriously good-looking stains these days (and the woods have been great on many as well) but that price is just nuts for what you're buying, just IMHO/YMMV/my.


----------



## littleredguitars2

yeah thats definitely the best looking vader i've seen yet


----------



## ferret

HighGain510 said:


> Man I absolutely LOVE that thing... but $4K? That's where they lose me.  Carvin/Kiesel have been putting out some seriously good-looking stains these days (and the woods have been great on many as well) but that price is just nuts for what you're buying, just IMHO/YMMV/my.



I don't disagree really, I wouldn't buy one, but remember there's a burl back on there too, and Jeff does most of the work himself. To me, $2000 isn't worth it, but if it's someone else's cup of tea and they like the idea of some direct personal attention ... more power to them.

Take out the KE aspect, and I bet you can get that for $2500.


----------



## HighGain510

ferret said:


> I don't disagree really, I wouldn't buy one, but remember there's a burl back on there too, and Jeff does most of the work himself. To me, $2000 isn't worth it, but if it's someone else's cup of tea and they like the idea of some direct personal attention ... more power to them.
> 
> Take out the KE aspect, and I bet you can get that for $2500.



Yeah my biggest thing is that the wood charges aren't exactly equal to what they should be honestly.  If you buy a monster block of burl that's enough for four to 6 burl tops, it's not even costing you $600, so charging that for the top wood upgrades (per side) when the thickness isn't huge even before the carving occurs is a bit rough.  I get that Jeff's time is valuable and if he's doing some or all of the work himself he feels they should be worth considerably more and obviously there is a market for folks who agree, I just think some of the option prices are a bit high for what you're getting. Almost makes me want to look into the Option 50 route of "supply your own lumber" if they consider that again, but I would hope the discount for not using their wood might be a factor as well.  Believe me, not ragging on the Kiesel Editions by any means as some of them have been baller as hell (that pink w/ blackburst DC700 might have come home to me if that wasn't someone's order already ) and the woods used have been pretty nice for most of them!


----------



## mbardu

HighGain510 said:


> Yeah my biggest thing is that the wood charges aren't exactly equal to what they should be honestly.  If you buy a monster block of burl that's enough for four to 6 burl tops, it's not even costing you $600, so charging that for the top wood upgrades (per side) when the thickness isn't huge even before the carving occurs is a bit rough.  I get that Jeff's time is valuable and if he's doing some or all of the work himself he feels they should be worth considerably more and obviously there is a market for folks who agree, I just think some of the option prices are a bit high for what you're getting. Almost makes me want to look into the Option 50 route of "supply your own lumber" if they consider that again, but I would hope the discount for not using their wood might be a factor as well.  Believe me, not ragging on the Kiesel Editions by any means as some of them have been baller as hell (that pink w/ blackburst DC700 might have come home to me if that wasn't someone's order already ) and the woods used have been pretty nice for most of them!



I don't know man. 
As a consumer (not a business) I've tried recently to source some nice burl maple from a couple of providers, and getting a nice piece is close to impossible - unless you are willing to pay North of 300$ for one top. 
And that's the price to me, obviously carvin is a business so they would want to make a markup (they're not charity  ). 

Even quilt is getting super expensive. 

Maybe a few of years ago, your hypothetical 600$ blocks would have been possible (but even then probably without the proper drying and treatment), but today I have trouble imagining that. 

Anyway that's not to say it's affordable, I wouldn't be able to pay 4-5k$ for a kiesel myself. 

But it's not out of line compared to the competition. I'd venture a ps with front and back burl would cost a 'little' more


----------



## SnowfaLL

If the price for 1 piece quilted maple tops (for CT7) wasnt above $1000 now with Carvin, I'd order one for sure. Love my 1 piece QMT on the ST300T. Oh well, I might also just look for a year to find a good piece and supply it myself, even if I pay $300, it'd be worth it.

I'm going to go with Ash top with Aquaburst on my vader 7 I think anyways. No quilt/flame/burl on this one, as I want to keep it near $2k (Edit: came to $2016 shipped to Canada - Just around my planned budget)


----------



## TheManMadeMan

What gauge does Carvin use for the Vader 7 strings? I chose the elixir 9s but I don't know what gauge the low A is.


----------



## cubix

I guess I will never accept the tops not being bent over the arm bevel on the Vaders... Only reasonable option would be solid color top.


----------



## mbardu

cubix said:


> I guess I will never accept the tops not being bent over the arm bevel on the Vaders... Only reasonable option would be solid color top.



Well that or a thick darker burst.. 

But I wouldn't hide so much figured wood with that so I went plain maple top / blue mist metallic exactly for that reason.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I tried to go with the same top wood + body wood (ash) so the arm bevel isnt as obvious, and a burst too. We'll see how it turns out. I agree for quilted/figured tops though, I'll never get over it without a thick burst of something.

If I wasnt so hellbent on going chambered (if you are paying for a top, mise well try it out dyed), I woulda got solid white or blue mist also.


----------



## Hollowway

That top looks amazing. Reminds me of this:


----------



## HighGain510

mbardu said:


> I don't know man.
> As a consumer (not a business) I've tried recently to source some nice burl maple from a couple of providers, and getting a nice piece is close to impossible - unless you are willing to pay North of 300$ for one top.
> And that's the price to me, obviously carvin is a business so they would want to make a markup (they're not charity  ).
> 
> Even quilt is getting super expensive.
> 
> Maybe a few of years ago, your hypothetical 600$ blocks would have been possible (but even then probably without the proper drying and treatment), but today I have trouble imagining that.
> 
> Anyway that's not to say it's affordable, I wouldn't be able to pay 4-5k$ for a kiesel myself.
> 
> But it's not out of line compared to the competition. I'd venture a ps with front and back burl would cost a 'little' more



I guess, I have a friend who sources all his own woods for his builds and asked him about it. $600 would buy a block of nice burl for about 4 tops/backs given the thickeness of the Carvin/Kiesel tops on those. I get that they're not running a charity, nor am I asking them to, so I'm just saying I *personally* feel charging $600 for a piece of burl maple is excessive. Highly-figured wood is not always easy to come by especially in bulk, but again for how much they need for each build I just think there's a bit too much profit in there to make it worth it for me.

PRS Private Stocks aren't even the same type of deal anyway (team of PS builders for those vs Kiesel and the standard production team at Carvin, to my knowledge) and considering either you or your dealer get to HAND-SELECT your woods, yes, I would imagine the burl would cost a little more coming from PRS Private Stock since they're not giving you the whole "trust me!" line as your only option.  I've asked about being able to pick my top, the only option I've ever been given was I could PAY MORE to give them a sample of the type of top I would like to see and pray for the best.  Not exactly an apples to apples scenario there! 


On a side note, I'm still part of the group that feels they need to fix the "Drop top" instead of shaving it clean off. I can't imagine that a vacuum bag scenario like other builders use for bent/drop tops is impossible, but Kiesel keeps saying it is not possible due to the steep angle/forearm contour...  I need to look at my Suhr when I get home and do a head-on shot of that to the Vader to see how exaggerated the angle really is in person because personally I just don't think that's true.  I totally would have gone for a figured top and a stain upcharge on my Vader order if they did a true drop-top, but being forced to get a burst finish to try to compensate (which doesn't work as well on brighter colors anyways ) for the lack of a true bent top doesn't seem like the right answer to me.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

HighGain510 said:


> On a side note, I'm still part of the group that feels they need to fix the "Drop top" instead of shaving it clean off. I can't imagine that a vacuum bag scenario like other builders use for bent/drop tops is impossible, but Kiesel keeps saying it is not possible due to the steep angle/forearm contour...  I need to look at my Suhr when I get home and do a head-on shot of that to the Vader to see how exaggerated the angle really is in person because personally I just don't think that's true.  I totally would have gone for a figured top and a stain upcharge on my Vader order if they did a true drop-top, but being forced to get a burst finish to try to compensate (which doesn't work as well on brighter colors anyways ) for the lack of a true bent top doesn't seem like the right answer to me.



J-customs have drop tops bent back quite far on the forearm contour. They are mostly maple though so I'm not sure how well walnut or other hard woods would bend.


----------



## MBMoreno

Lorcan Ward said:


> J-customs have drop tops bent back quite far on the forearm contour. They are mostly maple though so I'm not sure how well walnut or other hard woods would bend.



It is a pain and a time consuming process. Especially walnuts and the like - they break and tear easily.
And these are still "mass produced" guitars


----------



## decreebass

I've never built a guitar or worked with wood like this, but I don't really feel like the forearm contour is any more drastic than any of my other Carvins. But I'm not the expert builder(s) either. And honestly, the 'cut' kinda grows on you. It's definitely unique - that's for sure


----------



## mr coffee

It doesn't bother me much, but my first good guitar was a mahogany strat style body with a bubinga top that showed the line at the elbow cut, so I've had ages to let that grow on me.

-m


----------



## olejason

I think a solid layer between the body and top wood makes the forearm cut look a little nicer. That way you have a solid border and not a jarring contrast of wood grain. I know they'll do a layer but not sure how expensive it is.


----------



## decreebass

olejason said:


> I think a solid layer between the body and top wood makes the forearm cut look a little nicer. That way you have a solid border and not a jarring contrast of wood grain. I know they'll do a layer but not sure how expensive it is.



I got that on mine:

















And it's hard to tell exactly how much the black phenolic layer cost - but this was my price list:



> - 8-String Vader $1199
> *- Swamp Ash Body $60
> - 3-piece laminate body (facilitating that black phenolic layer) $150
> - Chambered Body $150*
> - Antique Ash Treatment $200
> - Rear natural clear coat $50
> - Body Binding Effect on bevel $120
> - Deep Aqua burst on flame $250
> - 5-piece walnut neck with maple stripes $150
> - Tung oil back of neck $60
> - Birds Eye maple fretboard $30
> - Light-black Kiesel treated board $100
> - Thin neck profile $60
> - Abalone Diamond inlyas $50
> - Stainless Steel jumbo frets $40
> - Pickup color (zebra) cream & black $5
> - 5-way Selector switch (comes standard; positions are as follows: 1+2, 1, 1+2 & 3+4, 4, 3+4 *I think, not too sure about positions 2 &4*)
> - Metal knobs with abalone inlays $10
> - Logo; silver with black drop shadow $20
> - Ultimate soft case for headless guitar $50
> - Options discount: $200
> - Shipping to Hawaii $87


----------



## ferret

3PB is always $150. This covers your black phenolic layer as well as the alder layer in my SCB6...

It also covers doing a back wood. So doing flamed top and back is still 3PB @ $150, but there's additional cost for the back wood. I got quoted $400 for a quilt back on a CT7. Not going to do it but wanted to explore a bunch of options.

Secondary note: you cannot order 5-piece body without doing KE.


----------



## bloc

That stupid forearm contour just ruins everything, especially with a coloured top


----------



## The Hiryuu

Meh. I'd rather a guitar be comfortable and look less nice than be pretty and awkward to play. It's not a damn museum piece.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Hiryuu said:


> Meh. I'd rather a guitar be comfortable and look less nice than be pretty and awkward to play. It's not a damn museum piece.



To be fair, both are possible. Plenty of builders can do tops over arm contours. Carvin just hasn't figured it out quite yet.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

MaxOfMetal said:


> To be fair, both are possible. Plenty of builders can do tops over arm contours. Carvin just hasn't figured it out quite yet.



That is very true, I've installed wood floors and stairs for over 15 years now and when doing stair skirts and risers we can bend a 3/16" to 1/4" solid piece to 90 degrees no problem in a 6"-9" radius, it all depends on how you relieve the stress without it breaking. It's been done on plenty of guitar tops I've seen with a hard contour, but Carvin/Kiesel just stick to what they know I guess.
I don't mind it on my V7 but some tops would look much better with the whole top done, even if it would only be 1/16" thick at the end of the contour.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

So! I'm on vacation and toyed with the idea of taking my vader. I didn't out of fear, but figured I'd ask opinions on taking it. Do airlines allow it? Like, as carry on luggage or something. As far as I've read, overhead bins are first come first serve and guitars are allowed. I'm just wondering if people have had experiences flying with them, or strandbergs of comparable size for future reference.


----------



## decreebass

Chokey Chicken said:


> So! I'm on vacation and toyed with the idea of taking my vader. I didn't out of fear, but figured I'd ask opinions on taking it. Do airlines allow it? Like, as carry on luggage or something. As far as I've read, overhead bins are first come first serve and guitars are allowed. I'm just wondering if people have had experiences flying with them, or strandbergs of comparable size for future reference.



I've never had ANY issue bringing a guitar on a plane.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Chokey Chicken said:


> So! I'm on vacation and toyed with the idea of taking my vader. I didn't out of fear, but figured I'd ask opinions on taking it. Do airlines allow it? Like, as carry on luggage or something. As far as I've read, overhead bins are first come first serve and guitars are allowed. I'm just wondering if people have had experiences flying with them, or strandbergs of comparable size for future reference.



Depends on the airline. It should meet the volume requirements. 

In the past I've had Delta, Continental, and Southwest hold it in the "closet" by the cockpit or flight attendant area for no extra fees or fuss, just ask. Using cheaper airlines like Jet Blue and Frontier was a different story, both wanted to charge me, and I had to fight just to let me have it in overhead.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I fly united and so long as it's not one of their express planes, there's plenty of overhead space. On the small planes, they gate check stuff and give it back after you get off. I just really didn't want to risk it so I didn't bother. Perhaps next time then. 

I might just get a cheap beater specifically for travel since I'd probably murder someone if something happened to my vader. Trying to snag one of my wife's mother's acoustics for the week. I'm going nuts with so little to do.


----------



## haymez

One more week until my Vaders are supposed to arrive. I'm climbing the walls FFS.


----------



## crystallake

haymez said:


> One more week until *my Vaders* are supposed to arrive. I'm climbing the walls FFS.


----------



## rapterr15

I flew from Japan to Hong Kong with the Strandberg OS I bought while there, and had no issues on the flight. I imagine the Carvin gig bag for the Vader and HH2 is similar in size to that of the Strandberg, so there shouldn't be much to worry about.


----------



## JDTLH9

spudmunkey said:


> [/IMG]



Does this Vader have an NGD thread? I have looked but cannot see one here or at Carvin's boards :/


----------



## reentune

I'm still waiting for some of these to come up for sale on the used market (because I just love my HH2x so much).
7-string with no fretboard inlays and jumbo stainless frets, please!


----------



## Nlelith

reentune said:


> I'm still waiting for some of these to come up for sale on the used market


Considering how everybody is so happy with their Vaders, I don't think you'll see them on used market any time soon.


----------



## reentune

Nlelith said:


> Considering how everybody is so happy with their Vaders, I don't think you'll see them on used market any time soon.



It sure does seem that way.


----------



## HighGain510

rapterr15 said:


> I flew from Japan to Hong Kong with the Strandberg OS I bought while there, and had no issues on the flight. I imagine the Carvin gig bag for the Vader and HH2 is similar in size to that of the Strandberg, so there shouldn't be much to worry about.



The Carvin bag (at least for my Vader 6) is WAY smaller than either of my Strandberg bags (Washburn/M2M style bag or the OS style bag). I'll take a comparison shot for you guys tonight when I get home if I remember and post it up since I have all three at the house. 



reentune said:


> I'm still waiting for some of these to come up for sale on the used market (because I just love my HH2x so much).
> 7-string with no fretboard inlays and jumbo stainless frets, please!



If you love the HH2x, you're going to REALLY love the Vader, IMHO. I loved the tone and playability of the HH1/2 models I've owned and the only thing I always ended up not jiving with was the smaller body size as it just felt TOO tiny to me (I ended up hunching over the guitar any time I was sitting down to keep it from sliding off my lap, which was not great for me ergonomically to say the least! ). This model completely fixed that for me!  They're not THAT expensive new if you forgo the fancy top options, I ordered a plain maple top and chambered mine and think it is worth every penny. I was actually SLIGHTLY tempted to throw it up so I could order another Vader 6 with the McLaren yellow and the RawTone (I think that's what they're calling it?) black back as had I known that was going to be an option, I would have ordered that the first time!  

Really the only thing keeping me from listing mine (to buy another one, just to be clear! ) is that it really DOES sound and play amazing and while Carvin's consistency in quality seems to be back up to what it should be, every guitar built will be different so when you find one that you REALLY like, I've found I regret letting it go to order something else because it had a different option I wanted.  I love my DC800, maybe I'll just suck it up and order a Vader 8 with those options instead...  Trying to be good lately, I had funds set aside for my Bulb sig and Strandberg Boden 6 and just socked away a ton of funds for next year's baby fund, but maybe I'll toss some other stuff out there to grab the Vader 8 as I'm finding I truly dig my Vader 6 the more I play it!


----------



## reentune

HighGain510 said:


> The Carvin bag (at least for my Vader 6) is WAY smaller than either of my Strandberg bags (Washburn/M2M style bag or the OS style bag). I'll take a comparison shot for you guys tonight when I get home if I remember and post it up since I have all three at the house.
> 
> 
> 
> If you love the HH2x, you're going to REALLY love the Vader, IMHO. I loved the tone and playability of the HH1/2 models I've owned and the only thing I always ended up not jiving with was the smaller body size as it just felt TOO tiny to me (I ended up hunching over the guitar any time I was sitting down to keep it from sliding off my lap, which was not great for me ergonomically to say the least! ). This model completely fixed that for me!  They're not THAT expensive new if you forgo the fancy top options, I ordered a plain maple top and chambered mine and think it is worth every penny. I was actually SLIGHTLY tempted to throw it up so I could order another Vader 6 with the McLaren yellow and the RawTone (I think that's what they're calling it?) black back as had I known that was going to be an option, I would have ordered that the first time!
> 
> Really the only thing keeping me from listing mine (to buy another one, just to be clear! ) is that it really DOES sound and play amazing and while Carvin's consistency in quality seems to be back up to what it should be, every guitar built will be different so when you find one that you REALLY like, I've found I regret letting it go to order something else because it had a different option I wanted.  I love my DC800, maybe I'll just suck it up and order a Vader 8 with those options instead...  Trying to be good lately, I had funds set aside for my Bulb sig and Strandberg Boden 6 and just socked away a ton of funds for next year's baby fund, but maybe I'll toss some other stuff out there to grab the Vader 8 as I'm finding I truly dig my Vader 6 the more I play it!



Totally not expensive new. Cheaper than my plain Jane HH (though likely easier to build).

Also, whether sitting or standing, I always wear a strap.
Neverand I mean NEVERdo I put it on my lap.
I need that classical-guitar position.
So the small body for me is great.
Wish they'd add a T4M trem option to the Vader.


----------



## Krucifixtion

Sorry if this has been asked anywhere before, but is there any possibility of them doing Multi-scale Vader's in the future? 

My friends Vader 7 just shipped and I can't wait to check it out when he get's it!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Krucifixtion said:


> Sorry if this has been asked anywhere before, but is there any possibility of them doing Multi-scale Vader's in the future?
> 
> My friends Vader 7 just shipped and I can't wait to check it out when he get's it!



Very doubtful. Its been addressed a few times on FB and in the Q & A video. In short he wants to see if its a fad that will pass or a worthwhile investment. There is a lot of work involved. Carvin's been around a long time so he's seen lots of trends come and go.

Another problem is scale lengths. Everyone wants different fans. Lots of customers are already requesting for a 26.5 an 28" scale option on the current guitars.


----------



## glp1996

Anybody who has gotten their Vader care to share how long the build time was? I saw someone said it took 12 weeks to get theirs and it's been almost 6 weeks since I ordered mine and I'm dying for it to be finished already


----------



## HighGain510

glp1996 said:


> Anybody who has gotten their Vader care to share how long the build time was? I saw someone said it took 12 weeks to get theirs and it's been almost 6 weeks since I ordered mine and I'm dying for it to be finished already



I ordered on 2/6 and it was done on 4/9. It takes time to build a guitar right, you don't want to cut it and immediately start gluing things up like the start-up "luthiers" who have no clue what they're doing. There was an excellent video posted recently by Musicians Friend I think where they interviewed some of the higher-ups at PRS and they go through the process of why they do what they do and why it takes a bit of time for ordered guitars to be completed. It's up on YT, search for it and it will explain why an 8-12 week build time is still on the extremely fast side of things.  I totally understand the antsy feeling though, I was on pins and needles waiting for mine too, just throwing that out there!  I'd rather wait 12 weeks and get a killer guitar than to have them rush it only to have the neck warp on you in a year.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

It's worth saying that a lot of the vaders were completed well before they shipped. Mine took an extra 1 or 2 weeks because they were waiting for the bridges. If they've got that whole thing sorted, then the build times might be a little faster.


----------



## pott

How is the wood selection on these? Pretty tops are one thing, do they sound good acoustically? Resonate as well as can be expected as a guitar at that cost?


----------



## HighGain510

pott said:


> How is the wood selection on these? Pretty tops are one thing, do they sound good acoustically? Resonate as well as can be expected as a guitar at that cost?



If you are solely concerned with tone, buy a stripped-down version with the tone woods that you want. That's what I did, plain alder and maple, and it sounds great. Resonance is great, but I also ordered mine with the chambered body option so that could be a factor as well. I wanted to make sure mine sounded great and knew what wood combo would work well, so I'm not surprised that the resulting guitar turned out awesome.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Mine was the standard alder with maple neck and it's one of the nicest sounding (acoustically as well as plugged in) guitars I've had the pleasure of playing. Mine lacks clambering as well, so even if it is a factor it's not a necessity for getting good sounds/resonance/whatever.

Edit: leaving the auto correct because it's funny, but I meant my guitar lacks chambering.


----------



## ferret

Jeff's monday update video claimed they have lowered the build times down to around 4-6 weeks now. I suspect this results from building up a better stock of newer hardware (Kiesel pickups and Hipshot bridges) and neck blanks. This announcement was coupled with "If you order a non-standard 5pc neck combination, it will add 4-5 weeks to the build time." which lends credence to idea of pre-prepared neck blank stock.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Mother of god, that's lightning quick.


----------



## JSanta

Well Friday is 6 weeks wait so far for me. Wouldn't it be grand if my Vader was done that quickly?


----------



## glp1996

JSanta said:


> Well Friday is 6 weeks wait so far for me. Wouldn't it be grand if my Vader was done that quickly?



Friday is 6 weeks for me too. I don't know about yours but mine has mostly standard features so I have a good feeling it will be done within the next week or so if they really have cut build times down to 4-6 weeks.


----------



## SnowfaLL

2 week end for me tomorrow.. So far to go!


----------



## Veritech Zero

I've already begun scouring Carvin's facebook for a picture of my Vader even though it has weeks to go haha. Definitely not helping my patience.


----------



## glp1996

Veritech Zero said:


> I've already begun scouring Carvin's facebook for a picture of my Vader even though it has weeks to go haha. Definitely not helping my patience.



Dude I feel you. I've had notifications turned on for their Facebook page since I ordered mine and everytime I get one I look through the guitars and then have to remind myself its only been a couple weeks haha


----------



## HighGain510

Veritech Zero said:


> I've already begun scouring Carvin's facebook for a picture of my Vader even though it has weeks to go haha. Definitely not helping my patience.



Oddly enough, you would think considering mine was BRIGHT GREEN they would have wanted to post it to break up the monotony of the posts where they have like 4-5 natural finished woods like mahogany, walnut and koa, but mine didn't ever pop up on their FB feed! Not complaining as it basically shipped without me realizing it until I got the fedex notification saying Carvin had shipped a package to me so I was pleasantly surprised it was already on it's way to me!  Seems like they just have so many guitars coming down the pike that not all of them make it to the daily update, although that would be badass if they did!


----------



## JSanta

glp1996 said:


> Friday is 6 weeks for me too. I don't know about yours but mine has mostly standard features so I have a good feeling it will be done within the next week or so if they really have cut build times down to 4-6 weeks.


 
Mine is fairly standard as well. So having it done in a week or so would be great. Not holding my breath though. Quoted 8 weeks and I can live with that.


----------



## mbardu

7-piece neck showing, purple heart top Vader...


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I desperately want purple heart incorporated in a guitar of mine. That vader really speaks to me, and I may have to bite whoever that belongs to's style if I ever decide to spring the cash for a vader of my own. My roommate has one that I play pretty regularly so I'm not too motivated to buy my own. Some day maybe.


----------



## ferret

Señor Voorhees;4370661 said:


> I desperately want purple heart incorporated in a guitar of mine. That vader really speaks to me, and I may have to bite whoever that belongs to's style if I ever decide to spring the cash for a vader of my own. My roommate has one that I play pretty regularly so I'm not too motivated to buy my own. Some day maybe.



According to instagram, Jeff did this one for ebay/GIS. It should be popping up as for sale on Facebook real soon, maybe you can grab it


----------



## olejason

Anyone know what finish this is? It looks like the "blacked out" antique ash but on the entire body. Pretty much exactly what I wanted in a Vader.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

ferret said:


> According to instagram, Jeff did this one for ebay/GIS. It should be popping up as for sale on Facebook real soon, maybe you can grab it



As tempting as it is, I'll probably be forced to pass. I'm completely out of disposable income for the time being. The laminated neck and top (ie: the reason I'd buy it) probably push it way too far out of the "even remotely feasible" zone for me. 

Still, I hope whoever gets it loves it as much as I know I would. The one I've been playing is a hoot, and they're certainly worth the price paid.

Edit $2344. We'll over my poor man's budget even if I weren't low on funds. Haha!


----------



## mr coffee

That's the "Raw Tone" finish, I believe. Super cool, kind of reminds me of the Gibson Voodoo series.

-m


----------



## kgerbick7321

crystallake said:


> Here's a nice V7 that was posted on FB today.


 
This ones mine! Unfortunately im overseas right now and wont be home for a bit. It kills me that I wont be able to play this beauty for a while. I spec'd this thing out pretty hard, here what I ordered for anyone interested:

Vader V7 27"
Swamp ash wings with dark antique ash treatment
5 piece walnut neck with mahogany fillets
Flame maple board dyed double black
No inlays
Flame maple top with satin black cherry cali burst
Jumbo stainless frets
Dunlop strap locks
Drop shadow black Logo
Kiesel K14 pickups
Rear neck and body clear
Tung oil neck
Chambered body


----------



## haymez

Epic NVD incoming today...


----------



## haymez

Sorry for the craptastic lighting - I'll shoot better photos soon. Pretty epic NVD. I got a 6 & 7 and I am really pleased with *everything* about these guitars.


----------



## glp1996

Wow those Vaders are incredible  How long was the build time?


----------



## haymez

glp1996 said:


> Wow those Vaders are incredible  How long was the build time?



Mine took 8 weeks from order to delivery. Totally worth it. Totally.


----------



## glp1996

haymez said:


> Mine took 8 weeks from order to delivery. Totally worth it. Totally.



Looks like I got two more weeks then. It'll be so worth it once it finally comes.


----------



## elkinz

haymez said:


> Sorry for the craptastic lighting - I'll shoot better photos soon. Pretty epic NVD. I got a 6 & 7 and I am really pleased with *everything* about these guitars.


 

CHRIST those are beautiful! Every time I see one of the vaders I feel like I need one more and more hahaha.


----------



## curlyvice

That sea-foam green V7 with the zebra wood fretboard..........
That's really similar to what I was thinking of ordering, although with zebra pickups and no inlays.

The new McLaren Yellow finish from Carvin is really hot though and I might have to go for that.


----------



## glp1996

curlyvice said:


> That sea-foam green V7 with the zebra wood fretboard..........
> That's really similar to what I was thinking of ordering, although with zebra pickups and no inlays.
> 
> The new McLaren Yellow finish from Carvin is really hot though and I might have to go for that.



Had I known about the new McLaren Yellow when I ordered mine I would have chose that and a different fingerboard than Zebrawood. Would love to see a Vader in MY with an ebony board.


----------



## JDTLH9

olejason said:


> Anyone know what finish this is? It looks like the "blacked out" antique ash but on the entire body. Pretty much exactly what I wanted in a Vader.




https://youtu.be/YEEI4gulI3A

A new YouTube video posted of a V6 with an open grain satin finish looks close


----------



## Arkeion

I'm curious how these feel playing in a classical position. Anybody play with the Vader resting between your legs?


----------



## Inceptic

haymez said:


>



Are the bodies of the Vader 6 and 7 the same size? For some reason the 7's look more "proportional" to me than the 6's.


----------



## haymez

Arkeion said:


> I'm curious how these feel playing in a classical position. Anybody play with the Vader resting between your legs?



It is very comfortable in classical position.


----------



## JDTLH9

Looks like you got the 27" inch scale on the 6 and 25.5" on the 7. Most people would go the other way round. I am guessing you had some especially low tunings in mind for the 6?


----------



## olejason

JDTLH9 said:


> https://youtu.be/YEEI4gulI3A
> 
> A new YouTube video posted of a V6 with an open grain satin finish looks close



I think you're right. The ash doesn't look as good on the one in the video but maybe the pro lighting makes the photo pop. I'm really digging that finish though.


----------



## haymez

JDTLH9 said:


> Looks like you got the 27" inch scale on the 6 and 25.5" on the 7. Most people would go the other way round. I am guessing you had some especially low tunings in mind for the 6?



Nope, both are 25.5. The 6 is in standard and the 7 is 1/2 step down with the low string at Ab. I will experiment with other tunings as I get more comfortable with the extra string


----------



## itsallinmyh3ad

I'm *this* close to ordering one.

MT - Plain Maple Top	$120.00
-MA - Maple Neck/Alder Body (Standard)	$0.00
-CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)	$0.00
GB - Grabber Blue	$0.00
CMB - Chambered Body (Must Order Optional Top Wood)	$150.00
255 - 25.5 Inch Scale Length (No Charge)	$0.00
PSN - Painted Satin Finish Back Of Neck (Matches Body Color)	$120.00
BMF - Birdseye Maple Fingerboard (Tung-Oiled)	$30.00
NIN - No Top Inlays - Side Dots Only	$0.00
STJF - Stainless Jumbo Frets .055" H .110" W	$40.00
-R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)	$0.00
-K12B - Kiesel K12B Direct-Mount Passive Bridge Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-K12N - Kiesel K12N Direct-Mount Passive Neck Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-400 - Black Pickups (Standard)	$0.00
-BC - Black Hardware (Standard)	$0.00
-1046E - Elixir Light Gauge .010 - .046 (Standard)	$0.00
BL - Black Logo	$0.00
WK - Rosewood Knobs	$10.00
SL - Dunlop Straplocks	$10.00
SC9 - Black Ultimate Soft Guitar Case	$50.00
Custom Shop Total: $1,729.00


----------



## JDTLH9

haymez said:


> Nope, both are 25.5. The 6 is in standard and the 7 is 1/2 step down with the low string at Ab. I will experiment with other tunings as I get more comfortable with the extra string



Ah okay. Thanks for the reply  They both look great btw, congrats!


----------



## JSanta

Got the call today. I will have the guitar on Friday!!!!


----------



## glp1996

JSanta said:


> Got the call today. I will have the guitar on Friday!!!!



Congrats man! I happen to be going down to San Diego this weekend anyways so I emailed Flock asking if there was any chance my guitar would be ready for me to pick it up, fingers crossed!


----------



## RPG_Guitars

Just wanted some input from people who recently got their Vaders. I placed my order on 4/6/15. The build time was 6 - 8 weeks when I placed my order. They did say they would send an E-Mail with the estimated completion date. With in a few days I'll be at the 7 week mark and I have yet to get the target E-Mail. SO, my questions is this, at what point in the build process did you guys get estimated completion E-Mail? Was it right at the end of the weeks target, in the middle? I guess I'm getting a little anxious and I don't want to hassle them. Any incite would be much appreciated!


----------



## ferret

Never got an email for my Vader order, other than my invoice right after order. That said, I email Chris Hong all the time.  Call them up, they don't mind.


----------



## glp1996

All they told me when I first ordered it (4/6) is that the build time was estimated 8 weeks. I emailed Flock today and he said my completion date is scheduled for 6/1. Don't be afraid to contact them, they are all very nice and after all it is your money you're choosing to spend on them.


----------



## glp1996

Just got the call! I'm picking her up tomorrow!


----------



## JSanta

The guitar has arrived. First impressions so far are quite good. I will post a proper NGD once I have had time to really evaluate it.


----------



## mphsc

^ Same here, arrived today. I'm digging it.


----------



## CW7

RPG_Guitars said:


> Just wanted some input from people who recently got their Vaders. I placed my order on 4/6/15. The build time was 6 - 8 weeks when I placed my order. They did say they would send an E-Mail with the estimated completion date. With in a few days I'll be at the 7 week mark and I have yet to get the target E-Mail. SO, my questions is this, at what point in the build process did you guys get estimated completion E-Mail? Was it right at the end of the weeks target, in the middle? I guess I'm getting a little anxious and I don't want to hassle them. Any incite would be much appreciated!



I've had 2 now. (my original and then a re-build that JUST arrived). 

My first one showed up with NO warning. Total surprise. My only indicator was that I happened to be doing bills and saw they charged me for the balance- that SAME DAY UPS knocked on my door and voila. 

My re-build I only got an email with shipping confirmation/tracking. (truth be told, that made it all the more torturous knowing how long I actually had to wait. )


----------



## glp1996

Quick peek of mine


----------



## kevdes93

Amazing. blue mist metallic goes with the Vader so well


----------



## russmuller

I am soooooooooooo about to pull the trigger on a V7. I'm debating between 2 different themes, but one of them requires a little something different with the inlay. If they can accommodate it, I'll be getting the Grabber Blue. If not, it'll be Surf Green. We shall see...


----------



## haymez

I don't know about the rest of you Vader guys, but I am in love. I have had mine for a couple weeks now and I can't put them down. I've been playing for 30 years and I have never bonded so thoroughly and immediately with an instrument. Killer guitars.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Yeah, mine is pretty much my "Go to" seven string. Which in turn makes it my go to six string as well. If I had to keep just one guitar, my vader would be that one.


----------



## mphsc

Have to chime in as well... first Carvin I've really gotten into. I was torn on the aesthetic of the top carve at the forearm bevel but with the neck-thru showing those three purple heart stripes, it just ties it all together. The satin finish on the neck is right there with the J Custom neck finish. Opinion of course.


----------



## MetalThrasher

Nice! I want that in a grabber blue which I'm thinking about ordering soon!


----------



## Blasphemer

I've come to a conclusion after thinking about it for a few weeks (I'm a poor wishy-washy dude. Decisions get made and then abandoned a lot.)

I'm going to pick up a 6 string vader in grabber blue to essentially make the headless version of this:






I pulled the first half of the money out of the bank today, so I'm officially halfway there towards affording it.

If somebody wanted to photoshop that for me...


----------



## xwmucradiox

Does anyone know if the 6 string Vaders can handle baritone gauge strings? Im thinking about getting one but I would need to have a .074 on the low end and its unclear if these are meant to be baritones at 27" scale since the string options from Carvin are only 9s and 10s.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Ferret mentioned in his ngd thread that a 54 appeared to be the largest that would fit in a sixer. Not sure what the largest that would fit in a 7 or 8 though.


----------



## ferret

I'm using a 52 right now and it's a tad tight. My tech and I looked at it and decided 54 was probably the limit for a 6.

I just realized I had an leftover 75 from a DR Strings 8-string set. Just tried it, it does NOT fit in the slot.


----------



## JSanta

I was able to get a .066 for my low B on the 7 without issue.


----------



## xwmucradiox

I sent an email to Carvin to see what they say. Almost seems like these are just supposed to be long scale standard tuned guitars like a Soloway.


----------



## HighGain510

xwmucradiox said:


> I sent an email to Carvin to see what they say. Almost seems like these are just supposed to be long scale standard tuned guitars like a Soloway.



If a 54 fits in there, you should have no problem tuning lower than standard tuning? A 52 tunes down to C on 25.5" scale and just has a little bit of looseness to it, so I would imagine if you're tuning to around B or Bb with a 54 on 27" it would be totally fine. If you're trying to tune to Drop-G, yeah, you might have a bad time.


----------



## xwmucradiox

HighGain510 said:


> If a 54 fits in there, you should have no problem tuning lower than standard tuning? A 52 tunes down to C on 25.5" scale and just has a little bit of looseness to it, so I would imagine if you're tuning to around B or Bb with a 54 on 27" it would be totally fine. If you're trying to tune to Drop-G, yeah, you might have a bad time.



I use a 12-60 set and replace the 60 with a 74. The tuning I use is GGCFAD so yeah that bottom string is pretty low. The dearth of high quality baritones on the market is a total bummer. There is pretty much nothing between the $600 imports I currently use and $3000 custom guitars that I'm not going to bother with. I'd love to see Carvin put out a 27" scale SC90.


----------



## rifftrauma

FYI Carvins got a Ferrari Red V7 in stock right now for $1,309. If this was a six I would have scooped it up quick!


----------



## MetalBuddah

BEHOLD. Full post incoming.


----------



## Vairish

Blasphemer said:


> If somebody wanted to photoshop that for me...



Not perfect, but I only had a 5 min break to do it:


----------



## ThePIGI King

^ That's a beauty. Could someone with photoshop shop me an Orange one with a birdseye board with the MoP diamonds? I know I'm asking for a lot, but any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Vairish

ThePIGI King said:


> ^ That's a beauty. Could someone with photoshop shop me an Orange one with a birdseye board with the MoP diamonds? I know I'm asking for a lot, but any help would be appreciated.



Sure why not, it's too close to the weekend for me to focus in work anyways.


----------



## russmuller

There's just something about the Vader that draws me to the satin finish. I almost always prefer a gloss, but these just look like they're on a whole 'nother level with that matte.


----------



## raisingfear101

Vairish said:


> Not perfect, but I only had a 5 min break to do it:




Holy .... man, my grabber v7 is due to be finished next week. Scrolling through quickly I thought that was mine and had a mini heart attack lol


----------



## xwmucradiox

Carvin confirmed today that the biggest string the V6 can fit is a .060. Bummer.


----------



## mr coffee

Hmmm.... .060 at 27", how low you trying to go? I run a .060 at 25.5" on my RG7321 tuned to E standard with a low B, and it's perfect.

-m


----------



## JDTLH9

xwmucradiox said:


> Carvin confirmed today that the biggest string the V6 can fit is a .060. Bummer.



I am sure you'd be able to drill the hardware to fit bigger if you were brave enough. I did that on my first Ibby 7 string so I could put a 70 gauge through the tuning peg. I haven't seen the hipshot hardware up close yet though. My V7 won't be here for another few weeks. I will let you know if this looks easy enough when I get it


----------



## JDTLH9

xwmucradiox said:


> I use a 12-60 set and replace the 60 with a 74. The tuning I use is GGCFAD so yeah that bottom string is pretty low. The dearth of high quality baritones on the market is a total bummer. There is pretty much nothing between the $600 imports I currently use and $3000 custom guitars that I'm not going to bother with. I'd love to see Carvin put out a 27" scale SC90.



That is a sweet tuning. I think Dimebag used it in Pantera but I came across it through experimentation. Love the octave on the bottom 2 strings! Sikth currently use that tuning with the bottom 2 tuned to G# and The Safety Fire tune to it a full step higher with a low A string. 
I have since switched to 7 strings so you just have the extra 5th between the octave strings when in a dropped tuning


----------



## ThePIGI King

Vairish said:


> Sure why not, it's too close to the weekend for me to focus in work anyways.



You are probably one of my favorite people alive right now. I thank you for that awesome pic. My wallet, however, does not thank you.


----------



## feraledge

After seeing a bunch of these now, some of those tops are really slick, but the solid colors just look perfect on this. Seafoam and blue mist in particular are stunning.


----------



## mbardu

Incoming


----------



## mbardu

Actual non-mobile screenshot picture 






Yeah i know its a 6... but this is the one vader topic


----------



## andyjanson

Suddenly struck with gas for a 25.5" V6, how are you going about ordering these? I've been playing with the builder but it seems there's a lot of options that aren't listed on there?


----------



## ferret

Rule #1 with carvin is that the builder is to get a general idea what you want.... Then you call in to discuss and find out about other ideas/suggestions/unlisted options.

Call Chris Hong he'll get you sorted.


----------



## xzacx

mbardu said:


> Yeah i know its a 6... but this is the one vader topic



Wow, this is probably my favorite one i've seen yet.


----------



## mnemonic

These solid color tops have been on point.


----------



## MetalBuddah

mnemonic said:


> These solid color tops have been on point.



Because the forearm contour doesn't have that line from the figured wood tops lol The finishes look stunning on those but the line ruins the aesthetic.


----------



## decreebass

MetalBuddah said:


> Because the forearm contour doesn't have that line from the figured wood tops lol The finishes look stunning on those but the line ruins the aesthetic.



Meh. The contour/line grows on you. I agree that some of the solid ones have been on point, but it's a different kind of beauty than figured wood tops. I don't think the solids have been any nicer than the nice figured ones.


----------



## HighGain510

MetalBuddah said:


> Because the forearm contour doesn't have that line from the figured wood tops lol The finishes look stunning on those but the line ruins the aesthetic.





decreebass said:


> Meh. The contour/line grows on you. I agree that some of the solid ones have been on point, but it's a different kind of beauty than figured wood tops. I don't think the solids have been any nicer than the nice figured ones.



I dunno, the more I see the figured tops (especially non-bursted) with the sheer drop between the top and back wood showing on the top of the guitar, the less excited I am by the prospect of ordering another one with a figured top next time. Until they do a true drop top on these, it's solid colors only for me (and many others, it seems ). I still love the solid finish on my Vader because it accents the lines quite nicely, but honestly I would have preferred going with a nice figured top and just couldn't get past the top just stopping halfway down the forearm contour and it hasn't grown on me in the months since release.  That being said, the McLaren Yellow is absolutely calling my name so I am not entirely saddened by the prospect of another Vader with an opaque finish! 

My guess is that the reason they can't/won't do it is that it's probably because the process for doing a true drop top/bent top is different than the standard "glue it up, hit the CNC, sand and prep for paint" setup that Kiesel uses for everything else that Carvin/Kiesel build. It would require vacuum bag setups and much more time/space to do, and if he doesn't wish to do that because it's too much work, that's cool. But I still don't buy the "forearm contour is SOOOO steep, it's just not possible on these guitars!" explanation that was given in one of the videos where he answered that AMA question.   Not trying to rag on him here, but I've seen lots of other guitars with thick tops and similar forearm contours handle drop tops just fine, so the reasoning behind them shearing off a chunk of the top wood is merely for factory efficiency and not because it's physically impossible. That's his prerogative though (and I don't blame him), he wants to run an efficient factory and that's good for everyone in terms of wait time, but I think he's leaving a lot of cash on the table from all these orders being placed that would have had $200-600 more in options if those same folks who wanted figured tops had gone with a nice top and custom finish.  Time will tell if he realizes this and decides to dig into it some more and do the cost/benefit analysis to figure out if it's worth it to him.


----------



## JSanta

If anyone is interested, the one I had is up for sale by Carvin.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I could have sworn Kiesel bent the tops. There's a video, I believe involving the tone king, where they show the bending of the top. I find it hard to believe that they didn't try to get the top to bend properly. I'm not experienced in how bendy wood is, but if they think it's not wise, I'll take their word on it. With all the stuff that Kiesel is willing to do, I don't think it's a matter of cost on their part. I'll take the comfort of the contour over a blocky edge. Sure it's an opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs, but the cut really isn't worth mentioning. I certainly wouldn't talk about it like Kiesel will "realize the error of their ways" and start making them with the bent top or blocky/non chopped top. Judging by how many folks ordered tops, it's less of an issue than folks seem to think.

To be clear, I don't fault people for not liking it. I just find it weird that people seem to think that Kiesel just didn't try hard enough and that they'll maybe alter the design in the future when they're making plenty of money on their current design.


----------



## ferret

I don't think it's a matter of "didn't try hard enough." I think what bothers some people is that the reason given just doesn't seem valid. We'd rather him just say "Our production model doesn't fit with the extra steps and time required to bend the top properly."


----------



## HighGain510

ferret said:


> I don't think it's a matter of "didn't try hard enough." I think what bothers some people is that the reason given just doesn't seem valid. We'd rather him just say "Our production model doesn't fit with the extra steps and time required to bend the top properly."



Exactly.


----------



## mbardu

What other guitars from other builders have those steep tops with bent shape that you guys all seem to discuss? Do they offer the same choices of woods as Carvin does? Because maybe figured maple is easy to bend...but for instance plain maple or hard walnut (options for Carvin) are not?

Anyway - as far as I'm concerned I have enough figured tops in my collection and was planning a solid-top / natural back anyway - so the Vader is perfect for that as it is


----------



## mnemonic

decreebass said:


> Meh. The contour/line grows on you. I agree that some of the solid ones have been on point, but it's a different kind of beauty than figured wood tops. I don't think the solids have been any nicer than the nice figured ones.



I agree its a different kind of beauty. There's a certain clean, unembellished minimalism with a solid colored (or solid top) guitar that I don't feel is apparent with figured top guitars. 

Don't get me wrong, I like figured tops, and own expensive figured top guitars, but I'm starting to like the clean, plain look more and more, probably more so than figured tops at this point. 

The light airy looks of the seafoam green and light blue, with maple and white are a nice juxtaposition to all the black sevens and eights out there, too.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm actually curious what models have a similar short/steep cut that also offer drop tops. Anybody got any links/model names that do? It seems like a fairly unique cut to me, but some of Y'all (highgain mostly, as I see you've messed with some tasty axes) have fiddled with some higher end/non-standard axes that I may not be aware of.


----------



## andyjanson

Anyone else like the top cutoff? I think it looks cool  That said the solid colours look great too.


----------



## HighGain510

mbardu said:


> What other guitars from other builders have those steep tops with bent shape that you guys all seem to discuss? Do they offer the same choices of woods as Carvin does? Because maybe figured maple is easy to bend...but for instance plain maple or hard walnut (options for Carvin) are not?
> 
> Anyway - as far as I'm concerned I have enough figured tops in my collection and was planning a solid-top / natural back anyway - so the Vader is perfect for that as it is





Chokey Chicken said:


> I'm actually curious what models have a similar short/steep cut that also offer drop tops. Anybody got any links/model names that do? It seems like a fairly unique cut to me, but some of Y'all (highgain mostly, as I see you've messed with some tasty axes) have fiddled with some higher end/non-standard axes that I may not be aware of.



There are PLENTY of companies that do drop tops, this is not some sort of new technology, and many of them offer woods beyond just maple. If you need ME to prove it to you, here is a REAL comparison of a Vader with a guitar that has a true drop top/bent top so people can stop arguing the point. 

This is MY Vader next to MY Suhr Modern, both taken right now:











































There is your proof. My Suhr Modern Collection guitar even has a burl maple top which is not as easy to work with on drop tops due to the voids, so bending the top and not having it look like crap or cracking it is nice work on Suhr's part. Again, as you can see the slope on the Vader's forearm contour is not nearly as drastic as Jeff was trying to make it seem in his video (nor is it as steep as the Modern which is a fairly typical drop top forearm contour), yet Suhr can do it no problem. 

Again guys, in typical fashion, when I'm giving my opinion on stuff like this, it's usually based on fact and not just made up ideas as I go along like some people.  Clearly bending a top is possible without having to cut half of the forearm contour off, and clearly it's not difficult for Suhr as they're doing this every day with multiple woods. I had both guitars available in front of me since I had the Vader arrive so I saw the difference myself in person, which is why I was questioning this whole thing in the first place. If you want to say they can't do it because it's a cost/labor saving effort, I absolutely agree. If you want to say it's because it can't be done due to the forearm contour being too severe, I will call BS every time.


----------



## mbardu

OK thank you for the info but no need to be aggressive or condescending about it, I think those were sincere questions  no one denying or arguing anything - just asking. 

I have a Suhr modern right next to me and didn't even consider the contour so 'extreme'... I just haven't received my Vader yet to compare.


----------



## technomancer

mbardu said:


> OK thank you for the info but no need to be aggressive or condescending about it, I think those were sincere questions  no one denying or arguing anything - just asking.
> 
> I have a Suhr modern right next to me and didn't even consider the contour so 'extreme'... I just haven't received my Vader yet to compare.



I think the problem is there are a ton of people that believe whatever marketing crap they get shoveled that get VERY defensive and argumentative when you point out it isn't true. It gets really old after a while.


----------



## HighGain510

technomancer said:


> I think the problem is there are a ton of people that believe whatever marketing crap they get shoveled that get VERY defensive and argumentative when you point out it isn't true. It gets really old after a while.



This x 1000.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

That's a good post, and I'd +rep you for it if the system were still in place. I was honestly curious because I hadn't personally seen one quite so extreme. I wasn't calling your thoughts into question because as I said you've had a lot more experience with guitars, especially in the higher end, than me. You could have simply pointed me in the direction of Suhr (truth be told, I've never really looked at their guitars) and that would have been enough for me. Going out of your way to take pictures is appreciated though, especially because it really does highlight the issue without any room for speculation.

I must say, it's even more baffling though now knowing that it's definitely not too extreme of an angle. They already bend their tops, is it really that difficult to bend it just a bit more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rxc67NDaA4

That video shows that they bend the tops to fit their DC guitars. (the 6:30 mark is where they bend it.) It seems weird that they think that would be the limit. I still stand by the aesthetics being perfectly fine as is, but why make something up? Why not just say "that's the way we want it and have no interest in changing it?"


----------



## ferret

This also ties into how Carvin stopped offering the "show neck" option with tops (Except sometimes as an opt50 with some older models), where a top was glued around the neck woods. The claim was that the distance was "too short" for the glue to effectively hold the wood at the steeper forearm cut of the newer DC models. If my memory is serving right, this was in regards to DC127/DC727 older style models versus newer DC600/DC700s. "The cut is just too severe!" was used there too.

It simply isn't the real reason. It's fine if they don't want to do it, but...


----------



## technomancer

It tends to play better saying "it's not possible for us to do that" as opposed to saying "it's just cheaper and easier to build them this way".

That said, I'll still be ordering a solid color Vader sooner or later


----------



## HighGain510

Chokey Chicken said:


> That's a good post, and I'd +rep you for it if the system were still in place. I was honestly curious because I hadn't personally seen one quite so extreme. I wasn't calling your thoughts into question because as I said you've had a lot more experience with guitars, especially in the higher end, than me. You could have simply pointed me in the direction of Suhr (truth be told, I've never really looked at their guitars) and that would have been enough for me. Going out of your way to take pictures is appreciated though, especially because it really does highlight the issue without any room for speculation.



Just to be clear, that wasn't directed at you, man.  Since people have been jumping on me constantly (not just here) when I point out something honest that they don't want to hear and then start shouting "proof!!!", but once I point it out they seem to get all defensive as if they weren't just trying to attack me directly.  Im tired of it, honestly.  

Posting the pics was not anything negative pointed at you, your post was clearly harmless enough based on your wording, you only got quoted since you were asking what guitars had a steeper contour to the drop top forearm contour and the pics answered your question.  Figured the pics would stomp out any attempt at further bickering from some other folks who don't know when to stop.


----------



## geofreesun

actually if you look at the modern and the vader pix above, you need to think about the tangent line along the contour surface. for the modern, the contour is more convex whereas the vader is close to a flat surface starting from some place near the bridge, which means the _max_ angle of the bend along any point in that contour area on the vader is actually _larger_ than that of the modern. the stress on the modern is distributed more evenly in the contour area, but the vader would require a more extreme bend, followed by nearly zero bend towards the edge. at least that's how I see it. so _maybe_ it is actually hard to bend the top to fit the vader shape. but i don't think there is a lot of merit in arguing about this detail, both work and they look great.


----------



## MetalThrasher

Vairish said:


> Not perfect, but I only had a 5 min break to do it:


Can you please do this mockup again with a zebra wood board and white pickups. I'm so close to pulling the trigger but I need a visual before I do.


----------



## bloc

MetalThrasher said:


> Can you please do this mockup again with a zebra wood board and white pickups. I'm so close to pulling the trigger but I need a visual before I do.



http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/se...el-vader-7-blue-mist-metallic-first-post.html

^Close enough


----------



## olejason

Has anyone seen a black Vader with a black logo? I'm wondering if it looks nice and stealthy or just weird.


----------



## the.godfather

olejason said:


> Has anyone seen a black Vader with a black logo? I'm wondering if it looks nice and stealthy or just weird.



I'm pretty sure I remember someone on the Carvin forums doing this with a HH Headless Holdsworth build. Either that or they asked Carvin just to leave off the logo altogether. Looked good whichever it was.


----------



## Vairish

MetalThrasher said:


> Can you please do this mockup again with a zebra wood board and white pickups. I'm so close to pulling the trigger but I need a visual before I do.



No worries dude!






And a zebra variation:


----------



## spudmunkey

Carvin has always seemed to me, except for a few flashes of brilliance through the years, really depends on the tried-and-true for their guitars and basses. Even their modern designs use fairly traditionally-available techniques and components. Sure they customize the Hipshot Vader bridge, or for the HH headless...they still used an off-the rack bridge system, unlike G&L or MusicMan who have completely custom designs for their bridges.

I think a good example of this is how they glue the top contours. In the video linked above, they show how they glue their drop tops. They get it slightly wet on a bend point to make it flexible...but it's still just a solid flat top. You can see how Carvin's got a more severe bend and a flatter forearm "plateau". 

Here are two images of how Anderson does it. They under-cut the wood, so that it can bend more easily, and can give a smoother radiused contour. The slots/grooves also have a solid outline so that when it's placed on a guitar body, and the excess is trimmed off, you still get a solid wood BBE edge.

Now, I actually don't find this style as comfortable as the Vader's "flat" style. When you rest your arm on a radius, you still only get one small pressure point on your arm. Is it more comfortable than a Les Paul's edge? Absolutely...but I find having a large point of contact, more of the flat surface area of the contoured area, to be more comfortable...but it only makes a difference if your style of play and your position allows for your arm to take advantage of it and if it's at the right angle for you. The Suhr/Anderson style absolutely looks better, and can give it's less-optimized comfort to more players.


----------



## TheRileyOBrien

It's not a matter of whether they can. Obviously it can be done. 

Carvin doesn't want to spend the resources on tooling up to do it. They probably will later on. I think they are moving to a bigger building also so I am sure lots of production changes will happen.


----------



## MetalThrasher

Vairish said:


> No worries dude!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a zebra variation:


Thanks brother! You're the man!


----------



## HighGain510

My bigger problem right now is McLaren Yellow vs Grabber Blue... I'm leaning towards gloss yellow with black raw tone back.  I keep debating between keeping my DC800 or letting it go to snag a Vader 8 in one of those two finish combos. Tough decision as they both look great, especially on the Vader carves as they stand now.


----------



## ferret

Yellow with black back has my vote, either straight black gloss or "raw tone"


----------



## HighGain510

ferret said:


> Yellow with black back has my vote, either straight black gloss or "raw tone"



Yeah McLaren yellow is kinda taking the lead in my head right now as well.  As far as the back goes I really like the look (and by extension, likely the feel) of the black raw tone finish so I'm guessing that would be the winner as well.


----------



## technomancer

I'm from Pittsburgh, so black and yellow definitely has my vote 

Actually been considering a six in grabber blue and a seven in black and yellow once my gear fund is replenished post-Holcomb impulse buy


----------



## HighGain510

technomancer said:


> I'm from Pittsburgh, so black and yellow definitely has my vote



Oh, I didn't even think about that... Might need to reconsider...


----------



## technomancer

HighGain510 said:


> Oh, I didn't even think about that... Might need to reconsider...


----------



## olejason

Sorry if I missed it but has anyone posted a picture of a vader with a black limba body/neck? Preferably with a painted top. Trying to get an idea of what it would look like. 

I'm considering a black swamp ash top w/ the open grain finish. One thing I'm unsure of is how the forearm cut would look with the open grain finish. I understand the paint would cover the forearm contour but would it look weird over the limba portion?


----------



## HighGain510

olejason said:


> Sorry if I missed it but has anyone posted a picture of a vader with a black limba body/neck? Preferably with a painted top. Trying to get an idea of what it would look like.
> 
> I'm considering a black swamp ash top w/ the open grain finish. One thing I'm unsure of is how the forearm cut would look with the open grain finish. I understand the paint would cover the forearm contour but would it look weird over the limba portion?



It will look like this but on the back instead:


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Mine's supposed to ship 6-16! I swear I think I was better off not knowing that!


----------



## MetalThrasher

Ok guys, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Vader group buy tomorrow but I need some help! Can someone please make a mock up phot of this V7 please! I was going to get the basic package but I think I'm going all out on this bad boy!
V7 = $1949.00 
Standard specs: Luminlay side dots, Ash body sides, Rear Natural Clear, Tung Oil Neck, Hardwood back plate 
Top: Flame Maple 
Scale: 25.5 
Radius: 20 
5pcs necks: Maple/Purple Heart 
Fret Board: Birdseye Maple (BEM) 
Color Treated on BEM: Blue 
Inlays: Diamonds - Black 12th fret only 
Frets: EVO Gold 
Jumbo 
Pickup Color: Black and White 
Drop Shadow Logo: Gold 
Misc Options: Tone Knob Delete 
Cali Burst Colors : Blue 
Rear Ash: Antique Ash Treatment and Binding 
Finish: Gloss 
Back plate: Purple Heart


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

^
I think you'll be looking at spending much more than your final price at the top, plus I don't think they do luminary side dots at all, the Kiesel treated boards are at least $200, antique ash treatment is another $200, removing tone knob is a $100 and an opt 50, cali burst is alittle but of an up charge, and to have custom wood covers done is around $200 as well.. At least that's what I was quoted a ways back when I wanted all those specs done. But maybe you already got a quote from them because if you got it for that price with all those options it's a steal!
Hope someone makes a mockup of this tho cause I would love to see it!


----------



## rifftrauma

Greenbrettiscool said:


> ^
> I think you'll be looking at spending much more than your final price at the top, plus I don't think they do luminary side dots at all, the Kiesel treated boards are at least $200, antique ash treatment is another $200, removing tone knob is a $100 and an opt 50, cali burst is alittle but of an up charge, and to have custom wood covers done is around $200 as well.. At least that's what I was quoted a ways back when I wanted all those specs done. But maybe you already got a quote from them because if you got it for that price with all those options it's a steal!
> Hope someone makes a mockup of this tho cause I would love to see it!




These are all options that are part of the run, he's just spec'ing off the Carvin spread sheet they shot out.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

^awhh I see, didn't want to be a killjoy, I just hate it when I go off of pricing from what people say and then get disappointed when I spec out something and turns out 2x more.
Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Wait, when did they start doing the luminlay side dots on these!?


----------



## ferret

It's a first on this Vader run, will be an option officially sometime soon.


----------



## MetalThrasher

I'm going to pull the trigger and call first thing tomorrow to order this on the group buy! I was going to get a basic V7 but once I saw this group buy deal I'm going to treat myself!
Standard specs: Luminlay side dots, Ash body sides, Rear Natural Clear, Tung Oil Neck, Hardwood back plate 
Top: Flame Maple 
Scale: 25.5 
Radius: 20&#8221; 
5pcs necks: Maple/Purple Heart 
Fret Board: Birdseye Maple (BEM) 
Color Treated on BEM: Aqua
Inlays: Non 
Frets: EVO Gold 
Jumbo 
Pickup Color: White 
Drop Shadow Logo: Gold 
Misc Options: Tone Knob Delete 
Cali Burst Colors : Blue 
Rear Ash: Antique Ash Treatment and Binding 
Finish: Gloss 
Back plate: Purple Heart


----------



## olejason

You guys should check out demos of the tone knob before you make up your mind on tossing it. It actually sounds really usable.


----------



## mbardu

olejason said:


> You guys should check out demos of the tone knob before you make up your mind on tossing it. It actually sounds really usable.



Really?
On mine it doesn't do much 
Or the usual "nothing for 90% of the range than sharp drop and muddy all the way down". 

Which is even weirder considering it works very well on my other Carvins!
Go figure..


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I use the tone knob tons on mine. The pickups have a lot of high end that sounds great with the tone knob dialed back a bit. Certainly worth keeping in my opinion. Probably the most used tone knob on any of my guitars.


----------



## andyjanson

Can anyone explain to me what the difference is with this group run? I can't really see what features are unique to it other than the luminlays?


----------



## ferret

There's a discount involved, the luminlays and some new colors, but otherwise there's nothing in it that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get.


----------



## Might-is-Right

Can someone fill me in on the group buy? Cant find any info on it...


----------



## olejason

It's all on facebook


----------



## mbardu

Some eye candy in the meantime...






























I had been debating about returning this one (just received) and ordering from the run... but the wood choices are a turn off for me.

I wanted a Vader with Natural back and dark 5-piece neck.


----------



## gunch

can you get one with just plain ash wings and no top/ neck showing with natural fininsh through the website or do you have to call it in?


----------



## spudmunkey

silverabyss said:


> can you get one with just plain ash wings and no top/ neck showing with natural fininsh through the website or do you have to call it in?



No, that should be available through the website. Pick your neck and body, then just don't add a top.


----------



## rifftrauma

ferret said:


> There's a discount involved, the luminlays and some new colors, but otherwise there's nothing in it that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get.



So I got in on the run yesterday, a couple of things that that were not mentioned in the initial specs include Jeff's personal involvement. I guess it depends on what you order, but Jeff will be picking out the top wood and personally finishing some of them. I ordered from the "premium" side of the run so I can speak for the solid color portion, but I was presented with these options when I talked with the Rep over the phone. Not sure if this tips people's interests one way or the other, and there is an obvious up charge for some of the options, but it thought it was kind of a cool thing they included.

Looks like the run is going to re-start today but will also be ending today as well. Hope this helps anyone who was debating.


----------



## MetalThrasher

^ What specs did you have for your order?


----------



## rifftrauma

MetalThrasher said:


> ^ What specs did you have for your order?




V6 Premium Vader
Luminlay Side Dots
20" Fretboard Radius
Ash Body Sides (blacked out with the Trans White option)
Rear Natural Clear
Flame Maple Top hand picked by Jeff
Tung Oil Neck
Purple Heart Hardwood Back Plate
25.5" Scale
5 Piece Maple with Purple Heart Neck
Color Treated Birdseye Maple Fretboard (Black)
No inlays
Stainless Steel Jumbo Frets
Black Kiesel Lithium pickups
Gold Drop Shadow Logo
No Tone Knob
Trans White Gloss Finish personally done by Jeff (what I was told, not sure if he's hand doing all the Cali-Burst finishes or not)
Chambered Body


----------



## hairychris

Was kind of interested in the run, but if I wanted a plain one with chambering and purpleheart neck the price bumped up by $200. I'm yet to be convinced by Carvin's bursts too.

I'm planning, at some point, to get a V6 (25.5, satin, figured walnut top, birdseye maple fboard, etc) but there wasn't enough of a saving to get me interested this time round.


----------



## Dusty Chalk

I don't mind spending a little more dosh to do this later, I did not do my research and don't have time now, but I don't want to miss out on an option that won't be available at all later -- will I be able to get a purpleheart top later? Is that an option 50? I think that's the only one.


----------



## ferret

Would be an option 50 for purpleheart top I believe, but they should be willing. Purple heart in necks is already standard. The luminlay side dots will be available officially soon too.


----------



## spudmunkey

Unfortuantely for me, the options were too limited as well. It took a few reads through several posts and the PDF's to (maybe?) understand what the actual included and available options were for some of the options.

I think the problem was that the spec sheets and option descriptions were put together by someone who isn't necessarily as versed in how some of Carvin's/Kiesel's options work, and how they interact with other options. Some of the verbiage I thought was unclear, especially involving the finishes on the back of the guitar. I think spending another 20 minutes on the spec sheets, from someone who's more familiar with how some of the options work, to include a few more details could have solved a lot of the ambiguity for me.

It also didn't help that there were some finishes with names but no examples. Do a google image search for "British Racing Green" and you'll find a half dozen different versions.


----------



## Inceptic

mbardu said:


> Some eye candy in the meantime...



What are the specs on this one? It looks gorgeous!


----------



## Dusty Chalk

spudmunkey said:


> Unfortuantely for me, the options were too limited as well. It took a few reads through several posts and the PDF's to (maybe?) understand what the actual included and available options were for some of the options.
> 
> I think the problem was that the spec sheets and option descriptions were put together by someone who isn't necessarily as versed in how some of Carvin's/Kiesel's options work, and how they interact with other options. Some of the verbiage I thought was unclear, especially involving the finishes on the back of the guitar. I think spending another 20 minutes on the spec sheets, from someone who's more familiar with how some of the options work, to include a few more details could have solved a lot of the ambiguity for me.
> 
> It also didn't help that there were some finishes with names but no examples. Do a google image search for "British Racing Green" and you'll find a half dozen different versions.


Yeah, for example, they should have put the cali burst options next to the different top stains, since they're mutually exclusive.

Decided not to chance it, got one with a gloss purpleheart top, Kieseled BEM neck, and PINK. BLOCK. INLAYS. #vibrantlikeaboss #likewhoa #yougotaproblemwiththat #ilikestartingarguments 

And no, I'm not going to put Hannah Montana stickers on it.





See, now it's appropriate.


----------



## russmuller

I decided not to jump onboard with this run. I really like the luminlay side dots and color raw-tone finishes, but a lot of the options that were a part of this run just didn't fit what I want in my Vader. So I guess I'm gonna wait until those options are available for general customers before I order mine.


----------



## mbardu

Inceptic said:


> What are the specs on this one? It looks gorgeous!



*V6 25'5 (sorry, I have small hands  ) 
*Alder wings
*5-piece walnut maple neck wmwmw
*plain maple top
*blue mist metallic 
*satin clear finish 
*Rnc rear natural
*flamed maple board 

The top is indeed a requirement to get the Rnc...


----------



## Adam Of Angels

Didn't realize who was organizing this run when the ad popped up on facebook, then I tried to join the group and get some info only to be blocked  Feel like I'm in 3rd grade again 

Hope Kiesel is making his money somehow.


----------



## rifftrauma

Adam Of Angels said:


> Didn't realize who was organizing this run when the ad popped up on facebook, then I tried to join the group and get some info only to be blocked  Feel like I'm in 3rd grade again
> 
> Hope Kiesel is making his money somehow.



If you're interested let me know and I can send you the spec sheets. Also ChrisH from Kiesel/Carvin is a member here and he's the guy doing most of the leg work on their end. I don't know the back story but I can only imagine why a certain special someone wouldn't let you in.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

It's not one particular person, just some people don't know when to hang it up, that's all. I'm over it. Not for here, I guess.

I'm still very interested in one of these Vaders, especially with the single pickup, but I sort of have a bad taste in my mouth. I'll get to play a friend's eventually, I suppose.


----------



## Inceptic

mbardu said:


> *V6 25'5 (sorry, I have small hands  )
> *Alder wings
> *5-piece walnut maple neck wmwmw
> *plain maple top
> *blue mist metallic
> *satin clear finish
> *Rnc rear natural
> *flamed maple board
> 
> The top is indeed a requirement to get the Rnc...



Thanks man!


----------



## mphsc

Dammit I caved...

V8
Ash sides w/Ash top
Raw Tone Finish: White
Maple neck
Rosewood fretboard
No inlays
Stainless frets 
Zebra p/u's, b/w
silver logo
Rosewood backplate

Should go nice with my other. 

V8
Limba sides w/Purple Heart top w/see-thru neck
High gloss
7 piece neck, limba & purple heart
birdseye Maple fb
Rosewood knobs
Alalone Diamond inlays
Gold EVO frets 
Cream p/u's
gold logo
PH backplate

and I love it.


----------



## Dusty Chalk

You have a purple heart top? Pictures?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the purpleheart thread on Carvinbbs.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Adam Of Angels said:


> It's not one particular person, just some people don't know when to hang it up, that's all. I'm over it. Not for here, I guess.
> 
> I'm still very interested in one of these Vaders, especially with the single pickup, but I sort of have a bad taste in my mouth. I'll get to play a friend's eventually, I suppose.



If you called Chris or Mike at Carvin, they woulda let you in no prob. I know theres a big rift between a lot of people from the old SS.org days (hell I dislike a bunch too, even some still posting here.. but thankfully most went to "that other metal forum" haha..) but Carvin is a business, they want to sell guitars, and even if one guy was the one to convince Jeff to do this run, he cant say "This person is not allowed to buy one".

Trust me, no sense having a bad taste in your mouth for Carvin about two guys who are not even affiliated with the company other than trying to organize this run, and buying a few of their Kiesel Editions. It's not Carvin's fault they accepted money for guitar purchases ;o

In other words.. Go buy a Vader!


----------



## Electric Wizard

spudmunkey said:


> It also didn't help that there were some finishes with names but no examples. Do a google image search for "British Racing Green" and you'll find a half dozen different versions.


So I'm totally out of the loop in regards to whatever is going on with this vader run, but are you saying that Carvin is doing racing green now? Please be saying that...


----------



## Dusty Chalk

Yes, they did British racing green and a couple other colours for the first time in this run, I think they said they'll be adding them later.

EDIT: also, blood red. Don't know if that means oxygenated blood (bright red) or dried blood (dark red).


----------



## Guamskyy

Just got off the phone with one of the Carvin/Kiesel reps regarding luminlay side dots- $30 upcharge.

So for you folks like me who didn't get in on the run but want luminlays for a future build, there you go!


----------



## olejason

Answers to a few questions I've had...

Luminlays are now available on any guitar and are $30
The open grain raw tone finish is available at no additional charge

Now I just need to decide between ebony and zebrawood for the board. I've always preferred ebony on guitars but the zebrawood is growing on me.


----------



## MetalBuddah

olejason said:


> Answers to a few questions I've had...
> 
> Luminlays are now available on any guitar and are $30
> The open grain raw tone finish is available at no additional charge
> 
> Now I just need to decide between ebony and zebrawood for the board. I've always preferred ebony on guitars but the zebrawood is growing on me.



This gives me 2 more reasons to order another vader lol


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Mine shipped out last night! Scheduled to be here by Friday. Luckily for me I put in for some PTO on a random week just to use some of it and this Friday is one of those days!


----------



## Guamskyy

Temptations got the best of me- placed my order this evening!

Specs off the top of my head are:

V7 Lefty
25.5" scale length
Maple Neck/Swamp Ash Body
Mahogany Top
Chambered body
Satin diamond pearl white
Clear satin back, sides, & neck finish
Flame maple fretboard
Abalone dots
SS med-jumbo frets
Luminlay side dots! (blue; the only color they offer at the moment and that's perfectly fine with me)
14" radius
White humbuckers (thinking about changing them to creme or zebra)

I'm super excited about this, and Chris informed because of the vader run they did, he expects this build will take about 2 months or so!


----------



## spudmunkey

As for the Lumilay dots, they only use the newer brighter/longer-output material, and it only comes in blue and green (both look green when they aren't glowing) and they only currently offer the blue. I kinda wish there were an orange, red or especially white. I think green dots with a honeyburst would look really weird.


----------



## feraledge

hairychris said:


> I'm yet to be convinced by Carvin's bursts too.



Sad truth.


----------



## Guamskyy

spudmunkey said:


> As for the Lumilay dots, they only use the newer brighter/longer-output material, and it only comes in blue and green (both look green when they aren't glowing) and they only currently offer the blue. I kinda wish there were an orange, red or especially white. I think green dots with a honeyburst would look really weird.



Yes, when I was on the phone with Chris talking about the luminlays for my order, he said they chose the blue color only because to them, the blue was the brightest color when illuminated in a dark room. I trust their judgement!


----------



## russmuller

olejason said:


> Answers to a few questions I've had...
> 
> Luminlays are now available on any guitar and are $30
> The open grain raw tone finish is available at no additional charge
> 
> Now I just need to decide between ebony and zebrawood for the board. I've always preferred ebony on guitars but the zebrawood is growing on me.



Well that was quick! lol Man, I'm gonna have to sell my DC7X to finance my Vader.


----------



## Jonathan20022

feraledge said:


> Sad truth.









Best believe


----------



## SnowfaLL

*mod edit: please keep things on topic, this thread is about the Carvin Vader*


----------



## oremus91

olejason said:


> but the zebrawood is growing on me.



So that's where it comes from.


----------



## JDTLH9

My new V7 appeared on the FB page today.
The top looks amazing! 






Full NGD will get posted when I receive her


----------



## feraledge

That top is a straight up kaleidoscope. Very impressive!


----------



## Veritech Zero

My card just got charged! She's officially on her way to me


----------



## Dusty Chalk

JDTLH9 said:


> My new V7 appeared on the FB page today.
> The top looks amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full NGD will get posted when I receive her


Dayum, that is spectacular. I would call it "Souleater" because it looks like one of those movie special effects when there are a lot of ghosts trapped in an object.


----------



## Dyingsea

Is the Vader run closed? Tried to join the group several days ago just to see options but never received an acceptance.


----------



## morbidus

Attn. Vader owners - does the bridge dig in to your leg if you hold the guitar in the classical position? 

I play that way 95% of the time seated with the lower cut out on my left leg and the area behind the bridge (which is usually round) on the inside of my right thigh so I worry about it being an issue. Any info would be appreciated because I can't quite tell from the angle if it would be an issue or not but I really think it may be.


----------



## Guamskyy

Dyingsea said:


> Is the Vader run closed? Tried to join the group several days ago just to see options but never received an acceptance.



I believe so: I think the cap was 100 and they reached that relatively quickly.

For anyone that did get on the run, did you guys get an ETA? I didn't get in on the run but I placed my order so close to the when the run was initiated that Chris said my build will probably be completed around the same time the run will be, which he said 2 months or so. I'll probably send Chris an email soon about it but I wanted to see if you guys knew.


----------



## bathtimestrummer

morbidus said:


> Attn. Vader owners - does the bridge dig in to your leg if you hold the guitar in the classical position?



I don't find that it does. I play mine in the classical position because it orients the fret positions in a more familiar way to me, and I don't find it uncomfortable at all. Quite the opposite, I think it's the most comfortable guitar I've ever played. Full disclosure: I have not tried to play it naked, yet.


----------



## rifftrauma

guambomb832 said:


> I believe so: I think the cap was 100 and they reached that relatively quickly.
> 
> For anyone that did get on the run, did you guys get an ETA? I didn't get in on the run but I placed my order so close to the when the run was initiated that Chris said my build will probably be completed around the same time the run will be, which he said 2 months or so. I'll probably send Chris an email soon about it but I wanted to see if you guys knew.



There were only 100 spots available and the run closed in about 24 hours. The ETA we've been given was early August. There's a facebook group just for the confirmed members where pictures, video's and updates are posted by Jeff and Chris. So far they've been pretty awesome about communication and letting us know what's going on.


----------



## Veritech Zero

I'm going to let the honeymoon period end before I go posting a NGD, but so far this is my hands down favorite guitar. Plays like a dream, and the Kiesel pickups sound better than just about any other stock pickup I've ever tried.


----------



## Greenbrettiscool

^holy hell that thing is so ...... Nice job dude! Turned out beautiful, and dat flame!!


----------



## Quitty

Just speccing out mine.
Is that run still on? Who do i contact?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Veritech Zero said:


> I'm going to let the honeymoon period end before I go posting a NGD, but so far this is my hands down favorite guitar. Plays like a dream, and the Kiesel pickups sound better than just about any other stock pickup I've ever tried.



Gotta say, that's the ONLY figured top one I dig. The burst makes that forearm cut work. 

Nice job.


----------



## Guamskyy

Quitty said:


> Just speccing out mine.
> Is that run still on? Who do i contact?



The run is over unfortunately, all back to regular prices now. Plus side is that luminlays are an option now for a $30 upcharge.


----------



## decreebass

Yea, the run gave you a pretty nice discount on options, but a few hundred bucks wasn't motivation enough to buy another guitar that I didn't need  I think I'll wait until the GAS becomes uncontrollable and then order all the options that I want (though I think it's gonna be a simpler build this time).

It was a good deal if you were already in the market for a Vader, but not impulse buy-worthy, once-in-a-lifetime sort of deal thing, IMO.


----------



## MiPwnYew

I've been wanting a Vader so bad lately. 

Does anyone know if the saddles could be swapped out with piezo saddles?


----------



## technomancer

MiPwnYew said:


> I've been wanting a Vader so bad lately.
> 
> Does anyone know if the saddles could be swapped out with piezo saddles?



That would be a good question to ask Hipshot, if the saddles are exchangeable with the "normal" Hipshot saddles the Graphtech saddles made for the normal Hipshot bridges should work if you drill out the bridge baseplate.

That said the intonation screw looks to be offset on the headless bridges and IIRC the standard saddles are not so it probably won't work until Graphtech decides to make saddles for the new bridges.


----------



## ianc

Guys I am getting so close to ordering one of these. The tops all look great but can some of you who have them post pics of the backs please. if I do not select anything on the custom builder will the guitar come with just an oil on the back?


----------



## ianc

What a beautiful guitar. I am so close to making my final decisions. I want my back to look like yours, If I do not make any choices on the back and other finishes option on the custom builder is this how it will come?




mbardu said:


> *V6 25'5 (sorry, I have small hands  )
> *Alder wings
> *5-piece walnut maple neck wmwmw
> *plain maple top
> *blue mist metallic
> *satin clear finish
> *Rnc rear natural
> *flamed maple board
> 
> The top is indeed a requirement to get the Rnc...


----------



## MiPwnYew

technomancer said:


> That would be a good question to ask Hipshot, if the saddles are exchangeable with the "normal" Hipshot saddles the Graphtech saddles made for the normal Hipshot bridges should work if you drill out the bridge baseplate.
> 
> That said the intonation screw looks to be offset on the headless bridges and IIRC the standard saddles are not so it probably won't work until Graphtech decides to make saddles for the new bridges.



Yeah, I just noticed the screw being offset to the left on the stock saddles. However, I was browsing graphtech's website and came across an offset version.

product-detail

Not sure about the measurements, or if it's even feasible to retrofit piezo saddles and the electronics into a Vader. I can dream though!


----------



## TheBigGroove

^^I was all in a fuss about piezo-modding a few years back...then I finally got a nice acoustic. 

Ordered an alder/limba Vader last week. Pretty stoked about it totally in love with how the Vader looks. it looks. Went an option 50 tangerine kind of color in matte finish.


----------



## Guamskyy

ianc said:


> Guys I am getting so close to ordering one of these. The tops all look great but can some of you who have them post pics of the backs please. if I do not select anything on the custom builder will the guitar come with just an oil on the back?



I believe the standard will be whatever finish you have on the front, you get on the back (gloss front= glass back, matte front= matte back, and that's unless you specify), so if nothing is selected that is going to be the outcome. I know it may seem a little inconvenient because I thought so too, but order via phone rather than the online custom builder. That way you get instant feedback and plus any questions you got will be answered right on the spot.


----------



## mbardu

ianc said:


> What a beautiful guitar. I am so close to making my final decisions. I want my back to look like yours, If I do not make any choices on the back and other finishes option on the custom builder is this how it will come?



No, to get that look you need t oorder a top wood and get the Rnc option. Otherwise the finish will be the same all around the instrument.


----------



## Dram Horst

Hey guys-

Working on a spec'ing out a V7 right now and have been in contact with Keith at Kiesel. Almost settled on my options, but I figured I'd reach out to see if anyone else has any cool ideas that I haven't thought of for this. The specs:

_-V7 7 STR VADER HEADLESS 
-MAH CLEAR MAPLE NECK/MAHOGANY 
-FDB DEEP BLUE OVER FLAME 
-CMB CHAMBERED BODY 
-CS CLEAR SATIN MATTE FINISH 
-BBEB BODY BINDING EFFECT on BEV 
-RNC REAR BODY/NECK NATURAL CLE 
-RTF RAW TONE ULTRA-THIN SATIN 

-255 25.5" Scale Option 
-TN TUNG OIL FINISH BACK OF NE 
-FMF FLAMED MAPLE FINGERBOARD 
-NIN NO TOP INLAYS-SIDE DOTS ON 
-SDL LUMINLAY SIDE DOTS 
-STJF STAINLESS STEEL JUMBO FRET 

-405 PICKUP CREME/BLACK

-DSLB DROP SHADOW LOGO BLACK _


Pretty set on everything here other than the finish and the fretboard options. For the fretboard, I'm going back and forth between flamed maple and ebony. I like the idea of flamed maple a BIT more, but the luminlays would void the return period and be hard to see when not glowing. Ebony solves both problems, but isn't quite as pretty as flamed maple 

As for finish, here are my dilemmas:

-*Deep Blue Stain over Flamed Maple*- Leaning towards this, but I want to talk to Kiesel again to make sure it's going to be dark enough in shade for me 
-* Blue Cali Burst *- I like most of the cali bursts I've seen, but all of the blues I've seen look very light blue
-*Faded Blue Denim* - Almost every picture I've seen of this finish is stunning

I figured I'd turn to the think-tank that is SSO for some input here on those particular issues. Also, if anyone has any other thoughts on this build or suggestions, I'm all ears! I'm new to the Carvin/Kiesel game, s some of you guys more familiar with the Opt 50s might have some ideas that I'm not even aware are options, so let's hear them!


----------



## SnowfaLL

Finally in on this group!


----------



## Guamskyy

I emailed Chris asking what my ETA would be and he told me 8/12, give or take a couple days before or after. Ahhhh so excited!


----------



## ThePIGI King

^That's one day under 6 weeks (or 6 weeks assuming he said that yesterday). That sounds very ambitious to me, but I've never ordered a Carvin before either...


----------



## Guamskyy

ThePIGI King said:


> ^That's one day under 6 weeks (or 6 weeks assuming he said that yesterday). That sounds very ambitious to me, but I've never ordered a Carvin before either...



It was said yesterday, and I placed my order about 2 weeks ago. Chris said that their ETA emails haven't been working lately, so if the ETAs are given alongside when your order is invoiced, that means mine is an 8 week build time and to me that is still excellent and fast as hell.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

I got mine June 19th but moved to a new house two days later. I'll have an NGD thread once the kitchen is finished.


----------



## JDTLH9

JDTLH9 said:


> My new V7 appeared on the FB page today.
> The top looks amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full NGD will get posted when I receive her



I have posted a short unboxing video of this V7 here if anyone is interested


----------



## JDTLH9

Dram Horst said:


> Hey guys-
> 
> Working on a spec'ing out a V7 right now and have been in contact with Keith at Kiesel. Almost settled on my options, but I figured I'd reach out to see if anyone else has any cool ideas that I haven't thought of for this. The specs:
> 
> _-V7 7 STR VADER HEADLESS
> -MAH CLEAR MAPLE NECK/MAHOGANY
> -FDB DEEP BLUE OVER FLAME
> -CMB CHAMBERED BODY
> -CS CLEAR SATIN MATTE FINISH
> -BBEB BODY BINDING EFFECT on BEV
> -RNC REAR BODY/NECK NATURAL CLE
> -RTF RAW TONE ULTRA-THIN SATIN
> 
> -255 25.5" Scale Option
> -TN TUNG OIL FINISH BACK OF NE
> -FMF FLAMED MAPLE FINGERBOARD
> -NIN NO TOP INLAYS-SIDE DOTS ON
> -SDL LUMINLAY SIDE DOTS
> -STJF STAINLESS STEEL JUMBO FRET
> 
> -405 PICKUP CREME/BLACK
> 
> -DSLB DROP SHADOW LOGO BLACK _
> 
> 
> Pretty set on everything here other than the finish and the fretboard options. For the fretboard, I'm going back and forth between flamed maple and ebony. I like the idea of flamed maple a BIT more, but the luminlays would void the return period and be hard to see when not glowing. Ebony solves both problems, but isn't quite as pretty as flamed maple
> 
> As for finish, here are my dilemmas:
> 
> -*Deep Blue Stain over Flamed Maple*- Leaning towards this, but I want to talk to Kiesel again to make sure it's going to be dark enough in shade for me
> -* Blue Cali Burst *- I like most of the cali bursts I've seen, but all of the blues I've seen look very light blue
> -*Faded Blue Denim* - Almost every picture I've seen of this finish is stunning
> 
> I figured I'd turn to the think-tank that is SSO for some input here on those particular issues. Also, if anyone has any other thoughts on this build or suggestions, I'm all ears! I'm new to the Carvin/Kiesel game, s some of you guys more familiar with the Opt 50s might have some ideas that I'm not even aware are options, so let's hear them!



I would consider going 27" on the 7 string. The extra 1.5" is barely noticeable across the whole scale and overall the tension and feel is much better than my 25.5" 7 string guitar. I tune my 27" V7 to standard with 9.5 gauge strings and the tension feels identical to 10's on a regular scale 6 string guitar. Something to consider


----------



## ianc

JDTLH9 said:


> I have posted a short unboxing video of this V7 here if anyone is interested





Dude I am sure that is the one I seen ont he Kiesel FB page that made me decide I need one in my life. Congrats. Beautiful looking guitar.


----------



## Dram Horst

JDTLH9 said:


> I would consider going 27" on the 7 string. The extra 1.5" is barely noticeable across the whole scale and overall the tension and feel is much better than my 25.5" 7 string guitar. I tune my 27" V7 to standard with 9.5 gauge strings and the tension feels identical to 10's on a regular scale 6 string guitar. Something to consider



I've definitely thought about it! The longer scale on the lower strings is a main reason I was originally leaning toward the Boden OS. The longer scale across the board makes some of lead and chordal stuff I do just uncomfortable enough to be noticeable, so having a slight fan does help. I'll eventually add the Boden to the arsenal, but hopefully they'll add more pickup options at some point. 

Still haven't ordered the Vader as I'm still undecided on the finish. The extreme doctoring of the photos they put online makes it REALLY hard to guage things.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Okay, we've got a few providers out so we don't have a bunch of patients today which has given me a little bit of time to post a few pics of my Vader. Not enough time for a full on NGD thread, but I can at least show her off. She's all Koa except for the fret board and knobs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

IChuckFinleyI said:


> Okay, we've got a few providers out so we don't have a bunch of patients today which has given me a little bit of time to post a few pics of my Vader. Not enough time for a full on NGD thread, but I can at least show her off. She's all Koa except for the fret board and knobs.



Really digging the minimalist vibe, another gorgeous Vader that's a bit different.


----------



## CudBucket

Got mine a few weeks ago.


----------



## Quitty

Joining the bandwagon;
All-antique ash V7 with a maple neck and ebony board. 

Anyone here used BKP Rebel-Yells? Can you compare them with the Lithiums?


----------



## bonga

What's the take on alder with maple top versus alder with walnut top. Will the walnut top significantly impact the tone? Especially with a chambered vader?


----------



## BouhZik

Hey Guys! You are making me gas so hard for a vader with all those pics... How much do they charge for the one pickup/one knob option? Thanks!!


----------



## BouhZik

got my answer: $100 for one pickup and one knob, making the guitar nonrefundable.

(sorry for the double-post. I can't edit the previous one anymore)


----------



## gpbarnett

Had Jeff Kiesel build me a V7, it only came with one fret! (the zero fret). Think I should ask for a refund for the missing frets?


----------



## chewpac

gpbarnett said:


> Had Jeff Kiesel build me a V7, it only came with one fret! (the zero fret). Think I should ask for a refund for the missing frets?



Thats gorgeous...and fretless...how does she sound??


----------



## feraledge

gpbarnett said:


> Had Jeff Kiesel build me a V7, it only came with one fret! (the zero fret). Think I should ask for a refund for the missing frets?



Demo, please and thank you.


----------



## feraledge

Vader owners, with the smaller body and no headstock, will a Vader still fit on a 5 guitar rack like this?


----------



## russmuller

gpbarnett said:


> Had Jeff Kiesel build me a V7, it only came with one fret! (the zero fret). Think I should ask for a refund for the missing frets?



This guitar is really something special. The only fretless instrument I ever played was a bass, but Ron Thal and Tom Monda pull off some really cool stuff on Vigier Surfreters. I hope you post a video for us to hear it!


----------



## russmuller

feraledge said:


> Vader owners, with the smaller body and no headstock, will a Vader still fit on a 5 guitar rack like this?



I am also curious about this. I imagine it would, but I've been wrong about plenty of things.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

feraledge said:


> Vader owners, with the smaller body and no headstock, will a Vader still fit on a 5 guitar rack like this?



We have one and I just put my Vader in it and it fits. Not sure if there's some sort of standardized height for stands like that, but it fit in the one we have. (pretty sure it's a slightly larger (7 guitar) version of the one pictured.)


----------



## gpbarnett

chewpac said:


> Thats gorgeous...and fretless...how does she sound??



Sounds great, the Hard as Nails finish gives a tone closer to a metal board than a wood board.

Working on recording some demos to post to Soundcloud.


----------



## rifftrauma

The first 8 Vaders from the Wired Guitarist run shipped out of Friday. Expect to see quite a few of this coming in the next few weeks.


----------



## Guamskyy

Less than a month from my quoted ETA!


----------



## russmuller

rifftrauma said:


> The first 8 Vaders from the Wired Guitarist run shipped out of Friday. Expect to see quite a few of this coming in the next few weeks.



There's also a trio of them (a 6 and two 8's) available on the Guitars-In-Stock page, including that V8 in Grabber Blue.


----------



## Locrain

JDTLH9 said:


> I am sure you'd be able to drill the hardware to fit bigger if you were brave enough. I did that on my first Ibby 7 string so I could put a 70 gauge through the tuning peg. I haven't seen the hipshot hardware up close yet though. My V7 won't be here for another few weeks. I will let you know if this looks easy enough when I get it


Anybody ever figure this out? I would consider the Vader...but I need to put a 70 through it.


----------



## gunshow86de

feraledge said:


> Vader owners, with the smaller body and no headstock, will a Vader still fit on a 5 guitar rack like this?



My Carvin HH1 fit in mine (Proline 5 guitar stand). I believe the Vader's body is a bit bigger than the HH1. If so, you should be fine.


----------



## JDTLH9

I will check this for you tonight as I have my V7 now. Pretty sure I have a 70 gauge lying around too


----------



## Chokey Chicken

gunshow86de said:


> My Carvin HH1 fit in mine (Proline 5 guitar stand). I believe the Vader's body is a bit bigger than the HH1. If so, you should be fine.



That's actually pretty close to how my Vader looked in my stand.


----------



## JDTLH9

JDTLH9 said:


> I will check this for you tonight as I have my V7 now. Pretty sure I have a 70 gauge lying around too



The 70 fits in the 7th string slot easily. But, if I remember right, you wanted to fit in where the low E would be to get a drop G drone tuning on a V6? It would not fit unfortunately in the slot for the low E 
It does not appear like it would be easy to mod either. You would have to remove the headpiece and try and saw the slot without damaging the thread for the string lock :/


----------



## mbardu

My Vader is back 

New pickups. I couldn't gel with the Kiesel on this guitar while I love them on my DC600 . Way too sterile and harsh with the Hipshot/25"5 scale vs the much smoother output on the graphtech bridge/25" scale of the DC600.

So back to the tried and tested Carvin M22SD bridge / H22 neck. 
I don't know why those pickups are not more popular, they absolutely slay 






And a new matching back plate courtesy of the guys at Kiesel.






It's complete now


----------



## Locrain

JDTLH9 said:


> The 70 fits in the 7th string slot easily. But, if I remember right, you wanted to fit in where the low E would be to get a drop G drone tuning on a V6? It would not fit unfortunately in the slot for the low E
> It does not appear like it would be easy to mod either. You would have to remove the headpiece and try and saw the slot without damaging the thread for the string lock :/



Yes, that's right. 70 in the V6. Thanks for checking though man, I appreciate that!


----------



## nicktao

Hey mbardu, what color is that Vader? It looks like blue mist, but there's a different shade to that one. It looks gorgeous!


----------



## Spicypickles

unnhhhhhhhh!!!!


That blue one is dope.


----------



## russmuller

So I'm intrigued by this. I wouldn't have expected something like this, but Scott Jones is a career professional guitarist so I give some weight to his input. Can anyone confirm they've experienced this, or explain what exactly is going on?


----------



## Adam Of Angels

"Worth it for the quality of guitar it is, overall" - yeah, I'll pass if that's a feature. I figure there has to be a remedy of some sort, though.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Perhaps I'm deaf, but I've been wiggling my strings for the past minute or two and I can't get any sound out of it. Perhaps the zero fret on some guitars is just "rough" and causes scraping/inadvertent disturbance of the string? It's certainly not "slipping/sliding" down by the bridge. I don't notice any weird quirks in comparison to any of my other non-headless guitars other than it initially felt weird to hold my wrist so close to the butt of the guitar.


----------



## russmuller

I would assume this is just noise from the fretwire (zero fret or any other fret making contact) produced as the string rubs while bending.

I mean, even if the saddle was designed in such a way that would allow this kind of sliding and noise, I wouldn't expect to see the same thing with instruments that have other bridge saddles.

*shrug* This doesn't dissuade me from ordering my Vader, I just think it's really odd and the claims being made do not make sense to me. I'm inclined to believe there is a bit of personal perception involved here.


----------



## russmuller

The conversation continued with the conclusion that it's from the zero fret. That makes reasonable sense to me.


----------



## mbardu

nicktao said:


> Hey mbardu, what color is that Vader? It looks like blue mist, but there's a different shade to that one. It looks gorgeous!



Might have been the lighting - it's definitely blue mist metallic


----------



## cubix

I've explained this on the Strandberg threads. Because there is no "nut" on the Vaders the break point on the 0 fret is very hard causing pressure on the 0 fret. Also there is no nut to keep the string from moving more than it should on the 0 fret. That creates a tiny groove in the fret and every time you bend the string comes out and pops in the groove. That's the metallic sound. The way to avoid this is to have a nut (like on the Strandberg) just behing the 0 fret and just slightly lower than the 0 fret. The strings break on that nut and that relieves the pressure from the 0 fret (as the strings are supported by the nut). That being said I had to make a nut for my Boden OS because the stock one has such deep grooves that it doesn't do any support, only prevents too much side to side movement on the 0 fret.

That was also the problem on the HH1 models from Carvin, where if the strings were double ball (mounted further from the 0 fret = less brutal break angle of the string) there was no problem, however the popping began when you used normal strings (that are screwed down closer to the 0 fret).

On the Vaders however I don't see a fix for this issue.


----------



## RevelGTR

I just ordered this Grabber Blue Black Limba 6 from Jeff's Facebook page.


----------



## Guamskyy

Yeah I encountered the same problem on my OXC7 with string bending and such- you can sorta feel it & definitely hear it if your amp isn't quite loud. Just one of things a zero fret, no nut guitar has.


----------



## nicktao

Huh, I was seriously ready to order a V7 too. How bad is the ping?


----------



## Chokey Chicken

nicktao said:


> Huh, I was seriously ready to order a V7 too. How bad is the ping?



According to everyone else, it's something inherent on every guitar with no "real" nut. With that in mind, I don't notice anything on mine and I've been playing it nonstop since I got it. I've got stainless frets if that makes a difference.


----------



## Inceptic

cubix said:


> I've explained this on the Strandberg threads. Because there is no "nut" on the Vaders the break point on the 0 fret is very hard causing pressure on the 0 fret. Also there is no nut to keep the string from moving more than it should on the 0 fret. That creates a tiny groove in the fret and every time you bend the string comes out and pops in the groove. That's the metallic sound. The way to avoid this is to have a nut (like on the Strandberg) just behing the 0 fret and just slightly lower than the 0 fret. The strings break on that nut and that relieves the pressure from the 0 fret (as the strings are supported by the nut). That being said I had to make a nut for my Boden OS because the stock one has such deep grooves that it doesn't do any support, only prevents too much side to side movement on the 0 fret.
> 
> That was also the problem on the HH1 models from Carvin, where if the strings were double ball (mounted further from the 0 fret = less brutal break angle of the string) there was no problem, however the popping began when you used normal strings (that are screwed down closer to the 0 fret).
> 
> On the Vaders however I don't see a fix for this issue.



It's definitely a design flaw on the Carvin Vaders. Funny how people are trying to spin it, saying that it's something inherent to *all* headless or *all* zero-fret guitars.


----------



## russmuller

Inceptic said:


> It's definitely a design flaw on the Carvin Vaders. Funny how people are trying to spin it, saying that it's something inherent to *all* headless or *all* zero-fret guitars.



Well how is it unique to the Vader as opposed to other zero-fret guitars? Have you had a chance to experience it and compare it to other headless and zero fret guitars?


----------



## russmuller

I just pulled the trigger on my V7 today. I'm not sure, but I may have been the first person to order a Kiesel with no knobs at all.


----------



## Inceptic

russmuller said:


> Well how is it unique to the Vader as opposed to other zero-fret guitars? Have you had a chance to experience it and compare it to other headless and zero fret guitars?



I've yet to experience it in person, but from my research, Strandberg and Vigier have had this issue in the past with their guitars, and have taken measures to mitigate it.


----------



## russmuller

Inceptic said:


> I've yet to experience it in person, but from my research, Strandberg and Vigier have had this issue in the past with their guitars, and have taken measures to mitigate it.



Well now I'm gonna have to do some research myself to see how they've tried to address it. As someone who wants to build guitars, this is relevant to my interests. I'm sure it'll be a while before I wear down the SS zero fret on my Vader enough to experience this, but I'll be intrigued if/when I do.

What I find puzzling is that people are experiencing it on guitars that I would imagine are too new to have such problems (translation: other people play and practice WAY more than I do, apparently). It makes me wonder if there's something more to it.


----------



## cubix

Vibrations work very quick my friend. You would be surprised how quickly a groove is forming in a fret from constant pressure and vibrations.


----------



## ferret

Mine picked up grooves and noticeable "pinging" within 4 weeks. I should note that I suspect I had less than 15 hours of play on it at that point, I don't practice a whole lot and have a couple of Carvins/Kiesels. I consider it a design flaw due to rushing the model out the door, the same as how they announced the Vader would accept double-ball end strings, without testing their custom redesigned end cap before hand. In all my correspondence with them, they haven't figured out any way to solve it, again in my opinion, due to their custom end cap.

Cubix seems to have a good grip on whats happening here. I'm wondering if you could simply put very small grooveless nut behind the Vader's zero fret and let string pressure hold it in. Would that reduce the wear? Or would it be too prone to shifting?


----------



## rifftrauma

ferret said:


> Mine picked up grooves and noticeable "pinging" within 4 weeks. I should note that I suspect I had less than 15 hours of play on it at that point, I don't practice a whole lot and have a couple of Carvins/Kiesels. I consider it a design flaw due to rushing the model out the door, the same as how they announced the Vader would accept double-ball end strings, without testing their custom redesigned end cap before hand. In all my correspondence with them, they haven't figured out any way to solve it, again in my opinion, due to their custom end cap.
> 
> Cubix seems to have a good grip on whats happening here. I'm wondering if you could simply put very small grooveless nut behind the Vader's zero fret and let string pressure hold it in. Would that reduce the wear? Or would it be too prone to shifting?



Does your Vader have stainless steel frets? I'm curious as to if this is Carvin's band-aid on the problem until they update the design (if at all)? Does the groove still appear this quickly even with SS frets?


----------



## ferret

I have stainless steel.


----------



## cubix

ferret said:


> Mine picked up grooves and noticeable "pinging" within 4 weeks. I should note that I suspect I had less than 15 hours of play on it at that point, I don't practice a whole lot and have a couple of Carvins/Kiesels. I consider it a design flaw due to rushing the model out the door, the same as how they announced the Vader would accept double-ball end strings, without testing their custom redesigned end cap before hand. In all my correspondence with them, they haven't figured out any way to solve it, again in my opinion, due to their custom end cap.
> 
> Cubix seems to have a good grip on whats happening here. I'm wondering if you could simply put very small grooveless nut behind the Vader's zero fret and let string pressure hold it in. Would that reduce the wear? Or would it be too prone to shifting?



Unless you glue it in place I think it would shift upon bending the wound strings (more force). Factory fix would be pretty easy I think - mill a small groove in front of the 0 fret and put a nut there. The fact that it's not fanned fret makes it easier as it will accept a standard nut (unlike a Boden 7 for example).


----------



## russmuller

ferret said:


> Mine picked up grooves and noticeable "pinging" within 4 weeks. I should note that I suspect I had less than 15 hours of play on it at that point, I don't practice a whole lot and have a couple of Carvins/Kiesels.


Wow! I am surprised, but I agree with what Cubix said about constant pressure and vibration.



ferret said:


> I consider it a design flaw due to rushing the model out the door, the same as how they announced the Vader would accept double-ball end strings, without testing their custom redesigned end cap before hand. In all my correspondence with them, they haven't figured out any way to solve it, again in my opinion, due to their custom end cap.


That makes sense to me. They were doing a big push to get that model ready in time for NAMM, plus all the stuff going on with the Kiesel Guitars/Carvin Audio split. With all that going on, and last minute adjustments to the hardware, it doesn't surprise me that not everything came out flawless.



ferret said:


> Cubix seems to have a good grip on whats happening here. I'm wondering if you could simply put very small grooveless nut behind the Vader's zero fret and let string pressure hold it in. Would that reduce the wear? Or would it be too prone to shifting?


That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Anything that can act as a shelf to reduce the break angle and pressure over the zero fret would help.

I was wondering if installing a second zero fret behind the first might be a viable solution; let one take the brunt of the wear. Then I realized what a nightmare it would be to level and crown stainless steel frets that are only a few mm from slot to slot.  Not a good idea.


----------



## MetalThrasher

You guys have any pics of this grooving? I hope this can be fixed as I have a V7 coming in soon that I ordered for the Vader run back in June.


----------



## rifftrauma

ferret said:


> I have stainless steel.



This makes me sad


----------



## nicktao

^ Same. I was getting all hyped up and speccing mine out on the site.


----------



## russmuller

I wonder if some lubricant would help?


----------



## rifftrauma

More information back as far as 2012 on the Carvin site, this is in regards to the HH model.

CarvinGuitars.com BBS :: View topic - HH Zero fret issue-


----------



## JSanta

The pinging was something immediately noticeable when I got my Vader, but it was only when I was doing bends (which is often). Not the reason I sent it back, but it is something a potential customer should be aware of.

That being said, when used for something like jazz, the lithium pickups sounded great and I didn't have any issues with the strings pinging.


----------



## nicktao

Which one did you send back?


----------



## cubix

A solution for any 0 fret guitar owner is a diamond crowning file, some sandpaper and steel polish. It will fix the issues but doing this every 15 hours of playing... I expect to do this maybe once a year on my Boden as this wear will happen sooner or later, just shouldn't happen so fast IMO.


----------



## takotakumi

daaamn. did not know about this issue at all until reading this today. Got into the vader run grom GP and should be getting mine in 1-2 weeks. So I should start noticing this after like a month if I play at least 2 hours per day?


----------



## nicktao

Alright, who here just picked up that grabber blue V8?


----------



## Quitty

Vigier still has zero-fret issues, and so does everybody else. 
You can modify the headpiece to lessen the break angle to try and minimize the stress over the fret, but evidently, that will not fix it entirely.

My Vader should be in around late September, so this is a concern of mine as well.
If i'm not mistaken, the Vaders have a gap between the zero fret and headpiece where i could fit a makeshift nut to minimize the break angle.
I was thinking of stiff rubber - it will 'groove' itself when the string puts pressure on it.


----------



## cubix

Vigier has the 0 fret issues because the nut seems to have the same problem as the nut on the Strandberg OS models. The grooves are too deep so it doesn't do anything to hold the string up, only prevents excessive movement to the sides. I made a new nut for my OS and addressed this issue, as far as I know Ola is already working on a solution for the OS line with 3D Printed nuts.


----------



## Ian King

WSchaferJR said:


> I just ordered this Grabber Blue Black Limba 6 from Jeff's Facebook page.



I really like that Mclaren yellow


----------



## russmuller

Ian King said:


> I really like that Mclaren yellow



Yeah, the McLaren V7 they have on the GIS page currently is hot! 






If that bad boy was 27" with an oiled neck, I might have bought that instead of ordering my custom.


----------



## gimmiedataxe

^ Same, 27 should be the gis standard for 7/8s.


----------



## ramses

Just for the record, as many headless brands have been mentioned ... I own two Boden's. The washburn-made Boden 8 has never had this issue, and it is a year and a half old, which is what I would expect from stainless-steel frets. 

My Boden 7 did develop the issue at the first string, because it didn't have stainless-steel frets. However, it happened after a couple of months of constant playing. The important thing is that it was barely noticeable, it did not affect my playing, and you could not hear it through your amplifier.

Now the issue is gone from the Boden 7, because it was re-fretted with stainless-steel frets.

In other words ... I don't think you should worry, specially if your headless guitar has stainless steel frets.


----------



## technomancer

russmuller said:


> Yeah, the McLaren V7 they have on the GIS page currently is hot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that bad boy was 27" with an oiled neck, I might have bought that instead of ordering my custom.



I'm fine with the scale length I just don't need another mahogany 7 and HATE the diamond inlays  Actually I would probably even deal with the inlays if it was maple / ash or maple / alder neck and body


----------



## Ian King

technomancer said:


> I'm fine with the scale length I just don't need another mahogany 7 and HATE the diamond inlays  Actually I would probably even deal with the inlays if it was maple / ash or maple / alder neck and body



I don't think the inlays are that bad...  I do prefer a blank board, but hey that's why they let you pick your options. I think I may order a McLaren yellow 6 string soon


----------



## technomancer

Ian King said:


> I don't think the inlays are that bad...  I do prefer a blank board, but hey that's why they let you pick your options. I think I may order a McLaren yellow 6 string soon



Like most things guitar related, it's personal preference. Diamond inlays just scream crappy cheap B.C. Rich or Mexican built ripoff Rico Jr. to me 

Can't stand them or the Carvin Signature sperm inlays.


----------



## mphsc

^ I hated the diamonds as well but I gave them a try, abalone in a nice piece of birds-eye maple, doesn't look half bad.


----------



## RevelGTR

Is anyone else's Kiesel logo slightly crooked? Mine doesn't run perfectly parallel to the neck. We're talking very slight here, but noticeable.


----------



## spudmunkey

Is the "L" slightly further away from the neck than the "K"? If so, it might be installed to be perpendicular to the some straight line, like maybe the bridge, or the center line of the neck, rather than the neck (which tapers)


----------



## RevelGTR

It tapers the opposite way, with the L leaning in toward the neck. Mine also has a knot in the fretboard near the zero fret. I spoke with Chris and he said we could get a rebuild rolling. 
The Vader really is the most comfortable guitar I've ever played, so I'll definitely be getting a rebuild.


----------



## Guamskyy

My guitar comes in next Tuesday- I can't wait!! They finished it up days ahead schedule too!


----------



## russmuller

Guamskyy said:


> My guitar comes in next Tuesday- I can't wait!! They finished it up days ahead schedule too!



I'm hoping that trend continues with mine! I'd love it if my Vader arrived before the 8 week mark. I'm going on a road trip and I'd love to have it with me.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Chokey Chicken said:


> We have one and I just put my Vader in it and it fits. Not sure if there's some sort of standardized height for stands like that, but it fit in the one we have. (pretty sure it's a slightly larger (7 guitar) version of the one pictured.)



I still prefer this one as it protects the guitars from side traffic as well, for about the same price, ie: $84.95 USD.
Real Tweed 6 Guitar Folding Case- DELUXE version- Folds to briefcase!


----------



## big_aug

For those of you that own both a Vader and a Boden, which is more comfortable? The Vader strikes me as nothing more than a double cutaway guitar without a headstock. The Boden seems to me to be fully designed for comfort. Would you guys agree?


----------



## cubix

That is true but not all people will find the Boden comfortable, with the Endurneck and all. I find it amazingly comfortable so if you can try one by all means do.


----------



## bloc

I played my friend's CL7 and I was kinda disappointed by the upper fret access. It isn't as great as I thought it would be. The heel is pretty huge, no?


----------



## BouhZik

I was gasing so hard lately, it was "almost" specced, I sold some gear... The zero fret issue cooled me down. It's definitely not something I want to deal with after 15/20h of playing on any guitar, and we're talking about an 1k+ guitar.
bummer!


----------



## cubix

bloc said:


> I played my friend's CL7 and I was kinda disappointed by the upper fret access. It isn't as great as I thought it would be. The heel is pretty huge, no?



Don't know about that, doesn't bother me at all but I'm used to playing a Les Paul so I have no problem with that heel. It's definately not a neck through of course


----------



## Guamskyy

Haven't gotten around to a NGD post yet, but here's a playthrough of one of my songs with my new V7!


----------



## shadowlife

^^
That was enjoyable, and the guitar sounds great!


----------



## Quitty

I mirror-imaged the screen and now i concur - great vid!


----------



## itsallinmyh3ad

Not a 7, but here's my Vader 6 from the Wired Guitarist Group Run. Loving this beast.


----------



## russmuller

3 weeks into my build. Antsy as hell. Money is tight and I'd like to sell my DC7X, but I don't want to let that go until my Vader arrives and I can confirm I want to keep it. I've seen enough people get one and then trade it shortly after that I'm hesitant to assume I'll love it enough to replace my DC7X.


----------



## big_aug

russmuller said:


> 3 weeks into my build. Antsy as hell. Money is tight and I'd like to sell my DC7X, but I don't want to let that go until my Vader arrives and I can confirm I want to keep it. I've seen enough people get one and then trade it shortly after that I'm hesitant to assume I'll love it enough to replace my DC7X.



I've seen like only one or two Vaders for sale/trade in the last few months on the forum. Wish there were more lol


----------



## Señor Voorhees

russmuller said:


> 3 weeks into my build. Antsy as hell. Money is tight and I'd like to sell my DC7X, but I don't want to let that go until my Vader arrives and I can confirm I want to keep it. I've seen enough people get one and then trade it shortly after that I'm hesitant to assume I'll love it enough to replace my DC7X.



People largely seem to be keeping them. I saw a few, and a few of those were selling to fund re-builds becsuse gearheads are a fickle bunch. My roommate has one, and I play it regularly. So long as you're not one of the flippers around here who buys and sells frequently, I'm gonna guess you'll be happy with it.


----------



## spudmunkey

Kiesel just released their first T-shirt&#8230; And I got to say&#8230; It looks pretty badass. It's a fantastic looking design, and features one of the best looking Vader guitars in my opinion, and actually the only California burst that I like.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/KM1-M


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, the design on that shirt is subtle and understated.  I don't want to hate, but it looks too add Hardy-esque for me. 

But what I think would be cool is if they had a t-shirt that would only be packaged with Vaders. Or maybe any Kiesel model. Then if you saw someone wearing if you'd know they had one at home. I guess someone isn't going to buy a t shirt if they don't own a Kiesel, but still.


----------



## olejason

lol That shirt


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Any updates on the zero fret issue? What's the problem exactly, is it just acoustic buzzing, or can you hear it amplified? Does it occur with SS frets?


----------



## MFB

itsallinmyh3ad said:


> Not a 7, but here's my Vader 6 from the Wired Guitarist Group Run. Loving this beast.



You magnificent S.O.B.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Any updates on the zero fret issue? What's the problem exactly, is it just acoustic buzzing, or can you hear it amplified? Does it occur with SS frets?



Any updates? Did you guys get in touch w/ Carvin/Kiesel regarding this problem? I really want a new 8-string and I'd get a V8 in a sec if it were not for this problem.


----------



## russmuller

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Any updates? Did you guys get in touch w/ Carvin/Kiesel regarding this problem? I really want a new 8-string and I'd get a V8 in a sec if it were not for this problem.



The problem is that some customers report that the zero fret develops tiny grooves from the constant pressure and vibration of the strings. The result is that, when bending, the string pops out of that micro-groove and it produces a small metallic "ping" kind of noise. The consensus seems to be that it's barely audible (if at all) through through the amp. Some people say it's an issue for all guitars with zero frets (to a greater or lesser extent depending on the break angle of the strings over the zero fret). It's been reported with both nickel-silver and SS fretwire, and reported to develop within even the first few weeks of use.

It seems like a lot of discussion about something that, by most accounts, does not really affect the tone or playability of the instrument. Additionally, any time I've seen someone complain about it to Kiesel on Facebook, they always respond quickly and sound accommodating. I have no idea what their follow-through is like or how they address those situations, but I don't see many unhappy customers so I assume they're able to adequately resolve things.

I've got a V7 on the way to me (any day now, I hope) with SS frets. I anticipate that I'll encounter this issue at some point, but I really don't expect it to be a problem (let alone a deal-breaker).


----------



## nicktao

So after getting a DC800, I'm pretty sure I'm getting a V7 or V8. One thing that's stopping me is that apparently you need a top to have a clear natural body like on Francesco's Racing Orange V8. Anyone know the reason for that?


----------



## ASoC

nicktao said:


> So after getting a DC800, I'm pretty sure I'm getting a V7 or V8. One thing that's stopping me is that apparently you need a top to have a clear natural body like on Francesco's Racing Orange V8. Anyone know the reason for that?



The Carvin/Kiesel paint shop uses the glue line of the top wood as a guide when masking off the body. If you don't want the top painted, you don't need a top wood


----------



## nicktao

But can't they just tape the body off without a top? I'd like a painted top and clear body.
I don't know anything about paint so it's probably lost on me, but it just doesn't make sense that they require a top for a clear body when they seem to offer a black body no problem on the same config.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

nicktao said:


> But can't they just tape the body off without a top? I'd like a painted top and clear body.
> I don't know anything about paint so it's probably lost on me, but it just doesn't make sense that they require a top for a clear body when they seem to offer a black body no problem on the same config.



Call and ask, the builder can be a little "goofy" with some options. 

Really, the builder is most ideal for folks to get a quote to see what they'd be looking at before calling in the order and not to do 100% of the work.


----------



## nicktao

Thanks, will do. I'm planning on getting it settled tonight, so I'll let you guys know.


----------



## mnemonic

I think I read somewhere that jeff said the painters need a line to follow (which would be the line between the top and the body) to paint the top a separate color. Now that I think about it, it may have been in one of those Q&A videos he did. 

I thought it was kind of a cop-out excuse, myself, how hard is it to tape off a line?


----------



## russmuller

mnemonic said:


> I think I read somewhere that jeff said the painters need a line to follow (which would be the line between the top and the body) to paint the top a separate color. Now that I think about it, it may have been in one of those Q&A videos he did.
> 
> I thought it was kind of a cop-out excuse, myself, how hard is it to tape off a line?



On a 3D surface with compound curves? Pretty tough to get perfect, I'd imagine.


----------



## BouhZik

Few weeks ago I emailed them to ask if I need a top Wood for a two-color Vader, (kiesel orange back and neck, jet black for the "top"). in short the answer was "yes you need a top Wood". I guess its the same thing for natural back and different finish on top. 
Also no orange inlays and no plan for it at that moment.


----------



## nicktao

Check it guys!
"The option you are looking for is RNC ($50) which makes the sides and back clear. The color will only remain on the top wood only unless you also select the BBEB option which will make the color only be on the very top of the guitar."


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

I'm currently going through Vader withdraw. I took my all Koa V7 to my not-so-local guitar store to get an M7 installed and setup in G Standard tuning. I have seven other guitars and I can't get into playing any of them. Doesn't matter how nice they are or even having M8s in one of them, they just don't give me the tones I like. It's going to make waiting for its triumphant return much harder. However I have learned that I don't need seven other guitars. So I'll get to make some extra cash to put back in the bank account.... or get another Koa 7 

Does anybody else have that ONE guitar that you just can't live without?


----------



## bloc

Hopefully the guitar tech ....s up your V7 and you don't feel that way anymore


----------



## Rev2010

This is why it's good to be able to do these things yourself  Maybe take a break from playing and pickup a good book on guitar tech/repair or watch some good YouTube videos. Btw, it's "withdrawal" 


Rev.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Withdraw | Definition of withdraw by Merriam-Webster

Withdrawal | Definition of withdrawal by Merriam-Webster

Both are correct actually 



Rev2010 said:


> This is why it's good to be able to do these things yourself  Maybe take a break from playing and pickup a good book on guitar tech/repair or watch some good YouTube videos. Btw, it's "withdrawal"
> 
> 
> Rev.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

bloc said:


> Hopefully the guitar tech ....s up your V7 and you don't feel that way anymore



Who pissed in your Corn Flakes?


----------



## ThePIGI King

IChuckFinleyI said:


> Who pissed in your Corn Flakes?



I didn't read that as him being mean/offensive. I read it more over as he was trying to say he hopes that when you get it back you are able to play your Vader and still play your others. Maybe I just take things differently though...


----------



## narad

IChuckFinleyI said:


> Withdraw | Definition of withdraw by Merriam-Webster
> 
> Withdrawal | Definition of withdrawal by Merriam-Webster
> 
> Both are correct actually



Not really.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

IChuckFinleyI said:


> Withdraw | Definition of withdraw by Merriam-Webster
> 
> Withdrawal | Definition of withdrawal by Merriam-Webster
> 
> Both are correct actually



Withdrawls are what you go through when you stop using drugs. For exampke, headaches are a common withdrawal symptom when you're hooked on caffiene and go without it for a while. That is the context of this post. 

When getting off crack, you don't go through withdraws, but withdrawals.


----------



## bloc

What in God's creation...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

That's pretty old.  He made it back in July. 

I think it was called the "Murica."


----------



## olejason

"What's up guys Jeff Kiesel here with Kiesel Guitars Carvin Guitars with an awesome Kiesel Guitars Vader triple neck piece of crap. #Kiesel #Carvin #Guys #Vader #EdHardy"

But seriously that thing is utterly horrendous. The Vader is a cool design. They should just ban Jeff Kiesel from picking specs for anything.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

doublepost


----------



## mnemonic

hahaha, thats hilarious. 

Kinda pointless though, since an 8 string already contains a 7 string and a 6 string.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

bloc said:


> What in God's creation...



Yup, that thing was made for the fourth of July. (Red white and blue.) I think it's great in all the worst possible ways. Fits the theme of our country pretty well. Excessive and unnecessary. Done only because it could be, not because it should be. Like the chicken sandwich that used two pieces of chicken for buns. God bless America!


----------



## fusion1

Curt said:


> Yeah, I was about to say, Vader cabs did it.. haha



That\s what I was expecting a jhoint venture between Carvin and Vader cabs. At least that was what I was hoping for. So there is a separate company that makes guitars also called Vader? Kind of like Framus where tyhere are 2 separate companies and one makes guitars and the other makes amps but they are not related. STRANGE!!!!


----------



## Quitty

Just got my Vader.






Setup was perfect, despite the fact that it just sat at Carvin's for a month before shipping to NY, and from NY here. Playability is amazing, and i'm coming over from a DC-727.
It's also silly small. Feels like everything's shifted sideways from where i expect it to be. Will take a little getting used to. 27" is the bees knees.
The case is phenomenal and the streaking on the ebony is stunning. It actually looks much better in person than it does in the pics.

Will post an NGD with a more comprehensive review and some clips tomorrow.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

So, my guitar finally started doing the metallic "ping" at the zero fret. I likely never noticed it before because it only really happens when I bend the high plain strings excessively at the first 2-3 frets.

Also, I'm surprised anyone was worked up about it at all. It can't be heard through the amp at all, and it certainly doesn't seem intrusive to me. Just figured I'd let folks know that I finally noticed it.


----------



## yellowv

I finally got one.


----------



## technomancer

bloc said:


> What in God's creation...



That is the perfect summation of Kiesel in guitar form


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Chokey Chicken said:


> So, my guitar finally started doing the metallic "ping" at the zero fret. I likely never noticed it before because it only really happens when I bend the high plain strings excessively at the first 2-3 frets.
> 
> Also, I'm surprised anyone was worked up about it at all. It can't be heard through the amp at all, and it certainly doesn't seem intrusive to me. Just figured I'd let folks know that I finally noticed it.




I think folks are more concerned about the issue in the long term, seeing as Carvin doesn't have a national dealer/repair network to take care of it.


----------



## ferret

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think folks are more concerned about the issue in the long term, seeing as Carvin doesn't have a national dealer/repair network to take care of it.



As well as degree of the issue being quite variable. Some people have had it happen on bends even towards the 9th fret and higher, and others have had it appear in the first few hours of play.

If it took a couple of months to appear and only happens on 2-3 frets for you, yeah, it'll seem pretty minor. But if it happened in the first week and was 7-9 frets you feel a little different on the topic.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think folks are more concerned about the issue in the long term, seeing as Carvin doesn't have a national dealer/repair network to take care of it.



I can see that. I can also see why people wouldn't appreciate issues so soon on a 1k+ guitar. Personally though, its a non issue for me provided the sound stays out of the amplified sound. (Which ties into the "long term" thing you mentioned.)

Edited for clarity.


----------



## yellowv

Just out of curiosity do the Vaders typically come with a tool kit or anything? All mine had with it was a single sheet in the case on caring for the guitar.


----------



## ferret

There should be a set of hex wenches in the front pocket.


----------



## Quitty

yellowv said:


> Just out of curiosity do the Vaders typically come with a tool kit or anything? All mine had with it was a single sheet in the case on caring for the guitar.


I actually emailed them about it, as my 727 came with certificates and a spec-sheet.

Everything is in Kiesel/Carvin's computers. No papers other than the one you received and the aforementioned Allen wrenches (4 of them, IIRC).


----------



## yellowv

I didn't get any hex keys, but I got mine second hand. Just wondering. Doesn't matter as I have plenty of them.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I know its not a 7 string, but there are Vader basses incoming. Info on the FB Jeff Kiesel page



> Jeff Kiesel "I gave my guys the go ahead to post it on the Kiesel Guitars Carvin Guitars page, so there is more info. Yes the Vader Bass is here 4/5/6 string in a 34" scale standard and check this out optional short 30" scale for them"


----------



## bloc

Ugh, a Vader bass? That just doesn't seem right imo


----------



## ThePIGI King

I'm rather happy about this. I like the Vader, and I like the headless concept, once I can afford one I'll decide if I like them or not, but I think a Vader bass would be awesome. It's expanding upon the headless market, what's not to like? If you don't like it, don't buy it, but why complain about it?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

SnowfaLL said:


> I know its not a 7 string, but there are Vader basses incoming. Info on the FB Jeff Kiesel page



I just saw the photo, the Vader bass has no zero fret!!! Just a regular nut fitted to the headless system. Is this a new design to fix the zero fret buzz/ping issue? Will it be available on the Vader guitars as well?


----------



## SnowfaLL

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I just saw the photo, the Vader bass has no zero fret!!! Just a regular nut fitted to the headless system. Is this a new design to fix the zero fret buzz issue? Will it be available on the Vader guitars as well?



Is there often zero frets on other basses? Maybe it just doesnt work well on basses. Either way, I'm not having any issues with my zero fret V7, other than the "pinging" sound every once in awhile.. The problem is greatly overstated.


----------



## ferret

Bass thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ba...sel-carvin-vader-bass-30-scale-available.html


----------



## olejason

SnowfaLL said:


> Is there often zero frets on other basses? Maybe it just doesnt work well on basses. Either way, I'm not having any issues with my zero fret V7, other than the "pinging" sound every once in awhile.. The problem is greatly overstated.



Zero frets are pretty common on basses, I'm not sure why they'd do the bass differently. Also, doesn't the ping usually manifest when bending strings? Most bassists don't bend very much. On top of that, I imagine the bass strings would be too thick to work a groove into the zero fret in the first place.

Interesting decision.


----------



## Fathand

SnowfaLL said:


> I know its not a 7 string, but there are Vader basses incoming. Info on the FB Jeff Kiesel page



30" option? Headless bass?


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Hopefully there will be an option for a 30" 6 string baritone. Maybe some option 50 or something. Would be awesome.


----------



## ferret

In response to a question on Facebook about Vader basses having a normal nut, and would Vader guitars also have this soon, Chris Hong posted:



> We will address that shortly. I don't know when but I think Jeff's planning on making a video real soon, probably in the next day or two. Basically we will offer an inexpensive retrofit for customers who already have a Vader guitar. Current orders are already getting them but anything ordered before October will be $50 to retrofit. Because there was a fret pressed into the board there may be some minor tang marks but the zero fret ping will be gone. One downside to this is that any time you change string gauges you will have to get the nut filed if you decide to go thicker. Jeff will go more into detail in his video on the process



This isn't the first time I've heard this "if you changes gauges you'll have to get the nut filed" from them. Never understood how that was suppose to be an issue when almost every other model they make has a nut, as do like, 99% of the market.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

My guess is simply that one of the few real benefits to a zero fret was to not have to file it out if you switch gauges. Getting rid of the zero fret removes that benefit, and it seems they're just letting folks know what the compromises they'll have to make are. I've never had a problem with standard nuts and never saw much use in the zero fret, so I'm all for it, but for some it's worth knowing the pros/cons of swapping or staying with what they have.


----------



## mgr475

ferret said:


> In response to a question on Facebook about Vader basses having a normal nut, and would Vader guitars also have this soon, Chris Hong posted:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't the first time I've heard this "if you changes gauges you'll have to get the nut filed" from them. Never understood how that was suppose to be an issue when almost every other model they make has a nut, as do like, 99% of the market.



Can't believe they're going to charge existing customers for this...


----------



## Spectivum

What a timing, I was just messaging them about the possibility before seeing this.


----------



## olejason

So will Vader guitars have the zero fret plus a nut? Or just the nut?


----------



## Spectivum

From customer service:
'and as for your 2nd issue.. we now make them with an actual nut and not with a zero fret.'

See the pictures of the new Vader bass on the website, the nut is right at the string locks.


----------



## ferret

Here's the latest Vaders from the "guitars in stock", one of each, V6, V7, V8. Looks like they all have a nut:

















And also this, someone received one today:


----------



## spudmunkey

mgr475 said:


> Can't believe they're going to charge existing customers for this...



I mean, I can sort of see why someone might think it should be covered, but...it's not a manufacturing defect. It's something inherent in the design of a zero-fret guitar...and not even just headless zero fret guitars. Just google "zero fret ping" and within the first 3 results, I found a thread from 2008 discussing the issue (long before Carvin offered their first zero-fret guitar (at least in the modern age of the company...)).

It may be an extremely unpopular opinion, but to me it's the same as someone being disappointed when finding out that they have to do periodic maintenance on a tung-oiled guitar neck...it's just something inherent in the design, and if you want it finished in satin clear poly afterwards instead, they'd charge you...but perhaps not if you were in your 10-day trial period.


----------



## SnowfaLL

And there are still people who are fine with the zero fret. I play mine every day almost since I received it on July 1st, and while I get the ping, it has no negative impact (cant be heard in the amp) and no wear on the fret itself so far. I don't plan on replacing it anytime soon with a regular nut. We'll see in years, but it'd be the same thing as ordering any Strandberg, but without the $4k pricetag.


----------



## mgr475

spudmunkey said:


> I mean, I can sort of see why someone might think it should be covered, but...it's not a manufacturing defect. It's something inherent in the design of a zero-fret guitar...and not even just headless zero fret guitars. Just google "zero fret ping" and within the first 3 results, I found a thread from 2008 discussing the issue (long before Carvin offered their first zero-fret guitar (at least in the modern age of the company...)).
> 
> It may be an extremely unpopular opinion, but to me it's the same as someone being disappointed when finding out that they have to do periodic maintenance on a tung-oiled guitar neck...it's just something inherent in the design, and if you want it finished in satin clear poly afterwards instead, they'd charge you...but perhaps not if you were in your 10-day trial period.



Fair point. I'm just annoyed because the issue showed up two weeks in and brought the honeymoon phase to a sudden end haha. Still love the guitar and will do the retrofit. The ping doesn't effect tone through the amp but I find it can make it hard to do smooth vibrato.


----------



## CudBucket

ferret said:


> Here's the latest Vaders from the "guitars in stock", one of each, V6, V7, V8. Looks like they all have a nut:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also this, someone received one today:



It looks like, not only are they using a nut now but they've shortened the distance between the nut and the head. I probably will leave mine as it is. I can make it ping if I want to, but under normal circumstances, it just doesn't happen. And when it does, I certainly don't hear come out of the amp. Basically a non-issue for me at the moment.

Dave


----------



## CudBucket




----------



## yellowv

I don't have the ping on my V6 at all. I do like the fact that I can change string gauges without worrying about a nut. I just placed an order for a V7 tonight before reading about the nut. Honestly I would probably prefer the zero fret, but I guess it's not a big deal either way.


----------



## spudmunkey

yellowv said:


> I don't have the ping on my V6 at all. I do like the fact that I can change string gauges without worrying about a nut. I just placed an order for a V7 tonight before reading about the nut. Honestly I would probably prefer the zero fret, but I guess it's not a big deal either way.



Since you have one and know what you are getting into, I wonder if they would still build one for ou with the zero fret.


----------



## yellowv

spudmunkey said:


> Since you have one and know what you are getting into, I wonder if they would still build one for ou with the zero fret.



I asked and they said yes. They are going to build mine with the zero fret. I just had to waive my 10 day trial which is fine bc I already know what I'm getting.


----------



## ramses

yellowv said:


> I asked and they said yes. They are going to build mine with the zero fret. I just had to waive my 10 trial which is fine bc I already know what I'm getting.



Zero frets should not have any issues assuming it is stainless steel.


----------



## yellowv

Actually I think many of the complaints were on guitars with SS frets. My V6 has EVO golds and this incoming one will as well.


----------



## Inceptic

I'm glad they dropped the zero-fret. If only the top would go all the way up instead of stopping short, these would be a no-brainer. Although I must say that a solid-color V6 is quite tempting.


----------



## russmuller

ramses said:


> Zero frets should not have any issues assuming it is stainless steel.



I originally thought that too. Unfortunately, mine was SS and had a groove under the high string by the time it got to me. The saddle on my high string was defective (in a way that would have not been apparent to anyone at Kiesel, so it's nothing against their QC) and caused my string to break within the first few minutes of playing. I performed my first string change and was surprised to see there was a visible tiny groove in the zero fret.

Chris Hong sent me a replacement saddle ASAP and that's right as rain now. The ping is not audible through the amp, but I can feel it more than anything. It sets off that instinctive "you're about to snap a string, prepare for pain!" reaction. I find it more unsettling to my vibe when playing than I imagined I would, so I'm on the fence about having the nut retrofitted on.


----------



## Jayd41

I have had my V6 since the beginning of August and have yet to hear this 'ping'. 
This guitar has seen the most play time of any of my guitars since I received it. 

I have the EVO frets so I wonder if that helps.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Jayd41 said:


> I have had my V6 since the beginning of August and have yet to hear this 'ping'.
> This guitar has seen the most play time of any of my guitars since I received it.
> 
> I have the EVO frets so I wonder if that helps.



I doubt it since it's caused by string pressure creating a groove in the metal and EVO is somewhere in hardness between SS and standard frets, and the SS frets (which are harder) have the issue. You might just not notice it yet, or your play style doesn't really call for it. Mine only really happens when I bend pretty significantly within the first few frets, and I have to really try a bit further up the neck. It doesn't really occur during normal play though.


----------



## mgr475

Sent my Vader back yesterday for the retrofit. I'll post pictures when I get it back. Carvin did end up paying for all of it including shipping.


----------



## Alex6534

Question for you guys, I'm in the UK and considering getting a basic vader but curious how Kiesel's quality compares to a mayones setius. Obviously very different guitars but its build and construction quality that I'm interested in. I have two carving from pre 2013 so I know they play awesome but haven't tried any of the Kiesel range.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Kiesel is just rebranded Carvin essentially. Same staff and same machines and such. If you like Carvin's quality, Kiesel will be of no surprise to you.


----------



## Mattykoda

Got mine in today! Will do a NGD when I have a chance but I just wanted to get a picture up of the nut. It almost looks cracked but its just from them sanding the sides so they don't stick straight up. Mine was ordered the 29th of September and Chris tracked it down just to let me know if it had it and gave me the option prior to retrofit if it was pressed with the zero fret.


----------



## TylerE

Juicy! I was really lusting after a Vader for a long time, quenched only by pulling the trigger on a Strandberg. Really really love the look of the Zebrawood fretboard. 

In a perfect world Strandberg would partner with Carvin and you'd be able to buy a Boden with all the exotic woods, multitude of finish options, etc. Never happen though.

What color is that finish? Can't quite tell if it's a very light blue, a cream, or maybe like a seafoam green?


----------



## Mattykoda

Yeah the zebrawood is damn pretty and feels really nice under your fingers. It's a satin seafoam green finish, I'm a sucker for these in solid finishes plus I got a blue mist metallic dc7x on order to quench my thirst. Hopefully in this picture you can see the color a bit more in it and I threw in another one of the nut as well.


----------



## olejason

Anyone know if you need a top wood to get the top of the guitar painted?


----------



## Mattykoda

olejason said:


> Anyone know if you need a top wood to get the top of the guitar painted?



Yes, then you can get the RNC which I believe is a $50 option to show the natural sides and back of the guitar like this


----------



## spudmunkey

Then, get the BBEB option if you don't want the sides of the top wood painted so that JUST the top surface is painted.

...which you still need a top for, for some reason.


----------



## Solodini

Mattykoda said:


> Got mine in today! Will do a NGD when I have a chance but I just wanted to get a picture up of the nut. It almost looks cracked but its just from them sanding the sides so they don't stick straight up. Mine was ordered the 29th of September and Chris tracked it down just to let me know if it had it and gave me the option prior to retrofit if it was pressed with the zero fret.


 

That thing is beautiful. I love the colour contrast!


----------



## Mattykoda

Thanks man! I was really torn between going with white or black pups but once I saw it I was glad I went with the black ones. It oddly reminds me of a mint ice cream cone too haha.


----------



## Guamskyy

So tempted to get another Vader... I'm absolutely floored by the sea foam/surf green and zebra wood fretboard, but I really want a Birdseye maple fretboard WITH luminlays, but they don't offer it. I bet if I gave them a call, pleaded with them, and told them I'm perfectly fine with it, they would ok it. Maybe I can even have them Kiesel treat the borders of the fretboard black where the side dots would go so it would give the illusion of black binding and the luminlays would stand out better.

Oh no, I just gave myself a good and bad idea...


----------



## Chuck

Probably gonna order one of these in a couple weeks.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

Guamskyy said:


> So tempted to get another Vader... I'm absolutely floored by the sea foam/surf green and zebra wood fretboard, but I really want a Birdseye maple fretboard WITH luminlays, but they don't offer it. I bet if I gave them a call, pleaded with them, and told them I'm perfectly fine with it, they would ok it. Maybe I can even have them Kiesel treat the borders of the fretboard black where the side dots would go so it would give the illusion of black binding and the luminlays would stand out better.
> 
> Oh no, I just gave myself a good and bad idea...



They have no problem doing luminlays on maple boards, they are just gonna make sure you know that the dots may be hard to see. I almost got them on my A7 but Chris H talked me out of it


----------



## Guamskyy

insaneshawnlane said:


> They have no problem doing luminlays on maple boards, they are just gonna make sure you know that the dots may be hard to see. I almost got them on my A7 but Chris H talked me out of it



Yeah, my current V7 has a flame maple board with luminlays and Chris did make sure to make me aware they are a little hard to see. Honestly they aren't super difficult to spot, so they don't bother me at all.


----------



## Hendog

These really are my favorite new guitar design. I will have to play one at some point to have a real opinion but they look great!


----------



## hardvalve

I love these. Any chance of the multi scale will trickle down here? I would buy a 27-26/25.5 6 string Vader in a second. If not I will buy the bolt on with a headstock. Super excited they are doing a multi scale. Finally a major manufacturer is building one.


----------



## spudmunkey

You mean besides Ibanez?


----------



## hardvalve

spudmunkey said:


> You mean besides Ibanez?



They don't make a headless, and not a headless multi scale. Ibanez makes some great stuff for sure. I have not played their multi-scale yet.


----------



## ferret

hardvalve said:


> They don't make a headless, and not a headless multi scale. Ibanez makes some great stuff for sure. I have not played their multi-scale yet.



So far, Kiesel doesn't make a headless multi scale either. That teaser has a headstock  Ibanez is already there.


----------



## yellowv

Yeah it remains to be seen if the Vader will be available in multiscale. I'm thinking not as the whole hipshot headless system and the current body shape would not be useable. I have a V7 about 2 weeks into its build time so I shot an email today to see what the availability of the multiscale option is going to be. 

Also I have luminlays on a BEM board. Call them. They will do it for you.


----------



## Guamskyy

yellowv said:


> Yeah it remains to be seen if the Vader will be available in multiscale. I'm thinking not as the whole hipshot headless system and the current body shape would not be useable. I have a V7 about 2 weeks into its build time so I shot an email today to see what the availability of the multiscale option is going to be.
> 
> Also I have luminlays on a BEM board. Call them. They will do it for you.



I called mine in last time and they did it no problem, it's just the luminlay option goes away on the builder and I usually like to make a mock sheet up before I call in before the actual order so I get everything I want/not forget what I want when on the phone.


----------



## Guamskyy

hardvalve said:


> I love these. Any chance of the multi scale will trickle down here? I would buy a 27-26/25.5 6 string Vader in a second. If not I will buy the bolt on with a headstock. Super excited they are doing a multi scale. Finally a major manufacturer is building one.



The Vaders would need a different bridge and I predict it would take a little time for them to do so. Referring to hipshot's website, I do not see a multi scale headless system, but it looks like XEN Stringed Instruments uses hipshot for their multi scale headless guitars, so it probably can be done at the right price. I remember when Jeff and Chris Hong were being very explicit about not having a multi scale for the Vader, so if anything, it may very well be a pride thing to not have the Vader multi scale so it looks like they were liars


----------



## Guamskyy

Update from Jeff, quoted off of his recent FB post:

"Multscale Update - The main reason I was hesitant about offering them was because most companies Multis are awkward feeling and they just don't feel right. And of course the awful active pickup only option was not going to be ok with me. I am not one to put something out just to make money, I need to believe in it. So after lots of testing, tweaks and changes over the past several months I am a believer in our Multi and am very happy (so much so, it has me playing it a lot and wanting to keep picking it up). I have done a few things different than any other company and the feel of our Multi is the most comfortable and it feels and sounds right.
Moving on to the important things and what you are care about:
Available: Tomorrow 6AM PST, no joke (all programming done)
I am doing something special for everyone that buys this week
Model: You will see soon
Strings and Fan: 6 = 25.5"-26.5" / 7 = 25.5" - 27.0"
Parallel Fret: 9th on both
Pickups: Angled Lithiums, will have more pickup models down the road to give you choices for tone (huge deal since you can't buy just any pickup angled.....)
Lefty: Yes, however no return (limited market, sorry guys)
Demo: Video Demo/Reviews launching this week from several sources
Other Questions
1. Will this be available on the Vader, I hope so - depends on you guys, if these sell really well then I will look into the tooling cost for the bridges (big money here, since no one makes what I want to use) however IF it did happen I don't see it happening anytime soon. I have said all along no plans for the Vader to be Multi because of the tooling cost for headless multi.
2. How about Basses, yes I plan on having a Multiscale bass if the guitar sales are good, doubtfully the Vader bass (just being honest)
3. How about an 8 string, depends on how the 6 and 7 sell. If they sell good I will get on it
4. Will I sell these necks and or fretboards as part - not now and maybe never....
Everyone, thank you for your patience - I hope you can understand that I must believe in something before I put my name on it. It's official I have the MultiFever...."

So basically if the multi-scale Aries' does well, Jeff will look into Vader multi-scales.


----------



## Guamskyy

Man I'm a sucker for those sea foam green and surf green finishes- I feel that it is the color I see the most, especially with the zebra wood fretboard. Currently saving funds for a Vader 6 in satin sea foam green and a flame maple board.


----------



## Qenk666

Hi guys! I browse this forum a lot, but I guess this is my first post.
My new Vader just made its way to Vienna an arrived safely on Monday.
I'm so stoked!!!! I thought I share some pics with you guys! great forum all around, glad to be here!

cell phone pics suck, I know....

Cheers!!


----------



## spudmunkey

Another Vader run! This time, they are all already made in 6 solid-colored configurations. See Jeff's Facebook, Instaram, or the official forum for details.


----------



## olejason

Some of them would look great without the giant goofy plastic blocks on the fretboard. I don't understand why he is so obsessed with putting gaudy junk on the fretboard.


----------



## StrmRidr

I wasn't a fan of the Vaders when I first saw them, but they have really grown on me to the point where I actually want one. If the Canadian Dollar could bounce back I'd place an order in a heartbeat.


----------



## yellowv

Some of the new run are cool. I agree the ones without the block inlays are better. He has one more that he is going to reveal tomorrow. I have my fingers crossed that it's not similar to the one I have on order or I'm going to be pissed. I'm very glad this run is nothing like the last one or I really wouldn't be happy.


----------



## Hollowway

Am I confused, or is the new run not much of a savings? I added it up in the builder online and it looks like it's only saving $50 or so. I think it's just the luminlays and the logo that are the only upgrades? And the BEM and inlays in those specific models.


----------



## yellowv

Yeah it's not a real big savings but your basically getting a few options at the base model cost. I have one being built right now that is a pretty basic build with a few options and these are a little cheaper than mine came out. Big thing is there will also be no wait.


----------



## technomancer

I think the other thing about the run is they are pre-built so no 8+ week wait


----------



## Hollowway

Ah, good point. Although, having been conditioned to wait years for a custom, 8 weeks is basically the same as tomorrow.  That being said, if there was a matte KRO with zebra FB (like francisco's) I'd have a hard time saying no!


----------



## yellowv

I'm guessing the last one will be red as these are Star Wars themed. I think I'm pretty safe as seafoam green doesn't have a damn thing to do with Star Wars. Lol


----------



## Hollowway

True. I'm thinking red black and white are obvious Star Wars colors, but idk if the green and yellow are. Maybe orange, for the BB8, or Gold for 3PO. But idk about that green and yellow. But watch the new Sith Lord show up in the film, with sea foam green skin. 

(Err, maybe Yoda is sea foamy?)


----------



## yellowv

Light Saber colors, sir.


----------



## technomancer

yellowv said:


> Light Saber colors, sir.



They need some purple for Mace Windu... just saying 

"This is your father's light saber... when you absolutely positively need to kill every last mother fvcker in the room accept no substitute."







Though yeah it will probably be red...


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I guess we could probably make a case for any color, really. Jawa brown, land cruiser copper, AT-AT gray, Leia bikini gold , etc.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I guess we could probably make a case for any color, really. Jawa brown, land cruiser copper, AT-AT gray, Leia bikini gold , etc.


----------



## Bdtunn

A brown wavy wood grain would make for a great chewy theme.


----------



## feraledge

Has anyone found out if offset dots are a call in option on Vaders yet?


----------



## yellowv

Well I was wrong. It's orange.


----------



## ferret

feraledge said:


> Has anyone found out if offset dots are a call in option on Vaders yet?



In the last week or so, Jeff has commented that offset dots is only for the AM models.


----------



## technomancer

Just a heads up somebody on one of the Facebook groups I'm on called about the run... apparently the 10 day return policy DOES NOT apply to these, so if you get a dud you're stuck. Screw that noise.


----------



## yellowv

Even without the 10 day they will stand behind it if you have an issue.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I'm not feeling the black blocks on the orange one. I'd like an orange one that is identical to Francisco's, so I think I'll just hold off for that. It's interesting to see these sell out, in terms of which ones go first.


----------



## Guamskyy

ferret said:


> In the last week or so, Jeff has commented that offset dots is only for the AM models.



Really? Well damn.


----------



## yellowv

He also said he wouldn't do multiscale. He recently posted a FB thread asking yay or nay on offset dots. I'm guessing the overwhelming Yays will make them available soon.


----------



## yellowv

Yeah I'm really not feeling any of them big time. My favorite is the yellow with the blank ebony board. They should have done ebony on the white one and left the blocks off the orange. Overall I prefer none of them to what I have being built so I'm good.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I'm holding out for a multiscale V8. What's that, Jeff said he wouldn't build them? Cool, that means they'll come out in about 6 months!


----------



## ledzep4eva

If they'd left the mismatching blue blocks off of the Pearl Blue's neck, I would've found it very difficult to resist placing an order.


----------



## technomancer

I've got an email in to Chris, depending on the answer I might get one if there are any left, but I'm really not a fan of satin finishes or blocks on modern designs like the Vader so it's doubtful.

Jeff seems to have the ability to spec things that I almost like, but always throws in one or two things that keep me from buying


----------



## yellowv

Just spec one out Steve. The one I got coming is only $100 more than these were and $50 of that is a wood backplate.


----------



## olejason

technomancer said:


> Jeff seems to have the ability to spec things that I almost like, but always throws in one or two things that keep me from buying



I like to call that little extra something the Jeff-Factor. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would buy a $30 Porterhouse and slather it with A1 sauce.


----------



## bloc

olejason said:


> I like to call that little extra something the Jeff-Factor. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would buy a $30 Porterhouse and slather it with A1 sauce.



Looooool perfect comment


----------



## yellowv

Just for ....s and giggles I spec'ed out the orange one. It comes out to 1434 for a 7 with the case. So basically a $135 savings and no wait. Pretty cool deal if that's what you want. I think that one has the most options as the zebrawood board and Evo frets are more expensive than SS frets and the other fretboard options.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I'm sure it's posted around here somewhere, but this is new to me: JBV6 KIESEL JASON BECKER VADER HEADLESS ELECTRIC GUITAR | CarvinGuitars.com

Looks pretty spiffy, IMO.


----------



## Speedy Fingers

Alright guys. I just placed my order for a V7 and am SOOOO excited! I only have one question - should I have opted for the thinner neck profile option? I played the V& with the standard neck at NAMM and it was great. I also tried my bandmate's DC727 and it's also just fine - maybe slightly thicker than I'd prefer.

What's the general consensus here?


----------



## ShredFever

Speedy Fingers said:


> Alright guys. I just placed my order for a V7 and am SOOOO excited! I only have one question - should I have opted for the thinner neck profile option? I played the V& with the standard neck at NAMM and it was great. I also tried my bandmate's DC727 and it's also just fine - maybe slightly thicker than I'd prefer.
> 
> What's the general consensus here?



I own two Vaders with the standard profile and one with the thinner. The standard is very comfortable, and feels very nice. The thinner is probably the one I reach for most (though I play the hell out of all three), it's more about the woods that makes it my favorite I think. If you liked it at NAMM, you should be fine. I grew up on Ibanez Wizard necks, so thinner is generally more to my liking, but I don't think the standard is too thick by any means.

What finish did you get on the neck? Of my three, that's really the thing I notice most when switching guitars. I have one gloss, one satin, and one tung oiled. I much prefer the feel of the satin and tung oil to the gloss, even though the gloss stays pretty slick as long as you wipe it down regularly.


----------



## Speedy Fingers

ShredFever said:


> I own two Vaders with the standard profile and one with the thinner. The standard is very comfortable, and feels very nice. The thinner is probably the one I reach for most (though I play the hell out of all three), it's more about the woods that makes it my favorite I think. If you liked it at NAMM, you should be fine. I grew up on Ibanez Wizard necks, so thinner is generally more to my liking, but I don't think the standard is too thick by any means.
> 
> What finish did you get on the neck? Of my three, that's really the thing I notice most when switching guitars. I have one gloss, one satin, and one tung oiled. I much prefer the feel of the satin and tung oil to the gloss, even though the gloss stays pretty slick as long as you wipe it down regularly.



Hey there - thanks for the response!

I opted for the blue mist finish in satin, with a painted satin back of neck. I love the look and feel and satin is slick enough for me. I have a lot of experience with Ibanez, Carvin, Parker, and Fender necks. Is there anything that you could compare the thinner neck profile to?


----------



## ShredFever

Speedy Fingers said:


> Hey there - thanks for the response!
> 
> I opted for the blue mist finish in satin, with a painted satin back of neck. I love the look and feel and satin is slick enough for me. I have a lot of experience with Ibanez, Carvin, Parker, and Fender necks. Is there anything that you could compare the thinner neck profile to?



It's kind of rough to compare to any other neck profile I've played. It's definitely _thin_, and I guess the closest comparison I could make would be maybe some of the thinner Jackson dinky profiles I've played, but with more of a very slim "C" shape for the shoulders, rather than having a more kind of "D" shaped profile that I associate with some Jacksons I've played.


----------



## oremus91

Just ordered my V8 when they had the free chambering/luminlay deals last week. My inspiration for the choices was mostly pale wood/winter so I have a clear/natural swamp ash back and a trans white flamed top. More details in my eventual NGD thread 2 months from now when everyone forgets about this post!


----------



## dhgrind

im just waiting on usps to deliver on the goods for mine. swamp ash with antique treatment. walnut/maple neck. ebony fretboard with streaking and 12th fret diamond inlay. 

any day now there will be a ngd post.


----------



## VforVendetta00

well, i rarely post these days but i've had my vader since around june last year and i gotta say i couldn't be happier with it. Carvin/Keisel has hit it out of the park with this one. I can't find a single thing to complain about it. hell even the strings they use now are outstanding! the pickups are freaking awesome! I was expecting to change em immidiately like with most guitars, but maaan they rock. and the case/gigbag is really well made and convinient, i'll probably be ordering another one soon (if i can't find a used one for cheap).


----------



## crystallake




----------



## feraledge

^ Does anyone think that doesn't look better?


----------



## StrmRidr

This was basically the only issue I had with the Vader shape previously. I just hated the way the top was cutoff. This is way better.


----------



## illimmigrant

Finally!


----------



## dhgrind

be sure to inspect your saddles.


----------



## Spicypickles

Is this real life (or is it just fantasy?)


No seriously is that a photoshop or real?


----------



## StrmRidr

Spicypickles said:


> Is this real life (or is it just fantasy?)
> 
> 
> No seriously is that a photoshop or real?



It's real. Jeff posted this on Facebook and confirmed all new Vaders are built like this now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

StrmRidr said:


> It's real. Jeff posted this on Facebook and confirmed all new Vaders are built like this now.



Now hopefully the Aries follows suit.


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

feraledge said:


> ^ Does anyone think that doesn't look better?



As long as you stay away from the Kiesel Natural Bevel Binding option, it will look nice.


----------



## wannabguitarist

StrmRidr said:


> It's real. Jeff posted this on Facebook and confirmed all new Vaders are built like this now.





Remember when this wasn't possible?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

wannabguitarist said:


> Remember when this wasn't possible?



Anythings possible, at least when money's involved.


----------



## ilyti

According to the latest "guys" FB video, they had to re-tool to do this. Remember, it's not that they couldn't do drop-tops at all, just not on the steep Vader forearm. The C66 has been around for years.


----------



## yellowv

How do you tell hundreds of customers this can't be done and then all of a sudden one day BAM you can do it.


----------



## wannabguitarist

ilyti said:


> According to the latest "guys" FB video, they had to re-tool to do this. Remember, it's not that they couldn't do drop-tops at all, just not on the steep Vader forearm. The C66 has been around for years.



Ah, I didn't know the Vader forearm cut was steeper than their other models. Still strange they didn't do this from the get go. They use 5mm tops right? I know they're thinner than they used to be.


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

yellowv said:


> How do you tell hundreds of customers this can't be done and then all of a sudden one day BAM you can do it.



Lots of time went by where you couldn't ride a bike. Then all of sudden one day BAM you can do it. 

Seriously, they've addressed the high edges on the Hip Shot bridge, the zero fret issue, Hips Shot's saddles and now they've finally given everyone their precious drop tops. Two of those problems were completely on Hip Shots' end.

How about instead of complaining about how they fixed the problems and be thankful that they actually listen to their customer's feedback.


----------



## yellowv

Before I could ride a bike I wasn't doing professional BMX competitions.

Perhaps they could have done all the R&D first instead of just rushing out as much product as they possibly can and letting the customer do the R&D for them.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Yeah, the Kiesel hate wagon is a little tired at this point. Fanned frets, headless, luminlays, offset inlays, Vader drop tops, etc. were all requested. They did what the could and inevitably delivered. I think it's great that they listen to demand, regardless of how bummy the timing is to me personally. I think it's cool that they listen to the demand.


----------



## technomancer

Señor Voorhees;4555170 said:


> Yeah, the Kiesel hate wagon is a little tired at this point. Fanned frets, headless, luminlays, offset inlays, Vader drop tops, etc. were all requested. They did what the could and inevitably delivered. I think it's great that they listen to demand, regardless of how bummy the timing is to me personally. I think it's cool that they listen to the demand.



Not nearly as tired as the sycophant fanboys 

I actually like Carvin's guitars quite a bit, but making up excuses and claiming something is impossible then suddenly doing it because enough people complain about it is just irritating. Especially when the fanboys that know nothing about guitar building argued endlessly that no it was in fact impossible to do a drop top on the Vaders because Jeff said so.

Don't get me wrong it's awesome they finally did this and added offset dot options, but come on


----------



## narad

Oh, they do drop top vaders now? That was definitely a dealbreaker...smart move.


----------



## Guamskyy

I won't lie, it is starting to get almost predictable how they do not do x because x, but after enough people complain about it, they start doing it. Thing is I would have to wait 3-4 generations of whatever Kiesel guitar I may potentially be interested in to get a guitar I want


----------



## cg138

You're right he should probably just ignore what the public wants and keep coming out with stuff regardless of public opinion. I'm sure everyone would absolutely adore that and leave him alone altogether. 

Customers ask for something -> He goes and changes what he can to do it. If it wasn't possible at the time, then it wasn't possible at the time. People hating on Kiesel for them giving people what they want is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. And it happens here constantly.

Wonder how many people will .... talk when they drop a Multiscale headless inevitably in the future since people want that so badly. Contrary to popular belief, retooling isn't free and programming brand new cuts for inlays and different parts into a CNC doesn't take minutes to pull off.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

technomancer said:


> Not nearly as tired as the sycophant fanboys
> 
> I actually like Carvin's guitars quite a bit, but making up excuses and claiming something is impossible then suddenly doing it because enough people complain about it is just irritating. Especially when the fanboys that know nothing about guitar building argued endlessly that no it was in fact impossible to do a drop top on the Vaders because Jeff said so.
> 
> Don't get me wrong it's awesome they finally did this and added offset dot options, but come on



Don't get me wrong, Kiesel can and does do stuff wrong. As I've already mentioned a couple times, I think it's irritating that I've been waiting a month for them to get a shipment of bridges. (That's half of the build time extra, waiting for a part they should have heaps of/should be getting regularly.) I also think it was stupid for them to say it was impossible and not just outside what they could do at the time. I also found it a bit baffling that they offered a guitar with such a goofy cut top to begin with. Still, when enough people throw a fit, they listen, which is pretty cool. Especially since when all is done and said, they're catering pretty heavily to a pretty damn niche market.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cg138 said:


> You're right he should probably just ignore what the public wants and keep coming out with stuff regardless of public opinion. I'm sure everyone would absolutely adore that and leave him alone altogether. .



It would help if they didn't say something was "impossible" to do at first. At least say you can't do it for now or something, but will consider doing it in the future if enough people ask.

They did the same thing when the Vader was first announced. They made it only available as a baritone, and made it seem like they wouldn't release a 25.5'' version no matter what because it would requre too much work. Enough people complained and all of a sudden they could magically make it happen. It's good they can change stuff to people's needs, but don't make anything seem impossible to do if you think it can be done down the road.

EDIT: If it ISN'T possible at the time, at least say you'll consider doing it down the road.


----------



## cg138

Pretty petty of a thing to be upset over if you ask me, I'm pretty glad Kiesel is in the market putting affordable stuff out that competes with bigger names and actually listens to us.

If the wording and use of impossible is their worst offense then I'm glad, people seem to be pretty lenient for other shady folks pulling much worse .... on others.


----------



## TemjinStrife

cg138 said:


> Pretty petty of a thing to be upset over if you ask me, I'm pretty glad Kiesel is in the market putting affordable stuff out that competes with bigger names and actually listens to us.
> 
> If the wording and use of impossible is their worst offense then I'm glad, people seem to be pretty lenient for other shady folks pulling much worse .... on others.



Well, it's not their worst offense. It's merely indicative of a marketing, customer support, and consumer interaction style that has begun to grate on many of us


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I love kiesel. Jeff kiesel on the other hand irritates the crap out of me. Just the way he talks in all his videos feels like he's trying to pull one over on me. 

I really do hate their marketing, but put me in the group that enjoys that they listen, even if they're irritating about how/why they don't do something at first.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cg138 said:


> If the wording and use of impossible is their worst offense then I'm glad, people seem to be pretty lenient for other shady folks pulling much worse .... on others.



Well there was that fracas that happened last week... 

But Chokey is right. Kiesel can make solid guitars, but their marketing and PR is ....ing abysmal. Had to unfollow Jeff Kiesel and Carvin Guitar's FB page because of how annoying the rampant hashtagging got.


----------



## cg138

What was the fracas thing?  that sounds like a username

PR seems to kill a lot of brands, Vik/Decibel/etc builders should just keep off social media or keep their use brief and tasteful.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

You know that feeling you'd get if you asked a girl out and she said no because she "Doesn't want to be in a relationship right now," and then you see her downtown with her new boyfriend the following weekend?

If you can imagine that, you can imagine why people are talking sh!t about this.

This isn't just random bandwagon hating, it's giving a company sh!t for saying one thing and then doing another. They didn't say "We aren't doing drop tops _yet_." If they said that and then started doing them, nobody'd be complaining. 

They said they aren't doing it because it's literally impossible to do due to the degree of the bend. Now magically they _can_ do it, and people are scoffing because it's reinforcing what people were saying when the model first came out: It isn't impossible, they just don't _want_ to do it.

People like when a company is straightforward with them. In this case Kiesel wasn't. Some people are justifiably disappointed.


----------



## xzacx

I agree that it's refreshing to see a brand actually listen and make changes so relatively fast. But at the same time, I think it's really unacceptable that they ever thought it was an acceptable design choice in the first place. If you don't have the capabilities yet, just wait until you do. I imagine I'd be pretty disappointed if I was someone who bought one of the earlier versions. I know that "early adapters" are always subject to being a bit of a guinea pig, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't know this would be possible sooner than later. Yeah, it takes time and money to facilitate, but don't tell people it's impossible and let your most loyal customers buy the BS version when you know darn well a superior version will be out soon.


----------



## cg138

Grand Moff Tim said:


> You know that feeling you'd get if you asked a girl out and she said no because she "Doesn't want to be in a relationship right now," and then you see her downtown with her new boyfriend the following weekend?
> 
> If you can imagine that, you can imagine why people are talking sh!t about this.



Sure but the parallel ends at the flip flop and you aren't missing out on anything given you can still score the guitar in both time points. The equivalent to the situation you posted is the Vader being removed completely from production and you lose the ability to order one.

Frustration? Sure, but I 100% see a lot of bandwagoning for some rather petty stuff as well.



xzacx said:


> I know that "early adapters" are always subject to being a bit of a guinea pig, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't know this would be possible sooner than later. Yeah, it takes time and money to facilitate, but don't tell people it's impossible and let your most loyal customers buy the BS version when you know darn well a superior version will be out soon.



How is the previous version of the Vader any less "superior" than the current ones in any department besides aesthetic? 

Because I will concede that the bent to over the contour looks infinitely better.


----------



## xzacx

cg138 said:


> How is the previous version of the Vader any less "superior" than the current ones in any department besides aesthetic?
> 
> Because I will concede that the bent to over the contour looks infinitely better.




You said it yourself - the aesthetic. If you paid the extra money for the top, you cared about the aesthetics. Otherwise you could have saved money and got a solid color. So if you concede that it looks better without the chopped off top, what is there to scratch your head about?


----------



## cg138

xzacx said:


> You said it yourself - the aesthetic. If you paid the extra money for the top, you cared about the aesthetics. Otherwise you could have saved money and got a solid color. So if you concede that it looks better without the chopped off top, what is there to scratch your head about?



Your implication that the instrument is somehow inferior. Its made to the same standards and has the same build quality as everything else they offer. That's how, you can justify what you're saying by implying that the aesthetics alone make the instrument a weaker variant in comparison to a newer one.

If the bridge design was improved, or there were actual improvements in function (The zero fret being removed in favor of a nut). Then that's a valid point.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cg138 said:


> What was the fracas thing?  that sounds like a username



The dealio about how someone here didn't get a refund from Kiesel until he raised hell about it on different forums and social media. 

Also, the maple-stops-here thing is ....ing ugly. Who cares if it didn't effect playability? Your fanboyism is off the charts dude. It's exactly what Technomancer was talking about.


----------



## cg138

I don't own any Kiesels/Carvins and don't actually play anything even remotely similar to what they offer. So you calling it fanboyism isn't correct in the least  

I already said the new cutaway being gone is an improvement, it doesn't affect playability and people who *actually* own Vaders more than likely don't feel like they got the short end of the stick if they were okay with it enough to place an order before all this 

Having a conversation and disagreeing with a popular viewpoint is fanboying too hard, who knew? 

The refund thing is unacceptable on all counts if it was something that Kiesel messed up on.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, count me among those not super thrilled with this. I think they (Kiesel) knew people didn't like the cut, and therefore were working on it. So it would have been nice to tell people when they started working on it that it was a soon-to-be thing. I know that might have hurt short term sales, but I think it would have been very up front. And I understand that the playability isn't affected, but here's the thing: I would say the majority of people (at least on here) that order a semicustom guitar are doing so with the full realization that they are making compromises from what they would really like. So I just think it's nice to know what is coming down the pike. It's kind of like how in the past some people would want a certain Option 50 feature, and be denied, only to see an NGD from someone else that got it. 
I guess you could call this the early-adopter price. But I think it would be nice if they started giving us a heads up of what is coming so we can make a decision on what to buy. For instance, I am reluctant to buy something, because I'm worried that in a couple of months there will be another thing closer to what I want in an ideal instrument. First it was an 8 string. Then a bolt on instrument. Then a fan. So I have no idea whether there might be a reverse inline 8 HS, or a wider fan, or pickups on the fan angle, or a semihollow option, or.... If I knew with a reasonable degree of certainty that these things were under development or not I could make a decision on whether to hold tight or go ahead and order. 

And before anyone points out that other guitar companies don't do it, I'd say it doesn't really matter what other guitar companies do. I think Jeff would like to make this company something more than other companies have become. And IMO having a customer base that doesn't have forward-facing buyers remorse (paranoia?) would be an awesome thing.

And, for the record, I'm super thrilled with all of the niche products they'er coming out with. And I am a Carvin owner. But I can't just give them a random pass on everything.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

cg138 said:


> Sure but the parallel ends at the flip flop and you aren't missing out on anything given you can still score the guitar in both time points. The equivalent to the situation you posted is the Vader being removed completely from production and you lose the ability to order one.



The ability to order one now is completely beside the point. 

The problem wasn't that you couldn't get a droptop at the time, it was that they were bullsh!tting potential clients with nonsense excuses for not doing it. 

Doing it now makes it available, yes, but it also proves they were talking out of their asses in the past. It's about principles, not model or spec availability.


----------



## spudmunkey

It's probably worth noting that this has been in place, and every guitar ordered since Feb 1 will have the new drop top.


----------



## bostjan

Carvin isn't the first company to tell potential customers that they will never ever ever make a certain option available, then turn around and make exactly that option available. 

I can speculate about why they would purposely withhold the information that they are working on something, but, to me, they'd save face by keeping quiet, rather than stating something contrary to plans in the works, as there are many reasons customers might not receive the news well.


----------



## StrmRidr

To be fair, it was impossible to do with their previous setup. Jeff stated they had to retool to make this possible. On the other side of things, I agree that it was not the best move to keep this a secret. There will be some customers who ordered a Vader before this change that will be pissed to know they would have had a full top if they had waited a few extra days/weeks to order. I know I would be.


----------



## mbardu

Everybody does that. 
In all industries. Release a product, sell it with the best marketing possible. Release an update. Release a new product. Change your message along the way. 

As the buyer, you either wait forever for something better or buy when you feel the offer is worth your money. 

There used to be a time when Carvin seemed more "honest" about those things... But I guess that was more of a perception because their product cycles were say longer / less frequent. Now it seems like frequent changes, model updates etc are just facts of life... Live with it and buy when the price and features match you need... And disregard the marketing or talks of what's possible / impossible. 

On a personal level, I have a mixed feeling about this particular development... Might have made me go to a figured top on my Vader had this been available so maybe a tad disappointed... But on the other hand that made me save a bunch of $$ and I'm happy to have this as a much better option for a future build. 

One thing for sure... I would certainly be very unhappy if I had ordered a nice figured burl before the change though..


----------



## SnowfaLL

this reminds me of the AxeFX people; the ones who say "Dont order an AxeFX now, cause the AxeFX III Mark 5D Alpha will be coming next month!" or whatever.. To be fair, they did release like 3 revisions in the past few years (II, Mark II, XL, isnt there another even since?) - If you keep waiting for the newest model, You'll never get one. So the choice is yours.

And before people saying the "but Fractal never said anything was impossible" - uhhh every single firmware update, Cliff states how this is more "realer" than any tube amp ever, theres literally 0 ways to improve on his algorithms, and how every update is like "night and day" difference (lately with Quantum lol) yet everyone absolutely loves Fractal Audio for it.. 

I guess its just cool to hate on Kiesel/Carvin again, much like everyone did before Jeff came into the fold ironically. Yes, Jeff can be annoying at times, but I bet if you put Paul Reed Smith, John Suhr, Tom Anderson, Ron Thorn or Leo Fender or anyone of those big guys on a youtube account, they are gonna tell you how their guitars are so much better than everyone elses also. It's expected.


----------



## asher

SnowfaLL said:


> And before people saying the "but Fractal never said anything was impossible" - uhhh every single firmware update, Cliff states how this is more "realer" than any tube amp ever, theres literally 0 ways to improve on his algorithms, and how every update is like "night and day" difference (lately with Quantum lol) yet everyone absolutely loves Fractal Audio for it..



It's worth ragging on Cliff, but this really isn't the same thing.

Because this is about a "feature" that should have been there from day one, and when asked about, we heard a bunch of gab that was verifiable bull.....


----------



## cg138

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, count me among those not super thrilled with this. *I think* they (Kiesel) knew people didn't like the cut, and *therefore were working on it*. So it would have been nice to tell people *when they started working* on it that it was a soon-to-be thing. I know that might have hurt short term sales, but I think it would have been very up front.
> 
> And before anyone points out that other guitar companies don't do it, I'd say it doesn't really matter what other guitar companies do. I think Jeff would like to make this company something more than other companies have become. And IMO having a customer base that doesn't have forward-facing buyers remorse (paranoia?) would be an awesome thing.
> 
> And, for the record, I'm super thrilled with all of the niche products they'er coming out with. And I am a Carvin owner. But I can't just give them a random pass on everything.



So you're making a lot of assumptions with no info to back it up? That's all I'm seeing on your end, if you want to get something they don't offer yet then so be it. Wait until it's available or ask for it to be an option and get enough people to back your own desires. They have no obligation to continue developing and adding every little spec you want until there's a new option available that you might want on your build. Order from a luthier that will let you get every little option you want then immediately vs waiting for Kiesel to do it.

It's the same thing in every industry, Apple refreshes their lines of computers every now and then and people who bought a computer shortly before didn't get the spec bump they would have and they whine about it everywhere they can.

You said it yourself, NO other company reminds their customers "Hey guys! Hold off on our stuff for a little bit, we have XXXXX coming so if you want to get this you should wait to order it!". Dog piling on Kiesel for not doing what no existing guitar company does is a hilarious spin on the bandwagon hate they get here. No company shows all their cards and keeps their customers in the loop to that extent and you know that. I doubt they very much care that you won't give them a "free pass" whenever you disagree with something  as if individuals like you and me have any kind of pull 



Grand Moff Tim said:


> The ability to order one now is completely beside the point.
> 
> The problem wasn't that you couldn't get a droptop at the time, it was that they were bullsh!tting potential clients with nonsense excuses for not doing it.
> 
> Doing it now makes it available, yes, but it also proves they were talking out of their asses in the past. It's about principles, not model or spec availability.



It doesn't prove anything, if something is impossible at that point and time then what's the issue? What if they decided to look into the possibility last month? Do you know the intricacies of the business that much to make a call like that and point fingers and calling others dishonest bull....ters with ill intention?

This is all just conjecture and it's all it will ever be, doesn't seem like certain people will ever be satisfied with Jeff no matter what he does. Even though Kiesel/Carvin has done more for the ERG market than many other companies have.

The only "principle" you should be offended at, is that guy referenced above not being given a refund if the situation was something on the fault of Kiesel.


----------



## Hollowway

cg138 said:


> So you're making a lot of assumptions with no info to back it up? That's all I'm seeing on your end, if you want to get something they don't offer yet then so be it. Wait until it's available or ask for it to be an option and get enough people to back your own desires. They have no obligation to continue developing and adding every little spec you want until there's a new option available that you might want on your build. Order from a luthier that will let you get every little option you want then immediately vs waiting for Kiesel to do it.
> 
> It's the same thing in every industry, Apple refreshes their lines of computers every now and then and people who bought a computer shortly before didn't get the spec bump they would have and they whine about it everywhere they can.
> 
> You said it yourself, NO other company reminds their customers "Hey guys! Hold off on our stuff for a little bit, we have XXXXX coming so if you want to get this you should wait to order it!". Dog piling on Kiesel for not doing what no existing guitar company does is a hilarious spin on the bandwagon hate they get here. No company shows all their cards and keeps their customers in the loop to that extent and you know that. I doubt they very much care that you won't give them a "free pass" whenever you disagree with something  as if individuals like you and me have any kind of pull
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't prove anything, if something is impossible at that point and time then what's the issue? What if they decided to look into the possibility last month? Do you know the intricacies of the business that much to make a call like that and point fingers and calling others dishonest bull....ters with ill intention?
> 
> This is all just conjecture and it's all it will ever be, doesn't seem like certain people will ever be satisfied with Jeff no matter what he does. Even though Kiesel/Carvin has done more for the ERG market than many other companies have.
> 
> The only "principle" you should be offended at, is that guy referenced above not being given a refund if the situation was something on the fault of Kiesel.



I said they were working on it before they released it, and you say I'm making unfounded assumptions?  What's your estimation of how it came to be? That it randomly occurred in nature? Of course they were working on it before they released it. I suspect they had to do quite a bit of reprogramming to make the new top. You may be making the assumption (see what I did there?) that I meant they were saying they couldn't do it WHILE they were working on it. But that's not what I meant. I don't think they were being dishonest. All I'm saying is that I, personally, would like it better if they said, "hey guys, we're working on a new top where the wood isn't cut off at the bevel. We expect to have it ready Feb 1." But I'm aware that it may have been decided against to not affect sales.


----------



## cg138

I don't have an estimation because you're as clueless as we are about how any of this came to be 

And well if you personally think that's the case, tell that to every other company as well. I'd like to know what's coming so I can make an informed choice of what to purchase with my money before they release a feature or two that I might miss out on and ruin a whole guitar for


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

cg138 said:


> It doesn't prove anything, if something is impossible at that point and time then what's the issue? What if they decided to look into the possibility last month? Do you know the intricacies of the business that much to make a call like that and point fingers and calling others dishonest bull....ters with ill intention?
> 
> This is all just conjecture and it's all it will ever be, doesn't seem like certain people will ever be satisfied with Jeff no matter what he does. Even though Kiesel/Carvin has done more for the ERG market than many other companies have.
> 
> The only "principle" you should be offended at, is that guy referenced above not being given a refund if the situation was something on the fault of Kiesel.



Look man, it's fine if it doesn't bother you that he wasn't straightforward with his customers. It's perfectly okay to still like a company's products even if they occasionally say something dumb. Nobody will fault you for it.

However, that doesn't mean the people who are scoffing at this are just being wildly speculative or ignorant of the "intricacies of the business."

In the past, there have been instances of people asking Carvin for a spec and being told "We aren't set up for that right now, so we can't do it." Then later, after they acquired the proper set up to do it, they started doing it. The people get their spec, Carvin was open and honest about it; Everybody's happy.

With that as a backdrop, being told "We aren't doing a bent top because it isn't possible to bend a top at that angle" didn't sound like the same thing. That's less "we aren't set up to do that" and more "that's a thing that can't be done by a luthier."

I don't think anyone is thinking Kiesel said it was impossible while cackling at the sky and wringing his hands. I don't think he had evil intentions or anything. I'm not offended. I just think he was making a bullsh!t excuse for not doing something rather than just being straightforward about it like his company had been in the past in similar situations. 

Again, it's fine if that doesn't bother you, but I honestly don't understand how you can't see why some people feel the way we do about it or why you're so intent on changing our minds about it.


----------



## Hollowway

cg138 said:


> I don't have an estimation because you're as clueless as we are about how any of this came to be
> 
> And well if you personally think that's the case, tell that to every other company as well. I'd like to know what's coming so I can make an informed choice of what to purchase with my money before they release a feature or two that I might miss out on and ruin a whole guitar for



Exactly. Which is why I buy customs if I cont see what I want in a production model. That comes with a whole other host of problems, but that way I can get exactly what I want. And as I said before, I understand what their reasons are, I just personally would like to know what they're working on, but I understand they may not want to do that. I'm not sure why some people insist that there is an a priori rule that Kiesel does everything right and we should all fall into line. The "that's how other companies do it" doesn't really fly, because I don't think any company should limit their perspective to what has been done before. Were that the case Kiesel wouldn't exist. If anything, I'd say those critical of the company do more for it than those who say "keep your mouth shut unless you have glowing praise." 

Note that in my original post I was hardly coming out guns blazing. Yet you seem to have an issue with me having a different opinion than you. Which is fine, but if you can have a problem with my opinions on guitars then I can have a problem with Jeff Kiesel's opinions on guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey

The fact of the matter is that those that bought the "old" style pulled the trigger when they did because, in the end, they were OK-enough with what they were buying at the price they were offered, that they pulled the trigger on an order, spent their money, and didn't return it for a refund.

I'm not saying that, in a perfect world, I wouldn't want to know what every company is planning so I can be strategic with all of my purchases. But do I think it's reasonable? No. I mean, don't they say to never buy the first version of anything? (just a little joke to keep it light.  )

I realize that the issue that some folks have is that they understood that they were never going to do it, when in fact they ended up doing it. I guess my question is...did they ever "officially" say "never" and "impossible", or is that just an exaggerated understanding of their actual words when describing the way that they used to do it? I just went through and checked out, from what I can tell, all of Jeff's relevant FB Videos, all of Kiesel's relevant FB videos, and all of Kiesel's relevant YouTube videos...and didn't see anything about it being "impossible". And even then, by "impossible", it certainly was...with the tooling/clamping process they used to make the guitar as it was designed and released (2/1/2015). Less than 1 year later, they had redesigned this tooling, and exactly one year after launch (2/1/2016), they started building it this way. The model was only a year old when they changed it, so it's not like this was in development for years. It was likely a very short time. I'm sure they wouldn't even have considered it within the first few months after launch, assuming that people would just get used to the unique design element. It's likely that they didn't even look into the actual demand and associated costs until very recently...at least, in my opinion.

And again, nobody put a gun to anyone's head...everyone who bought one did so knowing what the forearm contour shaping method was when they pulled the trigger to order. At some level, they had to be OK with it at the price they paid for it. On the off chance that they DIDN'T know it was a carved (instead of bent) top, well that's their own fault for not doing any research. Did the Mazda dealer tell me, "Wait! Don't buy one now...the 2016 will come with folding mirrors!" when I bought me car? No. Would I have liked the folding mirrors? Yes. Am I upset about it? Not particularly.

And lastly, I think we can all agree that adding a drop-top (instead of just flat slabs that get carved down) is likely a more time-consuming and labor-intensive process, and possibly even adds leadtime since they likely steam the bend (that may not be right at all, but it seems possible), and they had to pay in both time and dollars for whatever new tooling/clamp faces they needed...and yet it comes with no price increase...which I think it pretty cool.


----------



## feraledge

Quick question: has anyone taken one of these on a flight? Pretty easy to bring on board?


----------



## mbardu

feraledge said:


> Quick question: has anyone taken one of these on a flight? Pretty easy to bring on board?



I have and it was pretty smooth but it was in Business on Singapore Airlines so I don't know if I should generalize... 
I would not try it on a cramped US internal flight with people cramming all their carry-ons in there and risk having to check it in at the last minute.


----------



## mcsalty

spudmunkey said:


> I guess my question is...did they ever "officially" say "never" and "impossible", or is that just an exaggerated understanding of their actual words when describing the way that they used to do it?














This is just what I could find without a lot of effort; I'm sure someone else can provide better examples, but "you can't bend a top that much in that short of a distance" doesn't leave a whole lot of room for interpretation lol.

I'd also like to make it clear that I'm pretty neutral on this whole thing before I get accused of jumping on the Kiesel hate-train.


----------



## SnowfaLL

So once again, no answer from Jeff himself, but only from the "social media guy" - whos also been making all the issues with copyright photos, etc.. I will always wonder why they hired him in the first place =/


----------



## xzacx

SnowfaLL said:


> So once again, no answer from Jeff himself, but only from the "social media guy" - whos also been making all the issues with copyright photos, etc.. I will always wonder why they hired him in the first place =/



Regardless, you can't seriously say that wasn't an official response. Lots of people have no idea who Jeff even is. If you get a response from that account, people can reasonably expect it to be legit. And ultimately Jeff is responsible for the people he has running social media, and the messaging they're putting out.


----------



## iamdunker

I posted a NGD but i feel this fiddle should be archived in this thread.
Grabber Blue Satin
Zebrawood fret board
Jumbo Stainless Frets
Luminlay side markers only
Thin Neck Profile


----------



## olejason

Hopefully this makes sense, is there any way to get a neck finish on a Carvin like the Gibson Faded series? The way you can feel the grain and it isn't completely smooth.


----------



## feraledge

olejason said:


> Hopefully this makes sense, is there any way to get a neck finish on a Carvin like the Gibson Faded series? The way you can feel the grain and it isn't completely smooth.



Tung oil neck.


----------



## feraledge

FYI, will be back in 9-10 weeks.


----------



## LordCashew

cg138 said:


> And well if you personally think that's the case, tell that to every other company as well. I'd like to know what's coming so I can make an informed choice of what to purchase with my money before they release a feature or two that I might miss out on and ruin a whole guitar for



I see your point, but I think the fact that Carvin makes almost all of their guitars on a per-order basis strains this comparison a bit. Apple, Nissan, etc all are making huge batches of like product that end up as inventory that sits around needing to be sold. If they were to say, "Wait up, a better version is coming," some consumers simply wouldn't buy the existing inventory unless it was heavily discounted.

If Carvin were to announce an improvement in the pipeline, it could indeed hurt related sales in the short term (something they might not be hugely worried about at a juncture where their lead time is atypically long). But they wouldn't have tons of the previous version sitting around - the customers could just wait to get the new version instead, with nothing going to waste. In fact, knowing that a dealbreaking feature was about to change might gain them _additional_ business from people who might have otherwise spent their money elsewhere in the meantime. 

Kiesel's business model could really set them up to capitalize on that kind of transparency IMHO. But I'm no expert, you guys can feel free to educate me if I'm wrong.


----------



## ElRay

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well there was that fracas that happened last week...



What fracas? I see no evidence (here) of any fracas.


----------



## spudmunkey

olejason said:


> Hopefully this makes sense, is there any way to get a neck finish on a Carvin like the Gibson Faded series? The way you can feel the grain and it isn't completely smooth.





feraledge said:


> Tung oil neck.



To add to that, you'll want to pick a wood that is more open-grained. Maple will still feel very smooth because it isn't very dense, and it sands to a very smooth finish.

Something like mahogany naturally is a more-porous wood, so there is more texture to feel.


----------



## StrmRidr

feraledge said:


> FYI, will be back in 9-10 weeks.



You need to give us more details buddy.


----------



## feraledge

StrmRidr said:


> You need to give us more details buddy.



V6 - Kiesel Vader Headless Electric Guitar
Right Handed
$ 0.00 - KRO - Kiesel Racing Orange 
$ 0.00 - CS - Satin Matte Finish 
$ 60.00 - ASH - Maple Neck/Swamp Ash Body 
$ 60.00 - TN - Tung Oil Finish Back Of Neck (Natural Wood)
$ 0.00 - 255 - 25.5 Inch Scale Length (No Charge) 
$ 0.00 - MF - Maple Fingerboard (Tung-Oiled) 
$ 0.00 - IOD - Offset Dot Inlays (All On Top Side)
$ 20.00 - IAB - Black Acrylic Inlay Material 
$ 0.00 - -WSD - Standard Side Dots (Standard) 
$ 20.00 - 6100 - Jumbo Frets .055" H .110" W 
$ 40.00 - R14 - 14in Fretboard Radius 
$ 0.00 - -BC - Black Hardware (Standard) 
$ 0.00 - -K12B - Kiesel K12B Passive Bridge Pickup (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -K12N - Kiesel K12N Passive Neck Pickup (Standard)
$ 5.00 - 402 - Cream Pickups (N/A on S60A) 
$ 0.00 - BL - Black Logo 
$ 0.00 - -1046E - Elixir Light Gauge .010 - .046 (Standard)
$ 50.00 - SC9 - Black Ultimate Soft Guitar Case


----------



## mbardu

spudmunkey said:


> To add to that, you'll want to pick a wood that is more open-grained. Maple will still feel very smooth because it isn't very dense, and it sands to a very smooth finish.
> 
> Something like mahogany naturally is a more-porous wood, so there is more texture to feel.



I vote walnut


----------



## BigViolin

KRO with a maple board is going to be sick!

Looking forward to seeing that, Feraledge.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## kevdes93

It was inevitable


----------



## Guamskyy

I can't even right now


----------



## ferret




----------



## mbardu

Sso is going to collapse upon itself


----------



## SnowfaLL

bah.. why can't I sell my normal Vader fast enough right now! Must have this.


----------



## downburst82




----------



## mbardu

So how do you guys feel about the headpiece being straight and not aligned with a nut, leaving a weird "triangle" of fretboard there?


----------



## mbardu

I had absolutely zero interest ordering a new kiesel considering how well I'm covered but I just can't resist this


----------



## cip 123

mbardu said:


> So how do you guys feel about the headpiece being straight and not aligned with a nut, leaving a weird "triangle" of fretboard there?



Actually looks good since it's headless and it goes right up to the headpiece. The triangles only bother me when it has a headstock and they just leave it there.

On this design it looks good, if it were to cut off then it would show wood underneath or possibly truss rod depending how it's built. Looks good plus probably best way to look imo.


----------



## kevdes93

mbardu said:


> So how do you guys feel about the headpiece being straight and not aligned with a nut, leaving a weird "triangle" of fretboard there?



Doesn't bother me, I could deal with it on my multiscale ibanez so I think i can deal with it on this. Looking promising so far, interested to see the bridge


----------



## mbardu

Anyone can photoshop Jeff here :


----------



## spudmunkey

Not to revive a dead horse, but he also mentioned that the biggest inspiration for the change in the drop-top came from NAMM. If that's legit, that means they really decided to change their tooling and hardware for the drop-tops in January, and put it into production starting Feb 1st.


----------



## straightshreddd

Jesus tapdancing christ... I must have one of these. Might be a while, but it's gonna happen.


----------



## mnemonic

From what I see in the fanned vader pic, I think I like the body shape a bit more here. Seems to flow a bit more than the straight-fret version, and look a bit less 'rigid.' I don't know if that makes any sense.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

So how many folks who ordered a straight scale are gonna return them under the trial period and get the fanned? I have no desire for the fanned frets but its cool to see it being done. Looks to be one of the better fanned headless options out there.


----------



## SnowfaLL

spudmunkey said:


> Not to revive a dead horse, but he also mentioned that the biggest inspiration for the change in the drop-top came from NAMM. If that's legit, that means they really decided to change their tooling and hardware for the drop-tops in January, and put it into production starting Feb 1st.



But SS.org wanted Jeff to tell them in January 2015 that "A year from now, we'll decide to change our tooling and CNC machines.. so don't order now! Wait til then!" - So its a fail.


----------



## oremus91

I'm fine with the straight scale that I ordered at the end of Jan/beginning of Feb, but man oh man do I hope I have that full looking top. I tried calling when I got home but it was too late I'll have to check on Monday.


----------



## mbardu

oremus91 said:


> I'm fine with the straight scale that I ordered at the end of Jan/beginning of Feb, but man oh man do I hope I have that full looking top. I tried calling when I got home but it was too late I'll have to check on Monday.



Worst case scenario send it back for a rebuild.


----------



## VforVendetta00

goddamn it! i just ordered an agile 8 multiscale yesterday precisely because carvin didn't have a headless multi scale!


----------



## ChubbyEwok

Incase you guys haven't seen this yet, they posted an announcement video as well.


----------



## Hollowway

SnowfaLL said:


> But SS.org wanted Jeff to tell them in January 2015 that "A year from now, we'll decide to change our tooling and CNC machines.. so don't order now! Wait til then!" - So its a fail.



Nah, I think it was when the Aries multiscales came out, and they said they wouldn't do it for the Vader for a long time because of it requiring all the changes. That was just a couple of months ago. 

That being said, this was one of the things I was waiting for, so I may be back in the market. If I can price out a reasonable one with cool specs I may have to pull the trigger. I kinda want to see a picture of the bridge, though. Anyone know when this sale period is over? I saw in the video that they're only $100 more than the regular ones at this point, but I want to see the bridge first, so I' thinking I gotta wait it out some.

I think the take home message from all of this is that we should assume that they're working on a lot of different things, irrespective of what they say. It used to mean when Carvin said, "No" that meant for sure now. Now it means, "soon." So, for people like me, who have a particular set of specs they want, it actually makes more sense to have a no-compromise approach, and just wait for what you want, rather than get something that's close. I mean, a couple of years ago if I said I wanted to get a buckeye Carvin 8 string multiscale headless it would have been considered lunacy. 

EDIT: Oh, and you heard it here first. I'm officially waiting for a Numbers 8 string. Woot! Have faith brothers!


----------



## feraledge

It's clear from the video that Jeff and everyone is listening to what's being said, it'd just be nice if their PR moves were more forward thinking and honest like he is in this video. If he's turning the page on that, he's taking good notes from Perry and that's a really good thing. 
I am curious though, he says in the video "floating nut", curious on that one. 
Regardless, I'm still feeling confident about my V6 order even though the multiscale option came out a day later. Not wanting to wait 20 weeks on this and I'm fine with standard scale. 
They are making good moves, I just hope it's a trend.


----------



## Alberto7

Hollowway said:


> I mean, a couple of years ago if I said I wanted to get a buckeye Carvin 8 string multiscale headless it would have been considered lunacy.



It's funny, I was thinking about that. I got my DC727 in May 2010, almost 6 years ago. A semi-custom 7-string guitar with a flamed koa top, swamp ash back, ebony board, stainless frets, and coil splitters? For under $1800?! T'was nuts! Now that we're getting multiscale headless 8-strings with buckeye burl tops, my DC727 is completely uneventful.  (Still plays great though!) They've come a long way as far as options go.

Like it's been said before in the thread, the whole PR side of the company is annoying AF (and I'm sorry, I know Jeff is a cool guy and all, but I can't stand his promo videos), but it's awesome seeing all this new stuff coming out. Maybe because I don't have an order with them right now that I know I'd regret having placed after seeing the new options.


----------



## spudmunkey

I will say, I thi this is Jeff's best video in terms of how he comes off. Well written, well delivered, and doesn't seem much of a sense of inflated ego, or over-the-top salespitch.


----------



## straightshreddd

I think this is the most rapid rate of improvements and model releases an established guitar company has ever seen. That's kinda what blows my mind when I see the negativity. I understand small complaints and minor grievances or occasional lemons that need to get dealt with, but Kiesel/Carvin is pretty much the most progressive, yet mainstream-ish, guitar company out there. I love what they're doing.

Sh*t, I remember a few years ago when just having an 8 string release and the DC7X(which took years for them to okay) was insane. 

They have a great factory, tons of years behind them, great prices/quality for semi-custom guitars, and the business model is perfect for this economy. It's been years since I was a fanboy (Like, I'm thinkin' 2010 when Ibanez was my only, preferred option), but I think I'm a full on Kiesel/Carvin fanboy now.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

This changes everything!  They fixed the Vader top bevel and now this, great move Jeff. 

My only hesitation to get a multiscale is the angled pickups. Say that I want to change the stock ones later on, where do I get a slanted Dimarzio, or SD 8-string pickup?


----------



## straightshreddd

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> This changes everything!  They fixed the Vader top bevel and now this, great move Jeff.
> 
> My only hesitation to get a multiscale is the angled pickups. Say that I want to change the stock ones later on, where do I get a slanted Dimarzio, or SD 8-string pickup?



I'm pretty sure you can get a custom slanted SD set and BKP set, but I'm not sure about dimarzio. Maybe contact the axe palace or a dimarzio rep.


----------



## mnemonic

Cool video. Much better audio production than in the past, where it sounded like they were using a camera mic in a very echo-y room. 

Really curious about what the bridge looks like now.


----------



## laxu

They've really fixed all my beefs with the Vader. I hope they make the bass have the multiscale option as well.

In fact I wish they started offering the multiscale on all their models. Apart from the carved tops most of them should require quite minimal changes to the CNC programming. I imagine that will happen eventually.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> My only hesitation to get a multiscale is the angled pickups. Say that I want to change the stock ones later on, where do I get a slanted Dimarzio, or SD 8-string pickup?



Dimarzio won't do custom pickups, nevermind slanted ones, not a chance.

Seymour Duncan will make you anything you want, you just need the cash and the patience since their build time is very long.

Bareknuckle can make you a slanted pickup that will fit the Carvin routes and slant BUT it will be a 10 degree pickup angled to fit the carvins routes which AFAIK from an email I saw are 16 degrees so the pole pieces won't line up that well.

Other options are Ludgren, Blackwater(can do any slant), Instrumental pickups but not all their baseplates might fit the carvin routes.

You could also ship your pickups to various guys and have them change the magnets/windings and whatever goes into making a pickup. I'm not experienced at all here.


----------



## cubix

Those are some awesome improvements. I'm very curious about the bridge. I don't know how I would feel if I purchased a guitar without the bent top and the fanned frets because they said it will never happen, and now (in quite a short period of time) it's happening  It's sort of good and bad at the same time. A dealbreaker for me seem to be the slanted pickup routes, basically limiting your choice (I think). I would love for at least the 6 string to have standard pickup routing... I'm an EMG fan, I know guys don't like them, but I would love to have a possibility to swap them.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

Is a black limba neck-through 8 a bad idea as far as tone goes? I'm thinking it may be too dark or possibly even muddy.

Anyways, here is what I plan on ordering Monday

Specs
NLMB - Black Limba Neck & Body	$200.00
CS - Satin Matte Finish	$0.00
FDT - Deep Tigers Eye Flame	$250.00
CMB - Chambered Body (Must Order Optional Top Wood)	$150.00
TN - Tung Oil Finish Back Of Neck (Natural Wood)	$60.00
REF - Royal Ebony Fingerboard	$60.00
ISOD - Offset Dot Inlays (Staggered)	$0.00
IMP - Mother of Pearl Inlay Material	$0.00
-WSD - Standard Side Dots (Standard)	$0.00
STJF - Stainless Jumbo Frets .055" H .110" W	$40.00
-R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)	$0.00
-K16B - Kiesel K16B Direct-Mount Passive Bridge Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-K16N - Kiesel K16N Direct-Mount Passive Neck Pickup (Standard)	$0.00
-400 - Black Pickups (Standard)	$0.00
-BC - Black Hardware (Standard)	$0.00
-1074 - 1074 Light Gauge .010 - .074 (Standard)	$0.00
WL - White Logo	$0.00 (I haven't decided on a logo yet)
SC9 - Black Ultimate Soft Guitar Case

I'm hoping they can get the finish close to this


----------



## Krucifixtion

Finally doing the wood over top bend and now a 25.5-27" fanned option for a V7 has sealed the deal for me.

Now the only question is whether I am going to go with the Arctic finish or do a Buckeye Burl top. Decisions, decisions....


----------



## Fathand

Even though they've made a couple of PR blunders (never say _never_, you know, if you're in a customer related business), I'd say they pretty much seem to deliver what the people are asking for. And for a guitar company, and in this time frame they're doing it right now that's pretty cool. I don't really get the hate / negativity pointed at them. I'll give them 


And a HH1 is still on my "GAS/to get" list.


----------



## BigViolin

Fathand, definitely get that HH1. I ordered mine as soon as they came out and it's been my most played since, wouldn't be without one.

I will however be ordering a Vader multiscale, it's pretty much the guitar I've been waiting for.


----------



## HighGain510

It was a definite "DERP" move on his part to say they would never do fanned frets (and specifically on a Vader ) and then "change his mind", but the fact that they're doing it is cool IMHO. I already placed my order for a fairly custom Vader 7 and the fanned frets would have been nice to make for a more true comparison to my Boden OS7, but the fact that they fixed the lack of a true drop top/bent top was a nice enough change for me to be happy I waited long enough for that.  

I'll see how my Vader 7 turns out and see what's up with the fanned bridge (no idea why they would debut it and ask for pre-orders without letting folks see the whole thing, seems like they're begging for yet another issue like they had with the original high-walled Hipshot Vader bridge they needed to change AFTER folks like myself saw it and pointed out the issue to them publicly... show that you learn from your mistakes, guys! ) and might consider another one, the regular Vader design is pretty nice and if I ordered a fanned one it will likely be plain just to make sure if I don't love it that I wouldn't be barred from taking advantage of their 10-day return policy window.  All of that being said, it's great to see them add another option people are looking for and I truly hope the implementation is solid as that's one more item on the market competing for the "semi-custom ergonomic fanned headless" folks' cash and more competition is never a bad thing.


----------



## Five Ten

I think it's interesting that they caught so much hell for saying they couldn't and wouldn't bend tops, then recieved so much praise when they went ahead and started making fanned Vaders despite having said that there was no chance they were going to do it in the near future less than a year ago.

I was happy with the not-so-drop top and straight frets. I think it's great that they listened to customers and made a full drop top and fanned frets. I do still think it's weird that they wouldn't tell people they were planning to do it. That's how you make bad blood. A simple "we're working on it" would suffice.


----------



## mnemonic

I don't remember them saying they wouldn't ever do fanned vaders, I thought they had said it was dependent on sales and nothing was planned. Maybe I missed it though.

Regarding the bent tops, they repeatedly said it was impossible, and now they're doing it, they're just proving they weren't being truthful. most people don't like being lied to. 

if they just said that they didn't want to, or that it cost too much to tool up for that, I doubt people would have made a big deal about it at all.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

ChubbyEwok said:


>





Jeff in the video said:


> I tried other multiscale guitars and I wasn't a fan


----------



## Chokey Chicken

mnemonic said:


> I don't remember them saying they wouldn't ever do fanned vaders, I thought they had said it was dependent on sales and nothing was planned. Maybe I missed it though.
> 
> Regarding the bent tops, they repeatedly said it was impossible, and now they're doing it, they're just proving they weren't being truthful. most people don't like being lied to.
> 
> if they just said that they didn't want to, or that it cost too much to tool up for that, I doubt people would have made a big deal about it at all.



There was a video where he made it seem that it was a long ways off. Not the sane as saying it won't happen, but it is weird they didn't say "welp, you guys wanted it and showed interest, were working on the fanned Vader."

I'm sure some folks would have liked a bit of a heads up before ordering a straight scale.


----------



## kevdes93

I specifically remember him saying that it depended on the Aries multiscale sales. He said "he'd look into the costs to tool the bridge" if he deemed it a fruitful venture


----------



## downburst82

Its the apple strategy. Release a updated version (or in this case add available specs/options) every year (or few months) so people are compelled to spend more money to get the slightly better version of what they already have that works perfectly fine...

*Obviously its not exactly apples to apples but it does feel they may have a similar game plan in mind.


----------



## technomancer

downburst82 said:


> Its the apple strategy. Release a updated version (or in this case add available specs/options) every year (or few months) so people are compelled to spend more money to get the slightly better version of what they already have that works perfectly fine...
> 
> *Obviously its not exactly apples to apples but it does feel they make have a similar game plan in mind.



You mean the same strategy the entire computer industry has used since it started?  Mainly because chip technology keeps getting pushed forward?

That said these look pretty cool but I really want to see what the bridge looks like. I have no idea why you would even introduce something like this before the hardware design is finalized...


----------



## SnowfaLL

technomancer said:


> You mean the same strategy the entire computer industry has used since it started?  Mainly because chip technology keeps getting pushed forward?
> 
> That said these look pretty cool but I really want to see what the bridge looks like. I have no idea why you would even introduce something like this before the hardware design is finalized...



Probably because everyone is always saying "You guys released a new model?? I just paid for X model and I wish I knew you were working on Y model! What a terrible company!" so this way, least people know the FF Vader is in the works. They know calls are going to come in every single day asking about it if they don't say when its ready, so they decided to let orders happen now with a huge wait time (for their standards).


----------



## jwade

ChubbyEwok said:


>




I made it through less than 1 minute of the video before closing the tab. So much b.s in his videos. "_I tried so many multi scales, and they just weren't comfortable._" The **** out of here with your used car salesman nonsense.


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## straightshreddd

jwade said:


> I made it through less than 1 minute of the video before closing the tab. So much b.s in his videos. "_I tried so many multi scales, and they just weren't comfortable._" The **** out of here with your used car salesman nonsense.



lol jesus, dude. Relax


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## BigViolin

Dunlop bridges kick all kinds of ass.


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## spudmunkey

jwade said:


> I made it through less than 1 minute of the video before closing the tab. So much b.s in his videos. "_I tried so many multi scales, and they just weren't comfortable._" The **** out of here with your used car salesman nonsense.



Seriously? What kind of representative of a company would say that they think their product isn't the best? A former one, that's what kind.

Before I bought my first customized guitar, I went to numerous stores and tried out every guitar I could to determine which frets and fretboard radius I liked best. I can imagine he made of point of trying out several (even if they had to make one-offs themselves) to try different combinations of scale range and neutral fret location.

I tried a 27" scale guitar, and this morning I tried my friend's Ibanez Multiscale for the first time.

The Ibanez solved the issues I had with the straight 27, but the nut was just a bit too angled. Ibanez decided to put the neutral fret at the 12th fret, which informs the nut's angle. By moving it back a few frets, the nut isn't angled as much and I can imagine it IS more comfortable....for ME and how *I* play, but completely understand that it might not fit everyone...but if it is for me, I can imagine it would be for others as well...I'm not *that* strange...


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## downburst82

technomancer said:


> You mean the same strategy the entire computer industry has used since it started?  Mainly because chip technology keeps getting pushed forward?
> 
> That said these look pretty cool but I really want to see what the bridge looks like. I have no idea why you would even introduce something like this before the hardware design is finalized...



Yes pretty much, I just figured apple was a good general example to use. Is it mainly because of advancing chip technology people need new iPhone every year now? Or is it marketing? 

I was just trying to say it makes sense from a business point of view to release a model...sell a bunch..and then improve it slightly and resell it again to people. Even to the point of delaying features/options you could implement immediately.

Not saying Carvin is necessarily doing this on purpose...but it probably will translate into alot more total sales that if they had just launched the Vader with a proper top and fanned frets.


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## Chokey Chicken

How stupid of me not to acknowledge that this is, in fact, the "advanced" warning. Yeah, I'm all on board now. Not gonna get one, since straight scales work more than fine for me, but I'm stoked for those who wanted one but were hesitant due to missing features.

Now watch the bridge end up as some form of multi scale trem.


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## mnemonic

downburst82 said:


> Yes pretty much, I just figured apple was a good general example to use. Is it mainly because of advancing chip technology people need new iPhone every year now? Or is it marketing?



Because all those android brands don't want you to buy a new phone if your current one is only a year old?


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## downburst82

mnemonic said:


> Because all those android brands don't want you to buy a new phone if your current one is only a year old?



.....no obviously they are all trying to do that. I was just tying to give a brand example, would you be happier if I just said smart phone manufacturers?

Anyways..obviously it was a bad example/comparison as people have missed the point I was trying to make twice..( what was my point?...did I have one?...lets just move on )

I'm glad Carvin is offering more an more options for people  I think its win-win for everyone really.


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## cubix

The Android brands are forcing you to buy a new phone by simply "forgetting" the old model exists and stopping the support and updates as soon as something new comes out... lol


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## Hollowway

Yeah, for me this is the advanced warning that they need to give. It's enough of a heads up that if you order a Vader today, you know you're not hanging around to see if a multi is coming out. 

I think the phone analogy is decent, but the different is that there's a defined cadence in place. If you buy a new phone when it's released, you know it's going to have a life of roughly a year before the next one is out. I think what catches people off guard here is that we have no idea what the cadence of product releases from Carvin is, so it's difficult to judge if there will be something cool right around the corner or not. It's a double edged sword really, since if you don't release anything new, you stagnate. I think the only solution here that would make everyone happy is to not say something is "impossible" or will never happen, and then turn around and do it.


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## spudmunkey

cubix said:


> The Android brands are forcing you to buy a new phone by simply "forgetting" the old model exists and stopping the support and updates as soon as something new comes out... lol


 
*cough* Nexus phones don't do that, traditionally, and now there are more models than ever to choose from *cough*.


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## Splinterhead

This is simply a great lesson in supply and demand. 
The demand is there. While Carvin aren't necessarily early adopters they seem to be paying attention to what people want in a guitar. This is a good thing. A lot of other guitar companies do the same thing. I think it would be easy to name quite a few. 
Its a great time to be a guitar player with all these cool innovations coming out!
I remember when it was about either getting a strat, a les paul or one of those pointy pink guitars.


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## laxu

*mod edit: ok can we keep this on topic and leave the smart phone industry for the computer section*

Anyway, it's pretty rare to see a guitar manufacturer actually go back and fix an issue in a guitar design and I'm glad they put in the effort to do it as it makes the Vader look more symmetrical. I kinda wish they had done a bit more at the nut end for the multiscale, for example having part of the neck wood show between the nut and the string anchor part.


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## Guamskyy

laxu said:


> Anyway, it's pretty rare to see a guitar manufacturer actually go back and fix an issue in a guitar design and I'm glad they put in the effort to do it as it makes the Vader look more symmetrical. I kinda wish they had done a bit more at the nut end for the multiscale, for example having part of the neck wood show between the nut and the string anchor part.



Just let your voice be heard with Kiesel, have a lot of people agree with you, and then the next generation of FF Vaders will have the specs you want


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## BigViolin

I can't think of a more elegant and simple solution to the end of the fingerboard and angled nut situation. It's functional, clean and looks fine to me. Maybe someone else is doing a better job of this and I just haven't noticed. I think the Strandbergs look cool at that end but have way too many pieces with the individual clamps, I much prefer the hipshot or jcustom headpiece.

What I'd like to see, and it will probably never happen is for D'addario or La Bella to offer custom length double ball strings for multi-scales. I'd definitely pay extra to ditch the set screws and have a truly one piece headpiece. Double ball strings are just such a superior design imo.


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## cubix

You can be more elegant with seperate string clamps, if the string clamp is one piece then it leaves no room for tweaks.


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## BigViolin

I think I get what you are saying, you can angle the area that the strings are clamped upon with the individual clamps negating the dead space between the nut and clamp? If so I still prefer what Hipshot is doing but maybe I'd need to see it on a Strandberg with the same scale and perpendicular fret location as the Vader. I think I'd still prefer less parts.

Do you think the bridge will be all individual saddles or saddles within a unified angled carrier? I can't wait to see how the Hipshot bridge will look and operate.


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## Jonathan20022

Placed an order for two Fanned Fret Vaders today, these announcements are insane. I was on the verge of buying an Ibanez Prestige 8, but the prices on these and what you can do make them far better IMO.

I don't see how people are complaining btw, they've released so many options and models since the revamp and the DC800/DC7X. It's been two years and they've developed that much, I'm sure they know they're not going to please everyone. And they shouldn't expect to.


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## laxu

This is kinda what I was talking about earlier:






Either just a finish, piece of wood matching top wood or part of the neck wood showing in the front. It hides the fanned fret and nut quite well I'd say.


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## narad

laxu said:


> This is kinda what I was talking about earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either just a finish, piece of wood matching top wood or part of the neck wood showing in the front. It hides the fanned fret and nut quite well I'd say.



What is that beautiful thing?


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## cubix

Le Fay bass


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## Jonathan20022

They revealed the bridge design, glad it's not a drastic change from what they had before.


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## marcwormjim

That top's a regular Rorschach.


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## mnemonic

Looks good, I like it. 

I wonder why the fan of the bridge baseplate is less than the fan of the guitar though? For instance, the bass saddles are quite far back, and the treble saddles quite far forward. Why not build the baseplate fan to match the guitar's fan?

At least the low B's saddle still appears to have room to move back further if needed, so I doubt it will be an issue.


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## narad

I like the bridge but this body shape just does not lend itself to the asymmetry of multiscale at all IMO.


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## cubix

Well that's just dissapointing... No individual saddles = not so good.


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## Jonathan20022

cubix said:


> Well that's just dissapointing... No individual saddles = not so good.



Doesn't make a difference to me, single saddles require a different method to ground the guitar. And if it means I can avoid a zero fret I will do it at all costs


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## feraledge

I think it looks solid.


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## Bdtunn

OAF and xen did this with their hipshot bridges a while back. They were only using the standard one with longer saddles.


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## cubix

Bridges like that are just flimsy, especially when those intonation screws are so long. All loose saddles do is eat your sustain (not always but alot of the time). And a properly done 0 fret is definately better, but noone seems to know how to do it lol  as for the ground - it's not that much different and I might be wrong but if there was a 0 fret doesn't it connect all strings and allow only one saddle ground? Anyways, the limited pickup choice due to the slant is the major downside for me anyways


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## xzacx

narad said:


> I like the bridge but this body shape just does not lend itself to the asymmetry of multiscale at all IMO.



Agreed. The reason the Strandberg design works so well is how wildly asymmetrical the body is, where the Vader looks "off" because the body is rather symmetrical. That said, if you'd never seen the Boden design, this might look perfectly fine. But on the other hand, this might not exist if it wasn't for the Boden's success.


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## BigViolin

I wonder what the intonation range is in regard to string gauge. Like if it will handle the extremes of say a 8-54 set or something like 12-68. 

I'm different than many folks in that I like a little more material to rest my hand on so I'm liking this, but I totally understand why folks want the streamlined setup of individual saddles. This looks great to me so far and can see putting an order in after I move a few things. In a lot of ways this is the guitar I've been waiting for.


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## Alberto7

mnemonic said:


> Looks good, I like it.
> 
> I wonder why the fan of the bridge baseplate is less than the fan of the guitar though? For instance, the bass saddles are quite far back, and the treble saddles quite far forward. Why not build the baseplate fan to match the guitar's fan?
> 
> At least the low B's saddle still appears to have room to move back further if needed, so I doubt it will be an issue.



My guess is that it is just a standard base plate that they use for several different fan ranges, so that it's cheaper to manufacture (standardized mass-manufacturing, instead of custom building a base plate just for the Carvin Vaders)


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## mnemonic

cubix said:


> I might be wrong but if there was a 0 fret doesn't it connect all strings and allow only one saddle ground?



There's already a metal block at the 'headstock' holding the strings, so technically you'd only need to ground one saddle with the current design if they went the single saddles route.



Alberto7 said:


> My guess is that it is just a standard base plate that they use for several different fan ranges, so that it's cheaper to manufacture (standardized mass-manufacturing, instead of custom building a base plate just for the Carvin Vaders)



Ah, that makes sense. I hadn't considered that they're custom machined special for the vader, they will probably pop up on the hipshot website. 

Carvin has all these Cnc machines, I wonder why they didn't design their own?


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## Petar Bogdanov

mnemonic said:


> Carvin has all these Cnc machines, I wonder why they didn't design their own?



Because metal has different requirements than wood. Locating the work, the cutters, precision, everything is different.

But mostly because they can say it has a HIPSHOT BRIDGE.


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## dmlinger

Petar Bogdanov said:


> Because metal has different requirements than wood. Locating the work, the cutters, precision, everything is different.
> 
> But mostly because they can say it has a HIPSHOT BRIDGE.



For that reason and because it cost way less to outsource it to another vendor that specializes in hardware. It would be a tremendous cost to design, test, re-design, re-test, tool up to manufacture these in house. The ROI on doing it in house would probably take forever. I'm guessing tens of thousands (maybe hundreds) of units sold.


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## Brody

BigViolin said:


> I wonder what the intonation range is in regard to string gauge. Like if it will handle the extremes of say a 8-54 set or something like 12-68.
> 
> I'm different than many folks in that I like a little more material to rest my hand on so I'm liking this, but I totally understand why folks want the streamlined setup of individual saddles. This looks great to me so far and can see putting an order in after I move a few things. In a lot of ways this is the guitar I've been waiting for.



I have a V7 tuned to drop F# with 11-74 and perfect intonation on my analog strobe tuner. I don't know why people are flipping out about about this bridge. I have one of the earliest model Vaders and I have had absolutely no problem with it.

edit: just realized that we are talking about the FF. I have no experience.


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## SnowfaLL

Surprised no thread yet; Vader with tremolo just announced for 6, 7 and 8s. No multiscale planned though.

$50 extra ontop of normal vader for limited time. $200 ontop of HH models.


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## Guamskyy

SnowfaLL said:


> Surprised no thread yet; Vader with tremolo just announced for 6, 7 and 8s. No multiscale planned though.
> 
> $50 extra ontop of normal vader for limited time. $200 ontop of HH models.



Thread was made the day it was announced:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=318025


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## SnowfaLL

Guamskyy said:


> Thread was made the day it was announced:
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=318025



I made that thread.. an hour after I posted in this thread.


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## Guamskyy

SnowfaLL said:


> I made that thread.. an hour after I posted in this thread.



Haha my bad, I saw that thread first before this one


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