# Graphite reinforcements



## feraledge (Aug 13, 2013)

So I was stoked to see Jackson adding graphite reinforcement in the necks on their X and Pro Series. My first round SLXT had a seriously weak neck and seeing that they added the graphite in later X Series made me think that they were aware of the problem. Although my SDX is a later X Series, does not have graphite and I haven't had any problems with the neck being straight. My Pros have them and they are great, but their higher end guitars with, I would hope, better neck woods. 
The graphite seems to be holding strong in my two Pro Series. 
But now I'm curious because I see they're putting the graphite in the new JS series and it raises a few questions for me. If anyone here has knowledge about the production and materials, feel free to chime in:
- If graphite reinforcement is as strong as they make it sound, why isn't it used more widely? 
-Is graphite reinforcement as strong as they make it sound? 
-Does it seem more likely that graphite will be used to bolster cheaper/weaker woods for the necks? 
I think all of the Jackson necks in question are maple, but could easily be lesser maple. 
Thanks!


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 13, 2013)

It's 90% buzz and hype, the use of things like Titanium and Graphite neck reinforcement rods. Making the neck stiffer isn't exactly a good thing. You want your guitar necks to have a good degree of flex, so that the truss rod can easily do its job of setting proper neck relief. 

Necks shouldn't be 100% straight, you want a little relief to get ideal action across the whole fretboard. We're not talking huge amounts of bow, but just enough. It's often highly overlooked in setups done by non-Techs. 

It hasn't shown to add any more lifespan to the neck either, at least any more so than a piece of properly cut and dried hardwood. 

They're not bad, the fancy reinforcements, but they're not really going to make a significant difference like the marketing used implies.


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## Benjamin Millar (Aug 13, 2013)

I suppose they mean graphite as a synonym to carbon fiber. It is a very stiff material with a ludicrous stiffness to weight ratio (not as stiff as steel, but much, much lighter in weight).
When used sparingly in tandem with a truss rod it does a great job in making a "soft" neck (Mahogany for instance) into a fairly stiff one without adding a lot of weight. In a laminate neck made of heavy hardwoods it will probably be a bit overkill as the neck is stiff enough as it is.
Vigier Makes CF reinforced necks with no adjustable truss rod, and they make it stiff enough not to deflect under string tension. They play great!

As to CF reinforcements reaching lower end models, I don't think that's likely in the near future. For one it requires a few more steps in the manufacturing process, but more importantly, It's a modern feature that is still perceived as a novelty. "extra" features like these are what companies add to a product line in order to distinguish the lower end from the higher end, or to help label themselves as a high end company. It's too still valuable (psychologically) to be cheap for the consumer.


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## feraledge (Aug 13, 2013)

Benjamin Millar said:


> As to CF reinforcements reaching lower end models, I don't think that's likely in the near future. For one it requires a few more steps in the manufacturing process, but more importantly, It's a modern feature that is still perceived as a novelty. "extra" features like these are what companies add to a product line in order to distinguish the lower end from the higher end, or to help label themselves as a high end company. It's too still valuable (psychologically) to be cheap for the consumer.



Jackson is actually doing graphite reinforcements in their necks on the new JS series. That's what really raised the question for me. 



> JS Series guitars now take an epic leap forward, making it easier than ever to get classic Jackson features, tone, looks and playability without breaking the bank. Upgraded features such as striking aesthetics, new custom-voiced high-output ceramic-magnet pickups, graphite-reinforced maple necks, bound fingerboards and headstocks, and black hardware deliver more for less.


Jackson® Products


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## feraledge (Aug 13, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's 90% buzz and hype, the use of things like Titanium and Graphite neck reinforcement rods. Making the neck stiffer isn't exactly a good thing. You want your guitar necks to have a good degree of flex, so that the truss rod can easily do its job of setting proper neck relief.
> 
> Necks shouldn't be 100% straight, you want a little relief to get ideal action across the whole fretboard. We're not talking huge amounts of bow, but just enough. It's often highly overlooked in setups done by non-Techs.



Stiffer was the wrong word. From what I've seen, they seem a bit less effected by changes in humidity. So a little hardier if you get what I'm saying.
And by straight I meant playable, not literally 100% straight.




> It hasn't shown to add any more lifespan to the neck either, at least any more so than a piece of properly cut and dried hardwood.



Which gets to my other question, is this a shortcut for wood that hasn't been processed and treated properly?


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## Benjamin Millar (Aug 13, 2013)

feraledge said:


> Jackson is actually doing graphite reinforcements in their necks on the new JS series. That's what really raised the question for me.
> 
> 
> Jackson® Products



Missed that in your post. Maybe the time for CF for all is upon us... .
Anyway, the fact that it caught your attention suggests that it is a selling point which upgrades the perceived value of an instrument.

Also, keep in mind that not all CF rods were created equal. different resins, fiber thickness and density, fiber to resin ratio and failure rate under load (irrelevant for guitar string tension, but still...). also the channel routing tolerance- how snugly the reinforcements fit, or how much excess of (potentially vibration damping) resin there is in sloppy gaps in the neck, etc.
In short, as everything else in manufacturing, it can be done properly, horribly and anywhere in between.


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## Benjamin Millar (Aug 13, 2013)

feraledge said:


> Stiffer was the wrong word. From what I've seen, they seem a bit less effected by changes in humidity. So a little hardier if you get what I'm saying.



That's because unlike wood, CF is not hygroscopic and is unaffected by changes in relative humidity.


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## feraledge (Aug 13, 2013)

Benjamin Millar said:


> That's because unlike wood, CF is not hygroscopic and is unaffected by changes in relative humidity.



Where I live (northeastern US), anything that reduces the effects of humidity is welcome.


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## feraledge (Aug 13, 2013)

Benjamin Millar said:


> Missed that in your post. Maybe the time for CF for all is upon us... .
> Anyway, the fact that it caught your attention suggests that it is a selling point which upgrades the perceived value of an instrument.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that not all CF rods were created equal. different resins, fiber thickness and density, fiber to resin ratio and failure rate under load (irrelevant for guitar string tension, but still...). also the channel routing tolerance- how snugly the reinforcements fit, or how much excess of (potentially vibration damping) resin there is in sloppy gaps in the neck, etc.
> In short, as everything else in manufacturing, it can be done properly, horribly and anywhere in between.



The latter part isn't going unnoticed. I've seen some QC issues with low end guitars and I'm not sure that I'd trust a lot more room for error when it's going to be hidden by a fretboard and a benefit that's blindly being asserted. 
I trust that the CF in my Jackson Pro Series are done with more careful crafting than I'd expect on a JS Series. 
I'll say this much, at the end of the day, the graphite reinforcement isn't selling me on the JS Series, no one is really selling higher quality for less these days. Corners get cut, marketers market. But the inclusion of CF reinforcements in the lower end models makes me question the weakness of the woods and the effectiveness of the CF. That's really what I'm getting at here.


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## Suitable (Aug 13, 2013)

My Jackson Soloist Pro Series SL2Q had Graphite reinforcements in the neck. The neck was "stiff" because of it but the headstock showed that the neck was made from "cheap" maple (it felt and flexed like radiata pine), since the graphite stopped at the nut (well I think it did?) the poor quality timber showed at the headstock as there was none whiched bowed/flexed 5mm from e to E under string tension making that pointy straight headstock a banana. Jacksons use of graphite in their necks is so they can use poor quality maple, since many (not I) didnt notice the poor quality in the pro series they're going to use it and poor quality maple in the rest of their non USA made guitars. 

Have a look at the USA series, they're all made with "rock hard maple" and no graphite, anything non USA is just maple with graphite reinforcement. It's cheaper for them to use lesser quality maple and install graphite rods than just using good quality maple which isn't that expensive but each dollar adds up over a few thousand plus guitars and the price of indonesian labor (around $5 a day per person...)


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