# Old 2 Channel vs. New 3 channel Dual Rectifier Head



## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 10, 2008)

I just got an old Dual rectifier head with only 2 channels. I was just wondering if it would be worth selling the head (which I could make a decent profit off of) and buying a newer 3 channel dual rectifier.

Or is it worth my while to keep the older Dual? I don't know a lot about older amps. I've heard people say the older HiWatt heads sound better than the new ones, and so on. Just wondered if this was the case with Mesa as well.


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## Zepp88 (Apr 10, 2008)

I have the older 2 channel version, a lot of guys say they sound better than the 3 channels, but I've never actually A/B'd them personally. 

That said, I love the sound of mine, and if I would recommend a new Rectifier to you I'd recommend the Roadster, it seems to have close to the "2 channel" sound with much better cleans.


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## Drew (Apr 10, 2008)

How low is the serial number? The first 500 or so are evidently very different sounding amps - horrid clean, but with a distortion sound that's supposed to be a bit more lead friendly. 

A later twoo-channel, though, really there's no difference. The 2nd channel on a three channel is supposed to be identical, while the 3rd has a more agressive presence curve. A lot of the perceived "differences" I suspect are due to people clicking over to Channel 3 and trying settings from their 2-channel's second channel, and thinking, "Hmm, this doesn't sound the same." 

If you can come out ahead on the deal, then you might as well, just for the added flexibility a third more agressive channel provides.


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## thadood (Apr 10, 2008)

Every pre-1996 Dual I've played has had a lovely tone to it, and was extremely easy to squeeze a usable sound out of them within moments. I actually have to fiddle with newer Duals for a little bit before I find a tone I'm happy with.

I'm pretty certain the difference is due to a different transformer they were using before 1996. At least that's what I've been told. It's probably not even true, but there's a definite difference in tone.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh no, here comes the Mesa flame war...oh, wait, I'm not at Grail Tones. 

Throw those early (pre-500) amps out of the equation, since they were different beasts. Not just different from the current amps, but different from each other. They went through about three board revisions during that run. They were aimed at a different type of player, and the amps become much more agressive as metal changed through the nineties.

There are differences between the two and three channels, but they are a lot more subtle than people think. The third channel is what makes the newer amps really sound different. The first two channels can be made to sound almost identical to the old ones with the right eq settings. Tubes are going to make more of a difference than how many channels your amp has. I think the much bemoaned "Recto fizz" comes from guys who never get a chance to open up their amps. Trust me, once you sweep past ten or eleven o'clock on the master volume, that sound is _gone_.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about Duals. The two channel Triples are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the modern three channel Triples.

The Roadster is the oddball in the group. It is much darker, and has less of the upper midrange grind than the three channels.


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## Zepp88 (Apr 11, 2008)

noodles said:


> Oh no, here comes the Mesa flame war...oh, wait, I'm not at Grail Tones.



Just give me your Roadster.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 11, 2008)

LOLz. I wouldn't mind a roadster. I've only got the dual rec and XXX. I have nothing with a decent clean channel. NOTHING!!! I don't wanna have to buy a third amp to run my cleans. My thing is i don't wanna buy something just because it looks impressive. I'll keep what i have as long as i'm not missing out on something.


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## Zepp88 (Apr 11, 2008)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> LOLz. I wouldn't mind a roadster. I've only got the dual rec and XXX. I have nothing with a decent clean channel. NOTHING!!! I don't wanna have to buy a third amp to run my cleans. My thing is i don't wanna buy something just because it looks impressive. I'll keep what i have as long as i'm not missing out on something.



Is having good cleans important to you?


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> LOLz. I wouldn't mind a roadster. I've only got the dual rec and XXX. I have nothing with a decent clean channel. NOTHING!!! I don't wanna have to buy a third amp to run my cleans. My thing is i don't wanna buy something just because it looks impressive. I'll keep what i have as long as i'm not missing out on something.



Honestly, you should just sell both and buy a Roadster. They are the one modern amp that will seem the closest to what you are used to, and with four channels full of different modes, you are not going to need a XXX. It will do everything you are doing now, better, plus more. I cannot say enough how completely happy I am with this amp, and I owned a Tremoverb and a XXX.


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## Zepp88 (Apr 11, 2008)

noodles said:


> Honestly, you should just sell both and buy a Roadster. They are the one modern amp that will seem the closest to what you are used to, and with four channels full of different modes, you are not going to need a XXX. It will do everything you are doing now, better, plus more. I cannot say enough how completely happy I am with this amp, and I owned a Tremoverb and a XXX.



And that's where I was hinting to. 

Seriously if I had the cash that's what I'd be doing.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> Seriously if I had the cash that's what I'd be doing.



Yeah, that is the drawback. They aren't cheap, and they're so new that you're not going to find that many used.


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## Zepp88 (Apr 11, 2008)

noodles said:


> Yeah, that is the drawback. They aren't cheap, and they're so new that you're not going to find that many used.



Yep, sad but true. 

I'm not buying anything else though until I hear my buddys spidervalve head in action and try it with my Vader, I wanna put it head to head with my Recto and see how it fares


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 11, 2008)

If i'm lucky i might be able to get $800 for my XXX. and possibly another $1200 for the DR (maybe). that's about what it'd cost for a used roadster by my estimates.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh, I see you're up in Canada. I forget that they're more expensive up there. 

How much does a new Dual go for? That will give me an idea of what your prices are.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 11, 2008)

I honestly don't know. I see used duals selling on craigslist and kijiji for anywhere from 1300-1600. beyond that i have no idea. i think the list was over $2000 for a new one the last time i was in a store that sold them (2 years ago) but that's not horribly accurate as i could easily been a triple due to my n00bness.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Well, a triple is about $1600 in the states IIRC, but with the weak dollar, it may have dropped since you last checked.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 11, 2008)

all this talk of a roadster is making me seriously consider buying one. since i'll probably be able to afford it if i can flip my dual and the XXX. having a decent clean channel is always good too. since my style isn't necessarily limited to hi-gain metal.


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## Brord (Apr 11, 2008)

noodles said:


> Keep in mind, I'm talking about Duals. The two channel Triples are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the modern three channel Triples.



As a 2 channel triple rect. owner I am quite curious about these differences. Would u mind explaining the differences and tell some more about it?


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## Benzesp (Apr 11, 2008)

As a former owner of a 95' recto all I have to say is the newer ones sound diffrent. I know they had to have changed some things up as far as voicing is concerned or it just might be altenate sourcing of componenets for mass production. For better or worse. They sell a lot of them now (Guitar Center) compared to 1995 where only one shop in town was an autorized Boogie dealer and even then you had to special order. If I was in the market for a DR I would be looking used 2 Channel 95' and older, but thats just my opinion. This is by no means a "flame" but I think there is some truth to this.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 11, 2008)

The serial on mine is R-013582

what does this mean to you guys?


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## Drew (Apr 11, 2008)

I think R-0500 or below is the range we were talking about, you might want to confirm this with someone in the know but my understanding is they're numbered sequentially, with R-0001 being the first. Siggy around here has R-0005, IIRC.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Brord said:


> As a 2 channel triple rect. owner I am quite curious about these differences. Would u mind explaining the differences and tell some more about it?



I didn't have that much time on one, but I remember every single thing about it being different. The low end was flubby, the lower mids are boomy, and there is no clarity. I really didn't like that amp at all. While there is fierce debate over the 2ch vs 3ch Duals, most people don't like 2ch Triples. It made no sense why 50w more headroom should make the bass less tight, but that was my experience, and I've talked to plenty of people who feel the same.


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## noodles (Apr 11, 2008)

Benzesp said:


> As a former owner of a 95' recto all I have to say is the newer ones sound diffrent. I know they had to have changed some things up as far as voicing is concerned or it just might be altenate sourcing of componenets for mass production.



I wouldn't say it is components at all, since to this very day, Mesa still insists on high quality, American made parts. Looking inside of a modern Mesa is like looking into a piece of expensive A/V gear. Much more likely is the moving of components around on the circuit board, as well as the extra electronics required to make the amp three channels.

Audio electronics is more of an art than a science. It takes a master to be able to predict how moving certain things in and out of proximity to other things will change the sound. Think of the differences between the head and rackmount 2ch Duals. They just sound different, and that is because the rack amp is spread across three circuit boards in a shorter chassis, while the head is all contained on one. Same circuit, same components, different amp.

Still, as I always stress, we are talking about minor differences, like the variations in the same distillery's whiskey from year to year. Once they settled on the specific circuit design sometime in the 500-1000 range, it has pretty much remained unchanged. Since you have a '95, you probably have an early amp based on a different board. I would not be surprised that you feel the way you do, since your amp is probably more Soldano-like.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Apr 11, 2008)

For those who were wondering new Roadsters go for 2,200-2,400 in Canada...


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## budda (Apr 11, 2008)

and a dual rec is $1900? i forget, i checked into them in december.

london ontario, eh? wanna jam?


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## PirateMetalTroy (Apr 12, 2008)

JAM?!?!?! HELL YEAH!!!


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## budda (Apr 12, 2008)

PM me, sir! im outta this city at the end of april, but i will have some time before and after exams perhaps haha

i havent gotten to jam w/ a recto yet


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