# How to Make Amp Sims Sound Better



## viifox (Feb 26, 2020)

I've got my guitar going straight into my Focusrite 2i4 interface, and have the Fortin NT pulled up. No matter what i do, and this goes for any amp sim, the sound is absolute shit. Harsh, ear splitting, and unpleasant compressed frequencies is all can coax out of these things. What am i doing wrong?


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## Jeffrey Bain (Feb 26, 2020)

Following for my own interest. I had a 2i2 and I couldn't get it to not have unplayable latency, sound wasn't top notch either.


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## viifox (Feb 26, 2020)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> Following for my own interest. I had a 2i2 and I couldn't get it to not have unplayable latency, sound wasn't top notch either.


Latency is fine for me, but yeah, I'm wondering if it's the interface that's the causing the main issue.


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## Kobalt (Feb 26, 2020)

The first question would be, is the problem specific to the Fortin plugin or all app sims?

Can you record what's going on? Maybe that could give us an idea.


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## viifox (Feb 26, 2020)

Kobalt said:


> The first question would be, is the problem specific to the Fortin plugin or all app sims?
> 
> Can you record what's going on? Maybe that could give us an idea.


All amp sims, though the Fortin ones do sound the best. 

I'll try to get something posted tonight.


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## Masoo2 (Feb 26, 2020)

Have you spent any time with the plugins in a DAW?

Try making a complete mixing chain behind the amp plugin just as you would with a real amp+cab, I tend to find it helps a ton with removing the negative qualities of amp sims.

My example chain is: Overloud TH3 (which already has some EQ/compression going on inside) > Multiband Compression > POD Farm American Classic Preamp (it's free with the featureless version of POD Farm, fantastic little toneshaper which smooths it out while adding some pleasant top end) > Waves NLS (further smooths it out) > Basic EQ > Room Reverb


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## viifox (Feb 26, 2020)

Masoo2 said:


> Have you spent any time with the plugins in a DAW?
> 
> Try making a complete mixing chain behind the amp plugin just as you would with a real amp+cab, I tend to find it helps a ton with removing the negative qualities of amp sims.
> 
> My example chain is: Overloud TH3 (which already has some EQ/compression going on inside) > Multiband Compression > POD Farm American Classic Preamp (it's free with the featureless version of POD Farm, fantastic little toneshaper which smooths it out while adding some pleasant top end) > Waves NLS (further smooths it out) > Basic EQ > Room Reverb


I actually haven't tried any of that. Thank you for the tip!


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## Sylim (Feb 27, 2020)

in my experience the Scarlett interfaces have a terrible DI quality. very nasty and quacky upper mids, very rolled off top end, mushy low end. imagine sending that through distortion of an amp sim. it´s not gonna sound good now matter what. i´d recommend trying a DI box. or get a better interface.


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## viifox (Feb 27, 2020)

Sylim said:


> in my experience the Scarlett interfaces have a terrible DI quality. very nasty and quacky upper mids, very rolled off top end, mushy low end. imagine sending that through distortion of an amp sim. it´s not gonna sound good now matter what. i´d recommend trying a DI box. or get a better interface.


Thanks for your feedback. What DI box do you recommend?


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## Drew (Feb 27, 2020)

Also, just ruling out the obvious.... Are you using any sort of speaker emulator/IR along with the amp sim, or is it an amp sim alone, with no speaker emulation?


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## tedtan (Feb 27, 2020)

Drew said:


> Also, just ruling out the obvious.... Are you using any sort of speaker emulator/IR along with the amp sim, or is it an amp sim alone, with no speaker emulation?



This was my first thought when I read the OP, too.

Even if the amp sim has speaker emulation, I've found that IRs sound MUCH better than emulation, though even they will sound like a mic'ed up amp, not like the amp in the room.


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## Snarpaasi (Feb 27, 2020)

Masoo2 said:


> Have you spent any time with the plugins in a DAW?
> 
> Try making a complete mixing chain behind the amp plugin just as you would with a real amp+cab, I tend to find it helps a ton with removing the negative qualities of amp sims.
> 
> My example chain is: Overloud TH3 (which already has some EQ/compression going on inside) > Multiband Compression > POD Farm American Classic Preamp (it's free with the featureless version of POD Farm, fantastic little toneshaper which smooths it out while adding some pleasant top end) > Waves NLS (further smooths it out) > Basic EQ > Room Reverb



Any free multiband compressors youd suggest? What they do exactly? I'm using Nameless with DAW's graphical EQ which works well but im interested to shape my tone even better. 

For OP, I agree that without additional EQ the tone is unbearably bright and harsh.


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## Metropolis (Feb 27, 2020)

Snarpaasi said:


> Any free multiband compressors youd suggest? What they do exactly? I'm using Nameless with DAW's graphical EQ which works well but im interested to shape my tone even better.
> 
> For OP, I agree that without additional EQ the tone is unbearably bright and harsh.



This or Reaper's ReaXcomp https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/

You can compress a certain frequency without compressing the whole frequency spectrum. With hi-gain guitars it's mostly used in between 80-300hz, because those frequencies kind of bounce and pop out too much when doing heavy palm mutes with low strings. It's the old "Andy Sneap trick".


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## pipelineaudio (Feb 28, 2020)

Its definitely not the brand and model of interface, it actually tests quite well. Can you post a clip of just the DI? Somewhere that is downloadable


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## Snarpaasi (Feb 28, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> This or Reaper's ReaXcomp https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/
> 
> You can compress a certain frequency without compressing the whole frequency spectrum. With hi-gain guitars it's mostly used in between 80-300hz, because those frequencies kind of bounce and pop out too much when doing heavy palm mutes with low strings. It's the old "Andy Sneap trick".




Thanks. I've been having this problem to some extent when tracking a Monuments cover and I've just rolled off bass which makes the tone more sterile. Where should it be in the fx chain? Thanks a lot!


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

Maybe post an example of sound you would like to achieve vs what you achieved so far? I would be interested in hearing examples, even if it is just of what you recorded. These discussions are tricky because everyone has different perceptions and goals, plus different ways of describing everything (sound-wise)


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## Adieu (Feb 28, 2020)

Metropolis said:


> This or Reaper's ReaXcomp https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/
> 
> You can compress a certain frequency without compressing the whole frequency spectrum. With hi-gain guitars it's mostly used in between 80-300hz, because those frequencies kind of bounce and pop out too much when doing heavy palm mutes with low strings. It's the old "Andy Sneap trick".




Sooo nostalgic

Sounds just like my old 56k modem dialing up to get me some grainy 90s pron back in the day


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## Korneo (Feb 28, 2020)

Sylim said:


> in my experience the Scarlett interfaces have a terrible DI quality. very nasty and quacky upper mids, very rolled off top end, mushy low end. imagine sending that through distortion of an amp sim. it´s not gonna sound good now matter what. i´d recommend trying a DI box. or get a better interface.


I have this kind of issue with my own interface (Not a focusrite). The sound always lacks some highs, some clarity and lows seems blurry for a lack of a better words.
I've buy a Neve RNDI which cost twice the price of the interface and the problem is still here.
I think the problem can come from the converter or stuff like this unfortunately.


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## Metropolis (Feb 28, 2020)

Snarpaasi said:


> Thanks. I've been having this problem to some extent when tracking a Monuments cover and I've just rolled off bass which makes the tone more sterile. Where should it be in the fx chain? Thanks a lot!



Very last if there is no other limiters or compressors.

I'm waiting if op can get a recording what's going on in there.


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## nickgray (Feb 28, 2020)

Download a bunch of DIs and compare the tone to your own, pay attention to the high frequency range. If your HI-Z input sucks, you'll notice that your DIs lack in the high frequencies a bit. It's something that I have with my own interface as well. To combat this - just run a buffered pedal straight into the line level input, a pedal buffer converts the HI-Z guitar signal to a line level. If the signal is too low or if you're clipping the input, if your interface allows you to change between the -10dbv and +4dbu sensitivities for the line in - do just that. I was running a Boss CS3 into the line in at -10dbv, and now I got a new Polytune with the Bonafide buffer, it outputs a +4dbv signal (it clips the -10dbv input).

With regards to latency - google "Oblique RTL utility" and do multiple checks of RTL (roundtrip latency) at different sample rates and buffer sizes. This way you'll know for sure what the real latency is (driver reported latency can be wrong) and understand exactly what your sensitivity to latency is. Personally, I notice even 7-8ms latency with speakers. With headphones it seems to be mostly okay though. The speed of sound is about 343 m/s, converting to ms gives you 0.343 m/ms. So if your speakers are 1m away from you, that's an extra 3ms of latency, and I reckon that latency works in the "a straw that broke the camel's back" sort of way. 6-7ms seems fine for me through headphones, but 7-8ms with those 3ms added for the speaker distance add up to 10-11ms, seems like those 3ms are that straw for me.

Make sure that none of your plugins are adding any latency, some features like a lookahead in compressors or linear phase in EQs will introduce latency.

Follow the general rule of "garbage in == garbage out". For some reason people tend to think that there's some kind of magical studio post processing that turns shit into candy, but that is not the case at all. Load up a frequency analyzer and crank up the FFT window so that you can see tons of frequencies going on at once. Note how they all go up and down and behave in a very complex kind of manner. An EQ is essentially a crappy amplifier for frequencies, you can only affect the amplitude of the frequency range, not its inherent content, just try messing with an EQ while the frequency analyzer is on to see for yourself.

So in other words, your Guitar -> Amp -> IR rig should sound as good and as close to how you want it to sound as you possibly can.

With all that being said, I also have never really gotten a truly satisfactory tone out of the plugins. Probably my chief complaint are the highs - real amps recorded with mics seem to have those sparkling, complex highs, but with plugins they're kinda more like a shitty sizzle. If you're more into the modern mid-heavy tones with high cuts at 6khz this might not be an issue though. The grain character in the distortion is never quite right either. I could also never dial that roaring, evil kind of high gain that melts your face off.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

Drew said:


> Also, just ruling out the obvious.... Are you using any sort of speaker emulator/IR along with the amp sim, or is it an amp sim alone, with no speaker emulation?


No cab IR. Just the amp.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

Alright, here's a quick clip. One is isolated, while other is in a mix for reference. Both sound like shite!


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## GunpointMetal (Feb 28, 2020)

I mean, that's not the WORST tone I've ever heard. I'm assuming when you say no cab sim, you mean nothing outside of whats in the plugin, because that clip doesn't sound like a straight preamp tone. Unless you're EQ'ing the everyloving fuck out of it. But if you really have NO cab sim in place, that's most like the issue. An amp sim with no cab after it is gonna sound like plugging a distortion pedal straight into a PA and you're going to have to drastically cut high end, hard mids, and flubby low end to even get close. A decent cab sim does most of that work on its own, leaving the EQ more for fitting into the mix versus "fixing" the guitar tone.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

GunpointMetal said:


> I mean, that's not the WORST tone I've ever heard. I'm assuming when you say no cab sim, you mean nothing outside of whats in the plugin, because that clip doesn't sound like a straight preamp tone. Unless you're EQ'ing the everyloving fuck out of it. But if you really have NO cab sim in place, that's most like the issue. An amp sim with no cab after it is gonna sound like plugging a distortion pedal straight into a PA and you're going to have to drastically cut high end, hard mids, and flubby low end to even get close. A decent cab sim does most of that work on its own, leaving the EQ more for fitting into the mix versus "fixing" the guitar tone.


Yes, exactly. It's just guitar-interface-Fortin plugin, so whichever stock settings comes woth the Fortin plugin. I think the only eq i did was remove some of the low end.

You think a cab sim will remedy this?


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## efiltsohg (Feb 28, 2020)

tbh sounds better than most amp sims I've heard


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

efiltsohg said:


> tbh sounds better than most amp sims I've heard


Really? Damn, that sucks.


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## Element0s (Feb 28, 2020)

Yeah you definitely have some sort of built-in IR or cab sim in there, otherwise it would sound a bazillion times worse.

I don't think the tone you've shared is a bad starting point. But a great amp sim guitar tone starts with the cab sim or IR that gets to _closest_ to the tone that you're looking for. I'd say the IR is like 75% of your digital tone. Once you've got that nailed down then you can start fucking with the tone stack and post-processing to shape the tone a little more. 

The multiband compressor trick that people have been sharing is a great trick, but you should also experiment with some scooping in the 500-700 range. That's where the dumbass "honk" of a guitar is found. Grab that area and crank it up--you'll never unhear that frequency again. You'll lose a lot of volume if you cut too much out here so don't go crazy--you might have to boost the output a bit to make up any losses here.


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## HUGH JAYNUS (Feb 28, 2020)

As for latency, if you are using Logic X there is a setting to compensate for it and it is super effective in my experience


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## nickgray (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> Alright, here's a quick clip



It's really middy and lacking in highs, there's no punchy lows either. There's a lot of unnecessary reverb going on too. Can you upload just the DI somewhere?


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

HUGH JAYNUS said:


> As for latency, if you are using Logic X there is a setting to compensate for it and it is super effective in my experience


I'm not having an issue with latency. I think someone else was throwing that out there for some reason. Thanks though.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

nickgray said:


> It's really middy and lacking in highs, there's no punchy lows either. There's a lot of unnecessary reverb going on too. Can you upload just the DI somewhere?


Sure. The only thing i've adjusted in this clip is the gain. I had to turn it down a bit.


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## nickgray (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> Sure. The only thing i've adjusted in this clip is the gain



Dude, this sounds completely different from the previous example. This is actually pretty good sounding. Unlike the previous one, there's plenty of highs now and it doesn't sound all muffled.


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

I think it sounds realistic but as others mentioned no highs and no punch. Is there a tone you could share (video) as reference to what you are looking after?


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

nickgray said:


> Dude, this sounds completely different from the previous example. This is actually pretty good sounding. Unlike the previous one, there's plenty of highs now and it doesn't sound all muffled.


I think it does sound a little better. Thank you for your help!

Unfortunately, i still think it sounds very harsh and unpleasing. I feel like I'm just putting lipstick on a pig at this point.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

jbnuk said:


> I think it sounds realistic but as others mentioned no highs and no punch. Is there a tone you could share (video) as reference to what you are looking after?


I would love to achieve this tone, but i don't think it's gonna happen with a cheap interface and an amp sim.


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

jbnuk said:


> I think it sounds realistic but as others mentioned no highs and no punch. Is there a tone you could share (video) as reference to what you are looking after?


Sorry I was referring to the first clip. The last one sounds better as if you had removed the blanket covering the cab.


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> I would love to achieve this tone, but i don't think it's gonna happen with a cheap interface and an amp sim.




You are missing some low frequencies I guess around 120hz... Your sound to my ears is a lot thinner than your target. But I am not the best one to judge honestly when I record my tones are crap haha


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## nickgray (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> I would love to achieve this tone, but i don't think it's gonna happen with a cheap interface and an amp sim.



Don't forget that it's a mix, it has a very prominent bass with a clank that compliments the guitar, plus the drums. But yeah, I agree that the amp sims are limited.


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

Overall I would start with an IR to mimic the exact (or as close as possible) setup from the guy playing that PRS...that's 70% of your tone as someone else mentioned already.

Then I would suggest ensuring you have a guitar with pickups that put you in the same ballpark as his... Only then I would tweak the amp knobs


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

So should i look into cab sims, or does the built in one sound good enough?


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> So should i look into cab sims, or does the built in one sound good enough?



It sounds good but I am afraid it might not be giving you the sound you want. You should try an IR with mic / speaker setup as close to the one that the guy has in that prs video.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

Alright, what do you guys think of this in the mix? The only thing i did was turn down the treble and presence a little bit to remove some of the harshness.


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## nickgray (Feb 28, 2020)

viifox said:


> The only thing i did was turn down the treble and presence a little bit to remove some of the harshness



Which wasn't a good idea, it sounds muffled now. The tone you had in Test3 was fairly good, use that.

In any case, a far better advice is to have a couple of reference tracks handy, especially isolated guitars (and isolate just one channel as well). Compare to those, you'll get better results than doing a back-and-forth on a forum  Also, do you have good monitors? It's pretty weird that you felt the need to turn the treble down, the Test3 tone wasn't overly trebly really.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

nickgray said:


> Which wasn't a good idea, it sounds muffled now. The tone you had in Test3 was fairly good, use that.
> 
> In any case, a far better advice is to have a couple of reference tracks handy, especially isolated guitars (and isolate just one channel as well). Compare to those, you'll get better results than doing a back-and-forth on a forum  Also, do you have good monitors? It's pretty weird that you felt the need to turn the treble down, the Test3 tone wasn't overly trebly really.


Thanks for the tip. Yeah, my monitors are pretty solid, as are my headphones.

I guess I'm pretty sensitive to those higher frequencies.


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## jbnuk (Feb 28, 2020)

nickgray said:


> Which wasn't a good idea, it sounds muffled now. The tone you had in Test3 was fairly good, use that.
> 
> In any case, a far better advice is to have a couple of reference tracks handy, especially isolated guitars (and isolate just one channel as well). Compare to those, you'll get better results than doing a back-and-forth on a forum  Also, do you have good monitors? It's pretty weird that you felt the need to turn the treble down, the Test3 tone wasn't overly trebly really.



I agree. Test 3 had a great sound


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

Alright, here's "test 3" back in the mix.


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## viifox (Feb 28, 2020)

Anyway, i appreciate all the feedback. I'll spend some more time seeing if i can coax out something better. Thanks again for everyone's help!!!


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## Flappydoodle (Feb 29, 2020)

The 2i2 isn't the best interface ever, but it's good enough to get good results. It won't be your limiting factor, and spending £500 on a fancier one won't make that much difference.

About 70% of a digital amp sim tone comes from the IR/cab simulation

And maybe 15% from your guitar and 15% from how you dial in the amp section

Changing IR is the most drastic change you can make

So what you need to do is find a universally accepted "good" IR. Ownhammer has many. 

You're using Fortin NTS, right? Did you try any presets? Have you watched some Youtube demos and seen how they dial in the amp and cab section? It sounds fucking amazing. The NeuralDSP stuff is super accurate. There's a video switching between the Nameless Suite and the real Fortin Meshuggah amp, and it's basically identical.

There are a lot of settings in NTS, and you shouldn't be scared to move knobs all the way to 0 or all the way to 10.


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## viifox (Feb 29, 2020)

Flappydoodle said:


> The 2i2 isn't the best interface ever, but it's good enough to get good results. It won't be your limiting factor, and spending £500 on a fancier one won't make that much difference.
> 
> About 70% of a digital amp sim tone comes from the IR/cab simulation
> 
> ...


Haven't watched any videos or tried any presets. I'll definitely do that though. Thanks!


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## D-Nasty (Feb 29, 2020)

Watch these videos. Good tips on dialing in amp sims.


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## viifox (Feb 29, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> Watch these videos. Good tips on dialing in amp sims.



Awesome, thanks!


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Haven't watched any videos or tried any presets. I'll definitely do that though. Thanks!



No problem. I got the best results from NTS when putting stuff at really extreme settings. Like, you might want the grind at 10 so the sound cuts through more. 

Something like the Archetype Nolly is easier to dial in, because it's just a 5150. So you use standard settings and it sounds great. Check out the demo and see if that works better/easier for you than the NTS.


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## Kobalt (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Alright, here's a quick clip. One is isolated, while other is in a mix for reference. Both sound like shite!



Well, that sounded fine too me.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

Kobalt said:


> Well, that sounded fine too me.



I think he's being too self-conscious. It definitely doesn't sound like "shite". Actually, it sounds pretty damn good.


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Really? I honestly think it's one of the worst tones I've ever heard. My DOD effects processor from the 90's sounded better, lol!

Seriously though, I've been playing nothing but higher end tube amps for the last 6 years, so my ears just aren't used to this type of tone.

Maybe it's my shit playing.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Really? I honestly think it's one of the worse tones I've ever heard. My DOD effects processor from the 90's sounded better, lol!
> 
> Seriously though, I've been playing nothing but higher end tube amps for the last 6 years, so my ears just aren't used to this type of tone.



If you think that's one of the worst tones you've ever heard then you should hear some of the shit I've heard. You'd probably projectile vomit all over the place! 

Seriously, it sounds really good! It's not the best tone I've ever heard, but it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be!

If I had to say something negative, I'd say it's a bit dark. Did you use a Low Pass Filter? Try dialing in some highs to even it out. You've used a tasteful amount of gain & the way the tone "feels" is really good.


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> If you think that's one of the worst tones you've ever heard then you should hear some of the shit I've heard. You'd probably projectile vomit all over the place!
> 
> Seriously, it sounds really good! It's not the best tone I've ever heard, but it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be!
> 
> If I had to say something negative, I'd say it's a bit dark. Did you use a Low Pass Filter? Try dialing in some highs to even it out. You've used a tasteful amount of gain & the way the tone "feels" is really good.


Bahahaha!!!!!

The first clip is pretty dark, because i turned the treble and presence down a little. The last clip i posted is a bit brighter.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Bahahaha!!!!!
> 
> The first clip is pretty dark, because i turned the treble and presence down a little. The last clip i posted is a bit brighter.



What kind of tube amps have you been playing?


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> What kind of tube amps have you been playing?


Archon, Stealth, TC-100, Recto MW, Roadster etc.

Currently using a 5150 as my main amp right now though. Not high end, but definitely capable of some insanely good tones!


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Archon, TC-100, Recto MW, Roadster etc.
> 
> Currently using a 5150 as my main amp right now though. Not high end, but definitely capable of some insanely good tones!



My Mesa TR is a dark sounding amp. Maybe your ears have grown accustomed to that tone & you've become sensitive to the higher frequencies. I know that's happened to me.

I love the 5150s. They just sound like they're about to shred your face off. I've been wanting one for a while. I just let a FJA Mod 5150 II slip through my fingers! I waited too long! He only wanted $600! Ahhhh!


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> My Mesa TR is a dark sounding amp. Maybe your ears have grown accustomed to that tone & you've become sensitive to the higher frequencies. I know that's happened to me.
> 
> I love the 5150s. They just sound like they're about to shred your face off. I've been wanting one for a while. I just let a FJA Mod 5150 II slip through my fingers! I waited too long! He only wanted $600! Ahhhh!


That's quite possible! I have the presence on my 5150 almost all the way off, so who knows.

Dang, that is a good deal!


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## Kobalt (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> I think he's being too self-conscious. It definitely doesn't sound like "shite". Actually, it sounds pretty damn good.


Honestly, if I had $200 to spend on a plugin, I’d buy a Neutral DSP too, sounds pretty good.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

Kobalt said:


> Honestly, if I had $200 to spend on a plugin, I’d buy a Neutral DSP too, sounds pretty good.



I bought Nameless & NTS on Black Friday. Got both for $152.84 USD! They have a loyalty rewards program, so now I can get any of their other plugins for 20% off! I REALLY want that Omega Granophyre plugin. I did the 14 day trial & it's my favorite plugin they make.


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Here's the same clip, but with the Omega plugin. The only thing i adjusted was the gain. What do you guys think?


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Btw, if i was to persue this route, would it be beneficial to get a different interface or get a DI box, as well as a 3rd party cab sim?


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Here's the same clip, but with the Omega plugin. The only thing i adjusted was the gain. What do you guys think?




YES! That's what I'm talking about bro! Sounds killer!



viifox said:


> Btw, if i was to persue this route, would it be beneficial to get a different interface or get a DI box, as well as a 3rd party cab sim?



You can get some decent recordings with a Focusrite interface. I have a 2i2 & while not the best it gets the job done. Although, I recently upgraded to a MOTU M4 & it's so much better the Focusrite is just sitting on the shelf now.

I have a Countryman Type 85 DI Box & to be totally honest I don't hear any difference when I use it compared to plugging straight into the Hi-Z Input on my interface. I usually plug my guitar into a buffer & then into the interface though. I like the way it feels better.

As far as a 3rd party cab sim. You don't need one if you're using Neural DSP plugins. They have a cab sim built in. What you need is 3rd Party Impulse Responses if you want to experiment with different tones. I HIGHLY recommend you check out ML Sound Lab if you need impulses. They are the best IMO. https://ml-sound-lab.com/

If you want to try a 3rd party cab sim for some reason I suggest you look at Ignite Amps NadIR. It's free & it works great. Don't forget to grab the Emissary amp sim while you're there & all the other free boosts & OD's. They have an awesome Tube Power Amp & some other cool stuff. It's all free too. http://www.igniteamps.com/

After that head over to Mercuriall's website & click on the "Free Stuff" tab & grab they're Greed Smasher & TSC boosts. https://mercuriall.com/cms/details_freestuff

Snag a free copy of ReaPlugs & use their Gate & you're all set! https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Btw, if i was to persue this route, would it be beneficial to get a different interface or get a DI box, as well as a 3rd party cab sim?



Hey, I forgot to ask. Did you grab all the free plugins that came with your Focusrite interface? If not, you need to go get your Softube Time & Tone bundle. That thing is pure gold! The TSAR-1 Reverb & the Drawmer S73 Master Processor are amazing plugins. I can't believe they give those away for free.


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> YES! That's what I'm talking about bro! Sounds killer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude! Thanks so much for all that info/advice. It's sincerely appreciated!

Is the MOTU interface a huge step up in sound quality From the 2i2? If so, I'll totally pick one up. It's amazing how cheap this shit is these days, lol!


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> Hey, I forgot to ask. Did you grab all the free plugins that came with your Focusrite interface? If not, you need to go get your Softube Time & Tone bundle. That thing is pure gold! The TSAR-1 Reverb & the Drawmer S73 Master Processor are amazing plugins. I can't believe they give those away for free.


No, actually. I didn't even know they came with those. I'll check them out though!!!


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Dude! Thanks so much for all that info/advice. It's sincerely appreciated!
> 
> Is the MOTU interface a huge step up in sound quality? If so, I'll totally pick one up. It's amazing how cheap this shit is these days, lol!



I think the Scarlett & the MOTU can't even be compared. I'm getting 4.1ms roundtrip latency with the MOTU @ 48kHz. MOTU has some of the best drivers I've ever seen & they constantly update them. It's not as noisy as the Scarlett & it doesn't have that midrange hump. It's way more transparent. This is my first MOTU product & I'm more than happy with it.


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## viifox (Mar 1, 2020)

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> I think the Scarlett & the MOTU can't even be compared. I'm getting 4.1ms roundtrip latency with the MOTU @ 48kHz. MOTU has some of the best drivers I've ever seen & they constantly update them. It's not as noisy as the Scarlett & it doesn't have that midrange hump. It's way more transparent. This is my first MOTU product & I'm more than happy with it.


Awesome! I'll definitely pick one up then. Thanks a ton!


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> No, actually. I didn't even know they came with those. I'll check them out though!!!



Look for a code that came in the Focusrite box. I think it's a sticker on the inside of the box. Register your interface on their website & you can download all your free plugins. The Softube bundle uses iLok, but that shouldn't be a problem since you're using Neural DSP. There's also a Focusrite Red & Scarlett bundle that has a Gate, EQs, Compressors, etc.


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## D-Nasty (Mar 1, 2020)

viifox said:


> Awesome! I'll definitely pick one up then. Thanks a ton!



No problem!


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## Soundwoofer (Mar 4, 2020)

Multiband compression done right can do quite alot of help here.. but yeah getting a preamp or DI box going into the audio interface will help a lot too. Another thing you should investigate is the guitar/cable/pickups you are using, and even go as far to inspect your picking style. A trick i have found when it comes to certain amp sims also is how hot the actual signal in is going. Some sims require you to have hotter signal into the audio interface but roll off inside the actual sim, while others work with better headroom within the audio interface, and amp sim input increased. Just a tip!


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 6, 2020)

viifox said:


> Here's the same clip, but with the Omega plugin. The only thing i adjusted was the gain. What do you guys think?




Guitars sound pretty good. But guitars are never going to sound amazing with the plastic drums and lack of bass guitar. Put that tone onto a better drum mix and sound heavy bass and it will sound WAY better.


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## viifox (Mar 6, 2020)

Flappydoodle said:


> Guitars sound pretty good. But guitars are never going to sound amazing with the plastic drums and lack of bass guitar. Put that tone onto a better drum mix and sound heavy bass and it will sound WAY better.


Yeah, i never planned on keeping those drums in there. It was just a simple loop for reference.


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## viifox (Mar 6, 2020)

Flappydoodle said:


> Guitars sound pretty good. But guitars are never going to sound amazing with the plastic drums and lack of bass guitar. Put that tone onto a better drum mix and sound heavy bass and it will sound WAY better.


And define "plastic drums".


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## Flappydoodle (Mar 7, 2020)

viifox said:


> Yeah, i never planned on keeping those drums in there. It was just a simple loop for reference.



Gotcha.

But ever time I listen to an isolated guitar tone from a good album, I'm shocked by how thin and weedy it sounds. But once you have the right bass and drums, it can sound amazing.



viifox said:


> And define "plastic drums".



Haha, you know what I mean. Super sample and fake sounding.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 13, 2020)

It's pointless trying to tone shape your guitars in the absence of a bass track, as you'll find that what you think sounds good tone-wise will invariably falls flat on its sonic face if you try and eq it in isolation. That said, an amp sim is never really going to sound that great anyways despite whatever the flavor-of-the-month/ I just paid $150 for the bragging rights to this single amp sim suite-types I will go on about. What you can do to improve your tone though is to use as many analog components as possible like good quality stomp boxes and preamp pedals. Running something like that into as good an IR loader as you can afford will definitely help. I'd also recommend trying some Celestion IRs. The A-Types being my personal favorite for heavy rhythm work.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 16, 2020)

Recently upgraded my interface, and that made a big sonic difference as well.


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## Korneo (Mar 17, 2020)

Really ? What's your previous interface and the new one ? Tell us more about the difference please.


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## trem licking (Mar 17, 2020)

I run old firepods with the onboard instrument input and it sounds awesome... Curious as well. Maybe my ears suck haha


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## Geraldo7 (Mar 17, 2020)

Hi there,

i am curious as well. I have bought four (!) external soundcards and only one did work satisfactorily. This one: *Steinberg UR22 MKII USB Audio Interface*
(Fortunately i could return at least two of them via amazon.) I have wasted a lot of time and money here. I am pondering to buy the MOTU 2 or 4, but reviews are mixed concerning the drivers ...

I have the same problem as the OP. I have many of the Neural Plugins and while the DI tracks sound ok to me, the trax from the Neurals sound terribly fizzy and have a *lot *of noise.

@viifox --- your last file with the Omega sounds awesome, man, awesome! Well done.


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## viifox (Mar 17, 2020)

Geraldo7 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> i am curious as well. I have bought four (!) external soundcards and only one did work satisfactorily. This one: *Steinberg UR22 MKII USB Audio Interface*
> (Fortunately i could return at least two of them via amazon.) I have wasted a lot of time and money here. I am pondering to buy the MOTU 2 or 4, but reviews are mixed concerning the drivers ...
> ...


Thanks! That's basically the stock sound, so i can't take too much credit.


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## Geraldo7 (Mar 17, 2020)

Haha! No, I mean I like the musical idea and the drums, honest. I have the same problems you had, maybe you can have a look at my thread, even the Omega sounds terrible here. cu


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 17, 2020)

Korneo said:


> Really ? What's your previous interface and the new one ? Tell us more about the difference please.



I upgraded from a Scarlett Solo to an Audient Sono. 

As for the differences it's kind of hard to compare the two, as the Sono has a built-in preamp. Trying to make a more direct omparison, I used the mic pre on the Sono to compare it to the Solo. First thing I noticed was that the highs seemed richer sounding, like there were more of them. Overall, the signal just sounded clearer, and the freq responses seemed fuller sounding compared to the Solo even when I was a running a good DI box into it.


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## gunch (Mar 19, 2020)

viifox said:


> Here's the same clip, but with the Omega plugin. The only thing i adjusted was the gain. What do you guys think?




Sounds pretty sick to me dude, try a DI box and some different IRs (I have and recommend ownhammer and nadIR)


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## viifox (Mar 19, 2020)

You guys are way too nice!


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 19, 2020)

viifox said:


> You guys are way too nice!



Try Two-Note's Wall of Sound.


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## tender_insanity (Mar 23, 2020)

I replaced my old M-Audio M-Track Eight with the new MOTU M4 and everything seems a lot better.
The preamps for example are much better, less noise and a lot of headroom in there. Drivers seem
good and they've been updated once already after having the interface for less than two weeks now
(three updates since release).

Been enjoying playing/recording again!


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## c7spheres (Mar 23, 2020)

My smartass answer to make amp sims sound better: 
1. Bypass amp sim
2. Reroute bypassed signal through tube amp
3. Mic tube amp's speaker and route it back into daw. 
Amp sim is still in the loop and sounds better.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 24, 2020)

Finally got a chance to record something using the Sono. Just a quickie recording with guitar and drums, but I am happy with the clarity of the guitars. No post production of any kind. Signal was Grind clone> Boss GE-7> MT-2> Sono.
https://soundcloud.com/user-602229297/sono


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