# Good poweramp for Axe-Fx??



## TravisMontgomery (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm getting one of these soon, and was wondering what type of poweramp I should get. I can't spend a whole lot on one, so I was thinking maybe a SS poweramp would work?


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## Minoin (Nov 16, 2008)

My first choice would be a VHT 2502 I guess. But if don't have that much to spend, I'd say a Peavey 50/50.


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## thebhef (Nov 16, 2008)

I would think you'd want a hi-fi amp. You're modeling the power amp with axe-fx, too. No reason to bother with tubes as far as I can imagine. It'll just color your tone more. Same with guitar speakers. PV, QSC and Crown are all pretty good amps. The RMX series from qsc seems pretty solid to me. There are some inexpensive QSCs and PV's on MusiciansFriend.


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## Crucified (Nov 16, 2008)

if you're spending big money of the preamp, don't skimp on the power side. tube power is where it's at.


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## eegor (Nov 16, 2008)

Carvin?


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## Anton (Nov 16, 2008)

Stupid quetion: I'm thinking of getting the Axe Fx aswell, can I just connect it to a cab and that's it? Or I need a power amp?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

if your doing solidstate i'd go with a mackie, if your doing tubes a peavey 50/50 would be fine


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

Anton said:


> Stupid quetion: I'm thinking of getting the Axe Fx aswell, can I just connect it to a cab and that's it? Or I need a power amp?



you have to have a power amp


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## TravisMontgomery (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'll check out Mackie and Carvin power amps. I've read about a lot of people using Carvin with their Axe Fx's, so I'm leaning towards those.


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## Anton (Nov 16, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> you have to have a power amp



Sorry for the newbie question but why do I have to have a poweramp? for the AxeFx or for the cab?
If I have a amp head I dont need the power amp right?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

^ an amp head has a pre amp AND a power amp in the same box, when you buy the axe fx your just getting a pre amp, you have to have a power amp to amplify the signal to the cabinet. you could still plug into the axe and listen through headphones if it has a jack for it but thats all you could do with out the power amp

so yea, if you have an amp head you'll probably have a jack that lets you bypass its preamp and use an outboard pre amp and us the power section of the head


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## march (Nov 16, 2008)

Anton said:


> Stupid quetion: I'm thinking of getting the Axe Fx aswell, can I just connect it to a cab and that's it? Or I need a power amp?



You can go straight from the AxeFx to active speakers, or you can hook it up to either a solid state/tube power amp, through either regular guitar speakers cabinet or FRFR* passive speakers. 

Depending on the setup you will either have to activate the mic modeling and cabinet simulation (in a FRFR setup), or deactivate it (with guitar speakers).

So, afaik:

AxeFx > PA FRFR active speakers
AxeFx > FRFR tube-driven speakers (ex: Traynor K2)
AxeFx > tube power amp > guitar speakers cab
AxeFx > solid state power amp > guitar speakers cab
AxeFx > solid state power amp >passive FRFR PA speakers

* FRFR - Full Range Flat Response. This means the combined amp and speaker system covers the full range of hearing (20Hz to 20KHz) and that the response is flat over this range. Guitar tones only produce sound over a range of about 50HZ to 10KHz.


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## mnemonic (Nov 16, 2008)

if i had an axe fx i would probably go with clean solidstate poweramp. the axe fx models the poweramp as well as the preamp, so i would try to get a poweramp that doesn't color the tone.


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## Anton (Nov 16, 2008)

Ok this is clear,So another question I see for example someone is using a invader 100>axe fx>Cab
Why would some one want 2 preamps(head+axe fx) and is it possible to connecet and use both the same time from the same cab?(or the head power amp is powerfull enough for both)
I confused couse I see people use preamps and heads toghether I want to understand how do they work together and how does it contribute to sound?

Thanks for the explenation  



7 Strings of Hate said:


> ^ an amp head has a pre amp AND a power amp in the same box, when you buy the axe fx your just getting a pre amp, you have to have a power amp to amplify the signal to the cabinet. you could still plug into the axe and listen through headphones if it has a jack for it but thats all you could do with out the power amp
> 
> so yea, if you have an amp head you'll probably have a jack that lets you bypass its preamp and use an outboard pre amp and us the power section of the head


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

^ if you really like the tone of the preamp your head has in it and you want to use of effects(because most amp head pre amps dont have effects in them), then you can plug a pre like the axe fx into your effects loop(or the front of the amp but most people dont care to do that) and just use the axe for effects and get your distortion and clean guitar tones from the actual amp heads' pre amp still.


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## Anton (Nov 16, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> ^ if you really like the tone of the preamp your head has in it and you want to use of effects(because most amp head pre amps dont have effects in them), then you can plug a pre like the axe fx into your effects loop(or the front of the amp but most people dont care to do that) and just use the axe for effects and get your distortion and clean guitar tones from the actual amp heads' pre amp still.



Ok this start to make some sense,If I have a head and a preamp and the heads distortions isnt heavy enough or whatever for me,I can add some heavines and boost to it throw a preamp right?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

basically, OR, if you didnt like your distorted tone out of the head, you could just put your head on its clean channel, put that channels eq flat(12 o'clock) and use the other pre's distortion and just use the power from the head. 
in the situation i just described it would make more sense to sell the head and just buy a power amp.

is that you in your avatar pic? if so your a big mofo man


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## Anton (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah that's me  LOL

Well everything makes sense now,Thanks!
I see that alot of people on the forum use Invaders and axe fx...I thought they use seem both together the same time...and not each separately that's why I had a big mess in my head


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## Shannon (Nov 16, 2008)

For SS amps, check out Carvin. Reasonably priced & tons of clean power. I'm using a DCM1500 power two 2x12 cabs (300w @ 8 ohms per side).


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## TomAwesome (Nov 16, 2008)

I think there has been a little bit of misuse of the word "preamp" here. In a head, the preamp is the part of the amp that shapes the tone (including adding gain) before it's amplified by the power amp and sent to the speakers. A preamp isn't really an effect per se. The Axe-FX isn't a preamp really. It's a multi-fx unit with amp modeling. Of course you can turn off the effects and power amp and cab sims to use it in effect as a preamp, but to refer to the Axe-FX as a preamp is a little misleading. It's more along the lines of a GT-X or a POD, only much better.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 16, 2008)

if they had a splitting hairs emotocon, i'd use it here tom


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## TomAwesome (Nov 17, 2008)

I dunno, I'd consider that to be a pretty big, shaggy, pubey hair.


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## Christopher (Nov 17, 2008)

I started out with a Classic 50/50 with mine. Got a Carvin DCM 600 and sold the Peavey. The 600 was cheaper, lighter, more consistent and sounded better. If I were to go tube, I'd do with a VHT or a Randall RT2/50.


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## sakeido (Nov 17, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> I think there has been a little bit of misuse of the word "preamp" here. In a head, the preamp is the part of the amp that shapes the tone (including adding gain) before it's amplified by the power amp and sent to the speakers. A preamp isn't really an effect per se. The Axe-FX isn't a preamp really. It's a multi-fx unit with amp modeling. Of course you can turn off the effects and power amp and cab sims to use it in effect as a preamp, but to refer to the Axe-FX as a preamp is a little misleading. It's more along the lines of a GT-X or a POD, only much better.



It says right on it that it is a preamp  





It also does everything a preamp does, so it is a preamp and effects processor. Like it says on the box.

To the OP, I'd go with a tube power amp... the Axe's preamp simulations are fantastic, running into the power amp of my Invader it sounds phenomenal, but the power amp sims have an unusual quality about them. I really don't like the cab sims either, so I'd advise against a FRFR setup. 

A VHT 2/50/2 is probably the way to go.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 17, 2008)

Crucified said:


> if you're spending big money of the preamp, don't skimp on the power side. tube power is where it's at.



I'm really close to agreeing with this. I have both a Mesa 50/50 and a QSC GX-3 power amp, the Mesa of course is tube and the QSC is solid state.

I still need to try the QSC in a band environment but what I'm finding so far is that the solid state amp cannot do what tubes do, not at all. While the QSC sounds good it does not have that room filling all enveloping effect that tubes have, it also does not have the feel. No matter how good the AxeFx is, it's only as good as what you run it into.

Even with the coloration of the Mesa poweramp it sounds and feels great, so ultimately it leads me to an ultra clean hifi tube poweramp. The VHT amps seem to be a popular choice for this. How I'm going to snag a VHT? I have no idea.


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## TravisMontgomery (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah, I see what you guys are saying about the tube power amp. I was just going to use my Mesa cab and practice, and at shows I was going to run the Axe through the FOH and use my cab for stage sound.


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## Leec (Nov 17, 2008)

Now, I'm not trying to be flippant, but if this thing really is as good as the hype suggests, why would you want to use anything other than the cleanest of power amps, like a PA system?


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## Zepp88 (Nov 17, 2008)

Leec said:


> Now, I'm not trying to be flippant, but if this thing really is as good as the hype suggests, why would you want to use anything other than the cleanest of power amps, like a PA system?



Good question, and I honestly don't understand it myself. But even a hifi, full range, purely clean, tube power amp will crush a solid state one. At least that's where I'm leaning.


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## Randy (Nov 17, 2008)

Leec said:


> Now, I'm not trying to be flippant, but if this thing really is as good as the hype suggests, why would you want to use anything other than the cleanest of power amps, like a PA system?



Same. However, I've heard from a few different people that actually _DO_ use a solid state, PA-style power amp and swear by it.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yep, some guys love using it that way, but I'm not quite getting it yet.


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## sakeido (Nov 17, 2008)

Leec said:


> Now, I'm not trying to be flippant, but if this thing really is as good as the hype suggests, why would you want to use anything other than the cleanest of power amps, like a PA system?



I have a PA in my house right now. I'll try my Axe out through it tonight, but from what I've done recording direct.. the power amp sims are pretty good. Very effective at shaping the tone and response of your virtual amp. But the cab sims just aren't that great.. I'm kind of disappointed they modeled a power amp properly, but then just use average quality impulses to model the speakers.

I haven't plugged in any Recabinet impulses yet though. That would probably solve my issues with the cab modeling, but at the moment, I wouldn't really be proud of my tone if I was running the Axe cab sims direct in or into a PA system.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 17, 2008)

^^ That's why Cliff included slots for user impulses


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## sakeido (Nov 17, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> ^^ That's why Cliff included slots for user impulses



yeah I know. Recabinet includes Axe FX impulses of the whole library now too.
I just don't get why the stock Axe impulses are kind of crappy


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## Leec (Nov 17, 2008)

I may have phrased that badly. What I mean is, it seems to me that the best choice _would_ be a PA power amp. If the Axe-FX's poweramp and cab sim is as good as is said, I'd have thought a good PA would be all you need.

When the Pod XT's were first out and there was a similar level of hype about them, it seemed everyone was advocating PA amps with them; just going FOH. That didn't last too long and soon everyone was saying you needed a tube power amp to bring out the best.


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## The Trooper (Nov 17, 2008)

Leec said:


> I may have phrased that badly. What I mean is, it seems to me that the best choice _would_ be a PA power amp. If the Axe-FX's poweramp and cab sim is as good as is said, I'd have thought a good PA would be all you need.


 
To approximate the general _sound, _sure that may be the case. The power amp sim will impart the tonal characteristics of the power amp it's emulating just like the preamps. However, it doesn't supply power (stating the obvious, I know). So, you're at the mercy of the power amp that you feed it through. 

What does all that mean? It means that you can run it through a clean, neutral sounding power amp and you'll still get the general _sound_ of running through whatever tube power amp you're emulating...but you won't have the same _feel_ as if you were running through that tube amp. You'll miss the tubes pummeling the speakers, the certian "oomph" that only comes from a tube power section, etc. The sound is there, but the overall feel is not. The only way to nail that down is to turn off your power amp SAG control, yank the cab sim out of your chain, and then pump your signal through an actual tube power amp. 

This is not to be confused with the preamp emulations. They do indeed feel like you're playing through the real deal. But, they're not reliant on power, it's just the signals and series of algorithms passing through to the power amp, much like the actual preamps they emulate. So, you're not missing much if it's modeled in great detail. But, you try to get the same feel and response of an actual tube power amp out of a power amp _model_ into a solid state power amp, and you'll fall short. Like I said, the sound is there but the feel is not. 

That's the reaosn to use a high end tube power amp with your Axe-Fx. If you just care about it sounding accurate and don't care if it feels and reacts exactly the same, more power to you, you've got a cheaper route to take. for me, I prefer a more authentic feel and like that nut-shaking rumble of my cab behind me and that gradual tube break up and feel you only get form the real deal.


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## sakeido (Nov 17, 2008)

Yup that's exactly it. The Axe FX power amp sim is really good, best I've heard, but it is still not perfect. The Axe into the Engl rules way, way harder than the Axe direct does... and with a SS amp, or FRFR, all you are doing is making that direct signal louder, so it wouldn't get any better really.


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## Jack2529 (Nov 19, 2008)

Now,I'm interesting Axe-Fx.
MIDI preset Seen to be enough. Voodoo Lab GCX seen don't need.
Just Have Ground Control Pro Would Be Perfect. With Furman To Collect All Of Power supply.

Here The Question. 
Now I Have Ground Control Pro to gig.
I Want To Hard Spent,So I Plan TO Vht 2902 2/90/2 [This's seen necessary Or Just Grab Vht2502 2/50/2] I Need One Upgrade For Poweramp

Furman Merit Or else What type To gigs all of I Need 1.Axe-Fx 2. poweramp VHT 

3 Things, 1.Axe-Fx 2. poweramp VHT 3. Furman and Ground Control Pro[One I Have]

All Seen enough Or U guys Suggest MOre That I through.

Sorry For Language.

Thx


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## whitewalls1222 (Nov 18, 2010)

sorry for the noobish question.. but is it possible to just run the axe fx through another amps effects loop or something and just use it as a power amp for the axe fx.. if so how would that would exactly? im considering trying this thing out but i wont have the $ for a power amp for a while if i do get one


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## nateb (Nov 18, 2010)

whitewalls1222 said:


> sorry for the noobish question.. but is it possible to just run the axe fx through another amps effects loop or something and just use it as a power amp for the axe fx.. if so how would that would exactly? im considering trying this thing out but i wont have the $ for a power amp for a while if i do get one


Yes, just use the left output, set it up for mono operation and turn off the power and cab sims.


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## Andromalia (Nov 18, 2010)

Leec said:


> Now, I'm not trying to be flippant, but if this thing really is as good as the hype suggests, why would you want to use anything other than the cleanest of power amps, like a PA system?



-Some people already own a cab they like
-Some people alreayd own a poweramp
-You're pretty much guaranteed to find a cab at any venue you play in. Small bands often play without PA in small bars etc.
-Matter of preference, some people are so used to hearing a cab onstage using a FRFR setup is disturbing to them.
-some people enjoy *their* cab, not the one modeled in the axe or available from third parties. (someone direct me to a MF 280 impulse if they find it)

All in all it's a matter of using what works best for you. I do for exemple get an awesome live tone out of the axe fx but can't for the life of me pinpoint what's wrong with my direct recording tones for now, if I had to do a recording *now* I'd use the axe+2:50+cab ->mike way. Sound engineering is not on the list of what I've studied takes time, time I do not necessarily have as a 37 year old employee working full time with other hobbies than musing claiming their alloted time on my planning too. ^^
People with the proficiency have done it though, so it's nothing wrong with the fractal.


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## Rick (Nov 19, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> -Some people already own a cab they like
> -Some people alreayd own a poweramp
> -You're pretty much guaranteed to find a cab at any venue you play in. Small bands often play without PA in small bars etc.
> -Matter of preference, some people are so used to hearing a cab onstage using a FRFR setup is disturbing to them.
> ...



You do realize that question was asked 2 years ago, right?


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